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Jury Dings Oberlin $44 Million for Anti-White Libel Against a Neighborhood Bakery
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On top of the $11 million in compensatory damages awarded earlier, a jury today piled on triple punitive damages. From the Toledo Blade:

Jury hits Oberlin College with a total of $44.2 million in damages

SAMMY WESTFALL
KUN 13, 2019 12:36 PM

ELYRIA, Ohio — The city of Oberlin is quiet this time of year – with its population of 6,800 seeing ebbs and flows in tune with the Oberlin College school year.

But even mid-summer, the nation has been feeling reverberations from the small city, now home to a landmark legal case that awarded family-run Gibson’s Bakery a total of $44.2 million – comprising punitive damages set at $33.2 million on top of the existing $11 million compensatory award — against Oberlin College on Thursday. The jury also awarded an undetermined amount in attorney’s fees. …

The lawsuit stems from an incident on Nov. 9, 2016 in which a black Oberlin student was accused of attempting to shoplift wine from Gibson’s. Suspecting the student of shoplifting, an employee and grandson of the store’s owner, who is white, followed the student out, leading to a physical altercation in front of the store.

Protests erupted on campus in the days following the incident, with students claiming that the robbery charge and subsequent conflict were racially motivated, as well as claiming a history of racial profiling in the store.

The students originally claimed their arrests were racially motivated but later backtracked on those claims and pleaded guilty to misdemeanors in court. …

The jury found the college and its dean of students guilty for libel of both David and Allyn Gibson, as well as their bakery. The jury found only the college guilty of inflicting emotional distress on both Gibson’s and only Ms. Raimondo responsible for tortious interference of business relationships. …

Gibson attorneys on Wednesday underscored that punitive damages are meant to discourage not only Oberlin, but any other institution from committing similar acts. …

When Judge John Milarldi instructed the jury, he reminded them that they did not need to assess any punitive damages against the defendants, but could only do so if the plaintiffs met the burden to prove by “clear and convincing evidence” that Oberlin acted with “actual malice” – defined as a state of mind characterized by “hatred, ill will, or spirit of revenge” or a conscious disregard of the rights and safety of others that has a great probability of causing substantial harm. Actual malice can also be proof that Oberlin “knowingly authorized, participated in, or ratified the actions or omissions of an employee that demonstrated malice.”

In March 2013, I wrote about an earlier hysterical hate hoax at Oberlin in which the sight of a woman wearing a white blanket against the late winter cold was hyped up into a KKK assault on the campus of the (very) liberal arts college:

KKK Is the New UFO

 
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  1. Be still my heart…

    • Agree: vinteuil
  2. Easter tradition in Spain:

    Triggered!

    • LOL: 95Theses, TWS
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8-3SFbXkAAYIaU.png
    , @Reg Cæsar
    I'm shocked! Girls are allowed to wear those too?

    Nothing is sacred anymore.
    , @Svigor
    Mine better:

    https://pics.me.me/perfect-women-dont-exi-starecat-com-36639661.png
  3. Well, that jury was sure loaded for bear. Oberlin will appeal, of course. Their pockets are deep enough that they’ll keep appealing until they get the ‘justice’ they want. Incompetent administrators must be protected at all costs!

    In other news, if you use Google to search for yesterday’s Memphis riots, Google returns results from the riot of 1866, back when white ppl misbehaved.

    • Replies: @anon
    This sets the stage for a significant settlement. My guess anyway. $8 million sounds about right. Definitely over $5 million.

    Oberlin does have an Umbrella liability policy, although the insurer has stated it intends to contest due to an exclusion for intentional torts. Insurer's are on the hook for defense costs generally. Plus the insurer could lose. We also don't know the policy limits.

    In theory, they could litigate indefinitely. But the insurer and the university would find it difficult to live with the uncertainty of the large verdict hanging over their heads.

    The putative damages will likely be reduced.

    But the headline verdict is out there. Even if the insurer pays most of it, or all of it, they will be getting a hefty premium increase their next renewal. All similar Colleges are likely to see a bump in premium.

    This is all speculative, of course. But the UVA rape on campus libel suits got settled fairly quickly. A couple of years being quick with lawsuits.

    This is a landmark case, and a real victory. Institutions with deep pockets will have to distance themselves from indiscriminate charges of racism.
  4. wasn’t this because the oberlin administration ran their mouths after the court had ruled against them, but before awarding the plaintiff?

    oberlin’s reply that oh my gosh, we’re just a small liberal arts college and how in the world could we afford to pay 44 million, was extra funny.

    also humorous was how their insurance company said nope, your policy doesn’t cover this. we ain’t paying.

    has anybody else been on the oberlin campus? i was, decades ago. amazing how far the enemy has advanced since then. now rinky dink oberlin is attacking bakers.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    "... oberlin’s reply that oh my gosh, we’re just a small liberal arts college and how in the world could we afford to pay 44 million, was extra funny."
     
    Did anyone tell them they could take out loans to cover that? You know, non-recourse loans, not the non-dischargeable recourse types their slaves have to take out for the privilege of indoctrination.
    , @John Henry

    wasn’t this because the oberlin administration ran their mouths after the court had ruled against them, but before awarding the plaintiff?
     
    No, the judge specifically disallowed the use of the email to Oberlin alumni you are referring to. Because it was not used (since it did not exist) during the trial. However, some of the content was elicited from Oberlin witnesses on the stand during the hearing on punitive damages.

    A commentator suggested that perhaps allowing use of the email may have given an opening for Oberlin to include its use to the detriment of the plaintiffs in the appeal that will surely come. So... maybe a good thing. And as we now know, unnecessary.

  5. Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that’s led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    Could you explain this to me more? Are there any links to good article on this phenomenon?
    , @Polynikes
    I find it hard to believe they have anybody worth a crap doing anything there. I was a div 3 level athlete twenty years ago looking for schools. Even back then it was known they were liberal loon balls who had no money (ie no "financial aid"), and nobody wanted to go there.


    Maybe they've capitalized on the last decade's focus on batshit insane diversity liberalism (of which they were well ahead of the curve) that's swept the nation and got some "Soros money?"
    , @Redneck farmer
    They are if you work at the casino.
    , @Daniel H
    >>Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    Agree 100%, yet too many of our fellows believe that what is good for Citibank is good for the USA.
    , @Forbes
    I see three (3) people with Wall St/mutual fund/hedge fund employment--out of 30 trustees.

    Your observation appears to be so wide of the mark as to be misleading.

    "Casino bankers"--however unlikable--are unlikely to condone, much less approve, the conduct for which the college has been found liable. Certainly, they are equally responsible for a laxity of oversight as the other 27 trustees.

    Perhaps I'm missing something.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/general-counsel-and-secretary/trustees

    , @Svigor
    That entire paragraph echoes.
    , @George Taylor

    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that’s led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.
     
    Don't know about the casino bankers but I do know the tax treatment virtually all colleges in the USA have with the exception of pure for profit colleges the like University of Phoenix. Again the vast majority of colleges operate under IRC Section 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status. This provides them with very generous tax benefits for themselves and their very wealthy benefactors. When the very wealthy donate appreciated assets like stocks, real estate etc, they get out capital gain and estate taxes. When the college itself sells these assets they don't pay taxes on it either, such a deal. Of course this comes with a bit of quid pro quo. Schools like Oberlin have been educating the kids of wealthy donors for years. Sadly many of these kids graduate with degrees in liberal arts, victim studies, social services, psychology etc., which are not that much in demand beyond Barista and lowly paid government social workers. But Daddy just gave Vassar, Occidental, Bates name your favorite private liberal arts college a big donation. So now his idle and or underemployed daughter/wife gets a job as director of the made up "such and such" department and or position on the board etc.
    , @Desiderius
    I remember Liberal Arts faculty at the Ivies (back when they were still largely legit, if rooting for the wrong team) lamenting how many of their best and brightest were choosing finance over the Humanities.

    Those students are now our leaders (sic) and we wonder why they're so inhumane.
  6. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    Could you explain this to me more? Are there any links to good article on this phenomenon?

  7. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    I find it hard to believe they have anybody worth a crap doing anything there. I was a div 3 level athlete twenty years ago looking for schools. Even back then it was known they were liberal loon balls who had no money (ie no “financial aid”), and nobody wanted to go there.

    Maybe they’ve capitalized on the last decade’s focus on batshit insane diversity liberalism (of which they were well ahead of the curve) that’s swept the nation and got some “Soros money?”

    • Replies: @prime noticer
    "I find it hard to believe they have anybody worth a crap doing anything there."

    they don't.

    we could get rid of 50% of colleges with zero effect on STEM or sports output.

    there's way too many colleges now.

    it's not necessary to extend the talent search all the way down to the floor in order to produce results that matter.

    since every college is now either a leftist bastion, or target for leftist takeover, the fewer colleges, the better. these small private colleges are just leftist manufacturing centers in 2019. even williams, the best one, is going that way. i got into williams, but didn't go there. 25 years ago, stuff like this was unthinkable at these places.

    we really need no more than 100 colleges at most. not the 500 we have today.

    , @Alden
    Oberlin’s been batshit crazy since it was founded before the civil war. I think it was an off shoot of those utopian Puritan communities, not the Shakers or Oneida but something similar.

    Buttinsky central; abolitionists, Prohibitionists anti private schools just like the KKK lesbian central even 150 years ago Quakers Universalists puritans health food alternative medicine freakos. But above all, the curse of America, the minions of Satan on earth, anti White liberals.
  8. Totally OT:

    H2 2019 is shaping up to be a great run for movies.

    Here’s the trailer for Dauntless, another take on the Battle of Midway, which was one of history’s great stretches of white men organizing and going out to kick ass:

    • Replies: @JMcG
    This doesn’t seem possible.
  9. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    They are if you work at the casino.

  10. The jury found only the college guilty of inflicting emotional distress on both Gibson’s and only Ms. Raimondo responsible for tortious interference of business relationships. …

    Ms. Raimondo should have known what any witch worth her salt knows, that casting evil spells can backfire.

    But even though she cost her employer $44 million, this harridan is probably in no danger of even a mild rebuke, let alone unemployment.

    • Agree: bomag, Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Barnard
    They have taken no action against her yet. The declining prestige is the bigger problem for Oberlin. Enrollment is already in a decline pattern and dontions will follow if they haven't already. They have shown no signs they correct it either.
    , @Thomas

    Ms. Raimondo should have known what any witch worth her salt knows, that casting evil spells can backfire.
     
    And it even came back three times, given the punitive damages.
    , @Anonymous
    Does she really have that much power? I can't imagine she stays on even if they don't publicly pink-slip the nasty woman. $44 million here, $44 million there, pretty soon you're talking real money
  11. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    >>Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    Agree 100%, yet too many of our fellows believe that what is good for Citibank is good for the USA.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    "A nation is more than its economy."
  12. “a jury today piled on triple punitive damages”

    Didn’t this college insult the jury as racist before they came back with punitive damages? If so, what a dumb move. That alone should decrease the value of a degree from this place.

  13. Oberlin’s tag line: “Think one person can change the world? So do we.”

    This stuff writes itself.
    ______________________________

    Thinking about finances:

    Tuition, room, board and fees at Oberlin: $73,694

    3,000 students.

    3,000 x $73,694 = $221,082,000

    Someone with inside knowledge here should be able to determine how much of that is profit, and then calculate how long Oberlin will be paying off the $44 million owed.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    This website has a good estimate of what actual cost would be on average for students and puts it at just under $35,000 per student. Pro Publica has the 990s through 2016 if anyone wants to dig into those. The "Is it worth the cost" section on the College Calc page makes a strong case, that no, Oberlin is not worth the cost compared to other schools offering the same programs. They are losing prestige and I would guess are skewing the student body even more toward SJW zealots who are in competition to see who can be the most outraged. There is no evidence Oberlin has the self awareness needed to correct course, if/when the college funding bubble bursts, they will be lucky to survive it.

    http://www.collegecalc.org/colleges/ohio/oberlin-college/

    https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/340714363
  14. I am not a lawyer, but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin. At any rate, here’s to hoping it sticks.

    • Replies: @Flip
    They'd probably have to post a bond for the judgment amount to appeal though which could be expensive. I am guessing it gets settled for a still material amount.
    , @newrouter
    >but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin.the jury awarded a total of $33 million in punitive damages, which will probably be reduced by the court to $22 million because of the state law cap at twice compensatory >>(it’s not an absolute cap,<< but probably will apply here).<

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-hit-with-maximum-punitive-damages-capped-at-22-million-by-law-in-gibsons-bakery-case/
    , @jimmyriddle
    Raimondo was very stupid - she left a paper trail (or rather an email and SMS tail) with threats to "unleash the students" etc

    Oberlin was not sued for the actions of its students (as the NYT mistakenly asserted) - it was sued for the words and actions of its employees. According to a most of the legal commentators, they won't be able to mount a free speech defence, and the damages are unlikely to be much reduced, except that the $33 million of punitive damages will be reduced to $22 million (they are capped at 2x the compensatory damages in Ohio). They are also liable for the Gibsons' legal fees (many millions).
    , @Lot
    It will probably be reduced to about 4 or 5 million total. Meanwhile they may have to put an appeal bond for the whole amount, which I doubt they have sitting around as ready cash. That’s what killed Gawker.

    Happy that Peter Thiel and the Hulk were able to do so, but the US Supreme Court should have taken a direct appeal there. “You lose the right to challenge a $900 million defamation verdict if you don’t put up the full amount” is an unjustified state burden of free speech, and can just as easily be used against conservatives.
    , @Jack D
    From the Legal Insurrection blog:


    For those who have speculated that these jury verdicts will be pared down substantially or denied by an appeals court, that also is not good speculation. Yes, there will likely be appeals, but in order to win an appeal in a civil tort case, Oberlin College would have to prove that Judge Miraldi and the jury made egregious decision that went against Ohio law. For those of us in the courtroom, and for legal observers who know more about this than me, appeals reversals are unlikely. And Miraldi was very careful in setting the bar pretty high on evidentiary rulings.
     
    Appeals courts are generally required to accept the jury's take on the facts as a given and can reverse only if there was an error in the way that the law was applied (e.g. the judge gave them erroneous instructions or allowed the jury to hear inflammatory evidence that should have been excluded, etc.). This is a high burden. In a politically charged case like this, it might happen if the court was ultra-liberal and wanted to help Oberlin out, but Ohio is not California.
  15. This may be better than Duke Lacrosse, but it’s hard to tell since there were so many gagged out of court settlements in the case of Jersey preppies et al. vs. Duke’s administration et al. The award against Oberlin appears to represent a little more than five percent of its total endowment.

    Now it only remains to be seen whether it’s issue the checks or start threatening to appeal.

  16. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    Great news. Maybe donors will start pressuring the school to get rid of these bizarre women in the administration who have this drooling, panting, groupie-like attitude towards sociopathic criminals.

    By the way, I looked up all three students, and none of them were expelled from Oberlin after robbing the bakery and attacking the owner. That’s how much the administrators kissed their filthy little sociopathic butts.

    Ghetto trash is as ghetto trash does.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Sextus Empiricus
    “Maybe donors will start pressuring the school to get rid of these bizarre women in the administration who have this drooling, panting, groupie-like attitude towards sociopathic criminals.“

    I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen - doesn’t she have triple intersectional Pokémon points?

    If she looked more like this, she’d be untouchable:

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a1/0f/ea/a10fea45d478cdb71ca7871c3583cf7c.jpg

  17. Kevin Roose, author of “The Making of a Youtube Radical”, is from Oberlin.

  18. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    The jury found only the college guilty of inflicting emotional distress on both Gibson’s and only Ms. Raimondo responsible for tortious interference of business relationships. …
     
    Ms. Raimondo should have known what any witch worth her salt knows, that casting evil spells can backfire.

    But even though she cost her employer $44 million, this harridan is probably in no danger of even a mild rebuke, let alone unemployment.

    They have taken no action against her yet. The declining prestige is the bigger problem for Oberlin. Enrollment is already in a decline pattern and dontions will follow if they haven’t already. They have shown no signs they correct it either.

  19. Oberlin is a joke but this is an excessive judgement. It really illustrates how much the community must despise the university though.

    What I’d like to see is a judgement against it for posing as a institute of higher learning.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Tovarish comrade, in revolutionary struggle, any weapon may be used against class enemy.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Oberlin is a joke but this is an excessive judgement.
     
    No, it really isn't.
    , @Nicholas Stix
    The community responded to Oberlin's hate campaign against Gibson's by organizing a buy-in at the bakery. Photos showed the place was packed.
  20. @Arclight
    I am not a lawyer, but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin. At any rate, here's to hoping it sticks.

    They’d probably have to post a bond for the judgment amount to appeal though which could be expensive. I am guessing it gets settled for a still material amount.

    • Replies: @Rufio Panman Fan
    25M and an N-word pass.
  21. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    Easter tradition in Spain:

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/30/04/271C98D200000578-0-image-a-76_1427685498683.jpg

    Triggered!

  22. @Arclight
    I am not a lawyer, but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin. At any rate, here's to hoping it sticks.

    >but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin.the jury awarded a total of $33 million in punitive damages, which will probably be reduced by the court to $22 million because of the state law cap at twice compensatory >>(it’s not an absolute cap,<< but probably will apply here).<

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-hit-with-maximum-punitive-damages-capped-at-22-million-by-law-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

  23. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    According to the article, “Oberlin attorney Matthew Nakon clarified Mr. Rarric’s numeric claims, saying the college has been operating in an unsustainable deficit situation year after year — a situation caused largely by substantial declines in enrollment. ”

    “He stated that annual student charges for tuition and room and board are roughly $70,000.”

    Holy, Moses, that’s insane. No wonder their enrollment is dropping. Middle-class wage earners can’t afford that, and that’s bad even for upper-middle earners. But there’s something strange here. Yes, enrollment can decline, but we’re living in an era in which people are desperate and even trying to bribe their way into college. There are a ton of libtards from the Northeast who would love to go to a school like Oberlin. It still has a very high academic reputation.

    However, the school also has 200 million’s worth of debt. How? Another article states:

    “S&P Global Ratings changed the outlook on its AA rating for the private liberal arts college in Ohio Thursday and said that any further weakening in the school’s finances and failure to return to historical operating performance could pressure the rating on $200 million of debt.”

    How’d Oberlin get 200 million of debt with an endowment of 887 million and 1.4 billion in assets?

    I wonder if the ‘unsustainable’ deficit is due to malfeasance -or even theft-by their black female prexy, Carmen Twillie Ambar. Did she deliberately run up the college’s debt? Someone ought to look into Oberlin’s finances to find out what’s up. Regrettably, it looks like Ambar is going to do to Oberlin what Jane Sanders did to Burlington College.

    • Replies: @Alden
    $70,000 is a decent muddle class family wage. Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?
    , @Penskefile

    How’d Oberlin get 200 million of debt with an endowment of 887 million and 1.4 billion in assets

     

    When interest rates are as low as they have been for the past decade, it would be dumb NOT to borrow money to finance projects. You are paying near nothing on the borrowed funds, while earning more on the funds you hold in other investments.

    Others who know more should correct me, but I would expect that endowment funds are housed in trusts or other SPV's that are sheltered from the operations of the school.
    , @midtown
    My guess would be they went on a building spree, as many colleges have done, and used the rock-bottom interest rates available through the Obama years. And apparently most of the endowment is directed by donors to be spent on specific purposes, so they are fairly tied. There is a chance it could go under or at least radically transformed (heh).
  24. @Arclight
    I am not a lawyer, but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin. At any rate, here's to hoping it sticks.

    Raimondo was very stupid – she left a paper trail (or rather an email and SMS tail) with threats to “unleash the students” etc

    Oberlin was not sued for the actions of its students (as the NYT mistakenly asserted) – it was sued for the words and actions of its employees. According to a most of the legal commentators, they won’t be able to mount a free speech defence, and the damages are unlikely to be much reduced, except that the $33 million of punitive damages will be reduced to $22 million (they are capped at 2x the compensatory damages in Ohio). They are also liable for the Gibsons’ legal fees (many millions).

  25. Oberlin’s endowment is about $890 million, but typically, the majority of college endowments are illiquid, tied down in various trusts, and by donor requirements about how funds might be used (for example, for the salary of a chaired professor).

    If the award isn’t whittled down substantially on appeal, this is a major financial crisis for Oberlin. Oberlin is a “needs-sensitive” admissions policy, rather than a “needs-blind” admissions policy, which is a college’s way of saying that it takes into account whether an applicants parents are wealthy.

    So one of the first things they’ll do is shut off the financial aid tap to poorer students. Another thing they could, and should, do, is lay off non-essential administrative staff. Still, $88 million is a massive nut, relative to the annual operating budget. But looking at their numbers, they should be able to pull it off over a few years, if they have the grit.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/sites/default/files/content/controller/documents/reports/oc_2018_afs_for_website_v2_revised_2019-01-07.pdf

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    So how much do you figure the entire D.I.E. apparatus costs Oberlin per year on a regular recurring basis exclusive of awards like this one?
    , @Moses
    Colleges have such overhead and admin bloat they could cut 50% staff no problem.

    Higher education has been captured by rent-seeking bureaucrats for their own benefit.

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1003380830545305600

    , @EH
    "Total endowed funds as of June 30, 2018 were $887.4 million, as compared to $820.3 million the previous year, an increase of $67.1 million. In comparison, total endowed funds increased by $66.8 million in the fiscal year ended June 30, 2017, from $753.5 million at June 30, 2016."
    , @jimmyriddle
    Their IRS form for non-profits shows that they have well over $1 billion in assets, and over $100 million in cash or liquid securities.

    Given their assets, they can easily take out a secured loan for the settlement ($33 million) at a not too usurious interest rate. The jury, obviously, did not but they protestations of poverty.
  26. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    I see three (3) people with Wall St/mutual fund/hedge fund employment–out of 30 trustees.

    Your observation appears to be so wide of the mark as to be misleading.

    “Casino bankers”–however unlikable–are unlikely to condone, much less approve, the conduct for which the college has been found liable. Certainly, they are equally responsible for a laxity of oversight as the other 27 trustees.

    Perhaps I’m missing something.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/general-counsel-and-secretary/trustees

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I see three (3) people with Wall St/mutual fund/hedge fund employment–out of 30 trustees.

    Fair complaint, but you missed a set of others in the portfolio management business. In sum


    1. T. Chris Canavan

    2. Richard T. Brandt

    3. Amy Chen

    4. Motoko Dean (retired)

    5. Sean P. Gavin

    6. Eric R. Katzman

    and, adjacent

    7. David Krischer (securities lawyer, retired)


    That's seven out of 30 people. The financial sector in general accounts for just shy of 8% of value-added in this country. As far as I can tell, the number of commercial bankers and insurance executives on that board sums to zero. Sectors represented on the board include media and entertainment (x 3), IT (1), biotech (1), general manufacturing (1), and retail trade (1).
  27. At least this one had a happy ending…

  28. Hell of a lick for plaintiffs’ counsel.

  29. OT:
    This story from South Africa may be a look into the future. South Asian oligarchs hired a London PR firm to stoke anti-White resentments in order to distract from ANC corruption:

    How Bell Pottinger, P.R. Firm for Despots and Rogues, Met Its End in South Africa
    The British firm Bell Pottinger, hired by three brothers now caught up in a nationwide corruption scandal, helped drive racial tensions to levels not felt since apartheid.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/business/bell-pottinger-guptas-zuma-south-africa.html

    • Replies: @anon
    iSteve Already Did It



    http://www.unz.com/isteve/white-monopoly-capital-vs-white-privilege/
    , @Anonymous
    There are a couple of threads on that in last year's archive.

    The ANC had gotten so used to pushing ordinary whites around that it decided to start pushing bankers and mine-owners around as well. It received a sharp reminder that some 'whites' push back - and hard. The SA prime minister was ousted from power, a major humiliation. The ANC took revenge by stepping up its harassment of white farmers, which prompted international protests, notably including Trump. Since then things have gone quiet.
  30. Social Justice, meet Poetic Justice.

    This made my day!

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Social Justice, meet Poetic Justice.
     
    Good one!
  31. Not noted in the article is that video exists of the student attempting to steal the bottle of wine. Oberlin knew that and still acted with malice and tried to destroy the bakery. Because black bodies are sacred.

    • Replies: @jon
    Do you have a link for that? I was just reading on another site that the bakery didn't have any CCTV.
  32. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a “How Dare They Think We’re Wrong,” email to alumni while the trial was still going.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    Here’s a picture of Donica:

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    • Replies: @Sextus Empiricus
    Right out of central casting.
    , @95Theses
    Donica? Now how did I know what demographic Ms. Donica's photo was going to reveal.
    , @Anonymous
    (1) Who is her boss? Who does she answer to? (2) Why didn't they tell her to shut up?
    , @AnotherDad

    I’m beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a “How Dare They Think We’re Wrong,” email to alumni while the trial was still going.
     
    One of the problems of the Stalinist PC orthodoxy is that it inhibits normal people from normal questioning.

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say "Hey maybe we shouldn't let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones ... lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there's some male rationality and sanity around the table."
    , @Autochthon
    Any outfit hiring a Negress as general counsel is asking for a shitstorm of troubles; every lawyer worth his salt knows they belong working as HR ladies, business-development, recruiting, some bullshit office of diversity...but as the g-d-damned general counsel?!
  33. @PiltdownMan
    Oberlin's endowment is about $890 million, but typically, the majority of college endowments are illiquid, tied down in various trusts, and by donor requirements about how funds might be used (for example, for the salary of a chaired professor).

    If the award isn't whittled down substantially on appeal, this is a major financial crisis for Oberlin. Oberlin is a "needs-sensitive" admissions policy, rather than a "needs-blind" admissions policy, which is a college's way of saying that it takes into account whether an applicants parents are wealthy.

    So one of the first things they'll do is shut off the financial aid tap to poorer students. Another thing they could, and should, do, is lay off non-essential administrative staff. Still, $88 million is a massive nut, relative to the annual operating budget. But looking at their numbers, they should be able to pull it off over a few years, if they have the grit.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/sites/default/files/content/controller/documents/reports/oc_2018_afs_for_website_v2_revised_2019-01-07.pdf

    So how much do you figure the entire D.I.E. apparatus costs Oberlin per year on a regular recurring basis exclusive of awards like this one?

  34. Hail Victory!

    The jury didn’t have to award anything. Instead they unloaded both barrels on Oberlin, giving the maximum punitive award plus attorney fees.

    The Gibson attorneys did their job, awakening a just and righteous anger in the jury.

    Yeah, Oberlin will try to get it reduced on appeal, but they have to allege some kind of legal miscarriage—the facts are all established, and the jury did their job in the methodical Midwestern way: accounted for the facts and awarded prescribed damages within the law. Oberlin might get lucky and get some pussy appellate judge, but ultimately Oberlin’s gonna have to shell out a lotta coin one way or another: either paying it, fighting it, or settling it. And their insurance won’t cover them. This is coming straight outta their rotten hide.

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.

    Feels good, man.

    • Agree: Ibound1
    • Replies: @Alden
    A local jury was probably composed of locals sick and tired of Oberlin’s condescension and hatred of the Midwest. Iberlin rrally belongs in a liberal loony place like San Francisco or NYC.

    The school’s probably deeply embarrassed about its location in conservative heartland America.
    , @Mr McKenna

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.
     
    Not happening. Quite the contrary, pundits are already sharpening their figurative pencils and preparing essays on how this heartland jury evidences the systemic racism and sexism we've been telling you about for five decades now.

    Whatever happens, those who own and run the media get to decide what means what. It doesn't really matter what the evidence is. All that matters is how they spin it.

    This'll be just one more bit of ammo for the reckoning beginning late next year. Seriously: Do you really think anything will cause America's enemies to stop and consider the error of their ways? Seriously?

    , @Jim Christian

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.
     
    Not sure I felt tremors, but the collective SJW Media/Academic/political sphincter should have done a major contraction. We now have civil precedent. Lordie, wherever a statute of limitations exists and not been exceeded, others can now be sued. Oberlin isn't the only one, not even the worst of them. Every newspaper, every magazine, every PAC that pushes these unfounded accusations need to be brought up just like Oberlin. The lawyers have GOT to be licking their chops, sharpening their knives. It's a start. I wondered at all this when Hulk Hogan sank Gawker. Different situation, but same effect. There's a weariness of media and by extention, academia in the air perhaps. Their well-known greed is certainly a consideration. People who pay tuition know.
  35. @PiltdownMan
    Oberlin's endowment is about $890 million, but typically, the majority of college endowments are illiquid, tied down in various trusts, and by donor requirements about how funds might be used (for example, for the salary of a chaired professor).

    If the award isn't whittled down substantially on appeal, this is a major financial crisis for Oberlin. Oberlin is a "needs-sensitive" admissions policy, rather than a "needs-blind" admissions policy, which is a college's way of saying that it takes into account whether an applicants parents are wealthy.

    So one of the first things they'll do is shut off the financial aid tap to poorer students. Another thing they could, and should, do, is lay off non-essential administrative staff. Still, $88 million is a massive nut, relative to the annual operating budget. But looking at their numbers, they should be able to pull it off over a few years, if they have the grit.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/sites/default/files/content/controller/documents/reports/oc_2018_afs_for_website_v2_revised_2019-01-07.pdf

    Colleges have such overhead and admin bloat they could cut 50% staff no problem.

    Higher education has been captured by rent-seeking bureaucrats for their own benefit.

  36. This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    • Replies: @TWS
    Yes it was more than just a bakery and the college did more than just boycott. The only award that will likely be lowered is the punitive damages that cap at double the award in Ohio.

    The college was malicious, tone deaf, vindictive and doubled down on stupid. Fortunately, for all involved the college has a valuable art collection and a very hefty endowment. So if the judge does allow the exception to the rule, Oberlin will still be offering the same high quality experience as always.
    , @Alec Leamas

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.
     
    You'd have to find the multiple to value the business but I suspect that the closest Pizza Parlor or Bakery to a non-urban College campus does a brisk business, especially one formerly regarded as an institution and tradition by the students. This place was there from 1885 and there's a load of good will that was built up over the years and then set on fire by a gaggle of affirmative action cases and enabling goodwhites who refused to accept the world as it is.
    , @Thomas

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.
     
    It's a college town, obviously, so the college almost certainly accounted for the majority of their business. (I ate a lot of cheap and easy baked goods on the go in college, as did most of the people I know). Also, Oberlin had a contract with them to be an on-campus vendor that they canceled. Project those losses out a few years, and take into account that we're talking all gross revenues, and you get an idea how the meter runs.
    , @Alec Leamas
    I also forgot to add that - according to the story - the Bakery sold wine (and probably beer if not the popular booze brands).

    Breakfast carbs, cakes/cookies/ice cream, confections and booze all close to the campus before accounting for supplies to the cafeteria. That sounds like a gold mine to me.
    , @anonymous
    As I understand it, $11 million is not supposed to be what the business was worth, rather it was the estimate for the totality of lost income to the business, from the past several years and as long into the future as Oberlin's libel would have negatively affected their sales. It is not an unreasonable number if you consider a ~15 year effect and that they did enough business to have up to 12 employees at one time.
    , @Almost Missouri
    It is a larger business than just a bakery, more of a general store plus liquor store, and its lost business includes daily orders for the College's dining facilities. $11 million is probably about 3 or 4 years of their gross sales. Of course in real life, gross sales come with costs of sales, so the actual profits are much lower, but that is the kind of nuance that is lost on juries. But in this case, I don't mind.

    "Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?"
     
    Pretty much.

    This is what wokeness is all about. Craven conformity.

    , @Wilkey

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages. Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?
     
    According to one article I read the attorneys for Oberlin College argued that the bakery was only worth $35,000. In part, I guess, they argued that's because all it was "really worth" was the difference between what the owners were taking home and what they might have been taking home if working for someone else, which is an incredibly condescending way to estimate damages.

    My wife served on the jury for a civil trial a few years ago. She said that the plaintiff alleged ridiculously high damages and the jury's response was to simply ignore them. Gibson's may not be worth anything like $11 million, but that number - for a business that before the Oberlin temper tantrum had 12 employees - is a hell of a lot closer to a realistic estimate than Oberlin's claim of $35,000.

    Oberlin's lawyers could have saved their client a shitload of money if they had been more charitable in their estimates. Even if they had agreed that the bakery was worth $4 million, that plus the 3x in punitive damages would have saved Oberlin $28 million on the verdict.

    I don't know what the odds are on winning an appeal, but I don't think they can appeal based on the fact that they, Oberlin College, screwed up in lowballing the value of the bakery.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.
     
    Calling someone "racist" in today's climate pretty much qualifies as a death threat. Not only is the judgment on the low side, it's outrageous that no one involved will be doing time.

    A long stint in a cold cell in Marysville would concentrate their minds.
    , @jon
    The bakery was only about $2-3 million of the damages, the rest was for defamation of the father-son owners.
    , @Mr. Pneumonia
    Legal Insurrection said Gibson's revenue dropped almost half a million because of this. Project that out over a decade or two (reasonable since it's a long-established business) and there's your 11 million right there.

    In a small town like Oberlin, (5 thousand non students) when the college (a quarter $billion business) sneezes everyone gets pneumonia or worse.
  37. • LOL: Abe
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    Why don’t I have a first draft of "The Maccabees"?

    What the phuck have you been doing?

    I’ll type it!

    Who wants to eat?! Who the phuck wants to eat?! Go have something to eat! Hurrrrraaaaayyyyyy!

    https://youtu.be/kEAO9j4MWH4
  38. The University of Virginia Phi Psis needed these lawyers.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  39. @PiltdownMan
    Oberlin's endowment is about $890 million, but typically, the majority of college endowments are illiquid, tied down in various trusts, and by donor requirements about how funds might be used (for example, for the salary of a chaired professor).

    If the award isn't whittled down substantially on appeal, this is a major financial crisis for Oberlin. Oberlin is a "needs-sensitive" admissions policy, rather than a "needs-blind" admissions policy, which is a college's way of saying that it takes into account whether an applicants parents are wealthy.

    So one of the first things they'll do is shut off the financial aid tap to poorer students. Another thing they could, and should, do, is lay off non-essential administrative staff. Still, $88 million is a massive nut, relative to the annual operating budget. But looking at their numbers, they should be able to pull it off over a few years, if they have the grit.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/sites/default/files/content/controller/documents/reports/oc_2018_afs_for_website_v2_revised_2019-01-07.pdf

    “Total endowed funds as of June 30, 2018 were $887.4 million, as compared to $820.3 million the previous year, an increase of $67.1 million. In comparison, total endowed funds increased by $66.8 million in the fiscal year ended June 30, 2017, from $753.5 million at June 30, 2016.”

  40. I think this is a microcosm of wokeness – left wing, mostly white people willfully believing the fanciful excuses of people of color who get themselves in trouble after doing stupid things and then doubling down in the face of dispositive contrary evidence as a show of virtue.

    Obviously they didn’t incite a riot that razed an American city or exurb, but the fundamentals are the same.

    • Replies: @Thomas
    Dindu nuffins didn't get their muffins.
    , @Svigor
    I'm not sure white people really have to believe in anything, anymore. At this point the train's built up such a head of steam, whites would have to believe in something to stop it.
  41. Off-topic:

    At Jacobite, a fairly Sailer-ish take on the Sohrab Ahmari -David French debate.

    https://jacobitemag.com/2019/06/12/french-leave/

    • Replies: @Lot
    Good article, I agreed with all of it.
  42. @PiltdownMan
    Oberlin's endowment is about $890 million, but typically, the majority of college endowments are illiquid, tied down in various trusts, and by donor requirements about how funds might be used (for example, for the salary of a chaired professor).

    If the award isn't whittled down substantially on appeal, this is a major financial crisis for Oberlin. Oberlin is a "needs-sensitive" admissions policy, rather than a "needs-blind" admissions policy, which is a college's way of saying that it takes into account whether an applicants parents are wealthy.

    So one of the first things they'll do is shut off the financial aid tap to poorer students. Another thing they could, and should, do, is lay off non-essential administrative staff. Still, $88 million is a massive nut, relative to the annual operating budget. But looking at their numbers, they should be able to pull it off over a few years, if they have the grit.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/sites/default/files/content/controller/documents/reports/oc_2018_afs_for_website_v2_revised_2019-01-07.pdf

    Their IRS form for non-profits shows that they have well over $1 billion in assets, and over $100 million in cash or liquid securities.

    Given their assets, they can easily take out a secured loan for the settlement ($33 million) at a not too usurious interest rate. The jury, obviously, did not but they protestations of poverty.

  43. Lot says:
    @Arclight
    I am not a lawyer, but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin. At any rate, here's to hoping it sticks.

    It will probably be reduced to about 4 or 5 million total. Meanwhile they may have to put an appeal bond for the whole amount, which I doubt they have sitting around as ready cash. That’s what killed Gawker.

    Happy that Peter Thiel and the Hulk were able to do so, but the US Supreme Court should have taken a direct appeal there. “You lose the right to challenge a $900 million defamation verdict if you don’t put up the full amount” is an unjustified state burden of free speech, and can just as easily be used against conservatives.

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    You can appeal but without posting the judgment amount or a bond the appeal will not act as a supersedeas of the judgment. The policy at work is to discourage meritless appeals for the purpose of delaying payment of the judgment while dissipating the assets of the judgment debtor.
    , @anonymous
    On what grounds would the appeal get the award reduced? Just that it is excessive, or something specific that happened at the trial?
  44. TWS says:
    @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    Yes it was more than just a bakery and the college did more than just boycott. The only award that will likely be lowered is the punitive damages that cap at double the award in Ohio.

    The college was malicious, tone deaf, vindictive and doubled down on stupid. Fortunately, for all involved the college has a valuable art collection and a very hefty endowment. So if the judge does allow the exception to the rule, Oberlin will still be offering the same high quality experience as always.

  45. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    The jury found only the college guilty of inflicting emotional distress on both Gibson’s and only Ms. Raimondo responsible for tortious interference of business relationships. …
     
    Ms. Raimondo should have known what any witch worth her salt knows, that casting evil spells can backfire.

    But even though she cost her employer $44 million, this harridan is probably in no danger of even a mild rebuke, let alone unemployment.

    Ms. Raimondo should have known what any witch worth her salt knows, that casting evil spells can backfire.

    And it even came back three times, given the punitive damages.

  46. The article in the WaPo implies that the shoplifter was just interested in buying wine, about 15 paragraphs later they mentioned that he shoplifted the wine and beat the owner’s son. The case revolved around Oberlin’s claim that Gibons had a long history of racial profiling. The Oberlin police chief stated that there were 40 shoplifting arrests at Gibson’s Bakery in the past five years, with 6 of the arrested being black. That is 15% of the arrests being black or exactlty the percentage of blacks in Oberlin, Ohio. The all so woke college only has 5% black enrollment. They can appeal but I don’t think they can appeal the amount, just the judge’s actions on evidence and procedure.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Interestingly, the WaPo article you are referring to which obfuscates about the shoplifting was last week's one reporting on the jury finding for the defendants for the $11 million compensatory damages.

    In today's recent WaPo article about the $33 million punitive damages they are right up front about the shoplifting and assault! Is today's result starting to make WaPo nervous about their own reckoning with a heartland libel jury, in the Covington Catholic lawsuit?
  47. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.

    You’d have to find the multiple to value the business but I suspect that the closest Pizza Parlor or Bakery to a non-urban College campus does a brisk business, especially one formerly regarded as an institution and tradition by the students. This place was there from 1885 and there’s a load of good will that was built up over the years and then set on fire by a gaggle of affirmative action cases and enabling goodwhites who refused to accept the world as it is.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    One thing that probably pissed off jury was Oberlin's contention that the bakery was only worth $35,000.
  48. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.

    It’s a college town, obviously, so the college almost certainly accounted for the majority of their business. (I ate a lot of cheap and easy baked goods on the go in college, as did most of the people I know). Also, Oberlin had a contract with them to be an on-campus vendor that they canceled. Project those losses out a few years, and take into account that we’re talking all gross revenues, and you get an idea how the meter runs.

  49. @Alec Leamas
    I think this is a microcosm of wokeness - left wing, mostly white people willfully believing the fanciful excuses of people of color who get themselves in trouble after doing stupid things and then doubling down in the face of dispositive contrary evidence as a show of virtue.

    Obviously they didn't incite a riot that razed an American city or exurb, but the fundamentals are the same.

    Dindu nuffins didn’t get their muffins.

    • Replies: @95Theses
    Even with Oberlin's huffin' and puffin'.
  50. @Lot
    It will probably be reduced to about 4 or 5 million total. Meanwhile they may have to put an appeal bond for the whole amount, which I doubt they have sitting around as ready cash. That’s what killed Gawker.

    Happy that Peter Thiel and the Hulk were able to do so, but the US Supreme Court should have taken a direct appeal there. “You lose the right to challenge a $900 million defamation verdict if you don’t put up the full amount” is an unjustified state burden of free speech, and can just as easily be used against conservatives.

    You can appeal but without posting the judgment amount or a bond the appeal will not act as a supersedeas of the judgment. The policy at work is to discourage meritless appeals for the purpose of delaying payment of the judgment while dissipating the assets of the judgment debtor.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I can see both sides of this. Maybe the law could be changed to require only a percentage of the award as bond, maybe 10% - 25%.
  51. @benjaminl
    Off-topic:

    At Jacobite, a fairly Sailer-ish take on the Sohrab Ahmari -David French debate.

    https://jacobitemag.com/2019/06/12/french-leave/

    Good article, I agreed with all of it.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6swhiw1QvuA
  52. Fan-bloody-tastic result!

    As the plaintiff’s lawyers said, it’s meant to discourage other colleges from behaving similarly…

  53. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    I also forgot to add that – according to the story – the Bakery sold wine (and probably beer if not the popular booze brands).

    Breakfast carbs, cakes/cookies/ice cream, confections and booze all close to the campus before accounting for supplies to the cafeteria. That sounds like a gold mine to me.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Alec, Unlike NY, where I live, lots of shops in Ohio sell wine, but not liquor. I doubt the bakery sold beer, because that requires a lot of shelf space and stockroom space. One bottle of wine costs more than a six pack. However, any business with a 150 year history is doing something right.
  54. Three cheers to the jury.

    Hopefully this signals the tide is turning.

  55. I’m glad to see tortious interference in there. Roughly 99% of everything the diversity/outrage industry does is TI, and it’s exactly the statute under which it should be prosecuted.

    I’d like to see Vox sued for 10 times that much for tortious interference of relationships between YouTube and its content creators, who receive money from YouTube and are therefore engaged in a business relationship. Maybe cases like this one will pave the way for larger class actions.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @Some broad
    Tortious Interference is indeed the SJW tort of choice. There are a few interesting culture war TI lawsuits working their way through the Texas courts right now.

    Meyer v. Waid: this is in comics books, which is a sad remnant of an industry thanks to politics infusing stories and reworking beloved characters into intersectional stars (black teen female Iron Man, female Thor etc). Mark Waid is a long time top comic book writer, male feminist and apparently a tantrum throwing manbaby. He made sure to document his TI all over his social media and in interviews.

    Mignogna v. Funimation: Anime English dubs. A long time voice actor named Vic Mignogna was me-too’d and chased out of his work and conventions. There don’t appear to be any real victims, just vague second hand rumours on social media and some clumsy passes. Once again much defamation and TI sprayed all over social media should make this a pretty fun case to watch.

    A YouTube lawyer named Nick Rekieta has been pointing out the TI for over a year now, and has decided to help SJWs feel consequences for their behavior by letting the targets of these attacks know how to fight back. Very entertaining. GoFundMe lets fans fed up with this nonsense help the victims of SJW mobbing pay for lawyers.

    In the old days, defamation was usually spread via a literal whisper network. TI happened on golf courses and in quiet hallways so it was hard to prove. These days the dummies put EVERYTHING in writing. Texts, twitter, etc.
  56. @Alec Leamas
    I also forgot to add that - according to the story - the Bakery sold wine (and probably beer if not the popular booze brands).

    Breakfast carbs, cakes/cookies/ice cream, confections and booze all close to the campus before accounting for supplies to the cafeteria. That sounds like a gold mine to me.

    Alec, Unlike NY, where I live, lots of shops in Ohio sell wine, but not liquor. I doubt the bakery sold beer, because that requires a lot of shelf space and stockroom space. One bottle of wine costs more than a six pack. However, any business with a 150 year history is doing something right.

    • Replies: @Haruto Rat

    However, any business with a 150 year history is doing something right.
     
    Like, er, New York Times?
  57. anonymous[195] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    As I understand it, $11 million is not supposed to be what the business was worth, rather it was the estimate for the totality of lost income to the business, from the past several years and as long into the future as Oberlin’s libel would have negatively affected their sales. It is not an unreasonable number if you consider a ~15 year effect and that they did enough business to have up to 12 employees at one time.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    The majority of the original 11 million was awarded for emotional distress and not for loss of business.
  58. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    It is a larger business than just a bakery, more of a general store plus liquor store, and its lost business includes daily orders for the College’s dining facilities. $11 million is probably about 3 or 4 years of their gross sales. Of course in real life, gross sales come with costs of sales, so the actual profits are much lower, but that is the kind of nuance that is lost on juries. But in this case, I don’t mind.

    “Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?”

    Pretty much.

    This is what wokeness is all about. Craven conformity.

    • Replies: @res

    This is what wokeness is all about. Craven conformity.
     
    Often it is craven conformity in the guise of rebellious independent thinking. "I'm a rebel just like all of my friends." That would be funnier if it weren't so annoying IRL.
    , @Mike1
    The formula used was 30 years times lost sales. Excessive but a window into how mad the jurors were.
  59. anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    It will probably be reduced to about 4 or 5 million total. Meanwhile they may have to put an appeal bond for the whole amount, which I doubt they have sitting around as ready cash. That’s what killed Gawker.

    Happy that Peter Thiel and the Hulk were able to do so, but the US Supreme Court should have taken a direct appeal there. “You lose the right to challenge a $900 million defamation verdict if you don’t put up the full amount” is an unjustified state burden of free speech, and can just as easily be used against conservatives.

    On what grounds would the appeal get the award reduced? Just that it is excessive, or something specific that happened at the trial?

  60. Forbes has an op ed defending the college and arguing libel and slander are allowed by the 1st amendment. The SJW wokeness battalions continue their takeover of formerly conservative institutions.

  61. @Almost Missouri
    It is a larger business than just a bakery, more of a general store plus liquor store, and its lost business includes daily orders for the College's dining facilities. $11 million is probably about 3 or 4 years of their gross sales. Of course in real life, gross sales come with costs of sales, so the actual profits are much lower, but that is the kind of nuance that is lost on juries. But in this case, I don't mind.

    "Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?"
     
    Pretty much.

    This is what wokeness is all about. Craven conformity.

    This is what wokeness is all about. Craven conformity.

    Often it is craven conformity in the guise of rebellious independent thinking. “I’m a rebel just like all of my friends.” That would be funnier if it weren’t so annoying IRL.

  62. First up: Haven Monahan. Now Gibson’s Bakery. Next at bat: Nick Sandmann. This could get interesting.

    The Left has long used lawfare as part of its strategy to keep pushing this country to the left. Constitutionally guaranteed property rights don’t mean much when courts can seize millions for even the most questionable allegations of discrimination. The Right may finally be catching on that we need to play by the same rules. And note that this decision was handed down in flyover country, where concepts like “white privilege” are rightly understood to be bullshit.

  63. anonymous[195] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    The article in the WaPo implies that the shoplifter was just interested in buying wine, about 15 paragraphs later they mentioned that he shoplifted the wine and beat the owner's son. The case revolved around Oberlin's claim that Gibons had a long history of racial profiling. The Oberlin police chief stated that there were 40 shoplifting arrests at Gibson's Bakery in the past five years, with 6 of the arrested being black. That is 15% of the arrests being black or exactlty the percentage of blacks in Oberlin, Ohio. The all so woke college only has 5% black enrollment. They can appeal but I don't think they can appeal the amount, just the judge's actions on evidence and procedure.

    Interestingly, the WaPo article you are referring to which obfuscates about the shoplifting was last week’s one reporting on the jury finding for the defendants for the $11 million compensatory damages.

    In today’s recent WaPo article about the $33 million punitive damages they are right up front about the shoplifting and assault! Is today’s result starting to make WaPo nervous about their own reckoning with a heartland libel jury, in the Covington Catholic lawsuit?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The recent story was an AP story off the wire, not written by a WaPo reporter. AP is not as woke as WaPo.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    anon, thank you . I will check that out.
  64. @Alec Leamas
    You can appeal but without posting the judgment amount or a bond the appeal will not act as a supersedeas of the judgment. The policy at work is to discourage meritless appeals for the purpose of delaying payment of the judgment while dissipating the assets of the judgment debtor.

    I can see both sides of this. Maybe the law could be changed to require only a percentage of the award as bond, maybe 10% – 25%.

  65. Hire woke, go broke. Honk.

  66. @Daniel H
    >>Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    Agree 100%, yet too many of our fellows believe that what is good for Citibank is good for the USA.

    “A nation is more than its economy.”

  67. @Paul Rise
    Oberlin is a joke but this is an excessive judgement. It really illustrates how much the community must despise the university though.

    What I'd like to see is a judgement against it for posing as a institute of higher learning.

    Tovarish comrade, in revolutionary struggle, any weapon may be used against class enemy.

  68. “The students originally claimed their arrests were racially motivated but later backtracked on those claims and pleaded guilty to misdemeanors in court.“

    That’s a lot of trouble for the sake of a couple of lying, slandering and thieving diversity admits. And is there no honor code at Oberlin?

    • Replies: @Joe H
    The honor codes at our military academies are pretty much a dead letter now. What makes you think something like that would be in force at place run by lunatic leftists?
  69. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages. Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    According to one article I read the attorneys for Oberlin College argued that the bakery was only worth $35,000. In part, I guess, they argued that’s because all it was “really worth” was the difference between what the owners were taking home and what they might have been taking home if working for someone else, which is an incredibly condescending way to estimate damages.

    My wife served on the jury for a civil trial a few years ago. She said that the plaintiff alleged ridiculously high damages and the jury’s response was to simply ignore them. Gibson’s may not be worth anything like $11 million, but that number – for a business that before the Oberlin temper tantrum had 12 employees – is a hell of a lot closer to a realistic estimate than Oberlin’s claim of $35,000.

    Oberlin’s lawyers could have saved their client a shitload of money if they had been more charitable in their estimates. Even if they had agreed that the bakery was worth $4 million, that plus the 3x in punitive damages would have saved Oberlin $28 million on the verdict.

    I don’t know what the odds are on winning an appeal, but I don’t think they can appeal based on the fact that they, Oberlin College, screwed up in lowballing the value of the bakery.

    • Replies: @Ibound1
    A simple public apology and a small settlement, far, far less than what they paid to their own lawyers, would have gotten them out of the entire mess. The Party failed to understand that while they had indeed captured Oberlin, and could alter reality in whatever way the Party demanded, they had not yet captured Ohio, and the law of gravity still applied there.
    , @Daniel H
    Oberlin’s lawyers could have saved their client a shitload of money if they had been more charitable in their estimates.

    And they really could have saved their client a lot of money if they had instruct their client to 1) admit that the entire thing was a con. 2) fired the administrator responsible 2) suspended/expelled the miscreant students 3) publicly apologized, 4) and offered to pay legal costs and throw in a few thousand for all the plaintiff's trouble. This is the way things are handled between civilized, trusting parties.
  70. @Anon
    Great news. Maybe donors will start pressuring the school to get rid of these bizarre women in the administration who have this drooling, panting, groupie-like attitude towards sociopathic criminals.

    By the way, I looked up all three students, and none of them were expelled from Oberlin after robbing the bakery and attacking the owner. That's how much the administrators kissed their filthy little sociopathic butts.


    Ghetto trash is as ghetto trash does.

    “Maybe donors will start pressuring the school to get rid of these bizarre women in the administration who have this drooling, panting, groupie-like attitude towards sociopathic criminals.“

    I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen – doesn’t she have triple intersectional Pokémon points?

    If she looked more like this, she’d be untouchable:

  71. @Lot
    Good article, I agreed with all of it.

  72. @Anon
    I'm beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a "How Dare They Think We're Wrong," email to alumni while the trial was still going.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    Here's a picture of Donica:

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    Right out of central casting.

  73. @Flip
    They'd probably have to post a bond for the judgment amount to appeal though which could be expensive. I am guessing it gets settled for a still material amount.

    25M and an N-word pass.

  74. A question:

    Who (or what) financed Gibson’s lawsuit? Was it on a pure contingency basis or was there a Thiel lurking in the background?

    Any response would, of course, be appreciated.

  75. @Wilkey

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages. Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?
     
    According to one article I read the attorneys for Oberlin College argued that the bakery was only worth $35,000. In part, I guess, they argued that's because all it was "really worth" was the difference between what the owners were taking home and what they might have been taking home if working for someone else, which is an incredibly condescending way to estimate damages.

    My wife served on the jury for a civil trial a few years ago. She said that the plaintiff alleged ridiculously high damages and the jury's response was to simply ignore them. Gibson's may not be worth anything like $11 million, but that number - for a business that before the Oberlin temper tantrum had 12 employees - is a hell of a lot closer to a realistic estimate than Oberlin's claim of $35,000.

    Oberlin's lawyers could have saved their client a shitload of money if they had been more charitable in their estimates. Even if they had agreed that the bakery was worth $4 million, that plus the 3x in punitive damages would have saved Oberlin $28 million on the verdict.

    I don't know what the odds are on winning an appeal, but I don't think they can appeal based on the fact that they, Oberlin College, screwed up in lowballing the value of the bakery.

    A simple public apology and a small settlement, far, far less than what they paid to their own lawyers, would have gotten them out of the entire mess. The Party failed to understand that while they had indeed captured Oberlin, and could alter reality in whatever way the Party demanded, they had not yet captured Ohio, and the law of gravity still applied there.

  76. @Cagey Beast
    OT:
    This story from South Africa may be a look into the future. South Asian oligarchs hired a London PR firm to stoke anti-White resentments in order to distract from ANC corruption:

    How Bell Pottinger, P.R. Firm for Despots and Rogues, Met Its End in South Africa
    The British firm Bell Pottinger, hired by three brothers now caught up in a nationwide corruption scandal, helped drive racial tensions to levels not felt since apartheid.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/business/bell-pottinger-guptas-zuma-south-africa.html
  77. There can never be enough lawsuits. Sue them all.

  78. @Almost Missouri
    It is a larger business than just a bakery, more of a general store plus liquor store, and its lost business includes daily orders for the College's dining facilities. $11 million is probably about 3 or 4 years of their gross sales. Of course in real life, gross sales come with costs of sales, so the actual profits are much lower, but that is the kind of nuance that is lost on juries. But in this case, I don't mind.

    "Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?"
     
    Pretty much.

    This is what wokeness is all about. Craven conformity.

    The formula used was 30 years times lost sales. Excessive but a window into how mad the jurors were.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys, but that's ridiculous. A business like that might sell for 5x annual PROFITS, not sales. No one will pay you $1 for $1 of lost sales 30 years from now. Of that $1, maybe a few pennies drops to the bottom line and then you have to discount it for present value. If the shoe was on the other foot, everyone here would be decrying the ridiculousness of the award. This was a cute little business but no one would have given them $1M for it let alone $11.
  79. While reading the Legal Insurrection articles I came across a quote from some school administrator to the effect of “Gibson’s will be fine [despite the cancellation of orders and protests] because they own so much prime real estate downtown.”

    That suggests the school’s encouragement of the protests might have been due to something other than ideology. Perhaps they wanted to twist the Gibsons’ arm to force them to sell some of that prime real estate to Oberlin at a lower price. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if that was part of the reason for all this.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    That suggests the school’s encouragement of the protests might have been due to something other than ideology. Perhaps they wanted to twist the Gibsons’ arm to force them to sell some of that prime real estate to Oberlin at a lower price. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if that was part of the reason for all this.
     
    Interesting angle - extortion. Universities are notorious gobblers of real-estate.
    , @Anonymous
    Yes, I've seen talk of this. It's dismissed as a 'conspiracy theory' of course.
    , @Weltanschauung
    From the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:


    A message sent by associate professor of music theory Jan Miyake said, “So heres one rhing (sic) on my mind about gibsons. They own so much prime property in oberlin that boycotting doesnt hurt them that much. The smear on their brand does, and that’s been taken care of.”

    The transcript of Miyake’s message was included in a recently unsealed court filing made by the attorneys for Gibson’s as part of the lawsuit filed against the college and Meredith Raimondo, vice president and dean of students, for libel, slander, interference with business relationships, interference with contracts, deceptive trade practices, intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligent hiring and trespass.

    The document also included some testimony given by Miyake during a deposition for the case. Miyake was asked what she meant by “the smear on their brand does.”

    “So the — I — it’s –—that hurts to have your brand smeared,” Miyake said. “So boycotting them doesn’t really hurt them, but having your brand hurt.”

    When asked how Gibson’s brand was smeared, Miyake said, “They protested outside the store for three days chanting, ‘Racists.’”

    Miyake was then asked what she’d meant that the smear of the brand had been taken care of.

    “It — it means that there’s no reason to keep doing that,” she said. “It’s done.”

     

    In her artless way, this professor offered an pretty good exposition of why defamation is a tort, in the course of confirming that she had been boasting of successfully committing it.
  80. Anonymous[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    The jury found only the college guilty of inflicting emotional distress on both Gibson’s and only Ms. Raimondo responsible for tortious interference of business relationships. …
     
    Ms. Raimondo should have known what any witch worth her salt knows, that casting evil spells can backfire.

    But even though she cost her employer $44 million, this harridan is probably in no danger of even a mild rebuke, let alone unemployment.

    Does she really have that much power? I can’t imagine she stays on even if they don’t publicly pink-slip the nasty woman. $44 million here, $44 million there, pretty soon you’re talking real money

  81. I have followed this case, and the anti-Gupta push, a fair bit. If you are interested in some background, I strongly recommend the excellent “Bring me my machine gun”

  82. Anonymous[565] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cagey Beast
    OT:
    This story from South Africa may be a look into the future. South Asian oligarchs hired a London PR firm to stoke anti-White resentments in order to distract from ANC corruption:

    How Bell Pottinger, P.R. Firm for Despots and Rogues, Met Its End in South Africa
    The British firm Bell Pottinger, hired by three brothers now caught up in a nationwide corruption scandal, helped drive racial tensions to levels not felt since apartheid.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/business/bell-pottinger-guptas-zuma-south-africa.html

    There are a couple of threads on that in last year’s archive.

    The ANC had gotten so used to pushing ordinary whites around that it decided to start pushing bankers and mine-owners around as well. It received a sharp reminder that some ‘whites’ push back – and hard. The SA prime minister was ousted from power, a major humiliation. The ANC took revenge by stepping up its harassment of white farmers, which prompted international protests, notably including Trump. Since then things have gone quiet.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    'some ‘whites’ push back '

    What actually happened was some south asian upstarts tried to use the ANC to steal a major airport terminal from one of SA's oldest and most powerful Jewish families. Blacks are easily incited, in this case by Indians, but soon remembered who really owns SA. It was the end of the Guptas and the end of Zuma.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Since then things have gone quiet.

    Things have gone quiet since Stefan Smit was murdered less than two weeks ago?

    June 3, 2019

    JOHANNESBURG — A South African farmer whose vineyard in the Stellenbosch wine region had been occupied by shack dwellers since last year has been shot and killed in his home, heightening tensions amid a contentious national debate over the ownership of land.

    Four men entered the house of the farmer, Stefan Smit, on Sunday evening before killing him, said Lt. Col. Andre Traut, a police spokesman. Mr. Smit’s home is about 30 miles east of Cape Town,
  83. @Anon
    I'm beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a "How Dare They Think We're Wrong," email to alumni while the trial was still going.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    Here's a picture of Donica:

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    Donica? Now how did I know what demographic Ms. Donica’s photo was going to reveal.

  84. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Totally OT:

    H2 2019 is shaping up to be a great run for movies.

    Here's the trailer for Dauntless, another take on the Battle of Midway, which was one of history's great stretches of white men organizing and going out to kick ass:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnrL47mdOTg

    This doesn’t seem possible.

  85. Jury Dings Oberlin $44 Million for Anti-White Libel Against a Neighborhood Bakery

    How do you like them cookies, Dean Raimondo?

  86. @Bill P
    While reading the Legal Insurrection articles I came across a quote from some school administrator to the effect of "Gibson's will be fine [despite the cancellation of orders and protests] because they own so much prime real estate downtown."

    That suggests the school's encouragement of the protests might have been due to something other than ideology. Perhaps they wanted to twist the Gibsons' arm to force them to sell some of that prime real estate to Oberlin at a lower price. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was part of the reason for all this.

    That suggests the school’s encouragement of the protests might have been due to something other than ideology. Perhaps they wanted to twist the Gibsons’ arm to force them to sell some of that prime real estate to Oberlin at a lower price. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if that was part of the reason for all this.

    Interesting angle – extortion. Universities are notorious gobblers of real-estate.

  87. @Polynikes
    I find it hard to believe they have anybody worth a crap doing anything there. I was a div 3 level athlete twenty years ago looking for schools. Even back then it was known they were liberal loon balls who had no money (ie no "financial aid"), and nobody wanted to go there.


    Maybe they've capitalized on the last decade's focus on batshit insane diversity liberalism (of which they were well ahead of the curve) that's swept the nation and got some "Soros money?"

    “I find it hard to believe they have anybody worth a crap doing anything there.”

    they don’t.

    we could get rid of 50% of colleges with zero effect on STEM or sports output.

    there’s way too many colleges now.

    it’s not necessary to extend the talent search all the way down to the floor in order to produce results that matter.

    since every college is now either a leftist bastion, or target for leftist takeover, the fewer colleges, the better. these small private colleges are just leftist manufacturing centers in 2019. even williams, the best one, is going that way. i got into williams, but didn’t go there. 25 years ago, stuff like this was unthinkable at these places.

    we really need no more than 100 colleges at most. not the 500 we have today.

    • Replies: @jon

    we could get rid of 50% of colleges with zero effect on STEM or sports output.
     
    Lol, because what would we do without our precious sports output?
  88. @Thomas
    Dindu nuffins didn't get their muffins.

    Even with Oberlin’s huffin’ and puffin’.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    an da Gibsons got the drumstick, gravy and stuffin'.
  89. @Paul Rise
    Oberlin is a joke but this is an excessive judgement. It really illustrates how much the community must despise the university though.

    What I'd like to see is a judgement against it for posing as a institute of higher learning.

    Oberlin is a joke but this is an excessive judgement.

    No, it really isn’t.

    • Agree: TWS
  90. Anonymous[565] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    I'm beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a "How Dare They Think We're Wrong," email to alumni while the trial was still going.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    Here's a picture of Donica:

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    (1) Who is her boss? Who does she answer to? (2) Why didn’t they tell her to shut up?

    • Replies: @imper(v)ious
    She's the HDIC. The Head Donica In Charge.
    , @William Badwhite
    https://www.oberlin.edu/president

    Two sistahs and a crazed lefty tattooed cat lady cost them (hopefully) $44mm. A pyramid of arrogance and stupidity.
  91. “The lawsuit stems from an incident on Nov. 9, 2016”

    Well now, the court should have considered that as an extenuating circumstance. On Nov. 9, 2016, every white person in America was a double-dog-Nazi by Narrative decree.

    • LOL: Unladen Swallow
  92. There was also the lab coats hanging in a lab that promoted hysterical KKK on campus tweets and emails. Oberlin was one of the main civil propaganda outlets. Is it Quaker, Univeralist or some other Puritan off shoot.

    Every college in the country should be shut down and every employee except janitors sent to a gulag.

  93. Anonymous[565] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    While reading the Legal Insurrection articles I came across a quote from some school administrator to the effect of "Gibson's will be fine [despite the cancellation of orders and protests] because they own so much prime real estate downtown."

    That suggests the school's encouragement of the protests might have been due to something other than ideology. Perhaps they wanted to twist the Gibsons' arm to force them to sell some of that prime real estate to Oberlin at a lower price. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was part of the reason for all this.

    Yes, I’ve seen talk of this. It’s dismissed as a ‘conspiracy theory’ of course.

  94. @Sextus Empiricus
    “The students originally claimed their arrests were racially motivated but later backtracked on those claims and pleaded guilty to misdemeanors in court.“

    That’s a lot of trouble for the sake of a couple of lying, slandering and thieving diversity admits. And is there no honor code at Oberlin?

    The honor codes at our military academies are pretty much a dead letter now. What makes you think something like that would be in force at place run by lunatic leftists?

  95. @Lot
    Easter tradition in Spain:

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/30/04/271C98D200000578-0-image-a-76_1427685498683.jpg

    Triggered!

    I’m shocked! Girls are allowed to wear those too?

    Nothing is sacred anymore.

  96. @Polynikes
    I find it hard to believe they have anybody worth a crap doing anything there. I was a div 3 level athlete twenty years ago looking for schools. Even back then it was known they were liberal loon balls who had no money (ie no "financial aid"), and nobody wanted to go there.


    Maybe they've capitalized on the last decade's focus on batshit insane diversity liberalism (of which they were well ahead of the curve) that's swept the nation and got some "Soros money?"

    Oberlin’s been batshit crazy since it was founded before the civil war. I think it was an off shoot of those utopian Puritan communities, not the Shakers or Oneida but something similar.

    Buttinsky central; abolitionists, Prohibitionists anti private schools just like the KKK lesbian central even 150 years ago Quakers Universalists puritans health food alternative medicine freakos. But above all, the curse of America, the minions of Satan on earth, anti White liberals.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  97. Oberlin and Hillsdale were the first colleges to admit blacks. Boy, have they ever diverged in the meantime.

  98. @Wilkey

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages. Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?
     
    According to one article I read the attorneys for Oberlin College argued that the bakery was only worth $35,000. In part, I guess, they argued that's because all it was "really worth" was the difference between what the owners were taking home and what they might have been taking home if working for someone else, which is an incredibly condescending way to estimate damages.

    My wife served on the jury for a civil trial a few years ago. She said that the plaintiff alleged ridiculously high damages and the jury's response was to simply ignore them. Gibson's may not be worth anything like $11 million, but that number - for a business that before the Oberlin temper tantrum had 12 employees - is a hell of a lot closer to a realistic estimate than Oberlin's claim of $35,000.

    Oberlin's lawyers could have saved their client a shitload of money if they had been more charitable in their estimates. Even if they had agreed that the bakery was worth $4 million, that plus the 3x in punitive damages would have saved Oberlin $28 million on the verdict.

    I don't know what the odds are on winning an appeal, but I don't think they can appeal based on the fact that they, Oberlin College, screwed up in lowballing the value of the bakery.

    Oberlin’s lawyers could have saved their client a shitload of money if they had been more charitable in their estimates.

    And they really could have saved their client a lot of money if they had instruct their client to 1) admit that the entire thing was a con. 2) fired the administrator responsible 2) suspended/expelled the miscreant students 3) publicly apologized, 4) and offered to pay legal costs and throw in a few thousand for all the plaintiff’s trouble. This is the way things are handled between civilized, trusting parties.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    This was not driven by their lawyers. I'll bet the lawyers counseled them to settle in some fashion, if not the total abdication that you propose. If on day one, they had called up the other side and said, "here's half a million and we sign a confidential settlement agreement tomorrow before we've all spent a lot on legal fees," the other side would have taken it.


    But the Oberlin administration wouldn't hear of it - they had RACIAL JUSTICE on their side and were full of righteous anger. No way were they going to give any money to those racist white crackers. It's not the administrator's own money anyway, so it's no problem to piss the endowment away rather than causing the admins to lose face.
  99. @Almost Missouri
    Hail Victory!

    The jury didn't have to award anything. Instead they unloaded both barrels on Oberlin, giving the maximum punitive award plus attorney fees.

    The Gibson attorneys did their job, awakening a just and righteous anger in the jury.

    Yeah, Oberlin will try to get it reduced on appeal, but they have to allege some kind of legal miscarriage—the facts are all established, and the jury did their job in the methodical Midwestern way: accounted for the facts and awarded prescribed damages within the law. Oberlin might get lucky and get some pussy appellate judge, but ultimately Oberlin's gonna have to shell out a lotta coin one way or another: either paying it, fighting it, or settling it. And their insurance won't cover them. This is coming straight outta their rotten hide.

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.

    Feels good, man.

    A local jury was probably composed of locals sick and tired of Oberlin’s condescension and hatred of the Midwest. Iberlin rrally belongs in a liberal loony place like San Francisco or NYC.

    The school’s probably deeply embarrassed about its location in conservative heartland America.

  100. @Anon
    According to the article, "Oberlin attorney Matthew Nakon clarified Mr. Rarric’s numeric claims, saying the college has been operating in an unsustainable deficit situation year after year — a situation caused largely by substantial declines in enrollment. "

    "He stated that annual student charges for tuition and room and board are roughly $70,000."

    Holy, Moses, that's insane. No wonder their enrollment is dropping. Middle-class wage earners can't afford that, and that's bad even for upper-middle earners. But there's something strange here. Yes, enrollment can decline, but we're living in an era in which people are desperate and even trying to bribe their way into college. There are a ton of libtards from the Northeast who would love to go to a school like Oberlin. It still has a very high academic reputation.

    However, the school also has 200 million's worth of debt. How? Another article states:

    "S&P Global Ratings changed the outlook on its AA rating for the private liberal arts college in Ohio Thursday and said that any further weakening in the school’s finances and failure to return to historical operating performance could pressure the rating on $200 million of debt."

    How'd Oberlin get 200 million of debt with an endowment of 887 million and 1.4 billion in assets?

    I wonder if the 'unsustainable' deficit is due to malfeasance -or even theft-by their black female prexy, Carmen Twillie Ambar. Did she deliberately run up the college's debt? Someone ought to look into Oberlin's finances to find out what's up. Regrettably, it looks like Ambar is going to do to Oberlin what Jane Sanders did to Burlington College.

    $70,000 is a decent muddle class family wage. Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    • Replies: @jon

    Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?
     
    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies
     
    I was particularly impressed that they had both a Hispanic Studies department and a separate Latin American Studies department.
    , @Realist

    Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?
     
    Yes, they offer a number of STEM majors. You could have looked up their course offerings. Oberlin really screwed up with their defamation of the Gibson bakery, but you are trying to defame Oberlin college with a straw man.
    , @Realist
    Oberlin is tied in ranking with the USAF Academy.
    , @Art Deco
    No. They're a 'liberal arts college' in the strict sense: 95% of the teaching manpower is devoted to academics and the arts. Students wanting this experience (and prospective faculty seeking it) are their clientele. Such schools may make an odd concession here and there (Skidmore has a business faculty), but not many. The place I know best has all kinds of cross-listed courses under the victimology headings, but almost none of their students major in those subjects.
    , @Known Fact
    Famed alums include Lena Dunham, Eric Bogosian and Alison Bechdel of Dykes to Watch Out For fame. Also Michelle Malkin.
  101. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.

    Calling someone “racist” in today’s climate pretty much qualifies as a death threat. Not only is the judgment on the low side, it’s outrageous that no one involved will be doing time.

    A long stint in a cold cell in Marysville would concentrate their minds.

    • Agree: International Jew, Ragno
  102. If only the student thieves had targeted a Starbucks instead – Oberlin would be getting a 44 million donation to fight racism right about now.

    • LOL: Sextus Empiricus
  103. anon[370] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna
    Well, that jury was sure loaded for bear. Oberlin will appeal, of course. Their pockets are deep enough that they'll keep appealing until they get the 'justice' they want. Incompetent administrators must be protected at all costs!

    In other news, if you use Google to search for yesterday's Memphis riots, Google returns results from the riot of 1866, back when white ppl misbehaved.

    This sets the stage for a significant settlement. My guess anyway. $8 million sounds about right. Definitely over $5 million.

    Oberlin does have an Umbrella liability policy, although the insurer has stated it intends to contest due to an exclusion for intentional torts. Insurer’s are on the hook for defense costs generally. Plus the insurer could lose. We also don’t know the policy limits.

    In theory, they could litigate indefinitely. But the insurer and the university would find it difficult to live with the uncertainty of the large verdict hanging over their heads.

    The putative damages will likely be reduced.

    But the headline verdict is out there. Even if the insurer pays most of it, or all of it, they will be getting a hefty premium increase their next renewal. All similar Colleges are likely to see a bump in premium.

    This is all speculative, of course. But the UVA rape on campus libel suits got settled fairly quickly. A couple of years being quick with lawsuits.

    This is a landmark case, and a real victory. Institutions with deep pockets will have to distance themselves from indiscriminate charges of racism.

  104. @Anon
    I'm beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a "How Dare They Think We're Wrong," email to alumni while the trial was still going.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    Here's a picture of Donica:

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    I’m beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a “How Dare They Think We’re Wrong,” email to alumni while the trial was still going.

    One of the problems of the Stalinist PC orthodoxy is that it inhibits normal people from normal questioning.

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say “Hey maybe we shouldn’t let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones … lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there’s some male rationality and sanity around the table.”

    • Replies: @Moses

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say “Hey maybe we shouldn’t let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones … lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there’s some male rationality and sanity around the table.”
     
    ^This is hate speech.

    Das ist verboten.

    Dox pattern Alpha.
    , @Ibound1
    Now imagine the President, the GC and the Dean of Students running your military, your electric company, your water company, your medical schools, your engineering schools, your monetary and trade policy. Running Oberlin is meaningless. They intend to run the country.
    , @Jack D
    Because "diversity" doesn't really mean diversity. You might say , well, "diverse" voices such as blacks and lesbians have been excluded in the past, so let's add some to the mix - it will be like putting some chili spice in this boring bland white man stew. It can't cause too much damage because white guys will still be in charge and we'll put the diverse in some "safe" place like HR. But in their mind, an institution is not really "diverse" until ALL the hateful white men are gone. HR controls hiring so over time the institution becomes woke from top to bottom.
    , @Desiderius

    no one is allowed
     
    When the going gets tough Boomerdads get passive.
  105. @Anonymous
    (1) Who is her boss? Who does she answer to? (2) Why didn't they tell her to shut up?

    She’s the HDIC. The Head Donica In Charge.

  106. @Buffalo Joe
    Alec, Unlike NY, where I live, lots of shops in Ohio sell wine, but not liquor. I doubt the bakery sold beer, because that requires a lot of shelf space and stockroom space. One bottle of wine costs more than a six pack. However, any business with a 150 year history is doing something right.

    However, any business with a 150 year history is doing something right.

    Like, er, New York Times?

  107. Sung to the tune of “Sister Christian” (Night Ranger):

    Mister Gibson now the time has come,
    Oberlin College is the one that has to pay,
    Okay.
    Where you goin’, what you gonna do?
    You know those boys don’t wanna steal no more from you.
    It’s true.

    Oberlin
    What’s your price to pay?
    44 million, mkay?
    For a bottle of Cabernet.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @the one they call Desanex
    Line 4 should’ve been “Where you goin’, what you lookin’ for?”.
    —Persnickety Stan
  108. @AnotherDad

    I’m beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a “How Dare They Think We’re Wrong,” email to alumni while the trial was still going.
     
    One of the problems of the Stalinist PC orthodoxy is that it inhibits normal people from normal questioning.

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say "Hey maybe we shouldn't let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones ... lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there's some male rationality and sanity around the table."

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say “Hey maybe we shouldn’t let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones … lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there’s some male rationality and sanity around the table.”

    ^This is hate speech.

    Das ist verboten.

    Dox pattern Alpha.

    • LOL: Dan Hayes
  109. @anonymous
    As I understand it, $11 million is not supposed to be what the business was worth, rather it was the estimate for the totality of lost income to the business, from the past several years and as long into the future as Oberlin's libel would have negatively affected their sales. It is not an unreasonable number if you consider a ~15 year effect and that they did enough business to have up to 12 employees at one time.

    The majority of the original 11 million was awarded for emotional distress and not for loss of business.

    • Replies: @Moses

    The majority of the original 11 million was awarded for emotional distress and not for loss of business.
     
    Good for them.

    It sounds like the owners went through an Oberlin-sponsored hell of demonization and abuse.

    Mark one up for sanity and rule of law.

  110. These ‘Conversations’ about ‘Racism’ they are always demanding apparently don’t go very well for them in a court of law.

  111. @GermanReader2
    The majority of the original 11 million was awarded for emotional distress and not for loss of business.

    The majority of the original 11 million was awarded for emotional distress and not for loss of business.

    Good for them.

    It sounds like the owners went through an Oberlin-sponsored hell of demonization and abuse.

    Mark one up for sanity and rule of law.

  112. To: Unz Review Readers

    From: JackOH

    The good guys won. They won through the existing legal system, and despite a less than favorable national Zeitgeist. That’s a breakthrough with good political opportunities.

    Imagine a “Gibson’s Rally 2019” in which Ron or one of his surrogates tells a national TV interviewer: “That’s right. This verdict says a lot. The solution to anti-Black racism is not anti-White racism. That’s what our government has wrongly promoted for 60 years, and which institutions such as Oberlin have promoted through misguided teaching and activism. That’s just wrong, and that’s why we’re here to support Gibson’s and small retailers everywhere. Try their Danish, will ya’.”

    I sent my letter of support to Gibson’s yesterday morning.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  113. @Dude
    Not noted in the article is that video exists of the student attempting to steal the bottle of wine. Oberlin knew that and still acted with malice and tried to destroy the bakery. Because black bodies are sacred.

    Do you have a link for that? I was just reading on another site that the bakery didn’t have any CCTV.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    It really makes no difference. He saw the dindu put the wine in his backpack and presumably when the cops arrested the dindu (he didn't see them coming because he and his girlfriends had the shopkeeper on the ground and were busy beating the white out of him) it was still there. The dindu plead guilty and admitted that he had stolen the wine and that there was no racial element to the incident.
  114. @Almost Missouri
    Hail Victory!

    The jury didn't have to award anything. Instead they unloaded both barrels on Oberlin, giving the maximum punitive award plus attorney fees.

    The Gibson attorneys did their job, awakening a just and righteous anger in the jury.

    Yeah, Oberlin will try to get it reduced on appeal, but they have to allege some kind of legal miscarriage—the facts are all established, and the jury did their job in the methodical Midwestern way: accounted for the facts and awarded prescribed damages within the law. Oberlin might get lucky and get some pussy appellate judge, but ultimately Oberlin's gonna have to shell out a lotta coin one way or another: either paying it, fighting it, or settling it. And their insurance won't cover them. This is coming straight outta their rotten hide.

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.

    Feels good, man.

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.

    Not happening. Quite the contrary, pundits are already sharpening their figurative pencils and preparing essays on how this heartland jury evidences the systemic racism and sexism we’ve been telling you about for five decades now.

    Whatever happens, those who own and run the media get to decide what means what. It doesn’t really matter what the evidence is. All that matters is how they spin it.

    This’ll be just one more bit of ammo for the reckoning beginning late next year. Seriously: Do you really think anything will cause America’s enemies to stop and consider the error of their ways? Seriously?

    • Replies: @Svigor

    Do you really think anything will cause America’s enemies to stop and consider the error of their ways? Seriously?
     
    "Anything." You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
    , @Clyde

    Not happening. Quite the contrary, pundits are already sharpening their figurative pencils and preparing essays on how this heartland jury evidences the systemic racism and sexism we’ve been telling you about for five decades now.
     
    And to think that Oberlins will have to pay out tens of millions all because their black student tried to steal a bottle of wine from Gibsons. Nothing would have happened to him if he surrendered back the wine. But no. He and his two girl friends started beating on the owners son on the sidewalk outside. Leading to a public spectacle that police responded to.
    The Oberlin mess is all because a brainless dindu nuffin (how is he paying for Oberlin?) insisted that he dindu nuffin by whaling on the Gibson son who was in charge. Dindu was offended that the Gibson stopped him from taking what was rightfully his. Reparations from The Man.
  115. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    The bakery was only about $2-3 million of the damages, the rest was for defamation of the father-son owners.

  116. @prime noticer
    "I find it hard to believe they have anybody worth a crap doing anything there."

    they don't.

    we could get rid of 50% of colleges with zero effect on STEM or sports output.

    there's way too many colleges now.

    it's not necessary to extend the talent search all the way down to the floor in order to produce results that matter.

    since every college is now either a leftist bastion, or target for leftist takeover, the fewer colleges, the better. these small private colleges are just leftist manufacturing centers in 2019. even williams, the best one, is going that way. i got into williams, but didn't go there. 25 years ago, stuff like this was unthinkable at these places.

    we really need no more than 100 colleges at most. not the 500 we have today.

    we could get rid of 50% of colleges with zero effect on STEM or sports output.

    Lol, because what would we do without our precious sports output?

    • Agree: Svigor, Realist
  117. a conscious disregard of the rights and safety of others that has a great probability of causing substantial harm.

    There, that right there. What’s the name for that? Because that’s what Jews are collectively guilty of doing to Whites. At best.

  118. @Mr McKenna

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.
     
    Not happening. Quite the contrary, pundits are already sharpening their figurative pencils and preparing essays on how this heartland jury evidences the systemic racism and sexism we've been telling you about for five decades now.

    Whatever happens, those who own and run the media get to decide what means what. It doesn't really matter what the evidence is. All that matters is how they spin it.

    This'll be just one more bit of ammo for the reckoning beginning late next year. Seriously: Do you really think anything will cause America's enemies to stop and consider the error of their ways? Seriously?

    Do you really think anything will cause America’s enemies to stop and consider the error of their ways? Seriously?

    “Anything.” You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

  119. jon says:
    @Alden
    $70,000 is a decent muddle class family wage. Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies

    I was particularly impressed that they had both a Hispanic Studies department and a separate Latin American Studies department.

    • Replies: @Realist

    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies
     
    Your reply is disingenuous. They also offer a number of STEM majors. Most colleges offer the courses you listed, including MIT, Stanford and Princeton.
  120. @Lot
    Easter tradition in Spain:

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/30/04/271C98D200000578-0-image-a-76_1427685498683.jpg

    Triggered!

    Mine better:

    • Replies: @Lot
    Lol you’ll find your Klan-lolli one of these days, never give up.
  121. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    That entire paragraph echoes.

  122. @Alec Leamas
    I think this is a microcosm of wokeness - left wing, mostly white people willfully believing the fanciful excuses of people of color who get themselves in trouble after doing stupid things and then doubling down in the face of dispositive contrary evidence as a show of virtue.

    Obviously they didn't incite a riot that razed an American city or exurb, but the fundamentals are the same.

    I’m not sure white people really have to believe in anything, anymore. At this point the train’s built up such a head of steam, whites would have to believe in something to stop it.

  123. @Mr McKenna

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.
     
    Not happening. Quite the contrary, pundits are already sharpening their figurative pencils and preparing essays on how this heartland jury evidences the systemic racism and sexism we've been telling you about for five decades now.

    Whatever happens, those who own and run the media get to decide what means what. It doesn't really matter what the evidence is. All that matters is how they spin it.

    This'll be just one more bit of ammo for the reckoning beginning late next year. Seriously: Do you really think anything will cause America's enemies to stop and consider the error of their ways? Seriously?

    Not happening. Quite the contrary, pundits are already sharpening their figurative pencils and preparing essays on how this heartland jury evidences the systemic racism and sexism we’ve been telling you about for five decades now.

    And to think that Oberlins will have to pay out tens of millions all because their black student tried to steal a bottle of wine from Gibsons. Nothing would have happened to him if he surrendered back the wine. But no. He and his two girl friends started beating on the owners son on the sidewalk outside. Leading to a public spectacle that police responded to.
    The Oberlin mess is all because a brainless dindu nuffin (how is he paying for Oberlin?) insisted that he dindu nuffin by whaling on the Gibson son who was in charge. Dindu was offended that the Gibson stopped him from taking what was rightfully his. Reparations from The Man.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Jack D
    No, this didn't happen because of the dindu's. Dindus do what dindus always do since time immemorial. That hasn't changed.

    This happened because the reaction of the college (which is supposed to be run by adults) was not to expel the dindus for honor code violation as they should have, but rather condemn the business owner for being "racist" and then help to organize a boycott of the business using the students as their goons. They also demanded that in the future the business owner not call the police on shoplifters (especially when they were black Oberlin students). Instead of upholding the standards of true justice and morality ("thou shalt not steal") they opted for "racial" justice - they lost sight of their mission.
  124. @Paul Rise
    Oberlin is a joke but this is an excessive judgement. It really illustrates how much the community must despise the university though.

    What I'd like to see is a judgement against it for posing as a institute of higher learning.

    The community responded to Oberlin’s hate campaign against Gibson’s by organizing a buy-in at the bakery. Photos showed the place was packed.

  125. @prime noticer
    wasn't this because the oberlin administration ran their mouths after the court had ruled against them, but before awarding the plaintiff?

    oberlin's reply that oh my gosh, we're just a small liberal arts college and how in the world could we afford to pay 44 million, was extra funny.

    also humorous was how their insurance company said nope, your policy doesn't cover this. we ain't paying.

    has anybody else been on the oberlin campus? i was, decades ago. amazing how far the enemy has advanced since then. now rinky dink oberlin is attacking bakers.

    “… oberlin’s reply that oh my gosh, we’re just a small liberal arts college and how in the world could we afford to pay 44 million, was extra funny.”

    Did anyone tell them they could take out loans to cover that? You know, non-recourse loans, not the non-dischargeable recourse types their slaves have to take out for the privilege of indoctrination.

    • LOL: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Oh man, that's a nugget and a half!
  126. @Almost Missouri
    Hail Victory!

    The jury didn't have to award anything. Instead they unloaded both barrels on Oberlin, giving the maximum punitive award plus attorney fees.

    The Gibson attorneys did their job, awakening a just and righteous anger in the jury.

    Yeah, Oberlin will try to get it reduced on appeal, but they have to allege some kind of legal miscarriage—the facts are all established, and the jury did their job in the methodical Midwestern way: accounted for the facts and awarded prescribed damages within the law. Oberlin might get lucky and get some pussy appellate judge, but ultimately Oberlin's gonna have to shell out a lotta coin one way or another: either paying it, fighting it, or settling it. And their insurance won't cover them. This is coming straight outta their rotten hide.

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.

    Feels good, man.

    That slight tectonic tremor you just felt was the SJW job market contracting all across North America as colleges, universities, news bureaus, NGOs and other casual funders of domestic terrorists rethink their priorities.

    Not sure I felt tremors, but the collective SJW Media/Academic/political sphincter should have done a major contraction. We now have civil precedent. Lordie, wherever a statute of limitations exists and not been exceeded, others can now be sued. Oberlin isn’t the only one, not even the worst of them. Every newspaper, every magazine, every PAC that pushes these unfounded accusations need to be brought up just like Oberlin. The lawyers have GOT to be licking their chops, sharpening their knives. It’s a start. I wondered at all this when Hulk Hogan sank Gawker. Different situation, but same effect. There’s a weariness of media and by extention, academia in the air perhaps. Their well-known greed is certainly a consideration. People who pay tuition know.

  127. @Anon
    I'm beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a "How Dare They Think We're Wrong," email to alumni while the trial was still going.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    Here's a picture of Donica:

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    Any outfit hiring a Negress as general counsel is asking for a shitstorm of troubles; every lawyer worth his salt knows they belong working as HR ladies, business-development, recruiting, some bullshit office of diversity…but as the g-d-damned general counsel?!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I don't think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin. There are no adults left in the room, just tattooed fat Lefist ladies like Dean Raimondo and other blacks, gays, Communists, hippies, etc. Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.

    The good news is that I think that this judgment is (hopefully) what kicks them into high gear on their death spiral. Their enrollment has been declining and the bad publicity from this suit will affect the applications from future snowflakes and their parents. There is a limited number of people whose parents are willing to spend $300,000 on a worthless degree.

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    You are being awfully generous in your occupational pigeonholing for negresses that should be ironing my starched long sleeved button down collar 100% cotton Oxford shirts.
  128. @Anon
    According to the article, "Oberlin attorney Matthew Nakon clarified Mr. Rarric’s numeric claims, saying the college has been operating in an unsustainable deficit situation year after year — a situation caused largely by substantial declines in enrollment. "

    "He stated that annual student charges for tuition and room and board are roughly $70,000."

    Holy, Moses, that's insane. No wonder their enrollment is dropping. Middle-class wage earners can't afford that, and that's bad even for upper-middle earners. But there's something strange here. Yes, enrollment can decline, but we're living in an era in which people are desperate and even trying to bribe their way into college. There are a ton of libtards from the Northeast who would love to go to a school like Oberlin. It still has a very high academic reputation.

    However, the school also has 200 million's worth of debt. How? Another article states:

    "S&P Global Ratings changed the outlook on its AA rating for the private liberal arts college in Ohio Thursday and said that any further weakening in the school’s finances and failure to return to historical operating performance could pressure the rating on $200 million of debt."

    How'd Oberlin get 200 million of debt with an endowment of 887 million and 1.4 billion in assets?

    I wonder if the 'unsustainable' deficit is due to malfeasance -or even theft-by their black female prexy, Carmen Twillie Ambar. Did she deliberately run up the college's debt? Someone ought to look into Oberlin's finances to find out what's up. Regrettably, it looks like Ambar is going to do to Oberlin what Jane Sanders did to Burlington College.

    How’d Oberlin get 200 million of debt with an endowment of 887 million and 1.4 billion in assets

    When interest rates are as low as they have been for the past decade, it would be dumb NOT to borrow money to finance projects. You are paying near nothing on the borrowed funds, while earning more on the funds you hold in other investments.

    Others who know more should correct me, but I would expect that endowment funds are housed in trusts or other SPV’s that are sheltered from the operations of the school.

    • Replies: @Fabian Forge
    Yes. When lending to an endowed not for profit you need to look at the unencumbered vs encumbered portion of the endowment, but most importantly at cash flow (tuition). I recall reports that the rating agencies are responding to the verdict by looking to revise down Oberlin's bond ratings, which would increase the cost of their existing variable rate debt and make new debt more expensive.

    Borrowing is especially good for schools as they usually issue bonds through a state development agency, making them tax exempt, further lowering the rate. This even works for private colleges like Oberlin.
  129. @Arclight
    I am not a lawyer, but from what I know of this case it seems to me an appeal would be successful in greatly reducing the financial impact of this on Oberlin. At any rate, here's to hoping it sticks.

    From the Legal Insurrection blog:

    For those who have speculated that these jury verdicts will be pared down substantially or denied by an appeals court, that also is not good speculation. Yes, there will likely be appeals, but in order to win an appeal in a civil tort case, Oberlin College would have to prove that Judge Miraldi and the jury made egregious decision that went against Ohio law. For those of us in the courtroom, and for legal observers who know more about this than me, appeals reversals are unlikely. And Miraldi was very careful in setting the bar pretty high on evidentiary rulings.

    Appeals courts are generally required to accept the jury’s take on the facts as a given and can reverse only if there was an error in the way that the law was applied (e.g. the judge gave them erroneous instructions or allowed the jury to hear inflammatory evidence that should have been excluded, etc.). This is a high burden. In a politically charged case like this, it might happen if the court was ultra-liberal and wanted to help Oberlin out, but Ohio is not California.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Ah yes, but you fail to understand: we live not in a republic, but under the iron reign of Hawaiian Federal Judge. Hawaiian Federal Judge makes Ohio law, national law, immigration law, quantum law, Gypsy law, circus law, Presidential law!! With just a flutter of his magic robes, Hawaiian Federal Ninth Circuit Obama Super Harvard Intersectional Judge Of Color can leap tall buildings, bend steel with his bare hands, nullify the Second Amendment with his x-Ray anti-racist vision, and carve Roe v. Wade in eternal, super-indestructible Plutonian Lovecraftian STONE!!

    Reversing Oberlin v. Sane People will be walk in the park... that is, the park built over Donald Trump's impeachment GRAVE!!!!
    , @ben tillman
    I know you're not a trial lawyer, but the point here is that Ohio law includes the concept of "libel per se", in cases of which the Plaintiff need not prove damages. They are presumed. Is there a legal cap on the amount of damages that can be "presumed" without proof in Ohio? That's a crucial question, at least for the defamation causes of action. However, Ohio seems to allow soft damages (mental distress etc.) for most or all of the torts in question, which decreases the importance of the dubious business valuation evidence.
  130. @prime noticer
    wasn't this because the oberlin administration ran their mouths after the court had ruled against them, but before awarding the plaintiff?

    oberlin's reply that oh my gosh, we're just a small liberal arts college and how in the world could we afford to pay 44 million, was extra funny.

    also humorous was how their insurance company said nope, your policy doesn't cover this. we ain't paying.

    has anybody else been on the oberlin campus? i was, decades ago. amazing how far the enemy has advanced since then. now rinky dink oberlin is attacking bakers.

    wasn’t this because the oberlin administration ran their mouths after the court had ruled against them, but before awarding the plaintiff?

    No, the judge specifically disallowed the use of the email to Oberlin alumni you are referring to. Because it was not used (since it did not exist) during the trial. However, some of the content was elicited from Oberlin witnesses on the stand during the hearing on punitive damages.

    A commentator suggested that perhaps allowing use of the email may have given an opening for Oberlin to include its use to the detriment of the plaintiffs in the appeal that will surely come. So… maybe a good thing. And as we now know, unnecessary.

  131. @anonymous
    Interestingly, the WaPo article you are referring to which obfuscates about the shoplifting was last week's one reporting on the jury finding for the defendants for the $11 million compensatory damages.

    In today's recent WaPo article about the $33 million punitive damages they are right up front about the shoplifting and assault! Is today's result starting to make WaPo nervous about their own reckoning with a heartland libel jury, in the Covington Catholic lawsuit?

    The recent story was an AP story off the wire, not written by a WaPo reporter. AP is not as woke as WaPo.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Jack D:

    While the AP might not be as woke as the WaPo, it nevertheless is still quite markedly woke!
  132. Colleges are a microcosm of society now in a new and interesting way. The US economy is kind of a pyramid scheme – it devotes most of its energy to getting more marks (immigrants) instead of producing things. Most colleges are totally pyramid schemes – a bunch of do-nothing administrators dependent on getting more marks – students. The primary job of the big shots in both the corporations and colleges is to make sure the marks keep coming and to hide the scheme under the holy shroud of diversity. Oberlin just got a dose of reality, but what will happen when the US as a whole gets one?

  133. @Mike1
    The formula used was 30 years times lost sales. Excessive but a window into how mad the jurors were.

    It couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of guys, but that’s ridiculous. A business like that might sell for 5x annual PROFITS, not sales. No one will pay you $1 for $1 of lost sales 30 years from now. Of that $1, maybe a few pennies drops to the bottom line and then you have to discount it for present value. If the shoe was on the other foot, everyone here would be decrying the ridiculousness of the award. This was a cute little business but no one would have given them $1M for it let alone $11.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Discounting to present value is a speculative exercise at best when choosing rates of return and predicting inflation. And the owners may not be interested in speculating according to someone else's arbitrary assumptions being forced upon them.
    , @candid_observer
    Presumably, though, as a family business, the owners have been taking down nice salaries for many decades and reasonably expected to do so into the indefinite future. Maybe it was worth a couple hundred thousand a year to them all in salary and benefits?

    Some consideration has to be given to that.
    , @ben tillman
    It's not all economic damages.
  134. @Jack D
    From the Legal Insurrection blog:


    For those who have speculated that these jury verdicts will be pared down substantially or denied by an appeals court, that also is not good speculation. Yes, there will likely be appeals, but in order to win an appeal in a civil tort case, Oberlin College would have to prove that Judge Miraldi and the jury made egregious decision that went against Ohio law. For those of us in the courtroom, and for legal observers who know more about this than me, appeals reversals are unlikely. And Miraldi was very careful in setting the bar pretty high on evidentiary rulings.
     
    Appeals courts are generally required to accept the jury's take on the facts as a given and can reverse only if there was an error in the way that the law was applied (e.g. the judge gave them erroneous instructions or allowed the jury to hear inflammatory evidence that should have been excluded, etc.). This is a high burden. In a politically charged case like this, it might happen if the court was ultra-liberal and wanted to help Oberlin out, but Ohio is not California.

    Ah yes, but you fail to understand: we live not in a republic, but under the iron reign of Hawaiian Federal Judge. Hawaiian Federal Judge makes Ohio law, national law, immigration law, quantum law, Gypsy law, circus law, Presidential law!! With just a flutter of his magic robes, Hawaiian Federal Ninth Circuit Obama Super Harvard Intersectional Judge Of Color can leap tall buildings, bend steel with his bare hands, nullify the Second Amendment with his x-Ray anti-racist vision, and carve Roe v. Wade in eternal, super-indestructible Plutonian Lovecraftian STONE!!

    Reversing Oberlin v. Sane People will be walk in the park… that is, the park built over Donald Trump’s impeachment GRAVE!!!!

    • LOL: Ibound1
  135. I see the Evan Gerstmann over at Forbes Magazine has his panties in a wad over this “illegal” jury award. Particularly humorous are his bloviations about egregious suppression of freedom of speech.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2019/06/13/ohio-jury-hits-oberlin-college-with-ferocious-and-illegal-punitive-damages/#764ff7d12b9a

    • Replies: @Barnard
    Gerstmann flat out lies several times in his defense of Oberlin. The college wasn't held liable for the student's actions, it was held liable for passing out defamatory fliers at the protest. His claim that the only reason Raimondo was at the protest was to protect the safety of the students is laughable. Why is Steve Forbes allowing this nonsense to run on his website?
  136. @Jack D
    It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys, but that's ridiculous. A business like that might sell for 5x annual PROFITS, not sales. No one will pay you $1 for $1 of lost sales 30 years from now. Of that $1, maybe a few pennies drops to the bottom line and then you have to discount it for present value. If the shoe was on the other foot, everyone here would be decrying the ridiculousness of the award. This was a cute little business but no one would have given them $1M for it let alone $11.

    Discounting to present value is a speculative exercise at best when choosing rates of return and predicting inflation. And the owners may not be interested in speculating according to someone else’s arbitrary assumptions being forced upon them.

  137. Free legal advice from a non lawyer:

    Oberlin should claim there needs to be a new trial because Obies were not allowed to serve on the jury. The way the American democracy is organized students typically are not permitted to vote locally which means they can’t serve on juries. Townies to a person hate dormies, so the jury was biased. Laud mouth woke types could have kept the jury proceeding going on interminably until the townies gave in. Q.E.D.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Nope. The best that Oberlin could hope for would be a change of venue to an adjacent non-college town judicial district.
  138. @Change that Matters
    Oberlin's tag line: "Think one person can change the world? So do we."

    This stuff writes itself.
    ______________________________

    Thinking about finances:

    Tuition, room, board and fees at Oberlin: $73,694

    3,000 students.

    3,000 x $73,694 = $221,082,000

    Someone with inside knowledge here should be able to determine how much of that is profit, and then calculate how long Oberlin will be paying off the $44 million owed.

    This website has a good estimate of what actual cost would be on average for students and puts it at just under $35,000 per student. Pro Publica has the 990s through 2016 if anyone wants to dig into those. The “Is it worth the cost” section on the College Calc page makes a strong case, that no, Oberlin is not worth the cost compared to other schools offering the same programs. They are losing prestige and I would guess are skewing the student body even more toward SJW zealots who are in competition to see who can be the most outraged. There is no evidence Oberlin has the self awareness needed to correct course, if/when the college funding bubble bursts, they will be lucky to survive it.

    http://www.collegecalc.org/colleges/ohio/oberlin-college/

    https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/340714363

  139. @jon

    Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?
     
    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies
     
    I was particularly impressed that they had both a Hispanic Studies department and a separate Latin American Studies department.

    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies

    Your reply is disingenuous. They also offer a number of STEM majors. Most colleges offer the courses you listed, including MIT, Stanford and Princeton.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    "Studies" are the opposite of disciplines.

    Do you judge a school by its weak links, or by its best offerings?at

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this "studies" fluff, though. Such majors at Oberlin and even at major "research" universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.

    , @res
    Courses and departments are different. Here is the list of Oberlin's "academic" departments:
    https://www.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments

    Here is a list of MIT's academic departments. You will notice nothing like jon's examples appears here.
    https://web.mit.edu/facts/academic.html

    And you had the gall to call jon's comment disingenuous. Why do people engage in such blatant projection?

    P.S. If anyone wants more detail, here is a listing of degrees granted by Oberlin in 2016-2017 by field.
    https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/oberlin-college/academic-life/academic-majors/
    , @res
    Courses and departments are different. Here is the list of Oberlin's "academic" departments:
    https://www.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments

    Here is a list of MIT's academic departments. You will notice nothing like jon's examples appears here.
    https://web.mit.edu/facts/academic.html

    And you had the gall to call jon's comment disingenuous. Why do people engage in such blatant projection?

    P.S. If anyone wants more detail, here is a listing of degrees granted by Oberlin in 2016-2017 by field.
    https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/oberlin-college/academic-life/academic-majors/
  140. Forty Four And A Whole Lot More

    Reggie Jackson Is a Decent Baby Boomer

    Reggie Jackson just don’t want to bunt when told to by overly intense baseball manager bully Billy Martin. I identify more with Billy than Reggie because Billy had to be scrappy instead of blasting 563 career home runs like Reggie.

    Reggie Jackson hit 563 home runs, that’s 563 home runs more than me or George Will ever hit.

  141. @AnotherDad

    I’m beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a “How Dare They Think We’re Wrong,” email to alumni while the trial was still going.
     
    One of the problems of the Stalinist PC orthodoxy is that it inhibits normal people from normal questioning.

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say "Hey maybe we shouldn't let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones ... lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there's some male rationality and sanity around the table."

    Now imagine the President, the GC and the Dean of Students running your military, your electric company, your water company, your medical schools, your engineering schools, your monetary and trade policy. Running Oberlin is meaningless. They intend to run the country.

    • Replies: @ChrisZ

    Running Oberlin is meaningless. They intend to run the country.
     
    Not “run.”

    “Ruin.”
    , @Hockamaw
    Outstanding comment. I am afraid you are right.
  142. @Alden
    $70,000 is a decent muddle class family wage. Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    Yes, they offer a number of STEM majors. You could have looked up their course offerings. Oberlin really screwed up with their defamation of the Gibson bakery, but you are trying to defame Oberlin college with a straw man.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Yes, they offer a number of STEM majors.
     
    The widespread prevalence of this sort of thinking (sic), particularly among erstwhile conservatives who should know better, is how Oberlin became the joke it is today.

    When the Left marched through the institutions they were pushing on an open door.
  143. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    http://static.oprah.com/images/archive/201104/20110408-remember-when-5-600x411.jpg

    Why don’t I have a first draft of “The Maccabees”?

    What the phuck have you been doing?

    I’ll type it!

    Who wants to eat?! Who the phuck wants to eat?! Go have something to eat! Hurrrrraaaaayyyyyy!

  144. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    Oberlin, or some individual administrator at Oberlin, sent out an email blast right after the $11 million verdict that, shall we say, showed no remorse. At that time I read a quote from a lawyer to the effect that the email might have cost them $33 million. It couldn’t be just the email, since Oberlin was pretty assholey the whole time, but I reckon that the email cost them, oh, an extra $11 million.

    Ah, I found it:

    Oberlin College mass email criticizing Jurors could influence Punitive Damages Hearing in Gibson’s Bakery case

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    As mentioned numerous times, “from the start of this case I have questioned the aggressive and demeaning attacks on the Gibsons as a defense strategy,” and “I’m still shaking my head at the tone-deafness of the defense in belittling this family business.”

    The next stage is a punitive damages hearing, since the jury found the defendants acted with intent and malice. The point is to keep some of the more inflammatory evidence that does not go to liability or compensatory damages away from the jury during the initial deliberations. That additional evidence relevant to punitive damages could include information as to the wealth of the defendants, but also additional information supporting the need for punishment.

    In this context, there is nothing more baffling than a statement sent to alumni after the verdict by Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin College’s Vice President and General Counsel.

    We would have to know more about Varner’s involvement in overseeing the litigation. But if she was the key point person at the college as to the litigation strategy, she may not be the right person to handle corporate communications.

    Someone with such deep experience as Varner should have known better than to send out such a statement in the middle of trial, particularly on the cusp of a punitive damages hearing. I understand the college felt the need to say something, but first do no harm. Simply send out a mass email, since alumni were going to hear about the verdict through the news, indicating that the college cannot comment since the trial is ongoing.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    "Someone with such deep experience as Varner should have known better.."

    The author simply doesn't know or understand negroes. The phrase "deep experience" is completely out of place here. Although Blacks are capable of creating a simulacrum of white behavior, they don't understand why whites behave as they do.
  145. @Alden
    $70,000 is a decent muddle class family wage. Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    Oberlin is tied in ranking with the USAF Academy.

  146. @Autochthon
    Any outfit hiring a Negress as general counsel is asking for a shitstorm of troubles; every lawyer worth his salt knows they belong working as HR ladies, business-development, recruiting, some bullshit office of diversity...but as the g-d-damned general counsel?!

    I don’t think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin. There are no adults left in the room, just tattooed fat Lefist ladies like Dean Raimondo and other blacks, gays, Communists, hippies, etc. Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.

    The good news is that I think that this judgment is (hopefully) what kicks them into high gear on their death spiral. Their enrollment has been declining and the bad publicity from this suit will affect the applications from future snowflakes and their parents. There is a limited number of people whose parents are willing to spend $300,000 on a worthless degree.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Enrollment at the University of Missouri is down 20+ percent since their bit of wokeness several years ago.

    "From 2015 to 2016, enrollment dropped 22.7 percent and another 14.6 percent from 2016 to 2017."

    https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/updated-spike-in-freshman-enrollment-doesn-t-keep-mu-total/article_4bd2ead2-bdc7-11e8-ae4c-bf4e9b298ca1.html
    , @Alden
    I hadn’t heard or seen mention of Oberlin for decades. Most of the people I know never heard of Oberlin. Even in the1960s it was known as lunatic, lesbian socialist frump. vegetarian weirdo.

    Maybe rural Ohio was a happening place in 1840, but the left’s detestation of small town White America made Oberlin deeply unfashionable. Even Bennington, an all women school somewhere in the frozen forests of New England was more fashionable. Probably should have re located to Chicago, Detroit, Cincinnati St Louis around 1900.

    One enemy down, millions to go.
    , @Realist

    Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.
     
    It doesn't seem to have affected Michelle Malkin's political leaning.
    , @Moses

    I don’t think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin.
     
    My friend's kid (White) got a sports scholarship (lacrosse -- i know!) to Oberlin. Nice kid. Handsome, well behaved, polite and hard-working.

    He had enough of being an object of scorn and hate (White lacrosse player at Oberlin, 'nuff said) and transferred the hell out of there after freshman year.

    His classmates demanded a professor give them all a "guaranteed C" because they were cutting class woke-demonstrating against imaginary evils.

    Because he valued learning and didn't want to cut class his woke classmates spit on him (yes, it actually happened) and called him ... wait for it ... raaaccciiistt.

    He said that was just the tip of the iceberg. He couldn't get out of there fast enough.

    His parents had had enough of this sh*t and expressly shopped around to send their youngest to a supermajority White college.

    The institutionalized anti-White hate on America's campuses is worse than you think.
  147. @Clyde

    Not happening. Quite the contrary, pundits are already sharpening their figurative pencils and preparing essays on how this heartland jury evidences the systemic racism and sexism we’ve been telling you about for five decades now.
     
    And to think that Oberlins will have to pay out tens of millions all because their black student tried to steal a bottle of wine from Gibsons. Nothing would have happened to him if he surrendered back the wine. But no. He and his two girl friends started beating on the owners son on the sidewalk outside. Leading to a public spectacle that police responded to.
    The Oberlin mess is all because a brainless dindu nuffin (how is he paying for Oberlin?) insisted that he dindu nuffin by whaling on the Gibson son who was in charge. Dindu was offended that the Gibson stopped him from taking what was rightfully his. Reparations from The Man.

    No, this didn’t happen because of the dindu’s. Dindus do what dindus always do since time immemorial. That hasn’t changed.

    This happened because the reaction of the college (which is supposed to be run by adults) was not to expel the dindus for honor code violation as they should have, but rather condemn the business owner for being “racist” and then help to organize a boycott of the business using the students as their goons. They also demanded that in the future the business owner not call the police on shoplifters (especially when they were black Oberlin students). Instead of upholding the standards of true justice and morality (“thou shalt not steal”) they opted for “racial” justice – they lost sight of their mission.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @Realist
    Correct this happened because of dumbass self hating Whites.
    , @Clyde
    Prime dindu video and pics here/ Must scroll down to see the wine bottle stealer (on video!) being arrested by bored white police. https://turtleboysports.com/dumbass-oberlin-college-students-cost-the-school-33-million-for-destroying-a-family-owned-business-they-called-racist-after-a-whiny-bitch-got-caught-stealing/

    And he (dindu) went to Phillips Exeter Academy in New Hamphire
    , @HammerJack
    If the college had dared to expel or otherwise discipline the thieves they would have been shut down by "righteous" protests and everyone knows this.

    Look at what happened at Mizzou, where the alleged offenses never even happened in the first place.

    Besides, "racial justice" is and has always been one of Oberlin's primary raisons d'etre hence the makeup of its senior administration.
  148. @AnotherDad

    I’m beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a “How Dare They Think We’re Wrong,” email to alumni while the trial was still going.
     
    One of the problems of the Stalinist PC orthodoxy is that it inhibits normal people from normal questioning.

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say "Hey maybe we shouldn't let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones ... lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there's some male rationality and sanity around the table."

    Because “diversity” doesn’t really mean diversity. You might say , well, “diverse” voices such as blacks and lesbians have been excluded in the past, so let’s add some to the mix – it will be like putting some chili spice in this boring bland white man stew. It can’t cause too much damage because white guys will still be in charge and we’ll put the diverse in some “safe” place like HR. But in their mind, an institution is not really “diverse” until ALL the hateful white men are gone. HR controls hiring so over time the institution becomes woke from top to bottom.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    Business owners tend to be more insulated from PC than corporate types because they cannot be fired. So the type of pressure that might have worked on an employee at Oberlin, in the Silicon Valley, or the shit works did not work so well with the Gibsons'. They had to withstand the protests and attacks which must be particularly hard in a restaurant or food handler where their customers would be sensitive to food tampering or the regulators hassling them. But that having been said, if this culture is to survive, it might just be self employed people like this who have their backs to the wall and nothing to lose.
  149. @Svigor
    Mine better:

    https://pics.me.me/perfect-women-dont-exi-starecat-com-36639661.png

    Lol you’ll find your Klan-lolli one of these days, never give up.

  150. @Jack D
    It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys, but that's ridiculous. A business like that might sell for 5x annual PROFITS, not sales. No one will pay you $1 for $1 of lost sales 30 years from now. Of that $1, maybe a few pennies drops to the bottom line and then you have to discount it for present value. If the shoe was on the other foot, everyone here would be decrying the ridiculousness of the award. This was a cute little business but no one would have given them $1M for it let alone $11.

    Presumably, though, as a family business, the owners have been taking down nice salaries for many decades and reasonably expected to do so into the indefinite future. Maybe it was worth a couple hundred thousand a year to them all in salary and benefits?

    Some consideration has to be given to that.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The salary doesn't "count" for it's full value because you have to work for it. Hypothetically they could go work somewhere else and make some sort of salary, so you only count the difference between what they were paying themselves and what they could make elsewhere.
  151. @Daniel H
    Oberlin’s lawyers could have saved their client a shitload of money if they had been more charitable in their estimates.

    And they really could have saved their client a lot of money if they had instruct their client to 1) admit that the entire thing was a con. 2) fired the administrator responsible 2) suspended/expelled the miscreant students 3) publicly apologized, 4) and offered to pay legal costs and throw in a few thousand for all the plaintiff's trouble. This is the way things are handled between civilized, trusting parties.

    This was not driven by their lawyers. I’ll bet the lawyers counseled them to settle in some fashion, if not the total abdication that you propose. If on day one, they had called up the other side and said, “here’s half a million and we sign a confidential settlement agreement tomorrow before we’ve all spent a lot on legal fees,” the other side would have taken it.

    But the Oberlin administration wouldn’t hear of it – they had RACIAL JUSTICE on their side and were full of righteous anger. No way were they going to give any money to those racist white crackers. It’s not the administrator’s own money anyway, so it’s no problem to piss the endowment away rather than causing the admins to lose face.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @JudgeSmails

    It’s not the administrator’s own money anyway, so it’s no problem to piss the endowment away
     
    Ahhh, perhaps the most decisive crux of the matter.

    Combine this with all of the intersectionality the administrators have - making them ten feet tall and bulletproof - and *this* is what ya get.
    , @Olorin
    I made this point, and your one above, to the bbq posse just the other night.

    Remember that the three thieves did this hit on the bakery the day after the presidential election of 2016.

    There was a lot of acting up in and around lefty college campuses that day. Down at The Evergreen State College, e.g., a noted faculty genius (since resigned) participating in a freak-out in the campus main quad opined on Facebook that white people owed her reparations in the form of burning down police stations or giving her money.

    There was scuttlebutt of retributional thievery/property destruction, but the locals had the good sense to keep its management local.

    http://i.imgur.com/FFXXaBo.png

  152. @Jack D
    No, this didn't happen because of the dindu's. Dindus do what dindus always do since time immemorial. That hasn't changed.

    This happened because the reaction of the college (which is supposed to be run by adults) was not to expel the dindus for honor code violation as they should have, but rather condemn the business owner for being "racist" and then help to organize a boycott of the business using the students as their goons. They also demanded that in the future the business owner not call the police on shoplifters (especially when they were black Oberlin students). Instead of upholding the standards of true justice and morality ("thou shalt not steal") they opted for "racial" justice - they lost sight of their mission.

    Correct this happened because of dumbass self hating Whites.

    • Replies: @Moses

    Correct this happened because of dumbass self hating Whites.
     
    It's weird how the "dumbass self-hating Whites" never acknowledge their privilege and resign their prestigious sinecures to make room for a more deserving less privileged non-White.

    Instead they browbeat BadWhites to "step aside" whist feeling good and virtue-signaling and keeping their sinecures.

    Strange.
  153. @candid_observer
    Presumably, though, as a family business, the owners have been taking down nice salaries for many decades and reasonably expected to do so into the indefinite future. Maybe it was worth a couple hundred thousand a year to them all in salary and benefits?

    Some consideration has to be given to that.

    The salary doesn’t “count” for it’s full value because you have to work for it. Hypothetically they could go work somewhere else and make some sort of salary, so you only count the difference between what they were paying themselves and what they could make elsewhere.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    I have no idea how they actually argued the case. But they could certainly claim that their personal reputations were so thoroughly destroyed that they couldn't command anything like the same salary in the same industry. They would be persona non grata in pretty much any setting, frankly, and that claim is no big stretch.

    They will have gone from a highly reputable family which made a good living for generations to economic pariahs. That's gotta count for a lot, I'd think, however it may be calculated.
  154. @The Alarmist

    "... oberlin’s reply that oh my gosh, we’re just a small liberal arts college and how in the world could we afford to pay 44 million, was extra funny."
     
    Did anyone tell them they could take out loans to cover that? You know, non-recourse loans, not the non-dischargeable recourse types their slaves have to take out for the privilege of indoctrination.

    Oh man, that’s a nugget and a half!

  155. @Autochthon
    Any outfit hiring a Negress as general counsel is asking for a shitstorm of troubles; every lawyer worth his salt knows they belong working as HR ladies, business-development, recruiting, some bullshit office of diversity...but as the g-d-damned general counsel?!

    You are being awfully generous in your occupational pigeonholing for negresses that should be ironing my starched long sleeved button down collar 100% cotton Oxford shirts.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Mismatch is bad but it isn't that bad. Under a color blind system, talented tenth blacks like this lady would not be GCs of large organizations but the woman did pass the bar exam so she could have a job at some state agency doing worker's comp or contract review for the highway dept. or something relatively harmless that would be appropriate for her ability level and where she couldn't cause a lot of damage by her lack of common sense and good judgment.
  156. @the one they call Desanex
    Sung to the tune of “Sister Christian” (Night Ranger):

    Mister Gibson now the time has come,
    Oberlin College is the one that has to pay,
    Okay.
    Where you goin’, what you gonna do?
    You know those boys don’t wanna steal no more from you.
    It’s true.

    Oberlin
    What’s your price to pay?
    44 million, mkay?
    For a bottle of Cabernet.

    Line 4 should’ve been “Where you goin’, what you lookin’ for?”.
    —Persnickety Stan

  157. @Forbes
    I see three (3) people with Wall St/mutual fund/hedge fund employment--out of 30 trustees.

    Your observation appears to be so wide of the mark as to be misleading.

    "Casino bankers"--however unlikable--are unlikely to condone, much less approve, the conduct for which the college has been found liable. Certainly, they are equally responsible for a laxity of oversight as the other 27 trustees.

    Perhaps I'm missing something.

    https://www.oberlin.edu/general-counsel-and-secretary/trustees

    I see three (3) people with Wall St/mutual fund/hedge fund employment–out of 30 trustees.

    Fair complaint, but you missed a set of others in the portfolio management business. In sum

    1. T. Chris Canavan

    2. Richard T. Brandt

    3. Amy Chen

    4. Motoko Dean (retired)

    5. Sean P. Gavin

    6. Eric R. Katzman

    and, adjacent

    7. David Krischer (securities lawyer, retired)

    That’s seven out of 30 people. The financial sector in general accounts for just shy of 8% of value-added in this country. As far as I can tell, the number of commercial bankers and insurance executives on that board sums to zero. Sectors represented on the board include media and entertainment (x 3), IT (1), biotech (1), general manufacturing (1), and retail trade (1).

  158. @Alden
    $70,000 is a decent muddle class family wage. Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    No. They’re a ‘liberal arts college’ in the strict sense: 95% of the teaching manpower is devoted to academics and the arts. Students wanting this experience (and prospective faculty seeking it) are their clientele. Such schools may make an odd concession here and there (Skidmore has a business faculty), but not many. The place I know best has all kinds of cross-listed courses under the victimology headings, but almost none of their students major in those subjects.

  159. @Anon
    According to the article, "Oberlin attorney Matthew Nakon clarified Mr. Rarric’s numeric claims, saying the college has been operating in an unsustainable deficit situation year after year — a situation caused largely by substantial declines in enrollment. "

    "He stated that annual student charges for tuition and room and board are roughly $70,000."

    Holy, Moses, that's insane. No wonder their enrollment is dropping. Middle-class wage earners can't afford that, and that's bad even for upper-middle earners. But there's something strange here. Yes, enrollment can decline, but we're living in an era in which people are desperate and even trying to bribe their way into college. There are a ton of libtards from the Northeast who would love to go to a school like Oberlin. It still has a very high academic reputation.

    However, the school also has 200 million's worth of debt. How? Another article states:

    "S&P Global Ratings changed the outlook on its AA rating for the private liberal arts college in Ohio Thursday and said that any further weakening in the school’s finances and failure to return to historical operating performance could pressure the rating on $200 million of debt."

    How'd Oberlin get 200 million of debt with an endowment of 887 million and 1.4 billion in assets?

    I wonder if the 'unsustainable' deficit is due to malfeasance -or even theft-by their black female prexy, Carmen Twillie Ambar. Did she deliberately run up the college's debt? Someone ought to look into Oberlin's finances to find out what's up. Regrettably, it looks like Ambar is going to do to Oberlin what Jane Sanders did to Burlington College.

    My guess would be they went on a building spree, as many colleges have done, and used the rock-bottom interest rates available through the Obama years. And apparently most of the endowment is directed by donors to be spent on specific purposes, so they are fairly tied. There is a chance it could go under or at least radically transformed (heh).

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    It would be interesting to hear what the SPLC has to say about this seeing that these types of lawsuits are right down their alley. They should be celebrating. This also might be a very good omen for the Covington Kids suit. The wake up call to liberals is that legal actions used to be exclusively their domain but it looks like that has changed.
  160. @Jack D
    The salary doesn't "count" for it's full value because you have to work for it. Hypothetically they could go work somewhere else and make some sort of salary, so you only count the difference between what they were paying themselves and what they could make elsewhere.

    I have no idea how they actually argued the case. But they could certainly claim that their personal reputations were so thoroughly destroyed that they couldn’t command anything like the same salary in the same industry. They would be persona non grata in pretty much any setting, frankly, and that claim is no big stretch.

    They will have gone from a highly reputable family which made a good living for generations to economic pariahs. That’s gotta count for a lot, I’d think, however it may be calculated.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It's awful, really.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    For Jack D, rootedness and reputation don’t register.
  161. I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    It does appear to be a great deal of town vs. gown hatred here. It appears that townspeople are sick and tired of being pushed around by the college and are striking a blow against the hated enemy. If so, it is entirely possible the judgment was spite, rather than justice.

    In the meantime, many other local businesses depend on the college and its students for some of their business. As arrogant as the college has gotten, it would hurt the community if the college collapsed. The main point of the suit was how the college could poison the symbiotic relationship between town and gown. They hate each other but depend on each other.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    This was largely for the jury to decide. The Dean was seen handing out fliers condemning the business and admitted in her texts that she had the ability to turn the student mob loose on whatever target she chose.
    , @Unladen Swallow
    Libel and slander are not protected by the First Amendment, anymore than threatening public safety is, I know what article you got that information from because I read it myself. The fact that a once conservative publication published that is just further evidence that the left is taking over everywhere.

    Being an alum, I don't think that guy was being completely honest how strong the case against the college was, if the dean texted she was going to unleash the mob on the bakery, that I think would be sufficient to prove damages. Not to mention the fact that the university terminated their contract, even though they knew the students stole and then beat the owner's son when he tried to stop it.
    , @Desiderius
    You (badly) need better sources.
    , @res
    You make some decent comments here, but when you kick into your citation less FUD mode (as in that comment's first paragraph) you are worthless.
    , @Art Deco
    I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    The dean of students stood outside the bakery handing out libelous fliers. The college retaliated as well by cancelling concessions with the bakery. And the internal communications between the dean of students and other parties made plain she and her staff manipulate these NPCs.

    Any other school would have settled out of court with the Gibsons. Oberlin was indifferent to their economic losses and insisted that the Gibson's not call the police when students were caught shoplifting, because, you know, the Marquis de Saint-Evremonde shall take from the peasants whenever he pleases. And if you fancy Mr. Gibson is lying about that, in one of their own motions they contend the bakery was at fault for maintaining an 'archaic' 'catch and detain' policy.

  162. @jon
    Do you have a link for that? I was just reading on another site that the bakery didn't have any CCTV.

    It really makes no difference. He saw the dindu put the wine in his backpack and presumably when the cops arrested the dindu (he didn’t see them coming because he and his girlfriends had the shopkeeper on the ground and were busy beating the white out of him) it was still there. The dindu plead guilty and admitted that he had stolen the wine and that there was no racial element to the incident.

  163. @Paleo Liberal
    I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    It does appear to be a great deal of town vs. gown hatred here. It appears that townspeople are sick and tired of being pushed around by the college and are striking a blow against the hated enemy. If so, it is entirely possible the judgment was spite, rather than justice.

    In the meantime, many other local businesses depend on the college and its students for some of their business. As arrogant as the college has gotten, it would hurt the community if the college collapsed. The main point of the suit was how the college could poison the symbiotic relationship between town and gown. They hate each other but depend on each other.

    This was largely for the jury to decide. The Dean was seen handing out fliers condemning the business and admitted in her texts that she had the ability to turn the student mob loose on whatever target she chose.

  164. @Alec Leamas

    This must be a darn big “bakery” if there were–or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for–$11 million in actual damages.
     
    You'd have to find the multiple to value the business but I suspect that the closest Pizza Parlor or Bakery to a non-urban College campus does a brisk business, especially one formerly regarded as an institution and tradition by the students. This place was there from 1885 and there's a load of good will that was built up over the years and then set on fire by a gaggle of affirmative action cases and enabling goodwhites who refused to accept the world as it is.

    One thing that probably pissed off jury was Oberlin’s contention that the bakery was only worth $35,000.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    That's quite possibly true but if so, it's because the jury misunderstood the role of the respective counsel. It was the job of the bakery's lawyers to come up with the HIGHEST amount of damages that they could credibly advocate for ($11 million) and it was the job of Oberlin's lawyers to come up with the LOWEST amount of damages that they could credibly advocate for ($35,000). As zealous advocates for their client in a courtroom, neither side has any obligation to take a "fair" or moderate position or advocate for a "reasonable" value - that's the job of the judge and the jury. When the lawyers for BIG CORPORATION X says that having to spend the rest of your life is a wheelchair isn't really so bad so the plaintiff really shouldn't get much, it's not because they are mean horrible evil people - they are just trying to doing their job (although part of their job is not pissing off the jury - they sometimes lose sight of that). We have an adversary system where each side is supposed to give it their best shot, so giving it your best shot doesn't make you (or your client) evil.

    TBH, both numbers are equally ridiculous but because the jury felt more sympathy with the owners of the bakery, they went with their number. Litigation is a sort of crapshoot, which is why Oberlin should have settled this long ago instead of playing lotto with their endowment.

  165. @Jack D
    I don't think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin. There are no adults left in the room, just tattooed fat Lefist ladies like Dean Raimondo and other blacks, gays, Communists, hippies, etc. Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.

    The good news is that I think that this judgment is (hopefully) what kicks them into high gear on their death spiral. Their enrollment has been declining and the bad publicity from this suit will affect the applications from future snowflakes and their parents. There is a limited number of people whose parents are willing to spend $300,000 on a worthless degree.

    Enrollment at the University of Missouri is down 20+ percent since their bit of wokeness several years ago.

    “From 2015 to 2016, enrollment dropped 22.7 percent and another 14.6 percent from 2016 to 2017.”

    https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/updated-spike-in-freshman-enrollment-doesn-t-keep-mu-total/article_4bd2ead2-bdc7-11e8-ae4c-bf4e9b298ca1.html

  166. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    You are being awfully generous in your occupational pigeonholing for negresses that should be ironing my starched long sleeved button down collar 100% cotton Oxford shirts.

    Mismatch is bad but it isn’t that bad. Under a color blind system, talented tenth blacks like this lady would not be GCs of large organizations but the woman did pass the bar exam so she could have a job at some state agency doing worker’s comp or contract review for the highway dept. or something relatively harmless that would be appropriate for her ability level and where she couldn’t cause a lot of damage by her lack of common sense and good judgment.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Well if you're a little guy just trying to untangle some government clusterfuck or get the services that an agency (or a corporate entity for that matter) is ostensibly tasked with providing and are on the receiving end of these AA Esq. hires manning/womaning/theying the desks and conducting "relatively harmless" public business, I can assure you that "relatively harmless" takes on a new "relatively larger" dimension. It's all relative, don't you know?
  167. @Jim Don Bob
    One thing that probably pissed off jury was Oberlin's contention that the bakery was only worth $35,000.

    That’s quite possibly true but if so, it’s because the jury misunderstood the role of the respective counsel. It was the job of the bakery’s lawyers to come up with the HIGHEST amount of damages that they could credibly advocate for ($11 million) and it was the job of Oberlin’s lawyers to come up with the LOWEST amount of damages that they could credibly advocate for ($35,000). As zealous advocates for their client in a courtroom, neither side has any obligation to take a “fair” or moderate position or advocate for a “reasonable” value – that’s the job of the judge and the jury. When the lawyers for BIG CORPORATION X says that having to spend the rest of your life is a wheelchair isn’t really so bad so the plaintiff really shouldn’t get much, it’s not because they are mean horrible evil people – they are just trying to doing their job (although part of their job is not pissing off the jury – they sometimes lose sight of that). We have an adversary system where each side is supposed to give it their best shot, so giving it your best shot doesn’t make you (or your client) evil.

    TBH, both numbers are equally ridiculous but because the jury felt more sympathy with the owners of the bakery, they went with their number. Litigation is a sort of crapshoot, which is why Oberlin should have settled this long ago instead of playing lotto with their endowment.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    "Credibly" is doing a lot of work in your analysis, Jack. If you tell a jury not to believe their lying eyes they're likely not to believe the lawyer saying so.

    I don't know how $11,000,000.00 in compensatories was calculated but it doesn't sound too unreasonable for a multi-generational college town institution which has cornered the market on items that college kids buy in abundance (carbs, ice cream, booze). Find the multiplier and divide it into the $11,000,000.00 and it might seem more reasonable.
  168. @Jack D
    From the Legal Insurrection blog:


    For those who have speculated that these jury verdicts will be pared down substantially or denied by an appeals court, that also is not good speculation. Yes, there will likely be appeals, but in order to win an appeal in a civil tort case, Oberlin College would have to prove that Judge Miraldi and the jury made egregious decision that went against Ohio law. For those of us in the courtroom, and for legal observers who know more about this than me, appeals reversals are unlikely. And Miraldi was very careful in setting the bar pretty high on evidentiary rulings.
     
    Appeals courts are generally required to accept the jury's take on the facts as a given and can reverse only if there was an error in the way that the law was applied (e.g. the judge gave them erroneous instructions or allowed the jury to hear inflammatory evidence that should have been excluded, etc.). This is a high burden. In a politically charged case like this, it might happen if the court was ultra-liberal and wanted to help Oberlin out, but Ohio is not California.

    I know you’re not a trial lawyer, but the point here is that Ohio law includes the concept of “libel per se”, in cases of which the Plaintiff need not prove damages. They are presumed. Is there a legal cap on the amount of damages that can be “presumed” without proof in Ohio? That’s a crucial question, at least for the defamation causes of action. However, Ohio seems to allow soft damages (mental distress etc.) for most or all of the torts in question, which decreases the importance of the dubious business valuation evidence.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    I'd have to read the whole record but it sound like "actual" damages were at least a part of what they were arguing about. IIRC, the $11M was broken up among the corporation and the father and son and part (I guess the corporation's part) was for "actual" damages and the father and the son got "assumed" damages.

    In case of libel per se, you get "assumed" damages even if you can't show any actual loss. Maybe you are a housewife with no income but your enemy prints a column in which she accuses you of being a whore. The court can assume that the plaintiff has suffered harm to her reputation, or experienced shame, mortification, or hurt feelings, etc. and put a value on those. There's no set yardstick or methodology for this the way there is for valuing a business, which is why the jury was free to go sky high on on those numbers.

  169. @candid_observer
    I have no idea how they actually argued the case. But they could certainly claim that their personal reputations were so thoroughly destroyed that they couldn't command anything like the same salary in the same industry. They would be persona non grata in pretty much any setting, frankly, and that claim is no big stretch.

    They will have gone from a highly reputable family which made a good living for generations to economic pariahs. That's gotta count for a lot, I'd think, however it may be calculated.

    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It’s awful, really.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Jack, you still don’t get that for many people, it’s not all about the shekels (#220).

    Strange as it may seem to you, some people are content running a “cute little business” generation after generation. Many customers also like supporting businesses like that. I guess it’s just a tough concept for a rootless mentality to understand.

    Maybe after this windfall things will change for the Gibsons, but you’re missing the significance of the case: The jury rightfully gave Oberlin and future Oberlins a much needed heads up—“Fuck around, find out.”
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It’s awful, really.
     
    One of the Gibsons is a frail, elderly man in a neckbrace (hmmm).

    Do you really think the end of his life has been a bowl of cherries even with this vindication?

    Sometimes people wind down a multi-generational family business reluctantly with a wistful view of the past - times change and so forth, and sometimes the business can't meet its new owners' needs. But that's a thing entirely different from getting chased out of business on the basis of fetid lies by an organized mob.
    , @Alden
    They’ll probably get about 20 million in a structured settlement spread out as long as possible.
    , @Marquandian Hero
    Frankly, for having to tolerate unpunished dindu attacks, seems reasonable. For once, they found deep pockets, which, obviously, most victims don't.
  170. @ben tillman
    I know you're not a trial lawyer, but the point here is that Ohio law includes the concept of "libel per se", in cases of which the Plaintiff need not prove damages. They are presumed. Is there a legal cap on the amount of damages that can be "presumed" without proof in Ohio? That's a crucial question, at least for the defamation causes of action. However, Ohio seems to allow soft damages (mental distress etc.) for most or all of the torts in question, which decreases the importance of the dubious business valuation evidence.

    I’d have to read the whole record but it sound like “actual” damages were at least a part of what they were arguing about. IIRC, the $11M was broken up among the corporation and the father and son and part (I guess the corporation’s part) was for “actual” damages and the father and the son got “assumed” damages.

    In case of libel per se, you get “assumed” damages even if you can’t show any actual loss. Maybe you are a housewife with no income but your enemy prints a column in which she accuses you of being a whore. The court can assume that the plaintiff has suffered harm to her reputation, or experienced shame, mortification, or hurt feelings, etc. and put a value on those. There’s no set yardstick or methodology for this the way there is for valuing a business, which is why the jury was free to go sky high on on those numbers.

    • Replies: @Alden
    This case is a good example of why punitive damages are necessary and good. Oberlin will probably not attack local Whites for a while.

    The Washington Post, NYSlimes t, MSNBC CNN and the rest of the anti White media will probably not attack and defame another 16 year old White boy who says not a word in the DC mall while a deranged homeless American Indian shrieks hatred at him.

    Racist smirking, something only White hating liberals could make up.

    There’s also racist hair. Racist hair is horribly offensive practically a KKK robe and hood. Racist hair is White women’s hair which causes resentment envy offense and pain to black women. Don’t laugh guys. It’s a big problem in HR training and seminars

    Oh for the good old days when all HR did was hire fire approve vacation schedules and write paychecks
  171. @Anonymous
    (1) Who is her boss? Who does she answer to? (2) Why didn't they tell her to shut up?

    https://www.oberlin.edu/president

    Two sistahs and a crazed lefty tattooed cat lady cost them (hopefully) $44mm. A pyramid of arrogance and stupidity.

  172. @95Theses
    Social Justice, meet Poetic Justice.

    This made my day!

    Social Justice, meet Poetic Justice.

    Good one!

  173. @Paleo Liberal
    I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    It does appear to be a great deal of town vs. gown hatred here. It appears that townspeople are sick and tired of being pushed around by the college and are striking a blow against the hated enemy. If so, it is entirely possible the judgment was spite, rather than justice.

    In the meantime, many other local businesses depend on the college and its students for some of their business. As arrogant as the college has gotten, it would hurt the community if the college collapsed. The main point of the suit was how the college could poison the symbiotic relationship between town and gown. They hate each other but depend on each other.

    Libel and slander are not protected by the First Amendment, anymore than threatening public safety is, I know what article you got that information from because I read it myself. The fact that a once conservative publication published that is just further evidence that the left is taking over everywhere.

    Being an alum, I don’t think that guy was being completely honest how strong the case against the college was, if the dean texted she was going to unleash the mob on the bakery, that I think would be sufficient to prove damages. Not to mention the fact that the university terminated their contract, even though they knew the students stole and then beat the owner’s son when he tried to stop it.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Not to mention the fact that the university terminated their contract
     
    Tacking on a conservatory doesn't make a college a university.
    , @Prof. Woland

    if the dean texted she was going to unleash the mob on the bakery, that I think would be sufficient to prove damages.
     
    I am still waiting on the lawsuit by the aggrieved family that sues George Soros and his cohorts for the death of their child by some illegal alien that was smuggled here by an NGO he has funded. If it can be proved that their illegal and negligent actions contributed to a persons death, I see no reason why they should have two thin dimes left to rub together.
  174. @Jack D
    It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys, but that's ridiculous. A business like that might sell for 5x annual PROFITS, not sales. No one will pay you $1 for $1 of lost sales 30 years from now. Of that $1, maybe a few pennies drops to the bottom line and then you have to discount it for present value. If the shoe was on the other foot, everyone here would be decrying the ridiculousness of the award. This was a cute little business but no one would have given them $1M for it let alone $11.

    It’s not all economic damages.

  175. @candid_observer
    I have no idea how they actually argued the case. But they could certainly claim that their personal reputations were so thoroughly destroyed that they couldn't command anything like the same salary in the same industry. They would be persona non grata in pretty much any setting, frankly, and that claim is no big stretch.

    They will have gone from a highly reputable family which made a good living for generations to economic pariahs. That's gotta count for a lot, I'd think, however it may be calculated.

    For Jack D, rootedness and reputation don’t register.

  176. @95Theses
    Even with Oberlin's huffin' and puffin'.

    an da Gibsons got the drumstick, gravy and stuffin’.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    score!
  177. @Jack D
    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It's awful, really.

    Jack, you still don’t get that for many people, it’s not all about the shekels (#220).

    Strange as it may seem to you, some people are content running a “cute little business” generation after generation. Many customers also like supporting businesses like that. I guess it’s just a tough concept for a rootless mentality to understand.

    Maybe after this windfall things will change for the Gibsons, but you’re missing the significance of the case: The jury rightfully gave Oberlin and future Oberlins a much needed heads up—“Fuck around, find out.”

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's not supposed to be the jury's job to "send a message" - in a proper justice system they are supposed to compensate people for the damages they have suffered. In rare cases punitive damages can be assessed as well. Using the civil justice system as a hammer to "send messages" to people you don't like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same. You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.
  178. @Alden
    $70,000 is a decent muddle class family wage. Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?

    Famed alums include Lena Dunham, Eric Bogosian and Alison Bechdel of Dykes to Watch Out For fame. Also Michelle Malkin.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Known Fact:

    Michelle became Mrs Malkin at Oberlin. I take it that the Malkins are politically congruent. So who can now say that nothing good has ever came out of Oberlin!
    , @Alden
    It’s hard to believe Michelle Malkin went to Oberlin. Did they give her a full scholarship because she’s Philippine? Maybe that’s why she turned conservative. How could she stand it?

    Oberlin churning out lunatic liberals since 1830
    Founded by lunatic liberals
  179. @Anon
    Oberlin, or some individual administrator at Oberlin, sent out an email blast right after the $11 million verdict that, shall we say, showed no remorse. At that time I read a quote from a lawyer to the effect that the email might have cost them $33 million. It couldn't be just the email, since Oberlin was pretty assholey the whole time, but I reckon that the email cost them, oh, an extra $11 million.

    Ah, I found it:

    Oberlin College mass email criticizing Jurors could influence Punitive Damages Hearing in Gibson’s Bakery case

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    As mentioned numerous times, “from the start of this case I have questioned the aggressive and demeaning attacks on the Gibsons as a defense strategy,” and “I’m still shaking my head at the tone-deafness of the defense in belittling this family business.”

    The next stage is a punitive damages hearing, since the jury found the defendants acted with intent and malice. The point is to keep some of the more inflammatory evidence that does not go to liability or compensatory damages away from the jury during the initial deliberations. That additional evidence relevant to punitive damages could include information as to the wealth of the defendants, but also additional information supporting the need for punishment.

    In this context, there is nothing more baffling than a statement sent to alumni after the verdict by Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin College’s Vice President and General Counsel.

    We would have to know more about Varner’s involvement in overseeing the litigation. But if she was the key point person at the college as to the litigation strategy, she may not be the right person to handle corporate communications.

    Someone with such deep experience as Varner should have known better than to send out such a statement in the middle of trial, particularly on the cusp of a punitive damages hearing. I understand the college felt the need to say something, but first do no harm. Simply send out a mass email, since alumni were going to hear about the verdict through the news, indicating that the college cannot comment since the trial is ongoing.
     

    “Someone with such deep experience as Varner should have known better..”

    The author simply doesn’t know or understand negroes. The phrase “deep experience” is completely out of place here. Although Blacks are capable of creating a simulacrum of white behavior, they don’t understand why whites behave as they do.

  180. Does anyone know if a big civil case like this involving a university draws at least the casual attention of, say, the Department of Justice, or the Department of Education?

    My thinking, I guess, is that a big-time public misstep by Oberlin, such as in this case, may signal incompetence, bad judgment, or outright corruption in other areas of the institution.

  181. Anonymous[330] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    There are a couple of threads on that in last year's archive.

    The ANC had gotten so used to pushing ordinary whites around that it decided to start pushing bankers and mine-owners around as well. It received a sharp reminder that some 'whites' push back - and hard. The SA prime minister was ousted from power, a major humiliation. The ANC took revenge by stepping up its harassment of white farmers, which prompted international protests, notably including Trump. Since then things have gone quiet.

    ‘some ‘whites’ push back ‘

    What actually happened was some south asian upstarts tried to use the ANC to steal a major airport terminal from one of SA’s oldest and most powerful Jewish families. Blacks are easily incited, in this case by Indians, but soon remembered who really owns SA. It was the end of the Guptas and the end of Zuma.

  182. If anyone has any sympathy for Oberlin, I urge you to read the lawsuit and look at the flyer which was distributed. You can find the flier on page 10 of the complaint. Just read the flier.

    https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://oberlinreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Common-Pleas_Gibson-Bros.-v-Oberlin-College-Meredith-Raimondo.pdf&hl=en

    According to the complaint the flier was printed on Oberlin copying machines and was distributed by Dean Raimondo. If the jury found that to be true, I can see why they awarded the damages.

    • Replies: @danand
    Ibound1,

    Thanks for posting the link to the complaint. Looks like “parking space” was the real beef/issue! That bakery possesses something way more valuable than doughnuts; a parking lot. In the complaint it states that parking disputes/complaints/infractions related to the lot own by the bakery is where the ill will towards the bakery really originated.
  183. Oberlin has a trump card. No pun intended.

    Unleash the students on the entire town. Call in BLM and have anti fa and BLM beat the White out of the town and business owners and employees and citizens.

    It’s not as if the police can do anything if there is huge mob of violent Black Lives Matter people pulling folks from cars and giving them the Reginald Denny beat down.

    I figure that’s the response come Fall. Unleash the students, anti fa and BLM until the town surrenders or is burnt down.

    Laws don’t apply to the SJW.

    • Replies: @Marquandian Hero
    It would be great if they did that. Campaign commercial for Trump 2020.
    , @AP
    One problem: Ohioans often carry guns.
  184. @Unladen Swallow
    Libel and slander are not protected by the First Amendment, anymore than threatening public safety is, I know what article you got that information from because I read it myself. The fact that a once conservative publication published that is just further evidence that the left is taking over everywhere.

    Being an alum, I don't think that guy was being completely honest how strong the case against the college was, if the dean texted she was going to unleash the mob on the bakery, that I think would be sufficient to prove damages. Not to mention the fact that the university terminated their contract, even though they knew the students stole and then beat the owner's son when he tried to stop it.

    Not to mention the fact that the university terminated their contract

    Tacking on a conservatory doesn’t make a college a university.

  185. @Jack D
    That's quite possibly true but if so, it's because the jury misunderstood the role of the respective counsel. It was the job of the bakery's lawyers to come up with the HIGHEST amount of damages that they could credibly advocate for ($11 million) and it was the job of Oberlin's lawyers to come up with the LOWEST amount of damages that they could credibly advocate for ($35,000). As zealous advocates for their client in a courtroom, neither side has any obligation to take a "fair" or moderate position or advocate for a "reasonable" value - that's the job of the judge and the jury. When the lawyers for BIG CORPORATION X says that having to spend the rest of your life is a wheelchair isn't really so bad so the plaintiff really shouldn't get much, it's not because they are mean horrible evil people - they are just trying to doing their job (although part of their job is not pissing off the jury - they sometimes lose sight of that). We have an adversary system where each side is supposed to give it their best shot, so giving it your best shot doesn't make you (or your client) evil.

    TBH, both numbers are equally ridiculous but because the jury felt more sympathy with the owners of the bakery, they went with their number. Litigation is a sort of crapshoot, which is why Oberlin should have settled this long ago instead of playing lotto with their endowment.

    “Credibly” is doing a lot of work in your analysis, Jack. If you tell a jury not to believe their lying eyes they’re likely not to believe the lawyer saying so.

    I don’t know how $11,000,000.00 in compensatories was calculated but it doesn’t sound too unreasonable for a multi-generational college town institution which has cornered the market on items that college kids buy in abundance (carbs, ice cream, booze). Find the multiplier and divide it into the $11,000,000.00 and it might seem more reasonable.

  186. @Jack D
    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It's awful, really.

    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It’s awful, really.

    One of the Gibsons is a frail, elderly man in a neckbrace (hmmm).

    Do you really think the end of his life has been a bowl of cherries even with this vindication?

    Sometimes people wind down a multi-generational family business reluctantly with a wistful view of the past – times change and so forth, and sometimes the business can’t meet its new owners’ needs. But that’s a thing entirely different from getting chased out of business on the basis of fetid lies by an organized mob.

  187. @Ibound1
    Now imagine the President, the GC and the Dean of Students running your military, your electric company, your water company, your medical schools, your engineering schools, your monetary and trade policy. Running Oberlin is meaningless. They intend to run the country.

    Running Oberlin is meaningless. They intend to run the country.

    Not “run.”

    “Ruin.”

  188. @Realist

    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies
     
    Your reply is disingenuous. They also offer a number of STEM majors. Most colleges offer the courses you listed, including MIT, Stanford and Princeton.

    “Studies” are the opposite of disciplines.

    Do you judge a school by its weak links, or by its best offerings?at

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this “studies” fluff, though. Such majors at Oberlin and even at major “research” universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Studies are weeds growing in an abandoned garden that used to cultivate disciplines. It was abandoned by conservatives who decided they were too good to be mere disciples.
    , @Realist

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this “studies” fluff, though
     
    .

    They probably do now.

    Such majors at Oberlin and even at major “research” universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.
     
    Only if your major was in a STEM discipline.
  189. @Paleo Liberal
    I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    It does appear to be a great deal of town vs. gown hatred here. It appears that townspeople are sick and tired of being pushed around by the college and are striking a blow against the hated enemy. If so, it is entirely possible the judgment was spite, rather than justice.

    In the meantime, many other local businesses depend on the college and its students for some of their business. As arrogant as the college has gotten, it would hurt the community if the college collapsed. The main point of the suit was how the college could poison the symbiotic relationship between town and gown. They hate each other but depend on each other.

    You (badly) need better sources.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Desiderius:

    Any search for better sources starts (and essentially ends) with "Legal Insurrection".
  190. @Realist

    Does Oberlin have any useful majors, even a teaching degree?
     
    Yes, they offer a number of STEM majors. You could have looked up their course offerings. Oberlin really screwed up with their defamation of the Gibson bakery, but you are trying to defame Oberlin college with a straw man.

    Yes, they offer a number of STEM majors.

    The widespread prevalence of this sort of thinking (sic), particularly among erstwhile conservatives who should know better, is how Oberlin became the joke it is today.

    When the Left marched through the institutions they were pushing on an open door.

    • Replies: @Realist

    The widespread prevalence of this sort of thinking (sic), particularly among erstwhile conservatives who should know better, is how Oberlin became the joke it is today.
     
    What sort of thinking is that? That Oberlin offers STEM majors?
  191. @Reg Cæsar
    "Studies" are the opposite of disciplines.

    Do you judge a school by its weak links, or by its best offerings?at

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this "studies" fluff, though. Such majors at Oberlin and even at major "research" universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.

    Studies are weeds growing in an abandoned garden that used to cultivate disciplines. It was abandoned by conservatives who decided they were too good to be mere disciples.

  192. @Desiderius
    You (badly) need better sources.

    Desiderius:

    Any search for better sources starts (and essentially ends) with “Legal Insurrection”.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Thanks for the pointer.

    Some of the arguments I have seen say that what was said about the bakery was reprehensible, but opinions, which are protected speech.

    One source I found shows a flier that claims the bakery has a long history of racial discrimination. That is NOT an opinion. That is a statement which is either true or false. If false, it is libelous. Apparently that is what the jury thought.

    A similar situation: once a restaurant reviewer was sued for claiming a restaurant owner didn’t know how to make noodles. Saying the noodles tasted bad would be a protected opinion. Saying the owner didn’t know how to make noodles was a statement either true or false. The owner went to court and made noodles in court. The owner won a libel suit.
  193. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    I see the Evan Gerstmann over at Forbes Magazine has his panties in a wad over this "illegal" jury award. Particularly humorous are his bloviations about egregious suppression of freedom of speech.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2019/06/13/ohio-jury-hits-oberlin-college-with-ferocious-and-illegal-punitive-damages/#764ff7d12b9a

    Gerstmann flat out lies several times in his defense of Oberlin. The college wasn’t held liable for the student’s actions, it was held liable for passing out defamatory fliers at the protest. His claim that the only reason Raimondo was at the protest was to protect the safety of the students is laughable. Why is Steve Forbes allowing this nonsense to run on his website?

    • Replies: @Alden
    Because Steve Forbes is an anti White racist liberal.
  194. @anonymous
    Interestingly, the WaPo article you are referring to which obfuscates about the shoplifting was last week's one reporting on the jury finding for the defendants for the $11 million compensatory damages.

    In today's recent WaPo article about the $33 million punitive damages they are right up front about the shoplifting and assault! Is today's result starting to make WaPo nervous about their own reckoning with a heartland libel jury, in the Covington Catholic lawsuit?

    anon, thank you . I will check that out.

  195. I wonder who on Oberlin’s Board of Trustees thought it was a good idea to hire a woman as president, much less a black woman. Is there a shortage of competent white guys?

  196. If Oberlin is truly committed to combating racism and fighting for social justice, parting with $44 million should come as a minor sacrifice. After all, Emmett Till paid with his life.

    Just write the check and then make Meredith Raimundo President of the College!

  197. @Bill P
    While reading the Legal Insurrection articles I came across a quote from some school administrator to the effect of "Gibson's will be fine [despite the cancellation of orders and protests] because they own so much prime real estate downtown."

    That suggests the school's encouragement of the protests might have been due to something other than ideology. Perhaps they wanted to twist the Gibsons' arm to force them to sell some of that prime real estate to Oberlin at a lower price. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was part of the reason for all this.

    From the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:

    A message sent by associate professor of music theory Jan Miyake said, “So heres one rhing (sic) on my mind about gibsons. They own so much prime property in oberlin that boycotting doesnt hurt them that much. The smear on their brand does, and that’s been taken care of.”

    The transcript of Miyake’s message was included in a recently unsealed court filing made by the attorneys for Gibson’s as part of the lawsuit filed against the college and Meredith Raimondo, vice president and dean of students, for libel, slander, interference with business relationships, interference with contracts, deceptive trade practices, intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligent hiring and trespass.

    The document also included some testimony given by Miyake during a deposition for the case. Miyake was asked what she meant by “the smear on their brand does.”

    “So the — I — it’s –—that hurts to have your brand smeared,” Miyake said. “So boycotting them doesn’t really hurt them, but having your brand hurt.”

    When asked how Gibson’s brand was smeared, Miyake said, “They protested outside the store for three days chanting, ‘Racists.’”

    Miyake was then asked what she’d meant that the smear of the brand had been taken care of.

    “It — it means that there’s no reason to keep doing that,” she said. “It’s done.”

    In her artless way, this professor offered an pretty good exposition of why defamation is a tort, in the course of confirming that she had been boasting of successfully committing it.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    A message sent by associate professor of music theory Jan Miyake said, “So heres one rhing (sic) on my mind about gibsons. They own so much prime property in oberlin that boycotting doesnt hurt them that much. The smear on their brand does, and that’s been taken care of.”
     
    Miyake the moron. The "smear on their brand" hurts Gibson't because it results in boycotting.
  198. @Jack D
    Mismatch is bad but it isn't that bad. Under a color blind system, talented tenth blacks like this lady would not be GCs of large organizations but the woman did pass the bar exam so she could have a job at some state agency doing worker's comp or contract review for the highway dept. or something relatively harmless that would be appropriate for her ability level and where she couldn't cause a lot of damage by her lack of common sense and good judgment.

    Well if you’re a little guy just trying to untangle some government clusterfuck or get the services that an agency (or a corporate entity for that matter) is ostensibly tasked with providing and are on the receiving end of these AA Esq. hires manning/womaning/theying the desks and conducting “relatively harmless” public business, I can assure you that “relatively harmless” takes on a new “relatively larger” dimension. It’s all relative, don’t you know?

  199. @Jack D
    The recent story was an AP story off the wire, not written by a WaPo reporter. AP is not as woke as WaPo.

    Jack D:

    While the AP might not be as woke as the WaPo, it nevertheless is still quite markedly woke!

  200. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Jack, you still don’t get that for many people, it’s not all about the shekels (#220).

    Strange as it may seem to you, some people are content running a “cute little business” generation after generation. Many customers also like supporting businesses like that. I guess it’s just a tough concept for a rootless mentality to understand.

    Maybe after this windfall things will change for the Gibsons, but you’re missing the significance of the case: The jury rightfully gave Oberlin and future Oberlins a much needed heads up—“Fuck around, find out.”

    It’s not supposed to be the jury’s job to “send a message” – in a proper justice system they are supposed to compensate people for the damages they have suffered. In rare cases punitive damages can be assessed as well. Using the civil justice system as a hammer to “send messages” to people you don’t like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same. You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    "If you want to send a message, call Western Union." - Samuel Goldwyn
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    It’s not supposed to be the jury’s job to “send a message”
     
    Wha? Of course it is. One major function of our justice system is punishment and deterrence. Including in civil cases.

    Using the civil justice system as a hammer to “send messages” to people you don’t like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same.
     
    You seem to have confused the perpetrators and instigators with the injured party. If someone punches you unprovoked and you hit that person back, it’s not relevant for a third party to inanely observe that “punching back is not much better than punching first for no reason.”

    Ironically, one of your favorite concepts is “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.” How does that not apply in this case?

    You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.
     
    To the contrary, I want the vibrant and/or the terminal left to show their true selves as much as possible. The OJ murder verdict is a great example.
    , @Jack Hanson
    "Power is scary so we can never use it" is why the mainstream Right in this country is on the ropes.

    Well unless its using power on behalf of a certain (((2%))) its all well and good. But for your average American just trying to get by? That's scary!
  201. @Jack D
    It's not supposed to be the jury's job to "send a message" - in a proper justice system they are supposed to compensate people for the damages they have suffered. In rare cases punitive damages can be assessed as well. Using the civil justice system as a hammer to "send messages" to people you don't like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same. You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.

    “If you want to send a message, call Western Union.” – Samuel Goldwyn

  202. @George
    Free legal advice from a non lawyer:

    Oberlin should claim there needs to be a new trial because Obies were not allowed to serve on the jury. The way the American democracy is organized students typically are not permitted to vote locally which means they can't serve on juries. Townies to a person hate dormies, so the jury was biased. Laud mouth woke types could have kept the jury proceeding going on interminably until the townies gave in. Q.E.D.

    Nope. The best that Oberlin could hope for would be a change of venue to an adjacent non-college town judicial district.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    Based on the articles I have read, it sounds like the trial was held in Elyria, a much larger town in the same county, ten miles from Oberlin. The area itself isn't near as liberal as the Oberlin students and faculty. Trump effectively tied Hillary in Lorain county.
  203. @Reg Cæsar
    "Studies" are the opposite of disciplines.

    Do you judge a school by its weak links, or by its best offerings?at

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this "studies" fluff, though. Such majors at Oberlin and even at major "research" universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this “studies” fluff, though

    .

    They probably do now.

    Such majors at Oberlin and even at major “research” universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.

    Only if your major was in a STEM discipline.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Oberlin has an excellent classical music conservatory. It offers some of the best training in the country for violinists and the like.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    They probably do now.
     
    You assume it still stands.
  204. @Jack D
    I don't think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin. There are no adults left in the room, just tattooed fat Lefist ladies like Dean Raimondo and other blacks, gays, Communists, hippies, etc. Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.

    The good news is that I think that this judgment is (hopefully) what kicks them into high gear on their death spiral. Their enrollment has been declining and the bad publicity from this suit will affect the applications from future snowflakes and their parents. There is a limited number of people whose parents are willing to spend $300,000 on a worthless degree.

    I hadn’t heard or seen mention of Oberlin for decades. Most of the people I know never heard of Oberlin. Even in the1960s it was known as lunatic, lesbian socialist frump. vegetarian weirdo.

    Maybe rural Ohio was a happening place in 1840, but the left’s detestation of small town White America made Oberlin deeply unfashionable. Even Bennington, an all women school somewhere in the frozen forests of New England was more fashionable. Probably should have re located to Chicago, Detroit, Cincinnati St Louis around 1900.

    One enemy down, millions to go.

    • Replies: @Marquandian Hero
    The old semi-parody Official Preppy Handbook from 1980 lists Oberlin somewhere near the top of schools that are "out of the league" and my recollection is describes it as "girls wear scarves over their dirty hair". Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.
  205. @Desiderius

    Yes, they offer a number of STEM majors.
     
    The widespread prevalence of this sort of thinking (sic), particularly among erstwhile conservatives who should know better, is how Oberlin became the joke it is today.

    When the Left marched through the institutions they were pushing on an open door.

    The widespread prevalence of this sort of thinking (sic), particularly among erstwhile conservatives who should know better, is how Oberlin became the joke it is today.

    What sort of thinking is that? That Oberlin offers STEM majors?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That STEM is the only alternative to Studies bullshit, especially for a school like Oberlin, which rightfully enjoys a long-standing and proud tradition of educational excellence in the Liberal Arts.

    It was the abandonment of that tradition (and the faith which gave it life) by those who would today be called conservatives that left the door open for the Left and worse.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.
  206. @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Nope. The best that Oberlin could hope for would be a change of venue to an adjacent non-college town judicial district.

    Based on the articles I have read, it sounds like the trial was held in Elyria, a much larger town in the same county, ten miles from Oberlin. The area itself isn’t near as liberal as the Oberlin students and faculty. Trump effectively tied Hillary in Lorain county.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Elyria is the county seat. The courthouse is always in the county seat. The jury pool includes the whole county, which in this case is very populous with more than 300,000 people.
  207. @Barnard
    Gerstmann flat out lies several times in his defense of Oberlin. The college wasn't held liable for the student's actions, it was held liable for passing out defamatory fliers at the protest. His claim that the only reason Raimondo was at the protest was to protect the safety of the students is laughable. Why is Steve Forbes allowing this nonsense to run on his website?

    Because Steve Forbes is an anti White racist liberal.

  208. @Jack D
    I don't think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin. There are no adults left in the room, just tattooed fat Lefist ladies like Dean Raimondo and other blacks, gays, Communists, hippies, etc. Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.

    The good news is that I think that this judgment is (hopefully) what kicks them into high gear on their death spiral. Their enrollment has been declining and the bad publicity from this suit will affect the applications from future snowflakes and their parents. There is a limited number of people whose parents are willing to spend $300,000 on a worthless degree.

    Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.

    It doesn’t seem to have affected Michelle Malkin’s political leaning.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  209. @Jack D
    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It's awful, really.

    They’ll probably get about 20 million in a structured settlement spread out as long as possible.

  210. @Penskefile

    How’d Oberlin get 200 million of debt with an endowment of 887 million and 1.4 billion in assets

     

    When interest rates are as low as they have been for the past decade, it would be dumb NOT to borrow money to finance projects. You are paying near nothing on the borrowed funds, while earning more on the funds you hold in other investments.

    Others who know more should correct me, but I would expect that endowment funds are housed in trusts or other SPV's that are sheltered from the operations of the school.

    Yes. When lending to an endowed not for profit you need to look at the unencumbered vs encumbered portion of the endowment, but most importantly at cash flow (tuition). I recall reports that the rating agencies are responding to the verdict by looking to revise down Oberlin’s bond ratings, which would increase the cost of their existing variable rate debt and make new debt more expensive.

    Borrowing is especially good for schools as they usually issue bonds through a state development agency, making them tax exempt, further lowering the rate. This even works for private colleges like Oberlin.

  211. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that’s led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    Don’t know about the casino bankers but I do know the tax treatment virtually all colleges in the USA have with the exception of pure for profit colleges the like University of Phoenix. Again the vast majority of colleges operate under IRC Section 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status. This provides them with very generous tax benefits for themselves and their very wealthy benefactors. When the very wealthy donate appreciated assets like stocks, real estate etc, they get out capital gain and estate taxes. When the college itself sells these assets they don’t pay taxes on it either, such a deal. Of course this comes with a bit of quid pro quo. Schools like Oberlin have been educating the kids of wealthy donors for years. Sadly many of these kids graduate with degrees in liberal arts, victim studies, social services, psychology etc., which are not that much in demand beyond Barista and lowly paid government social workers. But Daddy just gave Vassar, Occidental, Bates name your favorite private liberal arts college a big donation. So now his idle and or underemployed daughter/wife gets a job as director of the made up “such and such” department and or position on the board etc.

  212. @Realist

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this “studies” fluff, though
     
    .

    They probably do now.

    Such majors at Oberlin and even at major “research” universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.
     
    Only if your major was in a STEM discipline.

    Oberlin has an excellent classical music conservatory. It offers some of the best training in the country for violinists and the like.

  213. @Known Fact
    Famed alums include Lena Dunham, Eric Bogosian and Alison Bechdel of Dykes to Watch Out For fame. Also Michelle Malkin.

    Known Fact:

    Michelle became Mrs Malkin at Oberlin. I take it that the Malkins are politically congruent. So who can now say that nothing good has ever came out of Oberlin!

  214. @Anonymous
    There are a couple of threads on that in last year's archive.

    The ANC had gotten so used to pushing ordinary whites around that it decided to start pushing bankers and mine-owners around as well. It received a sharp reminder that some 'whites' push back - and hard. The SA prime minister was ousted from power, a major humiliation. The ANC took revenge by stepping up its harassment of white farmers, which prompted international protests, notably including Trump. Since then things have gone quiet.

    Since then things have gone quiet.

    Things have gone quiet since Stefan Smit was murdered less than two weeks ago?

    June 3, 2019

    JOHANNESBURG — A South African farmer whose vineyard in the Stellenbosch wine region had been occupied by shack dwellers since last year has been shot and killed in his home, heightening tensions amid a contentious national debate over the ownership of land.

    Four men entered the house of the farmer, Stefan Smit, on Sunday evening before killing him, said Lt. Col. Andre Traut, a police spokesman. Mr. Smit’s home is about 30 miles east of Cape Town,

  215. @Alden
    I hadn’t heard or seen mention of Oberlin for decades. Most of the people I know never heard of Oberlin. Even in the1960s it was known as lunatic, lesbian socialist frump. vegetarian weirdo.

    Maybe rural Ohio was a happening place in 1840, but the left’s detestation of small town White America made Oberlin deeply unfashionable. Even Bennington, an all women school somewhere in the frozen forests of New England was more fashionable. Probably should have re located to Chicago, Detroit, Cincinnati St Louis around 1900.

    One enemy down, millions to go.

    The old semi-parody Official Preppy Handbook from 1980 lists Oberlin somewhere near the top of schools that are “out of the league” and my recollection is describes it as “girls wear scarves over their dirty hair”. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch.

  216. @Jack D
    I feel awful for the family now. Instead of having to stand behind the cash register all day and watch the students of Oberlin apply a 5 finger discount to their merchandise, they will have to move to La Jolla or somewhere with their $44 million and spend their days playing golf at Torrey Pines. It's awful, really.

    Frankly, for having to tolerate unpunished dindu attacks, seems reasonable. For once, they found deep pockets, which, obviously, most victims don’t.

  217. @Whiskey
    Oberlin has a trump card. No pun intended.

    Unleash the students on the entire town. Call in BLM and have anti fa and BLM beat the White out of the town and business owners and employees and citizens.

    It's not as if the police can do anything if there is huge mob of violent Black Lives Matter people pulling folks from cars and giving them the Reginald Denny beat down.

    I figure that's the response come Fall. Unleash the students, anti fa and BLM until the town surrenders or is burnt down.

    Laws don't apply to the SJW.

    It would be great if they did that. Campaign commercial for Trump 2020.

  218. @Realist

    My humble little college was almost unknown outside her church and her state. We had none of this “studies” fluff, though
     
    .

    They probably do now.

    Such majors at Oberlin and even at major “research” universities have to be easier to get through than anything we had.
     
    Only if your major was in a STEM discipline.

    They probably do now.

    You assume it still stands.

    • Replies: @Realist
    Whay school are you talking about?
  219. @Jack D
    Because "diversity" doesn't really mean diversity. You might say , well, "diverse" voices such as blacks and lesbians have been excluded in the past, so let's add some to the mix - it will be like putting some chili spice in this boring bland white man stew. It can't cause too much damage because white guys will still be in charge and we'll put the diverse in some "safe" place like HR. But in their mind, an institution is not really "diverse" until ALL the hateful white men are gone. HR controls hiring so over time the institution becomes woke from top to bottom.

    Business owners tend to be more insulated from PC than corporate types because they cannot be fired. So the type of pressure that might have worked on an employee at Oberlin, in the Silicon Valley, or the shit works did not work so well with the Gibsons’. They had to withstand the protests and attacks which must be particularly hard in a restaurant or food handler where their customers would be sensitive to food tampering or the regulators hassling them. But that having been said, if this culture is to survive, it might just be self employed people like this who have their backs to the wall and nothing to lose.

  220. @midtown
    My guess would be they went on a building spree, as many colleges have done, and used the rock-bottom interest rates available through the Obama years. And apparently most of the endowment is directed by donors to be spent on specific purposes, so they are fairly tied. There is a chance it could go under or at least radically transformed (heh).

    It would be interesting to hear what the SPLC has to say about this seeing that these types of lawsuits are right down their alley. They should be celebrating. This also might be a very good omen for the Covington Kids suit. The wake up call to liberals is that legal actions used to be exclusively their domain but it looks like that has changed.

  221. @Unladen Swallow
    Libel and slander are not protected by the First Amendment, anymore than threatening public safety is, I know what article you got that information from because I read it myself. The fact that a once conservative publication published that is just further evidence that the left is taking over everywhere.

    Being an alum, I don't think that guy was being completely honest how strong the case against the college was, if the dean texted she was going to unleash the mob on the bakery, that I think would be sufficient to prove damages. Not to mention the fact that the university terminated their contract, even though they knew the students stole and then beat the owner's son when he tried to stop it.

    if the dean texted she was going to unleash the mob on the bakery, that I think would be sufficient to prove damages.

    I am still waiting on the lawsuit by the aggrieved family that sues George Soros and his cohorts for the death of their child by some illegal alien that was smuggled here by an NGO he has funded. If it can be proved that their illegal and negligent actions contributed to a persons death, I see no reason why they should have two thin dimes left to rub together.

  222. @Jack D
    I don't think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin. There are no adults left in the room, just tattooed fat Lefist ladies like Dean Raimondo and other blacks, gays, Communists, hippies, etc. Oberlin has been Leftist before being Leftist was cool , like starting in 1830, so they have a big head start on wokiness and are much further down the road to ruin than institutions were wokiness is a more recent phenomenon.

    The good news is that I think that this judgment is (hopefully) what kicks them into high gear on their death spiral. Their enrollment has been declining and the bad publicity from this suit will affect the applications from future snowflakes and their parents. There is a limited number of people whose parents are willing to spend $300,000 on a worthless degree.

    I don’t think you realize the full extent of the wokiness of Oberlin.

    My friend’s kid (White) got a sports scholarship (lacrosse — i know!) to Oberlin. Nice kid. Handsome, well behaved, polite and hard-working.

    He had enough of being an object of scorn and hate (White lacrosse player at Oberlin, ’nuff said) and transferred the hell out of there after freshman year.

    His classmates demanded a professor give them all a “guaranteed C” because they were cutting class woke-demonstrating against imaginary evils.

    Because he valued learning and didn’t want to cut class his woke classmates spit on him (yes, it actually happened) and called him … wait for it … raaaccciiistt.

    He said that was just the tip of the iceberg. He couldn’t get out of there fast enough.

    His parents had had enough of this sh*t and expressly shopped around to send their youngest to a supermajority White college.

    The institutionalized anti-White hate on America’s campuses is worse than you think.

  223. @Weltanschauung
    From the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:


    A message sent by associate professor of music theory Jan Miyake said, “So heres one rhing (sic) on my mind about gibsons. They own so much prime property in oberlin that boycotting doesnt hurt them that much. The smear on their brand does, and that’s been taken care of.”

    The transcript of Miyake’s message was included in a recently unsealed court filing made by the attorneys for Gibson’s as part of the lawsuit filed against the college and Meredith Raimondo, vice president and dean of students, for libel, slander, interference with business relationships, interference with contracts, deceptive trade practices, intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligent hiring and trespass.

    The document also included some testimony given by Miyake during a deposition for the case. Miyake was asked what she meant by “the smear on their brand does.”

    “So the — I — it’s –—that hurts to have your brand smeared,” Miyake said. “So boycotting them doesn’t really hurt them, but having your brand hurt.”

    When asked how Gibson’s brand was smeared, Miyake said, “They protested outside the store for three days chanting, ‘Racists.’”

    Miyake was then asked what she’d meant that the smear of the brand had been taken care of.

    “It — it means that there’s no reason to keep doing that,” she said. “It’s done.”

     

    In her artless way, this professor offered an pretty good exposition of why defamation is a tort, in the course of confirming that she had been boasting of successfully committing it.

    A message sent by associate professor of music theory Jan Miyake said, “So heres one rhing (sic) on my mind about gibsons. They own so much prime property in oberlin that boycotting doesnt hurt them that much. The smear on their brand does, and that’s been taken care of.”

    Miyake the moron. The “smear on their brand” hurts Gibson’t because it results in boycotting.

  224. @Barnard
    Based on the articles I have read, it sounds like the trial was held in Elyria, a much larger town in the same county, ten miles from Oberlin. The area itself isn't near as liberal as the Oberlin students and faculty. Trump effectively tied Hillary in Lorain county.

    Elyria is the county seat. The courthouse is always in the county seat. The jury pool includes the whole county, which in this case is very populous with more than 300,000 people.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Indeed Mr. Tillman, and from the looks of things I'd say all that "high powered legal talent" in the wheel house at Oberlin was abjectly oblivious to the simplest of cocktail napkin math and Romper Room statistical analysis and odds making. To wit:

    The racial makeup of the county was 84.8% white, 8.6% black or African American, 0.9% Asian, 0.3% American Indian, 2.5% from other races, and 3.0% from two or more races. Those of Hispanic or Latino origin made up 8.4% of the population.[12] In terms of ancestry, 26.5% were German, 16.7% were Irish, 10.9% were English, 8.4% were Polish, 8.2% were Italian, 6.2% were American, and 5.2% were Hungarian.[14] --Wiki


    If the preponderance of the facts fit, you must find for the plaintiffs.-- to paraphrase Johnny Cochran

  225. @Whiskey
    Oberlin has a trump card. No pun intended.

    Unleash the students on the entire town. Call in BLM and have anti fa and BLM beat the White out of the town and business owners and employees and citizens.

    It's not as if the police can do anything if there is huge mob of violent Black Lives Matter people pulling folks from cars and giving them the Reginald Denny beat down.

    I figure that's the response come Fall. Unleash the students, anti fa and BLM until the town surrenders or is burnt down.

    Laws don't apply to the SJW.

    One problem: Ohioans often carry guns.

  226. @Realist
    Correct this happened because of dumbass self hating Whites.

    Correct this happened because of dumbass self hating Whites.

    It’s weird how the “dumbass self-hating Whites” never acknowledge their privilege and resign their prestigious sinecures to make room for a more deserving less privileged non-White.

    Instead they browbeat BadWhites to “step aside” whist feeling good and virtue-signaling and keeping their sinecures.

    Strange.

  227. @Ibound1
    Now imagine the President, the GC and the Dean of Students running your military, your electric company, your water company, your medical schools, your engineering schools, your monetary and trade policy. Running Oberlin is meaningless. They intend to run the country.

    Outstanding comment. I am afraid you are right.

  228. @Michael S
    I'm glad to see tortious interference in there. Roughly 99% of everything the diversity/outrage industry does is TI, and it's exactly the statute under which it should be prosecuted.

    I'd like to see Vox sued for 10 times that much for tortious interference of relationships between YouTube and its content creators, who receive money from YouTube and are therefore engaged in a business relationship. Maybe cases like this one will pave the way for larger class actions.

    Tortious Interference is indeed the SJW tort of choice. There are a few interesting culture war TI lawsuits working their way through the Texas courts right now.

    Meyer v. Waid: this is in comics books, which is a sad remnant of an industry thanks to politics infusing stories and reworking beloved characters into intersectional stars (black teen female Iron Man, female Thor etc). Mark Waid is a long time top comic book writer, male feminist and apparently a tantrum throwing manbaby. He made sure to document his TI all over his social media and in interviews.

    Mignogna v. Funimation: Anime English dubs. A long time voice actor named Vic Mignogna was me-too’d and chased out of his work and conventions. There don’t appear to be any real victims, just vague second hand rumours on social media and some clumsy passes. Once again much defamation and TI sprayed all over social media should make this a pretty fun case to watch.

    A YouTube lawyer named Nick Rekieta has been pointing out the TI for over a year now, and has decided to help SJWs feel consequences for their behavior by letting the targets of these attacks know how to fight back. Very entertaining. GoFundMe lets fans fed up with this nonsense help the victims of SJW mobbing pay for lawyers.

    In the old days, defamation was usually spread via a literal whisper network. TI happened on golf courses and in quiet hallways so it was hard to prove. These days the dummies put EVERYTHING in writing. Texts, twitter, etc.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    In the old days, defamation was usually spread via a literal whisper network. TI happened on golf courses and in quiet hallways so it was hard to prove.
     
    Could you offer some examples of defamation in the TI context that would have been spread this way?
  229. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    Look who’s the president of Oberlin, and the author of the dismissive email blast after the verdict (that the judge unfortunately withheld from the jury, although it didn’t reduce the punitive damages).

    And what do you know: Yet another black graduate of an Ivy League law school (Columbia) who isn’t working in the law. What’s the deal with that?

    She worked a little over three years in a New York City government law job whose pay is mid to high five figures. Then she shifted to university dean jobs, ending up as Oberlin president, which I think would pay mid six figures at least, finally making a dent in the student loan.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    Just from that photo, the inherent stupidity and clumsiness radiates outward. I'll bet Moochelle is her role model.
    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Yep, she finally got her proverbial "piece of the pie" and can now afford all the "processes" her heart desires-- including on her hair.
    , @Art Deco
    The ratio of degree recipients to working practitioners is higher in law than it is in any other occupation requiring professional school preparation bar one. (The one is the clergy. Astonishing share of those walking around with divinity degrees are not employed as clergy and never had any intention to be so employed). The production of JDs is such that it's a reasonable inference that 1/3 of them will not build a career in law. They'll make an attempt for a few years and decamp to some other occupation. (See the Obamas, neither of whom spent more than four years working in law offices). Higher ed administration is one place these failed lawyers repair to.
    , @Leo D
    This actually is not the author of the 'dismissive email blast after the verdict', this is...

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    ...though I can see how you got confused.

    It is worth noting that the CHIEF LEGAL COUNSEL at Oberlin had no concerns about dashing off an email for public consumption before the trial FOR DEFAMATION was concluded, more or less defaming the jury...

    Death by affirmative action...
  230. @Jack D
    It's not supposed to be the jury's job to "send a message" - in a proper justice system they are supposed to compensate people for the damages they have suffered. In rare cases punitive damages can be assessed as well. Using the civil justice system as a hammer to "send messages" to people you don't like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same. You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.

    It’s not supposed to be the jury’s job to “send a message”

    Wha? Of course it is. One major function of our justice system is punishment and deterrence. Including in civil cases.

    Using the civil justice system as a hammer to “send messages” to people you don’t like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same.

    You seem to have confused the perpetrators and instigators with the injured party. If someone punches you unprovoked and you hit that person back, it’s not relevant for a third party to inanely observe that “punching back is not much better than punching first for no reason.”

    Ironically, one of your favorite concepts is “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.” How does that not apply in this case?

    You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.

    To the contrary, I want the vibrant and/or the terminal left to show their true selves as much as possible. The OJ murder verdict is a great example.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Contra the Vichy Right (led by, appropriately enough, David French), the Insane Woke Posse such as the Oberlin admins very much do need to taste the whip of properly functioning American institutions and to taste it often before they’ll be brought into line.

    Their problem is snobbery (equal parts vanity and prejudice). The vanity piece can only be cured by proper humiliation.
    , @ThreeCranes
    Good job! You've definitely got a few more functioning brain cells that I have.
  231. @ThreeCranes
    an da Gibsons got the drumstick, gravy and stuffin'.

    score!

  232. @Anon
    Look who's the president of Oberlin, and the author of the dismissive email blast after the verdict (that the judge unfortunately withheld from the jury, although it didn't reduce the punitive damages).

    https://c2.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Carmen-Twillie-Ambar-Oberlin-College-President-e1560526735780-620x435.jpg

    And what do you know: Yet another black graduate of an Ivy League law school (Columbia) who isn't working in the law. What's the deal with that?

    She worked a little over three years in a New York City government law job whose pay is mid to high five figures. Then she shifted to university dean jobs, ending up as Oberlin president, which I think would pay mid six figures at least, finally making a dent in the student loan.

    Just from that photo, the inherent stupidity and clumsiness radiates outward. I’ll bet Moochelle is her role model.

  233. @Jack D
    No, this didn't happen because of the dindu's. Dindus do what dindus always do since time immemorial. That hasn't changed.

    This happened because the reaction of the college (which is supposed to be run by adults) was not to expel the dindus for honor code violation as they should have, but rather condemn the business owner for being "racist" and then help to organize a boycott of the business using the students as their goons. They also demanded that in the future the business owner not call the police on shoplifters (especially when they were black Oberlin students). Instead of upholding the standards of true justice and morality ("thou shalt not steal") they opted for "racial" justice - they lost sight of their mission.

    Prime dindu video and pics here/ Must scroll down to see the wine bottle stealer (on video!) being arrested by bored white police. https://turtleboysports.com/dumbass-oberlin-college-students-cost-the-school-33-million-for-destroying-a-family-owned-business-they-called-racist-after-a-whiny-bitch-got-caught-stealing/

    And he (dindu) went to Phillips Exeter Academy in New Hamphire

  234. @Anon
    Look who's the president of Oberlin, and the author of the dismissive email blast after the verdict (that the judge unfortunately withheld from the jury, although it didn't reduce the punitive damages).

    https://c2.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Carmen-Twillie-Ambar-Oberlin-College-President-e1560526735780-620x435.jpg

    And what do you know: Yet another black graduate of an Ivy League law school (Columbia) who isn't working in the law. What's the deal with that?

    She worked a little over three years in a New York City government law job whose pay is mid to high five figures. Then she shifted to university dean jobs, ending up as Oberlin president, which I think would pay mid six figures at least, finally making a dent in the student loan.

    Yep, she finally got her proverbial “piece of the pie” and can now afford all the “processes” her heart desires– including on her hair.

  235. @ben tillman
    Elyria is the county seat. The courthouse is always in the county seat. The jury pool includes the whole county, which in this case is very populous with more than 300,000 people.

    Indeed Mr. Tillman, and from the looks of things I’d say all that “high powered legal talent” in the wheel house at Oberlin was abjectly oblivious to the simplest of cocktail napkin math and Romper Room statistical analysis and odds making. To wit:

    The racial makeup of the county was 84.8% white, 8.6% black or African American, 0.9% Asian, 0.3% American Indian, 2.5% from other races, and 3.0% from two or more races. Those of Hispanic or Latino origin made up 8.4% of the population.[12] In terms of ancestry, 26.5% were German, 16.7% were Irish, 10.9% were English, 8.4% were Polish, 8.2% were Italian, 6.2% were American, and 5.2% were Hungarian.[14] –Wiki

    If the preponderance of the facts fit, you must find for the plaintiffs.– to paraphrase Johnny Cochran

  236. @Anon
    Look who's the president of Oberlin, and the author of the dismissive email blast after the verdict (that the judge unfortunately withheld from the jury, although it didn't reduce the punitive damages).

    https://c2.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Carmen-Twillie-Ambar-Oberlin-College-President-e1560526735780-620x435.jpg

    And what do you know: Yet another black graduate of an Ivy League law school (Columbia) who isn't working in the law. What's the deal with that?

    She worked a little over three years in a New York City government law job whose pay is mid to high five figures. Then she shifted to university dean jobs, ending up as Oberlin president, which I think would pay mid six figures at least, finally making a dent in the student loan.

    The ratio of degree recipients to working practitioners is higher in law than it is in any other occupation requiring professional school preparation bar one. (The one is the clergy. Astonishing share of those walking around with divinity degrees are not employed as clergy and never had any intention to be so employed). The production of JDs is such that it’s a reasonable inference that 1/3 of them will not build a career in law. They’ll make an attempt for a few years and decamp to some other occupation. (See the Obamas, neither of whom spent more than four years working in law offices). Higher ed administration is one place these failed lawyers repair to.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Astonishing share of those walking around with divinity degrees are not employed as clergy and never had any intention to be so employed
     
    Young UMC women who don’t know what to do with themselves are the full-ride paying Asians of American seminaries. Not that those seminaries don’t also enjoy the benefits of full-ride paying Asians as well.

    All that sweet, sweet cash allows those seminaries to forget about (or worse) the churches that founded them.
  237. @Realist

    The widespread prevalence of this sort of thinking (sic), particularly among erstwhile conservatives who should know better, is how Oberlin became the joke it is today.
     
    What sort of thinking is that? That Oberlin offers STEM majors?

    That STEM is the only alternative to Studies bullshit, especially for a school like Oberlin, which rightfully enjoys a long-standing and proud tradition of educational excellence in the Liberal Arts.

    It was the abandonment of that tradition (and the faith which gave it life) by those who would today be called conservatives that left the door open for the Left and worse.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Lamb, calf, whatever.
    , @Anonymous

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.
     
    What does this even mean?
    , @Realist
    It appears you didn't do well in science and math. Your comment is anti-science.
    , @Alden
    Liberal arts Stanford 196o to 1963 was Marxism and civil rights for blacks worship of the East Palo Alto black thugs Marxism Marxism Marxism anti senator McCarthy anti capitalism.

    They didn’t hate the blue collar workers yet. But it was mass hatred of southerners. They were always organizing us to go to East Palo Alto to tutor the moron kids and “work with” the unfortunates and picket the landlords and stores. Also wanted us to contribute to a fund to pay the blacks utility bills. If East Palo Alto didn’t exist they’d have competed with the Berkeley profs for the Oakland thugs.

    When did colleges concentrate on teaching research and building up the library instead of overthrowing society?

    For those who don’t know, East Palo Alto was created at some point to house the black maids and handymen who worked in the then all White southern suburbs of San Francisco.

    As always, always happens, the maids and handymen had little boy babies and those boys turned East Palo Alto into a criminal ghetto. Problem was, they wouldn’t stay in their ghetto. They rampaged around the White neighborhoods.

    The Stanford profs sure loved East Palo Alto. Real live poverty stricken negroes! just waiting to be saved by the crusading Stanford profs.

    I spent most of my academic time in the library reading anti communist books. I’d take them to class and read them.
    , @Alden
    Oberlin has a long standing tradition of insane liberal propaganda applied to anything and everything since 1830. It was started by abolitionists to foment the civil war.

    Personal opinion is that teachers are totally unnecessary for liberal arts. Read the books. Memorize the facts Pass the test. Why listen to some fool inserting his her opinions?
  238. @Art Deco
    The ratio of degree recipients to working practitioners is higher in law than it is in any other occupation requiring professional school preparation bar one. (The one is the clergy. Astonishing share of those walking around with divinity degrees are not employed as clergy and never had any intention to be so employed). The production of JDs is such that it's a reasonable inference that 1/3 of them will not build a career in law. They'll make an attempt for a few years and decamp to some other occupation. (See the Obamas, neither of whom spent more than four years working in law offices). Higher ed administration is one place these failed lawyers repair to.

    Astonishing share of those walking around with divinity degrees are not employed as clergy and never had any intention to be so employed

    Young UMC women who don’t know what to do with themselves are the full-ride paying Asians of American seminaries. Not that those seminaries don’t also enjoy the benefits of full-ride paying Asians as well.

    All that sweet, sweet cash allows those seminaries to forget about (or worse) the churches that founded them.

  239. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    It’s not supposed to be the jury’s job to “send a message”
     
    Wha? Of course it is. One major function of our justice system is punishment and deterrence. Including in civil cases.

    Using the civil justice system as a hammer to “send messages” to people you don’t like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same.
     
    You seem to have confused the perpetrators and instigators with the injured party. If someone punches you unprovoked and you hit that person back, it’s not relevant for a third party to inanely observe that “punching back is not much better than punching first for no reason.”

    Ironically, one of your favorite concepts is “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.” How does that not apply in this case?

    You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.
     
    To the contrary, I want the vibrant and/or the terminal left to show their true selves as much as possible. The OJ murder verdict is a great example.

    Contra the Vichy Right (led by, appropriately enough, David French), the Insane Woke Posse such as the Oberlin admins very much do need to taste the whip of properly functioning American institutions and to taste it often before they’ll be brought into line.

    Their problem is snobbery (equal parts vanity and prejudice). The vanity piece can only be cured by proper humiliation.

  240. @Desiderius
    That STEM is the only alternative to Studies bullshit, especially for a school like Oberlin, which rightfully enjoys a long-standing and proud tradition of educational excellence in the Liberal Arts.

    It was the abandonment of that tradition (and the faith which gave it life) by those who would today be called conservatives that left the door open for the Left and worse.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.

    Lamb, calf, whatever.

  241. @AnotherDad

    I’m beginning to understand how Oberlin got into so much trouble. Their Vice-President and General Counsel Donica Thomas Varner sent out a “How Dare They Think We’re Wrong,” email to alumni while the trial was still going.
     
    One of the problems of the Stalinist PC orthodoxy is that it inhibits normal people from normal questioning.

    Why did the board turn Oberlin presidency over to an angry black woman, and the VP and general counsel over to another angry black woman, with the VP Dean of Students already a fugly obese white lesbian? Maybe because no one is allowed to say "Hey maybe we shouldn't let our university be run entirely by the estrogen crowd, much less chippy AA black ones ... lets have an actually competent white guy in the mix to make sure there's some male rationality and sanity around the table."

    no one is allowed

    When the going gets tough Boomerdads get passive.

  242. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Some broad
    Tortious Interference is indeed the SJW tort of choice. There are a few interesting culture war TI lawsuits working their way through the Texas courts right now.

    Meyer v. Waid: this is in comics books, which is a sad remnant of an industry thanks to politics infusing stories and reworking beloved characters into intersectional stars (black teen female Iron Man, female Thor etc). Mark Waid is a long time top comic book writer, male feminist and apparently a tantrum throwing manbaby. He made sure to document his TI all over his social media and in interviews.

    Mignogna v. Funimation: Anime English dubs. A long time voice actor named Vic Mignogna was me-too’d and chased out of his work and conventions. There don’t appear to be any real victims, just vague second hand rumours on social media and some clumsy passes. Once again much defamation and TI sprayed all over social media should make this a pretty fun case to watch.

    A YouTube lawyer named Nick Rekieta has been pointing out the TI for over a year now, and has decided to help SJWs feel consequences for their behavior by letting the targets of these attacks know how to fight back. Very entertaining. GoFundMe lets fans fed up with this nonsense help the victims of SJW mobbing pay for lawyers.

    In the old days, defamation was usually spread via a literal whisper network. TI happened on golf courses and in quiet hallways so it was hard to prove. These days the dummies put EVERYTHING in writing. Texts, twitter, etc.

    In the old days, defamation was usually spread via a literal whisper network. TI happened on golf courses and in quiet hallways so it was hard to prove.

    Could you offer some examples of defamation in the TI context that would have been spread this way?

  243. Anonymous[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    That STEM is the only alternative to Studies bullshit, especially for a school like Oberlin, which rightfully enjoys a long-standing and proud tradition of educational excellence in the Liberal Arts.

    It was the abandonment of that tradition (and the faith which gave it life) by those who would today be called conservatives that left the door open for the Left and worse.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.

    What does this even mean?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    If H1Bs can do your job at half the price, you just got conned out of whatever it was you paid for tuition for your “practical” degree. Most STEM degrees are passes through gates whose keepers are the only ones who really get paid. Even those who do well end up not using much of they learned in that degree and would have been better off entering the workforce directly.

    Of course there are exceptions, but that’s what I mean by vocational school. If you’re going into a specialty that’s great, need those, but that’s also not preparing you for leadership.

    In reality the Liberal Arts taught and learned properly are the most practical education one can get, but for most that birthright was traded away for a mess of STEM pottage a few generations back.
  244. @Ibound1
    If anyone has any sympathy for Oberlin, I urge you to read the lawsuit and look at the flyer which was distributed. You can find the flier on page 10 of the complaint. Just read the flier.

    https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://oberlinreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Common-Pleas_Gibson-Bros.-v-Oberlin-College-Meredith-Raimondo.pdf&hl=en

    According to the complaint the flier was printed on Oberlin copying machines and was distributed by Dean Raimondo. If the jury found that to be true, I can see why they awarded the damages.

    Ibound1,

    Thanks for posting the link to the complaint. Looks like “parking space” was the real beef/issue! That bakery possesses something way more valuable than doughnuts; a parking lot. In the complaint it states that parking disputes/complaints/infractions related to the lot own by the bakery is where the ill will towards the bakery really originated.

  245. @Anon
    Look who's the president of Oberlin, and the author of the dismissive email blast after the verdict (that the judge unfortunately withheld from the jury, although it didn't reduce the punitive damages).

    https://c2.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Carmen-Twillie-Ambar-Oberlin-College-President-e1560526735780-620x435.jpg

    And what do you know: Yet another black graduate of an Ivy League law school (Columbia) who isn't working in the law. What's the deal with that?

    She worked a little over three years in a New York City government law job whose pay is mid to high five figures. Then she shifted to university dean jobs, ending up as Oberlin president, which I think would pay mid six figures at least, finally making a dent in the student loan.

    This actually is not the author of the ‘dismissive email blast after the verdict’, this is…

    https://www.oberlin.edu/donica-varner

    …though I can see how you got confused.

    It is worth noting that the CHIEF LEGAL COUNSEL at Oberlin had no concerns about dashing off an email for public consumption before the trial FOR DEFAMATION was concluded, more or less defaming the jury…

    Death by affirmative action…

  246. @Art Deco
    Oberlin has a self-regenerating board. What that's led to over time is a lot of people who run mutual funds and hedge funds and the like placing people like themselves on the board. One after another in this odd slice of the the financial sector. These are the people who put the current regime in charge at Oberlin. Casino bankers are not your friends. Ever.

    I remember Liberal Arts faculty at the Ivies (back when they were still largely legit, if rooting for the wrong team) lamenting how many of their best and brightest were choosing finance over the Humanities.

    Those students are now our leaders (sic) and we wonder why they’re so inhumane.

  247. @AnotherDad
    This must be a darn big "bakery" if there were--or their lawyers could even plausibly sketch out a case for--$11 million in actual damages.

    Are Oberlin students such sheep that the all suddenly stopped going to this place?

    Legal Insurrection said Gibson’s revenue dropped almost half a million because of this. Project that out over a decade or two (reasonable since it’s a long-established business) and there’s your 11 million right there.

    In a small town like Oberlin, (5 thousand non students) when the college (a quarter $billion business) sneezes everyone gets pneumonia or worse.

  248. @Jack D
    No, this didn't happen because of the dindu's. Dindus do what dindus always do since time immemorial. That hasn't changed.

    This happened because the reaction of the college (which is supposed to be run by adults) was not to expel the dindus for honor code violation as they should have, but rather condemn the business owner for being "racist" and then help to organize a boycott of the business using the students as their goons. They also demanded that in the future the business owner not call the police on shoplifters (especially when they were black Oberlin students). Instead of upholding the standards of true justice and morality ("thou shalt not steal") they opted for "racial" justice - they lost sight of their mission.

    If the college had dared to expel or otherwise discipline the thieves they would have been shut down by “righteous” protests and everyone knows this.

    Look at what happened at Mizzou, where the alleged offenses never even happened in the first place.

    Besides, “racial justice” is and has always been one of Oberlin’s primary raisons d’etre hence the makeup of its senior administration.

  249. @Jack D
    This was not driven by their lawyers. I'll bet the lawyers counseled them to settle in some fashion, if not the total abdication that you propose. If on day one, they had called up the other side and said, "here's half a million and we sign a confidential settlement agreement tomorrow before we've all spent a lot on legal fees," the other side would have taken it.


    But the Oberlin administration wouldn't hear of it - they had RACIAL JUSTICE on their side and were full of righteous anger. No way were they going to give any money to those racist white crackers. It's not the administrator's own money anyway, so it's no problem to piss the endowment away rather than causing the admins to lose face.

    It’s not the administrator’s own money anyway, so it’s no problem to piss the endowment away

    Ahhh, perhaps the most decisive crux of the matter.

    Combine this with all of the intersectionality the administrators have – making them ten feet tall and bulletproof – and *this* is what ya get.

  250. @Desiderius
    That STEM is the only alternative to Studies bullshit, especially for a school like Oberlin, which rightfully enjoys a long-standing and proud tradition of educational excellence in the Liberal Arts.

    It was the abandonment of that tradition (and the faith which gave it life) by those who would today be called conservatives that left the door open for the Left and worse.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.

    It appears you didn’t do well in science and math. Your comment is anti-science.

    • LOL: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Full ride to Georgia Tech, top ISyE program in the world.

    Sure, sucked at science and math. Your ignorance is colossal.
  251. @Reg Cæsar

    They probably do now.
     
    You assume it still stands.

    Whay school are you talking about?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Nice trick, Morris. But it won't work.

    My ZIP Code starts with a 5. That's as much information as you'll get from me.
  252. @Jack D
    It's not supposed to be the jury's job to "send a message" - in a proper justice system they are supposed to compensate people for the damages they have suffered. In rare cases punitive damages can be assessed as well. Using the civil justice system as a hammer to "send messages" to people you don't like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same. You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.

    “Power is scary so we can never use it” is why the mainstream Right in this country is on the ropes.

    Well unless its using power on behalf of a certain (((2%))) its all well and good. But for your average American just trying to get by? That’s scary!

  253. Since so many of our enemies take the form of a nonprofit, a good skill for the alt-right to learn would be how to read an IRS form 990.

    I am no kind of expert but Oberlin’s recent 990s answer some of the questions people have raised here, such as

    Q: How much does Ambar make? A: Her predecessor Marvin Krislov made $552,956 in 2017.
    Q: What’s Oberlin’s cash flow? A: Loss of $23 million on rev of $235 mil. Over one quarter of expenses were grants.
    Q: Balance sheet? A: Liabilities grew $19 million or 7%, thanks to a $23 mil increase in tax-exempt bond liabilities. Fabian is onto something.

  254. @Anonymous

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.
     
    What does this even mean?

    If H1Bs can do your job at half the price, you just got conned out of whatever it was you paid for tuition for your “practical” degree. Most STEM degrees are passes through gates whose keepers are the only ones who really get paid. Even those who do well end up not using much of they learned in that degree and would have been better off entering the workforce directly.

    Of course there are exceptions, but that’s what I mean by vocational school. If you’re going into a specialty that’s great, need those, but that’s also not preparing you for leadership.

    In reality the Liberal Arts taught and learned properly are the most practical education one can get, but for most that birthright was traded away for a mess of STEM pottage a few generations back.

  255. @Realist
    It appears you didn't do well in science and math. Your comment is anti-science.

    Full ride to Georgia Tech, top ISyE program in the world.

    Sure, sucked at science and math. Your ignorance is colossal.

    • Replies: @Realist

    Your ignorance is colossal.
     
    Your comments are bullshit.
  256. @Realist
    Whay school are you talking about?

    Nice trick, Morris. But it won’t work.

    My ZIP Code starts with a 5. That’s as much information as you’ll get from me.

    • Replies: @Realist

    My ZIP Code starts with a 5. That’s as much information as you’ll get from me.

     

    What does your zip code have to do with the college you attended? You are evading the question.
  257. @Jack D
    I'd have to read the whole record but it sound like "actual" damages were at least a part of what they were arguing about. IIRC, the $11M was broken up among the corporation and the father and son and part (I guess the corporation's part) was for "actual" damages and the father and the son got "assumed" damages.

    In case of libel per se, you get "assumed" damages even if you can't show any actual loss. Maybe you are a housewife with no income but your enemy prints a column in which she accuses you of being a whore. The court can assume that the plaintiff has suffered harm to her reputation, or experienced shame, mortification, or hurt feelings, etc. and put a value on those. There's no set yardstick or methodology for this the way there is for valuing a business, which is why the jury was free to go sky high on on those numbers.

    This case is a good example of why punitive damages are necessary and good. Oberlin will probably not attack local Whites for a while.

    The Washington Post, NYSlimes t, MSNBC CNN and the rest of the anti White media will probably not attack and defame another 16 year old White boy who says not a word in the DC mall while a deranged homeless American Indian shrieks hatred at him.

    Racist smirking, something only White hating liberals could make up.

    There’s also racist hair. Racist hair is horribly offensive practically a KKK robe and hood. Racist hair is White women’s hair which causes resentment envy offense and pain to black women. Don’t laugh guys. It’s a big problem in HR training and seminars

    Oh for the good old days when all HR did was hire fire approve vacation schedules and write paychecks

  258. @Known Fact
    Famed alums include Lena Dunham, Eric Bogosian and Alison Bechdel of Dykes to Watch Out For fame. Also Michelle Malkin.

    It’s hard to believe Michelle Malkin went to Oberlin. Did they give her a full scholarship because she’s Philippine? Maybe that’s why she turned conservative. How could she stand it?

    Oberlin churning out lunatic liberals since 1830
    Founded by lunatic liberals

  259. I was looking for alumni reaction to the case. Among many progressive things, Oberlin brags about being a stop on the Underground railway.

    Has anyone seen anything about Oberlin alumni reaction to the case? A liberal friend claims alumni will stop donating because of the case. I think Oberlin alumni are lunatic liberals just like the staff and students. She didn’t believe that the 3 blacks beat the clerk. I had to send her endless reports from Legal Insurrection before she believed me.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I doubt lunatic. My own experience of street-level Democrats is that they think in templates. They use the template to form their opinion and don't process general information flow beyond that. Persuading a random Oberlin grad that there is something terribly wrong there would be a very labor intensive enterprise and it wouldn't motivate them to do anything about it even were they so persuaded. They would have to have a well-formed conception of what the institution was for contra the SJW vision and be willing to argue it in a cultural matrix where that is status-lowering. Not happening. This also prevents the serious academicians on the faculty from doing much of anything. Faculty are nothing if not other-directed and status conscious.
    , @ThreeCranes
    Another small Ohio college, Antioch, went down the same path and finally, due to donations from alumni drying up, spiraled down the drain.* This will be Oberlin's fate if they don't wise up.

    *Presently, Antioch College is clawing its way back from the brink of insolvency and towards respectability.
    , @Ibound1
    What will kill Oberlin are rich liberal parents. Their children may have been raised to sneer at common bakery owners but not to sneer at money. They want their children to have jobs. I for one would be extremely “careful” before hiring an Oberlin grad in my department. Parents will understand that sending their child to Oberlin will not help their career chances and it’s parents that pay the large Oberlin bills. The Dean of Students, the President and the GC were playing at those roles, insulated from any reality. This is reality.
  260. @Desiderius
    That STEM is the only alternative to Studies bullshit, especially for a school like Oberlin, which rightfully enjoys a long-standing and proud tradition of educational excellence in the Liberal Arts.

    It was the abandonment of that tradition (and the faith which gave it life) by those who would today be called conservatives that left the door open for the Left and worse.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.

    Liberal arts Stanford 196o to 1963 was Marxism and civil rights for blacks worship of the East Palo Alto black thugs Marxism Marxism Marxism anti senator McCarthy anti capitalism.

    They didn’t hate the blue collar workers yet. But it was mass hatred of southerners. They were always organizing us to go to East Palo Alto to tutor the moron kids and “work with” the unfortunates and picket the landlords and stores. Also wanted us to contribute to a fund to pay the blacks utility bills. If East Palo Alto didn’t exist they’d have competed with the Berkeley profs for the Oakland thugs.

    When did colleges concentrate on teaching research and building up the library instead of overthrowing society?

    For those who don’t know, East Palo Alto was created at some point to house the black maids and handymen who worked in the then all White southern suburbs of San Francisco.

    As always, always happens, the maids and handymen had little boy babies and those boys turned East Palo Alto into a criminal ghetto. Problem was, they wouldn’t stay in their ghetto. They rampaged around the White neighborhoods.

    The Stanford profs sure loved East Palo Alto. Real live poverty stricken negroes! just waiting to be saved by the crusading Stanford profs.

    I spent most of my academic time in the library reading anti communist books. I’d take them to class and read them.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    When did colleges concentrate on teaching research and building up the library instead of overthrowing society?
     
    1088 (founding of University of Bologna) - 2019?

    Overthrowing society (well, trying to) comes naturally for rising generations. That's what they're for (note: not faculty and admins, you're on the other team). What survives that refiners fire is has proven it's worth until the next generation comes along. That which survives two millenia is formidable indeed.

    https://youtu.be/LI1Kpy0N-4Y
  261. @Desiderius
    That STEM is the only alternative to Studies bullshit, especially for a school like Oberlin, which rightfully enjoys a long-standing and proud tradition of educational excellence in the Liberal Arts.

    It was the abandonment of that tradition (and the faith which gave it life) by those who would today be called conservatives that left the door open for the Left and worse.

    The STEM golden lamb is in most cases glorified vocational school and a shitty one at that.

    Oberlin has a long standing tradition of insane liberal propaganda applied to anything and everything since 1830. It was started by abolitionists to foment the civil war.

    Personal opinion is that teachers are totally unnecessary for liberal arts. Read the books. Memorize the facts Pass the test. Why listen to some fool inserting his her opinions?

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Memorize the facts
     
    You're not doing it right.

    A good teacher is a guide and a goad; a great one an inspiration.
  262. @Desiderius
    Full ride to Georgia Tech, top ISyE program in the world.

    Sure, sucked at science and math. Your ignorance is colossal.

    Your ignorance is colossal.

    Your comments are bullshit.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    No, they're true. Sad, but still true.

    Perhaps there is a possibility you haven't considered. The Ivies did plenty of world-class scuence before STEM was invented and Edison never darkened the door of a high school, let alone a college.

    The bottom line is that our present ruling class are fools at best and the question that should be at hand is why. STEM is particularly unsuited for the prevention of foolishness.

  263. @Reg Cæsar
    Nice trick, Morris. But it won't work.

    My ZIP Code starts with a 5. That's as much information as you'll get from me.

    My ZIP Code starts with a 5. That’s as much information as you’ll get from me.

    What does your zip code have to do with the college you attended? You are evading the question.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I'm not "evading" it. I'm choosing not to answer it.
  264. @Alden
    I was looking for alumni reaction to the case. Among many progressive things, Oberlin brags about being a stop on the Underground railway.

    Has anyone seen anything about Oberlin alumni reaction to the case? A liberal friend claims alumni will stop donating because of the case. I think Oberlin alumni are lunatic liberals just like the staff and students. She didn’t believe that the 3 blacks beat the clerk. I had to send her endless reports from Legal Insurrection before she believed me.

    I doubt lunatic. My own experience of street-level Democrats is that they think in templates. They use the template to form their opinion and don’t process general information flow beyond that. Persuading a random Oberlin grad that there is something terribly wrong there would be a very labor intensive enterprise and it wouldn’t motivate them to do anything about it even were they so persuaded. They would have to have a well-formed conception of what the institution was for contra the SJW vision and be willing to argue it in a cultural matrix where that is status-lowering. Not happening. This also prevents the serious academicians on the faculty from doing much of anything. Faculty are nothing if not other-directed and status conscious.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    They would have to have a well-formed conception of what the institution was for contra the SJW vision and be willing to argue it in a cultural matrix where that is status-lowering. Not happening.
     
    SJWism is moving downmarket. Once Taylor Swift is woke it becomes imperative to find the next new thing pronto for those whose status depends on being ahead of the likes of Taylor Swift. This creates two opportunities:

    (1) Being the next new thing, the Quilette play

    (2) Gaining converts to timeless values, so one can occupy oneself with endeavors more meaningful than, say, caring about what the likes of Taylor Swift think one way or another
  265. @Realist

    Your ignorance is colossal.
     
    Your comments are bullshit.

    No, they’re true. Sad, but still true.

    Perhaps there is a possibility you haven’t considered. The Ivies did plenty of world-class scuence before STEM was invented and Edison never darkened the door of a high school, let alone a college.

    The bottom line is that our present ruling class are fools at best and the question that should be at hand is why. STEM is particularly unsuited for the prevention of foolishness.

    • Replies: @Realist

    ...Edison never darkened the door of a high school, let alone a college
     
    .

    That was obvious he had no concept of science let alone material science. His discoveries were the result of tinkering and hiring people people with high IQ's and stealing their ideas and discoveries.
    In a word he was an asshole. And a very overrated asshole at that.
  266. @Art Deco
    I doubt lunatic. My own experience of street-level Democrats is that they think in templates. They use the template to form their opinion and don't process general information flow beyond that. Persuading a random Oberlin grad that there is something terribly wrong there would be a very labor intensive enterprise and it wouldn't motivate them to do anything about it even were they so persuaded. They would have to have a well-formed conception of what the institution was for contra the SJW vision and be willing to argue it in a cultural matrix where that is status-lowering. Not happening. This also prevents the serious academicians on the faculty from doing much of anything. Faculty are nothing if not other-directed and status conscious.

    They would have to have a well-formed conception of what the institution was for contra the SJW vision and be willing to argue it in a cultural matrix where that is status-lowering. Not happening.

    SJWism is moving downmarket. Once Taylor Swift is woke it becomes imperative to find the next new thing pronto for those whose status depends on being ahead of the likes of Taylor Swift. This creates two opportunities:

    (1) Being the next new thing, the Quilette play

    (2) Gaining converts to timeless values, so one can occupy oneself with endeavors more meaningful than, say, caring about what the likes of Taylor Swift think one way or another

  267. @Alden
    Liberal arts Stanford 196o to 1963 was Marxism and civil rights for blacks worship of the East Palo Alto black thugs Marxism Marxism Marxism anti senator McCarthy anti capitalism.

    They didn’t hate the blue collar workers yet. But it was mass hatred of southerners. They were always organizing us to go to East Palo Alto to tutor the moron kids and “work with” the unfortunates and picket the landlords and stores. Also wanted us to contribute to a fund to pay the blacks utility bills. If East Palo Alto didn’t exist they’d have competed with the Berkeley profs for the Oakland thugs.

    When did colleges concentrate on teaching research and building up the library instead of overthrowing society?

    For those who don’t know, East Palo Alto was created at some point to house the black maids and handymen who worked in the then all White southern suburbs of San Francisco.

    As always, always happens, the maids and handymen had little boy babies and those boys turned East Palo Alto into a criminal ghetto. Problem was, they wouldn’t stay in their ghetto. They rampaged around the White neighborhoods.

    The Stanford profs sure loved East Palo Alto. Real live poverty stricken negroes! just waiting to be saved by the crusading Stanford profs.

    I spent most of my academic time in the library reading anti communist books. I’d take them to class and read them.

    When did colleges concentrate on teaching research and building up the library instead of overthrowing society?

    1088 (founding of University of Bologna) – 2019?

    Overthrowing society (well, trying to) comes naturally for rising generations. That’s what they’re for (note: not faculty and admins, you’re on the other team). What survives that refiners fire is has proven it’s worth until the next generation comes along. That which survives two millenia is formidable indeed.

  268. @Alden
    Oberlin has a long standing tradition of insane liberal propaganda applied to anything and everything since 1830. It was started by abolitionists to foment the civil war.

    Personal opinion is that teachers are totally unnecessary for liberal arts. Read the books. Memorize the facts Pass the test. Why listen to some fool inserting his her opinions?

    Memorize the facts

    You’re not doing it right.

    A good teacher is a guide and a goad; a great one an inspiration.

  269. @Desiderius
    No, they're true. Sad, but still true.

    Perhaps there is a possibility you haven't considered. The Ivies did plenty of world-class scuence before STEM was invented and Edison never darkened the door of a high school, let alone a college.

    The bottom line is that our present ruling class are fools at best and the question that should be at hand is why. STEM is particularly unsuited for the prevention of foolishness.

    …Edison never darkened the door of a high school, let alone a college

    .

    That was obvious he had no concept of science let alone material science. His discoveries were the result of tinkering and hiring people people with high IQ’s and stealing their ideas and discoveries.
    In a word he was an asshole. And a very overrated asshole at that.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Einstein said that Edison would’ve been a much greater inventor had Edison actually understood science.
  270. res says:
    @Realist

    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies
     
    Your reply is disingenuous. They also offer a number of STEM majors. Most colleges offer the courses you listed, including MIT, Stanford and Princeton.

    Courses and departments are different. Here is the list of Oberlin’s “academic” departments:
    https://www.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments

    Here is a list of MIT’s academic departments. You will notice nothing like jon’s examples appears here.
    https://web.mit.edu/facts/academic.html

    And you had the gall to call jon’s comment disingenuous. Why do people engage in such blatant projection?

    P.S. If anyone wants more detail, here is a listing of degrees granted by Oberlin in 2016-2017 by field.
    https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/oberlin-college/academic-life/academic-majors/

  271. res says:
    @Realist

    You made me curious, so here is a highlight list from their website of the different departments:

    Africana Studies
    East Asian Studies
    Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
    Hispanic Studies
    Jewish Studies
    Latin American Studies
     
    Your reply is disingenuous. They also offer a number of STEM majors. Most colleges offer the courses you listed, including MIT, Stanford and Princeton.

    Courses and departments are different. Here is the list of Oberlin’s “academic” departments:
    https://www.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments

    Here is a list of MIT’s academic departments. You will notice nothing like jon’s examples appears here.
    https://web.mit.edu/facts/academic.html

    And you had the gall to call jon’s comment disingenuous. Why do people engage in such blatant projection?

    P.S. If anyone wants more detail, here is a listing of degrees granted by Oberlin in 2016-2017 by field.
    https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/oberlin-college/academic-life/academic-majors/

    • Replies: @res
    Sorry about the double post. The site errored and then did not offer an edit window.

    P.S. Here's the error page message if anyone wants to debug:

    Wrong Post Type; Use Instead

    RETURN TO CORRECT ADMIN SECTION
  272. @res
    Courses and departments are different. Here is the list of Oberlin's "academic" departments:
    https://www.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments

    Here is a list of MIT's academic departments. You will notice nothing like jon's examples appears here.
    https://web.mit.edu/facts/academic.html

    And you had the gall to call jon's comment disingenuous. Why do people engage in such blatant projection?

    P.S. If anyone wants more detail, here is a listing of degrees granted by Oberlin in 2016-2017 by field.
    https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/oberlin-college/academic-life/academic-majors/

    Sorry about the double post. The site errored and then did not offer an edit window.

    P.S. Here’s the error page message if anyone wants to debug:

    Wrong Post Type; Use Instead

    RETURN TO CORRECT ADMIN SECTION

  273. @Paleo Liberal
    I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    It does appear to be a great deal of town vs. gown hatred here. It appears that townspeople are sick and tired of being pushed around by the college and are striking a blow against the hated enemy. If so, it is entirely possible the judgment was spite, rather than justice.

    In the meantime, many other local businesses depend on the college and its students for some of their business. As arrogant as the college has gotten, it would hurt the community if the college collapsed. The main point of the suit was how the college could poison the symbiotic relationship between town and gown. They hate each other but depend on each other.

    You make some decent comments here, but when you kick into your citation less FUD mode (as in that comment’s first paragraph) you are worthless.

  274. @Paleo Liberal
    I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    It does appear to be a great deal of town vs. gown hatred here. It appears that townspeople are sick and tired of being pushed around by the college and are striking a blow against the hated enemy. If so, it is entirely possible the judgment was spite, rather than justice.

    In the meantime, many other local businesses depend on the college and its students for some of their business. As arrogant as the college has gotten, it would hurt the community if the college collapsed. The main point of the suit was how the college could poison the symbiotic relationship between town and gown. They hate each other but depend on each other.

    I have read some articles which opine that the verdict was wrong; that Oberlin did not handle the situation well but did not do anything actionable. I am not an attorney so I can’t judge.

    The dean of students stood outside the bakery handing out libelous fliers. The college retaliated as well by cancelling concessions with the bakery. And the internal communications between the dean of students and other parties made plain she and her staff manipulate these NPCs.

    Any other school would have settled out of court with the Gibsons. Oberlin was indifferent to their economic losses and insisted that the Gibson’s not call the police when students were caught shoplifting, because, you know, the Marquis de Saint-Evremonde shall take from the peasants whenever he pleases. And if you fancy Mr. Gibson is lying about that, in one of their own motions they contend the bakery was at fault for maintaining an ‘archaic’ ‘catch and detain’ policy.

  275. @Realist

    My ZIP Code starts with a 5. That’s as much information as you’ll get from me.

     

    What does your zip code have to do with the college you attended? You are evading the question.

    I’m not “evading” it. I’m choosing not to answer it.

  276. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    It’s not supposed to be the jury’s job to “send a message”
     
    Wha? Of course it is. One major function of our justice system is punishment and deterrence. Including in civil cases.

    Using the civil justice system as a hammer to “send messages” to people you don’t like is not much better than Oberlin sending a mob of students to do the same.
     
    You seem to have confused the perpetrators and instigators with the injured party. If someone punches you unprovoked and you hit that person back, it’s not relevant for a third party to inanely observe that “punching back is not much better than punching first for no reason.”

    Ironically, one of your favorite concepts is “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.” How does that not apply in this case?

    You might like the message that the jury sent today but tomorrow in El Bronx or Berkeley a different jury might send a message that you like a lot less.
     
    To the contrary, I want the vibrant and/or the terminal left to show their true selves as much as possible. The OJ murder verdict is a great example.

    Good job! You’ve definitely got a few more functioning brain cells that I have.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Thank you, ThreeCranes. Your reply to my “witches” comment wasn’t too shabby, either.
  277. @Alden
    I was looking for alumni reaction to the case. Among many progressive things, Oberlin brags about being a stop on the Underground railway.

    Has anyone seen anything about Oberlin alumni reaction to the case? A liberal friend claims alumni will stop donating because of the case. I think Oberlin alumni are lunatic liberals just like the staff and students. She didn’t believe that the 3 blacks beat the clerk. I had to send her endless reports from Legal Insurrection before she believed me.

    Another small Ohio college, Antioch, went down the same path and finally, due to donations from alumni drying up, spiraled down the drain.* This will be Oberlin’s fate if they don’t wise up.

    *Presently, Antioch College is clawing its way back from the brink of insolvency and towards respectability.

  278. @Alden
    I was looking for alumni reaction to the case. Among many progressive things, Oberlin brags about being a stop on the Underground railway.

    Has anyone seen anything about Oberlin alumni reaction to the case? A liberal friend claims alumni will stop donating because of the case. I think Oberlin alumni are lunatic liberals just like the staff and students. She didn’t believe that the 3 blacks beat the clerk. I had to send her endless reports from Legal Insurrection before she believed me.

    What will kill Oberlin are rich liberal parents. Their children may have been raised to sneer at common bakery owners but not to sneer at money. They want their children to have jobs. I for one would be extremely “careful” before hiring an Oberlin grad in my department. Parents will understand that sending their child to Oberlin will not help their career chances and it’s parents that pay the large Oberlin bills. The Dean of Students, the President and the GC were playing at those roles, insulated from any reality. This is reality.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Parents will understand that sending their child to Oberlin will not help their career chances
     
    Why won't it?
  279. @Dan Hayes
    Desiderius:

    Any search for better sources starts (and essentially ends) with "Legal Insurrection".

    Thanks for the pointer.

    Some of the arguments I have seen say that what was said about the bakery was reprehensible, but opinions, which are protected speech.

    One source I found shows a flier that claims the bakery has a long history of racial discrimination. That is NOT an opinion. That is a statement which is either true or false. If false, it is libelous. Apparently that is what the jury thought.

    A similar situation: once a restaurant reviewer was sued for claiming a restaurant owner didn’t know how to make noodles. Saying the noodles tasted bad would be a protected opinion. Saying the owner didn’t know how to make noodles was a statement either true or false. The owner went to court and made noodles in court. The owner won a libel suit.

  280. @Realist

    ...Edison never darkened the door of a high school, let alone a college
     
    .

    That was obvious he had no concept of science let alone material science. His discoveries were the result of tinkering and hiring people people with high IQ's and stealing their ideas and discoveries.
    In a word he was an asshole. And a very overrated asshole at that.

    Einstein said that Edison would’ve been a much greater inventor had Edison actually understood science.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Einstein (and you) would say that. You've all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.

    As far as STEM goes, if your kid is passionate about being the next PhysicistDave or loves playing with Snap Circuit sets all the time, or can't get enough of fortification design through the ages, or is bound and determined to prove that damned Reimann hypothesis once and for all, by all means sign him right up. If you think it's a ticket to the good life for a kid who is better suited for something else or doesn't know what he wants to do yet, then you're the fish.

    It's also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.
    , @Realist

    Einstein said that Edison would’ve been a much greater inventor had Edison actually understood science.
     
    Einstein was too kind....Edison was a hack.
  281. @Paleo Liberal
    Einstein said that Edison would’ve been a much greater inventor had Edison actually understood science.

    Einstein (and you) would say that. You’ve all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.

    As far as STEM goes, if your kid is passionate about being the next PhysicistDave or loves playing with Snap Circuit sets all the time, or can’t get enough of fortification design through the ages, or is bound and determined to prove that damned Reimann hypothesis once and for all, by all means sign him right up. If you think it’s a ticket to the good life for a kid who is better suited for something else or doesn’t know what he wants to do yet, then you’re the fish.

    It’s also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.

    • Replies: @Realist

    You’ve all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.
     
    Yeah, art will solve the worlds problems.
    , @Ibound1
    I was a Liberal Arts major 30 years ago. Today, allowing your child to be a liberal arts major should be considered a form of abuse. It is nothing but SJW hysteria all the way down. I told my son if he wanted me to pay for college, then he had to be a hard science major. His liberal arts classes (mandated in order for him to graduate) have lived down to every horrible expectation. He had one class (he dropped it) where he was required to "tweet" Left agit-prop points. You cannot imagine how bad the '"liberal arts" have become. Even a Shakespeare class is unbearable now.
    , @res
    Most of that comment seems sensible to me, but this

    It’s also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.
     
    does not make sense to me (assuming the kid has some STEM inclination as well as those leadership qualities). I think a STEM program along with a good helping of economics and general liberal arts could be a good background for someone like that.

    Can you elaborate on your reasoning?

    P.S. Also see the first part of Paleo Liberal's comment 291.
  282. @Desiderius
    Einstein (and you) would say that. You've all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.

    As far as STEM goes, if your kid is passionate about being the next PhysicistDave or loves playing with Snap Circuit sets all the time, or can't get enough of fortification design through the ages, or is bound and determined to prove that damned Reimann hypothesis once and for all, by all means sign him right up. If you think it's a ticket to the good life for a kid who is better suited for something else or doesn't know what he wants to do yet, then you're the fish.

    It's also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.

    You’ve all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.

    Yeah, art will solve the worlds problems.

    • LOL: Paleo Liberal
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.

    And yes, there have been a number of leaders, esp. in Europe, who have been scientists.

    As for Einstein having his head in the clouds -- it is true he would often get lost in thought and forget his surroundings. However, he did try his hand at inventing. He and Szilard patented some refrigerator designs, and made a bit of money off it. That is why Einstein had the chops to be so critical of Edison. Einstein did some inventing, and found he could do it a lot better than Edison.

    As for people like Einstein and myself not having been grounded in the arts, that is simply not true.
    Einstein was an amateur musician. My grandfather knew Einstein for a little while, and saw Einstein perform on the violin as part of a chamber music group.
    That is not uncommon for scientists. Feinman was an artists and a musician as well as a scientist. A guy I shared an apartment with in grad school was a very good scientist partly because of his artistic abilities. He could visualize proteins in his head as part of his artistic training.

    Personally, I used to play two instruments. I got my bachelor's degree in a small prestigious liberal arts college, because I believed that Plato and Shakespeare were an important part of the education a well rounded scientist should have.
    , @Desiderius
    You’re really too short for this ride.

    Art as in Arts and Sciences, or Mechanical Arts, artifice, etc...

    Science : Art :: Theory : Practice :: Abstract : Concrete :: Ideal : Real
  283. @Paleo Liberal
    Einstein said that Edison would’ve been a much greater inventor had Edison actually understood science.

    Einstein said that Edison would’ve been a much greater inventor had Edison actually understood science.

    Einstein was too kind….Edison was a hack.

  284. Anonymous[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibound1
    What will kill Oberlin are rich liberal parents. Their children may have been raised to sneer at common bakery owners but not to sneer at money. They want their children to have jobs. I for one would be extremely “careful” before hiring an Oberlin grad in my department. Parents will understand that sending their child to Oberlin will not help their career chances and it’s parents that pay the large Oberlin bills. The Dean of Students, the President and the GC were playing at those roles, insulated from any reality. This is reality.

    Parents will understand that sending their child to Oberlin will not help their career chances

    Why won’t it?

    • Replies: @Ibound1
    Because I think employers will think twice before hiring from what seems to be nothing but an SJW mob.
  285. @Desiderius
    Einstein (and you) would say that. You've all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.

    As far as STEM goes, if your kid is passionate about being the next PhysicistDave or loves playing with Snap Circuit sets all the time, or can't get enough of fortification design through the ages, or is bound and determined to prove that damned Reimann hypothesis once and for all, by all means sign him right up. If you think it's a ticket to the good life for a kid who is better suited for something else or doesn't know what he wants to do yet, then you're the fish.

    It's also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.

    I was a Liberal Arts major 30 years ago. Today, allowing your child to be a liberal arts major should be considered a form of abuse. It is nothing but SJW hysteria all the way down. I told my son if he wanted me to pay for college, then he had to be a hard science major. His liberal arts classes (mandated in order for him to graduate) have lived down to every horrible expectation. He had one class (he dropped it) where he was required to “tweet” Left agit-prop points. You cannot imagine how bad the ‘”liberal arts” have become. Even a Shakespeare class is unbearable now.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    This is exactly what I’m talking about. The alternative to SJW infested liberal arts isn’t STEM (it’s yesterday’s STEM majors hiring those SJWs!), it’s finding a school where the liberal arts are properly taught and learned.

    That this is so difficult is testament to the colossal neglect on the part of conservatives (sic) who have conserved nothing but their stock portfolio.
  286. @Realist

    You’ve all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.
     
    Yeah, art will solve the worlds problems.

    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.

    And yes, there have been a number of leaders, esp. in Europe, who have been scientists.

    As for Einstein having his head in the clouds — it is true he would often get lost in thought and forget his surroundings. However, he did try his hand at inventing. He and Szilard patented some refrigerator designs, and made a bit of money off it. That is why Einstein had the chops to be so critical of Edison. Einstein did some inventing, and found he could do it a lot better than Edison.

    As for people like Einstein and myself not having been grounded in the arts, that is simply not true.
    Einstein was an amateur musician. My grandfather knew Einstein for a little while, and saw Einstein perform on the violin as part of a chamber music group.
    That is not uncommon for scientists. Feinman was an artists and a musician as well as a scientist. A guy I shared an apartment with in grad school was a very good scientist partly because of his artistic abilities. He could visualize proteins in his head as part of his artistic training.

    Personally, I used to play two instruments. I got my bachelor’s degree in a small prestigious liberal arts college, because I believed that Plato and Shakespeare were an important part of the education a well rounded scientist should have.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I was referring to more of the practical arts, but certainly the fine and literary are never wasted. Of course scientists can be leaders, the question is how effective they’ll be if their education has been hyper specialized as it is in the states.

    An underappreciated aspect of Einstein’s early genius was in experimental design (certainly an art) but as he got lost in theorizing (and later celebrity) the value of his scientific contributions waned precipitously.
    , @Anonymous

    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.
     
    STEM people seem to suffer a kind of rigidity and myopia to their thought. PhysicsDave would be an example of this.

    Musical aptitude can be quite rigid. Same with visual arts. Both of very different from the critical thinking, imagination, and verbal acumen that characterize the liberal arts.
    , @Realist
    I agree. At university everyone was required to take a certain number of credits in core study groups. My main inerest was chemistry, physics, math and astronomy. So I thought this would be a waste of my time, but I picked out courses from the groups that I thought would be interesting cutural anthropology, philosophy, residential architecture and the like. And much to my suprise I enjoyed them very much.

    Edison was a greedy, immoral, bastard who stole other's intellectual work and.....who publicly electocuted an elephant.
  287. @Realist

    You’ve all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.
     
    Yeah, art will solve the worlds problems.

    You’re really too short for this ride.

    Art as in Arts and Sciences, or Mechanical Arts, artifice, etc…

    Science : Art :: Theory : Practice :: Abstract : Concrete :: Ideal : Real

    • Replies: @Realist

    You’re really too short for this ride.
     
    And you're too stupid.
  288. @Paleo Liberal
    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.

    And yes, there have been a number of leaders, esp. in Europe, who have been scientists.

    As for Einstein having his head in the clouds -- it is true he would often get lost in thought and forget his surroundings. However, he did try his hand at inventing. He and Szilard patented some refrigerator designs, and made a bit of money off it. That is why Einstein had the chops to be so critical of Edison. Einstein did some inventing, and found he could do it a lot better than Edison.

    As for people like Einstein and myself not having been grounded in the arts, that is simply not true.
    Einstein was an amateur musician. My grandfather knew Einstein for a little while, and saw Einstein perform on the violin as part of a chamber music group.
    That is not uncommon for scientists. Feinman was an artists and a musician as well as a scientist. A guy I shared an apartment with in grad school was a very good scientist partly because of his artistic abilities. He could visualize proteins in his head as part of his artistic training.

    Personally, I used to play two instruments. I got my bachelor's degree in a small prestigious liberal arts college, because I believed that Plato and Shakespeare were an important part of the education a well rounded scientist should have.

    I was referring to more of the practical arts, but certainly the fine and literary are never wasted. Of course scientists can be leaders, the question is how effective they’ll be if their education has been hyper specialized as it is in the states.

    An underappreciated aspect of Einstein’s early genius was in experimental design (certainly an art) but as he got lost in theorizing (and later celebrity) the value of his scientific contributions waned precipitously.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Of course even late Einstein (and yourself) are a far cry better than this disastrous ruling class and STEM is better than studying Busyness or SJW bullshit.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    There is a big reason why scientists don’t get into politics in the US.

    A friend of mine did a post-doc for a scientist at Harvard. This scientist lost his “big name” status by getting too involved with politics.

    Another case was the great Linus Pauling. The federal government basically sabatouged his DNA research, which allows Watson and Crick to discover the structure of DNA first. His politics were not popular. He was also pretty much driven out of Cal Tech after gettin the Nobel Peace Prize. He already had a Nobel for the structure of proteins.

    Lawyers can make connections when running for office that helps their careers. Scientists can’t.

    I used to know a physics professor who played a big role in setting up the Arkansas ACLU, but it didn’t help his physics career at all.

    In effect, there are two types of scientists who CAN get involved in politics. — tenured professors who are on the down side of their research careers, or lesser scientists who never have and never will make it big. That, sad to say, is how things are in the USA.
  289. @Desiderius
    I was referring to more of the practical arts, but certainly the fine and literary are never wasted. Of course scientists can be leaders, the question is how effective they’ll be if their education has been hyper specialized as it is in the states.

    An underappreciated aspect of Einstein’s early genius was in experimental design (certainly an art) but as he got lost in theorizing (and later celebrity) the value of his scientific contributions waned precipitously.

    Of course even late Einstein (and yourself) are a far cry better than this disastrous ruling class and STEM is better than studying Busyness or SJW bullshit.

  290. @Desiderius
    I was referring to more of the practical arts, but certainly the fine and literary are never wasted. Of course scientists can be leaders, the question is how effective they’ll be if their education has been hyper specialized as it is in the states.

    An underappreciated aspect of Einstein’s early genius was in experimental design (certainly an art) but as he got lost in theorizing (and later celebrity) the value of his scientific contributions waned precipitously.

    There is a big reason why scientists don’t get into politics in the US.

    A friend of mine did a post-doc for a scientist at Harvard. This scientist lost his “big name” status by getting too involved with politics.

    Another case was the great Linus Pauling. The federal government basically sabatouged his DNA research, which allows Watson and Crick to discover the structure of DNA first. His politics were not popular. He was also pretty much driven out of Cal Tech after gettin the Nobel Peace Prize. He already had a Nobel for the structure of proteins.

    Lawyers can make connections when running for office that helps their careers. Scientists can’t.

    I used to know a physics professor who played a big role in setting up the Arkansas ACLU, but it didn’t help his physics career at all.

    In effect, there are two types of scientists who CAN get involved in politics. — tenured professors who are on the down side of their research careers, or lesser scientists who never have and never will make it big. That, sad to say, is how things are in the USA.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    One can be a great scientist or a great leader, not both. See Hamlet. Philosopher Kings aren’t really a thing. The skill sets are too disjoint.

    See also:

    http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html
    , @res

    Another case was the great Linus Pauling. The federal government basically sabatouged his DNA research, which allows Watson and Crick to discover the structure of DNA first. His politics were not popular. He was also pretty much driven out of Cal Tech after gettin the Nobel Peace Prize. He already had a Nobel for the structure of proteins.
     
    Pauling's problems make an interesting example. Here is some background on the DNA research issue:
    http://scarc.library.oregonstate.edu/coll/pauling/dna/narrative/page12.html
    And the Caltech troubles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling#Political_criticism
  291. res says:
    @Desiderius
    Einstein (and you) would say that. You've all got your heads lost in the clouds most of the time due to too much science and not enough art.

    As far as STEM goes, if your kid is passionate about being the next PhysicistDave or loves playing with Snap Circuit sets all the time, or can't get enough of fortification design through the ages, or is bound and determined to prove that damned Reimann hypothesis once and for all, by all means sign him right up. If you think it's a ticket to the good life for a kid who is better suited for something else or doesn't know what he wants to do yet, then you're the fish.

    It's also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.

    Most of that comment seems sensible to me, but this

    It’s also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.

    does not make sense to me (assuming the kid has some STEM inclination as well as those leadership qualities). I think a STEM program along with a good helping of economics and general liberal arts could be a good background for someone like that.

    Can you elaborate on your reasoning?

    P.S. Also see the first part of Paleo Liberal’s comment 291.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    If he’s cool topping out at VP of technical sales, sure, go for it. That will support a nice family.
  292. @Paleo Liberal
    There is a big reason why scientists don’t get into politics in the US.

    A friend of mine did a post-doc for a scientist at Harvard. This scientist lost his “big name” status by getting too involved with politics.

    Another case was the great Linus Pauling. The federal government basically sabatouged his DNA research, which allows Watson and Crick to discover the structure of DNA first. His politics were not popular. He was also pretty much driven out of Cal Tech after gettin the Nobel Peace Prize. He already had a Nobel for the structure of proteins.

    Lawyers can make connections when running for office that helps their careers. Scientists can’t.

    I used to know a physics professor who played a big role in setting up the Arkansas ACLU, but it didn’t help his physics career at all.

    In effect, there are two types of scientists who CAN get involved in politics. — tenured professors who are on the down side of their research careers, or lesser scientists who never have and never will make it big. That, sad to say, is how things are in the USA.

    One can be a great scientist or a great leader, not both. See Hamlet. Philosopher Kings aren’t really a thing. The skill sets are too disjoint.

    See also:

    http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

  293. res says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There is a big reason why scientists don’t get into politics in the US.

    A friend of mine did a post-doc for a scientist at Harvard. This scientist lost his “big name” status by getting too involved with politics.

    Another case was the great Linus Pauling. The federal government basically sabatouged his DNA research, which allows Watson and Crick to discover the structure of DNA first. His politics were not popular. He was also pretty much driven out of Cal Tech after gettin the Nobel Peace Prize. He already had a Nobel for the structure of proteins.

    Lawyers can make connections when running for office that helps their careers. Scientists can’t.

    I used to know a physics professor who played a big role in setting up the Arkansas ACLU, but it didn’t help his physics career at all.

    In effect, there are two types of scientists who CAN get involved in politics. — tenured professors who are on the down side of their research careers, or lesser scientists who never have and never will make it big. That, sad to say, is how things are in the USA.

    Another case was the great Linus Pauling. The federal government basically sabatouged his DNA research, which allows Watson and Crick to discover the structure of DNA first. His politics were not popular. He was also pretty much driven out of Cal Tech after gettin the Nobel Peace Prize. He already had a Nobel for the structure of proteins.

    Pauling’s problems make an interesting example. Here is some background on the DNA research issue:
    http://scarc.library.oregonstate.edu/coll/pauling/dna/narrative/page12.html
    And the Caltech troubles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling#Political_criticism

  294. @res
    Most of that comment seems sensible to me, but this

    It’s also usually a lousy fit for a kid with demonstrated leadership qualities.
     
    does not make sense to me (assuming the kid has some STEM inclination as well as those leadership qualities). I think a STEM program along with a good helping of economics and general liberal arts could be a good background for someone like that.

    Can you elaborate on your reasoning?

    P.S. Also see the first part of Paleo Liberal's comment 291.

    If he’s cool topping out at VP of technical sales, sure, go for it. That will support a nice family.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    I’ve worked in several companies where the CEO was a PhD scientist.

    One of the guys who had the same research advisor as my research advisor later became the head of a major chemical company.

    In the old days it was considered an insult for a PhD to have a boss who was NOT a PhD. When I worked in companies that dealt with science, every boss I ever had was a PhD scientist, and the head of every company was a PhD scientist.
  295. @Ibound1
    I was a Liberal Arts major 30 years ago. Today, allowing your child to be a liberal arts major should be considered a form of abuse. It is nothing but SJW hysteria all the way down. I told my son if he wanted me to pay for college, then he had to be a hard science major. His liberal arts classes (mandated in order for him to graduate) have lived down to every horrible expectation. He had one class (he dropped it) where he was required to "tweet" Left agit-prop points. You cannot imagine how bad the '"liberal arts" have become. Even a Shakespeare class is unbearable now.

    This is exactly what I’m talking about. The alternative to SJW infested liberal arts isn’t STEM (it’s yesterday’s STEM majors hiring those SJWs!), it’s finding a school where the liberal arts are properly taught and learned.

    That this is so difficult is testament to the colossal neglect on the part of conservatives (sic) who have conserved nothing but their stock portfolio.

  296. @Desiderius
    If he’s cool topping out at VP of technical sales, sure, go for it. That will support a nice family.

    I’ve worked in several companies where the CEO was a PhD scientist.

    One of the guys who had the same research advisor as my research advisor later became the head of a major chemical company.

    In the old days it was considered an insult for a PhD to have a boss who was NOT a PhD. When I worked in companies that dealt with science, every boss I ever had was a PhD scientist, and the head of every company was a PhD scientist.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    We have no shortage of CEOs. I once shared a beer with Jack Welch (ChE) at one of the confabs GE holds for new hires. At the time I was a big fan. Not so sure now we need more Neutron Jacks (so named because neutron bombs theoretically kill all the people while leaving all the capital assets intact) if you take my meaning.

    I’m talking statesmen, theologians, historians, and warriors when need be. Western Civ is not a civilization of mere shopkeepers even if we do let the occasional haberdasher or real estate fixer take the wheel now and again.

  297. @Paleo Liberal
    I’ve worked in several companies where the CEO was a PhD scientist.

    One of the guys who had the same research advisor as my research advisor later became the head of a major chemical company.

    In the old days it was considered an insult for a PhD to have a boss who was NOT a PhD. When I worked in companies that dealt with science, every boss I ever had was a PhD scientist, and the head of every company was a PhD scientist.

    We have no shortage of CEOs. I once shared a beer with Jack Welch (ChE) at one of the confabs GE holds for new hires. At the time I was a big fan. Not so sure now we need more Neutron Jacks (so named because neutron bombs theoretically kill all the people while leaving all the capital assets intact) if you take my meaning.

    I’m talking statesmen, theologians, historians, and warriors when need be. Western Civ is not a civilization of mere shopkeepers even if we do let the occasional haberdasher or real estate fixer take the wheel now and again.

  298. @Anonymous

    Parents will understand that sending their child to Oberlin will not help their career chances
     
    Why won't it?

    Because I think employers will think twice before hiring from what seems to be nothing but an SJW mob.

  299. @Jack D
    This was not driven by their lawyers. I'll bet the lawyers counseled them to settle in some fashion, if not the total abdication that you propose. If on day one, they had called up the other side and said, "here's half a million and we sign a confidential settlement agreement tomorrow before we've all spent a lot on legal fees," the other side would have taken it.


    But the Oberlin administration wouldn't hear of it - they had RACIAL JUSTICE on their side and were full of righteous anger. No way were they going to give any money to those racist white crackers. It's not the administrator's own money anyway, so it's no problem to piss the endowment away rather than causing the admins to lose face.

    I made this point, and your one above, to the bbq posse just the other night.

    Remember that the three thieves did this hit on the bakery the day after the presidential election of 2016.

    There was a lot of acting up in and around lefty college campuses that day. Down at The Evergreen State College, e.g., a noted faculty genius (since resigned) participating in a freak-out in the campus main quad opined on Facebook that white people owed her reparations in the form of burning down police stations or giving her money.

    There was scuttlebutt of retributional thievery/property destruction, but the locals had the good sense to keep its management local.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Coming soon to an HR department or government job near you.
  300. @Olorin
    I made this point, and your one above, to the bbq posse just the other night.

    Remember that the three thieves did this hit on the bakery the day after the presidential election of 2016.

    There was a lot of acting up in and around lefty college campuses that day. Down at The Evergreen State College, e.g., a noted faculty genius (since resigned) participating in a freak-out in the campus main quad opined on Facebook that white people owed her reparations in the form of burning down police stations or giving her money.

    There was scuttlebutt of retributional thievery/property destruction, but the locals had the good sense to keep its management local.

    http://i.imgur.com/FFXXaBo.png

    Coming soon to an HR department or government job near you.

  301. @ThreeCranes
    Good job! You've definitely got a few more functioning brain cells that I have.

    Thank you, ThreeCranes. Your reply to my “witches” comment wasn’t too shabby, either.

  302. Anonymous[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.

    And yes, there have been a number of leaders, esp. in Europe, who have been scientists.

    As for Einstein having his head in the clouds -- it is true he would often get lost in thought and forget his surroundings. However, he did try his hand at inventing. He and Szilard patented some refrigerator designs, and made a bit of money off it. That is why Einstein had the chops to be so critical of Edison. Einstein did some inventing, and found he could do it a lot better than Edison.

    As for people like Einstein and myself not having been grounded in the arts, that is simply not true.
    Einstein was an amateur musician. My grandfather knew Einstein for a little while, and saw Einstein perform on the violin as part of a chamber music group.
    That is not uncommon for scientists. Feinman was an artists and a musician as well as a scientist. A guy I shared an apartment with in grad school was a very good scientist partly because of his artistic abilities. He could visualize proteins in his head as part of his artistic training.

    Personally, I used to play two instruments. I got my bachelor's degree in a small prestigious liberal arts college, because I believed that Plato and Shakespeare were an important part of the education a well rounded scientist should have.

    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.

    STEM people seem to suffer a kind of rigidity and myopia to their thought. PhysicsDave would be an example of this.

    Musical aptitude can be quite rigid. Same with visual arts. Both of very different from the critical thinking, imagination, and verbal acumen that characterize the liberal arts.

    • Replies: @Realist

    Both of very different from the critical thinking, imagination,...
     
    You're kidding right??? Science doesn't take critical thinking and imagagination???
  303. @Paleo Liberal
    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.

    And yes, there have been a number of leaders, esp. in Europe, who have been scientists.

    As for Einstein having his head in the clouds -- it is true he would often get lost in thought and forget his surroundings. However, he did try his hand at inventing. He and Szilard patented some refrigerator designs, and made a bit of money off it. That is why Einstein had the chops to be so critical of Edison. Einstein did some inventing, and found he could do it a lot better than Edison.

    As for people like Einstein and myself not having been grounded in the arts, that is simply not true.
    Einstein was an amateur musician. My grandfather knew Einstein for a little while, and saw Einstein perform on the violin as part of a chamber music group.
    That is not uncommon for scientists. Feinman was an artists and a musician as well as a scientist. A guy I shared an apartment with in grad school was a very good scientist partly because of his artistic abilities. He could visualize proteins in his head as part of his artistic training.

    Personally, I used to play two instruments. I got my bachelor's degree in a small prestigious liberal arts college, because I believed that Plato and Shakespeare were an important part of the education a well rounded scientist should have.

    I agree. At university everyone was required to take a certain number of credits in core study groups. My main inerest was chemistry, physics, math and astronomy. So I thought this would be a waste of my time, but I picked out courses from the groups that I thought would be interesting cutural anthropology, philosophy, residential architecture and the like. And much to my suprise I enjoyed them very much.

    Edison was a greedy, immoral, bastard who stole other’s intellectual work and…..who publicly electocuted an elephant.

  304. @Desiderius
    You’re really too short for this ride.

    Art as in Arts and Sciences, or Mechanical Arts, artifice, etc...

    Science : Art :: Theory : Practice :: Abstract : Concrete :: Ideal : Real

    You’re really too short for this ride.

    And you’re too stupid.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That's a hypothesis unlikely to yield a particularly robust p-value.
  305. @Anonymous

    What people forget is that the STEM fields teach:

    1. Analytical thinking
    2. Creative problem solving.

    as well as

    3. The science and technology required to handle technical situations.
     
    STEM people seem to suffer a kind of rigidity and myopia to their thought. PhysicsDave would be an example of this.

    Musical aptitude can be quite rigid. Same with visual arts. Both of very different from the critical thinking, imagination, and verbal acumen that characterize the liberal arts.

    Both of very different from the critical thinking, imagination,…

    You’re kidding right??? Science doesn’t take critical thinking and imagagination???

  306. @Realist

    You’re really too short for this ride.
     
    And you're too stupid.

    That’s a hypothesis unlikely to yield a particularly robust p-value.

    • Replies: @Realist

    That’s a hypothesis unlikely to yield a particularly robust p-value.
     
    It's not a hypothesis....you've proven it here many times.
  307. @Desiderius
    That's a hypothesis unlikely to yield a particularly robust p-value.

    That’s a hypothesis unlikely to yield a particularly robust p-value.

    It’s not a hypothesis….you’ve proven it here many times.

  308. Has no one pointed out that Meredith Raimondo is an obvious tranny?

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