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Lin-Manuel Miranda's SAT Score
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Screenshot 2016-10-22 23.42.20

One of the ironies of the conventional wisdom is that standardized testing is supposed to be biased against minorities, and yet white liberals tend to go nuts for the occasional Non-Asian Minority who has what it takes to score high on standardized tests.

For example, President Obama probably did score quite well on the LSAT.

Similarly, Lin-Manuel Miranda, the lyricist / composer / star of the smash Broadway musical Hamilton, about how the plutocratic Founding Father was, viewed from the proper perspective, an honorary nonwhite, scored three standard deviations above the Puerto Rican-American mean on the verbal portions of the SAT: 760, which is excellent. (As his witty hashtag notes, his 500 math score wasn’t as outstanding. I hope he has an honest accountant.)

Since Miranda took the SAT in the late 1990s (after SAT verbal scoring was made easier in 1995), the Verbal portion of the test has been split up among Critical Reading and Writing scores. From the College Board in 2013:

Screenshot 2016-10-22 23.46.59

Miranda’s late 1990s verbal score of 760 would be 309.5 points higher than the average of the scores of 2013 Puerto Ricans (in America, not Puerto Rico) on Critical Reading (456) and Writing (445). The average of the standard deviations would be 102.5, or very close to 3 standard deviations.

That would put Miranda around the 99.7th percentile of Puerto Rican-Americans in verbal skills, which sounds about right. It’s not just that Miranda is verbally creative, but also that he enjoys reading high-brow source material.

Miranda based his musical on Ron Chernow’s massive 2004 biography of Alexander Hamilton, which he took along on vacation for some beach reading. I wouldn’t be surprised if the composer and his father, a prominent NYC centrist Democratic political consultant, comprised a sizable percentage of all Puerto Ricans who viewed the latest Ron Chernow financier biography as beach reading.

But that’s not the point. The point is that if the residents of the Upper East Side turn out en masse at vast expense for Hamilton, that will conjure into existence lots more Puerto Ricans with 760 Verbal SAT scores and an appropriate appreciation for plutocracy.

 
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  1. We must assume that his scores have been remembered and reported accurately in that tweet. A high verbal makes for a good story in his case, as does a big split with the math.

    • Replies: @Questionator
    @Questionator

    I'd wager that those weren't the precise numbers. (Though I'm not saying he is deliberately lying.)

    Replies: @Gringo

    , @SFG
    @Questionator

    Oh yeah. These literati guys resent people who are good at math. I guess, since most of them are connected, they figure if they'd been good at math they'd be at Google and Apple and famous *and* rich. (Lin-Manuel of course is both now that he's got a successful musical, but he knows his audience.)

    If you want an interesting HBD angle this does suggest Hispanics have a higher 'right tail' than blacks due to the heavy European admixture...Argentines are pretty pale (as they love to tell you), and Uruguayans even more so. I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties... "Hey, you can come to America, get affirmative action, and the cops will never bug you!"

    Replies: @Psmith, @james wilson, @Gringo

    , @Taco
    @Questionator

    I remember my exact SAT scores (each section as well as my total score). Maybe that's because I did pretty well (better than Miranda both in verbal and overall).

    Maybe people who get 98th percentile plus scores remember them? I'd imagine if my principal had called me into the office to tell me I had the highest Puerto Rican score in the history of the school i'd be even more inclined to remember my exact score.

    , @Olorin
    @Questionator

    I have always found the configuration and distribution of this sort of split more interesting than the scores themselves.

    Someone scoring 760 math and 500 verbal would be considered a sort of autistic savant. Good for counting and measuring things, but not really a human worth paying attention to, being lesser able to translate thoughts into something other humans could relate to.

    In this case we likely have a highly verbally facile person...without much of interest to say on any substantive topic, since 500 math indicates a pedestrian, non-analytical factual mind.

    This is precisely the sort of person for whom the Grievance Cathedragogue was invented. They can bash on about whatever victimization meme is au courant...its facts never need be vetted...and the more they talk, the more notice they get. Particularly as they are peddled to an even less verbally facile mass of audience members (who are also quant idiots).

    This is a very Jewish form of intelligence judging from the various places I've observed it up close and daily. It always struck me as highly talmudic--lots of commentary on very little text, very little fact whatever behind the text, and zero process for adjudicating the latter and erasing falsehoods from the text, never mind the commentary.

  2. I find it ironic that Chernow’s book is helping to unite the Party of the Power Structure, as you name it. (Which I’d like to say comprises members of the Republican Party as well, like the aptly named War Party, or the old progressive movement.) Because Chernow also wrote biographies of Rockefeller and Morgan heavily cited by revisionist and conspiracy theory books I’ve read.

    Facts is facts, I guess, and we can take what we like from honest (or honest enough) historians to prove our cases. But normally there’s not a lot of overlap between court historians and revisionists. I can’t imagine the banksters being happy that someone of Chernow’s stature wrote openly about the Rockefeller and Morgan cartels/political machines.

    I also can’t imagine, for instance, a David Irving book being made into a Broadway musical raved about by the ruling class.

  3. @Questionator
    We must assume that his scores have been remembered and reported accurately in that tweet. A high verbal makes for a good story in his case, as does a big split with the math.

    Replies: @Questionator, @SFG, @Taco, @Olorin

    I’d wager that those weren’t the precise numbers. (Though I’m not saying he is deliberately lying.)

    • Replies: @Gringo
    @Questionator

    I’d wager that those weren’t the precise numbers. (Though I’m not saying he is deliberately lying.)

    Perhaps you are talking about rounding off. When I took the SAT many years ago, my scores ended in a 5 and a 2. When I took the GRE decades later on two occasions, my scores ended with zeroes. Perhaps SAT scores are now rounded off the way the GRE scores appeared to be when I took the GRE.

    Replies: @James Kabala, @Stan Adams

  4. By the way, of you’re looking for a different take on Hamilton, you can read Thomas DiLorenzo’s “Hamilton’s Curse,” which is slight and libertarian, but a quick read.

    I also enjoyed William Graham Summer’s book on Hamilton. He of “forgotten man” (referenced by Trump yesterday) and “The Conquest of the United States by Spain” fame.

  5. “For example, President Obama probably did score quite well on the LSAT.”

    Based on what?

    • Replies: @JimB
    @Realist

    Based on Steve's generally optimistic outlook of Obama's abilities. It makes more sense that Obama scored approximately average or lower in the Occidental student body. As a white person he might have been admitted to Fordham or Seton Hall law school. And in either of those schools, with their emphasis on practical law training, he would have been lucky to graduate in the middle of his class.

    Replies: @Realist

    , @James B. Shearer
    @Realist

    Sailer discusses Obama's LSAT score here .

  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    after SAT verbal scoring was made easier in 1995

    That still doesn’t convey the whole nature of the changes.
    What is progressively eliminated from the SAT by progressives is the demand for intelligence, progressively replaced by more let’s-see-if-you-studied-hard items, in order to achieve progress.

    That is, to remove racial biases…

  7. 760 would be the 99.7 percentile of PRs who took the SAT, but well higher among all PRs, well above the 99.9 percentile.

  8. The “Hamilton” phenomenon is a confluence of Narrative cliches and magical thinking, a weird combination of historical ret-conning, sympathetic magic and cargo cultism seeking to turn reality on its head–that reality being that hip hop culture, black culture now, is actually among the least amenable things to democracy there are. But liberals are already so stupefied they actually seem to think that the mere fact the words of the founders can be rapped means black people are natural democrats.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Dennis Dale

    That is a most generous assessment. I applaud your willingness to view our 'opponents' through rose colored glasses. And of course you mean natural Democrats, no? Because democrats and Democrats don't have that much in common.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale

  9. So someone who scored exceptionally on the verbal SAT went on to become a celebrated playwright. But SAT scores are unpredicitve.

  10. Such a yuge disparity between scores is kind of rare. I too question whether it’s authentic (an almost perfect Verbal and an exactly average Quantitative sounds like it has a higher than random chance of being a made up score). Interesting if true, however.

    Of course, after sex, SAT scores are probably the most lied about topic.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @sprfls

    My younger daughter got an 800 verbal 500 math on her SAT.

    , @EH
    @sprfls

    760 is a possible score, it means one question missed. If one question skipped, then the score is 780. (Pre-1995 at least. In the past couple of years they eliminated the penalty for guessing.) Big discrepancies between math and verbal are not at all unusual, the correlation in the upper score range is low. 260 points is unusually large, though.

    Pre-1995 verbal scores reflect a much more difficult and accurate test. In 1988 a 760V was top 1 in 2,500. Seven people got a 1600 that year, IIRC, or about 1 in 140,000. Now a 1600 M+CR is about 1 in 1400.

    , @gregor
    @sprfls

    It seems more common than it actually is because people often talk as though math and verbal intelligence were negatively correlated. This is probably because among a restricted sample (say, people scoring 1400+) there will actually be a negative relationship, but overall without such sorting the two have about a 70% positive correlation.

    Given a 760 verbal, the conditional mean of the math score would be about 690 (about 30% back toward the mean). Based on the parameters Steve gives, the difference, Verbal minus Math, would have mean= negative 18 and SD = ~90. Counting both tails,

    100+ gap, 19.1%
    150+ gap, 6.3%
    200+ gap, 1.6%

    A 260+point gap would be about 1 in 482.

    Of course, this is all assuming bivariate normal, and it might be the correlation breaks down somewhat in the tails.

  11. One of the ironies of the conventional wisdom is that standardized testing is supposed to be biased against minorities, and yet white liberals tend to go nuts for the occasional Non-Asian Minority who has what it takes to score high on standardized tests.

    Well now this is a bit of cheating, I think. Miranda isn’t celebrated because he did well on the verbal portion of his SAT. He’s celebrated because he’s written several hit Broadway musicals, particularly “Hamilton.” Of course that means he “has what it takes” to score well(ish) on the standardized tests, but that’s not the point.

    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Miranda’s self-reported scores are accurate. They represent the scores of a guy who’s able to write rap lyrics at a very high level combined with the math scores of someone who probably isn’t too anal or particular about, ya know, sticking to the facts.

  12. Miranda, to me , is a footnote in his own post.

    More importantly…there were 1/4th as many Asians (perhaps 6% of the population) who took the tests as there were whites? Whites are now barely just half of the people who took the SAT – not half of the high school juniors in the country, but half of the high school juniors who took the SAT, which means they are almost certainly less than half of all high school juniors.

    I suppose that may come with a few caveats. First is that my vague recollection is that the ACT is/was the preferred test in the whiter states of the country, so that may skew things just a little since many people won’t take the SAT if their preferred college prefers and/or requires the ACT. The other is to wonder if the numbers represent individual students or the total number of tests taken.

  13. What we really need to know is how much other Puerto Ricans paid for their tickets.

  14. You should read up on the Platinum hedge fund fiasco in NY. A tight knit group of Orthodox got together to do a poor man’s Madoff and AIG, got caught paying off the black head of the Riker’s jail guard union with 30k in a designer bag to keep the Ponzi scheme going.

    The NY political class is in it up to their necks.

    BTW, who is the best pitcher in the NL now?

    • Replies: @Moshe
    @Hodag

    I know I have to many stories to sound believable but despite having been astoundingly unsuccessful at finding two nickels to rub together I do, fortunately, have a rather beautiful and fascinating life.

    Point is, I had dinner with Murray Huberfeld in his home.

    I've since had the experience of mingling with other multi millionaires but Murray was the first and the experience was an eye opener.

    Like all people, the super rich are clanish and (again, like all people) they take their own seriously and tend to view others as outsiders.

    I assume people would be interested in some insights into the man and his thinking but I'm typing by phone so I'd rather just share what was most interesting to me at the time.

    The first interesting thing was how, due to his choice real estate and garden, he had a couple of months a year where the area outside from his entry gate to his front door was saturated with tiny flying things. That made me happy. He might be as rich as Solomon but he had to put up with walking through a hundred meters of fleas everyday and I did not! :)

    But that's where the downside to his residence ended.

    Incredibly expensive paintings hung on the wall including, if I remember correctly, and original Picasso.

    Beyond that there was some talk of his scouting out some airplane manufacturing company, I don't recall weather it was to buy a plane or to buy hey steak in the company.

    He and the other wealthy guest also swapped sob stories about how occasionally their Federal Expressed didn't get to their overseas resorts until an hour after they'd arrived.

    Then there was the 24 karat gold salt and pepper shakers at each setting, yada yada yada.

    I get where some might be envious of him if that's your thing, but, aside for the fact that apparently he's in some trouble now (something I didn't know until I just read the comment that I'm responding to) it's worth realizing that a quarter of the planet's inhabitants have far more reason to be envious of your spendthrift lifestyle than you have to be envious of his - relatively - modest one.

    Its all relative.

    Anyhow, the news is interesting. As someone displeased with the aristocracy I feel some pleasure when they get caught and punished but, as someone who was posted at his home, obviously I wish him well.

    I also have more to say about certain things on the general subject but, no matter what stories I share here, on facebook or in person, a good 50% of the very interesting facets of my life are never shared including, an additional wild story I have to share on this subject. Wish I could.

  15. @Questionator
    @Questionator

    I'd wager that those weren't the precise numbers. (Though I'm not saying he is deliberately lying.)

    Replies: @Gringo

    I’d wager that those weren’t the precise numbers. (Though I’m not saying he is deliberately lying.)

    Perhaps you are talking about rounding off. When I took the SAT many years ago, my scores ended in a 5 and a 2. When I took the GRE decades later on two occasions, my scores ended with zeroes. Perhaps SAT scores are now rounded off the way the GRE scores appeared to be when I took the GRE.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
    @Gringo

    All SAT scores end in zeroes and have for a long time. (Sorry if that makes you feel old.) I think it even predates the mid-1990s recentering, but certainly no later than that.

    , @Stan Adams
    @Gringo

    It seems that they began rounding the scores to the nearest zero in the early '70s.

  16. @Questionator
    We must assume that his scores have been remembered and reported accurately in that tweet. A high verbal makes for a good story in his case, as does a big split with the math.

    Replies: @Questionator, @SFG, @Taco, @Olorin

    Oh yeah. These literati guys resent people who are good at math. I guess, since most of them are connected, they figure if they’d been good at math they’d be at Google and Apple and famous *and* rich. (Lin-Manuel of course is both now that he’s got a successful musical, but he knows his audience.)

    If you want an interesting HBD angle this does suggest Hispanics have a higher ‘right tail’ than blacks due to the heavy European admixture…Argentines are pretty pale (as they love to tell you), and Uruguayans even more so. I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties… “Hey, you can come to America, get affirmative action, and the cops will never bug you!”

    • Replies: @Psmith
    @SFG

    There were a ton of white South Americans--I mean, really white, they mostly just looked like Northern Italians-- in my undergrad's econ department.

    , @james wilson
    @SFG

    "Argentines are pretty pale (as they love to tell you), and Uruguayans even more so. I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties"

    The Argentinian IQ average is curiously low, a real outlier. Maybe they bred with peacocks, which they emulate.

    , @Gringo
    @SFG

    I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties… “Hey, you can come to America, get affirmative action, and the cops will never bug you!”

    Several decades ago I took a Math course taught by a postdoc. By her surname, I assumed she was Middle Eastern. Her lectures were well done. One day I when I was in her office, she answered the phone and proceeded to speak Spanish in a Porteño (Buenos Aires) accent. I correctly concluded that she was one of the Turcos- what Argentines call people whose ancestors emigrated from the Ottoman Empire from what are now Lebanon or Syria. I worked with Turcos on rigs in Argentina.

    I very much doubt that she needed much in the way of affirmative action help. She is teaching at a flagship state university, has published a lot, and advised a respectable number of students who have completed their doctorates.

  17. @SFG
    @Questionator

    Oh yeah. These literati guys resent people who are good at math. I guess, since most of them are connected, they figure if they'd been good at math they'd be at Google and Apple and famous *and* rich. (Lin-Manuel of course is both now that he's got a successful musical, but he knows his audience.)

    If you want an interesting HBD angle this does suggest Hispanics have a higher 'right tail' than blacks due to the heavy European admixture...Argentines are pretty pale (as they love to tell you), and Uruguayans even more so. I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties... "Hey, you can come to America, get affirmative action, and the cops will never bug you!"

    Replies: @Psmith, @james wilson, @Gringo

    There were a ton of white South Americans–I mean, really white, they mostly just looked like Northern Italians– in my undergrad’s econ department.

  18. You can’t read too much into these standardized tests without looking at whom they are normed against. I was in my mid forties when I took the GRE graduate school examination and scored 800 on verbal, 720 on problem solving, and 700 on math.

    However the verbal score will have been normed against kids of about 21 with no particular interest in the English language or in writing, some of whom will have English as their second language, so 800 was nothing special. The 700 on the math would have been 800 had I known to look at a test prep book to see what type of problems they were setting and understand the lingo. The math test was actually a greater test of English comprehension than the English test and involved little mathematical calculation.

    Anyone who had majored in any kind math-related subject would almost automatically score 800 on the math.

    I would say that any reasonably intelligent person who was interested in literature or writing would also almost automatically score 800 on the verbal English section, because the test was not aimed at them. For a Puerto Rican, for whom English is a second language, a score close to 800 is pretty damn good.

    My step daughter is 8 and in 3rd grade and her public school teacher recently told us that she was reading at kindergarten level according to the school’s testing. However I pointed out to her that English is her second language, that she had so far only been in school in the US for 7 weeks, and that if you tested her reading in Spanish, she would do better since many English words are not spelled logically.

    She also has problems with math, because third grade students are apparently supposed to understand terms like “commutative properties” before they can follow the homework instructions for exercises to learn the 3x table.

    Just some of the problems of the “one size fits all” method of education.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Jonathan Mason


    However the verbal score will have been normed against kids of about 21 with no particular interest in the English language or in writing, some of whom will have English as their second language, so 800 was nothing special.
     

    I would say that any reasonably intelligent person who was interested in literature or writing would also almost automatically score 800 on the verbal English section,
     
    I have a phd in English Lit. No one in my cohort in grad school had an 800 on the GRE verbal.

    Replies: @Anon, @The Last Real Calvinist

    , @The Inscrutable Chinaman
    @Jonathan Mason

    An 800 verbal is exceptional any way you cut it. Anything above 700 is very good and above 750 is great.

  19. @Realist
    "For example, President Obama probably did score quite well on the LSAT."

    Based on what?

    Replies: @JimB, @James B. Shearer

    Based on Steve’s generally optimistic outlook of Obama’s abilities. It makes more sense that Obama scored approximately average or lower in the Occidental student body. As a white person he might have been admitted to Fordham or Seton Hall law school. And in either of those schools, with their emphasis on practical law training, he would have been lucky to graduate in the middle of his class.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @JimB

    "Alan R. Lockwood claims that Barack Obama, while brilliant, may have entered Harvard Law School in the bottom 20% of his class, based on mediocre college grades--and high Law School Admission Test (LSAT) scores."

    ...while brilliant.... What the hell does that mean? It is not known to the public what Obama's academic scores were or his IQ it is all conjecture.

    Here is some more conjecture for you. Obama probably was excepted to Harvard and elected President because he is black.

  20. I did 760 verbal, 720 math in 1981. That was the highest verbal and combined score at Choate, my high school for my last 2 years. I’d started at Montclair High in NJ. But I had already taken the ssat and psat, plus I took some practice tests from a booklet. No special classes though. And I originally got 540 math but retook the test. Only the highest of each score gets reported to colleges.

    I was a good tester but a lazy student. Cs mostly. I got wait listed at UPenn and ended up at UNC-Chapel Hill.

    My roommate there was from Lenoir, NC. He got 800s across the board on his GSE’s. Went to the Kennedy School. Ended up at the Fed then UBS as chief risk officer, now at a spinoff for their hard to value assets. We are godparents to each other’s kids. More fortunately for my kids than his.

    He’s very smart. Very well read. But I know well read very smart people who dropped out of state schools. I haven’t taken an IQ test that I recall. But I doubt I’d be that high. I’d guess around 125.

    • Replies: @artichoke
    @Hhsiii

    The SAT pre-1995 is considered about the most reliable IQ test used by high-IQ societies. It's not designed exactly as an IQ test, but it's got good test security and you don't get to retake it lots of times with different psychologists that may reward your payment with a high score that can be used to get into the IQ society. Not casting shade on psychs, but this is rumored to happen. Anyway the SAT is less imperfect than most other tests including specific IQ tests.

    And your score equates to more like 145 (at least) not 125 on an IQ scale with standard deviation of 15. You may not feel so special but here's a secret. IQ percentiles are calculated assuming a Gaussian distribution of scores, but actually the distribution has quite fat tails.

    Replies: @hhsiii

  21. It’s all fairly silly anyway. Using the term Puerto Rican is similar to saying someone is Hispanic. It has no genetic component. What does some genetically Spanish guy scoring reasonably well on the SAT have to do with others from that island that are heavily African or Native American or both.

    It’s like when baseball watchers lament the decline of African Americans in the sport without noticing that many of the Hispanic/Caribbean players are heavily African in ancestry.

    We live in very silly times. Makes you wonder how long it can last. Five or ten years ago, I would have laid huge odds that the silliness would outlast me, but now I’m beginning to wonder. Things seem to be accelerating.

  22. @Realist
    "For example, President Obama probably did score quite well on the LSAT."

    Based on what?

    Replies: @JimB, @James B. Shearer

    Sailer discusses Obama’s LSAT score here .

  23. Thanks to Edward James Olmos in the movie Stand And Deliver, we know that Miranda’s poor math score was due to his crappy teachers, since Hispanic people have an innate capacity for calculus if not other higher maths.

    (Unsurprisingly, the reality on which the movie is based is quite different; only the very small number of carefully selected students who had the requisite years of solid math prep actually passed the test.)

    Also, grumpy majority Americans who doubt that all Hispanic people are capable of achieving great things should know that Miranda was just an average student in high school. Imagine what’s possible for immigrants!

    (Again, unpleasant non-PC reality intrudes. Miranda went to Hunter High School in NYC which accepts only students in the top 1/4 of one percent.)

  24. It’s not just that Miranda is verbally creative, but also that he enjoys reading high-brow source material.

    There is no doubt, then, that he is a dedicated reader of The Unz Review, “a Trump-friendly, highbrow online journal with a devoted following,” according to The American Interest.

    Yeah, right.

  25. What’s interesting is his MATH SAT score. Miranda went to Wesleyan. At Wesleyan the average math sat score is 705 and the 25th percentile score is 660 (so we can infer 615 for the 0th percentile in math). He probably had the lowest math SAT of any Wesleyan student. Being Puerto Rican AND the son of a well connected Democrat party operative must have gotten him in. If he was non-Latino white or Asian, they would have flung his application in the reject pile so fast that his head would have spun.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Jack D

    I don't know what the SAT score profile of the incoming class in fall 1998 was, Miranda's year, but here are the numbers Wesleyan provides today:


    SAT Math scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    780 — 75th percentile
    740 — median
    700 — 25th percentile

    SAT Verbal (CR) scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    770 — 75th percentile
    740 — median
    700 — 25th percentile
     
    The estimate that he was the lowest Math SAT of any admitted Wesleyan student in his class is likely, if he is remembering that 500 Math correctly. (Statistically likely; racial affirmative action may skew this.)
    , @Alan Mercer
    @Jack D

    Your essential point is correct, but the math is a little off. If the scores are normally distributed with median 705 and 25th percentile 660, the standard deviation is 67. That makes 615 the 9th percentile and 550 the 1st percentile.

    , @res
    @Jack D

    Overall I strongly agree with your points, but I'm not sure about this one: "25th percentile score is 660 (so we can infer 615 for the 0th percentile in math)"
    In these days of affirmative action (and it was similar in Miranda's day) I would not be surprised to find single digit percent of surprisingly low math scores (e.g. less than 615,). But the public is unlikely to ever see numbers like that so it's just guesswork unless you know someone in admissions. Knowing the median score (relative to the average) would help assess the skew of the distribution.

    I also saw different numbers for Wesleyan's 25-75% range (not sure of your source, but Miranda was there >15 years ago (but after 1995) so current data may not be a good guide):
    630-740 at http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=205
    630 - 740 at http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/1023852/college/wesleyan-university

    Note that this site says 6% of freshman have a GPA <= 3.25
    http://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/connecticut/wesleyan-university/admission/
    (giving an idea of how a long tail at the low end is common, I tend to believe this is due to affirmative action, but there may be other contributors like big donors, athletes, or legacies)

    P.S. For some more details see http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/apply/classprofile.html
    37% of those admitted for the class of 2020 then accepted. The median SAT Math was 20 points higher for admits than for students (740 vs 720).

  26. “Miranda went to Wesleyan”

    Or, as people affiliated with the university call it, “there’s no Z in WeSSleyan!”

  27. Who are (is?) the Buffers to whom he refers in his tweet?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Glossy

    Still Buffering are a couple of teen sisters with an advice column.

    Replies: @Triumph104

  28. From the 1997 SAT score report (pdf) (from pages marked 6, 7 and 9 in the document)

    _____________________

    SAT I Verbal (Negligible Gender Gap)

    760 : Lin-Manuel Miranda (b. 1980)’s self-reported SAT Verbal Score.

    Overall, All Races, 1.02 million test takers
    505 mean
    111 standard deviation
    98.9%-th percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (+2.30 SD)

    White, 694,000 test takers (presumably “non-Hispanic”)
    526 mean
    101 standard deviation
    99.0% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (+2.32 SD) (Note: This is slightly higher than ‘All Races’ because ‘Other’ and ‘NoResponse’ had high means and especially high SDs.)

    Hispanic 86,000 test takers
    457 mean
    105 standard deviation
    +99.8% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (+2.89 SD)

    Puerto Rican 13,000 test takers
    454 mean
    104 standard deviation
    +99.8% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (+2.94 SD)

    Students with one or two Parents with Graduate Degree, 255,000 (25% of test takers)
    556 mean
    107 standard deviation
    +97.2% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (+1.91 SD)

    _________________

    SAT I Math (a significant Gender Gap; comparing scores for males only)

    500 : Lin-Manuel Miranda (b. 1980)’s self-reported SAT Math Score.

    Overall, All Races, Males, 461,000 test takers
    530 mean
    114 standard deviation
    39.7% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (-0.26 SD)

    White Males, 317,000 test takers
    545 mean
    105 standard deviation
    33.4% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (-0.43 SD)

    Hispanic Males 37,000 test takers
    482 mean
    106 standard deviation
    56.8% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (+0.17 SD)

    Puerto Rican Males 5,600 test takers
    469 mean
    108 standard deviation
    61.4% percentile: Miranda’s self-reported score within this group (+0.29 SD)

    Male Students with one or two Parents with Graduate Degree
    This data is not provided by College Board, but we can attempt an estimation as follows: The ‘Child of Graduate Degree holder’ Male and Female combined Math mean of 560 (108 SD) beats the Overall Math mean (511) by fifty points. A +50 point gain in Math for ‘Child of Grad Degree Holder’ male test takers, too, this would imply a 580 mean f or that subcategory; keeping the 108 standard deviation, we get: -0.74 SD (23rd percentile) as very likely to be close to how Miranda’s score stacks up within the “Male Child of Graduate Degree Holder” range.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Hail

    Miranda graduated from Wesleyan University.

    Within its admitted students' SAT score ranges (link), Miranda's is comfortably in the upper half of the class in Verbal, but rock bottom in Math, -4 SD! (way down in the first percentile), if his self-reported score of 500 Math is correct.

    SAT Math scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    780 -- 75th percentile
    740 -- median
    700 -- 25th percentile

    SAT Verbal (CR) scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    770 -- 75th percentile
    740 -- median
    700 -- 25th percentile

    They claim 10% Hispanic enrollment in the 2010s. No word what it was in the late 1990s and early 2000s when Miranda attended.

  29. @Questionator
    We must assume that his scores have been remembered and reported accurately in that tweet. A high verbal makes for a good story in his case, as does a big split with the math.

    Replies: @Questionator, @SFG, @Taco, @Olorin

    I remember my exact SAT scores (each section as well as my total score). Maybe that’s because I did pretty well (better than Miranda both in verbal and overall).

    Maybe people who get 98th percentile plus scores remember them? I’d imagine if my principal had called me into the office to tell me I had the highest Puerto Rican score in the history of the school i’d be even more inclined to remember my exact score.

  30. @Hail
    From the 1997 SAT score report (pdf) (from pages marked 6, 7 and 9 in the document)

    _____________________

    SAT I Verbal (Negligible Gender Gap)

    760 : Lin-Manuel Miranda (b. 1980)'s self-reported SAT Verbal Score.

    Overall, All Races, 1.02 million test takers
    505 mean
    111 standard deviation
    98.9%-th percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (+2.30 SD)

    White, 694,000 test takers (presumably "non-Hispanic")
    526 mean
    101 standard deviation
    99.0% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (+2.32 SD) (Note: This is slightly higher than 'All Races' because 'Other' and 'NoResponse' had high means and especially high SDs.)

    Hispanic 86,000 test takers
    457 mean
    105 standard deviation
    +99.8% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (+2.89 SD)

    Puerto Rican 13,000 test takers
    454 mean
    104 standard deviation
    +99.8% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (+2.94 SD)

    Students with one or two Parents with Graduate Degree, 255,000 (25% of test takers)
    556 mean
    107 standard deviation
    +97.2% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (+1.91 SD)

    _________________

    SAT I Math (a significant Gender Gap; comparing scores for males only)

    500 : Lin-Manuel Miranda (b. 1980)'s self-reported SAT Math Score.

    Overall, All Races, Males, 461,000 test takers
    530 mean
    114 standard deviation
    39.7% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (-0.26 SD)

    White Males, 317,000 test takers
    545 mean
    105 standard deviation
    33.4% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (-0.43 SD)

    Hispanic Males 37,000 test takers
    482 mean
    106 standard deviation
    56.8% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (+0.17 SD)

    Puerto Rican Males 5,600 test takers
    469 mean
    108 standard deviation
    61.4% percentile: Miranda's self-reported score within this group (+0.29 SD)

    Male Students with one or two Parents with Graduate Degree
    This data is not provided by College Board, but we can attempt an estimation as follows: The 'Child of Graduate Degree holder' Male and Female combined Math mean of 560 (108 SD) beats the Overall Math mean (511) by fifty points. A +50 point gain in Math for 'Child of Grad Degree Holder' male test takers, too, this would imply a 580 mean f or that subcategory; keeping the 108 standard deviation, we get: -0.74 SD (23rd percentile) as very likely to be close to how Miranda's score stacks up within the "Male Child of Graduate Degree Holder" range.

    Replies: @Hail

    Miranda graduated from Wesleyan University.

    Within its admitted students’ SAT score ranges (link), Miranda’s is comfortably in the upper half of the class in Verbal, but rock bottom in Math, -4 SD! (way down in the first percentile), if his self-reported score of 500 Math is correct.

    SAT Math scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    780 — 75th percentile
    740 — median
    700 — 25th percentile

    SAT Verbal (CR) scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    770 — 75th percentile
    740 — median
    700 — 25th percentile

    They claim 10% Hispanic enrollment in the 2010s. No word what it was in the late 1990s and early 2000s when Miranda attended.

  31. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Michael Wilbon, the black Washington Post sports columnist who along with fellow Post sports columnist Tony Kornheiser hosts a popular sports show on ESPN, spoke at my high school. I can’t remember what the occasion was, but in his talk, he recounted how he scored high on the SAT verbal – it was something in the 700s, I can’t remember the exact score – but that his overall score didn’t break 1000. He didn’t say what he scored on the math section, just that he scored something in the 700s on verbal and didn’t break 1000 overall, which would mean a very low math score. Of course, it’s impossible to tell if this is true, or if he even remembers correctly, or if he was just exaggerating for effect.

    I haven’t read his column in a decade, and have only caught glimpses of his TV appearances, but if I remember correctly, he is fairly articulate and well spoken, especially compared to most black commentators.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Anonymous

    700 Verbal
    300 Math

    Implies a math ability at the first percentile, i.e. a Math IQ at the level of a mentally-impaired person. Not plausible at all. Not believable.

    Maybe he meant "didn't break out of the 1000s"? i.e. 700 Verbal 390 Math = 1090. Still seems way too low and not plausible.

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Anonymous

  32. A 760 verbal/500 math guy becoming a millionaire Broadway playwrite seems to be a pretty good example of the iSteve-ish concept of becoming successful by playing to your strengths v. attempting to shore-up your weaknesses.

    On the other hand, I wonder how many times he took the test, and whether he availed himself of any test prep (did Kaplan, etc. exist then?)

    On the third hand, you could argue prep-pounding and maxing attempts, say to achieve an astronomical verbal score to wow yourself into a good college, is an example of the same “focus on making your strengths stronger”.

  33. Lin-Manuel Miranda attended Hunter College Elementary School and Hunter College High School, gifted schools for the top quarter of one percent. There are only two entry points, kindergarten or seventh grade. Since Miranda entered in kindergarten, he was admitted on his strong verbal and social skills, no math.

    In recent years the average SAT score for HCHS has been approximately 2200, or about 1470 on the 1600 scale. At least a fourth of the students go on the Ivy League every year, but Miranda’s math SAT score was too low, so he attended Wesleyen. I don’t know who “The Buffers” is or why Miranda was surpised/excited about an SAT score in the 1400s. I did a quick search for Warren Buffett’s SAT score but came up empty. I think Miranda was just humble bragging about his own score (verbal).

    Notable graduates from HCHS include Elena Kagan (Supreme Court Justice), Ron Brown (Secretary of State), H. David Politzer (Nobel Prize in Physics), and rapper Young MC. LINK LINK

  34. I haven’t seen Hamilton but its reviews led me to read Chernow’s biography which I highly recommend.

    Hamilton was an absolutely prodigious worker.

    A great executive.

    And all that writing– the Federalists– done manually!

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @JamesG


    I haven’t seen Hamilton but its reviews led me to read Chernow’s biography which I highly recommend.

    Hamilton was an absolutely prodigious worker.

    A great executive.

    And all that writing– the Federalists– done manually!
     
    Hamilton was a very impressive guy. I think that it was Brookhiser who said that Hamilton probably had the highest IQ of the Founders, with Jefferson ranking tops in learning.
  35. @Glossy
    Who are (is?) the Buffers to whom he refers in his tweet?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Still Buffering are a couple of teen sisters with an advice column.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @Steve Sailer

    There isn't much information on the show. One article said the sisters typed "Go" on their Facebook page to see how many likes they would get. Vapid teen girl stuff.

    The sisters are from Huntington, WV. Syndee Smirl McElroy is a 2009 graduate of Marshall University's school of medicine and she practices family medicine. In 2007 Taylor Smirl was a graduate of The School of Visual Arts in New York City and working on a graphic novel. Their sister Rileigh is in high school and recently joined the show.

  36. I think I scored a 981 combined in 1984! (thought it was funny, and still do.)

  37. @Jonathan Mason
    You can't read too much into these standardized tests without looking at whom they are normed against. I was in my mid forties when I took the GRE graduate school examination and scored 800 on verbal, 720 on problem solving, and 700 on math.

    However the verbal score will have been normed against kids of about 21 with no particular interest in the English language or in writing, some of whom will have English as their second language, so 800 was nothing special. The 700 on the math would have been 800 had I known to look at a test prep book to see what type of problems they were setting and understand the lingo. The math test was actually a greater test of English comprehension than the English test and involved little mathematical calculation.

    Anyone who had majored in any kind math-related subject would almost automatically score 800 on the math.

    I would say that any reasonably intelligent person who was interested in literature or writing would also almost automatically score 800 on the verbal English section, because the test was not aimed at them. For a Puerto Rican, for whom English is a second language, a score close to 800 is pretty damn good.

    My step daughter is 8 and in 3rd grade and her public school teacher recently told us that she was reading at kindergarten level according to the school's testing. However I pointed out to her that English is her second language, that she had so far only been in school in the US for 7 weeks, and that if you tested her reading in Spanish, she would do better since many English words are not spelled logically.

    She also has problems with math, because third grade students are apparently supposed to understand terms like "commutative properties" before they can follow the homework instructions for exercises to learn the 3x table.

    Just some of the problems of the "one size fits all" method of education.

    Replies: @syonredux, @The Inscrutable Chinaman

    However the verbal score will have been normed against kids of about 21 with no particular interest in the English language or in writing, some of whom will have English as their second language, so 800 was nothing special.

    I would say that any reasonably intelligent person who was interested in literature or writing would also almost automatically score 800 on the verbal English section,

    I have a phd in English Lit. No one in my cohort in grad school had an 800 on the GRE verbal.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @syonredux

    The GRE verbal may be tougher than the SAT verbal, although it's true my own GRE verbal and SAT verbal scores were almost exactly the same. The GRE is supposed to test to see if you've picked up a college-level vocabulary.

    It's possible that with the new flood of minorities coming into the US and pushing our test scores down, that there's a new, secret 'norming' of every year's test scores to recenter them downwards that no one knows about outside of the testing agency. I wouldn't put it beyond the Obama administration to put pressure on the testing agency to do this. I can't remember if the SAT asks for your ethnicity, but it's also possible the agency is adding points to the scores of obviously minority students.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @syonredux

    Yes -- unless the GRE has seriously relaxed their standards, getting an 800 verbal is rare. I'm no slouch at test-taking -- I had very high SAT and ACT scores -- but didn't come close to 800 on the GRE verbal (I took it in the late 80s).

    I know two people who got SAT verbal 800s. Both were in their 30s when they took the test; I think a more mature -- hence bigger -- vocabulary may have helped them out, but both are very intelligent.

    The GRE math and analytic sections were much easier.

    Replies: @Jack D, @The Last Real Calvinist

  38. @Anonymous
    Michael Wilbon, the black Washington Post sports columnist who along with fellow Post sports columnist Tony Kornheiser hosts a popular sports show on ESPN, spoke at my high school. I can't remember what the occasion was, but in his talk, he recounted how he scored high on the SAT verbal - it was something in the 700s, I can't remember the exact score - but that his overall score didn't break 1000. He didn't say what he scored on the math section, just that he scored something in the 700s on verbal and didn't break 1000 overall, which would mean a very low math score. Of course, it's impossible to tell if this is true, or if he even remembers correctly, or if he was just exaggerating for effect.

    I haven't read his column in a decade, and have only caught glimpses of his TV appearances, but if I remember correctly, he is fairly articulate and well spoken, especially compared to most black commentators.

    Replies: @Hail

    700 Verbal
    300 Math

    Implies a math ability at the first percentile, i.e. a Math IQ at the level of a mentally-impaired person. Not plausible at all. Not believable.

    Maybe he meant “didn’t break out of the 1000s”? i.e. 700 Verbal 390 Math = 1090. Still seems way too low and not plausible.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @Hail

    Michael Wilbon (born 1958) graduated from Chicago's St. Ignatius Prep and Northwestern. Mellody Hobson (born 1969), George Lucas' wife, also attend St. Ignatius Prep, graduated from Princeton, and is the president of Ariel Investments. Wilbon went to school at a time when learning disabilities were rarely accommodated, so either he misspoke or Anonymous is remembering incorrectly.

    That being said, blacks are let in top schools with SAT scores below 1000. Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps from teachers and administrators. Based on that, I thought I’d done pretty well.

    So I’m in college, right? Freshman year, and I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article1944834.html
     

    OT: In the last couple of years, there have been a spate of deaths among black sports journalists in their 50s.

    Replies: @Hail

    , @Anonymous
    @Hail

    It would be in the first percentile of SAT takers, right? SAT takers are a subset of normal high school students, who themselves are a subset of teenage kids that aren't mentally impaired.

  39. @Jack D
    What's interesting is his MATH SAT score. Miranda went to Wesleyan. At Wesleyan the average math sat score is 705 and the 25th percentile score is 660 (so we can infer 615 for the 0th percentile in math). He probably had the lowest math SAT of any Wesleyan student. Being Puerto Rican AND the son of a well connected Democrat party operative must have gotten him in. If he was non-Latino white or Asian, they would have flung his application in the reject pile so fast that his head would have spun.

    Replies: @Hail, @Alan Mercer, @res

    I don’t know what the SAT score profile of the incoming class in fall 1998 was, Miranda’s year, but here are the numbers Wesleyan provides today:

    SAT Math scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    780 — 75th percentile
    740 — median
    700 — 25th percentile

    SAT Verbal (CR) scores of Admitted Wesleyan students
    770 — 75th percentile
    740 — median
    700 — 25th percentile

    The estimate that he was the lowest Math SAT of any admitted Wesleyan student in his class is likely, if he is remembering that 500 Math correctly. (Statistically likely; racial affirmative action may skew this.)

  40. “Miranda based his musical on Ron Chernow’s massive 2004 biography of Alexander Hamilton, which he took along on vacation for some beach reading.”

    Maybe Miranda’s next show could be based on Chernow’s book “Titan” – with John D. Rockefeller portrayed as a dreadlocked, bling-wearing OG gansta-pimp.

  41. I doubt Obama scored high on his SAT. I doubt any Negro has scored high enough to get into an Ivy League Law School if admissions were color blind. We can surmise this because if they did score high enough, there would be no call for Affirmative Action. Because of AA, the academic credentials of every Negro in the US is suspect.

  42. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux
    @Jonathan Mason


    However the verbal score will have been normed against kids of about 21 with no particular interest in the English language or in writing, some of whom will have English as their second language, so 800 was nothing special.
     

    I would say that any reasonably intelligent person who was interested in literature or writing would also almost automatically score 800 on the verbal English section,
     
    I have a phd in English Lit. No one in my cohort in grad school had an 800 on the GRE verbal.

    Replies: @Anon, @The Last Real Calvinist

    The GRE verbal may be tougher than the SAT verbal, although it’s true my own GRE verbal and SAT verbal scores were almost exactly the same. The GRE is supposed to test to see if you’ve picked up a college-level vocabulary.

    It’s possible that with the new flood of minorities coming into the US and pushing our test scores down, that there’s a new, secret ‘norming’ of every year’s test scores to recenter them downwards that no one knows about outside of the testing agency. I wouldn’t put it beyond the Obama administration to put pressure on the testing agency to do this. I can’t remember if the SAT asks for your ethnicity, but it’s also possible the agency is adding points to the scores of obviously minority students.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Anon


    The GRE verbal may be tougher than the SAT verbal, although it’s true my own GRE verbal and SAT verbal scores were almost exactly the same.
     
    Most people that I've asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.

    Replies: @res

  43. @SFG
    @Questionator

    Oh yeah. These literati guys resent people who are good at math. I guess, since most of them are connected, they figure if they'd been good at math they'd be at Google and Apple and famous *and* rich. (Lin-Manuel of course is both now that he's got a successful musical, but he knows his audience.)

    If you want an interesting HBD angle this does suggest Hispanics have a higher 'right tail' than blacks due to the heavy European admixture...Argentines are pretty pale (as they love to tell you), and Uruguayans even more so. I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties... "Hey, you can come to America, get affirmative action, and the cops will never bug you!"

    Replies: @Psmith, @james wilson, @Gringo

    “Argentines are pretty pale (as they love to tell you), and Uruguayans even more so. I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties”

    The Argentinian IQ average is curiously low, a real outlier. Maybe they bred with peacocks, which they emulate.

  44. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The people who test for giftedness keep saying there’s a direct correlation between high math and high verbal scores. You have one, you tend to have the other. Yet anecdotally, I’ve come across a whole long string of writers who claim to have had good verbal scores but lousy math scores. This is a puzzle. It’s possible that in the very top tier, such as scores like 750-800, there is a correlation, but this correlation breaks down with verbal scores of around 650-740 or so.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anon

    People who are relatively normal tend to have evenly matched verbal and math scores. But there are some people whose brains are skewed more toward one side or the other. Some of them are even extremely gifted in one realm. Feynman barely got into Princeton for grad school because he had incredibly low verbal scores - he just didn't give a damn about stuff like grammar, literature, etc. - he was only interested in working on challenging problems in science and math.

    , @gregor
    @Anon

    There is a pretty strong positive correlation (70%).

    I would guess you are right that the correlation is non-linear, but regardless given a very high score on one section, you'd still have a conditional mean way over 500 on the other section. In other words, if you just looked at verbal scores in the 700-800 range, perhaps that 100 points of variation would have modest correlation with the corresponding math scores. Yet most of those math scores are going to be above average. That's because the points up to 700 are still there and they boost the expected math score. I mentioned this in another comment, but given a verbal score of 760, you'd expect a math score of around 690. A 500 is possible, sure, but it is an outlier. I would think writing would be a good job for such people.

    , @EvolutionistX
    @Anon

    They're correlated, but lots of people are still slightly better at one than the other.

    Writers, by definition, are selected for high verbal abilities, so most of them are better at writing than math. Most of them are also above average at math. Few of them have any perspective on how bad the average person is at math, and most of them are modest.

    Most scientists I've met are better at math than writing, but still above average in writing.

  45. Anonymous [AKA "Joyce Matthews"] says:

    People still use the “Upper East Side” as an abbreviation for rich, Democratic and liberal. Although not inaccurate, the UES is somewhat equivalent to Chinese food in that decades ago it was one of the few foreign cuisines available, but now no self-respecting snob would be caught dead in a Chinese restaurant. Time and taste move on. Similarly, the UES is now one of the cheaper sections of Manhattan to rent or buy. There is still some old (very old) money there and 5th Ave apartments overlooking the Park still command top dollar, but the real taste makers wouldn’t be caught dead living in the UES anymore. Proof of all this is that the UES is now a restaurant desert.

    The wealthy elegants want Tribeca, Soho, Meatpacking or the West Village. Using the UES to signify hip, liberal and wealthy dates you Steve. 😉

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    I was trying to use Upper East Side to refer to wealthy and corporate, which seems to be the target audience of the musical: e.g., past and present Secretaries of the Treasury.

    Replies: @Jimi

    , @Questionator
    @Anonymous

    Throw Brooklyn into that mix.

  46. Aren’t these the high V low M types that Steve Hsu always shits on? In other words, these people are basically uh dumbasses…

  47. Moshe says:
    @Hodag
    You should read up on the Platinum hedge fund fiasco in NY. A tight knit group of Orthodox got together to do a poor man's Madoff and AIG, got caught paying off the black head of the Riker's jail guard union with 30k in a designer bag to keep the Ponzi scheme going.

    The NY political class is in it up to their necks.

    BTW, who is the best pitcher in the NL now?

    Replies: @Moshe

    I know I have to many stories to sound believable but despite having been astoundingly unsuccessful at finding two nickels to rub together I do, fortunately, have a rather beautiful and fascinating life.

    Point is, I had dinner with Murray Huberfeld in his home.

    I’ve since had the experience of mingling with other multi millionaires but Murray was the first and the experience was an eye opener.

    Like all people, the super rich are clanish and (again, like all people) they take their own seriously and tend to view others as outsiders.

    I assume people would be interested in some insights into the man and his thinking but I’m typing by phone so I’d rather just share what was most interesting to me at the time.

    The first interesting thing was how, due to his choice real estate and garden, he had a couple of months a year where the area outside from his entry gate to his front door was saturated with tiny flying things. That made me happy. He might be as rich as Solomon but he had to put up with walking through a hundred meters of fleas everyday and I did not! 🙂

    But that’s where the downside to his residence ended.

    Incredibly expensive paintings hung on the wall including, if I remember correctly, and original Picasso.

    Beyond that there was some talk of his scouting out some airplane manufacturing company, I don’t recall weather it was to buy a plane or to buy hey steak in the company.

    He and the other wealthy guest also swapped sob stories about how occasionally their Federal Expressed didn’t get to their overseas resorts until an hour after they’d arrived.

    Then there was the 24 karat gold salt and pepper shakers at each setting, yada yada yada.

    I get where some might be envious of him if that’s your thing, but, aside for the fact that apparently he’s in some trouble now (something I didn’t know until I just read the comment that I’m responding to) it’s worth realizing that a quarter of the planet’s inhabitants have far more reason to be envious of your spendthrift lifestyle than you have to be envious of his – relatively – modest one.

    Its all relative.

    Anyhow, the news is interesting. As someone displeased with the aristocracy I feel some pleasure when they get caught and punished but, as someone who was posted at his home, obviously I wish him well.

    I also have more to say about certain things on the general subject but, no matter what stories I share here, on facebook or in person, a good 50% of the very interesting facets of my life are never shared including, an additional wild story I have to share on this subject. Wish I could.

  48. Why no musical adaptation of Philip Dru: Administrator

  49. @Jack D
    What's interesting is his MATH SAT score. Miranda went to Wesleyan. At Wesleyan the average math sat score is 705 and the 25th percentile score is 660 (so we can infer 615 for the 0th percentile in math). He probably had the lowest math SAT of any Wesleyan student. Being Puerto Rican AND the son of a well connected Democrat party operative must have gotten him in. If he was non-Latino white or Asian, they would have flung his application in the reject pile so fast that his head would have spun.

    Replies: @Hail, @Alan Mercer, @res

    Your essential point is correct, but the math is a little off. If the scores are normally distributed with median 705 and 25th percentile 660, the standard deviation is 67. That makes 615 the 9th percentile and 550 the 1st percentile.

  50. @Jack D
    What's interesting is his MATH SAT score. Miranda went to Wesleyan. At Wesleyan the average math sat score is 705 and the 25th percentile score is 660 (so we can infer 615 for the 0th percentile in math). He probably had the lowest math SAT of any Wesleyan student. Being Puerto Rican AND the son of a well connected Democrat party operative must have gotten him in. If he was non-Latino white or Asian, they would have flung his application in the reject pile so fast that his head would have spun.

    Replies: @Hail, @Alan Mercer, @res

    Overall I strongly agree with your points, but I’m not sure about this one: “25th percentile score is 660 (so we can infer 615 for the 0th percentile in math)”
    In these days of affirmative action (and it was similar in Miranda’s day) I would not be surprised to find single digit percent of surprisingly low math scores (e.g. less than 615,). But the public is unlikely to ever see numbers like that so it’s just guesswork unless you know someone in admissions. Knowing the median score (relative to the average) would help assess the skew of the distribution.

    I also saw different numbers for Wesleyan’s 25-75% range (not sure of your source, but Miranda was there >15 years ago (but after 1995) so current data may not be a good guide):
    630-740 at http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=205
    630 – 740 at http://www.princetonreview.com/schools/1023852/college/wesleyan-university

    Note that this site says 6% of freshman have a GPA <= 3.25
    http://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/connecticut/wesleyan-university/admission/
    (giving an idea of how a long tail at the low end is common, I tend to believe this is due to affirmative action, but there may be other contributors like big donors, athletes, or legacies)

    P.S. For some more details see http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/apply/classprofile.html
    37% of those admitted for the class of 2020 then accepted. The median SAT Math was 20 points higher for admits than for students (740 vs 720).

  51. I took the SAT in the early 2000s. I took it only once, absolutely cold – no prep whatsoever. 800 verbal, 660 math. (Embarassingly low math score, yes.)

    I’m not Puerto Rican, but I’m sure I could find a shaman who would attest that I am descended from a long line of Paiute royalty. That would make me an honorary Amerindian, thus making my SAT score sound more impressive than it is.

    Hollywood, here I come!

    My first script, The Bubbe and the Bubba, focuses on the adventures of an irascible Jewish grandmother who takes a wrong turn on the way to her grandson’s bar mitzvah and ends up stranded in Deliveranceville, Georgia. She discovers that the local neo-Nazi KKK leaders are plotting to overthrow the U.S. government with help from Trump and Putin. She teams up with a dim-witted but kind-hearted retarded man named Bubba who mows down the baddies with his AR-15.

    Yes, I’m selling out my principles by joining the Leftist Dark Side, but at least I’m getting a good price.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    @Stan Adams

    "Adams the Musical". Fan fic comes to Broadway. Adams came from humble origins and never owned slaves. I see Kendrick Lamar in the title role.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    , @Jimi
    @Stan Adams

    Bubba should be black and bubbe should by the end of the script learn to appreciate her grandson for his newly found homosexuality. That's a wrap!

  52. @Hail
    @Anonymous

    700 Verbal
    300 Math

    Implies a math ability at the first percentile, i.e. a Math IQ at the level of a mentally-impaired person. Not plausible at all. Not believable.

    Maybe he meant "didn't break out of the 1000s"? i.e. 700 Verbal 390 Math = 1090. Still seems way too low and not plausible.

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Anonymous

    Michael Wilbon (born 1958) graduated from Chicago’s St. Ignatius Prep and Northwestern. Mellody Hobson (born 1969), George Lucas’ wife, also attend St. Ignatius Prep, graduated from Princeton, and is the president of Ariel Investments. Wilbon went to school at a time when learning disabilities were rarely accommodated, so either he misspoke or Anonymous is remembering incorrectly.

    That being said, blacks are let in top schools with SAT scores below 1000. Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps from teachers and administrators. Based on that, I thought I’d done pretty well.

    So I’m in college, right? Freshman year, and I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article1944834.html

    OT: In the last couple of years, there have been a spate of deaths among black sports journalists in their 50s.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @Triumph104


    Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps
     

     
    According to this, his old-SAT score of 960 would put him at IQ 116, which is certainly good by any standard and supposedly the average IQ of college professors (and is, of course, at just over +2 SD for Black Americans).

    I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

     

    = IQ 129, or about +2 SD within the White American population. Both Pitts and Reed were representative of their racial population groups.

    If it is true Michael Wilbon "didn't break 1000" on the old SAT, he could still easily have an IQ in the mid 110s, which is, again, good by any standard. 990 on the old SAT equals IQ 118. The only thing that doesn't add up is the implied 700 Verbal, 290 Math...

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104, @Triumph104

  53. Right now on the Golden Gate Bridge there’s a SOS (“Save Our Schools”) march. A few thousand folks in yellow t-shirts, 90% of them Asian. Anybody know what it’s about ? A few months back Diane Ravitch gave a speech to SOS about the perils of standardized testing, so I assume there’s some leftist agenda here too.

  54. Anonymous [AKA "kingler"] says:

    Buffers? Could that be John Buffalo Mailer and spouse?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Nah, it's some teenage sisters Miranda knows via show biz who have a digital presence called Still Buffering.

  55. @Gringo
    @Questionator

    I’d wager that those weren’t the precise numbers. (Though I’m not saying he is deliberately lying.)

    Perhaps you are talking about rounding off. When I took the SAT many years ago, my scores ended in a 5 and a 2. When I took the GRE decades later on two occasions, my scores ended with zeroes. Perhaps SAT scores are now rounded off the way the GRE scores appeared to be when I took the GRE.

    Replies: @James Kabala, @Stan Adams

    All SAT scores end in zeroes and have for a long time. (Sorry if that makes you feel old.) I think it even predates the mid-1990s recentering, but certainly no later than that.

  56. @Steve Sailer
    @Glossy

    Still Buffering are a couple of teen sisters with an advice column.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    There isn’t much information on the show. One article said the sisters typed “Go” on their Facebook page to see how many likes they would get. Vapid teen girl stuff.

    The sisters are from Huntington, WV. Syndee Smirl McElroy is a 2009 graduate of Marshall University’s school of medicine and she practices family medicine. In 2007 Taylor Smirl was a graduate of The School of Visual Arts in New York City and working on a graphic novel. Their sister Rileigh is in high school and recently joined the show.

  57. Anonymous [AKA "bdavies"] says:
    @sprfls
    Such a yuge disparity between scores is kind of rare. I too question whether it's authentic (an almost perfect Verbal and an exactly average Quantitative sounds like it has a higher than random chance of being a made up score). Interesting if true, however.

    Of course, after sex, SAT scores are probably the most lied about topic.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @EH, @gregor

    My younger daughter got an 800 verbal 500 math on her SAT.

  58. I like this idea of a high achiever being claimed for a favored race. It certainly helps with those races that are rapidly running out of people of their own race to celebrate. Black folks are aware they’re really scraping the bottom of the black achievement barrel by hauling out Harriet Tubman. Thank goodness a talented black or Puerto Rican playwright can pull out a “Black Edison” out at a moments notice.

    As a white guy, I too have gotten tired of the same old same old. For all intents, one of the cleverest black folks around might have been Malcolm X. I want to see our Leonardo DiCaprio starring as Malcolm. Show Denzel Washington how it’s done!!

  59. @Anonymous
    Buffers? Could that be John Buffalo Mailer and spouse?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Nah, it’s some teenage sisters Miranda knows via show biz who have a digital presence called Still Buffering.

  60. @Anonymous
    People still use the "Upper East Side" as an abbreviation for rich, Democratic and liberal. Although not inaccurate, the UES is somewhat equivalent to Chinese food in that decades ago it was one of the few foreign cuisines available, but now no self-respecting snob would be caught dead in a Chinese restaurant. Time and taste move on. Similarly, the UES is now one of the cheaper sections of Manhattan to rent or buy. There is still some old (very old) money there and 5th Ave apartments overlooking the Park still command top dollar, but the real taste makers wouldn't be caught dead living in the UES anymore. Proof of all this is that the UES is now a restaurant desert.

    The wealthy elegants want Tribeca, Soho, Meatpacking or the West Village. Using the UES to signify hip, liberal and wealthy dates you Steve. ;-)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Questionator

    I was trying to use Upper East Side to refer to wealthy and corporate, which seems to be the target audience of the musical: e.g., past and present Secretaries of the Treasury.

    • Replies: @Jimi
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, what you disregard is that even the wealthy and the corporate now want to seem Bohemian and edgy. And therefore they refuse to live in the Upper East Side for the same reason they want to see Hamilton.

    The Upper West Side is now more expensive than the Upper East Side. And that's where the rich and corporate guys who want to live uptown live. Otherwise its downtown and a few even throw down a couple of million dollars for a townhouse in Brooklyn.

    Upper East Side is where young frat guys from Middle America live. Cheaper rent and they get to tell their relatives back home they live on "Lexington Avenue."

  61. @sprfls
    Such a yuge disparity between scores is kind of rare. I too question whether it's authentic (an almost perfect Verbal and an exactly average Quantitative sounds like it has a higher than random chance of being a made up score). Interesting if true, however.

    Of course, after sex, SAT scores are probably the most lied about topic.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @EH, @gregor

    760 is a possible score, it means one question missed. If one question skipped, then the score is 780. (Pre-1995 at least. In the past couple of years they eliminated the penalty for guessing.) Big discrepancies between math and verbal are not at all unusual, the correlation in the upper score range is low. 260 points is unusually large, though.

    Pre-1995 verbal scores reflect a much more difficult and accurate test. In 1988 a 760V was top 1 in 2,500. Seven people got a 1600 that year, IIRC, or about 1 in 140,000. Now a 1600 M+CR is about 1 in 1400.

  62. @Anon
    The people who test for giftedness keep saying there's a direct correlation between high math and high verbal scores. You have one, you tend to have the other. Yet anecdotally, I've come across a whole long string of writers who claim to have had good verbal scores but lousy math scores. This is a puzzle. It's possible that in the very top tier, such as scores like 750-800, there is a correlation, but this correlation breaks down with verbal scores of around 650-740 or so.

    Replies: @Jack D, @gregor, @EvolutionistX

    People who are relatively normal tend to have evenly matched verbal and math scores. But there are some people whose brains are skewed more toward one side or the other. Some of them are even extremely gifted in one realm. Feynman barely got into Princeton for grad school because he had incredibly low verbal scores – he just didn’t give a damn about stuff like grammar, literature, etc. – he was only interested in working on challenging problems in science and math.

  63. @Stan Adams
    I took the SAT in the early 2000s. I took it only once, absolutely cold - no prep whatsoever. 800 verbal, 660 math. (Embarassingly low math score, yes.)

    I'm not Puerto Rican, but I'm sure I could find a shaman who would attest that I am descended from a long line of Paiute royalty. That would make me an honorary Amerindian, thus making my SAT score sound more impressive than it is.

    Hollywood, here I come!

    My first script, The Bubbe and the Bubba, focuses on the adventures of an irascible Jewish grandmother who takes a wrong turn on the way to her grandson's bar mitzvah and ends up stranded in Deliveranceville, Georgia. She discovers that the local neo-Nazi KKK leaders are plotting to overthrow the U.S. government with help from Trump and Putin. She teams up with a dim-witted but kind-hearted retarded man named Bubba who mows down the baddies with his AR-15.

    Yes, I'm selling out my principles by joining the Leftist Dark Side, but at least I'm getting a good price.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @Jimi

    “Adams the Musical”. Fan fic comes to Broadway. Adams came from humble origins and never owned slaves. I see Kendrick Lamar in the title role.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Dennis Dale

    The Adamses* - the Father and the Son - gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.

    (The Unholy Ghost is Hillary, who carries on in their footsteps by picking up the torch that her husband surrendered to that other prominent bearer of a famous name, Bush the Second, one-score-minus-five years ago.)

    *No relation. Stan Adams is my nom de Internet, you see.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @syonredux

  64. @Dennis Dale
    @Stan Adams

    "Adams the Musical". Fan fic comes to Broadway. Adams came from humble origins and never owned slaves. I see Kendrick Lamar in the title role.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    The Adamses* – the Father and the Son – gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.

    (The Unholy Ghost is Hillary, who carries on in their footsteps by picking up the torch that her husband surrendered to that other prominent bearer of a famous name, Bush the Second, one-score-minus-five years ago.)

    *No relation. Stan Adams is my nom de Internet, you see.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    @Stan Adams

    Father and son--yes, it's "Hamilton" meets "Empire". Adams beefed with Jefferson in 1800 as hard as any rap rivalry. He disowned a dissolute, hard-partying son--that'll have to be featured.
    Seriously, this stuff is gold! Is there a gay aesthete contingent here at iSteve that can do something with this?

    , @syonredux
    @Stan Adams


    The Adamses* – the Father and the Son – gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.
     
    Except that JQ ADams actually was qualified to be president. Unlike Hillary, JQ was one of our best Secretaries of State:

    Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

    She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet upon her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world: she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.
     
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/repository/she-goes-not-abroad-in-search-of-monsters-to-destroy/

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Dennis Dale

  65. @Gringo
    @Questionator

    I’d wager that those weren’t the precise numbers. (Though I’m not saying he is deliberately lying.)

    Perhaps you are talking about rounding off. When I took the SAT many years ago, my scores ended in a 5 and a 2. When I took the GRE decades later on two occasions, my scores ended with zeroes. Perhaps SAT scores are now rounded off the way the GRE scores appeared to be when I took the GRE.

    Replies: @James Kabala, @Stan Adams

    It seems that they began rounding the scores to the nearest zero in the early ’70s.

  66. @sprfls
    Such a yuge disparity between scores is kind of rare. I too question whether it's authentic (an almost perfect Verbal and an exactly average Quantitative sounds like it has a higher than random chance of being a made up score). Interesting if true, however.

    Of course, after sex, SAT scores are probably the most lied about topic.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @EH, @gregor

    It seems more common than it actually is because people often talk as though math and verbal intelligence were negatively correlated. This is probably because among a restricted sample (say, people scoring 1400+) there will actually be a negative relationship, but overall without such sorting the two have about a 70% positive correlation.

    Given a 760 verbal, the conditional mean of the math score would be about 690 (about 30% back toward the mean). Based on the parameters Steve gives, the difference, Verbal minus Math, would have mean= negative 18 and SD = ~90. Counting both tails,

    100+ gap, 19.1%
    150+ gap, 6.3%
    200+ gap, 1.6%

    A 260+point gap would be about 1 in 482.

    Of course, this is all assuming bivariate normal, and it might be the correlation breaks down somewhat in the tails.

  67. @Anonymous
    People still use the "Upper East Side" as an abbreviation for rich, Democratic and liberal. Although not inaccurate, the UES is somewhat equivalent to Chinese food in that decades ago it was one of the few foreign cuisines available, but now no self-respecting snob would be caught dead in a Chinese restaurant. Time and taste move on. Similarly, the UES is now one of the cheaper sections of Manhattan to rent or buy. There is still some old (very old) money there and 5th Ave apartments overlooking the Park still command top dollar, but the real taste makers wouldn't be caught dead living in the UES anymore. Proof of all this is that the UES is now a restaurant desert.

    The wealthy elegants want Tribeca, Soho, Meatpacking or the West Village. Using the UES to signify hip, liberal and wealthy dates you Steve. ;-)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Questionator

    Throw Brooklyn into that mix.

  68. @JimB
    @Realist

    Based on Steve's generally optimistic outlook of Obama's abilities. It makes more sense that Obama scored approximately average or lower in the Occidental student body. As a white person he might have been admitted to Fordham or Seton Hall law school. And in either of those schools, with their emphasis on practical law training, he would have been lucky to graduate in the middle of his class.

    Replies: @Realist

    “Alan R. Lockwood claims that Barack Obama, while brilliant, may have entered Harvard Law School in the bottom 20% of his class, based on mediocre college grades–and high Law School Admission Test (LSAT) scores.”

    …while brilliant…. What the hell does that mean? It is not known to the public what Obama’s academic scores were or his IQ it is all conjecture.

    Here is some more conjecture for you. Obama probably was excepted to Harvard and elected President because he is black.

  69. @Hail
    @Anonymous

    700 Verbal
    300 Math

    Implies a math ability at the first percentile, i.e. a Math IQ at the level of a mentally-impaired person. Not plausible at all. Not believable.

    Maybe he meant "didn't break out of the 1000s"? i.e. 700 Verbal 390 Math = 1090. Still seems way too low and not plausible.

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Anonymous

    It would be in the first percentile of SAT takers, right? SAT takers are a subset of normal high school students, who themselves are a subset of teenage kids that aren’t mentally impaired.

  70. One of the ironies of the conventional wisdom is that standardized testing is supposed to be biased against minorities, and yet white liberals tend to go nuts for the occasional Non-Asian Minority who has what it takes to score high on standardized tests.

    Libs don’t find it ironic. They find it heroic, like the plucky underdogs who win the game despite the corrupt referees paid off to make every call go against them. This is the kind of thing NAMS mean when they say, “I have to be twice as good as a white.”

  71. Hmmmm. Miranda’s scores are just slightly better than mine — though I took the test in 1991 or thereabouts, before the scores were “recentered.” Like him, I also had a sky-high verbal and a middling math score…

  72. @Stan Adams
    @Dennis Dale

    The Adamses* - the Father and the Son - gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.

    (The Unholy Ghost is Hillary, who carries on in their footsteps by picking up the torch that her husband surrendered to that other prominent bearer of a famous name, Bush the Second, one-score-minus-five years ago.)

    *No relation. Stan Adams is my nom de Internet, you see.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @syonredux

    Father and son–yes, it’s “Hamilton” meets “Empire”. Adams beefed with Jefferson in 1800 as hard as any rap rivalry. He disowned a dissolute, hard-partying son–that’ll have to be featured.
    Seriously, this stuff is gold! Is there a gay aesthete contingent here at iSteve that can do something with this?

  73. @Hhsiii
    I did 760 verbal, 720 math in 1981. That was the highest verbal and combined score at Choate, my high school for my last 2 years. I'd started at Montclair High in NJ. But I had already taken the ssat and psat, plus I took some practice tests from a booklet. No special classes though. And I originally got 540 math but retook the test. Only the highest of each score gets reported to colleges.

    I was a good tester but a lazy student. Cs mostly. I got wait listed at UPenn and ended up at UNC-Chapel Hill.

    My roommate there was from Lenoir, NC. He got 800s across the board on his GSE's. Went to the Kennedy School. Ended up at the Fed then UBS as chief risk officer, now at a spinoff for their hard to value assets. We are godparents to each other's kids. More fortunately for my kids than his.

    He's very smart. Very well read. But I know well read very smart people who dropped out of state schools. I haven't taken an IQ test that I recall. But I doubt I'd be that high. I'd guess around 125.

    Replies: @artichoke

    The SAT pre-1995 is considered about the most reliable IQ test used by high-IQ societies. It’s not designed exactly as an IQ test, but it’s got good test security and you don’t get to retake it lots of times with different psychologists that may reward your payment with a high score that can be used to get into the IQ society. Not casting shade on psychs, but this is rumored to happen. Anyway the SAT is less imperfect than most other tests including specific IQ tests.

    And your score equates to more like 145 (at least) not 125 on an IQ scale with standard deviation of 15. You may not feel so special but here’s a secret. IQ percentiles are calculated assuming a Gaussian distribution of scores, but actually the distribution has quite fat tails.

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    @artichoke

    Well that's nice to know.

  74. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    I was trying to use Upper East Side to refer to wealthy and corporate, which seems to be the target audience of the musical: e.g., past and present Secretaries of the Treasury.

    Replies: @Jimi

    Steve, what you disregard is that even the wealthy and the corporate now want to seem Bohemian and edgy. And therefore they refuse to live in the Upper East Side for the same reason they want to see Hamilton.

    The Upper West Side is now more expensive than the Upper East Side. And that’s where the rich and corporate guys who want to live uptown live. Otherwise its downtown and a few even throw down a couple of million dollars for a townhouse in Brooklyn.

    Upper East Side is where young frat guys from Middle America live. Cheaper rent and they get to tell their relatives back home they live on “Lexington Avenue.”

  75. @Anon
    @syonredux

    The GRE verbal may be tougher than the SAT verbal, although it's true my own GRE verbal and SAT verbal scores were almost exactly the same. The GRE is supposed to test to see if you've picked up a college-level vocabulary.

    It's possible that with the new flood of minorities coming into the US and pushing our test scores down, that there's a new, secret 'norming' of every year's test scores to recenter them downwards that no one knows about outside of the testing agency. I wouldn't put it beyond the Obama administration to put pressure on the testing agency to do this. I can't remember if the SAT asks for your ethnicity, but it's also possible the agency is adding points to the scores of obviously minority students.

    Replies: @syonredux

    The GRE verbal may be tougher than the SAT verbal, although it’s true my own GRE verbal and SAT verbal scores were almost exactly the same.

    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.

    • Replies: @res
    @syonredux


    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.
     
    Did that change before and after the 1995 SAT recentering? Were most of the people you talked to pre or post 1995 SAT?

    Replies: @syonredux, @SPMoore8

  76. @Stan Adams
    I took the SAT in the early 2000s. I took it only once, absolutely cold - no prep whatsoever. 800 verbal, 660 math. (Embarassingly low math score, yes.)

    I'm not Puerto Rican, but I'm sure I could find a shaman who would attest that I am descended from a long line of Paiute royalty. That would make me an honorary Amerindian, thus making my SAT score sound more impressive than it is.

    Hollywood, here I come!

    My first script, The Bubbe and the Bubba, focuses on the adventures of an irascible Jewish grandmother who takes a wrong turn on the way to her grandson's bar mitzvah and ends up stranded in Deliveranceville, Georgia. She discovers that the local neo-Nazi KKK leaders are plotting to overthrow the U.S. government with help from Trump and Putin. She teams up with a dim-witted but kind-hearted retarded man named Bubba who mows down the baddies with his AR-15.

    Yes, I'm selling out my principles by joining the Leftist Dark Side, but at least I'm getting a good price.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @Jimi

    Bubba should be black and bubbe should by the end of the script learn to appreciate her grandson for his newly found homosexuality. That’s a wrap!

  77. @Stan Adams
    @Dennis Dale

    The Adamses* - the Father and the Son - gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.

    (The Unholy Ghost is Hillary, who carries on in their footsteps by picking up the torch that her husband surrendered to that other prominent bearer of a famous name, Bush the Second, one-score-minus-five years ago.)

    *No relation. Stan Adams is my nom de Internet, you see.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @syonredux

    The Adamses* – the Father and the Son – gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.

    Except that JQ ADams actually was qualified to be president. Unlike Hillary, JQ was one of our best Secretaries of State:

    Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

    She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet upon her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world: she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/repository/she-goes-not-abroad-in-search-of-monsters-to-destroy/

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @syonredux


    she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
     
    Yes, she most certainly would. Gladly.

    "We came ... we saw ... he died." [Demonic laughter]

    Her dream of drinking a toast over Assad's - nay, Putin's - corpse is our national - nay, global - nightmare.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RT5YwvcbNo

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @Dennis Dale
    @syonredux

    The disparity in wisdom, intellect and character between those guys and what we have today is jarring. But here's another thing I like about Trump: for all his apparent anti-intellectualism, I sense he's a guy who reads this and is moved just like you or I to honor it, whereas Hillary just doesn't care. He gets it.

  78. @JamesG
    I haven't seen Hamilton but its reviews led me to read Chernow's biography which I highly recommend.

    Hamilton was an absolutely prodigious worker.

    A great executive.

    And all that writing-- the Federalists-- done manually!

    Replies: @syonredux

    I haven’t seen Hamilton but its reviews led me to read Chernow’s biography which I highly recommend.

    Hamilton was an absolutely prodigious worker.

    A great executive.

    And all that writing– the Federalists– done manually!

    Hamilton was a very impressive guy. I think that it was Brookhiser who said that Hamilton probably had the highest IQ of the Founders, with Jefferson ranking tops in learning.

  79. @syonredux
    @Stan Adams


    The Adamses* – the Father and the Son – gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.
     
    Except that JQ ADams actually was qualified to be president. Unlike Hillary, JQ was one of our best Secretaries of State:

    Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

    She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet upon her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world: she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.
     
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/repository/she-goes-not-abroad-in-search-of-monsters-to-destroy/

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Dennis Dale

    she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

    Yes, she most certainly would. Gladly.

    “We came … we saw … he died.” [Demonic laughter]

    Her dream of drinking a toast over Assad’s – nay, Putin’s – corpse is our national – nay, global – nightmare.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Stan Adams


    she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

    Yes, she most certainly would. Gladly.

    “We came … we saw … he died.” [Demonic laughter]

    Her dream of drinking a toast over Assad’s – nay, Putin’s – corpse is our national – nay, global – nightmare.
     
    Yes, it is quite telling that Hillary fervently desires what JQ Adams warned against.
  80. @syonredux
    @Anon


    The GRE verbal may be tougher than the SAT verbal, although it’s true my own GRE verbal and SAT verbal scores were almost exactly the same.
     
    Most people that I've asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.

    Replies: @res

    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.

    Did that change before and after the 1995 SAT recentering? Were most of the people you talked to pre or post 1995 SAT?

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @res


    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.

    Did that change before and after the 1995 SAT recentering? Were most of the people you talked to pre or post 1995 SAT?
     
    They were all post-1995

    Replies: @res

    , @SPMoore8
    @res

    I took the SAT's and ACT's in the early 70's and the GRE's in the late '70's and the only score I remember was that I got a 790 on the GRE verbal, and the only reason I remember that is because my brother in law opened my scores and teased me because I didn't max it.

    However, I read a huge amount of English and American literature (including poetry) in my teens, and scrupulously wrote down every word I did not know. I know that some people say you should read "Frankenstein" because it supposedly contains all the words on the SAT, but in my experience the two guys with the most challenging vocabularies were Henry James and Joseph Conrad.

    OTOH, the test doesn't merely test vocabulary; IIRC the juxtapositions of words also required that you had a sense for usage, meaning, nuance, and so forth. And that can only come from broad reading.

    But, having said all that I'm not sure if it really means all that much. I mean, I dig that there is such a thing as "g" and that some people have a lot, and some have very little, and most are in the middle. I do think people tend to flog IQ a bit too much. I mean, I wouldn't characterize myself as much more than someone who likes to solve problems, is generally a quick study, and who reads all the time.

  81. @res
    @syonredux


    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.
     
    Did that change before and after the 1995 SAT recentering? Were most of the people you talked to pre or post 1995 SAT?

    Replies: @syonredux, @SPMoore8

    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.

    Did that change before and after the 1995 SAT recentering? Were most of the people you talked to pre or post 1995 SAT?

    They were all post-1995

    • Replies: @res
    @syonredux

    That makes sense then. The SAT verbal got a lot easier in 1995. Old 730 is equivalent to new 800. Contrast that to SAT math where old 780 is equivalent to new 800.

    Conversion tables at https://research.collegeboard.org/node/1740

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome, @Mr. Blank

  82. @res
    @syonredux


    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.
     
    Did that change before and after the 1995 SAT recentering? Were most of the people you talked to pre or post 1995 SAT?

    Replies: @syonredux, @SPMoore8

    I took the SAT’s and ACT’s in the early 70’s and the GRE’s in the late ’70’s and the only score I remember was that I got a 790 on the GRE verbal, and the only reason I remember that is because my brother in law opened my scores and teased me because I didn’t max it.

    However, I read a huge amount of English and American literature (including poetry) in my teens, and scrupulously wrote down every word I did not know. I know that some people say you should read “Frankenstein” because it supposedly contains all the words on the SAT, but in my experience the two guys with the most challenging vocabularies were Henry James and Joseph Conrad.

    OTOH, the test doesn’t merely test vocabulary; IIRC the juxtapositions of words also required that you had a sense for usage, meaning, nuance, and so forth. And that can only come from broad reading.

    But, having said all that I’m not sure if it really means all that much. I mean, I dig that there is such a thing as “g” and that some people have a lot, and some have very little, and most are in the middle. I do think people tend to flog IQ a bit too much. I mean, I wouldn’t characterize myself as much more than someone who likes to solve problems, is generally a quick study, and who reads all the time.

  83. @Dennis Dale
    The "Hamilton" phenomenon is a confluence of Narrative cliches and magical thinking, a weird combination of historical ret-conning, sympathetic magic and cargo cultism seeking to turn reality on its head--that reality being that hip hop culture, black culture now, is actually among the least amenable things to democracy there are. But liberals are already so stupefied they actually seem to think that the mere fact the words of the founders can be rapped means black people are natural democrats.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    That is a most generous assessment. I applaud your willingness to view our ‘opponents’ through rose colored glasses. And of course you mean natural Democrats, no? Because democrats and Democrats don’t have that much in common.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    "Democrats are the real racists" is over. Blacks are the real racists. Has the added benefit of being true.

  84. @Stan Adams
    @syonredux


    she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.
     
    Yes, she most certainly would. Gladly.

    "We came ... we saw ... he died." [Demonic laughter]

    Her dream of drinking a toast over Assad's - nay, Putin's - corpse is our national - nay, global - nightmare.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RT5YwvcbNo

    Replies: @syonredux

    she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

    Yes, she most certainly would. Gladly.

    “We came … we saw … he died.” [Demonic laughter]

    Her dream of drinking a toast over Assad’s – nay, Putin’s – corpse is our national – nay, global – nightmare.

    Yes, it is quite telling that Hillary fervently desires what JQ Adams warned against.

  85. @SFG
    @Questionator

    Oh yeah. These literati guys resent people who are good at math. I guess, since most of them are connected, they figure if they'd been good at math they'd be at Google and Apple and famous *and* rich. (Lin-Manuel of course is both now that he's got a successful musical, but he knows his audience.)

    If you want an interesting HBD angle this does suggest Hispanics have a higher 'right tail' than blacks due to the heavy European admixture...Argentines are pretty pale (as they love to tell you), and Uruguayans even more so. I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties... "Hey, you can come to America, get affirmative action, and the cops will never bug you!"

    Replies: @Psmith, @james wilson, @Gringo

    I do wonder why no enterprising college has tried to raid the Argentine math or science faculties… “Hey, you can come to America, get affirmative action, and the cops will never bug you!”

    Several decades ago I took a Math course taught by a postdoc. By her surname, I assumed she was Middle Eastern. Her lectures were well done. One day I when I was in her office, she answered the phone and proceeded to speak Spanish in a Porteño (Buenos Aires) accent. I correctly concluded that she was one of the Turcos- what Argentines call people whose ancestors emigrated from the Ottoman Empire from what are now Lebanon or Syria. I worked with Turcos on rigs in Argentina.

    I very much doubt that she needed much in the way of affirmative action help. She is teaching at a flagship state university, has published a lot, and advised a respectable number of students who have completed their doctorates.

  86. @syonredux
    @Jonathan Mason


    However the verbal score will have been normed against kids of about 21 with no particular interest in the English language or in writing, some of whom will have English as their second language, so 800 was nothing special.
     

    I would say that any reasonably intelligent person who was interested in literature or writing would also almost automatically score 800 on the verbal English section,
     
    I have a phd in English Lit. No one in my cohort in grad school had an 800 on the GRE verbal.

    Replies: @Anon, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Yes — unless the GRE has seriously relaxed their standards, getting an 800 verbal is rare. I’m no slouch at test-taking — I had very high SAT and ACT scores — but didn’t come close to 800 on the GRE verbal (I took it in the late 80s).

    I know two people who got SAT verbal 800s. Both were in their 30s when they took the test; I think a more mature — hence bigger — vocabulary may have helped them out, but both are very intelligent.

    The GRE math and analytic sections were much easier.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Yes it would be very rare, because the GRE is now grade on a 130 t0 170 (???) scale.

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @The Last Real Calvinist


    I know two people who got SAT verbal 800s.

     

    Gah -- too many acronyms flying around. Of course I meant I know two people who got GRE verbal 800s in their 30s.
  87. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @syonredux

    Yes -- unless the GRE has seriously relaxed their standards, getting an 800 verbal is rare. I'm no slouch at test-taking -- I had very high SAT and ACT scores -- but didn't come close to 800 on the GRE verbal (I took it in the late 80s).

    I know two people who got SAT verbal 800s. Both were in their 30s when they took the test; I think a more mature -- hence bigger -- vocabulary may have helped them out, but both are very intelligent.

    The GRE math and analytic sections were much easier.

    Replies: @Jack D, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Yes it would be very rare, because the GRE is now grade on a 130 t0 170 (???) scale.

  88. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Dennis Dale

    That is a most generous assessment. I applaud your willingness to view our 'opponents' through rose colored glasses. And of course you mean natural Democrats, no? Because democrats and Democrats don't have that much in common.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale

    “Democrats are the real racists” is over. Blacks are the real racists. Has the added benefit of being true.

  89. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @syonredux

    Yes -- unless the GRE has seriously relaxed their standards, getting an 800 verbal is rare. I'm no slouch at test-taking -- I had very high SAT and ACT scores -- but didn't come close to 800 on the GRE verbal (I took it in the late 80s).

    I know two people who got SAT verbal 800s. Both were in their 30s when they took the test; I think a more mature -- hence bigger -- vocabulary may have helped them out, but both are very intelligent.

    The GRE math and analytic sections were much easier.

    Replies: @Jack D, @The Last Real Calvinist

    I know two people who got SAT verbal 800s.

    Gah — too many acronyms flying around. Of course I meant I know two people who got GRE verbal 800s in their 30s.

  90. @Jonathan Mason
    You can't read too much into these standardized tests without looking at whom they are normed against. I was in my mid forties when I took the GRE graduate school examination and scored 800 on verbal, 720 on problem solving, and 700 on math.

    However the verbal score will have been normed against kids of about 21 with no particular interest in the English language or in writing, some of whom will have English as their second language, so 800 was nothing special. The 700 on the math would have been 800 had I known to look at a test prep book to see what type of problems they were setting and understand the lingo. The math test was actually a greater test of English comprehension than the English test and involved little mathematical calculation.

    Anyone who had majored in any kind math-related subject would almost automatically score 800 on the math.

    I would say that any reasonably intelligent person who was interested in literature or writing would also almost automatically score 800 on the verbal English section, because the test was not aimed at them. For a Puerto Rican, for whom English is a second language, a score close to 800 is pretty damn good.

    My step daughter is 8 and in 3rd grade and her public school teacher recently told us that she was reading at kindergarten level according to the school's testing. However I pointed out to her that English is her second language, that she had so far only been in school in the US for 7 weeks, and that if you tested her reading in Spanish, she would do better since many English words are not spelled logically.

    She also has problems with math, because third grade students are apparently supposed to understand terms like "commutative properties" before they can follow the homework instructions for exercises to learn the 3x table.

    Just some of the problems of the "one size fits all" method of education.

    Replies: @syonredux, @The Inscrutable Chinaman

    An 800 verbal is exceptional any way you cut it. Anything above 700 is very good and above 750 is great.

  91. @syonredux
    @res


    Most people that I’ve asked agree that the GRE Verbal is harder than the SAT Verbal.

    Did that change before and after the 1995 SAT recentering? Were most of the people you talked to pre or post 1995 SAT?
     
    They were all post-1995

    Replies: @res

    That makes sense then. The SAT verbal got a lot easier in 1995. Old 730 is equivalent to new 800. Contrast that to SAT math where old 780 is equivalent to new 800.

    Conversion tables at https://research.collegeboard.org/node/1740

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    @res

    Flynn Effect in action.

    Replies: @res

    , @Mr. Blank
    @res

    I never knew they published conversion tables for the old SAT scores. My old scores were slightly lower than Miranda's, but according to this I actually beat him in both verbal and math AND got a perfect 800 verbal!

    Take THAT, Mr. Millionaire Playwright! :)

  92. @Anon
    The people who test for giftedness keep saying there's a direct correlation between high math and high verbal scores. You have one, you tend to have the other. Yet anecdotally, I've come across a whole long string of writers who claim to have had good verbal scores but lousy math scores. This is a puzzle. It's possible that in the very top tier, such as scores like 750-800, there is a correlation, but this correlation breaks down with verbal scores of around 650-740 or so.

    Replies: @Jack D, @gregor, @EvolutionistX

    There is a pretty strong positive correlation (70%).

    I would guess you are right that the correlation is non-linear, but regardless given a very high score on one section, you’d still have a conditional mean way over 500 on the other section. In other words, if you just looked at verbal scores in the 700-800 range, perhaps that 100 points of variation would have modest correlation with the corresponding math scores. Yet most of those math scores are going to be above average. That’s because the points up to 700 are still there and they boost the expected math score. I mentioned this in another comment, but given a verbal score of 760, you’d expect a math score of around 690. A 500 is possible, sure, but it is an outlier. I would think writing would be a good job for such people.

  93. 1260 is a shitty score.

  94. @Anon
    The people who test for giftedness keep saying there's a direct correlation between high math and high verbal scores. You have one, you tend to have the other. Yet anecdotally, I've come across a whole long string of writers who claim to have had good verbal scores but lousy math scores. This is a puzzle. It's possible that in the very top tier, such as scores like 750-800, there is a correlation, but this correlation breaks down with verbal scores of around 650-740 or so.

    Replies: @Jack D, @gregor, @EvolutionistX

    They’re correlated, but lots of people are still slightly better at one than the other.

    Writers, by definition, are selected for high verbal abilities, so most of them are better at writing than math. Most of them are also above average at math. Few of them have any perspective on how bad the average person is at math, and most of them are modest.

    Most scientists I’ve met are better at math than writing, but still above average in writing.

  95. @syonredux
    @Stan Adams


    The Adamses* – the Father and the Son – gave birth to the glorious American tradition of political nepotism.
     
    Except that JQ ADams actually was qualified to be president. Unlike Hillary, JQ was one of our best Secretaries of State:

    Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

    She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlet upon her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished lustre the murky radiance of dominion and power. She might become the dictatress of the world: she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.
     
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/repository/she-goes-not-abroad-in-search-of-monsters-to-destroy/

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Dennis Dale

    The disparity in wisdom, intellect and character between those guys and what we have today is jarring. But here’s another thing I like about Trump: for all his apparent anti-intellectualism, I sense he’s a guy who reads this and is moved just like you or I to honor it, whereas Hillary just doesn’t care. He gets it.

  96. @res
    @syonredux

    That makes sense then. The SAT verbal got a lot easier in 1995. Old 730 is equivalent to new 800. Contrast that to SAT math where old 780 is equivalent to new 800.

    Conversion tables at https://research.collegeboard.org/node/1740

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome, @Mr. Blank

    Flynn Effect in action.

    • Replies: @res
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Not sure if that was a joke. The Flynn effect results in people scoring better over time. The 1995 recentering was driven by the test takers (key point) scoring worse over time. There is some dispute over whether our top students are getting better or worse based on aptitude tests (and it's much harder to tell since they made the SAT easier). I think most of the declining score effect (leading to the need for recentering to keep the average near 500) was caused by the increasing pool of test takers caused by a greater proportion of students going to college.

    For more, here's a NYT article from the time: http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/11/us/sat-increases-the-average-score-by-fiat.html

  97. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @res

    Flynn Effect in action.

    Replies: @res

    Not sure if that was a joke. The Flynn effect results in people scoring better over time. The 1995 recentering was driven by the test takers (key point) scoring worse over time. There is some dispute over whether our top students are getting better or worse based on aptitude tests (and it’s much harder to tell since they made the SAT easier). I think most of the declining score effect (leading to the need for recentering to keep the average near 500) was caused by the increasing pool of test takers caused by a greater proportion of students going to college.

    For more, here’s a NYT article from the time: http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/11/us/sat-increases-the-average-score-by-fiat.html

  98. @res
    @syonredux

    That makes sense then. The SAT verbal got a lot easier in 1995. Old 730 is equivalent to new 800. Contrast that to SAT math where old 780 is equivalent to new 800.

    Conversion tables at https://research.collegeboard.org/node/1740

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome, @Mr. Blank

    I never knew they published conversion tables for the old SAT scores. My old scores were slightly lower than Miranda’s, but according to this I actually beat him in both verbal and math AND got a perfect 800 verbal!

    Take THAT, Mr. Millionaire Playwright! 🙂

  99. @artichoke
    @Hhsiii

    The SAT pre-1995 is considered about the most reliable IQ test used by high-IQ societies. It's not designed exactly as an IQ test, but it's got good test security and you don't get to retake it lots of times with different psychologists that may reward your payment with a high score that can be used to get into the IQ society. Not casting shade on psychs, but this is rumored to happen. Anyway the SAT is less imperfect than most other tests including specific IQ tests.

    And your score equates to more like 145 (at least) not 125 on an IQ scale with standard deviation of 15. You may not feel so special but here's a secret. IQ percentiles are calculated assuming a Gaussian distribution of scores, but actually the distribution has quite fat tails.

    Replies: @hhsiii

    Well that’s nice to know.

  100. @Triumph104
    @Hail

    Michael Wilbon (born 1958) graduated from Chicago's St. Ignatius Prep and Northwestern. Mellody Hobson (born 1969), George Lucas' wife, also attend St. Ignatius Prep, graduated from Princeton, and is the president of Ariel Investments. Wilbon went to school at a time when learning disabilities were rarely accommodated, so either he misspoke or Anonymous is remembering incorrectly.

    That being said, blacks are let in top schools with SAT scores below 1000. Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps from teachers and administrators. Based on that, I thought I’d done pretty well.

    So I’m in college, right? Freshman year, and I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article1944834.html
     

    OT: In the last couple of years, there have been a spate of deaths among black sports journalists in their 50s.

    Replies: @Hail

    Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps

    According to this, his old-SAT score of 960 would put him at IQ 116, which is certainly good by any standard and supposedly the average IQ of college professors (and is, of course, at just over +2 SD for Black Americans).

    I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

    = IQ 129, or about +2 SD within the White American population. Both Pitts and Reed were representative of their racial population groups.

    If it is true Michael Wilbon “didn’t break 1000” on the old SAT, he could still easily have an IQ in the mid 110s, which is, again, good by any standard. 990 on the old SAT equals IQ 118. The only thing that doesn’t add up is the implied 700 Verbal, 290 Math…

    • Replies: @res
    @Hail

    Thanks for posting that. I have used that website many times, but never checked out the pre-1974 page. I'm not sure how to interpret that in conjunction with the 1974-1995 table though. Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT I see no major change in average score from 1973-1975. I also see no mention of a change in the SAT test scoring in that timeframe. However, the pre-1974 table differs dramatically from the 1974-1995 table at the lower end of the score range. 1280 is 133 IQ on both, but 702 is IQ 100 on the old table while 700 is IQ 77 on the newer table.

    The paper underlying the pre-1974 table is available at Libgen with DOI 10.1002/j.2164-4918.1962.tb02298.x
    The paper states: "The data are based upon a sample of 403 students who visited the Office of Guidance and Testing at Georgia Institute of Technology during the years of 1957-1960."

    Because it is based on a selected sample (i.e. those admitted to college in 1957-1960!) I don't trust that pre-1974 table to accurately convert low scores. I also fail to see the justification for distinguishing pre and post 1974 SAT scores.

    What do you think?

    P.S. If anyone wants to dig into pre-1974 scores, this paper contains PSAT based score norming data from 1960, 1966, and 1974: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2333-8504.1976.tb01113.x/pdf

    , @Triumph104
    @Hail

    Good catch. I didn't reread the article and had forgotten that Pitts started college at age 15 and took the pre-1974 SAT. I have the 1985 edition of Lovejoy's College Guide and the average SAT score at USC then (1984-1985) was 475 verbal and 535 math. So Pitts' pre-1974 score of 960 was most likely above average for the university during his time. It almost makes me wonder what Reed was doing there. Full-ride scholarship? Around 1988 or 1989, Junior Seau was admitted to USC with a combined SAT score of 690, but that is a different story.

    Pitts and I made the mistake of thinking his 960 score was equivalent to a latter version.

    Replies: @Ivy

    , @Triumph104
    @Hail

    Michael Wilbon graduated from high school in 1976 and Northwestern in 1980. Since people didn't do much, if any, prep for the SAT in those days, I can't see any reason why he would have taken the pre-1974 SAT. A 990 on the 1974-1995 version would mean an IQ of 105. http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx

    The average SAT score for Northwestern for the 1984-1985 year was 590 verbal, 630 math.

    Wilbon's father was a laborer and did not finish high school, but his mother was a junior high school teacher and counselor.

  101. @Hail
    @Triumph104


    Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps
     

     
    According to this, his old-SAT score of 960 would put him at IQ 116, which is certainly good by any standard and supposedly the average IQ of college professors (and is, of course, at just over +2 SD for Black Americans).

    I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

     

    = IQ 129, or about +2 SD within the White American population. Both Pitts and Reed were representative of their racial population groups.

    If it is true Michael Wilbon "didn't break 1000" on the old SAT, he could still easily have an IQ in the mid 110s, which is, again, good by any standard. 990 on the old SAT equals IQ 118. The only thing that doesn't add up is the implied 700 Verbal, 290 Math...

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104, @Triumph104

    Thanks for posting that. I have used that website many times, but never checked out the pre-1974 page. I’m not sure how to interpret that in conjunction with the 1974-1995 table though. Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT I see no major change in average score from 1973-1975. I also see no mention of a change in the SAT test scoring in that timeframe. However, the pre-1974 table differs dramatically from the 1974-1995 table at the lower end of the score range. 1280 is 133 IQ on both, but 702 is IQ 100 on the old table while 700 is IQ 77 on the newer table.

    The paper underlying the pre-1974 table is available at Libgen with DOI 10.1002/j.2164-4918.1962.tb02298.x
    The paper states: “The data are based upon a sample of 403 students who visited the Office of Guidance and Testing at Georgia Institute of Technology during the years of 1957-1960.”

    Because it is based on a selected sample (i.e. those admitted to college in 1957-1960!) I don’t trust that pre-1974 table to accurately convert low scores. I also fail to see the justification for distinguishing pre and post 1974 SAT scores.

    What do you think?

    P.S. If anyone wants to dig into pre-1974 scores, this paper contains PSAT based score norming data from 1960, 1966, and 1974: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2333-8504.1976.tb01113.x/pdf

  102. @Hail
    @Triumph104


    Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps
     

     
    According to this, his old-SAT score of 960 would put him at IQ 116, which is certainly good by any standard and supposedly the average IQ of college professors (and is, of course, at just over +2 SD for Black Americans).

    I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

     

    = IQ 129, or about +2 SD within the White American population. Both Pitts and Reed were representative of their racial population groups.

    If it is true Michael Wilbon "didn't break 1000" on the old SAT, he could still easily have an IQ in the mid 110s, which is, again, good by any standard. 990 on the old SAT equals IQ 118. The only thing that doesn't add up is the implied 700 Verbal, 290 Math...

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104, @Triumph104

    Good catch. I didn’t reread the article and had forgotten that Pitts started college at age 15 and took the pre-1974 SAT. I have the 1985 edition of Lovejoy’s College Guide and the average SAT score at USC then (1984-1985) was 475 verbal and 535 math. So Pitts’ pre-1974 score of 960 was most likely above average for the university during his time. It almost makes me wonder what Reed was doing there. Full-ride scholarship? Around 1988 or 1989, Junior Seau was admitted to USC with a combined SAT score of 690, but that is a different story.

    Pitts and I made the mistake of thinking his 960 score was equivalent to a latter version.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @Triumph104

    USC standing has improved dramatically since the 1970s, through a lot of fund raising for endowed chairs, salaries, facilities, scholarships and similar assets. They also benefitted from the increased competition to enroll in UCs such as Berkeley, UCLA and other campuses, so thereby improving in particular the lower half of their classes markedly, according to some instructors. They said that the days of "pay your fee, buy a degree" are long over.

  103. @Hail
    @Triumph104


    Leonard Pitts, Jr. (born 1957) is a journalist and Pulitzer Prize winner and graduate of the University of Southern California..

    As I recall, I scored 960 on my SAT. This was good enough for second best in my class and many congratulations and backslaps
     

     
    According to this, his old-SAT score of 960 would put him at IQ 116, which is certainly good by any standard and supposedly the average IQ of college professors (and is, of course, at just over +2 SD for Black Americans).

    I get to talking with my roommate, this white guy named Reed, about our SAT scores. Reed’s kind of sheepish, finally confessing that he scored “only” about 1200.

     

    = IQ 129, or about +2 SD within the White American population. Both Pitts and Reed were representative of their racial population groups.

    If it is true Michael Wilbon "didn't break 1000" on the old SAT, he could still easily have an IQ in the mid 110s, which is, again, good by any standard. 990 on the old SAT equals IQ 118. The only thing that doesn't add up is the implied 700 Verbal, 290 Math...

    Replies: @res, @Triumph104, @Triumph104

    Michael Wilbon graduated from high school in 1976 and Northwestern in 1980. Since people didn’t do much, if any, prep for the SAT in those days, I can’t see any reason why he would have taken the pre-1974 SAT. A 990 on the 1974-1995 version would mean an IQ of 105. http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx

    The average SAT score for Northwestern for the 1984-1985 year was 590 verbal, 630 math.

    Wilbon’s father was a laborer and did not finish high school, but his mother was a junior high school teacher and counselor.

  104. @Triumph104
    @Hail

    Good catch. I didn't reread the article and had forgotten that Pitts started college at age 15 and took the pre-1974 SAT. I have the 1985 edition of Lovejoy's College Guide and the average SAT score at USC then (1984-1985) was 475 verbal and 535 math. So Pitts' pre-1974 score of 960 was most likely above average for the university during his time. It almost makes me wonder what Reed was doing there. Full-ride scholarship? Around 1988 or 1989, Junior Seau was admitted to USC with a combined SAT score of 690, but that is a different story.

    Pitts and I made the mistake of thinking his 960 score was equivalent to a latter version.

    Replies: @Ivy

    USC standing has improved dramatically since the 1970s, through a lot of fund raising for endowed chairs, salaries, facilities, scholarships and similar assets. They also benefitted from the increased competition to enroll in UCs such as Berkeley, UCLA and other campuses, so thereby improving in particular the lower half of their classes markedly, according to some instructors. They said that the days of “pay your fee, buy a degree” are long over.

  105. @Questionator
    We must assume that his scores have been remembered and reported accurately in that tweet. A high verbal makes for a good story in his case, as does a big split with the math.

    Replies: @Questionator, @SFG, @Taco, @Olorin

    I have always found the configuration and distribution of this sort of split more interesting than the scores themselves.

    Someone scoring 760 math and 500 verbal would be considered a sort of autistic savant. Good for counting and measuring things, but not really a human worth paying attention to, being lesser able to translate thoughts into something other humans could relate to.

    In this case we likely have a highly verbally facile person…without much of interest to say on any substantive topic, since 500 math indicates a pedestrian, non-analytical factual mind.

    This is precisely the sort of person for whom the Grievance Cathedragogue was invented. They can bash on about whatever victimization meme is au courant…its facts never need be vetted…and the more they talk, the more notice they get. Particularly as they are peddled to an even less verbally facile mass of audience members (who are also quant idiots).

    This is a very Jewish form of intelligence judging from the various places I’ve observed it up close and daily. It always struck me as highly talmudic–lots of commentary on very little text, very little fact whatever behind the text, and zero process for adjudicating the latter and erasing falsehoods from the text, never mind the commentary.

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