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Is Physiognomy Real?
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Great 19th Century novelists tended to be true believers in the saying Physiognomy Is Real, judging from how much verbiage they devoted to describing their characters’ looks. How accurate these old perceptions were I can’t say. But we still collectively have some of these ideas, even if we are not supposed to.

For example, the Movie Star vs. Rock Star polarity can be illustrated with famous actors. Tom Cruise’s square-jawed conventional handsomeness makes him an obvious prototype of movie star looks. And Cruise’s impressive competence at repeatedly delivering pretty good movies over an enormous span of time suggests that he really is as competent at his job (starring in movies that make at least $100 million) as he looks. I presume that Cruise is more or less the CEO of Tom Cruise movies, and he tends to deliver like a good CEO delivering another year of increased earnings per share.

In contrast, Johnny Depp, of the high cheekbones and delicate jaw, came to Hollywood in 1979 to be a rock star, a not unreasonable ambition due to how much he looked like numerous 1970s rock stars.

Rock stars tend to start as delicate, artistic, high-cheekboned, not terribly masculine heterosexuals who drive young girls wild. (How many burly rock singers have their been? The singer in Smashmouth, and probably some country rockers. But the classic rock band frontman is wiry.)

The youngest girls tend to go for the boy band practice boyfriend types like The Beatles in 1964, while the slightly older ones tend to go for the leering, concupiscent Rolling Stones in 1965 types. Tom Wolfe wrote in the mid-1960s about a Rolling Stone concert:

The five Rolling Stones, from England …, are modeled after The Beatles, only more lower class deformed. … The girls have Their Experience. They stand up on their seats. They begin to ululate, even between songs. The look on their faces! Rapturous agony! There, right up there, under the sulphur lights, that is them. God, they’re right there! Mick Jagger takes the microphone with his tabescent [emaciated] hands and puts his huge head against it, opens his giblet lips and begins to sing … with the voice of a bull Negro.

The classic rock star look is often a weird combination of pretty and grotesque, like Steven Tyler of Aerosmith.

But to be/stay a huge star, you need male fans. The young girl audience isn’t loyal. There is always somebody new. So rock stars often butch up their acts: Springsteen as working man, Petty as redneck, Strummer as Kiplingesque soldier of fortune.

Springsteen has admitted he isn’t much like his stage character. That his dad he’s playing.

To get back to the movie star-rock star distinction using actors … But music didn’t happen for Johnny Depp, while acting did. Eventually he got cast in the 21 Jump Street TV show, which attracted a lot of teenage girl fans. He turned out to be a surprisingly talented actor, who took on a weird range of parts, the opposite of Cruise in terms of career development.

But huge fame didn’t happen for him until The Pirates of the Caribbean franchise in which he played a pirate as an aging Rolling Stone, a creative leap in grasping the cultural continuity between the pseudo-aristocratic foppishness of both 17th pirates and 20th Centuries rock stars. Lately, however, Depp’s inspirations haven’t caught the public fancy and his star has dimmed.

Brad Pitt falls in-between Cruise and Depp on the handsome vs. pretty scale and also on the competent vs. artistic scale. Pitt has chosen a wide variety of roles, often playing against type, with some impressive successes (e.g., his lunatic in Terry Gilliam’s Twelve Monkeys), and others where it didn’t happen. This year, Quentin Tarantino created a role for Pitt in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood that, presumably, Pitt could have played all along — Steve McQueen’s rightful heir — which Pitt knocked out of the park.

Once Upon a Time is an interesting reversal of the usual where a movie star takes a pay cut to subordinate himself to a famous director’s vision (e.g., Tom Cruise in Stanley Kubrick’s Eyes Wide Shut). Instead, Tarantino, as The World’s Greatest Fan, is subordinating his own (often distasteful) quirks to creating dream roles for movie stars.

 
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  1. It seems to me Tom Cruise might have benefited from having that deviated septum of his addressed. He speaks as if his nose is always stuffed up.

  2. When I saw Brad Pitt in Twelve Monkeys, I wondered if he got his inspiration from Dennis Hopper’s character in Apocalypse Now.

    Crazy Brad:

    Crazy Dennis:

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    And in turn, Pitt’s performance inspired Mr. Peepers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK82bEEFPck
    , @Oddsbodkins
    Every tenth aging hippie boomer reminds me of that guy. They are a type.
    , @SimpleSong
    Terry Gilliam's movies seem to hold up quite well. Brazil in particular turned out to be a damned prophecy. I've always really liked Brad Pitt in 12 monkeys; he didn't seem like a natural choice but I can't imagine anybody else in the role now.
  3. Though not explicitly stated, physiogomy is a big thing in latin culture. A common expression is “tiene cara de [blank]”. This person has the face a [fill-in-the-blank]. Ie: a crook, a saint, a mischievousness character etc.

    My suspicion has been that since latin cultures tend to be more low-trust than anglo-saxon ones, this evolved as a survival mechanism of sorts. Being able to discern if someone is going to harm you or rip you off would obviously come in handy.

    • Agree: slumber_j
    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
    Cara de pija-- ¿verdad?
    , @bomag
    Gringos must have the face of one who needs his stuff and heritage expropriated.
  4. • Replies: @Not Raul
    If you can't trust anonymous Reddit posts, what can you trust?
    , @bomag
    One thing the internet has taught me is that there is no shortage of people anxious to promote practices that damage society.
    , @J.Ross
    Pedophilia normalized as Richard Stallman is forced out, rightist twitterers and youtubers censored while pedophiles and terrorists are not: this and other examples hopefully shows that sexual libertinism is a lie. Lefties always want it both ways, their talk about freedom and acceptance is just angling for a better position from which to attack.
  5. Did Heartiste ever resurface?

    • Replies: @Allen
    He posts on Gab: https://gab.com/Heartiste
    and archives of the site are here: https://heartiste.org/
    so far no new site though
    , @Jeff
    He's a regular commenter/poster on gab
  6. @Buzz Mohawk
    When I saw Brad Pitt in Twelve Monkeys, I wondered if he got his inspiration from Dennis Hopper's character in Apocalypse Now.

    Crazy Brad:

    https://youtu.be/ioBueVTZ0RM?t=73

    Crazy Dennis:

    https://youtu.be/1kqFwVuQ-Hg?t=201

    And in turn, Pitt’s performance inspired Mr. Peepers.

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Watching them now, one can see how the two scenes I posted are the same: A protagonist on a mission enters a strange world, meets a crazy guide, and looks around at all the weirdness. They really are the same scene.
    , @Sam Malone
    God almighty, I loathe Saturday Night Live. And especially Chris Katan.
  7. Depp obviously became more famous with Pirates of the Caribbean, but I remember him being very popular (especially with girls) in high school a few years before it came out on the basis of his Tim Burton films.

    He’s basically been #cancelled since the Amber Herd accusations.

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    Yeah he was a big celebrity/star before that. The Pirates role wouldn't have worked if he had been B-list. That film did catapult him to the A++ list though.

    They've tried cancelling Johnny but he's one of those who are too big to fail, he's still getting work although in star supporting roles like in the Fantastic Beasts movies, similarly to Will Smith, who didn't endure a scandal but whose popularity declined. In fact being cast in showy, high profile supporting roles in big franchise films seems to be the go-to strategy for declining movie superstars nowadays. Julianne Moore and Nicole Kidman have done it too recently in Hunger Games and Aquaman, respectively.
    , @bored identity
    Besides being major Hollywood creeps, Baldwin, Carrey, and Depp are also equally deranged in their pathetic belief how volunteering for Trumpshawnk Redemption will eventually get them off the MeToo Hook.

    In comparison, one could say that Woody Allen's spine is made of steel.
  8. Call the riffer of big guitars
    The cheekbonular one, and bid him whip
    In kitschy cuts concupiscent chords

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That's pretty funny. Stephen King quoted from the original in Salem's Lot.
    , @slumber_j
    Let the wenches dawdle.

    I gave my son the original to memorize for his mandatory school recitation last year, because it's funny and has a great title etc.--then suddenly worried that "wench" would be a problem. He substituted "A Postcard from the Volcano," which may be my absolute favorite Wallace Stevens poem, and crushed it. He smeared it with the gold of the opulent sun, you might say.

    Further, unrelated comments:

    --Brad Pitt is reliably (according to credible people I know who know him a bit) supposed to be really dim. And he's a very good actor. In tandem, these two facts are further proof that acting ability is strangely unrelated to anything above the most rudimentary intelligence.

    --Johnny Depp's appeal in the 21 Jump Street era extended to women in their late twenties too: my older then-girlfriend spotted him in Von's in those days and got pretty excited. I had no idea who she was talking about.


    The classic rock star look is often a weird combination of pretty and grotesque
     
    --Cf. Axl Rose, who looks like a mutant redhead male version of a recently deceased ex-girlfriend of mine--back when she was young and pretty and not yet dead.
  9. Some descriptions from Dashiell Hammett’s The Maltese Falcon:

    Samuel Spade’s jaw was long and bony, his chin a jutting v under the more flexible v of his mouth. His nostrils curved back to make another, smaller, v. His yellow-grey eyes were horizontal. The v motif was picked up again by thickish brows rising outward from twin creases above a hooked nose, and his pale brown hair grew down from high flat temples in a point on his forehead. He looked rather pleasantly like a blond satan.

    -Sam Spade

    The fat man was flabbily fat with bulbous pink cheeks and lips and chins and neck, with a great soft egg of a belly that was all his torso, and pendant cones for arms and legs. As he advanced to meet Spade all his bulbs rose and shook and fell separately with each step, in the manner of clustered soap-bubbles not yet released from the pipe through which they had been blown. His eyes, made small by fat puffs around them, were dark and sleek. Dark ringlets thinly covered his broad scalp.

    -The Fat Man, Caspar Gutman

    Mr. Joel Cairo was a small-boned dark man of medium height. His hair was black and smooth and very glossy. His features were Levantine. A square-cut ruby, its sides paralleled by four baguette diamonds, gleamed against the deep green of his cravat. His black coat, cut tight to narrow shoulders, flared a little over slightly plump hips. His trousers fitted his round legs more snugly than was the current fashion. The uppers of his patent-leather shoes were hidden by fawn spats. He held a black derby hat in a chamois-gloved hand and came towards Spade with short, mincing, bobbing steps. The fragrance of chypre came with him.

    -Joel Cairo

    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
    Donald Westlake (writing as Richard Stark) gives a good part of a page describing Parker physically in the first of those novels, The Hunter. Maybe as a pastiche to Hammett, an obvious influence?
  10. It certainly doesn’t strike me as being impossible – many genes have multiple effects on development, and there’s no reason why some of genes that affect brain development aren’t also affecting the development of facial anatomy. As an example, some children with genetic mental disabilities also have obvious facial anomalies.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    “As an example, some children with genetic mental disabilities also have obvious facial anomalies.”

    Some get to be famous...

    https://deadlymovies.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/richard-brooker-jason-f13-1982.jpg

    To be fair, if your told about a lake that has a 95% death rate for horny teenagers and you proceed, that’s not too smart.

  11. Well it does carry some truth to it. I don’t know too many fat people who are physically active and love the outdoors. (Then again, they might not do it because they’re fat. Knee pain and being a tempting snack for a bear.)

    • Replies: @JosephB
    I'm aware of one study that looked at the temporal ordering among children of becoming fat and becoming less active. They found kids became fat then became less active. As a fat kid, the result is not terribly surprising. I was moderately active -- well, ridiculously active on a modern scale: some biking, running through parks, pick up baseball and football, normal kid games like tag and flashlight tag, and some organized sports. Then I became fat and all those things were a lot harder and a lot less fun.

    (sorry, I can't remember the reference. It was in Taubes Good Calories Bad Calories; if deeply curious I can track it down).
  12. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    And in turn, Pitt’s performance inspired Mr. Peepers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK82bEEFPck

    Watching them now, one can see how the two scenes I posted are the same: A protagonist on a mission enters a strange world, meets a crazy guide, and looks around at all the weirdness. They really are the same scene.

  13. Cruise is not classically good looking. He has a weird nose, and his front teeth are fucked up (one of his maxillary central incisors lines up with his nose: once you see that you can’t unsee it). It’s a meme now…

    That said (and nohomo): Matthew McConaughey also has skew-whiff front teeth, and he’s certainly a classically goodlookin’ rooster. Probably in the top 3 sets of white male facial planes in showbiz.

    The dude who plays Captain America is probably the all-comers winner, in my view. He’s like Ryan Reynolds with better teeth and lower body fat.

    Brad Pitt was absolutely amazing in “Snatch” and “12 Monkeys”. Depp was perfect in “The Libertine”.

    Cruise has had some really good sci-fi roles: Vanilla Sky, Minority Report, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow… those are under-rated.

    • Replies: @Clifford Brown
    Cruise is extremely attractive and has an almost insurmountable drive, focus and energy level. Cruise possesses an inhuman level of charisma in person. He stands out and draws people in like few others.

    You want to be on his team.
    , @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    Ok but he's like 55 now. 90s Tom Cruise was, as they say, a SNACK.

    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMDZmNTFiNTUt[email protected]._V1_.jpg

    , @jon

    Cruise is not classically good looking.
     
    Cruise is literally the go-to example of the perfect "Golden Ratio" face:

    https://thingsthatmakesensetome.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/beauty-lies-in-the-eyes-of-the-beholder/
    , @jon

    his front teeth are fucked up
     
    And those things definitely look capped - odd that they didn't try to straighten things out a little better.
    , @Anonymous
    I thought Cruise did an underappreciated job in The Color of Money. He looked much smaller and more childish than in Top Gun, etc. And did a good job of portraying a bit of a goof. Rather than just being Tom Cruise again (as in Oblivion, Jack Reacher, etc.)
    , @guest
    Cruise is weird-looking, but you don't notice when he's smiling. Which is often. Somehow his smile makes it look normal.
  14. Also, I think you’re conflating physiognomy and phrenology. Physiognomy is more about a person’s expressions and facial features and the like. Phrenology is a bit more about head shape etc. Good example here:

  15. Hey , do you think Physiognomy can reveal anything concerning the Russiagate conspiracy?

    Tom Fitton, Judicial Watch (opponent of the Russiagate conspiracy)

    Congressman Jerry Nadler, Democratic Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee

    Peter Strzok, FBI Deputy Assistant Director

    By the way, many on The Left think the Peter Strzok smirk was a total own of his Republican inquisitors.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Never underestimate the power of physical jealousy.

    https://gdb.rferl.org/0B0A7236-FFF0-4248-8010-E56703A7F77B_w1023_s.jpg

    https://regularrightguy.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/david-brock.jpg

    If that isn’t a face (bottom obviously) full of High School PTSD then I don’t know what is.

    BTW that bottom photo is David Brock.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    By the way, many on The Left think the Peter Strzok smirk was a total own of his Republican inquisitors.

    Also, to my surprise, many on the Left think Andrew Cuomo's flip-out when someone called him Fredo was a great victory for him.
  16. “For example, the Movie Star vs. Rock Star polarity can be illustrated with famous actors. Tom Cruise’s square-jawed conventional handsomeness makes him an obvious prototype of movie star looks”

    I am sorry to disappoint @steve_sailer but tom got it through his surgeon, not genetics…

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    Whoever did Tom Cruise's jawline and whoever remade Bella Hadid's entire face deserve Nobel Prizes or Oscars or something.
    , @Charon
    Always thought cruise was creepy.
    Don't know what Steve sees in him!
    , @RichardTaylor
    Tom Cruise may just be aging normally. The jaw changes as this shows. Tom just happened to age into a more mainly face, which happens:

    https://socratic.org/questions/how-does-facial-bone-structure-change-with-age


    https://d2jmvrsizmvf4x.cloudfront.net/1mkcrvKgRBaB1skkHbb1_8665.jpg
    , @Altai
    A lot of that looks like normal aging, a lot of men get a sag around their eyelids, Ptosis, as they get older and for men who don't gain weight, the skin can seem to 'cling' more firmly to the face.
  17. I don’t think this is about the performers or their competencies as much as it is about what the audience expects subconsciously.

    The audience doesn’t want a lead actor who looks like mick jagger even though they can like jagger in other contexts. Lead actors are expected to be handsome, and usually not too pretty looking. Not always though as Depp is about as pretty as a man can get.

    As for why the audience wants jagger to sing but not act, singing is sort of a feminine pursuit. It’s a lovely and sweet thing to do. So male singers in order to exhude masculinity have to make their voices gritty and contorted and look gritty and contorted to match.

    • Replies: @Altai
    I suppose it's context too. We're not looking at a performers face so intently either in concert or in music videos, in film the closeup is king.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    The actor - rocker gap is the Olympian - Chthonic gap. Or Apollo and Bacchus if you like.

    Why we want Apollo onscreen but Bacchus on the radio is perhaps a deep question. Or perhaps not. We can all enjoy Bacchanals, but we're not so happy to have people look at them. Maybe it's as simple as the visual medium not transmitting the essence of Bacchus well because we have to look and analyze while watching.
  18. The five Rolling Stones, from England …, are modeled after The Beatles, only more lower class deformed.

    The Beatles were working class boys, and the Stones solidly middle class. They were both playing against type. The pop bands tended to come from the gritty North, while the bluesy ones were in soft suburban London.

    …the opposite of Cruise in terms of career development.

    Depp wanted to be a rocker, but Cruise considered becoming a priest. (Father Mapother. Really.) That’s about as opposite “career development” you can get within the law.

    Brad Pitt falls in-between Cruise and Depp on the handsome vs. pretty scale…

    Pitt just seems like Rob Lowe with a dye job. Didn’t he show up right after Lowe’s career troughed following that Georgia hotel room antic?

    Brad Pitt falls in-between Cruise and Depp

    Don’t give the Weinsteins or Wachowskis any ideas.

    • Replies: @bored identity
    bored identity strongly believes that Uncle Sailer missed important role of globo-homo handlers* ( *aka The Beatles Lost Years in Hamburg ) who coach-casted all those post-adolescent derelicts to the 'organic' Rise of The Planet of The Androgynes.

    Same goes for Jagger and Bowie.


    Female taste in Beauty & Celebrity Dept. was made with manufactured consent from it's early beggining.
    , @Ancient Briton
    John Lennon grew up in Allerton, a very nice leafy suburb of Liverpool. Ringo came from the much grittier working-class downtown area of Dingle.
  19. @Kratoklastes
    Cruise is not classically good looking. He has a weird nose, and his front teeth are fucked up (one of his maxillary central incisors lines up with his nose: once you see that you can’t unsee it). It’s a meme now...

    https://i.imgur.com/kIKUTr9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    That said (and nohomo): Matthew McConaughey also has skew-whiff front teeth, and he’s certainly a classically goodlookin’ rooster. Probably in the top 3 sets of white male facial planes in showbiz.

    The dude who plays Captain America is probably the all-comers winner, in my view. He’s like Ryan Reynolds with better teeth and lower body fat.


    Brad Pitt was absolutely amazing in “Snatch” and “12 Monkeys”. Depp was perfect in “The Libertine”.

    Cruise has had some really good sci-fi roles: Vanilla Sky, Minority Report, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow... those are under-rated.

    Cruise is extremely attractive and has an almost insurmountable drive, focus and energy level. Cruise possesses an inhuman level of charisma in person. He stands out and draws people in like few others.

    You want to be on his team.

    • Agree: Autochthon
  20. @Anon
    Did Heartiste ever resurface?

    He posts on Gab: https://gab.com/Heartiste
    and archives of the site are here: https://heartiste.org/
    so far no new site though

    • Replies: @Thinking in Code
    Has Gab been shut down or something? I keep trying to register and get the message: "This page isn’t working. If the problem continues, contact the site owner. HTTP ERROR 422"

    I've tried using Brave, Firefox, and Chrome. My computer is kind of old, Windows 7 -- could that be the problem?

    Thanks for any light you can shed on this.
  21. I agree with your assessments of Tom, Brad, and Johnny. I would say the ultimate combination of handsome, pretty, competent, AND artistic is Leonardo DiCaprio, who for that reason is probably the ultimate movie star of the last two decades.

    “But to be/stay a huge star, you need male fans. The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    I don’t necessarily agree with this. Look at Madonna and Taylor Swift, if they manage to evolve without losing their essence and occupy a unique (or hard to replicate) yet widely appealing niche, they can last a very long time at a huge level of success.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    Let me make that more specific: "The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers." Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.

  22. @Simonini
    Depp obviously became more famous with Pirates of the Caribbean, but I remember him being very popular (especially with girls) in high school a few years before it came out on the basis of his Tim Burton films.

    He's basically been #cancelled since the Amber Herd accusations.

    Yeah he was a big celebrity/star before that. The Pirates role wouldn’t have worked if he had been B-list. That film did catapult him to the A++ list though.

    They’ve tried cancelling Johnny but he’s one of those who are too big to fail, he’s still getting work although in star supporting roles like in the Fantastic Beasts movies, similarly to Will Smith, who didn’t endure a scandal but whose popularity declined. In fact being cast in showy, high profile supporting roles in big franchise films seems to be the go-to strategy for declining movie superstars nowadays. Julianne Moore and Nicole Kidman have done it too recently in Hunger Games and Aquaman, respectively.

  23. @Kratoklastes
    Cruise is not classically good looking. He has a weird nose, and his front teeth are fucked up (one of his maxillary central incisors lines up with his nose: once you see that you can’t unsee it). It’s a meme now...

    https://i.imgur.com/kIKUTr9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    That said (and nohomo): Matthew McConaughey also has skew-whiff front teeth, and he’s certainly a classically goodlookin’ rooster. Probably in the top 3 sets of white male facial planes in showbiz.

    The dude who plays Captain America is probably the all-comers winner, in my view. He’s like Ryan Reynolds with better teeth and lower body fat.


    Brad Pitt was absolutely amazing in “Snatch” and “12 Monkeys”. Depp was perfect in “The Libertine”.

    Cruise has had some really good sci-fi roles: Vanilla Sky, Minority Report, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow... those are under-rated.

    Ok but he’s like 55 now. 90s Tom Cruise was, as they say, a SNACK.

  24. @HonestBl
    "For example, the Movie Star vs. Rock Star polarity can be illustrated with famous actors. Tom Cruise’s square-jawed conventional handsomeness makes him an obvious prototype of movie star looks"

    I am sorry to disappoint @steve_sailer but tom got it through his surgeon, not genetics...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ihge-4Jow

    Whoever did Tom Cruise’s jawline and whoever remade Bella Hadid’s entire face deserve Nobel Prizes or Oscars or something.

  25. @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    I agree with your assessments of Tom, Brad, and Johnny. I would say the ultimate combination of handsome, pretty, competent, AND artistic is Leonardo DiCaprio, who for that reason is probably the ultimate movie star of the last two decades.

    "But to be/stay a huge star, you need male fans. The young girl audience isn’t loyal."

    I don't necessarily agree with this. Look at Madonna and Taylor Swift, if they manage to evolve without losing their essence and occupy a unique (or hard to replicate) yet widely appealing niche, they can last a very long time at a huge level of success.

    “The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    Let me make that more specific: “The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers.” Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    “The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    Let me make that more specific: “The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers.” Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.
     
    For enduring success, entertainers have to appeal to their own sex.

    Males homosexuals are an exception to the rule, as they love to idolize female singers and movie stars: Judy Garland, Marilyn Monroe, etc.
    , @peterike

    Let me make that more specific: “The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers.” Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.
     
    That's because girls outgrow their crushes. Young Makayla may be in love with Johnny Bravo when she's 11. By the time she's 13 or 14, she's disgusted with her old self and disdains the crushes of her youth. She moves on.

    Meanwhile, Johnny Bravo is old news to the upcoming 11 year old set, so they look for the next set of heart throbs. All cleverly packaged by Hollywood, of course, and designed to age-out in a few years. Just when they start wanting more money.

    What's more interesting, and unsettling, are the young girl actresses who get idolized by other young girls. Like that Hannah Montana girl Miley Cyrus (the last one I was really aware of). Disney has become a Jewish whore factory that turns sweet young Goy girls into tramps and sluts for public consumption. Always a new one in the works. I don't know which Goy girl is currently being exploited.
    , @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    Agreed there. Justin Bieber had to start acting like a rapper and associate himself with trendy DJs to remain popular and get men to listen to his music (it worked).

    Also I would say that does not apply to older women. There are plenty of male R&B singers past their prime, for example who still enjoy large and primarily female followings and can tour as a result (R. Kelly was probably the best example...).

  26. @HonestBl
    "For example, the Movie Star vs. Rock Star polarity can be illustrated with famous actors. Tom Cruise’s square-jawed conventional handsomeness makes him an obvious prototype of movie star looks"

    I am sorry to disappoint @steve_sailer but tom got it through his surgeon, not genetics...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ihge-4Jow

    Always thought cruise was creepy.
    Don’t know what Steve sees in him!

    • Agree: kikz
    • Replies: @EdwardM

    Don’t know what Steve sees in him!
     
    Success. There has been no movie star as reliably bankable over the past 30-plus years. He has rarely made an unsuccessful movie. His roles may be narrower than those of other major stars but always showcase him well. And he has control over production most of the time.
  27. @Steve Sailer
    "The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    Let me make that more specific: "The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers." Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.

    “The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    Let me make that more specific: “The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers.” Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.

    For enduring success, entertainers have to appeal to their own sex.

    Males homosexuals are an exception to the rule, as they love to idolize female singers and movie stars: Judy Garland, Marilyn Monroe, etc.

  28. @Anon
    Did Heartiste ever resurface?

    He’s a regular commenter/poster on gab

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    So that's a "no." Unfortunate.
  29. Richard Feynman’s physiognomy helped him get into the physics department at Princeton University.

    From Wikipedia:

    In 1939, Feynman … attained a perfect score on the graduate school entrance exams to Princeton University in physics —an unprecedented feat—and an outstanding score in mathematics, but did poorly on the history and English portions.

    The head of the physics department there, Henry D. Smyth, had another concern, writing to Philip M. Morse to ask: “Is Feynman Jewish? We have no definite rule against Jews but have to keep their proportion in our department reasonably small because of the difficulty of placing them.”

    Morse conceded that Feynman was indeed Jewish, but reassured Smyth that Feynman’s “physiognomy and manner, however, show no trace of this characteristic”.

    • LOL: Aft
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Morse conceded that Feynman was indeed Jewish, but reassured Smyth that Feynman’s “physiognomy and manner, however, show no trace of this characteristic”.

    Morse must have been drunk as a Lord. Feynman's appearance and mannerisms are as Yiddish as could be , to say nothing of his Brooklynese .
  30. Is Physiognomy Real?

    Physiognomy Israel

    Israeli Start-up to Provide DHS With Facial Recognition Tech That Digs Up Character Traits

    Terrorist or pedophile? This start-up says it can out secrets by analyzing faces [washingtonpost.com]

    Faception said it’s already signed a contract with a homeland security agency to help identify terrorists. The company said its technology also can be used to identify everything from great poker players to extroverts, pedophiles, geniuses and white collar-criminals.

    “We understand the human much better than other humans understand each other,” said Faception chief executive Shai Gilboa. “Our personality is determined by our DNA and reflected in our face. It’s a kind of signal.”

    Faception has built 15 different classifiers, which Gilboa said evaluate with 80 percent accuracy certain traits.

    Gilboa said he also serves as the company’s chief ethics officer and will never make his classifiers that predict negative traits available to the general public.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    So how does he define the general public?
    , @Harry Baldwin
    The company said its technology also can be used to identify everything from great poker players to extroverts, pedophiles, geniuses and white collar-criminals.

    Is the pedo-stache the tell?
  31. @PiltdownMan
    Richard Feynman's physiognomy helped him get into the physics department at Princeton University.

    From Wikipedia:


    In 1939, Feynman ... attained a perfect score on the graduate school entrance exams to Princeton University in physics —an unprecedented feat—and an outstanding score in mathematics, but did poorly on the history and English portions.

    The head of the physics department there, Henry D. Smyth, had another concern, writing to Philip M. Morse to ask: "Is Feynman Jewish? We have no definite rule against Jews but have to keep their proportion in our department reasonably small because of the difficulty of placing them."

    Morse conceded that Feynman was indeed Jewish, but reassured Smyth that Feynman's "physiognomy and manner, however, show no trace of this characteristic".
     
    https://i.imgur.com/HtyWgVD.jpg

    Morse conceded that Feynman was indeed Jewish, but reassured Smyth that Feynman’s “physiognomy and manner, however, show no trace of this characteristic”.

    Morse must have been drunk as a Lord. Feynman’s appearance and mannerisms are as Yiddish as could be , to say nothing of his Brooklynese .

    • Replies: @Jesse
    Morse was most likely trying to keep an utterly outstanding student from being rejected for his ethnicity. Smyth was hardly going to abandon a star student by the side of the road once he was there.
  32. @Buzz Mohawk
    When I saw Brad Pitt in Twelve Monkeys, I wondered if he got his inspiration from Dennis Hopper's character in Apocalypse Now.

    Crazy Brad:

    https://youtu.be/ioBueVTZ0RM?t=73

    Crazy Dennis:

    https://youtu.be/1kqFwVuQ-Hg?t=201

    Every tenth aging hippie boomer reminds me of that guy. They are a type.

  33. Feynman had that delicate androgynous Jewish face, like Jared Kushner, which as it ages can become sly and demonic (see Sen. Schumer). Did Feynman have any daughters? They would have been pretty.

    Tom Cruise is a small man, nothing wrong with that in my book, but now his body looks distorted by too much musculature for his frame, possibly the result of steroids. That might account for the amazing muscular development of his jaw, too. I cannot figure out how plastic surgeons could insert a massive new jawbone in his head. Is that even possible? Seriously, you don’t realize how much facial muscularity is a subtle marker for testosterone. Or steroids.

    Rock stars all seem to be slender wiry men with muscular faces too and narrow hips. It never occurred to me that they were in any way feminine or pretty. Plenty of bikers look like that too. Men now seem obsessed with being huge, like Arnold Swartzenegger, but those pecs always looked like boobs to me. Men do not have a single clue what women find attractive.

  34. @Buzz Mohawk
    When I saw Brad Pitt in Twelve Monkeys, I wondered if he got his inspiration from Dennis Hopper's character in Apocalypse Now.

    Crazy Brad:

    https://youtu.be/ioBueVTZ0RM?t=73

    Crazy Dennis:

    https://youtu.be/1kqFwVuQ-Hg?t=201

    Terry Gilliam’s movies seem to hold up quite well. Brazil in particular turned out to be a damned prophecy. I’ve always really liked Brad Pitt in 12 monkeys; he didn’t seem like a natural choice but I can’t imagine anybody else in the role now.

  35. @syonredux
    Some descriptions from Dashiell Hammett's The Maltese Falcon:

    Samuel Spade's jaw was long and bony, his chin a jutting v under the more flexible v of his mouth. His nostrils curved back to make another, smaller, v. His yellow-grey eyes were horizontal. The v motif was picked up again by thickish brows rising outward from twin creases above a hooked nose, and his pale brown hair grew down from high flat temples in a point on his forehead. He looked rather pleasantly like a blond satan.
     
    -Sam Spade

    The fat man was flabbily fat with bulbous pink cheeks and lips and chins and neck, with a great soft egg of a belly that was all his torso, and pendant cones for arms and legs. As he advanced to meet Spade all his bulbs rose and shook and fell separately with each step, in the manner of clustered soap-bubbles not yet released from the pipe through which they had been blown. His eyes, made small by fat puffs around them, were dark and sleek. Dark ringlets thinly covered his broad scalp.
     
    -The Fat Man, Caspar Gutman

    Mr. Joel Cairo was a small-boned dark man of medium height. His hair was black and smooth and very glossy. His features were Levantine. A square-cut ruby, its sides paralleled by four baguette diamonds, gleamed against the deep green of his cravat. His black coat, cut tight to narrow shoulders, flared a little over slightly plump hips. His trousers fitted his round legs more snugly than was the current fashion. The uppers of his patent-leather shoes were hidden by fawn spats. He held a black derby hat in a chamois-gloved hand and came towards Spade with short, mincing, bobbing steps. The fragrance of chypre came with him.

     

    -Joel Cairo

    Donald Westlake (writing as Richard Stark) gives a good part of a page describing Parker physically in the first of those novels, The Hunter. Maybe as a pastiche to Hammett, an obvious influence?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3", blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil's face, etc

    https://cdn.britannica.com/44/11244-050-9BA77281/Dashiell-Hammett.jpg

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

  36. @Daniel Williams
    Donald Westlake (writing as Richard Stark) gives a good part of a page describing Parker physically in the first of those novels, The Hunter. Maybe as a pastiche to Hammett, an obvious influence?

    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3″, blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil’s face, etc

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
    Hmm. He looked like Geert Wilders in a disguise. Or, like, on the lam.
    , @syonredux

    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3″, blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil’s face, etc
     
    Interesting to note how Hammett's earlier Continental Op (the protagonist in Red Harvest, The Dain Curse, and several short stories) was squat and heavy-set, the polar opposite of Spade.

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.
     
    In physical terms, completely wrong for the part....But Bogie still managed to convey the essence of the character. Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lore, in contrast, could have stepped right out of the pages of the book:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aogWdNKef2o&t=6s



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGuNGXmQZSE
    , @Red Pill Angel
    Hammett resembles a slightly better-looking Trey Gowdy. Gowdy always seemed like the Representative from the state of Slytherin.
    , @Ian M.
    Looks a bit like a younger Edward Norton.

    , @Desiderius
    Looks like that Steve Sailer fellow.

    Pitt’s already been McQueen’s successor for thirty years. Cf. Thelma and Louise, the Ocean pics, et. al.

    Depp was playing Jack Shaftoe in the Pirates movies.
  37. @Steve Sailer
    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3", blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil's face, etc

    https://cdn.britannica.com/44/11244-050-9BA77281/Dashiell-Hammett.jpg

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

    Hmm. He looked like Geert Wilders in a disguise. Or, like, on the lam.

  38. The phrase “physiognomy is real” is almost a tautology. If you read it as an affirmation, as if physiognomy were some hypothesized thing that may or may not exist but does, then you miss the whole sense of it. It needs to be read as an equivalence; the “is” is the equality symbol between two related descriptions. Physiognomy is real….Physiognomy is the real….Physignomy is what’s real.

    Everything that is “real” has physiognomy. That is to say, it discloses its qualities in its acts of existence. This is what it means to be real. It should not be surprising, nor even controversial, that what a man is, is reflected in his manner of being. If it were not, then where would it be? It would not be an “is”; it would not exist. For there is no existence in general. To exist as this man means that the qualities of this man must be brought into being. Therefore physiognomy appears along with existence as its complement, materia signata quantitate.

    Understanding all this is crucial to any comprehension of race realism. The lack of such understanding is what has forced biology (the drag queen of the sciences) into the role as a crude substitute.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    biology (the drag queen of the sciences)

    That is a brilliant formulation.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    Ah, now I finally begin to see why you are against the HBD approach.
    Now that I see it, I see too that you are correct, at least insofar as your approach must come first; it is after all what we all see immediately, if we can see with any understanding at all. Physiognomy is being indeed.

    The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.

    Thus our disgust with the African, and our relative ease in the face of the Oriental: the first is close to wholly other, the second recognisably our own kind.
  39. @Steve Sailer
    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3", blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil's face, etc

    https://cdn.britannica.com/44/11244-050-9BA77281/Dashiell-Hammett.jpg

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3″, blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil’s face, etc

    Interesting to note how Hammett’s earlier Continental Op (the protagonist in Red Harvest, The Dain Curse, and several short stories) was squat and heavy-set, the polar opposite of Spade.

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

    In physical terms, completely wrong for the part….But Bogie still managed to convey the essence of the character. Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lore, in contrast, could have stepped right out of the pages of the book:

  40. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Is Physiognomy Real?

     

    Physiognomy Israel

    Israeli Start-up to Provide DHS With Facial Recognition Tech That Digs Up Character Traits


    Terrorist or pedophile? This start-up says it can out secrets by analyzing faces [washingtonpost.com]

    Faception said it’s already signed a contract with a homeland security agency to help identify terrorists. The company said its technology also can be used to identify everything from great poker players to extroverts, pedophiles, geniuses and white collar-criminals.

    “We understand the human much better than other humans understand each other,” said Faception chief executive Shai Gilboa. “Our personality is determined by our DNA and reflected in our face. It’s a kind of signal.”

    Faception has built 15 different classifiers, which Gilboa said evaluate with 80 percent accuracy certain traits.

    Gilboa said he also serves as the company’s chief ethics officer and will never make his classifiers that predict negative traits available to the general public.

     

    So how does he define the general public?

  41. How many burly rock singers have their been?

    Meatloaf.

    • Replies: @jon


    How many burly rock singers have their been?

     

    Meatloaf.
     
    Danzig for the win
  42. @Charon
    Always thought cruise was creepy.
    Don't know what Steve sees in him!

    Don’t know what Steve sees in him!

    Success. There has been no movie star as reliably bankable over the past 30-plus years. He has rarely made an unsuccessful movie. His roles may be narrower than those of other major stars but always showcase him well. And he has control over production most of the time.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Tom Hanks comes to mind as comparably talented, charismatic, consistent, and successful.

    Perhaps being named "Tom" is a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite to this level of achievement. (Sorry, Tom Arnold....)
    , @Twodees Partain
    " And he has control over production most of the time."

    That's obviously true in the case of his two Jack Reacher films. Imagine any other jockey-sized actor being cast as a 6'4" behemoth like the Reacher character.
  43. @Jeff
    He's a regular commenter/poster on gab

    So that’s a “no.” Unfortunate.

  44. @kaganovitch
    Morse conceded that Feynman was indeed Jewish, but reassured Smyth that Feynman’s “physiognomy and manner, however, show no trace of this characteristic”.

    Morse must have been drunk as a Lord. Feynman's appearance and mannerisms are as Yiddish as could be , to say nothing of his Brooklynese .

    Morse was most likely trying to keep an utterly outstanding student from being rejected for his ethnicity. Smyth was hardly going to abandon a star student by the side of the road once he was there.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    Sounds right.
  45. An excerpt from the Wikipedia article on “The Duke” in “Stagecoach”:

    “Cast member Louise Platt credited Ford as saying at the time that Wayne would become the biggest star ever because of his appeal as the archetypal “everyman”.”

    I think there’s a lot of truth in Platt’s observation. And isn’t it a loss for us all to have aspiring actors remodelling their faces to produce bland uniformity? For every Tyrone Power you have to see forty or fifty Andy Devines or Jack Elams and the like.

  46. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    O/T, but you knew this was coming:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/ohio-college-normalizes-pedophilia-sexual-orientation

    And this:
    https://summit.news/2019/09/11/new-sexual-fetish-couples-getting-pregnant-and-having-multiple-abortions/

    It's so hard to keep one's chin up.

    If you can’t trust anonymous Reddit posts, what can you trust?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Are you implying the photographs of the slides being shown in a classroom, included in the student's post, are some elaborate, staged hoax?
  47. @EdwardM

    Don’t know what Steve sees in him!
     
    Success. There has been no movie star as reliably bankable over the past 30-plus years. He has rarely made an unsuccessful movie. His roles may be narrower than those of other major stars but always showcase him well. And he has control over production most of the time.

    Tom Hanks comes to mind as comparably talented, charismatic, consistent, and successful.

    Perhaps being named “Tom” is a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite to this level of achievement. (Sorry, Tom Arnold….)

  48. @Not Raul
    If you can't trust anonymous Reddit posts, what can you trust?

    Are you implying the photographs of the slides being shown in a classroom, included in the student’s post, are some elaborate, staged hoax?

    • Replies: @Jesse
    It's happened before. There were pictures going around a few years back, of a classroom full of teens and a teacher graphically demonstrating sex acts, including rectal intercourse.

    It kept being brought up as an example of Sex Ed Gone Mad. Until someone pointed out that it was a Swedish comedy sketch gently poking fun at Swedish education. At which point everyone shut up and pretended nothing ever happened.
  49. “Plow Versus Hoe”?

    “Bowed by the weight of centuries he leans
    Upon his hoe and gazes on the ground,
    The emptiness of ages in his face,
    And on his back the burden of the world.
    Who made him dead to rapture and despair,
    A thing that grieves not and that never hopes.
    Stolid and stunned, a brother to the ox?
    Who loosened and let down this brutal jaw?
    Whose was the hand that slanted back this brow?
    Whose breath blew out the light within this brain?”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_with_the_Hoe

  50. @Kronos
    Well it does carry some truth to it. I don’t know too many fat people who are physically active and love the outdoors. (Then again, they might not do it because they’re fat. Knee pain and being a tempting snack for a bear.)


    https://youtu.be/u0HJ68laP1k

    I’m aware of one study that looked at the temporal ordering among children of becoming fat and becoming less active. They found kids became fat then became less active. As a fat kid, the result is not terribly surprising. I was moderately active — well, ridiculously active on a modern scale: some biking, running through parks, pick up baseball and football, normal kid games like tag and flashlight tag, and some organized sports. Then I became fat and all those things were a lot harder and a lot less fun.

    (sorry, I can’t remember the reference. It was in Taubes Good Calories Bad Calories; if deeply curious I can track it down).

    • Replies: @Kronos
    It’s a superb book. It’s still hard to believe how badly the US researchers got the science wrong. (German scientists are the best for sure.) The US might've saved hundreds of billions of dollars in obesity costs (hypertension, diebeties, etc...) if we extracted the German nutritionists as well as the rocket scientists.

    Taubes book “The Case Against Sugar” scared me straight on a few things.

    But physical fitness (higher testosterone) can create quite a few pissed off angry jocks. I’m sure obesity effects mood.

  51. • Replies: @Charon
    Very cool chart, if not very accurate.

    Then again, art was usually stylized and photography still a ways in the future..
    , @Old Palo Altan
    One can do something very similar with the popes, only it's suddenly way worse.
    , @keypusher
    More like "the decline of realistic portraiture during late antiquity." Also, as far as I'm aware we have no idea what most of the third century emperors looked like, and I doubt we have contemporaneous images for most of the rest.

    Where does that chart come from?
  52. @Anonymous
    Call the riffer of big guitars
    The cheekbonular one, and bid him whip
    In kitschy cuts concupiscent chords

    That’s pretty funny. Stephen King quoted from the original in Salem’s Lot.

  53. @Kratoklastes
    Cruise is not classically good looking. He has a weird nose, and his front teeth are fucked up (one of his maxillary central incisors lines up with his nose: once you see that you can’t unsee it). It’s a meme now...

    https://i.imgur.com/kIKUTr9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    That said (and nohomo): Matthew McConaughey also has skew-whiff front teeth, and he’s certainly a classically goodlookin’ rooster. Probably in the top 3 sets of white male facial planes in showbiz.

    The dude who plays Captain America is probably the all-comers winner, in my view. He’s like Ryan Reynolds with better teeth and lower body fat.


    Brad Pitt was absolutely amazing in “Snatch” and “12 Monkeys”. Depp was perfect in “The Libertine”.

    Cruise has had some really good sci-fi roles: Vanilla Sky, Minority Report, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow... those are under-rated.

    Cruise is not classically good looking.

    Cruise is literally the go-to example of the perfect “Golden Ratio” face:

    https://thingsthatmakesensetome.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/beauty-lies-in-the-eyes-of-the-beholder/

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    In that link, the illustration of Cruise's face looks like it has been made to fit the guidelines.
  54. @Kratoklastes
    Cruise is not classically good looking. He has a weird nose, and his front teeth are fucked up (one of his maxillary central incisors lines up with his nose: once you see that you can’t unsee it). It’s a meme now...

    https://i.imgur.com/kIKUTr9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    That said (and nohomo): Matthew McConaughey also has skew-whiff front teeth, and he’s certainly a classically goodlookin’ rooster. Probably in the top 3 sets of white male facial planes in showbiz.

    The dude who plays Captain America is probably the all-comers winner, in my view. He’s like Ryan Reynolds with better teeth and lower body fat.


    Brad Pitt was absolutely amazing in “Snatch” and “12 Monkeys”. Depp was perfect in “The Libertine”.

    Cruise has had some really good sci-fi roles: Vanilla Sky, Minority Report, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow... those are under-rated.

    his front teeth are fucked up

    And those things definitely look capped – odd that they didn’t try to straighten things out a little better.

  55. @JosephB
    I'm aware of one study that looked at the temporal ordering among children of becoming fat and becoming less active. They found kids became fat then became less active. As a fat kid, the result is not terribly surprising. I was moderately active -- well, ridiculously active on a modern scale: some biking, running through parks, pick up baseball and football, normal kid games like tag and flashlight tag, and some organized sports. Then I became fat and all those things were a lot harder and a lot less fun.

    (sorry, I can't remember the reference. It was in Taubes Good Calories Bad Calories; if deeply curious I can track it down).

    It’s a superb book. It’s still hard to believe how badly the US researchers got the science wrong. (German scientists are the best for sure.) The US might’ve saved hundreds of billions of dollars in obesity costs (hypertension, diebeties, etc…) if we extracted the German nutritionists as well as the rocket scientists.

    Taubes book “The Case Against Sugar” scared me straight on a few things.

    But physical fitness (higher testosterone) can create quite a few pissed off angry jocks. I’m sure obesity effects mood.

  56. @dvorak

    How many burly rock singers have their been?
     
    Meatloaf.

    How many burly rock singers have their been?

    Meatloaf.

    Danzig for the win

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Nah.

    Nobody comes close to the late Master Kilmeister.

    RIP Lemmy
  57. @Enochian
    It certainly doesn't strike me as being impossible - many genes have multiple effects on development, and there's no reason why some of genes that affect brain development aren't also affecting the development of facial anatomy. As an example, some children with genetic mental disabilities also have obvious facial anomalies.

    “As an example, some children with genetic mental disabilities also have obvious facial anomalies.”

    Some get to be famous…

    To be fair, if your told about a lake that has a 95% death rate for horny teenagers and you proceed, that’s not too smart.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    A quibble: are not "horny teenagers" a bit like "wet water" or a "divine god?" Yet the phrase is common....
  58. @Clifford Brown
    Hey , do you think Physiognomy can reveal anything concerning the Russiagate conspiracy?

    Tom Fitton, Judicial Watch (opponent of the Russiagate conspiracy)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D91BvXMWkAIwVE1.jpg

    Congressman Jerry Nadler, Democratic Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b5QIUfjQPZM/XTjnI79T3MI/AAAAAAABddc/D0wxkpIO2Mc0J1W3dS_8hugPseXJPknFQCLcBGAs/s1600/D07vSb3XgAEi0Ne.jpg

    Peter Strzok, FBI Deputy Assistant Director

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyeMztr9vp0

    By the way, many on The Left think the Peter Strzok smirk was a total own of his Republican inquisitors.

    Never underestimate the power of physical jealousy.

    If that isn’t a face (bottom obviously) full of High School PTSD then I don’t know what is.

    BTW that bottom photo is David Brock.

  59. The classic rock star look is often a weird combination of pretty and grotesque, like Steven Tyler of Aerosmith…

    But music didn’t happen for Johnny Depp.

    Now that you mention it, Depp’s Captain Jack Sparrow persona might actually make him a good candidate for a Steven Tyler biopic.

  60. @Clifford Brown
    Hey , do you think Physiognomy can reveal anything concerning the Russiagate conspiracy?

    Tom Fitton, Judicial Watch (opponent of the Russiagate conspiracy)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D91BvXMWkAIwVE1.jpg

    Congressman Jerry Nadler, Democratic Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b5QIUfjQPZM/XTjnI79T3MI/AAAAAAABddc/D0wxkpIO2Mc0J1W3dS_8hugPseXJPknFQCLcBGAs/s1600/D07vSb3XgAEi0Ne.jpg

    Peter Strzok, FBI Deputy Assistant Director

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyeMztr9vp0

    By the way, many on The Left think the Peter Strzok smirk was a total own of his Republican inquisitors.

    By the way, many on The Left think the Peter Strzok smirk was a total own of his Republican inquisitors.

    Also, to my surprise, many on the Left think Andrew Cuomo’s flip-out when someone called him Fredo was a great victory for him.

  61. @Hippopotamusdrome


    Is Physiognomy Real?

     

    Physiognomy Israel

    Israeli Start-up to Provide DHS With Facial Recognition Tech That Digs Up Character Traits


    Terrorist or pedophile? This start-up says it can out secrets by analyzing faces [washingtonpost.com]

    Faception said it’s already signed a contract with a homeland security agency to help identify terrorists. The company said its technology also can be used to identify everything from great poker players to extroverts, pedophiles, geniuses and white collar-criminals.

    “We understand the human much better than other humans understand each other,” said Faception chief executive Shai Gilboa. “Our personality is determined by our DNA and reflected in our face. It’s a kind of signal.”

    Faception has built 15 different classifiers, which Gilboa said evaluate with 80 percent accuracy certain traits.

    Gilboa said he also serves as the company’s chief ethics officer and will never make his classifiers that predict negative traits available to the general public.

     

    The company said its technology also can be used to identify everything from great poker players to extroverts, pedophiles, geniuses and white collar-criminals.

    Is the pedo-stache the tell?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    No, no! Dear fellow, it's been known for severa years now that pædophiles share certain ursine phenotypes which can be used for visual identification via software for machine-learning and facial recognition. The computers were trained using an archetype concatenated from billions of photographs of convicted pædophiles:

    https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/005/PedoBear.jpg
  62. Anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    Sam Jackson said he found out about Pulp Fiction when he ran into Tarantino at Sundance screening Reservoir Dogs. He had auditioned for that and he was surprised when QT asked him what he thought of the actor who got his part.

    “Shit, it would have been better with me.”

    “Well, I’m actually writing a part for you right now. I’ll send it to you in a few weeks.”

  63. @Intelligent Dasein
    The phrase "physiognomy is real" is almost a tautology. If you read it as an affirmation, as if physiognomy were some hypothesized thing that may or may not exist but does, then you miss the whole sense of it. It needs to be read as an equivalence; the "is" is the equality symbol between two related descriptions. Physiognomy is real....Physiognomy is the real....Physignomy is what's real.

    Everything that is "real" has physiognomy. That is to say, it discloses its qualities in its acts of existence. This is what it means to be real. It should not be surprising, nor even controversial, that what a man is, is reflected in his manner of being. If it were not, then where would it be? It would not be an "is"; it would not exist. For there is no existence in general. To exist as this man means that the qualities of this man must be brought into being. Therefore physiognomy appears along with existence as its complement, materia signata quantitate.

    Understanding all this is crucial to any comprehension of race realism. The lack of such understanding is what has forced biology (the drag queen of the sciences) into the role as a crude substitute.

    biology (the drag queen of the sciences)

    That is a brilliant formulation.

  64. @Jesse
    Morse was most likely trying to keep an utterly outstanding student from being rejected for his ethnicity. Smyth was hardly going to abandon a star student by the side of the road once he was there.

    Sounds right.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Philip Morse went on to found the applied math discipline known as Operations Research in America, during WWII. He went on to create and head the OR department at MIT. My first boss got his Ph.D. under Morse in the 1950s. He was the brainiest guy I've ever worked with, by far.
  65. @Allen
    He posts on Gab: https://gab.com/Heartiste
    and archives of the site are here: https://heartiste.org/
    so far no new site though

    Has Gab been shut down or something? I keep trying to register and get the message: “This page isn’t working. If the problem continues, contact the site owner. HTTP ERROR 422”

    I’ve tried using Brave, Firefox, and Chrome. My computer is kind of old, Windows 7 — could that be the problem?

    Thanks for any light you can shed on this.

  66. @kaganovitch
    Sounds right.

    Philip Morse went on to found the applied math discipline known as Operations Research in America, during WWII. He went on to create and head the OR department at MIT. My first boss got his Ph.D. under Morse in the 1950s. He was the brainiest guy I’ve ever worked with, by far.

  67. @jon

    Cruise is not classically good looking.
     
    Cruise is literally the go-to example of the perfect "Golden Ratio" face:

    https://thingsthatmakesensetome.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/beauty-lies-in-the-eyes-of-the-beholder/

    In that link, the illustration of Cruise’s face looks like it has been made to fit the guidelines.

  68. @Reg Cæsar

    The five Rolling Stones, from England …, are modeled after The Beatles, only more lower class deformed.
     
    The Beatles were working class boys, and the Stones solidly middle class. They were both playing against type. The pop bands tended to come from the gritty North, while the bluesy ones were in soft suburban London.

    ...the opposite of Cruise in terms of career development.
     
    Depp wanted to be a rocker, but Cruise considered becoming a priest. (Father Mapother. Really.) That's about as opposite "career development" you can get within the law.

    Brad Pitt falls in-between Cruise and Depp on the handsome vs. pretty scale...
     
    Pitt just seems like Rob Lowe with a dye job. Didn't he show up right after Lowe's career troughed following that Georgia hotel room antic?

    Brad Pitt falls in-between Cruise and Depp
     
    Don't give the Weinsteins or Wachowskis any ideas.


    http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/images/publications/wct/2008-07-30/The-Houseboy-color.jpg

    bored identity strongly believes that Uncle Sailer missed important role of globo-homo handlers* ( *aka The Beatles Lost Years in Hamburg ) who coach-casted all those post-adolescent derelicts to the ‘organic’ Rise of The Planet of The Androgynes.

    Same goes for Jagger and Bowie.

    Female taste in Beauty & Celebrity Dept. was made with manufactured consent from it’s early beggining.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Men seem to be attracted to big ugly Neanderthal types like Russel Crowe Schwarzenegger Stallone. Women like and marry pretty boys who produce the pretty girls men are attracted to.

    Proud to brag that husband is, was prettier and blonder than Brad Pitt ever was and still much thinner and jowl less than the much younger Brad Pitt. Brother in law is even better looking than husband. But he was already taken when I met him.

    I don’t know and don’t care why men are attracted to the big ugly Crowe Schwarzenegger types. Is it a submissive gay thing?

    Men admit they are attracted to good looking women. So what’s wrong with women being attracted to good looking men like Brad Pitt and my husband and his brothers?

    You guys mostly claim to be husbands. But the misogyny and women hatred on this site leads one to believe you’re all women hating gays. I don’t think women and girls are Cruise’ fan base. Maybe 30 years ago but then his movies became just special effects spectacles designed to appeal to teen boys and men. Cruise is good looking but his movies are for men
    , @Alden
    Mick Jagger is ugly ugly ugly. He was ugly at 17 and ugly at 75 or whatever he is now. Girls never thought he was good looking. That face, yech Bob Dylan, even more hideous.
  69. How many burly rock singers have their been?

    Not many apart from Bob Seger and Bachman Turner Overweight. Maybe a lot to do with the drugs making them uninterested in eating though.

    Tom Cruise’s square-jawed conventional handsomeness makes him an obvious prototype of movie star looks.

    I would say he is an insipid Robert Redford type. The physiognomy is to be masculine, but not too aggressive looking.

    Brad Pitt has the combination skewed to the masculine (especially his jaw), which is why Pitt can so convincingly play very tough, or even evil characters.

  70. @HonestBl
    "For example, the Movie Star vs. Rock Star polarity can be illustrated with famous actors. Tom Cruise’s square-jawed conventional handsomeness makes him an obvious prototype of movie star looks"

    I am sorry to disappoint @steve_sailer but tom got it through his surgeon, not genetics...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ihge-4Jow

    Tom Cruise may just be aging normally. The jaw changes as this shows. Tom just happened to age into a more mainly face, which happens:

    https://socratic.org/questions/how-does-facial-bone-structure-change-with-age

    • Replies: @Red Pill Angel
    But the older guy in your illustration has a longer, narrower jawline due to muscle sagging. Cruise's jaw has gotten wider and more muscular with age, as has Brad Pitt's. The squinty eyes, yes, that's normal, but men's jaws do not widen with age in a muscular way. Not talking about fat chins. These guys are on steroids, as is half of Hollywood. In Pitt's case he looks pretty good. Cruise is handsome but he never appealed to me. Someone pointed out the resemblance to Robert Redford, and he never seemed appealing to me either. I still watch old Humphrey Bogart films, though.
  71. @Anonymous
    Call the riffer of big guitars
    The cheekbonular one, and bid him whip
    In kitschy cuts concupiscent chords

    Let the wenches dawdle.

    I gave my son the original to memorize for his mandatory school recitation last year, because it’s funny and has a great title etc.–then suddenly worried that “wench” would be a problem. He substituted “A Postcard from the Volcano,” which may be my absolute favorite Wallace Stevens poem, and crushed it. He smeared it with the gold of the opulent sun, you might say.

    Further, unrelated comments:

    –Brad Pitt is reliably (according to credible people I know who know him a bit) supposed to be really dim. And he’s a very good actor. In tandem, these two facts are further proof that acting ability is strangely unrelated to anything above the most rudimentary intelligence.

    –Johnny Depp’s appeal in the 21 Jump Street era extended to women in their late twenties too: my older then-girlfriend spotted him in Von’s in those days and got pretty excited. I had no idea who she was talking about.

    The classic rock star look is often a weird combination of pretty and grotesque

    –Cf. Axl Rose, who looks like a mutant redhead male version of a recently deceased ex-girlfriend of mine–back when she was young and pretty and not yet dead.

  72. King Duncan, seemingly aware of his own limitations, said, “There’s no art to find the mind’s construction in the face.” I wonder if Shakespeare believed that.

  73. @joe_mama
    Though not explicitly stated, physiogomy is a big thing in latin culture. A common expression is "tiene cara de [blank]". This person has the face a [fill-in-the-blank]. Ie: a crook, a saint, a mischievousness character etc.

    My suspicion has been that since latin cultures tend to be more low-trust than anglo-saxon ones, this evolved as a survival mechanism of sorts. Being able to discern if someone is going to harm you or rip you off would obviously come in handy.

    Cara de pija– ¿verdad?

  74. @Autochthon
    Are you implying the photographs of the slides being shown in a classroom, included in the student's post, are some elaborate, staged hoax?

    It’s happened before. There were pictures going around a few years back, of a classroom full of teens and a teacher graphically demonstrating sex acts, including rectal intercourse.

    It kept being brought up as an example of Sex Ed Gone Mad. Until someone pointed out that it was a Swedish comedy sketch gently poking fun at Swedish education. At which point everyone shut up and pretended nothing ever happened.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDoQFcQEpOQ
  75. @Aft
    Physiognomy is real. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/07/artificial-intelligence-can-tell-your-sexuality-politics-surveillance-paul-lewis

    The decline and fall of the Roman empire: https://i.redd.it/ladcz784xcf21.jpg

    Very cool chart, if not very accurate.

    Then again, art was usually stylized and photography still a ways in the future..

  76. with the voice of a bull Negro

    There is a Chicago radio station – WVON. The “VON” stands for “Voice of the Negro.” I don’t know if they ever played the Rolling Stones though…

  77. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    And in turn, Pitt’s performance inspired Mr. Peepers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK82bEEFPck

    God almighty, I loathe Saturday Night Live. And especially Chris Katan.

  78. Surprised no one mentioned this guy:

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    Funny, because the next can't miss QB prospect is in the "rock star" mode rather than the "leading man:"

    https://res-3.cloudinary.com/rivals/image/upload/t_large/jdz2pgs7s6ut1cmqxhis
  79. @joe_mama
    Though not explicitly stated, physiogomy is a big thing in latin culture. A common expression is "tiene cara de [blank]". This person has the face a [fill-in-the-blank]. Ie: a crook, a saint, a mischievousness character etc.

    My suspicion has been that since latin cultures tend to be more low-trust than anglo-saxon ones, this evolved as a survival mechanism of sorts. Being able to discern if someone is going to harm you or rip you off would obviously come in handy.

    Gringos must have the face of one who needs his stuff and heritage expropriated.

  80. Tom Cruise also has a face of a serial killer (Though that may just be the manic energy of his shining through in his intensity) if the deepfake recasting of American Psycho demonstrates anything. Christian Bale is an actor I find sometimes hard to watch because I’m always painfully aware of his ‘acting’. (Like in the Ford V Ferrai trailer) I suppose his infamous melt-down when doing a scene in a bloody Terminator sequel nobody cared about gives away his effort.

    Tom Cruise on the other hand doesn’t seem to act very hard at all and relies on his screen charisma. Whatever else you say about Tom Cruise, like Jean Claude Van Damme, you’ll keep watching even a bad Tom Cruise film to see what he’ll do next. Why hasn’t Van Damme been brought back in a big blockbuster film yet? He didn’t let himself go, can still do a lot of the action stuff and now can be the mysterious older man too.

  81. Anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:

    As usual very interesting piece. The little bit about Tarentino at the end, seemed like a bit of a wander from the question of does face = personality.

    Pitt has gotten a lot of accolades for the performance in Twelve Monkeys. But I always felt it was very silly and cartoonish. He never really gave me a feel of real mental illness. Just an actor acting up. And kudos to him for going for it. But it wasn’t convincing. And I actually felt it was annoying.

    This brings up the question of what have been the best portrayals of insanity on the screen? Shutter Island? Silence of the Lambs? Others? Not A Beautiful Mind.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings

    It’s a pretty good film.
    , @Coburn
    The performance of Tom Wilkinson in the film 'Michael Clayton'
    , @Alden
    Thing about Pitt is that he’s a real actor. So many actors just play the same part over and over again for 40 or 50 years. Pitt plays many parts and many different characters. A recent part was a US general sent to Afghanistan to win the war. Ha ha. Things happen and the general soon realizes the Afghani war is un winnable.
    Great movie.
    He’s a real actor who plays different roles
    , @Autochthon
    Girl, Interrupted and two of Robin Williams' vehicles – Patch Adams and The Fisher King come to mind as films which address the nuance of mental illness insightfully (not all raving about pink elephants or axe-murderers, nor catatonia, which extremes too many literary, dramatic, especially, cinematic portrayals embrace).

    Much varies depending upon what illness, and, too, many of the best treatment occurs in in films for which the mental illness is not necessarily the film's focus per se:

    The Machinist is much better work by Bale in this vein than is American Psycho – plumbing the depths of guilt and resulting paranoia.

    Alan Parker's Birdy is a compelling exploration of dissociative disorders.

    Shame is a masterful exploration of sexual compulsions and dysfunction.

    Ryan Gosling does excellent work exploring desperate loneliness coupled by fear of relationships (Lars & The Real Girl) and the anguish and horror suffered by fathers robbed of their children (The Place Beyond the Pines) – the latter is of course a routine aspect of modern life, treated no differently than an oil change, despite the damage to father and child alike.

    I also commend to you A Streetcar Named Desire, The Glass Menagerie, Junebug, Slingblade, The Weatherman, and Little Miss Sunshine.
  82. @HonestBl
    "For example, the Movie Star vs. Rock Star polarity can be illustrated with famous actors. Tom Cruise’s square-jawed conventional handsomeness makes him an obvious prototype of movie star looks"

    I am sorry to disappoint @steve_sailer but tom got it through his surgeon, not genetics...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ihge-4Jow

    A lot of that looks like normal aging, a lot of men get a sag around their eyelids, Ptosis, as they get older and for men who don’t gain weight, the skin can seem to ‘cling’ more firmly to the face.

  83. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    O/T, but you knew this was coming:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/ohio-college-normalizes-pedophilia-sexual-orientation

    And this:
    https://summit.news/2019/09/11/new-sexual-fetish-couples-getting-pregnant-and-having-multiple-abortions/

    It's so hard to keep one's chin up.

    One thing the internet has taught me is that there is no shortage of people anxious to promote practices that damage society.

  84. @Spangel
    I don’t think this is about the performers or their competencies as much as it is about what the audience expects subconsciously.

    The audience doesn’t want a lead actor who looks like mick jagger even though they can like jagger in other contexts. Lead actors are expected to be handsome, and usually not too pretty looking. Not always though as Depp is about as pretty as a man can get.

    As for why the audience wants jagger to sing but not act, singing is sort of a feminine pursuit. It’s a lovely and sweet thing to do. So male singers in order to exhude masculinity have to make their voices gritty and contorted and look gritty and contorted to match.

    I suppose it’s context too. We’re not looking at a performers face so intently either in concert or in music videos, in film the closeup is king.

  85. You left out ZZ Top in the burly rock department…

  86. Anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:

    One of the things I like in Heinlein is the lack of description of faces, not even just being economical, but positively eschewing it. Exceptions exist of course. For instance in Double Star. (Of course, that actually makes sense from the perspective of the narrator, an actor, that he notes his looks, Dak’s looks, etc.) \

    Actually I like the much less detail in general. Feels like books nowadays are so long. I actually don’t mind a diversion if well done. But a lot of them just feel padded.

  87. Cruise? you’ve gotta be kidding……..he’s a flaky munchkin. As to the effem attraction.. never understood it. Give me a Cary Grantesque, Clint Eastwood, Ron Ely, Robert Conrad, older Sean Connery, Pierce Brosnan, Tom Sellek, Sam Elliott, Anson Mount, Brock OHurn, Henry Cavill, Timothy Oliphant, Josh Holloway, or Jensen Ackles… iin their prime…..any day. They’ve gotta have nice hands though…that’s a deal breaker.

  88. @Kratoklastes
    Cruise is not classically good looking. He has a weird nose, and his front teeth are fucked up (one of his maxillary central incisors lines up with his nose: once you see that you can’t unsee it). It’s a meme now...

    https://i.imgur.com/kIKUTr9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    That said (and nohomo): Matthew McConaughey also has skew-whiff front teeth, and he’s certainly a classically goodlookin’ rooster. Probably in the top 3 sets of white male facial planes in showbiz.

    The dude who plays Captain America is probably the all-comers winner, in my view. He’s like Ryan Reynolds with better teeth and lower body fat.


    Brad Pitt was absolutely amazing in “Snatch” and “12 Monkeys”. Depp was perfect in “The Libertine”.

    Cruise has had some really good sci-fi roles: Vanilla Sky, Minority Report, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow... those are under-rated.

    I thought Cruise did an underappreciated job in The Color of Money. He looked much smaller and more childish than in Top Gun, etc. And did a good job of portraying a bit of a goof. Rather than just being Tom Cruise again (as in Oblivion, Jack Reacher, etc.)

  89. Pitt won’t be McQueen’s heir until he finishes second overall at Sebring with a broken foot.

  90. @Jesse
    It's happened before. There were pictures going around a few years back, of a classroom full of teens and a teacher graphically demonstrating sex acts, including rectal intercourse.

    It kept being brought up as an example of Sex Ed Gone Mad. Until someone pointed out that it was a Swedish comedy sketch gently poking fun at Swedish education. At which point everyone shut up and pretended nothing ever happened.

  91. Burly rock star: Mr. Michael Lee Aday

    Meat Loaf and still iconic

    Something Irresistible about a woman casually straddling a bike . . .

    As for Mr. Tom Cruise, that I think that is fairly accurate.

  92. Not quite as Burly as Meatloaf, but still burly:

    Ruhan du Toit and Deon van der Merwe, Touch of Class

  93. I’ve also noticed actresses playing chill, low drama girlfriends: Ellen Page in Juno, Kristen Stewart in Twilight. They end up being lesbians in real life.

  94. @Steve Sailer
    "The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    Let me make that more specific: "The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers." Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.

    Let me make that more specific: “The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers.” Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.

    That’s because girls outgrow their crushes. Young Makayla may be in love with Johnny Bravo when she’s 11. By the time she’s 13 or 14, she’s disgusted with her old self and disdains the crushes of her youth. She moves on.

    Meanwhile, Johnny Bravo is old news to the upcoming 11 year old set, so they look for the next set of heart throbs. All cleverly packaged by Hollywood, of course, and designed to age-out in a few years. Just when they start wanting more money.

    What’s more interesting, and unsettling, are the young girl actresses who get idolized by other young girls. Like that Hannah Montana girl Miley Cyrus (the last one I was really aware of). Disney has become a Jewish whore factory that turns sweet young Goy girls into tramps and sluts for public consumption. Always a new one in the works. I don’t know which Goy girl is currently being exploited.

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    The current one would be Ariana Grande, who came from Nickelodeon but it might as well be Disney. Miley is close to being a has been at this point.
  95. Steve, what’s with the “concupiscent” reference? I spent 63 years never encountering that word and here you make me look it up.

  96. @Spangel
    I don’t think this is about the performers or their competencies as much as it is about what the audience expects subconsciously.

    The audience doesn’t want a lead actor who looks like mick jagger even though they can like jagger in other contexts. Lead actors are expected to be handsome, and usually not too pretty looking. Not always though as Depp is about as pretty as a man can get.

    As for why the audience wants jagger to sing but not act, singing is sort of a feminine pursuit. It’s a lovely and sweet thing to do. So male singers in order to exhude masculinity have to make their voices gritty and contorted and look gritty and contorted to match.

    The actor – rocker gap is the Olympian – Chthonic gap. Or Apollo and Bacchus if you like.

    Why we want Apollo onscreen but Bacchus on the radio is perhaps a deep question. Or perhaps not. We can all enjoy Bacchanals, but we’re not so happy to have people look at them. Maybe it’s as simple as the visual medium not transmitting the essence of Bacchus well because we have to look and analyze while watching.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    Apollo, the enemy of chaos and the bringer of order :



    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ce/96/95/ce9695867d9c8322145974c439b080fa--the-temple-olympia.jpg


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollon_of_Olympia
  97. When will Tarantino make a movie for Cruise? Maybe Star Trek? QT can write in parts for all the Scientologists in Hollywood.

  98. @Anonymous
    As usual very interesting piece. The little bit about Tarentino at the end, seemed like a bit of a wander from the question of does face = personality.

    Pitt has gotten a lot of accolades for the performance in Twelve Monkeys. But I always felt it was very silly and cartoonish. He never really gave me a feel of real mental illness. Just an actor acting up. And kudos to him for going for it. But it wasn't convincing. And I actually felt it was annoying.

    This brings up the question of what have been the best portrayals of insanity on the screen? Shutter Island? Silence of the Lambs? Others? Not A Beautiful Mind.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings

    It’s a pretty good film.

  99. @RichardTaylor
    Tom Cruise may just be aging normally. The jaw changes as this shows. Tom just happened to age into a more mainly face, which happens:

    https://socratic.org/questions/how-does-facial-bone-structure-change-with-age


    https://d2jmvrsizmvf4x.cloudfront.net/1mkcrvKgRBaB1skkHbb1_8665.jpg

    But the older guy in your illustration has a longer, narrower jawline due to muscle sagging. Cruise’s jaw has gotten wider and more muscular with age, as has Brad Pitt’s. The squinty eyes, yes, that’s normal, but men’s jaws do not widen with age in a muscular way. Not talking about fat chins. These guys are on steroids, as is half of Hollywood. In Pitt’s case he looks pretty good. Cruise is handsome but he never appealed to me. Someone pointed out the resemblance to Robert Redford, and he never seemed appealing to me either. I still watch old Humphrey Bogart films, though.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    On Redford:

    I saw “The Way We Were” in a hall in a northern Spanish town in the late 1970s and every Spanish woman in the audience began shrieking and shouting when the camera panned across a smoky barroom or dancehall to show Redford slumped in his chair wearing his white (?Navy) uniform. The noise didn’t diminish for several minutes as they bantered back and forth.
  100. RE: Physiognomy as Destiny,

    As John Adams ruefully noted, Washington had the look of a Leader of Men:

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    George Washington was an Anglo-Norman Virginia aristocrat with a regal beak that majestically flowed off his forehead.

    Washington wasn't no needle-nosed, douchebag East Anglian lawyer or money-grubber.

    George Washington did have some Saxon ancestry just like William the Conqueror had. As pointed out by an Unz Review commenter, William the Conqueror had some Saxon blood and William thought he was the rightful ruler of Saxon England, that's why he invaded England and took the joint over.
    , @ricpic
    The Spanish have an expression, fuerte y feo for a man like this.

    Strong and ugly. And the meaning is, this man is VIRILE.
  101. Raises the question:

    Why does Sailer join the left mainstream in marginalizing the great Mark Farner?

  102. I never thought Brad Pitt was attractive. He looks like a monkey, he looks dumb.

    Always went for what I called the “poet type” a combination of musician and artist. Wiry body, fine features, pale clear skin, high straight forehead, nice cheekbones, longer hair….but definitely heterosexual. Sometimes they even wore eyeliner to accentuate their features. Think of the lead singer of The Verve, but less gawky and a little better looking. These good-looking musician/artist types were the ultimate flowering of male whiteness.

    So now we’re into the age of worshiping Men of Color. An era is over. Glad I got to experience it.

  103. @Jim Christian
    Surprised no one mentioned this guy:

    https://c.o0bc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cf4def8a-d804-11e9-bfde-5b3a3d84fe85-850x478$large.jpg

    Funny, because the next can’t miss QB prospect is in the “rock star” mode rather than the “leading man:”

    https://res-3.cloudinary.com/rivals/image/upload/t_large/jdz2pgs7s6ut1cmqxhis

  104. @bored identity
    bored identity strongly believes that Uncle Sailer missed important role of globo-homo handlers* ( *aka The Beatles Lost Years in Hamburg ) who coach-casted all those post-adolescent derelicts to the 'organic' Rise of The Planet of The Androgynes.

    Same goes for Jagger and Bowie.


    Female taste in Beauty & Celebrity Dept. was made with manufactured consent from it's early beggining.

    Men seem to be attracted to big ugly Neanderthal types like Russel Crowe Schwarzenegger Stallone. Women like and marry pretty boys who produce the pretty girls men are attracted to.

    Proud to brag that husband is, was prettier and blonder than Brad Pitt ever was and still much thinner and jowl less than the much younger Brad Pitt. Brother in law is even better looking than husband. But he was already taken when I met him.

    I don’t know and don’t care why men are attracted to the big ugly Crowe Schwarzenegger types. Is it a submissive gay thing?

    Men admit they are attracted to good looking women. So what’s wrong with women being attracted to good looking men like Brad Pitt and my husband and his brothers?

    You guys mostly claim to be husbands. But the misogyny and women hatred on this site leads one to believe you’re all women hating gays. I don’t think women and girls are Cruise’ fan base. Maybe 30 years ago but then his movies became just special effects spectacles designed to appeal to teen boys and men. Cruise is good looking but his movies are for men

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Meh. Your husband is hotter than Russell Crowe, huh? Uh huh. Well, she may or may not be hotter than Danielle Spencer or Nicole Kidman, but I bet my wife is better-looking than you, and a lot less kvetchy about this stuff. Her own (far more feminine and wise) philosophy is that everyone should be friends with or romantically involved with those he is attracted to and loves, regardless of appearances and what other people may think. Most tellingly, you are conflating men's affinity for manly men (because that affinity is driven by the men whose company they would enjoy) with women's affinity for pretty men (because that affinity is driven by the men whose visages they would like to kiss and bodies they would like to schtupp). You know why guys like Tom Cruise? It's little to do with his appearance. It's because he is an admirable man of action who is kind and helpful to others and who strives to do good work. He gets shit done and he's a friend whose friends can count on him.

    https://youtu.be/EmSFfOis54c

    https://youtu.be/lXpfKmn4inU

    Anyway, you are cherry-picking goofy extremes (plenty of buff dudes are handsome as well; Hell, Pitt himself is hardly a more effeminate, pretty fellow in the vein of, say, Justin Timberlake or even Orlando Bloom). You seem to misconstrue others' comments to accommodate a desire to deride the male commenters without cause.

    American Woman, stay away from me.
  105. @bored identity
    bored identity strongly believes that Uncle Sailer missed important role of globo-homo handlers* ( *aka The Beatles Lost Years in Hamburg ) who coach-casted all those post-adolescent derelicts to the 'organic' Rise of The Planet of The Androgynes.

    Same goes for Jagger and Bowie.


    Female taste in Beauty & Celebrity Dept. was made with manufactured consent from it's early beggining.

    Mick Jagger is ugly ugly ugly. He was ugly at 17 and ugly at 75 or whatever he is now. Girls never thought he was good looking. That face, yech Bob Dylan, even more hideous.

  106. @Anonymous
    As usual very interesting piece. The little bit about Tarentino at the end, seemed like a bit of a wander from the question of does face = personality.

    Pitt has gotten a lot of accolades for the performance in Twelve Monkeys. But I always felt it was very silly and cartoonish. He never really gave me a feel of real mental illness. Just an actor acting up. And kudos to him for going for it. But it wasn't convincing. And I actually felt it was annoying.

    This brings up the question of what have been the best portrayals of insanity on the screen? Shutter Island? Silence of the Lambs? Others? Not A Beautiful Mind.

    The performance of Tom Wilkinson in the film ‘Michael Clayton’

  107. @Red Pill Angel
    But the older guy in your illustration has a longer, narrower jawline due to muscle sagging. Cruise's jaw has gotten wider and more muscular with age, as has Brad Pitt's. The squinty eyes, yes, that's normal, but men's jaws do not widen with age in a muscular way. Not talking about fat chins. These guys are on steroids, as is half of Hollywood. In Pitt's case he looks pretty good. Cruise is handsome but he never appealed to me. Someone pointed out the resemblance to Robert Redford, and he never seemed appealing to me either. I still watch old Humphrey Bogart films, though.

    On Redford:

    I saw “The Way We Were” in a hall in a northern Spanish town in the late 1970s and every Spanish woman in the audience began shrieking and shouting when the camera panned across a smoky barroom or dancehall to show Redford slumped in his chair wearing his white (?Navy) uniform. The noise didn’t diminish for several minutes as they bantered back and forth.

    • Replies: @Red Pill Angel
    Perhaps for those Spanish ladies his blond looks were tantalizingly different from the guys on the block? But he always looked like he'd been into the Clairol to me. He was very handsome, though, just not my type. He has a smug expression.
  108. Anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    Tom Cruise is a creation of surgery.

    In his early movies (taps to top gun) he is quite ugly…his mouth is really screwed up (probably a good story behind that) and his jaw/skull shape is quite…eye catching, for all the wrong reasons.

    After his top gun success, though, he used his money to transform himself. And, by the time of the 1st Mission impossible movie, he became the Cruise we know today…chiseled face, winning smile, buff but not intimidating, etc.

    In contrast, Brad Pitt (in his youth) was a natural. When you look at his early movies (california, thelma and louise, river runs through it, legends of the fall)….thats ACTUALLY, REALLY him. No plastic surgery, no digital editing (didn’t exist yet)..thats what he actually looked like. Its actually quite amazing what he looked like, and continues to look like, to this day.

    Speaking of physiognomy, this is why most of Pitt’s roles have been of rascals/outsiders…because he is so good looking and so sexy, that no one (man or woman) finds it believable that his characters would ever settle down or treat woman as anything but playthings.

    Cruise, by contrast, always wanted to the A list big budget good guy, roles which require a male star’s role to be “marriage material.” Hence, most of cruise roles, especially after “top gun” (and his appearance altering surgeries) have been clean cut good guys trying to walk the strait and narrow path.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    To my mind, there is nothing funnier on the internet than iSteve commenters expounding, at length, about how ugly this or that movie star is.

    Tom Cruise became a movie star because (among other things) he was freakishly attractive. He didn't become a movie star so he could make himself freakishly attractive, any more than Muhammad Ali became heavyweight boxing champion so he could hire first-rate trainers and become a great boxer. That's not how these things work.

  109. @syonredux
    RE: Physiognomy as Destiny,

    As John Adams ruefully noted, Washington had the look of a Leader of Men:

    https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/hb/hb_07.160_av1.jpg

    George Washington was an Anglo-Norman Virginia aristocrat with a regal beak that majestically flowed off his forehead.

    Washington wasn’t no needle-nosed, douchebag East Anglian lawyer or money-grubber.

    George Washington did have some Saxon ancestry just like William the Conqueror had. As pointed out by an Unz Review commenter, William the Conqueror had some Saxon blood and William thought he was the rightful ruler of Saxon England, that’s why he invaded England and took the joint over.

  110. I guess the days of a genuine man in the Spencer Tracy mold as a movie star are gone.

  111. Tom Cruise is extremely small and petite in person. He’s not just thin, but very small boned and narrow. His face is easily recognizable. But he looks like Tom’s face on top of a skinny 12 year old’s body. If he’s 5’6 he’s probably about 125 pounds, slim for a woman.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    CelebHeights pegs Tom Cruise at 5ft 7 ¾. As for weight, I would guesstimate 150:

    https://starschanges.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/tom-cruise-height-weight-age-3.jpg


    https://www.celebheights.com/s/Tom-Cruise-3.html
  112. @syonredux
    RE: Physiognomy as Destiny,

    As John Adams ruefully noted, Washington had the look of a Leader of Men:

    https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/hb/hb_07.160_av1.jpg

    The Spanish have an expression, fuerte y feo for a man like this.

    Strong and ugly. And the meaning is, this man is VIRILE.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Quote from John Wayne: “I would like to be remembered, well ... the Mexicans have a phrase, "Feo fuerte y formal". Which means he was ugly, strong and had dignity.”
  113. @Anonymous
    As usual very interesting piece. The little bit about Tarentino at the end, seemed like a bit of a wander from the question of does face = personality.

    Pitt has gotten a lot of accolades for the performance in Twelve Monkeys. But I always felt it was very silly and cartoonish. He never really gave me a feel of real mental illness. Just an actor acting up. And kudos to him for going for it. But it wasn't convincing. And I actually felt it was annoying.

    This brings up the question of what have been the best portrayals of insanity on the screen? Shutter Island? Silence of the Lambs? Others? Not A Beautiful Mind.

    Thing about Pitt is that he’s a real actor. So many actors just play the same part over and over again for 40 or 50 years. Pitt plays many parts and many different characters. A recent part was a US general sent to Afghanistan to win the war. Ha ha. Things happen and the general soon realizes the Afghani war is un winnable.
    Great movie.
    He’s a real actor who plays different roles

  114. @Alden
    Tom Cruise is extremely small and petite in person. He’s not just thin, but very small boned and narrow. His face is easily recognizable. But he looks like Tom’s face on top of a skinny 12 year old’s body. If he’s 5’6 he’s probably about 125 pounds, slim for a woman.

    CelebHeights pegs Tom Cruise at 5ft 7 ¾. As for weight, I would guesstimate 150:

    https://www.celebheights.com/s/Tom-Cruise-3.html

    • Replies: @Red Pill Angel
    That picture is the one I've seen that doesn't look right: his face and neck too slim for his body, which is too thick for his arms. I've seen other male stars with this look. He almost looks transgender here. (There is a YouTube channel devoted to that theme but I'm not buying it.) Too much muscle for his small skeleton. I don't think he's anywhere near 5'8" either. More delicately built men are more graceful, better dancers, usually bright, and have prettier daughters. They should stop trying to be something else.
  115. @Chrisnonymous
    The actor - rocker gap is the Olympian - Chthonic gap. Or Apollo and Bacchus if you like.

    Why we want Apollo onscreen but Bacchus on the radio is perhaps a deep question. Or perhaps not. We can all enjoy Bacchanals, but we're not so happy to have people look at them. Maybe it's as simple as the visual medium not transmitting the essence of Bacchus well because we have to look and analyze while watching.

    Apollo, the enemy of chaos and the bringer of order :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollon_of_Olympia

  116. @Steve Sailer
    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3", blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil's face, etc

    https://cdn.britannica.com/44/11244-050-9BA77281/Dashiell-Hammett.jpg

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

    Hammett resembles a slightly better-looking Trey Gowdy. Gowdy always seemed like the Representative from the state of Slytherin.

  117. @syonredux
    CelebHeights pegs Tom Cruise at 5ft 7 ¾. As for weight, I would guesstimate 150:

    https://starschanges.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/tom-cruise-height-weight-age-3.jpg


    https://www.celebheights.com/s/Tom-Cruise-3.html

    That picture is the one I’ve seen that doesn’t look right: his face and neck too slim for his body, which is too thick for his arms. I’ve seen other male stars with this look. He almost looks transgender here. (There is a YouTube channel devoted to that theme but I’m not buying it.) Too much muscle for his small skeleton. I don’t think he’s anywhere near 5’8″ either. More delicately built men are more graceful, better dancers, usually bright, and have prettier daughters. They should stop trying to be something else.

  118. @Anonymous
    As usual very interesting piece. The little bit about Tarentino at the end, seemed like a bit of a wander from the question of does face = personality.

    Pitt has gotten a lot of accolades for the performance in Twelve Monkeys. But I always felt it was very silly and cartoonish. He never really gave me a feel of real mental illness. Just an actor acting up. And kudos to him for going for it. But it wasn't convincing. And I actually felt it was annoying.

    This brings up the question of what have been the best portrayals of insanity on the screen? Shutter Island? Silence of the Lambs? Others? Not A Beautiful Mind.

    Girl, Interrupted and two of Robin Williams’ vehicles – Patch Adams and The Fisher King come to mind as films which address the nuance of mental illness insightfully (not all raving about pink elephants or axe-murderers, nor catatonia, which extremes too many literary, dramatic, especially, cinematic portrayals embrace).

    Much varies depending upon what illness, and, too, many of the best treatment occurs in in films for which the mental illness is not necessarily the film’s focus per se:

    The Machinist is much better work by Bale in this vein than is American Psycho – plumbing the depths of guilt and resulting paranoia.

    Alan Parker’s Birdy is a compelling exploration of dissociative disorders.

    Shame is a masterful exploration of sexual compulsions and dysfunction.

    Ryan Gosling does excellent work exploring desperate loneliness coupled by fear of relationships (Lars & The Real Girl) and the anguish and horror suffered by fathers robbed of their children (The Place Beyond the Pines) – the latter is of course a routine aspect of modern life, treated no differently than an oil change, despite the damage to father and child alike.

    I also commend to you A Streetcar Named Desire, The Glass Menagerie, Junebug, Slingblade, The Weatherman, and Little Miss Sunshine.

  119. @Cortes
    On Redford:

    I saw “The Way We Were” in a hall in a northern Spanish town in the late 1970s and every Spanish woman in the audience began shrieking and shouting when the camera panned across a smoky barroom or dancehall to show Redford slumped in his chair wearing his white (?Navy) uniform. The noise didn’t diminish for several minutes as they bantered back and forth.

    Perhaps for those Spanish ladies his blond looks were tantalizingly different from the guys on the block? But he always looked like he’d been into the Clairol to me. He was very handsome, though, just not my type. He has a smug expression.

  120. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    O/T, but you knew this was coming:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/ohio-college-normalizes-pedophilia-sexual-orientation

    And this:
    https://summit.news/2019/09/11/new-sexual-fetish-couples-getting-pregnant-and-having-multiple-abortions/

    It's so hard to keep one's chin up.

    Pedophilia normalized as Richard Stallman is forced out, rightist twitterers and youtubers censored while pedophiles and terrorists are not: this and other examples hopefully shows that sexual libertinism is a lie. Lefties always want it both ways, their talk about freedom and acceptance is just angling for a better position from which to attack.

  121. @Intelligent Dasein
    The phrase "physiognomy is real" is almost a tautology. If you read it as an affirmation, as if physiognomy were some hypothesized thing that may or may not exist but does, then you miss the whole sense of it. It needs to be read as an equivalence; the "is" is the equality symbol between two related descriptions. Physiognomy is real....Physiognomy is the real....Physignomy is what's real.

    Everything that is "real" has physiognomy. That is to say, it discloses its qualities in its acts of existence. This is what it means to be real. It should not be surprising, nor even controversial, that what a man is, is reflected in his manner of being. If it were not, then where would it be? It would not be an "is"; it would not exist. For there is no existence in general. To exist as this man means that the qualities of this man must be brought into being. Therefore physiognomy appears along with existence as its complement, materia signata quantitate.

    Understanding all this is crucial to any comprehension of race realism. The lack of such understanding is what has forced biology (the drag queen of the sciences) into the role as a crude substitute.

    Ah, now I finally begin to see why you are against the HBD approach.
    Now that I see it, I see too that you are correct, at least insofar as your approach must come first; it is after all what we all see immediately, if we can see with any understanding at all. Physiognomy is being indeed.

    The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.

    Thus our disgust with the African, and our relative ease in the face of the Oriental: the first is close to wholly other, the second recognisably our own kind.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    “The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.”

    High school teacher friends have mentioned that the most dangerous people are those who look like butter wouldn’t melt in their mouth. Standard practice for defence lawyers in Scotland is to reject teachers from juries. Teachers (police also) know that there’s no necessary reason for outward appearance to reflect content.... Many victims of crime discover the truth the hard way.

    , @Intelligent Dasein
    Thank you. Yes, you understand me. That is all I've been trying to say.
    , @DogAnecdote
    May I offer a brief anecdote that corresponds to your comment?

    For several years, I took my pit bull for early-morning walks in Griffith Park. If she saw another dog, regardless of its breed or size, she would run at it full speed and smash into it as an invitation to wrestle and play. Chihuahua or Great Dane, it made no difference.

    When she would see a coyote, she would freeze. Never once did she approach a coyote.

    Coyotes are close enough to dogs to be able to interbreed with them. As long as they are not moving (they have a distinctive gait), to most people coyotes look like dogs. Yet, to a dog, they are so different and so off-putting as to inspire a completely opposite set of behaviors; ie avoidance vs approach.
  122. @Aft
    Physiognomy is real. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/07/artificial-intelligence-can-tell-your-sexuality-politics-surveillance-paul-lewis

    The decline and fall of the Roman empire: https://i.redd.it/ladcz784xcf21.jpg

    One can do something very similar with the popes, only it’s suddenly way worse.

    • Replies: @Aft
    America had the same problem

    https://www.historyonthenet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/foundingfathers.jpg

    https://cdn2.lamag.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2018/02/wiley-obama-699x1024.jpg
  123. @Reg Cæsar

    The five Rolling Stones, from England …, are modeled after The Beatles, only more lower class deformed.
     
    The Beatles were working class boys, and the Stones solidly middle class. They were both playing against type. The pop bands tended to come from the gritty North, while the bluesy ones were in soft suburban London.

    ...the opposite of Cruise in terms of career development.
     
    Depp wanted to be a rocker, but Cruise considered becoming a priest. (Father Mapother. Really.) That's about as opposite "career development" you can get within the law.

    Brad Pitt falls in-between Cruise and Depp on the handsome vs. pretty scale...
     
    Pitt just seems like Rob Lowe with a dye job. Didn't he show up right after Lowe's career troughed following that Georgia hotel room antic?

    Brad Pitt falls in-between Cruise and Depp
     
    Don't give the Weinsteins or Wachowskis any ideas.


    http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/images/publications/wct/2008-07-30/The-Houseboy-color.jpg

    John Lennon grew up in Allerton, a very nice leafy suburb of Liverpool. Ringo came from the much grittier working-class downtown area of Dingle.

  124. But to be/stay a huge star, you need male fans. The young girl audience isn’t loyal. There is always somebody new. So rock stars often butch up their acts: Springsteen as working man, Petty as redneck, Strummer as Kiplingesque soldier of fortune.

    When you look at the two front men for Gun’s & Roses, they had a balance, Axl Rose was the pretty boy with the high cheek bones and Slash was the machismo.

  125. @Kratoklastes
    Cruise is not classically good looking. He has a weird nose, and his front teeth are fucked up (one of his maxillary central incisors lines up with his nose: once you see that you can’t unsee it). It’s a meme now...

    https://i.imgur.com/kIKUTr9_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    That said (and nohomo): Matthew McConaughey also has skew-whiff front teeth, and he’s certainly a classically goodlookin’ rooster. Probably in the top 3 sets of white male facial planes in showbiz.

    The dude who plays Captain America is probably the all-comers winner, in my view. He’s like Ryan Reynolds with better teeth and lower body fat.


    Brad Pitt was absolutely amazing in “Snatch” and “12 Monkeys”. Depp was perfect in “The Libertine”.

    Cruise has had some really good sci-fi roles: Vanilla Sky, Minority Report, Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow... those are under-rated.

    Cruise is weird-looking, but you don’t notice when he’s smiling. Which is often. Somehow his smile makes it look normal.

  126. This post seems to have brought the few XX readers out of the woodwork.

  127. @Old Palo Altan
    Ah, now I finally begin to see why you are against the HBD approach.
    Now that I see it, I see too that you are correct, at least insofar as your approach must come first; it is after all what we all see immediately, if we can see with any understanding at all. Physiognomy is being indeed.

    The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.

    Thus our disgust with the African, and our relative ease in the face of the Oriental: the first is close to wholly other, the second recognisably our own kind.

    “The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.”

    High school teacher friends have mentioned that the most dangerous people are those who look like butter wouldn’t melt in their mouth. Standard practice for defence lawyers in Scotland is to reject teachers from juries. Teachers (police also) know that there’s no necessary reason for outward appearance to reflect content…. Many victims of crime discover the truth the hard way.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    I was a high school teacher for two years, and I know exactly what you are talking about:

    Racial soul first (radiant Aryan beauty), individual soul later (the dangerous look in those entrancing blue eyes).

    The first is the greater truth, foundational. The second can be corrected by a healthy society.

  128. @Simonini
    Depp obviously became more famous with Pirates of the Caribbean, but I remember him being very popular (especially with girls) in high school a few years before it came out on the basis of his Tim Burton films.

    He's basically been #cancelled since the Amber Herd accusations.

    Besides being major Hollywood creeps, Baldwin, Carrey, and Depp are also equally deranged in their pathetic belief how volunteering for Trumpshawnk Redemption will eventually get them off the MeToo Hook.

    In comparison, one could say that Woody Allen’s spine is made of steel.

  129. @Old Palo Altan
    Ah, now I finally begin to see why you are against the HBD approach.
    Now that I see it, I see too that you are correct, at least insofar as your approach must come first; it is after all what we all see immediately, if we can see with any understanding at all. Physiognomy is being indeed.

    The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.

    Thus our disgust with the African, and our relative ease in the face of the Oriental: the first is close to wholly other, the second recognisably our own kind.

    Thank you. Yes, you understand me. That is all I’ve been trying to say.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    The Urgedanken of all racial wisdom.
  130. @Steve Sailer
    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3", blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil's face, etc

    https://cdn.britannica.com/44/11244-050-9BA77281/Dashiell-Hammett.jpg

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

    Looks a bit like a younger Edward Norton.

  131. @Steve Sailer
    Hammett spent 2 pages in The Maltese Falcon describing how Sam Spade looked exactly like Hammett, who was a memorable looking fellow: 6-3", blond or white-haired at an early age, contrasting dark mustache, triangular devil's face, etc

    https://cdn.britannica.com/44/11244-050-9BA77281/Dashiell-Hammett.jpg

    Then Spade was played by Humphrey Bogart.

    Looks like that Steve Sailer fellow.

    Pitt’s already been McQueen’s successor for thirty years. Cf. Thelma and Louise, the Ocean pics, et. al.

    Depp was playing Jack Shaftoe in the Pirates movies.

  132. @jon


    How many burly rock singers have their been?

     

    Meatloaf.
     
    Danzig for the win

    Nah.

    Nobody comes close to the late Master Kilmeister.

    RIP Lemmy

  133. @Steve Sailer
    "The young girl audience isn’t loyal.”

    Let me make that more specific: "The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers." Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.

    Agreed there. Justin Bieber had to start acting like a rapper and associate himself with trendy DJs to remain popular and get men to listen to his music (it worked).

    Also I would say that does not apply to older women. There are plenty of male R&B singers past their prime, for example who still enjoy large and primarily female followings and can tour as a result (R. Kelly was probably the best example…).

  134. @peterike

    Let me make that more specific: “The young girl audience isn’t loyal to boy singers.” Taylor Swift and Beyonce do fine with long-term loyalty.
     
    That's because girls outgrow their crushes. Young Makayla may be in love with Johnny Bravo when she's 11. By the time she's 13 or 14, she's disgusted with her old self and disdains the crushes of her youth. She moves on.

    Meanwhile, Johnny Bravo is old news to the upcoming 11 year old set, so they look for the next set of heart throbs. All cleverly packaged by Hollywood, of course, and designed to age-out in a few years. Just when they start wanting more money.

    What's more interesting, and unsettling, are the young girl actresses who get idolized by other young girls. Like that Hannah Montana girl Miley Cyrus (the last one I was really aware of). Disney has become a Jewish whore factory that turns sweet young Goy girls into tramps and sluts for public consumption. Always a new one in the works. I don't know which Goy girl is currently being exploited.

    The current one would be Ariana Grande, who came from Nickelodeon but it might as well be Disney. Miley is close to being a has been at this point.

    • Replies: @black sea
    Miley has announced that she won't reproduce due to climate change, which is the best news regarding warming temperatures since the retreat of the Canadian Shield.
  135. @Aft
    Physiognomy is real. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/07/artificial-intelligence-can-tell-your-sexuality-politics-surveillance-paul-lewis

    The decline and fall of the Roman empire: https://i.redd.it/ladcz784xcf21.jpg

    More like “the decline of realistic portraiture during late antiquity.” Also, as far as I’m aware we have no idea what most of the third century emperors looked like, and I doubt we have contemporaneous images for most of the rest.

    Where does that chart come from?

  136. @Anonymous
    Tom Cruise is a creation of surgery.

    In his early movies (taps to top gun) he is quite ugly...his mouth is really screwed up (probably a good story behind that) and his jaw/skull shape is quite...eye catching, for all the wrong reasons.

    After his top gun success, though, he used his money to transform himself. And, by the time of the 1st Mission impossible movie, he became the Cruise we know today...chiseled face, winning smile, buff but not intimidating, etc.

    In contrast, Brad Pitt (in his youth) was a natural. When you look at his early movies (california, thelma and louise, river runs through it, legends of the fall)....thats ACTUALLY, REALLY him. No plastic surgery, no digital editing (didn't exist yet)..thats what he actually looked like. Its actually quite amazing what he looked like, and continues to look like, to this day.

    Speaking of physiognomy, this is why most of Pitt's roles have been of rascals/outsiders...because he is so good looking and so sexy, that no one (man or woman) finds it believable that his characters would ever settle down or treat woman as anything but playthings.

    Cruise, by contrast, always wanted to the A list big budget good guy, roles which require a male star's role to be "marriage material." Hence, most of cruise roles, especially after "top gun" (and his appearance altering surgeries) have been clean cut good guys trying to walk the strait and narrow path.

    To my mind, there is nothing funnier on the internet than iSteve commenters expounding, at length, about how ugly this or that movie star is.

    Tom Cruise became a movie star because (among other things) he was freakishly attractive. He didn’t become a movie star so he could make himself freakishly attractive, any more than Muhammad Ali became heavyweight boxing champion so he could hire first-rate trainers and become a great boxer. That’s not how these things work.

  137. @Old Palo Altan
    One can do something very similar with the popes, only it's suddenly way worse.

    America had the same problem

  138. @ricpic
    The Spanish have an expression, fuerte y feo for a man like this.

    Strong and ugly. And the meaning is, this man is VIRILE.

    Quote from John Wayne: “I would like to be remembered, well … the Mexicans have a phrase, “Feo fuerte y formal”. Which means he was ugly, strong and had dignity.”

  139. @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    The current one would be Ariana Grande, who came from Nickelodeon but it might as well be Disney. Miley is close to being a has been at this point.

    Miley has announced that she won’t reproduce due to climate change, which is the best news regarding warming temperatures since the retreat of the Canadian Shield.

  140. What about Danzig and Henry Rollins? Meatloaf was plump to stout.

  141. Brad Pitt was best in Troy. He looked and acted like the son of a god. He’s could star in a Billy Jack remake and pull it off blond hair and all.

    I’m kind of surprised Tarantino has not tried a Billy Jack type movie. Kill Bill doesn’t count.

  142. @Kronos
    “As an example, some children with genetic mental disabilities also have obvious facial anomalies.”

    Some get to be famous...

    https://deadlymovies.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/richard-brooker-jason-f13-1982.jpg

    To be fair, if your told about a lake that has a 95% death rate for horny teenagers and you proceed, that’s not too smart.

    A quibble: are not “horny teenagers” a bit like “wet water” or a “divine god?” Yet the phrase is common….

    • Replies: @Kronos
    True, but its not close enough that the two word combo is fully redundant.
  143. @Harry Baldwin
    The company said its technology also can be used to identify everything from great poker players to extroverts, pedophiles, geniuses and white collar-criminals.

    Is the pedo-stache the tell?

    No, no! Dear fellow, it’s been known for severa years now that pædophiles share certain ursine phenotypes which can be used for visual identification via software for machine-learning and facial recognition. The computers were trained using an archetype concatenated from billions of photographs of convicted pædophiles:

  144. @Alden
    Men seem to be attracted to big ugly Neanderthal types like Russel Crowe Schwarzenegger Stallone. Women like and marry pretty boys who produce the pretty girls men are attracted to.

    Proud to brag that husband is, was prettier and blonder than Brad Pitt ever was and still much thinner and jowl less than the much younger Brad Pitt. Brother in law is even better looking than husband. But he was already taken when I met him.

    I don’t know and don’t care why men are attracted to the big ugly Crowe Schwarzenegger types. Is it a submissive gay thing?

    Men admit they are attracted to good looking women. So what’s wrong with women being attracted to good looking men like Brad Pitt and my husband and his brothers?

    You guys mostly claim to be husbands. But the misogyny and women hatred on this site leads one to believe you’re all women hating gays. I don’t think women and girls are Cruise’ fan base. Maybe 30 years ago but then his movies became just special effects spectacles designed to appeal to teen boys and men. Cruise is good looking but his movies are for men

    Meh. Your husband is hotter than Russell Crowe, huh? Uh huh. Well, she may or may not be hotter than Danielle Spencer or Nicole Kidman, but I bet my wife is better-looking than you, and a lot less kvetchy about this stuff. Her own (far more feminine and wise) philosophy is that everyone should be friends with or romantically involved with those he is attracted to and loves, regardless of appearances and what other people may think. Most tellingly, you are conflating men’s affinity for manly men (because that affinity is driven by the men whose company they would enjoy) with women’s affinity for pretty men (because that affinity is driven by the men whose visages they would like to kiss and bodies they would like to schtupp). You know why guys like Tom Cruise? It’s little to do with his appearance. It’s because he is an admirable man of action who is kind and helpful to others and who strives to do good work. He gets shit done and he’s a friend whose friends can count on him.

    Anyway, you are cherry-picking goofy extremes (plenty of buff dudes are handsome as well; Hell, Pitt himself is hardly a more effeminate, pretty fellow in the vein of, say, Justin Timberlake or even Orlando Bloom). You seem to misconstrue others’ comments to accommodate a desire to deride the male commenters without cause.

    American Woman, stay away from me.

  145. @Autochthon
    A quibble: are not "horny teenagers" a bit like "wet water" or a "divine god?" Yet the phrase is common....

    True, but its not close enough that the two word combo is fully redundant.

  146. @Old Palo Altan
    Ah, now I finally begin to see why you are against the HBD approach.
    Now that I see it, I see too that you are correct, at least insofar as your approach must come first; it is after all what we all see immediately, if we can see with any understanding at all. Physiognomy is being indeed.

    The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.

    Thus our disgust with the African, and our relative ease in the face of the Oriental: the first is close to wholly other, the second recognisably our own kind.

    May I offer a brief anecdote that corresponds to your comment?

    For several years, I took my pit bull for early-morning walks in Griffith Park. If she saw another dog, regardless of its breed or size, she would run at it full speed and smash into it as an invitation to wrestle and play. Chihuahua or Great Dane, it made no difference.

    When she would see a coyote, she would freeze. Never once did she approach a coyote.

    Coyotes are close enough to dogs to be able to interbreed with them. As long as they are not moving (they have a distinctive gait), to most people coyotes look like dogs. Yet, to a dog, they are so different and so off-putting as to inspire a completely opposite set of behaviors; ie avoidance vs approach.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    A very suggestive anecdote.

    I am sure that we whites were the same until false morality came into the picture. The Chinese still react pretty much in that healthy way, one of the reasons they are about to inherit the earth.

    But Griffith Park? You and your pit bull saw coyotes in Griffith Park?

    The last time I drove by the place (in around 2012) I was appalled: it was a seething mass of brown faces and bodies (and they were not sunbathers).

    A shocking sight to anybody who remembered what it used to be like - not particularly elegant, indeed even rather shoddy, but at least a safe and liveable public space.

  147. @Cortes
    “The soul is in the face, and in the whole stance; the racial soul first, and only then the individual.”

    High school teacher friends have mentioned that the most dangerous people are those who look like butter wouldn’t melt in their mouth. Standard practice for defence lawyers in Scotland is to reject teachers from juries. Teachers (police also) know that there’s no necessary reason for outward appearance to reflect content.... Many victims of crime discover the truth the hard way.

    I was a high school teacher for two years, and I know exactly what you are talking about:

    Racial soul first (radiant Aryan beauty), individual soul later (the dangerous look in those entrancing blue eyes).

    The first is the greater truth, foundational. The second can be corrected by a healthy society.

  148. @Intelligent Dasein
    Thank you. Yes, you understand me. That is all I've been trying to say.

    The Urgedanken of all racial wisdom.

  149. “Cruise is extremely attractive and has an almost insurmountable drive, focus and energy level. Cruise possesses an inhuman level of charisma in person. He stands out and draws people in like few others.”

    I know very few women who would agree with you.

  150. @DogAnecdote
    May I offer a brief anecdote that corresponds to your comment?

    For several years, I took my pit bull for early-morning walks in Griffith Park. If she saw another dog, regardless of its breed or size, she would run at it full speed and smash into it as an invitation to wrestle and play. Chihuahua or Great Dane, it made no difference.

    When she would see a coyote, she would freeze. Never once did she approach a coyote.

    Coyotes are close enough to dogs to be able to interbreed with them. As long as they are not moving (they have a distinctive gait), to most people coyotes look like dogs. Yet, to a dog, they are so different and so off-putting as to inspire a completely opposite set of behaviors; ie avoidance vs approach.

    A very suggestive anecdote.

    I am sure that we whites were the same until false morality came into the picture. The Chinese still react pretty much in that healthy way, one of the reasons they are about to inherit the earth.

    But Griffith Park? You and your pit bull saw coyotes in Griffith Park?

    The last time I drove by the place (in around 2012) I was appalled: it was a seething mass of brown faces and bodies (and they were not sunbathers).

    A shocking sight to anybody who remembered what it used to be like – not particularly elegant, indeed even rather shoddy, but at least a safe and liveable public space.

  151. @EdwardM

    Don’t know what Steve sees in him!
     
    Success. There has been no movie star as reliably bankable over the past 30-plus years. He has rarely made an unsuccessful movie. His roles may be narrower than those of other major stars but always showcase him well. And he has control over production most of the time.

    ” And he has control over production most of the time.”

    That’s obviously true in the case of his two Jack Reacher films. Imagine any other jockey-sized actor being cast as a 6’4″ behemoth like the Reacher character.

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