The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Is There More Diversity Within OR Between Races?
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

These tweets document how 21st Century genetic tests can predict what race people will self-identify as belonging to with 95%-99% accuracy

Somebody brings up a common and not terrible argument: there is more diversity within races than between races.

Because I sort of agree with that proposition, I’d be slightly less unpopular if I dogmatically repeated it on all occasions: “There is more diversity within races than between races!”

But … that’s clearly not true for all traits. Moreover, I don’t really know how to test whether it’s true on average. It seems more scientific to both look for examples that support and examples that invalidate that assertion. If you are open-minded, you can find all sorts of interesting and pragmatic patterns.

Manute Bol was taller than his fellow Dinka NBA player Luol Deng, as is Manute’s son Bol Bol. So, there is much diversity of height within the Dinkas of South Sudan.

Still, the 2nd percentile Dinka in height is likely taller than the 98th percentile Pygmy.

On the other hand, in the U.S., whites and blacks are quite similar in height, with whites ever so slightly taller and blacks a little more variable. On the other other hand, whites and blacks of similar heights tend to have different proportions: e.g., basketball player Michael Jordan has long legs and swimmer Michael “The Human Surfboard” Phelps has a long torso.

So you can keep burrowing ever deeper into these kind of questions, generating interesting and sometimes useful knowledge (especially useful in our Age of Kendi when every statistic at which whites have an advantage, such as winning more Olympic swimming medals, is assumed automatically to be proof of evil white racism).

On the other other other hand, there is a fair amount of diversity in average phenotypic height between white Americans versus Asian-Americans and Mexican-Americans. But nobody much cares about those kind of differences.

Here’s a way for baseball fans to think about diversity within races vs diversity between races: Most African-American baseball Hall of Famers were quite fast runners (e.g. Ricky Henderson, Lou Brock, Tim Raines). So the stereotype of African-American as fast is, on the whole, true. But it’s not foolproof: I believe at least 5 black American Hall of Famers were well below major league average in footspeed: Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Roy Campanella, Harold Baines, and Frank Thomas.

Here’s a recent article from Hardball Times updating Bill James 1987 innovation of Speed Scores, in which baseball players are rated on 6 factors that indicate footspeed

The Fastest Player in Baseball (Revisited)
by Jared Cross

(1) success stealing bases, (2) propensity to steal, (3) ability to leg out triples, (4) ability to score once on base, (5) ability to beat out double-play balls and (6) defensive range

Fastest Player Seasons, 1951-2017

First Last Age Pos Yr Pred SS (ft/s) F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6
Willie Wilson 25 LF 1980 29.88 0.99 0.95 0.96 0.99 1.00 0.96
Carl Crawford 23 LF 2004 29.80 0.95 0.99 0.99 0.99 1.00 0.84
Billy Hamilton 27 CF 2017 29.79 0.98 1.00 1.00 0.99 0.96 0.93
Maury Wills 30 SS 1962 29.78 1.00 1.00 0.84 1.00 0.97 0.86
Willie Wilson 24 LF 1979 29.76 0.99 1.00 0.98 1.00 1.00 0.80
Juan Samuel 23 2B 1984 29.61 0.98 1.00 0.99 0.95 0.95 0.64
Jose Reyes 23 SS 2006 29.58 0.92 1.00 1.00 1.00 0.95 0.55
Jose Reyes 22 SS 2005 29.58 0.95 0.99 1.00 0.98 0.96 0.68
Willie Wilson 30 CF 1985 29.57 0.92 0.94 1.00 0.93 0.91 0.95
Maury Wills 33 SS 1965 29.57 0.94 0.99 0.66 0.96 0.96 0.99
Willie McGee 27 CF 1985 29.56 0.92 0.95 0.99 0.96 0.99 0.93
Curtis Granderson 26 CF 2007 29.55 1.00 0.82 1.00 0.99 0.99 0.98
Bert Campaneris 24 SS 1966 29.54 0.99 0.98 0.94 0.98 0.95 0.84
Rickey Henderson 26 CF 1985 29.53 1.00 0.98 0.76 1.00 0.81 0.99
Byron Buxton 23 CF 2017 29.53 1.00 0.98 0.96 0.90 1.00 0.99
Freddie Patek 27 SS 1971 29.53 0.93 1.00 0.99 0.95 0.92 0.93
Ray Lankford 24 CF 1991 29.53 0.76 0.99 1.00 0.99 0.95 0.92
Willie Wilson 28 CF 1983 29.51 0.99 0.94 0.88 0.99 0.96 0.94
Cesar Tovar 29 CF 1969 29.51 0.94 0.98 0.74 1.00 0.89 0.96
Billy Hamilton 24 CF 2014 29.50 0.80 1.00 0.93 0.93 1.00 0.92

Out of these Top 20 fastest seasons, 5’4″ Freddie Patek is white. Bert Campaneris of Cuba is beige with wooly hair. Everybody else is more or less black.

One amusing aspect is that arguably the fastest player in the National League in the 2010s, Billy Hamilton, has the same name as the fastest player in the NL in the 1890s, Billy Hamilton. Despite being different races, the two centerfielder-base stealer Billy Hamiltons had a lot in common (although, then again, the first BH was much better at being a singles hitter).

There are some park effects on speed: Willie Wilson in Kansas City in 1980 was playing on hard Astroturf, but yeah he was really fast. That was the year that George Brett averaged more than 1 RBI per game and one reason was because Wilson was flying around the bases when Brett would hit the ball. Patek’s fast season came at Kansas City too.

And here are the slowest seasons since Willie Mays arrived in 1951:
Slowest Player Seasons, 1951-2017

First Last Age Pos Yr Pred SS (ft/s) F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6
Lance Parrish 31  C 1987 24.65 0.06 0.05 0.04 0.00 0.00 0.03
David Ortiz 39 DH 2014 24.80 0.11 0.03 0.08 0.00 0.01 0.15
Joe Oliver 28  C 1993 24.83 0.16 0.01 0.05 0.00 0.28 0.04
Fred Kendall 27  C 1976 24.91 0.23 0.08 0.02 0.00 0.04 0.02
Mo Vaughn 31 1B 1999 24.92 0.16 0.02 0.08 0.00 0.25 0.12
Willie McCovey 39 1B 1977 24.92 0.65 0.06 0.01 0.00 0.01 0.16
A.J. Pierzynski 34  C 2011 24.93 0.08 0.01 0.20 0.03 0.04 0.04
Dave Valle 33  C 1993 24.93 0.34 0.04 0.05 0.02 0.06 0.04
Bengie Molina 34  C 2008 24.94 0.14 0.02 0.04 0.00 0.12 0.03
A.J. Ellis 31  C 2012 25.02 0.11 0.02 0.36 0.00 0.06 0.03

McCovey and Mo Vaughn are African-American, David “Big Papi” Ortiz is a black Dominican, and Bengie Molina is a mulatto Puerto Rican. The other 6 are white.

So, the point is that the racial stereotype that the blacker the faster is fairly true in major league baseball, but are there are definitely exceptions.

It’s worth pointing out that just about every sports fan more or less knows this racial stereotype is true, and yet, amazingly, the world has not ended. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, sabermetricians have not therefore reanimated Hitler’s skull.

Another useful analogy: think about traits among siblings and cousins. Race is like family, but mostly less so, although for some traits (such as skin color) more so.

Diversity within races is kind of like diversity within families. E.g., in baseball history, there were 3 DiMaggio Brothers in the 1940s from San Francisco and 3 Alou Brothers in the 1960s from the Dominican Republic, but they had different profiles. Singles hitter Dom DiMaggio was, arguably, more like singles hitter Matty Alou from a baseball statistics perspective than he was like Vince DiMaggio, who swung for the fences and struck out a lot.

Of course, anybody who makes the big leagues is a 99th percentile baseball player relative to the general population.

 
Hide 199 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Trelane says:

    There is more variance within races than between for any trait where the two groups differ by less than two standard deviations.

    To understand the above, college-reading-level sentence you need to have an IQ >>1 s.d. on average.

    The great majority of people are too dull to comprehend elementary probability and statistics.

  2. Agreed: height isn’t exactly the best example of “diversity between races” but I suppose it does offer the advantage that you can talk about it–carefully!–without having your life ruined as a result. So there’s that.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  3. res says:

    It’s worth thinking about how the genetic diversity translates into phenotypic diversity (which is really what matters).

    Two populations which are separated for a substantial period of time will accumulate genetic differences randomly, but much of that variation has little or no effect on phenotype.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_theory_of_molecular_evolution

    But if the two populations are under different selection pressures then there are likely to be systematic differences affecting the phenotypes under selection.

    • Thanks: vhrm
  4. Peterike says:

    Race this race that blah blah blah… yet any six year old can, with 100% accuracy, pick out the Chinaman from within a group of negroes, even if tested 10,000 times.

  5. Anonymous[836] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    There is more variation within the lgbtq community than between it and heterosexuals. Therefore, there’s no such thing as gays.

  6. In many states, a defendant in a criminal case can request a jury instruction regarding “cross-racial identification.” Basically, its a consistent statistical fact that people have an easier time identifying people of their own race than other races. So a black defendant who is ID’d by a white victim on the stand can ask that the jury be instructed that the white victim’s ID of him might be less-reliable than if the defendant had been white.

    This is something you find allowed and pushed in blue states as well as red.

    Once I found out about all that, any argument that “race is a social construct” elicits nothing but laughter from me.

  7. Mike Tre says:

    “Somebody brings up a common and not terrible argument: there is more diversity within races than between races”

    As far as genetics goes, the above statement is the last refuge for scoundrels.

    • Replies: @a Newsreader
  8. donut says:

    OT but never OT .

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  9. Oh, those emerging orthodoxies!

  10. Anonymous[255] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: For those who still find it endlessly confusing when attempting to decide whether it’s Trump Supporters, or BLM who have a distinct undertow of fascist tendencies, I believe the problem can be simplified by successfully identifying which group seems to have, when push comes to shove, a propensity for chasing Jews:

    • Replies: @Polistra
    , @anon
    , @Lurker
  11. donut says:

    Just a guess but I would bet money that the finale to “Better Call Saul” is going to be a disappointment . What do say ?

    • Replies: @Travis
  12. Dogs, stick to dogs, if you really want to influence large numbers of people. It’s my understanding that the between-breed variance is of magnitude comparable to intra-species variance, and in that regard is analogous to the relationship of races within the human species. Once people are told that, by the same reasoning that tells us that race is a social construct, the apparent difference between a Chihuahua and a Newfoundland is not grounded in biological reality, they’ll realize what a colossal line of guff they’ve been fed. Use actual numbers for the F1st statistic – they’re out there somewhere. Let people know that the Lewonten “fallacy” is actually a hoax, and one of the most socially destructive hate-hoaxes in all history, in that it gives pseudoscientific grounding to the notion that negroes have been victimized by systemic racism spanning all of time and place.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    , @Bert
    , @Reg Cæsar
  13. Some Guy says:
    @Trelane

    There is more variance within races than between for any trait where the two groups differ by less than two standard deviations.

    Can you explain why it isn’t 1 SD?

  14. Kronos says:

    Still one of the best books I’ve read on the subject.

    In Hell:

    1) The Puritans run the Police.

    2) The Cavaliers run the Education System.

    3) The Quakers run the Army.

    4) The Scot/Irish run the Judgeships.

  15. From a strictly genetic standpoint, crocodiles are closer to birds than they are to lizards, but are their lives more similar to birds or lizards?

  16. OT yet another woman “Studies” academic unmasked for passing as a non-white.

    https://producingwhiteness.medium.com/kelly-kean-sharp-chicana-54ea6a866af

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Anon
    , @S. Anonyia
  17. Anon[385] • Disclaimer says:

    The correct response to this is, Yes, you’re right, and so what?

    For IQ there is a 1 standard deviation difference between racial averages, i.e. between the peaks of the black and the white bell curves. But the bell curves’ widths are two, four, six, eight (it depends onhow far into the tails you want to go) standard deviations. Let’s say six, which covers about 99.7 percent of the population. “6 is bigger than 1. Case closed. Drop the mic. Differences between races are not meaningful,” or so would say the supporters of this neo-Lewontin fallacy. But the difference is massive and accelerates very fast at the tails of the bell curves.

    Let’s examine some things that are true despite 6 being larger than 1:

    1. One in six blacks is mentally retarded, according to the sub-70 IQ classification that used to be called EMR, educable mental retardation. Only 1 in 50 whites are. This has real consequences when you dictate that school districts cannot track class levels, disproportionately discipline black kids in class (some of which is caused by their excrutiating bordome of being mismatched to the class material), or disproportionately assign kids to special education. Whites lose, smarter blacks lose, retarded blacks lose.

    [MORE]

    2. One in six white kids is talented and 1 in 50 is gifted. But only 1 in 50 black kids is talented, and only 1 in 1,000 is gifted. If you insisted upon proportional representation, you have black kids who cannot handle truly higher level material being in talented classes and in gifted classes, so the classes have been dumbed down into museum trip classes. AP classes as well as private extracurricular math classes and tutoring have taken over for tracked and talented and gifted classes to a certain extent, . But public schools and poorer but smart students suffer.

    3. The same ratios apply in education and in employment. The “mere” 1 standard deviation average difference in the “vast ocean” of a six standard deviation span, where the “vast range” of IQs “overlap” means that, for instance, if you define the standard IQ for being an attorney as 120, with 110 to 130 covering the middle 4 standard deviations (per Gottfredson), then 23 percent of whites can qualify for a career in the law, while only 3 percent of blacks can. Add to this the fact that there are five times more whites than blacks. And add to this that half of these black would-be lawyers are in the 110-114 IQ range and in general hardly any are in the top ten percent and a large number are in the bottom ten percent. What this means is that if you see a black attorney, he is going to be mediocre. (I won’t go into the theory that blacks avoid professions that take a lot of work and time in the trenches because similarly remunerative but easier 9-to-5 jobs are available from employers who need visible, countable black employees.)

    4. Racial proportionality only exists for the slightly dull IQ rangs of 92-93, which is the lowish end of the IQ range for police officers, for instance. Below that blacks predominate, while anything above that will have whites and Asians predominating.

    • Replies: @res
  18. OT:

    How will the Boomers here ever recover? The Greatest of All Time himself has endorsed Trump.

    https://twitter.com/jacknicklaus/status/1321631802004541440/photo/1

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
  19. Manute Bol was taller than his fellow Dinka NBA player Luol Deng, as is Manute’s son Bol Bol.

    Wait a manute… Bol passed the bol to his boy? Is his other son named Jump Bol, perchance?

    A Dinka only needs to be tall enough so his lips reach an oxtail. Whatever do they derive from this rite? Dinka Dinka doo?

    [MORE]

  20. @Kronos

    5) The Dutch cook.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  21. What if you take a single trait like skin color? Is there really more variation among West Africans than between West Africans and Chinese?

  22. anon[223] • Disclaimer says:

    Race isn’t a social construct, but society IS a racial construct.

    If race is a social construct then so is color (and, well, everything: planets, lakes, continents…)

    The argument either goes that race “doesn’t exist” because there’s not universal agreement on how many races there are and/or there exist ambiguous cases, like mixed race people, or that race is “socially constructed” because there exist societies like, say, Brazil which draw the lines between races is slightly different places than they are drawn in the USA.

    Of course, the same is true of color: there’s not universal agreement on how many colors there are or where exactly red becomes orange, or green becomes blue. Yet, no one seriously contends that “color doesn’t exist”. Nor do they contend that color is “socially constructed” because there exist cultures that draw the lines between them in different places. In fact, there exist cultures which don’t have distinct words for “green” and “blue” at all, but only one word for both: “grue” if you will. Yet, no one seriously contends that this fact proves that color is a “social construct”.

    In fact, while neither race nor color are social constructs, language IS a social construct. The words you choose for things that exist in objective reality are socially constructed conventions. What these left wing sophists try to do is confer the socially constructed nature of language onto the thing being described with that language. They say that because culture A draws the white/black line in a slightly different place than in culture B that therefore white and black don’t exist in objective reality, but only in our heads. In reality, it’s just the language we use to describe these categories that is socially constructed as language actually does exist only “in one’s head” or in society’s collective head.

    The same arguments apply to planets “what’s the line between a big asteroid and a small planet” to mountains “big hill or small mountain” and puddles/lakes/oceans, islands/continents and every other species on the planet. The same fallacious argument can be applied to everything, but the sophists only choose to use this argument with one thing in particular: race.

    The other silly argument you hear is that the races are “99.5%” genetically identical, or whatever the going figure is. But then you hear that humans and chimpanzees are “98.2%” identical, and humans and dogs are “92%” genetically identical and suddenly the 0.5% that differentiates the races of man sounds like a lot.

    How do they arrive at this number? By comparing gene frequencies. This is like arguing that the Bible and Moby Dick are “95% identical” because they use the letters of the alphabet with “95%” identical frequency and/or they employ the same words with “95%” identical frequency. It’s like arguing that humans and dogs are “99.5%” identical because, at an atomic level, they’re both 68% oxygen, 14% carbon, 12% hydrogen, 3% calcium, … +/- 1/2 a percent. Lol.

    Anyway, a single character change in the software of life, the billions of characters which make up your DNA, can completely break or alter its behavior, so this is obviously all silly nonsensical statistical mumbo jumbo.

    • Replies: @res
  23. AndrewR says:

    I always say race is like the seasons. May is generally much warmer in Minneapolis than March. But it’s quite possible that March 20th next year will be warmer than May 20th. I wouldn’t bet on it, but it’s possible.

    The 99th percentile comment reminds me of being in sixth grade and having the high school football coach, along with a few of his players, talk to my class. He said something like “I push my players hard even though their chance of making the NFL is one in a million.” Emphasis on “one in a million.” Even at 12 I realized this dude was an idiot. It turns out two guys I went to that very high school with ended up in the NFL. One was in my class and the other a couple years younger.

    • Replies: @Matt Buckalew
  24. @Trelane

    [1] There is more variance within races than between for any trait where the two groups differ by less than two standard deviations.

    [2] To understand the above, college-reading-level sentence you need to have an IQ >>1 s.d. on average.

    Hi Trelane, I am trying to understand [1], but I question whether [2] is even true. By definition, the average IQ among whites is 100, and one standard deviation is defined to be 15 IQ points. To understand [1], you assert, one must have an IQ that is much greater than 1 standard deviation, which is 15 IQ points. 80 is much greater than 15. So you are asserting that an IQ of 80 is sufficient to to understand [1]. Is that what you meant to say?

    Also, Steve says, “[T]here is a fair amount of diversity in average phenotypic height between white Americans versus Asian-Americans and Mexican-Americans.” Diversity within a group is measured by the standard deviation of a large set of numbers, e.g. the heights of all the members of the group. But the average height of white Americans and the average height of Asian-Americans are exactly two number. What is the diversity between these two numbers? Is it defined to be the difference between these two numbers, e.g., two inches?

    • Replies: @International Jew
  25. AndrewR says:
    @jimmyriddle

    Merely pretending to have a Mexican abuela is a lot different from what the other frauds have done, especially Dolezal. Having said that, when identity is the name of the game, and “oppressed” identities trump “oppressor” identities 100% of the time, as they do across the left/lib spectrum and increasingly across mainstream conservatism, singling out these people as individuals is pointless. Yes, I’m sure they’re all terrible people, but terrible people exist in every time and clime. Why are terrible people in 21st century US LARPing as members of “oppressed” groups for career advancement?

  26. Anon[353] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    For any of you who remember the Charles Murray appearance on the Sam Harris podcast and the extended controversy that ensued, some news: A major Murray-endorsed, Murray-defending article on Medium has unfortunately been deleted.

    The background: Sam Harris was incensed that Charles Murray was deplatformed at Middlebury College, read the Bell Curve, and invited Murray on his show to discuss it in 2017. Harris is a left-wing-except-for-that-Islamophilia-stuff guy and has a UCLA Ph.D. in neuroscience.

    The show triggered a thousand web articles and a million tweets criticising Harris for offering Murray a platform, and for not spending the whole two-and-a-half hours yelling at Murray.

    This triggered two articles at Vox by left-wing psychologist/psychometricians and a spew of articles and podcasts by Ezra Klein, directed against Harris and Murray.

    I consider the two Vox articles very important documents. They were my entré into this whole HBD world. Why? Because they were written by leftists (Eric Turkheimer, Kathryn Paige Harden, and Richard Nisbett), highly qualified, and they effectively agreed with most of what Murray said in the Bell Curve … except for two things:

    [MORE]

    — They (or at least Nisbett) think that the IQ gap is 10 points, not 15, and …

    — They think that it’s still possible the cause is entirely enviornmental.

    So they explicitly admitted, on a progressive website, that IQ is valid, can be determined, has real-world consequences, race is real, blacks have lower IQ, and that IQ is heritable (in the technical sense, which doesn’t imply genetics). This was a massive retreat from 1990s leftist positions. Normally people have they defenses engaged when reading on this topics. But your defenses are down when reading Vox. Nobody expects racists to be writing there.

    So their two articles in Vox are thus really important. If you want to convice someone about HBD, who do you direct him to? That Steve Sailer Nazi guy who is in the SPLC database? Or Vox/Turkheimer et al.?

    https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5/18/15655638/charles-murray-race-iq-sam-harris-science-free-speech

    https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/15/15797120/race-black-white-iq-response-critics

    Thus it is with sadness that I report that the third leg of the stool, a Medium piece entitled “The cherry picked science in Vox’s Charles Murray article,” endorsed by Murray on Twitter and cited by Nisbett in the second Vox piece, disappeared sometime after mid-August, although the Wayback Machine still has it:

    https://medium.com/@houstoneuler/the-cherry-picked-science-in-voxs-charles-murray-article-bd534a9c4476

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200701082257/https://medium.com/@houstoneuler/the-cherry-picked-science-in-voxs-charles-murray-article-bd534a9c4476

    This article surfaced the published science used by, but not explicitly cited in the initial Vox piece, and explained why it didn’t support their conclusions. And it was updated after the second Vox piece.

    The author “Noam” was reportedly a Ph.D. candidate in something or other and got his degree earlier this year. I always thought that he was using a pseudonym. I think he published one piece in Quillette under his pseudonym and also one HSB piece at The Jacobin (which shows how unpredictable the super-left Jacobin is). The Jacobin piece has disappeared, and the main Twitter account associated with Noam has disappeared. A second Noam account has had all its tweets deleted. I won’t give Noam’s last name (even if it’s a pseudonym) just in case it’s not a pseudonym and he wants to lay low.

    I’m guessing Noam is looking for a job and is fearful of being doxxed and cancelled, or has already been uncovered by potential employers. Too bad.

    • Thanks: vhrm, MEH 0910
  27. OT: Demonstrators stabbed during large rally at River Park in northeast Fresno

    Not BLM/Antifa

    Three people were stabbed during a demonstration Wednesday night near River Park Shopping Center in northeast Fresno.

    Fresno police said a man got upset around 6:30 p.m. that some of the demonstrators from the “Stand with Armenia” rally were causing standstill traffic, blocking the flow of on the road with cars parked in the northbound lanes of Blackstone Avenue near Nees Avenue.

    Chaos ensued.

    The agitated man got out of his car and confronted some among the approximate 150 demonstrators at the southeast corner of the popular intersection near the “River Park” sign, according to Lt. Israel Reyes.

    “A couple of the individuals that were part of the protest decided they were going to park their vehicles in the northbound lanes of Blackstone,” Reyes said. “That irritated a lot of people. …

    More:

    https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/crime/article246795297.html

    • Replies: @anonymous1963
    , @AnotherDad
  28. Anon[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @jimmyriddle

    OT yet another woman “Studies” academic unmasked for passing as a non-white.

    https://producingwhiteness.medium.com/kelly-kean-sharp-chicana-54ea6a866af

    That exposé is the research equivalent of a Ph.D. thesis. Whoever wrote it must be, like its victim, an academic historian, given all the data assembled, down to census records. If you’re going to do something, do it right.

    She has ghosted herself, but for some reason her website is still up:

    https://kellyksharp.com/cv-2/

    She has a book scheduled for publication by Cambridge University Press in April of next year. I wonder what will happen to that?

  29. @Ripple Earthdevil

    So you are an ordinary American Joe and you are driving home from work in California and a bunch of clowns decide to block the road to “stand with Armenia” some two-bit country five or six thousand miles away most people couldn’t find on an atlas. Then it leads to violence.

    ISN’T DIVERSITY JUST GREAT?

  30. Let’s take the traditional position numbers, 1-9, designating DH as 0, and apply them. They seem to correlate with speed– catcher, first base, and designated hitter are dumping grounds for the slow, and the outfield requires speed. A pitcher’s speed, like his bat, is of little consequence.

    The positions of the 20 fastest seasons average out to 7.05, or left field. The 10 slowest come to 2.0, or catcher.

    Stretching “on-topic” a bit, the World’s Most Important Graph has a counterpart– four billion could easily fit in Africa at other countries’ present density:

    Though they might not appreciate being that close to one another:

  31. I could probably find you an old horse somewhere, that runs slower than Ussain Bolt. Thus proving that there’s more diversity within people and horses, than between them.

    And don’t even let me get started about my parrot, who makes way more sense than Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  32. black American Hall of Famers were well below major league average in footspeed … Roy Campanella

    Especially since January 1958

  33. Off topic but exceptional fodder for i-steve content

    There is no gender gap in chess

    https://en.chessbase.com/post/what-gender-gap-in-chess

    “The author [of a study being critiqued] notes that the top two female players, Hou Yifan and Koneru Humpy, are ranked only 86th and 283rd in the world, that no woman has been world champion, and that the gap between the best female and best male player is 205 Elo points. These arguments are all variations on a common theme: whatever metric of top players you use, women are clearly worse than men. There is a huge flaw in this argument: to fairly compare an underrepresented to an overrepresented group, you should never use the top individuals. That is a form of statistical malpractice that wouldn’t stand in an introductory college course.”

    Chess statisticians are even wonkier than baseball stats. For instance, if you know a player’s username from a popular chess site, you can get an enormous amount of stats and preferences on that player using a site like http://www.openingtree.com. But, don’t trust your lying eyes about female chess inferiority. And don’t look at all the grandmasters from impoverished s_holes. It’s obviously oppression that’s keeping the fair sex out of the game.

    On this point you might recall Scott Alexander’s review of Judit Polgar’s dad’s book on child-rearing where he essentially took out an op ed for a wife that wanted to raise children in a scientific way by drilling them to death on one thing. Oddly, a woman did respond. And, though they only had two daughters, those two dominated women’s chess.

  34. @Peterike

    any six year

    No, you see that just proves we need vigorous antiracist education starting well before age six.

    • LOL: peterike
    • Replies: @hhsiii
    , @tyrone
  35. Polistra says:

    Start ’em in the crib. If they refuse to take a knee, slap em around a bit. Consider what’s at stake, people. A little baby slapping is a very small price to pay.

    • LOL: HammerJack
  36. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Standard deviation isn’t the only valid measure of variability. In any event, Trelane seems to be vaguely remembering something about T statistics and confidence intervals. I say, he’s now been kicked around just about the right amount.

    • Disagree: res
  37. Polistra says:
    @Anonymous

    What were they doing there?

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  38. @International Jew

    So your parrot doesn’t have an economics degree from Boston College?

    • Replies: @International Jew
  39. Commiserations. Still, it’s easier than understanding the distinctions of what is and isn’t “bluegrass?”

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  40. @res

    It’s worth thinking about how the genetic diversity translates into phenotypic diversity (which is really what matters).

    I think that’s right. In the abstract, “difference” vs. “similarity” is nothing but a semantic word game. It’s like asking “how long is a piece of string”? You can’t begin to consider the question without at least a third point of reference

    For example, are cats and dogs more alike than they are different? Who’s to say?

    You could ask if cats and dogs share more in common with each other than they do with, say, horses. But even then your conclusion would depends on what weight you give to your criteria for measuring difference/sameness.

    Cats and dogs might be more alike in intelligence to one anoher than they are to horses. But horses and dogs may be more alike in being able to pull a sled.

    At the end of the day, whether you lump or split two categories should just depend on whether it is useful to do so. If the population groups we have traditionally called “races” have recognizable phenotype differences that have consequences in the real world (e.g., physical appearance, disease propensities, intelligence, behavior), then it’s useful to recognize those racial categories.

    Insisting that what we call “race” can only be defined by some specific ratio between abstract intra and inter group differences seems totally arbitrary, pointless. and futile. By the same token, refusing to apply the word “race” to different groups isn’t going to make their differences go away.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  41. Kronos says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Damn! I forgot about New Amsterdam (current New York.)

  42. @Pat Hannagan

    My mrs to this day defies me that there is such a musical genre as “low-fi” since she contends that all modern musical production must be “hi-fi” by definition, and all “low-fi” must be dialing it back, inserting corruption over something pure, no matter how I attempt to explain the genre to her she’ll have none of it.

    To your next low-fi, two term, President Trump

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    , @duncsbaby
  43. can’t speak to it all, but the ‘Slowest player’ rankings are utter crap. we get the Angels on TV where I live. Mrs Stinggy thinks Mike Trout is the bees knees, (“He’s the God of WAR!”) so we watch a lotta Angels ballgames. the Angels have this guy, see, this **really really slow guy:** Albert Pujols. Pujols, when he played for the Cardinals way back when, was truly an all-timer. his first 10 years are about as good as it gets, (approx .330/.625/1.050) and better than just about any player since… oh…. Ted Williams? a _significantly_ better hitter than Mantle, Mays, and A-Rod, anyway, and they’re all bonafide all-timers. the Cards must have been crazy to let him go!! right???

    AP signed with the Angels, for 10 or 50 or a hundred years, (LOL), and – as the Angels found out – he’d been lying about his age. he wasn’t X like they thought, he was X+4. surprise! he got bald and grumpy, and the infields all shifted on him, and his old man legs got HEAVY. Pujols ain’t on the ‘Slow’ list? then that list is bogus. AP is a double-play machine. he makes it even better by not bothering to jog to first half the time. why the hell should he? Fat Old Albert’s got an ironclad contract that pays him $27MM a year til 2079.

    if Pujols ran *just a tiny hair slower* I’m pretty sure he could go backwards in time.

    • LOL: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  44. @Redneck farmer

    No, but if he’d gone to college, I guarantee you he would have learned more than she did.

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  45. Another useful analogy: think about traits among siblings and cousins. Race is like family, but mostly less so, although for some traits (such as skin color) more so.

    There is quite considerably more variation within races than between races on most features except those that are considered distinctive racial markers (e.g. skin color); and since these latter traits are often felt to be somewhat superficial, this is what gives rise to the sentiment that race isn’t very well defined.

    Therefore I have been at pains to show that if race is real, it must refer to something more than a collection of outward phenomena.

    • Agree: jim jones
  46. @stingaling

    Since 2015 they’ve been measuring actual running speed and Pujols shows up on that list of slowest moving players.

    Slowest Player Seasons of Statcast Era
    First Last Age Pos Yr SS (ft/s) Pred SS F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7
    Albert Pujols 37 DH 2017 22.99 25.44 0.63 0.28 0.13 0.02 0.10 0.20 0.06
    Brian McCann 33  C 2017 23.39 25.76 0.37 0.14 0.34 0.24 0.29 0.06 0.10
    Brian McCann 32  C 2016 23.46 25.08 0.41 0.13 0.11 0.20 0.03 0.06 0.01
    Albert Pujols 36 DH 2016 23.67 25.71 0.75 0.33 0.11 0.12 0.14 0.20 0.24
    Dioner Navarro 32  C 2016 23.69 26.35 0.05 0.49 0.73 0.18 0.76 0.06 0.23
    Brian McCann 31  C 2015 23.83 25.66 0.20 0.05 0.25 0.50 0.67 0.06 0.14
    Victor Martinez 37 DH 2016 24.01 25.29 0.18 0.06 0.11 0.05 0.19 0.20 0.27
    Bobby Wilson 33  C 2016 24.09 25.41 0.18 0.06 0.11 0.54 0.39 0.06 0.15
    Dae-Ho Lee 34 1B 2016 24.16 25.51 0.18 0.06 0.11 0.12 0.36 0.20 0.53
    Nick Swisher 35 LF 2015 24.25 25.40 0.20 0.05 0.11 0.00 0.05 0.75 0.07

    • LOL: SunBakedSuburb
    • Replies: @hhsiii
  47. @Some Guy

    Someguy was referring indirectly to the feature of a Gaussian distribution that 95% of the outcomes are within 1.96 standard deviations of the mean (often rounded to two, to make it easy to remember). I agree with you and blake121666 that his statement is a mis-application of that “two standard deviation rule of thumb”. That rule does not apply here. If two groups have probability distribution of a trait whose averages differ by even 1/4 of one standard deviation then the two distributions are very easily distinguished. Large sample averages from the two groups will differ substantially, even for relatively small differences in the true mean. The sample of extreme observations (STEM graduates, welfare recipients) will be very tilted toward one group for the negative-outcome traits and the other group for the positive-outcome traits. The “two standard deviation rule of thumb” does not apply here. It is a mis-application.

  48. @Pat Hannagan

    Every early 1970s band desperately clinging to the contract and reality of the label’s producer’s timetable of album sales eventually turned to a style of jazz-rock-fusion to fill the void.

    After all, King Crimson set the benchamark:

    Record producers always knew the difference

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  49. ATBOTL says:

    OT, but an important fact about one of Steve’s favorite topics:

    Sacha Baron Cohen has made a career out of promoting mindless bigotry and hate against the people of Kazakhstan. But in real life, Filipp Goloshchyokin, a Jew, lead the genocidal communist forced collectivization against the people of Kazakhstan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipp_Goloshchyokin#Goloshchekin_Genocide

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  50. @Pat Hannagan

    It’s like being asked to play a sad song because you broke up.

    There’s Elton John Sad Song (say so much), there’s Bruce Sprinsgteen At the River, there’s Lennon doing Mother, Working Class Hero, or whatever you got. Then there’s Stephen Stills’ 4+20

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
  51. hhsiii says:
    @International Jew

    My 4-year-old is doing blended learning this year. 2-3 days a week in school, 2-3 on line, but only for about twenty minutes. There’s a main teacher and teaching assistants. When the TA first showed up on screen on his first day of on-line learning he laughed and pointed at the screen and said “Look at the black one!”

  52. Steve, haven’t heard your podcast yet but wanted to get in first that you really should do a weekly half hour summary of your blog with this as your theme song

    Such a perfect ANTI-racist tune what with being pro black women and at the same time pro White people with the best of Led Zep and a tribute to a particular geographical clime of our kind

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  53. hhsiii says:
    @Steve Sailer

    6 of the top ten in sprint speed this year were white, including the fastest, Tim Locastro. And the aptly named Eli White. I think that’s on average.

    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/sprint_speed?year=2020&position=&team=&min=10&sort=7&sortDir=desc

    Freddie Platek hit 41 home runs in over 6000 plate appearances. And 3 in one game against Boston. With a double.

  54. duncsbaby says:
    @carl larsson

    I just heard today on a youtube video that former Beverly Hills madam, Heidi Fleiss, was a chess champion in high school. She says this was helpful in jail when winning chess matches could get you some much needed commissary snacks.

    • Replies: @utu
  55. duncsbaby says:
    @Pat Hannagan

    I like Ty Segall, he reminds me of a slowed down Jay Reatard:

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  56. @Pat Hannagan

    I took myself off to see The Outpost at Katoomba half priced Tuesday this week, what a movie

    There I was sitting in the comfort of a cinema watching reproduction of corporate america’s reduction of a middle eastern whatever it was

    I went to see it alone and likewise I warn all fellow White men and their children don’t enrol your children in the war machine

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  57. Somebody brings up a common and not terrible argument: there is more diversity within races than between races.

    It’s like: there is a more variety of sexual practices among heterosexual men as such, as well as among homosexual men, if we take them as two separate sexual groups – then it is between homo & hetero groups of men.

    Perhaps.

    But the crucial difference is that homo & hetero men fundamentally differ in one tiny proclivity that clearly makes them two very different groups of men.

  58. Anon55uu says:

    Frank Thomas may have grown into being slow rather than being naturally slow. He played both ways in high school football and played one season of college football at Auburn as a Tight End. It was only after an ankle injury that he concentrated only on baseball.

  59. El Dato says:
    @carl larsson

    Maybe my stats are rusty, but that sounds like Bad Statistics.

    If the null hypotheses is that chess skills are identically distributed in the male and female hypotheses, then the alternative hypotheses, that this is not the case, should be tested and rejected.

    Instead an argument is made that the null hypothesis is actually true. This may be the case, but the data does not allow that conclusion.

    This is all very dubious.

  60. vhrm says:
    @carl larsson

    Off the cuff i’d say his argument COULD make sense (assuming the math works out) if you could guarantee that chess players are randomly selected from all men and all women.

    Since it’s more likely the case that ranked chess players are actually among the best chess players out there, the lack of representation ALSO means that his scaled comparison compares the performance of (say) the top 1% of women vs the top 15% of men and saying those are comparable. (his sample is 94% men and 6% women so a ratio of 15:1). That’s equivalent of saying the the 99th percentile woman is equivalent to the 85th percentile man which would imply over 1sd difference between the means of the groups (something like 1.4 i think)

    • Agree: Some Guy
  61. @Pat Hannagan

    First minute is yet somehow unclaimed by any podcast

    I’m free to do a weekly 3 minute round up with Sailer, Coulter and Bannon call it 3 irish niggers

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  62. Pericles says:
    @carl larsson

    And, though they only had two daughters, those two dominated women’s chess.

    Three daughters, to be precise. Also:

    Polgár said in 1992 that he now wanted “to break the racial barriers in the virtually all-white chess world” by adopting “a black infant from the Third World” whom he would train to become a chess prodigy.[2] Susan recalled in 2005 that, about 15 years earlier, “a very nice Dutch billionaire named Joop van Oosterom” had offered to help Polgár “adopt three boys from a developing country and raise them exactly as they raised us.” Polgár, according to Susan, “really wanted to do it, but my mother talked him out of it. She understood that life is not only about chess, and that all the rest would fall on her lap.”[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r

    I bet that would have been a lot of fun that could never be published, but because of based mom now we’ll never know.

  63. @Pat Hannagan

    To this summer, me and the Australian Outback

    I’ve got several destinations marked out on my map in tribute to Burke and Wills and all White explorers whose maps I’ll transverse, visiting every corner of NSW, the greatest state of Australia

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  64. @Pat Hannagan

    I’m hanging here with ya mate

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  65. M_Young says:
    @Trelane

    Wouldn’t this depend on sample size.

  66. Altai says:

    Somebody brings up a common and not terrible argument: there is more diversity within races than between races.

    Because I sort of agree with that proposition, I’d be slightly less unpopular if I dogmatically repeated it on all occasions: “There is more diversity within races than between races!”

    But … that’s clearly not true for all traits. Moreover, I don’t really know how to test whether it’s true on average. It seems more scientific to both look for examples that support and examples that invalidate that assertion. If you are open-minded, you can find all sorts of interesting and pragmatic patterns.

    It doesn’t really make sense. ‘Races’ just represent genetic bottleneck events for the most part. Sub-Saharan Africans have more genetic variants of all kinds than Indo-Europeans who have more than East Asians and Amerindians.

    If you’re talking about allele frequencies within a race maybe having more even ratios that will look very similar to the effects of a genetic bottleneck or lack thereof.

    If you’re talking about variants with apparent significance, that’s hard to quantify yet since a lot of things (Including important things) seem to be polymorphic and so far most research has been conducted on European populations giving a skewed perspective on functionality. Even in terms of what SNPs were used on the arrays on which the vast majority of data used in previous research was based on variability in Europeans.

    The differences between groups of the same race will always be less than those between those groups and groups of other races. Unless you’re talking about specific traits, but you’d have to define those.

    • Agree: Travis, Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @utu
  67. Is There More Diversity Within or Between Races?

    Fabolous perhaps said it best.

    Oops, wrong one …

  68. @Pat Hannagan

    Really want hear one tree hill without the american bullshit intro

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  69. @Altai

    There is more diversity within a canine species we call “dogs”, then it is between them and another canine species we call “wolves”.

    Does it mean that “dogs” and “wolves” are superfluous, unnecessary or misleading labels which do not reflect fundamental difference between dogs & wolves?

  70. I intraclass correlation coefficient, ICC quantifies within vs between group differences. However, there are different formulations. The one from ANOVA is common and useful.

    For few groups, a Visual comparison can use violin plots https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_plot

    For large numbers of groups, a caterpillar plot is useful. https://www.rdocumentation.org/packages/LaplacesDemon/versions/16.1.4/topics/caterpillar.plot

    These help clarify the mean, median, and spread of a variable. Caterpillar plots are often used pedagogical to explain within and between variance.

    The value of an ICC considered useful is debated, but 0.10 (90% within) can have substantial predictive power. So “More within than between” literally implies that group differences matter . The debate is over, and turns to “How much?”

  71. Anyone in doubt about the biological reality of race and ethnicity should take an autosomal DNA test. I took two such tests – one from Ancestry and the other from FamilyTreeDNA – and both say that I am 95% Irish.

  72. OT, more church killings in France. Used to only happen in Pakistan or Egypt.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8892233/Multiple-people-stabbed-terrorist-knife-attack-church-Nice.html

    France has been struck by two terror attacks within hours of each other as three people were killed – two of them beheaded – in an attack in Nice before a gunman was shot dead by police in Avignon.

    The first attack began around 9am at the Notre Dame cathedral in Nice where a knifeman beheaded an elderly female parishioner and a male church warden, fatally stabbed a second woman, wounded several others, and was then shot and arrested by police.

    Two hours later, a gunman threatened people on the streets of Avignon – 120 miles from Nice – while shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ before he was fatally shot by police.

    Elsewhere, a security guard at the French consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, was also stabbed and wounded. The guard was taken to hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

    The attacks come amid fury across the Islamic world at President Macron ..

    And what I can only call The Absolute State Of Liverpool

    A teenage boy of 16 raped an 11-year-old girl at a house party and fled to Slovakia while on bail after his mother managed to apply for emergency travel documents – despite the fact police had seized his passport, a court has heard.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8892453/Teenage-boy-16-raped-11-year-old-girl-house-party-fled-Slovakia-bail.html

    Marek Slepcik stripped off his victim’s clothes and attacked her at a house in Kensington, Liverpool, in July 2016 after she had spent the day drinking vodka in a park with friends.

    Words fail me.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  73. Against all sort of physical jostling against my night’s end easy into a swans song

    Into temptation

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
  74. @Pat Hannagan

    Against all the spotty whores lip syncing their way into an early marriage.

  75. Travis says:
    @donut

    yes, the last few seasons have been a disappointment, would be unlikely to suddenly have a good season after several tedious seasons.

  76. @Pat Hannagan

    Just wish I got the chance to dag about in his company

  77. @Kronos

    No, no, and no.

    1) The Scot/Irish are the police.

    2) The Cavaliers/Indentured Servants of the Plantation culture run the governmental bureaucracy, especially the DMV.

    3) The Quakers are the Army officer corps.

    4) The Puritans are the judges.

    I have no idea what Hell is like, but this is the situation in 2020 America.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  78. @Trelane

    You’re not as smart as you think you are. You need to define “variance between races” before you can use the term.

    • Agree: Bruno
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  79. peterike says:

    (1) success stealing bases, (2) propensity to steal, (3) ability to leg out triples, (4) ability to score once on base, (5) ability to beat out double-play balls and (6) defensive range

    Ok, but aren’t a lot of these partially reflections of attitude and risk-taking? I could be super fast, but too afraid to try to steal a base (2). Similarly, 3 and 5 are partially based on risk taking. 6 could be a sign of effort — am I willing to try to run down that fly ball? We’ve seen cases of players just not trying and dogging it in the outfield.

    Maybe more blacks are base stealers because they have a higher risk tolerance and lower future time orientation — i.e. they want that base NOW and don’t think about how getting tagged out could lose the game for them later.

    Does baseball measure players in sprints like football does? That’s who’s the “fastest.” Whether they steal bases or not is an indicator of speed, but not any form of proof.

  80. Bruno says:
    @Trelane

    Everything you have written is false or too vague to get any truth value.

    First, for simplification you must assume Trait is randomly distributed and that the SD is the same and only the averages change.

    Then the question is when two people chosen randomly on population 1 have a smaller average difference in the trait than (strong hypothesis) the average difference of the two groups or (weak hypothesis) two people chosen from different populations.

    I let you try to figure it out in a simple case IQ for white and black with 15sd for each group and 1 sd difference among both groups …

    I hope you understand how wrong you were with the 2 SD result …

  81. Bruno says:
    @Trelane

    And intermediate result :

    Try to find the average IQ difference between two unrelated white people chosen at random ?

    Clue : it’s not 1 sd.

  82. Spangel says:
    @Trelane

    It does not matter what values the mean and the standard deviation actually have for these two groups? Do you mind showing me the algebra there?

  83. What is more important? How fast you can run from a cop or at a cop? Asking for a friend.

    • LOL: kaganovitch, Rob McX
  84. El Dato says:

    Joys of Diversity: Turkish “Grey Wolves” looking for Armenians to beat up near Lyon.

    Turks ‘search’ for Armenians in Lyon, France amid ethnic tensions over Nagorno-Karabakh conflict

  85. tyrone says:
    @International Jew

    Hopefully in a heavily white school district .,,,,,don’t want to create cognitive dissonance do we ?

  86. Barnard says:

    Frank Thomas played tight end at Auburn before he got hurt and decided to focus on baseball. I’m sure he slowed down considerably as he aged, but does he belong in the same speed category as Willie Stargell and Harold Baines?

  87. MEH 0910 says:
    @san joaquin sam

    • Agree: Desiderius
  88. Spangel says:
    @res

    What is more variation between than within? What does this even mean? What was it intended to mean?

    Is this like there is more height variation within genders than between? Because short men and tall men are more different in height than the average woman and average man?

    A man can be 3 ft tall. A woman can be 7 ft tall. But a man of average male height would be perhaps equal in height to a woman in the 90th percentile of female height.

    It strikes me that this statement, “more difference within than between” bears no direct relationship to a potential difference in averages on a given trait. Is there a mistake in my understanding of what this “difference within vs difference between” thing is supposed to mean?

    • Replies: @res
  89. utu says:
    @duncsbaby

    Daughters of successful Jewish physicians: Chandra Levy, Heidi Fleiss, Monica Lewinsky. All involved in sexual affairs in political context.

  90. Peter Frost says: • Website

    That question is difficult to answer because natural selection has a confounding effect on the ratio of within-population diversity to between-population diversity.

    A population boundary is usually a boundary between different selection pressures. It may separate one kind of natural environment from another. Or it may separate one kind of cultural environment from another. Either way, natural selection acting on one population is different from natural selection acting on the other.

    The situation is entirely different within a population. The pressure of natural selection is much more similar within a population than between populations.

    Consequently, genetic differences within a population tend to have less adaptive significance than genetic differences between populations. So we’re comparing apples and oranges when we compare within-population diversity and between-population diversity.

  91. @carl larsson

    And, though they only had two daughters, those two dominated women’s chess.

    They had 3 daughters, Sofia ,Susan and Judit. Judit is the greatest female chess player ever and in her heyday was ranked 8th in the world. Susan is a grandmaster,and was Women’s world champ for a few years, while Sofia is not quite at that level, only an IM.

  92. @carl larsson

    There is a huge flaw in this argument: to fairly compare an underrepresented to an overrepresented group, you should never use the top individuals. That is a form of statistical malpractice that wouldn’t stand in an introductory college course.”

    The great “griffe du lion” has persuasively argued otherwise.

  93. @Polistra

    What were they doing there?

    No Trump supporters they, these schmucks were there to show ‘solidarity’.

  94. utu says:
    @Altai

    “The differences between groups of the same race will always be less than those between those groups and groups of other races.” – Not always true. If races are defined as disjoint clusters in n-dimensional space of principal components then parts of two neighboring clusters may have smaller genetic distance than the parts on the opposite sides of a cluster within the same race.

    • Replies: @Spangel
  95. Sean says:

    Is There More Diversity Within or Between Races?

    Yes! But not in differences that make a difference and thus have have been acted on by natural or sexual selection, except in those cases–disease resistance–that diversity has been naturally selected for.

    https://www.unz.com/pfrost/a-modern-myth/

    Whiteness is not a kinship or a culture. White people are no more closely related to one another, genetically, than we are to black people. […] Which is why it is entirely possible to despise whiteness without disliking yourself. (Biss, 2015, h/t to Steve Sailer)

    When a gene varies between two groups the cause is more likely a difference in natural selection, since the group boundary also tends to separate different natural environments (vegetation, climate, topography) or, more often, different cultural environments (diet, means of subsistence, sedentism vs. nomadism, gender roles, state monopoly of violence, etc.). Conversely, when a gene varies within a population, the cause is more likely a random factor without adaptive significance. That kind of variation is less easily flattened out by the steamroller of similar selection pressures.[…] If an epidemic sweeps through a community, it pays to have surface antigens that differ somewhat from your neighbor’s. The result is selection that inflates within-group variability, especially for the sort of structural proteins that are easy to collect and examine for studies on population genetics.

    If such polymorphisms can remain intact despite millions of years of separation, how many more persist among human populations that have been separated for only tens of thousands of years? In sum, if we are to believe blood groups and other genetic markers, it seems that Eula Biss may have more in common with certain apes than with the white folks she despises. Let’s hope she feels gratified.

  96. Going on appearances, I’d say there is more diversity between the races. However there are tremendous differences within races, although how much of it is due to conquest and out-breeding? Biodiversity is a beautiful and fascinating thing, not sure why we can’t celebrate it in human race.

  97. @Mr McKenna

    Passive voice users end up worrying a lot.

  98. @Peter Frost

    The question isn’t difficult to answer.

  99. @Ben tillman

    See, the Boomers were ignorant and arrogant, but at least they (usually) weren’t arrogant about their ignorance. Now we’re finally starting to scrape true bottom.

    • LOL: Ben tillman
  100. @jimmyriddle

    She was savvy to do this, although she doesn’t look that Hispanic. I used to check the Hispanic box any time it was combined with Latino because some of my ancestors were French Canadians who lived in Caribbean for about 100 years before moving on to New Orleans. And occasionally people make the argument that Haitians count as Latino, so….But I didn’t do it applying for my current position because I see the way the winds are shifting. It probably helped me get a teaching job a few years ago. No one questioned it because I am dark complected. Until I did DNA testing I assumed I had a few drops of of black or Native American ancestry (was never dumb enough to claim either of those, though). But nope, just a Northern/Central European mix.

  101. JimB says:

    Of course, anybody who makes the big leagues is a 99th percentile baseball player relative to the general population.

    That’s only 2.4 sigma better than average. I assume the cutoff is more like 4 sigma relative to the general population. Say, one in 10,000 good, not one in 100 good.

    • Replies: @Anon
  102. Spangel says:
    @utu

    We can gather knowledge about a lot of things- about clusters in n-dimensional space, about polymorphic traits and allele frequencies across populations, but the phrase “more difference within races than between” has been around since the 60s . A long time before there was population genetics. Before the human genome was even mapped.

    Lewontin was not talking about distance between genetic clusters in homo sapiens when he said that phrase. He had no information about that entire scientific field. So what was he talking about?

    Human language is an amazing tool. We can wield our sentences to express information about a remarkable range of knowledge. But we are a species who evolved our linguistic capacities mainly in a time when we were hunting the saber tooth tiger with the hand axe. When talk about what happens under the microscope, our language still works wonders, but it becomes clumsy and sometimes wholly inadequate. Sometimes we give up and say the quarks have got flavors. The truth is impossible to speak.

    Difference within rather than between is an ordinary phrase with an ordinary meaning. What does this phrase mean when we are talking about differences between races? It seems that the phrase must have once had a different meaning than the one it has taken on now as the meaning it has now seems to refer to discoveries about combined frequencies of alleles. But what did it mean to Lewontin?

    And my guess is that the people who throw this argument around never understood what this phrase referred to at all.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Odin
  103. utu says:
    @Peter Frost

    One can always count on you when it comes to the ToE tautological pseudo-reasoning. GIGO.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  104. Anon[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Frost

    This stuff is not really the question at hand, is it? The question is whether the “within-between” ratio of blacks and whites means that blacks are just like whites and thus any disparate outcomes are racist and cannot be permitted. The answer to that question is simple: “No. Nice try. But that’s bullshit.”

  105. anon[281] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Looks to me like some UMC Jewish people were trying to signal their virtue as “allies” to Only Black Lives Matter, but then encountered some Black Hebrew Israelites.

    Entertainment follows, because nobody trolls in the street like the BHI’s; “You a Edomite!” or even better “Amalek!”, lol!

    Now, a thoughtful person would reflect on all the crap the MSM dumped onto the Covington kids after their interaction with the BHI’s in DC a while back. Indeed, a thoughtful person might wonder if there was something left out of that “news”….but I doubt virtue signaling UMC’s have that capacity.

  106. syonredux says:

    Meanwhile, in France…..

    NICE, France (Reuters) – A knife-wielding attacker shouting “Allahu Akbar” (God is Greatest) beheaded a woman and killed two other people at a church in the French city of Nice on Thursday.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/france-security-nice-int-idUSKBN27E18D

    • Replies: @epebble
  107. @Mustela Mendax

    Dogs, stick to dogs, if you really want to influence large numbers of people.

    Only Sailer would think that the sabremetrician analogy is going to work beyond the dorky crowd of guys who never outgrew baseball cards. Dogs are virtually universal among our folk, we’ve co-evolved with them and seem to have an instinctual level of understanding with them, so it’s by far the best analogy I’ve found. Dogs are especially useful for pointing out how DNA effects behavior as much as physical properties.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  108. res says:
    @Trelane

    Thanks. That is a good point. For anyone interested in more details here are some references.

    An effect size calculator. To demonstrate your point and look at other possible values see calculator 14 at
    https://www.psychometrica.de/effect_size.html

    If you enter a Cohen’s d of 2 (a 2 SD difference between populations) you see that the r (correlation) is 0.7071 giving an R-squared (percent variance explained by the between groups difference) of 50%.

    For comparison, a 1 SD difference (e.g. B/W average IQs) gives a correlation of 0.4472 or an R-squared of 20%.

    For those who prefer equations, here is one relating Cohen’s d to correlation.
    https://www.polyu.edu.hk/mm/effectsizefaqs/effect_size_equations2.html

    d = 2r / sqrt(1 – r^2)

    For those who prefer visualizations (this one does not have R-squared, but adds % overlap, probability of superiority, and Cohen’s U3 which is explained there) see this one allowing entry of Cohen’s d values from o to 2. BTW, notice the default numbers on the visualization. I am sure any resemblance to IQ (mean 100, SD 15) is a coincidence ; )

    https://rpsychologist.com/cohend/

    • Replies: @Some Guy
    , @ic1000
  109. @Hypnotoad666

    By the same token, refusing to apply the word “race” to different groups isn’t going to make their differences go away.

    But that’s standard operating procedure for the leftists isn’t it? They banned the enward certain that it would solve the problem of criminal niggers. They banned “retard” convinced that it would cure Down Syndrome. They banned “faggot” secure in the knowledge that buggery would be normalized and gay bowel syndrome vanquished. They use blue for communists and red for capitalists. In every case, when one of their favorite things acquires a negative connotation, their solution is renaming it.

    Yes, they really are this simple. For the retarded leftist, coprophagia is now a tasty treat since renaming “eating shit” into “tossing salad.”

  110. Bert says:
    @res

    Besides the genetic-phenotypic distinction, it is worth thinking about how races (subspecies in scientific parlance) are defined by systematic biologists, those who concern themselves with taxa (kinds) and classifications (categories). They typically define subspecies by inspection because the relative homogeneity of a set of traits corresponds to a clear geographic expanse. If however one wants to test whether a species has multiple subspecies, as ours does, a statistical technique called spatial-autocorrelation can be employed. If traits are more similar compared to geographically near samples than when compared to geographically far samples, then there is a positive spatial-autocorrelation.

    See the figures in this link. The “Moran’s I” near + 1 looks like how human subspecies are distributed.
    https://gisgeography.com/spatial-autocorrelation-moran-i-gis/#:~:text=spatial%20autocorrelation%20analysis.-,Positive%20Spatial%20Autocorrelation%20Example,values%20close%20to%20each%20other.&text=This%20clustered%20pattern%20generates%20a%20Moran%27s%20I%20of%200.60.

    Subspecies often have fuzzy boundaries where their geographic boundaries abut; they interbreed because they are interfertile, i.e., of the same species. Subspecies exist because natural selection has favored different phenotypes to cope with different ecological conditions. In some species, the ecological conditions transition sharply in space, and then boundaries (zones of intergradation) between subspecies are typically narrow, i.e. phenotypes change quickly across the ecological transition zone.

    This shit about more diversity within races than between races is a red herring. Races = subspecies have their basis in positive spatial-autocorrelation between traits and geography, not comparative genetic diversity of unknown adaptive function. Biologists are interested in subspecies because they are steps potentially on the way to being separate species and because they are excellent for studying adaptation to extant ecological conditions; they are laboratories of evolution, so to speak. Many anthropologist say what biologists have studied minutely in hundreds of species does not exist in man. Hilarious.

  111. Peter Frost says: • Website
    @utu

    One can always count on you when it comes to the ToE tautological pseudo-reasoning. GIGO.

    If you want empirical evidence, there’s plenty. We have many examples of species that are morphologically and behaviorally distinct, yet genetic analysis shows considerably overlap. Why?

    Or take dog breeds. Even breeds that show considerable differences in size, shape, and behavior are barely distinguishable on genetic tests. Why?

    Evolutionary change, either through natural or artificial selection, typically involves a small subset of the entire genome. Genetic differences at most loci have little or no adaptive significance.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    , @utu
  112. “98th percentile Pygmy”

    Buried within this arcane hbd stuff is comedy gold. These little nuggets are either intentional or just naturally flow from Sailer’s fingertips as he writes. This is advanced comedy. I’m not a comedy guy (obviously); I’m anti-comedy. But I recognize cutting edge funny stuff when I see it. I know a comedy guy who would benefit from reading Sailer. But once he set eyes on The Unz Review he would immediately rat me out to the black lady commissars hired by Hollywood to keep an eye on problematic white men.

  113. @Peter Frost

    “Or take dog breeds. … Why?”

    Ask the Dog Moms. Their numbers are legion and they enjoy talking about their fur babies. Just don’t bring up human babies because they are liable to attack you.

  114. Some Guy says:
    @res

    What I don’t get is that variance is the standard deviation squared, so if the standard deviation for whites equals the white-black difference, isn’t the between group variance and within group variance the same?

  115. Can’t you use this reasoning to say that racism doesn’t exist? After all there is probably more variance of income, education, crime etc within races than between races?

    • LOL: Some Guy
  116. res says:
    @Anon

    Good list, but I think you should add some discussion of how overrepresentation at successive levels drains the talent pool even further. College admissions provides a good example for a thought experiment (which can be compared to reality by looking at examples like Harvard).

    Consider 3 levels of colleges with IQ thresholds of 105, 115, and 125 respectively. Using Emil’s tail calculator and converting probabilities to numbers of people in a total population of 70,000 whites and 13,000 blacks (roughly 100,000 people with the US racial distribution) we get the following number of people meeting each threshold.

    IQ thresh | 105 | 115 | 125
    Black | 1,186 | 296 | 50
    White | 25,858 | 11,109 | 3,345

    So the raw ratio of numbers at each threshold are

    Total population: 5.4
    Over 105: 21.8
    Over 115: 37.5
    Over 125: 66.9

    So we see a population underrepresentation for blacks of 4, 7, and 12 at the different thresholds. Which is roughly what you would expect to see if all colleges admitted strictly by ability.

    But now consider what happens when selective colleges attempt to admit at population representation. We start with the top tier which admits 3,345 / 5.4 = 619 blacks. That breaks down as 50 over 125 plus 296 over 115 plus 273 over 105. Which eviscerates the black talent pool. Not only are all of the over 115 group gone, so are the top quarter of the over 105 group.

    The second tier then has no chance at admitting by ability. Then there is the third tier…

    Most colleges don’t admit blacks at population representation, but I believe most are well above ability representation for their level.

    Obviously this all is approximate, but hopefully the overall point is clear.

    P.S. In the work world this effect is added to by the frequent iSteve observation that high ability blacks tend rationally to cluster in a select few occupations (e.g. good tradeoffs of effort and ability required vs. remuneration and prestige) leaving only a few diehards left for high ability/effort low reward positions like statistics professors.

  117. res says:
    @anon

    Race isn’t a social construct, but society IS a racial construct.

    I disagree with the first part of that. Here is how I like to express my view.

    Race is a social construct overlaid on a biological reality.

    The social construct aspect can most easily be seen in how mixed race individuals are characterized. Contrast the one drop rule for B/W ancestry in the US with more nuanced views elsewhere (e.g. Brazil).

    Then there is the genetic ridiculousness surrounding the term “Hispanic.”

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  118. anonymous[347] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    ‘The former prime minister of Malaysia said Muslims have “a right to be angry and kill millions of French people” just hours after an attacker yelling “Allahu akbar!” beheaded one woman and killed two others in a church in France.’

    https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/malaysia-pm-muslims-have-right-to-kill-millions-of-french-people/

    No self awareness here about the 100s of millions of Christians, Jews, Hindus, and others that Muslims slaughtered and enslaved over their history. Malaysia has a very discriminatory positive discrimination legislation where Malays are accorded special rights over the Chinese and Indian minorities. I wouldn’t be surprised if this type of discrimination is sought by the CRT charlatans. As Ibram X Kendi claimed:

    “The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.”

  119. Whatever happened to fixation index? IIRC, when applied to humans as applied to other species (foxes, bears, gorillas et al), it provides support for at least 4-5 different subspecies of humans.

    This whole race doesn’t exist gaslighting is, to borrow a phrase, unfalsifiable postmodern claptrap. That’s the whole postmodern end conclusion – really nothing exists, particularly trends and patterns.

    HBD knowledge seems to be in the same place that knowledge of a round earth was many hundreds of years ago. There was enough knowledge for the educated to easily debunk the belief in a flat earth, but religion stood in the way and we were far from putting anything into orbit. The question for HBD today is if research will be able to proceed in the face of increasing religious (ie SJW) censorship, and at what point will that research build to a tipping point. Also, what role will tech like CRISPR have?

  120. @Ripple Earthdevil

    Can’t say i blame ’em.

    This Antifa/BLM thing, where they have the *right* to arbitrarily close roads and highways and detain you in your car because their message (lies, bullshit) is just so darn *important* that you must be stopped from going about your business, is a form of assualt.

    Carnapping.

    That it pisses people off–a given.

    That the cops in Democratic cities won’t do anything about it–scandalous, anarko-tyranny.

    That Democrat politicians encourage and enable it? … treason?

  121. Bert says:
    @Mustela Mendax

    I attended when Lewontin addressed a convocation of hundreds of (oxymoron alert) social science students on the topic of human biodiversity. He flatly stated that there was no evidence of any genetic control of behavioral traits in human beings. As a geneticist of course he knew that he was not speaking the truth, and he should have known that as molecular biology and neurobiology advanced such evidence would increase, as would be consonant with results on behavioral genetics from animals that existed at the time. Most of what is explained in this link was well underway then.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_behaviour_genetics#:~:text=Human%20behaviour%20genetics%20is%20a,the%20inheritance%20of%20behavioural%20traits.

    This was in the mid-1980’s, so I agree with you that the hate-hoax of systemic racism can be traced back to Lewontin’s hoax of within-between diversity as a criterion for defining the existence of subspecies and his misrepresentation of human biology.

  122. Lurker says:
    @Anonymous

    BLM is a golem not quite under the full control of it’s creators.

  123. @res

    I disagree with the first part of that. Here is how I like to express my view.

    Race is a social construct overlaid on a biological reality.

    As usual with you, res–thoughtful. That’s a reasonable one sentence explanation/rejoinder.

    Personally, given the politics–the sheer evil–involved in this debate, i think it gives away too much to obscurantists (and white genociders).

    I’d go more with something like:

    Race is biologically real. Race is simply the lumpiness in genetic diversity we see between ethnic groups, especially the big continental scale genetic clumps/groups we see in people separated by high mountains, wide deserts and oceans–East Asians, Indians, Europeans, Sub-Saharan Africans, Native Americans, Aboriginal Australians, Polynesians–who have been genetically separated for thousands of years and undergone natural selection for their particular geographic and cultural environment.

    How a society identifies, categorizes and manages race–that is a “social construct”, as are all such human social affairs.

    • Replies: @Spangel
    , @res
  124. The phrase “diversity between races” does not compute in my brain.

  125. Bert says:
    @Peter Frost

    Mostly correct, but…. First, you confuse your argument by using population rather than subspecies. To biologists as well as anthropologists, the term population has multiple meanings, typically a local interbreeding deme (a small, locally interbreeding group of organisms within a larger population). The current argument, actually not an argument but a clarification of the obfuscations of anthropologists, is about the existence of subspecies in Homo sapiens.

    As to your statement about within subspecies genetic differences having less adaptive significance, much of population genetics would disagree because balanced polymorphisms are adaptive, e.g., sickle cell trait versus normal, so they along with neutral drift explain local genetic diversity. Interestingly in human beings local phenotypic diversity seems to be particularly focused on facial features. There’s an idea that you might want to run with the “Why of.” Or are we humans simply programmed to see differences in faces better than in, say, elbows.

    Finally the way to put a nail in the coffin of the human-races-don’t-exist meme is to show that evolutionary biology defines subspecies by positive spatial-autocorrelation of traits and geographic locations. Lewontin’s Fallacy is just that; his comparison never influenced subspecies definitions in biology.

  126. utu says:
    @Trelane

    There is more variance within races than between for any trait where the two groups differ by less than two standard deviations

    You need to define the between variance. Otherwise your statement has no value regardless of reader’s IQ. But one can resolve this issue using the fixation index and asking when it is larger/smaller than 50%. One should use formula for the combined variance.

    http://saraemilyburke.com/stats/CombinedVarianceEqualNs.pdf

    Then for two populations P1 and P2 of equal size that produce index of fixation 50% one gets the following condition:

    [Var(P1)+Var(P2)]/2=(1/4)*[Mean(P1)-Mean(P2)]^2

    which for Var(P1)=Var(P2) leads to:

    2SD=|Mean(P1)-Mean(P2)|

    where the LHS is the measure of ‘variance within’ and the RHS is the distance between the populations. So, in this sense you were correct.

  127. @Peter Frost

    The situation is entirely different within a population. The pressure of natural selection is much more similar within a population than between populations.

    Consequently, genetic differences within a population tend to have less adaptive significance than genetic differences between populations. So we’re comparing apples and oranges when we compare within-population diversity and between-population diversity.

    Peter, this was an excellent, helpful comment to me. Thanks.

    However it strikes me, this most true for the “steady state” case. While selection is going on it is working on precisely those within-population differences–very much adaptively significant. It’s clear that selection the last few thousand years has been driving white people toward being more intelligent, conscientious, cooperative, empathetic.

    I’m pretty much a bog standard white guy … except for being smarter and better looking. Nothing i did. Always assumed that was selection working on my ancestors that made me that way. Smarter and better looking just “who i am”.

  128. utu says:
    @Peter Frost

    “Or take dog breeds. Even breeds that show considerable differences in size, shape, and behavior are barely distinguishable on genetic tests. ” – Nonsense. Fst varies between 0.12 and 0.46 among 28 breeds. The average Fst is 0.26. This means that dog breeds are more diverse than human races (Fst=0.15). Which make sense because dog breeds where subjected to much stronger pressures than human races except for societies where having sex with your great grandmother was required.

    Analysis of Genetic Variation in 28 Dog Breed Populations With 100 Microsatellite Markers, Journal of Heredity 2003:94(1):81–87

  129. epebble says:
    @syonredux

    French national police have identified the suspect in Nice attack as Brahim Aouissaoui, who was born in 1999.

    A source in the Italian interior ministry told CNN that Aouissaoui first arrived in Europe on the southern Italian island of Lampedusa.

    What is shocking is how a 21 year old not-so-smart kid jumps from Tunisia to Italy, across the Mediterranean, then jumps from Italy to France, all in a few weeks. Obviously, they don’t have any meaningful border between Italy and France. And Italians seem to treat these Tunisian kids as some sort of migratory birds.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Lot
  130. @res

    “high ability/[low effort] reward positions like statistics professors”

    No one likes you guys. But I’m willing to hire you for one of my creepy parties. Just mail your response to my cabin in Modoc County. If you include an SASE I’ll send you some toenail clippings.

    • Replies: @res
  131. Spangel says:
    @AnotherDad

    it doesn’t matter if race is a social construct for the debate we are having.

    The realists make main points that center on the fact that there are differences in averages for consequential psychological traits such as iq and propensity for violent criminality and that these differences are mostly biologically rooted.

    The other side makes all sorts of points, many of which don’t even directly counter the point the realists were making. One of these irrelevant points is that race is a social construct. It literally does not matter. As in it doesn’t even undermine the main point realists are making. Case in point, say I construct race A, who consist of the eskimos, the Norwegians and the African Pygmy tribes. And then I construct race b, which consists of the Japanese and the ashkenazi. It’s possible for race b to have a higher iq than race a even though my racial categories are nonsense from the perspective of genetic clustering.

    The argument about more difference within than between is also an argument that does very little to undermine the main argument that realists were making. With brain scans and heritability estimates from adoption studies and the like, we could have correctly inferred the realist argument without ever having discovered DNA. We know the phenotypes differ on average on important psychological traits. We know that the differences have high heritability. The added inference that this is biological would be proven by looking at similarities within races in vastly different environments. Population genetics could almost be icing on the cake.

    • Thanks: Some Guy
  132. @donut

    A link to Iris DeMent on iSteve? As her upriver hubby might say, “Who would have thunk it?”

    According to the Social Security Administration, Iris ranked higher in 2019 than in any other year since 1900. Who would have thunk that?

    https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/babyname.cgi

    Check out the graph.

    • Thanks: donut
  133. @Pat Hannagan

    What performance was that? I saw Crosby, Joni, and most of the Airplane up there with Stills. What was going on?

  134. @AndrewR

    This is genuinely one of the most delightfully retarded things I’ve ever read on this site. He was using a common expression retard- and if he was putting players into the NFL at those rates he clearly wasn’t an idiot- Unz posters are generally pretty poor but I’m assuming you didn’t grow up in an inner city high school.

    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AndrewR
  135. prosa123 says:

    OT: some years back you had a post about what’s wrong with Rhode Island, why it’s such an underachiever of a state. I’m currently reading Trial by Fire by Rhode Island journalist Scott James, an account of the 2003 Station Nightclub fire that left 100 people dead. James goes into quite some detail about the way things work in Rhode Island, and needless to say it’s not a favorable account. Some of his parts about the state’s pervasive corruption are downright amusing. One particularly absurd story concerns Providence’s longtime and impossibly corrupt mayor Buddy Cianci, who among much, much else once assaulted a romantic rival with a fireplace log and then urinated on him; when Cianci died in 2016 the state honored him as a hero. One factor James notes as facilitating such corruption and overall bad government is the way that seemingly everyone in the tiny state knows everone else.

    Note: despite these few bits of humor the book is mostly a horror show worse than any fiction. One anecdote will suffice. Several hours after the fire was extinguished the fire chief and another rescuer were removing dead bodies from the rubble. The corpses were completely charred and unrecognizable, most of the dead had to be identified through dental records or DNA. All of a sudden one of the unrecognizable charred corpses began to move, it was still alive. So severe were the burns that it was impossible to tell whether it was a man or a woman. Despite not being too religious, the fire chief fervently prayed for the person to die, the idea of someone living with such horrible injuries being too terrible to contemplate. It turned out that the person was a woman, and lived four days.

  136. I will post this here because it seems appropriate. Berkeley’s City Council has decided, in the wake of the murder of a 19 year old pregnant mother, to start a “Group Violence Intervention Program.” Please note that the term”gangs” is now verbotten. Berkeley disbanded the Gang Intervention Program.They will work to identify people, in groups, that are prone to violence, formerly called “profiling” and “surround them in a circle of care.” <— Actual term! Can't make this shit up. Steve please flee California. I have a spare bedroom with a bathroon across the hall. Bring Mrs. Steve and one pet.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  137. J.Ross says:

    Jack Niklaus has endorsed Trump! Surely this will clarify things!
    Recently arrived Muslim “refugees” have launched terror attacks in Nice, Avignon, and the French consulate in Saudi Arabia. The first report I heard actually said [“]it is not yet clear who stabbed a woman in a church[“] aaaaaaand actually yes that is perfectly clear. There’s pretty much one option there.
    The FBI has arrested two more people in Michigan, not for the laughably fake plot to tie up Governor Whitmer, but for being the leadership of “the Base,” a laughably fake white supremacist group with a recycled name and a computer-generated mascot, last heard when the FBI “arrested” the computer animation as he attempted to virtually enter from Canada, and last heard before that in reference to a pre-Obama Muslim outreach program.
    Following the predictable and completely avoidable terror in France, security services are prowling, and pro-“refugee” world leaders make nonsensical statements about standing with the country they personally trashed. And of course more “refugees” are en route.
    Imagine an exhausted French cop sitting down at a counter after a day of running around the casbah, next to a triumphant FBI fabulist, who asks, “why don’t you just arrest them beforehand?”

  138. @Buffalo Joe

    “Compassionate social workers will deal with the groups.”

  139. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    Can I just note that “more diversity within races” is actually an uninteresting truism and it’s barbaric after the Summer of the Georges to humor the notion it has any bearing on the racial question?

  140. Alden says:

    I always thought blacks were a bit taller than Whites.

    Off topic The African Muslim who beheaded the woman in a French church arrived in France one month ago. The army’s being sent to cities and town and guarding schools and churches. The police are finding explosives and weapons caches. Weapons probably stolen from American army bases in Germany by our wonderful black soldiers. Instead of synagogues and Jewish businesses and community centers for once .

    I assume French jews are hysterically jealous that the goyim and Catholic Churches are getting a little attention and help from the Masonic government.

    California jews go nuts every April when the Armenians have their genocide memorials.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  141. @Mike Tre

    Typical situation: someone complains it’s unfair that blacks score lower than whites on the SAT.

    HBD response: not surprising; blacks have 1sd lower IQ than whites.

    PC retort: you can’t tell difference between races by IQ. There’s more IQ varience within each race than between them.

    Possible HBD retort: then how can you tell that the SAT is unfair? There’s more varience within each race’s SAT scores than between the races’ scores too.

    Moral of the story: ask statistical question, get statistical answer.

  142. In general, skin color is highly correlated with race, and not just correlated in the “correlation is not causation” sense, but is caused (to the best of our knowledge) by genes, which are “expressed” in the developed characteristics (such as skin color) of physical organisms, and which cluster strongly based largely on ancestry. And it’s not just that the values (such as light or dark skin) of single attributes cluster, but that many, many attributes have values that cluster across attributes (e.g., high values on one attribute are predictive of high, or low, values on other attributes). Races are basically just (clusters of) people with similar ancestry, who as a result, share substantial genes.

    When people say “there is more variation within races than across races”, that may be true for a given attribute, but when you look at multiple attributes at the same time, I believe that becomes less and less true. For example, two bell curves with the same standard deviation (s.d.), whose means are 1 s.d. apart (number 1 chosen arbitrarily, actual value is irrelevant, have a fair amount of overlap. But take two two-dimensional bell surfaces over two attributes or dimensions, again with means of each dimension 1 s.d. apart. There is a lot less overlap. And take it to three dimensions, there is even less overlap, and so on. (Basically, two line segments have substantial overlap; two circles less, proportionally; two spheres even less, etc.)

    I wrote the above in an email to a friend recently. Would be glad to get any critique or affirmation of my reasoning.

    • Agree: Some Guy
  143. @res

    But if the two populations are under different selection pressures then there are likely to be systematic differences affecting the phenotypes under selection.

    Bingo.

    And, traits like height are not really under much selection pressure, but certain others, like the suite of traits that promote long distance running ability are under intense selection pressure for some groups.

    However, even worse, brain size is under intense selection pressure for all groups because the brain is an enormously expensive organ. It is expensive during development, during birth and during life.

    If your environment (esp social env) allows you to get away with a 10% smaller brain, that is going to be selected for. (Note, also, the lie that Scientologists love to spout is easily disproven!)

    If your environment (esp social env) requires a 10% larger brain to flourish and reproduce in, that is going to be selected for.

  144. ic1000 says:
    @res

    I wasn’t smart enough to understand Trelane’s lead-off comment.
    But I am smart enough to understand res’ reply.
    Half-empty? Half-full?

  145. Alden says:
    @Trelane

    There is more variance within races than between for any trait where the two groups differ by two standard deviations.

    I can always tell Koreans from other E Asians and usually between Armenians and Persians.

    Who cares ?

  146. This post brings a couple of things to mind.

    The Yankees were among the last of the clubs to place a black player on their roster: catcher Elston Howard arrived in 1955. That would later prompt manager Casey Stengel to famously observe: “I finally get one, and he can’t run.”

    Black third baseman Hubie Brooks spent the first five years of his career with the Mets. Although he was a regular for most of that time, he amassed a total of only 34 steals with New York. He never reached double digits in steals over any of his 15 seasons, although he was caught eleven times for the ’89 Expos. Nevertheless, whenever he reached first base, pitchers threw over there as often as if his name were Maury Brock-Henderson. From the telecast booth, color commentator Tim McCarver continuously expressed bewilderment over this phenomenon. But I don’t think he was truly puzzled.

  147. Lot says:
    @epebble

    “ And Italians seem to treat these Tunisian kids as some sort of migratory birds.”

    Italian policy hasn’t been perfect, but the current wave of mass Muslim migration is mainly the fault of Germany and somewhat less Sweden Belgium and France.

    “ What is shocking is how a 21 year old not-so-smart kid jumps from Tunisia to Italy”

    You only need to get a raft or decrepit motor boat half a mile off the African shore, then put out a distress signal. At that point the German Navy or a German NGO will tow you to Europe.

  148. These tweets document how 21st Century genetic tests can predict what race people will self-identify as belonging to with 95%-99% accuracy

    Wrong.

    This PRATT (point refuted a thousand times) is still dishonestly repeated by ‘race realists’. Sad.

    If you look at those genetic tests that report 99% accuracy what they do is sample geographically distant populations, not geographical neighbours. If you included the latter you would end up with much lower accuracy rate of identifying someone’s biogeographical ancestry group because of the significant admixture/gene flow.

  149. @Oliver D. Smith

    But what people care most about politically in the U.S. is not whether Czechs and Slovaks differ genetically (although they do, with fine enough resolution), but whether self-identified blacks and whites can be told apart genetically, which they overwhelmingly can be.

  150. Wilkey says:

    ‘There is greater variation within races than between them.’

    I’m not quite sure I’ve ever really grasped the point of this statement. If it’s what I think they’re trying to say then all they’re saying is that the differences *between all the people of a race* are greater than the differences between the average members of each race.

    When one considers there are over a billion whites and over a billion blacks, why should that be all that shocking? And how is it useful?

    The difference in net worth between the richest white guy, Jeff Bezos, and the poorest white guy is over $100 billion. The difference in the net worth of the average white guy and the average black guy is about $100,000. All the first statistic tells you is how rich Jeff Bezos is. The second statistic tells you the enormous differences you will see between a society that is made up a entirely of whites versus one that is composed entirely of blacks.

    • Agree: Rob McX
  151. @Peter Frost

    A population boundary is usually a boundary between different selection pressures. It may separate one kind of natural environment from another. Or it may separate one kind of cultural environment from another. Either way, natural selection acting on one population is different from natural selection acting on the other.

    This is a very clever way of thinking about and articulating the issue and I thank you for spelling it out.

  152. @YetAnotherAnon

    Slovak Gypsy.

    Slovaks have cleansed many of them in the post 1990’s period.

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
  153. @Steve Sailer

    I’m saying self-identified race/ethnicity is a poor proxy for genetic ancestry with an adequate representation of global populations. If genetic testing was performed on 100 individuals from 1000 populations world-wide (covering all continents and not missing any large geographical areas of habitation) -there would be a much lower accuracy rate than the 99% figure we often hear from race realists who are misleadingly citing studies that sample a few geographically distant populations. The infamous Tang et al study for example only had sampled self-identified White Americans (not even from all states) / African-Americans (not even from all states) / Hispanics / (Han?) Chinese / Japanese.

  154. Kronos says:
    @Inquiring Mind

    In the book the Cavalier elite children would have to undergo like 9 hours of ballroom dancing as a staple of their education (no STEM over here.) That’s both horrifying and funny!

  155. utu says:
    @Spangel

    “Lewontin was not talking about distance between genetic clusters…” – Correct. He was talking about fixation index expressed in terms of allele frequencies f using f*log(f) metric. This metric can’t account for the shape of clusters but only for the average distance as a fraction of diversity (variance) of global population. The distance is inferred not calculated directly.

  156. Anon[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @JimB

    I was the best player in my little league, best player on my high school team and at least top 3 if not the best in my high school district of 8 or so high schools. Considering that hundred of kids in my age bracket played in my little league, and a single high school draws the 20 or so best players from maybe 5 or 6 little leagues, I figure I was easily in the 99th percentile. I still wasnt even in the top half of my middling d1 college team and zero of my teammates went on to mlb. Must be much higher than 99th percentile.

    I played against one guy in legion ball that had a substantial mlb career and a handful that I can think of in college. There must have been a few more that got a cup of coffee that I dont remember or didnt know about, but it’s pretty damn rare.

  157. Brutusale says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Not baseball cards. Strat-O-Matic, the original fantasy sport.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strat-O-Matic

  158. the ‘within between’ thing it has always struck me as a nonsense observation, and not any kind of argument. about the same, and the same in value, as observing all humans have a mean number of heads equal to 1. just look at the DNA instructions here – 1 head, 2 arms, 2 legs, by Jove! no difference between any humans.

    also note how Steve immediately moves to human performance to illustrate the point, but that’s not what the ‘within between’ argument is about. the ‘within between’ argument is specifically about laboratory measurement of biological qualities, which is why the first guy, Ron Noble, is talking about loci.

    but it’s precisely because of performance differences that human groups matter. in the past i’ve used the example of, number of programming languages, operating systems, and compilers developed group by group. well, european men developed almost all of them, and most other humans developed none of them. so in this case, the ‘within between’ axiom is exactly backwards – there is more diversity among european men than there is among almost all the other humans on the planet. the other humans usually have a number equal to zero on this axis. there is no diversity at all among the other human groups.

  159. @ATBOTL

    Noticing things is a terrible trait – from your linked Wiki

    “Unlike most prominent Old Bolsheviks, he survived the Great Purge unscathed for as long as Nikolai Yezhov was the head of the NKVD…”

    From that link …Yezhov, Yagoda (who Yehzov had shot), Mikhail Abramovich Trilisser, Genrikh Lyushkov (who Yehzov probably warned and who defected to Japan) – all “fellow-Soviets”.

    I start to see why Solzhenitsyn went in the US publishing world from “that brave guy who tells it like it is about Russia” to “sorry – I don’t know that name“.

  160. specifically for baseball, you don’t need Bill James math to see the difference. you just need to go to this page.

    Career stolen base leaders

    and look at the photos at the top. there’s only 2 kinds of players here.

    1) old timey players from 100 years ago, who were garbage, and couldn’t play at all today.

    2) brothers who played in the modern game.

    but stealing bases is kind of specific, and only some of the players in the photos were great players. it is similar to steals in basketball. some players are on the list because they were great all around players, and others are specialists. somewhat similar to sacks in football as well.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  161. @prime noticer

    #19 on the All Time Steals list is 19th Century player Dummy Hoy, who was deaf and 5’4″. He’s not in the Hall of Fame but would definitely go in the Hall of Interest.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  162. Odin says:
    @Spangel

    Difference within rather than between is an ordinary phrase with an ordinary meaning… But what did it mean to Lewontin?

    My conjecture: It has no ordinary meaning. At least, I don’t recall it outside discussions of race. Furthermore, Lewontin knew this. He wasn’t trying to out-reason anyone, he was trying to shut them up.

    For this he needed to devise a phrase that sounded like…

    1. It has some kind of meaning (so the hearer wouldn’t reflexively dismiss it)
    2. This meaning could be tricky to analyze (so the skeptical hearer would be distracted into parsing it)
    3. The supposed meaning is important and might even be true.

    He built brilliantly. The phrase he settled on has been doing its job of sidelining and confusing debate for half a century now, with no sign of decline in its power.

    Whatever their moral status, the statement and its creator must surely belong in the Hoax (or Fallacy) Hall of Fame.

    • Agree: Spangel
  163. @Steve Sailer

    The % of putative European ancestry in self-identified African Americans heavily differs per state – same for African-American ancestry in self-identified White Americans.

    So these race categories are actually useless in population genetics:

    Parra [15] presents data showing that the percentage of European contribution to several African American communities within the continental US varies tenfold, from 3.5% in the isolated Gullah-speaking Sea Islanders from South Carolina to 35% in Seattle (Figure 1).

    https://humgenomics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40246-014-0023-x

    Some African-American subpopulations by state have on average only 3.5% admixture, but other subpopulations by state 35% – why should they be lumped together as a race ? Doing that masks the genetic variation between these subpopulations. Race is not useful.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  164. I’m not subject to Tay Sachs or Sickle Cell Anemia. I’m lactose tolerant. I have my mom’s gray hair, and, to now, it seems her healthy (to age 95) heart genes. Good! I can live with that. I just wish my hair was totally white instead of salt and pepper.

  165. @res

    It would be interesting to include the 2.3% who are said to have an average IQ of 107 as well.

  166. @Peterike

    pick out the Chinaman from within a group of negroes

    Ooh! You said “pick out”!

  167. @Steve Sailer

    19th Century player Dummy Hoy, who was deaf

    When was the last time you saw “dumb” used to mean “mute”? Definitely 19th century there.

    Like boys called “Christy”.

  168. @Mustela Mendax

    It’s my understanding that the between-breed variance is of magnitude comparable to intra-species variance, and in that regard is analogous to the relationship of races within the human species.

    One caveat: human races are the results of generations of human decisions.

    Dog breeds, on the other hand, are the results of generations of human decisions.

    In other words, someone else’s. That’s why dogs aren’t breedist. Or even classist. Heat is heat.

    • Replies: @Mustela Mendax
  169. Trelane says:
    @Some Guy

    In a gaussian distribution of values, the average difference between pairs of values is 2sigma/ sqrt pi, where sigma is the standard deviation of the distribution.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  170. res says:
    @AnotherDad

    Thanks. I like your description (it captures things more completely), but think it leaves one open to hairsplitting arguments about whether “race” refers to the biological reality (the realist view) or the social interpretation (the goodthinker view).

    That’s why I lump them into the one liner as I do. Though perhaps it does submit too much to the obscurantist framing.

    Perhaps a useful thought experiment would be to ask how aliens would categorize humans lacking any of our historical baggage? Or how biologists would categorize animals exhibiting similar patterns?

    P.S. And thanks overall for your consistently excellent comments.

    • Replies: @Oliver D. Smith
  171. res says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    I was wondering if I would get a response like that ; )
    FWIW, I am not a statistics professor (probably obvious to anyone with the graduate level statistics education which I lack). Just thought it was the perfect example for that point in this conversation.

  172. @Reg Cæsar

    This calls to mind the beneficial relationship between dogs and humans through the ages – how, through partnerships involving hunting and (in polar regions), warmth and locomotion, each species has materially contributed to the survival of the other. It’s nearly a truism that dog personality is the product of human selection, but is it not also likely that, to a degree, we are the product of dog selection? In a park where dogs are taken off-leash, do they frisk and frolic freely among themselves, big and little, squat and sinuous, without distinction, or do they coalesce into cliques, like with like, bonded by their glowering hostility toward the others? I think it’s mostly the former, and as a fact of empirical observation, I believe we are very doggish, perhaps due in part to their enlightened choice of human partners. We recognize at a glance the essential humanity of others, regardless of how different their appearance.
    The point that I’m working toward is that harmony is the natural human state, and to have a Summer of Hate like we’ve just had requires incitement, and of that we have had an abundance – constant, unending, ceaseless, promoted mostly by a fairly small number of organs of influence. The One who said “blessed are the peacemakers” left unspoken the corollary that those who find harmony, and convert it to conflict, embody the soul of wickedness. It should be our mission to call out every single instance in the unending series of hate-hoaxes, and analyze and explicate every single paragraph and sentence and lay the blame at the doorstep of those at fault.

    • Replies: @Mustela Mendax
  173. Some Guy says:
    @Trelane

    In a gaussian distribution of values, the average difference between pairs of values is 2sigma/ sqrt pi, where sigma is the standard deviation of the distribution.

    That formula gets me 1.13 SD, how’d you get 2 SD?

    • Replies: @res
  174. Some Guy says:
    @Alden

    California jews go nuts every April when the Armenians have their genocide memorials.

    Go nuts how?

  175. Some Guy says:
    @Oliver D. Smith

    Some African-American subpopulations by state have on average only 3.5% admixture, but other subpopulations by state 35% – why should they be lumped together as a race ? Doing that masks the genetic variation between these subpopulations. Race is not useful.

    Some shades of the color “red” are bright, some are dark. Why should they lumped together as a color? Doing that masks the visual variation between these shades. Color is not useful.

  176. @Oliver D. Smith

    My 23andme results told me that I had ancestry from County Cork, Ireland and Canton Aargau, Switzerland, as well as many less-specific places. By conventional genealogy, I know this is true. I had a pair of grandparents come from Cork in 1833, and another from Aargau in 1843. That’s astonishing. Switzerland I can understand, because mountains are natural barriers, but Cork!! Isn’t it flatland around there?
    A commenter in some influential journal or other, whined that these racial attrbutions are borderline fake, because they told her she was 88% Ashkenazi, whereas she was certain she was 93%, or some numbers like that. To me, at least in my instance, the accuracy seems almost miraculous.

  177. @Mustela Mendax

    Having re-read my post #183, it strikes me as downright silly. A dog that won’t cooperate with his different-looking harnessmates is simply left out, and probably dies of exposure. There’s no need to invoke bi-directionality of selective pressure.
    The point of my second paragraph stands, however. Just as there is no effect without cause, there is no violence without incitement. We need to trace the incitement back to its source and forward through its channels and parse it sentence-by-sentence. Let’s start with New York Times reportage immediately after the death of George Floyd.

  178. @Mustela Mendax

    Tangentially on the topic of post #185, I sent my 23andme data file, analyzed to show 42% German ancestry, to MyHeritage in Tel Aviv, for incorporation in their database. Their analysis showed me as having exactly . . . zero German ancestry. Amazing! It’s almost as if a certain racial or ethnic group wanted to see a certain other racial group vanish from the pages of history and human memory itself.

  179. res says:
    @Some Guy

    Good question. That response of Trelane’s seemed like a non-sequitur to me. Perhaps he can elaborate. Even better if he could do so in a manner which seems intended to communicate rather than show off his intelligence (his username seems apt).

    This paper discusses a slightly more detailed version of Trelane’s formula (they are looking at twins so need to account for correlation of the two variables) along with a plot of the full distribution of the absolute differences.
    The Descriptive Use of Absolute Differences between Pairs of Scores with a Common Mean and Variance
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/1165141

    I posted some references in comment 113, but if you want an explanation from the horse’s mouth see Section 2.2 of Cohen’s 1988 book where he describes what is known as Cohen’s d.
    Statistical Power Analysis for the Behavioral Sciences
    http://www.utstat.toronto.edu/~brunner/oldclass/378f16/readings/CohenPower.pdf

    Equation 2.2.6 in section
    2.2.2 d in Terms of Correlation and Proportion of Variance
    shows how d = 2 SD corresponds to r^2 = 1/2 or r = 1/sqrt(2)

    r = d / sqrt(d^2 + 4)

    Note that the population sizes matter. Equation 2.2.7 generalizes for unequal population sizes. The 4 becomes 1/(pq) where p and q are the respective population proportions. That value has a minimum at p=q=0.5 so the d required to meet the R^2 = 50% condition increases as the populations become more unequal in size.

    P.S. Section 2.2 The Effect Size Index: d is about seven pages long and well worth a read for anyone (not averse to a little math) who wants to better understand Cohen’s d and some alternate measures of group differences. For anyone interested, these two comments from l’Affaire D’amore talk more about Cohen’s d in the context of sex differences. The reference to a study of differences for 124 traits at the beginning of the second link is especially interesting.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/google-ceo-denounces-his-underling-for-crimethink-about-males-and-females/#comment-1960806
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/google-sex/#comment-1963141

    • Replies: @Trelane
  180. Paleoconn says:

    Campanella was half Italian who are some of the slowest moving Caucasians I know. Also Frank Thomas and big Pappy were grossly overweight. Jim Rice was probably one of the slowest runners as well.

    By the way, congrats on the Dodgers. Game 4 is one of the wildest I have ever seen, to me reminiscent of Boston’s Game 6 win in 75, in that both the Sox and Rays went on to concede the series in the end.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  181. @Paleoconn

    Game 4 of the World Series was fun. The last play looked like Little League, though, with the Dodger’s making 3 fielding miscues, and the Ray’s winning baserunner falling down from trying to run fast and then getting up and diving too early so that he barely got his fingers on homeplate before grinding to a halt in the dirt.

    • Agree: hhsiii, Paleoconn
    • Replies: @Paleoconn
  182. Trelane says:
    @res

    sqrt(pi) is the area under the curve

  183. Paleoconn says:
    @Steve Sailer

    That last play was a comedy of errors on both sides, no doubt. For sure, most prominent were Taylor’s flub, and Smith’s drop on the swipe tag, but nobody else mentioned Muncy’s poor throw way on the right side of the catcher, forcing him to hasten the turn to the plate. I wonder if somebody is coaching the catcher on plays like that where the runner is clearly DOA, ‘take your time, Will, you got him’.

    Arozarena was like me running the bases, torso getting too ahead of legs. Phillips rounding second was silly too, as Arozarena would be the winning run, but the kid must have been overwhelmed by the excitement. I loved Phillips’ kid-like ‘baseball is fun’ comment in the post game interview as he’s catching his breath, the best summary ever.

  184. @Mustela Mendax

    These autosomal DNA tests only tell you your biogeographical ancestry going back 250-300 years (10 generations). They won’t tell you anything about your ancestry say 800 or 2500 years ago so they’re quite useless.

    • Replies: @res
  185. @res

    Perhaps a useful thought experiment would be to ask how aliens would categorize humans lacking any of our historical baggage? Or how biologists would categorize animals exhibiting similar patterns?

    lol. That’s been done since the 1950s if not earlier – read the literature. Non-human species that show the same population structure (isolation-by-distance) as modern humans are not recognised to have subspecies (geographical races). This is why ‘race realism’ is 100% a political ideology and not based on any science.

    • Replies: @res
  186. res says:
    @Oliver D. Smith

    That’s been done since the 1950s if not earlier – read the literature.

    Right. I have discussed this with you before (and reading those comments should make clear I have already read some of that literature). The question is how much of that work is any good and not just disingenuous tap dancing around reality (kind of like your comments).

    Non-human species that show the same population structure (isolation-by-distance) as modern humans are not recognised to have subspecies (geographical races).

    That needs a citation (actually many since you made it as an absolute statement, and only one counterexample is necessary to disprove it). And a bit more rigor and consistency concerning the definition of “isolation by distance” since you seem to use different definitions as it suits you (e.g. the papers you cite which adjust distance for barriers).

    This is why ‘race realism’ is 100% a political ideology and not based on any science.

    Now THAT is LOL worthy.

  187. res says:
    @Oliver D. Smith

    They won’t tell you anything about your ancestry say 800 or 2500 years ago so they’re quite useless.

    That’s rather blatantly false. But at least it is consistent with your apparent belief in massive gene flow between all ancient human populations.

    P.S. I think it is hard to dispute that at minimum those tests can be informative about continent level origins (e.g. the Americas vs. Europe) during that time frame.

  188. @duncsbaby

    You are clearly a man of great taste and fine sensibilities, Mr. Duncsbaby.

    I thank you for your musical recommendation. I found it inspirational so much so I’m writing in a stilted and halting form so as to not get carried away with the inner energy your song has unleashed within.

    Allow me to return the favour:

    Please keep posting music at Sailer’s

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS