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From the New York Times:

Soccer Star Rapinoe Kneels During National Anthem
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS SEPT. 5, 2016, 12:30 A.M. E.D.T.

CHICAGO — U.S. soccer star Megan Rapinoe knelt during the national anthem Sunday night before the Seattle Reign’s game against the Chicago Red Stars “in a little nod” to NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick.

Kaepernick’s refusal to stand for the national anthem to protest racial injustice and minority oppression came to public notice when he remained seated on the bench before a preseason game against Green Bay. On Thursday night in San Diego, he and safety Eric Reid knelt during the anthem before a game against the Chargers.

“It was very intentional,” Rapinoe told American Soccer Now after Seattle’s 2-2 tie in the National Women’s Soccer League game. “It was a little nod to Kaepernick and everything that he’s standing for right now. I think it’s actually pretty disgusting the way he was treated and the way that a lot of the media has covered it and made it about something that it absolutely isn’t. We need to have a more thoughtful, two-sided conversation about racial issues in this country.

“Being a gay American, I know what it means to look at the flag and not have it protect all of your liberties. It was something small that I could do and something that I plan to keep doing in the future and hopefully spark some meaningful conversation around it. It’s important to have white people stand in support of people of color on this. We don’t need to be the leading voice, of course, but standing in support of them is something that’s really powerful.”

The irony of course is that nationalism is the only reason anybody cares about women’s soccer as a spectator sport. Every four years, Americans go nuts in a frenzy of feminist patriotic chauvinism over the American women’s team in the World Cup.

But nobody cares at all about the women’s professional league as this picture of a National Women’s Soccer League game in America’s third biggest city graphically demonstrates. People like to root for men athletes claiming to represent your city or state because it triggers atavistic territorial urges, but women’s professional team sports have been repeated failures because nobody sees women as defenders of the home turf.

This only works at the national level where women athletes are considered exemplars of the superiority of the American way of life.

What women soccer players should do instead of trying to create a city-based league is just have the American national team barnstorm against a team of evil foreigners — call it Team Putin. That would make a lot more money than the NWSL.

 
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  1. Great headline and I didn’t realize that a NWSL (National Women’s Soccer League) game could have less (and much less) attendance than a WNBA game – which had its worst attendance record recorded in 2015. Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States, it’s no wonder that the current model of the NWSL is such an abysmal failure. And BTW, minor league baseball games get a hell of a lot more fans in much smaller markets.

    • Replies: @meh
    @Bubba


    Great headline and I didn’t realize that a NWSL (National Women’s Soccer League) game could have less (and much less) attendance than a WNBA game – which had its worst attendance record recorded in 2015. Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States, it’s no wonder that the current model of the NWSL is such an abysmal failure. And BTW, minor league baseball games get a hell of a lot more fans in much smaller markets.
     
    "Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States"

    wat?

    I take it you don't attend many (or, let's be honest, any) pro soccer games in the USA (MLS, NASL, USL, PDL, NPSL, etc); I mean local pro soccer club teams, not international friendlies or international tournaments between national teams where you get a lot of Hispanics supporting their national teams. Trust me, your assumption about Hispanic soccer support in the USA is wrong.

    There are some Hispanics who support local pro soccer clubs in the USA, but their numbers and influence are greatly exaggerated; they tend to support clubs in Europe or Latin America, not USA clubs. They are not "the basis of fans for soccer in the United States".

    Pro club soccer (MLS, NASL, etc) relies mainly on white "soccer moms and dads" and their kids in youth soccer, and the "20-40 somethings" urban white hipsters for support; ethnic soccer fans (of whom Hispanics are the largest, but not only group) exist and are important, too, but they are not "the basis" of fan support.

    And no, not even the hipsters care about women's pro soccer. They may virtue signal for it but few buy tickets for it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BenjaminL

  2. I was under the impression that lesbianism in sports was mostly confined to women’s basketball. Maybe its more widespread than I had thought (or hoped against). But even women’s professional basketball seems to be a financial deadbeat – its core fandom being hard core lesbians.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @dan hayes

    Why did you have that impression? The only professional women's sport I can of that isn't considered to be over represented with lesbians is tennis.

    Replies: @Jim Sweeney

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @dan hayes

    Women's soccer is about 75-80% straight and about 20-25% gay. With the retirement of legendary Forward Abby Wombach (who is also a lesbian, though she seldom ever made it a public issue), that means that the most famous lesbian star player on the US National Team is Megan Rapinoe. Unlike Wambach, who tended to take a more of an "Don't ask me and I won't tell you" approach, because she wanted the focus and attention to be on the US National Team and Women's Soccer in general, as well as being proud to be an American (think of a female Peter Thiel), Rapinoe welcomes controversy of all kinds based on her sexual orientation (during the '12 Olympics she did some commentary for the gay magazine Out and has never shied away from making her orientation a public matter). If Rapinoe wasn't such a great midfielder, she wouldn't be getting the NYT treatment. After all, about ten yrs ago the US National Team had a lesbian player, all tattooed up from Hawaii Natasha something or other, who disappeared without much of a trace. The reason being, she couldn't play soccer very well. So the only reason Rapinoe is getting attention is because of her athletic ability as well as her willingness to be used as a mouthpiece for the narrative.

    And of course, with Hope Solo having been basically banned for 6 months from US Soccer and her contract terminated, there is now a void for any universal face of US Women's Soccer.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @dan hayes

    Watch college softball.

    , @Marty T
    @dan hayes

    There are lesbians at the highest levels of all women's sports. Even tennis has some (though probably fewer than it used to).

    I think of softball as even more lesbian than women's basketball on a collegiate level. Those two sports are probably the most lesbian by percentage.

    Replies: @JohnnyGeo

    , @Expletive Deleted
    @dan hayes

    To get to the top flight in UK and Euro women's football, being the daddy in a same-sex relationship is par for the course.
    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/meet-14-openly-gay-or-bisexual-soccer-stars-womens-world-cup090615/#gs.Z8BJPfs
    I'd be startled to meet a top lady footeriste who wasn't.
    Fine. Good luck to 'em. No football fans watch it, or have a clue about who these clodhopping, wheezy gym mistresses are. Apart from when they blag their way onto the BBC griping for "moar munney!!" and, "moar fame and telly!!".
    To which the answer is invariably a big fat "What for? Any pub team off Hackney Marshes could stuff you".

  3. Very funny Steve. People need to understand that the USA soccer team does so well because in most of the world no one cares about women’s soccer.

    In most of the world, soccer is the THE NO. 1 men’s sport. And the gap between that and women’s soccer is so large no cares about it. Women – in those countries – don’t want to play it, and men don’t want to watch it.

    Imagine if the USA was to enter a women’s (American) football team in the Olympics or a women’s hardball/baseball team. Who would care? It would be seen as a joke.

    Even as a causal ‘murican fan, i can see the gap in ability. The women are slow, can’t kick very far or very fast, and can’t jump. I”m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women’s team without any difficulty.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @Honesthughgrant


    I”m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women’s team without any difficulty.
     
    People who know soccer say that a good boy's high school team could beat the U.S. Women's team. Apparently there was a scrimmage with an elite boy's high school age team that was ended early because the Women were not doing well.

    Replies: @WhatEvvs, @The Only Catholic Unionist, @Dr. Doom and Gloom

    , @BB753
    @Honesthughgrant

    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women's team. No contest there, same as in rugby. Soccer requires not only skill and speed and stamina, it's also a very physical game where strength makes a great difference. There's constant physical contact, pushing and shoving, tackles, etc.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan

    , @SteveRogers42
    @Honesthughgrant

    Any MLS "academy" boys U-18 team would take the USA national women's team apart.

    , @namae nanka
    @Honesthughgrant

    You don't have to reach to English League sides,


    Aaron Heifitz, the publicist for the U.S. national women’s soccer team, described how the women’s squad performs against the best youth club players in Southern California: “The boys’ 13s we can handle pretty consistently, but when the boys start really developing at 14, and especially 15, that’s when you start to see real separation and they pass even the best women’s players. They’re just bigger, stronger, and faster.”

     

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/225402/olympian-political-correctness-todd-gallagher

    And this with the women's team doped up halfway to manhood.
    , @AndrewR
    @Honesthughgrant

    I bet the average boy's high school team could beat the US national women's team.

    , @Kyle
    @Honesthughgrant

    In most of the world people don't care about women. Nobody signs their girls up for little league soccer. Even Europe doesn't do that.

  4. @dan hayes
    I was under the impression that lesbianism in sports was mostly confined to women's basketball. Maybe its more widespread than I had thought (or hoped against). But even women's professional basketball seems to be a financial deadbeat - its core fandom being hard core lesbians.

    Replies: @Barnard, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @ScarletNumber, @Marty T, @Expletive Deleted

    Why did you have that impression? The only professional women’s sport I can of that isn’t considered to be over represented with lesbians is tennis.

    • Replies: @Jim Sweeney
    @Barnard

    Tennis is and has been loaded with lesbians starting with Billie Jean King and Martina through the ranks. A friend of mine quit a good pro tennis job once as watching the lesbians prey on newbies on the tour got too hard to watch.

    Replies: @sb

  5. Men like to root for professional sports teams, because seeing these virtuoso displays of skill and athleticism reminds men of what they once dreamed of for themselves. I can still remember all the details of heroic soccer goals I scored in school matches as an 11-year-old.

    I have watched a few top level women’s soccer games because my niece was a top level college, international, and Olympic player and women’s soccer is enjoyable enough if you have a family member playing, but not much of a spectacle otherwise.

    US women have had a lot of success in international competition mainly because women’s soccer was organized in colleges from an early date compared to most countries, and possibly because a lot of women in the US are more like men. My niece played a college game in Florida where one of her opponents was a tall blonde pony-tailed Abby Wambach, later to become one of the most famous of women soccer players, but last time I saw a picture of Wambach, she seemed to have morphed into a man. My niece is still a woman.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @Jonathan Mason


    My niece played a college game in Florida where one of her opponents was a tall blonde pony-tailed Abby Wambach, later to become one of the most famous of women soccer players, but last time I saw a picture of Wambach, she seemed to have morphed into a man. My niece is still a woman.
     
    Well, at least Abby Wambach's "wife" is somewhat pretty and feminine. So there's that.
    , @ATX Hipster
    @Jonathan Mason


    Men like to root for professional sports teams, because seeing these virtuoso displays of skill and athleticism reminds men of what they once dreamed of for themselves.
     
    That's why it's so funny hearing defenders of the WNBA arguing it should be more popular because the women use better teamwork and fundamentals, as if sports fans care.
  6. The Chicago Red Stars? Who knew?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @pyrrhus

    They used to play in Murmansk, but then relocated to Chicago.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @antipater_1

    , @Clifford Brown
    @pyrrhus

    The Red Stars is a reference to the Chicago Flag which features four red stars representing four critical events in Chicago's history. While not nearly as ubiquitous as the State of Texas flag, the Chicago flag is a commonly used to symbolize Chicago civic pride.

    Replies: @Wency

  7. @pyrrhus
    The Chicago Red Stars? Who knew?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Clifford Brown

    They used to play in Murmansk, but then relocated to Chicago.

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger
    @Steve Sailer

    When the free citizens of Murmansk voted down the proposed "Stolichnaya Dome" the writing was on the wall.

    , @antipater_1
    @Steve Sailer

    Are you sure it was Murmansk? I googled it and it said Magnitogorsk.

  8. Is Rapinoe the one that was on TV ads for Nike earlier in the summer? Wasn’t Nike trying to set her up to be a big star coming out of the Olympics so they could cash in on selling lots of soccer gear to little girls? How’d that work out?

    Or do I have her confused with somebody else?

  9. @Honesthughgrant
    Very funny Steve. People need to understand that the USA soccer team does so well because in most of the world no one cares about women's soccer.

    In most of the world, soccer is the THE NO. 1 men's sport. And the gap between that and women's soccer is so large no cares about it. Women - in those countries - don't want to play it, and men don't want to watch it.

    Imagine if the USA was to enter a women's (American) football team in the Olympics or a women's hardball/baseball team. Who would care? It would be seen as a joke.

    Even as a causal 'murican fan, i can see the gap in ability. The women are slow, can't kick very far or very fast, and can't jump. I"m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women's team without any difficulty.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @BB753, @SteveRogers42, @namae nanka, @AndrewR, @Kyle

    I”m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women’s team without any difficulty.

    People who know soccer say that a good boy’s high school team could beat the U.S. Women’s team. Apparently there was a scrimmage with an elite boy’s high school age team that was ended early because the Women were not doing well.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    @Alec Leamas

    An English (or maybe Scottish, don't remember) 15 and under team beat the Australian women's team, the Matildas, 7-0, a year or so back. Google it.

    , @The Only Catholic Unionist
    @Alec Leamas

    The Australian Matildas (national women's team) was thrashed 7-0 by a U15 boy's elite travelling squad. http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/news/matiladas-australia-womens-national-team-loses-boys-teenagers-jets-newcastle-rio-olympics-uswnt/dw1ov2sxatlz1bl51npzuuyi9

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @The most deplorable one, @James Kabala

    , @Dr. Doom and Gloom
    @Alec Leamas

    High school is about the good high school age boys become competitive with elite women in swimming and track. Women fare worse if upper body strength (e.g. ice hockey) is needed.

  10. @dan hayes
    I was under the impression that lesbianism in sports was mostly confined to women's basketball. Maybe its more widespread than I had thought (or hoped against). But even women's professional basketball seems to be a financial deadbeat - its core fandom being hard core lesbians.

    Replies: @Barnard, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @ScarletNumber, @Marty T, @Expletive Deleted

    Women’s soccer is about 75-80% straight and about 20-25% gay. With the retirement of legendary Forward Abby Wombach (who is also a lesbian, though she seldom ever made it a public issue), that means that the most famous lesbian star player on the US National Team is Megan Rapinoe. Unlike Wambach, who tended to take a more of an “Don’t ask me and I won’t tell you” approach, because she wanted the focus and attention to be on the US National Team and Women’s Soccer in general, as well as being proud to be an American (think of a female Peter Thiel), Rapinoe welcomes controversy of all kinds based on her sexual orientation (during the ’12 Olympics she did some commentary for the gay magazine Out and has never shied away from making her orientation a public matter). If Rapinoe wasn’t such a great midfielder, she wouldn’t be getting the NYT treatment. After all, about ten yrs ago the US National Team had a lesbian player, all tattooed up from Hawaii Natasha something or other, who disappeared without much of a trace. The reason being, she couldn’t play soccer very well. So the only reason Rapinoe is getting attention is because of her athletic ability as well as her willingness to be used as a mouthpiece for the narrative.

    And of course, with Hope Solo having been basically banned for 6 months from US Soccer and her contract terminated, there is now a void for any universal face of US Women’s Soccer.

  11. @Jonathan Mason
    Men like to root for professional sports teams, because seeing these virtuoso displays of skill and athleticism reminds men of what they once dreamed of for themselves. I can still remember all the details of heroic soccer goals I scored in school matches as an 11-year-old.

    I have watched a few top level women's soccer games because my niece was a top level college, international, and Olympic player and women's soccer is enjoyable enough if you have a family member playing, but not much of a spectacle otherwise.

    US women have had a lot of success in international competition mainly because women's soccer was organized in colleges from an early date compared to most countries, and possibly because a lot of women in the US are more like men. My niece played a college game in Florida where one of her opponents was a tall blonde pony-tailed Abby Wambach, later to become one of the most famous of women soccer players, but last time I saw a picture of Wambach, she seemed to have morphed into a man. My niece is still a woman.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @ATX Hipster

    My niece played a college game in Florida where one of her opponents was a tall blonde pony-tailed Abby Wambach, later to become one of the most famous of women soccer players, but last time I saw a picture of Wambach, she seemed to have morphed into a man. My niece is still a woman.

    Well, at least Abby Wambach’s “wife” is somewhat pretty and feminine. So there’s that.

  12. I wish their name was “Soccer: Women’s Professional League”. That would be funnier than NWSL. Granted, women’s pro sports is already a laugh.

  13. @Honesthughgrant
    Very funny Steve. People need to understand that the USA soccer team does so well because in most of the world no one cares about women's soccer.

    In most of the world, soccer is the THE NO. 1 men's sport. And the gap between that and women's soccer is so large no cares about it. Women - in those countries - don't want to play it, and men don't want to watch it.

    Imagine if the USA was to enter a women's (American) football team in the Olympics or a women's hardball/baseball team. Who would care? It would be seen as a joke.

    Even as a causal 'murican fan, i can see the gap in ability. The women are slow, can't kick very far or very fast, and can't jump. I"m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women's team without any difficulty.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @BB753, @SteveRogers42, @namae nanka, @AndrewR, @Kyle

    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women’s team. No contest there, same as in rugby. Soccer requires not only skill and speed and stamina, it’s also a very physical game where strength makes a great difference. There’s constant physical contact, pushing and shoving, tackles, etc.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @BB753


    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women’s team. No contest there, same as in rugby.
     
    Intergender soccer is one thing, but I doubt many male rugby players down to the club level would even step on the pitch with women. To properly play the match would necessarily require visiting extraordinary physical violence on the women that they would very simply not be able to absorb. Brain damage, spinal injuries and death would be distinct possibilities.

    Replies: @BB753, @SteveRogers42

    , @PiltdownMan
    @BB753

    Semi-professional English regional league team? See 21. The Only Catholic Unionist's post.

    Replies: @BB753

  14. Of course, ESPN dutifully reported Rapinoe’s protest in their crawler all day yesterday like it was big breaking news.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Desiderius


    Of course, ESPN dutifully reported Rapinoe’s protest in their crawler all day yesterday like it was big breaking news.

     

    Not surprising. ESPN's website has morphed into Deadspin Lite; it's pushing all social justice, all the time. I'm disgusted at how infrequently its headline stories these days have anything to do with actual sporting contests. It had been sliding for years into soft SJW-ism, but it then took a huge lurch leftward when they changed the site layout some months ago.

    Replies: @Ivy, @ogunsiron

  15. @Steve Sailer
    @pyrrhus

    They used to play in Murmansk, but then relocated to Chicago.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @antipater_1

    When the free citizens of Murmansk voted down the proposed “Stolichnaya Dome” the writing was on the wall.

    • LOL: MEH 0910
  16. @Alec Leamas
    @Honesthughgrant


    I”m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women’s team without any difficulty.
     
    People who know soccer say that a good boy's high school team could beat the U.S. Women's team. Apparently there was a scrimmage with an elite boy's high school age team that was ended early because the Women were not doing well.

    Replies: @WhatEvvs, @The Only Catholic Unionist, @Dr. Doom and Gloom

    An English (or maybe Scottish, don’t remember) 15 and under team beat the Australian women’s team, the Matildas, 7-0, a year or so back. Google it.

  17. this woman should find another way to protest if she finds this country so awful:

    {kneel
    nēl/
    verb

    be in or assume a position in which the body is supported by a knee or the knees, as when praying or showing submission.
    “they knelt down and prayed”}

    • Replies: @Olorin
    @newrouter

    Indeed. One wonders what she is showing submission TO in that posture.


    Being a gay American, I know what it means to look at the flag and not have it protect all of your liberties.
     
    Oh right. That.

    Replies: @Forbes

  18. …hopefully spark some meaningful conversation around it…

    We’ve been talking ‘meaningful’ about all these issues without realizing that talk is cheap, and it doesn’t bring about change when change is not desired by the majority – anyway, what should be changed? Some Magic Dust sprinkled over the unbelievers and disbelievers that will satisfy the minorities that are just what they are – minorities? Make the majority suffer some grief for some imagined slight? I, for one, just love blacks and gays and transgendered folk because when we really get down to basics, we all want the same things, admire the same things, worship the same things, eat the same foods – all that meaningless stuff, you know. You know. The truth is most people who are different aren’t going to change, come hell or high water. And the talk Rapinoe wants is talk that will make her ‘feel’ good about the choices she has made. And, no, I don’t have to like her or want to associate with her.

    Enough talk, STFU, get out of my face, leave me be.

  19. Being a gay American, I know what it means to look at the flag and not have it protect all of your liberties -Rapinoe

    Interesting line of thought, as a conservative in this country, I feel the same way. I doubt that the left feels anything but glee over our suffering though.

    Kapernick is a Muslim traitor, that should be the rhetoric coming from every conservative. That it is not, shows how doomed we are.

  20. Pat Casey says:

    Being a gay American, I know what it means to look at the flag and not have it protect all of your liberties.

    What the hell is she talking about? Obviously the point of marriage is not to liberate anyone, except if its binding terms liberate you like you like some SandM. Which brings us to the beaver buzz saw: no woman has ever been cited much less arrested for scissoring, and no one ever says that. They been piggybackin on broke back mountain bros forever. Nor does it get called gay porn when the camera’s rolling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdS6HFQ_LUc&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKdS6HFQ_LUc&has_verified=1

  21. @Alec Leamas
    @Honesthughgrant


    I”m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women’s team without any difficulty.
     
    People who know soccer say that a good boy's high school team could beat the U.S. Women's team. Apparently there was a scrimmage with an elite boy's high school age team that was ended early because the Women were not doing well.

    Replies: @WhatEvvs, @The Only Catholic Unionist, @Dr. Doom and Gloom

    The Australian Matildas (national women’s team) was thrashed 7-0 by a U15 boy’s elite travelling squad. http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/news/matiladas-australia-womens-national-team-loses-boys-teenagers-jets-newcastle-rio-olympics-uswnt/dw1ov2sxatlz1bl51npzuuyi9

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    That's 13 and 14 year old boys. Makes you wonder why they'd even agree to such matches, given the probability that they'll be thumped and embarrassed, and the point of women's soccer is to make women feel empowerful.

    Replies: @ogunsiron

    , @PiltdownMan
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    I think it is worth noting that the Matildas were ranked #5 in the world by FIFA when that happened earlier this year. They are now ranked #7.

    , @The most deplorable one
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    This is to be expected.

    Males have 90% more upper body strength, on average, than women and 60% more lower body strength.

    They are also, on average faster than women. An U15 boys team would probably be about 75% of the ability of a normal male team. The women are still outclassed.

    , @James Kabala
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    In individual timed sports the gap seems to be much less absurd. The top woman in the most recent Boston Marathon finished 29th overall, which means she beat thousands of men. Katie Ledecky has (supposedly - not sure if this has been fully documented) beaten men (not Phelps-level men, but men) in practice heats. Why is it so much worse in team sports?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SteveRogers42, @Triumph104

  22. “It’s important to have white people stand in support of people of color on this. We don’t need to be the leading voice, of course…”

    Unfortunately, this is how most of the white Millennials I know think. Happy to be junior partners in their own dispossession.

    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    @Paul Mendez

    I very foolishly predicted a few years ago, to myself, that millenials, having been raised with black classmates, acquaintances, friends, enemies, pop idols, etc would be the white generation that no one would ever be able to be convince that they were evil white racists. I thought that white guilt would never work with those young people. Because they'd know what's up. Older whites who never grew around blacks can possibly get gaslighted into thinking of themselves as the oppressors of black people, but surely not the millenials, right ? So wrong!

    I figured that most millenials would be able to think of a black person that they get along with AND of black people that they had terrible experiences with. I figured that when told that they're racist and responsible for black problems, they would all be able to reply something like "i know black people and I know I'm not responsible for their problems". Either I overestimated the extent to which white millenials actually interact with black people or I grossly understimated the brainwashing powers of the media.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Paul Mendez

    Paul, Ironic that after taking a knee (not actually kneeling) she said ....."Its important to have white people STAND in support of POC on this." Megan, shut up and sit down!

  23. @BB753
    @Honesthughgrant

    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women's team. No contest there, same as in rugby. Soccer requires not only skill and speed and stamina, it's also a very physical game where strength makes a great difference. There's constant physical contact, pushing and shoving, tackles, etc.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan

    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women’s team. No contest there, same as in rugby.

    Intergender soccer is one thing, but I doubt many male rugby players down to the club level would even step on the pitch with women. To properly play the match would necessarily require visiting extraordinary physical violence on the women that they would very simply not be able to absorb. Brain damage, spinal injuries and death would be distinct possibilities.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Alec Leamas

    Rugby isn't quite as brutal as football. But the average male rugby player is probably about twice as big and ten times stronger than a female rugby player.

    , @SteveRogers42
    @Alec Leamas

    Angelina Jolie and Mila Jovovich beat up 200-pound Spetznaz commandos and hordes of zombies all the time. Check your privilege,

  24. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    @Alec Leamas

    The Australian Matildas (national women's team) was thrashed 7-0 by a U15 boy's elite travelling squad. http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/news/matiladas-australia-womens-national-team-loses-boys-teenagers-jets-newcastle-rio-olympics-uswnt/dw1ov2sxatlz1bl51npzuuyi9

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @The most deplorable one, @James Kabala

    That’s 13 and 14 year old boys. Makes you wonder why they’d even agree to such matches, given the probability that they’ll be thumped and embarrassed, and the point of women’s soccer is to make women feel empowerful.

    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    @Alec Leamas

    given the probability that they’ll be thumped and embarrassed
    ----
    It's possible that they did not think that they'd lose.
    Quite possible.

  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    People like to root for men athletes claiming to represent your city or state because it triggers atavistic territorial urges, but women’s professional team sports have been repeated failures because nobody sees women as defenders of the home turf.

    This only works at the national level where women athletes are considered exemplars of the superiority of the American way of life.

    I don’t think people actually care about American women’s soccer in international competition. It’s just ridiculously overhyped every few years by the media. The Little League World Series that’s on TV for a few days every summer is more exciting and a better display of sporting prowess than adult women’s soccer, which along with women’s basketball is just terrible.

    More fundamental than territorial urges is that men can actually play sports and display sporting ability.

    • Agree: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @27 year old
    @Anonymous

    The little league world series is more exciting than adult male professional baseball

  26. @pyrrhus
    The Chicago Red Stars? Who knew?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Clifford Brown

    The Red Stars is a reference to the Chicago Flag which features four red stars representing four critical events in Chicago’s history. While not nearly as ubiquitous as the State of Texas flag, the Chicago flag is a commonly used to symbolize Chicago civic pride.

    • Replies: @Wency
    @Clifford Brown

    *Not as ubiquitous as the Texas flag...*

    Few flags are. I'd like to see the numbers, but having lived in TX, I'm confident that more Texas flags are printed each year than those of the 49 other states combined, by a comfortable margin. You could throw city flags in there as well without changing the math much. You might even be able to throw in the Confederate flag and find the TX flag still wins.

    It's probably also a fair guess that more U.S. flags are printed each year than those of all other countries on Earth combined. But then, there's a line that foreigners tend to view America as Americans view Texas, so this analogy lines up.

  27. @Alec Leamas
    @BB753


    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women’s team. No contest there, same as in rugby.
     
    Intergender soccer is one thing, but I doubt many male rugby players down to the club level would even step on the pitch with women. To properly play the match would necessarily require visiting extraordinary physical violence on the women that they would very simply not be able to absorb. Brain damage, spinal injuries and death would be distinct possibilities.

    Replies: @BB753, @SteveRogers42

    Rugby isn’t quite as brutal as football. But the average male rugby player is probably about twice as big and ten times stronger than a female rugby player.

  28. @Steve Sailer
    @pyrrhus

    They used to play in Murmansk, but then relocated to Chicago.

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @antipater_1

    Are you sure it was Murmansk? I googled it and it said Magnitogorsk.

  29. @dan hayes
    I was under the impression that lesbianism in sports was mostly confined to women's basketball. Maybe its more widespread than I had thought (or hoped against). But even women's professional basketball seems to be a financial deadbeat - its core fandom being hard core lesbians.

    Replies: @Barnard, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @ScarletNumber, @Marty T, @Expletive Deleted

    Watch college softball.

  30. They need an equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters’ “Washington Generals”. Maybe the “Moscow Commissars”, or the “Baghdad Bombers”

  31. @Alec Leamas
    @Honesthughgrant


    I”m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women’s team without any difficulty.
     
    People who know soccer say that a good boy's high school team could beat the U.S. Women's team. Apparently there was a scrimmage with an elite boy's high school age team that was ended early because the Women were not doing well.

    Replies: @WhatEvvs, @The Only Catholic Unionist, @Dr. Doom and Gloom

    High school is about the good high school age boys become competitive with elite women in swimming and track. Women fare worse if upper body strength (e.g. ice hockey) is needed.

  32. @dan hayes
    I was under the impression that lesbianism in sports was mostly confined to women's basketball. Maybe its more widespread than I had thought (or hoped against). But even women's professional basketball seems to be a financial deadbeat - its core fandom being hard core lesbians.

    Replies: @Barnard, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @ScarletNumber, @Marty T, @Expletive Deleted

    There are lesbians at the highest levels of all women’s sports. Even tennis has some (though probably fewer than it used to).

    I think of softball as even more lesbian than women’s basketball on a collegiate level. Those two sports are probably the most lesbian by percentage.

    • Replies: @JohnnyGeo
    @Marty T

    A female acquaintance of mine attended a college that had recently had a lesbian sex scandal on the softball team. She was advised to try out for the weightlifting team to avoid the appearance that she might be gay.

  33. @Desiderius
    Of course, ESPN dutifully reported Rapinoe's protest in their crawler all day yesterday like it was big breaking news.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Of course, ESPN dutifully reported Rapinoe’s protest in their crawler all day yesterday like it was big breaking news.

    Not surprising. ESPN’s website has morphed into Deadspin Lite; it’s pushing all social justice, all the time. I’m disgusted at how infrequently its headline stories these days have anything to do with actual sporting contests. It had been sliding for years into soft SJW-ism, but it then took a huge lurch leftward when they changed the site layout some months ago.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    The decline at ESPN dates from the Disney acquisition and influence. Some companies are better off as independent entities. Others fit into the Vietnam era saying, We had to destroy the network to save it.

    , @ogunsiron
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    ESPN’s website has morphed into Deadspin Lite
    ---
    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that "Soldier of fortune" is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

    Replies: @Anon87, @The Last Real Calvinist

  34. My guess is with Rapinoe at the end of her pro soccer “career” she’s looking towards social justice activism as her next step. I believe she’s the only out lesbo on the US women’s soccer team, though there are probably some others who keep it quiet.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Marty T

    There are, its just that with the retirement of Wambach, Rapinoe is the most famous one who is both out about it and a starter and a somewhat name among soccer fans. Most of the other starters are basically straight (e.g. they have boyfriends or husbands).

    But to be honest, by measure of legitimate superstar/player that has transcended the sport and is mainstream, there's been only three names that have stood out on the US National Team for nearly a decade:

    1. Hope Solo (who is straight)

    2. Mia Hamm (also straight, but she's been retired since 2004)

    3. Every current starting player on the National team with a combined Q rating that doesn't add up to a hill of beans.

    No one else comes close to the publicity and national attention/notoriety/endorsements that Hope Solo has garnered. And for better or worse, the US Federation has hitched their team to her. Now that they've suspended her as well as terminated her contract, US Soccer is back to square one: Not one starting player currently starting on the National team has any major name recognition beyond their most loyal rabid fans. No one. This is actually one time when it can be said that a single player is bigger in stature than the entire sport (US women's soccer).

    The last time this could be plausibly stated would be perhaps in 1920-1927, with a player known as George Herman "Babe" Ruth vs. the entire edifice of MLB. And it is worth noting that with the centennial coming up for the decade of the Roaring Twenties, Babe Ruth is still the one baseball player that every American from about fifteen and older can name.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Penskefile, @Marty T

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Marty T

    Marty, Rapinoe has the Who? factor. So I don't see her becoming a spokesperson of any note. Lots of people know who Kaepernick is.

  35. @Barnard
    @dan hayes

    Why did you have that impression? The only professional women's sport I can of that isn't considered to be over represented with lesbians is tennis.

    Replies: @Jim Sweeney

    Tennis is and has been loaded with lesbians starting with Billie Jean King and Martina through the ranks. A friend of mine quit a good pro tennis job once as watching the lesbians prey on newbies on the tour got too hard to watch.

    • Replies: @sb
    @Jim Sweeney

    I get the feeling that Margaret Court is downplayed as one of the all time tennis greats by the media -particularly the US media - is because she is married, a mother and is a very active Christian with "traditional" attitudes .

    She has a pretty good record -not that the average American would have heard of her

  36. The most deplorable one [AKA "The Fourth Political Theory"] says:

    Perhaps she is trying to distract parents of daughters who are considering involving their daughters in soccer that: The predators go where the prey are.

  37. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Desiderius


    Of course, ESPN dutifully reported Rapinoe’s protest in their crawler all day yesterday like it was big breaking news.

     

    Not surprising. ESPN's website has morphed into Deadspin Lite; it's pushing all social justice, all the time. I'm disgusted at how infrequently its headline stories these days have anything to do with actual sporting contests. It had been sliding for years into soft SJW-ism, but it then took a huge lurch leftward when they changed the site layout some months ago.

    Replies: @Ivy, @ogunsiron

    The decline at ESPN dates from the Disney acquisition and influence. Some companies are better off as independent entities. Others fit into the Vietnam era saying, We had to destroy the network to save it.

  38. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    @Alec Leamas

    The Australian Matildas (national women's team) was thrashed 7-0 by a U15 boy's elite travelling squad. http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/news/matiladas-australia-womens-national-team-loses-boys-teenagers-jets-newcastle-rio-olympics-uswnt/dw1ov2sxatlz1bl51npzuuyi9

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @The most deplorable one, @James Kabala

    I think it is worth noting that the Matildas were ranked #5 in the world by FIFA when that happened earlier this year. They are now ranked #7.

  39. @BB753
    @Honesthughgrant

    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women's team. No contest there, same as in rugby. Soccer requires not only skill and speed and stamina, it's also a very physical game where strength makes a great difference. There's constant physical contact, pushing and shoving, tackles, etc.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan

    Semi-professional English regional league team? See 21. The Only Catholic Unionist’s post.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @PiltdownMan

    Well, I was being charitable, lol. I knew about the Australian team but I didn't know its ranking.
    I've played informal soccer in mixed teams and most of the time I was trying not to hurt the girls on the other team.

  40. The most deplorable one [AKA "The Fourth Political Theory"] says:
    @The Only Catholic Unionist
    @Alec Leamas

    The Australian Matildas (national women's team) was thrashed 7-0 by a U15 boy's elite travelling squad. http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/news/matiladas-australia-womens-national-team-loses-boys-teenagers-jets-newcastle-rio-olympics-uswnt/dw1ov2sxatlz1bl51npzuuyi9

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @The most deplorable one, @James Kabala

    This is to be expected.

    Males have 90% more upper body strength, on average, than women and 60% more lower body strength.

    They are also, on average faster than women. An U15 boys team would probably be about 75% of the ability of a normal male team. The women are still outclassed.

  41. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    @Alec Leamas

    The Australian Matildas (national women's team) was thrashed 7-0 by a U15 boy's elite travelling squad. http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/news/matiladas-australia-womens-national-team-loses-boys-teenagers-jets-newcastle-rio-olympics-uswnt/dw1ov2sxatlz1bl51npzuuyi9

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @The most deplorable one, @James Kabala

    In individual timed sports the gap seems to be much less absurd. The top woman in the most recent Boston Marathon finished 29th overall, which means she beat thousands of men. Katie Ledecky has (supposedly – not sure if this has been fully documented) beaten men (not Phelps-level men, but men) in practice heats. Why is it so much worse in team sports?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @James Kabala

    Every male-female difference multiplies off every other one in good team sports.

    , @SteveRogers42
    @James Kabala

    Size, speed, and strength. Aggressiveness and resistance to injury.

    , @Triumph104
    @James Kabala

    Top marathoners only compete two or three times a year so major competitions like the Boston Marathon only have a few world-level runners and a lot of weekend warriors. The top woman finished 29th overall because few world-levels entered the men's race.

    Far more world-levels enter the Olympic marathon, 155 men started the Rio marathon with 140 finishing. The top woman finished 90th overall.

  42. Somewhat related, in its desperate application of KKKrazy Glue to mend increasingly apparent cracks-

    http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/08/03/487610257/after-pulse-shooting-lgbt-folks-of-color-worry-about-increased-police-attention

    After 49 people were killed at the Pulse nightclub in Florida in June, gay pride marches across the country saw amped-up police presence. Law enforcement agencies shared support for LGBT people on social media and in the press. The NYPD rolled out a cop car decorated with rainbows.

    In recent weeks, activists associated with the Black Lives Matter movement and organizations of LGBT people of color have protested greater law enforcement participation in gay pride parades around the country and have called on others to consider the needs of those vulnerable to police violence and harassment.

    These activists say that while police pledge to protect some in LGBT communities, there are patterns of victimization toward others, especially those who aren’t cisgender and white.

    “After police shot the unarmed black construction worker, there were expressions of fear and concern across the entire community. When the unarmed black sailor was shot, the concern turned to anger. And when the unarmed black Indian Chief was shot, LGBT-aligned Black Lives Matter activists knew they had their cause at last…”

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Abe

    Abe, BLM/Toronto, an almost totally Lesbian group, blockaded the Toronto Pride parade until parade organizers accepted their list of demands, which included no participation by police groups or police officers. And, LOL, to the last lines of your comment. Comedy gold if one remembers the Village People.

  43. @James Kabala
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    In individual timed sports the gap seems to be much less absurd. The top woman in the most recent Boston Marathon finished 29th overall, which means she beat thousands of men. Katie Ledecky has (supposedly - not sure if this has been fully documented) beaten men (not Phelps-level men, but men) in practice heats. Why is it so much worse in team sports?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SteveRogers42, @Triumph104

    Every male-female difference multiplies off every other one in good team sports.

  44. @Marty T
    My guess is with Rapinoe at the end of her pro soccer "career" she's looking towards social justice activism as her next step. I believe she's the only out lesbo on the US women's soccer team, though there are probably some others who keep it quiet.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Buffalo Joe

    There are, its just that with the retirement of Wambach, Rapinoe is the most famous one who is both out about it and a starter and a somewhat name among soccer fans. Most of the other starters are basically straight (e.g. they have boyfriends or husbands).

    But to be honest, by measure of legitimate superstar/player that has transcended the sport and is mainstream, there’s been only three names that have stood out on the US National Team for nearly a decade:

    1. Hope Solo (who is straight)

    2. Mia Hamm (also straight, but she’s been retired since 2004)

    3. Every current starting player on the National team with a combined Q rating that doesn’t add up to a hill of beans.

    No one else comes close to the publicity and national attention/notoriety/endorsements that Hope Solo has garnered. And for better or worse, the US Federation has hitched their team to her. Now that they’ve suspended her as well as terminated her contract, US Soccer is back to square one: Not one starting player currently starting on the National team has any major name recognition beyond their most loyal rabid fans. No one. This is actually one time when it can be said that a single player is bigger in stature than the entire sport (US women’s soccer).

    The last time this could be plausibly stated would be perhaps in 1920-1927, with a player known as George Herman “Babe” Ruth vs. the entire edifice of MLB. And it is worth noting that with the centennial coming up for the decade of the Roaring Twenties, Babe Ruth is still the one baseball player that every American from about fifteen and older can name.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    To further illustrate the point regarding famous MLBers of the '20s, when one says the name "Hornsby", most adults today (at least in the Midwest; South; Northeast) will tend to associate the name with the Hard Cider, and not with the former 2B player for St. Louis. (Irony is that Rogers Horsnby wasn't a drinker throughout most of his life).

    Megan Rapinoe is kind of the Dizzy Dean of the US National Team. Talented, but a bit of a goofy oddball with crazy antics on the field. If she had stayed in the closet she would've been known among her fans as an above average player and nothing more. A previous poster speculated that she may be creating controversy for a future career in SJW. Very possible, especially as she's been very outspoken for half a decade within the LGBT community; its just that now the Narrative via the NYT has deigned to take notice of her and make her relevant.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @Penskefile
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Why do you keep overlooking Alex Morgan? You can't watch a US broadcast of soccer without seeing at least one commercial featuring her. She is more than equal as a successor to Hope Solo

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @ben tillman

    , @Marty T
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Isnt getting rid of Solo addition by subtraction? She's so unlikable I bet many players on the team can't stand her. They need to promote the young and pretty ones like Morgan and Johnston.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Reg Cæsar

  45. @Jonathan Mason
    Men like to root for professional sports teams, because seeing these virtuoso displays of skill and athleticism reminds men of what they once dreamed of for themselves. I can still remember all the details of heroic soccer goals I scored in school matches as an 11-year-old.

    I have watched a few top level women's soccer games because my niece was a top level college, international, and Olympic player and women's soccer is enjoyable enough if you have a family member playing, but not much of a spectacle otherwise.

    US women have had a lot of success in international competition mainly because women's soccer was organized in colleges from an early date compared to most countries, and possibly because a lot of women in the US are more like men. My niece played a college game in Florida where one of her opponents was a tall blonde pony-tailed Abby Wambach, later to become one of the most famous of women soccer players, but last time I saw a picture of Wambach, she seemed to have morphed into a man. My niece is still a woman.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @ATX Hipster

    Men like to root for professional sports teams, because seeing these virtuoso displays of skill and athleticism reminds men of what they once dreamed of for themselves.

    That’s why it’s so funny hearing defenders of the WNBA arguing it should be more popular because the women use better teamwork and fundamentals, as if sports fans care.

  46. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Marty T

    There are, its just that with the retirement of Wambach, Rapinoe is the most famous one who is both out about it and a starter and a somewhat name among soccer fans. Most of the other starters are basically straight (e.g. they have boyfriends or husbands).

    But to be honest, by measure of legitimate superstar/player that has transcended the sport and is mainstream, there's been only three names that have stood out on the US National Team for nearly a decade:

    1. Hope Solo (who is straight)

    2. Mia Hamm (also straight, but she's been retired since 2004)

    3. Every current starting player on the National team with a combined Q rating that doesn't add up to a hill of beans.

    No one else comes close to the publicity and national attention/notoriety/endorsements that Hope Solo has garnered. And for better or worse, the US Federation has hitched their team to her. Now that they've suspended her as well as terminated her contract, US Soccer is back to square one: Not one starting player currently starting on the National team has any major name recognition beyond their most loyal rabid fans. No one. This is actually one time when it can be said that a single player is bigger in stature than the entire sport (US women's soccer).

    The last time this could be plausibly stated would be perhaps in 1920-1927, with a player known as George Herman "Babe" Ruth vs. the entire edifice of MLB. And it is worth noting that with the centennial coming up for the decade of the Roaring Twenties, Babe Ruth is still the one baseball player that every American from about fifteen and older can name.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Penskefile, @Marty T

    To further illustrate the point regarding famous MLBers of the ’20s, when one says the name “Hornsby”, most adults today (at least in the Midwest; South; Northeast) will tend to associate the name with the Hard Cider, and not with the former 2B player for St. Louis. (Irony is that Rogers Horsnby wasn’t a drinker throughout most of his life).

    Megan Rapinoe is kind of the Dizzy Dean of the US National Team. Talented, but a bit of a goofy oddball with crazy antics on the field. If she had stayed in the closet she would’ve been known among her fans as an above average player and nothing more. A previous poster speculated that she may be creating controversy for a future career in SJW. Very possible, especially as she’s been very outspoken for half a decade within the LGBT community; its just that now the Narrative via the NYT has deigned to take notice of her and make her relevant.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yojimbo, Michael Sam established himself as a Gay man so he could make some money off of marginal football skills. It worked for his 15 minutes.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  47. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Marty T

    There are, its just that with the retirement of Wambach, Rapinoe is the most famous one who is both out about it and a starter and a somewhat name among soccer fans. Most of the other starters are basically straight (e.g. they have boyfriends or husbands).

    But to be honest, by measure of legitimate superstar/player that has transcended the sport and is mainstream, there's been only three names that have stood out on the US National Team for nearly a decade:

    1. Hope Solo (who is straight)

    2. Mia Hamm (also straight, but she's been retired since 2004)

    3. Every current starting player on the National team with a combined Q rating that doesn't add up to a hill of beans.

    No one else comes close to the publicity and national attention/notoriety/endorsements that Hope Solo has garnered. And for better or worse, the US Federation has hitched their team to her. Now that they've suspended her as well as terminated her contract, US Soccer is back to square one: Not one starting player currently starting on the National team has any major name recognition beyond their most loyal rabid fans. No one. This is actually one time when it can be said that a single player is bigger in stature than the entire sport (US women's soccer).

    The last time this could be plausibly stated would be perhaps in 1920-1927, with a player known as George Herman "Babe" Ruth vs. the entire edifice of MLB. And it is worth noting that with the centennial coming up for the decade of the Roaring Twenties, Babe Ruth is still the one baseball player that every American from about fifteen and older can name.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Penskefile, @Marty T

    Why do you keep overlooking Alex Morgan? You can’t watch a US broadcast of soccer without seeing at least one commercial featuring her. She is more than equal as a successor to Hope Solo

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @Penskefile

    Alex Morgan has a nice, pretty, and wholesome All-American look. It would probably be a wise marketing choice to make her the face of women's soccer, since my take is that the biggest spectator market and growth potential is soccer-playing girls and their fathers. Ashlyn Harris is very pretty too, but she's taken to butching herself up with sleeve tatoos and dressing in men's shirts, vests and ties, and is rather apparently not heterosexual. By its nature, appealing to a Lesbian subculture is going to alienate fathers of daughters who are probably trying to divert their daughters' time and interest away from boy craziness and into healthful activities in preparation for college; I doubt that after all of that they'd be interested in introducing their daughters into a Lesbian subculture.

    It's heretical to consider human sexuality in any way malleable (in spite of ample evidence both historical and contemporary). We usually think of testosterone as causing aggression and male-oriented sexuality, but what if acting aggressively and in a physically competitive manner (particularly before/during puberty and adolescence) increases the production of testosterone, which in turn makes some girls more inclined to same-sex attraction? We know that in males building muscle and engaging in aggressive behaviors spikes testosterone production, and there are suspicions that exposure of a female fetus to excessive prenatal testosterone inclines the child to same-sex behavior later in life.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BB753

    , @ben tillman
    @Penskefile


    Why do you keep overlooking Alex Morgan? You can’t watch a US broadcast of soccer without seeing at least one commercial featuring her. She is more than equal as a successor to Hope Solo.
     
    Yojimbo hates athletes named Morgan. Especially Joe.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  48. I see a silver lining to this development. With sports now being dominated by minority groups that intend to offend White fans, this might actually lead to a massive decline in obesity due to fans no longer wasting time watching sports as well as coaches losing Millions of Dollars in salary due to low ratings and attendance. Those fat coaches need to drop some weight anyway.

    • Agree: Abe
  49. I”m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women’s team without any difficulty.

    As several others have said, a decent high school team would probably beat the USA women’s team. Same goes for basketball. Probably true of a lot of sports.

  50. I did not know that there is a woman’s soccer team in Chicago, and I live in Chicago. I know we have woman’s roller derby teams.

  51. @Honesthughgrant
    Very funny Steve. People need to understand that the USA soccer team does so well because in most of the world no one cares about women's soccer.

    In most of the world, soccer is the THE NO. 1 men's sport. And the gap between that and women's soccer is so large no cares about it. Women - in those countries - don't want to play it, and men don't want to watch it.

    Imagine if the USA was to enter a women's (American) football team in the Olympics or a women's hardball/baseball team. Who would care? It would be seen as a joke.

    Even as a causal 'murican fan, i can see the gap in ability. The women are slow, can't kick very far or very fast, and can't jump. I"m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women's team without any difficulty.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @BB753, @SteveRogers42, @namae nanka, @AndrewR, @Kyle

    Any MLS “academy” boys U-18 team would take the USA national women’s team apart.

  52. @PiltdownMan
    @BB753

    Semi-professional English regional league team? See 21. The Only Catholic Unionist's post.

    Replies: @BB753

    Well, I was being charitable, lol. I knew about the Australian team but I didn’t know its ranking.
    I’ve played informal soccer in mixed teams and most of the time I was trying not to hurt the girls on the other team.

  53. @James Kabala
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    In individual timed sports the gap seems to be much less absurd. The top woman in the most recent Boston Marathon finished 29th overall, which means she beat thousands of men. Katie Ledecky has (supposedly - not sure if this has been fully documented) beaten men (not Phelps-level men, but men) in practice heats. Why is it so much worse in team sports?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SteveRogers42, @Triumph104

    Size, speed, and strength. Aggressiveness and resistance to injury.

  54. @Alec Leamas
    @BB753


    Make that: any semi-professional English regional league team could easily beat the USA national women’s team. No contest there, same as in rugby.
     
    Intergender soccer is one thing, but I doubt many male rugby players down to the club level would even step on the pitch with women. To properly play the match would necessarily require visiting extraordinary physical violence on the women that they would very simply not be able to absorb. Brain damage, spinal injuries and death would be distinct possibilities.

    Replies: @BB753, @SteveRogers42

    Angelina Jolie and Mila Jovovich beat up 200-pound Spetznaz commandos and hordes of zombies all the time. Check your privilege,

    • LOL: BB753
  55. An intramural basketball team I played on at Boston College once played a pickup game against the women’s varsity squad…..none of our team had even played highschool varsity basketball though we had played other varsity sports. …we basically toyed with them politely once we realized how sucky they were.

    • Replies: @dee nile
    @L7's

    It was Boston College? You probably would have beaten the varsity men just as badly.

    Replies: @EriK

  56. @Bubba
    Great headline and I didn't realize that a NWSL (National Women's Soccer League) game could have less (and much less) attendance than a WNBA game - which had its worst attendance record recorded in 2015. Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States, it's no wonder that the current model of the NWSL is such an abysmal failure. And BTW, minor league baseball games get a hell of a lot more fans in much smaller markets.

    Replies: @meh

    Great headline and I didn’t realize that a NWSL (National Women’s Soccer League) game could have less (and much less) attendance than a WNBA game – which had its worst attendance record recorded in 2015. Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States, it’s no wonder that the current model of the NWSL is such an abysmal failure. And BTW, minor league baseball games get a hell of a lot more fans in much smaller markets.

    “Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States”

    wat?

    I take it you don’t attend many (or, let’s be honest, any) pro soccer games in the USA (MLS, NASL, USL, PDL, NPSL, etc); I mean local pro soccer club teams, not international friendlies or international tournaments between national teams where you get a lot of Hispanics supporting their national teams. Trust me, your assumption about Hispanic soccer support in the USA is wrong.

    There are some Hispanics who support local pro soccer clubs in the USA, but their numbers and influence are greatly exaggerated; they tend to support clubs in Europe or Latin America, not USA clubs. They are not “the basis of fans for soccer in the United States”.

    Pro club soccer (MLS, NASL, etc) relies mainly on white “soccer moms and dads” and their kids in youth soccer, and the “20-40 somethings” urban white hipsters for support; ethnic soccer fans (of whom Hispanics are the largest, but not only group) exist and are important, too, but they are not “the basis” of fan support.

    And no, not even the hipsters care about women’s pro soccer. They may virtue signal for it but few buy tickets for it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @meh

    I went to a few pro men's soccer games at big Soldier Field in Chicago (shown in the picture) in the late 1990s, typically on a Boy Scout or school outing. The stadium was typically a quarter full -- say 15,000 or 20,000 people, usually on discounted group tickets. It's a pleasant experience although not very memorable if you aren't a soccer fan.

    The pro soccer league has been trying to get out of huge football stadiums and into stadium they can come close to filling to make the experience more exciting. For example, in L.A. the Galaxy moved from the 90,000 seat Rose Bowl to a custom-built stadium that seats 27,000. I haven't been to a soccer game there, but that seems like a good idea.

    Replies: @meh, @Desiderius, @Buffalo Joe

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @meh

    And now that the one name that has transcended women's soccer into the mainstream is suspended indefinitely, there are no major names in Women's Pro Soccer let alone on the National Team to warrant any ticket sales. For the third time in about fifteen years, a women's pro soccer league is on the verge of failing. If voting is done with the pocketbook, then clearly American sports fans are rejecting the concept of women's pro soccer. It isn't popular and if it fails yet again, it should be for the last time since there doesn't exist a market that can sustain it for any length of time.

    , @BenjaminL
    @meh


    Pro club soccer (MLS, NASL, etc) relies mainly on white “soccer moms and dads” and their kids in youth soccer, and the “20-40 somethings” urban white hipsters for support; ethnic soccer fans (of whom Hispanics are the largest, but not only group) exist and are important, too, but they are not “the basis” of fan support.
     
    Back in 2014, the NYT paid a rather benign visit to the soccer culture in the extremely white Pacific Northwest...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/travel/soccer-as-spectacle-in-the-pacific-northwest.html?_r=0

    ... the writer managed to avoid mentioning race at all, and was reasonably non-antagonistic to the locals, presumably because these are good white people (vs. the bad NASCAR white people)...

    But then, a mere two years later, they clearly got "woke" and realized how horrible all of this incipient white self-organization would be...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/magazine/the-dark-side-of-american-soccer-culture.html

    Steve's comment on the latter piece:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-implicit-whiteness-of-seattle-portland-europhile-soccer-hipsters-is-very-problematic/
  57. @meh
    @Bubba


    Great headline and I didn’t realize that a NWSL (National Women’s Soccer League) game could have less (and much less) attendance than a WNBA game – which had its worst attendance record recorded in 2015. Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States, it’s no wonder that the current model of the NWSL is such an abysmal failure. And BTW, minor league baseball games get a hell of a lot more fans in much smaller markets.
     
    "Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States"

    wat?

    I take it you don't attend many (or, let's be honest, any) pro soccer games in the USA (MLS, NASL, USL, PDL, NPSL, etc); I mean local pro soccer club teams, not international friendlies or international tournaments between national teams where you get a lot of Hispanics supporting their national teams. Trust me, your assumption about Hispanic soccer support in the USA is wrong.

    There are some Hispanics who support local pro soccer clubs in the USA, but their numbers and influence are greatly exaggerated; they tend to support clubs in Europe or Latin America, not USA clubs. They are not "the basis of fans for soccer in the United States".

    Pro club soccer (MLS, NASL, etc) relies mainly on white "soccer moms and dads" and their kids in youth soccer, and the "20-40 somethings" urban white hipsters for support; ethnic soccer fans (of whom Hispanics are the largest, but not only group) exist and are important, too, but they are not "the basis" of fan support.

    And no, not even the hipsters care about women's pro soccer. They may virtue signal for it but few buy tickets for it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BenjaminL

    I went to a few pro men’s soccer games at big Soldier Field in Chicago (shown in the picture) in the late 1990s, typically on a Boy Scout or school outing. The stadium was typically a quarter full — say 15,000 or 20,000 people, usually on discounted group tickets. It’s a pleasant experience although not very memorable if you aren’t a soccer fan.

    The pro soccer league has been trying to get out of huge football stadiums and into stadium they can come close to filling to make the experience more exciting. For example, in L.A. the Galaxy moved from the 90,000 seat Rose Bowl to a custom-built stadium that seats 27,000. I haven’t been to a soccer game there, but that seems like a good idea.

    • Replies: @meh
    @Steve Sailer

    Pretty much all of the MLS clubs have, or are in the process of getting, smaller SSS (soccer specific stadia) where they can get the kind of crowd atmosphere they can't get in giant NFL stadia. And, more importantly, where they can control the revenue streams (parking, concessions, pro shop, commercial sponsorships, etc.); for instance when they played at Soldier Field every time the Chicago Fire sold a t-shirt or a hot dog, the money went into the pockets of the Chicago Bears owners, not to the Chicago Fire.

    One exception: Seattle Sounders, who play in the same stadium as the NFL Seahawks and can fill the stadium up to 40,000 most nights and sell it out occasionally for big games against, for instance, regional rivals Portland Timbers (who play in a smaller 20,000 seater in Portland).

    Atlanta is joining MLS next year, also playing in a huge new NFL stadium, but they've gotten enough season ticket holders that they look likely to repeat the Seattle scenario, and mostly fill it up.

    It seems to work (sharing the larger NFL stadium instead of building a smaller SSS) if the NFL owner also is owner or part owner of the MLS team, and the stadium is located downtown so the white urban hipsters can take public transit to the games. The New England Revolution does not draw as well in an NFL stadium, which is located out in the suburbs.

    There's also going to be a second LA team in MLS, they are building a new SSS next to the LA Coliseum, on the site of the old Memorial Sports Arena, in the 22,000 seat range.

    The Chicago Fire built one of the first of the newer SSS a decade ago now, 20,000 seats, but it is out in the suburbs in Bridgeview so they have had trouble regularly selling out the stadium (that, and the Fire have sucked badly for a while now which does not help) due to people not wanting to drive out to the suburbs for games.

    There's a group trying to build an urban SSS in Chicago, for a potential NASL team, most likely to go under the old NASL name Chicago Sting. Getting a stadium built in an urban city like Chicago is difficult; MLS and NASL both have teams trying to build SSS in New York City. DC United looks to be finally getting its SSS built in urban Washington DC after over a decade of trying to get it done.

    It's been a pretty big effort; lots of new stadia being built for soccer over the past couple of decades; especially in the past decade. This would never happen for women's soccer of course; the interest and passion is just not there to justify that kind of investment.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer

    The new Cincinnati FC has been pretty consistently filling Nippert Stadium on the campus of the University of Cincinnati which is up the hill from downtown (i.e. not suburban, and near all the hospitals, so a ton of new construction/housing nearby). It's tapped into a combination of SWPL post-national status striving (the F stands for "football"), regional pride, and college life nostalgia.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, Minor league baseball plays in small, fan friendly stadiums, usually seating fewer than 20k, good business and good baseball, aided by fan friendly promotions. Women's basketball and women's soccer are not NBA and MLS lite, so filling a 27k seat stadium seems like a reach.

  58. @Steve Sailer
    @meh

    I went to a few pro men's soccer games at big Soldier Field in Chicago (shown in the picture) in the late 1990s, typically on a Boy Scout or school outing. The stadium was typically a quarter full -- say 15,000 or 20,000 people, usually on discounted group tickets. It's a pleasant experience although not very memorable if you aren't a soccer fan.

    The pro soccer league has been trying to get out of huge football stadiums and into stadium they can come close to filling to make the experience more exciting. For example, in L.A. the Galaxy moved from the 90,000 seat Rose Bowl to a custom-built stadium that seats 27,000. I haven't been to a soccer game there, but that seems like a good idea.

    Replies: @meh, @Desiderius, @Buffalo Joe

    Pretty much all of the MLS clubs have, or are in the process of getting, smaller SSS (soccer specific stadia) where they can get the kind of crowd atmosphere they can’t get in giant NFL stadia. And, more importantly, where they can control the revenue streams (parking, concessions, pro shop, commercial sponsorships, etc.); for instance when they played at Soldier Field every time the Chicago Fire sold a t-shirt or a hot dog, the money went into the pockets of the Chicago Bears owners, not to the Chicago Fire.

    One exception: Seattle Sounders, who play in the same stadium as the NFL Seahawks and can fill the stadium up to 40,000 most nights and sell it out occasionally for big games against, for instance, regional rivals Portland Timbers (who play in a smaller 20,000 seater in Portland).

    Atlanta is joining MLS next year, also playing in a huge new NFL stadium, but they’ve gotten enough season ticket holders that they look likely to repeat the Seattle scenario, and mostly fill it up.

    It seems to work (sharing the larger NFL stadium instead of building a smaller SSS) if the NFL owner also is owner or part owner of the MLS team, and the stadium is located downtown so the white urban hipsters can take public transit to the games. The New England Revolution does not draw as well in an NFL stadium, which is located out in the suburbs.

    There’s also going to be a second LA team in MLS, they are building a new SSS next to the LA Coliseum, on the site of the old Memorial Sports Arena, in the 22,000 seat range.

    The Chicago Fire built one of the first of the newer SSS a decade ago now, 20,000 seats, but it is out in the suburbs in Bridgeview so they have had trouble regularly selling out the stadium (that, and the Fire have sucked badly for a while now which does not help) due to people not wanting to drive out to the suburbs for games.

    There’s a group trying to build an urban SSS in Chicago, for a potential NASL team, most likely to go under the old NASL name Chicago Sting. Getting a stadium built in an urban city like Chicago is difficult; MLS and NASL both have teams trying to build SSS in New York City. DC United looks to be finally getting its SSS built in urban Washington DC after over a decade of trying to get it done.

    It’s been a pretty big effort; lots of new stadia being built for soccer over the past couple of decades; especially in the past decade. This would never happen for women’s soccer of course; the interest and passion is just not there to justify that kind of investment.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @meh

    The Revs get less than a third of the crowd the Patriots get. They cover one side of the stadium for soccer.
    Running the soccer team gives Bob Kraft's son something to do.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @meh

    The "Revolution" is also held back by its ridiculous name. You almost expect it to break out into "Little Red Corvette". The 1970s are only just ending for American soccer marketers.

    The sad part is that Boston can claim America's first football team of any kind, the Oneida Football Club of 1862. It doesn't occur to soccer people in the Hub to revive that name?

    Among Oneida's roster were the names Edward Lincoln Arnold, John Malcolm Forbes, Francis Greenwood Peabody, Winthrop Saltonstall Scudder, and Huntington Frothingham Wolcott. Not a Travon or Schitavious in sight.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  59. @Honesthughgrant
    Very funny Steve. People need to understand that the USA soccer team does so well because in most of the world no one cares about women's soccer.

    In most of the world, soccer is the THE NO. 1 men's sport. And the gap between that and women's soccer is so large no cares about it. Women - in those countries - don't want to play it, and men don't want to watch it.

    Imagine if the USA was to enter a women's (American) football team in the Olympics or a women's hardball/baseball team. Who would care? It would be seen as a joke.

    Even as a causal 'murican fan, i can see the gap in ability. The women are slow, can't kick very far or very fast, and can't jump. I"m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women's team without any difficulty.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @BB753, @SteveRogers42, @namae nanka, @AndrewR, @Kyle

    You don’t have to reach to English League sides,

    Aaron Heifitz, the publicist for the U.S. national women’s soccer team, described how the women’s squad performs against the best youth club players in Southern California: “The boys’ 13s we can handle pretty consistently, but when the boys start really developing at 14, and especially 15, that’s when you start to see real separation and they pass even the best women’s players. They’re just bigger, stronger, and faster.”

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/225402/olympian-political-correctness-todd-gallagher

    And this with the women’s team doped up halfway to manhood.

  60. @L7's
    An intramural basketball team I played on at Boston College once played a pickup game against the women's varsity squad.....none of our team had even played highschool varsity basketball though we had played other varsity sports. ...we basically toyed with them politely once we realized how sucky they were.

    Replies: @dee nile

    It was Boston College? You probably would have beaten the varsity men just as badly.

    • Replies: @EriK
    @dee nile

    You never played competitive basketball did you?

    Replies: @dee nile

  61. @Steve Sailer
    @meh

    I went to a few pro men's soccer games at big Soldier Field in Chicago (shown in the picture) in the late 1990s, typically on a Boy Scout or school outing. The stadium was typically a quarter full -- say 15,000 or 20,000 people, usually on discounted group tickets. It's a pleasant experience although not very memorable if you aren't a soccer fan.

    The pro soccer league has been trying to get out of huge football stadiums and into stadium they can come close to filling to make the experience more exciting. For example, in L.A. the Galaxy moved from the 90,000 seat Rose Bowl to a custom-built stadium that seats 27,000. I haven't been to a soccer game there, but that seems like a good idea.

    Replies: @meh, @Desiderius, @Buffalo Joe

    The new Cincinnati FC has been pretty consistently filling Nippert Stadium on the campus of the University of Cincinnati which is up the hill from downtown (i.e. not suburban, and near all the hospitals, so a ton of new construction/housing nearby). It’s tapped into a combination of SWPL post-national status striving (the F stands for “football”), regional pride, and college life nostalgia.

  62. @Jim Sweeney
    @Barnard

    Tennis is and has been loaded with lesbians starting with Billie Jean King and Martina through the ranks. A friend of mine quit a good pro tennis job once as watching the lesbians prey on newbies on the tour got too hard to watch.

    Replies: @sb

    I get the feeling that Margaret Court is downplayed as one of the all time tennis greats by the media -particularly the US media – is because she is married, a mother and is a very active Christian with “traditional” attitudes .

    She has a pretty good record -not that the average American would have heard of her

  63. @dee nile
    @L7's

    It was Boston College? You probably would have beaten the varsity men just as badly.

    Replies: @EriK

    You never played competitive basketball did you?

    • Replies: @dee nile
    @EriK

    Come on, you have to admit BC teams seem to have a Will to Lose.

    Replies: @EriK

  64. @Clifford Brown
    @pyrrhus

    The Red Stars is a reference to the Chicago Flag which features four red stars representing four critical events in Chicago's history. While not nearly as ubiquitous as the State of Texas flag, the Chicago flag is a commonly used to symbolize Chicago civic pride.

    Replies: @Wency

    *Not as ubiquitous as the Texas flag…*

    Few flags are. I’d like to see the numbers, but having lived in TX, I’m confident that more Texas flags are printed each year than those of the 49 other states combined, by a comfortable margin. You could throw city flags in there as well without changing the math much. You might even be able to throw in the Confederate flag and find the TX flag still wins.

    It’s probably also a fair guess that more U.S. flags are printed each year than those of all other countries on Earth combined. But then, there’s a line that foreigners tend to view America as Americans view Texas, so this analogy lines up.

  65. @Penskefile
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Why do you keep overlooking Alex Morgan? You can't watch a US broadcast of soccer without seeing at least one commercial featuring her. She is more than equal as a successor to Hope Solo

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @ben tillman

    Alex Morgan has a nice, pretty, and wholesome All-American look. It would probably be a wise marketing choice to make her the face of women’s soccer, since my take is that the biggest spectator market and growth potential is soccer-playing girls and their fathers. Ashlyn Harris is very pretty too, but she’s taken to butching herself up with sleeve tatoos and dressing in men’s shirts, vests and ties, and is rather apparently not heterosexual. By its nature, appealing to a Lesbian subculture is going to alienate fathers of daughters who are probably trying to divert their daughters’ time and interest away from boy craziness and into healthful activities in preparation for college; I doubt that after all of that they’d be interested in introducing their daughters into a Lesbian subculture.

    It’s heretical to consider human sexuality in any way malleable (in spite of ample evidence both historical and contemporary). We usually think of testosterone as causing aggression and male-oriented sexuality, but what if acting aggressively and in a physically competitive manner (particularly before/during puberty and adolescence) increases the production of testosterone, which in turn makes some girls more inclined to same-sex attraction? We know that in males building muscle and engaging in aggressive behaviors spikes testosterone production, and there are suspicions that exposure of a female fetus to excessive prenatal testosterone inclines the child to same-sex behavior later in life.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Alec Leamas


    By its nature, appealing to a Lesbian subculture is going to alienate fathers of daughters who are probably trying to divert their daughters’ time and interest away from boy craziness and into healthful activities in preparation for college
     
    Smart fathers are starting to figure out that boy craziness is a more healthful activity for their daughters than college.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Alec Leamas

    I previously mentioned why Alex Morgan will never rival Hope Solo in terms of publicity and personality. Currently there simply aren't any players on the National Team that have transcended into the mainstream and most likely never will be. There isn't anything inherently special about Morgan from say, Mia Hamm. She is this generation's Mia Hamm and nothing more. Alex is the official version of corporate sports: Repeats the party line, never says anything controversial, and is pretty eye candy for the cameras. She'll be forgotten within a decade after retirement.

    Hope Solo, however, is the National Team's all time greatest goalkeeper and she has a distinctive personality without precedent in women's soccer (perhaps even in US Women's Sports).

    Just have to ask one question: If Alex Morgan is all that in the category of generating publicity for women's soccer as a whole, then how come the league is once again on the verge of failing? In other words, she alone can't guarantee major ticket sales. It simply isn't working. If Solo couldn't do it (the biggest name to transcend the sport in the US) there's simply no reason to believe that any other player would.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Alec Leamas

    , @BB753
    @Alec Leamas

    All in all, soccer is a very masculine sport. Almost as much as rugby. If I were the dad of a young girl, I'd keep her away from soccer and basketball and steer her toward volleyball or field hockey, which are much more feminine and ladylike in nature, and don't tend to attract butch dykes. For individual sports, there's ping pong and badminton.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas

  66. @dan hayes
    I was under the impression that lesbianism in sports was mostly confined to women's basketball. Maybe its more widespread than I had thought (or hoped against). But even women's professional basketball seems to be a financial deadbeat - its core fandom being hard core lesbians.

    Replies: @Barnard, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @ScarletNumber, @Marty T, @Expletive Deleted

    To get to the top flight in UK and Euro women’s football, being the daddy in a same-sex relationship is par for the course.
    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/meet-14-openly-gay-or-bisexual-soccer-stars-womens-world-cup090615/#gs.Z8BJPfs
    I’d be startled to meet a top lady footeriste who wasn’t.
    Fine. Good luck to ’em. No football fans watch it, or have a clue about who these clodhopping, wheezy gym mistresses are. Apart from when they blag their way onto the BBC griping for “moar munney!!” and, “moar fame and telly!!”.
    To which the answer is invariably a big fat “What for? Any pub team off Hackney Marshes could stuff you”.

  67. @EriK
    @dee nile

    You never played competitive basketball did you?

    Replies: @dee nile

    Come on, you have to admit BC teams seem to have a Will to Lose.

    • Replies: @EriK
    @dee nile

    They have struggled lately.

  68. The most deplorable one [AKA "The Fourth Political Theory"] says:

    Meanwhile, some Swedish 12yo boys age pretty fast and would probably like to get it on with women:

    https://twitter.com/JamesLewisMurr1/status/773118848329478144

  69. @Alec Leamas
    @Penskefile

    Alex Morgan has a nice, pretty, and wholesome All-American look. It would probably be a wise marketing choice to make her the face of women's soccer, since my take is that the biggest spectator market and growth potential is soccer-playing girls and their fathers. Ashlyn Harris is very pretty too, but she's taken to butching herself up with sleeve tatoos and dressing in men's shirts, vests and ties, and is rather apparently not heterosexual. By its nature, appealing to a Lesbian subculture is going to alienate fathers of daughters who are probably trying to divert their daughters' time and interest away from boy craziness and into healthful activities in preparation for college; I doubt that after all of that they'd be interested in introducing their daughters into a Lesbian subculture.

    It's heretical to consider human sexuality in any way malleable (in spite of ample evidence both historical and contemporary). We usually think of testosterone as causing aggression and male-oriented sexuality, but what if acting aggressively and in a physically competitive manner (particularly before/during puberty and adolescence) increases the production of testosterone, which in turn makes some girls more inclined to same-sex attraction? We know that in males building muscle and engaging in aggressive behaviors spikes testosterone production, and there are suspicions that exposure of a female fetus to excessive prenatal testosterone inclines the child to same-sex behavior later in life.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BB753

    By its nature, appealing to a Lesbian subculture is going to alienate fathers of daughters who are probably trying to divert their daughters’ time and interest away from boy craziness and into healthful activities in preparation for college

    Smart fathers are starting to figure out that boy craziness is a more healthful activity for their daughters than college.

  70. Lesbians really are the bottom of the barrel, at least some gays are good at fashion and interior design.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @Marcus

    I had the misfortune of working around a lesbian. When she and her "wife" were feuding, the people in the office stayed out of the way. When she was feeling particularly butch, the women hid and the men laughed at her attempts at interaction, which just stirred her up more. She finally left and people cheered.

  71. @Anonymous

    People like to root for men athletes claiming to represent your city or state because it triggers atavistic territorial urges, but women’s professional team sports have been repeated failures because nobody sees women as defenders of the home turf.

    This only works at the national level where women athletes are considered exemplars of the superiority of the American way of life.
     
    I don't think people actually care about American women's soccer in international competition. It's just ridiculously overhyped every few years by the media. The Little League World Series that's on TV for a few days every summer is more exciting and a better display of sporting prowess than adult women's soccer, which along with women's basketball is just terrible.

    More fundamental than territorial urges is that men can actually play sports and display sporting ability.

    Replies: @27 year old

    The little league world series is more exciting than adult male professional baseball

  72. @meh
    @Bubba


    Great headline and I didn’t realize that a NWSL (National Women’s Soccer League) game could have less (and much less) attendance than a WNBA game – which had its worst attendance record recorded in 2015. Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States, it’s no wonder that the current model of the NWSL is such an abysmal failure. And BTW, minor league baseball games get a hell of a lot more fans in much smaller markets.
     
    "Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States"

    wat?

    I take it you don't attend many (or, let's be honest, any) pro soccer games in the USA (MLS, NASL, USL, PDL, NPSL, etc); I mean local pro soccer club teams, not international friendlies or international tournaments between national teams where you get a lot of Hispanics supporting their national teams. Trust me, your assumption about Hispanic soccer support in the USA is wrong.

    There are some Hispanics who support local pro soccer clubs in the USA, but their numbers and influence are greatly exaggerated; they tend to support clubs in Europe or Latin America, not USA clubs. They are not "the basis of fans for soccer in the United States".

    Pro club soccer (MLS, NASL, etc) relies mainly on white "soccer moms and dads" and their kids in youth soccer, and the "20-40 somethings" urban white hipsters for support; ethnic soccer fans (of whom Hispanics are the largest, but not only group) exist and are important, too, but they are not "the basis" of fan support.

    And no, not even the hipsters care about women's pro soccer. They may virtue signal for it but few buy tickets for it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BenjaminL

    And now that the one name that has transcended women’s soccer into the mainstream is suspended indefinitely, there are no major names in Women’s Pro Soccer let alone on the National Team to warrant any ticket sales. For the third time in about fifteen years, a women’s pro soccer league is on the verge of failing. If voting is done with the pocketbook, then clearly American sports fans are rejecting the concept of women’s pro soccer. It isn’t popular and if it fails yet again, it should be for the last time since there doesn’t exist a market that can sustain it for any length of time.

    • Agree: Forbes
  73. @Alec Leamas
    @Penskefile

    Alex Morgan has a nice, pretty, and wholesome All-American look. It would probably be a wise marketing choice to make her the face of women's soccer, since my take is that the biggest spectator market and growth potential is soccer-playing girls and their fathers. Ashlyn Harris is very pretty too, but she's taken to butching herself up with sleeve tatoos and dressing in men's shirts, vests and ties, and is rather apparently not heterosexual. By its nature, appealing to a Lesbian subculture is going to alienate fathers of daughters who are probably trying to divert their daughters' time and interest away from boy craziness and into healthful activities in preparation for college; I doubt that after all of that they'd be interested in introducing their daughters into a Lesbian subculture.

    It's heretical to consider human sexuality in any way malleable (in spite of ample evidence both historical and contemporary). We usually think of testosterone as causing aggression and male-oriented sexuality, but what if acting aggressively and in a physically competitive manner (particularly before/during puberty and adolescence) increases the production of testosterone, which in turn makes some girls more inclined to same-sex attraction? We know that in males building muscle and engaging in aggressive behaviors spikes testosterone production, and there are suspicions that exposure of a female fetus to excessive prenatal testosterone inclines the child to same-sex behavior later in life.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BB753

    I previously mentioned why Alex Morgan will never rival Hope Solo in terms of publicity and personality. Currently there simply aren’t any players on the National Team that have transcended into the mainstream and most likely never will be. There isn’t anything inherently special about Morgan from say, Mia Hamm. She is this generation’s Mia Hamm and nothing more. Alex is the official version of corporate sports: Repeats the party line, never says anything controversial, and is pretty eye candy for the cameras. She’ll be forgotten within a decade after retirement.

    Hope Solo, however, is the National Team’s all time greatest goalkeeper and she has a distinctive personality without precedent in women’s soccer (perhaps even in US Women’s Sports).

    Just have to ask one question: If Alex Morgan is all that in the category of generating publicity for women’s soccer as a whole, then how come the league is once again on the verge of failing? In other words, she alone can’t guarantee major ticket sales. It simply isn’t working. If Solo couldn’t do it (the biggest name to transcend the sport in the US) there’s simply no reason to believe that any other player would.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yojimbo, Good comment, but according to ESPN and Sports Illustrated, Rhonda Rousey was the greatest female athlete of all time and a major sports personality, uh, until she stepped into the ring with Holly Hahn.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Brutusale

    , @Alec Leamas
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I think if you are already enough of a fan to know who is a really good player and who isn't, you're probably not the target demo to whom the marketers are trying to make an appeal and broaden the fan base. (I don't know my Solos from my Rapinoes). Alex Morgan projects "I could see my daughter being like this nice pretty girl," while the tattooed dykes and domestic brawlers don't.


    Just have to ask one question: If Alex Morgan is all that in the category of generating publicity for women’s soccer as a whole, then how come the league is once again on the verge of failing? In other words, she alone can’t guarantee major ticket sales. It simply isn’t working. If Solo couldn’t do it (the biggest name to transcend the sport in the US) there’s simply no reason to believe that any other player would.
     
    You're presenting a false dichotomy. It could be that the league just doesn't have a sufficient fan base to support it (recall that even in Football crazy America, all professional alternatives to the post-merger NFL have failed). That doesn't mean that there aren't players who are more appealing to a broader audience than others, and upon whom the league would be best served basing its brand. The number of female youth soccer players in each of the markets who would be casual fans, attend some games, and buy some merchandise is multiples of the number of potential hardcore lesbian fans in those markets. It makes much more sense to propose that soccer is a pastime that fits within a traditionally wholesome and feminine lifestyle than to allow tattooed, butched up lesbians to be the face of your league.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  74. @meh
    @Steve Sailer

    Pretty much all of the MLS clubs have, or are in the process of getting, smaller SSS (soccer specific stadia) where they can get the kind of crowd atmosphere they can't get in giant NFL stadia. And, more importantly, where they can control the revenue streams (parking, concessions, pro shop, commercial sponsorships, etc.); for instance when they played at Soldier Field every time the Chicago Fire sold a t-shirt or a hot dog, the money went into the pockets of the Chicago Bears owners, not to the Chicago Fire.

    One exception: Seattle Sounders, who play in the same stadium as the NFL Seahawks and can fill the stadium up to 40,000 most nights and sell it out occasionally for big games against, for instance, regional rivals Portland Timbers (who play in a smaller 20,000 seater in Portland).

    Atlanta is joining MLS next year, also playing in a huge new NFL stadium, but they've gotten enough season ticket holders that they look likely to repeat the Seattle scenario, and mostly fill it up.

    It seems to work (sharing the larger NFL stadium instead of building a smaller SSS) if the NFL owner also is owner or part owner of the MLS team, and the stadium is located downtown so the white urban hipsters can take public transit to the games. The New England Revolution does not draw as well in an NFL stadium, which is located out in the suburbs.

    There's also going to be a second LA team in MLS, they are building a new SSS next to the LA Coliseum, on the site of the old Memorial Sports Arena, in the 22,000 seat range.

    The Chicago Fire built one of the first of the newer SSS a decade ago now, 20,000 seats, but it is out in the suburbs in Bridgeview so they have had trouble regularly selling out the stadium (that, and the Fire have sucked badly for a while now which does not help) due to people not wanting to drive out to the suburbs for games.

    There's a group trying to build an urban SSS in Chicago, for a potential NASL team, most likely to go under the old NASL name Chicago Sting. Getting a stadium built in an urban city like Chicago is difficult; MLS and NASL both have teams trying to build SSS in New York City. DC United looks to be finally getting its SSS built in urban Washington DC after over a decade of trying to get it done.

    It's been a pretty big effort; lots of new stadia being built for soccer over the past couple of decades; especially in the past decade. This would never happen for women's soccer of course; the interest and passion is just not there to justify that kind of investment.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Reg Cæsar

    The Revs get less than a third of the crowd the Patriots get. They cover one side of the stadium for soccer.
    Running the soccer team gives Bob Kraft’s son something to do.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Brutusale

    Getting 20,000 people for a soccer game in the U.S. is not bad. That's probably more than the average major league baseball game before a few decades ago.

    The 1927 Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig in their primes averaged about 16,000 per game in a stadium that seated over 60,000.

    It seems like soccer has developed a pretty solid niche in the U.S. as a spectator sport.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  75. This only works at the national level where women athletes are considered exemplars of the superiority of the American way of life.

    This explains at once why: (1) s male versus female team sports go, distaff soccer is relatively well-off in America compared to the men’s version; and (2) the rest of the world cares nothing at all about women’s soccer.

  76. @Honesthughgrant
    Very funny Steve. People need to understand that the USA soccer team does so well because in most of the world no one cares about women's soccer.

    In most of the world, soccer is the THE NO. 1 men's sport. And the gap between that and women's soccer is so large no cares about it. Women - in those countries - don't want to play it, and men don't want to watch it.

    Imagine if the USA was to enter a women's (American) football team in the Olympics or a women's hardball/baseball team. Who would care? It would be seen as a joke.

    Even as a causal 'murican fan, i can see the gap in ability. The women are slow, can't kick very far or very fast, and can't jump. I"m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women's team without any difficulty.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @BB753, @SteveRogers42, @namae nanka, @AndrewR, @Kyle

    I bet the average boy’s high school team could beat the US national women’s team.

  77. @Penskefile
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Why do you keep overlooking Alex Morgan? You can't watch a US broadcast of soccer without seeing at least one commercial featuring her. She is more than equal as a successor to Hope Solo

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @ben tillman

    Why do you keep overlooking Alex Morgan? You can’t watch a US broadcast of soccer without seeing at least one commercial featuring her. She is more than equal as a successor to Hope Solo.

    Yojimbo hates athletes named Morgan. Especially Joe.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @ben tillman

    Touche. I had forgotten about that one.

    I never said Alex Morgan isn't any good, she obviously is. But she hasn't transcended the sport of women's soccer in the same way as Hope Solo. There are still many ordinary sports fans/non-sports fans who can't name Alex Morgan but have definitely heard of Hope Solo (due to Dancing With the Stars; domestic violence case; etc). In other words there's nothing inherently special about Morgan. If she weren't an athlete she'd either be a professional career woman or a stay at home housewife.

  78. in an earlier women’s soccer thread i suggested that women’s soccer adopt the format of rugby, where national team matches are more important than club team matches (unlike men’s soccer where they’re equal).

    in rugby national teams play a lot more games vs their soccer counterparts, and regional championships are held annually, instead of every 4 years.

  79. @Marty T
    @dan hayes

    There are lesbians at the highest levels of all women's sports. Even tennis has some (though probably fewer than it used to).

    I think of softball as even more lesbian than women's basketball on a collegiate level. Those two sports are probably the most lesbian by percentage.

    Replies: @JohnnyGeo

    A female acquaintance of mine attended a college that had recently had a lesbian sex scandal on the softball team. She was advised to try out for the weightlifting team to avoid the appearance that she might be gay.

  80. National Pastime used to be baseball. Now it is ‘pretending women athletes are better than they are’.

  81. @Alec Leamas
    @Penskefile

    Alex Morgan has a nice, pretty, and wholesome All-American look. It would probably be a wise marketing choice to make her the face of women's soccer, since my take is that the biggest spectator market and growth potential is soccer-playing girls and their fathers. Ashlyn Harris is very pretty too, but she's taken to butching herself up with sleeve tatoos and dressing in men's shirts, vests and ties, and is rather apparently not heterosexual. By its nature, appealing to a Lesbian subculture is going to alienate fathers of daughters who are probably trying to divert their daughters' time and interest away from boy craziness and into healthful activities in preparation for college; I doubt that after all of that they'd be interested in introducing their daughters into a Lesbian subculture.

    It's heretical to consider human sexuality in any way malleable (in spite of ample evidence both historical and contemporary). We usually think of testosterone as causing aggression and male-oriented sexuality, but what if acting aggressively and in a physically competitive manner (particularly before/during puberty and adolescence) increases the production of testosterone, which in turn makes some girls more inclined to same-sex attraction? We know that in males building muscle and engaging in aggressive behaviors spikes testosterone production, and there are suspicions that exposure of a female fetus to excessive prenatal testosterone inclines the child to same-sex behavior later in life.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BB753

    All in all, soccer is a very masculine sport. Almost as much as rugby. If I were the dad of a young girl, I’d keep her away from soccer and basketball and steer her toward volleyball or field hockey, which are much more feminine and ladylike in nature, and don’t tend to attract butch dykes. For individual sports, there’s ping pong and badminton.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @BB753

    You must not be familiar with rugby.

    Replies: @BB753

  82. @meh
    @Bubba


    Great headline and I didn’t realize that a NWSL (National Women’s Soccer League) game could have less (and much less) attendance than a WNBA game – which had its worst attendance record recorded in 2015. Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States, it’s no wonder that the current model of the NWSL is such an abysmal failure. And BTW, minor league baseball games get a hell of a lot more fans in much smaller markets.
     
    "Considering Hispanic men are the basis of fans for soccer in the United States"

    wat?

    I take it you don't attend many (or, let's be honest, any) pro soccer games in the USA (MLS, NASL, USL, PDL, NPSL, etc); I mean local pro soccer club teams, not international friendlies or international tournaments between national teams where you get a lot of Hispanics supporting their national teams. Trust me, your assumption about Hispanic soccer support in the USA is wrong.

    There are some Hispanics who support local pro soccer clubs in the USA, but their numbers and influence are greatly exaggerated; they tend to support clubs in Europe or Latin America, not USA clubs. They are not "the basis of fans for soccer in the United States".

    Pro club soccer (MLS, NASL, etc) relies mainly on white "soccer moms and dads" and their kids in youth soccer, and the "20-40 somethings" urban white hipsters for support; ethnic soccer fans (of whom Hispanics are the largest, but not only group) exist and are important, too, but they are not "the basis" of fan support.

    And no, not even the hipsters care about women's pro soccer. They may virtue signal for it but few buy tickets for it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @BenjaminL

    Pro club soccer (MLS, NASL, etc) relies mainly on white “soccer moms and dads” and their kids in youth soccer, and the “20-40 somethings” urban white hipsters for support; ethnic soccer fans (of whom Hispanics are the largest, but not only group) exist and are important, too, but they are not “the basis” of fan support.

    Back in 2014, the NYT paid a rather benign visit to the soccer culture in the extremely white Pacific Northwest…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/travel/soccer-as-spectacle-in-the-pacific-northwest.html?_r=0

    … the writer managed to avoid mentioning race at all, and was reasonably non-antagonistic to the locals, presumably because these are good white people (vs. the bad NASCAR white people)…

    But then, a mere two years later, they clearly got “woke” and realized how horrible all of this incipient white self-organization would be…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/magazine/the-dark-side-of-american-soccer-culture.html

    Steve’s comment on the latter piece:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-implicit-whiteness-of-seattle-portland-europhile-soccer-hipsters-is-very-problematic/

  83. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Marty T

    There are, its just that with the retirement of Wambach, Rapinoe is the most famous one who is both out about it and a starter and a somewhat name among soccer fans. Most of the other starters are basically straight (e.g. they have boyfriends or husbands).

    But to be honest, by measure of legitimate superstar/player that has transcended the sport and is mainstream, there's been only three names that have stood out on the US National Team for nearly a decade:

    1. Hope Solo (who is straight)

    2. Mia Hamm (also straight, but she's been retired since 2004)

    3. Every current starting player on the National team with a combined Q rating that doesn't add up to a hill of beans.

    No one else comes close to the publicity and national attention/notoriety/endorsements that Hope Solo has garnered. And for better or worse, the US Federation has hitched their team to her. Now that they've suspended her as well as terminated her contract, US Soccer is back to square one: Not one starting player currently starting on the National team has any major name recognition beyond their most loyal rabid fans. No one. This is actually one time when it can be said that a single player is bigger in stature than the entire sport (US women's soccer).

    The last time this could be plausibly stated would be perhaps in 1920-1927, with a player known as George Herman "Babe" Ruth vs. the entire edifice of MLB. And it is worth noting that with the centennial coming up for the decade of the Roaring Twenties, Babe Ruth is still the one baseball player that every American from about fifteen and older can name.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Penskefile, @Marty T

    Isnt getting rid of Solo addition by subtraction? She’s so unlikable I bet many players on the team can’t stand her. They need to promote the young and pretty ones like Morgan and Johnston.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Marty T

    Not really. What Solo did do was help drive attendance figures (remember this is women's soccer so its all relative to what they'd usually get). Over most of this decade, she had the biggest entourage, and the most media people around her wherever she went. That wasn't a coincidence.

    It's not up to the league to promote Alex Morgan or Julie Johnston. They have to promote themselves nonstop in the same manner that Solo promoted herself. The fact that they haven't done so, is on them. Most of the players don't seem to want to make more money and really don't appear to be seeking more publicity for themselves, and that's on them. If Hope had "waited" for US Soccer to promote her instead of doing it herself, she'd still be the unknown goalie. If they want the fame, endorsements, etc. why aren't they going for it? Why aren't they making it happen and trying to get attention the way Solo did? It worked for her.

    She figured out long ago that if its to be its up to herself. The league couldn't care less about any one individual member. In fact, they'd much prefer that no one member stands out so that they continue to be lowballed in contracts and get paid peanuts. But there's a reason why she's been the highest paid player on the team, because she and her agent/publicist wanted the fame while the other players do not. Shame, cause they're only being manipulated by the powers that be.

    Example: Solo's one teammate scored the winning goal in the '08 Olympics final; in the '12 Olympics final; and in the final at the '15 World Cup. I dare say that most casual fans of sports have never heard of her and wouldn't know what she looks like, even though she's been on the starting roster or mostly playing for over ten yrs. She doesn't make anything like what Solo earns. Why is that? Because she's not consciously seeking publicity in the same way as Hope Solo and of course the Federation isn't about to promote her.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Marty T


    They need to promote the young and pretty ones like Morgan and Johnston
     
    They need to play in the nude.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42

  84. @dee nile
    @EriK

    Come on, you have to admit BC teams seem to have a Will to Lose.

    Replies: @EriK

    They have struggled lately.

  85. @ben tillman
    @Penskefile


    Why do you keep overlooking Alex Morgan? You can’t watch a US broadcast of soccer without seeing at least one commercial featuring her. She is more than equal as a successor to Hope Solo.
     
    Yojimbo hates athletes named Morgan. Especially Joe.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Touche. I had forgotten about that one.

    I never said Alex Morgan isn’t any good, she obviously is. But she hasn’t transcended the sport of women’s soccer in the same way as Hope Solo. There are still many ordinary sports fans/non-sports fans who can’t name Alex Morgan but have definitely heard of Hope Solo (due to Dancing With the Stars; domestic violence case; etc). In other words there’s nothing inherently special about Morgan. If she weren’t an athlete she’d either be a professional career woman or a stay at home housewife.

  86. nobody cares at all about the women’s professional league

    At least 3355 seemed to care enough to go & watch Seattle Reign vs. Chicago Red Stars. ( https://www.reignfc.com/#news ) That’s slightly more than nobody, I suppose. But for someone who only seems to think how to “make a lot more money” that’s probably not enough.

    Nationalist idiots probably won’t get it, but there are actually people who care about the sports they watch, not only about some silly symbolism, national or otherwise.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @bossel

    Seattle Reign, the pro club that Hope Solo plays for. The Reign actually has some national team members on it. However, 3,355 in attendance for an actual grown up professional sport is a failure.
    Obviously if this were a men's team, everyone here would instinctively understand that. Most high school football teams can attract about 5k on a typical Friday night. In TX there is a school that recently built a 40k stadium for HIGH SCHOOL football. As in, most of the roster that can't yet drive or shave on a regular basis is drawing nearly ten times in attendance that a pro women's sport league. At most large high schools, both football and basketball (a sport that is played in a high school gym, where noonday gym class takes place) can often exceed 3k without trying.

    So basically, after the third go around for the US attempting to keep a third pro soccer league for women afloat, the best that its elite pro team can manage is about 3k. That is not a sport run for profit, its a tax write off for some multi-millionaire.

    But the main reason that Seattle Reign draws the crowd that it does is largely due to Solo. Now that she's taken a leave of absence from soccer, the crowds will probably plummet.

  87. @Paul Mendez

    "It’s important to have white people stand in support of people of color on this. We don’t need to be the leading voice, of course..."
     
    Unfortunately, this is how most of the white Millennials I know think. Happy to be junior partners in their own dispossession.

    Replies: @ogunsiron, @Buffalo Joe

    I very foolishly predicted a few years ago, to myself, that millenials, having been raised with black classmates, acquaintances, friends, enemies, pop idols, etc would be the white generation that no one would ever be able to be convince that they were evil white racists. I thought that white guilt would never work with those young people. Because they’d know what’s up. Older whites who never grew around blacks can possibly get gaslighted into thinking of themselves as the oppressors of black people, but surely not the millenials, right ? So wrong!

    I figured that most millenials would be able to think of a black person that they get along with AND of black people that they had terrible experiences with. I figured that when told that they’re racist and responsible for black problems, they would all be able to reply something like “i know black people and I know I’m not responsible for their problems”. Either I overestimated the extent to which white millenials actually interact with black people or I grossly understimated the brainwashing powers of the media.

  88. @Alec Leamas
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    That's 13 and 14 year old boys. Makes you wonder why they'd even agree to such matches, given the probability that they'll be thumped and embarrassed, and the point of women's soccer is to make women feel empowerful.

    Replies: @ogunsiron

    given the probability that they’ll be thumped and embarrassed
    —-
    It’s possible that they did not think that they’d lose.
    Quite possible.

  89. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Desiderius


    Of course, ESPN dutifully reported Rapinoe’s protest in their crawler all day yesterday like it was big breaking news.

     

    Not surprising. ESPN's website has morphed into Deadspin Lite; it's pushing all social justice, all the time. I'm disgusted at how infrequently its headline stories these days have anything to do with actual sporting contests. It had been sliding for years into soft SJW-ism, but it then took a huge lurch leftward when they changed the site layout some months ago.

    Replies: @Ivy, @ogunsiron

    ESPN’s website has morphed into Deadspin Lite

    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that “Soldier of fortune” is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

    • Replies: @Anon87
    @ogunsiron

    I was surprised to see Deadspin spit on the grave of Phyllis Schlafly. I knew they had been infested with left leaning writers and stopped clicking years ago, but what does this have to do with sports?? They couldn't even stretch and try to work in something about Title IX. Just pure hate.

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @ogunsiron


    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that “Soldier of fortune” is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

     

    It's true. It's getting harder and harder to try to convince the average 'non-noticing' friend or colleague that there is any alternative perspective to the current vision of the annointed. Almost the whole of the media ocean is tainted with increasingly bold bias and outright propaganda.

    The only comfort is that cultural history has often swung like a pendulum; once a cultural extreme is reached, the swing back begins almost imperceptibly, but then rapidly gains momentum . . . .

    I've thought many times over the past few years that turning point had been reached, and yet onwards to the left we swing . . . .

    Replies: @SteveRogers42, @Desiderius

  90. @ogunsiron
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    ESPN’s website has morphed into Deadspin Lite
    ---
    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that "Soldier of fortune" is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

    Replies: @Anon87, @The Last Real Calvinist

    I was surprised to see Deadspin spit on the grave of Phyllis Schlafly. I knew they had been infested with left leaning writers and stopped clicking years ago, but what does this have to do with sports?? They couldn’t even stretch and try to work in something about Title IX. Just pure hate.

  91. @newrouter
    this woman should find another way to protest if she finds this country so awful:

    {kneel
    nēl/
    verb


    be in or assume a position in which the body is supported by a knee or the knees, as when praying or showing submission.
    "they knelt down and prayed"}

    Replies: @Olorin

    Indeed. One wonders what she is showing submission TO in that posture.

    Being a gay American, I know what it means to look at the flag and not have it protect all of your liberties.

    Oh right. That.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Olorin

    So she kneels in submission, apparently.

  92. @Paul Mendez

    "It’s important to have white people stand in support of people of color on this. We don’t need to be the leading voice, of course..."
     
    Unfortunately, this is how most of the white Millennials I know think. Happy to be junior partners in their own dispossession.

    Replies: @ogunsiron, @Buffalo Joe

    Paul, Ironic that after taking a knee (not actually kneeling) she said …..”Its important to have white people STAND in support of POC on this.” Megan, shut up and sit down!

  93. @Marty T
    My guess is with Rapinoe at the end of her pro soccer "career" she's looking towards social justice activism as her next step. I believe she's the only out lesbo on the US women's soccer team, though there are probably some others who keep it quiet.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Buffalo Joe

    Marty, Rapinoe has the Who? factor. So I don’t see her becoming a spokesperson of any note. Lots of people know who Kaepernick is.

  94. @Abe
    Somewhat related, in its desperate application of KKKrazy Glue to mend increasingly apparent cracks-

    http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/08/03/487610257/after-pulse-shooting-lgbt-folks-of-color-worry-about-increased-police-attention

    After 49 people were killed at the Pulse nightclub in Florida in June, gay pride marches across the country saw amped-up police presence. Law enforcement agencies shared support for LGBT people on social media and in the press. The NYPD rolled out a cop car decorated with rainbows.

    In recent weeks, activists associated with the Black Lives Matter movement and organizations of LGBT people of color have protested greater law enforcement participation in gay pride parades around the country and have called on others to consider the needs of those vulnerable to police violence and harassment.

    These activists say that while police pledge to protect some in LGBT communities, there are patterns of victimization toward others, especially those who aren't cisgender and white.
     
    "After police shot the unarmed black construction worker, there were expressions of fear and concern across the entire community. When the unarmed black sailor was shot, the concern turned to anger. And when the unarmed black Indian Chief was shot, LGBT-aligned Black Lives Matter activists knew they had their cause at last..."

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Abe, BLM/Toronto, an almost totally Lesbian group, blockaded the Toronto Pride parade until parade organizers accepted their list of demands, which included no participation by police groups or police officers. And, LOL, to the last lines of your comment. Comedy gold if one remembers the Village People.

  95. @ogunsiron
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    ESPN’s website has morphed into Deadspin Lite
    ---
    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that "Soldier of fortune" is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

    Replies: @Anon87, @The Last Real Calvinist

    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that “Soldier of fortune” is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

    It’s true. It’s getting harder and harder to try to convince the average ‘non-noticing’ friend or colleague that there is any alternative perspective to the current vision of the annointed. Almost the whole of the media ocean is tainted with increasingly bold bias and outright propaganda.

    The only comfort is that cultural history has often swung like a pendulum; once a cultural extreme is reached, the swing back begins almost imperceptibly, but then rapidly gains momentum . . . .

    I’ve thought many times over the past few years that turning point had been reached, and yet onwards to the left we swing . . . .

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    It's always darkest before The Don.

    , @Desiderius
    @The Last Real Calvinist


    I’ve thought many times over the past few years that turning point had been reached, and yet onwards to the left we swing . . . .
     
    What exactly is Left about it?

    Seems like the usual late imperial rigor mortis.
  96. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    To further illustrate the point regarding famous MLBers of the '20s, when one says the name "Hornsby", most adults today (at least in the Midwest; South; Northeast) will tend to associate the name with the Hard Cider, and not with the former 2B player for St. Louis. (Irony is that Rogers Horsnby wasn't a drinker throughout most of his life).

    Megan Rapinoe is kind of the Dizzy Dean of the US National Team. Talented, but a bit of a goofy oddball with crazy antics on the field. If she had stayed in the closet she would've been known among her fans as an above average player and nothing more. A previous poster speculated that she may be creating controversy for a future career in SJW. Very possible, especially as she's been very outspoken for half a decade within the LGBT community; its just that now the Narrative via the NYT has deigned to take notice of her and make her relevant.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Yojimbo, Michael Sam established himself as a Gay man so he could make some money off of marginal football skills. It worked for his 15 minutes.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Buffalo Joe

    Yes, and the sad irony is that Rapinoe was out and proud from day one and was largely confined to the LGBwwT ghetto for the longest time. She's clearly not about cheap publicity. She's a true believing SJW who really believes the propaganda. She just happens to be an above average starter on the national team. Otherwise she'd have been ignored. With Solo off the team, any publicity for the national team is perhaps better than nothing. However, this could backfire. It used to be that goalscoring forward Abby Wambach kept her personal life private. Wambach would have stood for the flag during the pledge, never publicly commented on it, and that's the difference. Which is partly the reason there's any following for women's soccer among families. With millennials like Rapinoe in the ascendancy, she's not keeping it private and thus runs the risk of alienating a large segment of the fan base (straight suburban families with kids). If she isn't given a talking to by the powers that be, Women's Soccer could go the way of dyke oriented LPGA, Softball or WNBA which is to say, further shrinking attendance figures than what they currently have.

  97. @Steve Sailer
    @meh

    I went to a few pro men's soccer games at big Soldier Field in Chicago (shown in the picture) in the late 1990s, typically on a Boy Scout or school outing. The stadium was typically a quarter full -- say 15,000 or 20,000 people, usually on discounted group tickets. It's a pleasant experience although not very memorable if you aren't a soccer fan.

    The pro soccer league has been trying to get out of huge football stadiums and into stadium they can come close to filling to make the experience more exciting. For example, in L.A. the Galaxy moved from the 90,000 seat Rose Bowl to a custom-built stadium that seats 27,000. I haven't been to a soccer game there, but that seems like a good idea.

    Replies: @meh, @Desiderius, @Buffalo Joe

    Steve, Minor league baseball plays in small, fan friendly stadiums, usually seating fewer than 20k, good business and good baseball, aided by fan friendly promotions. Women’s basketball and women’s soccer are not NBA and MLS lite, so filling a 27k seat stadium seems like a reach.

  98. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Alec Leamas

    I previously mentioned why Alex Morgan will never rival Hope Solo in terms of publicity and personality. Currently there simply aren't any players on the National Team that have transcended into the mainstream and most likely never will be. There isn't anything inherently special about Morgan from say, Mia Hamm. She is this generation's Mia Hamm and nothing more. Alex is the official version of corporate sports: Repeats the party line, never says anything controversial, and is pretty eye candy for the cameras. She'll be forgotten within a decade after retirement.

    Hope Solo, however, is the National Team's all time greatest goalkeeper and she has a distinctive personality without precedent in women's soccer (perhaps even in US Women's Sports).

    Just have to ask one question: If Alex Morgan is all that in the category of generating publicity for women's soccer as a whole, then how come the league is once again on the verge of failing? In other words, she alone can't guarantee major ticket sales. It simply isn't working. If Solo couldn't do it (the biggest name to transcend the sport in the US) there's simply no reason to believe that any other player would.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Alec Leamas

    Yojimbo, Good comment, but according to ESPN and Sports Illustrated, Rhonda Rousey was the greatest female athlete of all time and a major sports personality, uh, until she stepped into the ring with Holly Hahn.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Buffalo Joe

    I agree that in terms of marketability that such names as Serena Williams and Rhonda Rousey have higher Q rating crossover appeal than Solo. I meant of course that Hope Solo is the one US woman athlete playing in a team based sport that is the most recognizable name. I never said that Solo was the greatest woman athlete of all time. I said she is the greatest national team (US SOCCER) goalkeeper of all time and Rousey doesn't play soccer. I also wouldn't say that Rousey is the greatest woman athlete of all time by any stretch. Babe Didricksen out of TX played in the Olympics, singlehandedly started the LPGA, was a champion bowler and pitched to Babe Ruth and Lou Gerhig. In other words she excelled in like half a dozen sports. No one comes close to Babe Didricksen; she was the first woman athlete in the twentieth century to get the media to actually consider that women could actually compete in sports, period.

    Of course, compared to boxers like Floyd Mayweather, Ronda Rousey doesn't get paid anywhere near that. She does make more money than Solo, largely due to the fact that she's gone Hollywood of late. And compared to Serena Williams who owns her own clothing line, owns stock in the Miami Dolphins, and earns ca. 85 million$ per yr, it's Serena Williams hands down that has the largest Q rating for any US athlete in women's sports.

    , @Brutusale
    @Buffalo Joe

    For all the pretenders to that particular title, none have equaled Mildred "Babe" Didrikson Zaharias. Olympic gold medalist in the hurdles and javelin (silver in the high jump), All-American basketball player and winner of 10 LPGA tournaments. She also played in a PGA event 60 years before Annika Sorenstam.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

  99. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @ogunsiron


    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that “Soldier of fortune” is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

     

    It's true. It's getting harder and harder to try to convince the average 'non-noticing' friend or colleague that there is any alternative perspective to the current vision of the annointed. Almost the whole of the media ocean is tainted with increasingly bold bias and outright propaganda.

    The only comfort is that cultural history has often swung like a pendulum; once a cultural extreme is reached, the swing back begins almost imperceptibly, but then rapidly gains momentum . . . .

    I've thought many times over the past few years that turning point had been reached, and yet onwards to the left we swing . . . .

    Replies: @SteveRogers42, @Desiderius

    It’s always darkest before The Don.

  100. @Marcus
    Lesbians really are the bottom of the barrel, at least some gays are good at fashion and interior design.

    Replies: @Ivy

    I had the misfortune of working around a lesbian. When she and her “wife” were feuding, the people in the office stayed out of the way. When she was feeling particularly butch, the women hid and the men laughed at her attempts at interaction, which just stirred her up more. She finally left and people cheered.

    • LOL: Marcus
  101. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Alec Leamas

    I previously mentioned why Alex Morgan will never rival Hope Solo in terms of publicity and personality. Currently there simply aren't any players on the National Team that have transcended into the mainstream and most likely never will be. There isn't anything inherently special about Morgan from say, Mia Hamm. She is this generation's Mia Hamm and nothing more. Alex is the official version of corporate sports: Repeats the party line, never says anything controversial, and is pretty eye candy for the cameras. She'll be forgotten within a decade after retirement.

    Hope Solo, however, is the National Team's all time greatest goalkeeper and she has a distinctive personality without precedent in women's soccer (perhaps even in US Women's Sports).

    Just have to ask one question: If Alex Morgan is all that in the category of generating publicity for women's soccer as a whole, then how come the league is once again on the verge of failing? In other words, she alone can't guarantee major ticket sales. It simply isn't working. If Solo couldn't do it (the biggest name to transcend the sport in the US) there's simply no reason to believe that any other player would.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Alec Leamas

    I think if you are already enough of a fan to know who is a really good player and who isn’t, you’re probably not the target demo to whom the marketers are trying to make an appeal and broaden the fan base. (I don’t know my Solos from my Rapinoes). Alex Morgan projects “I could see my daughter being like this nice pretty girl,” while the tattooed dykes and domestic brawlers don’t.

    Just have to ask one question: If Alex Morgan is all that in the category of generating publicity for women’s soccer as a whole, then how come the league is once again on the verge of failing? In other words, she alone can’t guarantee major ticket sales. It simply isn’t working. If Solo couldn’t do it (the biggest name to transcend the sport in the US) there’s simply no reason to believe that any other player would.

    You’re presenting a false dichotomy. It could be that the league just doesn’t have a sufficient fan base to support it (recall that even in Football crazy America, all professional alternatives to the post-merger NFL have failed). That doesn’t mean that there aren’t players who are more appealing to a broader audience than others, and upon whom the league would be best served basing its brand. The number of female youth soccer players in each of the markets who would be casual fans, attend some games, and buy some merchandise is multiples of the number of potential hardcore lesbian fans in those markets. It makes much more sense to propose that soccer is a pastime that fits within a traditionally wholesome and feminine lifestyle than to allow tattooed, butched up lesbians to be the face of your league.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Alec Leamas

    "(I don’t know my Solos from my Rapinoes)."


    I'll try again. For nearly the last ten yrs, there have been basically two players in US women's soccer. Hope Solo, and everyone else. Hope is the one player that transcended her sport. I daresay you've seen her. She is the one face/name that most non-sports fans or even sports fans but not of soccer in particular recognize. It's like, if you don't know much about the NBA, but you can name Michael Jordan. She's been the only one who has had major crossover appeal.

    "Alex Morgan projects “I could see my daughter being like this nice pretty girl,” while the tattooed dykes and domestic brawlers don’t."

    Na-no, you're missing it. Alex Morgan is a dime a dozen. She's a cookie cutter bland personality which is to say, she hasn't any. It's not really even about tattoos or dykes. It's about personality. Yes, you do need exceptional talent. But talent alone is never enough, especially in this day and age. By virtue of her exceptional talent, and the fact that she plays a traditional goal scoring position (forward) Morgan receives some attention. But compared to other women athletes who make mega bucks and have crossover appeal? She has zip.

    For better or for worse, US Soccer willingly accepted long ago the fact that Solo had great talent but she also carried with her major baggage. Also, she speaks her mind, whether you want to hear it or not. She is just as known for her controversies on and off the field as she is for what she does on the pitch. In some ways, considering that US women's soccer really isn't all that from a revenue generating position, it's a good thing. There's no such thing as bad publicity. It's not exactly fair for them to ban her now after all the stuff she's done over the years, while acting as if they had absolutely no idea whatsoever she was this way.

    I think that women's sports in general but women's soccer in particular simply don't know how to handle unique, rebellious, non-confomist personalities. These types of players abound in men's sports and everyone seems ok with it, at least so long as they have talent on the field. The powers that be really haven't matured since ca.1990, where its the All American Team, go for the gold, our daughters an families love to watch this game, etc. Well, when you get down to it, that's how MLB was long marketed for decades while the players played on sub par conditions and were paid pittance compared to what the owners raked in. US Soccer, particularly among the women, are paid horribly and play on sub-standard conditions (last yrs World Cup was played not on traditional grass but artificial turf, the kind that the Astrodome used to use). In that sense, this could be considered sexism in sports and the women's team has a point that they have a right to be paid better for their national contributions as well as expect to play on the same surface that the men play on at their world cup.

    For better or worse, Solo has helped call attention to these issues, during the few times she decides to speak on them. It is mostly about her, that's true. But know what? Egoism in sports isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's common enough in all men's sports and perhaps its high time the women's sports played catch up in this department. In this way, they just might produce some stand out personalities which could help drive up attendance figures.

    But ultimately, the tats, butches, etc. aren't the main draw. What gets casual fans interest is distinctive personalities (just as in men's sports). Without distinctive personalities, you get corporate cookie cutter dull bland boring nameless faceless players. And that seldom turns a profit.












    "That doesn’t mean that there aren’t players who are more appealing to a broader audience than others, and upon whom the league would be best served basing its brand."

    Uh, yes, you just made my point. The league did that for nearly ten yrs. They based a large amount of their attention and their brand around Solo, namely because she alone was getting the most attention in the mainstream. And now she's banned. Unfortunately they don't have anyone else that has transcended the sport in the way that she has and so they're back to square one. US Women's Soccer, from a pure profit perspective, is still no better off than the mid. 90's right before they won the WC. And with the '16 Olympics they just came home without a medal, the first time in over twenty yrs when they failed to win something.

  102. @BB753
    @Alec Leamas

    All in all, soccer is a very masculine sport. Almost as much as rugby. If I were the dad of a young girl, I'd keep her away from soccer and basketball and steer her toward volleyball or field hockey, which are much more feminine and ladylike in nature, and don't tend to attract butch dykes. For individual sports, there's ping pong and badminton.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas

    You must not be familiar with rugby.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Alec Leamas

    I'm more familiar with soccer. But I've both played and watched rugby matches. What I mean is no pussy ever played professional soccer. (no pun intended).

  103. Other than white knights and lesbians, who watches women’s soccer?

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Cuckold fetishists. The kind of perverts who get turned on by butt-kicking babes and anime.

  104. @Alec Leamas
    @BB753

    You must not be familiar with rugby.

    Replies: @BB753

    I’m more familiar with soccer. But I’ve both played and watched rugby matches. What I mean is no pussy ever played professional soccer. (no pun intended).

  105. @bossel

    nobody cares at all about the women’s professional league
     
    At least 3355 seemed to care enough to go & watch Seattle Reign vs. Chicago Red Stars. ( https://www.reignfc.com/#news ) That's slightly more than nobody, I suppose. But for someone who only seems to think how to "make a lot more money" that's probably not enough.

    Nationalist idiots probably won't get it, but there are actually people who care about the sports they watch, not only about some silly symbolism, national or otherwise.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Seattle Reign, the pro club that Hope Solo plays for. The Reign actually has some national team members on it. However, 3,355 in attendance for an actual grown up professional sport is a failure.
    Obviously if this were a men’s team, everyone here would instinctively understand that. Most high school football teams can attract about 5k on a typical Friday night. In TX there is a school that recently built a 40k stadium for HIGH SCHOOL football. As in, most of the roster that can’t yet drive or shave on a regular basis is drawing nearly ten times in attendance that a pro women’s sport league. At most large high schools, both football and basketball (a sport that is played in a high school gym, where noonday gym class takes place) can often exceed 3k without trying.

    So basically, after the third go around for the US attempting to keep a third pro soccer league for women afloat, the best that its elite pro team can manage is about 3k. That is not a sport run for profit, its a tax write off for some multi-millionaire.

    But the main reason that Seattle Reign draws the crowd that it does is largely due to Solo. Now that she’s taken a leave of absence from soccer, the crowds will probably plummet.

  106. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @ogunsiron


    All areas of journalism are infected. All of jounalism. Sports, science, tech, music, various hobbies,, religion, etc. I suppose that “Soldier of fortune” is not yet sjw-converged but who knows.

     

    It's true. It's getting harder and harder to try to convince the average 'non-noticing' friend or colleague that there is any alternative perspective to the current vision of the annointed. Almost the whole of the media ocean is tainted with increasingly bold bias and outright propaganda.

    The only comfort is that cultural history has often swung like a pendulum; once a cultural extreme is reached, the swing back begins almost imperceptibly, but then rapidly gains momentum . . . .

    I've thought many times over the past few years that turning point had been reached, and yet onwards to the left we swing . . . .

    Replies: @SteveRogers42, @Desiderius

    I’ve thought many times over the past few years that turning point had been reached, and yet onwards to the left we swing . . . .

    What exactly is Left about it?

    Seems like the usual late imperial rigor mortis.

  107. @Alec Leamas
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I think if you are already enough of a fan to know who is a really good player and who isn't, you're probably not the target demo to whom the marketers are trying to make an appeal and broaden the fan base. (I don't know my Solos from my Rapinoes). Alex Morgan projects "I could see my daughter being like this nice pretty girl," while the tattooed dykes and domestic brawlers don't.


    Just have to ask one question: If Alex Morgan is all that in the category of generating publicity for women’s soccer as a whole, then how come the league is once again on the verge of failing? In other words, she alone can’t guarantee major ticket sales. It simply isn’t working. If Solo couldn’t do it (the biggest name to transcend the sport in the US) there’s simply no reason to believe that any other player would.
     
    You're presenting a false dichotomy. It could be that the league just doesn't have a sufficient fan base to support it (recall that even in Football crazy America, all professional alternatives to the post-merger NFL have failed). That doesn't mean that there aren't players who are more appealing to a broader audience than others, and upon whom the league would be best served basing its brand. The number of female youth soccer players in each of the markets who would be casual fans, attend some games, and buy some merchandise is multiples of the number of potential hardcore lesbian fans in those markets. It makes much more sense to propose that soccer is a pastime that fits within a traditionally wholesome and feminine lifestyle than to allow tattooed, butched up lesbians to be the face of your league.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    “(I don’t know my Solos from my Rapinoes).”

    I’ll try again. For nearly the last ten yrs, there have been basically two players in US women’s soccer. Hope Solo, and everyone else. Hope is the one player that transcended her sport. I daresay you’ve seen her. She is the one face/name that most non-sports fans or even sports fans but not of soccer in particular recognize. It’s like, if you don’t know much about the NBA, but you can name Michael Jordan. She’s been the only one who has had major crossover appeal.

    “Alex Morgan projects “I could see my daughter being like this nice pretty girl,” while the tattooed dykes and domestic brawlers don’t.”

    Na-no, you’re missing it. Alex Morgan is a dime a dozen. She’s a cookie cutter bland personality which is to say, she hasn’t any. It’s not really even about tattoos or dykes. It’s about personality. Yes, you do need exceptional talent. But talent alone is never enough, especially in this day and age. By virtue of her exceptional talent, and the fact that she plays a traditional goal scoring position (forward) Morgan receives some attention. But compared to other women athletes who make mega bucks and have crossover appeal? She has zip.

    For better or for worse, US Soccer willingly accepted long ago the fact that Solo had great talent but she also carried with her major baggage. Also, she speaks her mind, whether you want to hear it or not. She is just as known for her controversies on and off the field as she is for what she does on the pitch. In some ways, considering that US women’s soccer really isn’t all that from a revenue generating position, it’s a good thing. There’s no such thing as bad publicity. It’s not exactly fair for them to ban her now after all the stuff she’s done over the years, while acting as if they had absolutely no idea whatsoever she was this way.

    I think that women’s sports in general but women’s soccer in particular simply don’t know how to handle unique, rebellious, non-confomist personalities. These types of players abound in men’s sports and everyone seems ok with it, at least so long as they have talent on the field. The powers that be really haven’t matured since ca.1990, where its the All American Team, go for the gold, our daughters an families love to watch this game, etc. Well, when you get down to it, that’s how MLB was long marketed for decades while the players played on sub par conditions and were paid pittance compared to what the owners raked in. US Soccer, particularly among the women, are paid horribly and play on sub-standard conditions (last yrs World Cup was played not on traditional grass but artificial turf, the kind that the Astrodome used to use). In that sense, this could be considered sexism in sports and the women’s team has a point that they have a right to be paid better for their national contributions as well as expect to play on the same surface that the men play on at their world cup.

    For better or worse, Solo has helped call attention to these issues, during the few times she decides to speak on them. It is mostly about her, that’s true. But know what? Egoism in sports isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s common enough in all men’s sports and perhaps its high time the women’s sports played catch up in this department. In this way, they just might produce some stand out personalities which could help drive up attendance figures.

    But ultimately, the tats, butches, etc. aren’t the main draw. What gets casual fans interest is distinctive personalities (just as in men’s sports). Without distinctive personalities, you get corporate cookie cutter dull bland boring nameless faceless players. And that seldom turns a profit.

    “That doesn’t mean that there aren’t players who are more appealing to a broader audience than others, and upon whom the league would be best served basing its brand.”

    Uh, yes, you just made my point. The league did that for nearly ten yrs. They based a large amount of their attention and their brand around Solo, namely because she alone was getting the most attention in the mainstream. And now she’s banned. Unfortunately they don’t have anyone else that has transcended the sport in the way that she has and so they’re back to square one. US Women’s Soccer, from a pure profit perspective, is still no better off than the mid. 90’s right before they won the WC. And with the ’16 Olympics they just came home without a medal, the first time in over twenty yrs when they failed to win something.

  108. @Buffalo Joe
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yojimbo, Good comment, but according to ESPN and Sports Illustrated, Rhonda Rousey was the greatest female athlete of all time and a major sports personality, uh, until she stepped into the ring with Holly Hahn.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Brutusale

    I agree that in terms of marketability that such names as Serena Williams and Rhonda Rousey have higher Q rating crossover appeal than Solo. I meant of course that Hope Solo is the one US woman athlete playing in a team based sport that is the most recognizable name. I never said that Solo was the greatest woman athlete of all time. I said she is the greatest national team (US SOCCER) goalkeeper of all time and Rousey doesn’t play soccer. I also wouldn’t say that Rousey is the greatest woman athlete of all time by any stretch. Babe Didricksen out of TX played in the Olympics, singlehandedly started the LPGA, was a champion bowler and pitched to Babe Ruth and Lou Gerhig. In other words she excelled in like half a dozen sports. No one comes close to Babe Didricksen; she was the first woman athlete in the twentieth century to get the media to actually consider that women could actually compete in sports, period.

    Of course, compared to boxers like Floyd Mayweather, Ronda Rousey doesn’t get paid anywhere near that. She does make more money than Solo, largely due to the fact that she’s gone Hollywood of late. And compared to Serena Williams who owns her own clothing line, owns stock in the Miami Dolphins, and earns ca. 85 million$ per yr, it’s Serena Williams hands down that has the largest Q rating for any US athlete in women’s sports.

  109. @Buffalo Joe
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yojimbo, Michael Sam established himself as a Gay man so he could make some money off of marginal football skills. It worked for his 15 minutes.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yes, and the sad irony is that Rapinoe was out and proud from day one and was largely confined to the LGBwwT ghetto for the longest time. She’s clearly not about cheap publicity. She’s a true believing SJW who really believes the propaganda. She just happens to be an above average starter on the national team. Otherwise she’d have been ignored. With Solo off the team, any publicity for the national team is perhaps better than nothing. However, this could backfire. It used to be that goalscoring forward Abby Wambach kept her personal life private. Wambach would have stood for the flag during the pledge, never publicly commented on it, and that’s the difference. Which is partly the reason there’s any following for women’s soccer among families. With millennials like Rapinoe in the ascendancy, she’s not keeping it private and thus runs the risk of alienating a large segment of the fan base (straight suburban families with kids). If she isn’t given a talking to by the powers that be, Women’s Soccer could go the way of dyke oriented LPGA, Softball or WNBA which is to say, further shrinking attendance figures than what they currently have.

  110. @Marty T
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Isnt getting rid of Solo addition by subtraction? She's so unlikable I bet many players on the team can't stand her. They need to promote the young and pretty ones like Morgan and Johnston.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Reg Cæsar

    Not really. What Solo did do was help drive attendance figures (remember this is women’s soccer so its all relative to what they’d usually get). Over most of this decade, she had the biggest entourage, and the most media people around her wherever she went. That wasn’t a coincidence.

    It’s not up to the league to promote Alex Morgan or Julie Johnston. They have to promote themselves nonstop in the same manner that Solo promoted herself. The fact that they haven’t done so, is on them. Most of the players don’t seem to want to make more money and really don’t appear to be seeking more publicity for themselves, and that’s on them. If Hope had “waited” for US Soccer to promote her instead of doing it herself, she’d still be the unknown goalie. If they want the fame, endorsements, etc. why aren’t they going for it? Why aren’t they making it happen and trying to get attention the way Solo did? It worked for her.

    She figured out long ago that if its to be its up to herself. The league couldn’t care less about any one individual member. In fact, they’d much prefer that no one member stands out so that they continue to be lowballed in contracts and get paid peanuts. But there’s a reason why she’s been the highest paid player on the team, because she and her agent/publicist wanted the fame while the other players do not. Shame, cause they’re only being manipulated by the powers that be.

    Example: Solo’s one teammate scored the winning goal in the ’08 Olympics final; in the ’12 Olympics final; and in the final at the ’15 World Cup. I dare say that most casual fans of sports have never heard of her and wouldn’t know what she looks like, even though she’s been on the starting roster or mostly playing for over ten yrs. She doesn’t make anything like what Solo earns. Why is that? Because she’s not consciously seeking publicity in the same way as Hope Solo and of course the Federation isn’t about to promote her.

  111. @meh
    @Steve Sailer

    Pretty much all of the MLS clubs have, or are in the process of getting, smaller SSS (soccer specific stadia) where they can get the kind of crowd atmosphere they can't get in giant NFL stadia. And, more importantly, where they can control the revenue streams (parking, concessions, pro shop, commercial sponsorships, etc.); for instance when they played at Soldier Field every time the Chicago Fire sold a t-shirt or a hot dog, the money went into the pockets of the Chicago Bears owners, not to the Chicago Fire.

    One exception: Seattle Sounders, who play in the same stadium as the NFL Seahawks and can fill the stadium up to 40,000 most nights and sell it out occasionally for big games against, for instance, regional rivals Portland Timbers (who play in a smaller 20,000 seater in Portland).

    Atlanta is joining MLS next year, also playing in a huge new NFL stadium, but they've gotten enough season ticket holders that they look likely to repeat the Seattle scenario, and mostly fill it up.

    It seems to work (sharing the larger NFL stadium instead of building a smaller SSS) if the NFL owner also is owner or part owner of the MLS team, and the stadium is located downtown so the white urban hipsters can take public transit to the games. The New England Revolution does not draw as well in an NFL stadium, which is located out in the suburbs.

    There's also going to be a second LA team in MLS, they are building a new SSS next to the LA Coliseum, on the site of the old Memorial Sports Arena, in the 22,000 seat range.

    The Chicago Fire built one of the first of the newer SSS a decade ago now, 20,000 seats, but it is out in the suburbs in Bridgeview so they have had trouble regularly selling out the stadium (that, and the Fire have sucked badly for a while now which does not help) due to people not wanting to drive out to the suburbs for games.

    There's a group trying to build an urban SSS in Chicago, for a potential NASL team, most likely to go under the old NASL name Chicago Sting. Getting a stadium built in an urban city like Chicago is difficult; MLS and NASL both have teams trying to build SSS in New York City. DC United looks to be finally getting its SSS built in urban Washington DC after over a decade of trying to get it done.

    It's been a pretty big effort; lots of new stadia being built for soccer over the past couple of decades; especially in the past decade. This would never happen for women's soccer of course; the interest and passion is just not there to justify that kind of investment.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Reg Cæsar

    The “Revolution” is also held back by its ridiculous name. You almost expect it to break out into “Little Red Corvette”. The 1970s are only just ending for American soccer marketers.

    The sad part is that Boston can claim America’s first football team of any kind, the Oneida Football Club of 1862. It doesn’t occur to soccer people in the Hub to revive that name?

    Among Oneida’s roster were the names Edward Lincoln Arnold, John Malcolm Forbes, Francis Greenwood Peabody, Winthrop Saltonstall Scudder, and Huntington Frothingham Wolcott. Not a Travon or Schitavious in sight.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Reg Cæsar

    They're called Revolution because they're the little brothers of the Patriots. Bob Kraft owns both teams.

    They should have resurrected the name of the original NASL Boston team, the Minutemen.

  112. @Marty T
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Isnt getting rid of Solo addition by subtraction? She's so unlikable I bet many players on the team can't stand her. They need to promote the young and pretty ones like Morgan and Johnston.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Reg Cæsar

    They need to promote the young and pretty ones like Morgan and Johnston

    They need to play in the nude.

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    @Reg Cæsar

    Shorts and skins?

  113. @Reg Cæsar
    @Marty T


    They need to promote the young and pretty ones like Morgan and Johnston
     
    They need to play in the nude.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42

    Shorts and skins?

  114. @James Kabala
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    In individual timed sports the gap seems to be much less absurd. The top woman in the most recent Boston Marathon finished 29th overall, which means she beat thousands of men. Katie Ledecky has (supposedly - not sure if this has been fully documented) beaten men (not Phelps-level men, but men) in practice heats. Why is it so much worse in team sports?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @SteveRogers42, @Triumph104

    Top marathoners only compete two or three times a year so major competitions like the Boston Marathon only have a few world-level runners and a lot of weekend warriors. The top woman finished 29th overall because few world-levels entered the men’s race.

    Far more world-levels enter the Olympic marathon, 155 men started the Rio marathon with 140 finishing. The top woman finished 90th overall.

  115. So Soccer is now the sole province of Lesbians?

    At least, that’s how the average fan will take it. Expect girls soccer leagues to fold rapidly, as girls avoid the lesbian label to pursue boys.

    Cross country benefits, as does dance, cheerleading, etc. None of those are particularly lesbian.

    But, women’s soccer is likely very happy to be all Lesbian, all the time. At least in perception. And also against the Flag and America.

  116. @Brutusale
    @meh

    The Revs get less than a third of the crowd the Patriots get. They cover one side of the stadium for soccer.
    Running the soccer team gives Bob Kraft's son something to do.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Getting 20,000 people for a soccer game in the U.S. is not bad. That’s probably more than the average major league baseball game before a few decades ago.

    The 1927 Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig in their primes averaged about 16,000 per game in a stadium that seated over 60,000.

    It seems like soccer has developed a pretty solid niche in the U.S. as a spectator sport.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Steve Sailer

    The Revs' forefathers, the New England Tea Men (Lipton was the sponsor), used to draw, 14,000-15,000 at the same location back in the 70s. Growth like that is reminiscent of the Obama economy!

    The attendance is a specious number, anyway. I saw the Revs play once back in 2004. A friend was the head brewer for a small chain of brewpubs in the area, and they had a promotion: lunch at the pub, bus to the stadium with kegs of beer on board, tailgating with the kegs, Revs game, tailgating with the kegs after the game and bus home...all for $30! How much do you think they paid for the tickets? We only went because they were playing DC United and it was the first local appearance of the 14-year old Freddy Adu.

    It's mostly regional. When the Red $ox win, they sell out. When the Red $ox suck, they sell out. During the 60s, when the Bruins were mostly also-rans (pre-Bobby Orr), they still outdrew the Celtics, who were in the middle of their unprecedented championship run.

    As an LA guy, I'm sure you don't want to think about the Celtics teams in the 60s!

    High school and college football aren't important around here. I remember how surprising it was to see some of the big high school football stadiums in Florida, a lot of which are bigger than college stadiums in MA.

    Back in the 90s, it was funny to hear a couple football fans from a southern college, up in Boston to watch their school play my alma mater, comment after using the facilities in the gleaming 8,000-seat hockey arena, festooned with the requisite Hockey East/NCAA championship banners, "Boy, these Yankees like their ice hockey!".

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Steve Sailer

    Hold it hold it. Yankee Stadium opened in '23 and generally, at least for the World Series, would top 70-75,000 in attendance. I have to assume that at least for the first few yrs it opened, and this being NY, that attendance figures were 2-3x higher than other cities. In fact the Yankees for most of the 20's and 30's averaged more in attendance than any other AL club in MLB.

    It's a fact that Babe Ruth was the biggest attendance draw in all of MLB during the '20's. During the '27 WS vs. PIT, Yankee Stadium had crowds around 70-75,000. It was packed. I have to assume that for most of their home games, Yankee Stadium at least averaged 30-40,000 for each home game. This is Babe Ruth. And he was the biggest MLB draw throughout the decade of the '20's and perhaps early 30's. I know that in the 50's, the Yankees's attendance was pitiful in comparison to other teams around MLB. When Roger Maris broke Ruth's single season record in '61 the place wasn't even half full. I've never fully understood that. Yes, with the post war boom many folks moved out to the suburbs but still. This is NY. How could they not be leading the league in attendance? They were the Yankees, the winners. The Brooklyn Dodgers averaged about 1 million in attendance which is one reason Walter O'Malley moved the team to LA in after '57.

  117. The 1927 Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig in their primes averaged about 16,000 per game in a stadium that seated over 60,000.

    In the late 1920s, New York City had at least three-fourths the number of residents that it has now. (In 1920, the city’s population was about 5.5 million; in 1930, nearly 7 million; in 2016, roughly 8.5 million.) But the number of spectators at the average Yankees home game has more than doubled, to about 38,500.

    Meanwhile, the U.S. population has nearly tripled – from 119 million to 322 million – since then.

    For the U.S. as a whole, 20,000 fans in 2016 is equivalent to 7,391 fans in 1927.

    But, yes, soccer has made some inroads.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Stan Adams

    One big leap forward in baseball attendance was 1946 when the boys came back from the war, had some money in their pockets, and wanted to get out and go somewhere, like to the ballpark.

    Another great age of increasing baseball attendance was 1977-1993, an era of expansion in the number of teams. Since then attendance hasn't gone up all that much, although I imagine revenue has boomed as ballparks have gotten smaller. Dodger Stadium, for example, is now a Modernist relic with its 56,000 seat capacity. Most existing ballparks built since then are significantly smaller. The typical team comes fairly close to selling out most games nowadays, which drives up ticket prices and incidentals.

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Stan Adams

    But women's soccer has not made inroads among sports fans, particularly men. Men are simply not going to watch women's soccer, especially if they have other options (and they usually always do).

    In 2016, any sports team that averages at best 3,300 in attendance is a failure. And that's the top club, the others average less than 1,000. At the NCAA level, most all of the women's soccer teams average about 600-800, and only a few reach the 1,000 mark. UCLA for example averages about 1,100 in attendance for home games. Of course, UCLA's main campus is what? About 30,000 students. The football team averages about 70,000 or so. So that's a big difference in attendance.

    And this is the third go around for a women's professional soccer league and at best it still has to play its venues at high school football stadiums (where they can't even fill that venue) and the clubs can't afford the stars that play on the National Team so there's now an arrangement where the US Soccer Federation directly pays the salaries of their US Team players because obviously the pro league can't afford to pay the stars anything.

  118. @Stan Adams

    The 1927 Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig in their primes averaged about 16,000 per game in a stadium that seated over 60,000.
     
    In the late 1920s, New York City had at least three-fourths the number of residents that it has now. (In 1920, the city's population was about 5.5 million; in 1930, nearly 7 million; in 2016, roughly 8.5 million.) But the number of spectators at the average Yankees home game has more than doubled, to about 38,500.

    Meanwhile, the U.S. population has nearly tripled - from 119 million to 322 million - since then.

    For the U.S. as a whole, 20,000 fans in 2016 is equivalent to 7,391 fans in 1927.

    But, yes, soccer has made some inroads.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    One big leap forward in baseball attendance was 1946 when the boys came back from the war, had some money in their pockets, and wanted to get out and go somewhere, like to the ballpark.

    Another great age of increasing baseball attendance was 1977-1993, an era of expansion in the number of teams. Since then attendance hasn’t gone up all that much, although I imagine revenue has boomed as ballparks have gotten smaller. Dodger Stadium, for example, is now a Modernist relic with its 56,000 seat capacity. Most existing ballparks built since then are significantly smaller. The typical team comes fairly close to selling out most games nowadays, which drives up ticket prices and incidentals.

  119. @Buffalo Joe
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Yojimbo, Good comment, but according to ESPN and Sports Illustrated, Rhonda Rousey was the greatest female athlete of all time and a major sports personality, uh, until she stepped into the ring with Holly Hahn.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @Brutusale

    For all the pretenders to that particular title, none have equaled Mildred “Babe” Didrikson Zaharias. Olympic gold medalist in the hurdles and javelin (silver in the high jump), All-American basketball player and winner of 10 LPGA tournaments. She also played in a PGA event 60 years before Annika Sorenstam.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Brutusale

    She also played softball, pitched to Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, founded the LPGA, and was a champion bowler. She was a sports phenomenon, where every single sport she tried her hand at she was good to great.

  120. @Johnny Smoggins
    Other than white knights and lesbians, who watches women's soccer?

    Replies: @BB753

    Cuckold fetishists. The kind of perverts who get turned on by butt-kicking babes and anime.

  121. @Steve Sailer
    @Brutusale

    Getting 20,000 people for a soccer game in the U.S. is not bad. That's probably more than the average major league baseball game before a few decades ago.

    The 1927 Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig in their primes averaged about 16,000 per game in a stadium that seated over 60,000.

    It seems like soccer has developed a pretty solid niche in the U.S. as a spectator sport.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    The Revs’ forefathers, the New England Tea Men (Lipton was the sponsor), used to draw, 14,000-15,000 at the same location back in the 70s. Growth like that is reminiscent of the Obama economy!

    The attendance is a specious number, anyway. I saw the Revs play once back in 2004. A friend was the head brewer for a small chain of brewpubs in the area, and they had a promotion: lunch at the pub, bus to the stadium with kegs of beer on board, tailgating with the kegs, Revs game, tailgating with the kegs after the game and bus home…all for $30! How much do you think they paid for the tickets? We only went because they were playing DC United and it was the first local appearance of the 14-year old Freddy Adu.

    It’s mostly regional. When the Red $ox win, they sell out. When the Red $ox suck, they sell out. During the 60s, when the Bruins were mostly also-rans (pre-Bobby Orr), they still outdrew the Celtics, who were in the middle of their unprecedented championship run.

    As an LA guy, I’m sure you don’t want to think about the Celtics teams in the 60s!

    High school and college football aren’t important around here. I remember how surprising it was to see some of the big high school football stadiums in Florida, a lot of which are bigger than college stadiums in MA.

    Back in the 90s, it was funny to hear a couple football fans from a southern college, up in Boston to watch their school play my alma mater, comment after using the facilities in the gleaming 8,000-seat hockey arena, festooned with the requisite Hockey East/NCAA championship banners, “Boy, these Yankees like their ice hockey!”.

  122. @Reg Cæsar
    @meh

    The "Revolution" is also held back by its ridiculous name. You almost expect it to break out into "Little Red Corvette". The 1970s are only just ending for American soccer marketers.

    The sad part is that Boston can claim America's first football team of any kind, the Oneida Football Club of 1862. It doesn't occur to soccer people in the Hub to revive that name?

    Among Oneida's roster were the names Edward Lincoln Arnold, John Malcolm Forbes, Francis Greenwood Peabody, Winthrop Saltonstall Scudder, and Huntington Frothingham Wolcott. Not a Travon or Schitavious in sight.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    They’re called Revolution because they’re the little brothers of the Patriots. Bob Kraft owns both teams.

    They should have resurrected the name of the original NASL Boston team, the Minutemen.

  123. @Steve Sailer
    @Brutusale

    Getting 20,000 people for a soccer game in the U.S. is not bad. That's probably more than the average major league baseball game before a few decades ago.

    The 1927 Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig in their primes averaged about 16,000 per game in a stadium that seated over 60,000.

    It seems like soccer has developed a pretty solid niche in the U.S. as a spectator sport.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Hold it hold it. Yankee Stadium opened in ’23 and generally, at least for the World Series, would top 70-75,000 in attendance. I have to assume that at least for the first few yrs it opened, and this being NY, that attendance figures were 2-3x higher than other cities. In fact the Yankees for most of the 20’s and 30’s averaged more in attendance than any other AL club in MLB.

    It’s a fact that Babe Ruth was the biggest attendance draw in all of MLB during the ’20’s. During the ’27 WS vs. PIT, Yankee Stadium had crowds around 70-75,000. It was packed. I have to assume that for most of their home games, Yankee Stadium at least averaged 30-40,000 for each home game. This is Babe Ruth. And he was the biggest MLB draw throughout the decade of the ’20’s and perhaps early 30’s. I know that in the 50’s, the Yankees’s attendance was pitiful in comparison to other teams around MLB. When Roger Maris broke Ruth’s single season record in ’61 the place wasn’t even half full. I’ve never fully understood that. Yes, with the post war boom many folks moved out to the suburbs but still. This is NY. How could they not be leading the league in attendance? They were the Yankees, the winners. The Brooklyn Dodgers averaged about 1 million in attendance which is one reason Walter O’Malley moved the team to LA in after ’57.

  124. @Brutusale
    @Buffalo Joe

    For all the pretenders to that particular title, none have equaled Mildred "Babe" Didrikson Zaharias. Olympic gold medalist in the hurdles and javelin (silver in the high jump), All-American basketball player and winner of 10 LPGA tournaments. She also played in a PGA event 60 years before Annika Sorenstam.

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    She also played softball, pitched to Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, founded the LPGA, and was a champion bowler. She was a sports phenomenon, where every single sport she tried her hand at she was good to great.

  125. @Stan Adams

    The 1927 Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig in their primes averaged about 16,000 per game in a stadium that seated over 60,000.
     
    In the late 1920s, New York City had at least three-fourths the number of residents that it has now. (In 1920, the city's population was about 5.5 million; in 1930, nearly 7 million; in 2016, roughly 8.5 million.) But the number of spectators at the average Yankees home game has more than doubled, to about 38,500.

    Meanwhile, the U.S. population has nearly tripled - from 119 million to 322 million - since then.

    For the U.S. as a whole, 20,000 fans in 2016 is equivalent to 7,391 fans in 1927.

    But, yes, soccer has made some inroads.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    But women’s soccer has not made inroads among sports fans, particularly men. Men are simply not going to watch women’s soccer, especially if they have other options (and they usually always do).

    In 2016, any sports team that averages at best 3,300 in attendance is a failure. And that’s the top club, the others average less than 1,000. At the NCAA level, most all of the women’s soccer teams average about 600-800, and only a few reach the 1,000 mark. UCLA for example averages about 1,100 in attendance for home games. Of course, UCLA’s main campus is what? About 30,000 students. The football team averages about 70,000 or so. So that’s a big difference in attendance.

    And this is the third go around for a women’s professional soccer league and at best it still has to play its venues at high school football stadiums (where they can’t even fill that venue) and the clubs can’t afford the stars that play on the National Team so there’s now an arrangement where the US Soccer Federation directly pays the salaries of their US Team players because obviously the pro league can’t afford to pay the stars anything.

  126. @Olorin
    @newrouter

    Indeed. One wonders what she is showing submission TO in that posture.


    Being a gay American, I know what it means to look at the flag and not have it protect all of your liberties.
     
    Oh right. That.

    Replies: @Forbes

    So she kneels in submission, apparently.

  127. @Honesthughgrant
    Very funny Steve. People need to understand that the USA soccer team does so well because in most of the world no one cares about women's soccer.

    In most of the world, soccer is the THE NO. 1 men's sport. And the gap between that and women's soccer is so large no cares about it. Women - in those countries - don't want to play it, and men don't want to watch it.

    Imagine if the USA was to enter a women's (American) football team in the Olympics or a women's hardball/baseball team. Who would care? It would be seen as a joke.

    Even as a causal 'murican fan, i can see the gap in ability. The women are slow, can't kick very far or very fast, and can't jump. I"m sure any English League team could beat the USA national women's team without any difficulty.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @BB753, @SteveRogers42, @namae nanka, @AndrewR, @Kyle

    In most of the world people don’t care about women. Nobody signs their girls up for little league soccer. Even Europe doesn’t do that.

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