The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Is Hungary the World's Second Most Jewish Country?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From blog of a genetic testing company called My Heritage DNA:

Hungary’s Secret: New Study by MyHeritage Reveals that Hungary Has the World’s Second Largest Percentage of Population with Jewish Ancestry
By Esther ·
August 14, 2019

A new study that we’ve conducted in conjunction with expert statistician and demographer Dr. Daniel Staetsky has uncovered that there are surprising numbers of people descended from Jewish ancestors in Hungary — far higher than previously estimated by demographers.

Our analysis of a huge cohort of 1.8 million anonymized DNA tests — the first of its kind in Jewish demography research — has revealed that the country with the highest proportion of Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity after Israel is Hungary, and not the United States as was previously believed. After Israel, the top countries in terms of significant Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity were Hungary and Russia, followed by Argentina, South Africa, Ukraine, and then the USA.

So I imagine that they are counting people who are, say, 1/4th Jewish as Jewish in this. In the U.S., there aren’t yet a lot of people who are 1/4th Jewish, although there will be. When I look at list of old guys, like the Forbes 400 or the top political donors, most are either Jewish or gentile but not both. But, apparently, things are different in Hungary.

Update: They explain exactly what they are doing in terms of cut-offs below.

This shows that there is a significant number of people in Hungary who have a Jewish heritage background that they do not acknowledge, are not aware of, or that their ancestors intentionally repressed.

MyHeritage collaborated with Dr. Daniel Staetsky, Director of the European Jewish Demography Unit at the Institute for Jewish Policy Research, who conceived the study….

Among the 100 countries included in the research, the country that stood out with the highest percentage of Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity outside of Israel was Hungary. 7.6% of the 4,981 people living in Hungary who took the MyHeritage DNA test were found to have 25% or more Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity (equivalent to having at least one grandparent who is fully Ashkenazi Jewish). This is a significantly higher percentage than the 3.5% observed in DNA test-takers living in the USA and the 3.0% in Canada.

Keep in mind that people who are part Jewish might be more inclined to pay for a DNA test to find out than a random person.

Hungary’s lead grows further at lower thresholds for Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity. 12.5% of the people tested in Hungary have 10% or more Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity, compared to only 4.7% of people in the USA and 4.0% in Canada. Meanwhile, 4.2% of people tested in Hungary have 50% or more Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity (equivalent to having at least one parent who is fully Jewish), compared to 2.3% in the USA.

… Dr. Staetsky suggests accounting for a degree of selectivity of MyHeritage users. Since commercial genetic testing is an activity where the most educated and well-to-do classes of a society will be over-represented, he accounted for such selectivity, estimating the number of people with 50% or more Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity in Hungary as 130,000.

This is significantly higher than some recent estimates. Official statistics set the number of Jews in Hungary at only 10,965, according to the 2013 national census. Alternative estimates, such as the estimate produced by Professor Sergio DellaPergola, show that the number of people in Hungary who self-identify as Jews — for example, when asked in a survey — comes to 47,500 people or 0.49% of the population.

Larger estimates of the population with Jewish ancestry in Hungary, produced by Professor Andras Kovacs, give a range of 73,000 to 138,000 people with at least one Jewish parent. Thus, the estimate based on MyHeritage data aligns well with the high end of some demographic estimates, lending credibility to both the traditional demographic methods and to the novel estimates based on genetic testing.

Ashkenazi Jews throughout the past centuries have lived in isolated communities that developed unique genetic signatures. … Previous studies have found Ashkenazi Jews to be a clear, homogeneous genetic group. …

Jews have a long history in Hungary, with Jewish officials having served the king during the early 13th-century reign of Andrew II. By the early 20th century, the Jewish community constituted 5% of Hungary’s total population (comparable to MyHeritage’s findings) and Jews comprised 23% of the population of the capital, Budapest. Seven of the thirteen Nobel prize winners born in Hungary are Jewish. However, by 1941, over 17% of Budapest’s Jews were Roman Catholic converts, following coordinated pressure across Europe that began with the Spanish Inquisition in the late 15th century. Like many ethnic minorities in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Hungary’s Jews had rapidly assimilated in the decades preceding the Holocaust. In the Holocaust, about 560,000 of Hungary’s Jews were murdered. The trauma of the Holocaust and the subsequent communist rule led to portions of the Jewish community either being completely unaware of their Jewish identity or discouraged from divulging it. …

In Russia, the study revealed results similar to those in Hungary, with many more people having Jewish ethnicity than expected by demographers. 7.5% of the 5,266 DNA test-takers living in Russia had Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity of 25% or more, making it the country with the third-largest percentage of Jewish ethnicity in the world, after Israel and Hungary.

… When setting the threshold of Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity at 50% or more, the percentage in Russia drops to 3.1%, compared to 4.2% in Hungary. This indicates that in Russia, people who were ethnically Jewish tended to marry non-Jewish people at a greater frequency than in Hungary, which means that Jewish ethnicity in Russia is dissolving at a higher rate than in Hungary.

Here in the San Fernando Valley, there are now a whole bunch of people who are kind of Russian and kind of Jewish. Maybe they were born in the Soviet Union, qualified as Jewish enough to move to Israel, then bounced to L.A.

You don’t hear about them a lot, even though they congregate at the heart of the entertainment industry in places like West Hollywood and The Valley. One reason is because conventional American-born Jews are lately heavily into Russophobia, seeing Putin as the neo-Czar, so the existence of a lot of kind of Jewish Russians and kind of Russian Jews is disconcerting for the predominant worldview in which Russians are seen as dangerous anti-Semites.

Razib Khan points to intermarriage as early as 1780 for the diffusion of Jewish genes in Hungary:

A massive wave of demographic expansion occurred among Ashkenazi Jews after 1500. In the 18th-century Jewish fertility was far greater than gentile fertility in Poland. This resulted in an increase in the Jewish proportion over time, but likely also assimilation of some Jews into Christian society. The “Jewish Enlightenment”, spanning the 100 years between 1780 and 1880, was also a period when massive defections occurred from the more integrated elements of the Central European Jewry. Moses Mendelssohn’s last male descendant to practice Judaism died in 1871, after one century of assimilation and conversion.

Budapest was famous for smart Jews (e.g., John von Neumann), which I suspect correlates with early openness to intermarriage.

 
Hide 241 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Anonymous[202] • Disclaimer says:

    It is the European country that Jews say is most nazi-like. It all sort of makes sense as what is Zionism but ‘nazism for Jews’?

  2. My maternal grandparents escaped Hungary during the Holocaust.
    Even today, most Young Hungarians want to leave this shit hole of a country and move to Western Europe which according to Alt Right jokers is a third world region.
    Election of that Fascist called Orban will screw the entire EU. Many young Hungarian women move to France and Britain and build new relationships with the plethora of diverse men omnipresent in the West.
    In fact, European countries with highest levels of immigration have the best economies , highest standards of living and best sports teams and the countries in the East are poor, crime and depression ridden shitholes
    Why is that the case, Alt Right??
    Hopefully , someone will present rational arguments.

  3. Anon[191] • Disclaimer says:

    Considering how many world-class mathematicians they’ve produced, I’m not surprised.

    • Replies: @res
  4. @Anonymous

    Are you suggesting that the Neo-Nazi movement is a false flag operation?

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @ben tillman
  5. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    The percentage in Russia is surprising, given the large number of Jews and quasi-Jews who migrated to Israel from Russia.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @ben tillman
  6. R.G. Camara says: • Website

    So is it now ok for them to promote policies to keep their ethnicity intact?

    Perhaps the Irish and English and Italians should take a similar tact. Pay some corrupt scientists to announce that genetic testing has revealed that Country X is really one of the 10 lost tribes (as was once claimed about the Irish). or at least genetically 1/2 Jewish .

    Then Country X’s borders can be closed!

    Too bad we can’t do that here. After all, we’re a “nation of immigrants.”

  7. R.G. Camara says: • Website
    @M Krauthammar

    lol. 2/10 for your attempted troll. I gave you an extra point for your enthusiasm. Keep it up!

    • Replies: @Bill
  8. @M Krauthammar

    Hungary was never that developed to begin with. And Communism is a bitch to get over. Plus Hitler killed most of the high-productivity jews.

    Poland has been doing well for decades and closing its gap with the West. If Hungary’s lagging Poland I couldn’t tell you why. Unless it’s corrupt to the core like Ukraine.

    Oh yeah, you also asked why the good economies have more immigrants. That’s just because immigrants seek out good economies. Not because they make economies good.

  9. Russian Jews and other Russians in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn tend to support both Putin and Trump. I don’t read Russian, but from the posters you find in that neighborhood, there are some hard line right wingers in that community.

  10. R.G. Camara says: • Website
    @Hypnotoad666

    Relax man, he’s just Tiny Duck under a different name. Troll to the max. Ignore and laugh.

  11. Buzz Mohawk says: • Website

    This is not at all surprising, as it jibes with what my wife and I feel. She, a Hungarian mathematician, thinks she might have some Jewish ancestry.

    I tend to agree.

    We haven’t yet gotten DNA tests, partly because we keep forgetting to, but also because I am slightly paranoid about volunteering our genetic identity for who-knows-who’s files and God-knows-what possible use.

    But we probably will. I had one grandparent who is said to have been Askenazi, and the joke around our house is that we might be Jewish enough to just say we are and reap the benefits.

    Speaking of Jewish women I find interesting, this one has a Buddha statue in her home, just like we do:

  12. Wilkey says:
    @M Krauthammar

    In fact, European countries with highest levels of immigration have the best economies , highest standards of living and best sports teams and the countries in the East are poor, crime and depression ridden shitholes. Why is that the case, Alt Right?? Hopefully , someone will present rational arguments.

    The rich get richer, the poor stay poor. Eastern Europe’s economy was thoroughly wrecked by the Nazis and then by communists. When they emerged all of the wealth was in the West, and a lot of Eastern European talent was drawn here.

    It might have been better if the ex-Soviet countries in Eastern Europe had formed their own trade zone independent of the EU. Then more of their people and talent might have chosen to stay home.

    As it is Poland and Hungary both have incomes far higher than more diverse countries such as Brazil, Mexico, and China, and 40% higher than that of Russia.

    Immigrants are drawn into strong economies. They don’t create them. And once there only smart immigrants make those strong economies stronger.

    • Agree: Jesse
    • Replies: @International Jew
  13. M_Young says:
    @M Krauthammar

    “In fact, European countries with highest levels of immigration have the best economies , highest standards of living and best sports teams and the countries in the East are poor, crime and depression ridden shitholes”

    Other than sportsball, this is simply not the case. The standard of living in Budapest is easily on a par with Paris and beats London all to hell. Poland, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia all have homicide rates lower than Germany or Sweden.

  14. bispora says:

    “Budapest was famous for smart Jews (e.g., John von Neumann), which I suspect correlates with early openness to intermarriage.”

    von Neumann had jewish wifes: Marietta Kövesi and later Klára Dán but we have a better example for the statement- George Schwartz…

    “Soros has been married three times and divorced twice. In 1960, he married Annaliese Witschak (born January 3, 1934). Annaliese was an ethnic German immigrant, who had been orphaned during the war. Although she was not Jewish, she was well-liked by Soros’s parents as she had also experienced the privation and displacement brought about by World War II.[81] They divorced in 1983. They had three children.”
    “In 2008, Soros met his current wife, Tamiko M. Bolton, who was born October 18, 1971 and is 42 years his junior;[87] he married her on September 21, 2013.[88] Bolton is the daughter of a Japanese-American nurse and a retired naval commander, Robert J. Bolton”

  15. Wilkey says:

    After Israel, the top countries in terms of significant Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity were Hungary and Russia, followed by Argentina, South Africa, Ukraine, and then the USA.

    Hungary, Russia, Argentina, South Africa and Ukraine: all the best, richest countries in the world.

    A short time ago there was a big kerfuffle when some talking head stated that only countries with lots of Jews can succeed. Well there are plenty of wealthy countries without many Jews (in absolute or relative terms) and plenty of poor countries, apparently, with relatively high numbers of Jews or Jewish admixture. A few years before he died former New York Mayor Ed Koch made a similar claim.

    Ethnically I am mostly British. I love my people and am proud of our contributions to the world, but I would never claim that a country can’t succeed without lots of British people, and it would certainly be racist to do so, just as it is racist when Jews claim the same thing.

  16. @Buzz Mohawk

    Marianne Williamson strikes me as a sincere and kind person. She is the only candidate discussing our political and social problems as a spiritual crisis. I might not agree with her solutions, but like Yang, she is at least interesting and attempting to address the deeper problems are society is facing.

    I hope she manages to stay in the race and push the spiritual issue further.

  17. Lot says:

    “One reason is because conventional American-born Jews are lately heavily into Russophobia”

    I know you can find some Internet anecdotes to support this, but they seem to fall into a few unrepresentative piles:

    1. Ancient complaints about how grama fled a Russian pogrom by SJWs who feel the need to engage in competitive victimhood, cause that’s the best they can do.

    2. Putin isn’t LPGA-friendly enough

    3. Superhawks ginning up anything they can to justify more money for the defense contractors that fund their think tanks.

    4. Borat being from a fake Uzbekistan-type central asian ex-USSR country is subliminal Russian or maybe Polackophobia.

    But as evidence “conventional American-born Jews are lately heavily into Russophobia” this falls badly short.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @peterike
    , @ben tillman
  18. J.Ross says:
    @Anonymous

    Political lying, Orban is friends with Bibi, the people paid activists are calling Nazis want policies that Israelis take for granted like border security.

    • Agree: PV van der Byl
  19. J.Ross says:
    @Lot

    Apart from Lord of War (which came out years ago and takes pains to hasbarize that its Brighton Beach Eastern Cousins were lying about their Jewishness) name one recent pop cultural product that mentions these people.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  20. From the article:

    The trauma of the Holocaust and the subsequent communist rule led to portions of the Jewish community either being completely unaware of their Jewish identity or discouraged from divulging it

    This raises some interesting questions about the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis.

    As I understand it, one of the methods used to estimate this number is to look at the number of European Jews before WW II and the number after. If the post-war number is artificially deflated by people no longer claiming to be Jews, this will alter the estimate for those murdered in the Holocaust.

    For the record: no, I am not suggesting the Holocaust did not happen. I have looked at the claims made by Holocaust deniers, and I find their claims unconvincing. I am just discussing historiographical details about how the exact number of victims is estimated.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  21. Lot says:

    “12.5% of the people tested in Hungary have 10% or more Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity, compared to only 4.7% of people in the USA and 4.0% in Canada.”

    Well are we actually that interested in the Ashkenazi mixture among US minorities? The non-hispanic white figure would be more interesting and probably about 4.7%/.61 = 7.7% of US non-hispanic whites. Still below Hungary and similar to Russia.

    As for people with 10-20% AJ ancestry, I don’t see why they’d be greatly more likely to get DNA tests because of higher economic status, mainly because they wouldn’t be much higher. There might be a little assortive non-random mating effect, but by the time you get to people with just 1 AJ great-grandparent the effect is probably pretty small, and the expected IQ boost from the 1/8 AJ ancestry is less than 2 points.

    And there’s a big countervailing effect: 23andme for pure AJs is kinda boring. You’re 100% AJ, how surprising! Also, here are hundreds of false-positive 3rd cousins. And the Orthodox ones may have some religious issues with it. So full AJs are probably undercounted.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    , @Jack D
  22. Here in the San Fernando Valley, there are now a whole bunch of people who are kind of Russian and kind of Jewish.

    That describes the only white teenagers in our old St Paul neighborhood. They had come young enough that they didn’t have accents. They spent maybe a decade in our “affordable” zone and moved on to better things. A number of them got their first jobs at the local Supervalu.

    I noticed that one edgy girl had subtly and strategically placed opaque tape on her name tag. It read **PERV***

    You can’t say they hadn’t assimilated.

    And she was savvier than the marketers at Supervalu. Unless it was subliminal.

  23. Jesse says:

    People in Hungary might be looking a little harder for Jewish ancestry simply because the current leadership is so philosemitic and clearly basing their future plans on Israel.

    You’d want to compare the effect of a leader like Orban – who clearly loves Jews -on what people choose to emphasize, compared to a leadership that doesn’t care or is hostile.

  24. LondonBob says:
    @Anonymous

    The Jewish master race must have lebensraum to the East, the untermensch Palestinians must be subjugated and destroyed!

  25. LondonBob says:

    Correct Steve, who in Europe apart from those with unusual heritage will take such tests? I know where all my grandparents were born so I know my background, such a test holds no value to the overwhelming majority of Europeans.

  26. LondonBob says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    The Communists killed and exiled a lot of the high performing Hungarian goyim, both in the twenties under (((Bela Kun))) and then after the second world war, but then who cares about that? There are few books, studies and films on that subject.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @anonymous
  27. Buzz Mohawk says: • Website
    @Clifford Brown

    I don’t seriously support Williamson for President, but I want her campaign to thrive. I would like to see her in more debates and getting more media attention. This is partly for my own entertainment but also for the reasons you state.

    (In case you haven’t observed from all the crap I post here, I think the “clown world” we live in is one big joke. I take it simultaneously seriously and not. Nothing is real, but I know — not just believe — that there is real, not subjective, truth, and that God exists. I am a modern deist who makes fun of things.)

    I think it is wonderful to see Hungary and its people featured here. The whole Jew thing is to me another joke, a self-inflicted separation that is less real than everyone thinks. (But that’s just me not taking Jews and non-Jews seriously, as I am wont to do about everything.)

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  28. @Wilkey

    Immigrants are drawn into strong economies. They don’t create them.

    Maybe true about the US. Not so when it comes to Germans and Jews who settled in eastern Europe from about 1300-1900.

  29. Lot says:

    In terms of diluted AJ contribution to national white population, I’d expect the highest to be Germany, Austria, Poland, and Hungary in the 3-5% range, and Netherlands and England to be 1-2%. Lithuania and Ukraine could also be around 1%

    I think it is higher in Germany/Hungary than someplace like Ukraine because there was more conversion and intermarriage. As an example of someone who was possibly entirely AJ in ancestry but also with all four of his grandparents and several of his great grandparents Christians, Georg Cantor:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor

  30. J.Ross says:
    @LondonBob

    That’s one, I had seen that and forgotten it. So that’s two movies and then Moscow on the Hudson. And none of those is talking about the group Steve described, all three of those are about the late 70s and early 80s east coast.

  31. @Lot

    23andme for pure AJs is kinda boring. You’re 100% AJ, how surprising!

    Yep, it was quite the yawner. I’d want to know how much of me is Yamnaya, Near East farmer, pre-ice-age European. Or, looking at more recent time, how much Judaean exile and how much Italian wife. 23AndMe doesn’t say anything about those things.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @william munny
  32. J.Ross says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Y’know, about a month back there was a thread that got into Hungarians, and then someone pointed out Hungarian Nobel winners, and then someone else pointed that that a lot of Hungarian Nobel winners are Jewish. This left the counter that, whereas a lot of national Nobel lists turn out to be lists of Jewish nationals, Hungarians actually have a respectable showing of Hungarians. But now …

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  33. Lot says:
    @International Jew

    You can get more ancient ancestry data by downloading the raw file and using other software and sites to analyze it. Razib has a list somewhere.

    But really it would just be the same as your thousands of “third cousins.”

  34. @Lot

    Yeah, the low % in Poland must reflect an extraordinarily low degree of assimilation, as Jews were 1/6 of Poland in 1939 — by far the highest fraction in any country then.

    Hungary, on the other hand, got more than its share of assimilated Jews. In the times of the Austro-Hungarian empire (ie until WW1), Hungary was the destination for the most ambitious and secularized Jews from the heavily Jewish outlying provinces, especially Galicia.

  35. @International Jew

    I believe that Wilkey meant contemporary (2019) immigrants.
    Counterinsurgency

  36. Anon[591] • Disclaimer says:

    If they are able to tell how people many are what percentage Jewish, it seems that they could compute an approximate dejewification velocity. In other words, the rate at which their Jews are admixing, and compare that country to country. The ratio of full Jews to 15/16th Jews, to 7/8th Jews and so on to 1/16. You’d need a Nick Patterson type to come up with the math to do this. Negative dejewification would show places that Jews were moving to and were maintaining their endogamous relationships. It would also be interesting to know the dejewification velocity for localities, such as New York City vs. Los Angeles.

  37. Bill P says:

    Hungary is pretty much in the middle of European populations that likely contributed to the founder population of Ashkenazi Jews (along with those directly from the Levant), isn’t it? Couldn’t that affect the statistics to some extent? Maybe Hungarians are most similar to the ancestral European component of Ashkenazi Jews.

    Here’s some food for thought.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  38. Clifford Brown wrote:

    Marianne Williamson strikes me as a sincere and kind person. She is the only candidate discussing our political and social problems as a spiritual crisis.

    Williamson is a slick con artist with a Messiah complex.

    But that does raise the question of what has gone wrong.

    In the first seven decades of the twentieth century, the lives of ordinary people in the USA improved dramatically: telephones, electric refrigerators, penicillin, automobiles, electric washing machines and dishwashers, air conditioning and gas heating, etc. I am just old enough to remember the evening ritual of washing dishes by hand, sweltering through the summer’s heat, and even a few people who still had coal-fired furnaces (does anyone today still know how to “bank” the coal fire for the night?).

    In 1969, the life of the average American man, and even more the average American woman, was very different than in 1930. Fortunately, I’m a bit too young to remember the daily visits of the “iceman” or fear of dying from a bacterial infection.

    For adults in the 1960s, “progress” was real.

    Ordinary Americans in 1969 had a much higher standard of living than their grandparents in 1900.

    And, just for a topping, we sent men to the moon, split the atom, and discovered the mechanism of heredity.

    And, what have we done in the last fifty years?

    We’ve given the masses PlayStations, cell phones, and Wii (does anyone still play with Wii?).

    If life expectancy in 2019 were 110 years, if the normal working week were 25 hours in 2019, if transportation were actually better in 2019 than in 1969, if ordinary working people’s standard of living had improved as much between 1969 and 2019 as it did in the half century before 1969… would we have a “spiritual crisis” today?

    I think I have some idea what happened: talk to old hands in manufacturing, and you will find that manufacturing productivity per actual worker out on the shop floor just exploded between 1950 and 1995 (that was my dad’s working career, all in old-line manufacturing). But those productivity increases were just eaten up and absorbed by the so-called “service economy,” which is largely a euphemism for the unproductive and deeply corrupt bureaucracies that have taken over education, medicine, finance, and so many other areas.

    But, regardless of the cause, we need to face up to the fact that the golden promise of “progress” that kept our grandparents’ and earlier generations going has ceased.

    And, yeah, people are really unhappy as a result. People can be very unhappy for a fairly long time before some precipitating event causes the explosion.

    But it will come. And it will not be pretty. And I do not think Marianne Williamson or Andrew Yang or Donald Trump or anyone on the “Alt-Right” has any idea how to deal with it.

    At all.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @peterike
  39. Bill P says:
    @Bill P

    Is html disabled here?

    Anyway, I meant to post this link:

    https://hungarianspectrum.org/2013/01/19/khazars-hungarians-and-judaism/

    Seems there was a Jewish connection to the early Hungarians.

    I also tend to believe Elhaik’s conclusion that the Iranic component of Ashkenazi Jews is pretty strong, because it jibes with history, theology and even the etymology of the ethnonym “Ashkenazi” itself (means Scythian in Hebrew).

  40. Buzz Mohawk says: • Website
    @J.Ross

    Yep, I noticed that, and I remember that thread. Might have even participated in it.

    Einstein is supposed to have said that the Germans claim him as a German and the Jews claim him as a Jew. As a kid I always thought of him as German because I hadn’t been exposed to all the divisive bullshit yet. I barely knew what a Jew was, but some were my neighbors and classmates. They were, you know, Americans.

    If Albert had been born in the United States and done his miracle 1905 work while working for the US Patent Office, he would have been an American. We here have had, I think, more real Nobel winners than anyone else, and I believe a majority of them have not been Jewish. Regardless, we correctly identify all of the winners as Americans. (The gentile population of the United States is so much bigger than the Jewish that there are far more brilliant gentiles than brilliant Jews here — even though anti-gentilism has turned that fact upside down for admissions to elite universities, as Unz has shown.)

    As for Hungarians and Jews, my wife says the same thing about both: They are either very smart or very stupid. I think that means both have big left and right tails on the Bell Curve. There are brilliant Magyars who are just Magyar, and some who are kind of crazy. I’ve met both kinds there, and I’ve certainly met both kinds of Jews here.

    What I think this study tells us is that there is overlap and a history of intermarriage in the Hungarian population and that they are all more alike than assumed. What this should tell the Ashkenazim is that they are not such an isolated, special group as they think they are.

  41. Now, analyse the clientele of Zabar’s.

  42. @M Krauthammar

    In fact, European countries with highest levels of immigration have the best economies , highest standards of living ….

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc … there’s a chance there might be causation in the direction you suggest, but it is far more likely that countries with the best economies attract more immigrants.

  43. Kronos says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    The REAL M. Krauthammer died last year and was paralyzed from the neck down due to a swimming injury a few decades ago (look before your plunge.) So it’s very likely this guy is not that neoconservative from the grave.

    I know you know this Hyp but I’m trying to help spread the message. This thread must remain vigilant against the likes of him and Tiny Dick.

    • Replies: @Peter Lund
  44. George says:

    And if you can’t trust MyHeritage.com who can you trust? WWI propaganda is what you can trust!!!

    If I remember my WWI propaganda correctly all the ‘Hunnic’ type Eastern Europeans are descended from Ghengis Khan. Which would make them all cousins of the Azhenzazi, descended from the Khazar Khanate.

    If I remember right Alsworth Ross describes the lineage of the Magyars to the Mongol hoard, among other ‘European’ type races that are making their way to the US.

    The Old world in the New; the significance of past and present … Ross, Edward Alsworth, 1914
    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015001144909&view=1up&seq=66

  45. @PhysicistDave

    Combination of stats & other, mostly historical & forensic accounts & investigations.

    Then, there are difficulties: do you count a Jew who was killed in the battle as a Soviet or Polish soldier? What about converts who were killed not as Jews, but as members of some other “unpleasant” group? Communists liquidated as Communists, without knowing their ethnicity?

    By the way- who is a Jew?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    , @Old Jew
  46. Anonymous[698] • Disclaimer says:
    @LondonBob

    The Béla Kun régime did not survive 1919 and was succeeded by over 20 years of Horthy, who was quite anti-Semitic.

  47. @Bardon Kaldian

    Yeah, by the nature of things, such numbers can never be exact.

    I recently saw a figure significantly higher than normal for the dead from the War Between the States: my guess is that they upped the civilian death toll. Or maybe they counted soldiers who died of war injuries long after the fighting had stopped.

    What I always do find extremely humorous is the very precise figures on how many teenagers have used drugs in the last month, had sex in the last month, etc.

    I’m amazed that there are any teenagers stupid enough to answer “Yes” to such questions when asked by a government official!

    The libertarian sociologist Jack Douglas has written about how many of the suppoisedly precise government statistics are largely bogus.

  48. @International Jew

    If you download your raw data and upload it to GEDMatch, which is free, there are various calculators that will set that all out for you. Pretty easy.

  49. The population of Hungary is a little under 10 million. The population of New York City is about a million less. I bet the “country” of NYC has Hungary beat by a comfortable margin. (The population of the NYC metro area is about 20 million…)

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  50. Anne Lid says:

    The trauma of the Holocaust and the subsequent communist rule led to portions of the Jewish community either being completely unaware of their Jewish identity or discouraged from divulging it

    After the ’56 revolution the order from the SU was that the frontman had to be a goy. Rakosi (his father was born Rosenfeld) and most of his his crew were Jewish. (A pertinent fact I had not realised until I was well into adulthood.) Hence we got Janos Kadar.
    I have no problem if the famous mathematicians and physicists claim to be more Jewish than Hungarian. They still had their education in Christian Hungarian schools. Besides, there is a streak of cruelty that I don’t care abut. Neumann was brought up in an exceedingly rich, opulent family. He thought that bombing Japan was a solid idea.
    I knew a couple of Jews in eastern Hungary, who were kind to me and had no problem divulging their Jewishness. They were not a penny more wealthy than the plain Hungarians around me. I am guessing that being secretive about it was for those who did make unbecoming gains through their ethnic connections. My brother nearly married a Jewish girl, but Jewishness had nothing to do with my brother’s choice, only that she looked nice and had a good personality. Later he married a girl with a slightly exotic face. Her father, towards the end of his life, told them that he was born out of wedlock to a Jewish dentist and his maid. (My brother joked that his wife turned from a salon nazi into a klezmer lover overnight.) The dentist was not a bad guy, rented a small apartment for them and the child went to a vocational school, so he took care of his second family, but obviously not at the same level as his lawful family. My brother’s father-in-law was obviously hurt by his fatherlessness and was almost prissy.

  51. LondonBob says:
    @Anonymous

    The Horthy government was mildly anti-Jewish due to what happened during Bela Khun’s short lived regime and what was happening in the former Russian Empire.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  52. jim jones says:
    @Clifford Brown

    If there is such a thing as the spirit how can it be affected by chemicals such as alcohol?

  53. Now we know why Hungary has a wall.

  54. Anon55uu says:

    There’s a chef on Australian TV called Ed Halmagyi who knows of his Hungarian-Jewish background, but identifies his heritage as just Hungarian. His Hungarian food seems basically Hungarian rather than very jewish:

    http://www.fast-ed.com.au/recipes/?filter=true&category=1583#body

  55. anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:
    @M Krauthammar

    #8 among the 10 fastest shrinking countries. At least it’s not as bad as Latvia.

  56. Hans says:

    Razib Khan overlooks the effect of vigorous whittling down of the native Hungarian population by (((Bela Kun et al))). While they may not have attained their dreams, they no doubt set such an example that the survivors were in awe and envy ever after.

    Great collection of photos of the contrasting phenotypes of the victim and victimizer classes: http://jrbooksonline.com/some_pics_from_cecile_tormay.htm

    David Irving’s book, Uprising, has all the details. Cécile Tormay’s two-volume work, An Outlaw’s Diary, is also excellent. Was shocked, simply shocked, to see that the (((Commies))) had implemented “sex-ed” for the kiddies despite being so busy with other tasks.

    Uprising! Hungary 1956: One Nation’s Nightmare: https://irvingbooks.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17590&cat=0&page=1

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @Hans
  57. anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:

    How come Hungarians don’t seem very smart? Of the 20 Nobel Prize winners produced by Hungary is there a single non-Jewish person?

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @J.Ross
  58. anonymous[259] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Horthy anti-semitic?

    Please.

    He literally let sephardic Jews from Greece and the balkans find refuge there during ww2.

  59. anonymous[259] • Disclaimer says:

    I am curious about these results. Was there a particular pressure in Hungary to assimilate/ go crypto? Is it because the magyars are so different to other Europeans? Jews usually feel threatened by a strong identity amongst an outgroup.

  60. Not surprising in the least. Lots of Khazars accompanied the original Magyars. They continued entering right into the High Middle Ages, as Arthur Koestler illustrates in “The Thirteenth Tribe”.

  61. Realist says:

    Razib Khan points to intermarriage as early as 1780 for the diffusion of Jewish genes in Hungary:

    Budapest was famous for smart Jews (e.g., John von Neumann), which I suspect correlates with early openness to intermarriage.

    Why would Jews need to intermarry to be in Hungary? They could immigrate to Hungary and marry among themselves.

  62. anonymous[115] • Disclaimer says:
    @LondonBob

    The Communists killed and exiled a lot of the high performing Hungarian goyim, both in the twenties under (((Bela Kun)))

    quite a feat (!) considering that communist rule collapsed after only a few months in 1919 and Hungary was ruled throughout the 20s by the anti-communist Horthy regime, with Kun never setting foot back in Hungary after 1919.

    • Agree: Dissident
  63. Anon[102] • Disclaimer says:

    All in all I’m glad I’m one of ((them)). Dad was a reddish haired man with grey eyes born in Telehan a village outside of Pinsk in 1899. Mom was a short brunette with dark skin born on Hester St. in 1898.

    As for DNA, a lawer in Tel-Aviv who specialized in fast-tracking Israeli citizenship told me by phone that the government did not accept DNA evidence, relying rather on paperwork. If you don’t have the paperwork, the best workaround was to join a synogogue and get its rabbi to write a letter vouching for your genuineness.

  64. Realist says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I had one grandparent who is said to have been Askenazi, and the joke around our house is that we might be Jewish enough to just say we are and reap the benefits.

    Word of mouth ‘genealogy’ is usually wrong.

    The word is Ashkenazi.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  65. Buzz Mohawk says: • Website
    @Interested Bystander

    Oh it’s got it way beat. Israel on the Hudson. Almost as many as Palestine itself, if you include the whole megalopolis here.

    There probably are not any more Hungarians in the world now than there are Jews, and they don’t get much attention. They have been through Hell and back, and are gallantly holding on to what was left of their country after pieces were trimmed off and fed to the neighbors. But you hardly ever hear about them, and victimhood is not their self-identity. It is not their tool.

    No, they get called Nazis for protecting their now-modest homeland from invasion and deciding who gets to come in.

    Double standard, anyone?

  66. FredR says:

    When I did 23andme, my Ashkenazi ancestry resulted in a few matches at the 4th-5th cousin level with random Hungarians, a couple of whom messaged me, utterly baffled as to why we shared ancestry.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  67. Tony Curtis was a Hungarian Jew.

  68. peterike says:
    @Lot

    But as evidence “conventional American-born Jews are lately heavily into Russophobia” this falls badly short.

    I’d suggest you start by checking out heavily Jewish CNN and their endless Russia!! narrative, then move on to, you know, pretty much every other news and quasi-news outlet, as well as Jewish blue-check Twitter, and then get back to us on how you failed to notice the blatantly obvious.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Lot
  69. peterike says:
    @PhysicistDave

    But, regardless of the cause, we need to face up to the fact that the golden promise of “progress” that kept our grandparents’ and earlier generations going has ceased.

    And, yeah, people are really unhappy as a result. People can be very unhappy for a fairly long time before some precipitating event causes the explosion.

    But it will come. And it will not be pretty. And I do not think Marianne Williamson or Andrew Yang or Donald Trump or anyone on the “Alt-Right” has any idea how to deal with it.

    Nonsense. Our unhappiness is political and spiritual and doesn’t have anything to do with stalled progress, other than the knock-on effects of outsourced manufacturing (stalled wage growth leading to relative impoverishment of white working class), which is exactly what ended the technological progress.

    Why are we unhappy? Multiculturalism, for one, is socially toxic, and it has now struck virtually every corner of the nation, other than a few super-rich enclaves. The Alt-Right knows exactly what to do about it, but unfortunately the Powers That Be are virulently in favor of it and the Alt-Right has no power. Hell, Trump can’t even throw the blatantly criminal Hillary in jail.

    We’re also unhappy because of Hollywood-driven sexual mores, which are destructive. And from all the usual social pathologies we talk about around here: feminism (incredibly destructive to happiness), GloboHomo, minoritarianism, rabidly anti-white media, etc. etc.

    As for the coming “explosion,” put me down in the doubters camp. I mean, I want there to be one, but I think American whites will be like the whites in England and Germany and Sweden, and just collapse under the endless assaults upon them. Give in and give up.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  70. snorlax says:
    @International Jew

    Key word being “settled.” That’s an example of Steve’s immigrant vs. settler distinction.

  71. Jake says:

    “Here in the San Fernando Valley, there are now a whole bunch of people who are kind of Russian and kind of Jewish. Maybe they were born in the Soviet Union, qualified as Jewish enough to move to Israel, then bounced to L.A.”

    Have you seen the Nicholas Cage film Lord of War? Cage’s family is part of the “Jewish’ exodus from the USSR to the NTC area. Cage’s character says they were not Jewish but claimed it to get out.

    There is no such thing as a Russian Mafia without a very high percentage of Jews and part-Jews, with similar numbers of peoples who are at least part Turkic.

  72. @Anonymous

    It is the European country that Jews say is most nazi-like.

    Jews in the media say it because it’s the current globalist party line because the Hungarians won’t let in Muslims. Really nothing to do with Zionism.

    Furthermore, that subset of Jews who control the media do not control the Jews. Because no one does.

  73. utu says:

    Can MyHeritage be trusted? What is a political angle of this study?

  74. Anonymous[144] • Disclaimer says:

    The title is almost deceptive because, as the article makes clear, while 7.6% of Hungarians have at last 25% Jewish ancestry, so do 7.5% of Russians (0.1% difference), and Russia has a population fourteen times larger.

    Here’s a hypothesis for the “Holocaust Deniers” to throw around: Most of the Jews who were ‘exterminated’ by the Nazis ended up surviving the war in the Soviet Union.

    In Russia, the study revealed results similar to those in Hungary, with many more people having Jewish ethnicity than expected by demographers. 7.5% of the 5,266 DNA test-takers living in Russia had Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity of 25% or more, making it the country with the third-largest percentage of Jewish ethnicity in the world, after Israel and Hungary. The larger size of Russia’s population (about 144 million) means that, in absolute numbers, the number of people with Jewish ethnicity there is very substantial. When setting the threshold of Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity at 50% or more, the percentage in Russia drops to 3.1%, compared to 4.2% in Hungary. This indicates that in Russia, people who were ethnically Jewish tended to marry non-Jewish people at a greater frequency than in Hungary, which means that Jewish ethnicity in Russia is dissolving at a higher rate than in Hungary.

    For hundreds of years prior to the Holocaust, Poland had been home to the largest and most significant Jewish community in the world. Poland was a principal center of Jewish culture, thanks to a long period of statutory religious tolerance and social autonomy. In the Holocaust, an estimated 3 million Polish Jews were killed. The study explored how many people who are ethnically Jewish still live in Poland today. MyHeritage DNA tests have only been recently made available for purchase in Poland. Of the 2,321 DNA test-takers in Poland, only 1.2% had Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity of 25% or more, compared to 7.6% in Hungary and 7.5% in Russia.

    7.5% of Russians having 25% or more Jewish ancestry is shockingly high to me, esp., when compared to the figures for other countries (3.5% in USA quite in line with what you would expect for a nation that’s 2% ‘Jewish’). I seem to recall reading Russia was less than 1% Jewish (in fact, it’s currently claimed that Russia has a Jewish population of 176,000 or 0.12%). Also, consider the figures given here for Russia’s Jewish demographics before and after WWII.

    3.1% * 144 million = 4.46 million and 7.5% * 144 million = 10.8 million in Russia alone (omitting Ukraine, Belarus, etc). This is after their supposedly vast emigration to Israel and the U.S. in which the significant majority of them fled. In a way, to a “Holocaust Denier” discovering 4.5 million half-Jews and an additional 6.3 million quarter Jews where only perhaps 10% of that figure should be present from official demographics figures is really mana from heaven.

    Two other possibilities are that, as mentioned elsewhere, maybe there’s self-selection in test taking, or perhaps MyHeritage’s test results are just wrong, and overestimate Jewish ancestry. Given that it’s an Israeli company, this wouldn’t surprise me. A large part of their customer base probably consists of Jews (or ‘Jews’) looking for a connection to their Jewish roots. Redoing this analysis with the classification algorithms of the other major DNA testing companies may be useful. Then again, the Polish figure apparently shows no sign of inflation either due to the DNA classification algorithm or self-selection (factors which could still obviously be acting differently in Poland than in Hungary/Russia, I just don’t know why that would be).

    (Were Soviet Jews highly fecund in the post-WWII Soviet Union?)

    • Replies: @blake121666
    , @kaganovitch
  75. @Kronos

    You are getting your Krauthammers mixed up.

    M. died of cancer in January 2006, C. died of cancer in June 2017. C. was the one who was paralyzed.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/the-krauthammer-boys-charles-and-marcel

    • Replies: @Kronos
  76. Svevlad says:

    I see that the Jews are seething at the fact that there exist people with Jewish ancestry that don’t consider themselves Jews. It’s like 1-drop autism!

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  77. Billiam says:

    “either Jewish or gentile…”

    LOL. Always the upper case and lower case with you guys. Always the proper noun and the common.

  78. Hungary: (is 2nd most jewish country in the world)

    Hungary: (elects the most legitimate pro-White leader, who actually gets stuff done for his people)

    Internet right wingers: “Jews are the eternal enemy of Whites”

    Honk Honk

    Bottom Text

  79. Jack D says:
    @Lot

    And the Orthodox ones may have some religious issues with it.

    What religious issues? The Orthodox were pioneers in genetic testing because of the frequency of Jewish genetic diseases.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  80. Jack D says:
    @FredR

    utterly baffled as to why we shared ancestry.

    Tell them to ask their grandma who her grandma was. Was she perhaps named Kohn?

  81. @M Krauthammar

    Bad trolling attempt, but Orban’s daughter is scum for dumping a dirty diaper on the road.

  82. Budapest was famous for smart Jews (e.g., John von Neumann), which I suspect correlates with early openness to intermarriage.

    If only smart goyim like Konrad Zuse, the inventor of the world’s first programmable digital computer, had PR machinery like Zionist media or the LGTBQ mafia that has put one of its own on the new British £50 note.

    https://www.german-way.com/notable-people/featured-bios/konrad-zuse/

    • Replies: @snorlax
  83. One reason is because conventional American-born Jews are lately heavily into Russophobia

    I don’t think it actually has much to with Putin/Cossacks etc. I suspect a lot of American Jewish dislike of Russians is based on the bad experiences American Jews had with the type of Russian Jews who emigrated to the US post 1991. Just as German Jews in American considered Yiddish speaking Galician Jews uncouth and embarrassing in 1909, modern educated American Jews find Soviet Jews kind of horrifying and feral. Anecdotal example – I had a Jewish colleague who rented apartments to Soviet Jewish immigrants in the early 1990s. The tenants ripped out all the fixtures, sold them, and disappeared. He told me he had never seen anything like it (unsaid but understood “even with black tenants”).

    • Replies: @peterike
    , @Dmitry
  84. rashomoan says:

    If this is true, can we assume it explains why, like Israel, Hungary fiercely defends its borders against migrants…

  85. a reader says:
    @Anonymous

    The Béla Kun régime did not survive 1919 and was succeeded by over 20 years of Horthy, who was quite anti-Semitic.

    Commenter LondonBob wrote: and then after the second world war…

    Mátyás Rákosi (born Mátyás Rosenfeld)

    Approximately 350,000 officials and intellectuals were purged under his rule, from 1948 to 1956. Rákosi imposed totalitarian rule on Hungary — arresting, jailing and killing both real and imagined foes in various waves of Stalin-inspired political purges.

    Ernő Gerő (born Ernő Singer)

    Mihály Farkas (born Hermann Lőwy)

    Gerő and Mihály Farkas were Rákosi’s right-hand men.

    … but then who cares about that? There are few books, studies and films on that subject. LondonBob

    • Replies: @a reader
  86. How many phucking Jews do these people think there are in Hungary?

    I guess a whole of Jews.

    Arthur Koestler was a Hungarian Jew who spoke many languages and was a good dinner guest, except for one thing. Apparently Hungarian Jewish guy Arthur Koestler was an inveterate horndog and he couldn’t resist trying to make the moves on the wife of the guy who invited him to dinner.

    The story is that the guys would tell Arthur Koestler to behave himself and not try any funny stuff with their wives, but as soon as Arthur Koestler saw his host’s wife bend over to check the pot roast this horndog bastard Koestler would make a running seduction attempt.

    Blue-Eyed Devil Jews From Hungary Have Now Infiltrated Every Portion Of The Globe And They Want World Domination.

    Bela Kun(Kohn) Was A Murderous Bolshevik Jew Who Butchered And Killed Many Hungarians And Many Others. In 1919 and around that time this Bolshevik Jew Bela Kohn killed many European Christians.

    Hungarians and Ukrainians and Russians and many other European Christian people have a right to be pissed off about all these Bolshevik Jews who butchered and tortured their ancestors and their nations!

    Start off with Koestler light humour and then right to the damn Jew Bolsheviks! That’s how you do it!

    Decent Jews need to atone and apologize for the Bolshevik Jew Butchers who have killed so many with their murderous hatred for European Christians and European Christendom and European Christian nations.

    Bolshevik Jews are at this very moment pushing nation-killing mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and multicultural mayhem.

  87. a reader says:
    @a reader

    Mátyás Rákosi later joked that the revolution’s Jewish leaders took the gentile Garbai in so that they would have somebody to sign the death sentences on Shabbat.

  88. BB753 says:

    How do you explain the strange case of the vanishing American Jews? I once read a study that stated that at least 10 % of American Whites were fully or partially Jewish. That was 15 years ago or so. Crypsis?

  89. peterike says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I suspect a lot of American Jewish dislike of Russians is based on the bad experiences American Jews had with the type of Russian Jews who emigrated to the US post 1991.

    No. It’s really quite simple. In the Yeltsin era, Russia was looted by Jews. A combined force of American Jews (Larry Summers among them) plus selected Russian Jews utterly looted Russia, causing vast amounts of human misery and giving us the phenomenon of the “Russian Oligarch,” who was almost never Russian.

    It was all peachy keen until Putin showed up and started to claw Russian resources back from the Oligarchs (plus promoting Russian Orthodoxy and pushing back on GloboHomo). Some Oligarchs he killed (good for him), some left and infested Europe and America, some played ball and are still there enjoying their wealth.

    Powerful Jews were incensed by this, and it’s only powerful Jews that matter when it comes to setting the media narrative. Your typical Jewish dentist may not care one way or the other, but it’s the few thousands of media controlling Jews that tell the rest of us what to think.

    So during the Communist and Oligarch days, Jewish media was content with Russia, which was essentially a Jewish vassal state. Putin ticked them off by shifting the balance of power. Indeed, nearly all the “opposition” leaders in Russia are Jews. What a surprise. To say nothing of the Twitter blue check mark crowd of Russia haters.

    Naturally, the history of Jewish looting has been severely repressed in American media, and most people haven’t the slightest idea what happened.

    PS – Marc Rich was another of the looters. Steve wrote about this way back on the original iSteve blog:
    https://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/06/marc-rich.html

  90. Anonymous[272] • Disclaimer says:

    Budapest was famous for smart Jews (e.g., John von Neumann), which I suspect correlates with early openness to intermarriage.

    What does this mean?

    That smarter Jews tend to intermarry?
    That the smarter Jews tend to be the product of some intermixing?

    What does the “early” qualifier in front of “openness” mean?

  91. @Wilkey

    However, countries populated with or founded by British people do seem to succeed and are nicer places to live – just ask the huddled masses etc, etc.

  92. Old Jew says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Your question:

    By the way- who is a Jew?

    Answer:

    I am.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  93. Anne Lid says:
    @Anonymous

    Look at them Hun nazis on the tube!

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  94. jej says:
    @M Krauthammar

    Quit the pseudo-jew stuff, th commentariot here isn’t smart enough to figure it out. Hell they still think tiny duck is an actual leftist. be your own stormfront self, you’ll feel (a little) better.

  95. Dmitry says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    At the moment, Russia is the country with the most people of Jewish ancestry, outside of America and Israel

    It will be at least 1-2 million people (or more) in Russia now, who could qualify for Israeli citizens, by ancestry (one Jewish grandparent).

    This is not measured in the census, because vast majority will write their nationality as Russian.

    However, Russia is a country with a huge population (146 million people).

    So number of Jews is very small as a proportion of the total.

    Also only a small proportion of the people with Jewish ancestry, will be externally noticeable, or wearing funny clothes, etc. Most have no interest of Judaism or the Jewish culture.

    It shows how strange this website is though, when you recall Jews are 0,19% of the world population, and yet maybe 80% of articles here are conspiracy theories about Jews.

    Even in countries with the most Jewish, or Jewish-ancestry, populations – like Russia, France and America – it’s in a range of 1-2% of the population.

    It’s like gay people, though (who may be a slightly larger proportion of the population, but not so much larger), that they are overrepresented in visible professions.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  96. Ibound1 says:
    @Wilkey

    I’ve never heard anyone say a country cannot succeed without Jews. The USSR had lots of Jews – total flop. Japan has none- complete success. Singapore has none – complete success. Poland before the war had millions – a total flop.
    Italy – not too many and by far (IMHO) the best food in the world and the best looking, best dressed women. In other words – a total and complete and roaring success!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  97. Dmitry says:
    @M Krauthammar

    In fact, European countries with highest levels of immigration have the best economies , highest standards of living

    It’s true, but direction of causation is “good economy and high standards of living” —> ” therefore immigrants want to flood you for an easier life”.

  98. Dmitry says:
    @Lot

    like Ukraine because there was more conversion and intermarriage.

    That’s nonsense. If I recall, the Jews of Ukraine had intermarriage (proportion of Jews who marry non-Jews) rate of around 30% as early as the 1920s.

    And trends just will have accelerated as a result of the Soviet Union, for obvious reasons.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    , @Lot
  99. not the United States as was previously believed

    Who believed that? Everybody here knows that the second “most Jewish country” is New York City, and they clearly view themselves as such.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  100. @miss marple

    Are you suggesting that the Neo-Nazi movement is a false flag operation?

    Why not? Much of the Ku Klux Klan is undercover. As in FBI.

  101. @Oleaginous Outrager

    Brooklyn used to be the most Jewish country in the world. That went the way of the Dodgers, at about the same time.

    Kings County (what Brooklyn is to the state) is the second-most Jewish county in the US, with Sullivan, home to the Borscht Belt, the most.

  102. Dmitry says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Also in Israel. Israel attracts a lot of low class trash from across the Former Soviet Union, who go there for the financial benefits. And it probably creates a bad impression, when you see various Russian-speaking drunks that have settled in Israel or when the beggars on the streets in Israel are Russian.

    While the case of London, it’s more the opposite, as the nature of the immigration to London filters more for educated and bourgeois people.

    I never saw a Russian-speaking beggar in London.

    So, English impressions of Russians are being a bit distorted in the opposite direction (with too much upside), as an result of the immigration filtering process.

  103. J.Ross says:
    @Dmitry

    So in other words there must never have been a House of Windsor because there’s so many more Indians.
    Either you’re lying about your accomplishments, or you exert a certain amount of influence on society, even if involuntarily. And the proof that there is no God is any Jew ever opening his mouth to decry gentile “conspiracy theories” when your entire mytho-history is “evil-because-evil goyim plotting to massacre us all for no reason.” Maybe if you haven’t noticed but the entire mainstream media (as well as several specialist publications) is a safe space for you. If you’re complaining about the one corner that presumes to allow freedom of speech it begins to look like what I’ve seen happen to many other sites, especially in the current massacre of censorship: they move in, they behave at first, then they just happen to be hasbarists and just happen to gang up on critics of Israel and just happen to complain about speech freedom, and eventually the owner has to make a choice between respectabah pillahs of da communitah or nazi scum who happened to be original regulars. Every commenter who tries this concerned Nazi-fonding citizen script must be pushed back against or we’ll have nothing.

  104. @Wilkey

    You mentioned Argentina.
    Back in the early 1900s, Argentina was one of the richest countries on earth. Mostly Spanish and Italians, but richer in both total GNP and per capita GNP than either.

    Then it completely fell apart. They kept borrowing money, not for infrastructure, but mostly to buy votes. Oversimplified, but still…

    A cautionary tale, to say the least.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  105. J.Ross says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    There used to be a phrase, “rich as an Argentine.” That probably coincides with a major factor in US class mobility and living standard: lots of land to go around.
    Mexico was doing pretty well until they massively overborrowed in the 70s.
    It is scary that failures often succeed for a while, so you can’t use success alone as a measure.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  106. p s c says:

    See former Secretary of State Madeline Albright and journalist Kati Marton (more famous for marrying wealthy/important men).

    Apparently both raised Christian in Hungary and later to discover Jewish ancestry.

  107. @Lot

    Cantor’s genealogical case is old & mostly, I think, “solved”- we don’t know. Just, he was, probably, not of Jewish ancestry (leaving space to the possibility that he might, partially, had been).

    This is one of those persistent myths, like that of supposed Heydrich’s “genetic heritage” or Leonardo da Vinci being gay or Dostoevsky having committed child rape or …

    • Replies: @Lot
  108. What about Spain? One would think there is a lot of jewish admixture in Spain…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  109. Does anyone know exactly how the math would work for something like this?

    For instance, while it might be the case that if you had a grandparent who was 100% Jewish, then you would probably be at least 25% Jewish – assuming that the genes determining that are passed on in equal proportions to genes that are not determinative of being Jewish.

    But what if you had a 10-generation-ago ancestor who was 1/4 Jewish genetically – and those Jewish genes were simply passed on undiluted through ten generations? Are some genes more likely to be passed on than others? Or is it in fact the case that one gets an EXACT mixture of genes from one’s parents? I’m pretty sure this is NOT the case.

    It seems to me that one could theoretically have Jewish genes passed on from a 100% genetically Jewish person from any time in the genetic past – if those genes are persistent. And we all know how persistent Jews can be!

    Maybe Jewish genes are more “selfish” than others – to paraphrase Dawkins!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  110. Anyway- isn’t this a funeral march to Kevin MacDonald’s speculations on Jewish collective behavior? MacDonald insists on Jewish unassimilability & eternal segregation. If knew history more, he would have dropped the issue or reformulated it in a more plausible or realistic way. But, with him, it’s either-or, no third option.

    Two pillars of MacDonald’s edifice are: evolutionary strategy (completely unscientific, even more- incomprehensible) & eternal segregation/alienation/unassimilability.

    Well, the second pillar has just collapsed before your eyes ….

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @J.Ross
    , @utu
    , @SFG
    , @ben tillman
  111. Jack D says:

    Unlike in the Pale (for the most part), within the Austro-Hungarian Empire and within Hungary in particular (and within Budapest even more particularly), there was a path to conversion open to upwardly mobile Jews. Let’s say you are the son of a successful merchant or manufacturer and your parents have sent you to college or professional school. You were never really particularly religious, not like your grandpa with a big beard – you are a man of the modern world and don’t believe that mumbo jumbo. You are a really sharp guy. You can remain a Jew but your horizons will be limited.

    But go to church and convert and all sorts of doors open up for you – partnerships in law firms and big corporate clients. Professorships. Government offices. Matches with girls from really rich families (ok, maybe they are converts too). Invitation to balls. Membership in clubs. The whole ball of wax. Some of these things you might achieve even while remaining Jewish but others are out of the question. These things are reserved for “Hungarians” and Hungarians are by definition Christian and not Jewish. A Jewish Hungarian is a non-sequitur like a kosher pig. You can be one or the other but not both at the same time. The society is surprisingly accepting of converts – convert and virtually any door is open to you and certainly to your children, who will be baptized at birth. Sure there are a few snobs and anti-Semites who will never let you forget where you came from, but most don’t care. Which do you choose?

  112. ah ok, i guess they are counting people who have any detectable SNPs exclusively associated with jewish populations. or some similar methodology. i’m no expert.

    i was gonna say, i don’t think Hungary is very jewish anymore. that was the case 100 years ago but not now. around 1950 or so, some of the important mathematicians and physicists were jewish guys from Hungary who had left a while ago. today Hungarians don’t do much.

    i’m estimating that the US is well under 2% jewish now, probably 1.5% or something like that for people who are ‘mostly’ jewish (80% to 90% or more). not sure how many of the europeans in the US have part jewish DNA, but maybe 3.5% or something along those lines if you count any detection of related SNPs.

    you’d rarely detect them in other people, excepting the Lenny Kravitzs and Drakes of the world.

    this opens a new question for Israel for instance, how many SNPs does a person need to demonstrate in a laboratory test, in order to be counted in the group? a lot of american indian groups do not accept genetic tests and you need to have the historical documents to prove who you are descended from. but that won’t be widely possible for a lot of people who are part jewish and part european.

  113. Jack D says:
    @blake121666

    Are some genes more likely to be passed on than others? Or is it in fact the case that one gets an EXACT mixture of genes from one’s parents? I’m pretty sure this is NOT the case.

    No, you don’t get an exact mix but neither is it (statistically) possible to get ONLY the “Jewish” genes. Imagine that you have two decks of cards, one with red backs and one with blue. You shuffle the two decks together and deal out 52 cards. Except by coincidence, you are not going to get exactly 26 red and 26 blue, but you are going to get something close to it. One time you deal them out and get 24 red and 28 blue, another time you get 29 blue and 23 red, etc. But the odds that you are going to be dealt 52 red (“Jew”) cards (10 times in a row!) are infinitesimal.

    • Replies: @blake121666
    , @ben tillman
  114. Jack D says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I really think it depends on the society. In Poland the Jews remained isolated as Mac Donald says.

    The other thing is the one way application of the “One Drop” rule for Jews – as Steve says, this is the reason why whites in the US (unlike Latin America) are really really white – most whites are 99%+ white even if their families have been here for 400 years alongside all these blacks and Indians. But blacks are 20% white and Hungarians are X% Jewish. Likewise, my family, after 1,000 years in Poland, comes back 99% Ashkenazi. Technically, Jews are supposed to be accepting of converts but as a practical matter no. Your girl comes home and says that she has been knocked up by that nice Polish boy. Dad says, ” Goodbye – You’re dead to me now.” In such a case, the Jewish parents would literally say the prayer for the dead for their child. There was zero acceptance of mixed marriage within the community, no more than Obama’s mom could have remained as a member of the white community in good standing with a little brown bastard in Alabama 1929 – it was just not possible – in fact it was unthinkable. You could go live as Christians but you couldn’t stay as Jews.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Bill P
    , @Lot
  115. Anne Lid says:
    @anonymous

    Albert Szent-Györgyi. And Richard Zsigmondy had Hungarian parents, though they moved to Austria.

  116. J.Ross says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    MacDonald insists on Jewish unassimilability & eternal segregation.

    What MacDonald did was to quote Jewish texts commanding these conditions. I am not going to offer a proof here that religious commandments are not always followed or that different countries have different societies.
    One of the ugliest scenes in Scholem Aleichem’s stories is Tevye coming across his out-marrying daughter and refusing to acknowledge her existence; this was true for its location but was changed in Fiddler on the Roof, because the musical was written in a society and by a man where outmarriage was far more accepted.

  117. Jack D says:
    @J.Ross

    There are very few countries aside from Anglophone countries, a few in Europe and a few in E. Asia that have made the leap to having 1st world economies with a broad and deep middle class. Argentina was never really one of them, nor was Mexico. They had a fair number of rich (mostly European) people – enough to build a few very impressive neighborhoods in their capital cities. In these neighborhoods, you might think that you are in Paris, or maybe even nicer than Paris because these rich folks really like to show off their wealth (and labor is pretty cheap). But then things went down hill fast. The middle class were poorer than the American middle class (Eichmann was working as a foreman in a Mercedes factory in Buenos Aires but his house had no electricity and he rode the bus to work – at first the Israelis didn’t believe it was really Eichmann because they couldn’t conceive than an Obersturmbannführer was living like that). And the poor always lived at subsistence level.

  118. J.Ross says:
    @anonymous

    You’ve got it backwards. Hungary has one of the few Nobel delegations that isn’t just “Our Best Jews.”

  119. utu says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “isn’t this a funeral march to Kevin MacDonald’s speculations on Jewish collective behavior” – No. Look at Scottish diaspora in Poland in Lithuania. There were 10’s of 1000’s of settlers in 16 and 17 centuries from Scotland. They all assimilated and diluted. There is no Scottish identity left in Poland or Lithuania and there was no Scottish persecution or Holocaust.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  120. Two points:

    1.) I once knew a man who was born in Soviet Kazakhstan. By ancestry, he was one-fourth Romanian Jewish, one-fourth Ukrainian Gentile, and one-half Russian Gentile. His half-Jewish parent qualified the family for emigration to Israel, where he grew up and (maybe) did his military service. This fellow was Russian Orthodox. While on visa in the United States for grad school, he visited L.A. and said, “Man, if I could only live *there.*” Climate-wise, it probably reminded him a lot of Kazakhstan and Israel, with plenty of kinda-Jewish, kinda-Russian compatriots.

    2.) I suspect the Hungarians were more open than a lot of nations (such as the Poles) to intermarrying with Jews, provided they assimilated. This had the effect of making Hungarian Jews more willing to convert to Christianity and assimilate. For example, John von Neumann himself was a convert to Roman Catholicism, for all of his love for Yiddish humor. It seems that America’s most famous Hungarian immigrants, the Gabor family (Zsa Zsa, Eva, etc.), descended from assimilated Hungarian Jews who had converted to the Catholic Faith.

    • Replies: @Crouchback
    , @Anne Lid
  121. @Clifford Brown

    Marianne Williamson strikes me as a sincere and kind person. She is the only candidate discussing our political and social problems as a spiritual crisis. I might not agree with her solutions, but like Yang, she is at least interesting and attempting to address the deeper problems are society is facing.

    I hope she manages to stay in the race and push the spiritual issue further.

    Her program is a bucket of the usual–goodthinking, be-nice–feminine slop; a caricature of why women and politics are a toxic mix/mess.

    Our problems–America’s and the West’s–are not “spiritual” but ideological. They may manifest spiritually with a lot of people living purposeless, unhappy lives. But basically they are result of minoritarianism and the accompanying nation wrecking.

    Destroy the minoritarian ideology and things start getting radically better.

    A program for restoration is pretty simple:

    0) Immigration moratorium.
    And expel as many non-conforming immigrants–especially muslims–as you can. Everything starts getting better after this.

    0) Ideological challenge and defeat minoritarianism.
    An ideology that pro-majority and celebrates the nation’s tradition, culture and race.

    Once these are done you are healing your spiritual crisis.

    1) Defeat feminism (and with it LBGTQism).
    Basically propagate an ideology of male/female difference and complementarity along the lines i outlined in a previous comment:
    — men and women are complementary
    — each sex has statistically its stronger skill set and we are “better together”
    — a good marriage and family is the font of human happiness and anchor of civilization
    — mommy track; find something to do that meshes well with your core job of wife and mother
    — if you are smart, healthy, fit and financially secure, have 3+

    2) Promote family formation.
    Once you stop immigration and defeat feminism, family formation is much cheaper/easier. But you can give it a shove, with massive tax deductions for families (i.e. for kids) during the child raising years.

    3) Defund the left.
    Vigorously chop away at all the subsidies and employment that the left gets from government. Shut as much down as you can. Relentlessly work to cut parasitic leftist employment on the taxpayer teat, or created or authorized by government edict.

    4) Educational choice.
    De-couple housing and schools, increase educational innovation, allow escape from leftist public school indoctrination.

    5) Definancialize.
    Rein in the financial system. Curtail the subsidies from the feds. (I already wrote at length on mortgage finance rationalization.) Penalize speculative activity. Tax transactions. Force everything to be specific and transparent and hence more stable. (You’re investing in mortgages. You’re investing in credit card debt. You are investing in X …)
    Simplify and rationalize the hodgepodge of retirement programs–pensions, 401ks, 403bs, IRAs, Roth (IRA/401k) down to one simple generous easy to understand program. The fewer people who think they need “financial advice” the fewer people employed giving it … the better.

    6) Bring back manufacturing from China.
    Complicated topic. But automation is coming and pushing forward with that, at home should be the focus.

    7) Build infrastructure.
    As roll up leftist government, can spend more doing actually useful governmental activities in infrastructure, which have lagged population growth.

    8) Disable cell phones every weekend …
    Ok … i haven’t figured out how to rein in that beast.

    ~~~

    If the nations of the West move back toward being actual nations–peoples with their own history and traditions connections to the past and future, self-reliant and productive, with men and women who see themselves as complementary and together part of the story and future of their nation … our “spiritual crisis” will abate. We’ll have more marriages, more sex, more children, more love and more fun.

    • Replies: @SFG
  122. @Jack D

    These are not MacDonald’s theses. He’s inflexible & asserts he’s discovered the same type of behavior from, say, Byzantium & Spain to Germany & Poland (evolutionary strategy, subversion of (European) host societies, endogamy, unassimilability, quackery, polygamous tendencies, charismatic cultist leaders, …) across the time & space. There are no exceptions, as there are no exceptions to the laws of motion in classical mechanics. His position is: I am a scientist & these are, as much as this field permits, impersonal societal “laws”. Perhaps not as exact as those in physics or genetics, but close, very close….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  123. @Anne Lid

    Non-threatening, but still annoying. Very annoying.

  124. @utu

    Yeah, but there was not a clearly defined religious culture that separated them from the rest. Jews were a mid-Eastern tribe allowed to stay in Europe, unlike Arab Muslims. Had Arabs (Muslims) been allowed to stay in Iberia- they wouldn’t have assimilated at all.

    MacDonald insisted that Jews remained basically aliens even after religious conversion, which is a partial truth, for some time & place (forced conversions in the 15th-16th C Spain & Portugal), and not in other circumstances (voluntary conversions in 19th C Germany). For MacDonald, assimilated French, German, Italian… disappears. Assimilated, not just acculturated Jew -not.

    • Replies: @utu
  125. @Buzz Mohawk

    I’m 1/4 on my dad’s side and scored a free trip to Israel. Just don’t tell them if you’re baptized.

    Plus Marianne is disgustingly antiwhite. Her self help seminars involve the whites hugging the few blacks in attendance while apologizing for racism, catnip for baizuo

  126. Bill P says:
    @Jack D

    It’s kind of funny how, despite this supposed purity of Ashkenazi Jews, they seem to have picked up a lot of physical characteristics from their host countries. Sure, there are lots of Ashkenazim who look like they came straight out of the Levant, but there are also a lot who do not.

    You’ll rarely find a white southerner with an afro, but you find lots of European Jews with red hair, blue eyes and pale skin. Many of them pass for the natives of their host countries.

    I just don’t buy the idea that Jews remained genetically pure for over a thousand years in central Europe. I think it’s a fiction, and this idea that all these Europeans are part Jewish is actually a side effect of labeling every European lineage found in European Jews as Ashkenazi.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Lot
  127. Hibernian says:
    @Wilkey

    “Hungary, Russia, Argentina, South Africa and Ukraine: all the best, richest countries in the world.”

    Well, none of them are in the same category as Haiti, at least so far. Argentina and south Africa were very prosperous, back in the day.

  128. utu says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You are making Kevin MacDonald’s argument. Thank you. Kevin MacDonald’s argument is based on the fact that ” there was […] a clearly defined religious culture that separated [Jews] from the rest. “

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  129. Hans says:
    @Hans

    Should have been clearer. Tormay’s books cover the (((Bela Kun))) period while Irving’s is 1956.

  130. @Realist

    Thanks for pointing out my typo. That’s very helpful.

    At least I didn’t say my Pa-Paw had high cheekbones.

    • Replies: @Realist
  131. Jack D says:
    @Bill P

    The current thinking is that Jews are admixed but the admixture mostly occurred very early, during Roman times. Lonely Jewish merchant in Rome takes a local girl for his wife. As in Mexico and many other places, the maternal and paternal lineages are very different.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  132. @peterike

    peterike referred to my post as:

    Nonsense.

    Well, it may surprise you that I actually agree that you raise some interesting points.

    peterike said:

    We’re also unhappy because of Hollywood-driven sexual mores, which are destructive.

    Indeed, but I think that is tied in to the end of material progress and the desolation of the working class. Families feel that to afford the latest (largely worthless) goodies and, indeed, just to have a middle-class standard of living, they have to have both spouses working. (I’m not claiming that every family should have one spouse — and it will usually be the wife — staying at home, but it certainly is a good thing in many, probably most, cases.)

    Of course, the view of sexuality that we are presenting to young women is indeed also utterly devastating, completely contrary to evolutionary psychology, not to mention millennia of common sense.

    peterike also wrote:

    Why are we unhappy? Multiculturalism, for one, is socially toxic, and it has now struck virtually every corner of the nation, other than a few super-rich enclaves.

    Do you really think so? If you did not watch the news or participate in forum such as this, how much would multiculturalism really hurt your life?

    I live in a fairly “multicultural” neighborhood in terms of the national origins and ethnicities of the residents, but, in fact, things are fine because all of our neighbors adhere to old-fashioned “bourgeois” values: wherever they were born, they speak English; they keep up their property; their daughters behave in a way that would not shame their grandparents; etc.

    I suppose the synthesis between your and my views is that the underlying problem is “progressivism.” The progressives are the people who ossified and bureaucratized the economy; the progressive imposed sexual mores that are destructive of human happiness; the progressives are responsible for the fake “multiculturalism” that does not really celebrate human choice and diversity but that is really just a sham to attack American bourgeois values.

    I will still insist, however, that the end of progress is an important part of the picture. Americans are working harder and harder and the promised utopia is receding further and further into the distance. The promise of “democratic capitalism” is coming to seem as illusory as the fake promises of Marxist socialism.

    Free markets do not have to work this way, but, thanks to the progressives, we do not really have free markets.

    The old promise of the radiant future was that life would get better materially and work would get more pleasant. What people are experiencing is that the world of work is becoming increasingly corrupt and conflictual, while living standards for working people have hardly risen at all.

    You’re right that this is not the whole picture of what ails our society. But, to ignore the material aspects of life is to have a huge blind spot.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  133. @Anonymous

    Very interesting post. I myself have studied the Jewish population numbers (in connection with Holocaust denial as a matter of fact – but that’s beside the point).

    I think the estimating of Jews in former Soviet countries tends to only refer to religious Jews. And religion was taboo in the Soviet Union.

    There were about 11 million Jews in Europe at the start of WWII. And it is claimed that there were about 5 million there afterwards. The vast majority of these were in Soviet states (Russia in particular).

    If you notice the citations of Steve’s OP, you see that Staetsky estimates that about 130,000 Hungarians have 50% or more Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. But as you’ve quoted, he says that 4.2% of the test takers had 50% or more Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. Using 9 million as Hungary’s popultaion, 4.2% of that would be 378,000. So he is estimating that Jews are 3 times more likely to take the test – and therefore the percentages are off by a factor of 3.

    Doing the same for your Russian example, 1/3 of your 4.46 million would be 1.5 million. And this is probably right for the number of Russians of 50% Jewish ancestry – even after large emigrations.

    BTW, Jews flooded into the USA starting around about the 1880s. And they very quickly became about 3-4% of the whole USA population in the first part of the 20th century. You can verify this with the AJC Yearbook archives:

    http://ajcarchives.org/main.php?GroupingId=40

    For instance, the 1939 Yearboook:

    http://ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Files/1938_1939_7_Statistics.pdf

    has the Jews being 4,228,029 of the 122,775,046 USA population = 3.4%.

    I’m certain they hit 4% one year but didn’t bother to search for that exact year. I think it was in the year before the ’20s immigration laws (and probably influenced those laws).

    Regarding an earlier comment on this thread, 7.5% of Hungary’s approximate 10 million population is 750,000 – which happens to be Hungary’s estimated Jewish population in 1941 (after all of the border changes are taken into account). I suspect a Holocaust denier could probably make something of this. I’m not inclined to, though. I’m just taking the article at face value – that there are only about 130,000 50% genetic Jews in Hungary today.

    • Replies: @J
  134. @Dmitry

    You have a source for that? It sounds way high. Maybe it was 20% in Kiev, but the vast majority of the Jews still lived in small towns and villages in the 1920s. Intermarriage was unthinkable then to most Jews, plus as you know it takes two to tango and non-Jewish Ukrainians weren’t into Jews, to say the least. But I’ll wait to see your source.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Dmitry
  135. @PhysicistDave

    I live in a fairly “multicultural” neighborhood in terms of the national origins and ethnicities of the residents, but, in fact, things are fine because all of our neighbors adhere to old-fashioned “bourgeois” values: wherever they were born, they speak English

    What are the main national origins of these neighbors of yours?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  136. guest says:
    @Anonymous

    I dunno if that’s true. I hear more Poland and Russia.

    Hungary was, however, the jurisdiction of Eichmann, supposedly the evillest man ever or something like that. Boy, he dropped the ball, didn’t he?

    • Replies: @awry
  137. @Jack D

    I’m not certain such a calculus applies to the problem. Genes can be dominant. I think the only way to know is to perform empirical tests. And these DNA tests have not been around long enough to have done that.

    The sort of test I have in mind of course would be something like:

    1. Determine the “ethnicities” of animals that then have offspring together – in the way “ethnicity” is being determined here for humans.

    2. See what the mix is in the offspring.

    3. Do this for many generations.

    I read a fairly long time ago that white Brits and Americans are much more blue-eyed than they were just a few generations ago. And yet I’ve also heard that blue eyes are recessive genes. I don’t think people are using the right models for these sorts of things.

    But I have no problem with what you say from an entirely theoretical standpoint. I’m simply more of an empiricist in such matters.

    • Replies: @snorlax
  138. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Frog Man

    There are still communities there 500 years later that are homogenous Jew.

  139. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    He actually maintains that endogmay and selective breeding with upper class gentiles are two sides of the same coin. There is a section in COC where it is explained. As for the amount of half Jews in Russian and Hungary my feeling is the second world war had a lot to do with this. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence (I know) of parents baptising thier children and not telling them of thier origins which is simply another type of crypsis.

  140. Lot says:
    @peterike

    Mass media is pro-war regardless of its ownership. Did the yellow journalism that promoted the Spanish American war have an ethnic animus against Spaniards? Or did they just see it as the most practical war to advocate for?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @ben tillman
  141. Lot says:
    @Dmitry

    I could see new AJ marriages in the USSR being 30% to non Jews in the 1920s. But I doubt it was anything close to that before 1917.

    The official communist line was generally: Jews – great ethnicity, awful religion, right?

  142. J.Ross says:
    @Lot

    So you’re contrasting Pulitzer with modern mass media moguls?

  143. @LondonBob

    I don’t think most Hungarian jews thought Horthy was anti-semitic personally.His wife was rumored to be Jewish(no idea if she was). I remember hearing as a kid from elderly Hungarian Yiddish speakers “Horthy hut g’gessen chulent Shabbes” =Horthy ate chulent (traditional Jewish Sabbath stew) on the Sabbath.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  144. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    There must have been admixture in the Babylonian exile (when there was massive cultural admixture) and then after the destruction of the Temple (when Jewishness itself was effectively suspended for about a century).

  145. “By the early 20th century, the Jewish community constituted 5% of Hungary’s total population (comparable to MyHeritage’s findings) and Jews comprised 23% of the population of the capital, Budapest.”

    Karl Lueger, the founder of the Austrian Christian Social Party, referred to Budapest as “Judapest.” For whatever that’s worth.

  146. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    “Likewise, my family, after 1,000 years in Poland, comes back 99% Ashkenazi.”

    If you are talking about 23andme, that isn’t a statement about your ancestors’ Polish admixture over 1000 years, but only about 60 years.

    To qualify to be part of a reference population, you have to have all four grandparents of the same ethnicity. So you just resemble people with four self-identified AJ grandparents. It makes no claim either way about intermarriage further back, and other studies show AJs are 10-15% old northern European, so are you.

    To look at it another way, a gene found in many Poles and AJs as a result of one very fertile Pole entering the AJ pool in 1750 is evidence of Polish admixture, but 23andme’s ancestry test would ignore the gene completely since it isn’t a reliable marker of either Polish or AJ ancestry.

  147. J.Ross says:
    @International Jew

    There was a massive move into the cities in the early Bolshevik period (there were painfully true comedies about families “living” in an apartment complex’s communal bathroom and having to go frequently into the hallway), which also would have been a time of new (if transient) social acceltance and class mobility for Jews. For the entire Tsarist period and then in late Stalinism you would be right.

  148. Lot says:
    @Bill P

    “there are lots of Ashkenazim who look like they came straight out of the Levant, but there are also a lot who do not.”

    AJs have been in some of the coldest parts of Europe for about 1200 years. That is plenty of time to evolve a higher rate of lighter features. The selection advantage of blond hair in northern Europe was quite large. So between 800 and 1900, both Christian and Jewish Poles became blonder for the same reasons. To the extent Jews were wealthier (more sexual selection) and spent less time in direct sun (less skin cancer vulnerability) they probably got paler and blonder even faster than the already high background rate.

    There is in fact some “local” genes in each AJ population, but you should not assume that’s the source of the pale features of many of them as opposed to concurrent evolution in the same environment.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  149. @Anonymous

    7.5% of Russians having 25% or more Jewish ancestry is shockingly high to me, esp., when compared to the figures for other countries (3.5% in USA quite in line with what you would expect for a nation that’s 2% ‘Jewish’). I seem to recall reading Russia was less than 1% Jewish (in fact, it’s currently claimed that Russia has a Jewish population of 176,000 or 0.12%). Also, consider the figures given here for Russia’s Jewish demographics before and after WWII.

    I suspect that the “Cantonist” program might account for a decent chunk of Jewish ancestry.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonist#Jews

    This also served to spread Jewish ancestry outside the pale of settlement, as Cantonists were peremitted to settle anywhere in Russia after their service years.

  150. @Svevlad

    Who do you see “seething” at this?

    • Replies: @Svevlad
  151. @Jack D

    Yes, Tay-Sachs testing is near universal in Orthodox circles.

  152. SFG says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I think he’s right about the evolutionary strategy thing, at least in a rough functional sense (I don’t know if the science works out). Jews (present company excepted, of course) do seem to support multiculturalism and things like that.

    It’s the unassimilability thing that doesn’t quite work out the way people seem to believe. There are Jews who are willing to assimilate, but they basically boil off and leave the tribe. You can be pro-American and putting America first, but then your kids wind up non-Jewish. It’s not that Barry Goldwater doesn’t exist, it’s that he winds up becoming Episcopalian.

  153. SFG says:
    @AnotherDad

    AnotherDad for President!

  154. Lot says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “Just, he was, probably, not of Jewish ancestry”

    1. His brother’s letter to his mother makes most sense coming from a Christian with substantial/complete Jewish ancestry

    2. Famous Cantors other than him seem to be at least 90% Jewish. How many non-Jews on this list? Even the Canadian football player named Cantor is Jewish.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_(surname)

    3. His wife was Jewish

    4. His great uncle was a “Jewish violinist”

    5. In a letter he described part of his ancestry as “Austrohungarian.” This seems to something you’d expect a secular or Christian-converted Jew to do, mention the specific political entity, not the many nationalities within it. Same thing if I heard someone say “my mother was Yugoslavian” as opposed to Serb, etc.

    6. In general his background was pretty “cosmopolitan” and has family names that are fairly Jewish.

    I think the best overall explanation is just he was a third to fourth generation ethnic-AJ Christian.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  155. @M Krauthammar

    European countries with highest levels of immigration have the best economies

    Northwest Europe was the most prosperous part of the continent long before modern mass immigration.

    Why is that the case

    King Edward I took action in 1290 to enable the development of a native middle class in England, while his contemporary monarchs to the east took actions of a contrary nature.

  156. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve long been curious about the provenance of Budapest’s famously brainy(even by their standards) Jews, as well as those in Vienna. Did they come from German-speaking lands or were some from the Slavic/Magyar-speaking parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire? I can see both cities being attractive places for well-educated(and thus more likely to be secular) Jews from poorer parts of the empire. They would have been attractive to smart Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and Ukrainians too, but a smart gentile leaving those lands would have found himself a minority if he left his historic homeland. With Jews, they would be minorities either way, so maybe all else being equal, smart Jews were more likely to move to Vienna or Budapest.

  157. Bill P says:
    @Lot

    Looks like they’re around 20% Northern European (admixture likely occurring between 300-600 years ago), which is pretty significant:

    https://indo-european.eu/2018/03/the-time-and-place-of-european-admixture-in-ashkenazi-jewish-history/

    I suspect there were more proselytes than people think.

    • Replies: @Lot
  158. Interestingly, some Khazar tribes belonged to the Magyar horde from which today’s Hungarians claim descent. The Khazars (or at least some of their ruling class) are famous for converting to Judaism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabar

    Have genetic tests determined the extent of Magyar (Asian Steppe “hear the lamentation of the women”) genetic impact in Hungary? Or is the population of Pannonia more or less the same as it was under the Romans, with occasional exotic elites (Huns, Goths, Lombards, Avars, Magyars, Iazyges, Cumans, etc.) coming and going?

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  159. has uncovered that there are surprising numbers of people descended from Jewish ancestors in Hungary — far higher than previously estimated by demographers.

    You gotta love what they can do with a convenience sample.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  160. snorlax says:
    @blake121666

    I read a fairly long time ago that white Brits and Americans are much more blue-eyed than they were just a few generations ago.

    Other way around. White Americans were around 75% blue-eyed c. 1900.

  161. Lot says:
    @Bill P

    That’s an excellent article. Steve and Greg Cochran also agree.

    North/East Euro is less than 20%, more like 10-15%. There are different ways to estimate giving different but similar results.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  162. @miss marple

    Are you suggesting that the Neo-Nazi movement is a false flag operation?

    What Neo-Nazi movement?

  163. @Dave Pinsen

    The percentage in Russia is surprising, given the large number of Jews and quasi-Jews who migrated to Israel from Russia.

    That would seem to make it un-surprising.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  164. @Lot

    “One reason is because conventional American-born Jews are lately heavily into Russophobia”

    I know you can find some Internet anecdotes to support this, but they seem to fall into a few unrepresentative piles:

    1. Ancient complaints about how grama fled a Russian pogrom by SJWs who feel the need to engage in competitive victimhood, cause that’s the best they can do.

    2. Putin isn’t LPGA-friendly enough

    3. Superhawks ginning up anything they can to justify more money for the defense contractors that fund their think tanks.

    4. Borat being from a fake Uzbekistan-type central asian ex-USSR country is subliminal Russian or maybe Polackophobia.

    But as evidence “conventional American-born Jews are lately heavily into Russophobia” this falls badly short.

    Sure, because Victoria Nudelman and Anne Applebaum and Bill Kristol don’t exist. Don’t bullshit us.

  165. @Lot

    Mass media is pro-war regardless of its ownership.

    In our lifetimes, there’s been no way to test that. The ownership has been monolithic.

  166. Kronos says:
    @Peter Lund

    Well now I feel like a idiot. Never heard of the one who died in 2006.

  167. @For what it's worth

    Hungarians were more open to assimilation because Hungarian identity is more national than racial. Blue-eyed, blond-haired Hungarians recognized that they were a salad of racial genes, more the descendants of Slavs and Germans and Pannonians than the Asiatic Magyars whose tongue they spoke. This made them both more and less tolerant of other peoples. In the Dual Monarchy they tried to force Magyarization on the Slovaks and Croats whereas the Austrians, with a strong sense of racial identity, did not force an equivalent conformity on Czechs and Italians because they considered themselves a racially distinct people.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  168. Anonymous[272] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ibound1

    I’ve never heard anyone say a country cannot succeed without Jews.

    Is this what Jews really believe?

    Or is it what they really fear?

    • Replies: @Ibound1
  169. All localities with a significant population of Ashkenazies will flourish due to the population’s extrodinary IQ. We should seek to spread this intelligence and energy across the planet. I suspect there are areas in Africa without Ashkanezies. Forced migration, in a gentle manner of course, might be the solution.

  170. snorlax says:
    @Amerimutt Golems

    I’ll bite. Zuse’s contributions to computer science are a very small footnote when compared to von Neumann’s,* much less those of Turing, who is arguably the single most important figure in the field.

    *And of course von Neumann made enormous contributions to numerous other mathematical and scientific fields.

    the inventor of the world’s first programmable digital computer

    There was no single “inventor” of such a thing, but if there were it would be Charles Babbage—or perhaps Joseph Marie Jacquard, since the word “computer” is rather arbitrary, especially as applied to something like the Zuse Z3, which is closer to an IBM tabulating machine than an IBM 702.

    had PR machinery

    Zuse clearly has fantastic PR machinery, able to convince laypeople to argue, apparently seriously, that his accomplishments outweigh Alan Turing’s. To give you an idea of how silly this sounds, if they were Axis heads of state instead of early computer scientists, Turing would be Hitler, von Neumann would be Father Tiso, and Zuse would be Phetsarath.

    Zionist media

    The highest-profile “Zionist media” portrayal of von Neumann I can think of is Stanley Kubrick’s rather nasty parody of him as the title character in Dr. Strangelove.

    BTW, if you’re looking for a contemporaneous gentile citizen of Nazi Germany whose importance to computer science actually does rival von Neumann’s if not Turing’s, there’s Kurt Gödel.

    • Replies: @Gc
  171. Jack D says:
    @kaganovitch

    For someone who was not an anti-Semite, Horthy had a lot of anti-Semitic friends in his “white” circles. He was also the first to pass anti-Semitic laws in modern times (starting in 1920 by limiting the # of Jewish students and leading up to 1941 – outlawing sex between Jews and Gentiles). He didn’t send the Jews of Hungary to Auschwitz but he pressed them into labor battalions on the Eastern Front. As Jews they weren’t fit to fight for Hungary but the could dig trenches, act as human mine sweepers, etc.

    A lot of the E. European Jews set a low bar for “not an anti-Semite”. If you are a beaten dog and your new master beats you a little less, he seems like a humanitarian to you. When some of his “white” buddies decided to pogrom the Jews, he told them to hold off on going after the “little” Jews and stick to the big ones – compared to his buddy Prónay who wanted to kill ALL the Jews, he was not an anti-Semite. Compared to Himmler, he was not an anti-Semite. By any reasonable standard, let alone Current Year standards, he was.

    Prónay was, BTW, a despicable character. He disappeared at the end of the war and no one knew what became of him until the Soviet archives opened up. Actually he had been swept up into the gulag and sentenced to 20 years hard labor. No one lasted 20 years in the gulag, especially if they were 69 to begin with and Prónay was dead within a couple of years.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @kaganovitch
    , @Anon
  172. …a period when massive defecations occurred from the more integrated elements…

    pretty sure that’s a typo, but razib is south asian.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  173. Anne Lid says:
    @For what it's worth

    Neumann converted on his deathbed. I doubt it had anything to do with faith, more like hedging his bets.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  174. @International Jew

    International Jew asked me:

    What are the main national origins of these neighbors of yours?

    Out of a dozen or so nearest houses: an Iranian Shi’ite family, a Jewish family where the parents are immigrants from South Africa, an African-American lady, a daughter of Chinese immigrants, and, curiously, two separate guys who were Army Air Corps during WW II, one shot down over the Pacific and the other shot down behind Axis lines in Europe.

    Of course, it works because everyone is middle-class and well-educated: the Chinese lady and Jewish guy are both physicians, the African-American lady is a nurse, the Iranian husband taught at the local university, etc.

    Grab random people from the respective countries of origin and no doubt it would not work as well!

    Common bourgeois values, fluency in English, reasonably high intelligence (the Army Air Corps did not take morons!), and it works pretty well.

    Which is why I maintain that culture, values, and intelligence can trump ethnicity and race.

    Put together a bunch of low-IQ people who trash bourgeois values and disdain standard English, and no doubt it would work badly.

  175. @Anne Lid

    Not quite. He converted when he married. And- his dying was painful & dramatic. In many death- bed conversions to Catholicism (William Quantrill, Buffalo Bill, John Wayne etc.) there is no such a drama.

    https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1988/PSCF12-88Seeger.html

    Some people claim that von Neumann was an agnostic. I must confess that we never discussed religion. It may be that his very silence was an indication of his sincerity. On the other hand, he showed little interest in the philosophical aspects of quantum mechanics. It is noteworthy that he was uninhibited by ethical considerations in weaponry. I was surprised, therefore, when he died a Roman Catholic. To be sure, his first wife had been Catholic. I presume that he was a nominal one in those early days of his marriage. In his last illness, he asked for a clergyman, but he surprised them by insisting upon a Roman Catholic priest. A Benedictine was succeeded by a Jesuit for instruction. The attending Air Force chaplain told me that Johnny could quote the Penitential Psalms in Latin. I attended the Catholic burial service at the Walter Reed Army Hospital, where he died. He was buried in Princeton, New Jersey.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Illness_and_death

    In 1955, von Neumann was diagnosed with what was either bone or pancreatic cancer.[206] He was not able to accept the proximity of his own demise, and the shadow of impending death instilled great fear in him.[207] He invited a Roman Catholic priest, Father Anselm Strittmatter, O.S.B., to visit him for consultation.[18] Von Neumann reportedly said, “So long as there is the possibility of eternal damnation for nonbelievers it is more logical to be a believer at the end”, essentially saying that Pascal had a point, referring to Pascal’s Wager. He had earlier confided to his mother, “There probably has to be a God. Many things are easier to explain if there is than if there isn’t.”[208][209][210] Father Strittmatter administered the last rites to him.[18] Some of von Neumann’s friends (such as Abraham Pais and Oskar Morgenstern) said they had always believed him to be “completely agnostic”.[209][211] Of this deathbed conversion, Morgenstern told Heims, “He was of course completely agnostic all his life, and then he suddenly turned Catholic—it doesn’t agree with anything whatsoever in his attitude, outlook and thinking when he was healthy.”[212] Father Strittmatter recalled that even after his conversion, von Neumann did not receive much peace or comfort from it, as he still remained terrified of death.[212]

    Von Neumann was on his deathbed when he entertained his brother by reciting by heart and word-for-word the first few lines of each page of Goethe’s Faust.[7] He died at age 53 on February 8, 1957, at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., under military security lest he reveal military secrets while heavily medicated. He was buried at Princeton Cemetery in Princeton, Mercer County, New Jersey.[213]

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  176. @utu

    Well, the point is that MacDonald was only partially right. He insisted that converted Jews retained their ethnic solidarity even after conversion, and even if it was voluntary. It could be the case with forced conversion, and for some time (Spain, Portugal). Clearly, this was not the case with German Jews who disappeared into wider German people & Himmler’s genealogical snooping “experts” were needed to find & locate them, using methods available at that time (folk genealogy, phrenology, gossip & popular stereotypes).

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  177. @Old Jew

    You sound like Old Yahweh: I am who I am. I only hope you’re of milder disposition in dealing with your chosen subjects of interest ….

  178. Anne Lid says:

    It amuses me that some people joke (I hope it’s a joke) that Hungary has a wall because we have a lot of Jews. Could not our history, old and recent, have something to do with it instead? Orban pays a lot of tribute under various pretenses to Jews for their support. Other Jews have been very vocal, to the point of caricaturing themselves, about open borders and the joys of multiculturalism.

    Another thing is gypsies. We have not managed to properly incorporate them to this very day. They are a burden in our neck, impossible to get rid of. We just don’t need more unassimilables.

  179. Anne Lid says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Conversion at marriage was probably for convenience. He had unreal intellectual abilities, so reciting psalms in Latin does not mean he was deeply involved with them. He lived his life in riches and adoration. He was personally involved in choosing the cities to be bombed. No wonder at the end of his life he was disturbed. It is really just a personal opinion, but if his deathbed conversion were sincere, he would have been at peace.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  180. @Anne Lid

    Sorry, but have to disagree. Of course I don’t know what von Neumann thought & felt in his heart of hearts. But, he was anything but a shallow cynic. And, I don’t question his sincerity: always, always our subconscious if more powerful than our conscious self.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  181. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    You gotta love what they can do with a convenience sample.

    What is a “convenience sample”?

  182. Anne Lid says:
    @For what it's worth

    We have changed. The noble families had the most ancient nomadic conquerors’ blood, but they pretty much died in battles, and we have very little genetic inheritance from them. Does not matter. We are still their descendants.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/srep33446
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.20677
    My mother is from the Great Planes. Some of her sisters were mistaken for gypsies because of their dark hair and eyes. Perhaps some Cuman inheritance.

  183. Anonymous[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    He was also the first to pass anti-Semitic laws in modern times (starting in 1920 by limiting the # of Jewish students and leading up to 1941 – outlawing sex between Jews and Gentiles)

    Jews saw intermarriage as a Holocaust. Horthy was protecting the Jews from Holocaust.

  184. Realist says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    At least I didn’t say my Pa-Paw had high cheekbones.

    Yes, Warren is extremely vacuous.

  185. Gc says:
    @snorlax

    BTW, if you’re looking for a contemporaneous gentile citizen of Nazi Germany whose importance to computer science does rival von Neumann’s if not Turing’s, there’s Kurt Gödel.

    If you are looking for gentile Americans there are Church and Kleene.

  186. J says: • Website
    @blake121666

    I doubt that there are 130000 Jews in Hungary today. Where are they? There are no Jewish circumcisions in Hungary. There is only one Jewish kindergarten with a dozen children. There are no Kosher butcheries. Out of central Budapest, Hungarian never saw a Jew in lives except on films. Jews are so few in Eastern Europe that for most, they are phantoms. I do not believe in the existence of so many half and quarter Jews in Hungary since well known Ashkenazi mutations are totally absent in the population. No Tay Sach in Hungary at all. Making lists of suspected Jews is favorite passtime of Hungarian right, but never get it right.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @kaganovitch
    , @Jack D
  187. Gc says:

    Anyway, those contributions of Von Neumann seems to be more on the electrical engineering side of computers. I don`t know can that be called computer science. What is more interesting is the Hungarian style christian ideology for Europe. That competes with Alt-Right and can be seen to be more reasonable.

  188. @Jack D

    You’re missing two things:

    1. meiotic drive — presumably of little if any effect in this case (but we don’t know, really)
    2. selection — perhaps the genes from the Jewish ancestor were helpful and selected for

  189. @Bardon Kaldian

    Well, the point is that MacDonald was only partially right. He insisted that converted Jews retained their ethnic solidarity even after conversion, and even if it was voluntary.

    No, he didn’t “insist” that that was a general rule. He just observed that it was true in some instances.

    And he was right.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  190. @Bardon Kaldian

    MacDonald insists on Jewish unassimilability & eternal segregation. If knew history more, he would have dropped the issue or reformulated it in a more plausible or realistic way.

    The Jewish people still exist. How did that escape your notice?

  191. Jack D says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    He was just hedging his bets according to game theory. If there was no God, then saying a few psalms wouldn’t change the outcome. If there was, then it might improve it. But dying of a painful cancer at 53 must have upset his equilibrium to say the least. What kind of joke was God playing, mounting the brilliant diamond of his brain on a basket of rotting flesh and bones? Not even a genius could make any sense of that.

    When he was in good health he never showed the slightest interest in religion. The man racked with fear and pain and morphine on his deathbed was not the Johnny that he friends knew although he could still display flashes of his former genius and photographic memory.

  192. Anon[202] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    But if the Jewish conception was right he had just condemned himself to eternal damnation. A hell of a way to hedge a bet.

  193. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @M Krauthammar

    This guy is actually arguing that massive North African, Pakistani/Afghan, Sub Sahara immigration migrations are actually GOOD for Western European countries like Germany, Sweden, England. Realities like Rotherham England, Sweden descending in to highest rape country outside of Africa, Malmo immigrant areas becoming no go zones, this idiot is openly arguing that this is a good thing.

    It’s like trying to have some reasonable conversation with the Neo Conservatives at National Review, the Weekly Standard that took over Conservative Inc and made the Great Replacement a key tenant of mainstream Conservative thought.

    As always, corner these types and demand that they advocate the same for the Jewish ethno state of Israel that they demand for once healthy, safe, homogeneous White countries/societies in Europe, North America.

  194. @Jack D

    This sounds too shallow & implausible to me. True, von Neumann was not a religious temperament. Nobody claimed that. But, from the presented material, his conversion (or religious behavior) during his demise seems to me both sincere & authentic, springing from genuine inner desire & not just a calculated, mostly rationalized bet. The fact that he, in all likelihood, did not find inner peace is not the sign (or proof) of his insincerity. It is just a confirmation of W.H.Auden’s opinion, stated in verse: Though he believe it, no man is strong.

  195. Svevlad says:
    @kaganovitch

    The tone is like “they all have jewish ancestors yet they aren’t jewish reeee”

  196. Dmitry says:
    @International Jew

    My memory and dates are incorrect.

    1920s level of marriage of Jews to the non-Jews is much lower in Ukraine than Russia (partly because a large proportion of Jews are still living in isolated villages in this period in Ukraine and their culture world was still very primitive, as is the level of most of the population). While in Russia, it increases to the majority of new marriages already in the 1920s.

    A lot of Jews already by then have avoided being listed as Jews in the census, so the real rate would be higher than these estimates however.

    When I was applying for Israeli citizenship (I got registered in the end but not the passport) – the difficulty was that the mother of my grandfather, who was a halachic Jew through his mother, is described as Russian in all documents. The most recent indication we could find of the Jews in my family research, is the school certificate of the great-grandparent, and a great-great parent’s marriage before Soviet times.

    non-Jewish Ukrainians weren’t into Jews, to say the least.

    Antisemitism is still today famously high in Ukraine. But it’s also quite high in America, and yet there is significant intermarriage of Jews to non-Jews in America today.

    And although the rates are far lower, in absolute terms, there are many Americans who marry African Americans, whose position in America is analogous to Jews in the USSR in some ways (although not others).

    Actual real behavior of people in relation to who they marry, does not necessarily match very favourability rating, or anti rating, of the particular nationality in the general culture.

    • Replies: @Sleep
  197. @ben tillman

    He just observed that it was true in some instances.

    It is & it’s trivial. But, he tried to extrapolate it & in that effort showed tendentiousness. Tired of chewing old stuff again & again, just a repost of an old comment.

    MacDonald is an historical illiterate, something I’ve said zillion times. Generally, he is a mixture of interesting info & a massive obscurantist.

    To analyze most of his specific claims is as useless & boring as are most of his grand assertions.

    * Jews “follow group evolutionary strategy”. He didn’t prove that such a strategy exists at all, apart from a trivial observation that any human collective wants to preserve its identity & to thrive. No “strategy” in such a behavior.

    * also, his description of “Jewish movements” is non-verifiable & actually difficult to describe. From what I know of Marxism, psychoanalysis or Leninism- these were not “Jewish” movements, neither in intellectual genesis nor with regard to their proponents.
    What about other intellectual currents, prominent in 20th & 21st C? Do these movements or cultural currents qualify as “Jewish”: anarchism, free-love leftism, Expressionism, Cubism, Dadaism, German phenomenology in philosophy, cultural critique (Derrida & Foucault following Heidegger), New Left with its post-1968 ideology, multiculturalism as ideology, Jungian archetypal psychology, New Age ideologies, radical Feminism, “New Atheism”, evolutionary psychology, sociobiology, various schools of economics (Austrian, Chicago,..), structuralism in humanities, ..?

    * what about areas where ethnic Jews are over-represented in 20th & 21st fields: theoretical physics, all branches of mathematics, chess masters, computer science, violin virtuosi, philanthropists in arts & curators of museums, film directors & producers, ..? Are these areas somehow driven by Jewish interests, whether conscious or not? How can we ascertain this?

    [MORE]

    Although I admire MacDonald’s work in demolition of maudlin myth the core American Jewish community has over time built about it (eternal victims & universal humanitarians), I don’t see his work as dispassionate analysis that would be close to even such a non-exact “science” as evolutionary psychology claims to be. With its broad sweep of generalizations, MacDonald’s work on historical traits of Judaism (as cultural-historical identity) is not unlike other historiosophies, similar to St. Augustine, Gioacchino da Fiore, Hegel, Marx or Spengler.

    There are insights in these works- but they are basically an imaginative construction, not more.

    Jews are ethnic religious tribalists who had, many of them, lived in Europe for most than 2000 years. Somewhere during the Nero’s rule, they constituted ca 10% of Roman Empire & adjacent eastern lands, i.e. 5-6 million people. Have they had an opportunity for natural growth, there would have been ca. 250-400 million of them now. But, most of them assimilated, vanished into greater Pagan & then Christian communities. So much for stubborn insistence of religious-ethnic pride.

    There is no “group evolutionary strategy”, only if it stands for something trivial: any ethnic-national group wants to exist ad infinitum & prosper.
    This applies to every single human community.
    As for Jews being particularly ethno-centric, this may be the truth in comparison with some other groups, but they didn’t differ from Zoroastrian Iranians or Hindu Brahmins; there is no way to empirically verify whether their ethnocentrism is rooted in ancient religious texts older than 1500 years (Babylonian Talmud, 250-600 AD) or something else. No causal connection can be made & all this is bogus.

    With regard to MacDonald’s thesis that Jews are culturally-generically predisposed to domination in host societies, this is an easily refutable canard: they lived harmoniously, peacefully & productively during Parthian, Zoroastrian, Abbasid empires, Cordoba caliphate, Ottoman Empire…as well as in the 17th-18th C Netherlands or 18th C Prussia. They tried (and to a larger degree succeeded) to assimilate into British & German Empires, from the beginning to the end.

    MacDonald’s theses are very simple & cannot pass the test of any rational & empirical investigation.

    Jews are, according to him, essentially, due to a compound of genes, history, religious ideology,… eternal enemy of “white race”.
    Not real. They lived among Europeans for almost 2 millennia & had virtually always been at the history’s receiving end. After their Enlightenment at the end of the 18th C, they avidly secularized themselves & were literally hungry for the riches of high European culture (arts, sciences, technology, ..), trying to assimilate as fast as they could. No “evolutionary group strategy” here, not anything that would preserve them as an alien dominant cultural-biological ethnicity..

    Jews are far from a monolith existing in MacDonald’s fantasy
    . It is true they, those of them who still possess Jewish identity, try to help their co-religionists if they are in trouble (which is a perfectly normal behavior). But, their primary loyalty is to their host societies, which can be seen from German Jewish behavior during WW1, when their military deaths were higher than their percentage in the population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenz%C3%A4hlung French Jews fought for France, British for Britain etc.

    According to MacDonald, Jews are basically destructive to a host society, like a group of pathogen bacteria swarming & sucking life out their host-victim. They’re, actually, not unlike a cancer. Another example of dehumanization & antisemitic nonsense.
    What about good they’ve done to their host societies, in culture, wealth, inventions, development of commerce, journalism, agriculture, arts,..

    Persistent MacDonald’s myth is about their extraordinarily high levels of endogamous practice. In reality, Catholic and Protestants didn’t mix much until the 20th C, and Jews (not converts) have been in mixed marriages with German Christians at the rate of 30-40%, during 1933 (Hitler’s rise to power); now, more than 60% of Jews outmarry and more than 80-90% of them do so in Russia. Where is this MacDonald’s grand “evolutionary strategy”?

    Then, he is tendentious. MacDonald presents Spanish conversos/Marranos from 15th and 16th C as ethnically-racially homogeneous group. A part of them must have stayed that way- it is perfectly natural that forcibly converted people (who had already possessed their written culture & rituals) will adopt chameleon-like behavior. So did Moriscos, forcibly converted Muslim Arabs. So, it’s not about specific Jewish traits; it is about religious violence & natural resistance of people who had found themselves on the receiving end of pressure for religious conformity. MacDonald implies that many, perhaps most Marranos succeeded in surviving Inquisition in next 2-3 centuries. True, some Marranos have succeeded to retain their identity & emigrate later to the Netherlands or Ottoman empire, but most of them vanished into broader Iberian societies.

    Conspicuously, MacDonald has glossed over the fact that most Jewish Germans in the 19th C had been assimilated with high percentage of intermarriage.
    Marranos in 16th C did-at least a part of them-tried to retain their separate identity. Not so in early 19th C Germany, where many Jews had voluntarily been baptized & completely assimilated into German society-no Jewish separatism & tribal behavior. No “Jewish Christian” secret societies, clannish behavior, endogamous marriages…
    Mendelssohn family simply disappeared among other Germans.

    How so if they’re eternally alien ethnic group? Where I can see that famous survival strategy? This “strategy”, it seems, leads only to obliteration of a separate national identity.

    Or, after all, Einstein (whose descendants are not Jews) was right: If it were not for antisemitism, Jews would have dispersed like leaves in the wind.

  198. @Jack D

    A lot of the E. European Jews set a low bar for “not an anti-Semite”. If you are a beaten dog and your new master beats you a little less, he seems like a humanitarian to you. When some of his “white” buddies decided to pogrom the Jews, he told them to hold off on going after the “little” Jews and stick to the big ones – compared to his buddy Prónay who wanted to kill ALL the Jews, he was not an anti-Semite. Compared to Himmler, he was not an anti-Semite. By any reasonable standard, let alone Current Year standards, he was.

    I am not arguing for an objective assessment of Horthy’s anti or philo semiticism. I am only arguing for the way he was perceived by contemporary (religious) Jews. There is some truth to your explanation , but in general religious Jews have usually viewed authoritarian leaning rightish governments with favor , and leftish governments with suspicion. Religious Jews were big supporters (both politically and financially) of Marshal Pilsudski’s government in Poland for example. One could argue that deep Trump support in the Orthodox Jewish community is also along these lines, although Trump’s authoritarianism is more or less a figment of Democrat’s imagination.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  199. Bill P says:
    @Lot

    Whatever the admixture is, it’s hard to miss in certain Ashkenazi communities:

    https://jewinthecity.com/2019/05/how-do-hasidic-jews-curl-sidelocks-and-do-they-all-sleep-separately/

    Compare the guy on the left to this photo (kind of funny if you don’t regard it as blasphemous):

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/693202567618670737/

    My hunch is that there was a rash of conversions of Protestants to Judaism during the counter-reformation. Stuck “behind enemy lines,” I can imagine more than a few Protestants in Catholic regions choosing Judaism over “papism”. It fits the timeline, and Christian sectarianism can definitely be strong enough to provide the motivation.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Dmitry
    , @kaganovitch
  200. Jack D says:
    @Bill P

    Those guys in the 1st photo are not Hasidic – they are Israeli actors in costume for a TV series (“Shtisel”) and are about as Hasidic as Leonardo DiCaprio. They are Jewish but not remotely Hasidic. Like actors everywhere, they are blonder than the general (in this case Israeli) population.

    Shtisel is actually not a bad TV show (I think you can get it on Netflix – in Hebrew with subtitles. Occasionally some of the older characters speak in Yiddish) . Secular Israeli’s don’t know much about the ultra-Orthodox and so this series was an effort to (fictionally) venture inside their community. It turns out that the Orthodox have the same concerns as everyone else – love, death, money, professional advancement, sibling rivalry, etc. Sometimes it veers into melodrama or soap opera (gotta keep the plot going every week) but on the whole it’s not bad.

    https://forward.com/schmooze/425896/meet-the-real-shtisel-cast-sans-wigs-and-beards/

    • Replies: @Bill P
  201. @Crouchback

    Hungarians were more open to assimilation because Hungarian identity is more national than racial. Blue-eyed, blond-haired Hungarians recognized that they were a salad of racial genes, more the descendants of Slavs and Germans and Pannonians than the Asiatic Magyars whose tongue they spoke.

    There’s a rather serious problem with this theory as before the invention of mass media it was very rare for Europeans to know what East Asians look like and those Hungarians of the 19th century who romanticized the steppe roots tended to imagine that Mongolians looked like Hungarians. So Hungarians didn’t think that they weren’t related to the steppe invaders.

    When Finnish and Hungarian scholars started actually traveling to Asia and bringing back photographs rather late in the 19th century, it was a huge disappointment to many to discover that the Mongols, Central Asian Turkics and other steppe Asians actually look rather different and that we clearly aren’t close relatives of the great and revered Genghis Khan who kicked a lot of Slavic butt.

    European racial conceptions of Asians were confused and inaccurate because East Asia is far, Turkey is close and it’s what Europeans traditionally thought of as the beginning of “Asia” and it took a long time to realize that peoples from Turkey to India to Japan look rather different. Some race theorists did have good descriptions of East Asians in the early 19th century but then there were a lot of people that got everything completely wrong by trying to integrate all of Asia into one race. It took until widespread photography before the issue was cleared.

    Also it’s not really known how Asiatic looking the original Magyars were. Most Finno-Ugric peoples are Eurasians and the close linguistic relatives of Hungarians are not full Asians so it’s rather likely that the original Magyars were not full Asians either. The DNA studies of old graves so far seem to suggest that they were a mixed bunch but then, that is to be expected as according to the legend a whole bunch of tribes of various origins had joined together.

    • Replies: @Yngvar
  202. Dmitry says:
    @Bill P

    guy on the left to this photo (kind of funny if you don’t regard it as blasphemous)

    That man in the photo is not a real Haredi or Hasidic Jew. It is just an actor from Israeli television (Michael Aloni) who plays the role of the Haredi. The television show this photo is from (Shtisel) is a very good television series – I watched the whole television series last year and learned a lot of Hebrew from it. It’s actually now available on netflix.

    In real life, he looks like a bourgeois hipster version of Jesus. At the moment I watched him in “Metim LeRega” (a trashy Israeli series), and who has an affair with the doctor.

  203. Bill P says:
    @Jack D

    OK, but you have to admit that the guy looks about as western European as you can get on the wrong side of the English Channel, and it isn’t just the light eyes and fair complexion, but the angular features as well.

    If I had to guess I’d peg him as a Walloon. And yet he’s Jewish.

    I know a guy who’s half-Lebanese and half-Swedish who looks similar, but that kind of proves my point. I’m not denying the authenticity of the Ashkenazi ethnicity, but the racial aspect is overblown IMO.

    As a predominantly Anglo-Celtic American (along with some Norwegian ancestry), a lot of Jews just look like continentals to me, and they should be thankful for that, since Atlantic Islanders can be kind of peculiar-looking.

  204. Anne Lid says:
    @Jack D

    I am a moralising jerk. So I am going to ask you: do you think while he was ravaged by cancer (which I do not wish on anyone, except when I am mad, because I’m a jerk), do you think he spared a thought for those who got leukemia because of his bombs?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Johann Ricke
  205. Jack D says:

    But you are right. Non-Orthodox American Jews are often impossible to pick out of a crowd of other white continental Europeans. There are some Jews who look like a Sturmer cartoon with the big hook nose and the 5 o’clock shadow or give off a strong “Jewish” vibe , but many of them don’t at all.

  206. @Bill P

    My hunch is that there was a rash of conversions of Protestants to Judaism during the counter-reformation. Stuck “behind enemy lines,” I can imagine more than a few Protestants in Catholic regions choosing Judaism over “papism”. It fits the timeline, and Christian sectarianism can definitely be strong enough to provide the motivation.

    There is zero evidence that any such spate of conversions took place in the counter-reformation. In general, amateur physical anthropology is not a very reliable metric. It’s about as reliable as amateur etymology,i.e. not very.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  207. Anon[202] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    What’s the bar for “not a Polonophobe” or “not a Magyarophobe”?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  208. Jack D says:
    @kaganovitch

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend and certainly in the 1st half of the 20th century, Reds were the enemies of religion. Especially in the Jewish community the Reds competed for hearts and minds with religion. Conversions to Christianity were rare but Jews “converted” to Communism by the millions.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  209. Anne Lid says:
    @J

    I knew quite few in our nearby provincial town. There was even a kosher butcher. But most was not really religious, they did not wear kipas or anything. Also, heavily intermarried.
    When my grandmother was a young woman, there was a Jewish community in our village that was not there anymore when I grew up in the seventies. There could have been a few, but no one ever told me. I saw some old tombstones, and grandma mentioned when we passed by a house ‘the shakter lived here’.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  210. Thirdeye says:
    @M Krauthammar

    The breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire was imposed in such a way as to assure that no state could rise as an economic power. Not only were the new states individually weak, they were forbidden by the League of Nations from forming mutual economic relationships that could foster development. Eastern Europe was impoverished by design. Fast forward through the era of communist stagnation to the rise of the EU and the imbalance has been preserved; eastern Europe chafes under the exploitive diktats of the western powers.

  211. Jack D says:
    @Anne Lid

    I’m sure that he did but a mind as powerful as von Neumann’s also has infinite powers of rationalization. I’ll bet that he concluded (and he was probably not wrong) that one had nothing to do with the other. We may want to believe in karma but God (if there is a God at all) keeps score in a way that is unknowable to man. His ways are not our ways. Innocent babies get cancer but the evil Mugabe dead at the ripe old age of 95 – what kind of scorekeeping is that?

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
  212. Anne Lid says:
    @Jack D

    No, no, I did not mean that he deserved cancer. It seemed that he was equanimous about the lives destroyed while he was healthy. That is abnormal, but it is impossible for me to put myself into the shoes of such an extraordinary man.
    I rationalise to myself that evil people live long and happy lives, because God gives them a chance to repent all those years, plus, if they are going to damnation, one should not envy them for enjoying their time here. I don’t think that God gives cancer to people. But since he had it, it could have been a time to think about how he caused some of this to happen to others.

  213. J.Ross says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    How can it be trivial when whites can be imprisoned, unpersonned, or federally investigated for just talking about it, but they can do it openly?

  214. J.Ross says:
    @Hari Vaginathan, Jr.

    DESIGNATED. That’s the kind of thing that would get you censored if he was around. And he would point out that, while racially South Asian, he grew up in the Pacific Northwest of the US, and [censored photographs of sidewalls in San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland] — my god, you’re right …

  215. Yngvar says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Most Finno-Ugric peoples are Eurasians and the close linguistic relatives of Hungarians are not full Asians so it’s rather likely that the original Magyars were not full Asians either.

    It was just an language adoption caused by a small conquering warrior tribe. All Hungarians/Magyars are Slavs like their neighbors, no Finno-Ugric genes at all.

    • Replies: @awry
  216. @Anne Lid

    So I am going to ask you: do you think while he was ravaged by cancer (which I do not wish on anyone, except when I am mad, because I’m a jerk), do you think he spared a thought for those who got leukemia because of his bombs?

    Maybe he’d get a straight shot to heaven for helping to smite Satan’s earthly helpers and expediting their descent into hell.

    • Replies: @Anon
  217. @Jack D

    Conversions to Christianity were rare but Jews “converted” to Communism by the millions.

    My impression is that Christians, Jews and Muslims converted en masse to Communism – it was a matter of personal survival in a world where pagan unbelievers in Lenin’s true religion risked a one way ticket to the gulag from which millions never returned.

  218. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    I don’t know these words. Is that a thing?

    • Replies: @Anon
  219. Anon[202] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Is what a thing?

  220. MBlanc46 says:
    @Clifford Brown

    Many of our deeper problems are the result of there being too many people like Marianne Williamson here.

  221. Rapparee says:

    The “Jewish Enlightenment”, spanning the 100 years between 1780 and 1880, was also a period when massive defections occurred from the more integrated elements of the Central European Jewry.

    Fred Astaire was apparently one more talented product of mitteleuropäisch conversion and intermarriage.

  222. Bill P says:
    @kaganovitch

    There is zero evidence that any spate of conversions took place in the counter-reformation…

    That’s kind of a laughable assertion given that so many of the counter-reformation prosecutions involved judaizing.

    A famous case from Russia:

    https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:e4a48eeb-6eee-4585-8a29-6ccbc7f7cc48

    As for the anthropology, I already provided a link to a study that finds Ashkenazi Jews to be about half European with a substantial fraction of that ancestry from northern Europe.

    If you’d like, I could also provide evidence of the substantial Iranic element in Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry, thus further calling into question a mainly Levantine origin.

    In fact, despite my own fully northern European and largely “Yamnaya” ancestry, I think it’s safe to say that the average Jews is, technically speaking, more Aryan than I am.

  223. @Bardon Kaldian

    It is & it’s trivial. But, he tried to extrapolate it & in that effort showed tendentiousness. Tired of chewing old stuff again & again, just a repost of an old comment.

    MacDonald is an historical illiterate, something I’ve said zillion times.

    And you’re a self-deluding idiot, which I’ve now said once but will undoubtedly have to repeat endlessly.

  224. @Bardon Kaldian

    Jews “follow group evolutionary strategy”. He didn’t prove that such a strategy exists at all . . . .

    Yes, he did, against the backdrop of the rest of evolutionary biology.

    also, his description of “Jewish movements” is non-verifiable & actually difficult to describe. From what I know of Marxism, psychoanalysis or Leninism- these were not “Jewish” movements, neither in intellectual genesis nor with regard to their proponents.

    YOU HAVEN”T READ HIS BOOKS.

    You have no idea what he’s talking about, and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

  225. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @ben tillman

    Only if you confuse subtraction for addition.

  226. Gc says:
    @M Krauthammar

    Even today, most Young Hungarians want to leave this shit hole of a country and move to Western Europe which according to Alt Right jokers is a third world region.

    It does not matter if some will leave, because Hungarians have today many babies as do Russians and Israelis. They can also say they don`t need immigration, because they are not dying as nations. I agree with you on Alt-Right, though. I saw this Alt-Righter on TV who said Hitler should be seen as an ordinary, great European leader. You cannot found anything on that stuff. I watched a document about Magda Goebbels. In her diary she said that even Goebbels and some other nazis could not really live with the crimes they did. They knew they where villains and that`s it. Hitler was an exception.People wan`t to feel good about themselves. Anyway, my villain law is that the main villain is always the most evil. When Stalin died even the serial killer Berija started to talk about moderate and humanistic terms before he was killed.

  227. awry says:
    @guest

    The globalist party line is that Orban is a mere minion of Putin (accusing the Polish govt with that would be harder), of course the world arch-villain is Putler, controlling a whole troupe of Russian puppets worldwide, of course starting with Trump, and including virtually every nationalist European politician (including Salvini, Le Pen et al) and many “non-conforming” leftist ones too – probably Corbyn is among them, or at least suspicious.

  228. awry says:

    DNA test-takers are not a representative sample of the Hungarian population though. I suspect and most of them are urban and more affluent and more educated than the average. It is not a surprise that a significant part of the Hungarian intellectual and economic elite has at least part Jewish blood. It was alwas so since the late 19th century.
    It is also obvious that the Holocaust did not wipe out Hungarian Jews, while in the case of Poland it appears that Jews all but disappeared there (especially regarding their pre-war numbers), those who survived emigrated to Israel mostly. Lot of Jews emigrated to Israel from Hungary too after the war, but contrary to Poland there was a lot of mixing and a lot of part Jews, some of them not even aware of their Jewish ancestry (after WWII many became “crypto jews”, fearing another anti-jewish period in the future, keeping their mouth shut about their roots, even not telling their children in many cases).

  229. awry says:
    @Yngvar

    Language adaption does not work that way, there must have been a significant number of speakers. Otherwise the Hungarians would speak a slavic language too, like Bulgarians whose state was founded by a Turkish warrior tribal invasion. Just like England doesn’t speak Norman, Hungary would not speak the language of a small invading army after many centuries. It seems that the Carpathian Basin was sparsely populated when the Magyars came (or accourding to some theory “Magyars” (speaking some Old Hungarian) were already living there since the Pannonian Avars (who were speaking that language too according to the theory), or even the since the Huns (as some theorize that Hungarians are indeed related to Huns, not just in legends).
    There are no such thing as a Finno-Ugric gene, just like there is no Indo-European gene. Hungarian is about as far from any other Finno-Ugric language as Hindi from German, or even more.

  230. Jack D says:
    @J

    No Tay Sach in Hungary at all.

    Because Tay Sachs is a recessive gene, both parents have to have it and even then there is only a 1 in 4 chance of the offspring having it. In the case of 1/4 Jews, 3 out of 4 offspring would not have even the recessive gene. If a Jew marries a Gentile there is a near zero chance of Tay Sachs offspring. If two quarter Jews marry each other, there would be 1/16th the chance of Tay Sachs vs. two Ashkenazim. The frequency of the disease for Ashkenazim is 1 in 3500 births so for 1/4 Jewish couples 1 in 56,000 and there are probably not 56,000 quarter Jewish births in Hungary or anywhere close to that each year.

  231. Jack D says:
    @Anne Lid

    This goes along with what J said – there WERE Jews in Hungary, there just aren’t any (many) now.

    When I visited my mother’s shtetl in Ukraine, the local peasants kept pointing out to us which house belonged to the rabbi. It was right next to the mound of dirt when the schul (synagogue) had been. When we came to my family’s house (now the town library) the next door neighbor told us with great certainty that the former owner had moved to Jerusalem before the war so that no ill had befallen him or his family – in fact he had prospered. Since the former owner was my grandfather, I knew that this is not what had happened AT ALL (a LOT of ill had befallen the family), but I wasn’t going to argue with him. I think this story was a way of rationalizing the fact that they were living in stolen property. The neighbor (an ex-Soviet town official) insisted on selling me (for a couple of dollars) a book of local history that he had written. It focused exclusively on Ukrainian post war history and did not mention that Jews (and Poles) had once been a majority of the shtetl’s inhabitants. 1945 was year zero. I don’t think a single Jew has slept a night there since then.

  232. Sleep says:
    @Dmitry

    Antisemitism is still today famously high in Ukraine.

    But they have both a Jewish president and a Jewish prime minister.

  233. Anon[202] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Definitely the home of “Satan’s earthly helpers”:

    Some of “Satan’s earthly helpers” in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpmFHM4G4I0

  234. Bill says:
    @R.G. Camara

    More like 8/10. Look at all the earnest responses.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS