The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Latino Immigrants Would be Less Likely to Trash and Burn Down America's Forests if We Only Dared Ask Them Not to
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

As I’ve often mentioned, a striking example of the dysfunction of our social discourse is how we can make almost no progress on what ought to be one of our countries least intractable problems — Latino littering — because everytime anybody (e.g., Tucker Carlson, Amy Wax, or Ann Coulter) points out that we have a Latino littering problem, the Conventional Wisdom shrieks in outrage over this Blood Libel.

If you can get them to calm down a bit, they tend to back up to the claim that there is No Evidence.

Of course, there is plenty of evidence, but then they specify academic papers. And, in truth, our problem of Latino littering is understudied academically, precisely because so many influential people get spitting mad over it (for reasons that are much murkier, and of course haven’t been much studied at all).

But it does turn out that there are a few academic studies. For example: Carr and Williams, 1993, “Understanding the Role of Ethnicity in Outdoor Recreation Experiences” in the Journal of Leisure Research.

Carr and Williams interviewed people at four spots in the San Gabriel Mountains of Southern California, including the notorious East Fork of the San Gabriel River. They didn’t record behavior, just attitudes, but the findings were clear: Whites (Anglos) and American-born Chicanos had been well-indoctrinated in pro-social ideas about forests, while Latino immigrants had not. On the whole, SoCal Anglos & US-born Chicanos are aware that you shouldn’t litter in the mountains, while Latino immigrants aren’t. It turns out that the researchers arrived at roughly the same conclusions in 1993 that I did in 2013: Shaming people into not littering more or less works, as long as you try.

One explanation is that those of Anglo origin and more acculturated Hispanics, by virtue of their long-term residence in the United States, have been exposed to an intensive anti-litter, anti-fire campaign. The messages range from “Give a Hoot, Don’t Pollute” to “Only you can prevent forest fires!,” to the visual image of a Native American standing in the litter next to a freeway with tears rolling down his cheek. Messages of this bent may be echoed back in the responses provided by those of Anglo descent and the more acculturated Hispanic individuals born in this country.

Those born outside the United States may not be aware of either the social norms involved or the centrality of these norms to using the forest.

Latino littering is a socially constructed problem that presumably could be socially deconstructed with a Hispanic-focused version of the old “Crying Indian” anti-littering campaign that successfully racially shamed whites into not messing up this beautiful land:

We should have Spanish-language ads where your littering makes Taylor Swift cry.

 
Hide 59 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Maybe Morrissy can do a PSA, or Flaco Himenez? Is he still alive?

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
    I'm going with Flaco on this one. He's still kicking at age 80.
    , @petit bourgeois
    My Vote is for Art Leboe, my favorite Armenian.
  2. >where your littering makes Salma HayekTaylor Swift cry.<

  3. ¡No te metas con Aztlán!

    • Agree: neutral
    • Replies: @swami_cuckenstein
    Just take it, not only those do those conservacucks in Utah deserve to get Mestizo'd but they will learn Spanish and intermarry with the light skinned (sexy) Mexican elites.
    , @Svevlad
    Oooh, this one is good. Puts everyone either in a tricky situation or gets them autistically screeching.

    If I lived in America I'd make the fucking posters and start sticking them up in hispanic areas, then watch the shitshow
  4. Indians in India litter. They don’t stand in queues, they are rude, they litter, they’re belligerent — all of it. Often the very same Indians when they travel to a developed nation adapt to what that new nation expects of them. Not all of them, but most do. I also imagine most of them do because they recognize life in the US/UK is way better than life back home and they have a good thing going, they better not mess it up by being difficult and unaccomodating. They also have a sense of superiority compared to Indians ‘back home’.

    I wonder how much of this is true to Latinos as well. Imagine a campaign that claims they’ve ‘made it’ and they’re a cut above, because they ‘get’ what it means to assimilate… and these virtues (no littering, no fighting, no breaking queues etc) means they’re more refined / superior to their ill-mannered brethren back home.

    I’m sure someone will have an issue with the message. But it’s a fairly powerful driver. People was to fit in and be viewed as successful. No one wants to be considered as those dirty Latinos / smelly Indians.

    Act like this: it makes you more like us (which you secretly want to be but will not admit in public), and less like them (whom you are secretly embarrassed by).

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
    Indians in India litter. They don’t stand in queues, they are rude, they litter, they’re belligerent — all of it. Often the very same Indians when they travel to a developed nation adapt to what that new nation expects of them. Not all of them, but most do. I also imagine most of them do because they recognize life in the US/UK is way better than life back home and they have a good thing going, they better not mess it up by being difficult and unaccomodating. They also have a sense of superiority compared to Indians ‘back home’.

    I read an article from some Indian paper that said you could always tell who the NRIs (Non Resident Indians) were driving on the road, because they were the only ones with seatbelts on.

  5. Victor Davis Hanson has often commented on Hispanic littering, and he’s an academic.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Not to mention all the dead dogs and roosters dumped on his farm from betting fights. (I used to listen to his podcast.) The one that got me was the zoning legal asymmetry for Hispanics and whites. Hanson had to jump through these hoops while the illegal Hispanics made homemade housing/water modifications without any government agency raising hell. (Keep in mind he lives in rural California on a multigenerational orchard.)
  6. Steve,

    Some decades ago a Chinese-American colleague informed me about the public incivility of mainland Chinese. Recently their government has introduced measures to induce public civility. Viola, now there has been marked increases in public manners!

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Problem: those people are Chinese. The ones we're concerned with are the people who can't hold a job in Mexico.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    Viola, now there has been marked increases in public manners!
     
    There has also been a marked increase in orchestration, what with all those violas.
    , @The Plutonium Kid
    But what does an orchestral string instrument have to do with public manners?
  7. Latino Immigrants Would be Less Likely to Trash and Burn Down America’s Forests if We Only Dared Ask Them Not to

    No, they would be less likely to trash and burn down America’s forests if only we kept them out of America.

    • Agree: donut, Jim bob Lassiter
  8. @Reg Cæsar
    ¡No te metas con Aztlán!



    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/8a/68/d78a6819022b6f75cfd568b7c13c02b5.png

    Just take it, not only those do those conservacucks in Utah deserve to get Mestizo’d but they will learn Spanish and intermarry with the light skinned (sexy) Mexican elites.

  9. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    Some decades ago a Chinese-American colleague informed me about the public incivility of mainland Chinese. Recently their government has introduced measures to induce public civility. Viola, now there has been marked increases in public manners!

    Problem: those people are Chinese. The ones we’re concerned with are the people who can’t hold a job in Mexico.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  10. Morrissey isn’t a bad choice, actually.

    It also seems like it would be pretty easy to swap out the Crying Indian with some kind of crying Aztec Warrior.

    Or you could copy the approach of the famous “Any Questions?” anti-drug ad, and go for a blunt metaphor — compare trashing the environment to trashing your low-rider, maybe? Joking/not joking.

    It’s really a shame that Latino Littering is considered such an off-limits topic, because the creative possibilities for ad guys to address it seem endless. And just think: All those anti-littering ads from the 70s are some of the most famous ad campaigns in history, and became cherished parts of American culture.

    It really was one of the most successful propaganda campaigns ever — within about a decade, they managed to take a somewhat novel idea and make it seem like it was an integral part of Who We Are As Americans. The commies could only dream of pulling off such a cultural coup. Hell, our current elites could only dream of such success with their preferred policies. Littering really does seem uniquely susceptible to propaganda.

    Why do we insist on putting shackles on the creative ad geniuses of the 21st century? Why are we stopping them from making their mark on history? 😉

    • Replies: @Mr. Blank
    Now that I think of it, one reason littering might be so easily modified by propaganda is because it's a subject where it's fairly easy for ad guys to hijack what Jonathan Haidt called the purity/degradation axis of moral reasoning. It's probably not all that difficult to herd people into seeing litter as a violation of some kind of religious taboo.

    There aren't a lot of issues where you can break things down that cleanly. It might be a clever psychological hack with only limited real-world political applications.
  11. i don’t know man. this is kind of like when Republicans say africans will vote republican if you just make the correct case to them. somehow, no matter what you say, what you do, how often you repeat it, how many decades you spend on it, they…don’t.

    it’s totally possible people from Latin America just pollute, will always pollute, will continue to pollute no matter what ‘case’ you make to them. i’m not saying that’s the situation, but it easily could be. just like how they were supposed to be natural conservatives.

    the National Park crowd are the true natural conservatives, in a literal not political sense. almost no other humans are. that’s probably why the only other humans you encounter in national parks are the Japanese, who have a similar vibe. Japan is spotless. even Korea is kinda dirty, although getting less so. China is filthy. in general even east asians aren’t literal natural conservatives. they’ll litter and burn and consume and dirtify everything in their path eventually too.

    • Agree: jim jones
  12. While you’re at it, ask them to please pull over when an ambulance is coming-up behind them. Ask to please put bike helmets on their kids. Ask to please look both ways before walking across the street. Ask to please..oh heck, don’t get me started.

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    Ask them not to let their kids run wild in the grocery store. Ask them not to have so many kids.
    , @Jim bob Lassiter
    Deport them to Singapore for cultural re-education.
    , @Bizarro World Observer
    I'd be a lot happier if they'd stop clogging up the fast lane.
  13. @Mr. Blank
    Morrissey isn't a bad choice, actually.

    It also seems like it would be pretty easy to swap out the Crying Indian with some kind of crying Aztec Warrior.

    Or you could copy the approach of the famous "Any Questions?" anti-drug ad, and go for a blunt metaphor — compare trashing the environment to trashing your low-rider, maybe? Joking/not joking.

    It's really a shame that Latino Littering is considered such an off-limits topic, because the creative possibilities for ad guys to address it seem endless. And just think: All those anti-littering ads from the 70s are some of the most famous ad campaigns in history, and became cherished parts of American culture.

    It really was one of the most successful propaganda campaigns ever — within about a decade, they managed to take a somewhat novel idea and make it seem like it was an integral part of Who We Are As Americans. The commies could only dream of pulling off such a cultural coup. Hell, our current elites could only dream of such success with their preferred policies. Littering really does seem uniquely susceptible to propaganda.

    Why do we insist on putting shackles on the creative ad geniuses of the 21st century? Why are we stopping them from making their mark on history? ;)

    Now that I think of it, one reason littering might be so easily modified by propaganda is because it’s a subject where it’s fairly easy for ad guys to hijack what Jonathan Haidt called the purity/degradation axis of moral reasoning. It’s probably not all that difficult to herd people into seeing litter as a violation of some kind of religious taboo.

    There aren’t a lot of issues where you can break things down that cleanly. It might be a clever psychological hack with only limited real-world political applications.

    • Replies: @Mr. Blank
    Or a more pessimistic take: It might just be that's it's really easy to shame people into not littering because once you've been made aware that littering is A Thing, it's really, really, REALLY hard to come up with any kind of counterargument to it. Like, once you've eaten from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, there's no going back. What are you going to say? "Littering is a deep and honored part of our people's culture?"

    It's difficult for me to imagine even the most freakish postmodern academic lunatic advancing that argument. Then again, a decade ago I didn't think "women can have penises" would have been considered a mainstream academic idea.

    , @El Dato

    It’s probably not all that difficult to herd people into seeing litter as a violation of some kind of religious taboo.
     
    This only works if it is backed up by a weekly display of Gods Anger being justly meted out through local representatives.

    Slow public executions in theocratic societies have their purpose.
  14. @Mr. Blank
    Now that I think of it, one reason littering might be so easily modified by propaganda is because it's a subject where it's fairly easy for ad guys to hijack what Jonathan Haidt called the purity/degradation axis of moral reasoning. It's probably not all that difficult to herd people into seeing litter as a violation of some kind of religious taboo.

    There aren't a lot of issues where you can break things down that cleanly. It might be a clever psychological hack with only limited real-world political applications.

    Or a more pessimistic take: It might just be that’s it’s really easy to shame people into not littering because once you’ve been made aware that littering is A Thing, it’s really, really, REALLY hard to come up with any kind of counterargument to it. Like, once you’ve eaten from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, there’s no going back. What are you going to say? “Littering is a deep and honored part of our people’s culture?”

    It’s difficult for me to imagine even the most freakish postmodern academic lunatic advancing that argument. Then again, a decade ago I didn’t think “women can have penises” would have been considered a mainstream academic idea.

  15. Now that I think of it, one reason littering might be so easily modified by propaganda is because it’s a subject where it’s fairly easy for ad guys to hijack what Jonathan Haidt called the purity/degradation axis of moral reasoning. It’s probably not all that difficult to herd people into seeing litter as a violation of some kind of religious taboo.

    Good insight Mr. Blank. Hadn’t thought of it in those terms.

  16. The litter is merely a symptom.
    What they do in the voting booth is far far worse. I’m convinced that these people are brainless. Probably entirely lacking an inner dialog.

    • Replies: @IC
    It's also the encroaching corruption and incompetence from myriad sources, black and latino underclasses, immigrants from corrupt cultures, liberal white elites, public unions, that will bring down the US. It's when public utilities or mass transit can't be maintained to first world standards. When illiterate and innumerate nitwits are graduated from the public schools. A huge swathe of academia is an idiocracy and a huge swathe of "Americans" are immoral.

    At best we'll become Greece or Italy, at worst, Brazil or South Africa.
  17. Oh, Mr Sailer! Taylor Swift is far far too old!

    If you want to successfully socially re-engineer litterbug Latino men by an advert, the lachrymose blonde Nordic goddess will have to be either 12 years old*- or a Mexican TV weather bimbette.

    *Just ask Ann Coulter

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Hey, Miss Prognostico de Adonis, yeah, you in the tight white jeans, is that a squall line building up there in south Texas? Yeah, down there near Brownsville - turn around and point it out - it may cause some hail damage. Lower, yes, lower down by the Rio. Si, Claro! Mios Dios, Mapa De Superficie!
    , @Bert
    Does socio-economic stratification explain the contradictory Mexican standards for female attractiveness? Lordosis for the upper and middle classes, and pre-pubescent slimness for the lowest stratum.
  18. Littering is a job Americans won’t do.

  19. How to put it….

    The nice slogans in the Lone Star State weren’t working and were ignored until the notably effective, “Don’t Mess With Texas.”

  20. @Diversity Heretic
    Victor Davis Hanson has often commented on Hispanic littering, and he's an academic.

    Not to mention all the dead dogs and roosters dumped on his farm from betting fights. (I used to listen to his podcast.) The one that got me was the zoning legal asymmetry for Hispanics and whites. Hanson had to jump through these hoops while the illegal Hispanics made homemade housing/water modifications without any government agency raising hell. (Keep in mind he lives in rural California on a multigenerational orchard.)

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    Hanson should make a medieval catapult and sling the animal corpses back into the camps of the invaders.
  21. Stopping littering is a good idea but cannot we do something about the godawful paint jobs Mexicans apply to their homes and businesses too? How they choose to decorate the interior of their own automobiles is their business as I do not have to look at it but green paint on anything doesn’t look good particularly if it is next to red or blue.

  22. @SafeNow
    While you’re at it, ask them to please pull over when an ambulance is coming-up behind them. Ask to please put bike helmets on their kids. Ask to please look both ways before walking across the street. Ask to please..oh heck, don’t get me started.

    Ask them not to let their kids run wild in the grocery store. Ask them not to have so many kids.

  23. @Kronos
    Not to mention all the dead dogs and roosters dumped on his farm from betting fights. (I used to listen to his podcast.) The one that got me was the zoning legal asymmetry for Hispanics and whites. Hanson had to jump through these hoops while the illegal Hispanics made homemade housing/water modifications without any government agency raising hell. (Keep in mind he lives in rural California on a multigenerational orchard.)

    Hanson should make a medieval catapult and sling the animal corpses back into the camps of the invaders.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    This might be construed as a weapon of mass destruction and the FBI/BATF will make your life miserable with long-range precision shooters.
    , @Kronos
    I believe his surrounding town is slightly over 75% Hispanic. So he could shoot the catapult basically anywhere. He’s an expert on ancient warfare so he might possess feasible catapult blueprints.

    -Hell, he can hire some Hispanics from Home Depo to help build it.

    -Wikipedia


    2010

    The 2010 United States Census[12] reported that Selma had a population of 23,219. The population density was 4,520.6 people per square mile (1,745.4/km²). The racial makeup of Selma was 12,869 (55.4%) White, 284 (1.2%) African American, 479 (2.1%) Native American, 1,057 (4.6%) Asian, 9 (0.0%) Pacific Islander, 7,630 (32.9%) from other races, and 891 (3.8%) from two or more races.

    Hispanic or Latino of any race were 18,014 persons (77.6%).
     

  24. We are getting into a strange world where minorities are so sacred that rules do not apply to them. Blacks should not be disciplined in school, and latinos should not be educated about the virtues of cleanliness. We will have a future in which rules apply only to whites (with increasing totalitarianism) while others will have free rein to litter, rape and kill.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    It's called Anarchy-tyranny.

    If only there was a web site somewhere that published old classics (well 15 years old) on the topic.

    Oh! Wait!
    https://www.unz.com/sfrancis/anarcho-tyranny-where-multiculturalism-leads/
    , @Bert
    Don't bemoan these developments. Their absurdity will awaken Caucasians.
  25. @Lockean Proviso
    Hanson should make a medieval catapult and sling the animal corpses back into the camps of the invaders.

    This might be construed as a weapon of mass destruction and the FBI/BATF will make your life miserable with long-range precision shooters.

  26. @Mr. Blank
    Now that I think of it, one reason littering might be so easily modified by propaganda is because it's a subject where it's fairly easy for ad guys to hijack what Jonathan Haidt called the purity/degradation axis of moral reasoning. It's probably not all that difficult to herd people into seeing litter as a violation of some kind of religious taboo.

    There aren't a lot of issues where you can break things down that cleanly. It might be a clever psychological hack with only limited real-world political applications.

    It’s probably not all that difficult to herd people into seeing litter as a violation of some kind of religious taboo.

    This only works if it is backed up by a weekly display of Gods Anger being justly meted out through local representatives.

    Slow public executions in theocratic societies have their purpose.

  27. I guess the t.v. commercial wouldn’t have worked if people knew it was really a crying Italian. Nobody cares about crying Italians.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    That commercial was a spaghetti Public Service Announcement apparently. It should have had some Good, Bad, and the Ugly music in the background. Maybe the Italian, err, Indian should have carried a big revolver and dared us to mess with Texas. Then, a group of fake Federales comes along and says "trash cans? We don't neeed no steeeenking trash cans!"
  28. @Dumbo
    We are getting into a strange world where minorities are so sacred that rules do not apply to them. Blacks should not be disciplined in school, and latinos should not be educated about the virtues of cleanliness. We will have a future in which rules apply only to whites (with increasing totalitarianism) while others will have free rein to litter, rape and kill.

    It’s called Anarchy-tyranny.

    If only there was a web site somewhere that published old classics (well 15 years old) on the topic.

    Oh! Wait!
    https://www.unz.com/sfrancis/anarcho-tyranny-where-multiculturalism-leads/

  29. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    Some decades ago a Chinese-American colleague informed me about the public incivility of mainland Chinese. Recently their government has introduced measures to induce public civility. Viola, now there has been marked increases in public manners!

    Viola, now there has been marked increases in public manners!

    There has also been a marked increase in orchestration, what with all those violas.

  30. @G. Poulin
    I guess the t.v. commercial wouldn't have worked if people knew it was really a crying Italian. Nobody cares about crying Italians.

    That commercial was a spaghetti Public Service Announcement apparently. It should have had some Good, Bad, and the Ugly music in the background. Maybe the Italian, err, Indian should have carried a big revolver and dared us to mess with Texas. Then, a group of fake Federales comes along and says “trash cans? We don’t neeed no steeeenking trash cans!”

  31. @Ano
    Oh, Mr Sailer! Taylor Swift is far far too old!

    If you want to successfully socially re-engineer litterbug Latino men by an advert, the lachrymose blonde Nordic goddess will have to be either 12 years old*- or a Mexican TV weather bimbette.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1PTLUn6iXs

    *Just ask Ann Coulter

    Hey, Miss Prognostico de Adonis, yeah, you in the tight white jeans, is that a squall line building up there in south Texas? Yeah, down there near Brownsville – turn around and point it out – it may cause some hail damage. Lower, yes, lower down by the Rio. Si, Claro! Mios Dios, Mapa De Superficie!

    • LOL: Alden
  32. @Ano
    Oh, Mr Sailer! Taylor Swift is far far too old!

    If you want to successfully socially re-engineer litterbug Latino men by an advert, the lachrymose blonde Nordic goddess will have to be either 12 years old*- or a Mexican TV weather bimbette.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1PTLUn6iXs

    *Just ask Ann Coulter

    Does socio-economic stratification explain the contradictory Mexican standards for female attractiveness? Lordosis for the upper and middle classes, and pre-pubescent slimness for the lowest stratum.

  33. @Dumbo
    We are getting into a strange world where minorities are so sacred that rules do not apply to them. Blacks should not be disciplined in school, and latinos should not be educated about the virtues of cleanliness. We will have a future in which rules apply only to whites (with increasing totalitarianism) while others will have free rein to litter, rape and kill.

    Don’t bemoan these developments. Their absurdity will awaken Caucasians.

  34. Granted. This may not be true now, but I doubt it.

    I lived in a fairly large city in upper Thailand for a year in the early ’70’s. Klongs (canals) ran through town, usually between areas lined with all sort of shops, stores, markets. They were mostly dry during the dry season, and offered a place for most of the water to go during the rainy season.

    It was appalling. The klong was filled on both sides by refuse of all sorts from the shops lining them. It got worse as the dry season progressed. Then, when is started raining most of the trash, rotted food, dead animals were washed away. Not completely, but mostly.

    So don’t leave Asians out of the equation.

  35. @Reg Cæsar
    ¡No te metas con Aztlán!



    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/8a/68/d78a6819022b6f75cfd568b7c13c02b5.png

    Oooh, this one is good. Puts everyone either in a tricky situation or gets them autistically screeching.

    If I lived in America I’d make the fucking posters and start sticking them up in hispanic areas, then watch the shitshow

    • Replies: @Dube
    The ¡No te metas con Aztlán! graphic - we know it's good and why. But would the target population catch the sense of metas? It's not a poster for a general uprising. Test it in some focus groups and get back to us.
  36. We should have Spanish-language ads where your littering makes Ana de Armas cry.

    FIFY.

  37. … dysfunction of our social discourse …
    … precisely because so many influential people get spitting mad over it (for reasons that are much murkier, and of course haven’t been much studied at all).

    Murkier … LOL. Yep, minoritarianism.

    Of course, saying “Latino littering” pisses them off. Steve, they have told you, and told you, and told you and yet you refuse to understand:

    Minorities do not do bad things–maybe there’s a bad apple here or there, because of their struggles with racism or sexist–but minority groups do not have negative characteristics. Minorities are virtuous victims. Straight white gentile males are the problem. They are terrorists–especially the blonder and more Germanic ones. They poison our air and water. They oppress minorities with their privilege. They don’t want to let virtuous immigrants into our nation. They rape innocent girls on campus. They shoot down innocent black men with their hands up. They rip children from the hands of their mothers at the border. They gaze upon women’s bodies. They have wrong opinions and say them out loud. They are always planning another Holocaust. They touch hair. They smirk.

    C’mon Steve. This has been explained to you–and every other American, Western, human on the planet–many, many, many times, in book and movie, newscast and article. And yet you persist in your bad thinking and bad writing. Of course, this drives good people nuts … how could it not?

    • Replies: @Elsewhere
    Nice O'Brien impersonation.
  38. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    Some decades ago a Chinese-American colleague informed me about the public incivility of mainland Chinese. Recently their government has introduced measures to induce public civility. Viola, now there has been marked increases in public manners!

    But what does an orchestral string instrument have to do with public manners?

  39. @Tim
    Maybe Morrissy can do a PSA, or Flaco Himenez? Is he still alive?

    I’m going with Flaco on this one. He’s still kicking at age 80.

  40. @SafeNow
    While you’re at it, ask them to please pull over when an ambulance is coming-up behind them. Ask to please put bike helmets on their kids. Ask to please look both ways before walking across the street. Ask to please..oh heck, don’t get me started.

    Deport them to Singapore for cultural re-education.

  41. I agree it’s time for another clever shaming. “Don’t Mess With Texas” may have usefully coincided with a renascent, mostly-ridiculous Texas nationalism but it’s clearly worn off and I don’t think it would have the same punch now, with so many newcomers (both domestic and international) indifferent to locale.

    There’s been a months-long NextDoor kerfuffle over some high school kids who park in a particular woodsy spot in the neighborhood; daily go out for lunch; return and discard their trash on the ground. Nearest-by adults are frustrated and have made efforts to involve the sheriff’s deputy stationed at the school, to deliver a talking-to; while others have offered the use of their personal home trash bins to the kids.

    Two things I have observed: one, nobody, not even the men, are comfortable personally telling the kids off – there is a bewildering deference to kids nowadays (or fear of parents?).* The other is that I see so much litter thrown from cars on my street, that I begin to suspect people are actually finicky – too finicky to have trash in their shiny late-model pickups and cars.

    So maybe the ad copy could exploit this finickiness somehow.

    *Years and years ago, I lived on a dead-end street that was an occasional hangout for kids to pull up at night and do kid things. I didn’t particularly resent this, but I did go out there once in awhile and bag up the trash. One evening as I was doing just this, some kids made the mistake of speeding up to my bent-over figure, stopping at the last possible moment, for a joke. I guess. I am sometimes unable to remember exactly what transpires when I am angry; all I recall is their worried faces, and one of the kids saying, “This bitch is crazy, let’s get out of here,” and their reversing at the same speed they entered. I could probably go intentionally unhinged on those kids around the corner, but it would conflict with my long habit of limiting my interaction with the people I live amongst.

    • Replies: @Savage Indifference
    I will add, though, anecdotally "against" the thesis of the column: a college group of us, not much known to one another but of similarly ordinary background, mostly Texan non-messers from our having been kids when that ad campaign shook Texas in its boots, were abroad and visiting a historical site in the UK - I think, the ancestral home of Lord Byron, which was supposedly in the Sherwood Forest, but I may have got that mixed up - where we picknicked, and we were, for one of the few times during the trip, united in being appalled at another such group, but of English kids, who left their picnic trash everywhere except the trash can, utterly unadmonished by their chaperones.
  42. @Doktor Jeep
    The litter is merely a symptom.
    What they do in the voting booth is far far worse. I'm convinced that these people are brainless. Probably entirely lacking an inner dialog.

    It’s also the encroaching corruption and incompetence from myriad sources, black and latino underclasses, immigrants from corrupt cultures, liberal white elites, public unions, that will bring down the US. It’s when public utilities or mass transit can’t be maintained to first world standards. When illiterate and innumerate nitwits are graduated from the public schools. A huge swathe of academia is an idiocracy and a huge swathe of “Americans” are immoral.

    At best we’ll become Greece or Italy, at worst, Brazil or South Africa.

  43. Brits have a thing for collecting their dog’s poop into a plastic bag and hanging it from a tree. This is absolutely insane behavior, but if you check into it, you’ll see it’s true. I find some of these poop ornaments in my neighborhood, and every time I see one I mutter to myself, “British.” Americans in general (though not the lower classes) are probably more anti-litter than most of the world, including Europe.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They're not hanging their own dog's poop from trees but other people's. It's social shaming. Everyone is supposed to clean up after their own dogs.
  44. @Savage Indifference
    I agree it's time for another clever shaming. "Don't Mess With Texas" may have usefully coincided with a renascent, mostly-ridiculous Texas nationalism but it's clearly worn off and I don't think it would have the same punch now, with so many newcomers (both domestic and international) indifferent to locale.

    There's been a months-long NextDoor kerfuffle over some high school kids who park in a particular woodsy spot in the neighborhood; daily go out for lunch; return and discard their trash on the ground. Nearest-by adults are frustrated and have made efforts to involve the sheriff's deputy stationed at the school, to deliver a talking-to; while others have offered the use of their personal home trash bins to the kids.

    Two things I have observed: one, nobody, not even the men, are comfortable personally telling the kids off - there is a bewildering deference to kids nowadays (or fear of parents?).* The other is that I see so much litter thrown from cars on my street, that I begin to suspect people are actually finicky - too finicky to have trash in their shiny late-model pickups and cars.

    So maybe the ad copy could exploit this finickiness somehow.

    *Years and years ago, I lived on a dead-end street that was an occasional hangout for kids to pull up at night and do kid things. I didn't particularly resent this, but I did go out there once in awhile and bag up the trash. One evening as I was doing just this, some kids made the mistake of speeding up to my bent-over figure, stopping at the last possible moment, for a joke. I guess. I am sometimes unable to remember exactly what transpires when I am angry; all I recall is their worried faces, and one of the kids saying, "This bitch is crazy, let's get out of here," and their reversing at the same speed they entered. I could probably go intentionally unhinged on those kids around the corner, but it would conflict with my long habit of limiting my interaction with the people I live amongst.

    I will add, though, anecdotally “against” the thesis of the column: a college group of us, not much known to one another but of similarly ordinary background, mostly Texan non-messers from our having been kids when that ad campaign shook Texas in its boots, were abroad and visiting a historical site in the UK – I think, the ancestral home of Lord Byron, which was supposedly in the Sherwood Forest, but I may have got that mixed up – where we picknicked, and we were, for one of the few times during the trip, united in being appalled at another such group, but of English kids, who left their picnic trash everywhere except the trash can, utterly unadmonished by their chaperones.

  45. The “Don’t Mess With Texas” campaign seemed to work just fine in convincing young, blue-collar Texan men (white, black, and Hispanic) in the 1980s to not throw trash from their trucks and cars, you know…

  46. Deportation and/or repatriation would also work.

    OT

    ‘My family is ashamed of me’: Men apologize for racist remarks aboard Labrador flight

    The two men at the centre of a storm of controversy related to their racist behaviour aboard a flight this week are offering public apologies to the Indigenous people of Labrador and their families.

    Dave Beck and Thomas Scott are both from St. John’s, and have worked for many years as plasterers and painters.

    They had been working on a hotel renovation project in Nalcor-owned Churchill Falls for nearly three weeks, employed by a Mount Pearl company called Kankote Enterprises. …

    But their drunken, rude and racist actions inside the close confines of a Dash 8 airplane led to their vilification on social media, firing from their jobs and banishment from Churchill Falls and PAL Airlines. …

    As passengers boarded the flight during a stopover in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Beck used the derogatory term “Eskimo” to describe an Indigenous person, prompting Scott to remark, “Can you smell him?” …

    Their behaviour prompted some passengers to begin photographing and videotaping the men, and later publishing imagery and messages on social media such as Facebook and Twitter.

    • Replies: @Alden
    So Eskimo is a pejorative now? I can’t keep up.
  47. This is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. We need to reverse the demographic change or nothing else matters.

  48. @ConfirmationBias
    Indians in India litter. They don’t stand in queues, they are rude, they litter, they’re belligerent — all of it. Often the very same Indians when they travel to a developed nation adapt to what that new nation expects of them. Not all of them, but most do. I also imagine most of them do because they recognize life in the US/UK is way better than life back home and they have a good thing going, they better not mess it up by being difficult and unaccomodating. They also have a sense of superiority compared to Indians ‘back home’.

    I wonder how much of this is true to Latinos as well. Imagine a campaign that claims they’ve ‘made it’ and they’re a cut above, because they ‘get’ what it means to assimilate... and these virtues (no littering, no fighting, no breaking queues etc) means they’re more refined / superior to their ill-mannered brethren back home.

    I’m sure someone will have an issue with the message. But it’s a fairly powerful driver. People was to fit in and be viewed as successful. No one wants to be considered as those dirty Latinos / smelly Indians.

    Act like this: it makes you more like us (which you secretly want to be but will not admit in public), and less like them (whom you are secretly embarrassed by).

    Indians in India litter. They don’t stand in queues, they are rude, they litter, they’re belligerent — all of it. Often the very same Indians when they travel to a developed nation adapt to what that new nation expects of them. Not all of them, but most do. I also imagine most of them do because they recognize life in the US/UK is way better than life back home and they have a good thing going, they better not mess it up by being difficult and unaccomodating. They also have a sense of superiority compared to Indians ‘back home’.

    I read an article from some Indian paper that said you could always tell who the NRIs (Non Resident Indians) were driving on the road, because they were the only ones with seatbelts on.

  49. @Tim
    Maybe Morrissy can do a PSA, or Flaco Himenez? Is he still alive?

    My Vote is for Art Leboe, my favorite Armenian.

  50. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:

    Keep America Beautiful was a lobbyist/front group for the northeastern beverage industry. Obviously the ad was a hit — Italians, they make the best PSA — but the group’s other efforts were focused on such lofty moral battles as stopping the Vermont bottle & can deposit charge. Left-wingers like to cite this as QED example of so-called greenwashing but it’s just possible the interests of litter prevention and protecting the brand health of disposable drink-containers were aligned in this case. Anyway it’s not half as inane as the crusade against plastic straws, which several expensively educated persons of my acquaintance take quite seriously

  51. everytime anybody (e.g., Tucker Carlson, Amy Wax, or Ann Coulter) points out that we have a Latino littering problem, the Conventional Wisdom shrieks in outrage over this Blood Libel.

    Is there a need to make it a racial/ethnic issue? It’s valid to express concern about littering. Highlighting racial groups, even those disproportionately involved, seems unnecessary and worthy of criticism.

    Similarly, I’ve noticed liberals express concern ofter housing costs and homelessness in expensive cities for blacks and hispanics. It seems like that should also be a race neutral problem. People of all races, even white people struggle to pay top dollar for in demand city housing and homelessness impacts white people as well as blacks/hispanics. The choice of liberal to focus that issue as a race one, seems worthy of criticism.

  52. @Svevlad
    Oooh, this one is good. Puts everyone either in a tricky situation or gets them autistically screeching.

    If I lived in America I'd make the fucking posters and start sticking them up in hispanic areas, then watch the shitshow

    The ¡No te metas con Aztlán! graphic – we know it’s good and why. But would the target population catch the sense of metas? It’s not a poster for a general uprising. Test it in some focus groups and get back to us.

  53. @Lockean Proviso
    Hanson should make a medieval catapult and sling the animal corpses back into the camps of the invaders.

    I believe his surrounding town is slightly over 75% Hispanic. So he could shoot the catapult basically anywhere. He’s an expert on ancient warfare so he might possess feasible catapult blueprints.

    -Hell, he can hire some Hispanics from Home Depo to help build it.

    -Wikipedia

    2010

    The 2010 United States Census[12] reported that Selma had a population of 23,219. The population density was 4,520.6 people per square mile (1,745.4/km²). The racial makeup of Selma was 12,869 (55.4%) White, 284 (1.2%) African American, 479 (2.1%) Native American, 1,057 (4.6%) Asian, 9 (0.0%) Pacific Islander, 7,630 (32.9%) from other races, and 891 (3.8%) from two or more races.

    Hispanic or Latino of any race were 18,014 persons (77.6%).

  54. @Bragadocious
    Brits have a thing for collecting their dog's poop into a plastic bag and hanging it from a tree. This is absolutely insane behavior, but if you check into it, you'll see it's true. I find some of these poop ornaments in my neighborhood, and every time I see one I mutter to myself, "British." Americans in general (though not the lower classes) are probably more anti-litter than most of the world, including Europe.

    They’re not hanging their own dog’s poop from trees but other people’s. It’s social shaming. Everyone is supposed to clean up after their own dogs.

  55. @AnotherDad


    … dysfunction of our social discourse ...
    … precisely because so many influential people get spitting mad over it (for reasons that are much murkier, and of course haven’t been much studied at all).
     
    Murkier … LOL. Yep, minoritarianism.

    Of course, saying "Latino littering" pisses them off. Steve, they have told you, and told you, and told you and yet you refuse to understand:

    Minorities do not do bad things--maybe there's a bad apple here or there, because of their struggles with racism or sexist--but minority groups do not have negative characteristics. Minorities are virtuous victims. Straight white gentile males are the problem. They are terrorists--especially the blonder and more Germanic ones. They poison our air and water. They oppress minorities with their privilege. They don't want to let virtuous immigrants into our nation. They rape innocent girls on campus. They shoot down innocent black men with their hands up. They rip children from the hands of their mothers at the border. They gaze upon women's bodies. They have wrong opinions and say them out loud. They are always planning another Holocaust. They touch hair. They smirk.

    C'mon Steve. This has been explained to you--and every other American, Western, human on the planet--many, many, many times, in book and movie, newscast and article. And yet you persist in your bad thinking and bad writing. Of course, this drives good people nuts … how could it not?

    Nice O’Brien impersonation.

  56. Here’s one way *not* to do it:

  57. @eah
    Deportation and/or repatriation would also work.

    OT

    'My family is ashamed of me': Men apologize for racist remarks aboard Labrador flight

    The two men at the centre of a storm of controversy related to their racist behaviour aboard a flight this week are offering public apologies to the Indigenous people of Labrador and their families.

    Dave Beck and Thomas Scott are both from St. John's, and have worked for many years as plasterers and painters.

    They had been working on a hotel renovation project in Nalcor-owned Churchill Falls for nearly three weeks, employed by a Mount Pearl company called Kankote Enterprises. ...

    But their drunken, rude and racist actions inside the close confines of a Dash 8 airplane led to their vilification on social media, firing from their jobs and banishment from Churchill Falls and PAL Airlines. ...

    As passengers boarded the flight during a stopover in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, Beck used the derogatory term "Eskimo" to describe an Indigenous person, prompting Scott to remark, "Can you smell him?" ...

    Their behaviour prompted some passengers to begin photographing and videotaping the men, and later publishing imagery and messages on social media such as Facebook and Twitter.
     

    So Eskimo is a pejorative now? I can’t keep up.

  58. @SafeNow
    While you’re at it, ask them to please pull over when an ambulance is coming-up behind them. Ask to please put bike helmets on their kids. Ask to please look both ways before walking across the street. Ask to please..oh heck, don’t get me started.

    I’d be a lot happier if they’d stop clogging up the fast lane.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
How America was neoconned into World War IV
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
Our Reigning Political Puppets, Dancing to Invisible Strings