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As the years go by and the evidence continues to pile up for what we might call the iSteve worldview, a general trend seems to be for public figures to make ever more strident and boneheaded declarations of True Belief in the Dogmas of the Age, whether to protect themselves or to bully their victims.
For example, Jeffrey Goldberg, the American-born former IDF prison guard who is a prominent journalist regarding the Middle East for The Atlantic, is angry about something the head of Human Rights Watch tweeted:
A few days ago, the executive director of Human Rights Watch, Kenneth Roth, tweeted the following statement: “Germans rally against anti-Semitism that flared in Europe in response to Israel’s conduct in Gaza war. Merkel joins.”
That seems pretty unobjectionable. So why is Goldberg up in arms over it?
Anti-Semitism in Europe did not flare “in response to Israel’s conduct in Gaza,” or anywhere else.
How does he know this? He knows from first principles:
It is a universal and immutable rule that the targets of prejudice are not the cause of prejudice. Just as Jews (or Jewish organizations, or the Jewish state) do not cause anti-Semitism to flare, or intensify, or even to exist, neither do black people cause racism, nor gay people homophobia, nor Muslims Islamophobia.
Now, you know and I know and Jeffrey Goldberg knows that he is BSing us. (If Goldberg doesn’t realize he’s being disingenuous, he ought to be humiliated by his public display of ignorance.) Most likely, Goldberg is just laughing at both the silly people who believe his nonsense and at the public-spirited people who open themselves up to hatred and attack by the mob by pointing out the implausibility of his bullying.
A general principle I’ve been enunciating for many years is that stupid principles really don’t benefit stupid people; instead, dopey ideas typically are most exploitable by clever, ruthless guys like Jeffrey Goldberg.
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Goldberg must have been mad when he wrote that. His stuff is usually much more poised and reserved.
Embarrassing. Liberals seem to be unable to deal with nuance. For example, a reasonable person believes that a woman should not drink to such excess that she becomes an easy target for rapists. A reasonable person also believes that one should not take advantage of women who have drunk to excess in such a manner. There is nothing contradictory about these thoughts. Similarly, one can believe that Israel’s conduct in Gaza was right and proper, that it increased anti-Semitic incidents in Europe, and that said anti-Semitic response was wrong. There is nothing contradictory here.
What Goldberg's phrasing elides, though, is that individual opinions of groups can also be the result of "postjudice" (Gavin McGinnis's term, if memory serves).Replies: @anon, @tomv
“nor Muslims Islamophobia.”
Okay. So, Zionist hatred of Arabs and Muslims cannot be blamed on anything Arabs and Muslims might have done to Jews. Jews simply must be prejudiced.
After all, it’s a universal and immutable law!
PS. Why is Goldberg talking like he’s God or something? I mean how can he be so certain of immutable/universal laws? Are they the same in other galaxies too?
Btw, what happens when there’s bad blood between Jews and blacks? Suppose Jews say blacks are ‘antisemitic’ and blacks say Jews are ‘racist’.
Since it’s a universal and immutable law that Jews aren’t in any way to blame for black perception of Jews and blacks aren’t in any way to blame for Jewish perception of blacks, do we just assume that both groups are both utterly blameless AND utterly blame-worthy for their prejudices?
Hard paradox to swallow.
” Pamela Reeves
Advisor, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Pamela Reeves is principal of Reeves Advisory. She advises international organizations, foundations, and companies on ways to build public-private partnerships and develop gender strategies. Reeves most recently served in the US State Department as director of Hillary Clinton’s International Fund for Women and Girls. She has been a UN human rights officer, director for new initiatives at the International Foundation for Election Systems, and advisor to the election commissions of several countries. Reeves serves on the advisory board of ONE Girls and Women and mentors women for the Public Leadership Education Network and for Women Rule. ”
Jeffrey’s wife–man, must be nice to have a BS job like that.
“The Jew of the title is the author. Raised in the 1970s in a mixed Long Island neighborhood, in an assimilated Jewish family, Goldberg is candid about the source of his Zionism: “It could be argued that no country in the Diaspora has so successfully inoculated itself against Jew-hatred as has America. But the fear of anti-Semitism is the forge on which many American Jews build their identities. This is how I built mine.” In his case, it was the anti-Semitism of the school playground — cruel, bullying games like “Bend the Jew” — which left him with permanent, if minor, traumas: “Perhaps this is because they were not sporadic. They were for a period of time my existence,” Goldberg writes, adding that he did little to alleviate his plight except “silently blame my parents … for settling in a wasteland of Irish pogromists.” ”
When this is your worldview…
Thus anyone settling amongst white people from now on fully accepts that reality and doesnt therefore have any grounds to complain, the evils of white racism is something they implicitly acquiesced to. They can blame themselves for settling, they can blame their parents for doing so.
OT: @Steve have you heard about Ebola-chan?http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nigeria-ebola-meme-being-used-spread-fears-virus-was-created-by-white-people-1466095
Essentially 4chan created a meme implicating devilish whites in creating/spreading ebola. The anons then inserted into popular African internet forums, causing much fear and panic. Horrifying, fascinating, somewhat hilarious. A truly viral meme.
Likewise, the terribly outnumbered, less than one billion people of European descent can in no ways be blamed for any of the hatred directed their way by some of the 6 or so billion non-Europeans. Methinks Mr. Goldberg’s logic collapses upon itself.
funny shame profile on him http://shameproject.com/profile/jeffrey-goldberg/
unfortunately, they did one for Murray, too.
liberals and paleoconservtives alike don’t like jeffrey goldberg
When this is your worldview...Replies: @Lurker, @Joe Walker
At least he partly blames his parents, thats actually a step forward, not all the blame lies with those dastardly ‘pogromists’. Can we take it that from now on September 2014 all jews understand that all whites are ‘pogromists’, that all blacks understand that all whites are racists and so on…
Thus anyone settling amongst white people from now on fully accepts that reality and doesnt therefore have any grounds to complain, the evils of white racism is something they implicitly acquiesced to. They can blame themselves for settling, they can blame their parents for doing so.
Of course, the ineffectual rockets launched by Hamas did not cause the Israelis to bomb Gaza. It was anti-Arab prejudice, pure and simple. The actions of the inhabitants of Gaza had nothing to do with it… according to the universal, immutable law proclaimed by supreme moral arbiter Jeffrey Goldberg.
OT
Diversity is the gift that keeps on giving. And in case you had any doubts:
Tony Abbott: ‘Security may come before some freedoms’
Not only that, you get your intelligence insulted on a regular basis — eg here, where the government says it can make you ‘secure’.
Conservative convert David Mamet makes exactly the same argument in chapter 1 of The Wicked Son, “In or Out.” Either you agree that Jews cannot be responsible for anti-Semitism, or you’re an anti-Semite. In or out. Of course, the converse is that Jews cannot be responsible for philo-Semitism, but Mamet doesn’t make the connection. See chapter 2.
Steve, did you get my email about getting in contact with the other guy in Hong Kong? Thanks for replying.
“…Irish pogromists.”
In some weird alternate universe, peaceful little shtetls in Ireland were occasionally set upon by the Black and Tans.
“wasteland of Irish pogromists”
If he had written “wasteland of black pogromists” would that still have been okay?
Jeffrey Goldberg’s Islamophobia is showing, which of course has no connection to the actions of Muslims.
Of course, I do not even need to state here that all of the vicious anti semitism that erupted in Europe a month or so back was entirely promulgated by muslim immgrants to Europe and their descendants. As a hat tip very very few ethnic Germans brought up and living in Germany would ever dream of espousing public anti semitism. It is the ultimate taboo comparabe,say, to a muslim publically advocating gay rights. Of course persons of German descent living in the USA and most likely have never been to Germany nor can speak German are a different story.
It’s hard to take Goldberg seriously much of the time. The above mentioned “bend the Jew” and “Irish pogromists” nonsense is also clearly BS. Is his wife Irish? With a surname like Reeves she could be, so maybe it was an inside joke.
His irreverence can sometimes approach that of Sacha Barone Cohen, who has a pretty, Celtic wife himself. And similar politics.
While all this stuff is kind of amusing on a superficial level, the sad thing is that a lot of people take it seriously even as many of our “thought leaders” act as though it’s all a big joke.
It’s always hard to be sure of what people truly believe as opposed to what their public stance is. However, one thing we do know about this fellow is that he’s pretty shameless.
“Israel’s conduct in Gaza war” is itself something of a blooper since it was so one-sided it couldn’t be called a war but was really a punitive attack. DailyMail reported that Israel had expended over $2b of armaments in it’s “war” and so stocks needed replenishing. That’s a lot of munitions to dump on a small area like Gaza. But yet it’s a “war” and propagandists like Goldberg are out there trying to bamboozle people, even having the gall to tie the subject to other PC protected classes. Him using the term “Islamophobia” to browbeat everyone else is particularly nervy.
“It is a universal and immutable rule that the targets of prejudice are not the cause of prejudice.” I dare say that many people living in the English countryside could think of a counter-example.
Thinking of stereotypes I remember a Channel Islander once saying, about the Portuguese labourers who came to pick the early potato crop, what nice people they seemed to be. Must we conclude that it is a universal and immutable rule that the targets of praise are not the cause of praise?
The Gaza War caused anti-Semitism as much as Michael Taylor’s death caused rioting in Ferguson. An occasion, not a cause.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/montgomery-schools-differ-in-recent-algebra-1-final-exam-failures/2014/09/21/a79c3774-3d97-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html?hpid=z4
Meanwhile, kids are failing math… Even after adding 15 points to their scores.
Goldberg is right and you’re making excuses.
That the recent anti-Israel protests in Europe had nothing to do with the Gaza conflict?
The "universal and immutable rule"?
That the logical response to getting roughed-up by "Irish pogromists" is to go halfway round the globe to become a jailer of Palestinians?
That one can be a Zionist without living permanently in Zion, but rather earning fame and fortune in evil anti-Semitic goyische kopf America?Replies: @Art Deco
Given, say, the fact that on any given day one can pick up an Israeli paper and see mainstream Israeli figures exhorting jews to move to Israel because of a prejudiced view of the alleged unquenchable anti-semitism that inheres in Gentiles, and indeed that same justifies Israel’s existence, and given the demands of Israel for the support of modern Europeans generally and Germans especially due to the Holocaust even though same weren’t even born when the Holocaust took place much less participated in it, and given that modern Germans are still paying reparations to Holocaust victims, and given such common yiddish words and their meanings such as goy, goyishe kopf, shiksa and shegetz and etc., etc., it’s obvious Goldberg has a big exception in mind for his rule.
I.e.: “It is a universal and immutable rule that the targets of prejudice are not the cause of prejudice … except when the targets of jewish prejudice are gentiles.”
“It is a universal and immutable rule that the targets of prejudice are not the cause of prejudice. Just as Jews (or Jewish organizations, or the Jewish state) do not cause anti-Semitism to flare, or intensify, or even to exist, neither do black people cause racism, nor gay people homophobia, nor Muslims Islamophobia.”
Nobody is ever to blame for what others think about them. Well, nobody but white gentile men, that is – they are to blame for everything. Of course, Goldberg feels the need to throw in sops to blacks and homosexuals (why do liberals insist on using the word “gay” rather than “homosexual”, but then use the word “homophobia”. If “homophobia” is okay, why isn’t “homosexual”?), but his point is really only about Jews. To paraphrase Erich Segal: being jewish means never having to say your sorry.
“eah says:
Diversity is the gift that keeps on giving. And in case you had any doubts:
Tony Abbott: ‘Security may come before some freedoms’
Not only that, you get your intelligence insulted on a regular basis — eg here, where the government says it can make you ‘secure’.”
Notice how they always use the word “secure”, not safe. The dead can be secure, although they are not safe. Nothing makes me feel quite so insecure as the term “National Security”.
Actually they are using the wrod “secure” in the old medieval sense of being in a state of grace before dying. Our soul will be right with the PC platitudes of our age.
“pizza with hot pepper says:
Btw, what happens when there’s bad blood between Jews and blacks? Suppose Jews say blacks are ‘antisemitic’ and blacks say Jews are ‘racist’.
Since it’s a universal and immutable law that Jews aren’t in any way to blame for black perception of Jews and blacks aren’t in any way to blame for Jewish perception of blacks, do we just assume that both groups are both utterly blameless AND utterly blame-worthy for their prejudices?”
Obviously, in those cases, it’s the fault of white christians.
This is a threadjack, but I’d be curious what Steve has to say about this video from the University of Pittsburgh’s Department of the History and Philosophy of Science (HPS):
Note: don’t think that, just because these professors are from Pittsburgh, that they are, to quote Bobby “The Brain” Heenan, ham-and-eggers. Pittsburgh is generally recognized as having the best philosophers of science in the world, and has for a while now. (And no, philosophers of science are not dummies just because they’re not scientists. Tim Maudlin and David Z. Albert are pretty damn smart.)
The Mulatto Elite are not the cause of prejudice against them:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/09/figures-eric-holder-participated-in-armed-takeover-of-rotc-office/
We’re all prone to rationalizations and situational morality, but most of us feel guilty when we know what we’re saying is nonsense, stupid or dishonest. Not Goldberg. It’s all make believe. Whatever works to advance his interests is good, regardless. Goldberg knows he’ll never be called on his lies, so why not lie? Most of us would say lying is bad, as a principle–for Goldberg there are no lies or truths, just what works and what doesn’t.
And some guy who’s never outgrown grade-school (GRADE SCHOOL!) taunts and childish stupidity is permitted to interview presidents, lecture to us and lie to us at will. A fun investigation would be to determine the demographic make up of Goldberg GRADE SCHOOL!–Long Island, 70s–and interview some of his class mates (probably none of whom even remember Goldberg) and especially other Jewish classmates. Did they all suffer abuse for being Jewish or did Goldberg’s obnoxiousness stand out even back then?
I’ve noticed that whenever Jews say really stupid things (and not a day goes by without at least one Jewish talking head saying some really stupid thing) the reaction is never “Wow, he’s really stupid!” but instead “See how clever and manipulative he is!”
That’s because for Steve and many of his commenters there is a first principle which states that Jews are immensely intelligent. Since first principles are by definition never wrong then all these Jews constantly saying stupid things cannot be evidence of Jewish stupidity. By a process of elimination they arrive at the conclusion that Jews saying stupid things are really being clever.
Here’s a thought. Perhaps Jeffrey Goldberg is not employed in his position as a paid policy pundit because of his towering intellect. Perhaps he’s exactly what he seems to be – a bit dimwitted and a bit bigoted and only enjoying his current position and influence because he’s a member of the “Old Jews” club.
sailer wrote:
“dopey ideas typically are most exploitable by clever, ruthless guys like Jeffrey Goldberg.”
===========
I disagree with your assessment here. First, anti-white/multiculti ideas are not “dopey”, not from the perspective of those who push them. The corporations and their lapdog elite push these anti-white/multiculti ideas. And these anti-white/multiculti ideas are there to make the corporations more money by increasing the supply of labor and consumers. Not dopey, at least not from the perspective of the corporations. Yes, these ideas are harmful to the white majority. But the corporations are at war with white majority Labor. And anti-white/multiculti ideas are weapons used against us.
Second, I doubt that this goldberg is all that clever or ruthless. He is just a “monkey see, monkey do” sort of guy. He has seen that the powers that be will reward those pundits, journalists, writers, entertainers, activists, academics etc who are the best at pushing these anti-white/multiculti ideas. And that is what he is doing here–pushing the propaganda of the elite. He is pushing white guilt onto white minds. The establishment has shown that pundits, journalists, writers, entertainers, activists, academics etc who push white guilt onto white minds will be rewarded with attention from the corporate media.
He is signalling CorpGovMedia that he will do their work for them. He hopes to be rewarded. This is just monkey see monkey do.
The tagline on the article is pure gold:
“A powerful advocate appears to believe that anti-Semitism is sparked in part by Jewish behavior.”
OH NOES!
It is a universal and immutable rule that the targets of prejudice are not the cause of prejudice.
Got it. Nazi’s, who are the targets of Jewish prejudice, are not the cause of the prejudice. Because it’s a universal and immutable rule, dammit!
It’s self-evident that Goldberg has all the intellect of a head of cabbage.
Where are the marches against the North Korean death camps, ISIS, etc.? Obviously, Jews are held to a higher standard and it’s reasonable to call that anti-Semitism.
Now, of course there’s also anti-whitism. Look at the way South Africa was demonized by the same people who had sympathy for Ho Chi Minh and Castro. And anti-whitism is more widespread and virulent than anti-Semitism.
But just because the media ignores anti-whitism, doesn’t mean you should deny that there is anti-Semitism. If some Jews are hypocritical about this, it doesn’t change these facts.
Makes 2+2=5 sound logical in comparison
As the years go by and the evidence continues to pile up for what we might call the iSteve worldview…
Somewhat related, this is how I regard the Middle East. It’s like the crucible that burns off every bit of liberal, progressivist dross that’s put into it. You can look at the region and just check off the iSteve-isms: you need a really powerful, aggressively secular government to make multiculturalism “work”; demography is destiny; on the list of priorities for sub-90 IQ rabble, self-rule is way down the line; polygamy and cousin marriage will cripple a society for many generations into the future. And on and on.
But everybody–from libertarians to neo-conservatives to the ex-hippy Marxists at The American Conservative and Unz.com–has to do backflips around the obvious to stay respectable. Consequently, there’s no good debate because everybody’s tripping over themselves to avoid crimethink.
Everything has a cause.
Slightly oiff topic, but reading the intro to Irving Krystol’s new collection of essays on the subject of Jews and Judaism written by his wife, Gertrude Himmelfarb (one of my favorite writers, btw, as is Krystol himself) I was struck by an anecdote she recounts. Krystol’s parents, like most Ashkenazi’s were orthodox Jews who emigrated from Eastern Europe. The first rabbi he met here in the U.S. counseled him to do to things: spit every time he passed a Christian church and fear the Gentiles. Krystol goes on to decry these remarks, saying that such fears are based on atavistic memories of the European past. Still, what struck me is the contempt this advice manifested for the dominant culture of the country to which Ashkenazis came (the spitting) as well as the fear, both of which continue to be manifested among certain not uninfluential segments of the Ashkenazi community. When part of the Ruling Class holds such feelings and opinions . . . well, it isn’t a healthy thing.
One other note: once you discount for the Holocaust, the degree to which European Jewry was persecuted in past centuries has been greatly exaggerated in terms of the absolute number of victims (measured in the low hundreds in the case of all the pogroms in the 19th century for example), while the special privileges and immunities the Jewish communities in Poland enjoyed are entirely overlooked or forgotten. Much better to be born a Jew than a peasant at almost any point in European history. It was only in comparison to the tiny fraction of the population who belonged to the nobility that the Jews suffered.
Thus this persecution complex is a reflexion of the self-centered world view of the Ashkenazis ancestors: it was always about them, not the general conditions of the societies in which they lived. Back then it was a world in which everybody was both exploited and exploiting with very few exceptions (nobility at the top, peasant children at the bottom) and perforce European Jewry were right in the middle of it all. They are ignorant of their own history in its context.
As for later events, they were much less consequential. The fabled Khmelnytsky Uprising was much less bloody than Jewish legend would have it:For a roughly contemporary parallel, here are the figures for Ireland during the Cromwellian Conquest:http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#European
The late 19th-early 20th century pogroms were very small things in comparison:http://necrometrics.com/20c30k.htm#Romanov
Interestingly, the pogroms that occurred during the Russian Civil War were far worse, even though they get less press. On page 365 of Atrocities, White notes that between 60,000 and 150,000 Jews were killed during this period, and he characterized it as the deadliest event for Jews between the Bar Kokhba revolt and the Holocaust. Of course, one can set this alongside the Armenian Genocide (353, White cites a Turkish document from the period that lists 972,000 Armenian deaths).
Frankly, one of problems with studying Jewish history is that too many historians view everything through the lens of the Holocaust.Replies: @Luke Lea, @Dave Pinsen
I suppose black widow spiders themselves aren’t responsible for my arachnophobia but I can’t help but think I wouldn’t be afraid of them if they weren’t venomous.
Slightly oiff topic, but reading the intro to Irving Krystol's new collection of essays on the subject of Jews and Judaism written by his wife, Gertrude Himmelfarb (one of my favorite writers, btw, as is Krystol himself) I was struck by an anecdote she recounts. Krystol's parents, like most Ashkenazi's were orthodox Jews who emigrated from Eastern Europe. The first rabbi he met here in the U.S. counseled him to do to things: spit every time he passed a Christian church and fear the Gentiles. Krystol goes on to decry these remarks, saying that such fears are based on atavistic memories of the European past. Still, what struck me is the contempt this advice manifested for the dominant culture of the country to which Ashkenazis came (the spitting) as well as the fear, both of which continue to be manifested among certain not uninfluential segments of the Ashkenazi community. When part of the Ruling Class holds such feelings and opinions . . . well, it isn't a healthy thing.
One other note: once you discount for the Holocaust, the degree to which European Jewry was persecuted in past centuries has been greatly exaggerated in terms of the absolute number of victims (measured in the low hundreds in the case of all the pogroms in the 19th century for example), while the special privileges and immunities the Jewish communities in Poland enjoyed are entirely overlooked or forgotten. Much better to be born a Jew than a peasant at almost any point in European history. It was only in comparison to the tiny fraction of the population who belonged to the nobility that the Jews suffered.
Thus this persecution complex is a reflexion of the self-centered world view of the Ashkenazis ancestors: it was always about them, not the general conditions of the societies in which they lived. Back then it was a world in which everybody was both exploited and exploiting with very few exceptions (nobility at the top, peasant children at the bottom) and perforce European Jewry were right in the middle of it all. They are ignorant of their own history in its context.Replies: @Luke Lea, @syonredux, @Anonymous
Tried to edit but Unz’s ridiculous five minute window cut me off!
What is Goldberg right about?
That the recent anti-Israel protests in Europe had nothing to do with the Gaza conflict?
The “universal and immutable rule”?
That the logical response to getting roughed-up by “Irish pogromists” is to go halfway round the globe to become a jailer of Palestinians?
That one can be a Zionist without living permanently in Zion, but rather earning fame and fortune in evil anti-Semitic goyische kopf America?
--
People may have all kinds of investments and sympathies. You do not do things like this
http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2014/07/anti-semitism-france
to random Jews living in Paris because of "Israel's actions in Gaza". Or, you do not do that if you have any sense of cause-and-effect. You do that because you loathe that population. That population cannot do much about it in the present tense, nor could they at any other time in the last 90 years. An aspect of that loathing is a reaction to serial humiliations at the hand of people you regard as subaltern according to an order of nature. The Jews living in the Sarcelles neighborhood cannot repair that. In fact, they cannot repair that in Tel Aviv, either, bar by cutting their own throat.
On a substantive point, what's gone on in Gaza is pretty penny ante in context. However, these things are magnified and reduced 1000x by the trick mirrors people employ which reflect their biases (biases manifest in all palaeo fora). With regard to that, if the paramilitaries in Gaza wish to live a quiet life, they might start by not diverting building materials to the task of constructing kidnap tunnels and they might quit firing off rockets at towns over the border and they might quit putting artillery pieces in hospital courtyards. They can actually improve their situation with minimal effort. The Jews in Sarcelles cannot do much about it.
the globe to become a jailer of Palestinians?
There's a criminal population in the West Bank and Gaza, and they belong in jail. That aside, you join the Army, you take up the post to which they assign you, whatever plans or aspirations you may have. My father did not join the service to shuffle paper in Sampson, N.Y., but that's what they put him to work doing.Replies: @Noah172
Irish pogromist? Ridiculous. More like very Irish not attractive to Jews bc too Celtic. De Valera was ro Nazi turning the Republic int a spy camp, Ike hated him, but that’s that.
However Israeli pounding Gaza in responding to rockets is nt the cause of anti semitism any more than anti ethnic Chinese riots in Vietnam were caused by China Vietnam frictions. Muslims in Europe many from Algeria or Pakistan care as much about the Palestinians as the Irish do Romanians. Its hatred of a smarter eople showng them up.
In that Goldberg is correct.
But crying wolf about White Irish anti semitism obscures the mutual Jewish and Goy risk from Muslims out to obliterate us all.
Slightly oiff topic, but reading the intro to Irving Krystol's new collection of essays on the subject of Jews and Judaism written by his wife, Gertrude Himmelfarb (one of my favorite writers, btw, as is Krystol himself) I was struck by an anecdote she recounts. Krystol's parents, like most Ashkenazi's were orthodox Jews who emigrated from Eastern Europe. The first rabbi he met here in the U.S. counseled him to do to things: spit every time he passed a Christian church and fear the Gentiles. Krystol goes on to decry these remarks, saying that such fears are based on atavistic memories of the European past. Still, what struck me is the contempt this advice manifested for the dominant culture of the country to which Ashkenazis came (the spitting) as well as the fear, both of which continue to be manifested among certain not uninfluential segments of the Ashkenazi community. When part of the Ruling Class holds such feelings and opinions . . . well, it isn't a healthy thing.
One other note: once you discount for the Holocaust, the degree to which European Jewry was persecuted in past centuries has been greatly exaggerated in terms of the absolute number of victims (measured in the low hundreds in the case of all the pogroms in the 19th century for example), while the special privileges and immunities the Jewish communities in Poland enjoyed are entirely overlooked or forgotten. Much better to be born a Jew than a peasant at almost any point in European history. It was only in comparison to the tiny fraction of the population who belonged to the nobility that the Jews suffered.
Thus this persecution complex is a reflexion of the self-centered world view of the Ashkenazis ancestors: it was always about them, not the general conditions of the societies in which they lived. Back then it was a world in which everybody was both exploited and exploiting with very few exceptions (nobility at the top, peasant children at the bottom) and perforce European Jewry were right in the middle of it all. They are ignorant of their own history in its context.Replies: @Luke Lea, @syonredux, @Anonymous
Pretty much true, although I would note that, relative to their numbers, the massacres that occurred in during the Crusades and the Black Death were pretty severe. On the other hand, the anti-Cathar Albigensian Crusade is frequently estimated to have cost a million lives, and the Cathars, unlike the Jews, actually were wiped out.
As for later events, they were much less consequential. The fabled Khmelnytsky Uprising was much less bloody than Jewish legend would have it:
For a roughly contemporary parallel, here are the figures for Ireland during the Cromwellian Conquest:
http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#European
The late 19th-early 20th century pogroms were very small things in comparison:
http://necrometrics.com/20c30k.htm#Romanov
Interestingly, the pogroms that occurred during the Russian Civil War were far worse, even though they get less press. On page 365 of Atrocities, White notes that between 60,000 and 150,000 Jews were killed during this period, and he characterized it as the deadliest event for Jews between the Bar Kokhba revolt and the Holocaust. Of course, one can set this alongside the Armenian Genocide (353, White cites a Turkish document from the period that lists 972,000 Armenian deaths).
Frankly, one of problems with studying Jewish history is that too many historians view everything through the lens of the Holocaust.
IIRC, he spends just a paragraph or two on the Holocaust.Replies: @syonredux
Members of Germany’s Muslim immigrant community were chanting “Hamas, Jews to gas!” at a demonstration. Bio-Germans wouldn’t,.
http://alcalde.texasexes.org/2012/02/star-power/
“As for his relationship with UT, Tyson claims he’s moved on. “I don’t hold a grudge, and I don’t blame the department for kicking me out. I might have done the same thing in their position,” he says.
But at other moments, it’s clear that he’s still raw about Texas, almost 30 years later. “When I get mail from the Texas Exes, it goes straight in the trash. Why should I believe in an institution that didn’t believe in me?”
That’s the way Tyson sees it: UT didn’t believe in him, while Harvard, Columbia, and Princeton did. “When I look at my life, the tracks of my success take a detour around Texas,” he says. “It’s the only place where I didn’t succeed, and I’m still figuring out what that means.””
‘Believe in me’?
He admits he was a bad student at UT but then bitches UT didn’t ‘believe’ in him.
Meaning what?
"Astronomy professor Craig Wheeler remembers Tyson: “Research was not his strength. He was never going to solve any major scientific problems. But I knew he was going to do something big, because he had charisma. He’s warm and funny, but he also has serious backbone, ambition, confidence—and that’s taken him far.”
The Doctrine of Undeserved Victim-hood is a useful tool for those who would maintain their culture within a larger group that they are dependent on (parasitism.)
Few realize that each gene pool works best with the culture that it has co-developed with and that the more successful gene pools (in terms of longevity) are so because of a genetically determined blinkered refusal to adapt to another culture.
Since it's a universal and immutable law that Jews aren't in any way to blame for black perception of Jews and blacks aren't in any way to blame for Jewish perception of blacks, do we just assume that both groups are both utterly blameless AND utterly blame-worthy for their prejudices?
Hard paradox to swallow.Replies: @AnAnon
whitey is obviously responsible.
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/09/22/how-dna-testing-can-reveal-jewish-ancestry-and-bolster-the-zionist-narrative/
Isn’t this gene-atavistic or genatavistic?
How exactly is this supposed to work? I mean if I took a dna test, and found out my father wasn't who I thought he was, and I am half jewish? What changes? I'm still sick and tired of the position of most of them on immigration, and I think the neocons are a bunch of idiots.
Actually if the neocons are all secretly zionists who only care about Israel, well they suck at that too.
Plus to my way of thinking, they have some really bizarre notions, or at least turns of phrase. I guess it creeps into a closed society, kind of like gay lisp.
I refer of course to the "blood" meme. I think it was someone on this site who noted the fascination Jews had with this word. Not just "Libel," but "Blood Libel." He listed a few other things as well. If you start looking for the word, it pops up a lot. You can form a few half baked Freudian theories about that, but why bother?
Anyway... whatever virtues they have, whatever accomplishments I wouldn't be one on a bet. And somehow turning out to have genes associated with Jews would change things not one iota.
You know I kind of wonder how much real life experience you guys have sometime. I mean it is possible to have loyalty or a belief in something, even to the point of being ready to die for it regardless of how many genes you share with fellow members.
Look at street gangs, military units, a few other places. Not morally equivalent, but the "band of brothers" effect.
Just saying that my asabiyah with the culture I grew up with, would outweigh anything silly like half my genes coming from some shtletl or whatever it was called in Poland. Put an ice cold Pabst and a cigarette in my hand, and pass some d*$mn pork rinds. Not gonna do zionism or screw everyone over with immigration.
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/09/partyism-in-america-is-getting-worse.html#comment-158321183
At least everyone gets to eat beans.
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/goldberg-israels-semitism
So, you find self parody amusing eh, Steve ?
this is what the authorities will have playing non stop in your reeducation chamber,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K4s7cV4Us4&list=RD-K4s7cV4Us4#t=7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dwGuF9umTo
Note: don't think that, just because these professors are from Pittsburgh, that they are, to quote Bobby "The Brain" Heenan, ham-and-eggers. Pittsburgh is generally recognized as having the best philosophers of science in the world, and has for a while now. (And no, philosophers of science are not dummies just because they're not scientists. Tim Maudlin and David Z. Albert are pretty damn smart.)Replies: @candid_observer
This is a threadjack, but I’d be curious what Steve has to say about this video from the University of Pittsburgh’s Department of the History and Philosophy of Science (HPS):
I took a look at the video.
What’s to say about it, other than the idiot professor in it repeats every fallacy known to man on the subject of race?
Some philosophers, even with grand titles, are morons.
Great work if you can get it, I guess.
That's just the thing: I don't think they're idiots there (though I don't know much about that professor in question; perhaps she's not very impressive), but you're right, that video is just conventional wisdom down the line, which I think makes it a useful little digest to reference.
OT
According to this comment, everyone’s favorite bellicose, “anti-white propagandist agitator” Tim Wise lives in a census tract that is “97% white and ZERO PERCENT BLACK”.
Raise your hand if you’re surprised by that info.
Really is it any surprise you don't see well known white or Jewish liberals who live in Detroit or the black sections of Los Angeles, Oakland. After all liberals are closet realists in some respects. They'll never admit it short of turning lose a cartel torturer on them that minorities aren't very pleasant to be around. Furthermore they are well aware that what they promote in terms of social engineering and agit-prop against whites are merely tools used to crush white society and the family structure which they hate with a passion.
Before you can create a new society you have to destroy the old. That's what its all about.
That the recent anti-Israel protests in Europe had nothing to do with the Gaza conflict?
The "universal and immutable rule"?
That the logical response to getting roughed-up by "Irish pogromists" is to go halfway round the globe to become a jailer of Palestinians?
That one can be a Zionist without living permanently in Zion, but rather earning fame and fortune in evil anti-Semitic goyische kopf America?Replies: @Art Deco
Goldberg’s statement of principle requires some qualification, but that’s all.
—
People may have all kinds of investments and sympathies. You do not do things like this
http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2014/07/anti-semitism-france
to random Jews living in Paris because of “Israel’s actions in Gaza”. Or, you do not do that if you have any sense of cause-and-effect. You do that because you loathe that population. That population cannot do much about it in the present tense, nor could they at any other time in the last 90 years. An aspect of that loathing is a reaction to serial humiliations at the hand of people you regard as subaltern according to an order of nature. The Jews living in the Sarcelles neighborhood cannot repair that. In fact, they cannot repair that in Tel Aviv, either, bar by cutting their own throat.
On a substantive point, what’s gone on in Gaza is pretty penny ante in context. However, these things are magnified and reduced 1000x by the trick mirrors people employ which reflect their biases (biases manifest in all palaeo fora). With regard to that, if the paramilitaries in Gaza wish to live a quiet life, they might start by not diverting building materials to the task of constructing kidnap tunnels and they might quit firing off rockets at towns over the border and they might quit putting artillery pieces in hospital courtyards. They can actually improve their situation with minimal effort. The Jews in Sarcelles cannot do much about it.
the globe to become a jailer of Palestinians?
There’s a criminal population in the West Bank and Gaza, and they belong in jail. That aside, you join the Army, you take up the post to which they assign you, whatever plans or aspirations you may have. My father did not join the service to shuffle paper in Sampson, N.Y., but that’s what they put him to work doing.
Fine, then: qualify it. Goldberg stated unambiguously that negative views of a racial, national, religious, or sexual group can never be legitimately grounded in that group's actions, but rather arise solely from bigotry. He then named some particular groups (including, of course, his own) whose actions, in his view, cannot be fairly said to have given rise to ill will among other groups. What amendment do you propose? Bear in mind the comments of others in this thread who have pointed out the illogic and hypocrisy of Goldberg's rather un-nuanced and presumptuous statement.
That aside, you join the Army, you take up the post to which they assign you, whatever plans or aspirations you may have
"The" Army? There is more than one on this planet.
Goldberg is a US citizen by birth. By his own account, his reaction to harassment by Irish-ancestry Americans on the playground was to embrace the political cause of Zionism, move to a distant foreign country to enlist in its military, and thus participate in its military actions (which meant in his case penal duty) against a population with no connection to the people who had harassed Goldberg in his youth. Rational to you? Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O'Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.Replies: @Art Deco, @vinteuil
Whiskey, was this mutual Jewish and Goy risk from muslims present in 750 AD Spain? What about in 1500 AD Greece?
According to this comment, everyone's favorite bellicose, "anti-white propagandist agitator" Tim Wise lives in a census tract that is "97% white and ZERO PERCENT BLACK".
Raise your hand if you're surprised by that info.Replies: @rod1963
Wise and company live by the old saying that goes like this ‘Do what I say, not what I do’.
Really is it any surprise you don’t see well known white or Jewish liberals who live in Detroit or the black sections of Los Angeles, Oakland. After all liberals are closet realists in some respects. They’ll never admit it short of turning lose a cartel torturer on them that minorities aren’t very pleasant to be around. Furthermore they are well aware that what they promote in terms of social engineering and agit-prop against whites are merely tools used to crush white society and the family structure which they hate with a passion.
Before you can create a new society you have to destroy the old. That’s what its all about.
--
People may have all kinds of investments and sympathies. You do not do things like this
http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2014/07/anti-semitism-france
to random Jews living in Paris because of "Israel's actions in Gaza". Or, you do not do that if you have any sense of cause-and-effect. You do that because you loathe that population. That population cannot do much about it in the present tense, nor could they at any other time in the last 90 years. An aspect of that loathing is a reaction to serial humiliations at the hand of people you regard as subaltern according to an order of nature. The Jews living in the Sarcelles neighborhood cannot repair that. In fact, they cannot repair that in Tel Aviv, either, bar by cutting their own throat.
On a substantive point, what's gone on in Gaza is pretty penny ante in context. However, these things are magnified and reduced 1000x by the trick mirrors people employ which reflect their biases (biases manifest in all palaeo fora). With regard to that, if the paramilitaries in Gaza wish to live a quiet life, they might start by not diverting building materials to the task of constructing kidnap tunnels and they might quit firing off rockets at towns over the border and they might quit putting artillery pieces in hospital courtyards. They can actually improve their situation with minimal effort. The Jews in Sarcelles cannot do much about it.
the globe to become a jailer of Palestinians?
There's a criminal population in the West Bank and Gaza, and they belong in jail. That aside, you join the Army, you take up the post to which they assign you, whatever plans or aspirations you may have. My father did not join the service to shuffle paper in Sampson, N.Y., but that's what they put him to work doing.Replies: @Noah172
Goldberg’s statement of principle requires some qualification, but that’s all
Fine, then: qualify it. Goldberg stated unambiguously that negative views of a racial, national, religious, or sexual group can never be legitimately grounded in that group’s actions, but rather arise solely from bigotry. He then named some particular groups (including, of course, his own) whose actions, in his view, cannot be fairly said to have given rise to ill will among other groups. What amendment do you propose? Bear in mind the comments of others in this thread who have pointed out the illogic and hypocrisy of Goldberg’s rather un-nuanced and presumptuous statement.
That aside, you join the Army, you take up the post to which they assign you, whatever plans or aspirations you may have
“The” Army? There is more than one on this planet.
Goldberg is a US citizen by birth. By his own account, his reaction to harassment by Irish-ancestry Americans on the playground was to embrace the political cause of Zionism, move to a distant foreign country to enlist in its military, and thus participate in its military actions (which meant in his case penal duty) against a population with no connection to the people who had harassed Goldberg in his youth. Rational to you? Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O’Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens.
Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O’Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.
Goldberg was assigned to guard duty, as was my grandfather during the 1st World War. It's exceedingly doubtful the personnel apparat in either Army screened recruits according to a history of playground trouble twenty years earlier or that either volunteered for guard duty. This is not that difficult to understand, but you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not).
--
One does get the impression that people here are a stew of resentments which they then project on everyone else in the world.Replies: @Noah172, @syonredux
I rarely see anybody get the better of you in argument - but Noah172 has just done so.
I look forward to your response.Replies: @Noah172
,
That’s just the thing: I don’t think they’re idiots there (though I don’t know much about that professor in question; perhaps she’s not very impressive), but you’re right, that video is just conventional wisdom down the line, which I think makes it a useful little digest to reference.
Jefferry Goldburg? You say a former IDF prison guard. That’s something like a Romanian SS prison guard ain’t it? He writes for the Atlantic magazine.Hmmm. That’s about as exciting and enriching as reading the old Dick, Jane and Spot book of the 1950’s.Bet he votes twice. Once for Netanyaho and once for Peter King.A true blue American.
@ candid observer – yeah, that video is just sad. It’s hard to believe that the once great philosophy dept at Pittsburgh has really descended to this sort of stuff. But there it is.
Jefferry Goldburg? You say a former IDF prison guard. That’s something like a Romanian SS prison guard ain’t it? He writes for the Atlantic magazine.Hmmm. That’s about as exciting and enriching as reading the old Dick, Jane and Spot book of the 1950’s. I can see him now strutting around with a riding crop in starched IDF regalia. What a mench!
You, know, Mr. Sailer, you might ask yourself why your comment boxes have turned into a landfill.Replies: @vinteuil
Israeli Supreme Court gives the OK to housing discrimination:
http://www.aurdip.fr/contradicting-its-own-ruling.html?lang=fr
Not your finest moment, Steve.
The Muslims have demonstrated centuries-old animus towards Jews. It’s in the Koran. They didn’t need Gaza to hate them.
The white Europeans aren’t a lot better.
can be tiresome but well worth it.
The Jews have demonstrated centuries-old animus towards Gentiles. It’s in the Talmud. They didn’t need Auschwitz to hate them.
OT
The BBC continue to press for World War TT
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29211526
Fine, then: qualify it. Goldberg stated unambiguously that negative views of a racial, national, religious, or sexual group can never be legitimately grounded in that group's actions, but rather arise solely from bigotry. He then named some particular groups (including, of course, his own) whose actions, in his view, cannot be fairly said to have given rise to ill will among other groups. What amendment do you propose? Bear in mind the comments of others in this thread who have pointed out the illogic and hypocrisy of Goldberg's rather un-nuanced and presumptuous statement.
That aside, you join the Army, you take up the post to which they assign you, whatever plans or aspirations you may have
"The" Army? There is more than one on this planet.
Goldberg is a US citizen by birth. By his own account, his reaction to harassment by Irish-ancestry Americans on the playground was to embrace the political cause of Zionism, move to a distant foreign country to enlist in its military, and thus participate in its military actions (which meant in his case penal duty) against a population with no connection to the people who had harassed Goldberg in his youth. Rational to you? Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O'Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.Replies: @Art Deco, @vinteuil
Goldberg has affinities, as we all do. In some measure, his affinities have been honed by conflict, which is unsurprising. It’s a contrivance on your part to say his affinities were caused by playground fights to the exclusion of all other reasons in the world you adhere to people and places and diversions. Goldberg went abroad as a consequence of his affinities. There is much to do in Israel. You build a life there among other Jews.
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens.
Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O’Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.
Goldberg was assigned to guard duty, as was my grandfather during the 1st World War. It’s exceedingly doubtful the personnel apparat in either Army screened recruits according to a history of playground trouble twenty years earlier or that either volunteered for guard duty. This is not that difficult to understand, but you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not).
—
One does get the impression that people here are a stew of resentments which they then project on everyone else in the world.
Love the euphemism. He didn't go to Israel on a Birthright trip. He served in its armed forces -- not the armed forces of his actual country (staffed as they are with evil goyische kopfs from the flyover states).
There is much to do in Israel. You build a life there among other Jews.
Goldberg didn't do that. After his Israeli Army stint, he came back to America, land of the "pogromists". Guess it wasn't so bad after all, not that he has stopped kvetching about the temerity of those dumb goyim who disagree about US support of Israel or other political causes of Goldberg's.
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens
No, he did something far more significant: enlist in the Israeli military.
you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not
You persist in being either daft or disingenuous. I figure you have an above-average IQ, so the latter is more likely. I made no disparagement of prison guarding per se. I disparaged:
Goldberg's service, as a US citizen, in a foreign military
Goldberg's misdirecting his unresolved bitterness for American goyim toward a defenseless (in the context of a prison) third party
Goldberg's return to the US, with the expectation that he would lose none of his rights and privileges as a citizen despite his obvious fealty to a foreign power, coupled with fury at any suggestion that he, and similarly fervent Zionist Jews, favor Israel over the country of his and their nominal citizenshipReplies: @Art Deco, @anon
http://www.aurdip.fr/contradicting-its-own-ruling.html?lang=frReplies: @Art Deco, @Hepp, @Dave Pinsen
It’s called ‘free association’, which was the law in the United States, once upon a time.
You say a former IDF prison guard. That’s something like a Romanian SS prison guard ain’t it?
You, know, Mr. Sailer, you might ask yourself why your comment boxes have turned into a landfill.
Do you know of a better combox?Replies: @Noah172, @Art Deco
Fine, then: qualify it. Goldberg stated unambiguously that negative views of a racial, national, religious, or sexual group can never be legitimately grounded in that group's actions, but rather arise solely from bigotry. He then named some particular groups (including, of course, his own) whose actions, in his view, cannot be fairly said to have given rise to ill will among other groups. What amendment do you propose? Bear in mind the comments of others in this thread who have pointed out the illogic and hypocrisy of Goldberg's rather un-nuanced and presumptuous statement.
That aside, you join the Army, you take up the post to which they assign you, whatever plans or aspirations you may have
"The" Army? There is more than one on this planet.
Goldberg is a US citizen by birth. By his own account, his reaction to harassment by Irish-ancestry Americans on the playground was to embrace the political cause of Zionism, move to a distant foreign country to enlist in its military, and thus participate in its military actions (which meant in his case penal duty) against a population with no connection to the people who had harassed Goldberg in his youth. Rational to you? Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O'Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.Replies: @Art Deco, @vinteuil
I rarely see anybody get the better of you in argument – but Noah172 has just done so.
I look forward to your response.
Isn't this gene-atavistic or genatavistic?Replies: @Sunbeam
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/09/22/how-dna-testing-can-reveal-jewish-ancestry-and-bolster-the-zionist-narrative/
How exactly is this supposed to work? I mean if I took a dna test, and found out my father wasn’t who I thought he was, and I am half jewish? What changes? I’m still sick and tired of the position of most of them on immigration, and I think the neocons are a bunch of idiots.
Actually if the neocons are all secretly zionists who only care about Israel, well they suck at that too.
Plus to my way of thinking, they have some really bizarre notions, or at least turns of phrase. I guess it creeps into a closed society, kind of like gay lisp.
I refer of course to the “blood” meme. I think it was someone on this site who noted the fascination Jews had with this word. Not just “Libel,” but “Blood Libel.” He listed a few other things as well. If you start looking for the word, it pops up a lot. You can form a few half baked Freudian theories about that, but why bother?
Anyway… whatever virtues they have, whatever accomplishments I wouldn’t be one on a bet. And somehow turning out to have genes associated with Jews would change things not one iota.
You know I kind of wonder how much real life experience you guys have sometime. I mean it is possible to have loyalty or a belief in something, even to the point of being ready to die for it regardless of how many genes you share with fellow members.
Look at street gangs, military units, a few other places. Not morally equivalent, but the “band of brothers” effect.
Just saying that my asabiyah with the culture I grew up with, would outweigh anything silly like half my genes coming from some shtletl or whatever it was called in Poland. Put an ice cold Pabst and a cigarette in my hand, and pass some d*$mn pork rinds. Not gonna do zionism or screw everyone over with immigration.
I rarely see anybody get the better of you in argument - but Noah172 has just done so.
I look forward to your response.Replies: @Noah172
If I may toot my own horn, I’ve gotten the better of Art Deco many a time over at Rod Dreher’s blog.
You, know, Mr. Sailer, you might ask yourself why your comment boxes have turned into a landfill.Replies: @vinteuil
@ Art Deco
Do you know of a better combox?
Yes.
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens.
Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O’Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.
Goldberg was assigned to guard duty, as was my grandfather during the 1st World War. It's exceedingly doubtful the personnel apparat in either Army screened recruits according to a history of playground trouble twenty years earlier or that either volunteered for guard duty. This is not that difficult to understand, but you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not).
--
One does get the impression that people here are a stew of resentments which they then project on everyone else in the world.Replies: @Noah172, @syonredux
Goldberg went abroad as a consequence of his affinities
Love the euphemism. He didn’t go to Israel on a Birthright trip. He served in its armed forces — not the armed forces of his actual country (staffed as they are with evil goyische kopfs from the flyover states).
There is much to do in Israel. You build a life there among other Jews.
Goldberg didn’t do that. After his Israeli Army stint, he came back to America, land of the “pogromists”. Guess it wasn’t so bad after all, not that he has stopped kvetching about the temerity of those dumb goyim who disagree about US support of Israel or other political causes of Goldberg’s.
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens
No, he did something far more significant: enlist in the Israeli military.
you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not
You persist in being either daft or disingenuous. I figure you have an above-average IQ, so the latter is more likely. I made no disparagement of prison guarding per se. I disparaged:
Goldberg’s service, as a US citizen, in a foreign military
Goldberg’s misdirecting his unresolved bitterness for American goyim toward a defenseless (in the context of a prison) third party
Goldberg’s return to the US, with the expectation that he would lose none of his rights and privileges as a citizen despite his obvious fealty to a foreign power, coupled with fury at any suggestion that he, and similarly fervent Zionist Jews, favor Israel over the country of his and their nominal citizenship
For an ordinary person, Noah172, there is not much to discuss here. The problem you have with Goldberg has little to do with Goldberg and much to do with your own interiors.Replies: @Anon
The Muslims have demonstrated centuries-old animus towards Jews. It's in the Koran. They didn't need Gaza to hate them.
The white Europeans aren't a lot better.Replies: @Harold, @Primus Pilus, @Newdist
But why is it in the Koran? Was it just handed down from on high or something?
Now, of course there's also anti-whitism. Look at the way South Africa was demonized by the same people who had sympathy for Ho Chi Minh and Castro. And anti-whitism is more widespread and virulent than anti-Semitism.
But just because the media ignores anti-whitism, doesn't mean you should deny that there is anti-Semitism. If some Jews are hypocritical about this, it doesn't change these facts.Replies: @Harold
Obviously people don’t care that we treat North Korea and ISIS like friends and allies despite their bad behaviour. But as soon as Israel is percieved to misbehave, people are up in arms! It’s anti-Semitism I tell you!
Not necessarily. The muslims seemed to get along well with Jews during their occupations of Spain and Greece. In both cases you had an outside muslim force conquer a Christian land and make common cause with Jews to help run and administer the place. And many Jews even today seem to think that muslim Spain was some sort of golden age. So obviously the two groups can work together, especially when their common enemy is Christians.
Gaza and modern Israel, however, are a thorn in the muslims’ side. To them Israel was created by outside Christian nations who carved out a piece of muslim territory to be a Jewish state. That is unacceptable, and so long as it exists, will cause friction between Jews and muslms.
But that doesn’t preclude Jews and muslims from coming together to make common cause against the Christians. They’ve done it before, and probably will again.
Do you know of a better combox?Replies: @Noah172, @Art Deco
Art Deco makes the same complaints over at Rod Dreher’s blog. He even demands that Rod exclude commenters whom he, AD, dislikes especially (such as yours truly).
I have not participated in his fora for months and never had any ex parte communications with Dreher on any subject. Much less did I have communications concerning you, whom I only vaguely remember. Nor did I ever issue any 'demands' to Dreher, and it would have been rum to do so. I have no influence on his thinking, he and I in the last dozen years have never had a congenial exchange on any issue, and he repeatedly deleted my remarks at his forum out of esoteric personal pique and eventually had me banned from all fora at The American Conservative (or some intern in his employ forwarded my comments to some uber editor who banned me).Replies: @Anon
Love the euphemism. He didn't go to Israel on a Birthright trip. He served in its armed forces -- not the armed forces of his actual country (staffed as they are with evil goyische kopfs from the flyover states).
There is much to do in Israel. You build a life there among other Jews.
Goldberg didn't do that. After his Israeli Army stint, he came back to America, land of the "pogromists". Guess it wasn't so bad after all, not that he has stopped kvetching about the temerity of those dumb goyim who disagree about US support of Israel or other political causes of Goldberg's.
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens
No, he did something far more significant: enlist in the Israeli military.
you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not
You persist in being either daft or disingenuous. I figure you have an above-average IQ, so the latter is more likely. I made no disparagement of prison guarding per se. I disparaged:
Goldberg's service, as a US citizen, in a foreign military
Goldberg's misdirecting his unresolved bitterness for American goyim toward a defenseless (in the context of a prison) third party
Goldberg's return to the US, with the expectation that he would lose none of his rights and privileges as a citizen despite his obvious fealty to a foreign power, coupled with fury at any suggestion that he, and similarly fervent Zionist Jews, favor Israel over the country of his and their nominal citizenshipReplies: @Art Deco, @anon
I do not look at Goldberg’s life and doings through a particular lens, nor would any ordinary person. There was nothing particularly unusual about his upbringing nor anything deplorable about what he did. He’s not Lori Berenson making himself the amanuensis to a criminal enterprise. He’s gone through a mildly interesting personal odyssey.
For an ordinary person, Noah172, there is not much to discuss here. The problem you have with Goldberg has little to do with Goldberg and much to do with your own interiors.
To most Americans, his upbringing and choices are actually very unusual.
Do you know of a better combox?Replies: @Noah172, @Art Deco
Do you know of a better combox?
Yes.
Come again?
I have not participated in his fora for months and never had any ex parte communications with Dreher on any subject. Much less did I have communications concerning you, whom I only vaguely remember. Nor did I ever issue any ‘demands’ to Dreher, and it would have been rum to do so. I have no influence on his thinking, he and I in the last dozen years have never had a congenial exchange on any issue, and he repeatedly deleted my remarks at his forum out of esoteric personal pique and eventually had me banned from all fora at The American Conservative (or some intern in his employ forwarded my comments to some uber editor who banned me).
I've found Dreher to be quick lacking in both intelligence and insight. I can't really tell whether he's a conservative, but if he were a little less intelligent, he'd fit right into the lumpen intelligentsia category this blog's proprietor just invented.
Really, it would be impossible to make up the kinds of logic destroying statements that clowns like Goldberg make up on a daily basis….
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens.
Sounds like little Goldberg was too weak and scared to fight back against O’Hara and Co. on the playgrounds of Long Island, but young adult Goldberg was tough enough to bark orders and point guns at Palestinian inmates who were in no position to resist. Nothing admirable there.
Goldberg was assigned to guard duty, as was my grandfather during the 1st World War. It's exceedingly doubtful the personnel apparat in either Army screened recruits according to a history of playground trouble twenty years earlier or that either volunteered for guard duty. This is not that difficult to understand, but you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not).
--
One does get the impression that people here are a stew of resentments which they then project on everyone else in the world.Replies: @Noah172, @syonredux
Which is fine. He made his choice. The problem,though, is that he has not stuck by it.
I can imagine Caroline Glick making that complaint. I'm not sure why it's of interest here. I can imagine that his grandmother disapproved of him marrying a goy as well, but I would not make an issue of that either.Replies: @syonredux
The Limerick pogrom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_Boycott
Anti-semitism among Irish Roman Catholics used to be – maybe still is – common and nasty. It infected even my Irish grandfather, who was in every other way a decent and charming fellow. On the other hand, we also have family experience of a Roman Catholic school instructing its pupils to hate Protestants, so you could argue that Jews weren’t singled out for nastiness.
Every political party- every one- condemned that "pogrom"- street kids throwing rocks at the behest of a local priest, who ended up being sent to the Philipines as a result of his antics (the right word). The hierarchy punished him, other priests shunned him. No Jews were killed. The public was outraged. What more do you want? Did you even read the link you added? If you have any real interest in this, go read Cormac O'Grada.
"Anti-semitism among Irish Roman Catholics used to be - maybe still is - common and nasty."
With a very liberal definition of anti-semitism, you could be right on the former, but never on the latter.
"we also have family experience of a Roman Catholic school instructing its pupils to hate Protestants"
What world did you live in? I'm waiting to see, given your imagination, "priest-ridden" in your next comments. And ye talk about them whinging with the victim card.Replies: @dearieme
Love the euphemism. He didn't go to Israel on a Birthright trip. He served in its armed forces -- not the armed forces of his actual country (staffed as they are with evil goyische kopfs from the flyover states).
There is much to do in Israel. You build a life there among other Jews.
Goldberg didn't do that. After his Israeli Army stint, he came back to America, land of the "pogromists". Guess it wasn't so bad after all, not that he has stopped kvetching about the temerity of those dumb goyim who disagree about US support of Israel or other political causes of Goldberg's.
What he did not do was read the newspaper about the latest round of violence in the Near East and then go smashing the shop windows of falafel eateries in Queens
No, he did something far more significant: enlist in the Israeli military.
you persist in refusing to understand it (and in pretending there is something dishonorable about being a prison guard; there is not
You persist in being either daft or disingenuous. I figure you have an above-average IQ, so the latter is more likely. I made no disparagement of prison guarding per se. I disparaged:
Goldberg's service, as a US citizen, in a foreign military
Goldberg's misdirecting his unresolved bitterness for American goyim toward a defenseless (in the context of a prison) third party
Goldberg's return to the US, with the expectation that he would lose none of his rights and privileges as a citizen despite his obvious fealty to a foreign power, coupled with fury at any suggestion that he, and similarly fervent Zionist Jews, favor Israel over the country of his and their nominal citizenshipReplies: @Art Deco, @anon
America has a long and proud history of gentiles joining foreign militaries in support of honourable causes. Many Americans joined the British military in both World Wars before America’s entry. Americans have joined the French Foreign Legion, where today they fight Taliban in Afghanistan and Al Qaeda in Mali. American citizens formed the bulk of the military of the independent Republic of Texas and secured its freedom. Hundreds of Vietnam vets heroically fought for the freedom of Rhodesia against Mugabe’s guerrillas. And, of course, our own freedom was partially won by volunteers from foreign countries like Poland and Prussia. Israel is not an enemy to the United States. Serving in a non-enemy foreign army has never been a cause of approbation in America.
Which is fine. He made his choice. The problem,though, is that he has not stuck by it.
I can imagine Caroline Glick making that complaint. I’m not sure why it’s of interest here. I can imagine that his grandmother disapproved of him marrying a goy as well, but I would not make an issue of that either.
-what’s gone on in Gaza is pretty penny ante-
Prolific commenter considers hundreds of dead children to be “penny ante’. That says a lot.
Goldberg’s claims about being bullied by Irish kids is probably just a self serving lie. Maybe he got a thrill out of torturing Arab prisoners. Prison conditions for Arabs over there are known to be hideous and a human rights disgrace. Many Israelis themselves have protested the inhuman conditions there. But that’s just “penny ante” to some commenters who are going on to their thousandth comment.
There's a six figure death toll in Syria as we speak, not to mention what's going on in Iraq. There is nothing that prevents Hamas from reaching a modus vivendi with Israel; they just do not feel like it.Replies: @fnn
I had a good laugh stomping on Art Deco in the past
I’ve sated my bloodlust for now though – these days I just skip past all his posts. No energy or time for these things. Perhaps regrettable.
He should change his username. I actually like art deco
I don't remember you.
Your use of the word "stomping" to mean "being stepped on" is a little idiosyncratic.
It’s an immutable and universal law that anti-white feelings could not be based on whatever whites may have done. They’re just odious and noxious anti-whitism.
Anyone want to guess if this guy is going to be arrested in Argentina in 2040 and tried for war crimes in Palestinian Camps?
Jeffrey Goldberg
Rahm Emanuel
I didn’t bother to read the whole thing looking for a mention of his service in the American armed forces though the words or phrases “army,” “navy,” “air force,” “marines,” and “coast guard” do not appear in the article.
That’s two prominent American-born Jews in the American political-media complex under the age of 55 who served in the Israeli Defense Forces. I for one would be interested to know how many prominent Jewish journalists born in America after WWII have served in the American armed forces, and how many have served in the IDF.
Heck, I’d like to know how many Jews born in America after WWII have served in the American armed forces, and how many have served in the Israeli military.
P.S., apropos of I dunno, Wiki sez:
Does that mean uncle Auerbach started it? I ask because I strongly suspect it would be “killed by Arab terrorists” or “killed by Arab” (something bad here) if the Arabs had started it.
Following the cites at WIki, the NYT offers no more info:
Which only confirms my suspicions. I can’t think of any reason for the Times to skip over such a juicy story, except that the details are embarrasing to Rahmbo.
Haaretz even leaves out the Arabs:
I ran down a couple of links,
Rense (anti-semitic conspiracy theorist site) had this to say:
And Mondo Weiss added little else, except that Ben, Rahmbo’s dad and Emanuel’s brother, was in the Irgun (Jewish terrorist organization).
Yep, sounds to me like uncle Auerbach started some shit with Arabs and got himself killed in a street fight.
I'm not sure why a political journalist who has no reputation for ill-behavior is lumped in the same category with a politician know to be aggressive, rude, and spectacularly corrupt. Goldberg's never been in politics and Emmanuel has no history as a journalist. They lived in the same city for about 10 years, but is their any indication they met even once? About 65% of the men born during the years running from 1927 to 1938 had some sort of military service. For the cohorts born from about 1939 to about 1953, it would be around about 45%. For cohorts born after 1953, I believe around 12%. You might be able to use Sociological Abstracts to locate articles on military service among Jews; then again you might not. Up until fairly recently, there were not many American Jews living in Israel, so I doubt you're going to find much in the way of a history of IDF service.
Jeffrey GoldbergRahm EmanuelI didn't bother to read the whole thing looking for a mention of his service in the American armed forces though the words or phrases "army," "navy," "air force," "marines," and "coast guard" do not appear in the article.
That's two prominent American-born Jews in the American political-media complex under the age of 55 who served in the Israeli Defense Forces. I for one would be interested to know how many prominent Jewish journalists born in America after WWII have served in the American armed forces, and how many have served in the IDF.
Heck, I'd like to know how many Jews born in America after WWII have served in the American armed forces, and how many have served in the Israeli military.
P.S., apropos of I dunno, Wiki sez:Does that mean uncle Auerbach started it? I ask because I strongly suspect it would be "killed by Arab terrorists" or "killed by Arab" (something bad here) if the Arabs had started it.
Following the cites at WIki, the NYT offers no more info:Which only confirms my suspicions. I can't think of any reason for the Times to skip over such a juicy story, except that the details are embarrasing to Rahmbo.
Haaretz even leaves out the Arabs:I ran down a couple of links,
Rense (anti-semitic conspiracy theorist site) had this to say:And Mondo Weiss added little else, except that Ben, Rahmbo's dad and Emanuel's brother, was in the Irgun (Jewish terrorist organization).
Yep, sounds to me like uncle Auerbach started some shit with Arabs and got himself killed in a street fight.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Art Deco
Mark Helprin, the fine novelist whose book “Winter’s Tale” recently flopped as a movie, served in Israel. He wrote Bob Dole’s much-admired speech announcing his run for the Presidency in 1996. Zev Chafets, the Detroit journalist who wrote “Devil’s Night” about Coleman Young’s destruction of Detroit, was Menachem Begin’s press secretary.
In general, Americans who take government jobs in Israel tend to be well to the right of the average American Jew. They are, by nature, loyalists.
That's not true of Jeffrey Goldberg, who is AFAIK a standard liberal Jew on domestic US politics. Even on Israel, he poses as someone more moderate and thoughtful than those naughty Republican Jews.
And then there's Rahm Israel Emmanuel; the banker Stanley Fischer; Democratic strategist Stanley Greenberg (who did campaign work for Israeli Labour): all in the American Jewish liberal mainstream.
And, oh my goodness, I didn't know that about Helprin. Shame on Dole and whoever else has employed Helprin.Replies: @Art Deco, @Dave Pinsen
In general, the American Jews who go to Israel to serve are guys who like being on a team. They’re loyalists. They’re mostly guys I wouldn’t mind have on my team, America, rather than off on the other side of the earth fighting for some other country’s team because they tend to be good at what they do. But these days nobody is supposed to mention their disloyalty, so they have no reason to feel embarrassed about it.
Liberals aren’t the only ones. If you go by a strict reading of the word “prejudice”, then Goldberg is technically correct by definition: if you’ve pre-judged a group, then subsequent actions by that group aren’t the cause of your views on the group, since you already had those views previously.
What Goldberg’s phrasing elides, though, is that individual opinions of groups can also be the result of “postjudice” (Gavin McGinnis’s term, if memory serves).
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/07/postjudice.html
Your memory is not very good. (And, no, Christopher Hitchen's career did not suffer as a result of his support for the Iraq war, either.)Replies: @Dave Pinsen
I can imagine Caroline Glick making that complaint. I'm not sure why it's of interest here. I can imagine that his grandmother disapproved of him marrying a goy as well, but I would not make an issue of that either.Replies: @syonredux
MMM, perhaps a refresher is in order:
I have little tolerance for people with divided loyalties. Of course, that assumes that Goldberg actually is divided in his loyalties. I tend to think that everything that he does is in the service of Israel….
And you expect to persuade me that you would not have reached that judgement had he never set foot in Israel?Replies: @tomv, @syonredux
(When are we going to talk about the defectors from unit 8200? Did I miss it? I mean, holy shit, 43 spooks practically defecting together in public is unprecedented. That they’re Israelis makes it double-unprecedented.)
The prejudice that men commit violent crime is wrong Wrong WRONG! It’s just female bigotry.
The prejudice that whites are oppressors of non-whites is wrong Wrong WRONG! It’s just Jewish, black, brown, sepia, and yellow bigotry.
The prejudice that Palestinians are terrorists is wrong Wrong WRONG! It’s just Jewish bigotry.
The prejudice about Europeans and the holocaust is wrong Wrong WRONG! It’s just Jewish bigotry.
Jeffrey Goldberg’s prejudice about “Irish progromists” is wrong Wrong WRONG! It’s just Jewish bigotry.
Pizza sez it better:
Jews seem to lean heavily on the idea that the white heathens (“gentiles”) will never tumble to the idea that anti-semitism is a good thing. That’s probably a mistake.
Happen to have a link, or a quote, before I go G**gling?
Where is the North Korean elite in American poltics, media, finance, etc., constantly making themselves a pain in the ass for real human beings? Where’s the gigantic, all-powerful NORK lobby? Nope, no higher standard. Jews are held to much, much lower standards than whites. But, there do seem to be some minimal standards emerging, piecemeal, for Jews. Boo hoo, poor Jews.
Is that shit supposed to be English?
That’s some funny shit. Ever read the Old Testament? Nobody wrote down as extensive a list of ethnic hatreds and misdeeds in the form of a religion as the Jews did, and nobody has come close to matching them since.
And which Jews are foursquare against here in Whitey’s country, but oddly seem to support in their own.
Your slip is showing.
What Goldberg's phrasing elides, though, is that individual opinions of groups can also be the result of "postjudice" (Gavin McGinnis's term, if memory serves).Replies: @anon, @tomv
Well, I disagree with Steve that this was noteworthy–it’s essentially a semantic dispute. Yes, prejudice is, by definition, not the fault of its targets. But, yes, postjudice, as you say. And prejudice can be latent until something causes it to flare, which is what the HRW guy was literally saying. A Parisian Arab was equally prejudiced against Jews in April and July of this year, but the Gaza war undoubtedly gave him the stimulus to go out and cause havoc like the savage he is.
Steve, thanks for the names. You make an interesting point. My first response is to point out that I’d rather have the whole of Jewry on my team (which may be beside your point). I’m sure that’s shocking to some and incredible to many, but it’s pretty obvious and unremarkable to me.
On second thought, I suppose it isn’t beside your point at all.
Jeffrey GoldbergRahm EmanuelI didn't bother to read the whole thing looking for a mention of his service in the American armed forces though the words or phrases "army," "navy," "air force," "marines," and "coast guard" do not appear in the article.
That's two prominent American-born Jews in the American political-media complex under the age of 55 who served in the Israeli Defense Forces. I for one would be interested to know how many prominent Jewish journalists born in America after WWII have served in the American armed forces, and how many have served in the IDF.
Heck, I'd like to know how many Jews born in America after WWII have served in the American armed forces, and how many have served in the Israeli military.
P.S., apropos of I dunno, Wiki sez:Does that mean uncle Auerbach started it? I ask because I strongly suspect it would be "killed by Arab terrorists" or "killed by Arab" (something bad here) if the Arabs had started it.
Following the cites at WIki, the NYT offers no more info:Which only confirms my suspicions. I can't think of any reason for the Times to skip over such a juicy story, except that the details are embarrasing to Rahmbo.
Haaretz even leaves out the Arabs:I ran down a couple of links,
Rense (anti-semitic conspiracy theorist site) had this to say:And Mondo Weiss added little else, except that Ben, Rahmbo's dad and Emanuel's brother, was in the Irgun (Jewish terrorist organization).
Yep, sounds to me like uncle Auerbach started some shit with Arabs and got himself killed in a street fight.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Art Deco
That’s two prominent American-born Jews in the American political-media complex under the age of 55 who served in the Israeli Defense Forces. I for one would be interested to know how many prominent Jewish journalists born in America after WWII have served in the American armed forces, and how many have served in the IDF.
Emmanuel was a civilian technician employed by the IDF for a matter of weeks in 1991.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/11/rahm_emanuel_enforcer.html
I’m not sure why a political journalist who has no reputation for ill-behavior is lumped in the same category with a politician know to be aggressive, rude, and spectacularly corrupt. Goldberg’s never been in politics and Emmanuel has no history as a journalist. They lived in the same city for about 10 years, but is their any indication they met even once?
About 65% of the men born during the years running from 1927 to 1938 had some sort of military service. For the cohorts born from about 1939 to about 1953, it would be around about 45%. For cohorts born after 1953, I believe around 12%. You might be able to use Sociological Abstracts to locate articles on military service among Jews; then again you might not. Up until fairly recently, there were not many American Jews living in Israel, so I doubt you’re going to find much in the way of a history of IDF service.
And which Jews are foursquare against here in Whitey’s country, but oddly seem to support in their own.
Different countries have different opinion spectra. Who’d a thunk it?
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-KaufmannII.html#JIAnd AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw_v3hqtCl0
(changes from Dutch to English after 1:20)Replies: @Art Deco
I have little tolerance for people with divided loyalties. Of course, that assumes that Goldberg actually is divided in his loyalties. I tend to think that everything that he does is in the service of Israel….
And you expect to persuade me that you would not have reached that judgement had he never set foot in Israel?
I had a good laugh stomping on Art Deco in the past
I don’t remember you.
Prolific commenter considers hundreds of dead children to be "penny ante'. That says a lot.
Goldberg's claims about being bullied by Irish kids is probably just a self serving lie. Maybe he got a thrill out of torturing Arab prisoners. Prison conditions for Arabs over there are known to be hideous and a human rights disgrace. Many Israelis themselves have protested the inhuman conditions there. But that's just "penny ante" to some commenters who are going on to their thousandth comment.Replies: @Art Deco
Prolific commenter considers hundreds of dead children to be “penny ante’.
There’s a six figure death toll in Syria as we speak, not to mention what’s going on in Iraq. There is nothing that prevents Hamas from reaching a modus vivendi with Israel; they just do not feel like it.
Well, why would you join the US military? So Obama sends you to aid “moderate rebels” against Assad and to defend the freedom of Estonia from Putin? To punish countries that don’t have appropriate policies on homosexual rights? Whereas with Israel, there’s a pretty clear cause for a “loyalist” type, as you put it, to fight for, especially if he is Jewish.
On second thought, I suppose it isn't beside your point at all.Replies: @Steve Sailer
I wrote a lot about Michael Bloomberg when he was mayor of Gotham: $30 billion in the bank, gives billions away in charity, had a 44,000 person “private army” in his words (NYPD), owns a worldwide computer network that his employees use to spy on finance guys, etc. Basically, Bloomberg is like a real world version of Bruce Wayne.
Do you want Bruce Wayne to feel, deep down, he’s on your side, or on the side of some other people half way around the world? Of course you want Bruce Wayne to be on your side. But we’ve been almost wholly disarmed from shaming the Bloombergs into expressing more loyalties toward Americans than toward Jews. Bloomberg went on the radio and announced that America should have amnesty so he doesn’t have to pay more money in wages to have the fairways manicured at Deepdale Country Club (which is possibly the most exclusive and underused golf course in America). Conversely, he flew to Israel to accept the world’s first ever “Jewish Nobel Prize” from some Russian oligarchs.
These are the kind of things where it should occur to a Bloomberg: wow, I’m really going to get laughed at if I do this stuff. I should try to behave better, like I care about Americans rather than Israelis, so I’m not such a butt of jokes.
But, here’s the thing. Nobody gets the joke. It never occurs to Bloomberg that he’s making a fool of himself because who would dare joke about such matters?
But completely unthinkable now-even libertarians are afraid to raise the issue.
It is true the more prominent libertarians among opinion journalists (Megan McArdle, Glenn Reynolds) tend to avoid the subject. You see some more of it at Christian sites and those critiquing higher education because the import of 'anti-discrimination' ordinances is to effectively put the operations of these associations under the supervision of hostile bureaucrats.
Technically, Goldberg said that it is “universal and immutable” that prejudice is gratuitous. By the definition of prejudice, he’s right. His mistake is thinking that all anti-Semitism is prejudice.
Goldberg says he became a Zionist because some “Irish” kids bullied him for being Jewish. I can relate. I used to be a doctrinaire progressive, but years of listening to progressives blame everything from the economy to ring-around-the-collar on white males turned me into a paleocon.
Different countries have different opinion spectra. Who'd a thunk it?Replies: @fnn
Different countries with something in common:
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-KaufmannII.html#JI
And AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the US:
(changes from Dutch to English after 1:20)
Sayeth the man who has never heard of the National Education Association, the American Association of Retired Persons, or the American Farm Bureau Federation.Replies: @fnn
As for later events, they were much less consequential. The fabled Khmelnytsky Uprising was much less bloody than Jewish legend would have it:For a roughly contemporary parallel, here are the figures for Ireland during the Cromwellian Conquest:http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#European
The late 19th-early 20th century pogroms were very small things in comparison:http://necrometrics.com/20c30k.htm#Romanov
Interestingly, the pogroms that occurred during the Russian Civil War were far worse, even though they get less press. On page 365 of Atrocities, White notes that between 60,000 and 150,000 Jews were killed during this period, and he characterized it as the deadliest event for Jews between the Bar Kokhba revolt and the Holocaust. Of course, one can set this alongside the Armenian Genocide (353, White cites a Turkish document from the period that lists 972,000 Armenian deaths).
Frankly, one of problems with studying Jewish history is that too many historians view everything through the lens of the Holocaust.Replies: @Luke Lea, @Dave Pinsen
For the numbers killed during 19th century Russian pogroms see Walter Laqueur’s The History of Zionism.
Regarding the historical background of Khmelnytsky Uprising, Google the phrase “arenda system” and Ukraine. Basically Jews — some, not all — served as overseers for absentee landlords on what were for all intents and purposes slave plantations. This finally precipitated a revolt in which the Polish nobility and Jews were killed indiscriminately. It had zero to do with religion.
http://www.aurdip.fr/contradicting-its-own-ruling.html?lang=frReplies: @Art Deco, @Hepp, @Dave Pinsen
Good for them. If Israel still allows freedom of association, then it’s more in line with Anglo-American traditions than what’s become of the United States and England.
In general, Americans who take government jobs in Israel tend to be well to the right of the average American Jew
That’s not true of Jeffrey Goldberg, who is AFAIK a standard liberal Jew on domestic US politics. Even on Israel, he poses as someone more moderate and thoughtful than those naughty Republican Jews.
And then there’s Rahm Israel Emmanuel; the banker Stanley Fischer; Democratic strategist Stanley Greenberg (who did campaign work for Israeli Labour): all in the American Jewish liberal mainstream.
And, oh my goodness, I didn’t know that about Helprin. Shame on Dole and whoever else has employed Helprin.
About 80% of the Jewish population votes Democratic. Jeffrey Goldberg may actually be to the right of center on that particular spectrum. William Kristol has the viewpoints of an ordinary no-frills Republican, but he's at the 10th percentile among American Jews.
There's a six figure death toll in Syria as we speak, not to mention what's going on in Iraq. There is nothing that prevents Hamas from reaching a modus vivendi with Israel; they just do not feel like it.Replies: @fnn
Of course the current chaos in Iraq the direct result of the Iraq War, for which neocons and other Israel Firsters were the prime movers. USG/Israel have also been backing the international Jihadists who have been waging the war against Assad for the past two years. Saudi and Qatar are also part of the anti-Assad/Iran coalition.
I think there are some intervening events you've missed.
for which neocons and other Israel Firsters were the prime movers.
No, the President of the United States and the United States Congress were the 'prime movers'. See Martin Kramer on this point: the priority of the government of Israel was and remains Iran, not Iraq.Replies: @fnn
Yes, and that’s because whites are cowards. That’s no reason to wish that Jews become like them.
The Muslims have demonstrated centuries-old animus towards Jews. It's in the Koran. They didn't need Gaza to hate them.
The white Europeans aren't a lot better.Replies: @Harold, @Primus Pilus, @Newdist
Read the Kings Torah. And after you read it and you still have doubts about how non Jews are judged and how we non Jews are viewed and what our existance is according to the holy Torah and you still believe the bull about them being a light unto the world shame on you. Of course not all Jews buy into the The Kings Torah but others do. No religion, no race is above or more deserving than another. Open your eyes and mind. Do not believe the media, search for the truth and take your time doing it, it
can be tiresome but well worth it.
Of course the current chaos in Iraq the direct result of the Iraq War
I think there are some intervening events you’ve missed.
for which neocons and other Israel Firsters were the prime movers.
No, the President of the United States and the United States Congress were the ‘prime movers’. See Martin Kramer on this point: the priority of the government of Israel was and remains Iran, not Iraq.
http://takimag.com/article/steve_and_his_critic/printReplies: @Art Deco
I tend to suspect the reason behind the silence was identified by Ann Coulter 15 years ago re the Libertarian Party: “the only issue they care about is the drug laws”. Shuffle through the publish posts of Amy Alkon to take one example. Complaints about police (usually invalid), complaints about security guards (usually invalid), complaints about school officials (more often valid, and the sort of thing Glenn Reynolds points out). It’s all about authority figures hassling people. High school students do not own apartments for rent or operate hardware stores. They do have confrontations with mall security.
It is true the more prominent libertarians among opinion journalists (Megan McArdle, Glenn Reynolds) tend to avoid the subject. You see some more of it at Christian sites and those critiquing higher education because the import of ‘anti-discrimination’ ordinances is to effectively put the operations of these associations under the supervision of hostile bureaucrats.
That's not true of Jeffrey Goldberg, who is AFAIK a standard liberal Jew on domestic US politics. Even on Israel, he poses as someone more moderate and thoughtful than those naughty Republican Jews.
And then there's Rahm Israel Emmanuel; the banker Stanley Fischer; Democratic strategist Stanley Greenberg (who did campaign work for Israeli Labour): all in the American Jewish liberal mainstream.
And, oh my goodness, I didn't know that about Helprin. Shame on Dole and whoever else has employed Helprin.Replies: @Art Deco, @Dave Pinsen
That’s not true of Jeffrey Goldberg, who is AFAIK a standard liberal Jew on domestic US politics.
About 80% of the Jewish population votes Democratic. Jeffrey Goldberg may actually be to the right of center on that particular spectrum. William Kristol has the viewpoints of an ordinary no-frills Republican, but he’s at the 10th percentile among American Jews.
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-KaufmannII.html#JIAnd AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw_v3hqtCl0
(changes from Dutch to English after 1:20)Replies: @Art Deco
And AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the US:
Sayeth the man who has never heard of the National Education Association, the American Association of Retired Persons, or the American Farm Bureau Federation.
Amen!
I’m surprised that in this thread nobody has mentioned Golan Cipel, Jim McGreevey’s homeland security chief.
What Goldberg's phrasing elides, though, is that individual opinions of groups can also be the result of "postjudice" (Gavin McGinnis's term, if memory serves).Replies: @anon, @tomv
Postjudice is not a new coinage. Even among alt-righters, Steve was using it long before that insufferable McInnis, as one would expect.
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/07/postjudice.html
Your memory is not very good. (And, no, Christopher Hitchen’s career did not suffer as a result of his support for the Iraq war, either.)
I can't say I remember every Sailer post from 5 years ago, but I think my memory is generally pretty good.
When this is your worldview...Replies: @Lurker, @Joe Walker
“Irish pogromists?” Doesn’t Goldberg know that race and ethnicity are just social constructs and so terms such as “Irish”, “Jewish”, “black” and “white” have no real scientific meaning?
For an ordinary person, Noah172, there is not much to discuss here. The problem you have with Goldberg has little to do with Goldberg and much to do with your own interiors.Replies: @Anon
To you there is nothing ‘unusual’ about him.
To most Americans, his upbringing and choices are actually very unusual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_Boycott
Anti-semitism among Irish Roman Catholics used to be - maybe still is - common and nasty. It infected even my Irish grandfather, who was in every other way a decent and charming fellow. On the other hand, we also have family experience of a Roman Catholic school instructing its pupils to hate Protestants, so you could argue that Jews weren't singled out for nastiness.Replies: @BubbaJoe, @Anonymous
Dearieme indeed,
Every political party- every one- condemned that “pogrom”- street kids throwing rocks at the behest of a local priest, who ended up being sent to the Philipines as a result of his antics (the right word). The hierarchy punished him, other priests shunned him. No Jews were killed. The public was outraged. What more do you want? Did you even read the link you added? If you have any real interest in this, go read Cormac O’Grada.
“Anti-semitism among Irish Roman Catholics used to be – maybe still is – common and nasty.”
With a very liberal definition of anti-semitism, you could be right on the former, but never on the latter.
“we also have family experience of a Roman Catholic school instructing its pupils to hate Protestants”
What world did you live in? I’m waiting to see, given your imagination, “priest-ridden” in your next comments. And ye talk about them whinging with the victim card.
And you expect to persuade me that you would not have reached that judgement had he never set foot in Israel?Replies: @tomv, @syonredux
“And you expect to persuade me that you would not have reached that judgement had he never set foot in Israel?”
He persuaded me! At least more than you did. I mean, why would anyone go around thinking that a random Goldberg does everything with Israel/The Tribe in mind, before he gives any indications of that tendency, as this Jeffrey Goldberg has done over the years?
Anti-semitism!, you say.
And you expect to persuade me that you would not have reached that judgment had Syon never said a word about Goldberg?
And on and on we go.
Jeffrey Goldberg has been hiding his ethnocentricity by writing it up at vast length in The New Yorker and The Atlantic for the last 15 years.
But their biggest supporters in the US (Christian Zionists) are anti-racist (or they *think* they are) MLK worshippers.
Slightly oiff topic, but reading the intro to Irving Krystol's new collection of essays on the subject of Jews and Judaism written by his wife, Gertrude Himmelfarb (one of my favorite writers, btw, as is Krystol himself) I was struck by an anecdote she recounts. Krystol's parents, like most Ashkenazi's were orthodox Jews who emigrated from Eastern Europe. The first rabbi he met here in the U.S. counseled him to do to things: spit every time he passed a Christian church and fear the Gentiles. Krystol goes on to decry these remarks, saying that such fears are based on atavistic memories of the European past. Still, what struck me is the contempt this advice manifested for the dominant culture of the country to which Ashkenazis came (the spitting) as well as the fear, both of which continue to be manifested among certain not uninfluential segments of the Ashkenazi community. When part of the Ruling Class holds such feelings and opinions . . . well, it isn't a healthy thing.
One other note: once you discount for the Holocaust, the degree to which European Jewry was persecuted in past centuries has been greatly exaggerated in terms of the absolute number of victims (measured in the low hundreds in the case of all the pogroms in the 19th century for example), while the special privileges and immunities the Jewish communities in Poland enjoyed are entirely overlooked or forgotten. Much better to be born a Jew than a peasant at almost any point in European history. It was only in comparison to the tiny fraction of the population who belonged to the nobility that the Jews suffered.
Thus this persecution complex is a reflexion of the self-centered world view of the Ashkenazis ancestors: it was always about them, not the general conditions of the societies in which they lived. Back then it was a world in which everybody was both exploited and exploiting with very few exceptions (nobility at the top, peasant children at the bottom) and perforce European Jewry were right in the middle of it all. They are ignorant of their own history in its context.Replies: @Luke Lea, @syonredux, @Anonymous
You’ve got a point, Luke Lea, but you take it too far. How did so many Jews end up in Poland in the first place? Most came as a result of expulsions from town after town in Germany. The main Jewish privilege in Poland, up to about 1760, was communal autonomy which worked out as rule by the rabbis. It was not a guarantor of wealth. Economically, only the top stratum of Jews involved in money lending and management of the great magnates’ estates could compare to the lower nobility. The Polish Ashkenazi Jewish population was too large for everyone to fit into that economic niche from relatively early on.
Sayeth the man who has never heard of the National Education Association, the American Association of Retired Persons, or the American Farm Bureau Federation.Replies: @fnn
None of those get the virtually unanimous bipartisan support the Israel lobby does. They almost always get what the want-but they failed to get the attack on Syria last year and thousands of Christians were no doubt saved from extermination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerick_Boycott
Anti-semitism among Irish Roman Catholics used to be - maybe still is - common and nasty. It infected even my Irish grandfather, who was in every other way a decent and charming fellow. On the other hand, we also have family experience of a Roman Catholic school instructing its pupils to hate Protestants, so you could argue that Jews weren't singled out for nastiness.Replies: @BubbaJoe, @Anonymous
OMG it sounds terrible! How many were killed?
Isn’t this Jeffrey Goldberg the same Jeffrey Goldberg who said that jews invented the modern world? He didn’t even give any credits to blacks or latinos!
I think there are some intervening events you've missed.
for which neocons and other Israel Firsters were the prime movers.
No, the President of the United States and the United States Congress were the 'prime movers'. See Martin Kramer on this point: the priority of the government of Israel was and remains Iran, not Iraq.Replies: @fnn
http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/white-man-s-burden-1.14110
http://nowarforisrael.com/jewish-writers-confirm-that-the-iraq-war-was-a-war-for-israel-not-america/
http://takimag.com/article/steve_and_his_critic/print
Takimag's a punchline, not something to be quoted as an authoritative source.Replies: @fnn
Right, and those Christian Zionists are fools. No reason to take that out on Israel, which is an admirable country acting in ways I wish western countries would act.
Art, it is not American Jews living in Israel whom people are referring to as having served in the IDF. It is American Jews still living in America, who go to Israel for a 2 to 3 year hitch in the IDF.
For example here is a story about Michael Levin of Philadephia in the WaPo. I always remembered this guy’s story because at the time it struck me as odd. He died in 2006 during the Lebanon war. I thought it was strange that an American-born man would join the IDF while his own country was actively engaged in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember 2006 was at the height of the insurgency. We could have used another good soldier during those days
PS. This is purely anecdotal, but I will mention it. While in college in the 1980s, I lived in a dorm with Jew from New Jersey. We were talking about the military and he was telling me that the US should adopt the Israeli structure where there were no separate branches. He felt there would be less bureaucratic waste and infighting if we didn’t have a separate army, navy, air force, etc. In the course of this discussion I told him I had seriously thought about joining the army after HS before I went to college. He said his parents would flip if he joined the US army. He said only losers joined the army (remember this was the 80’s). He said that some of his friends did a two year enlistment with the IDF and his family would be more supportive if he joined the IDF as opposed to the US army.
I have no idea if this is prevalent among Jews or not. But for a small town boy who loved Reagan, it blew my mind.
http://www.boxer.senate.gov/en/press/releases/091914.cfm
THIS PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
“Authorizes the President to carry out cooperation between the U.S. and Israel on a range of policy areas including energy, water, homeland security, and alternative fuel technologies. And it requires the President to study the feasibility of expanding U.S.-Israel cooperation on cyber security.”
This some kind of a joke?
Expand US-Israel cooperation on cyber security? When Israel is the biggest violator and thief of US secrecy?
At least when the likes of Rosenberg were sending secrets to Stalin, there was HUAC to cry foul.
At least when Pollard was up to no good, he was caught and prosecuted.
Now, Jewish elites in Washington and Israeli Jews collude and conspire on every level.
And yet, we need a bill to boost US-Israeli cooperation in security?
This is an oligarchy we are living under.
A democracy is not about whore politicians rubber-stamping a bill that allows Zionists to squeeze America for all its worth.
http://takimag.com/article/steve_and_his_critic/printReplies: @Art Deco
I take it you fancy that George W. Bush and Richard Cheney can be rolled by a mess of opinion journalists. That’s your delusion, not mine.
Takimag‘s a punchline, not something to be quoted as an authoritative source.
Takimag‘s a punchline, not something to be quoted as an authoritative source.
Art,
Takimag? Didn’t you read FNN’s link to the Israeli publication Haaretz?
“Art Deco says:
Takimag‘s a punchline, not something to be quoted as an authoritative source.”
Neither are you.
You have to admire the courage and conviction of guys like Goldberg and Emmanuel, bravely going off to Israel to defend the Motherland by…………………fixing trucks and guarding prisoners. It’s a far cry from The Abraham Lincoln Brigade or the Eagle Squadron.
“For example here is a story about Michael Levin of Philadephia in the WaPo. I always remembered this guy’s story because at the time it struck me as odd. He died in 2006 during the Lebanon war. I thought it was strange that an American-born man would join the IDF while his own country was actively engaged in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember 2006 was at the height of the insurgency. We could have used another good soldier during those days”
I don’t know, fighting to preserve Al-Malikki’s Iranian-affiliated government doesn’t seem a particularly inspiring cause to die for.
Art Deco says:
“”And AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the US””
Sayeth the man who has never heard of the National Education Association, the American Association of Retired Persons, or the American Farm Bureau Federation.”
And does every major US Presidential candidate feel compelled to address the annual meeting of the American Farm Bureau Federation?
Sayeth the man who has never heard of the National Education Association, the American Association of Retired Persons, or the American Farm Bureau Federation.”
Another thing is that all of those mentioned, whether you support them or not, are concerned about American issues, AIPAC is about Israel.
“But the fear of anti-Semitism is the forge on which many American Jews build their identities.”
Interesting, if true. I imagine that also means that they need anti-semitism to exist for their identities to be validated.
“Difference Maker
He should change his username. I actually like art deco”
Perhaps some other style of architecture would supply a better name for him – like Stalin-Empire or Brutalist – something more befitting his personal style of dullness, and arrogance detached from any intrinsic worth.
"As for his relationship with UT, Tyson claims he’s moved on. “I don’t hold a grudge, and I don’t blame the department for kicking me out. I might have done the same thing in their position,” he says.
But at other moments, it’s clear that he’s still raw about Texas, almost 30 years later. “When I get mail from the Texas Exes, it goes straight in the trash. Why should I believe in an institution that didn’t believe in me?”
That’s the way Tyson sees it: UT didn’t believe in him, while Harvard, Columbia, and Princeton did. “When I look at my life, the tracks of my success take a detour around Texas,” he says. “It’s the only place where I didn’t succeed, and I’m still figuring out what that means.”"
'Believe in me'?
He admits he was a bad student at UT but then bitches UT didn't 'believe' in him.
Meaning what?Replies: @Southfarthing
That article doesn’t seem to regard Neil deGrasse Tyson as the best successor to Carl Sagan:
“Astronomy professor Craig Wheeler remembers Tyson: “Research was not his strength. He was never going to solve any major scientific problems. But I knew he was going to do something big, because he had charisma. He’s warm and funny, but he also has serious backbone, ambition, confidence—and that’s taken him far.”
https://www.unz.com/article/senate-torture-report-vanishes/
End of History is not liberal democracy but Eskimo power that has exploited liberal democracy to gain dominance and monopolize all the elite institutions.
Eskimo elites don’t respect liberal democracy for liberal democracy’s sake. They value how it can used to maximize and magnify their own power.
It’s like Italian-American mafia used American laws for legal protection and to expand their criminal empire.
That is the true End of History. Not liberal democracy as a principle but as a means of power.
But then, if liberal democracy is used this way… it’s no longer liberal democracy but a semi-criminal oligarchy.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/
http://youtu.be/BIYHehg6lUQ
http://youtu.be/QLFwDFCNV60
During the cold war–when Eskimos shared power with wasps and Catholics–, liberal democracy was a shining principle defended and promoted against totalitarian communism.
Once it won, it lost its sheen as a principle and merely became a means–along with ‘free trade’ and ‘globalism’–by which the smartest and most cunning/ruthless groups in society could amass the most power.
Just like the Corleones wiped out the five families, the Eskimo elites wiped out and purged all the opposition. Their hired goons are homos and mulattoes.
It’s all about power. In the Middle East, in the Ukraine.
As for later events, they were much less consequential. The fabled Khmelnytsky Uprising was much less bloody than Jewish legend would have it:For a roughly contemporary parallel, here are the figures for Ireland during the Cromwellian Conquest:http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#European
The late 19th-early 20th century pogroms were very small things in comparison:http://necrometrics.com/20c30k.htm#Romanov
Interestingly, the pogroms that occurred during the Russian Civil War were far worse, even though they get less press. On page 365 of Atrocities, White notes that between 60,000 and 150,000 Jews were killed during this period, and he characterized it as the deadliest event for Jews between the Bar Kokhba revolt and the Holocaust. Of course, one can set this alongside the Armenian Genocide (353, White cites a Turkish document from the period that lists 972,000 Armenian deaths).
Frankly, one of problems with studying Jewish history is that too many historians view everything through the lens of the Holocaust.Replies: @Luke Lea, @Dave Pinsen
Try Wanderings: Chaim Potok’s history of the Jews: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0394501101/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1411453256&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40
IIRC, he spends just a paragraph or two on the Holocaust.
http://www.aurdip.fr/contradicting-its-own-ruling.html?lang=frReplies: @Art Deco, @Hepp, @Dave Pinsen
The Israeli Supreme Court just shot down those detention centers used to lock up African illegal immigrants, and says they’ve got to be released http://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/israels-supreme-court-orders-shut-down-of-controversial-dete
Israel has a body of constitutional law, not a superordinate charter judges can use as an excuse for imposing their policy preferences. This problem can be dealt with with a piece of statutory legislation.
Gaza and modern Israel, however, are a thorn in the muslims' side. To them Israel was created by outside Christian nations who carved out a piece of muslim territory to be a Jewish state. That is unacceptable, and so long as it exists, will cause friction between Jews and muslms.
But that doesn't preclude Jews and muslims from coming together to make common cause against the Christians. They've done it before, and probably will again.Replies: @Dave Pinsen
Saddam Hussein’s deputy Tariq Aziz was a Christian. Religious minorities can be a safe staff choice for autocrats because they’ll never be a threat to usurp them.
Helprin was a pilot, if I recall correctly. His occasional op/eds in the WSJ on military topics used to mention his service in the Israeli Air Force. His novel Memoirs From An Antproof Case was pretty good and had a great paragraph or two comparing English to Portuguese.
Speaking of New York City, loyalty, and shame, the speaker of the city council, a Puerto Rican, didn’t put her hand over her heart during the recent 9/11 commemoration. Another Puerto Rican pol called her out for it though:
http://nypost.com/2014/09/13/mark-viverito-doesnt-place-hand-over-heart-during-911-ceremony/
That's not true of Jeffrey Goldberg, who is AFAIK a standard liberal Jew on domestic US politics. Even on Israel, he poses as someone more moderate and thoughtful than those naughty Republican Jews.
And then there's Rahm Israel Emmanuel; the banker Stanley Fischer; Democratic strategist Stanley Greenberg (who did campaign work for Israeli Labour): all in the American Jewish liberal mainstream.
And, oh my goodness, I didn't know that about Helprin. Shame on Dole and whoever else has employed Helprin.Replies: @Art Deco, @Dave Pinsen
I’m not a regular Atlantic reader anymore, but my sense is that Goldberg was more critical of Israel years ago. I think the relatively recent trend of anti-Israel protests in Europe blending into anti-Jewry protests (with synagogues targeted in addition or in lieu of Israeli consulates) has prompted some leftish Jewish pundits who were previously more critical of Israel to circle the wagons a bit. It’s also prompted some anti-antisemitism editorials recently from British papers that remain critical of Israel.
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/07/postjudice.html
Your memory is not very good. (And, no, Christopher Hitchen's career did not suffer as a result of his support for the Iraq war, either.)Replies: @Dave Pinsen
Makes sense, then, that autocorrect didn’t flag it.
I can’t say I remember every Sailer post from 5 years ago, but I think my memory is generally pretty good.
I really impressed a friend during the 1991 Gulf War buildup by explaining the whole left hook through the desert armored attack strategy months before it happened. I got it all from a Helprin op-ed in the WSJ, but my friend hadn’t seen it.
Would’ve impressed me too, because I hadn’t read it either.
Every political party- every one- condemned that "pogrom"- street kids throwing rocks at the behest of a local priest, who ended up being sent to the Philipines as a result of his antics (the right word). The hierarchy punished him, other priests shunned him. No Jews were killed. The public was outraged. What more do you want? Did you even read the link you added? If you have any real interest in this, go read Cormac O'Grada.
"Anti-semitism among Irish Roman Catholics used to be - maybe still is - common and nasty."
With a very liberal definition of anti-semitism, you could be right on the former, but never on the latter.
"we also have family experience of a Roman Catholic school instructing its pupils to hate Protestants"
What world did you live in? I'm waiting to see, given your imagination, "priest-ridden" in your next comments. And ye talk about them whinging with the victim card.Replies: @dearieme
You really don’t understand irony in the US, do you?
““we also have family experience of a Roman Catholic school instructing its pupils to hate Protestants”
What world did you live in?”
I live in a family of Roman Catholics (Irish and English), Protestants and atheists. We have direct evidence of misbehaviour to which members of the family have been subjected: there have been two seriously bad experiences, both directed at children, both by Roman Catholics, both concerning religion – one by a family member (English), one by a set of school teachers (Irish). Another post referred to “priest-ridden”: that was a term favoured by my Irish grandfather, to describe the way of life he was brought up in. His other favoured terms included “drunken”, “violent” and “dishonest”. Happily he managed to distance himself from all that, except that the anti-semitism lingered. God knows why; he was a lovely chap otherwise.
2. You're original post- about Irish anti-semitism - doesn't hold water. There's a certain group in Ireland and the UK that love to pretend otherwise- that the Irish were all closet Nazis (except for those brave enough to abandon their country); that Kerrymen aided and resupplied U-boats in WW2; that Belfast Catholics kept their lights on to guide the Luftwaffe; that in staying neutral Ireland supported the Holocaust; and that the only way to atone for these sins is to support Israel completely, to accept endless 3rd world immigration, and to dispel with any love for a unique Irish identity. All nonsense. So cry away; you do so with the neo-cons.
Takimag's a punchline, not something to be quoted as an authoritative source.Replies: @fnn
The Takimag article was by Prof. Paul Gottfried.
""And AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the US""
Sayeth the man who has never heard of the National Education Association, the American Association of Retired Persons, or the American Farm Bureau Federation."
And does every major US Presidential candidate feel compelled to address the annual meeting of the American Farm Bureau Federation?Replies: @Anonymous
“”And AIPAC is the most powerful lobby in the US””
Sayeth the man who has never heard of the National Education Association, the American Association of Retired Persons, or the American Farm Bureau Federation.”
Another thing is that all of those mentioned, whether you support them or not, are concerned about American issues, AIPAC is about Israel.
IIRC, he spends just a paragraph or two on the Holocaust.Replies: @syonredux
I read that one back in secondary school; I seem to recall thinking that it was overly sentimental and insufficiently scholarly.
Oh, I’m quite aware of the role played by Ashkenazi Jews in Ukraine as tax-farmers and estate managers for the Polish elite, jobs that are not exactly going to win you the undying love and friendship of peasants.I would be hesitant, though, to say that religion played no role. We are, after all, talking about the 17th century, the epoch of the Thirty Years War and Cromwell’s Conquest of Ireland.Religion is seldom the dominant factor (cf the French intervention in 1634, which was all about realpolitik), but it is always there.
Today's religions are:
1. Human are evil and are destroying the environment and climate and our childrens' futures (is this just another form of original sin?)
2. All humans are, under the hood, the same (the psychological unity of humans).
Both of these are anti-scientific positions ... so much for the myth of the ascendancy of science.
And you expect to persuade me that you would not have reached that judgement had he never set foot in Israel?Replies: @tomv, @syonredux
Well no, seeing as how I had reached that conclusion before I learned that he had lived in Israel and served in the IDF. Goldberg reveals his true loyalties by the nature of his writing career, which is heavily focused on Israel.
Don’t be evil, but do support the modern religion. That is, any criticism of solar power or wind power is forbidden:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/la-pn-google-conservative-20140922-story.html%22
That is because religion is a (big) part of any group’s culture and, over long periods of time, we see selection for more optimal operation within that culture.
Today’s religions are:
1. Human are evil and are destroying the environment and climate and our childrens’ futures (is this just another form of original sin?)
2. All humans are, under the hood, the same (the psychological unity of humans).
Both of these are anti-scientific positions … so much for the myth of the ascendancy of science.
Virtually all Jews in the US are the same as whites when it comes to US domestic policy. Generally even worse. Then they engage in denial or outright lying when it comes to the ethno-nationalist polices of the Jewish state in the ME.
MLK worship is part of the compulsory state religion of the American (?) Empire. It would be interesting to see how it became that way. I mean name names, not just allude to impersonal historical forces.
And no, it wasn’t Ronald Reagan-the battle was lost by then. What was behind the over-the-top antics of drunken old fool Daniel Patrick Moynihan when he went nuts over the last ditch attempt of Jesse Helms to stop the MLK Holiday bill? Was he playing the crazy old Bolshevik to win the plaudits of the media? Also interesting how , afterwards, Jesse Helms made the switch from #1 critic of Israel in the Senate (hard to believe, but true) to its most enthusiastic supporter.
So what?
You were insulting Prof. Gottfried, a friend and associate of our host. And Mr. Sailer also writes for Takimag. But then you're a dirtbag and thus don't really care.Replies: @Art Deco
The Israeli Supreme Court just shot down those detention centers used to lock up African illegal immigrants, and says they’ve got to be released
Israel has a body of constitutional law, not a superordinate charter judges can use as an excuse for imposing their policy preferences. This problem can be dealt with with a piece of statutory legislation.
Why would they? Mr. Cipel was notable for being the object of James McGreevey’s grossness. McGreevey first pesters him for sexual favors and then uses Cipel’s persona as a character in his (McGreevey’s) autobiographical fictions. What’s that got to do with anything?
I live in a family of Roman Catholics (Irish and English), Protestants and atheists. We have direct evidence of misbehaviour to which members of the family have been subjected: there have been two seriously bad experiences, both directed at children, both by Roman Catholics, both concerning religion – one by a family member (English), one by a set of school teachers (Irish).
Great, we’ve got another Jeffrey Goldberg. Can all you people who think the world is best understood via reference to the banal anecdotes of your own lives please get a clue?
he was a lovely chap otherwise.
And what’s with all the English on this blog? Stop importing your own obsessions and tribal hatreds into America.
The sad thing is that Robert De Niro probably meant this as a slam…
But there is a good deal of truth in Wilson’s rejoinder
The Muslims have demonstrated centuries-old animus towards Jews. It's in the Koran. They didn't need Gaza to hate them.
The white Europeans aren't a lot better.Replies: @Harold, @Primus Pilus, @Newdist
“The Muslims have demonstrated centuries-old animus towards Jews. It’s in the Koran. They didn’t need Gaza to hate them.”
The Jews have demonstrated centuries-old animus towards Gentiles. It’s in the Talmud. They didn’t need Auschwitz to hate them.
“So what?”
You were insulting Prof. Gottfried, a friend and associate of our host. And Mr. Sailer also writes for Takimag. But then you’re a dirtbag and thus don’t really care.
This sort of pretension is bog standard for palaeo commentators, as is trafficking in a number of asinine memes (e.g. those involving Jew conspiracies).
What world did you live in?"
I live in a family of Roman Catholics (Irish and English), Protestants and atheists. We have direct evidence of misbehaviour to which members of the family have been subjected: there have been two seriously bad experiences, both directed at children, both by Roman Catholics, both concerning religion - one by a family member (English), one by a set of school teachers (Irish). Another post referred to "priest-ridden": that was a term favoured by my Irish grandfather, to describe the way of life he was brought up in. His other favoured terms included "drunken", "violent" and "dishonest". Happily he managed to distance himself from all that, except that the anti-semitism lingered. God knows why; he was a lovely chap otherwise.Replies: @BubbaJoe
1. You’ve got a massive chip on your shoulder about the Irish. Let it go.
2. You’re original post- about Irish anti-semitism – doesn’t hold water. There’s a certain group in Ireland and the UK that love to pretend otherwise- that the Irish were all closet Nazis (except for those brave enough to abandon their country); that Kerrymen aided and resupplied U-boats in WW2; that Belfast Catholics kept their lights on to guide the Luftwaffe; that in staying neutral Ireland supported the Holocaust; and that the only way to atone for these sins is to support Israel completely, to accept endless 3rd world immigration, and to dispel with any love for a unique Irish identity. All nonsense. So cry away; you do so with the neo-cons.
One of the names to name would be MLK’s. He was an extremely talented and charismatic orator. And he was also martyred young, so he never had a chance to wear out his goodwill (as, for example, his kids have).
His children have not been nearly as obtrusive. Whether or not they've worn out their goodwill, three of them have been guilty of serial buffooneries over the last 25 years. King was never a buffoon in front of the public. His wife was very dignified but miscast as a public figure. The King Center functioned passably as s grant money vent pipe. It has no authentic institutional mission. (To be fair, neither does the NAACP, which is episodically obnoxious in ways the King Center is not).
so he never had a chance to wear out his goodwill (as, for example, his kids have).
His children have not been nearly as obtrusive. Whether or not they’ve worn out their goodwill, three of them have been guilty of serial buffooneries over the last 25 years. King was never a buffoon in front of the public. His wife was very dignified but miscast as a public figure. The King Center functioned passably as s grant money vent pipe. It has no authentic institutional mission. (To be fair, neither does the NAACP, which is episodically obnoxious in ways the King Center is not).
Wasps were far from perfect. We all know that.
But more than any other people, they were responsible for founding and building a nation of Rule of Law, moral progress, and responsibility.
Sure, one can find countless examples of corruption and hypocrisy among wasps, but when compared to other peoples around the world–Greeks, Italians, Poles, Russians, Chinese, Arabs, Africans, Mexicans, Spanish, Argentinian, and etc–, Wasps really were a class act in US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, and etc.
And they made the modern city-states of Hong Kong and Singapore possible.
And Bahamas too. Imagine making a nation of Negroes work rather well. Now, that’s really an accomplishment.
So, the Wasp brand is a trusted one around the world. For a long time, the world preferred to trust something labeled ‘British’, ‘American’, or ‘Canadian’. It was synonymous with reliable, trustworthy, professional, legal, contractual, honorable, and etc. (Again, relatively speaking, as non-Wasps sucked so bad and couldn’t be trusted on anything. Just look at the disgusting natives of Indonesia in ACT OF KILLING. Made me sick in my stomach.)
There was something about the Wasp ‘national/cultural character’ that was real. It wasn’t just about intelligence/talent but about a certain code of conduct and accountability. After all, lots of Chinese are intelligent but their culture is corrupt, crappy, and chop-sueyish. I wouldn’t trust a Chinese with anything. And though Japan is efficient, we saw in the 80s how Japanese play a dirty game internationally to win market shares.
What about Jews? Even more intelligent and capable in Wasps in many fields, which is why they rose so high and fast. (Despite Wasp prejudices and discrimination, it was the relatively fair rule-of-law system that provided Jews with the best chance of advancement in Anglosphere worlds. They were also the safest places for Jews. Jewish intelligence and ability cannot be denied.)
But what about Jewish ‘national/cultural character’? Is it closer to Wasp or closer to Italian/Chinese/Arab/Russian? This question may be especially relevant in consideration of Jews of Eastern European origin as so many of them hold high positions in America.
Consider WOLF OF WALL STREET. Jordan Belfort was obviously a bright guy. He was no dummy, and a crooked dummy couldn’t have accomplished what he did. But then, why was he able to fleece so many people? Because he used the facade of a Wasp-sounding company.
Now, why had Waspiness become synonymous with trustworthiness and reliability? Because Wasps, more than any other people, had built nations and institutions renowned for their rule-of-law, fairness, and accountability.
Yet, Belfort merely exploited that brand to pull every dirty shit trick in the book and then some.
But then, all of Wall Street is like this. It is now Jewish-controlled. Indeed, Jews are the ruling elites of America. The world still respects and looks to America because of its long reputation as the Good great power(again, relatively speaking). This reputation had been built gradually and diligently over two centuries. True, Wasps pulled a lot of dirty tricks(especially with Indians and Mexicans), and FDR was as devious as they come, but when compared to other great powers, US seemed to be a class act. Better US than USSR, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Maoist China, Brazil, Argentina, and etc. Even nations that bitterly fought with the US came to prefer dealing with the US. Chinese preferred the US to USSR. Vietnamese came to prefer US over China and Russia.
So, Jews have a precious asset in controlling this brand. ‘AMERICAN’ really means something in the world. Many people around the world still think of America as essentially Anglo-waspy. Indeed, it’s what attracts them to the American brand.
But are Jews who hide behind the brand of Wasp-America possessed of comparable ‘national/cultural character’? Or is their character more like that of Jordan Belfort, Bernie Madoff, and other crooks of Wall Street?
Is there anyone in today’s US government that compares with George Kennan? Just take a look at Victoria Nuland. Just look at the horse-and-pony show of GOP whores around Sheldon Adelson. Just look at the neo-Czarism of puppets like George W. Bush and Obama. It’s like gangsterism. Corrupt media dragged us into Iraq War. Obama is on the verge of executive order to offer amnesty to millions of illegals.
As long as the brand created by Wasps holds, Jewish ruling elites will get mileage out of it.
But as US keeps acting like a gangster-state at the behest of unscrupulous Jewish elites who helped engineer the Middle East and Ukraine into war zones, the American brand will become tarnished and lose all respect. We might already be there. It no longer feels like we’re living in a democracy bound by rule of law.
Just like Belfort fooled a lot of people with his Waspy-named company, Wall Street was able to sell worthless bundled mortgages all over the world because the American brand had come to be synonymous with trust and reliability. But the financial crash of 2008 revealed all those derivatives/cds/whatever to be worthless crap. The entire world got fleeced like the customers of Belfort. Belfort fooled people not only with waspy label but by bundling worthless penny stocks with bluechip stocks.
Wall Street did the same with derivatives/cs/whatever. It bundled good mortgages with shitty mortgages held by Mexicans and Negroes and ‘white trash’.
And the crooks on Wall Street not only got away but got even richer under Obama, the so-called ‘socialist radical’.
If this is the world we live in, so be it. But it’s about time Jewish elites stop hiding behind the ‘American’ label built up by Wasps. The power that controls the US is globo-Zionist-gangsterism. It’s no longer ‘American’. Yes, Jews have genuine talent and intelligence, but they are lacking in character. It’s downright disgusting what his happening to this country.
As for the Wasps, they’ve been browbeaten with ‘white guilt’ and corrupted with ‘new normal’, what with Mainline Protestantism signing onto ‘gay marriage’ and other nonsense.
Could we rely on the rising tide of Asian-Americans to challenge Jews and speak truth to power? No. Asians don’t have a culture of accountability and ethics either. And they happen to be grinds and teachers’ pets and, as such, will just play second fiddle to Jewish gangster elites.
Finally, as long Jews hide behind the ‘American’ brand and as long as the ‘American’ brand is associated with Anglos/Wasps, all the nasty things done by Jewish elites will be blamed on ‘white Americans’. This must stop.
PS. Jews are so powerful but there’s no accountability. If anyone criticizes them, they bitch and whine that it’s a immutable and universal law that Jews are right even when they’re wrong.
Not true at all. Non-jewish whites are much more patriotic and concerned about things like the impact of massive, unskilled, illiterate brown third-worlders flooding the Western hemisphere. Jews see an upside!
Interesting that he never commented on your Haaretz article, ‘The White Man’s Burden’. That seemed to be the stronger of the two links you supplied to prove your point.
You were insulting Prof. Gottfried, a friend and associate of our host. And Mr. Sailer also writes for Takimag. But then you're a dirtbag and thus don't really care.Replies: @Art Deco
I’m not impressed that Paul Gottfried put his byline on something and do not regard him as authoritative. Dr. Gottfried is a professor at a rank-and-file private college in Pennsylvania who has a reputation for being an instructor of mediocre quality and whose signature in publications for the general reader is to impugn the intelligence of people he has in his gun sights (e.g. Midge Decter &c).
This sort of pretension is bog standard for palaeo commentators, as is trafficking in a number of asinine memes (e.g. those involving Jew conspiracies).
Seems like a lot of Jews in show business have Irish spouses, or are the products of such alliances (Harrison Ford, Michael Landon, Dick Wolf, Ben Stiller and J.J. Abrams are other examples). One wonders if it’s just serendipity or another version of Portnoy-style sexual fixation on Gentiles.
Maybe it’s a result of Irish sexual fixation on Jews? Unless these individuals were the result of rapes, there was presumably mutual attraction.
Ford’s mother is Jewish, not his father:
So what? It takes two to tango. For every part-Jew, there was a non-Jew who wanted to have sex with a Jew.
Can you demonstrate that the sexual attraction would have been explicitly built around the other’s Jewishness, as Jews are wont to obsess over Gentiles for their non-Jewishness?
Or maybe they just, you know, loved each other? I realize that such emotions are probably alien to some people who comment on this blog….
Unlike you, I believe Jefferey Goldberg absolutely believes what he writes, just as he believes that the Palestinians he tortured as a IDF prison guard deserved it.
People like this are true believers — that’s why they write what they do and do what they do.
I had a good laugh stomping on Art Deco in the past
Your use of the word “stomping” to mean “being stepped on” is a little idiosyncratic.
I have not participated in his fora for months and never had any ex parte communications with Dreher on any subject. Much less did I have communications concerning you, whom I only vaguely remember. Nor did I ever issue any 'demands' to Dreher, and it would have been rum to do so. I have no influence on his thinking, he and I in the last dozen years have never had a congenial exchange on any issue, and he repeatedly deleted my remarks at his forum out of esoteric personal pique and eventually had me banned from all fora at The American Conservative (or some intern in his employ forwarded my comments to some uber editor who banned me).Replies: @Anon
I have no influence on his thinking, he and I in the last dozen years have never had a congenial exchange on any issue, and he repeatedly deleted my remarks at his forum out of esoteric personal pique and eventually had me banned from all fora at The American Conservative (or some intern in his employ forwarded my comments to some uber editor who banned me).
I’ve found Dreher to be quick lacking in both intelligence and insight. I can’t really tell whether he’s a conservative, but if he were a little less intelligent, he’d fit right into the lumpen intelligentsia category this blog’s proprietor just invented.