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A reader on Twitter asked me:

Isn’t soccer culture—fans, causes, etc.—way gayer than normal men’s sports?

I replied: Nah, outside of Portland, soccer culture around the world is more proletarian, nationalist, populist, laddish, violent, sectarian, and racist than American sports cultures, which are more genteel because they are aimed at college alumni and the corporate classes.

The reader thanked me and said he was from Portland, OR, so he didn’t realize soccer wasn’t like that elsewhere.

In Portland, following soccer is an affectation of globalist opposition to the American nation and culture. Most other places, soccer manifests itself as concentric rings of loyalty to neighborhood, city, and nation, or perhaps to religion or class.

The reason the soccer authorities are constantly launching campaigns to refine the behavior of fans and players is because otherwise they’d be deplorable. Not just what Hillary Clinton would consider deplorable, but what any sane burgher would deplore.

E.g., in 1980, I met on a train in Switzerland some English soccer louts going to Turin to smash up the plate glass windows of downtown after the match as a show of strength. They held the Italian soccer fans in contempt because the Italians appeared like they rather wouldn’t fight and only showed up to the riots started by the English marauders to defend their home town from attack.

According to Ken Burns’ Baseball documentary, in the 1890s the National League was turning into what English soccer was for most of the 20th Century — an excuse for drunken Irishmen to brawl. So Ban Johnson founded the American League to be respectable middle class family entertainment, and it was a huge success.

In the 1970s, fights were pretty common at baseball stadiums, but in the 1980s they implemented a lot of smarter security systems and fighting became less common again.

American football emerged out of elite colleges. By the time professional football took off around 60 years ago, it tended to be aimed most of all at corporate white collar workers.

Basketball also was first a college sport, then a professional one.

In American pro football and basketball, the draft of collegiate players severs ties of localism to local heroes. The NBA used to give pro teams first pick at local players — that’s how Wilt Chamberlain wound up back home in Philadelphia, but soon dumped that. E.g., Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a cultured product of the Harlem Renaissance and had starred at UCLA, but the NBA draft sent him to Milwaukee of all random places.

European pro soccer is following a somewhat similar path, but it has its roots in neighborhood sports clubs

Canadian ice hockey was a pro sport that encouraged fist-fighting on the ice, but the fans tend to be good-natured. (In the couple of professional wrestling shows I’ve been to, the fans were particularly warm and respectful toward each other. WWE fans seem to like other WWE fans a lot.)

I don’t know the full story of how the British soccer authorities cut way back on hooliganism. There were two huge tragedies in soccer stadiums in the 1980s, one the fault of hooligans, the other of authorities worried about hooliganism.

At that point, I think, people like Rupert Murdoch, who was helping start the Premier League to cash in on TV money, said: This is stupid.

American football is brutal on the field but peaceful in the stands. That’s because it attracts people who can pay for a nice experience. The old English soccer grounds tended to be built like slaughterhouse holding pens by designers terrified that the crowded cattle would stampede.

So, they switched over to reserved seating for almost everybody and other American amenities, and soccer’s appeal to the middle and upper classes broadened considerably.

But I know even less about the sociology of soccer on the Continent.

Most countries that have won the World Cup have had far right dictatorships at some point in the 20th Century:

Brazil 5, Germany 4, Italy 4, Argentina 2, France 2, Uruguay 2, and Spain 1. Only England, with one championship in 1966, is the only World Cup winner to have gotten through the 20th Century without a rightist dictatorship.

 
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  1. anonymous[342] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    We live in truly extraordinary times. Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes. Fuentes is an alt-right social media star who mainly appeals to other college aged white Christians.

    Here is a sample of his most notable work.

    Nick Fuentes warns that if “the Jews” don’t stop oppressing people like him, it will soon lead to violence: “When it comes to the Jews, every society where shit has gone down with these people, it always goes from zero to sixty.”

    Trump is now in disavow mode but it might be too late. The worst fear of Jews was even a leader with Jewish grandchildren and love for Israel could not be trusted if he awakened white populism. The movement was always to going to energize and gravitate to a guy like Fuentes. Trump can either drop out of the 2024 race or stick to the new path of calling for limits on Jewish power and telling Israel it needs to fight Iran on its own.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    @anonymous

    Third option: Just pretend it never happened lol

    , @Ralph L
    @anonymous

    it always goes from zero to sixty

    Young people today don't even learn idioms properly. "In no time flat" might have been edited out, I suppose. Ferdinand and Isabella and Edward I could not understand what he meant, either, and declined to comment.

    , @Ron Mexico
    @anonymous

    This is all staged. Fuentes says he is supporting DeSantis.

    , @Swish
    @anonymous

    The occasional off-topic comment surely is fine. This smacks of a desperate F5'ing of the screen so as to post this unutterable b.s. as soon as a new post was published (first, no less). I would hang my head in shame for derailing a thread of soccer-related banter with this.

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @anonymous


    "Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes."
     
    So, one White populist who can't be bothered to read sat down for dinner with another White populist who can't be bothered to read
  2. • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Dream

    Thanks.

    , @michael droy
    @Dream

    Not surprised. BAME has always been problematic, and there is a genuine search for something better. Seems reasonable to expect a variety of trial names.

    Replies: @Joe Joe

  3. Some people think the 1990s Serbia-Croatia War started at a soccer game riot.

    https://balkaninsight.com/2016/05/13/1990-football-riot-remains-croatia-s-national-myth-05-12-2016/

  4. Soccer is self-evidently gay but thanks for the rousingly gay essay explaining otherwise

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @anon


    Soccer is self-evidently gay
     
    Gayer than American football, where the QB sticks his hands up the Center's butt?

    Not that's there's anything wrong with that...
  5. I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won’t be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else’s drug-based achievement is pathetic.
    A lot of science fiction products from the late sixties to the mid-seventies come from hand-wringing over football violence. In one, I think by Sidmak, the authorities opt to just lock the gates and let folks brawl.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @J.Ross


    I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won’t be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else’s drug-based achievement is pathetic.
     
    This.

    When your football club is a bunch of your fellow factory workers from your mill town, rooting as a way of expressing your local and class interests perhaps has some meaning.

    But basically all this energy on spectator sports is not just wasted tribal energy, it is a dissipation, a destruction--now clearly intentional--of natural male energy to fight for their people and patch.

    Look at the NFL. Look how seamlessly soccer fan "hooligan" energy has been diverted into rooting for teams full of a bunch of random foreigners and Africans. "Right wing" ... LOL.

    No, sports fandom is one method globalist scum have used to divert males from what they is being done to them, their nations. "Hey look a squirrel."

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @J.Ross


    Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous...
     
    Hear, hear!!

    watching others is neutral
     
    I'd say that's contextual. If you're, for example, watching a friend or relative, or watching an activity you yourself do out of technical interest, it's neutral. But just watching strangers doing an activity you yourself are too bad at to do professionally or too lazy to do as an amateur is kind of pathetic.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @RadicalCenter

    , @Known Fact
    @J.Ross


    A lot of science fiction products from the late sixties to the mid-seventies come from hand-wringing over football violence.
     
    In the sometimes insightful Rollerball (1975) this bizarre sport is used by the corporate overlords to control and distract the masses -- as well as to push the team concept for society and banish any shred of individuality. So they are quite distressed when star player James Caan becomes a heroic, transcendant figure bigger than the sport itself.

    "Game? It was never meant to be a game," Caan is ominously warned at one point

    Replies: @Rolf

  6. In Portland, following soccer is an affectation of globalist opposition to the American nation and culture. Most other places, soccer manifests itself as concentric rings of loyalty to neighborhood, city, and nation, or perhaps to religion or class.

    America

    England

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Football is serious business, lads

    https://youtu.be/Kfr6fGDFvmk?t=3545

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Rooster16
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Yes, in America this is my experience as well. Our local semi-pro soccer team is essentially a sports conduit for lgbtq propaganda. Soccer is seen as “un-American” thus it’s to be celebrated by the left. Anytime something can be used to bash America and its culture; the left will promote it.

    Replies: @Jack P, @Wokechoke

    , @rienzi
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    The "America" picture is of Liverpool fans. So, LGBT+++ positive? Of course!

  7. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    In Portland, following soccer is an affectation of globalist opposition to the American nation and culture. Most other places, soccer manifests itself as concentric rings of loyalty to neighborhood, city, and nation, or perhaps to religion or class.
     
    America

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/04/17/fashion/17PREMIER1/17JPPREMIER1-jumbo.jpg

    England

    https://twitter.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1594677974938570752

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Rooster16, @rienzi

    Football is serious business, lads

    • Agree: Cutter
    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    Football is serious business, lads
     
    Indeed:

    https://youtu.be/2hvZQHt9_K0
  8. Also, soccer in the US is a game you can attend without worrying about bumping into Negro fans.

    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
    @Redneck farmer


    Also, soccer in the US is a game you can attend without worrying about bumping into Negro fans.
     
    A few weeks ago, the Bucs played the Seahawks in Allianz Arena, Munich, home of Bundesliga power Bayern Munich. I didn't watch the whole thing, but from what I did see, almost every single fan in the stands was white. Not only that, but at one point they all started singing 'Country Roads' by John Denver. I was floored. I gotta admit that fifty thousand white people singing 'Country Roads' on the other side of the world moved me more than anything has in a long time. After the game, a lot of them stuck around in the stadium, and they sang it again. Who knew John Denver was so big in Germany? https://twitter.com/JennaLaineESPN/status/1591845818113617921
  9. • Replies: @Cutter
    @Anonymous

    He's a cheap knockoff of Bronze Age Pervert, who I don't believe have ever spoken on soccer.

  10. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    The irony is that the game of soccer – and all organised ‘team sports’ as it happens – are a product of English public – which actually means private and high fee paying – schools during the ‘high’ Victorian period of the second half of the nineteenth century.

    The era of naked shameless imperialism, pomp, pomposity ‘effortless superiority’ of both race and class, ‘manly’ virtues of conquest and warfare, muscular Christianity, Kipling, hero worship of ancient Greek athleticism, overt snobbery, strong class distinctions and emnities, repugnance of homosexuality etc etc.

    For some reason soccer became a spectator sport during this period, the upper classes forming amateur teams outside of the public school setting, as a means of recreation and leisure. In true Galtonian fashion the English upper classes of that time – and of present! – tended to be bigger, stronger and better looking than the lower classes.
    For whatever reason, in those pure electronic media days, soccer began to attract a proletarian lower class audience. The lower classes obsessing over the sport of those who literally lorded over them and often held them in contempt.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn't get paid until they recovered. Maybe that's why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Anonymous, @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @jimmyriddle

  11. @Anonymous
    The irony is that the game of soccer - and all organised 'team sports' as it happens - are a product of English public - which actually means private and high fee paying - schools during the 'high' Victorian period of the second half of the nineteenth century.

    The era of naked shameless imperialism, pomp, pomposity 'effortless superiority' of both race and class, 'manly' virtues of conquest and warfare, muscular Christianity, Kipling, hero worship of ancient Greek athleticism, overt snobbery, strong class distinctions and emnities, repugnance of homosexuality etc etc.

    For some reason soccer became a spectator sport during this period, the upper classes forming amateur teams outside of the public school setting, as a means of recreation and leisure. In true Galtonian fashion the English upper classes of that time - and of present! - tended to be bigger, stronger and better looking than the lower classes.
    For whatever reason, in those pure electronic media days, soccer began to attract a proletarian lower class audience. The lower classes obsessing over the sport of those who literally lorded over them and often held them in contempt.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn’t get paid until they recovered. Maybe that’s why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Steve Sailer

    Workers would be in the factory for five days. Saturday was for a game of Footie, win or lose booze afterward and go watch horses race. Sunday for Church.

    Footie as it was played up until the 1980s was a vastly more brutal sport. Defenders would slide in and hit ankles regularly. Fouling was much more like a check in Ice Hockey. Knees were blown out and concussion from headers with soggy leather Footballs was expected.

    Being a fan in the wrong pub was a good way to get beaten up or knifed.


    Promotion and relegation where a team is punished for losing is the ultimate capitalist sports idea. Your company formally lose prestige and opportunity if you fail.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Cortes

    , @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Rugby, the sport and not the English public school which derived its namesake, enjoys great popularity in Wales and the north of England as both a spectator and participatory sport, especially in former coal mining, steel making and other industrial districts.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    , @John Johnson
    @Steve Sailer

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn’t get paid until they recovered. Maybe that’s why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    That is correct and I don't think people realize how easy it is to get injured playing pick-up rugby or even two hand tackle football.

    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.

    No scholarship, no one watches and you can end up with a cast or rugby ear.

    Replies: @Thea, @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Right_On
    @Steve Sailer

    A common British maxim re 'soccer' and 'rugger':
    "Football is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans, and rugby union is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen." - Arthur Tedder, chancellor of Cambridge University

    Replies: @Right_On

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Steve Sailer

    For the longest time, professional rugby players haven't earned even 10% of what NFL players make.

    Before some major rules changes to tone down the physicality (ca.1960-2010), the NFL was just as violent a sport as rugby.

    Again, pro rugby players don't earn anywhere near as close as NFL players. Some of the top NFL players annual salaries are ca.$50 million, or 41 million pounds. There isn't a single pro rugby player on the planet who earns 41 million pounds per yr. Not a single one.

    Rugby's for suckers. They must not care about the money after all.

    , @jimmyriddle
    @Steve Sailer

    Nope. Rugby is dominant in the coalfieds of South Wales.

    The Rugby vs Football split is quite complicated. Rugby dominates in a lot of more rural (or at least no big cities) areas - SW England, Scotland (outside the Central Belt). That goes for all classes.

    Then there is Rugby League, the professional code (Rugby Union was amateur until the '90s). That dominates the mid-sized towns along the M62 from Liverpool to Hull. A good example is Wigan, which was a centre of coal mining and steel production - the rugby league side often wins trophies, whilst the soccer team is usually found struggling in the lower divisions, and has a much smaller fan base. Rugby league was always quintessentially working class.

    In the South East of England and in the big cities, Rugby vs Football is a class divide.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  12. @Dream
    https://twitter.com/LBCNews/status/1595691492407926784?t=rtCO494oD07nsGOA6ycwOw&s=19

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @michael droy

    Thanks.

  13. Imagine thinking this guy was gay.

    • Agree: Edmund
  14. Left or right? Are we to assume the question to be: Is soccer elitist or populist?

  15. Brazil 5

    Brazil had an earlier dictator before the five military ones who ruled the country from 1964-1985. His name was Getúlio Vargas. He is respected by the left, because he enacted worker-friendly laws, but was more like a fascist.
    As for soccer in Brazil, it comes in all flavors. In São Paulo, Brazil’s largest city, two of the largest soccer teams are Palmeiras and Corinthians. They are commonly associated with opposite political orientations. Palmeiras was founded by Italian immigrants; its fans are usually right-of-center, and perhaps significantly on the far end of the spectrum. Its rival Corinthians, on the other hand, has a strong reputation of being leftwing and proletarian. That kind of thing happens in other towns as well.
    As for the political use of soccer, it is also multi-purpose. During the Brazilian military rule, soccer was used to divert the attention of the masses from politics. Now, after the election won by left-of-center Lula, soccer is being used to bring some solace to the anti-Lula section of the population, and to divert their attention from pro-Bolsonaro fanatics’ claims of election fraud.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Brás Cubas

    It sounds fun to have teams associated with rival political tendencies. I guess Notre Dame U. Fighting Irish football was a Catholic Pride thing. Too bad Brandeis U. didn't have a top ten football team to divert Jewish energies away from rooting for Israel so passionately.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Corvinus, @Muggles

  16. @anonymous
    OT

    We live in truly extraordinary times. Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes. Fuentes is an alt-right social media star who mainly appeals to other college aged white Christians.

    Here is a sample of his most notable work.

    Nick Fuentes warns that if "the Jews" don't stop oppressing people like him, it will soon lead to violence: "When it comes to the Jews, every society where shit has gone down with these people, it always goes from zero to sixty."

    https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888
     
    Trump is now in disavow mode but it might be too late. The worst fear of Jews was even a leader with Jewish grandchildren and love for Israel could not be trusted if he awakened white populism. The movement was always to going to energize and gravitate to a guy like Fuentes. Trump can either drop out of the 2024 race or stick to the new path of calling for limits on Jewish power and telling Israel it needs to fight Iran on its own.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Ralph L, @Ron Mexico, @Swish, @Nicholas Stix

    Third option: Just pretend it never happened lol

  17. @Brás Cubas

    Brazil 5
     
    Brazil had an earlier dictator before the five military ones who ruled the country from 1964-1985. His name was Getúlio Vargas. He is respected by the left, because he enacted worker-friendly laws, but was more like a fascist.
    As for soccer in Brazil, it comes in all flavors. In São Paulo, Brazil's largest city, two of the largest soccer teams are Palmeiras and Corinthians. They are commonly associated with opposite political orientations. Palmeiras was founded by Italian immigrants; its fans are usually right-of-center, and perhaps significantly on the far end of the spectrum. Its rival Corinthians, on the other hand, has a strong reputation of being leftwing and proletarian. That kind of thing happens in other towns as well.
    As for the political use of soccer, it is also multi-purpose. During the Brazilian military rule, soccer was used to divert the attention of the masses from politics. Now, after the election won by left-of-center Lula, soccer is being used to bring some solace to the anti-Lula section of the population, and to divert their attention from pro-Bolsonaro fanatics' claims of election fraud.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    It sounds fun to have teams associated with rival political tendencies. I guess Notre Dame U. Fighting Irish football was a Catholic Pride thing. Too bad Brandeis U. didn’t have a top ten football team to divert Jewish energies away from rooting for Israel so passionately.

    • LOL: Gordo
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    @Steve Sailer

    LOL, I'm so sorry I misconstrued those numbers as the number of dictators instead of times the country won the cup.
    Anyway, it seems in the U.S., judging from your examples, the sectariarianism is more of an ethnic thing than a class thing, whereas in Brazil it's the other way around (I think the ethnic component still exists, but to a smaller extent).

    , @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    “In the 1970s, fights were pretty common at baseball stadiums“

    And you know this how? Anecdotal? Specific sources?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @Steve Sailer

    , @Muggles
    @Steve Sailer


    Too bad Brandeis U. didn’t have a top ten football team to divert Jewish energies away from rooting for Israel so passionately.
     
    Yes, funny observation.

    Speaking of "noticing" here, has anyone done the laborious task of counting up the number of the Chosen playing in the NFL? Past or present?

    They are a minority of a minority.

    Where does the ADL stand on this exclusionary sport?
  18. The longer distances between postwar US pro and college teams have probably reduced rivals rioting until after a championship. Then we have stupid fans trashing their own cities.

    Now you’ve made me wonder if the decades-long promotion of the Research Triangle wasn’t partly an attempt to make Duke, Carolina, and NC State students and fans more civil towards each other, not just a private/public partnership (gak!) to make money in real estate sales and increased property taxes.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Ralph L

    The worst example of bad behavior from American football fans I can think of is when an Alabama fan poisoned Auburn’s famous tree. And as far as pro football goes, Philadelphia Eagles’ fans seem to be in a class by themselves, famous for booing Santa Claus and having a jail at the stadium to process miscreants. I haven’t heard much about them assaulting fans of rival teams though.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

  19. @Dream
    https://twitter.com/LBCNews/status/1595691492407926784?t=rtCO494oD07nsGOA6ycwOw&s=19

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @michael droy

    Not surprised. BAME has always been problematic, and there is a genuine search for something better. Seems reasonable to expect a variety of trial names.

    • Replies: @Joe Joe
    @michael droy

    how about calling them "non-whites"???

  20. I don’t know the full story of how the British soccer authorities cut way back on hooliganism.

    I don’t know the full story either, but a large part was CCTV and stewards watching the crowd. Also the courts can ban a hooligan from all football grounds, sometimes for life.

  21. Culture is contextual. In the US soccer isn’t a main sport and so it’s appeal lies to people with intellectual curiosity and hipsters, people who are mostly middle class or of such mentality. I watched the MLS cup final and saw trans flags among the LAFC ‘ultras’. Spike Lee watches soccer as a kind of anti-national xenophilia embracing all the high-context cultural aspects of another culture that would demeaned by Spike Lee if he grew up in Britain.

    But nationalism is also culturally distinct. In several European countries there is such a thing as ‘left wing nationalism’, the big divide is essentially between national identities that are based on superiority and ruling or controlling others and those based on defense and on ingroup solidarity over outgroup antipathy. But even in those contexts the expression is still working class and not cringe middle class wokeness. Though dumb ideas do get through usually through sheer force of will or through middle class attendance. It’s because the idea is popular among enough or unacceptable to opposed among enough of the working class.

    For instance in the Balkans, Turkey ultras are manifestations of collective psychologies and right wing nationalism that seemed based on solidarity that needs an enemy to fight and which tend towards low social trust and low cooperation and generally crappy societies full of people who exploit more cooperative ones when they emigrate there. Since Basketball is popular in South Eastern Europe and since all of the big teams are part of similar big soccer clubs, ultras can be found there too and are much more impactful in small enclosed environments.

    We instinctively see such displays and know both that those people are in intense cooperation (In banding together to fight an outgroup) and also in their daily lives not very cooperative with each other at all. (Low ingroup or too specific an ingroup, ie they and their extended family are in intense competition with everybody else and society is crappy and low trust)

    Such ultras exist in other countries, of course but the numbers are never quite the same nor the intensity. Though in places like Sweden and the Netherlands club fans often form the nucleuses of right wing nationalism. The likes of the Sweden Democrats ultimately come from soccer ultras who allow an environment where such ideas can safely be expressed and developed into political organisation.

    Ingroup solidarity v outgroup antipathy being an interesting spectrum or combination of study in terms of what politics and people support or are created from such ethoses.

    Ultimately soccer in places like the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand where it’s not a popular or common sport will tend towards it being a nice middle class sport with nice middle class supporters and nice middle class sensibilities.

    Where it goes off the rails in a place like Portland is that the idea of getting together and shouting at an enemy deeply appeals to cluster B fuckups but if those cluster B fuckups identify with the left you get wokeness and antifa.

    And just for fun more clips of extreme ultra activity. Though most of this is rare in it’s intensity.

  22. Interesting piece.
    Violence has not been a thing at English football grounds for over 20 years now.
    There are several reasons.
    Starting with the all-seater rules which followed the Taylor Report on the Hillsborough disaster.
    Football is 2*45 mins with little or no overtime so fans can be in and out of the stadium within 1h45m (and back to the pub). Seats had been only for the rich and elderly. And the Terraces at each end for those standing had been open so that the more noisy and aggressive fans could congregate together.

    The start of the Premier League in 1992 also made a big difference. The league went up market, TV money, new investors, star foreign players and increasingly TV sales to other countries. There are now 3 big money events in football, the World cup, the champions League (for top teams across Europe) and the Premier League (no other national league gets close).

    There was a virtuous circle of interdependent changes – more expensive seating, better players, more competition, fantastic marketing, a richer category of customers, rapidly declining violence from fans.
    But sharing TV money across all clubs remarkably evenly made the biggest difference as even the weakest PL teams are now at top 6 level in any other league. Big clubs still get money if they play in Europe and get bigger sponsorship deals, but smaller clubs can still import top players. In Spain it used to be that the big clubs sold their own TV rights and so 2 out of 20 clubs took 85% of TV revenue. Spain has learnt its lesson and changed recently.

    Also from around late 1970s onwards the Police and clubs got their act to eliminate violence.
    Cameras and radios started to get used to identify trouble makers and guide police to them to remove them from the ground. A few Police would follow their local fans to away grounds to identify the known offenders. New court punishments were created that could ban a trouble maker from going within 10 miles of his football team, home or away, on a match day. And clubs created a membership scheme so that only members could buy tickets (and potentially lose the membership for bad behaviour).
    In the 1970s I would estimate one third of football fans at a game were away team supporters (much more feasible here in Europe than in US). Of course that leads to a lads culture, heavy drinking, and a lack of respect for local people and buildings, not just to noisy singing. In the 2020s, that is probably closer to 10% away fans (who at most grounds out-sing the home crowd as they are all in one place rather than scattered about the stadium).

    • Thanks: Gordo
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @michael droy

    You are making our point in spades: The irony is that soccer is such a mamby/pamby sport, the actual on field or on the pitch action, that is, is minimal in way of violence (especially when compared to other more physical sports like rugby or NFL), and yet for some strange reason, the most violence that occurs is from the fans, and not the players. Still having a hard time understanding why this would be the case, as the games themselves tend to be as boring as watching varnish paint dry. A bunch of kids running after the ball--back and forth, back and forth, 90 minutes of back and forth, etc.

    For the NFL, the violence off the field is certainly there, but is greatly outweighed by the violence on the field.

    Perhaps footie could take a lesson from across the pond, and increase the on-pitch physicality which might in turn serve to tone down some of the remaining violence from the fans.

  23. @anonymous
    OT

    We live in truly extraordinary times. Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes. Fuentes is an alt-right social media star who mainly appeals to other college aged white Christians.

    Here is a sample of his most notable work.

    Nick Fuentes warns that if "the Jews" don't stop oppressing people like him, it will soon lead to violence: "When it comes to the Jews, every society where shit has gone down with these people, it always goes from zero to sixty."

    https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888
     
    Trump is now in disavow mode but it might be too late. The worst fear of Jews was even a leader with Jewish grandchildren and love for Israel could not be trusted if he awakened white populism. The movement was always to going to energize and gravitate to a guy like Fuentes. Trump can either drop out of the 2024 race or stick to the new path of calling for limits on Jewish power and telling Israel it needs to fight Iran on its own.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Ralph L, @Ron Mexico, @Swish, @Nicholas Stix

    it always goes from zero to sixty

    Young people today don’t even learn idioms properly. “In no time flat” might have been edited out, I suppose. Ferdinand and Isabella and Edward I could not understand what he meant, either, and declined to comment.

  24. Most countries that have won the World Cup have had far right dictatorships at some point in the 20th Century: Brazil 5, Germany 4, Italy 4, Argentina 2, France 2, Uruguay 2, and Spain 1.

    Yeah, and most Latin American countries – where soccer is big everywhere – flip from Commie to Right-wing and back regularly. Argentina is an example. 3 out of your 4 Euro countries came damned close to becoming Communist in the 20th Century. I leave that trivial exercise for the reader. (It was the hard-right that prevented Communism in at least 2 of them.)

    Hence, the term Communist Kickball stands.

    • Replies: @John Pepple
    @Achmed E. Newman

    By parallel reasoning, Mexican food is commie food.

  25. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn't get paid until they recovered. Maybe that's why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Anonymous, @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @jimmyriddle

    Workers would be in the factory for five days. Saturday was for a game of Footie, win or lose booze afterward and go watch horses race. Sunday for Church.

    Footie as it was played up until the 1980s was a vastly more brutal sport. Defenders would slide in and hit ankles regularly. Fouling was much more like a check in Ice Hockey. Knees were blown out and concussion from headers with soggy leather Footballs was expected.

    Being a fan in the wrong pub was a good way to get beaten up or knifed.

    Promotion and relegation where a team is punished for losing is the ultimate capitalist sports idea. Your company formally lose prestige and opportunity if you fail.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Wokechoke

    "Footie as it was played up until the 1980s was a vastly more brutal sport."

    Yea, perhaps for the toffs it was fairly brutal.

    "Defenders would slide in and hit ankles regularly. Fouling was much more like a check in Ice Hockey. Knees were blown out and concussion from headers with soggy leather Footballs was expected."

    Knees blown out? Oh my f'ing gawd! Spare us, that's all too much, really now. Still wasn't and isn't 10% the violence of the NFL. The blokes have no idea what violence in sport really comprises if all they've seen is soccer.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Cortes
    @Wokechoke

    Since about 1985 there’s been a drive towards takeovers of Europe’s clubs by corporations. At the same time, corporate infiltration into UEFA and FIFA has magnified the revenue of professional football from TV and commercial sponsorship. What’s interesting is how the tendency towards conversion of sporting corporations into quasi religious organisations has been promoted. Statues are now dotted around stadiums. Votive bricks are available as gifts (Gee, thanks, Andy [my older brother] for that 50th birthday present), fans are milked for fleeting mentions on big screens (thanks again, Andy). People who haven’t two halfpennies to rub together find the money to bedeck themselves and the whole family out with “kit” which is vastly overpriced. And then they wear the kit every day. 50 or more years ago those same people would’ve been regular attenders at the Church of their choice. It’s depressing.

    Rant endeth.

    Replies: @Cortes

  26. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn't get paid until they recovered. Maybe that's why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Anonymous, @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @jimmyriddle

    Rugby, the sport and not the English public school which derived its namesake, enjoys great popularity in Wales and the north of England as both a spectator and participatory sport, especially in former coal mining, steel making and other industrial districts.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    American football culture is particularly intense in the coal and steel belt of Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio. Lots of great coaches and quarterbacks from there.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    Rugby, the sport and not the English public school which derived its namesake, enjoys great popularity in Wales and the north of England as both a spectator and participatory sport, especially in former coal mining, steel making and other industrial districts.
     
    A glance around the rugby world reveals the true draw of the sport-- Welsh, other Celts, French, Afrikaners, upper-crust Argentines, Maori-- an opportunity to beat up the English!
  27. @Steve Sailer
    @Brás Cubas

    It sounds fun to have teams associated with rival political tendencies. I guess Notre Dame U. Fighting Irish football was a Catholic Pride thing. Too bad Brandeis U. didn't have a top ten football team to divert Jewish energies away from rooting for Israel so passionately.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Corvinus, @Muggles

    LOL, I’m so sorry I misconstrued those numbers as the number of dictators instead of times the country won the cup.
    Anyway, it seems in the U.S., judging from your examples, the sectariarianism is more of an ethnic thing than a class thing, whereas in Brazil it’s the other way around (I think the ethnic component still exists, but to a smaller extent).

  28. @michael droy
    @Dream

    Not surprised. BAME has always been problematic, and there is a genuine search for something better. Seems reasonable to expect a variety of trial names.

    Replies: @Joe Joe

    how about calling them “non-whites”???

  29. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Football is serious business, lads

    https://youtu.be/Kfr6fGDFvmk?t=3545

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Football is serious business, lads

    Indeed:

  30. @Ralph L
    The longer distances between postwar US pro and college teams have probably reduced rivals rioting until after a championship. Then we have stupid fans trashing their own cities.

    Now you've made me wonder if the decades-long promotion of the Research Triangle wasn't partly an attempt to make Duke, Carolina, and NC State students and fans more civil towards each other, not just a private/public partnership (gak!) to make money in real estate sales and increased property taxes.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy

    The worst example of bad behavior from American football fans I can think of is when an Alabama fan poisoned Auburn’s famous tree. And as far as pro football goes, Philadelphia Eagles’ fans seem to be in a class by themselves, famous for booing Santa Claus and having a jail at the stadium to process miscreants. I haven’t heard much about them assaulting fans of rival teams though.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Hapalong Cassidy


    Philadelphia Eagles’ fans...famous for booing Santa Claus
     
    They're a pretty low-rent set of fans but I have to give them a pass for booing "Santa". He wasn't actually a real Santa, he was just some random fan dressed partly as Santa Claus. They'd hired a Santa who didn't show, so looked around for Plan B and found this poor sap. He looked like what he was - a skinny random fan dressed partly as Santa.

    For similarly low-class, I'll go with the mainly federal trough-feeding Washington National's fans for 1) loudly booing Trump and 2) loudly cheering Anthony "Mengele" Fauci.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  31. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Rugby, the sport and not the English public school which derived its namesake, enjoys great popularity in Wales and the north of England as both a spectator and participatory sport, especially in former coal mining, steel making and other industrial districts.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    American football culture is particularly intense in the coal and steel belt of Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio. Lots of great coaches and quarterbacks from there.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Steve Sailer


    Eastern Ohio
     
    The University of Miami-Ohio is in Oxford, Ohio, near the western border with Indiana, has been dubbed, "The Cradle of Coaches," based on the dozens of top flight coaches it has produced, particularly in American football:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Coaches
  32. Regarding Rupert Murdoch’s impact in gentrifying the sport, in 1992 he hired Cambridge graduate Nick Hornby to start writing articles on “the beautiful game”promoting the Premier League for his upmarket Times and Sunday Times newspapers, after the publication of his soccer-based first novel Fever Pitch, presumably to drive up more middle-class (called ABC1 in British marketing circles) subscriptions to his Sky Sports. This launched a genre of quasi-intellectual soccer writing that persists in the broadsheet newspapers focusing on the ‘genius’ moves of attacking players and making a particular fetish of Arsenal FC, Hornby’s club.

    This was parallel with the Jewish comedian David Baddiel’s soccer programs on the BBC with his friend Frank Skinner (who was from a more conventional lower-middle class soccer-following background). Baddiel was at Cambridge at the same time as Hornby. Having an upper-middle class Jew (who now makes documentaries about anti-semitism) certainly didn’t hurt in convincing the media classes to take soccer more seriously. By 1997, incoming prime minister Tony Blair, who was at private school in Scotland during the 1970s, found it advantageous to claim to be a Newcastle United fan.

    • Replies: @Ghastly Oik
    @S Johnson

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvjk47UORFs

    , @Steve Sailer
    @S Johnson

    I've read several novels by Nick Hornby and several more by his brother in Law Robert Harris. They are both pretty decent.

    Replies: @S Johnson

  33. Interesting – any links to Murdoch hiring Nick Hornby? I thought Hornby quick rise to fame was based on being Robert Harris brother in law.

  34. As with all forms of corporate entertainment, football is increasingly captured by wokels.

  35. The reader thanked me and said he was from Portland, OR, so he didn’t realize soccer wasn’t like that elsewhere

    The Eternal Normie. Even in a time of global media they are totally oblivious to anything happening outside of the area in which they live.

  36. Once inadvertently passed through a Bernie rally. Lots of soccer fans there.

  37. Good point about WWE fans. I don’t get the appeal but they probably get along because they all know they’re in on the joke (it’s fake) and it gives them a secret society feel.

    I used to steal hats from Yankee fans at Camden Yards. We called it scalping. Who were they to wear their colors in our stadium??? I stopped doing that in my early to mid 20’s. I think other Orioles fans appreciated it. My last fight was 1996 and I still have bite marks on my stomach to prove it!

    Hank Hill has the defining quote about soccer:

    Bobby, Soccer was invented by European ladies to keep them busy while their husbands did the cooking”

  38. According to Ken Burns’ Baseball documentary, in the 1890s the National League was turning into what English soccer was for most of the 20th Century — an excuse for drunken Irishmen to brawl. So Ban Johnson founded the American League to be respectable middle class family entertainment, and it was a huge success.

    This is ironic, in Chicago, it is the American League White Sox that attract groups of drunken guys looking to get rowdy, and the National League Cubs that are known for family entertainment at Wrigley Field.

  39. Metric football is like a chess board where every piece move all the time, maybe on its one.

    The reason the soccer authorities are constantly launching campaigns to refine the behavior of fans and players is because otherwise they’d be deplorable.

    Partially right.

    Hooliganism was killed off after Murdoch and Sky bought the rights to the top league. Brawls are not very family friendly.

  40. I made a comment on this topic on another thread , but the description of the “soccer culture” in Portland sounds much like my experience at an MLS game in St. Paul last summer. Very fake and gay.

  41. @J.Ross
    I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won't be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else's drug-based achievement is pathetic.
    A lot of science fiction products from the late sixties to the mid-seventies come from hand-wringing over football violence. In one, I think by Sidmak, the authorities opt to just lock the gates and let folks brawl.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous, @Known Fact

    I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won’t be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else’s drug-based achievement is pathetic.

    This.

    When your football club is a bunch of your fellow factory workers from your mill town, rooting as a way of expressing your local and class interests perhaps has some meaning.

    But basically all this energy on spectator sports is not just wasted tribal energy, it is a dissipation, a destruction–now clearly intentional–of natural male energy to fight for their people and patch.

    Look at the NFL. Look how seamlessly soccer fan “hooligan” energy has been diverted into rooting for teams full of a bunch of random foreigners and Africans. “Right wing” … LOL.

    No, sports fandom is one method globalist scum have used to divert males from what they is being done to them, their nations. “Hey look a squirrel.”

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @AnotherDad

    This is assuming a kind of zero-sum psychological state in which being pro-Manchester United reduces your ability to be pro-white or pro-English or pro-Tory. I think there are lots of examples, like Steve, of men who are sports spectators and also political partisans. It happens on the Left too. Some of the most liberal people I know--liberal partisans--are football fans.

    To me, the issue is more that, once you realize that your sports spectatoring is a stand-in for being interested in war and having tribal identities, it should free you from that sublimation, allowing you to maintain your real tribal interests while viewing tribal-interest-stand-ins with more disinterest or lack of interest, as appropriate to a man.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @AnotherDad

    Agreed. The commenter Priss Factor embedded a tweet here (don't worry - it's just a comment under a recent John Derbyshire post here on unz) that's got some England vs. Wales soccer fan excitement, but notes:

    Pathetic! All this for football but nothing for millions of their girls who are groomed and raped by Pakistani men.

    It's not any different here. Some guy will threaten to kick your ass for continuing to diss his team of negro thugs. If he loses his job due to AA and spends 3 hours a day watching commercials for cucks, well, that's just life.

  42. @AnotherDad
    @J.Ross


    I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won’t be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else’s drug-based achievement is pathetic.
     
    This.

    When your football club is a bunch of your fellow factory workers from your mill town, rooting as a way of expressing your local and class interests perhaps has some meaning.

    But basically all this energy on spectator sports is not just wasted tribal energy, it is a dissipation, a destruction--now clearly intentional--of natural male energy to fight for their people and patch.

    Look at the NFL. Look how seamlessly soccer fan "hooligan" energy has been diverted into rooting for teams full of a bunch of random foreigners and Africans. "Right wing" ... LOL.

    No, sports fandom is one method globalist scum have used to divert males from what they is being done to them, their nations. "Hey look a squirrel."

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Achmed E. Newman

    This is assuming a kind of zero-sum psychological state in which being pro-Manchester United reduces your ability to be pro-white or pro-English or pro-Tory. I think there are lots of examples, like Steve, of men who are sports spectators and also political partisans. It happens on the Left too. Some of the most liberal people I know–liberal partisans–are football fans.

    To me, the issue is more that, once you realize that your sports spectatoring is a stand-in for being interested in war and having tribal identities, it should free you from that sublimation, allowing you to maintain your real tribal interests while viewing tribal-interest-stand-ins with more disinterest or lack of interest, as appropriate to a man.

  43. E.g., Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a cultured product of the Harlem Renaissance and had starred at UCLA, but the NBA draft sent him to Milwaukee of all random places.

    He turned down a bigger offer from the New York Nets, as well as the Globetrotters.

    Most countries that have won the World Cup have had far right dictatorships at some point in the 20th Century:

    Brazil 5, Germany 4, Italy 4, Argentina 2, France 2, Uruguay 2, and Spain 1.

    Franco, maybe. But were any of the others to the right of, say, Calvin Coolidge, or William Howard Taft? Mussolini saw himself as a leftist, Perón as a populist.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  44. @J.Ross
    I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won't be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else's drug-based achievement is pathetic.
    A lot of science fiction products from the late sixties to the mid-seventies come from hand-wringing over football violence. In one, I think by Sidmak, the authorities opt to just lock the gates and let folks brawl.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous, @Known Fact

    Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous…

    Hear, hear!!

    watching others is neutral

    I’d say that’s contextual. If you’re, for example, watching a friend or relative, or watching an activity you yourself do out of technical interest, it’s neutral. But just watching strangers doing an activity you yourself are too bad at to do professionally or too lazy to do as an amateur is kind of pathetic.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Chrisnonymous

    By this logic, reading Steve’s blog is pathetic. You should just write in a journal and only read your own writing.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Chrisnonymous

    Appreciate the sentiment up to a point, but maybe rein it in.

    For example, it shouldn’t be considered pathetic to attend a symphony concert when we lack the ability and/or training to play such beautiful complex music.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Chrisnonymous

  45. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Rugby, the sport and not the English public school which derived its namesake, enjoys great popularity in Wales and the north of England as both a spectator and participatory sport, especially in former coal mining, steel making and other industrial districts.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    Rugby, the sport and not the English public school which derived its namesake, enjoys great popularity in Wales and the north of England as both a spectator and participatory sport, especially in former coal mining, steel making and other industrial districts.

    A glance around the rugby world reveals the true draw of the sport– Welsh, other Celts, French, Afrikaners, upper-crust Argentines, Maori– an opportunity to beat up the English!

  46. @J.Ross
    I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won't be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else's drug-based achievement is pathetic.
    A lot of science fiction products from the late sixties to the mid-seventies come from hand-wringing over football violence. In one, I think by Sidmak, the authorities opt to just lock the gates and let folks brawl.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Chrisnonymous, @Known Fact

    A lot of science fiction products from the late sixties to the mid-seventies come from hand-wringing over football violence.

    In the sometimes insightful Rollerball (1975) this bizarre sport is used by the corporate overlords to control and distract the masses — as well as to push the team concept for society and banish any shred of individuality. So they are quite distressed when star player James Caan becomes a heroic, transcendant figure bigger than the sport itself.

    “Game? It was never meant to be a game,” Caan is ominously warned at one point

    • Replies: @Rolf
    @Known Fact

    Pretty good film. I remember seeing it in the theatre as a 15 year old. The future in which Rollerball was to have taken place was….. 2018.

    Replies: @Known Fact

  47. I remember when the Italian soccer team that won the World Cup literally trained in the art of false victimization–they had taking-a-dive practices–and at the crucial moment they goaded all-time legend Zidane into headbutting one of them and getting kicked out of the final game of his career. The Italian player accused Zidane of having sex with his own sister, I think. Therefore, soccer is left.

  48. @Steve Sailer
    @Brás Cubas

    It sounds fun to have teams associated with rival political tendencies. I guess Notre Dame U. Fighting Irish football was a Catholic Pride thing. Too bad Brandeis U. didn't have a top ten football team to divert Jewish energies away from rooting for Israel so passionately.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Corvinus, @Muggles

    “In the 1970s, fights were pretty common at baseball stadiums“

    And you know this how? Anecdotal? Specific sources?

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Corvinus

    I am a world-renowned baseball scholar, and I can confirm that Steve is correct. Stop wasting everyone's time with your frivolous distractions.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/142952-ten-cent-beer-night-the-worst-idea-ever

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Corvinus

    A Bill James essay.

    Replies: @anonymous, @William Badwhite, @Corvinus

  49. Isn’t soccer culture—fans, causes, etc.—way gayer than normal men’s sports?

    I replied: Nah, outside of Portland, soccer culture around the world is more proletarian, nationalist, populist, laddish, violent, sectarian, and racist

    Is anything in Portland not gay?

    • Replies: @mmack
    @Almost Missouri

    I had a girlfriend who was born and raised in Portland, OR.

    She was DEFINITELY not gay. 😉👩‍❤️‍💋‍👨

    , @John Johnson
    @Almost Missouri

    Is anything in Portland not gay?

    That's actually a really good question.

    Weirdly enough it has the most strip bars per capita.

    Some of the downtown bars are really good and not gay at all.

    Much better place to visit than Seattle which has become a total tourist trap and overfilled with condos.

  50. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/ChevaucheeN/status/1595075110142357504

    Replies: @Cutter

    He’s a cheap knockoff of Bronze Age Pervert, who I don’t believe have ever spoken on soccer.

  51. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    American football culture is particularly intense in the coal and steel belt of Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio. Lots of great coaches and quarterbacks from there.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Eastern Ohio

    The University of Miami-Ohio is in Oxford, Ohio, near the western border with Indiana, has been dubbed, “The Cradle of Coaches,” based on the dozens of top flight coaches it has produced, particularly in American football:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Coaches

  52. If you look at statistics like the percentage of 20-somethings who identify as LGBT, Americans are significantly gayer than the French or Germans. Patriotards don’t want to hear it, I know.

  53. Maybe due to the German-American culture, soccer has long been especially popular around the St Louis area, well before it became more widespread around the country. In contrast to soccer hooliganism, it always struck me as a gentlemanly upscale suburban type of activity, almost like lacrosse. (And certainly not the beloved media cliche of poor Hispanic kids kicking a battered pelota around some garbage-strewn slum)

    I personally liked playing soccer and am extremely left-footed, so I was always useful up and down that side.

  54. Hasn’t anyone noticed that the rainbows snuck into Qatar constitute actual white supremacism?

    At least Denmark’s subtle blank red shirts protested worker abuse. But imposing even minimally humane standards from the West is also white-supremacist. Gen. Napier and all that…

  55. @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    “In the 1970s, fights were pretty common at baseball stadiums“

    And you know this how? Anecdotal? Specific sources?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @Steve Sailer

    I am a world-renowned baseball scholar, and I can confirm that Steve is correct. Stop wasting everyone’s time with your frivolous distractions.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/142952-ten-cent-beer-night-the-worst-idea-ever

  56. International soccer is mostly about patriotism. It is good for sales of flags.

    As George Orwell said: My Country Right or Left.

    The current World Cup has produced some astonishing upsets.

    Japan beat Germany! Saudi Arabia beat Argentina! And now Morocco beat Belgium. As Oprah would say: Whaaaat?

    Actually, I have an explanation.

    A few weeks ago I was talking to an Ecuadorian woman about her country’s chances in the World Cup. She said that they would not do well, because the players were highly paid by their various international clubs, but were paid peanuts by the Ecuador national team.

    Actually the Ecuador team have done quite well so far, beating Qatar and then drawing with Holland who are one of the tournament favorites.

    However, the same principle can be applied to some of the other successful soccer countries. Major stars of the game who have been paid vast amounts of money for years are more concerned about performing for their club than their country.

    The World Cup for them is just like unpaid mandatory overtime.

    Meanwhile, the lesser known players of the upstart soccer nations are national heroes when they win, and with the World Cup being a kind of job fair for soccer players, success can bring a future as multi-millionaires.

    The US captain 23-year-old Tyler Adams is of course already a multi-millionaire, but has already greatly increased his future value by his performance in two drawn games against England and Wales.

    This World Cup coincides with the fact that many of the great names of soccer are aging billionaire Lion Kings of the game and ripe for the taking. Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Bale are all much closer to 40 than to 20 and have untold wealth that most people could only dream of. They are still good for winning a few penalties with tricks, but mostly their legs have gone.

    Who will win the World Cup this time? I do not have the faintest idea, but I imagine that the winning team will have a lot of luck with dubious referee decisions, and will survive at least one penalty kick shootout.

    Uruguay might be a good value for money bet as they are very good at cheating and not in the slightest bit woke.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Jonathan Mason


    Major stars of the game who have been paid vast amounts of money for years are more concerned about performing for their club than their country.

    The World Cup for them is just like unpaid mandatory overtime.
     
    It depends on the country & culture.

    I don't care much about football, but I've noticed that in a homogeneous country like my homeland Croatia, major stars get some psychological patriotic kick & they fight like lions for- what? Not for money, they have enough of it already. They are fighting a war for their sacred fatherland. To be or not to be.


    That's what most people of the egotist & post-modernist mind fail to understand.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @S Johnson

  57. “in the 1890s the National League was turning into what English soccer was for most of the 20th Century — an excuse for drunken Irishmen to brawl. So Ban Johnson founded the American League to be respectable middle class family entertainment, and it was a huge success.”

    I laughed because in Chicago the team for the drunken Irishmen “an udder et-nicks” (sorry, My Chicagoese slipped out, “and other ethnics”) is the White Sox on Da Sout Side, who are an American League team.

    The stuck up Northsiders and Suburbanites from Naperville and Schaumburg root for the Cubs. 😏

  58. @Almost Missouri


    Isn’t soccer culture—fans, causes, etc.—way gayer than normal men’s sports?
     
    I replied: Nah, outside of Portland, soccer culture around the world is more proletarian, nationalist, populist, laddish, violent, sectarian, and racist
     
    Is anything in Portland not gay?

    Replies: @mmack, @John Johnson

    I had a girlfriend who was born and raised in Portland, OR.

    She was DEFINITELY not gay. 😉👩‍❤️‍💋‍👨

  59. @Almost Missouri


    Isn’t soccer culture—fans, causes, etc.—way gayer than normal men’s sports?
     
    I replied: Nah, outside of Portland, soccer culture around the world is more proletarian, nationalist, populist, laddish, violent, sectarian, and racist
     
    Is anything in Portland not gay?

    Replies: @mmack, @John Johnson

    Is anything in Portland not gay?

    That’s actually a really good question.

    Weirdly enough it has the most strip bars per capita.

    Some of the downtown bars are really good and not gay at all.

    Much better place to visit than Seattle which has become a total tourist trap and overfilled with condos.

  60. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn't get paid until they recovered. Maybe that's why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Anonymous, @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @jimmyriddle

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn’t get paid until they recovered. Maybe that’s why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    That is correct and I don’t think people realize how easy it is to get injured playing pick-up rugby or even two hand tackle football.

    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.

    No scholarship, no one watches and you can end up with a cast or rugby ear.

    • Replies: @Thea
    @John Johnson


    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.
     
    Chicks

    Roissy’s maxim: every male pastime has female groupies.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @John Johnson


    That is correct and I don’t think people realize how easy it is to get injured playing pick-up rugby or even two hand tackle football.
     
    For several years, I played in a pick-up two-hand touch football game on fall Saturdays with folks from my company.

    Invariably, people would need to call other friends to fill out the teams.

    At least once or twice a season some idiot would show up and demand to play tackle football.

    I would argue against it, because our health plans weren't all that great.

    The only significant injury I can remember from two-hand touch was a guy who broke his collarbone laying out for a Hail Mary pass. That was his choice to make, and even with that pain he still managed to drive himself to the ER.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  61. I’ve noticed that soccer fans in the US come in two types:

    1. People that played it as kids
    2. Liberals that want to separate themselves from the mainstream and feel like they are different for cheering a sport that they really don’t care about

    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears. I’ve tried watching the world cup but I’ll switch to sportscenter or history channel during the commercial and forget I was watching it.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @John Johnson


    I’ve tried watching the world cup but I’ll switch to sportscenter or history channel during the commercial and forget I was watching it.

     

    That's why they play the whole half with no interruptions
    , @JR Ewing
    @John Johnson


    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears.
     
    Was discussing this over the weekend with some friends.

    I've decided that I actually find soccer to be more exciting than American football. Whereas my heart rate might be high during the last two minutes of a football game, it's racing practically the whole time watching a soccer game. The action is frantic for several minutes at a time and individual scores are rare and that much more meaningful if they happen. You can't walk out of the room because a score could happen the second you leave. That's also true in American football, but generally it's more predictable.

    But even though I find it to be more exciting, that doesn't necessarily mean I enjoy it more. In fact, I'll often change the channel because the excitement and frenzy gets to be too much and commands too much attention.

    I much prefer the droll rhythm of American football with its cyclical play clock and regular commercial breaks.

    Replies: @John Johnson

  62. Even you cannot make soccer interesting.

  63. @John Johnson
    @Steve Sailer

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn’t get paid until they recovered. Maybe that’s why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    That is correct and I don't think people realize how easy it is to get injured playing pick-up rugby or even two hand tackle football.

    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.

    No scholarship, no one watches and you can end up with a cast or rugby ear.

    Replies: @Thea, @The Wild Geese Howard

    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.

    Chicks

    Roissy’s maxim: every male pastime has female groupies.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Thea


    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.
     
    Chicks

    Roissy’s maxim: every male pastime has female groupies.

    Yea not convinced. I had some friends that were wrestlers and if anything it turned the women off. They thought wrestling was gross. Wrestlers get infections and cauliflower ear and women somehow know about this stuff. Plus the uniforms are gay looking. Tennis doesn't seem to do anything for women either. I used to be near the University courts and the seats would be empty.

    If you are going to play rugby for the chicks then you are better off playing lacrosse.

    Probably the best thing a White guy can do in college if he wants connections.

  64. @John Johnson
    I've noticed that soccer fans in the US come in two types:

    1. People that played it as kids
    2. Liberals that want to separate themselves from the mainstream and feel like they are different for cheering a sport that they really don't care about

    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears. I've tried watching the world cup but I'll switch to sportscenter or history channel during the commercial and forget I was watching it.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @JR Ewing

    I’ve tried watching the world cup but I’ll switch to sportscenter or history channel during the commercial and forget I was watching it.

    That’s why they play the whole half with no interruptions

  65. Most countries that have won the World Cup have had far right dictatorships at some point in the 20th Century:

    Some of these were arguably far left … Which bodes well for the US squad

  66. Canadian ice hockey was a pro sport that encouraged fist-fighting on the ice, but the fans tend to be good-natured. (In the couple of professional wrestling shows I’ve been to, the fans were particularly warm and respectful toward each other. WWE fans seem to like other WWE fans a lot.)

    There’s a lot of debate about fighting in hockey, and the pro-fighting side’s argument is that controlling fighting by penalizing it (often with offsetting penalties) is that it encourages players to keep their sticks “down” (which is to say, not in other players’ faces, and not incessant slashing and hooking that could be very dangerous). Without fighting, they argue, the use of the stick could spiral out of control and wind up with players beating one another with sticks and possibly causing serious injuries if not death. You’d end up with more things like this happening (McSorley and Brashear were formidable fighters at the time, but it’s an example of how loose sticks could be catastrophic):

    I don’t know the full story of how the British soccer authorities cut way back on hooliganism. There were two huge tragedies in soccer stadiums in the 1980s, one the fault of hooligans, the other of authorities worried about hooliganism.

    A rather curious paradox of British culture is how “[f]ootball (soccer) is a gentleman’s game played by hooligans, and rugby is a hooligan’s game played by gentlemen.” The much more violent on-pitch game does not inspire the supporters to rioting and violence, while the more elegant game does. This is generally explained by rugby having been most popular in fee-paying boys’ schools, and soccer having been more popular in blue collar town commons.

    European pro soccer is following a somewhat similar path, but it has its roots in neighborhood sports clubs

    I think this is a function of European soccer’s top tier franchises maintaining “academies,” which select talented local kids in their early teens and train them to their full potential, and in exchange get exclusive rights to the players.

    The NFL and NBA rely upon the NCAA as their minor leagues, while a similar program to the academies would probably void NCAA eligibility for other sports. (Canadian Major Junior hockey would void NCAA eligibility for kids getting drafted at 14).

    IIRC, there is a “gentleman’s agreement” in the SEC where out of state programs give the in-stat programs first crack at four and five star recruits. If the recruits don’t want to stay in-state, the other programs can recruit them. The SEC programs flipped out when Jim Harbaugh was running “football camps” for invitee high school players in the South.

  67. Hard-core soccer fans , those who go to the stadiums, are usually right-wing. Though soccer as an organised sport is thoroughly leftist and a vehicle to spread the globalist message. According to the current narrative,you’re not allowed to have a country of your own, just a national soccer team full of exotic foreigners to cheer for. And never forget LGBTQ rights and to bend the knee and to behave like a neutered global citizen, eat the bugs, go back to your pod and die, the sooner the better, as uncle Klaus Schwab recommends.
    Stop watching sports!

  68. “American football is brutal on the field but peaceful in the stands.”

    Is it really?

    “That’s because it attracts people who can pay for a nice experience.”

    Are the nice people doing the tailgating–e.g. heavy drinking starting hrs before the game starts, wandering into the stands a few minutes late, and proceeding to start fights in the stands, before getting thrown out by security?

    That doesn’t sound like something the upper middle classes would tend to do–tailgating and then starting fights in the stands.

    Some college towns, like WVU, tend to burn furniture outside the stadium if their college team wins (or loses) important games.

    So football does tend to have some hooliganism, both at the NCAA and NFL levels.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I used to go to Giants games many years ago. The lower section was all season ticket holders who had held their accounts for years or decades. They passed their season tickets on to their kids when they died. A lot of these fans knew each other well, socialized, and some of them ended up marrying each other. We don't see reporting on that, but if 2 drunken losers with Stubhub tickets throw hands then it's a worldwide thing on Twitter. The lesson is, Twitter isn't real life.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  69. @Redneck farmer
    Also, soccer in the US is a game you can attend without worrying about bumping into Negro fans.

    Replies: @Veteran Aryan

    Also, soccer in the US is a game you can attend without worrying about bumping into Negro fans.

    A few weeks ago, the Bucs played the Seahawks in Allianz Arena, Munich, home of Bundesliga power Bayern Munich. I didn’t watch the whole thing, but from what I did see, almost every single fan in the stands was white. Not only that, but at one point they all started singing ‘Country Roads’ by John Denver. I was floored. I gotta admit that fifty thousand white people singing ‘Country Roads’ on the other side of the world moved me more than anything has in a long time. After the game, a lot of them stuck around in the stadium, and they sang it again. Who knew John Denver was so big in Germany?

    • Thanks: bomag
  70. @John Johnson
    @Steve Sailer

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn’t get paid until they recovered. Maybe that’s why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    That is correct and I don't think people realize how easy it is to get injured playing pick-up rugby or even two hand tackle football.

    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.

    No scholarship, no one watches and you can end up with a cast or rugby ear.

    Replies: @Thea, @The Wild Geese Howard

    That is correct and I don’t think people realize how easy it is to get injured playing pick-up rugby or even two hand tackle football.

    For several years, I played in a pick-up two-hand touch football game on fall Saturdays with folks from my company.

    Invariably, people would need to call other friends to fill out the teams.

    At least once or twice a season some idiot would show up and demand to play tackle football.

    I would argue against it, because our health plans weren’t all that great.

    The only significant injury I can remember from two-hand touch was a guy who broke his collarbone laying out for a Hail Mary pass. That was his choice to make, and even with that pain he still managed to drive himself to the ER.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Two handed touch American football is fun, but it's a pale imitation of what the NFL plays. Pickup soccer games are played according to the same rules as in the World Cup. Soccer enthusiasts like that.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  71. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    In Portland, following soccer is an affectation of globalist opposition to the American nation and culture. Most other places, soccer manifests itself as concentric rings of loyalty to neighborhood, city, and nation, or perhaps to religion or class.
     
    America

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/04/17/fashion/17PREMIER1/17JPPREMIER1-jumbo.jpg

    England

    https://twitter.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1594677974938570752

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Rooster16, @rienzi

    Yes, in America this is my experience as well. Our local semi-pro soccer team is essentially a sports conduit for lgbtq propaganda. Soccer is seen as “un-American” thus it’s to be celebrated by the left. Anytime something can be used to bash America and its culture; the left will promote it.

    • Agree: Edmund, Edmund, Edmund, Edmund
    • Replies: @Jack P
    @Rooster16

    That's in the US, but this world cup stopped England and other European teams from wearing rainbow arm bands. And they won't sell alcohol or allow kosher food.

    The Qatar world cup is not woke.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Wokechoke
    @Rooster16

    Qatar have given a rather good based World Cup to the world.

  72. @AnotherDad
    @J.Ross


    I wonder if soccer is gay and left, but hooligans are allowed by society to be hooligans within its milieu so they won’t be hooligans outside. Professional league sports was invented by the ur-globalists of the late Victorian age to infantilize people. Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous; watching others is neutral, and emotionally (and financially) overreacting to somebody else’s drug-based achievement is pathetic.
     
    This.

    When your football club is a bunch of your fellow factory workers from your mill town, rooting as a way of expressing your local and class interests perhaps has some meaning.

    But basically all this energy on spectator sports is not just wasted tribal energy, it is a dissipation, a destruction--now clearly intentional--of natural male energy to fight for their people and patch.

    Look at the NFL. Look how seamlessly soccer fan "hooligan" energy has been diverted into rooting for teams full of a bunch of random foreigners and Africans. "Right wing" ... LOL.

    No, sports fandom is one method globalist scum have used to divert males from what they is being done to them, their nations. "Hey look a squirrel."

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Achmed E. Newman

    Agreed. The commenter Priss Factor embedded a tweet here (don’t worry – it’s just a comment under a recent John Derbyshire post here on unz) that’s got some England vs. Wales soccer fan excitement, but notes:

    Pathetic! All this for football but nothing for millions of their girls who are groomed and raped by Pakistani men.

    It’s not any different here. Some guy will threaten to kick your ass for continuing to diss his team of negro thugs. If he loses his job due to AA and spends 3 hours a day watching commercials for cucks, well, that’s just life.

  73. @Jonathan Mason
    International soccer is mostly about patriotism. It is good for sales of flags.

    As George Orwell said: My Country Right or Left.

    The current World Cup has produced some astonishing upsets.

    Japan beat Germany! Saudi Arabia beat Argentina! And now Morocco beat Belgium. As Oprah would say: Whaaaat?

    Actually, I have an explanation.

    A few weeks ago I was talking to an Ecuadorian woman about her country's chances in the World Cup. She said that they would not do well, because the players were highly paid by their various international clubs, but were paid peanuts by the Ecuador national team.

    Actually the Ecuador team have done quite well so far, beating Qatar and then drawing with Holland who are one of the tournament favorites.

    However, the same principle can be applied to some of the other successful soccer countries. Major stars of the game who have been paid vast amounts of money for years are more concerned about performing for their club than their country.

    The World Cup for them is just like unpaid mandatory overtime.

    Meanwhile, the lesser known players of the upstart soccer nations are national heroes when they win, and with the World Cup being a kind of job fair for soccer players, success can bring a future as multi-millionaires.

    The US captain 23-year-old Tyler Adams is of course already a multi-millionaire, but has already greatly increased his future value by his performance in two drawn games against England and Wales.

    This World Cup coincides with the fact that many of the great names of soccer are aging billionaire Lion Kings of the game and ripe for the taking. Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Bale are all much closer to 40 than to 20 and have untold wealth that most people could only dream of. They are still good for winning a few penalties with tricks, but mostly their legs have gone.

    Who will win the World Cup this time? I do not have the faintest idea, but I imagine that the winning team will have a lot of luck with dubious referee decisions, and will survive at least one penalty kick shootout.

    Uruguay might be a good value for money bet as they are very good at cheating and not in the slightest bit woke.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Major stars of the game who have been paid vast amounts of money for years are more concerned about performing for their club than their country.

    The World Cup for them is just like unpaid mandatory overtime.

    It depends on the country & culture.

    I don’t care much about football, but I’ve noticed that in a homogeneous country like my homeland Croatia, major stars get some psychological patriotic kick & they fight like lions for- what? Not for money, they have enough of it already. They are fighting a war for their sacred fatherland. To be or not to be.

    That’s what most people of the egotist & post-modernist mind fail to understand.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I watched one of little Croatia's games during their 2018 run to the final. I was very impressed, especially with Croatia's team captain Modric, a wiry little guy. "I want him to be my leader."

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jonathan Mason

    , @S Johnson
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The near footballing nonentity of Greece actually won the European Championship in 2004 and Portugal (with admittedly a few all-stars, but without Ronaldo in the final) won in 2016. Small homogenous European nations can do very well with a strong defence. International tournaments with their successive stages are a lot like war so it helps to speak a common language and (as Aristotle might say) have common loves. Better-topped, more internationalist multilingual teams like Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium haven’t done so well recently.

  74. What kind of stupid question is that?

    It’s neither. It’s a sport invented by the English which became popular as a male sport all over the world, except, strangely enough, in the English-colonized U.S., where it became mostly a lesbian (and soon transgender) sport.

    Most Americans seem to prefer to watch Black people jumping on top of each other. To confuse things even more, they call this strange sport mostly played with the hands, “football”, which is the actual name of “soccer” everywhere else.

    • Agree: Inverness
    • Troll: ScarletNumber
  75. @S Johnson
    Regarding Rupert Murdoch’s impact in gentrifying the sport, in 1992 he hired Cambridge graduate Nick Hornby to start writing articles on “the beautiful game”promoting the Premier League for his upmarket Times and Sunday Times newspapers, after the publication of his soccer-based first novel Fever Pitch, presumably to drive up more middle-class (called ABC1 in British marketing circles) subscriptions to his Sky Sports. This launched a genre of quasi-intellectual soccer writing that persists in the broadsheet newspapers focusing on the ‘genius’ moves of attacking players and making a particular fetish of Arsenal FC, Hornby’s club.

    This was parallel with the Jewish comedian David Baddiel’s soccer programs on the BBC with his friend Frank Skinner (who was from a more conventional lower-middle class soccer-following background). Baddiel was at Cambridge at the same time as Hornby. Having an upper-middle class Jew (who now makes documentaries about anti-semitism) certainly didn’t hurt in convincing the media classes to take soccer more seriously. By 1997, incoming prime minister Tony Blair, who was at private school in Scotland during the 1970s, found it advantageous to claim to be a Newcastle United fan.

    Replies: @Ghastly Oik, @Steve Sailer

    • LOL: S Johnson
  76. @anon
    Soccer is self-evidently gay but thanks for the rousingly gay essay explaining otherwise

    Replies: @Muggles

    Soccer is self-evidently gay

    Gayer than American football, where the QB sticks his hands up the Center’s butt?

    Not that’s there’s anything wrong with that…

  77. @Steve Sailer
    @Brás Cubas

    It sounds fun to have teams associated with rival political tendencies. I guess Notre Dame U. Fighting Irish football was a Catholic Pride thing. Too bad Brandeis U. didn't have a top ten football team to divert Jewish energies away from rooting for Israel so passionately.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Corvinus, @Muggles

    Too bad Brandeis U. didn’t have a top ten football team to divert Jewish energies away from rooting for Israel so passionately.

    Yes, funny observation.

    Speaking of “noticing” here, has anyone done the laborious task of counting up the number of the Chosen playing in the NFL? Past or present?

    They are a minority of a minority.

    Where does the ADL stand on this exclusionary sport?

  78. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Jonathan Mason


    Major stars of the game who have been paid vast amounts of money for years are more concerned about performing for their club than their country.

    The World Cup for them is just like unpaid mandatory overtime.
     
    It depends on the country & culture.

    I don't care much about football, but I've noticed that in a homogeneous country like my homeland Croatia, major stars get some psychological patriotic kick & they fight like lions for- what? Not for money, they have enough of it already. They are fighting a war for their sacred fatherland. To be or not to be.


    That's what most people of the egotist & post-modernist mind fail to understand.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @S Johnson

    I watched one of little Croatia’s games during their 2018 run to the final. I was very impressed, especially with Croatia’s team captain Modric, a wiry little guy. “I want him to be my leader.”

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    He won the Golden Ball, the award for the best player of the tournament. He looks a little like the Begby character from Trainspotting.

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Steve Sailer

    Modric might have been a bit lucky to get off in his 2018 perjury trial which related to the laundering of 10 million euros from his transfer fee between Belgrade and Tottenham of London in 2008.

    However without a doubt he is one of the greatest players of his generation. The Real Madrid team dominated European club football for several years with Modric in midfield and team mate Cristiano Ronaldo up front scoring the goals.

    Not bad for a lad from the village of Modrici who became a refugee as a child in the Balkans War and learned his soccer in the parking lot of the hotel where his family was housed for 7 years.

    Now aged 37 the current World Cup may be his last hurrah.

  79. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @John Johnson


    That is correct and I don’t think people realize how easy it is to get injured playing pick-up rugby or even two hand tackle football.
     
    For several years, I played in a pick-up two-hand touch football game on fall Saturdays with folks from my company.

    Invariably, people would need to call other friends to fill out the teams.

    At least once or twice a season some idiot would show up and demand to play tackle football.

    I would argue against it, because our health plans weren't all that great.

    The only significant injury I can remember from two-hand touch was a guy who broke his collarbone laying out for a Hail Mary pass. That was his choice to make, and even with that pain he still managed to drive himself to the ER.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Two handed touch American football is fun, but it’s a pale imitation of what the NFL plays. Pickup soccer games are played according to the same rules as in the World Cup. Soccer enthusiasts like that.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve’s comment is the answer to the question “tell me you don’t really know anything about soccer without actually saying it”. People playing pick up soccer don’t play like the players in professional leagues. Watch a pro game and see some of the sliding tackles that great defenders like Ramos perform and tell me where you have seen a pick up player do anything close to that. Soccer tackles have the potential to be just as dangerous as football tackles if done incorrectly.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  80. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Jonathan Mason


    Major stars of the game who have been paid vast amounts of money for years are more concerned about performing for their club than their country.

    The World Cup for them is just like unpaid mandatory overtime.
     
    It depends on the country & culture.

    I don't care much about football, but I've noticed that in a homogeneous country like my homeland Croatia, major stars get some psychological patriotic kick & they fight like lions for- what? Not for money, they have enough of it already. They are fighting a war for their sacred fatherland. To be or not to be.


    That's what most people of the egotist & post-modernist mind fail to understand.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @S Johnson

    The near footballing nonentity of Greece actually won the European Championship in 2004 and Portugal (with admittedly a few all-stars, but without Ronaldo in the final) won in 2016. Small homogenous European nations can do very well with a strong defence. International tournaments with their successive stages are a lot like war so it helps to speak a common language and (as Aristotle might say) have common loves. Better-topped, more internationalist multilingual teams like Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium haven’t done so well recently.

  81. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn't get paid until they recovered. Maybe that's why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Anonymous, @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @jimmyriddle

    A common British maxim re ‘soccer’ and ‘rugger’:
    “Football is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans, and rugby union is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen.” – Arthur Tedder, chancellor of Cambridge University

    • Replies: @Right_On
    @Right_On

    Apologies. I see Alec Leamas (above) has already quoted the maxim I posted.

  82. in the US, soccer is well to the left. Steve is a good sports writer in general, but he has absolutely, positively no idea at all what he’s talking about when it comes to soccer. every 4 years when the World Cup comes around, he writes the same couple garbage takes.

    i’ve encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn’t know much about and admits he doesn’t know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.

    at the professional level, soccer is an openly leftist identity thing in the US, and Steve is totally dead wrong here.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @prime noticer

    I don’t know man, the only true soccer nut I ever knew, my brother in law (who played in the ACC and then semi-pro until he was 40) was also what they call an “extreme skier.” Pretty studly.

    , @Anonymous
    @prime noticer


    he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.
     
    I'm a millennial, and I noticed this growing up. The kids who tended to play organized soccer tended to be smaller and less athletic and coordinated. And they were often steered into soccer by parents who tended to be more liberal, overprotective, and helicopter parents than the other parents.

    I myself wasn't a big, tough kid or phenomenal athlete, for example I never played organized football but played "Fall ball" instead ( Little League baseball league in the Fall as well as Spring), because I wasn't very big and didn't have much potential for football and really liked baseball. But even I was generally bigger than the kids who were in soccer and more coordinated.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @prime noticer

    Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football

    Replace “soccer” with “football” and “football” with “Rugby” and you have a point. Everyone knows American football is a game for fat kids who aren’t fast or athletic enough to play rugby.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    , @John Johnson
    @prime noticer

    i’ve encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn’t know much about and admits he doesn’t know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football.

    I wouldn't make that assumption.

    In urban White areas the libs will keep their kids out of football even if they are talented and want to play.

    It's mostly a red/blue divide. Lib parents view soccer as more muti-cultural and without the head injuries. The CTE thing is overblown at the kid level but these are the same parents that freak out over corn syrup in ketchup.

    Lib parents also tend to be lazy and uninterested in training their kids to play baseball. The lib way is to drop the kids off at soccer and then talk over coffee and ignore the game. In some areas there is lacrosse but the attitude is the same. Drop them off and talk. They get some physical contact at least with lacrosse but soccer is really the norm.

    The fans of US soccer definitely lean left but there is a whole generation that wasn't allowed to play football or was raised by a doofus lazy lib and never learned to throw a baseball.

    , @Corvinus
    @prime noticer

    “even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America”

    And you have data and analysis to support your hypothesis?

    “yes, soccer does have a phenotype”

    Yes. Quick twitch with excellent eye feet coordination. The American college players are littered with such types.

  83. @Chrisnonymous
    @J.Ross


    Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous...
     
    Hear, hear!!

    watching others is neutral
     
    I'd say that's contextual. If you're, for example, watching a friend or relative, or watching an activity you yourself do out of technical interest, it's neutral. But just watching strangers doing an activity you yourself are too bad at to do professionally or too lazy to do as an amateur is kind of pathetic.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @RadicalCenter

    By this logic, reading Steve’s blog is pathetic. You should just write in a journal and only read your own writing.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Dave Pinsen

    (1) Please actually read and comprehend my comment. If one were only reading, that would be one thing, but if one were reading, commenting, and appreciating Steve not only as fun but as a technical model of blogging, that would be another.

    (2) Sports and blogging are not the same thing. Duh.

  84. @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I watched one of little Croatia's games during their 2018 run to the final. I was very impressed, especially with Croatia's team captain Modric, a wiry little guy. "I want him to be my leader."

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jonathan Mason

    He won the Golden Ball, the award for the best player of the tournament. He looks a little like the Begby character from Trainspotting.

  85. we just got done with spending 10 years turning the US women’s national team into an open, outright platform for leftists politics, and Steve comes in with this utter baloney.

    the men’s team wanted to REPLACE THE AMERICAN FLAG WITH THE GAY FLAG, and Steve hits ‘publish’ on this worthless article about how soccer is not really leftist in the US. taking knees for BLM and wearing rainbow patches is not leftist if you’re Steve, probably because Steve doesn’t watch any soccer, so it could be fairly said, he literally has no idea at all what he’s talking about.

    oh, and football fans fight each other in the stands and in the halls of the stadiums most games. sometimes i wonder if Steve has ever even gone to an NFL game. although riots like soccer games in europe never really happen, unless you count rushing the field after wins and destroying stuff in celebration, which is now a fine in FBS play.

  86. You think American football is peaceful in the stands, Steve? You’ve clearly never been to a game in Buffalo, Cleveland, or Philly. Absolute savages tailgating to blackout in the lot and beating each other senseless in the stadium. I enjoy taking my kids to college basketball and AHL hockey games but never in a million years would take them to an NFL game. To paraphrase Kurtz: “Exterminate all the brutes”

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @Sam Patch

    Every Detroit Lions game I've been to, probably 6, there were fights, including a racial one between the family of Dwight Smith (born in Detroit) of TB Bucs and a bunch of drunk Lions fans. The usher security were worthless. Cops had to be brought in. Though that wasn't close to the melee I watched at HS semis boys basketball between Flint Beecher and Saginaw Arthur Hill. Some people were thrown over railings at MSU arena. Game was stopped. Some players went into stands to check on family after cops settled things down. What a disaster. I always hated scouting assignments when dealing with majority 13% teams.

  87. @Right_On
    @Steve Sailer

    A common British maxim re 'soccer' and 'rugger':
    "Football is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans, and rugby union is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen." - Arthur Tedder, chancellor of Cambridge University

    Replies: @Right_On

    Apologies. I see Alec Leamas (above) has already quoted the maxim I posted.

  88. @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I watched one of little Croatia's games during their 2018 run to the final. I was very impressed, especially with Croatia's team captain Modric, a wiry little guy. "I want him to be my leader."

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Jonathan Mason

    Modric might have been a bit lucky to get off in his 2018 perjury trial which related to the laundering of 10 million euros from his transfer fee between Belgrade and Tottenham of London in 2008.

    However without a doubt he is one of the greatest players of his generation. The Real Madrid team dominated European club football for several years with Modric in midfield and team mate Cristiano Ronaldo up front scoring the goals.

    Not bad for a lad from the village of Modrici who became a refugee as a child in the Balkans War and learned his soccer in the parking lot of the hotel where his family was housed for 7 years.

    Now aged 37 the current World Cup may be his last hurrah.

  89. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "American football is brutal on the field but peaceful in the stands."

    Is it really?


    "That’s because it attracts people who can pay for a nice experience."

    Are the nice people doing the tailgating--e.g. heavy drinking starting hrs before the game starts, wandering into the stands a few minutes late, and proceeding to start fights in the stands, before getting thrown out by security?

    That doesn't sound like something the upper middle classes would tend to do--tailgating and then starting fights in the stands.

    Some college towns, like WVU, tend to burn furniture outside the stadium if their college team wins (or loses) important games.

    So football does tend to have some hooliganism, both at the NCAA and NFL levels.

    Replies: @Bragadocious

    I used to go to Giants games many years ago. The lower section was all season ticket holders who had held their accounts for years or decades. They passed their season tickets on to their kids when they died. A lot of these fans knew each other well, socialized, and some of them ended up marrying each other. We don’t see reporting on that, but if 2 drunken losers with Stubhub tickets throw hands then it’s a worldwide thing on Twitter. The lesson is, Twitter isn’t real life.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bragadocious

    The revenue heart of American sports fans are long-term season ticket holders, who are typically upper middle class.

  90. Anonymous[328] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Two handed touch American football is fun, but it's a pale imitation of what the NFL plays. Pickup soccer games are played according to the same rules as in the World Cup. Soccer enthusiasts like that.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Steve’s comment is the answer to the question “tell me you don’t really know anything about soccer without actually saying it”. People playing pick up soccer don’t play like the players in professional leagues. Watch a pro game and see some of the sliding tackles that great defenders like Ramos perform and tell me where you have seen a pick up player do anything close to that. Soccer tackles have the potential to be just as dangerous as football tackles if done incorrectly.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    People playing pick up soccer don’t play like the players in professional leagues.

     

    He said by the same rules, not using the same techniques. Read before you correct!


    We had a pickup soccer game at a family reunion, cousins and kids. We enforced the off-sides rule. If you play well enough to understand it, you play well enough to need it.

    A friend was stunned when I told her this; it had never occurred to them at her own reunion's game. But we were Northeasterners, they were deep in Midwest football territory.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  91. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn't get paid until they recovered. Maybe that's why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Anonymous, @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @jimmyriddle

    For the longest time, professional rugby players haven’t earned even 10% of what NFL players make.

    Before some major rules changes to tone down the physicality (ca.1960-2010), the NFL was just as violent a sport as rugby.

    Again, pro rugby players don’t earn anywhere near as close as NFL players. Some of the top NFL players annual salaries are ca.$50 million, or 41 million pounds. There isn’t a single pro rugby player on the planet who earns 41 million pounds per yr. Not a single one.

    Rugby’s for suckers. They must not care about the money after all.

  92. @michael droy
    Interesting piece.
    Violence has not been a thing at English football grounds for over 20 years now.
    There are several reasons.
    Starting with the all-seater rules which followed the Taylor Report on the Hillsborough disaster.
    Football is 2*45 mins with little or no overtime so fans can be in and out of the stadium within 1h45m (and back to the pub). Seats had been only for the rich and elderly. And the Terraces at each end for those standing had been open so that the more noisy and aggressive fans could congregate together.

    The start of the Premier League in 1992 also made a big difference. The league went up market, TV money, new investors, star foreign players and increasingly TV sales to other countries. There are now 3 big money events in football, the World cup, the champions League (for top teams across Europe) and the Premier League (no other national league gets close).

    There was a virtuous circle of interdependent changes - more expensive seating, better players, more competition, fantastic marketing, a richer category of customers, rapidly declining violence from fans.
    But sharing TV money across all clubs remarkably evenly made the biggest difference as even the weakest PL teams are now at top 6 level in any other league. Big clubs still get money if they play in Europe and get bigger sponsorship deals, but smaller clubs can still import top players. In Spain it used to be that the big clubs sold their own TV rights and so 2 out of 20 clubs took 85% of TV revenue. Spain has learnt its lesson and changed recently.

    Also from around late 1970s onwards the Police and clubs got their act to eliminate violence.
    Cameras and radios started to get used to identify trouble makers and guide police to them to remove them from the ground. A few Police would follow their local fans to away grounds to identify the known offenders. New court punishments were created that could ban a trouble maker from going within 10 miles of his football team, home or away, on a match day. And clubs created a membership scheme so that only members could buy tickets (and potentially lose the membership for bad behaviour).
    In the 1970s I would estimate one third of football fans at a game were away team supporters (much more feasible here in Europe than in US). Of course that leads to a lads culture, heavy drinking, and a lack of respect for local people and buildings, not just to noisy singing. In the 2020s, that is probably closer to 10% away fans (who at most grounds out-sing the home crowd as they are all in one place rather than scattered about the stadium).

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    You are making our point in spades: The irony is that soccer is such a mamby/pamby sport, the actual on field or on the pitch action, that is, is minimal in way of violence (especially when compared to other more physical sports like rugby or NFL), and yet for some strange reason, the most violence that occurs is from the fans, and not the players. Still having a hard time understanding why this would be the case, as the games themselves tend to be as boring as watching varnish paint dry. A bunch of kids running after the ball–back and forth, back and forth, 90 minutes of back and forth, etc.

    For the NFL, the violence off the field is certainly there, but is greatly outweighed by the violence on the field.

    Perhaps footie could take a lesson from across the pond, and increase the on-pitch physicality which might in turn serve to tone down some of the remaining violence from the fans.

  93. @Wokechoke
    @Steve Sailer

    Workers would be in the factory for five days. Saturday was for a game of Footie, win or lose booze afterward and go watch horses race. Sunday for Church.

    Footie as it was played up until the 1980s was a vastly more brutal sport. Defenders would slide in and hit ankles regularly. Fouling was much more like a check in Ice Hockey. Knees were blown out and concussion from headers with soggy leather Footballs was expected.

    Being a fan in the wrong pub was a good way to get beaten up or knifed.


    Promotion and relegation where a team is punished for losing is the ultimate capitalist sports idea. Your company formally lose prestige and opportunity if you fail.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Cortes

    “Footie as it was played up until the 1980s was a vastly more brutal sport.”

    Yea, perhaps for the toffs it was fairly brutal.

    “Defenders would slide in and hit ankles regularly. Fouling was much more like a check in Ice Hockey. Knees were blown out and concussion from headers with soggy leather Footballs was expected.”

    Knees blown out? Oh my f’ing gawd! Spare us, that’s all too much, really now. Still wasn’t and isn’t 10% the violence of the NFL. The blokes have no idea what violence in sport really comprises if all they’ve seen is soccer.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Spare us, that’s all too much, really now. Still wasn’t and isn’t 10% the violence of the NFL.
     
    NFLers have all that protective lingerie. Other forms of football are closer to nudity.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  94. @Bragadocious
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I used to go to Giants games many years ago. The lower section was all season ticket holders who had held their accounts for years or decades. They passed their season tickets on to their kids when they died. A lot of these fans knew each other well, socialized, and some of them ended up marrying each other. We don't see reporting on that, but if 2 drunken losers with Stubhub tickets throw hands then it's a worldwide thing on Twitter. The lesson is, Twitter isn't real life.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The revenue heart of American sports fans are long-term season ticket holders, who are typically upper middle class.

  95. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Wokechoke

    "Footie as it was played up until the 1980s was a vastly more brutal sport."

    Yea, perhaps for the toffs it was fairly brutal.

    "Defenders would slide in and hit ankles regularly. Fouling was much more like a check in Ice Hockey. Knees were blown out and concussion from headers with soggy leather Footballs was expected."

    Knees blown out? Oh my f'ing gawd! Spare us, that's all too much, really now. Still wasn't and isn't 10% the violence of the NFL. The blokes have no idea what violence in sport really comprises if all they've seen is soccer.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Spare us, that’s all too much, really now. Still wasn’t and isn’t 10% the violence of the NFL.

    NFLers have all that protective lingerie. Other forms of football are closer to nudity.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Reg Cæsar

    "NFLers have all that protective lingerie."

    Up until ca.2010's, it really didn't make much a difference, sport. NFL had more broken necks, broken bones, even a few paralyzed players from direct impact of tackles, hits, etc. from players. Soccer certainly can't lay claim to that kind of violence. At least Rugby's in the right direction toward NFL, but even it can't lay claim to the excessive amounts of violence--specifically because bulk players simply for the longest time didn't exist in rugby. There weren't very many 6'4-6'7" players weighing over 350 lbs. in the game. When you have two or three players like that tackling a WR in open field, that's spells a major disaster.

    "Other forms of football are closer to nudity."

    Spare us the Freudian slips. Talk of nudity and lingerie = someone must be looking at special kinds of videos.

    Fact: Professional rugby is more akin to how the NFL was played around 1930 or 1940. Leather helmets (sans facemask) and very little protective equipment. Many of today's rugby players would easily fit in on an NFL roster of that era. And the NFL players didn't wear much protection in the 1920's either at the start of the pro sport's league. So what? Lots of things change with more information available. It's called common sense and helping to reduce some of the major injuries.

    Also, this constant refrain of "Well, NFLers wear more protection", so what? It's called common sense. With that amount of physicality, head on violence, only a fool wouldn't insist on it. NFL is one of the few organized professional sports on earth that resembles war, warfare--UNLIKE rugby, there is far more battle type tactics, strategies, etc. that resemble warfare. Imposing of one's will upon another has been the heart of the NFL since forever. In primitive warfare of the hand to hand combat, the soldiers wore battle armor, had swords and shields. Were the Greeks, Romans, Vikings, etc. sissies for doing so? Balderdash. It's called common sense. And apparently there's little common sense on rugby.

    NFL is basically rugby, but the final draft. In other words people thinking up a coherent organized sport, the first couple drafts were rugby. Then someone with common sense said, "Know what? This game is cool, BUT...let's actually allow the center player at the scrum to throw the ball forward like a real man. Throw it forward toward a teammate, instead of just tossing/lateraling it backward. Throw it forward to make it more interesting, AND of course the opposing side can tackle said receiver as hard as they can in open field."

    And with that slight but major adjustment, the modern beginnings of the NFL was born. Anyone watching a rugby match today can clearly see that the NFL evolved from that sport, but that the one major difference---throwing a forward pass--changed the entire sport's direction. More violence, and more opportunities for amazing scoring plays.

    No, NFL is way more violent than modern rugby. Rugby is violent in a 1940's kind of way. it was in the right direction.

    I hate to state it, but perhaps if rugby was less white of a sport, meaning, had more blacks in their ranks compared with the NFL, it would be more violent. It's violent on the level of a 1940's style NFL game. You can see some kinds of hits, but the players aren't very bulky, aren't very powerful, etc.

    PS: It's very telling that the NFL is now playing a few games in London to expand the market. For whatever the reason, the Brits seem okay with it. It won't ever match soccer's appeal in the UK, obviously, but apparently there's a market for the NFL there--can't say the same thing for UK professional rugby games played in the US, because there simply isn't the same order of demand for the US to want to watch a sport that resembles the NFL, played around 1930.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  96. @anonymous
    OT

    We live in truly extraordinary times. Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes. Fuentes is an alt-right social media star who mainly appeals to other college aged white Christians.

    Here is a sample of his most notable work.

    Nick Fuentes warns that if "the Jews" don't stop oppressing people like him, it will soon lead to violence: "When it comes to the Jews, every society where shit has gone down with these people, it always goes from zero to sixty."

    https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888
     
    Trump is now in disavow mode but it might be too late. The worst fear of Jews was even a leader with Jewish grandchildren and love for Israel could not be trusted if he awakened white populism. The movement was always to going to energize and gravitate to a guy like Fuentes. Trump can either drop out of the 2024 race or stick to the new path of calling for limits on Jewish power and telling Israel it needs to fight Iran on its own.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Ralph L, @Ron Mexico, @Swish, @Nicholas Stix

    This is all staged. Fuentes says he is supporting DeSantis.

  97. @Thea
    @John Johnson


    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.
     
    Chicks

    Roissy’s maxim: every male pastime has female groupies.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    We had intramural rugby at my college and I thought it was nuts that anyone would play it.

    Chicks

    Roissy’s maxim: every male pastime has female groupies.

    Yea not convinced. I had some friends that were wrestlers and if anything it turned the women off. They thought wrestling was gross. Wrestlers get infections and cauliflower ear and women somehow know about this stuff. Plus the uniforms are gay looking. Tennis doesn’t seem to do anything for women either. I used to be near the University courts and the seats would be empty.

    If you are going to play rugby for the chicks then you are better off playing lacrosse.

    Probably the best thing a White guy can do in college if he wants connections.

  98. @Sam Patch
    You think American football is peaceful in the stands, Steve? You've clearly never been to a game in Buffalo, Cleveland, or Philly. Absolute savages tailgating to blackout in the lot and beating each other senseless in the stadium. I enjoy taking my kids to college basketball and AHL hockey games but never in a million years would take them to an NFL game. To paraphrase Kurtz: "Exterminate all the brutes"

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

    Every Detroit Lions game I’ve been to, probably 6, there were fights, including a racial one between the family of Dwight Smith (born in Detroit) of TB Bucs and a bunch of drunk Lions fans. The usher security were worthless. Cops had to be brought in. Though that wasn’t close to the melee I watched at HS semis boys basketball between Flint Beecher and Saginaw Arthur Hill. Some people were thrown over railings at MSU arena. Game was stopped. Some players went into stands to check on family after cops settled things down. What a disaster. I always hated scouting assignments when dealing with majority 13% teams.

  99. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    If working men played rugby and got injured, they didn't get paid until they recovered. Maybe that's why they preferred the less violent version of football.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Anonymous, @John Johnson, @Right_On, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @jimmyriddle

    Nope. Rugby is dominant in the coalfieds of South Wales.

    The Rugby vs Football split is quite complicated. Rugby dominates in a lot of more rural (or at least no big cities) areas – SW England, Scotland (outside the Central Belt). That goes for all classes.

    Then there is Rugby League, the professional code (Rugby Union was amateur until the ’90s). That dominates the mid-sized towns along the M62 from Liverpool to Hull. A good example is Wigan, which was a centre of coal mining and steel production – the rugby league side often wins trophies, whilst the soccer team is usually found struggling in the lower divisions, and has a much smaller fan base. Rugby league was always quintessentially working class.

    In the South East of England and in the big cities, Rugby vs Football is a class divide.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @jimmyriddle

    It's interesting how soccer is not very popular outside of England in the major English speaking former colonies. In the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, soccer is a secondary minor sport to one or more main sports. In Ireland, soccer is not very popular and they prefer hurling and Irish football. When I spoke to Irish locals when visiting, they tended to look down on soccer and cricket as English games, though they seemed to have respect for rugby.

    Even in India, they're crazy for cricket but don't seem that into soccer.

    For whatever reason, outside of England, soccer became really big in Continental Europe and the non-Anglosphere.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  100. @prime noticer
    in the US, soccer is well to the left. Steve is a good sports writer in general, but he has absolutely, positively no idea at all what he's talking about when it comes to soccer. every 4 years when the World Cup comes around, he writes the same couple garbage takes.

    i've encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn't know much about and admits he doesn't know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here - Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.

    at the professional level, soccer is an openly leftist identity thing in the US, and Steve is totally dead wrong here.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Johnson, @Corvinus

    I don’t know man, the only true soccer nut I ever knew, my brother in law (who played in the ACC and then semi-pro until he was 40) was also what they call an “extreme skier.” Pretty studly.

  101. @Wokechoke
    @Steve Sailer

    Workers would be in the factory for five days. Saturday was for a game of Footie, win or lose booze afterward and go watch horses race. Sunday for Church.

    Footie as it was played up until the 1980s was a vastly more brutal sport. Defenders would slide in and hit ankles regularly. Fouling was much more like a check in Ice Hockey. Knees were blown out and concussion from headers with soggy leather Footballs was expected.

    Being a fan in the wrong pub was a good way to get beaten up or knifed.


    Promotion and relegation where a team is punished for losing is the ultimate capitalist sports idea. Your company formally lose prestige and opportunity if you fail.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Cortes

    Since about 1985 there’s been a drive towards takeovers of Europe’s clubs by corporations. At the same time, corporate infiltration into UEFA and FIFA has magnified the revenue of professional football from TV and commercial sponsorship. What’s interesting is how the tendency towards conversion of sporting corporations into quasi religious organisations has been promoted. Statues are now dotted around stadiums. Votive bricks are available as gifts (Gee, thanks, Andy [my older brother] for that 50th birthday present), fans are milked for fleeting mentions on big screens (thanks again, Andy). People who haven’t two halfpennies to rub together find the money to bedeck themselves and the whole family out with “kit” which is vastly overpriced. And then they wear the kit every day. 50 or more years ago those same people would’ve been regular attenders at the Church of their choice. It’s depressing.

    Rant endeth.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    @Cortes

    I ought to have added that once upon a time I did some work on behalf of a guy who had a senior position in the FIFA hierarchy. A sophisticated, clever man whose bread and butter came from providing legal services to some of the most prosperous farmers in the UK. These days his advancement within FIFA would be impossible. The club he owned was, and remains, tiny. Even when doing excellent work for the good of the sport he was derided in the media.

  102. @John Johnson
    I've noticed that soccer fans in the US come in two types:

    1. People that played it as kids
    2. Liberals that want to separate themselves from the mainstream and feel like they are different for cheering a sport that they really don't care about

    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears. I've tried watching the world cup but I'll switch to sportscenter or history channel during the commercial and forget I was watching it.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @JR Ewing

    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears.

    Was discussing this over the weekend with some friends.

    I’ve decided that I actually find soccer to be more exciting than American football. Whereas my heart rate might be high during the last two minutes of a football game, it’s racing practically the whole time watching a soccer game. The action is frantic for several minutes at a time and individual scores are rare and that much more meaningful if they happen. You can’t walk out of the room because a score could happen the second you leave. That’s also true in American football, but generally it’s more predictable.

    But even though I find it to be more exciting, that doesn’t necessarily mean I enjoy it more. In fact, I’ll often change the channel because the excitement and frenzy gets to be too much and commands too much attention.

    I much prefer the droll rhythm of American football with its cyclical play clock and regular commercial breaks.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @JR Ewing


    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears.
     
    Was discussing this over the weekend with some friends.

    I’ve decided that I actually find soccer to be more exciting than American football. Whereas my heart rate might be high during the last two minutes of a football game, it’s racing practically the whole time watching a soccer game.

    Well to each their own. I like how in football you can study the lines of each side and look for mistakes and opportunities. There is really a deep game of strategy going on even if it looks like brutes just bashing into each other. That is what a lot of Europeans don't realize. But I'm also not glued to every play and rarely watch an entire game. I usually watch one game and if it is too lopsided I'll change the channel. So definitely not a mega fan like my neighbor who watches both NFL and college.

    I can enjoy kids playing soccer but the adults take too much time to get the ball anywhere. The field is too big.

    I get the national aspect but then half the players now appear African. It's becoming like the 100 meter dash where everyone cheers their imported African.

    Soccer to me is what the third world plays because they don't have hockey. I really don't see how someone can watch hockey live and then go back to soccer. But then I have had Europeans tell me that they don't understand how anyone can watch baseball or football.

  103. @Known Fact
    @J.Ross


    A lot of science fiction products from the late sixties to the mid-seventies come from hand-wringing over football violence.
     
    In the sometimes insightful Rollerball (1975) this bizarre sport is used by the corporate overlords to control and distract the masses -- as well as to push the team concept for society and banish any shred of individuality. So they are quite distressed when star player James Caan becomes a heroic, transcendant figure bigger than the sport itself.

    "Game? It was never meant to be a game," Caan is ominously warned at one point

    Replies: @Rolf

    Pretty good film. I remember seeing it in the theatre as a 15 year old. The future in which Rollerball was to have taken place was….. 2018.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Rolf

    Well 2018 was certainly better than the last few years!

    I saw it with friends on opening night when I was 20, and more deeply stoned than ever, before or since. It hilariously conforms to every cliche of its time and genre but with some dash of style and nuggets of thought, so it never fails to entertain on both levels. Also probably the first time I'd ever heard any Shostakovich.

    https://youtu.be/Tcb6R32fivw

  104. @Cortes
    @Wokechoke

    Since about 1985 there’s been a drive towards takeovers of Europe’s clubs by corporations. At the same time, corporate infiltration into UEFA and FIFA has magnified the revenue of professional football from TV and commercial sponsorship. What’s interesting is how the tendency towards conversion of sporting corporations into quasi religious organisations has been promoted. Statues are now dotted around stadiums. Votive bricks are available as gifts (Gee, thanks, Andy [my older brother] for that 50th birthday present), fans are milked for fleeting mentions on big screens (thanks again, Andy). People who haven’t two halfpennies to rub together find the money to bedeck themselves and the whole family out with “kit” which is vastly overpriced. And then they wear the kit every day. 50 or more years ago those same people would’ve been regular attenders at the Church of their choice. It’s depressing.

    Rant endeth.

    Replies: @Cortes

    I ought to have added that once upon a time I did some work on behalf of a guy who had a senior position in the FIFA hierarchy. A sophisticated, clever man whose bread and butter came from providing legal services to some of the most prosperous farmers in the UK. These days his advancement within FIFA would be impossible. The club he owned was, and remains, tiny. Even when doing excellent work for the good of the sport he was derided in the media.

  105. @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve’s comment is the answer to the question “tell me you don’t really know anything about soccer without actually saying it”. People playing pick up soccer don’t play like the players in professional leagues. Watch a pro game and see some of the sliding tackles that great defenders like Ramos perform and tell me where you have seen a pick up player do anything close to that. Soccer tackles have the potential to be just as dangerous as football tackles if done incorrectly.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    People playing pick up soccer don’t play like the players in professional leagues.

    He said by the same rules, not using the same techniques. Read before you correct!

    We had a pickup soccer game at a family reunion, cousins and kids. We enforced the off-sides rule. If you play well enough to understand it, you play well enough to need it.

    A friend was stunned when I told her this; it had never occurred to them at her own reunion’s game. But we were Northeasterners, they were deep in Midwest football territory.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Wrong, No one playing pick up games follows the exact rules of the professional sport that they are imitating. When was the last time you saw a pick up basketball game begin with a jump ball, utilize a shot clock or have a player foul out. I think all pick up players of any sport require is that their game be some reasonable facsimile of the organized sport.

  106. @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    “In the 1970s, fights were pretty common at baseball stadiums“

    And you know this how? Anecdotal? Specific sources?

    Replies: @JimDandy, @Steve Sailer

    A Bill James essay.

    • Thanks: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    I hate to agree with that guy over you, Steve, but in 35 years of going to Giants games at Candlestick, the only fights I ever saw were during Dodger games, and even then only in the left field bleachers.

    , @William Badwhite
    @Steve Sailer

    In a magnanimous early Christmas present, Steve finally notices Corvirus! Congrats Corky, now you can...go away

    http://mudonmytiara.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Im-not-going-to-be-ignored.gif

    , @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    He writes a number of essays. Is it from a column or book? Which one? Is there a link you can provide to us readers?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  107. @S Johnson
    Regarding Rupert Murdoch’s impact in gentrifying the sport, in 1992 he hired Cambridge graduate Nick Hornby to start writing articles on “the beautiful game”promoting the Premier League for his upmarket Times and Sunday Times newspapers, after the publication of his soccer-based first novel Fever Pitch, presumably to drive up more middle-class (called ABC1 in British marketing circles) subscriptions to his Sky Sports. This launched a genre of quasi-intellectual soccer writing that persists in the broadsheet newspapers focusing on the ‘genius’ moves of attacking players and making a particular fetish of Arsenal FC, Hornby’s club.

    This was parallel with the Jewish comedian David Baddiel’s soccer programs on the BBC with his friend Frank Skinner (who was from a more conventional lower-middle class soccer-following background). Baddiel was at Cambridge at the same time as Hornby. Having an upper-middle class Jew (who now makes documentaries about anti-semitism) certainly didn’t hurt in convincing the media classes to take soccer more seriously. By 1997, incoming prime minister Tony Blair, who was at private school in Scotland during the 1970s, found it advantageous to claim to be a Newcastle United fan.

    Replies: @Ghastly Oik, @Steve Sailer

    I’ve read several novels by Nick Hornby and several more by his brother in Law Robert Harris. They are both pretty decent.

    • Replies: @S Johnson
    @Steve Sailer

    Harris and Hornby are both Cambridge men of mild Toryish disposition who were adjacent to the New Labour project without quite becoming partisans (e.g., Hornby’s screenplay for An Education is one of the few British movies to glance sceptically at post-1945 immigration). Hornby’s dad was the head of the company that built the London-to-Paris Eurostar railway while Harris was a grammar-school boy from modester circumstances, like many postwar dramatic actors.

  108. Anonymous[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @jimmyriddle
    @Steve Sailer

    Nope. Rugby is dominant in the coalfieds of South Wales.

    The Rugby vs Football split is quite complicated. Rugby dominates in a lot of more rural (or at least no big cities) areas - SW England, Scotland (outside the Central Belt). That goes for all classes.

    Then there is Rugby League, the professional code (Rugby Union was amateur until the '90s). That dominates the mid-sized towns along the M62 from Liverpool to Hull. A good example is Wigan, which was a centre of coal mining and steel production - the rugby league side often wins trophies, whilst the soccer team is usually found struggling in the lower divisions, and has a much smaller fan base. Rugby league was always quintessentially working class.

    In the South East of England and in the big cities, Rugby vs Football is a class divide.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    It’s interesting how soccer is not very popular outside of England in the major English speaking former colonies. In the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, soccer is a secondary minor sport to one or more main sports. In Ireland, soccer is not very popular and they prefer hurling and Irish football. When I spoke to Irish locals when visiting, they tended to look down on soccer and cricket as English games, though they seemed to have respect for rugby.

    Even in India, they’re crazy for cricket but don’t seem that into soccer.

    For whatever reason, outside of England, soccer became really big in Continental Europe and the non-Anglosphere.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    The Anglo world had railways first, so they had visiting teams first. That required national conventions to organize national rules. The Anglo countries made up a ton of rules in the 1860-1890 era, including for their own local variant games. So, when other countries like Argentina got railroads making national level sports possible, rather than go thru all the work of standardizing their own, they just borrowed Anglo rules.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Wokechoke

  109. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @prime noticer
    in the US, soccer is well to the left. Steve is a good sports writer in general, but he has absolutely, positively no idea at all what he's talking about when it comes to soccer. every 4 years when the World Cup comes around, he writes the same couple garbage takes.

    i've encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn't know much about and admits he doesn't know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here - Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.

    at the professional level, soccer is an openly leftist identity thing in the US, and Steve is totally dead wrong here.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Johnson, @Corvinus

    he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.

    I’m a millennial, and I noticed this growing up. The kids who tended to play organized soccer tended to be smaller and less athletic and coordinated. And they were often steered into soccer by parents who tended to be more liberal, overprotective, and helicopter parents than the other parents.

    I myself wasn’t a big, tough kid or phenomenal athlete, for example I never played organized football but played “Fall ball” instead ( Little League baseball league in the Fall as well as Spring), because I wasn’t very big and didn’t have much potential for football and really liked baseball. But even I was generally bigger than the kids who were in soccer and more coordinated.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Anonymous


    The kids who tended to play organized soccer tended to be smaller and less athletic and coordinated. And they were often steered into soccer by parents who tended to be more liberal, overprotective, and helicopter parents than the other parents.
     
    This is an accurate description of why the US has not been historically competitive on the international level beyond 1-2 individual players.

    Our potential soccer stars tend to play football and basketball instead.

    Granted, he'd be doing a lot more bench press if he were an American, but this guy (Didier Drogba) is from the Ivory Coast and used to play for Chelsea and several other European clubs several years ago. I always found it very easy to picture him playing running back in the NFL.

    https://s.ndtvimg.com/images/content/2014/dec/806/didier-drogba-chelsea-780.jpg
  110. @prime noticer
    in the US, soccer is well to the left. Steve is a good sports writer in general, but he has absolutely, positively no idea at all what he's talking about when it comes to soccer. every 4 years when the World Cup comes around, he writes the same couple garbage takes.

    i've encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn't know much about and admits he doesn't know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here - Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.

    at the professional level, soccer is an openly leftist identity thing in the US, and Steve is totally dead wrong here.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Johnson, @Corvinus

    Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football

    Replace “soccer” with “football” and “football” with “Rugby” and you have a point. Everyone knows American football is a game for fat kids who aren’t fast or athletic enough to play rugby.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Replace “soccer” with “football” and “football” with “Rugby” and you have a point. Everyone knows American football is a game for fat kids who aren’t fast or athletic enough to play rugby

    The US doesn't have a rugby system for kids and thank God because we don't need our White men getting cauliflower ear and losing their teeth.

    Football is improved rugby. Americans turned it into a chess match with better throwing plays.

    Sometimes a sport needs to change for the better. A good sport doesn't disfigure men before they are 21.

  111. The most “homophobic” nations in the world- Russia, Saudia Arabia, North Korea, Poland – are all soccer crazed. No sport comes close, not even hockey in Russia.

    Just for fun here is some multicultural soccer violence at a recent Russian Cup match. Good thing Russia keeps importing Brazilians and Columbians –

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Hockey is king among red-blooded Russians.

  112. @Anonymous
    @jimmyriddle

    It's interesting how soccer is not very popular outside of England in the major English speaking former colonies. In the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, soccer is a secondary minor sport to one or more main sports. In Ireland, soccer is not very popular and they prefer hurling and Irish football. When I spoke to Irish locals when visiting, they tended to look down on soccer and cricket as English games, though they seemed to have respect for rugby.

    Even in India, they're crazy for cricket but don't seem that into soccer.

    For whatever reason, outside of England, soccer became really big in Continental Europe and the non-Anglosphere.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The Anglo world had railways first, so they had visiting teams first. That required national conventions to organize national rules. The Anglo countries made up a ton of rules in the 1860-1890 era, including for their own local variant games. So, when other countries like Argentina got railroads making national level sports possible, rather than go thru all the work of standardizing their own, they just borrowed Anglo rules.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Steve Sailer

    If you look at the early growth of soccer in places like Austria-Hungary, Germany and Russia my impression was that it was originally driven by aspirational Anglophilia - the British Empire was the cultural behemoth in 1900 the way the US is today. British expats created a lot of early continental clubs, like First Vienna FC or Genoa and the continentals wanted to be cool and modern like the Brits.

    The British colonies were more likely to resent the British or just find them ridiculous than to try to copy them.

    , @Wokechoke
    @Steve Sailer

    It was already a working class game.

    The US team that finished third in the brutal 1930 world cup were all guys who worked manual laboring jobs. a handful of British expats among them.

    Billy Gonsalves, called the game against Argentina “murder” and said, “They crippled Douglas, deliberately, they broke Tracey’s leg, they hit Auld.”

    The injury to Auld — Cummings reports that he “had his lip ripped wide open” after the third Argentine goal — led to one of the great myths of World Cup history. When the team’s trainer, Jock Coll, entered the field to attend to Auld, legend has it that a bottle of chloroform in his medicine bag broke open, so incapacitating Coll that he had to be assisted off of the field. According to Cummings’ official report, “one of the players from across the La Platte River had knocked the smelling salts out of Trainer Coll’s hand and into Andy’s eyes, temporarily blinding one of the outstanding ‘little stars’ of the World’s Series.”

    https://phillysoccerpage.net/2014/03/19/the-us-at-the-1930-world-cup/

  113. @Steve Sailer
    @Corvinus

    A Bill James essay.

    Replies: @anonymous, @William Badwhite, @Corvinus

    I hate to agree with that guy over you, Steve, but in 35 years of going to Giants games at Candlestick, the only fights I ever saw were during Dodger games, and even then only in the left field bleachers.

  114. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    People playing pick up soccer don’t play like the players in professional leagues.

     

    He said by the same rules, not using the same techniques. Read before you correct!


    We had a pickup soccer game at a family reunion, cousins and kids. We enforced the off-sides rule. If you play well enough to understand it, you play well enough to need it.

    A friend was stunned when I told her this; it had never occurred to them at her own reunion's game. But we were Northeasterners, they were deep in Midwest football territory.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Wrong, No one playing pick up games follows the exact rules of the professional sport that they are imitating. When was the last time you saw a pick up basketball game begin with a jump ball, utilize a shot clock or have a player foul out. I think all pick up players of any sport require is that their game be some reasonable facsimile of the organized sport.

  115. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    The Anglo world had railways first, so they had visiting teams first. That required national conventions to organize national rules. The Anglo countries made up a ton of rules in the 1860-1890 era, including for their own local variant games. So, when other countries like Argentina got railroads making national level sports possible, rather than go thru all the work of standardizing their own, they just borrowed Anglo rules.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Wokechoke

    If you look at the early growth of soccer in places like Austria-Hungary, Germany and Russia my impression was that it was originally driven by aspirational Anglophilia – the British Empire was the cultural behemoth in 1900 the way the US is today. British expats created a lot of early continental clubs, like First Vienna FC or Genoa and the continentals wanted to be cool and modern like the Brits.

    The British colonies were more likely to resent the British or just find them ridiculous than to try to copy them.

  116. @Achmed E. Newman

    Most countries that have won the World Cup have had far right dictatorships at some point in the 20th Century: Brazil 5, Germany 4, Italy 4, Argentina 2, France 2, Uruguay 2, and Spain 1.
     
    Yeah, and most Latin American countries - where soccer is big everywhere - flip from Commie to Right-wing and back regularly. Argentina is an example. 3 out of your 4 Euro countries came damned close to becoming Communist in the 20th Century. I leave that trivial exercise for the reader. (It was the hard-right that prevented Communism in at least 2 of them.)

    Hence, the term Communist Kickball stands.

    Replies: @John Pepple

    By parallel reasoning, Mexican food is commie food.

  117. For whatever it’s worth, I got involved in soccer in the 1970s, and it was very right-wing at that time. I was a leftist, and nearly everyone I encountered in the sport was to the right of me. I both went to professional games and played on an intramural team at my university, and I noticed that guys in fraternities were into soccer in both realms. Also, guys in ROTC. And most of the people attending games were either in the middle or on the right. Leftists like me were scarce.

    I tried to get through to my fellow leftists that they were failing a test of being open-minded, that they were being outdone in open-mindedness by people on the right, but they weren’t interested. They just couldn’t be bothered. They had their favorite sports — generally baseball — and that was that. Here is a quote from Katha Pollitt in The Nation:

    I don’t like baseball. I have long known that this makes me unable to talk to most men (and even some women) of my own professional-chattering-intellectual-espresso-drinking class, for whom baseball is the divine pastime. [12/8/1997, p. 11]

    So, if being a soccer fan is now a leftist thing, that is quite different from what it was throughout most of my life.

    Let me add that this was the first time I had seen leftist hypocrisy. They said they were open-minded, but when a chance to prove it came along, they failed miserably. The latest revelations about SBF and Effective Altruism are just one more example of this hypocrisy.

  118. Well, now that NFL and NBA are practically taken over by blacks, MLB by Hispanics, and NHL by Canadians and Russians, what are white boys supposed to play anymore in America besides soccer? Pickleball? Crew? Or maybe more like X Games sports.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @anon

    The majority of major league baseball players are non-hispanic white. About 1/4 of all NFL players are non-hispanic white. About 1/4 of NHL players are American born.

    No clue why this would prevent youths from playing football and hockey in high school.

    What is pickle ball?

  119. @Dave Pinsen
    @Chrisnonymous

    By this logic, reading Steve’s blog is pathetic. You should just write in a journal and only read your own writing.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    (1) Please actually read and comprehend my comment. If one were only reading, that would be one thing, but if one were reading, commenting, and appreciating Steve not only as fun but as a technical model of blogging, that would be another.

    (2) Sports and blogging are not the same thing. Duh.

  120. @Rolf
    @Known Fact

    Pretty good film. I remember seeing it in the theatre as a 15 year old. The future in which Rollerball was to have taken place was….. 2018.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Well 2018 was certainly better than the last few years!

    I saw it with friends on opening night when I was 20, and more deeply stoned than ever, before or since. It hilariously conforms to every cliche of its time and genre but with some dash of style and nuggets of thought, so it never fails to entertain on both levels. Also probably the first time I’d ever heard any Shostakovich.

  121. @prime noticer
    in the US, soccer is well to the left. Steve is a good sports writer in general, but he has absolutely, positively no idea at all what he's talking about when it comes to soccer. every 4 years when the World Cup comes around, he writes the same couple garbage takes.

    i've encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn't know much about and admits he doesn't know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here - Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.

    at the professional level, soccer is an openly leftist identity thing in the US, and Steve is totally dead wrong here.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Johnson, @Corvinus

    i’ve encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn’t know much about and admits he doesn’t know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football.

    I wouldn’t make that assumption.

    In urban White areas the libs will keep their kids out of football even if they are talented and want to play.

    It’s mostly a red/blue divide. Lib parents view soccer as more muti-cultural and without the head injuries. The CTE thing is overblown at the kid level but these are the same parents that freak out over corn syrup in ketchup.

    Lib parents also tend to be lazy and uninterested in training their kids to play baseball. The lib way is to drop the kids off at soccer and then talk over coffee and ignore the game. In some areas there is lacrosse but the attitude is the same. Drop them off and talk. They get some physical contact at least with lacrosse but soccer is really the norm.

    The fans of US soccer definitely lean left but there is a whole generation that wasn’t allowed to play football or was raised by a doofus lazy lib and never learned to throw a baseball.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
  122. @Peter Akuleyev
    @prime noticer

    Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football

    Replace “soccer” with “football” and “football” with “Rugby” and you have a point. Everyone knows American football is a game for fat kids who aren’t fast or athletic enough to play rugby.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Replace “soccer” with “football” and “football” with “Rugby” and you have a point. Everyone knows American football is a game for fat kids who aren’t fast or athletic enough to play rugby

    The US doesn’t have a rugby system for kids and thank God because we don’t need our White men getting cauliflower ear and losing their teeth.

    Football is improved rugby. Americans turned it into a chess match with better throwing plays.

    Sometimes a sport needs to change for the better. A good sport doesn’t disfigure men before they are 21.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  123. @Chrisnonymous
    @J.Ross


    Actually doing athletic things with your own body is virtuous...
     
    Hear, hear!!

    watching others is neutral
     
    I'd say that's contextual. If you're, for example, watching a friend or relative, or watching an activity you yourself do out of technical interest, it's neutral. But just watching strangers doing an activity you yourself are too bad at to do professionally or too lazy to do as an amateur is kind of pathetic.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @RadicalCenter

    Appreciate the sentiment up to a point, but maybe rein it in.

    For example, it shouldn’t be considered pathetic to attend a symphony concert when we lack the ability and/or training to play such beautiful complex music.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @RadicalCenter

    Of course. But music and sportsball are not the same thing. Unless, as I said, you are watching sportsball because a relative is playing, etc, the appeal of it is just that my "tribe" wins. Music has the inherent appeal of being music. Listening is pleasurable. If you don't know the players or experience the game yourself, there is no pleasure in watching sports separate from the tribal-winning aspect. It's not the same as music or a movie or the news.

    Replies: @Veteran Aryan

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @RadicalCenter

    Riddle me this... what's the difference between watching sports and watching pornography? In both cases, you living vicariously through the people you are watching. You can "appreciate" sports as masterful performance, but the same could be said of porn. They are very parallel. The players/actors tend to have physical characteristics desired by the watchers and abilities the watchers would like to have. The dopamine hit from pornography comes from sexual arousal. Where does the dopamine hit from sportsball come from? "My team won!"

  124. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Ralph L

    The worst example of bad behavior from American football fans I can think of is when an Alabama fan poisoned Auburn’s famous tree. And as far as pro football goes, Philadelphia Eagles’ fans seem to be in a class by themselves, famous for booing Santa Claus and having a jail at the stadium to process miscreants. I haven’t heard much about them assaulting fans of rival teams though.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    Philadelphia Eagles’ fans…famous for booing Santa Claus

    They’re a pretty low-rent set of fans but I have to give them a pass for booing “Santa”. He wasn’t actually a real Santa, he was just some random fan dressed partly as Santa Claus. They’d hired a Santa who didn’t show, so looked around for Plan B and found this poor sap. He looked like what he was – a skinny random fan dressed partly as Santa.

    For similarly low-class, I’ll go with the mainly federal trough-feeding Washington National’s fans for 1) loudly booing Trump and 2) loudly cheering Anthony “Mengele” Fauci.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @William Badwhite

    They should boo both of the grifters.

  125. @Peter Akuleyev
    The most “homophobic” nations in the world- Russia, Saudia Arabia, North Korea, Poland - are all soccer crazed. No sport comes close, not even hockey in Russia.

    Just for fun here is some multicultural soccer violence at a recent Russian Cup match. Good thing Russia keeps importing Brazilians and Columbians - https://youtu.be/PTL9k1CAbGQ

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Hockey is king among red-blooded Russians.

  126. @Steve Sailer
    @Corvinus

    A Bill James essay.

    Replies: @anonymous, @William Badwhite, @Corvinus

    In a magnanimous early Christmas present, Steve finally notices Corvirus! Congrats Corky, now you can…go away

  127. @William Badwhite
    @Hapalong Cassidy


    Philadelphia Eagles’ fans...famous for booing Santa Claus
     
    They're a pretty low-rent set of fans but I have to give them a pass for booing "Santa". He wasn't actually a real Santa, he was just some random fan dressed partly as Santa Claus. They'd hired a Santa who didn't show, so looked around for Plan B and found this poor sap. He looked like what he was - a skinny random fan dressed partly as Santa.

    For similarly low-class, I'll go with the mainly federal trough-feeding Washington National's fans for 1) loudly booing Trump and 2) loudly cheering Anthony "Mengele" Fauci.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    They should boo both of the grifters.

  128. @JR Ewing
    @John Johnson


    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears.
     
    Was discussing this over the weekend with some friends.

    I've decided that I actually find soccer to be more exciting than American football. Whereas my heart rate might be high during the last two minutes of a football game, it's racing practically the whole time watching a soccer game. The action is frantic for several minutes at a time and individual scores are rare and that much more meaningful if they happen. You can't walk out of the room because a score could happen the second you leave. That's also true in American football, but generally it's more predictable.

    But even though I find it to be more exciting, that doesn't necessarily mean I enjoy it more. In fact, I'll often change the channel because the excitement and frenzy gets to be too much and commands too much attention.

    I much prefer the droll rhythm of American football with its cyclical play clock and regular commercial breaks.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    I honestly wish I liked soccer but it really bores me to tears.

    Was discussing this over the weekend with some friends.

    I’ve decided that I actually find soccer to be more exciting than American football. Whereas my heart rate might be high during the last two minutes of a football game, it’s racing practically the whole time watching a soccer game.

    Well to each their own. I like how in football you can study the lines of each side and look for mistakes and opportunities. There is really a deep game of strategy going on even if it looks like brutes just bashing into each other. That is what a lot of Europeans don’t realize. But I’m also not glued to every play and rarely watch an entire game. I usually watch one game and if it is too lopsided I’ll change the channel. So definitely not a mega fan like my neighbor who watches both NFL and college.

    I can enjoy kids playing soccer but the adults take too much time to get the ball anywhere. The field is too big.

    I get the national aspect but then half the players now appear African. It’s becoming like the 100 meter dash where everyone cheers their imported African.

    Soccer to me is what the third world plays because they don’t have hockey. I really don’t see how someone can watch hockey live and then go back to soccer. But then I have had Europeans tell me that they don’t understand how anyone can watch baseball or football.

  129. Professional soccer more or less operates under unfettered capitalism, whereas the major American sports are downright socialist (salary caps, draft picks awarded to lousy teams).

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Carbon blob

    Professional soccer more or less operates under unfettered capitalism, whereas the major American sports are downright socialist (salary caps, draft picks awarded to lousy teams).

    Salary and team caps are now socialism? Even when the players still make millions? Those poor souls have to live out socialist oppression in their Malibu mansions.

    We have unfettered capitalism in the MLB and it has ruined the game. Small cap teams can have their best players picked by big cap teams and the fans for some reason put up with it. The luxury tax is a joke and goes towards farming Dominican Republic players for the big cap teams.

    Unfettered capitalism isn't everything. Hatii has unfettered capitalism and half the country is controlled by a free market loving gangster named barbecue who burns his victims.

    Oh but that's different the libertarians tell us. Free market magic is always the answer until you point out where it doesn't work. But that's different.

    It's just another religion.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Corvinus

  130. @Steve Sailer
    @S Johnson

    I've read several novels by Nick Hornby and several more by his brother in Law Robert Harris. They are both pretty decent.

    Replies: @S Johnson

    Harris and Hornby are both Cambridge men of mild Toryish disposition who were adjacent to the New Labour project without quite becoming partisans (e.g., Hornby’s screenplay for An Education is one of the few British movies to glance sceptically at post-1945 immigration). Hornby’s dad was the head of the company that built the London-to-Paris Eurostar railway while Harris was a grammar-school boy from modester circumstances, like many postwar dramatic actors.

  131. @Reg Cæsar
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Spare us, that’s all too much, really now. Still wasn’t and isn’t 10% the violence of the NFL.
     
    NFLers have all that protective lingerie. Other forms of football are closer to nudity.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “NFLers have all that protective lingerie.”

    Up until ca.2010’s, it really didn’t make much a difference, sport. NFL had more broken necks, broken bones, even a few paralyzed players from direct impact of tackles, hits, etc. from players. Soccer certainly can’t lay claim to that kind of violence. At least Rugby’s in the right direction toward NFL, but even it can’t lay claim to the excessive amounts of violence–specifically because bulk players simply for the longest time didn’t exist in rugby. There weren’t very many 6’4-6’7″ players weighing over 350 lbs. in the game. When you have two or three players like that tackling a WR in open field, that’s spells a major disaster.

    “Other forms of football are closer to nudity.”

    Spare us the Freudian slips. Talk of nudity and lingerie = someone must be looking at special kinds of videos.

    Fact: Professional rugby is more akin to how the NFL was played around 1930 or 1940. Leather helmets (sans facemask) and very little protective equipment. Many of today’s rugby players would easily fit in on an NFL roster of that era. And the NFL players didn’t wear much protection in the 1920’s either at the start of the pro sport’s league. So what? Lots of things change with more information available. It’s called common sense and helping to reduce some of the major injuries.

    Also, this constant refrain of “Well, NFLers wear more protection”, so what? It’s called common sense. With that amount of physicality, head on violence, only a fool wouldn’t insist on it. NFL is one of the few organized professional sports on earth that resembles war, warfare–UNLIKE rugby, there is far more battle type tactics, strategies, etc. that resemble warfare. Imposing of one’s will upon another has been the heart of the NFL since forever. In primitive warfare of the hand to hand combat, the soldiers wore battle armor, had swords and shields. Were the Greeks, Romans, Vikings, etc. sissies for doing so? Balderdash. It’s called common sense. And apparently there’s little common sense on rugby.

    NFL is basically rugby, but the final draft. In other words people thinking up a coherent organized sport, the first couple drafts were rugby. Then someone with common sense said, “Know what? This game is cool, BUT…let’s actually allow the center player at the scrum to throw the ball forward like a real man. Throw it forward toward a teammate, instead of just tossing/lateraling it backward. Throw it forward to make it more interesting, AND of course the opposing side can tackle said receiver as hard as they can in open field.”

    And with that slight but major adjustment, the modern beginnings of the NFL was born. Anyone watching a rugby match today can clearly see that the NFL evolved from that sport, but that the one major difference—throwing a forward pass–changed the entire sport’s direction. More violence, and more opportunities for amazing scoring plays.

    No, NFL is way more violent than modern rugby. Rugby is violent in a 1940’s kind of way. it was in the right direction.

    I hate to state it, but perhaps if rugby was less white of a sport, meaning, had more blacks in their ranks compared with the NFL, it would be more violent. It’s violent on the level of a 1940’s style NFL game. You can see some kinds of hits, but the players aren’t very bulky, aren’t very powerful, etc.

    PS: It’s very telling that the NFL is now playing a few games in London to expand the market. For whatever the reason, the Brits seem okay with it. It won’t ever match soccer’s appeal in the UK, obviously, but apparently there’s a market for the NFL there–can’t say the same thing for UK professional rugby games played in the US, because there simply isn’t the same order of demand for the US to want to watch a sport that resembles the NFL, played around 1930.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    I hate to state it, but perhaps if rugby was less white of a sport, meaning, had more blacks in their ranks compared with the NFL, it would be more violent
     
    No, you love to state it. And you go out of your way to defend a majority-black league, as corrupt-- and corrupting-- as it has become. Teddy wanted it banned a century ago. Imagine what he'd say now.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  132. @Rooster16
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Yes, in America this is my experience as well. Our local semi-pro soccer team is essentially a sports conduit for lgbtq propaganda. Soccer is seen as “un-American” thus it’s to be celebrated by the left. Anytime something can be used to bash America and its culture; the left will promote it.

    Replies: @Jack P, @Wokechoke

    That’s in the US, but this world cup stopped England and other European teams from wearing rainbow arm bands. And they won’t sell alcohol or allow kosher food.

    The Qatar world cup is not woke.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack P


    That’s in the US, but this World Cup stopped England and other European teams from wearing rainbow arm bands.
     
    In other words, they took a stand against white supremacism. Funny how nobody, even here, sees it that way.

    And they won’t sell alcohol or allow kosher food.
     
    Perhaps kosher might be rebranded as halal.

    The Qatar World Cup is not woke.
     
    Because Qatar isn't. Though it would be nice if they treated their guest workers better. Without them, the whole country would grind to a halt.
  133. @Carbon blob
    Professional soccer more or less operates under unfettered capitalism, whereas the major American sports are downright socialist (salary caps, draft picks awarded to lousy teams).

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Professional soccer more or less operates under unfettered capitalism, whereas the major American sports are downright socialist (salary caps, draft picks awarded to lousy teams).

    Salary and team caps are now socialism? Even when the players still make millions? Those poor souls have to live out socialist oppression in their Malibu mansions.

    We have unfettered capitalism in the MLB and it has ruined the game. Small cap teams can have their best players picked by big cap teams and the fans for some reason put up with it. The luxury tax is a joke and goes towards farming Dominican Republic players for the big cap teams.

    Unfettered capitalism isn’t everything. Hatii has unfettered capitalism and half the country is controlled by a free market loving gangster named barbecue who burns his victims.

    Oh but that’s different the libertarians tell us. Free market magic is always the answer until you point out where it doesn’t work. But that’s different.

    It’s just another religion.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @John Johnson

    "Salary and team caps are now socialism?"

    Uh yes. Yes it is. And not socialism in a good sort of way. Before long they'll be forcing/persauding players to take drastic salary caps.


    "Even when the players still make millions?"

    And the billionaire owners make even more billions. In other words they can afford to field a team without a salary cap. Thank you, continue.


    "Those poor souls have to live out socialist oppression in their Malibu mansions."

    Way wait. Are you calling the billionaire owners poor souls? (who also benefit from corporate capitalism, they don't put very much of their own billions into building the stadiums--city taxes do that whether they want to or not. The owners also don't spend very much in way of giving jobs for local communities--minimum wage level jobs for groundskeeping, and consessions, which are overinflated prices to begin with.)

    Bottom line: Owners are billionaires, they aren't hurting and they can well afford to pay even more than they currently are.


    We have unfettered capitalism in the MLB and it has ruined the game."

    No that's not what ruined it. The NFL caught up to MLB in popularity in the mid/late '60's, and past it by the early '80's. It was already tied with MLB in the '70's. The super bowl became the biggest US championship by the late '80's early '90's. In a way, TV is all wrong for MLB. It looks boring and dull on TV while the NFL's popularity was greatly made by TV. That and the NFL Films--the NFL marketed itself better starting in the '60's. MLB relied heavily on....it's past, when it actually was the number one sport in the US. Well, that's all fine, but there comes a moment when you have to look forward and to the future. The NFL did just that and MLB did not and here we are at present--the NFL is number one in the US.

    This utter bullshit would be believable, credible, if people start blaming the owners as well for their hand in destroying sports like baseball. Due largely to corporate capitalism, they have it all their own way.

    The players to an extent are still underpaid, but at least they're better paid than they once were. They're just getting their share--the owners, billionaires, are benefitting like bandits in the corporate capitalism world we're presently in.


    Small cap teams can have their best players picked by big cap teams and the fans for some reason put up with it. The luxury tax is a joke and goes towards farming Dominican Republic players for the big cap teams.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    , @Corvinus
    @John Johnson

    “Unfettered capitalism isn’t everything“

    How about unfettered free speech? Is that everything?

    Yes, I know you didn’t make that comment. I’m simply making a connection here.

  134. @John Johnson
    @Carbon blob

    Professional soccer more or less operates under unfettered capitalism, whereas the major American sports are downright socialist (salary caps, draft picks awarded to lousy teams).

    Salary and team caps are now socialism? Even when the players still make millions? Those poor souls have to live out socialist oppression in their Malibu mansions.

    We have unfettered capitalism in the MLB and it has ruined the game. Small cap teams can have their best players picked by big cap teams and the fans for some reason put up with it. The luxury tax is a joke and goes towards farming Dominican Republic players for the big cap teams.

    Unfettered capitalism isn't everything. Hatii has unfettered capitalism and half the country is controlled by a free market loving gangster named barbecue who burns his victims.

    Oh but that's different the libertarians tell us. Free market magic is always the answer until you point out where it doesn't work. But that's different.

    It's just another religion.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Corvinus

    “Salary and team caps are now socialism?”

    Uh yes. Yes it is. And not socialism in a good sort of way. Before long they’ll be forcing/persauding players to take drastic salary caps.

    “Even when the players still make millions?”

    And the billionaire owners make even more billions. In other words they can afford to field a team without a salary cap. Thank you, continue.

    “Those poor souls have to live out socialist oppression in their Malibu mansions.”

    Way wait. Are you calling the billionaire owners poor souls? (who also benefit from corporate capitalism, they don’t put very much of their own billions into building the stadiums–city taxes do that whether they want to or not. The owners also don’t spend very much in way of giving jobs for local communities–minimum wage level jobs for groundskeeping, and consessions, which are overinflated prices to begin with.)

    Bottom line: Owners are billionaires, they aren’t hurting and they can well afford to pay even more than they currently are.

    We have unfettered capitalism in the MLB and it has ruined the game.”

    No that’s not what ruined it. The NFL caught up to MLB in popularity in the mid/late ’60’s, and past it by the early ’80’s. It was already tied with MLB in the ’70’s. The super bowl became the biggest US championship by the late ’80’s early ’90’s. In a way, TV is all wrong for MLB. It looks boring and dull on TV while the NFL’s popularity was greatly made by TV. That and the NFL Films–the NFL marketed itself better starting in the ’60’s. MLB relied heavily on….it’s past, when it actually was the number one sport in the US. Well, that’s all fine, but there comes a moment when you have to look forward and to the future. The NFL did just that and MLB did not and here we are at present–the NFL is number one in the US.

    This utter bullshit would be believable, credible, if people start blaming the owners as well for their hand in destroying sports like baseball. Due largely to corporate capitalism, they have it all their own way.

    The players to an extent are still underpaid, but at least they’re better paid than they once were. They’re just getting their share–the owners, billionaires, are benefitting like bandits in the corporate capitalism world we’re presently in.

    Small cap teams can have their best players picked by big cap teams and the fans for some reason put up with it. The luxury tax is a joke and goes towards farming Dominican Republic players for the big cap teams.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    “Salary and team caps are now socialism?”
     
    Uh yes. Yes it is. And not socialism in a good sort of way. Before long they’ll be forcing/persauding players to take drastic salary caps.

    Do explain using any common definition of socialism. Note that the government was not involved.

    “Even when the players still make millions?”
     
    And the billionaire owners make even more billions. In other words they can afford to field a team without a salary cap. Thank you, continue.

    You think all MLB owners make billions?

    The Yankees are the most profitable team and they made 668 million in 2018
    https://www.sportscasting.com/10-mlb-teams-that-made-the-most-money-in-2018/

    The Royals (empty stadium in video) had 263 million in revenue.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/196662/revenue-of-the-kansas-city-royals/

    You don't know what you are talking about and don't understand what socialism means.

    Another free market worshipper that is used to making up stuff in your head and not used to be challenged outside your comfort zone.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  135. @Anonymous
    @prime noticer


    he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.
     
    I'm a millennial, and I noticed this growing up. The kids who tended to play organized soccer tended to be smaller and less athletic and coordinated. And they were often steered into soccer by parents who tended to be more liberal, overprotective, and helicopter parents than the other parents.

    I myself wasn't a big, tough kid or phenomenal athlete, for example I never played organized football but played "Fall ball" instead ( Little League baseball league in the Fall as well as Spring), because I wasn't very big and didn't have much potential for football and really liked baseball. But even I was generally bigger than the kids who were in soccer and more coordinated.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    The kids who tended to play organized soccer tended to be smaller and less athletic and coordinated. And they were often steered into soccer by parents who tended to be more liberal, overprotective, and helicopter parents than the other parents.

    This is an accurate description of why the US has not been historically competitive on the international level beyond 1-2 individual players.

    Our potential soccer stars tend to play football and basketball instead.

    Granted, he’d be doing a lot more bench press if he were an American, but this guy (Didier Drogba) is from the Ivory Coast and used to play for Chelsea and several other European clubs several years ago. I always found it very easy to picture him playing running back in the NFL.

  136. @RadicalCenter
    @Chrisnonymous

    Appreciate the sentiment up to a point, but maybe rein it in.

    For example, it shouldn’t be considered pathetic to attend a symphony concert when we lack the ability and/or training to play such beautiful complex music.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    Of course. But music and sportsball are not the same thing. Unless, as I said, you are watching sportsball because a relative is playing, etc, the appeal of it is just that my “tribe” wins. Music has the inherent appeal of being music. Listening is pleasurable. If you don’t know the players or experience the game yourself, there is no pleasure in watching sports separate from the tribal-winning aspect. It’s not the same as music or a movie or the news.

    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
    @Chrisnonymous


    If you don’t know the players or experience the game yourself, there is no pleasure in watching sports separate from the tribal-winning aspect.
     
    I disagree. I've been playing/coaching/watching football for fifty some years, and I very much enjoy the chess aspect of it. I don't care about the individual players in the least; I FF past injuries. Jumping straight from play to play, it takes less than an hour to watch a game. It also makes it easier to picture the overall strategy that the coaching staff is trying to implement. It's got a music all it's own.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  137. @RadicalCenter
    @Chrisnonymous

    Appreciate the sentiment up to a point, but maybe rein it in.

    For example, it shouldn’t be considered pathetic to attend a symphony concert when we lack the ability and/or training to play such beautiful complex music.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Chrisnonymous

    Riddle me this… what’s the difference between watching sports and watching pornography? In both cases, you living vicariously through the people you are watching. You can “appreciate” sports as masterful performance, but the same could be said of porn. They are very parallel. The players/actors tend to have physical characteristics desired by the watchers and abilities the watchers would like to have. The dopamine hit from pornography comes from sexual arousal. Where does the dopamine hit from sportsball come from? “My team won!”

  138. @anonymous
    OT

    We live in truly extraordinary times. Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes. Fuentes is an alt-right social media star who mainly appeals to other college aged white Christians.

    Here is a sample of his most notable work.

    Nick Fuentes warns that if "the Jews" don't stop oppressing people like him, it will soon lead to violence: "When it comes to the Jews, every society where shit has gone down with these people, it always goes from zero to sixty."

    https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888
     
    Trump is now in disavow mode but it might be too late. The worst fear of Jews was even a leader with Jewish grandchildren and love for Israel could not be trusted if he awakened white populism. The movement was always to going to energize and gravitate to a guy like Fuentes. Trump can either drop out of the 2024 race or stick to the new path of calling for limits on Jewish power and telling Israel it needs to fight Iran on its own.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Ralph L, @Ron Mexico, @Swish, @Nicholas Stix

    The occasional off-topic comment surely is fine. This smacks of a desperate F5’ing of the screen so as to post this unutterable b.s. as soon as a new post was published (first, no less). I would hang my head in shame for derailing a thread of soccer-related banter with this.

  139. @Steve Sailer
    @Corvinus

    A Bill James essay.

    Replies: @anonymous, @William Badwhite, @Corvinus

    He writes a number of essays. Is it from a column or book? Which one? Is there a link you can provide to us readers?

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Corvinus

    James, B. (2003). The new Bill James historical baseball abstract. Free Press. "Down in Front" (p. 302).

    Replies: @Corvinus

  140. @prime noticer
    in the US, soccer is well to the left. Steve is a good sports writer in general, but he has absolutely, positively no idea at all what he's talking about when it comes to soccer. every 4 years when the World Cup comes around, he writes the same couple garbage takes.

    i've encouraged him to just stop writing about soccer, as he usually just chills on topics he doesn't know much about and admits he doesn't know much about. he even avoids the obvious HBD angle here - Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America, yes, soccer does have a phenotype. the best US soccer player right now is a small weak guy who would get wedgies from football, baseball, and basketball players. so are the fans.

    at the professional level, soccer is an openly leftist identity thing in the US, and Steve is totally dead wrong here.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Peter Akuleyev, @John Johnson, @Corvinus

    “even avoids the obvious HBD angle here – Americans who are REALLY into soccer are physically weak people who dislike football because they would suck at football. in America”

    And you have data and analysis to support your hypothesis?

    “yes, soccer does have a phenotype”

    Yes. Quick twitch with excellent eye feet coordination. The American college players are littered with such types.

  141. Steve Sailer:

    “In Portland, following soccer is an affectation of globalist opposition to the American nation and culture.”

    And you dislike soccer out of opposition to globalist culture and because it is not American. Your major complain about soccer is that it must be terrible because it is not exactly like American sports like basketball and football and there aren’t many black American athletes in them.

    So you are the flip side of the coin of those arrogant Portland liberals. You don’t realize that because of your extraordinary levels of egocentrism, narcissism and solipsism.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Zero Philosopher


    To Steve Sailer: "So you are the flip side of the coin of those arrogant Portland liberals. You don’t realize that because of your extraordinary levels of egocentrism, narcissism and solipsism."
     
    That's not even merely repetitious. You just said the same thing in triplicate, and bad triplicate, at that, because nobody is a "solipsist" as a practical matter. It's just a pretentious insult. Not very philosophical, are you?
  142. @John Johnson
    @Carbon blob

    Professional soccer more or less operates under unfettered capitalism, whereas the major American sports are downright socialist (salary caps, draft picks awarded to lousy teams).

    Salary and team caps are now socialism? Even when the players still make millions? Those poor souls have to live out socialist oppression in their Malibu mansions.

    We have unfettered capitalism in the MLB and it has ruined the game. Small cap teams can have their best players picked by big cap teams and the fans for some reason put up with it. The luxury tax is a joke and goes towards farming Dominican Republic players for the big cap teams.

    Unfettered capitalism isn't everything. Hatii has unfettered capitalism and half the country is controlled by a free market loving gangster named barbecue who burns his victims.

    Oh but that's different the libertarians tell us. Free market magic is always the answer until you point out where it doesn't work. But that's different.

    It's just another religion.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Corvinus

    “Unfettered capitalism isn’t everything“

    How about unfettered free speech? Is that everything?

    Yes, I know you didn’t make that comment. I’m simply making a connection here.

  143. The Seattle Sword Swallowers versus the Portland Pud Puffers is very left and gay.

    Celtic versus Ranger, on the other hand…

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Brutusale

    The 1980s were a laugh for footie fans. One thing about Thatcher is that she ruined the good times. Huns v Tims. Gave the Journalists things to write about.

  144. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Reg Cæsar

    "NFLers have all that protective lingerie."

    Up until ca.2010's, it really didn't make much a difference, sport. NFL had more broken necks, broken bones, even a few paralyzed players from direct impact of tackles, hits, etc. from players. Soccer certainly can't lay claim to that kind of violence. At least Rugby's in the right direction toward NFL, but even it can't lay claim to the excessive amounts of violence--specifically because bulk players simply for the longest time didn't exist in rugby. There weren't very many 6'4-6'7" players weighing over 350 lbs. in the game. When you have two or three players like that tackling a WR in open field, that's spells a major disaster.

    "Other forms of football are closer to nudity."

    Spare us the Freudian slips. Talk of nudity and lingerie = someone must be looking at special kinds of videos.

    Fact: Professional rugby is more akin to how the NFL was played around 1930 or 1940. Leather helmets (sans facemask) and very little protective equipment. Many of today's rugby players would easily fit in on an NFL roster of that era. And the NFL players didn't wear much protection in the 1920's either at the start of the pro sport's league. So what? Lots of things change with more information available. It's called common sense and helping to reduce some of the major injuries.

    Also, this constant refrain of "Well, NFLers wear more protection", so what? It's called common sense. With that amount of physicality, head on violence, only a fool wouldn't insist on it. NFL is one of the few organized professional sports on earth that resembles war, warfare--UNLIKE rugby, there is far more battle type tactics, strategies, etc. that resemble warfare. Imposing of one's will upon another has been the heart of the NFL since forever. In primitive warfare of the hand to hand combat, the soldiers wore battle armor, had swords and shields. Were the Greeks, Romans, Vikings, etc. sissies for doing so? Balderdash. It's called common sense. And apparently there's little common sense on rugby.

    NFL is basically rugby, but the final draft. In other words people thinking up a coherent organized sport, the first couple drafts were rugby. Then someone with common sense said, "Know what? This game is cool, BUT...let's actually allow the center player at the scrum to throw the ball forward like a real man. Throw it forward toward a teammate, instead of just tossing/lateraling it backward. Throw it forward to make it more interesting, AND of course the opposing side can tackle said receiver as hard as they can in open field."

    And with that slight but major adjustment, the modern beginnings of the NFL was born. Anyone watching a rugby match today can clearly see that the NFL evolved from that sport, but that the one major difference---throwing a forward pass--changed the entire sport's direction. More violence, and more opportunities for amazing scoring plays.

    No, NFL is way more violent than modern rugby. Rugby is violent in a 1940's kind of way. it was in the right direction.

    I hate to state it, but perhaps if rugby was less white of a sport, meaning, had more blacks in their ranks compared with the NFL, it would be more violent. It's violent on the level of a 1940's style NFL game. You can see some kinds of hits, but the players aren't very bulky, aren't very powerful, etc.

    PS: It's very telling that the NFL is now playing a few games in London to expand the market. For whatever the reason, the Brits seem okay with it. It won't ever match soccer's appeal in the UK, obviously, but apparently there's a market for the NFL there--can't say the same thing for UK professional rugby games played in the US, because there simply isn't the same order of demand for the US to want to watch a sport that resembles the NFL, played around 1930.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I hate to state it, but perhaps if rugby was less white of a sport, meaning, had more blacks in their ranks compared with the NFL, it would be more violent

    No, you love to state it. And you go out of your way to defend a majority-black league, as corrupt– and corrupting– as it has become. Teddy wanted it banned a century ago. Imagine what he’d say now.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Reg Cæsar

    He's a negrophiliac.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  145. @Jack P
    @Rooster16

    That's in the US, but this world cup stopped England and other European teams from wearing rainbow arm bands. And they won't sell alcohol or allow kosher food.

    The Qatar world cup is not woke.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    That’s in the US, but this World Cup stopped England and other European teams from wearing rainbow arm bands.

    In other words, they took a stand against white supremacism. Funny how nobody, even here, sees it that way.

    And they won’t sell alcohol or allow kosher food.

    Perhaps kosher might be rebranded as halal.

    The Qatar World Cup is not woke.

    Because Qatar isn’t. Though it would be nice if they treated their guest workers better. Without them, the whole country would grind to a halt.

  146. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @John Johnson

    "Salary and team caps are now socialism?"

    Uh yes. Yes it is. And not socialism in a good sort of way. Before long they'll be forcing/persauding players to take drastic salary caps.


    "Even when the players still make millions?"

    And the billionaire owners make even more billions. In other words they can afford to field a team without a salary cap. Thank you, continue.


    "Those poor souls have to live out socialist oppression in their Malibu mansions."

    Way wait. Are you calling the billionaire owners poor souls? (who also benefit from corporate capitalism, they don't put very much of their own billions into building the stadiums--city taxes do that whether they want to or not. The owners also don't spend very much in way of giving jobs for local communities--minimum wage level jobs for groundskeeping, and consessions, which are overinflated prices to begin with.)

    Bottom line: Owners are billionaires, they aren't hurting and they can well afford to pay even more than they currently are.


    We have unfettered capitalism in the MLB and it has ruined the game."

    No that's not what ruined it. The NFL caught up to MLB in popularity in the mid/late '60's, and past it by the early '80's. It was already tied with MLB in the '70's. The super bowl became the biggest US championship by the late '80's early '90's. In a way, TV is all wrong for MLB. It looks boring and dull on TV while the NFL's popularity was greatly made by TV. That and the NFL Films--the NFL marketed itself better starting in the '60's. MLB relied heavily on....it's past, when it actually was the number one sport in the US. Well, that's all fine, but there comes a moment when you have to look forward and to the future. The NFL did just that and MLB did not and here we are at present--the NFL is number one in the US.

    This utter bullshit would be believable, credible, if people start blaming the owners as well for their hand in destroying sports like baseball. Due largely to corporate capitalism, they have it all their own way.

    The players to an extent are still underpaid, but at least they're better paid than they once were. They're just getting their share--the owners, billionaires, are benefitting like bandits in the corporate capitalism world we're presently in.


    Small cap teams can have their best players picked by big cap teams and the fans for some reason put up with it. The luxury tax is a joke and goes towards farming Dominican Republic players for the big cap teams.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    “Salary and team caps are now socialism?”

    Uh yes. Yes it is. And not socialism in a good sort of way. Before long they’ll be forcing/persauding players to take drastic salary caps.

    Do explain using any common definition of socialism. Note that the government was not involved.

    “Even when the players still make millions?”

    And the billionaire owners make even more billions. In other words they can afford to field a team without a salary cap. Thank you, continue.

    You think all MLB owners make billions?

    The Yankees are the most profitable team and they made 668 million in 2018
    https://www.sportscasting.com/10-mlb-teams-that-made-the-most-money-in-2018/

    The Royals (empty stadium in video) had 263 million in revenue.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/196662/revenue-of-the-kansas-city-royals/

    You don’t know what you are talking about and don’t understand what socialism means.

    Another free market worshipper that is used to making up stuff in your head and not used to be challenged outside your comfort zone.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @John Johnson

    Oh goody! Round 2.

    "Do explain using any common definition of socialism. Note that the government was not involved."

    Taxes (local, state level, also tax rebates/elimination of taxes for a certain number of years in order to persuade billionaire owners to not leave their cities) = government involvement in sports.

    "You think all MLB owners make billions?"

    The owners like, ca.99% of them are billionaires. That doesn't necessarily mean that they made their fortunes soley thru their sports team. HOWEVER, the NFL collectively is the wealthiest sport in the US, with revenues well over tens of billions annually. This revenue is spread out among the owners.

    For example: In 1932 HOF PIT O Arthur J. Rooney, of Pittsburgh, PA won $300 at a local racetrackk, and with this amount started what became known as the NFL Pittsburgh Pirates (the team changed their name to the Steelers during WW2). Around 2008, Conservative Talk Radio Host Rush Limbaugh failed in an attempted bit to purchase a controlling interest in STL Rams NFL franchise. Sources vary, but among the stated numbers were that he (at the head of a consortium of STL buisnessmen) were willing to purchase the franchise for around $500 million. The Rams were later sold for a larger sum.

    In other words, Rush's offer was rejected, largely in part because the offer wasn't high enough.

    Gone are the days when a pioneer could start an NFL team for a few hundred. To have skin in the game, one must start out with about a billion dollars.


    "The Royals (empty stadium in video) had 263 million in revenue."

    It's somewhat straightforward. There are too many teams in MLB. Contract about 50% out of the league. Instead of the current 32 teams, remove 12 or so franchises and have 20 teams total in MLB.
    That would save any dead weight, even though the lower revenue teams are still making out like bandits. After all, KC's market isn't the same level as NY, (NY is the largest sports regional market in the US, or, it is top 2.) and the idea that one should compare markets is insanity.


    "ONLY 263 million" Oh, my they're paupers. And 260+ million goes a lot farther in small market KC. That they made that much is a crime, means the system is rigged for them to make a most tidy profit when they should go out of business.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  147. @Chrisnonymous
    @RadicalCenter

    Of course. But music and sportsball are not the same thing. Unless, as I said, you are watching sportsball because a relative is playing, etc, the appeal of it is just that my "tribe" wins. Music has the inherent appeal of being music. Listening is pleasurable. If you don't know the players or experience the game yourself, there is no pleasure in watching sports separate from the tribal-winning aspect. It's not the same as music or a movie or the news.

    Replies: @Veteran Aryan

    If you don’t know the players or experience the game yourself, there is no pleasure in watching sports separate from the tribal-winning aspect.

    I disagree. I’ve been playing/coaching/watching football for fifty some years, and I very much enjoy the chess aspect of it. I don’t care about the individual players in the least; I FF past injuries. Jumping straight from play to play, it takes less than an hour to watch a game. It also makes it easier to picture the overall strategy that the coaching staff is trying to implement. It’s got a music all it’s own.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Veteran Aryan

    I might change my mind when you find someone who likes watching hackey-sack.

  148. @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    He writes a number of essays. Is it from a column or book? Which one? Is there a link you can provide to us readers?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    James, B. (2003). The new Bill James historical baseball abstract. Free Press. “Down in Front” (p. 302).

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @ScarletNumber

    Wow, a page number. Quotes and statistics are much more effective. I’m sure though that Mr. Sailer appreciates you being his gopher.

  149. @Veteran Aryan
    @Chrisnonymous


    If you don’t know the players or experience the game yourself, there is no pleasure in watching sports separate from the tribal-winning aspect.
     
    I disagree. I've been playing/coaching/watching football for fifty some years, and I very much enjoy the chess aspect of it. I don't care about the individual players in the least; I FF past injuries. Jumping straight from play to play, it takes less than an hour to watch a game. It also makes it easier to picture the overall strategy that the coaching staff is trying to implement. It's got a music all it's own.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I might change my mind when you find someone who likes watching hackey-sack.

  150. @ScarletNumber
    @Corvinus

    James, B. (2003). The new Bill James historical baseball abstract. Free Press. "Down in Front" (p. 302).

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Wow, a page number. Quotes and statistics are much more effective. I’m sure though that Mr. Sailer appreciates you being his gopher.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
  151. But the truth of the matter is that America’s best athletes don’t play soccer.

  152. @anon
    Well, now that NFL and NBA are practically taken over by blacks, MLB by Hispanics, and NHL by Canadians and Russians, what are white boys supposed to play anymore in America besides soccer? Pickleball? Crew? Or maybe more like X Games sports.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    The majority of major league baseball players are non-hispanic white. About 1/4 of all NFL players are non-hispanic white. About 1/4 of NHL players are American born.

    No clue why this would prevent youths from playing football and hockey in high school.

    What is pickle ball?

  153. @John Johnson
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    “Salary and team caps are now socialism?”
     
    Uh yes. Yes it is. And not socialism in a good sort of way. Before long they’ll be forcing/persauding players to take drastic salary caps.

    Do explain using any common definition of socialism. Note that the government was not involved.

    “Even when the players still make millions?”
     
    And the billionaire owners make even more billions. In other words they can afford to field a team without a salary cap. Thank you, continue.

    You think all MLB owners make billions?

    The Yankees are the most profitable team and they made 668 million in 2018
    https://www.sportscasting.com/10-mlb-teams-that-made-the-most-money-in-2018/

    The Royals (empty stadium in video) had 263 million in revenue.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/196662/revenue-of-the-kansas-city-royals/

    You don't know what you are talking about and don't understand what socialism means.

    Another free market worshipper that is used to making up stuff in your head and not used to be challenged outside your comfort zone.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Oh goody! Round 2.

    “Do explain using any common definition of socialism. Note that the government was not involved.”

    Taxes (local, state level, also tax rebates/elimination of taxes for a certain number of years in order to persuade billionaire owners to not leave their cities) = government involvement in sports.

    “You think all MLB owners make billions?”

    The owners like, ca.99% of them are billionaires. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they made their fortunes soley thru their sports team. HOWEVER, the NFL collectively is the wealthiest sport in the US, with revenues well over tens of billions annually. This revenue is spread out among the owners.

    For example: In 1932 HOF PIT O Arthur J. Rooney, of Pittsburgh, PA won $300 at a local racetrackk, and with this amount started what became known as the NFL Pittsburgh Pirates (the team changed their name to the Steelers during WW2). Around 2008, Conservative Talk Radio Host Rush Limbaugh failed in an attempted bit to purchase a controlling interest in STL Rams NFL franchise. Sources vary, but among the stated numbers were that he (at the head of a consortium of STL buisnessmen) were willing to purchase the franchise for around $500 million. The Rams were later sold for a larger sum.

    In other words, Rush’s offer was rejected, largely in part because the offer wasn’t high enough.

    Gone are the days when a pioneer could start an NFL team for a few hundred. To have skin in the game, one must start out with about a billion dollars.

    “The Royals (empty stadium in video) had 263 million in revenue.”

    It’s somewhat straightforward. There are too many teams in MLB. Contract about 50% out of the league. Instead of the current 32 teams, remove 12 or so franchises and have 20 teams total in MLB.
    That would save any dead weight, even though the lower revenue teams are still making out like bandits. After all, KC’s market isn’t the same level as NY, (NY is the largest sports regional market in the US, or, it is top 2.) and the idea that one should compare markets is insanity.

    “ONLY 263 million” Oh, my they’re paupers. And 260+ million goes a lot farther in small market KC. That they made that much is a crime, means the system is rigged for them to make a most tidy profit when they should go out of business.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Arthur J. Rooney, of Pittsburgh, PA won $300 at a local racetrack, and with this amount started what became known as the NFL Pittsburgh Pirates
     
    Rooney's family owned Yonkers Raceway for many years, and the main restaurant there is still named for his late son Dan, the former ambassador to Ireland.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  154. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @John Johnson

    Oh goody! Round 2.

    "Do explain using any common definition of socialism. Note that the government was not involved."

    Taxes (local, state level, also tax rebates/elimination of taxes for a certain number of years in order to persuade billionaire owners to not leave their cities) = government involvement in sports.

    "You think all MLB owners make billions?"

    The owners like, ca.99% of them are billionaires. That doesn't necessarily mean that they made their fortunes soley thru their sports team. HOWEVER, the NFL collectively is the wealthiest sport in the US, with revenues well over tens of billions annually. This revenue is spread out among the owners.

    For example: In 1932 HOF PIT O Arthur J. Rooney, of Pittsburgh, PA won $300 at a local racetrackk, and with this amount started what became known as the NFL Pittsburgh Pirates (the team changed their name to the Steelers during WW2). Around 2008, Conservative Talk Radio Host Rush Limbaugh failed in an attempted bit to purchase a controlling interest in STL Rams NFL franchise. Sources vary, but among the stated numbers were that he (at the head of a consortium of STL buisnessmen) were willing to purchase the franchise for around $500 million. The Rams were later sold for a larger sum.

    In other words, Rush's offer was rejected, largely in part because the offer wasn't high enough.

    Gone are the days when a pioneer could start an NFL team for a few hundred. To have skin in the game, one must start out with about a billion dollars.


    "The Royals (empty stadium in video) had 263 million in revenue."

    It's somewhat straightforward. There are too many teams in MLB. Contract about 50% out of the league. Instead of the current 32 teams, remove 12 or so franchises and have 20 teams total in MLB.
    That would save any dead weight, even though the lower revenue teams are still making out like bandits. After all, KC's market isn't the same level as NY, (NY is the largest sports regional market in the US, or, it is top 2.) and the idea that one should compare markets is insanity.


    "ONLY 263 million" Oh, my they're paupers. And 260+ million goes a lot farther in small market KC. That they made that much is a crime, means the system is rigged for them to make a most tidy profit when they should go out of business.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Arthur J. Rooney, of Pittsburgh, PA won $300 at a local racetrack, and with this amount started what became known as the NFL Pittsburgh Pirates

    Rooney’s family owned Yonkers Raceway for many years, and the main restaurant there is still named for his late son Dan, the former ambassador to Ireland.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @ScarletNumber

    "Rooney’s family owned Yonkers Raceway for many years, "

    True. But not in 1932.

    "and the main restaurant there is still named for his late son Dan, the former ambassador to Ireland."

    Context supplied: HOF PIT O Dan Rooney, along with HOF PIT Scout Bill Nunn, both were largely responsible for putting together the '70's dynasty, Team of the Decade (4 Super Bowl Championships). Pretty much every starter for PIT during the '70's was home grown talent--via the NFL draft. (e.g. Greene, Greenwood, Ham, Lambert, Blount, Russell, Shell, Harris, Bradshaw, Webster, etc.)

    * Of course, they were paid peanuts compared to today. But then, most NFLers weren't paid what the owners were starting to make in the '70's (not billions then, but tens of millions collectively, the 1970's decade was when the NFL was beginning to surpass MLB in the US for most revenue for sport. Hadn't quite, but it certainly was catching up. But, the star elite players weren't yet making the salaries that MLB via free agency of the late '70's would earn).

    Replies: @Brutusale

  155. @Reg Cæsar
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    I hate to state it, but perhaps if rugby was less white of a sport, meaning, had more blacks in their ranks compared with the NFL, it would be more violent
     
    No, you love to state it. And you go out of your way to defend a majority-black league, as corrupt-- and corrupting-- as it has become. Teddy wanted it banned a century ago. Imagine what he'd say now.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    He’s a negrophiliac.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Wokechoke

    Shut up.

  156. @Rooster16
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Yes, in America this is my experience as well. Our local semi-pro soccer team is essentially a sports conduit for lgbtq propaganda. Soccer is seen as “un-American” thus it’s to be celebrated by the left. Anytime something can be used to bash America and its culture; the left will promote it.

    Replies: @Jack P, @Wokechoke

    Qatar have given a rather good based World Cup to the world.

  157. There’s on the pitch and off the pitch.

    Let us look at on pitch football violence after we consider the Hysel Stadium, where Liverpool fans massacred Juventus fans…

    Football has always been associated with lethal gang violence.

    On pitch sports violence.

    there is more.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Wokechoke

    "there is more"

    No, not really much more. The violence of on pitch football still doesn't match the physical violence on on field NFL. That one would be naive to think that it ever could, well, there's the rub.

  158. @Brutusale
    The Seattle Sword Swallowers versus the Portland Pud Puffers is very left and gay.

    Celtic versus Ranger, on the other hand...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cggTbCcbcNA

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The 1980s were a laugh for footie fans. One thing about Thatcher is that she ruined the good times. Huns v Tims. Gave the Journalists things to write about.

  159. The 1980s were a laugh for footie fans. One thing about Thatcher is that she ruined the good times. Huns v Tims. Gave the Journalists things to write about.

    World Cup was bathed in blood too.

  160. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    The Anglo world had railways first, so they had visiting teams first. That required national conventions to organize national rules. The Anglo countries made up a ton of rules in the 1860-1890 era, including for their own local variant games. So, when other countries like Argentina got railroads making national level sports possible, rather than go thru all the work of standardizing their own, they just borrowed Anglo rules.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Wokechoke

    It was already a working class game.

    The US team that finished third in the brutal 1930 world cup were all guys who worked manual laboring jobs. a handful of British expats among them.

    Billy Gonsalves, called the game against Argentina “murder” and said, “They crippled Douglas, deliberately, they broke Tracey’s leg, they hit Auld.”

    The injury to Auld — Cummings reports that he “had his lip ripped wide open” after the third Argentine goal — led to one of the great myths of World Cup history. When the team’s trainer, Jock Coll, entered the field to attend to Auld, legend has it that a bottle of chloroform in his medicine bag broke open, so incapacitating Coll that he had to be assisted off of the field. According to Cummings’ official report, “one of the players from across the La Platte River had knocked the smelling salts out of Trainer Coll’s hand and into Andy’s eyes, temporarily blinding one of the outstanding ‘little stars’ of the World’s Series.”

    https://phillysoccerpage.net/2014/03/19/the-us-at-the-1930-world-cup/

  161. @Wokechoke
    There's on the pitch and off the pitch.

    Let us look at on pitch football violence after we consider the Hysel Stadium, where Liverpool fans massacred Juventus fans...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v50STmvf1AQ

    Football has always been associated with lethal gang violence.



    On pitch sports violence.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwqLn0F8jXk


    there is more.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “there is more”

    No, not really much more. The violence of on pitch football still doesn’t match the physical violence on on field NFL. That one would be naive to think that it ever could, well, there’s the rub.

  162. @ScarletNumber
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Arthur J. Rooney, of Pittsburgh, PA won $300 at a local racetrack, and with this amount started what became known as the NFL Pittsburgh Pirates
     
    Rooney's family owned Yonkers Raceway for many years, and the main restaurant there is still named for his late son Dan, the former ambassador to Ireland.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “Rooney’s family owned Yonkers Raceway for many years, ”

    True. But not in 1932.

    “and the main restaurant there is still named for his late son Dan, the former ambassador to Ireland.”

    Context supplied: HOF PIT O Dan Rooney, along with HOF PIT Scout Bill Nunn, both were largely responsible for putting together the ’70’s dynasty, Team of the Decade (4 Super Bowl Championships). Pretty much every starter for PIT during the ’70’s was home grown talent–via the NFL draft. (e.g. Greene, Greenwood, Ham, Lambert, Blount, Russell, Shell, Harris, Bradshaw, Webster, etc.)

    * Of course, they were paid peanuts compared to today. But then, most NFLers weren’t paid what the owners were starting to make in the ’70’s (not billions then, but tens of millions collectively, the 1970’s decade was when the NFL was beginning to surpass MLB in the US for most revenue for sport. Hadn’t quite, but it certainly was catching up. But, the star elite players weren’t yet making the salaries that MLB via free agency of the late ’70’s would earn).

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

    Note the defensive coordinator of pro football's first steroid team. He learned his lesson from Sid Gillman, as did another one of the coordinators whose subsequent teams had a lot of juice monkeys.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  163. @Wokechoke
    @Reg Cæsar

    He's a negrophiliac.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Shut up.

  164. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @ScarletNumber

    "Rooney’s family owned Yonkers Raceway for many years, "

    True. But not in 1932.

    "and the main restaurant there is still named for his late son Dan, the former ambassador to Ireland."

    Context supplied: HOF PIT O Dan Rooney, along with HOF PIT Scout Bill Nunn, both were largely responsible for putting together the '70's dynasty, Team of the Decade (4 Super Bowl Championships). Pretty much every starter for PIT during the '70's was home grown talent--via the NFL draft. (e.g. Greene, Greenwood, Ham, Lambert, Blount, Russell, Shell, Harris, Bradshaw, Webster, etc.)

    * Of course, they were paid peanuts compared to today. But then, most NFLers weren't paid what the owners were starting to make in the '70's (not billions then, but tens of millions collectively, the 1970's decade was when the NFL was beginning to surpass MLB in the US for most revenue for sport. Hadn't quite, but it certainly was catching up. But, the star elite players weren't yet making the salaries that MLB via free agency of the late '70's would earn).

    Replies: @Brutusale

    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

    Note the defensive coordinator of pro football’s first steroid team. He learned his lesson from Sid Gillman, as did another one of the coordinators whose subsequent teams had a lot of juice monkeys.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Brutusale

    In the ESPN article on PEDS among the AFL's SD in the early '60's, it is constantly repeated that HOF WR SD Lance Alworth explicitly stated that he never took PEDS during the time that his teammates did.

    Whew!

    In other words, PEDS in the NFL's classic eras it comes down to WHO exactly, or WHICH players took them. Everyone can agree that PEDS in the NFL were a thing earlier than originally thought, (and certainly were widespread in the NFL long before they were in MLB), but it does matter which players took them.

    Stating that sub/bench players took PEDS, no one bats an eye. Players do what they have to to remain on the roster.

    Stating that some of the NFL's all time greatest players took PEDS, well, where's the proof, the evidence? Anyone can make a claim, where is the evidence?

    And regarding SD's all time greatest players of the AFL era, the first name that comes to mind today is Lance Alworth, as he was the prototype WR before Jerry Rice. Per Alworth's statements and the article, he didn't take them during his career.

    Again, not saying that great NFLers didn't take PEDS. Although perhaps not as many of them did during this era as would be presumed without direct proof. But again, it comes down to WHICH players took them.

    As for the Team of the Decade '70's Steelers, it's been well recorded that the players that took them on PIT were either sub/sometime starters and not the HOFers. Haters, sour grapes by rival teams who plain sucked, what do you expect? Consider the source. If there's proof and evidence, then produce it. Otherwise it's total bullshit.

  165. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    In Portland, following soccer is an affectation of globalist opposition to the American nation and culture. Most other places, soccer manifests itself as concentric rings of loyalty to neighborhood, city, and nation, or perhaps to religion or class.
     
    America

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/04/17/fashion/17PREMIER1/17JPPREMIER1-jumbo.jpg

    England

    https://twitter.com/kunley_drukpa/status/1594677974938570752

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Rooster16, @rienzi

    The “America” picture is of Liverpool fans. So, LGBT+++ positive? Of course!

  166. @Brutusale
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

    Note the defensive coordinator of pro football's first steroid team. He learned his lesson from Sid Gillman, as did another one of the coordinators whose subsequent teams had a lot of juice monkeys.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    In the ESPN article on PEDS among the AFL’s SD in the early ’60’s, it is constantly repeated that HOF WR SD Lance Alworth explicitly stated that he never took PEDS during the time that his teammates did.

    Whew!

    In other words, PEDS in the NFL’s classic eras it comes down to WHO exactly, or WHICH players took them. Everyone can agree that PEDS in the NFL were a thing earlier than originally thought, (and certainly were widespread in the NFL long before they were in MLB), but it does matter which players took them.

    Stating that sub/bench players took PEDS, no one bats an eye. Players do what they have to to remain on the roster.

    Stating that some of the NFL’s all time greatest players took PEDS, well, where’s the proof, the evidence? Anyone can make a claim, where is the evidence?

    And regarding SD’s all time greatest players of the AFL era, the first name that comes to mind today is Lance Alworth, as he was the prototype WR before Jerry Rice. Per Alworth’s statements and the article, he didn’t take them during his career.

    Again, not saying that great NFLers didn’t take PEDS. Although perhaps not as many of them did during this era as would be presumed without direct proof. But again, it comes down to WHICH players took them.

    As for the Team of the Decade ’70’s Steelers, it’s been well recorded that the players that took them on PIT were either sub/sometime starters and not the HOFers. Haters, sour grapes by rival teams who plain sucked, what do you expect? Consider the source. If there’s proof and evidence, then produce it. Otherwise it’s total bullshit.

  167. @anonymous
    OT

    We live in truly extraordinary times. Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes. Fuentes is an alt-right social media star who mainly appeals to other college aged white Christians.

    Here is a sample of his most notable work.

    Nick Fuentes warns that if "the Jews" don't stop oppressing people like him, it will soon lead to violence: "When it comes to the Jews, every society where shit has gone down with these people, it always goes from zero to sixty."

    https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888
     
    Trump is now in disavow mode but it might be too late. The worst fear of Jews was even a leader with Jewish grandchildren and love for Israel could not be trusted if he awakened white populism. The movement was always to going to energize and gravitate to a guy like Fuentes. Trump can either drop out of the 2024 race or stick to the new path of calling for limits on Jewish power and telling Israel it needs to fight Iran on its own.

    Replies: @IHTG, @Ralph L, @Ron Mexico, @Swish, @Nicholas Stix

    “Several days ago Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes.”

    So, one White populist who can’t be bothered to read sat down for dinner with another White populist who can’t be bothered to read

  168. @Zero Philosopher
    Steve Sailer:

    "In Portland, following soccer is an affectation of globalist opposition to the American nation and culture."

    And you dislike soccer out of opposition to globalist culture and because it is not American. Your major complain about soccer is that it must be terrible because it is not exactly like American sports like basketball and football and there aren't many black American athletes in them.

    So you are the flip side of the coin of those arrogant Portland liberals. You don't realize that because of your extraordinary levels of egocentrism, narcissism and solipsism.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    To Steve Sailer: “So you are the flip side of the coin of those arrogant Portland liberals. You don’t realize that because of your extraordinary levels of egocentrism, narcissism and solipsism.”

    That’s not even merely repetitious. You just said the same thing in triplicate, and bad triplicate, at that, because nobody is a “solipsist” as a practical matter. It’s just a pretentious insult. Not very philosophical, are you?

  169. “Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a cultured product of the Harlem Renaissance and had starred at UCLA, but the NBA draft sent him to Milwaukee of all random places.”
    Lew Alcindor was a cultured product of the Harlem Renaissance and had starred at UCLA, but the NBA draft sent him to Milwaukee of all random places. FIFY

    Alcindor didn’t change his name to “Kareem Abdul-Jabbar” until after he’d been in the league for a couple of seasons. And if anything, Wilt Chamberlain was more cultured, in terms of being civilized, if not educated, than Alcindor.

    As for his landing in Milwaukee, it was the worst team in the league, and thus got the first pick. Alcindor (with the help of old point guard Oscar Robertson and young small forward Bob Dandridge) immediately turned the Bucks into champions.

    What was suspicious was the league’s arranging of the deal that sent Alcindor/Jabbar to the Lakers, which left the Bucks in oblivion for generations, and created (as was foreseeable) a dynasty in L.A.

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