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From the New York Times Opinion page:

Fighting Rent-to-Own Racism This Christmas
For low-income shoppers, the holiday season can be particularly precarious.

By Aaron Ross Coleman
Mr. Coleman is a writer who covers race and economics.

Dec. 22, 2018

… My junior year, I read Manning Marable’s “How Capitalism Underdeveloped Black America.” In it, the author outlined the various debt schemes retailers use to target black neighborhoods. “White businessmen now recognize that the urban poor and lower-income consumers can be made to pay much higher prices than affluent white suburbanites for commodities, so long as adequate lines of credit are made available to them.”

Although he wrote the book in 1983, it explained the ideology of the predatory world that surrounded me more than 30 years later. This was the used-car dealer who tried to get me to finance a 10-year-old Honda Civic for $18,000. This was the subprime lending that wiped out half of black Americans’ wealth in the Great Recession. These were the majority-black neighborhoods full of Rent-A-Centers and payday lenders.

The author goes on to give blacks some good advice on how not to be outsmarted by The Man into paying a lot more than they have to for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.

I’m torn over this anti-white tactic. Being white, I dislike anti-white resentment. On the other hand, I can see the point behind the Black Muslim-style use of anti-white hate to persuade blacks to be more bourgeois: Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!

On the other hand, Jews never allow blacks a platform in the NYT to denounce Jews rather than whites for having been disproportionately involved in the past in businesses in black slums that outsmarted black consumers. It may or may not be good for the blacks, but it’s definitely not good for the Jews, so it’s off limits.

But nobody ever thinks to ask: Is it good for the whites?

Back in 2011, I wrote about Chandler Phillips “Confessions of a Car Salesman” article in Edmunds.

Awhile ago, I went into a certain dealership on Van Nuys Blvd. that sells a prominent brand of Japanese cars to mostly Latino customers.

That place struck me as an abode of evil, from the ridiculously lavish atrium lobby with huge trees indoors, to the high pressure sales tactics, which are designed to trigger Mexican males’ insecurities about their machismo. Aren’t they man enough to buy this absurdly overloaded car at a monthly payment that, if you do the numbers (but nobody does), turns out to include a 21% interest rate? What kind of maricon are you who can’t show the salesman you can afford what he’s offering? I brought my son along and, rather than walk out, we sat through an hour of unbelievably hostile sales tactics as a lesson to him.

And that explains a lot about the motivations behind the businesses in the immigration lobby: more uneducated, innumerate, insecure Mexicans are more fresh meat for their salesmen. They can’t rip off educated white people who subscribe to Consumer Reporters and use the Zag system reserved for CR subscribers, so they want to bring in millions of new people they can outsmart and cheat.

 
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  1. The couch and the stereo can go back when they stop paying for it. When they default on the house suddenly the taxpayer is on the hook.

    • Replies: @Prodigal son
    @Anonymous

    And when they stopped paying their mortgages they were able to live rent free for 2 years or more before the banks evicted them.

  2. If anti-white racism were to teach black people how to be responsible with their money, it would have happened a long time ago. And I’m not sure you can call Jews racist for the systematic targeting of poor blacks, because they systematically target everyone and always have. What word should be used?

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Trevor H.


    they systematically target everyone and always have. What word should be used?
     
    "Skynetting"?

    Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers

    , @Autochthon
    @Trevor H.

    "Jewish" or "Hebrew" suffice with no need for an additional adjective. It used to be anyone with half a brain knew these people were parasitic, shifty, etc.; if, nowadays, a Woke moron has wilfully discarded his forefathers' wisdom and doesn't know better, more fool him.

    If you absolutely insist on another adjective, "usurious" works well because it denotes the money-grubbing at others' expense, and derives from Latin uti: "to use" – which is what they do to everyone else.

  3. So is Aaron Ross a black Coleman, an Irish Coleman, or a Jewish Coleman?

    I know I could look it up, but can’t be bothered to, so it’s rhetorical.

    • Replies: @Rufus
    @Reg Cæsar

    Bruh. Check your intersectionality scorecard ?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  4. Maybe they were “targeted” and maybe they were getting the most realistic deal possible given that they never had any money and were not reliable repayers.
    Semi-related: black guy makes noise in hotel lobby, refuses to prove he is a guest or explain why he can’t take his call in his room, is carted away by cops as a result of his entitled belligerence. This, in racio-fascist Portland. Homeless people, blacks, and, where they occur in numbers, poor mestizos, will essentially camp in “public” areas (like hotel lobbies, municipal library bathrooms, hospital waiting rooms, etc), on the reasoning that the area is “public.” The hotel (worrying about this guy enough to ask if he was a guest) has probably had to deal with non-guests walking in and trying to act inconspicuous. Amtrak stations often have prominent signs warning that you have to have a ticket to sit inside; ghetto fast food places have signs warning guests they are allowed to stay for thirty minutes. Another case of the parallel powerpoints: if you’ve encountered this, it makes perfect sense. If you haven’t, it sounds as crazy as black people trying to make cars stop by deliberately jaywalking in front of them.
    https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2018/12/portland-hotel-calls-cops-on-black-guest-in-lobby.html

    • Replies: @Anon
    @J.Ross


    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!
     
    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    ... for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.
     
    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn't live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial "black hole" members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer's financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. "Sorry mom, these guys won't let me get at my money, and I need the job."

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @Mr McKenna, @Barnard, @Diversity Heretic, @anon, @EdwardM

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @J.Ross


    Amtrak stations often have prominent signs warning that you have to have a ticket to sit inside;
     
    I took Amtrak from NYC to DC last Sunday. The only waiting area with seats was reserved for customers. You had to show your ticket to get in.

    Allowing bums to defile public spaces is another reason we can't have nice things anymore, like seating in a station.
  5. What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?

    • Replies: @dvorak
    @Rob McX


    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?
     
    One with a 7 year loan at 10% and a monthly payment of $299. Legal at every dealership or, if not, at buy-here-pay-here lots.
    http://www.bhphinfo.com/
    (To the author's point, most retail stores sell debt as their primary product).

    Replies: @South Texas Guy, @Jim Don Bob

    , @Blackety Black
    @Rob McX


    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?
     
    The kind an underemployed black man with shit credit can’t afford, and can’t make much of a down payment, so signs a 72 month contract with a usurious level of interest tacked on, bringing the grand total of the piece of shit civic to 18K that he will end up paying if he doesn’t default on the loan during that time, doesn’t need a major repair, and one of his shitty cousins doesn’t crash it.

    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans. Cap it, and let the market figure out what to do. Interest above 15% for anything should be outlawed. Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so, while blacks would find it a little more difficult to ruin their financial lives! Everybody wins!

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Jack D

    , @El Dato
    @Rob McX

    I think this is actually an allusion to Obama's economically disastrous "cash-for-clunkers" program.


    The program began in July of 2009. To qualify for the credit, a traded-in used car had to be less than 25 years old, have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of less than 18 miles per gallon and be in drivable condition. In addition, the new car being purchased had to have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of more than 22 miles per gallon. The new law required the traded-in vehicle to be scrapped, the engine rendered unusable and the vehicle's body crushed. The program ended in November, 2009 after the $3 billion allocated for it had been depleted.
     
    Used-car prices suddenly went up.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Mr McKenna, @bomag, @Barnard

    , @Mr McKenna
    @Rob McX

    Another pertinent question: how can you get 22" spinners onto a Honda Civic, and where can I borrow the money to facilitate this worthy goal?

    https://www.wheelplususa.com/images/wheel_image/medium/1316911963/Dub_Spin_Swyrl.jpg

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    , @Father O'Hara
    @Rob McX

    One bought by vin diesel?
    Remember the Taurus SHO? I'd love to find a great condition lo miles SHO. It's a clean machine.

  6. In The Autobiography of Malcolm X, the author recounts this joke as supposedly being told by Barry Goldwater:

    A white man, a Negro, and a Jew all die and go to heaven. St. Peter tells each of them he can grant them two wishes to insure them a happy eternity.

    The white man asks for a nice home in the suburbs and a well-balanced investment portfolio.

    The black guy asks for a million dollars cash and a brand new Cadillac.

    The Jew asks for “some imitation jewelry and that colored boy’s address.”

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @40 Acres and a Kardashian

    The way I heard it the Jew asks for 10 lbs of cocaine and a harem of young white girls.
    The black guy says, "Yo hole up chief. Can I change my answer?"

  7. Bless your hearts:

    >MASSACRE AT FREDDY’S IN HARLEM: FIRE FUELED BY ANTI-SEMITISM KILLS 8
    “Burn the Jew Store Down”<

    https://www.jewishpost.com/archives/news/massacre-at-freddys-in-harlem-fire-fueled-by-anti-semitism-kills-8.html

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @newrouter


    Ironically, although the picketers had characterized the conflict as a racial, almost all the issues involved were economic -- and indirectly caused by federal intervention to improve Harlem! Last year when Harlem was included as part of a new Federal Empowerment Zone, more than $300 million in Federal, state and city funds was slated to flow into Harlem.
     
    "Winston Smith walked through a Federal Empowerment Zone on his way to meet Julia in a seedy hotel."

    Sounds about right.
  8. … retail-redlining studies of areas like Harlem and Chicago’s West Side reveal that high-quality bookstores [!], pharmacies, restaurants and other businesses still often steer clear of minority communities

    Such bullshit. You can go anywhere in NYC for three bucks on the subway. In fifteen minutes this joker could be at Tiffany & Co. If blacks aren’t leaving Harlem to shop, whose fault is that?

    Contrast with, say, a white devil living in some rural place where the nearest decent store is forty miles away and there isn’t even a bus.

  9. @Rob McX
    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it's 10 years old?

    Replies: @dvorak, @Blackety Black, @El Dato, @Mr McKenna, @Father O'Hara

    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?

    One with a 7 year loan at 10% and a monthly payment of $299. Legal at every dealership or, if not, at buy-here-pay-here lots.
    http://www.bhphinfo.com/
    (To the author’s point, most retail stores sell debt as their primary product).

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
    @dvorak

    A buddy of mine was an exec at Conn's, a dept. store in Tex., and in-store credit was how they made their money. Lot's of money to be made off of poor people. Especially those with a questionable credit history.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @dvorak


    (To the author’s point, most retail stores sell debt as their primary product).
     
    Right. That and $4 warranties on a $35 product.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  10. Spike Lee got slapped down hard by the chosen for his portrayal of Jewish nightclub owners exploiting Black musical talent in “Mo’ Better Blues.”

    From an interview with Lee in New York Magazine:

    “B’nai Brith and the Anti- Defamation League, they were on my ass,” he says. “You don’t know what it is for someone to get on your ass until B’nai Brith and Anti- Defamation League … You know that shit, when they’re on you, you know it.”

    Eventually Lee placated his persecutors by writing an op-ed piece for the Times, but the whole thing still makes him mad when he thinks about it. And the truth is, he’s not sorry about portraying Mo and Josh Flatbush as Jewish bloodsuckers, feeding off the talents of black musicians. “Here’s the thing, though: It’s more than being a stereotype,” says Lee. “In the history of American music, there have not been Jewish people exploiting black musicians? In the history of music? How is that being stereotypical? For me, that’s like saying, like the NBA is predominantly black. Now, if that makes me anti- Semitic …” For a minute, he actually engages and sort of laughs. “I’m not writing any more op-ed pieces,” he says. “I did it once. I’m not doing it again. Seriously. I’m not doing it again.”

    http://nymag.com/movies/profiles/19144/index5.html

    Now, if he had properly portrayed the nightclub owners as “White” there would have been no problem at all. That’s how the NYT headline would read.

    • Replies: @Don't Look at Me
    @Moses

    "Whoa Spike! No need to be so specific all the time."

  11. “Nobody ever asks, Is it good for the whites?”

    Are you effin’ kidding? That question is asked every minute of every day. And as long as the answer is: “No, it is NOT good for the goyim. In fact, it is very, very BAD for the goyim” then the plan receives immediate approval and it’s full steam ahead!

    I’m from this weird little country called America. What country are you from?

  12. I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
    @Daniel Williams

    "Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?"

    Or Mexicans for that matter. Steve's been through this here on the blog and many of us live it. Simply put, Whites, and Asians, do their homework on big purchases, and know the value of shopping around.

    The last time I bought a new vehicle, I paid all of about $340 in interest on a three year loan. I'm not rich, but I pay my bills on time, so I have good credit. I can't count how many times I've drilled this into my white and darker hued friends that it is not a good idea to have the electric company cut off your lights, or whatnot. But that's a lesson you either get or you don't.

    Replies: @Rufus

    , @istevefan
    @Daniel Williams


    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

     

    Whites are the target of a special kind of predatory sales pitch that is directed at whites, and only whites. While blacks might have a weakness for conspicuous consumption, whites have white guilt. And just as blacks are exploited over their weakness, whites are being exploited over theirs.

    Whites are more gullible than blacks, and the proof is right in front of our eyes. While it is true blacks might end up paying more in interest and fees for consumer goods, whites are literally handing away their countries and wealth to nonwhites. Hell even the last post on this blog is about a new sales pitch that is attempting to convince whites that they don't even have a right to be American citizens anymore. And the scary thing is that it might work. It has as good a chance of working as selling a 10 year old Civic to a brother for $18k does.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @TTSSYF

    , @Digital Samizdat
    @Daniel Williams

    I don't know if it's still true, but I noticed years ago that Conn's (mentioned by 'South Texas Guy' above) only seems to advertise on Spanish TV stations.

    , @The Plutonium Kid
    @Daniel Williams

    Many poor whites are victimized this way, too. Some deserve it because they just can't look past their next pay check or welfare check, while others are just poor working stiffs who got caught on the debt treadmill and can't find a way to get off. A large part of the reason is that the victims--white, black or whatever--are poorly educated and can't do the basic math to see what a disaster those interest rates are.

  13. Delay of gratification is simply not a black thing. Now, those who provide the schemes to nix the delay are on the shallow end of the moral pool, but they didn’t exactly trick the impulsive out of their money, which is probably my money anyway.

  14. @Rob McX
    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it's 10 years old?

    Replies: @dvorak, @Blackety Black, @El Dato, @Mr McKenna, @Father O'Hara

    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?

    The kind an underemployed black man with shit credit can’t afford, and can’t make much of a down payment, so signs a 72 month contract with a usurious level of interest tacked on, bringing the grand total of the piece of shit civic to 18K that he will end up paying if he doesn’t default on the loan during that time, doesn’t need a major repair, and one of his shitty cousins doesn’t crash it.

    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans. Cap it, and let the market figure out what to do. Interest above 15% for anything should be outlawed. Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so, while blacks would find it a little more difficult to ruin their financial lives! Everybody wins!

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Blackety Black


    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans.
     
    One of the major reasons the big credit card companies set up shop in Delaware and South Dakota in the 70s is that neither state has usury laws, so they can charge 20%+ on unpaid balances.
    , @Jack D
    @Blackety Black


    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans.
     
    The only effect of this would be to make it impossible for the highest risk borrowers to get any credit at all.

    Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so,
     
    Times have changed since 16th century Venice. Christians can now engage in usury also. Today's Shylocks are rarely Jewish. It would be nice if you could draft laws that only affected evil Jews but the reality is that you end up hitting your own people with "friendly fire".

    Replies: @rufus, @Blackety Black

  15. On the other hand, Jews never allow blacks a platform in the NYT to denounce Jews rather than whites for having been disproportionately involved in the past in businesses in black slums that outsmarted black consumers.

    And you know this how? You have any numbers?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @International Jew

    Hasn't Steve been reading everything in the NYT every day approximately forever? You would think if it had been in there he would have seen it. Some times you gotta believe the witness when he tells you he didn't see something.

    Your question is like asking a man who lives in Los Angeles to give you numbers when he tells you it never snows there.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @International Jew

  16. I was pushing this question “Is it good for the whites?” back a few months ago. In May 2018. And feb 2018. In 2017 apparently. But it looks like Citizen of a Silly Country got there first in 2015 on iSteve.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/david-brooks-explains-it-all-2/#comment-959550

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/if-philip-roth-was-good-or-bad-for-the-jews-was-tom-wolfe-good-for-the-southerners/#comment-2351748

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-establishment-is-getting-a-tad-xenophobic/#comment-2221226

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/my-review-in-takis-magazine-of-geneticist-david-reichs-who-we-are-and-how-we-got-here/#comment-2264744

    2017

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/supreme-court-cant-find-exactly-where-zeroth-amendment-is-in-constitution/#comment-1916580

    It seems as though posing this question could be first found on the internet in 2011 from what I could see. Not a long time considering Jews have been posing their version since the days of Abraham it would seem. Nevertheless these first tentative forays into ethnocentrism are encouraging. With multiple people independently asking the question it would seem an idea whose time has come.

  17. @dvorak
    @Rob McX


    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?
     
    One with a 7 year loan at 10% and a monthly payment of $299. Legal at every dealership or, if not, at buy-here-pay-here lots.
    http://www.bhphinfo.com/
    (To the author's point, most retail stores sell debt as their primary product).

    Replies: @South Texas Guy, @Jim Don Bob

    A buddy of mine was an exec at Conn’s, a dept. store in Tex., and in-store credit was how they made their money. Lot’s of money to be made off of poor people. Especially those with a questionable credit history.

  18. @Daniel Williams
    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

    Replies: @South Texas Guy, @istevefan, @Digital Samizdat, @The Plutonium Kid

    “Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?”

    Or Mexicans for that matter. Steve’s been through this here on the blog and many of us live it. Simply put, Whites, and Asians, do their homework on big purchases, and know the value of shopping around.

    The last time I bought a new vehicle, I paid all of about $340 in interest on a three year loan. I’m not rich, but I pay my bills on time, so I have good credit. I can’t count how many times I’ve drilled this into my white and darker hued friends that it is not a good idea to have the electric company cut off your lights, or whatnot. But that’s a lesson you either get or you don’t.

    • Replies: @Rufus
    @South Texas Guy

    Have I got a Civic for you ! This bad boy drives women wild.

  19. @International Jew

    On the other hand, Jews never allow blacks a platform in the NYT to denounce Jews rather than whites for having been disproportionately involved in the past in businesses in black slums that outsmarted black consumers.
     
    And you know this how? You have any numbers?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Hasn’t Steve been reading everything in the NYT every day approximately forever? You would think if it had been in there he would have seen it. Some times you gotta believe the witness when he tells you he didn’t see something.

    Your question is like asking a man who lives in Los Angeles to give you numbers when he tells you it never snows there.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Right, and because there is sometimes snow visible in the distant mountains in the winter months, just as there have been goyishe slumlords, so until and unless you see this slur documented in Our Paper of Record, shut up cracker!

    , @International Jew
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Sorry, I didn't mean the Times part. I meant the part about "Jews...disproportionately involved in the past in businesses in black slums that outsmarted black consumers".

    Replies: @Jack D

  20. But nobody ever thinks to ask: Is it good for the whites?

    Just as nobody ever thinks to ask:

    Is it good for the cockroaches?
    Is it good for the rats?
    Is it good for the evil people who owe a permanent and increasing debt to all communities of color?

    • Replies: @fish
    @Viral Architect



    Just as nobody ever thinks to ask:

    Is it good for the cockroaches?
    Is it good for the rats?
    Is it good for the evil people who owe a permanent and increasing debt to all communities of color?
     
    Ohs Tinys......

    Dat bein U......pretendin to b som body else?

    Lendnerp “teh deetektif” Pitx
    , @Anonym
    @Viral Architect

    Lol yes. It is up to ask to ask, in our own publications. But will we be permitted to have them outside of cyberspace? Or will they (((Shut it down!))) That is a good question. It is a kind of asymmetrical war being waged on us. Which way would they have us respond? What would our own version of )))Shut it down!((( look like if we were to play it? At least we are allowed to play on unz.com and I am grateful for that.

    Nice play on words with your handle btw.

    https://youtu.be/lkx7SQ4Wuh0

    Sorcerers of madness, selling me their time...

    Replies: @Known Fact

    , @Rufus
    @Viral Architect

    Coc*

    , @nebulafox
    @Viral Architect

    Ohs Turcluckens....

  21. istevefan says:
    @Daniel Williams
    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

    Replies: @South Texas Guy, @istevefan, @Digital Samizdat, @The Plutonium Kid

    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

    Whites are the target of a special kind of predatory sales pitch that is directed at whites, and only whites. While blacks might have a weakness for conspicuous consumption, whites have white guilt. And just as blacks are exploited over their weakness, whites are being exploited over theirs.

    Whites are more gullible than blacks, and the proof is right in front of our eyes. While it is true blacks might end up paying more in interest and fees for consumer goods, whites are literally handing away their countries and wealth to nonwhites. Hell even the last post on this blog is about a new sales pitch that is attempting to convince whites that they don’t even have a right to be American citizens anymore. And the scary thing is that it might work. It has as good a chance of working as selling a 10 year old Civic to a brother for $18k does.

    • Agree: Anonym, Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @istevefan

    A sobering, trenchant assessment.

    , @TTSSYF
    @istevefan

    While I agree with nearly everything you write, including this post, I believe that what you call "gullible" is more accurately described as "high-trust". It's what enables whites to build functional societies. Yes, we sign contracts, but they're only as good as the intent behind them. This characteristic of high-trust, gentlemen's agreements, word-of-honor, respect for institutions, etc., is exploited by those who don't share it, including the millions of immigrants we've received from Third-World countries over the past several decades. I don't know that it's that non-whites are less gullible...I think it's more that they're just cynical, lacking in impulse-control / ability to defer gratification, and/or don't come from high-trust societies.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  22. @Rob McX
    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it's 10 years old?

    Replies: @dvorak, @Blackety Black, @El Dato, @Mr McKenna, @Father O'Hara

    I think this is actually an allusion to Obama’s economically disastrous “cash-for-clunkers” program.

    The program began in July of 2009. To qualify for the credit, a traded-in used car had to be less than 25 years old, have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of less than 18 miles per gallon and be in drivable condition. In addition, the new car being purchased had to have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of more than 22 miles per gallon. The new law required the traded-in vehicle to be scrapped, the engine rendered unusable and the vehicle’s body crushed. The program ended in November, 2009 after the $3 billion allocated for it had been depleted.

    Used-car prices suddenly went up.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @El Dato

    While prices for older used cars indeed went up during and immediately after the Cash for Clunkers program, the program wasn't the only factor and might not have been the main factor. It all happened during a severe recession, when prices of older used cars always rise due to high demand.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

    , @Mr McKenna
    @El Dato

    A colossal transfer of wealth from taxpayers to car dealers.
    Vot's not to like, boychik?

    , @bomag
    @El Dato

    Good times.

    , @Barnard
    @El Dato

    It is, the primary beneficiaries of Cash for Clunkers were upper middle class and wealthy car buyers who were already going to buy a car or moved up a purchase a few months to take advantage of the rebate. People who needed to buy a used car in the next 18-24 months got hammered. It should have been obvious going into the program what would happen, but no one in the Obama Administration seemed to get it.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  23. @Trevor H.
    If anti-white racism were to teach black people how to be responsible with their money, it would have happened a long time ago. And I'm not sure you can call Jews racist for the systematic targeting of poor blacks, because they systematically target everyone and always have. What word should be used?

    Replies: @El Dato, @Autochthon

    they systematically target everyone and always have. What word should be used?

    “Skynetting”?

    • Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers
    @El Dato

    "Crystallizing Public Opinion"
    "Manufacturing Consent"
    "How To Win Friends and Influence People"
    "Hearts and minds"

    "If a nation expects to be ignorant & free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was & never will be." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    " . . . the key to all ages is—Imbecility; imbecility in the vast majority of men, at all times, and, even in heroes, in all but certain eminent moments; victims of gravity, custom, and fear. This gives force to the strong,—that the multitude have no habit of self-reliance or original action."
    ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Power"

    "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
    ~ Walt Kelly, "Pogo Possum"

    The de-Christianization of America, as described by Fred Reed here at Unz today, and by others elsewhere, has been caused by . . . Christians. Adhere to your bible instead of TV and the church will replace the mall. (Google Americans $850 Billion Christmas 2018.) Apparently, nothing is anyone's fault. "They" are "doing something" to everyone. There are two sides to every trade. Stop buying and they're outa bizniz.

  24. How does “subprime lending” target blacks in particular?

    I thought it was all about enhancing some crappy financial package that retirement fund or a retired whitey would pay good money for, which would then disappear forever (as blacks just would not be be able to assure payment on a too-good-to-be-true deal eventually) with a fat percentage landing in Wall Street Wolves pockets (let the lampposts for them be high and the ropes short).

  25. @El Dato
    @Rob McX

    I think this is actually an allusion to Obama's economically disastrous "cash-for-clunkers" program.


    The program began in July of 2009. To qualify for the credit, a traded-in used car had to be less than 25 years old, have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of less than 18 miles per gallon and be in drivable condition. In addition, the new car being purchased had to have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of more than 22 miles per gallon. The new law required the traded-in vehicle to be scrapped, the engine rendered unusable and the vehicle's body crushed. The program ended in November, 2009 after the $3 billion allocated for it had been depleted.
     
    Used-car prices suddenly went up.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Mr McKenna, @bomag, @Barnard

    While prices for older used cars indeed went up during and immediately after the Cash for Clunkers program, the program wasn’t the only factor and might not have been the main factor. It all happened during a severe recession, when prices of older used cars always rise due to high demand.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @prosa123


    It all happened during a severe recession, when prices of older used cars always rise due to high demand.
     
    During a severe recession, even (and especially) poor people stop buying nearly everything. The only goods & services which retain pricing power are food and emergency medical procedures.

    Replies: @Mike1, @The Alarmist

  26. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    Maybe they were "targeted" and maybe they were getting the most realistic deal possible given that they never had any money and were not reliable repayers.
    Semi-related: black guy makes noise in hotel lobby, refuses to prove he is a guest or explain why he can't take his call in his room, is carted away by cops as a result of his entitled belligerence. This, in racio-fascist Portland. Homeless people, blacks, and, where they occur in numbers, poor mestizos, will essentially camp in "public" areas (like hotel lobbies, municipal library bathrooms, hospital waiting rooms, etc), on the reasoning that the area is "public." The hotel (worrying about this guy enough to ask if he was a guest) has probably had to deal with non-guests walking in and trying to act inconspicuous. Amtrak stations often have prominent signs warning that you have to have a ticket to sit inside; ghetto fast food places have signs warning guests they are allowed to stay for thirty minutes. Another case of the parallel powerpoints: if you've encountered this, it makes perfect sense. If you haven't, it sounds as crazy as black people trying to make cars stop by deliberately jaywalking in front of them.
    https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2018/12/portland-hotel-calls-cops-on-black-guest-in-lobby.html

    Replies: @Anon, @Jim Don Bob

    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!

    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    … for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.

    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn’t live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial “black hole” members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer’s financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. “Sorry mom, these guys won’t let me get at my money, and I need the job.”

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
    @Anon

    Had one of those in the early 1970s, supposedly the last afterglow of near ideal corporate employment. Major corporation offered me salary x, paid a good deal less. Explanation was that they were buying medical insurance and my retirement. No financial counseling, except claims that the company would invest the money in ways they wouldn't tell employees. Well, maybe it was invested that way, I've no way of knowing. Conventional wisdom in the company (deadwood engineers, no kidding) was that the company needed capital and the whole thing was all a scam to hold them in something much like slavery. Employee morale was a bit low. In any case, my standard of living dropped a good deal as opposed to what it had been in college on the GI bill.
    I still consider my time there as the closest I've ever come to death, including the time my parachute failed. I was very lucky to escape.

    So: sounds good in theory, but in practice there might be some drawbacks.

    Counterinsurgency

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Mr McKenna
    @Anon

    The scheme you describe isn't wholly different from Social Security.

    Except for a couple details: SS is a Ponzi Scheme and it's always been an unbearable temptation to politicians to loot. But who would/could run a plan like yours but the government? Heck, even the Pension Guaranty program got politicized and looted, and guess who picks up the bill?

    , @Barnard
    @Anon

    No employer wants to take on all that responsibility for their financially inept employees. They also wouldn't want to locked into these workers and would like the ability to make a clean break with them when they don't show up for three days, etc.

    , @Diversity Heretic
    @Anon

    The spendthrift trust is a legal device along the lines described in your comment. There are also programs for people with substance abuse problems that collect what income they have, pay their bills and give them a monthly or weekly allowance. The idea has merit: Steve has suggested something similar for wealthy athletes to make asset dissipation more difficult.

    , @anon
    @Anon

    We had a system just like that in the South and it worked pretty well for blacks. It was called share-cropping.

    , @EdwardM
    @Anon

    This is how some employers operate in the Gulf. One step above indentured servitude, they provide much of their compensation in-kind (housing, food, transportation), statutory deferred compensation payable upon termination (but often offset by various debts to the company that magically emerge), loans theoretically based on counseling, and, worst of all, collusion with banks for the latter to provide services to employees. E.g.,, the banks only extend credit if the employer agrees to remit the salary to an account at the bank. I have even seen employers commit to get the bank's permission to give a loan to its employees.

    Needless to say, this gets many employees from third-world countries in a lot of trouble. (Add to that they don't even understand what they're signing up for.) They often can't leave the country or extend their visa until they pay off impossible debts. The UAE has an ongoing "amnesty" for visa overstayers, almost all of whom got that way due to indebtedness combined with employment termination.

    Replies: @JMcG

  27. I think this is actually an allusion to Obama’s economically disastrous “cash-for-clunkers” program.

    Trump should start referring to welfare and food stamps as Cash for Clunkers.

    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    @40 Acres and a Kardashian

    Right about the time of "Cash for Clinkers," my employer offered a buy-out program in order to reduce (dead wood) head count. Some of us referred to that as our own "Cash for Clunkers" program.

  28. @Daniel Williams
    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

    Replies: @South Texas Guy, @istevefan, @Digital Samizdat, @The Plutonium Kid

    I don’t know if it’s still true, but I noticed years ago that Conn’s (mentioned by ‘South Texas Guy’ above) only seems to advertise on Spanish TV stations.

  29. Anonymous[279] • Disclaimer says:

    Why knock ‘rent to own’?

    If one has an insatiable hankering for a particular good or chattel, and has impecunious means, and not having the mental strength to delay gratification and save up for the product, then ‘rent to own’ is the only way open to assuage the psychic pain of being bereft of the said product.

  30. @El Dato
    @Rob McX

    I think this is actually an allusion to Obama's economically disastrous "cash-for-clunkers" program.


    The program began in July of 2009. To qualify for the credit, a traded-in used car had to be less than 25 years old, have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of less than 18 miles per gallon and be in drivable condition. In addition, the new car being purchased had to have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of more than 22 miles per gallon. The new law required the traded-in vehicle to be scrapped, the engine rendered unusable and the vehicle's body crushed. The program ended in November, 2009 after the $3 billion allocated for it had been depleted.
     
    Used-car prices suddenly went up.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Mr McKenna, @bomag, @Barnard

    A colossal transfer of wealth from taxpayers to car dealers.
    Vot’s not to like, boychik?

  31. @Rob McX
    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it's 10 years old?

    Replies: @dvorak, @Blackety Black, @El Dato, @Mr McKenna, @Father O'Hara

    Another pertinent question: how can you get 22″ spinners onto a Honda Civic, and where can I borrow the money to facilitate this worthy goal?

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Mr McKenna

    Rats! Ya beat me to the punch.

  32. Anonymous[279] • Disclaimer says:

    But, surely, every single advanced industrial economy is effectively run by ‘rent to own’.

    Capitalist economies depend on enormously expensive investment in industrial plant and machinery in order to necessitate ‘production’ – the mainstay of the economy.

    Typically, this industrial investment is financed through borrowing – even by the the biggest, richest corporations – and therefore is ‘rent to buy’.

    ‘Rent to buy’ is surely one of mankind’s greatest ever inventions.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous

    You are confusing rent to sell with rent to buy. It’s okay sometimes to borrow money to buy an appreciating asset. It’s always foolish to borrow money to buy a depreciating commodity.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @pheasant
    @Anonymous

    along with fractional reserve banking and national debt. Obligatory ((()))

  33. @istevefan
    @Daniel Williams


    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

     

    Whites are the target of a special kind of predatory sales pitch that is directed at whites, and only whites. While blacks might have a weakness for conspicuous consumption, whites have white guilt. And just as blacks are exploited over their weakness, whites are being exploited over theirs.

    Whites are more gullible than blacks, and the proof is right in front of our eyes. While it is true blacks might end up paying more in interest and fees for consumer goods, whites are literally handing away their countries and wealth to nonwhites. Hell even the last post on this blog is about a new sales pitch that is attempting to convince whites that they don't even have a right to be American citizens anymore. And the scary thing is that it might work. It has as good a chance of working as selling a 10 year old Civic to a brother for $18k does.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @TTSSYF

    A sobering, trenchant assessment.

  34. @Buzz Mohawk
    @International Jew

    Hasn't Steve been reading everything in the NYT every day approximately forever? You would think if it had been in there he would have seen it. Some times you gotta believe the witness when he tells you he didn't see something.

    Your question is like asking a man who lives in Los Angeles to give you numbers when he tells you it never snows there.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @International Jew

    Right, and because there is sometimes snow visible in the distant mountains in the winter months, just as there have been goyishe slumlords, so until and unless you see this slur documented in Our Paper of Record, shut up cracker!

  35. @prosa123
    @El Dato

    While prices for older used cars indeed went up during and immediately after the Cash for Clunkers program, the program wasn't the only factor and might not have been the main factor. It all happened during a severe recession, when prices of older used cars always rise due to high demand.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

    It all happened during a severe recession, when prices of older used cars always rise due to high demand.

    During a severe recession, even (and especially) poor people stop buying nearly everything. The only goods & services which retain pricing power are food and emergency medical procedures.

    • Replies: @Mike1
    @Mr McKenna

    Not accurate. Poor people buy used cars for cash during recessions. They can't get loans.

    , @The Alarmist
    @Mr McKenna


    "During a severe recession, even (and especially) poor people stop buying nearly everything. The only goods & services which retain pricing power are food and emergency medical procedures."
     
    And Alcohol.
  36. @Viral Architect
    But nobody ever thinks to ask: Is it good for the whites?

    Just as nobody ever thinks to ask:

    Is it good for the cockroaches?
    Is it good for the rats?
    Is it good for the evil people who owe a permanent and increasing debt to all communities of color?

    Replies: @fish, @Anonym, @Rufus, @nebulafox

    Just as nobody ever thinks to ask:

    Is it good for the cockroaches?
    Is it good for the rats?
    Is it good for the evil people who owe a permanent and increasing debt to all communities of color?

    Ohs Tinys……

    Dat bein U……pretendin to b som body else?

    Lendnerp “teh deetektif” Pitx

  37. @40 Acres and a Kardashian

    I think this is actually an allusion to Obama’s economically disastrous “cash-for-clunkers” program.
     
    Trump should start referring to welfare and food stamps as Cash for Clunkers.

    Replies: @E. Rekshun

    Right about the time of “Cash for Clinkers,” my employer offered a buy-out program in order to reduce (dead wood) head count. Some of us referred to that as our own “Cash for Clunkers” program.

  38. @Anon
    @J.Ross


    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!
     
    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    ... for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.
     
    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn't live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial "black hole" members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer's financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. "Sorry mom, these guys won't let me get at my money, and I need the job."

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @Mr McKenna, @Barnard, @Diversity Heretic, @anon, @EdwardM

    Had one of those in the early 1970s, supposedly the last afterglow of near ideal corporate employment. Major corporation offered me salary x, paid a good deal less. Explanation was that they were buying medical insurance and my retirement. No financial counseling, except claims that the company would invest the money in ways they wouldn’t tell employees. Well, maybe it was invested that way, I’ve no way of knowing. Conventional wisdom in the company (deadwood engineers, no kidding) was that the company needed capital and the whole thing was all a scam to hold them in something much like slavery. Employee morale was a bit low. In any case, my standard of living dropped a good deal as opposed to what it had been in college on the GI bill.
    I still consider my time there as the closest I’ve ever come to death, including the time my parachute failed. I was very lucky to escape.

    So: sounds good in theory, but in practice there might be some drawbacks.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Counterinsurgency

    Well, that was a scam.

    I would foresee this as ideally a separate company (or a new industry with many different companies), regulated as a financial organanization with fiduciary responsibility, and not under the control of the companies whose payroll it handles. It would be a blend of financial counseling, investment management (in bonds, conservative securities, plain old savings accounts), insurance industry, and a bit of the streetwise ways of bail bondsmen and debt collectors (not in content, but in badassedness), cobbled together by lawyers using contract and trusts and estates law, or ideally by new legislation authorizing such compensation schemes, audited by the government.

    The goal would be to enforce good financial behavior on those who don't come by it naturally. In a Darwinian world, you can say that the weak-willed deserve what happens to them. But I can see people who know that they cannot manage money being interested in such a compensation scheme, and people who have manipulative families being eager to have an excuse to not give in to interfamilial pressure to give away their money.

    Replies: @bomag, @Counterinsurgency

  39. People who can’t pay cash and have a poor credit history always end up paying through the nose, be they black or white. This company in the UK sells predominantly to white people in rented accommodation or social housing, and who don’t like buying second hand white goods.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrightHouse_(retailer)

    “The company charges interest of between 69.9% and 99.9% APR, and also charges for delivery, installation and compulsory warranties. An investigation by the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire programme in 2016 cited an example of a washing machine costing £358, with a £55 delivery and installation charge and compulsory £136 warranty. The total cost of the appliance was £1,092 at Brighthouse’s typical interest rate of 69.9%.”

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @YetAnotherAnon


    People who can’t pay cash and have a poor credit history always end up paying through the nose, be they black or white.
     
    But it's only tragic when they're POC. Meanwhile there are smart people of every race who simply decide to put off buying things they can't afford. The actual distribution by race, well, that's just not the sort of thing we talk about, is it.
  40. Anonymous[279] • Disclaimer says:

    It wasn’t particularly long ago that most householders in the UK used to rent their color TV sets from specialist retailers who used to deal in this particular line – every British main street had a whole slew of stores from rival chains who did this business.

    I never remembered anyone or any organisation moaning about this set up.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    @Anonymous

    We used to go round to our neighbours house if we wanted to watch something in colour, I remember going round to watch the Beatles Magical Mystery Tour.

    Replies: @rufus

  41. @Viral Architect
    But nobody ever thinks to ask: Is it good for the whites?

    Just as nobody ever thinks to ask:

    Is it good for the cockroaches?
    Is it good for the rats?
    Is it good for the evil people who owe a permanent and increasing debt to all communities of color?

    Replies: @fish, @Anonym, @Rufus, @nebulafox

    Lol yes. It is up to ask to ask, in our own publications. But will we be permitted to have them outside of cyberspace? Or will they (((Shut it down!))) That is a good question. It is a kind of asymmetrical war being waged on us. Which way would they have us respond? What would our own version of )))Shut it down!((( look like if we were to play it? At least we are allowed to play on unz.com and I am grateful for that.

    Nice play on words with your handle btw.

    Sorcerers of madness, selling me their time…

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Anonym

    You work your life away and what do they give?
    You're only killing yourself to live
    Killing yourself to live

    Replies: @Anonym

  42. @Anon
    @J.Ross


    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!
     
    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    ... for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.
     
    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn't live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial "black hole" members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer's financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. "Sorry mom, these guys won't let me get at my money, and I need the job."

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @Mr McKenna, @Barnard, @Diversity Heretic, @anon, @EdwardM

    The scheme you describe isn’t wholly different from Social Security.

    Except for a couple details: SS is a Ponzi Scheme and it’s always been an unbearable temptation to politicians to loot. But who would/could run a plan like yours but the government? Heck, even the Pension Guaranty program got politicized and looted, and guess who picks up the bill?

  43. @Anonymous
    But, surely, every single advanced industrial economy is effectively run by 'rent to own'.

    Capitalist economies depend on enormously expensive investment in industrial plant and machinery in order to necessitate 'production' - the mainstay of the economy.

    Typically, this industrial investment is financed through borrowing - even by the the biggest, richest corporations - and therefore is 'rent to buy'.

    'Rent to buy' is surely one of mankind's greatest ever inventions.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @pheasant

    You are confusing rent to sell with rent to buy. It’s okay sometimes to borrow money to buy an appreciating asset. It’s always foolish to borrow money to buy a depreciating commodity.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Autos are a depreciating asset and the entire US auto industry is based on "rent to own" and always has been. Even rich people lease their cars nowadays. If you had to have the full purchase price before you could buy a car, they wouldn't sell many cars. I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.


    The difference is that the poor pay higher rates to reflect their high likelihood of default. At the bottom end of the market nowadays, they install remote cutoff devices and your car won't run until you make your payment.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Twinkie, @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar

  44. And that explains a lot about the motivations behind the businesses in the immigration lobby: more uneducated, innumerate, insecure Mexicans are more fresh meat for their salesmen. They can’t rip off educated white people who subscribe to Consumer Reporters and use the Zag system reserved for CR subscribers, so they want to bring in millions of new people they can outsmart and cheat.

    But, doesn’t the immigration lobby also bring in millions of Asians who are the opposites of Mexicans in this regard? They tend to squeeze out the most product for the buck (or pay the lowest price possible). Maybe businesses just want more people/customers, dumb or otherwise, period.

    • Replies: @Rufus
    @Twinkie

    They wherjouse them in slums in koreatown etc. See Donald Sterling. Sure the waltons sell more toilet paper, sholom stacks dominicans six abreast in Miami and spanish Harlem, but the Americans pick up the tab for schooling, medical care, roads and traffic, prisons, environmental degradation, corruption etc etc. # mass immigration

    , @J.Ross
    @Twinkie


    doesn’t the immigration lobby also bring in millions of Asians who are the opposites of Mexicans in this regard
     
    A certain amount of failure cannot refute clear intent. I don't know. I was under the impression that smart Asians largely came on their own or with family help to get a good college degree, or start a business with less hassle than possible at home. They're self-motivated kulaks, not conveyor belted peasants.
    That said, somebody's buying all that royal jelly.
  45. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Counterinsurgency
    @Anon

    Had one of those in the early 1970s, supposedly the last afterglow of near ideal corporate employment. Major corporation offered me salary x, paid a good deal less. Explanation was that they were buying medical insurance and my retirement. No financial counseling, except claims that the company would invest the money in ways they wouldn't tell employees. Well, maybe it was invested that way, I've no way of knowing. Conventional wisdom in the company (deadwood engineers, no kidding) was that the company needed capital and the whole thing was all a scam to hold them in something much like slavery. Employee morale was a bit low. In any case, my standard of living dropped a good deal as opposed to what it had been in college on the GI bill.
    I still consider my time there as the closest I've ever come to death, including the time my parachute failed. I was very lucky to escape.

    So: sounds good in theory, but in practice there might be some drawbacks.

    Counterinsurgency

    Replies: @Anon

    Well, that was a scam.

    I would foresee this as ideally a separate company (or a new industry with many different companies), regulated as a financial organanization with fiduciary responsibility, and not under the control of the companies whose payroll it handles. It would be a blend of financial counseling, investment management (in bonds, conservative securities, plain old savings accounts), insurance industry, and a bit of the streetwise ways of bail bondsmen and debt collectors (not in content, but in badassedness), cobbled together by lawyers using contract and trusts and estates law, or ideally by new legislation authorizing such compensation schemes, audited by the government.

    The goal would be to enforce good financial behavior on those who don’t come by it naturally. In a Darwinian world, you can say that the weak-willed deserve what happens to them. But I can see people who know that they cannot manage money being interested in such a compensation scheme, and people who have manipulative families being eager to have an excuse to not give in to interfamilial pressure to give away their money.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Anon

    Interesting plan, and there are forms out there, e.g some churches (Hutterites, Scientology?); Indian tribes. Problems here are corruption of the controlling agents.

    Many small business loans fit this model, with the bank stipulating where the money goes, and if someone has a problem with it, they have to talk to the bank and those layers of bureaucracy.

    , @Counterinsurgency
    @Anon

    From what I know now, it probably wasn't intended as a scam by the corporation. This was back in the days of Anglo Saxon management, but well after the Gilded Age, and the top managers mostly had a desire to be good stewards. Unfortunately, what they accomplished wasn't what they tried for, and the whole thing was _treated_ as a scam by employees. As a direct result, they had immense trouble holding on to productive people. I had the impression, actually, that they'd quit trying and were conducting a play, a play entitled "caring management".

    Now, back to your proposal.
    The last time this was tried on a wide basis was after the fall of the Roman Empire, I believe c.a. AD 900 during the Northman breakout , and it proved to be the dominant social form for quite some time. Basic idea was to have fortified redoubts that the Northmen could not take quickly, as they couldn't carry heavy siege gear in longboats. While the Northmen were slowly taking the fort, heavy cavalry and supporting militia from neighboring strongholds would attack the Northmen. This also, of course, provided the local King with heavy cavalry and supporting militia. Like most military organizations, the manors were designed by geniuses for execution by idiots -- everything was proscribed, just as it was in the Bronze Age middle eastern empires. The basic organization was, in theory, familial, the manor lord being in loco parentis to everybody in the manor except priests, representatives of the king, and so on. Duties were reciprocal, and modeled on that of parent to relatives. The system extended all the way to the king. In short, it was (in general feel) just like the system you propose, and it even (with the 3 field system) increased agricultural productivity. What I ran into back in the early 1970s was sometimes called "industrial feudalism". As the manor system grew from the old Roman villa system (made much more humane), the industrial feudalism grew from the monopoly corporations of the Gilded Age, in which management and many clerical employees were treated as sort of family members by upper management, perhaps to ensure continuity, perhaps for religious reasons (I actually had a relative whose career was in that milieu).

    So what you suggested could work. There is another point, however. Such a system only works when the alternatives are all much worse materially, such as being raided by Vikings back c.a. AD 900, and only works when there is a system of punishments, culminating in an exile worse than death (such as being a middle age clerk blackballed during the Gilded Age), to encourage compliance.
    One needs a chaotic environment for a motivator, rather like Skinner boxes need a hungry animal for the training to take. Fortunately, the chaotic environment appears to be on the way.

    And why do I say the above? Well, the environment really doesn't seem paradisaical to those within it, but sometimes its necessary for survival. If so, it should be implemented and administered as something necessary. If one depends on employees (or personnel) to be greatful, well, it's sort of like trying for a family that depends on childrens' gratitude and good sense to maintain obedience to parents. The system fails somewhere during the terrible twos. And your suggestion is too good a suggestion to fail because of something so trivial.

    Counterinsurgency

  46. @Reg Cæsar
    So is Aaron Ross a black Coleman, an Irish Coleman, or a Jewish Coleman?

    I know I could look it up, but can't be bothered to, so it's rhetorical.

    Replies: @Rufus

    Bruh. Check your intersectionality scorecard ?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Rufus


    Bruh. Check your intersectionality scorecard ?
     
    Oh, I'm very intersectional. Straight, white, male, cis-, German, English, Papist, reactionary, reproductive... the intersection of everything they hate!
  47. @Viral Architect
    But nobody ever thinks to ask: Is it good for the whites?

    Just as nobody ever thinks to ask:

    Is it good for the cockroaches?
    Is it good for the rats?
    Is it good for the evil people who owe a permanent and increasing debt to all communities of color?

    Replies: @fish, @Anonym, @Rufus, @nebulafox

    Coc*

  48. @Rob McX
    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it's 10 years old?

    Replies: @dvorak, @Blackety Black, @El Dato, @Mr McKenna, @Father O'Hara

    One bought by vin diesel?
    Remember the Taurus SHO? I’d love to find a great condition lo miles SHO. It’s a clean machine.

  49. @South Texas Guy
    @Daniel Williams

    "Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?"

    Or Mexicans for that matter. Steve's been through this here on the blog and many of us live it. Simply put, Whites, and Asians, do their homework on big purchases, and know the value of shopping around.

    The last time I bought a new vehicle, I paid all of about $340 in interest on a three year loan. I'm not rich, but I pay my bills on time, so I have good credit. I can't count how many times I've drilled this into my white and darker hued friends that it is not a good idea to have the electric company cut off your lights, or whatnot. But that's a lesson you either get or you don't.

    Replies: @Rufus

    Have I got a Civic for you ! This bad boy drives women wild.

  50. @40 Acres and a Kardashian
    In The Autobiography of Malcolm X, the author recounts this joke as supposedly being told by Barry Goldwater:

    A white man, a Negro, and a Jew all die and go to heaven. St. Peter tells each of them he can grant them two wishes to insure them a happy eternity.

    The white man asks for a nice home in the suburbs and a well-balanced investment portfolio.

    The black guy asks for a million dollars cash and a brand new Cadillac.

    The Jew asks for "some imitation jewelry and that colored boy's address."
     

    Replies: @Father O'Hara

    The way I heard it the Jew asks for 10 lbs of cocaine and a harem of young white girls.
    The black guy says, “Yo hole up chief. Can I change my answer?”

  51. @Twinkie

    And that explains a lot about the motivations behind the businesses in the immigration lobby: more uneducated, innumerate, insecure Mexicans are more fresh meat for their salesmen. They can’t rip off educated white people who subscribe to Consumer Reporters and use the Zag system reserved for CR subscribers, so they want to bring in millions of new people they can outsmart and cheat.
     
    But, doesn’t the immigration lobby also bring in millions of Asians who are the opposites of Mexicans in this regard? They tend to squeeze out the most product for the buck (or pay the lowest price possible). Maybe businesses just want more people/customers, dumb or otherwise, period.

    Replies: @Rufus, @J.Ross

    They wherjouse them in slums in koreatown etc. See Donald Sterling. Sure the waltons sell more toilet paper, sholom stacks dominicans six abreast in Miami and spanish Harlem, but the Americans pick up the tab for schooling, medical care, roads and traffic, prisons, environmental degradation, corruption etc etc. # mass immigration

  52. @Anonymous
    But, surely, every single advanced industrial economy is effectively run by 'rent to own'.

    Capitalist economies depend on enormously expensive investment in industrial plant and machinery in order to necessitate 'production' - the mainstay of the economy.

    Typically, this industrial investment is financed through borrowing - even by the the biggest, richest corporations - and therefore is 'rent to buy'.

    'Rent to buy' is surely one of mankind's greatest ever inventions.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @pheasant

    along with fractional reserve banking and national debt. Obligatory ((()))

  53. @Anonymous
    It wasn't particularly long ago that most householders in the UK used to rent their color TV sets from specialist retailers who used to deal in this particular line - every British main street had a whole slew of stores from rival chains who did this business.

    I never remembered anyone or any organisation moaning about this set up.

    Replies: @jim jones

    We used to go round to our neighbours house if we wanted to watch something in colour, I remember going round to watch the Beatles Magical Mystery Tour.

    • Replies: @rufus
    @jim jones

    Prob is theyd be watching Univision now.

  54. Since 2004, I’ve bought 3 new cars, paying all cash/trade in on each. First 2 times, purchased Jeep Grand Cherokees. In both of those transactions, was treated like some kind of insane person for not financing. Was very clear that the dealerships were selling financing as much as an SUV. #3d and latest purchase was for a Subaru, and there was none of that. Part of the reason I went with the Subaru after the last Jeep died at around 125K miles was cost of ownership. The Jeeps became money pits after 75K miles, Subarus are basically indestructible and great on gas. Would note that despite all 3 dealers bing in the 5 boros on NYC, saw no African-Americans at Subaru, while the 2 Jeep dealers had a diverse clientele.

  55. @Anon
    @Counterinsurgency

    Well, that was a scam.

    I would foresee this as ideally a separate company (or a new industry with many different companies), regulated as a financial organanization with fiduciary responsibility, and not under the control of the companies whose payroll it handles. It would be a blend of financial counseling, investment management (in bonds, conservative securities, plain old savings accounts), insurance industry, and a bit of the streetwise ways of bail bondsmen and debt collectors (not in content, but in badassedness), cobbled together by lawyers using contract and trusts and estates law, or ideally by new legislation authorizing such compensation schemes, audited by the government.

    The goal would be to enforce good financial behavior on those who don't come by it naturally. In a Darwinian world, you can say that the weak-willed deserve what happens to them. But I can see people who know that they cannot manage money being interested in such a compensation scheme, and people who have manipulative families being eager to have an excuse to not give in to interfamilial pressure to give away their money.

    Replies: @bomag, @Counterinsurgency

    Interesting plan, and there are forms out there, e.g some churches (Hutterites, Scientology?); Indian tribes. Problems here are corruption of the controlling agents.

    Many small business loans fit this model, with the bank stipulating where the money goes, and if someone has a problem with it, they have to talk to the bank and those layers of bureaucracy.

  56. Anonymous [AKA "Big Ray"] says:

    The key phrase is “Out Smarted” …. Basic IQ is the number one factor. Most people don’t like to hear it but we have an IQ strata with Asians on top, then whites close behind and blacks trailing by a significant percentage. Not PC but true. So even though we prop them up with affirmative action, free welfare systems and other handouts, they continue to fail at assimilation, education and become victims which is perfect for Liberal political manipulation. Oh yes, they also are ripe for victimization financially. Just look around next time you are at any large scale gathering. Blacks that are working will be in the food service or basic labor side of the equation while Whites and Asians enjoy their so called privilege. But is it privilege when earned? Jews, Whites and Asians have coherent family units, focus on education and abstain from drugs / crime. Good decision making leads to “privilege”.

  57. @Trevor H.
    If anti-white racism were to teach black people how to be responsible with their money, it would have happened a long time ago. And I'm not sure you can call Jews racist for the systematic targeting of poor blacks, because they systematically target everyone and always have. What word should be used?

    Replies: @El Dato, @Autochthon

    “Jewish” or “Hebrew” suffice with no need for an additional adjective. It used to be anyone with half a brain knew these people were parasitic, shifty, etc.; if, nowadays, a Woke moron has wilfully discarded his forefathers’ wisdom and doesn’t know better, more fool him.

    If you absolutely insist on another adjective, “usurious” works well because it denotes the money-grubbing at others’ expense, and derives from Latin uti: “to use” – which is what they do to everyone else.

  58. @El Dato
    @Rob McX

    I think this is actually an allusion to Obama's economically disastrous "cash-for-clunkers" program.


    The program began in July of 2009. To qualify for the credit, a traded-in used car had to be less than 25 years old, have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of less than 18 miles per gallon and be in drivable condition. In addition, the new car being purchased had to have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of more than 22 miles per gallon. The new law required the traded-in vehicle to be scrapped, the engine rendered unusable and the vehicle's body crushed. The program ended in November, 2009 after the $3 billion allocated for it had been depleted.
     
    Used-car prices suddenly went up.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Mr McKenna, @bomag, @Barnard

    Good times.

  59. I have a problem with this:

    ” “White businessmen now recognize that the urban poor and lower-income consumers can be made to pay much higher prices than affluent white suburbanites for commodities, so long as adequate lines of credit are made available to them.””

    Why is it that liberals act as if there aren’t:

    1) Affluent black people.
    2) Affluent black people who are suburbanites?

    This constant “povertizing” of black people is one of the reason I don’t deal with libs/dems anymore.

    That said when I brought my first new car I bought in an upscale neighborhood and got shafted. I didn’t know it because I wasn’t financially literate. That was *my* fault. Should the finance department been more ethical? Sure but it’s buyer beware. This was *before* the internet. Before the internet was on your phone. I don’t care how “non-affluent” the neighborhood, every mofo “in the hood” has a smartphone of some sort or a friend with a smartphone of some vintage. If you don’t do research it’s because *you didn’t care to*. That’s not racism. That’s lack of motivation.

  60. @J.Ross
    Maybe they were "targeted" and maybe they were getting the most realistic deal possible given that they never had any money and were not reliable repayers.
    Semi-related: black guy makes noise in hotel lobby, refuses to prove he is a guest or explain why he can't take his call in his room, is carted away by cops as a result of his entitled belligerence. This, in racio-fascist Portland. Homeless people, blacks, and, where they occur in numbers, poor mestizos, will essentially camp in "public" areas (like hotel lobbies, municipal library bathrooms, hospital waiting rooms, etc), on the reasoning that the area is "public." The hotel (worrying about this guy enough to ask if he was a guest) has probably had to deal with non-guests walking in and trying to act inconspicuous. Amtrak stations often have prominent signs warning that you have to have a ticket to sit inside; ghetto fast food places have signs warning guests they are allowed to stay for thirty minutes. Another case of the parallel powerpoints: if you've encountered this, it makes perfect sense. If you haven't, it sounds as crazy as black people trying to make cars stop by deliberately jaywalking in front of them.
    https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2018/12/portland-hotel-calls-cops-on-black-guest-in-lobby.html

    Replies: @Anon, @Jim Don Bob

    Amtrak stations often have prominent signs warning that you have to have a ticket to sit inside;

    I took Amtrak from NYC to DC last Sunday. The only waiting area with seats was reserved for customers. You had to show your ticket to get in.

    Allowing bums to defile public spaces is another reason we can’t have nice things anymore, like seating in a station.

  61. @Blackety Black
    @Rob McX


    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?
     
    The kind an underemployed black man with shit credit can’t afford, and can’t make much of a down payment, so signs a 72 month contract with a usurious level of interest tacked on, bringing the grand total of the piece of shit civic to 18K that he will end up paying if he doesn’t default on the loan during that time, doesn’t need a major repair, and one of his shitty cousins doesn’t crash it.

    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans. Cap it, and let the market figure out what to do. Interest above 15% for anything should be outlawed. Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so, while blacks would find it a little more difficult to ruin their financial lives! Everybody wins!

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Jack D

    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans.

    One of the major reasons the big credit card companies set up shop in Delaware and South Dakota in the 70s is that neither state has usury laws, so they can charge 20%+ on unpaid balances.

  62. @Twinkie
    @Anonymous

    You are confusing rent to sell with rent to buy. It’s okay sometimes to borrow money to buy an appreciating asset. It’s always foolish to borrow money to buy a depreciating commodity.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Autos are a depreciating asset and the entire US auto industry is based on “rent to own” and always has been. Even rich people lease their cars nowadays. If you had to have the full purchase price before you could buy a car, they wouldn’t sell many cars. I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.

    The difference is that the poor pay higher rates to reflect their high likelihood of default. At the bottom end of the market nowadays, they install remote cutoff devices and your car won’t run until you make your payment.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)
     
    Me too, but I don't buy them new. My last car got me a $200 trade-in allowance, and I was informed that it would soon be starting a new life as a taxi in Africa.

    Replies: @rufus, @Jack D

    , @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)
     
    Same here.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @istevefan
    @Jack D


    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.
     
    I don't know what the actual figure is, but let's say the average time between buying a new/used vehicle for an American is about 4 years. So every 4 years the average American replaces their car. If you were to increase that interval to 5 years, you would probably cause a recession. If you were to increase it to 6 years, you would probably cause a depression.

    I too keep my cars for a long time. If you and I represented the typical American, we'd crater the car industry. Like the rest of our economy, the car industry is built upon waste. It requires frequent disposal to survive.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)
     
    That's about when we buy them. Also for cash.

    But I just inherited a 14-year-old car. First of ours built in this century. I'm glad my mom insisted on five-on-the-floor. Great fun to drive.

  63. @dvorak
    @Rob McX


    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?
     
    One with a 7 year loan at 10% and a monthly payment of $299. Legal at every dealership or, if not, at buy-here-pay-here lots.
    http://www.bhphinfo.com/
    (To the author's point, most retail stores sell debt as their primary product).

    Replies: @South Texas Guy, @Jim Don Bob

    (To the author’s point, most retail stores sell debt as their primary product).

    Right. That and $4 warranties on a $35 product.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jim Don Bob


    Right. That and $4 warranties on a $35 product.
     
    The warranties are an incredible scam. I recently saw somebody in the check-out line ahead of me at a low-end department store buy a warranty on an electric pancake grill.

    Do black people buy those useless warranties too? My impression is that they are more of a white thing.

    Replies: @Corn

  64. @Anonymous
    The couch and the stereo can go back when they stop paying for it. When they default on the house suddenly the taxpayer is on the hook.

    Replies: @Prodigal son

    And when they stopped paying their mortgages they were able to live rent free for 2 years or more before the banks evicted them.

  65. @istevefan
    @Daniel Williams


    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

     

    Whites are the target of a special kind of predatory sales pitch that is directed at whites, and only whites. While blacks might have a weakness for conspicuous consumption, whites have white guilt. And just as blacks are exploited over their weakness, whites are being exploited over theirs.

    Whites are more gullible than blacks, and the proof is right in front of our eyes. While it is true blacks might end up paying more in interest and fees for consumer goods, whites are literally handing away their countries and wealth to nonwhites. Hell even the last post on this blog is about a new sales pitch that is attempting to convince whites that they don't even have a right to be American citizens anymore. And the scary thing is that it might work. It has as good a chance of working as selling a 10 year old Civic to a brother for $18k does.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @TTSSYF

    While I agree with nearly everything you write, including this post, I believe that what you call “gullible” is more accurately described as “high-trust”. It’s what enables whites to build functional societies. Yes, we sign contracts, but they’re only as good as the intent behind them. This characteristic of high-trust, gentlemen’s agreements, word-of-honor, respect for institutions, etc., is exploited by those who don’t share it, including the millions of immigrants we’ve received from Third-World countries over the past several decades. I don’t know that it’s that non-whites are less gullible…I think it’s more that they’re just cynical, lacking in impulse-control / ability to defer gratification, and/or don’t come from high-trust societies.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @TTSSYF

    "High-trust" is literally just an extremely esoteric, less derogatory way to say "gullible." They refer to identical concepts. There's nothing else to it.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @J.Ross

  66. @El Dato
    @Rob McX

    I think this is actually an allusion to Obama's economically disastrous "cash-for-clunkers" program.


    The program began in July of 2009. To qualify for the credit, a traded-in used car had to be less than 25 years old, have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of less than 18 miles per gallon and be in drivable condition. In addition, the new car being purchased had to have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of more than 22 miles per gallon. The new law required the traded-in vehicle to be scrapped, the engine rendered unusable and the vehicle's body crushed. The program ended in November, 2009 after the $3 billion allocated for it had been depleted.
     
    Used-car prices suddenly went up.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Mr McKenna, @bomag, @Barnard

    It is, the primary beneficiaries of Cash for Clunkers were upper middle class and wealthy car buyers who were already going to buy a car or moved up a purchase a few months to take advantage of the rebate. People who needed to buy a used car in the next 18-24 months got hammered. It should have been obvious going into the program what would happen, but no one in the Obama Administration seemed to get it.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Barnard


    It should have been obvious going into the program what would happen, but no one in the Obama Administration seemed to get it.
     
    FIFY.

    It should have been obvious going into the program what would happen, but no one in the Obama Administration cared.
  67. Predatory retail schemes, are strictly motivated by money, not by politics, or race. They don’t care if the customer is black or white or Asian, they want to milk the customer for money. Often the salespeople or business owners involved are non-white minorities.

    The NYT presents this story exclusively through a racial political view. It’s not just predatory salespeople villains looking to fleece unsuspecting victim customers, it’s a racial story of white race villains and black race victims.

    NYT really is morally in the wrong here. Other journalists, beyond Sailer, even mainstream journalists, should point this out as wrong.

  68. There certainly do seem to be a number of businesses that have a predatory business model and offer inferior merchandise at high prices via credit.

    For example, even leaving aside the obvious case of payday lenders, there is a furniture store chain called Badc*ck in my area, and perhaps in yours that advertises credit available to all, but as I have pointed out to others, if that is the case, then the mark up on the furniture must be very high to offer credit and deal with creditors who default.

    And in fact my chief objection, being someone who knows a bit about furniture as a result of having spent my entire teens in auction houses, is that the furniture they sell is utter crap.

    Same goes for used car dealers, where the aim is more to sell a financing deal than a car that meets the needs of the consumer, and a great deal of input goes into polishing the outside of the vehicle to sell it for a high price, rather than fixing any mechanical faults or maintenance issues.

    Car repair shops will sometimes try to charge you an exorbitant fee for “diagnosis” even when you tell them exactly what the problem is. When I bought a new remote control key for my Honda, I was charged $80 for the key, which seemed fair enough and was the price I was quoted on the phone, plus an additional $110 for “labour” for programing the key, which took about 10 minutes and might have been included in the price of the key. These kind of practices may not be deliberately targeted at minorities, being somewhat standard in the US, but minorities and immigrants may identify them as discriminatory.

    Are they white-owned and the customers primarily minorities who lack financial sophistication. I think this is often, but not always the case.

    Personally, although I am white, I am very cautious about doing business with white Americans abd corporations and often favor Asian, Hispanic or black sellers

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    If you still have 1 working key it is usually possible to program additional keys yourself, depend on the brand. There is usually some trick sequence of steps - turn the key to the on position, press a button on the remote, spin around and click your heels 3 times, etc. Google is your friend.

    Your best bet in mechanics is usually some cranky old white guy. Avoid the dealers like the plague. I have a guy who allows me to bring him parts (which you can usually source on the internet much cheaper than from the dealer or even the local auto parts st0re) and he charges me for labor only. I pay him cash and it's always some (low) round $ - $100 or $200. There's no way you can keep a car for 15 years if you keep taking back to the dealer - the cost will kill you. Auto mechanics are like waiters in Jewish delis - unless they are old and cranky you are not getting the full experience.

    Replies: @JMcG

  69. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Autos are a depreciating asset and the entire US auto industry is based on "rent to own" and always has been. Even rich people lease their cars nowadays. If you had to have the full purchase price before you could buy a car, they wouldn't sell many cars. I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.


    The difference is that the poor pay higher rates to reflect their high likelihood of default. At the bottom end of the market nowadays, they install remote cutoff devices and your car won't run until you make your payment.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Twinkie, @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar

    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)

    Me too, but I don’t buy them new. My last car got me a $200 trade-in allowance, and I was informed that it would soon be starting a new life as a taxi in Africa.

    • Replies: @rufus
    @Jonathan Mason

    ...Did you at least scrub all the racist graffiti ?

    , @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    $200 is low. You should have been able to get more on Craigslist. I think I got $600 for my last Audi with a blown engine. Some African guy (living in the US) was going to make 1 car out of 2.

    I usually buy demos at the end of the model year. These might have 1,000 miles on them but carry new car warranties. Sometimes the manufacturers chip in to enable the dealer to clear these out. The dealer markup on new cars is not that big (although they get "holdback" which means that they pay less than "invoice") but the manufacturer can put many thousands on the hood if they want.

    Replies: @Dtbb

  70. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    Anybody else just “notice” that certain kinds of Arabs (Chaldeans) are going in for once Jewish stereotype professions like the urban slum Merchant “Kaufman” offering high priced, low quality items – convenience stores in the ‘hood” or dollar stores offering sox and paint brushes that simply don’t last.

    These immigrant merchants in the hood are strongly resented, hated most everywhere from Black rioters targeting Koreans in the Rodney King riots LA riots ~ 1991, to unemployed Germans targeting Jewish merchants in Weimar Republic Germany, to victorious ethnic Viet Namese Communists targeting Chinese Merchants.

    This is the way it is. Sensible nationalist leaders like Vladimir Putin or the founder of modern Singapore President Lee understand this.

    And folks, let’s have very little, or no utopian free market Libertarian nonsense posted here at the Unz Review.

    We simply can not unrestricted immigration of racial and ethnic merchant groups that will do what Jewish carpet baggers did after the American Civil War ended.

  71. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)
     
    Me too, but I don't buy them new. My last car got me a $200 trade-in allowance, and I was informed that it would soon be starting a new life as a taxi in Africa.

    Replies: @rufus, @Jack D

    …Did you at least scrub all the racist graffiti ?

  72. @jim jones
    @Anonymous

    We used to go round to our neighbours house if we wanted to watch something in colour, I remember going round to watch the Beatles Magical Mystery Tour.

    Replies: @rufus

    Prob is theyd be watching Univision now.

  73. @Anon
    @J.Ross


    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!
     
    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    ... for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.
     
    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn't live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial "black hole" members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer's financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. "Sorry mom, these guys won't let me get at my money, and I need the job."

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @Mr McKenna, @Barnard, @Diversity Heretic, @anon, @EdwardM

    No employer wants to take on all that responsibility for their financially inept employees. They also wouldn’t want to locked into these workers and would like the ability to make a clean break with them when they don’t show up for three days, etc.

  74. @Anon
    @J.Ross


    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!
     
    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    ... for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.
     
    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn't live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial "black hole" members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer's financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. "Sorry mom, these guys won't let me get at my money, and I need the job."

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @Mr McKenna, @Barnard, @Diversity Heretic, @anon, @EdwardM

    The spendthrift trust is a legal device along the lines described in your comment. There are also programs for people with substance abuse problems that collect what income they have, pay their bills and give them a monthly or weekly allowance. The idea has merit: Steve has suggested something similar for wealthy athletes to make asset dissipation more difficult.

  75. Perhaps “rent to own” and other similar schemes predated blacks’ and Hispanics’ experience with credit, but these arrangements are in practice much more bilateral than the advocates are proposing.

    You’d be amazed (perhaps not) by how blacks and Hispanics default on loans – including mortgages – after only the first few payments. No matter how you explain it, the idea that they can possess something but that it is not theirs until it is paid for in full doesn’t seem to penetrate. Once they have it, it’s theirs, and the creditor is viewed as some sort of annoyance. These people are by and large judgment-proof – they don’t fear judgments and liens the way that middle class people do.

    The idea that the lender will ever recoup the (inflated) amount due is risible. Rent-to-own and subprime lending is simply calculated to more sharply front-load the profit prior to the eventual default and the compensate for the costs of recovering the asset.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Alec Leamas

    This is exactly right. I can add to it though. How many people do you know who refer to their house as “their house” even though they have 20 years left on the mortgage?
    I always call it the bank’s house. After that, it’ll be the government’s house. See what happens if you stop paying property taxes.

  76. Anonymous[127] • Disclaimer says:

    I have noticed that lately elite white liberals are really going down the road of believing, really crossing the Rubicon of believing, that black and brown folks, muslims, and even women in many cases simply don’t have human agency.

    Example here: I don’t think ten years ago the NY Times would have included the part about the “Beats by Dre” Headphones in this op-ed. If they were trying to show how businesses are unfairly exploiting poor minorities, they would highlight something less crass, as was the case back during the payday loans outrage ~5 years ago. Back before that there was Nickled and Dimed about how poor people supposedly couldn’t afford basics like food and medicine – headphones and flat screen TVs were never mentioned.

    There was a time when a supposed sob story about the urban poor renting fancy headphones for $1000 a year rather than buying them for $300 would have elicited a non-sympathetic reaction from much of the NY Times readership. Such an extreme example of conspicuous unnecessary consumption and gross personal financial negligence would have ruined the whole point. But now it doesn’t, because the view has become that certain classes of people are perpetual and solely victims of circumstance, with no ability to control their fates, bouncing haplessly from one oppression to another like a pinball in a machine.

    • Replies: @BigDickNick
    @Anonymous

    Progressivism is an unfalsifiable worldview so when information about blacks behaving irresponsibly becomes impossible to ignore it just gets absorbed by some post-hoc rationalization. It's the geocentric theory of race.

  77. There’s a racket in the US, when it comes to used cars. The prices are simply higher than in many other countries. A lot of it has to do with how Kelley Blue Book and other organizations are owned by the dealers. The result is that individuals selling their cars want the Kelley price, which is higher than the normal market value. In part because it includes financing.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @songbird

    The car market is so big that the prices that people actually pay (which is not necessarily what KBB says) more or less reflects their actual market value.

    Values are higher in the US than some other countries mainly because other countries have very rigorous mandatory inspection programs and if anything is the slightest bit wrong - any looseness in the suspension bushings, any rust, etc. you have to fix it. So the price of any used car is its market value MINUS the cost of mandatory repairs . US mandatory state inspection (if any - it varies by state) is very cursory, so used cars are more valuable.

  78. One of the biggest deals I did in my career was with a chain of rent-to-own stores. My firm purchased a portfolio of revolving debt owed by rent-to-own stores that was backed up by their customers payment stream.

    These stores are like many of the things we find aggravating about our economy and government. They start small, usually an entrepreneurial venture, with the owner feeling proud of offering credit to members of his community that would not otherwise be able to acquire the items offered. In rural areas it tilts to washers and dryers, more so than big screen tv’s. One of my store owners even financed a tractor for a client. At some point someone decides this is a growth opportunity. Marketers are hired. Operations are systematized. Groups of stores are acquired. A story is told to Wall Street and a public company is formed. This is how Rent-A-Center came to be.

    The abuse doesn’t start until ownership becomes removed from the community.

    The guys (always guys) in the rent-to-own stores start gaming the comp plan. Just like the gals at Wells Fargo.

  79. @Mr McKenna
    @prosa123


    It all happened during a severe recession, when prices of older used cars always rise due to high demand.
     
    During a severe recession, even (and especially) poor people stop buying nearly everything. The only goods & services which retain pricing power are food and emergency medical procedures.

    Replies: @Mike1, @The Alarmist

    Not accurate. Poor people buy used cars for cash during recessions. They can’t get loans.

  80. I find smug white people that end up paying a million dollars or more for a $500k house (which would cost $150k if finance did not exist) hilarious. The same person gets the vapors over someone charging 21% on a car to someone that rarely pays any bill on time, can and often does go to elaborate efforts to hide the asset when they don’t pay and rarely pays the insurance so the full asset value is frequently one drunken night away from destruction. This same lender has to spend their days dealing with used car lenders that spend half their waking hours thinking up inventive ways to collude with their customers to scam the lender.
    I have seen many people try to enter this business and fail calamitously.

    • Agree: JMcG
  81. @Blackety Black
    @Rob McX


    What sort of Civic sells for $18,000 when it’s 10 years old?
     
    The kind an underemployed black man with shit credit can’t afford, and can’t make much of a down payment, so signs a 72 month contract with a usurious level of interest tacked on, bringing the grand total of the piece of shit civic to 18K that he will end up paying if he doesn’t default on the loan during that time, doesn’t need a major repair, and one of his shitty cousins doesn’t crash it.

    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans. Cap it, and let the market figure out what to do. Interest above 15% for anything should be outlawed. Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so, while blacks would find it a little more difficult to ruin their financial lives! Everybody wins!

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Jack D

    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans.

    The only effect of this would be to make it impossible for the highest risk borrowers to get any credit at all.

    Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so,

    Times have changed since 16th century Venice. Christians can now engage in usury also. Today’s Shylocks are rarely Jewish. It would be nice if you could draft laws that only affected evil Jews but the reality is that you end up hitting your own people with “friendly fire”.

    • Replies: @rufus
    @Jack D

    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.

    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses, but rigorous enforcement. Possible some will hit like micro lending did in the third world with women. Close the rest.


    Here is a great example of dredging the slums of asia importing them to the US to exploit lower income Americans with usurious loans.

    No healthy nation would ever permit much less encourage this parasite.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2018/11/01/al-goldstein-from-child-refugee-to-billion-dollar-avant/#fc30d5f5e452

    Replies: @Jack D, @Twinkie, @Anonymous

    , @Blackety Black
    @Jack D


    The only effect of this would be to make it impossible for the highest risk borrowers to get any credit at all.
     
    You’re begging the question of why buying something you can’t afford should be a civil right.

    Times have changed since 16th century Venice. Christians can now engage in usury also. Today’s Shylocks are rarely Jewish.
     
    Appaently you’ve never lived in NYC, or any of the five boroughs. Shylock is alive, and overrepresented in those areas alone. Some of the Jewish property speculator there are well qualified sociopaths, with nary a Jew to denounce them, nor a prosecutor willing to send them to prison for a long time.

    While Christians can and do commit fraud, usury, etc, Jews are sadly overrepresented in those sports, compared to Christians, and you know it, as well as sexual misconduct in the workplace , as we’ve seen.
  82. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Autos are a depreciating asset and the entire US auto industry is based on "rent to own" and always has been. Even rich people lease their cars nowadays. If you had to have the full purchase price before you could buy a car, they wouldn't sell many cars. I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.


    The difference is that the poor pay higher rates to reflect their high likelihood of default. At the bottom end of the market nowadays, they install remote cutoff devices and your car won't run until you make your payment.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Twinkie, @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar

    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)

    Same here.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    This is the paradox. OTOH, what we do is the reasonable and prudent thing to do. OTOH, if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed. Our entire economy depends on consumers buying stupid unnecessary shit on credit. If you take that way it all goes to hell.

    Replies: @BigDickNick, @Twinkie

  83. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)
     
    Me too, but I don't buy them new. My last car got me a $200 trade-in allowance, and I was informed that it would soon be starting a new life as a taxi in Africa.

    Replies: @rufus, @Jack D

    $200 is low. You should have been able to get more on Craigslist. I think I got $600 for my last Audi with a blown engine. Some African guy (living in the US) was going to make 1 car out of 2.

    I usually buy demos at the end of the model year. These might have 1,000 miles on them but carry new car warranties. Sometimes the manufacturers chip in to enable the dealer to clear these out. The dealer markup on new cars is not that big (although they get “holdback” which means that they pay less than “invoice”) but the manufacturer can put many thousands on the hood if they want.

    • Replies: @Dtbb
    @Jack D

    I buy em for around $500, drive em til they die, and get $300 or $400 from the junkyard. Just have to pay for towing. Newest car I have ever owned is '96. I drive a '94 currently. I love the people who go to a buy here pay here and then will drive miles to save 4 cents on a gallon of gas. They never listen to logic.

  84. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)
     
    Same here.

    Replies: @Jack D

    This is the paradox. OTOH, what we do is the reasonable and prudent thing to do. OTOH, if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed. Our entire economy depends on consumers buying stupid unnecessary shit on credit. If you take that way it all goes to hell.

    • Replies: @BigDickNick
    @Jack D

    but if consumers weren't buying stupid stuff all the time they wouldn't need to make as much money.

    , @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    what we do
     
    In my "defense," though, I do buy more cars than most. I have a big family and we have a mini-fleet. But, yes, I buy with cash and keep almost all the cars until they are not worth fixing (which is, as you probably found too, around 15 years).

    Also, I don't haggle. I just email a few local dealers' internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other. They know who I am now, and I usually get pretty good prices (better than any buying service). USAA's buying service guy told my wife that the quotes I received were much better than what he gets (she called once to challenge me - she lost). I settle on the price, again by email. Then I have the bank print a check and pick up the car. I spend very little time the whole process and don't have to step into the dealership to listen to bullshit.

    if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed
     
    Disagree. If all or most consumers did this, yes, there might be a one-time hit to the economy, but then things would normalize and the newly prudent consumers would now have more money to invest and consume other things.

    Replies: @Jack D, @prosa123

  85. @Jack D
    @Blackety Black


    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans.
     
    The only effect of this would be to make it impossible for the highest risk borrowers to get any credit at all.

    Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so,
     
    Times have changed since 16th century Venice. Christians can now engage in usury also. Today's Shylocks are rarely Jewish. It would be nice if you could draft laws that only affected evil Jews but the reality is that you end up hitting your own people with "friendly fire".

    Replies: @rufus, @Blackety Black

    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.

    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses, but rigorous enforcement. Possible some will hit like micro lending did in the third world with women. Close the rest.

    Here is a great example of dredging the slums of asia importing them to the US to exploit lower income Americans with usurious loans.

    No healthy nation would ever permit much less encourage this parasite.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2018/11/01/al-goldstein-from-child-refugee-to-billion-dollar-avant/#fc30d5f5e452

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @rufus


    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses
     

    Experience large losses and fold when all of the money is gone.

    The only people who can lend to blacks and not go broke at it are sharks like Goldstein. The Gates non-profit would hire nice white ladies who would fall for the ghetto folks hard luck stories (the one thing never in short supply in the ghetto is bad luck) and they would never collect anything. Lending money to black is easy. Getting them to pay it back is hard, very hard. Your best bet is to charge them a lot up front because the chances that they will pay it back all the way to the end are small, as are your chances of recovering any value from the collateral or collecting on a judgment. When people say that the interest rate on a loan to blacks is x% (some high number) this assumes that the borrower will actually pay it back. The actually IRR on these loans is much, much lower and negative if you are not ruthless.

    That's nice of you to think up ways for Gates and Powell to spend their money. You should be a Democrat - their specialty is thinking of ways to spend other people's money in order to "do good".

    Replies: @rufus, @AndrewR

    , @Twinkie
    @rufus


    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.
     
    Indeed. I don't have a high regard for blacks in general and would like to live apart from large groups of them, but they are my fellow citizens too. As such our fate is tied to theirs. I think it behooves the rest of us to teach or help to set up a system to help our lower IQ brethren (blacks and non-blacks alike) to make better choices in life. It's just that I don't want the government to do it (which always turns into an ineffectual entitlement) - I want some sort of a non-profit foundation run by people of proven leadership who want to do good.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jack D

    , @Anonymous
    @rufus

    Jim Crow banking.

  86. @Jonathan Mason
    There certainly do seem to be a number of businesses that have a predatory business model and offer inferior merchandise at high prices via credit.

    For example, even leaving aside the obvious case of payday lenders, there is a furniture store chain called Badc*ck in my area, and perhaps in yours that advertises credit available to all, but as I have pointed out to others, if that is the case, then the mark up on the furniture must be very high to offer credit and deal with creditors who default.

    And in fact my chief objection, being someone who knows a bit about furniture as a result of having spent my entire teens in auction houses, is that the furniture they sell is utter crap.

    Same goes for used car dealers, where the aim is more to sell a financing deal than a car that meets the needs of the consumer, and a great deal of input goes into polishing the outside of the vehicle to sell it for a high price, rather than fixing any mechanical faults or maintenance issues.

    Car repair shops will sometimes try to charge you an exorbitant fee for "diagnosis" even when you tell them exactly what the problem is. When I bought a new remote control key for my Honda, I was charged $80 for the key, which seemed fair enough and was the price I was quoted on the phone, plus an additional $110 for "labour" for programing the key, which took about 10 minutes and might have been included in the price of the key. These kind of practices may not be deliberately targeted at minorities, being somewhat standard in the US, but minorities and immigrants may identify them as discriminatory.

    Are they white-owned and the customers primarily minorities who lack financial sophistication. I think this is often, but not always the case.

    Personally, although I am white, I am very cautious about doing business with white Americans abd corporations and often favor Asian, Hispanic or black sellers

    Replies: @Jack D

    If you still have 1 working key it is usually possible to program additional keys yourself, depend on the brand. There is usually some trick sequence of steps – turn the key to the on position, press a button on the remote, spin around and click your heels 3 times, etc. Google is your friend.

    Your best bet in mechanics is usually some cranky old white guy. Avoid the dealers like the plague. I have a guy who allows me to bring him parts (which you can usually source on the internet much cheaper than from the dealer or even the local auto parts st0re) and he charges me for labor only. I pay him cash and it’s always some (low) round $ – $100 or $200. There’s no way you can keep a car for 15 years if you keep taking back to the dealer – the cost will kill you. Auto mechanics are like waiters in Jewish delis – unless they are old and cranky you are not getting the full experience.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Jack D

    Jack- I agree with you 90+% of the time. You are grinding your mechanic for no reason. You are a lawyer for God’s sake. Buy the parts from him. Cut the guy a break. It’s the right thing to do.

    Replies: @Jack D

  87. “Is Black Anti-Whiteism Acceptable in This Situation?”

    It is de rigueur in any situation, but the system of Ponzi Debt Servitude we have inflicted on ourselves in general is particularly hard on minorities. Whites might escape at the level of buying cars and washing machines, but they are sucked in with a vengeance when buying houses, particularly to get into a “good” school system, and totally raped when sending Johnny and Jane off to university.

  88. @Mr McKenna
    @prosa123


    It all happened during a severe recession, when prices of older used cars always rise due to high demand.
     
    During a severe recession, even (and especially) poor people stop buying nearly everything. The only goods & services which retain pricing power are food and emergency medical procedures.

    Replies: @Mike1, @The Alarmist

    “During a severe recession, even (and especially) poor people stop buying nearly everything. The only goods & services which retain pricing power are food and emergency medical procedures.”

    And Alcohol.

  89. @Anon
    @J.Ross


    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!
     
    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    ... for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.
     
    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn't live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial "black hole" members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer's financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. "Sorry mom, these guys won't let me get at my money, and I need the job."

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @Mr McKenna, @Barnard, @Diversity Heretic, @anon, @EdwardM

    We had a system just like that in the South and it worked pretty well for blacks. It was called share-cropping.

  90. @songbird
    There's a racket in the US, when it comes to used cars. The prices are simply higher than in many other countries. A lot of it has to do with how Kelley Blue Book and other organizations are owned by the dealers. The result is that individuals selling their cars want the Kelley price, which is higher than the normal market value. In part because it includes financing.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The car market is so big that the prices that people actually pay (which is not necessarily what KBB says) more or less reflects their actual market value.

    Values are higher in the US than some other countries mainly because other countries have very rigorous mandatory inspection programs and if anything is the slightest bit wrong – any looseness in the suspension bushings, any rust, etc. you have to fix it. So the price of any used car is its market value MINUS the cost of mandatory repairs . US mandatory state inspection (if any – it varies by state) is very cursory, so used cars are more valuable.

  91. @rufus
    @Jack D

    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.

    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses, but rigorous enforcement. Possible some will hit like micro lending did in the third world with women. Close the rest.


    Here is a great example of dredging the slums of asia importing them to the US to exploit lower income Americans with usurious loans.

    No healthy nation would ever permit much less encourage this parasite.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2018/11/01/al-goldstein-from-child-refugee-to-billion-dollar-avant/#fc30d5f5e452

    Replies: @Jack D, @Twinkie, @Anonymous

    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses

    Experience large losses and fold when all of the money is gone.

    The only people who can lend to blacks and not go broke at it are sharks like Goldstein. The Gates non-profit would hire nice white ladies who would fall for the ghetto folks hard luck stories (the one thing never in short supply in the ghetto is bad luck) and they would never collect anything. Lending money to black is easy. Getting them to pay it back is hard, very hard. Your best bet is to charge them a lot up front because the chances that they will pay it back all the way to the end are small, as are your chances of recovering any value from the collateral or collecting on a judgment. When people say that the interest rate on a loan to blacks is x% (some high number) this assumes that the borrower will actually pay it back. The actually IRR on these loans is much, much lower and negative if you are not ruthless.

    That’s nice of you to think up ways for Gates and Powell to spend their money. You should be a Democrat – their specialty is thinking of ways to spend other people’s money in order to “do good”.

    • Replies: @rufus
    @Jack D

    Their whole foundations are people thinking of ways to spend their monies. Warren buffet gives approximately 4 billion a year to the gates foundation. Loan sharking is a crime. This is something people of all backgrounds would support. Perhaps it would be slightly profitable. Its a variant of how groups like Koreans pool funds for mortgages, fruit stands etc. I support working class people unashamedly.

    , @AndrewR
    @Jack D

    Not sure what the hostility is for. He didn't call for the government to take all of Gates' wealth (although that would hardly be very tragic). We already know Gates is a philanthropist. Instead of spending his billions on foreigners, he could spend it on Americans. As long as blacks live in the same country as us, we have the responsibility as the wiser group to help them mitigate the effects of their collective genetic handicaps, like poor impulse control. Bajillionaires like Gates have much more responsibility still.

  92. blacks are way more likely to own luxury cars than whites. Just another way the white man’s tricknology of letting people make major decisions for themselves is a conspiracy against black people.

    Soon we will learn that white people are more likely to own power tools and do DIY projects or to have gardens and do canning and preserving of foods. It’s all an enormous conspiracy to make black people seem slightly less conscientious on average.

    • Replies: @J1234
    @BigDickNick


    In it, the author outlined the various debt schemes retailers use to target black neighborhoods
     
    I see my white neighborhood as "served" by retail establishments, but blacks are apparently "targeted." Can the gap between the black and white mindset ever be bridged?

    blacks are way more likely to own luxury cars than whites. Just another way the white man’s tricknology of letting people make major decisions for themselves is a conspiracy against black people.

     

    I used to look for old guitars and vintage guns at pawnshops, and the shop that left the most lasting impression on me was one run by a long-haired hippy looking Jewish guy in his late 30's. He had a local chain of shops, and was hyper-tolerant of dumb or belligerent blacks who would come in to pawn stuff. I was always amazed by the convincing air of empathy he was able to project to his customers as he would give them a few cents on the dollar. But I guess I see this in a different light than Steve apparently does. I see life as one great big IQ test (the only one that matters, in fact, as it's the only IQ test that you can actually fail.) Giving - or selling - people enough rope to hang themselves is part of what living in a free and open society is about.
    , @Jack D
    @BigDickNick


    to have gardens and do canning and preserving of foods
     
    Back when blacks lived in the rural South and didn't receive food stamps, it was very common for them to do this. The welfare system has been very destructive to black's conscientiousness. They might have had a genetic tendency toward being less conscientious but the incentives of the welfare system reinforced those tendencies and make the problem much worse.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  93. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    This is the paradox. OTOH, what we do is the reasonable and prudent thing to do. OTOH, if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed. Our entire economy depends on consumers buying stupid unnecessary shit on credit. If you take that way it all goes to hell.

    Replies: @BigDickNick, @Twinkie

    but if consumers weren’t buying stupid stuff all the time they wouldn’t need to make as much money.

  94. @Jim Don Bob
    @dvorak


    (To the author’s point, most retail stores sell debt as their primary product).
     
    Right. That and $4 warranties on a $35 product.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Right. That and $4 warranties on a $35 product.

    The warranties are an incredible scam. I recently saw somebody in the check-out line ahead of me at a low-end department store buy a warranty on an electric pancake grill.

    Do black people buy those useless warranties too? My impression is that they are more of a white thing.

    • Replies: @Corn
    @Mr. Anon

    Adam Carolla had a riff on warranties years ago:

    “Yes sir, this a great stereo. Water proof, surge proof, radiation proof, this thing will keep blasting tunes after a nuclear war. Would you like to buy the warranty?”

    “No thanks”

    “Sir, you need to buy the warranty. This thing could explode on the drive home.”

  95. istevefan says:
    @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Autos are a depreciating asset and the entire US auto industry is based on "rent to own" and always has been. Even rich people lease their cars nowadays. If you had to have the full purchase price before you could buy a car, they wouldn't sell many cars. I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.


    The difference is that the poor pay higher rates to reflect their high likelihood of default. At the bottom end of the market nowadays, they install remote cutoff devices and your car won't run until you make your payment.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Twinkie, @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar

    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.

    I don’t know what the actual figure is, but let’s say the average time between buying a new/used vehicle for an American is about 4 years. So every 4 years the average American replaces their car. If you were to increase that interval to 5 years, you would probably cause a recession. If you were to increase it to 6 years, you would probably cause a depression.

    I too keep my cars for a long time. If you and I represented the typical American, we’d crater the car industry. Like the rest of our economy, the car industry is built upon waste. It requires frequent disposal to survive.

  96. @Anonymous
    I have noticed that lately elite white liberals are really going down the road of believing, really crossing the Rubicon of believing, that black and brown folks, muslims, and even women in many cases simply don't have human agency.

    Example here: I don't think ten years ago the NY Times would have included the part about the "Beats by Dre" Headphones in this op-ed. If they were trying to show how businesses are unfairly exploiting poor minorities, they would highlight something less crass, as was the case back during the payday loans outrage ~5 years ago. Back before that there was Nickled and Dimed about how poor people supposedly couldn't afford basics like food and medicine - headphones and flat screen TVs were never mentioned.

    There was a time when a supposed sob story about the urban poor renting fancy headphones for $1000 a year rather than buying them for $300 would have elicited a non-sympathetic reaction from much of the NY Times readership. Such an extreme example of conspicuous unnecessary consumption and gross personal financial negligence would have ruined the whole point. But now it doesn't, because the view has become that certain classes of people are perpetual and solely victims of circumstance, with no ability to control their fates, bouncing haplessly from one oppression to another like a pinball in a machine.

    Replies: @BigDickNick

    Progressivism is an unfalsifiable worldview so when information about blacks behaving irresponsibly becomes impossible to ignore it just gets absorbed by some post-hoc rationalization. It’s the geocentric theory of race.

  97. @Jack D
    @rufus


    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses
     

    Experience large losses and fold when all of the money is gone.

    The only people who can lend to blacks and not go broke at it are sharks like Goldstein. The Gates non-profit would hire nice white ladies who would fall for the ghetto folks hard luck stories (the one thing never in short supply in the ghetto is bad luck) and they would never collect anything. Lending money to black is easy. Getting them to pay it back is hard, very hard. Your best bet is to charge them a lot up front because the chances that they will pay it back all the way to the end are small, as are your chances of recovering any value from the collateral or collecting on a judgment. When people say that the interest rate on a loan to blacks is x% (some high number) this assumes that the borrower will actually pay it back. The actually IRR on these loans is much, much lower and negative if you are not ruthless.

    That's nice of you to think up ways for Gates and Powell to spend their money. You should be a Democrat - their specialty is thinking of ways to spend other people's money in order to "do good".

    Replies: @rufus, @AndrewR

    Their whole foundations are people thinking of ways to spend their monies. Warren buffet gives approximately 4 billion a year to the gates foundation. Loan sharking is a crime. This is something people of all backgrounds would support. Perhaps it would be slightly profitable. Its a variant of how groups like Koreans pool funds for mortgages, fruit stands etc. I support working class people unashamedly.

  98. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    This is the paradox. OTOH, what we do is the reasonable and prudent thing to do. OTOH, if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed. Our entire economy depends on consumers buying stupid unnecessary shit on credit. If you take that way it all goes to hell.

    Replies: @BigDickNick, @Twinkie

    what we do

    In my “defense,” though, I do buy more cars than most. I have a big family and we have a mini-fleet. But, yes, I buy with cash and keep almost all the cars until they are not worth fixing (which is, as you probably found too, around 15 years).

    Also, I don’t haggle. I just email a few local dealers’ internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other. They know who I am now, and I usually get pretty good prices (better than any buying service). USAA’s buying service guy told my wife that the quotes I received were much better than what he gets (she called once to challenge me – she lost). I settle on the price, again by email. Then I have the bank print a check and pick up the car. I spend very little time the whole process and don’t have to step into the dealership to listen to bullshit.

    if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed

    Disagree. If all or most consumers did this, yes, there might be a one-time hit to the economy, but then things would normalize and the newly prudent consumers would now have more money to invest and consume other things.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    The buying services are better than nothing if you are a person with average or below bargaining skills and/or don't want to invest any time into negotiation but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.

    Even once you have set a price and told them you are buying for cash*, they usually make you enduring the "finance and insurance manager". They will try to sell you all sorts of optional nonsense at inflated prices - key insurance, tire insurance, extended warranties, etc. Just say no to whatever it is. They will keep dropping the price (because it is hugely inflated) but just keep saying no to the bitter end - even the lower price is STILL overpriced. If you really want an extended warranty you can buy it later elsewhere for less.

    * Sometimes the finance arm of a mfr will offer incentives (such as an additional rebate) so that it actually pays to finance. You can take the financing in order to get the rebate and then pay off the loan at the time of the 1st payment.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @prosa123
    @Twinkie

    "Also, I don’t haggle. I just email a few local dealers’ internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other."

    I am very surprised that works at all. I've read a number of car buying articles on Jalopnik, and the consensus seems to be that dealers generally will not provide online price quotes. All they'll say is that the potential buyers have to come into the dealerships and discuss prices in person.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @Bragadocious, @JMcG

  99. @rufus
    @Jack D

    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.

    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses, but rigorous enforcement. Possible some will hit like micro lending did in the third world with women. Close the rest.


    Here is a great example of dredging the slums of asia importing them to the US to exploit lower income Americans with usurious loans.

    No healthy nation would ever permit much less encourage this parasite.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2018/11/01/al-goldstein-from-child-refugee-to-billion-dollar-avant/#fc30d5f5e452

    Replies: @Jack D, @Twinkie, @Anonymous

    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.

    Indeed. I don’t have a high regard for blacks in general and would like to live apart from large groups of them, but they are my fellow citizens too. As such our fate is tied to theirs. I think it behooves the rest of us to teach or help to set up a system to help our lower IQ brethren (blacks and non-blacks alike) to make better choices in life. It’s just that I don’t want the government to do it (which always turns into an ineffectual entitlement) – I want some sort of a non-profit foundation run by people of proven leadership who want to do good.

    • Disagree: iffen
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Twinkie

    Law cannot exist except as the most cynical lawyer joke with a diversity spread that wide. The only blacks who should be allowed to stay are those self-selected for conformity -- criminals and the unassimilated announce themselves clearly, and instead of prison-welfare, should receive physical removal. That sounds awful, but by normal liberal lights they have no place at all in the highly automated and credentialled leftist's future (let alone a future where rights and laws matter), and the skills that they do have are in some demand on the continent of their ancestors, where they will not have to compete with Central Americans.

    , @Jack D
    @Twinkie


    I want some sort of a non-profit foundation run by people of proven leadership who want to do good.
     
    Having a good heart and a strong leader at the top is not enough. "Improving" the black poor is a Sisyphean task and rarely succeeds. Even if the leadership at the very top is strong, by the time you reach the field it drops off fast. In the worst case you get race hustlers and in the best case you get idealistic but inexperienced young liberals who either burn out or quickly become cynical. Dealing with ghetto blacks is enough to make a saint cynical.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  100. @BigDickNick
    blacks are way more likely to own luxury cars than whites. Just another way the white man's tricknology of letting people make major decisions for themselves is a conspiracy against black people.

    Soon we will learn that white people are more likely to own power tools and do DIY projects or to have gardens and do canning and preserving of foods. It's all an enormous conspiracy to make black people seem slightly less conscientious on average.

    Replies: @J1234, @Jack D

    In it, the author outlined the various debt schemes retailers use to target black neighborhoods

    I see my white neighborhood as “served” by retail establishments, but blacks are apparently “targeted.” Can the gap between the black and white mindset ever be bridged?

    blacks are way more likely to own luxury cars than whites. Just another way the white man’s tricknology of letting people make major decisions for themselves is a conspiracy against black people.

    I used to look for old guitars and vintage guns at pawnshops, and the shop that left the most lasting impression on me was one run by a long-haired hippy looking Jewish guy in his late 30’s. He had a local chain of shops, and was hyper-tolerant of dumb or belligerent blacks who would come in to pawn stuff. I was always amazed by the convincing air of empathy he was able to project to his customers as he would give them a few cents on the dollar. But I guess I see this in a different light than Steve apparently does. I see life as one great big IQ test (the only one that matters, in fact, as it’s the only IQ test that you can actually fail.) Giving – or selling – people enough rope to hang themselves is part of what living in a free and open society is about.

  101. @Twinkie

    And that explains a lot about the motivations behind the businesses in the immigration lobby: more uneducated, innumerate, insecure Mexicans are more fresh meat for their salesmen. They can’t rip off educated white people who subscribe to Consumer Reporters and use the Zag system reserved for CR subscribers, so they want to bring in millions of new people they can outsmart and cheat.
     
    But, doesn’t the immigration lobby also bring in millions of Asians who are the opposites of Mexicans in this regard? They tend to squeeze out the most product for the buck (or pay the lowest price possible). Maybe businesses just want more people/customers, dumb or otherwise, period.

    Replies: @Rufus, @J.Ross

    doesn’t the immigration lobby also bring in millions of Asians who are the opposites of Mexicans in this regard

    A certain amount of failure cannot refute clear intent. I don’t know. I was under the impression that smart Asians largely came on their own or with family help to get a good college degree, or start a business with less hassle than possible at home. They’re self-motivated kulaks, not conveyor belted peasants.
    That said, somebody’s buying all that royal jelly.

  102. @BigDickNick
    blacks are way more likely to own luxury cars than whites. Just another way the white man's tricknology of letting people make major decisions for themselves is a conspiracy against black people.

    Soon we will learn that white people are more likely to own power tools and do DIY projects or to have gardens and do canning and preserving of foods. It's all an enormous conspiracy to make black people seem slightly less conscientious on average.

    Replies: @J1234, @Jack D

    to have gardens and do canning and preserving of foods

    Back when blacks lived in the rural South and didn’t receive food stamps, it was very common for them to do this. The welfare system has been very destructive to black’s conscientiousness. They might have had a genetic tendency toward being less conscientious but the incentives of the welfare system reinforced those tendencies and make the problem much worse.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    There's an argument that a major way the slave-holders "broke" the potential for resistence was to teach the blacks to hate work itself, and that this was tried in the Caribbean but failed due to much less whites to enforce it. Thus people on the islands were able to keep alive a certain work ethic on little private gardens, and so we have the Jamaican working three jobs. If this is true,* then it's an example of welfare recreating slavery.
    *It is claimed that this is not true because of mainland slave gardens (which, the refuters concede, enjoyed the master's sanction). However, American slavery was not a uniform totalitarianism, and it remains possible that this was the plan in many places.

  103. @Twinkie
    @rufus


    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.
     
    Indeed. I don't have a high regard for blacks in general and would like to live apart from large groups of them, but they are my fellow citizens too. As such our fate is tied to theirs. I think it behooves the rest of us to teach or help to set up a system to help our lower IQ brethren (blacks and non-blacks alike) to make better choices in life. It's just that I don't want the government to do it (which always turns into an ineffectual entitlement) - I want some sort of a non-profit foundation run by people of proven leadership who want to do good.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jack D

    Law cannot exist except as the most cynical lawyer joke with a diversity spread that wide. The only blacks who should be allowed to stay are those self-selected for conformity — criminals and the unassimilated announce themselves clearly, and instead of prison-welfare, should receive physical removal. That sounds awful, but by normal liberal lights they have no place at all in the highly automated and credentialled leftist’s future (let alone a future where rights and laws matter), and the skills that they do have are in some demand on the continent of their ancestors, where they will not have to compete with Central Americans.

  104. @Anonym
    @Viral Architect

    Lol yes. It is up to ask to ask, in our own publications. But will we be permitted to have them outside of cyberspace? Or will they (((Shut it down!))) That is a good question. It is a kind of asymmetrical war being waged on us. Which way would they have us respond? What would our own version of )))Shut it down!((( look like if we were to play it? At least we are allowed to play on unz.com and I am grateful for that.

    Nice play on words with your handle btw.

    https://youtu.be/lkx7SQ4Wuh0

    Sorcerers of madness, selling me their time...

    Replies: @Known Fact

    You work your life away and what do they give?
    You’re only killing yourself to live
    Killing yourself to live

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Known Fact

    Best Sabbath album IMO, at least with Ozzy. Heaven and Hell would be a contender for best metal song of all time.

    As far as other songs on that album, National Acrobat, Sabra Cadabra, Spiral Architect and strangely, Fluff are my favorites. I know the latter is their commentary on insipid mainstream "fluff" of the time, but hey, I like it.

  105. … My junior year, I read Manning Marable’s “How Capitalism Underdeveloped Black America.”

    Marable was indubitably recyling fragments of a research program in economic sociology called ‘dependency theory’, a program which was running out of gas as he was publishing his book. “The Development of Underdevelopment” was a half-baked concept and didn’t leave a trail in production statistics outside of countries whose export mix contained a critical mass of income from oil and minerals. It was certainly nonsense in domestic circumstances.

    It’s fashionable among the black chatterati to make a great deal of phenomena like redlining or hard-sell tactics without ever attempting to enumerate the actual effect on the real incomes of blacks vis a vis the remainder of the population of these phenomena then or now. That in turn distracts them and anyone listening to them from looking at actually remediable phenomena that are injuring blacks in real time. Remediation would require rejiggering the incentive structure in political economy and require more rigorous social discipline be imposed on the lumpenproletarian element. That would require acknowledging that bad blacks are the source of much of what distorts and disfigures the lives ordinary blacks, require incorporating the assumption that blacks-qua-blacks do not merit any particular deference from the larger society, require incorporating the assumption that the culture of the present time often does not work to your advantage, and require acknowledging that what the larger society might remediate is not something for which the larger society is at fault. All of that is anathema to people with the megaphone.

    For the moderator, the subject is an occasion to shoot darts at landlords and pawn brokers who’ve been out of business for 50 years or more. No surprise there.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    For the moderator, the subject is an occasion to shoot darts at landlords and pawn brokers who’ve been out of business for 50 years or more. No surprise there.
     
    Bingo. I mention this in another comment. Most Jews (thank God) left the slumlord/pawn broker business a generation or two ago - their kids are orthodontists or bankers and never set foot in the ghetto if they can help it. Nowadays your slum landlord is an Albanian or something, but you can't really shoot at them so you pretend that it's still 1956 and the Joos are overcharging you.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  106. @Jack D
    @BigDickNick


    to have gardens and do canning and preserving of foods
     
    Back when blacks lived in the rural South and didn't receive food stamps, it was very common for them to do this. The welfare system has been very destructive to black's conscientiousness. They might have had a genetic tendency toward being less conscientious but the incentives of the welfare system reinforced those tendencies and make the problem much worse.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    There’s an argument that a major way the slave-holders “broke” the potential for resistence was to teach the blacks to hate work itself, and that this was tried in the Caribbean but failed due to much less whites to enforce it. Thus people on the islands were able to keep alive a certain work ethic on little private gardens, and so we have the Jamaican working three jobs. If this is true,* then it’s an example of welfare recreating slavery.
    *It is claimed that this is not true because of mainland slave gardens (which, the refuters concede, enjoyed the master’s sanction). However, American slavery was not a uniform totalitarianism, and it remains possible that this was the plan in many places.

  107. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    what we do
     
    In my "defense," though, I do buy more cars than most. I have a big family and we have a mini-fleet. But, yes, I buy with cash and keep almost all the cars until they are not worth fixing (which is, as you probably found too, around 15 years).

    Also, I don't haggle. I just email a few local dealers' internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other. They know who I am now, and I usually get pretty good prices (better than any buying service). USAA's buying service guy told my wife that the quotes I received were much better than what he gets (she called once to challenge me - she lost). I settle on the price, again by email. Then I have the bank print a check and pick up the car. I spend very little time the whole process and don't have to step into the dealership to listen to bullshit.

    if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed
     
    Disagree. If all or most consumers did this, yes, there might be a one-time hit to the economy, but then things would normalize and the newly prudent consumers would now have more money to invest and consume other things.

    Replies: @Jack D, @prosa123

    The buying services are better than nothing if you are a person with average or below bargaining skills and/or don’t want to invest any time into negotiation but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.

    Even once you have set a price and told them you are buying for cash*, they usually make you enduring the “finance and insurance manager”. They will try to sell you all sorts of optional nonsense at inflated prices – key insurance, tire insurance, extended warranties, etc. Just say no to whatever it is. They will keep dropping the price (because it is hugely inflated) but just keep saying no to the bitter end – even the lower price is STILL overpriced. If you really want an extended warranty you can buy it later elsewhere for less.

    * Sometimes the finance arm of a mfr will offer incentives (such as an additional rebate) so that it actually pays to finance. You can take the financing in order to get the rebate and then pay off the loan at the time of the 1st payment.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.
     
    I don't come from such people (my ancestors were warriors and scholars), but even I - with some research - was able to buy a luxury used car once at lower price than what the dealership paid. It sold at a loss to me, because the car had been sitting there for months and was about to be wholesaled or auctioned. It just took a smaller loss by selling to me. The salesman changed his mind the next day (I think someone else called about the car the evening before) and tried to renege on the sale, but I confronted the manager and after a lengthy discussion he agreed that I had the right to buy at the price since I signed a contract and left a deposit (until I brought the check). The salesman threw the keys at me and told me to never come back. I overheard the manager fighting with the salesman ("You shouldn't have made that deal, we still had a few more days with that car, but you did and now we have to sell it to that guy").

    I "won," so to speak, but it was a pretty unpleasant experience overall, and I don't want to repeat it. Now that I am much older and have the means, it's better that I let the dealership make a bit of money and not waste my time and is pleasant to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @JMcG

  108. @Buzz Mohawk
    @International Jew

    Hasn't Steve been reading everything in the NYT every day approximately forever? You would think if it had been in there he would have seen it. Some times you gotta believe the witness when he tells you he didn't see something.

    Your question is like asking a man who lives in Los Angeles to give you numbers when he tells you it never snows there.

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @International Jew

    Sorry, I didn’t mean the Times part. I meant the part about “Jews…disproportionately involved in the past in businesses in black slums that outsmarted black consumers”.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @International Jew

    I don't have the stats either but anecdotally Jews were a middle man minority that often had businesses in the ghetto. This is mostly in the past now and these business are now run by more recent immigrants with middle man minority tendencies - Chinese, Arabs, S. Asians, etc. The blacks hate them just as much as they hated the Jews. The hatred comes with the territory of being a middle man minority and has nothing to do with Jews being especially rapacious or evil.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  109. @Anon
    @Counterinsurgency

    Well, that was a scam.

    I would foresee this as ideally a separate company (or a new industry with many different companies), regulated as a financial organanization with fiduciary responsibility, and not under the control of the companies whose payroll it handles. It would be a blend of financial counseling, investment management (in bonds, conservative securities, plain old savings accounts), insurance industry, and a bit of the streetwise ways of bail bondsmen and debt collectors (not in content, but in badassedness), cobbled together by lawyers using contract and trusts and estates law, or ideally by new legislation authorizing such compensation schemes, audited by the government.

    The goal would be to enforce good financial behavior on those who don't come by it naturally. In a Darwinian world, you can say that the weak-willed deserve what happens to them. But I can see people who know that they cannot manage money being interested in such a compensation scheme, and people who have manipulative families being eager to have an excuse to not give in to interfamilial pressure to give away their money.

    Replies: @bomag, @Counterinsurgency

    From what I know now, it probably wasn’t intended as a scam by the corporation. This was back in the days of Anglo Saxon management, but well after the Gilded Age, and the top managers mostly had a desire to be good stewards. Unfortunately, what they accomplished wasn’t what they tried for, and the whole thing was _treated_ as a scam by employees. As a direct result, they had immense trouble holding on to productive people. I had the impression, actually, that they’d quit trying and were conducting a play, a play entitled “caring management”.

    Now, back to your proposal.
    The last time this was tried on a wide basis was after the fall of the Roman Empire, I believe c.a. AD 900 during the Northman breakout , and it proved to be the dominant social form for quite some time. Basic idea was to have fortified redoubts that the Northmen could not take quickly, as they couldn’t carry heavy siege gear in longboats. While the Northmen were slowly taking the fort, heavy cavalry and supporting militia from neighboring strongholds would attack the Northmen. This also, of course, provided the local King with heavy cavalry and supporting militia. Like most military organizations, the manors were designed by geniuses for execution by idiots — everything was proscribed, just as it was in the Bronze Age middle eastern empires. The basic organization was, in theory, familial, the manor lord being in loco parentis to everybody in the manor except priests, representatives of the king, and so on. Duties were reciprocal, and modeled on that of parent to relatives. The system extended all the way to the king. In short, it was (in general feel) just like the system you propose, and it even (with the 3 field system) increased agricultural productivity. What I ran into back in the early 1970s was sometimes called “industrial feudalism”. As the manor system grew from the old Roman villa system (made much more humane), the industrial feudalism grew from the monopoly corporations of the Gilded Age, in which management and many clerical employees were treated as sort of family members by upper management, perhaps to ensure continuity, perhaps for religious reasons (I actually had a relative whose career was in that milieu).

    So what you suggested could work. There is another point, however. Such a system only works when the alternatives are all much worse materially, such as being raided by Vikings back c.a. AD 900, and only works when there is a system of punishments, culminating in an exile worse than death (such as being a middle age clerk blackballed during the Gilded Age), to encourage compliance.
    One needs a chaotic environment for a motivator, rather like Skinner boxes need a hungry animal for the training to take. Fortunately, the chaotic environment appears to be on the way.

    And why do I say the above? Well, the environment really doesn’t seem paradisaical to those within it, but sometimes its necessary for survival. If so, it should be implemented and administered as something necessary. If one depends on employees (or personnel) to be greatful, well, it’s sort of like trying for a family that depends on childrens’ gratitude and good sense to maintain obedience to parents. The system fails somewhere during the terrible twos. And your suggestion is too good a suggestion to fail because of something so trivial.

    Counterinsurgency

  110. @Twinkie
    @rufus


    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.
     
    Indeed. I don't have a high regard for blacks in general and would like to live apart from large groups of them, but they are my fellow citizens too. As such our fate is tied to theirs. I think it behooves the rest of us to teach or help to set up a system to help our lower IQ brethren (blacks and non-blacks alike) to make better choices in life. It's just that I don't want the government to do it (which always turns into an ineffectual entitlement) - I want some sort of a non-profit foundation run by people of proven leadership who want to do good.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Jack D

    I want some sort of a non-profit foundation run by people of proven leadership who want to do good.

    Having a good heart and a strong leader at the top is not enough. “Improving” the black poor is a Sisyphean task and rarely succeeds. Even if the leadership at the very top is strong, by the time you reach the field it drops off fast. In the worst case you get race hustlers and in the best case you get idealistic but inexperienced young liberals who either burn out or quickly become cynical. Dealing with ghetto blacks is enough to make a saint cynical.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    “Improving” the black poor is a Sisyphean task and rarely succeeds.
     
    No, you CAN improve blacks. You just can't make them "equal" (to whites, Asians, etc.). Efforts that fail are attempts at the latter.

    You can train animals to be better. You certainly can train (most) blacks who are fellow human beings (albeit of lower IQ on average).

    You noted above that the welfare system has been destructive to blacks. Reforming or even eliminating welfare would be salutary and would "improve" them, as it would lower IQ whites.
  111. @International Jew
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Sorry, I didn't mean the Times part. I meant the part about "Jews...disproportionately involved in the past in businesses in black slums that outsmarted black consumers".

    Replies: @Jack D

    I don’t have the stats either but anecdotally Jews were a middle man minority that often had businesses in the ghetto. This is mostly in the past now and these business are now run by more recent immigrants with middle man minority tendencies – Chinese, Arabs, S. Asians, etc. The blacks hate them just as much as they hated the Jews. The hatred comes with the territory of being a middle man minority and has nothing to do with Jews being especially rapacious or evil.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    The hatred comes with the territory of being a middle man minority and has nothing to do with Jews being especially rapacious or evil.
     
    Jews have been doing it a lot longer, much more extensively, and benefitted from it far better than "Chinese, Arabs, S. Asians, etc." have... There is no equivalent term to Hofjude ("Court Jew") in Asia.

    The closest any of them ever came to the Jews is probably the Diaspora Chinese merchants in Southeast Asia. But even they never gained the kind of non-economic influence (including ennoblement) that Jews gained in Europe and the Middle East.

    Replies: @Jack D

  112. @Art Deco
    … My junior year, I read Manning Marable’s “How Capitalism Underdeveloped Black America.”

    Marable was indubitably recyling fragments of a research program in economic sociology called 'dependency theory', a program which was running out of gas as he was publishing his book. "The Development of Underdevelopment" was a half-baked concept and didn't leave a trail in production statistics outside of countries whose export mix contained a critical mass of income from oil and minerals. It was certainly nonsense in domestic circumstances.

    It's fashionable among the black chatterati to make a great deal of phenomena like redlining or hard-sell tactics without ever attempting to enumerate the actual effect on the real incomes of blacks vis a vis the remainder of the population of these phenomena then or now. That in turn distracts them and anyone listening to them from looking at actually remediable phenomena that are injuring blacks in real time. Remediation would require rejiggering the incentive structure in political economy and require more rigorous social discipline be imposed on the lumpenproletarian element. That would require acknowledging that bad blacks are the source of much of what distorts and disfigures the lives ordinary blacks, require incorporating the assumption that blacks-qua-blacks do not merit any particular deference from the larger society, require incorporating the assumption that the culture of the present time often does not work to your advantage, and require acknowledging that what the larger society might remediate is not something for which the larger society is at fault. All of that is anathema to people with the megaphone.


    For the moderator, the subject is an occasion to shoot darts at landlords and pawn brokers who've been out of business for 50 years or more. No surprise there.

    Replies: @Jack D

    For the moderator, the subject is an occasion to shoot darts at landlords and pawn brokers who’ve been out of business for 50 years or more. No surprise there.

    Bingo. I mention this in another comment. Most Jews (thank God) left the slumlord/pawn broker business a generation or two ago – their kids are orthodontists or bankers and never set foot in the ghetto if they can help it. Nowadays your slum landlord is an Albanian or something, but you can’t really shoot at them so you pretend that it’s still 1956 and the Joos are overcharging you.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    their kids are orthodontists or bankers and never set foot in the ghetto if they can help it. Nowadays your slum landlord is an Albanian or something, but you can’t really shoot at them so you pretend that it’s still 1956 and the Joos are overcharging you.
     
    This is a kind of damning with praise.
  113. @Jack D
    @International Jew

    I don't have the stats either but anecdotally Jews were a middle man minority that often had businesses in the ghetto. This is mostly in the past now and these business are now run by more recent immigrants with middle man minority tendencies - Chinese, Arabs, S. Asians, etc. The blacks hate them just as much as they hated the Jews. The hatred comes with the territory of being a middle man minority and has nothing to do with Jews being especially rapacious or evil.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The hatred comes with the territory of being a middle man minority and has nothing to do with Jews being especially rapacious or evil.

    Jews have been doing it a lot longer, much more extensively, and benefitted from it far better than “Chinese, Arabs, S. Asians, etc.” have… There is no equivalent term to Hofjude (“Court Jew”) in Asia.

    The closest any of them ever came to the Jews is probably the Diaspora Chinese merchants in Southeast Asia. But even they never gained the kind of non-economic influence (including ennoblement) that Jews gained in Europe and the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews. The situation of a typical Jew in a shtetl was not that different than a typical overseas Chinese in Indonesia, complete with pogroms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @nebulafox, @HA, @Johann Ricke

  114. @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    For the moderator, the subject is an occasion to shoot darts at landlords and pawn brokers who’ve been out of business for 50 years or more. No surprise there.
     
    Bingo. I mention this in another comment. Most Jews (thank God) left the slumlord/pawn broker business a generation or two ago - their kids are orthodontists or bankers and never set foot in the ghetto if they can help it. Nowadays your slum landlord is an Albanian or something, but you can't really shoot at them so you pretend that it's still 1956 and the Joos are overcharging you.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    their kids are orthodontists or bankers and never set foot in the ghetto if they can help it. Nowadays your slum landlord is an Albanian or something, but you can’t really shoot at them so you pretend that it’s still 1956 and the Joos are overcharging you.

    This is a kind of damning with praise.

  115. @Jack D
    @Twinkie


    I want some sort of a non-profit foundation run by people of proven leadership who want to do good.
     
    Having a good heart and a strong leader at the top is not enough. "Improving" the black poor is a Sisyphean task and rarely succeeds. Even if the leadership at the very top is strong, by the time you reach the field it drops off fast. In the worst case you get race hustlers and in the best case you get idealistic but inexperienced young liberals who either burn out or quickly become cynical. Dealing with ghetto blacks is enough to make a saint cynical.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    “Improving” the black poor is a Sisyphean task and rarely succeeds.

    No, you CAN improve blacks. You just can’t make them “equal” (to whites, Asians, etc.). Efforts that fail are attempts at the latter.

    You can train animals to be better. You certainly can train (most) blacks who are fellow human beings (albeit of lower IQ on average).

    You noted above that the welfare system has been destructive to blacks. Reforming or even eliminating welfare would be salutary and would “improve” them, as it would lower IQ whites.

  116. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    The buying services are better than nothing if you are a person with average or below bargaining skills and/or don't want to invest any time into negotiation but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.

    Even once you have set a price and told them you are buying for cash*, they usually make you enduring the "finance and insurance manager". They will try to sell you all sorts of optional nonsense at inflated prices - key insurance, tire insurance, extended warranties, etc. Just say no to whatever it is. They will keep dropping the price (because it is hugely inflated) but just keep saying no to the bitter end - even the lower price is STILL overpriced. If you really want an extended warranty you can buy it later elsewhere for less.

    * Sometimes the finance arm of a mfr will offer incentives (such as an additional rebate) so that it actually pays to finance. You can take the financing in order to get the rebate and then pay off the loan at the time of the 1st payment.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.

    I don’t come from such people (my ancestors were warriors and scholars), but even I – with some research – was able to buy a luxury used car once at lower price than what the dealership paid. It sold at a loss to me, because the car had been sitting there for months and was about to be wholesaled or auctioned. It just took a smaller loss by selling to me. The salesman changed his mind the next day (I think someone else called about the car the evening before) and tried to renege on the sale, but I confronted the manager and after a lengthy discussion he agreed that I had the right to buy at the price since I signed a contract and left a deposit (until I brought the check). The salesman threw the keys at me and told me to never come back. I overheard the manager fighting with the salesman (“You shouldn’t have made that deal, we still had a few more days with that car, but you did and now we have to sell it to that guy”).

    I “won,” so to speak, but it was a pretty unpleasant experience overall, and I don’t want to repeat it. Now that I am much older and have the means, it’s better that I let the dealership make a bit of money and not waste my time and is pleasant to me.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    That salesman's name? Albert Einstein.

    , @J.Ross
    @Twinkie


    The salesman threw the keys at me and told me to never come back. I overheard the manager fighting with the salesman (“You shouldn’t have made that deal, we still had a few more days with that car, but you did and now we have to sell it to that guy”).

     

    And then everybody clapped. (I'm kidding)
    , @JMcG
    @Twinkie

    My car dealer should be pleasant to me? Obsequious even. Warriors and scholars indeed.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  117. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    what we do
     
    In my "defense," though, I do buy more cars than most. I have a big family and we have a mini-fleet. But, yes, I buy with cash and keep almost all the cars until they are not worth fixing (which is, as you probably found too, around 15 years).

    Also, I don't haggle. I just email a few local dealers' internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other. They know who I am now, and I usually get pretty good prices (better than any buying service). USAA's buying service guy told my wife that the quotes I received were much better than what he gets (she called once to challenge me - she lost). I settle on the price, again by email. Then I have the bank print a check and pick up the car. I spend very little time the whole process and don't have to step into the dealership to listen to bullshit.

    if everyone did this, our economy would fall into a permanent depression and millions would be unemployed
     
    Disagree. If all or most consumers did this, yes, there might be a one-time hit to the economy, but then things would normalize and the newly prudent consumers would now have more money to invest and consume other things.

    Replies: @Jack D, @prosa123

    “Also, I don’t haggle. I just email a few local dealers’ internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other.”

    I am very surprised that works at all. I’ve read a number of car buying articles on Jalopnik, and the consensus seems to be that dealers generally will not provide online price quotes. All they’ll say is that the potential buyers have to come into the dealerships and discuss prices in person.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @prosa123



    Also, I don’t haggle.
     
    I am very surprised that works at all.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51_Qs8tq5c8
    , @Jack D
    @prosa123

    No, that's not true anymore. They do provide quotes and there are various web buying services that will get you several quotes at once - Costco has a service, so do some of the insurance companies, Consumer Reports has one (for a fee) , TrueCar.com , etc. . That being said, the quotes are not necessarily the absolute best price you could get but they are probably better than what you could get if you walked in in person and the salesman figured you for a sucker (e.g. if you were black). The worst dealers will tack on dealer markup thousand of $ ABOVE MSRP or sell you dealer installed options for vastly inflated prices if they think that you are an idiot (and that's BEFORE you see the F&I guy who will rip you off even more). Usually they don't try that stuff on the web quotes because they figure you are at least smart enough to use a computer.

    , @Bragadocious
    @prosa123

    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It's always, "come on in and let's talk about it!" Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn't.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie

    , @JMcG
    @prosa123

    You are correct. Doesn’t work at all.

    Replies: @Jack D

  118. @Rufus
    @Reg Cæsar

    Bruh. Check your intersectionality scorecard ?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Bruh. Check your intersectionality scorecard ?

    Oh, I’m very intersectional. Straight, white, male, cis-, German, English, Papist, reactionary, reproductive… the intersection of everything they hate!

  119. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Autos are a depreciating asset and the entire US auto industry is based on "rent to own" and always has been. Even rich people lease their cars nowadays. If you had to have the full purchase price before you could buy a car, they wouldn't sell many cars. I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years) but if the car industry had to depend on guys like me and you they would have gone out of business long ago.


    The difference is that the poor pay higher rates to reflect their high likelihood of default. At the bottom end of the market nowadays, they install remote cutoff devices and your car won't run until you make your payment.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Twinkie, @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar

    I buy my cars for cash (and keep them for 15 years)

    That’s about when we buy them. Also for cash.

    But I just inherited a 14-year-old car. First of ours built in this century. I’m glad my mom insisted on five-on-the-floor. Great fun to drive.

  120. @prosa123
    @Twinkie

    "Also, I don’t haggle. I just email a few local dealers’ internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other."

    I am very surprised that works at all. I've read a number of car buying articles on Jalopnik, and the consensus seems to be that dealers generally will not provide online price quotes. All they'll say is that the potential buyers have to come into the dealerships and discuss prices in person.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @Bragadocious, @JMcG

    Also, I don’t haggle.

    I am very surprised that works at all.

  121. @prosa123
    @Twinkie

    "Also, I don’t haggle. I just email a few local dealers’ internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other."

    I am very surprised that works at all. I've read a number of car buying articles on Jalopnik, and the consensus seems to be that dealers generally will not provide online price quotes. All they'll say is that the potential buyers have to come into the dealerships and discuss prices in person.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @Bragadocious, @JMcG

    No, that’s not true anymore. They do provide quotes and there are various web buying services that will get you several quotes at once – Costco has a service, so do some of the insurance companies, Consumer Reports has one (for a fee) , TrueCar.com , etc. . That being said, the quotes are not necessarily the absolute best price you could get but they are probably better than what you could get if you walked in in person and the salesman figured you for a sucker (e.g. if you were black). The worst dealers will tack on dealer markup thousand of $ ABOVE MSRP or sell you dealer installed options for vastly inflated prices if they think that you are an idiot (and that’s BEFORE you see the F&I guy who will rip you off even more). Usually they don’t try that stuff on the web quotes because they figure you are at least smart enough to use a computer.

  122. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    The hatred comes with the territory of being a middle man minority and has nothing to do with Jews being especially rapacious or evil.
     
    Jews have been doing it a lot longer, much more extensively, and benefitted from it far better than "Chinese, Arabs, S. Asians, etc." have... There is no equivalent term to Hofjude ("Court Jew") in Asia.

    The closest any of them ever came to the Jews is probably the Diaspora Chinese merchants in Southeast Asia. But even they never gained the kind of non-economic influence (including ennoblement) that Jews gained in Europe and the Middle East.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews. The situation of a typical Jew in a shtetl was not that different than a typical overseas Chinese in Indonesia, complete with pogroms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    @Jack D

    Yet another comment thread at UNZ.COM devolves into a mutual admiration society (and of course 'endless boasting' society) of asians and jews. Hey guys--what if only jews or asians get to rule in the new century? Which is it gonna be, and why?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    , @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    The '65-66' killings weren't about slaying the Chinese, that was the 1990s. Not that the ethnic Chinese didn't get disproportionately hit-it did not help matters that the PKI was being openly armed by Maoist China-but they weren't the only ethnic group who got disproportionately hit. The democide that accompanied the rise of the New Order was primarily about politics, not race, and by '66, a lot of it was local elites settling petty scores under the chaos of the transition. The 1990s, by contrast, were all about slaying the corrupt "Babi Cina".

    Overall, the Suharto regime had a more complex relationship with them than Tsarist Russia did with the Jews: the Chinese were simultaneously oppressed, but also protected. It was not an accident that it was when the New Order began running into issues that the pogroms began. I always found the Lim-Suharto relationship personally quite fascinating, not least because both men almost encapsulated their racial and social stereotypes perfectly, personality-wise.

    Side note: I always thought you were a practicing Jew. Didn't know you were an unbeliever.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @HA
    @Jack D

    "The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews."

    As you well know, it wasn't just the ones that were ennobled that benefited from the tax-farming, moneylending, pawnbrokering and various other professions whose primary purpose was to bleed dry those "lazy drunken peasants jealous of the Jews' success" (or whatever the exact wording it was that you used to help rationalize or feel better about what was done to them -- I can look it up again if you want to deny it, but I think I captured the gist).

    I'm not saying that should matter to anyone today, but it certainly shouldn't be forgotten, your repeated efforts notwithstanding. For better and for worse, there is much more to Jewish history vis-à-vis the subjugation of the downtrodden than the tiresome shtick about how "we were once slaves in Egypt, and that explains why we've always been on the side..." and it might do us all some good if more people acknowledged (or at least were freer to acknowledge) that.

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D

    Re Indonesia, the Dutch governor general is said to have authorized a general massacre of ethnic Chinese in the then Dutch settlement of Batavia (now Jakarta), a few decades before the American Revolutionary War:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1740_Batavia_massacre

    ~75% of the local ethnic Chinese settlement, about 10,000 people, met their ends at the hands of Dutch-officered colonial troops. This was pretty much par for the course in terms of rebel pacification in China*, but it was unusual, for the time, in Dutch-ruled areas. The governor general responsible died after 10 years in prison, possibly as a result of the typically appalling prison conditions of the time.

    * In 1864, just before the Civil War, the Chinese general Zeng Guoquan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeng_Guoquan is said to have massacred, in Nanjing, 100,000 men, women and children to whom he had promised their lives as a condition of their surrender. He continued to be promoted until he started losing battles.

  123. @Jack D
    @Blackety Black


    There really needs to be a lower cap on these black interest loans.
     
    The only effect of this would be to make it impossible for the highest risk borrowers to get any credit at all.

    Jews would still get to enjoy a sliver of flesh they love so,
     
    Times have changed since 16th century Venice. Christians can now engage in usury also. Today's Shylocks are rarely Jewish. It would be nice if you could draft laws that only affected evil Jews but the reality is that you end up hitting your own people with "friendly fire".

    Replies: @rufus, @Blackety Black

    The only effect of this would be to make it impossible for the highest risk borrowers to get any credit at all.

    You’re begging the question of why buying something you can’t afford should be a civil right.

    Times have changed since 16th century Venice. Christians can now engage in usury also. Today’s Shylocks are rarely Jewish.

    Appaently you’ve never lived in NYC, or any of the five boroughs. Shylock is alive, and overrepresented in those areas alone. Some of the Jewish property speculator there are well qualified sociopaths, with nary a Jew to denounce them, nor a prosecutor willing to send them to prison for a long time.

    While Christians can and do commit fraud, usury, etc, Jews are sadly overrepresented in those sports, compared to Christians, and you know it, as well as sexual misconduct in the workplace , as we’ve seen.

  124. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.
     
    I don't come from such people (my ancestors were warriors and scholars), but even I - with some research - was able to buy a luxury used car once at lower price than what the dealership paid. It sold at a loss to me, because the car had been sitting there for months and was about to be wholesaled or auctioned. It just took a smaller loss by selling to me. The salesman changed his mind the next day (I think someone else called about the car the evening before) and tried to renege on the sale, but I confronted the manager and after a lengthy discussion he agreed that I had the right to buy at the price since I signed a contract and left a deposit (until I brought the check). The salesman threw the keys at me and told me to never come back. I overheard the manager fighting with the salesman ("You shouldn't have made that deal, we still had a few more days with that car, but you did and now we have to sell it to that guy").

    I "won," so to speak, but it was a pretty unpleasant experience overall, and I don't want to repeat it. Now that I am much older and have the means, it's better that I let the dealership make a bit of money and not waste my time and is pleasant to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @JMcG

    That salesman’s name? Albert Einstein.

  125. @Mr McKenna
    @Rob McX

    Another pertinent question: how can you get 22" spinners onto a Honda Civic, and where can I borrow the money to facilitate this worthy goal?

    https://www.wheelplususa.com/images/wheel_image/medium/1316911963/Dub_Spin_Swyrl.jpg

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Rats! Ya beat me to the punch.

  126. Oy vey, they know: shut down [the human capacity for language]!
    http://archive.is/M6RIa

    >There is nothing inherently derogatory about the word “goy.”

    >Disturbingly, the white supremacists have co-opted it to refer to themselves in a shocking example of linguistic appropriation. By incorporating it, and other Yiddish terms, into their nationalist lingo, they perpetuate the anti-Semitic myth that we are a cabal with our own secret language and agenda. “The Goyim Know” is a catch-phrase used to mock Jews by using pseudo-Yiddish phrases to impersonate them by “exposing” the Jewish “ conspiracy. “Oy vey, it’s anudda Shoah” and “oy vey, the goyim know, shut it down” are just two examples often found on social media in comments and on memes.

    >Using the word goy in a news headline simply reinforces the “Jews run the media” and “Jews run the world” tropes. As though getting [militant Zionist and philo-Semite Steve] Bannon fired was all part of our sinister plot for worldwide domination.

    >Ultimately, however, it is our word.

  127. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.
     
    I don't come from such people (my ancestors were warriors and scholars), but even I - with some research - was able to buy a luxury used car once at lower price than what the dealership paid. It sold at a loss to me, because the car had been sitting there for months and was about to be wholesaled or auctioned. It just took a smaller loss by selling to me. The salesman changed his mind the next day (I think someone else called about the car the evening before) and tried to renege on the sale, but I confronted the manager and after a lengthy discussion he agreed that I had the right to buy at the price since I signed a contract and left a deposit (until I brought the check). The salesman threw the keys at me and told me to never come back. I overheard the manager fighting with the salesman ("You shouldn't have made that deal, we still had a few more days with that car, but you did and now we have to sell it to that guy").

    I "won," so to speak, but it was a pretty unpleasant experience overall, and I don't want to repeat it. Now that I am much older and have the means, it's better that I let the dealership make a bit of money and not waste my time and is pleasant to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @JMcG

    The salesman threw the keys at me and told me to never come back. I overheard the manager fighting with the salesman (“You shouldn’t have made that deal, we still had a few more days with that car, but you did and now we have to sell it to that guy”).

    And then everybody clapped. (I’m kidding)

  128. @Anon
    @J.Ross


    Rent-to-Own is just the white devils’ tricknology!
     
    Yours truly, a white devil, indirectly participated in this by owing Rent-A-Center stock. The company tanked. Just desserts for me.

    ... for stuff they shouldn’t be buying in the first place.
     
    This is the key.

    I wonder if this would work or even be legal: A company or a service provider to companies could have a system where salaries are paid in such a way that much of the money is not easily accessible: Long-term investment with horrible penalties for early withdrawal, enforced pension payments, ditto, enforced medical insurance, maybe your rent is paid by your employer with a direct deposit to your landloard. This would all be done under your employment contract. You couldn't live beyond your means if you wanted to. People with low self control would have the finanaces of people willing to defer the marshmallow.

    You would get initial financial counseling, and have to go through financial counseling every time you tried to pry out some more money. Many families have a couple of financial "black hole" members, relatives who always seem to need money and suck up the money of other members, or run insolvent businesses that never actually go bankrupt, etc. (certain cultures are like this, Hawaiians for instance). In these cases you could tell the black holes that you barely have enough to live on. To get more you need to engage your employer's financial counseler, who would have someone to act as third party muscle to deal with the black hole, asking rude questions about their expenses and businesses and suggesting rational ways to deal with money (which will not be welcome by the black holes). Mom needs a place to live, you bought her a home, and she sold it to help Junior, who was in trouble? No more with this new plan. The home would not be in her name or would otherwise be non sellable and would have restrictions on being subleased. "Sorry mom, these guys won't let me get at my money, and I need the job."

    I suppose there would always be sharks who would lend money to these employees and consult with them on how to get money out to pay their usurious loans back.

    Replies: @Counterinsurgency, @Mr McKenna, @Barnard, @Diversity Heretic, @anon, @EdwardM

    This is how some employers operate in the Gulf. One step above indentured servitude, they provide much of their compensation in-kind (housing, food, transportation), statutory deferred compensation payable upon termination (but often offset by various debts to the company that magically emerge), loans theoretically based on counseling, and, worst of all, collusion with banks for the latter to provide services to employees. E.g.,, the banks only extend credit if the employer agrees to remit the salary to an account at the bank. I have even seen employers commit to get the bank’s permission to give a loan to its employees.

    Needless to say, this gets many employees from third-world countries in a lot of trouble. (Add to that they don’t even understand what they’re signing up for.) They often can’t leave the country or extend their visa until they pay off impossible debts. The UAE has an ongoing “amnesty” for visa overstayers, almost all of whom got that way due to indebtedness combined with employment termination.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @EdwardM

    It’s called the Company Store. Listen to Tennessee Ernie Ford. Better yet, watch Matewan for the love of God. Have we all become historically illiterate?

  129. @newrouter
    Bless your hearts:

    >MASSACRE AT FREDDY'S IN HARLEM: FIRE FUELED BY ANTI-SEMITISM KILLS 8
    "Burn the Jew Store Down"<

    https://www.jewishpost.com/archives/news/massacre-at-freddys-in-harlem-fire-fueled-by-anti-semitism-kills-8.html

    Replies: @El Dato

    Ironically, although the picketers had characterized the conflict as a racial, almost all the issues involved were economic — and indirectly caused by federal intervention to improve Harlem! Last year when Harlem was included as part of a new Federal Empowerment Zone, more than $300 million in Federal, state and city funds was slated to flow into Harlem.

    “Winston Smith walked through a Federal Empowerment Zone on his way to meet Julia in a seedy hotel.”

    Sounds about right.

  130. @YetAnotherAnon
    People who can't pay cash and have a poor credit history always end up paying through the nose, be they black or white. This company in the UK sells predominantly to white people in rented accommodation or social housing, and who don't like buying second hand white goods.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrightHouse_(retailer)

    "The company charges interest of between 69.9% and 99.9% APR, and also charges for delivery, installation and compulsory warranties. An investigation by the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme in 2016 cited an example of a washing machine costing £358, with a £55 delivery and installation charge and compulsory £136 warranty. The total cost of the appliance was £1,092 at Brighthouse's typical interest rate of 69.9%."

     

    Replies: @Mr McKenna

    People who can’t pay cash and have a poor credit history always end up paying through the nose, be they black or white.

    But it’s only tragic when they’re POC. Meanwhile there are smart people of every race who simply decide to put off buying things they can’t afford. The actual distribution by race, well, that’s just not the sort of thing we talk about, is it.

  131. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews. The situation of a typical Jew in a shtetl was not that different than a typical overseas Chinese in Indonesia, complete with pogroms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @nebulafox, @HA, @Johann Ricke

    Yet another comment thread at UNZ.COM devolves into a mutual admiration society (and of course ‘endless boasting’ society) of asians and jews. Hey guys–what if only jews or asians get to rule in the new century? Which is it gonna be, and why?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Mr McKenna

    In the US? Asians, way things are going. Not even a contest. And they'll deserve it. To those who fight hardest go the spoils...

    One thing that does interest me is that South Asians tend to be far more politically inclined than East Asians on average. Unfortunately, they also seem more in tune with SJW-ism, as well. But it is almost like the polar opposite of your typical left-wing American Jew's attraction to SJW-ism. The Jews see themselves as underdogs and compulsively have sympathy for other underdogs, right or wrong. The Indians seem to have a sense of superiority, by contrast: like they are enforcing caste norms or something. This is all general and doesn't take into account individuals, of course, yadda yadda yadda...

    , @Twinkie
    @Mr McKenna


    Hey guys–what if only jews or asians get to rule in the new century? Which is it gonna be, and why?
     
    If it were up to me, I would like my wife’s people to be in charge - earnest, religious, hardworking, modest and communal Midwestern whites. If it came down to it, I would fight for them to rule. Personally, I’m more in tune with Appalachian whites emotionally, but they don’t make good rulers.
  132. Blacks have got a lot of legitimate beefs. What the hell happened to Steve Sailor to make him see it?? Was he hit by lightening or something?

  133. @Daniel Williams
    I’d love for this author to explain why the predatory sales tactics he described work on blacks but not on whites.

    Or do sellers not “target” whites for this kind of abuse like they do blacks?

    Replies: @South Texas Guy, @istevefan, @Digital Samizdat, @The Plutonium Kid

    Many poor whites are victimized this way, too. Some deserve it because they just can’t look past their next pay check or welfare check, while others are just poor working stiffs who got caught on the debt treadmill and can’t find a way to get off. A large part of the reason is that the victims–white, black or whatever–are poorly educated and can’t do the basic math to see what a disaster those interest rates are.

  134. @prosa123
    @Twinkie

    "Also, I don’t haggle. I just email a few local dealers’ internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other."

    I am very surprised that works at all. I've read a number of car buying articles on Jalopnik, and the consensus seems to be that dealers generally will not provide online price quotes. All they'll say is that the potential buyers have to come into the dealerships and discuss prices in person.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @Bragadocious, @JMcG

    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It’s always, “come on in and let’s talk about it!” Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn’t.

    • Agree: prosa123
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bragadocious

    My son got his car over the Internet: 3 local dealers sent him prices, he picked the lowest (which was quite low), went in and got exactly the car at exactly the price quoted in the email. It was a very pleasant experience.

    It was on Labor Day and the dealers still had a lot of 2017 models in stock they wanted to unload before the 2018s arrived, but this wasn't a year in which they were making major revisions to the car so it was just nominal. If you wanted to sell your car in three years, it matters for your resale price whether it's a 2017 or 2018, but if you are going to keep it for 10 years, the resale price differential is very minor.

    , @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It’s always, “come on in and let’s talk about it!” Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn’t.
     
    So you are a sucker and think everyone else is too?

    Read and weep: http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

    I'll repeat what Michael, my ASM, told me about Caucasians . He said white people never come into the dealership. "They're all on the Internet trying to find out what our invoice price is. We never even get a shot at them. I hate it. I mean, would they go (to a mall) and say, 'What's your invoice price on that beautiful suit?' No. So why are they doing it here?"

    I was already beginning to see the impact of the Internet because of something that happened during my first few days there. I was sent to the service department to talk to customers waiting for their cars to be fixed. Salespeople feel this is a good source of leads to buy new cars. Say a customer has just gotten nailed with a $2,000 quote for a transmission. Now's the time to move in and pitch the virtues of a new car.

    There were typically a dozen or more people waiting for their cars to be serviced. They would either watch TV or read while they drank coffee and Cokes from the vending machines. I handed out my business card and chatted with a few people. One young guy was killing time by goofing around with his Palm Top computer. He was outfitted in designer jeans and a T-shirt, so I wasn't surprised to hear that he had just bought the radical new SUV our dealership sold. Michael had told me these vehicles were selling for over sticker prices, so I asked Mr. Palm Top how he made out.

    "I got an awesome deal," he said.

    "How awesome?"

    "Three hundred below invoice," he smugly answered.

    I asked how he did it. He said he checked prices on the Internet. He then called the fleet manager and made the deal over the phone.

    I had a schizophrenic reaction to this. Part of me admired the fact that he had outfoxed the dealer. But the car salesman side of me was angry that I never "got a shot at him." It seemed like just a matter of time before people who, in the past, walked onto our car lot, would be on the Internet making deals.

    The salesmen are only vaguely aware of this developing trend. I was standing on the curb next to George and we saw one of these high-demand SUVs ready for delivery.

    "Another damn Internet sale," George said. "Why don't they turn that car over to us? We'd get a grand over sticker. Instead they're selling it at invoice. Does that make sense?" As the days passed I noticed more and more cars marked "carsdirect.com." And as I approached people on the car lot they often informed me that they were here to see the fleet manager. More Internet customers.
     
    That was written in 2000. 18 years ago. What do you think car-buying is like in super-zips with hyper-educated white and Asian buyers are like today? Car dealers in my area don’t even bother trying to hustle buyers like me, because they know it’s a waste of time. They try to make a little each on the volume (if possible) and move on. Most dealerships around here make money on service, not sales.

    Replies: @Bragadocious, @JMcG

  135. Do you think Samuel Jackson realizes he is being used to market credit cards toward blacks that would definitely be better off without them?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Of course he does. Prolly sweating the lease payment on his G-wagen.

  136. @Moses
    Spike Lee got slapped down hard by the chosen for his portrayal of Jewish nightclub owners exploiting Black musical talent in "Mo' Better Blues."

    From an interview with Lee in New York Magazine:


    “B’nai Brith and the Anti- Defamation League, they were on my ass,” he says. “You don’t know what it is for someone to get on your ass until B’nai Brith and Anti- Defamation League … You know that shit, when they’re on you, you know it.”

    Eventually Lee placated his persecutors by writing an op-ed piece for the Times, but the whole thing still makes him mad when he thinks about it. And the truth is, he’s not sorry about portraying Mo and Josh Flatbush as Jewish bloodsuckers, feeding off the talents of black musicians. “Here’s the thing, though: It’s more than being a stereotype,” says Lee. “In the history of American music, there have not been Jewish people exploiting black musicians? In the history of music? How is that being stereotypical? For me, that’s like saying, like the NBA is predominantly black. Now, if that makes me anti- Semitic ...” For a minute, he actually engages and sort of laughs. “I’m not writing any more op-ed pieces,” he says. “I did it once. I’m not doing it again. Seriously. I’m not doing it again.”
     

    http://nymag.com/movies/profiles/19144/index5.html

    Now, if he had properly portrayed the nightclub owners as "White" there would have been no problem at all. That's how the NYT headline would read.

    Replies: @Don't Look at Me

    “Whoa Spike! No need to be so specific all the time.”

  137. @TTSSYF
    @istevefan

    While I agree with nearly everything you write, including this post, I believe that what you call "gullible" is more accurately described as "high-trust". It's what enables whites to build functional societies. Yes, we sign contracts, but they're only as good as the intent behind them. This characteristic of high-trust, gentlemen's agreements, word-of-honor, respect for institutions, etc., is exploited by those who don't share it, including the millions of immigrants we've received from Third-World countries over the past several decades. I don't know that it's that non-whites are less gullible...I think it's more that they're just cynical, lacking in impulse-control / ability to defer gratification, and/or don't come from high-trust societies.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    “High-trust” is literally just an extremely esoteric, less derogatory way to say “gullible.” They refer to identical concepts. There’s nothing else to it.

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    @AndrewR

    In our former, predominantly white society, then no. In this new global society, then probably yes.

    , @J.Ross
    @AndrewR

    Trash analysis. African societies are low-trust but are full of gullible people. There is nothing stupid about trusting a good system. The ease of high-trust societies probably produces gullibility over time, but they originated with no-trust warriors and farmers, who had the intellect and work ethic to build reliable mutual obligation networks to survive the Northern European winter. None of it would have gotten off the ground had the first generations been merely gullible.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  138. @Alec Leamas
    Perhaps "rent to own" and other similar schemes predated blacks' and Hispanics' experience with credit, but these arrangements are in practice much more bilateral than the advocates are proposing.

    You'd be amazed (perhaps not) by how blacks and Hispanics default on loans - including mortgages - after only the first few payments. No matter how you explain it, the idea that they can possess something but that it is not theirs until it is paid for in full doesn't seem to penetrate. Once they have it, it's theirs, and the creditor is viewed as some sort of annoyance. These people are by and large judgment-proof - they don't fear judgments and liens the way that middle class people do.

    The idea that the lender will ever recoup the (inflated) amount due is risible. Rent-to-own and subprime lending is simply calculated to more sharply front-load the profit prior to the eventual default and the compensate for the costs of recovering the asset.

    Replies: @JMcG

    This is exactly right. I can add to it though. How many people do you know who refer to their house as “their house” even though they have 20 years left on the mortgage?
    I always call it the bank’s house. After that, it’ll be the government’s house. See what happens if you stop paying property taxes.

    • Agree: AndrewR
  139. @Jack D
    @rufus


    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses
     

    Experience large losses and fold when all of the money is gone.

    The only people who can lend to blacks and not go broke at it are sharks like Goldstein. The Gates non-profit would hire nice white ladies who would fall for the ghetto folks hard luck stories (the one thing never in short supply in the ghetto is bad luck) and they would never collect anything. Lending money to black is easy. Getting them to pay it back is hard, very hard. Your best bet is to charge them a lot up front because the chances that they will pay it back all the way to the end are small, as are your chances of recovering any value from the collateral or collecting on a judgment. When people say that the interest rate on a loan to blacks is x% (some high number) this assumes that the borrower will actually pay it back. The actually IRR on these loans is much, much lower and negative if you are not ruthless.

    That's nice of you to think up ways for Gates and Powell to spend their money. You should be a Democrat - their specialty is thinking of ways to spend other people's money in order to "do good".

    Replies: @rufus, @AndrewR

    Not sure what the hostility is for. He didn’t call for the government to take all of Gates’ wealth (although that would hardly be very tragic). We already know Gates is a philanthropist. Instead of spending his billions on foreigners, he could spend it on Americans. As long as blacks live in the same country as us, we have the responsibility as the wiser group to help them mitigate the effects of their collective genetic handicaps, like poor impulse control. Bajillionaires like Gates have much more responsibility still.

  140. @AndrewR
    @TTSSYF

    "High-trust" is literally just an extremely esoteric, less derogatory way to say "gullible." They refer to identical concepts. There's nothing else to it.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @J.Ross

    In our former, predominantly white society, then no. In this new global society, then probably yes.

  141. @Bragadocious
    @prosa123

    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It's always, "come on in and let's talk about it!" Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn't.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie

    My son got his car over the Internet: 3 local dealers sent him prices, he picked the lowest (which was quite low), went in and got exactly the car at exactly the price quoted in the email. It was a very pleasant experience.

    It was on Labor Day and the dealers still had a lot of 2017 models in stock they wanted to unload before the 2018s arrived, but this wasn’t a year in which they were making major revisions to the car so it was just nominal. If you wanted to sell your car in three years, it matters for your resale price whether it’s a 2017 or 2018, but if you are going to keep it for 10 years, the resale price differential is very minor.

  142. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews. The situation of a typical Jew in a shtetl was not that different than a typical overseas Chinese in Indonesia, complete with pogroms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @nebulafox, @HA, @Johann Ricke

    The ’65-66′ killings weren’t about slaying the Chinese, that was the 1990s. Not that the ethnic Chinese didn’t get disproportionately hit-it did not help matters that the PKI was being openly armed by Maoist China-but they weren’t the only ethnic group who got disproportionately hit. The democide that accompanied the rise of the New Order was primarily about politics, not race, and by ’66, a lot of it was local elites settling petty scores under the chaos of the transition. The 1990s, by contrast, were all about slaying the corrupt “Babi Cina”.

    Overall, the Suharto regime had a more complex relationship with them than Tsarist Russia did with the Jews: the Chinese were simultaneously oppressed, but also protected. It was not an accident that it was when the New Order began running into issues that the pogroms began. I always found the Lim-Suharto relationship personally quite fascinating, not least because both men almost encapsulated their racial and social stereotypes perfectly, personality-wise.

    Side note: I always thought you were a practicing Jew. Didn’t know you were an unbeliever.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @nebulafox

    I wouldn't say that I'm an unbeliever, but I'm not exactly a believer either. Somewhere in between.

  143. @AndrewR
    @TTSSYF

    "High-trust" is literally just an extremely esoteric, less derogatory way to say "gullible." They refer to identical concepts. There's nothing else to it.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @J.Ross

    Trash analysis. African societies are low-trust but are full of gullible people. There is nothing stupid about trusting a good system. The ease of high-trust societies probably produces gullibility over time, but they originated with no-trust warriors and farmers, who had the intellect and work ethic to build reliable mutual obligation networks to survive the Northern European winter. None of it would have gotten off the ground had the first generations been merely gullible.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @J.Ross

    It’s not just Northern Europe: https://youtu.be/kWW4xzlrOWQ

    Replies: @J.Ross

  144. @Mr McKenna
    @Jack D

    Yet another comment thread at UNZ.COM devolves into a mutual admiration society (and of course 'endless boasting' society) of asians and jews. Hey guys--what if only jews or asians get to rule in the new century? Which is it gonna be, and why?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    In the US? Asians, way things are going. Not even a contest. And they’ll deserve it. To those who fight hardest go the spoils…

    One thing that does interest me is that South Asians tend to be far more politically inclined than East Asians on average. Unfortunately, they also seem more in tune with SJW-ism, as well. But it is almost like the polar opposite of your typical left-wing American Jew’s attraction to SJW-ism. The Jews see themselves as underdogs and compulsively have sympathy for other underdogs, right or wrong. The Indians seem to have a sense of superiority, by contrast: like they are enforcing caste norms or something. This is all general and doesn’t take into account individuals, of course, yadda yadda yadda…

  145. @Bragadocious
    @prosa123

    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It's always, "come on in and let's talk about it!" Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn't.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie

    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It’s always, “come on in and let’s talk about it!” Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn’t.

    So you are a sucker and think everyone else is too?

    Read and weep: http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

    I’ll repeat what Michael, my ASM, told me about Caucasians . He said white people never come into the dealership. “They’re all on the Internet trying to find out what our invoice price is. We never even get a shot at them. I hate it. I mean, would they go (to a mall) and say, ‘What’s your invoice price on that beautiful suit?’ No. So why are they doing it here?”

    I was already beginning to see the impact of the Internet because of something that happened during my first few days there. I was sent to the service department to talk to customers waiting for their cars to be fixed. Salespeople feel this is a good source of leads to buy new cars. Say a customer has just gotten nailed with a $2,000 quote for a transmission. Now’s the time to move in and pitch the virtues of a new car.

    There were typically a dozen or more people waiting for their cars to be serviced. They would either watch TV or read while they drank coffee and Cokes from the vending machines. I handed out my business card and chatted with a few people. One young guy was killing time by goofing around with his Palm Top computer. He was outfitted in designer jeans and a T-shirt, so I wasn’t surprised to hear that he had just bought the radical new SUV our dealership sold. Michael had told me these vehicles were selling for over sticker prices, so I asked Mr. Palm Top how he made out.

    “I got an awesome deal,” he said.

    “How awesome?”

    “Three hundred below invoice,” he smugly answered.

    I asked how he did it. He said he checked prices on the Internet. He then called the fleet manager and made the deal over the phone.

    I had a schizophrenic reaction to this. Part of me admired the fact that he had outfoxed the dealer. But the car salesman side of me was angry that I never “got a shot at him.” It seemed like just a matter of time before people who, in the past, walked onto our car lot, would be on the Internet making deals.

    The salesmen are only vaguely aware of this developing trend. I was standing on the curb next to George and we saw one of these high-demand SUVs ready for delivery.

    “Another damn Internet sale,” George said. “Why don’t they turn that car over to us? We’d get a grand over sticker. Instead they’re selling it at invoice. Does that make sense?” As the days passed I noticed more and more cars marked “carsdirect.com.” And as I approached people on the car lot they often informed me that they were here to see the fleet manager. More Internet customers.

    That was written in 2000. 18 years ago. What do you think car-buying is like in super-zips with hyper-educated white and Asian buyers are like today? Car dealers in my area don’t even bother trying to hustle buyers like me, because they know it’s a waste of time. They try to make a little each on the volume (if possible) and move on. Most dealerships around here make money on service, not sales.

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    @Twinkie

    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.

    Anyway, "three hundred below invoice" isn't necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don't disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you're the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.

    As for me, I tend not to buy new cars. I pay cash for used. But I like e-mailing dealers from time to time -- always from a burner address.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @J.Ross

    , @JMcG
    @Twinkie

    That was written 18 years ago. Do you seriously think that bears even a passing resemblance to the way cars are sold today? You’re a libertarian, aren’t you?

    Replies: @Twinkie

  146. @Viral Architect
    But nobody ever thinks to ask: Is it good for the whites?

    Just as nobody ever thinks to ask:

    Is it good for the cockroaches?
    Is it good for the rats?
    Is it good for the evil people who owe a permanent and increasing debt to all communities of color?

    Replies: @fish, @Anonym, @Rufus, @nebulafox

    Ohs Turcluckens….

  147. @Mr McKenna
    @Jack D

    Yet another comment thread at UNZ.COM devolves into a mutual admiration society (and of course 'endless boasting' society) of asians and jews. Hey guys--what if only jews or asians get to rule in the new century? Which is it gonna be, and why?

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Twinkie

    Hey guys–what if only jews or asians get to rule in the new century? Which is it gonna be, and why?

    If it were up to me, I would like my wife’s people to be in charge – earnest, religious, hardworking, modest and communal Midwestern whites. If it came down to it, I would fight for them to rule. Personally, I’m more in tune with Appalachian whites emotionally, but they don’t make good rulers.

  148. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews. The situation of a typical Jew in a shtetl was not that different than a typical overseas Chinese in Indonesia, complete with pogroms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @nebulafox, @HA, @Johann Ricke

    “The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews.”

    As you well know, it wasn’t just the ones that were ennobled that benefited from the tax-farming, moneylending, pawnbrokering and various other professions whose primary purpose was to bleed dry those “lazy drunken peasants jealous of the Jews’ success” (or whatever the exact wording it was that you used to help rationalize or feel better about what was done to them — I can look it up again if you want to deny it, but I think I captured the gist).

    I’m not saying that should matter to anyone today, but it certainly shouldn’t be forgotten, your repeated efforts notwithstanding. For better and for worse, there is much more to Jewish history vis-à-vis the subjugation of the downtrodden than the tiresome shtick about how “we were once slaves in Egypt, and that explains why we’ve always been on the side…” and it might do us all some good if more people acknowledged (or at least were freer to acknowledge) that.

  149. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    If you still have 1 working key it is usually possible to program additional keys yourself, depend on the brand. There is usually some trick sequence of steps - turn the key to the on position, press a button on the remote, spin around and click your heels 3 times, etc. Google is your friend.

    Your best bet in mechanics is usually some cranky old white guy. Avoid the dealers like the plague. I have a guy who allows me to bring him parts (which you can usually source on the internet much cheaper than from the dealer or even the local auto parts st0re) and he charges me for labor only. I pay him cash and it's always some (low) round $ - $100 or $200. There's no way you can keep a car for 15 years if you keep taking back to the dealer - the cost will kill you. Auto mechanics are like waiters in Jewish delis - unless they are old and cranky you are not getting the full experience.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Jack- I agree with you 90+% of the time. You are grinding your mechanic for no reason. You are a lawyer for God’s sake. Buy the parts from him. Cut the guy a break. It’s the right thing to do.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @JMcG

    I am not grinding anyone. I don't hold a gun to his head and demand that he fix my car. I don't even bargain with the guy. Whatever the guy asks me to pay, I pay him. If he asked me for more, I'd pay him more (up to a point). Sometimes, I suspect, he charges me (a little) more than his actual time - I don't care - that's fair for the reason that you state (he' not making anything on the parts). He doesn't have to deal with ordering parts or paying for them or keeping track of the expenses . I hand him the necessary parts, he bolts them on, I hand him some crisp bills and we are done. Everyone is happy! I cannot think of a more pure arms length transaction. No one is getting ground.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  150. @Barnard
    @El Dato

    It is, the primary beneficiaries of Cash for Clunkers were upper middle class and wealthy car buyers who were already going to buy a car or moved up a purchase a few months to take advantage of the rebate. People who needed to buy a used car in the next 18-24 months got hammered. It should have been obvious going into the program what would happen, but no one in the Obama Administration seemed to get it.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    It should have been obvious going into the program what would happen, but no one in the Obama Administration seemed to get it.

    FIFY.

    It should have been obvious going into the program what would happen, but no one in the Obama Administration cared.

  151. @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    The '65-66' killings weren't about slaying the Chinese, that was the 1990s. Not that the ethnic Chinese didn't get disproportionately hit-it did not help matters that the PKI was being openly armed by Maoist China-but they weren't the only ethnic group who got disproportionately hit. The democide that accompanied the rise of the New Order was primarily about politics, not race, and by '66, a lot of it was local elites settling petty scores under the chaos of the transition. The 1990s, by contrast, were all about slaying the corrupt "Babi Cina".

    Overall, the Suharto regime had a more complex relationship with them than Tsarist Russia did with the Jews: the Chinese were simultaneously oppressed, but also protected. It was not an accident that it was when the New Order began running into issues that the pogroms began. I always found the Lim-Suharto relationship personally quite fascinating, not least because both men almost encapsulated their racial and social stereotypes perfectly, personality-wise.

    Side note: I always thought you were a practicing Jew. Didn't know you were an unbeliever.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I wouldn’t say that I’m an unbeliever, but I’m not exactly a believer either. Somewhere in between.

  152. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    but if your people have been haggling as a national sport for the last couple of millenia then you can beat them every time.
     
    I don't come from such people (my ancestors were warriors and scholars), but even I - with some research - was able to buy a luxury used car once at lower price than what the dealership paid. It sold at a loss to me, because the car had been sitting there for months and was about to be wholesaled or auctioned. It just took a smaller loss by selling to me. The salesman changed his mind the next day (I think someone else called about the car the evening before) and tried to renege on the sale, but I confronted the manager and after a lengthy discussion he agreed that I had the right to buy at the price since I signed a contract and left a deposit (until I brought the check). The salesman threw the keys at me and told me to never come back. I overheard the manager fighting with the salesman ("You shouldn't have made that deal, we still had a few more days with that car, but you did and now we have to sell it to that guy").

    I "won," so to speak, but it was a pretty unpleasant experience overall, and I don't want to repeat it. Now that I am much older and have the means, it's better that I let the dealership make a bit of money and not waste my time and is pleasant to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @J.Ross, @JMcG

    My car dealer should be pleasant to me? Obsequious even. Warriors and scholars indeed.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JMcG


    My car dealer should be pleasant to me? Obsequious even. Warriors and scholars indeed.
     
    I would like all merchants to be pleasant. Obsequious? No. You must think I’m Indian.

    I go hunting with the foreman of the mowing crew for my house. And I’m friends with the HVAC tech who works on my house. We drink beer and watch MMA and talk guns.
  153. @prosa123
    @Twinkie

    "Also, I don’t haggle. I just email a few local dealers’ internet departments, and tell them the specs and that I will buy from the lowest bidder. I pick the two lowest bidders and then see which of the two can one-up the other."

    I am very surprised that works at all. I've read a number of car buying articles on Jalopnik, and the consensus seems to be that dealers generally will not provide online price quotes. All they'll say is that the potential buyers have to come into the dealerships and discuss prices in person.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @Bragadocious, @JMcG

    You are correct. Doesn’t work at all.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @JMcG

    Nope, not at all. It's not as if you are buying a Coke from a vending machine:

    https://designawards.core77.com/Interaction/51472/Carvana-Car-Vending-Machine

    It's true that for everything else you buy nowadays, you comparison shop for the best price over the internet, click a few times and it's done, but it was decreed by God that for all time you will have to shop for a car the same way you would if you were buying a rug in Baghdad circa 1200.

  154. @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It’s always, “come on in and let’s talk about it!” Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn’t.
     
    So you are a sucker and think everyone else is too?

    Read and weep: http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

    I'll repeat what Michael, my ASM, told me about Caucasians . He said white people never come into the dealership. "They're all on the Internet trying to find out what our invoice price is. We never even get a shot at them. I hate it. I mean, would they go (to a mall) and say, 'What's your invoice price on that beautiful suit?' No. So why are they doing it here?"

    I was already beginning to see the impact of the Internet because of something that happened during my first few days there. I was sent to the service department to talk to customers waiting for their cars to be fixed. Salespeople feel this is a good source of leads to buy new cars. Say a customer has just gotten nailed with a $2,000 quote for a transmission. Now's the time to move in and pitch the virtues of a new car.

    There were typically a dozen or more people waiting for their cars to be serviced. They would either watch TV or read while they drank coffee and Cokes from the vending machines. I handed out my business card and chatted with a few people. One young guy was killing time by goofing around with his Palm Top computer. He was outfitted in designer jeans and a T-shirt, so I wasn't surprised to hear that he had just bought the radical new SUV our dealership sold. Michael had told me these vehicles were selling for over sticker prices, so I asked Mr. Palm Top how he made out.

    "I got an awesome deal," he said.

    "How awesome?"

    "Three hundred below invoice," he smugly answered.

    I asked how he did it. He said he checked prices on the Internet. He then called the fleet manager and made the deal over the phone.

    I had a schizophrenic reaction to this. Part of me admired the fact that he had outfoxed the dealer. But the car salesman side of me was angry that I never "got a shot at him." It seemed like just a matter of time before people who, in the past, walked onto our car lot, would be on the Internet making deals.

    The salesmen are only vaguely aware of this developing trend. I was standing on the curb next to George and we saw one of these high-demand SUVs ready for delivery.

    "Another damn Internet sale," George said. "Why don't they turn that car over to us? We'd get a grand over sticker. Instead they're selling it at invoice. Does that make sense?" As the days passed I noticed more and more cars marked "carsdirect.com." And as I approached people on the car lot they often informed me that they were here to see the fleet manager. More Internet customers.
     
    That was written in 2000. 18 years ago. What do you think car-buying is like in super-zips with hyper-educated white and Asian buyers are like today? Car dealers in my area don’t even bother trying to hustle buyers like me, because they know it’s a waste of time. They try to make a little each on the volume (if possible) and move on. Most dealerships around here make money on service, not sales.

    Replies: @Bragadocious, @JMcG

    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.

    Anyway, “three hundred below invoice” isn’t necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don’t disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you’re the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.

    As for me, I tend not to buy new cars. I pay cash for used. But I like e-mailing dealers from time to time — always from a burner address.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.
     
    I guess Mr. Sailer is making up his son’s story too.

    Don’t believe me. Keep going into the dealership and suffer through the bulkshit and high pressure tactics. I don’t have that kind of time. Doesn’t bother me one whit that you are a sucker who refuses to learn.

    Anyway, “three hundred below invoice” isn’t necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don’t disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you’re the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.
     
    You can find all that information easily down to incentives dealers give to salesmen on volume on the fricking Internet. Nothing is really undisclosed nowadays. Even Edmund’s shows manufacturer incentives that dealers used to guard. You can go even deeper on a car make enthusiast forum, and actual guys working at dealerships as sales or mechanics will spill all the beans.

    Replies: @Bragadocious, @Steve Sailer

    , @J.Ross
    @Bragadocious

    I don't remember the name of the form, but you can buy a car filling out a form most car buyers never see or deal with, which lets you specify every single thing in it. This ought to control most of what a dealership sneaks in. The guy I knew who did it that way had worked on cars all his life, and had become an engineer (mostly automotive but at one point working with NASA), so he knew what all the little parts and options were. It's not something for everybody.

    Replies: @Jack D

  155. @EdwardM
    @Anon

    This is how some employers operate in the Gulf. One step above indentured servitude, they provide much of their compensation in-kind (housing, food, transportation), statutory deferred compensation payable upon termination (but often offset by various debts to the company that magically emerge), loans theoretically based on counseling, and, worst of all, collusion with banks for the latter to provide services to employees. E.g.,, the banks only extend credit if the employer agrees to remit the salary to an account at the bank. I have even seen employers commit to get the bank's permission to give a loan to its employees.

    Needless to say, this gets many employees from third-world countries in a lot of trouble. (Add to that they don't even understand what they're signing up for.) They often can't leave the country or extend their visa until they pay off impossible debts. The UAE has an ongoing "amnesty" for visa overstayers, almost all of whom got that way due to indebtedness combined with employment termination.

    Replies: @JMcG

    It’s called the Company Store. Listen to Tennessee Ernie Ford. Better yet, watch Matewan for the love of God. Have we all become historically illiterate?

  156. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Do you think Samuel Jackson realizes he is being used to market credit cards toward blacks that would definitely be better off without them?

    Replies: @JMcG

    Of course he does. Prolly sweating the lease payment on his G-wagen.

  157. @Jack D
    @Jonathan Mason

    $200 is low. You should have been able to get more on Craigslist. I think I got $600 for my last Audi with a blown engine. Some African guy (living in the US) was going to make 1 car out of 2.

    I usually buy demos at the end of the model year. These might have 1,000 miles on them but carry new car warranties. Sometimes the manufacturers chip in to enable the dealer to clear these out. The dealer markup on new cars is not that big (although they get "holdback" which means that they pay less than "invoice") but the manufacturer can put many thousands on the hood if they want.

    Replies: @Dtbb

    I buy em for around $500, drive em til they die, and get $300 or $400 from the junkyard. Just have to pay for towing. Newest car I have ever owned is ’96. I drive a ’94 currently. I love the people who go to a buy here pay here and then will drive miles to save 4 cents on a gallon of gas. They never listen to logic.

  158. @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    Yeah, imma call BS on the e-mail the internet dept. strategy. First of all, the dink running the internet dept. has no authority to issue price quotes. Second, no dealer in my life experience has ever, ever, offered a number over the phone or via e-mail. Aside from MSRP. It’s always, “come on in and let’s talk about it!” Why would dealers cut their own nuts off by e-mailing low low prices and putting it in writing? They wouldn’t.
     
    So you are a sucker and think everyone else is too?

    Read and weep: http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

    I'll repeat what Michael, my ASM, told me about Caucasians . He said white people never come into the dealership. "They're all on the Internet trying to find out what our invoice price is. We never even get a shot at them. I hate it. I mean, would they go (to a mall) and say, 'What's your invoice price on that beautiful suit?' No. So why are they doing it here?"

    I was already beginning to see the impact of the Internet because of something that happened during my first few days there. I was sent to the service department to talk to customers waiting for their cars to be fixed. Salespeople feel this is a good source of leads to buy new cars. Say a customer has just gotten nailed with a $2,000 quote for a transmission. Now's the time to move in and pitch the virtues of a new car.

    There were typically a dozen or more people waiting for their cars to be serviced. They would either watch TV or read while they drank coffee and Cokes from the vending machines. I handed out my business card and chatted with a few people. One young guy was killing time by goofing around with his Palm Top computer. He was outfitted in designer jeans and a T-shirt, so I wasn't surprised to hear that he had just bought the radical new SUV our dealership sold. Michael had told me these vehicles were selling for over sticker prices, so I asked Mr. Palm Top how he made out.

    "I got an awesome deal," he said.

    "How awesome?"

    "Three hundred below invoice," he smugly answered.

    I asked how he did it. He said he checked prices on the Internet. He then called the fleet manager and made the deal over the phone.

    I had a schizophrenic reaction to this. Part of me admired the fact that he had outfoxed the dealer. But the car salesman side of me was angry that I never "got a shot at him." It seemed like just a matter of time before people who, in the past, walked onto our car lot, would be on the Internet making deals.

    The salesmen are only vaguely aware of this developing trend. I was standing on the curb next to George and we saw one of these high-demand SUVs ready for delivery.

    "Another damn Internet sale," George said. "Why don't they turn that car over to us? We'd get a grand over sticker. Instead they're selling it at invoice. Does that make sense?" As the days passed I noticed more and more cars marked "carsdirect.com." And as I approached people on the car lot they often informed me that they were here to see the fleet manager. More Internet customers.
     
    That was written in 2000. 18 years ago. What do you think car-buying is like in super-zips with hyper-educated white and Asian buyers are like today? Car dealers in my area don’t even bother trying to hustle buyers like me, because they know it’s a waste of time. They try to make a little each on the volume (if possible) and move on. Most dealerships around here make money on service, not sales.

    Replies: @Bragadocious, @JMcG

    That was written 18 years ago. Do you seriously think that bears even a passing resemblance to the way cars are sold today? You’re a libertarian, aren’t you?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JMcG


    That was written 18 years ago. Do you seriously think that bears even a passing resemblance to the way cars are sold today? You’re a libertarian, aren’t you?
     
    1. No, I am not.

    2. Are you dumb? The Internet sales trend has only grown since. You think Mr. Sailer too is making up a story about how his son bought his last car over the Internet?

    Geez, why do I waste my time conversing with people here.
  159. @JMcG
    @Jack D

    Jack- I agree with you 90+% of the time. You are grinding your mechanic for no reason. You are a lawyer for God’s sake. Buy the parts from him. Cut the guy a break. It’s the right thing to do.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I am not grinding anyone. I don’t hold a gun to his head and demand that he fix my car. I don’t even bargain with the guy. Whatever the guy asks me to pay, I pay him. If he asked me for more, I’d pay him more (up to a point). Sometimes, I suspect, he charges me (a little) more than his actual time – I don’t care – that’s fair for the reason that you state (he’ not making anything on the parts). He doesn’t have to deal with ordering parts or paying for them or keeping track of the expenses . I hand him the necessary parts, he bolts them on, I hand him some crisp bills and we are done. Everyone is happy! I cannot think of a more pure arms length transaction. No one is getting ground.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D

    I value my mechanic. He is honest and skilled. I buy parts from him and let him profit from the small markup in addition to labor. He doesn’t like customers bringing in their own parts, because he can’t ensure the quality of the said part. His parts and his labor, and he stands by them 100%.

    Replies: @Jack D

  160. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    I am not grinding anyone. I don't hold a gun to his head and demand that he fix my car. I don't even bargain with the guy. Whatever the guy asks me to pay, I pay him. If he asked me for more, I'd pay him more (up to a point). Sometimes, I suspect, he charges me (a little) more than his actual time - I don't care - that's fair for the reason that you state (he' not making anything on the parts). He doesn't have to deal with ordering parts or paying for them or keeping track of the expenses . I hand him the necessary parts, he bolts them on, I hand him some crisp bills and we are done. Everyone is happy! I cannot think of a more pure arms length transaction. No one is getting ground.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I value my mechanic. He is honest and skilled. I buy parts from him and let him profit from the small markup in addition to labor. He doesn’t like customers bringing in their own parts, because he can’t ensure the quality of the said part. His parts and his labor, and he stands by them 100%.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    It's all a matter of expectations. Obviously I don't expect my mechanic to stand behind the parts that he didn't buy. If I get a $50 brand new Chinese CV axle over the internet instead of the $300 "rebuilt" part that the dealer stocks and it fails after a few years, I'll pay him another $100 to hang its $50 Chinese replacement on there (and I'm still ahead).

    I get along really well with my mechanic . He has been doing this for a really long time and is not a shy guy. If he didn't like our arrangement, he would not hesitate to tell me to go have sexual relations with myself. So I don't know why it is that you know better than we do what is in his own best interest and mine.

    Replies: @keuril

  161. @JMcG
    @Twinkie

    My car dealer should be pleasant to me? Obsequious even. Warriors and scholars indeed.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    My car dealer should be pleasant to me? Obsequious even. Warriors and scholars indeed.

    I would like all merchants to be pleasant. Obsequious? No. You must think I’m Indian.

    I go hunting with the foreman of the mowing crew for my house. And I’m friends with the HVAC tech who works on my house. We drink beer and watch MMA and talk guns.

  162. @J.Ross
    @AndrewR

    Trash analysis. African societies are low-trust but are full of gullible people. There is nothing stupid about trusting a good system. The ease of high-trust societies probably produces gullibility over time, but they originated with no-trust warriors and farmers, who had the intellect and work ethic to build reliable mutual obligation networks to survive the Northern European winter. None of it would have gotten off the ground had the first generations been merely gullible.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    It’s not just Northern Europe:

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Twinkie

    Of course, I didn't mean to be exclusive, and thought of that as soon as I hit publish. There are a lot of northern hemisphere fairy tales that depend on a little system of gradually verifying claims. In Siberia, tribes who lived far away from one another and had no way to learn their "neighbor's" language developed a communication-free trading system, usable on total strangers. They would leave samples, and then goods, in a "neutral" spot and watch from a "safe" place nearby. The parties would never come close enough to attack, would gain nothing from poisoning the samples, and would be able to discover weight-cheating.

  163. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    The number of Jews that were ennobled in Europe was a tiny, tiny fraction of the total # of Jews. The situation of a typical Jew in a shtetl was not that different than a typical overseas Chinese in Indonesia, complete with pogroms.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

    Replies: @Mr McKenna, @nebulafox, @HA, @Johann Ricke

    Re Indonesia, the Dutch governor general is said to have authorized a general massacre of ethnic Chinese in the then Dutch settlement of Batavia (now Jakarta), a few decades before the American Revolutionary War:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1740_Batavia_massacre

    ~75% of the local ethnic Chinese settlement, about 10,000 people, met their ends at the hands of Dutch-officered colonial troops. This was pretty much par for the course in terms of rebel pacification in China*, but it was unusual, for the time, in Dutch-ruled areas. The governor general responsible died after 10 years in prison, possibly as a result of the typically appalling prison conditions of the time.

    * In 1864, just before the Civil War, the Chinese general Zeng Guoquan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeng_Guoquan is said to have massacred, in Nanjing, 100,000 men, women and children to whom he had promised their lives as a condition of their surrender. He continued to be promoted until he started losing battles.

  164. @JMcG
    @Twinkie

    That was written 18 years ago. Do you seriously think that bears even a passing resemblance to the way cars are sold today? You’re a libertarian, aren’t you?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    That was written 18 years ago. Do you seriously think that bears even a passing resemblance to the way cars are sold today? You’re a libertarian, aren’t you?

    1. No, I am not.

    2. Are you dumb? The Internet sales trend has only grown since. You think Mr. Sailer too is making up a story about how his son bought his last car over the Internet?

    Geez, why do I waste my time conversing with people here.

  165. @JMcG
    @prosa123

    You are correct. Doesn’t work at all.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Nope, not at all. It’s not as if you are buying a Coke from a vending machine:

    https://designawards.core77.com/Interaction/51472/Carvana-Car-Vending-Machine

    It’s true that for everything else you buy nowadays, you comparison shop for the best price over the internet, click a few times and it’s done, but it was decreed by God that for all time you will have to shop for a car the same way you would if you were buying a rug in Baghdad circa 1200.

  166. @Bragadocious
    @Twinkie

    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.

    Anyway, "three hundred below invoice" isn't necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don't disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you're the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.

    As for me, I tend not to buy new cars. I pay cash for used. But I like e-mailing dealers from time to time -- always from a burner address.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @J.Ross

    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.

    I guess Mr. Sailer is making up his son’s story too.

    Don’t believe me. Keep going into the dealership and suffer through the bulkshit and high pressure tactics. I don’t have that kind of time. Doesn’t bother me one whit that you are a sucker who refuses to learn.

    Anyway, “three hundred below invoice” isn’t necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don’t disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you’re the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.

    You can find all that information easily down to incentives dealers give to salesmen on volume on the fricking Internet. Nothing is really undisclosed nowadays. Even Edmund’s shows manufacturer incentives that dealers used to guard. You can go even deeper on a car make enthusiast forum, and actual guys working at dealerships as sales or mechanics will spill all the beans.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    @Twinkie

    Don’t believe me. Keep going into the dealership and suffer through the bulkshit and high pressure tactics. I don’t have that kind of time. Doesn’t bother me one whit that you are a sucker who refuses to learn.

    Guess you didn't read the part about how I don't buy new cars. But, you're clearly a volume poster, so maybe you don't take the time to read.

    You can find all that information easily down to incentives dealers give to salesmen on volume on the fricking Internet. Nothing is really undisclosed nowadays

    You think so, huh? I suppose we can also get access to Pfizer's latest R&D projects and what internal sales projections are. Sure, guys on enthusiast forums have lots of "info" on dealer cost, but most of them are just guessing, or eager to let other posters know how great their "deal" is. The fact that you think "hyper-educated whites and Asians" will intimidate car dealers shows what an ignoramus you are. A buddy of mine sells used cars for a living and he tells me nerdy Asian STEM types are some of his biggest marks.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Twinkie

    I forget which website my son went through last year to buy his car, maybe Edmunds. It was surprisingly pain free. Three dealerships responded by emailing the price, two good prices, one a great price. He went to the dealership that sent the great price and the salesman who'd sent the email got him the exact car at the exact price. A very nice experience.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  167. @El Dato
    @Trevor H.


    they systematically target everyone and always have. What word should be used?
     
    "Skynetting"?

    Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers

    “Crystallizing Public Opinion”
    “Manufacturing Consent”
    “How To Win Friends and Influence People”
    “Hearts and minds”

    “If a nation expects to be ignorant & free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was & never will be.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

    ” . . . the key to all ages is—Imbecility; imbecility in the vast majority of men, at all times, and, even in heroes, in all but certain eminent moments; victims of gravity, custom, and fear. This gives force to the strong,—that the multitude have no habit of self-reliance or original action.”
    ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, “Power”

    “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”
    ~ Walt Kelly, “Pogo Possum”

    The de-Christianization of America, as described by Fred Reed here at Unz today, and by others elsewhere, has been caused by . . . Christians. Adhere to your bible instead of TV and the church will replace the mall. (Google Americans $850 Billion Christmas 2018.) Apparently, nothing is anyone’s fault. “They” are “doing something” to everyone. There are two sides to every trade. Stop buying and they’re outa bizniz.

  168. @Twinkie
    @Jack D

    I value my mechanic. He is honest and skilled. I buy parts from him and let him profit from the small markup in addition to labor. He doesn’t like customers bringing in their own parts, because he can’t ensure the quality of the said part. His parts and his labor, and he stands by them 100%.

    Replies: @Jack D

    It’s all a matter of expectations. Obviously I don’t expect my mechanic to stand behind the parts that he didn’t buy. If I get a $50 brand new Chinese CV axle over the internet instead of the $300 “rebuilt” part that the dealer stocks and it fails after a few years, I’ll pay him another $100 to hang its $50 Chinese replacement on there (and I’m still ahead).

    I get along really well with my mechanic . He has been doing this for a really long time and is not a shy guy. If he didn’t like our arrangement, he would not hesitate to tell me to go have sexual relations with myself. So I don’t know why it is that you know better than we do what is in his own best interest and mine.

    • Replies: @keuril
    @Jack D

    I don’t know why anybody would have issues with your arrangements with your mechanic, but I’m curious... it sounds like you’re a very seasoned lawyer with considerable expertise in your field. You must be able to charge, what, $400, $500 an hour? Is it worth your while to mess with penny ante stuff like this? On a dollars and cents level, it would seem you could just trade in for a new lease car every few years and not worry about $50 Chinese axels. But you’ve made a choice to do so and I’m curious about what your deeper motivation might be, as I don’t think it’s money.

    One of the interesting things about your posts is you have an ability to shift gears between very abstract topics down to, literally, turkey gizzards, and the best way to prepare them.

    Replies: @Jack D

  169. @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.
     
    I guess Mr. Sailer is making up his son’s story too.

    Don’t believe me. Keep going into the dealership and suffer through the bulkshit and high pressure tactics. I don’t have that kind of time. Doesn’t bother me one whit that you are a sucker who refuses to learn.

    Anyway, “three hundred below invoice” isn’t necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don’t disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you’re the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.
     
    You can find all that information easily down to incentives dealers give to salesmen on volume on the fricking Internet. Nothing is really undisclosed nowadays. Even Edmund’s shows manufacturer incentives that dealers used to guard. You can go even deeper on a car make enthusiast forum, and actual guys working at dealerships as sales or mechanics will spill all the beans.

    Replies: @Bragadocious, @Steve Sailer

    Don’t believe me. Keep going into the dealership and suffer through the bulkshit and high pressure tactics. I don’t have that kind of time. Doesn’t bother me one whit that you are a sucker who refuses to learn.

    Guess you didn’t read the part about how I don’t buy new cars. But, you’re clearly a volume poster, so maybe you don’t take the time to read.

    You can find all that information easily down to incentives dealers give to salesmen on volume on the fricking Internet. Nothing is really undisclosed nowadays

    You think so, huh? I suppose we can also get access to Pfizer’s latest R&D projects and what internal sales projections are. Sure, guys on enthusiast forums have lots of “info” on dealer cost, but most of them are just guessing, or eager to let other posters know how great their “deal” is. The fact that you think “hyper-educated whites and Asians” will intimidate car dealers shows what an ignoramus you are. A buddy of mine sells used cars for a living and he tells me nerdy Asian STEM types are some of his biggest marks.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    The fact that you think “hyper-educated whites and Asians” will intimidate car dealers shows what an ignoramus you are.
     
    You really are dimwitted. I never said anything about “intimidation,” stupid. Car dealers don’t want to waste time trying to hustle people who can use the internet and can do research and avoid the hustle. These aren’t the demographic that falls for dealer financing and paint protection. They also know that informed consumers will avoid such hustle shops once that reputation spreads in the community via Yelp and various HOA fora. It’s just business in the era of e-commerce. That Glengary Glen Ross act works in fooling blacks, Hispanics, and low IQ whites in Fishtown. It doesn’t fool many people in Belmont.

    Replies: @Bragadocious

  170. @Twinkie
    @J.Ross

    It’s not just Northern Europe: https://youtu.be/kWW4xzlrOWQ

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Of course, I didn’t mean to be exclusive, and thought of that as soon as I hit publish. There are a lot of northern hemisphere fairy tales that depend on a little system of gradually verifying claims. In Siberia, tribes who lived far away from one another and had no way to learn their “neighbor’s” language developed a communication-free trading system, usable on total strangers. They would leave samples, and then goods, in a “neutral” spot and watch from a “safe” place nearby. The parties would never come close enough to attack, would gain nothing from poisoning the samples, and would be able to discover weight-cheating.

  171. @Bragadocious
    @Twinkie

    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.

    Anyway, "three hundred below invoice" isn't necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don't disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you're the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.

    As for me, I tend not to buy new cars. I pay cash for used. But I like e-mailing dealers from time to time -- always from a burner address.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @J.Ross

    I don’t remember the name of the form, but you can buy a car filling out a form most car buyers never see or deal with, which lets you specify every single thing in it. This ought to control most of what a dealership sneaks in. The guy I knew who did it that way had worked on cars all his life, and had become an engineer (mostly automotive but at one point working with NASA), so he knew what all the little parts and options were. It’s not something for everybody.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @J.Ross

    Many years ago it was not unusual for a customer to custom order a car from the factory and the auto makers had hundreds of different options that you could order one by one. You can still do this if you really wanted to, except that the options usually come in "packages" and can't be ordered individually. But that's not how cars are usually sold today - you buy whatever is on the dealers lot and if the dealer doesn't have it he will have it shipped from some other dealer in the region. Most people want a car right away and not in 2 months and dealers want you to buy the car TODAY . You would think that the dealer would prefer just to take your order but they don't - they want to sell what they already have sitting on the lot and accumulating "floor plan" (interest) charges.

  172. @Bragadocious
    @Twinkie

    Don’t believe me. Keep going into the dealership and suffer through the bulkshit and high pressure tactics. I don’t have that kind of time. Doesn’t bother me one whit that you are a sucker who refuses to learn.

    Guess you didn't read the part about how I don't buy new cars. But, you're clearly a volume poster, so maybe you don't take the time to read.

    You can find all that information easily down to incentives dealers give to salesmen on volume on the fricking Internet. Nothing is really undisclosed nowadays

    You think so, huh? I suppose we can also get access to Pfizer's latest R&D projects and what internal sales projections are. Sure, guys on enthusiast forums have lots of "info" on dealer cost, but most of them are just guessing, or eager to let other posters know how great their "deal" is. The fact that you think "hyper-educated whites and Asians" will intimidate car dealers shows what an ignoramus you are. A buddy of mine sells used cars for a living and he tells me nerdy Asian STEM types are some of his biggest marks.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The fact that you think “hyper-educated whites and Asians” will intimidate car dealers shows what an ignoramus you are.

    You really are dimwitted. I never said anything about “intimidation,” stupid. Car dealers don’t want to waste time trying to hustle people who can use the internet and can do research and avoid the hustle. These aren’t the demographic that falls for dealer financing and paint protection. They also know that informed consumers will avoid such hustle shops once that reputation spreads in the community via Yelp and various HOA fora. It’s just business in the era of e-commerce. That Glengary Glen Ross act works in fooling blacks, Hispanics, and low IQ whites in Fishtown. It doesn’t fool many people in Belmont.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    @Twinkie

    Ok, let's sum up all of Twinkie's brilliant claims so far:

    - Smart whites and Asians may not "intimidate" car dealers, but they'll be tough, savvy negotiators who won't fall for the usual sales tactics. FALSE

    - Invoice price is a reliable indicator of getting a good price on a car. FALSE

    - True dealer cost is an easily located figure, if you just go to google dot com a lot. FALSE

    I'd say this Twinkie has passed its sell-by date, which is hard to do.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  173. @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    The fact that you think “hyper-educated whites and Asians” will intimidate car dealers shows what an ignoramus you are.
     
    You really are dimwitted. I never said anything about “intimidation,” stupid. Car dealers don’t want to waste time trying to hustle people who can use the internet and can do research and avoid the hustle. These aren’t the demographic that falls for dealer financing and paint protection. They also know that informed consumers will avoid such hustle shops once that reputation spreads in the community via Yelp and various HOA fora. It’s just business in the era of e-commerce. That Glengary Glen Ross act works in fooling blacks, Hispanics, and low IQ whites in Fishtown. It doesn’t fool many people in Belmont.

    Replies: @Bragadocious

    Ok, let’s sum up all of Twinkie’s brilliant claims so far:

    – Smart whites and Asians may not “intimidate” car dealers, but they’ll be tough, savvy negotiators who won’t fall for the usual sales tactics. FALSE

    – Invoice price is a reliable indicator of getting a good price on a car. FALSE

    – True dealer cost is an easily located figure, if you just go to google dot com a lot. FALSE

    I’d say this Twinkie has passed its sell-by date, which is hard to do.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious

    Stop with straw men, retard.


    - Smart whites and Asians may not “intimidate” car dealers, but they’ll be tough, savvy negotiators who won’t fall for the usual sales tactics. FALSE
     
    There is no need for negotiations, tough or otherwise, when dealers' internet departments will send you their bids.

    - Invoice price is a reliable indicator of getting a good price on a car. FALSE
     
    Never said such a thing.

    - True dealer cost is an easily located figure, if you just go to google dot com a lot. FALSE
     
    Again, not quite what I wrote. I wrote that incentives that affect actual profit level for the dealer (and take-home for salesmen) which were previously guarded are now widely available on the Internet. I gave an example of manufacturers' incentives to dealers (which dealers would never mention to the buyers), which are now clearly visible on Edmund's.

    Answer this, you moronic creep: is Mr. Sailer also lying about his son getting bids via email from three dealers?
  174. keuril says:
    @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    It's all a matter of expectations. Obviously I don't expect my mechanic to stand behind the parts that he didn't buy. If I get a $50 brand new Chinese CV axle over the internet instead of the $300 "rebuilt" part that the dealer stocks and it fails after a few years, I'll pay him another $100 to hang its $50 Chinese replacement on there (and I'm still ahead).

    I get along really well with my mechanic . He has been doing this for a really long time and is not a shy guy. If he didn't like our arrangement, he would not hesitate to tell me to go have sexual relations with myself. So I don't know why it is that you know better than we do what is in his own best interest and mine.

    Replies: @keuril

    I don’t know why anybody would have issues with your arrangements with your mechanic, but I’m curious… it sounds like you’re a very seasoned lawyer with considerable expertise in your field. You must be able to charge, what, $400, $500 an hour? Is it worth your while to mess with penny ante stuff like this? On a dollars and cents level, it would seem you could just trade in for a new lease car every few years and not worry about $50 Chinese axels. But you’ve made a choice to do so and I’m curious about what your deeper motivation might be, as I don’t think it’s money.

    One of the interesting things about your posts is you have an ability to shift gears between very abstract topics down to, literally, turkey gizzards, and the best way to prepare them.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @keuril

    You're right - it's not the money. I guess it is sort of a game - how long can I keep this car going and for how little? To me the guys who get a new car every 3 years are obnoxious - that's a waste of resources, like throwing out edible food (something else I hate). Why does Warren Buffet live in the same house he has always lived in and not in a palace fit for a Saudi prince?

    Replies: @keuril

  175. Anon[149] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s sort of like those publicly-funded add campaigns that tell you that Big Tobacco is trying to sucker you into smoking. (Never mind that they haven’t been able to even advertise for 40 years.)

    So, to be clear . . . it’s not that YOU are stupid to smoke. None of that personal responsibility victim-blaming here! Rather, you need to do what’s smart for you in order to stick it to The Man. That’s what’s important.

    I don’t know if those ads work, but they are definitely dishonest. And at least the enemy is only a corporate straw man. But when you blame another ethnic group for your own stupidity no good can come of it.

  176. @Twinkie
    @Bragadocious


    You would need to show me a real e-mail with a real price quote in it before I would come close to believing you.
     
    I guess Mr. Sailer is making up his son’s story too.

    Don’t believe me. Keep going into the dealership and suffer through the bulkshit and high pressure tactics. I don’t have that kind of time. Doesn’t bother me one whit that you are a sucker who refuses to learn.

    Anyway, “three hundred below invoice” isn’t necessarily a great deal, since lots of dealers have holdbacks they don’t disclose to the buyer. Dealer cost is the holy grail of pricing, and something they will never disclose. But you’re the street smart one, so clearly you know invoice pricing is all you need to know.
     
    You can find all that information easily down to incentives dealers give to salesmen on volume on the fricking Internet. Nothing is really undisclosed nowadays. Even Edmund’s shows manufacturer incentives that dealers used to guard. You can go even deeper on a car make enthusiast forum, and actual guys working at dealerships as sales or mechanics will spill all the beans.

    Replies: @Bragadocious, @Steve Sailer

    I forget which website my son went through last year to buy his car, maybe Edmunds. It was surprisingly pain free. Three dealerships responded by emailing the price, two good prices, one a great price. He went to the dealership that sent the great price and the salesman who’d sent the email got him the exact car at the exact price. A very nice experience.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Steve Sailer

    I directly contact the local dealers internet/fleet departments and simply state my specs, the fact that I don't wish to waste time, and that I'd buy from the lowest bid. I then let two lowest bids compete one more round. Consistently, with my last three cars, one dealership has always had the lowest prices. I exchanged exactly FOUR emails with this dealer per car - the initial query, the second round query ("There is one other dealer matching your price. Can you lower yours? If so, I'll buy from you"), my reply that I'll buy and then a follow-up after I bought where the dealer asks how happy I am with the car and would I please fill out a survey.

    It is indeed hassle-free. Why anyone would buy a car in a different way, especially sitting in a dealership listening to nonsense is beyond me.

    I've been doing this for 10+ years now. I live in one of Murray's "super zip." The dealers around here know that bullshit doesn't sell with smart buyers. I've encountered ZERO lip from the dealers when I contacted them thusly. They follow the request and promptly and politely send me the prices. I'll say it again. Dealers (esp. around here) don't make much money from selling new cars. They make money from selling over-priced service. That's why I go to a trusted independent mechanic.

    And I am getting tired of being called a liar by morons here who can't be bothered to try it out for themselves. My wife is completely right. This is a waste of time.

    Replies: @Jack D

  177. @Bragadocious
    @Twinkie

    Ok, let's sum up all of Twinkie's brilliant claims so far:

    - Smart whites and Asians may not "intimidate" car dealers, but they'll be tough, savvy negotiators who won't fall for the usual sales tactics. FALSE

    - Invoice price is a reliable indicator of getting a good price on a car. FALSE

    - True dealer cost is an easily located figure, if you just go to google dot com a lot. FALSE

    I'd say this Twinkie has passed its sell-by date, which is hard to do.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Stop with straw men, retard.

    – Smart whites and Asians may not “intimidate” car dealers, but they’ll be tough, savvy negotiators who won’t fall for the usual sales tactics. FALSE

    There is no need for negotiations, tough or otherwise, when dealers’ internet departments will send you their bids.

    – Invoice price is a reliable indicator of getting a good price on a car. FALSE

    Never said such a thing.

    – True dealer cost is an easily located figure, if you just go to google dot com a lot. FALSE

    Again, not quite what I wrote. I wrote that incentives that affect actual profit level for the dealer (and take-home for salesmen) which were previously guarded are now widely available on the Internet. I gave an example of manufacturers’ incentives to dealers (which dealers would never mention to the buyers), which are now clearly visible on Edmund’s.

    Answer this, you moronic creep: is Mr. Sailer also lying about his son getting bids via email from three dealers?

  178. @Steve Sailer
    @Twinkie

    I forget which website my son went through last year to buy his car, maybe Edmunds. It was surprisingly pain free. Three dealerships responded by emailing the price, two good prices, one a great price. He went to the dealership that sent the great price and the salesman who'd sent the email got him the exact car at the exact price. A very nice experience.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I directly contact the local dealers internet/fleet departments and simply state my specs, the fact that I don’t wish to waste time, and that I’d buy from the lowest bid. I then let two lowest bids compete one more round. Consistently, with my last three cars, one dealership has always had the lowest prices. I exchanged exactly FOUR emails with this dealer per car – the initial query, the second round query (“There is one other dealer matching your price. Can you lower yours? If so, I’ll buy from you”), my reply that I’ll buy and then a follow-up after I bought where the dealer asks how happy I am with the car and would I please fill out a survey.

    It is indeed hassle-free. Why anyone would buy a car in a different way, especially sitting in a dealership listening to nonsense is beyond me.

    I’ve been doing this for 10+ years now. I live in one of Murray’s “super zip.” The dealers around here know that bullshit doesn’t sell with smart buyers. I’ve encountered ZERO lip from the dealers when I contacted them thusly. They follow the request and promptly and politely send me the prices. I’ll say it again. Dealers (esp. around here) don’t make much money from selling new cars. They make money from selling over-priced service. That’s why I go to a trusted independent mechanic.

    And I am getting tired of being called a liar by morons here who can’t be bothered to try it out for themselves. My wife is completely right. This is a waste of time.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    You are of course correct and those who say it's impossible to buy a car on the internet are living in a time warp.

    I don't know where you are located but I would suggest perhaps broadening your search geographically within say a 75 mile radius. The dealers in superzips sometimes prefer to focus on white glove service rather than lowest price. Visiting my local Main Line Lexus dealer is like visiting a posh club with walnut paneling but they ask full price for their cars - my late FIL ended up going to a dealer about an hour away in Northern NJ that was more interested in volume. If they can poach a sale from another territory this makes them happy. Sometimes if you take the lowball quote to your local dealer they will match it (or not). Service depts. are completely separate and you have no obligation to take your car back to the selling dealer for service.

  179. @Mr. Anon
    @Jim Don Bob


    Right. That and $4 warranties on a $35 product.
     
    The warranties are an incredible scam. I recently saw somebody in the check-out line ahead of me at a low-end department store buy a warranty on an electric pancake grill.

    Do black people buy those useless warranties too? My impression is that they are more of a white thing.

    Replies: @Corn

    Adam Carolla had a riff on warranties years ago:

    “Yes sir, this a great stereo. Water proof, surge proof, radiation proof, this thing will keep blasting tunes after a nuclear war. Would you like to buy the warranty?”

    “No thanks”

    “Sir, you need to buy the warranty. This thing could explode on the drive home.”

  180. @rufus
    @Jack D

    Blacks are our people too. Taken our names and religion, worked the land for centuries.

    Set up a credit union funded by Gates, Powell, etc.

    Run it in black neighborhoods with expectations of small losses, but rigorous enforcement. Possible some will hit like micro lending did in the third world with women. Close the rest.


    Here is a great example of dredging the slums of asia importing them to the US to exploit lower income Americans with usurious loans.

    No healthy nation would ever permit much less encourage this parasite.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2018/11/01/al-goldstein-from-child-refugee-to-billion-dollar-avant/#fc30d5f5e452

    Replies: @Jack D, @Twinkie, @Anonymous

    Jim Crow banking.

  181. @keuril
    @Jack D

    I don’t know why anybody would have issues with your arrangements with your mechanic, but I’m curious... it sounds like you’re a very seasoned lawyer with considerable expertise in your field. You must be able to charge, what, $400, $500 an hour? Is it worth your while to mess with penny ante stuff like this? On a dollars and cents level, it would seem you could just trade in for a new lease car every few years and not worry about $50 Chinese axels. But you’ve made a choice to do so and I’m curious about what your deeper motivation might be, as I don’t think it’s money.

    One of the interesting things about your posts is you have an ability to shift gears between very abstract topics down to, literally, turkey gizzards, and the best way to prepare them.

    Replies: @Jack D

    You’re right – it’s not the money. I guess it is sort of a game – how long can I keep this car going and for how little? To me the guys who get a new car every 3 years are obnoxious – that’s a waste of resources, like throwing out edible food (something else I hate). Why does Warren Buffet live in the same house he has always lived in and not in a palace fit for a Saudi prince?

    • Replies: @keuril
    @Jack D


    it’s not the money. I guess it is sort of a game – how long can I keep this car going and for how little?
     
    I’m reminded of the scene at the end of the movie Memento (i.e., the last scene before the closing credits, but chronologically in the middle of the story), in which the protagonist, Leonard, burns up some of the evidence he has in his hands, with full knowledge that he himself will forget about this evidence in five minutes due to his chronic amnesia. And he does this so as to set himself on a wild goose chase to find this now-destroyed evidence in order solve the mystery he has created for himself. But he also does it to give his life meaning (as I recall there is a voiceover in this closing scene in which Leonard says as much). The irony being that the mystery itself is artificial, but the sense of purpose he derives from trying to solve it is real.

    So yes, you have set an artificial restriction on the amount of money you will spend on your car, but restrictions are a source of creativity (necessity is the mother of invention) and give our lives meaning. In the past, this might not have been much of an issue because survival itself was so hard, but nowadays, many if not most people in developed countries have to deal to some extent with the novel challenge of overabundance (obesity, e.g., being a challenge that cuts across all socioeconomic classes).

    To me the guys who get a new car every 3 years are obnoxious – that’s a waste of resources, like throwing out edible food (something else I hate). Why does Warren Buffet live in the same house he has always lived in
     
    This points to another aspect—a sense of values. A car, a house, food—the view that these are things that have an inherent value and deserve respect. Maybe it’s that Buffett is not into material things, or he’s old enough to have been influenced by the Depression, or maybe it’s that he lives in the Midwest, where people are not so much into showing off. As a kid, we moved to a new house every couple years and I found it... unsettling, unheimlich as Mark Danielewski puts in in House of Leaves. As an adult, I have lived in my own house a very long time and I feel what it is to have a home, as opposed to a house. It’s strange the way we become attached to inanimate objects that don’t care about us, but I guess this is a way of anchoring oneself to *something* in a crazy universe.
  182. @J.Ross
    @Bragadocious

    I don't remember the name of the form, but you can buy a car filling out a form most car buyers never see or deal with, which lets you specify every single thing in it. This ought to control most of what a dealership sneaks in. The guy I knew who did it that way had worked on cars all his life, and had become an engineer (mostly automotive but at one point working with NASA), so he knew what all the little parts and options were. It's not something for everybody.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Many years ago it was not unusual for a customer to custom order a car from the factory and the auto makers had hundreds of different options that you could order one by one. You can still do this if you really wanted to, except that the options usually come in “packages” and can’t be ordered individually. But that’s not how cars are usually sold today – you buy whatever is on the dealers lot and if the dealer doesn’t have it he will have it shipped from some other dealer in the region. Most people want a car right away and not in 2 months and dealers want you to buy the car TODAY . You would think that the dealer would prefer just to take your order but they don’t – they want to sell what they already have sitting on the lot and accumulating “floor plan” (interest) charges.

  183. @Twinkie
    @Steve Sailer

    I directly contact the local dealers internet/fleet departments and simply state my specs, the fact that I don't wish to waste time, and that I'd buy from the lowest bid. I then let two lowest bids compete one more round. Consistently, with my last three cars, one dealership has always had the lowest prices. I exchanged exactly FOUR emails with this dealer per car - the initial query, the second round query ("There is one other dealer matching your price. Can you lower yours? If so, I'll buy from you"), my reply that I'll buy and then a follow-up after I bought where the dealer asks how happy I am with the car and would I please fill out a survey.

    It is indeed hassle-free. Why anyone would buy a car in a different way, especially sitting in a dealership listening to nonsense is beyond me.

    I've been doing this for 10+ years now. I live in one of Murray's "super zip." The dealers around here know that bullshit doesn't sell with smart buyers. I've encountered ZERO lip from the dealers when I contacted them thusly. They follow the request and promptly and politely send me the prices. I'll say it again. Dealers (esp. around here) don't make much money from selling new cars. They make money from selling over-priced service. That's why I go to a trusted independent mechanic.

    And I am getting tired of being called a liar by morons here who can't be bothered to try it out for themselves. My wife is completely right. This is a waste of time.

    Replies: @Jack D

    You are of course correct and those who say it’s impossible to buy a car on the internet are living in a time warp.

    I don’t know where you are located but I would suggest perhaps broadening your search geographically within say a 75 mile radius. The dealers in superzips sometimes prefer to focus on white glove service rather than lowest price. Visiting my local Main Line Lexus dealer is like visiting a posh club with walnut paneling but they ask full price for their cars – my late FIL ended up going to a dealer about an hour away in Northern NJ that was more interested in volume. If they can poach a sale from another territory this makes them happy. Sometimes if you take the lowball quote to your local dealer they will match it (or not). Service depts. are completely separate and you have no obligation to take your car back to the selling dealer for service.

  184. keuril says:
    @Jack D
    @keuril

    You're right - it's not the money. I guess it is sort of a game - how long can I keep this car going and for how little? To me the guys who get a new car every 3 years are obnoxious - that's a waste of resources, like throwing out edible food (something else I hate). Why does Warren Buffet live in the same house he has always lived in and not in a palace fit for a Saudi prince?

    Replies: @keuril

    it’s not the money. I guess it is sort of a game – how long can I keep this car going and for how little?

    I’m reminded of the scene at the end of the movie Memento (i.e., the last scene before the closing credits, but chronologically in the middle of the story), in which the protagonist, Leonard, burns up some of the evidence he has in his hands, with full knowledge that he himself will forget about this evidence in five minutes due to his chronic amnesia. And he does this so as to set himself on a wild goose chase to find this now-destroyed evidence in order solve the mystery he has created for himself. But he also does it to give his life meaning (as I recall there is a voiceover in this closing scene in which Leonard says as much). The irony being that the mystery itself is artificial, but the sense of purpose he derives from trying to solve it is real.

    So yes, you have set an artificial restriction on the amount of money you will spend on your car, but restrictions are a source of creativity (necessity is the mother of invention) and give our lives meaning. In the past, this might not have been much of an issue because survival itself was so hard, but nowadays, many if not most people in developed countries have to deal to some extent with the novel challenge of overabundance (obesity, e.g., being a challenge that cuts across all socioeconomic classes).

    To me the guys who get a new car every 3 years are obnoxious – that’s a waste of resources, like throwing out edible food (something else I hate). Why does Warren Buffet live in the same house he has always lived in

    This points to another aspect—a sense of values. A car, a house, food—the view that these are things that have an inherent value and deserve respect. Maybe it’s that Buffett is not into material things, or he’s old enough to have been influenced by the Depression, or maybe it’s that he lives in the Midwest, where people are not so much into showing off. As a kid, we moved to a new house every couple years and I found it… unsettling, unheimlich as Mark Danielewski puts in in House of Leaves. As an adult, I have lived in my own house a very long time and I feel what it is to have a home, as opposed to a house. It’s strange the way we become attached to inanimate objects that don’t care about us, but I guess this is a way of anchoring oneself to *something* in a crazy universe.

  185. Consumer debt of all types, including the subprime type that toppled the economy in 2008, is at record highs. The corporate-owned media is as deceptive as usual, boasting about consumer confidence and Christmas spending, no more or less than they did under Bush II & Obama.

    It is not a party thing; it is a corporate thing. Corporate money comes before party in both parties.

    That is why voting does not matter on multiple levels, not just on the mass immigration issue, although mass immigration is part of the problem that American consumers have. In an economy where wages never rise, many people have no choice but to borrow to finance necessities, and welfare-buttressed immigration is one of the factors keeping wages perpetually suppressed.

    This time around, unlike in 2008 when it was houses, underemployed Americans of all skin-pigmentation hues cannot even afford to sustain car loans over time, hence the trillions in car loan debt, including car loans of the most predatory type.

    It is a lose-either-way catch 22 for many low-income Americans, particularly for the single, non-welfare-eligible, non-womb-producing ones—the ones constantly struggling to cover unaffordable bills on earned-only income while competing with an unending supply of welfare-qualified, womb-productive immigrants (and citizens), driving wages down.

    Underemployed mommas in single-breadwinner households supplement their inadequate wages from part time or temp jobs with about 4 layers of monthly welfare and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credit cash. The males and the childless, single women at the bottom of the wage scale do not have that option despite Trump’s ABAWD hoax.

    But they must have a vehicle to get to their next low-wage churn job—their only source of income unless they are irresponsibly pumping out welfare-fetching kids that they cannot afford to feed. For single and childless ABAWDs, the three months of EBT-only every three years that they qualify for is not worth applying for, which is why welfare is almost exclusively consumed by womb-productive citizens and noncitizens.

    Our politicians are either being intentionally deceptive about this issue, announcing indirectly through the ABAWD hoax that they intend to do nothing about welfare, or they are just ignorant—ignorant about the way means-tested welfare programs work, even though congresspeople get paid $174k to understand how government works.

    Those living on earned-only income—like almost all low-income ABAWDs—take out a loan that is structured to enslave them in insurmountable debt to ensure transport to an inadequate, and often temporary, job, which supplies a stream of income insufficient to cover rent. That in no way guarantees that the loan will be manageable over time

    Or, they don’t take out the crappy loan, skipping the churn job and the small trickle of earned income that will only cover a few monthly bills for a few months, anyway.

    It is far more rewarding to pump out kids in a single-breadwinner household, forfeiting welfare during months when you secure slightly higher paying temp jobs. Come to find out, many of Bezos’ womb-productive employees are on welfare, and the insurance back-office world, the credit processing and tax-preparation industries are full of welfare-eligible mommas.

    During tax season, many of the tax preparers processing refundable child tax credits for other single moms via software that does the calculations refrain from collecting monthly welfare, while collecting it when not working most of the year, in addition to their yearly sex-and-reproduction reward of up to $6,431 from the US Treasury Department.

    Or, they just work part time year round, staying under the income limits for multiple programs, including electricity assistance, hundreds in EBT for multiple household members, monthly cash assistance and rental assistance.

    Millions of single moms, legal and illegal immigrants use these working-the-system tactics, suggesting that they are in no way too dense to understand the nature of any loans granted by Christian-owned, Jewish-owned, Muslim-owned or Kwanzadian-owned businesses.

    Nevertheless, the welfare-eligible womb producers, like their mostly non-welfare-eligible ABAWD counterparts, simply do not have enough money to cover all basic bills off-plastic.

    Given the size of the car debt problem, many welfare-eligible citizens and noncitizens—even with their full buffet of income boosters from Uncle Sam—are still engaging in the subprime loan options.

    Of course, some of it is moms, using their ample welfare and child tax credit money on self indulgence, but just like we have to describe moms who stay under the income limits for welfare via part time or temp work as hardworking, we cannot criticize the irresponsible spending choices of womb producers in the fake-feminist era.

    When you spend your $6,431 in yearly, refundable child tax credit money on a beach trip with a boyfriend and 4 new $900 tattoos, even though your rent and grocery expenses are covered by taxpayers, putting your car loan irresponsibly on the back burner, the fact that you reproduced through the noble act of sexual intercourse ese should not exempt you from criticism.

    In fact, a parent is setting a bad example for the children in those cases, making the profligate spending worse if anything.

    Since consumer debt from multiple sources is so mountainous, with the corporate media cheering it on, some say the next hue and cry will be for a debt jubilee, particularly for the massive generation of underemployed millennial students whose student-loan debt is as high as the car debt.

    The available part time and temp jobs do not supply enough income to cover rent for many single, childless, non-welfare-eligible citizens not burdened with student loan debt, so this won’t solve the problem of indidivduals, facing insurmontable basically monthly expenses. But it is a good sales pitch for some politicians, not necessarily with groups who turn out to vote though.

    Never mind that most Gen Xers were and are every bit as underemployed, with a higher set of financial standards on their heads, in a labor market full of voted-best-for-moms jobs, catering to the young. The millennials are in prime womb-producing age. They need MOAR breaks from .gov., and the young, like the welfare-consuming crowd, vote at much higher rates than the middle-aged, right?

    Politicians completely ignore the wishes of people who actually turn out to vote for them, so just like on immigration, they will probably include all these shopaholic welfare mommas and womb-productive legal and illegal immigrants in this jubilee, citing the burden of babies and ignoring all of the many streams of unearned income that accrues to them from government to reward sex and reproduction in single-breadwinner households.

    But the rest of Americans—the non-welfare-eligible citizens—better be prepared to play by the rules, just like in workplaces where parents are above firing and exempt from the absenteeism rules in a dramatic way, whereas non parents are held to the letter in the pettiest ways possible, even when their numbers are higher than the numbers of family-friendly workers.

    The childless citizens, in particular, better be prepared to pay back any money borrowed, regardless of rates, or suffer the consequences. Those who have kids, or who will soon produce kids, will be exempt from the rules, compliments of .gov’s “working families” spoils system.

    That is a good lesson for the children.

    It matters not at all whether these childless citizens borrow seldom, and only for necessities. The people at the bottom who do the responsible thing are always punished to the max, facing lose / lose options whatever they choose to do, whereas womb producers at the bottom can borrow for frivolous and non-child-related reasons on top of their welfare consumption. It will not only be above criticism, but glorified as working families putting their kids first, even when they don’t.

    Regardless of the fact that most of them do not bother to take on the responsibility of voting, politicians will side with them every time on every matter.

    Uniparty politicians will keep right on doing this, while bragging about fake unemployment numbers, until a huge number of working-aged citizens are out of the labor force since nothing pays less in America than hard work.

    Politicians will keep on doing it until the economy crashes again.

    Then they will figure out some convoluted way to **** many of the people who bothered to vote for them, especially those at the bottom who are not pumping out a bunch of kids and collecting money for it from government while legally or illegally in this county.

    They will **** a few of the more affluent voters, too.

    My city still looks like a refugee camp. The Republican immigration plan is a jobs plan for immigrants, although they, too, are buying stuff on credit when not sending their pay out of the USA in remittances.

    The $28 billion in remittances just to Mexico—and just for the illegal aliens likewise consuming $113 billion in yearly welfare—would cover the full cost of the wall, the full $28 billion that it would take to build it.

    There are more immigrants here than ever, buying items with something, probably not on credit in the case of some groups of skilled immigrants, particularly those here to take the higher-paying minority-dominated tech industry jobs, as opposed to the low-paying minority-dominated warehouse and construction jobs.

    There appear to be more Indian nationals now than noncitizens from Latin America, but there are still many low-skill immigrants, buying things with pay-per-birth welfare, low wages from part-time / temp gigs and credit.

    Voting for the Republican half of the Uniparty has not changed this situation one bit for most cross-over voters, but somehow, I doubt these womb-productive immigrants will share in the economic pain when the debt-laden economy crashes any more than they are feeling it now.

    Maybe, when the dual-high-earner above-firing crony parents in the top 20%—enjoying their 9th family-friendly vacation per year to date—start realizing that the money they were able to save without giving up any of their many luxuries by keeping two of the few decent-paying jobs with benefits under one roof is endangered by the selective-bailout & welfare-for-womb-productivity cultures, which reward irresponsibility in some cases, they will give a care.

    Right now, they are still moralizing about non-dangerous immigrant babies and mommies pouring across the southern border without offering any of them, or any of the hundreds of thousands of homeless American citizens, shelter in their half-a-million-dollar homes or their lake houses. Hard to say whether their lake houses or their stocks are safer places to house their extra money in a house-of-cards economy, propped up in some quarters by the Federal Reserve Bank.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Endgame Napoleon

    A remittance tax on funds sent to Mexico seems like a no-brainer. You would have to make it low enough that it would be cheaper than avoiding it by sending the funds by some illegal means. I would bet that any illegal transporter would want a commission of 20 or 30% and might sometimes "forget" to send your money so if you kept the tax at say 20% ($5.6 billion/year) most people would just pay it.

    , @Art Deco
    @Endgame Napoleon

    Consumer debt of all types, including the subprime type that toppled the economy in 2008, is at record highs. The corporate-owned media is as deceptive as usual, boasting about consumer confidence and Christmas spending, no more or less than they did under Bush II & Obama.

    Subprime loans were a species of mortgage debt, not consumer debt. IIRC, about 16% of the outstanding loan balances consisted of subprime and Alt-A loans as of 2008. The bulk of the negative equity in the housing market in 2009 was derived from prime loans.

    In regard to consumer debt the Federal Reserve publishes data. Consumer debt service (and that includes interest charges on outstanding balanaces and principal retirement) currently accounts for 5.6% of household incomes. That is not a 'record high'. The median figure for the period since 1979 is 5.68% of household incomes. The ratio of outstanding consumer debt to personal income is currently 0.22. In 2013, it averaged 0.218. In 2008, it was .206. In 2003, the ratio was 0.219. In 1997, the ratio was 0.174. In 1991, it was 0.154.

    , @Art Deco
    @Endgame Napoleon

    The available part time and temp jobs do not supply enough income to cover rent for many single, childless, non-welfare-eligible citizens not burdened with student loan debt, so this won’t solve the problem of indidivduals, facing insurmontable basically monthly expenses. But it is a good sales pitch for some politicians, not necessarily with groups who turn out to vote though.

    Again, the ratio of employed persons to the population over 16 is currently 0.606. The median figure for the period running from 1975 to the present is 0.61. Mean annual compensation per worker has been as follows:

    1975: $12,000 ($43,ooo in 2012$)
    1983: $22,000 ($45,000 in 2012$)
    1991: $32,000 ($48,000 in 2012$)
    2001: $45,000 ($57,000 in 2012$)
    2009: $59,000 ($63,000 in 2012$)
    2017: $70,000 ($67,000 in 2012$).

  186. @Endgame Napoleon
    Consumer debt of all types, including the subprime type that toppled the economy in 2008, is at record highs. The corporate-owned media is as deceptive as usual, boasting about consumer confidence and Christmas spending, no more or less than they did under Bush II & Obama.

    It is not a party thing; it is a corporate thing. Corporate money comes before party in both parties.

    That is why voting does not matter on multiple levels, not just on the mass immigration issue, although mass immigration is part of the problem that American consumers have. In an economy where wages never rise, many people have no choice but to borrow to finance necessities, and welfare-buttressed immigration is one of the factors keeping wages perpetually suppressed.

    This time around, unlike in 2008 when it was houses, underemployed Americans of all skin-pigmentation hues cannot even afford to sustain car loans over time, hence the trillions in car loan debt, including car loans of the most predatory type.

    It is a lose-either-way catch 22 for many low-income Americans, particularly for the single, non-welfare-eligible, non-womb-producing ones—the ones constantly struggling to cover unaffordable bills on earned-only income while competing with an unending supply of welfare-qualified, womb-productive immigrants (and citizens), driving wages down.

    Underemployed mommas in single-breadwinner households supplement their inadequate wages from part time or temp jobs with about 4 layers of monthly welfare and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credit cash. The males and the childless, single women at the bottom of the wage scale do not have that option despite Trump’s ABAWD hoax.

    But they must have a vehicle to get to their next low-wage churn job—their only source of income unless they are irresponsibly pumping out welfare-fetching kids that they cannot afford to feed. For single and childless ABAWDs, the three months of EBT-only every three years that they qualify for is not worth applying for, which is why welfare is almost exclusively consumed by womb-productive citizens and noncitizens.

    Our politicians are either being intentionally deceptive about this issue, announcing indirectly through the ABAWD hoax that they intend to do nothing about welfare, or they are just ignorant—ignorant about the way means-tested welfare programs work, even though congresspeople get paid $174k to understand how government works.

    Those living on earned-only income—like almost all low-income ABAWDs—take out a loan that is structured to enslave them in insurmountable debt to ensure transport to an inadequate, and often temporary, job, which supplies a stream of income insufficient to cover rent. That in no way guarantees that the loan will be manageable over time

    Or, they don’t take out the crappy loan, skipping the churn job and the small trickle of earned income that will only cover a few monthly bills for a few months, anyway.

    It is far more rewarding to pump out kids in a single-breadwinner household, forfeiting welfare during months when you secure slightly higher paying temp jobs. Come to find out, many of Bezos’ womb-productive employees are on welfare, and the insurance back-office world, the credit processing and tax-preparation industries are full of welfare-eligible mommas.

    During tax season, many of the tax preparers processing refundable child tax credits for other single moms via software that does the calculations refrain from collecting monthly welfare, while collecting it when not working most of the year, in addition to their yearly sex-and-reproduction reward of up to $6,431 from the US Treasury Department.

    Or, they just work part time year round, staying under the income limits for multiple programs, including electricity assistance, hundreds in EBT for multiple household members, monthly cash assistance and rental assistance.

    Millions of single moms, legal and illegal immigrants use these working-the-system tactics, suggesting that they are in no way too dense to understand the nature of any loans granted by Christian-owned, Jewish-owned, Muslim-owned or Kwanzadian-owned businesses.

    Nevertheless, the welfare-eligible womb producers, like their mostly non-welfare-eligible ABAWD counterparts, simply do not have enough money to cover all basic bills off-plastic.

    Given the size of the car debt problem, many welfare-eligible citizens and noncitizens—even with their full buffet of income boosters from Uncle Sam—are still engaging in the subprime loan options.

    Of course, some of it is moms, using their ample welfare and child tax credit money on self indulgence, but just like we have to describe moms who stay under the income limits for welfare via part time or temp work as hardworking, we cannot criticize the irresponsible spending choices of womb producers in the fake-feminist era.

    When you spend your $6,431 in yearly, refundable child tax credit money on a beach trip with a boyfriend and 4 new $900 tattoos, even though your rent and grocery expenses are covered by taxpayers, putting your car loan irresponsibly on the back burner, the fact that you reproduced through the noble act of sexual intercourse ese should not exempt you from criticism.

    In fact, a parent is setting a bad example for the children in those cases, making the profligate spending worse if anything.

    Since consumer debt from multiple sources is so mountainous, with the corporate media cheering it on, some say the next hue and cry will be for a debt jubilee, particularly for the massive generation of underemployed millennial students whose student-loan debt is as high as the car debt.

    The available part time and temp jobs do not supply enough income to cover rent for many single, childless, non-welfare-eligible citizens not burdened with student loan debt, so this won’t solve the problem of indidivduals, facing insurmontable basically monthly expenses. But it is a good sales pitch for some politicians, not necessarily with groups who turn out to vote though.

    Never mind that most Gen Xers were and are every bit as underemployed, with a higher set of financial standards on their heads, in a labor market full of voted-best-for-moms jobs, catering to the young. The millennials are in prime womb-producing age. They need MOAR breaks from .gov., and the young, like the welfare-consuming crowd, vote at much higher rates than the middle-aged, right?

    Politicians completely ignore the wishes of people who actually turn out to vote for them, so just like on immigration, they will probably include all these shopaholic welfare mommas and womb-productive legal and illegal immigrants in this jubilee, citing the burden of babies and ignoring all of the many streams of unearned income that accrues to them from government to reward sex and reproduction in single-breadwinner households.

    But the rest of Americans—the non-welfare-eligible citizens—better be prepared to play by the rules, just like in workplaces where parents are above firing and exempt from the absenteeism rules in a dramatic way, whereas non parents are held to the letter in the pettiest ways possible, even when their numbers are higher than the numbers of family-friendly workers.

    The childless citizens, in particular, better be prepared to pay back any money borrowed, regardless of rates, or suffer the consequences. Those who have kids, or who will soon produce kids, will be exempt from the rules, compliments of .gov’s “working families” spoils system.

    That is a good lesson for the children.

    It matters not at all whether these childless citizens borrow seldom, and only for necessities. The people at the bottom who do the responsible thing are always punished to the max, facing lose / lose options whatever they choose to do, whereas womb producers at the bottom can borrow for frivolous and non-child-related reasons on top of their welfare consumption. It will not only be above criticism, but glorified as working families putting their kids first, even when they don’t.

    Regardless of the fact that most of them do not bother to take on the responsibility of voting, politicians will side with them every time on every matter.

    Uniparty politicians will keep right on doing this, while bragging about fake unemployment numbers, until a huge number of working-aged citizens are out of the labor force since nothing pays less in America than hard work.

    Politicians will keep on doing it until the economy crashes again.

    Then they will figure out some convoluted way to **** many of the people who bothered to vote for them, especially those at the bottom who are not pumping out a bunch of kids and collecting money for it from government while legally or illegally in this county.

    They will **** a few of the more affluent voters, too.

    My city still looks like a refugee camp. The Republican immigration plan is a jobs plan for immigrants, although they, too, are buying stuff on credit when not sending their pay out of the USA in remittances.

    The $28 billion in remittances just to Mexico—and just for the illegal aliens likewise consuming $113 billion in yearly welfare—would cover the full cost of the wall, the full $28 billion that it would take to build it.

    There are more immigrants here than ever, buying items with something, probably not on credit in the case of some groups of skilled immigrants, particularly those here to take the higher-paying minority-dominated tech industry jobs, as opposed to the low-paying minority-dominated warehouse and construction jobs.

    There appear to be more Indian nationals now than noncitizens from Latin America, but there are still many low-skill immigrants, buying things with pay-per-birth welfare, low wages from part-time / temp gigs and credit.

    Voting for the Republican half of the Uniparty has not changed this situation one bit for most cross-over voters, but somehow, I doubt these womb-productive immigrants will share in the economic pain when the debt-laden economy crashes any more than they are feeling it now.

    Maybe, when the dual-high-earner above-firing crony parents in the top 20%—enjoying their 9th family-friendly vacation per year to date—start realizing that the money they were able to save without giving up any of their many luxuries by keeping two of the few decent-paying jobs with benefits under one roof is endangered by the selective-bailout & welfare-for-womb-productivity cultures, which reward irresponsibility in some cases, they will give a care.

    Right now, they are still moralizing about non-dangerous immigrant babies and mommies pouring across the southern border without offering any of them, or any of the hundreds of thousands of homeless American citizens, shelter in their half-a-million-dollar homes or their lake houses. Hard to say whether their lake houses or their stocks are safer places to house their extra money in a house-of-cards economy, propped up in some quarters by the Federal Reserve Bank.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco, @Art Deco

    A remittance tax on funds sent to Mexico seems like a no-brainer. You would have to make it low enough that it would be cheaper than avoiding it by sending the funds by some illegal means. I would bet that any illegal transporter would want a commission of 20 or 30% and might sometimes “forget” to send your money so if you kept the tax at say 20% ($5.6 billion/year) most people would just pay it.

  187. @Known Fact
    @Anonym

    You work your life away and what do they give?
    You're only killing yourself to live
    Killing yourself to live

    Replies: @Anonym

    Best Sabbath album IMO, at least with Ozzy. Heaven and Hell would be a contender for best metal song of all time.

    As far as other songs on that album, National Acrobat, Sabra Cadabra, Spiral Architect and strangely, Fluff are my favorites. I know the latter is their commentary on insipid mainstream “fluff” of the time, but hey, I like it.

  188. @Endgame Napoleon
    Consumer debt of all types, including the subprime type that toppled the economy in 2008, is at record highs. The corporate-owned media is as deceptive as usual, boasting about consumer confidence and Christmas spending, no more or less than they did under Bush II & Obama.

    It is not a party thing; it is a corporate thing. Corporate money comes before party in both parties.

    That is why voting does not matter on multiple levels, not just on the mass immigration issue, although mass immigration is part of the problem that American consumers have. In an economy where wages never rise, many people have no choice but to borrow to finance necessities, and welfare-buttressed immigration is one of the factors keeping wages perpetually suppressed.

    This time around, unlike in 2008 when it was houses, underemployed Americans of all skin-pigmentation hues cannot even afford to sustain car loans over time, hence the trillions in car loan debt, including car loans of the most predatory type.

    It is a lose-either-way catch 22 for many low-income Americans, particularly for the single, non-welfare-eligible, non-womb-producing ones—the ones constantly struggling to cover unaffordable bills on earned-only income while competing with an unending supply of welfare-qualified, womb-productive immigrants (and citizens), driving wages down.

    Underemployed mommas in single-breadwinner households supplement their inadequate wages from part time or temp jobs with about 4 layers of monthly welfare and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credit cash. The males and the childless, single women at the bottom of the wage scale do not have that option despite Trump’s ABAWD hoax.

    But they must have a vehicle to get to their next low-wage churn job—their only source of income unless they are irresponsibly pumping out welfare-fetching kids that they cannot afford to feed. For single and childless ABAWDs, the three months of EBT-only every three years that they qualify for is not worth applying for, which is why welfare is almost exclusively consumed by womb-productive citizens and noncitizens.

    Our politicians are either being intentionally deceptive about this issue, announcing indirectly through the ABAWD hoax that they intend to do nothing about welfare, or they are just ignorant—ignorant about the way means-tested welfare programs work, even though congresspeople get paid $174k to understand how government works.

    Those living on earned-only income—like almost all low-income ABAWDs—take out a loan that is structured to enslave them in insurmountable debt to ensure transport to an inadequate, and often temporary, job, which supplies a stream of income insufficient to cover rent. That in no way guarantees that the loan will be manageable over time

    Or, they don’t take out the crappy loan, skipping the churn job and the small trickle of earned income that will only cover a few monthly bills for a few months, anyway.

    It is far more rewarding to pump out kids in a single-breadwinner household, forfeiting welfare during months when you secure slightly higher paying temp jobs. Come to find out, many of Bezos’ womb-productive employees are on welfare, and the insurance back-office world, the credit processing and tax-preparation industries are full of welfare-eligible mommas.

    During tax season, many of the tax preparers processing refundable child tax credits for other single moms via software that does the calculations refrain from collecting monthly welfare, while collecting it when not working most of the year, in addition to their yearly sex-and-reproduction reward of up to $6,431 from the US Treasury Department.

    Or, they just work part time year round, staying under the income limits for multiple programs, including electricity assistance, hundreds in EBT for multiple household members, monthly cash assistance and rental assistance.

    Millions of single moms, legal and illegal immigrants use these working-the-system tactics, suggesting that they are in no way too dense to understand the nature of any loans granted by Christian-owned, Jewish-owned, Muslim-owned or Kwanzadian-owned businesses.

    Nevertheless, the welfare-eligible womb producers, like their mostly non-welfare-eligible ABAWD counterparts, simply do not have enough money to cover all basic bills off-plastic.

    Given the size of the car debt problem, many welfare-eligible citizens and noncitizens—even with their full buffet of income boosters from Uncle Sam—are still engaging in the subprime loan options.

    Of course, some of it is moms, using their ample welfare and child tax credit money on self indulgence, but just like we have to describe moms who stay under the income limits for welfare via part time or temp work as hardworking, we cannot criticize the irresponsible spending choices of womb producers in the fake-feminist era.

    When you spend your $6,431 in yearly, refundable child tax credit money on a beach trip with a boyfriend and 4 new $900 tattoos, even though your rent and grocery expenses are covered by taxpayers, putting your car loan irresponsibly on the back burner, the fact that you reproduced through the noble act of sexual intercourse ese should not exempt you from criticism.

    In fact, a parent is setting a bad example for the children in those cases, making the profligate spending worse if anything.

    Since consumer debt from multiple sources is so mountainous, with the corporate media cheering it on, some say the next hue and cry will be for a debt jubilee, particularly for the massive generation of underemployed millennial students whose student-loan debt is as high as the car debt.

    The available part time and temp jobs do not supply enough income to cover rent for many single, childless, non-welfare-eligible citizens not burdened with student loan debt, so this won’t solve the problem of indidivduals, facing insurmontable basically monthly expenses. But it is a good sales pitch for some politicians, not necessarily with groups who turn out to vote though.

    Never mind that most Gen Xers were and are every bit as underemployed, with a higher set of financial standards on their heads, in a labor market full of voted-best-for-moms jobs, catering to the young. The millennials are in prime womb-producing age. They need MOAR breaks from .gov., and the young, like the welfare-consuming crowd, vote at much higher rates than the middle-aged, right?

    Politicians completely ignore the wishes of people who actually turn out to vote for them, so just like on immigration, they will probably include all these shopaholic welfare mommas and womb-productive legal and illegal immigrants in this jubilee, citing the burden of babies and ignoring all of the many streams of unearned income that accrues to them from government to reward sex and reproduction in single-breadwinner households.

    But the rest of Americans—the non-welfare-eligible citizens—better be prepared to play by the rules, just like in workplaces where parents are above firing and exempt from the absenteeism rules in a dramatic way, whereas non parents are held to the letter in the pettiest ways possible, even when their numbers are higher than the numbers of family-friendly workers.

    The childless citizens, in particular, better be prepared to pay back any money borrowed, regardless of rates, or suffer the consequences. Those who have kids, or who will soon produce kids, will be exempt from the rules, compliments of .gov’s “working families” spoils system.

    That is a good lesson for the children.

    It matters not at all whether these childless citizens borrow seldom, and only for necessities. The people at the bottom who do the responsible thing are always punished to the max, facing lose / lose options whatever they choose to do, whereas womb producers at the bottom can borrow for frivolous and non-child-related reasons on top of their welfare consumption. It will not only be above criticism, but glorified as working families putting their kids first, even when they don’t.

    Regardless of the fact that most of them do not bother to take on the responsibility of voting, politicians will side with them every time on every matter.

    Uniparty politicians will keep right on doing this, while bragging about fake unemployment numbers, until a huge number of working-aged citizens are out of the labor force since nothing pays less in America than hard work.

    Politicians will keep on doing it until the economy crashes again.

    Then they will figure out some convoluted way to **** many of the people who bothered to vote for them, especially those at the bottom who are not pumping out a bunch of kids and collecting money for it from government while legally or illegally in this county.

    They will **** a few of the more affluent voters, too.

    My city still looks like a refugee camp. The Republican immigration plan is a jobs plan for immigrants, although they, too, are buying stuff on credit when not sending their pay out of the USA in remittances.

    The $28 billion in remittances just to Mexico—and just for the illegal aliens likewise consuming $113 billion in yearly welfare—would cover the full cost of the wall, the full $28 billion that it would take to build it.

    There are more immigrants here than ever, buying items with something, probably not on credit in the case of some groups of skilled immigrants, particularly those here to take the higher-paying minority-dominated tech industry jobs, as opposed to the low-paying minority-dominated warehouse and construction jobs.

    There appear to be more Indian nationals now than noncitizens from Latin America, but there are still many low-skill immigrants, buying things with pay-per-birth welfare, low wages from part-time / temp gigs and credit.

    Voting for the Republican half of the Uniparty has not changed this situation one bit for most cross-over voters, but somehow, I doubt these womb-productive immigrants will share in the economic pain when the debt-laden economy crashes any more than they are feeling it now.

    Maybe, when the dual-high-earner above-firing crony parents in the top 20%—enjoying their 9th family-friendly vacation per year to date—start realizing that the money they were able to save without giving up any of their many luxuries by keeping two of the few decent-paying jobs with benefits under one roof is endangered by the selective-bailout & welfare-for-womb-productivity cultures, which reward irresponsibility in some cases, they will give a care.

    Right now, they are still moralizing about non-dangerous immigrant babies and mommies pouring across the southern border without offering any of them, or any of the hundreds of thousands of homeless American citizens, shelter in their half-a-million-dollar homes or their lake houses. Hard to say whether their lake houses or their stocks are safer places to house their extra money in a house-of-cards economy, propped up in some quarters by the Federal Reserve Bank.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco, @Art Deco

    Consumer debt of all types, including the subprime type that toppled the economy in 2008, is at record highs. The corporate-owned media is as deceptive as usual, boasting about consumer confidence and Christmas spending, no more or less than they did under Bush II & Obama.

    Subprime loans were a species of mortgage debt, not consumer debt. IIRC, about 16% of the outstanding loan balances consisted of subprime and Alt-A loans as of 2008. The bulk of the negative equity in the housing market in 2009 was derived from prime loans.

    In regard to consumer debt the Federal Reserve publishes data. Consumer debt service (and that includes interest charges on outstanding balanaces and principal retirement) currently accounts for 5.6% of household incomes. That is not a ‘record high’. The median figure for the period since 1979 is 5.68% of household incomes. The ratio of outstanding consumer debt to personal income is currently 0.22. In 2013, it averaged 0.218. In 2008, it was .206. In 2003, the ratio was 0.219. In 1997, the ratio was 0.174. In 1991, it was 0.154.

  189. @Endgame Napoleon
    Consumer debt of all types, including the subprime type that toppled the economy in 2008, is at record highs. The corporate-owned media is as deceptive as usual, boasting about consumer confidence and Christmas spending, no more or less than they did under Bush II & Obama.

    It is not a party thing; it is a corporate thing. Corporate money comes before party in both parties.

    That is why voting does not matter on multiple levels, not just on the mass immigration issue, although mass immigration is part of the problem that American consumers have. In an economy where wages never rise, many people have no choice but to borrow to finance necessities, and welfare-buttressed immigration is one of the factors keeping wages perpetually suppressed.

    This time around, unlike in 2008 when it was houses, underemployed Americans of all skin-pigmentation hues cannot even afford to sustain car loans over time, hence the trillions in car loan debt, including car loans of the most predatory type.

    It is a lose-either-way catch 22 for many low-income Americans, particularly for the single, non-welfare-eligible, non-womb-producing ones—the ones constantly struggling to cover unaffordable bills on earned-only income while competing with an unending supply of welfare-qualified, womb-productive immigrants (and citizens), driving wages down.

    Underemployed mommas in single-breadwinner households supplement their inadequate wages from part time or temp jobs with about 4 layers of monthly welfare and up to $6,431 in refundable child tax credit cash. The males and the childless, single women at the bottom of the wage scale do not have that option despite Trump’s ABAWD hoax.

    But they must have a vehicle to get to their next low-wage churn job—their only source of income unless they are irresponsibly pumping out welfare-fetching kids that they cannot afford to feed. For single and childless ABAWDs, the three months of EBT-only every three years that they qualify for is not worth applying for, which is why welfare is almost exclusively consumed by womb-productive citizens and noncitizens.

    Our politicians are either being intentionally deceptive about this issue, announcing indirectly through the ABAWD hoax that they intend to do nothing about welfare, or they are just ignorant—ignorant about the way means-tested welfare programs work, even though congresspeople get paid $174k to understand how government works.

    Those living on earned-only income—like almost all low-income ABAWDs—take out a loan that is structured to enslave them in insurmountable debt to ensure transport to an inadequate, and often temporary, job, which supplies a stream of income insufficient to cover rent. That in no way guarantees that the loan will be manageable over time

    Or, they don’t take out the crappy loan, skipping the churn job and the small trickle of earned income that will only cover a few monthly bills for a few months, anyway.

    It is far more rewarding to pump out kids in a single-breadwinner household, forfeiting welfare during months when you secure slightly higher paying temp jobs. Come to find out, many of Bezos’ womb-productive employees are on welfare, and the insurance back-office world, the credit processing and tax-preparation industries are full of welfare-eligible mommas.

    During tax season, many of the tax preparers processing refundable child tax credits for other single moms via software that does the calculations refrain from collecting monthly welfare, while collecting it when not working most of the year, in addition to their yearly sex-and-reproduction reward of up to $6,431 from the US Treasury Department.

    Or, they just work part time year round, staying under the income limits for multiple programs, including electricity assistance, hundreds in EBT for multiple household members, monthly cash assistance and rental assistance.

    Millions of single moms, legal and illegal immigrants use these working-the-system tactics, suggesting that they are in no way too dense to understand the nature of any loans granted by Christian-owned, Jewish-owned, Muslim-owned or Kwanzadian-owned businesses.

    Nevertheless, the welfare-eligible womb producers, like their mostly non-welfare-eligible ABAWD counterparts, simply do not have enough money to cover all basic bills off-plastic.

    Given the size of the car debt problem, many welfare-eligible citizens and noncitizens—even with their full buffet of income boosters from Uncle Sam—are still engaging in the subprime loan options.

    Of course, some of it is moms, using their ample welfare and child tax credit money on self indulgence, but just like we have to describe moms who stay under the income limits for welfare via part time or temp work as hardworking, we cannot criticize the irresponsible spending choices of womb producers in the fake-feminist era.

    When you spend your $6,431 in yearly, refundable child tax credit money on a beach trip with a boyfriend and 4 new $900 tattoos, even though your rent and grocery expenses are covered by taxpayers, putting your car loan irresponsibly on the back burner, the fact that you reproduced through the noble act of sexual intercourse ese should not exempt you from criticism.

    In fact, a parent is setting a bad example for the children in those cases, making the profligate spending worse if anything.

    Since consumer debt from multiple sources is so mountainous, with the corporate media cheering it on, some say the next hue and cry will be for a debt jubilee, particularly for the massive generation of underemployed millennial students whose student-loan debt is as high as the car debt.

    The available part time and temp jobs do not supply enough income to cover rent for many single, childless, non-welfare-eligible citizens not burdened with student loan debt, so this won’t solve the problem of indidivduals, facing insurmontable basically monthly expenses. But it is a good sales pitch for some politicians, not necessarily with groups who turn out to vote though.

    Never mind that most Gen Xers were and are every bit as underemployed, with a higher set of financial standards on their heads, in a labor market full of voted-best-for-moms jobs, catering to the young. The millennials are in prime womb-producing age. They need MOAR breaks from .gov., and the young, like the welfare-consuming crowd, vote at much higher rates than the middle-aged, right?

    Politicians completely ignore the wishes of people who actually turn out to vote for them, so just like on immigration, they will probably include all these shopaholic welfare mommas and womb-productive legal and illegal immigrants in this jubilee, citing the burden of babies and ignoring all of the many streams of unearned income that accrues to them from government to reward sex and reproduction in single-breadwinner households.

    But the rest of Americans—the non-welfare-eligible citizens—better be prepared to play by the rules, just like in workplaces where parents are above firing and exempt from the absenteeism rules in a dramatic way, whereas non parents are held to the letter in the pettiest ways possible, even when their numbers are higher than the numbers of family-friendly workers.

    The childless citizens, in particular, better be prepared to pay back any money borrowed, regardless of rates, or suffer the consequences. Those who have kids, or who will soon produce kids, will be exempt from the rules, compliments of .gov’s “working families” spoils system.

    That is a good lesson for the children.

    It matters not at all whether these childless citizens borrow seldom, and only for necessities. The people at the bottom who do the responsible thing are always punished to the max, facing lose / lose options whatever they choose to do, whereas womb producers at the bottom can borrow for frivolous and non-child-related reasons on top of their welfare consumption. It will not only be above criticism, but glorified as working families putting their kids first, even when they don’t.

    Regardless of the fact that most of them do not bother to take on the responsibility of voting, politicians will side with them every time on every matter.

    Uniparty politicians will keep right on doing this, while bragging about fake unemployment numbers, until a huge number of working-aged citizens are out of the labor force since nothing pays less in America than hard work.

    Politicians will keep on doing it until the economy crashes again.

    Then they will figure out some convoluted way to **** many of the people who bothered to vote for them, especially those at the bottom who are not pumping out a bunch of kids and collecting money for it from government while legally or illegally in this county.

    They will **** a few of the more affluent voters, too.

    My city still looks like a refugee camp. The Republican immigration plan is a jobs plan for immigrants, although they, too, are buying stuff on credit when not sending their pay out of the USA in remittances.

    The $28 billion in remittances just to Mexico—and just for the illegal aliens likewise consuming $113 billion in yearly welfare—would cover the full cost of the wall, the full $28 billion that it would take to build it.

    There are more immigrants here than ever, buying items with something, probably not on credit in the case of some groups of skilled immigrants, particularly those here to take the higher-paying minority-dominated tech industry jobs, as opposed to the low-paying minority-dominated warehouse and construction jobs.

    There appear to be more Indian nationals now than noncitizens from Latin America, but there are still many low-skill immigrants, buying things with pay-per-birth welfare, low wages from part-time / temp gigs and credit.

    Voting for the Republican half of the Uniparty has not changed this situation one bit for most cross-over voters, but somehow, I doubt these womb-productive immigrants will share in the economic pain when the debt-laden economy crashes any more than they are feeling it now.

    Maybe, when the dual-high-earner above-firing crony parents in the top 20%—enjoying their 9th family-friendly vacation per year to date—start realizing that the money they were able to save without giving up any of their many luxuries by keeping two of the few decent-paying jobs with benefits under one roof is endangered by the selective-bailout & welfare-for-womb-productivity cultures, which reward irresponsibility in some cases, they will give a care.

    Right now, they are still moralizing about non-dangerous immigrant babies and mommies pouring across the southern border without offering any of them, or any of the hundreds of thousands of homeless American citizens, shelter in their half-a-million-dollar homes or their lake houses. Hard to say whether their lake houses or their stocks are safer places to house their extra money in a house-of-cards economy, propped up in some quarters by the Federal Reserve Bank.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Art Deco, @Art Deco

    The available part time and temp jobs do not supply enough income to cover rent for many single, childless, non-welfare-eligible citizens not burdened with student loan debt, so this won’t solve the problem of indidivduals, facing insurmontable basically monthly expenses. But it is a good sales pitch for some politicians, not necessarily with groups who turn out to vote though.

    Again, the ratio of employed persons to the population over 16 is currently 0.606. The median figure for the period running from 1975 to the present is 0.61. Mean annual compensation per worker has been as follows:

    1975: $12,000 ($43,ooo in 2012$)
    1983: $22,000 ($45,000 in 2012$)
    1991: $32,000 ($48,000 in 2012$)
    2001: $45,000 ($57,000 in 2012$)
    2009: $59,000 ($63,000 in 2012$)
    2017: $70,000 ($67,000 in 2012$).

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