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Libertarian Utopia Achieved: Drug Arrests Plummet Since 2018
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Drug arrests in 2021 have been running at a rate barely half of that seen in 2018, so all the good things predicted by libertarian economists have happened, right?

Well, drug overdose deaths hit 100,000, but crime is down right?

Some crimes are down, at least reported ones. Motor vehicle theft is usually well-reported for insurance reasons, and it’s way up since the racial reckoning riots began in late May 2020:

Do you ever wonder if encouraging masked men to roam the streets might be negating the beneficial effects of all those security cameras that are now everywhere?

And homicides, also reasonably well-counted, are way up during the Second Black Lives Matter era:

This is from the quarterly report (PDF):

Pandemic, Social Unrest, and Crime in U.S. Cities
September 2021 Update
RICHARD ROSENFELD
Curators’ Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Criminology and
Criminal Justice, University of Missouri – St. Louis
ERNESTO LOPEZ
Research Specialist, Council on Criminal Justice

 
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  1. Libertarianism only works with a certain population. George Washington was free to use an opium tincture. He didn’t get addicted. I don’t know how common problems were with opium in America back in the 1800s but apparently most people used it responsibly.

    Blacks would have had severe limitations on getting it.

    Sometime around 1914 it was made illegal. You can guess why. Pot was made illegal in the 1930s because of fears of Mexicans and Blacks using it. You know, “racism”.

    So, as we become a more multiracial society, libertarian dreams are gone forever.

  2. Luzzatto says:

    Even though Florida is the gateway for drugs coming into The U.S from Latin America, I’ve never seen people shoot heroin and smoke crack out in the open public for everyone to see whenever I am in Florida. But in California I see it all the time. But than again I do not venture into the 3rd World parts of Florida. But in California I see open hard drug use in places that are suppose to be the 1st World parts of California, you know the tourist areas.

  3. Enough drug users fatally OD, crime will eventually go down.

  4. Few substances were controlled at all in the 19th century. Was horse theft a major problem? Did the staunch libertarian Rose Wilder Lane edit that from mom Laura’s manuscripts?

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    , @siv
  5. PaceLaw says:

    The main reason crime is down now is because liberal prosecutors have stopped charging broad categories of crimes. For example, in San Francisco shoplifting is apparently now legal, and in Baltimore most drug offenses and misdemeanors, such as punching someone in the face, aren’t even charged. It’s almost as if these progressive prosecutors had a pro-crime/anarchist agenda that they wanted to push through. Looks like they succeeded.

    • Replies: @Luzzatto
    , @J.Ross
  6. zacie says:

    Now that COVID cases are exploding again, can we get a Stevie Scared update? Surely the COVID panic (and its enablers on the right) are responsible for this uptick in crime and general social dissatisfaction?

    • Replies: @Travis
    , @Libre
  7. And all other variables have been held constant, of course.

    Right?

    Sure. Talk about your no-reproducible experiments.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  8. Luzzatto says:
    @PaceLaw

    In old Alfred Hitchcock films like Vertigo for example, the streets of San Francisco look as clean as Seoul and Singapore. Now San Francisco is one of the dirtiest cities in the world.

  9. notsaying says:

    Too bad all the libertarian Utopias exist only in libertarans’ heads.

    • Replies: @Luzzatto
    , @Muggles
    , @TWS
  10. Rob McX says:
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    So, as we become a more multiracial society, libertarian dreams are gone forever.

    But the Rand-worshipping libspergtarians will never admit that. The “free market” can still cure all our ills, according the them. They got a boner listening to Reagan’s homilies against “big government” and how it compared unfavourably to big business. Now you’ve got both big business and big government working together to screw the American people.

    • Agree: AnotherDad, TWS
  11. Steve Sailer:

    “Well, drug overdose deaths hit 100,000, but crime is down right?”

    Translation: “Let’s outlaw drugs and suppress freedom because some people are too stupid to use drugs responsibly and kill themselves in overdoses.”

    Far more people have died from car accidents by driving too fast and recklessly than from drug overdoses. Should we outlaw cars, too?

    Also, WTF has this got to do with liberatarianism? Most people dying from opiate overdoses are politically conservative, and the masked men breeaking things are ANTIFA, which is a neo-Marxist movement.

    So how are drugs OD to blame on libertarians, since the people dying are mostly social conservatives from Red States with socially conservative values and not libertarian values? How are these drug overdoses to blame on libertarianism since America already has some of the most Draconian anti-drug laws in the World? Please explain? In fact, that so many people are dying from drug ODs is an indictment *against* Prohibition, since what is being done is clearly not working. Of course, like a conservative, you are probably going to argue that this indicates that we need even MORE Draconian laws. I take a different view. Like Albert Einstein once said:

    “The best definition of insanity is to always do the same thing and expect a different result each time.”

    America’s Puritanical, Draconian anti-drug laws clearly don’t work, except to boost the prison population and sap the wealth of the tax payer. They haven’s worked since the conservative, Richard Nixon, enacted his “War On Drugs” way back in 1972, and for almost 50 years it hasn’t worked. It’s just an appeal to Church Ladies and bored house wives that the Federal Government is “doing something” to stop the “drug epidemic”, when it;s all for show and to get votes.

    Contrary to what many people on Unz think, the Federal Government was always notoriously more conservative and square than both local and state governments. The D.E.A(narco swine), is a Federal Agency. So is the F..B.I, which back in the 1960’s fully supported McCarthism and all the arrests in the name of fighting Communism. Even to this day, Federal Agencies are notoriously conservative, square and old-fashioned. The film “The Matrix” captures perfectly the dress, mannerisms and demenour of F.B.I agents in their portrayal of Agent Smith and his cronies. The stern, ultra-square, by-the-book demeanour and dress of Feds is captured perfectly.

    As for the people breaking stuff in the streets, they certainly don’t adhere to libertarian values. Libertarianism clearly is opposed to *initiation of force* which the neo-Marxist(non-libertarian) protesters are doing.

  12. Luzzatto says:
    @notsaying

    The Libertarian Party Presidential Primary Debates on CSPAN are Babylon Bee level comedic relief. 100% pure unmixed Libertarians making the case that it should be legal to drive without without a license, it should be legal to drive without a seat belt, it should be legal to drive while you are high and or drunk, and it should be legal to drive and text at the same time in a truly free society.

  13. Luzzatto says:
    @Rob McX

    The Bay Area is just as equally a threat to The 1st Amendment as Washington DC is.

  14. Altai says:

    So the 2021 winter US homicide rate is now about as high (Maybe higher as 2019 was a most violent year) as the post-Ferguson pre-Floyd summer homicide peak.

    All the blueticks on Twitter will exclaim that they don’t notice this because this level of gun violence is only associated with really bad black ghettos and blueticks don’t live near enough to those. To them crime is overall down.

    • Replies: @Luzzatto
    , @Old Prude
  15. @Luzzatto

    Please stop confusing Libertarian and libertarian.

    It’s an embarrassing tell.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  16. Hhsiii says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    They shot horse thieves, didn’t they?

  17. Hhsiii says:
    @Luzzatto

    Well, driving without a seat belt is a bit different than the other 3 (high, texting, no license).

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
  18. PaceLaw says:
    @Luzzatto

    Yep, which just goes to show that liberals/progressives are really just anarchists in disguise. Baltimore was never as beautiful as San Francisco, but now increasingly many white people don’t even want to venture into the city because of the “squeegee boys“ who aggressively panhandle and/or assault people as they enter the city (just like the fictional trolls of yore). Of course, the black prosecutor for Baltimore has now made these type of actions far too common as she is reluctant to press charges against the (black) miscreants. https://foxbaltimore.com/amp/news/local/bruised-bloodied-alleged-attack-squeegee-kid-woman-injured-baltimore

  19. I know throwing the border gates wide open is not official policy … yet … but this pales with the “success” of that libertarian talking point.

    Maybe we need to require libertarians to take in migrants and drug addicts as boarders.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  20. @Rob McX

    Yeah, Rob, but the mistake is not in believing free markets work (they do), but in thinking Big Business has anything to do with creating free markets. They don’t. Big Biz and Big Gov work hand-in-hand to make laws that are good for Big Biz and Big Gov.

  21. Mexican drug Cartels tend to clamp down on drugs in their own home areas. That should tell you all you need to know.

  22. Luzzatto says:
    @Altai

    An Asian baby in Oakland recently died from a stray bullet because he was unfortunately caught
    in the middle of a crossfire involving jogger gang bangers shooting at each other.

    I bet the Democrats will blame the tragic death of the Asian baby in Oakland on xenophobic White Supremacists who believe all Asians are responsible for Covid.

    • Agree: Charon
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Altai
  23. Anon[271] • Disclaimer says:

    Mexican labs are adding benzos and mdma (ecstasy) to the fentanyl-fake heroin now because it is more euphoric and heroin-like. The benzos (like Xanax) chemically inhibit narcan however, so when someone ODs on it, we cannot reverse it with narcan. They are doomed if they get a hot shot now.

  24. @Anon

    So far, nobody has put fentanyl or other designer drugs into alcohol, so stick to that until further notice.

  25. dtier says:

    no black arrests plummeted.

  26. @Steve Sailer

    So far, nobody has put fentanyl or other designer drugs into alcohol, so stick to that until further notice.

    Sure, but only if you know the source. Mixed drinks in bars? Could be risky…

    OTOH, recreation drug use seems like Russian roulette these days:

    https://nypost.com/2021/11/18/connecticut-officials-warn-of-fentanyl-laced-marijuana-after-overdoses/

  27. Dman says:
    @Anon

    Time to grab the Flumazenil!

  28. Feryl says:
    @Anon

    I read a detailed article about hard drug trends which said that the danger of oding was part of the thrill, since that meant the drugs were really potent. Hell, even pot is 10X stronger thant what it was in the 60’s because after all, dealers want their clients to get hooked faster and users typically want to get as high as possible.

    Honestly, though, the US underclass is in really, really rough shape. No decent job prospects after 50 years of:
    – deindustrialization (with Aff. Action further depleting opportunities for white guys)
    – mergers/acquisitions
    – no real social support network (people were much more likely to report having multiple close friends in the 80’s)
    – hometowns over-run by blacks, immigrants, and/or glib white/Asian transplants (two of my newer neighbors are Illinois refugees)
    – no wholesome pop culture icons
    – an economy and tax system blatantly against lower earners
    – and let’s not forget dysgenics either

    Let’s also not forget that the media and cultural elites have completely soured on huge swathes of America, and that includes honest and hard working blue collar non-whites (you don’t “support” black or Mexicans by refusing to prosecute criminals). Back in the Reagan era the (correct) perception was that typically young criminals were destroying the peace and quiet sought by Normies, particularly older people. Nowadays the morons in charge whine about the “school to prison pipeline” and don’t give a crap what the average person thinks (and by average I mean older people not Gen Z Idiocrats, given that the mean age of the population is not 16).

    • Agree: notsaying
  29. Something I’ve been hearing about lately is DoorDash theft.

    Someone logs on to the app to fulfill a DoorDash or an UberEats order, then they abscond with the food and eat it themselves. The company supplies a refund to the ripped off customers and nobody is ever prosecuted. I guess this is what a lot of people at the lower end of the economy are doing food nowadays, especially since inflation has started to hit hard. You can expect more of this kind of thing.

    This is going to spell the end of the ridiculous gig economy. It is neither safe nor economical to have random, unvetted people delivering food in their own vehicles. These fragmented quasi-jobs never should have existed. But we’ve gotten into the bad habit of treating everything as if it were so cheap and abundant that ordinary precautions are not worth bothering about. That fact that we don’t even prosecute shoplifting and petty crime is all part of the same c’est la vie attitude.

    Don’t worry that this is a permanent trend that will drift forever in the same direction. It’s all going to change, and change hard, once the economic damage becomes unignorable.

  30. Feryl says:

    Anecdotally I’ve now smelled the lingering stench of pot in a decent number of stores/restaurants/parking lots/public social gatherings out in the suburbs over the last couple years. This could also be due to the Gen Z population being more black than previous generations in this area (blacks have always been more into the reefer than whites, part of 60’s counter culture lore was that normie whites feared uninhibited blacks who had less taboos regarding drug use). But I also know that prior to circa 2019 I almost never smelled pot in these areas, stoners stuck to doing it in their basement.

    Also, lately I’ve noticed that a lot of infantile male Gen Z-ers wear sweat pants in public and keep their hoods up indoors. Especially the black ones. The effect is more one of social and emotional retardation than menace (these aren’t the swaggering and glowering youths of the 1990’s). Earth to Gen X, this idea of being “friends” with your kids rather than imposing values on them (which your kids as they age will grow to appreciate) is really working out well isn’t it? Those hated “Boomers” who taught their kids manners, who spanked their kids for poor conduct, and made them do yard work (actual enforced results, not just letting them goof off and pretend to work) had it wrong, huh?

  31. Mike Tre says:

    “Do you ever wonder if encouraging masked men to roam the streets might be negating the beneficial effects of all those security cameras that are now everywhere?”

    So now masks are a BAD Thing? Anyway – the heyjackass page on Odysee (he’s banned on yt of course) posts the CCTV footage of a lot of the more high profile shootings from Chicago, and zooms in on the faces of the shooters. All the recent ones are from the corona age and none of the shooters are wearing masks.

  32. AndrewR says:
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    George Washington died during the last month of the 1700s.

    John Adams and Thomas Jefferson lived more than 26 years afterwards, both bizarrely dying on July 4th, 1826 (which was, of course, also the fiftieth anniversary of the declaration of independence).

    In other odd coincidences, my dad was born on Hitler’s fiftieth birthday and my brother was born on the 50th of George Soros. I was born on Michael Jackson’s 25th

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
  33. Gamecock says:

    Drug arrests in 2021 have been running at a rate barely half of that seen in 2018, so all the good things predicted by libertarian economists have happened, right?

    Don’t be a neocon, iSteve. Drugs have not be legalized.

  34. AndrewR says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    Antifa adheres to the NAP, but they think that the existence of white people who don’t want their grandkids to be transgendered mulattos who get raped by and eternally endebted to Jews constitutes a violation of the NAP

  35. AndrewR says:
    @Hhsiii

    Driving without a seatbelt endangers other people, especially if there is a passenger in the front.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
  36. @Luzzatto

    Have you been to Bombay or Lagos?

    I promise you San Francisco ain’t even in the top 50.

  37. @Steve Sailer

    Red Bull and vodka is pretty powerful. I add protein mix to it so I can feel healthy and stronger.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  38. Travis says:
    @zacie

    Still waiting for Steve to start promoting the boosters so we can get back to normal and stop forcing kids to wear masks. We now know the vaccine efficacy collapses after 6 months, Pfizer has concluded that boosters are required for everyone to prevent hospitalizations and the FDA agrees. Yet Steve has been strangely silent about the boosters in contrast to his many posts advocating the vaccines with his detailed posts about their 95% efficacy and how we could get back to normal if only everyone was vaccinated. Yet Europe is lockdown again despite 85% of European adults being vaccinated. The goalposts has been moved again….two weeks to stop the spread, 100 days of masking….it will end when 70% are vaccinated….it will only end when 95% are triple vaccinated….etc…

  39. Travis says:

    To be fair the libertarians want full legalization of drugs. If drugs were legal , like booze, the cartels would be destroyed and addicts would have access to safer drugs without taking the risk of ingesting dangerous levels of fentanyl in their heroin, oxytocin and meth. Legalizing drugs would increase the number of addicts and it would be safer, with less risk of overdosing.

    The current system of drug enforcement just makes the cartels wealthier and makes the drugs more toxic and dangerous to the users. Legalization would enable Americans to purchase legal oxytocin, cocaine and methamphetamine at the local drug store. Big pharma would reap the profits instead of the cartels. But our government would probably tax it so much that the black market would survive. The cartels today are able to supply opioids and methamphetamine so efficiently they cost less than tobacco in many states. In Philadelphia you can buy a bag of smack for \$5 while a pack of cigarettes is \$10. If they legalized drugs in Pennsylvania a bag of heroin would probably triple in price due to high taxes and the greed of big pharma.

    • Replies: @Gamecock
    , @Jay Fink
  40. AndrewR says:
    @Luzzatto

    Uh obviously they will.

    https://www.colorado.edu/asmagazine/2021/04/08/white-supremacy-root-race-related-violence-united-states

    “Dems are the real racists” is often overused by normiecons, but it’s 100% true. In order to believe what this dog-torturing “professor” claims, you would have to view black people as literal infants, if not completely subhuman.

    Meanwhile we “white supremacists” believe that blacks have agency and that they choose to do good or bad things just like all other humans do.

  41. @Hhsiii

    Only under the assumption that the beltless driver pays for ALL of his medical/funeral expenses out-of-pocket when injured/killed in a car crash on the one hand. On the other hand, a non-belt user dying in a crash is usually someone who might better be omitted from the gene pool.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
  42. @Feryl

    Why do non-idiotic people use drugs at all?

    I can understand Stone-agers who wanted to get stoned to escape the misery of incredibly harsh life; the same with peasants or vagabonds in China or in Bolivia hundreds of years ago.

    But, the 20th-21st C, modern West… this is beyond me.

    Life is against me? Society demonizes my kind?

    Boohooo… grow a pair & fight back.

    • Replies: @Rob
    , @Yngvar
  43. @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    Well the Libertarian ideology calls for open borders to all populations. If you oppose importing millions of third worlders then you’re a collectivist.

    It also calls for the complete deregulation of the pharmaceutical industry so they can create new drugs that are even more destructive than meth and heroin.

    They also want to completely eliminate gun laws and allow Black felons to buy fully automatic weapons.

    George Washington would have thought the whole thing is stupid.

  44. J.Ross says:
    @PaceLaw

    Was it Bolshevik domestic state terror? Was it South Asian blithe and incompetant number juggling? What’s the difference? Republicans will do nothing (besides of course celebrating the McMichael* guilty verdict).
    ——————-
    *Remember, children, what do we say to the dog-shooting witch-finding riot-observing burglary-cheering rape-enabling arsonist-releasing pig? “[Nothing]” or “Lawyer.”

  45. Mr. Anon says:

    Small “L” Libertarians often provide a useful critique of government power. But as a governing philosophy, libertarianism is as misguided as Marxism. It requires most people to be other than they actually are. It only works after the advent of New Libertarian Man.

    • Agree: Rob McX, Captain Tripps
    • Disagree: Muggles
  46. @Steve Sailer

    Exactly. The legal drugs remain of higher quality. One of the reasons street drugs are so toxic is because they are not regulated. If Drugs were legal they would be less deadly and consumers would know what they were taking. During prohibition alcohol was basically decriminalized, no punishment was imposed on users. But the quality of the booze was poor and often unsafe due to wood alcohol (methanol) being sold as alcohol.

    • Agree: J.Ross
    • Replies: @Jim
  47. nebulafox says:
    @Luzzatto

    Sadly, it is worse than that.

    In Southeast Asia, there are still some countries that have urban slums with levels of poverty beyond the imagination of Americans. Yet I still found them cleaner-when adjusted for infrastructure levels and whatnot-than much of San Francisco or the area underneath I-5 in Seattle. No open drug markets, no public defecation, people cleaning the ramshackle roads as best they could, and a degree of public order and functioning institutions (usually religious-Buddhist, Catholic, or Muslim, depending on the country). I’m not romanticizing the slums, obviously, but this really should be something Americans are ashamed of. Baltimore’s life expectancy in many neighborhood is less than North Korea’s.

    On a broader level, I do think there is a major difference between the Americas in general and Asia here. The slums in the Philippines and Indonesia are *much* poorer than those in Brazil or Mexico, but they are also a lot safer, provided you employ the common sense you’d use as a 1st Worlder in any developing country.

  48. Muggles says:
    @notsaying

    Too bad all the libertarian Utopias exist only in libertarans’ heads.

    As opposed to all the other Utopias that we see around the world…

  49. Muggles says:
    @Rob McX

    Yes, you seem to blame “libertarians” for the nation’s wrong turns yet I can’t name a single actual libertarian holding any kind of public office.

    Nor can I find any billionaires of the media owning class (or anywhere else) who call themselves libertarians.

    Blaming notional libertarians is like blaming purple unicorns.

    First you have to find one.

    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    , @John Johnson
  50. Muggles says:
    @The Alarmist

    Maybe we need to require libertarians to take in migrants and drug addicts as boarders.

    While in obscure writings or debates there is (or was, years ago) some debate about open borders, there are no well known American libertarians who advocate open borders. Of course anyone can claim to be a libertarian.

    Former Congressman Ron Paul, long time GOP representative and once the Libertarian Party’s presidential candidate (1988) did not favor open borders. Nor does that position appear in the LP’s platform.

    No libertarians have had anything to do with the current Biden/Harris flood of illegals.

    But by all means, feel free to blame libertarians for these problems. Scapegoating is popular with hopelessly depressed do-nothings. You apparently know the secret “libertarian mafia” that provides guidance and orders to America’s political leadership.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  51. On holidays, most national radio/TV hosts take the day off; the regular listening/viewing audience has gone fishing, anyhow. The substitute host knows that he can score a reliable, low but acceptable rating if he focuses on the sort of dull, libertarian ideas, e.g. a_p_e, that are normally not discussed (blacked out).

    Oh, and abolish the War on Drugs. Also, the government should not be allowed to flip a libertarian (i.e. less government) victory into a defeat: No pot (sin) taxes! (This whole gov bureaucrat imperative, for people to take the Covid vax, has been ridiculous: Just say no to drugs, unless we tell you that it’s OK, in which case we insist).

  52. @Zero Philosopher

    > Far more people have died from car accidents by driving too fast and recklessly than from drug overdoses. Should we outlaw cars, too?

    Lol, you might want to put down the joint, my friend.

    First off, traffic fatalities in the U.S. 2020 were 38,680, compared to 93,331 drug overdose deaths.

    Secondly, “driving too fast and recklessly” is already banned. You have heard of speeding tickets?

    Thirdly, pretty much everything about the automotive industry is heavily regulated with an eye towards safety–airbags, crumple zones, etc., as well as highway and road design and construction. All of these things saved countless lives but had to be government mandated; except in rare cases customers were not willing to pay more for safety so the free market failed to provide a solution.

    So while we haven’t banned cars, we have heavily, heavily regulated pretty much all aspects of their design and use. Because travelling at that velocity is intrinsically quite dangerous.

    I’m always amazed by the passion of the addict, and how they have zero insight into how ridiculous they sound to normal people (or how the real world actually works.)

    • Agree: Jay Fink
    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
  53. @Muggles

    While there are very few successful political figures who identify as libertarians, you can’t deny that libertarian philosophy is prevalent in both parties and underlies a lot of our current rot.

    Gay marriage
    Free trade
    decriminalization of drug use
    acceptance of deviant sexuality

    Regarding immigration, the libertarian impulse towards lax enforcement of labor laws leads to a situation where employers can make a lot of extra money by hiring illegals. Implementing E-verify would dry up the demand for illegal labor and do a lot more than a border wall to keep illegals out. I doubt Rand Paul is interested, though.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Muggles
  54. @Zero Philosopher

    > So how are drugs OD to blame on libertarians, since the people dying are mostly social conservatives from Red States with socially conservative values and not libertarian values?

    Let me spell this out for you.

    Those guys that OD don’t just buy some fentanyl using their earned wages, go into their rooms quietly and overdose. They cause a heap of trouble for normal people just trying to mind their own business. They end up in hospitals and run up medical bills that end up being paid for by normal working people. They shit in the streets and leave needles on the sidewalk. They waste the investment that their parents and society at large made in their lives when they were children. They do their jobs poorly and make mistakes that harm other people in ways large and small. Most of the stuff they do doesn’t rise to the level of a crime but is nonetheless incredibly corrosive to society.

    Libertarians like you are a problem because you advocate for legal regimes that allow people like this to indulge their vices, and in the process they harm not only themselves but everyone around them.

    • Agree: TWS, Kylie
  55. TWS says:
    @notsaying

    The one saving virtue of libertarianism is that it has never been tried. Just watching the diaper wearing, stoned out of their gourds, clowns on television is enough for most people to realize it’s pure contrarianism. If they didn’t hold dick measuring contests to see how lethal the weaponized small pox they would encourage five year olds to carry in their lunchbox or who would keep the bigger nuke in their garage, they wouldn’t have anything worth listening to.

    Fortunately, it never will be tried. Can you imagine the jackass down the street who shoots at the mice in his attic with artillery? Chemical weapons? Nukes?

    No thanks. It’s a non starter from the beginning.

    • Agree: notsaying
  56. @Zero Philosopher

    …since America already has some of the most Draconian anti-drug laws in the World?

    Are you sure about this? This is recreational pot:

    And medical:

    Perhaps you’re thinking of Thalidomide.

  57. @SimpleSong

    “Lol, you might want to put down the joint, my friend.”

    I am not your friend, and I have never smoked marijuana in my life. Just because I defend personal freedom does not mean that I defend or engage in all behaviors that I think adults should be allowed to enjoy without state intervention.

    “First off, traffic fatalities in the U.S. 2020 were 38,680, compared to 93,331 drug overdose death”

    First of all, I was talking about all times, and not specifically any year. I highly doubt this statistic. The reported deaths from cocaine overdoses each year, according to the NIH, hovers around 5,000 deaths a year, and has been stable around those numbers since the 1990’s. It’s true that the opiate epidemic has dramatically increased the number of OD deaths, but I still find this figure extremely exagerated. I am sure that most of the reported deaths as OD are not from ODs at all, but from other complications, such as infections from using contaminated syringes, dehydration(addicts will often do days without water), and accidents from being high, like passing out and hitting your head on pavement.

    But let’s assume that I am wrong, and that these statistics are correct. My argument is still right. More people die from arteriosclerosis each year than from any other cause, and one of the primary causes of arteriosclerosis is a faulty diet. Should we outlaw junk food, sugar, hydrogenated oils, etc, because these foods taste good and people cannot control themselves and will eat these foods until they have a heart attack? The problem here is not that these things are dangerous per se, but that people are stupid and cannot moderate themselves around them. That is the issue. It is individual responability. Government prohibition never accomplishes anything. How many poeple have died from cirrosis from heavy drinking? Should we outlaw alcohol, too? Actually, we already did that, and it was an epic fail.

    “Secondly, “driving too fast and recklessly” is already banned. You have heard of speeding tickets?”

    And of course, the legal penalties for driving recklessly are much less severe than for using drugs, unless you actually run over someone and seriously maim or kill them. If you are just speeding, you get a ticket; if you are caught with a few grams of coke, you go to jail. HUGE difference.

    “Thirdly, pretty much everything about the automotive industry is heavily regulated with an eye towards safety–airbags, crumple zones, etc., as well as highway and road design and construction. All of these things saved countless lives but had to be government mandated; except in rare cases customers were not willing to pay more for safety so the free market failed to provide a solution.”

    The reason why the drug industry is not “regulated” is because it is illegal. If drugs were legal, there wouldn’t, for instance, be fentanyl mixed with cocaine, which is what actually kills most cocaine addicts and not the cocaine itself. There wouldn’t be heavy metal contaminants in meth that make the drug 1,000 X more toxic than it is, etc. It is Prohibition that makes drugs so devastating. In Canada, they give methadone to heroin addicts and the amount of drug overdoses has declined dramatically. Same for meth addicts, who are given methylphenidate. You know nothing.

    “So while we haven’t banned cars, we have heavily, heavily regulated pretty much all aspects of their design and use. Because travelling at that velocity is intrinsically quite dangerous.”

    And using drugs at 10 X the normal amounts, especially when it is contaminated, is intrinsically quite dangerous. This is why drugs should be regulated like pharmaceuticals and the car industry. Using 20 mg of amphetamine orally is much less dangerous than driving your car at 160 mp/h. I know this because my cousin has been taking Adderall for ADHD at thoae doses for 10 years, and he is extremely healthy.

    “I’m always amazed by the passion of the addict, and how they have zero insight into how ridiculous they sound to normal people (or how the real world actually works.)”

    You know nothing, you have no insight, and are basically just spewing pathetic arguments that have been debunked a long time ago. All you have is using ad hominem invective saying that I am an addict. I am not. ut you are an ignoramus.

    • Troll: TWS, Captain Tripps
  58. anon[307] • Disclaimer says:

    remember how high the murder rate was during prohibition mein steve?

    https://www.americanthinker.com/legacy_assets/articles/assets/Murders%201.bmp

    The repeal of Prohibition in the United States was accomplished with the passage of the Twenty-first Amendment to the United States Constitution on December 5, 1933.

    libertarians have autism, but they’re partially right about drugs. every user would prefer a government run or regulated dispensary because cheaper and safer than anything which could be obtained otherwise. the war on drugs is a failure. the supply can’t be stopped. and addiction is caused by more than just the drug. johann hari has written on this. switzerland is as libertarian as european states come and this is the strategy it has adopted. and it’s working. addicts are quitting when they have a cheap safe source and help with all of their other issues.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @Reg Cæsar
  59. @SimpleSong

    While there are very few successful political figures who identify as libertarians, you can’t deny that libertarian philosophy is prevalent in both parties and underlies a lot of our current rot.

    Gay marriage

    The state has no business in a Christian sacrament. I blame William Bradford for that. Officiating at the first wedding in Plymouth, he explicitly stated he was acting as a magistrate and not as a man of the cloth.

    It was almost 1900 before Spain instituted civil marriage.

    Free trade

    One could defend the old embargo on China on libertarian grounds. The product of slave labor rightfully belongs to the slave.

    decriminalization of drug use

    People are still bitching about the 21st Amendment!

    acceptance of deviant sexuality

    E.g., remarriage after divorce.

  60. @Muggles

    I’ve seen libertarian arguments on both sides of the argument.

    You might want to read Cato Institute’s thoughts on why waves of illegal migrants are not an invasion (“They want to be us, not conquer us.”), and enlighten us to how this is not an apologia pro migrantium from a major voice identified with the libertarian movement:

    https://www.cato.org/commentary/illegal-immigration-isnt-invasion

    Sure they aren’t advocating directly for total immigration liberalisation, but they really aren’t speaking out against open borders, and the argumentation they make suggests they have no problem with it.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @Muggles
  61. @Reg Cæsar

    Perhaps you’re thinking of Thalidomide.

    Now do Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  62. siv says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Prohibition (of all sorts of property) didn’t begin until the Progressive Era. 15 states even banned cigarettes in the late 19th/Early 20th century Before that people were assumed to be responsible, or at least responsible for the consequence of their actions. Narcotic drug prohibition followed and was part of international agreements mandated by treaty. The progressives wanted top down control over people, much as they still do. I fail to understand why most “conservatives” want to conserve progressive policies so hard. Particularly progressivism of the internationalist variety.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  63. @Muggles

    Yes, you seem to blame “libertarians” for the nation’s wrong turns yet I can’t name a single actual libertarian holding any kind of public office.

    Numerous Republicans identify as libertarian.

    But more importantly the belief of Free Markets above all comes from libertarians.

    As does the belief that all drugs should be legalized.

    Nor can I find any billionaires of the media owning class (or anywhere else) who call themselves libertarians.

    Peter Thiel.

    Charles Koch.

    Not that hard.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  64. @The Alarmist

    You might want to read Cato Institute’s thoughts on why waves of illegal migrants are not an invasion (“They want to be us, not conquer us.”), and enlighten us to how this is not an apologia pro migrantium from a major voice identified with the libertarian movement:

    Ah yes, the same Cato that told us immigrants wouldn’t necessarily vote Democrat.

    Sure they aren’t advocating directly for total immigration liberalisation, but they really aren’t speaking out against open borders, and the argumentation they make suggests they have no problem with it.

    They still support open borders. Libertarians realize it isn’t a popular position and no longer advertise it.

    They leave the open borders advocacy to the US Chamber of Commerce. It’s a libertarian lobby that pretends to be a government department.

  65. @anon

    libertarians have autism, but they’re partially right about drugs. every user would prefer a government run or regulated dispensary because cheaper and safer than anything which could be obtained otherwise. the war on drugs is a failure. the supply can’t be stopped.

    China and Singapore both ended their opium addictions.

    It is a libertarian lie that drugs cannot be controlled. The problem is that our government is filled with deluded egalitarians that don’t want to face reality.

    SF has tried to tolerate drugs and it only made the problem worse.

    Society will not be improved by selling PCP in stores.

  66. Muggles says:
    @SimpleSong

    you can’t deny that libertarian philosophy is prevalent in both parties and underlies a lot of our current rot.

    Gay marriage
    Free trade
    decriminalization of drug use
    acceptance of deviant sexuality

    I can deny that aside from a handful of Republicans, there are very few politicians of any stripe who openly say they are libertarian. None in the Democrat Party. So you believe in the “hidden hand” of the all powerful libertarian mafia? I wish…

    The ideas you cite are good ones, Gay marriage was not pioneered in the USA and has created no problems. Divorce lawyers love it. Homosexuality existed before that, you know.

    Free trade, a classic “conservative” view (though often ignored). A staple of mainstream economics, as opposed to State/Insider “managed trade.” Trump was able to level somewhat the playing field of certain prior government negotiated “trade treaties” which were normally set to benefit special interests.

    Drug use decriminalization (for adults) again wasn’t pioneered here and has not been a factor in drug usage. When you can buy drugs in nearly all high security prisons, do you think maybe ending Black Market incentives for sale/distribution might be a good idea? Or are you a total Prohibitionist? Drug Cartels are the new Mafia, only much bigger and located in Mexico, etc.

    There is nothing in libertarian ideology/philosophy that argues for “accepting” any particular sexual behaviors. Libertarians don’t support criminalizing what adults do in the privacy of their own homes. Neither does practically anyone else. Or are you part of the Taliban wing of the Sailer commentariat? (The Taliban by the way, does turn a blind eye to some things like underage sex, which libertarians normally oppose.)

    “The government which governs least, governs best.”

    • LOL: TWS
  67. Muggles says:
    @The Alarmist

    Sure they aren’t advocating directly for total immigration liberalisation, but they really aren’t speaking out against open borders, and the argumentation they make suggests they have no problem with it.

    Who says the Cato Institute dictates what “libertarians” think or advocate. It is mainly funded by the Koch Brothers (now only Charles) who for the past 12 years has moved towards the left. They employ some libertarians but aren’t free of billionaire control. (That’s the only billionaires who have ever funded any libertarian projects or organizations.)

    Even your statement is wishy-washy.

    Not making open disagreement isn’t the same as advocating something.

    I don’t speak for the Cato Institute and they don’t speak for all libertarians. This outfit now is viewed very skeptically by mainstream libertarians, though they do often support actual libertarian ideas.

    The only reason why Cato is so often cited is that there are virtually no other libertarian organizations who can afford to pay large staffs of think tankers, etc.

    This is the all powerful libertarian movement you want to blame for the intellectual crap hole America has become.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  68. @siv

    I fail to understand why most “conservatives” want to conserve progressive policies so hard.

    When I condemn our civilian bombing raids in the Second World War, it’s merely to point out progressives’ own war crimes, and their ever-present “ends-justify-the-means” attitude. For some reason, this 🚾es a lot of these “conservatives” off.

    But the buck stops with Frankie and Harry, doesn’t it?

  69. @Muggles

    I don’t speak for the Cato Institute and they don’t speak for all libertarians.

    It’s good practice to use libertarian only as an adjective, not as a noun. The same goes with liberal, conservative, and populist. (Is there anything more liberal, or conservative, or populist, than the Bill of Rights?)

    Words such as racist and socialist, which have been stretched far beyond any legitimate meaning they may ever have had, should be dropped entirely. If you feel a need to discuss them, or are in an argument with someone, there is always a more specific and accurate word to describe such phenomenon.

    E.g., Lincoln and Hitler were both racists. Are we equating them? Perhaps you’d like to use a word that doesn’t fit them both?

  70. @The Alarmist

    Now do Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine.

    It’s too easy to confuse the latter with hydroquinone, which makes people of diminished color.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  71. @Reg Cæsar

    I’m surprised they haven’t banned an obviously White Supremacist treatment like that.

  72. Anonymous[950] • Disclaimer says:

    Perhaps the massive, semi-organized upsurge in feral negro activity is related to the willful lack of drug enforcement, since negroes jonesing for fentanyl know that stripping a Nordstroms and selling the goods on eBay and Craigslist is the most direct route to Negro Nirvana.

    In fact, they just stripped yet ANOTHER Nordstom’s, with our strategically goofy police artificially out of ideas regarding what to do about the masses of cars congregating at the same location for 10 minutes, while the accompanying dumb primitives execute their childishly planned event:

    https://abc7.com/smash-and-grab-topanga-mall-robbery-nordstrom-canoga-park/11268844/

  73. Altai says:
    @Luzzatto

    The geography of the city is such that there is nowhere to move out to, lots of points of contact. I keep seeing reports of upper middle class areas getting burgled in broad daylight regularly there.

    I can’t imagine the stress or sense of unease, which is likely doubled for status-obsessed people like the professional classes in San Fran. But despite things having become unlivable in terms of rent and accommodation long ago, all these companies insists in putting their HQ in that city. Presumably it’s because there is a ‘talent pool’ there.

    Imagine if one of these guys worked out you could just train up ordinary people to do IT jobs like they had to in the 70s and 80s and just relocate anywhere. Bonus of having a nice homogeneous staff who had high trust and motivation at work and feel connected to their local community.

  74. @anon

    remember how high the murder rate was during prohibition mein steve?

    That chart doesn’t track with Prohibition so much as with immigration. Just add 15-20 years to immigration policy changes to allow for the poor urchins to grow up. Same with welfare policy.

    Much common street crime went down during Prohibition, one of its few good points. Homicides likely shifted from common drinkers to rivals in smuggling. Do you have figures on that?

    • Replies: @Feryl
  75. @Anarchoproctologist

    Libertarians are suspiciously pro-highway-department, and were even back in the 1970s when their publications could be taken much more seriously. But it’s obvious that whoever owns the roads makes the rules. They don’t complain when the amusement park tells them to buckle in on the ride.

    Actually, those of a more serious libertarian bent do understand this. It just happens to be one of those faux-libertarian positions, such as elective abortion and low-wage, unpaid-for immigration, which are far more ferociously defended by non-, even anti-, libertarian types such as feminists and welfare statists. Fair-weather libertarians. They discover liberty just when they need to.

    There was a very good essay in one of the libertarian organs about 40 years ago which argued that an anarchocapitalist would be quite a bit less libertarian than what we have now. All those private individuals and organizations would set their own rules, which could be quite tough.

  76. Alrenous says: • Website

    Nice straw man bro. Arrests are not important.

    The point is decriminalization. First, it cuts off revenue to organized crime, because trafficking becomes less profitable. Second, it drives down use, because you can no longer signal how hard and edgy you are by smoking a harmless leaf. Portugal already verified these claims. The raw number of arrests are entirely orthogonal to either of these mechanisms. There are others, though they work the same way so I’m skipping them for brevity.

    A fortiori: if they were genuine about defunding the police I would be onside for defunding the police. As Saint Rittens showed, the law-abiding have better aim than criminals. If you defunded the police, citizens would defend themselves, but there wouldn’t be anybody to haul them into a kangaroo court for doing so. Crime, especially violent crime, would drop by more than an order of magnitude in less than 12 months. Don’t need a riot act when you have roof Koreans – which is good, because the last time the riot act was consistently enforced, Hitler had legitimate office.

    Of course, America has negative interest in cutting off revenue to organized crime. Do you know how many campaign contributions they give? Don’t even think about it.

  77. Mactoul says:
    @Muggles

    Libertarian reject moral authority of the political community and regard individuals as morally supreme. Cf Justice Kennedy’s famous dictum about the heart of liberty. Thus, they allow all sorts of sexual deviance.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  78. Mark G. says:
    @Rob McX

    They got a boner listening to Reagan’s homilies against “big government” and how it compared unfavourably to big business.

    Reagan engaged in pro-small government rhetoric but the reality of the Reagan administration was that government continued to grow. Reagan himself admitted that later on. There was an internal struggle early in the Reagan administration with the small government types like David Stockman on one side and mainstream big business Republicans and neocon foreign policy types on the other side. The small government more libertarian types lost that internal struggle. So, you cannot really say that Reagan’s libertarian policies failed because, while he sometimes talked like a libertarian, he ended up not governing like one. This same big government conservatism continued under both Bush I and Bush II.

    • Thanks: Rob McX
  79. @Reg Cæsar

    Yes, I am sure about this. America puts people in jail for long prison sentences for possesion of drugs. Other countries do not. Compare the U.S to Holland or Canada.

  80. Jiminy says:

    Just yesterday while sitting down having something to eat, a terrible odour wafted into the room. It smelt just like electrical burning. I quickly got up and raced around the house looking for a fire, only to realise that the neighbours were icing up again. It actually smells like the varnish on the commutator wires burning off, very acrid. Then comes the monotonous wrap-crap that always seems to follow. How people can deliberately breathe that stuff in has got me beat, and to think that they’ve got three little kids living there as well. What a lifestyle.

  81. Hhsiii says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    It probably saves on lingering medical expenses.

    It’s hard to go seatbeltless now. At least in the front seat. The cars keep beeping if you do.

    My dad was put in a coma by a defective airbag that deployed. So there’s that. I remember lying on the back deck as a kid, pre-kids seats. We were all over the back seat of the car. Guess we were lucky.

  82. Rob says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    As someone who has tested at the “not an idiot” range on IQ tests, I cannot tell you why every non-idiot who uses drugs uses them, but I can tell you why I did. Chronic pain! A terribly injured disc that compressed a nerve, a torn ligament or tendon in my hip, tendonosis of a hamstring tendon, osteoarthritis in my hip, and I forget-what-it-was-called with my iliopsoas left me in constant screaming pain. No one would believe me. Smoking pot helped. I mean, life was still an endless, awful now, but at least it was a shorter interval.

    [MORE]

    The thing is if you are under eighteen and your parents don’t think you need medical care, and your dad’s a doctor at the hospital, no doctor is going to order an MRI to see if you do need surgery. When you are eighteen-early twenties at college, student health does not have an MRI on campus. When you can’t ride the bus or the subway, because you’re too injured, and you can’t organize well enough to submit claims, then as a practical matter, you are living with stone(d)-age medicine. After college, but before ACA reforms, employer health insurance had “pre-existing conditions” exclusions…

    There were maybe things I could have done to get medical care, but I was too scared to rob a bank to get sent to prison and try to get surgery there because I might not have got the third step after completing the first two. In high school, I could have tried to get emancipated, but there’s no guarantee my new guardian would have let me get surgery. Trying to stay high all the time was the best possible option. It wasn’t the best imaginable option, but it was something I could manage. It was a bit like an unfunny version of the old joke:

    “I used to have a lot of problems before I started abusing drugs. Now I only have one problem: drugs!”

    Honestly, if we had socialized medicine with the amount the country currently (then) spent on healthcare, I might have been able to get the three-four surgeries I needed. It’s why I support making healthcare (nearly) free. There are a lot of people who could contribute more to society if they could just get their overwhelming pain, or depression, or obesity, or bipolar disorder treated while they are young enough that they can go to school or get on a reasonable career track. Having a ton of nearly impossible to navigate government programs that are welfare for midwit (by black standards) dumb women with third-rate degrees. The people who actually need the medical care cannot jump through a hoop any higher than going to a doctor and screaming, “Fucking Help Me!

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  83. Dan says:

    Legalize all recreational drugs and the mid and low level drug peddlers will be out of work, plus they’ll still be committing crimes by selling on the street instead of a state regulated dispensary. The cartels will cut prices to get their men in business and killings for market share will continue, as will killings over being cheated or in the course of robbing dealers. So the white hipsters will have legal weed and the ghetto folk will keep dying.

    • Replies: @Alden
  84. Mike Tre says:
    @stillCARealist

    Union men used to meet at the corner tavern and drop raw eggs into their pints of lager for breakfast before work.

  85. Mike Tre says:
    @Muggles

    ” Gay marriage was not pioneered in the USA and has created no problems.”

    LOL – No problems. At best you haven’t been paying attention.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  86. MVMCC says:

    Holy Christ, Sailer, why does you ability to analyze a situation always fall apart on this issue?

    Why don’t you try Steelmanning instead of acting like a retard?

  87. @Rob

    A medical condition is something entirely different & is almost a negligible percentage among drug users.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
  88. @Muggles

    When you can buy drugs in nearly all high security prisons, do you think maybe ending Black Market incentives for sale/distribution might be a good idea?

    There is no constant supply of drugs in prison. That is a myth.

    Selling meth in stores would not improve society. We have enough people addicted to prescribed pain killers. Letting drug companies sell high grade meth for pennies on the dollar would destroy what is left of society.

    “The government which governs least, governs best.”

    So minimal governments should have the best societies?

    When do you plan on going to Haiti for your vacation? Perhaps Liberia is nice this type of year?

    Libertarians actually want to:
    Bring in any Haitians that want to move here (Most of Haiti).
    Let pharmaceutical companies create new PCP like drugs to sell them
    Allow them to buy Saw-M249s in retail stores without background checks

    That is no exaggeration. They want complete deregulation of immigration, guns and drugs.

    There is a reason that the Libertarian candidate usually gets 1%. The more people learn about this wackjob cult the less they want anything to do with them.

    • Agree: TWS
    • Troll: Muggles
  89. Rob McX says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    It seems to be a fairly common trigger for abuse of opioids.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  90. When pressed you will find that Libertarians don’t deny that Ayn Rand was full of crap.

    She denounced racial collectivism as the worst form and then referred to Arabs as primitive savages.

    She is on record stating that Israel should kick out Palestinians.

    So Israel gets borders but not the US or Europe. Cause that’s different.

    I’m amazed that her cult still exists. We know she admired a child killer (William Hickman) and had all sorts of double standards for Israel. She denied character traits can be genetic but clearly thought the Palestinians were genetically inferior to Jews. Completely full of sh-t but I guess some people really need a simplistic and “feel good” ideology even if it doesn’t make any sense and the founder was a liar.

    Let’s bring in millions of Africans of and get rid of all Federal pollution controls. This is actually what she called for. Let the corps pollute all they want and bring in the third world. Oh and legalize crack too. Should be a utopia.

    A crack smoking Haitian dumping garbage into your local river is just fine in Randian land. What a visionary genius.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Jim
  91. Yngvar says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Men who have found tbe right way of life do not seek to escape from awareness, to obliterate their consciousness, and to drug themselves out of existence. Drug addiction is the confession of an unbearable inner state.

    — Ayn Rand, The Return of the Primitive

  92. duncsbaby says:
    @AndrewR

    Cool info but I hope giving out your DOB on an internet message board doesn’t come back to haunt you.

  93. @Zero Philosopher

    “Most people dying from opiate overdoses are politically conservative, ”

    There may have been a time when that was true, but it hasn’t been for years. These have long been the cheapest lowest drug of choice for most all addicts of any race – for nearly 2 decades, really.

    Also, your raging screed is hilariously idiotic altogether.

  94. @Muggles

    Gay marriage was not pioneered in the USA and has created no problems.

    Because there was nothing left to true marriage after no-fault divorce. Once New York succumbed to that, it was less than a year before SSM arrived in the state.

    In other words, SSM is at the bottom of the slippery slope.

  95. @John Johnson

    When pressed you will find that Libertarians don’t deny that Ayn Rand was full of crap.

    She and her Objectivist cult hated libertarians. Because they derived their fundamental principle from somewhere else.

    …and then referred to Arabs as primitive savages.

    And this is wrong in that…?

    get rid of all Federal pollution controls. This is actually what she called for. Let the corps pollute all they want…

    This is “the tragedy of the commons”. Nobody owns the river, so everybody owns the river. Libertarians may have the wrong answer, but they do have an answer. Federal overlordshipsight, your answer, is never popular locally.

    She was a chain smoker, by the way.

    Anyway, that most racially “based” of states, Louisiana, was the worst polluter of all. It was a God-given right that annoying Yankee environmentalists wanted to interfere with.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  96. @Rob McX

    No. There is a whole spectrum of reliable analgesics that will cure/relieve anyone of most types of pain. I’ve used opioid tramadol perhaps 5-8 times in life & that’s it. When in pain, there are tons of other analgesics.

    True, sometimes and rarely, medical marijuana is the best relief. But, among those using it much less than 10% are sufferers from chronic pain, or something similar. Most people use it recreationally, as they do with cocaine, heroin, crack, what not. Affluent countries simply don’t need that shit (literally), and only poor countries like Afghanistan, Iran, India …”need it” because they can’t do otherwise.

  97. Hhsiii says:
    @AndrewR

    I’d be more careful driving without a seatbelt.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    , @acementhead
  98. Alden says:
    @Luzzatto

    Cleanliness of San Francisco streets used to depend on the wind. Wind blows trash away. I never knew where it went. I never saw the streets where the trash landed. Now days of course much of the dirt is sticky.

    I remember the leash law pooper scooper conflict. The liberals were against leash and pooper scooper laws because “ dogs must run free”

    SF needs human pooper scooper laws. Oops forgot, no laws are ever enforced in SF any more.

    I saw an interview with Chesa Boudin, 5th generation communist Jew the county prosecutor. The reporter was really tough. Blaming Chesa for the rising crime rate. Chesa kept blaming the police, The police don’t bring us good cases. It’s all the fault of the police.

  99. Alden says:
    @Luzzatto

    That’s our expat commenter Rotan Bill’s opinion. Speed limits are unconstitutional. Anyone should be allowed to drive as fast as they wish, anywhere.

  100. Feryl says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    UpThe crime trends of the early 20th century were in fact closely linked to the vast waves of immigration into America from circa 1880-1920. Prohibition and an immigration moratorium were both aimed at stabilizing society (Anglos didn’t want America to be further Germanized/Lutheranized, Anglos and Teutons didn’t want Italians or Jews to gain further influence beyond the Mid-Atlantic (eventually, in spite of the moratorium, they would exert more influence in New England and the Eastern Midwest). By the 80’s Anglos and Jews entered a pact to flood America with the entire world so long as Anglo-Jews remained the ruling class.

    On the other hand, the sky high crime trends of circa 1968-1995 seem generational and not really associated with immigration. White and black Boomers committed tons of crimes, while Gen X and Millennial blacks commit almost all of the crime within their generation (crime slid after 1995 because white Boomers aged out of committing crime). For proof of this look at serial killer ethnicity. By the late 90’s the majority of serial killers were black. The generation born in the 70’s was like 70-75% white, yet few of the whites went on to become serial killers because whites born in the 70’s and 80’s are mostly harmless (only time will tell how Gen Z whites behave themselves, but obviously our whole culture collapsing since Obama’s 2nd term doesn’t bode well).

    • Agree: TWS, Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  101. Alden says:
    @Dan

    Legalizing weed has not worked in California.

    First the federal ( FDA) state county and village governments jumped in with incredible destructive regulations. Weed farms are farms. And all farms are heavily regulated y the department of agriculture and the FDA. Plus EPA and DOA regulates farms for manure , manure pollution of ground water pesticides exploding grain storage silos rats and vermin and a gazillion other things.

    States have their own AG departments that regulate farms. Weed uses vast amounts of water. To flush out the potassium and other nutrients. And California has endless water laws, especially for crop farms. And liberals and the EPA disapprove of irrigation and water being used for farms. So now that weed is legal it’s very hard for weed farmers to get enough water for their crop. There’s a lot more government regulations for the growers.

    At the retail level the extra weed taxes are so high customers have gone back to buying illegally. It’s illegal to buy weed anywhere but a state county and city licensed pot shop. And the cost of the licenses is huge.

    Plus more and more towns are refusing to give out pot shop licenses. Because the sidewalks in front of pot shops turn into 7/11 parking lots. Full of homeless bums passed out from drinking 3 28 OZ cans of malt liquor at a time, begging for money to buy lottery tickets, peeing all over collecting trash lunatic outbursts etc.

    The sidewalks in front of pot shops are getting so nasty customers stay away.

    So much for legalizing weed.

  102. Rob McX says:
    @Hhsiii

    I remember hearing a representative of some cyclists’ organisation being interviewed where he said the law making it mandatory to wear a seatbelt turned out really bad for cyclists. As soon as motorists started wearing seatbelts, they started driving more carelessly because the belt made them feel safer and more protected. Collisions with cyclists increased.

    • Agree: Hhsiii
  103. Libre says:

    Is there a point or argument here?

  104. Gordo says:
    @Loyalty Over IQ Worship

    So, as we become a more multiracial society, libertarian dreams are gone forever.

    Liberalism and social democracy as well, can only work in homogenous White societies.

  105. Libre says:
    @zacie

    Scared Steve will never admit that is the reason. Not blm, not persecutors, etc etc

  106. Jim says:
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    Accidental death rates and work absences declined during prohibition. There were bad effects as well as good and the subject is complex but the over all economic impact of prohibition may well have been positive in terms of greater economic productivity and a higher standard of living.

    Domestic violence almost certainly decreased as well.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  107. @Feryl

    On the other hand, the sky high crime trends of circa 1968-1995 seem generational and not really associated with immigration.

    Yes, I got the 15-year gap from Daniel Amnéus, who, attributed the rise in violence to the rise in bastardy paid for by more generous welfare. The ups-and-downs since then mostly vary by size of cohort and crackdowns. No postwar “generation” is that more violent than another.

    This time around, immigration may be lowering crime. Not only whites but blacks are a smaller portion of births.

    Pre-Prohibition alcohol-related crime was probably mostly native and Irish. Few Germans and Mediterraneans are drunks. Italians sold the stuff; they didn’t abuse it themselves.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  108. nebulafox says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    >Few Germans

    I can’t speak for western or southern Germany, but in the east (both in the DDR and, in the prewar era, the eastern parts of Germany that became Poland/Russia after WWII), alcoholism was a *major* social problem. It’s gotten better in the last couple of decades, but ex-Ossis still drink more heavily than their counterparts in the former West.

    Part of that was all the depressing realities that came with the especially invasive Prussian brand of Communism, to be sure. But I think there was also a pre-war cultural difference between East Elbia and Rhineland/Bavaria.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  109. Jim says:
    @John Johnson

    According to Greg Cochran, Palestinians, particularly Christian Palestinians, are genetically
    closer to Biblical Hebrews than Ashkenazi Jews who are about 60% European genetically.

    The average IQ of Israeli Arabs is about 89. The average world IQ is about 88.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  110. Gamecock says:
    @Travis

    Legalizing drugs would increase the number of addicts

    Nope. The effect would be the opposite. As you get the money out of drugs, by getting government out of it, the incentive to hook new users goes away. Dealers, pushers, and cartels go away if there is no money to be made. These people aren’t trying to make people feel good with their drugs, they are trying to get users’ money.

    Much of the drugs are agricultural products. There’s no reason for marijuana to cost more than okra. It is government that makes it expensive, creating many problems. Problems worse than actual usage.

    • Disagree: TWS
    • Replies: @Travis
  111. Muggles says:
    @John Johnson

    Thanks for your ‘evidence’ here:

    Numerous Republicans identify as libertarian.

    Yet you fail to cite a single one. Some use the small ‘l’ libertarian at times, but almost zero call themselves ‘libertarian Republicans.’ I should know since I was one of the founders of a tiny group that promotes libertarians as Republicans. Aside from Rand Paul (who usually doesn’t use the l-word himself) not many.

    But more importantly the belief of Free Markets above all comes from libertarians.

    “Above all”? Libertarians believe in voluntary behavior, including markets. But there are pre conditions to having markets, like private property rights. So you mis-state or mis-report what libertarians believe.

    As to libertarians in the media owning class (or anywhere) calling themselves libertarians, you cite two.

    Once Charles Koch originally identified himself as a libertarian but for the past decade or two uses more fuzzy descriptors. He hasn’t owned any media in decades, much less major ones.

    Thiel doesn’t appear to financially support any outright libertarian institutions or groups, much less media. So a non-factor.

    Two (barely, since neither does much for libertarian advocacy) billionaires out of say, over a thousand world wide? Hundreds in the US? How many billionaires fund Dem/leftist/Woke websites, newspapers, magazines, TV stations/channels, “non profit” leftists of all sorts?

    Koch is in his 80s and Thiel to my knowledge has never attended any event explicitly sponsored by or for libertarians. Sad.

    While the ideas of libertarianism have gained attention, organized efforts on behalf of those ideas are out-spent, out-funded by liberals, leftists, commies, Wokesters and state loving fascists by millions to one.

    The ideas alone appear to sustain what libertarian influence exists.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  112. Muggles says:
    @Mactoul

    Thus, they allow all sorts of sexual deviance.

    This ‘sexual deviance’ you seem so preoccupied with neither stems from nor is controlled by political or ideological factors.

    It occurs whether or not “allowed.”

    The only political issue is whether or not adults should be punished for what they do voluntarily in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

    Evidently you are unhappy not to be invited to watch.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  113. Muggles says:
    @Mike Tre

    ” Gay marriage was not pioneered in the USA and has created no problems.”

    LOL – No problems. At best you haven’t been paying attention.

    So your husband is now talking divorce?

  114. @nebulafox

    …in the east (both in the DDR and, in the prewar era, the eastern parts of Germany that became Poland/Russia after WWII), alcoholism was a *major* social problem.

    I’ve read that the Prussians and other eastern Germans are from Slavic tribes that adopted the German language. If this is true, it would explain any such difference with the West.

    Many Prussian surnames end in -witz or -ow.

  115. @Muggles

    The only political issue is whether or not adults should be punished for what they do voluntarily in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

    Civil marriage by definition invites the state into the bedroom. It’s statist by design.

    Who cares if Adam cheats on Steve? Why does City Hall have to get involved?

  116. Old Prude says:
    @Altai

    Do “blue ticks” think crime is down? I’m having Thanksgiving with a few and they are fanatic about locking the cars and the house and watching their apps for local break ins

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  117. @Reg Cæsar

    She and her Objectivist cult hated libertarians. Because they derived their fundamental principle from somewhere else.

    She only complained about libertarians of her time.

    The libertarian platform party today is modeled after her ideas. It has been ratified by thousands of members.

    …and then referred to Arabs as primitive savages.

    And this is wrong in that…?

    Because it went against everything she stood for.

    She said that racial collectivism is the lowest form. So if Germany says they don’t want to import Africans they are being evil and collectivist because they are denying the individualism of those African migrants.

    However this didn’t apply to Arabs and Israel. She not only called Arabs primitive savages but compared them to American Indians getting in the way of progress.

    So progress depends on kicking Arabs out of Israel but Germany can’t refuse immigrants of any type including Arabs because that would be collectivist and against individual freedom. Completely contradictory.

    It showed that she was completely full of crap and didn’t live by her own beliefs. Donahue completely trolled her on this. So many of her followers think she is a genius and yet she was trolled by a trashy daytime talk show host.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  118. @Hhsiii

    If seatbelts and airbags were illegal, but a big spike sticking out from the centre of the steering wheel was mandatory, then car crashes would drop to almost zero.

  119. Seat belts and airbags are a moral hazard. So is insurance. All should be banned, and the streets would be vastly safer.

  120. @Reg Cæsar

    I’ve read that the Prussians and other eastern Germans are from Slavic tribes that adopted the German language. If this is true, it would explain any such difference with the West.

    Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  121. nebulafox says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    It was a mix. In addition to the Slavic tribes in modern day eastern Germany and western Poland Germanizing, there was a lot of ethnic German immigration eastwards throughout the centuries, starting in the Middle Ages. If you are familiar with the story of the ethnic Chinese diaspora in Southeast Asia, you’ll recognize some parallels, as well as a couple of key differences.

    (Fun fact: one theory of the tale of the Pied Piper of Hamelin is that it reflects a real memory of the young people of the town migrating east, in this case IIRC, to modern day Romania. Later immigration centuries later would end up creating the Banat Swabians: if you look on a linguistic map of Austria-Hungary before WWI, there are one of a handful of German speaking pockets scattered throughout the eastern part of the empire. Although the ethnic Germans had the most thanks to Bohemia/Moravia, you also had pockets of Magyar and Polish speakers surrounded by other ethnic groups in the nearby countryside, too, standing out on the map like islands in a sea. To say nothing of cities like Lwow that had a heavy Jewish contingent, who all spoke Yiddish.)

    I’m not sure how much that explains the alcohol culture, though. Further east, the German minorities tended to remain in their own community rather than assimilating into the local Baltic or Slavic culture: in the Baltic states, they were the landowning aristocracy, so not underclass at all. Yet it still happened.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Anonymous
  122. nebulafox says:
    @nebulafox

    The comment timed out, but I forgot to add: I *think* they spoke Yiddish in Galicia. I’m not certain of that. They might have spoke Polish as a default. I’ve heard that in the Tsarist Empire, Yiddish might as well have been Mandarin to many in the Polish or Ukrainian peasantry, but I’m not sure how true that was in AH. Further west, urban, non-immigrant Jews tended to be better assimilated and default to German (Kafka serving as the quintessential bourgeois example), or in Budapest, Magyar.

    Just looking at the language map of pre-war Central and Eastern Europe is fascinating. Like a little glimpse of a forever, irrevocably lost world.

  123. @Intelligent Dasein

    Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable.

    Thanks for your tuppenceworth, Bruce.

    Actually, Kant never left East Prussia in his lifetime, never traveling 60 miles from his birthplace. That’s pretty stable.

    [MORE]

  124. @John Johnson

    So many of her followers think she is a genius

    All 25 of them.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  125. The point of Steve’s post is that liberalisation of drug laws (either non-enforcememt or legalisation as in prescription opioids or decriminalisation of soft drugs) has not led to a society of informed adults voluntarily consenting to recreational drug transactions, as in Nozick et al. Instead the USs metropolises now resemble a Bruegel paining, liberally sprinkled with Glock brandishing gang bangers.

    Likewise, the liberalisation of trade did not lead to the mid western working class “learning to code”. The liberalisation of immigration did not lead to wages holding up. And the liberalisation of finance did not lead to self-regulating capital markets.

    Notice a pattern here? Post modern liberalisation is ALWAYS a cue for the bait-and-switch. Fool me once…

    • Agree: Rob McX
    • Replies: @Gamecock
    , @New Dealer
  126. @Muggles

    Numerous Republicans identify as libertarian.

    Yet you fail to cite a single one. Some use the small ‘l’ libertarian at times, but almost zero call themselves ‘libertarian Republicans.’

    You didn’t ask for one.

    Matt Gaetz.

    “Above all”? Libertarians believe in voluntary behavior, including markets. But there are pre conditions to having markets, like private property rights. So you mis-state or mis-report what libertarians believe.

    It’s a rhetorical statement that describes their placing the value of markets over country and people.

    They don’t support pollution controls which means they value profits over dumping toxic waste into rivers.

    They don’t support borders even if the majority supports them. So they are openly against the populace and support bringing in millions of Muslims that would eventually overrule idiot libertarians.

    Once Charles Koch originally identified himself as a libertarian but for the past decade or two uses more fuzzy descriptors. He hasn’t owned any media in decades, much less major ones.

    Yea he only dumps hundreds of millions into “free market” organizations. He actually went after municipalities that were trying to provide public internet. Even though he is a billionaire it actually bothered him that some small town was setting up internet as a public resource.

    Koch is in his 80s and Thiel to my knowledge has never attended any event explicitly sponsored by or for libertarians.

    They have both funded libertarian organizations.

    It’s clear that you aren’t even bothering to do any research on these people or on libertarians in general.

    If you actually spent 5 minutes Googling Theil you would find that he not only funds libertarian organizations but actually wants to create his own libertarian islands.
    https://www.christianpost.com/news/billionaire-peter-thiel-funding-libertarian-islands-to-build-new-societies.html

    https://googlethatforyou.com?q=thiel%20libertarian

  127. @Reg Cæsar

    So many of her followers think she is a genius

    All 25 of them.

    Yea I wish. Trump would have taken Arizona and Georgia if not for their pointless Jo Jorgenson vote.

  128. J.Ross says:
    @Jim

    >”almost certainly” sayeth increasingly almost certain man

  129. J.Ross says:
    @Old Prude

    suddenly you undersrand
    you’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy
    how can you get robbed if you own nothing

  130. Anonymous[166] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    This German migration eastwards is the subject of Robert Bartlett’s “The Making of Europe”. It also covers the contemporaneous migrations of Christians into Iberia and of English settlers to Ireland.

  131. Jay Fink says:
    @Travis

    Drug addicts are more offensive to me than the cartels. The cartels would be broke if it wasn’t for morally bankrupt Americans choosing to take drugs. I wouldn’t want anything to be done to lower the overdose numbers (other than less people taking drugs). If someone chooses to take drugs there should be consequences and we as a society should celebrate the consequences.

  132. Gamecock says:
    @Jack Strocchi

    Notice a pattern here?

    Sure. The Left re-regulates, and euphemistically calls it liberalization or deregulation. Then, when problems arise, they shrug and declare, “We tried deregulation, and it doesn’t work.”

  133. @Jack Strocchi

    I was a teen libertarian. I loved the rush of having an easy answer for any political question. And the rush of imagining that getting stoned was a blow against the towering leviathan.

    Libertarianism presumes and celebrates free human agency. But what about personal actions that destroy such agency? Should you be free to contract into lifelong slavery: permanent loss of freedom?

    The problem with addictive substances – alcohol, benzos, opiates, cocaine, amphetamines, etc. – is that they can destroy human agency. Most who become addicted would prefer not to be, and tend to harm relatives, friends, and the public. A mother who becomes addicted for example does repeated damage to her children, spouse, and natal family. I’ve seen that with my own eyes.

    Public policy is fact free and easy for libertarians and communists.

    • Agree: John Johnson
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  134. Jack D says:
    @Jim

    Only maybe half the Jews in Israel are Ashkenazim and the rest are probably more similar to the local Arabs genetically.

    This has always been the tragedy of the Ashkenazim – to Europeans they were an alien “Semitic” race but to Semites they were European colonists. Europeans wanted them to go “back” to Palestine and Palestinian want them to go “back” to Europe.

    Unfortunately, an IQ of 88 or 89 is enough to support subsistence farming but it’s not enough to maintain an advanced civilization.

  135. Travis says:
    @Gamecock

    Legalizing drugs does not get the “government out of it”. Just look at the states which legalized marijuana. The government actually gets more involved when drugs are legal and the cost of legal marijuana is the same or higher as Black market marijuana. Same with tobacco. Would be the same with opiates, the black market would probably continue due to heavy taxes and regulations if they legalize opiates. One exception seems to be alcohol, which is regulated and taxed yet the black market for booze is not significant.

    Today I can go buy a bag of black market smack laced with Fentanyl for \$10 or a bag of meth , I can get a legal prescription for amphetamines or opiates which can be filled at my local pharmacy. It is more costly to obtain it legally today, even with my health insurance. If it was legal without a prescription Big Pharma would keep the prices high, just as they keep the prices high today and we would have to pay increased taxes on our legal drugs.

    Today, a single hit of Crystal Meth costs about \$5 and is almost 100% pure on the black market. a gram contains about 4 hits, a gram cost between \$20 and \$50 o the street. If meth was legal without a prescription the cost would probably be be more than \$50 per gram due to taxes and regulations.

    Methamphetamine (Desoxyn) can be prescribed by your doctor for weight loss or ADHD. It cost \$300 -\$900 at the drug stores for 5mg pills so the legal cost is about \$1,000 per gram with a prescription and just \$50 on the street.

  136. Jack D says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    Far more people have died from car accidents by driving too fast and recklessly than from drug overdoses.

    Maybe cumulatively, but right now drug overdose deaths are outrunning vehicle accident deaths by better than 2 to 1.

    Anyway, it’s not a good analogy. Driving is generally socially useful. Driving is how people get to work, goods get to market, etc. In exchange for all of the benefits that come from driving, there is a small risk that you will be injured or killed in an accident. Virtually every American rides on the highway but fewer that 40,000 are killed each year.

    In contrast, drug addiction serves no socially useful function. And the risks are enormous – there are maybe 10 million opiate abusers in the US and over 100,000 have died in the last 12 months, so the risk of taking opiates is maybe 100 to 1 greater than the risk of driving a car.

    • Replies: @Zero Philosopher
  137. @Jack D

    Define “socially useful”?

    I can argue that drugs are more useful than cars. That there are many people out there that only do not kill themselves because they have an outlet in life from their domineering bosses and wives, endless bills to pay, endless social pressures to sublimate their individual needs and urges due to social rules, etc.

    There are many people out there that arevastly more productive because of drugs. Just look at all the people that are only able to concentrate for hours because of their prescriptions for Adderall(amphetamine sulphate salts. In Europeans countries, addicts are given an injection of methadone and they and the Society are much better off with it. They are much calmer, more productive because of it. Opiates also not only are potent pain-relievers, the euphoria that they induce is tremendously socially useful due to the comfort it brings those who are dying and their loved ones.

    Also, there is a larger issue here than what is “socially useful”, namely, individual rights and the right of the individual to do what they want with themselves and their lives. What right has the state or Society of telling people what they can put into their bodies?

    So no, you are wrong on all counts. Also, I highly doubt that more people die from drug overdoses than from car crashes. That statistic seems like conservative moralistic BS to me, just like back in the 1980’s the Reaganite posters that showed your brain and then your brain on drugs with an egg eing frying on a pan. Or like in the 1930’s when marijuana was outlawed by conservative politicians on the grounds that “negroes” on pot would rape white women and attack cops. Conservatives have tremedous biases against minorities, and having fun is not really a conservative thing, so they will make up the most tangential arguments and distort data to justify their prejudices.

    Also, the larger issue here

    • Replies: @Jack D
  138. Alrenous says: • Website

    P.S. the [sell in stores] vs. [full criminalization] thing is a false dichotomy. A Satanist double bind. The opposite of a lie is usually still a lie, and always still a lie if it’s something Progressives say.

    The missing variable is lionization vs. disparagement. Fully legalize drug use, then hold it in contempt. Mock and ridicule anyone who actually buys them. Mix in some pity if you can swing it.

    Don’t scold. That makes it rebellious. Scolding is a form of respect. “It’s powerful, I just don’t like it.” Ref: tobacco. Of course tobacco companies have lobbyists too, which is why the anti-smoking campaigns are always scolding, not contemptuous.

  139. Jack D says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    Also, I highly doubt that more people die from drug overdoses than from car crashes.

    You’re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. In 2020 there were something like 38k vehicle deaths and 93K overdose deaths in the US.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2021/drug-overdose-toll-2020-and-near-term-actions-addressing-it

    https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-fatality-data-show-increased-traffic-fatalities-during-pandemic

    This is cold hard fact so you can doubt it all you want and it won’t change reality. Our government is pretty shitty at recording a lot of things but deaths are kept track of pretty precisely. If anything, 93K is an undercount because it doesn’t count people whose health is ruined by drugs but they don’t die of an overdose but from liver failure, people who die of exposure because addiction has made them homeless, etc. Even the vehicle total includes a large # of people who died BECAUSE they were under the influence of drugs.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
  140. Curle says:
    @Zero Philosopher

    . . . OD deaths are mostly from red states he says:

    Here’s OD death rate increases by county ‘79-‘13. Red is greatest blue least. When did Northeast go red?

    https://www.livescience.com/54529-drug-overdose-deaths-counties.html

  141. @New Dealer

    I was a teen libertarian. I loved the rush of having an easy answer for any political question. And the rush of imagining that getting stoned was a blow against the towering leviathan.
    ..

    Public policy is fact free and easy for libertarians and communists.

    Well stated and it takes a real man to admit that he was wrong.

    Many of us are ex-libertarians/ex-liberals.

  142. jtgw says:

    Well obviously other things were happening at the same time that drug arrests were falling, such as the ones you cite yourself, like the pandemic and the George Floyd protests/riots. Not clear how more drug arrests would have fixed that. I think you have a better case when comparing e.g. Baltimore before and after Freddie Gray, when drop in arrests does coincide suspiciously with jump in homicides. On the other hand, Mosby’s office decided early last year to stop prosecuting a whole slew of petty crimes but violent crime actually fell thereafter (from an admittedly high level).

    Also important to remember that even when local law enforcement eases up on the drug war, federal and state prohibition continue to create conditions for a violent illegal market in drugs. And then there are all the other ways in which government intervention stifles economic opportunity, making illegal drug activity a relatively attractive proposition for the urban poor.

  143. @Feryl

    Execssively strong drugs are cause by prohibition, not by dealers trying to get their customers addicted. The standout example being how Prohibition caused moonshine and bathtub gin to become popular. During prohibition, you want the drugs to be less bulky.

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