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Identical Twins Who Aren't Exactly Identical
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The best team in the NBA so far this season is Milwaukee. The Bucks are 46-8. Interestingly, they feature identical twin centers, the veteran seven-footers out of Stanford Brook and Robin Lopez.

For awhile they were publicly agnostic on whether they were identical or fraternal twins. It’s not impossible for two extremely tall brothers not to be identical twins — Pau Gasol is listed at 7’0″ and his 3-year younger brother Marc is 6’11” — but it’s not too likely. I gather that now the Lopezes are assumed to be identical twins.

But the Lopez brothers are fairly different, whether innately or through choice. A 2015 NYT article said:

Brook and Robin Lopez, With Identical Genes, Are Often a Study in Contrasts

The Lopez twins, Brook, left, and Robin, are the N.B.A.’s version of Bizarro World.

By Benjamin Hoffman, July 5, 2015

Brook is the starter on the Bucks and has been considerably better over the course of their careers, averaging 17 points and 6 rebounds per game in the NBA. He favors a clean cut look and has the nickname Bropez.

Robin is the backup this year. Over his career he has averaged 9 points and 5 rebounds per game. In contrast to his brother, he usually partakes of a Che Guevara look (their father is Cuban, their mother is white American), and is a witty presence on social media, while his brother hasn’t much tried to be a fan favorite.

Brook has made $121 million in his 11 year NBA career, while Robin has had to get by on $79 million.

The previous pair of NBA identical twin big men out of Stanford, Jason and Jarron Collins, made history when the former announced he was gay.

There have been other pairs of identical twins in the NBA, such as Horace and Harvey Grant.

Horace, minutes older and years more mature, is masterful at working near the basket. The free-spirited Harvey prefers to play on the perimeter and shoot jump shots over more physical rivals. “It just happened that way,” said Horace. “I always wanted to play a center, a power forward. Harvey was more like a guard, a finesse player.”

Horace’s choice to defer to his twin’s desire to be the shooter of the pair worked out for him in the NBA. Even though he was skinny for an NBA power forward, he worked out very well when he wound up on the Chicago Bulls, playing third banana to Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, winning 3 NBA titles, then winning another with the 2001 Los Angeles Lakers, led by Shaquille O’Neal and the late Kobe Bryant.

Most NBA players grow up being, by far, the best player on their high school teams, so it can be hard for them to adjust to being a role-player in the NBA. Identical twins in the NBA have the advantage of growing up competing against an NBA level talent who sleeps in the same bunk bed, and they learn that talent alone isn’t enough.

 
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  1. The complement of “innate” is not “by choice.” It is “via experience.”

  2. Scotty Pippen played basketball? I thought he was a member of the Beatles.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=3Z2vU8M6CYI

    • LOL: Desiderius
  3. NBA twins Marcus and Markieff Morris are often referred to as identical despite their mother once having said that they are fraternal. The brothers have nearly identical tattoos and shared a bank account when they both played for the Phoenix Suns.

  4. I don’t know, my impression is that if Robin cut his hair short and shaved his beard he would look pretty identical to his brother

  5. Anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:

    Interestingly, the Bucks feature two pairs of brothers: The Lopez twins and the Antetokuompo brothers. Giannis Antetokuompo is having the best season ever (by the Player Efficiency Rating (dubious though somewhat predictive) metric.) His younger brother, Thanasis, hardly sees the court. Perhaps Giannis (a spry 7-footer) pulled some strings in the front office to get his brother (less athletic and a paltry 6’7”) drafted. The Lopez brothers seem to have gotten by on their respective merits.

  6. Look here, they look identical:

  7. OT:

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Obviously.

    https://media.tenor.co/images/377f2b6536db966d6b05936c7f0d8343/raw
    , @Anonymous
    This pro forma denuncio has the air of medieval buffoonery.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71vtSKetUE


    The Bastard King of England

    Oh, the minstrels sing of an English King of many long years ago
    Who ruled his land with an iron hand though his mind was weak and low.
    He love to shag the royal stag that roamed the royal wood,
    But better yet to lie in bed and pull the royal pud.
    His only outer garment was a dirty undershirt
    That managed to hide the royal pride but couldn't hide the dirt.

    Chorus:
    He was wild and woolly and full of fleas
    And his terrible tool hung down to his knees---
    God bless the Bastard king of England.

    Oh, the Queen of Spain was an amorous Jane,
    And a sprightly dame was she;
    Who loved to fool with the royal tool
    Of the King across the sea.
    So she sent a royal message by a royal messenger
    To ask the King to bring his ding and spend a night with her.
    (Cho.)

    When Philip of France heard this, by chance
    He declared, before his court:
    "The Queen prefers my rival, because my dong is short."
    So he sent the Count of Zippity-Zap to slip the Queen a dose of
    the clap
    To pass it to the Bastard King of England. (Cho.)

    When the King of England heard of this, he was walking through his halls
    And he up and swore by the royal whore that he'd have the Frenchman's balls
    He offered up both half his lands and a piece of the Queen Hortense
    To any British subject who'd de-nut the King of France. (Cho.)

    Well the Earl of Sussex heard of this and straight-aways went to
    France
    Where he swore he was a fairy, so the King let down his pants,
    He knotted a thong around that prong, and jumped on his horse, and rode along
    And dragged him to the bastard king of England. (Cho.)
    When the King of England saw this sight, he s*** all over the floor,
    For during the ride, his rival's pride had stretched a yard or more
    Then the merry maids of England, came down from London town
    And shouted 'round the castle walls "To Hell with the British crown!"

    And Philip of France usurped the throne, his scepter was the royal bone
    By which he'd bitched the bastard King of England! (Cho.)
     
    Many variations of lyrics and melody exist: further, the tune was bowdlerized into a Disney piece called "The Phony King of England". A true folk s0ng in that regard.
  8. need a comma after Stanford in 1st graph (took me a while to figure it out)

  9. It always bothered me that my Washington Bullets drafted the wrong Grant.

  10. Hockey rather than NBA but I know Steve likes these sportsball nature/nurture things, so …

    Penguins just acquired Jason Zucker, a fairly significant pickup, so I looked him up:
    Born in Newport Beach Calif, very unusual for a pro hockey player. (Raised in Vegas and Michigan). Jewish, extremely unusual for a pro hockey player. But interestingly it turns out his mom was a competitive figure skater and his dad a general contractor — who built hockey rinks.

  11. Wow. One twin has a beard and nappy hair, and the other is clean shaven with a buzz cut. It’s like they’re polar opposites! How wierd is that?

  12. Also OT but once again it’s Hate-Crime Alert Time …

    Listened to WCBS newsradio for 30 minutes this morning and got
    1) NY Mayor warns cabbies not to shun Asians due to virus fears (media mantra remains no confirmed cases in NY)
    2) Pols urge diners not to shun Chinatowns (One I swear said NYC’s greatest asset is its diversity)
    3) “Bullies” reportedly beat up California teen, accusing him of having the virus (this sounds odd — wouldn’t that be a great way to catch the bug?)

    Waiting for an NYT op-ed in 3 … 2 … 1 …

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/jamespoulos/status/1229084859601166339?s=20
  13. In college I played in an independent league team with two identical twins, Ron and Don. They were 6’4” and pretty good players. Not quite the size of our center PeeWee, who was 6’5” and somewhat beefier. But good. Natural power forwards.

    The only problem with Ron and Don occurred when playing pickup games. They would naturally match up against each other, and then the fun began. Sooner or later, one would foul the other, and then they would start arguing, all the way back to transgressions that occurred when they shared the same crib.

    I recall one occasion when they started in with each other, and I had to leave for class. I picked a guy out of the crowd of waiting players to replace me, then went to take a quick shower and get back into street clothes. As I passed the gym on my way out, they were still arguing and pushing and shoving. At 6’4” and 230, there were few players willing to get into it with them.

    That gym later burned to the ground, but the memories remain.

  14. The Kray twins were identical but looked different to most people; personally they look the same to me:

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/london-gangsters-the-kray-twins-reggie-and-ronnie-with-american-picture-id80197497?s=2048×2048

    • Replies: @Lot
    And one of the Kray twins was bisexual.

    There are two movies about them. Anyone like or dislike them or prefer one of the movies?

    A crime drama set in Swinging London sounds interesting.

    I prefer the bigger budget modern movie normally, but 2015’s Legend has mixed reviews and 1990’s The Krays won a bunch of awards in Britain.
    , @Sean
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7d/59/3d/7d593da47a8665f14803678b6304ac44.jpg

    The Kray twins were definitely known to be fraternal not identical. It can be seen with them either side of Henry Cooper, who had a genuine identical twin, George, also a pro boxer although much less successful.

    https://www.ciaranbrown.com/images/cooperhenrygeorge1963180.jpg

    Identical twins do not get the same resources in the womb, it's not unusual for one to be much stronger and smarter and saner. And straighter. Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    The Krays were celebrities in the East End while they were still babies because their mother would dress them the same. Jewish father / Gypsy mother, but they were fraternal twins. Both were dominant gay. Ronnie was gayer (liked young boxers) , and insane.

  15. Speaking of genetics, there’s quite the kerfuffle over this tweet:

    Here’s one response:

    • Replies: @Andrey illyich
    I dont have room = I dont have a good answer to Dawking's tweet
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Eugenics faces resistance in humans because the results are smart enough to see through the flimsy arguments of its supporters.


    A Eugenicist Engineered Me To Be A Genius Baby

    Life As A Donor-Conceived Human

    Humans are the rare species with fathers, rather than mere sires. That alone puts limits on which methods of eugenics we can use on ourselves.

    Depriving children of their fathers is a variety of starvation. That isn't true of bulls-- whose semen, by the way, is never sold without a name.

    , @res
    That response from Curtis is hilarious. I love it when "experts" weight in with unsupported statements as if they were some kind of oracle. At least he knows how to invoke the "appeal to authority" fallacy though ; )
    And I almost forgot his use of the royal we. LOL!

    The thread following that tweet is kind of fun as well. Perhaps the best part is when he makes a vague pointer to Adam Rutherford's work when called on his lack of evidence in the original tweet.

    Why do bozos like Curtis and Rutherford expect any thinking person to believe them when this is the best they can do?

    P.S. If eugenics is unworkable in humans, then why are they so scared of the idea?

    P.P.S. Can someone on Twitter please tweet him a JScreen link?
    https://jscreen.org/
    , @J.Ross
    How "tall" is "expert" Dave "Curtis"?
    , @Harold
    Is this a Fermat joke?
    , @Pericles

    Tweet by very posh professor Dave: I don't have room to explain why in a tweet but we are very confident that eugenics would not "work" in humans.

     

    Well Dave, why not write a "paper" about it? Imagine, you could settle this contentious issue once and for all. And then your answer would fit in a tweet too.
  16. In the sport of MMA, we have the Brazilian identical twin Noguiera brothers. Even their names are almost identical: Antonio Rodrigo and Antonio Rogerio. Rodrigo always fought at heavyweight, and was called “Big Nog” or “Minotauro”; Rogerio (“Little Nog” or “Minotoro”) fought at 205 lb. They could easily be told apart when shirtless: Rodrigo had a big dent in his back, the result of being run over by a truck at the age of 10 and losing a rib.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    You can tell them apart easily in the cage, because Big Nog is better at Jits and Little Nog at boxing. Both are way beyond expiration date though. Big Nog had some crazy, legendary fights in Japan. It’s a shame both were past their prime by the time UFC acquired them.
  17. @candid_observer
    Speaking of genetics, there's quite the kerfuffle over this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1228943686953664512?s=20

    Here's one response:

    https://twitter.com/davecurtis314/status/1229006294327136256?s=20

    I dont have room = I dont have a good answer to Dawking’s tweet

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I dont have room = I dont have a good answer to Dawking’s tweet
     
    The answer is there in Dawkins's tweet itself:

    It’s one thing to deplore eugenics on ideological, political, moral grounds.
     
    "Ideology", politics, and morals -- and law and ethics-- stem from human nature. They're part of what distinguishes us from other beasts. It's why you employ a stud farm for your mare, but not your daughter.

    It’s quite another to conclude that it wouldn’t work in practice. Of course it would. It works for cows, horses, pigs, dogs & roses. Why on earth wouldn’t it work for humans?
     
    Perhaps for humans who live in barns, stables, sties, kennels, and flower beds.

    Perhaps he could describe in detail what "in practice" means in relation to his own species. The closest real-life example I can think of is the arranged marriages of India.

    What have they produced?

    Then there are those many polygamous societies. What is their historical record?
  18. i assume this is because of epigenetics. indeed, if our tech was sufficient, i suspect that if we made 100 clones, they would all turn out slightly different, such that you could rank the clones into groups. the top couple ones, the upper half, the lower half, and the bottom couple clones, who were the weakest. all from identical DNA.

    this is likely because there are not enough instructions in DNA to tell the body where to position each molecule precisely. building a body is not like building a house, which has a blueprint with everything spelled out down to the inch, and all the materials laid out in exact proportions ahead of time. the body has to guess, and doesn’t even know ahead of time how much construction material it will get.

    indeed, any landscaper is familiar with planting lots of genetically identical trees, then over decades, seeing them grow, and become unique in the way the trunks and branches and roots expand and develop and branch and reach out towards water, sunlight, away from obstructions, and so forth. ones with lots of fertilizer and sun and water are vastly different from ones with little of those things, but also, trees with equal inputs are still unique to each other, with branches shooting off in all different directions, and no two trees are exactly the same.

    building brains must be the same way, with the neurons have to guess as to which directions to expand outward, connect, and prune. there are not enough instructions in DNA to tell the brain where to position each neuron, let alone each molecule. neuron growth cones perform the same function in brains are branches and roots do in trees.

  19. The UK tabloid press (and the Guardian) is in mourning this weekend over the suicide of Caroline Flack, a 40 year old, unmarried, childless TV personality and presenter of shows like Love Island, a reality soft-porn show where a number of fit young celeb-wannabes are stuck on an island to make out with each other.

    She was arrested and charged with attacking her younger boyfriend, allegedly by smashing something (a lamp?) over his head while he slept*. He didn’t want charges pressed, but under our wonderful new domestic violence procedures, the charge goes ahead even with an uncooperative victim. The tabloids had a field day.

    At which point the TV company dropped her. At which point, and with the trial approaching, she killed herself.

    Turns out she has a (non-identical) twin sister. Her sister isn’t in all the gossip columns or the Sidebar Of Shame, lives quietly and has three kids.

    * it could have been worse, it might have been a table

    You can’t pick up a table, moma
    And throw it on somebody’s face
    While I’m sleepin’
    It ain’t fair
    Somehow I get to feeling you don’t know nuthin ’bout love
    And I don’t care what I did, or what you say I did
    A great poet once wrote, ‘too much is too much’
    A table in my face is too much.

  20. particularly when building brains, i suspect the instructions are to build the most important parts first with the materials that come in first, and these parts are most gene dependent, then, start building the other parts, and these parts are more environmentally dependent. this probably explains the Flynn effect, while also accounting for how humans were not stumbling bumbling morons 200 years ago. here, we possibly have the mechanism for Cattell’s fluid versus crystallized intelligence distinction, and our observed differences in changes over a century on various questions on Stanford-Binet and Wechsler tests, where the fluid performance changes less, whereas the crystallized performance changes a lot.

    in this view, Spearman’s G and Cattell’s fluid is more related to the trunk of the tree, with Cattell’s crystallized and the Flynn effect more related to the branches and roots – growth and pruning of branches and roots subject to materials input and environment, but also the whimsy of which direction the branches and roots decide to take, such that 20 years later, genetically identical siblings are now all unique and different lifeforms. by this view, the outcome is somewhat a roll of the dice even with identical starting points. akin to a pinewood derby with all the cars the same at the starting gate, but still a Gaussian function outcome observed at the finish line.

    the most important parts of intelligence are built first, and vary little by amount of nutrition. then more of the brain expands outwards in proportion to how much additional nutrition comes in. explaining expanding brain size and weight, improving performance on intelligence tests decade by decade, but less improvement in some forms of g, and declining performance in some of the most genetic aspects of g – the instructions for the central g parts of the brain are highly dependent on genetics and pedigree, while the more peripheral capabilities of the brain can be built out with increased nutrition and pruned with ‘environment’ IE 16 years of schooling.

  21. this hypothesis explains other things:

    humans in communist countries take a hit to intelligence, but aren’t rendered into drooling morons. the bread and water rations they get, the body directly builds those into the most important parts of their brains. they don’t get the Flynn effect, but they remain smart enough to build and operate a functional technological society.

    africans, aboriginies get the Flynn effect, but the instructions for the central most important parts of their brains remain the same, so they don’t suddenly turn into europeans and start building skyscrapers and spacecraft, because they still aren’t smart enough for that, and never will be. no amount of Education Department intervention will ever turn them into Germans or Japanese.

  22. I have identical twin sons. They are very similar but very different, predominantly in personality. They are alike, but also complete opposites.

    One is very extroverted one is very introverted. This has been since birth. They are complementary.

    It is a fascinating thing to observe.

  23. OT: This guy’s Twitter is the best source of virus info in English I have seen out of China.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ischinar

    • Agree: Lot
  24. anon[282] • Disclaimer says:

    The perception of Brook being aloof is, I believe, now a bit dated. Current view is it had more to do with the social dynamic of the specific teams he was on.

    Robin is famous for losing his temper such that he seems to be on the verge of losing control. Gets a genuine Crazy Eyes, murderous rage kind of look (though he’s never followed through and seriously crossed a line). Fits the whole nice-guy-losing-it archetype. Given the hair + behavior there are a bunch of Sideshow Bob comparisons.

    They’re both huge Disney/comic book fanatics.

  25. @candid_observer
    Speaking of genetics, there's quite the kerfuffle over this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1228943686953664512?s=20

    Here's one response:

    https://twitter.com/davecurtis314/status/1229006294327136256?s=20

    Eugenics faces resistance in humans because the results are smart enough to see through the flimsy arguments of its supporters.

    A Eugenicist Engineered Me To Be A Genius Baby

    Life As A Donor-Conceived Human

    Humans are the rare species with fathers, rather than mere sires. That alone puts limits on which methods of eugenics we can use on ourselves.

    Depriving children of their fathers is a variety of starvation. That isn’t true of bulls– whose semen, by the way, is never sold without a name.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Lot
    Sperm donation is a solution for infertility foremost, not eugenics.

    For women who want to be single mothers, I don’t see why a catalog of donors is any worse than randomly getting knocked up.
    , @anon
    Eugenics faces resistance in humans because the results are smart enough to see through the flimsy arguments of its supporters.

    Really? Define "eugenics", in your own terms.

    Rhetorical question: Is Tay-Sachs a good thing or a bad thing?
  26. @candid_observer
    Speaking of genetics, there's quite the kerfuffle over this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1228943686953664512?s=20

    Here's one response:

    https://twitter.com/davecurtis314/status/1229006294327136256?s=20

    That response from Curtis is hilarious. I love it when “experts” weight in with unsupported statements as if they were some kind of oracle. At least he knows how to invoke the “appeal to authority” fallacy though ; )
    And I almost forgot his use of the royal we. LOL!

    The thread following that tweet is kind of fun as well. Perhaps the best part is when he makes a vague pointer to Adam Rutherford’s work when called on his lack of evidence in the original tweet.

    Why do bozos like Curtis and Rutherford expect any thinking person to believe them when this is the best they can do?

    P.S. If eugenics is unworkable in humans, then why are they so scared of the idea?

    P.P.S. Can someone on Twitter please tweet him a JScreen link?
    https://jscreen.org/

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Half the thread is filled with people who don't seem to have read his tweet. "Eugenics is evil, you bastard!"

    "The comments show that people don't actually care about the point being made. They instead care about proving they're morally superior to Richard Dawkins. Problem is their intentional misrepresentation of his point proves they're not even that. They're just even more wrong."

    Followed immediately by

    "This is racist trash, Richard. The analogy you draw here between the ideology of eugenics and the domestication of cows or horses is false, dangerous, and historically illiterate."

    He didn't say anything about ideology, except that the tweet wasn't about that.
  27. Reg and Ron Kray are reported to be identical, but they’re easy to tell apart. Perhaps its a case of multiple boxing matches and differing physiques?

    Ron on the left, Reg on the right.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Looks like Tom Hardy did a pretty good job at portraying the actual appearance and mood of these fellows...that being said, unless there is something really odd about the photograph, e.g. angle, lighting, etc., they don't look identical at all, unlike my father and his twin. One smoked a pipe and had a broken nose which was not set, the other smoked cigars, that is how most people could tell them apart.
  28. @res
    That response from Curtis is hilarious. I love it when "experts" weight in with unsupported statements as if they were some kind of oracle. At least he knows how to invoke the "appeal to authority" fallacy though ; )
    And I almost forgot his use of the royal we. LOL!

    The thread following that tweet is kind of fun as well. Perhaps the best part is when he makes a vague pointer to Adam Rutherford's work when called on his lack of evidence in the original tweet.

    Why do bozos like Curtis and Rutherford expect any thinking person to believe them when this is the best they can do?

    P.S. If eugenics is unworkable in humans, then why are they so scared of the idea?

    P.P.S. Can someone on Twitter please tweet him a JScreen link?
    https://jscreen.org/

    Half the thread is filled with people who don’t seem to have read his tweet. “Eugenics is evil, you bastard!”

    “The comments show that people don’t actually care about the point being made. They instead care about proving they’re morally superior to Richard Dawkins. Problem is their intentional misrepresentation of his point proves they’re not even that. They’re just even more wrong.”

    Followed immediately by

    “This is racist trash, Richard. The analogy you draw here between the ideology of eugenics and the domestication of cows or horses is false, dangerous, and historically illiterate.”

    He didn’t say anything about ideology, except that the tweet wasn’t about that.

  29. @candid_observer
    Speaking of genetics, there's quite the kerfuffle over this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1228943686953664512?s=20

    Here's one response:

    https://twitter.com/davecurtis314/status/1229006294327136256?s=20

    How “tall” is “expert” Dave “Curtis”?

  30. “Mom” has a helluva brow ridge…

  31. @Lugash
    The Kray twins were identical but looked different to most people; personally they look the same to me:

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/london-gangsters-the-kray-twins-reggie-and-ronnie-with-american-picture-id80197497?s=2048x2048

    And one of the Kray twins was bisexual.

    There are two movies about them. Anyone like or dislike them or prefer one of the movies?

    A crime drama set in Swinging London sounds interesting.

    I prefer the bigger budget modern movie normally, but 2015’s Legend has mixed reviews and 1990’s The Krays won a bunch of awards in Britain.

  32. Whatever happened to the “Peters” twins, those Czech identicals who got it on on camera, and weren’t faking it? Last I heard is that one went straight and has a model girlfriend, and the brothers are no longer talking.

    What are the odds of identical twins producing a child with birth defects? (Careful, now…)

    Why can’t gay or lesbian twins have sex with or marry each other? Why is incest wrong between same-sex siblings?

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

    What are the odds of identical twins producing a child with birth defects? (Careful, now…)
     
    Zero, because identical twins are always of the same sex, and hence (barring some unforeseen miracle) cannot produce a child together.

    Once long ago I heard a prominent geneticist present a lecture on genetics and genealogy, their similarities and differences. He showed us a slide of the families produced by the marriages of a pair of male identical twin brothers to a pair of identical twin sisters. There was no twinning among the children of these two couples, but they had comparable birth orders and looked remarkably similar. The lecturer pointed out that while the children were genealogically first cousins, they were genetically brothers and sisters.
  33. @Reg Cæsar
    Eugenics faces resistance in humans because the results are smart enough to see through the flimsy arguments of its supporters.


    A Eugenicist Engineered Me To Be A Genius Baby

    Life As A Donor-Conceived Human

    Humans are the rare species with fathers, rather than mere sires. That alone puts limits on which methods of eugenics we can use on ourselves.

    Depriving children of their fathers is a variety of starvation. That isn't true of bulls-- whose semen, by the way, is never sold without a name.

    Sperm donation is a solution for infertility foremost, not eugenics.

    For women who want to be single mothers, I don’t see why a catalog of donors is any worse than randomly getting knocked up.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    They’re both an abomination. Bringing a child into the world without parents is wrong.
  34. @Known Fact
    Also OT but once again it's Hate-Crime Alert Time ...

    Listened to WCBS newsradio for 30 minutes this morning and got
    1) NY Mayor warns cabbies not to shun Asians due to virus fears (media mantra remains no confirmed cases in NY)
    2) Pols urge diners not to shun Chinatowns (One I swear said NYC's greatest asset is its diversity)
    3) "Bullies" reportedly beat up California teen, accusing him of having the virus (this sounds odd -- wouldn't that be a great way to catch the bug?)

    Waiting for an NYT op-ed in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

  35. @Lot
    Sperm donation is a solution for infertility foremost, not eugenics.

    For women who want to be single mothers, I don’t see why a catalog of donors is any worse than randomly getting knocked up.

    They’re both an abomination. Bringing a child into the world without parents is wrong.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Mentioned in prior threads already, but happening right now is a SJW Red Alert Full-Force Mobbing of Andrew Sabisky, a brilliant young man newly hired by Dominic Cummings in BoJo’s government.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/johnson-adviser-andrew-sabisky-contraception-sterilisation-underclass-comments-a9338331.html

    He’s a full on Steveosphere member! HBD chick for instance is an email friend. Really hope he stays. His twitter homepage links to an article advocating more building to increase fertility and discouraging female higher ed.
  36. @the one they call Desanex
    In the sport of MMA, we have the Brazilian identical twin Noguiera brothers. Even their names are almost identical: Antonio Rodrigo and Antonio Rogerio. Rodrigo always fought at heavyweight, and was called “Big Nog” or “Minotauro”; Rogerio (“Little Nog” or “Minotoro”) fought at 205 lb. They could easily be told apart when shirtless: Rodrigo had a big dent in his back, the result of being run over by a truck at the age of 10 and losing a rib.

    https://sportofboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/NOG-069.jpg

    You can tell them apart easily in the cage, because Big Nog is better at Jits and Little Nog at boxing. Both are way beyond expiration date though. Big Nog had some crazy, legendary fights in Japan. It’s a shame both were past their prime by the time UFC acquired them.

  37. @Desiderius
    They’re both an abomination. Bringing a child into the world without parents is wrong.

    Mentioned in prior threads already, but happening right now is a SJW Red Alert Full-Force Mobbing of Andrew Sabisky, a brilliant young man newly hired by Dominic Cummings in BoJo’s government.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/johnson-adviser-andrew-sabisky-contraception-sterilisation-underclass-comments-a9338331.html

    He’s a full on Steveosphere member! HBD chick for instance is an email friend. Really hope he stays. His twitter homepage links to an article advocating more building to increase fertility and discouraging female higher ed.

  38. @Cagey Beast
    OT:
    https://twitter.com/drjulie_b/status/1228950726598168576?s=20
  39. @Reg Cæsar
    Eugenics faces resistance in humans because the results are smart enough to see through the flimsy arguments of its supporters.


    A Eugenicist Engineered Me To Be A Genius Baby

    Life As A Donor-Conceived Human

    Humans are the rare species with fathers, rather than mere sires. That alone puts limits on which methods of eugenics we can use on ourselves.

    Depriving children of their fathers is a variety of starvation. That isn't true of bulls-- whose semen, by the way, is never sold without a name.

    Eugenics faces resistance in humans because the results are smart enough to see through the flimsy arguments of its supporters.

    Really? Define “eugenics”, in your own terms.

    Rhetorical question: Is Tay-Sachs a good thing or a bad thing?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I have nothing against organic eugenics, which the West has practiced until recently. That's what marriage is for, in part. " Be fruitful and multiply."

    Inbred populations do have to be on alert for genetic flaws like Tay-Sachs, but the solution is outbreeding. You know, sometimes the Pope is right.
  40. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cagey Beast
    OT:
    https://twitter.com/drjulie_b/status/1228950726598168576?s=20

    This pro forma denuncio has the air of medieval buffoonery.

    The Bastard King of England

    Oh, the minstrels sing of an English King of many long years ago
    Who ruled his land with an iron hand though his mind was weak and low.
    He love to shag the royal stag that roamed the royal wood,
    But better yet to lie in bed and pull the royal pud.
    His only outer garment was a dirty undershirt
    That managed to hide the royal pride but couldn’t hide the dirt.

    Chorus:
    He was wild and woolly and full of fleas
    And his terrible tool hung down to his knees—
    God bless the Bastard king of England.

    Oh, the Queen of Spain was an amorous Jane,
    And a sprightly dame was she;
    Who loved to fool with the royal tool
    Of the King across the sea.
    So she sent a royal message by a royal messenger
    To ask the King to bring his ding and spend a night with her.
    (Cho.)

    When Philip of France heard this, by chance
    He declared, before his court:
    “The Queen prefers my rival, because my dong is short.”
    So he sent the Count of Zippity-Zap to slip the Queen a dose of
    the clap
    To pass it to the Bastard King of England. (Cho.)

    When the King of England heard of this, he was walking through his halls
    And he up and swore by the royal whore that he’d have the Frenchman’s balls
    He offered up both half his lands and a piece of the Queen Hortense
    To any British subject who’d de-nut the King of France. (Cho.)

    Well the Earl of Sussex heard of this and straight-aways went to
    France
    Where he swore he was a fairy, so the King let down his pants,
    He knotted a thong around that prong, and jumped on his horse, and rode along
    And dragged him to the bastard king of England. (Cho.)
    When the King of England saw this sight, he s*** all over the floor,
    For during the ride, his rival’s pride had stretched a yard or more
    Then the merry maids of England, came down from London town
    And shouted ’round the castle walls “To Hell with the British crown!”

    And Philip of France usurped the throne, his scepter was the royal bone
    By which he’d bitched the bastard King of England! (Cho.)

    Many variations of lyrics and melody exist: further, the tune was bowdlerized into a Disney piece called “The Phony King of England”. A true folk s0ng in that regard.

  41. @Lugash
    The Kray twins were identical but looked different to most people; personally they look the same to me:

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/london-gangsters-the-kray-twins-reggie-and-ronnie-with-american-picture-id80197497?s=2048x2048


    The Kray twins were definitely known to be fraternal not identical. It can be seen with them either side of Henry Cooper, who had a genuine identical twin, George, also a pro boxer although much less successful.

    Identical twins do not get the same resources in the womb, it’s not unusual for one to be much stronger and smarter and saner. And straighter. Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    The Krays were celebrities in the East End while they were still babies because their mother would dress them the same. Jewish father / Gypsy mother, but they were fraternal twins. Both were dominant gay. Ronnie was gayer (liked young boxers) , and insane.

    • Replies: @anon
    Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    What evidence do you have to support this?
    , @Dr. Krieger
    If by Gypsy mother, you mean Irish Gypsy, well maybe then. But Violet Kray was no Romani. As for being Jewish, I've heard about that.
    Reg was no poof.
    They were known to be identical.
    , @anon
    Children in London were evacuated to rural areas during the war, the Kray twins amongst them.
    Of course, criminals are mostly poofters anyway, it goes with the territory, though I wonder how many of the boys born around 1934 and removed from their parent's care from 1940-45 were abused there and turned into poofters later on?
  42. @Sean
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7d/59/3d/7d593da47a8665f14803678b6304ac44.jpg

    The Kray twins were definitely known to be fraternal not identical. It can be seen with them either side of Henry Cooper, who had a genuine identical twin, George, also a pro boxer although much less successful.

    https://www.ciaranbrown.com/images/cooperhenrygeorge1963180.jpg

    Identical twins do not get the same resources in the womb, it's not unusual for one to be much stronger and smarter and saner. And straighter. Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    The Krays were celebrities in the East End while they were still babies because their mother would dress them the same. Jewish father / Gypsy mother, but they were fraternal twins. Both were dominant gay. Ronnie was gayer (liked young boxers) , and insane.

    Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    What evidence do you have to support this?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.
     
    What evidence do you have to support this?
     
    His experience!

    Perhaps he's met Boy George, or Elton John's namesake Long John Baldry:


    https://downtothecrossroads.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/longjohnbaldry3.jpg
    , @res
    This is suggestive (and not really in line with what he said), but the data (OKCupid users) is subject to selection bias (and profile lying) so be careful interpreting it.
    https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/shortermenaremorelikelytobegay.html

    https://blog.timesunion.com/kristi/files/2010/03/chart.png
  43. @Sean
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7d/59/3d/7d593da47a8665f14803678b6304ac44.jpg

    The Kray twins were definitely known to be fraternal not identical. It can be seen with them either side of Henry Cooper, who had a genuine identical twin, George, also a pro boxer although much less successful.

    https://www.ciaranbrown.com/images/cooperhenrygeorge1963180.jpg

    Identical twins do not get the same resources in the womb, it's not unusual for one to be much stronger and smarter and saner. And straighter. Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    The Krays were celebrities in the East End while they were still babies because their mother would dress them the same. Jewish father / Gypsy mother, but they were fraternal twins. Both were dominant gay. Ronnie was gayer (liked young boxers) , and insane.

    If by Gypsy mother, you mean Irish Gypsy, well maybe then. But Violet Kray was no Romani. As for being Jewish, I’ve heard about that.
    Reg was no poof.
    They were known to be identical.

  44. My main memory of Horace is as the Bull’s designated rebounder/board-minder whose job was to grab loose balls and return them to Jordan and Pippen. No doubt he got plenty of experience in that role “cleaning-up” on the boards after his more freewheeling brother’s jump shots.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    The Grant brothers only played one year of college basketball together at Clemson before Harvey transferred to Oklahoma. There he played third wheel to Stacey King and Mookie Blaylock. Horace was considered the much better player in both college and the pros.
  45. @anon
    Eugenics faces resistance in humans because the results are smart enough to see through the flimsy arguments of its supporters.

    Really? Define "eugenics", in your own terms.

    Rhetorical question: Is Tay-Sachs a good thing or a bad thing?

    I have nothing against organic eugenics, which the West has practiced until recently. That’s what marriage is for, in part. ” Be fruitful and multiply.”

    Inbred populations do have to be on alert for genetic flaws like Tay-Sachs, but the solution is outbreeding. You know, sometimes the Pope is right.

    • Replies: @anon
    I have nothing against organic eugenics, which the West has practiced until recently.

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of "organic eugenics"?
    , @Anonymous

    You know, sometimes the Pope is right.
     
    A stopped clock is right twice a day.
  46. Identical twins in the NBA have the advantage of growing up competing against an NBA level talent who sleeps in the same bunk bed, and they learn that talent alone isn’t enough.

    Good insight. Which suggests that the environment/gene split could be parsed out a bit further by studying identical twins in especially competitive environments.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Part of my ability to hit a baseball in my youth came from good eyesight and quick hands. The other part came from playing every day with my older (16 months) brother, who still holds all the pitching records at our old high school and attended a D1 school on a baseball scholarship.
  47. @anon
    Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    What evidence do you have to support this?

    Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    What evidence do you have to support this?

    His experience!

    Perhaps he’s met Boy George, or Elton John’s namesake Long John Baldry:

  48. @Reg Cæsar
    Whatever happened to the "Peters" twins, those Czech identicals who got it on on camera, and weren't faking it? Last I heard is that one went straight and has a model girlfriend, and the brothers are no longer talking.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJrZQqJQI8E


    What are the odds of identical twins producing a child with birth defects? (Careful, now...)


    Why can’t gay or lesbian twins have sex with or marry each other? Why is incest wrong between same-sex siblings?

    What are the odds of identical twins producing a child with birth defects? (Careful, now…)

    Zero, because identical twins are always of the same sex, and hence (barring some unforeseen miracle) cannot produce a child together.

    Once long ago I heard a prominent geneticist present a lecture on genetics and genealogy, their similarities and differences. He showed us a slide of the families produced by the marriages of a pair of male identical twin brothers to a pair of identical twin sisters. There was no twinning among the children of these two couples, but they had comparable birth orders and looked remarkably similar. The lecturer pointed out that while the children were genealogically first cousins, they were genetically brothers and sisters.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    identical twins are always of the same sex, and hence...cannot produce a child together

     

    Careful with that, I don't wan't unz.com to be deplatformed.
  49. I saw the basketball brothers Grant during the summer of 1989 in a Blockbuster in Northbrook Illinois. My Northbrook girlfriend at the time was 5 foot tall.

    I can attest that I could not tell either of them apart, they were both almost two feet taller than my girlfriend and they very quite nice guys, waiting patiently in the Blockbuster lines that existed in 1989.

  50. @SonOfStrom
    My main memory of Horace is as the Bull’s designated rebounder/board-minder whose job was to grab loose balls and return them to Jordan and Pippen. No doubt he got plenty of experience in that role “cleaning-up” on the boards after his more freewheeling brother’s jump shots.

    The Grant brothers only played one year of college basketball together at Clemson before Harvey transferred to Oklahoma. There he played third wheel to Stacey King and Mookie Blaylock. Horace was considered the much better player in both college and the pros.

  51. Who takes a brick to school?


    Spanish anon: “Ah, at last, I see the architect, but am still looking for the doctor, professor, lawyer, engineer, etc.”
    ———
    DiBlasio’s brilliant scheme of fighting crime via letting everybody out of jail praised as “lit” by thief arrested one hundred and thirty #^@&ing nine times:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-bail-reform-law-nyc-subway-thief-thanks-democrats-139th-arrest

    • Replies: @newrouter
    What no clay detectors at that school?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Who takes a brick to school?
     
    Maybe the victim was her rapist. She certainly "profiled" him.
    , @anon
    Who takes a brick to school?

    It is her parents fault for keeping the old blues albums around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zHD2BBhw_c
    , @Reg Cæsar
    This story is at least three years old. Anybody know where it happened?

    https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/675948/this-teacher-had-way-too-casual-of-a-reaction-when-one-kid-hit-another-with-a-brick-in-his-class


    There are lots of loose bricks lying around in the ghetto. Using them has been a thing for some time:

    MOTHER ATTACKS PITTSBURGH TEACHER WITH A BRICK OVER A SCHOOL PHONE BAN: POLICE


    Girl, 15, will face assault charges for Temple brick attack, judge rules

    California woman gets 15 years for hitting a 91-year-old man with a brick
  52. anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. Krieger
    Reg and Ron Kray are reported to be identical, but they're easy to tell apart. Perhaps its a case of multiple boxing matches and differing physiques?

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/kray-brothers.jpg

    Ron on the left, Reg on the right.

    Looks like Tom Hardy did a pretty good job at portraying the actual appearance and mood of these fellows…that being said, unless there is something really odd about the photograph, e.g. angle, lighting, etc., they don’t look identical at all, unlike my father and his twin. One smoked a pipe and had a broken nose which was not set, the other smoked cigars, that is how most people could tell them apart.

  53. @Crawfurdmuir

    What are the odds of identical twins producing a child with birth defects? (Careful, now…)
     
    Zero, because identical twins are always of the same sex, and hence (barring some unforeseen miracle) cannot produce a child together.

    Once long ago I heard a prominent geneticist present a lecture on genetics and genealogy, their similarities and differences. He showed us a slide of the families produced by the marriages of a pair of male identical twin brothers to a pair of identical twin sisters. There was no twinning among the children of these two couples, but they had comparable birth orders and looked remarkably similar. The lecturer pointed out that while the children were genealogically first cousins, they were genetically brothers and sisters.

    identical twins are always of the same sex, and hence…cannot produce a child together

    Careful with that, I don’t wan’t unz.com to be deplatformed.

  54. @J.Ross
    Who takes a brick to school?
    https://twitter.com/gojonewsnow/status/1228616970989338625
    Spanish anon: "Ah, at last, I see the architect, but am still looking for the doctor, professor, lawyer, engineer, etc."
    ---------
    DiBlasio's brilliant scheme of fighting crime via letting everybody out of jail praised as "lit" by thief arrested one hundred and thirty #^@&ing nine times:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-bail-reform-law-nyc-subway-thief-thanks-democrats-139th-arrest

    What no clay detectors at that school?

  55. Anonymous[344] • Disclaimer says:

    In ice hockey, the recently retired Sedin twins(taken 2nd and 3rd overall in the otherwise atrocious 1999 NHL Entry Draft) spent nearly two decades as line-mates for the Vancouver Canucks, scoring over 1000 points each after a somewhat slow start to their careers. Henrik played center and acted as playmaker while Daniel played wing and was more of a shooter. There was never any question as to whether they were identical.

  56. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2879922

    [H}ypothesis that both girls are heterozygous for Duchenne muscular dystrophy. X inactivation, by chance, resulted in two contrasting cell masses with different active X chromosomes. This segregation was followed by, and may even have resulted in, twinning into a female pair, one normal and one with the full clinical features of the disease.

  57. Anon[163] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: COV19 may be killing people much the same way the 1918 Spanish Flu did. Not long ago I came the claim by a doctor of that period who said people in 1918 weren’t dying of the flu, they were dying of complications of pneumonia. The 1918 flu wasn’t anywhere near as dangerous as people think it is. The problem was, once you were sick, RSV (human respiratory syncytial virus), which is as common as dirt and which causes everything from pneumonia to bronchitis to ear infections, would take the opportunity to invade and spread wildly throughout an already-weakened victim and kill that person.

    Even today, elderly people who are sick in the hospital quite often die of an opportunistic RSV that gives them pneumonia on top of whatever put them in the hospital in the first place.

    Here’s a very revealing scientific paper discussing pneumonia deaths during the 1918 pandemic and blaming pneumonia for the death rate:

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/14/8/07-1313_article

    We are seeing a lot of the victims in China being labelled as ‘death from pneumonia’ and not by COV19. Westerners are complaining about this and think it’s a pack of nonsense, but I think the death by pneumonia designation may be entirely accurate.

    My takeway: DO NOT GET A COLD if COV19 comes through. Both together will finish you off. Stay away from the sick, period, even if it’s not COV19.

    • Replies: @Lugash
    Although we're still in the mostly speculative days, Covid-19 looks like it's going to be an 'interesting' virus. It's possible that it's got a really high R0, lasts a really long time outside the body, has a really long incubation period, some people are superspreaders and reinfection is possible and deadly. It also looks like it hits men harder and possibly Asians as well. Oh, and some asymptomatic people just drop dead in the street.

    China's actions indicate an order of magnitude bigger problem. The death and sickness are bad, but the shock to their(and our!) economy is what's probably driving the reaction. Read former FDA commission Scott Gottlieb's Twitter to see just how much critical capacity is overseas.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the US not getting hit bad; we're holding steady right now.
  58. Anon[324] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/02/13/west-virginia-governor-calls-high-school-girls-basketball-team-bunch-thugs/

    The governor of West Virginia coaches a mostly white girl’s high school basketball team on the side.

    After a game with a mostly black rival team, there was a ruckus, and the governor called the opposing team “thugs.”

    “I hate to say it any other way, but honest to God’s truth is the same thing happened over at Woodrow two different times out of the Woodrow players. They’re a bunch of thugs,” Justice told the Beckley Register-Herald. “The whole team left the bench. The coach is in a fight. They walked off the floor. They called the game.

    “The game was over when they walked off the floor — it’s just as simple as that. They don’t know how to behave, and at the end of the day, you got what you got.”

    The black basketball coach (presumably, not the one arrested) is demanding that the governor apologize to his team.

    Statement by the black team’s principal:

    “Immediately following the game and in the days thereafter, Woodrow Wilson High School students have been subjected to unfortunate and inappropriate remarks by the coach of the Greenbrier East High School girls’ basketball team,” Powell’s statement read, in part. “The remarks show complete lack of respect for our students and coaches. We are proud of how our players and coaches have conducted themselves in the last few days throughout these unfortunate circumstances.”

    Somehow, the originating incident has just … floated away …

    https://wvva.com/2020/02/13/incident-at-woodrow-wilson-greenbrier-east-under-investigation/

    Tuesday night’s basketball game between Greenbrier East and Woodrow Wilson was suspended just minutes into the fourth quarter after an altercation between a fan and an assistant coach on the Woodrow Wilson team, that’s according to eyewitnesses.

    According to West Virginia State Police, Eugene Nabors, the assistant basketball coach at Woodrow Wilson, was cited for obstruction of justice following the altercation. The incident remains under investigation by the West Virginia State Police. More charges could be filed.

    “Major altercation,” but the local news suppressed the video of it:

    https://woay.tv/woodrow-wilson-greenbrier-east-suspended-in-4th-quarter/

    Eyewitness said a parent from the white team’s side “taunted” the black team, and a black coach blew up and shoved a cop.

    https://woay.tv/fan-details-what-he-saw-during-the-altercation-at-the-girls-basketball-game-at-greenbrier-east/

    “This is a high school girls basketball game, for crying out loud. It’s embarrassing that the tension got to this point, and that grown adults could act like this.”

    The only thing missing are tranny players.

    • Replies: @mmack
    Did anyone in the crowd lead a chant of "Where's your passport?"

    Just tying iSteve threads and posts together.

  59. @Reg Cæsar
    I have nothing against organic eugenics, which the West has practiced until recently. That's what marriage is for, in part. " Be fruitful and multiply."

    Inbred populations do have to be on alert for genetic flaws like Tay-Sachs, but the solution is outbreeding. You know, sometimes the Pope is right.

    I have nothing against organic eugenics, which the West has practiced until recently.

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics”?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics”?
     
    What would make it necessary, other than inbreeding?
  60. @J.Ross
    Who takes a brick to school?
    https://twitter.com/gojonewsnow/status/1228616970989338625
    Spanish anon: "Ah, at last, I see the architect, but am still looking for the doctor, professor, lawyer, engineer, etc."
    ---------
    DiBlasio's brilliant scheme of fighting crime via letting everybody out of jail praised as "lit" by thief arrested one hundred and thirty #^@&ing nine times:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-bail-reform-law-nyc-subway-thief-thanks-democrats-139th-arrest

    Who takes a brick to school?

    Maybe the victim was her rapist. She certainly “profiled” him.

  61. @J.Ross
    Who takes a brick to school?
    https://twitter.com/gojonewsnow/status/1228616970989338625
    Spanish anon: "Ah, at last, I see the architect, but am still looking for the doctor, professor, lawyer, engineer, etc."
    ---------
    DiBlasio's brilliant scheme of fighting crime via letting everybody out of jail praised as "lit" by thief arrested one hundred and thirty #^@&ing nine times:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-bail-reform-law-nyc-subway-thief-thanks-democrats-139th-arrest

    Who takes a brick to school?

    It is her parents fault for keeping the old blues albums around.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Right...letting her listen to that Jethro Tull album just added to the incitement.
  62. @Reg Cæsar
    I have nothing against organic eugenics, which the West has practiced until recently. That's what marriage is for, in part. " Be fruitful and multiply."

    Inbred populations do have to be on alert for genetic flaws like Tay-Sachs, but the solution is outbreeding. You know, sometimes the Pope is right.

    You know, sometimes the Pope is right.

    A stopped clock is right twice a day.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The eugenicists are the ones who'd apply utopian fantasy régimes to everyday human activities like falling in love and marrying. Never mind Christendom; when has any religion anywhere, even in India, attempted such an idea?

    Utopians have this blind spot. It's called human nature.
  63. OT: “Do you think the rise in numbers of East Asians in American universities has contributed to the growing obsession with “emotional safety?” After all, a concern for “harmony” has been a famous value of Oriental culture for thousands of years.” (Steve_Sailer Twitter comment)

    Don’t forget the age-old female obsession with “emotional safety”. The idea that people should be able to speak their minds even if some are offended is a Western European male idea.

  64. @candid_observer
    Speaking of genetics, there's quite the kerfuffle over this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1228943686953664512?s=20

    Here's one response:

    https://twitter.com/davecurtis314/status/1229006294327136256?s=20

    Is this a Fermat joke?

  65. @J.Ross
    Who takes a brick to school?
    https://twitter.com/gojonewsnow/status/1228616970989338625
    Spanish anon: "Ah, at last, I see the architect, but am still looking for the doctor, professor, lawyer, engineer, etc."
    ---------
    DiBlasio's brilliant scheme of fighting crime via letting everybody out of jail praised as "lit" by thief arrested one hundred and thirty #^@&ing nine times:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-bail-reform-law-nyc-subway-thief-thanks-democrats-139th-arrest
  66. @anon
    I have nothing against organic eugenics, which the West has practiced until recently.

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of "organic eugenics"?

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics”?

    What would make it necessary, other than inbreeding?

    • Replies: @anon
    What would make it necessary, other than inbreeding?

    That doesn't answer the question. Although it does shift the goalposts...

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of "organic eugenics" or not?
    , @res
    https://jscreen.org/reasons-for-genetic-testing/

    Feel free to ask again if that link does not provide an adequate answer.
  67. @Anonymous

    You know, sometimes the Pope is right.
     
    A stopped clock is right twice a day.

    The eugenicists are the ones who’d apply utopian fantasy régimes to everyday human activities like falling in love and marrying. Never mind Christendom; when has any religion anywhere, even in India, attempted such an idea?

    Utopians have this blind spot. It’s called human nature.

    • Replies: @bomag
    Fair enough point in that a eugenics movement could do harm.

    But knowing what we know, it seems public policy could be informed enough not to promote dysgenic trends.
    , @anon
    The eugenicists are the ones who’d apply utopian fantasy régimes to everyday human activities like falling in love and marrying.

    Please describe these utopian fantasy regimes in a bit more detail. Less emotional handwaving, more facts would be a good start.

    Never mind Christendom; when has any religion anywhere, even in India, attempted such an idea?

    Which idea are you referring to?
  68. @Anon
    OT: COV19 may be killing people much the same way the 1918 Spanish Flu did. Not long ago I came the claim by a doctor of that period who said people in 1918 weren't dying of the flu, they were dying of complications of pneumonia. The 1918 flu wasn't anywhere near as dangerous as people think it is. The problem was, once you were sick, RSV (human respiratory syncytial virus), which is as common as dirt and which causes everything from pneumonia to bronchitis to ear infections, would take the opportunity to invade and spread wildly throughout an already-weakened victim and kill that person.

    Even today, elderly people who are sick in the hospital quite often die of an opportunistic RSV that gives them pneumonia on top of whatever put them in the hospital in the first place.

    Here's a very revealing scientific paper discussing pneumonia deaths during the 1918 pandemic and blaming pneumonia for the death rate:

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/14/8/07-1313_article

    We are seeing a lot of the victims in China being labelled as 'death from pneumonia' and not by COV19. Westerners are complaining about this and think it's a pack of nonsense, but I think the death by pneumonia designation may be entirely accurate.

    My takeway: DO NOT GET A COLD if COV19 comes through. Both together will finish you off. Stay away from the sick, period, even if it's not COV19.

    Although we’re still in the mostly speculative days, Covid-19 looks like it’s going to be an ‘interesting’ virus. It’s possible that it’s got a really high R0, lasts a really long time outside the body, has a really long incubation period, some people are superspreaders and reinfection is possible and deadly. It also looks like it hits men harder and possibly Asians as well. Oh, and some asymptomatic people just drop dead in the street.

    China’s actions indicate an order of magnitude bigger problem. The death and sickness are bad, but the shock to their(and our!) economy is what’s probably driving the reaction. Read former FDA commission Scott Gottlieb’s Twitter to see just how much critical capacity is overseas.

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed on the US not getting hit bad; we’re holding steady right now.

  69. A few years ago, England fielded a Rugby World Cup team with *three* brothers from the same family, two of them identical twins:
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/oct/01/england-burgess-brothers-world-cup

    A fourth brother (at the far left) did not make the team:

  70. @Andrey illyich
    I dont have room = I dont have a good answer to Dawking's tweet

    I dont have room = I dont have a good answer to Dawking’s tweet

    The answer is there in Dawkins’s tweet itself:

    It’s one thing to deplore eugenics on ideological, political, moral grounds.

    “Ideology”, politics, and morals — and law and ethics– stem from human nature. They’re part of what distinguishes us from other beasts. It’s why you employ a stud farm for your mare, but not your daughter.

    It’s quite another to conclude that it wouldn’t work in practice. Of course it would. It works for cows, horses, pigs, dogs & roses. Why on earth wouldn’t it work for humans?

    Perhaps for humans who live in barns, stables, sties, kennels, and flower beds.

    Perhaps he could describe in detail what “in practice” means in relation to his own species. The closest real-life example I can think of is the arranged marriages of India.

    What have they produced?

    Then there are those many polygamous societies. What is their historical record?

    • Replies: @kihowi
    Dawkins is an interesting man. He's one of those people who have a deep emotional investment in a certain ideology but are too intelligent to let it sweep them away entirely. So from time to time his intelligence peeks through and drags him by his hair to what he can see is real.

    Example. The Selfish Gene is pretty kooky in places. In the first part he argues convincingly that our behaviour is a function of gnetics and that religion is probably a evolutionary artifact. Ok, fine. Then in the second part he puts on his preacher's hat and switches to "if we would just stop believing in god, there'd be no wars." Which is when I put the book away.

    But he's also not dumb enough to believe that Christianity and Islam are interchangeable and equally valuable, which led to him being cancelled before we had the word "cancelled".
    , @bomag

    It’s why you employ a stud farm for your mare, but not your daughter.
     
    Not in such terms, but we all hope they "marry well."

    The closest real-life example I can think of is the arranged marriages of India... What have they produced?
     
    Besides Ramanujan, the Brahmins seem to have a little more going on.
  71. @Reg Cæsar

    I dont have room = I dont have a good answer to Dawking’s tweet
     
    The answer is there in Dawkins's tweet itself:

    It’s one thing to deplore eugenics on ideological, political, moral grounds.
     
    "Ideology", politics, and morals -- and law and ethics-- stem from human nature. They're part of what distinguishes us from other beasts. It's why you employ a stud farm for your mare, but not your daughter.

    It’s quite another to conclude that it wouldn’t work in practice. Of course it would. It works for cows, horses, pigs, dogs & roses. Why on earth wouldn’t it work for humans?
     
    Perhaps for humans who live in barns, stables, sties, kennels, and flower beds.

    Perhaps he could describe in detail what "in practice" means in relation to his own species. The closest real-life example I can think of is the arranged marriages of India.

    What have they produced?

    Then there are those many polygamous societies. What is their historical record?

    Dawkins is an interesting man. He’s one of those people who have a deep emotional investment in a certain ideology but are too intelligent to let it sweep them away entirely. So from time to time his intelligence peeks through and drags him by his hair to what he can see is real.

    Example. The Selfish Gene is pretty kooky in places. In the first part he argues convincingly that our behaviour is a function of gnetics and that religion is probably a evolutionary artifact. Ok, fine. Then in the second part he puts on his preacher’s hat and switches to “if we would just stop believing in god, there’d be no wars.” Which is when I put the book away.

    But he’s also not dumb enough to believe that Christianity and Islam are interchangeable and equally valuable, which led to him being cancelled before we had the word “cancelled”.

  72. The sad thing is, these two cross eyed retards are worth $200 million. 🙁

  73. @candid_observer
    Speaking of genetics, there's quite the kerfuffle over this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1228943686953664512?s=20

    Here's one response:

    https://twitter.com/davecurtis314/status/1229006294327136256?s=20

    Tweet by very posh professor Dave: I don’t have room to explain why in a tweet but we are very confident that eugenics would not “work” in humans.

    Well Dave, why not write a “paper” about it? Imagine, you could settle this contentious issue once and for all. And then your answer would fit in a tweet too.

  74. @Reg Cæsar
    The eugenicists are the ones who'd apply utopian fantasy régimes to everyday human activities like falling in love and marrying. Never mind Christendom; when has any religion anywhere, even in India, attempted such an idea?

    Utopians have this blind spot. It's called human nature.

    Fair enough point in that a eugenics movement could do harm.

    But knowing what we know, it seems public policy could be informed enough not to promote dysgenic trends.

  75. @Reg Cæsar

    I dont have room = I dont have a good answer to Dawking’s tweet
     
    The answer is there in Dawkins's tweet itself:

    It’s one thing to deplore eugenics on ideological, political, moral grounds.
     
    "Ideology", politics, and morals -- and law and ethics-- stem from human nature. They're part of what distinguishes us from other beasts. It's why you employ a stud farm for your mare, but not your daughter.

    It’s quite another to conclude that it wouldn’t work in practice. Of course it would. It works for cows, horses, pigs, dogs & roses. Why on earth wouldn’t it work for humans?
     
    Perhaps for humans who live in barns, stables, sties, kennels, and flower beds.

    Perhaps he could describe in detail what "in practice" means in relation to his own species. The closest real-life example I can think of is the arranged marriages of India.

    What have they produced?

    Then there are those many polygamous societies. What is their historical record?

    It’s why you employ a stud farm for your mare, but not your daughter.

    Not in such terms, but we all hope they “marry well.”

    The closest real-life example I can think of is the arranged marriages of India… What have they produced?

    Besides Ramanujan, the Brahmins seem to have a little more going on.

  76. @anon
    Who takes a brick to school?

    It is her parents fault for keeping the old blues albums around.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zHD2BBhw_c

    Right…letting her listen to that Jethro Tull album just added to the incitement.

  77. @Cato

    Identical twins in the NBA have the advantage of growing up competing against an NBA level talent who sleeps in the same bunk bed, and they learn that talent alone isn’t enough.
     
    Good insight. Which suggests that the environment/gene split could be parsed out a bit further by studying identical twins in especially competitive environments.

    Part of my ability to hit a baseball in my youth came from good eyesight and quick hands. The other part came from playing every day with my older (16 months) brother, who still holds all the pitching records at our old high school and attended a D1 school on a baseball scholarship.

  78. @Reg Cæsar

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics”?
     
    What would make it necessary, other than inbreeding?

    What would make it necessary, other than inbreeding?

    That doesn’t answer the question. Although it does shift the goalposts…

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics” or not?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics” or not?
     
    Genetic testing comes under medicine. Medicine is the treatment of illnesses. What is the result of this genetic testing you're talking about? What are the resulting prescriptions?

    Ashkenazi Jews have to be tested as a rule because they inbred for a millennium or so. Perhaps this is also true for Appalachian folk. Normal people don't usually need it. It's a luxury.
  79. anon[132] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    The eugenicists are the ones who'd apply utopian fantasy régimes to everyday human activities like falling in love and marrying. Never mind Christendom; when has any religion anywhere, even in India, attempted such an idea?

    Utopians have this blind spot. It's called human nature.

    The eugenicists are the ones who’d apply utopian fantasy régimes to everyday human activities like falling in love and marrying.

    Please describe these utopian fantasy regimes in a bit more detail. Less emotional handwaving, more facts would be a good start.

    Never mind Christendom; when has any religion anywhere, even in India, attempted such an idea?

    Which idea are you referring to?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    People talking up "eugenics" are the ones who should lay out their plans in detail. How can I answer Dawkins when he refused to do so?

    He brought up the term, not I. He's duty-bound to explain it.

    People don't like having their sex lives regulated by the authorities. Marriage is the one exception.
  80. @Anon
    OT

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/02/13/west-virginia-governor-calls-high-school-girls-basketball-team-bunch-thugs/

    The governor of West Virginia coaches a mostly white girl's high school basketball team on the side.

    https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/bdtonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/0e/20e289fe-dd2c-11e6-83e6-9f8110f4ac0c/587ede2825c64.image.jpg

    After a game with a mostly black rival team, there was a ruckus, and the governor called the opposing team "thugs."

    “I hate to say it any other way, but honest to God’s truth is the same thing happened over at Woodrow two different times out of the Woodrow players. They’re a bunch of thugs,” Justice told the Beckley Register-Herald. “The whole team left the bench. The coach is in a fight. They walked off the floor. They called the game.

    “The game was over when they walked off the floor — it’s just as simple as that. They don’t know how to behave, and at the end of the day, you got what you got.”
     
    The black basketball coach (presumably, not the one arrested) is demanding that the governor apologize to his team.

    Statement by the black team's principal:


    “Immediately following the game and in the days thereafter, Woodrow Wilson High School students have been subjected to unfortunate and inappropriate remarks by the coach of the Greenbrier East High School girls’ basketball team,” Powell’s statement read, in part. “The remarks show complete lack of respect for our students and coaches. We are proud of how our players and coaches have conducted themselves in the last few days throughout these unfortunate circumstances.”
     
    Somehow, the originating incident has just ... floated away ...

    https://wvva.com/2020/02/13/incident-at-woodrow-wilson-greenbrier-east-under-investigation/

    Tuesday night's basketball game between Greenbrier East and Woodrow Wilson was suspended just minutes into the fourth quarter after an altercation between a fan and an assistant coach on the Woodrow Wilson team, that’s according to eyewitnesses.

    According to West Virginia State Police, Eugene Nabors, the assistant basketball coach at Woodrow Wilson, was cited for obstruction of justice following the altercation. The incident remains under investigation by the West Virginia State Police. More charges could be filed.
     
    "Major altercation," but the local news suppressed the video of it:

    https://woay.tv/woodrow-wilson-greenbrier-east-suspended-in-4th-quarter/

    Eyewitness said a parent from the white team's side "taunted" the black team, and a black coach blew up and shoved a cop.

    https://woay.tv/fan-details-what-he-saw-during-the-altercation-at-the-girls-basketball-game-at-greenbrier-east/

    "This is a high school girls basketball game, for crying out loud. It's embarrassing that the tension got to this point, and that grown adults could act like this."

    The only thing missing are tranny players.

    Did anyone in the crowd lead a chant of “Where’s your passport?”

    Just tying iSteve threads and posts together.

    • Replies: @anon
    Did anyone in the crowd lead a chant of “Where’s your passport?”

    Important question. Also, did any of the black players suffer touching of their hair?
  81. @anon
    Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    What evidence do you have to support this?

    This is suggestive (and not really in line with what he said), but the data (OKCupid users) is subject to selection bias (and profile lying) so be careful interpreting it.
    https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/shortermenaremorelikelytobegay.html

    • Replies: @anon
    I've seen this effort before, it comes up on just about any search. The objections to quality of data are accurate. Self-reported from OKCupid profiles? On a par with a clickbait "survey" at some online site like Teen Vogue or Cosmo. It's noise, not data.
  82. @Reg Cæsar

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics”?
     
    What would make it necessary, other than inbreeding?

    https://jscreen.org/reasons-for-genetic-testing/

    Feel free to ask again if that link does not provide an adequate answer.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I still go with Linus Pauling-- the natural way is best.
  83. @res
    This is suggestive (and not really in line with what he said), but the data (OKCupid users) is subject to selection bias (and profile lying) so be careful interpreting it.
    https://www.gwern.net/docs/psychology/okcupid/shortermenaremorelikelytobegay.html

    https://blog.timesunion.com/kristi/files/2010/03/chart.png

    I’ve seen this effort before, it comes up on just about any search. The objections to quality of data are accurate. Self-reported from OKCupid profiles? On a par with a clickbait “survey” at some online site like Teen Vogue or Cosmo. It’s noise, not data.

  84. @res
    https://jscreen.org/reasons-for-genetic-testing/

    Feel free to ask again if that link does not provide an adequate answer.

    I still go with Linus Pauling– the natural way is best.

  85. @mmack
    Did anyone in the crowd lead a chant of "Where's your passport?"

    Just tying iSteve threads and posts together.

    Did anyone in the crowd lead a chant of “Where’s your passport?”

    Important question. Also, did any of the black players suffer touching of their hair?

  86. @anon
    The eugenicists are the ones who’d apply utopian fantasy régimes to everyday human activities like falling in love and marrying.

    Please describe these utopian fantasy regimes in a bit more detail. Less emotional handwaving, more facts would be a good start.

    Never mind Christendom; when has any religion anywhere, even in India, attempted such an idea?

    Which idea are you referring to?

    People talking up “eugenics” are the ones who should lay out their plans in detail. How can I answer Dawkins when he refused to do so?

    He brought up the term, not I. He’s duty-bound to explain it.

    People don’t like having their sex lives regulated by the authorities. Marriage is the one exception.

    • Replies: @anon
    People talking up “eugenics” are the ones who should lay out their plans in detail. How can I answer Dawkins when he refused to do so?

    Fair point. However you are the person who has reacted so strongly, so why can't you define the term "eugenics"?

    People don’t like having their sex lives regulated by the authorities. Marriage is the one exception.

    Who is proposing the regulation of people's sex lives, in or out of marriage?
  87. @anon
    What would make it necessary, other than inbreeding?

    That doesn't answer the question. Although it does shift the goalposts...

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of "organic eugenics" or not?

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics” or not?

    Genetic testing comes under medicine. Medicine is the treatment of illnesses. What is the result of this genetic testing you’re talking about? What are the resulting prescriptions?

    Ashkenazi Jews have to be tested as a rule because they inbred for a millennium or so. Perhaps this is also true for Appalachian folk. Normal people don’t usually need it. It’s a luxury.

    • Replies: @anon
    Genetic testing comes under medicine. Medicine is the treatment of illnesses. What is the result of this genetic testing you’re talking about? What are the resulting prescriptions?

    Anesthesia comes under medicine as well, are you opposed to the use of anesthetics as well? Sterilization of tools used to operate on people is also under medicine, are you opposed to that as well?

    Heck, doctors washing their hands between patients is also "medicine"....

    The result of genetic testing typically is data. Knowledge. Are you also opposed to knowledge in general, or just on this one topic?

    Ashkenazi Jews have to be tested as a rule because they inbred for a millennium or so. Perhaps this is also true for Appalachian folk. Normal people don’t usually need it. It’s a luxury.

    Ashkenazi Jews do not have to be tested, but it is prudent for them to do so prior to marriage. Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling.

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?

    Honest question: what comes to your mind when you read the word "eugenics" ? It must be something rather bad, given the way you've reacted in this comment thread. What is it to you?
  88. anon[371] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7d/59/3d/7d593da47a8665f14803678b6304ac44.jpg

    The Kray twins were definitely known to be fraternal not identical. It can be seen with them either side of Henry Cooper, who had a genuine identical twin, George, also a pro boxer although much less successful.

    https://www.ciaranbrown.com/images/cooperhenrygeorge1963180.jpg

    Identical twins do not get the same resources in the womb, it's not unusual for one to be much stronger and smarter and saner. And straighter. Extremely tall men are more likely to be gay.

    The Krays were celebrities in the East End while they were still babies because their mother would dress them the same. Jewish father / Gypsy mother, but they were fraternal twins. Both were dominant gay. Ronnie was gayer (liked young boxers) , and insane.

    Children in London were evacuated to rural areas during the war, the Kray twins amongst them.
    Of course, criminals are mostly poofters anyway, it goes with the territory, though I wonder how many of the boys born around 1934 and removed from their parent’s care from 1940-45 were abused there and turned into poofters later on?

  89. N=N+2

    Dick and Tom Van Arsdale.

    Both made multiple NBA all-star teams. They played together a couple of years in Phoenix. Dick actually had a pretty darn good career and even coached the Suns for awhile. For the record:

    15,079 points (16.4 ppg)

  90. anon[515] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    People talking up "eugenics" are the ones who should lay out their plans in detail. How can I answer Dawkins when he refused to do so?

    He brought up the term, not I. He's duty-bound to explain it.

    People don't like having their sex lives regulated by the authorities. Marriage is the one exception.

    People talking up “eugenics” are the ones who should lay out their plans in detail. How can I answer Dawkins when he refused to do so?

    Fair point. However you are the person who has reacted so strongly, so why can’t you define the term “eugenics”?

    People don’t like having their sex lives regulated by the authorities. Marriage is the one exception.

    Who is proposing the regulation of people’s sex lives, in or out of marriage?

  91. anon[515] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Do you consider genetic testing to be part of “organic eugenics” or not?
     
    Genetic testing comes under medicine. Medicine is the treatment of illnesses. What is the result of this genetic testing you're talking about? What are the resulting prescriptions?

    Ashkenazi Jews have to be tested as a rule because they inbred for a millennium or so. Perhaps this is also true for Appalachian folk. Normal people don't usually need it. It's a luxury.

    Genetic testing comes under medicine. Medicine is the treatment of illnesses. What is the result of this genetic testing you’re talking about? What are the resulting prescriptions?

    Anesthesia comes under medicine as well, are you opposed to the use of anesthetics as well? Sterilization of tools used to operate on people is also under medicine, are you opposed to that as well?

    Heck, doctors washing their hands between patients is also “medicine”….

    The result of genetic testing typically is data. Knowledge. Are you also opposed to knowledge in general, or just on this one topic?

    Ashkenazi Jews have to be tested as a rule because they inbred for a millennium or so. Perhaps this is also true for Appalachian folk. Normal people don’t usually need it. It’s a luxury.

    Ashkenazi Jews do not have to be tested, but it is prudent for them to do so prior to marriage. Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling.

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?

    Honest question: what comes to your mind when you read the word “eugenics” ? It must be something rather bad, given the way you’ve reacted in this comment thread. What is it to you?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Honest question: what comes to your mind when you read the word “eugenics” ? It must be something rather bad, given the way you’ve reacted in this comment thread. What is it to you?
     
    Political control of reproduction. Why do we want to go down that road? It's never been necessary in the past.

    It's the eugenicists themselves who are coy about their program. Dawkins compared us to barnyard animals. Are we going to spay and neuter our kids children if they don't measure up? Details, Dick, details...

    Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling
     
    I have Appalachian relatives of my own. I'm not the one who suggests they need genetic testing. I've already stated in most cases it's pointless. My nieces are fine.

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?
     
    Millions live with it. What's the big deal? What difference would "genetic testing" make? John and Mary shouldn't marry because their kids might not be able to tell the Packers from the Cardinals?
  92. @anon
    Genetic testing comes under medicine. Medicine is the treatment of illnesses. What is the result of this genetic testing you’re talking about? What are the resulting prescriptions?

    Anesthesia comes under medicine as well, are you opposed to the use of anesthetics as well? Sterilization of tools used to operate on people is also under medicine, are you opposed to that as well?

    Heck, doctors washing their hands between patients is also "medicine"....

    The result of genetic testing typically is data. Knowledge. Are you also opposed to knowledge in general, or just on this one topic?

    Ashkenazi Jews have to be tested as a rule because they inbred for a millennium or so. Perhaps this is also true for Appalachian folk. Normal people don’t usually need it. It’s a luxury.

    Ashkenazi Jews do not have to be tested, but it is prudent for them to do so prior to marriage. Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling.

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?

    Honest question: what comes to your mind when you read the word "eugenics" ? It must be something rather bad, given the way you've reacted in this comment thread. What is it to you?

    Honest question: what comes to your mind when you read the word “eugenics” ? It must be something rather bad, given the way you’ve reacted in this comment thread. What is it to you?

    Political control of reproduction. Why do we want to go down that road? It’s never been necessary in the past.

    It’s the eugenicists themselves who are coy about their program. Dawkins compared us to barnyard animals. Are we going to spay and neuter our kids children if they don’t measure up? Details, Dick, details…

    Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling

    I have Appalachian relatives of my own. I’m not the one who suggests they need genetic testing. I’ve already stated in most cases it’s pointless. My nieces are fine.

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?

    Millions live with it. What’s the big deal? What difference would “genetic testing” make? John and Mary shouldn’t marry because their kids might not be able to tell the Packers from the Cardinals?

    • Replies: @anon
    Political control of reproduction.

    Ok. I don't quite see how you get there from a tweet by Dawkins, but thanks for sharing.

    Why do we want to go down that road? It’s never been necessary in the past.

    Lol! Up the thread you praised some Pope for political control of reproduction centuries ago - that's what banning cousin marriage out to the 5th degree was all about, you know. Political control of the nobility.

    But now, oh, wait, now you are opposed to political control of reproduction? Why, because it would be by some organization not controlled by a genius like Pope Frankie?

    Shaking my head. Do you even read your own thoughts? Self contradiction ever bother you, much?

    It’s the eugenicists themselves who are coy about their program.

    Including Francis Galton?

    Dawkins compared us to barnyard animals.

    In terms of heritablity, as far as I can tell. But you've read more of him than I have, and appear to be reading a lot more into his words than I can see.

    Are we going to spay and neuter our kids children if they don’t measure up? Details, Dick, details…

    Dunno. He probably hasn't even thought out very far, as former media darling he's not used to anyone actually disagreeing with him, in my opinion. Dawkins is at best a clever-silly. Do you get this emotional over his other trollbait? Serious question, he has gone out of his way in the past to poke at certain religions while leaving others alone - it's just the usual libtard hypocritical trolling.

    Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling

    I have Appalachian relatives of my own.

    Sure you do.

    I’m not the one who suggests they need genetic testing.

    Who made that suggestion?

    I’ve already stated in most cases it’s pointless. My nieces are fine.

    If genetic testing is pointless, why does it bother you so much?

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?

    Millions live with it.

    Millions of people used to live with the risk of tetanus, so is it safe to assume you declined all tetanus vaccine injections? I doubt it.

    What’s the big deal? What difference would “genetic testing” make?

    It's passed from mother to son on the 23rd chromosome, for a start. You know, genetics? Facts revealed by genetic tests?

    John and Mary shouldn’t marry because their kids might not be able to tell the Packers from the Cardinals?

    Lol @ your near hysteria. You won't be able to stop private people like "John" and "Mary" from privately investigating their own private gene lines and making private decisions, no matter how angry that privacy obviously stirs up in your brain.

    Pointed question: Just how much modern medicine are you willing to forgo in your own personal life, vs. how much do you want to take away from other people?
  93. anon[148] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Honest question: what comes to your mind when you read the word “eugenics” ? It must be something rather bad, given the way you’ve reacted in this comment thread. What is it to you?
     
    Political control of reproduction. Why do we want to go down that road? It's never been necessary in the past.

    It's the eugenicists themselves who are coy about their program. Dawkins compared us to barnyard animals. Are we going to spay and neuter our kids children if they don't measure up? Details, Dick, details...

    Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling
     
    I have Appalachian relatives of my own. I'm not the one who suggests they need genetic testing. I've already stated in most cases it's pointless. My nieces are fine.

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?
     
    Millions live with it. What's the big deal? What difference would "genetic testing" make? John and Mary shouldn't marry because their kids might not be able to tell the Packers from the Cardinals?

    Political control of reproduction.

    Ok. I don’t quite see how you get there from a tweet by Dawkins, but thanks for sharing.

    Why do we want to go down that road? It’s never been necessary in the past.

    Lol! Up the thread you praised some Pope for political control of reproduction centuries ago – that’s what banning cousin marriage out to the 5th degree was all about, you know. Political control of the nobility.

    But now, oh, wait, now you are opposed to political control of reproduction? Why, because it would be by some organization not controlled by a genius like Pope Frankie?

    Shaking my head. Do you even read your own thoughts? Self contradiction ever bother you, much?

    It’s the eugenicists themselves who are coy about their program.

    Including Francis Galton?

    Dawkins compared us to barnyard animals.

    In terms of heritablity, as far as I can tell. But you’ve read more of him than I have, and appear to be reading a lot more into his words than I can see.

    Are we going to spay and neuter our kids children if they don’t measure up? Details, Dick, details…

    Dunno. He probably hasn’t even thought out very far, as former media darling he’s not used to anyone actually disagreeing with him, in my opinion. Dawkins is at best a clever-silly. Do you get this emotional over his other trollbait? Serious question, he has gone out of his way in the past to poke at certain religions while leaving others alone – it’s just the usual libtard hypocritical trolling.

    Your bigotry towards rural white people is pure trolling

    I have Appalachian relatives of my own.

    Sure you do.

    I’m not the one who suggests they need genetic testing.

    Who made that suggestion?

    I’ve already stated in most cases it’s pointless. My nieces are fine.

    If genetic testing is pointless, why does it bother you so much?

    Rhetorical question: is red-green colorblindness a good thing or not?

    Millions live with it.

    Millions of people used to live with the risk of tetanus, so is it safe to assume you declined all tetanus vaccine injections? I doubt it.

    What’s the big deal? What difference would “genetic testing” make?

    It’s passed from mother to son on the 23rd chromosome, for a start. You know, genetics? Facts revealed by genetic tests?

    John and Mary shouldn’t marry because their kids might not be able to tell the Packers from the Cardinals?

    Lol @ your near hysteria. You won’t be able to stop private people like “John” and “Mary” from privately investigating their own private gene lines and making private decisions, no matter how angry that privacy obviously stirs up in your brain.

    Pointed question: Just how much modern medicine are you willing to forgo in your own personal life, vs. how much do you want to take away from other people?

  94. Pointed question: Just how much modern medicine are you willing to forgo in your own personal life, vs. how much do you want to take away from other people?

    People should make their own decisions. I wanted smart, healthy kids, so I married a smart, healthy woman. What Linus Pauling, in rejecting an appeal from the Repository of Germinal Choice, called “the natural way”.

    Lol! Up the thread you praised some Pope for political control of reproduction centuries ago – that’s what banning cousin marriage out to the 5th degree was all about, you know. Political control of the nobility.

    That worked out. It’s why Christians are smarter and more productive than Moslems in the Near East.

    Look at what we have today– commercial surrogacy, test-tube babies, frozen embryos, falsified birth certificates, mixing two men’s sperm in condoms… I wouldn’t trust such an amoral society with either eu– or –genics.

    Laugh all you want at the Church, but she got our best people to have lots of children. Can any eugenicist point to any of their programs which have produced the same result?

    • Replies: @anon

    Pointed question: Just how much modern medicine are you willing to forgo in your own personal life, vs. how much do you want to take away from other people?
     
    People should make their own decisions.

    Except when you don't want them to. Another self-contradiction.

    I wanted smart, healthy kids, so I married a smart, healthy woman.

    Just as Galton suggested. "Eu-genic" can be translated to "well-married". So you're OK with a basic form of eugenics in your own life, but then you have an emotional meltdown at the very idea of other people doing eugenics in a slightly different way.

    One rule for yourself, different rule for other people? Looks that way. What's that called?

    What Linus Pauling, in rejecting an appeal from the Repository of Germinal Choice, called “the natural way”.

    Who cares?

    Lol! Up the thread you praised some Pope for political control of reproduction centuries ago – that’s what banning cousin marriage out to the 5th degree was all about, you know. Political control of the nobility.
     
    That worked out. It’s why Christians are smarter and more productive than Moslems in the Near East.

    This is evasive and disingenous. You are opposed to "political control of reproduction" except when you are all in favor of it. One rule for your group, a different rule for others.

    What's that called?

    Look at what we have today– commercial surrogacy, test-tube babies, frozen embryos, falsified birth certificates, mixing two men’s sperm in condoms… I wouldn’t trust such an amoral society with either eu– or –genics.

    What do you intend to do about it?
    Lol, @ your ignorant, emotional, hypocritical meltdown.

    Laugh all you want at the Church, but she got our best people to have lots of children.

    Via "marrying well", also known as eugenics.

    Can any eugenicist point to any of their programs which have produced the same result?

    Can your ignorance be cured? Or at least alleviated?

    OK, Boomer! Carry on!
  95. Jose and Ozzie Canseco. Outfielder, pitcher.

  96. anon[673] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Pointed question: Just how much modern medicine are you willing to forgo in your own personal life, vs. how much do you want to take away from other people?

     

    People should make their own decisions. I wanted smart, healthy kids, so I married a smart, healthy woman. What Linus Pauling, in rejecting an appeal from the Repository of Germinal Choice, called "the natural way".

    Lol! Up the thread you praised some Pope for political control of reproduction centuries ago – that’s what banning cousin marriage out to the 5th degree was all about, you know. Political control of the nobility.

     

    That worked out. It's why Christians are smarter and more productive than Moslems in the Near East.

    Look at what we have today-- commercial surrogacy, test-tube babies, frozen embryos, falsified birth certificates, mixing two men's sperm in condoms... I wouldn't trust such an amoral society with either eu- or -genics.

    Laugh all you want at the Church, but she got our best people to have lots of children. Can any eugenicist point to any of their programs which have produced the same result?

    Pointed question: Just how much modern medicine are you willing to forgo in your own personal life, vs. how much do you want to take away from other people?

    People should make their own decisions.

    Except when you don’t want them to. Another self-contradiction.

    I wanted smart, healthy kids, so I married a smart, healthy woman.

    Just as Galton suggested. “Eu-genic” can be translated to “well-married”. So you’re OK with a basic form of eugenics in your own life, but then you have an emotional meltdown at the very idea of other people doing eugenics in a slightly different way.

    One rule for yourself, different rule for other people? Looks that way. What’s that called?

    What Linus Pauling, in rejecting an appeal from the Repository of Germinal Choice, called “the natural way”.

    Who cares?

    Lol! Up the thread you praised some Pope for political control of reproduction centuries ago – that’s what banning cousin marriage out to the 5th degree was all about, you know. Political control of the nobility.

    That worked out. It’s why Christians are smarter and more productive than Moslems in the Near East.

    This is evasive and disingenous. You are opposed to “political control of reproduction” except when you are all in favor of it. One rule for your group, a different rule for others.

    What’s that called?

    Look at what we have today– commercial surrogacy, test-tube babies, frozen embryos, falsified birth certificates, mixing two men’s sperm in condoms… I wouldn’t trust such an amoral society with either eu– or –genics.

    What do you intend to do about it?
    Lol, @ your ignorant, emotional, hypocritical meltdown.

    Laugh all you want at the Church, but she got our best people to have lots of children.

    Via “marrying well”, also known as eugenics.

    Can any eugenicist point to any of their programs which have produced the same result?

    Can your ignorance be cured? Or at least alleviated?

    OK, Boomer! Carry on!

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