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In Italy, Practically Nobody Who Takes Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis Got CV
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Hydroxychloroquine hasn’t worked well in studies for people on death’s doorstep from coronavirus, but most of the optimism about this old drug instead has always been about its potential in earlier phases. From Il Tempo via Google Translate:

Coronavirus, revealed how it works: that’s why hydroxychloroquine could work
by Peter D’Angelo

APRIL 28, 2020

… What this mechanism consists of is immediately said: the drug by binding permanently with ferriprotoporphyrin (of the Eme group of Hb) removes the substrate from viral proteins and also becomes an important means of prophylaxis. Although there are still no Italian publications on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a “shield” from the virus, among the directors of the infectious disease wards, the specialists, Primaries and general practitioners contacted during this research, many admitted – under a whisper – to use the drug as a “prophylaxis”, that is, to prevent infection. Healthcare professionals who are in close contact with contagious patients take the drug in advance, precisely to decrease the probability of contracting the infection. For now, in support of this “prophylaxis” effect, there is a recent publication, involving 211 people. It was published on the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, the official body of the International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy. Of 211 people exposed to Covid positive 19 and undergoing hydroxychloroquine prophylaxis, none were infected.

Finally, further confirmation of this hypothesis is the data collected in the register of the SIR (Italian rheumatology society). To assess the possible correlations between chronic patients and Covid19, SIR interrogated 1,200 rheumatologists throughout Italy to collect statistics on infections. Out of an audience of 65,000 chronic patients (Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis), who systematically take Plaquenil / hydroxychloroquine, only 20 patients tested positive for the virus. Nobody died, nobody is in intensive care, according to the data collected so far.

A commenter suggests a clever counter-explanation: rather than hydroxychloroquine protecting CV sufferers from these two autoimmune disorders, maybe long-term hydroxychloroquine-takers are actually being protected from CV by their autoimmune disorders?

Theoretically, this question about to be answerable in about 48 hours from datamining big patient databases, since not all lupus or RA patients take hydroxychloroquine.

 
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  1. But…but… Trump is BAD! Don’t you see? Why are you DOING this?!

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
  2. In Italy, Practically Nobody Who Takes Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis Got CV

    Duh.

    • Replies: @Anonymous


    In Italy, Practically Nobody Who Takes Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis Got CV
     
    Duh.
     
    Why is that result a “Duh”?
  3. A gin and tonic a day keeps the kung flu away.

    • Replies: @newrouter
    and have a smoke too. "pc health" for 50 years hurting.
    , @another fred
    Just try to find tonic on the shelves. It's been gone for a couple of weeks down here.
    , @MBlanc46
    Make it a double.
  4. smoke ’em if you got them: gilroy was here lol

    France finds smoking may help you RESIST Covid-19…

    https://www.rt.com/news/486605-french-study-nicotine-resist-coronavirus/

    • Replies: @Anon7
    "...strongly suggest that daily smokers have a much lower probability of developing a symptomatic or serious infection with Sars-CoV-2 compared to the general population."

    This cracks me up. My 90 year-old mom watches TV all day in her own apartment and smokes a pack a day. She is DNR, and couldn't give two hoots about "the virus".

    , @Travis
    Nicotine shows incredible promise in the fight against the Wuhan coronavirus as both a preventive and curative remedy. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Smokers are 'four times less likely' to contract Covid-19, prompting nicotine patch trials on patients in France. The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack.
    https://www.qeios.com/read/WPP19W.2

    Review of 28 studies shows number of smokers among hospitalised patients is 'lower than expected. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264635/More-proof-smokers-risk-catching-coronavirus-expert-admits-weird.html

  5. So it’s like Truvada but for handshaking rather than sodomy.

    Can you take both? Asking for a friend.

  6. Chris Martenson from Peak Prosperity has noticed a couple odd things about many recent studies of Hydroxychloroquine:
    1) They are done after patient is very sick.
    2) They often exclude zinc, even though that is an important part. Sometimes they include Azithromycin and yet somehow forget the zinc.

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.

    Chris Martenson has good daily updates of about 40 minutes long:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos

    • Agree: Manfred Arcane
    • Replies: @Anon

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.
     
    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    It’s almost like they want it to fail.

     

    Absolutely they do. Symptoms of TDS include loss of critical thinking skills and sudden outbursts of incoherent noise. If I hear about that fish tank lady one more time . . . .

    Out of an audience of 65,000 chronic patients (Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis), who systematically take Plaquenil / hydroxychloroquine, only 20 patients tested positive for the virus. Nobody died, nobody is in intensive care, according to the data collected so far.
     
    So basically Trump "discovered" the de facto vaccine. This will not go over well at the New York Times, which basically got Democrat governors to ban the life-saving drug. I wonder how they can deal with this level of cognitive dissonance.
    , @Travis
    one reason they have attacked the use of Hydroxychloroquine is due to the shortages. We do not have an adequate supply to treat all coronavirus positive Americans. Doctors and hospitals have hoarded it all for themselves and their family members,

    famotidine is another drug which shows promise. A clinical trial is under way at major New York hospitals to test this heartburn medication. The researchers initially wanted to test famotidine on its own, but with so many patients now being treated with hydroxychloroquine, they wouldn’t have had enough test subjects. Time to stock up on Pepsid AC which is the over the counter medicine containing famotidine

    clearly the doctors in NY see value with Hydroxychloroquine , since all hospital patients are taking this drug to fight CV. If it was really dangerous why would all the hospitals be giving this drug to CV patients ? https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/new-york-clinical-trial-quietly-tests-heartburn-remedy-against-coronavirus
    , @Mr. Anon

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.
     
    They want everything to fail and to maximize the misery so that people accept permanent "contact tracing" (i.e. universal intrusive surveilance) and a vaccine along with a "vaccine passport".

    Watch Deborah Birx interviewed here on CNN. The interesting part begins at 1:00 with Sanjay Gupta's question and Birx's answer (including Freudian slip):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_E1HzTnJsA

    Birx is a board member of The Global Fund - a Gates Foundation funded NGO.
  7. “In Post-COVID Italy, Hydroxychloroquine prevents you!”

  8. @Polynikes
    A gin and tonic a day keeps the kung flu away.

    and have a smoke too. “pc health” for 50 years hurting.

  9. Hydroxychloroquine has become as toxic (pun intended) as Zyklon B after Adolf Drumpf touted it.

    • Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    Thankfully most doctors have ignored the scare stories about HCQ and are treating COVID19 with HCQ. And many hospital workers are dosing with HCQ to prevent infection. Even media scoundrels like Chris Cuomo took quinine to treat themselves when they contracted the Wahu Flu.

    If Trump had banned HCQ , like the democratic governors , the outrage would have been far worse and they would have attacked Trump for ignoring the science. Trump cannot win with the media. If he told people to get some sun to obtain vitamin D they would attack him for promoting skin cancer.
  10. OK. But you need the correct dosage and the correct segment of the population. Maybe just loosen the supply constraints and let people decide for themselves. Meat packers?

  11. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve:

    Written here about this before. What about people with Lupus or Rheumatoid not on Hydrochloroquine? Could the overactive immune system of people generally suffering from some Autoimmune Diseases be providing the prophylaxis and not the hydrochloroquine?

    I have a Rheumatic Autoimmune Disease called Anklosing Spondylitis (AS) that went active 3-4 years ago. Swear I haven’t had a cold or flu since the major flares have occurred. Avoiding most Biologics i.e. Humira for the time period. Immune system is complex, but could it be the overactive immune response attacking the body also repels viruses?

    The HLA-B27 allelle that denotes suceptibility to some Rheumatic disease such as AS seems to protect prophylactically from a few viruses at some level, including HIV non-progression to AIDS, Hepatitis C protection, other viruses possibly.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3240147/

    https://spondylitis.org/research-new/covid-19-and-spondyloarthritis-your-questions-answered/

    “However, be mindful of something else: People who are HLA-B27 positive demonstrate increased natural immunity toward a number of viral infections, such as HIV-1, hepatitis C and influenza, although whether this natural immunity carries over to coronavirus has not been studied.”

    • Replies: @vhrm
    It's a good question. Along the same lines i recently heard that people with seasonal allergies have something like 1/3rd less chance of cancer overall. Apparently it's been known for years but it was new to me.

    So a hyperactive immune system may have a silver lining. Something like that could definitely be a confounding factor in Covid-19 where it's already known that some significant fraction of the infected don't even have symptoms.
    , @JosephB
    I concur with the overactive immune system being protective. After several years of bad arthritis I tried a biologic. A few days later I was confused as everything felt "off." After a bit I remembered that's what it's like to be sick. So I'll buy the overactive immune system is protective explanation.

    But I'm hearing a lot of the damage is from an overactive immune system. Could HDC be a bad idea in general, but could at preventing the cytokine storm?
    , @res
    Good comment. And well worth reading because your additional statements go far beyond Steve's excerpt. I find your elaboration convincing enough that I think we (as a society) should make an effort to find out. While remembering it is possible both explanations are true to some degree (i.e. hydroxychloroquine may help even if you are right).

    Consider the possibilities of having knowledge of which HLA profiles (or other genetic characteristics, like sickle cell trait and malaria) are positive or negative for a given epidemic disease. This would allow us to more intelligently decide which people should be protected from it and which people can safely fill high risk occupations (e.g. dentist in general, doctor treating patients with the disease) during the epidemic.

    An important additional question is whether the people who are genetically relatively safe from a disease do become infected enough to transmit it.

    P.S. Steve, would it be possible for you to add direct links to comments you excerpt and reference as a general practice? It's usually not that hard to find them, but the links could be helpful (especially if the comments were under another post of yours).
  12. Anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @ziggurat
    Chris Martenson from Peak Prosperity has noticed a couple odd things about many recent studies of Hydroxychloroquine:
    1) They are done after patient is very sick.
    2) They often exclude zinc, even though that is an important part. Sometimes they include Azithromycin and yet somehow forget the zinc.

    It's almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.

    Chris Martenson has good daily updates of about 40 minutes long:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.

    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.

    • Replies: @ziggurat

    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.
     
    I never knew that.

    It's funny how he really describes it like a virus:

    The country is in the throes of a major epidemic, with no known cure and some pretty scary symptoms. It’s called Trump Derangement Syndrome, or TDS, and it’s rapidly spreading from the point of origin – the political class – to the population at large.
    Dec. 27, 2016
     
    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-raimondo-trump-derangement-syndrome-20161226-story.html

    “I have known Justin Raimondo since we stood together to oppose the rush to war against Iraq in 1991,” Buchanan said in an email. “In the three decades since, no man in America worked harder or did more to resist the interventionist impulses of the American establishment and the wars they produced than Justin and his Antiwar website.”
     
    https://buchanan.org/blog/in-memoriam-justin-raimondo-1951-2019-137227#more-137227
    , @northeast
    I had no idea Justin passed. The guy was politically eclectic, to say the least. RIP.
    , @Sam Malone
    I don't know why he would get credit for that. "Bush Derangement Syndrome" was a very, very common phrase deployed during the contentious George W. years to describe and mock liberal fury at the man and his wars, and later "Obama Derangement Syndrome" was occasionally thrown back at right wing critics. So "Trump Derangement Syndrome" was an inevitable and very apt modification that anyone could have logically made.

    But yes, Justin was an impressive guy for many other reasons.

  13. This article says that the dataset was nationwide. It does not say whether the ages of the Lupus and RA patients ran the gamut from 18 to 80, but assuming a truly random and broad dataset, then, but for some ‘intervening reason’, one would have expected 4,500 to 12,500 infections and approx. 75 to 180 deaths. The odds of there being an ‘intervening reason’ other than Hydroxy that so drastically reduced the numbers of infections, with deaths of zero, are very small. The burden would be falsify the results by finding some explanation of a common thread other than Hydroxy. There may be such an explanation, but for now, it’s not out there.
    OTOH, this only supports the hypothesis that Plaquenil only works either a) taken as a prophylactic or b) taken within a day or two at most of becoming infected with Covid. It does not work anything like as well if you are far gone. Any immunologist out there who can comment on mass scale antibody plasma? Is that feasible?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    OTOH, this only supports the hypothesis that Plaquenil only works either a) taken as a prophylactic or b) taken within a day or two at most of becoming infected with Covid.
     
    Yeah, but that's as good or better than a vaccine. No?
  14. @ziggurat
    Chris Martenson from Peak Prosperity has noticed a couple odd things about many recent studies of Hydroxychloroquine:
    1) They are done after patient is very sick.
    2) They often exclude zinc, even though that is an important part. Sometimes they include Azithromycin and yet somehow forget the zinc.

    It's almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.

    Chris Martenson has good daily updates of about 40 minutes long:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos

    It’s almost like they want it to fail.

    Absolutely they do. Symptoms of TDS include loss of critical thinking skills and sudden outbursts of incoherent noise. If I hear about that fish tank lady one more time . . . .

    Out of an audience of 65,000 chronic patients (Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis), who systematically take Plaquenil / hydroxychloroquine, only 20 patients tested positive for the virus. Nobody died, nobody is in intensive care, according to the data collected so far.

    So basically Trump “discovered” the de facto vaccine. This will not go over well at the New York Times, which basically got Democrat governors to ban the life-saving drug. I wonder how they can deal with this level of cognitive dissonance.

    • Agree: Travis, ziggurat, jim jones
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    They're going to deal with their cognitive dissonance the way they always do. By being even worse than Trump about denying they said something different in the past.
  15. What if it isn’t the hydroxychloroquine, but the autoimmune disease it’s treating? People with asthma are underrepresented, too. As are women, who have a lot more autoimmune disorders.

    It isn’t for no reason that so many people have autoimmune issues.

    I bet you older guys on ‘roids are getting hit harder, because testosterone suppresses immune response. Probably why Chris Cuomo got so sick.

    I also bet people with well-exercised immune systems, such as parents of young children, elementary school teachers and nurses are underrepresented among the seriously ill.

    • Thanks: Lot
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    Your epidemiological sleuthing reminds me of The Andromeda Strain, in which the only survivors of a deadly alien virus outbreak are a colicky baby and an old alcoholic guy. It turns out the virus only survives in a specific PH range, and the baby's hyperventilation and the old guy's alcohol blood level both caused acidosis that took them out that range and killed the virus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw-k50EIGyM

    That was great movie. I miss Michael Crichton.
  16. Anonymous[297] • Disclaimer says:

    I always look back with fond memories on my times of prophylactic use. Those were the days.

    • LOL: Cortes
  17. @Semperluctor
    This article says that the dataset was nationwide. It does not say whether the ages of the Lupus and RA patients ran the gamut from 18 to 80, but assuming a truly random and broad dataset, then, but for some ‘intervening reason’, one would have expected 4,500 to 12,500 infections and approx. 75 to 180 deaths. The odds of there being an ‘intervening reason’ other than Hydroxy that so drastically reduced the numbers of infections, with deaths of zero, are very small. The burden would be falsify the results by finding some explanation of a common thread other than Hydroxy. There may be such an explanation, but for now, it’s not out there.
    OTOH, this only supports the hypothesis that Plaquenil only works either a) taken as a prophylactic or b) taken within a day or two at most of becoming infected with Covid. It does not work anything like as well if you are far gone. Any immunologist out there who can comment on mass scale antibody plasma? Is that feasible?

    OTOH, this only supports the hypothesis that Plaquenil only works either a) taken as a prophylactic or b) taken within a day or two at most of becoming infected with Covid.

    Yeah, but that’s as good or better than a vaccine. No?

    • Replies: @Semperluctor
    Yes!
    An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure!
    I bet, when bios are written in 20 years’ time, that it will be revealed that many of today’s elites were taking some. I took a treatment course 45 years ago when about to travel to parts of the world where malaria was an issue. No side effects that I can remember. But I was young and healthy, so maybe that played a role.
  18. @newrouter
    smoke 'em if you got them: gilroy was here lol

    France finds smoking may help you RESIST Covid-19...

    https://www.rt.com/news/486605-french-study-nicotine-resist-coronavirus/

    “…strongly suggest that daily smokers have a much lower probability of developing a symptomatic or serious infection with Sars-CoV-2 compared to the general population.”

    This cracks me up. My 90 year-old mom watches TV all day in her own apartment and smokes a pack a day. She is DNR, and couldn’t give two hoots about “the virus”.

  19. Anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes TV doctor Oz here in the US found the same thing when searching the lupus national database. He is working on a study of this out of his hospital in NY but he says it’s slow process.

    Trump said two weeks ago his top military logistics guy was in charge of “surging” HCQ directly to doctors and pharmacies all over the country. That was an attempt to circumvent the governors demanding hospital-only treatment.

    Seems obvious for a month now that the key to restarting the economy is PROPHYLACTIC dosing of HCQ in all at risk workers and any of the public who want it.

  20. Well I got my oximeter in the mail. Now I just need something for strokes and kidney failure. At this rate I’m going to blow my whole stimulus check on cheap Chinese medical junk.

    • LOL: Brás Cubas
  21. @Anonymous
    Steve:

    Written here about this before. What about people with Lupus or Rheumatoid not on Hydrochloroquine? Could the overactive immune system of people generally suffering from some Autoimmune Diseases be providing the prophylaxis and not the hydrochloroquine?

    I have a Rheumatic Autoimmune Disease called Anklosing Spondylitis (AS) that went active 3-4 years ago. Swear I haven’t had a cold or flu since the major flares have occurred. Avoiding most Biologics i.e. Humira for the time period. Immune system is complex, but could it be the overactive immune response attacking the body also repels viruses?

    The HLA-B27 allelle that denotes suceptibility to some Rheumatic disease such as AS seems to protect prophylactically from a few viruses at some level, including HIV non-progression to AIDS, Hepatitis C protection, other viruses possibly.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3240147/

    https://spondylitis.org/research-new/covid-19-and-spondyloarthritis-your-questions-answered/


    “However, be mindful of something else: People who are HLA-B27 positive demonstrate increased natural immunity toward a number of viral infections, such as HIV-1, hepatitis C and influenza, although whether this natural immunity carries over to coronavirus has not been studied.”

    It’s a good question. Along the same lines i recently heard that people with seasonal allergies have something like 1/3rd less chance of cancer overall. Apparently it’s been known for years but it was new to me.

    So a hyperactive immune system may have a silver lining. Something like that could definitely be a confounding factor in Covid-19 where it’s already known that some significant fraction of the infected don’t even have symptoms.

    • Replies: @res

    So a hyperactive immune system may have a silver lining.
     
    Definitely. That the "hyperactive" immune system had survival benefit in the past is likely why it is still around.

    Don't know if you are familiar with HLA genetics, but if not see
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_leukocyte_antigen#Variability

    Here is a paper with details on autoimmune susceptibility based on HLA alleles. If you look at Table 1 you will see Anon367's example of HLA-B27 and ankylosing spondylitis mentioned.
    The MHC locus and genetic susceptibility to autoimmune and infectious diseases
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5406920/
    Table 2 looks at disease susceptibility.

    Figure 2 panel b looks at tradeoffs (notice Anon367's example at the top).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5406920/bin/13059_2017_1207_Fig2_HTML.jpg

    There is so much variability in the HLA region that most whole genome sequencing (currently) does not resolve it. There is ongoing work in that area so hopefully that will change. For example (there are other efforts):
    Fast and accurate HLA typing from short-read next-generation sequence data with xHLA
    https://www.pnas.org/content/114/30/8059

    The software is available on GitHub, but their comments indicate it is touchy about the BAM files it needs.
    https://github.com/humanlongevity/HLA

    P.S. The first paper has a paragraph about the software available circa 2017:

    Several tools allowing imputation of classic HLA alleles at four-digit resolution are now available for MHC imputation analysis; the most common are SNP2HLA [20], HLA*IMP:01 [21], and an improved HLA*IMP:02 [22]. HLA*IMP:02 outperforms HLA*IMP:01 on heterogeneous European populations and it increases the power and accuracy in cross-European GWAS [22]. Missing data are also better tolerated in HLA*IMP:02, while SNP genotyping platforms must be selected in HLA*IMP:01 [21, 22]. SNP2HLA not only imputes classic alleles but also amino acids by using two European reference panels, one based on data from HapMap-CEPH (90 individuals), and the other on the Type 1 Diabetes Genetics Consortium (T1DGC) study [20]. Another tool, HLA-VBSeq, allows imputation of MHC alleles at full resolution from whole-genome sequence data [23]. HLA-VBSeq does not require prior knowledge of MHC allele frequencies and can therefore be used for samples from genetically diverse populations [23]. It has successfully typed HLA-A alleles at full resolution in a Japanese population and identified rare causal variants implicated in complex human diseases [12].
     
  22. Anonymous[769] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    In Italy, Practically Nobody Who Takes Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis Got CV
     
    Duh.

    In Italy, Practically Nobody Who Takes Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis Got CV

    Duh.

    Why is that result a “Duh”?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    You're right. I should have written, "You don't say?"

    "Duh," was wrong. It was a bad choice of expression from someone who has grown impatient with the overreaction to this virus and angry about the damage that reaction is causing.

    Some doctors have reported taking hydroxychloroquine themselves as a prophylactic, so I am not surprised by this result. Plus, I had already heard this information about Italy somewhere else.

    In addition to that, I am informed now, like millions of others, about blatant efforts to exaggerate death numbers, to censor, obfuscate and block the truth about SARS-CoV-2, and to disinform the public about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.

    Please forgive me.

  23. @Anon

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.
     
    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.

    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.

    I never knew that.

    It’s funny how he really describes it like a virus:

    The country is in the throes of a major epidemic, with no known cure and some pretty scary symptoms. It’s called Trump Derangement Syndrome, or TDS, and it’s rapidly spreading from the point of origin – the political class – to the population at large.
    Dec. 27, 2016

    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-raimondo-trump-derangement-syndrome-20161226-story.html

    “I have known Justin Raimondo since we stood together to oppose the rush to war against Iraq in 1991,” Buchanan said in an email. “In the three decades since, no man in America worked harder or did more to resist the interventionist impulses of the American establishment and the wars they produced than Justin and his Antiwar website.”

    https://buchanan.org/blog/in-memoriam-justin-raimondo-1951-2019-137227#more-137227

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I read quite a bit of Raimondo in the early 2000s. RIP.

    A column in relation to 911.

    https://www.antiwar.com/justin/j100402.html

    Was his death of natural causes or did he fly too close to the sun?

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2019/09/15/the-fbi-vs-antiwar-com/

    I suspect not, it looks like his death was due to the cigarette on his lips. Interesting to read this article on China. The Venn diagram of Unz/Sailer and Raimondo share a lot in common but are also different, as in here. The libertarian impulse to ignore race/national interest so that trade may flourish (and Alisa Rosenbaum may rest happy) is on full display here.

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2019/08/26/why-they-hate-china-2/

    Some of the critical comments represent the tectonic shift of recent thought. A lot of people with libertarian instinct have learned that their instinctual worry about being murdered as a Kulak by communists was less about economics and more about communism being just one tool of Jews to liberate you, as a non-Jewish white guy, from your stuff. And that the cultural marxism that we see today is yet another Jewish creation to do basically the same thing.

    If that is the case, then let's worry more about the preservation of our stuff and less about teh racism of teh yellow peril because we are concerned that the noble capitalism of China might be impinged.
  24. Anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:

    Check out Gov Gavin Newsom’s twitter feed. He has released a four stage outline for opening up the state. Apparently the process is going to take many months or possibly longer!

    Why would any business owner restart their business in CA? Maybe someday the capricious governor allows you to open and then of course at any time he might shut you down again in the future.

    This crazy guy is trying to trigger civil unrest apparently.

    SOW THE WIND REAP THE WHIRLWIND

    twitter.com/gavinnewsom

    • Replies: @Currier House
    Must viciously crush the Capitalist Roaders...
  25. Chloroquine was discovered to be a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread back in 2004. Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has similar anti-viral properties. This has been known for decades. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043466614002427
    HCQ an autophagosome-lysosome fusion inhibitor broadly used in autophagy pathway research. Mechanistic study suggested that HCQ activated the innate immune signaling pathways. These results reveal an emerging role of HCQ activating the host innate immunity against virus infection.

    unfortunately these drugs are in short supply and not available at the pharmacies. I have been able to obtain several cases of tonic water which contains quinine. It has similar antiviral properties and works as a zinc ionophore to get zinc into the cells where it disrupts viral replication.

    Chloroquine is an amine acidotropic form of quinine and emerged approximately 70 years ago as an effective substitute for natural quinine. Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine belong to the same molecular family. The Cuomo family treated themselves with quinine when they all came down with the Wahu flu. Be prepared and stock up on zinc, tonic water and make sure you get enough vitamin D.

    • Replies: @Aj7575
    Thanks.
    , @Philip Owen
    It may hold back SARS-CoV-2. The issue is that the dose level to be effective kills more people from heart conditions than it saves from the virus. In the original French study, 30 finished the course and got better. (But 97% of people get better anyway). One didn't finish because he died. He wasn't counted. Two became too ill to continue treatment so were not counted. Two had such severe side effects that the stopped taking it. One left the area. The drug needs to save more people from the 3% than it kills in the 97% to be considered a remote possibility.
    , @Currier House
    If you combine hydroxychlroquine with zinc and azithromax, the success rate (patients who recover) is ~100%. The whole course of this 3 drug cocktail costs $20. There are side effects in perhaps 1% of treated patients. It takes 5 days and is taken in an outpatient setting. Stay off the vents.

    Hydroxychloroquine + zinc + azithromycin dose schedule here, in addition to good explanation of the science.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TJdjhd_XG8
  26. @ziggurat
    Chris Martenson from Peak Prosperity has noticed a couple odd things about many recent studies of Hydroxychloroquine:
    1) They are done after patient is very sick.
    2) They often exclude zinc, even though that is an important part. Sometimes they include Azithromycin and yet somehow forget the zinc.

    It's almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.

    Chris Martenson has good daily updates of about 40 minutes long:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos

    one reason they have attacked the use of Hydroxychloroquine is due to the shortages. We do not have an adequate supply to treat all coronavirus positive Americans. Doctors and hospitals have hoarded it all for themselves and their family members,

    famotidine is another drug which shows promise. A clinical trial is under way at major New York hospitals to test this heartburn medication. The researchers initially wanted to test famotidine on its own, but with so many patients now being treated with hydroxychloroquine, they wouldn’t have had enough test subjects. Time to stock up on Pepsid AC which is the over the counter medicine containing famotidine

    clearly the doctors in NY see value with Hydroxychloroquine , since all hospital patients are taking this drug to fight CV. If it was really dangerous why would all the hospitals be giving this drug to CV patients ? https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/new-york-clinical-trial-quietly-tests-heartburn-remedy-against-coronavirus

  27. Yeah, but Scott Gottlieb actively campaigning against.

    Who will win?

  28. @newrouter
    smoke 'em if you got them: gilroy was here lol

    France finds smoking may help you RESIST Covid-19...

    https://www.rt.com/news/486605-french-study-nicotine-resist-coronavirus/

    Nicotine shows incredible promise in the fight against the Wuhan coronavirus as both a preventive and curative remedy. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Smokers are ‘four times less likely‘ to contract Covid-19, prompting nicotine patch trials on patients in France. The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack.
    https://www.qeios.com/read/WPP19W.2

    Review of 28 studies shows number of smokers among hospitalised patients is ‘lower than expected. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264635/More-proof-smokers-risk-catching-coronavirus-expert-admits-weird.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Who wants to come within six feet of some stinky smoker? They've been "social distancing" for many years now. Even the virus avoids the clouds.


    https://us.123rf.com/450wm/golubovystock/golubovystock1710/golubovystock171000110/87713615-problems-in-life-career-crash-successful-man-lost-everything-despair-in-alcohol-and-vaping-tired-ban.jpg?ver=6

    Coronavirus has a lot of catching up to do if its plan is to make non-smoking and transit as deadly as smoking and driving. Our local paper reported 0 deaths from Covid-19 in a four-county area as of the 20th. The DMV shows eight auto fatalities in the same territory as of the 26th. And that's an improvement of ~25% from last year's total of 34-- 2/mo. vs 3/mo.
    , @Elli
    The Medicine News article claims that prisoners and psychiatric patients have low rates of infection and they smoke a lot. Maybe in France, inmates get to smoke cigarettes.

    In the US there are prisons with 80% infection rates and in all the prison shows, inmates get e-cigs.
  29. @Anonymous


    In Italy, Practically Nobody Who Takes Hydroxychloroquine for Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis Got CV
     
    Duh.
     
    Why is that result a “Duh”?

    You’re right. I should have written, “You don’t say?”

    “Duh,” was wrong. It was a bad choice of expression from someone who has grown impatient with the overreaction to this virus and angry about the damage that reaction is causing.

    Some doctors have reported taking hydroxychloroquine themselves as a prophylactic, so I am not surprised by this result. Plus, I had already heard this information about Italy somewhere else.

    In addition to that, I am informed now, like millions of others, about blatant efforts to exaggerate death numbers, to censor, obfuscate and block the truth about SARS-CoV-2, and to disinform the public about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.

    Please forgive me.

    • Replies: @Currier House
    Buzz, it's a duh because it is well known that hydroxycholoroquine acts as an ionophore, opening up the cellular gates if you will (the membranes) to allow in the zinc, the secondary drug in the 3 drug cocktail. The zinc inhibits viral replication.

    Finally, the azithromax protects against bacterial infection. Often when the body is fighting a virus, it becomes temporarily weakened and susceptible to bacterial infection. The azithromax, an antibiotic, prevents that.

    This 3 drug cocktail works (causes full recovery, no death, no ventilation required) in effectively 100% of patients. Well-known in medical (pulmonary and critical care) circles.

    You can search the excellent interview on Youtube between Rudy Giuliana and Dr Vladmir Zelenko MD who has treated 5-600 Covid patients successfully with these 3 simple test-tested drugs. Obviously, this information is being suppressed, because the Covid Response is and always has been (was planned to be) political in nature.

    CH

  30. @Hypnotoad666

    OTOH, this only supports the hypothesis that Plaquenil only works either a) taken as a prophylactic or b) taken within a day or two at most of becoming infected with Covid.
     
    Yeah, but that's as good or better than a vaccine. No?

    Yes!
    An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure!
    I bet, when bios are written in 20 years’ time, that it will be revealed that many of today’s elites were taking some. I took a treatment course 45 years ago when about to travel to parts of the world where malaria was an issue. No side effects that I can remember. But I was young and healthy, so maybe that played a role.

  31. Hydroxychloroquine is a prophylatic against SARS?

  32. @Anon

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.
     
    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.

    I had no idea Justin passed. The guy was politically eclectic, to say the least. RIP.

  33. Anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:

    Okay, so anecdotal advice to beat the coronavirus:

    Sunbathing
    Smoking
    Gin and Tonic (quinine)

    Is it the 1950s? *Tip of Homburg hat*

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Okay, so anecdotal advice to beat the coronavirus:

    Sunbathing
    Smoking
    Gin and Tonic (quinine)

    Is it the 1950s?
     
    Evidently it's still the 1950s in Spain. Netflix warns viewers that Money Heist (La Casa de Papel) contains nudity, violence, and smoking.

    It sure has a lot of the last:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Y4DDmX7Ns
  34. Quite a few common drugs are being tested to see if they could be of some value in mitigating COVID-19. Pepcid is one such, quinine another.

    It is difficult, however, to design good trials with controls and to develop good clinical guidelines for those that seem promising.

  35. are being protected from CV by their autoimmune disorders?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1798134/
    Cigarette smoking and the risk of systemic lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis

    Freemer et al hypothesise that the association between dsDNA and smoking is explained by the formation of DNA adducts with resultant autoantibodies to the damaged DNA. In support of the DNA adduct hypothesis, they cite their observation that the positive association is only present in current smokers and not former smokers. Importantly, antibodies to DNA adducts have been shown to persist after smoking cessation

    MORE evidence smoking may cut the risk of coronavirus: Review of 28 studies shows number of smokers among hospitalised patients is ‘lower than expected’ as expert admits the mounting findings are ‘weird’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264635/More-proof-smokers-risk-catching-coronavirus-expert-admits-weird.html

    • Replies: @Travis
    https://twitter.com/ElianaGolber/status/1253300348661280769
  36. @Travis
    Nicotine shows incredible promise in the fight against the Wuhan coronavirus as both a preventive and curative remedy. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Smokers are 'four times less likely' to contract Covid-19, prompting nicotine patch trials on patients in France. The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack.
    https://www.qeios.com/read/WPP19W.2

    Review of 28 studies shows number of smokers among hospitalised patients is 'lower than expected. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264635/More-proof-smokers-risk-catching-coronavirus-expert-admits-weird.html

    Who wants to come within six feet of some stinky smoker? They’ve been “social distancing” for many years now. Even the virus avoids the clouds.

    Coronavirus has a lot of catching up to do if its plan is to make non-smoking and transit as deadly as smoking and driving. Our local paper reported 0 deaths from Covid-19 in a four-county area as of the 20th. The DMV shows eight auto fatalities in the same territory as of the 26th. And that’s an improvement of ~25% from last year’s total of 34– 2/mo. vs 3/mo.

    • Thanks: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    We could call it the Brad Pitt Plan for Encouraging Social Distancing. I was talking to my neighbor while she was cleaning out her garage. She unearthed a snapshot from the late 1980s of herself and Brad Pitt. She remarked, "Brad was a very sweet boy, but he did not shower regularly."

    However, I noticed she put the picture on her Keep pile.

  37. I find it hilarious that nicotine patches are now supposed to work – smokers smoke, they do not inject nicotine. Also, the same logic applies here – not everybody takes to smoking easily and perhaps those genes are the same as the ones that protect non-smokers from the virus.

    I hope that chlorox-tonic study will finally lead to something, but again getting those drugs for everybody will be a major challenge because nothing is made in USA any more. I think India is one of its major manufacturers and it has already banned its export a few weeks ago. Also, I wonder how much schwepps one is supposed to drink to get the same effect ? Is that quantity measured in gallons or barrels per day ?

    Excellent Taki column, Steve. What is it with our LA county getting much higher mortality than the neighboring Ventura and Orange counties ? I feel stupid not moving to the Thousand Oaks area, something I wanted to do a year ago.

    • Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    Nicotine is known to down regulate ACE2 receptors , which is how this Coronavirus attacks our cells. Nicotine may block this virus from getting into cells.

    using the patch will get nicotine into your blood stream and allow the nicotine to protect cells from infection. Thus effect in ACE2 receptors has been observed in studies done with smokeless tobacco , so we know their is no need to smoke , nicotine will reduce ACE2 activity when administered orally via snuff. But the effect is shown to be stronger in the lungs when tobacco is smoked , so the nicotine patch may not deliver a strong enough dosage. You get a much stronger dosage of nicotine when using snuff or other forms of smokeless tobacco.
    , @anon
    I hope that chlorox-tonic study will finally lead to something, but again getting those drugs for everybody will be a major challenge because nothing is made in USA any more.

    That's not true.

    I think India is one of its major manufacturers and it has already banned its export a few weeks ago. ,

    Mylan restarted production of that specific drug in a West Virginia weeks ago.

    https://www.wboy.com/news/health/coronavirus/mylan-announces-production-of-pills-at-morgantown-facility-that-may-be-useful-for-coronavirus-patients/

    Search engines are cool!
  38. @Anonymous
    Okay, so anecdotal advice to beat the coronavirus:

    Sunbathing
    Smoking
    Gin and Tonic (quinine)

    Is it the 1950s? *Tip of Homburg hat*

    Okay, so anecdotal advice to beat the coronavirus:

    Sunbathing
    Smoking
    Gin and Tonic (quinine)

    Is it the 1950s?

    Evidently it’s still the 1950s in Spain. Netflix warns viewers that Money Heist (La Casa de Papel) contains nudity, violence, and smoking.

    It sure has a lot of the last:

  39. “It’s just the flu”

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

    (Free to read)

    “The death toll from coronavirus may be almost 60 per cent higher than reported in official counts, according to an FT analysis of overall fatalities during the pandemic in 14 countries.

    Mortality statistics show 122,000 deaths in excess of normal levels across these locations, considerably higher than the 77,000 official Covid-19 deaths reported for the same places and time periods.

    If the same level of under-reporting observed in these countries was happening worldwide, the global Covid-19 death toll would rise from the current official total of 201,000 to as high as 318,000.

    To calculate excess deaths, the FT has compared deaths from all causes in the weeks of a location’s outbreak in March and April 2020 to the average for the same period between 2015 and 2019. The total of 122,000 amounts to a 50 per cent rise in overall mortality relative to the historical average for the locations studied.

    In all the countries analysed except Denmark, excess deaths far outnumbered the official coronavirus death tolls. The accuracy of official death statistics from the virus is limited by how effectively a country is testing people to confirm cases. Some countries, including China, have retrospectively revised up their death tolls from the disease. “

    Now these figures aren’t gigantic, but they’re not negligible either, especially given the pretty severe lockdowns in all the countries bar Sweden.

    Note also that cities are by far the hardest hit places.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    Still spiking the numbers to make your case, eh? All excess mortality can not be assumed to be covid. The lockdowns have had a deleterious effect on health itself. And the lockdowns may have caused some of the worst transmission.

    As Michael Levit pointed out on Twitter, those comparisons are cooked in that article. They cherry picked countries. In italys case they cherry picked the hardest hit region. And of course they only used recent years. Even so some countries are in line with their average flu season, and others are up to almost twice a bad (not 10-50x worse as you have claimed). Making comparisons back 20 or 60 years shows this is in line with historically really bad bouts with the flu.

    We give you permission to keep freaking out, though.
  40. @Hypnotoad666

    It’s almost like they want it to fail.

     

    Absolutely they do. Symptoms of TDS include loss of critical thinking skills and sudden outbursts of incoherent noise. If I hear about that fish tank lady one more time . . . .

    Out of an audience of 65,000 chronic patients (Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis), who systematically take Plaquenil / hydroxychloroquine, only 20 patients tested positive for the virus. Nobody died, nobody is in intensive care, according to the data collected so far.
     
    So basically Trump "discovered" the de facto vaccine. This will not go over well at the New York Times, which basically got Democrat governors to ban the life-saving drug. I wonder how they can deal with this level of cognitive dissonance.

    They’re going to deal with their cognitive dissonance the way they always do. By being even worse than Trump about denying they said something different in the past.

  41. @Reg Cæsar
    Who wants to come within six feet of some stinky smoker? They've been "social distancing" for many years now. Even the virus avoids the clouds.


    https://us.123rf.com/450wm/golubovystock/golubovystock1710/golubovystock171000110/87713615-problems-in-life-career-crash-successful-man-lost-everything-despair-in-alcohol-and-vaping-tired-ban.jpg?ver=6

    Coronavirus has a lot of catching up to do if its plan is to make non-smoking and transit as deadly as smoking and driving. Our local paper reported 0 deaths from Covid-19 in a four-county area as of the 20th. The DMV shows eight auto fatalities in the same territory as of the 26th. And that's an improvement of ~25% from last year's total of 34-- 2/mo. vs 3/mo.

    We could call it the Brad Pitt Plan for Encouraging Social Distancing. I was talking to my neighbor while she was cleaning out her garage. She unearthed a snapshot from the late 1980s of herself and Brad Pitt. She remarked, “Brad was a very sweet boy, but he did not shower regularly.”

    However, I noticed she put the picture on her Keep pile.

  42. @Anonymous
    Steve:

    Written here about this before. What about people with Lupus or Rheumatoid not on Hydrochloroquine? Could the overactive immune system of people generally suffering from some Autoimmune Diseases be providing the prophylaxis and not the hydrochloroquine?

    I have a Rheumatic Autoimmune Disease called Anklosing Spondylitis (AS) that went active 3-4 years ago. Swear I haven’t had a cold or flu since the major flares have occurred. Avoiding most Biologics i.e. Humira for the time period. Immune system is complex, but could it be the overactive immune response attacking the body also repels viruses?

    The HLA-B27 allelle that denotes suceptibility to some Rheumatic disease such as AS seems to protect prophylactically from a few viruses at some level, including HIV non-progression to AIDS, Hepatitis C protection, other viruses possibly.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3240147/

    https://spondylitis.org/research-new/covid-19-and-spondyloarthritis-your-questions-answered/


    “However, be mindful of something else: People who are HLA-B27 positive demonstrate increased natural immunity toward a number of viral infections, such as HIV-1, hepatitis C and influenza, although whether this natural immunity carries over to coronavirus has not been studied.”

    I concur with the overactive immune system being protective. After several years of bad arthritis I tried a biologic. A few days later I was confused as everything felt “off.” After a bit I remembered that’s what it’s like to be sick. So I’ll buy the overactive immune system is protective explanation.

    But I’m hearing a lot of the damage is from an overactive immune system. Could HDC be a bad idea in general, but could at preventing the cytokine storm?

  43. Correlation is not causation.

  44. @Travis
    Chloroquine was discovered to be a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread back in 2004. Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has similar anti-viral properties. This has been known for decades. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043466614002427
    HCQ an autophagosome-lysosome fusion inhibitor broadly used in autophagy pathway research. Mechanistic study suggested that HCQ activated the innate immune signaling pathways. These results reveal an emerging role of HCQ activating the host innate immunity against virus infection.

    unfortunately these drugs are in short supply and not available at the pharmacies. I have been able to obtain several cases of tonic water which contains quinine. It has similar antiviral properties and works as a zinc ionophore to get zinc into the cells where it disrupts viral replication.

    Chloroquine is an amine acidotropic form of quinine and emerged approximately 70 years ago as an effective substitute for natural quinine. Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine belong to the same molecular family. The Cuomo family treated themselves with quinine when they all came down with the Wahu flu. Be prepared and stock up on zinc, tonic water and make sure you get enough vitamin D.

    Thanks.

  45. Patagonia Man [AKA "PTG Mann"] says:

    (21 March) via Dr Paul Craig Roberts, President Reagan’s Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy.

    Opinion of Prof. of Medicine:
    Although this study has too many caveats to act on: unfortunately, it was not very randomized and the sample size is very low … we can expect more definitive studies to be published soon.

    Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open- label non-randomized clinical trial
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9RqfsmEx55FDum4xY_IlWSHnGbj/view

  46. @YetAnotherAnon
    "It's just the flu"

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

    (Free to read)


    "The death toll from coronavirus may be almost 60 per cent higher than reported in official counts, according to an FT analysis of overall fatalities during the pandemic in 14 countries.

    Mortality statistics show 122,000 deaths in excess of normal levels across these locations, considerably higher than the 77,000 official Covid-19 deaths reported for the same places and time periods.

    If the same level of under-reporting observed in these countries was happening worldwide, the global Covid-19 death toll would rise from the current official total of 201,000 to as high as 318,000.

    To calculate excess deaths, the FT has compared deaths from all causes in the weeks of a location’s outbreak in March and April 2020 to the average for the same period between 2015 and 2019. The total of 122,000 amounts to a 50 per cent rise in overall mortality relative to the historical average for the locations studied.

    In all the countries analysed except Denmark, excess deaths far outnumbered the official coronavirus death tolls. The accuracy of official death statistics from the virus is limited by how effectively a country is testing people to confirm cases. Some countries, including China, have retrospectively revised up their death tolls from the disease. "
     

    Now these figures aren't gigantic, but they're not negligible either, especially given the pretty severe lockdowns in all the countries bar Sweden.

    Note also that cities are by far the hardest hit places.

    Still spiking the numbers to make your case, eh? All excess mortality can not be assumed to be covid. The lockdowns have had a deleterious effect on health itself. And the lockdowns may have caused some of the worst transmission.

    As Michael Levit pointed out on Twitter, those comparisons are cooked in that article. They cherry picked countries. In italys case they cherry picked the hardest hit region. And of course they only used recent years. Even so some countries are in line with their average flu season, and others are up to almost twice a bad (not 10-50x worse as you have claimed). Making comparisons back 20 or 60 years shows this is in line with historically really bad bouts with the flu.

    We give you permission to keep freaking out, though.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "All excess mortality can not be assumed to be covid."

    Correlation isn't causation, but it's the way to bet. And some of that mortality will be because of cancelled operations etc.

    The lockdowns have had a deleterious effect on health itself."

    Any numbers/evidence? I'm sure its affected mental health, but that doesn't immediately impact death rates. A&E departments are deserted, fewer fights, car crashes etc, so its not all one way either.

    "In italys case they cherry picked the hardest hit region."

    Italy have only done the data for the North.

    "And of course they only used recent years... making comparisons back 20 or 60 years shows this is in line with historically really bad bouts with the flu."

    This is your only valid criticism, but take it up with the FT, not me. I'm well aware of 1958 and 1968, thank you. There was a good LRB piece on the 1958 flu from a doctor who was at St Thomas's (of Boris fame) at the time. Certainly the UK was a lot more phlegmatic about deaths in those days, every adult had lived through WW2.

    "(not 10-50x worse as you have claimed)" - I made no such claim.
  47. I think the American jihad against hydroxychloroquine doesn’t have that much to do with TDS. I think the bigger cause is more practical — hydroxychloroquine is off-patent, and the American pharmaceutical industry would rather want a widespread drug treatment to be on-patent. Therefore, the industry is winding up its bought and paid for politicians, and the media sources it back door influences via advertising accounts for prescription drugs, to agitate against hydroxychloroquine.

    • Replies: @Sam Malone
    Good call.
    , @Travis
    most the articles on HCQ are attacking Trump for recommending this dangerous drug. The reason the media attacks HC is 90% because of Trump and because the media wants to damage Trump by prolonging the lockdown to hurt the economy. If HCQ is shown to prevent 90% of the users from getting coronavirus it would be as effective as most vaccines and the epidemic would be over. So the media runs scare stories about the dangers of this safe drug to frighten people from taking it.

    But the studies themselves are designed to fail because the Big Pharma does want this drug to fail , so they can market an expensive patented form of HCQ or one of their costly antiviral medications.
    , @Anonymous
    Surprise, surprise!

    From Reuters this morning, an article about (expensive!) remdesivir.

    Data on Gilead drug raises hopes in pandemic fight, Fauci calls it 'highly significant'

    The top U.S. infectious disease official said Gilead Sciences Inc’s experimental antiviral drug remdesivir will become the standard of care for COVID-19 after early results from a key clinical trial on Wednesday showed it helped patients recover more quickly from the illness caused by the coronavirus.
    . . .
    patients given remdesivir recovered 31% faster than those given a placebo, were hailed by Dr. Anthony Fauci as “highly significant.”
    . . .
    This will be the standard of care,” he said, adding “the FDA ... is working with Gilead to figure out mechanisms to make this easily available to those who need it.”
    . . .
    sending its shares up more than 7%.
    . . .
    early results from its 1,063-patient trial show that hospitalized COVID-19 patients given remdesivir recovered in 11 days, compared to 15 days for patients given a placebo.
    . . .
    8% of patients given the drug died, compared with 11.6% in the placebo group - but the difference was not statistically significant so may not be due to Gilead’s drug.
    . . .
    Gilead also provided data on a study in severe COVID-19 patients it has conducted in dozens of medical centers, which does not have a placebo comparison but tested the drug under five-day and 10-day regimens.
    . . .
    In that 397-patient trial, Gilead said 62% of patients treated early with remdesivir were discharged from the hospital, compared with 49% of patients who were treated later in the course of the infection.
     
    But text doesn't do this justice, you have to watch the video of Fauci blatantly shilling for this experimental drug to get the full effect. Trump then dumps cold water on him with a simple question
  48. @Travis
    Chloroquine was discovered to be a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread back in 2004. Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has similar anti-viral properties. This has been known for decades. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043466614002427
    HCQ an autophagosome-lysosome fusion inhibitor broadly used in autophagy pathway research. Mechanistic study suggested that HCQ activated the innate immune signaling pathways. These results reveal an emerging role of HCQ activating the host innate immunity against virus infection.

    unfortunately these drugs are in short supply and not available at the pharmacies. I have been able to obtain several cases of tonic water which contains quinine. It has similar antiviral properties and works as a zinc ionophore to get zinc into the cells where it disrupts viral replication.

    Chloroquine is an amine acidotropic form of quinine and emerged approximately 70 years ago as an effective substitute for natural quinine. Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine belong to the same molecular family. The Cuomo family treated themselves with quinine when they all came down with the Wahu flu. Be prepared and stock up on zinc, tonic water and make sure you get enough vitamin D.

    It may hold back SARS-CoV-2. The issue is that the dose level to be effective kills more people from heart conditions than it saves from the virus. In the original French study, 30 finished the course and got better. (But 97% of people get better anyway). One didn’t finish because he died. He wasn’t counted. Two became too ill to continue treatment so were not counted. Two had such severe side effects that the stopped taking it. One left the area. The drug needs to save more people from the 3% than it kills in the 97% to be considered a remote possibility.

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    Particularly in Dr. Raoult's therapy, azithromycin is an element (originally it was used in conjunction with hydroxychloroquine alone, but he subsequently added zinc to the treatment). Thus, any side effects manifesting through cardiac problems could be instead tied to the AZT.

    Here is a link to a comment in a thread at the Conservative Tree House from a retired doctor who makes the point that the family of antibiotics of which AZT is a member have been known for years to be linked to just such problems. The comment is worthy of a close reading.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/04/21/fauci-resurfaces-nih-panel-recommends-against-hydroxychloroquine-treatment/comment-page-3/#comment-8111040

    Many other useful drugs also have these side effects, and consequently this is factored into the care given to patients who are receiving these drugs in the form of increased monitoring to detect problems at their onset. There is no reason not to use these drugs if such vigilance is exercised. Further, there are other families of antibiotics which do not exhibit these side effects that could be substituted if the therapy is a "cocktail" of HCQ, some antibiotic from another family, and potentially zinc.

    So these cardiac effects may have nothing to do with HCQ. Gastric issues, diarrhea, are associated with HCQ, but so far as I know, not heart issues.
    , @Travis
    if hydroxychloroquine is so dangerous , why are the NY hospitals still giving HCQ to the vast majority of those hospitalized with coronavirus ? are they all quack doctors here in NY and NJ ? Hydroxychloroquine is so widely used in NY that they cannot find any enough patients not taking it to do another drugs study using Pepsid AC (famotidine)

    New York clinical trial testing heartburn medication as coronavirus treatment.
    Patients in the study are being given the heartburn drug intravenously along with hydroxychloroquine at Northwell’s North Shore Hospital, Long Island Jewish Medical Center and Lenox Hill Hospital. The researchers initially wanted to test famotidine on its own, but with so many patients now being treated with hydroxychloroquine, they wouldn’t have had enough test subjects. https://nypost.com/2020/04/26/ny-clinical-trial-testing-heartburn-medication-as-coronavirus-treatment/
  49. @Polynikes
    A gin and tonic a day keeps the kung flu away.

    Just try to find tonic on the shelves. It’s been gone for a couple of weeks down here.

  50. @Travis
    Nicotine shows incredible promise in the fight against the Wuhan coronavirus as both a preventive and curative remedy. https://www.medicine.news/2020-04-25-world-renowned-neurobiologist-says-nicotine-extract-protect-against-coronavirus.html

    Smokers are 'four times less likely' to contract Covid-19, prompting nicotine patch trials on patients in France. The researchers said that a “nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR)” plays a key role in infection from the coronavirus and that nicotine may act to protect this receptor from attack.
    https://www.qeios.com/read/WPP19W.2

    Review of 28 studies shows number of smokers among hospitalised patients is 'lower than expected. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264635/More-proof-smokers-risk-catching-coronavirus-expert-admits-weird.html

    The Medicine News article claims that prisoners and psychiatric patients have low rates of infection and they smoke a lot. Maybe in France, inmates get to smoke cigarettes.

    In the US there are prisons with 80% infection rates and in all the prison shows, inmates get e-cigs.

  51. @Anon

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.
     
    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.

    I don’t know why he would get credit for that. “Bush Derangement Syndrome” was a very, very common phrase deployed during the contentious George W. years to describe and mock liberal fury at the man and his wars, and later “Obama Derangement Syndrome” was occasionally thrown back at right wing critics. So “Trump Derangement Syndrome” was an inevitable and very apt modification that anyone could have logically made.

    But yes, Justin was an impressive guy for many other reasons.

  52. @countenance
    I think the American jihad against hydroxychloroquine doesn't have that much to do with TDS. I think the bigger cause is more practical -- hydroxychloroquine is off-patent, and the American pharmaceutical industry would rather want a widespread drug treatment to be on-patent. Therefore, the industry is winding up its bought and paid for politicians, and the media sources it back door influences via advertising accounts for prescription drugs, to agitate against hydroxychloroquine.

    Good call.

  53. @ziggurat
    Chris Martenson from Peak Prosperity has noticed a couple odd things about many recent studies of Hydroxychloroquine:
    1) They are done after patient is very sick.
    2) They often exclude zinc, even though that is an important part. Sometimes they include Azithromycin and yet somehow forget the zinc.

    It's almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.

    Chris Martenson has good daily updates of about 40 minutes long:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom/videos

    It’s almost like they want it to fail. Perhaps, due to :
    1) TDS
    2) Cheap medications are never as good as expensive ones, for corporate health and nourishment, which is is what really matters.

    They want everything to fail and to maximize the misery so that people accept permanent “contact tracing” (i.e. universal intrusive surveilance) and a vaccine along with a “vaccine passport”.

    Watch Deborah Birx interviewed here on CNN. The interesting part begins at 1:00 with Sanjay Gupta’s question and Birx’s answer (including Freudian slip):

    Birx is a board member of The Global Fund – a Gates Foundation funded NGO.

    • Agree: Manfred Arcane
  54. do those with Lupus also not get the flu?

  55. @Black-hole creator
    I find it hilarious that nicotine patches are now supposed to work - smokers smoke, they do not inject nicotine. Also, the same logic applies here - not everybody takes to smoking easily and perhaps those genes are the same as the ones that protect non-smokers from the virus.

    I hope that chlorox-tonic study will finally lead to something, but again getting those drugs for everybody will be a major challenge because nothing is made in USA any more. I think India is one of its major manufacturers and it has already banned its export a few weeks ago. Also, I wonder how much schwepps one is supposed to drink to get the same effect ? Is that quantity measured in gallons or barrels per day ?

    Excellent Taki column, Steve. What is it with our LA county getting much higher mortality than the neighboring Ventura and Orange counties ? I feel stupid not moving to the Thousand Oaks area, something I wanted to do a year ago.

    Nicotine is known to down regulate ACE2 receptors , which is how this Coronavirus attacks our cells. Nicotine may block this virus from getting into cells.

    using the patch will get nicotine into your blood stream and allow the nicotine to protect cells from infection. Thus effect in ACE2 receptors has been observed in studies done with smokeless tobacco , so we know their is no need to smoke , nicotine will reduce ACE2 activity when administered orally via snuff. But the effect is shown to be stronger in the lungs when tobacco is smoked , so the nicotine patch may not deliver a strong enough dosage. You get a much stronger dosage of nicotine when using snuff or other forms of smokeless tobacco.

  56. I like Trump’s idea on inserting a UV light source into the lungs and even GI tract. Would be cool if that worked and he was awarded the Nobel prize in pandemic treatment touting.

  57. @Anon
    Hydroxychloroquine has become as toxic (pun intended) as Zyklon B after Adolf Drumpf touted it.


    https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1255323820212334592?s=20

    Thankfully most doctors have ignored the scare stories about HCQ and are treating COVID19 with HCQ. And many hospital workers are dosing with HCQ to prevent infection. Even media scoundrels like Chris Cuomo took quinine to treat themselves when they contracted the Wahu Flu.

    If Trump had banned HCQ , like the democratic governors , the outrage would have been far worse and they would have attacked Trump for ignoring the science. Trump cannot win with the media. If he told people to get some sun to obtain vitamin D they would attack him for promoting skin cancer.

  58. For those unable to procure HCQ, look into a nutraceutical called Quercetin. It is being studied for the same zinc ionophore properties HCQ possesses. And it’s cheap and safe.

    Get yourself some zinc — an ionic form like sulfate or acetate — and a natural/herbal antibiotic and you got yourself a Poor Man’s “Trump Juice”

  59. @Anonymous
    Steve:

    Written here about this before. What about people with Lupus or Rheumatoid not on Hydrochloroquine? Could the overactive immune system of people generally suffering from some Autoimmune Diseases be providing the prophylaxis and not the hydrochloroquine?

    I have a Rheumatic Autoimmune Disease called Anklosing Spondylitis (AS) that went active 3-4 years ago. Swear I haven’t had a cold or flu since the major flares have occurred. Avoiding most Biologics i.e. Humira for the time period. Immune system is complex, but could it be the overactive immune response attacking the body also repels viruses?

    The HLA-B27 allelle that denotes suceptibility to some Rheumatic disease such as AS seems to protect prophylactically from a few viruses at some level, including HIV non-progression to AIDS, Hepatitis C protection, other viruses possibly.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3240147/

    https://spondylitis.org/research-new/covid-19-and-spondyloarthritis-your-questions-answered/


    “However, be mindful of something else: People who are HLA-B27 positive demonstrate increased natural immunity toward a number of viral infections, such as HIV-1, hepatitis C and influenza, although whether this natural immunity carries over to coronavirus has not been studied.”

    Good comment. And well worth reading because your additional statements go far beyond Steve’s excerpt. I find your elaboration convincing enough that I think we (as a society) should make an effort to find out. While remembering it is possible both explanations are true to some degree (i.e. hydroxychloroquine may help even if you are right).

    Consider the possibilities of having knowledge of which HLA profiles (or other genetic characteristics, like sickle cell trait and malaria) are positive or negative for a given epidemic disease. This would allow us to more intelligently decide which people should be protected from it and which people can safely fill high risk occupations (e.g. dentist in general, doctor treating patients with the disease) during the epidemic.

    An important additional question is whether the people who are genetically relatively safe from a disease do become infected enough to transmit it.

    P.S. Steve, would it be possible for you to add direct links to comments you excerpt and reference as a general practice? It’s usually not that hard to find them, but the links could be helpful (especially if the comments were under another post of yours).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This was my comment. Thanks. I really think that HBD is a forum for this thought process. Some genetic autoimmune issues that cause sickle cell, cystic fibrosis, rheumatic disease likely have a root cause and silver lining. Many of these issues arise due to genetics altering to fight a past enemies.
  60. @Bill P
    What if it isn't the hydroxychloroquine, but the autoimmune disease it's treating? People with asthma are underrepresented, too. As are women, who have a lot more autoimmune disorders.

    It isn't for no reason that so many people have autoimmune issues.

    I bet you older guys on 'roids are getting hit harder, because testosterone suppresses immune response. Probably why Chris Cuomo got so sick.

    I also bet people with well-exercised immune systems, such as parents of young children, elementary school teachers and nurses are underrepresented among the seriously ill.

    Your epidemiological sleuthing reminds me of The Andromeda Strain, in which the only survivors of a deadly alien virus outbreak are a colicky baby and an old alcoholic guy. It turns out the virus only survives in a specific PH range, and the baby’s hyperventilation and the old guy’s alcohol blood level both caused acidosis that took them out that range and killed the virus.

    That was great movie. I miss Michael Crichton.

  61. another good way to get a hopped-up immune system is intestinal parasites. Consider a prophylactic regimen of barefoot strolls in tropical climes with your analingus partners.

  62. @vhrm
    It's a good question. Along the same lines i recently heard that people with seasonal allergies have something like 1/3rd less chance of cancer overall. Apparently it's been known for years but it was new to me.

    So a hyperactive immune system may have a silver lining. Something like that could definitely be a confounding factor in Covid-19 where it's already known that some significant fraction of the infected don't even have symptoms.

    So a hyperactive immune system may have a silver lining.

    Definitely. That the “hyperactive” immune system had survival benefit in the past is likely why it is still around.

    Don’t know if you are familiar with HLA genetics, but if not see
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_leukocyte_antigen#Variability

    Here is a paper with details on autoimmune susceptibility based on HLA alleles. If you look at Table 1 you will see Anon367’s example of HLA-B27 and ankylosing spondylitis mentioned.
    The MHC locus and genetic susceptibility to autoimmune and infectious diseases
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5406920/
    Table 2 looks at disease susceptibility.

    Figure 2 panel b looks at tradeoffs (notice Anon367’s example at the top).

    There is so much variability in the HLA region that most whole genome sequencing (currently) does not resolve it. There is ongoing work in that area so hopefully that will change. For example (there are other efforts):
    Fast and accurate HLA typing from short-read next-generation sequence data with xHLA
    https://www.pnas.org/content/114/30/8059

    The software is available on GitHub, but their comments indicate it is touchy about the BAM files it needs.
    https://github.com/humanlongevity/HLA

    P.S. The first paper has a paragraph about the software available circa 2017:

    Several tools allowing imputation of classic HLA alleles at four-digit resolution are now available for MHC imputation analysis; the most common are SNP2HLA [20], HLA*IMP:01 [21], and an improved HLA*IMP:02 [22]. HLA*IMP:02 outperforms HLA*IMP:01 on heterogeneous European populations and it increases the power and accuracy in cross-European GWAS [22]. Missing data are also better tolerated in HLA*IMP:02, while SNP genotyping platforms must be selected in HLA*IMP:01 [21, 22]. SNP2HLA not only imputes classic alleles but also amino acids by using two European reference panels, one based on data from HapMap-CEPH (90 individuals), and the other on the Type 1 Diabetes Genetics Consortium (T1DGC) study [20]. Another tool, HLA-VBSeq, allows imputation of MHC alleles at full resolution from whole-genome sequence data [23]. HLA-VBSeq does not require prior knowledge of MHC allele frequencies and can therefore be used for samples from genetically diverse populations [23]. It has successfully typed HLA-A alleles at full resolution in a Japanese population and identified rare causal variants implicated in complex human diseases [12].

    • Thanks: vhrm
  63. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @res
    Good comment. And well worth reading because your additional statements go far beyond Steve's excerpt. I find your elaboration convincing enough that I think we (as a society) should make an effort to find out. While remembering it is possible both explanations are true to some degree (i.e. hydroxychloroquine may help even if you are right).

    Consider the possibilities of having knowledge of which HLA profiles (or other genetic characteristics, like sickle cell trait and malaria) are positive or negative for a given epidemic disease. This would allow us to more intelligently decide which people should be protected from it and which people can safely fill high risk occupations (e.g. dentist in general, doctor treating patients with the disease) during the epidemic.

    An important additional question is whether the people who are genetically relatively safe from a disease do become infected enough to transmit it.

    P.S. Steve, would it be possible for you to add direct links to comments you excerpt and reference as a general practice? It's usually not that hard to find them, but the links could be helpful (especially if the comments were under another post of yours).

    This was my comment. Thanks. I really think that HBD is a forum for this thought process. Some genetic autoimmune issues that cause sickle cell, cystic fibrosis, rheumatic disease likely have a root cause and silver lining. Many of these issues arise due to genetics altering to fight a past enemies.

    • Agree: res
  64. Ahhh, Steve, Orange Man Bad!

  65. @utu

    are being protected from CV by their autoimmune disorders?
     

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1798134/
    Cigarette smoking and the risk of systemic lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis

    Freemer et al hypothesise that the association between dsDNA and smoking is explained by the formation of DNA adducts with resultant autoantibodies to the damaged DNA. In support of the DNA adduct hypothesis, they cite their observation that the positive association is only present in current smokers and not former smokers. Importantly, antibodies to DNA adducts have been shown to persist after smoking cessation
     
    https://i.ibb.co/BchNgRL/graph15.png

    MORE evidence smoking may cut the risk of coronavirus: Review of 28 studies shows number of smokers among hospitalised patients is ‘lower than expected’ as expert admits the mounting findings are ‘weird’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264635/More-proof-smokers-risk-catching-coronavirus-expert-admits-weird.html

  66. anon[226] • Disclaimer says:
    @Black-hole creator
    I find it hilarious that nicotine patches are now supposed to work - smokers smoke, they do not inject nicotine. Also, the same logic applies here - not everybody takes to smoking easily and perhaps those genes are the same as the ones that protect non-smokers from the virus.

    I hope that chlorox-tonic study will finally lead to something, but again getting those drugs for everybody will be a major challenge because nothing is made in USA any more. I think India is one of its major manufacturers and it has already banned its export a few weeks ago. Also, I wonder how much schwepps one is supposed to drink to get the same effect ? Is that quantity measured in gallons or barrels per day ?

    Excellent Taki column, Steve. What is it with our LA county getting much higher mortality than the neighboring Ventura and Orange counties ? I feel stupid not moving to the Thousand Oaks area, something I wanted to do a year ago.

    I hope that chlorox-tonic study will finally lead to something, but again getting those drugs for everybody will be a major challenge because nothing is made in USA any more.

    That’s not true.

    I think India is one of its major manufacturers and it has already banned its export a few weeks ago. ,

    Mylan restarted production of that specific drug in a West Virginia weeks ago.

    https://www.wboy.com/news/health/coronavirus/mylan-announces-production-of-pills-at-morgantown-facility-that-may-be-useful-for-coronavirus-patients/

    Search engines are cool!

  67. Rather than being clever, the commenter simply raised the possibility of confounding by indication, which has a name because it is the bugbear of pharmacoepidemiology.

  68. @countenance
    I think the American jihad against hydroxychloroquine doesn't have that much to do with TDS. I think the bigger cause is more practical -- hydroxychloroquine is off-patent, and the American pharmaceutical industry would rather want a widespread drug treatment to be on-patent. Therefore, the industry is winding up its bought and paid for politicians, and the media sources it back door influences via advertising accounts for prescription drugs, to agitate against hydroxychloroquine.

    most the articles on HCQ are attacking Trump for recommending this dangerous drug. The reason the media attacks HC is 90% because of Trump and because the media wants to damage Trump by prolonging the lockdown to hurt the economy. If HCQ is shown to prevent 90% of the users from getting coronavirus it would be as effective as most vaccines and the epidemic would be over. So the media runs scare stories about the dangers of this safe drug to frighten people from taking it.

    But the studies themselves are designed to fail because the Big Pharma does want this drug to fail , so they can market an expensive patented form of HCQ or one of their costly antiviral medications.

    • Agree: Manfred Arcane
  69. @Travis
    Chloroquine was discovered to be a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread back in 2004. Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has similar anti-viral properties. This has been known for decades. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043466614002427
    HCQ an autophagosome-lysosome fusion inhibitor broadly used in autophagy pathway research. Mechanistic study suggested that HCQ activated the innate immune signaling pathways. These results reveal an emerging role of HCQ activating the host innate immunity against virus infection.

    unfortunately these drugs are in short supply and not available at the pharmacies. I have been able to obtain several cases of tonic water which contains quinine. It has similar antiviral properties and works as a zinc ionophore to get zinc into the cells where it disrupts viral replication.

    Chloroquine is an amine acidotropic form of quinine and emerged approximately 70 years ago as an effective substitute for natural quinine. Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine belong to the same molecular family. The Cuomo family treated themselves with quinine when they all came down with the Wahu flu. Be prepared and stock up on zinc, tonic water and make sure you get enough vitamin D.

    If you combine hydroxychlroquine with zinc and azithromax, the success rate (patients who recover) is ~100%. The whole course of this 3 drug cocktail costs $20. There are side effects in perhaps 1% of treated patients. It takes 5 days and is taken in an outpatient setting. Stay off the vents.

    Hydroxychloroquine + zinc + azithromycin dose schedule here, in addition to good explanation of the science.

  70. @Buzz Mohawk
    You're right. I should have written, "You don't say?"

    "Duh," was wrong. It was a bad choice of expression from someone who has grown impatient with the overreaction to this virus and angry about the damage that reaction is causing.

    Some doctors have reported taking hydroxychloroquine themselves as a prophylactic, so I am not surprised by this result. Plus, I had already heard this information about Italy somewhere else.

    In addition to that, I am informed now, like millions of others, about blatant efforts to exaggerate death numbers, to censor, obfuscate and block the truth about SARS-CoV-2, and to disinform the public about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.

    Please forgive me.

    Buzz, it’s a duh because it is well known that hydroxycholoroquine acts as an ionophore, opening up the cellular gates if you will (the membranes) to allow in the zinc, the secondary drug in the 3 drug cocktail. The zinc inhibits viral replication.

    Finally, the azithromax protects against bacterial infection. Often when the body is fighting a virus, it becomes temporarily weakened and susceptible to bacterial infection. The azithromax, an antibiotic, prevents that.

    This 3 drug cocktail works (causes full recovery, no death, no ventilation required) in effectively 100% of patients. Well-known in medical (pulmonary and critical care) circles.

    You can search the excellent interview on Youtube between Rudy Giuliana and Dr Vladmir Zelenko MD who has treated 5-600 Covid patients successfully with these 3 simple test-tested drugs. Obviously, this information is being suppressed, because the Covid Response is and always has been (was planned to be) political in nature.

    CH

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
  71. @Anonymous
    Check out Gov Gavin Newsom's twitter feed. He has released a four stage outline for opening up the state. Apparently the process is going to take many months or possibly longer!

    Why would any business owner restart their business in CA? Maybe someday the capricious governor allows you to open and then of course at any time he might shut you down again in the future.

    This crazy guy is trying to trigger civil unrest apparently.

    SOW THE WIND REAP THE WHIRLWIND

    twitter.com/gavinnewsom

    Must viciously crush the Capitalist Roaders…

  72. Anonymous[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @ziggurat

    Let’s not forget the late great American who coined the phrase Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). The indefatigable warrior for peace, Justin Raimondo. RIP Justin.
     
    I never knew that.

    It's funny how he really describes it like a virus:

    The country is in the throes of a major epidemic, with no known cure and some pretty scary symptoms. It’s called Trump Derangement Syndrome, or TDS, and it’s rapidly spreading from the point of origin – the political class – to the population at large.
    Dec. 27, 2016
     
    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-raimondo-trump-derangement-syndrome-20161226-story.html

    “I have known Justin Raimondo since we stood together to oppose the rush to war against Iraq in 1991,” Buchanan said in an email. “In the three decades since, no man in America worked harder or did more to resist the interventionist impulses of the American establishment and the wars they produced than Justin and his Antiwar website.”
     
    https://buchanan.org/blog/in-memoriam-justin-raimondo-1951-2019-137227#more-137227

    I read quite a bit of Raimondo in the early 2000s. RIP.

    A column in relation to 911.

    https://www.antiwar.com/justin/j100402.html

    Was his death of natural causes or did he fly too close to the sun?

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2019/09/15/the-fbi-vs-antiwar-com/

    I suspect not, it looks like his death was due to the cigarette on his lips. Interesting to read this article on China. The Venn diagram of Unz/Sailer and Raimondo share a lot in common but are also different, as in here. The libertarian impulse to ignore race/national interest so that trade may flourish (and Alisa Rosenbaum may rest happy) is on full display here.

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2019/08/26/why-they-hate-china-2/

    Some of the critical comments represent the tectonic shift of recent thought. A lot of people with libertarian instinct have learned that their instinctual worry about being murdered as a Kulak by communists was less about economics and more about communism being just one tool of Jews to liberate you, as a non-Jewish white guy, from your stuff. And that the cultural marxism that we see today is yet another Jewish creation to do basically the same thing.

    If that is the case, then let’s worry more about the preservation of our stuff and less about teh racism of teh yellow peril because we are concerned that the noble capitalism of China might be impinged.

  73. Anonymous[334] • Disclaimer says:
    @countenance
    I think the American jihad against hydroxychloroquine doesn't have that much to do with TDS. I think the bigger cause is more practical -- hydroxychloroquine is off-patent, and the American pharmaceutical industry would rather want a widespread drug treatment to be on-patent. Therefore, the industry is winding up its bought and paid for politicians, and the media sources it back door influences via advertising accounts for prescription drugs, to agitate against hydroxychloroquine.

    Surprise, surprise!

    From Reuters this morning, an article about (expensive!) remdesivir.

    Data on Gilead drug raises hopes in pandemic fight, Fauci calls it ‘highly significant’

    The top U.S. infectious disease official said Gilead Sciences Inc’s experimental antiviral drug remdesivir will become the standard of care for COVID-19 after early results from a key clinical trial on Wednesday showed it helped patients recover more quickly from the illness caused by the coronavirus.
    . . .
    patients given remdesivir recovered 31% faster than those given a placebo, were hailed by Dr. Anthony Fauci as “highly significant.”
    . . .
    This will be the standard of care,” he said, adding “the FDA … is working with Gilead to figure out mechanisms to make this easily available to those who need it.”
    . . .
    sending its shares up more than 7%.
    . . .
    early results from its 1,063-patient trial show that hospitalized COVID-19 patients given remdesivir recovered in 11 days, compared to 15 days for patients given a placebo.
    . . .
    8% of patients given the drug died, compared with 11.6% in the placebo group – but the difference was not statistically significant so may not be due to Gilead’s drug.
    . . .
    Gilead also provided data on a study in severe COVID-19 patients it has conducted in dozens of medical centers, which does not have a placebo comparison but tested the drug under five-day and 10-day regimens.
    . . .
    In that 397-patient trial, Gilead said 62% of patients treated early with remdesivir were discharged from the hospital, compared with 49% of patients who were treated later in the course of the infection.

    But text doesn’t do this justice, you have to watch the video of Fauci blatantly shilling for this experimental drug to get the full effect. Trump then dumps cold water on him with a simple question

  74. Anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    Zinc wasn’t present in the retro-studies cited by the media. Researchers cherry-picked existing data (wasn’t a live study, used already-gathered-patient-info with no controls) for azithromycin and hydroxychloriquine.

    The touted treatment by that world reknown French doctor included zinc. Nobody in the study had the zinc, and that wasn’t mentioned. The patients were also pretty far along, not near the beginning of the infection. Basically a rigged study. A great article by a real medical doctor at “Americanthinker.com” detailed the whole affair. This reader came away thanking the doctor (might have been Brian Joondeph, cant remember), and exasperated beyond belief at the MSM (they’d lie about water being wet man, I swear).

  75. @Philip Owen
    It may hold back SARS-CoV-2. The issue is that the dose level to be effective kills more people from heart conditions than it saves from the virus. In the original French study, 30 finished the course and got better. (But 97% of people get better anyway). One didn't finish because he died. He wasn't counted. Two became too ill to continue treatment so were not counted. Two had such severe side effects that the stopped taking it. One left the area. The drug needs to save more people from the 3% than it kills in the 97% to be considered a remote possibility.

    Particularly in Dr. Raoult’s therapy, azithromycin is an element (originally it was used in conjunction with hydroxychloroquine alone, but he subsequently added zinc to the treatment). Thus, any side effects manifesting through cardiac problems could be instead tied to the AZT.

    Here is a link to a comment in a thread at the Conservative Tree House from a retired doctor who makes the point that the family of antibiotics of which AZT is a member have been known for years to be linked to just such problems. The comment is worthy of a close reading.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/04/21/fauci-resurfaces-nih-panel-recommends-against-hydroxychloroquine-treatment/comment-page-3/#comment-8111040

    Many other useful drugs also have these side effects, and consequently this is factored into the care given to patients who are receiving these drugs in the form of increased monitoring to detect problems at their onset. There is no reason not to use these drugs if such vigilance is exercised. Further, there are other families of antibiotics which do not exhibit these side effects that could be substituted if the therapy is a “cocktail” of HCQ, some antibiotic from another family, and potentially zinc.

    So these cardiac effects may have nothing to do with HCQ. Gastric issues, diarrhea, are associated with HCQ, but so far as I know, not heart issues.

  76. @Philip Owen
    It may hold back SARS-CoV-2. The issue is that the dose level to be effective kills more people from heart conditions than it saves from the virus. In the original French study, 30 finished the course and got better. (But 97% of people get better anyway). One didn't finish because he died. He wasn't counted. Two became too ill to continue treatment so were not counted. Two had such severe side effects that the stopped taking it. One left the area. The drug needs to save more people from the 3% than it kills in the 97% to be considered a remote possibility.

    if hydroxychloroquine is so dangerous , why are the NY hospitals still giving HCQ to the vast majority of those hospitalized with coronavirus ? are they all quack doctors here in NY and NJ ? Hydroxychloroquine is so widely used in NY that they cannot find any enough patients not taking it to do another drugs study using Pepsid AC (famotidine)

    New York clinical trial testing heartburn medication as coronavirus treatment.
    Patients in the study are being given the heartburn drug intravenously along with hydroxychloroquine at Northwell’s North Shore Hospital, Long Island Jewish Medical Center and Lenox Hill Hospital. The researchers initially wanted to test famotidine on its own, but with so many patients now being treated with hydroxychloroquine, they wouldn’t have had enough test subjects. https://nypost.com/2020/04/26/ny-clinical-trial-testing-heartburn-medication-as-coronavirus-treatment/

  77. @Polynikes
    A gin and tonic a day keeps the kung flu away.

    Make it a double.

  78. anon[419] • Disclaimer says:

    OK

    Find 1,000 or so patients who have Lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis and ate not taking HCQ. See how they are doing with Covid19. The results with the drug seem remarkable. So that sample of patients who did not take the drugs for whatever reason should turn up some more cases and a few deaths unless it is the something about the disease that protected them.

    Surely I’m not the only person thinking of this, so maybe they did it.

  79. A study in France followed 17 lupus patients on hydroxychloroquine long-term who caught the coronavirus. Two died, five recovered, ten were still hospitalized at press time.

    https://ard.bmj.com/content/early/2020/04/24/annrheumdis-2020-217566

    So the drug is not a silver bullet, although hopefully it will work as a prophylaxis and/or as an antiviral given early.

    • Replies: @Dmon
    11 of the 17 patients in the study were also treated with prednisone, a significant immunosuppresant. Doesn't seem like a particularly conclusive test of HCQ.
  80. @Mike in Boston
    A study in France followed 17 lupus patients on hydroxychloroquine long-term who caught the coronavirus. Two died, five recovered, ten were still hospitalized at press time.

    https://ard.bmj.com/content/early/2020/04/24/annrheumdis-2020-217566

    So the drug is not a silver bullet, although hopefully it will work as a prophylaxis and/or as an antiviral given early.

    11 of the 17 patients in the study were also treated with prednisone, a significant immunosuppresant. Doesn’t seem like a particularly conclusive test of HCQ.

  81. One black mark against the article. The translation says:

    The virus needs porphyrins for its survival, probably for its replication, therefore it attacks hemogloblin (the protein that carries oxygen in the blood), in particular the OFR10 and OFR3 proteins attack the beta chain and orf1ab subtracts porphyrin

    The theory, a frightening one, that the coronavirus attacks hemoglobin, was widely circulating early in the pandemic. But for it to be true would require us to throw out a lot of what we think we know about virology. Autopsies from New Orleans as well as a lot of subsequent data show that the lack of oxygenation is because of the virus causing inflammation and blood clots in the lungs.

    To be clear, there are still reasons to be hopeful that hydroxychloroquine may be an effective prophylaxis against or early treatment for the coronavirus.

    For one thing, it’s high on the list of drugs that should work, based on in vitro data.

    For another, there’s a study from South Korea, in which out of 211 hospital patients and staff who took the drug after possibly being exposed, no one caught the virus.

    There’s also that Prevent Senior report from Brazil, in which the 412 patients who agreed to take the drug had about a third the hospitalization rate of the control group, those who called but didn’t want the drug; those who started the drug earlier had an even lower hospitalization rate.

    Sure, there are problems with the report as a study; one Elizabeth Bik launches all the appropriate darts here but some of her criticisms are not fair-minded:

    – She proposes that a majority of the controls might have had conditions other than COVID-19 (never mind that this was during a global COVID-19 pandemic) but does not discuss the fact that in any case the controls needed hospitalization more often on average than the treatment group, so if her hypothesis is true, then what is this other mystery disease going around Brazil that is worse than COVID-19 treated with HCQ?

    – She complains that not every single subject was tested (never mind the extreme shortage of test kits, and the fact that, as the authors pointed out, false negative rates for the tests in Brazil were pretty high)

    – She makes a huge deal out of the study starting before “ethical approval had been obtained”. I mean, come on, we’re talking about prescribing a drug that everyone, including the WHO, considered safe until it got politicized, not about some wild and crazy gene therapy.

    I’m not sure if this is TDS or just the refusal of people with a certain mindset to accept anything less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt when, in the middle of a pandemic, you can’t do perfect ironclad science and all you could reasonably hope for would be a preponderance of the evidence. As far as I’m concerned the preponderance of the evidence leans slightly towards hydroxychloroquine but I’m anxious to see what larger trials turn up.

  82. @Polynikes
    Still spiking the numbers to make your case, eh? All excess mortality can not be assumed to be covid. The lockdowns have had a deleterious effect on health itself. And the lockdowns may have caused some of the worst transmission.

    As Michael Levit pointed out on Twitter, those comparisons are cooked in that article. They cherry picked countries. In italys case they cherry picked the hardest hit region. And of course they only used recent years. Even so some countries are in line with their average flu season, and others are up to almost twice a bad (not 10-50x worse as you have claimed). Making comparisons back 20 or 60 years shows this is in line with historically really bad bouts with the flu.

    We give you permission to keep freaking out, though.

    “All excess mortality can not be assumed to be covid.”

    Correlation isn’t causation, but it’s the way to bet. And some of that mortality will be because of cancelled operations etc.

    The lockdowns have had a deleterious effect on health itself.”

    Any numbers/evidence? I’m sure its affected mental health, but that doesn’t immediately impact death rates. A&E departments are deserted, fewer fights, car crashes etc, so its not all one way either.

    “In italys case they cherry picked the hardest hit region.”

    Italy have only done the data for the North.

    “And of course they only used recent years… making comparisons back 20 or 60 years shows this is in line with historically really bad bouts with the flu.”

    This is your only valid criticism, but take it up with the FT, not me. I’m well aware of 1958 and 1968, thank you. There was a good LRB piece on the 1958 flu from a doctor who was at St Thomas’s (of Boris fame) at the time. Certainly the UK was a lot more phlegmatic about deaths in those days, every adult had lived through WW2.

    “(not 10-50x worse as you have claimed)” – I made no such claim.

  83. By now you can bet that whatever elites are publicly saying about hydroxychloroquine.
    they are privately taking it. How do we get our hands on this drug?

  84. We all know that Hydroxychloroquine is dangerous and extremely high risk for heart related events as mainstream has stated this time and time again.

    Just check out this pre-covid19 study from Massachusetts General Hospital and Boston MA hospital stating that those on long term hydroxychloroquine have a 17% reduced risk of cardiovascular incidents . Oh wait.

    https://acrabstracts.org/abstract/hydroxychloroquine-use-and-cardiovascular-events-among-patients-with-systemic-lupus-erythematosus-and-rheumatoid-arthritis/

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