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Michael Barone writes:

Voters reject John Lennon’s “world as one”

By MICHAEL BARONE (@MICHAELBARONE) • 10/2/16 12:01 AM

“The president believes the world will be a better place if all borders are eliminated — from a trade perspective, from the viewpoint of economic development and in welcoming people from other cultures and countries.”

The president in question is Bill Clinton, speaking soon after leaving office, on Sept. 10, 2001, in Melbourne, Australia. There’s apparently no transcript; the quotation is from the businessman who hosted the forum in an article in the next day’s Melbourne newspaper, which appeared, thanks to time zone differences, about 12 hours before the airliners hit the Twin Towers.

The words are an interesting indicator of a general attitude, a prevailing sentiment taken largely for granted not just by Democrats and Americans like Clinton but also by elite leaders of many parties in the advanced democracies around the world.

Call it Lennonism, after John Lennon’s lyrics in “Imagine.” “Imagine there’s no countries,” Lennon wrote. “Nothing to kill or die for. … Imagine all the people living life in peace. … And the world will be as one.” It’s an appealing vision, but perhaps an odd one for someone born, as Lennon was, when and where the Battle of Britain was raging in the skies overhead.

Today, 15 years after Clinton’s talk in Melbourne, Lennonism remains the credo of many elite leaders but is in grave trouble with voters.

 
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  1. Lennon´s ideas were worth a try, only problem is they actually were tried and they failed.

  2. Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it’s often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn’t get passed on much. It’s still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Glossy

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter - particularly in the latter half of the Beatles' career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild, @Jim Don Bob, @Former Darfur, @Flip, @2Mintzin1, @flyingtiger

    , @Realist
    @Glossy

    Man can be a non belligerent but still kill those who try to kill him.

    , @Father O'Hara
    @Glossy

    I'd think the warriors among us are the ones who do the dyin'? The pacifists stay back and try to get the girls.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas

    , @James Kabala
    @Glossy

    It is also interesting that one of Lennon's few good characteristics (although even this could be turned in a nasty direction) was his wit, yet this hardly ever showed up in his songs. The funny Beatles songs are all by McCartney - Paperback Writer, Penny Lane, Lovely Rita, Back in the U.S.S.R., Rocky Raccoon, She Came in though the Bathroom Window, probably a few more along those lines that don't come immediately to mind. (Funny is not quite the right word here - none of those songs are laugh-out-loud hilarious, but they all have clever lyrics and a light touch.)

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Darin
    @Glossy

    For every man who runs forwards to war, hundreds are running away. You see it in Syria, Ukraine and everywhere else. This is not warrior's world, this is not pacifists world, this is coward's world.

    , @Anonymous
    @Glossy

    Imagine was written at the most overtly political point in Lennon's life, a period he later admitted was driven by wealth and war-guilt and a need to prove he was one with the people "against my instincts".

    It's truly a shame he wasn't around later to ruthlessly mock the use of his treacly song as an excuse for Islamic barbarism.

    , @Assistant Village Idiot
    @Glossy

    They sang it at the concert for Bangladesh, which is rather ironic.

  3. Imagine there’s no heaven
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there’s no countries
    Imagine all the people living life in peace

    Imagine no possessions
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world

    This is why I’m not a liberal. Lennon’s view of human nature is completely different from my own.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @anon930

    "This is why I’m not a liberal. Lennon’s view of human nature is completely different from my own."

    I agree. Such a world could only be realized by souless and pitiless tyrants - men who claim to love "the people", but who hate actual people.

    Replies: @Dr. X

    , @415 reasons
    @anon930

    I mean sharing women in the pre-HIV era sounds pretty good but the rest of the hippie BS is pretty stupid. Of course the baby boomers left my generation w tourist shops on Haight street, Ben and Jerrys socialism and HIV, the free hetero sex had long since dried up.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @22pp22
    @anon930

    Lennon Yoko Ono amassed a fairly impressive pile of possessions.

    Replies: @Darin

    , @22pp22
    @anon930

    John and Yoko amassed an impressive pile of possessions.

    Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...

    , @Santoculto
    @anon930

    The main problem is not even the multi ethnicitism but multi culturalism. People kill more one each other because their ''cultural'' differences than exactly because their ethnic differences and even when happen ethnic conflicts it tend to be driven by underlied cultural discrepancies.

    A multi ethnicitism with many people with different ethnicities and or races and narrowed or pretty similar point of views may be less complicated/conflictive than a lot of different cultures with discrepant point of views.

    Cultures, perfectly or not so, tends to reflex genetically/psychologically differences.

    Many if not most of human interpersonal conflicts born within families, because the intimacy we are forced to share with our relatives and surprise, humans tends to be socially dumb (still acting like ants)

    other underlied macro-problems that make human interactions so complicated is

    - the influence of hyper-masculine cultures/ naturally expansionist cultures,

    - the influence of anti-social personalities in any purposeful stupid action, for example, the rapefuelgees ''crisis''. I know Mèrdel is not that dumb old bitch, i know that she know exactly what she's doing.

    PAX.

    , @Critical Eye
    @anon930

    Imagine there's no countries
    Said the man who emigrated to the US to avoid high taxes

    Imagine no possessions
    Said the man who left a $250 Million estate

    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
    Said the man who essentially left his first wife and son out of his will

  4. “…And the world will be as one.” Left unsaid is the fact that that one world would be like Castro’s Cuba. No doubt “it’s an appealing vision…” to Barone, the Ruling Class mouthpiece, but to Americans it is repellent.

  5. Imagine as an elegy.

    An elegy for nations, for peoples, for distinct cultures, for race, for family, for particularism.

    It is almost certainly not what the musicians intended.

    But it works.

    Do we really want to live in a world in which there is “nothing to kill or die for”?

  6. @anon930

    Imagine there's no heaven
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    Imagine all the people living life in peace

    Imagine no possessions
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
     
    This is why I'm not a liberal. Lennon's view of human nature is completely different from my own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @415 reasons, @22pp22, @22pp22, @Santoculto, @Critical Eye

    “This is why I’m not a liberal. Lennon’s view of human nature is completely different from my own.”

    I agree. Such a world could only be realized by souless and pitiless tyrants – men who claim to love “the people”, but who hate actual people.

    • Replies: @Dr. X
    @Mr. Anon


    “This is why I’m not a liberal. Lennon’s view of human nature is completely different from my own.”

    I agree. Such a world could only be realized by souless and pitiless tyrants – men who claim to love “the people”, but who hate actual people.
     
    In other words, Lennon was the Pied Piper of communism.
  7. It’s about to win another four years here. Just watched Charles Murray talking about immigration and saying he would never ever vote Trump. In a choice between evil and incompetent Murray is indifferent, and he perceives what is at stake! The very existence of America as we know it, or knew it anyways.

    There’s no way the lumpen proletariat make their voice heard here, and once this election is over its Katie bar the door.

    No offense Steve but the entire baby boomer generation can burn in hell for all I care.

    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @415 reasons

    Murray is pre boomer

    Replies: @415 reasons, @dfordoom

    , @Blobby5
    @415 reasons

    I too was saddened to hear he wouldn't vote Trump ( via Derb ) what is wrong with these people?

    Replies: @rod1963

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @415 reasons


    ... a choice between evil and incompetent ...
     
    This election does not provide that choice. Clinton's entire career has been a series of epic public disasters played out against a background of obscene levels of political corruption. Her bellicose fixation on Russia suggests to me that her ultimate goal is WW III.

    Herewith follows a very partial list of Clinton's evil and incompetence:

    Failed DC bar exam

    Denied recommendations because of dishonesty and other unethical behavior when her position with the House Judiciary Committee investigating Watergate ended

    Involved in a series of financial scandals as Arkansas’s first “lady”, e.g., Whitewater, the $100,000 instant profit on commodity markets using “loaned” money then both initiated and botched the Whitewater cover up;

    It's hard to beat this Mengelian level of evil: While Bill was governor of Arkansas he and Hillary made an under-the-table profit selling HIV tainted blood from Arkansas prisons to Canada. Estimates of the AIDS deaths caused by this homicidal scam range from 4,000 to 10,000. Even for the Clintons this is so appalling - and the MSM cover up so thorough - that I will provide a link for the lazy: https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/1999/may/15/tainted-plasma-traced-to-arkansas-prison-bill-clintons-blood-trails/

    Put in charge of crafting the Clinton health insurance policy initiative then failed in a disastrous way that put off the possibilities of another Democrat bill for twenty years;

    Partnered with Bill in admitting Poland to NATO, starting a new round of unnecessary hostilities with Russia. [George Kennon describes this as one of the greatest diplomatic blunders of the 20th century.];

    Caught red-handed stealing furniture from the White House followed by an unsuccesful coverup;

    Was losing NY senate election until Bill stepped in;

    Lost a “sure thing” presidential nomination to the relatively unknown Obama;

    When Hillary Rodham Clinton became Secretary of State one of her legal obligations was to appoint an Inspector General for the State Department. She never did and for her entire term in office the State Department lacked an IG. This was a gross and utterly unprecedented violation of federal law. It strongly suggests that Clinton was planning illegal conduct in office before she even took her oath and was preparing mechanisms to enable her planned criminal acts.

    Within two weeks of becoming Secretary of State committed an epic diplomatic faux pas that caused Whitehall to publicly and officially repudiate the century long “special relation” between the UK and the USA;

    A bit later her incredibly stupid “reset button” gimmick publicly embarrassed Russian officials and widened the rift the Clintons had so assiduously created;

    Fomented, aided and abetted the so-called “Arab Spring” which has permanently destabilized much of North Africa;

    Fomented the overthrow of Qadafi in Libya which has turned that country into a failed anarchic mess and a haven for Islamo-fascist terrorists and helped spread terrorist movements like Boko Haram into much of central Africa;

    Failed utterly to protect US diplomats in Benghazi and lied through her teeth about the causes of that disaster and the role she played in it;

    Started the disastrous US intervention in Syria;

    While Secretary she violated an oath she took after being trained in how to handle classified materials, violated directly several section of the USC regarding the handling of such materials, and as a result exposed many US humint and elint intelligence sources [people may have died as a result];

    Continuously lied to the Congress, the Secretary of State Inspector General (appointed by Sec. Kerry soon after he took his oath of office), and the American public about every aspect of this situation.

    While Secretary her office and underlings negotiated deals with individuals and groups from which Clinton or her “foundation” had received emoluments, giving at least the appearance of pay-to-play and once again violating provisions of the USC.

    Clinton-inspired and directed interventions in Kosovo which led to the establishment of an anarchic region on the southern flank of Europe engaged in a massive narcotics trade and serving as a reservoir and exporter of Islamo-fascism and terrorism

    While Secretary of State Clinton oversaw an engineered putsch which overthrew the legitimate and elected government of Ukraine and replaced it with a corrupt, unstable, and illegitimate successor regime. As a result, and as might have been expected, Russia supported the secession of ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine from this state resulting in a simmering civil war.

    Perhaps not coincidentally just before this one of the Ukrainian oligarch beneficiaries of this disaster had made a donation of tens of millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation, which is basically a slush fund for Bill and Hill to pillage at will.

    Replies: @Darin, @AnotherDad

    , @Frau Katze
    @415 reasons

    Yes, I watched that too. There is zero chance of a restriction in low skilled migrants if Clinton wins. WTF is he thinking?

    Replies: @415 reasons

  8. @anon930

    Imagine there's no heaven
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    Imagine all the people living life in peace

    Imagine no possessions
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
     
    This is why I'm not a liberal. Lennon's view of human nature is completely different from my own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @415 reasons, @22pp22, @22pp22, @Santoculto, @Critical Eye

    I mean sharing women in the pre-HIV era sounds pretty good but the rest of the hippie BS is pretty stupid. Of course the baby boomers left my generation w tourist shops on Haight street, Ben and Jerrys socialism and HIV, the free hetero sex had long since dried up.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @415 reasons


    I mean sharing women in the pre-HIV era sounds pretty good but the rest of the hippie BS is pretty stupid.
     
    Sharing women is actually the *worst* part of the hippie b.s. what inevitably rips apart any sort of hippieish commune thing.

    You're right it *sounds* pretty good to a single guy at 20, "lots of sex with different women!" with no thought of kids in the picture. But it simply doesn't match the way men *and* women are wired up. Just like there are gals we think are hotter, there are guys women think are more compelling--i.e. alpha. The gals will all flock around him\them. The guys on the bottom of the totem pole won't be so happy. There are good evo-bio reasons for male jealousy--kids. (And this doesn't even get into female jealousies.)

    When you get on to kids then these fractures really rip open. No man wants to work and bust his ass for other people's kids. Ok, some guys will do it as social work. (I'm still scoutmastering though my boy is long out of the troop we founded.) But no guy wants to have all his labor going to another man's kids. To devote his attention\care for a woman and her children men are going to want her to be *his* woman and those children to be *his* children.

    The reality is the only sexual program compatible with civilization is monogamy--marriage. Romantic love and its precursor jealousy are evolutionary adaptations to keep men and women together for extra provision for\development of kids. They are not "backward", they are "forward" allowing us to develop beyond lower animals. "Free love", "sexual liberation"--the feminist "women can do whatever"--are not advanced, but primitive, characteristic of lower creatures and cultures.

    As i've said before with the current regime of liberation, illegitimacy and single momery, we've left civilization and moved to some sort of African sexual regime, with the super-state in the role of the African big-man. (Many women are essentially brides of the state.) It only "works" because of the cultural "momentum" of the West and lots of saps like me taking care of their family then paying for all the "liberated" women and their fatherless kids. But it's no more sustainable long term then those hippy communes.

    Replies: @Kylie, @L Woods

  9. Ha, Lennonism – great term

  10. @anon930

    Imagine there's no heaven
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    Imagine all the people living life in peace

    Imagine no possessions
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
     
    This is why I'm not a liberal. Lennon's view of human nature is completely different from my own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @415 reasons, @22pp22, @22pp22, @Santoculto, @Critical Eye

    Lennon Yoko Ono amassed a fairly impressive pile of possessions.

    • Replies: @Darin
    @22pp22


    Lennon Yoko Ono amassed a fairly impressive pile of possessions.
     
    So did Clinton family and the rest of the world leaders, and i do not see them giving them away.
  11. @anon930

    Imagine there's no heaven
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    Imagine all the people living life in peace

    Imagine no possessions
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
     
    This is why I'm not a liberal. Lennon's view of human nature is completely different from my own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @415 reasons, @22pp22, @22pp22, @Santoculto, @Critical Eye

    John and Yoko amassed an impressive pile of possessions.

    • Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    @22pp22

    "John and Yoko amassed an impressive pile of possessions."
    You can say that again.

  12. @22pp22
    @anon930

    John and Yoko amassed an impressive pile of possessions.

    Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...

    “John and Yoko amassed an impressive pile of possessions.”
    You can say that again.

  13. @Glossy
    Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it's often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn't get passed on much. It's still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Realist, @Father O'Hara, @James Kabala, @Darin, @Anonymous, @Assistant Village Idiot

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter – particularly in the latter half of the Beatles’ career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    • Replies: @Cletus Rothschild
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Absolute nonsense. Anyone who's familiar with the songs that were cowritten by Lennon/McCartney knows which were primarily written by whom, and Lennon's were very easily of equal stature.

    Replies: @Glossy, @Hapalong Cassidy

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    You can generally tell who wrote what Beatle song by who sang lead. John and Paul did some beautiful harmonies - Baby's in Black, etc.

    Lennon's worst song by far is So This is Christmas, which they play to death around here in December, not realizing (or caring) that it is an anti-war song.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Former Darfur
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    John and Paul were like the Good Kirk and Bad Kirk in that one Star Trek episode. Together they were an effective team. Paul, a nice guy but sappy and without balls or anger, John a jerk who acted selfishly without stint (dumping the band, in essense, for the unattractive and older Yoko Ono was nothing if not supremely self centered) but who had the hardness and the energy and the sexual drive to make rock and roll music. On their own Paul came up with poor-man's Tin Pan Alley, and John made records that were even then un-radioworthy and often abrasive.

    Replies: @SFG

    , @Flip
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    I agree with this, and think that Yoko introducing John to heroin didn't help. Paul's mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven. Take the White Album and split it into Paul and John songs, and the Paul side is far better.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Kylie

    , @2Mintzin1
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Must disagree about Lennon's voice, it was strong , clear, and in my opinion a superior instrument to McCartney's voice. And George Martin agrees with me.

    No doubt John was a poor guitarist, esp. compared to McCartney, who was a creative master of the bass guitar...he could also sing lead while playing, which ain't easy.

    Songwriting? I think Lennon started out as McCartney's creative equal (see, e.g., Rubber Soul) but declined more quickly...by the time the Beatles broke up, John just was not able to create as many original musical ideas as McCartney.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @flyingtiger
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    I agree. Both the original McCarthy and the guy who replaced him in 1967 were better singers, songwriters and musicians.

    Replies: @Bob Smith of Suburbia

  14. If you want a Maynard/Tool song for the Alt-Right, may I humbly suggest “Aenima” followed by “46 and 2”.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @BenKenobi

    Tool's Vicarious.

    The universe is hostile, so am I.

    , @larry lurker
    @BenKenobi


    “46 and 2″
     
    I'm gonna be tapping in 7/8 for the rest of the day now.
  15. @Glossy
    Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it's often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn't get passed on much. It's still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Realist, @Father O'Hara, @James Kabala, @Darin, @Anonymous, @Assistant Village Idiot

    Man can be a non belligerent but still kill those who try to kill him.

  16. National borders are ‘the worst invention ever’, says EC chief Jean-Claude Juncker

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/national-borders-are-the-worst-invention-ever-says-ec-chief-jean-claude-juncker-a7204006.html

    If you came from Luxembourg or Belgium, maybe it’s understandable.

  17. Actually it makes perfect sense for a superpower to propagate lennonism. Whether the superpower be at the individual level, like John Lennon, or at a national level, like the United States which continues to spread his ideas long after his death.

    What does the top dog, the alpha, the silver back gorilla, want more than anything? To keep the rest of the herd timid, meek, fawning and peaceful, so they can never get their act together and violently challenge his power.

    So he preaches the false virtues of lennonism. Telling third world countries to not be protectionist, though America was very protectionist and militaristic during the centuries of its ascent. Telling nerdy betas to share their women, knowing full well that while all those women Will crave Lennon, none of Lennon’s women will ever even glance at those betas.

    • Agree: L Woods
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @thinkingabout it


    Telling nerdy betas to share their women, knowing full well that while all those women Will crave Lennon, none of Lennon’s women will ever even glance at those betas.
     
    I think your analogy is in many ways apt, but . . . Yoko seems an acquired taste for a palette more refined than mine will ever be.

    Replies: @2Mintzin1, @The Alarmist

  18. It’s only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with “Imagine.”

    • Replies: @Darin
    @JohnnyD


    It’s only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with “Imagine.”
     
    Yes, it is seriously coming. After this, names of Washington and Jefferson will be deleted from the map.

    Colin Kaepernick Is Righter Than You Know: The National Anthem Is a Celebration of Slavery
    https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-is-righter-than-you-know-the-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @SFG
    @JohnnyD

    They'd pick something by a woman of color which is utterly forgettable. 'Imagine', whatever you think of its political message, is a good song.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Clifford Brown
    @JohnnyD

    Impromptu singing of The Star Spangled Banner at sunrise during the Ryder Cup.

    https://twitter.com/BrendanPorath/status/782193700986232833/video/1

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @JohnnyD


    It’s only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with “Imagine.”
     
    Ironically, the latter was composed in America, the former in England. Only the words are American. Which makes it weird at the Olympic medal ceremony. We need a native melody for that. (Dixie, perhaps?)
  19. Michael Barone’s come a way, hasn’t he?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @IHTG


    Michael Barone’s come a way, hasn’t he?

     

    Romney's defeat was a traumatic experience for him.
  20. from a once (and still) widely held perspective “imagine “may be the most evil song ever written

  21. @415 reasons
    It's about to win another four years here. Just watched Charles Murray talking about immigration and saying he would never ever vote Trump. In a choice between evil and incompetent Murray is indifferent, and he perceives what is at stake! The very existence of America as we know it, or knew it anyways.

    There's no way the lumpen proletariat make their voice heard here, and once this election is over its Katie bar the door.

    No offense Steve but the entire baby boomer generation can burn in hell for all I care.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Blobby5, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Frau Katze

    Murray is pre boomer

    • Replies: @415 reasons
    @AndrewR

    He's 3 years younger than John Lennon was.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @dfordoom
    @AndrewR


    Murray is pre boomer
     
    And it's worth remembering that Lennon was not a Baby Boomer either.

    For those that want a generation to hate, hate the pre-boomer generation. They're the ones that began the destruction of our civilisation.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  22. @22pp22
    @anon930

    Lennon Yoko Ono amassed a fairly impressive pile of possessions.

    Replies: @Darin

    Lennon Yoko Ono amassed a fairly impressive pile of possessions.

    So did Clinton family and the rest of the world leaders, and i do not see them giving them away.

  23. @Glossy
    Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it's often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn't get passed on much. It's still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Realist, @Father O'Hara, @James Kabala, @Darin, @Anonymous, @Assistant Village Idiot

    I’d think the warriors among us are the ones who do the dyin’? The pacifists stay back and try to get the girls.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @Father O'Hara

    That only works in the relatively rare case (though more the rule for U.S. wars) that there's a "back" to stay at indefinitely. I'd also add that historically, forward-deployed combatants did a really good job of spreading their genes via willing and unwilling women.

  24. Michael Barone has been one of the biggest boosters of mass immigration to the US.

  25. @JohnnyD
    It's only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with "Imagine."

    Replies: @Darin, @SFG, @Clifford Brown, @Reg Cæsar

    It’s only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with “Imagine.”

    Yes, it is seriously coming. After this, names of Washington and Jefferson will be deleted from the map.

    Colin Kaepernick Is Righter Than You Know: The National Anthem Is a Celebration of Slavery
    https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-is-righter-than-you-know-the-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Darin


    Yes, it is seriously coming. After this, names of Washington and Jefferson will be deleted from the map.
     
    Maybe so. Cf things like the removal of Jefferson and Jackson's names from Jefferson-Jackson Day Democratic fundraisers:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson%E2%80%93Jackson_Day

    And then there's the move to get rid of the statue honoring Old Hickory in New Orleans' Jackson Square:

    http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2016/09/new_orleans_monuments_1.html

    The juxtaposition of drumbeats and chants of "No justice, no peace" filled the air on Saturday afternoon (Sept. 24) as hundreds marched toward Jackson Square in an act of protest against the four New Orleans monuments honoring Civil War era figures. For more photos from the protest, click here.

    Take 'Em Down NOLA arrived at Jackson Square at 2:17 p.m., where a horse-mounted New Orleans Police patrol blocked access to the Andrew Jackson monument. At one point, protesters could be heard chanting, "We can't get no satisfaction until you take down Andrew Jackson," and some threw liquid-filled balloons at the NOPD command vehicle and spattered EMS Deputy Chief Ken Bouvier of EMS.

     

    http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/09/jackson_square_protest.html
  26. Was it a millionaire who said “imagine no possessions”?
    A poor little schoolboy who said “we don’t need no lessons”?
    The rabid rebel dogs ransack the shampoo shop
    The pop princess is downtown shooting up
    And if that goddess is fit for burning
    The sun will struggle up, the world will still keep turning

    http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/index.php/The_Other_Side_Of_Summer

  27. The key provision of the immigration bills was legalization of many or most of the estimated (by the Pew Research Center) 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States before border and workforce enforcement provisions could take effect. Both parties had political motives for this.

    Democrats favored it because they figured most of the newly legalized would vote for their party. Many Republicans, notably Bush, favored it because they didn’t want to see Texas and Florida go the way of California — where immigrant votes seemed to have made a Republican-leaning state safe Democratic.

    I don’t understand the bolded sentence?

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    @grmbl

    I think the idea is that supporting legalisation would make Hispanics think more favourably of Republicans. It's a good example of magical thinking.

    , @stillCARealist
    @grmbl

    Many Republicans used to think, "Democrats have their loyal non-white minority, we should have one too."

  28. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Glossy

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter - particularly in the latter half of the Beatles' career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild, @Jim Don Bob, @Former Darfur, @Flip, @2Mintzin1, @flyingtiger

    Absolute nonsense. Anyone who’s familiar with the songs that were cowritten by Lennon/McCartney knows which were primarily written by whom, and Lennon’s were very easily of equal stature.

    • Replies: @Glossy
    @Cletus Rothschild

    I disagree. McCartney is the best 20th-century songwriter I know of. I would put Paul Simon 2nd. Lennon, while good, isn't in the top 200 if you ask me.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Cletus Rothschild

    Well let's see, going by their most popular singles from1966-1970 McCartney wrote:
    Paperback Writer
    Eleanor Rigby
    Yellow Submarine (sung by Ringo)
    Penny Lane
    Hello Goodbye
    Hey Jude
    Get Back
    Let it Be
    The Long and Winding Road

    Lennon wrote:
    Strawberry Fields Forever
    All You Need is Love
    Come Together

    Good songs to be sure, but it's a quantity not quality issue. Maybe he was too busy protesting the war and obsessing over Yoko to write more songs.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild

  29. @BenKenobi
    If you want a Maynard/Tool song for the Alt-Right, may I humbly suggest "Aenima" followed by "46 and 2".

    Replies: @Brutusale, @larry lurker

    Tool’s Vicarious.

    The universe is hostile, so am I.

  30. A couple of problems with the quoted article: the author demonstrates profound intellectual laziness. Lennon was simply expressing a sadness about the state of the human spirit; he wasn’t naively suggesting that all of our troubles could be easily erased. On the contrary. And this idea that “we’ve tried and it hasn’t worked” is complete nonsense. Neoliberal globalization/financialization of the world in which the elite destroy the middle class through policies of war and third-worlding manufacturing is hardly what Lennon was advocating. To put his name on this crap is disgraceful. Lastly, Lennon was the first person to wind up saying that he was very much a work in progress throughout his life and he wasn’t asking people to model their lives on his.

  31. In related news:

    Czech president calls for mass deportations to “empty places” in north Africa or on “uninhabited Greek islands”

    https://www.ft.com/content/8bae2ec6-8725-11e6-bbbe-2a4dcea95797

  32. @415 reasons
    It's about to win another four years here. Just watched Charles Murray talking about immigration and saying he would never ever vote Trump. In a choice between evil and incompetent Murray is indifferent, and he perceives what is at stake! The very existence of America as we know it, or knew it anyways.

    There's no way the lumpen proletariat make their voice heard here, and once this election is over its Katie bar the door.

    No offense Steve but the entire baby boomer generation can burn in hell for all I care.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Blobby5, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Frau Katze

    I too was saddened to hear he wouldn’t vote Trump ( via Derb ) what is wrong with these people?

    • Replies: @rod1963
    @Blobby5

    Charles Murray is employed by AEI, as such he has to ape the party line if he wants their money. Their positions on trade, immigration and secure borders runs counter to what Trump stands for, ergo Murray mouths the party line.

    Or maybe he's just another closet elitist who just despises lower class whites.

    Who knows.

  33. Sorry he went the way he did, but he’s not doing damage anymore. “Imagine no possessions”? Really? The man with more possessions than anyone, writing that lyric? What the hell was HE trying to pull? No possessions for whom? Ah, shit, I could poke holes in all his music, but he was just stacking cash in the end. The music notwithstanding, the guy was a leftist freak, he went on my “got no time for list” when that song came out and I was probably 12 at the time. The entire hippy genre’ was destructive as hell, especially in academia once THEY were the “Establishment” they fought so ferociously. Just look at the mess and it looks damned near unrecoverable. Lennon was truly feminist, probably a homo, too. He did a lot of damage around the old Popsicle stand before his departure. The homo-looking longed-hair “hippies” that turned up with their dopey Lennon glasses at our school used to get beaten up for being faggy back then. We knew what to do about it, but all that changed, of course.

    Rest assured, Lennon would always have found a way to stay away from the “world as one” because:diversity. All the White and wealthy left make sure to always stay far and away clear of diversity. Diversity and the world of one are for the chumps.

    • Replies: @ussr andy
    @Jim Christian

    without 60's counter-culture everyone would be listening to "we don't want them in our schools" type tunes.
    music is truly one area something good came out of the 60's counter-culture (probably aided by the electronics revolution.)

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  34. @Glossy
    Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it's often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn't get passed on much. It's still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Realist, @Father O'Hara, @James Kabala, @Darin, @Anonymous, @Assistant Village Idiot

    It is also interesting that one of Lennon’s few good characteristics (although even this could be turned in a nasty direction) was his wit, yet this hardly ever showed up in his songs. The funny Beatles songs are all by McCartney – Paperback Writer, Penny Lane, Lovely Rita, Back in the U.S.S.R., Rocky Raccoon, She Came in though the Bathroom Window, probably a few more along those lines that don’t come immediately to mind. (Funny is not quite the right word here – none of those songs are laugh-out-loud hilarious, but they all have clever lyrics and a light touch.)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @James Kabala

    About Paul's humour...



    No Pakistanis (Get Back)
    ------------------------

    Spoken b4 song - "Who what that black man? Don't dig no Pakistanis, taking all the peoples jobs."

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    Ronan Relimun, was a Puatarican, working in another world.
    Want it thrown around, Se patiha mohican, livin' in the USA.

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    (Instrumental)

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    Pretty Ado Lamb, was a pakistani, living in another world,
    Want it thrown around, don't dig no pakistanis, taking all the people jobs.

    So get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    (Instrumental)

    Get back, get back, get back, get back.
    Get back, get back, get back, get back.

    Get back!
    Yeah,
    get back!
    Yeah!
    Yeah!
    Get back!

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  35. @thinkingabout it
    Actually it makes perfect sense for a superpower to propagate lennonism. Whether the superpower be at the individual level, like John Lennon, or at a national level, like the United States which continues to spread his ideas long after his death.

    What does the top dog, the alpha, the silver back gorilla, want more than anything? To keep the rest of the herd timid, meek, fawning and peaceful, so they can never get their act together and violently challenge his power.

    So he preaches the false virtues of lennonism. Telling third world countries to not be protectionist, though America was very protectionist and militaristic during the centuries of its ascent. Telling nerdy betas to share their women, knowing full well that while all those women Will crave Lennon, none of Lennon's women will ever even glance at those betas.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas

    Telling nerdy betas to share their women, knowing full well that while all those women Will crave Lennon, none of Lennon’s women will ever even glance at those betas.

    I think your analogy is in many ways apt, but . . . Yoko seems an acquired taste for a palette more refined than mine will ever be.

    • Replies: @2Mintzin1
    @Alec Leamas

    Yeah, my palate needs refining too...remember the "Rock & Roll Circus" where Yoko was tied up in a bag onstage and accompanied the band by wordless howling?
    Some kind of Peak Yokoism, there.

    , @The Alarmist
    @Alec Leamas


    "Yoko seems an acquired taste for a palette more refined than mine will ever be."
     
    Kind of like old sushi.
  36. @Father O'Hara
    @Glossy

    I'd think the warriors among us are the ones who do the dyin'? The pacifists stay back and try to get the girls.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas

    That only works in the relatively rare case (though more the rule for U.S. wars) that there’s a “back” to stay at indefinitely. I’d also add that historically, forward-deployed combatants did a really good job of spreading their genes via willing and unwilling women.

  37. @Mr. Anon
    @anon930

    "This is why I’m not a liberal. Lennon’s view of human nature is completely different from my own."

    I agree. Such a world could only be realized by souless and pitiless tyrants - men who claim to love "the people", but who hate actual people.

    Replies: @Dr. X

    “This is why I’m not a liberal. Lennon’s view of human nature is completely different from my own.”

    I agree. Such a world could only be realized by souless and pitiless tyrants – men who claim to love “the people”, but who hate actual people.

    In other words, Lennon was the Pied Piper of communism.

  38. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A Trump loss means the old America is gone for good. Here are some tactics which can be helpful in the new America and thwarting the secret police. From an old OSS field manual on sabotage:

    https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/CleanedUOSSSimpleSabotage_sm.pdf

    (12) General Devices for Lowering Morale amd Creating Confusion

    (a) Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations when questioned.
    (b) Report danger to the police.
    (c) Act stupid.
    (d) Be as irritable and, quarrelsome as possible. without getting yourself into trouble…

    Managers and Supervisors: To lower morale and production, be pleasant to inefficient workers; give them undeserved promotions. Discriminate against efficient workers; complain unjustly about their work.

    Employees: Work slowly. Think of ways to increase the number of movements needed to do your job: use a light hammer instead of a heavy one; try to make a small wrench do instead of a big one.

    Organizations and Conferences: When possible, refer all matters to committees, for “further study and consideration.” Attempt to make the committees as large and bureaucratic as possible. Hold conferences when there is more critical work to be done.

    Telephone: At office, hotel and local telephone switchboards, delay putting calls through, give out wrong numbers, cut people off “accidentally,” or forget to disconnect them so that the line cannot be used again.

    Transportation: Make train travel as inconvenient as possible for enemy personnel. Issue two tickets for the same seat on a train in order to set up an “interesting” argument.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Anonymous

    Isn't this a synopsis of how things have been ever since ... oh, about the 1970's?

  39. @AndrewR
    @415 reasons

    Murray is pre boomer

    Replies: @415 reasons, @dfordoom

    He’s 3 years younger than John Lennon was.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @415 reasons


    He’s 3 years younger than John Lennon was.
     
    You've got to draw these somewhat arbitrary generational lines somewhere.

    One of my mom's younger sisters also a very late Silent--born a year earlier than Murray. There's no doubt that such folks who grew up in the pleasant 1950s and have *no* memory of the depression and the war are very very different sorts of folks than people like my parents for whom those experiences were absolutely formative, and more similar to the experiences of the early boomers.

    Yet ... the boomers are "a thing". The boom, boomed when the GIs got home from the war. My mom's youngest sister (baby of family) was born in '46--a lead boomer along with Bill Clinton, W, Mitt Romney, Trump, Hillary--and she, only a few years younger than her big sis, is in a different pond with different experiences and perspectives more akin to say my oldest cousin who flew helicopters in Vietnam (not all of which landed gently--4 purple hearts, bronze star, DFC). (Of course even the lead boomer gals don't actually have that experience, so Hillary compensates by bombing other countries.)

    In short ... you gotta draw a line somewhere.

    ~~~
    BTW, the real generational question is why we're still stuck with these annoying, now geriatric lead boomers--Trump and Hillary--as our Presidential candidates? As much as i admire "the Donald" for picking up the immigration "$100 bill on the sidewalk" and running with it, giving us the first nationalist campaign and actual "choice not an echo" in a long while ... he's clearly an old guy and not as sharp as he should be. And Hillary, holy cow what a shameless exercise in vanity.

    I'm not as sharp as i was at 20--seeing my son perform mentally reminds me of it--but i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates. Why can't we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime--say a 58 year old, '58er like Steve?

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Desiderius

  40. So what does Lennon’s song have to do with importing immigrant slave laborers while maintaining a state of perpetual war against hapless third tier states, while just barely avoiding a superpower conflict?

    WealthTrack Web Extra: Meticulous financial analyst Bruce Berkowitz endorses Trump because of the quality of his advisors. Maybe Trump should point out that the people around Clinton are all deranged retreads from past administrations who know their privileges will be gone in a Trump administration.

    http://wealthtrack.com/berkowitz-residential-team/

    or if they correct the spelling

    http://wealthtrack.com/berkowitz-presidential-team/

  41. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Glossy

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter - particularly in the latter half of the Beatles' career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild, @Jim Don Bob, @Former Darfur, @Flip, @2Mintzin1, @flyingtiger

    You can generally tell who wrote what Beatle song by who sang lead. John and Paul did some beautiful harmonies – Baby’s in Black, etc.

    Lennon’s worst song by far is So This is Christmas, which they play to death around here in December, not realizing (or caring) that it is an anti-war song.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jim Don Bob

    So This is Christmas would have been merely dreadful if someone hadn't been strangling a cat for the background vocals. But that puts it in a class by itself.

    Imagine is one of the biggest steaming piles in history as well. And it's a shame he was killed right after Double Fantasy came out, because that led to that entire piece of dreck to ruin an entire year of music radio by being overplayed.

  42. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Glossy

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter - particularly in the latter half of the Beatles' career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild, @Jim Don Bob, @Former Darfur, @Flip, @2Mintzin1, @flyingtiger

    John and Paul were like the Good Kirk and Bad Kirk in that one Star Trek episode. Together they were an effective team. Paul, a nice guy but sappy and without balls or anger, John a jerk who acted selfishly without stint (dumping the band, in essense, for the unattractive and older Yoko Ono was nothing if not supremely self centered) but who had the hardness and the energy and the sexual drive to make rock and roll music. On their own Paul came up with poor-man’s Tin Pan Alley, and John made records that were even then un-radioworthy and often abrasive.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Former Darfur

    I'd drop the 'balls' bit (Paul seems to have had ample testosterone), but yeah, they're kind of a Kirk-and-Spock team to continue the metaphor. The combo of Paul's musical talent and John's experimentalism made a lot of great music.

  43. @Cletus Rothschild
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Absolute nonsense. Anyone who's familiar with the songs that were cowritten by Lennon/McCartney knows which were primarily written by whom, and Lennon's were very easily of equal stature.

    Replies: @Glossy, @Hapalong Cassidy

    I disagree. McCartney is the best 20th-century songwriter I know of. I would put Paul Simon 2nd. Lennon, while good, isn’t in the top 200 if you ask me.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Glossy

    McCartney was the tunesmith, Lennon was the wordsmith. Together they were golden, or at least a good backup band for one another. Separately, McCartney has lived on a lot of nostalgia coupled with a few memorable but sappy tunes (look at my love and its 'Wo wo wo wo' refrain ... Lennon could have made that a hit), and Lennon had the potential to crank out some really good stuff after his hiatus; Listen again to his stuff on Double Fantasy and you can only wonder what was ahead of him but for the assassination. To say Lennon wouldn't make the top 200 is a somewhat uninformed opinion.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  44. @Cletus Rothschild
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Absolute nonsense. Anyone who's familiar with the songs that were cowritten by Lennon/McCartney knows which were primarily written by whom, and Lennon's were very easily of equal stature.

    Replies: @Glossy, @Hapalong Cassidy

    Well let’s see, going by their most popular singles from1966-1970 McCartney wrote:
    Paperback Writer
    Eleanor Rigby
    Yellow Submarine (sung by Ringo)
    Penny Lane
    Hello Goodbye
    Hey Jude
    Get Back
    Let it Be
    The Long and Winding Road

    Lennon wrote:
    Strawberry Fields Forever
    All You Need is Love
    Come Together

    Good songs to be sure, but it’s a quantity not quality issue. Maybe he was too busy protesting the war and obsessing over Yoko to write more songs.

    • Replies: @Cletus Rothschild
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    "going by their most popular singles"

    A less than admirable attempt at goal-post shifting there.

  45. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Glossy

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter - particularly in the latter half of the Beatles' career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild, @Jim Don Bob, @Former Darfur, @Flip, @2Mintzin1, @flyingtiger

    I agree with this, and think that Yoko introducing John to heroin didn’t help. Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven. Take the White Album and split it into Paul and John songs, and the Paul side is far better.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Flip


    Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.
     
    The things you get to read in iSteve comments.
    , @Kylie
    @Flip

    "Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven."

    No, Schubert's mid and late stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.

    Paul isn't even in the same creative cosmos.

    Replies: @Polymath, @Peripatetic commenter, @SPMoore8, @SPMoore8

  46. @grmbl

    The key provision of the immigration bills was legalization of many or most of the estimated (by the Pew Research Center) 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States before border and workforce enforcement provisions could take effect. Both parties had political motives for this.

    Democrats favored it because they figured most of the newly legalized would vote for their party. Many Republicans, notably Bush, favored it because they didn't want to see Texas and Florida go the way of California — where immigrant votes seemed to have made a Republican-leaning state safe Democratic.
     
    I don't understand the bolded sentence?

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @stillCARealist

    I think the idea is that supporting legalisation would make Hispanics think more favourably of Republicans. It’s a good example of magical thinking.

  47. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Glossy

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter - particularly in the latter half of the Beatles' career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild, @Jim Don Bob, @Former Darfur, @Flip, @2Mintzin1, @flyingtiger

    Must disagree about Lennon’s voice, it was strong , clear, and in my opinion a superior instrument to McCartney’s voice. And George Martin agrees with me.

    No doubt John was a poor guitarist, esp. compared to McCartney, who was a creative master of the bass guitar…he could also sing lead while playing, which ain’t easy.

    Songwriting? I think Lennon started out as McCartney’s creative equal (see, e.g., Rubber Soul) but declined more quickly…by the time the Beatles broke up, John just was not able to create as many original musical ideas as McCartney.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @2Mintzin1

    Well, you're in the minority. John could barely sing on key (and George Harrison never fully could which is why he benefitted from Phil Spector's "wall of sound" studio technique that helps hide a singer's flaws). Nobody of any creative musical critical opinion has ever rated John's singing voice ahead of McCartney, who was bar far the best of the Beatles at singing on key, with actual pitch, range, etc. Where John would screetch higher notes, McCartney could easily sing much higher than his normal range (on key, and without much effort and with no screetching). Example: 1965's "I'm Down". John would've butchered that song cause he didn't have the range to sing the higher notes that McCartney could.

    George Martin never said John was a better singer. If you want to compare singers in general, John comes nowhere close to Frank Sinatra, one of the 20th century's greatest pure singers in pop music, ever.

    Replies: @2Mintzin1

  48. Lennonism is the default value of women, untethered by children and a massive genetic investment in man. Think about it; no competition with war heroes and soldiers, lots of dynastic hectoring, its a Hillary Clinton world.

    Heck Barbara Bush (George W’s daughter) was partying with Huma Abedin and some Hollywood actress at a fundraiser for Hillary in Paris, plans to vote for Hillary.

    That’s the whole point — a dynastic global society is the only outcome of a world without borders. Its what really rich Alpha dudes and women want; and it screws over beta males. Just like Islam is a good deal for women, which is why they defend the burqua (fat covering garment that reduces inter-female hotness competition for the few Alpha dudes) and Islam (women share big shot Alphas). And men detest Islam (since they not women end up as the slaves).

    • Replies: @ussr andy
    @Whiskey


    That’s the whole point — a dynastic global society is the only outcome of a world without borders.
     
    it also looks suspiciously like feudalism, the thing nation states came to replace. a dynastic global society that is answerable to one another and the Pope instead of the local population.
    , @Perplexed
    @Whiskey

    "Islam is a good deal for women, which is why they defend the burqua (fat covering garment that reduces inter-female hotness competition for the few Alpha dudes) and Islam (women share big shot Alphas). And men detest Islam (since they not women end up as the slaves)."

    You don't seem to know much about Islam. All Muslims are slaves, and women more so. And it's only leftists that defend burkas.

    Clueless.

    Replies: @biz

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Whiskey

    I don't find it noteworthy that George W's daughter plans to vote for Hillary since George W himself as well as his father probably will vote for her too. Trump cannot be forgiven for torpedoing the Bush dynasty.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  49. Anonymous [AKA "da edsiluap"] says:
    @James Kabala
    @Glossy

    It is also interesting that one of Lennon's few good characteristics (although even this could be turned in a nasty direction) was his wit, yet this hardly ever showed up in his songs. The funny Beatles songs are all by McCartney - Paperback Writer, Penny Lane, Lovely Rita, Back in the U.S.S.R., Rocky Raccoon, She Came in though the Bathroom Window, probably a few more along those lines that don't come immediately to mind. (Funny is not quite the right word here - none of those songs are laugh-out-loud hilarious, but they all have clever lyrics and a light touch.)

    Replies: @Anonymous

    About Paul’s humour…

    No Pakistanis (Get Back)
    ————————

    Spoken b4 song – “Who what that black man? Don’t dig no Pakistanis, taking all the peoples jobs.”

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    Ronan Relimun, was a Puatarican, working in another world.
    Want it thrown around, Se patiha mohican, livin’ in the USA.

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    (Instrumental)

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    Pretty Ado Lamb, was a pakistani, living in another world,
    Want it thrown around, don’t dig no pakistanis, taking all the people jobs.

    So get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    (Instrumental)

    Get back, get back, get back, get back.
    Get back, get back, get back, get back.

    Get back!
    Yeah,
    get back!
    Yeah!
    Yeah!
    Get back!

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Anonymous

    Yeah, I have a recording of that proto version of Get Back ... You got some of the lines wrong, but you captured the general sentiment.

    "All the folks around
    don't dig no Pakistanis
    Tokin all the peoples' grass.

    Get Back (etc)"

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

  50. John Lennon was the guy who (before he was famous) used to walk up to British veterans who had lost their arms in WW2 and, as a joke, try to shake their hand. Even before I’d read that he had done this, I always saw an inherent cruelty residing in his humor. So, in the spirit of that humor, I guess I’d say if any of the Beatles had to get shot, I’m glad it was him.

    Why do everyday fools assign more competence to the entertainment class than they deserve? Would you want John Lennon designing the airplane you ride on? Of course not, he’s wasn’t qualified. So why would you want him designing the society you live in?

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    @J1234

    Lennon never got over being semi-abandoned as a child by his mother Julia, who handed him to her (childless) married sister Mimi. I wonder if the fact that she stayed around but wouldn't actually share a roof with him (she taught him banjo and guitar, and bought him his first instrument) made it worse. He wasn't a nice chap cos the hurt never went away. Did write a nice song to her though.

    Wiki


    "After numerous criticisms from the Stanley family about their (still-married) daughter 'living in sin' with John Dykins, and considerable pressure from Mimi—who twice contacted Liverpool's Social Services to complain about the infant Lennon sleeping in the same bed as Julia and Dykins—she reluctantly handed the care of Lennon over to Mimi and her husband, George Smith. In July 1946, Alf Lennon (John's father) visited Mimi's house and took Lennon to Blackpool for a long holiday, but he was secretly intending to emigrate to New Zealand with him. Julia and Dykins found out and followed them to Blackpool. Alf asked Julia to go with them both to New Zealand, but she refused. After a heated argument, Alf said their five-year-old child had to choose between his mother or him. He chose Alf (twice) so Julia walked away, but in the end her son (crying) followed her.

    She took John back to her house and enrolled him in a local school, but after few weeks she handed him back to Mimi."
     

    Plenty of Freudian dynamite there.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Sean

  51. @415 reasons
    It's about to win another four years here. Just watched Charles Murray talking about immigration and saying he would never ever vote Trump. In a choice between evil and incompetent Murray is indifferent, and he perceives what is at stake! The very existence of America as we know it, or knew it anyways.

    There's no way the lumpen proletariat make their voice heard here, and once this election is over its Katie bar the door.

    No offense Steve but the entire baby boomer generation can burn in hell for all I care.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Blobby5, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Frau Katze

    … a choice between evil and incompetent …

    This election does not provide that choice. Clinton’s entire career has been a series of epic public disasters played out against a background of obscene levels of political corruption. Her bellicose fixation on Russia suggests to me that her ultimate goal is WW III.

    Herewith follows a very partial list of Clinton’s evil and incompetence:

    Failed DC bar exam

    Denied recommendations because of dishonesty and other unethical behavior when her position with the House Judiciary Committee investigating Watergate ended

    Involved in a series of financial scandals as Arkansas’s first “lady”, e.g., Whitewater, the $100,000 instant profit on commodity markets using “loaned” money then both initiated and botched the Whitewater cover up;

    It’s hard to beat this Mengelian level of evil: While Bill was governor of Arkansas he and Hillary made an under-the-table profit selling HIV tainted blood from Arkansas prisons to Canada. Estimates of the AIDS deaths caused by this homicidal scam range from 4,000 to 10,000. Even for the Clintons this is so appalling – and the MSM cover up so thorough – that I will provide a link for the lazy: https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/1999/may/15/tainted-plasma-traced-to-arkansas-prison-bill-clintons-blood-trails/

    Put in charge of crafting the Clinton health insurance policy initiative then failed in a disastrous way that put off the possibilities of another Democrat bill for twenty years;

    Partnered with Bill in admitting Poland to NATO, starting a new round of unnecessary hostilities with Russia. [George Kennon describes this as one of the greatest diplomatic blunders of the 20th century.];

    Caught red-handed stealing furniture from the White House followed by an unsuccesful coverup;

    Was losing NY senate election until Bill stepped in;

    Lost a “sure thing” presidential nomination to the relatively unknown Obama;

    When Hillary Rodham Clinton became Secretary of State one of her legal obligations was to appoint an Inspector General for the State Department. She never did and for her entire term in office the State Department lacked an IG. This was a gross and utterly unprecedented violation of federal law. It strongly suggests that Clinton was planning illegal conduct in office before she even took her oath and was preparing mechanisms to enable her planned criminal acts.

    Within two weeks of becoming Secretary of State committed an epic diplomatic faux pas that caused Whitehall to publicly and officially repudiate the century long “special relation” between the UK and the USA;

    A bit later her incredibly stupid “reset button” gimmick publicly embarrassed Russian officials and widened the rift the Clintons had so assiduously created;

    Fomented, aided and abetted the so-called “Arab Spring” which has permanently destabilized much of North Africa;

    Fomented the overthrow of Qadafi in Libya which has turned that country into a failed anarchic mess and a haven for Islamo-fascist terrorists and helped spread terrorist movements like Boko Haram into much of central Africa;

    Failed utterly to protect US diplomats in Benghazi and lied through her teeth about the causes of that disaster and the role she played in it;

    Started the disastrous US intervention in Syria;

    While Secretary she violated an oath she took after being trained in how to handle classified materials, violated directly several section of the USC regarding the handling of such materials, and as a result exposed many US humint and elint intelligence sources [people may have died as a result];

    Continuously lied to the Congress, the Secretary of State Inspector General (appointed by Sec. Kerry soon after he took his oath of office), and the American public about every aspect of this situation.

    While Secretary her office and underlings negotiated deals with individuals and groups from which Clinton or her “foundation” had received emoluments, giving at least the appearance of pay-to-play and once again violating provisions of the USC.

    Clinton-inspired and directed interventions in Kosovo which led to the establishment of an anarchic region on the southern flank of Europe engaged in a massive narcotics trade and serving as a reservoir and exporter of Islamo-fascism and terrorism

    While Secretary of State Clinton oversaw an engineered putsch which overthrew the legitimate and elected government of Ukraine and replaced it with a corrupt, unstable, and illegitimate successor regime. As a result, and as might have been expected, Russia supported the secession of ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine from this state resulting in a simmering civil war.

    Perhaps not coincidentally just before this one of the Ukrainian oligarch beneficiaries of this disaster had made a donation of tens of millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation, which is basically a slush fund for Bill and Hill to pillage at will.

    • Replies: @Darin
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    You forgot the server fiasco and the most damning part of it - the "stonetear" guy, "IT professional" who used to run her server.

    Clintons can afford the world's best IT talent to run this crucial operation, and chose... this dweeb.

    Hillary Clinton’s IT guy asked Reddit for help altering emails, a Twitter sleuth claims

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/09/20/hillary-clintons-it-guy-asked-reddit-for-help-altering-emails-a-twitter-sleuth-claims/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/53hzsi/hillarys_it_guy_paul_combetta_aka_stonetear_has/

    , @AnotherDad
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Good list Just Sayin'.

    I'd add:
    -- her getting the child rapist off via evidence suppression and cackling about it; this is in the "evil" rather than "incompetent" bucket, but seems to be the big accomplishment of her legal career, so if you're summing up her legal career ...

    -- her enforcer tactics with the women of Bill's affairs\molesting\rape; Juanita Broderick reported Hillary approached her and gave her the we appreciate you keeping quiet talk

    -- her Iraq war vote; this was the most important vote of her eight years in the Senate and ... she got it wrong


    But yeah, whatever you think of Trump, he seems far more competent in his career than Hillary. We don't know how he'll do as a politician, though so far--mixed--he stunned the Republican field and completely sucked in the first debate. (Failing for instance to do much with Hillary's record.)

    But Hillary we know: evil *and* incompetent.

  52. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    You can generally tell who wrote what Beatle song by who sang lead. John and Paul did some beautiful harmonies - Baby's in Black, etc.

    Lennon's worst song by far is So This is Christmas, which they play to death around here in December, not realizing (or caring) that it is an anti-war song.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    So This is Christmas would have been merely dreadful if someone hadn’t been strangling a cat for the background vocals. But that puts it in a class by itself.

    Imagine is one of the biggest steaming piles in history as well. And it’s a shame he was killed right after Double Fantasy came out, because that led to that entire piece of dreck to ruin an entire year of music radio by being overplayed.

  53. I remember Michael Barone. Much like Mort Kondracke, he was always a hand-wringer about immigration. During the Bush years he would parrot the Rove party line and cry about how his Italian grandfather was called a certain six letter word. Now I suppose he’s trying to adapt in a vain attempt to stay relevant in a world that doesn’t need him.

    Don’t believe it.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Bert

    I disagree. I met MB at some DC think tank do wah in the 00s and he said he was basically a pollster.

  54. @Jim Christian
    Sorry he went the way he did, but he's not doing damage anymore. "Imagine no possessions"? Really? The man with more possessions than anyone, writing that lyric? What the hell was HE trying to pull? No possessions for whom? Ah, shit, I could poke holes in all his music, but he was just stacking cash in the end. The music notwithstanding, the guy was a leftist freak, he went on my "got no time for list" when that song came out and I was probably 12 at the time. The entire hippy genre' was destructive as hell, especially in academia once THEY were the "Establishment" they fought so ferociously. Just look at the mess and it looks damned near unrecoverable. Lennon was truly feminist, probably a homo, too. He did a lot of damage around the old Popsicle stand before his departure. The homo-looking longed-hair "hippies" that turned up with their dopey Lennon glasses at our school used to get beaten up for being faggy back then. We knew what to do about it, but all that changed, of course.

    Rest assured, Lennon would always have found a way to stay away from the "world as one" because:diversity. All the White and wealthy left make sure to always stay far and away clear of diversity. Diversity and the world of one are for the chumps.

    Replies: @ussr andy

    without 60’s counter-culture everyone would be listening to “we don’t want them in our schools” type tunes.
    music is truly one area something good came out of the 60’s counter-culture (probably aided by the electronics revolution.)

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @ussr andy

    And what music was truly good that came out of the sixties? I know, I know, commercially-snappy hooks and jingles, we hear them on the commercials, in stores and of course, the dentist and elevators. I remember a few of Led Zeplin's horrible, overplayed pieces were enhanced via accompaniment by symphonies, Chunks Of Led by PBS. A few others, too. Robert Klein did funny stuff with the Mancini School symphanies in his comedy routines. But seriously, what works of the sixties by the counterculture rock bands and those that followed will be remembered once they are dead and long gone, say by 2068?

    What 60's counterculture figure that wrote a one-hit wonder or a complete body of work will be remembered as one of the Greats in Music, not just the 60's? Not Lennon, not McCartney, not Jackson, nor John, nor Hendrix. Three chords with a hook and two verses repeated over 3 minutes' time to accommodate a commercial rotation on Top 40 does not a true classic make. Although, the Disc Jockeys DID love Stairway To Heaven because it was just long enough to leave the air studio, take a leak, cop a blowjob from a station-groupie and toot three lines to get them through the rest of their air shift.

    These will not be made Mozart or Bach by the stoned memories of misguided youth. They will disappear. Great orchestras will never do their pieces except for some novelty on Broadway, perhaps. Broadway scores from this era may endure, but not the 60s classic rock.

    Next thing is someone will tell me what a great era was Disco.

    Replies: @BB753

  55. @Glossy
    Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it's often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn't get passed on much. It's still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Realist, @Father O'Hara, @James Kabala, @Darin, @Anonymous, @Assistant Village Idiot

    For every man who runs forwards to war, hundreds are running away. You see it in Syria, Ukraine and everywhere else. This is not warrior’s world, this is not pacifists world, this is coward’s world.

  56. @anon930

    Imagine there's no heaven
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    Imagine all the people living life in peace

    Imagine no possessions
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
     
    This is why I'm not a liberal. Lennon's view of human nature is completely different from my own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @415 reasons, @22pp22, @22pp22, @Santoculto, @Critical Eye

    The main problem is not even the multi ethnicitism but multi culturalism. People kill more one each other because their ”cultural” differences than exactly because their ethnic differences and even when happen ethnic conflicts it tend to be driven by underlied cultural discrepancies.

    A multi ethnicitism with many people with different ethnicities and or races and narrowed or pretty similar point of views may be less complicated/conflictive than a lot of different cultures with discrepant point of views.

    Cultures, perfectly or not so, tends to reflex genetically/psychologically differences.

    Many if not most of human interpersonal conflicts born within families, because the intimacy we are forced to share with our relatives and surprise, humans tends to be socially dumb (still acting like ants)

    other underlied macro-problems that make human interactions so complicated is

    – the influence of hyper-masculine cultures/ naturally expansionist cultures,

    – the influence of anti-social personalities in any purposeful stupid action, for example, the rapefuelgees ”crisis”. I know Mèrdel is not that dumb old bitch, i know that she know exactly what she’s doing.

    PAX.

  57. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @415 reasons


    ... a choice between evil and incompetent ...
     
    This election does not provide that choice. Clinton's entire career has been a series of epic public disasters played out against a background of obscene levels of political corruption. Her bellicose fixation on Russia suggests to me that her ultimate goal is WW III.

    Herewith follows a very partial list of Clinton's evil and incompetence:

    Failed DC bar exam

    Denied recommendations because of dishonesty and other unethical behavior when her position with the House Judiciary Committee investigating Watergate ended

    Involved in a series of financial scandals as Arkansas’s first “lady”, e.g., Whitewater, the $100,000 instant profit on commodity markets using “loaned” money then both initiated and botched the Whitewater cover up;

    It's hard to beat this Mengelian level of evil: While Bill was governor of Arkansas he and Hillary made an under-the-table profit selling HIV tainted blood from Arkansas prisons to Canada. Estimates of the AIDS deaths caused by this homicidal scam range from 4,000 to 10,000. Even for the Clintons this is so appalling - and the MSM cover up so thorough - that I will provide a link for the lazy: https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/1999/may/15/tainted-plasma-traced-to-arkansas-prison-bill-clintons-blood-trails/

    Put in charge of crafting the Clinton health insurance policy initiative then failed in a disastrous way that put off the possibilities of another Democrat bill for twenty years;

    Partnered with Bill in admitting Poland to NATO, starting a new round of unnecessary hostilities with Russia. [George Kennon describes this as one of the greatest diplomatic blunders of the 20th century.];

    Caught red-handed stealing furniture from the White House followed by an unsuccesful coverup;

    Was losing NY senate election until Bill stepped in;

    Lost a “sure thing” presidential nomination to the relatively unknown Obama;

    When Hillary Rodham Clinton became Secretary of State one of her legal obligations was to appoint an Inspector General for the State Department. She never did and for her entire term in office the State Department lacked an IG. This was a gross and utterly unprecedented violation of federal law. It strongly suggests that Clinton was planning illegal conduct in office before she even took her oath and was preparing mechanisms to enable her planned criminal acts.

    Within two weeks of becoming Secretary of State committed an epic diplomatic faux pas that caused Whitehall to publicly and officially repudiate the century long “special relation” between the UK and the USA;

    A bit later her incredibly stupid “reset button” gimmick publicly embarrassed Russian officials and widened the rift the Clintons had so assiduously created;

    Fomented, aided and abetted the so-called “Arab Spring” which has permanently destabilized much of North Africa;

    Fomented the overthrow of Qadafi in Libya which has turned that country into a failed anarchic mess and a haven for Islamo-fascist terrorists and helped spread terrorist movements like Boko Haram into much of central Africa;

    Failed utterly to protect US diplomats in Benghazi and lied through her teeth about the causes of that disaster and the role she played in it;

    Started the disastrous US intervention in Syria;

    While Secretary she violated an oath she took after being trained in how to handle classified materials, violated directly several section of the USC regarding the handling of such materials, and as a result exposed many US humint and elint intelligence sources [people may have died as a result];

    Continuously lied to the Congress, the Secretary of State Inspector General (appointed by Sec. Kerry soon after he took his oath of office), and the American public about every aspect of this situation.

    While Secretary her office and underlings negotiated deals with individuals and groups from which Clinton or her “foundation” had received emoluments, giving at least the appearance of pay-to-play and once again violating provisions of the USC.

    Clinton-inspired and directed interventions in Kosovo which led to the establishment of an anarchic region on the southern flank of Europe engaged in a massive narcotics trade and serving as a reservoir and exporter of Islamo-fascism and terrorism

    While Secretary of State Clinton oversaw an engineered putsch which overthrew the legitimate and elected government of Ukraine and replaced it with a corrupt, unstable, and illegitimate successor regime. As a result, and as might have been expected, Russia supported the secession of ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine from this state resulting in a simmering civil war.

    Perhaps not coincidentally just before this one of the Ukrainian oligarch beneficiaries of this disaster had made a donation of tens of millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation, which is basically a slush fund for Bill and Hill to pillage at will.

    Replies: @Darin, @AnotherDad

    You forgot the server fiasco and the most damning part of it – the “stonetear” guy, “IT professional” who used to run her server.

    Clintons can afford the world’s best IT talent to run this crucial operation, and chose… this dweeb.

    Hillary Clinton’s IT guy asked Reddit for help altering emails, a Twitter sleuth claims

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/09/20/hillary-clintons-it-guy-asked-reddit-for-help-altering-emails-a-twitter-sleuth-claims/

    Hillary’s IT guy, Paul Combetta, aka stonetear, has deleted all of his comments and submissions on his reddit account. Here’s an overview for stonetear entire account archived. from conspiracy

  58. @Flip
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    I agree with this, and think that Yoko introducing John to heroin didn't help. Paul's mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven. Take the White Album and split it into Paul and John songs, and the Paul side is far better.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Kylie

    Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.

    The things you get to read in iSteve comments.

    • Agree: Perplexed, Kylie
  59. For God’s Sake.

    It’s a song. Not a serious political treatise.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @countenance

    "For God’s Sake.

    It’s a song. Not a serious political treatise."

    And "The New Collossus" was just a poem on a plaque on the base of a statue.

    And yet it now has, seemingly, the force of law.

    , @Alec Leamas
    @countenance

    Imagine if its author/singer and a whole generation hadn't treated it as a serious political treatise.

    In the context of the Cold War and its propaganda value it is unforgivable.

    , @JerryC
    @countenance

    It's a lefty polical treatise in the form of a song, that's why it sucks. Just like Billy Joel's "Tell Her About It" is relationship advice* in the form of a song, and also sucks.

    * It's bad relationship advice, from someone who should never have been giving anyone else relationship advice in the first place.

  60. @Whiskey
    Lennonism is the default value of women, untethered by children and a massive genetic investment in man. Think about it; no competition with war heroes and soldiers, lots of dynastic hectoring, its a Hillary Clinton world.

    Heck Barbara Bush (George W's daughter) was partying with Huma Abedin and some Hollywood actress at a fundraiser for Hillary in Paris, plans to vote for Hillary.

    That's the whole point -- a dynastic global society is the only outcome of a world without borders. Its what really rich Alpha dudes and women want; and it screws over beta males. Just like Islam is a good deal for women, which is why they defend the burqua (fat covering garment that reduces inter-female hotness competition for the few Alpha dudes) and Islam (women share big shot Alphas). And men detest Islam (since they not women end up as the slaves).

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Perplexed, @Harry Baldwin

    That’s the whole point — a dynastic global society is the only outcome of a world without borders.

    it also looks suspiciously like feudalism, the thing nation states came to replace. a dynastic global society that is answerable to one another and the Pope instead of the local population.

  61. @2Mintzin1
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Must disagree about Lennon's voice, it was strong , clear, and in my opinion a superior instrument to McCartney's voice. And George Martin agrees with me.

    No doubt John was a poor guitarist, esp. compared to McCartney, who was a creative master of the bass guitar...he could also sing lead while playing, which ain't easy.

    Songwriting? I think Lennon started out as McCartney's creative equal (see, e.g., Rubber Soul) but declined more quickly...by the time the Beatles broke up, John just was not able to create as many original musical ideas as McCartney.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Well, you’re in the minority. John could barely sing on key (and George Harrison never fully could which is why he benefitted from Phil Spector’s “wall of sound” studio technique that helps hide a singer’s flaws). Nobody of any creative musical critical opinion has ever rated John’s singing voice ahead of McCartney, who was bar far the best of the Beatles at singing on key, with actual pitch, range, etc. Where John would screetch higher notes, McCartney could easily sing much higher than his normal range (on key, and without much effort and with no screetching). Example: 1965’s “I’m Down”. John would’ve butchered that song cause he didn’t have the range to sing the higher notes that McCartney could.

    George Martin never said John was a better singer. If you want to compare singers in general, John comes nowhere close to Frank Sinatra, one of the 20th century’s greatest pure singers in pop music, ever.

    • Replies: @2Mintzin1
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Ah-ha! Martin did say that, in an interview available on you tube in which he recounts how he evaluated how to record the Beatles when he first met them ...he also dismissed Harrison's voice as the lesser voice in the group, pretty much as anyone would.

    McCartney had that choir-boy voice thing going on, a lot more sweet-sounding than Lennon, and very effective in e.g. "Let It Be."

    Frank Sinatra? Not sure how in hell he was worked into this discussion, but I was always a Tony Bennett guy.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  62. John Lennon playing Memphis with his musical hero Chuck Berry. Insane accompaniment by one Yoko Ono.

  63. @J1234
    John Lennon was the guy who (before he was famous) used to walk up to British veterans who had lost their arms in WW2 and, as a joke, try to shake their hand. Even before I'd read that he had done this, I always saw an inherent cruelty residing in his humor. So, in the spirit of that humor, I guess I'd say if any of the Beatles had to get shot, I'm glad it was him.

    Why do everyday fools assign more competence to the entertainment class than they deserve? Would you want John Lennon designing the airplane you ride on? Of course not, he's wasn't qualified. So why would you want him designing the society you live in?

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew

    Lennon never got over being semi-abandoned as a child by his mother Julia, who handed him to her (childless) married sister Mimi. I wonder if the fact that she stayed around but wouldn’t actually share a roof with him (she taught him banjo and guitar, and bought him his first instrument) made it worse. He wasn’t a nice chap cos the hurt never went away. Did write a nice song to her though.

    Wiki

    “After numerous criticisms from the Stanley family about their (still-married) daughter ‘living in sin’ with John Dykins, and considerable pressure from Mimi—who twice contacted Liverpool’s Social Services to complain about the infant Lennon sleeping in the same bed as Julia and Dykins—she reluctantly handed the care of Lennon over to Mimi and her husband, George Smith. In July 1946, Alf Lennon (John’s father) visited Mimi’s house and took Lennon to Blackpool for a long holiday, but he was secretly intending to emigrate to New Zealand with him. Julia and Dykins found out and followed them to Blackpool. Alf asked Julia to go with them both to New Zealand, but she refused. After a heated argument, Alf said their five-year-old child had to choose between his mother or him. He chose Alf (twice) so Julia walked away, but in the end her son (crying) followed her.

    She took John back to her house and enrolled him in a local school, but after few weeks she handed him back to Mimi.”

    Plenty of Freudian dynamite there.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Basically, Julia's mom was a whore. She also died in a car accident in 1958, and she was the subject of John's song, "Julia" off the White Album. Lennon's dad Alf was a much better man, based within the context of the times. He wanted to help raise him and give him a proper upbringing. Staying with Julia really messed him up a bit. And she was a whore. The other three Beatles didn't have nearly as bad an upbringing as did John.

    , @Sean
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Reading between the lines, John Lennon's biological mother was a bit of an alcoholic. She tried to interest him in sex with her (put his hand on her breast) on a visit while he was barely in his teens, according to what a friend of Lennon claimed to have heard from him. Lennon swung both ways.

  64. @Glossy
    @Cletus Rothschild

    I disagree. McCartney is the best 20th-century songwriter I know of. I would put Paul Simon 2nd. Lennon, while good, isn't in the top 200 if you ask me.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    McCartney was the tunesmith, Lennon was the wordsmith. Together they were golden, or at least a good backup band for one another. Separately, McCartney has lived on a lot of nostalgia coupled with a few memorable but sappy tunes (look at my love and its ‘Wo wo wo wo’ refrain … Lennon could have made that a hit), and Lennon had the potential to crank out some really good stuff after his hiatus; Listen again to his stuff on Double Fantasy and you can only wonder what was ahead of him but for the assassination. To say Lennon wouldn’t make the top 200 is a somewhat uninformed opinion.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @The Alarmist


    McCartney was the tunesmith, Lennon was the wordsmith
     
    Call me contrarian, but I say the opposite is true.

    McCartney wrote scads of good, solid, catchy tunes-- "Yesterday" being rather a ways down the list-- but were any as haunting as "In My Life", "There's a Place" (wretched lyrics in the bridge!), or "Not a Second Time"?

    Did Lennon's best lyrics even reach McCartney's throwaway gems like "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", "Maxwell's Silver Hammer", or "When I'm Sixty Four"? (The last is the closest either came to writing in the classic ABAC form, as far as I know. But I understand Sir Paul owns the rights to a number of college fight songs, a genre where it was the rule.)

    The most striking thing about the two is that they were so good together, but so mediocre apart. So it's not all HBD; environment counts a lot in this field.

    Incidentally, the only "golden age" American songwriting team that used the same write-apart-publish-together system was Hugh Martin and Ralph Blane. Blane wrote "Buckle Down, Winsocki" (speaking of fight songs) and Martin, or so Martin claimed years after Blane's death, everything else. But Blane got half the proceeds from "The Trolley Song" and "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas". Which Judy Garland refused to sing until Martin changed the line "It may be your last…". How Lennonesque!
  65. @Former Darfur
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    John and Paul were like the Good Kirk and Bad Kirk in that one Star Trek episode. Together they were an effective team. Paul, a nice guy but sappy and without balls or anger, John a jerk who acted selfishly without stint (dumping the band, in essense, for the unattractive and older Yoko Ono was nothing if not supremely self centered) but who had the hardness and the energy and the sexual drive to make rock and roll music. On their own Paul came up with poor-man's Tin Pan Alley, and John made records that were even then un-radioworthy and often abrasive.

    Replies: @SFG

    I’d drop the ‘balls’ bit (Paul seems to have had ample testosterone), but yeah, they’re kind of a Kirk-and-Spock team to continue the metaphor. The combo of Paul’s musical talent and John’s experimentalism made a lot of great music.

  66. Whenever globalists get together for one of those confabs where they pat each other on the back and tell each other what great guys they all are, they always seem to arrive in private jets, get chauffered around in limos, stay in swanky hotels, and partake of the finest eat and drink.

    Living small is for the little people.

  67. @JohnnyD
    It's only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with "Imagine."

    Replies: @Darin, @SFG, @Clifford Brown, @Reg Cæsar

    They’d pick something by a woman of color which is utterly forgettable. ‘Imagine’, whatever you think of its political message, is a good song.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @SFG

    No, it isn't. It's a dated hippy dippy semi-Marxist crapolla song. It has a nice melody but aside from that, it sucks.

    From around that time period, Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" is a good song. Don McLean's "Miss. American Pie" is a good song.

    "Imagine" sucks. Nice melody, but if one really thinks about the words, it isn't grounded in reality.

    Replies: @SFG

  68. @JohnnyD
    It's only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with "Imagine."

    Replies: @Darin, @SFG, @Clifford Brown, @Reg Cæsar

    Impromptu singing of The Star Spangled Banner at sunrise during the Ryder Cup.

    https://twitter.com/BrendanPorath/status/782193700986232833/video/1

  69. @countenance
    For God's Sake.

    It's a song. Not a serious political treatise.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Alec Leamas, @JerryC

    “For God’s Sake.

    It’s a song. Not a serious political treatise.”

    And “The New Collossus” was just a poem on a plaque on the base of a statue.

    And yet it now has, seemingly, the force of law.

  70. @Anonymous
    @James Kabala

    About Paul's humour...



    No Pakistanis (Get Back)
    ------------------------

    Spoken b4 song - "Who what that black man? Don't dig no Pakistanis, taking all the peoples jobs."

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    Ronan Relimun, was a Puatarican, working in another world.
    Want it thrown around, Se patiha mohican, livin' in the USA.

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    (Instrumental)

    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    Pretty Ado Lamb, was a pakistani, living in another world,
    Want it thrown around, don't dig no pakistanis, taking all the people jobs.

    So get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.
    Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.

    (Instrumental)

    Get back, get back, get back, get back.
    Get back, get back, get back, get back.

    Get back!
    Yeah,
    get back!
    Yeah!
    Yeah!
    Get back!

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    Yeah, I have a recording of that proto version of Get Back … You got some of the lines wrong, but you captured the general sentiment.

    “All the folks around
    don’t dig no Pakistanis
    Tokin all the peoples’ grass.

    Get Back (etc)”

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @The Alarmist

    The actual lyrics contain a transphobic slur:

    Sweet Loretta Martin thought she was a woman
    But she was another man
    All the girls around her say she's got it coming
    But she gets it while she can

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  71. @415 reasons
    @anon930

    I mean sharing women in the pre-HIV era sounds pretty good but the rest of the hippie BS is pretty stupid. Of course the baby boomers left my generation w tourist shops on Haight street, Ben and Jerrys socialism and HIV, the free hetero sex had long since dried up.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    I mean sharing women in the pre-HIV era sounds pretty good but the rest of the hippie BS is pretty stupid.

    Sharing women is actually the *worst* part of the hippie b.s. what inevitably rips apart any sort of hippieish commune thing.

    You’re right it *sounds* pretty good to a single guy at 20, “lots of sex with different women!” with no thought of kids in the picture. But it simply doesn’t match the way men *and* women are wired up. Just like there are gals we think are hotter, there are guys women think are more compelling–i.e. alpha. The gals will all flock around him\them. The guys on the bottom of the totem pole won’t be so happy. There are good evo-bio reasons for male jealousy–kids. (And this doesn’t even get into female jealousies.)

    When you get on to kids then these fractures really rip open. No man wants to work and bust his ass for other people’s kids. Ok, some guys will do it as social work. (I’m still scoutmastering though my boy is long out of the troop we founded.) But no guy wants to have all his labor going to another man’s kids. To devote his attention\care for a woman and her children men are going to want her to be *his* woman and those children to be *his* children.

    The reality is the only sexual program compatible with civilization is monogamy–marriage. Romantic love and its precursor jealousy are evolutionary adaptations to keep men and women together for extra provision for\development of kids. They are not “backward”, they are “forward” allowing us to develop beyond lower animals. “Free love”, “sexual liberation”–the feminist “women can do whatever”–are not advanced, but primitive, characteristic of lower creatures and cultures.

    As i’ve said before with the current regime of liberation, illegitimacy and single momery, we’ve left civilization and moved to some sort of African sexual regime, with the super-state in the role of the African big-man. (Many women are essentially brides of the state.) It only “works” because of the cultural “momentum” of the West and lots of saps like me taking care of their family then paying for all the “liberated” women and their fatherless kids. But it’s no more sustainable long term then those hippy communes.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @AnotherDad

    So well said. Thank you.

    , @L Woods
    @AnotherDad

    It's notable the extent to which extreme patriarchy and extreme female liberation grow in practice to resemble each other. In either case, the Big Man takes most of the women while the rest of the men are left little recourse but to engage in winner takes all, bloodied-tooth-and-claw struggle for the brass ring (or accept your lot as an asexual serf, which prosperity-driven stupefaction seems to facilitate).

    The negative implications for civilization are obvious. But with the oncoming divorce of labor from economic productivity combined with the advent of ever greater forms of mollifying prolefeed, I fear this is the only direction civilization is likely to head.

  72. @countenance
    For God's Sake.

    It's a song. Not a serious political treatise.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Alec Leamas, @JerryC

    Imagine if its author/singer and a whole generation hadn’t treated it as a serious political treatise.

    In the context of the Cold War and its propaganda value it is unforgivable.

  73. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @415 reasons


    ... a choice between evil and incompetent ...
     
    This election does not provide that choice. Clinton's entire career has been a series of epic public disasters played out against a background of obscene levels of political corruption. Her bellicose fixation on Russia suggests to me that her ultimate goal is WW III.

    Herewith follows a very partial list of Clinton's evil and incompetence:

    Failed DC bar exam

    Denied recommendations because of dishonesty and other unethical behavior when her position with the House Judiciary Committee investigating Watergate ended

    Involved in a series of financial scandals as Arkansas’s first “lady”, e.g., Whitewater, the $100,000 instant profit on commodity markets using “loaned” money then both initiated and botched the Whitewater cover up;

    It's hard to beat this Mengelian level of evil: While Bill was governor of Arkansas he and Hillary made an under-the-table profit selling HIV tainted blood from Arkansas prisons to Canada. Estimates of the AIDS deaths caused by this homicidal scam range from 4,000 to 10,000. Even for the Clintons this is so appalling - and the MSM cover up so thorough - that I will provide a link for the lazy: https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/1999/may/15/tainted-plasma-traced-to-arkansas-prison-bill-clintons-blood-trails/

    Put in charge of crafting the Clinton health insurance policy initiative then failed in a disastrous way that put off the possibilities of another Democrat bill for twenty years;

    Partnered with Bill in admitting Poland to NATO, starting a new round of unnecessary hostilities with Russia. [George Kennon describes this as one of the greatest diplomatic blunders of the 20th century.];

    Caught red-handed stealing furniture from the White House followed by an unsuccesful coverup;

    Was losing NY senate election until Bill stepped in;

    Lost a “sure thing” presidential nomination to the relatively unknown Obama;

    When Hillary Rodham Clinton became Secretary of State one of her legal obligations was to appoint an Inspector General for the State Department. She never did and for her entire term in office the State Department lacked an IG. This was a gross and utterly unprecedented violation of federal law. It strongly suggests that Clinton was planning illegal conduct in office before she even took her oath and was preparing mechanisms to enable her planned criminal acts.

    Within two weeks of becoming Secretary of State committed an epic diplomatic faux pas that caused Whitehall to publicly and officially repudiate the century long “special relation” between the UK and the USA;

    A bit later her incredibly stupid “reset button” gimmick publicly embarrassed Russian officials and widened the rift the Clintons had so assiduously created;

    Fomented, aided and abetted the so-called “Arab Spring” which has permanently destabilized much of North Africa;

    Fomented the overthrow of Qadafi in Libya which has turned that country into a failed anarchic mess and a haven for Islamo-fascist terrorists and helped spread terrorist movements like Boko Haram into much of central Africa;

    Failed utterly to protect US diplomats in Benghazi and lied through her teeth about the causes of that disaster and the role she played in it;

    Started the disastrous US intervention in Syria;

    While Secretary she violated an oath she took after being trained in how to handle classified materials, violated directly several section of the USC regarding the handling of such materials, and as a result exposed many US humint and elint intelligence sources [people may have died as a result];

    Continuously lied to the Congress, the Secretary of State Inspector General (appointed by Sec. Kerry soon after he took his oath of office), and the American public about every aspect of this situation.

    While Secretary her office and underlings negotiated deals with individuals and groups from which Clinton or her “foundation” had received emoluments, giving at least the appearance of pay-to-play and once again violating provisions of the USC.

    Clinton-inspired and directed interventions in Kosovo which led to the establishment of an anarchic region on the southern flank of Europe engaged in a massive narcotics trade and serving as a reservoir and exporter of Islamo-fascism and terrorism

    While Secretary of State Clinton oversaw an engineered putsch which overthrew the legitimate and elected government of Ukraine and replaced it with a corrupt, unstable, and illegitimate successor regime. As a result, and as might have been expected, Russia supported the secession of ethnically Russian parts of Ukraine from this state resulting in a simmering civil war.

    Perhaps not coincidentally just before this one of the Ukrainian oligarch beneficiaries of this disaster had made a donation of tens of millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation, which is basically a slush fund for Bill and Hill to pillage at will.

    Replies: @Darin, @AnotherDad

    Good list Just Sayin’.

    I’d add:
    — her getting the child rapist off via evidence suppression and cackling about it; this is in the “evil” rather than “incompetent” bucket, but seems to be the big accomplishment of her legal career, so if you’re summing up her legal career …

    — her enforcer tactics with the women of Bill’s affairs\molesting\rape; Juanita Broderick reported Hillary approached her and gave her the we appreciate you keeping quiet talk

    — her Iraq war vote; this was the most important vote of her eight years in the Senate and … she got it wrong

    But yeah, whatever you think of Trump, he seems far more competent in his career than Hillary. We don’t know how he’ll do as a politician, though so far–mixed–he stunned the Republican field and completely sucked in the first debate. (Failing for instance to do much with Hillary’s record.)

    But Hillary we know: evil *and* incompetent.

  74. @Anonymous Nephew
    @J1234

    Lennon never got over being semi-abandoned as a child by his mother Julia, who handed him to her (childless) married sister Mimi. I wonder if the fact that she stayed around but wouldn't actually share a roof with him (she taught him banjo and guitar, and bought him his first instrument) made it worse. He wasn't a nice chap cos the hurt never went away. Did write a nice song to her though.

    Wiki


    "After numerous criticisms from the Stanley family about their (still-married) daughter 'living in sin' with John Dykins, and considerable pressure from Mimi—who twice contacted Liverpool's Social Services to complain about the infant Lennon sleeping in the same bed as Julia and Dykins—she reluctantly handed the care of Lennon over to Mimi and her husband, George Smith. In July 1946, Alf Lennon (John's father) visited Mimi's house and took Lennon to Blackpool for a long holiday, but he was secretly intending to emigrate to New Zealand with him. Julia and Dykins found out and followed them to Blackpool. Alf asked Julia to go with them both to New Zealand, but she refused. After a heated argument, Alf said their five-year-old child had to choose between his mother or him. He chose Alf (twice) so Julia walked away, but in the end her son (crying) followed her.

    She took John back to her house and enrolled him in a local school, but after few weeks she handed him back to Mimi."
     

    Plenty of Freudian dynamite there.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Sean

    Basically, Julia’s mom was a whore. She also died in a car accident in 1958, and she was the subject of John’s song, “Julia” off the White Album. Lennon’s dad Alf was a much better man, based within the context of the times. He wanted to help raise him and give him a proper upbringing. Staying with Julia really messed him up a bit. And she was a whore. The other three Beatles didn’t have nearly as bad an upbringing as did John.

  75. @SFG
    @JohnnyD

    They'd pick something by a woman of color which is utterly forgettable. 'Imagine', whatever you think of its political message, is a good song.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    No, it isn’t. It’s a dated hippy dippy semi-Marxist crapolla song. It has a nice melody but aside from that, it sucks.

    From around that time period, Zeppelin’s “Stairway to Heaven” is a good song. Don McLean’s “Miss. American Pie” is a good song.

    “Imagine” sucks. Nice melody, but if one really thinks about the words, it isn’t grounded in reality.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    American Pie, I'm quite fond of.

  76. @Whiskey
    Lennonism is the default value of women, untethered by children and a massive genetic investment in man. Think about it; no competition with war heroes and soldiers, lots of dynastic hectoring, its a Hillary Clinton world.

    Heck Barbara Bush (George W's daughter) was partying with Huma Abedin and some Hollywood actress at a fundraiser for Hillary in Paris, plans to vote for Hillary.

    That's the whole point -- a dynastic global society is the only outcome of a world without borders. Its what really rich Alpha dudes and women want; and it screws over beta males. Just like Islam is a good deal for women, which is why they defend the burqua (fat covering garment that reduces inter-female hotness competition for the few Alpha dudes) and Islam (women share big shot Alphas). And men detest Islam (since they not women end up as the slaves).

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Perplexed, @Harry Baldwin

    “Islam is a good deal for women, which is why they defend the burqua (fat covering garment that reduces inter-female hotness competition for the few Alpha dudes) and Islam (women share big shot Alphas). And men detest Islam (since they not women end up as the slaves).”

    You don’t seem to know much about Islam. All Muslims are slaves, and women more so. And it’s only leftists that defend burkas.

    Clueless.

    • Replies: @biz
    @Perplexed

    The commenter was right though that in the West non-Muslim women often have a unconscious attraction to, and sympathy with, Islam more often than men.

  77. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Just watched Charles Murray talking about immigration and saying he would never ever vote Trump.”

    Charles Murray was a Peace Corps volunteer, has half-asian kids, and it sounds like is now married to a typical SJW liberal type:

    “…Murray left for the Peace Corps in Thailand in 1965, staying abroad for a formative six years…

    …kindled a romance with his Thai Buddhist language instructor (in Hawaii), Suchart Dej-Udom… their marriage began the following year, a move that Murray now considers youthful rebellion… was “born with one hand… “I’m getting married to a one-handed Thai Buddhist,” he said… “This was not the daughter-in-law that would have normally presented itself to an Iowa couple.”…

    …”There are aspects of Asian culture as it is lived that I still prefer to Western culture, 30 years after I last lived in Thailand,” says Murray… “Two of my children are half-Asian. Apart from those personal aspects, I have always thought that the Chinese and Japanese civilizations had elements that represented the apex of human accomplishment in certain domains.”…

    …Murray noted that his worldview was fundamentally shaped by his time there…

    …By the 1980s, his marriage to Suchart Dej-Udom had been unhappy for years… Murray divorced Dej-Udom after fourteen years of marriage… three years later married Catherine Bly Cox…

    …Cox was initially dubious when she saw his conservative reading choices, and she spent long hours “trying to reconcile his shocking views with what she saw…” …”

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @anonymous


    Catherine Bly Cox
     
    Three names?

    Scratch a Never-Trumper, find another victim of Krugman's disease.

  78. @Flip
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    I agree with this, and think that Yoko introducing John to heroin didn't help. Paul's mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven. Take the White Album and split it into Paul and John songs, and the Paul side is far better.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Kylie

    “Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.”

    No, Schubert’s mid and late stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.

    Paul isn’t even in the same creative cosmos.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @Polymath
    @Kylie

    Dylan, on the other hand, bears comparison with any songwriter ever -- he isn't a Mozart or Beethoven musically, and he isn't a Shakespeare lyrically, but he's awfully damn good in both areas and there are qualities of human depth and of inexhaustibility to his work which you see only in the very greatest creators (Shakespeare and Mark Twain come to mind).

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    , @Peripatetic commenter
    @Kylie

    The problem is that Schubert, Mozart and Beethoven were all Germanics, or at the very least descended from the peoples of the Carolingian empire, so they are evil, and they are dead white males.

    Paul hasn't made it into the dead white male class yet. But he will.

    , @SPMoore8
    @Kylie

    I saw this morning that this thread was turning into a Beatles fanzine so I just clicked off.

    Comparing the Beatles to Mozart and Beethoven is just a way for fans to assert how much they like them. I like them too. But .....

    I have noticed on Prog Left sites that the hosts and commenters usually have little or no knowledge of cultural media, in literature, poetry, music, film, etc. even old television. It's a little disconcerting to be reminded that many on the Right also have inexplicable voids as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vTSpfWbSGs

    Replies: @Brutusale

    , @SPMoore8
    @Kylie

    You know this is better than the Beatles, because it's 4 seconds longer than "Hey, Jude!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0z7mUV5rSc

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew

  79. At the Miami airport, snippets of Lennon lyrics are posted on the walls in random spots throughout the terminal. The letters are made out of plastic flowers.

    I’m not kidding:

    Why this is so, I don’t know.

    Speaking of tacky public art, the newly-refurbished Dolphins stadium has a mural of a female astronaut riding … some kind of robot or animal. It’s weird:

    (Her outfit looks like something a Borg drone might wear.)

    There’s also a creepy drawing of Don Shula:

  80. @AnotherDad
    @415 reasons


    I mean sharing women in the pre-HIV era sounds pretty good but the rest of the hippie BS is pretty stupid.
     
    Sharing women is actually the *worst* part of the hippie b.s. what inevitably rips apart any sort of hippieish commune thing.

    You're right it *sounds* pretty good to a single guy at 20, "lots of sex with different women!" with no thought of kids in the picture. But it simply doesn't match the way men *and* women are wired up. Just like there are gals we think are hotter, there are guys women think are more compelling--i.e. alpha. The gals will all flock around him\them. The guys on the bottom of the totem pole won't be so happy. There are good evo-bio reasons for male jealousy--kids. (And this doesn't even get into female jealousies.)

    When you get on to kids then these fractures really rip open. No man wants to work and bust his ass for other people's kids. Ok, some guys will do it as social work. (I'm still scoutmastering though my boy is long out of the troop we founded.) But no guy wants to have all his labor going to another man's kids. To devote his attention\care for a woman and her children men are going to want her to be *his* woman and those children to be *his* children.

    The reality is the only sexual program compatible with civilization is monogamy--marriage. Romantic love and its precursor jealousy are evolutionary adaptations to keep men and women together for extra provision for\development of kids. They are not "backward", they are "forward" allowing us to develop beyond lower animals. "Free love", "sexual liberation"--the feminist "women can do whatever"--are not advanced, but primitive, characteristic of lower creatures and cultures.

    As i've said before with the current regime of liberation, illegitimacy and single momery, we've left civilization and moved to some sort of African sexual regime, with the super-state in the role of the African big-man. (Many women are essentially brides of the state.) It only "works" because of the cultural "momentum" of the West and lots of saps like me taking care of their family then paying for all the "liberated" women and their fatherless kids. But it's no more sustainable long term then those hippy communes.

    Replies: @Kylie, @L Woods

    So well said. Thank you.

  81. @Alec Leamas
    @thinkingabout it


    Telling nerdy betas to share their women, knowing full well that while all those women Will crave Lennon, none of Lennon’s women will ever even glance at those betas.
     
    I think your analogy is in many ways apt, but . . . Yoko seems an acquired taste for a palette more refined than mine will ever be.

    Replies: @2Mintzin1, @The Alarmist

    Yeah, my palate needs refining too…remember the “Rock & Roll Circus” where Yoko was tied up in a bag onstage and accompanied the band by wordless howling?
    Some kind of Peak Yokoism, there.

  82. @Kylie
    @Flip

    "Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven."

    No, Schubert's mid and late stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.

    Paul isn't even in the same creative cosmos.

    Replies: @Polymath, @Peripatetic commenter, @SPMoore8, @SPMoore8

    Dylan, on the other hand, bears comparison with any songwriter ever — he isn’t a Mozart or Beethoven musically, and he isn’t a Shakespeare lyrically, but he’s awfully damn good in both areas and there are qualities of human depth and of inexhaustibility to his work which you see only in the very greatest creators (Shakespeare and Mark Twain come to mind).

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Polymath

    I think Roy Orbison ad Johnny Rivers both have a great talent for encapsulating a human situation in 3 minutes or less. Not an easy thing to do.

  83. Chapman probably did Lennon a big favor in terms of his public reputation. A still-living 75-year-old Lennon would, in 2016, be somewhere between Mel Gibson and OJ in SWPL regard.
    Lennon’s private life featured recurring infatuation with females possessing east Asian features, and invariably he would beat them up. Lennon’s brutal private side was seen as an eccentricity, not a crime–in the 1970s.
    It was not heavily publicized in his lifetime and his fans were prone to
    dismiss Lennon’s behavior as unimportant. But in the 35 years that
    would follow Lennon’s lucky escape from assassination, attitudes on Lennon’s flaw would change dramatically.
    A living Lennon would have been arrested for cracking his new gal’s jaw in the 80s and, given his ego-saturated tendency to shoot off his mouth, he likely would have come up with a Sean Connery-type witticism about how some women deserve it. In New York, California or London, his lawyers would have been answering complaints from the ladies he’s left with bruises, scratched corneas, and fractured fingers. Rather than admit that he was a brutal bastard, Lennon would have raged that society is loony for criticizing
    him, and become a critic against political correctness. He might not have been a Reaganite, but he would have fit in with New Labour and Cool Britannia idiocy.

    • Replies: @eD
    @The Man From K Street

    " Lennon’s brutal private side was seen as an eccentricity, not a crime–in the 1970s."

    This is interesting. Pretty much everything in the 70s that was regarded them as an eccentricity, or colorful, is regarded now as a crime and it can ruin your life if it gets out.

  84. @Kylie
    @Flip

    "Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven."

    No, Schubert's mid and late stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.

    Paul isn't even in the same creative cosmos.

    Replies: @Polymath, @Peripatetic commenter, @SPMoore8, @SPMoore8

    The problem is that Schubert, Mozart and Beethoven were all Germanics, or at the very least descended from the peoples of the Carolingian empire, so they are evil, and they are dead white males.

    Paul hasn’t made it into the dead white male class yet. But he will.

    • LOL: Kylie
  85. @Darin
    @JohnnyD


    It’s only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with “Imagine.”
     
    Yes, it is seriously coming. After this, names of Washington and Jefferson will be deleted from the map.

    Colin Kaepernick Is Righter Than You Know: The National Anthem Is a Celebration of Slavery
    https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-is-righter-than-you-know-the-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/

    Replies: @syonredux

    Yes, it is seriously coming. After this, names of Washington and Jefferson will be deleted from the map.

    Maybe so. Cf things like the removal of Jefferson and Jackson’s names from Jefferson-Jackson Day Democratic fundraisers:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson%E2%80%93Jackson_Day

    And then there’s the move to get rid of the statue honoring Old Hickory in New Orleans’ Jackson Square:

    http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2016/09/new_orleans_monuments_1.html

    The juxtaposition of drumbeats and chants of “No justice, no peace” filled the air on Saturday afternoon (Sept. 24) as hundreds marched toward Jackson Square in an act of protest against the four New Orleans monuments honoring Civil War era figures. For more photos from the protest, click here.

    Take ‘Em Down NOLA arrived at Jackson Square at 2:17 p.m., where a horse-mounted New Orleans Police patrol blocked access to the Andrew Jackson monument. At one point, protesters could be heard chanting, “We can’t get no satisfaction until you take down Andrew Jackson,” and some threw liquid-filled balloons at the NOPD command vehicle and spattered EMS Deputy Chief Ken Bouvier of EMS.

    http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/09/jackson_square_protest.html

  86. @Anonymous
    A Trump loss means the old America is gone for good. Here are some tactics which can be helpful in the new America and thwarting the secret police. From an old OSS field manual on sabotage:

    https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/CleanedUOSSSimpleSabotage_sm.pdf

    (12) General Devices for Lowering Morale amd Creating Confusion

    (a) Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations when questioned.
    (b) Report danger to the police.
    (c) Act stupid.
    (d) Be as irritable and, quarrelsome as possible. without getting yourself into trouble...

    Managers and Supervisors: To lower morale and production, be pleasant to inefficient workers; give them undeserved promotions. Discriminate against efficient workers; complain unjustly about their work.

    Employees: Work slowly. Think of ways to increase the number of movements needed to do your job: use a light hammer instead of a heavy one; try to make a small wrench do instead of a big one.

    Organizations and Conferences: When possible, refer all matters to committees, for "further study and consideration." Attempt to make the committees as large and bureaucratic as possible. Hold conferences when there is more critical work to be done.

    Telephone: At office, hotel and local telephone switchboards, delay putting calls through, give out wrong numbers, cut people off “accidentally,” or forget to disconnect them so that the line cannot be used again.

    Transportation: Make train travel as inconvenient as possible for enemy personnel. Issue two tickets for the same seat on a train in order to set up an “interesting” argument.

     

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Isn’t this a synopsis of how things have been ever since … oh, about the 1970’s?

  87. @countenance
    For God's Sake.

    It's a song. Not a serious political treatise.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Alec Leamas, @JerryC

    It’s a lefty polical treatise in the form of a song, that’s why it sucks. Just like Billy Joel’s “Tell Her About It” is relationship advice* in the form of a song, and also sucks.

    * It’s bad relationship advice, from someone who should never have been giving anyone else relationship advice in the first place.

  88. I think we can all see how really dedicated these people are to a free movement of peoples with their gated communities, armed guards, and giant walls around their mansions with barbed wire and broken glass on top. If only we could follow their wonderful example by showing that kind of welcome to foreigners who want to displace us and steal our country. We certainly have a large enough military budget to be just as welcoming as these Ivory Tower snobs are to their neighbors.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Dr. Doom



    I think we can all see how really dedicated these people are to a free movement of peoples with their gated communities, armed guards, and giant walls around their mansions with barbed wire and broken glass on top.
     
    Trump should steal my line:

    "Hillary doesn't want a wall, doesn't want there to be a border around America to protect the value of your citizenship. But she sure wants a border around her bank account to protect all the loot she's been paid to be a stooge of Wall Street. For what's valuable to you ... she doesn't care about people breaking the law and breaking in. But for *her* stuff, her loot, she wants armed guards to shoot on sight, death or prison for anyone breaking in.

    I say if Hillary doesn't want to have a real border around America and anyone's allowed to come in and help themselves to what we have, then there shouldn't be a border around Hillary's bank account and everyone is entitled to come in and help themselves to what she has."
  89. @Kylie
    @Flip

    "Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven."

    No, Schubert's mid and late stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.

    Paul isn't even in the same creative cosmos.

    Replies: @Polymath, @Peripatetic commenter, @SPMoore8, @SPMoore8

    I saw this morning that this thread was turning into a Beatles fanzine so I just clicked off.

    Comparing the Beatles to Mozart and Beethoven is just a way for fans to assert how much they like them. I like them too. But …..

    I have noticed on Prog Left sites that the hosts and commenters usually have little or no knowledge of cultural media, in literature, poetry, music, film, etc. even old television. It’s a little disconcerting to be reminded that many on the Right also have inexplicable voids as well.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @SPMoore8

    I'm a late Boomer, born in 1958. My artistic tastes, unlike a lot of my older Boomer friends, didn't cease to process new material in 1969, like Kevin Kline's character in The Big Chill. They constantly denigrate today's musicians as just not up to the technical chops of their 60s heroes, and they hate when I force them to listen to modern pop/rock virtuosos when they're at my place.

    Then there's the next generation:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYKLvYGqaC0

    This kid on drums could be a session player now.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  90. L Woods says:
    @AnotherDad
    @415 reasons


    I mean sharing women in the pre-HIV era sounds pretty good but the rest of the hippie BS is pretty stupid.
     
    Sharing women is actually the *worst* part of the hippie b.s. what inevitably rips apart any sort of hippieish commune thing.

    You're right it *sounds* pretty good to a single guy at 20, "lots of sex with different women!" with no thought of kids in the picture. But it simply doesn't match the way men *and* women are wired up. Just like there are gals we think are hotter, there are guys women think are more compelling--i.e. alpha. The gals will all flock around him\them. The guys on the bottom of the totem pole won't be so happy. There are good evo-bio reasons for male jealousy--kids. (And this doesn't even get into female jealousies.)

    When you get on to kids then these fractures really rip open. No man wants to work and bust his ass for other people's kids. Ok, some guys will do it as social work. (I'm still scoutmastering though my boy is long out of the troop we founded.) But no guy wants to have all his labor going to another man's kids. To devote his attention\care for a woman and her children men are going to want her to be *his* woman and those children to be *his* children.

    The reality is the only sexual program compatible with civilization is monogamy--marriage. Romantic love and its precursor jealousy are evolutionary adaptations to keep men and women together for extra provision for\development of kids. They are not "backward", they are "forward" allowing us to develop beyond lower animals. "Free love", "sexual liberation"--the feminist "women can do whatever"--are not advanced, but primitive, characteristic of lower creatures and cultures.

    As i've said before with the current regime of liberation, illegitimacy and single momery, we've left civilization and moved to some sort of African sexual regime, with the super-state in the role of the African big-man. (Many women are essentially brides of the state.) It only "works" because of the cultural "momentum" of the West and lots of saps like me taking care of their family then paying for all the "liberated" women and their fatherless kids. But it's no more sustainable long term then those hippy communes.

    Replies: @Kylie, @L Woods

    It’s notable the extent to which extreme patriarchy and extreme female liberation grow in practice to resemble each other. In either case, the Big Man takes most of the women while the rest of the men are left little recourse but to engage in winner takes all, bloodied-tooth-and-claw struggle for the brass ring (or accept your lot as an asexual serf, which prosperity-driven stupefaction seems to facilitate).

    The negative implications for civilization are obvious. But with the oncoming divorce of labor from economic productivity combined with the advent of ever greater forms of mollifying prolefeed, I fear this is the only direction civilization is likely to head.

  91. @Kylie
    @Flip

    "Paul’s mid and late Beatles stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven."

    No, Schubert's mid and late stuff is on a par with Mozart and Beethoven.

    Paul isn't even in the same creative cosmos.

    Replies: @Polymath, @Peripatetic commenter, @SPMoore8, @SPMoore8

    You know this is better than the Beatles, because it’s 4 seconds longer than “Hey, Jude!”

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    @SPMoore8

    It'll be interesting to see how the Beatles reputation stands up when all those who can remember them (like me) are dead. They've lasted pretty well so far, but will people like their stuff in a hundred years? (There's also the question of how many people will still be listening to Mozart or Schubert in a hundred years, given demographic trends.)

    Schubert's great, but so is "In My Life".

    OT

    "Why Some Wars (Like Syria’s) Get More Attention Than Others (Like Yemen’s)"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/world/why-some-wars-like-syrias-get-more-attention-than-others-like-yemens.html?_r=0

    and if this report is correct (and who can tell these days, the Indie is a globalist mouthpiece), it seems the poor old Kurds are to be shafted yet again. It's in neither Assad's nor Erdogan's interests for the Kurds to have de facto control of an independent Northern Syria, but up to now Assad's had more deadly fish to fry and the Kurds have been a bulwark against ISIS/al Quaeda/moderate cannibals.

    "The Turkish military, with armour, air-power and troops on the ground – a thousand of them special forces – are moving deeper into Syria, along with Syrian opposition fighters, setting up a “security zone” across the border. Operation Euphrates Shield has been marked for Ankara by increasing acrimony with Washington and warming of relations with Moscow. The Turkish forces have attacked Kurdish fighters who are America’s key allies in the fight against Isis, while Russia, busy securing Aleppo for ally Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, has given tacit approval for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s actions in northern Syria."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/turkey-erdogan-syria-civil-war-special-forces-secret-mission-russia-us-aleppo-a7340171.html

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  92. @SPMoore8
    @Kylie

    You know this is better than the Beatles, because it's 4 seconds longer than "Hey, Jude!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0z7mUV5rSc

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew

    It’ll be interesting to see how the Beatles reputation stands up when all those who can remember them (like me) are dead. They’ve lasted pretty well so far, but will people like their stuff in a hundred years? (There’s also the question of how many people will still be listening to Mozart or Schubert in a hundred years, given demographic trends.)

    Schubert’s great, but so is “In My Life”.

    OT

    “Why Some Wars (Like Syria’s) Get More Attention Than Others (Like Yemen’s)”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/world/why-some-wars-like-syrias-get-more-attention-than-others-like-yemens.html?_r=0

    and if this report is correct (and who can tell these days, the Indie is a globalist mouthpiece), it seems the poor old Kurds are to be shafted yet again. It’s in neither Assad’s nor Erdogan’s interests for the Kurds to have de facto control of an independent Northern Syria, but up to now Assad’s had more deadly fish to fry and the Kurds have been a bulwark against ISIS/al Quaeda/moderate cannibals.

    “The Turkish military, with armour, air-power and troops on the ground – a thousand of them special forces – are moving deeper into Syria, along with Syrian opposition fighters, setting up a “security zone” across the border. Operation Euphrates Shield has been marked for Ankara by increasing acrimony with Washington and warming of relations with Moscow. The Turkish forces have attacked Kurdish fighters who are America’s key allies in the fight against Isis, while Russia, busy securing Aleppo for ally Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, has given tacit approval for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s actions in northern Syria.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/turkey-erdogan-syria-civil-war-special-forces-secret-mission-russia-us-aleppo-a7340171.html

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Anonymous Nephew

    What usually happens with really popular popular songs is that they eventually attain the status of folk songs or children's songs; e.g., Greensleeves, the song that serves as the basis for "The Moldau" as well as the Israeli national anthem, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, a lot of Stephen Foster, Ta Ra Ra Boom De Ay, Frankie and Johnny, Hey Joe, She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, John Henry, The Yellow Rose of Texas, etc. etc.

    "In My Life" is a nice song, but it's worth keeping in mind that the middle section was created by George Martin noodling away at a piano while the Beatles were having lunch, and then speeded it up so it sounded like a harpsichord. I think it's a nice sentiment and it works for me, you can expect, in a century or so, that it will show up in inspirational poetry books for teenagers.

    As nice a song as it is, however, there are many popular songs from Broadway or the collective known as "The American Songbook" that are as good. And no one remembers who wrote those, either.

    You'd be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here. The real challenge to classical music is that it uses a timeline (or a trajectory) and a level of abstraction (if you will) that is incomprehensible for pop. Luckily, most European cultures (and even Asian cultures) promote classical music from the top down so at minimum its performance and maintenance is at the museum level, so it will endure.

    Actually, in terms of numbers, there is also a thriving classical music culture in the US, even if most people don't know it very well. The government, several foundations, and wealthy people support it (because of its high culture status, or because they like it, or both.) I'm not worried about its longevity.

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew, @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

  93. At one point, protesters could be heard chanting, “We can’t get no satisfaction until you take down Andrew Jackson,”

    LOL. Somehow, real life has become more like a Tom Wolfe novel than a Tom Wolfe novel is like a Tom Wolfe novel.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @JerryC

    Yep. I am sure that Tom Wolfe never meant The Bonfires of the Vanities to be an instruction manual.

    His latest book on language is short and good: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01922I12U/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Reg Cæsar

  94. @grmbl

    The key provision of the immigration bills was legalization of many or most of the estimated (by the Pew Research Center) 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States before border and workforce enforcement provisions could take effect. Both parties had political motives for this.

    Democrats favored it because they figured most of the newly legalized would vote for their party. Many Republicans, notably Bush, favored it because they didn't want to see Texas and Florida go the way of California — where immigrant votes seemed to have made a Republican-leaning state safe Democratic.
     
    I don't understand the bolded sentence?

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @stillCARealist

    Many Republicans used to think, “Democrats have their loyal non-white minority, we should have one too.”

  95. @Anonymous Nephew
    @SPMoore8

    It'll be interesting to see how the Beatles reputation stands up when all those who can remember them (like me) are dead. They've lasted pretty well so far, but will people like their stuff in a hundred years? (There's also the question of how many people will still be listening to Mozart or Schubert in a hundred years, given demographic trends.)

    Schubert's great, but so is "In My Life".

    OT

    "Why Some Wars (Like Syria’s) Get More Attention Than Others (Like Yemen’s)"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/world/why-some-wars-like-syrias-get-more-attention-than-others-like-yemens.html?_r=0

    and if this report is correct (and who can tell these days, the Indie is a globalist mouthpiece), it seems the poor old Kurds are to be shafted yet again. It's in neither Assad's nor Erdogan's interests for the Kurds to have de facto control of an independent Northern Syria, but up to now Assad's had more deadly fish to fry and the Kurds have been a bulwark against ISIS/al Quaeda/moderate cannibals.

    "The Turkish military, with armour, air-power and troops on the ground – a thousand of them special forces – are moving deeper into Syria, along with Syrian opposition fighters, setting up a “security zone” across the border. Operation Euphrates Shield has been marked for Ankara by increasing acrimony with Washington and warming of relations with Moscow. The Turkish forces have attacked Kurdish fighters who are America’s key allies in the fight against Isis, while Russia, busy securing Aleppo for ally Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, has given tacit approval for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s actions in northern Syria."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/turkey-erdogan-syria-civil-war-special-forces-secret-mission-russia-us-aleppo-a7340171.html

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    What usually happens with really popular popular songs is that they eventually attain the status of folk songs or children’s songs; e.g., Greensleeves, the song that serves as the basis for “The Moldau” as well as the Israeli national anthem, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, a lot of Stephen Foster, Ta Ra Ra Boom De Ay, Frankie and Johnny, Hey Joe, She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, John Henry, The Yellow Rose of Texas, etc. etc.

    “In My Life” is a nice song, but it’s worth keeping in mind that the middle section was created by George Martin noodling away at a piano while the Beatles were having lunch, and then speeded it up so it sounded like a harpsichord. I think it’s a nice sentiment and it works for me, you can expect, in a century or so, that it will show up in inspirational poetry books for teenagers.

    As nice a song as it is, however, there are many popular songs from Broadway or the collective known as “The American Songbook” that are as good. And no one remembers who wrote those, either.

    You’d be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here. The real challenge to classical music is that it uses a timeline (or a trajectory) and a level of abstraction (if you will) that is incomprehensible for pop. Luckily, most European cultures (and even Asian cultures) promote classical music from the top down so at minimum its performance and maintenance is at the museum level, so it will endure.

    Actually, in terms of numbers, there is also a thriving classical music culture in the US, even if most people don’t know it very well. The government, several foundations, and wealthy people support it (because of its high culture status, or because they like it, or both.) I’m not worried about its longevity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    @SPMoore8

    "You’d be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRDGZpoXTkA

    Replies: @Ivy

    , @Steve Sailer
    @SPMoore8

    I looked into tickets for the 17,000 seat Hollywood Bowl this summer and they were quite expensive. When I was 20, you could sit in the back for a buck.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @SPMoore8


    …there are many popular songs from Broadway or the collective known as “The American Songbook” that are as good. And no one remembers who wrote those, either.
     
    Uh, a lot of us know damn well who wrote those songs.

    You’d be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here.
     
    A musicologist named Sigmund Spaeth made a career out of making classical connections to popular songs public, as the "tune detective", in several books and a popular radio show in the '20s. Irving Berlin famously denied Alec Wilder permission to quote his songs in Wilder's classic American Popular Song because Berlin suspected Wilder was pulling a Spaeth on him.

    But the classical composers did the same. Per Eliot/Stravinsky/Picasso/Jobs, the good borrow, the great steal.

    (Anyone know if Sigmund is related to Merrie Spaeth, who, along with Tippi Walker, upstaged Peter Sellers in The World of Henry Orient?)
  96. @Anonymous Nephew
    @J1234

    Lennon never got over being semi-abandoned as a child by his mother Julia, who handed him to her (childless) married sister Mimi. I wonder if the fact that she stayed around but wouldn't actually share a roof with him (she taught him banjo and guitar, and bought him his first instrument) made it worse. He wasn't a nice chap cos the hurt never went away. Did write a nice song to her though.

    Wiki


    "After numerous criticisms from the Stanley family about their (still-married) daughter 'living in sin' with John Dykins, and considerable pressure from Mimi—who twice contacted Liverpool's Social Services to complain about the infant Lennon sleeping in the same bed as Julia and Dykins—she reluctantly handed the care of Lennon over to Mimi and her husband, George Smith. In July 1946, Alf Lennon (John's father) visited Mimi's house and took Lennon to Blackpool for a long holiday, but he was secretly intending to emigrate to New Zealand with him. Julia and Dykins found out and followed them to Blackpool. Alf asked Julia to go with them both to New Zealand, but she refused. After a heated argument, Alf said their five-year-old child had to choose between his mother or him. He chose Alf (twice) so Julia walked away, but in the end her son (crying) followed her.

    She took John back to her house and enrolled him in a local school, but after few weeks she handed him back to Mimi."
     

    Plenty of Freudian dynamite there.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Sean

    Reading between the lines, John Lennon’s biological mother was a bit of an alcoholic. She tried to interest him in sex with her (put his hand on her breast) on a visit while he was barely in his teens, according to what a friend of Lennon claimed to have heard from him. Lennon swung both ways.

  97. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/nov/01/false-dawn-john-gray
    The book was written a decade before the credit crunch that might arguably have been market capitalism’s “big one”.[…] At the heart of his analysis is a rebuttal of the right-wing assertion that free markets are a natural state of human affairs. Gray then demolishes the claim that liberalisation – opening areas of the economy to market forces – is somehow an act of democratic emancipation. Markets are indeed ancient, but they are traditionally restrained by social institutions. The kind of revolution desired by conservative ideologues requires, paradoxically, a massive application of central state power, subordinating society to the market.

    That makes the project of free-market globalisation hardly less deluded in its utopian aspirations than Bolshevik Marxism and similarly fated to a catastrophic unravelling – bigger, even, than the one we have just narrowly avoided.

    • Replies: @Yngvar
    @Sean

    It's capitalism that's humanity's natural state, not free markets. Everybody wants to accumulate stuff but nobody wants a level playing field, unless it takes away someone else's advantage.

    It's not possible to "subordinate society to the market". The market is society. The market is us.

    Replies: @Sean

  98. Mark Steyn – as commentators probably know – has been witty several times on Lennon and “Imagine”.

    Quoted in the article below:

    LENNON: Where do people get off saying the Beatles should give $200,000,000 to South America? You know, America has poured billions into places like that. It doesn’t mean a damn thing. After they’ve eaten that meal, then what? It lasts for only a day. After the $200,000,000 is gone, then what? It goes round and round in circles. You can pour money in forever. After Peru, then Harlem, then Britain. There is no one concert. We would have to dedicate the rest of our lives to one world concert tour, and I’m not ready for it. Not in this lifetime, anyway.

    http://stevesdummy.blogspot.com/2005/10/steyn-on-lennon-biomusical-from-new.html

    (Nothing to do with the Steve here.)

  99. I guess I’m a philistine, but I’d put this up against a Mozart melody.

    • Agree: Bernardista
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Flip

    I think Paul got the idea for "For No One" from the Adams Family theme. Myself, I prefer the Rockford Files:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg1Cx26-928

    Replies: @stillCARealist

  100. @Flip
    I guess I'm a philistine, but I'd put this up against a Mozart melody.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuvMcoZVYUM

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    I think Paul got the idea for “For No One” from the Adams Family theme. Myself, I prefer the Rockford Files:

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @SPMoore8

    No, the McCartney song follows a pretty standard Beatles chord progression. It's pleasing and simple, totally unlike the trash I hear on the radio now.

    I'd forgotten how fun that Rockford Files song was, particularly when the electric guitar takes over the melody. A different era.

  101. @IHTG
    Michael Barone's come a way, hasn't he?

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Michael Barone’s come a way, hasn’t he?

    Romney’s defeat was a traumatic experience for him.

  102. @anonymous
    "Just watched Charles Murray talking about immigration and saying he would never ever vote Trump."

    Charles Murray was a Peace Corps volunteer, has half-asian kids, and it sounds like is now married to a typical SJW liberal type:


    "...Murray left for the Peace Corps in Thailand in 1965, staying abroad for a formative six years...

    ...kindled a romance with his Thai Buddhist language instructor (in Hawaii), Suchart Dej-Udom... their marriage began the following year, a move that Murray now considers youthful rebellion... was "born with one hand... "I'm getting married to a one-handed Thai Buddhist," he said... "This was not the daughter-in-law that would have normally presented itself to an Iowa couple."...

    ..."There are aspects of Asian culture as it is lived that I still prefer to Western culture, 30 years after I last lived in Thailand," says Murray... "Two of my children are half-Asian. Apart from those personal aspects, I have always thought that the Chinese and Japanese civilizations had elements that represented the apex of human accomplishment in certain domains."...

    ...Murray noted that his worldview was fundamentally shaped by his time there...

    ...By the 1980s, his marriage to Suchart Dej-Udom had been unhappy for years... Murray divorced Dej-Udom after fourteen years of marriage... three years later married Catherine Bly Cox...

    ...Cox was initially dubious when she saw his conservative reading choices, and she spent long hours "trying to reconcile his shocking views with what she saw..." ..."

     

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Catherine Bly Cox

    Three names?

    Scratch a Never-Trumper, find another victim of Krugman’s disease.

  103. @SPMoore8
    @Anonymous Nephew

    What usually happens with really popular popular songs is that they eventually attain the status of folk songs or children's songs; e.g., Greensleeves, the song that serves as the basis for "The Moldau" as well as the Israeli national anthem, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, a lot of Stephen Foster, Ta Ra Ra Boom De Ay, Frankie and Johnny, Hey Joe, She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, John Henry, The Yellow Rose of Texas, etc. etc.

    "In My Life" is a nice song, but it's worth keeping in mind that the middle section was created by George Martin noodling away at a piano while the Beatles were having lunch, and then speeded it up so it sounded like a harpsichord. I think it's a nice sentiment and it works for me, you can expect, in a century or so, that it will show up in inspirational poetry books for teenagers.

    As nice a song as it is, however, there are many popular songs from Broadway or the collective known as "The American Songbook" that are as good. And no one remembers who wrote those, either.

    You'd be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here. The real challenge to classical music is that it uses a timeline (or a trajectory) and a level of abstraction (if you will) that is incomprehensible for pop. Luckily, most European cultures (and even Asian cultures) promote classical music from the top down so at minimum its performance and maintenance is at the museum level, so it will endure.

    Actually, in terms of numbers, there is also a thriving classical music culture in the US, even if most people don't know it very well. The government, several foundations, and wealthy people support it (because of its high culture status, or because they like it, or both.) I'm not worried about its longevity.

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew, @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    “You’d be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here.”

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Classical music provided inspiration to many older Hollywood movies, in an era when more people seemed familiar with the themes and leitmotifs. John Williams is a welcome link.
    Re your Clinton Cash video, perhaps a Requiem would be a good encore.

  104. @Polymath
    @Kylie

    Dylan, on the other hand, bears comparison with any songwriter ever -- he isn't a Mozart or Beethoven musically, and he isn't a Shakespeare lyrically, but he's awfully damn good in both areas and there are qualities of human depth and of inexhaustibility to his work which you see only in the very greatest creators (Shakespeare and Mark Twain come to mind).

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    I think Roy Orbison ad Johnny Rivers both have a great talent for encapsulating a human situation in 3 minutes or less. Not an easy thing to do.

  105. I want Steve to be the dj for my post-Trump-defeat party/wake.

    If he wins, the chorus of wailing from all parts of my world will be music enough.

  106. Anonymous [AKA "SamP"] says:
    @Glossy
    Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it's often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn't get passed on much. It's still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Realist, @Father O'Hara, @James Kabala, @Darin, @Anonymous, @Assistant Village Idiot

    Imagine was written at the most overtly political point in Lennon’s life, a period he later admitted was driven by wealth and war-guilt and a need to prove he was one with the people “against my instincts”.

    It’s truly a shame he wasn’t around later to ruthlessly mock the use of his treacly song as an excuse for Islamic barbarism.

  107. @BenKenobi
    If you want a Maynard/Tool song for the Alt-Right, may I humbly suggest "Aenima" followed by "46 and 2".

    Replies: @Brutusale, @larry lurker

    “46 and 2″

    I’m gonna be tapping in 7/8 for the rest of the day now.

  108. @Glossy
    Man is a product of evolution. When pacifism arises among us, it's often killed off by non-pacifists. So it doesn't get passed on much. It's still very much a man-shoot-man world.

    Having read a lot about the Beatles, I know that Lennon was by far the biggest jerk among them. He did not behave like someone who believed in most of the things he wrote about in that song.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Realist, @Father O'Hara, @James Kabala, @Darin, @Anonymous, @Assistant Village Idiot

    They sang it at the concert for Bangladesh, which is rather ironic.

  109. @Anonymous Nephew
    @SPMoore8

    "You’d be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRDGZpoXTkA

    Replies: @Ivy

    Classical music provided inspiration to many older Hollywood movies, in an era when more people seemed familiar with the themes and leitmotifs. John Williams is a welcome link.
    Re your Clinton Cash video, perhaps a Requiem would be a good encore.

  110. @SPMoore8
    @Anonymous Nephew

    What usually happens with really popular popular songs is that they eventually attain the status of folk songs or children's songs; e.g., Greensleeves, the song that serves as the basis for "The Moldau" as well as the Israeli national anthem, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, a lot of Stephen Foster, Ta Ra Ra Boom De Ay, Frankie and Johnny, Hey Joe, She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, John Henry, The Yellow Rose of Texas, etc. etc.

    "In My Life" is a nice song, but it's worth keeping in mind that the middle section was created by George Martin noodling away at a piano while the Beatles were having lunch, and then speeded it up so it sounded like a harpsichord. I think it's a nice sentiment and it works for me, you can expect, in a century or so, that it will show up in inspirational poetry books for teenagers.

    As nice a song as it is, however, there are many popular songs from Broadway or the collective known as "The American Songbook" that are as good. And no one remembers who wrote those, either.

    You'd be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here. The real challenge to classical music is that it uses a timeline (or a trajectory) and a level of abstraction (if you will) that is incomprehensible for pop. Luckily, most European cultures (and even Asian cultures) promote classical music from the top down so at minimum its performance and maintenance is at the museum level, so it will endure.

    Actually, in terms of numbers, there is also a thriving classical music culture in the US, even if most people don't know it very well. The government, several foundations, and wealthy people support it (because of its high culture status, or because they like it, or both.) I'm not worried about its longevity.

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew, @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    I looked into tickets for the 17,000 seat Hollywood Bowl this summer and they were quite expensive. When I was 20, you could sit in the back for a buck.

  111. @SPMoore8
    @Kylie

    I saw this morning that this thread was turning into a Beatles fanzine so I just clicked off.

    Comparing the Beatles to Mozart and Beethoven is just a way for fans to assert how much they like them. I like them too. But .....

    I have noticed on Prog Left sites that the hosts and commenters usually have little or no knowledge of cultural media, in literature, poetry, music, film, etc. even old television. It's a little disconcerting to be reminded that many on the Right also have inexplicable voids as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vTSpfWbSGs

    Replies: @Brutusale

    I’m a late Boomer, born in 1958. My artistic tastes, unlike a lot of my older Boomer friends, didn’t cease to process new material in 1969, like Kevin Kline’s character in The Big Chill. They constantly denigrate today’s musicians as just not up to the technical chops of their 60s heroes, and they hate when I force them to listen to modern pop/rock virtuosos when they’re at my place.

    Then there’s the next generation:

    This kid on drums could be a session player now.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Brutusale

    Of course, the one "trump" card that the earlier boomers will play, is that many of today's musical virtuosos are not in the majority of musicians. Today's most dominant form of commercially successful music, is rap, gangsta, and hip hop. Generally speaking, rap is spoken word and makes use of few instruments other than keyboards and "sampling". Up thru the '70's and into the '80's, perhaps early '90's, before rap gained the ascendency as most dominant musical form on the radio, charts, internet, pop culture, etc. you could definitely make the case that to make it in rock and other forms of musical genres one had to be a gifted and talented musician. Today, not so much.

    It is of course reassuring to hear of examples that you state, but remember: These kinds of gifted and talented musicians are by no means as commonplace as they were some decades ago and certainly aren't going to be for the foreseeable future. For now, the future remains rap, gangsta, hip hop. Until that stranglehold on commercial music begins to fade, talented musicians will remain in the minority.

    Replies: @Perplexed

  112. @Bert
    I remember Michael Barone. Much like Mort Kondracke, he was always a hand-wringer about immigration. During the Bush years he would parrot the Rove party line and cry about how his Italian grandfather was called a certain six letter word. Now I suppose he's trying to adapt in a vain attempt to stay relevant in a world that doesn't need him.

    Don't believe it.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    I disagree. I met MB at some DC think tank do wah in the 00s and he said he was basically a pollster.

  113. @JerryC

    At one point, protesters could be heard chanting, “We can’t get no satisfaction until you take down Andrew Jackson,”
     
    LOL. Somehow, real life has become more like a Tom Wolfe novel than a Tom Wolfe novel is like a Tom Wolfe novel.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Yep. I am sure that Tom Wolfe never meant The Bonfires of the Vanities to be an instruction manual.

    His latest book on language is short and good: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01922I12U/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Jim Don Bob

    Now that you have mentioned Wolfe's latest book, know that it is being bludgeoned in certain
    quarters, despite some positive reviews.

    One of these reviews, recommended by Stephen Pinker (who has his own fish to fry in this area) accuses Wolfe of "racism" and "anti-Semitism" for his characterization of Darwin as a spoiled brat who had little insight, Noam Chomsky as a flibbertigibet with inborn political leanings, and a native Brazilian tribe as being the source of a paradigm destroying language, reads like it was written by someone who lights a candle in front of his icons of Darwin and Chomsky every Sunday at noon, and to a certain extent engages in almost comical reverence and defense of his idols, but it does in fact appear that Wolfe didn't pursue his research as thoroughly as he should have. On the other hand the review also includes an irritating and totally artificial dichotomy of the True Faith of Darwin and Chomsky versus (get ready) DONALD TRUMP and anti-intellectualism in general. I'll be glad when that meme dies off.

    http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/tom-wolfes-reflections-language/

    and another:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/08/the-kingdom-of-speech-by-tom-wolfe-review

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jim Don Bob


    Yep. I am sure that Tom Wolfe never meant The Bonfires of the Vanities to be an instruction manual
     
    Nor did Prof D P Moynihan mean the same for his eponymous Report.

    But it sure looks like it was used that way!
  114. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @2Mintzin1

    Well, you're in the minority. John could barely sing on key (and George Harrison never fully could which is why he benefitted from Phil Spector's "wall of sound" studio technique that helps hide a singer's flaws). Nobody of any creative musical critical opinion has ever rated John's singing voice ahead of McCartney, who was bar far the best of the Beatles at singing on key, with actual pitch, range, etc. Where John would screetch higher notes, McCartney could easily sing much higher than his normal range (on key, and without much effort and with no screetching). Example: 1965's "I'm Down". John would've butchered that song cause he didn't have the range to sing the higher notes that McCartney could.

    George Martin never said John was a better singer. If you want to compare singers in general, John comes nowhere close to Frank Sinatra, one of the 20th century's greatest pure singers in pop music, ever.

    Replies: @2Mintzin1

    Ah-ha! Martin did say that, in an interview available on you tube in which he recounts how he evaluated how to record the Beatles when he first met them …he also dismissed Harrison’s voice as the lesser voice in the group, pretty much as anyone would.

    McCartney had that choir-boy voice thing going on, a lot more sweet-sounding than Lennon, and very effective in e.g. “Let It Be.”

    Frank Sinatra? Not sure how in hell he was worked into this discussion, but I was always a Tony Bennett guy.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @2Mintzin1

    Tony Bennett, the B-team of balladeers. In the 20th century, as far as pop singers go, there's Sinatra (in a class by himself and that's at the top)….and then there's everyone else. Sinatra set the tone for everyone else in singing love songs. Bennett has only really gotten the major attention post Sinatra's death, in '98. Before then, he was always second fiddle to Frank.

    My point was that as far as pure singing (on key, pitch, vocals, etc) is that John Lennon wasn't anywhere near approaching Frank Sinatra. In some ways his mythology is more style than anything else. He was the leader of one of the greatest rock bands in history, but his individual talents pale in comparison to many of his contemporaries as well as pop singers who actually had real singing/vocal talent.

    Sweet sounding = more total albums sold over his career. In fact, if you look at each of their individual songs released as singles starting in '65, up thru '70, when the Beatles broke up, you'll find that Paul's singles far outsold John's in bunches. Choir = better trained vocals, which of course Paul had, as he was the only Beatle that sung (briefly) in school choir and so was the only one of the four to have had some vocal training. Which isn't a bad thing.

  115. @Jim Don Bob
    @JerryC

    Yep. I am sure that Tom Wolfe never meant The Bonfires of the Vanities to be an instruction manual.

    His latest book on language is short and good: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01922I12U/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Reg Cæsar

    Now that you have mentioned Wolfe’s latest book, know that it is being bludgeoned in certain
    quarters, despite some positive reviews.

    One of these reviews, recommended by Stephen Pinker (who has his own fish to fry in this area) accuses Wolfe of “racism” and “anti-Semitism” for his characterization of Darwin as a spoiled brat who had little insight, Noam Chomsky as a flibbertigibet with inborn political leanings, and a native Brazilian tribe as being the source of a paradigm destroying language, reads like it was written by someone who lights a candle in front of his icons of Darwin and Chomsky every Sunday at noon, and to a certain extent engages in almost comical reverence and defense of his idols, but it does in fact appear that Wolfe didn’t pursue his research as thoroughly as he should have. On the other hand the review also includes an irritating and totally artificial dichotomy of the True Faith of Darwin and Chomsky versus (get ready) DONALD TRUMP and anti-intellectualism in general. I’ll be glad when that meme dies off.

    http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/tom-wolfes-reflections-language/

    and another:

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/08/the-kingdom-of-speech-by-tom-wolfe-review

  116. @Sean

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/nov/01/false-dawn-john-gray
    The book was written a decade before the credit crunch that might arguably have been market capitalism's "big one".[...] At the heart of his analysis is a rebuttal of the right-wing assertion that free markets are a natural state of human affairs. Gray then demolishes the claim that liberalisation – opening areas of the economy to market forces – is somehow an act of democratic emancipation. Markets are indeed ancient, but they are traditionally restrained by social institutions. The kind of revolution desired by conservative ideologues requires, paradoxically, a massive application of central state power, subordinating society to the market.

    That makes the project of free-market globalisation hardly less deluded in its utopian aspirations than Bolshevik Marxism and similarly fated to a catastrophic unravelling – bigger, even, than the one we have just narrowly avoided.
     

    Replies: @Yngvar

    It’s capitalism that’s humanity’s natural state, not free markets. Everybody wants to accumulate stuff but nobody wants a level playing field, unless it takes away someone else’s advantage.

    It’s not possible to “subordinate society to the market”. The market is society. The market is us.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Yngvar

    The nation state can do anything to the market, corporations or people, including forcing corporations to pay taxes, or sending people off to die in a war, whether they want to or not.

    Most societies are actually nation states, or want to become one, because though requiring sacrifices they provide protection for the majority. That has been forgotten by elites, but they are being corrected and reminded of their responsibilities.

  117. @415 reasons
    It's about to win another four years here. Just watched Charles Murray talking about immigration and saying he would never ever vote Trump. In a choice between evil and incompetent Murray is indifferent, and he perceives what is at stake! The very existence of America as we know it, or knew it anyways.

    There's no way the lumpen proletariat make their voice heard here, and once this election is over its Katie bar the door.

    No offense Steve but the entire baby boomer generation can burn in hell for all I care.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Blobby5, @Jus' Sayin'..., @Frau Katze

    Yes, I watched that too. There is zero chance of a restriction in low skilled migrants if Clinton wins. WTF is he thinking?

    • Replies: @415 reasons
    @Frau Katze

    And I mean to me it's not even the worst of it. Anyone who has been living in urban areas in the past 50 years is used to living in a low trust place, and anyone who has done it in the last 20 is also used to it being a crowded polyglot nightmare on the streets. I mean nannies and construction workers and meat packers have been immigrants for over 20 years as they pointed out in the panel. It's bad for people who might do those jobs to be on welfare instead, and it degrades the quality of life in some way but it's still not so horrible.

    But importing a million Muslims who want to go on murderous rages? I mean it really is all downside in pursuit of a truly stupid utopian conception. I assume that in 20 years it won't even be worth it to take the family to a parade because the likelihood of a bombing or stabbing will be so high and the parade will honor criminals and trannies not veterans and police.

    The fact that Hillary I'm sure has no actual real ideological belief in any of this bullshit but does it for the sake of it all being part and parcel of the Democrats strategy to rig every future election makes it all the more infuriating. In order to guarantee that they win Presidential elections they will import a hundred million third worlders and a million terrorists. What's the fucking point!? To have a generous safety net and universal healthcare that will collapse under the weight of 100 million imkigrants in a few decades? If you win every Presidential election but to do it you debase the quality of life in every city and town did you really win?

  118. @The Alarmist
    @Glossy

    McCartney was the tunesmith, Lennon was the wordsmith. Together they were golden, or at least a good backup band for one another. Separately, McCartney has lived on a lot of nostalgia coupled with a few memorable but sappy tunes (look at my love and its 'Wo wo wo wo' refrain ... Lennon could have made that a hit), and Lennon had the potential to crank out some really good stuff after his hiatus; Listen again to his stuff on Double Fantasy and you can only wonder what was ahead of him but for the assassination. To say Lennon wouldn't make the top 200 is a somewhat uninformed opinion.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    McCartney was the tunesmith, Lennon was the wordsmith

    Call me contrarian, but I say the opposite is true.

    McCartney wrote scads of good, solid, catchy tunes– “Yesterday” being rather a ways down the list– but were any as haunting as “In My Life”, “There’s a Place” (wretched lyrics in the bridge!), or “Not a Second Time”?

    Did Lennon’s best lyrics even reach McCartney’s throwaway gems like “Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da”, “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer”, or “When I’m Sixty Four”? (The last is the closest either came to writing in the classic ABAC form, as far as I know. But I understand Sir Paul owns the rights to a number of college fight songs, a genre where it was the rule.)

    The most striking thing about the two is that they were so good together, but so mediocre apart. So it’s not all HBD; environment counts a lot in this field.

    Incidentally, the only “golden age” American songwriting team that used the same write-apart-publish-together system was Hugh Martin and Ralph Blane. Blane wrote “Buckle Down, Winsocki” (speaking of fight songs) and Martin, or so Martin claimed years after Blane’s death, everything else. But Blane got half the proceeds from “The Trolley Song” and “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas”. Which Judy Garland refused to sing until Martin changed the line “It may be your last…”. How Lennonesque!

  119. Like Emma Lazarus’ poem, Lennon’s song “Imagine” should be interpreted literally and strictly implemented in all of our policies.

  120. @Jim Don Bob
    @JerryC

    Yep. I am sure that Tom Wolfe never meant The Bonfires of the Vanities to be an instruction manual.

    His latest book on language is short and good: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01922I12U/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Reg Cæsar

    Yep. I am sure that Tom Wolfe never meant The Bonfires of the Vanities to be an instruction manual

    Nor did Prof D P Moynihan mean the same for his eponymous Report.

    But it sure looks like it was used that way!

  121. @AndrewR
    @415 reasons

    Murray is pre boomer

    Replies: @415 reasons, @dfordoom

    Murray is pre boomer

    And it’s worth remembering that Lennon was not a Baby Boomer either.

    For those that want a generation to hate, hate the pre-boomer generation. They’re the ones that began the destruction of our civilisation.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @dfordoom

    That mantle could go to any number of age cohorts. The forced integration of the two decades following the war was not implemented by Lennon's generation.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  122. @SPMoore8
    @Anonymous Nephew

    What usually happens with really popular popular songs is that they eventually attain the status of folk songs or children's songs; e.g., Greensleeves, the song that serves as the basis for "The Moldau" as well as the Israeli national anthem, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, a lot of Stephen Foster, Ta Ra Ra Boom De Ay, Frankie and Johnny, Hey Joe, She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, John Henry, The Yellow Rose of Texas, etc. etc.

    "In My Life" is a nice song, but it's worth keeping in mind that the middle section was created by George Martin noodling away at a piano while the Beatles were having lunch, and then speeded it up so it sounded like a harpsichord. I think it's a nice sentiment and it works for me, you can expect, in a century or so, that it will show up in inspirational poetry books for teenagers.

    As nice a song as it is, however, there are many popular songs from Broadway or the collective known as "The American Songbook" that are as good. And no one remembers who wrote those, either.

    You'd be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here. The real challenge to classical music is that it uses a timeline (or a trajectory) and a level of abstraction (if you will) that is incomprehensible for pop. Luckily, most European cultures (and even Asian cultures) promote classical music from the top down so at minimum its performance and maintenance is at the museum level, so it will endure.

    Actually, in terms of numbers, there is also a thriving classical music culture in the US, even if most people don't know it very well. The government, several foundations, and wealthy people support it (because of its high culture status, or because they like it, or both.) I'm not worried about its longevity.

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew, @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    …there are many popular songs from Broadway or the collective known as “The American Songbook” that are as good. And no one remembers who wrote those, either.

    Uh, a lot of us know damn well who wrote those songs.

    You’d be surprised how many tunes by the great classical composers have slipped into common use, too many to itemize here.

    A musicologist named Sigmund Spaeth made a career out of making classical connections to popular songs public, as the “tune detective”, in several books and a popular radio show in the ’20s. Irving Berlin famously denied Alec Wilder permission to quote his songs in Wilder’s classic American Popular Song because Berlin suspected Wilder was pulling a Spaeth on him.

    But the classical composers did the same. Per Eliot/Stravinsky/Picasso/Jobs, the good borrow, the great steal.

    (Anyone know if Sigmund is related to Merrie Spaeth, who, along with Tippi Walker, upstaged Peter Sellers in The World of Henry Orient?)

  123. @The Man From K Street
    Chapman probably did Lennon a big favor in terms of his public reputation. A still-living 75-year-old Lennon would, in 2016, be somewhere between Mel Gibson and OJ in SWPL regard.
    Lennon's private life featured recurring infatuation with females possessing east Asian features, and invariably he would beat them up. Lennon's brutal private side was seen as an eccentricity, not a crime--in the 1970s.
    It was not heavily publicized in his lifetime and his fans were prone to
    dismiss Lennon's behavior as unimportant. But in the 35 years that
    would follow Lennon's lucky escape from assassination, attitudes on Lennon's flaw would change dramatically.
    A living Lennon would have been arrested for cracking his new gal's jaw in the 80s and, given his ego-saturated tendency to shoot off his mouth, he likely would have come up with a Sean Connery-type witticism about how some women deserve it. In New York, California or London, his lawyers would have been answering complaints from the ladies he's left with bruises, scratched corneas, and fractured fingers. Rather than admit that he was a brutal bastard, Lennon would have raged that society is loony for criticizing
    him, and become a critic against political correctness. He might not have been a Reaganite, but he would have fit in with New Labour and Cool Britannia idiocy.

    Replies: @eD

    ” Lennon’s brutal private side was seen as an eccentricity, not a crime–in the 1970s.”

    This is interesting. Pretty much everything in the 70s that was regarded them as an eccentricity, or colorful, is regarded now as a crime and it can ruin your life if it gets out.

  124. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @SFG

    No, it isn't. It's a dated hippy dippy semi-Marxist crapolla song. It has a nice melody but aside from that, it sucks.

    From around that time period, Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" is a good song. Don McLean's "Miss. American Pie" is a good song.

    "Imagine" sucks. Nice melody, but if one really thinks about the words, it isn't grounded in reality.

    Replies: @SFG

    American Pie, I’m quite fond of.

  125. @Blobby5
    @415 reasons

    I too was saddened to hear he wouldn't vote Trump ( via Derb ) what is wrong with these people?

    Replies: @rod1963

    Charles Murray is employed by AEI, as such he has to ape the party line if he wants their money. Their positions on trade, immigration and secure borders runs counter to what Trump stands for, ergo Murray mouths the party line.

    Or maybe he’s just another closet elitist who just despises lower class whites.

    Who knows.

  126. @Whiskey
    Lennonism is the default value of women, untethered by children and a massive genetic investment in man. Think about it; no competition with war heroes and soldiers, lots of dynastic hectoring, its a Hillary Clinton world.

    Heck Barbara Bush (George W's daughter) was partying with Huma Abedin and some Hollywood actress at a fundraiser for Hillary in Paris, plans to vote for Hillary.

    That's the whole point -- a dynastic global society is the only outcome of a world without borders. Its what really rich Alpha dudes and women want; and it screws over beta males. Just like Islam is a good deal for women, which is why they defend the burqua (fat covering garment that reduces inter-female hotness competition for the few Alpha dudes) and Islam (women share big shot Alphas). And men detest Islam (since they not women end up as the slaves).

    Replies: @ussr andy, @Perplexed, @Harry Baldwin

    I don’t find it noteworthy that George W’s daughter plans to vote for Hillary since George W himself as well as his father probably will vote for her too. Trump cannot be forgiven for torpedoing the Bush dynasty.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Harry Baldwin


    I don’t find it noteworthy that George W’s daughter plans to vote for Hillary since George W himself as well as his father probably will vote for her too. Trump cannot be forgiven for torpedoing the Bush dynasty.
     
    Fair enough.

    However, i think Whiskey has his usual--confused--point.

    Of the twins, i was definitely more attracted to the--smarter--Barbara. (Her look too--my undergrad girlfriend had that body type--but mostly that she's smarter.) But i could have told you immediately that she was the one more likely to:
    -- do some sort of typical establishment useless world "saving" (one of the makework jobs we have for smart women)
    -- become a Democrat
    -- stay single longer
    -- end up childless.
    While Jenna--not my type--was much more likely to
    -- have a more traditional female job
    -- stay Republican
    -- get married earlier
    -- have 3 or more kids.

    Now as it turns out, i'm spot on with Barbara, but Jenna--with the Bush name--has been given some establishment soft makework journalism employment, and isn't much of a Republican either. (And just checked only two kids so far.)

    But the reality remains--though Whiskey is over the top with it all--that we're losing our smart women. And the smarter, the worse it is.
    -- we fill their heads with PC b.s. in school and the smarter ones--and girls *conform*--lap it up even more
    -- we never give them an appreciation for our race, history, culture; the greatness of the West gets ignored or pissed on
    -- we never explain, or emphasize enough the basic truths of how society functions, what holds it together and how it improves--and it is decidedly not by "activists"
    -- we offer all this managerial liberalism and pretend it "helps" and "does good"
    -- we push female careerism and claim it's the path for personal fulfillment and validation
    -- we denigrate child bearing
    -- we push a two-and-done standard as normative and "environmentally responsible"
    and of course most of all:
    -- don't emphasize that genes really, really matter and their most important contribution is passing their own smart genes on.


    It is a *disaster*. We're eating our seed corn--except not even eating it actually, throwing it on rocky ground and stomping on it is more like it. We could--if we're lucky with Trump--turn around the immigration debacle.

    But without an HBD cultural victory, where smart young women return to believing that they are part of great lineage, that they aren't going to save the world with some b.s. social work (which does essentially nothing), that the most important thing they can do is raise lots of smart, high quality, civilized children ... and that doing that along with millions of their peers is what saves, not the world but our civilization ... without all that, the West is toast.

    Replies: @The Practical Conservative

  127. @The Alarmist
    @Anonymous

    Yeah, I have a recording of that proto version of Get Back ... You got some of the lines wrong, but you captured the general sentiment.

    "All the folks around
    don't dig no Pakistanis
    Tokin all the peoples' grass.

    Get Back (etc)"

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    The actual lyrics contain a transphobic slur:

    Sweet Loretta Martin thought she was a woman
    But she was another man
    All the girls around her say she’s got it coming
    But she gets it while she can

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Harry Baldwin

    The original lyrics of Get Back from the unpublished Get Back/Let it Be sessions were totally anti-immigrant, and there were other gems like The Commonwealth Song ("I'd join the Common market, but it's much to common for me."). Whether they were jesting or really anti-immigrant, those warm-up songs could never be allowed to see the light of day, which is why they are not in the Anthology collection, while a lot of garbage is, because it was seriously in-hip to be racist in London circa 1970.

    But it was still OK to be Trans-phobic and even Homo-phobic, which is why Get Back ended up the way it did.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  128. @415 reasons
    @AndrewR

    He's 3 years younger than John Lennon was.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    He’s 3 years younger than John Lennon was.

    You’ve got to draw these somewhat arbitrary generational lines somewhere.

    One of my mom’s younger sisters also a very late Silent–born a year earlier than Murray. There’s no doubt that such folks who grew up in the pleasant 1950s and have *no* memory of the depression and the war are very very different sorts of folks than people like my parents for whom those experiences were absolutely formative, and more similar to the experiences of the early boomers.

    Yet … the boomers are “a thing”. The boom, boomed when the GIs got home from the war. My mom’s youngest sister (baby of family) was born in ’46–a lead boomer along with Bill Clinton, W, Mitt Romney, Trump, Hillary–and she, only a few years younger than her big sis, is in a different pond with different experiences and perspectives more akin to say my oldest cousin who flew helicopters in Vietnam (not all of which landed gently–4 purple hearts, bronze star, DFC). (Of course even the lead boomer gals don’t actually have that experience, so Hillary compensates by bombing other countries.)

    In short … you gotta draw a line somewhere.

    ~~~
    BTW, the real generational question is why we’re still stuck with these annoying, now geriatric lead boomers–Trump and Hillary–as our Presidential candidates? As much as i admire “the Donald” for picking up the immigration “$100 bill on the sidewalk” and running with it, giving us the first nationalist campaign and actual “choice not an echo” in a long while … he’s clearly an old guy and not as sharp as he should be. And Hillary, holy cow what a shameless exercise in vanity.

    I’m not as sharp as i was at 20–seeing my son perform mentally reminds me of it–but i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates. Why can’t we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime–say a 58 year old, ’58er like Steve?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @AnotherDad

    "...i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates."

    Please do tell us what you really think. After all, the same argument can be used on Trump's behalf. More knowledgeable, wiser, more experience in life, etc. Something else that needs to be remembered. TV is a medium of images and not always simply words. Trump is a master at words. He is sharp enough for TV, certainly more so than Hillary.

    "Why can’t we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime–say a 58 year old, ’58er like Steve?"

    I'm sure Steve appreciates you calling him out on his age.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad

    , @Desiderius
    @AnotherDad


    Why can’t we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime–say a 58 year old, ’58er like Steve?
     
    Because that we isn't big enough.

    That is no accident.
  129. @2Mintzin1
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Ah-ha! Martin did say that, in an interview available on you tube in which he recounts how he evaluated how to record the Beatles when he first met them ...he also dismissed Harrison's voice as the lesser voice in the group, pretty much as anyone would.

    McCartney had that choir-boy voice thing going on, a lot more sweet-sounding than Lennon, and very effective in e.g. "Let It Be."

    Frank Sinatra? Not sure how in hell he was worked into this discussion, but I was always a Tony Bennett guy.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Tony Bennett, the B-team of balladeers. In the 20th century, as far as pop singers go, there’s Sinatra (in a class by himself and that’s at the top)….and then there’s everyone else. Sinatra set the tone for everyone else in singing love songs. Bennett has only really gotten the major attention post Sinatra’s death, in ’98. Before then, he was always second fiddle to Frank.

    My point was that as far as pure singing (on key, pitch, vocals, etc) is that John Lennon wasn’t anywhere near approaching Frank Sinatra. In some ways his mythology is more style than anything else. He was the leader of one of the greatest rock bands in history, but his individual talents pale in comparison to many of his contemporaries as well as pop singers who actually had real singing/vocal talent.

    Sweet sounding = more total albums sold over his career. In fact, if you look at each of their individual songs released as singles starting in ’65, up thru ’70, when the Beatles broke up, you’ll find that Paul’s singles far outsold John’s in bunches. Choir = better trained vocals, which of course Paul had, as he was the only Beatle that sung (briefly) in school choir and so was the only one of the four to have had some vocal training. Which isn’t a bad thing.

  130. @Harry Baldwin
    @The Alarmist

    The actual lyrics contain a transphobic slur:

    Sweet Loretta Martin thought she was a woman
    But she was another man
    All the girls around her say she's got it coming
    But she gets it while she can

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    The original lyrics of Get Back from the unpublished Get Back/Let it Be sessions were totally anti-immigrant, and there were other gems like The Commonwealth Song (“I’d join the Common market, but it’s much to common for me.”). Whether they were jesting or really anti-immigrant, those warm-up songs could never be allowed to see the light of day, which is why they are not in the Anthology collection, while a lot of garbage is, because it was seriously in-hip to be racist in London circa 1970.

    But it was still OK to be Trans-phobic and even Homo-phobic, which is why Get Back ended up the way it did.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @The Alarmist

    What is transphobia today was just leg-pulling humor back then. The same could arguably be said of Lou Reed's 'Walk on the Wild Side' written 3 years later, though it usually gets read as a kind of manifesto.

    Holly came from Miami F.L.A.
    Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
    Plucked her eyebrows on the way
    Shaved her legs and then he was a she
    She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,
    Said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side

    But today, political correctness allows no middle ground—of teasing, gentle humor—to exist between the extremes of humorless, pious, approval and vengeful, hysterical condemnation.

  131. @AnotherDad
    @415 reasons


    He’s 3 years younger than John Lennon was.
     
    You've got to draw these somewhat arbitrary generational lines somewhere.

    One of my mom's younger sisters also a very late Silent--born a year earlier than Murray. There's no doubt that such folks who grew up in the pleasant 1950s and have *no* memory of the depression and the war are very very different sorts of folks than people like my parents for whom those experiences were absolutely formative, and more similar to the experiences of the early boomers.

    Yet ... the boomers are "a thing". The boom, boomed when the GIs got home from the war. My mom's youngest sister (baby of family) was born in '46--a lead boomer along with Bill Clinton, W, Mitt Romney, Trump, Hillary--and she, only a few years younger than her big sis, is in a different pond with different experiences and perspectives more akin to say my oldest cousin who flew helicopters in Vietnam (not all of which landed gently--4 purple hearts, bronze star, DFC). (Of course even the lead boomer gals don't actually have that experience, so Hillary compensates by bombing other countries.)

    In short ... you gotta draw a line somewhere.

    ~~~
    BTW, the real generational question is why we're still stuck with these annoying, now geriatric lead boomers--Trump and Hillary--as our Presidential candidates? As much as i admire "the Donald" for picking up the immigration "$100 bill on the sidewalk" and running with it, giving us the first nationalist campaign and actual "choice not an echo" in a long while ... he's clearly an old guy and not as sharp as he should be. And Hillary, holy cow what a shameless exercise in vanity.

    I'm not as sharp as i was at 20--seeing my son perform mentally reminds me of it--but i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates. Why can't we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime--say a 58 year old, '58er like Steve?

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Desiderius

    “…i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates.”

    Please do tell us what you really think. After all, the same argument can be used on Trump’s behalf. More knowledgeable, wiser, more experience in life, etc. Something else that needs to be remembered. TV is a medium of images and not always simply words. Trump is a master at words. He is sharp enough for TV, certainly more so than Hillary.

    “Why can’t we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime–say a 58 year old, ’58er like Steve?”

    I’m sure Steve appreciates you calling him out on his age.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    How dare he estimate my age?!? I never wax nostalgic about seeing Sandy Koufax pitch or the 1965 USC-UCLA game or watching OJ rush for 238 yards vs. Oregon State.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Reg Cæsar

    , @AnotherDad
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Please do tell us what you really think. After all, the same argument can be used on Trump’s behalf. More knowledgeable, wiser, more experience in life, etc. ... He is sharp enough for TV, certainly more so than Hillary.
     
    First off, let's be honest Trump lost the 1st debate. If the actual loss v. Hillary wasn't catastrophic, his loss versus the *opportunity* to highlight his positions and especially to highlight Hillary's negatives--serial failures, corruption, owned by Goldman--and define her as the corrupt screwup candidate was catastrophic. How much of that was because at 70 he can't really hold all the requisite points, shots and quips in his head vs. never being very smart\verbally agile in terms of being able to store and deliver debating points, don't know.

    On this age question, basically we're talking about two curves--declining mental acuity vs. accumulating wisdom. At 40 most people--who are ever going to grow up--are no longer youthfully stupid, but they still can benefit a lot from accumulating experience, especially experience at the more senior positions they are now in. By their mid to late 50s they've had that experience and the "wisdom" curve is flattening. In contrast the "mental acuity" curve is steepening its decline. So at some point you get a peak--not as wise as you'll ever be, not as sharp as you once were, but the best combination.

    Most presidents took office in their 50s and even the successful two termers were out by their early to mid 60s.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age
    Most companies promote and retire their CEOs on this same sort of schedule.

    Obviously there is personal variance and and modern sanitation and health care help--if you stay fit. (Mitt Romney looked and sounded on top of it last cycle at 65, his problem was the establishment globo nonsense Mitt believes.) But we haven't really done much with basic aging. Trump seems to have a lot of energy and be fundamentally fit, but doesn't seem all that sharp. Hillary--i'm about 90% sure--is not physically\mentally fit for the job period, beyond being incompetent and evil.

    Age matters.
  132. @Alec Leamas
    @thinkingabout it


    Telling nerdy betas to share their women, knowing full well that while all those women Will crave Lennon, none of Lennon’s women will ever even glance at those betas.
     
    I think your analogy is in many ways apt, but . . . Yoko seems an acquired taste for a palette more refined than mine will ever be.

    Replies: @2Mintzin1, @The Alarmist

    “Yoko seems an acquired taste for a palette more refined than mine will ever be.”

    Kind of like old sushi.

    • LOL: Jim Don Bob
  133. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @AnotherDad

    "...i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates."

    Please do tell us what you really think. After all, the same argument can be used on Trump's behalf. More knowledgeable, wiser, more experience in life, etc. Something else that needs to be remembered. TV is a medium of images and not always simply words. Trump is a master at words. He is sharp enough for TV, certainly more so than Hillary.

    "Why can’t we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime–say a 58 year old, ’58er like Steve?"

    I'm sure Steve appreciates you calling him out on his age.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad

    How dare he estimate my age?!? I never wax nostalgic about seeing Sandy Koufax pitch or the 1965 USC-UCLA game or watching OJ rush for 238 yards vs. Oregon State.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Steve Sailer

    Age is just a number on the calendar.

    On two bittersweet nostalgic notes: Vin Scully called his last game for the Dodgers. I'd like to think that the Dodgers didn't force him out because of his age and that it's an age discrimination kind of thing.The man was pure class, a gentleman, and helped bring baseball to millions of Angelenos on their transistors. He made baseball "real" to the West Coast when it was unheard of to move an established MLB franchise west of the Mississippi.

    In PA last week, the PGA lost one of its all time greats in Arnold Palmer. Another gentleman that personified true grace, class, and without any of the egoism that so marks today's athletes. Its not too much of a stretch to state that Arnold Palmer nearly singlehandedly popularized the PGA for millions of Americans post-1950. His amazing comeback 1960 Masters tourney, the one where he was down by seven strokes but came back to win truly personifies grace under pressure. "Mr. PGA" is not a bad epitaph for the likes of Arnold Palmer.

    Arnie will be sorely missed. I'm sure the same will one day be said about Scully.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    How dare he estimate my age?!?
     
    Wikipedia changed your birthday, too, by eight days. You weren't born on the Feast of the Holy Innocents after all?
  134. @Brutusale
    @SPMoore8

    I'm a late Boomer, born in 1958. My artistic tastes, unlike a lot of my older Boomer friends, didn't cease to process new material in 1969, like Kevin Kline's character in The Big Chill. They constantly denigrate today's musicians as just not up to the technical chops of their 60s heroes, and they hate when I force them to listen to modern pop/rock virtuosos when they're at my place.

    Then there's the next generation:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYKLvYGqaC0

    This kid on drums could be a session player now.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Of course, the one “trump” card that the earlier boomers will play, is that many of today’s musical virtuosos are not in the majority of musicians. Today’s most dominant form of commercially successful music, is rap, gangsta, and hip hop. Generally speaking, rap is spoken word and makes use of few instruments other than keyboards and “sampling”. Up thru the ’70’s and into the ’80’s, perhaps early ’90’s, before rap gained the ascendency as most dominant musical form on the radio, charts, internet, pop culture, etc. you could definitely make the case that to make it in rock and other forms of musical genres one had to be a gifted and talented musician. Today, not so much.

    It is of course reassuring to hear of examples that you state, but remember: These kinds of gifted and talented musicians are by no means as commonplace as they were some decades ago and certainly aren’t going to be for the foreseeable future. For now, the future remains rap, gangsta, hip hop. Until that stranglehold on commercial music begins to fade, talented musicians will remain in the minority.

    • Replies: @Perplexed
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    ' "rap is spoken word and makes use of few instruments other than keyboards and “sampling".'

    That's what follows when music is eliminated from school curricula. Same as graffiti and art classes.

  135. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Glossy

    Lennon was also highly overrated as a musician and songwriter, particularly in comparison to his compatriot McCartney. Paul was a better singer, a far better instrumentalist, and a superior songwriter - particularly in the latter half of the Beatles' career. John wrote a majority of the earlier stuff (up through the Help! album), but from late 1965 onward almost all of their biggest hits were McCartney tunes. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if McCartney dissolved the group and his credit-sharing partnership with Lennon because he was tired of carrying Lennon.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild, @Jim Don Bob, @Former Darfur, @Flip, @2Mintzin1, @flyingtiger

    I agree. Both the original McCarthy and the guy who replaced him in 1967 were better singers, songwriters and musicians.

    • Replies: @Bob Smith of Suburbia
    @flyingtiger

    You've been reading Jim Fetzer's work, haven't you?

    ;)

  136. @Steve Sailer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    How dare he estimate my age?!? I never wax nostalgic about seeing Sandy Koufax pitch or the 1965 USC-UCLA game or watching OJ rush for 238 yards vs. Oregon State.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Reg Cæsar

    Age is just a number on the calendar.

    On two bittersweet nostalgic notes: Vin Scully called his last game for the Dodgers. I’d like to think that the Dodgers didn’t force him out because of his age and that it’s an age discrimination kind of thing.The man was pure class, a gentleman, and helped bring baseball to millions of Angelenos on their transistors. He made baseball “real” to the West Coast when it was unheard of to move an established MLB franchise west of the Mississippi.

    In PA last week, the PGA lost one of its all time greats in Arnold Palmer. Another gentleman that personified true grace, class, and without any of the egoism that so marks today’s athletes. Its not too much of a stretch to state that Arnold Palmer nearly singlehandedly popularized the PGA for millions of Americans post-1950. His amazing comeback 1960 Masters tourney, the one where he was down by seven strokes but came back to win truly personifies grace under pressure. “Mr. PGA” is not a bad epitaph for the likes of Arnold Palmer.

    Arnie will be sorely missed. I’m sure the same will one day be said about Scully.

  137. @Frau Katze
    @415 reasons

    Yes, I watched that too. There is zero chance of a restriction in low skilled migrants if Clinton wins. WTF is he thinking?

    Replies: @415 reasons

    And I mean to me it’s not even the worst of it. Anyone who has been living in urban areas in the past 50 years is used to living in a low trust place, and anyone who has done it in the last 20 is also used to it being a crowded polyglot nightmare on the streets. I mean nannies and construction workers and meat packers have been immigrants for over 20 years as they pointed out in the panel. It’s bad for people who might do those jobs to be on welfare instead, and it degrades the quality of life in some way but it’s still not so horrible.

    But importing a million Muslims who want to go on murderous rages? I mean it really is all downside in pursuit of a truly stupid utopian conception. I assume that in 20 years it won’t even be worth it to take the family to a parade because the likelihood of a bombing or stabbing will be so high and the parade will honor criminals and trannies not veterans and police.

    The fact that Hillary I’m sure has no actual real ideological belief in any of this bullshit but does it for the sake of it all being part and parcel of the Democrats strategy to rig every future election makes it all the more infuriating. In order to guarantee that they win Presidential elections they will import a hundred million third worlders and a million terrorists. What’s the fucking point!? To have a generous safety net and universal healthcare that will collapse under the weight of 100 million imkigrants in a few decades? If you win every Presidential election but to do it you debase the quality of life in every city and town did you really win?

  138. @Harry Baldwin
    @Whiskey

    I don't find it noteworthy that George W's daughter plans to vote for Hillary since George W himself as well as his father probably will vote for her too. Trump cannot be forgiven for torpedoing the Bush dynasty.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    I don’t find it noteworthy that George W’s daughter plans to vote for Hillary since George W himself as well as his father probably will vote for her too. Trump cannot be forgiven for torpedoing the Bush dynasty.

    Fair enough.

    However, i think Whiskey has his usual–confused–point.

    Of the twins, i was definitely more attracted to the–smarter–Barbara. (Her look too–my undergrad girlfriend had that body type–but mostly that she’s smarter.) But i could have told you immediately that she was the one more likely to:
    — do some sort of typical establishment useless world “saving” (one of the makework jobs we have for smart women)
    — become a Democrat
    — stay single longer
    — end up childless.
    While Jenna–not my type–was much more likely to
    — have a more traditional female job
    — stay Republican
    — get married earlier
    — have 3 or more kids.

    Now as it turns out, i’m spot on with Barbara, but Jenna–with the Bush name–has been given some establishment soft makework journalism employment, and isn’t much of a Republican either. (And just checked only two kids so far.)

    But the reality remains–though Whiskey is over the top with it all–that we’re losing our smart women. And the smarter, the worse it is.
    — we fill their heads with PC b.s. in school and the smarter ones–and girls *conform*–lap it up even more
    — we never give them an appreciation for our race, history, culture; the greatness of the West gets ignored or pissed on
    — we never explain, or emphasize enough the basic truths of how society functions, what holds it together and how it improves–and it is decidedly not by “activists”
    — we offer all this managerial liberalism and pretend it “helps” and “does good”
    — we push female careerism and claim it’s the path for personal fulfillment and validation
    — we denigrate child bearing
    — we push a two-and-done standard as normative and “environmentally responsible”
    and of course most of all:
    — don’t emphasize that genes really, really matter and their most important contribution is passing their own smart genes on.

    It is a *disaster*. We’re eating our seed corn–except not even eating it actually, throwing it on rocky ground and stomping on it is more like it. We could–if we’re lucky with Trump–turn around the immigration debacle.

    But without an HBD cultural victory, where smart young women return to believing that they are part of great lineage, that they aren’t going to save the world with some b.s. social work (which does essentially nothing), that the most important thing they can do is raise lots of smart, high quality, civilized children … and that doing that along with millions of their peers is what saves, not the world but our civilization … without all that, the West is toast.

    • Replies: @The Practical Conservative
    @AnotherDad

    Why would a smart woman commit to living a life that is low status and difficult (raising a lot of children, with some not being smart, the smarter the woman, the more likely to she is to have some extremes in baby production)?

    Smart women are smart enough to Notice that women raising large families are neither supported by their surrounding communities nor given lots of status points for having a lot of kids. Change that, you'll get more Anne Hutchinsons (smart women having tons of kids).

  139. I don’t know whether i picked it up from Steve or thought it up myself–it’s a fairly obvious idea–but the “Imagine” religion has definitely coalesced in my mind the last five years or so and especially the last year as the establishment has gone ballistic over Trump’s–very mild–critique of their globalist idiocy.

    The thing about “Imagine” is that just up front–even if one had no sense of history, culture and awareness of HBD–it’s nihilistic. Rolling around the “nothing to kill and die for” line even in my young mind, i realized inherently means you have *nothing to live for*. Which means your life is an empty vessel of mere pleasure and sensation … essentially dead to any higher truth, duty or love. You are a dog. No, that’s unfair dogs will actually kill and die for their master or their pups. You’re sort of a pig.

    But with any sense of, knowledge of, the world it gets worse. “Imagine” is just incredibly puerile. The ideology of a callow, stupid young person who just fundamentally doesn’t understand *anything* about human beings and the world we live in.

    And yet it’s *our establishment*–the supposed to be mature and responsible people!–who are spewing this juvenile ideology. That’s what’s so scary. Fundamentally stupid 20 year-olds–par for the course. A fundamentally silly, puerile establish establishment–death.

  140. @Dr. Doom
    I think we can all see how really dedicated these people are to a free movement of peoples with their gated communities, armed guards, and giant walls around their mansions with barbed wire and broken glass on top. If only we could follow their wonderful example by showing that kind of welcome to foreigners who want to displace us and steal our country. We certainly have a large enough military budget to be just as welcoming as these Ivory Tower snobs are to their neighbors.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    I think we can all see how really dedicated these people are to a free movement of peoples with their gated communities, armed guards, and giant walls around their mansions with barbed wire and broken glass on top.

    Trump should steal my line:

    “Hillary doesn’t want a wall, doesn’t want there to be a border around America to protect the value of your citizenship. But she sure wants a border around her bank account to protect all the loot she’s been paid to be a stooge of Wall Street. For what’s valuable to you … she doesn’t care about people breaking the law and breaking in. But for *her* stuff, her loot, she wants armed guards to shoot on sight, death or prison for anyone breaking in.

    I say if Hillary doesn’t want to have a real border around America and anyone’s allowed to come in and help themselves to what we have, then there shouldn’t be a border around Hillary’s bank account and everyone is entitled to come in and help themselves to what she has.”

  141. @AnotherDad
    @Harry Baldwin


    I don’t find it noteworthy that George W’s daughter plans to vote for Hillary since George W himself as well as his father probably will vote for her too. Trump cannot be forgiven for torpedoing the Bush dynasty.
     
    Fair enough.

    However, i think Whiskey has his usual--confused--point.

    Of the twins, i was definitely more attracted to the--smarter--Barbara. (Her look too--my undergrad girlfriend had that body type--but mostly that she's smarter.) But i could have told you immediately that she was the one more likely to:
    -- do some sort of typical establishment useless world "saving" (one of the makework jobs we have for smart women)
    -- become a Democrat
    -- stay single longer
    -- end up childless.
    While Jenna--not my type--was much more likely to
    -- have a more traditional female job
    -- stay Republican
    -- get married earlier
    -- have 3 or more kids.

    Now as it turns out, i'm spot on with Barbara, but Jenna--with the Bush name--has been given some establishment soft makework journalism employment, and isn't much of a Republican either. (And just checked only two kids so far.)

    But the reality remains--though Whiskey is over the top with it all--that we're losing our smart women. And the smarter, the worse it is.
    -- we fill their heads with PC b.s. in school and the smarter ones--and girls *conform*--lap it up even more
    -- we never give them an appreciation for our race, history, culture; the greatness of the West gets ignored or pissed on
    -- we never explain, or emphasize enough the basic truths of how society functions, what holds it together and how it improves--and it is decidedly not by "activists"
    -- we offer all this managerial liberalism and pretend it "helps" and "does good"
    -- we push female careerism and claim it's the path for personal fulfillment and validation
    -- we denigrate child bearing
    -- we push a two-and-done standard as normative and "environmentally responsible"
    and of course most of all:
    -- don't emphasize that genes really, really matter and their most important contribution is passing their own smart genes on.


    It is a *disaster*. We're eating our seed corn--except not even eating it actually, throwing it on rocky ground and stomping on it is more like it. We could--if we're lucky with Trump--turn around the immigration debacle.

    But without an HBD cultural victory, where smart young women return to believing that they are part of great lineage, that they aren't going to save the world with some b.s. social work (which does essentially nothing), that the most important thing they can do is raise lots of smart, high quality, civilized children ... and that doing that along with millions of their peers is what saves, not the world but our civilization ... without all that, the West is toast.

    Replies: @The Practical Conservative

    Why would a smart woman commit to living a life that is low status and difficult (raising a lot of children, with some not being smart, the smarter the woman, the more likely to she is to have some extremes in baby production)?

    Smart women are smart enough to Notice that women raising large families are neither supported by their surrounding communities nor given lots of status points for having a lot of kids. Change that, you’ll get more Anne Hutchinsons (smart women having tons of kids).

  142. @ussr andy
    @Jim Christian

    without 60's counter-culture everyone would be listening to "we don't want them in our schools" type tunes.
    music is truly one area something good came out of the 60's counter-culture (probably aided by the electronics revolution.)

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    And what music was truly good that came out of the sixties? I know, I know, commercially-snappy hooks and jingles, we hear them on the commercials, in stores and of course, the dentist and elevators. I remember a few of Led Zeplin’s horrible, overplayed pieces were enhanced via accompaniment by symphonies, Chunks Of Led by PBS. A few others, too. Robert Klein did funny stuff with the Mancini School symphanies in his comedy routines. But seriously, what works of the sixties by the counterculture rock bands and those that followed will be remembered once they are dead and long gone, say by 2068?

    What 60’s counterculture figure that wrote a one-hit wonder or a complete body of work will be remembered as one of the Greats in Music, not just the 60’s? Not Lennon, not McCartney, not Jackson, nor John, nor Hendrix. Three chords with a hook and two verses repeated over 3 minutes’ time to accommodate a commercial rotation on Top 40 does not a true classic make. Although, the Disc Jockeys DID love Stairway To Heaven because it was just long enough to leave the air studio, take a leak, cop a blowjob from a station-groupie and toot three lines to get them through the rest of their air shift.

    These will not be made Mozart or Bach by the stoned memories of misguided youth. They will disappear. Great orchestras will never do their pieces except for some novelty on Broadway, perhaps. Broadway scores from this era may endure, but not the 60s classic rock.

    Next thing is someone will tell me what a great era was Disco.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Jim Christian

    And punk, starting with the Ramones! Lol!

  143. @flyingtiger
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    I agree. Both the original McCarthy and the guy who replaced him in 1967 were better singers, songwriters and musicians.

    Replies: @Bob Smith of Suburbia

    You’ve been reading Jim Fetzer’s work, haven’t you?

    😉

  144. @Jim Christian
    @ussr andy

    And what music was truly good that came out of the sixties? I know, I know, commercially-snappy hooks and jingles, we hear them on the commercials, in stores and of course, the dentist and elevators. I remember a few of Led Zeplin's horrible, overplayed pieces were enhanced via accompaniment by symphonies, Chunks Of Led by PBS. A few others, too. Robert Klein did funny stuff with the Mancini School symphanies in his comedy routines. But seriously, what works of the sixties by the counterculture rock bands and those that followed will be remembered once they are dead and long gone, say by 2068?

    What 60's counterculture figure that wrote a one-hit wonder or a complete body of work will be remembered as one of the Greats in Music, not just the 60's? Not Lennon, not McCartney, not Jackson, nor John, nor Hendrix. Three chords with a hook and two verses repeated over 3 minutes' time to accommodate a commercial rotation on Top 40 does not a true classic make. Although, the Disc Jockeys DID love Stairway To Heaven because it was just long enough to leave the air studio, take a leak, cop a blowjob from a station-groupie and toot three lines to get them through the rest of their air shift.

    These will not be made Mozart or Bach by the stoned memories of misguided youth. They will disappear. Great orchestras will never do their pieces except for some novelty on Broadway, perhaps. Broadway scores from this era may endure, but not the 60s classic rock.

    Next thing is someone will tell me what a great era was Disco.

    Replies: @BB753

    And punk, starting with the Ramones! Lol!

  145. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Cletus Rothschild

    Well let's see, going by their most popular singles from1966-1970 McCartney wrote:
    Paperback Writer
    Eleanor Rigby
    Yellow Submarine (sung by Ringo)
    Penny Lane
    Hello Goodbye
    Hey Jude
    Get Back
    Let it Be
    The Long and Winding Road

    Lennon wrote:
    Strawberry Fields Forever
    All You Need is Love
    Come Together

    Good songs to be sure, but it's a quantity not quality issue. Maybe he was too busy protesting the war and obsessing over Yoko to write more songs.

    Replies: @Cletus Rothschild

    “going by their most popular singles”

    A less than admirable attempt at goal-post shifting there.

  146. Why do people want to live in a world without meaningful distinctions?

    If I was born in John Lennon’s utopia, I’d probably find ways to create new factions, tribes and hierarchies. Can you really imagine what life would be like without them?

  147. My take on John Lennon is that he never went to university and therefore never had the opportunity to learn that he was intellectually small fry and thought he knew it all and was a master of everything. His drawings/paintings are rubbish and politically he was obviously naive and just a slave to the dominant hippy culture of the 1970’s. Contrast with John Cleese, who came from an educated background and went to university, who was/is similarly hero worshipped – in the UK at least – yet has always deferred to professional politicians and has been low key on politics although taking an active interest at times.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @martin2

    A working class hero is something to be.

  148. @dfordoom
    @AndrewR


    Murray is pre boomer
     
    And it's worth remembering that Lennon was not a Baby Boomer either.

    For those that want a generation to hate, hate the pre-boomer generation. They're the ones that began the destruction of our civilisation.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    That mantle could go to any number of age cohorts. The forced integration of the two decades following the war was not implemented by Lennon’s generation.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @AndrewR


    That mantle could go to any number of age cohorts.
     
    Agreed. Every generation since the beginning of the 20th century has made its contribution to the destruction of western civilisation.
  149. @anon930

    Imagine there's no heaven
    Imagine all the people living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    Imagine all the people living life in peace

    Imagine no possessions
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
     
    This is why I'm not a liberal. Lennon's view of human nature is completely different from my own.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @415 reasons, @22pp22, @22pp22, @Santoculto, @Critical Eye

    Imagine there’s no countries
    Said the man who emigrated to the US to avoid high taxes

    Imagine no possessions
    Said the man who left a $250 Million estate

    Imagine all the people sharing all the world
    Said the man who essentially left his first wife and son out of his will

  150. @AndrewR
    @dfordoom

    That mantle could go to any number of age cohorts. The forced integration of the two decades following the war was not implemented by Lennon's generation.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    That mantle could go to any number of age cohorts.

    Agreed. Every generation since the beginning of the 20th century has made its contribution to the destruction of western civilisation.

  151. @Perplexed
    @Whiskey

    "Islam is a good deal for women, which is why they defend the burqua (fat covering garment that reduces inter-female hotness competition for the few Alpha dudes) and Islam (women share big shot Alphas). And men detest Islam (since they not women end up as the slaves)."

    You don't seem to know much about Islam. All Muslims are slaves, and women more so. And it's only leftists that defend burkas.

    Clueless.

    Replies: @biz

    The commenter was right though that in the West non-Muslim women often have a unconscious attraction to, and sympathy with, Islam more often than men.

  152. @martin2
    My take on John Lennon is that he never went to university and therefore never had the opportunity to learn that he was intellectually small fry and thought he knew it all and was a master of everything. His drawings/paintings are rubbish and politically he was obviously naive and just a slave to the dominant hippy culture of the 1970's. Contrast with John Cleese, who came from an educated background and went to university, who was/is similarly hero worshipped - in the UK at least - yet has always deferred to professional politicians and has been low key on politics although taking an active interest at times.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    A working class hero is something to be.

  153. @The Alarmist
    @Harry Baldwin

    The original lyrics of Get Back from the unpublished Get Back/Let it Be sessions were totally anti-immigrant, and there were other gems like The Commonwealth Song ("I'd join the Common market, but it's much to common for me."). Whether they were jesting or really anti-immigrant, those warm-up songs could never be allowed to see the light of day, which is why they are not in the Anthology collection, while a lot of garbage is, because it was seriously in-hip to be racist in London circa 1970.

    But it was still OK to be Trans-phobic and even Homo-phobic, which is why Get Back ended up the way it did.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    What is transphobia today was just leg-pulling humor back then. The same could arguably be said of Lou Reed’s ‘Walk on the Wild Side’ written 3 years later, though it usually gets read as a kind of manifesto.

    Holly came from Miami F.L.A.
    Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
    Plucked her eyebrows on the way
    Shaved her legs and then he was a she
    She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,
    Said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side

    But today, political correctness allows no middle ground—of teasing, gentle humor—to exist between the extremes of humorless, pious, approval and vengeful, hysterical condemnation.

  154. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @AnotherDad

    "...i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates."

    Please do tell us what you really think. After all, the same argument can be used on Trump's behalf. More knowledgeable, wiser, more experience in life, etc. Something else that needs to be remembered. TV is a medium of images and not always simply words. Trump is a master at words. He is sharp enough for TV, certainly more so than Hillary.

    "Why can’t we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime–say a 58 year old, ’58er like Steve?"

    I'm sure Steve appreciates you calling him out on his age.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @AnotherDad

    Please do tell us what you really think. After all, the same argument can be used on Trump’s behalf. More knowledgeable, wiser, more experience in life, etc. … He is sharp enough for TV, certainly more so than Hillary.

    First off, let’s be honest Trump lost the 1st debate. If the actual loss v. Hillary wasn’t catastrophic, his loss versus the *opportunity* to highlight his positions and especially to highlight Hillary’s negatives–serial failures, corruption, owned by Goldman–and define her as the corrupt screwup candidate was catastrophic. How much of that was because at 70 he can’t really hold all the requisite points, shots and quips in his head vs. never being very smart\verbally agile in terms of being able to store and deliver debating points, don’t know.

    On this age question, basically we’re talking about two curves–declining mental acuity vs. accumulating wisdom. At 40 most people–who are ever going to grow up–are no longer youthfully stupid, but they still can benefit a lot from accumulating experience, especially experience at the more senior positions they are now in. By their mid to late 50s they’ve had that experience and the “wisdom” curve is flattening. In contrast the “mental acuity” curve is steepening its decline. So at some point you get a peak–not as wise as you’ll ever be, not as sharp as you once were, but the best combination.

    Most presidents took office in their 50s and even the successful two termers were out by their early to mid 60s.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age
    Most companies promote and retire their CEOs on this same sort of schedule.

    Obviously there is personal variance and and modern sanitation and health care help–if you stay fit. (Mitt Romney looked and sounded on top of it last cycle at 65, his problem was the establishment globo nonsense Mitt believes.) But we haven’t really done much with basic aging. Trump seems to have a lot of energy and be fundamentally fit, but doesn’t seem all that sharp. Hillary–i’m about 90% sure–is not physically\mentally fit for the job period, beyond being incompetent and evil.

    Age matters.

  155. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Brutusale

    Of course, the one "trump" card that the earlier boomers will play, is that many of today's musical virtuosos are not in the majority of musicians. Today's most dominant form of commercially successful music, is rap, gangsta, and hip hop. Generally speaking, rap is spoken word and makes use of few instruments other than keyboards and "sampling". Up thru the '70's and into the '80's, perhaps early '90's, before rap gained the ascendency as most dominant musical form on the radio, charts, internet, pop culture, etc. you could definitely make the case that to make it in rock and other forms of musical genres one had to be a gifted and talented musician. Today, not so much.

    It is of course reassuring to hear of examples that you state, but remember: These kinds of gifted and talented musicians are by no means as commonplace as they were some decades ago and certainly aren't going to be for the foreseeable future. For now, the future remains rap, gangsta, hip hop. Until that stranglehold on commercial music begins to fade, talented musicians will remain in the minority.

    Replies: @Perplexed

    ‘ “rap is spoken word and makes use of few instruments other than keyboards and “sampling”.’

    That’s what follows when music is eliminated from school curricula. Same as graffiti and art classes.

  156. @Yngvar
    @Sean

    It's capitalism that's humanity's natural state, not free markets. Everybody wants to accumulate stuff but nobody wants a level playing field, unless it takes away someone else's advantage.

    It's not possible to "subordinate society to the market". The market is society. The market is us.

    Replies: @Sean

    The nation state can do anything to the market, corporations or people, including forcing corporations to pay taxes, or sending people off to die in a war, whether they want to or not.

    Most societies are actually nation states, or want to become one, because though requiring sacrifices they provide protection for the majority. That has been forgotten by elites, but they are being corrected and reminded of their responsibilities.

  157. @SPMoore8
    @Flip

    I think Paul got the idea for "For No One" from the Adams Family theme. Myself, I prefer the Rockford Files:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg1Cx26-928

    Replies: @stillCARealist

    No, the McCartney song follows a pretty standard Beatles chord progression. It’s pleasing and simple, totally unlike the trash I hear on the radio now.

    I’d forgotten how fun that Rockford Files song was, particularly when the electric guitar takes over the melody. A different era.

  158. @JohnnyD
    It's only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with "Imagine."

    Replies: @Darin, @SFG, @Clifford Brown, @Reg Cæsar

    It’s only a matter of time before they replace the Star Spangled Banner with “Imagine.”

    Ironically, the latter was composed in America, the former in England. Only the words are American. Which makes it weird at the Olympic medal ceremony. We need a native melody for that. (Dixie, perhaps?)

  159. @AnotherDad
    @415 reasons


    He’s 3 years younger than John Lennon was.
     
    You've got to draw these somewhat arbitrary generational lines somewhere.

    One of my mom's younger sisters also a very late Silent--born a year earlier than Murray. There's no doubt that such folks who grew up in the pleasant 1950s and have *no* memory of the depression and the war are very very different sorts of folks than people like my parents for whom those experiences were absolutely formative, and more similar to the experiences of the early boomers.

    Yet ... the boomers are "a thing". The boom, boomed when the GIs got home from the war. My mom's youngest sister (baby of family) was born in '46--a lead boomer along with Bill Clinton, W, Mitt Romney, Trump, Hillary--and she, only a few years younger than her big sis, is in a different pond with different experiences and perspectives more akin to say my oldest cousin who flew helicopters in Vietnam (not all of which landed gently--4 purple hearts, bronze star, DFC). (Of course even the lead boomer gals don't actually have that experience, so Hillary compensates by bombing other countries.)

    In short ... you gotta draw a line somewhere.

    ~~~
    BTW, the real generational question is why we're still stuck with these annoying, now geriatric lead boomers--Trump and Hillary--as our Presidential candidates? As much as i admire "the Donald" for picking up the immigration "$100 bill on the sidewalk" and running with it, giving us the first nationalist campaign and actual "choice not an echo" in a long while ... he's clearly an old guy and not as sharp as he should be. And Hillary, holy cow what a shameless exercise in vanity.

    I'm not as sharp as i was at 20--seeing my son perform mentally reminds me of it--but i compensate by being way, way, way more knowledgeable and wiser, plus my faculties are still sharp enough to have ripped Hillary a new one in the debates. Why can't we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime--say a 58 year old, '58er like Steve?

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Desiderius

    Why can’t we have a nationalist candidate in their presidential prime–say a 58 year old, ’58er like Steve?

    Because that we isn’t big enough.

    That is no accident.

  160. @Steve Sailer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    How dare he estimate my age?!? I never wax nostalgic about seeing Sandy Koufax pitch or the 1965 USC-UCLA game or watching OJ rush for 238 yards vs. Oregon State.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Reg Cæsar

    How dare he estimate my age?!?

    Wikipedia changed your birthday, too, by eight days. You weren’t born on the Feast of the Holy Innocents after all?

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