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Is Trump a Strong Debater?
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I hear a lot about how Trump will crush Hillary in their debates. But is there much evidence that Trump is a strong debater? He mostly seemed to scrape by in the GOP debates, and then flourish the rest of the week when he was alone on stage or in interviews.

Trump’s kind of thinking-out-loud isn’t well-suited to debates. A lot of people like how Trump takes them through his thought processes. It’s kind of a democratic way of leading — the campaign staff doesn’t have his researchers feed focus groups findings to his speechwriters. Instead, he just gets up there and starts talking about what’s on people’s minds — for example, note Trump thinking out loud, and pretty successfully, about that poor gorilla. And the audience can hear him trying out ideas and work his way through them in real time.

But all that requires a leisurely pace, which is not found in Presidential debates.

 
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  1. Don’t go wobbly Steve.

    Trump has won every battle to this point, so lets remain optimistic. He doesn’t even need to win on the debates, he just needs to have Hilary look old and tired onstage and have America listen to her shrill Midwest nasal dental drill of a voice.

    I think all the debates, campaign stops, TV ads etc. are irrelevant at this point. Everyone on our side had seen what the establishment has in store for us if they win. This election is really about these issues, not the frippery surrounding it.

    • Replies: @boogerbently
    Will he win a debate ?
    Boy, and how.
    He will win like nobodys business.
    He will win SOOO YUGE.
    Conservatives don't win anymore, but he is going to win like SO big.
    We are going to win again.
    , @Glossy
    I think all the debates, campaign stops, TV ads etc. are irrelevant at this point.

    There's a media campaign to portray Trump as the hawk and Hillary as the dove. A person not paying attention might think it's TRUMP who'll try to start WWIII or repeat the Iraq Attaq. People have to be told who is really who on this. Trump could make ads with interviews with maimed soldiers who support him. Make it emotional. Message: she's a killer.

    Dems aren't denying that Trump wants to build a wall, but they ARE denying that he's the peace candidate in the race. He needs to educate low-info voters on that, preferably with ads.

  2. I think that you are asking this question from your own perspective, Steve, as a former debater. How the average American swing voter views who won a so-called debate is a very different thing from how someone like you would judge it, according to the principles that you were trained in, back in the day. I believe that the unwashed masses, on the Internet, viewed Trump to have won almost all of the Republican debates, even though journalists and political pundits almost always thought otherwise. Scott Adams, the “Dilbert” creator and persuasion expert, believes that Trump has been playing on a whole different level from all of his competitors.

    • Replies: @Economic Sophisms
    You are right DK. On logical terms, Cruz won a few of the debates. But Trump won on rhetoric, Trump won with the IQ 95-105 hordes. He's willfully simplified his message to appeal to the professional wresting and reality TV types, this is good.
  3. I was thinking exactly the same thing. My only solace here is that I’ve read that he’s spending time each day going over policy details, to an extent he previously wasn’t. Can’t find the article now.

  4. Hillary is such a terrible debater that she’s dodging debates with a freaking communist. She must be absolutely terrified of debating Trump. Romney lost to Obama because he didn’t have the guts or the conviction to call him (and Candy Crowley) on his lies. Trump has no qualms about calling out Clinton’s BS.

  5. It’s funny. All the liberals at my job think Hillary is a great debater and will demolish Trump in debates, nipping his fascist campaign for fascist walls in the fascist bud.

    I don’t have any idea how it will fall out. Certainly, presidential debates are not high quality. They are a far cry from the Oxford Union, IQ2, or such. Borderline ridiculous.

    My guess is that Trump can’t get up to speed on the issues fast enough because he isn’t interested enough. On the other hand, Clinton is likely to be unable to capitalize on this due to the fact that she’s relatively weak, interpersonally and intellectually. Her goal, whether she knows it or not, has to be to not turn off the entire electorate. So, as long as Trump can deflate/deflect the gotcha questions they will throw at him, it will be a wash.

    • Replies: @e
    Hillary has a reputation for supporting Israel. If she gives him lip about his wall, he can turn to her and simply ask, "Why would you support Israel, give them your moral and financial support through your votes as a senator, take their lobbying money as a candidate running for senator of New York, let them use that money for their defense, which includes maintaining and patrolling their wall, yet deny that same support for citizens of your own country?
  6. He wiped the floor with the Republican field at the debates. TV pundits and the new York times just kept asserting he didn’t. Well, so much the worse for punditry then.

  7. Das says:

    I think Trump has made it clear that he’s going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.

    It could work spectacularly, particularly because a lot of voters were children back in the 90s, and will be hearing all that stuff for the first time.

    It could backfire and give Clinton the sympathy vote.

    • Replies: @whorefinder

    It could backfire and give Clinton the sympathy vote.
     
    Doubtful. Hillary is really bad at being a sympathetic, woe-is-me creature. She's a ballbuster/fighter, as she proved during the Clinton Perjury. Again, she should go Margaret Thatcher and ditch this fake grandma/fake warmth/fake funny routine. She'd get more respect.

    But if she did suddenly try for sympathy, it would (1) look fake as heck; and (2) look really, really unpresidential---she'd look weak and like she can't run her home life and her marriage. Nobody wants a sad sack as president.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Whatever "sympathy vote" he loses will be more than made up for by people who appreciate him calling her on her BS.
    , @AnotherDad

    I think Trump has made it clear that he’s going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.
     
    If it's all about that--Trump loses.

    Bill Clinton isn't running. Some of this comes out as "she stuck by her cheating man". Re She's vulnerable as an enabler\enforcer on other pieces--Juanita Broaderick. But that's a tough sell.

    For Trump to win he needs to make this about immigration, or more broadly the incredibly shitty future that the establishment--people like Hillary--have in store for American citizens as they strip our citizenship of meaning.

    -- Jobs \ unemployment -- particularly hitting America's low skilled (minority)
    -- Reduced wages
    -- The coming robot revolution -- mass unemployment
    -- Skyrocketing welfare
    -- Reduced prosperity
    -- Crappier schools
    -- Bilingualism
    -- Expensive housing ... especially to find it in neighborhoods with "good schools"
    -- Section 8
    -- Bilingualism
    -- Loss of social cohesion, balkanization
    -- Terrorism
    -- Crowding sprawl traffic
    -- Environment degradation, loss of open space
    -- 500 million people around the world would like to come here.
    -- Total US population?--ask Hillary to pick a number 500,000,000? 1 billion. Where does "immigration" end? Packed in like India or China?

    What the establishment is doing to us is just ... shit! They are trashing the precious value of being an American. And Hillary is a cheerleader for it all.

    Trump has 10 or 20 good lines of attack. He needs to attack. Make it clear to people the shit Hillary is peddling. And tell folks point blank, that if elected he's going to work his ass off to put a stop to it. Make it clear American's future--and particularly their children and grandchildren's future will be much worse unless he's elected to stop it.

    Do that--Trump wins. Failure to do that--he's just some noisy ass, real estate\reality TV blowhard and Hillary is president.
  8. What I think Trump should do is resurrect Burgess Meredith, get him to play Mickey, Rocky’s trainer, and get him to train trump to switch his debating style and surprise everyone, just like when Rocky switched from Southpaw to Right-hander.

    Trump has had a load of time to get briefed on everything. I doubt he has though.

    If Trump wants to win the news coverage from a debate, actually performing as an effective debater would dominate news analysis due to the sheer surprise factor.

  9. It’s really all about the zingers and quips. Trump treated the debates as competitive roasts only there to judge who got the best zingers in- which he was totally right about. It wasn’t a traditional collegiate or H.S. debate with rules—it was more akin to that black National Debate team’s “debates.” And this will be, too.

    Trump gets that decorum and stuffy old rules are out. It’s not a win-on-points thing. Because this is a street fight. This is TV in primetime. This is his wheelhouse.

    The audience will be salivating for him to do it to Crooked Hillary—even her supporters will be hyperventilating looking for his quips. Hillary obviously thinks he will do it to her–and she’s probably ( and stupidly) either lining up her own “zingers” (which will fall flat—like Rubio’s did), or else going to play the “Trump is a mean mean bully card” (also will fail—in one of her first debates when she first ran for Senate in NY, the token Republican dude came over and got in her personal space, and her campaign said it was something about “male domination” and it fell flat as an attack).

    Look, his opening lines are potentially mic-dropping in its hilarity and its truth:

    “See this woman over here? I paid her to come to my son’s wedding. And she came. She does what her paymasters tell her. Me? I can’t be bought. I’m worth billions; she’s worth whatever access you buy with her. You can have a crooked, bought candidate, or you can have a guy who can’t be bought, and who wins. And America loves a winner.”

    BOOM.

    P.S. it’s also gonna be great when he interrupts her and talks over her. She’s got a rep as a person who gets very angry when she gets ambushed or has to go off script. She’s used to total deference from her staff. Trump is probably planning on interrupting her at key moments to set her off. She’ll either get visibly angry–at which case he’ll harp on her temperament–or do some fake laughing bit to cover her anger, which will be endlessly mocked by Trump’s guys. And if she’s drinking before the debate—as she is a rumored heavy drinker…..

    • Replies: @AP

    “See this woman over here? I paid her to come to my son’s wedding. And she came. She does what her paymasters tell her. Me? I can’t be bought. I’m worth billions; she’s worth whatever access you buy with her. You can have a crooked, bought candidate, or you can have a guy who can’t be bought, and who wins. And America loves a winner.”
     
    This sort of thing helped Trump win the Republican nomination. But once he won it, he turned around and asked for money like any other candidate.

    His excuse is that Republicans are forcing him to do it:

    http://nypost.com/2016/05/25/trump-the-rnc-is-forcing-rich-peoples-money-on-me/
    , @Anonym
    I agree... it's all about the zingers, it's all about adding to the highlight reel. Trump will at some point make her look like an idiot, an incompetent, a crook, or a combination thereof. Maybe more than once. It will get endless airplay.

    +420. Stumped.
    , @Olorin
    I am so looking forward to Hillary arguing with the first blunt, high-IQ, good-looking, white Ivy League schooled alpha man she's ever encountered on his terms, not hers.

    And on national TV.

    Still, I won't watch it. Presidential "debates" are another debased ritual of the American polity. They started dying in the fall of 1960 and never recovered. Thanks, Joe Kennedy. Hope hell is run by Roundheads.

    http://weeklyworldnews.com/opinion/ed-anger/6916/ed-anger-says-i-hate-the-irish/


    :D

    For those who didn't get your reference to the black debate team from Towson State that was declared national champions--finishing what the Big Three networks started--here youse go:

    http://downtrend.com/71superb/black-debate-team-wins-national-championship-with-gratuitous-use-of-the-n-word

  10. utu says:

    “Trump thinking out loud, and pretty successfully, about that poor gorilla”

    Pretty successfully because he was not under the stress. But he can be very easily upset. He has a very thin skin. Hillary must get him to the point where Trump will be just calling names and repeating himself.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.
    , @AnotherDad

    He has a very thin skin.
     
    Trump is definitely a BSD alpha male, but he is a very weird and sensitive one.

    One thing struck me right away--you get in a pissing match with Megan Kelly. She's nothing. Part of being a big man is having fights with other *big men*. You don't lower yourself to squabble with the riff-raff way down in the pecking order.

    And yeah, sometimes he seems hyper-sensitize to criticism. Another aspect of being a bigman ... you're big, you can just dismiss nonsense, bullshit with the wave of the hand. Call it bullcrap--"these guys are idiots and just don't know what they are talking about". And you should be able to laugh at yourself. You're big, every little attempted cut, isn't even worth your time.

  11. @utu
    "Trump thinking out loud, and pretty successfully, about that poor gorilla"

    Pretty successfully because he was not under the stress. But he can be very easily upset. He has a very thin skin. Hillary must get him to the point where Trump will be just calling names and repeating himself.

    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump’s skin.

    • Replies: @whorefinder

    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump’s skin.
     
    She had that with Obama and Bernie too, and look how those have turned out.

    Look, she's not a good campaigner at all, and debates are just part of campaigning. She's basically riding the inevitable-woman-president thing meets it's-my-turn-i've-been-around-forever, combined with obamas-third-term. That's all stale ideas at this point, as is her act.

    , @JsP
    Where have you been?

    The ENTIRE GOP had those things too. And they got thrashed.


    Hillary's a garbage candidate running a garbage campaign.


    So far her "experts" have come up with ideas like calling her opponent "poor Donald"--an idea so comically awful it beggars belief.


    You're living in some kind of weird boomer bubble where you think there are " experts " who aren't completely incompetent. They're just dumb as hell and don't know what they're talking about. It's that simple.

    Same applies to the other side--its hard to imagine a nonexpert being as wrong as people like Karl Rove and Bill kristol.


    There are no evil geniuses behind the scenes or Hillary wouldn't have been wrecked by Obama and embarrassed by Bernie Sanders of all people. they're evil alright--but calling them little Eichmanns would be an insult to the latter's intelligence.

    , @Lugash
    The only thing I'm sure Hilary has is money.

    Her time is currently being devoted to Emailgate damage control and trying to finish off the Artful Codger.

    Experts? Maybe. I'm sure Hollywood would lend some talent if asked, but does writing the script for X-Men: Revenge of the Civil War Apocalypse really give you any insight into defeating Trump? Academics are politically correct frauds as has been beaten to death on this blog. Google or Facebook big data analytics is useless in this situation.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    The same "experts" who brought us "Dangerous Donald"?
    , @NC
    Steve, you've been losing so long that you've forgotten how to win. You've got to get used to winning again.
    , @Marie
    She's also got a morally confused, devious and paranoid homosexual (David Brock), Muslim lesbian lady-in-waiting (Huma Weiner) and hordes of brainwashed feminists all across the fruited plain.
    , @Anonymous

    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump’s skin.
     
    Really? This is the insight from a former cog in the wheel of a marketing business. Trump probably laughs at this kind of peon perspective. He laughs at little men. Trump has spent his life locking horns with fellow titans and the aggressive cognitive elites of NYC. I'm sure he will do very well against Hillary. In fact, I think it'll be a live demonstration on how to systematically dismantle a political opponent.

    The late Christopher Hitchens on Hillary Clinton:

    “Everything about this campaign, and everything about this candidate, was rotten from the very start. Mrs. Clinton has the most unappetizing combination of qualities to be met in many days’ march: she is a tyrant and a bully when she can dare to be, and an ingratiating populist when that will serve. She will sometimes appear in the guise of a ‘strong woman’ and sometimes in the softer garb of a winsome and vulnerable female. She is entirely un-self-critical and quite devoid of reflective capacity, and has never found that any of her numerous misfortunes or embarrassments are her own fault, because the fault invariably lies with others. And, speaking of where things lie, she can in a close contest keep up with her husband for mendacity. Like him, she is not just a liar but a lie; a phony construct of shreds and patches and hysterical, self-pitying, demagogic improvisations.” (No One Left to Lie To, p. 123)

     

    , @Neil Templeton
    I agree. Trump is thin-skinned and somewhat mean and vindictive. The audience will likely be stacked with Hillary support and Donald hate. I also think he will be less effective debating a woman than the gang of peers and rivals he faced in the primaries. Good thing it won't be Granny Warren.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And...Trump doesn't have the same? I don't recall Hillary having thick skin either. Also, as shown by her opening "attack" ads in early May, they seemed to badly backfire. What was that now famous tweet by a liberal:

    "You know how Trump says he'll get Mexico to pay for the wall---
    --why not, he's already getting Hillary to write his campaign ads for him"
  12. @Das
    I think Trump has made it clear that he's going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.

    It could work spectacularly, particularly because a lot of voters were children back in the 90s, and will be hearing all that stuff for the first time.

    It could backfire and give Clinton the sympathy vote.

    It could backfire and give Clinton the sympathy vote.

    Doubtful. Hillary is really bad at being a sympathetic, woe-is-me creature. She’s a ballbuster/fighter, as she proved during the Clinton Perjury. Again, she should go Margaret Thatcher and ditch this fake grandma/fake warmth/fake funny routine. She’d get more respect.

    But if she did suddenly try for sympathy, it would (1) look fake as heck; and (2) look really, really unpresidential—she’d look weak and like she can’t run her home life and her marriage. Nobody wants a sad sack as president.

    • Replies: @AndrewR

    Nobody wants a sad sack as president.
     
    This may come as news to you but Bernie has tens of millions of supporters
  13. @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump’s skin.

    She had that with Obama and Bernie too, and look how those have turned out.

    Look, she’s not a good campaigner at all, and debates are just part of campaigning. She’s basically riding the inevitable-woman-president thing meets it’s-my-turn-i’ve-been-around-forever, combined with obamas-third-term. That’s all stale ideas at this point, as is her act.

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    This is "the thing," for me. A year ago, I mentioned her warmongering - passion for incessant wars in the M.E.; wanting to continue American meddling in the hopeless M.E.; the arms deal that took place in Libya for the "rebels" in Syria (who are they exactly?) - her secrecy when it comes to M.E. policy; wanting to rev-up a new Cold War with Putin; and, of course, her, constant pandering to women; all "identity" groups. I mean, she did learn her lesson with WV men & women who didn't buy her duplicity about what she will do for the middle class/working class/whatever. The millions made in speeches (Wall St. ties) just makes a mockery of her trying to relate to, what was it, "Everyday," Americans. And Bernie, bless his heart, is pulling off all the Scooby Doo masks of every Dem in the country! Now, that has been entertaining...Dems are such a humorless, supercilious bunch.

    And, it is probably silly of me, but it still irritates me that Bill, the narcissist, thought he could just boff a young intern in the fracking Oval Office! It just annoys me to no end that H allowed her husband to cheat multiple times, defended his actions, criticized the "other" women...it does not seem like H is very loyal to women! Had she divorced Bill, run for Senator of NY, I think I would have a better opinion of her (I did vote for Bill) since I voted for Dems 1992-2012...I know...frack, sigh.

    Whatever pact they made to stay married is just too bizarre for me...and, I just can't get over the audacity of doin'-it in the Oval Office, just disgraceful. MSM keeps harping like a bunch of prudes about Trump's vulgarianism, but how does Bill getting a blow job in the OVAL OFFICE get a Hall Pass? - did they even parody the BJ in SNL, ever (my kids were babies so I never "made it" to late Saturday night TV...anyone know?

    I have to say, all this talk about a "1st woman president," is so silly, and singularly American parochialism. When Tarja Halonen became Finland's 1st president, it was no big deal. She looks an awful lot like Conan O'Brien; they did do some shows together about that resemblance, which was awesome! In fact, Halonen was pressured to marry her long-time live in, professory man (not the father of her daughter) because the Finnish Parliament members were concerned about how the Middle East leaders (fracking Arafat & those guys from those days) would be able to relate to her/respect her. True Story: at an important meeting in Helsinki decades ago; at a meeting where there were many Muslims, everyone foreign was aghast that in walks a female President and a female Secretary of Defense! Finnish has no word for gender! So funny - was not a fly on the wall, but would have loved it!

    My long-winded point is: How is an American female president assured that these massively misogynistic countries where females are subjugated, autocratic, theocratic, chauvinistic, princes, kings, dictators and mullahs, or whatever, will respect her and believe she has the correct vision for improving whatever needs improvement. The Nordic countries have already had female presidents, but when Thatcher was PM, the M.E. was not in the state of chaos ( and the Gulf State countries refuse to house the refugees) with no end in sight. All of the USA is sick of the M.E. - it is a nightmare like a cancer.

    Lastly, I want the conversation to steer back to IMMIGRATION when it is debate time, because it is at the root of the causes for the failure of many institutions/economies right now...and it will bring us all down.

    , @NOTA
    Yeah, Hillary's actual credentials for the job are pretty good, but she's not an especially gifted politician--she's not a great speaker like Obama, she's not automatically likable like Reagan, she doesn't magically connect to people like her husband. She's like another Nixon--not in the sense of Watergate, but in the sense of being someone whose quest to be president is uphill, because she doesn't have a lot of natural talent for it. She's like a mediocre athlete who works his ass off in practice and studies up on the game in his off hours, trying to make it to the pros on hard work and grit.

    By contrast, Trump's credentials for the job are lousy--he's never been in government, has little detailed knowledge of policy, doesn't have an insiders understanding of the system. But he's just oozing with natural talent at *getting* the job.
  14. JsP says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    Where have you been?

    The ENTIRE GOP had those things too. And they got thrashed.

    Hillary’s a garbage candidate running a garbage campaign.

    So far her “experts” have come up with ideas like calling her opponent “poor Donald”–an idea so comically awful it beggars belief.

    You’re living in some kind of weird boomer bubble where you think there are ” experts ” who aren’t completely incompetent. They’re just dumb as hell and don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s that simple.

    Same applies to the other side–its hard to imagine a nonexpert being as wrong as people like Karl Rove and Bill kristol.

    There are no evil geniuses behind the scenes or Hillary wouldn’t have been wrecked by Obama and embarrassed by Bernie Sanders of all people. they’re evil alright–but calling them little Eichmanns would be an insult to the latter’s intelligence.

    • Agree: Jack Hanson, Anonym
    • Replies: @e
    MSM will ask the traditional questions at a Presidential debate and Hillary will do well because she can say, "When I met with the Prime Minister last year, he and I talked about X,Y,and Z" which is sadly what many voters think will make for a good POTUS.

    I think the only time Clinton sounds decent is when she IS on a debate stage. She's horrid on the stump.
  15. @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    The only thing I’m sure Hilary has is money.

    Her time is currently being devoted to Emailgate damage control and trying to finish off the Artful Codger.

    Experts? Maybe. I’m sure Hollywood would lend some talent if asked, but does writing the script for X-Men: Revenge of the Civil War Apocalypse really give you any insight into defeating Trump? Academics are politically correct frauds as has been beaten to death on this blog. Google or Facebook big data analytics is useless in this situation.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Re Hollywood scriptwriters, they're accustomed to writing movies and shows in which pure, 100-proof liberalism elicits wild enthusiasm from the voters, because at last a politician is telling the truth! See "Bulworth."

    Unfortunately for them, this time it's Trump telling the truth, albeit between childish rants and insult calling. On issues like immigration, "free trade," the economy, and her foreign policy (Libya), he shouldn't have any trouble making her look bad.
  16. Mrs. Clinton ran rings around Rick Lazio. And Trey Gowdy. Trump will be EZ meat, then on to the Presidency. Where her reign will be short but memorable

  17. @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    The same “experts” who brought us “Dangerous Donald”?

  18. Ted Cruz is probably the best debater of them all, didn’t effect much. As with W people judge a debate on more than academic and policy point scoring, that said Trump could do with preparing and have some of the policy details nailed down, even if he intends his Presidency to be one of delegation.

    • Replies: @Sam
    1) You're quite correct and Cruz was underwhelming but it is still true that Trump is not a great debater. Trump succeed at debates because he is ideologically different and can stress the big picture points. If you think the Iraq war a big mistake then Trump's inelegant ramblings on it are great since the other candidates are on the opposite side. So Trump's ability to win debates is due to his positions being far closer to the voters broadly speaking. The second reason he won debates is that Republican base knows he is on their side and therefore instinctively side with him over all the others including the media. If Trump can highlight the big issues where he differs drastically from Hillary then he should be good.

    2)


    As with W people judge a debate on more than academic and policy point scoring

     

    True but having a minimum of policy acquittance assures voters that a candidate is "capable enough". Trump can't meet those standards based on what we have seen. On details he is very sketchy. From what I recall he got the nuclear trident question wrong on two occasions despite being publicly humiliated the first time on tv. The question isn't super important per se but the fact that he didn't swallow his pride and read up on it, to avoid the same embarrassment, is. This is by far his biggest weakness and shouldn't be hard to correct yet he is astoundingly lazy,intellectually speaking, so who knows.

    3) Trump was smart to avoid a 1 v 1 debate with Cruz because it would have inevitably exposed him on the details. He won't escape this fate against Clinton and nor will be able to run down the clock as much. So be prepared for some embarrassing moments. Furthermore, the sort of people who follow Trump through thick and thin are already mostly on his side. The rest of country won't be as loyal. And nor will be able to use his wit as much as the 1 v 1 debates are more formal and less open to retorts.

    Trump's advantage?
    1) As so many times already Trump's strength is the ability to fight the match according to his rules. If Hillary tries to come up with smart lines zinging Trump she will be devastated by him. Because he is good at that and she is not quick on her feet. And when faced up against awkward lines and questions she retreats to a snarly and snarky attitude which is a put-off. She does this at debates and with interviewers.

    2)One of his best cards was to stake out a position that is broadly popular but non-establishment, which forces other candidates to look weak or me-too(like Cruz on immigration). So he should always make clear that Hillary won't say "islamic extremism" and goad her into it for example. Force her to triangulate between his position and Obama's on one big issue after another. Before and/or after each debate I would hold a (re)statement on some big issue which would shape the newscycle on the media and on her. She hates speaking to the press so he should force her to and if not she cedes the landscape to him.

    The astute Michael Malice has great points on these upcoming debates:
    https://youtu.be/rg6qM3cnVhQ?t=24m19s

    , @NC
    He should just work on insults and one liners. He a master troll and he really needs to keep offending. If he can make Hillary cry preferably during a debate, that would be the best thing. On the other hand if his people think he hasn't got their back or that he's going to back down and apologize, he's done. Trump isn't a great debater and his policy flubs are embarrassing, but that doesn't make any difference. This is the first election where whites will be voting in their interests as something like a bloc group. They are now effectively just another minority. They don't have the vocabulary or the courage to make that explicit, but they know that Hillary and a continuation of Republican/Democrat policy positions are poison to them. When one candidate is advocating WW3 abroad and demographic displacement/voluntary self abnegation and impoverishment at home, it's easy to ignore wonk stuff and vote for the guy who's counter signalling against that.

    It helps a lot that Hillary is a very weak candidate with negative charisma and no real appeal to anyone. I won't be surprised if they pull the nomination out from her again like they did 8 years ago. Her shtick is that it's her turn. That didn't work 20 years ago for Dole or 8 years ago for her against Obama, and it's weak sauce now.
    , @AndrewR
    Ted Cruz is an awful debater. He answered the opening question to a debate, which was a question about domestic policy, with a total nojsequitor about keeping the defenseless Israelis safe from those evil Iranian Moslems. I felt nauseous.
  19. Sam says:
    @LondonBob
    Ted Cruz is probably the best debater of them all, didn't effect much. As with W people judge a debate on more than academic and policy point scoring, that said Trump could do with preparing and have some of the policy details nailed down, even if he intends his Presidency to be one of delegation.

    1) You’re quite correct and Cruz was underwhelming but it is still true that Trump is not a great debater. Trump succeed at debates because he is ideologically different and can stress the big picture points. If you think the Iraq war a big mistake then Trump’s inelegant ramblings on it are great since the other candidates are on the opposite side. So Trump’s ability to win debates is due to his positions being far closer to the voters broadly speaking. The second reason he won debates is that Republican base knows he is on their side and therefore instinctively side with him over all the others including the media. If Trump can highlight the big issues where he differs drastically from Hillary then he should be good.

    2)

    As with W people judge a debate on more than academic and policy point scoring

    True but having a minimum of policy acquittance assures voters that a candidate is “capable enough”. Trump can’t meet those standards based on what we have seen. On details he is very sketchy. From what I recall he got the nuclear trident question wrong on two occasions despite being publicly humiliated the first time on tv. The question isn’t super important per se but the fact that he didn’t swallow his pride and read up on it, to avoid the same embarrassment, is. This is by far his biggest weakness and shouldn’t be hard to correct yet he is astoundingly lazy,intellectually speaking, so who knows.

    3) Trump was smart to avoid a 1 v 1 debate with Cruz because it would have inevitably exposed him on the details. He won’t escape this fate against Clinton and nor will be able to run down the clock as much. So be prepared for some embarrassing moments. Furthermore, the sort of people who follow Trump through thick and thin are already mostly on his side. The rest of country won’t be as loyal. And nor will be able to use his wit as much as the 1 v 1 debates are more formal and less open to retorts.

    Trump’s advantage?
    1) As so many times already Trump’s strength is the ability to fight the match according to his rules. If Hillary tries to come up with smart lines zinging Trump she will be devastated by him. Because he is good at that and she is not quick on her feet. And when faced up against awkward lines and questions she retreats to a snarly and snarky attitude which is a put-off. She does this at debates and with interviewers.

    2)One of his best cards was to stake out a position that is broadly popular but non-establishment, which forces other candidates to look weak or me-too(like Cruz on immigration). So he should always make clear that Hillary won’t say “islamic extremism” and goad her into it for example. Force her to triangulate between his position and Obama’s on one big issue after another. Before and/or after each debate I would hold a (re)statement on some big issue which would shape the newscycle on the media and on her. She hates speaking to the press so he should force her to and if not she cedes the landscape to him.

    The astute Michael Malice has great points on these upcoming debates:

  20. @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    Steve, you’ve been losing so long that you’ve forgotten how to win. You’ve got to get used to winning again.

  21. Gentlemen, the following video is going to destroy your sense of self-identity.

    As you watch the following about America’s #1 Alpha-Male(!) Please remember…

    SUICIDE IS PAINLESS.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    You are clearly not native to the USA. That smarmy, faux-working-class-Brit-accent on the voice-over is viscerally offensive to American ears and guarantees that many listeners will try to vote in a way that annoys its source. Also, there are two kinds of Brit humor: Monty Pythonesque which has broad appeal and the type that is exuded by fruity Labor Party types and the highly unpopular Colbert wannabes that the Beeb keeps shipping over here. The "humor" displayed in your clip is of the latter type and holds little appeal for those in this country who are not politically deranged.
    , @Mark Eugenikos
    Truth, it is indeed sad to see you come to this. I watched the "video". It's 11 minutes of some dude with a funny accent rambling incoherently about... I am actually not sure what he rambled about.

    The only thing this video is going to destroy is any respect for your intelligence or common sense that the visitors of this site may have left. You really don't need to go out of your way to embarrass yourself.
  22. A significant number of people (like me) will no doubt find Trump’s thinking-as-he-speaks extemporaneous style incredibly refreshing. I’m a former debater, and I can’t even watch five minutes of Ted Cruz talking without wondering why he always sounds like he’s reading off his debate notes. Trump, I think, is much, much more intelligent than what his nouveau riche/New Money facade suggests. Plus, he’s hysterical. Watching him eviscerate Jeb! was magical.

  23. @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    She’s also got a morally confused, devious and paranoid homosexual (David Brock), Muslim lesbian lady-in-waiting (Huma Weiner) and hordes of brainwashed feminists all across the fruited plain.

  24. ziel says: • Website

    When the debates got down to just him, Rubio, Cruz and Kasich, he appeared to struggle. He very skillfully brought up Kasich a few times in his responses to Cruz/Rubio so that Kasich would have 90 seconds to respond and give him some time to breathe after the onslaughts of the other two. Did he ever debate just Cruz and Kasich?

    If he actually is spending time going over policy points, that’s good news, because a one-on-one debate is just non-stop policy discussions. As much as we all can’t stand McCain, he was amazing with the policy stuff – and apparently would just wing it, because he was so familiar with all the issues. Like Steve pointed out, Donald just wings it too but he’s not familiar with the details and traps, and it could be quite messy.

    What he will be good at is parrying her attacks. But if she lays off the attacks, other than to point out his knowledge shortfalls, he might crash and burn.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    In an off-the-cuff discussion of real estate deals, Trump would wipe the floor with almost anyone--he's a genuine expert at that stuff, and he's been doing it his whole adult life. McCain (and Hillary) are similar with federal policy issues--they've spent many decades living in that world, and they're smart people, so they really know it backward and forward. Even if Trump had a lot of interest in detailed policy and politics (he shows no sign of such interest), it would be a real challenge for him to be prepared to come off well in that kind of discussion with Hillary.
  25. NC says:
    @LondonBob
    Ted Cruz is probably the best debater of them all, didn't effect much. As with W people judge a debate on more than academic and policy point scoring, that said Trump could do with preparing and have some of the policy details nailed down, even if he intends his Presidency to be one of delegation.

    He should just work on insults and one liners. He a master troll and he really needs to keep offending. If he can make Hillary cry preferably during a debate, that would be the best thing. On the other hand if his people think he hasn’t got their back or that he’s going to back down and apologize, he’s done. Trump isn’t a great debater and his policy flubs are embarrassing, but that doesn’t make any difference. This is the first election where whites will be voting in their interests as something like a bloc group. They are now effectively just another minority. They don’t have the vocabulary or the courage to make that explicit, but they know that Hillary and a continuation of Republican/Democrat policy positions are poison to them. When one candidate is advocating WW3 abroad and demographic displacement/voluntary self abnegation and impoverishment at home, it’s easy to ignore wonk stuff and vote for the guy who’s counter signalling against that.

    It helps a lot that Hillary is a very weak candidate with negative charisma and no real appeal to anyone. I won’t be surprised if they pull the nomination out from her again like they did 8 years ago. Her shtick is that it’s her turn. That didn’t work 20 years ago for Dole or 8 years ago for her against Obama, and it’s weak sauce now.

  26. This team won the college debate championship. Trump should emulate their style for laughs.

  27. Hillary had to be dragged into debating Sanders. I think her health is such that physically she can barely do the debates. Trump may end up repeating nonsense while Hillary collapses onstage. I would be surprised if there ends up being more than one or two debates.

    • Replies: @Rapparee
    She has admitted to a "slight" incontinence problem, at least, which keeps her running off the stage at commercial breaks. Her health concerns should really be a bigger issue in this campaign, given how it affects fitness for office, but reporters mostly play Sergeant O'Hara- "Move along now folks, nuthin' ta see here!".

    If Mrs. Clinton can stay on her prepackaged talking points, she will be in great shape, but she seems easily rattled by personal insults, and Mr. Trump isn't afraid to throw out some very cutting ones. Donald Trump, on the other hand, has an ironclad ego which, although sometimes petty, doesn't get emotionally perturbed by personal attacks, but has trouble sticking to lucid, well-prepared responses.

    One upshot is that Trump's disadvantages are easier to train for than Clinton's. If Mr. Trump spends enough hours in tough debate prep, he can probably learn to put a leash on his motor-mouth. Mrs. Clinton, on the other hand, will have trouble practicing for the kinds of emotional daggers that will be coming across the stage.

  28. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump’s skin.

    Really? This is the insight from a former cog in the wheel of a marketing business. Trump probably laughs at this kind of peon perspective. He laughs at little men. Trump has spent his life locking horns with fellow titans and the aggressive cognitive elites of NYC. I’m sure he will do very well against Hillary. In fact, I think it’ll be a live demonstration on how to systematically dismantle a political opponent.

    The late Christopher Hitchens on Hillary Clinton:

    “Everything about this campaign, and everything about this candidate, was rotten from the very start. Mrs. Clinton has the most unappetizing combination of qualities to be met in many days’ march: she is a tyrant and a bully when she can dare to be, and an ingratiating populist when that will serve. She will sometimes appear in the guise of a ‘strong woman’ and sometimes in the softer garb of a winsome and vulnerable female. She is entirely un-self-critical and quite devoid of reflective capacity, and has never found that any of her numerous misfortunes or embarrassments are her own fault, because the fault invariably lies with others. And, speaking of where things lie, she can in a close contest keep up with her husband for mendacity. Like him, she is not just a liar but a lie; a phony construct of shreds and patches and hysterical, self-pitying, demagogic improvisations.” (No One Left to Lie To, p. 123)

  29. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The audience for the debates will be the public, not debate coaches or other such professionals. It’s the public’s impressions that will count and their criteria is different. There’s also the reality of the issues that are hanging like a cloud over all of us. Trump has tapped into the issues of shrinking employment for a large segment of Americans, ridiculously high levels of immigration from third world countries (the latter part left unspoken), constant foreign wars for no perceived benefit to anyone and other aspects of an elitist rule of the country with little regard for what’s good for the majority of citizens. What does Clinton offer except more of the same? She seems to be a continuation of the current administration with it’s worship of homosexuality and hug-a-thug racial divisiveness with nothing to offer except rhetoric.

  30. Steve once again makes appeals about the power of the same “experts” that haven’t been able to stump the Trump for almost a year now.

    Steve, how many articles about Jeb or Rubio losing the election gracefully did you have to scrap? Be honest.

    It’s also worth noting that supposed master debater Cruz lost to Trump as well. Hillary is absolutely miserable in front of a podium (6pm debates on a Saturday night to ensure her coronation help bear out that the Dems know this as well).

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    The press still thinks this is Kennedy and Nixon debating the missile gap and Quemoy-Matsu or some such high-fallutin' BS that makes them out to be Serious People talking about What Matters. Trump knows that this is reality TV.

    I'd bet dollars to donuts that not one Trump voter in 100 could state any position of his other than immigration, but they don't care. Trump cares about America. He may yet screw us, but it is a certainty that Rs and Ds will.

    Trump 60 - 40 popular vote. 320 electoral.

  31. @Das
    I think Trump has made it clear that he's going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.

    It could work spectacularly, particularly because a lot of voters were children back in the 90s, and will be hearing all that stuff for the first time.

    It could backfire and give Clinton the sympathy vote.

    Whatever “sympathy vote” he loses will be more than made up for by people who appreciate him calling her on her BS.

  32. If by “good debater” you mean someone who bothers to memorize a bunch of flash cards that the neocon consultants have prepared, I guess Trump is not very good. By that definition, Ted Cruz or Carly Fiorina are strong debaters.

    I tend to prefer someone who can think on his feet. I knew Trump would win the nomination as soon as he flipped the script with the “Only Rosie O’Donnell” exchange in the first debate.

    He will make Hillary look worse than Jeb.

  33. The question is moot.

    Because political debating is overrated.

    Trump did mediocre to okay in the Republican debates.

    Who won the nomination?

    I can point to many other examples of the poorer debater winning the election.

    Because the matter of who wins the election hinges on many more important and crucial factors than debates.

  34. Leftist conservative [AKA "Make Unz.com Great Again"] says: • Website

    Don’t go wobbly Steve.

    steve was never firm on trump

    • Replies: @Anonymous


    Don’t go wobbly Steve.
     
    steve was never firm on trump
     
    I'm sure the following won't make it through because of the moderator's fragile ego. But here it goes.

    Sailer needs the world to continue spiral downward for his pessimistic prognostications. Also, Sailer is fueled by envy. Trump is able to say in one simple and entertaining sentence what guys like Sailer try to convey in pretentious and tediously-long essays where even then he is forced to use examples and reference other writers and ideas to make his point. Brevity is a masculine trait, Sailer! Lastly, Sailer is majorly envious of Trump for being ultra rich and having a super model wife and having golf courses around the world. Sailer can snipe at Trump for his "tacky taste" but Sailer would love to be Trump. Even for one day.

  35. BTW, if anyone is going to get under anyone’s skin, it’s Trump that’s going to get under Hillary’s skin, and not in any debate. I can easily see Trump saying something that starts a huge Caucasian chimpout between Bill and Hillary that gets massively personal and in public view.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    Agreed, and the way to do it is to talk about race. Make Hillary defend the absolute worst behavior of BLM or LaRaza and she will be cooked. Same thing with sex. Make her defend her surrogates in the press's attacks on Trump and then turn it around towards Bill Clinton. My guess is that Trump can go a lot more places and say a lot more things than can Hillary. That's the territory Trump wants to own.
  36. AP says:
    @whorefinder
    It's really all about the zingers and quips. Trump treated the debates as competitive roasts only there to judge who got the best zingers in- which he was totally right about. It wasn't a traditional collegiate or H.S. debate with rules---it was more akin to that black National Debate team's "debates." And this will be, too.

    Trump gets that decorum and stuffy old rules are out. It's not a win-on-points thing. Because this is a street fight. This is TV in primetime. This is his wheelhouse.

    The audience will be salivating for him to do it to Crooked Hillary---even her supporters will be hyperventilating looking for his quips. Hillary obviously thinks he will do it to her--and she's probably ( and stupidly) either lining up her own "zingers" (which will fall flat---like Rubio's did), or else going to play the "Trump is a mean mean bully card" (also will fail---in one of her first debates when she first ran for Senate in NY, the token Republican dude came over and got in her personal space, and her campaign said it was something about "male domination" and it fell flat as an attack).

    Look, his opening lines are potentially mic-dropping in its hilarity and its truth:

    "See this woman over here? I paid her to come to my son's wedding. And she came. She does what her paymasters tell her. Me? I can't be bought. I'm worth billions; she's worth whatever access you buy with her. You can have a crooked, bought candidate, or you can have a guy who can't be bought, and who wins. And America loves a winner."

    BOOM.

    P.S. it's also gonna be great when he interrupts her and talks over her. She's got a rep as a person who gets very angry when she gets ambushed or has to go off script. She's used to total deference from her staff. Trump is probably planning on interrupting her at key moments to set her off. She'll either get visibly angry--at which case he'll harp on her temperament--or do some fake laughing bit to cover her anger, which will be endlessly mocked by Trump's guys. And if she's drinking before the debate---as she is a rumored heavy drinker.....

    “See this woman over here? I paid her to come to my son’s wedding. And she came. She does what her paymasters tell her. Me? I can’t be bought. I’m worth billions; she’s worth whatever access you buy with her. You can have a crooked, bought candidate, or you can have a guy who can’t be bought, and who wins. And America loves a winner.”

    This sort of thing helped Trump win the Republican nomination. But once he won it, he turned around and asked for money like any other candidate.

    His excuse is that Republicans are forcing him to do it:

    http://nypost.com/2016/05/25/trump-the-rnc-is-forcing-rich-peoples-money-on-me/

  37. @whorefinder

    It could backfire and give Clinton the sympathy vote.
     
    Doubtful. Hillary is really bad at being a sympathetic, woe-is-me creature. She's a ballbuster/fighter, as she proved during the Clinton Perjury. Again, she should go Margaret Thatcher and ditch this fake grandma/fake warmth/fake funny routine. She'd get more respect.

    But if she did suddenly try for sympathy, it would (1) look fake as heck; and (2) look really, really unpresidential---she'd look weak and like she can't run her home life and her marriage. Nobody wants a sad sack as president.

    Nobody wants a sad sack as president.

    This may come as news to you but Bernie has tens of millions of supporters

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Bernie shouts a loud, good game combined with the aww-gee-avuncular act--not a sad sack act. His getting pushed off stage and sheepishly leaving when the BLM thuggerettes showed up gets very airplay among his supporters. His handlers keep his natural weakness very under wraps. Probable that 95% of his supporters don't know he got nothing done in Congress.

    If Trump did feel Bernie a threat he'd immediate highlight his weak nature and expose him. "That Crazy Bernie, always talks a good game, but wilts like a flower when the pressure's on!"
  38. @LondonBob
    Ted Cruz is probably the best debater of them all, didn't effect much. As with W people judge a debate on more than academic and policy point scoring, that said Trump could do with preparing and have some of the policy details nailed down, even if he intends his Presidency to be one of delegation.

    Ted Cruz is an awful debater. He answered the opening question to a debate, which was a question about domestic policy, with a total nojsequitor about keeping the defenseless Israelis safe from those evil Iranian Moslems. I felt nauseous.

  39. I’m sure all the professional commentariat will score the debates for Hillary, not just for reasons of bias but because she will know the difference between Niger and Nigeria and Trump won’t when.

    If you listen to the audio of the 1960 debates, Nixon the high school debate champion wins on points. But if you watch the video with the sound turned off, JFK is clearly the winner. Nixon looks like “Tricky Dick” with a 5 oclock shadow, sweating bullets and mopping his brow, while Kennedy looks like he just got off his yacht after spending some quality time with Marilyn Monroe (because he probably did).

    I think the same thing will happen here – no matter how much Hillary “wins” on paper, she isn’t going to win on screen where it really counts.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Correct, and given that we're increasingly a country of citizens with the attention span of a gnat, optics are YYUUUUGE.
  40. Who cares? They aren’t even “debates” in the strictest sense of the word. They’re glorified campaign speeches. And it’s all about image anyway. As we’ve been reminded ad nauseam, had the first Kennedy-Nixon debate been restricted to radio, Nixon would have won. Instead, the networks used both formats so that on the tellie Kennedy appeared to be calm, cool and collected while Nixon came off as sweaty and uptight.

  41. Trump is going to get his wig split in the debates.

    Recently the issue of Trump University has come up in the news. I need not repeat how much of a fraud that was because it’s all over the Internet. Most people would look at the product and immediately reject it as it is not an accredited University. Others have buyer’s remorse and either admit they were tricked or fight back (learning from your mistakes is a good thing). The remaining are just plain pathetic people.

    What people really mean by “Make America Great Again” is, “Make America great again, fuck equal rights for anyone not a straight, white, man.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Do you kiss your trans-mother with that mouth? Trump University is no more of a joke than "The Celebrity Apprentice" which succeeded within its demotic parameters. The ones scampering forth to whine about their enrollment in TU are proclaiming themselves to be suckers -- in your hilarious wishful thinking the average undecided voter will now identify with the self-styled sucker/complainer, who thought it prudent to buy into yet *admits* getting nothing out of it; rather than the response found in reality: shrugging at Trump's poor customer service w/ low Yelp rating for a tacky cash-in drop-in-the-bucket side deal. Hillary can't mobilize the outraged alumni, hell, she can't even explain why their outrage matters. The fine-print legal contours of the TU fraud allegation might indeed be socially significant but will go over like Sominex in Idiocracy Current Year. You sound like someone carping about Red Dye #2 circa 1986. Meanwhile there are big-boy adults'-table topics under examination this year, you might prefer to retire to your room for a good cry about victimized education consumers.
    , @RadicalCenter
    You're attacking s straw man in several respects. Trump is not at all hostile to gays and has a typical nyc attitude towards it as a non-issue.
  42. Trump needs to structure the “debates” away from TV celebrity journalists asking questions in favor of a man on man contest between the candidates. No lecturnfor the Rodhamster to hide her enormous pantsuit clad beam behind, eg.

    Position the candidates close together so Trumps height advantage and the Rodhamsters dermatological issues are highlighted. Trumps a pro at reality TV and style and format matters more than substance in this arena.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    There needs to be an alt-right debate.
  43. iSteveFan says:

    Debate is not Trump’s specialty because to be a good debater you must commit to memory facts about the general topics likely to come up in the debate. Trump is a smart guy. He went to Wharton, etc. But he doesn’t command issues like a Bill Clinton type policy wonk.

    I think this is because Trump doesn’t find it interesting. He lives and dies for the “deal”. He gets a high whenever he negotiates a deal that he finds to be in his favor.

    The way he does this is to arrive at a meeting with his lieutenants. He will make offers and counter offers. When a question arises, he looks at one of his lieutenants for the specific answer, and then proceeds with the negotiation. This obviously works well for him in business, and would probably work well in negotiating with other nations over trade. But in a debate where he has no lieutenants , he looks lost at times.

    I am not writing this as a criticism. Being a good debater by being able to know and recall every detail of every policy doesn’t translate into being an effective executive let alone a strong leader. After all how many of us would follow Nate Silver to the gates of hell?

    Trump has other qualities that make him a good executive and leader, including the ability to make a decision without first trying to cover his rear. Too many nerd types running for office can’t pull the trigger on a decision without consulting polling data.

    So Trump has strengths others don’t. But being alone in a debate is not one of his talents. Hopefully his thinking out loud will not damage him. And if his opponent is Hillary, she doesn’t have the skill to exploit it anyway.

  44. How did Silvio Berlusconi stack up as a debater?

  45. @Lugash
    The only thing I'm sure Hilary has is money.

    Her time is currently being devoted to Emailgate damage control and trying to finish off the Artful Codger.

    Experts? Maybe. I'm sure Hollywood would lend some talent if asked, but does writing the script for X-Men: Revenge of the Civil War Apocalypse really give you any insight into defeating Trump? Academics are politically correct frauds as has been beaten to death on this blog. Google or Facebook big data analytics is useless in this situation.

    Re Hollywood scriptwriters, they’re accustomed to writing movies and shows in which pure, 100-proof liberalism elicits wild enthusiasm from the voters, because at last a politician is telling the truth! See “Bulworth.”

    Unfortunately for them, this time it’s Trump telling the truth, albeit between childish rants and insult calling. On issues like immigration, “free trade,” the economy, and her foreign policy (Libya), he shouldn’t have any trouble making her look bad.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Don't forget also how the mean-old-evil-right-wing opponent always follows along with the script and proves himself to be a dundering baffoon (American Dreamz, The Day After Tomorrow)/complete sociopath only saying these things to get elected/power (Bob Roberts, The American President).

    I'll never forget caught one episode of that crap show The West Wing once where a Christian Conservative lobbyist was arguing with some leftwinger. The Christian Conservative dude , because he is a dumb lying hypocrite, screws up and forgets what is the first of the Ten Commandments! It takes the truly moral Jeb Bartlett to walk in and correct him, "I am the Lord thy God!"

    I remember nearly barfing at how ham-handed, unrealistic, and propagandist the scene was. Turns out the whole series was such lefty-fanatsy-land b.s.

    The hilarious part is when a good non-lefty debater (future Trump V.P. Ann Coulter) gets in a debate with a lefty and doesn't follow their script. Their faces get twisted in pain as the cognitive dissonance hits their pressure, triggered amygdala. You can tell the lefties haven't ever considered a non-lefty point of view or argued with an intelligent non-lefty evah. It's like they finally discover that there is no Santa Claus.

  46. @D. K.
    I think that you are asking this question from your own perspective, Steve, as a former debater. How the average American swing voter views who won a so-called debate is a very different thing from how someone like you would judge it, according to the principles that you were trained in, back in the day. I believe that the unwashed masses, on the Internet, viewed Trump to have won almost all of the Republican debates, even though journalists and political pundits almost always thought otherwise. Scott Adams, the "Dilbert" creator and persuasion expert, believes that Trump has been playing on a whole different level from all of his competitors.

    You are right DK. On logical terms, Cruz won a few of the debates. But Trump won on rhetoric, Trump won with the IQ 95-105 hordes. He’s willfully simplified his message to appeal to the professional wresting and reality TV types, this is good.

  47. Trump isn’t even debating Obama and he’s inside of his OODA loop. Master Debater Obama couldn’t even formulate a response to Trump and he’s had months to prepare a kill shot and what happens?

    He stammers and sputters and can’t formulate a thought.

    But “muh experts!”

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Image is everything. TV is about images. All it would take is for Hillary during a lengthy response to go into a coughing fit for several seconds (which appear to be a very long time in TVland) and Trump's point is made: Look at her, she doesn't even have the stamina to finish a sentence without appearing old, worn out, tired, etc.

    Al Gore's perpetual sighs in the '00 debates are still talked about. Just one coughing fit is all it would take for Hillary to be finished. One major coughing fit, live, and for several seconds. It wouldn't look very good for her.
  48. Trump’s is a wild card because he cannot be predicted to act like a typical beta who would normally be deferential to a woman. His alpha nature does not allow him to take shit from women any more than he does men. That means he will not only return fire whenever he chooses but he will aim it where it hurts most; whether it be her husband’s affairs, Syria, or her shoes. Clinton will have to be prepared to defend everywhere. And you know what they say about she who defends everywhere…?

  49. @whorefinder
    It's really all about the zingers and quips. Trump treated the debates as competitive roasts only there to judge who got the best zingers in- which he was totally right about. It wasn't a traditional collegiate or H.S. debate with rules---it was more akin to that black National Debate team's "debates." And this will be, too.

    Trump gets that decorum and stuffy old rules are out. It's not a win-on-points thing. Because this is a street fight. This is TV in primetime. This is his wheelhouse.

    The audience will be salivating for him to do it to Crooked Hillary---even her supporters will be hyperventilating looking for his quips. Hillary obviously thinks he will do it to her--and she's probably ( and stupidly) either lining up her own "zingers" (which will fall flat---like Rubio's did), or else going to play the "Trump is a mean mean bully card" (also will fail---in one of her first debates when she first ran for Senate in NY, the token Republican dude came over and got in her personal space, and her campaign said it was something about "male domination" and it fell flat as an attack).

    Look, his opening lines are potentially mic-dropping in its hilarity and its truth:

    "See this woman over here? I paid her to come to my son's wedding. And she came. She does what her paymasters tell her. Me? I can't be bought. I'm worth billions; she's worth whatever access you buy with her. You can have a crooked, bought candidate, or you can have a guy who can't be bought, and who wins. And America loves a winner."

    BOOM.

    P.S. it's also gonna be great when he interrupts her and talks over her. She's got a rep as a person who gets very angry when she gets ambushed or has to go off script. She's used to total deference from her staff. Trump is probably planning on interrupting her at key moments to set her off. She'll either get visibly angry--at which case he'll harp on her temperament--or do some fake laughing bit to cover her anger, which will be endlessly mocked by Trump's guys. And if she's drinking before the debate---as she is a rumored heavy drinker.....

    I agree… it’s all about the zingers, it’s all about adding to the highlight reel. Trump will at some point make her look like an idiot, an incompetent, a crook, or a combination thereof. Maybe more than once. It will get endless airplay.

    +420. Stumped.

  50. The fact that he chickened out of the debate against Bernie was very troubling. A conservative interested in policy would love to debate a socialist. Ask how people whose labor is not worth $15 per hour are supposed to get a job. Ask about Venezuela and why socialism is failing there. Challenge Bernie to explain what the Baltimore and Ferguson police officers did wrong. Does Bernie support more section 8 housing in Vermont?

    • Replies: @Anonym
    Roger Stone said publicly what a bad idea it would be to debate Bernie because then he alienates the Bernie supporters who might otherwise vote for Trump IIRC. He was adamant it was a bad idea. So I think that may be behind why.
    , @Olorin
    Front-runner ought never debate second-runner on the other side.
    , @Brutusale
    "Chickened out" or, in a rational calculation weighed in terms of Help/Hurt, found the idea wanting.
  51. @countenance
    BTW, if anyone is going to get under anyone's skin, it's Trump that's going to get under Hillary's skin, and not in any debate. I can easily see Trump saying something that starts a huge Caucasian chimpout between Bill and Hillary that gets massively personal and in public view.

    Agreed, and the way to do it is to talk about race. Make Hillary defend the absolute worst behavior of BLM or LaRaza and she will be cooked. Same thing with sex. Make her defend her surrogates in the press’s attacks on Trump and then turn it around towards Bill Clinton. My guess is that Trump can go a lot more places and say a lot more things than can Hillary. That’s the territory Trump wants to own.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Right. And very few people have heard about the Lolita Express, how Hillary made $20 million making speeches, the millenials were not even born when BJC was banging Monica, everybody understands email hacking, etc. And Trump will tell the "impartial" journalist moderators to STFU if they step out of line. It's gonna be great.
  52. They are debates in name only. Really they are just TV shows in which candidates respond to questions from talking heads. They don’t truly debate each other, say, the way some of us did in college.

    Debating skill does not necessarily translate into a good peformance — and the only victory is that which occurs in viewers’/voters’ minds.

    Witness 1960, the first televised presidential debates. Radio listeners thought Nixon won, while all the women watching TV saw how much better Kennedy looked. Nixon won those debates, but look where that got him.

  53. Everybody reading (and writing) here should know that the “debates” aren’t really DEBATES, and haven’t been since the League of Women Voters ran the things. Rhetoric vs Dialectic, sound bites, and zingers rule the roost. Also, expect a hostile (to TRUMP, not to Clinton) so-called “moderator.”

    So we should recalibrate any ideas we have about exactly what a “good debater” means in this context. Someone, I think “dudarino,” said something about Trump reviewing policy details, and I kek’ed. Policy is NEVER the focus of these debates, again, not since the League handled them. Nowadays the only time policy is used is as a “gotcha” with an oddly specific question (Name the third-largest city in Libya. You can’t? You’re unqualified!), and Trump has faced enough of these traps to know to do what Clinton, Elderbush, etc., all do, ignore the question and ramble on about some unrelated policy point that they want to stress. WIN!

    For an example of winning a “debate,” remember when Juan Ellis Bush said that his mom “was the strongest person I know” and Trump responded, “She should be running.”? THAT is what passes for “debate” in this context, and this is the kind of thing that Trump excels at.

    And, keep in mind that Trump has been facing hostile moderators at these events and hostile press in interviews since his announcement, whereas Clinton has been facing a friendly press that treats her with kid gloves and has its questions screened by her staff. When Clinton has to face and respond to a hostile and intelligent adversary like Trump, it is SHE who will be in unfamiliar territory.

    Clinton’s gonna get schlonged.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    In hindsight Jeb Bush left a massive opening there. No one wants a mamma's boy as POTUS. Trump 'went there' and exploited the opening to devastating effect.

    In this debate there will be no "The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails.". Eye rollling and pleading the 5th is not going to cut it. The beauty of Hillary is that she leaves herself open to so many canned zingers Trump can preplan to include, in addition to the off the cuff remarks he has proven to be superb at coming up with.

    Perhaps he loses on policy (I doubt it) or says something wrong or fails to know some minor detail. But Trump will do more damage. Hillary's weaknesses will be exposed as presidential deal breakers, red flags that indicate one should be profoundly uncomfortable about pulling the lever for her.

    Hillary is liable to mention her XX chromosome. It may be a reason some would vote for her but this is the sort of tangential quality a candidate should never, ever personally talk about - it damns themselves with faint praise. Like that candidate (Edwards?) who thought mentioning how good his hair was. Yes, women might have said the same thing about Bill but he would have never put on the table himself as it looks so weak and desperate.
  54. Trump is definitely a poor debater. But he’s selling a much better product than Hillary: border security, an American first foreign policy, better trade deals, etc. Hillary’s globalism and politics of the fringes is a tough sell, even if Hillary was a charismatic speaker and sharp debater, which she most certainly isn’t. Whenever Bernie makes a good point, Hillary literally starts shrieking and whining about sexism.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Thing is he needs to explain those policies, for example why have a minimum wage if we crack down on illegal immigration boosting wages and lowering housing costs etc. He needs to make those logical leaps. I am concerned, in a way I wouldn't be if say Kris Kobach were debating. He will be fine if he prepares, but if he takes the same approach he did to every debate but the last he will be in trouble. Debates are also a great opportunity for him to present himself without the negative filter of the media.
  55. The Presidential debate between Hillary and Trump is likely to be like nothing we’ve ever seen.

    On the downside for Trump, I don’t expect that he will be particularly conversant on the issues, and will likely somewhat embarrass himself with false or obviously wrong answers on a number of questions. On the other hand, he’ll probably be distinctly better prepared for these debates than he was for the Republican debates. He’s been hanging around the political scene as a candidate for far longer than he ever has before, and, because he now has a shot of winning it all, will finally have a decent reason to pay some genuine attention to the issues. I’d expect him to improve quite a bit more than might Hillary — who presumably will hardly improve at all — because he started from such a low baseline of knowledge.

    But that’s perhaps the least important dimension of the debate. Far more important will be two other aspects: the positions each will take, and the utter willingness of Trump to “go there” to press his points.

    The primary goal the debates can achieve for Trump is to put to rest the idea in the minds of the public that he represents an extreme right wing ideologue. The elite with which we have been blessed has spent endless words and money so depicting him, and it is the major concern of most of the public on the fence as to whether to vote for him.

    Hillary has been horrible, truly and almost unbelievably horrible, as Secretary of State. Everything she has done that wasn’t entirely routine turned into chaos or a fiasco. Her intrusion into Libya was a destructive disaster for American interests from Benghazi through the so-called “refugee crisis” to which it contributed. Her positions on Syria and Russia and ISIS were again nothing but disasters, supporting “rebels” who should have been treated as enemies, treating Russia as an enemy when on this issue it should have been an ally, and again creating the so-called “refugee crisis”. And Hilllary, going further back, notoriously supported the Iraq War, which again engendered nothing but chaos.

    What Trump can do with this, and likely will do with it, is to turn the tables on the “progressive”, and make it clear that it is she, not he, who pursues reckless, and perversely stupid, military adventures. This will resonate with an American public disgusted with the waste of blood and treasure in the ME and with its ultimate product: “refugees” no one in their right mind wants to deal with.

    And Trump can make it clear that he is also not a standard issue Republican who wants to take away entitlements, or undermine many of the social values most Americans have come to accept. And he can, again, turn the tables on the “progressive” by making it clear he will go to bat for the American workers, and will cut out the “globalist” view that Hillary has long supported.

    I think there are many voters who haven’t yet realized where Trump actually stands, because they have been swamped with cries of “Fascist” and “Hitler” and depictions of Trump as being way off on the extreme right — so much further than any previous Republican candidate. Of course, Hilllary’s supporters in the media will try to argue that Hitler was also “liberal” on certain social issues — but I think that’s far too subtle a point to resonate with the public. Besides which, didn’t Hitler engage in all kinds of reckless, destructive military adventures? Isn’t that a good part of his being Hitler?

    So Trump has a yuge opportunity here. I’m sure he’ll jump on it, and in his genuinely unique style.

    “Going there” has its upsides and its downsides, but in this context I think on balance it will be the upside that prevails. Trump will never blanch from making his points against Hillary in a way that can’t be ignored, or misunderstood. He will be believed because he will be recognized for speaking his mind, even when he might be better off on a given occasion NOT speaking his mind. A Kinsleyan “gaffe” will become a Trumpian “breath of fresh air”. I do think that at the end of this process many in the public will come to see Trump — maybe even politics — with new eyes.

    The question always remains as to whether the public is ready for so much change in policy, outlook, and style in a President. But the current polls look pretty encouraging.

    • Agree: Mike Sylwester
    • Replies: @Luke Lea

    I think there are many voters who haven’t yet realized where Trump actually stands, because they have been swamped with cries of “Fascist” and “Hitler” and depictions of Trump as being way off on the extreme right. . . So Trump has a yuge opportunity here.
     
    I agree. He can ignore the questions if he likes and just make his main points, whatever the general issue might be. I'm guessing he will do fine.
  56. Trump will have Hillary stuttering just like he has Obama stuttering. She will probably run to the bathroom.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    out of Macon said, "Trump will have Hillary stuttering just like he has Obama stuttering. She will probably run to the bathroom. stuttering just like he has Obama stuttering."

    For a drink

  57. @candid_observer
    The Presidential debate between Hillary and Trump is likely to be like nothing we've ever seen.

    On the downside for Trump, I don't expect that he will be particularly conversant on the issues, and will likely somewhat embarrass himself with false or obviously wrong answers on a number of questions. On the other hand, he'll probably be distinctly better prepared for these debates than he was for the Republican debates. He's been hanging around the political scene as a candidate for far longer than he ever has before, and, because he now has a shot of winning it all, will finally have a decent reason to pay some genuine attention to the issues. I'd expect him to improve quite a bit more than might Hillary -- who presumably will hardly improve at all -- because he started from such a low baseline of knowledge.

    But that's perhaps the least important dimension of the debate. Far more important will be two other aspects: the positions each will take, and the utter willingness of Trump to "go there" to press his points.

    The primary goal the debates can achieve for Trump is to put to rest the idea in the minds of the public that he represents an extreme right wing ideologue. The elite with which we have been blessed has spent endless words and money so depicting him, and it is the major concern of most of the public on the fence as to whether to vote for him.

    Hillary has been horrible, truly and almost unbelievably horrible, as Secretary of State. Everything she has done that wasn't entirely routine turned into chaos or a fiasco. Her intrusion into Libya was a destructive disaster for American interests from Benghazi through the so-called "refugee crisis" to which it contributed. Her positions on Syria and Russia and ISIS were again nothing but disasters, supporting "rebels" who should have been treated as enemies, treating Russia as an enemy when on this issue it should have been an ally, and again creating the so-called "refugee crisis". And Hilllary, going further back, notoriously supported the Iraq War, which again engendered nothing but chaos.

    What Trump can do with this, and likely will do with it, is to turn the tables on the "progressive", and make it clear that it is she, not he, who pursues reckless, and perversely stupid, military adventures. This will resonate with an American public disgusted with the waste of blood and treasure in the ME and with its ultimate product: "refugees" no one in their right mind wants to deal with.

    And Trump can make it clear that he is also not a standard issue Republican who wants to take away entitlements, or undermine many of the social values most Americans have come to accept. And he can, again, turn the tables on the "progressive" by making it clear he will go to bat for the American workers, and will cut out the "globalist" view that Hillary has long supported.

    I think there are many voters who haven't yet realized where Trump actually stands, because they have been swamped with cries of "Fascist" and "Hitler" and depictions of Trump as being way off on the extreme right -- so much further than any previous Republican candidate. Of course, Hilllary's supporters in the media will try to argue that Hitler was also "liberal" on certain social issues -- but I think that's far too subtle a point to resonate with the public. Besides which, didn't Hitler engage in all kinds of reckless, destructive military adventures? Isn't that a good part of his being Hitler?

    So Trump has a yuge opportunity here. I'm sure he'll jump on it, and in his genuinely unique style.

    "Going there" has its upsides and its downsides, but in this context I think on balance it will be the upside that prevails. Trump will never blanch from making his points against Hillary in a way that can't be ignored, or misunderstood. He will be believed because he will be recognized for speaking his mind, even when he might be better off on a given occasion NOT speaking his mind. A Kinsleyan "gaffe" will become a Trumpian "breath of fresh air". I do think that at the end of this process many in the public will come to see Trump -- maybe even politics -- with new eyes.

    The question always remains as to whether the public is ready for so much change in policy, outlook, and style in a President. But the current polls look pretty encouraging.

    I think there are many voters who haven’t yet realized where Trump actually stands, because they have been swamped with cries of “Fascist” and “Hitler” and depictions of Trump as being way off on the extreme right. . . So Trump has a yuge opportunity here.

    I agree. He can ignore the questions if he likes and just make his main points, whatever the general issue might be. I’m guessing he will do fine.

  58. @AndrewR

    Nobody wants a sad sack as president.
     
    This may come as news to you but Bernie has tens of millions of supporters

    Bernie shouts a loud, good game combined with the aww-gee-avuncular act–not a sad sack act. His getting pushed off stage and sheepishly leaving when the BLM thuggerettes showed up gets very airplay among his supporters. His handlers keep his natural weakness very under wraps. Probable that 95% of his supporters don’t know he got nothing done in Congress.

    If Trump did feel Bernie a threat he’d immediate highlight his weak nature and expose him. “That Crazy Bernie, always talks a good game, but wilts like a flower when the pressure’s on!”

  59. As a candidate for the office of US President, Donald Trump’s speaking and debating skills are abysmal.

    The debating score will be in Hillary Clinton’s favor, overwhelmingly. He will make many foolish statements.

    However, everyone in the USA will be watching the debates with unprecedented attention, and so he will have the opportunity to communicate his main arguments.

    Does our electorate want a politician similar to Angela Merkel to become our next President and to maximally flood the USA with cheap-wage, welfare-dependant immigrants? That will be the deciding issue, no matter how much better Clinton debates.

  60. @Truth
    Gentlemen, the following video is going to destroy your sense of self-identity.

    As you watch the following about America's #1 Alpha-Male(!) Please remember...

    SUICIDE IS PAINLESS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfA1Vm43yhg

    You are clearly not native to the USA. That smarmy, faux-working-class-Brit-accent on the voice-over is viscerally offensive to American ears and guarantees that many listeners will try to vote in a way that annoys its source. Also, there are two kinds of Brit humor: Monty Pythonesque which has broad appeal and the type that is exuded by fruity Labor Party types and the highly unpopular Colbert wannabes that the Beeb keeps shipping over here. The “humor” displayed in your clip is of the latter type and holds little appeal for those in this country who are not politically deranged.

    • Agree: PV van der Byl
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Center shot. And I can still hear the reverberations of the arrow. Nicely Done JS!
    , @Truth
    I didn't see humor. I saw a bunch of dudes and chix pretending to be each other.
    , @Lurker

    You are clearly not native to the USA. That smarmy, faux-working-class-Brit-accent on the voice-over is viscerally offensive to American ears
     
    That sounds like a (drunk?) Aussie accent to me, faux or not. Of course some working class Brit accents are very close to Aussie ones.
  61. @Harry Baldwin
    Re Hollywood scriptwriters, they're accustomed to writing movies and shows in which pure, 100-proof liberalism elicits wild enthusiasm from the voters, because at last a politician is telling the truth! See "Bulworth."

    Unfortunately for them, this time it's Trump telling the truth, albeit between childish rants and insult calling. On issues like immigration, "free trade," the economy, and her foreign policy (Libya), he shouldn't have any trouble making her look bad.

    Don’t forget also how the mean-old-evil-right-wing opponent always follows along with the script and proves himself to be a dundering baffoon (American Dreamz, The Day After Tomorrow)/complete sociopath only saying these things to get elected/power (Bob Roberts, The American President).

    I’ll never forget caught one episode of that crap show The West Wing once where a Christian Conservative lobbyist was arguing with some leftwinger. The Christian Conservative dude , because he is a dumb lying hypocrite, screws up and forgets what is the first of the Ten Commandments! It takes the truly moral Jeb Bartlett to walk in and correct him, “I am the Lord thy God!”

    I remember nearly barfing at how ham-handed, unrealistic, and propagandist the scene was. Turns out the whole series was such lefty-fanatsy-land b.s.

    The hilarious part is when a good non-lefty debater (future Trump V.P. Ann Coulter) gets in a debate with a lefty and doesn’t follow their script. Their faces get twisted in pain as the cognitive dissonance hits their pressure, triggered amygdala. You can tell the lefties haven’t ever considered a non-lefty point of view or argued with an intelligent non-lefty evah. It’s like they finally discover that there is no Santa Claus.

  62. Marc says:

    Trump’s debating skills may not be fully known, but he has shown a verbal acumen on complicated policy matters in the past belying the intelligence of a man of his educational background and business accomplishment. Just because he is not an intellectual does not mean he isn’t intellectual.

    I expect him to know when to precisely tone down the bluster and speak to people at an above 3rd grade comprehension level. He held his own against someone with the extemporaneous speaking skill of a Ted Cruz, and should able hold his own in debates with a cold fish like Hillary.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    He held his own against someone with the extemporaneous speaking skill of a Ted Cruz, and should able hold his own in debates with a cold fish like Hillary.
     
    Debating is one-on-one. In the primaries, what we had was mass debating.

    And you know what excess mass debating can do to you.

    Cold fish require a different strategy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s
  63. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Leftist conservative

    Don’t go wobbly Steve.
     
    steve was never firm on trump

    Don’t go wobbly Steve.

    steve was never firm on trump

    I’m sure the following won’t make it through because of the moderator’s fragile ego. But here it goes.

    Sailer needs the world to continue spiral downward for his pessimistic prognostications. Also, Sailer is fueled by envy. Trump is able to say in one simple and entertaining sentence what guys like Sailer try to convey in pretentious and tediously-long essays where even then he is forced to use examples and reference other writers and ideas to make his point. Brevity is a masculine trait, Sailer! Lastly, Sailer is majorly envious of Trump for being ultra rich and having a super model wife and having golf courses around the world. Sailer can snipe at Trump for his “tacky taste” but Sailer would love to be Trump. Even for one day.

    • Disagree: Stephen R. Diamond
    • Replies: @Mark Eugenikos

    Sailer can snipe at Trump for his “tacky taste” but Sailer would love to be Trump. Even for one day.
     
    Dude, speak for yourself. Let Steve say, or not say, if he would want to be Trump.

    One thing's for sure: I and many others visiting this site have learned a lot from Steve over the years; I doubt anyone from this company (right side of the Bell curve) has learned much if anything from Trump, yet. Steve and Trump perform different functions and both are valuable in their spheres of influence. Steve has been educating relatively small HBD audience for decades, while Trump has reached much larger, and much more clueless, audiences, but only this past year. Those two audiences don't overlap much, but they do need each other.
    , @tomv
    What a jerk!

    Part of me wants to believe this guy is an anti-Alt Right troll, but our enemies aren't so subtle (see "Tiny Duck" above) and some on our side really are that crazy.
  64. I haven’t watched a “political debate” in the USA for any more than a few minutes since I was an adolescent. Just learning about them second-hand the next day is more than enough. I find them cringe-inducingly embarrassing.

    Even in my early adolescence the Nixon-Kennedy debates turned me off. I realized that the issues — Anyone remember Qemoy-Matsu and Kennedy’s absurd missile gap charge? — were stupid and ill argued and that points were scored purely on physical appearance. I also had a vague sense, even then in my socialist days, that Nixon was being set up. Things have degenerated badly since then. We’re not talking Oxford Union here. We’re not even within a parsec of Cooper Union or Lincoln-Douglas.

    With all that said, these debates are actually not a bad venue for Trump to demonstrate how much better a human being and a candidate he is than Hillary Clinton. I believe that the debates are his to lose. He will have to make a series of major blunders for that to happen. All Hillary has to do is display her usual self.in order to lose badly.

    All that said, and no matter how the debates really go, it is an easy prediction that every MSM pundit in the country will be booing Trump and giving Clinton accolades.

  65. @Truth
    Gentlemen, the following video is going to destroy your sense of self-identity.

    As you watch the following about America's #1 Alpha-Male(!) Please remember...

    SUICIDE IS PAINLESS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfA1Vm43yhg

    Truth, it is indeed sad to see you come to this. I watched the “video”. It’s 11 minutes of some dude with a funny accent rambling incoherently about… I am actually not sure what he rambled about.

    The only thing this video is going to destroy is any respect for your intelligence or common sense that the visitors of this site may have left. You really don’t need to go out of your way to embarrass yourself.

    • Replies: @Truth
    So Ivanna, Ivanka, and Melania look like ole' fashioned, organic women, to you?
  66. @JohnnyD
    Trump is definitely a poor debater. But he's selling a much better product than Hillary: border security, an American first foreign policy, better trade deals, etc. Hillary's globalism and politics of the fringes is a tough sell, even if Hillary was a charismatic speaker and sharp debater, which she most certainly isn't. Whenever Bernie makes a good point, Hillary literally starts shrieking and whining about sexism.

    Thing is he needs to explain those policies, for example why have a minimum wage if we crack down on illegal immigration boosting wages and lowering housing costs etc. He needs to make those logical leaps. I am concerned, in a way I wouldn’t be if say Kris Kobach were debating. He will be fine if he prepares, but if he takes the same approach he did to every debate but the last he will be in trouble. Debates are also a great opportunity for him to present himself without the negative filter of the media.

  67. Steve you have to be joking.

    Hillary is not a strong debater, she hasn’t even held a press conference in six months, refused to debate Bernie.

    She cannot handle a environment that is not controlled by her.

    Furthermore Hillary has been coddled her entire life and pretty much treated as royalty ever since Billy boy ascended to POTUS.

    She avoids FoxNews like the plague, she only goes on shows that kiss her ass.

    This isn’t a sign of a strong debater but a thin skinned prima donna prone to bouts of coughing when even mildly stressed.

    Bernie is much tougher. He’s old school and used to argue with O’Rielly all the time. Could you imagine princess Hillary doing that? No.

    Trump is as well.

    What Hillary does have on her side is this: The MSM and political establishment.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "She avoids FoxNews like the plague, she only goes on shows that kiss her ass."

    Hildabeast avoids The Fox News Channel like the plague, yet Donald Trump has no problem going into enemy territory the belly of the beast like CNN and MSNBC, where they think The Donald is worst than Bull Connor & Adolf Hitler combined.

    Hildabeast is chicken shit. She is a coward. She is easily intimidated by Fox News, than she will easily be a pushover who will get stepped over by everybody if she becomes POTUS. You can't send a weak woman to do a man's job.
  68. 1996 is two decades ago. The famous Clinton “triangulation” is a dead strategy cause she tied herself to the Coalition of the Fringes who take nothing but complete surrender to their demands as an answer.

    The coal mines moment was huge and unrecognized. “I’m going to put coal miners out of work” just lost her Appalachia, and her addendum sounded phony and panicked.

    How do you triangulate open borders? BLM? Rule of Law? You can’t. She’s going to try to and he’s going to rip her open.

  69. @whorefinder

    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump’s skin.
     
    She had that with Obama and Bernie too, and look how those have turned out.

    Look, she's not a good campaigner at all, and debates are just part of campaigning. She's basically riding the inevitable-woman-president thing meets it's-my-turn-i've-been-around-forever, combined with obamas-third-term. That's all stale ideas at this point, as is her act.

    This is “the thing,” for me. A year ago, I mentioned her warmongering – passion for incessant wars in the M.E.; wanting to continue American meddling in the hopeless M.E.; the arms deal that took place in Libya for the “rebels” in Syria (who are they exactly?) – her secrecy when it comes to M.E. policy; wanting to rev-up a new Cold War with Putin; and, of course, her, constant pandering to women; all “identity” groups. I mean, she did learn her lesson with WV men & women who didn’t buy her duplicity about what she will do for the middle class/working class/whatever. The millions made in speeches (Wall St. ties) just makes a mockery of her trying to relate to, what was it, “Everyday,” Americans. And Bernie, bless his heart, is pulling off all the Scooby Doo masks of every Dem in the country! Now, that has been entertaining…Dems are such a humorless, supercilious bunch.

    And, it is probably silly of me, but it still irritates me that Bill, the narcissist, thought he could just boff a young intern in the fracking Oval Office! It just annoys me to no end that H allowed her husband to cheat multiple times, defended his actions, criticized the “other” women…it does not seem like H is very loyal to women! Had she divorced Bill, run for Senator of NY, I think I would have a better opinion of her (I did vote for Bill) since I voted for Dems 1992-2012…I know…frack, sigh.

    Whatever pact they made to stay married is just too bizarre for me…and, I just can’t get over the audacity of doin’-it in the Oval Office, just disgraceful. MSM keeps harping like a bunch of prudes about Trump’s vulgarianism, but how does Bill getting a blow job in the OVAL OFFICE get a Hall Pass? – did they even parody the BJ in SNL, ever (my kids were babies so I never “made it” to late Saturday night TV…anyone know?

    I have to say, all this talk about a “1st woman president,” is so silly, and singularly American parochialism. When Tarja Halonen became Finland’s 1st president, it was no big deal. She looks an awful lot like Conan O’Brien; they did do some shows together about that resemblance, which was awesome! In fact, Halonen was pressured to marry her long-time live in, professory man (not the father of her daughter) because the Finnish Parliament members were concerned about how the Middle East leaders (fracking Arafat & those guys from those days) would be able to relate to her/respect her. True Story: at an important meeting in Helsinki decades ago; at a meeting where there were many Muslims, everyone foreign was aghast that in walks a female President and a female Secretary of Defense! Finnish has no word for gender! So funny – was not a fly on the wall, but would have loved it!

    My long-winded point is: How is an American female president assured that these massively misogynistic countries where females are subjugated, autocratic, theocratic, chauvinistic, princes, kings, dictators and mullahs, or whatever, will respect her and believe she has the correct vision for improving whatever needs improvement. The Nordic countries have already had female presidents, but when Thatcher was PM, the M.E. was not in the state of chaos ( and the Gulf State countries refuse to house the refugees) with no end in sight. All of the USA is sick of the M.E. – it is a nightmare like a cancer.

    Lastly, I want the conversation to steer back to IMMIGRATION when it is debate time, because it is at the root of the causes for the failure of many institutions/economies right now…and it will bring us all down.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Josh Barro wrote a post yesterday claiming Hillary was the "safe bet". I refuted it here, noting even The New Republic and The Nation have criticized her hawkish and incompetent foreign policy: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3979409-trump-ultimate-tail-risk-candidate

    I also pointed out the ludicrousness of painting Trump, who's been worried about nukes forever, as some nut out of Dr. Strangelove.
  70. NOTA says:
    @whorefinder

    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump’s skin.
     
    She had that with Obama and Bernie too, and look how those have turned out.

    Look, she's not a good campaigner at all, and debates are just part of campaigning. She's basically riding the inevitable-woman-president thing meets it's-my-turn-i've-been-around-forever, combined with obamas-third-term. That's all stale ideas at this point, as is her act.

    Yeah, Hillary’s actual credentials for the job are pretty good, but she’s not an especially gifted politician–she’s not a great speaker like Obama, she’s not automatically likable like Reagan, she doesn’t magically connect to people like her husband. She’s like another Nixon–not in the sense of Watergate, but in the sense of being someone whose quest to be president is uphill, because she doesn’t have a lot of natural talent for it. She’s like a mediocre athlete who works his ass off in practice and studies up on the game in his off hours, trying to make it to the pros on hard work and grit.

    By contrast, Trump’s credentials for the job are lousy–he’s never been in government, has little detailed knowledge of policy, doesn’t have an insiders understanding of the system. But he’s just oozing with natural talent at *getting* the job.

    • Replies: @whorefinder

    She’s like a mediocre athlete who works his ass off in practice and studies up on the game in his off hours, trying to make it to the pros on hard work and grit.
     
    Disagree on this bit. She hasn't worked her ass off or accomplished much; she rode her husband's coattails to a Senate seat that was secure once she won the D nomination --and she won that on pure name recognition/husband/wow factor of first lady jumping into the fray---and has failed upwards since then. Heck, if you count her time botching her husband's healthcare, she's failed upwards since then, too. She basically an insider who keeps using her connections to get pushed up but never accomplishes anything besides backroom politicking.

    By contrast, Trump’s credentials for the job are lousy–he’s never been in government, has little detailed knowledge of policy, doesn’t have an insiders understanding of the system. But he’s just oozing with natural talent at *getting* the job.
     
    Not lousy, just outsider. He's smart, his policy knowledge is on average of any pol at this stage in the race.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...

    Hillary’s actual credentials for the job are pretty good,
     
    Are you insane? She's been given a ridiculous number of chances to demonstrate her "talents" and she's screwed up every single time. I've seen and posted lists of her failures in various places. It's astonishing what she's gotten away with. I defy you to name one major accomplishment byHillary Clinton that has benefited the nation as a whole. Actually, I defy you to provide even one minor such accomplishment!
  71. NOTA says:
    @ziel
    When the debates got down to just him, Rubio, Cruz and Kasich, he appeared to struggle. He very skillfully brought up Kasich a few times in his responses to Cruz/Rubio so that Kasich would have 90 seconds to respond and give him some time to breathe after the onslaughts of the other two. Did he ever debate just Cruz and Kasich?

    If he actually is spending time going over policy points, that's good news, because a one-on-one debate is just non-stop policy discussions. As much as we all can't stand McCain, he was amazing with the policy stuff - and apparently would just wing it, because he was so familiar with all the issues. Like Steve pointed out, Donald just wings it too but he's not familiar with the details and traps, and it could be quite messy.

    What he will be good at is parrying her attacks. But if she lays off the attacks, other than to point out his knowledge shortfalls, he might crash and burn.

    In an off-the-cuff discussion of real estate deals, Trump would wipe the floor with almost anyone–he’s a genuine expert at that stuff, and he’s been doing it his whole adult life. McCain (and Hillary) are similar with federal policy issues–they’ve spent many decades living in that world, and they’re smart people, so they really know it backward and forward. Even if Trump had a lot of interest in detailed policy and politics (he shows no sign of such interest), it would be a real challenge for him to be prepared to come off well in that kind of discussion with Hillary.

  72. e says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    It's funny. All the liberals at my job think Hillary is a great debater and will demolish Trump in debates, nipping his fascist campaign for fascist walls in the fascist bud.

    I don't have any idea how it will fall out. Certainly, presidential debates are not high quality. They are a far cry from the Oxford Union, IQ2, or such. Borderline ridiculous.

    My guess is that Trump can't get up to speed on the issues fast enough because he isn't interested enough. On the other hand, Clinton is likely to be unable to capitalize on this due to the fact that she's relatively weak, interpersonally and intellectually. Her goal, whether she knows it or not, has to be to not turn off the entire electorate. So, as long as Trump can deflate/deflect the gotcha questions they will throw at him, it will be a wash.

    Hillary has a reputation for supporting Israel. If she gives him lip about his wall, he can turn to her and simply ask, “Why would you support Israel, give them your moral and financial support through your votes as a senator, take their lobbying money as a candidate running for senator of New York, let them use that money for their defense, which includes maintaining and patrolling their wall, yet deny that same support for citizens of your own country?

  73. @Lugash
    Don't go wobbly Steve.

    Trump has won every battle to this point, so lets remain optimistic. He doesn't even need to win on the debates, he just needs to have Hilary look old and tired onstage and have America listen to her shrill Midwest nasal dental drill of a voice.

    I think all the debates, campaign stops, TV ads etc. are irrelevant at this point. Everyone on our side had seen what the establishment has in store for us if they win. This election is really about these issues, not the frippery surrounding it.

    Will he win a debate ?
    Boy, and how.
    He will win like nobodys business.
    He will win SOOO YUGE.
    Conservatives don’t win anymore, but he is going to win like SO big.
    We are going to win again.

  74. Hillary’s problem in the debates is that she listens to no one, not even Bill Clinton, and her “experts” are mostly hacks and yes people. Who is going to tell her to soften up and be more likeable? Huma Abedin? Sid Blumenthal? Terry McAullife?

    Hillary might have some low level staffers with insight on how to gain the public nod over “She looks more Presidential than Trump” but how do said staffers get Hillary to listen and take advice?

    Hillary is who she is. She only has glided in on Bill Clinton’s coattails, and that’s it. On her own she’s an angry, man-hating Lesbian who is entitled, at least in public perception, which is why crazy Commie Bernie Sanders has done so well, and why Obama beat her like a drum in 2007-8.

    Trump’s luck — most of his opposition is a clown show that owes their position to hereditary nepotistic networks not ability and such. Think of Trump as Napoleon, and Hillary! and such as the Bourbons. Machiavelli reminds us that hereditary princes have an easy time taking power, but when faced with challenges often collapse because they have no real ability just birthright. While challengers have a hard time but have the advantage of ability — otherwise they would not challenge.

    As far as Straight White Men first and screw everyone else — Why Not? It is now Straight White men LAST (save those of hereditary nepotistic networks or great wealth like Bill Gates or Bill Clinton). So in a war of all against all, with no favor, quarter, or anything else given to Straight White Men I intend to fight my corner. I expect every Black, Hispanic, Asian etc. racial network to do whatever they can to marginalize and exclude people like me from every opportunity as that as what they have done in the past. Affirmative Action is merely anti-White male law codified into overt discrimination. As a Straight White Man I have no rights nor interest in the social arrangements of today.

    So I can hardly be expected to invest in something that screws me over constantly.

    Martin Luther King was undoubtedly the most stupid of the Civil Rights leaders — expecting Straight White Males to constantly be excluded from opportunity in an environment of constantly increasing economic growth and success shaming from elites. How does Neal Gabler get success shamed when he can’t scrape up $400?

    TL:DR — if non-Whites and women want my support and those like me, they have to DEAL ME INTO THE ACTION. I have to get a piece of the pie. They can’t kick me out of the restaurant and have me looking in the window while they eat the goodies and expect me to go along. Otherwise I figure that’s the game and the goal is to kick all of THEM OUT and eat it all myself.

  75. @NOTA
    Yeah, Hillary's actual credentials for the job are pretty good, but she's not an especially gifted politician--she's not a great speaker like Obama, she's not automatically likable like Reagan, she doesn't magically connect to people like her husband. She's like another Nixon--not in the sense of Watergate, but in the sense of being someone whose quest to be president is uphill, because she doesn't have a lot of natural talent for it. She's like a mediocre athlete who works his ass off in practice and studies up on the game in his off hours, trying to make it to the pros on hard work and grit.

    By contrast, Trump's credentials for the job are lousy--he's never been in government, has little detailed knowledge of policy, doesn't have an insiders understanding of the system. But he's just oozing with natural talent at *getting* the job.

    She’s like a mediocre athlete who works his ass off in practice and studies up on the game in his off hours, trying to make it to the pros on hard work and grit.

    Disagree on this bit. She hasn’t worked her ass off or accomplished much; she rode her husband’s coattails to a Senate seat that was secure once she won the D nomination –and she won that on pure name recognition/husband/wow factor of first lady jumping into the fray—and has failed upwards since then. Heck, if you count her time botching her husband’s healthcare, she’s failed upwards since then, too. She basically an insider who keeps using her connections to get pushed up but never accomplishes anything besides backroom politicking.

    By contrast, Trump’s credentials for the job are lousy–he’s never been in government, has little detailed knowledge of policy, doesn’t have an insiders understanding of the system. But he’s just oozing with natural talent at *getting* the job.

    Not lousy, just outsider. He’s smart, his policy knowledge is on average of any pol at this stage in the race.

  76. @Steve Richter
    The fact that he chickened out of the debate against Bernie was very troubling. A conservative interested in policy would love to debate a socialist. Ask how people whose labor is not worth $15 per hour are supposed to get a job. Ask about Venezuela and why socialism is failing there. Challenge Bernie to explain what the Baltimore and Ferguson police officers did wrong. Does Bernie support more section 8 housing in Vermont?

    Roger Stone said publicly what a bad idea it would be to debate Bernie because then he alienates the Bernie supporters who might otherwise vote for Trump IIRC. He was adamant it was a bad idea. So I think that may be behind why.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    If Trump were in second place in the GOP race, it would have been fun to debate the guy in second place in the Dem race. But with the GOP race locked up, it just lowers Trump's status by being on the same stage as the Democrat's #2.
    , @Lagertha
    - totally agree. 3 out of the 4 guys in my family are Bernie Bros, and, they do not care for the current Dem policies (or future ones/immigration, esp. H1B is a yuge point of contention) , so, would reluctantly, but logically, vote for Trump. Trump knows not to frack that up (Bernie Bros). This was definitely a trap, set up by the MSM, so, I am glad that Trump saw that trap.
  77. @Lagertha
    This is "the thing," for me. A year ago, I mentioned her warmongering - passion for incessant wars in the M.E.; wanting to continue American meddling in the hopeless M.E.; the arms deal that took place in Libya for the "rebels" in Syria (who are they exactly?) - her secrecy when it comes to M.E. policy; wanting to rev-up a new Cold War with Putin; and, of course, her, constant pandering to women; all "identity" groups. I mean, she did learn her lesson with WV men & women who didn't buy her duplicity about what she will do for the middle class/working class/whatever. The millions made in speeches (Wall St. ties) just makes a mockery of her trying to relate to, what was it, "Everyday," Americans. And Bernie, bless his heart, is pulling off all the Scooby Doo masks of every Dem in the country! Now, that has been entertaining...Dems are such a humorless, supercilious bunch.

    And, it is probably silly of me, but it still irritates me that Bill, the narcissist, thought he could just boff a young intern in the fracking Oval Office! It just annoys me to no end that H allowed her husband to cheat multiple times, defended his actions, criticized the "other" women...it does not seem like H is very loyal to women! Had she divorced Bill, run for Senator of NY, I think I would have a better opinion of her (I did vote for Bill) since I voted for Dems 1992-2012...I know...frack, sigh.

    Whatever pact they made to stay married is just too bizarre for me...and, I just can't get over the audacity of doin'-it in the Oval Office, just disgraceful. MSM keeps harping like a bunch of prudes about Trump's vulgarianism, but how does Bill getting a blow job in the OVAL OFFICE get a Hall Pass? - did they even parody the BJ in SNL, ever (my kids were babies so I never "made it" to late Saturday night TV...anyone know?

    I have to say, all this talk about a "1st woman president," is so silly, and singularly American parochialism. When Tarja Halonen became Finland's 1st president, it was no big deal. She looks an awful lot like Conan O'Brien; they did do some shows together about that resemblance, which was awesome! In fact, Halonen was pressured to marry her long-time live in, professory man (not the father of her daughter) because the Finnish Parliament members were concerned about how the Middle East leaders (fracking Arafat & those guys from those days) would be able to relate to her/respect her. True Story: at an important meeting in Helsinki decades ago; at a meeting where there were many Muslims, everyone foreign was aghast that in walks a female President and a female Secretary of Defense! Finnish has no word for gender! So funny - was not a fly on the wall, but would have loved it!

    My long-winded point is: How is an American female president assured that these massively misogynistic countries where females are subjugated, autocratic, theocratic, chauvinistic, princes, kings, dictators and mullahs, or whatever, will respect her and believe she has the correct vision for improving whatever needs improvement. The Nordic countries have already had female presidents, but when Thatcher was PM, the M.E. was not in the state of chaos ( and the Gulf State countries refuse to house the refugees) with no end in sight. All of the USA is sick of the M.E. - it is a nightmare like a cancer.

    Lastly, I want the conversation to steer back to IMMIGRATION when it is debate time, because it is at the root of the causes for the failure of many institutions/economies right now...and it will bring us all down.

    Josh Barro wrote a post yesterday claiming Hillary was the “safe bet”. I refuted it here, noting even The New Republic and The Nation have criticized her hawkish and incompetent foreign policy: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3979409-trump-ultimate-tail-risk-candidate

    I also pointed out the ludicrousness of painting Trump, who’s been worried about nukes forever, as some nut out of Dr. Strangelove.

    • Replies: @rod1963
    Hillary is a disaster and hates this country.

    Look at what she supports:
    Amnesty
    Open borders
    Gun confiscation
    Killing off Coal and industries that use coal
    TPP
    Anti-White

    There won't be a U.S. left after 4 years.


    And worse she's a rabid Neo-Con
    , @Vendetta
    Ctrl+F for Libya...
    http://time.com/4355797/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-foreign-policy-speech-transcript/

    https://twitter.com/Vendetta92429/status/738453376313221120
    , @Lagertha
    Both Trump & Clinton know that nukes are overkill...so, to me this whole "dick-tease" about "having a finger on the nuclear football," is just showboating. They both need to move beyond a "Hollywood Disaster Movie. " For fun tonight, re-live the dialogue of 'True Lies'; particularly, the lines by the villains...this is pre-PC Hollywood as far as stereotypes! - and, you've got Aaahnuld!

    Trump & Clinton & Bernie need to state what they believe is a rational scenario in dealing with not only the Migrant Crisis, but WTF do we do with: present state of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia & Co., Libya, Turkey, Yemen, North and Central Africa countries (?), etc., etc., etc. - all the countries that cause so much misery in the world.

  78. @Dave Pinsen
    Josh Barro wrote a post yesterday claiming Hillary was the "safe bet". I refuted it here, noting even The New Republic and The Nation have criticized her hawkish and incompetent foreign policy: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3979409-trump-ultimate-tail-risk-candidate

    I also pointed out the ludicrousness of painting Trump, who's been worried about nukes forever, as some nut out of Dr. Strangelove.

    Hillary is a disaster and hates this country.

    Look at what she supports:
    Amnesty
    Open borders
    Gun confiscation
    Killing off Coal and industries that use coal
    TPP
    Anti-White

    There won’t be a U.S. left after 4 years.

    And worse she’s a rabid Neo-Con

  79. The debate is the only thing I’m looking forward to in this election. It’ll be a mutual massacre. Neither of them can take an insult, of which there will be plenty. The country will be ungovernable by either – which is a good thing.

    I don’t know why the left doesn’t call for an active boycott of the election. In fact, I’m going to try to propose it.

  80. @TipTipTopKek
    Everybody reading (and writing) here should know that the "debates" aren't really DEBATES, and haven't been since the League of Women Voters ran the things. Rhetoric vs Dialectic, sound bites, and zingers rule the roost. Also, expect a hostile (to TRUMP, not to Clinton) so-called "moderator."

    So we should recalibrate any ideas we have about exactly what a "good debater" means in this context. Someone, I think "dudarino," said something about Trump reviewing policy details, and I kek'ed. Policy is NEVER the focus of these debates, again, not since the League handled them. Nowadays the only time policy is used is as a "gotcha" with an oddly specific question (Name the third-largest city in Libya. You can't? You're unqualified!), and Trump has faced enough of these traps to know to do what Clinton, Elderbush, etc., all do, ignore the question and ramble on about some unrelated policy point that they want to stress. WIN!

    For an example of winning a "debate," remember when Juan Ellis Bush said that his mom "was the strongest person I know" and Trump responded, "She should be running."? THAT is what passes for "debate" in this context, and this is the kind of thing that Trump excels at.

    And, keep in mind that Trump has been facing hostile moderators at these events and hostile press in interviews since his announcement, whereas Clinton has been facing a friendly press that treats her with kid gloves and has its questions screened by her staff. When Clinton has to face and respond to a hostile and intelligent adversary like Trump, it is SHE who will be in unfamiliar territory.

    Clinton's gonna get schlonged.

    In hindsight Jeb Bush left a massive opening there. No one wants a mamma’s boy as POTUS. Trump ‘went there’ and exploited the opening to devastating effect.

    In this debate there will be no “The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails.”. Eye rollling and pleading the 5th is not going to cut it. The beauty of Hillary is that she leaves herself open to so many canned zingers Trump can preplan to include, in addition to the off the cuff remarks he has proven to be superb at coming up with.

    Perhaps he loses on policy (I doubt it) or says something wrong or fails to know some minor detail. But Trump will do more damage. Hillary’s weaknesses will be exposed as presidential deal breakers, red flags that indicate one should be profoundly uncomfortable about pulling the lever for her.

    Hillary is liable to mention her XX chromosome. It may be a reason some would vote for her but this is the sort of tangential quality a candidate should never, ever personally talk about – it damns themselves with faint praise. Like that candidate (Edwards?) who thought mentioning how good his hair was. Yes, women might have said the same thing about Bill but he would have never put on the table himself as it looks so weak and desperate.

  81. @Jack Hanson
    Steve once again makes appeals about the power of the same "experts" that haven't been able to stump the Trump for almost a year now.

    Steve, how many articles about Jeb or Rubio losing the election gracefully did you have to scrap? Be honest.

    It's also worth noting that supposed master debater Cruz lost to Trump as well. Hillary is absolutely miserable in front of a podium (6pm debates on a Saturday night to ensure her coronation help bear out that the Dems know this as well).

    The press still thinks this is Kennedy and Nixon debating the missile gap and Quemoy-Matsu or some such high-fallutin’ BS that makes them out to be Serious People talking about What Matters. Trump knows that this is reality TV.

    I’d bet dollars to donuts that not one Trump voter in 100 could state any position of his other than immigration, but they don’t care. Trump cares about America. He may yet screw us, but it is a certainty that Rs and Ds will.

    Trump 60 – 40 popular vote. 320 electoral.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Exactly, which is why you get posts like this by Steve assuming everyone is a SoCal OC wonk who thinks knowing the 3rd largest city in Libya means Hillary is a serious candidate (ignoring the wrecks she has left behind as SoS).

    "She left them to die" holds much more rhetorical weight than her poorly defending her record with appeals to wonks.
  82. @Dave Pinsen
    Josh Barro wrote a post yesterday claiming Hillary was the "safe bet". I refuted it here, noting even The New Republic and The Nation have criticized her hawkish and incompetent foreign policy: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3979409-trump-ultimate-tail-risk-candidate

    I also pointed out the ludicrousness of painting Trump, who's been worried about nukes forever, as some nut out of Dr. Strangelove.
  83. @Das
    I think Trump has made it clear that he's going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.

    It could work spectacularly, particularly because a lot of voters were children back in the 90s, and will be hearing all that stuff for the first time.

    It could backfire and give Clinton the sympathy vote.

    I think Trump has made it clear that he’s going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.

    If it’s all about that–Trump loses.

    Bill Clinton isn’t running. Some of this comes out as “she stuck by her cheating man”. Re She’s vulnerable as an enabler\enforcer on other pieces–Juanita Broaderick. But that’s a tough sell.

    For Trump to win he needs to make this about immigration, or more broadly the incredibly shitty future that the establishment–people like Hillary–have in store for American citizens as they strip our citizenship of meaning.

    — Jobs \ unemployment — particularly hitting America’s low skilled (minority)
    — Reduced wages
    — The coming robot revolution — mass unemployment
    — Skyrocketing welfare
    — Reduced prosperity
    — Crappier schools
    — Bilingualism
    — Expensive housing … especially to find it in neighborhoods with “good schools”
    — Section 8
    — Bilingualism
    — Loss of social cohesion, balkanization
    — Terrorism
    — Crowding sprawl traffic
    — Environment degradation, loss of open space
    — 500 million people around the world would like to come here.
    — Total US population?–ask Hillary to pick a number 500,000,000? 1 billion. Where does “immigration” end? Packed in like India or China?

    What the establishment is doing to us is just … shit! They are trashing the precious value of being an American. And Hillary is a cheerleader for it all.

    Trump has 10 or 20 good lines of attack. He needs to attack. Make it clear to people the shit Hillary is peddling. And tell folks point blank, that if elected he’s going to work his ass off to put a stop to it. Make it clear American’s future–and particularly their children and grandchildren’s future will be much worse unless he’s elected to stop it.

    Do that–Trump wins. Failure to do that–he’s just some noisy ass, real estate\reality TV blowhard and Hillary is president.

    • Agree: Mike Sylwester
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    I think one further point Trump should push on as hard as he can is being tough on crime. He could present himself as Giuliani writ large.

    The virtue of pushing for this is that it paints Hillary into a corner with regard to BLM and the whole Ferguson-Baltimore-Chicago mess. She has already come out in favor of the crazy Obama Justice "reforms" that act as if the police are nothing but contemptible racists killing black babies. She simply can't back away from this position without both flip-flopping and, worse, repelling every progressive in the real world and in the media.

    And that position is, I'm sure, tremendously unpopular in the real world of normal voters.

    With immigration, Hillary can always bring up the Dreamer argument, and take out the immigration violins. It's not much of a response, of course, but it might blunt Trump's immigration attack at least a bit.

    I just don't see, though, how Hillary gets up and defends, say, Michael Brown to any normal voter. It's a slam dunk for Trump, and it's always good to have a slam dunk in politics.

    , @Jack Hanson
    There's a decent argument to be made that Trump is purposefully focusing on the scandals to keep her off camber and waiting for the debates to nail her to the wall on policy.

    Trump seems to get that the media is (poorly) carrying her water, and will ignore or refuse to report any substantiative hits he makes while burnishing her comments. If his strategy is to get her to admit that the US is open to anyone who wants to come and state she favors amnesty and open borders, she loses with anyone who isnt an SJW loon. The next forever of media cycles will be her and the media trying to badly triangulate what she "really" meant for the part of America that isn't insane, and it'll only make her look worst.
  84. @Prof. Woland
    Agreed, and the way to do it is to talk about race. Make Hillary defend the absolute worst behavior of BLM or LaRaza and she will be cooked. Same thing with sex. Make her defend her surrogates in the press's attacks on Trump and then turn it around towards Bill Clinton. My guess is that Trump can go a lot more places and say a lot more things than can Hillary. That's the territory Trump wants to own.

    Right. And very few people have heard about the Lolita Express, how Hillary made $20 million making speeches, the millenials were not even born when BJC was banging Monica, everybody understands email hacking, etc. And Trump will tell the “impartial” journalist moderators to STFU if they step out of line. It’s gonna be great.

  85. @whorefinder
    It's really all about the zingers and quips. Trump treated the debates as competitive roasts only there to judge who got the best zingers in- which he was totally right about. It wasn't a traditional collegiate or H.S. debate with rules---it was more akin to that black National Debate team's "debates." And this will be, too.

    Trump gets that decorum and stuffy old rules are out. It's not a win-on-points thing. Because this is a street fight. This is TV in primetime. This is his wheelhouse.

    The audience will be salivating for him to do it to Crooked Hillary---even her supporters will be hyperventilating looking for his quips. Hillary obviously thinks he will do it to her--and she's probably ( and stupidly) either lining up her own "zingers" (which will fall flat---like Rubio's did), or else going to play the "Trump is a mean mean bully card" (also will fail---in one of her first debates when she first ran for Senate in NY, the token Republican dude came over and got in her personal space, and her campaign said it was something about "male domination" and it fell flat as an attack).

    Look, his opening lines are potentially mic-dropping in its hilarity and its truth:

    "See this woman over here? I paid her to come to my son's wedding. And she came. She does what her paymasters tell her. Me? I can't be bought. I'm worth billions; she's worth whatever access you buy with her. You can have a crooked, bought candidate, or you can have a guy who can't be bought, and who wins. And America loves a winner."

    BOOM.

    P.S. it's also gonna be great when he interrupts her and talks over her. She's got a rep as a person who gets very angry when she gets ambushed or has to go off script. She's used to total deference from her staff. Trump is probably planning on interrupting her at key moments to set her off. She'll either get visibly angry--at which case he'll harp on her temperament--or do some fake laughing bit to cover her anger, which will be endlessly mocked by Trump's guys. And if she's drinking before the debate---as she is a rumored heavy drinker.....

    I am so looking forward to Hillary arguing with the first blunt, high-IQ, good-looking, white Ivy League schooled alpha man she’s ever encountered on his terms, not hers.

    And on national TV.

    Still, I won’t watch it. Presidential “debates” are another debased ritual of the American polity. They started dying in the fall of 1960 and never recovered. Thanks, Joe Kennedy. Hope hell is run by Roundheads.

    http://weeklyworldnews.com/opinion/ed-anger/6916/ed-anger-says-i-hate-the-irish/

    😀

    For those who didn’t get your reference to the black debate team from Towson State that was declared national champions–finishing what the Big Three networks started–here youse go:

    http://downtrend.com/71superb/black-debate-team-wins-national-championship-with-gratuitous-use-of-the-n-word

  86. @out of Macon
    Trump will have Hillary stuttering just like he has Obama stuttering. She will probably run to the bathroom.

    out of Macon said, “Trump will have Hillary stuttering just like he has Obama stuttering. She will probably run to the bathroom. stuttering just like he has Obama stuttering.”

    For a drink

  87. @AnotherDad

    I think Trump has made it clear that he’s going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.
     
    If it's all about that--Trump loses.

    Bill Clinton isn't running. Some of this comes out as "she stuck by her cheating man". Re She's vulnerable as an enabler\enforcer on other pieces--Juanita Broaderick. But that's a tough sell.

    For Trump to win he needs to make this about immigration, or more broadly the incredibly shitty future that the establishment--people like Hillary--have in store for American citizens as they strip our citizenship of meaning.

    -- Jobs \ unemployment -- particularly hitting America's low skilled (minority)
    -- Reduced wages
    -- The coming robot revolution -- mass unemployment
    -- Skyrocketing welfare
    -- Reduced prosperity
    -- Crappier schools
    -- Bilingualism
    -- Expensive housing ... especially to find it in neighborhoods with "good schools"
    -- Section 8
    -- Bilingualism
    -- Loss of social cohesion, balkanization
    -- Terrorism
    -- Crowding sprawl traffic
    -- Environment degradation, loss of open space
    -- 500 million people around the world would like to come here.
    -- Total US population?--ask Hillary to pick a number 500,000,000? 1 billion. Where does "immigration" end? Packed in like India or China?

    What the establishment is doing to us is just ... shit! They are trashing the precious value of being an American. And Hillary is a cheerleader for it all.

    Trump has 10 or 20 good lines of attack. He needs to attack. Make it clear to people the shit Hillary is peddling. And tell folks point blank, that if elected he's going to work his ass off to put a stop to it. Make it clear American's future--and particularly their children and grandchildren's future will be much worse unless he's elected to stop it.

    Do that--Trump wins. Failure to do that--he's just some noisy ass, real estate\reality TV blowhard and Hillary is president.

    I think one further point Trump should push on as hard as he can is being tough on crime. He could present himself as Giuliani writ large.

    The virtue of pushing for this is that it paints Hillary into a corner with regard to BLM and the whole Ferguson-Baltimore-Chicago mess. She has already come out in favor of the crazy Obama Justice “reforms” that act as if the police are nothing but contemptible racists killing black babies. She simply can’t back away from this position without both flip-flopping and, worse, repelling every progressive in the real world and in the media.

    And that position is, I’m sure, tremendously unpopular in the real world of normal voters.

    With immigration, Hillary can always bring up the Dreamer argument, and take out the immigration violins. It’s not much of a response, of course, but it might blunt Trump’s immigration attack at least a bit.

    I just don’t see, though, how Hillary gets up and defends, say, Michael Brown to any normal voter. It’s a slam dunk for Trump, and it’s always good to have a slam dunk in politics.

  88. @utu
    "Trump thinking out loud, and pretty successfully, about that poor gorilla"

    Pretty successfully because he was not under the stress. But he can be very easily upset. He has a very thin skin. Hillary must get him to the point where Trump will be just calling names and repeating himself.

    He has a very thin skin.

    Trump is definitely a BSD alpha male, but he is a very weird and sensitive one.

    One thing struck me right away–you get in a pissing match with Megan Kelly. She’s nothing. Part of being a big man is having fights with other *big men*. You don’t lower yourself to squabble with the riff-raff way down in the pecking order.

    And yeah, sometimes he seems hyper-sensitize to criticism. Another aspect of being a bigman … you’re big, you can just dismiss nonsense, bullshit with the wave of the hand. Call it bullcrap–“these guys are idiots and just don’t know what they are talking about”. And you should be able to laugh at yourself. You’re big, every little attempted cut, isn’t even worth your time.

    • Replies: @rod1963
    Big men aren't punching bags.

    Remember unlike the Bushes or Clintons, he doesn't have the MSM in his corner to protect him. He's made himself the enemy of the entire Western establishment from Brussels to D.C. and everything in between.

    He has to punch back.

    And oh, there are no big men for him to fight. Even Obama is no more than a skinny mulatto AA case who can't talk without a teleprompter.

    Hillary is nothing more than a bloated, failed lawyer, crook and bribe taker who is afraid to hold press conference.

    He beat down the elite of the GOP like hey were curs in the primary. Including McCain, the Bush family and Romney.

    One other thing. He's also shown that the establishment is really composed of a bunch dim bulbs with Ivy League degrees. The fact that all the cool kids couldn't stop shows exactly how incompetent they truly are.

    , @Kyle a
    She was nothing other than another media attacking him unfairly. He should have slammed her harder. Put peon in their place and they suddenly become supporters.
  89. @AnotherDad

    I think Trump has made it clear that he’s going to make the debates mostly about Vince Foster, Juanita Broaddrick, Clinton Body Count type stuff.
     
    If it's all about that--Trump loses.

    Bill Clinton isn't running. Some of this comes out as "she stuck by her cheating man". Re She's vulnerable as an enabler\enforcer on other pieces--Juanita Broaderick. But that's a tough sell.

    For Trump to win he needs to make this about immigration, or more broadly the incredibly shitty future that the establishment--people like Hillary--have in store for American citizens as they strip our citizenship of meaning.

    -- Jobs \ unemployment -- particularly hitting America's low skilled (minority)
    -- Reduced wages
    -- The coming robot revolution -- mass unemployment
    -- Skyrocketing welfare
    -- Reduced prosperity
    -- Crappier schools
    -- Bilingualism
    -- Expensive housing ... especially to find it in neighborhoods with "good schools"
    -- Section 8
    -- Bilingualism
    -- Loss of social cohesion, balkanization
    -- Terrorism
    -- Crowding sprawl traffic
    -- Environment degradation, loss of open space
    -- 500 million people around the world would like to come here.
    -- Total US population?--ask Hillary to pick a number 500,000,000? 1 billion. Where does "immigration" end? Packed in like India or China?

    What the establishment is doing to us is just ... shit! They are trashing the precious value of being an American. And Hillary is a cheerleader for it all.

    Trump has 10 or 20 good lines of attack. He needs to attack. Make it clear to people the shit Hillary is peddling. And tell folks point blank, that if elected he's going to work his ass off to put a stop to it. Make it clear American's future--and particularly their children and grandchildren's future will be much worse unless he's elected to stop it.

    Do that--Trump wins. Failure to do that--he's just some noisy ass, real estate\reality TV blowhard and Hillary is president.

    There’s a decent argument to be made that Trump is purposefully focusing on the scandals to keep her off camber and waiting for the debates to nail her to the wall on policy.

    Trump seems to get that the media is (poorly) carrying her water, and will ignore or refuse to report any substantiative hits he makes while burnishing her comments. If his strategy is to get her to admit that the US is open to anyone who wants to come and state she favors amnesty and open borders, she loses with anyone who isnt an SJW loon. The next forever of media cycles will be her and the media trying to badly triangulate what she “really” meant for the part of America that isn’t insane, and it’ll only make her look worst.

  90. @AnotherDad

    He has a very thin skin.
     
    Trump is definitely a BSD alpha male, but he is a very weird and sensitive one.

    One thing struck me right away--you get in a pissing match with Megan Kelly. She's nothing. Part of being a big man is having fights with other *big men*. You don't lower yourself to squabble with the riff-raff way down in the pecking order.

    And yeah, sometimes he seems hyper-sensitize to criticism. Another aspect of being a bigman ... you're big, you can just dismiss nonsense, bullshit with the wave of the hand. Call it bullcrap--"these guys are idiots and just don't know what they are talking about". And you should be able to laugh at yourself. You're big, every little attempted cut, isn't even worth your time.

    Big men aren’t punching bags.

    Remember unlike the Bushes or Clintons, he doesn’t have the MSM in his corner to protect him. He’s made himself the enemy of the entire Western establishment from Brussels to D.C. and everything in between.

    He has to punch back.

    And oh, there are no big men for him to fight. Even Obama is no more than a skinny mulatto AA case who can’t talk without a teleprompter.

    Hillary is nothing more than a bloated, failed lawyer, crook and bribe taker who is afraid to hold press conference.

    He beat down the elite of the GOP like hey were curs in the primary. Including McCain, the Bush family and Romney.

    One other thing. He’s also shown that the establishment is really composed of a bunch dim bulbs with Ivy League degrees. The fact that all the cool kids couldn’t stop shows exactly how incompetent they truly are.

  91. Steve. Don’t come across as a Hillary apologists. Not that you did, but some here turned on you with this post unfairly. Lol

  92. @AnotherDad

    He has a very thin skin.
     
    Trump is definitely a BSD alpha male, but he is a very weird and sensitive one.

    One thing struck me right away--you get in a pissing match with Megan Kelly. She's nothing. Part of being a big man is having fights with other *big men*. You don't lower yourself to squabble with the riff-raff way down in the pecking order.

    And yeah, sometimes he seems hyper-sensitize to criticism. Another aspect of being a bigman ... you're big, you can just dismiss nonsense, bullshit with the wave of the hand. Call it bullcrap--"these guys are idiots and just don't know what they are talking about". And you should be able to laugh at yourself. You're big, every little attempted cut, isn't even worth your time.

    She was nothing other than another media attacking him unfairly. He should have slammed her harder. Put peon in their place and they suddenly become supporters.

  93. Hillary has gone on the attack– says Trump is hot but out of shape… I think. As a Trumpkin, I’m not sure about these words tempermentally and unfit…

  94. e says:
    @JsP
    Where have you been?

    The ENTIRE GOP had those things too. And they got thrashed.


    Hillary's a garbage candidate running a garbage campaign.


    So far her "experts" have come up with ideas like calling her opponent "poor Donald"--an idea so comically awful it beggars belief.


    You're living in some kind of weird boomer bubble where you think there are " experts " who aren't completely incompetent. They're just dumb as hell and don't know what they're talking about. It's that simple.

    Same applies to the other side--its hard to imagine a nonexpert being as wrong as people like Karl Rove and Bill kristol.


    There are no evil geniuses behind the scenes or Hillary wouldn't have been wrecked by Obama and embarrassed by Bernie Sanders of all people. they're evil alright--but calling them little Eichmanns would be an insult to the latter's intelligence.

    MSM will ask the traditional questions at a Presidential debate and Hillary will do well because she can say, “When I met with the Prime Minister last year, he and I talked about X,Y,and Z” which is sadly what many voters think will make for a good POTUS.

    I think the only time Clinton sounds decent is when she IS on a debate stage. She’s horrid on the stump.

  95. @Anonym
    Roger Stone said publicly what a bad idea it would be to debate Bernie because then he alienates the Bernie supporters who might otherwise vote for Trump IIRC. He was adamant it was a bad idea. So I think that may be behind why.

    If Trump were in second place in the GOP race, it would have been fun to debate the guy in second place in the Dem race. But with the GOP race locked up, it just lowers Trump’s status by being on the same stage as the Democrat’s #2.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    One wild card would be if Sanders runs third party and demands to be allowed into the debates (a la Perot in 1992). Three candidates on stage with a combined total of 214 yrs in age. Not quite Noah, much less Methuseleh, but getting up there.
    , @Anonym
    If Trump were in second place in the GOP race, it would have been fun to debate the guy in second place in the Dem race. But with the GOP race locked up, it just lowers Trump’s status by being on the same stage as the Democrat’s #2.

    That's the argument that Trump advances, and I agree with that as well.
  96. @CAL
    Hillary had to be dragged into debating Sanders. I think her health is such that physically she can barely do the debates. Trump may end up repeating nonsense while Hillary collapses onstage. I would be surprised if there ends up being more than one or two debates.

    She has admitted to a “slight” incontinence problem, at least, which keeps her running off the stage at commercial breaks. Her health concerns should really be a bigger issue in this campaign, given how it affects fitness for office, but reporters mostly play Sergeant O’Hara- “Move along now folks, nuthin’ ta see here!“.

    If Mrs. Clinton can stay on her prepackaged talking points, she will be in great shape, but she seems easily rattled by personal insults, and Mr. Trump isn’t afraid to throw out some very cutting ones. Donald Trump, on the other hand, has an ironclad ego which, although sometimes petty, doesn’t get emotionally perturbed by personal attacks, but has trouble sticking to lucid, well-prepared responses.

    One upshot is that Trump’s disadvantages are easier to train for than Clinton’s. If Mr. Trump spends enough hours in tough debate prep, he can probably learn to put a leash on his motor-mouth. Mrs. Clinton, on the other hand, will have trouble practicing for the kinds of emotional daggers that will be coming across the stage.

  97. @Jim Don Bob
    The press still thinks this is Kennedy and Nixon debating the missile gap and Quemoy-Matsu or some such high-fallutin' BS that makes them out to be Serious People talking about What Matters. Trump knows that this is reality TV.

    I'd bet dollars to donuts that not one Trump voter in 100 could state any position of his other than immigration, but they don't care. Trump cares about America. He may yet screw us, but it is a certainty that Rs and Ds will.

    Trump 60 - 40 popular vote. 320 electoral.

    Exactly, which is why you get posts like this by Steve assuming everyone is a SoCal OC wonk who thinks knowing the 3rd largest city in Libya means Hillary is a serious candidate (ignoring the wrecks she has left behind as SoS).

    “She left them to die” holds much more rhetorical weight than her poorly defending her record with appeals to wonks.

  98. Hey Steve. Something is messed up with the html on the margarine post. New comments don’t work and the formatting is messed up.

  99. Das says:

    There’s some wild underestimation of Hillary Clinton in these quarters. She’s beatable, but she’s not someone who is going to collapse under the slightest bit of scrutiny.

    Most of the public remembers the 90s Clinton years very fondly. Obama’s approval ratings are above 50%. All Hillary has to do is bring out the “Obama coalition” for a third time, and she’ll win.

    Trump is a high-variance candidate. His gambits might shake up the political map and create a new “Trump coalition” that can win a majority in a presidential election. But they might end up backfiring. It’s too soon to tell.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    "A Census report on the 2012 election finds that blacks were more likely to vote than whites for the first time. The number of white voters declined by more than 2 million, another first."

    [ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/08/2012-election-voting-rates-blacks-whites-hispanics/2144571/ ]

    What are the chances that those firsts would be replicated in a November election between Clinton and Trump? What are the chances that Blacks would give Clinton 95% of their votes, in November, as they did for Obama, in 2012? How many men would vote for Clinton, just to prove that they are not sexist, the way that many Whites voted for Obama, in 2008, to prove that they were not racist?
  100. @Jus' Sayin'...
    You are clearly not native to the USA. That smarmy, faux-working-class-Brit-accent on the voice-over is viscerally offensive to American ears and guarantees that many listeners will try to vote in a way that annoys its source. Also, there are two kinds of Brit humor: Monty Pythonesque which has broad appeal and the type that is exuded by fruity Labor Party types and the highly unpopular Colbert wannabes that the Beeb keeps shipping over here. The "humor" displayed in your clip is of the latter type and holds little appeal for those in this country who are not politically deranged.

    Center shot. And I can still hear the reverberations of the arrow. Nicely Done JS!

  101. @Anonymous


    Don’t go wobbly Steve.
     
    steve was never firm on trump
     
    I'm sure the following won't make it through because of the moderator's fragile ego. But here it goes.

    Sailer needs the world to continue spiral downward for his pessimistic prognostications. Also, Sailer is fueled by envy. Trump is able to say in one simple and entertaining sentence what guys like Sailer try to convey in pretentious and tediously-long essays where even then he is forced to use examples and reference other writers and ideas to make his point. Brevity is a masculine trait, Sailer! Lastly, Sailer is majorly envious of Trump for being ultra rich and having a super model wife and having golf courses around the world. Sailer can snipe at Trump for his "tacky taste" but Sailer would love to be Trump. Even for one day.

    Sailer can snipe at Trump for his “tacky taste” but Sailer would love to be Trump. Even for one day.

    Dude, speak for yourself. Let Steve say, or not say, if he would want to be Trump.

    One thing’s for sure: I and many others visiting this site have learned a lot from Steve over the years; I doubt anyone from this company (right side of the Bell curve) has learned much if anything from Trump, yet. Steve and Trump perform different functions and both are valuable in their spheres of influence. Steve has been educating relatively small HBD audience for decades, while Trump has reached much larger, and much more clueless, audiences, but only this past year. Those two audiences don’t overlap much, but they do need each other.

    • Replies: @Truth
    "Steve has been educating relatively small HBD audience for decades, while Trump has reached much larger, and much more clueless, audiences, but only this past year."

    You can't tell a dude from a chick, but someone else is "clueless?"
  102. Most millionaires prefer Hildabeast over Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders.
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/11/millionaire-voters-back-hillary-over-trump.html

    Hildabeast is the whore of Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Hollywood, so I am not surprised.

    Yet the mainstream dishonestly paints Hildabeast as someone who will ride or die for Main Street.

  103. @Jack Hanson
    Trump isn't even debating Obama and he's inside of his OODA loop. Master Debater Obama couldn't even formulate a response to Trump and he's had months to prepare a kill shot and what happens?

    He stammers and sputters and can't formulate a thought.

    But "muh experts!"

    Image is everything. TV is about images. All it would take is for Hillary during a lengthy response to go into a coughing fit for several seconds (which appear to be a very long time in TVland) and Trump’s point is made: Look at her, she doesn’t even have the stamina to finish a sentence without appearing old, worn out, tired, etc.

    Al Gore’s perpetual sighs in the ’00 debates are still talked about. Just one coughing fit is all it would take for Hillary to be finished. One major coughing fit, live, and for several seconds. It wouldn’t look very good for her.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    All it would take is Trump walking over with a glass of water and asking if she's okay.
  104. Trump is almost certainly going to get demolished in the debates. Pretty much every one-on-one exchange he had in the primary debates with someone not named Jeb Bush, he lost (the only exception I can recall was the “New York values” exchange with Cruz). With Clinton, Trump is going to have to debate foreign policy in detail for 90 minutes, one-on-one. At best, that will be like his nuclear triad answer stretched out over 45 minutes. He was able to bluster and BS his way through the GOP debates, because the time was divided among a crowd of candidates who were usually more focused on attacking each other than him. But when Rubio finally challenged him to say something specific, he was unable to do so and looked like a fool.

    However, if he bothers to study and become less ignorant, it’s possible that Trump could benefit from debating Clinton, in the same way that Sarah Palin did from debating Biden: Expectations for her were so low, that when she turned in a decent performance, she got a significant boost in the polls, even although viewers judged Biden the technical winner. However, Trump’s supporters apparently aren’t smart enough to lower expectations for him (or they can’t bring themselves to disparage the object of their personality cult, even when it would be to his long-term benefit).

  105. @Steve Sailer
    If Trump were in second place in the GOP race, it would have been fun to debate the guy in second place in the Dem race. But with the GOP race locked up, it just lowers Trump's status by being on the same stage as the Democrat's #2.

    One wild card would be if Sanders runs third party and demands to be allowed into the debates (a la Perot in 1992). Three candidates on stage with a combined total of 214 yrs in age. Not quite Noah, much less Methuseleh, but getting up there.

  106. @Lugash
    Don't go wobbly Steve.

    Trump has won every battle to this point, so lets remain optimistic. He doesn't even need to win on the debates, he just needs to have Hilary look old and tired onstage and have America listen to her shrill Midwest nasal dental drill of a voice.

    I think all the debates, campaign stops, TV ads etc. are irrelevant at this point. Everyone on our side had seen what the establishment has in store for us if they win. This election is really about these issues, not the frippery surrounding it.

    I think all the debates, campaign stops, TV ads etc. are irrelevant at this point.

    There’s a media campaign to portray Trump as the hawk and Hillary as the dove. A person not paying attention might think it’s TRUMP who’ll try to start WWIII or repeat the Iraq Attaq. People have to be told who is really who on this. Trump could make ads with interviews with maimed soldiers who support him. Make it emotional. Message: she’s a killer.

    Dems aren’t denying that Trump wants to build a wall, but they ARE denying that he’s the peace candidate in the race. He needs to educate low-info voters on that, preferably with ads.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    There’s a media campaign to portray Trump as the hawk and Hillary as the dove... People have to be told who is really who on this... Message: she’s a killer.
     
    He could start with borrowing Ted Cruz's smackdown of registering women with Selective Service, a policy we've done quite well without for 240 years and have no need to start now. What's Hillary gonna do? Every stance she could take makes her a bad feminist, a bad human being, or a triangulator.

    "WTF is wrong with you people!?" is a catchy, seinfeldische slogan, and adaptable to other progressive and SJW intrusions as well.

    , @LondonBob
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LKAt1t_8M

    Trump needs a 30 second ad like this one.
  107. @Steve Sailer
    If Trump were in second place in the GOP race, it would have been fun to debate the guy in second place in the Dem race. But with the GOP race locked up, it just lowers Trump's status by being on the same stage as the Democrat's #2.

    If Trump were in second place in the GOP race, it would have been fun to debate the guy in second place in the Dem race. But with the GOP race locked up, it just lowers Trump’s status by being on the same stage as the Democrat’s #2.

    That’s the argument that Trump advances, and I agree with that as well.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The idea of Trump debating Sanders was idiotic on its face. Only a complete chump would agree to THAT. I wonder at the specific mental-midget deformities of an airhead who would fall for such a laughable diversion-- surely not the "master persuader" stooping to dignify such a notion! YEAH RIGHT

    Whoever that bozo was, out in the hinterlands, with the excrement-for-brains and such lack of strategery to express enthusiasm for a DJT-Bernie debate must be a fool... Unless 24 hours have passed & he's reneged on it, in which case he's a genius, comrades
  108. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There’s debating, and then there’s the American TV-corrupted form of “debating” (that has spread to much of the advanced world, though in Britain & Australia the classic expository format still has some prestige). The old Dana Carvey/Jon Lovitz SNL bit from ’88 is a nice satire of the latter: each person gets some amount of time that is too brief to articulate anything unless talking extremely fast; as a result the debater can only manage to spout some glittery but vacuous slogans at the camera, rather than direct and fine-tune a line of attack at his opponent. There is a premium on emotional assertions & facial mugging in lieu of busting the other guy on evidence- or syllogistic-based argument, the natural process in any normal dispute (whether for an audience or not) between fairly intelligent people. The camera submerges this natural law. Quoting the other guy’s words back at him *can* be a sophisticated and devastating technique in a real fight but when employed in the Jim Lehrer/Megyn Kelly infomercial era, it usually appears in the form of a gotcha or an out-of-context smear. The good news is that most people recognize that TV debates & political speechifying have already degraded into a pantomime masturbatory performance with no content (“South Carolina sez whassup!!!”). I think there was a Burger King ad campaign recently, in which the emptiness of head-to-head “argument” before cameras was taken for granted.

    The main beneficiaries of the current TV format are, no surprise, the “journalists” themselves & their producers. The status-goosing is unequaled by anything else short of maybe a Watergate break-in tip; every Ted Baxter or Kent Brockman out there wants to be a debate moderator. Trump is great at certain aspects of TV debating (e.g. mugging, humor) but not so good at explaining policy to the satisfaction of a professional reporter. He even screws up on points that are simple because he listens too much to his own voice, viz. the worthy point about selling health insurance across state lines bastardized into a “get rid of invisible lines” lolcat-meme-of-the-day.

  109. @rod1963
    Steve you have to be joking.

    Hillary is not a strong debater, she hasn't even held a press conference in six months, refused to debate Bernie.

    She cannot handle a environment that is not controlled by her.

    Furthermore Hillary has been coddled her entire life and pretty much treated as royalty ever since Billy boy ascended to POTUS.

    She avoids FoxNews like the plague, she only goes on shows that kiss her ass.

    This isn't a sign of a strong debater but a thin skinned prima donna prone to bouts of coughing when even mildly stressed.

    Bernie is much tougher. He's old school and used to argue with O'Rielly all the time. Could you imagine princess Hillary doing that? No.

    Trump is as well.

    What Hillary does have on her side is this: The MSM and political establishment.

    “She avoids FoxNews like the plague, she only goes on shows that kiss her ass.”

    Hildabeast avoids The Fox News Channel like the plague, yet Donald Trump has no problem going into enemy territory the belly of the beast like CNN and MSNBC, where they think The Donald is worst than Bull Connor & Adolf Hitler combined.

    Hildabeast is chicken shit. She is a coward. She is easily intimidated by Fox News, than she will easily be a pushover who will get stepped over by everybody if she becomes POTUS. You can’t send a weak woman to do a man’s job.

    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    Hildabeast is chicken shit
     
    Yes, but so is Trump. Too chicken to debate Cruz or Sanders.
  110. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonym
    If Trump were in second place in the GOP race, it would have been fun to debate the guy in second place in the Dem race. But with the GOP race locked up, it just lowers Trump’s status by being on the same stage as the Democrat’s #2.

    That's the argument that Trump advances, and I agree with that as well.

    The idea of Trump debating Sanders was idiotic on its face. Only a complete chump would agree to THAT. I wonder at the specific mental-midget deformities of an airhead who would fall for such a laughable diversion– surely not the “master persuader” stooping to dignify such a notion! YEAH RIGHT

    Whoever that bozo was, out in the hinterlands, with the excrement-for-brains and such lack of strategery to express enthusiasm for a DJT-Bernie debate must be a fool… Unless 24 hours have passed & he’s reneged on it, in which case he’s a genius, comrades

    • Replies: @Anonym
    'Let Trump be Trump' has worked quite well so far wouldn't you say?
    , @Anonym
    Have you annointed the white bull yet today, Sport?
  111. @Das
    There's some wild underestimation of Hillary Clinton in these quarters. She's beatable, but she's not someone who is going to collapse under the slightest bit of scrutiny.

    Most of the public remembers the 90s Clinton years very fondly. Obama's approval ratings are above 50%. All Hillary has to do is bring out the "Obama coalition" for a third time, and she'll win.

    Trump is a high-variance candidate. His gambits might shake up the political map and create a new "Trump coalition" that can win a majority in a presidential election. But they might end up backfiring. It's too soon to tell.

    “A Census report on the 2012 election finds that blacks were more likely to vote than whites for the first time. The number of white voters declined by more than 2 million, another first.”

    (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/08/2012-election-voting-rates-blacks-whites-hispanics/2144571/ ]

    What are the chances that those firsts would be replicated in a November election between Clinton and Trump? What are the chances that Blacks would give Clinton 95% of their votes, in November, as they did for Obama, in 2012? How many men would vote for Clinton, just to prove that they are not sexist, the way that many Whites voted for Obama, in 2008, to prove that they were not racist?

    • Replies: @TangoMan
    How many men would vote for Clinton, just to prove that they are not sexist, the way that many Whites voted for Obama, in 2008, to prove that they were not racist?

    I haven't seen this Steve-ism lately "Don't be so black, vote for Barack." Many of the whites who voted for Obama did so because he was, as Biden noted, "Clean, articulate and nice looking." I doubt that the same number of whites would have voted for a more typical black politician.

    My point is that Obama was the right guy to tap into people's desire to see themselves as anti-racists by voting for a black guy just because he was black. Being black, by itself, wasn't enough, Obama was the right kind of black. Hillary is not the right kind of woman. Any anti-sexist man can maintain his anti-sexist bona fides simply by lying, voting for Trump and telling everyone that he voted for Hillary. If a truly inspirational woman was running then lots of men would vote for her, but Hillary is not that woman.

    , @Das
    There were a lot of predictions on the right about how black turnout in 2012 was going to be way down from 2008, because the excitement over Obama was over. Didn't work out that way.

    I think Obama is going to campaign hard for Hillary, and the entire media is going to try to make this election out to be a referendum on the KKK and David Duke. Black turnout isn't going to be a problem.

    Trump is more appealing to working class whites than Romney was, so that gives him a strong opening. It doesn't mean he's a sure thing to win.
  112. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Trump is going to get his wig split in the debates.

    Recently the issue of Trump University has come up in the news. I need not repeat how much of a fraud that was because it's all over the Internet. Most people would look at the product and immediately reject it as it is not an accredited University. Others have buyer's remorse and either admit they were tricked or fight back (learning from your mistakes is a good thing). The remaining are just plain pathetic people.

    What people really mean by "Make America Great Again" is, "Make America great again, fuck equal rights for anyone not a straight, white, man."

    Do you kiss your trans-mother with that mouth? Trump University is no more of a joke than “The Celebrity Apprentice” which succeeded within its demotic parameters. The ones scampering forth to whine about their enrollment in TU are proclaiming themselves to be suckers — in your hilarious wishful thinking the average undecided voter will now identify with the self-styled sucker/complainer, who thought it prudent to buy into yet *admits* getting nothing out of it; rather than the response found in reality: shrugging at Trump’s poor customer service w/ low Yelp rating for a tacky cash-in drop-in-the-bucket side deal. Hillary can’t mobilize the outraged alumni, hell, she can’t even explain why their outrage matters. The fine-print legal contours of the TU fraud allegation might indeed be socially significant but will go over like Sominex in Idiocracy Current Year. You sound like someone carping about Red Dye #2 circa 1986. Meanwhile there are big-boy adults’-table topics under examination this year, you might prefer to retire to your room for a good cry about victimized education consumers.

    • Replies: @Richard Steele
    Hiroji, it's better to not even engage this douchebag troll. Tiny Dick is probably some clown who likes to agitate because he has nothing else going on in his pathetic life. However, I totally agree with your points.
  113. @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    I agree. Trump is thin-skinned and somewhat mean and vindictive. The audience will likely be stacked with Hillary support and Donald hate. I also think he will be less effective debating a woman than the gang of peers and rivals he faced in the primaries. Good thing it won’t be Granny Warren.

  114. @Steve Richter
    The fact that he chickened out of the debate against Bernie was very troubling. A conservative interested in policy would love to debate a socialist. Ask how people whose labor is not worth $15 per hour are supposed to get a job. Ask about Venezuela and why socialism is failing there. Challenge Bernie to explain what the Baltimore and Ferguson police officers did wrong. Does Bernie support more section 8 housing in Vermont?

    Front-runner ought never debate second-runner on the other side.

  115. @D. K.
    "A Census report on the 2012 election finds that blacks were more likely to vote than whites for the first time. The number of white voters declined by more than 2 million, another first."

    [ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/08/2012-election-voting-rates-blacks-whites-hispanics/2144571/ ]

    What are the chances that those firsts would be replicated in a November election between Clinton and Trump? What are the chances that Blacks would give Clinton 95% of their votes, in November, as they did for Obama, in 2012? How many men would vote for Clinton, just to prove that they are not sexist, the way that many Whites voted for Obama, in 2008, to prove that they were not racist?

    How many men would vote for Clinton, just to prove that they are not sexist, the way that many Whites voted for Obama, in 2008, to prove that they were not racist?

    I haven’t seen this Steve-ism lately “Don’t be so black, vote for Barack.” Many of the whites who voted for Obama did so because he was, as Biden noted, “Clean, articulate and nice looking.” I doubt that the same number of whites would have voted for a more typical black politician.

    My point is that Obama was the right guy to tap into people’s desire to see themselves as anti-racists by voting for a black guy just because he was black. Being black, by itself, wasn’t enough, Obama was the right kind of black. Hillary is not the right kind of woman. Any anti-sexist man can maintain his anti-sexist bona fides simply by lying, voting for Trump and telling everyone that he voted for Hillary. If a truly inspirational woman was running then lots of men would vote for her, but Hillary is not that woman.

  116. He cheats – so no but yes.

  117. Das says:
    @D. K.
    "A Census report on the 2012 election finds that blacks were more likely to vote than whites for the first time. The number of white voters declined by more than 2 million, another first."

    [ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/08/2012-election-voting-rates-blacks-whites-hispanics/2144571/ ]

    What are the chances that those firsts would be replicated in a November election between Clinton and Trump? What are the chances that Blacks would give Clinton 95% of their votes, in November, as they did for Obama, in 2012? How many men would vote for Clinton, just to prove that they are not sexist, the way that many Whites voted for Obama, in 2008, to prove that they were not racist?

    There were a lot of predictions on the right about how black turnout in 2012 was going to be way down from 2008, because the excitement over Obama was over. Didn’t work out that way.

    I think Obama is going to campaign hard for Hillary, and the entire media is going to try to make this election out to be a referendum on the KKK and David Duke. Black turnout isn’t going to be a problem.

    Trump is more appealing to working class whites than Romney was, so that gives him a strong opening. It doesn’t mean he’s a sure thing to win.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Some recent polls suggest Bernie will win CA and do quite well in the remaining primaries. If there's an open fight at the Democratic Convention or if Bernie bolts and goes third party, that's not gonna help Hillary, is it? Also, Obama could just as easily decide to quietly back Biden or Kerry or another candidate better able to preserve his legacy than Hillary should it appear that she can't win the nomination without an open fight at the convention.

    Also, not all blacks just "love" Hillary. That doesn't mean they'll vote Trump but some may indeed decide to stay home. 1-2 million fewer black votes (who decided to stay home) could spell trouble for her.
    , @D. K.
    Blacks turned out a second time for the first Black president, in 2012, so they will turn out in 2016 for an old White woman, too, because she will have a "D" after her name on the ballot? Why has the Democratic turnout been so low, this year, compared to the last contested Democratic nomination, in 2008?
  118. @Dave Pinsen
    Josh Barro wrote a post yesterday claiming Hillary was the "safe bet". I refuted it here, noting even The New Republic and The Nation have criticized her hawkish and incompetent foreign policy: http://seekingalpha.com/article/3979409-trump-ultimate-tail-risk-candidate

    I also pointed out the ludicrousness of painting Trump, who's been worried about nukes forever, as some nut out of Dr. Strangelove.

    Both Trump & Clinton know that nukes are overkill…so, to me this whole “dick-tease” about “having a finger on the nuclear football,” is just showboating. They both need to move beyond a “Hollywood Disaster Movie. ” For fun tonight, re-live the dialogue of ‘True Lies’; particularly, the lines by the villains…this is pre-PC Hollywood as far as stereotypes! – and, you’ve got Aaahnuld!

    Trump & Clinton & Bernie need to state what they believe is a rational scenario in dealing with not only the Migrant Crisis, but WTF do we do with: present state of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia & Co., Libya, Turkey, Yemen, North and Central Africa countries (?), etc., etc., etc. – all the countries that cause so much misery in the world.

  119. @Anonym
    Roger Stone said publicly what a bad idea it would be to debate Bernie because then he alienates the Bernie supporters who might otherwise vote for Trump IIRC. He was adamant it was a bad idea. So I think that may be behind why.

    – totally agree. 3 out of the 4 guys in my family are Bernie Bros, and, they do not care for the current Dem policies (or future ones/immigration, esp. H1B is a yuge point of contention) , so, would reluctantly, but logically, vote for Trump. Trump knows not to frack that up (Bernie Bros). This was definitely a trap, set up by the MSM, so, I am glad that Trump saw that trap.

  120. @Anonymous


    Don’t go wobbly Steve.
     
    steve was never firm on trump
     
    I'm sure the following won't make it through because of the moderator's fragile ego. But here it goes.

    Sailer needs the world to continue spiral downward for his pessimistic prognostications. Also, Sailer is fueled by envy. Trump is able to say in one simple and entertaining sentence what guys like Sailer try to convey in pretentious and tediously-long essays where even then he is forced to use examples and reference other writers and ideas to make his point. Brevity is a masculine trait, Sailer! Lastly, Sailer is majorly envious of Trump for being ultra rich and having a super model wife and having golf courses around the world. Sailer can snipe at Trump for his "tacky taste" but Sailer would love to be Trump. Even for one day.

    What a jerk!

    Part of me wants to believe this guy is an anti-Alt Right troll, but our enemies aren’t so subtle (see “Tiny Duck” above) and some on our side really are that crazy.

  121. @Jus' Sayin'...
    You are clearly not native to the USA. That smarmy, faux-working-class-Brit-accent on the voice-over is viscerally offensive to American ears and guarantees that many listeners will try to vote in a way that annoys its source. Also, there are two kinds of Brit humor: Monty Pythonesque which has broad appeal and the type that is exuded by fruity Labor Party types and the highly unpopular Colbert wannabes that the Beeb keeps shipping over here. The "humor" displayed in your clip is of the latter type and holds little appeal for those in this country who are not politically deranged.

    I didn’t see humor. I saw a bunch of dudes and chix pretending to be each other.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    And I give you the person with the longest current tenure of any black "man" on television:

    http://www.logotv.com/shows/rupauls-drag-race
  122. @Mark Eugenikos
    Truth, it is indeed sad to see you come to this. I watched the "video". It's 11 minutes of some dude with a funny accent rambling incoherently about... I am actually not sure what he rambled about.

    The only thing this video is going to destroy is any respect for your intelligence or common sense that the visitors of this site may have left. You really don't need to go out of your way to embarrass yourself.

    So Ivanna, Ivanka, and Melania look like ole’ fashioned, organic women, to you?

    • Replies: @Mark Eugenikos

    So Ivanna, Ivanka, and Melania look like ole’ fashioned, organic women, to you?
     
    Within my species, yes, as much as I can tell from the photos. Haven't met any of them in person. Ivana is pushing 70 but her makeup and dress are not really appropriate for her age, which has more to do with taste than with anything else. No complaints about the other two.

    Why don't you educate us who looks like old fashioned organic woman in your humble opinion?
  123. @Mark Eugenikos

    Sailer can snipe at Trump for his “tacky taste” but Sailer would love to be Trump. Even for one day.
     
    Dude, speak for yourself. Let Steve say, or not say, if he would want to be Trump.

    One thing's for sure: I and many others visiting this site have learned a lot from Steve over the years; I doubt anyone from this company (right side of the Bell curve) has learned much if anything from Trump, yet. Steve and Trump perform different functions and both are valuable in their spheres of influence. Steve has been educating relatively small HBD audience for decades, while Trump has reached much larger, and much more clueless, audiences, but only this past year. Those two audiences don't overlap much, but they do need each other.

    “Steve has been educating relatively small HBD audience for decades, while Trump has reached much larger, and much more clueless, audiences, but only this past year.”

    You can’t tell a dude from a chick, but someone else is “clueless?”

  124. @Steve Sailer
    Hillary has time, money, and experts to think about how to get under Trump's skin.

    And…Trump doesn’t have the same? I don’t recall Hillary having thick skin either. Also, as shown by her opening “attack” ads in early May, they seemed to badly backfire. What was that now famous tweet by a liberal:

    “You know how Trump says he’ll get Mexico to pay for the wall—
    –why not, he’s already getting Hillary to write his campaign ads for him”

  125. @Das
    There were a lot of predictions on the right about how black turnout in 2012 was going to be way down from 2008, because the excitement over Obama was over. Didn't work out that way.

    I think Obama is going to campaign hard for Hillary, and the entire media is going to try to make this election out to be a referendum on the KKK and David Duke. Black turnout isn't going to be a problem.

    Trump is more appealing to working class whites than Romney was, so that gives him a strong opening. It doesn't mean he's a sure thing to win.

    Some recent polls suggest Bernie will win CA and do quite well in the remaining primaries. If there’s an open fight at the Democratic Convention or if Bernie bolts and goes third party, that’s not gonna help Hillary, is it? Also, Obama could just as easily decide to quietly back Biden or Kerry or another candidate better able to preserve his legacy than Hillary should it appear that she can’t win the nomination without an open fight at the convention.

    Also, not all blacks just “love” Hillary. That doesn’t mean they’ll vote Trump but some may indeed decide to stay home. 1-2 million fewer black votes (who decided to stay home) could spell trouble for her.

  126. @Anonymous
    The idea of Trump debating Sanders was idiotic on its face. Only a complete chump would agree to THAT. I wonder at the specific mental-midget deformities of an airhead who would fall for such a laughable diversion-- surely not the "master persuader" stooping to dignify such a notion! YEAH RIGHT

    Whoever that bozo was, out in the hinterlands, with the excrement-for-brains and such lack of strategery to express enthusiasm for a DJT-Bernie debate must be a fool... Unless 24 hours have passed & he's reneged on it, in which case he's a genius, comrades

    ‘Let Trump be Trump’ has worked quite well so far wouldn’t you say?

  127. I don’t know if anyone could look good in those GOP debates with a dozen or more people on stage at once. Those debate formats don’t exactly reward thoughtful analysis on any topic, and if you were the front runner like Trump was you knew you would be constantly under attack from the laggards in the campaign trying to score points to boost themselves. Once it came down to just four or five I think he came off much better, although I didn’t see every debate.

    His main problem is that he is clearly used to being in charge and tends to blow off attacks like someone in charge would, instead of like a candidate responding to another, although I think he could change that tactic in a one on one debate. Hilary isn’t a particularly good public speaker, she sounds rehearsed and very shrill when she tries to emphasize points on the campaign trail, and she also tends to ramble on policy and not get to the point. Additionally the Donald will physically tower over here when they walk on stage together, and that is usually an advantage to the taller candidate.

  128. @Glossy
    I think all the debates, campaign stops, TV ads etc. are irrelevant at this point.

    There's a media campaign to portray Trump as the hawk and Hillary as the dove. A person not paying attention might think it's TRUMP who'll try to start WWIII or repeat the Iraq Attaq. People have to be told who is really who on this. Trump could make ads with interviews with maimed soldiers who support him. Make it emotional. Message: she's a killer.

    Dems aren't denying that Trump wants to build a wall, but they ARE denying that he's the peace candidate in the race. He needs to educate low-info voters on that, preferably with ads.

    There’s a media campaign to portray Trump as the hawk and Hillary as the dove… People have to be told who is really who on this… Message: she’s a killer.

    He could start with borrowing Ted Cruz’s smackdown of registering women with Selective Service, a policy we’ve done quite well without for 240 years and have no need to start now. What’s Hillary gonna do? Every stance she could take makes her a bad feminist, a bad human being, or a triangulator.

    WTF is wrong with you people!?” is a catchy, seinfeldische slogan, and adaptable to other progressive and SJW intrusions as well.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    An important question here is:

    Are they pushing for registering women for selective service because they are trying to break down centuries of discrimination against women or do they see a need for lots more cannon fodder and are using that as an excuse to boost the size of the army available to them?
  129. @Marc
    Trump's debating skills may not be fully known, but he has shown a verbal acumen on complicated policy matters in the past belying the intelligence of a man of his educational background and business accomplishment. Just because he is not an intellectual does not mean he isn't intellectual.

    I expect him to know when to precisely tone down the bluster and speak to people at an above 3rd grade comprehension level. He held his own against someone with the extemporaneous speaking skill of a Ted Cruz, and should able hold his own in debates with a cold fish like Hillary.

    He held his own against someone with the extemporaneous speaking skill of a Ted Cruz, and should able hold his own in debates with a cold fish like Hillary.

    Debating is one-on-one. In the primaries, what we had was mass debating.

    And you know what excess mass debating can do to you.

    Cold fish require a different strategy:

  130. There is the debate. And then there is the stuff that happens before the debate — battlespace preparation. There is some reason to believe that the Clintons did not want Al Gore to win in 2000, comedians were constantly mocking Gore as robotic, and when he kissed Tipper in a “passionate” embrace he only fed into that, comedians mocked THAT as well as a robot imitating passion.

    THE personal knock on Al Gore was that he was robotic. Similar to how comedians mocked John Kerry “reporting for duty.” As being a full of hot air phony. I thought it weird at the time — but I guess that was the Clinton machine.

    Obama could act to indict Hillary! and spring Joe Biden on everyone before the Convention. Blacks are far more likely to vote for Obama’s VP than Hillary! Which would present its own problems for Trump vs. Biden, less attack surface for Trump. Hillary is an attack rich surface.

    But “battlespace” prep has already begun. Various anti-Trump thugs beat up his supporters outside his Bay Area rally today, complete with signs saying “This is Mexico” and obscenities in Spanish and Mexican flags. That’s a dominance show — meant to pump up Hillary! supporters and show Trumps that they already are a minority. Obama is mocking Whites concerned with “Reverse Racism” to laughter from the press, and various College campuses are apparently now over-run by SJW Women of Color who in private facebook pages, scream about White men (and also Asian ones — their beef there is a lack of masculine dominance among Asian men prone to technology obsessions and computer literacy). Similar to the BBC’s “Whites need not apply” scandal (jobs listed excluding Whites), there is a constant pre-Debate drumbeat to make White men illegitimate and unworthy of inhabiting public space. “White Male” is now a curse word.

    How effective this will be I don’t know. If I had to guess I’d say Hillary! and company are worried about Donald’s Big Man appeal to Blacks and Hispanics and pulling out enough of them, though still losing the demos overall, to deny Hillary (or Biden if that’s the nominee) the victory. The flipside of Reps doing poorly among NAMs is the total dependence of Dems on NAM voting percentage AND turnout. Trump threatens both … depressed turnout and significant siphoning of of NAM votes from Dems.

    Donald as Big Man in Charge does appeal to a non trivial amount of NAM voters and far in excess of McCain or Romney.

    I think painting Trump as the next coming of the Klan will be effective, despite Trump (on immigration and thus labor market scarcity and higher wages and higher social spending not diluted by immigrants) being ridiculously pro-Black, easily the most pro-Black and Hispanic candidate in living memory. Lee Kwan Yew said people vote their race/ethnicity. Not policy.

    The flipside is the emerging White identity politics which is a function of about 95% of Whites being locked out of opportunity and advancement. When you lose Neal Gabler …

    • Replies: @D. K.
    The problem with replacing Clinton with Biden, or some other ringer, is that both Clinton's core voters, especially feminists, and the bulk of Sanders' left-wing voters would be utterly enraged, not merely disappointed, and unlikely to turn out just for the sake of party loyalty.
  131. @Jefferson
    "She avoids FoxNews like the plague, she only goes on shows that kiss her ass."

    Hildabeast avoids The Fox News Channel like the plague, yet Donald Trump has no problem going into enemy territory the belly of the beast like CNN and MSNBC, where they think The Donald is worst than Bull Connor & Adolf Hitler combined.

    Hildabeast is chicken shit. She is a coward. She is easily intimidated by Fox News, than she will easily be a pushover who will get stepped over by everybody if she becomes POTUS. You can't send a weak woman to do a man's job.

    Hildabeast is chicken shit

    Yes, but so is Trump. Too chicken to debate Cruz or Sanders.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    Cruz was never Trump's lone opponent; Cruz dropped out the day before Kasich did-- after Trump had embarrassed the two of them in seven straight primaries. Trump debated the field for all of the media-arranged debates, except for the one right before the Iowa caucuses. As for your crazy uncle, Sanders never even pretended that he was willing or able to pony up the requisite ten million bucks to get into that game.
  132. @Unit472
    Trump needs to structure the "debates" away from TV celebrity journalists asking questions in favor of a man on man contest between the candidates. No lecturnfor the Rodhamster to hide her enormous pantsuit clad beam behind, eg.

    Position the candidates close together so Trumps height advantage and the Rodhamsters dermatological issues are highlighted. Trumps a pro at reality TV and style and format matters more than substance in this arena.

    There needs to be an alt-right debate.

  133. @Reg Cæsar

    There’s a media campaign to portray Trump as the hawk and Hillary as the dove... People have to be told who is really who on this... Message: she’s a killer.
     
    He could start with borrowing Ted Cruz's smackdown of registering women with Selective Service, a policy we've done quite well without for 240 years and have no need to start now. What's Hillary gonna do? Every stance she could take makes her a bad feminist, a bad human being, or a triangulator.

    "WTF is wrong with you people!?" is a catchy, seinfeldische slogan, and adaptable to other progressive and SJW intrusions as well.

    An important question here is:

    Are they pushing for registering women for selective service because they are trying to break down centuries of discrimination against women or do they see a need for lots more cannon fodder and are using that as an excuse to boost the size of the army available to them?

  134. @Anonymous
    The idea of Trump debating Sanders was idiotic on its face. Only a complete chump would agree to THAT. I wonder at the specific mental-midget deformities of an airhead who would fall for such a laughable diversion-- surely not the "master persuader" stooping to dignify such a notion! YEAH RIGHT

    Whoever that bozo was, out in the hinterlands, with the excrement-for-brains and such lack of strategery to express enthusiasm for a DJT-Bernie debate must be a fool... Unless 24 hours have passed & he's reneged on it, in which case he's a genius, comrades

    Have you annointed the white bull yet today, Sport?

  135. @Stephen R. Diamond

    Hildabeast is chicken shit
     
    Yes, but so is Trump. Too chicken to debate Cruz or Sanders.

    Cruz was never Trump’s lone opponent; Cruz dropped out the day before Kasich did– after Trump had embarrassed the two of them in seven straight primaries. Trump debated the field for all of the media-arranged debates, except for the one right before the Iowa caucuses. As for your crazy uncle, Sanders never even pretended that he was willing or able to pony up the requisite ten million bucks to get into that game.

  136. @Truth
    So Ivanna, Ivanka, and Melania look like ole' fashioned, organic women, to you?

    So Ivanna, Ivanka, and Melania look like ole’ fashioned, organic women, to you?

    Within my species, yes, as much as I can tell from the photos. Haven’t met any of them in person. Ivana is pushing 70 but her makeup and dress are not really appropriate for her age, which has more to do with taste than with anything else. No complaints about the other two.

    Why don’t you educate us who looks like old fashioned organic woman in your humble opinion?

    • Replies: @Truth
    ...Generally women who were born women.

    Hint, not:

    Sofia Vergara
    Michi-O
    Megyn Kelly
    Uma Thurman
    Jennifer Aniston
    Serena Williams
    Scarlet Johansson
    Ivana, Ivanka, or M(a)elania Trump.
    Joan or Melissa Rivers
    Paula Patton

    And I could go on...and back in time...

    Yes old Sport, they float a very dark (this is important), and muscular trial balloon (such as Michelle) to let you think that you are too smart for the conspiracy; and right under you snotty noses, they push trannies in your face...and you wank to them.

    I'll give you a visual aid to help show you what the Satanist empire which runs the world did to you...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTkN2q6sUUk

    ..Yeah, the put you on your back, walked over you, and at :12-19 seconds, that's how they celebrate your cognitive lack of defense.

  137. @Whiskey
    There is the debate. And then there is the stuff that happens before the debate -- battlespace preparation. There is some reason to believe that the Clintons did not want Al Gore to win in 2000, comedians were constantly mocking Gore as robotic, and when he kissed Tipper in a "passionate" embrace he only fed into that, comedians mocked THAT as well as a robot imitating passion.

    THE personal knock on Al Gore was that he was robotic. Similar to how comedians mocked John Kerry "reporting for duty." As being a full of hot air phony. I thought it weird at the time -- but I guess that was the Clinton machine.

    Obama could act to indict Hillary! and spring Joe Biden on everyone before the Convention. Blacks are far more likely to vote for Obama's VP than Hillary! Which would present its own problems for Trump vs. Biden, less attack surface for Trump. Hillary is an attack rich surface.

    But "battlespace" prep has already begun. Various anti-Trump thugs beat up his supporters outside his Bay Area rally today, complete with signs saying "This is Mexico" and obscenities in Spanish and Mexican flags. That's a dominance show -- meant to pump up Hillary! supporters and show Trumps that they already are a minority. Obama is mocking Whites concerned with "Reverse Racism" to laughter from the press, and various College campuses are apparently now over-run by SJW Women of Color who in private facebook pages, scream about White men (and also Asian ones -- their beef there is a lack of masculine dominance among Asian men prone to technology obsessions and computer literacy). Similar to the BBC's "Whites need not apply" scandal (jobs listed excluding Whites), there is a constant pre-Debate drumbeat to make White men illegitimate and unworthy of inhabiting public space. "White Male" is now a curse word.

    How effective this will be I don't know. If I had to guess I'd say Hillary! and company are worried about Donald's Big Man appeal to Blacks and Hispanics and pulling out enough of them, though still losing the demos overall, to deny Hillary (or Biden if that's the nominee) the victory. The flipside of Reps doing poorly among NAMs is the total dependence of Dems on NAM voting percentage AND turnout. Trump threatens both ... depressed turnout and significant siphoning of of NAM votes from Dems.

    Donald as Big Man in Charge does appeal to a non trivial amount of NAM voters and far in excess of McCain or Romney.

    I think painting Trump as the next coming of the Klan will be effective, despite Trump (on immigration and thus labor market scarcity and higher wages and higher social spending not diluted by immigrants) being ridiculously pro-Black, easily the most pro-Black and Hispanic candidate in living memory. Lee Kwan Yew said people vote their race/ethnicity. Not policy.

    The flipside is the emerging White identity politics which is a function of about 95% of Whites being locked out of opportunity and advancement. When you lose Neal Gabler ...

    The problem with replacing Clinton with Biden, or some other ringer, is that both Clinton’s core voters, especially feminists, and the bulk of Sanders’ left-wing voters would be utterly enraged, not merely disappointed, and unlikely to turn out just for the sake of party loyalty.

  138. @Glossy
    I think all the debates, campaign stops, TV ads etc. are irrelevant at this point.

    There's a media campaign to portray Trump as the hawk and Hillary as the dove. A person not paying attention might think it's TRUMP who'll try to start WWIII or repeat the Iraq Attaq. People have to be told who is really who on this. Trump could make ads with interviews with maimed soldiers who support him. Make it emotional. Message: she's a killer.

    Dems aren't denying that Trump wants to build a wall, but they ARE denying that he's the peace candidate in the race. He needs to educate low-info voters on that, preferably with ads.

    Trump needs a 30 second ad like this one.

    • Replies: @utu
    Very good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LKAt1t_8M
  139. @Das
    There were a lot of predictions on the right about how black turnout in 2012 was going to be way down from 2008, because the excitement over Obama was over. Didn't work out that way.

    I think Obama is going to campaign hard for Hillary, and the entire media is going to try to make this election out to be a referendum on the KKK and David Duke. Black turnout isn't going to be a problem.

    Trump is more appealing to working class whites than Romney was, so that gives him a strong opening. It doesn't mean he's a sure thing to win.

    Blacks turned out a second time for the first Black president, in 2012, so they will turn out in 2016 for an old White woman, too, because she will have a “D” after her name on the ballot? Why has the Democratic turnout been so low, this year, compared to the last contested Democratic nomination, in 2008?

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Because the he couldn't masturbate to a prediction of Dooooooooom.
  140. @Mark Eugenikos

    So Ivanna, Ivanka, and Melania look like ole’ fashioned, organic women, to you?
     
    Within my species, yes, as much as I can tell from the photos. Haven't met any of them in person. Ivana is pushing 70 but her makeup and dress are not really appropriate for her age, which has more to do with taste than with anything else. No complaints about the other two.

    Why don't you educate us who looks like old fashioned organic woman in your humble opinion?

    …Generally women who were born women.

    Hint, not:

    Sofia Vergara
    Michi-O
    Megyn Kelly
    Uma Thurman
    Jennifer Aniston
    Serena Williams
    Scarlet Johansson
    Ivana, Ivanka, or M(a)elania Trump.
    Joan or Melissa Rivers
    Paula Patton

    And I could go on…and back in time…

    Yes old Sport, they float a very dark (this is important), and muscular trial balloon (such as Michelle) to let you think that you are too smart for the conspiracy; and right under you snotty noses, they push trannies in your face…and you wank to them.

    I’ll give you a visual aid to help show you what the Satanist empire which runs the world did to you…

    ..Yeah, the put you on your back, walked over you, and at :12-19 seconds, that’s how they celebrate your cognitive lack of defense.

    • Replies: @Mark Eugenikos
    I asked you to provide a sample list of "old-fashioned" women, and you provided the opposite. The rest of your reply doesn't make any sense. Are you on some kind of medication that you stopped taking? Seriously, your posts have been getting less and less coherent.
  141. @D. K.
    Blacks turned out a second time for the first Black president, in 2012, so they will turn out in 2016 for an old White woman, too, because she will have a "D" after her name on the ballot? Why has the Democratic turnout been so low, this year, compared to the last contested Democratic nomination, in 2008?

    Because the he couldn’t masturbate to a prediction of Dooooooooom.

  142. @Jack D
    I'm sure all the professional commentariat will score the debates for Hillary, not just for reasons of bias but because she will know the difference between Niger and Nigeria and Trump won't when.

    If you listen to the audio of the 1960 debates, Nixon the high school debate champion wins on points. But if you watch the video with the sound turned off, JFK is clearly the winner. Nixon looks like "Tricky Dick" with a 5 oclock shadow, sweating bullets and mopping his brow, while Kennedy looks like he just got off his yacht after spending some quality time with Marilyn Monroe (because he probably did).

    I think the same thing will happen here - no matter how much Hillary "wins" on paper, she isn't going to win on screen where it really counts.

    Correct, and given that we’re increasingly a country of citizens with the attention span of a gnat, optics are YYUUUUGE.

  143. Trump was so good at debates that millenials created YouTube highlights. Can’t Stump the Trump, and others.

    Besides, he doesn’t have to “win” the debate in any traditional sense. He just needs to look controlled and presidential enough to get Trump-leaners or undecideds out to vote.

  144. @Steve Richter
    The fact that he chickened out of the debate against Bernie was very troubling. A conservative interested in policy would love to debate a socialist. Ask how people whose labor is not worth $15 per hour are supposed to get a job. Ask about Venezuela and why socialism is failing there. Challenge Bernie to explain what the Baltimore and Ferguson police officers did wrong. Does Bernie support more section 8 housing in Vermont?

    “Chickened out” or, in a rational calculation weighed in terms of Help/Hurt, found the idea wanting.

  145. @Truth
    I didn't see humor. I saw a bunch of dudes and chix pretending to be each other.

    And I give you the person with the longest current tenure of any black “man” on television:

    http://www.logotv.com/shows/rupauls-drag-race

    • Replies: @Truth
    Yep, but from day one, he claimed what he was....a vestie.

    Unlike certain people I've mentioned above.
  146. @NOTA
    Yeah, Hillary's actual credentials for the job are pretty good, but she's not an especially gifted politician--she's not a great speaker like Obama, she's not automatically likable like Reagan, she doesn't magically connect to people like her husband. She's like another Nixon--not in the sense of Watergate, but in the sense of being someone whose quest to be president is uphill, because she doesn't have a lot of natural talent for it. She's like a mediocre athlete who works his ass off in practice and studies up on the game in his off hours, trying to make it to the pros on hard work and grit.

    By contrast, Trump's credentials for the job are lousy--he's never been in government, has little detailed knowledge of policy, doesn't have an insiders understanding of the system. But he's just oozing with natural talent at *getting* the job.

    Hillary’s actual credentials for the job are pretty good,

    Are you insane? She’s been given a ridiculous number of chances to demonstrate her “talents” and she’s screwed up every single time. I’ve seen and posted lists of her failures in various places. It’s astonishing what she’s gotten away with. I defy you to name one major accomplishment byHillary Clinton that has benefited the nation as a whole. Actually, I defy you to provide even one minor such accomplishment!

  147. @LondonBob
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LKAt1t_8M

    Trump needs a 30 second ad like this one.

    Very good:

  148. @Jus' Sayin'...
    You are clearly not native to the USA. That smarmy, faux-working-class-Brit-accent on the voice-over is viscerally offensive to American ears and guarantees that many listeners will try to vote in a way that annoys its source. Also, there are two kinds of Brit humor: Monty Pythonesque which has broad appeal and the type that is exuded by fruity Labor Party types and the highly unpopular Colbert wannabes that the Beeb keeps shipping over here. The "humor" displayed in your clip is of the latter type and holds little appeal for those in this country who are not politically deranged.

    You are clearly not native to the USA. That smarmy, faux-working-class-Brit-accent on the voice-over is viscerally offensive to American ears

    That sounds like a (drunk?) Aussie accent to me, faux or not. Of course some working class Brit accents are very close to Aussie ones.

  149. @Brutusale
    And I give you the person with the longest current tenure of any black "man" on television:

    http://www.logotv.com/shows/rupauls-drag-race

    Yep, but from day one, he claimed what he was….a vestie.

    Unlike certain people I’ve mentioned above.

  150. Interesting, bec. one reason I got out of “academic” philosophy was a dislike of formal “debating” as opposed to “talking around an idea until the audience is accustomed to it” as O’Brien described Plotinus’ writings. As readers of my essays/reviews will recognize.

  151. @Anonymous
    Do you kiss your trans-mother with that mouth? Trump University is no more of a joke than "The Celebrity Apprentice" which succeeded within its demotic parameters. The ones scampering forth to whine about their enrollment in TU are proclaiming themselves to be suckers -- in your hilarious wishful thinking the average undecided voter will now identify with the self-styled sucker/complainer, who thought it prudent to buy into yet *admits* getting nothing out of it; rather than the response found in reality: shrugging at Trump's poor customer service w/ low Yelp rating for a tacky cash-in drop-in-the-bucket side deal. Hillary can't mobilize the outraged alumni, hell, she can't even explain why their outrage matters. The fine-print legal contours of the TU fraud allegation might indeed be socially significant but will go over like Sominex in Idiocracy Current Year. You sound like someone carping about Red Dye #2 circa 1986. Meanwhile there are big-boy adults'-table topics under examination this year, you might prefer to retire to your room for a good cry about victimized education consumers.

    Hiroji, it’s better to not even engage this douchebag troll. Tiny Dick is probably some clown who likes to agitate because he has nothing else going on in his pathetic life. However, I totally agree with your points.

  152. @Truth
    ...Generally women who were born women.

    Hint, not:

    Sofia Vergara
    Michi-O
    Megyn Kelly
    Uma Thurman
    Jennifer Aniston
    Serena Williams
    Scarlet Johansson
    Ivana, Ivanka, or M(a)elania Trump.
    Joan or Melissa Rivers
    Paula Patton

    And I could go on...and back in time...

    Yes old Sport, they float a very dark (this is important), and muscular trial balloon (such as Michelle) to let you think that you are too smart for the conspiracy; and right under you snotty noses, they push trannies in your face...and you wank to them.

    I'll give you a visual aid to help show you what the Satanist empire which runs the world did to you...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTkN2q6sUUk

    ..Yeah, the put you on your back, walked over you, and at :12-19 seconds, that's how they celebrate your cognitive lack of defense.

    I asked you to provide a sample list of “old-fashioned” women, and you provided the opposite. The rest of your reply doesn’t make any sense. Are you on some kind of medication that you stopped taking? Seriously, your posts have been getting less and less coherent.

  153. @Tiny Duck
    Trump is going to get his wig split in the debates.

    Recently the issue of Trump University has come up in the news. I need not repeat how much of a fraud that was because it's all over the Internet. Most people would look at the product and immediately reject it as it is not an accredited University. Others have buyer's remorse and either admit they were tricked or fight back (learning from your mistakes is a good thing). The remaining are just plain pathetic people.

    What people really mean by "Make America Great Again" is, "Make America great again, fuck equal rights for anyone not a straight, white, man."

    You’re attacking s straw man in several respects. Trump is not at all hostile to gays and has a typical nyc attitude towards it as a non-issue.

  154. Jon0815 says:
    June 3, 2016 at 12:32 am GMT • 200 Words

    You sabotaged your own point with the “personality cult” thing. It’s the positions, stupid (though I admit, seeing him smash the media and establishment in the mouth, over and over, has been entertaining).

    Yes, but so is Trump. Too chicken to debate Cruz or Sanders.

    Is false equivalency par for the course with you? Obviously there is a lot of distance between them. Trump lives in front of the media. When was the last time Hillary did a press conference? She’s famous for ducking the media.

    Seriously, your posts have been getting less and less coherent.

    Yeah, that was seriously nuts. In his defense, he’s always been prone to nutty outbursts. Raise your hand if you remember the one about the car that runs on water.

  155. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Image is everything. TV is about images. All it would take is for Hillary during a lengthy response to go into a coughing fit for several seconds (which appear to be a very long time in TVland) and Trump's point is made: Look at her, she doesn't even have the stamina to finish a sentence without appearing old, worn out, tired, etc.

    Al Gore's perpetual sighs in the '00 debates are still talked about. Just one coughing fit is all it would take for Hillary to be finished. One major coughing fit, live, and for several seconds. It wouldn't look very good for her.

    All it would take is Trump walking over with a glass of water and asking if she’s okay.

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