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Jeffrey Epstein and "Foreign Intelligence"
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From the Daily Beast:

Jeffrey Epstein’s Sick Story Played Out for Years in Plain Sight
How did the New York financier stay nearly untouchable for decades? Vicky Ward—who has reported extensively on Epstein, and on efforts to rehabilitate him—finds out what’s changed.Vicky Ward
Updated 07.09.19 1:52PM ET Published 07.09.19 4:35AM ET

For almost two decades, for some nebulous reason, whether to do with ties to foreign intelligence, his billions of dollars, or his social connections, Epstein, whose alleged sexual sickness and horrific assaults on women without means or ability to protect themselves is well-known in his circle, remained untouchable. …

Epstein’s name, I was told, had been raised by the Trump transition team when Alexander Acosta, the former U.S. attorney in Miami who’d infamously cut Epstein a non-prosecution plea deal back in 2007, was being interviewed for the job of labor secretary. The plea deal put a hard stop to a separate federal investigation of alleged sex crimes with minors and trafficking.

“Is the Epstein case going to cause a problem [for confirmation hearings]?” Acosta had been asked. Acosta had explained, breezily, apparently, that back in the day he’d had just one meeting on the Epstein case. He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had “been told” to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta. (The Labor Department had no comment when asked about this.) …

After the one meeting with then-U.S. Attorney Acosta, where presumably “intelligence” was mentioned, the indictment was shelved and, instead, Epstein signed a non-prosecution agreement with federal prosecutors, pleading guilty to one count of solicitation of prostitution and one count of procurement of minors for prostitution, which earned him a cushy 13 months in county jail, from where he was allowed to leave to work at his office and go for walks.

Which “intelligence”?

An interesting aspect is that there is no official explanation of the source of Epstein’s wealth other than that he collected fees for managing a hedge fund.

Interestingly, Epstein’s close associate in nefariousness has been Ghislaine Maxwell, the daughter of Robert Maxwell, a sort of real-life James Bond Villain.

After her father’s spectacular death in 1991, she moved to New York and began an affair with Epstein. Did Jeffrey remind her of Dear Old Dad? Or, perhaps, she saw him as the raw material she could mold into the Man of Her Dreams using all that she had learned from observing her father’s remarkable career?

Way back in the 1980s, I spent the day on the phone working out a small M&A deal with a right hand man of Maxwell, only to have Maxwell himself intervene at the last moment and go back on a promise he had made to my boss regarding the terms. My boss said, Life is too short to deal with people like Maxwell, so we walked away from the deal.

Not too long afterwards, Maxwell fell or jumped from his yacht. Not too long after that, it was discovered that much of his personal wealth had been embezzled from his employees’ pension funds.

I’ve collected a number of interesting stories about Maxwell here, including how Rupert Murdoch always insisted that even though Robert Maxwell and him had the same initials and were in similar businesses, they weren’t much alike at all. And then there’s the eulogy at Maxwell’s funeral in Jerusalem:

No fewer than six serving and former heads of the Israeli intelligence community listened as Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir eulogized: “He has done more for Israel than can today be said” (Gideon’s Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad, St. Martin’s Press, 1999).[23]

From The Telegraph in 2003:

FO suspected Maxwell was a Russian agent, papers reveal
By Lydia Bell
12:01AM GMT 02 Nov 2003

British intelligence officers suspected that Robert Maxwell, the disgraced publisher, was a Soviet agent, according to Foreign Office papers which have just been released.

After the former Mirror newspapers chief and ex-Labour MP died at sea on November 5 1991, there was widespread speculation that he might have been a double or even a triple agent, but the FBI found nothing in a decade of monitoring him, despite his known links with MI6, the KGB and the Israeli intelligence service Mossad.

However, his file, titled “Captain Ian Maxwell”, at the National Archives in Kew, London, has been found to contain reports submitted to the Information Research Department (IRD), a covert unit of the Foreign Office, describing him as “a thoroughly bad character and almost certainly financed by Russia”.

Correspondence between various members of the IRD reveal that the Czech-born Maxwell had been considered to be a suspicious figure directly after the Second World War, when Maxwell, then a lieutenant in the British Army, was working for the British Control Commission in Berlin – an allied administrative body.

Digby Ackland, of the IRD, wrote in a 1959 report that “Capt Maxwell’s questionable activities have been brought to the notice of the Foreign Office on several occasions over the past 10 years”.

Maxwell established Pergamon Press, which specialised in scientific books from Germany and Eastern bloc countries. Despite the Foreign Office suspicions, he became a Labour MP in 1964. He maintained links with Russian leaders until his death.

 
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  1. The media’s attempt to pass this creep off as a right winger is so shameless. They’ll probably try and tie him to Russia, Russia, Russia.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Seneca44
  2. How did the New York financier stay nearly untouchable for decades?

    Are you freakin’ kidding me with that question?! You stay untouchable when your clients are ex and future US Presidents and high officials and their kin. Hell, I don’t follow too much of the weird (but possibly true) conspiracy theories on the pizza parlors, the sex-slave islands, etc, but even I have heard of this guy for 10 years or more. Nobody, but nobody ever said he was going to get in trouble with the law.

    Mr. Epstein should have held onto his best clients. Remember, Jeff, the customer is always right … no matter how sick.

  3. JimDandy says:

    Good call, Padre. It was DEFINITELY Zambia.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  4. All of Broward County I think is run by a certain foreign intelligence. I don’t know if its my inner tin foil hat Dale Gribble but 9/11 hijackers, Epstein, Wasserman Schultz’s little computer fiasco, getting rid of ballots on election day, cops standing down on a school shooting (with one of the resulting anti gun spokesmen being a child of FBI agent). I don’t think all those things are from malign entities, but gee golly, it sure is a lot for one county…

    • Replies: @Bubba
    , @J.Ross
    , @Anon
  5. Hockamaw says:

    This Epstein situation is the most fascinating story to come out in a long time. I really can’t figure it out. The most vexing question of many is “why now?”

    By the way, do a google image search for “Epstein Clinton” right now. It will pull up about 80% pictures of Epstein and Trump!!

  6. Another vote for Zambia intelligence.

  7. 216 says:

    This Maxwell connection is telling…

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  8. Precious says:

    This is a pretty good sign Trump now has an enormous advantage in his war with rogue intelligence agencies and the Deep State.

    • Replies: @Ibound1
    , @Jack Hanson
  9. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cultural Inappropriation

    Thousands in donations to democratic candidates and pacs as well as Israeli entities. Affluent Jews like epstein providing the vast majority of funding to the democratic party of course. Epstein, Weinstein etc.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  10. Goatweed says:

    Haven’t found the secret Amish heartland, my vote will be with Zambia.

    • Replies: @Herzog
  11. Lugash says:

    Well, Preet seems to have known to keeps his hands off of the pedo. And the rest of the US Attorneys seem to have stayed silent, Vicky Ward’s reporting was driven by the victims.

  12. Kylie says:

    Intelligence? Well, that lets Trump off the hook since no leftist believes he has any. Of course, the left would claim he had intelligence equal to that of a rocket scientist or one of those black ladies who sent undeserving white men into space if that would bring him down.

    • Replies: @Anon
  13. Checked Google image – Epstein Clinton- 2nd, 6th, 15th, 18th had Trump image involved. What a search engine, not what I want but what I should need!

    • LOL: Kronos
    • Replies: @J.Ross
  14. Bubba says:
    @Senator Brundlefly

    True about Broward, but it was Palm Beach County was where Epstein committed his crimes, went to court and received a pat on the wrist for his pedophilia crimes.

  15. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kylie

    Epstein is a Mossad agent.

    His GF Ghislaine Maxwell (whose media magnate father Robert Maxwell was outed as Mossad by Seymor Hersh) helped him procure underaged girls.

    He was given billions of dollars by clothing Mogul Leslie Wexner, who is a huge benefactor of Israeli charities.

    His lawyer is Alan Dershowitz.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  16. OT (you all know I don’t do this much), but: RIP, H. Ross Perot.

    He was a more-effective and smarter, proto-Trump, who, if you recall, got 19% of the American popular vote in the presidential election of 1992, even after dropping out of the race and coming back in.

    Embrace the suck(ing sound)!

  17. Also I’m curious, how do you feel about his connections to Steven Pinker?

  18. Paul says:

    “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta.

    Who, specifically, does Alexander Acosta claim told him that? The attorney general?

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    , @lysias
  19. BB753 says:

    My guess is Epstein was a double agent for the FBI and the Mossad and fell out of favor with one or the two agencies for some undisclosed reason. You’d think his position and blackmail material would make him untouchable. It’s baffling.

    • Agree: JimDandy
  20. @Bubba

    I don’t get it – what’s the joke with Zambia?

    • Replies: @another fred
  21. Polynikes says:

    What’s the theory on his wealth (or lack there of)? The first I heard of it was last night. Seems like having a billion dollars would be hard to fake.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @Kratoklastes
  22. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    What were the “horrific assaults” that writer mentions? I thought Epstein just paid underage teens to have sex.

  23. The fact that Schumer and Pelosi are frothing at the mouth to get Acosta fired tells you they are trying to spin the narrative in their favor. The local DA had all the incriminating evidence on this guy and punted, Acosta could only get federal charges which were far less devastating, so he took what he could get.

    Pelosi’s own daughter warned the Dems that the party was going to get hammered on the Epstein connection over the weekend.

    • Replies: @Anon
  24. J.Ross says:

    Nice that an obvious Mossad kompromat operation can be spun as Evil Trump corruptly having his Evil appointee help out his co-photograph-subject (the connection!) via time travel. How dare a lawyer do a plea deal. We already know from previous releases that Hillary was on that plane more often than Bill, I’m sure they’ll get around to mentioning that.
    Phone numbers and celebrity names were in the document release, but I don’t know that this proves anything. Politicals would be the probable target and possibles would be cultivated or approached but not necessarily take the bait. As always, earlier “conspiratorial” fears are borne out, real data is made harder than it should be to come by, and the lyingpress does everything it can to obscure the situation.
    —–
    Think Seattle is all sunrain? That’s a stabbing!
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-goes-stabbing-spree-strips-clothes-downtown-seattle-attack-n1027931
    Coulter’s Law bonus: race not specified, perp behavior redolent of every other time a brother took some angel dust, and yet, random mass stabbings are what Han do when they get really really angry (and Seattle would have FOTBs doing things traditionally).

    • Replies: @anon
  25. J.Ross says:
    @Senator Brundlefly

    And don’t forget the federal prosecutor who came to Shadowed Broward County to investigate the hilariously obvious vote fraud and then “committed suicide” on the beach.

  26. guest says:

    “How…untouchable for decades?”

    Quid pro quo. Kompromat. This isn’t rocket spycraft.

  27. guest says:

    “Acosta had explained, breazily, apparently”

    Oh, was that apparent? What an odd string of words.

  28. J.Ross says:

    It’s not letting me link the normal Amazon link but the title is Robert Maxwell, Israel’s Superspy.
    https://www.wrmea.org/003-september/book-review-robert-maxwell-israel-s-superspy.html

  29. Greatest allies for life, right goyims?

  30. J.Ross says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    There’s different kinds, especially if you’re a pathologically insecure old dweeb seeking to massively overcompensate and your partner is unlikely to go to the police.

  31. If Trump wants to save his presidency he should treat this scandal not as a problem but an opportunity. Use his powers of declassification to once and for all expose the corruption of American politics by Israel. Epstein, 9/11, the whole thing.

    Problem is, he’s probably being blackmailed himself.

    Heck, it was probably Israel who really stole the DNC emails and gave them to Wikileaks!

    • LOL: IHTG
  32. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:

    This kind of stuff can be really jarring to those of us naive folk who believe that the rule of law exists, or ever did.

    A bunch of years ago, a car dealer/land developer from Port Jefferson. Long Island, was arrested by the Feds for ripping off General Motors Finance for many hundreds of millions of dollars (this type of scheme is depicted, in miniature, in the movie “Fargo”).

    He offered up for prosecution a bunch of local Brookhaven Town board and planning board members who, he said, had allowed him to bribe them (in the strange vocab. of federal law, this act is referred to as “extortion”…by the board members).

    He appeared as the key witness in federal court against them…assistant U.S. attorney prosecuting was Loretta Lynch, of all people. She did a pretty good job, by the way, but I think they all skated but one…the feds got him on tax charges, failure to report or something.

    No one could understand why the car dealer got such a splendid plea deal in exchange for his testimony…as I remember, he did not go to jail, and was allowed to keep a good part of his money (he was very wealthy). But, during his testimony, it was revealed that in prior years he had participated in running military arms to the middle east, I suppose with the consent of the feds then in power. I don’t mean pistols and such, by the way, the value of the weapons was in the hundreds of millions of dollars. I was in court for his testimony.

    That kind of explained the whole mess. When it comes to folks like Epstein, we are a lot like the people in the cave that Plato talked about. We just see shadows. Sometimes there will be a ray of light during a court proceeding or something like that, and some of the true facts are exposed. Let’s hope so.

    • Agree: Cortes, utu
  33. J.Ross says:
    @Too Observant

    Let it all come out. Trump bumped into him once or twice in New York society and the Clintons were regular customers. It’ll be just like the Ukrainian woman that Clinton’s opposition research team Fusion GPS had trespass in Trump Tower, who was eventually told by Don Jr to leave: “a meeting.”

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    , @Hail
  34. Anonymous[363] • Disclaimer says:

    According to Netanyahu’s son, the Daily Mail’s “unidentified man arrives with his own security detail at Jeffrey Epstein’s New York Mansion” is Ehud Barak:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3405407/The-busy-life-Jeffrey-Epstein-Group-gorgeous-Manhattan-girls-billionaire-pedophile-s-mansion-flies-private-jet-attractive-brunette.html

  35. https://www.wrmea.org/003-september/book-review-robert-maxwell-israel-s-superspy.html

    Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, September 2003, page 85

    Book Review

    Robert Maxwell, Israel’s Superspy: The Life and Murder of a Media Mogul

    …When asked to spy for Israel’s Mossad, Israel’s CIA, Maxwell eagerly accepted because of his great love for Israel—although the money he made in Israel was also to his liking. Following a visit to Israel Maxwell said that he had traveled everywhere in the world and Israel was the only place where he felt at home. In Israel he found the faith he thought he had lost. Viewing himself as a savior of Israel’s ailing industries, he shrewdly bought ailing Israeli companies and turned them into successful enterprises. Some of the companies became covers for Mossad. Maxwell also used his many contacts in the Russian government to work tirelessly to enable Russian Jews to immigrate to Israel.

    As Maxwell made his rounds from capital to capital, meeting world leaders and exchanging gossip with them, the Mossad used him as its eyes and ears. The spy agency saw him as someone who could pass through any door in any capital and learn secrets to which even the Mossad could not be privy. Maxwell also become a source of information for his intelligence contacts in the Eastern Bloc, including the KGB.

    Robert Maxwell traveled the world and peddled Promis, software the Israelis stole from Inslaw, the American company that developed the program. Promis could track data on any target subject by querying and integrating information from innumerable electronic databases, without requiring reprogramming. The theft took place when the Mossad’s Rafi Eitan traveled to the United States impersonating an assistant prosecutor in the Israeli Ministry of Justice in Tel Aviv and met with William Hamilton, the inventor of Promis, at Inslaw. After his meeting with Hamilton, Eitan immediately went to the Department of Justice, and, through serendipity, acquired a copy of Promis. Eiten then worked through former Mossad agent Ari Ben Menashe, who found Yahuda Ben-Hanan in California’s Silicon Valley to construct a back door to the program. This enabled the Mossad to monitor Promis and obtain the information the program developed as it worked for all who used it—friend and foe alike.

    With the help of former Texas Senator John Tower, Maxwell managed to sell the software to the Los Alamos Laboratories, thus making Israel’s Mossad privy to the innermost secrets of American atomic energy programs. When Promis was sold to Credit Suisse, Israel was able to follow the money flows from any government or business agency that used the bank.

    Eventually the Mossad adopted the same process used by the CIA to hide its own money distributions. Maxwell ultimately sold Promis software worth over $500 million to the intelligence agencies of Zimbabwe, South Africa, Guatemala, Colombia, Nicaragua, Bulgaria, Egypt, East Germany, Poland, Belgium, Turkey, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand and China, to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the KGB—all of whom the Mossad monitored as Promis developed intelligence for the benefit of the owner—and, unknowingly, the Mossad…

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Kaganovitch
  36. peterike says:

    So. Can we talk about Jews now?

    No? Ok.

  37. J.Ross says:
    @Anonymous

    A Mossadnik Fritzl and a literal white slave trading brainwashing cult — both, wierdly enough, dependent on Zionist megadonors, and both massively plugged in to politicians, especially Democrats. What next? Anyone willing to bet money that there are no yet-to-drop High Wierdness shoes?

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  38. Flip says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    He might have been a decent president, actually.

  39. @Flip

    No doubt in my mind. Also, he would have had a more civil, even if still hell-bent on national destruction, crowd on both sides of the aisle back then.

  40. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Unladen Swallow

    Clinton traveled on Epstein’s “Lolita Express” jet on 27 occasions. Often without Secret Service.

    Hillary also went on Epstein’s jet.

    The Clintons are in a lot of trouble.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Prester John
  41. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Senator Brundlefly

    South Florida has a heavy Jewish presence.

    Also, lots of low class or shady hustler types too. Even White gentile South Floridians are often quite “Florida Man.”

  42. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Good post.

    I actually think the rule of law applies to 99.9% of the population. However, if you’re apart of the super elite, powerful people will pull strings for you.

    Do you think regular guys like us could’ve gotten away with running a trafficking ring? Not freakin likely.

    If we did 1% of what Epstein did, we’d in jail for years and have our lives ruined.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  43. Hail says: • Website
    @Flip

    Ross Perot
    He preached ‘America First’ before it was cool —
    — and actually meant it.
    Rest in Peace.

  44. @Achmed E. Newman

    RIP to the most intelligent President this great nation never had:

    • Agree: Ibound1
  45. RFK was to be Sen. Joe McCarthy’s chief counsel at the height of the Senator’s influence but Roy Cohn was chosen instead. Roy Cohn became Trump’s attorney shortly before Cohn died of AIDS. A couple of days ago, this link worked, but FaceBook refused to permit it to be posted because of “community guidelines”. At present it times out with “Host Error”:

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/01/28/trumps-ties-to-mossad-cia-pedophile-ring/

    However, archive.org has a live copy that’s not as likely to go away as Google’s cache:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190330044625/https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/01/28/trumps-ties-to-mossad-cia-pedophile-ring/

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  46. syonredux says:
    @Flip

    He might have been a decent president, actually.

    Too unstable.

    • Replies: @anon
  47. SFG says:

    I didn’t believe Pizzagate.

    I still don’t think that particular pizza parlor had anything to do with trafficking. But evidently stuff like this is a lot more common than I thought.

  48. @Paul

    The Director of the F.B.I., Robert Mueller.

  49. Hail says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen

    Epstein just paid underage teens to have sex.

    Dozens of girls as young as 14 (and younger?); paid victims to recruit others; enticed rich and powerful men to join in, and provided them with underage girls; secretly made tapes for blackmail…

    “Epstein was essentially operating a sexual pyramid scheme.” – Detective Joseph Recarey, Palm Beach Police Department, lead detective on the Epstein case.

    Jen-Lisa Jones … says Epstein molested her when she was 14 … “A word can trigger something. For me, it is the word ‘pure’ because he called me ‘pure’ in that room and then I remember what he did to me in that room.’’

    One word comes to mind for Epstein:

    Satanic.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @BB753
  50. Tiny Duck says:

    Trump was a customer in this sick oedophike stuff
    If you still don’t hate Trumo after this then you are evil

    • Troll: Haruto Rat
    • Replies: @Corn
    , @Anonymous
    , @Dale
  51. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    If even half the rumors swirling around Epstein are true it will be the trial of the century.

    Question: what threshold of scandalous-famous dirt would Epstein need to provide in order for SDNY to give him a halfway decent plea agreement?

    • Replies: @Dale
  52. newrouter says:
    @SFG

    >But evidently stuff like this is a lot more common than I thought.<

    Yep the world is stranger than you think.

  53. KunioKun says:

    Epstein is such a fool. If he just hired a bunch of trans, lesbians, gays, and POCs for make-work jobs he could get in front of the cameras and claim he was making the world a better place. He’d be untouchable. Maybe a sweater vest too.

    I have an even better idea, he could make a wizbang cool app for 14 year old girls, but before you can use it, you have to give it access to your contact list and agree to have sex with Jeffrey Epstein and his friends.

  54. @Dave Pinsen

    What were the “horrific assaults” that writer mentions? I thought Epstein just paid underage teens to have sex.

    Yes, the horrific sexual assaults seem to have been mostly getting handjobs, maybe blowjobs, from girls "as young as 14", so legally underage, yes, but not little children who were encouraged with financial incentives to bring along others. No claims of pregnancies or abortions procured, as far as I know from what has been reported.

    It is a kind of Rotherham-like thing, isn't it?

    The average age of entry into prostitution is 12 years old.
    Some children in the county’s foster care system are being recruited as child prostitutes from emergency shelters or group homes, members of the L.A. County Board of Supervisors acknowledged Tuesday.

    And of youth arrested on prostitution charges in Los Angeles County, a majority comes from the county’s foster care system, the Los Angeles Times reported, citing county officials. The newspaper said that, according to the county, “in some cases, pimps use underage sex workers to recruit fellow group home residents.”

    “The average age of entry into prostitution is 12 years old, and the
    average life expectancy following entry is seven years,” said Supervisor
    Michael Antonovich, citing sources from the U.S. Department of Justice and the
    FBI.

    How youth in county foster care, particularly in the emergency shelter, would be able to leave the shelter was not immediately clear. But as the accompanying video shows, the typical approach to young girls is to shower them with attention gifts, and a recruiter or pimp can earn up to $140,000 per child.

    https://patch.com/california/belmontshore/county-foster-kids-recruited-as-child-prostitutes

  55. Corvinus says:

    “Which “intelligence”?”

    Really, Mr. Sailer? Haven’t you heard that Epstein is actually a Mossad agent?

    • Replies: @peterike
  56. Corvinus says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “What were the “horrific assaults” that writer mentions? I thought Epstein just paid underage teens to have sex.”

    Right, because there isn’t any assault would have taken place of a horrific nature between Epstein and his buddies who forced young girls against their will for intercourse.

    Next time, think before you type.

  57. Clyde says:

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/07/boom-reporter-sarnoff-pilot-logs-reveal-almost-every-time-bill-clinton-flew-on-epsteins-lolita-express-underage-girls-were-on-the-plane-video/

    During their discussion Sarnoff told Shannon Bream that Bill Clinton flew on the Lolita Express 27 times.

    Then she dropped this BOMB!…

    Sarnoff said that ALMOST EVERY TIME that Clinton was on the plane via the pilot logs there were underage girls on the plane.
    Conchita said Clinton refused her request for an interview.

    Conchita Sarnoff: I know from the pilot logs. And these were pilot logs that were written by different pilots at different times, that Clinton went, he was a guest of Epstein 27 times… Many times Clinton had his Secret Service with him and many he did not. Almost every time Clinton’s name is on the pilot log, there are underage girls.

    She also said BILL CLINTON IS LYING about his limited contact with Jeffrey Epstein.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  58. JimDandy says:

    He’s a three-star general in the Mossad Honeypot Division. End of story.

  59. JimDandy says:
    @Corvinus

    It’s a bit overwrought. He was pimping runaway teens. Shitty, but not particularly rare. Sounds callous to say, but I’m sure that as far as runaway teens who start turning tricks are concerned, Epstein’s teen prostitutes had it a helluva lot better than most.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  60. Hail says: • Website
    @Corvinus

    young girls

    Reports that many were age 14, some 13. Rumor has it that some were younger still.

  61. Hail says: • Website
    @SFG

    I can’t believe it, but Alex Jones Was Right.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  62. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    This article mentions pre-teens as well, not just teens:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-of-minors-source

    Brunel supplied Epstein with girls as young as 12, luring aspiring models from poor countries or poor backgrounds to the United States, Giuffre alleged.

  63. Achilles says:

    Undoubtedly that was Mueller’s FBI warning off Acosta with claims that Epstein was “intelligence.”

    And almost certainly the same FBI personnel who warned off Acosta were the ones leaking to the press that Epstein was some sort of a human source or key witness in the prosecution of Bear Stearns portfolio managers (which in fact Epstein was not), as a way to justify the ultra-sweetheart deal Epstein got from federal prosecutors.

    The “intelligence” ploy is an old one. During the Clinton administration the story was circulated in DC of “intelligence” that Vince Foster was involved in anti-US espionage. Investigators (including Ken Starr and Brett Kavanaugh) seemed happy to close the books on Foster without tying up the loose ends.

    The “intelligence” that Donald Trump was a Russian agent was told to many in DC. Paul Ryan must have been told. And all or most of the neocons. The idea conceived was probably that the silly Billy Bush ‘Access Hollywood’ tape would be the public pretext to force Trump the Russian agent to surrender the nomination with foolish cheap-foreign-labor GOPe pimps like Ryan giving Trump the critical push, thinking they were saving the country from a Russian agent as president. Instead, Trump gave them the middle finger.

    Once Buzzfeed published the “intelligence” everyone could see what a risibly shoddy piece of trash it was. Perhaps not the response Buzzfeed expected; some things have more credibility when merely hinted at or whispered than actually divulged outright.

    Anyway, it’s a Zambian world and we’re all just living in it.

  64. @Anonymous

    When it comes to folks like Epstein, we are a lot like the people in the cave that Plato talked about.

    This. He is protected by spies. He can only be attacked by spies. This is Spy v. Spy. When they get together and negotiate a truce we ain’t going to be privy to the terms. Trying to figure this stuff out drove Angleton nuts.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  65. From all I’ve read it seems Epstein runs an international sex trafficking-racketeering ring with his pal Edgar Bronfman, former CEO of Seagram and one time president of World Jewish Congress, under the direction of Mossad. Bronfman and his daughters “invested” in a company called NXIVM which is now being charged with operating as a front for sex trafficking. The hedge fund is just a front, nothing but a bank account for the rich to deposit their ransom money. This Mossad operation has been key in ensuring Israel’s “right to exist”.

    Zerohedge is reporting that his little black book contains lots of big names from Hollywood, Wall Street, US politics, globalist billionaires, royalty, several foreign presidents and a famous prime minister(I’m guessing Tony Blair).

    This should explain why so many of our Congress Critters are such eager Zionists: Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Lindsay Graham, Pompeo, Bolton…all are probably in his black book. Acosta was hired because the Trump admin probably thought the case was dead and buried, they didn’t think a single brave judge Paul Cassell would bring this case back to life by claiming violation of victims rights.

  66. @Dave Pinsen

    What were the “horrific assaults” that writer mentions? I thought Epstein just paid underage teens to have sex.

    Looks like Epstein and his pals are not the only ones whose depravity know no bounds.

    • LOL: Rosie
    • Replies: @utu
  67. Anon[359] • Disclaimer says:

    From Tennessee,

    The Americanthinker.com has an article speculating on Epstein running a honey trap operation. I thought the blackmail angle was obvious when it came out years ago that Epstein had hidden cameras in guest bedrooms all over the Palm Beach Mansion.

    Clinton flew on Epsteins 727 full sized jet dubbed, The Lolita Express, some 27 times. The secret service was not, according to one journalist, always on board, and would meet up at the landing destination with Clinton. One doesnt have to worry about law enforcement breaking down the doors of a moving plane. Epstein had more properties than he should have been able to afford.

    Look for George Will to really dig and get to the bottom of this in tommorows Washington “Poast”.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  68. @J.Ross

    Let it all come out. Trump bumped into him once or twice in New York society and the Clintons were regular customers.

    Nice take, there were lots of fundraisers, lunches and parties, everyone knows everyone up there (NYC). Trump unambiguously crowed that he donated to both parties’ candidates over the years. Bill Clinton belonged to one or the other of Trump’s clubs for fuck’s sake, which means ALL of them. For all we know he hits Trump Long Island, whatever it’s called for three rounds a week to this day. Or maybe the one in Jersey. Now, should Trump’s name turn up on a manifest we can talk. Any other cross-pollination between these sorts is incidental to being in business in New York. CNN spent lots of time on it tonight trying to connect Trump to Epstein, not a mention of the tens of trips and months overall that Clinton spent down there. It’s UN-fookin-believeable.

    CNN knows damned well Epstein ran a spider-trap, a web, for politicians they need on the side of Jewish interests and the coin of the realm in those circles is pussy. And bribes. And blackmail. The whole shebang is busted, we know the who and when. Dunno if this is the big one. Now what about Hillary, did she go down to feast on Baby-Clams?

    I’ll take Hillary-The-Clammer giving 7 points.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
  69. Strangely, this Epstein-as-protected-spook-despite-[edophilia sounds like an early episode of NCIS. Specifically, season 2’s 17th episode entitled “An Eye for an Eye”.

    In short, in the episode it turns out U.S. intelligence knowingly allows and protects a known pedophile/intelligence analyst to run around the globe with underage girls because he gets good intel on terrorism from his foreign contacts.

    The series wiki offers a long run down of the episode, but I’d suggest watching it somewhere if you can. Might give you the chills these days about Epstein and what the show writers knew: https://ncis.fandom.com/wiki/An_Eye_for_an_Eye_%28episode%29

    They make the pedophile’s foreign area of knowledge/travel to be South America, not Israel. NCIS is a show that takes great pains to make Israel always look good, to the extent that it literally had a long-term central character be an Israeli Mossad agent “on loan” to NCIS for years who is portrayed as loyal and true and always on the side of justice. To bring things full circle this character was played by….a Hispanic actress from South America.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    , @Father O'Hara
  70. @SFG

    The Pizza dude’s Instagram had some sick shit on it, likewise the Podesta brother’s taste (sic) in art.

    • Agree: Ibound1
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    , @Dieter Kief
  71. Anonymous[996] • Disclaimer says:

    And then there’s the eulogy at Maxwell’s funeral in Jerusalem:

    Why was his funeral held in Jerusalem?

  72. @Hail

    He got the 2016 election right.

    He was right about the Russia Hoax being a hoax.

    And, despite his hyperbole, he’s been right all along about chemicals increasing homosexual behavior in amphibians (“making the freakin’ frogs gay”) and about the downsides of fluoride.

    The more you watch him, the more he nails correctly. It’s terrifying but true: Jones is more reliable than the corporate media giants you grew up with.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Digital Samizdat
  73. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Corvinus

    Has it been alleged anyone was forced against her will?

    Not that it isn’t immoral and illegal to pay underage girls for sex, but “horrific assault” suggests something else entirely.

    Attempting to clarify what the writer was referring to doesn’t make me a bad guy, so you can save your outrage for someone who deserves it.

    • Agree: mark green
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    , @Corvinus
  74. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Hail

    Okay, but I asked specifically about the “horrific assault” claim.

    • Replies: @CAL2
    , @annamaria
  75. JimB says:

    Jeffrey Epstein was a one man Rotherham.

  76. @Achmed E. Newman

    who, if you recall, got 19% of the American popular vote in the presidential election of 1992,

    And gave us Bill Clinton in the process. In retrospect, not a very desirable outcome.

  77. Excal says:
    @Flip

    I believe Mr. Perot (RIP) was a Farage-type candidate, who ran specifically to cause trouble. He had no intention of becoming President, and I think he would have been an exceptionally poor one.

    Successful businessmen are often disastrously bad politicians, I think because they assume that the politics of government and business are interchangeable. Old businessmen are unused to learning new things, they have a hard time hearing that they’re wrong, and they tend to make enemies much too freely. Hence, they rarely last long in politics.

    (Admittedly this is just a theory .. counterexamples welcome. I’m having a hard time thinking of any ..

    .. except, of course, for Mr. Trump — but he is neither a typical businessman, nor a typical politician. His main line of work was New York City real-estate, which is mainly political, and self-promotion, which is a useful and necessary skill for a politician. And his political career began, and presumably will end, with the US Presidency. So I don’t think he counts.)

    • Replies: @utu
  78. @Hockamaw

    By the way, do a google image search for “Epstein Clinton” right now. It will pull up about 80% pictures of Epstein and Trump!!

    Google’s doing a better job than ever at “managing” the news. The number of “disappearances” lately is frankly amazing.

    Maxwell fell or jumped from his yacht.

    Fell, jumped, was pushed, whatever. The nifty thing is how readily his body was recovered and then whipped back to the Promised Land for a kosher ‘autopsy’.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    , @Anonymous
  79. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    For once, I agree with you.

    Pinsen’s comment is bizarre.

  80. Andy says:

    I suspect he is a mole of Botswana’s intelligence service

    • Replies: @Dale
  81. Anon[245] • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of the sex scandals of the 2016-2019 period are just fallout from the culture of the 1960s, in which a certain segment of the male population imbibed the ideology that when it came to sex, anything was allowed. These guys got taken by surprise by the New Puritanism.

  82. Wilkey says:

    So Epstein and his gf Maxwell were both working for Mossad, acquiring blackmail material on various US leaders by getting video of them screwing underage girls.

    Sounds like a great plan…until the American public learns that the leadership of “our closest ally” was blackmailing US leaders and doing so by having them rape underage American girls.

    If that’s really what was happening then the shit really should hit the fan. That isn’t blackmail material *for* Israel. It’s blackmail material *against* Israel. Not that it doesnt mean that Israel wouldnt do it, but still you’d have to be a real dumbass to dream that one up. It’s a hell of a lot easier to buy American poltiicans the old fashioned way, which Israel has already done quite handsomely.

  83. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG

    In Podesta’s e-mails, he discusses using Uber to transport 3 kids (whose ages were specified) who they were not the parents of. The kids were referred to as “entertainment.” The e-mail also specified the children would be placed in the pool.

    Make of that what you will.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  84. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @R.G. Camara

    He comes across as over the top and can be outlandish at times, but he’s generally correct on most matters. Far more than mainstream “respectable” media.

    That’s why they banned him.

    • Replies: @Flip
  85. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey

    Blackmail is way more reliable.

    You can turn against your benefactors.

    Your blackmailer owns you until you die.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  86. Anonymous[500] • Disclaimer says:

    Strange Maxwell fact No. 1 :

    Robert Maxweall produced that quirky, off-beat, pseudo AmericanAmerican 1960s cartoon ‘Dodo the Kid from Outer Space’, which was intermittently broadcast on UK TV in the 1970s.

  87. Anonymous[500] • Disclaimer says:

    Let’s not go overboard on Maxwell.

  88. JimDandy says:
    @Wilkey

    Are you, like, parodying what a Hasbarah operative would post? If so, great job–your imitation is uncanny.

    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/1.5121341

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  89. Mr. Anon says:

    There are copies of Epstein’s “little black book” floating around on the internet.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-08/shtf-lets-revisit-jeffrey-epsteins-little-black-book

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07/09/former-marvel-comics-jeffrey-epstein-little-black-book/

    It was stolen in 2009 by the Alfredo Rodriguez, the butler at one of Epstein’s properties. Rodriguez hoped to sell it to a media outlet, but was caught and convicted of obstruction of justice and sent to prison where he died after a “long illness”. Interestingly, the lead police detective who investigated Epstein in Palm Beach died last year, at the age of 50, after a short illness. Proximity to Epstein seems to cause illness.

    The book contains a lot of names, as you would expect for a well-connected New York billionaire, or even “billionaire”. Kennedys (lots of em’, including Ted), Shrivers, Pritzkers, Edgar Bronfman Jr., John Kerry, George Mitchell, Henry Kissinger, Mick Jagger, Murray Gell-Mann, Alan Dershowitz, Courtney Love, Ehud Barak, Tony Blair, David Koch, Candace Bushnell, Michael Bloomberg, plus a bunch of actors like Ralph Fiennes, John Cleese, and Minnie Driver, and others. A “Paul Allan” is listed – maybe that’s the “Paul Allen” (other names in the book are mispelled) or maybe not. No Clintons are in the book, but Cheryl Mills – Hillary’s consigliere over the last few years – is.

    Epstein ostensibly had a variety of interests outside of his sybaritic pursuits, science reputedly being one of them, so that might explain some of the egg-heads on the list. And it’s not that strange that a billionaire living in New York City would have the mayor’s personal number. Many people on the list – perhaps most of them – were probably not involved in his kink and perhaps didn’t even know about it.

    But I reckon some of them did.

    His story is rather odd too. He dropped out of college, yet got a job teaching calculus and physics at The Dalton School, which I gather is a prestigious prep school in New York City. He was hired into that job by Donald Barr, the father of the current US Attorney General, William Barr. Epstein was then hired by the father of one of his pupils to work at Bear Stearns, and eventually impressed Leslie Wexner enough to become his financial guru, or something.

    Perhaps Epstein is one of those spies in the entrepreneurial style, like Maxwell or Sidney Reilly, who was a spy, conman, war profiteer, and probably a murderer.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @gcochran
    , @anon
    , @backup
  90. @BB753

    Maybe he stopped sharing the “good” stuff. Or started selling it to the wrong people?

  91. Mr. Anon says:
    @Wilkey

    The carrot works better when accompanied by the stick. It isn’t clear to me that Israel would need a character like Epstein to blackmail American politicians. I would think they could get all the actionable black-mail info they wanted via their hooks into American telecommunications.

  92. @Dave Pinsen

    Look at the bright side. We now know that C is one of those commenters, that if Adolf came back, would explain how he’s a tool of the Joos.

  93. Anonymous[272] • Disclaimer says:

  94. Not too long afterwards, Maxwell fell or jumped from his yacht.

    Isn’t the phrase usually “jumped, fell, or was pushed”?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @lysias
  95. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    Believe it or not… Stabby is whitish male mental case. Suffering from TDS?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  96. El Dato says:
    @Eddie Collins

    I don’t understand this Promis thing. How is it supposed to “track data on any target subject by querying and integrating information from innumerable electronic databases”? Very magical. How does selling it Los Alamos Labs (what would they do with it? they build nukes) enable one to spy on Los Alamos Labs?

  97. El Dato says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    There were sharks in the water. He thought they were friends.

  98. Rosie says:
    @Anon

    In Podesta’s e-mails, he discusses using Uber to transport 3 kids (whose ages were specified) who they were not the parents of. The kids were referred to as “entertainment.” The e-mail also specified the children would be placed in the pool.

    The explanations of various slices of pizzagate have been woefully inadequate, almost taunting in their dismissal of the internet sleuths’ discoveries. I still can’t get over this one:

  99. Ibound1 says:

    Epstein is no agent. He’s a well dressed pimp and creep. I hope he talks and talks and talks.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    , @backup
  100. LondonBob says:

    Maxwell was working for the (((Russians))). From reading about Angleton it seems the Israelis used to trade information with both sides and thus improve their own position.

    Epstein also seems to be a bag man for Wexner who is a very prominent Israeli donor with reported Jewish mob ties.

    Interesting thing about Maxwell is that Alistair Campbell, along with Peter Mandelson the man behind Tony Blair, worked for him. Campbell set up the Israeli slush fund that backed Blair and New Labour and was the driving force behind falsifying the Iraq War intelligence.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  101. Pericles says:
    @Polynikes

    The most convincing theory I’ve read goes like this (from Zerohedge, I think):

    Epstein throws underage sex parties for his well-heeled pals and records the proceedings in some way. Epstein with a killer powerpoint convinces his pals to invest in his offshore hedge fund, where he puts the money in an S&P 500 index fund and takes 2/20. Epstein hooks up with Mossad to share what he knows. Epstein now is part of the intelligence community. Epstein gets a rising feeling he’s entirely untouchable.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Cowboy shaw
  102. guest says:
    @Anonymous

    “us naive folks who believe that the rule of law exists”

    Forget it, Anonymous[354]. It’s Chinatown.

  103. guest says:
    @Rosie

    It’s a bit incredible to me that the brothers would be snatching kids in the wild themselves. Good help hard to find?

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Rosie
  104. @LondonBob

    Is Alastair Campbell “Malcolm Tucker” in The Thick of It / In the Loop?

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  105. LondonBob says:

    I had read someone who should know saying Barr was a straight shooter and had returned to government work as he was so disgusted with what the Obama and Clinton had done to various US institutions. This and his investigation in to spygate show Barr is the real deal, the counter offensive is progressing well.

  106. How did the New York financier stay nearly untouchable for decades?

    You have to be especially naïve or cynical to ask that question with a straight face.

    For almost two decades, for some nebulous reason, whether to do with ties to foreign intelligence…

    Does it have to be foreign?

    … his billions of dollars…

    If he was a real billionaire, he wouldn’t be in this fix.

    … or his social connections …?

    Funny how they avoid using the P-word … politicians.

    An interesting aspect is that there is no official explanation of the source of Epstein’s wealth other than that he collected fees for managing a hedge fund.

    If he were a real hedgie, there would little doubt about how he made his money, because they trumpet it as loud and often as they can.

    Sure, he might not be an actual spook, but he’s certainly on their payroll.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  107. @Desiderius

    Agreed. Add to that the spirit cooking stuff and you had a lot of proof that we had a group of morally perverted people on there.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  108. LondonBob says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I’ve read the character was inspired by Campbell and Mandelson, I guess their is also a type of person who fills that role, Bernard Ingham did so for Thatcher. Peter Hitchens said he found Blair vacuous and slightly creepy, comes across different on TV as so many do, whilst Mandelson and Campbell were the real brains.

    Of course it could all be a coincidence, like that the probably bizarre coincidence Barr’s father hired Epstein as a teacher.

  109. hhsiii says:

    I think Dave is just asking if in addition to statutory rape and pedophilia did Epstein also beat children.

  110. @SFG

    As Yusuf Islam once put it …

  111. BB753 says:
    @Hail

    OK, but not pedophile. If you are into young women, you’re not into children. That’s a fact. Not to say that Epstein didn’t cater to customers who were interested in prepubescent kids or even younger, that is, to actual pedophiles, but let’s use words properly.

  112. @R.G. Camara

    I will say that in AJ’s defense: even if he were wrong 50% of the time, that’s still a wayyyy better track record than the MSM.

  113. El Dato says:
    @Rosie

    But it would be amazing if John & Tony personally did Maddy.

    It’s liek you are really in Room 1408 and you see the same faces in a different setting just before it hits.

  114. @Desiderius

    A story needs details to unfold – like the pizzaman’s Instagram account you mention. But now (now?) we have the Clintons added to the plot. Stuff like this is irresistible. In the internet age, it becomes world news in an instant.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @J.Ross
  115. El Dato says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Hopefully Top Google is implicated too.

  116. Anonymous[672] • Disclaimer says:
    @El Dato

    Conceivably, the entire PROMIS operation was a smokescreen cooked up to explain the existence of intelligence actually derived through full-spectrum electronic surveillance.

  117. @Clyde

    That’s curious. First, Sarnoff is probably referring to Load Manifests for those flights, not the pilot logs. I’m assuming the Lolita Express was operated und Part 125, which does indeed require load manifests for large aircraft with a seating capcity of 20 or more or a max payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more, and would generally require the names of the pax, but not the birth dates. What’s curious is that the certificate holder for the operated aircraft is only required to hold the manifest for a period of at least 30 days.

    So, Epstein was stupid, or betrayed.

    If they had actually flown internationally, there would have been a requirement for birthdays as well.

    • Replies: @backup
  118. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    The Clintons are in a lot of trouble.

    I’ve been hearing this since 1995

  119. @Ibound1

    He could be an agent. Agents are individuals who are used by intelligence agencies, but not members of those agencies. If I went overseas and told the CIA everything I saw, I would be an agent. If I join the CIA, and go through the training program at Langley, then I would be an officer.

    • Replies: @Ibound1
    , @Hibernian
  120. @Polynikes

    Find me a ‘billionaire’ whose net worth is not almost entirely in the non-listed stock he owns in a company, only 10-15% of which is publicly traded.

    I could structure a VC agreement that would value an arbitrary company at $1b with less than $20k changing hands.

    And I should know: not just because I’m a quant, but also because I’m a multi-trillionaire (I have a $100 trillion note on my desk at all times when I’m at my desk, and in my slingbag when I’m not).

    One hundred trillion dollars, right there on my desk… impressive, if you’re a schlub: then you see “Central Bank of Zimbabwe” on the note and it is less impressive by a dozen orders of magbitude.

    The sorts of people for whom ‘billionaire’ causes a little erection, come in two flavours:
    ① journalists – the majority of whom are journalists because they were too stupid to become schoolteachers (and the NYT’s pre-Iraq work shows you they’re not the best fact-checkers); and
    ② politicians – who don’t give a fuck if it’s true, so long as the cheques clear (and the cheques are for astonishingly small amounts – there are just a very large number of them).

  121. Art Deco says:

    Maxwell established Pergamon Press, which specialised in scientific books from Germany and Eastern bloc countries.

    No, serials. Monographs aren’t a venue for presenting original research in the natural sciences. There were a ton of Pergamon titles back in the day, and they extended into social research adjacent to the natural sciences. We can check, but I don’t think their content was translated; the original publication was in English.

  122. Not too long afterwards, Maxwell fell or jumped from his yacht

    How very strange that no third option is contemplated. Or fourth, for that matter.

    Doubtless you lie awake at night wondering whether which one of Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa is a big faker.

    ③ is that he fled to a secure location and paid a few tax-eaters to get the paperwork in order – that’s the mode of this distribution, without a doubt; and
    ④ is that he was thrown overboard. If you want to off someone and they’re particularly stupid or hubristic, get them on a yacht at night in open water a few dozen miles from shore.

  123. Ibound1 says:
    @Precious

    I am wondering the same. Epstein looks like a pimp to some very important people and even Trump’s long ago comment about Epstein had an undertone of “I know what the hell this guy is”. It’s hard to believe that a prosecution like this is not related to some Trump revenge on the Clintons or some members of our Permanent State. It’s why I don’t believe Epstein was a foreign agent. Because going after Epstein would have foreign policy implications that make no sense right now. But if Epstein was a pimp to the permanent state? Yes. I can see Trump wanting to do something about that.

  124. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    Those sketches bear an uncanny resemblance to the Podesta brothers.

  125. @Intelligent Dasein

    That wasn’t exactly Ross Perot’s fault. So, should anyone not part of the system just stay home, cause he may just tip the elections toward the greater of two evils?

    That’s like saying Donald Trump should have stayed the hell out of the Red-squad primary, as he could easily have thrown the election from ¡Jeb! to Mitt.

  126. peterike says:
    @Corvinus

    “Which “intelligence”?”

    Really, Mr. Sailer? Haven’t you heard that Epstein is actually a Mossad agent?

    That one went right over your head, didn’t it boy?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  127. Brad1982 says:

    3 words for anyone who is stuck on Google image search:

    Duck Duck Go

    First page of their “Epstein Clinton” search shows no Trump.

    • Agree: MBlanc46
  128. Jake says:

    “Interestingly, Epstein’s close associate in nefariousness has been Ghislaine Maxwell, the daughter of Robert Maxwell, a sort of real-life James Bond Villain.”

    Why is that interesting?

    After all, what is unique about the silver spoon daughter of a swashbuckling arch-WASP spy, a MR. WASP of derring-do, slithering into the arms of an utterly amoral Jew and helping him abuse no telling how many?

    Could any 2 peoples be farther apart over the past several centuries, the Modern centuries of Reformation and Enlightenment, in matters such as international foreign policy and globalist economics and morality and amoral acquisition and destruction of cultures than Jews and WASPs?

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @Gordo
  129. @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    This is Spy v. Spy

    No, this is Spy v Spy… “Plastic Cards” – from when the Australian government was trying to introduce a national ID card in the 1980s.

  130. @Eddie Collins

    Eitan immediately went to the Department of Justice, and, through serendipity, acquired a copy of Promis. Eiten then worked through former Mossad agent Ari Ben Menashe, who found Yahuda Ben-Hanan in California’s Silicon Valley to construct a back door to the program.

    How does one acquire a master copy of a software program- with the ability to infect all other copies of the program- through “serendipity”? Asking for a friend. Basically this sounds like more of fabulist Ari Ben-Menashe’s b.s. He is the Forrest Gump of international intrigue.

  131. Flip says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    And gave us Bill Clinton in the process. In retrospect, not a very desirable outcome.

    I am not sure that Clinton was worse than Bush the elder. He did move right on a few things while Bush was pushed around by the Democrats in Congress.

  132. danand says:
    @El Dato

    “I don’t understand this Promis thing. How is it supposed to “track data on any target subject by querying and integrating information from innumerable electronic databases”? Very magical.

    El Dato,

    Promis is a program that “aggregates” multiple databases to make it easier to find & correlate them. What makes/made it unique was its ability to draw data from many operating systems/programs, including obscure (ie not Windows, Apple, Unix, etc) ones used for special applications, those “defunk” no longer supported, and even one-offs. This is especially useful in large operations/corporations where many generations of computing equipment are in use. Interesting that he was able to copy and sell $500M with no-one batting an eye? I’ve used Promis myself, but of course had no idea of its real potential!

  133. Jake says:
    @Rosie

    That is one evil pair.

  134. Flip says:
    @Anon

    He comes across as over the top and can be outlandish at times, but he’s generally correct on most matters. Far more than mainstream “respectable” media..

    The National Enquirer was often right as well.

  135. Jake says:
    @guest

    Perhaps it is not so incredible.

    Doing such a deed at that age and station in life would be exhilarating, a reliving of one’s grand youth of risk in service to self-satisfaction, to pleasure.

    Hunters always love to hunt.

    The McCanns would be exactly the type family the Podestas and their ilk would target because they were such decent people, and so thoroughly naive in so many ways. And they were devoutly Catholic, which the Satanic Podestas despise perhaps more than anything.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  136. “… including how Rupert Murdoch always insisted that even though Robert Maxwell and him [read: he] had the same initials and were in similar businesses …”

    Maxwell and Murdoch are the subjects of the subordinate clause introduced by “even though” and so should both be in the nominative case.

  137. @El Dato

    My understanding on the spying thing is that a backdoor was put in the software, so whatever information was held on Promis by [insert organisation here] was also shared with whoever had the backdoor key.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inslaw

    “A 1999 book by the British journalist Gordon Thomas, titled Gideon’s Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad, repeated the claims of Ari Ben-Menashe that Israeli intelligence created and marketed a Trojan horse version of Promis in order to spy on intelligence agencies in other countries.”

  138. @J.Ross

    The Federal bureaucracy appears to be far gone in loss of function (called “loss of core competencies” in the trade), as does much of the American business class (mainly corporate since WW II) (“It’s worked for me” is the catch phrase there [1]. When you’ve lived your entire life without even being told that your mistakes are mistakes, or that you’re _not_ supposed to accept indirect bribes, and that the ’empty suit” and “go along to get along” is the only workable policy, it’s kind of hard to resist the flow or see anything wrong with it.
    This can lead to some spectacular failures, like Epstein and Harvey Weinstein, some less spectacular failure such as the decline in achievement of US students [2], and a general decline in general effectiveness. Why should the FBI serve as a Federal police force when the real payoff is internal politics and controlling funding? In a contest to lead the agency, will a person who catches high profile people (Epstein, say) be made head of the FBI, or will the person who maintains and increases funding while doing nothing else be?
    Survivor bias. You get what you don’t kill off.

    And that’s what’s changing the game. The American Establishment has become inept, so very thoroughly inept that it contains very little but empty suits, ordinarily without the cognitive ability or personality traits [3] to effect change. By the 1960s, the Anglo Saxon establishment was in about the same condition. This isn’t exactly new.

    So, yes, high weirdness on the way as the ability to maintain cover stories ablates. The Internet speeds things up.

    One thing we don’t have now that we had in the 1960s is an opposition group, but the opposition group back in the 1960s wasn’t obvious at the time either. Wonder who it will be?

    Counterinsurgency

    1] Kind of like the old joke:
    Q: A plan crashed exactly on the US/Canadian border. Where did they bury the survivors?
    A: They didn’t bury the survivors.
    Of course things have “worked out” for _surviving_ US businessmen.
    2] Quite a few university students are afraid to apply things they’ve learned because the company
    where they work may want them to believe something different.
    3] Especially openness.
    Search for “big five personality traits” or try this URL:
    https://www.verywellmind.com/the-big-five-personality-dimensions-2795422

  139. Anonymous[579] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimDandy

    Zambia can be to Israel as eskimos are to Jews.

  140. @Father O'Hara

    That darn Zambionist Spectre , as usual.

  141. CAL2 says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    What, old, rich guys making girls 14 and younger have sex with them isn’t horrific enough? I’m sure if any of the girls said “No” they were allowed to go on their way unmolested. Really, are you so morally dead inside you can’t understand this?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Hail
  142. Anonymous[579] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    He did all he could to get the prisoners left behind in vietnam back.

    God bless him

    R.I.P

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  143. L Woods says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    14-18 year olds are legal in many (most?) countries and undoubtedly sexually active in the degenerate West, so yeah, hardly a “horrific assault” in itself.

  144. Anonymous[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Sweetie, you grand-grandmother most likely started conceiving when she was 15. It’s impressive that with the rise in upfront pornography and gayness, with the explosion in divorce rates and STDs, all the Americans are suddenly concerned about sex with younger than 18 and / or prostitutes.

    All the humans for the last thousands of years, and most of the planet agree that it’s logical and pleasurable to have sex with a 15-year old of the opposite sex, rather than with a same-sex individual. But in today’s America, for some reason, it has to be the other way around. Do they brainwash you in kindergardens, like they do with the allegiance to a flag?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Corvinus
  145. Rosie says:
    @guest

    Good help hard to find?

    Nonetheless, the efits speak for themselves. The least you have to do is bring them in for custodial interrogation.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  146. @Hank Archer

    I don’t get it either, but it’s definitely not about Israel…definitely.

  147. @Pericles

    If this was a novel – your points could well be the spoilers. It’s nice how this whole story now fits into a few lines.

  148. L Woods says:
    @BB753

    Americans seem to really struggle with this distinction (really, are just deliberately obtuse about it). Lumping teenaged girls in with prepubescent children is pushed for obvious self-serving reasons by women, and is incredibly, annoyingly dumb, to say nothing of potentially horrifically unjust. One of the many ways that Americans are probably second only to North Koreans in degree of brainwashing.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
  149. L Woods says:
    @Corvinus

    Much righteous. So wow.

  150. @Precious

    As I said, the last 4D underwater chess move I could believe is this sort of “end of The Godfather” play where his enemies start getting rolled up as this goes on.

  151. @Senator Brundlefly

    how do you feel about his connections to Steven Pinker?

    This shows that Steven Pinker is a star.

  152. @LondonBob

    Barr was a straight shooter

    Why would he lie about the Mueller report and subvert the Constitution if that were the case?

    • Replies: @peterike
    , @Hunsdon
  153. Wilkey says:
    @JimDandy

    Are you, like, parodying what a Hasbarah operative would post? If so, great job–your imitation is uncanny.

    Oh yeah, totally. That’s what I am – a Hasbarah operative.

    Of course I’m not. Nor am I Jewish nor do I especially like Israel. The important part of my comment isn’t that Israel wouldn’t do it. It’s about the impact it could and should have on the US-Israel relationship if in fact it turns out to be the case that Israel was not only blackmailing American leaders, but doing so by having them rape underage American girls.

    I’m not saying Israel wouldn’t do such a thing, but that whoever might have greenlighted such a program (and it could only have come straight from the top) would have to be, no matter how high his theoretical IQ, an unbelievable dumbass. The US-Israel relationship is about a thousand times more beneficial to Israel than it is to the US. Obviously Israel wants lots of influence over our leaders, but keeping blackmail material by, again, arranging the statutory rape of young American women risks setting off a scandal that could irreparably harm that relationship. I suppose that most of the American polticians Israel has bought will stay bought, but it still might lose the support of quite a few.

  154. Sean says:

    Rich men seem to get incredibly bad lawyers. Epstein’s current one is incompetent and caused gasps and laughter in at the hearing the other day with a “senior moment” that a judge had to gently explain to him.

    a non-prosecution agreement

    Quite the opposite as it turned out. Epstein is a tax avoidance specialist, who spends so freely that people get an exaggerated idea of his wealth. His deal turned out to be a bad one, because although he did not admit to having actual sex with any under age girls (which is legally classified as rape), he subsequently made an easy mark for another prosecutor to come up with related but more serious charges and how can he plead not guilty to those with any chance of success now? He has been very poorly advised. A year in prison does not seem so great a deal, if it makes later prosecution on more serious charges far easier to get a conviction on and several more years in prison now inevitable, not the case if he had fought it from the begining. Prosecutors do not like fighting people with no criminal record and Epstein’s resources, because they are too difficult to convict. Now he is a slam dunk. Ms Maxwell has not been charged because they know she would fight it and not be so stupid as to take a deal like Epstein did.

  155. peterike says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Why would he [Barr] lie about the Mueller report and subvert the Constitution if that were the case?

    Because he did neither of those things. You really should stop getting your ideas from people like Rachel Maddow and Jonathan Chait, as neither of those people traffics in anything even remotely close to the truth.

  156. peterike says:
    @Wilkey

    Obviously Israel wants lots of influence over our leaders, but keeping blackmail material by, again, arranging the statutory rape of young American women risks setting off a scandal that could irreparably harm that relationship. I suppose that most of the American polticians Israel has bought will stay bought, but it still might lose the support of quite a few.

    Well, when you’ve had a totally compliant and uncurious press and an easily bought U.S. government for decades, you start to feel your oats. Hell, it’s entirely possible that Israel did and got away with both the Kennedy assassination and 9/11. What, you think they can’t run a little pedo hustle on the side? C’mon boychick, this one is easy!

    Pride goeth before a fall.

  157. donut says:
    @LondonBob

    I agree . One more reason to vote for Trump again will be to give Barr time to finish the job .

  158. @Dave Pinsen

    Its not a stretch to think that preteens and teens flown to some rich man’s private island might have went through some terrible things even worse than what is being publicly admitted. Don’t underestimate how depraved people can be when they think they are untouchable. If someone is already breaking the law by having sexual contact with underage girls from shitty backgrounds, what’s to stop them from engaging in some truly evil (satanic, almost) acts?

  159. JMcG says:
    @Rosie

    I only recently saw some of Tony Podesta’s “art”: Regrettably, because I can’t now unsee it.
    I suspect the world would be a better place were Mr. Podesta to suffer something much worse than custodial interrogation.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  160. @Anon

    Change your “99.9 percent” figure to about 95 percent. You’d be surprised at what “big fish in small ponds” can get away with in country towns and small/mid sized cities.

    • Replies: @Anon
  161. Gordo says:
    @HammerJack

    Suspicion at the time was Maxwell wasn’t dead, he was facing charges, fraud I think, in UK, but his body was never returned to UK, straight to Zambia.

    I dunno of any Epstein connection but Charles Lynton visited the next door island owned by Branson I’m told.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  162. Corvinus says:
    @JimDandy

    “as far as runaway teens who start turning tricks are concerned, Epstein’s teen prostitutes had it a helluva lot better than most.”

    They were not all runaways, or prostitutes to begin with, and their life was assuredly not “better” as a result.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  163. Corvinus says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “Has it been alleged anyone was forced against her will?”

    He wouldn’t have been charged in the first place, or the last time, if there were not credible witnesses.Why are you doubling down here?

    “Not that it isn’t immoral and illegal to pay underage girls for sex, but “horrific assault” suggests something else entirely.”

    No. “Horrific assault” is part and parcel to this illicit transaction, as there was also evidence that they were repeatedly physically and mentally abused.

    “Attempting to clarify what the writer was referring to doesn’t make me a bad guy, so you can save your outrage for someone who deserves it.”

    You definitively deserve here in this particular instance.

  164. Whiskey says: • Website

    Intelligence not foreign intelligence is the key. The FBI most likely ran Epstein like it ran Whitey Bulger for Intel on foreign targets. Say a business man who is Qatari and does business in Iran and can hang out with Iranian officials. Give us Intel and we don’t prosecute and use Rico to seize U.S. And foreign assets.

    The idea that Missad could run an operation and not have the FBI take it over is a laugh. What Ehud Barak calls up Preet Bhara on the Jewline secret phone and tells him to back off? We know Mueller did that with Whitey Bulgerw.

  165. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anon

    Clinton flew on Epsteins 727 full sized jet dubbed, The Lolita Express, some 27 times. The secret service was not, according to one journalist, always on board, and would meet up at the landing destination with Clinton.

    Even if they were on board………………….

    https://www.washingtonian.com/2013/03/25/secret-service-prostitution-scandal-one-year-later/

    For all we know there are Secret Service agents who volunteer for the Bill Clinton detail for the fringe benefits.

  166. Mr. Anon says:
    @Wilkey

    Obviously Israel wants lots of influence over our leaders, but keeping blackmail material by, again, arranging the statutory rape of young American women risks setting off a scandal that could irreparably harm that relationship.

    Moreso than attacking a US Naval vessel, killing 34 and wounding 171 US Navy, Marine, and NSA personnel?

    • Agree: Hibernian
  167. Corn says:
    @Tiny Duck

    I’m cool with Trumo. Never even met a Mr. Trumo

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  168. Seneca44 says:
    @Cultural Inappropriation

    Indeed, the MSM presentation of this is almost as interesting as the story itself. On the front page of today’s Washington Post is a picture of Trump and Epstein together. About 20 paragraphs later, buried well in the back pages is the revelation that Clinton used Epstein’s private jet at least 20 times! They never did mention Slick Willie’s trips to Epstein’s private island–which would raise some eyebrows given Mr. Clinton’s documented affinity for strange poontang.

  169. Jack D says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    In the current environment, those ARE “horrific assaults”. Now obviously what Epstein did was wrong but it takes two to tango. Putting aside issues regarding age of consent, Epstein was paying these girls and they came to his house willingly, over and over because they liked the money. Suddenly the MeToo movement has gotten all Victorian but the truth is that many American teenage girls have sex lives – what they were doing with Epstein for pay was no different than what they were already doing with their boyfriends for free. Probably they were doing more with their boyfriends since Epstein seemed to confine himself (mostly) to “massages”.

    But for purposes of the Narrative, suddenly American girls are these pure virginal roses who are being defiled by the evil white male. They are not underage prostitutes, they are “schoolgirls”. Last week’s Narrative, that women are these strong characters who own their own sex lives and are free to sleep with whomever they want and make money as “sex workers”, is out the window.

    Of course it would have been better if Epstein stuck to whores who were over 18, but the truth is that lots of girls begin their sex lives long before their 18th birthdays. In the current environment if you mention this then you are a pedophile too. Arguably, like the marijuana laws (until recently), the age of consent laws in many states don’t really reflect reality and are just traps for selective prosecution. For example, in Austria the age of consent is 14 and the sky has not fallen.

    Speaking of blackmail, lately any woman who has had sexual contact with a wealthy male in the last two decades seems to think that this entitles her to a large financial settlement. Not just the lousy $300 or $400 bucks she got the first time but a six or seven figure settlement.

  170. MEH 0910 says:

    OT:

  171. Jack D says:
    @El Dato

    Yeah, it sounds like the McGuffin in a spy thriller movie. It only makes sense if you say it real fast and don’t stop and think about it too much.

    It also sounds like the person who is writing this doesn’t really have the foggiest idea about how Promis actually worked (if it even really existed) or how software works in general. They wouldn’t know a database if it hit them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  172. Spect3r says:
    @Rosie

    Im not gonna lie, that is an interesting “fact”.
    However, Madelieine Mcann is dead.
    She died while her parents where having dinner in a restaurant, they return home, freaked out and hidden the body.
    This was proven by the investigation of the portuguese police.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  173. Chelm says:

    Wow, the chaff is getting thicker as Gina gets a droopy tit caught in the CRC-OPSC wringer.

    Bill Barr’s dad (That would be the Bill Barr who whitewashed DCI Bush’s Iran/Contra) – Dad hired Epstein to teach nubile ephebes at Dalton with no degree but oh yeah, foreign intelligence ran him, right. Epstein shared an aircraft tail number with CIA refoulement contractor Centurion Aviation but oh yeah, foreign intelligence ran him, right.

    https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/73700/jeffrey-epstein-shared-a-plane-with-dyncorp-state-department-and-the.html

    https://archive.fo/UXVNO

  174. Sean says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Epstein is not a billionaire. He was the only client or customer of the ‘trafficking’ he is charged with, and seeing that it could easily get one 20 years the idea he was some kind of pimp to the elite is laughable . The stuff that was an open secret is not what he was charged with; that was a real secret.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  175. peterike says:
    @El Dato

    I don’t understand this Promis thing. How is it supposed to “track data on any target subject by querying and integrating information from innumerable electronic databases”? Very magical. How does selling it Los Alamos Labs (what would they do with it? they build nukes) enable one to spy on Los Alamos Labs?

    I don’t know how Promis actually worked, but how it enabled the Mossad to spy is right there in the article:

    Eiten then worked through former Mossad agent Ari Ben Menashe, who found Yahuda Ben-Hanan in California’s Silicon Valley to construct a back door to the program. This enabled the Mossad to monitor Promis and obtain the information the program developed as it worked for all who used it—friend and foe alike.

    They put in a backdoor, so whatever and however Promis gathered up all kinds of data, the Mossad could get to it. Buying any Israeli software is a really stupid choice.

    But this is my favorite part of the article:

    “After his meeting with Hamilton, Eitan immediately went to the Department of Justice, and, through serendipity, acquired a copy of Promis.”

    Through serendipity?? What on earth does that mean?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Mr McKenna
  176. @Anon

    Incontrovertible evidence will have to be produced to nail THEM to the wall…and even then (i.e. what happened to the Hillary Email Scandal?).

    • Replies: @Tex
  177. Svevlad says:
    @Wilkey

    They are not that stupid. This indicates there’s a third party involved…

    Someone on an “infamous hacker” board mentioned that if you want to be in a position of power, you have to be in their little club…

    Without a doubt, the biggest dissenters from this are the “pariahs” – Iran, Russia, China, North Korea and others.

    That, on the other hand suggests that we’re truly dealing with some sort of supranational secretive cult hell-bent on world domination

  178. @Rosie

    .
    .

    Too many coincidences.

    Despite the evidence, no law enforcement agency or journalist will investigate the persistent allegations of horrific crimes against children.

    Within the elite are networks of predators that torture and eat children in sacred rituals.

    These predators regard themselves as divine.
    They are intensely loyal to one another.

    Why do these networks of predators exist?

    There must be a logical evolutionary explanation.

    Consider two prehistoric tribes that were violently competing against each other for scarce resources.

    One tribe nurtured all of their children, including their weakest children.

    The competing tribe killed their weakest children.

    The tribe that killed their weakest children gained a competitive advantage over the tribe that wasted scarce resources on nurturing weak children.

    The dead children were valuable food.

    Which members of the tribe should be allowed to eat the dead children?

    The tribe was strengthened when the genetically-superior ate the genetically-inferior.

    The genetically-superior elite of prehistoric tribes were the chieftains and druids, who gradually evolved into the aristocracy and priesthood of medieval Europe.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  179. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    They are not underage prostitutes, they are “schoolgirls”.

    Because what’s the point of being a rich white man if you can’t use your money to hire desperately poor underage prostitutes from the Third World, right?

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Jack D
  180. @Rosie

    This Epstein guy is a sleazebag & I hope he gets his @ss ripped apart. But- were these girls poor underage girls from the 3rd world?

    Who thinks here that Monica Lewinsky was a victim?

    Who thinks that many, way too many US white girls are morally upstanding? Amanda King?

  181. @Jack D

    My gosh this interpretation is such pilpul your words are glowing on my screen.

  182. lysias says:
    @Paul

    I believe the Attorney General at the time was Michael Mukasey, a big supporter of Israel.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  183. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    For example, in Austria the age of consent is 14 and the sky has not fallen.

    Tell that to a parent who is now on the hook for a grandchild. The age of majority is 19, and parents are responsible for their children’s children until that time.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  184. lysias says:
    @BB753

    FBI or CIA? When Epstein was hired to teach at the Dalton School, the school’s president was Donald Barr, father of current AG William Barr and a former ISS officer. William Barr’s first job out of college was with the CIA.

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @BB753
  185. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @HammerJack

    Fell, jumped, was pushed, whatever. The nifty thing is how readily his body was recovered and then whipped back to the Promised Land for a kosher ‘autopsy’.

    Why would Israel have killed him?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Tex
  186. Was it just me that interpreted “belong to intelligence” as “meant for intelligence services to capture”?

  187. anon[308] • Disclaimer says:

    The guy probably had dirt on a lot of democrats, so federal government bureaucrats (overwhelmingly democrat) likely kept him out of as much trouble as possible to keep him from spilling the beans on fellow party members. This is also why Comey didn’t search the DNC servers where emails were allegedly stolen from by the Russians: any compromising dirt on the democrats would have been leaked, thereby helping the opposition. The federal police agencies are largely a protection racket for the powerful and the well-connected. Any real police work is ancillary to their usual responsibilities of covering up the corruption of the ruling class. I also wouldn’t doubt the guy passed some of this information to a certain foreign government for leverage purposes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  188. utu says:
    @Excal

    … Mr. Perot (RIP) … ran specifically to cause trouble.. He had no intention of becoming President…

    He ran to stop Bush and give us president with frequent mile card on the Lolita Express.

  189. @Jim Christian

    The funny thing about Trump is that he had no problem pulling down his own pussy so he was not dependent on a guy like Epstein to get laid. It is also why his divorces have not hurt him or his affair with Stormy Daniels. He has sex on his own terms and does not apologize.

    Bill Clinton is someone who used his wife as a ‘political beard’. His marriage / child gave somewhat gave the appearance that he was a family man which helped him hide his sexual apatite and peccadilloes. Had he not been in a high profile position, he would have had a lot more freedom. Granted, it seems he crossed the line in many ways but for such an over sexed guy to be stuck in a dead marriage was a bit unfair to him. Hillary needed him more than the other way around but at least she helped his political career.

    My opinion is that they remained married long after their bed was stone cold and I remember someone mentioning to me that his marriage to Hillary resembled a loveless marriage where the couple stayed together only for the children instead of in his case, their career.

    Trump broke that mold. Granted he is married now that he is President helping to maintain a certain traditional image but by not getting trapped in a sexual straight jacket such as marrying a feminist shrew he proved you could reach the White House without selling your soul.

  190. JMcG says:
    @Jack D

    This is the worst thing you’ve ever written. I hope you aren’t sincere.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
  191. Hunsdon says:

    At the risk of being seen to, in any way, excuse Epstein’s conduct, I believe the proper term is ephebophilia, not pedophelia.

    With that said, there is a great difference between a 18 year old man sleeping with a fifteen-year-old girl, and a man in his mid-50s sleeping with a 14 or 15 year old girl. The ick factor is dramatically enhanced in the latter situation.

    • Agree: Rosie
  192. Hunsdon says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I have from time to time agreed with Truth, Whiskey and even (once!) Corvinius. But with you, Peter, not even one time.

  193. Acosta to resign today. Stave was right, they twisted Epstein into a Republican problem. When does Bill Clinton, the real penile beneficiary, come into the picture on this?

  194. lysias says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    That’s assuming that it was really him.

  195. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    In case you haven’t noticed, in the modern Western world sex does not inevitably lead to pregnancy let alone childbirth. The birth rate in Austria is 1.49 children/woman (lifetime) and most of those are probably Muslim women, so if anything they could use a bit more teen pregnancy.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Hibernian
  196. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey

    The US-Israel relationship is about a thousand times more beneficial to Israel than it is to the US. Obviously Israel wants lots of influence over our leaders, but keeping blackmail material by, again, arranging the statutory rape of young American women risks setting off a scandal that could irreparably harm that relationship.

    The Jews don’t need additional blackmail power. They already have a lot of money to give and withhold and extensive influence over the media. And they have the power to label anyone they don’t like an “Antisemite”. What is a more powerful blackmail lever than that!

  197. @Wilkey

    Of course Israel wouldn’t do that, anymore than they would viciously attack a US intelligence-gathering ship in the eastern Mediterranean during a Middle East war, and certainly they wouldn’t strafe the lifeboats as the men were attempting to board them thinking that the ship may be sunk as a result of the concerted, and prolonged attack on the ship. Oh, wait, that actually happened to the USS Liberty.

    Okay, bad example. But certainly they wouldn’t enlist someone like Jonathan Pollard to harvest lists of intelligence assets in the Soviet Union, and then sell this information TO the Soviet Union to secure the release of “refusniks” to emigrate to Israel, heedless of the damage done to the intelligence-gathering by those assets against a dangerous adversary of the US. Oh, but they did that, too.

    So, cut the crap. They did these things, things that should have been terminal to relations with Israel. The only thing in question is why; stupidity on their part, or the arrogance that came from knowing that they could do these things (and more I didn’t mention) and get away with it. I vote for the second alternative. And maybe, just maybe, the accumulation of blackmail material against a compromised elite is how they could attain that capability. Hmm, that’d be a first, eh? Unheard of. Although this line of thought is purely speculative.

    It is easy to argue against a hypothetical, but not so easy to argue against actual, documented actions, and actions that would not have been undertaken without orders from the highest levels. And these actions, if they are not stupid, require an explanatory framework. They happened – demonstrably – but your a priori assumption is that Israel is not so stupid as to have done these acts. How does that work then? What is the rationale? Whistling past the graveyard, or some really concrete reason to believe that problems can be just made to go away?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  198. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Not just the lousy $300 or $400 bucks she got the first time but a six or seven figure settlement.

    What do you mean? Were settlements previously in the range of $300-400?

  199. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hunsdon

    With that said, there is a great difference between a 18 year old man sleeping with a fifteen-year-old girl, and a man in his mid-50s sleeping with a 14 or 15 year old girl.

    What is in fact the difference?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  200. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    so if anything they could use a bit more teen pregnancy.

    You make me sick.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  201. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    You must be reading different newspapers. I haven’t read anything that said that Epstein’s “friends” were from the Third World or desperately poor. Does your answer change if they are blond prep school girls from Palm Beach and the Upper East Side looking for a little extra shopping money?

    Human beings (even teenage girls) who willingly and repeatedly put themselves into a situation (Epstein was not jumping out from behind the bushes to rape these girls) either have agency or they don’t. According to modern feminists thought, sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t according to whatever best suits the Narrative in that particular moment and situation. This is not to say that Epstein has no responsibility or agency of his own, but the Left likes to assign 100% agency to evil white dudes and 0% agency to everyone else – real life is not so black and white.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @lysias
    , @S. Anonyia
  202. @R.G. Camara

    I figure Law & Order will do a show on this soon. The climactic scene: “Jeffrey O’Houlihan…you’re under arrest!”

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  203. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    Teen pregnancy was the norm for most of history in most places. What is sick is the current situation where white women wait until they are in their 30’s (or sometimes never) to squeeze out one kid – this more than anything else is going to lead to the extinction of Western civilization and undo all the advances of the last 500 years. The # of Western deaths in all the wars of the 20th century pales in comparison to the # of babies not born due to modern feminism.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @L Woods
    , @S. Anonyia
    , @HA
    , @HA
  204. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey

    That’s naive. A story that radioactive would be covered up. And not by some sinister Zionist cabal, but by regular white liberals in working in journalism/politics/law. They will quietly rationalise it to themselves by saying they’re preventing pogroms, or even the rise of another Hitler.

  205. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    Human beings (even teenage girls) who willingly and repeatedly put themselves into a situation (Epstein was not jumping out from behind the bushes to rape these girls) either have agency or they don’t.

    It’s not complicated. Teenagers don’t have agency. That’s why juveniles have their own corrections system, can’t vote, can’t sign contracts, etc…

    • Replies: @Jack D
  206. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    Teen pregnancy was the norm for most of history in most places.

    Yes, by all means it’s a great idea to have teenage girls having babies.

  207. lysias says:
    @Jack D

    Read James Patterson’s book on Epstein, “Filthy Rich”. The girls were all or almost all from poor families.

  208. Rosie says:
    @Hunsdon

    With that said, there is a great difference between a 18 year old man sleeping with a fifteen-year-old girl, and a man in his mid-50s sleeping with a 14 or 15 year old girl. The ick factor is dramatically enhanced in the latter situation.

    That icky feeling you get is actually rooted in good old-fashioned common sense. Old men shouldn’t be having children with young girls. A young mother needs a strong young man who she can reasonably expect to live long enough to help her raise her children and grow old with her, not some old pervert stealing brides from young men.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  209. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Hunsdon

    Making the distinction between ephebophilia and pedophilia gets you attacked by women on Twitter.

    Of course, as Jack D suggests, if you treated this woman like she were a a child when she was a teen, she would have raged against you.

    I suspect something like Sailer’s Law of Female Journalism applies here.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @J.Ross
    , @Jack D
  210. Anonymous[142] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    The concept is a real thing. It’s called Entity Resolution. Basic idea is to take bits of information from disparate sources, and through basic probability, resolve them to one single record or person. A person can leave behind small bits of information (timezone, cell phone model, etc.) and eventually you can tie them to a real person, without needing their name and vital info

    No doubt Google does this, and perhaps foreign intelligence services put together composites of Tor users, assuming they get flagged in some way.

    But Promis itself was likely a combination of vaporware and a basic database management tool marketed towards clueless government agencies.

  211. OP says:
    @Wilkey

    They aren’t as smart as they think they are.

  212. L Woods says:
    @Hunsdon

    What an idiotic comment. “The ick factor?” What are you, 10 years old/a woman? There’s no rationally articulable difference at all.

  213. NYMOM says:

    Totally unrelated (except for the foreign connection) did anyone notice that Tommy Robinson has requested Trump to give him political asylum.

    I though this might be interesting for someone to follow since I was thinking Trump (just to jerk the chain of the House Dems, US media and Great Britian’s political establishment) might say yes…

    This could get interesting…

  214. NYMOM says:

    This could definitely morph into what you guys call a ‘sit back and grab the popcorn’ moment…

  215. L Woods says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    I am sick, so very sick, of having morality dictated to me by women (and their sycophantic enablers), that sex from which nothing is uttered that isn’t narrowly self-serving.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
  216. J.Ross says:
    @Dieter Kief

    We already went through all this years ago. The pizza instagram didn’t just have wierd art, it had lots and lots of kids in wierd positions or states of undress, and no explanation of whose kids they were. The DC police chief is literally a “close personal friend” of the only pizzeria owner on earth to be listed by a capitol magazine as one of the fifty more powerful people in the district, and the chief publicly said that these rumors will not be investigated, period. There was enough that at least one mainstream journalist started to look into it. His next “broadcast” was announcing his resignation.
    And it’s not just the brother, Tony has sick art too.
    But the totally solid cases that are properly in court wierdly rhyme with the “debunked” rumors — same charges with same explanations, but different people and locations.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  217. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    What’s “icky” and what’s OK can vary considerably between cultures and times. Who is better able to provide for offspring – a 60ish male multi-millionaire like Epstein with a good 20+ years of life expectancy (and who will provide a rich inheritance if he kicks off early) or some pimply teen-age dad with a part time job stock shelves at the Wal-Mart?

    One of the things that Christianity did was to intentionally level the playing field with the monogamy requirement and age of consent requirements and this (on the whole) worked out well, especially for the average guy, but “young people should only screw other young people and only starting when they are 18” is not some kind of biological imperative like the prohibition against incest with close relatives – it’s very culture bound and if anything goes AGAINST the natural order of things. We make these rules in order to restrain female impulses, which seems lost on feminists nowadays.

  218. J.Ross says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    That’s hilarious because for almost all of human history, pedophilia would be criminalized (or at least scandalized) in civilization, or on the way to civilization, but ephebophilia would be synonymous with heterosexuality. The one is not a grey area for the other: they have historically been clear opposites. The present agenda of feminism is to make life less miserable for the ugly, fat, and aging.

  219. Jack D says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Women who are on the downhill side of their sexual market value have enough competition to deal with without having to worry about teenage girls.

    • Replies: @Ibound1
  220. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    This is lawyer talk. There are two broad cultural divisions that can be organized: the domain of dignity, where you don’t have to be a millionaire to have rights, and the world of the all-knowing benevolent patron and his grovelling clientes, where law and right would only get in the way of Mr Bloomberg’s next brilliant solution. The latter describes every third world country and an increasing number of ostensibly civilized states.
    Cultural explanations from the fiefdom of the Patron are not culture, they are not spontaneous or democratic or practical, they are a way of averting one’s eyes.
    This very situation actually comes up all the time in stories, such as that of Khmielnitsky, British Afghanistan, or the movie Samurai Rebellion, where the clear issue is that what culture really says is that there are some boundaries which the powerful must respect.
    But granting the lawyer talk, we would have only to confirm which culture Epstein was operating in at the time.

  221. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    – it’s very culture bound and if anything goes AGAINST the natural order of things.

    You are wrong. A teenage girl’s body is not ready for childbirth. The extremely pro-natalist Spartans didn’t marry off their girls till around 18, so their first birth wouldn’t have been till around 19, when they would be less likely to die in childbirth.

    Epstein with a good 20+ years of life expectancy (and who will provide a rich inheritance if he kicks off early) or some pimply teen-age dad with a part time job stock shelves at the Wal-Mart?

    That inheritance rightfully belongs to his first wife and her children.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Art Deco
  222. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    It’s very selective and not carved in stone. We let kids below 18 do certain things in certain places – drive cars, work, even have sex after they turn 14 in some (even advanced Western) countries. Enforcement of statutory rape laws is extremely selective – how many underage sex acts are there for each successful statutory rape prosecution (especially in states where there is no Romeo and Juliet exception? ) 100? 1,000? As I said before, it’s like the marijuana laws (were) – mostly honored in the breach until the State zeroes in on a target for some reason.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  223. J.Ross says:
    @Hunsdon

    I see nothing wrong with big age differences (excluding pedophilia and especially in a lifelong monogamous situation) but that’s self-explanatorily not what was happening here. This is a much worse version of the studio head dangling employment over the victim’s head. And if you had to kill somebody, the best possible place to ensure that you would never be caught would be a private island — a capitalist version of what the Soviets did, an American version of the Mexican practice.
    Speculation, but not baseless: one of these girls said, “no”. Of course, given Epstein’s resources, we’ll never know. Which is exactly the uncertainty and lawlessness which leads cultures to impose structure on sex.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  224. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    If nature is against teenage childbirth, why do 15 year old Puerto Rican girls get pregnant if you so much as shake their hands while 38 year old women need 5 cycles of in-vitro?

    Epstein had enough $ to raise 10 families comfortably.

  225. @Anon

    It depends upon how brave and willing to admit one’s sins one is.

    Now, of course, the horrible things alleged in Epstein’s case cannot be much mitigated (vis-à-vis earthly consequences, anyway) by confession – but most topics of blackmail and extortion can be; the victims are just to cowardly to admit their wrongs and face the music….

  226. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    Enforcement of statutory rape laws is extremely selective –

    Oh, the injustice!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  227. @Jack D

    Sure. The fact of the matter is that if the [*]-stein’s of the world went after 13 year-old Jewish girls they would be, rightfully, shunned by their communities. But when they go after barely-pubescent goys, it is met with a yawn or a sizable check.

    Please spare us with the Bronze Age ethno-doublespeak.

    • Agree: Gordo
  228. Tex says:
    @Jack D

    Wasn’t that sort of the rationale the bobbies, social workers, etc had for not caring that much about Rotherham? I guess they didn’t get too worried if trashy girls hooked up with trashy pimps.

    No doubt Epstein was more refined and free with his cash than some Paki dope-dealer and his gang-rape buddies. Further, I freely grant there are a lot of trashy teens out there. But it is still a very long way from a couple of youngsters acting on common impulses. If a kid is behaving like trash, I sort of wonder how they got that way.

    Moreover, without a very thorough investigation, how do we know Epstein’s business was any more voluntary than a Paki pimp’s business model?

  229. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    It is unjust. Any time you have a law that is not being followed by a large % of the people, whether it is marijuana or speeding or a prohibition against all sex before age 18, chances are that law is unjust – it’s a holdover from some previous time or being driven by some vocal minority or the state has found a way to monetize the law and/or use it to target some disfavored group or individuals.

    • Agree: Autochthon, reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @J.Ross
  230. Tex says:
    @Prester John

    Presidential candidates are above the law. Comey said so in public.

  231. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    Epstein had enough $ to raise 10 families comfortably.

    And his wife and her children are entitled to all of it.

    why do 15 year old Puerto Rican girls get pregnant if you so much as shake their hands

    A woman’s fertility speaks in her twenties.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  232. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    to target some disfavored group or individuals.

    Keep your hands off teenage girls and you won’t have to worry about it.

  233. Jack D says:
    @J.Ross

    You are in the realm of wild speculation. No one has complained about any girls that are missing. Epstein did not work alone – he had numerous accomplices, many of them female. These people were not the most morally upstanding citizens in the universe but they would not have kept quiet for murder.

    In the current hysterical environment, Epstein doesn’t need to have murdered anyone. They are going to put him away for the rest of his life just for getting “massages”. People are going wild at the lenient treatment he received the last time around and perhaps it was too lenient but what they are going to do to him now (they are going to give in 345 years in prison or something ridiculous like that I predict) is way too harsh.

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Jonathan Mason
  234. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    One of the many theories surrounding Maxwell’s death is that he trying to blackmail Israel into bailing out his debt-ridden companies. He apparently knew things that would have seriously embarrassed the Israelis if made public. Mossad was therefore ordered to silence him.

  235. Tex says:
    @Anonymous

    Why would Israel have killed him?

    Maybe they got wind that Maxwell was compromised because of his extensive embezzlement. Makes as much sense as assuming he killed himself at the height of his power and influence.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  236. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    And his wife and her children are entitled to all of it.

    Really? All of it? Does the man get to keep ANYTHING that he worked for? This is why our divorce courts are such a shitshow.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  237. Achilles says:

    Jennifer Araoz says she was 14 years old when a young woman approached her outside her New York City high school in the fall of 2001.

    The woman was friendly and curious, asking Araoz personal questions about her family, her upbringing, their finances. Soon she began talking to Araoz about a man she knew who was kind and wealthy and lived nearby.

    His name, the woman said, was Jeffrey Epstein…

    Araoz would return to that room regularly over the next year, she said, manipulated into stripping down to her panties and giving Epstein massages that ended with him pleasuring himself to completion and her leaving with $300.

    In the fall of 2002, Epstein pressured her to do more, Araoz said. He told her to remove her panties. Then he grabbed her 15-year-old body.

    “He raped me, forcefully raped me,” Araoz told NBC News in an exclusive interview. “He knew exactly what he was doing.”

    “I was terrified, and I was telling him to stop. ‘Please stop,’” Araoz, now 32, added.

    Epstein, Araoz said, ignored her pleas. She never returned to his home after that day and her life spiraled downward over the next several years as a result of the trauma, she said….

    She never contacted the authorities to tell her story, but she says she did tell at least four people — her mother, her old boyfriend and two close friends — about the Epstein encounters several years after they occurred.

    Reached by NBC News, all four confirmed that she told them years ago that she had been sexually assaulted by Epstein…

    It was early in her freshman year when Araoz says a brunette in her 20s approached her outside school. She was easy to talk to, and Araoz spoke freely about her struggles and her dreams.

    “I was kind of a lost kid and she sensed it,” Araoz said.

    They had chatted a few times before the young woman ever brought up Epstein’s name. She said he believed in helping people and was already supporting her and her family, Araoz said.

    “She was saying he’s very powerful, he’s very wealthy, he’s a great guy,” Araoz recalled. “He’s almost like a fatherly figure to her, which had meaning for me at that time because I was maybe longing for that.”…

    The 14-year-old Araoz and the woman who’d brought her to the townhouse were offered wine and cheese by a member of the staff as they waited for Epstein. When he did show up to greet the pair, he was warm and welcoming, Araoz said.

    She recalls him telling her that he had heard a lot about her and felt terrible about her father’s death. …

    While she was giving him a massage, Epstein first asked a question that Araoz took to be more of a demand.

    “Why don’t we try something a little bit different?” she recalls him saying. “Why don’t you do the massage on top of me?”

    Araoz said she told him that she wanted to “stick to the normal routine,” but she ultimately removed her underwear. He fondled her privates, she said. Then he “brought me up there and it was very aggressive, it was forceful,” she said.

    Araoz said she was terrified and told him to stop. “He was like, ‘It’s okay. You’re fine. You’re not doing anything wrong,’” added Araoz, who said he did not use a condom.

    After it was over, Araoz said, she rushed out of the house angry and shaken. Her life unraveled over the next few months. She developed crippling anxiety. She suffered panic attacks. She dropped out of school to avoid having to return to his neighborhood — and eventually gave up on her dream of becoming an actress…

    When asked why she didn’t contact the authorities about the alleged assault, Araoz said she feared the repercussions.

    “I was so young that I was worried that somehow I would get in trouble,” Araoz said. “I was really frightened of Epstein. He knew a lot of powerful people and I didn’t know what he could do to me, and I wasn’t sure that anyone could protect me.”

    Araoz’s legal team filed papers in New York state court Wednesday seeking more information from Epstein prior to filing her civil complaint.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-he-raped-me-when-i-was-n1028011

  238. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @S. Anonyia

    Interesting. Could you elaborate?

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  239. gcochran says:
    @Mr. Anon

    “He was hired into that job by Donald Barr, the father of the current US Attorney General, William Barr.”

    !

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  240. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Nonsense. A stable genius!

  241. J.Ross says:
    @anon

    Naked and violent is usually PCP because besides turning you psycho it overheats you.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  242. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    345 years cannot be too harsh when centuries of that can never be served (the criticism here is that our legal system needs an overhaul) and the number of years he should get is zero.
    And “no one has complained” is a completely unusable argument in talking about extreme wealth, power, and international trafficking.

  243. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    That’s true, and the normal solution would be to bring the law into line with culture for the sake of legitimacy, but this elite is less concerned with legitimacy than Marie Antoinette.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  244. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    That’s not Paul Allen, that’s Patrick Bateman.

  245. BB753 says:
    @L Woods

    Looking back, how many of our foremothers (I just made this word up) were under 17 years old when giving birth to our ancestors?I bet a plurality in the last millenium and a majority before then. To call it pedophilia is madness.

  246. Bruce says:

    The police entering Epstein’s house were unusually tall, gracile, slender popo with good hair. They look like the overlap between adventurous girls who join the NYPD and adventurous girls who want to meet Epstein.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  247. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    “All the humans for the last thousands of years, and most of the planet agree that it’s logical and pleasurable to have sex with a 15-year old of the opposite sex, rather than with a same-sex individual.”

    Again, as Corvinus suggested, please think before you type.

  248. Ibound1 says:
    @Redneck farmer

    Bill Clinton flew on this guy’s plane many times. Clinton isn’t a traitor, he’s just amoral scum, like this guy. I think this whole play is Trump putting the squeeze on the Permanent State – to whom this guy is connected. They brought a knife to the fight? Trump brought a gun.

    • Replies: @peterike
  249. Apparently, Epstein had his recruiters trolling schools for victims, which makes you wonder if he had contacts inside the schools. He was a teacher at one time. I wonder if any of his ex-students will start coming forward? They would have been the right age as middle-schoolers.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1028011

  250. BB753 says:
    @lysias

    You could be right. However most journalists hint at his FBI connections, probably because Epstein set his honeytraps on US soil.

  251. Anonymous[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Must. Hate. Trumo.

    Hate the Trumo.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  252. backup says:
    @The Alarmist

    If they had actually flown internationally, there would have been a requirement for birthdays as well.

    Does international flights account for unincorporated territories of the United States as well?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @Autochthon
  253. Art Deco says:
    @Jake

    After all, what is unique about the silver spoon daughter of a swashbuckling arch-WASP spy, a MR. WASP of derring-do, slithering into the arms of an utterly amoral Jew and helping him abuse no telling how many?

    Robert Maxwell (ne Jan Hoc) spoke flawless English, but he was a mitteleuropean Jew born in Czechoslovakia. And he was supposedly born poor.

  254. @Jack D

    Young women (and young men) do not have sufficient common sense to know their own interests, which is why a healthy culture protects them. And young women have more to lose than young men. You seem to be an advocate for Epstein here. Preying on young foolish women is disgusting, and Epstein should be punished.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  255. backup says:
    @Ibound1

    Well, there might be the possibility that we are not focusing om the person who organized the flow of girls for decades, Ghislaine Maxwell, and especially not on what her interest was in doing so.

    The remark just stated that Epstein *belonged* to intelligence

    • Replies: @Ibound1
  256. Art Deco says:
    @lysias

    No. The non-prosecution agreement was concluded about a week after Alberto Gonzales left office. Michael Mukasey hadn’t yet arrived on the job.

    • Replies: @lysias
  257. Art Deco says:
    @Hunsdon

    I think ‘ephebophilia’ is a synonym for ‘pederasty’, the seduction of adolescent males by older men.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  258. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D

    The total fertility rate in PR is 1.3 children per woman per lifetime.

    See Angus Maddison on this point: it’s been characteristic of occidental culture for centuries for young women to marry and bear children notably later than was the practice in India or the Islamic world. I’ve forgotten the metric he calculated, but the gap might have been something on the order of seven years.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  259. @Pericles

    That is a very plausible and simple theory.

  260. Art Deco says:
    @Rosie

    The extremely pro-natalist Spartans d

    Classical history is not my forte, but IIRC the warrior class in Sparta imploded demographically because of low fertility.

  261. backup says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Ehud Barak. There he is again. Yair Netanyahu claims this is Ehud Barak as Anon mentions above..

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/jeffrey-epstein-and-foreign-intelligence/#comment-3320835

  262. Art Deco says:
    @Anon

    (whose media magnate father Robert Maxwell was outed as Mossad by Seymor Hersh)

    That tells you what was sloshing around in Hersh’s imagination. Not a whole lot more.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Mr. Anon
  263. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @CAL2

    What, old, rich guys making girls 14 and younger have sex with them isn’t horrific enough?

    What does their being “old” have to do with anything?

    • Replies: @CAL2
  264. @Hockamaw

    The most vexing question of many is “why now?”

    It’s not an accident. How deep down the rabbit hole can you bear to go?

    By the way, do a google image search for “Epstein Clinton” right now. It will pull up about 80% pictures of Epstein and Trump!!

    Again, it’s not an accident.

    Let your curiosity guide you.

  265. @Jack D

    It’s said the girls were aspiring models from either poor families or poor, developing countries (I’m guessing Ukraine, Russia, Thailand, Colombia etc)

  266. @Jack D

    Not the norm in Western Europe, though it sometimes happened. Look up the Hajnal Line. Late teens, maybe. But a lot of women didn’t even hit puberty until 16-18 in pre-modern times. Most women in premodern times had lots of kids in their 20s and well into their 30s/40s. You’d have had way higher maternal mortality and way more families with 20 + children if teen pregnancy was as common as you make it out to be, considering they didn’t use birth control.

  267. @Jack D

    It differs with culture, but colored southern races mature earlier. Of course much has changed through history: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/11/aristotle-on-the-age-of-consent/

    Be as it may, as I see it:

    1. Epstein was a pimp & this whole affair is disgusting, including “customers”

    2. I don’t think there was violence or coercion re these girls (I may be wrong)

    3. this whole affair is sordid

    4. American sexual morality is abysmally low, a mixture of hypocrisy & debauchery. Worse than in most other developed countries inhabited by whites.

  268. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “Sweetie, you grand-grandmother most likely started conceiving when she was 15.”

    Dear, you are not providing analogous situations. The one you are providing is typical of a marriage in a farming community, or as a newly arrived immigrant in an urban area. In Epstein’s case, he is using underage young girls to sate his immoral urges.

    “It’s impressive that with the rise in upfront pornography and gayness, with the explosion in divorce rates and STDs, all the Americans are suddenly concerned about sex with younger than 18 and / or prostitutes.”

    Actually, the Americans have been concerned for decades about this sort of activity.

    “All the humans for the last thousands of years, and most of the planet agree that it’s logical and pleasurable to have sex with a 15-year old of the opposite sex…”

    In marriage, with the parents of both the lad and the lass having approved of such an arrangement.

    “Do they brainwash you in kindergardens, like they do with the allegiance to a flag?”

    You really ought to ask yourself that question, as it appears you and Epstein have much in common.

  269. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake

    Madeleine McCann’s father Gerry McCann apparently had an earlier conviction for some serious sex offense.

    It may be that the McCann’s lived a double life but found that they had bitten off more than they could chew.

    The aftermath of Madeleine’s disappearance from a vacation home in Portugal featured the sudden intrusion of Clement Freud (grandson of Sigmund), former British MP and later BBC broadcaster who owned a villa nearby.

  270. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @LondonBob

    … Barr was a straight shooter …

    Do we really WANT a “straight shooter” as AG?

    An alligator is better adapted to dealing with the swamp creatures.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  271. Ibound1 says:
    @Jack D

    Although our Left Idiotic Educational Complex is always pushing teen age sex – and the more perverse and non-normative, the more they push for it.

    • Replies: @getaclue
  272. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    Really? All of it? Does the man get to keep ANYTHING that he worked for? This is why our divorce courts are such a shitshow.

    When you are married, you’re not entitled to spend marital assets on prostitutes, underage or not. I was unaware there was anything controversial about that.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  273. LondonBob says:
    @Spect3r

    A friend of my cousin knew the McCanns, he thought they killed their daughter. The diplomatic staff were troubled by the anomalies in the McCann’s story and suggested the government keep their distance, the nulabor press teams went with it though.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/

  274. I wrote this in 2018 about Epstein pal Les Wexner:

    Ohio has the Les Wexner mob that controls the L Brands corporation that controls Victoria’s Secret.

    Politics is getting more and more Florentine and Machiavellian as the plutocrats and the ethnic mobs finish stealing everything in sight. Through the use of monetary policy and government debt, these evil forces are even stealing from the future.

  275. @Anonymous

    He did all he could to get the prisoners left behind in vietnam back.

    God bless him

    R.I.P

    Agreed.

    He was also completely correct about “the giant sucking sound” that is NAFTA.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  276. I wrote this in September of 2018 about Les Wexner:

    Two Jews — Les Wexner and Bill Kristol — attack President Trump and his supporters.

    Les Wexner is a billionaire Ohio Jew GOP donor who hawks rags and other bits for broads — Victoria’s Secret is one of the brands that Les Wexner controls through his L Brands corporation.

    I hope Victoria’s Secret goes belly up.

    Les Wexner has financed sleazebags such as Ohio shyster boy GOP Senator Rob Portman.

    When Bill Kristol attacks “Trumpism,” what he is really doing is attacking the White Core American Patriots who provided the votes to make Trump the president of the United States.

    Bill Kristol pushed the Iraq War debacle. Bill Kristol puts the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the United States.

    Bill Kristol pushes mass legal immigration and amnesty for illegal alien invaders.

    Bill Kristol pushes sovereignty-sapping trade deal scams and transnationalism. Bill Kristol pushes nationalism for Israel and transnationalism for all other nations.

    Bill Kristol is attacking the European Christian ancestral core of the United States when he attacks “Trumpism.”

  277. Rob Portman, US Senator (R) from Ohio, should be dragged into this disgusting Epstein matter too.

    I wrote this in September of 2018 about Portman and Wexner and Klarman:

    GOP US Senator from Ohio, Rob Portman, is a filthy politician whore for Les Wexner and Seth Klarman. That’s a good Hemingway sentence, short and nasty, but true.

    Rob Portman has taken massive amounts of cash from Les Wexner and Seth Klarman. I am only referring to loot that has been reported, and not some of that brown bag cash that some politicians grab on the sly.

    The Republican Party voters must remove scum like Rob Portman from the US Senate. Portman collected $100,000 in campaign cash from Seth Klarman. Seth Klarman is the guy who bought Puerto Rico bonds on the cheap in hopes of getting full payment of the bonds.

    It would be great if President Trump said that the United States government will not bail out the investors who bet that Puerto Rico government bonds would be backstopped by the US government. Trump could name Seth Klarman and Rob Portman as two shysters who want to make the US government make good on bad bets on bonds from the likes of Seth Klarman.

  278. @Jack D

    They are going to put him away for the rest of his life just for getting “massages”

    I agree with most of what you have said in your string of posts here, but the fact is that even getting sexual massages is illegal in Florida and constitutes an act of prostitution, even more so if the persons concerned are under the age of majority. Also employing people to pimp or recruit people for illegal massages adds another layer of culpability.

    A young man over the age of 18 of my acquaintance was sent to prison for drugging and having sex with his sister who was less than 12 years of age. He was sent to prison for a year and a day.

    Epstein did not forcefully rape, kill, kidnap, impregnate, or drug anyone or give them a venereal disease, as far as I know, but he should get the going rate for whatever he did, whatever that is. The law is the law. If you exceed the speed limit, even if there is no accident, you are still subject to be fined.

    Epstein could have done what he did legally in other jurisdictions overseas, but he chose to do what he did in Florida, knowing that he was subject to Florida laws, such as not having to pay a state income tax which he no doubt liked, and not being able to have sex with underage prostitutes, which he did not like as much.

    The interesting point in the Epstein case is that he is apparently also being charged with sex

    trafficking

    which is a much more serious offence whose meaning is hard to define, but basically I think it means pimping. (Anyway trafficking in this sense is not the same as smuggling or transporting–it is more akin to trading in something illegal.)

    The definition of sex trafficking apparently includes anything that causes a minor to commit a commercial sex act. A commercial sex act is any kind of sexual performance that is rewarded with money or other items of value such as shelter, clothing, drugs, or clothing.

    Of course the devil is all in the details of who did what for who and how they were compensated, and will come out at trial, if there is ever a trial, which there will probably not be. If there is, there will be a lot of attempts to claim that whatever Epstein did was not really trafficking under the definition of the statute.

    I would have thought that locking him up until he is old enough to get Medicare, putting him on probation for the rest of his life with conditions that he must live in a halfway house, with no overseas travel, and a fine of a billion dollars or so would reduce any further danger he offers to the community.

  279. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    Epstein was not married and had no children. In fact his lifestyle was a lot like a lot of wealthy gay men except that he apparently preferred teenage girls instead of teenage boys. Somehow I think that if Epstein was gay then people wouldn’t be shouting for his blood in quite the same way that they are right now.

  280. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gordo

    He was also I recall ironically facing war crimes charges. Ironically, because it was Jewish organisations that lobbied for passage of the War Crimes Act 1991, so they could prosecute elderly East Europeans living in Britain for things allegedly done to Jews during the war.

    However, Robert Maxwell in his autobiography mentions shooting German civilians while serving with the British Army in Germany at the end of the war. Nobody paid any attention to this, until passage of this law. Had he lived, the first person prosecuted for war crimes in Britain would have been a Jew.

  281. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Robert Kraft, the owner of the NE Patriots was caught getting “massages”. The plea deal that he was offered was 100 hours of community service, attend a class on the dangers of prostitution, and pay a $5,000 fine for each count against him. That seems about right. 9999 years in prison or whatever they are going to try to pin on Epstein seems a little bit over the top.

  282. Herzog says:
    @Goatweed

    Don’t count out Angola too quickly.

  283. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco

    Time have changed. When I was growing up the average Puerto Rican girl was an abuela by the time she was 29.

  284. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Epstein could have done what he did legally in other jurisdictions overseas, …

    Actually, the days of “what happens abroad, stays abroad” are long over for U.S. residents. As part of the 9/11 institution of universal surveillance, the Feds gave themselves jurisdiction over the acts of U.S. residents outside the U.S.

    In 2003, the United States strengthened its ability to fight child sex tourism by passing the Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to End the Exploitation of Children Today Act (PROTECT Act) and the Trafficking Victim’s Protection Reauthorization Act. These laws carry penalties of up to 30 years in prison for engaging in child sex tourism. In the nine years since these laws were strengthened, HSI special agents have arrested 93 suspects on child sex tourism charges.

    “Our message is clear to all U.S. citizens: We take these crimes seriously,” said Peter Vincent, director of HSI’s Office of International Affairs. “If you dare abuse a child abroad, we will find you, send you back to the United States and prosecute you for your crimes. You might be out of the country, but you are not out of reach of U.S. law enforcement.”

    …Just last week, Jesse Osmun, 33, a former Peace Corps volunteer, was sentenced in Hartford, Conn., to 15 years in prison for sexually abusing four girls, all under the age of 6, while he was a volunteer in South Africa. He never expected that HSI special agents would arrest him for crimes he committed nearly 8,000 miles away from his Connecticut home.

    https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/notice-us-citizens-your-actions-abroad-may-have-serious-consequences

  285. getaclue says:

    The one who purposely blew the big/easy case against the Big Dem Donor Epstein that should have put him away for life in Florida State Prison was the very political Dem DA Barry Krischer in Palm Beach–against the screams of his Detectives he flushed their work/evidence…this is where the case was against Epstein–the Federal case had to rely on “crossing State lines” and was much weaker–You hear exactly zero as to this in the Globalist Propaganda Media or even in the story above for some reason, amazing what the “Media” determines to cover and “not” cover becoming “reality”–that is the real history of this fiasco not Acosta’s Office actually getting a conviction against him on the much weaker triggering evidence of a Federal Crime–a Dem DA who was very political in nature covered up for a very big Dem Donor and flushed a sexual abuse case(s) involving minors for him against the protestations of the Detectives involved…. This nicely covers some of it: https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/274255/florida-dem-who-gave-epstein-pass-providing-daniel-greenfield

  286. Jack D says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    I don’t disagree but apparently Epstein was the focus of a prior investigation, plead guilty and served his sentence. There was no public sentiment at the time that justice was not done. The current investigation seems like a “do-over” or double jeopardy. What was considered to be a relatively minor offense 15 years ago is now, suddenly in light of the righteous anger of the Me Too movement, considered to be an unspeakable crime. There are people who have committed multiple homicides who will do less time than they are asking for Epstein.

    The acts that he is accused of occurred over 15 years ago. Until the recent hysteria, it was common for non-capital crimes (including sexual offenses) to have statutes of limitations as short as 5 years. Memories fade or are “improved” over 15 years, exculpatory evidence may be lost, etc. – this is why we (used to) have statutes of limitations in the 1st place. Epstein’s proclivities were well known at the time of his 1st trial and they had every opportunity to change him with every relevant crime back then when the evidence and memories were fresh, but they didn’t. The only thing that has changed is that now America is swept up in one of its periodic witch trial hysterias. Hysterias (as the name implies) are always driven by females.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    , @tomv
    , @res
    , @Mr. Anon
  287. ATBOTL says:
    @Jack D

    You are only saying that because you are Jewish and don’t care about the sexual abuse of white children by Jews.

    This was a racially motivated crime. Epstein sought out only white goyim blondes. Epstein and Maxwell(who also raped the girls) were enacting racist fantasies of defiling white children to express their hate for whites generally. We all understand that on some level.

    We need to put that aspect of this case at the front and center.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  288. Ibound1 says:
    @Jack D

    This is why we have the law against statutory rape. This is why we are not (yet) a Muslim country where you can buy a 14 year old. Yes, our insane culture has over sexualized teen-aged girls but we still have a standard, not all of us have given up what used to be called “decency”. Epstein is a pig and a pimp.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  289. getaclue says:
    @Jack D

    No need to guess they give “Gays” a pass on this all the time–Barney Frank in Congress was caught with an underage “Call Boy” I believe and how many others also we read about and exactly zero happens….The young 10 year old boy “Desmond” dressed as a Tranny is allowed to dance on table tops for “Gay” men throwing money ala strippers — would a 10 year old girl be allowed to do so at a heterosexual mens’ bar? There would be mass arrests of all present….LGBQTP = different rules because the “Elite” want it that way and so does their “Media”…

  290. danand says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    “I would have thought that locking him up until he is old enough to get Medicare”

    Jonathan, Epstein is 66. It’s his power/knowledge that’s the real danger; that won’t go away until he’s dead or suffers Alzheimers.

  291. JMcG says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Thanks, that was a nice thing to do.

  292. Possibly OT but some of the contributors may remember Amiri Baraka,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiri_Baraka

    After a long and “distinguished literary and academic career” he was taken under the wing of WHYY, the Jewish Leninist/Stalinist/Trotzkyst NPR affiliate organ in Philadelphia, carefully nurtured and with his “prestige” properly enhanced handed over to NJ where the then governor, Jim McGreevey, “the proud gay American”, made him the state poet laureate; at that time NJ was broke but less broke than today.
    After the “Somebody blew up America” which he illadvisedly overdid by adding Israel’s Mossad as co-blowers of the Twin Towers when America would have been totally sufficient, proper and career enhancing he was out of there so fast you could see not so much as a blur; and he was about as BLACK as it gets.

  293. Anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    Six current and former heads of Israeli intelligence attended Maxwell’s funeral. The Israeli PM said that Maxwell had done much for Israel, but he had to keep this information secret because it involved covert ops.

    Maxwell was a Mossad agent.

    Maxwell’s family sued Hersh for slander and liable, due to the Mossad accusation. Hersh won the case and got an apology from the Maxwell family.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  294. getaclue says:
    @Ibound1

    “Teen Vogue” is from what I pick up on news feeds beyond creepy in encouraging deviant sex by any who read their mag–teenagers/children…explicit hardcore info and “advice”….

  295. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Young women (and young men) do not have sufficient common sense to know their own interests, which is why a healthy culture protects them.

    In today’s society as it is, who is the greater threat to the best interests of young women: mature men, or young men?

  296. anon[969] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Not all the girls and young women were snatched from the riverbank. It appears that some waded into the river. Some were of the age of consent. But most people despise reptilian predators whether or not any laws were broken.

  297. Herzog says:
    @Jack D

    I’m certain Rosie’s exes still cry themselves into their sleep each night over the loss of her generous, warm-hearted, and understanding companionship.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  298. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    He was also completely correct about “the giant sucking sound” that is NAFTA.

    That was China, not Mexico.

  299. peterike says:
    @Ibound1

    Clinton isn’t a traitor, he’s just amoral scum, like this guy.

    I guess you weren’t around in the 90s when Clinton was busily facilitating sending critical technology, including military tech, to China.

  300. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    I would have thought that locking him up until he is old enough to get Medicare, putting him on probation for the rest of his life with conditions that he must live in a halfway house, with no overseas travel, and a fine of a billion dollars or so would reduce any further danger he offers to the community.

    Your acquaintance did a year for drugging and raping a 12-year-old girl. Why should Epstein do more?

  301. lysias says:
    @Art Deco

    So who was running the Justice Department at the time?

  302. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @gcochran

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  303. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Bruce

  304. @backup

    I believe flights to the US VI were treated as domestic in the old days when Lolita Express was flying; however, a few years back DHS/CBP started requiring APIS Manifests, which would have fuller data including birthdates, for inbound from the US VI.

    I just saw an example of one of the “pilot logs,” and it is indeed a pilot logbook, with a few names in the remarks box; this is something many pilots might do if they had a celeb or someone special to them on board. It would also explain why this sort of record was not destroyed after 30 days. It probably wouldn’t survive a test in court, however. The load manifests would have been a better smoking gun.

    I do wonder what the heck they were doing in Birmingham, as in Islamabad west.

  305. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Jack D

    Didn’t he reject the plea deal?

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  306. @J.Ross

    Naked and violent is usually PCP because besides turning you psycho it overheats you.

    And you know this how?

  307. @Jack D

    I agree. Epstein is a scumbag who should have been punished more the first time, but the current hysteria and double jeopardy are not good.

  308. Jack D says:

    Yes. There are problems with the State’s case which will make it hard to get a conviction against a guy like Kraft who can afford hot and cold running lawyers. To start with, the way that they installed cameras (in a place where a people have a reasonable expectation of privacy) was by calling in a false bomb scare.

  309. Chuck says:

    Hey everybody! Let’s play spot the hasbarat!

  310. @Dave Pinsen

    Yes. Kraft rejected the deal, plead not guilty, got the judge to suppress the video, then the prosecution stopped talking about sex trafficking. Kraft is gonna walk.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  311. @BB753

    True and this distinction should also be made when discussing the “pedophile” priests in the RCC. Very few of the victims were prepubescent. They were almost all adolescent males.

    In other words, the RCC does not have a pedophile priest problem so much as they have a homosexual priest problem. The persistent use of “pedophile” is, IMO, done intentionally to mislead.

    • Agree: BB753, Hunsdon
    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Jim Don Bob
  312. Ibound1 says:
    @backup

    Epstein is going to talk. And we are going to find out. I don’t think he is anything special at all. I don’t think he is anything at all, he is something unpleasant you find on the bottom of your shoe. I think he was a low class amoral pimp to some powerful and well connected people. And those people are probably very, very nervous right now.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  313. Rosie says:
    @J.Ross

    That’s true, and the normal solution would be to bring the law into line with culture for the sake of legitimacy, but this elite is less concerned with legitimacy than Marie Antoinette.

    How low shall we go?

    12, 11, do I hear 10?

    Remember when we raised the speed limit?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  314. Gordo says:
    @Jake

    WASP Maxwell, I don’t think so.

  315. @Corn

    Plus I’m not even sure being an oedophike is a bad thing.

  316. Rosie says:
    @William Badwhite

    Very few of the victims were prepubescent. They were almost all adolescent males.

    That only matters if you assume that puberty is the main relevant consideration.

    It is a criteria that focuses on the offender and whether or not he is a pervert of some sort.
    The effect on the victim is more or less ignored. If a girl starts her period on Friday and gets molested by Epstein on Saturday, the consequences to the victim are no less severe than they would be if she was molested on Thursday.

    This is all special pleading for predators. In no other area of life is there any demand for more autonomy for teens. Just this one, imagine that!

    • Replies: @JMcG
    , @William Badwhite
    , @CJ
  317. Jack D says:
    @Rosie

    As I mentioned earlier, ideally you want the law to match people’s real world behavior so that you don’t turn almost everyone into criminals. Although the State likes it when you commit three felonies a day – that way they can lock you up any time you piss them off for some reason, or at least exact fines from you. Highway speed limits are mostly driven by the desire for revenue rather than anything having to do with safety.

    Here is a survey that indicates that around 80% of people lose their virginity (in Virginia) before they reach the statutory age of 18 (sometimes well before):

    http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/content/uploads/sites/10/2016/01/SSuN-Fact-Sheet-Age1stSex-04-10-13.pdf

    Notice that age 10 is included within the statistics. While this may give you the vapors, that is the reality. I’m not suggesting that the age of consent be lowered to 10, but 14 is not out of line based on people’s real world behavior. If you pick 16, then only 1/2 the population are criminals instead of 80% of them.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Rosie
  318. annamaria says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    You mean, it is a good thing to pimp young girls when this done in the name of the Jewish State?
    Any normal parent would have an instant understanding of a situation when a teen becomes a sexual plaything of aged men.
    What other subtle defenses for the wealthy pedophile Epstein (who quite possibly has been a Mossad helper) do you have in your arsenal?
    Or perhaps your insensitivity to the plight of the young girls is related to some bad problems you have suffered during growing up…

  319. @Flip

    One aspect of Perot that isn’t well known is that both EDS and Perot Systems disliked hiring Indians (dots). I’m sure some made it through here and there, but the general view was that they were excessively political, toxic to organizations, and spent too much of their time figuring out how to undermine peers.

    My experience with working with them (finance, not tech) has been the same.

  320. JMcG says:
    @Rosie

    I’m starting to think that some of the commenters here have ridden on Epstein’s plane.

  321. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    Notice that age 10 is included within the statistics. While this may give you the vapors, that is the reality. I’m not suggesting that the age of consent be lowered to 10, but 14 is not out of line based on people’s real world behavior. If you pick 16, then only 1/2 the population are criminals instead of 80% of them.

    The problem is with your despicable notion that because a certain thing happens it ought to be legal that ot happen, an that a government that tries to protect girls is “illegitimate.”

    Girls and women always have to suffer for “culture.”

  322. Anonymous[123] • Disclaimer says:

    Cerno’s Erin-Brockovich Moment?

  323. @Charles Pewitt

    sexually innocent young children, tens or hundreds of thousands them, abused by thousands of christian men of god in many countries

    moral outrage 3/10

    sexually experienced street-wise girls exchange money for sex acts with a rich jew

    moral outrage 12/10

    goebbels playbook

  324. @Jack D

    he apparently preferred teenage girls instead of teenage boys.

    I did too, when I was a teenage boy. Why didn’t Epstein just bang 18 and 19-year olds? As vile as he is, he is not stupid, he knew he was breaking the law. Perhaps some of the appeal to him was the illicitness of it. I highly doubt a guy of his age would view a naked 18-year woman and think “eww gross, what a disgusting, wrinkled old bat”…the underage aspect was likely a turn-on specifically because it was illegal. Well, he rolled the dice and came up snake eyes. Boo hoo.

    I agree that a millennium or whatever he’s going to get for the specific crime(s) for which he’s convicted seems high, but as has been noted by numerous commenters here regarding the hapless negroes in prison “just for marijuana possession” is that there are usually other things that were pled down or away, plus there’s all the things the police know full well they did but can’t prove. I put Epstein is in the same pile. Its hard to feel sorry for a guy that got his jollies giving the finger to the law while soiling shiksas. He brought it on himself.

  325. @Rosie

    Unfortunately you seemed to have missed the point. The RCC priest scandal is always deemed to be “pedophiles” when the problem is in fact homosexuals. Pedophile homosexuals yes, but homosexuals. The RCC priests weren’t diddling little girls.

    It is my belief that this is done in order to deflect blame from the homosexual “community” – similar to what was done with AIDS as discussed last week on this blog.

    This belief is underlined for me by the fact the same people so quick to lambast the RCC for the “pedophile” priests often are the same people griping about the Boy Scouts of America not allowing homosexual scoutmasters, when the BSA had the homosexual ban in place precisely to avoid what happened with the RCC: it is not a good idea for men sexually interested in other males to be allowed to take teenage males camping.

    However since you seem interested in splitting hairs, I will play along. I agree that a priest molesting a 16-year old boy is unconscionable, however a priest molesting an 8-year old boy is many times worse. For one thing, the 16-year old would be much more likely to be able to defend himself (if he so chose).

    • Replies: @Rosie
  326. HA says:
    @Jack D

    “Teen pregnancy was the norm for most of history in most places.”

    So was having 25% or so of the female population dying during childbirth. And comparable odds that any infant wouldn’t make it past childhood. It turns out there’s a strong connection between those two statistics and the incidence of teen pregnancy, believe it or not. So, to the extent Austria’s TFR is tragically low, there are less dysgenic ways of increasing it than being flippant about teen pregnancy and teen prostitution.

    Epstein had better hope that his lawyers will be able to argue a better defense for him than you’re doing (though I’m hoping it’s just as stupid).

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  327. Anonymous[205] • Disclaimer says:

    Jack D is really setting records for in-group /out-group thinking here.

    As he’s saying Espstein isn’t *that bad*, it’s coming out Epstein basically had recruiters trolling highschools looking for young girls.

    Meanwhile, compare JackD’s comments above, to his comments about Roy Moore a while back…

    “The core of the accusations against Moore involve the 14 year old. A thirty-something pursuing 16 year olds in a state where the age of consent is 16 is not illegal but perhaps still creepy in a way that dating a 19 year old is not. If Moore had had a 19 year old girlfriend like Disick then no one would have or could have said a word about it. But 14 year olds are off limits, so if you believe the story about the 14 year old then what Moore did was actually criminal. Not just unethical or creepy or harassment, but an actual crime.”

  328. Hibernian says:
    @Redneck farmer

    If you went overseas and allowed yourself to be debriefed upon return you’d be an asset. Agent and officer are one and the same.

  329. Hibernian says:
    @peterike

    It means a buddy there gave him a copy.

  330. Hibernian says:
    @Jack D

    A society needing higher fertility isn’t a society needing more teen motherhood. No society needs more teen motherhood.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  331. Rosie says:
    @William Badwhite

    I agree that a priest molesting a 16-year old boy is unconscionable, however a priest molesting an 8-year old boy is many times worse. For one thing, the 16-year old would be much more likely to be able to defend himself (if he so chose).

    Fair enough.

  332. Hibernian says:
    @Father O'Hara

    There are many Houlihans (Hot Lips for instance) but I never heard of an O’ Houlihan. Yea, I know, all of those names originally had an O’.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  333. Hibernian says:
    @Anonymous

    That philosophy gets you situations like the FBI/Irish Mob alliance in Boston.

  334. Hibernian says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Maybe a Monica Lewinsky type bubblehead or two.

  335. Hail says: • Website
    @CAL2

    old, rich guys making girls 14 and younger have sex with them isn’t horrific enough?

    I wonder if those questioning how bad this is would mind if it was their daughters, at 13 and 14, ‘voluntarily’ ‘recruited’ for Epstein’s operation? If it’s morally so ambiguous…

    Epstein’s crimes are monstrous because if Epstein and his sex network roped in your daughter, you’d (justly) want to kill him.

    I’d also add here that Epstein’s crimes are exactly the kind that gave rise to classical, historical anti-Semitism (the “blood libel,” as it is known: that Jewish men would prey on Christian children in the community).

    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @Anonymous
  336. Hail says: • Website
    @OilcanFloyd

    New Jeffrey Epstein accuser: He raped me when I was 15

    Jennifer Araoz says she was recruited outside her New York City high school to provide sexual massages to the wealthy financier.

    Jennifer Araoz says she was 14 years old when a young woman approached her outside her New York City high school in the fall of 2001.

    [….]

    Araoz told [Epstein] about her dream of becoming a Broadway actress and about her father, who had died of AIDS when she was 12…Epstein gave her a tour of his mansion that culminated in a visit to what he described as his “favorite room in the house,” Araoz said. A massage table sat on the floor. A painting of a nude young woman hung from the wall.

    Araoz would return to that room regularly over the next year, she said, manipulated into stripping down to her panties and giving Epstein massages…In the fall of 2002, Epstein pressured her to do more, Araoz said. He told her to remove her panties. Then he grabbed her 15-year-old body.

    “He raped me, forcefully raped me,” Araoz told NBC News in an exclusive interview. “He knew exactly what he was doing.”

    “I was terrified, and I was telling him to stop. ‘Please stop,’” Araoz, now 32, added.

    Epstein, Araoz said, ignored her pleas. She never returned to his home after that day and her life spiraled downward over the next several years as a result of the trauma, she said.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  337. @Steve Sailer

    Y’all paranoid haters.

    Little bit of fishing in the Dead Sea never did any harm to anyone.

  338. tomv says:
    @Jack D

    Epstein was the focus of a prior investigation, plead guilty and served his sentence. There was no public sentiment at the time that justice was not done.

    First, you skipped a few steps here. There was enough “sentiment” against the state prosecutor’s non-prosecution of Epstein to be reported on the O’Reilly Factor.

    There wasn’t more outrage only because it was more or less hushed up. Whether that’s due to Epstein’s Democratic or media or “intelligence” connection or all of the above, this story continued to be underplayed after his sweetheart deal with Acosta.

    Some well-informed people were scandalized, however. Here’s Ann Coulter speaking on Hannity in 2015, long before Me Too (a movement that Queen Ann does not endorse).

    The prosecutors private’s lives were investigated and according to the U.S. Attorney they were just pressured, jerked around, everything was appealed. Eventually they get Epstein to agree to plead guilty to a state charge, allegedly sentenced to 18 months, in fact it was 13 months and for 16 hours a day he was allowed to go to his mansion in Palm Beach. So he got basically no jail time. He is a registered sex offender.

    Back to your apologia.

    What was considered to be a relatively minor offense 15 years ago is now, suddenly in light of the righteous anger of the Me Too movement, considered to be an unspeakable crime.

    Running an underage sex ring is considered a minor offense by whom exactly? Certainly not the iSteve readership that was outraged by Rotherham. Weren’t you one of us? Now, when the perp is a Jewish moneyman instead of a Paki cab-driver, the victims suddenly become “underage prostitutes”?

    Epstein’s proclivities were well known at the time of his 1st trial and they had every opportunity to change him with every relevant crime back then when the evidence and memories were fresh, but they didn’t.

    Who’s “they”? And which way does that cut? A later prosecution of a defendant who failed to be prosecuted earlier despite well-known crimes is “hysteria” to you? Well then, hysteria is long overdue.

    By the way, Acosta charged Epstein with the state crimes that the Florida prosecutor declined to pursue. Maybe they didn’t know about his crimes in New York and on board Lolita Express back then? Also, what with Epstein’s power and “intelligence” connections, maybe “they” didn’t have “every opportunity”?

    The only thing that has changed is that now America is swept up in one of its periodic witch trial hysterias.

    Witch trial against Jeffrey Epstein? God no, it’s the Dreyfus Affair, Kristallnacht, and the Shoah all rolled into one!

    • Agree: peterike
  339. L Woods says:
    @Hail

    “Gee, if you had a glaring bias compromising your objectivity, you’d feel differently!” One of the dumbest recurring arguments, and that’s saying a lot.

    • Agree: Dave Pinsen
  340. @Anonymous

    This did the rounds among my Brit colleagues in the office, back in the day.

    Robert Maxwell was called “Maximum Bob” for his outré lifestyle. Then he went overboard, and was called Maximum Bob bob bob…

  341. JimDandy says:
    @Corvinus

    Yeah, thanks for pointing out something that I wasn’t talking about. Re-read the sentence you excerpted–I never said their lives were better because of their choice to turn tricks. It’s a brutal, pitiless, murderous, genocidal, crooked world we live in, and the focus on this particular scandal seems a bit, like I said, overwrought and prurient. The connection to Israel is very interesting, though, and worth looking into. Even so, this particular immoral chapter barely ranks on the lengthy list of Zionist atrocities.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  342. CAL2 says:
    @Anonymous

    If you can’t see a difference between 14-16 year-olds doing it while the parents are away and a bunch of rich guys who collect some extremely young girls to come to their island, well, I don’t know what to say.

    Not saying the 14-16 year olds going at it is good. But there is a world of difference.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  343. @Anon

    Don’t want to give away where I grew up (small city of around 20,000- 50,000) but a doctor’s 19 year old son trafficked stolen guns that he and his buddies broke into cars/boats for over the course of a year. Also sold drugs. No jail time, though he did leave for a foreign country for a year or so. And there was the daughter of a construction magnate who didn’t get any jail time/punishment for a terrible drunken wreck she caused in which a passenger in the other vehicle was killed. This chick already had 2 previous DUIs too, and she was around 21 at the time.

    Not Epstein’s level but definitely not rule of law either.

    • Replies: @Anon
  344. CJ says:
    @Rosie

    In no other area of life is there any demand for more autonomy for teens.

    Gender reassignment including surgery and hormones. You need to get up to speed on the trans thing.

  345. @HA

    It’s sort of fun watching Jack D defend Epstein at such length though. He gets himself into these situations often, with that “all-jew-all-the-time” thing he has going on.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    , @Anonymous
  346. @peterike

    Buying any Israeli software is a really stupid choice.

    True enough, and yet. There are enough connections between ‘American’ software and Israeli agents that buying ‘American’ software isn’t really any safer. And ‘buying’ obviously includes anything that’s pre-loaded on your computer, phone, etc. Try avoiding that!

  347. @Hibernian

    That’s just our anonymous ‘Talmudic Troll’ who imagines himself posing queries of great philosophical implications.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  348. @Hibernian

    And ‘yeah’ originally had an ‘h’ 😉

  349. @Tex

    Gotta love how he went overboard in the North Atlantic at what, 4am? And yet somehow they located his body hours later. Sure thing! Little-known fact: the Atlantic Ocean isn’t really much bigger than a backyard swimming pool, or a bathtub or something.

  350. Hail says: • Website
    @J.Ross

    the Clintons were regular customers

    “You can’t take a step, if you’re around the Clintons, and not run into a convicted child trafficker or child rapist.” — Alex Jones

  351. res says:
    @Jack D

    plead guilty

    Jack, as a lawyer what is your take on the correct past tense? The style manuals generally recommend pleaded, while I somehow got used to pled.

    https://jakubmarian.com/pleaded-guilty-vs-pled-guilty-which-one-is-correct/

    • Replies: @Jack D
  352. @William Badwhite

    In other words, the RCC does not have a pedophile priest problem so much as they have a homosexual priest problem. The persistent use of “pedophile” is, IMO, done intentionally to mislead.

    The other explanation is that the people using the term pedophile are stupid. With journalists, sometimes it’s not a choice between stupid and malicious, because it’s both. See the “gun show loophole”, for instance.

    I do not believe anything the MSM says. It’s too bad really. A free press is a good thing, but they have pissed all their credibility away for I know not what.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  353. @Hail

    #MeTooEpstein.

    Watch for it.

  354. I used the word “pled” in a comment here and Ron’s spell checker flagged it with a red underline, so I changed to “plead”.

  355. Jack D says:
    @res

    I’m with plead (pronounced pled).

    • Replies: @Couch Scientist
  356. HA says:
    @Jack D

    “Teen pregnancy was the norm for most of history in most places.”

    And while I’m at it, I will note that when it comes to Western civilization, teen pregnancy has not been the norm for some time:

    Although the legal minimum age at marriage in medieval England was set at 12 years, in reality, marriage at such a young age was largely restricted to the nobility, with the average age at marriage in the general population estimated at 20–25 years,…

    That statistic certainly includes a lot of 18 and 19-year-olds, but fewer 15 and 16-year-olds than is commonly imagined these days. While this is a hunch, I suspect the correlation between adolescence and the odds of dying in childbirth was obvious enough that even those who had no regard whatsoever for women (but concerned themselves solely with dowries and the sons that a woman might deliver) would still — out of sheer mercenary interest, if nothing else — want to optimize their women’s chance for survival by waiting at least until their late teens.

    Obviously, communities such as the Roma frequently chose to ignore that memo, but “why don’t we all be more like the gypsies?” was never much of a rallying cry in Europe.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  357. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hibernian

    A society needing higher fertility isn’t a society needing more teen motherhood. No society needs more teen motherhood.

    What is wrong with teen motherhood? Is it worse than spinsterhood or women having just one child when older?

  358. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna

    No one has yet been able to explain why we should differentiate between the two.

  359. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hibernian

    Get a life.

    Get an argument.

    Your point and sputter indicates your case is weak.

  360. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail

    Epstein’s crimes are monstrous because if Epstein and his sex network roped in your daughter, you’d (justly) want to kill him.

    People are ready to condemn this man before all the facts are in.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  361. Anonymous[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    While this is a hunch, I suspect the correlation between adolescence and the odds of dying in childbirth was obvious enough

    Where do you get the idea that a woman in her teens has a higher likelihood of dying in childbirth than an older woman?

    Why would women have evolved to be at high risk after puberty? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    • Replies: @HA
  362. @Charles Pewitt

    sexually innocent young children, tens or hundreds of thousands them, abused by thousands of christian men of god in many countries

    moral outrage 3/10

    sexually experienced street-wise girls exchange money for sex acts with a rich jew

    moral outrage 12/10

    goebbels playbook

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  363. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pittsburgh Thatcherite

    Eating the flesh of your own species is what causes kuru and mad cow disease. Plus the caloric benefit of non obese humans is poor.

  364. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    Optimum biological age for first birth is around 16. And in homogeneous populations the unbirthworthy genetics get filtered out in a few generations.

    I think gypsy girls are usually pretty birthworthy. They go to the ER if they have problems and have some level of access to modern medicine, but in most places they live mostly they give birth as they always have. Maternal deaths are rare, though probably a little over first world averages. Statistics are tough to nail down with this secretive and illiterate group.

    Remember when medicalized birth was introduced both fetal and maternal deaths went up, not down. And for a long time, the prevented mortality and morbidity was at least partially offset by problems caused iatrogenically in cases where had they delivered in their own beds they would have been fine.

    • Replies: @HA
    , @Rosie
    , @S. Anonyia
  365. Anonymous[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Comey didn’t search the DNC servers where emails were allegedly stolen from by the Russians: any compromising dirt on the democrats would have been leaked,

    Good point.

  366. @Jack D

    Bleed bled
    Breed bred
    Cede ceded (said)
    Feed fed
    Heed heeded (head)
    Lead led
    Need needed (-)
    Plead pled
    Read read (red)
    Weed weeded (wed)

    Should be “pled” both spelled and pronounced

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  367. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    They didn’t send Moore to jail. Seems like double standards.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  368. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Optimum biological age for first birth is around 16.”

    That is a ridiculous over-generalization (though, given that you don’t even mention what exactly you’re optimizing, I suppose you can always find something to make the claim valid, even if your target variable is something like “hotness in the eyes of horny middle-aged hedge fund CEO’s”). In any case, the claim being disputed was that “Teen pregnancy was the norm for most of history in most places.” And that is simply wrong (in addition to not being the kind of hey-who-among-us-hasn’t-boned-a-teenager? whataboutism that would get Epstein’s lawyers sued for malpractice if they try anything that lame) . If you read the article I cited, you will have noted this:

    The new analysis of pubertal development in medieval England discussed above suggests that the average age at menarche was 15–16 years. Full fertility, in terms of the likelihood of conception, carrying a healthy pregnancy to term and surviving childbirth, would only have followed several years after menarche with the completion of pelvic growth, which in our medieval sample appears to have been rare before the age of 19 years.

    Even if you restrict yourself to well-fed Western women, the claim is bogus. Sure, if you’re interested in harvesting a woman’s eggs, and that’s ALL you care about, you could make a case, I suppose. But again, that kind of calculus is not likely to endear you to a jury, or human beings in general, since most of them will allow for the possibility that there is more to women than just a pair of ovaries and the stuff in between.

    “I think gypsy girls are usually pretty birthworthy”

    Again, the “let’s all be more like gypsies” — especially in the matter of child brides — is probably not going to get us to peak-civilization, but you’re free to think whatever you want.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Sean
  369. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Where do you get the idea that a woman in her teens has a higher likelihood of dying in childbirth than an older woman?”

    Again, read the article I cited, or do your own searching:

    Complications during pregnancy and childbirth are the leading cause of death for 15 to 19 year-old girls globally…Adolescent mothers (ages 10 to 19 years) face higher risks of eclampsia, puerperal endometritis, and systemic infections than women aged 20 to 24 years…

    https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/adolescent-pregnancy

  370. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco

    That tells you what was sloshing around in Hersh’s imagination. Not a whole lot more.

    Well, we know what sloshes around in your imagination. Nothing. As you have none.

    However a lot of interesting things have sloshed around in Hersh’s head.

    He is interesting and worth paying attention to.

    You are not.

  371. @Jack D

    Mom’s apple pie, the Fourth of July….

  372. Mr. Anon says:
    @04398436986

    There was plenty of moral outrage attending the outrages committed by Catholic churchmen. Much of it expressed by Catholic lay people, even if the church heirarchy didn’t share their concerns.

    Hollywood even made a “major motion picture” about it:

    Spotlight

    It won a couple of oscars, including best picture.

    Did Hollywood make a movie about Jeffrey Epstein?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Ibound1
  373. Mr. Anon says:
    @Sean

    Epstein is not a billionaire.

    So it has been said. That’s why I put billionaire in quotes.

    He was the only client or customer of the ‘trafficking’ he is charged with,…..

    No, that is not clear at all. Certainly not proven.

    …….and seeing that it could easily get one 20 years the idea he was some kind of pimp to the elite is laughable.

    No, I don’t think it is. Based on what is now known, such as what some of the girls have alleged, it seems like he was just that very thing.

    • Replies: @Sean
  374. @Mr McKenna

    Where on Earth do you read any defence of Epstein? He’s written not a word defending Epstein or Epstein’s actions.

    I kiss the day’s when Mr. Sailer’s visitors could read….

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  375. @Couch Scientist

    The Couch Scientist is correct; Jack is remiss.

    Don’t use popular sentiment or sheer numbers to determine spelling. By those lites u may b up all nite going thru alot of bad data.

    • Replies: @res
  376. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Jim Don Bob

    He should walk. He’s an elderly widower who paid hundreds of dollars to a middle aged woman who serviced him and seems to have an affectionate relationship with him. No victim there.

  377. JMcG says:
    @Herzog

    It took me 25 years to go from philosemite to neutral. You guys have turned me anti in a couple of hours.

  378. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jack D

    The Feds negotiated an agreement with Epstein’s lawyers, among them Alan Dershowitz and Ken Starr (yes, that Ken Starr) to NOT prosecute people who might subsequently be found complicit in Epstein’s crimes. Why the Hell would they do that? Is it customary for law enforcement agencies to cut sex offenders such a cushy deal – both for them and for anybody they may have conspired with? Acosta claims he was under some pressure from higher up to make this deal. According to Ann Coulter, the local Florida States Attorney, Barry Krischer, punted on the whole thing and was willing to essentially let Epstein walk. The whole thing stunk to high heaven.

  379. Mr. Anon says:
    @Ibound1

    Epstein is going to talk. And we are going to find out.

    I wouldn’t count on that.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  380. Anon[150] • Disclaimer says:
    @S. Anonyia

    So you believe these type of incidents are much more common in rural areas than in the major metros?

    Why do you think that is? Is it because these areas are insular and tight knit, so they operate outside the norms of mainstream society and tolerate more corruption?

  381. @Anonymous

    Meanwhile, compare JackD’s comments above, to his comments about Roy Moore a while back…

    “The core of the accusations against Moore involve the 14 year old. A thirty-something pursuing 16 year olds in a state where the age of consent is 16 is not illegal but perhaps still creepy in a way that dating a 19 year old is not. If Moore had had a 19 year old girlfriend like Disick then no one would have or could have said a word about it. But 14 year olds are off limits, so if you believe the story about the 14 year old then what Moore did was actually criminal. Not just unethical or creepy or harassment, but an actual crime.”

    For which Moore was rewarded by becoming AL’s Chief Justice and then AL’s GOP nominee to replace Jeff Sessions. I think Epstein would settle for just staying out of prison.

  382. @Mr. Anon

    Richard Gere will play Jeffrey Epstein.

  383. @Autochthon

    Pretty ironic little insult from you. Here are just a few examples, though you really should do your own homework, and for my part I got sick before long and had to stop:

    “teenage girls who willingly and repeatedly put themselves into a situation”

    “Epstein was not jumping out from behind the bushes to rape these girls”

    “what they were doing with Epstein for pay was no different than what they were already doing with their boyfriends for free. Probably they were doing more with their boyfriends since Epstein seemed to confine himself (mostly) to “massages”.

    “if Epstein was gay then people wouldn’t be shouting for his blood”

    “They are going to put him away for the rest of his life just for getting “massages”

    I do believe Jack is actually crying at the injustice of it all.
    And I’m hardly the only one to notice. Et tu?

    • Agree: Lurker, HammerJack
    • Replies: @Autochthon
  384. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    I’m not arguing we should be more like gypsies. I’m just saying that from a pure biological perspective 16 to 18 is the best age for a woman to have a first baby. I’m not arguing that pure biology should be the only criterion, either.

    I do believe women should be taught all the facts, though. Having children will be the most significant life event for most women, trying to “have it all” is usually a disaster, and like that Rod Stewart song said, time is a thief when you’re undecided. Not every woman should give birth, but most barren does regret it.
    And obstetricians are generally just one notch from Scientologists and alchemists.

    • Replies: @HA
  385. Sean says:
    @HA

    For living to a hundred years old, being born to a 16 year old gives you a better chance than if your mother was 21 when you were born.

    • Replies: @HA
  386. @Hockamaw

    By the way, do a google image search for “Epstein Clinton” right now. It will pull up about 80% pictures of Epstein and Trump!!

    However, there are no pictures of Clinton and Epstein together, unlike Epstein and Trump. I did a search on duckduckgo, and also found some pictures of Epstein with Trump.

  387. Ibound1 says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Did Hollywood make a movie about Epstein? Epstein wouldn’t even get noticed in Hollywood. He couldn’t even have made a living there – the competition of sociopathic sexual predators would have been too tough.

  388. @Mr McKenna

    The quoted text is no defence of Epstein. It contains criticism of the charges and reminders many, perhaps all, of the alleged victims are no angels. I realise the nuance is lost on you, which was my earlier point.

  389. HA says:
    @Sean

    “For living to a hundred years old, being born to a 16 year old gives you a better chance than if your mother was 21 when you were born.”

    Even if that’s true — and outside a very specific context that you self-servingly forgot to omit, I suspect it isn’t — it doesn’t disprove anything I’ve said. There’s far more to life expectancy than the far right hand of the curve that starts at 100. What’s that quip by Twain about statistics?

  390. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “I’m not arguing we should be more like gypsies.”

    Actually, in this particular instance, that’s exactly what you’re doing. Reread your comments about how you “think” (absent any citations or evidence, mind you) that “gypsy girls are usually pretty birthworthy”.

    ” I’m just saying that from a pure biological perspective 16 to 18 is the best age for a woman to have a first baby.”

    Wrong again — or at least that’s a gross over-generalization. Even if we limit ourselves to “pure biology”, there’s more to consider about childbirth than fertility. It’s not just about conception — it’s about being able to carry the child to term without complications to the child or to herself, and just as importantly, being mature enough to find a partner who is able and willing to help her along instead of relying on her own family (much less the government). Sure, the latter course of action is more the norm in Africa (and among increasingly many subpopulations in the West), but it is associated with numerous problems. I know everyone here wants to blame all that on IQ, but even if that’s true, it’s worth noting that in the end, low IQ in and of itself doesn’t kill you. It’s the stupid things that low-IQ people tend to do that kills you, or at least, doesn’t make you stronger. So let’s all agree to not be stupid, and to avoid them.

    Again, address the article that I raised, which noted that even in medieval England people were well aware of the risks of teenage motherhood. Yes, it’s true that teenagers have been getting pregnant for as long as anyone can remember, but it’s also true that people have recognized that women from “good families”, so to speak, don’t do that kind of thing, and to the extent that some lech or some guitar idol or silent-screen or Motown megastar gets to flout the rules, people are going to get upset. If you’re going to be cavalier or flippant about what young girls and the men who lust after them do, you ought to make allowances for the part about the outrage, too, and understand that it also has plenty of biology and history to back it up.

    • Replies: @BB753
  391. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    And in homogeneous populations the unbirthworthy genetics get filtered out in a few generations.

    Setting aside the appalling disregard for girls’ wellbeing here, you have to consider that the girls who are being “bred out” are likely to be the ones whose babies have the largest heads. Slow maturation is correlated with IQ.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  392. peterike says:
    @Anonymous

    Jack D is really setting records for in-group /out-group thinking here.

    As he’s saying Espstein isn’t *that bad*, it’s coming out Epstein basically had recruiters trolling highschools looking for young girls.

    While Jack D is often reasonable, some topics really, one might say, really bring out the Jew in him. I first noticed this during discussions of the Notre Dame fire.

    • Agree: Charon
  393. Sean says:
    @Mr. Anon

    A then 27 year old receptionist employee of Epstein now says Epstein and Maxwell sexually assaulted her. That sounds like something that a woman of that age would have reported if true, and was more like a threesome going by her not making a criminal complaint. Maxwell was Epstein’s factotum and dealt with his staff and appointments. Another employee of Epstein’s says she dealt with Maxwell in relation to sexual services for Epsien, but she had also made allegations about meeting the Gores at Epstein’s and the Gores insist they don’t know him. This is the woman that Dershowitz blew up about because she said she used a court filing procedure to let her allegations about him be reported in the media without Dershowitz being able to sue her for defamation. He put a stop to that by showing these celebrities she claims to have met at Epstein’s could not have been there, Clinton has secret service protection and their records ect.

    • Replies: @HA
  394. @Anonymous

    That is just not true for slow-maturing populations like Europeans and East Asians. Left in a typical premodern village with plenty of hard work and exercise and zero obesity, many girls won’t even START their first period until 14-17. And it usually takes some time after first menses for regular ovulation to occur.

    Optimal first birth is 19-24. If you look at Europe’s nobility, this was when it typically occurred. Were there exceptions? Sure. But this seems optimal.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  395. @Intelligent Dasein

    GHW Bush gave us Clinton. If ever there was a case of an incumbent president throwing an election campaign…

  396. @Jack D

    In Hungary (and many other countries) the age of consent is 14, but the legal age limit to engage in prostitution or pornography is 18. (And it’s not the girl who will get punished, just to clarify.) So what Epstein did would be criminal, while what Moore did would not.

    I understand your point – the girls were willing to sleep for money. However, they were teenagers, and teenagers are not supposed to fully understand the consequences of their decisions. Don’t offer to pay them money for sex, because if they accept it, and then later have regrets, it’ll be your fault, certainly legally, and I’d say on balance morally, too.

    Morally, even having sex with such a young girl is questionable, as you pointed out in your other comment about Moore. (Has anyone been able to prove that Moore had sex with any of those women who accused him? Either while they were girls or any later?) In my opinion, it’s not that questionable if he wanted to engage in long term sexual relationships with them, like Paul Walker did to his underage girlfriends. (He probably wanted a very long term relationship with his last girlfriend, possibly marrying her.) But having sex with the intention of throwing them out quickly afterwards? (I don’t know anything about Moore to say which one he wanted. The composer Anton Bruckner kept proposing to very young girls, each of whom he intended to marry.)

    Tl;dr
    What Epstein did was clearly criminal, while what Moore did was not.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Rosie
  397. BB753 says:
    @HA

    In the past, most women were malnourished and reached puberty later. That doesn’t preclude a healthy, well-fed 16 year old young women from giving birth, past and present.

    • Replies: @HA
  398. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibound1

    This is why we have the law against statutory rape.

    Why do we have a statutory rape law and why are young men exempt?

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @L Woods
  399. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Six current and former heads of Israeli intelligence attended Maxwell’s funeral. The Israeli PM said that Maxwell had done much for Israel, but he had to keep this information secret because it involved covert ops.

    If he did so much for Israel, why is Yair Netanyahu going after him?

  400. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @annamaria

    Any normal parent would have an instant understanding of a situation when a teen becomes a sexual plaything of aged men.

    If a teen becomes a sexual plaything, what is the difference between being one for a younger man versus for an older man?

    For that matter, what is the difference between a younger woman being a plaything and an older woman being one?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  401. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Jack D is really setting records for in-group /out-group thinking here.

    Feel free to challenge with reason the arguments he is making. Your ad hominem raises the question whether you are able to.

  402. @LondonBob

    “Barr is the real deal”

    If the real deal is a public tit addicted shyster, then, yes, Barr is the real deal. Barr’s career has always been enabling government crime and constructing coverups. He’s a typical Trump appointee in that he’s exactly the wrong person to trust with the job he was appointed to do and exactly the right person to do the job that the deep state needs for him to do.

    You write as if you had never heard of him before he was appointed AG.

    Don’t be too shocked when he stabs Trump in the back.

  403. Rosie says:
    @reiner Tor

    In my opinion, it’s not that questionable if he wanted to engage in long term sexual relationships with them, like Paul Walker did to his underage girlfriends. (He probably wanted a very long term relationship with his last girlfriend, possibly marrying her.)

    It’s certainly less bad, but it’s still not good. If a man is much older than a girl he is courting, it raised the question of what he has been doing in the meantime. Pumping and dumping, I would imagine, or perhaps hiring prostitutes. Either way, not good.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Anonymous
  404. res says:
    @Autochthon

    What about the style guides? For example, see https://www.grammarly.com/blog/pleaded-pled/

    you’ll notice that pleaded is the form that’s more commonly used by media outlets. And that makes sense if you consider the fact that The AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style both prefer the longer form. Oxford Dictionaries states that pled is the North American, Scottish, and dialect-specific way to form the past tense of plead. Merriam-Webster lists both forms. In the legal community, which seems to be very invested in the debate due to the frequent use of the verb plead in legal terminology, both terms are used more or less equally.

    P.S. FWIW remember that in my original comment I noted that I was used to pled. I asked Jack D about it because he is a smart, educated, lawyer (as are you IIRC) and was using the least common variant.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  405. @Rosie

    It’s certainly less bad, but it’s still not good. If a man is much older than a girl he is courting, it raised the question of what he has been doing in the meantime.

    Well, certainly not an ideal lifepath, but many things could happen. He could break up with previous girlfriends or divorce his wife through no fault of his own, he could get widowed, or he might have made mistakes in his life which he now regrets.

    Whatever happened, I think it’s not morally wrong to propose to very young girls, if your intentions are serious. As a father, I’d be worried about such guys, because

    – I’d also question what they had done before (basically, what you wrote)

    – I’d assume his intentions are not serious

    – even if I could be sure his intentions were serious, I’d assume his intentions could quickly change

    – my very young daughter would mature over time, while the much older boyfriend… much less so, so even if the commitment would stay strong, there’d still be hurdles

    On balance, extreme age difference is not very much recommended for either party. My point was simply that it’s not necessarily morally wrong.

  406. Corvinus says:
    @JimDandy

    “Yeah, thanks for pointing out something that I wasn’t talking about.”

    I know, that was the problem.

    “It’s a brutal, pitiless, murderous, genocidal, crooked world we live in, and the focus on this particular scandal seems a bit, like I said, overwrought and prurient”.

    Actually, it is not a scandal, it is a crime. And it assuredly is other than “overwrought and prurient”.
    Just stop before you dig a bigger hole.

    “The connection to Israel is very interesting, though, and worth looking into.”

    Possible connection.

    “Even so, this particular immoral chapter barely ranks on the lengthy list of Zionist atrocities.”

    Or non-Zionist, or Christian, atrocities. Take your pick.

  407. @res

    I encounter both about euqally often. I myself write (and prefer) pled. Honestly, it’s one of those past participles with two correct forms like knelt / kneeled or dreamt / dreamed.

    I favour British usage and spellings over others Who but the earliest speakers of a language can be said to know it best or claim the truest form of it; besides I find the British forms less ambiguous both sonically and visually (see the Couch Scientist’s points) and more aethestically and logically sound. I also lived in Europe, and I consumw more European media (mostly music and literature) than others. What’s more I am a reactionary, paleoconservative old curmudgeon who loathes trendy new forms born of sloth and efforts to be hip. These are all all my own pecadillos, though.

  408. @Jim Don Bob

    The other explanation is that the people using the term pedophile are stupid. With journalists, sometimes it’s not a choice between stupid and malicious, because it’s both. See the “gun show loophole”, for instance.

    Many if not most “journalists” are just chirping parrots repeating what’s been said before, but the term “pedophile” with regards to the RCC is an intentional choice to deflect blame from a bunch of predatory homosexuals.

    As I said somewhere else, it is no different than how “journalists” went to elaborate lengths to pretend the AIDS epidemic was not caused by homosexuals.

    Homos are high on the totem pole, and most journalists’ job is to lie for TPTB. The fact that not ONE journalist working at any mainstream media outlet has raised the question “why is that none of the RCC victims are female?” tells you everything.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  409. @Mr. Anon

    Look what happened to Jim McDougal in Federal jail. Then his wife Susan spent 18 months in jail for contempt of court because she refused to rat out the Clintons.

  410. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @CAL2

    If you can’t see a difference between 14-16 year-olds doing it while the parents are away and a bunch of rich guys who collect some extremely young girls to come to their island, well, I don’t know what to say.

    Not saying the 14-16 year olds going at it is good. But there is a world of difference.

    If there were an obvious and meaningful difference between a younger male having sex and an older male having sex, wouldn’t you be able to state what it is?

  411. @Jack D

    If nature is against teenage childbirth

    I don’t think nature is against it, but, generally speaking, it takes several years for nature to finish its work on females (or males). So a 14 year old boy with his 14 year old girlfriend could technically start a family, but the boy is neither strong nor smart enough yet to support the girl, nor are the girl’s reproductive system and body yet at their full strength (not to say her mind is not yet fully mature), which means certain risks are higher.

    As an example, medieval kings often married at a very early age, but they often didn’t consummate the marriage until much later. The Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus blew his chances of starting a dynasty when he immediately consummated his marriage to the daughter of the Bohemian king. (He was clearly infatuated, according to sources.) His young wife died of complications of marriage. It has been asserted by historians that such complications were less likely in older queens, though her mother also died of childbirth at age 24, so maybe that’s not totally the case.

    Anyway, there are many societies (medieval and even ancient European societies among them) where age of marriage was customarily higher than 18. Since they also frowned upon premarital sex, childbirth generally didn’t start until the late teenage years or early twenties.

    So the idea (especially from Europeans) that it’s “unnatural” might have some genetic basis (i.e. Europeans have lived for millennia or longer in “late childbirth” societies).

    • Replies: @Rosie
  412. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    It’s certainly less bad, but it’s still not good. If a man is much older than a girl he is courting, it raised the question of what he has been doing in the meantime. Pumping and dumping, I would imagine, or perhaps hiring prostitutes. Either way, not good.

    If a man is younger, it is more likely he will pump and dump than in the case of an older man. Therefore, the woman the younger man is with is more likely to become a victim of pump and dump than if she were with a more mature man.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @L Woods
  413. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna

    It’s sort of fun watching Jack D defend Epstein at such length though. He gets himself into these situations often, with that “all-jew-all-the-time” thing he has going on.

    I am as critical of JackD’s occasional ethnocentrism as anyone, but he is making some very perceptive and reasonable arguments in this thread. And largely he is being met with ad hominems and emotional point-and-sputter. That’s a tell that his arguments are the better ones.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Charon
    , @Mr. Anon
  414. @James Bowery

    Bob Foote, alias Gordon Duff, is a Hillary shill.
    I stopped reading Veterans Today, after one of my comments was edited to exclude information, of which I had personal knowledge, that contradicted Duff’s claims.

  415. @Anonymous

    Depending on the jurisdiction, young men are not exempt.

  416. Rosie says:
    @reiner Tor

    So the idea (especially from Europeans) that it’s “unnatural” might have some genetic basis (i.e. Europeans have lived for millennia or longer in “late childbirth” societies).

    That might have been the secret to our success. Unplanned c-section rates increase with neonatal head circumference.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27628240

    With early marriage and childbearing, you’d be more likely to kill off the most intelligent young mothers, whose infants would be expected to have the largest heads,

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  417. @Jack D

    No underage girl was involved in Robert Kraft’s case. Here we’re talking about multiple underage girls, like possibly hundreds of them. There was no organization to traffic them (creating a criminal organization is always a way more serious crime than simply engaging in the crime itself), nor were there others involved (i.e. not one prostitute was pimped out to other guys etc.), so it was a much much simpler and much much smaller crime. And a victimless one, because while offering money for sex to a 16-yr-old girl is not exactly victimless (the girl at 18 might be a victim – when she realizes she became a prostitute, or when she gets burnt out, whatever – one girl even committed suicide, unless I’m mistaken), an adult woman should certainly be mature enough to understand the consequences. (Though, she might be stupid, which at least raises a moral question.)

    • Replies: @Jack D
  418. Jack D says:
    @William Badwhite

    The reason they haven’t raised it is because it isn’t true. While the modal victim was a boy between the age of 11 and 14, around 1 in 5 victims was female. This is a significant percentage and not just the exceptions that prove the rule. There were 11,000 allegations studied (to be fair – over a 50 year period) so this meant that there were over 2,000 female victims – this is much more than “none”.

    Of the abused, 81% were male, and 19% were female, 22% were younger than age 11, 51% were between the ages of 11 and 14, and 27% were between the ages of 15 and 17 years when first abused.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States

    Given the usual homosexual patterns, I would guess that the gay priests had more victims per priest than the straight ones so that the % of abusers who were straight was higher than the 19% indicated by the % of victims.

  419. Jack D says:
    @ATBOTL

    This is pure projection and fantasy on your part. There is zero evidence for what you are saying. Trump also has a thing for attractive blonde girls, as do a lot of guys (“Gentlemen prefer blondes”). Was this also a result of his racial hatred for whites?

    We need to put that aspect of this case at the front and center.

    Good luck with that outside of Der Sturmer. I’m sure that this angle is going to be pushed hard in the NY Times, etc.

  420. Jack D says:
    @reiner Tor

    I don’t doubt that what Epstein did (again remember these allegations relate to events that happened 15+ years ago and were (or should have been) addressed the last time he was prosecuted for the same set of facts) is of greater magnitude than Kraft’s offenses and even his original punishment, which he has already served, was greater than the plea bargain offered to Kraft.

    However, I also get the feeling that some of the current allegations against him in the press – that he was the procurer in some massive scheme to supply Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Alan Dershowitz and others with hundreds of underage prostitutes tricked into white slavery, are greatly exaggerated and certainly beyond what is ever going to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. My guess is that in the end, the “hundreds” of victims will dwindle down to a handful (of girls who were willing recipients of Epstein’s cash at the time but have since had 2nd thoughts) and that the accusations of procuring for high profile figures won’t be proven at all.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @reiner Tor
  421. L Woods says:
    @Anonymous

    Because the Good and the Great have decreed that early blooming athletes, drug dealers and aspiring rappers are entitled to take prima noctum with everyone else’s future wives (who will then be farcically marched down the aisle in purity-symbolizing white). This is, of course, Good.

  422. L Woods says:
    @annamaria

    So iow, more inane shaming language. About says it all.

  423. @Jack D

    girls who were willing recipients of Epstein’s cash at the time but have since had 2nd thoughts

    My problem with this is that the girls were underage, i.e. not mature enough to decide whether engaging in prostitution for a few hundred (or thousand, or even hundred thousand) bucks would be worth it or not. It might not be highly ethical to do that with 18-year-olds, but with legally underage girls there’s both a moral and a legal case: they were simply too dumb at the time to know, and Epstein knew or should’ve known this. (I.e. the default assumption when paying cash for sex to an underage girl is that the girl is too immature to understand it and that she will almost certainly come to regret it later on – in other words, you are basically destroying her life, or at least doing her harm. She will get used to the money, and spend it on stupid things, and before long she’ll be set on a path to becoming a full-time prostitute – whereas, had she not been set on this path while still 16 or 17, she might never have done so by the time she turned 18. Perhaps she’d have gone to college, or have had a stable a boyfriend, etc.)

    A 16-year-old girls, who accepts money for sex from a very old guy, is certainly not smart enough to understand the consequences of engaging in prostitution. Thus, her being “willing” is not quite material to the case, except that, had she been unwilling, it would certainly make the crime much more horrific. But it’s bad enough.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  424. @Jack D

    some of the current allegations against him in the press – that he was the procurer in some massive scheme to supply Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Alan Dershowitz and others with hundreds of underage prostitutes tricked into white slavery, are greatly exaggerated and certainly beyond what is ever going to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. My guess is that in the end, the “hundreds” of victims will dwindle down to a handful (of girls who were willing recipients of Epstein’s cash at the time but have since had 2nd thoughts) and that the accusations of procuring for high profile figures won’t be proven at all

    That’s not unlikely at all, though I’d reserve judgment over whether it truly happened or not – I certainly find it within the realm of possibilities that he did engage in all those things. Just as I certainly find it possible that Michael Jackson was a pedophile who molested hundreds of children.

    The worst things staying unproven doesn’t mean they didn’t happen, though of course it means that they are, well, unproven, and so it must be possible (maybe likely, even) that they never happened at all.

  425. Jack D says:
    @S. Anonyia

    17 is extremely late for 1st menarche. The only places this might have been seen was in the past in places with a hardscrabble existence verging on malnutrition so that girls had <10% body fat (e.g. the far northern fringes of Europe where the land was marginal for growing crops, esp. before the introduction of the potato). Under such conditions it's hard for girls to accumulate a sufficient amount of estrogen. There is nowhere in the modern world where this is seen outside of war zones.

  426. Jack D says:
    @reiner Tor

    People have a natural tendency to want to pick the “bad guy” and the “good guy” in every interaction and assign 100% blame to one and 0% blame to the other. I don’t disagree that in any interaction involving underage prostitution, the male is usually (perhaps except in rare cases where for example the male is tricked as to the prostitute’s age) more at fault than the female, but this does not mean that the female (even if underage) has no moral culpability herself. Real life involves shades of gray. The modern tendency to proclaim that “victim blaming is always wrong” is often an attempt to obfuscate unpleasant truths which should not really be swept under the rug, by people who have a financial or political interest in doing just that.

    Also the idea that such an experience “destroys your life” is just modern psychobabble, often again by people angling for a big $ settlement. For example, in post-war Germany, getting raped by Russian soldiers was a more or less daily occurrence for German women. They would brush it off and go on with their lives. Nothing was permanently “ruined”.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  427. Moderator: my prior comment is not appearing. Glitch? or does it violate any terms?

  428. nebulafox says:

    I think everybody is making way too much about of this. Jeff Epstein was a horny guy with money, surrounded with available young women. There’s not much more to it.

  429. @Anonymous

    His arguments were similar when no Jews were involved. For example when Trump was accused, or when the swimmer was tried for having raped a knocked out drunk girl.

    His points are usually good, though I don’t always agree with them, regardless of the Jewish angle.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  430. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    >For example, in post-war Germany, getting raped by Russian soldiers was a more or less daily occurrence for German women. They would brush it off and go on with their lives. Nothing was permanently “ruined”.

    Most of them repressed it and just absolutely refused to talk about it, often until their dying day, for a variety of reasons. The incentives to do that were unusually strong in postwar Germany, for obvious reasons, but far from unique to it.

    Being raped does impact you. You can and usually do move on with your life and put it in your past. Humans are way more resilient than modern life gives them credit for. Survivors of the Khmer Rouge have managed to do so, survivors of the Cultural Revolution have managed to do so, survivors of acid attacks or murder attempts have managed to do. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t leave a mark. It does stay with you, from my experience. I’m not going to talk about my own SO’s experiences in detail, or that of my own family members, out of respect for their privacy. But the way they act and the way they simply just shove it in the background… they didn’t “brush it off”. They made a very active effort to repress it as much as they can, mostly successfully: they are all fully functional human beings, and life went all. But there were always a few key clues when it comes to how they unconsciously behave around single young men of a certain ethnic background, or if there’s a rape story in the news, or yadda yadda yadda…

    • Replies: @Jack D
  431. @Jack D

    Real life involves shades of gray.

    True. But here you have a very smart 50-year-old guy and a bunch of dumb and inexperienced 16-17-year-old girls. Legally only the guy is to blame, and morally he takes most of the blame.

    the idea that such an experience “destroys your life” is just modern psychobabble

    I don’t think rape necessarily destroys a woman’s life. But it’s bad, and could cause long term harm. (How many of those German women committed suicide? How many were mentally unhealthy one way or another? Probably no one counted the excess deaths much, and no one cared for mental problems much. But I agree that the majority turned out alright.)

    However, this is different. He gave them lots of money, and created expectations for them. It was probably similar to how lottery winners’ lives are often destroyed. They spend the money and are then unable to make it. These girls were able to make it again, but only by engaging in it again. Did it interfere with getting a normal boyfriend and starting a family? Probably. Did it interfere with getting normal education and a job? Maybe not. Maybe yes.

    I’m pretty sure that their lives would be, on average, quite a bit better, had they never been introduced to this glitzy life of being a whore to billionaires and other famous and powerful guys.

    So there’s harm here. The harm might not have happened if they had been older (they might have already had a boyfriend who would have talked them out of it; they might have been more mature; etc.), but most likely the exact same harm would have happened. (The girls might have been exactly as dumb at 18 as at 16.) So morally it’d still be questionable, at least. But legally, it’d be different. Legally, we have to assume that upon reaching the age 18, they’d have become smart. And it’s probably true in some cases: many people are smarter at 18 than at 16. At least for these it would have mattered.

  432. nebulafox says:
    @JerseyJeffersonian

    Israeli spies have the liberty to be unusually aggressive in the United States, because unlike the Russians or Chinese or Iranians, they can always rely on legions of useful idiots in Washington to prevent anything too bad from happening if caught.

    Not that they normally are. Israeli reputation for competence in intelligence-craft is well-earned for a reason.

  433. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    You mistake description for advocacy.

  434. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    If a man is younger, it is more likely he will pump and dump than in the case of an older man. Therefore, the woman the younger man is with is more likely to become a victim of pump and dump than if she were with a more mature man.

    But she is also rewarding the serial pumping and dumping he did before. He gets to pump and dump for ten or fifteen years, then poach a younger wife from the next generation?

    No. He should court and marry a woman his own age.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    , @Anonymous
  435. nebulafox says:
    @Rosie

    >No. He should court and marry a woman his own age.

    Too bad that a lot of women refuse to do the same in their early 20s.

    Not terribly shocking that a decade later when a lot of these men have bloomed, they aren’t interested in “being there” for the women who would have laughed them off and are now looking for a sucker to settle down with.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  436. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    But she is also rewarding the serial pumping and dumping he did before. He gets to pump and dump for ten or fifteen years, then poach a younger wife from the next generation?

    I thought we were concerned about the young woman here? The younger man is more likely to pump and dump her and less likely to be able to support her financially than the older man is.

    And the older man is arguably just as much a victim of pump and dump culture as the many women who participate in it are. It is a societal problem, and one, incidentally, that may be best addressed by women’s wittholding sex until marriage.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  437. Jack D says:
    @nebulafox

    I agree with what you are saying, but incentives play a big big part in how people deal with such things. If there is money/societal approbation in making a big deal out of a trauma, then you play it for all that it is worth and you build your identity around it as a “survivor”. If you get nothing for it or are treated as a pariah for even bringing it up, then you keep your mouth shut. Maybe the trauma is still there, but it’s like the difference between an old wound that is healed up and is only a faint scar now and one that you keep scratching so that it remains an open sore.

    These girls can all hear the “ka-ching” of the cash register so they are singing the “Epstein ruined my life (by giving me all that money)” tune now as loud as they can.

    • Agree: nebulafox
    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @Rosie
  438. L Woods says:
    @Anonymous

    Any common idiot can see this. Clearly, this thread is filled with uncommon idiots (and of course, aging women).

  439. L Woods says:
    @Jack D

    There’s that, and the general extreme opprobrium directed towards any perceived assailment of female power, that most sacred of “our” values.

  440. @Jack D

    The reason they haven’t raised it is because it isn’t true. While the modal victim was a boy between the age of 11 and 14, around 1 in 5 victims was female. This is a significant percentage and not just the exceptions that prove the rule.

    No, it is true.

    Fair enough, I was using hyperbole by saying “none” were female. I knew there were quite a few female victims in terms of raw numbers, but not in percentage terms. We can argue about the definition of “significant” and I concede 19% is not “none”, but I would argue that 81% of the victims being of one sex when the distribution of potential victims by sex is roughly 50/50 would indicate homosexuality was by far the primary driver of the abuses.

    Given the usual homosexual patterns, I would guess that the gay priests had more victims per priest than the straight ones so that the % of abusers who were straight was higher than the 19% indicated by the % of victims.

    This doesn’t follow. The “usual homosexual pattern” of a high number of sexual partners (relative to even the most prolific heterosexual male) is a function of both participants having similar proclivities. In heterosexual interactions, females act as sort of a brake. Think back to the comments on the “Gay Liberation caused AIDS” post with the gay males surveyed in the early 80’s claiming on average 1,100 sexual partners with some claiming more than 3,000. If you counted up all the people in the world with 1,100 sexual partners (not counting prostitutes), I’d guess 98% or more were homosexual. Finding 1,100 willing females would take a LOT of time – it’s not like there are bathhouses full of them willing to have sex with anyone that wants to as there are in the homosexual world.

    In the priest situation, the availability of potential victims both male and female would function as the brake. Male or female, the vast majority were likely not interested in sex with their priest so the usual gay prolific patterns wouldn’t hold. Also bear in mind that most of these weren’t “hold them down and rape them” interactions, there would be usually some degree of consent (I am NOT excusing it, this was 100% abuse) so the priests would have needed to be selective. In fact, I’ll go further and posit that among those “available” a significant number were boys questioning their sexuality. I’m not RCC so can’t say for sure, but I assume that is one of the things a boy might talk to his priest about (the confidentiality and all that; also not wanting their parents to know). Horny teen girls aren’t going to have sex with their priest, they’re going to have sex with their boyfriends. That’s a lot of words to say I think the homosexual priests likely had MORE victims per priest than the heterosexual ones.

    The RCC priest problem is overwhelmingly due to homosexuality and I stand by my assertion that is the reason journalists persist in using “pedophile”.

  441. Charon says:
    @Anonymous

    Just above, you appear to deliberately misinterpret an argument for keeping lechers away from children. Yeah, it bothers some of us. The sophistry isn’t helping, Mr. Anonymous.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/jeffrey-epstein-and-foreign-intelligence/#comment-3323872

  442. @Cagey Beast

    The other Seth Rich case.

    I miss Marion Barry.

  443. Rosie says:
    @nebulafox

    Too bad that a lot of women refuse to do the same in their early 20s.

    I’ve heard a lot of talk about this, but seen no evidence for it.

    What I think is really going on is that men refuse to settle, hoping they can do better if they wait. Then, women who are left as spinsters decide they need to plan on making it by themselves and get the blame for being “careerist.”

    Being a woman, I’m not a math whiz, but I do know that it is mathematically impossible for more than half the men to get an above-average wife.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/237739/less-men-forces-women-to-choose-their-careers-over-marriage-study/

    • LOL: Autochthon
  444. Rosie says:
    @Jack D

    These girls can all hear the “ka-ching” of the cash register

    It takes one to know one, I guess.

  445. Charon says:
    @Jack D

    For example, in post-war Germany, getting raped by Russian soldiers was a more or less daily occurrence for German women. They would brush it off and go on with their lives. Nothing was permanently “ruined”.

    Wow, that’s breathtaking. Why can’t these teenage shiksas be more like the (incidentally unpaid) Nazi whores we all lust after? And just “brush it off” and stop complaining?

  446. nebulafox says:
    @Rosie

    >I’ve heard a lot of talk about this, but seen no evidence for it.

    Then you haven’t been dating in the 21st Century, especially online.

    >What I think is really going on is that men refuse to settle, hoping they can do better if they wait. Then, women who are left as spinsters decide they need to plan on making it by themselves and get the blame for being “careerist.”

    A lot of men don’t have anyone to settle for in the first place through their 20s.

    >Being a woman, I’m not a math whiz, but I do know that it is mathematically impossible for more than half the men to get an above-average wife.

    Oh, hush. The person who taught me how to install the Linux OS that I’m using now was a woman, as was my undergrad theoretical physics advisors. I’m on record as saying that it’d be wonderful if we have more women in STEM, not least because it’d make all our dating lives so much more pleasant, even if we’re never going to achieve a 50/50 ratio for reasons other than a grand sexist conspiracy.

    What I do know is this: men aren’t the ones who judge 80% of their women counterparts as below average. It’s human nature to not be realistic about where one honestly stands in the sexual market, human nature that has been exacerbated by thes simultaneous overwhelming narcissism and pressure-cooker of our age. But-at least earlier in life-women have a lot more room to get away with that then men. That’s just reality.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  447. @Rosie

    What I think is really going on is that men refuse to settle, hoping they can do better if they wait. Then, women who are left as spinsters decide they need to plan on making it by themselves and get the blame for being “careerist.”

    Men will “settle” if forced to. If a girlfriend will hang around for years on end providing sex, well I’m sure you know the cow/milk analogy.

    In the Badwhite’s case, I wanted Mrs. B to move to another city with me when I took a new job. She said “I’d love to go, but I won’t go as your girlfriend”. Sometimes guys have to be pushed.

    When you hear of women in their 20’s dating guys for 5+ years, you wonder what they’re thinking and why doesn’t someone (father?) tell them to cut bait. Its not like the boyfriend needs to gather more data in order to make his decision.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Corvinus
  448. Rosie says:
    @William Badwhite

    When you hear of women in their 20’s dating guys for 5+ years, you wonder what they’re thinking and why doesn’t someone (father?) tell them to cut bait. Its not like the boyfriend needs to gather more data in order to make his decision.

    Yes, this is a very irrational behavior that is common among humans of both genders. It’s the sunk cost fallacy. The more time you waste on a man, the harder it is to accept that you have wasted your time.

    What I do know is this: men aren’t the ones who judge 80% of their women counterparts as below average.

    Well, as I’ve pointed out before, there is some evidence that men are not as generous in their contacts with women as they are with their evaluations, whereas women are more generous with their contacts than their evaluations. In other words, men say lots of women are decent-looking, but then only message the most attractive ones. Women say most men are ugly, but then go out and message them anyway. The other problem with that 20% figure is that it doesn’t take account of the fact that women don’t actually agree on who is hot and who is not, so we aren’t as competitive.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090626153511.htm

    Now, all that said, I married a man significantly older than the usual plus 2 years, but he wasn’t single because he was a playa. He was just kind of shy, and really, really, bright.

    Enter: Rosie.

  449. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @annamaria

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  450. HA says:
    @BB753

    “That doesn’t preclude a healthy, well-fed 16 year old young women from giving birth, past and present.”

    Who said it did? The person I responded made no mention to how well-fed or how developed a girl was, and instead only popped out the magic numbers 16 to 18 “from a biological perspective”. It was an early clue that what was to follow was nonsense.

    Furthermore, I got into this thread only to dispute JackD’s self-serving fact-twisting to the effect that when it comes to getting teens pregnant “everyone did it”. (I’ll leave the “and they mostly had it coming, and it’ll probably do ’em some good” portions of his case to others to pick apart), and given that Epstein wasn’t into getting anyone pregnant in the first place, this is at best a side issue. But now that we’re here, I will also say that with regard to whatever it is that makes 16 year old gypsy girls “birthworthy” or whatever, that was a nonsense argument, too. In particular, I have little respect for any claims about what the “optimal” time for a first child is if no metric for the optimality is noted. Are we talking about the health of the mother? The health of the newborn? The reproductive advantage of the male? When it comes to the biological war of the sexes, so to speak, all those factors tend to conflict with one another, and if you don’t even bother with specifics as to what is being optimized, whatever comes out will likely be garbage (and gratuitous swipes at how it is the obstetricians spreading alchemy and quack science amount to projection).

    Even if we stick just to a “biologal perspective”, and focus on the mother, it’s not only about what state her ovaries are in that determines optimal times for motherhood. It’s also about bone growth in the pelvic region, how developed or compromised her immune system might be, and shockingly enough, the development of her brain as well, among other things. Even those do not magically sync up from 16 to 18 — that’s not how evolution works. And with regard to her brain maturity, to the extent that a woman isn’t mature enough to pick a mate who can’t be depended upon to take responsibility for any offspring — leaving the rest of us to hold the bag — she’s far too young, no matter how “well-fed” she may be, and based on the track record of the fathers that 16 year old girls tend to choose these days, they’re clearly too young. If we were talking about heifers, it’d be different, and maybe that’s what causing the disconnect, because based on the terms being laid out, that’s what some of you seem to be talking about.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @nebulafox
    , @BB753
  451. HA says:
    @Sean

    “That sounds like something that a woman of that age would have reported if true, and was more like a threesome going by her not making a criminal complaint.

    She might have reported it if she wasn’t also taking advantage of the pills and other candies being offered at the time. As it is, I’m not sure why anyone would expect her to run to the cops. Prostitutes frequently get subjected to violence they didn’t agree to beforehand (someone can correct me if I’m wrong about that), but they don’t run to the cops, either.

    As long as we’re being conspiratorial, the easiest way to quash this case (now that Epstein is already a registered sex offender) might well be to hire a ringer to tell some ridiculous story that could be torn apart during trial proceedings, thereby casting doubt on the real allegations. I’m not saying that’s likely, but I’m not putting it past someone like him. That being said, I really don’t find the fact that she didn’t report anything to be that suspicious.

    • Replies: @Sean
  452. Bkranky says:
    @BB753

    Yes it’s truly baffling. It’s filled with incredible paradoxes and contradictions. Taking aside why this is happening now. The 2 potential outcomes for this don’t make sense for the elites. He can’t get another slap on the wrist as the case is too high profile. On the other hand if he is handed an appropriate sentence he will spend the rest of his rotten life in jail. At that point with nothing left to loose he could potentially rat out some of his degenerate associates/clients. These are some of the richest and most powerful people in the world and they will stop at nothing to stay that way. Who wins here other than his victims ? I think the machinations of this go far beyond simple justice

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  453. @Jack D

    I just caught that I read “I would guess that the gay priests had more victims per priest than the straight ones so that the % of abusers who were straight was higher than the 19% indicated by the % of victims” backwards and that we are in agreement that the homosexual priests likely had more victims per priest than the straight ones.

  454. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    Does your teen pregnancy study control for socioeconomic status and race? Those seem like possible confounding factors.

    • Replies: @HA
  455. Corvinus says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “The difference between stupid and intelligent people–and this is true whether or not they are well-educated–is that intelligent people can handle subtlety. They are not baffled by ambiguous or even contradictory situations–in fact, they expect them and are apt to become suspicious when things seem overly straightforward”.

    This statement neglects to take into account confirmation bias.

    https://www.globalcognition.org/intelligence-and-cognitive-bias/

  456. Corvinus says:
    @William Badwhite

    “When you hear of women in their 20’s dating guys for 5+ years, you wonder what they’re thinking and why doesn’t someone (father?) tell them to cut bait. Its not like the boyfriend needs to gather more data in order to make his decision.”

    You are not taking into account that they may have had conversations about under what circumstances they plan to marry. Maybe they have college debt, or are continuing their education, or are at different places emotionally but are still committed to one another, or enjoy what their relationship and will end up getting hitched and are not in a hurry.

    It’s really up to the couple to decide. And, sometimes guys and girls simply want to wait, that they have all of the information they need, so why rush it.

  457. Corvinus says:
    @nebulafox

    “What I do know is this: men aren’t the ones who judge 80% of their women counterparts as below average.”

    So where exactly did you get this percentage from? See, it sounds made up. Any sources or studies to back up your claim?

    “But-at least earlier in life-women have a lot more room to get away with that then men. That’s just reality.”

    No, that’s just your opinion.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  458. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “It is a societal problem, and one, incidentally, that may be best addressed by women’s wittholding sex until marriage.”

    You mean if men AND women with holding sex until marriage, or men refraining from falling prey to their rutting instinct and simply say “No” if and when the woman seeks intercourse. Would not that demonstrate to her that (alpha) men lead and women follow?

  459. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Does your teen pregnancy study control for socioeconomic status and race?”

    I strongly suspect it’s intersectional, in the sense that allowing 16 year old women to choose baby daddies based on whatever they’re most attracted to at the time is a good way to create a black hole of poverty and dysfunction in just a few generations. I suspect numerous readers here can find examples of that happening. And when I say “black hole”, I don’t mean to imply that whites are exempt — I’m guessing the child of Brandiee and Kayden is going to have some half-siblings down the road, regardless of how fetching their matching tats look today.

    So again, it’s not just about the ovaries.

    Ann Coulter makes a lot of hay (and gets a lot feminist pushback) of the factoid that “the single strongest predictor of whether a person will end up in prison is being raised by a single mother.”

    To wit,

    https://ifstudies.org/blog/want-to-avoid-divorce-wait-to-get-married-but-not-too-long/

  460. Corvinus says:
    @Jack D

    “For example, in post-war Germany, getting raped by Russian soldiers was a more or less daily occurrence for German women. They would brush it off and go on with their lives. Nothing was permanently “ruined”.”

    What is it here with the alleged lawyers on this fine blog and their “logic”?

    First, how do you specifically know German women would “brush off” getting repeatedly taken by force by Russian (or American) soldiers? What evidence are you able to marshall to support your claim?

    Second, such a traumatic experience, for a number of women, would indeed damage her beyond repair. An marked inability to trust men or get emotionally close to them are two examples of how a woman’s life would be significantly impacted.

  461. nebulafox says:
    @Corvinus

    It’s rude to stalk people, you know. Not everybody is as flattered by your attention as Vox Day is.

    > See, it sounds made up. Any sources or studies to back up your claim?

    Google it. I won’t do it for you.

    >No, that’s just your opinion.

    Go ask your typical 20-something man and your typical 20-something woman of their experience using Tinder or OKCupid.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  462. nebulafox says:
    @HA

    I mean, I don’t think it really is a big ask to ensure your sexual conquests are at the age where they can legally give consent-the limit has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise, pedophiles, homosexual and heterosexual alike, will get ideas-so I can’t claim I have a great deal of sympathy for Epstein. Put your penis in your pants, dude, it’s not like you don’t have other, legally non-dubious choices a few years older than that.

    But with that being said, around 16-17, you got to start making your own choices in life: and a lot of women, like men, are already sexually active by this age. That’s why you’ve really got to hammer the birth control aspect of this home. Most teenagers are immature mentally: few are biologically. Make sure they avoid the big uh-ohs of pregnancy and disease, and the other, more emotional things… well, people usually have to learn these things the hard way.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @HA
  463. Anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    and the other, more emotional things… well, people usually have to learn these things the hard way.

    What sorts of things are those?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    , @nebulafox
  464. @Anonymous

    It is extremely rare and difficult for people to truly engage in sex without psychological and emotional ramifications; those (especially women) who can – or, more accurately, think they can – almost always have an underlying dysfunction they are not aware of, such that the same problems – indeed, worse problems – are occurring for them, but without their awareness.

    There’s much more to be said on the topic, of course, but that’s the short, short version.

  465. nebulafox says:
    @Anonymous

    Off the top of my head:

    Don’t exchange your genetic material with someone crazy or evil, no matter how tempting it is. The orgasm isn’t worth it.

    Alcohol has a way of making you do crap you’d never consider otherwise.

    Sex with someone you deeply care about is seriously different in quality and feeling: and how awful it is when your partner doesn’t feel as deeply, or vice versa.

    The gap between popular media and reality.

    The fact that people have sexual interests that you yourself will find absolutely bizarre. Unless they take it public or do it with somebody that won’t or can’t give consent, you have to make your peace with that.

    The profound political incorrectness of human sexuality.

    How much you learn about someone when they are naked with you that you don’t wish to know.

    How much about yourself that you’d rather ignore that you’ll forcibly learn: even if you don’t admit it to yourself.

    Probably a lot more I could think of if I wasn’t halfway to hammered right now.

    I’ll close off my career here with the following. Life is so absolutely beautiful. I only wish it didn’t take me so long to realize it.

  466. Sean says:
    @HA

    Prostitutes frequently get subjected to violence they didn’t agree to beforehand (someone can correct me if I’m wrong about that), but they don’t run to the cops, either.

    I think there are very few men as rich as young as him who have never employed attractive women and had sex with them. Irrespective of their occupation, few women have never encountered sexual harassment at work. Anyway, the woman was 27, he is accused of traficking under age girls, yet there are no clients apart from him that have been mentioned in the charges. He was not any kind of pimp.

    As long as we’re being conspiratorial, the easiest way to quash this case

    The reason the deal came back to bite Epstein is because Trump ran for president, and Epstein was a way to get at Trump as what a woman sued Trump in 2016 accusing him of raping her at one of Epstein’s parties when she was 13. Dershowitz and Acosta are also involved so the case can be used to discredit Trump one way or the other.

    Epstein is already a registered sex offender

    Exactly. He will plead not guilty, but no court will believe his denials, and like others accused of trafficking he will spend the rest of his life in prison. But for all you will be reading in the media, and the bandwagoning new people coming forward, the prosecution do not have a leg to stand on with Maxwell.

  467. Corvinus says:
    @nebulafox

    “It’s rude to stalk people, you know. Not everybody is as flattered by your attention as Vox Day is.”

    LOL, keeping commenters honest here is not stalking. You have an odd way of looking at discourse.

    Again, I ask, so where exactly did you get this percentage from? See, it sounds made up. Any sources or studies to back up your claim? You seem so supremely confident, like a secret king.

    “Go ask your typical 20-something man and your typical 20-something woman of their experience using Tinder or OKCupid.”

    I have, and it’s not what you think it is.

    • Replies: @Anon
  468. Mr. Anon says:

    He put a stop to that by showing these celebrities she claims to have met at Epstein’s could not have been there,

    How did he show that?

    Clinton has secret service protection and their records ect.

    Has anyone seen the secret service records? Pilot logs show Clinton flying on Epstein’s jet 26 times, I believe, including sometimes without secret service agents accompanying. Anyway, it’s not as if the fact that the secret service was there would stop Bill Clinton from a hook-up. The secret service was with him in the White House while he was canoodling with Monica Lewinsky.

    And why exactly Dershowitz negotiate an NPA that applied to any, as yet undiscovered co-conspirators in any subsequently discovered crimes? Is that customary for a defence attorney to do?

    • Replies: @Sean
  469. Mr. Anon says:
    @Bkranky

    On the other hand if he is handed an appropriate sentence he will spend the rest of his rotten life in jail. At that point with nothing left to loose he could potentially rat out some of his degenerate associates/clients. These are some of the richest and most powerful people in the world and they will stop at nothing to stay that way.

    A lot of things happen in prisons………..murders, suicides, assaults that can leave one crippled (and mute).

    • Agree: BB753
  470. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anonymous

    Would he make those same arguments if the discussion concerned jewish girls being sexually exploited by rich gentiles?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  471. HA says:
    @nebulafox

    “But with that being said, around 16-17, you got to start making your own choices in life: and a lot of women, like men, are already sexually active by this age.”

    Undoubtedly this is part of what makes prosecuting these claims difficult (and why a lot of attention will be paid to the victims who were younger than 16). I’m not denying many of these girls were messed up long before they met Epstein, else they would have declined his offers, and that pre-existing damage may actually be more responsible for any of the subsequent dysfunction in their lives. But the court system tends to target those with deeper pockets when damages are to be paid, and Epstein knows that and should have used that knowledge to counteract any cheap and gratuitous rationalizations he might have spun about how, well, the girls were already damaged, so no biggie.

    Plus, I’m guessing that a “hey, she just would have put out for someone else” defense is probably not going to play well with the jurors any more than Jack D tortuous extenuations, but maybe I’m giving the average jury too much credit.

  472. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anonymous

    For that matter, what is the difference between a younger woman being a plaything and an older woman being one?

    Is there any normal human instinct that is not completely foreign to homo libertarianensis?

  473. Anonymous[281] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Would he make those same arguments if the discussion concerned jewish girls being sexually exploited by rich gentiles?

    Maybe not. Ask him.

    But your comment is just more ad hominem.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  474. BB753 says:
    @HA

    In the past, marriages were arranged. Ensuring 16 year old girls didn’t marry a ne’er-do-well. It’s one the great mistakes of our era to allow women to choose their mates. Daddy (and mommy) knows best.
    If you let them choose, 90% of the time they’ll pick up cads, particularly if they’re young.
    As for gypsies, male and female, they tipically marry around 12-14 years old, and the young women start popping out babies at 14-15, ensuring they end-up with 8 kids at 28 years old. Needless to say, gypsy women look middle-aged at 30. Some groups mature earlier and reach menopause earlier.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @HA
    , @Jonathan Mason
  475. Rosie says:
    @BB753

    It’s one the great mistakes of our era to allow women to choose their mates.

    Go to hell.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/baad-afghanistan_b_1283836

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @BB753
    , @Anonymous
    , @Hunsdon
  476. Rosie says:
    @Rosie

    I have a bad habit of attempting rational debate with people who have declared war on me. At the risk of doing so here, I will ask the following:

    If women are so terrible at choosing marriage partners, why is it that married men make more money than everyone else?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/married-men-are-earning-much-more-money-than-everyone-else-in-america.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  477. HA says:
    @BB753

    “In the past, marriages were arranged. Ensuring 16 year old girls didn’t marry a ne’er-do-well.”

    As I’ve already indicated, the archeological evidence and parish birth/marriage records (which you seem strangely reluctant to even acknowledge, in preference of you “thoughts” on the matter) indicated that whoever was responsible for arranging the marriage didn’t just concern themselves with making sure the groom wasn’t a ne’er-do-well. They also worked to ensure that the bride waited till an appropriate time to be married, and that appropriate time was not 16, to the extent that those exceptions who did marry then were — just like those whose parents allowed them to marry thugs and bad boys — regarded as lowlife backwoods country trash.

    Go ahead and keep trying to rationalize your jail-bait porn preferences and Jimmy-Page-can-do-no-wrong precepts by appealing to biology, but at least get it right and acknowledge the fact that there are also biological reasons for pushing the marriage up beyond 16, and any optimal marriage age will duly reflect those upwards pressures as well, as opposed to letting some creepy ovary-obsession rule the day. Moreover, in those countries that tended to do well with regard to being civilized, so to speak, it was those push-the-age-up pressures that prevailed, whereas those pockets where 16 year old child brides and shotgun weddings were more common tended to also be hotbeds of socioeconomic dysfunction. That isn’t just some curious coincidence. Yes, of course, those upward pressures can be dysfunctional, too, as the rich couple in the beginning of Idiocracy demonstrates, but you’re advocating for an equally ridiculous extreme.

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Rosie
    , @Anonymous
  478. BB753 says:
    @HA

    I’m not saying that women having kids at 16 is optimal, which is probably nearer to 18 in factuality.
    What I meant is that we should stop treating 16 year olds as children, which they’re not. It’s ridiculous.

  479. BB753 says:
    @Rosie

    Thanks, I already live in hell. You call it the progressive and feminist XXIst century.

  480. @BB753

    If you let them choose, 90% of the time they’ll pick up cads, particularly if they’re young.

    Jane Austen was of the same opinion and shows how the flighty Lydia brings disgrace upon her whole family, affecting the prospects of her sisters, when she runs elopes with Mr. Wickham. The situation is eventually resolved by White Knight Mr. Darcy who pays off Wickham and gets him to marry the girl and bring her back into the realm of respectability.

    Noteworthy is that Wickham had previously tried to have Darcy’s 15-year-old sister Georgiana elope with him–motivated by her large dowry and foolishness–but Darcy had nipped that one in the bud.

    Elizabeth (Austen’s alter-ego) eventually marries Darcy, but has a hard time convincing her father that it is for love, considering that Darcy is a billionaire.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/caroline-aherne-dead-mrs-merton-debbie-mcgee-what-attracted-you-to-millionaire-paul-daniels-a7115801.html

    We ignore the classics at our peril.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  481. Rosie says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Jane Austen was of the same opinion and shows how the flighty Lydia brings disgrace upon her whole family, affecting the prospects of her sisters, when she runs elopes with Mr. Wickham.

    And yet Harriet showed very good judgment (so much for hypergamy!); only Emma’s foolish meddling almost cost her dearly.

    Idiot Jonathan Mason: A fifteen year old should be able to prostitute herself but not run off with her lover!

  482. Rosie says:
    @HA

    Go ahead and keep trying to rationalize your jail-bait porn preferences

    There’s something you must understand. There are certain men around these parts who want to turn to dissident right into a men’s advocacy outfit. Like their feminist counterparts, they’re not known for intellectual honesty but rather for motivated reasoning and sophistry.

  483. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    Moreover, in those countries that tended to do well with regard to being civilized, so to speak, it was those push-the-age-up pressures that prevailed,

    How are those “civilized” nations doing at sustaining themselves, reproducing themselves?

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @HA
  484. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    It’s one the great mistakes of our era to allow women to choose their mates.

    Go to hell.

    What do you think enforced monogamy is? It is there to restrict women’s choice.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Hunsdon
  485. Sean says:
    @Mr. Anon

    And why exactly Dershowitz negotiate an NPA that applied to any, as yet undiscovered co-conspirators in any subsequently discovered crimes? Is that customary for a defence attorney to do?

    It is customary for a first class attorney to try and do what his client asks for, especially when it also makes good legal sense. There is no mystery, Ghislaine Maxwell would be one alleged co conspirator, and I would assume that Epstein would want to get her immunity because he cares about her, moreover she is not legally his wife so could be called to as a witness against him. The under 16 girls were recruited by other teen girls especially a certain Ms Roberts I think. She popped back up a decade later with sensational allegations

    The accuser of Dershowitz is Roberts, who is being represented for free by David Boies, the same top lawyer who while representing Weinstein sicced the Mossad Squad (Black Cube) onto Weinstein’s victims/ accusers. Boises also represented Thanos/ Elizabeth Holmes, and is strongly liberal-identified, and is a long time rival of Dershowitz.

    Roberts originally said she was 15 and working as a spa attendant at Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s Palm Beach resort, when Epstein’s factotum Ghislaine Maxwell offered her a job with Epstein. She was 16 when she began working at Mar-a-Lago as she now admits. I don’t see how anyone could honestly make a mistake like that. Roberts was a masseuse and providing sexual services for Epstein from the age of 17 to 19 and he sent her on a trip to Thailand to learn massage she ‘escaped’ as she put it.

    Roberts was one of those Epstein paid restitution totalling tens of millions to. Dozens of victims were identified by the FBI and the comperationamounted to tens of millions.The FBI got the case because the local police chief protested about the state only having charged Epstein with one count, and then the FBI investigated and there was a plea deal with Federal authorities.

    In an affidavit for the case brought in 2015 by some of the victims against the plea agreement on the grounds it was kept secret, Roberts said she was told to have sex with Dershowitz and the billionaire Wexner. It was this affidavit, a decade later, and not any police or FBI investigation at the time, that turned up Dershowitz’s name as having had sex with under age girls.

    I really don’t see how Dershowitz would be protected from being charged with the offence of having sex with an underage girl by the 2005 plea agreement giving immunity to co conspirators of Epstein in the single charge he pled guilty to of soliciting prostitution from an underage girl. That would be two different cases. Epstein’s so called sex-trafficking operation amounts to him paying under age girls for sex acts. He also had sex with women who were his employees. Rich men bang the help, who knew?

  486. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anonymous

    Maybe not. Ask him.

    Sure, and I could expect a straightforward, honest answer, right? Because people are always upfront about their ethnic biases.

    But your comment is just more ad hominem.

    No, it is not ad hominem. It is an observation based on what he has written over the years. He routinely downplays misbehavior by members of his group, to the extent that appears to be an attempt to excuse it. It’s done subtly – not a big, bold “he dindu nuffin” kind of defence – but that’s what you’d expect from a smart guy, which he clearly is.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  487. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    What do you think enforced monogamy is? It is there to restrict women’s choice.

    No, it isn’t. It’s there to rein in greedy men who otherwise monopolize all the resources to lock out their competitors, but go ahead and tell yourself that if you like.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  488. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    How are those “civilized” nations doing at sustaining themselves, reproducing themselves?

    The reproductive success of uncivilized peoples is totally unnatural. It is the artificial product of parasitism on the West.

  489. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    No, it is not ad hominem. It is an observation based on what he has written over the years. He routinely downplays misbehavior by members of his group, to the extent that appears to be an attempt to excuse it.

    Someone wrote above that JackD has maintained a fairly consistent position over time with respect to accusations of a sexual nature, whether they might be levied against Jews or against Gentiles.

    • Replies: @HA
    , @JMcG
  490. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    No, it isn’t. It’s there to rein in greedy men who otherwise monopolize all the resources to lock out their competitors, but go ahead and tell yourself that if you like.

    It prevents all women from taking up only with men who command power and/or resources. It therefore acts as a barrier to women’s choice.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  491. HA says:

    “I’m not saying that women having kids at 16 is optimal,…”

    Fine, but the other commenter I originally objected to did: “Optimum biological age for first birth is around 16.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  492. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “How are those “civilized” nations doing at sustaining themselves, reproducing themselves?”

    The pressure to delay childbirth until a woman and the partner she chooses (or is chosen for her) are able to actually raise a family — i.e. well after the age of 16 — has been in evidence at least since medieval times (and probably well earlier) as my original link noted.

    Despite that, and despite the fact that 25% of women back then died at childbirth over the course of a lifetime, the nations in question actually did a pretty good job of sustaining themselves for centuries beyond that (in fact, they sometimes overdid it). So don’t pretend that plummeting fertility rates has anything to do with acknowledging that pregnant 16-year-olds are generally a lousy idea.

    Moreover, there are plenty of subcultures in the West where 16 year olds having babies are becoming more and more common (some of them in countries that are doing a pretty terrible job at replacing themselves) and they’re no cause for celebration. So your gotcha attempt is a multi-fail. Sure, I can find some exceptions, but I can also find plenty of 30 year old women who manage to produce 3 kids; I doubt you’d find that worth cheering, so why pretend it’s any better on the other extreme where “women” in their mid-teens are getting pregnant?

  493. Hunsdon says:
    @Rosie

    Rosie, having once been a young man myself, I can see some Merit to rephrasing the argument as one should not allow young men or women to choose their own mates themselves. Would that make a difference?

    • Replies: @Rosie
  494. Hunsdon says:
    @Anonymous

    Surely you do not mean the only woman’s choice?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  495. Rosie says:
    @Hunsdon

    Would that make a difference?

    Only a little bit. There is no need for a solution unless you have a problem.

    If there were any evidence to the effect that divorce is caused by people making bad choices of partner, I suppose that would be worth looking at, but I haven’t seen any.

    Moreover, if a significant number of young people are unsuitable for marriage, the question must be how to make them suitable, i.e. how to prepare them.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  496. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hunsdon

    Surely you do not mean the only woman’s choice?

    Women do the selecting. If you impose barriers to what can be selected, you are restricting their choice.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  497. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    Women do the selecting.

    Lol how asinine!

    What are we talking about here, one-night stands or marriage?

  498. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    It prevents all women from taking up only with men who command power and/or resources. It therefore acts as a barrier to women’s choice.

    You’re a moron. Women have never wanted to “take up only with men who command power and/or resources.”

    They have been forced into harems in the past because of extreme wealth concentration and/or your sex’s nasty habit of killing off your rivals.

    https://www.livescience.com/62754-warring-clans-caused-population-bottleneck.html

    We know exactly who needs to be controlled, and it’s not us. In the dissident right, there’s not a single problem in the world that can’t be solved with a reactionary crackdown on women. Well, f*** you. We’re not taking the blame.

    I hate to be nasty, but I didn’t start this shit.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Anonymous
  499. Rosie says:
    @Rosie

    And…the more things change, the more they stay the same.

  500. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    You’re a moron. Women have never wanted to “take up only with men who command power and/or resources.”

    Are you contending that women do not find power, wealth, celebrity attractive?

    • Replies: @Rosie
  501. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    Are you contending that women do not find power, wealth, celebrity attractive?

    You are a nasty, deceitful little troll, and I’m certain you’re getting paid to come here and stir up trouble between White men and women.

    As you well know, women want their own husbands. They’re not going to share just to get a better catch. Now, f*** off.

  502. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Someone wrote above that JackD has maintained a fairly consistent position over time…”

    The fact that a position is consistent doesn’t mean it isn’t sleazy and overall self-serving. It just means it isn’t also hypocritical. Two out of three is still pretty awful.

    If I were a Catholic ecclesiastical bureaucrat who thinks teenagers who have sex with priests are usually “asking for it”, and therefore pretty much deserve whatever they get (and though rarer than commonly assumed, I can provide what I suspect are some specific real-life examples of such) it would be admirably consistent of me to adopt the same “principles” in those instances where public school teachers are the ones having sex with students, but that’s still far from admirable. In fact, it’s dank and scummy.

    If “lack of hypocrisy” is the best thing you can say about a position, you’re setting that bar way too low.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  503. Dale says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Evidence?

    Prosecutors say Trump is the ONLY person in the “Black Book” who voluntarily spoke with them for several hours.

    I loathe Trump but this is a smear with no evidence.

  504. Dale says:
    @Anonymous

    Exposing all the Republicans involved for allowing him to take down Bill Clinton.

    He expected Bill to protect him. He will turn over blackmail level evidence since he knows his life is over if he doesn’t, and might be over even if he does.

    I hope he exposes dozens of high ranking politicians and bureaucrats and destroys them. They deserve it.

  505. Dale says:
    @Andy

    Zambia and Botswana are neighbors BUT NOT THE SAME!

    Zambia is really Wakanda.

  506. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    I don’t think Jack D is being particularly self-serving, in the sense of trying to justify renting a 14-year-old prostitute over the weekend or anything. “Ethnically conscious” maybe.

    According to Jack, Epstein would be a lion that circles a herd of wildebeest and picks off the most vulnerable. Not sure what if anything this has to do with pregnancy, or other topics on this thread.

    • Replies: @HA
  507. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    What is optimum biologically is not what is optimum in other respects, so no, I don’t recommend having kids at 16. That doen’t change the biological facts.

    I mean, how many of us eat a biologically optimum diet or work biologically optimum work hours?

    • Replies: @HA
    , @Anonymous
  508. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    Virtually no Catholic priests ever had heterosexual relationships with teenagers. They either stuck to their vows, or if they strayed it was with married women who if they got them pregnant simply acted like it was their husband’s. Occasionally there were rumors of priests carrying on with post-menopausal nuns.

    Teenage homosexual incidents with gay priests, that is a thing, but only significantly so after Vatican II. Before that the seminaries actually did a fairly good job of weeding gay postulants out.

  509. HA says:
    @Anon

    “I don’t think Jack D is being particularly self-serving…

    You can think what you want, but his repeated insinuations and declarations that the peons at the bottom of the pecking order (i.e., “local drunken peasantry”) are simply resentful and jealous of those who lord their power and prestige over them, when they really should be grateful (a view evidenced again in this thread), just so conveniently happens works to the favor of some ethnic groups over others (and one ethnic group in particular — at least with respect to actual peasants, and the those who were disproportionately hired to farm taxes from and manage them and given free rein to exploit them).

    I realize that not all Jews are of the opinion that the poor, dumb, and vulnerable basically exist to be pushed around by others and shouldn’t expect any different, but the minority that do hold those views really stink up things for the rest. Jack D wants us to believe that people like him are hated because they’re held up as “killers of Jesus” or they’re believed to have horns on their heads but that’s just another very self-serving blind spot/deflection on his part. (And yes, I realize there are plenty of gentiles who feel the same way about the peons beneath them, but I don’t much like them, either.)

    • Replies: @Anon
  510. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “What is optimum biologically is not what is optimum in other respects,…”

    How often do I have to repeat the fact that these “other respects” you lump together are also biological? It’s not just a woman’s ovaries that are biological while everything about her (and her partner) that needs to develop in order to successfully birth and raise a child isn’t.

    “so no, I don’t recommend having kids at 16.”

    Again, your exact words were “Optimum biological age for first birth is around 16.” If that’s not a recommendation, you need a different way of expressing yourself.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  511. HA says:

    “Virtually no Catholic priests ever had heterosexual relationships with teenagers.”

    According to the John Jay report (see p. 54), the number of heterosexual “relationships” (i.e., cases of abuse) with 15-17 year-olds was roughly 1/5 the number of homosexual relationships in the same age range, depending on the decade (actually, the fraction was larger in earlier decades). One-fifth is definitely smaller than one, but not virtually nonexistent.

    As to what happened in earlier decades, it’s hard to say. The abuse may have been less prevalent, but maybe it was just less likely to be reported. (Note that from the 50’s till about the 70’s, psychologists assured us that “A sexual episode would cause little harm to a child, provided the police or courts did not ‘make an issue’ of it…” so not all the hushing up can be blamed on the church alone.) In any case, the infamous McCarrick was ordained by Spellman, who was around well before Vatican II.

  512. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    Well, what I was trying to get at was the difference between serving oneself per se and one’s ethnicity, but it is an interesting question to what extent investing in a powerful ethnic mythos influences one’s own life. Certainly it pushes one’s thoughts on certain topics far out on a limb.

    • Replies: @HA
  513. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    What is optimum biologically is not what is optimum in other respects, so no, I don’t recommend having kids at 16. That doen’t change the biological facts.

    Kids at 16 versus kids at 36?
    Kids at 16 versus kids at 46?

    • Replies: @HA
  514. JMcG says:
    @Anonymous

    Well, as long as the women involved are Gentiles.

  515. JMcG says:
    @Rosie

    Your last sentence is the solution. But how do we re-civilize our society?

  516. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    I have, and it’s not what you think it is.

    Please elaborate.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  517. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Kids at 16 versus kids at 36?
    Kids at 16 versus kids at 46?”

    Are those the only three ages to choose from? Really? If the only way to try and salvage your argument is to push it into some bizarro world, you’ve lost.

  518. HA says:
    @Anon

    “Well, what I was trying to get at was the difference between serving oneself per se and one’s ethnicity,…”

    Actually, it’s a certain jerk-faction in his ethnicity that he’s serving while serving himself, WHILE ALSO being unable to even contemplate the notion that said jerks have caused a whole lot of problems for his ethnicity. Yeah, sure, it must be the devil-horns that people imagine to be on their heads that are causing all that resentment — along with all that Christ-killing that supposedly every Jew is supposedly responsible for and an abiding devotion to Adolf Hitler — that’s the only possible explanation./s

    Again, no one’s claiming that gentiles don’t have plenty of those same jerks in their camps, but I am free to denounce any such jerks without being called a hateful bigot trafficking in collective guilt — in fact, I am ENCOURAGED to denounce ALL white people on the basis of what these jerks have done (with the exception of a certain ethnic group among them, of course) by the very wannabe social-justice-warriors who pretend to be against collective guilt and hateful bigotry.

    In other words, just because he’s not hypocritical when he stands up for those “picking off the most vulnerable” and says, hey, it’s all just circle-of-life, or whatever, that doesn’t mean there isn’t a whole lot of hypocrisy involved in how all that plays out.

  519. Anonymous[171] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    He put it crudely, but the notion that children should respect the views of their parents, and not marry people they consider unsuitable, used to be uncontroversial and mainstream not so long ago. Is this really oppression?

  520. @Hockamaw

    I just did and it was mostly pictures of Epstein and Clinton. There were a few of Trump.

    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1360&bih=625&ei=9CkrXejUO7Kw0PEPvtW_OA&q=epstein+clinton&oq=epstein+cl&gs_l=img.1.0.0l10.3066.5891..8767…0.0..0.158.1515.0j11……0….1..gws-wiz-img…..0.nAMDtErogjc

    Could they have realized this was too much and changed it?

  521. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Whom have you asked, and what in your opinion makes them typical of typical 20-30-year-olds?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  522. Hunsdon says:
    @HA

    Perhaps biological age should have been presented in bold format?

    • Replies: @HA
  523. HA says:
    @Hunsdon

    “Perhaps biological age should have been presented in bold format?”

    Still a meaningless concept unless you reduce a woman to just her ovaries (however much that seems to be the default assumption for some people here) and unless you actually give some indication as to what specific biological factors are being optimzed. The 16-year-old women who are more likely to die in childbirth or have complications, or who give birth to underweight and underveloped and lower-IQ and otherwise damaged babies, may well have peak-performance ovaries relative to the rest of their lives. But that doesn’t mean the rest of them was ready. Evolution doesn’t sync us up like that.

  524. Corvinus says:
    @Anon

    As far asking, I have repeated, daily interactions with that age group, men and women. They are typical in that their responses generally match the results from the source I provided.

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