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Brett Kavanaugh is quite Irish Catholic. Kavanaugh means “student of Kevin” going back to St. Kevin. His basketball coach at Georgetown Prep was Kevin Dowd, the Republican brother of New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd. (Kevin annually writes one of Maureen’s columns and is really good at it. I’m looking forward to what Kevin Dowd has to say this year.)

The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness. Thus, Jewish pundits have tended to be particularly outraged by Kavanaugh’s contention that he has never drunk so much that he lost recollection.

In reality, some drunk people forget, like in The Hangover, other drunk people remember every embarrassing detail.

Stereotypes about Irish Catholic Guilt haven’t played much of a role in this story, however, because it would be inconvenient for The Narrative. Interestingly, the late Tom Wolfe’s The Bonfire of the Vanities brings up Irish Guilt in relation to the hunt for the Great White Defendant.

Three Bronx assistant District Attorneys — Ray Andriutti, Jimmy Caughey, and Larry Kramer (the indirect narrator) — discuss elected head D.A. Abe Weiss’s current obsession with the Moore case, in which an unemployed corporate executive in the nice Riverdale suburb of the Bronx shot his mother-in-law. Weiss was hoping that Moore would be a Great White Defendant, but, unfortunately, he immediately confessed:

An assistant D.A. in Major Offenses has started calling Abe Weiss “Captain Ahab,” and now they all did. Weiss was notorious in his obsession for publicity, even among a breed, the district attorney, that was publicity-mad by nature. …

[Kramer:] “Why was Weiss interested?”

[Caughey:] “Well, the guy’s white, he’s got some money, he lives in a big house in Riverdale. It looks at first like maybe he’s gonna fake an accidental shooting.”

[Kramer:] “Is that possible?”

[Caughey:] “Naw. Fucking guy’s one a my boys. He’s your basic Irish who made good, but he’s still a Harp. He’s drowning in remorse. You’d think he shot his own mother, he feels so fucking guilty. Right now he’d confess to anything. Bernie could sit him in front of the video camera and clean up every homicide in the Bronx for the past five years. Naw, it’s a piece a shit, but it looked good at first.”

Kramer and Andriutti contemplated this piece a shit without needing any amplification. Every assistant D.A. in the Bronx, from the youngest Italian just out of St. John’s Law School to the oldest Irish bureau chief, who would be somebody like Bernie Fitzgibbon, who was forty-two, shared Captain Ahab’s mania for the Great White Defendant. For a start, it was not pleasant to go through life telling yourself, “What I do for a living is, I pack blacks and Latins off to jail.” Kramer had been raised as a liberal. In Jewish families like his, liberalism came with the Similac and the Mott’s apple juice and the Instamatic and Daddy’s grins in the evening. And even the Italians, like Ray Andriutti, and the Irish, like Jimmy Caughey, who were not exactly burdened with liberalism by their parents, couldn’t help but be affected by the mental atmosphere of the law schools, where, for one thing, there were so many Jewish faculty members. By the time you finished law school in the New York area, it was, well … impolite! … on the ordinary social level … to go around making jokes about the yoms. It wasn’t that it was morally wrong … It was that it was in bad taste. So it made the boys uneasy, this eternal prosecution of the blacks and Latins.

Not that they weren’t guilty. …

 
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  1. Tom Wolfe’s world almost seems quaint now.
    He’s lucky to have taken leave.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    It doesn’t seem quaint, because the same dynamic applies today. The difference today is that the Bronx D.A. looks like this, but Wolfe predicted that too. His assistant D.A.’s in Bonfire lament that they’ll never get the opportunity to climb the pyramid because the NAMs will take over the elected leadership before then.
  2. The Kennedys don’t appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    • Agree: AndrewR, Cagey Beast
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    We Irish Catholics believe deeply in Karma and that the sin will catch up with us. I’m sure there are enough Dead Kennedys to basically prove this right.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    No - using the top oligarchs for your example isn't accurate.

    My father's family for example, is a great example of Irish Catholic guilt. The old man is the oldest of 12, born in 1944, so my grandmother was basically pregnant for 16 years until the youngest came in 1960. 6 boys and 6 girls. They lived in Evanston growing up, that is, until Evanston was diversified in the 80's and 90's. They have all since moved to less diverse towns (Glencoe, Woodstock, Wheaton, Skokie)/N by NW Chicago neighborhoods (my old man and the next oldest brother have been retired to state tax-less Florida, and more will follow), where at the reunions they prattle on about equality and racism and taxing the rich while making sure to not live anywhere near blacks and browns. Two of the sisters were never married and had no kids, 4 of them became public school teachers and another one moved to Seattle (one of the unmarried ones) where she is some sort of director for the city art museum or something. The men all married but they are all Daley Democrats through and through. All but 2 were Vietnam War age but only one was drafted and served in Vietnam.

    There are 36 grandkids and they are are all, save myself, standard issue gen-x/early millennial lockstep progressive bots. I sometimes expect them to all speak in unison. I am the only one who joined the military out the 36.
    , @Gordo
    Yep, pretty much true, beyond the pale.
    , @Art Deco
    Mayor Daley was a daily communicant and most devoted husband and father. He lived in the same house from 1939 until his death (it had some additions, as you might expect of a family with seven children; it was in the Bridgeport neighborhood, where he'd grown up). A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket. His sons are all over 70 now. If I'm not mistaken, they've each been married just once. One of the Daley sisters was a spinster. The other six Daley children had a mean of 3-4 children a piece.
    , @Art Deco
    Durbin's nominally Catholic but not Irish. One grandmother the daughter of potato famine migrants, no more.
    , @Clive Beaconsfield
    I’ve read that RFK was privately guilt-ridden about his philandering and struggled with it for much of his life.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    That's presumption of God's mercy. You have to be truly sorry for your sins and want to avoid committing them again.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience."
     
    My grandmother came from an apostate Catholic family, and this was her take. She told her kids to avoid them for this reason.

    I think it was unfair of her. The practicing Catholics I know aren't like this. OTOH, I recall some Christmas-and-Easter Catholics I knew at college stating this explicitly as a benefit of "Catholicism". Still, when they misbehaved it was merely Kavanaugh-ish (yes, they were Irish), so these weren't exactly criminals. If they weren't Catholic, I'm sure they would have had some other justification for weekend booze-ups.
    , @donut
    " “What I do for a living is, I pack blacks and Latins off to jail.” They should have been proud of it .

    Have you ever seen a Jew burdened by guilt ?
  3. I think of Ronald Reagan. I think of Ted Kennedy and Phil Hart. I think of JFK. I think of William F. Buckley. I think of Paul Ryan.

    I think Cromwell did nothing wrong at Drogheda.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Altai
    If he'd done nothing maybe there wouldn't be any Irish-Americans at all...
    , @Roderick Spode
    Ha. Well, now Paks are going to decimate you. Couldn't happen to a nicer or humbler nation.
  4. Anonymous [AKA "Baileys Irish Cream"] says:
    @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    We Irish Catholics believe deeply in Karma and that the sin will catch up with us. I’m sure there are enough Dead Kennedys to basically prove this right.

  5. Patrick Fitzgerald saw how Giuliani made headlines by catching white Mafia grandfathers, sorry godfathers marching white white collar criminals in through Wall Street in chains.

    http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/57196/
    Patrick Fitzgerald, U.S. Attorney for Illinois’s Northern District, doesn’t pull his punches. Charming, tough, and named one of People’s “sexiest men alive” in 2005, he took down Governor Rod Blagojevich (as well as his predecessor) and got the Times’ Judith Miller imprisoned during the investigation that ended with Scooter Libby’s conviction. Now he’s threatening to take another journalist to court, for defamation and ­libel. And this time, it’s personal. He’s acting as a private citizen defending his public name. The book in question is Peter Lance’s Triple Cross, which was published in November 2006 by Regan Books, a division of Harper­Collins. Lance examines how the FBI and the U.S. Attorney in New York prosecuted terrorists before 9/11, including Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and those who blew up the U.S. embassies in Africa. At that time, Fitzgerald worked for the U.S. Attorney in New York. Lance alleges that Fitzgerald discounted information Lance contends arguably pointed to the existence of a possible Al Qaeda cell in New York five years prior to 9/11.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-lance/al-qaeda-and-the-mob-how-_b_34336.html

    How was it that Fitzgerald, the man Vanity Fair described as the bin Laden “brain,” possessing “scary smart” intelligence, had not connected the dots and ordered the same kind of “perch” or “plant” to watch Sphinx that the Bureau had used against Gotti? Which “stone cold” killer was more a threat to the security of New York City? The Teflon Don or bin Laden’s master spy who cut his deal without giving up those “sleepers” he’d told Fitzgerald about in October of 1997. Here’s an irony in a story pregnant with them:

    Patrick Fitzgerald made his bones as a terror fighter by prosecuting U.S. vs. bin Laden, the trial of the African Embassy bombers that he and squad I-49 failed to stop. As a reward he was appointed U.S. Attorney in Chicago and got tapped as Special Prosecutor in the Valerie Plame CIA leak investigation. We now know that even after learning the identify of the Plame leak source — Bush retainer Richard Armitage – in the early weeks of the investigation, Fitzgerald still subjected the New York Times and Time magazine to a barrage of subpoenas unseen since the McCarthy era – going so far as to force the jailing of ex-Times reporter Judith Miller for 85 days. Until now, Patrick Fitzgerald has been famous for two things: prosecuting al Qaeda members and chilling the press.

    With the publication of Triple Cross his failure to contain bin Laden’s master spy will now be on the record. The book hits the stores on Tuesday, November 21st. Inside there’s a 32 page illustrated timeline documenting Fitzgerald’s negligence.

    It was more Irish anhedonia than Catholic guilt. They needed an enthusiastic police torturer, a cop who really enjoyed torturing non whites, like Jon “cattle prod” Burge (who Fitzgerald put in prison). Fortunately Gantamino Bay secured the services of another enthusiastic Chicago detective with proven torture skills: Richard Zuley.
    In Brazil he would be popular national hero.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/06/homophobic-mismogynist-racist-brazil-jair-bolsonaro

    Bolsonaro viciously dedicated his vote “to the memory of colonel Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra”. Ustra was one of the most sadistic torturers and murderers in the military dictatorship that choked Brazil between 1964 and 1985. He died without answering for his crimes. For this election, Bolsonaro’s children and supporters have printed the torturer’s face on their T-shirts, with the phrase “Ustra lives!”.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    By the way Bolsonaro is polling very strongly, after a campaign of solid front-running, except for a ring of communust states surrounding one alt-communist state, and one that has no polling data. The lattern resembles the map of crime rates.
    http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1538863211603.png
    I am deeply suspicious of all lefty crying about atrocities, coming from lefties who get strangely tired, or even positively aggressively revisionist, when it comes time to mention what drove right-wing people to turn to violence. There's a good Polish food restaurant in Detroit that relies on Stalinist imagery, and if anyone were to point out the "offensiveness" they'd be laughed at, or considered as insane as if they out forward a Völkisch sausage haus. Actually a beer and sausage place with a red and black color scheme would have been hilarious in the eighties but would be conpletely impossible now.
    , @Redneck farmer
    Reading about Brazil's crime rate, I can't necessarily blame people for voting for the guy.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

    - attributed apochryphaly to George Orwell
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Notes on the article you linked:

    1. Elaine Brum is despicable. She calls out Bolsonaro for his violent rethorics, forgetting to mention that he was knifed in an assassination attempt by a nutcase Communist one month ago. His candidate on the São Paulo Governor race has just now suffered an attemp on his life too (though the criminals escaped), and his supporter in Curitiba (Professor Galdino) got beaten to unconsciousness. So much for political violence.

    2. She writes:

    By celebrating Ustra, Bolsonaro has rekindled the horror of that period. And he can do it only because Brazil has never punished those who tortured, kidnapped and killed in the name of the state. Bolsonaro is the monstrous product of Brazilian democracy’s silence about the crimes committed by its former dictatorship.
     
    LOL, silence. The Left just cannot get enough talking about the last bout of dictatorship, even after 34 years of its fall. We even had a Comission of Truth (not joking) to document all the crimes and disappearances of the time.

    She means to criticize the general amnesty granted to the regime grunts... which is also granted amnesty for the Leftist terrorists she admires so much, including former president Dilma Rousseff, but never mind. It was a general amnesty without which half of the Left would also have to answer for their crimes.

    3. She writes:

    A movement grew out of this group, last week spurring hundreds of thousands of women – and men – on to the streets of Brazil and around the world. Many carried banners with the slogan and hashtag: #EleNão – #NotHim. It was the biggest demonstration organised by women in Brazil’s history.
     
    Aaaaaaand after so big an effort to disparage him , Bolsonaro got more vote from women. Good job!?

    4. Finally, one interesting gem:

    Explaining hasn’t had any effect. Bolsonaro is less a post-truth phenomenon than a phenomenon of what I call self-truth. The content of what he says doesn’t matter: what matters is the act of saying it. Aesthetics have replaced ethics. By saying everything and anything, no matter how violent, he is labelled truthful or sincere by his voters at a time when politicians are being shunned as frauds and liars. At the same time, “truth” has become an absolute and a personal choice. The individual has been taken to a radical extreme.
     
    Notice how she unawarily she describes the Leftist mind, and projects it on her opponent. Powerful stuff.
  6. Steve, do you have some sort of annotated concordance to The Bonfire of the Vanities? Or do you reread it semiannually?

  7. Blacks And Mestizos And Sambos Run Amok When Irish, Italian and Jew Prosecutors Pull Back

  8. The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness.

    This is a very good and astute insight that I never would have come up with. And that’s despite the fact that I’m familiar with the phenomenon and know exactly when I became aware of it.

    In college I took two poetry-writing seminars, one with a guy named Michael Blumenthal and the other with Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory and future Nobelist Seamus Heaney. One morning in the Blumenthal era he was seeming distinctly (and uncharacteristically, and sheepishly) rough as the class assembled, and once we were all there he felt compelled to account for it.

    “I went out last night with Seamus Heaney for drinks, which we do every year,” he said. “Jews can’t drink.”

    Actually, I’d argue that it’s the Irish who can’t drink, and I say that as about a one-third Irishman myself. But I knew what he meant.

    Of the many Jews I’ve met, I’ve only known one really big drinker. Perhaps significantly, he’s Sephardic.

    • Replies: @Prester John
    The drinking bit tends towards sweeping generalizations. My father and mother emigrated from Germany and Ireland respectively. As a Galway man of my acquaintance once said "Good combination. Bad fer th' drink." True enough, but my father was a teetotaler and though my Irish -born uncles all drank only one of 'em was an alkie. Supposedly Italians, like Jews, don't drink but as my old Italo-American boss told me "there are more than you think." And some Jews of my acquaintance could bend an elbow with the best. I read somewhere that the biggest drinkers of all are the Rooshians and Aussies.
    , @william munny
    I always thought people who say the Irish can drink have no experience with Slavs.

    The Irish might like to drink, but that doesn't make them particularly good at it.

    The Orthodox Jews in New Jersey like to drink, but they are very bad at it.
    , @Jack D
    In my experience, Ashkenazi Jews have a lot less desire to drink that the Irish. I know a lot of Jews who simply never drink, like Trump - just don't like it. They go out and they have ice tea. Alcohol is just not recreational for them. Also a lot of Jews (like myself) who will sometimes have a glass of wine or two at dinner but who rarely if ever get rip roaring drunk.

    But, when Jews DO drink, they can hold their alcohol pretty well. They are not like Asians who turn beet red. The fact that they have a high tolerance for the stuff may mean that they get less enjoyment from it.

    I have no data for this - this is just my personal impression.
    , @Anonymous
    As I remember, from psych classes as an undergrad, nearly everyone who claims to not remember what happened when they were drunk are lying and do remember it but prefer not to be associated with some of the things they did and foolish things they said. It’s basically an excuse.
    , @TheLatestInDecay
    Do you even *know Seamus Heaney?
  9. Irish Catholics probably do drink more than most groups, but, in this entire political circus, which I’ve followed relatively closely, I have heard and read no references to his Irishness or Catholicness outside of this blog, while I’ve read many, many references to his whiteness.

    It would be interesting to discuss the evolution (and disappearance) of Irish Catholic American identity and culture over time. I think it’s safe to say that, by the election of JFK to the presidency, “Irish Catholic” had become a relatively meaningless distinction in American politics and culture. Certainly it is even more meaningless now. But doubtlessly, differences still exist even if very few people are conscious of them.

    • Replies: @prusmc
    Now Teddy, there was an Irish Catholic American that we all can admire for his moderation when confronting "demon rum ." Like Christine at the party in 1982, he only had one beer.
    , @Jack D
    Back in the day, a lot of American humor depending on ethnic stereotyping - it was all in good fun and not malicious - the Scottish were tight fisted, Irish were drunks, Jewish waiters were rude, etc. But ethnic stereotyping of any kind is now strictly Verboten. (There is no humor in Leftism - the late night TV show monologues no longer consist of jokes, just of nonstop criticism of Trump. ) So of course no one in polite society could mention that all these hard drinking high school girls and boys were Irish Catholics. This is the kind of thing that can only be discussed on racist blogs. Everyone else knows that humans are blank slates so your ethnic origin is of no relevance to your behavior.
    , @Marat
    The Know Nothings were formally vanquished, but strains of these thoughts were alive and well in the bourroughs, before the current influx. Many bedroom communities of Manhattan had social fallout lines drawn within them, although they seemingly got along on the surface in the 1950s and 60s.

    Many people from my high school were keenly aware of Kavanaugh's subculture which (imo) was deliberately given a pass - for the greater good. These are nit-picky details of yesteryear's memories when we had the luxury of rating Our subculture over Their subculture for social sport, in more stable times.

    My impression is the bygones of past social foibles are being publicly dropped and necessarily set aside, as ranks are closing in response to the larger progressive label of "whiteness" This spectacle helped crystallize both polar opposite camps (thanks Obama): the whites and non-whites, in the Narrative anyway.

  10. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    No – using the top oligarchs for your example isn’t accurate.

    My father’s family for example, is a great example of Irish Catholic guilt. The old man is the oldest of 12, born in 1944, so my grandmother was basically pregnant for 16 years until the youngest came in 1960. 6 boys and 6 girls. They lived in Evanston growing up, that is, until Evanston was diversified in the 80’s and 90’s. They have all since moved to less diverse towns (Glencoe, Woodstock, Wheaton, Skokie)/N by NW Chicago neighborhoods (my old man and the next oldest brother have been retired to state tax-less Florida, and more will follow), where at the reunions they prattle on about equality and racism and taxing the rich while making sure to not live anywhere near blacks and browns. Two of the sisters were never married and had no kids, 4 of them became public school teachers and another one moved to Seattle (one of the unmarried ones) where she is some sort of director for the city art museum or something. The men all married but they are all Daley Democrats through and through. All but 2 were Vietnam War age but only one was drafted and served in Vietnam.

    There are 36 grandkids and they are are all, save myself, standard issue gen-x/early millennial lockstep progressive bots. I sometimes expect them to all speak in unison. I am the only one who joined the military out the 36.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Interesting in a depressing way, like most everything these days which touches our future as a nation.

    Do any of them still practice their religion?
  11. What is this Catholic Guilt? I’ve met this term several times, each time used by American author. As I understand it it has something to do with shame, sexuality and repression and needs to be overcame.

    My pet theory: it is something that American Protestants felt that Catholics must have or it was created in American Catholicism by close contact with American Puritanism, which I am told has its share of problems with guilt.

    • Replies: @Jake
    What most mean here when they talk about Irish Guilt is Irish Catholics from northern cities feeling guilty about blacks being what they are. Your pet theory is correct: it is real, and it is about assimilation.

    For Irish Catholics to begin to be accepted, they had to assimilate. Irish Catholics in the South assimilated to white Southern culture and so tended to do things that Yankee Liberals hated, such as what the Irish did to badly misbehaving blacks in Memphis. Irish Catholics in the North, who were the only group of any size in the North to oppose with force the Yank war to see whites die to free Negroes, assimilated to the Yank culture that won the Civil War, out of which the Negro emerged Numinous. The rich Yankee WASP made the Negro a Numinous sacred cow. If you wanted to be accepted in rich WASP law firms and hospitals and businesses, you had to play along. And one generation's playing along becomes the next generation's actual beliefs.
    , @Anon 2
    As someone who was raised Catholic (although not Irish), I wouldn't necessarily
    call it "guilt," just a sense that one doesn't measure up to the impossible ideals
    of saintliness one hears about in Sunday sermons, starting with Jesus, and then
    with people like St. Francis of Assisi, St. Thérèse of Lisieux, St. Faustina Kowalska
    or St. Padre Pio. You ask yourself: do I have a healing presence or do miracles flow
    through me everywhere I go? And the answer is usually 'no.'

    You either gain power over matter through science and technology or through
    miracles. Science and technology have been extremely successful in the last
    300 years (although they became tarnished because we now know that nothing
    is as effective as science if you want kill people with very high efficiency).
    Protestantism which (except for Evangelicalism) is the first step
    toward agnosticism, basically gave up on miracles, and has turned to
    science in its quest for salvation. Catholics still believe in miracles but
    also realize that apparently you cannot become a miracle worker without
    extreme sensory deprivation, mainly fasting and celibacy, as evidenced
    by the individuals listed above. And how many people are capable of that?

    What's interesting is that science appears to be running out of steam.
    Nobody is making great discoveries anymore, not even in biomedical
    sciences. And people obviously need healing, e.g., of opioid addiction
    or alcoholism. So who's gonna heal them? Our hopes placed in science
    and medicine are being dashed, and this seems to be the biggest trend
    today: people are turning once again to spiritual healing (as promised
    by Mary Baker Eddy) and to alternative medicine, and away from science.
  12. With one of his many great moments in the annals of juridical drunkenness, here’s The Fast Show‘s Rowley Birkin QC as played by the wonderful Paul Whitehouse:

    • Replies: @Maus
    slumber j, much thanks. That clip was hilarious and brightened my day.
  13. Anonymous [AKA "Ytr"] says:

    After a night out, the only difference between Lace Curtain Irish and Shanty Irish is that the Lace Curtain Irish know to move the dishes out of the sink before they pee in it.

    • LOL: Roderick Spode
  14. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    Yep, pretty much true, beyond the pale.

  15. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    Mayor Daley was a daily communicant and most devoted husband and father. He lived in the same house from 1939 until his death (it had some additions, as you might expect of a family with seven children; it was in the Bridgeport neighborhood, where he’d grown up). A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket. His sons are all over 70 now. If I’m not mistaken, they’ve each been married just once. One of the Daley sisters was a spinster. The other six Daley children had a mean of 3-4 children a piece.

    • Replies: @slumber_j

    A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket.
     
    That's right. Daley doesn't seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power. Localized power.

    He did get mixed up in national politics of course. But to him anything not Chicago (or Cook County anyway) wasn't worth running, as far as I can tell.

    , @36 ulster
    Thanks, Art Deco. The Daleys were not the sorts of guys who were a menace to their friends and allies. They weren't choirboys, but Chicago politics...ain't beanbag. Also, I believe that Dick Aptly Named Durbin is of Lithuanian descent: If so, it's an understandable misjudgement to believe that he's Irish. That's an extra burden we don't need to carry.
    , @Hibernian
    I'm sure he paid full price for those additions out of his public salary. They also had a beach house in Michigan. Their Midwestern Hyannisport.
  16. @Art Deco
    Mayor Daley was a daily communicant and most devoted husband and father. He lived in the same house from 1939 until his death (it had some additions, as you might expect of a family with seven children; it was in the Bridgeport neighborhood, where he'd grown up). A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket. His sons are all over 70 now. If I'm not mistaken, they've each been married just once. One of the Daley sisters was a spinster. The other six Daley children had a mean of 3-4 children a piece.

    A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket.

    That’s right. Daley doesn’t seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power. Localized power.

    He did get mixed up in national politics of course. But to him anything not Chicago (or Cook County anyway) wasn’t worth running, as far as I can tell.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    That’s right. Daley doesn’t seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power. Localized power.

    Or, politics was a living for him, and one in which he could prosper because he had certain people skills. A Chicago precinct captain was once asked about his dealings with Mayor Daley. Not too much, he replied, but "he met you once, he'd remember you forever".
    , @Hibernian
    "Daley doesn’t seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power."

    I'll grant that he didn't steal money hand over fist. (Some of his underlings did.) He was very power oriented but that's not mutually exclusive with a degree of wealth orientation. Smart people in politics, including a distant relative of mine, took in-kind gifts rather than cash.
  17. Irish Catholics in Ireland, at least until recently, took their Christianity to heart. I never get the same impression about Irish-Americans. It seems like it’s all just a “nod and a wink” show with them. I’d love to be proven wrong but Irish-American Christian piety — “Catholic guilt” — seems to be a myth. It’s some palaver the Micks sell other people to make themselves seem more interesting.

    Anyway, here’s a Russian take on the current mess you’re in:

  18. Anonymous [AKA "IRA Cromwell"] says:

    Honestly, if one were to create a torture chamber specifically for an Irish Catholic-raised man, it would be what Kavanaugh endured on September 27. An Inquisition about his sex life and drinking is likely the worse nightmare imaginable.

    Jews rarely drink, and sex doesn’t apparently have the taboo for them that it has for a Catholic, especially an Irish one. Sex is more freely talked about and joked about in a Jewish household (Hence their attitudes now in Hollywood and the porn industry, and overrepresentation as the accused in #MeToo.)

    My experience also shows me that Latin Catholics also don’t have the deep guilt about sex either.

  19. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    Durbin’s nominally Catholic but not Irish. One grandmother the daughter of potato famine migrants, no more.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I think you have it backwards. I know he's part Lithuanian on his mother's side. Durbin is an Irish name.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Durbin’s nominally Catholic but not Irish. One grandmother the daughter of potato famine migrants, no more.
     
    Durbin is the progeny of a member of a roving band of gypsies (Irish Travellers) and a barnyard animal. The love that cannot be named produced the esteemed Dick. And the medical community has confirmed that Dick's offspring do indeed have corkscrew tails.
  20. The ‘creepy porn lawyer’ lived up to his sobriquet by luridly doubting BK’s claims of virginity.

    Is it so hard to believe that a relatively good looking scholar-athlete type who doubtless could get female attention would nonetheless be bashful or guilty about it?

  21. Kavan….isn’t that the name of a Bollywood movie?

  22. @slumber_j

    A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket.
     
    That's right. Daley doesn't seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power. Localized power.

    He did get mixed up in national politics of course. But to him anything not Chicago (or Cook County anyway) wasn't worth running, as far as I can tell.

    That’s right. Daley doesn’t seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power. Localized power.

    Or, politics was a living for him, and one in which he could prosper because he had certain people skills. A Chicago precinct captain was once asked about his dealings with Mayor Daley. Not too much, he replied, but “he met you once, he’d remember you forever”.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    That type of memory is more valuable than almost anything else in politics.

    A guy I know campaigned for Hillary in 2008. He met her once briefly then didn't see her for months, and she remembered his name.
  23. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    I’ve read that RFK was privately guilt-ridden about his philandering and struggled with it for much of his life.

  24. some drunk people forget,

    I contest this assertion.

    Some people want to forget.

    If it is a woman, she invariable forgets how much her behavior indicates her conscious involvement. This usually pertains to sexual encounters. Classic example is Dr. Ford’s sketchy memory of how it came to be that there were boys laughing at her.

    If it is a man, it invariable involves violation of some norm, frequently, but not always in sexual encounters. Sometimes it is because said behavior violates the man’s self-image.

    They only forget because they want to forget.

  25. Kavanaugh Kase Klosed

    See, the totalitarian left had it called all along.

  26. @Art Deco
    Mayor Daley was a daily communicant and most devoted husband and father. He lived in the same house from 1939 until his death (it had some additions, as you might expect of a family with seven children; it was in the Bridgeport neighborhood, where he'd grown up). A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket. His sons are all over 70 now. If I'm not mistaken, they've each been married just once. One of the Daley sisters was a spinster. The other six Daley children had a mean of 3-4 children a piece.

    Thanks, Art Deco. The Daleys were not the sorts of guys who were a menace to their friends and allies. They weren’t choirboys, but Chicago politics…ain’t beanbag. Also, I believe that Dick Aptly Named Durbin is of Lithuanian descent: If so, it’s an understandable misjudgement to believe that he’s Irish. That’s an extra burden we don’t need to carry.

  27. @slumber_j

    The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness.
     
    This is a very good and astute insight that I never would have come up with. And that's despite the fact that I'm familiar with the phenomenon and know exactly when I became aware of it.

    In college I took two poetry-writing seminars, one with a guy named Michael Blumenthal and the other with Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory and future Nobelist Seamus Heaney. One morning in the Blumenthal era he was seeming distinctly (and uncharacteristically, and sheepishly) rough as the class assembled, and once we were all there he felt compelled to account for it.

    "I went out last night with Seamus Heaney for drinks, which we do every year," he said. "Jews can't drink."

    Actually, I'd argue that it's the Irish who can't drink, and I say that as about a one-third Irishman myself. But I knew what he meant.

    Of the many Jews I've met, I've only known one really big drinker. Perhaps significantly, he's Sephardic.

    The drinking bit tends towards sweeping generalizations. My father and mother emigrated from Germany and Ireland respectively. As a Galway man of my acquaintance once said “Good combination. Bad fer th’ drink.” True enough, but my father was a teetotaler and though my Irish -born uncles all drank only one of ’em was an alkie. Supposedly Italians, like Jews, don’t drink but as my old Italo-American boss told me “there are more than you think.” And some Jews of my acquaintance could bend an elbow with the best. I read somewhere that the biggest drinkers of all are the Rooshians and Aussies.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I read somewhere that the biggest drinkers of all are the Rooshians and Aussies.
     
    Close. Koreans: https://qz.com/171191/south-koreans-drink-twice-as-much-liquor-as-russians-and-more-than-four-times-as-much-as-americans/
    https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/liquor-consumption2.png?w=2520&strip=all&quality=75
  28. When I was young, I saw that scene for the first time and just thought it was bizarre. Now I realize it how true every word of it is, and how applicable to our time.

    The fact is , you can’t trust a man who can’t, or won’t drink.

    The fact is, you can’t trust a closed mouth man.

    Colleges full of closed mouth, sullen, heads down teetotalers…..yech.

  29. @Art Deco
    That’s right. Daley doesn’t seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power. Localized power.

    Or, politics was a living for him, and one in which he could prosper because he had certain people skills. A Chicago precinct captain was once asked about his dealings with Mayor Daley. Not too much, he replied, but "he met you once, he'd remember you forever".

    That type of memory is more valuable than almost anything else in politics.

    A guy I know campaigned for Hillary in 2008. He met her once briefly then didn’t see her for months, and she remembered his name.

    • Replies: @anon
    Bill Clinton used to keep cue cards with names and personal details of all his acquaintances at college, so don't think it's necessarily a knack that they have.

    Hillary probably had someone whisper your mate's name in her ear just before he approached.
  30. @slumber_j

    The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness.
     
    This is a very good and astute insight that I never would have come up with. And that's despite the fact that I'm familiar with the phenomenon and know exactly when I became aware of it.

    In college I took two poetry-writing seminars, one with a guy named Michael Blumenthal and the other with Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory and future Nobelist Seamus Heaney. One morning in the Blumenthal era he was seeming distinctly (and uncharacteristically, and sheepishly) rough as the class assembled, and once we were all there he felt compelled to account for it.

    "I went out last night with Seamus Heaney for drinks, which we do every year," he said. "Jews can't drink."

    Actually, I'd argue that it's the Irish who can't drink, and I say that as about a one-third Irishman myself. But I knew what he meant.

    Of the many Jews I've met, I've only known one really big drinker. Perhaps significantly, he's Sephardic.

    I always thought people who say the Irish can drink have no experience with Slavs.

    The Irish might like to drink, but that doesn’t make them particularly good at it.

    The Orthodox Jews in New Jersey like to drink, but they are very bad at it.

  31. @Art Deco
    Durbin's nominally Catholic but not Irish. One grandmother the daughter of potato famine migrants, no more.

    I think you have it backwards. I know he’s part Lithuanian on his mother’s side. Durbin is an Irish name.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    His mother was born in Lithuania. His paternal grandfather was old stock with a long pedigree in the states. 'Durbin' is a Norman name. It was his paternal grandmother's parents who were Irish born. (Family name quite odd: Gaul).
  32. I have never had the slightest memory loss, even those nights when I was 18 and had 15 hard liquor drinks.

    Even now I remember stumbling home through town and trying to stay awake enough to drink a big glass of water before bed to avoid a dehydration hangover.

    If Kav really had a weak stomach, that makes blackouts even less likely as he’d purge some of the alcohol before it reached his blood and brain.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    If Kav really had a weak stomach, that makes blackouts even less likely as he’d purge some of the alcohol before it reached his blood and brain.
     
    Puking it all out means that you have a clean system, IMO*. The first times I drank a lot, I got rid of all of that Miller High Life about 2 hours later into the sink. I learned during college to keep the light on in the room and stare at it until I fell asleep before the room starting spinning clockwise (or is it CCW in the northern hemisphere?). I don't ever remember forgetting anything (wait, what??), per the way blackouts are depicted.

    * I am not a doctor, so just my opinion. Speaking of doctors, as I related in Docs on Bikes, Addendum, a doctor friend of mine used to complain to me of symptoms of seeing double when he was very drunk. The problem was on the highway, as he told me there were way too many white lines than the road normally had, and he had to pick the right ones to stay on the road. (Not to worry, he could drive better drunk than most of us sober). It did look funny when he had to come in each morning to the cath lab on a motor-pecan, instead of his sports car, for 3 months or so.
    , @Anonymous
    I never really got into drinking much, even in college. A few times getting really ripped my freshman year and dealing with the consequences - nausea and vomiting, stumbling around and spraining my ankle, feeling like 10 pounds of crap in a five pound bag the next day, doing terrible on a test; at a time in my life when I was pinching pennies harder than any other time in my life, I thought - I paid good money for this? Felt like most people were absolute idiots for worshipping this crap. Really made me wonder why so many people could become raging addicts to this stuff.
    , @PV van der Byl
    Are you about half Irish, yourself?
    , @Knox
    Good point. I was a heavy drinker for almost 10 years. Started drinking at 14 , almost once per week I would drink and usually have 6 to 12 drinks and never blacked-out in high school. In college I drank about 4 nights per week , getting drunk almost twice each week while living in a fraternity for 4 years....after graduating and getting a job on Wall Street I was drinking 5 nights per week, usually had 4-5 drinks after work and on Friday typically consumed 10 drinks. But only blacked out 3 times in college and twice after graduating. The times I blacked-out were the result of consuming about 20 drinks...I only puked twice in my life from drinking.

    Slowed down my drinking at age 27 because I started getting hangovers. Never had significant hangovers until I was 21 and they kept getting worse. Stopped drinking because hated wasting too many saturdays hungover and I started dating a girl who never drank an ounce of booze. Made it easy to stop and I realized life was much better without booze.
  33. @Art Deco
    Mayor Daley was a daily communicant and most devoted husband and father. He lived in the same house from 1939 until his death (it had some additions, as you might expect of a family with seven children; it was in the Bridgeport neighborhood, where he'd grown up). A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket. His sons are all over 70 now. If I'm not mistaken, they've each been married just once. One of the Daley sisters was a spinster. The other six Daley children had a mean of 3-4 children a piece.

    I’m sure he paid full price for those additions out of his public salary. They also had a beach house in Michigan. Their Midwestern Hyannisport.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The house in Michigan the mayor bought when he was past 60. It supposedly was sold to them for about $40,000 (at a time when median home prices were about $20,000), and had 7 rms. I'm betting the Kennedy Kennel at Hyannisport is a trifle more plush.
  34. “other drunk people remember every embarrassing detail.”

    You mean fun and hilarious detail!

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Sometimes your friends will be happy to tell you exactly what you did....
  35. @slumber_j

    A great deal of crookery in the Chicago machine, but not much indication any of the pilferage was flowing into his pocket.
     
    That's right. Daley doesn't seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power. Localized power.

    He did get mixed up in national politics of course. But to him anything not Chicago (or Cook County anyway) wasn't worth running, as far as I can tell.

    “Daley doesn’t seem to have cared at all about money; he just really, really liked power.”

    I’ll grant that he didn’t steal money hand over fist. (Some of his underlings did.) He was very power oriented but that’s not mutually exclusive with a degree of wealth orientation. Smart people in politics, including a distant relative of mine, took in-kind gifts rather than cash.

  36. I have Irish Alzheimer’s. I forget everything but the grudges.

    • Agree: Coemgen
  37. One mild correction Steve: the guys in the Hangover couldn’t remember because they were drugged, not because they were drunk.

  38. @slumber_j

    The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness.
     
    This is a very good and astute insight that I never would have come up with. And that's despite the fact that I'm familiar with the phenomenon and know exactly when I became aware of it.

    In college I took two poetry-writing seminars, one with a guy named Michael Blumenthal and the other with Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory and future Nobelist Seamus Heaney. One morning in the Blumenthal era he was seeming distinctly (and uncharacteristically, and sheepishly) rough as the class assembled, and once we were all there he felt compelled to account for it.

    "I went out last night with Seamus Heaney for drinks, which we do every year," he said. "Jews can't drink."

    Actually, I'd argue that it's the Irish who can't drink, and I say that as about a one-third Irishman myself. But I knew what he meant.

    Of the many Jews I've met, I've only known one really big drinker. Perhaps significantly, he's Sephardic.

    In my experience, Ashkenazi Jews have a lot less desire to drink that the Irish. I know a lot of Jews who simply never drink, like Trump – just don’t like it. They go out and they have ice tea. Alcohol is just not recreational for them. Also a lot of Jews (like myself) who will sometimes have a glass of wine or two at dinner but who rarely if ever get rip roaring drunk.

    But, when Jews DO drink, they can hold their alcohol pretty well. They are not like Asians who turn beet red. The fact that they have a high tolerance for the stuff may mean that they get less enjoyment from it.

    I have no data for this – this is just my personal impression.

    • Replies: @Stolen Valor Detective
    I think Glazer and Moynihan wrote about the relative prevalence of alcoholism among white ethnic groups in Beyond the Melting Pot. (Or maybe this was Thomas Sowell in Ethnic America.) IIRC, they said that the Italians and Jews tended to hold their liquor better than the Irish did.
    , @Anonymous
    It’s because your wine has a reputation for tasting awful.
    , @jimmyriddle
    Genetics.

    There is North-South cline in alcoholism rates (not that Kav is a dipso). Middle Easterners and South Europeans have been growing grain for a lot longer than the Irish and Scots, and so the genes that make you susceptible have been winnowed out to a greater extent.

    For the same reason, Plains Indian reservations like Pine Ridge are a disaster zone, but Mexican Indians can mostly handle booze without societal collapse.
    , @Flip
    I've read a theory that Jews don't drink much as their ancestors didn't want to lose control living in the midst of sometimes hostile Slavs in Eastern Europe.
  39. My Latin is a little bit rusty, but here goes:

    In Beerio Is Truthio

    No more political debates without 12-pack ale consumption, Dammit!

    Make all politicians pop down a 12-pack of Sierra Nevada porter or India pale ale.

    Sierra Nevada beer brewery is run by a billionaire Jew. He could be my 3rd all-time favorite Jew after Jesus Christ and Norm Abram.

    Jesus Christ would’ve pushed that annoying boob Bob Vila off a roof after about 3 seasons of that house show. Norm Abram never did; what Christlike forbearance!

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Jesus Christ would’ve pushed that annoying boob Bob Vila off a roof after about 3 seasons of that house show. Norm Abram never did; what Christlike forbearance!
     
    I cannot adequately describe how much unexpected laughter I experience as a consequence of reading your posts. But I can say: Thank you!
  40. @Jack D
    In my experience, Ashkenazi Jews have a lot less desire to drink that the Irish. I know a lot of Jews who simply never drink, like Trump - just don't like it. They go out and they have ice tea. Alcohol is just not recreational for them. Also a lot of Jews (like myself) who will sometimes have a glass of wine or two at dinner but who rarely if ever get rip roaring drunk.

    But, when Jews DO drink, they can hold their alcohol pretty well. They are not like Asians who turn beet red. The fact that they have a high tolerance for the stuff may mean that they get less enjoyment from it.

    I have no data for this - this is just my personal impression.

    I think Glazer and Moynihan wrote about the relative prevalence of alcoholism among white ethnic groups in Beyond the Melting Pot. (Or maybe this was Thomas Sowell in Ethnic America.) IIRC, they said that the Italians and Jews tended to hold their liquor better than the Irish did.

  41. @Lot
    I have never had the slightest memory loss, even those nights when I was 18 and had 15 hard liquor drinks.

    Even now I remember stumbling home through town and trying to stay awake enough to drink a big glass of water before bed to avoid a dehydration hangover.

    If Kav really had a weak stomach, that makes blackouts even less likely as he'd purge some of the alcohol before it reached his blood and brain.

    If Kav really had a weak stomach, that makes blackouts even less likely as he’d purge some of the alcohol before it reached his blood and brain.

    Puking it all out means that you have a clean system, IMO*. The first times I drank a lot, I got rid of all of that Miller High Life about 2 hours later into the sink. I learned during college to keep the light on in the room and stare at it until I fell asleep before the room starting spinning clockwise (or is it CCW in the northern hemisphere?). I don’t ever remember forgetting anything (wait, what??), per the way blackouts are depicted.

    * I am not a doctor, so just my opinion. Speaking of doctors, as I related in Docs on Bikes, Addendum, a doctor friend of mine used to complain to me of symptoms of seeing double when he was very drunk. The problem was on the highway, as he told me there were way too many white lines than the road normally had, and he had to pick the right ones to stay on the road. (Not to worry, he could drive better drunk than most of us sober). It did look funny when he had to come in each morning to the cath lab on a motor-pecan, instead of his sports car, for 3 months or so.

  42. My wife’s work with learning disabled children puts her in contact with a lot of lace curtain Irish Catholic families (as well as WASPs and Jews) – the kind that send their kids to prep schools. To her, the biggest distinguishing characteristic vs other groups is that Irish Catholics (except perhaps when drunk – she never sees the parents when they are drunk) don’t like confrontation or to air dirty family laundry in public. They have a strong sense of shame. They would rather shove a problem under the rug or seeth in passive aggressive fashion than deal with a problem head on and subject themselves to what they think of as public shame.

    We see this, perhaps, in the Catholic Church’s approach to pedophile priests. Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again. If you know any modern secular Jewish families that have a disabled family member, or who have been in legal trouble or whatever, they don’t try to hide it – they will tell you about it 5 minutes after you have met them (and Jews (Harvey Weinstein) are known for being “shameless” in other ways). Drug addiction, etc. are seen as medical issues like having diabetes and not as moral failures to be ashamed of or hidden from public view.

    In the context of her work, this means that the Jewish families call her when their kid is in first grade and isn’t learning to read quite as fast as the other kids and the Irish Catholic families call her halfway thru junior year of high school when their kid is about to flunk out.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.
    , @Art Deco
    Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again.

    She was getting physically aggressive and had run away from one school where she'd been placed. Joseph P, Kennedy thought this psychosurgery novelty called a 'lobotomy' might be the ticket. IIRC, it was performed by Walter Freeman, who'd developed it. Ruined her. She needed 24 hour care the rest of her life (which was a sadly long life). The Kennedy's promoted the idea ca. 1960 that she was retarded. If I'm not mistaken, there are in archives surviving school assignments she'd completed which have been examined by psychologists, who have in turn said her degree of mastery in mathematics was too pronounced for her to have been retarded.
    , @Joe Walker
    In the context of her work, this means that the Jewish families call her when their kid is in first grade and isn’t learning to read quite as fast as the other kids and the Irish Catholic families call her halfway thru junior year of high school when their kid is about to flunk out.

    What kind of teacher is your wife that she works with both kids in first grade and in high school?
    , @Coemgen

    ...pedophile priests...
     
    ...pedophile homosexual priests...
  43. I’m as Irish as Kavanaugh. Don’t drink so much any more but miss it. Drank with plenty of Jews, all good guys. As my father, bartender extraordinaire said – Jews don’t drink, except when they drink.

  44. My experience with Irish Catholic Guilt is they pull some stupid self-indulgent shit, get caught, feel horrible about it, honestly apologize, their remorse is absolutely authentic, and then later, they pull some variation of the same shit again.

    Rinse, repeat.

    Every Irish Catholic male I’ve known, drunk or not, follows the same process. I don’t know why.

    Another Traditional Feature of the Irish American : Malice.

    I watched most of the hearings, studying Kavanaugh for that go-to Irish American trait, and he had it in spades. Not Supreme Court material. Real lowbrow Irish shit.

    I’d rather see Kavanaugh in the seat, than a progressive liberal, but he’s not the judge I would prefer, if I had other choices. On the other hand, hardcore progressive liberals who decided to dispense with Kavanaugh by any political means necessary, didn’t consider what the outcome would be should they fail:

    Irish American conservative malice demonstrating itself on the Supreme Court for at least the next 30 years. Again, not what I’d like to see, but there ya go.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Maybe the willingness to sin again is related to the concept that confession wipes your sins clean? I realize this is not what the Church really says ("Go and sin no more") but it may be some sort of distorted folk interpretation that gets registered, not the official Church teaching.

    If K has malice now (and I wouldn't doubt it, although I am still wondering if he isn't hoping to be re-accepted into polite society for the moment. He may bend over backward for a while and he will get zero credit for it from Leftists so he'll get the message eventually that he is never getting his old life back and is going to be Hitler to Leftists for the rest of his life no matter what - no "strange new respect" for him unless he dies) then who is this malice toward? Malice away, K, let your malice rage!
    , @Anonymous
    You totally nailed it.

    Kavanaugh is a prototypical lace curtain Irish Catholic wanna be WASP, but these folks have all the sad traits of the starving resentful Irish peasants they descend from. Malice that turns into immortal grudges. A almost poragraphic desire for vengance, touching and heartfelt regret for all their sins (there are always plenty).

    Breathtaking insouciance about lying. Look at the Kennedy clan; they still are the same scheming genetic criminals they were when they reached our shores a hundred years ago.

    I'm amused that anyone would think that alcohol abuse it the worst Irish Catholic trait, it's perhaps their least worst.

    Please don't think that I hate Irish Catholics. I don't, I just know them well. They have some good traits such as physical courage and parental respect.

    The Know Nothings were right to try to keep them out of the country, but they are here now so we just make do with the human capital we have and hope for improvement in time.

    As for Kavanaugh, he would not have been my choice. I'm glad he was confirmed. A rejection would have been politically undesirable.
    , @Clyde

    Irish American conservative malice demonstrating itself on the Supreme Court for at least the next 30 years. Again, not what I’d like to see, but there ya go.
     
    You are a one post wonder here but I will take the Kavanaugh malice you describe. Any day of the week. This way we get to trade malice for malice with libby Dems and the deranged pussy hatters that swarmed The Capitol the last 7 days.
  45. @Jack D
    My wife's work with learning disabled children puts her in contact with a lot of lace curtain Irish Catholic families (as well as WASPs and Jews) - the kind that send their kids to prep schools. To her, the biggest distinguishing characteristic vs other groups is that Irish Catholics (except perhaps when drunk - she never sees the parents when they are drunk) don't like confrontation or to air dirty family laundry in public. They have a strong sense of shame. They would rather shove a problem under the rug or seeth in passive aggressive fashion than deal with a problem head on and subject themselves to what they think of as public shame.

    We see this, perhaps, in the Catholic Church's approach to pedophile priests. Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again. If you know any modern secular Jewish families that have a disabled family member, or who have been in legal trouble or whatever, they don't try to hide it - they will tell you about it 5 minutes after you have met them (and Jews (Harvey Weinstein) are known for being "shameless" in other ways). Drug addiction, etc. are seen as medical issues like having diabetes and not as moral failures to be ashamed of or hidden from public view.

    In the context of her work, this means that the Jewish families call her when their kid is in first grade and isn't learning to read quite as fast as the other kids and the Irish Catholic families call her halfway thru junior year of high school when their kid is about to flunk out.

    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    Lace curtain Irish (ie upwardly mobile)

    Different from the rest. With upwardly mobile types there will be an effort to avoid public shame way more than usual
    , @Yadd

    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.

     

    Nope. American Irish Catholics. The Catholicism just supercharges their perverse nature. It forces them to subjugate their Irishishness. Don’t start trying to defend the Irish Catholics, especially the American ones. They have an historical laundry list of debauchery, malfeasance, lack of self-control, bald-faced perversion, and pointless flightful fancy that has been observed and commented on by many of our founding father's, all the way forward to contemporary observers, and the Irish social manifest hasn't changed much, except for the Boston Irish, who are now even worse.

    It’s not by accident that the typical sympathetic response to anyone wronged by a malicious Irishman is, "well, what did you expect? It’s really your fault. He's an Irish N-word, and you allowed him to talk to you, anyway."

    The Irish cannot be changed. They can only be successfully threatened, sometimes. Otherwise jail is the only way to get them to consistently contribute to a society, bsimply by not being around. And btw, there’s no typical Irishman who has ever gained entry to the vagina of a proper WASP while she was awake, unthreatened, sober, and of sound mind. It’s simply impossible.


    An Anecdote Illustrating Something of the Irish Character by P.J. O'Rourke:

    There was an Irishman who got so drunk while visiting Rome, that he kissed his wife, and beat the Pope's foot to a pulp with a coal shovel.

  46. Chad Ludington and friends were probably the most prominent accusers of Kavanaugh being a bad drinker. Pretty sure Chad’s not a Jew, and assume the others aren’t either.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    I had assumed his Yale roommate James Roche is jewish.
    , @reiner Tor
    I used to drink a lot. Sometimes I had shady memories, but rarely did I miss a lot. It did happen a few times, but I always looked pretty drunk, even when I remembered everything. But sometimes I was so embarrassed that I claimed that I didn’t remember.

    On the other hand, I had a friend (he was also a roommate for a year) who drank roughly the same amounts as I did, but was a much bigger, taller, more muscular guy, and he rarely looked as drunk as I did. Often he talked as if he wasn’t drunk at all. Yet very often he didn’t remember anything at all. He was genuinely surprised by things where he was present, and behaved as if he never saw those things (until being told by us). I remember that there were instances where he couldn’t have faked it, because it wasn’t even embarrassing for him and it made no sense to behave as if he didn’t remember. After I had been drinking with him for a year, I could already tell if he was drunk (which in his case meant that he wouldn’t remember the next day anything), but those who didn’t know him thought that he wasn’t even drunk at all.

    So it’s difficult to tell if a drinking buddy has blackouts, though perhaps not impossible for roommates.
    , @Joe Walker
    If the Democrats really had a problem with heavy drinking, they would have kicked Ted Kennedy out of the party after Chappaquiddick. The real reason they hate Kavanaugh is because he is a social conservative, especially on issues such as abortion.
  47. Bret Stephens likes Justice Brett so much he writes his first pro-Trump column.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/opinion/trump-kavanaugh-ford-allegations.html

    Two things that unite the GOP the most are dislike of Hillary Clinton and desire for a GOP Supreme Court.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The two political parties are the anti-Republicans and the anti-Democrats.
  48. @F0337
    Tom Wolfe's world almost seems quaint now.
    He's lucky to have taken leave.

    It doesn’t seem quaint, because the same dynamic applies today. The difference today is that the Bronx D.A. looks like this, but Wolfe predicted that too. His assistant D.A.’s in Bonfire lament that they’ll never get the opportunity to climb the pyramid because the NAMs will take over the elected leadership before then.

    • Replies: @Lot
    The last white Bronx DA held the office impressively long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Merola_(lawyer)
  49. This kind of Jewish-run ethnic stereotyping of Irish-Americans should be cause for concern for the leftists over at Irish Central, who go ballistic over Wal-Mart selling “F*** me I’m Irish” t-shirts. Policing anti-Irish defamation is one of Niall O’Dowd’s life missions. And yet, whaddaya know. O’Dowd has thrown Kavanaugh under the bus and kneecapped him with a shillelagh.

    Note to Irish-Americans: expect no help from the Hibernian Abe Foxman if you believe in limited government and gun rights.

    • Replies: @Evocatus
    O'Dowd is a pretty much a Clinton bootlicker so it's not at all surprising that he'd throw Kavanaugh or any right of center Irish-American public figure under the bus.

    In fairness, he did come to the defense of the Irish community in Breezy Point back in 2013 after Hurricane Sandy, when a New York Times reporter decided that the existence of a white Irish Catholic enclave in New York City was overly problematic:

    https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/niallodowd/defending-the-irish-community-against-racist-claims-in-new-york-times-same-old-story-as-hurricane-sandy-relief-efforts-questioned-191656051-238170521
    , @Joe Walker
    Niall O'Dowd panders to anyone who runs the Democratic party which is why he is such a philo-Semite. Most Irish-Americans - at least those who have heard of him - consider O'Dowd to be a joke.
  50. Like Brett Kavanaugh, I was born into and raised in a large Irish American Catholic family (60 first cousins), graduated in 1987 from a Jesuit high school that was largely Irish American, and then went on to a prestigious university that had been founded by and at the time was still dominated by WASPs, a group I was never tempted to think of myself as belonging to, though I had no animus towards them. As I did for years, I expect that Kavanaugh thought of the Jews as an intelligent, industrious, materialistic, highly driven, neurotic, nepotistic, physically unappealing bunch of dorkwads and sluts who, for all that, were grounded in some sort of semi-related religious/moral code that, along with a seemingly somewhat comparable immigrant experience to ours, made us at least partially compatible. I imagine that after the past few weeks he now knows otherwise.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Jake
    I hope he knows better now. But his knowing better has to be about much more than Jews.
  51. @Lot
    Bret Stephens likes Justice Brett so much he writes his first pro-Trump column.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/opinion/trump-kavanaugh-ford-allegations.html

    Two things that unite the GOP the most are dislike of Hillary Clinton and desire for a GOP Supreme Court.

    The two political parties are the anti-Republicans and the anti-Democrats.

  52. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    I think Jewish attitudes on Irish-Americans fall into roughly two camps:

    1. Those who see the Irish as fellow underdogs, plucky outsiders struggling against a corrupt and hostile establishment. They find the more stereotypical blue-collar Irishness charming, and many will marry Irish Catholics and/or give their children Irish names. The young Jewish prosecutor in Bonfire is a good example. I think Matthew Weiner of Mad Men is another one (Peggy being far and away the most likable and respectable character in the show, cf. Betty the prototypical old-money east-coast ice queen).

    2. Those who see the Irish as coarse and uncivilized brutes, hateful crypto-fascist bigots who are also competitors for a place at the table in the American establishment. Dianne Feinstein is definitely of this type; I suspect Paul Krugman is as well.

    What determines which camp a person falls into, I think, is their attitude towards WASPs; if you find them deplorable and wish to usurp them you’re part of the first group, whereas if you find them aspirational and wish to join them you’re part of the second group.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Feinstein was sent to the elite Catholic girls' school in San Francisco, which means that she spent her formative years surrounded by Irish-American Catholics with money.
    They won't have been her only classmates however; scions of families like the Folgers and the de Guignes will have improved the tone considerably.
    I'm not sure how many of you have noticed, but the woman has a very upper-class manner in speech, style of dress, and hair-style (unchanged for many decades).
    She reminds me of two aristocratic women I knew (one a countess, the other the wife a a baron whose title originated in the 14th century). Both were Catholics, and it is that sort of Catholic culture which rubbed off on her.
    So I think you are correct to say that she is a member of your second camp; Kavanaugh will not have impressed her.
  53. Anonymous[793] • Disclaimer says:
    @slumber_j

    The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness.
     
    This is a very good and astute insight that I never would have come up with. And that's despite the fact that I'm familiar with the phenomenon and know exactly when I became aware of it.

    In college I took two poetry-writing seminars, one with a guy named Michael Blumenthal and the other with Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory and future Nobelist Seamus Heaney. One morning in the Blumenthal era he was seeming distinctly (and uncharacteristically, and sheepishly) rough as the class assembled, and once we were all there he felt compelled to account for it.

    "I went out last night with Seamus Heaney for drinks, which we do every year," he said. "Jews can't drink."

    Actually, I'd argue that it's the Irish who can't drink, and I say that as about a one-third Irishman myself. But I knew what he meant.

    Of the many Jews I've met, I've only known one really big drinker. Perhaps significantly, he's Sephardic.

    As I remember, from psych classes as an undergrad, nearly everyone who claims to not remember what happened when they were drunk are lying and do remember it but prefer not to be associated with some of the things they did and foolish things they said. It’s basically an excuse.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's my understanding that there really is such a thing as a blackout drunk, just as some people who have traumatic brain injury often have no memory of their accidents. It's related to the science stuff that BF was talking about.

    Under certain circumstances (including very high levels of alcohol and getting bopped in the head) it's possible to disrupt the processes of the brain so that no long term memory traces are formed. Your brain is a very complex computer whose functionings we are just beginning to understand. Most of the stuff that happens every day goes right by and you remember it for only a few hours (what you had for dinner last night) or seconds (a phone # from the time you read it until the time you dial it) but certain memories are filed away (with some crazy filing/cross-referencing system no one understands) permanently. If something disrupts this process then the stuff is never written to your drive and it's literally impossible to retrieve it later - it's just not there, like some document that you had on your screen when the computer crashed and you hadn't clicked save yet.

    , @reiner Tor
    I had a roommate who didn’t remember people he met or a certain guy coming to a party. “He promised he’d come but he didn’t.” “He came after 1am.” “Really?” “Yeah, you talked to him ten minutes.” After several such issues I became convinced that he genuinely didn’t remember. I learned not to tell him important things while he was drunk.

    But it was one unusual guy. Interestingly, he started visiting a doctor, an addictologist, due to his drinking problem, in recent years. Whereas most of the rest of us stopped drinking after graduation.
  54. @Dave Pinsen
    It doesn’t seem quaint, because the same dynamic applies today. The difference today is that the Bronx D.A. looks like this, but Wolfe predicted that too. His assistant D.A.’s in Bonfire lament that they’ll never get the opportunity to climb the pyramid because the NAMs will take over the elected leadership before then.

    The last white Bronx DA held the office impressively long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Merola_(lawyer)

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Lot:

    Bob Grant, once NYC's premier radio talk show conservative, had a personal encounter with Merola who lamented what would eventually happen to law enforcement and the criminal justice system in the Bronx.
  55. @Jack D
    In my experience, Ashkenazi Jews have a lot less desire to drink that the Irish. I know a lot of Jews who simply never drink, like Trump - just don't like it. They go out and they have ice tea. Alcohol is just not recreational for them. Also a lot of Jews (like myself) who will sometimes have a glass of wine or two at dinner but who rarely if ever get rip roaring drunk.

    But, when Jews DO drink, they can hold their alcohol pretty well. They are not like Asians who turn beet red. The fact that they have a high tolerance for the stuff may mean that they get less enjoyment from it.

    I have no data for this - this is just my personal impression.

    It’s because your wine has a reputation for tasting awful.

  56. @Dave Pinsen
    Chad Ludington and friends were probably the most prominent accusers of Kavanaugh being a bad drinker. Pretty sure Chad’s not a Jew, and assume the others aren’t either.

    https://twitter.com/raverbruggen/status/1048214899317530624?s=21

    I had assumed his Yale roommate James Roche is jewish.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Roche is an Irish surname of Norman descent.
    , @Art Deco
    Roche is a Norman name common in Ireland. All the Fitz names are Norman.
  57. @Jack D
    In my experience, Ashkenazi Jews have a lot less desire to drink that the Irish. I know a lot of Jews who simply never drink, like Trump - just don't like it. They go out and they have ice tea. Alcohol is just not recreational for them. Also a lot of Jews (like myself) who will sometimes have a glass of wine or two at dinner but who rarely if ever get rip roaring drunk.

    But, when Jews DO drink, they can hold their alcohol pretty well. They are not like Asians who turn beet red. The fact that they have a high tolerance for the stuff may mean that they get less enjoyment from it.

    I have no data for this - this is just my personal impression.

    Genetics.

    There is North-South cline in alcoholism rates (not that Kav is a dipso). Middle Easterners and South Europeans have been growing grain for a lot longer than the Irish and Scots, and so the genes that make you susceptible have been winnowed out to a greater extent.

    For the same reason, Plains Indian reservations like Pine Ridge are a disaster zone, but Mexican Indians can mostly handle booze without societal collapse.

    • Replies: @Lot
    It isn't purely north south. Germans and northern French handle alcohol just fine, while southern Russians and Ukrainians don't.

    The far north Germanics in Scandinavia have a higher rate of problem drinking, possibly because they had cleaner drinking water and lower population densities and didn't benefit from drinking beer, and not only because of later introduction of grain farming and beer brewing.

    I tried pulque, the Mexican pre-Colombian fermented alcoholic drink. Perhaps the most disgusting thing I ever tasted, like sour milk. Wikipedia implies it wasn't widely used enough to result in a genetic protection against alcoholism. The economic gap between Pine Ridge and the US mean is about the same as Indio villages and the Mexican mean.
  58. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    That’s presumption of God’s mercy. You have to be truly sorry for your sins and want to avoid committing them again.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That’s presumption of God’s mercy. You have to be truly sorry for your sins and want to avoid committing them again.
     
    Absolutely. Ran out of “Agree.” There is still so much ignorance about Catholicism, now made even worse by increasing secularization.
  59. @Lot
    "other drunk people remember every embarrassing detail."

    You mean fun and hilarious detail!

    Sometimes your friends will be happy to tell you exactly what you did….

  60. Sure he’s not Irish, but I’m still upset that Rick von Sloneker from Metropolitan hasn’t become the go-to pop culture touchstone for this case. A guy everyone wants to be the worst sort of sexual abuser who ends up just being a rather vanilla frat boy.

  61. Anonymous[793] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    I have never had the slightest memory loss, even those nights when I was 18 and had 15 hard liquor drinks.

    Even now I remember stumbling home through town and trying to stay awake enough to drink a big glass of water before bed to avoid a dehydration hangover.

    If Kav really had a weak stomach, that makes blackouts even less likely as he'd purge some of the alcohol before it reached his blood and brain.

    I never really got into drinking much, even in college. A few times getting really ripped my freshman year and dealing with the consequences – nausea and vomiting, stumbling around and spraining my ankle, feeling like 10 pounds of crap in a five pound bag the next day, doing terrible on a test; at a time in my life when I was pinching pennies harder than any other time in my life, I thought – I paid good money for this? Felt like most people were absolute idiots for worshipping this crap. Really made me wonder why so many people could become raging addicts to this stuff.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    There’s a level of intoxication that’s very enjoyable, particularly in good company. Most people, particularly young people, overshoot it.
    , @Lot
    I was blessed from 18-25. Almost never had a hangover and never vomited from heavy drinking. Lucky genes plus sticking to unmixed liquor and a glass of water every 4 or 5 drinks, then another glass before bed.

    Also did magic mushrooms a couple dozen times and never had a bad trip.

    Now I do get hangovers unfortunately and am not brave enough to eat mushrooms anymore.
  62. In reality, some drunk people forget, like in The Hangover, other drunk people remember every embarrassing detail.

    I’ve been telling people this lately about the Kavanaugh matter, that some people just have a bulletproof memory that’s immune to alcohol such that there’s no way to know whether they’ve ever had a blackout just based on how much they drink, because I’m one of them as well. (I have Irish ancestry down one side of my family and 23andme pegs me at a little over 40% “British and Irish,” so maybe it is genetic.) I regularly got hammered in the military and college in my 20s, and too often did some really stupid things that I wished I could forget, but nope, “every embarrassing detail” sums it up. I’ve also never passed out from drinking either. And this is having been drunk enough at times that I couldn’t even keep my balance sitting down.

    The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness. Thus, Jewish pundits have tended to be particularly outraged by Kavanaugh’s contention that he has never drunk so much that he lost recollection.

    Nate Silver (Fivethiryeight) has been particularly obsessed on Twitter about this, convinced that Kavanaugh has to be lying.

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @M.A
    I'm 91% Irish, the rest Scandinavian and Iberian, and I too remember everything that I ever did while " having drink taken ". ( a polite Irish euphemism for being drunk. )
  63. The Irish Catholics feel guilty about their actual sins (a healthy phenomenon, otherwise they would be psychopaths). The liberal typically feels guilty about some perceived wrong in the world that might have some vague connection to him (people are starving in Botswana). By becoming active against such ills, they absolve themselves of their feelings of guilt, without actually confronting their actual sins.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    The liberal typically feels guilty about some perceived wrong in the world that might have some vague connection to him (people are starving in Botswana). By becoming active against such ills, they absolve themselves of their feelings of guilt, without actually confronting their actual sins.
     
    What is funny is that your comment jogged my memory and made me recall Harvey Weinstein's first public statement following the discovery of his lechery - boy this really is the fault of Trump and Wayne LaPierre, isn't it?
  64. @Lot
    I have never had the slightest memory loss, even those nights when I was 18 and had 15 hard liquor drinks.

    Even now I remember stumbling home through town and trying to stay awake enough to drink a big glass of water before bed to avoid a dehydration hangover.

    If Kav really had a weak stomach, that makes blackouts even less likely as he'd purge some of the alcohol before it reached his blood and brain.

    Are you about half Irish, yourself?

    • Replies: @Lot
    Half AJ and the other half German and British.

    There was not a single Irish Catholic or Italian in any of my K-12 schools (but many German and West Slavic Catholics).
  65. @Lot
    The last white Bronx DA held the office impressively long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Merola_(lawyer)

    Lot:

    Bob Grant, once NYC’s premier radio talk show conservative, had a personal encounter with Merola who lamented what would eventually happen to law enforcement and the criminal justice system in the Bronx.

  66. The Catholic girls, on the other hand… The ones who go bad… Fun times.

    My wife just told me about a conversation she had this week with a friend whose daughter goes to a Catholic girls high school. It sounds like there’s a lot of drinking and f*cking going on. What they say about repressed girls is true: some of them go wild.

    The freakiest girl I dated in college was Catholic. She smoked, did drugs and brought boys home from the clubs. By the time I dated her she had a reputation. Hilariously, she told me that when she had children she was going to insist that they go a Catholic church, catechism, the whole thing, and receive the same indoctrination she did.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    We like to know which rules we're breaking.
    , @Twinkie

    What they say about repressed girls is true: some of them go wild.
     
    Most “Catholic” schools are neither Catholic nor “repressive.”

    Don’t forget that only a minority of Catholics are actual Catholics, i.e. follow the teachings of the Church and live them.
  67. @Anonymous
    I never really got into drinking much, even in college. A few times getting really ripped my freshman year and dealing with the consequences - nausea and vomiting, stumbling around and spraining my ankle, feeling like 10 pounds of crap in a five pound bag the next day, doing terrible on a test; at a time in my life when I was pinching pennies harder than any other time in my life, I thought - I paid good money for this? Felt like most people were absolute idiots for worshipping this crap. Really made me wonder why so many people could become raging addicts to this stuff.

    There’s a level of intoxication that’s very enjoyable, particularly in good company. Most people, particularly young people, overshoot it.

  68. As Steve as pointed out, there’s a real “Revenge of the Nerds” quality to the press coverage of Kavanaugh. Its seems that Brett Kavanaugh reminds them of all those Jocks in HS that dated the Cheerleaders and pulled their shorts off in PE Class.

    The Jewish nerds misunderstanding of Irish drinking is a twist on all this. But its a WASP misunderstanding too. After all, USA Prohibition was a WASP thing. The evils of drinking and all that. For example, Kavanaugh’s Yalie roommate Roche seems to have thought Kavanaugh was a super-drunk because he came back to the Dorm “plastered” every once and a while.

    Roche also doesn’t seem to understand the difference between “Passed out” and “Blacked out”. Very few drinkers “black out” and it has nothing to do with how much you drink, although most people who do “black out” require large amounts of booze to do so. Most of the time, its impossible for someone to know if a drinker has “blacked out” unless the drinker tell them.

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    There is also a difference between blacked out and simply not remembering.
  69. @Cagey Beast
    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.

    Lace curtain Irish (ie upwardly mobile)

    Different from the rest. With upwardly mobile types there will be an effort to avoid public shame way more than usual

  70. @AndrewR
    Irish Catholics probably do drink more than most groups, but, in this entire political circus, which I've followed relatively closely, I have heard and read no references to his Irishness or Catholicness outside of this blog, while I've read many, many references to his whiteness.

    It would be interesting to discuss the evolution (and disappearance) of Irish Catholic American identity and culture over time. I think it's safe to say that, by the election of JFK to the presidency, "Irish Catholic" had become a relatively meaningless distinction in American politics and culture. Certainly it is even more meaningless now. But doubtlessly, differences still exist even if very few people are conscious of them.

    Now Teddy, there was an Irish Catholic American that we all can admire for his moderation when confronting “demon rum .” Like Christine at the party in 1982, he only had one beer.

  71. Well on Jews with thin guilt feelings I’ve discovered where Harvey Weinstein is hiding until he can make his comeback. Playing bass guitar for Brian Ferry. (And good too.)

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    Bugger. Sorry. I meant this one. Harvey comes up quickly...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOcbONX5rs
  72. anon[133] • Disclaimer says:

    Wow… I wrote a long comment on Irish Catholic guilt elsewhere just yesterday, but it didn’t go through for some reason. And now here this post is… it can only be a sign from the commenting gods, and I am not one to ignore such.

    —————————

    Theory:

    I don’t think Catholics are uniquely prone to guilt. I think Catholicism has certain features (e.g. confession, original sin) that are uniquely appealing to a people with a propensity for guilt. Such peoples populate NW Europe. (This might explain why the Church was so successful in spreading to these areas.)

    Look at Germany, Scandinavia: these are ostensibly Protestant countries, yet they’re all trying harder than anyone to atone for past sins, real or imagined.

    Then look at Catholic Italy, Spain, etc. Italy was an Axis power too; Spain colonised half the world, killed more natives than anyone, etc. Doesn’t seem to be weighing on them much.

    It’s high-trust, peaceful NW Europe that is especially prone to guilt. This is why they were able to maintain such a society in the first place. It couldn’t have worked unless something stopped them from stealing even when they wouldn’t get caught: internal shame, a sense of guilt. You may have heard “The English have a policeman in their heads.” Well, so too do the Germans, the Dutch, the Scandinavians…

    Original sin must make tremendous sense to a people continually burdened by feelings of guilt, and confession/atonement must be very appealing also.

    Protestantism perhaps de-emphasises these elements, and so obscures them. Under Catholicism, they are quite explicit.

    So: a Protestant people like 19th century Americans may not notice their own propensity towards guilt. Protestantism does not make it explicit, and being racially homogenous – all NW Europeans – also makes it hard to recognise, in the same way that fish don’t know that they’re wet.

    First major Catholic migration – at least the first major English-speaking such – are the Irish, whose Catholicism and/or public drunkenness and/or greater demonstrativeness makes such a connection explicit. Subsequent Catholic migrations are from guilt-free non-English-speaking Italians, Mexicans, etc., none of whom are able to displace the already-formed opinion.

    Hence America comes to understand Irish Catholics, and therefore Catholics, as guilt-prone. And the rest of the world too, since their perspective is shaped by American media.

    • Agree: Marat
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Guilt by religion:

    Episcopalian: What I did was in atrocious taste.

    Methodist: I must not have been working hard enough, or this would not have happened.

    Calvinist: Guess this proves I'm not one of the Elect after all. WTH...May as well go out and sin again.

    Jewish: This will kill your father when he hears about it.

    Catholic: My sins killed Christ!
  73. OT: 2018 Nobel Prize in Physics

    According to the well-known Czech theoretical physicist and a blogger Lubos
    Motl (who was apparently banished from Harvard for being a conservative,
    Leonard Susskind – a physicist associated with the discredited landscape
    scenario in string theories – would introduce him everywhere as “my right-wing
    friend”), Mourou has over 43,000 citations, Ashkin has some 25,000+ citations,
    and Donna Strickland has below 9,000 citations (and many of these refer to
    the paper she co-authored as a grad student), clearly a substandard record
    of accomplishment. Hence the claim that Donna Strickland is a diversity
    Nobel Prize laureate is well justified. There goes the prestige of the Nobel
    Prizes in the hard sciences.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    That’s what I was asking in the other thread. I’m sure that both the physicists proposing candidates and the committee felt that they needed to propose and choose a woman, respectively.
  74. @PV van der Byl
    Are you about half Irish, yourself?

    Half AJ and the other half German and British.

    There was not a single Irish Catholic or Italian in any of my K-12 schools (but many German and West Slavic Catholics).

  75. @Jack D
    In my experience, Ashkenazi Jews have a lot less desire to drink that the Irish. I know a lot of Jews who simply never drink, like Trump - just don't like it. They go out and they have ice tea. Alcohol is just not recreational for them. Also a lot of Jews (like myself) who will sometimes have a glass of wine or two at dinner but who rarely if ever get rip roaring drunk.

    But, when Jews DO drink, they can hold their alcohol pretty well. They are not like Asians who turn beet red. The fact that they have a high tolerance for the stuff may mean that they get less enjoyment from it.

    I have no data for this - this is just my personal impression.

    I’ve read a theory that Jews don’t drink much as their ancestors didn’t want to lose control living in the midst of sometimes hostile Slavs in Eastern Europe.

  76. @Anonymous
    I never really got into drinking much, even in college. A few times getting really ripped my freshman year and dealing with the consequences - nausea and vomiting, stumbling around and spraining my ankle, feeling like 10 pounds of crap in a five pound bag the next day, doing terrible on a test; at a time in my life when I was pinching pennies harder than any other time in my life, I thought - I paid good money for this? Felt like most people were absolute idiots for worshipping this crap. Really made me wonder why so many people could become raging addicts to this stuff.

    I was blessed from 18-25. Almost never had a hangover and never vomited from heavy drinking. Lucky genes plus sticking to unmixed liquor and a glass of water every 4 or 5 drinks, then another glass before bed.

    Also did magic mushrooms a couple dozen times and never had a bad trip.

    Now I do get hangovers unfortunately and am not brave enough to eat mushrooms anymore.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Based on what I’ve read, It looks like there has actually been some selection for various traits that can make you either tend towards being able to moderate drinking without addiction (likely because alcohol was probably a staple in places like continental Europe) or have a bad time when exposed to alcohol or it’s metabolic breakdown products such that you have a dislike of drinking and avoid it. People with little ancestral exposure to alcohol often end up over drinking without the requisite restraints to moderate it and become alcoholics.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Drinking a quart+ of water before going to bed will help with the dehydration hangover that alcohol produces.
  77. Irish-Americans should feel guilty for NORAID, Chris Matthews and what they did to St. Patrick’s Day.

  78. Anonymous [AKA "Hdhd"] says:
    @Malcolm X-Lax
    I had assumed his Yale roommate James Roche is jewish.

    Roche is an Irish surname of Norman descent.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    Roche is also an Ashkenazic variation of Rauch. Plus he doesn't look terribly Irish.

    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=roch
  79. @AndrewR
    That type of memory is more valuable than almost anything else in politics.

    A guy I know campaigned for Hillary in 2008. He met her once briefly then didn't see her for months, and she remembered his name.

    Bill Clinton used to keep cue cards with names and personal details of all his acquaintances at college, so don’t think it’s necessarily a knack that they have.

    Hillary probably had someone whisper your mate’s name in her ear just before he approached.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Possibly, but some people definitely have better face and name recall abilities than others.
  80. @Lot
    I have never had the slightest memory loss, even those nights when I was 18 and had 15 hard liquor drinks.

    Even now I remember stumbling home through town and trying to stay awake enough to drink a big glass of water before bed to avoid a dehydration hangover.

    If Kav really had a weak stomach, that makes blackouts even less likely as he'd purge some of the alcohol before it reached his blood and brain.

    Good point. I was a heavy drinker for almost 10 years. Started drinking at 14 , almost once per week I would drink and usually have 6 to 12 drinks and never blacked-out in high school. In college I drank about 4 nights per week , getting drunk almost twice each week while living in a fraternity for 4 years….after graduating and getting a job on Wall Street I was drinking 5 nights per week, usually had 4-5 drinks after work and on Friday typically consumed 10 drinks. But only blacked out 3 times in college and twice after graduating. The times I blacked-out were the result of consuming about 20 drinks…I only puked twice in my life from drinking.

    Slowed down my drinking at age 27 because I started getting hangovers. Never had significant hangovers until I was 21 and they kept getting worse. Stopped drinking because hated wasting too many saturdays hungover and I started dating a girl who never drank an ounce of booze. Made it easy to stop and I realized life was much better without booze.

  81. Like the Left with Harry Potter, you can’t stop shoehorning in Tom Wolfe no matter the situation.

    Read a different book. FFS you could write an article entitled “SCOTUS must flow” and go on about how the Kavenaugh nomination is akin to the situation after the Atredies were nearly wiped out by the machinations of the Harkonnens and the Emperor, but in trying to destroy an enemy they only made a greater one inevitably.

    Its a half ass reach from there to comparing separation of powers to the Landsraad, Emperor, Guild tripod in Dune. But we get it: you’ve read Tom Wolfe.

  82. @jimmyriddle
    Genetics.

    There is North-South cline in alcoholism rates (not that Kav is a dipso). Middle Easterners and South Europeans have been growing grain for a lot longer than the Irish and Scots, and so the genes that make you susceptible have been winnowed out to a greater extent.

    For the same reason, Plains Indian reservations like Pine Ridge are a disaster zone, but Mexican Indians can mostly handle booze without societal collapse.

    It isn’t purely north south. Germans and northern French handle alcohol just fine, while southern Russians and Ukrainians don’t.

    The far north Germanics in Scandinavia have a higher rate of problem drinking, possibly because they had cleaner drinking water and lower population densities and didn’t benefit from drinking beer, and not only because of later introduction of grain farming and beer brewing.

    I tried pulque, the Mexican pre-Colombian fermented alcoholic drink. Perhaps the most disgusting thing I ever tasted, like sour milk. Wikipedia implies it wasn’t widely used enough to result in a genetic protection against alcoholism. The economic gap between Pine Ridge and the US mean is about the same as Indio villages and the Mexican mean.

    • Replies: @AP

    It isn’t purely north south. Germans and northern French handle alcohol just fine, while southern Russians and Ukrainians don’t.
     
    Ukrainians and Russians handle alcohol very well. They can be lightly buzzed after enough drinks to leave Germans or Frenchmen on the floor.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    German and Northern French have more of the Southern Euro Neolithic Farmer ancestry than do Russians and Ukranians, though.
  83. @MikeatMikedotMike
    No - using the top oligarchs for your example isn't accurate.

    My father's family for example, is a great example of Irish Catholic guilt. The old man is the oldest of 12, born in 1944, so my grandmother was basically pregnant for 16 years until the youngest came in 1960. 6 boys and 6 girls. They lived in Evanston growing up, that is, until Evanston was diversified in the 80's and 90's. They have all since moved to less diverse towns (Glencoe, Woodstock, Wheaton, Skokie)/N by NW Chicago neighborhoods (my old man and the next oldest brother have been retired to state tax-less Florida, and more will follow), where at the reunions they prattle on about equality and racism and taxing the rich while making sure to not live anywhere near blacks and browns. Two of the sisters were never married and had no kids, 4 of them became public school teachers and another one moved to Seattle (one of the unmarried ones) where she is some sort of director for the city art museum or something. The men all married but they are all Daley Democrats through and through. All but 2 were Vietnam War age but only one was drafted and served in Vietnam.

    There are 36 grandkids and they are are all, save myself, standard issue gen-x/early millennial lockstep progressive bots. I sometimes expect them to all speak in unison. I am the only one who joined the military out the 36.

    Interesting in a depressing way, like most everything these days which touches our future as a nation.

    Do any of them still practice their religion?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    I can't say for sure, but my guess is very few of them.
  84. @Hibernian
    I think you have it backwards. I know he's part Lithuanian on his mother's side. Durbin is an Irish name.

    His mother was born in Lithuania. His paternal grandfather was old stock with a long pedigree in the states. ‘Durbin’ is a Norman name. It was his paternal grandmother’s parents who were Irish born. (Family name quite odd: Gaul).

  85. @Bies Podkrakowski
    What is this Catholic Guilt? I've met this term several times, each time used by American author. As I understand it it has something to do with shame, sexuality and repression and needs to be overcame.

    My pet theory: it is something that American Protestants felt that Catholics must have or it was created in American Catholicism by close contact with American Puritanism, which I am told has its share of problems with guilt.

    What most mean here when they talk about Irish Guilt is Irish Catholics from northern cities feeling guilty about blacks being what they are. Your pet theory is correct: it is real, and it is about assimilation.

    For Irish Catholics to begin to be accepted, they had to assimilate. Irish Catholics in the South assimilated to white Southern culture and so tended to do things that Yankee Liberals hated, such as what the Irish did to badly misbehaving blacks in Memphis. Irish Catholics in the North, who were the only group of any size in the North to oppose with force the Yank war to see whites die to free Negroes, assimilated to the Yank culture that won the Civil War, out of which the Negro emerged Numinous. The rich Yankee WASP made the Negro a Numinous sacred cow. If you wanted to be accepted in rich WASP law firms and hospitals and businesses, you had to play along. And one generation’s playing along becomes the next generation’s actual beliefs.

  86. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I had assumed his Yale roommate James Roche is jewish.

    Roche is a Norman name common in Ireland. All the Fitz names are Norman.

    • Replies: @Evocatus
    Fitzpatrick is, or was, originally a Gaelic surname; Mac Giolla Phadraig. The other Fitz surnames (Fitzgerald, Fitzmaurice, Fitzgibbon etc.) are Norman in origin.
  87. @TheLatestInDecay
    Like Brett Kavanaugh, I was born into and raised in a large Irish American Catholic family (60 first cousins), graduated in 1987 from a Jesuit high school that was largely Irish American, and then went on to a prestigious university that had been founded by and at the time was still dominated by WASPs, a group I was never tempted to think of myself as belonging to, though I had no animus towards them. As I did for years, I expect that Kavanaugh thought of the Jews as an intelligent, industrious, materialistic, highly driven, neurotic, nepotistic, physically unappealing bunch of dorkwads and sluts who, for all that, were grounded in some sort of semi-related religious/moral code that, along with a seemingly somewhat comparable immigrant experience to ours, made us at least partially compatible. I imagine that after the past few weeks he now knows otherwise.

    I hope he knows better now. But his knowing better has to be about much more than Jews.

  88. @Jack D
    My wife's work with learning disabled children puts her in contact with a lot of lace curtain Irish Catholic families (as well as WASPs and Jews) - the kind that send their kids to prep schools. To her, the biggest distinguishing characteristic vs other groups is that Irish Catholics (except perhaps when drunk - she never sees the parents when they are drunk) don't like confrontation or to air dirty family laundry in public. They have a strong sense of shame. They would rather shove a problem under the rug or seeth in passive aggressive fashion than deal with a problem head on and subject themselves to what they think of as public shame.

    We see this, perhaps, in the Catholic Church's approach to pedophile priests. Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again. If you know any modern secular Jewish families that have a disabled family member, or who have been in legal trouble or whatever, they don't try to hide it - they will tell you about it 5 minutes after you have met them (and Jews (Harvey Weinstein) are known for being "shameless" in other ways). Drug addiction, etc. are seen as medical issues like having diabetes and not as moral failures to be ashamed of or hidden from public view.

    In the context of her work, this means that the Jewish families call her when their kid is in first grade and isn't learning to read quite as fast as the other kids and the Irish Catholic families call her halfway thru junior year of high school when their kid is about to flunk out.

    Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again.

    She was getting physically aggressive and had run away from one school where she’d been placed. Joseph P, Kennedy thought this psychosurgery novelty called a ‘lobotomy’ might be the ticket. IIRC, it was performed by Walter Freeman, who’d developed it. Ruined her. She needed 24 hour care the rest of her life (which was a sadly long life). The Kennedy’s promoted the idea ca. 1960 that she was retarded. If I’m not mistaken, there are in archives surviving school assignments she’d completed which have been examined by psychologists, who have in turn said her degree of mastery in mathematics was too pronounced for her to have been retarded.

    • Replies: @Alden
    What happened to Rosemary Kennedy sounds terrible today.

    But the lobotomy and the very expensive institution was the way people with her mental problems were handled at the time. Lobotomy and electric shock therapy were progressive therapy in their day.

    Had she been from a lower middle class family with no siblings able to take care of her and been in a state mental institution she’d have been released by federal court order sometime in the 1970s and ended up homeless and crazy on the street like all the other beneficiaries of Ginsburg’s ACLU lawsuits against mental hospitals.

    A government run by lawsuits settled by judges is the worst kind of government and we live in it.
  89. This chapter of America’s long national nightmare is over. Kavanaugh is confirmed.

    The Jacobin left declares they want an exhaustive investigation. As a Kavanaugh partisan, I fully approve. Please, please let’s get to the bottom of the Defamation Conspiracy and punish the conspirators.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    There will be no investigation. The Dems will move onto the next "outrage" tomorrow.

    I loved this quote from NY Times story:


    Even some of Judge Kavanaugh’s future colleagues sounded unsettled. On Friday, on the eve of the vote, two of them — Justices Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor — expressed concern that the partisan rancor around his nomination would injure the court’s reputation.
     
    Just views from a random cross section of the justices, who are themselves above partisanship. Historically the court has been very collegial, where even political opposites have become closer personal friends (Scalia and Ginsburg). It will be interesting to see if they try to shun K.

    And if what they are saying is true, what caused this partisan rancor? Did it just blow in like a storm or did one party start it? In which party's playbook is this holy rule enshrined : "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."? And don't counter with Garland. The Republicans didn't give Garland a hearing but they never tried to destroy his reputation, never said a single bad word about the man personally or even politically.

  90. @Le Autiste Corv
    I think of Ronald Reagan. I think of Ted Kennedy and Phil Hart. I think of JFK. I think of William F. Buckley. I think of Paul Ryan.

    I think Cromwell did nothing wrong at Drogheda.

    If he’d done nothing maybe there wouldn’t be any Irish-Americans at all…

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Or maybe if he'd done more.....
  91. @slumber_j
    With one of his many great moments in the annals of juridical drunkenness, here's The Fast Show's Rowley Birkin QC as played by the wonderful Paul Whitehouse:

    https://youtu.be/1Cwyq3XWeHE

    slumber j, much thanks. That clip was hilarious and brightened my day.

  92. @Yadd
    My experience with Irish Catholic Guilt is they pull some stupid self-indulgent shit, get caught, feel horrible about it, honestly apologize, their remorse is absolutely authentic, and then later, they pull some variation of the same shit again.

    Rinse, repeat.

    Every Irish Catholic male I’ve known, drunk or not, follows the same process. I don’t know why.

    Another Traditional Feature of the Irish American : Malice.

    I watched most of the hearings, studying Kavanaugh for that go-to Irish American trait, and he had it in spades. Not Supreme Court material. Real lowbrow Irish shit.

    I’d rather see Kavanaugh in the seat, than a progressive liberal, but he’s not the judge I would prefer, if I had other choices. On the other hand, hardcore progressive liberals who decided to dispense with Kavanaugh by any political means necessary, didn’t consider what the outcome would be should they fail:

    Irish American conservative malice demonstrating itself on the Supreme Court for at least the next 30 years. Again, not what I’d like to see, but there ya go.

    Maybe the willingness to sin again is related to the concept that confession wipes your sins clean? I realize this is not what the Church really says (“Go and sin no more”) but it may be some sort of distorted folk interpretation that gets registered, not the official Church teaching.

    If K has malice now (and I wouldn’t doubt it, although I am still wondering if he isn’t hoping to be re-accepted into polite society for the moment. He may bend over backward for a while and he will get zero credit for it from Leftists so he’ll get the message eventually that he is never getting his old life back and is going to be Hitler to Leftists for the rest of his life no matter what – no “strange new respect” for him unless he dies) then who is this malice toward? Malice away, K, let your malice rage!

  93. OT

    Surprised their gay Indian PM hasn’t gotten the NPP yet — maybe Obama’s was a ‘one prize wonder’.

    OT

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    I haven’t seen that many blacks in scrubs since the last time I dropped by the hospital group-sponsored remedial board exam class (they all failed again anyway).
  94. @Hibernian
    I'm sure he paid full price for those additions out of his public salary. They also had a beach house in Michigan. Their Midwestern Hyannisport.

    The house in Michigan the mayor bought when he was past 60. It supposedly was sold to them for about $40,000 (at a time when median home prices were about $20,000), and had 7 rms. I’m betting the Kennedy Kennel at Hyannisport is a trifle more plush.

  95. @Anonymous
    I think Jewish attitudes on Irish-Americans fall into roughly two camps:

    1. Those who see the Irish as fellow underdogs, plucky outsiders struggling against a corrupt and hostile establishment. They find the more stereotypical blue-collar Irishness charming, and many will marry Irish Catholics and/or give their children Irish names. The young Jewish prosecutor in Bonfire is a good example. I think Matthew Weiner of Mad Men is another one (Peggy being far and away the most likable and respectable character in the show, cf. Betty the prototypical old-money east-coast ice queen).

    2. Those who see the Irish as coarse and uncivilized brutes, hateful crypto-fascist bigots who are also competitors for a place at the table in the American establishment. Dianne Feinstein is definitely of this type; I suspect Paul Krugman is as well.

    What determines which camp a person falls into, I think, is their attitude towards WASPs; if you find them deplorable and wish to usurp them you're part of the first group, whereas if you find them aspirational and wish to join them you're part of the second group.

    Feinstein was sent to the elite Catholic girls’ school in San Francisco, which means that she spent her formative years surrounded by Irish-American Catholics with money.
    They won’t have been her only classmates however; scions of families like the Folgers and the de Guignes will have improved the tone considerably.
    I’m not sure how many of you have noticed, but the woman has a very upper-class manner in speech, style of dress, and hair-style (unchanged for many decades).
    She reminds me of two aristocratic women I knew (one a countess, the other the wife a a baron whose title originated in the 14th century). Both were Catholics, and it is that sort of Catholic culture which rubbed off on her.
    So I think you are correct to say that she is a member of your second camp; Kavanaugh will not have impressed her.

    • Replies: @Alden
    In addition to Sacred Heart, her father was a very very wealthy Dr and they lived in the very best of the best neighborhoods, Pacific Heights.

    When she was growing up and until about 1970 the Irish were very powerful politically in San Francisco. Leo MCarthy was speaker of the California assembly. Jerry and his father Pat Brown are Irish catholics Pat Brown was governor and gave her her start in. politics He appointed her to the state parole board. In her first election to board of supervisors in 68 she was surrounded by Irish politicians advisors and political consultants.

    She and Kavanaugh came from the same catholic school wealthy parents milieu. Kavanaugh with mother a judge father president of an ultra prestige country club comes from a more elite background than she does Drs daughter and wife.

    Her third husband is a multimillionaire Chinese slave labor factory operator so financially she’s way way up there. But Dr father and husband were just Dr rich

    Whatever she owes to the Irish catholic politicians who were with her when she started her career, she forgot it long ago as Irish left San Francisco except for the very rich.

    She was beautiful. Tall, 5 8 in flats thin gorgeous Irish stereotype white white skin black hair blue gray eyes and perfect features. She never photographed well. But in person beautiful And she continued wearing her elegant suits when the rest of us were hippies.

    I think marriage to Blum brought her into a Jewish financial elite close to Soros. Maybe she doesn’t have to be nice anymore.
  96. This nice lady on Twitter named Wendy wants Ruth Bader Ginsburg to be more comfortable.

    This nice lady wants Ruth Bader Ginsburg to trade in her black judicial robe for a snug and cozy retirement robe.

    That’s nice!

    Thank you Wendy for your helpful suggestions!

  97. @Anonymous
    As I remember, from psych classes as an undergrad, nearly everyone who claims to not remember what happened when they were drunk are lying and do remember it but prefer not to be associated with some of the things they did and foolish things they said. It’s basically an excuse.

    It’s my understanding that there really is such a thing as a blackout drunk, just as some people who have traumatic brain injury often have no memory of their accidents. It’s related to the science stuff that BF was talking about.

    Under certain circumstances (including very high levels of alcohol and getting bopped in the head) it’s possible to disrupt the processes of the brain so that no long term memory traces are formed. Your brain is a very complex computer whose functionings we are just beginning to understand. Most of the stuff that happens every day goes right by and you remember it for only a few hours (what you had for dinner last night) or seconds (a phone # from the time you read it until the time you dial it) but certain memories are filed away (with some crazy filing/cross-referencing system no one understands) permanently. If something disrupts this process then the stuff is never written to your drive and it’s literally impossible to retrieve it later – it’s just not there, like some document that you had on your screen when the computer crashed and you hadn’t clicked save yet.

  98. @Thomas

    In reality, some drunk people forget, like in The Hangover, other drunk people remember every embarrassing detail.
     
    I've been telling people this lately about the Kavanaugh matter, that some people just have a bulletproof memory that's immune to alcohol such that there's no way to know whether they've ever had a blackout just based on how much they drink, because I'm one of them as well. (I have Irish ancestry down one side of my family and 23andme pegs me at a little over 40% "British and Irish," so maybe it is genetic.) I regularly got hammered in the military and college in my 20s, and too often did some really stupid things that I wished I could forget, but nope, "every embarrassing detail" sums it up. I've also never passed out from drinking either. And this is having been drunk enough at times that I couldn't even keep my balance sitting down.

    The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness. Thus, Jewish pundits have tended to be particularly outraged by Kavanaugh’s contention that he has never drunk so much that he lost recollection.
     
    Nate Silver (Fivethiryeight) has been particularly obsessed on Twitter about this, convinced that Kavanaugh has to be lying.

    I’m 91% Irish, the rest Scandinavian and Iberian, and I too remember everything that I ever did while ” having drink taken “. ( a polite Irish euphemism for being drunk. )

  99. @Dave Pinsen
    Chad Ludington and friends were probably the most prominent accusers of Kavanaugh being a bad drinker. Pretty sure Chad’s not a Jew, and assume the others aren’t either.

    https://twitter.com/raverbruggen/status/1048214899317530624?s=21

    I used to drink a lot. Sometimes I had shady memories, but rarely did I miss a lot. It did happen a few times, but I always looked pretty drunk, even when I remembered everything. But sometimes I was so embarrassed that I claimed that I didn’t remember.

    On the other hand, I had a friend (he was also a roommate for a year) who drank roughly the same amounts as I did, but was a much bigger, taller, more muscular guy, and he rarely looked as drunk as I did. Often he talked as if he wasn’t drunk at all. Yet very often he didn’t remember anything at all. He was genuinely surprised by things where he was present, and behaved as if he never saw those things (until being told by us). I remember that there were instances where he couldn’t have faked it, because it wasn’t even embarrassing for him and it made no sense to behave as if he didn’t remember. After I had been drinking with him for a year, I could already tell if he was drunk (which in his case meant that he wouldn’t remember the next day anything), but those who didn’t know him thought that he wasn’t even drunk at all.

    So it’s difficult to tell if a drinking buddy has blackouts, though perhaps not impossible for roommates.

  100. The Democrats managed to alienate a rather milquetoast Bush lawyer, unite Trump with the GOPe, and for good measure basically throw away the North Dakota Senate seat.

    Quite a productive two weeks I’d say.

  101. @Steve in Greensboro
    This chapter of America's long national nightmare is over. Kavanaugh is confirmed.

    The Jacobin left declares they want an exhaustive investigation. As a Kavanaugh partisan, I fully approve. Please, please let's get to the bottom of the Defamation Conspiracy and punish the conspirators.

    There will be no investigation. The Dems will move onto the next “outrage” tomorrow.

    I loved this quote from NY Times story:

    Even some of Judge Kavanaugh’s future colleagues sounded unsettled. On Friday, on the eve of the vote, two of them — Justices Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor — expressed concern that the partisan rancor around his nomination would injure the court’s reputation.

    Just views from a random cross section of the justices, who are themselves above partisanship. Historically the court has been very collegial, where even political opposites have become closer personal friends (Scalia and Ginsburg). It will be interesting to see if they try to shun K.

    And if what they are saying is true, what caused this partisan rancor? Did it just blow in like a storm or did one party start it? In which party’s playbook is this holy rule enshrined : “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”? And don’t counter with Garland. The Republicans didn’t give Garland a hearing but they never tried to destroy his reputation, never said a single bad word about the man personally or even politically.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    So two unqualified and overweight lesbians don't like a strong Catholic man with a great family and a somewhat conservative bent....I'm shocked, shocked....
    , @Steve in Greensboro
    I think there will be an investigation.

    Nobody gives a shit about Garland.

    Grassley has been publicly embarrassed by progscum like Feinstein and he seems like the sort of person who takes that sort of stuff seriously.
  102. @Anonymous
    As I remember, from psych classes as an undergrad, nearly everyone who claims to not remember what happened when they were drunk are lying and do remember it but prefer not to be associated with some of the things they did and foolish things they said. It’s basically an excuse.

    I had a roommate who didn’t remember people he met or a certain guy coming to a party. “He promised he’d come but he didn’t.” “He came after 1am.” “Really?” “Yeah, you talked to him ten minutes.” After several such issues I became convinced that he genuinely didn’t remember. I learned not to tell him important things while he was drunk.

    But it was one unusual guy. Interestingly, he started visiting a doctor, an addictologist, due to his drinking problem, in recent years. Whereas most of the rest of us stopped drinking after graduation.

  103. @Anon 2
    OT: 2018 Nobel Prize in Physics

    According to the well-known Czech theoretical physicist and a blogger Lubos
    Motl (who was apparently banished from Harvard for being a conservative,
    Leonard Susskind - a physicist associated with the discredited landscape
    scenario in string theories - would introduce him everywhere as “my right-wing
    friend”), Mourou has over 43,000 citations, Ashkin has some 25,000+ citations,
    and Donna Strickland has below 9,000 citations (and many of these refer to
    the paper she co-authored as a grad student), clearly a substandard record
    of accomplishment. Hence the claim that Donna Strickland is a diversity
    Nobel Prize laureate is well justified. There goes the prestige of the Nobel
    Prizes in the hard sciences.

    That’s what I was asking in the other thread. I’m sure that both the physicists proposing candidates and the committee felt that they needed to propose and choose a woman, respectively.

  104. Anonymous [AKA "Mark Rothschild"] says: • Website
    @Yadd
    My experience with Irish Catholic Guilt is they pull some stupid self-indulgent shit, get caught, feel horrible about it, honestly apologize, their remorse is absolutely authentic, and then later, they pull some variation of the same shit again.

    Rinse, repeat.

    Every Irish Catholic male I’ve known, drunk or not, follows the same process. I don’t know why.

    Another Traditional Feature of the Irish American : Malice.

    I watched most of the hearings, studying Kavanaugh for that go-to Irish American trait, and he had it in spades. Not Supreme Court material. Real lowbrow Irish shit.

    I’d rather see Kavanaugh in the seat, than a progressive liberal, but he’s not the judge I would prefer, if I had other choices. On the other hand, hardcore progressive liberals who decided to dispense with Kavanaugh by any political means necessary, didn’t consider what the outcome would be should they fail:

    Irish American conservative malice demonstrating itself on the Supreme Court for at least the next 30 years. Again, not what I’d like to see, but there ya go.

    You totally nailed it.

    Kavanaugh is a prototypical lace curtain Irish Catholic wanna be WASP, but these folks have all the sad traits of the starving resentful Irish peasants they descend from. Malice that turns into immortal grudges. A almost poragraphic desire for vengance, touching and heartfelt regret for all their sins (there are always plenty).

    Breathtaking insouciance about lying. Look at the Kennedy clan; they still are the same scheming genetic criminals they were when they reached our shores a hundred years ago.

    I’m amused that anyone would think that alcohol abuse it the worst Irish Catholic trait, it’s perhaps their least worst.

    Please don’t think that I hate Irish Catholics. I don’t, I just know them well. They have some good traits such as physical courage and parental respect.

    The Know Nothings were right to try to keep them out of the country, but they are here now so we just make do with the human capital we have and hope for improvement in time.

    As for Kavanaugh, he would not have been my choice. I’m glad he was confirmed. A rejection would have been politically undesirable.

  105. @Rosamond Vincy
    That's presumption of God's mercy. You have to be truly sorry for your sins and want to avoid committing them again.

    That’s presumption of God’s mercy. You have to be truly sorry for your sins and want to avoid committing them again.

    Absolutely. Ran out of “Agree.” There is still so much ignorance about Catholicism, now made even worse by increasing secularization.

  106. @Prester John
    The drinking bit tends towards sweeping generalizations. My father and mother emigrated from Germany and Ireland respectively. As a Galway man of my acquaintance once said "Good combination. Bad fer th' drink." True enough, but my father was a teetotaler and though my Irish -born uncles all drank only one of 'em was an alkie. Supposedly Italians, like Jews, don't drink but as my old Italo-American boss told me "there are more than you think." And some Jews of my acquaintance could bend an elbow with the best. I read somewhere that the biggest drinkers of all are the Rooshians and Aussies.

    I read somewhere that the biggest drinkers of all are the Rooshians and Aussies.

    Close. Koreans: https://qz.com/171191/south-koreans-drink-twice-as-much-liquor-as-russians-and-more-than-four-times-as-much-as-americans/

    • Replies: @Jack D
    This graph is pretty worthless. It only concerns hard liquor and doesn't correct for ABV. The most popular drink in Korea is soju which is a sort of watered down vodka (in its modern iteration) that runs around 40 proof (20% alcohol), whereas Russian vodka is at least twice that, so right way you could cut the Korean # in half.

    If you go beverage by beverage, the national #s vary a lot - Portuguese and Italians drink a lot of wine but not much beer, Germans vice versa and so on. But if you look at total alcohol consumed here are the top 10, in liters per capita, ranked:

    Moldova (17.4 )
    Belarus (17.1)
    Lithuania (16.2)
    Russia (14.5)
    Czech Republic (14.1)
    Romania (12.9)
    Serbia (12.9)
    Australia (12.6)
    Portugal (12.5)
    Slovakia (12.5)

    https://vinepair.com/articles/map-countries-drink-most-alcohol/

    17.4 liters per annum of pure alcohol is 43 1/2 liters of 80 proof vodka or 58 fifths or more than 1 bottle of vodka per person per week for every man woman and child.

    Mexicans and Latin Americans are surprisingly light drinkers although the Muslim world is obviously the lightest.
    , @J.Ross
    >Finns
    >drink significantly less than Russians or for that matter Brazilians
    I doubt this graph.
  107. Steve,

    Fyi, you might already know this, but the Spanish version of the name Kavanaugh is: Kabana.

  108. Kavanaugh is in 50-48

  109. @AndrewR
    Irish Catholics probably do drink more than most groups, but, in this entire political circus, which I've followed relatively closely, I have heard and read no references to his Irishness or Catholicness outside of this blog, while I've read many, many references to his whiteness.

    It would be interesting to discuss the evolution (and disappearance) of Irish Catholic American identity and culture over time. I think it's safe to say that, by the election of JFK to the presidency, "Irish Catholic" had become a relatively meaningless distinction in American politics and culture. Certainly it is even more meaningless now. But doubtlessly, differences still exist even if very few people are conscious of them.

    Back in the day, a lot of American humor depending on ethnic stereotyping – it was all in good fun and not malicious – the Scottish were tight fisted, Irish were drunks, Jewish waiters were rude, etc. But ethnic stereotyping of any kind is now strictly Verboten. (There is no humor in Leftism – the late night TV show monologues no longer consist of jokes, just of nonstop criticism of Trump. ) So of course no one in polite society could mention that all these hard drinking high school girls and boys were Irish Catholics. This is the kind of thing that can only be discussed on racist blogs. Everyone else knows that humans are blank slates so your ethnic origin is of no relevance to your behavior.

    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    Jewish-controlled Hollywood regularly engages in promoting stereotypes about Irish Catholic drunkenness. If you don't believe me check out a show called Shameless.
    , @iffen
    is now strictly Verboten.

    You can't write this anymore.

  110. @AndrewR
    Irish Catholics probably do drink more than most groups, but, in this entire political circus, which I've followed relatively closely, I have heard and read no references to his Irishness or Catholicness outside of this blog, while I've read many, many references to his whiteness.

    It would be interesting to discuss the evolution (and disappearance) of Irish Catholic American identity and culture over time. I think it's safe to say that, by the election of JFK to the presidency, "Irish Catholic" had become a relatively meaningless distinction in American politics and culture. Certainly it is even more meaningless now. But doubtlessly, differences still exist even if very few people are conscious of them.

    The Know Nothings were formally vanquished, but strains of these thoughts were alive and well in the bourroughs, before the current influx. Many bedroom communities of Manhattan had social fallout lines drawn within them, although they seemingly got along on the surface in the 1950s and 60s.

    Many people from my high school were keenly aware of Kavanaugh’s subculture which (imo) was deliberately given a pass – for the greater good. These are nit-picky details of yesteryear’s memories when we had the luxury of rating Our subculture over Their subculture for social sport, in more stable times.

    My impression is the bygones of past social foibles are being publicly dropped and necessarily set aside, as ranks are closing in response to the larger progressive label of “whiteness” This spectacle helped crystallize both polar opposite camps (thanks Obama): the whites and non-whites, in the Narrative anyway.

  111. @anon
    Bill Clinton used to keep cue cards with names and personal details of all his acquaintances at college, so don't think it's necessarily a knack that they have.

    Hillary probably had someone whisper your mate's name in her ear just before he approached.

    Possibly, but some people definitely have better face and name recall abilities than others.

  112. @Jack D
    There will be no investigation. The Dems will move onto the next "outrage" tomorrow.

    I loved this quote from NY Times story:


    Even some of Judge Kavanaugh’s future colleagues sounded unsettled. On Friday, on the eve of the vote, two of them — Justices Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor — expressed concern that the partisan rancor around his nomination would injure the court’s reputation.
     
    Just views from a random cross section of the justices, who are themselves above partisanship. Historically the court has been very collegial, where even political opposites have become closer personal friends (Scalia and Ginsburg). It will be interesting to see if they try to shun K.

    And if what they are saying is true, what caused this partisan rancor? Did it just blow in like a storm or did one party start it? In which party's playbook is this holy rule enshrined : "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."? And don't counter with Garland. The Republicans didn't give Garland a hearing but they never tried to destroy his reputation, never said a single bad word about the man personally or even politically.

    So two unqualified and overweight lesbians don’t like a strong Catholic man with a great family and a somewhat conservative bent….I’m shocked, shocked….

  113. @eah
    OT

    Surprised their gay Indian PM hasn't gotten the NPP yet -- maybe Obama's was a 'one prize wonder'.

    OT

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do2EE45VsAAAJBL.jpg

    I haven’t seen that many blacks in scrubs since the last time I dropped by the hospital group-sponsored remedial board exam class (they all failed again anyway).

  114. Steve, whatever Irish guilt is (and notwithstanding being Irish on both sides and 74 years in this value of tears, I’ve never been able to figure it out), it is not the Irish finding it in their interest to imitate Jewish liberals, which is what Wolfe is talking about.

    I’ve seen a lot of that. After all, it can pay. If it weren’t for Maureen’s occasional references to Kevin and his annual column, no one much would know of his existence. A lot of people know of Maureen’s.

    As they used to say in Boston before the Boston Irish joined all the other micks in imitating Jews, it’s tough when your own kind let you down.

    Or as “Kelly the Boy from Killane,” the old memorial song of one of the Wexford parts of the 1798 rebellion, puts it, “And poor Wexford stripped naked, hung high on a cross/ With her heart pierced by traitors and slaves”.

    There is a quite different etymology for Kavanaugh kicking around. But if yours is right, the proper translation is probably more like religious devotee of (St.) Kevin.

    The name seems to have come to prominence when taken by the son of Dermot McMurrough (to use the anglicization), king of Leinster. Dermot is traditionally execrated as Diarmuid of the Foreigners for getting the Anglo-Normans to invade Ireland in the 1170s. A lot of Irish surnames are of Norman origin, including my mother’s and my in-laws’.

    I should ask my brother Steve about the etymology. He’s been studying Irish at an Irish studies operation in NYC supported by the widow of a rich Jewish guy, who was himself an Irish buff. Steve retired from the editorial board of the New York Daily News. He’s lived for some years more uxorio with a Jewish gal. When asked why he’s never divorced his wife, he says it’s because he’s Catholic.

  115. @Twinkie

    I read somewhere that the biggest drinkers of all are the Rooshians and Aussies.
     
    Close. Koreans: https://qz.com/171191/south-koreans-drink-twice-as-much-liquor-as-russians-and-more-than-four-times-as-much-as-americans/
    https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/liquor-consumption2.png?w=2520&strip=all&quality=75

    This graph is pretty worthless. It only concerns hard liquor and doesn’t correct for ABV. The most popular drink in Korea is soju which is a sort of watered down vodka (in its modern iteration) that runs around 40 proof (20% alcohol), whereas Russian vodka is at least twice that, so right way you could cut the Korean # in half.

    If you go beverage by beverage, the national #s vary a lot – Portuguese and Italians drink a lot of wine but not much beer, Germans vice versa and so on. But if you look at total alcohol consumed here are the top 10, in liters per capita, ranked:

    Moldova (17.4 )
    Belarus (17.1)
    Lithuania (16.2)
    Russia (14.5)
    Czech Republic (14.1)
    Romania (12.9)
    Serbia (12.9)
    Australia (12.6)
    Portugal (12.5)
    Slovakia (12.5)

    https://vinepair.com/articles/map-countries-drink-most-alcohol/

    17.4 liters per annum of pure alcohol is 43 1/2 liters of 80 proof vodka or 58 fifths or more than 1 bottle of vodka per person per week for every man woman and child.

    Mexicans and Latin Americans are surprisingly light drinkers although the Muslim world is obviously the lightest.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    I don’t take this kind of national “competition” seriously.
    , @Anonymous

    Moldova (17.4 )
    Belarus (17.1)
    Lithuania (16.2)
    Russia (14.5)
    Czech Republic (14.1)
    Romania (12.9)
    Serbia (12.9)
    Australia (12.6)
    Portugal (12.5)
    Slovakia (12.5)
     
    Australians represent!

    https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/shit-poster.png
  116. anonymous[355] • Disclaimer says:

    As a Catholic who is half-Irish (other part is Polish/Russian Jew), Catholic guilt to me was mostly about sex and not disappointing my parents (guilt about the basics like lying, cheating, and stealing are in there, too). It worked pretty well, I graduated college a virgin and married a Catholic guy. As for drinking, my Irish father liked his Friday night cocktail before dinner, a beer after mowing the lawn on a hot day, and both my parents liked wine with meals but it was always one or two drinks. Once off the parental leash, I did over-indulge in college but learned fairly quickly to reign it in or my grades would suffer. I’m a social drinker so only have alcohol a couple of times a year these days but I had a ton of fun in my early twenties. When you hit your thirties, hangover headaches seem to be a lot more painful, plus working off the carbs in alcohol becomes a lot tougher.

    This discussion of northeast ethnic stereotypes is a nice trip down memory lane. Can we cover eye-talians (as my Polish grandmother would say) and JAPs (Jewish American Princesses) next? Italians and Irish were the big two in the tri-state area when I was young, though I suppose you could add in Jews, blacks, and Germans.

  117. @Art Deco
    Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again.

    She was getting physically aggressive and had run away from one school where she'd been placed. Joseph P, Kennedy thought this psychosurgery novelty called a 'lobotomy' might be the ticket. IIRC, it was performed by Walter Freeman, who'd developed it. Ruined her. She needed 24 hour care the rest of her life (which was a sadly long life). The Kennedy's promoted the idea ca. 1960 that she was retarded. If I'm not mistaken, there are in archives surviving school assignments she'd completed which have been examined by psychologists, who have in turn said her degree of mastery in mathematics was too pronounced for her to have been retarded.

    What happened to Rosemary Kennedy sounds terrible today.

    But the lobotomy and the very expensive institution was the way people with her mental problems were handled at the time. Lobotomy and electric shock therapy were progressive therapy in their day.

    Had she been from a lower middle class family with no siblings able to take care of her and been in a state mental institution she’d have been released by federal court order sometime in the 1970s and ended up homeless and crazy on the street like all the other beneficiaries of Ginsburg’s ACLU lawsuits against mental hospitals.

    A government run by lawsuits settled by judges is the worst kind of government and we live in it.

  118. @Dutch Boy
    The Irish Catholics feel guilty about their actual sins (a healthy phenomenon, otherwise they would be psychopaths). The liberal typically feels guilty about some perceived wrong in the world that might have some vague connection to him (people are starving in Botswana). By becoming active against such ills, they absolve themselves of their feelings of guilt, without actually confronting their actual sins.

    The liberal typically feels guilty about some perceived wrong in the world that might have some vague connection to him (people are starving in Botswana). By becoming active against such ills, they absolve themselves of their feelings of guilt, without actually confronting their actual sins.

    What is funny is that your comment jogged my memory and made me recall Harvey Weinstein’s first public statement following the discovery of his lechery – boy this really is the fault of Trump and Wayne LaPierre, isn’t it?

  119. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    “Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.”

    My grandmother came from an apostate Catholic family, and this was her take. She told her kids to avoid them for this reason.

    I think it was unfair of her. The practicing Catholics I know aren’t like this. OTOH, I recall some Christmas-and-Easter Catholics I knew at college stating this explicitly as a benefit of “Catholicism”. Still, when they misbehaved it was merely Kavanaugh-ish (yes, they were Irish), so these weren’t exactly criminals. If they weren’t Catholic, I’m sure they would have had some other justification for weekend booze-ups.

  120. @Old Palo Altan
    Interesting in a depressing way, like most everything these days which touches our future as a nation.

    Do any of them still practice their religion?

    I can’t say for sure, but my guess is very few of them.

  121. @Cagey Beast
    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.

    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.

    Nope. American Irish Catholics. The Catholicism just supercharges their perverse nature. It forces them to subjugate their Irishishness. Don’t start trying to defend the Irish Catholics, especially the American ones. They have an historical laundry list of debauchery, malfeasance, lack of self-control, bald-faced perversion, and pointless flightful fancy that has been observed and commented on by many of our founding father’s, all the way forward to contemporary observers, and the Irish social manifest hasn’t changed much, except for the Boston Irish, who are now even worse.

    It’s not by accident that the typical sympathetic response to anyone wronged by a malicious Irishman is, “well, what did you expect? It’s really your fault. He’s an Irish N-word, and you allowed him to talk to you, anyway.”

    The Irish cannot be changed. They can only be successfully threatened, sometimes. Otherwise jail is the only way to get them to consistently contribute to a society, bsimply by not being around. And btw, there’s no typical Irishman who has ever gained entry to the vagina of a proper WASP while she was awake, unthreatened, sober, and of sound mind. It’s simply impossible.

    An Anecdote Illustrating Something of the Irish Character by P.J. O’Rourke:

    There was an Irishman who got so drunk while visiting Rome, that he kissed his wife, and beat the Pope’s foot to a pulp with a coal shovel.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Thanks you, Thomas Nast.
    , @Father O'Hara
    Somewhere I just read an anecdote 'bout the actor Peter O'Toole. Asked by a lady reporter,after his success in "Lawrence",if he is now being chased by hordes of women,he replied," I don't need movies for that!"
  122. @Bragadocious
    This kind of Jewish-run ethnic stereotyping of Irish-Americans should be cause for concern for the leftists over at Irish Central, who go ballistic over Wal-Mart selling "F*** me I'm Irish" t-shirts. Policing anti-Irish defamation is one of Niall O'Dowd's life missions. And yet, whaddaya know. O'Dowd has thrown Kavanaugh under the bus and kneecapped him with a shillelagh.

    https://twitter.com/NiallODowd/status/1044524174759415808

    Note to Irish-Americans: expect no help from the Hibernian Abe Foxman if you believe in limited government and gun rights.

    O’Dowd is a pretty much a Clinton bootlicker so it’s not at all surprising that he’d throw Kavanaugh or any right of center Irish-American public figure under the bus.

    In fairness, he did come to the defense of the Irish community in Breezy Point back in 2013 after Hurricane Sandy, when a New York Times reporter decided that the existence of a white Irish Catholic enclave in New York City was overly problematic:

    https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/niallodowd/defending-the-irish-community-against-racist-claims-in-new-york-times-same-old-story-as-hurricane-sandy-relief-efforts-questioned-191656051-238170521

  123. @Jack D
    There will be no investigation. The Dems will move onto the next "outrage" tomorrow.

    I loved this quote from NY Times story:


    Even some of Judge Kavanaugh’s future colleagues sounded unsettled. On Friday, on the eve of the vote, two of them — Justices Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor — expressed concern that the partisan rancor around his nomination would injure the court’s reputation.
     
    Just views from a random cross section of the justices, who are themselves above partisanship. Historically the court has been very collegial, where even political opposites have become closer personal friends (Scalia and Ginsburg). It will be interesting to see if they try to shun K.

    And if what they are saying is true, what caused this partisan rancor? Did it just blow in like a storm or did one party start it? In which party's playbook is this holy rule enshrined : "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."? And don't counter with Garland. The Republicans didn't give Garland a hearing but they never tried to destroy his reputation, never said a single bad word about the man personally or even politically.

    I think there will be an investigation.

    Nobody gives a shit about Garland.

    Grassley has been publicly embarrassed by progscum like Feinstein and he seems like the sort of person who takes that sort of stuff seriously.

  124. @Lot
    It isn't purely north south. Germans and northern French handle alcohol just fine, while southern Russians and Ukrainians don't.

    The far north Germanics in Scandinavia have a higher rate of problem drinking, possibly because they had cleaner drinking water and lower population densities and didn't benefit from drinking beer, and not only because of later introduction of grain farming and beer brewing.

    I tried pulque, the Mexican pre-Colombian fermented alcoholic drink. Perhaps the most disgusting thing I ever tasted, like sour milk. Wikipedia implies it wasn't widely used enough to result in a genetic protection against alcoholism. The economic gap between Pine Ridge and the US mean is about the same as Indio villages and the Mexican mean.

    It isn’t purely north south. Germans and northern French handle alcohol just fine, while southern Russians and Ukrainians don’t.

    Ukrainians and Russians handle alcohol very well. They can be lightly buzzed after enough drinks to leave Germans or Frenchmen on the floor.

  125. @Old Palo Altan
    Feinstein was sent to the elite Catholic girls' school in San Francisco, which means that she spent her formative years surrounded by Irish-American Catholics with money.
    They won't have been her only classmates however; scions of families like the Folgers and the de Guignes will have improved the tone considerably.
    I'm not sure how many of you have noticed, but the woman has a very upper-class manner in speech, style of dress, and hair-style (unchanged for many decades).
    She reminds me of two aristocratic women I knew (one a countess, the other the wife a a baron whose title originated in the 14th century). Both were Catholics, and it is that sort of Catholic culture which rubbed off on her.
    So I think you are correct to say that she is a member of your second camp; Kavanaugh will not have impressed her.

    In addition to Sacred Heart, her father was a very very wealthy Dr and they lived in the very best of the best neighborhoods, Pacific Heights.

    When she was growing up and until about 1970 the Irish were very powerful politically in San Francisco. Leo MCarthy was speaker of the California assembly. Jerry and his father Pat Brown are Irish catholics Pat Brown was governor and gave her her start in. politics He appointed her to the state parole board. In her first election to board of supervisors in 68 she was surrounded by Irish politicians advisors and political consultants.

    She and Kavanaugh came from the same catholic school wealthy parents milieu. Kavanaugh with mother a judge father president of an ultra prestige country club comes from a more elite background than she does Drs daughter and wife.

    Her third husband is a multimillionaire Chinese slave labor factory operator so financially she’s way way up there. But Dr father and husband were just Dr rich

    Whatever she owes to the Irish catholic politicians who were with her when she started her career, she forgot it long ago as Irish left San Francisco except for the very rich.

    She was beautiful. Tall, 5 8 in flats thin gorgeous Irish stereotype white white skin black hair blue gray eyes and perfect features. She never photographed well. But in person beautiful And she continued wearing her elegant suits when the rest of us were hippies.

    I think marriage to Blum brought her into a Jewish financial elite close to Soros. Maybe she doesn’t have to be nice anymore.

    • Replies: @Flip

    She was beautiful. Tall, 5 8 in flats thin gorgeous Irish stereotype white white skin black hair blue gray eyes and perfect features.
     
    Looking at Wikipedia, it sounds like she is fully of Jewish ancestry.
    , @Art Deco
    1. It was Christine Blasey's father who was president of the Burning Tree Club, not Brett Kavanaugh's (though there are contentions that E.E. Kavanaugh was a member of Burning Tree).

    2. Martha Kavanaugh was a schooteacher-turned prosecutor. She wasn't appointed to the Circuit Court in Maryland until she was past 50 and her son was already a member of the bar landing prestige positions.

    3. Brett Kavanaugh's father was staff director of a trade association - i.e. a lobbyist.

    4. The Browns are Catholic (after a fashion). Pat Brown might make it under the envelope as 'Irish' (really, German / Irish). It's a stretch to use the term for his son.

    5. All three of Feinstein's husbands have been Jewish.

    6. The Mayor of San Francisco when she was elected to the Board of Supervisors was Joseph Alioto.
  126. @Jack D
    Back in the day, a lot of American humor depending on ethnic stereotyping - it was all in good fun and not malicious - the Scottish were tight fisted, Irish were drunks, Jewish waiters were rude, etc. But ethnic stereotyping of any kind is now strictly Verboten. (There is no humor in Leftism - the late night TV show monologues no longer consist of jokes, just of nonstop criticism of Trump. ) So of course no one in polite society could mention that all these hard drinking high school girls and boys were Irish Catholics. This is the kind of thing that can only be discussed on racist blogs. Everyone else knows that humans are blank slates so your ethnic origin is of no relevance to your behavior.

    Jewish-controlled Hollywood regularly engages in promoting stereotypes about Irish Catholic drunkenness. If you don’t believe me check out a show called Shameless.

  127. Must be interesting Thanksgiving dinners at the Dowd family. Maureen is such a ….. well, can’t write the word or I could get banned.

  128. @anon
    Wow... I wrote a long comment on Irish Catholic guilt elsewhere just yesterday, but it didn't go through for some reason. And now here this post is... it can only be a sign from the commenting gods, and I am not one to ignore such.

    ---------------------------

    Theory:

    I don't think Catholics are uniquely prone to guilt. I think Catholicism has certain features (e.g. confession, original sin) that are uniquely appealing to a people with a propensity for guilt. Such peoples populate NW Europe. (This might explain why the Church was so successful in spreading to these areas.)

    Look at Germany, Scandinavia: these are ostensibly Protestant countries, yet they're all trying harder than anyone to atone for past sins, real or imagined.

    Then look at Catholic Italy, Spain, etc. Italy was an Axis power too; Spain colonised half the world, killed more natives than anyone, etc. Doesn't seem to be weighing on them much.

    It's high-trust, peaceful NW Europe that is especially prone to guilt. This is why they were able to maintain such a society in the first place. It couldn't have worked unless something stopped them from stealing even when they wouldn't get caught: internal shame, a sense of guilt. You may have heard "The English have a policeman in their heads." Well, so too do the Germans, the Dutch, the Scandinavians...

    Original sin must make tremendous sense to a people continually burdened by feelings of guilt, and confession/atonement must be very appealing also.

    Protestantism perhaps de-emphasises these elements, and so obscures them. Under Catholicism, they are quite explicit.

    So: a Protestant people like 19th century Americans may not notice their own propensity towards guilt. Protestantism does not make it explicit, and being racially homogenous - all NW Europeans - also makes it hard to recognise, in the same way that fish don't know that they're wet.

    First major Catholic migration - at least the first major English-speaking such - are the Irish, whose Catholicism and/or public drunkenness and/or greater demonstrativeness makes such a connection explicit. Subsequent Catholic migrations are from guilt-free non-English-speaking Italians, Mexicans, etc., none of whom are able to displace the already-formed opinion.

    Hence America comes to understand Irish Catholics, and therefore Catholics, as guilt-prone. And the rest of the world too, since their perspective is shaped by American media.

    Guilt by religion:

    Episcopalian: What I did was in atrocious taste.

    Methodist: I must not have been working hard enough, or this would not have happened.

    Calvinist: Guess this proves I’m not one of the Elect after all. WTH…May as well go out and sin again.

    Jewish: This will kill your father when he hears about it.

    Catholic: My sins killed Christ!

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Catholic: My sins killed Christ!
     
    My favorite one from a Catholic mom to her child: “You made the Blessed Lady” cry!
    , @anon
    Marvellous!

    I would only quibble with the Calvinist, which I think tends to be: "That wasn't a sin at all. How could I sin?"

    Reminds me of Judge Frollo from Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame:

    Beata Maria, you know I am a righteous man
    Of my virtue I am justly proud
  129. OT: National Geographic goes back to first principals in order to understand walls. Admits they were necessary for human civilisation, are good at separating things. (This is what religious deprogramming looks like. When a 4 year old understands something intuitively that is congruent with all observed human actions and history, but, you, an intellectual, explain why it’s actually wrong.)

    ‘Building walls may have allowed civilization to flourish’
    By Simon Worrall

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/10/wall-mexico-trump-book-talk-news/

    They have to contact a professor to understand walls.

    If it is ever built, President Donald Trump’s much-vaunted wall, which is supposed to stretch for nearly 2,000 miles along the United States’s border with Mexico, would be the largest infrastructure project since the U.S. highway system, estimated to cost $18 to $40 billion. But as David Frye reveals in his new book, Walls: A History of Civilization in Blood and Brick, the idea of constructing barriers to keep others out—or, in the case of the Berlin Wall, to keep people in—is as ancient as human civilization. Only the people being shut out have changed.

    Wow, just scintillating information one learns in modern Nat Geo. Seriously this is like a piece from one of those Onion morning talk show parodies.

  130. Well, Kav is confirmed. I wonder when RBG retires, who is Trump’s next Kav off the rank?

  131. @Jack D
    This graph is pretty worthless. It only concerns hard liquor and doesn't correct for ABV. The most popular drink in Korea is soju which is a sort of watered down vodka (in its modern iteration) that runs around 40 proof (20% alcohol), whereas Russian vodka is at least twice that, so right way you could cut the Korean # in half.

    If you go beverage by beverage, the national #s vary a lot - Portuguese and Italians drink a lot of wine but not much beer, Germans vice versa and so on. But if you look at total alcohol consumed here are the top 10, in liters per capita, ranked:

    Moldova (17.4 )
    Belarus (17.1)
    Lithuania (16.2)
    Russia (14.5)
    Czech Republic (14.1)
    Romania (12.9)
    Serbia (12.9)
    Australia (12.6)
    Portugal (12.5)
    Slovakia (12.5)

    https://vinepair.com/articles/map-countries-drink-most-alcohol/

    17.4 liters per annum of pure alcohol is 43 1/2 liters of 80 proof vodka or 58 fifths or more than 1 bottle of vodka per person per week for every man woman and child.

    Mexicans and Latin Americans are surprisingly light drinkers although the Muslim world is obviously the lightest.

    I don’t take this kind of national “competition” seriously.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Alcohol consumption surveys and excise tax records allow good international alcohol consumption comparisons in many countries.
  132. @Yadd
    My experience with Irish Catholic Guilt is they pull some stupid self-indulgent shit, get caught, feel horrible about it, honestly apologize, their remorse is absolutely authentic, and then later, they pull some variation of the same shit again.

    Rinse, repeat.

    Every Irish Catholic male I’ve known, drunk or not, follows the same process. I don’t know why.

    Another Traditional Feature of the Irish American : Malice.

    I watched most of the hearings, studying Kavanaugh for that go-to Irish American trait, and he had it in spades. Not Supreme Court material. Real lowbrow Irish shit.

    I’d rather see Kavanaugh in the seat, than a progressive liberal, but he’s not the judge I would prefer, if I had other choices. On the other hand, hardcore progressive liberals who decided to dispense with Kavanaugh by any political means necessary, didn’t consider what the outcome would be should they fail:

    Irish American conservative malice demonstrating itself on the Supreme Court for at least the next 30 years. Again, not what I’d like to see, but there ya go.

    Irish American conservative malice demonstrating itself on the Supreme Court for at least the next 30 years. Again, not what I’d like to see, but there ya go.

    You are a one post wonder here but I will take the Kavanaugh malice you describe. Any day of the week. This way we get to trade malice for malice with libby Dems and the deranged pussy hatters that swarmed The Capitol the last 7 days.

  133. @Bragadocious
    This kind of Jewish-run ethnic stereotyping of Irish-Americans should be cause for concern for the leftists over at Irish Central, who go ballistic over Wal-Mart selling "F*** me I'm Irish" t-shirts. Policing anti-Irish defamation is one of Niall O'Dowd's life missions. And yet, whaddaya know. O'Dowd has thrown Kavanaugh under the bus and kneecapped him with a shillelagh.

    https://twitter.com/NiallODowd/status/1044524174759415808

    Note to Irish-Americans: expect no help from the Hibernian Abe Foxman if you believe in limited government and gun rights.

    Niall O’Dowd panders to anyone who runs the Democratic party which is why he is such a philo-Semite. Most Irish-Americans – at least those who have heard of him – consider O’Dowd to be a joke.

  134. @Rosamond Vincy
    Guilt by religion:

    Episcopalian: What I did was in atrocious taste.

    Methodist: I must not have been working hard enough, or this would not have happened.

    Calvinist: Guess this proves I'm not one of the Elect after all. WTH...May as well go out and sin again.

    Jewish: This will kill your father when he hears about it.

    Catholic: My sins killed Christ!

    Catholic: My sins killed Christ!

    My favorite one from a Catholic mom to her child: “You made the Blessed Lady” cry!

    • Replies: @Alden
    Someone who went to catholic school in the 1950s told me the nuns told them rain was angels crying because of the sins these little kids committed.

    They married in a catholic church to avoid both sets of parents dying of shame but that was it. No more cahtolicism
  135. @Art Deco
    Roche is a Norman name common in Ireland. All the Fitz names are Norman.

    Fitzpatrick is, or was, originally a Gaelic surname; Mac Giolla Phadraig. The other Fitz surnames (Fitzgerald, Fitzmaurice, Fitzgibbon etc.) are Norman in origin.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Doesn’t Fitz- mean “bastard son of”?
  136. @Dave Pinsen
    Chad Ludington and friends were probably the most prominent accusers of Kavanaugh being a bad drinker. Pretty sure Chad’s not a Jew, and assume the others aren’t either.

    https://twitter.com/raverbruggen/status/1048214899317530624?s=21

    If the Democrats really had a problem with heavy drinking, they would have kicked Ted Kennedy out of the party after Chappaquiddick. The real reason they hate Kavanaugh is because he is a social conservative, especially on issues such as abortion.

  137. @Jack D
    My wife's work with learning disabled children puts her in contact with a lot of lace curtain Irish Catholic families (as well as WASPs and Jews) - the kind that send their kids to prep schools. To her, the biggest distinguishing characteristic vs other groups is that Irish Catholics (except perhaps when drunk - she never sees the parents when they are drunk) don't like confrontation or to air dirty family laundry in public. They have a strong sense of shame. They would rather shove a problem under the rug or seeth in passive aggressive fashion than deal with a problem head on and subject themselves to what they think of as public shame.

    We see this, perhaps, in the Catholic Church's approach to pedophile priests. Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again. If you know any modern secular Jewish families that have a disabled family member, or who have been in legal trouble or whatever, they don't try to hide it - they will tell you about it 5 minutes after you have met them (and Jews (Harvey Weinstein) are known for being "shameless" in other ways). Drug addiction, etc. are seen as medical issues like having diabetes and not as moral failures to be ashamed of or hidden from public view.

    In the context of her work, this means that the Jewish families call her when their kid is in first grade and isn't learning to read quite as fast as the other kids and the Irish Catholic families call her halfway thru junior year of high school when their kid is about to flunk out.

    In the context of her work, this means that the Jewish families call her when their kid is in first grade and isn’t learning to read quite as fast as the other kids and the Irish Catholic families call her halfway thru junior year of high school when their kid is about to flunk out.

    What kind of teacher is your wife that she works with both kids in first grade and in high school?

  138. @Buzz Mohawk
    The Catholic girls, on the other hand... The ones who go bad... Fun times.

    My wife just told me about a conversation she had this week with a friend whose daughter goes to a Catholic girls high school. It sounds like there's a lot of drinking and f*cking going on. What they say about repressed girls is true: some of them go wild.

    The freakiest girl I dated in college was Catholic. She smoked, did drugs and brought boys home from the clubs. By the time I dated her she had a reputation. Hilariously, she told me that when she had children she was going to insist that they go a Catholic church, catechism, the whole thing, and receive the same indoctrination she did.

    We like to know which rules we’re breaking.

    • Replies: @Disordered (with a bad memory)
    Yep. Venial vs mortal sin and the concept of doing penance (faith plus works) help us sleep at night.
  139. A many-layered spectacle.

    On the first layer, it’s absurd that the Committee entertained juvenile antics. We used to have a common culture that agreed that, except for acts of moral deficiency such as burning cats and the like, one’s childhood and adolescent past is not a conclusive indicator of the quality of adult who emerges.

    If one examines Kavanaugh’s adult life, it’s pretty exemplary. He seems to more than made up for any lost time in the past.

    If one then accepts the premise that juvenile life is worthy of scrutiny, one must dissect Ford’s sordid tale, one pathetic detail at a time. The Immaculate Rape Attempt has no mention of bruises, no torn clothes, but lots of laughter and humiliation apparently. Ford is a Grope Survivor. Was Orrin Hatch already musing, “Why don’t you grow up”?

    Then we were treated to an examination of the sorry and drunken Fast Times at Ridgemont High subculture of jocks and sluts. And told to entertain multiple stories about the accused. You can’t be a serial rapist and have time to pull off 4.0s. Even if Kavanaugh fudged on drinking details, he can’t have wasted too much time in hangover state. And, to my knowledge, serial rapists don’t just suddenly stop raping one day after deciding to go cold turkey. Perhaps Sweden is studying this.

    The feminists had a meltdown and demanded that we Believe the Survivor. Then Lindsay and Orrin Hatch proved themselves as Elevator Survivors. MeToo – not our common culture of yore – came close to making the call on what was to be the Senate’s decision. This must be what Hillary means when she refers to “Our Democracy”.

    A simple “Why don’t you grow up” blew up the shrieking gaseous windbags. There’s a lesson there.

    And now it’s likely the “leaker” was in Ford’s camp, to boot. This needs full investigation as it goes to the credibility of the accuser and/or her entire support Apparatus.

  140. @Sean
    Patrick Fitzgerald saw how Giuliani made headlines by catching white Mafia grandfathers, sorry godfathers marching white white collar criminals in through Wall Street in chains.

    http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/57196/
    Patrick Fitzgerald, U.S. Attorney for Illinois’s Northern District, doesn’t pull his punches. Charming, tough, and named one of People’s “sexiest men alive” in 2005, he took down Governor Rod Blagojevich (as well as his predecessor) and got the Times’ Judith Miller imprisoned during the investigation that ended with Scooter Libby’s conviction. Now he’s threatening to take another journalist to court, for defamation and ­libel. And this time, it’s personal. He’s acting as a private citizen defending his public name. The book in question is Peter Lance’s Triple Cross, which was published in November 2006 by Regan Books, a division of Harper­Collins. Lance examines how the FBI and the U.S. Attorney in New York prosecuted terrorists before 9/11, including Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and those who blew up the U.S. embassies in Africa. At that time, Fitzgerald worked for the U.S. Attorney in New York. Lance alleges that Fitzgerald discounted information Lance contends arguably pointed to the existence of a possible Al Qaeda cell in New York five years prior to 9/11.
     

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-lance/al-qaeda-and-the-mob-how-_b_34336.html

    How was it that Fitzgerald, the man Vanity Fair described as the bin Laden “brain,” possessing “scary smart” intelligence, had not connected the dots and ordered the same kind of “perch” or “plant” to watch Sphinx that the Bureau had used against Gotti? Which “stone cold” killer was more a threat to the security of New York City? The Teflon Don or bin Laden’s master spy who cut his deal without giving up those “sleepers” he’d told Fitzgerald about in October of 1997. Here’s an irony in a story pregnant with them:

    Patrick Fitzgerald made his bones as a terror fighter by prosecuting U.S. vs. bin Laden, the trial of the African Embassy bombers that he and squad I-49 failed to stop. As a reward he was appointed U.S. Attorney in Chicago and got tapped as Special Prosecutor in the Valerie Plame CIA leak investigation. We now know that even after learning the identify of the Plame leak source — Bush retainer Richard Armitage - in the early weeks of the investigation, Fitzgerald still subjected the New York Times and Time magazine to a barrage of subpoenas unseen since the McCarthy era - going so far as to force the jailing of ex-Times reporter Judith Miller for 85 days. Until now, Patrick Fitzgerald has been famous for two things: prosecuting al Qaeda members and chilling the press.

    With the publication of Triple Cross his failure to contain bin Laden’s master spy will now be on the record. The book hits the stores on Tuesday, November 21st. Inside there’s a 32 page illustrated timeline documenting Fitzgerald’s negligence.
     

    It was more Irish anhedonia than Catholic guilt. They needed an enthusiastic police torturer, a cop who really enjoyed torturing non whites, like Jon "cattle prod" Burge (who Fitzgerald put in prison). Fortunately Gantamino Bay secured the services of another enthusiastic Chicago detective with proven torture skills: Richard Zuley.
    In Brazil he would be popular national hero.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/06/homophobic-mismogynist-racist-brazil-jair-bolsonaro

    Bolsonaro viciously dedicated his vote “to the memory of colonel Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra”. Ustra was one of the most sadistic torturers and murderers in the military dictatorship that choked Brazil between 1964 and 1985. He died without answering for his crimes. For this election, Bolsonaro’s children and supporters have printed the torturer’s face on their T-shirts, with the phrase “Ustra lives!”.
     

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/166EC/production/_86148819_ustra_wilson_dias-2.jpg

    By the way Bolsonaro is polling very strongly, after a campaign of solid front-running, except for a ring of communust states surrounding one alt-communist state, and one that has no polling data. The lattern resembles the map of crime rates.

    I am deeply suspicious of all lefty crying about atrocities, coming from lefties who get strangely tired, or even positively aggressively revisionist, when it comes time to mention what drove right-wing people to turn to violence. There’s a good Polish food restaurant in Detroit that relies on Stalinist imagery, and if anyone were to point out the “offensiveness” they’d be laughed at, or considered as insane as if they out forward a Völkisch sausage haus. Actually a beer and sausage place with a red and black color scheme would have been hilarious in the eighties but would be conpletely impossible now.

    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    The Brasilian left? Nah they're grand, completely above political violence: http://www.stalinsociety.org/2015/05/10/avenue-in-rio-de-janeiro-brazil-renamed-to-honor-stalin/
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    He's not going to win on the first round, but has a great chance in the second round. Assuming there is not another attempt on his life, that is.

    Many people still cling to voting in the Leftists (even though their Great Leader Lula is in jail), but the average citizen has already had too much.

  141. @Sean
    Patrick Fitzgerald saw how Giuliani made headlines by catching white Mafia grandfathers, sorry godfathers marching white white collar criminals in through Wall Street in chains.

    http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/57196/
    Patrick Fitzgerald, U.S. Attorney for Illinois’s Northern District, doesn’t pull his punches. Charming, tough, and named one of People’s “sexiest men alive” in 2005, he took down Governor Rod Blagojevich (as well as his predecessor) and got the Times’ Judith Miller imprisoned during the investigation that ended with Scooter Libby’s conviction. Now he’s threatening to take another journalist to court, for defamation and ­libel. And this time, it’s personal. He’s acting as a private citizen defending his public name. The book in question is Peter Lance’s Triple Cross, which was published in November 2006 by Regan Books, a division of Harper­Collins. Lance examines how the FBI and the U.S. Attorney in New York prosecuted terrorists before 9/11, including Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and those who blew up the U.S. embassies in Africa. At that time, Fitzgerald worked for the U.S. Attorney in New York. Lance alleges that Fitzgerald discounted information Lance contends arguably pointed to the existence of a possible Al Qaeda cell in New York five years prior to 9/11.
     

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-lance/al-qaeda-and-the-mob-how-_b_34336.html

    How was it that Fitzgerald, the man Vanity Fair described as the bin Laden “brain,” possessing “scary smart” intelligence, had not connected the dots and ordered the same kind of “perch” or “plant” to watch Sphinx that the Bureau had used against Gotti? Which “stone cold” killer was more a threat to the security of New York City? The Teflon Don or bin Laden’s master spy who cut his deal without giving up those “sleepers” he’d told Fitzgerald about in October of 1997. Here’s an irony in a story pregnant with them:

    Patrick Fitzgerald made his bones as a terror fighter by prosecuting U.S. vs. bin Laden, the trial of the African Embassy bombers that he and squad I-49 failed to stop. As a reward he was appointed U.S. Attorney in Chicago and got tapped as Special Prosecutor in the Valerie Plame CIA leak investigation. We now know that even after learning the identify of the Plame leak source — Bush retainer Richard Armitage - in the early weeks of the investigation, Fitzgerald still subjected the New York Times and Time magazine to a barrage of subpoenas unseen since the McCarthy era - going so far as to force the jailing of ex-Times reporter Judith Miller for 85 days. Until now, Patrick Fitzgerald has been famous for two things: prosecuting al Qaeda members and chilling the press.

    With the publication of Triple Cross his failure to contain bin Laden’s master spy will now be on the record. The book hits the stores on Tuesday, November 21st. Inside there’s a 32 page illustrated timeline documenting Fitzgerald’s negligence.
     

    It was more Irish anhedonia than Catholic guilt. They needed an enthusiastic police torturer, a cop who really enjoyed torturing non whites, like Jon "cattle prod" Burge (who Fitzgerald put in prison). Fortunately Gantamino Bay secured the services of another enthusiastic Chicago detective with proven torture skills: Richard Zuley.
    In Brazil he would be popular national hero.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/06/homophobic-mismogynist-racist-brazil-jair-bolsonaro

    Bolsonaro viciously dedicated his vote “to the memory of colonel Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra”. Ustra was one of the most sadistic torturers and murderers in the military dictatorship that choked Brazil between 1964 and 1985. He died without answering for his crimes. For this election, Bolsonaro’s children and supporters have printed the torturer’s face on their T-shirts, with the phrase “Ustra lives!”.
     

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/166EC/production/_86148819_ustra_wilson_dias-2.jpg

    Reading about Brazil’s crime rate, I can’t necessarily blame people for voting for the guy.

  142. @Twinkie

    I read somewhere that the biggest drinkers of all are the Rooshians and Aussies.
     
    Close. Koreans: https://qz.com/171191/south-koreans-drink-twice-as-much-liquor-as-russians-and-more-than-four-times-as-much-as-americans/
    https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/liquor-consumption2.png?w=2520&strip=all&quality=75

    >Finns
    >drink significantly less than Russians or for that matter Brazilians
    I doubt this graph.

  143. @Alden
    In addition to Sacred Heart, her father was a very very wealthy Dr and they lived in the very best of the best neighborhoods, Pacific Heights.

    When she was growing up and until about 1970 the Irish were very powerful politically in San Francisco. Leo MCarthy was speaker of the California assembly. Jerry and his father Pat Brown are Irish catholics Pat Brown was governor and gave her her start in. politics He appointed her to the state parole board. In her first election to board of supervisors in 68 she was surrounded by Irish politicians advisors and political consultants.

    She and Kavanaugh came from the same catholic school wealthy parents milieu. Kavanaugh with mother a judge father president of an ultra prestige country club comes from a more elite background than she does Drs daughter and wife.

    Her third husband is a multimillionaire Chinese slave labor factory operator so financially she’s way way up there. But Dr father and husband were just Dr rich

    Whatever she owes to the Irish catholic politicians who were with her when she started her career, she forgot it long ago as Irish left San Francisco except for the very rich.

    She was beautiful. Tall, 5 8 in flats thin gorgeous Irish stereotype white white skin black hair blue gray eyes and perfect features. She never photographed well. But in person beautiful And she continued wearing her elegant suits when the rest of us were hippies.

    I think marriage to Blum brought her into a Jewish financial elite close to Soros. Maybe she doesn’t have to be nice anymore.

    She was beautiful. Tall, 5 8 in flats thin gorgeous Irish stereotype white white skin black hair blue gray eyes and perfect features.

    Looking at Wikipedia, it sounds like she is fully of Jewish ancestry.

  144. @Hibernian
    The Kennedys don't appear to be exactly guilt ridden. Nor do the Daleys or Dick Durbin. Irish Catholic guilt means remembering all your sins when you go to Confession, so you can go out and commit more sins with a clear conscience.

    ” “What I do for a living is, I pack blacks and Latins off to jail.” They should have been proud of it .

    Have you ever seen a Jew burdened by guilt ?

  145. @Le Autiste Corv
    I think of Ronald Reagan. I think of Ted Kennedy and Phil Hart. I think of JFK. I think of William F. Buckley. I think of Paul Ryan.

    I think Cromwell did nothing wrong at Drogheda.

    Ha. Well, now Paks are going to decimate you. Couldn’t happen to a nicer or humbler nation.

  146. @Bill B.
    Well on Jews with thin guilt feelings I've discovered where Harvey Weinstein is hiding until he can make his comeback. Playing bass guitar for Brian Ferry. (And good too.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOcbONX5rs&list=PLettVydXyiqrGR7Sy38Crtth08c5RtRbN&index=21

    Bugger. Sorry. I meant this one. Harvey comes up quickly…

  147. @J.Ross
    By the way Bolsonaro is polling very strongly, after a campaign of solid front-running, except for a ring of communust states surrounding one alt-communist state, and one that has no polling data. The lattern resembles the map of crime rates.
    http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1538863211603.png
    I am deeply suspicious of all lefty crying about atrocities, coming from lefties who get strangely tired, or even positively aggressively revisionist, when it comes time to mention what drove right-wing people to turn to violence. There's a good Polish food restaurant in Detroit that relies on Stalinist imagery, and if anyone were to point out the "offensiveness" they'd be laughed at, or considered as insane as if they out forward a Völkisch sausage haus. Actually a beer and sausage place with a red and black color scheme would have been hilarious in the eighties but would be conpletely impossible now.

    The Brasilian left? Nah they’re grand, completely above political violence: http://www.stalinsociety.org/2015/05/10/avenue-in-rio-de-janeiro-brazil-renamed-to-honor-stalin/

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Since Bolsonaro was stabbed in the gut by a PT crazy but has largely recovered, I guess they draw the line at effective political violence.
  148. @Altai
    If he'd done nothing maybe there wouldn't be any Irish-Americans at all...

    Or maybe if he’d done more…..

  149. @slumber_j

    The Kavanaugh Kase has elicited a lot of amusing ethnic stereotyping about Irish drinking, especially from Jewish pundits, who tend to drink less and know less about drunkenness.
     
    This is a very good and astute insight that I never would have come up with. And that's despite the fact that I'm familiar with the phenomenon and know exactly when I became aware of it.

    In college I took two poetry-writing seminars, one with a guy named Michael Blumenthal and the other with Boylston Professor of Rhetoric and Oratory and future Nobelist Seamus Heaney. One morning in the Blumenthal era he was seeming distinctly (and uncharacteristically, and sheepishly) rough as the class assembled, and once we were all there he felt compelled to account for it.

    "I went out last night with Seamus Heaney for drinks, which we do every year," he said. "Jews can't drink."

    Actually, I'd argue that it's the Irish who can't drink, and I say that as about a one-third Irishman myself. But I knew what he meant.

    Of the many Jews I've met, I've only known one really big drinker. Perhaps significantly, he's Sephardic.

    Do you even *know Seamus Heaney?

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Good point. We know who each other are, dude.

    But as I explained to your then-eight-year-or-so-old daughter: Yes, I do. Or did, anyway.

  150. Anonymous[350] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    I was blessed from 18-25. Almost never had a hangover and never vomited from heavy drinking. Lucky genes plus sticking to unmixed liquor and a glass of water every 4 or 5 drinks, then another glass before bed.

    Also did magic mushrooms a couple dozen times and never had a bad trip.

    Now I do get hangovers unfortunately and am not brave enough to eat mushrooms anymore.

    Based on what I’ve read, It looks like there has actually been some selection for various traits that can make you either tend towards being able to moderate drinking without addiction (likely because alcohol was probably a staple in places like continental Europe) or have a bad time when exposed to alcohol or it’s metabolic breakdown products such that you have a dislike of drinking and avoid it. People with little ancestral exposure to alcohol often end up over drinking without the requisite restraints to moderate it and become alcoholics.

  151. @Twinkie

    Catholic: My sins killed Christ!
     
    My favorite one from a Catholic mom to her child: “You made the Blessed Lady” cry!

    Someone who went to catholic school in the 1950s told me the nuns told them rain was angels crying because of the sins these little kids committed.

    They married in a catholic church to avoid both sets of parents dying of shame but that was it. No more cahtolicism

  152. @Roderick Spode
    The Brasilian left? Nah they're grand, completely above political violence: http://www.stalinsociety.org/2015/05/10/avenue-in-rio-de-janeiro-brazil-renamed-to-honor-stalin/

    Since Bolsonaro was stabbed in the gut by a PT crazy but has largely recovered, I guess they draw the line at effective political violence.

  153. @Sean
    Patrick Fitzgerald saw how Giuliani made headlines by catching white Mafia grandfathers, sorry godfathers marching white white collar criminals in through Wall Street in chains.

    http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/57196/
    Patrick Fitzgerald, U.S. Attorney for Illinois’s Northern District, doesn’t pull his punches. Charming, tough, and named one of People’s “sexiest men alive” in 2005, he took down Governor Rod Blagojevich (as well as his predecessor) and got the Times’ Judith Miller imprisoned during the investigation that ended with Scooter Libby’s conviction. Now he’s threatening to take another journalist to court, for defamation and ­libel. And this time, it’s personal. He’s acting as a private citizen defending his public name. The book in question is Peter Lance’s Triple Cross, which was published in November 2006 by Regan Books, a division of Harper­Collins. Lance examines how the FBI and the U.S. Attorney in New York prosecuted terrorists before 9/11, including Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and those who blew up the U.S. embassies in Africa. At that time, Fitzgerald worked for the U.S. Attorney in New York. Lance alleges that Fitzgerald discounted information Lance contends arguably pointed to the existence of a possible Al Qaeda cell in New York five years prior to 9/11.
     

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-lance/al-qaeda-and-the-mob-how-_b_34336.html

    How was it that Fitzgerald, the man Vanity Fair described as the bin Laden “brain,” possessing “scary smart” intelligence, had not connected the dots and ordered the same kind of “perch” or “plant” to watch Sphinx that the Bureau had used against Gotti? Which “stone cold” killer was more a threat to the security of New York City? The Teflon Don or bin Laden’s master spy who cut his deal without giving up those “sleepers” he’d told Fitzgerald about in October of 1997. Here’s an irony in a story pregnant with them:

    Patrick Fitzgerald made his bones as a terror fighter by prosecuting U.S. vs. bin Laden, the trial of the African Embassy bombers that he and squad I-49 failed to stop. As a reward he was appointed U.S. Attorney in Chicago and got tapped as Special Prosecutor in the Valerie Plame CIA leak investigation. We now know that even after learning the identify of the Plame leak source — Bush retainer Richard Armitage - in the early weeks of the investigation, Fitzgerald still subjected the New York Times and Time magazine to a barrage of subpoenas unseen since the McCarthy era - going so far as to force the jailing of ex-Times reporter Judith Miller for 85 days. Until now, Patrick Fitzgerald has been famous for two things: prosecuting al Qaeda members and chilling the press.

    With the publication of Triple Cross his failure to contain bin Laden’s master spy will now be on the record. The book hits the stores on Tuesday, November 21st. Inside there’s a 32 page illustrated timeline documenting Fitzgerald’s negligence.
     

    It was more Irish anhedonia than Catholic guilt. They needed an enthusiastic police torturer, a cop who really enjoyed torturing non whites, like Jon "cattle prod" Burge (who Fitzgerald put in prison). Fortunately Gantamino Bay secured the services of another enthusiastic Chicago detective with proven torture skills: Richard Zuley.
    In Brazil he would be popular national hero.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/06/homophobic-mismogynist-racist-brazil-jair-bolsonaro

    Bolsonaro viciously dedicated his vote “to the memory of colonel Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra”. Ustra was one of the most sadistic torturers and murderers in the military dictatorship that choked Brazil between 1964 and 1985. He died without answering for his crimes. For this election, Bolsonaro’s children and supporters have printed the torturer’s face on their T-shirts, with the phrase “Ustra lives!”.
     

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/166EC/production/_86148819_ustra_wilson_dias-2.jpg

    People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

    – attributed apochryphaly to George Orwell

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. It's really by Richard Grenier.
  154. @Jack D
    Back in the day, a lot of American humor depending on ethnic stereotyping - it was all in good fun and not malicious - the Scottish were tight fisted, Irish were drunks, Jewish waiters were rude, etc. But ethnic stereotyping of any kind is now strictly Verboten. (There is no humor in Leftism - the late night TV show monologues no longer consist of jokes, just of nonstop criticism of Trump. ) So of course no one in polite society could mention that all these hard drinking high school girls and boys were Irish Catholics. This is the kind of thing that can only be discussed on racist blogs. Everyone else knows that humans are blank slates so your ethnic origin is of no relevance to your behavior.

    is now strictly Verboten.

    You can’t write this anymore.

  155. @honesthughgrant
    As Steve as pointed out, there's a real "Revenge of the Nerds" quality to the press coverage of Kavanaugh. Its seems that Brett Kavanaugh reminds them of all those Jocks in HS that dated the Cheerleaders and pulled their shorts off in PE Class.

    The Jewish nerds misunderstanding of Irish drinking is a twist on all this. But its a WASP misunderstanding too. After all, USA Prohibition was a WASP thing. The evils of drinking and all that. For example, Kavanaugh's Yalie roommate Roche seems to have thought Kavanaugh was a super-drunk because he came back to the Dorm "plastered" every once and a while.

    Roche also doesn't seem to understand the difference between "Passed out" and "Blacked out". Very few drinkers "black out" and it has nothing to do with how much you drink, although most people who do "black out" require large amounts of booze to do so. Most of the time, its impossible for someone to know if a drinker has "blacked out" unless the drinker tell them.

    There is also a difference between blacked out and simply not remembering.

  156. @Lot
    I was blessed from 18-25. Almost never had a hangover and never vomited from heavy drinking. Lucky genes plus sticking to unmixed liquor and a glass of water every 4 or 5 drinks, then another glass before bed.

    Also did magic mushrooms a couple dozen times and never had a bad trip.

    Now I do get hangovers unfortunately and am not brave enough to eat mushrooms anymore.

    Drinking a quart+ of water before going to bed will help with the dehydration hangover that alcohol produces.

  157. @Jack D
    My wife's work with learning disabled children puts her in contact with a lot of lace curtain Irish Catholic families (as well as WASPs and Jews) - the kind that send their kids to prep schools. To her, the biggest distinguishing characteristic vs other groups is that Irish Catholics (except perhaps when drunk - she never sees the parents when they are drunk) don't like confrontation or to air dirty family laundry in public. They have a strong sense of shame. They would rather shove a problem under the rug or seeth in passive aggressive fashion than deal with a problem head on and subject themselves to what they think of as public shame.

    We see this, perhaps, in the Catholic Church's approach to pedophile priests. Or the Kennedy decision to stick Rosemary in an institution and never speak of her again. If you know any modern secular Jewish families that have a disabled family member, or who have been in legal trouble or whatever, they don't try to hide it - they will tell you about it 5 minutes after you have met them (and Jews (Harvey Weinstein) are known for being "shameless" in other ways). Drug addiction, etc. are seen as medical issues like having diabetes and not as moral failures to be ashamed of or hidden from public view.

    In the context of her work, this means that the Jewish families call her when their kid is in first grade and isn't learning to read quite as fast as the other kids and the Irish Catholic families call her halfway thru junior year of high school when their kid is about to flunk out.

    …pedophile priests…

    pedophile homosexual priests…

  158. @J.Ross
    By the way Bolsonaro is polling very strongly, after a campaign of solid front-running, except for a ring of communust states surrounding one alt-communist state, and one that has no polling data. The lattern resembles the map of crime rates.
    http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1538863211603.png
    I am deeply suspicious of all lefty crying about atrocities, coming from lefties who get strangely tired, or even positively aggressively revisionist, when it comes time to mention what drove right-wing people to turn to violence. There's a good Polish food restaurant in Detroit that relies on Stalinist imagery, and if anyone were to point out the "offensiveness" they'd be laughed at, or considered as insane as if they out forward a Völkisch sausage haus. Actually a beer and sausage place with a red and black color scheme would have been hilarious in the eighties but would be conpletely impossible now.

    He’s not going to win on the first round, but has a great chance in the second round. Assuming there is not another attempt on his life, that is.

    Many people still cling to voting in the Leftists (even though their Great Leader Lula is in jail), but the average citizen has already had too much.

  159. @Jack D
    This graph is pretty worthless. It only concerns hard liquor and doesn't correct for ABV. The most popular drink in Korea is soju which is a sort of watered down vodka (in its modern iteration) that runs around 40 proof (20% alcohol), whereas Russian vodka is at least twice that, so right way you could cut the Korean # in half.

    If you go beverage by beverage, the national #s vary a lot - Portuguese and Italians drink a lot of wine but not much beer, Germans vice versa and so on. But if you look at total alcohol consumed here are the top 10, in liters per capita, ranked:

    Moldova (17.4 )
    Belarus (17.1)
    Lithuania (16.2)
    Russia (14.5)
    Czech Republic (14.1)
    Romania (12.9)
    Serbia (12.9)
    Australia (12.6)
    Portugal (12.5)
    Slovakia (12.5)

    https://vinepair.com/articles/map-countries-drink-most-alcohol/

    17.4 liters per annum of pure alcohol is 43 1/2 liters of 80 proof vodka or 58 fifths or more than 1 bottle of vodka per person per week for every man woman and child.

    Mexicans and Latin Americans are surprisingly light drinkers although the Muslim world is obviously the lightest.

    Moldova (17.4 )
    Belarus (17.1)
    Lithuania (16.2)
    Russia (14.5)
    Czech Republic (14.1)
    Romania (12.9)
    Serbia (12.9)
    Australia (12.6)
    Portugal (12.5)
    Slovakia (12.5)

    Australians represent!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    From Jack D’s link (twice removed):
    http://www.who.int/gho/alcohol/alcohol_011.png?ua=1
  160. No offense but in continental Europe one never heard much about Ireland
    in the 1960s or ’70s because of its small size and a tiny population,
    and perhaps the fact that Ireland basically sat out WW II and so never entered
    the European wartime imagination. Hence it was a shock for Europeans to visit the
    United States when the Irish seemed to be everywhere, starting with the
    Kennedy clan, the Daleys in Chicago, Cardinal Terence Cooke, etc. Ultimately,
    that’s not surprising as 33 million Americans (or 10%) claim Irish ancestry.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Irish-Catholics in the US do, indeed, have a fairly strong ethnic identity.

    But that is not true for Irish-Protestants, whether Scots-Irish or Anglo-Irish even though there are more Americans with Irish Protestant ancestry than Irish Catholics, a fact that many Irish Americans are unaware of.

    The most successful Irish Presbyterians (e.g. the Pittsburgh Mellons) tended to join the same social stratum as rich Episcopalians (American term for Anglicans) and were seen by others as simply another sort of high-caste WASP.

    The least successful Scotch-Irish (e.g. Appalachian whites) obviously did not associate with high-caste WASPs but rarely celebrated their Irish ancestry, either. Of all Americans, they are most likely to refer to their own ethnic background as simply "American."
  161. @Bies Podkrakowski
    What is this Catholic Guilt? I've met this term several times, each time used by American author. As I understand it it has something to do with shame, sexuality and repression and needs to be overcame.

    My pet theory: it is something that American Protestants felt that Catholics must have or it was created in American Catholicism by close contact with American Puritanism, which I am told has its share of problems with guilt.

    As someone who was raised Catholic (although not Irish), I wouldn’t necessarily
    call it “guilt,” just a sense that one doesn’t measure up to the impossible ideals
    of saintliness one hears about in Sunday sermons, starting with Jesus, and then
    with people like St. Francis of Assisi, St. Thérèse of Lisieux, St. Faustina Kowalska
    or St. Padre Pio. You ask yourself: do I have a healing presence or do miracles flow
    through me everywhere I go? And the answer is usually ‘no.’

    You either gain power over matter through science and technology or through
    miracles. Science and technology have been extremely successful in the last
    300 years (although they became tarnished because we now know that nothing
    is as effective as science if you want kill people with very high efficiency).
    Protestantism which (except for Evangelicalism) is the first step
    toward agnosticism, basically gave up on miracles, and has turned to
    science in its quest for salvation. Catholics still believe in miracles but
    also realize that apparently you cannot become a miracle worker without
    extreme sensory deprivation, mainly fasting and celibacy, as evidenced
    by the individuals listed above. And how many people are capable of that?

    What’s interesting is that science appears to be running out of steam.
    Nobody is making great discoveries anymore, not even in biomedical
    sciences. And people obviously need healing, e.g., of opioid addiction
    or alcoholism. So who’s gonna heal them? Our hopes placed in science
    and medicine are being dashed, and this seems to be the biggest trend
    today: people are turning once again to spiritual healing (as promised
    by Mary Baker Eddy) and to alternative medicine, and away from science.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Nobody is making great discoveries anymore, not even in biomedical sciences. "

    I sort of agree with a lot of your post, but that's just not true. Someone on Twitter the other day posted a graph of how 5-year cancer survival rates have increased over the last 20 years - and the gains are impressive. It's true that the "great discovery" was DNA, but the many discoveries which are flowing from that will keep going for decades, just as physics and astronomy advanced in the post-relativity years.

    Here's one impressive advance - regenerating spinal cord after it has been severed (by IIRC an angry husband with a knife). I'm sorry to see the good prof has died, a most useful life.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/21/geoffrey-raisman-obituary
  162. @Sean
    Patrick Fitzgerald saw how Giuliani made headlines by catching white Mafia grandfathers, sorry godfathers marching white white collar criminals in through Wall Street in chains.

    http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/57196/
    Patrick Fitzgerald, U.S. Attorney for Illinois’s Northern District, doesn’t pull his punches. Charming, tough, and named one of People’s “sexiest men alive” in 2005, he took down Governor Rod Blagojevich (as well as his predecessor) and got the Times’ Judith Miller imprisoned during the investigation that ended with Scooter Libby’s conviction. Now he’s threatening to take another journalist to court, for defamation and ­libel. And this time, it’s personal. He’s acting as a private citizen defending his public name. The book in question is Peter Lance’s Triple Cross, which was published in November 2006 by Regan Books, a division of Harper­Collins. Lance examines how the FBI and the U.S. Attorney in New York prosecuted terrorists before 9/11, including Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and those who blew up the U.S. embassies in Africa. At that time, Fitzgerald worked for the U.S. Attorney in New York. Lance alleges that Fitzgerald discounted information Lance contends arguably pointed to the existence of a possible Al Qaeda cell in New York five years prior to 9/11.
     

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-lance/al-qaeda-and-the-mob-how-_b_34336.html

    How was it that Fitzgerald, the man Vanity Fair described as the bin Laden “brain,” possessing “scary smart” intelligence, had not connected the dots and ordered the same kind of “perch” or “plant” to watch Sphinx that the Bureau had used against Gotti? Which “stone cold” killer was more a threat to the security of New York City? The Teflon Don or bin Laden’s master spy who cut his deal without giving up those “sleepers” he’d told Fitzgerald about in October of 1997. Here’s an irony in a story pregnant with them:

    Patrick Fitzgerald made his bones as a terror fighter by prosecuting U.S. vs. bin Laden, the trial of the African Embassy bombers that he and squad I-49 failed to stop. As a reward he was appointed U.S. Attorney in Chicago and got tapped as Special Prosecutor in the Valerie Plame CIA leak investigation. We now know that even after learning the identify of the Plame leak source — Bush retainer Richard Armitage - in the early weeks of the investigation, Fitzgerald still subjected the New York Times and Time magazine to a barrage of subpoenas unseen since the McCarthy era - going so far as to force the jailing of ex-Times reporter Judith Miller for 85 days. Until now, Patrick Fitzgerald has been famous for two things: prosecuting al Qaeda members and chilling the press.

    With the publication of Triple Cross his failure to contain bin Laden’s master spy will now be on the record. The book hits the stores on Tuesday, November 21st. Inside there’s a 32 page illustrated timeline documenting Fitzgerald’s negligence.
     

    It was more Irish anhedonia than Catholic guilt. They needed an enthusiastic police torturer, a cop who really enjoyed torturing non whites, like Jon "cattle prod" Burge (who Fitzgerald put in prison). Fortunately Gantamino Bay secured the services of another enthusiastic Chicago detective with proven torture skills: Richard Zuley.
    In Brazil he would be popular national hero.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/06/homophobic-mismogynist-racist-brazil-jair-bolsonaro

    Bolsonaro viciously dedicated his vote “to the memory of colonel Carlos Alberto Brilhante Ustra”. Ustra was one of the most sadistic torturers and murderers in the military dictatorship that choked Brazil between 1964 and 1985. He died without answering for his crimes. For this election, Bolsonaro’s children and supporters have printed the torturer’s face on their T-shirts, with the phrase “Ustra lives!”.
     

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/166EC/production/_86148819_ustra_wilson_dias-2.jpg

    Notes on the article you linked:

    1. Elaine Brum is despicable. She calls out Bolsonaro for his violent rethorics, forgetting to mention that he was knifed in an assassination attempt by a nutcase Communist one month ago. His candidate on the São Paulo Governor race has just now suffered an attemp on his life too (though the criminals escaped), and his supporter in Curitiba (Professor Galdino) got beaten to unconsciousness. So much for political violence.

    2. She writes:

    By celebrating Ustra, Bolsonaro has rekindled the horror of that period. And he can do it only because Brazil has never punished those who tortured, kidnapped and killed in the name of the state. Bolsonaro is the monstrous product of Brazilian democracy’s silence about the crimes committed by its former dictatorship.

    LOL, silence. The Left just cannot get enough talking about the last bout of dictatorship, even after 34 years of its fall. We even had a Comission of Truth (not joking) to document all the crimes and disappearances of the time.

    She means to criticize the general amnesty granted to the regime grunts… which is also granted amnesty for the Leftist terrorists she admires so much, including former president Dilma Rousseff, but never mind. It was a general amnesty without which half of the Left would also have to answer for their crimes.

    3. She writes:

    A movement grew out of this group, last week spurring hundreds of thousands of women – and men – on to the streets of Brazil and around the world. Many carried banners with the slogan and hashtag: #EleNão – #NotHim. It was the biggest demonstration organised by women in Brazil’s history.

    Aaaaaaand after so big an effort to disparage him , Bolsonaro got more vote from women. Good job!?

    4. Finally, one interesting gem:

    Explaining hasn’t had any effect. Bolsonaro is less a post-truth phenomenon than a phenomenon of what I call self-truth. The content of what he says doesn’t matter: what matters is the act of saying it. Aesthetics have replaced ethics. By saying everything and anything, no matter how violent, he is labelled truthful or sincere by his voters at a time when politicians are being shunned as frauds and liars. At the same time, “truth” has become an absolute and a personal choice. The individual has been taken to a radical extreme.

    Notice how she unawarily she describes the Leftist mind, and projects it on her opponent. Powerful stuff.

    • Replies: @Sean
    I saw an interview with white members of an Apartheid era South African state death squad, and they said torturing people to death affected them greatly, they lost their sex drive ect. Bolsonaro looks very European, I suspect he would not enjoy mercilessly victimising innocent people (for you have to go after the families to be effective) at all. I don't know that Brazilian Reds are Leftist in that Postmodern truth-does-not matter sense. I think they believe they represent Enlightenment Truth a la Rousseau and Marx. There are people on the Left (and Right) who say anything to win power. But Leftie Žižek has a point about the old Left (and Neocon Right) claim to have access to timeless truth :-

    “Let us engage in a mental experiment by way of trying to construct proverbial wisdom out of the relationship between terrestrial life, its pleasures, and its Beyond. If ones says, “Forget about the afterlife, about the Elsewhere, seize the day, enjoy life fully here and now, it’s the only life you’ve got!” it sounds deep. “If one says exactly the opposite (“Do not get trapped in the illusory and vain pleasures of earthly life; money, power, and passions are all destined to vanish into thin air – think about eternity!”), it also sounds deep. “If one combines the two sides (“Bring Eternity into your everyday life, live your life on this earth as if it is already permeated by Eternity!”), we get another profound thought. [...] “Needless to add that, by uniting mystery and simplicity, one again obtains a wisdom: “The ultimate, unfathomable mystery of life resides in its very simplicity, in the simple fact that there is life.” ”
     
    Hence, effective political rhetoric must bring out the background conditions that makes salient a truth. In Brazil the votes will be cast against a background of disorder in many parts of the country
  163. @Lot
    It isn't purely north south. Germans and northern French handle alcohol just fine, while southern Russians and Ukrainians don't.

    The far north Germanics in Scandinavia have a higher rate of problem drinking, possibly because they had cleaner drinking water and lower population densities and didn't benefit from drinking beer, and not only because of later introduction of grain farming and beer brewing.

    I tried pulque, the Mexican pre-Colombian fermented alcoholic drink. Perhaps the most disgusting thing I ever tasted, like sour milk. Wikipedia implies it wasn't widely used enough to result in a genetic protection against alcoholism. The economic gap between Pine Ridge and the US mean is about the same as Indio villages and the Mexican mean.

    German and Northern French have more of the Southern Euro Neolithic Farmer ancestry than do Russians and Ukranians, though.

  164. The Irish Catholic conscience is a legacy of the blessing St. Patrick merited for us on that crow-swarmed mountain.

  165. @Alden
    In addition to Sacred Heart, her father was a very very wealthy Dr and they lived in the very best of the best neighborhoods, Pacific Heights.

    When she was growing up and until about 1970 the Irish were very powerful politically in San Francisco. Leo MCarthy was speaker of the California assembly. Jerry and his father Pat Brown are Irish catholics Pat Brown was governor and gave her her start in. politics He appointed her to the state parole board. In her first election to board of supervisors in 68 she was surrounded by Irish politicians advisors and political consultants.

    She and Kavanaugh came from the same catholic school wealthy parents milieu. Kavanaugh with mother a judge father president of an ultra prestige country club comes from a more elite background than she does Drs daughter and wife.

    Her third husband is a multimillionaire Chinese slave labor factory operator so financially she’s way way up there. But Dr father and husband were just Dr rich

    Whatever she owes to the Irish catholic politicians who were with her when she started her career, she forgot it long ago as Irish left San Francisco except for the very rich.

    She was beautiful. Tall, 5 8 in flats thin gorgeous Irish stereotype white white skin black hair blue gray eyes and perfect features. She never photographed well. But in person beautiful And she continued wearing her elegant suits when the rest of us were hippies.

    I think marriage to Blum brought her into a Jewish financial elite close to Soros. Maybe she doesn’t have to be nice anymore.

    1. It was Christine Blasey’s father who was president of the Burning Tree Club, not Brett Kavanaugh’s (though there are contentions that E.E. Kavanaugh was a member of Burning Tree).

    2. Martha Kavanaugh was a schooteacher-turned prosecutor. She wasn’t appointed to the Circuit Court in Maryland until she was past 50 and her son was already a member of the bar landing prestige positions.

    3. Brett Kavanaugh’s father was staff director of a trade association – i.e. a lobbyist.

    4. The Browns are Catholic (after a fashion). Pat Brown might make it under the envelope as ‘Irish’ (really, German / Irish). It’s a stretch to use the term for his son.

    5. All three of Feinstein’s husbands have been Jewish.

    6. The Mayor of San Francisco when she was elected to the Board of Supervisors was Joseph Alioto.

    • Replies: @Lot
    I met one of mayor Alioto's grandsons about a decade ago, nice friendly young man. He was an apprentice in a building trade, not what I expected.
  166. I wouldn’t call Dick Durbin a top oligarch. He’s a cog in the Machine. In any group there are mostly very fine people along with a few who are walking stereotypes. IMHO politics attracts more than its share of walking stereotypes.

  167. @Art Deco
    Durbin's nominally Catholic but not Irish. One grandmother the daughter of potato famine migrants, no more.

    Durbin’s nominally Catholic but not Irish. One grandmother the daughter of potato famine migrants, no more.

    Durbin is the progeny of a member of a roving band of gypsies (Irish Travellers) and a barnyard animal. The love that cannot be named produced the esteemed Dick. And the medical community has confirmed that Dick’s offspring do indeed have corkscrew tails.

  168. @Charles Pewitt
    My Latin is a little bit rusty, but here goes:

    In Beerio Is Truthio

    No more political debates without 12-pack ale consumption, Dammit!

    Make all politicians pop down a 12-pack of Sierra Nevada porter or India pale ale.

    Sierra Nevada beer brewery is run by a billionaire Jew. He could be my 3rd all-time favorite Jew after Jesus Christ and Norm Abram.

    Jesus Christ would've pushed that annoying boob Bob Vila off a roof after about 3 seasons of that house show. Norm Abram never did; what Christlike forbearance!

    Jesus Christ would’ve pushed that annoying boob Bob Vila off a roof after about 3 seasons of that house show. Norm Abram never did; what Christlike forbearance!

    I cannot adequately describe how much unexpected laughter I experience as a consequence of reading your posts. But I can say: Thank you!

  169. Some people have no shame.


    It’s cutting it off, but earlier in the same thread he claims that [disobeying him] is contrary to the intent of the Founders, then two tweets later he says the Founders are idiots and do not matter.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    It's literally a den of (((who's who))), e.g. Kasparov, others.

    Buy maybe he is a better Rothschild than those in the Edmond de Rothschild group. A great pol thread on the subject of their sponsorship of "artist" Cleon Peterson:

    http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/188012386/macron-reacts-to-viral-selfie

    His schtick is blacks winning a race war against whites.

    http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1538636932137.jpg

    Fortunately we have Pepe on side.

    http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1538637704616.jpg
  170. @Art Deco
    1. It was Christine Blasey's father who was president of the Burning Tree Club, not Brett Kavanaugh's (though there are contentions that E.E. Kavanaugh was a member of Burning Tree).

    2. Martha Kavanaugh was a schooteacher-turned prosecutor. She wasn't appointed to the Circuit Court in Maryland until she was past 50 and her son was already a member of the bar landing prestige positions.

    3. Brett Kavanaugh's father was staff director of a trade association - i.e. a lobbyist.

    4. The Browns are Catholic (after a fashion). Pat Brown might make it under the envelope as 'Irish' (really, German / Irish). It's a stretch to use the term for his son.

    5. All three of Feinstein's husbands have been Jewish.

    6. The Mayor of San Francisco when she was elected to the Board of Supervisors was Joseph Alioto.

    I met one of mayor Alioto’s grandsons about a decade ago, nice friendly young man. He was an apprentice in a building trade, not what I expected.

  171. The main character in the Coen brothers’ film “Hail, Caesar!”, Eddie Mannix, suffers from Catholic guilt. In the roughly 27 hours in which the story takes place, he goes to confession twice, seeking absolution for sins such as sneaking a couple of cigarettes after he’d promised his wife he’d quit smoking.

  172. @TheLatestInDecay
    Do you even *know Seamus Heaney?

    Good point. We know who each other are, dude.

    But as I explained to your then-eight-year-or-so-old daughter: Yes, I do. Or did, anyway.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Furthermore, as you'll necessarily agree about your own life, the most fictional-seeming facts about what has actually happened in one's experience doesn't negate their actually having happened, incredibly.

    So, for example, you actually did call Leonard Bernstein "Lenny" and so on. And I actually have played touch-football at Teh Kennedy Compound and attended Spanish royal weddings.

    You're the one in denial!!!

    Jesus.
  173. @slumber_j
    Good point. We know who each other are, dude.

    But as I explained to your then-eight-year-or-so-old daughter: Yes, I do. Or did, anyway.

    Furthermore, as you’ll necessarily agree about your own life, the most fictional-seeming facts about what has actually happened in one’s experience doesn’t negate their actually having happened, incredibly.

    So, for example, you actually did call Leonard Bernstein “Lenny” and so on. And I actually have played touch-football at Teh Kennedy Compound and attended Spanish royal weddings.

    You’re the one in denial!!!

    Jesus.

  174. @Jim Don Bob
    People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

    - attributed apochryphaly to George Orwell

    Right. It’s really by Richard Grenier.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Right. I used to read Grenier in the Washington Times.

    It's one of my favorite quotes, and it sounds like it could have been Orwell.
  175. @J.Ross
    Some people have no shame.
    https://twitter.com/DavMicRot/status/1048710391298187264
    It's cutting it off, but earlier in the same thread he claims that [disobeying him] is contrary to the intent of the Founders, then two tweets later he says the Founders are idiots and do not matter.

    It’s literally a den of (((who’s who))), e.g. Kasparov, others.

    Buy maybe he is a better Rothschild than those in the Edmond de Rothschild group. A great pol thread on the subject of their sponsorship of “artist” Cleon Peterson:

    http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/188012386/macron-reacts-to-viral-selfie

    His schtick is blacks winning a race war against whites.

    Fortunately we have Pepe on side.

  176. @Yadd

    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.

     

    Nope. American Irish Catholics. The Catholicism just supercharges their perverse nature. It forces them to subjugate their Irishishness. Don’t start trying to defend the Irish Catholics, especially the American ones. They have an historical laundry list of debauchery, malfeasance, lack of self-control, bald-faced perversion, and pointless flightful fancy that has been observed and commented on by many of our founding father's, all the way forward to contemporary observers, and the Irish social manifest hasn't changed much, except for the Boston Irish, who are now even worse.

    It’s not by accident that the typical sympathetic response to anyone wronged by a malicious Irishman is, "well, what did you expect? It’s really your fault. He's an Irish N-word, and you allowed him to talk to you, anyway."

    The Irish cannot be changed. They can only be successfully threatened, sometimes. Otherwise jail is the only way to get them to consistently contribute to a society, bsimply by not being around. And btw, there’s no typical Irishman who has ever gained entry to the vagina of a proper WASP while she was awake, unthreatened, sober, and of sound mind. It’s simply impossible.


    An Anecdote Illustrating Something of the Irish Character by P.J. O'Rourke:

    There was an Irishman who got so drunk while visiting Rome, that he kissed his wife, and beat the Pope's foot to a pulp with a coal shovel.

    Thanks you, Thomas Nast.

  177. @Steve Sailer
    Right. It's really by Richard Grenier.

    Right. I used to read Grenier in the Washington Times.

    It’s one of my favorite quotes, and it sounds like it could have been Orwell.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Grenier Orwell quote is a little like the most famous Chesterton quote about those who stop believing in God don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything. That wasn't actually by Chesterton, it was by a Chesterton scholar who was quoting Chesterton at length and really got into the swing of things and actually topped Chesterton. The pseudo-Chesterton quote is in an unusual class of quotes. It was neither intended to mislead about who wrote it nor is it just some random quote ascribed to somebody really famous like Churchill or Einstein. It's a really punchy summary of Chesterton, which Chesterton would have liked to have said.

    The Grenier quote comes close to Orwell, although it strikes me as positing something that Orwell might have said if he lived much longer. But who knows what Orwell's political evolution would have looked like?

  178. @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Notes on the article you linked:

    1. Elaine Brum is despicable. She calls out Bolsonaro for his violent rethorics, forgetting to mention that he was knifed in an assassination attempt by a nutcase Communist one month ago. His candidate on the São Paulo Governor race has just now suffered an attemp on his life too (though the criminals escaped), and his supporter in Curitiba (Professor Galdino) got beaten to unconsciousness. So much for political violence.

    2. She writes:

    By celebrating Ustra, Bolsonaro has rekindled the horror of that period. And he can do it only because Brazil has never punished those who tortured, kidnapped and killed in the name of the state. Bolsonaro is the monstrous product of Brazilian democracy’s silence about the crimes committed by its former dictatorship.
     
    LOL, silence. The Left just cannot get enough talking about the last bout of dictatorship, even after 34 years of its fall. We even had a Comission of Truth (not joking) to document all the crimes and disappearances of the time.

    She means to criticize the general amnesty granted to the regime grunts... which is also granted amnesty for the Leftist terrorists she admires so much, including former president Dilma Rousseff, but never mind. It was a general amnesty without which half of the Left would also have to answer for their crimes.

    3. She writes:

    A movement grew out of this group, last week spurring hundreds of thousands of women – and men – on to the streets of Brazil and around the world. Many carried banners with the slogan and hashtag: #EleNão – #NotHim. It was the biggest demonstration organised by women in Brazil’s history.
     
    Aaaaaaand after so big an effort to disparage him , Bolsonaro got more vote from women. Good job!?

    4. Finally, one interesting gem:

    Explaining hasn’t had any effect. Bolsonaro is less a post-truth phenomenon than a phenomenon of what I call self-truth. The content of what he says doesn’t matter: what matters is the act of saying it. Aesthetics have replaced ethics. By saying everything and anything, no matter how violent, he is labelled truthful or sincere by his voters at a time when politicians are being shunned as frauds and liars. At the same time, “truth” has become an absolute and a personal choice. The individual has been taken to a radical extreme.
     
    Notice how she unawarily she describes the Leftist mind, and projects it on her opponent. Powerful stuff.

    I saw an interview with white members of an Apartheid era South African state death squad, and they said torturing people to death affected them greatly, they lost their sex drive ect. Bolsonaro looks very European, I suspect he would not enjoy mercilessly victimising innocent people (for you have to go after the families to be effective) at all. I don’t know that Brazilian Reds are Leftist in that Postmodern truth-does-not matter sense. I think they believe they represent Enlightenment Truth a la Rousseau and Marx. There are people on the Left (and Right) who say anything to win power. But Leftie Žižek has a point about the old Left (and Neocon Right) claim to have access to timeless truth :-

    “Let us engage in a mental experiment by way of trying to construct proverbial wisdom out of the relationship between terrestrial life, its pleasures, and its Beyond. If ones says, “Forget about the afterlife, about the Elsewhere, seize the day, enjoy life fully here and now, it’s the only life you’ve got!” it sounds deep. “If one says exactly the opposite (“Do not get trapped in the illusory and vain pleasures of earthly life; money, power, and passions are all destined to vanish into thin air – think about eternity!”), it also sounds deep. “If one combines the two sides (“Bring Eternity into your everyday life, live your life on this earth as if it is already permeated by Eternity!”), we get another profound thought. […] “Needless to add that, by uniting mystery and simplicity, one again obtains a wisdom: “The ultimate, unfathomable mystery of life resides in its very simplicity, in the simple fact that there is life.” ”

    Hence, effective political rhetoric must bring out the background conditions that makes salient a truth. In Brazil the votes will be cast against a background of disorder in many parts of the country

    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    Bolsonaro looks very European, I suspect he would not enjoy mercilessly victimising innocent people (for you have to go after the families to be effective) at all.
     
    Yeah, I think he wouldn't. But then, he needn't do it himself... plenty of less white followers (including his vice-president) could do the job. But they won't, it's just rhetorics. If they win, expect no legalization of torture and no increase in the amount of extrajudicial torture already applied.

    I don’t know that Brazilian Reds are Leftist in that Postmodern truth-does-not matter sense. I think they believe they represent Enlightenment Truth a la Rousseau and Marx.
     
    We have them all. Unfortunately, much like in the United States, the Postmodern Identity-politics one gained more space than ever should. Which is why the Left is losing right now.

    In Brazil the votes will be cast against a background of disorder in many parts of the country
     
    Indeed, but fortunately nothing serious happened. The votes are already cast and counted, Bolsonaro got 47% and will go to dispute the second round. We'll see how it goes for the next 3 weeks.
  179. anon[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosamond Vincy
    Guilt by religion:

    Episcopalian: What I did was in atrocious taste.

    Methodist: I must not have been working hard enough, or this would not have happened.

    Calvinist: Guess this proves I'm not one of the Elect after all. WTH...May as well go out and sin again.

    Jewish: This will kill your father when he hears about it.

    Catholic: My sins killed Christ!

    Marvellous!

    I would only quibble with the Calvinist, which I think tends to be: “That wasn’t a sin at all. How could I sin?”

    Reminds me of Judge Frollo from Disney’s Hunchback of Notre Dame:

    Beata Maria, you know I am a righteous man
    Of my virtue I am justly proud

  180. @Yadd

    But are the WASPs more comfortable with airing dirty laundry than are the Irish-Americans your wife has interacted with? What you describe about the Irish here sounds typically north European, rather than specifically Catholic.

     

    Nope. American Irish Catholics. The Catholicism just supercharges their perverse nature. It forces them to subjugate their Irishishness. Don’t start trying to defend the Irish Catholics, especially the American ones. They have an historical laundry list of debauchery, malfeasance, lack of self-control, bald-faced perversion, and pointless flightful fancy that has been observed and commented on by many of our founding father's, all the way forward to contemporary observers, and the Irish social manifest hasn't changed much, except for the Boston Irish, who are now even worse.

    It’s not by accident that the typical sympathetic response to anyone wronged by a malicious Irishman is, "well, what did you expect? It’s really your fault. He's an Irish N-word, and you allowed him to talk to you, anyway."

    The Irish cannot be changed. They can only be successfully threatened, sometimes. Otherwise jail is the only way to get them to consistently contribute to a society, bsimply by not being around. And btw, there’s no typical Irishman who has ever gained entry to the vagina of a proper WASP while she was awake, unthreatened, sober, and of sound mind. It’s simply impossible.


    An Anecdote Illustrating Something of the Irish Character by P.J. O'Rourke:

    There was an Irishman who got so drunk while visiting Rome, that he kissed his wife, and beat the Pope's foot to a pulp with a coal shovel.

    Somewhere I just read an anecdote ’bout the actor Peter O’Toole. Asked by a lady reporter,after his success in “Lawrence”,if he is now being chased by hordes of women,he replied,” I don’t need movies for that!”

  181. @Anonymous
    Roche is an Irish surname of Norman descent.

    Roche is also an Ashkenazic variation of Rauch. Plus he doesn’t look terribly Irish.

    https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=roch

  182. @Anon 2
    No offense but in continental Europe one never heard much about Ireland
    in the 1960s or '70s because of its small size and a tiny population,
    and perhaps the fact that Ireland basically sat out WW II and so never entered
    the European wartime imagination. Hence it was a shock for Europeans to visit the
    United States when the Irish seemed to be everywhere, starting with the
    Kennedy clan, the Daleys in Chicago, Cardinal Terence Cooke, etc. Ultimately,
    that's not surprising as 33 million Americans (or 10%) claim Irish ancestry.

    Irish-Catholics in the US do, indeed, have a fairly strong ethnic identity.

    But that is not true for Irish-Protestants, whether Scots-Irish or Anglo-Irish even though there are more Americans with Irish Protestant ancestry than Irish Catholics, a fact that many Irish Americans are unaware of.

    The most successful Irish Presbyterians (e.g. the Pittsburgh Mellons) tended to join the same social stratum as rich Episcopalians (American term for Anglicans) and were seen by others as simply another sort of high-caste WASP.

    The least successful Scotch-Irish (e.g. Appalachian whites) obviously did not associate with high-caste WASPs but rarely celebrated their Irish ancestry, either. Of all Americans, they are most likely to refer to their own ethnic background as simply “American.”

  183. @Jim Don Bob
    Right. I used to read Grenier in the Washington Times.

    It's one of my favorite quotes, and it sounds like it could have been Orwell.

    The Grenier Orwell quote is a little like the most famous Chesterton quote about those who stop believing in God don’t believe in nothing, they believe in anything. That wasn’t actually by Chesterton, it was by a Chesterton scholar who was quoting Chesterton at length and really got into the swing of things and actually topped Chesterton. The pseudo-Chesterton quote is in an unusual class of quotes. It was neither intended to mislead about who wrote it nor is it just some random quote ascribed to somebody really famous like Churchill or Einstein. It’s a really punchy summary of Chesterton, which Chesterton would have liked to have said.

    The Grenier quote comes close to Orwell, although it strikes me as positing something that Orwell might have said if he lived much longer. But who knows what Orwell’s political evolution would have looked like?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Sounds like a similar situation with “Science advances one funeral at a time”, which is a pithier version of statements to the same effect by Max Planck.
  184. @Evocatus
    Fitzpatrick is, or was, originally a Gaelic surname; Mac Giolla Phadraig. The other Fitz surnames (Fitzgerald, Fitzmaurice, Fitzgibbon etc.) are Norman in origin.

    Doesn’t Fitz- mean “bastard son of”?

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Yes, but son of some nobleman or royal.
  185. Not in those far off days, but later, yes.

    The FitzClarences in England are descendants of the illegitimate brood of William Duke of Clarence, later William IV, King of England. He had at least ten bastards by Dorothea Jordan, so there are a lot of them around.

    Fitzroy and Fitzjames are earlier occurrences, from the 17th century. The first descend from Charles II and the second from his brother James.

    • Replies: @Lot
    There were also once FitzEmpresses:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_FitzEmpress
  186. @Desiderius
    Doesn’t Fitz- mean “bastard son of”?

    Yes, but son of some nobleman or royal.

    • Replies: @Anon
    As the Seigneur de Palo Alto, as he might perhaps then have been called, explained above, it was that way only in certain circumstances. Landless people who (if they were Norman nobles) often became adventurers were named this way, as were bastards (if anyone cared to acknowledge them) since they wouldn't be named for the land they didn't get. But sometimes they had regular surnames, like John Stewart, illegitimate son of James V of Scotland and legitimate father of Francis, Earl of Bothwell.
  187. Anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @PV van der Byl
    Yes, but son of some nobleman or royal.

    As the Seigneur de Palo Alto, as he might perhaps then have been called, explained above, it was that way only in certain circumstances. Landless people who (if they were Norman nobles) often became adventurers were named this way, as were bastards (if anyone cared to acknowledge them) since they wouldn’t be named for the land they didn’t get. But sometimes they had regular surnames, like John Stewart, illegitimate son of James V of Scotland and legitimate father of Francis, Earl of Bothwell.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Well, probably better to be a royal bastard (think of how many English Dukes qualified) than the legitimate issue of a peasant!
  188. @Sean
    I saw an interview with white members of an Apartheid era South African state death squad, and they said torturing people to death affected them greatly, they lost their sex drive ect. Bolsonaro looks very European, I suspect he would not enjoy mercilessly victimising innocent people (for you have to go after the families to be effective) at all. I don't know that Brazilian Reds are Leftist in that Postmodern truth-does-not matter sense. I think they believe they represent Enlightenment Truth a la Rousseau and Marx. There are people on the Left (and Right) who say anything to win power. But Leftie Žižek has a point about the old Left (and Neocon Right) claim to have access to timeless truth :-

    “Let us engage in a mental experiment by way of trying to construct proverbial wisdom out of the relationship between terrestrial life, its pleasures, and its Beyond. If ones says, “Forget about the afterlife, about the Elsewhere, seize the day, enjoy life fully here and now, it’s the only life you’ve got!” it sounds deep. “If one says exactly the opposite (“Do not get trapped in the illusory and vain pleasures of earthly life; money, power, and passions are all destined to vanish into thin air – think about eternity!”), it also sounds deep. “If one combines the two sides (“Bring Eternity into your everyday life, live your life on this earth as if it is already permeated by Eternity!”), we get another profound thought. [...] “Needless to add that, by uniting mystery and simplicity, one again obtains a wisdom: “The ultimate, unfathomable mystery of life resides in its very simplicity, in the simple fact that there is life.” ”
     
    Hence, effective political rhetoric must bring out the background conditions that makes salient a truth. In Brazil the votes will be cast against a background of disorder in many parts of the country

    Bolsonaro looks very European, I suspect he would not enjoy mercilessly victimising innocent people (for you have to go after the families to be effective) at all.

    Yeah, I think he wouldn’t. But then, he needn’t do it himself… plenty of less white followers (including his vice-president) could do the job. But they won’t, it’s just rhetorics. If they win, expect no legalization of torture and no increase in the amount of extrajudicial torture already applied.

    I don’t know that Brazilian Reds are Leftist in that Postmodern truth-does-not matter sense. I think they believe they represent Enlightenment Truth a la Rousseau and Marx.

    We have them all. Unfortunately, much like in the United States, the Postmodern Identity-politics one gained more space than ever should. Which is why the Left is losing right now.

    In Brazil the votes will be cast against a background of disorder in many parts of the country

    Indeed, but fortunately nothing serious happened. The votes are already cast and counted, Bolsonaro got 47% and will go to dispute the second round. We’ll see how it goes for the next 3 weeks.

  189. @Anonymous

    Moldova (17.4 )
    Belarus (17.1)
    Lithuania (16.2)
    Russia (14.5)
    Czech Republic (14.1)
    Romania (12.9)
    Serbia (12.9)
    Australia (12.6)
    Portugal (12.5)
    Slovakia (12.5)
     
    Australians represent!

    https://ageofshitlords.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/shit-poster.png

    From Jack D’s link (twice removed):

  190. @Twinkie
    I don’t take this kind of national “competition” seriously.

    Alcohol consumption surveys and excise tax records allow good international alcohol consumption comparisons in many countries.

  191. @Old Palo Altan
    Not in those far off days, but later, yes.

    The FitzClarences in England are descendants of the illegitimate brood of William Duke of Clarence, later William IV, King of England. He had at least ten bastards by Dorothea Jordan, so there are a lot of them around.

    Fitzroy and Fitzjames are earlier occurrences, from the 17th century. The first descend from Charles II and the second from his brother James.

    There were also once FitzEmpresses:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_FitzEmpress

  192. @Steve Sailer
    The Grenier Orwell quote is a little like the most famous Chesterton quote about those who stop believing in God don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything. That wasn't actually by Chesterton, it was by a Chesterton scholar who was quoting Chesterton at length and really got into the swing of things and actually topped Chesterton. The pseudo-Chesterton quote is in an unusual class of quotes. It was neither intended to mislead about who wrote it nor is it just some random quote ascribed to somebody really famous like Churchill or Einstein. It's a really punchy summary of Chesterton, which Chesterton would have liked to have said.

    The Grenier quote comes close to Orwell, although it strikes me as positing something that Orwell might have said if he lived much longer. But who knows what Orwell's political evolution would have looked like?

    Sounds like a similar situation with “Science advances one funeral at a time”, which is a pithier version of statements to the same effect by Max Planck.

  193. @Rosamond Vincy
    We like to know which rules we're breaking.

    Yep. Venial vs mortal sin and the concept of doing penance (faith plus works) help us sleep at night.

  194. @Buzz Mohawk
    The Catholic girls, on the other hand... The ones who go bad... Fun times.

    My wife just told me about a conversation she had this week with a friend whose daughter goes to a Catholic girls high school. It sounds like there's a lot of drinking and f*cking going on. What they say about repressed girls is true: some of them go wild.

    The freakiest girl I dated in college was Catholic. She smoked, did drugs and brought boys home from the clubs. By the time I dated her she had a reputation. Hilariously, she told me that when she had children she was going to insist that they go a Catholic church, catechism, the whole thing, and receive the same indoctrination she did.

    What they say about repressed girls is true: some of them go wild.

    Most “Catholic” schools are neither Catholic nor “repressive.”

    Don’t forget that only a minority of Catholics are actual Catholics, i.e. follow the teachings of the Church and live them.

  195. @Anon 2
    As someone who was raised Catholic (although not Irish), I wouldn't necessarily
    call it "guilt," just a sense that one doesn't measure up to the impossible ideals
    of saintliness one hears about in Sunday sermons, starting with Jesus, and then
    with people like St. Francis of Assisi, St. Thérèse of Lisieux, St. Faustina Kowalska
    or St. Padre Pio. You ask yourself: do I have a healing presence or do miracles flow
    through me everywhere I go? And the answer is usually 'no.'

    You either gain power over matter through science and technology or through
    miracles. Science and technology have been extremely successful in the last
    300 years (although they became tarnished because we now know that nothing
    is as effective as science if you want kill people with very high efficiency).
    Protestantism which (except for Evangelicalism) is the first step
    toward agnosticism, basically gave up on miracles, and has turned to
    science in its quest for salvation. Catholics still believe in miracles but
    also realize that apparently you cannot become a miracle worker without
    extreme sensory deprivation, mainly fasting and celibacy, as evidenced
    by the individuals listed above. And how many people are capable of that?

    What's interesting is that science appears to be running out of steam.
    Nobody is making great discoveries anymore, not even in biomedical
    sciences. And people obviously need healing, e.g., of opioid addiction
    or alcoholism. So who's gonna heal them? Our hopes placed in science
    and medicine are being dashed, and this seems to be the biggest trend
    today: people are turning once again to spiritual healing (as promised
    by Mary Baker Eddy) and to alternative medicine, and away from science.

    “Nobody is making great discoveries anymore, not even in biomedical sciences. “

    I sort of agree with a lot of your post, but that’s just not true. Someone on Twitter the other day posted a graph of how 5-year cancer survival rates have increased over the last 20 years – and the gains are impressive. It’s true that the “great discovery” was DNA, but the many discoveries which are flowing from that will keep going for decades, just as physics and astronomy advanced in the post-relativity years.

    Here’s one impressive advance – regenerating spinal cord after it has been severed (by IIRC an angry husband with a knife). I’m sorry to see the good prof has died, a most useful life.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/21/geoffrey-raisman-obituary

  196. @Anon
    As the Seigneur de Palo Alto, as he might perhaps then have been called, explained above, it was that way only in certain circumstances. Landless people who (if they were Norman nobles) often became adventurers were named this way, as were bastards (if anyone cared to acknowledge them) since they wouldn't be named for the land they didn't get. But sometimes they had regular surnames, like John Stewart, illegitimate son of James V of Scotland and legitimate father of Francis, Earl of Bothwell.

    Well, probably better to be a royal bastard (think of how many English Dukes qualified) than the legitimate issue of a peasant!

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