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La Griffe du Lion's Fundamental Constant of Sociology Strikes Again
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From New Jersey Spotlight News:

Social workers rail against biased license exam

BOBBY BRIER | AUGUST 19, 2022 | SOCIAL

Hundreds joined meeting to complain after report confirmed their fears

Outraged social workers say a new report on the disparities of who passes their licensing exam confirms what many have long suspected.

“When I saw this report, all the 92 pages, I was so disgusted. I was so upset,” said one licensed clinical social worker at Rutgers University in Newark.

That social worker said she knew more nonwhites and older students were failing because she constantly heard from alumni who failed the exam. One of her students, a 55-year-old woman who is an immigrant, failed the exam five times before finally passing on her sixth attempt, the social worker said.

“I was outraged,” she said of what she read in the report.

Thursday’s virtual meeting with hundreds of registered participants follows the release earlier this month of a national report detailing large disparities in race and age among those who pass the licensing exam when taking the test for the first time.

Inherent bias
The report exposes the inherent bias within the test and shows, through data, the harm being done to the profession and marginalized communities, according to a newsletter from the New Jersey chapter of the National Association of Social Workers. Social work schools in New Jersey have been advocates in pushing for the release of the data from the Association of Social Work Boards, the New Jersey chapter said.

The report says that first-time pass rates have historically been highest for white test takers, averaging 83.9% between 2018 and 2021. In 2021, 85% of white test takers passed the clinical exam on their first attempt, while 46.2% of first-time Black test takers passed the clinical exam during the same period. The pass rate for multiracial test takers was 79.9%, while the pass rate for Asians was 72%. Hispanics passed by a rate of 65.1% and Native American and Indigenous peoples passed by 62.9% between 2018 and 2021.

I’m shocked, shocked to see this pattern of racial gaps on a cognitive test. In the 100+ years in which cognitive tests have a part of American life, has anybody see anything like this before?

“This whole ASWB exam, it’s institutional racism. It’s a fiasco,” said another social worker at the meeting who is an assistant professor of social work at Lehman College in New York.

An anonymous iSteve commenter responds:

This may be paywalled, but John McWhorter wrote a newsletter for the New York Times a week ago decrying the watering down of the credentialing test for social workers:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/opinion/racism-test.html

This caught my eye:

There is a Change.org petition circulating saying just that, based on the claim that the association’s clinical exam is biased because from 2018 to 2021 84 percent of white test-takers passed it the first time while only 45 percent of Black test-takers and 65 percent of Latino test-takers did. “These numbers are grossly disproportionate and demonstrate a failure in the exam’s design,” the petition states, adding that an “assertion that the problem lies with test-takers only reinforces the racism inherent to the test.”

The problem, they say, is that (1) the test is only given in English, and (2) the questions and answers are developed from a white pool of social workers.

The 84 percent caught my eye because it has meaning in statistics, so I decided to do a little mini-La-Griffe-du-Lion analysis of these three numbers below

86 is 68 plus 16, the percentage of a normal distribution above minus one standard deviation. So in other words, if 84 percent of whites passed the test, any white who scored a low as one standard deviation below the average score for whites passed, about five out of six white test takers.

So the pass line for this social work test is 1 SD below white average. Coincidentally, the average black IQ is 1 SD below the average white IQ. So you can immediately predict that in this test the black pass rate will be about 50 percent. Hispanics are about two thirds of an SD below whites, so I needed to consult a normal distribution calculator to determine that their predicted pass rate would be 63 percent.

So these results are completely expected. The predicted results closely track IQ. The results would be right on is you assume a black average IQ of 83 and a Hispanic average IQ of 91, not that far off from the standard 85 and 90 estimates.

There is no social work test that can be developed, even if optionally offered in Spanish and with questions developed by BIPOCs, that will achieve different results, just as the billions of dollars on the table (from UC, the Ivy League, and elsewhere) for an SAT replacement that will not have this gap has not resulted in any claimants (the Smarter Balanced test is the latest failed attempt). High stakes standardized written tests will always have this gap because such tests are cognitive and are IQ tests, perhaps with a little noise.

What La Griffe calls the Fundamental Constant of Sociology is the skeleton key that opens the black box of so many seeming mysteries of American life.

McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home and have more verbal parental-child interaction, using a larger vocabulary, will eliminate the gap. In other words, when black parents turn white and have white kids, the black-white gap will disappear.

Of course, you aren’t allowed to mention this in Wikipedia because the august conclave of Wikipedia obsessive editors have determined in their infinite wisdom that it’s all just “pseudoscience.”

 
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  1. “What La Griffe calls the Fundamental Constant of Sociology is the skeleton key that opens the black box of so many seeming mysteries of American life.” — “black box”? man, the microaggressions just never stop!

    • LOL: Sean
  2. I know Wikipedia editors strongly censor anti-woke narratives, but is there a specific Wiki topic you are referring to?

  3. The only social workers society needs are cops, prison guards, mental hospital employees, and executioners.

    • Thanks: Coemgen
    • LOL: Nicholas Stix
    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Redneck farmer

    Hospice workers?

    , @guest007
    @Redneck farmer

    A joke heard from the Cook County Sherriff is that she ran the largest mental health facility in Illinois. However, treating mental health issues with jail is very expensive and not effective at all. There are only so many spaces in jails and filling up those spaces with the mentally ill (the mad) who commit petty crimes means fewer spaces for harden criminals (the bad).

  4. “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.” By creating this false narrative around racial test score differences, the US establishment has inadvertantly created a gigantic web of lies and fantasies that stretches into very many corners of public life.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Peter Johnson


    a gigantic web of lies and fantasies...
     
    For which there are legions of thought police that demand we stand and chant the proper dogma on pain of cancellation.
    , @LP5
    @Peter Johnson

    Peter Johnson writes:


    By creating this false narrative around racial test score differences, the US establishment has inadvertantly created a gigantic web of lies and fantasies that stretches into very many corners of public life.
     
    There was nothing inadvertent about it. Intentionality shows up in the darnedest places.
  5. Certification is so Twentieth Century. In our brave new world, people should be free to be what they want to be.

    Since most doctors merely follow guidelines, why do we bother to certify them. Social work is more art than science … when was the last time anyone applied objective standards to the fine arts, much less the social arts masquerading as the social sciences?

    Witch doctors and amateur social workers will certainly be able to compete on price with certified doctors and social workers carrying six-figure (remaining) student loan debt from the Ivies. We’ll be free to choose among those who bother to voluntarily certify versus those who can’t or won’t.

    The poor may suffer in cases requiring medical care … then again, COVID demonstrated that too many doctors are rule-following automatons who can easily be replaced with cheaper unskilled labour. As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @The Alarmist


    As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.
     
    I am having trouble imagining what kind of questions are on a social worker certification test, and how dumb you would have to be not to know the answers.

    Replies: @Occasional lurker

    , @Anonymous
    @The Alarmist

    You joke, but consider that many, many potential doctors were unfairly barred from practicing medicine thanks to draconian licensing and rationing rules drafted not too long ago.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Nicholas Stix

    , @Jean_deValette
    @The Alarmist

    Race relations will never improve and may get worse, just so long as liberals refuse to accept the evidence for mean IQ varying between the respective races and blame the results of these differences on ‘racial discrimination’.

    This can only feed Blacks in particular with resentment and hostility, leading to actual violence against whites who are the hated ‘oppressors”.

    , @SaneClownPosse
    @The Alarmist

    "The poor may suffer in cases requiring medical care … then again, COVID demonstrated that too many doctors are rule-following automatons who can easily be replaced with cheaper unskilled labour."

    This replacement happened in USA with the passage of the Affordable Care Act under Obama.

    Former to ACA, "PCP" stood for "Primary Care Physician", post-ACA, it stands for "Primary Care Practitioner", a person that may not be a MD.

    This was how sickcare was made "affordable", by diluting the provided services.

    A practitioner utilizes a computer program that guides the practitioner through a flow chart of questions to determine a diagnosis. The same system that a call center worker in the third world uses to diagnose a consumer's issue with a service or product.

  6. I thought I was the only one who knew about this guy. I read his stuff over 20 years ago that explained why all the smartest and stupidest people were male.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Joe8056

    I used to read his work in affirmative action. Because affirmative action is my greatest concern.

    Affirmative action affects every White in America. Most Whites are never victims of black crime. And many Whites manage to avoid black unpleasantness altogether. Either because of location or money. The middle aged White American women who run the nursing associations and unions are constantly carrying on about how non White nurses fail the bigoted licensing exam. Just like middle aged White men did and these Rutgers useful idiots are doing.,

    Destroy the job prospects of the younger generation of Whites. And then complain they are still living with 3 roommates or at home and working part time no job security last hired first fired at 40

    To the MEN OF UNZ who graduated in 1965 and got a job and were neither outsourced or affirmative actioned until retirement. Go ahead and jump in with blathering about SATs GPAs employment aptitude and competency tests. Go right ahead and live in your ignorant bubble.

    It’s 2022, not 1967 the last year that employers and occupational licensers were allowed to consider aptitude and competency in hiring and granting licenses.

    The only license not affirmative actioned is the IBEW electricians license. Because even the most viciously anti White judges don’t want their courthouses to go up in flames because of affirmative action wiring.

    Replies: @Joe8056, @Anonymous

  7. I´m shocked, shocked to see this pattern of racial gaps on a cognitive test

    – Womxyn having higher pass rates across the board means the test cannot be
    blindingly cognitive (alternatively, only left-tail males try it in the first place).

  8. Which multiracials? They seem to fare better than Asians, who are also lagging behind whites.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I suspect the Asians who go into social work are not the sharpest Asians. Of course white social workers aren't all that either, but I think they're less mediocre as whites go.

    Replies: @Anon, @Hibernian, @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    , @ForeverCARealist
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Multiracial is the new BS category that more and more people mark down to give themselves an edge. Of course, in that particular area there may be lots of people who truly defy racial classification.
    But given their high pass rate, I'd say they're likely white people with a touch of ethnicity about them.

    , @Anon
    @Bardon Kaldian

    My guess is the ethnic makeup of the asians taking the test is skewed away from north east asian populations, and that this explains most of the difference.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  9. I don’t understand all the “n deviation standard constant blah blah blah” stuff. However, I do understand that if you make the test easier for blacks to pass at a first time rate of 84%(current rate for whitey) you will have a test that 99+% of whites will pass on the first try.

    Then they’ll really bitch.

    It’s not any different than when government school teachers complain, “Our state pays less than the national average. We need a raise!” Well, if they get said raise the average will go up and they’ll be stuck in the same scenario…below average.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mark in BC

    That's what they did with the Chicago fireman's hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AnotherDad, @Anon

  10. The fundamental constant is that society must pretend that coloreds have the same intellectual skills as whites and therefore must have the same outcomes.

  11. It is hard to overstate just how Demonic the white race is. Think about it. The people who designed this test had to work hard to pick questions which they knew in advance would be slam dunks for people who differ from the other test takers only in having pale skin. Those questions had also had to be constructed such that they disadvantaged people who differed from their white counterparts only by the amount of melanin in their skin. Again, think about that. How difficult it must have been for those who designed this test to have chosen just those questions which tripped up only the melanin enhanced.

    There is no other possible explanation than that these people are possessed of the Devil. Only the Devil himself could have inspired such wicked determination to have (1) conceived of such a scheme and (2) imbued them with the energy to have relentlessly carried it out.

    The Prophet Elijah Muhammad was right about these white-skinned devils; whereas the black man is noble and capable of self-restraint, the white race’s depravity knows no limits.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    @ThreeCranes

    There's an episode of the Jeffersons where boy genius Michael is determined to have a below-average IQ based on a test given to him at his school. Naturally, the family is outraged and Michael explains to the family how IQ tests are racially biased against blacks. Smash cut to James and Florida in the school Principal's office interrogating the Principal with questions like: What does "TCB" stand for? And... What's Malcolm X's last name? (and, no, it's not "Fannon"). Thank you, Norman Lear!

    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=463750025534727&_rdr

    Replies: @Joe Joe, @ScarletNumber, @Harry Baldwin, @Truth

  12. @Mark in BC
    I don't understand all the "n deviation standard constant blah blah blah" stuff. However, I do understand that if you make the test easier for blacks to pass at a first time rate of 84%(current rate for whitey) you will have a test that 99+% of whites will pass on the first try.

    Then they'll really bitch.

    It's not any different than when government school teachers complain, "Our state pays less than the national average. We need a raise!" Well, if they get said raise the average will go up and they'll be stuck in the same scenario...below average.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    That’s what they did with the Chicago fireman’s hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Steve Sailer

    What percentage of blacks have an IQ that is 75 or lower?

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Polistra

    , @AnotherDad
    @Steve Sailer


    That’s what they did with the Chicago fireman’s hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.
     
    Said it before:

    -- The push toward political hiring--patronage--is very strong in democracies. Racial/ethnic groups are going to want "their cut". (And some jobs--particularly policing--are very political. Policing is a job where one ethnicity policing others can be fraught.)

    -- If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then "affirmative action" or "disparate impact" messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Anon

    , @Anon
    @Steve Sailer


    That’s what they did with the Chicago fireman’s hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.
     
    Via Emil’s Substack today, here’s a deep dive from the 1990s by Linda Gottfriedson into one of these magic unbiased professional credential tests that briefly appeared in the wake of disparate impact lawsuits and federal threats:

    Gottfredson, L. S. (1996). Racially gerrymandering the content of police tests to satisfy the U.S. Justice Department: A case study. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 2(3/4), 418-446.

    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1996gerrymandering.pdf
     
    Gottfredson was brought in as an expert witness and had full access to everything. It was much more complex than simply making the test easier and pass/fail. Massive cheating was structurally enabled, and cognitive sections were eliminated in favor of five factor personality tests.
  13. @Bardon Kaldian
    Which multiracials? They seem to fare better than Asians, who are also lagging behind whites.

    Replies: @International Jew, @ForeverCARealist, @Anon

    I suspect the Asians who go into social work are not the sharpest Asians. Of course white social workers aren’t all that either, but I think they’re less mediocre as whites go.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Anon
    @International Jew

    The white-Asian gap in the social work exam is similar to the gap in the bar exam. Maybe Asians in the US just aren't that verbally oriented. I can think of all sorts of explanations why this would be the case.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    , @Hibernian
    @International Jew

    Probably heavily other than Chinese or Japanese and very heavily female, more so than the social work "profession" as a whole.

    , @Lbbhjgddfddfdd
    @International Jew

    Yes, it’s selection bias.

    Also, with Hispanics and Asians, a reasonable case could be made that the English-only test disadvantages them. I imagine social work draws more heavily from immigrants/first generation than other vocational pursuits. Then again, Ebonical-Americans maybe have a legit gripe on that front, too.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  14. I don’t care how smart social workers are. In general, government bureaucracies get dumber employees than those who work in private business. It’s been that way in our history, very much contrary to the history of the Mandarins in government in Chinese history. (Just being able to read and write in that language is big freaking deal.)

    I like our way better – if you’re gonna have people laying down lots of rules on us, better it be people who really can’t understand it all.

    If you’re complaining about the unfairness of it all, well, AA has been around for coming up on 60 years. If you support that in any way, then you really have no standing to complain about rigged testing and that sort of thing. In for a penny, in for a pound.

    On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    "On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes."

    Rumor has it he has removed all mention of the extreme anti-abortion position he had adopted for the primary from his website. Probably a good idea but not an example of standing on principle.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Hibernian
    @Achmed E. Newman


    I like our way better – if you’re gonna have people laying down lots of rules on us, better it be people who really can’t understand it all.
     
    Certainly not good for the EPA and OSHA.
    , @Alden
    @Achmed E. Newman

    AA was imposed 61 years ago by President Kennedy’s Executive Order 10925 March 6 1961. All federal agencies and federal contractors shall take affirmative action to hire negroes. All federal agencies shall take affirmative action to use negro contractors.
    March 6 1961 7 weeks after he became president.

    There have been state referendums to end affirmative action. Referendums that held up in the courts when the White hating liberals appealed the results. There have been a very very few court decisions in favor of a White college applicant denied the job or admission because they are White.

    But the referendums and court rulings were never enforced so what use were they?

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @Polistra

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Achmed E. Newman


    ...the Mandarins in government in Chinese history. (Just being able to read and write in that language is big freaking deal.)
     
    You're such a character!
  15. @Peter Johnson
    "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." By creating this false narrative around racial test score differences, the US establishment has inadvertantly created a gigantic web of lies and fantasies that stretches into very many corners of public life.

    Replies: @bomag, @LP5

    a gigantic web of lies and fantasies…

    For which there are legions of thought police that demand we stand and chant the proper dogma on pain of cancellation.

    • Agree: Peter Johnson
  16. I don’t think I’d score very well on this test. I don’t even know precisely what it is ‘social workers’ do.

  17. Reality doesn’t matter to people who are in the grip of an evil and false religion, as our elite ruling class most certainly is. Facts will be bent, stretched, and twisted to fit the mythological narrative. The bad outcomes that their falsehoods invariably produce don’t matter at all to these people. Those outcomes occur in the real world, which they hate with a passion.

  18. I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say. Regarding Social Workers (SW) and whites, I’ve observed the SW attract two types of whites: 1 the genuinely dim. 2 smart but lazy who thought an undemanding govt job would suit them.

    Bad news for type 2. In my state, SWs are hit with huge caseloads of seriously broken people. For this reason, the type 2 (smart but lazy) whites soon bail.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @watson79

    Like public defenders, true believing idealists and those who can't get a job elsewhwere. More of the latter than the former.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @watson79


    I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say.
     
    Yes, most of the popular bloggers ran out of steam long ago, c.f. HalfSigma, who has been floundering as Lion of the Blogosphere for many years now. His last post was September 12, 2021.

    I’ve observed the SW attract two types of whites
     
    The third type is the general idealistic do-gooder. I wouldn't classify them as lazy per se, but they seem to not have great understanding of where money comes from and why their jobs don't pay very well even though they are "important"

    Replies: @Curle, @MEH 0910

    , @Ralph L
    @watson79

    A former neighbor got a masters of SW online from Liberty U and hated the work. Didn't like his coworkers or the clients. Before that, he told me he wanted to move to the coast, but it would be underwater in a few years. I managed to resist laughing at him.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

  19. This may be paywalled, but John McWhorter wrote a newsletter for the New York Times a week ago decrying the watering down of the credentialing test for social workers:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/opinion/racism-test.html

    Archived link (to bypass paywall): https://archive.ph/DkD81

    [MORE]

    • Thanks: bomag
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    John McWhorter and Ibram X. Kendi's Twitter Fight | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2Yj9TetIuA
    Sep 6, 2022


    Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss John's contentious online exchange with the Boston University professor and racial justice advocate.
     
    Transcript of this clip at Glenn Loury's Substack:

    https://glennloury.substack.com/p/john-takes-on-ibram-x-kendi
  20. @The Alarmist
    Certification is so Twentieth Century. In our brave new world, people should be free to be what they want to be.

    Since most doctors merely follow guidelines, why do we bother to certify them. Social work is more art than science ... when was the last time anyone applied objective standards to the fine arts, much less the social arts masquerading as the social sciences?

    Witch doctors and amateur social workers will certainly be able to compete on price with certified doctors and social workers carrying six-figure (remaining) student loan debt from the Ivies. We’ll be free to choose among those who bother to voluntarily certify versus those who can’t or won’t.

    The poor may suffer in cases requiring medical care ... then again, COVID demonstrated that too many doctors are rule-following automatons who can easily be replaced with cheaper unskilled labour. As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Anonymous, @Jean_deValette, @SaneClownPosse

    As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.

    I am having trouble imagining what kind of questions are on a social worker certification test, and how dumb you would have to be not to know the answers.

    • Agree: Renard
    • Thanks: The Alarmist
    • LOL: Hibernian, AndrewR
    • Replies: @Occasional lurker
    @Jim Don Bob

    As a social worker, you have to be well versed in law and administrative practice regarding social benefits of diverse kinds as well as (for example) what the legal position is regarding a child that you suspect is maltreated by its parents, under what conditions may you or must you intervene, what options are there? I would not expect to be able to pass a social worker licensing exam, even though I am probably two standard deviations above the typical social worker in IQ.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @The Problem with Midway

  21. Wait a minute. Didn’t a higher percentage of women than men pass the test in every group? Isn’t that what’s important? How come everyone’s missing the big takeaway?

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Anymike

    Indeed, and imagine what the gap would have been were women not handicapped by their menstrual cycles.

    , @Renard
    @Anymike

    Because that's a desired result. The goal is to get URMs to outperform whites and asians, however we have to do it. Then we will finally achieve "equity".

    Of course, no remotely competent test will do this. So first they'll just add 50 points to URM scores. Then they'll just scrap the test entirely. Tests are racist, just like other white supremacist concepts, such as competency.

  22. Here’s a riddle: Are these misunderstandings (and their corresponding political effects) because we don’t teach enough statistics in school, or are they because not enough people are capable of understanding statistics?

    Ahh, and that wraps into itself: The numbers of people who can’t understand statistics are themselves a statistic and thus themselves captives of the laws of statistics.

    There is no avoiding it.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Creating a situation where the only people who go into teaching are those with education degrees rather than degrees in their subject is not ideal.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  23. Helping the needy get along in an unfairly white world certainly requires a proper knowledge of that white world.
    I think everyone can agree with that.

  24. @Buzz Mohawk
    Here's a riddle: Are these misunderstandings (and their corresponding political effects) because we don't teach enough statistics in school, or are they because not enough people are capable of understanding statistics?

    Ahh, and that wraps into itself: The numbers of people who can't understand statistics are themselves a statistic and thus themselves captives of the laws of statistics.

    There is no avoiding it.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Creating a situation where the only people who go into teaching are those with education degrees rather than degrees in their subject is not ideal.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @nebulafox

    Statistics is one of those subjects we don't spend enough time and effort on teaching our young people. This and financial math, plus basic civics, would go a long way toward returning our society to something resembling Western Civilization.

    We could incorporate these subjects into our curricula, helping Americans of every background to better understand the world they live in. They could then better cooperate and value each other's strengths, working together with mutual respect.

    Nah.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edIi6hYpUoQ

  25. 86 is 68 plus 16, the percentage of a normal distribution above minus one standard deviation. So in other words, if 84 percent of whites passed the test, any white who scored a low as one standard deviation below the average score for whites passed, about five out of six white test takers.

    I know where the number 84 came from, but where does the standard deviation come from? It could be anything, depends on the data, but does not seem to be provided here. And where does 68 come from? 68% is the fraction of a normal distribution that falls within 1 standard deviation, whereas the 84% is a population mean – those aren’t comparable, you can’t add and subtract those values and have it be meaningful.

  26. Well, if you remember that Buffalo plane crash where the pilot and co-pilot, chatting away, did not notice ice building up on the wing, and the pilot forgot how to pull out of the resulting stall, you will recall that the boy pilot failed his practical test twice before passing and the girl co-pilot failed hers once before passing. So I say, put the idiots in social work, not cockpits.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Henry Canaday

    The Big Law law firm that I once worked at fired everyone who did not pass the bar exam on the first try one year. The backstory was that a recession had hit and they were looking for excuses to get rid of people but it's probably not a bad notion. If you look at politicians who did not pass the bar exam on their first try they are not a intellectually promising bunch. Of course nowadays this would be racis' fo' sure.

    Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can't pass on your first try maybe there shouldn't be a 2nd try and you should do something else - be a cargo pilot or do ATC or something.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Etruscan Film Star

    , @James B. Shearer
    @Henry Canaday

    "...did not notice ice building up on the wing, and the pilot forgot how to pull out of the resulting stall .."

    Actually a little more complicated than that. They were worried about icing and set the stall warning to go off at a higher speed than normal. In the event while there was some icing it wasn't having much effect on plane's performance. When the stall warning went off the plane was not actually in or near a stall. But the male pilot reacted by pulling up (basically the opposite of what you are supposed to do). This did stall the plane. An automatic system tried to push the nose down but the pilot overrode it and continued to pull up quickly crashing the plane. The much younger female pilot was largely a bystander but didn't help any. Before the stall warning went off as pilot not flying she was supposed to be monitoring the air speed as they prepared to land. If she had been she would have seen the air speed was dropping towards where the stall warning would go off and could have warned "air speed". If the male pilot had reacted correctly by increasing air speed this would have probably avoided trouble.

    The male pilot's actions are hard to understand. Stall recovery is really basic airmanship. But for some reason he seems to have been in a blind panic and reacted instinctively. And when you are low like they were you only have a few seconds to come to your senses.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Henry Canaday

  27. McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home

    Not long ago, we had the tragedy of the unbanked. Are we now faced with the unbooked?

    If only there were a place where people, black or white, could go to read and borrow books to take home and read free of charge. Wouldn’t a place like that solve the shortage of reading material and eliminate the problem of “book deserts” in black homes?

    Someday, perhaps, we may see the advent of such places. Until then, we will just have to continue to sit on our hands and bemoan the fact that owning books is #8,737 on the list of manifestations of White Supremacy.

    (Seriously, though: I read the NYT article, and John McWhorter does not give a single reason as to why “the language socialization of the Trackton child” is “almost book-free.”

    Is it possible the explanation is as simple as blacks simply do not value books?

    I cannot think why any household that wants books in 2022 is unable to afford them at a time when books are cheaper and more plentiful than they have ever been. Am I missing something?)

    • Agree: Fluesterwitz
    • Replies: @Renard
    @Nervous in Stalingrad


    Is it possible the explanation is as simple as blacks simply do not value books?
     
    Books, and everything they represent.
    , @Dan Kurt
    @Nervous in Stalingrad

    RE: "McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home"

    "Are we now faced with the unbooked?" Nervous in Stalingrad

    It is not a question of Books in a home but the Brains in the child.

    My father's only books in our home were self help ones and technical tomes on our one book shelf. My mother, as far as I know, never read a book in her long life almost making it to 96. They raised two children who were book worms and still are and both siblings reached the post doctorate level and one retired as a tenured professor.

    The tyranny of the IQ curve is the limiting factor: that is the take away lesson of La-Griffe-du-Lion.

    Dan Kurt

    Replies: @Curle

  28. @Bardon Kaldian
    Which multiracials? They seem to fare better than Asians, who are also lagging behind whites.

    Replies: @International Jew, @ForeverCARealist, @Anon

    Multiracial is the new BS category that more and more people mark down to give themselves an edge. Of course, in that particular area there may be lots of people who truly defy racial classification.
    But given their high pass rate, I’d say they’re likely white people with a touch of ethnicity about them.

  29. @Redneck farmer
    The only social workers society needs are cops, prison guards, mental hospital employees, and executioners.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @guest007

    Hospice workers?

  30. @Anymike
    Wait a minute. Didn't a higher percentage of women than men pass the test in every group? Isn't that what's important? How come everyone's missing the big takeaway?

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Renard

    Indeed, and imagine what the gap would have been were women not handicapped by their menstrual cycles.

  31. I’m Shocked, Shocked I tell you, that there was no comment on the appalling sexism evident in these results.
    This must be deliberate because it flies in the face of pretty much all general IQ test results.

  32. These numbers are grossly disproportionate and demonstrate a failure in the exam’s design,”

    Of course, they don’t suggest fixing the exam’s design, they suggest getting rid of it. That’s because they know that it is literally impossible to fix it. Even if the test was entirely given in Spanish and Ebonics and the test questions concerned the relative merits of rappers and various street drugs, white people would STILL outscore others by virtue of their higher IQ, which gives them greater capacity to memorize stuff and recall and process it quickly in a test context. Simply dumbing down the test doesn’t work – whites will still pass at a higher rate. (Of course if you set the “pass” level low enough eventually everyone of every race will pass but this kind of defeats the purpose of the test.) Any paper and pencil test is ultimately an IQ test. The whole notion of g is that it is a measure of intellectual horsepower or CPU speed – if you have a fast computer it will solve any problem faster than a slow one.

    McWhorter can be forgiving for assuming that this is all nurture based and if only black people talked more to their kids this could be remedied – everyone knows how famously taciturn black people are. The notion that this is all genetic and is not going away and is never going away as long as different races exist in America and that we have imported (not one but two) huge and permanent underclasses is too horrible to contemplate.

    • Agree: bomag, Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    McWhorter can be forgiv[en] for assuming that this is all nurture based
     
    Wrong. He is simply lying. He is smart enough to know that Blacks in aggregate are inherently dumber than the rest. One doesn’t get published in the NYT opinion section for being honest about race.

    Cuck “conservative” Whites like to unironically cite McWhorter and Sowell, etc. because they themselves don’t want to admit the truth about inherent racial intelligence gaps.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @petit bourgeois
    @Jack D

    I met John McWhorter in 2002 during his office hours at UC Berkeley when he was a linguistics professor and I was a lowly undergrad. A very smart man. We had a lengthy discussion about how chewing tobacco influenced the southern drawl.

    He's not going to come out and say that negros are lower IQ than Whites. He's not going to shit where he eats. He needs a paycheck, just like the rest of us. He's not an idiot.

    Replies: @Curle

  33. Back in the real world, this piece on Europe’s de-industrialization looks at the central yet almost totally overlooked part the Banks have played in the energy catastrophe.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/europe-energy-armageddon-from-berlin-brussels-not-moscow/5792005

    Engdahl is always worth the read.

  34. @International Jew
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I suspect the Asians who go into social work are not the sharpest Asians. Of course white social workers aren't all that either, but I think they're less mediocre as whites go.

    Replies: @Anon, @Hibernian, @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    The white-Asian gap in the social work exam is similar to the gap in the bar exam. Maybe Asians in the US just aren’t that verbally oriented. I can think of all sorts of explanations why this would be the case.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon


    The white-Asian gap in the social work exam is similar to the gap in the bar exam.
     
    Why didn’t you capitalize White?

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Lbbhjgddfddfdd
    @Anon

    Many people aspire to become lawyers, and families celebrate that achievement. Asians, at least the JICK’s, probably only become lawyers if they fail at STEM, and are forced to go to an Ivy safety school after being rejected by MIT.

    Replies: @Jack D

  35. A good demonstration of just how dumbed down our society has gotten. The outrage is not that unqualified aspiring social workers eventually get jobs even after bombing the licensing test multiple times, it’s aimed at the witchcraft that prevents them from passing at the same rates as whites and Asians, although the exact mechanism of the voodoo cannot be determined.

    That said, I am not sure social workers are able to accomplish much with their clients no matter how smart or talented they are. One thing that I didn’t see mentioned in the recent news associated with Biden’s cancellation of student debt is any mention of a) the degrees achieved or pursued most commonly associated with large or long term debt or b) what schools have disproportionately high levels of former students that cannot get ahead on paying off their loans. There was a lot of wailing that blacks are disproportionately affected by student debt, but no one seems eager to look into what they are trying to get degrees in or from where.

    • Replies: @Rob Lee
    @Arclight

    Well it would have to be Ethnic Studies... I don't think they were indebted to their medical or math degrees.

  36. @Henry Canaday
    Well, if you remember that Buffalo plane crash where the pilot and co-pilot, chatting away, did not notice ice building up on the wing, and the pilot forgot how to pull out of the resulting stall, you will recall that the boy pilot failed his practical test twice before passing and the girl co-pilot failed hers once before passing. So I say, put the idiots in social work, not cockpits.

    Replies: @Jack D, @James B. Shearer

    The Big Law law firm that I once worked at fired everyone who did not pass the bar exam on the first try one year. The backstory was that a recession had hit and they were looking for excuses to get rid of people but it’s probably not a bad notion. If you look at politicians who did not pass the bar exam on their first try they are not a intellectually promising bunch. Of course nowadays this would be racis’ fo’ sure.

    Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can’t pass on your first try maybe there shouldn’t be a 2nd try and you should do something else – be a cargo pilot or do ATC or something.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Jack D

    "Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can’t pass on your first try maybe there shouldn’t be a 2nd try and you should do something else .."

    This might have an unintended effect of reducing standards if examiners started passing marginal candidates instead of washing them out forever.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Etruscan Film Star
    @Jack D


    Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can’t pass on your first try maybe there shouldn’t be a 2nd try and you should do something else – be a cargo pilot or do ATC or something.
     
    Crashing a cargo plane can have undesirable effects on the pilots and possibly people on the ground where the aircraft goes in. (If I recall, there was at least one fatality in the Buffalo residential neighborhood that was the crash site.) And air traffic control plays its own big role in flight safety.

    "Or something" would be a good alternative career path for incompetent pilots.
  37. @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't care how smart social workers are. In general, government bureaucracies get dumber employees than those who work in private business. It's been that way in our history, very much contrary to the history of the Mandarins in government in Chinese history. (Just being able to read and write in that language is big freaking deal.)

    I like our way better - if you're gonna have people laying down lots of rules on us, better it be people who really can't understand it all.

    If you're complaining about the unfairness of it all, well, AA has been around for coming up on 60 years. If you support that in any way, then you really have no standing to complain about rigged testing and that sort of thing. In for a penny, in for a pound.

    On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Hibernian, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    “On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes.”

    Rumor has it he has removed all mention of the extreme anti-abortion position he had adopted for the primary from his website. Probably a good idea but not an example of standing on principle.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @James B. Shearer

    Re: that rumor, I don't follow Blake Master - well I don't "FOLLOW" anybody, but do you know if he had his anti-abortion statements up before the SCROTUS decision and took them down afterwards? That'd be a different story, as, I would hope he'd understand, at this point it ought to be an Arizona issue, and he is running for the US Senate, who should stay TF out of it.

  38. @Peter Johnson
    "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." By creating this false narrative around racial test score differences, the US establishment has inadvertantly created a gigantic web of lies and fantasies that stretches into very many corners of public life.

    Replies: @bomag, @LP5

    Peter Johnson writes:

    By creating this false narrative around racial test score differences, the US establishment has inadvertantly created a gigantic web of lies and fantasies that stretches into very many corners of public life.

    There was nothing inadvertent about it. Intentionality shows up in the darnedest places.

  39. McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home and have more verbal parental-child interaction, using a larger vocabulary, will eliminate the gap. In other words, when black parents turn white and have white kids, the black-white gap will disappear.

    McWhorter is doing his part. Like pretty much every negro “conservative”, he is married to a Mudsharkus Caucasius.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @AceDeuce

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McWhorter#Personal_life


    McWhorter has two daughters. He separated from his wife in 2019.[27] He plays the piano and has appeared in musical theater productions.[28]
     

    Don't let political differences ruin your love life | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt-nlr_RM1o
    Mar 23, 2021
  40. @Henry Canaday
    Well, if you remember that Buffalo plane crash where the pilot and co-pilot, chatting away, did not notice ice building up on the wing, and the pilot forgot how to pull out of the resulting stall, you will recall that the boy pilot failed his practical test twice before passing and the girl co-pilot failed hers once before passing. So I say, put the idiots in social work, not cockpits.

    Replies: @Jack D, @James B. Shearer

    “…did not notice ice building up on the wing, and the pilot forgot how to pull out of the resulting stall ..”

    Actually a little more complicated than that. They were worried about icing and set the stall warning to go off at a higher speed than normal. In the event while there was some icing it wasn’t having much effect on plane’s performance. When the stall warning went off the plane was not actually in or near a stall. But the male pilot reacted by pulling up (basically the opposite of what you are supposed to do). This did stall the plane. An automatic system tried to push the nose down but the pilot overrode it and continued to pull up quickly crashing the plane. The much younger female pilot was largely a bystander but didn’t help any. Before the stall warning went off as pilot not flying she was supposed to be monitoring the air speed as they prepared to land. If she had been she would have seen the air speed was dropping towards where the stall warning would go off and could have warned “air speed”. If the male pilot had reacted correctly by increasing air speed this would have probably avoided trouble.

    The male pilot’s actions are hard to understand. Stall recovery is really basic airmanship. But for some reason he seems to have been in a blind panic and reacted instinctively. And when you are low like they were you only have a few seconds to come to your senses.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @James B. Shearer


    Actually a little more complicated than that.
     
    There's also a little more to and than that, James. First off, no plane that I've ever heard of has a stall detection system that can be "set" by pilots. The problem in icing is that the plane can stall at a lower angle of attack* than it would normally.

    When the stall warning went off the plane was not actually in or near a stall.
     
    The stall warning should go off at something like 1.08 x stall speed at current AOA. If the initial stall warning (stick shaker) did go off, they were right to be worried.

    I read, that the Captain was worried about a tail stall, whether he should have been or not. A tail stall would result in a severe pitch down. That was not the case, though. I don't believe he did the right thing in recovery - but the training departments had something to do with this, I can tell you.

    .

    * For unaccelerated flight, that would means a lower speed.
    , @Henry Canaday
    @James B. Shearer

    Thanks for clarification.

  41. @Jack D
    @Henry Canaday

    The Big Law law firm that I once worked at fired everyone who did not pass the bar exam on the first try one year. The backstory was that a recession had hit and they were looking for excuses to get rid of people but it's probably not a bad notion. If you look at politicians who did not pass the bar exam on their first try they are not a intellectually promising bunch. Of course nowadays this would be racis' fo' sure.

    Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can't pass on your first try maybe there shouldn't be a 2nd try and you should do something else - be a cargo pilot or do ATC or something.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Etruscan Film Star

    “Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can’t pass on your first try maybe there shouldn’t be a 2nd try and you should do something else ..”

    This might have an unintended effect of reducing standards if examiners started passing marginal candidates instead of washing them out forever.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @James B. Shearer

    There are ways around this - if an examiner's pass rate is out of line or creeps up, put him under scrutiny. Have exams taped and instrumented and review the tapes afterward. Etc.

    TBH, commercial aviation safety seems to be one nut that we have cracked pretty well in this country. Commercial air crashes are much rarer than they once were - fatal incidents involving scheduled air carriers are vanishingly rare, especially not of the everyone on board dies type (there has been a couple of freak incidents involving 1 person getting sucked out due to uncontained engine failure). The Colgin crash was a dozen years ago and there have not been many since. It will be "interesting" to see if DIEversity causes this to creep up but so far so good.

    Replies: @Technite78

  42. @Arclight
    A good demonstration of just how dumbed down our society has gotten. The outrage is not that unqualified aspiring social workers eventually get jobs even after bombing the licensing test multiple times, it's aimed at the witchcraft that prevents them from passing at the same rates as whites and Asians, although the exact mechanism of the voodoo cannot be determined.

    That said, I am not sure social workers are able to accomplish much with their clients no matter how smart or talented they are. One thing that I didn't see mentioned in the recent news associated with Biden's cancellation of student debt is any mention of a) the degrees achieved or pursued most commonly associated with large or long term debt or b) what schools have disproportionately high levels of former students that cannot get ahead on paying off their loans. There was a lot of wailing that blacks are disproportionately affected by student debt, but no one seems eager to look into what they are trying to get degrees in or from where.

    Replies: @Rob Lee

    Well it would have to be Ethnic Studies… I don’t think they were indebted to their medical or math degrees.

  43. @International Jew
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I suspect the Asians who go into social work are not the sharpest Asians. Of course white social workers aren't all that either, but I think they're less mediocre as whites go.

    Replies: @Anon, @Hibernian, @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    Probably heavily other than Chinese or Japanese and very heavily female, more so than the social work “profession” as a whole.

  44. @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't care how smart social workers are. In general, government bureaucracies get dumber employees than those who work in private business. It's been that way in our history, very much contrary to the history of the Mandarins in government in Chinese history. (Just being able to read and write in that language is big freaking deal.)

    I like our way better - if you're gonna have people laying down lots of rules on us, better it be people who really can't understand it all.

    If you're complaining about the unfairness of it all, well, AA has been around for coming up on 60 years. If you support that in any way, then you really have no standing to complain about rigged testing and that sort of thing. In for a penny, in for a pound.

    On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Hibernian, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    I like our way better – if you’re gonna have people laying down lots of rules on us, better it be people who really can’t understand it all.

    Certainly not good for the EPA and OSHA.

  45. @watson79
    I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say. Regarding Social Workers (SW) and whites, I've observed the SW attract two types of whites: 1 the genuinely dim. 2 smart but lazy who thought an undemanding govt job would suit them.

    Bad news for type 2. In my state, SWs are hit with huge caseloads of seriously broken people. For this reason, the type 2 (smart but lazy) whites soon bail.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @ScarletNumber, @Ralph L

    Like public defenders, true believing idealists and those who can’t get a job elsewhwere. More of the latter than the former.

  46. The former director of social work at the girlfriend’s hospital, the daughter of a wealthy investment banker, flunked the SW exam SIX times before finally passing. Jewish girls punch way above their weight in social work; the GF estimates that about a third of their social workers are Jews. They are dependable Democrats, and they bug the nurses about whatever the latest liberal line coming down from their bosses. There was a photo published on the front page of a Boston daily of “medical staff” at the hospital protesting during the Fentanyl Floyd era. A quick evaluation of the protestors showed no medical staff, just social workers.

    The social workers resent the Hell out of the nurses’ salaries, as almost all of them have “advanced” degrees while nurses mostly have just a BS. The aforementioned director of SW had a Master’s. WTF do they learn in 8 years of graduate school?

    According to the GF, the guys in social work, an infinitesimal number, make the women look like Rhodes scholars. She says they are the most useless people at the hospital.

    At the end of the day, the job is a sinecure.

    I think a lot of current graduates, used to mailing it in at school, are taken by surprise by the professional certification exams they have to pass. The girlfriend’s cousin’s daughter graduated from a decent nursing program in June, but she flunked her first effort at the nursing exam, as did her two college friends. She complained to us that the test was unfair. The girlfriend asked if she took the prep course and test. Nope. So, the girlfriend said, it’s time to prep for your future, the nursing exam, and leave your past, tequila shots and long party weekends, behind.

    Tough love.

    • Thanks: Curle, Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Brutusale

    Might be a keeper.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Brutusale


    According to the GF, the guys in social work, an infinitesimal number, make the women look like Rhodes scholars. She says they are the most useless people at the hospital.
     
    This is similar to men who work in special education. They are so rare that they are subconsciously held to a lower standard by others as to not drive them away.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

  47. The 84 percent caught my eye because it has meaning in statistics,

    What is it about the number 84 percent that makes it have meaning in statistics?

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Anonymous

    For once, the Question Troll poses a pertinent question!

  48. @Redneck farmer
    The only social workers society needs are cops, prison guards, mental hospital employees, and executioners.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @guest007

    A joke heard from the Cook County Sherriff is that she ran the largest mental health facility in Illinois. However, treating mental health issues with jail is very expensive and not effective at all. There are only so many spaces in jails and filling up those spaces with the mentally ill (the mad) who commit petty crimes means fewer spaces for harden criminals (the bad).

  49. @Brutusale
    The former director of social work at the girlfriend's hospital, the daughter of a wealthy investment banker, flunked the SW exam SIX times before finally passing. Jewish girls punch way above their weight in social work; the GF estimates that about a third of their social workers are Jews. They are dependable Democrats, and they bug the nurses about whatever the latest liberal line coming down from their bosses. There was a photo published on the front page of a Boston daily of "medical staff" at the hospital protesting during the Fentanyl Floyd era. A quick evaluation of the protestors showed no medical staff, just social workers.

    The social workers resent the Hell out of the nurses' salaries, as almost all of them have "advanced" degrees while nurses mostly have just a BS. The aforementioned director of SW had a Master's. WTF do they learn in 8 years of graduate school?

    According to the GF, the guys in social work, an infinitesimal number, make the women look like Rhodes scholars. She says they are the most useless people at the hospital.

    At the end of the day, the job is a sinecure.

    I think a lot of current graduates, used to mailing it in at school, are taken by surprise by the professional certification exams they have to pass. The girlfriend's cousin's daughter graduated from a decent nursing program in June, but she flunked her first effort at the nursing exam, as did her two college friends. She complained to us that the test was unfair. The girlfriend asked if she took the prep course and test. Nope. So, the girlfriend said, it's time to prep for your future, the nursing exam, and leave your past, tequila shots and long party weekends, behind.

    Tough love.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @ScarletNumber

    Might be a keeper.

  50. @The Alarmist
    Certification is so Twentieth Century. In our brave new world, people should be free to be what they want to be.

    Since most doctors merely follow guidelines, why do we bother to certify them. Social work is more art than science ... when was the last time anyone applied objective standards to the fine arts, much less the social arts masquerading as the social sciences?

    Witch doctors and amateur social workers will certainly be able to compete on price with certified doctors and social workers carrying six-figure (remaining) student loan debt from the Ivies. We’ll be free to choose among those who bother to voluntarily certify versus those who can’t or won’t.

    The poor may suffer in cases requiring medical care ... then again, COVID demonstrated that too many doctors are rule-following automatons who can easily be replaced with cheaper unskilled labour. As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Anonymous, @Jean_deValette, @SaneClownPosse

    You joke, but consider that many, many potential doctors were unfairly barred from practicing medicine thanks to draconian licensing and rationing rules drafted not too long ago.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Anonymous

    Reigious ethnic quotas for getting into medical scjool: Very bad.

    High standards for graduates who want to practice: Absolutely necessary.

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @Anonymous


    You joke, but consider that many, many potential doctors were unfairly barred from practicing medicine thanks to draconian licensing and rationing rules drafted not too long ago.
     
    "Unfairly"?! "Draconian"?!
    You need to back up your assertions, Double-Anonymous 248.
  51. @watson79
    I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say. Regarding Social Workers (SW) and whites, I've observed the SW attract two types of whites: 1 the genuinely dim. 2 smart but lazy who thought an undemanding govt job would suit them.

    Bad news for type 2. In my state, SWs are hit with huge caseloads of seriously broken people. For this reason, the type 2 (smart but lazy) whites soon bail.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @ScarletNumber, @Ralph L

    I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say.

    Yes, most of the popular bloggers ran out of steam long ago, c.f. HalfSigma, who has been floundering as Lion of the Blogosphere for many years now. His last post was September 12, 2021.

    I’ve observed the SW attract two types of whites

    The third type is the general idealistic do-gooder. I wouldn’t classify them as lazy per se, but they seem to not have great understanding of where money comes from and why their jobs don’t pay very well even though they are “important”

    • Replies: @Curle
    @ScarletNumber

    Lion got mad at the anti-vax crowd so he quit. Was probably also concerned for his identity.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    , @MEH 0910
    @ScarletNumber


    Yes, most of the popular bloggers ran out of steam long ago, c.f. HalfSigma, who has been floundering as Lion of the Blogosphere for many years now. His last post was September 12, 2021.
     
    https://twitter.com/SimonKoeppel/status/1566852261921394688
  52. There is nothing in it for the Licensing Board(s) to enforce the current standard.

    There are fees for application, workbooks and study materials, examination, annual renewal, etc. Hiring agencies reimburse, so the cost is built into bureaucracy. There is money to be made! The more applicants pass, the more fees collected.

    Years ago there was a professional organization certifying Project Managers. Long story short, an 80% correct rate was required, then 70%, then 60% and it sits at 50% now. In the ’90s, it was aerospace engineers and civil engineers taking and passing the test. Today, it is Closet Organizers and Jungle Gym installers. The pass rate is now rumored to be 100%, but it is unpublished and impossible to obtain. Lots more non-BIPOCs now, than in the ’90s.

  53. @Brutusale
    The former director of social work at the girlfriend's hospital, the daughter of a wealthy investment banker, flunked the SW exam SIX times before finally passing. Jewish girls punch way above their weight in social work; the GF estimates that about a third of their social workers are Jews. They are dependable Democrats, and they bug the nurses about whatever the latest liberal line coming down from their bosses. There was a photo published on the front page of a Boston daily of "medical staff" at the hospital protesting during the Fentanyl Floyd era. A quick evaluation of the protestors showed no medical staff, just social workers.

    The social workers resent the Hell out of the nurses' salaries, as almost all of them have "advanced" degrees while nurses mostly have just a BS. The aforementioned director of SW had a Master's. WTF do they learn in 8 years of graduate school?

    According to the GF, the guys in social work, an infinitesimal number, make the women look like Rhodes scholars. She says they are the most useless people at the hospital.

    At the end of the day, the job is a sinecure.

    I think a lot of current graduates, used to mailing it in at school, are taken by surprise by the professional certification exams they have to pass. The girlfriend's cousin's daughter graduated from a decent nursing program in June, but she flunked her first effort at the nursing exam, as did her two college friends. She complained to us that the test was unfair. The girlfriend asked if she took the prep course and test. Nope. So, the girlfriend said, it's time to prep for your future, the nursing exam, and leave your past, tequila shots and long party weekends, behind.

    Tough love.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @ScarletNumber

    According to the GF, the guys in social work, an infinitesimal number, make the women look like Rhodes scholars. She says they are the most useless people at the hospital.

    This is similar to men who work in special education. They are so rare that they are subconsciously held to a lower standard by others as to not drive them away.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @ScarletNumber

    Ron Jeremy was a Special Education teacher before becoming a porn star.

  54. @The Alarmist
    Certification is so Twentieth Century. In our brave new world, people should be free to be what they want to be.

    Since most doctors merely follow guidelines, why do we bother to certify them. Social work is more art than science ... when was the last time anyone applied objective standards to the fine arts, much less the social arts masquerading as the social sciences?

    Witch doctors and amateur social workers will certainly be able to compete on price with certified doctors and social workers carrying six-figure (remaining) student loan debt from the Ivies. We’ll be free to choose among those who bother to voluntarily certify versus those who can’t or won’t.

    The poor may suffer in cases requiring medical care ... then again, COVID demonstrated that too many doctors are rule-following automatons who can easily be replaced with cheaper unskilled labour. As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Anonymous, @Jean_deValette, @SaneClownPosse

    Race relations will never improve and may get worse, just so long as liberals refuse to accept the evidence for mean IQ varying between the respective races and blame the results of these differences on ‘racial discrimination’.

    This can only feed Blacks in particular with resentment and hostility, leading to actual violence against whites who are the hated ‘oppressors”.

  55. As this post seems somewhat appropriate for it, I’d like to thank Steve and the commenters on this Labor Day for their work to make this blog an enjoyable place to be.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Kylie
  56. @nebulafox
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Creating a situation where the only people who go into teaching are those with education degrees rather than degrees in their subject is not ideal.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Statistics is one of those subjects we don’t spend enough time and effort on teaching our young people. This and financial math, plus basic civics, would go a long way toward returning our society to something resembling Western Civilization.

    We could incorporate these subjects into our curricula, helping Americans of every background to better understand the world they live in. They could then better cooperate and value each other’s strengths, working together with mutual respect.

    Nah.

  57. @Steve Sailer
    @Mark in BC

    That's what they did with the Chicago fireman's hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AnotherDad, @Anon

    What percentage of blacks have an IQ that is 75 or lower?

    • Replies: @Calvin Hobbes
    @JimDandy


    What percentage of blacks have an IQ that is 75 or lower?
     
    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 85 and SD 15, that’s 2/3 of an SD below the mean, so very close to 25%.

    https://z-scoretable.com/

    Replies: @JimDandy

    , @Polistra
    @JimDandy

    On Martha's Vineyard, 50%
    Where I live, 99%

  58. This article is about a social work licensing examination. Unfortunately, the most interesting part of this article is missing: the test itself. Why is the test not reproduced, or even excerpted, in this news article? Readers would then get a clearer idea of what is being tested for, and whether they could pass the test themselves. Is there some legal reason why the test itself goes unreported?

  59. When social workers screw up their lives, who do they call?

    • LOL: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Known Fact

    Cops.

  60. Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do for which you would need them to pass a certification test? It is obvious that a neurosurgeon needs to demonstrate skills and knowledge in order to leave you still able to play the piano after your brain surgery.
    However if you simply made anyone a social worker who wants to be one, would there be any measurable change in the outcomes?

    • Agree: Renard
    • LOL: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Alfa158


    Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do
     
    Watch "Precious".
    , @kaganovitch
    @Alfa158

    Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do for which you would need them to pass a certification test?

    For one thing they man (or more likely woman) Child Protective Services. So they are empowered to take one's children away. On the other hand I'm not sure that higher IQ makes them more just than common sense, perhaps the opposite.

    , @Tom F.
    @Alfa158

    Certification is from each State. There is a background check. Making sure pedos, elder-abusers, forgers, those who don't recognize basic medical issues like cigarette burns, ringworm, dementia, jaundice, periodontal disease, etc. are screened out. But it is for legal liability.

    The State pays, when the case goes off the rails. Was that churlish of me to point it out? Very well, I'm churlish!

    Replies: @Hibernian

  61. @Jim Don Bob
    @The Alarmist


    As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.
     
    I am having trouble imagining what kind of questions are on a social worker certification test, and how dumb you would have to be not to know the answers.

    Replies: @Occasional lurker

    As a social worker, you have to be well versed in law and administrative practice regarding social benefits of diverse kinds as well as (for example) what the legal position is regarding a child that you suspect is maltreated by its parents, under what conditions may you or must you intervene, what options are there? I would not expect to be able to pass a social worker licensing exam, even though I am probably two standard deviations above the typical social worker in IQ.

    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Occasional lurker

    I think it would be far easier for a STEM type to pass the social work exam with study than for a humanities type to pass the Professional Engineer exam in the same way.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    , @The Problem with Midway
    @Occasional lurker

    Two standard deviations above the typical social worker? You have an IQ of 115?

  62. @The Alarmist
    Certification is so Twentieth Century. In our brave new world, people should be free to be what they want to be.

    Since most doctors merely follow guidelines, why do we bother to certify them. Social work is more art than science ... when was the last time anyone applied objective standards to the fine arts, much less the social arts masquerading as the social sciences?

    Witch doctors and amateur social workers will certainly be able to compete on price with certified doctors and social workers carrying six-figure (remaining) student loan debt from the Ivies. We’ll be free to choose among those who bother to voluntarily certify versus those who can’t or won’t.

    The poor may suffer in cases requiring medical care ... then again, COVID demonstrated that too many doctors are rule-following automatons who can easily be replaced with cheaper unskilled labour. As for the value add of certified social workers, I doubt anyone will notice any difference.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Anonymous, @Jean_deValette, @SaneClownPosse

    “The poor may suffer in cases requiring medical care … then again, COVID demonstrated that too many doctors are rule-following automatons who can easily be replaced with cheaper unskilled labour.”

    This replacement happened in USA with the passage of the Affordable Care Act under Obama.

    Former to ACA, “PCP” stood for “Primary Care Physician”, post-ACA, it stands for “Primary Care Practitioner”, a person that may not be a MD.

    This was how sickcare was made “affordable”, by diluting the provided services.

    A practitioner utilizes a computer program that guides the practitioner through a flow chart of questions to determine a diagnosis. The same system that a call center worker in the third world uses to diagnose a consumer’s issue with a service or product.

    • Thanks: Hibernian, The Alarmist
  63. @Anon
    @International Jew

    The white-Asian gap in the social work exam is similar to the gap in the bar exam. Maybe Asians in the US just aren't that verbally oriented. I can think of all sorts of explanations why this would be the case.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    The white-Asian gap in the social work exam is similar to the gap in the bar exam.

    Why didn’t you capitalize White?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous

    That's how capitalization works in English - colors aren't generally capitalized, geographic indicators are. I don't capitalize black or white.

    Replies: @Anon

  64. @watson79
    I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say. Regarding Social Workers (SW) and whites, I've observed the SW attract two types of whites: 1 the genuinely dim. 2 smart but lazy who thought an undemanding govt job would suit them.

    Bad news for type 2. In my state, SWs are hit with huge caseloads of seriously broken people. For this reason, the type 2 (smart but lazy) whites soon bail.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @ScarletNumber, @Ralph L

    A former neighbor got a masters of SW online from Liberty U and hated the work. Didn’t like his coworkers or the clients. Before that, he told me he wanted to move to the coast, but it would be underwater in a few years. I managed to resist laughing at him.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Ralph L

    Before that, he told me he wanted to move to the coast, but it would be underwater in a few years.

    OMG, has someone told the Obamas? They recently sunk $12 million into an oceanfront home.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  65. @ScarletNumber
    @watson79


    I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say.
     
    Yes, most of the popular bloggers ran out of steam long ago, c.f. HalfSigma, who has been floundering as Lion of the Blogosphere for many years now. His last post was September 12, 2021.

    I’ve observed the SW attract two types of whites
     
    The third type is the general idealistic do-gooder. I wouldn't classify them as lazy per se, but they seem to not have great understanding of where money comes from and why their jobs don't pay very well even though they are "important"

    Replies: @Curle, @MEH 0910

    Lion got mad at the anti-vax crowd so he quit. Was probably also concerned for his identity.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Curle

    When he first became Lion, he tried to distance himself from his Half Sigma persona by declaring his new blog an HBD-free zone. However, he couldn't help himself and the new blog became just like the old one. Also, while I won't dox him here, he was doxxed when he started to write about Rick Rosner, who is his prototype of how a person who is low-class and high-IQ is in a disadvantageous position in life, as the primary purpose of a high IQ is to get on a good career track. He said


    Rick is an example of how society fails children who are geniuses.…it's sad that instead of becoming a great scientist or business leader he winds up being nothing but a bouncer
     
    https://web.archive.org/web/20070319233454/http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/02/the_rick_rosner.html

    If you click on the above link, you will see our very own prosa123 commenting as Peter.

    By the way, if you were to look at a picture of Half Sigma/Lion of the Blogosphere, you wouldn't be surprised. He looks like a Nazi propaganda poster.

  66. Social work is already a low status/low iq gig. The area that should really concern everyone is nursing. Many states have already abandoned merit-based admissions to nursing programs with regard to blacks and Hispanics. As a nurse, I can tell you that the NCLEX (RN licensure) exam I took over a decade ago was pretty easy. If they make it any easier in order to up the percentage of black nurses, healthcare is in big trouble.

    • Thanks: Polistra
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    This.

    The girlfriend turned 60 in June, and she's weighing the benefits of continuing (years of working hard for shortish money culminating in her current, very lucrative gig) or getting out before the racial silliness gets totally out of hand. When she started this job 14 years ago, she joked that she was the diversity, a North Shore Italian swimming in a sea of Irish women. Today, 7 out of the last 10 departmental hires have been black.

    The perfect example of the New World Order is her immediate "boss", a young black woman who's not even an RN.

    Replies: @Anon

  67. @ThreeCranes
    It is hard to overstate just how Demonic the white race is. Think about it. The people who designed this test had to work hard to pick questions which they knew in advance would be slam dunks for people who differ from the other test takers only in having pale skin. Those questions had also had to be constructed such that they disadvantaged people who differed from their white counterparts only by the amount of melanin in their skin. Again, think about that. How difficult it must have been for those who designed this test to have chosen just those questions which tripped up only the melanin enhanced.

    There is no other possible explanation than that these people are possessed of the Devil. Only the Devil himself could have inspired such wicked determination to have (1) conceived of such a scheme and (2) imbued them with the energy to have relentlessly carried it out.

    The Prophet Elijah Muhammad was right about these white-skinned devils; whereas the black man is noble and capable of self-restraint, the white race's depravity knows no limits.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax

    There’s an episode of the Jeffersons where boy genius Michael is determined to have a below-average IQ based on a test given to him at his school. Naturally, the family is outraged and Michael explains to the family how IQ tests are racially biased against blacks. Smash cut to James and Florida in the school Principal’s office interrogating the Principal with questions like: What does “TCB” stand for? And… What’s Malcolm X’s last name? (and, no, it’s not “Fannon”). Thank you, Norman Lear!

    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=463750025534727&_rdr

    • Replies: @Joe Joe
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    Good Times, not The Jeffersons ;-)

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    This was Good Times, not The Jeffersons. Both shows were Norman Lear productions that were spun off of All in the Family, either indirectly or directly.

    Later on, Diff'rent Strokes also did their Very Special Episode about how the SAT was biased.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    I know the answer to both of those relatively simple "culturally biased" questions.

    , @Truth
    @Malcolm X-Lax


    There’s an episode of the Jeffersons
     

    Smash cut to James and Florida

     

    Im glad there was no "black television" section on that SAT you claim to have aced.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Malcolm X-Lax

  68. @Jack D

    These numbers are grossly disproportionate and demonstrate a failure in the exam’s design,”
     
    Of course, they don't suggest fixing the exam's design, they suggest getting rid of it. That's because they know that it is literally impossible to fix it. Even if the test was entirely given in Spanish and Ebonics and the test questions concerned the relative merits of rappers and various street drugs, white people would STILL outscore others by virtue of their higher IQ, which gives them greater capacity to memorize stuff and recall and process it quickly in a test context. Simply dumbing down the test doesn't work - whites will still pass at a higher rate. (Of course if you set the "pass" level low enough eventually everyone of every race will pass but this kind of defeats the purpose of the test.) Any paper and pencil test is ultimately an IQ test. The whole notion of g is that it is a measure of intellectual horsepower or CPU speed - if you have a fast computer it will solve any problem faster than a slow one.

    McWhorter can be forgiving for assuming that this is all nurture based and if only black people talked more to their kids this could be remedied - everyone knows how famously taciturn black people are. The notion that this is all genetic and is not going away and is never going away as long as different races exist in America and that we have imported (not one but two) huge and permanent underclasses is too horrible to contemplate.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @petit bourgeois

    McWhorter can be forgiv[en] for assuming that this is all nurture based

    Wrong. He is simply lying. He is smart enough to know that Blacks in aggregate are inherently dumber than the rest. One doesn’t get published in the NYT opinion section for being honest about race.

    Cuck “conservative” Whites like to unironically cite McWhorter and Sowell, etc. because they themselves don’t want to admit the truth about inherent racial intelligence gaps.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    Wrong. He is simply lying.
     
    You missed my sarc tag - the jokc about how famously taciturn blacks are.

    Taciturn - a person who is reserved or uncommunicative in speech; saying little. Yup, that's blacks in a nutshell.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  69. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    McWhorter can be forgiv[en] for assuming that this is all nurture based
     
    Wrong. He is simply lying. He is smart enough to know that Blacks in aggregate are inherently dumber than the rest. One doesn’t get published in the NYT opinion section for being honest about race.

    Cuck “conservative” Whites like to unironically cite McWhorter and Sowell, etc. because they themselves don’t want to admit the truth about inherent racial intelligence gaps.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Wrong. He is simply lying.

    You missed my sarc tag – the jokc about how famously taciturn blacks are.

    Taciturn – a person who is reserved or uncommunicative in speech; saying little. Yup, that’s blacks in a nutshell.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    You missed my sarc tag – the joke about how famously taciturn blacks are.
     
    I got that. Everyone knows that everyone knows that Blacks won’t shut up.

    My point is that McWhorter doesn’t get a rhetorical ‘pass’, even if in jest.
  70. @James B. Shearer
    @Jack D

    "Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can’t pass on your first try maybe there shouldn’t be a 2nd try and you should do something else .."

    This might have an unintended effect of reducing standards if examiners started passing marginal candidates instead of washing them out forever.

    Replies: @Jack D

    There are ways around this – if an examiner’s pass rate is out of line or creeps up, put him under scrutiny. Have exams taped and instrumented and review the tapes afterward. Etc.

    TBH, commercial aviation safety seems to be one nut that we have cracked pretty well in this country. Commercial air crashes are much rarer than they once were – fatal incidents involving scheduled air carriers are vanishingly rare, especially not of the everyone on board dies type (there has been a couple of freak incidents involving 1 person getting sucked out due to uncontained engine failure). The Colgin crash was a dozen years ago and there have not been many since. It will be “interesting” to see if DIEversity causes this to creep up but so far so good.

    • Replies: @Technite78
    @Jack D


    TBH, commercial aviation safety seems to be one nut that we have cracked pretty well in this country. Commercial air crashes are much rarer than they once were – fatal incidents involving scheduled air carriers are vanishingly rare, especially not of the everyone on board dies type (there has been a couple of freak incidents involving 1 person getting sucked out due to uncontained engine failure). The Colgin crash was a dozen years ago and there have not been many since. It will be “interesting” to see if DIEversity causes this to creep up but so far so good.
     
    In many of the more technically difficult jobs, automated software is quickly replacing the need for highly skilled, repetitive work by experienced workers. Have any of you flown a drone lately? It flies itself... you cannot crash unless you do something silly. The danger will be where new software hasn't been exhaustively tested (which is becoming more difficult as the software becomes more complex). The 737Max MCAS-related crashes, automotive autopilot crashes, etc. are examples of this... when there is heavy reliance on automation as opposed to experience, intelligence, and skill... bugs or deficiencies in software will result in bad outcomes more frequently.

    It's possible that technology will improve fast enough so that the automation-caused accidents will be less numerous than the human-caused accidents that they eliminate...

    Replies: @Jack D

  71. @Jack D
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    Wrong. He is simply lying.
     
    You missed my sarc tag - the jokc about how famously taciturn blacks are.

    Taciturn - a person who is reserved or uncommunicative in speech; saying little. Yup, that's blacks in a nutshell.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    You missed my sarc tag – the joke about how famously taciturn blacks are.

    I got that. Everyone knows that everyone knows that Blacks won’t shut up.

    My point is that McWhorter doesn’t get a rhetorical ‘pass’, even if in jest.

  72. @Steve Sailer
    @Mark in BC

    That's what they did with the Chicago fireman's hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AnotherDad, @Anon

    That’s what they did with the Chicago fireman’s hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.

    Said it before:

    — The push toward political hiring–patronage–is very strong in democracies. Racial/ethnic groups are going to want “their cut”. (And some jobs–particularly policing–are very political. Policing is a job where one ethnicity policing others can be fraught.)

    — If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then “affirmative action” or “disparate impact” messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @AnotherDad


    Civil Rights V. Civil Service
    STEVE SAILER • JULY 12, 2009

    [...]
    Look, I think a reasonable argument could be asserted that police jobs are so inherently political (as the etymological roots suggest) in terms of interviewing suspects and witnesses and the like that a racial quota system might make, sometimes, police departments more effective. That’s a much, much harder argument to make plausible for fire departments, however, since fires don’t have race.

    Fire departments, like most government agencies, are monopolies, so they aren’t inherently incentivized by market competition to hire the most effective managers and employees. Thus, strict civil service rules have been developed to produce objective competition for jobs. The diversicrats like Guinier and Sotomayor hate blind-graded competitions, precisely because they are honest and fair.
     

    Vulcan Society V. Fire Department of New York
    STEVE SAILER • JULY 27, 2009

    [...]
    Then the judge says:

    This evidence shows that the cognitive abilities intended to be tested on Exams 7029 and 2043 were not the most important cognitive abilities for the job of firefighter.
     
    But, Judge G., you just complained that the test tested g, the general cognitive ability, rather than various hypothesized specific abilities. Tautologically speaking, isn’t general cognitive ability the most important cognitive ability?

    Interestingly, the use of a cutoff score is very problematic, even when the cutoff is based on the number of firefighters required (I should say, especially when the cutoff is based on the number of firefighters required). See p. 78. I think the obvious takeaway is that the fire department should consider many applicants more than it needs, and hire on a racially balanced basis from that larger pool.
     
    In other words, do what Chicago is doing: hire firefighters largely at random.

    We’d be better off with strict racial quotas than with that.
     

    Replies: @Hibernian

    , @Anon
    @AnotherDad


    — If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then “affirmative action” or “disparate impact” messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.
     
    Jews don’t want a quota system because the Jewish quota would be relatively small. Therefore, the United States does not have a quota system.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @AnotherDad

  73. @AceDeuce

    McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home and have more verbal parental-child interaction, using a larger vocabulary, will eliminate the gap. In other words, when black parents turn white and have white kids, the black-white gap will disappear.
     
    McWhorter is doing his part. Like pretty much every negro "conservative", he is married to a Mudsharkus Caucasius.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McWhorter#Personal_life

    McWhorter has two daughters. He separated from his wife in 2019.[28]

    [MORE]

    Don’t let political differences ruin your love life | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show

    Mar 23, 2021

  74. @Alfa158
    Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do for which you would need them to pass a certification test? It is obvious that a neurosurgeon needs to demonstrate skills and knowledge in order to leave you still able to play the piano after your brain surgery.
    However if you simply made anyone a social worker who wants to be one, would there be any measurable change in the outcomes?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @kaganovitch, @Tom F.

    Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do

    Watch “Precious”.

  75. @AnotherDad
    @Steve Sailer


    That’s what they did with the Chicago fireman’s hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.
     
    Said it before:

    -- The push toward political hiring--patronage--is very strong in democracies. Racial/ethnic groups are going to want "their cut". (And some jobs--particularly policing--are very political. Policing is a job where one ethnicity policing others can be fraught.)

    -- If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then "affirmative action" or "disparate impact" messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Anon

    Civil Rights V. Civil Service
    STEVE SAILER • JULY 12, 2009

    […]
    Look, I think a reasonable argument could be asserted that police jobs are so inherently political (as the etymological roots suggest) in terms of interviewing suspects and witnesses and the like that a racial quota system might make, sometimes, police departments more effective. That’s a much, much harder argument to make plausible for fire departments, however, since fires don’t have race.

    Fire departments, like most government agencies, are monopolies, so they aren’t inherently incentivized by market competition to hire the most effective managers and employees. Thus, strict civil service rules have been developed to produce objective competition for jobs. The diversicrats like Guinier and Sotomayor hate blind-graded competitions, precisely because they are honest and fair.

    Vulcan Society V. Fire Department of New York
    STEVE SAILER • JULY 27, 2009

    […]
    Then the judge says:

    This evidence shows that the cognitive abilities intended to be tested on Exams 7029 and 2043 were not the most important cognitive abilities for the job of firefighter.

    But, Judge G., you just complained that the test tested g, the general cognitive ability, rather than various hypothesized specific abilities. Tautologically speaking, isn’t general cognitive ability the most important cognitive ability?

    Interestingly, the use of a cutoff score is very problematic, even when the cutoff is based on the number of firefighters required (I should say, especially when the cutoff is based on the number of firefighters required). See p. 78. I think the obvious takeaway is that the fire department should consider many applicants more than it needs, and hire on a racially balanced basis from that larger pool.

    In other words, do what Chicago is doing: hire firefighters largely at random.

    We’d be better off with strict racial quotas than with that.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @MEH 0910


    ...fires don’t have race.
     
    I've just been reading the Vietnam era "Report from Engine Co.82" by Dennis Smith. A big part of it is showing how firemen have to deal with the same cultural issues as policemen. Not to say that cultural sensitivity should outweigh physical strength and fire science knowledge, or be the pretext or a quota/patronage hiring system.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  76. There are still White people going into social work? I’m I wrong when I think most social workers come from the left side of the political spectrum? I figured woke shame would move White progressives to step aside and make way for people of color. Plus it would solve the test gap as well, when White’s no longer take the exam.

  77. @Anymike
    Wait a minute. Didn't a higher percentage of women than men pass the test in every group? Isn't that what's important? How come everyone's missing the big takeaway?

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Renard

    Because that’s a desired result. The goal is to get URMs to outperform whites and asians, however we have to do it. Then we will finally achieve “equity”.

    Of course, no remotely competent test will do this. So first they’ll just add 50 points to URM scores. Then they’ll just scrap the test entirely. Tests are racist, just like other white supremacist concepts, such as competency.

  78. @James B. Shearer
    @Henry Canaday

    "...did not notice ice building up on the wing, and the pilot forgot how to pull out of the resulting stall .."

    Actually a little more complicated than that. They were worried about icing and set the stall warning to go off at a higher speed than normal. In the event while there was some icing it wasn't having much effect on plane's performance. When the stall warning went off the plane was not actually in or near a stall. But the male pilot reacted by pulling up (basically the opposite of what you are supposed to do). This did stall the plane. An automatic system tried to push the nose down but the pilot overrode it and continued to pull up quickly crashing the plane. The much younger female pilot was largely a bystander but didn't help any. Before the stall warning went off as pilot not flying she was supposed to be monitoring the air speed as they prepared to land. If she had been she would have seen the air speed was dropping towards where the stall warning would go off and could have warned "air speed". If the male pilot had reacted correctly by increasing air speed this would have probably avoided trouble.

    The male pilot's actions are hard to understand. Stall recovery is really basic airmanship. But for some reason he seems to have been in a blind panic and reacted instinctively. And when you are low like they were you only have a few seconds to come to your senses.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Henry Canaday

    Actually a little more complicated than that.

    There’s also a little more to and than that, James. First off, no plane that I’ve ever heard of has a stall detection system that can be “set” by pilots. The problem in icing is that the plane can stall at a lower angle of attack* than it would normally.

    When the stall warning went off the plane was not actually in or near a stall.

    The stall warning should go off at something like 1.08 x stall speed at current AOA. If the initial stall warning (stick shaker) did go off, they were right to be worried.

    I read, that the Captain was worried about a tail stall, whether he should have been or not. A tail stall would result in a severe pitch down. That was not the case, though. I don’t believe he did the right thing in recovery – but the training departments had something to do with this, I can tell you.

    .

    * For unaccelerated flight, that would means a lower speed.

  79. @Nervous in Stalingrad

    McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home
     
    Not long ago, we had the tragedy of the unbanked. Are we now faced with the unbooked?

    If only there were a place where people, black or white, could go to read and borrow books to take home and read free of charge. Wouldn't a place like that solve the shortage of reading material and eliminate the problem of "book deserts" in black homes?

    Someday, perhaps, we may see the advent of such places. Until then, we will just have to continue to sit on our hands and bemoan the fact that owning books is #8,737 on the list of manifestations of White Supremacy.

    (Seriously, though: I read the NYT article, and John McWhorter does not give a single reason as to why “the language socialization of the Trackton child" is “almost book-free."

    Is it possible the explanation is as simple as blacks simply do not value books?

    I cannot think why any household that wants books in 2022 is unable to afford them at a time when books are cheaper and more plentiful than they have ever been. Am I missing something?)

    Replies: @Renard, @Dan Kurt

    Is it possible the explanation is as simple as blacks simply do not value books?

    Books, and everything they represent.

  80. @James B. Shearer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    "On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes."

    Rumor has it he has removed all mention of the extreme anti-abortion position he had adopted for the primary from his website. Probably a good idea but not an example of standing on principle.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Re: that rumor, I don’t follow Blake Master – well I don’t “FOLLOW” anybody, but do you know if he had his anti-abortion statements up before the SCROTUS decision and took them down afterwards? That’d be a different story, as, I would hope he’d understand, at this point it ought to be an Arizona issue, and he is running for the US Senate, who should stay TF out of it.

  81. @Alfa158
    Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do for which you would need them to pass a certification test? It is obvious that a neurosurgeon needs to demonstrate skills and knowledge in order to leave you still able to play the piano after your brain surgery.
    However if you simply made anyone a social worker who wants to be one, would there be any measurable change in the outcomes?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @kaganovitch, @Tom F.

    Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do for which you would need them to pass a certification test?

    For one thing they man (or more likely woman) Child Protective Services. So they are empowered to take one’s children away. On the other hand I’m not sure that higher IQ makes them more just than common sense, perhaps the opposite.

  82. Anon[233] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    @Steve Sailer


    That’s what they did with the Chicago fireman’s hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.
     
    Said it before:

    -- The push toward political hiring--patronage--is very strong in democracies. Racial/ethnic groups are going to want "their cut". (And some jobs--particularly policing--are very political. Policing is a job where one ethnicity policing others can be fraught.)

    -- If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then "affirmative action" or "disparate impact" messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Anon

    — If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then “affirmative action” or “disparate impact” messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.

    Jews don’t want a quota system because the Jewish quota would be relatively small. Therefore, the United States does not have a quota system.

    • Replies: @Recently Based
    @Anon

    The generalized form of this is the key problem with quotas (beyond, you know, the whole having people doing important jobs that are shittier at them thing).

    How do you define the reference class for the quotas? Blacks? American descendants of slaves? All whites? Jewish whites vs. gentile whites? Catholic white gentiles vs Protestant white gentiles? Irish Catholic white gentiles vs. Italian Catholic white gentiles? etc, etc, etc

    , @AnotherDad
    @Anon



    — If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then “affirmative action” or “disparate impact” messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.
     
    Jews don’t want a quota system because the Jewish quota would be relatively small. Therefore, the United States does not have a quota system.
     
    Agree. I think this is a large part of the reason the American legal system ended up forcing racial patronage hiring into "goals and timelines" and "affirmative action" and "disparate impact".

    Just saying "40% of the people in town (and most of the criminals) are black. So we want to make sure the police aren't all white and look like 'the man'. So we want to make sure the cops are at least 1/3 black" brings in the concept of the dreaded "quota".

    And Jews are well aware that if they are wildly overrepresented across pretty much elite occupations, especially those that are verbal and political. If the idea of "looks like America" ever lined up with "quota" in any way that included Jews ... there would be ... trouble.

    But Jews must push minoritarianism, "diversity!" and love sticking it to white gentiles. So we've got the shittiest imaginable political hiring--racial patronage system--that is infused with lying and coughs up crap really destructive nonsense like "disparate impact".
  83. Why would social workers need a test? Volunteers can do the job.

  84. @Alfa158
    Can someone clarify what exactly social workers do for which you would need them to pass a certification test? It is obvious that a neurosurgeon needs to demonstrate skills and knowledge in order to leave you still able to play the piano after your brain surgery.
    However if you simply made anyone a social worker who wants to be one, would there be any measurable change in the outcomes?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @kaganovitch, @Tom F.

    Certification is from each State. There is a background check. Making sure pedos, elder-abusers, forgers, those who don’t recognize basic medical issues like cigarette burns, ringworm, dementia, jaundice, periodontal disease, etc. are screened out. But it is for legal liability.

    The State pays, when the case goes off the rails. Was that churlish of me to point it out? Very well, I’m churlish!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Tom F.


    Certification is from each State. There is a background check. Making sure pedos, elder-abusers, forgers, those who don’t recognize basic medical issues like cigarette burns, ringworm, dementia, jaundice, periodontal disease, etc. are screened out. But it is for legal liability.
     
    The State of Illinois does such a good job of this that a mental health facility way Downstate has the problem of "Mental Health Technicians" beating up on the patients.

    https://www.wsiltv.com/news/crime/investigations-at-choate-mental-health-developmental-center-lead-to-five-arrests/article_cebc539c-1cc2-574c-9036-301ea97c4f25.html

    Replies: @Tom F.

  85. @JimDandy
    @Steve Sailer

    What percentage of blacks have an IQ that is 75 or lower?

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Polistra

    What percentage of blacks have an IQ that is 75 or lower?

    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 85 and SD 15, that’s 2/3 of an SD below the mean, so very close to 25%.

    https://z-scoretable.com/

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Calvin Hobbes

    Thank you and goddamned you, you unabashed racist who says that 1 out of 4 African Americans is basically retarded.

  86. @Joe8056
    I thought I was the only one who knew about this guy. I read his stuff over 20 years ago that explained why all the smartest and stupidest people were male.

    Replies: @Alden

    I used to read his work in affirmative action. Because affirmative action is my greatest concern.

    Affirmative action affects every White in America. Most Whites are never victims of black crime. And many Whites manage to avoid black unpleasantness altogether. Either because of location or money. The middle aged White American women who run the nursing associations and unions are constantly carrying on about how non White nurses fail the bigoted licensing exam. Just like middle aged White men did and these Rutgers useful idiots are doing.,

    Destroy the job prospects of the younger generation of Whites. And then complain they are still living with 3 roommates or at home and working part time no job security last hired first fired at 40

    To the MEN OF UNZ who graduated in 1965 and got a job and were neither outsourced or affirmative actioned until retirement. Go ahead and jump in with blathering about SATs GPAs employment aptitude and competency tests. Go right ahead and live in your ignorant bubble.

    It’s 2022, not 1967 the last year that employers and occupational licensers were allowed to consider aptitude and competency in hiring and granting licenses.

    The only license not affirmative actioned is the IBEW electricians license. Because even the most viciously anti White judges don’t want their courthouses to go up in flames because of affirmative action wiring.

    • Replies: @Joe8056
    @Alden

    I graduated in 2001 and I got outsourced in 2019 by an Indian who was a ludicrous ceo. Complete idiot. It's like that culture has been saving up idiots for generations. They can't adapt. They're briefly fancied but aren't the solution to anything.

    I had to get another job. I got one and it was way better than the corporate hell I was kicked out of.

    , @Anonymous
    @Alden


    I used to read his work in affirmative action. Because affirmative action is my greatest concern.
     
    Immigration should be your greatest concern. Mexicans and other Hispanics can compete with Whites in many unskilled jobs and in many trades. China, Korea, India, and Pakistan produce people who can score well on STEM and medical aptitude tests. The Philippines and the Caribbean can produce good nurses, Jews are very good at law and business.

    What occupations are left for Whites?
  87. @Anonymous
    @The Alarmist

    You joke, but consider that many, many potential doctors were unfairly barred from practicing medicine thanks to draconian licensing and rationing rules drafted not too long ago.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Nicholas Stix

    Reigious ethnic quotas for getting into medical scjool: Very bad.

    High standards for graduates who want to practice: Absolutely necessary.

  88. @Occasional lurker
    @Jim Don Bob

    As a social worker, you have to be well versed in law and administrative practice regarding social benefits of diverse kinds as well as (for example) what the legal position is regarding a child that you suspect is maltreated by its parents, under what conditions may you or must you intervene, what options are there? I would not expect to be able to pass a social worker licensing exam, even though I am probably two standard deviations above the typical social worker in IQ.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @The Problem with Midway

    I think it would be far easier for a STEM type to pass the social work exam with study than for a humanities type to pass the Professional Engineer exam in the same way.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Hibernian

    Hibernian wrote to Occasional lurker:


    I think it would be far easier for a STEM type to pass the social work exam with study than for a humanities type to pass the Professional Engineer exam in the same way.
     
    The understatement of the year!

    A friend of mine who is a pharmacist likes to joke about the non-STEM majors who complain about how tough their anthropology class is.

    His suggestion is that they try taking organic chemistry (required for pharmacists, of course).

    Replies: @Old Brown Fool

  89. @MEH 0910
    @AnotherDad


    Civil Rights V. Civil Service
    STEVE SAILER • JULY 12, 2009

    [...]
    Look, I think a reasonable argument could be asserted that police jobs are so inherently political (as the etymological roots suggest) in terms of interviewing suspects and witnesses and the like that a racial quota system might make, sometimes, police departments more effective. That’s a much, much harder argument to make plausible for fire departments, however, since fires don’t have race.

    Fire departments, like most government agencies, are monopolies, so they aren’t inherently incentivized by market competition to hire the most effective managers and employees. Thus, strict civil service rules have been developed to produce objective competition for jobs. The diversicrats like Guinier and Sotomayor hate blind-graded competitions, precisely because they are honest and fair.
     

    Vulcan Society V. Fire Department of New York
    STEVE SAILER • JULY 27, 2009

    [...]
    Then the judge says:

    This evidence shows that the cognitive abilities intended to be tested on Exams 7029 and 2043 were not the most important cognitive abilities for the job of firefighter.
     
    But, Judge G., you just complained that the test tested g, the general cognitive ability, rather than various hypothesized specific abilities. Tautologically speaking, isn’t general cognitive ability the most important cognitive ability?

    Interestingly, the use of a cutoff score is very problematic, even when the cutoff is based on the number of firefighters required (I should say, especially when the cutoff is based on the number of firefighters required). See p. 78. I think the obvious takeaway is that the fire department should consider many applicants more than it needs, and hire on a racially balanced basis from that larger pool.
     
    In other words, do what Chicago is doing: hire firefighters largely at random.

    We’d be better off with strict racial quotas than with that.
     

    Replies: @Hibernian

    …fires don’t have race.

    I’ve just been reading the Vietnam era “Report from Engine Co.82” by Dennis Smith. A big part of it is showing how firemen have to deal with the same cultural issues as policemen. Not to say that cultural sensitivity should outweigh physical strength and fire science knowledge, or be the pretext or a quota/patronage hiring system.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Hibernian


    I’ve just been reading the Vietnam era “Report from Engine Co.82” by Dennis Smith. A big part of it is showing how firemen have to deal with the same cultural issues as policemen. Not to say that cultural sensitivity should outweigh physical strength and fire science knowledge, or be the pretext or a quota/patronage hiring system.
     
    Are you saying that a fire department should reflect the demographics of the community it serves, or not?

    Replies: @Hibernian

  90. @ScarletNumber
    @Brutusale


    According to the GF, the guys in social work, an infinitesimal number, make the women look like Rhodes scholars. She says they are the most useless people at the hospital.
     
    This is similar to men who work in special education. They are so rare that they are subconsciously held to a lower standard by others as to not drive them away.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Ron Jeremy was a Special Education teacher before becoming a porn star.

  91. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hibernian
    @MEH 0910


    ...fires don’t have race.
     
    I've just been reading the Vietnam era "Report from Engine Co.82" by Dennis Smith. A big part of it is showing how firemen have to deal with the same cultural issues as policemen. Not to say that cultural sensitivity should outweigh physical strength and fire science knowledge, or be the pretext or a quota/patronage hiring system.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I’ve just been reading the Vietnam era “Report from Engine Co.82” by Dennis Smith. A big part of it is showing how firemen have to deal with the same cultural issues as policemen. Not to say that cultural sensitivity should outweigh physical strength and fire science knowledge, or be the pretext or a quota/patronage hiring system.

    Are you saying that a fire department should reflect the demographics of the community it serves, or not?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Anonymous

    Please reread my last sentence. Just saying that "Fires have no race." is an oversimplification. Not advocating Irish firemen be limited to Irish neighborhoods, etc.

  92. @ScarletNumber
    @watson79


    I miss La Griffe so much, though he probably said all he could say.
     
    Yes, most of the popular bloggers ran out of steam long ago, c.f. HalfSigma, who has been floundering as Lion of the Blogosphere for many years now. His last post was September 12, 2021.

    I’ve observed the SW attract two types of whites
     
    The third type is the general idealistic do-gooder. I wouldn't classify them as lazy per se, but they seem to not have great understanding of where money comes from and why their jobs don't pay very well even though they are "important"

    Replies: @Curle, @MEH 0910

    Yes, most of the popular bloggers ran out of steam long ago, c.f. HalfSigma, who has been floundering as Lion of the Blogosphere for many years now. His last post was September 12, 2021.

  93. @Malcolm X-Lax
    @ThreeCranes

    There's an episode of the Jeffersons where boy genius Michael is determined to have a below-average IQ based on a test given to him at his school. Naturally, the family is outraged and Michael explains to the family how IQ tests are racially biased against blacks. Smash cut to James and Florida in the school Principal's office interrogating the Principal with questions like: What does "TCB" stand for? And... What's Malcolm X's last name? (and, no, it's not "Fannon"). Thank you, Norman Lear!

    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=463750025534727&_rdr

    Replies: @Joe Joe, @ScarletNumber, @Harry Baldwin, @Truth

    Good Times, not The Jeffersons 😉

    • Thanks: Malcolm X-Lax
  94. @James B. Shearer
    @Henry Canaday

    "...did not notice ice building up on the wing, and the pilot forgot how to pull out of the resulting stall .."

    Actually a little more complicated than that. They were worried about icing and set the stall warning to go off at a higher speed than normal. In the event while there was some icing it wasn't having much effect on plane's performance. When the stall warning went off the plane was not actually in or near a stall. But the male pilot reacted by pulling up (basically the opposite of what you are supposed to do). This did stall the plane. An automatic system tried to push the nose down but the pilot overrode it and continued to pull up quickly crashing the plane. The much younger female pilot was largely a bystander but didn't help any. Before the stall warning went off as pilot not flying she was supposed to be monitoring the air speed as they prepared to land. If she had been she would have seen the air speed was dropping towards where the stall warning would go off and could have warned "air speed". If the male pilot had reacted correctly by increasing air speed this would have probably avoided trouble.

    The male pilot's actions are hard to understand. Stall recovery is really basic airmanship. But for some reason he seems to have been in a blind panic and reacted instinctively. And when you are low like they were you only have a few seconds to come to your senses.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Henry Canaday

    Thanks for clarification.

  95. @Malcolm X-Lax
    @ThreeCranes

    There's an episode of the Jeffersons where boy genius Michael is determined to have a below-average IQ based on a test given to him at his school. Naturally, the family is outraged and Michael explains to the family how IQ tests are racially biased against blacks. Smash cut to James and Florida in the school Principal's office interrogating the Principal with questions like: What does "TCB" stand for? And... What's Malcolm X's last name? (and, no, it's not "Fannon"). Thank you, Norman Lear!

    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=463750025534727&_rdr

    Replies: @Joe Joe, @ScarletNumber, @Harry Baldwin, @Truth

    This was Good Times, not The Jeffersons. Both shows were Norman Lear productions that were spun off of All in the Family, either indirectly or directly.

    Later on, Diff’rent Strokes also did their Very Special Episode about how the SAT was biased.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    @ScarletNumber

    Of course. Speaking of IQ, my brain worries me sometimes.

  96. @Curle
    @ScarletNumber

    Lion got mad at the anti-vax crowd so he quit. Was probably also concerned for his identity.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    When he first became Lion, he tried to distance himself from his Half Sigma persona by declaring his new blog an HBD-free zone. However, he couldn’t help himself and the new blog became just like the old one. Also, while I won’t dox him here, he was doxxed when he started to write about Rick Rosner, who is his prototype of how a person who is low-class and high-IQ is in a disadvantageous position in life, as the primary purpose of a high IQ is to get on a good career track. He said

    Rick is an example of how society fails children who are geniuses.…it’s sad that instead of becoming a great scientist or business leader he winds up being nothing but a bouncer

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070319233454/http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/02/the_rick_rosner.html

    If you click on the above link, you will see our very own prosa123 commenting as Peter.

    By the way, if you were to look at a picture of Half Sigma/Lion of the Blogosphere, you wouldn’t be surprised. He looks like a Nazi propaganda poster.

    • Thanks: Curle
  97. No, McWhorter doesn’t say that. Recently, he has been explicitly saying that black kids can do a lot better, while being careful NOT to say that “gaps can be closed”, probably recognizing that educational interventions that help black kids will help nonblack kids too.

    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Polymath

    As I've been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races' educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.

    Replies: @Alden, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

  98. @Tom F.
    @Alfa158

    Certification is from each State. There is a background check. Making sure pedos, elder-abusers, forgers, those who don't recognize basic medical issues like cigarette burns, ringworm, dementia, jaundice, periodontal disease, etc. are screened out. But it is for legal liability.

    The State pays, when the case goes off the rails. Was that churlish of me to point it out? Very well, I'm churlish!

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Certification is from each State. There is a background check. Making sure pedos, elder-abusers, forgers, those who don’t recognize basic medical issues like cigarette burns, ringworm, dementia, jaundice, periodontal disease, etc. are screened out. But it is for legal liability.

    The State of Illinois does such a good job of this that a mental health facility way Downstate has the problem of “Mental Health Technicians” beating up on the patients.

    https://www.wsiltv.com/news/crime/investigations-at-choate-mental-health-developmental-center-lead-to-five-arrests/article_cebc539c-1cc2-574c-9036-301ea97c4f25.html

    • Replies: @Tom F.
    @Hibernian

    Thanks for the article, disappointed no photos. The 'Mental Health Technicians' may not have a PhD, but have demonstrated qualifications for the new 87,000 IRS positions.

  99. @Anonymous
    @Hibernian


    I’ve just been reading the Vietnam era “Report from Engine Co.82” by Dennis Smith. A big part of it is showing how firemen have to deal with the same cultural issues as policemen. Not to say that cultural sensitivity should outweigh physical strength and fire science knowledge, or be the pretext or a quota/patronage hiring system.
     
    Are you saying that a fire department should reflect the demographics of the community it serves, or not?

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Please reread my last sentence. Just saying that “Fires have no race.” is an oversimplification. Not advocating Irish firemen be limited to Irish neighborhoods, etc.

  100. @Polymath
    No, McWhorter doesn’t say that. Recently, he has been explicitly saying that black kids can do a lot better, while being careful NOT to say that “gaps can be closed”, probably recognizing that educational interventions that help black kids will help nonblack kids too.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    As I’ve been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races’ educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Steve Sailer

    Oh Steve, Steve, Steve; how about White race realists take care of race realist Whites?

    The entire town city county state and federal governments take care of blacks Hispanics Asians Indians criminals and the hapless clueless mindless reckless useless non White hordes. Also taking care of them are the majority of White college grads, all White businesses from Bechtel to Bob’s auto shop and the entire media.

    Blacks and other non Whites need no help from Whites.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    As I’ve been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races’ educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.
     
    They say a rising tide lifts all boats, but sometimes it just tips one over:

    The Eastland Disaster Killed More Passengers Than the Titanic and the Lusitania. Why Has It Been Forgotten?


    The worst maritime disaster on the Lakes, perhaps on any fresh water, took place when she was still tied to the dock.

    There's a reusable metaphor for contemporary America. Artemis, anyone?


    BTW, it's Labor Day in the US, and Labour Day in Canada, but neither in Australia. They avoid not only May 1, like we do, but any uniform date at all:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Day#Australia

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer


    As I’ve been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races’ educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.
     
    But in a desegregated society, that would leave the men of the lower performing races at a grave disadvantage in the mating market.
  101. @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't care how smart social workers are. In general, government bureaucracies get dumber employees than those who work in private business. It's been that way in our history, very much contrary to the history of the Mandarins in government in Chinese history. (Just being able to read and write in that language is big freaking deal.)

    I like our way better - if you're gonna have people laying down lots of rules on us, better it be people who really can't understand it all.

    If you're complaining about the unfairness of it all, well, AA has been around for coming up on 60 years. If you support that in any way, then you really have no standing to complain about rigged testing and that sort of thing. In for a penny, in for a pound.

    On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Hibernian, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    AA was imposed 61 years ago by President Kennedy’s Executive Order 10925 March 6 1961. All federal agencies and federal contractors shall take affirmative action to hire negroes. All federal agencies shall take affirmative action to use negro contractors.
    March 6 1961 7 weeks after he became president.

    There have been state referendums to end affirmative action. Referendums that held up in the courts when the White hating liberals appealed the results. There have been a very very few court decisions in favor of a White college applicant denied the job or admission because they are White.

    But the referendums and court rulings were never enforced so what use were they?

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Alden


    "But the referendums and court rulings [banning aa] were never enforced so what use were they?"
     
    That's why I consider the republican party just as evil as the dpusa. The former is the local White genocide train, while the latter runs express.
    , @Polistra
    @Alden

    https://i.ibb.co/c8KGF49/Screenshot-20220906-141655-Chrome.jpg

    Explaining why and how the phrase Affirmative Action was used originally: a different meaning from what later became attached to it.

    If anyone wants to know why this post is a gif, just ask.

  102. @Steve Sailer
    @Polymath

    As I've been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races' educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.

    Replies: @Alden, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    Oh Steve, Steve, Steve; how about White race realists take care of race realist Whites?

    The entire town city county state and federal governments take care of blacks Hispanics Asians Indians criminals and the hapless clueless mindless reckless useless non White hordes. Also taking care of them are the majority of White college grads, all White businesses from Bechtel to Bob’s auto shop and the entire media.

    Blacks and other non Whites need no help from Whites.

  103. One of her students, a 55-year-old woman who is an immigrant, failed the exam five times before finally passing on her sixth attempt, the social worker said.

    I bet she sailed through her citizenship test. A fourth grader of 1965 could have. The things are a joke. On purpose.

  104. @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't care how smart social workers are. In general, government bureaucracies get dumber employees than those who work in private business. It's been that way in our history, very much contrary to the history of the Mandarins in government in Chinese history. (Just being able to read and write in that language is big freaking deal.)

    I like our way better - if you're gonna have people laying down lots of rules on us, better it be people who really can't understand it all.

    If you're complaining about the unfairness of it all, well, AA has been around for coming up on 60 years. If you support that in any way, then you really have no standing to complain about rigged testing and that sort of thing. In for a penny, in for a pound.

    On that last note, Arizona Senate candidate Blake Masters made a statement against AA. We need more guys like this and no unprincipled squishes.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Hibernian, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    …the Mandarins in government in Chinese history. (Just being able to read and write in that language is big freaking deal.)

    You’re such a character!

  105. @Steve Sailer
    @Polymath

    As I've been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races' educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.

    Replies: @Alden, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    As I’ve been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races’ educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.

    They say a rising tide lifts all boats, but sometimes it just tips one over:

    The Eastland Disaster Killed More Passengers Than the Titanic and the Lusitania. Why Has It Been Forgotten?

    The worst maritime disaster on the Lakes, perhaps on any fresh water, took place when she was still tied to the dock.

    There’s a reusable metaphor for contemporary America. Artemis, anyone?

    BTW, it’s Labor Day in the US, and Labour Day in Canada, but neither in Australia. They avoid not only May 1, like we do, but any uniform date at all:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Day#Australia

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Reg Cæsar

    Chicagoans haven't forgotten the Eastland disaster, and put up a memorial to it earlier this century.

    https://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/il/ILCHIeastlandmem_kubal2.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0gkGYaXlKw

    but nearby around the corner from the Clark Street bridge Eastland site near Randolph & State is the building that once contained the Iroquois Theater.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbrX3V7feMA

    So the Chicago loop area contains not ONE, but TWO Megadisasters!

  106. @Alden
    @Joe8056

    I used to read his work in affirmative action. Because affirmative action is my greatest concern.

    Affirmative action affects every White in America. Most Whites are never victims of black crime. And many Whites manage to avoid black unpleasantness altogether. Either because of location or money. The middle aged White American women who run the nursing associations and unions are constantly carrying on about how non White nurses fail the bigoted licensing exam. Just like middle aged White men did and these Rutgers useful idiots are doing.,

    Destroy the job prospects of the younger generation of Whites. And then complain they are still living with 3 roommates or at home and working part time no job security last hired first fired at 40

    To the MEN OF UNZ who graduated in 1965 and got a job and were neither outsourced or affirmative actioned until retirement. Go ahead and jump in with blathering about SATs GPAs employment aptitude and competency tests. Go right ahead and live in your ignorant bubble.

    It’s 2022, not 1967 the last year that employers and occupational licensers were allowed to consider aptitude and competency in hiring and granting licenses.

    The only license not affirmative actioned is the IBEW electricians license. Because even the most viciously anti White judges don’t want their courthouses to go up in flames because of affirmative action wiring.

    Replies: @Joe8056, @Anonymous

    I graduated in 2001 and I got outsourced in 2019 by an Indian who was a ludicrous ceo. Complete idiot. It’s like that culture has been saving up idiots for generations. They can’t adapt. They’re briefly fancied but aren’t the solution to anything.

    I had to get another job. I got one and it was way better than the corporate hell I was kicked out of.

  107. @Hibernian
    @Occasional lurker

    I think it would be far easier for a STEM type to pass the social work exam with study than for a humanities type to pass the Professional Engineer exam in the same way.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Hibernian wrote to Occasional lurker:

    I think it would be far easier for a STEM type to pass the social work exam with study than for a humanities type to pass the Professional Engineer exam in the same way.

    The understatement of the year!

    A friend of mine who is a pharmacist likes to joke about the non-STEM majors who complain about how tough their anthropology class is.

    His suggestion is that they try taking organic chemistry (required for pharmacists, of course).

    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
    @PhysicistDave

    I had seen this in large numbers - STEM graduates doing excellent in non- STEM courses.

  108. @ScarletNumber
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    This was Good Times, not The Jeffersons. Both shows were Norman Lear productions that were spun off of All in the Family, either indirectly or directly.

    Later on, Diff'rent Strokes also did their Very Special Episode about how the SAT was biased.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax

    Of course. Speaking of IQ, my brain worries me sometimes.

  109. @Anonymous
    @The Alarmist

    You joke, but consider that many, many potential doctors were unfairly barred from practicing medicine thanks to draconian licensing and rationing rules drafted not too long ago.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Nicholas Stix

    You joke, but consider that many, many potential doctors were unfairly barred from practicing medicine thanks to draconian licensing and rationing rules drafted not too long ago.

    “Unfairly”?! “Draconian”?!
    You need to back up your assertions, Double-Anonymous 248.

  110. @Anonymous

    The 84 percent caught my eye because it has meaning in statistics,
     
    What is it about the number 84 percent that makes it have meaning in statistics?

    Replies: @Polistra

    For once, the Question Troll poses a pertinent question!

  111. @Alden
    @Achmed E. Newman

    AA was imposed 61 years ago by President Kennedy’s Executive Order 10925 March 6 1961. All federal agencies and federal contractors shall take affirmative action to hire negroes. All federal agencies shall take affirmative action to use negro contractors.
    March 6 1961 7 weeks after he became president.

    There have been state referendums to end affirmative action. Referendums that held up in the courts when the White hating liberals appealed the results. There have been a very very few court decisions in favor of a White college applicant denied the job or admission because they are White.

    But the referendums and court rulings were never enforced so what use were they?

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @Polistra

    “But the referendums and court rulings [banning aa] were never enforced so what use were they?”

    That’s why I consider the republican party just as evil as the dpusa. The former is the local White genocide train, while the latter runs express.

  112. @JimDandy
    @Steve Sailer

    What percentage of blacks have an IQ that is 75 or lower?

    Replies: @Calvin Hobbes, @Polistra

    On Martha’s Vineyard, 50%
    Where I live, 99%

  113. @Known Fact
    When social workers screw up their lives, who do they call?

    Replies: @Polistra

    Cops.

  114. Why do blacks even want to be social workers to begin with?

    I thought they all had high-paying jobs in TV commercials.

  115. @PhysicistDave
    @Hibernian

    Hibernian wrote to Occasional lurker:


    I think it would be far easier for a STEM type to pass the social work exam with study than for a humanities type to pass the Professional Engineer exam in the same way.
     
    The understatement of the year!

    A friend of mine who is a pharmacist likes to joke about the non-STEM majors who complain about how tough their anthropology class is.

    His suggestion is that they try taking organic chemistry (required for pharmacists, of course).

    Replies: @Old Brown Fool

    I had seen this in large numbers – STEM graduates doing excellent in non- STEM courses.

  116. Anon[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Mark in BC

    That's what they did with the Chicago fireman's hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.

    Replies: @JimDandy, @AnotherDad, @Anon

    That’s what they did with the Chicago fireman’s hiring test: made it so easy that about 95% of white guys who walked in off the street in Chicago passed it. Then they did a lottery for round 2.

    Via Emil’s Substack today, here’s a deep dive from the 1990s by Linda Gottfriedson into one of these magic unbiased professional credential tests that briefly appeared in the wake of disparate impact lawsuits and federal threats:

    Gottfredson, L. S. (1996). Racially gerrymandering the content of police tests to satisfy the U.S. Justice Department: A case study. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 2(3/4), 418-446.

    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1996gerrymandering.pdf

    Gottfredson was brought in as an expert witness and had full access to everything. It was much more complex than simply making the test easier and pass/fail. Massive cheating was structurally enabled, and cognitive sections were eliminated in favor of five factor personality tests.

  117. @Jack D

    These numbers are grossly disproportionate and demonstrate a failure in the exam’s design,”
     
    Of course, they don't suggest fixing the exam's design, they suggest getting rid of it. That's because they know that it is literally impossible to fix it. Even if the test was entirely given in Spanish and Ebonics and the test questions concerned the relative merits of rappers and various street drugs, white people would STILL outscore others by virtue of their higher IQ, which gives them greater capacity to memorize stuff and recall and process it quickly in a test context. Simply dumbing down the test doesn't work - whites will still pass at a higher rate. (Of course if you set the "pass" level low enough eventually everyone of every race will pass but this kind of defeats the purpose of the test.) Any paper and pencil test is ultimately an IQ test. The whole notion of g is that it is a measure of intellectual horsepower or CPU speed - if you have a fast computer it will solve any problem faster than a slow one.

    McWhorter can be forgiving for assuming that this is all nurture based and if only black people talked more to their kids this could be remedied - everyone knows how famously taciturn black people are. The notion that this is all genetic and is not going away and is never going away as long as different races exist in America and that we have imported (not one but two) huge and permanent underclasses is too horrible to contemplate.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @petit bourgeois

    I met John McWhorter in 2002 during his office hours at UC Berkeley when he was a linguistics professor and I was a lowly undergrad. A very smart man. We had a lengthy discussion about how chewing tobacco influenced the southern drawl.

    He’s not going to come out and say that negros are lower IQ than Whites. He’s not going to shit where he eats. He needs a paycheck, just like the rest of us. He’s not an idiot.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @petit bourgeois

    “ We had a lengthy discussion about how chewing tobacco influenced the southern drawl.”

    There’s still a drawl and a lot less chewing tobacco. What was his theory?

  118. @Jack D
    @Henry Canaday

    The Big Law law firm that I once worked at fired everyone who did not pass the bar exam on the first try one year. The backstory was that a recession had hit and they were looking for excuses to get rid of people but it's probably not a bad notion. If you look at politicians who did not pass the bar exam on their first try they are not a intellectually promising bunch. Of course nowadays this would be racis' fo' sure.

    Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can't pass on your first try maybe there shouldn't be a 2nd try and you should do something else - be a cargo pilot or do ATC or something.

    Replies: @James B. Shearer, @Etruscan Film Star

    Maybe airlines should do the same thing. If you can’t pass on your first try maybe there shouldn’t be a 2nd try and you should do something else – be a cargo pilot or do ATC or something.

    Crashing a cargo plane can have undesirable effects on the pilots and possibly people on the ground where the aircraft goes in. (If I recall, there was at least one fatality in the Buffalo residential neighborhood that was the crash site.) And air traffic control plays its own big role in flight safety.

    “Or something” would be a good alternative career path for incompetent pilots.

  119. If the English language is a hindrance to American blacks (listening to them talk, it evidently is), why do Hispanics and Asians score higher than blacks?

  120. @International Jew
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I suspect the Asians who go into social work are not the sharpest Asians. Of course white social workers aren't all that either, but I think they're less mediocre as whites go.

    Replies: @Anon, @Hibernian, @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    Yes, it’s selection bias.

    Also, with Hispanics and Asians, a reasonable case could be made that the English-only test disadvantages them. I imagine social work draws more heavily from immigrants/first generation than other vocational pursuits. Then again, Ebonical-Americans maybe have a legit gripe on that front, too.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    One of a social worker's main functions is to flap their jaw. You can't work with people when they can't understand you.

  121. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Polymath

    As I've been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races' educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.

    Replies: @Alden, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    As I’ve been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races’ educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.

    But in a desegregated society, that would leave the men of the lower performing races at a grave disadvantage in the mating market.

  122. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    @Joe8056

    I used to read his work in affirmative action. Because affirmative action is my greatest concern.

    Affirmative action affects every White in America. Most Whites are never victims of black crime. And many Whites manage to avoid black unpleasantness altogether. Either because of location or money. The middle aged White American women who run the nursing associations and unions are constantly carrying on about how non White nurses fail the bigoted licensing exam. Just like middle aged White men did and these Rutgers useful idiots are doing.,

    Destroy the job prospects of the younger generation of Whites. And then complain they are still living with 3 roommates or at home and working part time no job security last hired first fired at 40

    To the MEN OF UNZ who graduated in 1965 and got a job and were neither outsourced or affirmative actioned until retirement. Go ahead and jump in with blathering about SATs GPAs employment aptitude and competency tests. Go right ahead and live in your ignorant bubble.

    It’s 2022, not 1967 the last year that employers and occupational licensers were allowed to consider aptitude and competency in hiring and granting licenses.

    The only license not affirmative actioned is the IBEW electricians license. Because even the most viciously anti White judges don’t want their courthouses to go up in flames because of affirmative action wiring.

    Replies: @Joe8056, @Anonymous

    I used to read his work in affirmative action. Because affirmative action is my greatest concern.

    Immigration should be your greatest concern. Mexicans and other Hispanics can compete with Whites in many unskilled jobs and in many trades. China, Korea, India, and Pakistan produce people who can score well on STEM and medical aptitude tests. The Philippines and the Caribbean can produce good nurses, Jews are very good at law and business.

    What occupations are left for Whites?

    • Agree: AnotherDad
  123. @Jack D
    @James B. Shearer

    There are ways around this - if an examiner's pass rate is out of line or creeps up, put him under scrutiny. Have exams taped and instrumented and review the tapes afterward. Etc.

    TBH, commercial aviation safety seems to be one nut that we have cracked pretty well in this country. Commercial air crashes are much rarer than they once were - fatal incidents involving scheduled air carriers are vanishingly rare, especially not of the everyone on board dies type (there has been a couple of freak incidents involving 1 person getting sucked out due to uncontained engine failure). The Colgin crash was a dozen years ago and there have not been many since. It will be "interesting" to see if DIEversity causes this to creep up but so far so good.

    Replies: @Technite78

    TBH, commercial aviation safety seems to be one nut that we have cracked pretty well in this country. Commercial air crashes are much rarer than they once were – fatal incidents involving scheduled air carriers are vanishingly rare, especially not of the everyone on board dies type (there has been a couple of freak incidents involving 1 person getting sucked out due to uncontained engine failure). The Colgin crash was a dozen years ago and there have not been many since. It will be “interesting” to see if DIEversity causes this to creep up but so far so good.

    In many of the more technically difficult jobs, automated software is quickly replacing the need for highly skilled, repetitive work by experienced workers. Have any of you flown a drone lately? It flies itself… you cannot crash unless you do something silly. The danger will be where new software hasn’t been exhaustively tested (which is becoming more difficult as the software becomes more complex). The 737Max MCAS-related crashes, automotive autopilot crashes, etc. are examples of this… when there is heavy reliance on automation as opposed to experience, intelligence, and skill… bugs or deficiencies in software will result in bad outcomes more frequently.

    It’s possible that technology will improve fast enough so that the automation-caused accidents will be less numerous than the human-caused accidents that they eliminate…

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Technite78


    It’s possible that technology will improve fast enough so that the automation-caused accidents will be less numerous than the human-caused accidents that they eliminate…
     
    That's probably true already. If we were to replace all of the drivers in America with the best self-driving cars available (not Tesla's "self-driving" cruise control but the actual self drivers from Waymo, Cruise, etc.) tomorrow the number of auto accidents and deaths would surely go down - no more drunk drivers, crazy drivers, etc. In order to reduce traffic deaths, self driving tech doesn't have to be (and will never be) perfect, it just has to be better than human drivers. It's just that people have this strange attitude toward robots - if a human driver kills someone, it's no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it's a news story.

    Replies: @Technite78, @Hibernian

  124. @Malcolm X-Lax
    Social work is already a low status/low iq gig. The area that should really concern everyone is nursing. Many states have already abandoned merit-based admissions to nursing programs with regard to blacks and Hispanics. As a nurse, I can tell you that the NCLEX (RN licensure) exam I took over a decade ago was pretty easy. If they make it any easier in order to up the percentage of black nurses, healthcare is in big trouble.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    This.

    The girlfriend turned 60 in June, and she’s weighing the benefits of continuing (years of working hard for shortish money culminating in her current, very lucrative gig) or getting out before the racial silliness gets totally out of hand. When she started this job 14 years ago, she joked that she was the diversity, a North Shore Italian swimming in a sea of Irish women. Today, 7 out of the last 10 departmental hires have been black.

    The perfect example of the New World Order is her immediate “boss”, a young black woman who’s not even an RN.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Brutusale


    The girlfriend turned 60 in June, and she’s weighing the benefits of continuing (years of working hard for shortish money culminating in her current, very lucrative gig) or getting out before the racial silliness gets totally out of hand.
     
    Classic self-defeating behavior by Whites. Surrender territory, positions of influence, resources, and cede ground to others.
  125. @Lbbhjgddfddfdd
    @International Jew

    Yes, it’s selection bias.

    Also, with Hispanics and Asians, a reasonable case could be made that the English-only test disadvantages them. I imagine social work draws more heavily from immigrants/first generation than other vocational pursuits. Then again, Ebonical-Americans maybe have a legit gripe on that front, too.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    One of a social worker’s main functions is to flap their jaw. You can’t work with people when they can’t understand you.

  126. @Technite78
    @Jack D


    TBH, commercial aviation safety seems to be one nut that we have cracked pretty well in this country. Commercial air crashes are much rarer than they once were – fatal incidents involving scheduled air carriers are vanishingly rare, especially not of the everyone on board dies type (there has been a couple of freak incidents involving 1 person getting sucked out due to uncontained engine failure). The Colgin crash was a dozen years ago and there have not been many since. It will be “interesting” to see if DIEversity causes this to creep up but so far so good.
     
    In many of the more technically difficult jobs, automated software is quickly replacing the need for highly skilled, repetitive work by experienced workers. Have any of you flown a drone lately? It flies itself... you cannot crash unless you do something silly. The danger will be where new software hasn't been exhaustively tested (which is becoming more difficult as the software becomes more complex). The 737Max MCAS-related crashes, automotive autopilot crashes, etc. are examples of this... when there is heavy reliance on automation as opposed to experience, intelligence, and skill... bugs or deficiencies in software will result in bad outcomes more frequently.

    It's possible that technology will improve fast enough so that the automation-caused accidents will be less numerous than the human-caused accidents that they eliminate...

    Replies: @Jack D

    It’s possible that technology will improve fast enough so that the automation-caused accidents will be less numerous than the human-caused accidents that they eliminate…

    That’s probably true already. If we were to replace all of the drivers in America with the best self-driving cars available (not Tesla’s “self-driving” cruise control but the actual self drivers from Waymo, Cruise, etc.) tomorrow the number of auto accidents and deaths would surely go down – no more drunk drivers, crazy drivers, etc. In order to reduce traffic deaths, self driving tech doesn’t have to be (and will never be) perfect, it just has to be better than human drivers. It’s just that people have this strange attitude toward robots – if a human driver kills someone, it’s no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it’s a news story.

    • Replies: @Technite78
    @Jack D


    It’s just that people have this strange attitude toward robots – if a human driver kills someone, it’s no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it’s a news story.

     

    It's also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others... it's likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit. That's already the case for common carriers (i.e. airlines, bus companies, etc.), so I'd guess the fatality rate of self-driving cars would have to be closer to that of airline travel than of private cars to avoid the huge liability.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @AnotherDad, @Jim Don Bob

    , @Hibernian
    @Jack D

    Self driving cars have already caused disasters. How will they deal with pedestrians and bicyclists in urban areas who have no regard for their own safety?

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  127. Every few years the state bar hints around they want to lower the passing score for blacks. It always gets laughed down.

    One year it will get slipped through.

  128. @Anonymous
    @Anon


    The white-Asian gap in the social work exam is similar to the gap in the bar exam.
     
    Why didn’t you capitalize White?

    Replies: @Anon

    That’s how capitalization works in English – colors aren’t generally capitalized, geographic indicators are. I don’t capitalize black or white.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anon


    That’s how capitalization works in English – colors aren’t generally capitalized, geographic indicators are. I don’t capitalize black or white.
     
    The “White-Asian gap” is not a color. It refers to ethnic or racial groups. It doesn’t make sense to compare a population group to a color. Show some respect for the White people.
  129. Anon[268] • Disclaimer says:
    @Brutusale
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    This.

    The girlfriend turned 60 in June, and she's weighing the benefits of continuing (years of working hard for shortish money culminating in her current, very lucrative gig) or getting out before the racial silliness gets totally out of hand. When she started this job 14 years ago, she joked that she was the diversity, a North Shore Italian swimming in a sea of Irish women. Today, 7 out of the last 10 departmental hires have been black.

    The perfect example of the New World Order is her immediate "boss", a young black woman who's not even an RN.

    Replies: @Anon

    The girlfriend turned 60 in June, and she’s weighing the benefits of continuing (years of working hard for shortish money culminating in her current, very lucrative gig) or getting out before the racial silliness gets totally out of hand.

    Classic self-defeating behavior by Whites. Surrender territory, positions of influence, resources, and cede ground to others.

  130. Anon[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    @Anonymous

    That's how capitalization works in English - colors aren't generally capitalized, geographic indicators are. I don't capitalize black or white.

    Replies: @Anon

    That’s how capitalization works in English – colors aren’t generally capitalized, geographic indicators are. I don’t capitalize black or white.

    The “White-Asian gap” is not a color. It refers to ethnic or racial groups. It doesn’t make sense to compare a population group to a color. Show some respect for the White people.

  131. @Hibernian
    @Tom F.


    Certification is from each State. There is a background check. Making sure pedos, elder-abusers, forgers, those who don’t recognize basic medical issues like cigarette burns, ringworm, dementia, jaundice, periodontal disease, etc. are screened out. But it is for legal liability.
     
    The State of Illinois does such a good job of this that a mental health facility way Downstate has the problem of "Mental Health Technicians" beating up on the patients.

    https://www.wsiltv.com/news/crime/investigations-at-choate-mental-health-developmental-center-lead-to-five-arrests/article_cebc539c-1cc2-574c-9036-301ea97c4f25.html

    Replies: @Tom F.

    Thanks for the article, disappointed no photos. The ‘Mental Health Technicians’ may not have a PhD, but have demonstrated qualifications for the new 87,000 IRS positions.

  132. @Ralph L
    @watson79

    A former neighbor got a masters of SW online from Liberty U and hated the work. Didn't like his coworkers or the clients. Before that, he told me he wanted to move to the coast, but it would be underwater in a few years. I managed to resist laughing at him.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Before that, he told me he wanted to move to the coast, but it would be underwater in a few years.

    OMG, has someone told the Obamas? They recently sunk \$12 million into an oceanfront home.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Harry Baldwin

    It's probably already underwater. You know how black people are with their finances ..

  133. @Malcolm X-Lax
    @ThreeCranes

    There's an episode of the Jeffersons where boy genius Michael is determined to have a below-average IQ based on a test given to him at his school. Naturally, the family is outraged and Michael explains to the family how IQ tests are racially biased against blacks. Smash cut to James and Florida in the school Principal's office interrogating the Principal with questions like: What does "TCB" stand for? And... What's Malcolm X's last name? (and, no, it's not "Fannon"). Thank you, Norman Lear!

    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=463750025534727&_rdr

    Replies: @Joe Joe, @ScarletNumber, @Harry Baldwin, @Truth

    I know the answer to both of those relatively simple “culturally biased” questions.

    • Agree: Malcolm X-Lax
  134. @Jack D
    @Technite78


    It’s possible that technology will improve fast enough so that the automation-caused accidents will be less numerous than the human-caused accidents that they eliminate…
     
    That's probably true already. If we were to replace all of the drivers in America with the best self-driving cars available (not Tesla's "self-driving" cruise control but the actual self drivers from Waymo, Cruise, etc.) tomorrow the number of auto accidents and deaths would surely go down - no more drunk drivers, crazy drivers, etc. In order to reduce traffic deaths, self driving tech doesn't have to be (and will never be) perfect, it just has to be better than human drivers. It's just that people have this strange attitude toward robots - if a human driver kills someone, it's no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it's a news story.

    Replies: @Technite78, @Hibernian

    It’s just that people have this strange attitude toward robots – if a human driver kills someone, it’s no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it’s a news story.

    It’s also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others… it’s likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit. That’s already the case for common carriers (i.e. airlines, bus companies, etc.), so I’d guess the fatality rate of self-driving cars would have to be closer to that of airline travel than of private cars to avoid the huge liability.

    • Thanks: kaganovitch
    • Replies: @Recently Based
    @Technite78

    I suspect Technite78 is correct about accident rates, though it's not obvious what would happen as people started trying to game the algorithms (e.g., "Now that I know a car will always hit the brakes instead of hitting me, I am much more likely to just wander into the middle of several lanes of high-speed traffic when I'm drunk and an irresponsible prick," etc.).

    Assuming it would reduce deaths significantly, liability law would have to adapt. As one simple example, self-driving car manufacturers pay into an insurance pool which is used to compensate victims and to be licensed to sell such cars they are subject to health and safety regulations -- basically how we regulate consumer banking. There are likely other, smarter ways to deal with liability. It would evidence of deeply dysfunctional society if it let such a consideration block a major technological advance.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Technite78


    It’s also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others… it’s likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit.
     
    Excellent comment Technite.

    I'm with Jack, my guess is self-driving cars are already superior to humans--if dealing with other self-driving cars. We average over 100 human generated road-kills a day. I think if the roads were full of self-driving cars it would be lower. (Perhaps even mostly pedestrians doing weird stuff. Not sure.)

    But the problem is a software capability issue goes into the "productive liability" bucket with the opportunity of all the usual trial lawyer histrionics about "they didn't care", "profit over human lives" ... yadda, yadda, yadda.

    To get past that hump and roll out this--extremely useful and productivity boosting--technology i think you're going to have to legally take this out of that sort of system, and into one that's more directly "you pay normal compensation for your screw ups" as long as your tech is "reasonably within state of the art".

    Simply sticking with drivers having private insurance and having insurance companies figure out pricing for various automated systems--based on their failure rates--would be fine.

    Having a licensing agency and adding a traffic division to the NTSB wouldn't hurt. Make all the manufacturers put test vehicles through their paces in controlled tests, then uncontrolled, in traffic, tests to be certified for road use. Black box accident data--data should be continuously collected--is submitted to the NTSB's traffic division and they can issue recommendations and order manufacturer "recalls".

    Really aren't any "unsolvable" issues here, just political roadblocks.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Technite78

    I programmed computers for many years and there is NFW I am getting in a self driving car.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Adam Smith

  135. @Bardon Kaldian
    Which multiracials? They seem to fare better than Asians, who are also lagging behind whites.

    Replies: @International Jew, @ForeverCARealist, @Anon

    My guess is the ethnic makeup of the asians taking the test is skewed away from north east asian populations, and that this explains most of the difference.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Anon

    Asians, in this case, is, I'd say- Filipinos.

  136. @Anon
    @AnotherDad


    — If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then “affirmative action” or “disparate impact” messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.
     
    Jews don’t want a quota system because the Jewish quota would be relatively small. Therefore, the United States does not have a quota system.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @AnotherDad

    The generalized form of this is the key problem with quotas (beyond, you know, the whole having people doing important jobs that are shittier at them thing).

    How do you define the reference class for the quotas? Blacks? American descendants of slaves? All whites? Jewish whites vs. gentile whites? Catholic white gentiles vs Protestant white gentiles? Irish Catholic white gentiles vs. Italian Catholic white gentiles? etc, etc, etc

  137. @Technite78
    @Jack D


    It’s just that people have this strange attitude toward robots – if a human driver kills someone, it’s no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it’s a news story.

     

    It's also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others... it's likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit. That's already the case for common carriers (i.e. airlines, bus companies, etc.), so I'd guess the fatality rate of self-driving cars would have to be closer to that of airline travel than of private cars to avoid the huge liability.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @AnotherDad, @Jim Don Bob

    I suspect Technite78 is correct about accident rates, though it’s not obvious what would happen as people started trying to game the algorithms (e.g., “Now that I know a car will always hit the brakes instead of hitting me, I am much more likely to just wander into the middle of several lanes of high-speed traffic when I’m drunk and an irresponsible prick,” etc.).

    Assuming it would reduce deaths significantly, liability law would have to adapt. As one simple example, self-driving car manufacturers pay into an insurance pool which is used to compensate victims and to be licensed to sell such cars they are subject to health and safety regulations — basically how we regulate consumer banking. There are likely other, smarter ways to deal with liability. It would evidence of deeply dysfunctional society if it let such a consideration block a major technological advance.

    • Agree: Jack D
  138. @Anon
    @International Jew

    The white-Asian gap in the social work exam is similar to the gap in the bar exam. Maybe Asians in the US just aren't that verbally oriented. I can think of all sorts of explanations why this would be the case.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    Many people aspire to become lawyers, and families celebrate that achievement. Asians, at least the JICK’s, probably only become lawyers if they fail at STEM, and are forced to go to an Ivy safety school after being rejected by MIT.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    It just doesn't work that way. If you are STEM oriented and you don't get into MIT you go to Carnegie Mellon or Hopkins or you go to your state's flagship university or whatever - you don't switch careers and become a lawyer instead. Nor are there many Ivy's that could be considered rational "safety" schools for MIT. They are not interchangeable places except to someone who knows very little except for some stupid meaningless ranking system. If according to some ranking system in a magazine ("10 Best Cars") a Mazda Miata is #1 and a Ford F150 is the #2 vehicle and the Mazdas are out of stock, does it make ANY sense to get the pickup truck just because it's the next one down on the list? Going to Brown instead of MIT makes about the same amount of sense.

    Law school is not the place for STEM dropouts except in rare cases. Although it taps different centers of the brain, law school and the bar exam are no piece of cake, especially not for someone whose brain is more comfortable manipulating numbers than words, which is the stereotypical E. Asian trait.

    I assume the sock puppet username is because that you don't want to be associated with this stupid trollish remark.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon, @Hibernian

  139. @Malcolm X-Lax
    @ThreeCranes

    There's an episode of the Jeffersons where boy genius Michael is determined to have a below-average IQ based on a test given to him at his school. Naturally, the family is outraged and Michael explains to the family how IQ tests are racially biased against blacks. Smash cut to James and Florida in the school Principal's office interrogating the Principal with questions like: What does "TCB" stand for? And... What's Malcolm X's last name? (and, no, it's not "Fannon"). Thank you, Norman Lear!

    https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=463750025534727&_rdr

    Replies: @Joe Joe, @ScarletNumber, @Harry Baldwin, @Truth

    There’s an episode of the Jeffersons

    Smash cut to James and Florida

    Im glad there was no “black television” section on that SAT you claim to have aced.

    • LOL: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Truth

    Whaddya' mean, Truth? You never heard of James and Florida Jefferson, moving on up to the East Side, keeping their heads above water? "It's the big one, Wheezy!"

    If it were Malcolm X-Lax (one of my favorite handles of all time) and Hussein Øb☭ma in the final round of Jeopardy, the topic being "1970s Black TV shows", I'd have to bet on Alex Trebeck leaving with the most money.

    Replies: @Curle

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Truth

    In my defense, all black people kind of look the same to me. And what's worse is I spent the whole episode waiting to see what Raj, Dwayne and Rerun were up to.

  140. @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    As I’ve been saying for a dozen years, it seems more plausible to try to boost all races’ educational performance by a half standard deviation than to try to boost half the races by a full standard deviation while not letting the higher-performing half of races improve at all.
     
    They say a rising tide lifts all boats, but sometimes it just tips one over:

    The Eastland Disaster Killed More Passengers Than the Titanic and the Lusitania. Why Has It Been Forgotten?


    The worst maritime disaster on the Lakes, perhaps on any fresh water, took place when she was still tied to the dock.

    There's a reusable metaphor for contemporary America. Artemis, anyone?


    BTW, it's Labor Day in the US, and Labour Day in Canada, but neither in Australia. They avoid not only May 1, like we do, but any uniform date at all:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Day#Australia

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    Chicagoans haven’t forgotten the Eastland disaster, and put up a memorial to it earlier this century.

    but nearby around the corner from the Clark Street bridge Eastland site near Randolph & State is the building that once contained the Iroquois Theater.

    So the Chicago loop area contains not ONE, but TWO Megadisasters!

  141. All the discussion on this topic fails to address a basic question.

    Is there any evidence that those who fail the test would be more destructive to society than those pass?

    Inquiring minds would surely like to know.

  142. @Anon
    @AnotherDad


    — If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then “affirmative action” or “disparate impact” messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.
     
    Jews don’t want a quota system because the Jewish quota would be relatively small. Therefore, the United States does not have a quota system.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @AnotherDad

    — If you are doing political/racial hiring it is much better to do it explicitly with quotas then “affirmative action” or “disparate impact” messing with standards. You set the quotas, but then get the best people you can within each quota group.

    Jews don’t want a quota system because the Jewish quota would be relatively small. Therefore, the United States does not have a quota system.

    Agree. I think this is a large part of the reason the American legal system ended up forcing racial patronage hiring into “goals and timelines” and “affirmative action” and “disparate impact”.

    Just saying “40% of the people in town (and most of the criminals) are black. So we want to make sure the police aren’t all white and look like ‘the man’. So we want to make sure the cops are at least 1/3 black” brings in the concept of the dreaded “quota”.

    And Jews are well aware that if they are wildly overrepresented across pretty much elite occupations, especially those that are verbal and political. If the idea of “looks like America” ever lined up with “quota” in any way that included Jews … there would be … trouble.

    But Jews must push minoritarianism, “diversity!” and love sticking it to white gentiles. So we’ve got the shittiest imaginable political hiring–racial patronage system–that is infused with lying and coughs up crap really destructive nonsense like “disparate impact”.

  143. @Technite78
    @Jack D


    It’s just that people have this strange attitude toward robots – if a human driver kills someone, it’s no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it’s a news story.

     

    It's also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others... it's likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit. That's already the case for common carriers (i.e. airlines, bus companies, etc.), so I'd guess the fatality rate of self-driving cars would have to be closer to that of airline travel than of private cars to avoid the huge liability.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @AnotherDad, @Jim Don Bob

    It’s also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others… it’s likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit.

    Excellent comment Technite.

    I’m with Jack, my guess is self-driving cars are already superior to humans–if dealing with other self-driving cars. We average over 100 human generated road-kills a day. I think if the roads were full of self-driving cars it would be lower. (Perhaps even mostly pedestrians doing weird stuff. Not sure.)

    But the problem is a software capability issue goes into the “productive liability” bucket with the opportunity of all the usual trial lawyer histrionics about “they didn’t care”, “profit over human lives” … yadda, yadda, yadda.

    To get past that hump and roll out this–extremely useful and productivity boosting–technology i think you’re going to have to legally take this out of that sort of system, and into one that’s more directly “you pay normal compensation for your screw ups” as long as your tech is “reasonably within state of the art”.

    Simply sticking with drivers having private insurance and having insurance companies figure out pricing for various automated systems–based on their failure rates–would be fine.

    Having a licensing agency and adding a traffic division to the NTSB wouldn’t hurt. Make all the manufacturers put test vehicles through their paces in controlled tests, then uncontrolled, in traffic, tests to be certified for road use. Black box accident data–data should be continuously collected–is submitted to the NTSB’s traffic division and they can issue recommendations and order manufacturer “recalls”.

    Really aren’t any “unsolvable” issues here, just political roadblocks.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    Agree that "worker's compensation" type systems are the best solution for these kind of issue. There is a similar system for vaccine claims. The idea is that rather than arguing about fault (did you walk in front of the moving self driving car such that even a human would not have had time to brake?) you just go before a panel and get compensated some reasonable amount for your injury - no "pain and suffering", no punitive damages, no grandstanding in front of a jury about how eeevil and heartless the corporation is. All self-driving car owners have to buy compensation insurance for the injuries that their self-driving car causes (including to themselves). All self-driving cars would have to meet certain standards to be certified to be on the road.

    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous - you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It's going to require some legal reform but the trillion $ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @AnotherDad

  144. @Occasional lurker
    @Jim Don Bob

    As a social worker, you have to be well versed in law and administrative practice regarding social benefits of diverse kinds as well as (for example) what the legal position is regarding a child that you suspect is maltreated by its parents, under what conditions may you or must you intervene, what options are there? I would not expect to be able to pass a social worker licensing exam, even though I am probably two standard deviations above the typical social worker in IQ.

    Replies: @Hibernian, @The Problem with Midway

    Two standard deviations above the typical social worker? You have an IQ of 115?

  145. @Alden
    @Achmed E. Newman

    AA was imposed 61 years ago by President Kennedy’s Executive Order 10925 March 6 1961. All federal agencies and federal contractors shall take affirmative action to hire negroes. All federal agencies shall take affirmative action to use negro contractors.
    March 6 1961 7 weeks after he became president.

    There have been state referendums to end affirmative action. Referendums that held up in the courts when the White hating liberals appealed the results. There have been a very very few court decisions in favor of a White college applicant denied the job or admission because they are White.

    But the referendums and court rulings were never enforced so what use were they?

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @Polistra


    Explaining why and how the phrase Affirmative Action was used originally: a different meaning from what later became attached to it.

    If anyone wants to know why this post is a gif, just ask.

  146. @AnotherDad
    @Technite78


    It’s also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others… it’s likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit.
     
    Excellent comment Technite.

    I'm with Jack, my guess is self-driving cars are already superior to humans--if dealing with other self-driving cars. We average over 100 human generated road-kills a day. I think if the roads were full of self-driving cars it would be lower. (Perhaps even mostly pedestrians doing weird stuff. Not sure.)

    But the problem is a software capability issue goes into the "productive liability" bucket with the opportunity of all the usual trial lawyer histrionics about "they didn't care", "profit over human lives" ... yadda, yadda, yadda.

    To get past that hump and roll out this--extremely useful and productivity boosting--technology i think you're going to have to legally take this out of that sort of system, and into one that's more directly "you pay normal compensation for your screw ups" as long as your tech is "reasonably within state of the art".

    Simply sticking with drivers having private insurance and having insurance companies figure out pricing for various automated systems--based on their failure rates--would be fine.

    Having a licensing agency and adding a traffic division to the NTSB wouldn't hurt. Make all the manufacturers put test vehicles through their paces in controlled tests, then uncontrolled, in traffic, tests to be certified for road use. Black box accident data--data should be continuously collected--is submitted to the NTSB's traffic division and they can issue recommendations and order manufacturer "recalls".

    Really aren't any "unsolvable" issues here, just political roadblocks.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Agree that “worker’s compensation” type systems are the best solution for these kind of issue. There is a similar system for vaccine claims. The idea is that rather than arguing about fault (did you walk in front of the moving self driving car such that even a human would not have had time to brake?) you just go before a panel and get compensated some reasonable amount for your injury – no “pain and suffering”, no punitive damages, no grandstanding in front of a jury about how eeevil and heartless the corporation is. All self-driving car owners have to buy compensation insurance for the injuries that their self-driving car causes (including to themselves). All self-driving cars would have to meet certain standards to be certified to be on the road.

    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous – you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It’s going to require some legal reform but the trillion \$ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous – you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It’s going to require some legal reform but the trillion $ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.
     
    You are talking about a legal system that dunned anyone involved in the totally legal opioid biz, doctors, manufacturers and pharmacies alike, for well over $100b. I fully expect any company that gets into self-driving in a big way to be Johns Manville'd to death. You have 3M getting hit with a $25m damage award for hearing damage to one (1) person.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/us-judge-cuts-55-million-3m-combat-earplug-verdict-by-over-half-2022-05-25/

    Think of all the self-driving accident victims who survive but require constant medical care. A $100m award here, a $100m award there, and pretty soon, we're talking about real money.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous – you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It’s going to require some legal reform but the trillion $ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.
     
    An amazing number of jobs are on the chopping block.

    Said it before, but my son--he and 3 other classmates--built and automated bartender for their spring project. "Bartender (the key word) ..." and your drink order is underway.

    Driving/delivery, food prep/serving, cleaning, food processing, assembly ... And then there's all the expert system stuff. You don't really need a doc, when "DocSoft" is better than any individual doc. All you need is a nurse practioner--or robot!--to describe symptoms, draw blood, observe skin condition or movement limitation etc. etc.

    This is an obvious bullet flying at society which is hugely beneficial but is going to have huge destabilizing--what to do with all these people?--implications.

    Which just make our immigration policies--"more cheap labor!"--even more insane.

    Replies: @anonymous

  147. @Lbbhjgddfddfdd
    @Anon

    Many people aspire to become lawyers, and families celebrate that achievement. Asians, at least the JICK’s, probably only become lawyers if they fail at STEM, and are forced to go to an Ivy safety school after being rejected by MIT.

    Replies: @Jack D

    It just doesn’t work that way. If you are STEM oriented and you don’t get into MIT you go to Carnegie Mellon or Hopkins or you go to your state’s flagship university or whatever – you don’t switch careers and become a lawyer instead. Nor are there many Ivy’s that could be considered rational “safety” schools for MIT. They are not interchangeable places except to someone who knows very little except for some stupid meaningless ranking system. If according to some ranking system in a magazine (“10 Best Cars”) a Mazda Miata is #1 and a Ford F150 is the #2 vehicle and the Mazdas are out of stock, does it make ANY sense to get the pickup truck just because it’s the next one down on the list? Going to Brown instead of MIT makes about the same amount of sense.

    Law school is not the place for STEM dropouts except in rare cases. Although it taps different centers of the brain, law school and the bar exam are no piece of cake, especially not for someone whose brain is more comfortable manipulating numbers than words, which is the stereotypical E. Asian trait.

    I assume the sock puppet username is because that you don’t want to be associated with this stupid trollish remark.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    If it makes you feel better, Jack, I know a guy from a family of well-off lawyers who left his Washington, FS corporate lawyer job to become an airline pilot. His family disowned him for a couple of years.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Anon
    @Jack D


    Although it taps different centers of the brain, law school and the bar exam are no piece of cake, especially not for someone whose brain is more comfortable manipulating numbers than words, which is the stereotypical E. Asian trait.
     
    Are you sure about this statement about different centers of the brain is true? Law is said to be logical and analytical. Is that not what STEM is? Sailer himself has compared computer coding and law and suggested similarities.
    , @Hibernian
    @Jack D

    The Ivy League schools including Harvard all have engineering programs, and they are great at math, chemistry, and physics.

    Replies: @Jack D

  148. @Harry Baldwin
    @Ralph L

    Before that, he told me he wanted to move to the coast, but it would be underwater in a few years.

    OMG, has someone told the Obamas? They recently sunk $12 million into an oceanfront home.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s probably already underwater. You know how black people are with their finances ..

  149. @Anon
    @Bardon Kaldian

    My guess is the ethnic makeup of the asians taking the test is skewed away from north east asian populations, and that this explains most of the difference.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Asians, in this case, is, I’d say- Filipinos.

  150. @Truth
    @Malcolm X-Lax


    There’s an episode of the Jeffersons
     

    Smash cut to James and Florida

     

    Im glad there was no "black television" section on that SAT you claim to have aced.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Malcolm X-Lax

    Whaddya’ mean, Truth? You never heard of James and Florida Jefferson, moving on up to the East Side, keeping their heads above water? “It’s the big one, Wheezy!”

    If it were Malcolm X-Lax (one of my favorite handles of all time) and Hussein Øb☭ma in the final round of Jeopardy, the topic being “1970s Black TV shows”, I’d have to bet on Alex Trebeck leaving with the most money.

    • LOL: Truth, MEH 0910
    • Replies: @Curle
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Good bet. Hawaiian kids spend their free time outdoors.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  151. @Jack D
    @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    It just doesn't work that way. If you are STEM oriented and you don't get into MIT you go to Carnegie Mellon or Hopkins or you go to your state's flagship university or whatever - you don't switch careers and become a lawyer instead. Nor are there many Ivy's that could be considered rational "safety" schools for MIT. They are not interchangeable places except to someone who knows very little except for some stupid meaningless ranking system. If according to some ranking system in a magazine ("10 Best Cars") a Mazda Miata is #1 and a Ford F150 is the #2 vehicle and the Mazdas are out of stock, does it make ANY sense to get the pickup truck just because it's the next one down on the list? Going to Brown instead of MIT makes about the same amount of sense.

    Law school is not the place for STEM dropouts except in rare cases. Although it taps different centers of the brain, law school and the bar exam are no piece of cake, especially not for someone whose brain is more comfortable manipulating numbers than words, which is the stereotypical E. Asian trait.

    I assume the sock puppet username is because that you don't want to be associated with this stupid trollish remark.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon, @Hibernian

    If it makes you feel better, Jack, I know a guy from a family of well-off lawyers who left his Washington, FS corporate lawyer job to become an airline pilot. His family disowned him for a couple of years.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Doesn't make me feel better or worse. Something like half of all people with law degrees don't practice law. It's not for everyone.

    I don't know any professional pilots who changed careers and became lawyers but it wouldn't shock me. One close lawyer friend was an aerospace engineer back in the early 70's. Every time the government cancelled whatever program he was working on he would lose his job (remember "Will the last one leaving Seattle turn out the lights?"

    https://www.historylink.org/Content/Media/Photos/Large/will-the-last-person-leaving-seattle-turn-out-the-lights-billboard-april-1971.jpg

    He got sick of this and went back to law school and became a lawyer.

    But the idea that law is a career for Asians who are too dumb to do STEM is idiotic because it presumes some sort of simple rank ordering system where law is below STEM. Putting law above STEM would be just as stupid. Is an apple higher or lower than an orange?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @John Johnson

  152. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    If it makes you feel better, Jack, I know a guy from a family of well-off lawyers who left his Washington, FS corporate lawyer job to become an airline pilot. His family disowned him for a couple of years.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Doesn’t make me feel better or worse. Something like half of all people with law degrees don’t practice law. It’s not for everyone.

    I don’t know any professional pilots who changed careers and became lawyers but it wouldn’t shock me. One close lawyer friend was an aerospace engineer back in the early 70’s. Every time the government cancelled whatever program he was working on he would lose his job (remember “Will the last one leaving Seattle turn out the lights?”

    He got sick of this and went back to law school and became a lawyer.

    But the idea that law is a career for Asians who are too dumb to do STEM is idiotic because it presumes some sort of simple rank ordering system where law is below STEM. Putting law above STEM would be just as stupid. Is an apple higher or lower than an orange?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Jack, I did know a pilot who became a cardiologist during a long furlough (it must have been pretty damn long!). He piloted the Airbus 319/320s at the time and showed me his cardiology practice business card.

    I think you may misunderstand Mr. Arbitrary Touch Typist to some degree. I don't think law school is much easier than engineering or especially any less work. However, the Oriental* parents do think much more highly of engineering, science, and software degrees - in that order, I think - than they do the practice of law. If someone is not good with numbers, he might be best in Law School. It would be a let-down for lots of Chinese Tiger parents if made that switch or decided from the beginning on this.

    One more funny story: This one Chinese kid, back when there weren't NEARLY as many, had cheated on a test report (very obviously, as he'd copied last semesters' while the instructor had changed the basic data but not the experiment). He told those who kicked him out of the class that he didn't care a bit about engineering, but his parents would not let him take over their well-established Chinese restaurant unless he finished his engineering degree, haha!

    You really got to wonder about some parents. "My son's an engineer!" "What's his specialty?" "Mu gu gai pan."

    .

    * I'm not gonna speak for all of freaking Asia who've come to the US.

    Replies: @anonymous

    , @John Johnson
    @Jack D

    Lawyers actually have high rates of depression and suicide. There are also too many of them and most are mediocre. The attorney in The Simpsons that takes side jobs makes fun of that.

    I could have gone into law but I find the entire concept of Western justice to be disgusting.

    More money = better lawyer available to knowingly lie for you.

    Strong case + poor = well good luck with your public attorney. He sucks and really doesn't care if you win because he gets paid either way.

    So the moral and poor are at a disadvantage compared to the wealthy and immoral.

    Dumb system.

    If that isn't bad enough the whole system is skewed with race denial. Prosecutors get a wink and a nod to not lock up too many Blacks this year. Jails are full.

  153. @Nervous in Stalingrad

    McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home
     
    Not long ago, we had the tragedy of the unbanked. Are we now faced with the unbooked?

    If only there were a place where people, black or white, could go to read and borrow books to take home and read free of charge. Wouldn't a place like that solve the shortage of reading material and eliminate the problem of "book deserts" in black homes?

    Someday, perhaps, we may see the advent of such places. Until then, we will just have to continue to sit on our hands and bemoan the fact that owning books is #8,737 on the list of manifestations of White Supremacy.

    (Seriously, though: I read the NYT article, and John McWhorter does not give a single reason as to why “the language socialization of the Trackton child" is “almost book-free."

    Is it possible the explanation is as simple as blacks simply do not value books?

    I cannot think why any household that wants books in 2022 is unable to afford them at a time when books are cheaper and more plentiful than they have ever been. Am I missing something?)

    Replies: @Renard, @Dan Kurt

    RE: “McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home”

    “Are we now faced with the unbooked?” Nervous in Stalingrad

    It is not a question of Books in a home but the Brains in the child.

    My father’s only books in our home were self help ones and technical tomes on our one book shelf. My mother, as far as I know, never read a book in her long life almost making it to 96. They raised two children who were book worms and still are and both siblings reached the post doctorate level and one retired as a tenured professor.

    The tyranny of the IQ curve is the limiting factor: that is the take away lesson of La-Griffe-du-Lion.

    Dan Kurt

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Dan Kurt

    “ They raised two children who were book worms.”

    Ok, but surely there’s a slice of youngsters who are capable but won’t trade the tv for books unless their imaginations are activated by books. And the easier that is to accomplish the greater the results. I’ve got to believe having golf clubs at home facilitates taking up golf.

    BTW - what were your first books and where did you find them?

    Replies: @Dan Kurt

  154. Anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    It just doesn't work that way. If you are STEM oriented and you don't get into MIT you go to Carnegie Mellon or Hopkins or you go to your state's flagship university or whatever - you don't switch careers and become a lawyer instead. Nor are there many Ivy's that could be considered rational "safety" schools for MIT. They are not interchangeable places except to someone who knows very little except for some stupid meaningless ranking system. If according to some ranking system in a magazine ("10 Best Cars") a Mazda Miata is #1 and a Ford F150 is the #2 vehicle and the Mazdas are out of stock, does it make ANY sense to get the pickup truck just because it's the next one down on the list? Going to Brown instead of MIT makes about the same amount of sense.

    Law school is not the place for STEM dropouts except in rare cases. Although it taps different centers of the brain, law school and the bar exam are no piece of cake, especially not for someone whose brain is more comfortable manipulating numbers than words, which is the stereotypical E. Asian trait.

    I assume the sock puppet username is because that you don't want to be associated with this stupid trollish remark.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon, @Hibernian

    Although it taps different centers of the brain, law school and the bar exam are no piece of cake, especially not for someone whose brain is more comfortable manipulating numbers than words, which is the stereotypical E. Asian trait.

    Are you sure about this statement about different centers of the brain is true? Law is said to be logical and analytical. Is that not what STEM is? Sailer himself has compared computer coding and law and suggested similarities.

  155. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    Agree that "worker's compensation" type systems are the best solution for these kind of issue. There is a similar system for vaccine claims. The idea is that rather than arguing about fault (did you walk in front of the moving self driving car such that even a human would not have had time to brake?) you just go before a panel and get compensated some reasonable amount for your injury - no "pain and suffering", no punitive damages, no grandstanding in front of a jury about how eeevil and heartless the corporation is. All self-driving car owners have to buy compensation insurance for the injuries that their self-driving car causes (including to themselves). All self-driving cars would have to meet certain standards to be certified to be on the road.

    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous - you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It's going to require some legal reform but the trillion $ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @AnotherDad

    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous – you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It’s going to require some legal reform but the trillion \$ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.

    You are talking about a legal system that dunned anyone involved in the totally legal opioid biz, doctors, manufacturers and pharmacies alike, for well over \$100b. I fully expect any company that gets into self-driving in a big way to be Johns Manville’d to death. You have 3M getting hit with a \$25m damage award for hearing damage to one (1) person.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/us-judge-cuts-55-million-3m-combat-earplug-verdict-by-over-half-2022-05-25/

    Think of all the self-driving accident victims who survive but require constant medical care. A \$100m award here, a \$100m award there, and pretty soon, we’re talking about real money.

  156. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Doesn't make me feel better or worse. Something like half of all people with law degrees don't practice law. It's not for everyone.

    I don't know any professional pilots who changed careers and became lawyers but it wouldn't shock me. One close lawyer friend was an aerospace engineer back in the early 70's. Every time the government cancelled whatever program he was working on he would lose his job (remember "Will the last one leaving Seattle turn out the lights?"

    https://www.historylink.org/Content/Media/Photos/Large/will-the-last-person-leaving-seattle-turn-out-the-lights-billboard-april-1971.jpg

    He got sick of this and went back to law school and became a lawyer.

    But the idea that law is a career for Asians who are too dumb to do STEM is idiotic because it presumes some sort of simple rank ordering system where law is below STEM. Putting law above STEM would be just as stupid. Is an apple higher or lower than an orange?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @John Johnson

    Jack, I did know a pilot who became a cardiologist during a long furlough (it must have been pretty damn long!). He piloted the Airbus 319/320s at the time and showed me his cardiology practice business card.

    I think you may misunderstand Mr. Arbitrary Touch Typist to some degree. I don’t think law school is much easier than engineering or especially any less work. However, the Oriental* parents do think much more highly of engineering, science, and software degrees – in that order, I think – than they do the practice of law. If someone is not good with numbers, he might be best in Law School. It would be a let-down for lots of Chinese Tiger parents if made that switch or decided from the beginning on this.

    One more funny story: This one Chinese kid, back when there weren’t NEARLY as many, had cheated on a test report (very obviously, as he’d copied last semesters’ while the instructor had changed the basic data but not the experiment). He told those who kicked him out of the class that he didn’t care a bit about engineering, but his parents would not let him take over their well-established Chinese restaurant unless he finished his engineering degree, haha!

    You really got to wonder about some parents. “My son’s an engineer!” “What’s his specialty?” “Mu gu gai pan.”

    .

    * I’m not gonna speak for all of freaking Asia who’ve come to the US.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman


    However, the Oriental* parents do think much more highly of engineering, science, and software degrees – in that order, I think – than they do the practice of law.
     
    It is the same with subcon parents.
  157. How do you test for EMPATHY?

  158. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    Agree that "worker's compensation" type systems are the best solution for these kind of issue. There is a similar system for vaccine claims. The idea is that rather than arguing about fault (did you walk in front of the moving self driving car such that even a human would not have had time to brake?) you just go before a panel and get compensated some reasonable amount for your injury - no "pain and suffering", no punitive damages, no grandstanding in front of a jury about how eeevil and heartless the corporation is. All self-driving car owners have to buy compensation insurance for the injuries that their self-driving car causes (including to themselves). All self-driving cars would have to meet certain standards to be certified to be on the road.

    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous - you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It's going to require some legal reform but the trillion $ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @AnotherDad

    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous – you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It’s going to require some legal reform but the trillion \$ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.

    An amazing number of jobs are on the chopping block.

    Said it before, but my son–he and 3 other classmates–built and automated bartender for their spring project. “Bartender (the key word) …” and your drink order is underway.

    Driving/delivery, food prep/serving, cleaning, food processing, assembly … And then there’s all the expert system stuff. You don’t really need a doc, when “DocSoft” is better than any individual doc. All you need is a nurse practioner–or robot!–to describe symptoms, draw blood, observe skin condition or movement limitation etc. etc.

    This is an obvious bullet flying at society which is hugely beneficial but is going to have huge destabilizing–what to do with all these people?–implications.

    Which just make our immigration policies–“more cheap labor!”–even more insane.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @AnotherDad


    You don’t really need a doc, when “DocSoft” is better than any individual doc.
     
    Are you serious?

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  159. @Technite78
    @Jack D


    It’s just that people have this strange attitude toward robots – if a human driver kills someone, it’s no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it’s a news story.

     

    It's also a legal/financial issue. If a human crashes a car and is killed or kills another due to human error, the lawsuit will likely be between the individual parties. If a car under robotic control crashes and kills its occupants, or any others... it's likely the company that produced the car and/or the software will be party to a (very large) lawsuit. That's already the case for common carriers (i.e. airlines, bus companies, etc.), so I'd guess the fatality rate of self-driving cars would have to be closer to that of airline travel than of private cars to avoid the huge liability.

    Replies: @Recently Based, @AnotherDad, @Jim Don Bob

    I programmed computers for many years and there is NFW I am getting in a self driving car.

    • Agree: Adam Smith, Gamecock
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jim Don Bob


    I programmed computers for many years and there is NFW I am getting in a self driving car.
     
    Aren’t airplanes highly automated these days? What are your thoughts on flying?

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @Adam Smith
    @Jim Don Bob

    Self driving cars are the dumbest idea ever.

  160. @Truth
    @Malcolm X-Lax


    There’s an episode of the Jeffersons
     

    Smash cut to James and Florida

     

    Im glad there was no "black television" section on that SAT you claim to have aced.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Malcolm X-Lax

    In my defense, all black people kind of look the same to me. And what’s worse is I spent the whole episode waiting to see what Raj, Dwayne and Rerun were up to.

  161. @petit bourgeois
    @Jack D

    I met John McWhorter in 2002 during his office hours at UC Berkeley when he was a linguistics professor and I was a lowly undergrad. A very smart man. We had a lengthy discussion about how chewing tobacco influenced the southern drawl.

    He's not going to come out and say that negros are lower IQ than Whites. He's not going to shit where he eats. He needs a paycheck, just like the rest of us. He's not an idiot.

    Replies: @Curle

    “ We had a lengthy discussion about how chewing tobacco influenced the southern drawl.”

    There’s still a drawl and a lot less chewing tobacco. What was his theory?

  162. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Doesn't make me feel better or worse. Something like half of all people with law degrees don't practice law. It's not for everyone.

    I don't know any professional pilots who changed careers and became lawyers but it wouldn't shock me. One close lawyer friend was an aerospace engineer back in the early 70's. Every time the government cancelled whatever program he was working on he would lose his job (remember "Will the last one leaving Seattle turn out the lights?"

    https://www.historylink.org/Content/Media/Photos/Large/will-the-last-person-leaving-seattle-turn-out-the-lights-billboard-april-1971.jpg

    He got sick of this and went back to law school and became a lawyer.

    But the idea that law is a career for Asians who are too dumb to do STEM is idiotic because it presumes some sort of simple rank ordering system where law is below STEM. Putting law above STEM would be just as stupid. Is an apple higher or lower than an orange?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @John Johnson

    Lawyers actually have high rates of depression and suicide. There are also too many of them and most are mediocre. The attorney in The Simpsons that takes side jobs makes fun of that.

    I could have gone into law but I find the entire concept of Western justice to be disgusting.

    More money = better lawyer available to knowingly lie for you.

    Strong case + poor = well good luck with your public attorney. He sucks and really doesn’t care if you win because he gets paid either way.

    So the moral and poor are at a disadvantage compared to the wealthy and immoral.

    Dumb system.

    If that isn’t bad enough the whole system is skewed with race denial. Prosecutors get a wink and a nod to not lock up too many Blacks this year. Jails are full.

  163. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Truth

    Whaddya' mean, Truth? You never heard of James and Florida Jefferson, moving on up to the East Side, keeping their heads above water? "It's the big one, Wheezy!"

    If it were Malcolm X-Lax (one of my favorite handles of all time) and Hussein Øb☭ma in the final round of Jeopardy, the topic being "1970s Black TV shows", I'd have to bet on Alex Trebeck leaving with the most money.

    Replies: @Curle

    Good bet. Hawaiian kids spend their free time outdoors.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Curle

    Kenyans, too, I'm guessing.


    Curle, that was a joke about the ex-President confusing character George of The Jeffersons and Fred Sanford of Sanford and Son. He made some remark about "I'm comin', Wheezy!", haha. Now, I think it's funny, mind you, but confusing the 2 characters (just 2 funny black guys - they all look the same) put a damper on Øb☭ma's being authentically black.

  164. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Jack, I did know a pilot who became a cardiologist during a long furlough (it must have been pretty damn long!). He piloted the Airbus 319/320s at the time and showed me his cardiology practice business card.

    I think you may misunderstand Mr. Arbitrary Touch Typist to some degree. I don't think law school is much easier than engineering or especially any less work. However, the Oriental* parents do think much more highly of engineering, science, and software degrees - in that order, I think - than they do the practice of law. If someone is not good with numbers, he might be best in Law School. It would be a let-down for lots of Chinese Tiger parents if made that switch or decided from the beginning on this.

    One more funny story: This one Chinese kid, back when there weren't NEARLY as many, had cheated on a test report (very obviously, as he'd copied last semesters' while the instructor had changed the basic data but not the experiment). He told those who kicked him out of the class that he didn't care a bit about engineering, but his parents would not let him take over their well-established Chinese restaurant unless he finished his engineering degree, haha!

    You really got to wonder about some parents. "My son's an engineer!" "What's his specialty?" "Mu gu gai pan."

    .

    * I'm not gonna speak for all of freaking Asia who've come to the US.

    Replies: @anonymous

    However, the Oriental* parents do think much more highly of engineering, science, and software degrees – in that order, I think – than they do the practice of law.

    It is the same with subcon parents.

  165. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    Once you get past the legal roadblock, the benefits to the economy are enormous – you could sit in back and do work while your car drives you to work. Trucking companies save billions on drivers. Etc. It’s going to require some legal reform but the trillion $ bill in the road is too rich to leave lying there.
     
    An amazing number of jobs are on the chopping block.

    Said it before, but my son--he and 3 other classmates--built and automated bartender for their spring project. "Bartender (the key word) ..." and your drink order is underway.

    Driving/delivery, food prep/serving, cleaning, food processing, assembly ... And then there's all the expert system stuff. You don't really need a doc, when "DocSoft" is better than any individual doc. All you need is a nurse practioner--or robot!--to describe symptoms, draw blood, observe skin condition or movement limitation etc. etc.

    This is an obvious bullet flying at society which is hugely beneficial but is going to have huge destabilizing--what to do with all these people?--implications.

    Which just make our immigration policies--"more cheap labor!"--even more insane.

    Replies: @anonymous

    You don’t really need a doc, when “DocSoft” is better than any individual doc.

    Are you serious?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @anonymous



    You don’t really need a doc, when “DocSoft” is better than any individual doc.
     
    Are you serious?
     
    Of course I'm serious.

    What doctors do--in large part, surgeons aside--is essentially follow a decision tree. This symptom, that symptom, this situation, then these possible issues. Do tests if need be to keep narrowing it down ... until you have a diagnosis. Then prescribe the recommended therapy. It's essentially like same as the qualitive analysis you did in HS chemistry. (With some quantitative data--how much did it hurt?, what was the number in this blood test? as part of the "qualitative" decision tree.) With some therapy (or just "rest up and hope it gets better") to "fix" your issue at the end.

    But here's the deal, no individual doctor can possibly master all the knowledge that doctors (and other researchers have accumulated). Even if they were brilliant ... it's too much information and they just will not have the experience. That's why you have specialists, and specialists within specialties ... And even those people ... end up looking stuff up.

    All that knowledge--the "if this then order these tests and if this count is high and that's low then it's likely X or Y or Z and you can test for that with this or try this therapy and see if it works"--can quite straightforwardly be coded up into an expert system. Which is ... much, much cheaper.
  166. @Jack D
    @Technite78


    It’s possible that technology will improve fast enough so that the automation-caused accidents will be less numerous than the human-caused accidents that they eliminate…
     
    That's probably true already. If we were to replace all of the drivers in America with the best self-driving cars available (not Tesla's "self-driving" cruise control but the actual self drivers from Waymo, Cruise, etc.) tomorrow the number of auto accidents and deaths would surely go down - no more drunk drivers, crazy drivers, etc. In order to reduce traffic deaths, self driving tech doesn't have to be (and will never be) perfect, it just has to be better than human drivers. It's just that people have this strange attitude toward robots - if a human driver kills someone, it's no big deal, happens every day (actually dozens of times every day) but if a self-driving vehicle has a fender bender it's a news story.

    Replies: @Technite78, @Hibernian

    Self driving cars have already caused disasters. How will they deal with pedestrians and bicyclists in urban areas who have no regard for their own safety?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Hibernian


    Self driving cars have already caused disasters. How will they deal with pedestrians and bicyclists in urban areas who have no regard for their own safety?
     
    So what?

    Human drivers cause disasters all the time. They--on average--kill 100+ people a day.

    Human drivers have much slower reaction times. Generally, it takes about 1/2 second for people to react to what they figure out.

    Right now good drivers--with lots of experience and great instincts who keep their eyes on the road--are probably better a figuring out what's going on up ahead then self-driving systems. (I've dodged several likely collisions when I sussed out that some other driver was hinky, or distracted, oblivious, drunk and ready to do some stupid shit.) But even good drivers don't have their "high beams" on all the time. They are tired, distracted and miss stuff.

    And that's good drivers ... then we get to the typical drivers who are
    -- stuffing their face (because god knows Americans are starving
    -- messing with the kids in the back seat
    -- playing with the heater or the radio
    -- looking at their passenger instead of talking to the windshield and keeping their eyes on the road
    and most of all
    -- screwing with their phone
    or, of course,
    -- drunk

    Self-driving systems will keep getting better. Humans ... not so much.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Jack D

  167. @Jack D
    @Lbbhjgddfddfdd

    It just doesn't work that way. If you are STEM oriented and you don't get into MIT you go to Carnegie Mellon or Hopkins or you go to your state's flagship university or whatever - you don't switch careers and become a lawyer instead. Nor are there many Ivy's that could be considered rational "safety" schools for MIT. They are not interchangeable places except to someone who knows very little except for some stupid meaningless ranking system. If according to some ranking system in a magazine ("10 Best Cars") a Mazda Miata is #1 and a Ford F150 is the #2 vehicle and the Mazdas are out of stock, does it make ANY sense to get the pickup truck just because it's the next one down on the list? Going to Brown instead of MIT makes about the same amount of sense.

    Law school is not the place for STEM dropouts except in rare cases. Although it taps different centers of the brain, law school and the bar exam are no piece of cake, especially not for someone whose brain is more comfortable manipulating numbers than words, which is the stereotypical E. Asian trait.

    I assume the sock puppet username is because that you don't want to be associated with this stupid trollish remark.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Anon, @Hibernian

    The Ivy League schools including Harvard all have engineering programs, and they are great at math, chemistry, and physics.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hibernian

    It's true that they have engineering but generally speaking they are not the top engineering schools - none of them are in the t0p 10 of the US News rankings (as dubious as they are). The Ivy League means nothing in engineering.

  168. @Curle
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Good bet. Hawaiian kids spend their free time outdoors.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Kenyans, too, I’m guessing.

    Curle, that was a joke about the ex-President confusing character George of The Jeffersons and Fred Sanford of Sanford and Son. He made some remark about “I’m comin’, Wheezy!”, haha. Now, I think it’s funny, mind you, but confusing the 2 characters (just 2 funny black guys – they all look the same) put a damper on Øb☭ma’s being authentically black.

    • Agree: Curle
  169. “It’s 2022, not 1967 the last year that employers and occupational licensers were allowed to consider aptitude and competency in hiring and granting licenses.”

    Citation?

  170. @Dan Kurt
    @Nervous in Stalingrad

    RE: "McWhorter thinks the getting blacks to put more books in the home"

    "Are we now faced with the unbooked?" Nervous in Stalingrad

    It is not a question of Books in a home but the Brains in the child.

    My father's only books in our home were self help ones and technical tomes on our one book shelf. My mother, as far as I know, never read a book in her long life almost making it to 96. They raised two children who were book worms and still are and both siblings reached the post doctorate level and one retired as a tenured professor.

    The tyranny of the IQ curve is the limiting factor: that is the take away lesson of La-Griffe-du-Lion.

    Dan Kurt

    Replies: @Curle

    “ They raised two children who were book worms.”

    Ok, but surely there’s a slice of youngsters who are capable but won’t trade the tv for books unless their imaginations are activated by books. And the easier that is to accomplish the greater the results. I’ve got to believe having golf clubs at home facilitates taking up golf.

    BTW – what were your first books and where did you find them?

    • Replies: @Dan Kurt
    @Curle

    RE: "BTW – what were your first books and where did you find them?" Curle

    Sophomore year, age 14, had just stopped carrying news papers so among other things had time after high school to go to a downtown bookstore. While browsing there saw a cover on a paperback and was intrigued. Bought the book and was hooked. The book was The Pawns of Null-A by A.E. Van Vogt. Soon afterwards read all that I could find of Van Vogt and myriads of other authors. Most of the books I read were purchased at a used book store run by an old woman (to me) who got to know me and who protected me from buying smut. I once picked up a copy of The Fountainhead that had a risqué cover and she declined to sell it to me saying that I should wait until I was an upperclassman in college before tackling anything by its author. Later in life I read that authoress' entire oeuvre and actually saw her in person giving her last speech in public. Now at my advanced age, I do little but read but my interests tend to be obscure science topics and offbeat historical books. After years of searching I finally got my hands on Where Troy Once Stood. My one child, a genus level math adept with a Ph.D., is a staff engineer for an aerospace corporation. He hardly reads books at all, perhaps one a year and he grew up literally buried in books, there were so many littering our home of all kinds and sizes.

    Dan Kurt

  171. @Calvin Hobbes
    @JimDandy


    What percentage of blacks have an IQ that is 75 or lower?
     
    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 85 and SD 15, that’s 2/3 of an SD below the mean, so very close to 25%.

    https://z-scoretable.com/

    Replies: @JimDandy

    Thank you and goddamned you, you unabashed racist who says that 1 out of 4 African Americans is basically retarded.

  172. @Jim Don Bob
    @Technite78

    I programmed computers for many years and there is NFW I am getting in a self driving car.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Adam Smith

    I programmed computers for many years and there is NFW I am getting in a self driving car.

    Aren’t airplanes highly automated these days? What are your thoughts on flying?

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Anonymous

    I like most things about the modern world, but I despise flying and it would not bother me a bit if I never got on another airplane. The only things good about it is that there are a lot of nice looking women in airports, and it is fast once you get off the ground. Everything else about it blows dead dogs.

    That said, it is ridiculously cheap. I got a fare from Pittsburgh to Providence three days in advance for $107. I would pay more in gas. Of course a carry on bag was an extra $30 and a checked bag another $30 but that wasn't me.

    But the 9:30 flight was delayed until 11:30 so I missed my 11:30 connection at IAD. The people at American kindly put me on another airline's Chicago flight to connect to a RI flight at 2:30. That flight was late and I had to hustle in Chicago to get on the RI flight as the last one to board. I made some crack to the gate crew that I was in Group 10 to board (there are only 9) and they kindly put me in the exit row. Then we sat on the ground for an hour while they found some guy to put some tape on the wing, or something.

    Bottom line is that I got to RI at 6:30 instead of 2:30. Picked up my car and headed west again for 600 miles overnight arriving 4:45 AM. The last 100 miles I was seeing things on the PA turnpike that I knew were not there.

    Back to self driving cars. I do not think they are comparable to flying. Airplanes are quite automated as you say, but they have two experienced guys monitoring the automation, not somebody watching porn on his phone. They also have this thing called air traffic control which keeps planes separated unlike car traffic. It's been years since there has been an airline fatality in the US.

  173. @Jim Don Bob
    @Technite78

    I programmed computers for many years and there is NFW I am getting in a self driving car.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Adam Smith

    Self driving cars are the dumbest idea ever.

  174. @anonymous
    @AnotherDad


    You don’t really need a doc, when “DocSoft” is better than any individual doc.
     
    Are you serious?

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    You don’t really need a doc, when “DocSoft” is better than any individual doc.

    Are you serious?

    Of course I’m serious.

    What doctors do–in large part, surgeons aside–is essentially follow a decision tree. This symptom, that symptom, this situation, then these possible issues. Do tests if need be to keep narrowing it down … until you have a diagnosis. Then prescribe the recommended therapy. It’s essentially like same as the qualitive analysis you did in HS chemistry. (With some quantitative data–how much did it hurt?, what was the number in this blood test? as part of the “qualitative” decision tree.) With some therapy (or just “rest up and hope it gets better”) to “fix” your issue at the end.

    But here’s the deal, no individual doctor can possibly master all the knowledge that doctors (and other researchers have accumulated). Even if they were brilliant … it’s too much information and they just will not have the experience. That’s why you have specialists, and specialists within specialties … And even those people … end up looking stuff up.

    All that knowledge–the “if this then order these tests and if this count is high and that’s low then it’s likely X or Y or Z and you can test for that with this or try this therapy and see if it works”–can quite straightforwardly be coded up into an expert system. Which is … much, much cheaper.

  175. @Hibernian
    @Jack D

    Self driving cars have already caused disasters. How will they deal with pedestrians and bicyclists in urban areas who have no regard for their own safety?

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Self driving cars have already caused disasters. How will they deal with pedestrians and bicyclists in urban areas who have no regard for their own safety?

    So what?

    Human drivers cause disasters all the time. They–on average–kill 100+ people a day.

    Human drivers have much slower reaction times. Generally, it takes about 1/2 second for people to react to what they figure out.

    Right now good drivers–with lots of experience and great instincts who keep their eyes on the road–are probably better a figuring out what’s going on up ahead then self-driving systems. (I’ve dodged several likely collisions when I sussed out that some other driver was hinky, or distracted, oblivious, drunk and ready to do some stupid shit.) But even good drivers don’t have their “high beams” on all the time. They are tired, distracted and miss stuff.

    And that’s good drivers … then we get to the typical drivers who are
    — stuffing their face (because god knows Americans are starving
    — messing with the kids in the back seat
    — playing with the heater or the radio
    — looking at their passenger instead of talking to the windshield and keeping their eyes on the road
    and most of all
    — screwing with their phone
    or, of course,
    — drunk

    Self-driving systems will keep getting better. Humans … not so much.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    The amusing thing is that everyone thinks of themselves as an "above average" driver - it's the other clowns that are the problem. Have you ever met anyone who admitted to being a below average driver?

    The funny thing is that self driving cars have a very cautious driving style. They don't speed. They prefer to make right turns and will often route themselves with 3 right turns in order to avoid 1 left.

    Speaking of high beams, I have notice a new thing, where oncoming drivers no longer dip their high beams. Plus the modern type of lights are blinding.

    Also I think the cops have stopped pulling people over for missing headlights so every time I go out at night I see at least 1 car (often several) with a burned out headlight.

    Most cars just sit parked 95% of the time which is a huge amount of wasted capital. If you could summon a self driving car at a scheduled time (or on 10 minutes notice) you might be able to get by with only 1 car or none. Also think of people who are older, limited vision, etc. and can't drive anymore. Self-driving would be life changing for them, give them back their independence, maybe allow them to stay in their homes, etc.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @Midnights

    , @Jack D
    @AnotherDad


    Self-driving systems will keep getting better.
     
    BTW, they are pretty good already. A lot of people think that driverless car will exist at some time in the future, but they exist right now, today. And not out in some desert - they are driving on the busy streets of San Francisco:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBMghzcrzY

    Replies: @Hibernian

  176. @Curle
    @Dan Kurt

    “ They raised two children who were book worms.”

    Ok, but surely there’s a slice of youngsters who are capable but won’t trade the tv for books unless their imaginations are activated by books. And the easier that is to accomplish the greater the results. I’ve got to believe having golf clubs at home facilitates taking up golf.

    BTW - what were your first books and where did you find them?

    Replies: @Dan Kurt

    RE: “BTW – what were your first books and where did you find them?” Curle

    Sophomore year, age 14, had just stopped carrying news papers so among other things had time after high school to go to a downtown bookstore. While browsing there saw a cover on a paperback and was intrigued. Bought the book and was hooked. The book was The Pawns of Null-A by A.E. Van Vogt. Soon afterwards read all that I could find of Van Vogt and myriads of other authors. Most of the books I read were purchased at a used book store run by an old woman (to me) who got to know me and who protected me from buying smut. I once picked up a copy of The Fountainhead that had a risqué cover and she declined to sell it to me saying that I should wait until I was an upperclassman in college before tackling anything by its author. Later in life I read that authoress’ entire oeuvre and actually saw her in person giving her last speech in public. Now at my advanced age, I do little but read but my interests tend to be obscure science topics and offbeat historical books. After years of searching I finally got my hands on Where Troy Once Stood. My one child, a genus level math adept with a Ph.D., is a staff engineer for an aerospace corporation. He hardly reads books at all, perhaps one a year and he grew up literally buried in books, there were so many littering our home of all kinds and sizes.

    Dan Kurt

  177. The relative cohorts of test takers should have some self-selection bias as others above have hinted at.

    A minus 1 SD white male usually has better career options than social worker, ones better suited to exploit his white privilege.

    For many minorities, a jig as a government-employed social worker is as aspirational career move, even for +1 SD individuals.

    Still, the statistics match up so well that maybe I’m wrong.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Somsel


    A minus 1 SD white male usually has better career options than social worker, ones better suited to exploit his white privilege.
     
    Can you give an example of a good, white privileged career for an 85 IQ white male?

    Replies: @Somsel

  178. @Hibernian
    @Jack D

    The Ivy League schools including Harvard all have engineering programs, and they are great at math, chemistry, and physics.

    Replies: @Jack D

    It’s true that they have engineering but generally speaking they are not the top engineering schools – none of them are in the t0p 10 of the US News rankings (as dubious as they are). The Ivy League means nothing in engineering.

  179. @Somsel
    The relative cohorts of test takers should have some self-selection bias as others above have hinted at.

    A minus 1 SD white male usually has better career options than social worker, ones better suited to exploit his white privilege.

    For many minorities, a jig as a government-employed social worker is as aspirational career move, even for +1 SD individuals.

    Still, the statistics match up so well that maybe I'm wrong.

    Replies: @Jack D

    A minus 1 SD white male usually has better career options than social worker, ones better suited to exploit his white privilege.

    Can you give an example of a good, white privileged career for an 85 IQ white male?

    • Replies: @Somsel
    @Jack D

    Beat cop...

    as many of my Irish ancestors proved. I know I'd have preferred the privilege of beating some sense into a punk with a night stick than having to give him the talking cure.

    BTW, "white privilege" was used ironically.

  180. @AnotherDad
    @Hibernian


    Self driving cars have already caused disasters. How will they deal with pedestrians and bicyclists in urban areas who have no regard for their own safety?
     
    So what?

    Human drivers cause disasters all the time. They--on average--kill 100+ people a day.

    Human drivers have much slower reaction times. Generally, it takes about 1/2 second for people to react to what they figure out.

    Right now good drivers--with lots of experience and great instincts who keep their eyes on the road--are probably better a figuring out what's going on up ahead then self-driving systems. (I've dodged several likely collisions when I sussed out that some other driver was hinky, or distracted, oblivious, drunk and ready to do some stupid shit.) But even good drivers don't have their "high beams" on all the time. They are tired, distracted and miss stuff.

    And that's good drivers ... then we get to the typical drivers who are
    -- stuffing their face (because god knows Americans are starving
    -- messing with the kids in the back seat
    -- playing with the heater or the radio
    -- looking at their passenger instead of talking to the windshield and keeping their eyes on the road
    and most of all
    -- screwing with their phone
    or, of course,
    -- drunk

    Self-driving systems will keep getting better. Humans ... not so much.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Jack D

    The amusing thing is that everyone thinks of themselves as an “above average” driver – it’s the other clowns that are the problem. Have you ever met anyone who admitted to being a below average driver?

    The funny thing is that self driving cars have a very cautious driving style. They don’t speed. They prefer to make right turns and will often route themselves with 3 right turns in order to avoid 1 left.

    Speaking of high beams, I have notice a new thing, where oncoming drivers no longer dip their high beams. Plus the modern type of lights are blinding.

    Also I think the cops have stopped pulling people over for missing headlights so every time I go out at night I see at least 1 car (often several) with a burned out headlight.

    Most cars just sit parked 95% of the time which is a huge amount of wasted capital. If you could summon a self driving car at a scheduled time (or on 10 minutes notice) you might be able to get by with only 1 car or none. Also think of people who are older, limited vision, etc. and can’t drive anymore. Self-driving would be life changing for them, give them back their independence, maybe allow them to stay in their homes, etc.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Jack D


    Speaking of high beams, I have notice a new thing, where oncoming drivers no longer dip their high beams. Plus the modern type of lights are blinding.
     
    Maybe it's time to take a look at Edwin Land's anti-glare polarized headlight scheme which fell flat on it's face when proposed. Since everything optic is plastic now, maybe it wouldn't be expensive to manufacture?

    https://youtu.be/9SNhmdDDKeA?t=89
    [1:29]
    , @Midnights
    @Jack D

    “anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac”

    George Carlin

  181. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    The amusing thing is that everyone thinks of themselves as an "above average" driver - it's the other clowns that are the problem. Have you ever met anyone who admitted to being a below average driver?

    The funny thing is that self driving cars have a very cautious driving style. They don't speed. They prefer to make right turns and will often route themselves with 3 right turns in order to avoid 1 left.

    Speaking of high beams, I have notice a new thing, where oncoming drivers no longer dip their high beams. Plus the modern type of lights are blinding.

    Also I think the cops have stopped pulling people over for missing headlights so every time I go out at night I see at least 1 car (often several) with a burned out headlight.

    Most cars just sit parked 95% of the time which is a huge amount of wasted capital. If you could summon a self driving car at a scheduled time (or on 10 minutes notice) you might be able to get by with only 1 car or none. Also think of people who are older, limited vision, etc. and can't drive anymore. Self-driving would be life changing for them, give them back their independence, maybe allow them to stay in their homes, etc.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @Midnights

    Speaking of high beams, I have notice a new thing, where oncoming drivers no longer dip their high beams. Plus the modern type of lights are blinding.

    Maybe it’s time to take a look at Edwin Land’s anti-glare polarized headlight scheme which fell flat on it’s face when proposed. Since everything optic is plastic now, maybe it wouldn’t be expensive to manufacture?

    [1:29]

  182. @AnotherDad
    @Hibernian


    Self driving cars have already caused disasters. How will they deal with pedestrians and bicyclists in urban areas who have no regard for their own safety?
     
    So what?

    Human drivers cause disasters all the time. They--on average--kill 100+ people a day.

    Human drivers have much slower reaction times. Generally, it takes about 1/2 second for people to react to what they figure out.

    Right now good drivers--with lots of experience and great instincts who keep their eyes on the road--are probably better a figuring out what's going on up ahead then self-driving systems. (I've dodged several likely collisions when I sussed out that some other driver was hinky, or distracted, oblivious, drunk and ready to do some stupid shit.) But even good drivers don't have their "high beams" on all the time. They are tired, distracted and miss stuff.

    And that's good drivers ... then we get to the typical drivers who are
    -- stuffing their face (because god knows Americans are starving
    -- messing with the kids in the back seat
    -- playing with the heater or the radio
    -- looking at their passenger instead of talking to the windshield and keeping their eyes on the road
    and most of all
    -- screwing with their phone
    or, of course,
    -- drunk

    Self-driving systems will keep getting better. Humans ... not so much.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Jack D

    Self-driving systems will keep getting better.

    BTW, they are pretty good already. A lot of people think that driverless car will exist at some time in the future, but they exist right now, today. And not out in some desert – they are driving on the busy streets of San Francisco:

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Jack D

    Maintenance is another issue. Maintenance will be up to the owner. How well will owners maintain a self driving car with electronics like those of a fighter plane? Uber and Lyft might maintain fleets of self driving taxis, if they switch to the model of a company oned fleet.

  183. @Anonymous
    @Jim Don Bob


    I programmed computers for many years and there is NFW I am getting in a self driving car.
     
    Aren’t airplanes highly automated these days? What are your thoughts on flying?

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    I like most things about the modern world, but I despise flying and it would not bother me a bit if I never got on another airplane. The only things good about it is that there are a lot of nice looking women in airports, and it is fast once you get off the ground. Everything else about it blows dead dogs.

    That said, it is ridiculously cheap. I got a fare from Pittsburgh to Providence three days in advance for \$107. I would pay more in gas. Of course a carry on bag was an extra \$30 and a checked bag another \$30 but that wasn’t me.

    But the 9:30 flight was delayed until 11:30 so I missed my 11:30 connection at IAD. The people at American kindly put me on another airline’s Chicago flight to connect to a RI flight at 2:30. That flight was late and I had to hustle in Chicago to get on the RI flight as the last one to board. I made some crack to the gate crew that I was in Group 10 to board (there are only 9) and they kindly put me in the exit row. Then we sat on the ground for an hour while they found some guy to put some tape on the wing, or something.

    Bottom line is that I got to RI at 6:30 instead of 2:30. Picked up my car and headed west again for 600 miles overnight arriving 4:45 AM. The last 100 miles I was seeing things on the PA turnpike that I knew were not there.

    Back to self driving cars. I do not think they are comparable to flying. Airplanes are quite automated as you say, but they have two experienced guys monitoring the automation, not somebody watching porn on his phone. They also have this thing called air traffic control which keeps planes separated unlike car traffic. It’s been years since there has been an airline fatality in the US.

  184. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    The amusing thing is that everyone thinks of themselves as an "above average" driver - it's the other clowns that are the problem. Have you ever met anyone who admitted to being a below average driver?

    The funny thing is that self driving cars have a very cautious driving style. They don't speed. They prefer to make right turns and will often route themselves with 3 right turns in order to avoid 1 left.

    Speaking of high beams, I have notice a new thing, where oncoming drivers no longer dip their high beams. Plus the modern type of lights are blinding.

    Also I think the cops have stopped pulling people over for missing headlights so every time I go out at night I see at least 1 car (often several) with a burned out headlight.

    Most cars just sit parked 95% of the time which is a huge amount of wasted capital. If you could summon a self driving car at a scheduled time (or on 10 minutes notice) you might be able to get by with only 1 car or none. Also think of people who are older, limited vision, etc. and can't drive anymore. Self-driving would be life changing for them, give them back their independence, maybe allow them to stay in their homes, etc.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @Midnights

    “anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac”

    George Carlin

  185. @MEH 0910

    This may be paywalled, but John McWhorter wrote a newsletter for the New York Times a week ago decrying the watering down of the credentialing test for social workers:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/opinion/racism-test.html
     
    Archived link (to bypass paywall): https://archive.ph/DkD81

    https://twitter.com/JohnHMcWhorter/status/1564197801067675649
    https://twitter.com/DrIbram/status/1564052709124317185
    https://twitter.com/DrIbram/status/1564053007825883143
    https://twitter.com/DrIbram/status/1564053362026467329
    https://twitter.com/DrIbram/status/1564628241155072003

    https://twitter.com/JohnHMcWhorter/status/1564741812715134978

    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1565741468441948160

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    John McWhorter and Ibram X. Kendi’s Twitter Fight | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show

    Sep 6, 2022

    Glenn Loury and John McWhorter discuss John’s contentious online exchange with the Boston University professor and racial justice advocate.

    Transcript of this clip at Glenn Loury’s Substack:

    https://glennloury.substack.com/p/john-takes-on-ibram-x-kendi

  186. Airbus has a history of catastrophic accidents caused by computer programming.

    I too programmed computers for many years. If I were programming automatic driving systems, I’d let ’em drive within parameters I set. I recognize limitations and know how to get things to work.

    I’d never let an autodriving car drive for me. Two reasons. I like driving. That’s why I drive a 2019 GT350R. Second reason . . . all them other computer people I worked with. 90% were fakers; couldn’t program \$#|+. No way I’d trust them with my life.

    • Thanks: Hibernian
  187. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad


    Self-driving systems will keep getting better.
     
    BTW, they are pretty good already. A lot of people think that driverless car will exist at some time in the future, but they exist right now, today. And not out in some desert - they are driving on the busy streets of San Francisco:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBMghzcrzY

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Maintenance is another issue. Maintenance will be up to the owner. How well will owners maintain a self driving car with electronics like those of a fighter plane? Uber and Lyft might maintain fleets of self driving taxis, if they switch to the model of a company oned fleet.

  188. @Jack D
    @Somsel


    A minus 1 SD white male usually has better career options than social worker, ones better suited to exploit his white privilege.
     
    Can you give an example of a good, white privileged career for an 85 IQ white male?

    Replies: @Somsel

    Beat cop…

    as many of my Irish ancestors proved. I know I’d have preferred the privilege of beating some sense into a punk with a night stick than having to give him the talking cure.

    BTW, “white privilege” was used ironically.

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