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Independent: Sacha Baron Cohen Survived 'Cancel Culture' by Evolving Instead of Moaning
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From The Independent in the UK, a good example of my long-running theme about how discourse in English-speaking world is deteriorating toward a child’s view of Good Guys vs. Bad Guys based on identity Pokemon Points and partisanship. The leftist critic says that, while you might think, Sacha Baron Cohen deserves cancelation, not that cancelation exists, for making fun of hip-hop fans, Muslims, and gays, but unlike Bad Guy comedians like Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappelle, SBC has saved himself from cancelation (which is a right-wing myth) by “evolving” by Punching Up (i.e., making fun of Republican voters) and demanding that the little people be censored by social media monopolies under the guidance of the ADL:

Borat 2: Sacha Baron Cohen survived ‘cancel culture’ by evolving instead of moaning

While his peers fret about being unable to tell jokes anymore, Sacha Baron Cohen has carefully avoided so-called ‘cancellation’ despite a dubious track record with race and stereotyping, writes Adam White

16 hours ago

The “cancel culture” narrative promoted by the right-wing, if it existed, should have long ago led to Sacha Baron Cohen’s downfall. The British comic became a household name playing Ali G, a white, middle-class male appropriating black culture and hip-hop vernacular. It was a satire at the expense of men like Ali G, individuals trying on a persona they had no real right to adopt, but was also criticised for making hip-hop culture the butt of the joke, too – whether deliberately or inadvertently. Much of the same criticism trailed his later creations, the antisemitic, xenophobic Kazakh journalist Borat and the flamboyant gay fashion designer Bruno, both of whom have been accused of contributing to racism and homophobia as much as exposing them. And yet, for all his apparent sins, Baron Cohen is still here.

This week marks the release of Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, a belated sequel to the first Borat movie that is just as perceptive, cringeworthy and crude. That its arrival hasn’t been serenaded by controversy or “cancellation”, the perceived ruining that occurs in the wake of Twitter backlash, speaks to how successfully Baron Cohen has navigated treacherous waters. His approach has always tended to punch up – exposing the hypocrisy, ignorance and hatred in those wielding power, and expressing sympathy towards those lower down the social ladder haplessly parroting them….

Last year, Baron Cohen condemned Google, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter for “deliberately amplifying … stories that appeal to our baser instincts and that trigger outrage and fear” via their algorithms. It was a rare act of celebrity activism directly targeting platforms usually off-limits for criticism, but also got to the root of Baron Cohen’s survival. Here is a comedian able to see the world from outside of himself, who is aware of politics, corruption and what truly matters, and then slips it all into his work. While it’s easy to be distracted by the absurdity of Republican politicians being tricked into advocating for three-year-olds owning guns (as South Carolina representative Joe Wilson did in Baron Cohen’s Who Is America? series last year), truth and horror always bubble under the surface.

Many of the comedy figures Baron Cohen became famous alongside have been unable to evolve their worldview. Ricky Gervais regularly froths at the mouth about “outrage mobs” censoring comedy; Dave Chappelle spent much of his recent Netflix special ranting about what he is and isn’t allowed to say; David Walliams and Matt Lucas, meanwhile, only seemed to realise their use of classist and racist stereotyping on Little Britain was a problem after the BBC pulled the show offline this summer amid a reckoning over blackface in comedy.

That few high-profile stars engulfed in recent social media storms have been truly “cancelled” is a mere technicality – JK Rowling’s books are still bestsellers, Woody Allen’s still getting his films financed, and many of us will have seen more of Laurence Fox’s face this year than we have our own. Yet so many comedians seem to be fretting about it, even while remaining gainfully employed, injecting every interview with claims that they can’t tell jokes anymore. Baron Cohen, meanwhile, seemingly spends his downtime in between projects reading and learning, rather than sitting in an expensive house getting increasingly pissed off about non-existent things.

… In effect, Baron Cohen subverted 2020 “cancellation” and the apparent extinction of outrageous comedy not by rejecting it or complaining about what a victim he has become, but by evolving and maturing. OK, based on the gleeful cringe of Borat Subsequent Moviefilm, maybe just the former.

 
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  1. *Man in Black voice*: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

    The Independent: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Cloudbuster

    "gleeful cringe"

    The above Independent snippet is pure cringe without the glee.

  2. Baron Cohen condemned Google, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter for “deliberately amplifying … stories that appeal to our baser instincts and that trigger outrage and fear”

    As opposed to what he does in his “comedy” where he entraps people into behaving poorly and films the consequences? I remember in the first film he starts singing “Throw the jew Down the Well” and entreats the audience to sing along after he’s completed several verses. They do so, which is evidence of their villainy, but it stains him not.

    • Thanks: fnn
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @gent

    Always seemed like "benign anti-Semitism" at worst, a bunch of hicks patronizing the third-world weirdo by going along with his culture, as opposed to getting blue-haired-SJW up in his face to school him about Kristallnacht in a Vox Media style (i.e. what they were supposed to do, as hicks...?) Fainting-couch reaction was funnier than clip itself; TNR's Martin Peretz rated it "scandalous," "chilling," "✰✰✰½, pick of the week"

    , @Neo-Socratic
    @gent


    I remember in the first film he starts singing “Throw the jew Down the Well”
     
    Should have won a Grammy.
  3. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:

    SBC has saved himself from cancelation (which is a right-wing myth) by “evolving” by Punching Up (i.e., making fun of Republican voters) and demanding that the little people be censored by social media monopolies under the guidance of the ADL:

    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign. For example, the Borat 2 movie has a scene where they tried to entrap Rudy Giuliani in some sort of underage sex sting. This scene has been reported on and hyped up in the media over the past couple days, just exactly when Giuliani has been uncovering and exposing the contents of Hunter Biden’s harddrive which features similar but much worse transgressions involving underage girls:

    “Confirmed: Trump Has Footage Of Hunter Biden Raping And Torturing Little Girls — Set To Release”

    https://www.infowars.com/posts/confirmed-trump-has-footage-of-hunter-biden-raping-and-torturing-little-girls-set-to-release/

    Alex Jones breaks down the bombshell developments surrounding Hunter Biden’s hard drive, which allegedly contain thousands of images and videos of sexually explicit material, including Hunter raping and torturing underage Chinese girls. President Trump is reportedly in possession of Hunter’s hard drive and is preparing to release it to the public.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign.
     
    Doesn't that qualify as "foreign interference"? Do these Baron Cohens have roots in Russia, perhaps?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    , @Not Raul
    @Anonymous

    Nobody forced Giuliani to jerk off on camera.

    He’s no La Guardia.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @TomSchmidt

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous


    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign. For example, the Borat 2 movie has a scene where they tried to entrap Rudy Giuliani in some sort of underage sex sting.
     
    I saw reports in the media a few months ago that "Intel Sources" had said that Giuliani was a conduit for russian disinformation. I wonder who those "Intel Sources" were? Maybe they were FBI agents who knew that he had copies of the E-mails that were in the FBI's possession, and they were putting this story out in the open to discredit the revelations about Hunter Biden's laptop. It may have been an attempt to preemptively defuse the scandal.
  4. I find this article, with its extreme and ugly hypocrisy, to be almost entirely repulsive.

    I appreciate the bit where he all but admits to never seeing his own face though. That is remarkably apt.

    • Replies: @Svigor
    @Not Only Wrathful

    "I appreciate the bit where he all but admits to never seeing his own face though. That is remarkably apt."

    Indeed. His tribe has done that collectively for 3k years.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

  5. I’m no slacker when it comes to run-on sentences, and don’t take this the wrong way, though you don’t seem to do that, as far as I recall, but that second sentence was a doozy.

    I personally don’t fret at all about being unable to tell jokes anymore. I just tell them. The reactions can be just as humorous as the jokes themselves. I have not yet learned to love Big Brother.

  6. Actually, you misspelled “cancellation” three times.

    So my first post got deleted in real time? LOL.

  7. OT:

    Why isn’t the anonymous report on Biden’s Chinese connections getting more coverage?

    https://www.baldingsworld.com/2020/10/22/report-on-biden-activities-with-china/

    I don’t use Twitter or Facebook, but my sense from looking in the places I usually look is that people aren’t promoting it. Is it fake?

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @Chrisnonymous

    I don't know but it reminds me of Ron Unzs article earlier this year where he pointed out that American military personnel(and I'm sure spooks) were at some kind of international military athletic gaming event and then magically a few weeks later COVID goes nuts and now we're in mask land......

    It'll be memoryholed unless Trump wins.

  8. I don’t always keep up with the latest developments in newspeak, so I didn’t realize that “evolution” was now a synonym for “submission”. Good to know.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Michael S

    google 'evolved on gay marriage' to see what all the boomer democrats had to say for themselves

  9. This must rank as one of the least perceptive articles I’ve ever read.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Rob McX

    Adam White of The Independent writes, "I like people like me."

    - - - end - - -

  10. Funny thing, RT came to the exact opposite conclusion

    Sleazy shirt-tucker Giuliani is the cheapest of all cheap shots in Sacha Baron Cohen’s patronising and predictable Borat 2

    The Borat sequel is a collection of easy laughs at the expense of conservatives, with the easiest of all involving Trump’s personal attorney. But, 14 years on, will even woke liberals fall for these tired old gags?

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/504422-borat-giuliani-baron-cohen-cheap/

    The answer to the rhetorical question is yes.

  11. @Rob McX
    This must rank as one of the least perceptive articles I've ever read.

    Replies: @ic1000

    Adam White of The Independent writes, “I like people like me.”

    – – – end – – –

  12. @Anonymous

    SBC has saved himself from cancelation (which is a right-wing myth) by “evolving” by Punching Up (i.e., making fun of Republican voters) and demanding that the little people be censored by social media monopolies under the guidance of the ADL:
     
    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign. For example, the Borat 2 movie has a scene where they tried to entrap Rudy Giuliani in some sort of underage sex sting. This scene has been reported on and hyped up in the media over the past couple days, just exactly when Giuliani has been uncovering and exposing the contents of Hunter Biden's harddrive which features similar but much worse transgressions involving underage girls:

    "Confirmed: Trump Has Footage Of Hunter Biden Raping And Torturing Little Girls — Set To Release"

    https://www.infowars.com/posts/confirmed-trump-has-footage-of-hunter-biden-raping-and-torturing-little-girls-set-to-release/

    Alex Jones breaks down the bombshell developments surrounding Hunter Biden’s hard drive, which allegedly contain thousands of images and videos of sexually explicit material, including Hunter raping and torturing underage Chinese girls. President Trump is reportedly in possession of Hunter’s hard drive and is preparing to release it to the public.
     

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Not Raul, @Mr. Anon

    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign.

    Doesn’t that qualify as “foreign interference”? Do these Baron Cohens have roots in Russia, perhaps?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Reg Cæsar

    SBC is British, of the sort the Lion of Leesburg condemned.

  13. Baron Cohen, meanwhile, seemingly spends his downtime in between projects reading and learning, rather than sitting in an expensive house getting increasingly pissed off about non-existent things.

    Baron Cohen subverted 2020 “cancellation” and the apparent extinction of outrageous comedy not by rejecting it or complaining about what a victim he has become, but by evolving and maturing.

    “Miserable goyim deplorables! You are not worthy to touch the hem of this Great Man’s garments!

  14. Suffice it to say that Baron Sacha Cohen is obviously a Zionist.

    That’s entirely sufficient. I don’t need to go further than that.

    • Agree: Svigor
  15. …exposing the hypocrisy, ignorance and hatred in those wielding power, and expressing sympathy towards those lower down the social ladder haplessly parroting them…

    Like the Gypsies in the last Borat movie?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Veracitor

    SBC’s people outrank Gypsies.

    , @Rob McX
    @Veracitor

    Indeed. Plus a bunch of ordinary people throughout the US that he conned and humiliated.

    Replies: @216

  16. @Anonymous

    SBC has saved himself from cancelation (which is a right-wing myth) by “evolving” by Punching Up (i.e., making fun of Republican voters) and demanding that the little people be censored by social media monopolies under the guidance of the ADL:
     
    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign. For example, the Borat 2 movie has a scene where they tried to entrap Rudy Giuliani in some sort of underage sex sting. This scene has been reported on and hyped up in the media over the past couple days, just exactly when Giuliani has been uncovering and exposing the contents of Hunter Biden's harddrive which features similar but much worse transgressions involving underage girls:

    "Confirmed: Trump Has Footage Of Hunter Biden Raping And Torturing Little Girls — Set To Release"

    https://www.infowars.com/posts/confirmed-trump-has-footage-of-hunter-biden-raping-and-torturing-little-girls-set-to-release/

    Alex Jones breaks down the bombshell developments surrounding Hunter Biden’s hard drive, which allegedly contain thousands of images and videos of sexually explicit material, including Hunter raping and torturing underage Chinese girls. President Trump is reportedly in possession of Hunter’s hard drive and is preparing to release it to the public.
     

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Not Raul, @Mr. Anon

    Nobody forced Giuliani to jerk off on camera.

    He’s no La Guardia.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Not Raul


    Nobody forced Giuliani to jerk off on camera.
     
    That helps to explain the fact that he *didn't* jack off on camera.
    , @TomSchmidt
    @Not Raul

    Can a man who has had a prostatectomy jerk off on camera?

  17. @Veracitor

    ...exposing the hypocrisy, ignorance and hatred in those wielding power, and expressing sympathy towards those lower down the social ladder haplessly parroting them…
     
    Like the Gypsies in the last Borat movie?

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Rob McX

    SBC’s people outrank Gypsies.

  18. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:

    SBC’s success is in large part due to appealing to multiple audiences, each of which thinks that someone else is the butt of the joke. Having these multiple audiences gives SBC plausible deniability and protects him, especially with a compliant media and critic community.

    For example, for much of the ordinary American audience for the original Borat movie, the butt of the joke was a foreign Muslim/Middle Eastern man and his people and culture. For ordinary Americans, especially at that time in the 2000s after 9/11 and during the Bush wars, a man who looks and sounds like Borat from a country with a name that ends in “stan” is interpreted as some sort of Muslim/Middle Easterner.

    For the liberal audience, the butt of the joke were the ordinary conservative Americans that Borat interacts with. These liberals rationalize away any discomfort they may have with it seeming like a bigoted joke against Muslims/Mideasterners by assuring themselves that it’s really about mocking and exposing how dumb and bigoted ordinary conservative white Americans are.

    And for SBC himself and others, it’s a Russian/Slavic joke as Steve has demonstrated.

    • Agree: SFG
  19. Five years ago this little mincer was a “reporter” on the University of East Anglia’s student newspaper.

    Now that he’s started shaving he’s graduated to demonstrating his ignorance of postmodern irony and its successor. There are two reasons SBC hasn’t been cancelled; i) he’s Jewish; and ii) he’s ridden the postmodern irony-to-black-terror wave perfectly while plods like Mincer White ride shotgun.

    You have to wonder what Mincer White did to get that job at the Independent. Or why he fawns over SBC so.

    • Agree: V. Hickel
  20. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign.
     
    Doesn't that qualify as "foreign interference"? Do these Baron Cohens have roots in Russia, perhaps?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    SBC is British, of the sort the Lion of Leesburg condemned.

  21. Borat’s cable series “The Spy” could have been produced by the Mossad. Syrians and Arabs are portrayed as idiots, drunks and cucks, Jews as total heroes. Now to a point historically that might have been true, but it was so over the top as to be ridiculous. I have no problem with Israelis defending themselves, but the end of the story was the hero was caught, tortured and killed.

    Chapelle didn’t rant at all, he simply spelled out reality. Gervais didn’t “froth”, he is pointing out the ridiculousness of cancel culture, how free speech and “hate speech” are incompatible.

    What is it about Cohen that is so wonderful, yet Chapelle and Gervais are bad? One of these things is not like the others, may be CHOSEN ?

    • Replies: @njguy73
    @Bugg

    Chapelle and Gervais are comedians.

    Cohen is a court jester.

    Replies: @bjondo

  22. @Veracitor

    ...exposing the hypocrisy, ignorance and hatred in those wielding power, and expressing sympathy towards those lower down the social ladder haplessly parroting them…
     
    Like the Gypsies in the last Borat movie?

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Rob McX

    Indeed. Plus a bunch of ordinary people throughout the US that he conned and humiliated.

    • Replies: @216
    @Rob McX

    I suspect that UK libel laws might prevent these shenanigans.

    The real issue is that his visa here should be revoked.

  23. C’mon man! (((Sasha Baron Cohen))) (((SBC))) is a conservative, right, iSteve?

    Jack D, where are you to defend the (putative) conservative SBC.

    And please start with whether SBC is good for the juice (((joo-iss)))

  24. @Rob McX
    @Veracitor

    Indeed. Plus a bunch of ordinary people throughout the US that he conned and humiliated.

    Replies: @216

    I suspect that UK libel laws might prevent these shenanigans.

    The real issue is that his visa here should be revoked.

  25. Sacha Baron Cohen survives cancel culture…by being a member of the tribe: the only ethnic group in the world that is at once the richest, and the most powerful, and yet somehow the most oppressed.

    If you’re a member of the tribe, and/or you hate the people the tribe wants you to hate then you, too, can survive cancel culture.

    Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news (unless to lament the displacement of the Injuns) because the Pilgrims were 1) Anglo-Saxon 2) Christian. Those are the right people to hate.

    • Thanks: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @fnn
    @Wilkey

    Yes, who are the ruling elites of the American Empire? We know it's not the WASPs.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Wilkey

    Agree. The whole Independent article could be distilled down to two words: Jewish privilege.

    , @Colin Wright
    @Wilkey

    '...Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news...'

    GOOD point.

    , @SFG
    @Wilkey

    I kinda wondered about that. Going off the reservation still seems to get you in trouble--Donald Sterling, Kyle Kashuv, etc. Baron Cohen seems to have calculated his political movements pretty carefully--go back to the old UK TV stuff and you can see him making fun of feminists, but his new show was a lot easier on Bernie Sanders than it was on the various Republicans it embarassed.

    I am seriously considering what to do if I ditch the career. I'm more or less at the border of FIRE (about 28x expenses) and probably have a life expectancy of about 30-40 years left. But I'm not really sure what I could do. Sure I wouldn't have to worry about being fired, but I also wouldn't have the resources to do much.

    Replies: @V. Hickel

    , @njguy73
    @Wilkey

    Where was the tribe for Woody Allen?

  26. Cohen was funny as the FFrench race car driver in Talladega Nights, but aside from that, he is not funny. In fact he is anti-funny: everyone around him becomes less funny, less attuned to real humor, just because of his snotty racist presence. When people are shown Cohen and are told This Is Funny, it makes them tone-deaf to comedy.

    Cohen is a snob and a flat-out hate-filled racist. He pretends to “attack power structures” while covertly (or rather clumsily, really) re-in forcing Jewish supremacism and Jewish power structures.

    Probably the reason he was so funny as the smug Formula One driver was because he was playing his real self.

    • Replies: @Escher
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    When was the last time we had bad Jewish stereotypes being made fun of?
    Muslims, white men and gays have been fair game.

  27. SBC is a disgusting human being who created a series of onscreen personalities of unprecedented crassness. His comedy is what “Human Centipede” is to horror. His fans and journos/talking heads covering his “oeuvre” are even more disgusting.

  28. A friend of mine knew SBC in the early 90s when he worked at some cable channel which, IIRC, had shows like the News Bunny (news read by a rabbit) and the Weather in Norwegian.

    His USP, over guys like Paul Kaye (see below), was that he could do his schtick without having to hop himself up with lots of speed and coke. He simply lacks the ability to be embarrassed.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=tXVBl9vje4w

  29. @Wilkey
    Sacha Baron Cohen survives cancel culture...by being a member of the tribe: the only ethnic group in the world that is at once the richest, and the most powerful, and yet somehow the most oppressed.

    If you’re a member of the tribe, and/or you hate the people the tribe wants you to hate then you, too, can survive cancel culture.

    Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news (unless to lament the displacement of the Injuns) because the Pilgrims were 1) Anglo-Saxon 2) Christian. Those are the right people to hate.

    Replies: @fnn, @Almost Missouri, @Colin Wright, @SFG, @njguy73

    Yes, who are the ruling elites of the American Empire? We know it’s not the WASPs.

  30. Eagerly awaiting SBC’s long-anticipated defenestration of Congressperson AOC or some other deserving SJW!

    • Disagree: V. Hickel
  31. I always found Ali G to be the most clever creation of Cohen’s by far

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Canadian Observer

    He picked on famous people, so you didn't feel bad.

    But after a few years they all knew the scam.

  32. Anon[224] • Disclaimer says:

    Is this comma a mistake?

    think, Sacha

    At any rate, can somebody diagram this sentence for me?

    The leftist critic says that, while you might think, Sacha Baron Cohen deserves cancelation, not that cancelation exists, for making fun of hip-hop fans, Muslims, and gays, but unlike Bad Guy comedians like Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappelle, SBC has saved himself from cancelation (which is a right-wing myth) by “evolving” by Punching Up (i.e., making fun of Republican voters) and demanding that the little people be censored by social media monopolies under the guidance of the ADL.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    @Anon

    We are well past the point where the left can only maintain their viability and dominance over the media because of help from big tech and the corporate sponsorship. The same is true with politics. As a consequence, their product is getting shittier and if it was not for the ability to suppress content, they would have lost already.

    It would seem to be so easy for a young ambitious film maker to do a pastiche of Borat but one aiming at his tribe / team. “Hey thanks’ Borat, you made ethnic humor cool again”. Even if the thing had to go underground, it would be a cult classic.

    Just looking that the Biden Post articles, one can only say that we are in a samizdat culture now. Not completely, but enough so that it is impacting the public's ability to view what they want. We don’t have to smuggle books written on toilet paper in and out of prison; yet, but that is our intended future whether we know it or not.

  33. Anonymous[504] • Disclaimer says:
    @gent

    Baron Cohen condemned Google, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter for “deliberately amplifying … stories that appeal to our baser instincts and that trigger outrage and fear”
     
    As opposed to what he does in his "comedy" where he entraps people into behaving poorly and films the consequences? I remember in the first film he starts singing "Throw the jew Down the Well" and entreats the audience to sing along after he's completed several verses. They do so, which is evidence of their villainy, but it stains him not.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Neo-Socratic

    Always seemed like “benign anti-Semitism” at worst, a bunch of hicks patronizing the third-world weirdo by going along with his culture, as opposed to getting blue-haired-SJW up in his face to school him about Kristallnacht in a Vox Media style (i.e. what they were supposed to do, as hicks…?) Fainting-couch reaction was funnier than clip itself; TNR’s Martin Peretz rated it “scandalous,” “chilling,” “✰✰✰½, pick of the week”

  34. So ,Cohen survived cancelation which doesn’t exist ,I thought Woody Allen’s last film wasn’t released i.e. canceled .

  35. @Wilkey
    Sacha Baron Cohen survives cancel culture...by being a member of the tribe: the only ethnic group in the world that is at once the richest, and the most powerful, and yet somehow the most oppressed.

    If you’re a member of the tribe, and/or you hate the people the tribe wants you to hate then you, too, can survive cancel culture.

    Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news (unless to lament the displacement of the Injuns) because the Pilgrims were 1) Anglo-Saxon 2) Christian. Those are the right people to hate.

    Replies: @fnn, @Almost Missouri, @Colin Wright, @SFG, @njguy73

    Agree. The whole Independent article could be distilled down to two words: Jewish privilege.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  36. most people…now…know who he really is. Most Americans will not pay to see his movies ever again. Being smug and hating Americans does not work out in the long run- Sacha had a long run. But, it is over now. No one, who is around 22, will even know he existed.” It’s not like he won an Oscar or sumthin.” And, his hatred of early Americans who established this country (Scots, English, and later, Irish) is so obvious – he hates the heritage Americans.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Lagertha

    He's not even American, he's English. Yet he refers to America as "our country" and lectures us on what our free speech should be.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Pericles

    , @Escher
    @Lagertha

    America! Everyone hates and mocks it, but they all want to move there.

  37. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:

    Don’t care how many passports this sh!thead has procured for himself. He’s a damn hostile foreigner meddling in our election.

    Cohen may have US citizenship or resident alien status (most of the elite class have) etc but this guy is just another economic opportunist here for the $$$. No love of country except as an economic zone.

    There’s an entire contingent of UK “intelligentsia” and celebs who feel perfectly entitled to work feverishly via media to get American Democrats elected. Not using code for Jews here. Lots of goys involved.

    • Agree: Dissident
  38. “Here is a [Zionist] able to see the [goyim] from outside of [untranslatable Yiddish word], who is aware of [peasants], [blood libel] and what truly matters, and then slips it all into his work.”

  39. And yet, for all his apparent sins, Baron Cohen is still here.

    It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

  40. @Not Raul
    @Anonymous

    Nobody forced Giuliani to jerk off on camera.

    He’s no La Guardia.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @TomSchmidt

    Nobody forced Giuliani to jerk off on camera.

    That helps to explain the fact that he *didn’t* jack off on camera.

    • Thanks: HammerJack
  41. @gent

    Baron Cohen condemned Google, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter for “deliberately amplifying … stories that appeal to our baser instincts and that trigger outrage and fear”
     
    As opposed to what he does in his "comedy" where he entraps people into behaving poorly and films the consequences? I remember in the first film he starts singing "Throw the jew Down the Well" and entreats the audience to sing along after he's completed several verses. They do so, which is evidence of their villainy, but it stains him not.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Neo-Socratic

    I remember in the first film he starts singing “Throw the jew Down the Well”

    Should have won a Grammy.

  42. Baron Cohen subverted 2020 “cancellation” and the apparent extinction of outrageous comedy not by rejecting it or complaining about what a victim he has become, but by evolving and maturing.

    But who will cancel the cancellers?

  43. Current top story on Google News.
    I guess this is OT

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @HammerJack

    "Google News and CNN: Russia is the real danger"

    Forget the Cohen/Guest tired and cruel punching down mockumentary model; it's about as funny as dust or SNL. Tragicomedy is now the only relevant subgenre. It fits perfectly with life.

  44. Satchel Baron Kaufman is a fraud. Russell Brand poses as a fraud.

  45. @Lagertha
    most people...now...know who he really is. Most Americans will not pay to see his movies ever again. Being smug and hating Americans does not work out in the long run- Sacha had a long run. But, it is over now. No one, who is around 22, will even know he existed." It's not like he won an Oscar or sumthin." And, his hatred of early Americans who established this country (Scots, English, and later, Irish) is so obvious - he hates the heritage Americans.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Escher

    He’s not even American, he’s English. Yet he refers to America as “our country” and lectures us on what our free speech should be.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Chrisnonymous

    "He's not even American, he's English."

    Umm, he's.... not even English.

    The sooner everybody understands this sort of thing, the sooner we can wrap it all up and have a comfortable morning breakfast for once in a way.

    , @Pericles
    @Chrisnonymous


    He’s not even American, he’s English. Yet he refers to America as “our country”

     

    Maybe he doesn't mean the English when he says it's "their" country.
  46. @Wilkey
    Sacha Baron Cohen survives cancel culture...by being a member of the tribe: the only ethnic group in the world that is at once the richest, and the most powerful, and yet somehow the most oppressed.

    If you’re a member of the tribe, and/or you hate the people the tribe wants you to hate then you, too, can survive cancel culture.

    Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news (unless to lament the displacement of the Injuns) because the Pilgrims were 1) Anglo-Saxon 2) Christian. Those are the right people to hate.

    Replies: @fnn, @Almost Missouri, @Colin Wright, @SFG, @njguy73

    ‘…Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news…’

    GOOD point.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  47. The timing of this film’s release shows Cohen is trying to harm Trump and poison the electorate. This is 100% anti-GOP propaganda, likely supported by the British state.

    The British press will always support one of their own doing this kind of dirty work. Meanwhile the Brits would never accept an American comic running around the UK crashing political events and mocking their leaders.

    But here’s the good news. Most Americans don’t care what the Brits say, think, or produce in the way of “culture.” I find it odd that so many people focus on Cohen’s Jewishness. His nationality is at least as significant.

  48. Ricky Gervais regularly froths at the mouth about “outrage mobs” censoring comedy; Dave Chappelle spent much of his recent Netflix special ranting about what he is and isn’t allowed to say;

    The objectivity of the author is evidenced by the use of neutral words and phrases like “ranting” and “froths at the mouth”.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Escher

    If Ricky Gervais "froths" it's done with impeccable timing. The mockumentary sub-genre is home for marginal talents like Cohen and Christopher Guest.

  49. @Lagertha
    most people...now...know who he really is. Most Americans will not pay to see his movies ever again. Being smug and hating Americans does not work out in the long run- Sacha had a long run. But, it is over now. No one, who is around 22, will even know he existed." It's not like he won an Oscar or sumthin." And, his hatred of early Americans who established this country (Scots, English, and later, Irish) is so obvious - he hates the heritage Americans.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Escher

    America! Everyone hates and mocks it, but they all want to move there.

  50. @Wilkey
    Sacha Baron Cohen survives cancel culture...by being a member of the tribe: the only ethnic group in the world that is at once the richest, and the most powerful, and yet somehow the most oppressed.

    If you’re a member of the tribe, and/or you hate the people the tribe wants you to hate then you, too, can survive cancel culture.

    Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news (unless to lament the displacement of the Injuns) because the Pilgrims were 1) Anglo-Saxon 2) Christian. Those are the right people to hate.

    Replies: @fnn, @Almost Missouri, @Colin Wright, @SFG, @njguy73

    I kinda wondered about that. Going off the reservation still seems to get you in trouble–Donald Sterling, Kyle Kashuv, etc. Baron Cohen seems to have calculated his political movements pretty carefully–go back to the old UK TV stuff and you can see him making fun of feminists, but his new show was a lot easier on Bernie Sanders than it was on the various Republicans it embarassed.

    I am seriously considering what to do if I ditch the career. I’m more or less at the border of FIRE (about 28x expenses) and probably have a life expectancy of about 30-40 years left. But I’m not really sure what I could do. Sure I wouldn’t have to worry about being fired, but I also wouldn’t have the resources to do much.

    • Replies: @V. Hickel
    @SFG

    If i didnt have young kids i would move to Thailand. 1500-2K/month and you are golden. sounds like you could swing 3K which would put you in fat-cat status.

    Replies: @SFG

  51. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Cohen was funny as the FFrench race car driver in Talladega Nights, but aside from that, he is not funny. In fact he is anti-funny: everyone around him becomes less funny, less attuned to real humor, just because of his snotty racist presence. When people are shown Cohen and are told This Is Funny, it makes them tone-deaf to comedy.

    Cohen is a snob and a flat-out hate-filled racist. He pretends to "attack power structures" while covertly (or rather clumsily, really) re-in forcing Jewish supremacism and Jewish power structures.

    Probably the reason he was so funny as the smug Formula One driver was because he was playing his real self.

    Replies: @Escher

    When was the last time we had bad Jewish stereotypes being made fun of?
    Muslims, white men and gays have been fair game.

  52. @Chrisnonymous
    @Lagertha

    He's not even American, he's English. Yet he refers to America as "our country" and lectures us on what our free speech should be.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Pericles

    “He’s not even American, he’s English.”

    Umm, he’s…. not even English.

    The sooner everybody understands this sort of thing, the sooner we can wrap it all up and have a comfortable morning breakfast for once in a way.

    • Agree: Hugo Silva, reiner Tor
  53. yeah, he ‘evolved’ from being a brilliant, somewhat even-handed prankster into a vicious unfunny conservative-basher. i just watched Subsequent, and while i loved the old Borat from the TV show and first movie, (to the dismay of family and colleagues who have long since tired of my 14 yr old ‘anoos’ jokes) this had one LOL and two chuckles, tops. The vulgarity and anti white-conservative- southernism ruined it for me.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @V. Hickel

    I suspect at least some of it, at least in the Ali G-to-Bruno era, was that famous people know each other and figured out what he was doing and he rapidly had to pivot to fooling people who didn't watch HBO.

    Combine that with the decreasing tolerance for 'unwoke' comedy (you actually have him saying 'is it because I is black?' as an early catchphrase) and he probably figured out pretty quick where the money was and what he had to do to continue his career.

    Besides, it's not as if he could go the other way--all the liberals and progressives who he would make look stupid know who he is now.

    That said: he's mocking your people, and he's getting rich off it. Don't give him any money.

  54. He saved his career with the Giuliani prank. Until that happened, he was just a jerk playing the same aging act that was never very funny to begin with.

    As for the Giuliani prank, I don’t see why Giuliani even needs to be embarrassed. A woman posing as a TV reporter invites him into the bedroom of her hotel suite. Giuliani’s not married. So what’s the problem?

    The “scandal” is that in the movie that actress plays Borat’s 15-year-old daughter. So this is a scandal if you confuse movies with reality.

    • Thanks: Mr McKenna
  55. @SFG
    @Wilkey

    I kinda wondered about that. Going off the reservation still seems to get you in trouble--Donald Sterling, Kyle Kashuv, etc. Baron Cohen seems to have calculated his political movements pretty carefully--go back to the old UK TV stuff and you can see him making fun of feminists, but his new show was a lot easier on Bernie Sanders than it was on the various Republicans it embarassed.

    I am seriously considering what to do if I ditch the career. I'm more or less at the border of FIRE (about 28x expenses) and probably have a life expectancy of about 30-40 years left. But I'm not really sure what I could do. Sure I wouldn't have to worry about being fired, but I also wouldn't have the resources to do much.

    Replies: @V. Hickel

    If i didnt have young kids i would move to Thailand. 1500-2K/month and you are golden. sounds like you could swing 3K which would put you in fat-cat status.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @V. Hickel

    Thailand? Look, I may not have kids, but I'm not on the guest list at Epstein's yacht.

    Besides, this is my country. I was born here. I live here, to paraphrase John Milius. But what am I supposed to do? Write DJT a 2.7K check? Run for office? (Trust me, this will not work.) Toss money at a few 'conservatives' who mostly want to avoid taxes for hedge fund managers and oil companies? Infiltrate the left and leak something to Breitbart?

    Replies: @black sea

  56. @Michael S
    I don't always keep up with the latest developments in newspeak, so I didn't realize that "evolution" was now a synonym for "submission". Good to know.

    Replies: @anonymous

    google ‘evolved on gay marriage’ to see what all the boomer democrats had to say for themselves

  57. @Anonymous

    SBC has saved himself from cancelation (which is a right-wing myth) by “evolving” by Punching Up (i.e., making fun of Republican voters) and demanding that the little people be censored by social media monopolies under the guidance of the ADL:
     
    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign. For example, the Borat 2 movie has a scene where they tried to entrap Rudy Giuliani in some sort of underage sex sting. This scene has been reported on and hyped up in the media over the past couple days, just exactly when Giuliani has been uncovering and exposing the contents of Hunter Biden's harddrive which features similar but much worse transgressions involving underage girls:

    "Confirmed: Trump Has Footage Of Hunter Biden Raping And Torturing Little Girls — Set To Release"

    https://www.infowars.com/posts/confirmed-trump-has-footage-of-hunter-biden-raping-and-torturing-little-girls-set-to-release/

    Alex Jones breaks down the bombshell developments surrounding Hunter Biden’s hard drive, which allegedly contain thousands of images and videos of sexually explicit material, including Hunter raping and torturing underage Chinese girls. President Trump is reportedly in possession of Hunter’s hard drive and is preparing to release it to the public.
     

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Not Raul, @Mr. Anon

    More than that, SBC seems to be working with Democratic operatives to help and cover for Biden during this campaign. For example, the Borat 2 movie has a scene where they tried to entrap Rudy Giuliani in some sort of underage sex sting.

    I saw reports in the media a few months ago that “Intel Sources” had said that Giuliani was a conduit for russian disinformation. I wonder who those “Intel Sources” were? Maybe they were FBI agents who knew that he had copies of the E-mails that were in the FBI’s possession, and they were putting this story out in the open to discredit the revelations about Hunter Biden’s laptop. It may have been an attempt to preemptively defuse the scandal.

  58. @Chrisnonymous
    @Lagertha

    He's not even American, he's English. Yet he refers to America as "our country" and lectures us on what our free speech should be.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Pericles

    He’s not even American, he’s English. Yet he refers to America as “our country”

    Maybe he doesn’t mean the English when he says it’s “their” country.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  59. What SBC does is called devolution, not evolution.

    • Agree: El Dato
  60. People at the Independent and like media outlets find Cohen useful because he attacks their perceived enemies like Republican politicians as highlighted in the article.

    Some readers may remember Operation Clark County in the state of Ohio when the UK Guardian newspaper tried to interfere in U.S. polls of 2004. The scheme backfired and provoked a torrent of abuse e.g. ‘limey assh*les’ etc.

    Meanwhile merely portraying Cohen’s people in films or plays is an alleged ‘hate’ crime. According to the ADL website Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice is ‘anti-Semitic’ . They also got upset over Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ .

  61. @V. Hickel
    yeah, he 'evolved' from being a brilliant, somewhat even-handed prankster into a vicious unfunny conservative-basher. i just watched Subsequent, and while i loved the old Borat from the TV show and first movie, (to the dismay of family and colleagues who have long since tired of my 14 yr old 'anoos' jokes) this had one LOL and two chuckles, tops. The vulgarity and anti white-conservative- southernism ruined it for me.

    Replies: @SFG

    I suspect at least some of it, at least in the Ali G-to-Bruno era, was that famous people know each other and figured out what he was doing and he rapidly had to pivot to fooling people who didn’t watch HBO.

    Combine that with the decreasing tolerance for ‘unwoke’ comedy (you actually have him saying ‘is it because I is black?’ as an early catchphrase) and he probably figured out pretty quick where the money was and what he had to do to continue his career.

    Besides, it’s not as if he could go the other way–all the liberals and progressives who he would make look stupid know who he is now.

    That said: he’s mocking your people, and he’s getting rich off it. Don’t give him any money.

  62. @V. Hickel
    @SFG

    If i didnt have young kids i would move to Thailand. 1500-2K/month and you are golden. sounds like you could swing 3K which would put you in fat-cat status.

    Replies: @SFG

    Thailand? Look, I may not have kids, but I’m not on the guest list at Epstein’s yacht.

    Besides, this is my country. I was born here. I live here, to paraphrase John Milius. But what am I supposed to do? Write DJT a 2.7K check? Run for office? (Trust me, this will not work.) Toss money at a few ‘conservatives’ who mostly want to avoid taxes for hedge fund managers and oil companies? Infiltrate the left and leak something to Breitbart?

    • Replies: @black sea
    @SFG

    I happened to watch a video this morning listing 10 towns in the US where you can live on $1,500 a month. You might think these are all ghost towns in the Mojave, but actually many are in pretty nice locations.

    I don't know what kind of work you do or would like to do, but you might check out some medium-sized college towns with a somewhat diversified economy. I know we all rag on colleges here, but they tend to make a town more interesting and lively.

    Replies: @SFG

  63. @Bugg
    Borat's cable series "The Spy" could have been produced by the Mossad. Syrians and Arabs are portrayed as idiots, drunks and cucks, Jews as total heroes. Now to a point historically that might have been true, but it was so over the top as to be ridiculous. I have no problem with Israelis defending themselves, but the end of the story was the hero was caught, tortured and killed.

    Chapelle didn't rant at all, he simply spelled out reality. Gervais didn't "froth", he is pointing out the ridiculousness of cancel culture, how free speech and "hate speech" are incompatible.

    What is it about Cohen that is so wonderful, yet Chapelle and Gervais are bad? One of these things is not like the others, may be CHOSEN ?

    Replies: @njguy73

    Chapelle and Gervais are comedians.

    Cohen is a court jester.

    • Replies: @bjondo
    @njguy73

    "Court jester" elevates Cohen.
    More like "gutter jester".

    Replies: @njguy73

  64. @Wilkey
    Sacha Baron Cohen survives cancel culture...by being a member of the tribe: the only ethnic group in the world that is at once the richest, and the most powerful, and yet somehow the most oppressed.

    If you’re a member of the tribe, and/or you hate the people the tribe wants you to hate then you, too, can survive cancel culture.

    Right now we are in the middle of the 400 year anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower, and the settling of Plymouth Colony. A small colony that made an enormous contribution to the history of the United States and to the world. But you’ll hear almost nothing about it in the news (unless to lament the displacement of the Injuns) because the Pilgrims were 1) Anglo-Saxon 2) Christian. Those are the right people to hate.

    Replies: @fnn, @Almost Missouri, @Colin Wright, @SFG, @njguy73

    Where was the tribe for Woody Allen?

  65. @SFG
    @V. Hickel

    Thailand? Look, I may not have kids, but I'm not on the guest list at Epstein's yacht.

    Besides, this is my country. I was born here. I live here, to paraphrase John Milius. But what am I supposed to do? Write DJT a 2.7K check? Run for office? (Trust me, this will not work.) Toss money at a few 'conservatives' who mostly want to avoid taxes for hedge fund managers and oil companies? Infiltrate the left and leak something to Breitbart?

    Replies: @black sea

    I happened to watch a video this morning listing 10 towns in the US where you can live on $1,500 a month. You might think these are all ghost towns in the Mojave, but actually many are in pretty nice locations.

    I don’t know what kind of work you do or would like to do, but you might check out some medium-sized college towns with a somewhat diversified economy. I know we all rag on colleges here, but they tend to make a town more interesting and lively.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @black sea

    I'm vague about my career and personal details for reasons that are probably obvious. ;)

    The question was more what, if anything, one person can do to stop the decline, given time but only a small amount of funds.

  66. @black sea
    @SFG

    I happened to watch a video this morning listing 10 towns in the US where you can live on $1,500 a month. You might think these are all ghost towns in the Mojave, but actually many are in pretty nice locations.

    I don't know what kind of work you do or would like to do, but you might check out some medium-sized college towns with a somewhat diversified economy. I know we all rag on colleges here, but they tend to make a town more interesting and lively.

    Replies: @SFG

    I’m vague about my career and personal details for reasons that are probably obvious. 😉

    The question was more what, if anything, one person can do to stop the decline, given time but only a small amount of funds.

  67. SBC survived cancel culture because he joined it.

    • Agree: Rob McX
    • Thanks: Neoconned
  68. @Not Raul
    @Anonymous

    Nobody forced Giuliani to jerk off on camera.

    He’s no La Guardia.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @TomSchmidt

    Can a man who has had a prostatectomy jerk off on camera?

  69. @Cloudbuster
    *Man in Black voice*: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

    The Independent: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “gleeful cringe”

    The above Independent snippet is pure cringe without the glee.

  70. @Escher

    Ricky Gervais regularly froths at the mouth about “outrage mobs” censoring comedy; Dave Chappelle spent much of his recent Netflix special ranting about what he is and isn’t allowed to say;
     
    The objectivity of the author is evidenced by the use of neutral words and phrases like “ranting” and “froths at the mouth”.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    If Ricky Gervais “froths” it’s done with impeccable timing. The mockumentary sub-genre is home for marginal talents like Cohen and Christopher Guest.

  71. @HammerJack
    Current top story on Google News.
    I guess this is OT


    https://i.ibb.co/vJ1bvqh/Capture-2020-10-23-23-10-59-2.png

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “Google News and CNN: Russia is the real danger”

    Forget the Cohen/Guest tired and cruel punching down mockumentary model; it’s about as funny as dust or SNL. Tragicomedy is now the only relevant subgenre. It fits perfectly with life.

  72. On the subject of phony “punching up” narratives, Aaron Sorkin’s new Chicago 7 film appears to imply that the infamous judge presiding over the trial, Julius Hoffman, was non-Jewish (both of his parents were in fact Russian Jews). At one point during the trial, Sacha Baron Cohen’s Abbie Hoffman tells the judge that Abbie’s grandfather was a Russian Jew named Shaboznikov, but because he was “protesting anti-Semitism … he was assigned a name that would sound like yours.” The remark is a bit ambiguous (and real-life Abbie Hoffman did not say it), and it could be intended to mean that he was assigned a specifically Jewish-sounding name, except that Hoffman doesn’t strongly indicate Jewishness (think Philip Seymour, etc). I think it’s more likely that Sorkin is trying to imply that Judge Hoffman, who is the closest thing the movie has to a real villain, was non-Jewish because that fits better with Sorkin’s adorably outdated worldview in which American Jews are plucky upstarts battling a stuffy Protestant establishment. At another point in the movie, Judge Hoffman reacts with strong disapproval to Mark Rylance’s wonderfully portrayed William Kunstler saying “oh for the love of Christ” in front of the judge.

    Real-life Abbie, of course, famously yelled at Judge Hoffman that he was a ”shonda fur die goyim.”

    Interestingly, the only news outlet I found that picked up on the bizarre “name that would sound like yours” line was the Times of Israel, in an article complaining that the movie downplayed the Jewishness of many of the historical figures involved (including Judge Hoffman): https://www.timesofisrael.com/chicago-7-makes-its-case-but-trials-jewish-history-stricken-from-the-record/amp/

  73. @Anon
    Is this comma a mistake?

    think, Sacha
     
    At any rate, can somebody diagram this sentence for me?

    The leftist critic says that, while you might think, Sacha Baron Cohen deserves cancelation, not that cancelation exists, for making fun of hip-hop fans, Muslims, and gays, but unlike Bad Guy comedians like Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappelle, SBC has saved himself from cancelation (which is a right-wing myth) by “evolving” by Punching Up (i.e., making fun of Republican voters) and demanding that the little people be censored by social media monopolies under the guidance of the ADL.
     

    Replies: @Prof. Woland

    We are well past the point where the left can only maintain their viability and dominance over the media because of help from big tech and the corporate sponsorship. The same is true with politics. As a consequence, their product is getting shittier and if it was not for the ability to suppress content, they would have lost already.

    It would seem to be so easy for a young ambitious film maker to do a pastiche of Borat but one aiming at his tribe / team. “Hey thanks’ Borat, you made ethnic humor cool again”. Even if the thing had to go underground, it would be a cult classic.

    Just looking that the Biden Post articles, one can only say that we are in a samizdat culture now. Not completely, but enough so that it is impacting the public’s ability to view what they want. We don’t have to smuggle books written on toilet paper in and out of prison; yet, but that is our intended future whether we know it or not.

  74. @Chrisnonymous
    OT:

    Why isn't the anonymous report on Biden's Chinese connections getting more coverage?

    https://www.baldingsworld.com/2020/10/22/report-on-biden-activities-with-china/

    I don't use Twitter or Facebook, but my sense from looking in the places I usually look is that people aren't promoting it. Is it fake?

    Replies: @Neoconned

    I don’t know but it reminds me of Ron Unzs article earlier this year where he pointed out that American military personnel(and I’m sure spooks) were at some kind of international military athletic gaming event and then magically a few weeks later COVID goes nuts and now we’re in mask land……

    It’ll be memoryholed unless Trump wins.

  75. I used to like SBC’s irreverent humor, but after hearing of his anti-white anti-gentile rant I thought back to Borat and Bruno and realized he’s always been a self-righteous racist prick.

    • Replies: @L. Guapo
    @Fidelios Automata

    Im not a movie critic or even a very good writer but the old Borat had a kind of lovable "innocence" for the lack of a better term. As i mentioned earlier he was more of an equal-opportunity insulter. The new movie was almost 100% political and timed precisely to damage Trump. It also ratcheted up the vulgarity and general nastiness, and the female co-star had zero comedic talent. This is the guy I thought was funny:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYrgKApo6Pc

  76. @njguy73
    @Bugg

    Chapelle and Gervais are comedians.

    Cohen is a court jester.

    Replies: @bjondo

    “Court jester” elevates Cohen.
    More like “gutter jester”.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    @bjondo

    By "court jester" I mean "someone who only jests according to what the court allows him to." Cohen jests only to the extent that it confirms the prevailing orthodoxy. Chapelle and Gervais will take orthodoxy and shake it up.

  77. @Fidelios Automata
    I used to like SBC's irreverent humor, but after hearing of his anti-white anti-gentile rant I thought back to Borat and Bruno and realized he's always been a self-righteous racist prick.

    Replies: @L. Guapo

    Im not a movie critic or even a very good writer but the old Borat had a kind of lovable “innocence” for the lack of a better term. As i mentioned earlier he was more of an equal-opportunity insulter. The new movie was almost 100% political and timed precisely to damage Trump. It also ratcheted up the vulgarity and general nastiness, and the female co-star had zero comedic talent. This is the guy I thought was funny:

  78. @bjondo
    @njguy73

    "Court jester" elevates Cohen.
    More like "gutter jester".

    Replies: @njguy73

    By “court jester” I mean “someone who only jests according to what the court allows him to.” Cohen jests only to the extent that it confirms the prevailing orthodoxy. Chapelle and Gervais will take orthodoxy and shake it up.

  79. Sacha is just an angry douchebag. Comics who mock average/decent people usually, are sociopaths – people who have no real reason to like people. Cohen is really, a psychopath because he really, rilly, does not like people. And, SBC hates the audience who pays for the film tickets, but, this year, people he mocks and disdains may tell him to fuck off. I can only pray ;D

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
  80. The mask comes off.

    The goal is to get the entire Woke mob employed on the Silicon payroll.

  81. @Canadian Observer
    I always found Ali G to be the most clever creation of Cohen's by far

    Replies: @SFG

    He picked on famous people, so you didn’t feel bad.

    But after a few years they all knew the scam.

  82. The Borat PR team at Amazon is taking heavy flak for defacing a national monument in Britain as a publicity stunt:
    https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-general/cerne-abbas-giant-0014448

  83. FWIW, Jews are starting to notice that Borat is getting more insulting, and less funny.

    ‘Borat 2’ is a riot, but slandering a nation’s history goes too far
    https://forward.com/culture/456992/borat-2-amazon-kazakh-sacha-baron-cohen-rudy-giuliani-holocaust/

  84. NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani’s embarrassing scene. Of course, had this occurred by a person on his own cancel list, he would be at full throat regarding its importance so near the election. But such is the day and the life of a Gas Lighter.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Corvinus

    That's why you read both sides. ;)

    , @Dissident
    @Corvinus


    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani’s embarrassing scene.
     
    What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age? (Which, incidentally, is legal in some jurisdictions.) You think the self-righteous scolds who framed the former Mayor are above such weakness themselves? Not that I would ever condone fornication of any sort.
    Except, perhaps, to a limited, qualified extent, in certain instances where the intriguingly, tantalizingly fresh, tender, not necessarily legally younger member of the coupling is the male...
    (And never adultery (let alone incest*); at most fornication.)
    ("!more" tag used in absence of a "spoiler" one.)

    (*Perhaps the most depraved aspect of /ss is the prevalence of incest-themed material.)

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Dissident
    @Corvinus


    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani’s embarrassing scene.
     
    I thought Richard Spencer had a
    good take
    on this:

    This brings us to the recent scene involving Rudy Giuliani. I won't cast judgement on Rudy, because the scene is heavily edited and the whole thing is obviously a setup.

    Maybe Rudy was just tucking in his shirt... maybe he had images of an afternoon delight with a blonde bimbo dancing through his head. I wouldn't fault him if the latter were the case. He's a man, after all, and we can't expect moral perfection.

    But the whole message of the scene is something quite perverse. Heterosexual behavior is pathologized: Rudy is depicted as a creepy monster. The voice of morality comes in the form of a transexual making anal-sex jokes.

    Cohen, dressed as an out-of-control pervert, is puritanically scolding Rudy for, well, doing what red-blooded, healthy men have done since the Stone Age. That is truly perverse.
     

  85. @Corvinus
    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani's embarrassing scene. Of course, had this occurred by a person on his own cancel list, he would be at full throat regarding its importance so near the election. But such is the day and the life of a Gas Lighter.

    Replies: @SFG, @Dissident, @Dissident

    That’s why you read both sides. 😉

  86. @Corvinus
    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani's embarrassing scene. Of course, had this occurred by a person on his own cancel list, he would be at full throat regarding its importance so near the election. But such is the day and the life of a Gas Lighter.

    Replies: @SFG, @Dissident, @Dissident

    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani’s embarrassing scene.

    What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age? (Which, incidentally, is legal in some jurisdictions.) You think the self-righteous scolds who framed the former Mayor are above such weakness themselves? Not that I would ever condone fornication of any sort.

    [MORE]

    Except, perhaps, to a limited, qualified extent, in certain instances where the intriguingly, tantalizingly fresh, tender, not necessarily legally younger member of the coupling is the male
    (And never adultery (let alone incest*); at most fornication.)
    (“!more” tag used in absence of a “spoiler” one.)

    (*Perhaps the most depraved aspect of /ss is the prevalence of incest-themed material.)

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Dissident

    "What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age?"

    Let's be more accurate here--by a woman who was other than his wife, who he was hoping to be underage, and who was going to supply him with political information through a sexual encounter. Now, do you not find this disturbing?

    "(Which, incidentally, is legal in some jurisdictions.)"

    Not 15 or under. https://www.thesurvivoralliance.com/legal-age-consent-50-states/

    "You think the self-righteous scolds who framed the former Mayor are above such weakness themselves?"

    You mean one of Trump's close associates putting himself in an extremely precarious position. You would think Guiliani would know better, but perhaps he was inspired by Hunter Biden.

    "Not that I would ever condone fornication of any sort".

    No, you're just alluding that you may be part and parcel to it.

    "Except, perhaps, to a limited, qualified extent, in certain instances where the intriguingly, tantalizingly fresh, tender, not necessarily legally younger member of the coupling is the male…"

    Sounds like you are offering up your fantasy here.

    "I thought Richard Spencer had a good take on this..."

    LOL. He serves the purpose like Milo and Cernovich as useful idiots. The fact of the matter is that if you replace Guiliani with any liberal/Democrat, you and the others here have a field day. But since it is your own kind caught with his pants down, you will White Knight for him. It's called hypocrisy on your part.

    Replies: @Dissident

  87. @Corvinus
    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani's embarrassing scene. Of course, had this occurred by a person on his own cancel list, he would be at full throat regarding its importance so near the election. But such is the day and the life of a Gas Lighter.

    Replies: @SFG, @Dissident, @Dissident

    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani’s embarrassing scene.

    I thought Richard Spencer had a
    good take
    on this:

    This brings us to the recent scene involving Rudy Giuliani. I won’t cast judgement on Rudy, because the scene is heavily edited and the whole thing is obviously a setup.

    Maybe Rudy was just tucking in his shirt… maybe he had images of an afternoon delight with a blonde bimbo dancing through his head. I wouldn’t fault him if the latter were the case. He’s a man, after all, and we can’t expect moral perfection.

    But the whole message of the scene is something quite perverse. Heterosexual behavior is pathologized: Rudy is depicted as a creepy monster. The voice of morality comes in the form of a transexual making anal-sex jokes.

    Cohen, dressed as an out-of-control pervert, is puritanically scolding Rudy for, well, doing what red-blooded, healthy men have done since the Stone Age. That is truly perverse.

  88. @Dissident
    @Corvinus


    NOTICE no mention by Mr. Sailer regarding the content of Guiliani’s embarrassing scene.
     
    What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age? (Which, incidentally, is legal in some jurisdictions.) You think the self-righteous scolds who framed the former Mayor are above such weakness themselves? Not that I would ever condone fornication of any sort.
    Except, perhaps, to a limited, qualified extent, in certain instances where the intriguingly, tantalizingly fresh, tender, not necessarily legally younger member of the coupling is the male...
    (And never adultery (let alone incest*); at most fornication.)
    ("!more" tag used in absence of a "spoiler" one.)

    (*Perhaps the most depraved aspect of /ss is the prevalence of incest-themed material.)

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age?”

    Let’s be more accurate here–by a woman who was other than his wife, who he was hoping to be underage, and who was going to supply him with political information through a sexual encounter. Now, do you not find this disturbing?

    “(Which, incidentally, is legal in some jurisdictions.)”

    Not 15 or under. https://www.thesurvivoralliance.com/legal-age-consent-50-states/

    “You think the self-righteous scolds who framed the former Mayor are above such weakness themselves?”

    You mean one of Trump’s close associates putting himself in an extremely precarious position. You would think Guiliani would know better, but perhaps he was inspired by Hunter Biden.

    “Not that I would ever condone fornication of any sort”.

    No, you’re just alluding that you may be part and parcel to it.

    “Except, perhaps, to a limited, qualified extent, in certain instances where the intriguingly, tantalizingly fresh, tender, not necessarily legally younger member of the coupling is the male…”

    Sounds like you are offering up your fantasy here.

    “I thought Richard Spencer had a good take on this…”

    LOL. He serves the purpose like Milo and Cernovich as useful idiots. The fact of the matter is that if you replace Guiliani with any liberal/Democrat, you and the others here have a field day. But since it is your own kind caught with his pants down, you will White Knight for him. It’s called hypocrisy on your part.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @Corvinus



    What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age?
     
    Let’s be more accurate here–by a woman who was other than his wife, who he was hoping to be underage, and who was going to supply him with political information through a sexual encounter.
     
    1.) Perhaps I should begin by noting that my comments were based upon the audio of the scene that I heard via Luke Ford's podcast, and the comments he made on it. I have not seen any part of the film.

    2.) I have now read A Shot-by-Shot Analysis of the New Borat’s Giuliani Scene, an article that appears on the rabidly pro-Trump site SLATE. Let me quote the penultimate paragraph.

    There’s nothing in the film that proves Giuliani’s intentions, and there are enough places where the audio and editing could have been manipulated to make the encounter seem creepier than it actually was—I haven’t even gotten into the ominous music—that it would be unwise to draw a definitive conclusion that Giuliani was attempting to seduce Tutar. (It may be relevant to note here that the 76-year-old and his third wife divorced last year, and that he has a girlfriend.)
     
    3.) I will again commend the quote from Richard Spencer (see disclaimer below) that I posted yesterday. Now, after further examination of and reflection upon the matter, and re-reading those specific words of Spencer's, I continue to find them germane and compelling.

    3-a.) From your response to it, I doubt that you even read the quote. You certainly did not so much as even address any of its substance. Similarly, the cavalier, impertinent manner in which you indiscriminately lumped me with "the others here", and then presumed (rather rudely, it might be noted) to accuse me of hypocrisy, strongly suggests that any actual familiarity you may have with my relatively extensive commenting history here is at most highly limited and superficial. Or, alternatively, that you are simply reckless and largely uninhibited by considerations of accuracy, fairness and decency when engaging with others here. Most likely would appear to be that both are true.

    3-b.) I am no devotee or even admirer of Spencer. This may be the first time that I have quoted him here. With only occasional and rare exceptions, my only exposure to Spencer for years now has been via the excerpts of his podcast that Luke Ford plays. My reaction to most of what I hear from him has been to have been reminded of the slogan from those old United Negro College Fund commercials: A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    Sounds like you are offering up your fantasy here.
     
    Yes[1] but also alluding-to some serious ideas that I would like to see discussed. Namely, the possibility of circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good. Two such hypothetical cases I have thought of:
    1.) Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.[2]

    2.) Where the boy, if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens.

    Might we even consider recruiting women with the forbidden lusts-in-question to harness and channel them into such humanitarian endeavors toward a societal good?

    NOTES:
    [1]And if only because of how easily those words of mine lend themselves to being misconstrued in ways that would be most unfortunate, my including them was probably not terribly prudent. Since I did so, however, I beg the further indulgence of the kind reader* as I offer some critical elaboration and elucidation. (*Even when replying to a specific individual, such as in this case, when writing at a public forum such as this, I try to always bear in mind and take into due consideration the reality that my words may be read by nearly anyone.)

    As evidenced rather abundantly in countless comments of mine, I am quite fascinated with adolescent boys. I have even acknowledged that although vastly broader, deeper, more complex, and more wholesome than any mere carnal lust could ever be, there nonetheless is an undeniable erotic element to this interest. Though even it, even at its rawest, is still far more refined, restrained, and even wholesome than most would expect or assume. In this, it is my deepest fantasies that may actually prove my most compelling vindication. The difference is no less profound or fundamental than that between worship and desecration. See this past comment of mine, esp. the part after the break.

    [2] If a lack in self-confidence and self-worth, and anxiety about performing sexually with a woman are causative factors in at least some cases of homosexuality, would it not be plausible that the gentle, loving, patient, reassuring attentions of an attractive woman could help?

    Replies: @Corvinus

  89. @Corvinus
    @Dissident

    "What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age?"

    Let's be more accurate here--by a woman who was other than his wife, who he was hoping to be underage, and who was going to supply him with political information through a sexual encounter. Now, do you not find this disturbing?

    "(Which, incidentally, is legal in some jurisdictions.)"

    Not 15 or under. https://www.thesurvivoralliance.com/legal-age-consent-50-states/

    "You think the self-righteous scolds who framed the former Mayor are above such weakness themselves?"

    You mean one of Trump's close associates putting himself in an extremely precarious position. You would think Guiliani would know better, but perhaps he was inspired by Hunter Biden.

    "Not that I would ever condone fornication of any sort".

    No, you're just alluding that you may be part and parcel to it.

    "Except, perhaps, to a limited, qualified extent, in certain instances where the intriguingly, tantalizingly fresh, tender, not necessarily legally younger member of the coupling is the male…"

    Sounds like you are offering up your fantasy here.

    "I thought Richard Spencer had a good take on this..."

    LOL. He serves the purpose like Milo and Cernovich as useful idiots. The fact of the matter is that if you replace Guiliani with any liberal/Democrat, you and the others here have a field day. But since it is your own kind caught with his pants down, you will White Knight for him. It's called hypocrisy on your part.

    Replies: @Dissident

    What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age?

    Let’s be more accurate here–by a woman who was other than his wife, who he was hoping to be underage, and who was going to supply him with political information through a sexual encounter.

    1.) Perhaps I should begin by noting that my comments were based upon the audio of the scene that I heard via Luke Ford’s podcast, and the comments he made on it. I have not seen any part of the film.

    2.) I have now read A Shot-by-Shot Analysis of the New Borat’s Giuliani Scene, an article that appears on the rabidly pro-Trump site SLATE. Let me quote the penultimate paragraph.

    There’s nothing in the film that proves Giuliani’s intentions, and there are enough places where the audio and editing could have been manipulated to make the encounter seem creepier than it actually was—I haven’t even gotten into the ominous music—that it would be unwise to draw a definitive conclusion that Giuliani was attempting to seduce Tutar. (It may be relevant to note here that the 76-year-old and his third wife divorced last year, and that he has a girlfriend.)

    3.) I will again commend the quote from Richard Spencer (see disclaimer below) that I posted yesterday. Now, after further examination of and reflection upon the matter, and re-reading those specific words of Spencer’s, I continue to find them germane and compelling.

    3-a.) From your response to it, I doubt that you even read the quote. You certainly did not so much as even address any of its substance.

    [MORE]
    Similarly, the cavalier, impertinent manner in which you indiscriminately lumped me with “the others here”, and then presumed (rather rudely, it might be noted) to accuse me of hypocrisy, strongly suggests that any actual familiarity you may have with my relatively extensive commenting history here is at most highly limited and superficial. Or, alternatively, that you are simply reckless and largely uninhibited by considerations of accuracy, fairness and decency when engaging with others here. Most likely would appear to be that both are true.

    3-b.) I am no devotee or even admirer of Spencer. This may be the first time that I have quoted him here. With only occasional and rare exceptions, my only exposure to Spencer for years now has been via the excerpts of his podcast that Luke Ford plays. My reaction to most of what I hear from him has been to have been reminded of the slogan from those old United Negro College Fund commercials: A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    Sounds like you are offering up your fantasy here.

    Yes[1] but also alluding-to some serious ideas that I would like to see discussed. Namely, the possibility of circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good. Two such hypothetical cases I have thought of:
    1.) Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.[2]

    2.) Where the boy, if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens.

    Might we even consider recruiting women with the forbidden lusts-in-question to harness and channel them into such humanitarian endeavors toward a societal good?

    NOTES:
    [1]And if only because of how easily those words of mine lend themselves to being misconstrued in ways that would be most unfortunate, my including them was probably not terribly prudent. Since I did so, however, I beg the further indulgence of the kind reader* as I offer some critical elaboration and elucidation. (*Even when replying to a specific individual, such as in this case, when writing at a public forum such as this, I try to always bear in mind and take into due consideration the reality that my words may be read by nearly anyone.)

    As evidenced rather abundantly in countless comments of mine, I am quite fascinated with adolescent boys. I have even acknowledged that although vastly broader, deeper, more complex, and more wholesome than any mere carnal lust could ever be, there nonetheless is an undeniable erotic element to this interest. Though even it, even at its rawest, is still far more refined, restrained, and even wholesome than most would expect or assume. In this, it is my deepest fantasies that may actually prove my most compelling vindication. The difference is no less profound or fundamental than that between worship and desecration. See this past comment of mine, esp. the part after the break.

    [2] If a lack in self-confidence and self-worth, and anxiety about performing sexually with a woman are causative factors in at least some cases of homosexuality, would it not be plausible that the gentle, loving, patient, reassuring attentions of an attractive woman could help?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Dissident

    Interesting that you quote Slate, a liberal "rag", at least in the eyes of some posters here. Now, I was under the impression that such material was automatically deemed as "Fake News", yet you are employing it as part of your argument. Odd, to say the least, given how the MSM repeatedly lies, right?

    Indeed, we cannot draw a "definitive conclusion", but we can certainly make a reasonable case that Giuliani, acting in an inappropriate way, underscores a willingness to engage in behavior that is potentially compromising.

    "I will again commend the quote from Richard Spencer..."

    Right, the old "boys will be boys" routine. Except I thought Guiliani, as a God-fearing Republican, is our moral better when it comes to refraining from such dalliances.

    "Or, alternatively, that you are simply reckless and largely uninhibited by considerations of accuracy, fairness and decency when engaging with others here."

    To the contrary, I seek nothing but those things.

    "Namely, the possibility of circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good. Two such hypothetical cases I have thought of:
    1.) Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.[2]

    2.) Where the boy, if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens."

    They are other than defensible. In case #1, that is not her proper place; rather, it is up to the parents to put him on the "right path". Did she in your puerile situation even ask the father or mother for permission? In case #2, a teen boy and girl 15 or under having coitus, especially if one or both are Christian, is risible in the eyes of the Lord.

    "Might we even consider recruiting women with the forbidden lusts-in-question to harness and channel them into such humanitarian endeavors toward a societal good?"

    No, since you assuming in a perverse way that each circumstance is a "societal good".

    Replies: @Dissident

  90. @Not Only Wrathful
    I find this article, with its extreme and ugly hypocrisy, to be almost entirely repulsive.

    I appreciate the bit where he all but admits to never seeing his own face though. That is remarkably apt.

    Replies: @Svigor

    “I appreciate the bit where he all but admits to never seeing his own face though. That is remarkably apt.”

    Indeed. His tribe has done that collectively for 3k years.

    • Replies: @Not Only Wrathful
    @Svigor

    Yawn

  91. @Dissident
    @Corvinus



    What, he allowed himself to be enticed by a voluptuous female who was later purportedly revealed to be fifteen-years-of-age?
     
    Let’s be more accurate here–by a woman who was other than his wife, who he was hoping to be underage, and who was going to supply him with political information through a sexual encounter.
     
    1.) Perhaps I should begin by noting that my comments were based upon the audio of the scene that I heard via Luke Ford's podcast, and the comments he made on it. I have not seen any part of the film.

    2.) I have now read A Shot-by-Shot Analysis of the New Borat’s Giuliani Scene, an article that appears on the rabidly pro-Trump site SLATE. Let me quote the penultimate paragraph.

    There’s nothing in the film that proves Giuliani’s intentions, and there are enough places where the audio and editing could have been manipulated to make the encounter seem creepier than it actually was—I haven’t even gotten into the ominous music—that it would be unwise to draw a definitive conclusion that Giuliani was attempting to seduce Tutar. (It may be relevant to note here that the 76-year-old and his third wife divorced last year, and that he has a girlfriend.)
     
    3.) I will again commend the quote from Richard Spencer (see disclaimer below) that I posted yesterday. Now, after further examination of and reflection upon the matter, and re-reading those specific words of Spencer's, I continue to find them germane and compelling.

    3-a.) From your response to it, I doubt that you even read the quote. You certainly did not so much as even address any of its substance. Similarly, the cavalier, impertinent manner in which you indiscriminately lumped me with "the others here", and then presumed (rather rudely, it might be noted) to accuse me of hypocrisy, strongly suggests that any actual familiarity you may have with my relatively extensive commenting history here is at most highly limited and superficial. Or, alternatively, that you are simply reckless and largely uninhibited by considerations of accuracy, fairness and decency when engaging with others here. Most likely would appear to be that both are true.

    3-b.) I am no devotee or even admirer of Spencer. This may be the first time that I have quoted him here. With only occasional and rare exceptions, my only exposure to Spencer for years now has been via the excerpts of his podcast that Luke Ford plays. My reaction to most of what I hear from him has been to have been reminded of the slogan from those old United Negro College Fund commercials: A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    Sounds like you are offering up your fantasy here.
     
    Yes[1] but also alluding-to some serious ideas that I would like to see discussed. Namely, the possibility of circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good. Two such hypothetical cases I have thought of:
    1.) Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.[2]

    2.) Where the boy, if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens.

    Might we even consider recruiting women with the forbidden lusts-in-question to harness and channel them into such humanitarian endeavors toward a societal good?

    NOTES:
    [1]And if only because of how easily those words of mine lend themselves to being misconstrued in ways that would be most unfortunate, my including them was probably not terribly prudent. Since I did so, however, I beg the further indulgence of the kind reader* as I offer some critical elaboration and elucidation. (*Even when replying to a specific individual, such as in this case, when writing at a public forum such as this, I try to always bear in mind and take into due consideration the reality that my words may be read by nearly anyone.)

    As evidenced rather abundantly in countless comments of mine, I am quite fascinated with adolescent boys. I have even acknowledged that although vastly broader, deeper, more complex, and more wholesome than any mere carnal lust could ever be, there nonetheless is an undeniable erotic element to this interest. Though even it, even at its rawest, is still far more refined, restrained, and even wholesome than most would expect or assume. In this, it is my deepest fantasies that may actually prove my most compelling vindication. The difference is no less profound or fundamental than that between worship and desecration. See this past comment of mine, esp. the part after the break.

    [2] If a lack in self-confidence and self-worth, and anxiety about performing sexually with a woman are causative factors in at least some cases of homosexuality, would it not be plausible that the gentle, loving, patient, reassuring attentions of an attractive woman could help?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Interesting that you quote Slate, a liberal “rag”, at least in the eyes of some posters here. Now, I was under the impression that such material was automatically deemed as “Fake News”, yet you are employing it as part of your argument. Odd, to say the least, given how the MSM repeatedly lies, right?

    Indeed, we cannot draw a “definitive conclusion”, but we can certainly make a reasonable case that Giuliani, acting in an inappropriate way, underscores a willingness to engage in behavior that is potentially compromising.

    “I will again commend the quote from Richard Spencer…”

    Right, the old “boys will be boys” routine. Except I thought Guiliani, as a God-fearing Republican, is our moral better when it comes to refraining from such dalliances.

    “Or, alternatively, that you are simply reckless and largely uninhibited by considerations of accuracy, fairness and decency when engaging with others here.”

    To the contrary, I seek nothing but those things.

    “Namely, the possibility of circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good. Two such hypothetical cases I have thought of:
    1.) Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.[2]

    2.) Where the boy, if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens.”

    They are other than defensible. In case #1, that is not her proper place; rather, it is up to the parents to put him on the “right path”. Did she in your puerile situation even ask the father or mother for permission? In case #2, a teen boy and girl 15 or under having coitus, especially if one or both are Christian, is risible in the eyes of the Lord.

    “Might we even consider recruiting women with the forbidden lusts-in-question to harness and channel them into such humanitarian endeavors toward a societal good?”

    No, since you assuming in a perverse way that each circumstance is a “societal good”.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    @Corvinus


    Right, the old “boys will be boys” routine.
     
    Again, you completely ignore what is an absolutely critical component of Spencer's point. Here's the final part of the quote I had posted, with emphasis I added via boldface and italics:

    But the whole message of the scene is something quite perverse. Heterosexual behavior is pathologized: Rudy is depicted as a creepy monster. The voice of morality comes in the form of a transexual making anal-sex jokes.

    Cohen, dressed as an out-of-control pervert, is puritanically scolding Rudy for, well, doing what red-blooded, healthy men have done since the Stone Age. That is truly perverse.
     

    Back to quoting Corvinus:

    Except I thought Guiliani, as a God-fearing Republican, is our moral better when it comes to refraining from such dalliances.
     
    Who has suggested any such thing? Certainly not I. Nor Spencer. And not Luke Ford either. Not even remotely close.

    Perhaps there are some who have suggested that Rudolph Giuliani should be considered above reproach. Perhaps even among the iSteve commentariat. What relevance would that have here, to my comment?

    ~ ~ ~
    Returning to the minefield I admittedly stepped-into with the gratuitous, completely tangential, prurient* comment I included in my initial reply to Corvinus...

    (*Incidentally, I suspect that this, i.e., prurient, may have been the word you meant to write where you wrote puerile.)

    I had offered two hypothetical cases of possible


    circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good.
     
    The first of these was

    Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.
     
    Corvinus responded,

    In case #1, that is not her proper place; rather, it is up to the parents to put him on the “right path”.
     
    Even if that would always technically be possible (which it almost certainly would not; not always, at least), it certainly would not always be viable or realistic. I do not know how realistic, likely or even possible what I suggested would be either and did not suggest that I did. I quite clearly stipulated that it may work in some cases, and was worth discussion. The problem is that any such discussion is not permitted under the present climate; honest inquiry cannot be permitted if it might lead to answers that invalidate or threaten doctrinal Truth. It's the same with the question of reperative therapy.

    In case #2, a teen boy and girl 15 or under having coitus, especially if one or both are Christian, is risible in the eyes of the Lord.
     
    No, my second hypothetical case was of a woman with an adolescent boy who, "if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens." Given that alternative, the carnal intimacy between the boy and a mature woman who was no longer a maiden could be considered a lesser evil.

    At any rate, I don't think risible is the word you intended to use there. If you did, then you might want to check its definition.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  92. @Svigor
    @Not Only Wrathful

    "I appreciate the bit where he all but admits to never seeing his own face though. That is remarkably apt."

    Indeed. His tribe has done that collectively for 3k years.

    Replies: @Not Only Wrathful

    Yawn

  93. @Corvinus
    @Dissident

    Interesting that you quote Slate, a liberal "rag", at least in the eyes of some posters here. Now, I was under the impression that such material was automatically deemed as "Fake News", yet you are employing it as part of your argument. Odd, to say the least, given how the MSM repeatedly lies, right?

    Indeed, we cannot draw a "definitive conclusion", but we can certainly make a reasonable case that Giuliani, acting in an inappropriate way, underscores a willingness to engage in behavior that is potentially compromising.

    "I will again commend the quote from Richard Spencer..."

    Right, the old "boys will be boys" routine. Except I thought Guiliani, as a God-fearing Republican, is our moral better when it comes to refraining from such dalliances.

    "Or, alternatively, that you are simply reckless and largely uninhibited by considerations of accuracy, fairness and decency when engaging with others here."

    To the contrary, I seek nothing but those things.

    "Namely, the possibility of circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good. Two such hypothetical cases I have thought of:
    1.) Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.[2]

    2.) Where the boy, if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens."

    They are other than defensible. In case #1, that is not her proper place; rather, it is up to the parents to put him on the "right path". Did she in your puerile situation even ask the father or mother for permission? In case #2, a teen boy and girl 15 or under having coitus, especially if one or both are Christian, is risible in the eyes of the Lord.

    "Might we even consider recruiting women with the forbidden lusts-in-question to harness and channel them into such humanitarian endeavors toward a societal good?"

    No, since you assuming in a perverse way that each circumstance is a "societal good".

    Replies: @Dissident

    Right, the old “boys will be boys” routine.

    Again, you completely ignore what is an absolutely critical component of Spencer’s point. Here’s the final part of the quote I had posted, with emphasis I added via boldface and italics:

    But the whole message of the scene is something quite perverse. Heterosexual behavior is pathologized: Rudy is depicted as a creepy monster. The voice of morality comes in the form of a transexual making anal-sex jokes.

    Cohen, dressed as an out-of-control pervert, is puritanically scolding Rudy for, well, doing what red-blooded, healthy men have done since the Stone Age. That is truly perverse.

    Back to quoting Corvinus:

    Except I thought Guiliani, as a God-fearing Republican, is our moral better when it comes to refraining from such dalliances.

    Who has suggested any such thing? Certainly not I. Nor Spencer. And not Luke Ford either. Not even remotely close.

    Perhaps there are some who have suggested that Rudolph Giuliani should be considered above reproach. Perhaps even among the iSteve commentariat. What relevance would that have here, to my comment?

    ~ ~ ~
    Returning to the minefield I admittedly stepped-into with the gratuitous, completely tangential, prurient* comment I included in my initial reply to Corvinus…

    (*Incidentally, I suspect that this, i.e., prurient, may have been the word you meant to write where you wrote puerile.)

    [MORE]

    I had offered two hypothetical cases of possible

    circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good.

    The first of these was

    Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.

    Corvinus responded,

    In case #1, that is not her proper place; rather, it is up to the parents to put him on the “right path”.

    Even if that would always technically be possible (which it almost certainly would not; not always, at least), it certainly would not always be viable or realistic. I do not know how realistic, likely or even possible what I suggested would be either and did not suggest that I did. I quite clearly stipulated that it may work in some cases, and was worth discussion. The problem is that any such discussion is not permitted under the present climate; honest inquiry cannot be permitted if it might lead to answers that invalidate or threaten doctrinal Truth. It’s the same with the question of reperative therapy.

    In case #2, a teen boy and girl 15 or under having coitus, especially if one or both are Christian, is risible in the eyes of the Lord.

    No, my second hypothetical case was of a woman with an adolescent boy who, “if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens.” Given that alternative, the carnal intimacy between the boy and a mature woman who was no longer a maiden could be considered a lesser evil.

    At any rate, I don’t think risible is the word you intended to use there. If you did, then you might want to check its definition.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Dissident

    "Again, you completely ignore what is an absolutely critical component of Spencer’s point."

    To the contrary, I addressed in the manner that it required to be addressed. Indeed, red-blooded, healthy men seek to procure sex from women. The immorality stems not from Cohen's behavior, but from Guiliani, who allows himself to be put in an uncompromising position.

    "What relevance would that have here, to my comment?"

    God-fearing Republicans generally claim they are able to control their sexual desires compared to other groups. Clearly, Guiliani's behavior and past conduct demonstrates otherwise.

    "(*Incidentally, I suspect that this, i.e., prurient, may have been the word you meant to write where you wrote puerile.)"

    No, I purposely used the word puerile for a reason.

    "I quite clearly stipulated that it may work in some cases, and was worth discussion".

    Except it does NOT work in the two situations you offer.

    "The problem is that any such discussion is not permitted under the present climate; honest inquiry..."

    Present or past climate. I do appreciate your honest, however puerile your intentions in promoting an immoral act.

    "No, my second hypothetical case was of a woman..."

    OK. Regardless, there is no "lesser evil" here, just evil, for an older women to take sexual advantage of an underage boy.

    "At any rate, I don’t think risible is the word you intended to use there."

    Indeed, it was the word. Your second case provoked laughter, as it was obscenely absurd.

  94. @Dissident
    @Corvinus


    Right, the old “boys will be boys” routine.
     
    Again, you completely ignore what is an absolutely critical component of Spencer's point. Here's the final part of the quote I had posted, with emphasis I added via boldface and italics:

    But the whole message of the scene is something quite perverse. Heterosexual behavior is pathologized: Rudy is depicted as a creepy monster. The voice of morality comes in the form of a transexual making anal-sex jokes.

    Cohen, dressed as an out-of-control pervert, is puritanically scolding Rudy for, well, doing what red-blooded, healthy men have done since the Stone Age. That is truly perverse.
     

    Back to quoting Corvinus:

    Except I thought Guiliani, as a God-fearing Republican, is our moral better when it comes to refraining from such dalliances.
     
    Who has suggested any such thing? Certainly not I. Nor Spencer. And not Luke Ford either. Not even remotely close.

    Perhaps there are some who have suggested that Rudolph Giuliani should be considered above reproach. Perhaps even among the iSteve commentariat. What relevance would that have here, to my comment?

    ~ ~ ~
    Returning to the minefield I admittedly stepped-into with the gratuitous, completely tangential, prurient* comment I included in my initial reply to Corvinus...

    (*Incidentally, I suspect that this, i.e., prurient, may have been the word you meant to write where you wrote puerile.)

    I had offered two hypothetical cases of possible


    circumstances and qualifications under which sexual intimacy between a woman and an adolescent boy may be legitimately defensible, or even accomplish a societal good.
     
    The first of these was

    Where the woman would lovingly be attempting to steer a confused or homosexually-inclined adolescent boy toward a healthy heterosexuality.
     
    Corvinus responded,

    In case #1, that is not her proper place; rather, it is up to the parents to put him on the “right path”.
     
    Even if that would always technically be possible (which it almost certainly would not; not always, at least), it certainly would not always be viable or realistic. I do not know how realistic, likely or even possible what I suggested would be either and did not suggest that I did. I quite clearly stipulated that it may work in some cases, and was worth discussion. The problem is that any such discussion is not permitted under the present climate; honest inquiry cannot be permitted if it might lead to answers that invalidate or threaten doctrinal Truth. It's the same with the question of reperative therapy.

    In case #2, a teen boy and girl 15 or under having coitus, especially if one or both are Christian, is risible in the eyes of the Lord.
     
    No, my second hypothetical case was of a woman with an adolescent boy who, "if not engaged with the woman, would be defiling one or more still-pristine maidens." Given that alternative, the carnal intimacy between the boy and a mature woman who was no longer a maiden could be considered a lesser evil.

    At any rate, I don't think risible is the word you intended to use there. If you did, then you might want to check its definition.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Again, you completely ignore what is an absolutely critical component of Spencer’s point.”

    To the contrary, I addressed in the manner that it required to be addressed. Indeed, red-blooded, healthy men seek to procure sex from women. The immorality stems not from Cohen’s behavior, but from Guiliani, who allows himself to be put in an uncompromising position.

    “What relevance would that have here, to my comment?”

    God-fearing Republicans generally claim they are able to control their sexual desires compared to other groups. Clearly, Guiliani’s behavior and past conduct demonstrates otherwise.

    “(*Incidentally, I suspect that this, i.e., prurient, may have been the word you meant to write where you wrote puerile.)”

    No, I purposely used the word puerile for a reason.

    “I quite clearly stipulated that it may work in some cases, and was worth discussion”.

    Except it does NOT work in the two situations you offer.

    “The problem is that any such discussion is not permitted under the present climate; honest inquiry…”

    Present or past climate. I do appreciate your honest, however puerile your intentions in promoting an immoral act.

    “No, my second hypothetical case was of a woman…”

    OK. Regardless, there is no “lesser evil” here, just evil, for an older women to take sexual advantage of an underage boy.

    “At any rate, I don’t think risible is the word you intended to use there.”

    Indeed, it was the word. Your second case provoked laughter, as it was obscenely absurd.

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