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Anna Merlan is back at it in Jezebel:
But if we’re almost done picking apart Jackie’s story and her character — and surely we’ve nearly reached the end of that, after this piece — perhaps it’s time now to consider the second half of Erdely’s story. That’s the part where Jackie and other UVA students say they reported being raped to administrators and were presented with several options for “formal” and “informal” hearings into their allegations. As associate Dean of Students Nicole Eramo said in an interview, the informal hearings virtually never led to expulsion, even when the accused student admitted to rape or sexual assault.
Until very recently, the Social Media Justice Warriors were demanding Dean Eramo’s head for listening patiently to Jackie instead of rousing a lynch mob to string up the entire fraternity. Check out the fulminating comments at the college newspaper to Jackie’s letter of defense of Dean Eramo.
There’s a reason UVA is still addressing issues of how they handle sexual assault allegations on campus, and it’s not because it and other college campuses are, in the words of one blogger, “infected by the horribly destructive disease of political correctness.” It’s because there’s a problem here, even if Jackie proves to be the wrong person to represent it. (This story also viscerally shows the difficulties and dangers of magazine features, where one character stands in for a broader issue.) UVA is still one of dozens of schools being investigated by the U.S. Department of Education for alleged mishandling of sexual assault complaints.
Like the way Dean Eramo mishandled Jackie’s complaint by not treating the fraternity house the way the Ferguson mob treated the convenience store.
There’s a reason why criminal matters should be investigated by the police (not that the police always do such a hot job of it either).
But there was no criminal matter here. Dean Eramo offered Jackie three paths to choose among:
– going to the cops
– having a hearing by a formal university board with lower standards than guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
– or having an informal board which mostly consists of the accuser getting to tell off the accused (assuming, unlike in this case, that the accused actually exists) in front of some administration authority figures about how he hurt her feelings by, say, brutally raping her on broken glass and then not calling her again.
Not surprisingly, Jackie dithered, not choosing any of the three options.
A catastrophic series of failures on the part of both UVA and Rolling Stone led to this mess, which should never have had a chance to end up being adjudicated in the media.
At Richard Bradley’s blog, commenter Honest Broker responds
As someone who has sat in administrative hearings on sexual “misconduct”, I can say Anna has no f#$%^ign clue of what she speaks.
Real rape goes to police. Colleges are stuck dealing with relationship disputes that go bad. Sometimes very, very bad.
This is not to dispute that rape doesn’t happen. But it is a continuum that absolutists don’t want to deal with.
Example: man has sex with woman. She says he agreed not to ejaculate in her. He fails to comply. Is this is a sexual assault? Should the man be expelled, suspended, counseled by a rape specialist or counseled by sex specialist about PME?
The real life stories that colleges are now forced to intervene in are more of the example I gave above and less of the blond, fit, frat sadist rapists of Rolling Stones imagination… As a society we have not found a way to communicate what occurs in the latter unfortunately…
Most of our laws and moral ideas about “rape” stem from an era before pornography enlightened young people about the wide range of alternatives they have in sex acts. My vague hunch is that before pornography became omnipresent, young people in general didn’t have all that much imagination about various types of sex acts, so there was less opportunity for post-hoc disagreements about what precisely had been agreed upon.
Recently, I was watching for the first time the musical Grease about 1950s teens, with its talented cast of thirtysomething high school students. In the Mulholland Drive makeout scene, Stockard Channing (age 34) plays the school’s Fast Girl (presumably Channing is fast because she can hear her biological clock ticking).
My impression from the movie is that the Fast Girl is portrayed as considering a hierarchy of activities to do with her new boyfriend in the back seat of his new car that are limited to A) kissing; B) “heavy petting;” C) vaginal sex with a condom; D) vaginal sex without a condom.
When the lad’s condom disintegrates as he removes it from his wallet for the first time since he placed it there in 7th grade, she says “Aw, what the hell” and decides to take her chances with pregnancy. Potential non-impregnating sex acts known to, say, 18th Century French aristocrats aren’t on the (presumably) young couple’s mental map.
Now, today’s porn-driven awareness of alternatives sounds like a good thing, right, because then young people can calmly negotiate over exactly what they will engage in. Perhaps they could hire agents to negotiate the fine points and draw up a contract spelling everything out in excruciating detail in the manner of, say, a movie industry contract stipulating just how nude Jennifer Lawrence will be in a movie nude scene.
But more likely in the heat of the moment stuff happens, often more complicated stuff than pre-porn, and the parties may not fully agree on whether what happened was what each had in mind, especially if he doesn’t send flowers the next day. This provides much in the way of hurt feelings for University administrators to patiently listen to.
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Re: pornography changing the rules.
No doubt. But I still blame “the pill.”
I also remain unpersuaded that “young people can calmly negotiate over exactly what they will engage in.”
Young sex is never particularly calm. That’s a middle-age thing.
Re: Anna Merlan is back at it.
Have you no decency, madam? Have you no shame?
Steve what is your opinion of Amy Pascal’s comments about Hussein Obama only liking to watch Black movies like “Django Unchained” “12 Years A Slave”, and every Kevin Hart movie ever made ?
Three-day waiting period to purchase a condom; large-capacity condoms banned (Don’t Choke Me, Bro!).
Anybody here see Bill Cosby on “South Park” ?
Heartless bastards…..why wasn’t there a fourth option where her accusers were locked up immediately followed by a triumphant appearance for Jackie the following morning on “The View”?
A little justice…..is that so much to ask?!
her attackers!
I'm a little verklempt...sorry.....talk amongst yourselves!
A little justice.....is that so much to ask?!Replies: @fish
…..her accusers….
her attackers!
I’m a little verklempt…sorry…..talk amongst yourselves!
If you’re ever wondering about why a dumb law or regulation is being undertaken, it’s always good practice to estimate how many billable hours it will generate.
I also remain unpersuaded that “young people can calmly negotiate over exactly what they will engage in.”
We live in deeply sarcastic times, unfortunately.
“the informal hearings virtually never led to expulsion, even when the accused student admitted to rape or sexual assault”
1) Hey, here’s a radical, doubtless deeply misogynist, idea – if you’ve been raped, instead of asking a campus bureaucrat to set up an informal hearing, why don’t you ask a cop to make an arrest?
2) This shows the uniquely white/upper class/bourgeois aspect of this story (and that has always existed in feminism), which is reflected in a mindset which believes that getting expelled from a prestigious college is so awful a fate that it’s right up there with decades of prison time as an acceptable punishment for rape. After all, if that happens, one might end up having to go to a low-tier state school, or maybe never even get a degree at all, and end up having to get a job in which one works with one’s hands. The horror!
I believe that Women’s Studies departments should be folded into the CIA. Then we could render fraternity presidents to black sites in Tajikistan, and, through enhanced interrogation and judicious use of rectal feeding, we could finally smoke out all the sleeper frat bros who are raping 25% of coeds every year without being reported. Opposition to this plan is misogyny and emboldens the rapists.
I think the main problem is that we do not have any baseline for sexual conduct anymore, there are no taboos either about the kinds of sexual practices, or the consequences of sexual practices: not when something like 50% of American children are now born out of wedlock.
There are also zero expectations about sexual activity: if a woman in love makes love to a young man, there is no guarantee that he won’t just dump her the next day, and no way to sanction him if he does. (And, of course, it goes the other way as well.)
I’m willing to accept whatever someone wants to tell me about sexual assault, however, most of the stories I hear (this doesn’t include the UVA story, of course) involve young women who get inebriated and then have sex. Very, very few of these stories involve violence, the threat of violence, drugging, or drinking to incapacitation. If someone wants to call them “sexual assault”, OK, fine, but while it may cross a college threshhold I doubt if it will cross a legal one.
The current “last ditch” attempt is to stake the matter on Affirmative Consent. But I can already tell you that it won’t work. Why? Because there are many many cases of couples getting drunk and actively and enthusiastically assenting to all sort of things: and then have no memory of it the next day. So how do you enforce those laws then? You don’t.
Remember when NJ arrested and convicted a dude whose only crime was video taping his gay roommate having gay sex, who subsequently jumped off a bridge? And how he only showed it to a few people, but his gay roommate freaked and committed suicide in shame?
Dude got expelled, convicted, and then deported.
Remember how Stephen Glass got barred and shunned not only from being a journalist, but from being a lawyer as well, all for inventing stories?
Yet Jackie and Erdley–who accused an entire group of men of an unspeakable crime, and led the nation on a wild goose chase of lies—will not face any criminal charges or punishment of the sort.
Female privilege.
Check out SRE's wikipedia. Several of her past Rolling Stone articles have been optioned as movies and are in preproduction.
Would not be surprised if SRE is several steps ahead of us, having calculated on ways to tell her side of the story on the big screen.Replies: @ben tillman
Interesting…seems there’s a link to the WH?
http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=3334
Steve, did you see the story about Lena Dunham being fake-raped by the campus conservative at Oberlin? This has the potential to be better than the RS bs.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2014/12/03/investigation-lena-dunhams-republican-rapist-story-falls-apart-under-scrutiny
If only there were administrative procedures in place at UVA! If the proper procedures, techniques, policies, protocols, counselling and education are in place then students can get up to any sort of sexual activity they want and there won’t be cases like Jackie’s in the future. Procedures, policies and protocols are needed to make universities and workplaces kid-proof but in a sexual way. Universities are supposed to be fun and safe places where adult kids can get drunk, have any sort of sex they can think of and be safe from running into any emotional or literal sharp edges. Procedures clearly were not in place at UVA to make this possible. People need to get on that.
A long time ago Samuel Johnson said “patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel” but I think today it’s procedure that’s the last refuge. We have the right to do whatever we want without consequences and procedures need to be put in place to make that happen.
Dude got expelled, convicted, and then deported.
Remember how Stephen Glass got barred and shunned not only from being a journalist, but from being a lawyer as well, all for inventing stories?
Yet Jackie and Erdley--who accused an entire group of men of an unspeakable crime, and led the nation on a wild goose chase of lies---will not face any criminal charges or punishment of the sort.
Female privilege.Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Art Deco, @Reg Cæsar
If you noticed my comments from the previous posts. SRE apparently has already figured out a post journalism career, breaking into Hollywood as a screenwriter.
Check out SRE’s wikipedia. Several of her past Rolling Stone articles have been optioned as movies and are in preproduction.
Would not be surprised if SRE is several steps ahead of us, having calculated on ways to tell her side of the story on the big screen.
<Yet Jackie and Erdley–who accused an entire group of men of an unspeakable crime, and led the nation on a wild goose chase of lies—will not face any criminal charges or punishment of the sort.
To say it once more- nothing is going to happen to this woman.
You think Merlan is bad, check out the comments to her post. It’s perhaps the most astonishing stuff you’ll ever read from people that appear to be on the right side of the bell curve, based on their ability to at least clearly express their thoughts. One of them comes straight out and writes that if you reply to her with “facts” she’ll ignore you, and that’s a pretty tame example. I wish that the same Russian oligarch that returned Watson’s Nobel Prize that he paid $4 million for (see, Russian oligarchs aren’t all that bad) would make a similar donation to Steve on the condition that he writes up responses to each and every one of the comments.
And if I may, a somewhat brief anecdote that perhaps sheds some light on the mindset of the people that are doubling down on what to any sane person is obviously a hoax. I was talking with a co-worker (a non-lawyer at a big international law firm) when the Duke case was being revealed as a hoax beyond simply being a fantastical tale on its face. I mentioned to this person that one of the accused could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was not in the house based on an ATM receipt (maybe there was even security camera footage) and a statement from a cab driver. She responded by telling me that the accused could easily have paid off the cab driver to give the statement, that the ATM receipt was forged, and could have paid someone to doctor the security camera footage. After all, the accused just oozes White Privilege ™.
Check out SRE's wikipedia. Several of her past Rolling Stone articles have been optioned as movies and are in preproduction.
Would not be surprised if SRE is several steps ahead of us, having calculated on ways to tell her side of the story on the big screen.Replies: @ben tillman
That’s a very special sort of privilege.
If either of the films currently being cast based on SRE's articles are remotely successful, you can be assured that SRE will be paid big money for her side of the UVA fabulism.
Steve, it looks like your site (unz.com/isteve) may have some kind of virus. My antivirus is blocking redirects from it to some infected site (thejimbolist.com).
Does that solve your problem?Replies: @jackson, @RickyVaughn
Anybody else having this problem?
I’m not having it.
I think you are over-estimating the education value of internet pornography and underestimating the state of sexual knowledge in the pre-internet age. A Hollywood musical where liberties are often taken with reality in order to advance the plot is perhaps not the best proof of the actual state of sexual knowledge in pre-internet America. You usually hit the nail on the head but you missed big on this one.
Allow me to offer this alternative explanation: There were fewer sexual encounters in those days to begin with – respectable young ladies did not have premarital sex except perhaps (or perhaps not) with their fiance (and if they became pregnant, whoever they were having sex with BECAME their fiance). Certainly not in college dorms which were well chaperoned. If sex did happen, what went on behind closed doors in a hotel room/ in the back seat of ’57 Chevies was highly private and never admitted to publicly, especially not by young ladies (men might brag to their buddies). If some sexual negotiation between a girl and her steady went wrong this was not something you would take public before some tribunal. If the offense was grievous enough, the couple would break up and that would be the end of it. Certainly (and to this day) the police would have nothing to do with it – if a woman put herself alone in a room with a man and without her knickers, then whatever happened after that was definitely not rape and was no more than she deserved for putting herself in that position. There were no campus tribunals to deal with such complaints. Any woman would even be ashamed to admit that she had done as much.
Let us take the case of the “mattress girl” at Columbia. According to her account (and she tell this without embarrassment to everyone who asks, indeed to all of America) she was having consensual vaginal relations with a casual acquaintance when he decided to use the back door (and she had not agreed to this part of the deal). Since she had not specifically consented to this act, Romeo went from welcome vaginal guest to rapist in her view, and she demanded from all that would hear that he be punished accordingly. Would ANYONE in 1950s America publicly admit this and seek legal or public redress for such a complaint? Was there ANY forum in America that would have heard such a dispute and not thrown the hussy out the door the moment she was so bold as to actually give the details thereof?
But in 2014 America, having drunk the “consent” Koolaid, she considers this to be a valid complaint and is shocked, shocked that neither the police, nor (surprisingly) the campus authorities consider to be anything more than a lover’s quarrel that is not judicable. Thus she carries the mattress that was the scene of the crime as the burden she must bear in order to receive redress (and earn her 15 minutes of fame and a book deal).
About the mattress girl: I don't know exactly what she's alleging. But if she consented to vaginal sex but he penetrated her anally over her expressed objections, that would clearly be a crime. Is that what she claims happened? Presumably not, or the university would not have so completely dismissed her accusations. So is she saying that she didn't object but he should have known anyway that she didn't really, truly, in her heart of hearts, want to do it? Or what?Replies: @snorlax, @Jack D
I was just thinking that universities should just cut the pretence, admit what campus life has become and hire people from the resort industry to advise them on this matter. Get people from Sandals Resorts, Club Med and the big hotels in Cancun to tell them how they do it. It could go something like this:
University of Virginia talent scout: “What’s your policy on rape?”
Club Med manager: “We’re against it.”
University of Virginia talent scout: “Good, good. More specifically…”
It seems like most universities are about higher education in the same way the TV show Dallas was about the oil industry.
Sheesh! No wonder there’s an “assistant dean for sexual misbehavior.”
I see a perfect character for a porn movie.
This is starting to remind me of how the Victorians were so uptight about sex that they ended up looking awfully perverse to us. Putting pants on furniture legs. That sort of thing. And men becoming so frigging frustrated that the mere sight of a woman’s ankle could drive them crazy.
The root of many perversions is frustration. Not that it’s all bad. There are wonderful plants that grow better if you prune them back and force them to deal with that.
I hope to God there’s a genius living among us who will someday make something wonderful out of all this insanity.
That said, your hope is in vain. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.
It does the same thing on three computers where I am. It’s Sophos antivirus and none of the other unz.com author pages I tried generate the warning. Just yours.
Club Med manager: "We're against it."
University of Virginia talent scout: "Good, good. More specifically..."It seems like most universities are about higher education in the same way the TV show Dallas was about the oil industry.Replies: @Steve Sailer
My wife’s cousin is in the university sports center development business. She typically spends about 5-7 years at a state flagship university as the head of building a new goldplated sports complex to attract students. She vacations in places like Abu Dhabi and Martinique and on cruise lines checking out the latest resort amenities, then gets together with architects to design a lavish resort on campus. After it’s built and running she moves on to the next state’s flagship campus to do it all over again, just more lavishly.
While we are on the subject of movies, can I get a soundtrack for the film version of the UVA Rape Hoax? I got two.
#1 – “Jackie Blue” Ozark Boys
#2 – “Just My Imagination” Temptations
#1 - "Jackie Blue" Ozark Boys
#2 - "Just My Imagination" TemptationsReplies: @Steve Sailer
Is Just My Imagination the best song ever?
Dude got expelled, convicted, and then deported.
Remember how Stephen Glass got barred and shunned not only from being a journalist, but from being a lawyer as well, all for inventing stories?
Yet Jackie and Erdley--who accused an entire group of men of an unspeakable crime, and led the nation on a wild goose chase of lies---will not face any criminal charges or punishment of the sort.
Female privilege.Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Art Deco, @Reg Cæsar
Remember when NJ arrested and convicted a dude whose only crime was video taping his gay roommate having gay sex, who subsequently jumped off a bridge? And how he only showed it to a few people, but his gay roommate freaked and committed suicide in shame?
He did not videotape him. There was a webcam from which the feed was accessible a computer in a neighboring dorm room. Some girls gathered there saw in two instances a few seconds of said roommate and his butt buddy necking with shirts off and immediately shut it off.
The homosexuality of the student in question was not a confidential matter. He’d insisted on telling his parents and some female high school friends and had joined a gay caucus at Rutgers. He’d just not discussed it with his roommate (who did not need to be told as he’d doxxed him before arriving on campus and discovered he’d used his actual e-mail address in his contributions to fora with titles like “Just Us Boys”). He had not broadcast it to the entire dorm. His roommate and others had also noticed he’d been bringing a seedy character to the dormitory (said butt-buddy, whom it later turned out was 31 years old).
What was going on in his head is a mystery. This chap had had some matter of fact correspondence with the dorm RA complaining about his roommate and asked to be switched to another room. The roommate had already been reprimanded. Before traveling to the GW bridge to hurl himself off it, he went down to the snack bar and bought a hamburger. The student had left behind a long hand text in a composition notebook that was never introduced at trial and which (at the time of the trial) the police had sequestered and not turned over to the family. If there are answers, it’s in there.
The prosecution of this youth (and one of the girls across the hall) was appalling, as was the conviction by the bourgeois twerps on the jury. The judge had to intervene at the end to contain the damage to the defendant of this travesty. The process was the punishment. I do not think he was deported.
‘Viscerally shows’? If her job description called for “excellent communication skills,” she’s fired.
Yeah I know. It must be that “White” privilege that Hollywood is so full of and that upsets Chris Rock so much.
If either of the films currently being cast based on SRE’s articles are remotely successful, you can be assured that SRE will be paid big money for her side of the UVA fabulism.
It is.
“While we are on the subject of movies, can I get a soundtrack for the film version of the UVA Rape Hoax? I got two.
#1 – “Jackie Blue” Ozark Boys
#2 – “Just My Imagination” Temptations”
Since it would be a Feminist film, it needs a Feminist soundtrack.
I Am Woman by Helen Reddy
JACKIE IS STRONG, JACKIE IS INVINCIBLE, JACKIE IS WOMAN.
I deleted the photo of Stockard Channing in “Grease” from thejimbolist.com
Does that solve your problem?
This land is mine but I’ll let you rule
I let you navigate and demand
Just as long as you know…this land is mine
So find your home and settle in
Ohhh, I’m ready to let you in
Just as long as we know…this land is mine
As usual, Dave Chappelle was ahead of the curve. Here’s his “Love Contract” bit:
Does that solve your problem?Replies: @jackson, @RickyVaughn
It did. No more warnings.
Fortunately, no one cares what Jezebel thinks. Or its bloggers think.
But, anything that keeps focusing attention on this is positive. The truth can only get worse. And the REAL problem at UVA can never detach itself from Jackie. And Erdly’s story.
I think we are not far away from publishing text messages and statements from her ‘friends’ … and that will be that. There was never any physical evidence. It is unimaginable that there will ever be any physical evidence of a gang rape.
How long can it take for the internet to dig into Jackie’s life story. And there is no set of facts that can help her. If she has serious mental problems, then why did people believe her without question. And if she is perfectly sane, how could she perpetrate such a hoax.
All in all, the argument that the facts don’t matter — which is all that is left for Jackie’s supporters — is hopeless outside of a small circle of woman. So, let Jezebel and whomever keep the argument alive as facts trickle in.
Not to mention, a non fiction book (thank god) — probably by one of the Washington Post reporters — will appear in the next 12 month or so. Along with a book tour. And a reevaluation of the hoax, with more detailed facts. And best case, more than one book with slightly different points of view. Something else to debate.
“Recently, I was watching for the first time the musical Grease about 1950s teens, with its talented cast of thirtysomething high school students. ”
What? For the FIRST TIME? So, when will Sailer finally see Star Wars?
I thought everyone’s seen GREASE and a whole bunch of times. I saw it 4 times when it came out in 1978.
PS. But then, I still haven’t seen Titanic, so…
Steve says his nostalgia sweet spot is post-war California, and he never saw Grease??? WTF, man?
I see a perfect character for a porn movie.
This is starting to remind me of how the Victorians were so uptight about sex that they ended up looking awfully perverse to us. Putting pants on furniture legs. That sort of thing. And men becoming so frigging frustrated that the mere sight of a woman's ankle could drive them crazy.
The root of many perversions is frustration. Not that it's all bad. There are wonderful plants that grow better if you prune them back and force them to deal with that.
I hope to God there's a genius living among us who will someday make something wonderful out of all this insanity.Replies: @whorefinder
That may be the single greatest line I’ve heard in months. Well done sir; I shall now steal it willy nilly and without attribution.
That said, your hope is in vain. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.
As associate Dean of Students Nicole Eramo said in an interview, the informal hearings virtually never led to expulsion, even when the accused student admitted to rape or sexual assault.
A lie gets half-way around the world while the truth is pulling on its boots. Needless to say the feminist hack is not being truthful Here is the relevant exchange.
Q: You’ve said that students have actually admitted guilt to you?
A: Yes.
Q: Why were those students not expelled?
A: Well honestly I feel like in the context of an informal resolution meeting there is really no advantage to admitting guilt, there is no need to admit guilt, they’re not actually in a hearing proceeding. And I feel like if a person is willing to come forward in that setting and admit that they violated the policy when there is absolutely no advantage to do so, that that does deserve some consideration.
Note that the question of what precisely the students admitted guilt for is not defined. In the minds of the rape activists … rapetivists? … it is just assumed that what was said was something like “I’m sorry I drugged that girl and then invited my friends around to gangbang her, after which we sodmized her with a beer-bottle”.
What they actually admitted and apologized for, according to Earmo, was “a violation of the policy”. While the above-mentioned drugged gangbang would be “a violation of the policy”, the same is true for a guy coming on to a girl in a fashion she does not approve of. The words “I want to do you” would be a violation of the policy if a coed says it offended her. All sorts of things which would not remotely be considered sexual assault out in the real world are described as sexual assault in the warped world of collegiate sexual politics. These guys were not apologizing for anything which normal people would regard as “rape or sexual assault”, they apologized for hurting the girls feelings.
What a tragic loss. I can see Hilary Swank in the role of Sabrina in the film version. And for Jackie? Are you kidding me? Rooney Mara could be spending time with this complex young woman right now to prepare for the role. Alas.
You know, if this was the Right’s embarrassment there’d be a Broadway musical in the works already.
There is no “rape culture” at university. That’s just a made-up phrase. Anyplace where there’s thousands of people you can bet that 1-2% are sociopaths of one sort or another who are scheming. This holds true for conventions of doctors, accountants, religious types, card players, anything. But that’s not a “culture” of it. What is it with these people who insist on their funhouse-mirror version of reality? PC-cultthink is a secular religion impervious to reason and rational discussion. Can’t they do something more worthwhile with their time such as writing love letters to death-row inmates?
Allow me to offer this alternative explanation: There were fewer sexual encounters in those days to begin with - respectable young ladies did not have premarital sex except perhaps (or perhaps not) with their fiance (and if they became pregnant, whoever they were having sex with BECAME their fiance). Certainly not in college dorms which were well chaperoned. If sex did happen, what went on behind closed doors in a hotel room/ in the back seat of '57 Chevies was highly private and never admitted to publicly, especially not by young ladies (men might brag to their buddies). If some sexual negotiation between a girl and her steady went wrong this was not something you would take public before some tribunal. If the offense was grievous enough, the couple would break up and that would be the end of it. Certainly (and to this day) the police would have nothing to do with it - if a woman put herself alone in a room with a man and without her knickers, then whatever happened after that was definitely not rape and was no more than she deserved for putting herself in that position. There were no campus tribunals to deal with such complaints. Any woman would even be ashamed to admit that she had done as much.
Let us take the case of the "mattress girl" at Columbia. According to her account (and she tell this without embarrassment to everyone who asks, indeed to all of America) she was having consensual vaginal relations with a casual acquaintance when he decided to use the back door (and she had not agreed to this part of the deal). Since she had not specifically consented to this act, Romeo went from welcome vaginal guest to rapist in her view, and she demanded from all that would hear that he be punished accordingly. Would ANYONE in 1950s America publicly admit this and seek legal or public redress for such a complaint? Was there ANY forum in America that would have heard such a dispute and not thrown the hussy out the door the moment she was so bold as to actually give the details thereof?
But in 2014 America, having drunk the "consent" Koolaid, she considers this to be a valid complaint and is shocked, shocked that neither the police, nor (surprisingly) the campus authorities consider to be anything more than a lover's quarrel that is not judicable. Thus she carries the mattress that was the scene of the crime as the burden she must bear in order to receive redress (and earn her 15 minutes of fame and a book deal).Replies: @Officious intermeddler
Actually, that’s not true. I’ve read hundreds of rape cases in old law reporters. In the past, as now, the large majority of cases involve the same facts: The man and the woman both agree that they were alone together by mutual consent; often they both agree that they were drinking and kissing; they also agree that they had intercourse; the only point of disagreement is that she says she didn’t consent to the intercourse and he says she did. Men were convicted every day under those circumstances. The notion that in the bad old days, police, prosecutors and juries sneered at women who had been raped is a myth. The difference between then and now is that men were able to mount a fuller and more vigorous defense than today’s rape shield laws allow.
About the mattress girl: I don’t know exactly what she’s alleging. But if she consented to vaginal sex but he penetrated her anally over her expressed objections, that would clearly be a crime. Is that what she claims happened? Presumably not, or the university would not have so completely dismissed her accusations. So is she saying that she didn’t object but he should have known anyway that she didn’t really, truly, in her heart of hearts, want to do it? Or what?
Even though what mattress girl alleges might be a crime if it could be proven, it would be very difficult to obtain proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The delay of 8 months in reporting is the last nail in the coffin of her credibility and the cases rests solely on that since there is no other evidence.
The other day, someone posted a link here to an academic paper on "factitious sexual harassment". One of the scenarios given is the woman does not feel particularly harassed/raped at the time but months later she is in some kind of group therapy or consciousness raising session and the other women convince her that she was really raped/harassed even though she didn't know it. Women are herd animals - we saw in the Cosby situation than no one said anything for decades but once one spoke, now dozens, hundreds, thousands of women are coming forward. Same with Jimmy Savile in the UK. Assange's girlfriends also didn't know they had been raped until they met each other and compared notes. I'm pretty sure that if I were raped while I was not unconscious I would know it right then and there.
Something should be written about the rape culture that exists among Democratic politicians. You wouldn’t know if from the article, but (in Virginia no less!) a Democratic legislator commits statutory rape AND has a nude photo of a minor on his phone, ie. child pornography, and gets off with a wrist-slap misdemeanor that allows him to continue to be an active congressman while concurrently serving a one year jail term.
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/db6c0e0745624fab84f2a2fcfea9a615/VA--Virginia-Legislator-Charges
Isn’t that what all these Social Media Justice Warriors are upset about, that even when rape is reported to the authorities, rapists are not served proper justice? Is not statutory rape still rape?
did somebody mention “Grease”? I was thinking animal house, only now all the frats are pc, and the wasps are really the good guys (somehow). but a musical about consent might be okay… “Please?” it’s the word it’s the word
About the mattress girl: I don't know exactly what she's alleging. But if she consented to vaginal sex but he penetrated her anally over her expressed objections, that would clearly be a crime. Is that what she claims happened? Presumably not, or the university would not have so completely dismissed her accusations. So is she saying that she didn't object but he should have known anyway that she didn't really, truly, in her heart of hearts, want to do it? Or what?Replies: @snorlax, @Jack D
The (CPUSA-supplied) defense lawyers in the case that started the American left’s obsession with race, the “Scottsboro Boys,” essentially built their whole case on accusing the accusers (publicly, by name and with photographs, in national newspapers) of being total sluts who were totally asking for it.
I’ve always wanted to ask a leftist what they thought about the defense tactics in the Scottsboro Boys case.
The nice White lady who’s the President of the California State University at Long Beach says we need to check our White privilege:
http://www.infowars.com/university-president-all-white-people-are-racist/
… and the original source:
http://www.csulb.edu/sites/president/2014/12/privilege-at-the-beach/
She doesn’t seem to get that she’s living in the golden age of the nice White lady with connections and a government job, not in the golden age of White people generally.
I mean, isn’t that what the media’s always after? An end to the feeding frenzy? A stop to the craziness, and a return to the humdrum ho-hum of normal, lower ratings, and a bored audience?
Oof. Body blow.
What? For the FIRST TIME? So, when will Sailer finally see Star Wars?
I thought everyone's seen GREASE and a whole bunch of times. I saw it 4 times when it came out in 1978.
PS. But then, I still haven't seen Titanic, so...Replies: @manton, @manton, @Lurker
Even worse, Steve is from Los Angeles. Though, maybe in 1978, he had left for Houston and they didn’t get the movie there.
Grease is an iconic LA movie, not least because of the drag race scene in the LA River.
Mattress girl alleged that she was having vaginal sex with an on and off BF and that he then flipped her over and penetrated her anally. She then filed a complaint 8 months later after meeting a girl who had had the same BF and claimed he was “emotionally abusive.” A third girl was added to the complaint and claimed that the guy in question had kissed her once at a frat mixer. Thus, a “serial rapist” was born.
The university board was incredulous that anal sex had taken place without lubrication. The guy admitted to the act, but said she was cool with it, and just wiped herself off afterwards. I’m guessing, but I think the reason the board did not validate her claim is because of the >8 month delay in filing a complaint.
If I recall correctly the entire affair was looked at and dismissed back in 2013. The guy is still attending, so is she. Her mattress schtick is part of her senior thesis. Notwithstanding that a woman who carries a mattress around could be well characterized as a woman who sleeps around, she’s still at it.
As for the “act”, all I can say is that in my experience a desire for most sexual action and variation is indicated by non-verbal cues, not a Q and A.
@Jefferson @steve sailer
Let’s work on that list! “Just my Imagination” may not be the greatest song ever, but it has the creepiest “plot resolution” of any song I have ever heard. I consider it a masterpiece of “Stalk Rock” right up there with the Who’s “I Can See for Miles” but Sean Tejaratchi, who coined the term, didn’t include it on his parody album cover from Feb 2014. I will now attach a URL, I hope that is OK.
What? For the FIRST TIME? So, when will Sailer finally see Star Wars?
I thought everyone's seen GREASE and a whole bunch of times. I saw it 4 times when it came out in 1978.
PS. But then, I still haven't seen Titanic, so...Replies: @manton, @manton, @Lurker
Even worse, Steve was born and raise in Los Angeles. Grease is one of the all-time iconic LA movies. For that scene in the LA River if nothing else.
Steve says his nostalgia sweet spot is post-war California, and he never saw Grease??? WTF, man?
Art Deco @ December 12, 2014 at 10:12 pm GMT-
Sounds like the kid caught a “bug” from the 31 year old man.
Sexual mores have been thrown out the window, so we are seeing yet another dimension of Tom Wolve’s The Great Relearning.
http://www.unz.org/Pub/AmSpectator-1987dec-00014
SJWs on the Donald Sterling case: “What people say should have consequences! Our witch hunt is justified!”
SJWs on the UVa rape case: “There shouldn’t be any consequences for what we said! Our witch hunt is justified!”
About the mattress girl: I don't know exactly what she's alleging. But if she consented to vaginal sex but he penetrated her anally over her expressed objections, that would clearly be a crime. Is that what she claims happened? Presumably not, or the university would not have so completely dismissed her accusations. So is she saying that she didn't object but he should have known anyway that she didn't really, truly, in her heart of hearts, want to do it? Or what?Replies: @snorlax, @Jack D
In all those old cases you read, was there one where the woman said that she totally agreed to vaginal sex but not to some other act? One?
Even though what mattress girl alleges might be a crime if it could be proven, it would be very difficult to obtain proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The delay of 8 months in reporting is the last nail in the coffin of her credibility and the cases rests solely on that since there is no other evidence.
The other day, someone posted a link here to an academic paper on “factitious sexual harassment”. One of the scenarios given is the woman does not feel particularly harassed/raped at the time but months later she is in some kind of group therapy or consciousness raising session and the other women convince her that she was really raped/harassed even though she didn’t know it. Women are herd animals – we saw in the Cosby situation than no one said anything for decades but once one spoke, now dozens, hundreds, thousands of women are coming forward. Same with Jimmy Savile in the UK. Assange’s girlfriends also didn’t know they had been raped until they met each other and compared notes. I’m pretty sure that if I were raped while I was not unconscious I would know it right then and there.
The defense lawyers claimed that the women had consented, which is to say, that they “were totally asking for it.”
The prosecution made much of the fact that the women were married, with the implication that they would not have had sex with men other than their husbands. It also argued that, as white women, they would not have consented to sex with black men. In response, the defense claimed that the women frequently consented to adulterous sex, including with black men, and that they had previously been convicted of drunkenness and prostitution, or in other words, that they were “total sluts.” I don’t know whether those were true facts or just fabrications by the defense. If I recall correctly, though, the judge refused to allow the defense to cross-examine the women about any of those things. Or at least one of the judges did — there was more than one trial and it’s been a long time since I read anything about the case.
Sounds like the kid caught a "bug" from the 31 year old man.Replies: @Art Deco
He would not have known. The suicide was within a couple of weeks of meeting that other fellow.
Dude got expelled, convicted, and then deported.
Remember how Stephen Glass got barred and shunned not only from being a journalist, but from being a lawyer as well, all for inventing stories?
Yet Jackie and Erdley--who accused an entire group of men of an unspeakable crime, and led the nation on a wild goose chase of lies---will not face any criminal charges or punishment of the sort.
Female privilege.Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Art Deco, @Reg Cæsar
Pink trumps brown in the Narrative Rainbow.
Generally speaking, they don't deport aliens unless the offense results in a jail term in excess of 1 year. Rhavi served 20 days 0n a 30 day sentence.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/18/dharun-ravi-not-deported-ice_n_1606817.htmlReplies: @snorlax
“…and it’s not because it and other college campuses are, in the words of one blogger, “infected by the horribly destructive disease of political correctness.” It’s because there’s a problem here, even if Jackie proves to be the wrong person to represent it. ”
More of the same leftwingnut nonsense and misdirection. It’s not “one blogger” who thinks that our campuses are infected with destructive PC, it’s the view of most of America.
Having shown that the case was a lie, they proceed to the typical,” even though it’s a lie, it’s true” nonsense. How about if a white man claimed that a black woman savagely attacked him and it was proven false? Should we chalk it up to showing that we need to pay more attention to the serious situation of black women savagely attacking white men?
Why shouldn’t we instead view false rape accusations as evidence that possibly many more that are reported are either exaggerated or false?
Rhavi was not deported.
Generally speaking, they don’t deport aliens unless the offense results in a jail term in excess of 1 year. Rhavi served 20 days 0n a 30 day sentence.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/18/dharun-ravi-not-deported-ice_n_1606817.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30307657
http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=992430#.VIvDhKTF9tI
http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/revenge-porn-defendent-sentenced-to-jail/80594/Of_9pfQcvESQ6oljx0Nt7AOr these cases where men merely secretly filmed women using the bathroom:http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Oregon-restroom-voyeur-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison-205788271.html
http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/video-voyeur-sentenced-1.1653512
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/04/10/voyeur-sentenced-to-6-months.html
http://www.mcalesternews.com/news/video-voyeur-sentenced-still-faces-felonies/article_dd8af318-2fad-11e4-95c3-001a4bcf887a.html
http://www.fox8live.com/story/23604187/pd-az-voyeur-sold-bathroom-pictures-onlineReplies: @Reg Cæsar
Guys, use a voice recorder with a time, date and GPS stamp. Turn it on. Give her a “safe word” to say, and then go for it. If she never says the “safe word” you are covered. You cannot count on her memory. Better to have a permanent record.
There really was a case many years ago of a rapist who broke in through a window and forced his victim to sign a written consent form before he raped her. He may have raped more than one woman; I don't recall. He was convicted anyway, of course.
It won’t work. She’ll claim duress.
There really was a case many years ago of a rapist who broke in through a window and forced his victim to sign a written consent form before he raped her. He may have raped more than one woman; I don’t recall. He was convicted anyway, of course.
Generally speaking, they don't deport aliens unless the offense results in a jail term in excess of 1 year. Rhavi served 20 days 0n a 30 day sentence.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/18/dharun-ravi-not-deported-ice_n_1606817.htmlReplies: @snorlax
Yup, that guy definitely has a weird obsession with us gays, since it’s patently obvious that gay men rank below even straight women in the SJW hierarchy. This is a typical piece: http://jezebel.com/the-myth-of-the-fag-hag-and-dirty-secrets-of-the-gay-ma-1506868402
Or we could look at real life. Imagine what the sentence would be if a man secretly filmed a woman having sex, then posted it to the internet, and then she killed herself.
We can imagine the sentence would be much, much steeper, as we can see from these cases where men merely took risque photographs of women, with their consent, then posted them to the internet:
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/12/seattle-man-sentenced-for-posting-revenge-porn-of-women/
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30307657
http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=992430#.VIvDhKTF9tI
http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/revenge-porn-defendent-sentenced-to-jail/80594/Of_9pfQcvESQ6oljx0Nt7A
Or these cases where men merely secretly filmed women using the bathroom:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Oregon-restroom-voyeur-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison-205788271.html
http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/video-voyeur-sentenced-1.1653512
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/04/10/voyeur-sentenced-to-6-months.html
http://www.mcalesternews.com/news/video-voyeur-sentenced-still-faces-felonies/article_dd8af318-2fad-11e4-95c3-001a4bcf887a.html
http://www.fox8live.com/story/23604187/pd-az-voyeur-sold-bathroom-pictures-online
” Same with Jimmy Savile in the UK.” -Jack D-
Oh no, not even close, read up @ Aangirfan on Savile and Cyril Smith and their association with the Kray Twins. They made Penn State look like saints. The worst part of it is the hundreds of “regular” folks who helped cover all this up.
Art Deco- thanks for the correction, then who knows?
What? For the FIRST TIME? So, when will Sailer finally see Star Wars?
I thought everyone's seen GREASE and a whole bunch of times. I saw it 4 times when it came out in 1978.
PS. But then, I still haven't seen Titanic, so...Replies: @manton, @manton, @Lurker
I’ve never seen E.T. or The Sound of Music. Well, not yet anyway.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30307657
http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=992430#.VIvDhKTF9tI
http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/revenge-porn-defendent-sentenced-to-jail/80594/Of_9pfQcvESQ6oljx0Nt7AOr these cases where men merely secretly filmed women using the bathroom:http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Oregon-restroom-voyeur-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison-205788271.html
http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/video-voyeur-sentenced-1.1653512
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/04/10/voyeur-sentenced-to-6-months.html
http://www.mcalesternews.com/news/video-voyeur-sentenced-still-faces-felonies/article_dd8af318-2fad-11e4-95c3-001a4bcf887a.html
http://www.fox8live.com/story/23604187/pd-az-voyeur-sold-bathroom-pictures-onlineReplies: @Reg Cæsar
No, I just have a weird fascination with those exceptional cases where the race card isn’t played. Why didn’t the other shoe drop? Two nonwhite students are hounded out of school for inadvertently catching a white roommate bringing in a thirty-something prostitute. Tell me that wouldn’t be a cause célèbre if the white kid’s whore had been female.
Why does it seem that, in those rare times whites are able to force a public apology out of blacks, more often than not– way more often– the whites in question are gay? I suspect even Jews are jealous of this ability.
Would be very interested to see if the feminist survivor brigade would still cling to their go-to beliefs “the accuser is always the victim” and “guilty until proven innocent” after reading this… (may want to keep this in handy for the next time you’re attacked for believing in due process and/or the existence of false rape accusations !)…
http://dailym.ai/1zhnrWp
No, the man in question was not a prostitute, and his age is not public information: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/ravi_trial_mbs_testimony_provi.html
And recording people having sex without their knowledge or consent and posting it on the internet is always taken very seriously by the law; this case is exceptional only in how light a sentence Dharun Ravi received (as I demonstrated in the previous post). If it were a 30-something female prostitute with Clementi, Ravi would have received a much longer sentence, as sex crimes with female victims are virtually always treated as felonies.
Indians barely qualify as “non-white” by SJW standards, btw; they’re a Caucasoid model minority who are mostly from an oppressor class back home (Brahmins). Ravi could pass as a Sephardic Jew:
Sex crimes are also an exception where even blacks, much less lesser non-whites, are not given a pass by SJWs, as most SJWs are straight women. C.f. Bill Cosby
And gays are not able to get public apologies from blacks; after the Isaiah Washington incident (7 years ago, btw), his publicist issued a mealy-mouthed sorry-you-were-offended non-apology, after which he immediately retracted it in public and made more offensive statements. He was released from his Grey’s Anatomy contract, which makes sense as gays are a large part of the fanbase of prime-time soap operas, and as a high-I.Q. group,* we are, like Jews, significantly overrepresented amongst TV and film producers, writers, and directors (and actors, although many are closeted for career reasons). So in Washington’s case, it was biting the hand that fed him.
* http://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/JBS2012.pdf
But in general, we’re actually not really a group with all that much cultural clout. Gays can’t even get the white Eminem to stop announcing violent intentions towards “fags” multiple times in the lyrics of his heavy-rotation, critically-praised singles.* Soap opera casting choices 7 years ago are special cases. Isaiah Washington is still working; if he’d called his Jewish co-star Eric Dane a “kike,” he’d never get another acting gig again, no matter how sincerely he apologized. And Jews don’t really have all that much cultural clout themselves when it comes down to it, since to truly be a SJW in good standing, one has to be pro-Palestinian.
* http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eminem/rapgod.html
I guess the benefit of big controversial stories like UVa is that it brings out the best commenters. I thoroughly enjoyed today’s offerings from all of you. And in too many blogs, the author posting is really the only thing worth reading. Not here, not today.
So if anyone asks me to say what is “White Male Privilege”, then I would have to respond:
“Reading the comments on the iSteve blog”
Wonder if this:
CHANEL N°5: The One That I Want
is what got Steve curious about Grease.
“Most of our laws and moral ideas about “rape” stem from an era before pornography enlightened young people about the wide range of alternatives they have in sex acts. ”
Mattress Girl is a very self-conscious “cool girl” – I’m sure everyone here has committed Gone Girl Amy’s rant about cool girls to memory. Remember the part about “threesomes and anal sex”?
If her BF had pressured her into PIV she wouldn’t be walking around campus with a mattress. I guess she’s discovered she’s not so cool after all.
Mark Regnerus has pointed out that with the normalization of gay relationships, gay sex practices must become normalized. He has of course been ridiculed for this by the usual suspects.
Princeton Mom has spoken words of wisdom about learning from one’s mistakes:
I do hope that MG wasn’t permanently damaged by her experience being buttsecksed. Do guys nowadays really like this?
So if anyone asks me to say what is "White Male Privilege", then I would have to respond:
"Reading the comments on the iSteve blog"Replies: @Desiderius
Was thinking the same thing.
Wonder if this:
CHANEL N°5: The One That I Want
is what got Steve curious about Grease.
The driving force behind all the feminist fury is that most of the best men actually prefer something like this in a mate:
Let Me Be There
Never realized how much she looks like Bündchen’s spouse.
“SPMoore8 says:
While we are on the subject of movies, can I get a soundtrack for the film version of the UVA Rape Hoax? I got two.
#1 – “Jackie Blue” Ozark Boys
#2 – “Just My Imagination” Temptations”
#3 – “Imaginary Lover”, Atlanta Rythm Section
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/db6c0e0745624fab84f2a2fcfea9a615/VA--Virginia-Legislator-ChargesIsn't that what all these Social Media Justice Warriors are upset about, that even when rape is reported to the authorities, rapists are not served proper justice? Is not statutory rape still rape?Replies: @NOTA
It is bugfuck nuts that he could get sent to jail for having a nude picture of a young woman, when it was perfectly legal for him to sleep with her.
Ravi could pass as a Mizrahi Jew, but he’s significantly darker than the average descendant of the Iberian Sephardim who ended up in the Netherlands, Britain, and Turkey.
My first four guesses for his ethnicity would be South Asian, Arab, Roma and Mizrahi, but if he had a neutral accent and he said he was a Sephardi, there wouldn’t be any reason to doubt him, which is how I define “could pass as.”
Just My Imagination is an outstanding song, and particularly appropriate for what did not happen at UVA. It is, however, not the best song ever, or even the best song from the Temptations.
Papa Was a Rolling Stone was their best song, followed by Ball of Confusion (the title of which is appropriate for “Jackie”, although the lyrics not so much).
If you have not seen it, I would highly recommend their eponymous 1998 miniseries. The beginning is too slow and it is far too long, but the middle of that production is fantastic. The actors purportedly sang their parts of the movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOHCXQI-4WI
Just My Imagination is an outstanding song, and particularly appropriate for what did not happen at UVA. It is, however, not the best song ever, or even the best song from the Temptations.
Papa Was a Rolling Stone was their best song, followed by Ball of Confusion (the title of which is appropriate for "Jackie", although the lyrics not so much).
If you have not seen it, I would highly recommend their eponymous 1998 miniseries. The beginning is too slow and it is far too long, but the middle of that production is fantastic. The actors purportedly sang their parts of the movie.Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
Ball of Confusion is clunky stuff compared with the smooth flow of Just My Imagination. JMI has been covered dozens of times, not so many for BoC.
Does that solve your problem?Replies: @jackson, @RickyVaughn
Steve, you should look into re-hosting images that you post on imgur.com