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From a peeved Washington Post:

Russia unveils coronavirus vaccine, claiming victory in global race before final testing is complete

By Isabelle Khurshudyan and Carolyn Y. Johnson
August 11, 2020 at 1:57 a.m. PDT

MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Tuesday that the country has become the first to approve a coronavirus vaccine, developed by the Gamaleya Institute in Moscow, with production and tens of thousands of inoculations to follow.

Officials have pledged to vaccinate millions of people, including teachers and front line health-care workers, with the experimental coronavirus vaccine beginning this month, raising global alarm that the country is jumping dangerously ahead of critical, large scale testing that is essential to determine if it is safe and effective. …

The aggressive strategy from a country eager to declare a victory amid one of the worst outbreaks in the world has been criticized by outside scientists who worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity. China has already authorized one vaccine for use in its military, ahead of definitive data that it is safe and effective.

At a congressional hearing this month, Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases testified that it would be problematic if countries made a vaccine available before extensive testing.

… It was given to scientists who developed it, in self-experimentation that is unusual in modern science, 50 members of the Russian military and a handful of other volunteers.

I hope it works. Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it — lots of bad accidents have happened in Russia over the generations. But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.

 
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  1. I’m puzzled: what’s the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?

    • Agree: notsaying
    • Replies: @Sean
    @dearieme

    All countries will contribute of their unique talents


    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Japanese-scientists-turn-to-silkworms-for-COVID-19-vaccine

    In a building on the Kyushu University campus in Fukuoka, in western Japan, "we have about 250,000 silkworms in about 500 different phylogenies (family lines)," Kusakabe said.
    In his lab a short distance away from the building, student volunteers with special permission from the university are hard at work on vaccine development. Nikkei spoke to Kusakabe in May, when Japan was under a state of emergency.Genes of the protein that forms the outer "spikes" of the new coronavirus are incorporated into the virus and injected into a silkworm. The virus is then taken into silkworm cells, and after about four days, spike proteins that can serve as vaccine material start to be produced in large quantities. These spike proteins are removed, refined and made into a vaccine that is administered via injection.

    From the thousands of insects in the lab, "we have found a type of silkworm that can efficiently manufacture the proteins," Kusakabe said.
     

    Russia also has the people to reduce deaths from coronavirus.

    https://youtu.be/1inkOhiSXqQ?t=16

    A quarter of Russian men expire before they reach 55 years of age.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    , @Matt Buckalew
    @dearieme

    Penis envy. Russians and Steve are the only people on earth that care that America won the most important leg of the space race so decisively that Russia never even made it to the moon. Well I guess hidden figures made blacks care but I don’t know if they still care or if they’ve moved on like everyone else.

    , @Jack D
    @dearieme

    Putin is a risk taker (with other people's lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.

    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin. The Soviet Union was obsessed with being 1st or claiming to be first. Remember that Putin orchestrated a massive doping and drug test cheating scheme so that Russia could win the most Olympic medals at Sochi. The Soviets dropped their moon program like a hot kartoshka the minute they lost the space race - if they couldn't be first, what was the point of spending billions to visit a worthless rock? Russians are deeply insecure that they are inferior to the West and are always looking for confirmation that they are not inferior, they are actually better.

    (Americans love winners too - see Vince Lombardi, but in a somewhat different way, that doesn't come from a place of deep insecurity. Still this obsession with winning made the Cold War a match made in heaven and kept both sides on their toes. Sure there was a lot of waste but the competition also drove both sides to some might feats. Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn't have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother's milk. Ask yourself "what would Brezhnev do?" and you'll get the explanation to most of Putin's actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.

    Replies: @BB753, @AnotherDad, @Reg Cæsar, @Svigor

    , @dearieme
    @dearieme

    The penny drops: he's worried about being overthrown.

    If the vaccination campaign is a success he basks in it; if a failure - well, you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

    Speculation, you say? OK, but probably better than anything coming out of the CIA. And so much cheaper.

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @dearieme


    I’m puzzled: what’s the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?
     
    Or is it a greater risk to keep waiting and waiting, and testing and testing, as is the American health care approach?

    The vaccine issue creates a bit of cognitive dissonance for the fear-mongering media. On the one hand, if the virus really was the new Black Death as they have been claiming, we should be willing to run the risk of vaccine side effects to stop it. (Especially as the pre-covid media narrative was that anyone who questioned vaccines was, by definition, a crazy "Vaxxer.")

    On the other hand, letting the virus spread because you are afraid of vaccine side effects implies that you must not believe the unchecked virus is all that bad.

    In reality, it's just a classic question of making a technical trade off between the costs and benefits of making a Type I vs. Type II error. But that would require actual facts and thinking. So it's way beyond our media's capability. (Also, it would require them to rigorously quantify the true dangers of the virus rather than fear-mongering based on fake numbers).

    Since the media can't address the issues of a new vaccine roll-out in any honest or intelligent way, expect to see a lot of nonsense based on "Russia Bad" and "Safety First" cliches.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D

  2. Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it …

    How much time would you want to let go by before you did? Who says the side-effects of vaccines is short-term? It’s great that the Chinese have their own ready-made guinea pigs in the PLA. I’m guessing that in Russia, it would be the same situation as here for the healthcare employees – don’t get the shot and you lose your job.

    Though a vaccine will be a great thing for the old and otherwise vulnerable, it will just put off any chance of the sheep seeing the way they’ve been fooled with this phony crisis. Even if society is let to try to get back to normal, what has been done is to proof-test the idea of LOCKDOWNS and face-diaper wearing as normal things that can be implemented again at the whim of government officials. When’s the next one coming? Don’t throw out those full-face masks yet that you end up wearing even outside in the sunshine to accessorize.

    .

    PS: In case I get Mr. Godfree Roberts with his graphs with the circles and arrows showing the successes of Chairman Mao, or some of the Russia boosters like Anon-who-still-lives-in-Tennessee-though, I’m not knocking anything in particular about the Chinese or Russians having concocted a vaccine vs. Americans having done the same.

    • Troll: guest007
    • Replies: @Polynikes
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Agree. If I were in a risk group, I might be more eager for it. But I think I would still hold off on being big pharma’s guinea pig.

    On the other hand, if I were in poor health, 80 yrs old, and living in a nursing home I might jump at the chance to get the first or second round.

    , @Svigor
    @Achmed E. Newman

    When I think about the gov't asking, and in some cases even demanding that the people wear masks that heavily interfere with the corporate tyranny's tech companies' facial recognition software, I start shaking, literally shaking, with rage.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Cloudbuster
    @Achmed E. Newman

    How much time would you want to let go by before you did?

    I have no plans to take the most-politicized, least-tested vaccine in history, ever.

    , @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Perhaps we can use this as an excuse not take the vaccine, if it ever becomes mandated. How do we know that hasn't got some of that Ruski-vax in it? And everything that is Russian is bad - Nancy Pelosi and Eric Swalwell told me - the Russians are trying to hack our immune system!

    I remember it was just a few years ago - during the Obama-care debate, not that long ago - that many, many liberals were mistrustful of big-pharma. Those evil drug companies were - well, demanding that they get paid for the products they sold. They were price-gougers, who profited off the suffering of people. Now all of a sudden, those same companies (many of them), who also manufacture vaccines, are "front-line heroes" (and very diverse too!) bravely battling the 'Rona-scourge.

    I also remember when liberals mistrusted weapons manufacturers (which we now euphemistically call "the defence industry") - they had no trouble then believing that the MIC would promote wars in order to sell weapons and profit off of them. So why do they imagine that chemical companies (because that's what pharmaceutical companies are) are any different? Why wouldn't they promote disease and epidemic in order to sell drugs and vaccines and profit off of them?

    Of course, liberals now don't seem to have any problem with the MIC, or the Pentagon, or the Clandestine agencies. In fact, if you even question the CIA or the FBI - well, you are obviously just a russian stooge - one of Putin's useful idiots. And I guess they made their peace with big pharma too. Hell, if Phillip Morris and R.J. Reynolds had simply bothered to stuff money into DNC affilliated PACs, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer would be holding their press conferences with a cigarette dangling from their lips and exhorting the public to "Light Up America!"

    , @Colin Wright
    @Achmed E. Newman

    'How much time would you want to let go by before you did?'

    I don't bother with flu shots. Does that answer your question?

  3. It’ll likely work, but perhaps not for very long. Let’s say it takes 1 month to endow immunity and 5 months for the majority of immunity to fade, it’ll be remarkably hard to keep this going.

    Best of luck to them though. I suppose, at the least, it will substantially lower the R0 in RUssia!

  4. The aggressive strategy from a country eager to declare a victory amid one of the worst outbreaks in the world has been criticized by outside scientists who worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity. China has already authorized one vaccine for use in its military, ahead of definitive data that it is safe and effective.

    Chinese and Russian vaccines, bad. But if you are hesitant about being injected with vaccines made by American or European countries, or if you are suspicious of, say, Bill Gates’ plans, you’re an “anti vaxxer”, a “conspiracy theorist” and a “loon”. Funny how that works.

    Well, I for one ain’t taking none of them. I guess I will take my chances with the virus directly, which at least doesn’t contain mercury. 😉 😛

    • Thanks: Bill Jones
    • LOL: Father Coughlin
    • Replies: @John Cunningham
    @Dumbo

    My pal the retired ENT doc says that he never takes a vaccine in it's first year of use.

    Replies: @Billy Shears

    , @Alexander Turok
    @Dumbo


    Chinese and Russian vaccines, bad. But if you are hesitant about being injected with vaccines made by American or European countries, or if you are suspicious of, say, Bill Gates’ plans, you’re an “anti vaxxer”, a “conspiracy theorist” and a “loon”.
     
    Have you considered the hypothesis that maybe it does make sense but you're just too stupid to understand it?

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    , @Paul Mendez
    @Dumbo

    Don’t worry, you won’t even be offered the vaccine.

    Priority will go to the mega-rich, health care workers, essential government employees, vulnerable communities such as people of color and the economically disadvantaged, LGBTQ peoples with compromised immune systems, single mothers, and the teeming populations of underdeveloped nations across the globe.

    The only white men who’ll get the vaccine will be professional athletes who kneel during the National Anthem.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  5. Probably find it works great for 1 or 2 strains, helps with a few more, and can’t protect against most COVID-19 strains.

    • Replies: @Aardvark
    @Redneck farmer

    I keep seeing references to the number of vaccines in development, well over 200. It's as if they are preparing for vaccine of the month club. Be careful reckless vaccine producing porkers, if you kill off the goose too early it won't be around to lay any more golden eggs in the form of payments for your crap ass vaccines.

    , @gcochran
    @Redneck farmer

    Although there is some genetic variation, there's no sign that the differences affect the key antigens - so, at this time, you're wrong.

    , @HA
    @Redneck farmer

    "Probably find it works great for 1 or 2 strains, helps with a few more, and can’t protect against most COVID-19 strains."

    It depends on what you mean by protecting. Even if -- despite any vaccine you receive-- you wind up getting the disease, you still want to be among those lucky enough to have few symptoms. And even those previously known coronaviruses that are in the grab-bag of diseases we know as the common cold allow T-cells to fight COVID (or at least make you more likely to sail through it asymptomatically even if you do come down with it, in the way that flu vaccines can lessen the severity of a flu even in those that manage to catch it anyway).

    So, if you knew your buddy's cold symptoms were actually due to a coronavirus (and not one of the other suspects, that don't provide any protection), you could probably do worse than going over there and catching it yourself.

    They're still not sure why homeless people are thus far largely asymptomatic (though in one study, 40% of those tested positive for COVID antibodies). They don't think it's just Vitamin D (because, surprisingly, homeless people actually tend to be lacking in that, too), so it's the exposure to other coronaviruses that seems a likely suspect.

    Replies: @Kratoklastes

  6. would be problematic if countries made a vaccine available before extensive testing.

    I’m sure he meant to say “before the election”

  7. More power to them, but I’m not lining up even for a well-tested vsccine.

    … after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.

    Who’s to say they lost the third leg? NASA refused to send the Mars Rover over to confirm it when asked by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX).

  8. But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.

    No they didn’t.

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-forgotten-rocketeers-german-scientists-in-the-soviet-union-1945-1959/

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @JohnPlywood

    Germans or not, the Russkies don't stand a chance against Team USA. We got Kizzmekia Corbett!

    , @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @JohnPlywood

    Partly. Korolev was the central man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

    By the way, vaccine might work; just, perhaps it should be complemented by new medications when you already get the Kung flu.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    , @Tom-in-VA
    @JohnPlywood

    https://youtu.be/1dSkX9VySOI

    From “The Right Stuff”

    , @siberiancat
    @JohnPlywood

    >>It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.

    Not really. Read the Boris Chertok's memoirs about the Soviet Space program. They have been translated into English

    The Russians took a very unusual strategy. They got a less prominent part of the German team. They got everything ready for mass production of V2, but never adopted it as a weapon, it only used as a prototype to establish the scientific-industrial partnerships.
    They also put an isolated German team on the development of a next-generation rocket and did not use the result. An indigenous design from Korolev was chosen.

    You have to keep in mind, Russia had her own weapon research in rocketry before the war started. They had aircraft-launched rockets and MRLs before anyone else.

    Replies: @HunInTheSun

    , @S. Anonyia
    @JohnPlywood

    I mean weren’t they the brains behind ours, too? American engineers (mostly Southerners like my great-uncles who worked for NASA in its heyday) just implemented their plans...

  9. The american MSM aren’t the fourth estate they’re the fifth column in America’s (and the World’s ) fight against corona and, well, everything.

    They don’t seem to like ANYTHING other than people hiding in their homes forever regardless of any costs. Everything else is an unacceptable risk. Oh, except of course for looting, BLM and anti-police protesting, and random BIPOC parties… those things are ok.

    But, going to school? NO
    going to the park? NO
    hydroxychloroquine? NO
    herd immunity? NO
    vaccines? NO (oh, they’re our only hope, but that’s only when they’re theoretical. ACTUAL vaccines which would allow the lockdown to end soon? say… before some random day in early November? oh no WAY too dangerous)

    Such a collection of soyboys and Negative Nancys as our current crop of reporters and columnists has rarely been seen.

    (not that we should really jump on these vaccines, because for most people they’re not even necessary / worth it, and, for the people who really need them, the elderly infirm and the obese, they probably don’t work well anyway.
    https://khn.org/news/americas-obesity-epidemic-threatens-effectiveness-of-any-covid-vaccine/)

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @vhrm


    The american MSM aren’t the fourth estate they’re the fifth column in America’s (and the World’s ) fight against corona and, well, everything.
     
    A sane society would have....uh....broomed all these people long ago.
    , @Anon7
    @vhrm

    "They don’t seem to like ANYTHING other than people hiding in their homes forever regardless of any costs."

    Thank God this Covid-19 nightmare has opened all our eyes. AND if we wear masks for Covid, we should CERTAINLY wear masks EVERY FALL for the FLU, you know, just out of an ABUNDANCE of CAUTION. NO church, especially no SINGING in church, no businesses except for stores so big you think you're outside. Don't ever get closer than six feet to any other human being, and for crying out loud don't show your face to another person, not even in the mirror - you might reinfect yourself.

    Thank God the Left progressive libtards have socialism waiting in the wings - you can't count on free enterprise, you can only count on that big government check every month. Once big government got big enough to vote for itself and win, it was all over anyway.

    , @Franz Liszt von raiding
    @vhrm

    Yes I’ve been saying it for past few weeks :
    The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!

    , @Anonymous
    @vhrm

    Journalism/advertising is increasingly a female-dominated profession. Finance and consulting going that way too.

  10. Remember everyone, diversity is strength. That is why places like Russia will always lose in things like a vaccine race to those vibrant diverse teams in the USA. Same applies to things like TikTok, the US tech giants will never have to fear such things and require their government to ban the competition, nobody can beat the superior diversity.

  11. @Redneck farmer
    Probably find it works great for 1 or 2 strains, helps with a few more, and can't protect against most COVID-19 strains.

    Replies: @Aardvark, @gcochran, @HA

    I keep seeing references to the number of vaccines in development, well over 200. It’s as if they are preparing for vaccine of the month club. Be careful reckless vaccine producing porkers, if you kill off the goose too early it won’t be around to lay any more golden eggs in the form of payments for your crap ass vaccines.

  12. Not “Democracy Dies In Darkness” but “We Get It Wrong, Even When Right.”

    Isabelle Khurshudyan and Carolyn Y. Johnson: “…raising global alarm that [Russia] is jumping dangerously ahead of critical, large scale testing that is essential to determine if it is safe and effective… outside scientists worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity.”

    Successful vaccine development programs generally take 10 to 12 years to go from concept to widespread implementation. Why, Khursudyan & Johnson? Sailer’s 50/50 heuristic is likely applicable here: By upping spending and prioritizing, a program can probably be compressed to 5-6 years, without risking higher side effects or lower efficacy.

    Nobody is talking about a 5 year program for Covid-19. The critique is valid for all programs with timelines measured in months rather than years.

    [MORE]

    Paradoxically, the problem is more acute because SARS-CoV-2’s infection fatality rate (~0.3%) is closer to influenza (~0.05%) than to smallpox (variola major, ~20%). Consider vaccinating 200 million Americans with a vaccine with “pretty good” numbers, a Severe Adverse Event rate of one per thousand people. That’d cause 200,000 deaths/severe complications. A reasonable risk for most people compared to a smallpox epidemic, completely unacceptable in the cases of flu or Covid-19 (the current US death toll stands at about 170,000).

    For new vaccines, SAEs are “known unknowns.” Nature and nurture — human genetics, history of exposure to antigens, immune system strength, nutritional status, age, and overall health are each highly heterogeneous. For a given vaccine candidate, the only way to identify the SAEs and establish their rates is to conduct very large trials, enrolling adequate numbers of people in each category of potential concern, and following patients for long enough to catch subtle long-term effects.

    These are Phase III clinical trials. Short cuts in these trials necessarily increase risks of lower vaccine efficacy and higher vaccine SAEs in subpopulations.

    The Russia-hating Washington Post is thus correct in its criticisms of this Russian program. The same apply to all accelerated programs.

    If the West had a functional media, university system, and public health establishment, its intellectuals would be in the midst of leading this “conversation” about risk.

    My own view is that higher risks are justified, given the effects of this coronavirus. But I appreciate that other reasonable people will have higher or lower thresholds for themselves and their families.

    There’s already a mechanism for risk-sharing, it’s called “insurance.” The concept is applied to vaccine-caused injury and death through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. In a world where the U.S. had better elites, the general public would already be familiar with this approach, and citizens would be debating its application to Covid-19.

    But we don’t live in that world.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @ic1000

    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself? That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren't they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Granted, getting vaccinated means you get exposed to (dead) wuflu as a certainty, and not getting vaccinated you can hope you just won't get exposed at all. But sooner or later we'll all get exposed, and frankly this social distancing is starting to feel like a shitty kind of life.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Peter Lund, @El Dato, @res

    , @ic1000
    @ic1000

    Clarification, I wrote about a hypothetical vaccine with “pretty good” safety numbers, a Severe Adverse Event rate of 1:100,000. For 2017, Canada reported 253 vaccination-related SAEs nationwide, for a rate of 1.1 per 100,000 people. Seizure and anaphylaxis were the most common events; there were 4 deaths (0.02/100,000). Approved vaccines are very safe, compared to the risks of the diseases they prevent.

  13. @ic1000
    Not "Democracy Dies In Darkness" but "We Get It Wrong, Even When Right."

    Isabelle Khurshudyan and Carolyn Y. Johnson: "...raising global alarm that [Russia] is jumping dangerously ahead of critical, large scale testing that is essential to determine if it is safe and effective… outside scientists worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity."

    Successful vaccine development programs generally take 10 to 12 years to go from concept to widespread implementation. Why, Khursudyan & Johnson? Sailer's 50/50 heuristic is likely applicable here: By upping spending and prioritizing, a program can probably be compressed to 5-6 years, without risking higher side effects or lower efficacy.

    Nobody is talking about a 5 year program for Covid-19. The critique is valid for all programs with timelines measured in months rather than years.

    Paradoxically, the problem is more acute because SARS-CoV-2's infection fatality rate (~0.3%) is closer to influenza (~0.05%) than to smallpox (variola major, ~20%). Consider vaccinating 200 million Americans with a vaccine with "pretty good" numbers, a Severe Adverse Event rate of one per thousand people. That'd cause 200,000 deaths/severe complications. A reasonable risk for most people compared to a smallpox epidemic, completely unacceptable in the cases of flu or Covid-19 (the current US death toll stands at about 170,000).

    For new vaccines, SAEs are "known unknowns." Nature and nurture -- human genetics, history of exposure to antigens, immune system strength, nutritional status, age, and overall health are each highly heterogeneous. For a given vaccine candidate, the only way to identify the SAEs and establish their rates is to conduct very large trials, enrolling adequate numbers of people in each category of potential concern, and following patients for long enough to catch subtle long-term effects.

    These are Phase III clinical trials. Short cuts in these trials necessarily increase risks of lower vaccine efficacy and higher vaccine SAEs in subpopulations.

    The Russia-hating Washington Post is thus correct in its criticisms of this Russian program. The same apply to all accelerated programs.

    If the West had a functional media, university system, and public health establishment, its intellectuals would be in the midst of leading this "conversation" about risk.

    My own view is that higher risks are justified, given the effects of this coronavirus. But I appreciate that other reasonable people will have higher or lower thresholds for themselves and their families.

    There's already a mechanism for risk-sharing, it's called "insurance." The concept is applied to vaccine-caused injury and death through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. In a world where the U.S. had better elites, the general public would already be familiar with this approach, and citizens would be debating its application to Covid-19.

    But we don't live in that world.

    Replies: @International Jew, @ic1000

    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself? That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren’t they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Granted, getting vaccinated means you get exposed to (dead) wuflu as a certainty, and not getting vaccinated you can hope you just won’t get exposed at all. But sooner or later we’ll all get exposed, and frankly this social distancing is starting to feel like a shitty kind of life.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @International Jew

    > How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Good question, but I wouldn't look at it that way. A vaccine is a class of drug. Medicinal chemists can tell a lot by gazing at the chemical formula of a candidate small-molecule drug, but they can make only the vaguest predictions of its safety and efficacy. A rigorous and lengthy clinical testing program is the only way to find out.

    Here is a relevant paragraph from Slate Star Codex:


    ...vaccination is a method of intervention, not one specific intervention. The statement “vaccines are safe” cannot be applied across the board to all vaccines that ever have or ever will be created, any more than you could say, “prescription drugs are safe” for all current and future prescription drugs. This question would hinge more on our confidence in the clinical approval process to ensure drug safety... In that sense, any general complaint you might make about prescription drug approval or safety could equally apply to any vaccine. In addition, a dozen studies demonstrating the safety of the DTaP vaccine do not demonstrate that MMR is safe. Studies for [the MMR vaccine] have to be conducted independently, just as studies about [small-molecule drug] amlodipine do not tell us whether [small-molecule drug] olmesartan is safe.
     
    , @Peter Lund
    @International Jew

    They are sometimes made from parts of viruses ("dead" viruses). They are sometimes made from viruses that have been "weakened" = they have been cultured in animals or in non-human cell cultures, perhaps passing through several different animals/cell cultures so natural selection changed them so they no longer are dangerous to humans. They are sometimes made from viruses that are related to the ones we want protection from. There are many traditional ways of making vaccines.

    And we are now working on vaccines made from DNA similar to (part of) the DNA used by the viruses we want protection from. Or RNA similar to (part of) the RNA used by the viruses we want protection from. Or "designer" protein that is similar to proteins used by the viruses we want protection from.

    This latter stuff is pretty new. There's been pouring *lots* of time and money into it this year because that is one of our best hopes for a SARS-CoV-19 vaccine. We have tried to find vaccines against the other corona viruses (that cause colds) for some time without any success so this is an avenue that hasn't been explored before.

    Whether or not it will work for SARS-CoV-19, we will *definitely* advance the state of the art for protein/RNA/DNA vaccines in this year and the next. This is a good thing, because it will most likely enable us to make vaccines faster (and cheaper) in the future.

    Another thing that I think people are working on is the puzzle of why the 4 non-dangerous corona viruses don't really cause immunity. We know that many existing vaccines work much better with thimerosal in them (a tiny, tiny bit of a complete safe mercury compound), possibly because it triggers a "danger" signal that makes the immune system take the "threat" seriously. Something that reliably fools the immune system into believing the vaccine poses a threat, which therefore makes the vaccine work better, would be very, very useful in the future.

    , @El Dato
    @International Jew


    That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren’t they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?
     
    It cannot but the principle is that the vaccine teaches your immune system something about the live virus, by presenting a recognizable part (a dead virus, or a part of the envelope).

    This is a bit of a complex procedure. What can go wrong:

    - Your immune system doesn't care and doesn't learn
    - Your immune system learns but forgets quickly
    - Your immune system learns but learns the wrong thing (in bad cases, it starts attacking some other part of your body, which may become apparent only much later; this may depend heavily on genetic makeup of the person vaccinated too, so you want to keep tracking patients and keep those statistics up-to-date)
    - Your immune system panics and goes into overdrive; you end up in the ICU (does this happen often?)
    - If the virus can reassemble itself, that may be bad

    As for production values, the vaccine production needs to be high-quality (don't want something bad slipping into the product), storage needs to be high-quality (no overheating on the tarmac), tracking from producer-to-patient needs to be high quality (no ripoff substitutions from a chinese microlab please); same as for CPUs really.

    Replies: @Travis

    , @res
    @International Jew


    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself?
     
    Adjuvants are one possible reason.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjuvant

    Aluminum adjuvants seem to be the most controversial.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21568886
  14. So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a “novel” corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19. And this amazing “virus” has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.

    In the meantime, the vaccines being developed are all going to “work” in the sense that they are preventing a disease that doesn’t actually exist from recurring. However, and it it really is a big however, every “vaccine” in development will rely upon RNA genetic manipulation, with unforeseen and unforeseeable consequences. suppose a genetically altered “human” mates with another genetically altered “human” and produces offspring with unexpected severe genetic abnormalities…….oops. Not to mention that EVERY SINGLE LAST vaccine of this sort has shown the same results. Protection of the individual from one or two varieties of the illness, a severe worsening of response to other, similar strains of the illness. In every case the cure was literally much worse than the disease.

    So hell yes, get one of those vaccines. The world economy disintegrates at an accelerating pace, totalitarian measure amounting to war crimes are happily, willingly, embraced by entire populations in their fear of an imaginary illness, ( And for those of you who want to just keep arguing this fact, a new appearing illness sickens and kills otherwise healthy people, “covid-19” has yet to kill a single healthy person.), most people rush to embrace “vaccines” that don’t work, have severe side effects, contain cells from aborted babies AND heavy metal nano-particles, but yes, you are all on the right track with this.

    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won’t kill a single one of you.

    • Replies: @Thoughts
    @theMann

    I won't be dead because I agree with you

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @theMann

    I'm not one of the morons, so I should be fine, right?

    It ain't the effects of the COVID I'm worried about, it's the effects of the Commies.

    , @Hans
    @theMann

    Mann, it's important to think of Gates' new vaccine as software.

    , @El Dato
    @theMann


    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a “novel” corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19.
     
    Not at all. Where do you people get that stuff?

    And this amazing “virus” has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.
     
    This makes no sense front, back and bottom. Review your assumptions.

    Replies: @theMann

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @theMann


    And this amazing “virus” has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities.
     
    The virus is basically like a bad common cold, which can kill you only if you are so sick from other conditions that covid acts as the "straw that breaks the camel's back."

    Logically, every straw is equally responsible for the camel's broken back. But the perverted logic of the CDC/Media is that only the covid "straw" counts as "the cause."

    If covid were analyzed accurately as a merely contributory factor, rather than "the cause" of a chronically sick person's death, its true risk could be quantified pretty easily by anyone with access to the data.

    Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two. We could probably cancel out its entire negative effect by, for example, having each American agree to exercise for ten minutes a day. Wouldn't that be better than self-destructing our economy and Constitution?

    But alas, we live in an age of lying idiocracy.

    Replies: @HA

    , @Muggles
    @theMann

    >>Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.

    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won’t kill a single one of you.<<

    One of the nice things about iSteve commentators and the Unz forum is the variety of opinion and sometimes remarkable bits of news and analysis offered.

    On the other hand, like this (as reflected in just a couple of sentences) we are offered near psychotic abuse. By someone seeming to suffer from both severe megalomania and angry depression. This kind of rage isn't opining, but demanding unquestioning agreement. But in the meantime, a nice heaping bowl of scorn and hatred.

    Why direct this at iSteve or his commentators?

    Time to refill that Rx. Maybe stronger this time. Or visit a pot shop. Mellow out dude. And I almost never say that...

    Replies: @HA

  15. @JohnPlywood

    But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    No they didn't.

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia's space program.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-forgotten-rocketeers-german-scientists-in-the-soviet-union-1945-1959/

    Replies: @International Jew, @Anonymous, @Bardon Kaldian, @Tom-in-VA, @siberiancat, @S. Anonyia

    Germans or not, the Russkies don’t stand a chance against Team USA. We got Kizzmekia Corbett!

  16. they won the first two legs of the Space Race.

    In fairness, Eastern Europe has a long history of having excellent mathematics instruction. And they had a real genius given huge resources in Sergel Korolev and after his death, struggled to keep up.

    Russia today is not in good shape, much of Eastern Europe has been lauded as ‘based’ simply because it hasn’t undergone a demographic influx that forces a kind of veto on the topic of immigration because it means the natives are never alone to talk to each other about it. (See the massive difference the topic takes in Denmark compared to other Western countries and most starkly it’s neighbour Sweden due in part to the massively lower amounts of immigration it has received since the DPP managed to get into a conservative coalition and influence immigration policy at a key period in the late 90s/early 00s when things took off) Much like how blacks keep Chicago due to nobody wanting to go there.

    The low trust and corrupt nature of such societies has many negative effects on things like this. Expect a lot of lies, exaggerations and corruption. But perhaps a disregard for stricter regulations on safety of test subjects will lead to them being able to develop a vaccine faster. Normal regulatory approval and trial lengths everywhere will have to be ignored in any event for any vaccine to be of any value.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Altai


    In fairness, Eastern Europe has a long history of having excellent mathematics instruction.
     
    There is an argument to be made that the Manhattan Project is simply a Hungarian high school science fair project that was backed by the US Government.

    Replies: @Matt Buckalew

  17. @theMann
    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a "novel" corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19. And this amazing "virus" has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.


    In the meantime, the vaccines being developed are all going to "work" in the sense that they are preventing a disease that doesn't actually exist from recurring. However, and it it really is a big however, every "vaccine" in development will rely upon RNA genetic manipulation, with unforeseen and unforeseeable consequences. suppose a genetically altered "human" mates with another genetically altered "human" and produces offspring with unexpected severe genetic abnormalities.......oops. Not to mention that EVERY SINGLE LAST vaccine of this sort has shown the same results. Protection of the individual from one or two varieties of the illness, a severe worsening of response to other, similar strains of the illness. In every case the cure was literally much worse than the disease.


    So hell yes, get one of those vaccines. The world economy disintegrates at an accelerating pace, totalitarian measure amounting to war crimes are happily, willingly, embraced by entire populations in their fear of an imaginary illness, ( And for those of you who want to just keep arguing this fact, a new appearing illness sickens and kills otherwise healthy people, "covid-19" has yet to kill a single healthy person.), most people rush to embrace "vaccines" that don't work, have severe side effects, contain cells from aborted babies AND heavy metal nano-particles, but yes, you are all on the right track with this.


    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won't kill a single one of you.

    Replies: @Thoughts, @Achmed E. Newman, @Hans, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Muggles

    I won’t be dead because I agree with you

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Thoughts


    I won’t be dead because I agree with you
     
    Death may be preferable to the world our betters appear to have planned for us proles.
  18. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.

    Yes they did, by stealing US technology, copying it, and reducing safety standards to save time.

    Maybe the same here, I too hope it is efficient and safe but wouldn’t want to be in on the first couple of batches.

    • Disagree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @anon
    @Gordo

    Right now, Russia is the only country with a proven human rated rocket. NASA has been paying about $100 million per seat to access ISS. Our DoD classified missions (spy satellites etc.) are launched with rockets made by ULA which use Russian engines. We won't have anything to replace Russian engines for a while, if it ever happens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180

    Replies: @anon

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Gordo

    "stealing US technology, copying it, and reducing safety standards to save time"

    The Soviets had the great advantage of not doing their space program in public, but the US didn't have a rocket capable of launching a satellite when Sputnik went up, nor did they have one capable of orbit when Gagarin went up.

    In fact it was the US who pulled further projected sub-orbital Redstone flights after Gherman Titov spent a day orbiting the earth, and went straight to Atlas flights. At the time Gagarin went up, Atlas had only had two sub-orbital flights, one of which blew up. The third, two weeks after Gagarin, was an orbital attempt that failed and had to be destroyed.

    John Glenn was more generous than you are - "well, they just beat the pants off us".

  19. @ic1000
    Not "Democracy Dies In Darkness" but "We Get It Wrong, Even When Right."

    Isabelle Khurshudyan and Carolyn Y. Johnson: "...raising global alarm that [Russia] is jumping dangerously ahead of critical, large scale testing that is essential to determine if it is safe and effective… outside scientists worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity."

    Successful vaccine development programs generally take 10 to 12 years to go from concept to widespread implementation. Why, Khursudyan & Johnson? Sailer's 50/50 heuristic is likely applicable here: By upping spending and prioritizing, a program can probably be compressed to 5-6 years, without risking higher side effects or lower efficacy.

    Nobody is talking about a 5 year program for Covid-19. The critique is valid for all programs with timelines measured in months rather than years.

    Paradoxically, the problem is more acute because SARS-CoV-2's infection fatality rate (~0.3%) is closer to influenza (~0.05%) than to smallpox (variola major, ~20%). Consider vaccinating 200 million Americans with a vaccine with "pretty good" numbers, a Severe Adverse Event rate of one per thousand people. That'd cause 200,000 deaths/severe complications. A reasonable risk for most people compared to a smallpox epidemic, completely unacceptable in the cases of flu or Covid-19 (the current US death toll stands at about 170,000).

    For new vaccines, SAEs are "known unknowns." Nature and nurture -- human genetics, history of exposure to antigens, immune system strength, nutritional status, age, and overall health are each highly heterogeneous. For a given vaccine candidate, the only way to identify the SAEs and establish their rates is to conduct very large trials, enrolling adequate numbers of people in each category of potential concern, and following patients for long enough to catch subtle long-term effects.

    These are Phase III clinical trials. Short cuts in these trials necessarily increase risks of lower vaccine efficacy and higher vaccine SAEs in subpopulations.

    The Russia-hating Washington Post is thus correct in its criticisms of this Russian program. The same apply to all accelerated programs.

    If the West had a functional media, university system, and public health establishment, its intellectuals would be in the midst of leading this "conversation" about risk.

    My own view is that higher risks are justified, given the effects of this coronavirus. But I appreciate that other reasonable people will have higher or lower thresholds for themselves and their families.

    There's already a mechanism for risk-sharing, it's called "insurance." The concept is applied to vaccine-caused injury and death through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. In a world where the U.S. had better elites, the general public would already be familiar with this approach, and citizens would be debating its application to Covid-19.

    But we don't live in that world.

    Replies: @International Jew, @ic1000

    Clarification, I wrote about a hypothetical vaccine with “pretty good” safety numbers, a Severe Adverse Event rate of 1:100,000. For 2017, Canada reported 253 vaccination-related SAEs nationwide, for a rate of 1.1 per 100,000 people. Seizure and anaphylaxis were the most common events; there were 4 deaths (0.02/100,000). Approved vaccines are very safe, compared to the risks of the diseases they prevent.

  20. ooh and the MSM favorite solution, lockdown, continues to bat .000 at virus extinction.

    Nobody clamped down harder or patted themselves on the back more than New Zealand under the regularly hysterical PM Jacinda Ardern and yet… they just discovered community transmission unrelated to any known travel today:

    (WELLINGTON, New Zealand) — New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Tuesday that authorities have found four cases of the coronavirus in one Auckland household from an unknown source, the first reported cases of local transmission in the country in 102 days.

    https://time.com/5878299/new-zealand-covid-auckland-cases/

    • Thanks: Muggles
  21. @International Jew
    @ic1000

    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself? That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren't they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Granted, getting vaccinated means you get exposed to (dead) wuflu as a certainty, and not getting vaccinated you can hope you just won't get exposed at all. But sooner or later we'll all get exposed, and frankly this social distancing is starting to feel like a shitty kind of life.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Peter Lund, @El Dato, @res

    > How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Good question, but I wouldn’t look at it that way. A vaccine is a class of drug. Medicinal chemists can tell a lot by gazing at the chemical formula of a candidate small-molecule drug, but they can make only the vaguest predictions of its safety and efficacy. A rigorous and lengthy clinical testing program is the only way to find out.

    Here is a relevant paragraph from Slate Star Codex:

    …vaccination is a method of intervention, not one specific intervention. The statement “vaccines are safe” cannot be applied across the board to all vaccines that ever have or ever will be created, any more than you could say, “prescription drugs are safe” for all current and future prescription drugs. This question would hinge more on our confidence in the clinical approval process to ensure drug safety… In that sense, any general complaint you might make about prescription drug approval or safety could equally apply to any vaccine. In addition, a dozen studies demonstrating the safety of the DTaP vaccine do not demonstrate that MMR is safe. Studies for [the MMR vaccine] have to be conducted independently, just as studies about [small-molecule drug] amlodipine do not tell us whether [small-molecule drug] olmesartan is safe.

  22. Currently have corona vax for livestock. Short-lived and unacceptably large number of bad reactions (illness & death) from it to use on humans.

    I’d bet against any kung flu vax with safety & efficacy up to the standards now extant in the west for other vax.

    • Replies: @gcochran
    @roo_ster

    The animal vaccines are for different coronaviruses.

  23. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnPlywood

    But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    No they didn't.

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia's space program.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-forgotten-rocketeers-german-scientists-in-the-soviet-union-1945-1959/

    Replies: @International Jew, @Anonymous, @Bardon Kaldian, @Tom-in-VA, @siberiancat, @S. Anonyia

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.

    And America’s: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Anonymous

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    The legitimate UFO phenomenon (not misidentified stars or regular craft) is also likely partially related German NS expatriates and their descendants, in the Americas.

    Replies: @Querc, @John Johnson, @Jack D

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Anonymous

    This is a pretty good documentary on the early Russian space program.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyYosDaZAg

    Replies: @Bubba

    , @GoVadgers
    @Anonymous


    And America’s: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.
     
    American ingenuity. Nothing beats it. Sadly it’s almost completely gone these days. Outsourced to a bunch of Panjeet scammers.

    From Wikipedia:


    At the time, Germany was highly interested in American physicist Robert H. Goddard's research. Before 1939, German scientists occasionally contacted Goddard directly with technical questions. Von Braun used Goddard's plans from various journals and incorporated them into the building of the Aggregat (A) series of rockets. The A-4 rocket would become well known as the V-2.[29] In 1963, von Braun reflected on the history of rocketry, and said of Goddard's work: "His rockets ... may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
     

    , @Peter Lund
    @Anonymous

    So did the nuclear bomb projects. The really expensive part of the Manhattan Project was the Uranium enrichment. The Soviets used gas turbines developed by captured Germans, which was much, much, much cheaper and faster. The German research into nuclear weapons didn't amount to much, except for their centrifuge research. The Soviets got all the best centrifuge guys.

    (The US got most of the greatest physicists of the Axis Powers before the war had even begun.)

    , @John Johnson
    @Anonymous

    That is the dirty secret.

    US and Soviets played a game of who could make better use of their captured German scientists. Both sides pretended their successes were the natural result of capitalism or communism.

    Where would the US be without Von Braun?

    He and Shockley are the greats that we aren't supposed to talk about.

    Shockley changed the world but had to be buried from the public mind for calling BS on liberal lysenko beliefs.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Buffalo Joe

    , @Milo Minderbinder
    @Anonymous

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk7n3sWdhKo

    , @Captain Tripps
    @Anonymous

    Time for a shot of "The Right Stuff":

    https://youtu.be/1dSkX9VySOI?t=120

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).
     
    Yes, and the nuclear race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their Jewish scientists and technicians.

    The Germans blew that, and China and India were the first exceptions. Both are gigantic with enormous smart fractions and millennia of experience with mathematics. In their case, Jews were optional.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  24. @JohnPlywood

    But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    No they didn't.

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia's space program.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-forgotten-rocketeers-german-scientists-in-the-soviet-union-1945-1959/

    Replies: @International Jew, @Anonymous, @Bardon Kaldian, @Tom-in-VA, @siberiancat, @S. Anonyia

    Partly. Korolev was the central man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

    By the way, vaccine might work; just, perhaps it should be complemented by new medications when you already get the Kung flu.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Bardon Kaldian

    No he wasn't and he went nowhere prior to getting German rockets.

  25. @vhrm
    The american MSM aren't the fourth estate they're the fifth column in America's (and the World's ) fight against corona and, well, everything.

    They don't seem to like ANYTHING other than people hiding in their homes forever regardless of any costs. Everything else is an unacceptable risk. Oh, except of course for looting, BLM and anti-police protesting, and random BIPOC parties... those things are ok.

    But, going to school? NO
    going to the park? NO
    hydroxychloroquine? NO
    herd immunity? NO
    vaccines? NO (oh, they're our only hope, but that's only when they're theoretical. ACTUAL vaccines which would allow the lockdown to end soon? say... before some random day in early November? oh no WAY too dangerous)

    Such a collection of soyboys and Negative Nancys as our current crop of reporters and columnists has rarely been seen.

    (not that we should really jump on these vaccines, because for most people they're not even necessary / worth it, and, for the people who really need them, the elderly infirm and the obese, they probably don't work well anyway.
    https://khn.org/news/americas-obesity-epidemic-threatens-effectiveness-of-any-covid-vaccine/)

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Anon7, @Franz Liszt von raiding, @Anonymous

    The american MSM aren’t the fourth estate they’re the fifth column in America’s (and the World’s ) fight against corona and, well, everything.

    A sane society would have….uh….broomed all these people long ago.

  26. Anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    No vaccine “works.”

    1. There is no vaccine that stops the infection in 100 percent of cases … 50 percent would be really good.

    2. Vaccines only target specific variants, so they have to be constantly updated and will always be behind and imperfect.

    3. Vaccines are less effective on certain population groups, including the elderly and the obese, two particularly vulnerable groups for Covid.

    4. Hopefully a lot of people will get one or more Covid vaccine shots, but even with conpulsory vaccines like childhood vaccines, many don’t get them. With Covid you’re going to see a leveling off where people hope to coast in the glide stream of others. And it may be that you need so many boosters that people will tire of the vaccines.

    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff. Which you already know if you’ve ever read the fine print on the thing you signed prior to any vaccine you have received.

    In the end vaccines will help reduce the chances of getting the disease, and treatment regimes and drugs will make recovery safer. (The whole “chronic Covid” thing is still an unknown … maybe you never really recover.) So the odds that you balance when you decide you want to get out in the world a little more will be more in favor of going out if there are vaccines.

    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.

    • Disagree: RadicalCenter, northeast
    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Anon

    Two three times, you paint a picture of a very bleak future. Remember concerts and sports are also part of the scholastic experience, not just professional entertainment.

    Replies: @anon

    , @James Speaks
    @Anon

    It would be good if at least part of the population, meaning those with future time orientation, adopted a strategy of really healthy living as a prophylactic against COVID.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Anon


    the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports
     
    That's insane.

    People just need to go back their regular lives. If you're elderly or diabetic, you know what to do--socially distance, stay home, wear masks, take Vitamin D, thank God for a good life, and get your affairs in order. If you're pre-diabetic or obese or out of shape, it's own you to change your risk profile.

    A highly cynical person might say that this disease seems custom-made to target the people who are the highest burden on our healthcare system.

    Anyhow, young people who are economically productive shouldn't organize their lives around the elderly and sick.

    Replies: @anon

    , @jsm
    @Anon


    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff.
     
    I would like to know, and list some specific examples, please, just who these "crazy antivaxxers" are who should be "understandably deplatformed."

    Because all the ones I've read who've been called "crazy antivaxxers," when I actually read / listened to what they said, were making the point that no vaccine is completely safe and there are risk -benefit tradeoffs (and that some of the risks of some vaccines far outweigh the benefits in general, or for specific populations in particular.)

    So WHO are you talking about?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Anon


    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.
     
    This now routinely said. And clearly there are powerful interests that are promoting this - those interests that want, for whatever reason, a society broken down into isolated, atomized, mutually mistrustful loners.

    Who says everything has to change? Who says we can't go back to normal? The Spanish Influenza has been estimated to have killed 0.63% of the population of America. When it was over, America went right back to normal. Far from being a nation of anti-social shut-ins, the subsequent decade was known as "The Roaring Twenties".

    Replies: @Anon

  27. @vhrm
    The american MSM aren't the fourth estate they're the fifth column in America's (and the World's ) fight against corona and, well, everything.

    They don't seem to like ANYTHING other than people hiding in their homes forever regardless of any costs. Everything else is an unacceptable risk. Oh, except of course for looting, BLM and anti-police protesting, and random BIPOC parties... those things are ok.

    But, going to school? NO
    going to the park? NO
    hydroxychloroquine? NO
    herd immunity? NO
    vaccines? NO (oh, they're our only hope, but that's only when they're theoretical. ACTUAL vaccines which would allow the lockdown to end soon? say... before some random day in early November? oh no WAY too dangerous)

    Such a collection of soyboys and Negative Nancys as our current crop of reporters and columnists has rarely been seen.

    (not that we should really jump on these vaccines, because for most people they're not even necessary / worth it, and, for the people who really need them, the elderly infirm and the obese, they probably don't work well anyway.
    https://khn.org/news/americas-obesity-epidemic-threatens-effectiveness-of-any-covid-vaccine/)

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Anon7, @Franz Liszt von raiding, @Anonymous

    “They don’t seem to like ANYTHING other than people hiding in their homes forever regardless of any costs.”

    Thank God this Covid-19 nightmare has opened all our eyes. AND if we wear masks for Covid, we should CERTAINLY wear masks EVERY FALL for the FLU, you know, just out of an ABUNDANCE of CAUTION. NO church, especially no SINGING in church, no businesses except for stores so big you think you’re outside. Don’t ever get closer than six feet to any other human being, and for crying out loud don’t show your face to another person, not even in the mirror – you might reinfect yourself.

    Thank God the Left progressive libtards have socialism waiting in the wings – you can’t count on free enterprise, you can only count on that big government check every month. Once big government got big enough to vote for itself and win, it was all over anyway.

    • Agree: Old Prude
  28. “Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Tuesday that the country has become the first to approve a coronavirus vaccine.”

    There Putin goes again, trying to help Donald Trump win the election. They’re quick – in the old days, it took 5 Year Plans to solve problems; now the Russkis have 5 Month Plans.

    • LOL: vhrm
  29. @Altai

    they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    In fairness, Eastern Europe has a long history of having excellent mathematics instruction. And they had a real genius given huge resources in Sergel Korolev and after his death, struggled to keep up.

    Russia today is not in good shape, much of Eastern Europe has been lauded as 'based' simply because it hasn't undergone a demographic influx that forces a kind of veto on the topic of immigration because it means the natives are never alone to talk to each other about it. (See the massive difference the topic takes in Denmark compared to other Western countries and most starkly it's neighbour Sweden due in part to the massively lower amounts of immigration it has received since the DPP managed to get into a conservative coalition and influence immigration policy at a key period in the late 90s/early 00s when things took off) Much like how blacks keep Chicago due to nobody wanting to go there.

    The low trust and corrupt nature of such societies has many negative effects on things like this. Expect a lot of lies, exaggerations and corruption. But perhaps a disregard for stricter regulations on safety of test subjects will lead to them being able to develop a vaccine faster. Normal regulatory approval and trial lengths everywhere will have to be ignored in any event for any vaccine to be of any value.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    In fairness, Eastern Europe has a long history of having excellent mathematics instruction.

    There is an argument to be made that the Manhattan Project is simply a Hungarian high school science fair project that was backed by the US Government.

    • Replies: @Matt Buckalew
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Sure but in making that argument you are basically telling everyone you are Hungarian which means you better be able to at least fake being Hungarian nobility or else the status hit you take can’t possibly be worth it.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  30. @Thoughts
    @theMann

    I won't be dead because I agree with you

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    I won’t be dead because I agree with you

    Death may be preferable to the world our betters appear to have planned for us proles.

  31. @Dumbo

    The aggressive strategy from a country eager to declare a victory amid one of the worst outbreaks in the world has been criticized by outside scientists who worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity. China has already authorized one vaccine for use in its military, ahead of definitive data that it is safe and effective.
     
    Chinese and Russian vaccines, bad. But if you are hesitant about being injected with vaccines made by American or European countries, or if you are suspicious of, say, Bill Gates' plans, you're an "anti vaxxer", a "conspiracy theorist" and a "loon". Funny how that works.

    Well, I for one ain't taking none of them. I guess I will take my chances with the virus directly, which at least doesn't contain mercury. ;-) :-P

    Replies: @John Cunningham, @Alexander Turok, @Paul Mendez

    My pal the retired ENT doc says that he never takes a vaccine in it’s first year of use.

    • Agree: epebble
    • Replies: @Billy Shears
    @John Cunningham

    Can you have him point us in the direction of reports of "bad" vaccines?

  32. @Bardon Kaldian
    @JohnPlywood

    Partly. Korolev was the central man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

    By the way, vaccine might work; just, perhaps it should be complemented by new medications when you already get the Kung flu.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    No he wasn’t and he went nowhere prior to getting German rockets.

  33. OT
    “AlgorithmWatch” cancels another racist AI:

    Google apologizes after its Vision AI produced racist results

    In an experiment that became viral on Twitter, AlgorithmWatch showed that Google Vision Cloud, a computer vision service, labeled an image of a dark-skinned individual holding a thermometer “gun” while a similar image with a light-skinned individual was labeled “electronic device”. A subsequent experiment showed that the image of a dark-skinned hand holding a thermometer was labelled “gun” and that the same image with a salmon-colored overlay on the hand was enough for the computer to label it “monocular”.

    In a statement to AlgorithmWatch, Tracy Frey, director of Product Strategy and Operations at Google, wrote that “this result [was] unacceptable. The connection with this outcome and racism is important to recognize

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    He was holding the thermometer sideways

    Replies: @Rob McX

    , @AnotherDad
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    In an experiment that became viral on Twitter, AlgorithmWatch showed that Google Vision Cloud, a computer vision service, labeled an image of a dark-skinned individual holding a thermometer “gun” while a similar image with a light-skinned individual was labeled “electronic device”.
     
    Didn't realize AI had gotten this clever.
  34. @vhrm
    The american MSM aren't the fourth estate they're the fifth column in America's (and the World's ) fight against corona and, well, everything.

    They don't seem to like ANYTHING other than people hiding in their homes forever regardless of any costs. Everything else is an unacceptable risk. Oh, except of course for looting, BLM and anti-police protesting, and random BIPOC parties... those things are ok.

    But, going to school? NO
    going to the park? NO
    hydroxychloroquine? NO
    herd immunity? NO
    vaccines? NO (oh, they're our only hope, but that's only when they're theoretical. ACTUAL vaccines which would allow the lockdown to end soon? say... before some random day in early November? oh no WAY too dangerous)

    Such a collection of soyboys and Negative Nancys as our current crop of reporters and columnists has rarely been seen.

    (not that we should really jump on these vaccines, because for most people they're not even necessary / worth it, and, for the people who really need them, the elderly infirm and the obese, they probably don't work well anyway.
    https://khn.org/news/americas-obesity-epidemic-threatens-effectiveness-of-any-covid-vaccine/)

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Anon7, @Franz Liszt von raiding, @Anonymous

    Yes I’ve been saying it for past few weeks :
    The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!

  35. Lets hope so.

    Lockdown + two metres + contact tracing + masks + eye shields + butt plugs + mandatory bimonthly vaccinations; for a few years should do the trick and put this virus on the wane.

  36. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    The legitimate UFO phenomenon (not misidentified stars or regular craft) is also likely partially related German NS expatriates and their descendants, in the Americas.

    • Replies: @Querc
    @JohnPlywood

    "Goddard's experiments in liquid fuel saved us years of work, and enabled us to perfect the V-2 years before it would have been possible."
    -von Braun
    The key innovations allowing for the first liquid rockets made by an American starting in the 20s. The Germans were just the first to put serious resources into it. Militarily it turned out to be a huge waste of resources for them and a benefit to is when we grabbed their scientists.

    , @John Johnson
    @JohnPlywood

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    Rocketry was certainly developed by the Germans along with modern artillery tactics. The Brits had the first tank but the Germans built their army around it.

    Most gun development however comes from the US. A lot of auto-loading ideas came from a single person (John Browning).

    US born Hiram Maxim invented the machine gun after overhearing someone joke at a party that the way to get rich is to invent something that allows Europeans to cut each other down.

    The MG-42 however was certainly an impressive improvement over the Maxim and the design lives on to this day.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    , @Jack D
    @JohnPlywood

    Not nuclear weapons, unless you count Jews as Germans (the Germans sure didn't).

    Also very little having to do with transistors, electronic digital computers and microchips was invented by Germans (again not counting Jews like Kleiner). Zuse's Z3 was programmable and Turing complete but it was electro-mechanical (relay based) which made it extremely slow (4 or 5 Hz). That Hz, not kiloHz or megaHz or anything Hz, just plain Hz.

    Replies: @El Dato, @JohnPlywood

  37. Just a reminder:

    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.

    So weird. It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.

    • Agree: epebble
    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @anonymous2space


    So weird. It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.
     
    "This is your nation on Immigration and Diversity"

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    , @Querc
    @anonymous2space

    SpaceX just returned its first space station crew to earth last week and did a test hop with a prototype of their colossal Mars rocket. They grabbed control of the commercial launch market from Russia several years ago.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @anonymous2space


    It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.
     
    NASA started going full poz after von Braun and the other Germans retired.

    Witness the sad case of Arthur Rudolph:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Rudolph
    , @Peter Lund
    @anonymous2space

    The US is actually ahead *right now*. Elon Musk has just started taking paying customers to the ISS.

    Atlas V, Delta IV Heavy, and Falcon Heavy are all extremely capable rockets. Musk's Falcon Heavy is also quite cheap for what it does. The regular Falcon 9 is quite cheap and reliable for regular-sized payloads. The Merlin engine is remarkably reliable, cheap, and powerful for its weight. The Raptor engine is remarkably efficient and powerful -- and it is the most developed full flow stage combustion engine the world has ever seen. Probably not good enough for real world use yet, but that should only be a matter of time.

    , @Svigor
    @anonymous2space

    No they aren't. SpaceX is eating everyone's lunch, including the Russians'. Yes, our program floundered for many years and the Russian program was old reliable in terms of the RD engines, but that's just one niche. And that chapter of the story is pretty much closed now.

    And frankly, what we were relying on Russia for isn't what's been (rightly) making headlines, like SpaceX' launch cadence, their work on propulsive landing, reusability, Starship, Starlink, etc.

    That said, Russia has a very respectable space program, and I hope they can do what they have to do to keep it competitive in the rapidly changing launch industry.

    P.S., kinda funny that we relied on those awful Germans to make our first era of space exploration possible, and now we're relying on one of those awful South Africans to pick up where those awful Germans left off.

    We wrecked both their countries, but we got a space program out of it...

    , @Matt Buckalew
    @anonymous2space

    It’s almost like once we humiliated the Russians by getting to moon first we realized that space exploration is just nerd porn and moved on to different things.

    What’s with the boomer tendency to build up basket case countries like Iran and Russia as anything like peer competitors with the US. If TFW no get pussy is so bad that you want to see America defeated your only bet is China.

    , @John Johnson
    @anonymous2space

    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*.

    Does anyone care?

    I never understood why so many in the US cared about the space race when we are massively in debt trying to fund egalitarian fiction. Maybe we question funding lies before putting more rockets in space.

    I can imagine a future dystopia where we put a man on mars and then the US collapses into anarchy upon his return.

    Then a Con Inc type would get teary eyed and wave a flag before being eaten by a roving cannibal gang.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    , @El Dato
    @anonymous2space


    So weird. It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.
     
    That's the usual fate of Heroic Engineering projects. They work once, then they basically crash under their own weight because there is no _chain of production_ that is reliable and smooth enough to perform repeats at economic cost, or even any cost.

    Even the Space Shuttle was eventually abandoned when it became clear that far from being a serial lifting job, it was another Heroic Engineering with enormous unknowns and far higher risks than anyone had anticipated.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @anon
    @anonymous2space

    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.

    Lol, what cave are you currently living in? A SpaceX Crew Dragon was launched from Canaveral weeks ago on top of a SpaceX Falcon rocket. It docked with the ISS, then just returned last week.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/spacex-capsule-endeavor-splashes-down-213600612.html

    American astronauts launched from American soil in an American capsule on top of an American rocket at a substantially lower cost than what NASA was paying the Russians. That's the latest.

    Next up, Branson plans to take tourists suborbital.

  38. @Achmed E. Newman

    Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it ...
     
    How much time would you want to let go by before you did? Who says the side-effects of vaccines is short-term? It's great that the Chinese have their own ready-made guinea pigs in the PLA. I'm guessing that in Russia, it would be the same situation as here for the healthcare employees - don't get the shot and you lose your job.

    Though a vaccine will be a great thing for the old and otherwise vulnerable, it will just put off any chance of the sheep seeing the way they've been fooled with this phony crisis. Even if society is let to try to get back to normal, what has been done is to proof-test the idea of LOCKDOWNS and face-diaper wearing as normal things that can be implemented again at the whim of government officials. When's the next one coming? Don't throw out those full-face masks yet that you end up wearing even outside in the sunshine to accessorize.


    .

    PS: In case I get Mr. Godfree Roberts with his graphs with the circles and arrows showing the successes of Chairman Mao, or some of the Russia boosters like Anon-who-still-lives-in-Tennessee-though, I'm not knocking anything in particular about the Chinese or Russians having concocted a vaccine vs. Americans having done the same.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Svigor, @Cloudbuster, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    Agree. If I were in a risk group, I might be more eager for it. But I think I would still hold off on being big pharma’s guinea pig.

    On the other hand, if I were in poor health, 80 yrs old, and living in a nursing home I might jump at the chance to get the first or second round.

  39. Russia took Corona very seriously very early. They ramped up production of Corona tests early in the year, while US fumbled. You can say that Russia won the test race, and, as a result, took a large chunk of the world market. Indeed, according to this Newsweek article, over a third (!) of the Covid tests administered in the US through July were imported from Russia.
    https://www.newsweek.com/russia-got-right-coronavirus-covid-19-share-world-1517541?fbclid=IwAR1XV8sDMI6r-PBLl_YhiuyJtCb5KoikCu_Sh8No1VDf3omyphRF_luGMS4

    It’s easy to imagine a similar situation with vaccines. How much of vaccine development in America is just lawyers writing reports? But even then, Russian vaccine is not going to be available to general public until January, which probably means that American vaccine is not going to appear for another year at least.

    • Thanks: PiltdownMan
  40. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.

    I think it is fair to say that they won the fourth (or fifth, depending on how you count them) leg of the Space Race, too. We had 50% hull losses in our program to routinely shuttle astronauts into orbit to for term orbital stays, with 14 killed. Their boring old Soyuz program just kept ferrying humans up into orbit without fuss, both their and ours.

  41. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    This is a pretty good documentary on the early Russian space program.

    • Replies: @Bubba
    @PiltdownMan

    Thanks for this. I haven't posted in a while so I don't have the "Thanks" button option.

  42. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    So weird. It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.

    “This is your nation on Immigration and Diversity”

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @HammerJack

    I am a big immigration hawk, but that is silly.

    We wouldn’t have gotten to the Moon were it not for immigrants. Especially German scientist immigrants.

    Replies: @HammerJack

  43. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    And America’s: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    American ingenuity. Nothing beats it. Sadly it’s almost completely gone these days. Outsourced to a bunch of Panjeet scammers.

    From Wikipedia:

    At the time, Germany was highly interested in American physicist Robert H. Goddard’s research. Before 1939, German scientists occasionally contacted Goddard directly with technical questions. Von Braun used Goddard’s plans from various journals and incorporated them into the building of the Aggregat (A) series of rockets. The A-4 rocket would become well known as the V-2.[29] In 1963, von Braun reflected on the history of rocketry, and said of Goddard’s work: “His rockets … may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

  44. @JohnPlywood

    But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    No they didn't.

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia's space program.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-forgotten-rocketeers-german-scientists-in-the-soviet-union-1945-1959/

    Replies: @International Jew, @Anonymous, @Bardon Kaldian, @Tom-in-VA, @siberiancat, @S. Anonyia

    From “The Right Stuff”

  45. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    SpaceX just returned its first space station crew to earth last week and did a test hop with a prototype of their colossal Mars rocket. They grabbed control of the commercial launch market from Russia several years ago.

  46. Yeah, it’s an interesting question.

    On one hand, Russians are a lot less gay than we are. So they can just whip up a vaccine and start using it in short order.

    On the other hand, Russians are a lot less gay than we are. So they can just whip up a vaccine and start using it in short order, and kill a bunch of people because they rushed to large scale trials too quickly.

    So, citation needed, I guess.

    I’m hopeful – but I’ve also seen summaries of Soviet naval nuclear accidents vs. US.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Svigor

    Это просто грипп, братан.

  47. The secular, godless Left’s overwhelming faith in the idea of a vaccine is a function of their psychotic break with reality.

    They are literally unable to accept the fact that God, Nature, the universe have granted mankind this glorious thing called an immune system that is incredibly good at its job of fending off disease.

  48. @JohnPlywood
    @Anonymous

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    The legitimate UFO phenomenon (not misidentified stars or regular craft) is also likely partially related German NS expatriates and their descendants, in the Americas.

    Replies: @Querc, @John Johnson, @Jack D

    “Goddard’s experiments in liquid fuel saved us years of work, and enabled us to perfect the V-2 years before it would have been possible.”
    -von Braun
    The key innovations allowing for the first liquid rockets made by an American starting in the 20s. The Germans were just the first to put serious resources into it. Militarily it turned out to be a huge waste of resources for them and a benefit to is when we grabbed their scientists.

  49. @Anon
    No vaccine “works.”

    1. There is no vaccine that stops the infection in 100 percent of cases ... 50 percent would be really good.

    2. Vaccines only target specific variants, so they have to be constantly updated and will always be behind and imperfect.

    3. Vaccines are less effective on certain population groups, including the elderly and the obese, two particularly vulnerable groups for Covid.

    4. Hopefully a lot of people will get one or more Covid vaccine shots, but even with conpulsory vaccines like childhood vaccines, many don’t get them. With Covid you’re going to see a leveling off where people hope to coast in the glide stream of others. And it may be that you need so many boosters that people will tire of the vaccines.

    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff. Which you already know if you’ve ever read the fine print on the thing you signed prior to any vaccine you have received.

    In the end vaccines will help reduce the chances of getting the disease, and treatment regimes and drugs will make recovery safer. (The whole “chronic Covid” thing is still an unknown ... maybe you never really recover.) So the odds that you balance when you decide you want to get out in the world a little more will be more in favor of going out if there are vaccines.

    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @James Speaks, @Chrisnonymous, @jsm, @Mr. Anon

    Two three times, you paint a picture of a very bleak future. Remember concerts and sports are also part of the scholastic experience, not just professional entertainment.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Buffalo Joe

    "College" is gonna be very different this year, not just moving to online but in other ways. The Big 10 schools have agreed to pool online access to classes, so someone at U Michigan can take an online course at Ohio State and get transcript credit. That's pretty good thinking, but it leads towards consolidation; who needs all those different campuses full of shiny classrooms, eh?

    Professional sports and professional entertainment have only been a part of the "scholastic experience" for the last 50 - 80 years. Get in a time machine and go back 100 years; sports then would look a whole lot more like modern intramural sports, and the concerts of those days were put on by the student body and some of the faculty.

    College as 4 - 5 years of nonstop entertainment is really a late 20th century thing. Perhaps it is a luxury that we cannot afford anymore. Most people don't need to go to college anyway.

    Item: The Big 10 has canceled its football season. We'll see what other conferences do, but this will put a big hit on college town economies, possibly affect big donors, etc. and will also have ripple effects into the NFL. Maybe there's a better use for intercollegiate athletics than as de-facto minor-league feeder to the pros?

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  50. @dearieme
    I'm puzzled: what's the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?

    Replies: @Sean, @Matt Buckalew, @Jack D, @dearieme, @Hypnotoad666

    All countries will contribute of their unique talents

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Japanese-scientists-turn-to-silkworms-for-COVID-19-vaccine

    In a building on the Kyushu University campus in Fukuoka, in western Japan, “we have about 250,000 silkworms in about 500 different phylogenies (family lines),” Kusakabe said.
    In his lab a short distance away from the building, student volunteers with special permission from the university are hard at work on vaccine development. Nikkei spoke to Kusakabe in May, when Japan was under a state of emergency.Genes of the protein that forms the outer “spikes” of the new coronavirus are incorporated into the virus and injected into a silkworm. The virus is then taken into silkworm cells, and after about four days, spike proteins that can serve as vaccine material start to be produced in large quantities. These spike proteins are removed, refined and made into a vaccine that is administered via injection.

    From the thousands of insects in the lab, “we have found a type of silkworm that can efficiently manufacture the proteins,” Kusakabe said.

    Russia also has the people to reduce deaths from coronavirus.

    A quarter of Russian men expire before they reach 55 years of age.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Sean

    Russians buy FAR less alcohol per capita than they did just ten years ago, and beer and wine apparently have displaced ultrahigh-alcohol spirits like vodka as the most popular type of drink. Even wikipedia, which seems to want to make russia look as bad as possible, reports this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_in_Russia

    Citation for your claim, please?

    ......

    Having said that, I drank the smoothest, most non-alcohol-tasting vodka (“horilka”) in Ukraine some years ago. All too easy to drink. A really fun experience throwing back a couple shots with wait staff and customers whom i met at a restaurant i frequented during my visit there. But it was rather alarming how much they could drink, at least that particular group. (That is not russia, of course, and it was over ten years ago.).

    We communicated partly in German, as one of the waitresses had studied it in high school and could get by. Between my american accent in german and her even stronger ukie accent in german, it was not easy, but thank God we had that common language (only one could speak fairly well in english and he was not always on shift). They made me quite welcome and we closed the place every night for a week.

    The most memorable was the one girl telling me, in german, before we sat down together the first time after regular work hours: “Be careful. The GIRLS here can drink more than your men.”

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sean

  51. @Achmed E. Newman

    Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it ...
     
    How much time would you want to let go by before you did? Who says the side-effects of vaccines is short-term? It's great that the Chinese have their own ready-made guinea pigs in the PLA. I'm guessing that in Russia, it would be the same situation as here for the healthcare employees - don't get the shot and you lose your job.

    Though a vaccine will be a great thing for the old and otherwise vulnerable, it will just put off any chance of the sheep seeing the way they've been fooled with this phony crisis. Even if society is let to try to get back to normal, what has been done is to proof-test the idea of LOCKDOWNS and face-diaper wearing as normal things that can be implemented again at the whim of government officials. When's the next one coming? Don't throw out those full-face masks yet that you end up wearing even outside in the sunshine to accessorize.


    .

    PS: In case I get Mr. Godfree Roberts with his graphs with the circles and arrows showing the successes of Chairman Mao, or some of the Russia boosters like Anon-who-still-lives-in-Tennessee-though, I'm not knocking anything in particular about the Chinese or Russians having concocted a vaccine vs. Americans having done the same.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Svigor, @Cloudbuster, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    When I think about the gov’t asking, and in some cases even demanding that the people wear masks that heavily interfere with the corporate tyranny’s tech companies’ facial recognition software, I start shaking, literally shaking, with rage.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Svigor

    Now, see, there's a guy that finds the silver lining in everything. Svigor, I completely agree that this asking or demanding (of those who are compliant) of the wearing of face masks has that benefit. Especially under the Anarcho-Tyranny we have, with the antifa Commies getting no prosecution while the Proud Boys got 4 years in jail for defending themselves, we don't have to let this "crisis" go completely to waste ourselves.

    Anyone against the antifa should be the first to mask up were he ready to cause trouble or have it out with these antifa faggots. That, a few Sharpie marks, a bandaid (you know, cuts from shaving... your eyebrows), and a small hex-nut in one shoe to change your gait, would be the way to start off.

    What a weird world it's become. Big Brother who is almost omniscient now due to electronics, on the one hand wants to watch us anytime, anywhere. On the other hand, Big Brother demands we cover our faces just so he can get us in the habit of being told what to do any other time, based on hyped-up hysteria. Big Brother is either retarded or bipolar, one.

    .

    (I've brought your point up in the iSteve threads before. Mr. Sailer is for laws against wearing masks for disguise. I don't agree. However, what's the point of that argument now, when they are required.)

  52. Personally I’m shocked that a vaccine wasn’t first developed by some African country.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  53. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.

    NASA started going full poz after von Braun and the other Germans retired.

    Witness the sad case of Arthur Rudolph:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Rudolph

  54. @International Jew
    @ic1000

    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself? That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren't they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Granted, getting vaccinated means you get exposed to (dead) wuflu as a certainty, and not getting vaccinated you can hope you just won't get exposed at all. But sooner or later we'll all get exposed, and frankly this social distancing is starting to feel like a shitty kind of life.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Peter Lund, @El Dato, @res

    They are sometimes made from parts of viruses (“dead” viruses). They are sometimes made from viruses that have been “weakened” = they have been cultured in animals or in non-human cell cultures, perhaps passing through several different animals/cell cultures so natural selection changed them so they no longer are dangerous to humans. They are sometimes made from viruses that are related to the ones we want protection from. There are many traditional ways of making vaccines.

    And we are now working on vaccines made from DNA similar to (part of) the DNA used by the viruses we want protection from. Or RNA similar to (part of) the RNA used by the viruses we want protection from. Or “designer” protein that is similar to proteins used by the viruses we want protection from.

    This latter stuff is pretty new. There’s been pouring *lots* of time and money into it this year because that is one of our best hopes for a SARS-CoV-19 vaccine. We have tried to find vaccines against the other corona viruses (that cause colds) for some time without any success so this is an avenue that hasn’t been explored before.

    Whether or not it will work for SARS-CoV-19, we will *definitely* advance the state of the art for protein/RNA/DNA vaccines in this year and the next. This is a good thing, because it will most likely enable us to make vaccines faster (and cheaper) in the future.

    Another thing that I think people are working on is the puzzle of why the 4 non-dangerous corona viruses don’t really cause immunity. We know that many existing vaccines work much better with thimerosal in them (a tiny, tiny bit of a complete safe mercury compound), possibly because it triggers a “danger” signal that makes the immune system take the “threat” seriously. Something that reliably fools the immune system into believing the vaccine poses a threat, which therefore makes the vaccine work better, would be very, very useful in the future.

  55. Imagine the irony of Democrat vaccine fanboys who want to keep everyone under house arrest until we get our jab certificate and WHO microchip suddenly being asked to take “Putin’s vaccine.” I really hope it works — the cognitive meltdown will be something to behold.

  56. @theMann
    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a "novel" corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19. And this amazing "virus" has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.


    In the meantime, the vaccines being developed are all going to "work" in the sense that they are preventing a disease that doesn't actually exist from recurring. However, and it it really is a big however, every "vaccine" in development will rely upon RNA genetic manipulation, with unforeseen and unforeseeable consequences. suppose a genetically altered "human" mates with another genetically altered "human" and produces offspring with unexpected severe genetic abnormalities.......oops. Not to mention that EVERY SINGLE LAST vaccine of this sort has shown the same results. Protection of the individual from one or two varieties of the illness, a severe worsening of response to other, similar strains of the illness. In every case the cure was literally much worse than the disease.


    So hell yes, get one of those vaccines. The world economy disintegrates at an accelerating pace, totalitarian measure amounting to war crimes are happily, willingly, embraced by entire populations in their fear of an imaginary illness, ( And for those of you who want to just keep arguing this fact, a new appearing illness sickens and kills otherwise healthy people, "covid-19" has yet to kill a single healthy person.), most people rush to embrace "vaccines" that don't work, have severe side effects, contain cells from aborted babies AND heavy metal nano-particles, but yes, you are all on the right track with this.


    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won't kill a single one of you.

    Replies: @Thoughts, @Achmed E. Newman, @Hans, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Muggles

    I’m not one of the morons, so I should be fine, right?

    It ain’t the effects of the COVID I’m worried about, it’s the effects of the Commies.

  57. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    So did the nuclear bomb projects. The really expensive part of the Manhattan Project was the Uranium enrichment. The Soviets used gas turbines developed by captured Germans, which was much, much, much cheaper and faster. The German research into nuclear weapons didn’t amount to much, except for their centrifuge research. The Soviets got all the best centrifuge guys.

    (The US got most of the greatest physicists of the Axis Powers before the war had even begun.)

  58. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    The US is actually ahead *right now*. Elon Musk has just started taking paying customers to the ISS.

    Atlas V, Delta IV Heavy, and Falcon Heavy are all extremely capable rockets. Musk’s Falcon Heavy is also quite cheap for what it does. The regular Falcon 9 is quite cheap and reliable for regular-sized payloads. The Merlin engine is remarkably reliable, cheap, and powerful for its weight. The Raptor engine is remarkably efficient and powerful — and it is the most developed full flow stage combustion engine the world has ever seen. Probably not good enough for real world use yet, but that should only be a matter of time.

  59. @Anon
    No vaccine “works.”

    1. There is no vaccine that stops the infection in 100 percent of cases ... 50 percent would be really good.

    2. Vaccines only target specific variants, so they have to be constantly updated and will always be behind and imperfect.

    3. Vaccines are less effective on certain population groups, including the elderly and the obese, two particularly vulnerable groups for Covid.

    4. Hopefully a lot of people will get one or more Covid vaccine shots, but even with conpulsory vaccines like childhood vaccines, many don’t get them. With Covid you’re going to see a leveling off where people hope to coast in the glide stream of others. And it may be that you need so many boosters that people will tire of the vaccines.

    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff. Which you already know if you’ve ever read the fine print on the thing you signed prior to any vaccine you have received.

    In the end vaccines will help reduce the chances of getting the disease, and treatment regimes and drugs will make recovery safer. (The whole “chronic Covid” thing is still an unknown ... maybe you never really recover.) So the odds that you balance when you decide you want to get out in the world a little more will be more in favor of going out if there are vaccines.

    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @James Speaks, @Chrisnonymous, @jsm, @Mr. Anon

    It would be good if at least part of the population, meaning those with future time orientation, adopted a strategy of really healthy living as a prophylactic against COVID.

    • Agree: Kyle
  60. @Dumbo

    The aggressive strategy from a country eager to declare a victory amid one of the worst outbreaks in the world has been criticized by outside scientists who worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity. China has already authorized one vaccine for use in its military, ahead of definitive data that it is safe and effective.
     
    Chinese and Russian vaccines, bad. But if you are hesitant about being injected with vaccines made by American or European countries, or if you are suspicious of, say, Bill Gates' plans, you're an "anti vaxxer", a "conspiracy theorist" and a "loon". Funny how that works.

    Well, I for one ain't taking none of them. I guess I will take my chances with the virus directly, which at least doesn't contain mercury. ;-) :-P

    Replies: @John Cunningham, @Alexander Turok, @Paul Mendez

    Chinese and Russian vaccines, bad. But if you are hesitant about being injected with vaccines made by American or European countries, or if you are suspicious of, say, Bill Gates’ plans, you’re an “anti vaxxer”, a “conspiracy theorist” and a “loon”.

    Have you considered the hypothesis that maybe it does make sense but you’re just too stupid to understand it?

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Alexander Turok

    As has been pointed out to you before, your frequent resort to name-calling makes you look childish, overly emotional, and well...rather stupid. You'd really be better off just remaining quiet.

    No need to reply, you're the latest addition to my lengthy "commenters to ignore" list.

  61. @Achmed E. Newman

    Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it ...
     
    How much time would you want to let go by before you did? Who says the side-effects of vaccines is short-term? It's great that the Chinese have their own ready-made guinea pigs in the PLA. I'm guessing that in Russia, it would be the same situation as here for the healthcare employees - don't get the shot and you lose your job.

    Though a vaccine will be a great thing for the old and otherwise vulnerable, it will just put off any chance of the sheep seeing the way they've been fooled with this phony crisis. Even if society is let to try to get back to normal, what has been done is to proof-test the idea of LOCKDOWNS and face-diaper wearing as normal things that can be implemented again at the whim of government officials. When's the next one coming? Don't throw out those full-face masks yet that you end up wearing even outside in the sunshine to accessorize.


    .

    PS: In case I get Mr. Godfree Roberts with his graphs with the circles and arrows showing the successes of Chairman Mao, or some of the Russia boosters like Anon-who-still-lives-in-Tennessee-though, I'm not knocking anything in particular about the Chinese or Russians having concocted a vaccine vs. Americans having done the same.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Svigor, @Cloudbuster, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    How much time would you want to let go by before you did?

    I have no plans to take the most-politicized, least-tested vaccine in history, ever.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  62. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    No they aren’t. SpaceX is eating everyone’s lunch, including the Russians’. Yes, our program floundered for many years and the Russian program was old reliable in terms of the RD engines, but that’s just one niche. And that chapter of the story is pretty much closed now.

    And frankly, what we were relying on Russia for isn’t what’s been (rightly) making headlines, like SpaceX’ launch cadence, their work on propulsive landing, reusability, Starship, Starlink, etc.

    That said, Russia has a very respectable space program, and I hope they can do what they have to do to keep it competitive in the rapidly changing launch industry.

    P.S., kinda funny that we relied on those awful Germans to make our first era of space exploration possible, and now we’re relying on one of those awful South Africans to pick up where those awful Germans left off.

    We wrecked both their countries, but we got a space program out of it…

  63. @Hippopotamusdrome
    OT
    "AlgorithmWatch" cancels another racist AI:


    Google apologizes after its Vision AI produced racist results

    In an experiment that became viral on Twitter, AlgorithmWatch showed that Google Vision Cloud, a computer vision service, labeled an image of a dark-skinned individual holding a thermometer “gun” while a similar image with a light-skinned individual was labeled “electronic device”. A subsequent experiment showed that the image of a dark-skinned hand holding a thermometer was labelled “gun” and that the same image with a salmon-colored overlay on the hand was enough for the computer to label it “monocular”.

    In a statement to AlgorithmWatch, Tracy Frey, director of Product Strategy and Operations at Google, wrote that “this result [was] unacceptable. The connection with this outcome and racism is important to recognize

     

    Replies: @Known Fact, @AnotherDad

    He was holding the thermometer sideways

    • LOL: Muggles, Rob McX
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Known Fact

    Also he kept missing the orifice he was supposed to put it into.

  64. The Russia vaccine is likely to work well.

    SJW America doesn’t function well. Congrats to Russia.

    Maurice Hilleman, the greatest doctor that nobody heard of, would have rolled out a vaccine by now.

    https://www.merck.com/stories/doctor-maurice-hilleman-father-of-modern-vaccines/

    Our trump derangement-afflicted establishment is intent to block every vaccine until after the election.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    @DanHessinMD

    And every possible effective treatment.

    Is it true that if, for example HCQ+Zinc+Zith, actually worked, there wouldn't be an Emergency Use Authorization for a vaccine?

  65. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    That is the dirty secret.

    US and Soviets played a game of who could make better use of their captured German scientists. Both sides pretended their successes were the natural result of capitalism or communism.

    Where would the US be without Von Braun?

    He and Shockley are the greats that we aren’t supposed to talk about.

    Shockley changed the world but had to be buried from the public mind for calling BS on liberal lysenko beliefs.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @John Johnson


    Where would the US be without Von Braun?
     
    At about the same level, really.

    The US had already Goddard. It's just that nobody even knew he existed.

    One man doesn't make all that much a difference. Political oomph, in this case, creation of NASA under the nose of the infighting military and while congress was ready to go on holiday does. James Webb's management did it.

    Replies: @El Dato

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @John Johnson

    John, I have a book on the aircraft of WWII. Germans had jet fighter planes and "an uninterceptable bomber", although late in the war. If Hitler had listened to his generals instead of trying to be "the general" WWII might have been fought to a standstill.

  66. @dearieme
    I'm puzzled: what's the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?

    Replies: @Sean, @Matt Buckalew, @Jack D, @dearieme, @Hypnotoad666

    Penis envy. Russians and Steve are the only people on earth that care that America won the most important leg of the space race so decisively that Russia never even made it to the moon. Well I guess hidden figures made blacks care but I don’t know if they still care or if they’ve moved on like everyone else.

  67. anon[106] • Disclaimer says:

    SARS-2 is most definitely a coronavirus. So is the common cold. T-cells that target one coronavirus may target similar ones. Some cold strains have similar spike proteins to SARS-2. Not necessarily complete immunity, but enough to reduce symptoms.

    This is a possible explanation for why some persons don’t get the Coof, as well as why some persons do catch the Coof but have a very mild case.

    Prior exposure to common cold Coronaviruses can confer a degree of immunity to Coof.

    It’s easy to find links from reputable sources on the topic, here’s a couple.

    https://scitechdaily.com/research-shows-exposure-to-common-cold-coronaviruses-can-teach-the-immune-system-to-recognize-sars-cov-2/

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-prior-exposure-common-cold-viruses.html

    So…suppose a little plastic nasal spray bottle of a few different cold viruses is as effective in protection against the Coof with only “common cold” as a side effect? Got to cost less than a vaccine?

    Would Big Pharma even admit this, never mind produce it?

  68. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Altai


    In fairness, Eastern Europe has a long history of having excellent mathematics instruction.
     
    There is an argument to be made that the Manhattan Project is simply a Hungarian high school science fair project that was backed by the US Government.

    Replies: @Matt Buckalew

    Sure but in making that argument you are basically telling everyone you are Hungarian which means you better be able to at least fake being Hungarian nobility or else the status hit you take can’t possibly be worth it.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @Matt Buckalew

    https://twitter.com/gcochran99/status/1164809228336291840
    https://twitter.com/gcochran99/status/1165527973803393024

  69. I’d prefer the focus was on a widely effective treatment, at the prescription or even over-the-counter level. Rather than a vaccine, which is a simplistic magic bullet to some people and anathema to others and is no sure shot in any case. What game is being played when someone declares that life is on hold until a vaccine appears?

    However it happens, we’re going to need an antidote for the severe risk-aversion and fear being stoked for reasons both sincere and otherwise. This no-fun zone is bad enough when you’re 65, but what are we doing to young people and young adults who dearly need activities and social contact?

    • Agree: Travis, Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    @Known Fact

    You are exactly correct. Americans should be more focused on early treatments and preventing the elderly from getting sick. Americans who are most concerned should be getting vitamin D and getting some excessive to keep their bodies strong , lose some weight and reduce your carbs to further reduce your risks of getting hospitalized with CV.

    Replies: @Known Fact

  70. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    It’s almost like once we humiliated the Russians by getting to moon first we realized that space exploration is just nerd porn and moved on to different things.

    What’s with the boomer tendency to build up basket case countries like Iran and Russia as anything like peer competitors with the US. If TFW no get pussy is so bad that you want to see America defeated your only bet is China.

  71. anon[106] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    @Anon

    Two three times, you paint a picture of a very bleak future. Remember concerts and sports are also part of the scholastic experience, not just professional entertainment.

    Replies: @anon

    “College” is gonna be very different this year, not just moving to online but in other ways. The Big 10 schools have agreed to pool online access to classes, so someone at U Michigan can take an online course at Ohio State and get transcript credit. That’s pretty good thinking, but it leads towards consolidation; who needs all those different campuses full of shiny classrooms, eh?

    Professional sports and professional entertainment have only been a part of the “scholastic experience” for the last 50 – 80 years. Get in a time machine and go back 100 years; sports then would look a whole lot more like modern intramural sports, and the concerts of those days were put on by the student body and some of the faculty.

    College as 4 – 5 years of nonstop entertainment is really a late 20th century thing. Perhaps it is a luxury that we cannot afford anymore. Most people don’t need to go to college anyway.

    Item: The Big 10 has canceled its football season. We’ll see what other conferences do, but this will put a big hit on college town economies, possibly affect big donors, etc. and will also have ripple effects into the NFL. Maybe there’s a better use for intercollegiate athletics than as de-facto minor-league feeder to the pros?

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @anon

    OneZeroSix, my grand daughter is a sophmore at THE Ohio State. Wow, no football means a huge loss for local businesses. I was in Columbus on Michigan or Michigan State weekend. Hotels and motels sold out in a fifty mile radius. Wait times at restaurants and bars 2 to 3 hours! But, there are other college towns which will suffer too. Kent State, Bowling Green, The University of Ohio and Akron support football. And in NYS the nearby towns of Genesso, Alfred, Cortland and Brockport count on the student body to support local restaurants and stores. Huge blow to small businesses.

    Replies: @anon, @Jim Don Bob, @The Wild Geese Howard

  72. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.

    Apparently the new vaccine is called “Sputnik”. I kid you not.

    Putin can try to cover himself with the glory of the former Soviet Union but Russia today is a pale shadow of the Soviet Union. However, it resembles the Soviet Union in that Russian government leaders have a higher tolerance for killing civilians than Western leaders (see Flight MH17). Sure you can shortcut the approval process and give millions of people an unproven vaccine that may be ineffective or may have unknown side effects, but is it a good idea? Even if it turns out fine, there is a reason why we don’t do this in the West.

    • Agree: notsaying
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, the USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flt 665 in 1988, killing all 290 passengers. It was a case of mistaken identity. Did the Russians knowingly shoot down a passenger plane?

    Replies: @Muggles

  73. @JohnPlywood
    @Anonymous

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    The legitimate UFO phenomenon (not misidentified stars or regular craft) is also likely partially related German NS expatriates and their descendants, in the Americas.

    Replies: @Querc, @John Johnson, @Jack D

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    Rocketry was certainly developed by the Germans along with modern artillery tactics. The Brits had the first tank but the Germans built their army around it.

    Most gun development however comes from the US. A lot of auto-loading ideas came from a single person (John Browning).

    US born Hiram Maxim invented the machine gun after overhearing someone joke at a party that the way to get rich is to invent something that allows Europeans to cut each other down.

    The MG-42 however was certainly an impressive improvement over the Maxim and the design lives on to this day.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @John Johnson

    John Browning contributed countless new ideas to the gun world, and Maxim's suppressed machine gun was revolutionary.

    Germans have their own contributions, including:

    High capacity polymer-frame handguns, the basis for most modern pistols (starting with the HK VP70 ca. early 1970ies)

    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)

    Assault rifles, beginning with the Sturmgewehr-44 (whose design and cartridge was the basis for the Soviet AK and 7.62x39mm)


    Invention of both the sub machine gun and machine pistol concepts, hugely influential to Eastern European armaments

    The 9x19mm, the most common handgun cartridge still in use in the 21st century

    The rotating bolt action, as seen in the AR-15, Galil, and other military assault rifles


    ...to name a few.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @The Wild Geese Howard

  74. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*.

    Does anyone care?

    I never understood why so many in the US cared about the space race when we are massively in debt trying to fund egalitarian fiction. Maybe we question funding lies before putting more rockets in space.

    I can imagine a future dystopia where we put a man on mars and then the US collapses into anarchy upon his return.

    Then a Con Inc type would get teary eyed and wave a flag before being eaten by a roving cannibal gang.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @John Johnson

    The Space Race had four benefits:

    1. Propaganda. The USSR was using their initial leads as proof that Communism was better. Beating them to the Moon ended that. Far better to spend the money on rockets when only a few died than spend the money on a deadly war.

    2. Spending wars. The Space Race, along with the Arms Race, were wars of attrition. See which side can afford to burn a lot if money. Sort of like the potlatch of the NW tribes— see who can toss away the most possessions. Again, better than spending the money on the war in Vietnam for example.

    3. Economic boost. Just the fact that a lot of money was being spent was good for the economy. One famous scientist called it “building pyramids”. Good for the economy even if the money is wasted.

    4, Technology. Here is the best benefit. It turns out the microcomputer technology developed as part of the Space Race was the foundation of the computer technology we have enjoyed these past few decades. Each dollar spent on the Space Race wound up producing many dollars of economic boost in later decades due to technological advances.

    Replies: @Yngvar

  75. Everyone is overthinking this. You could inject everyone with a common cold coronavirus and it would work, although it would give some people the common cold.

    Kids are probably immune because they all got 10 common colds in the last year.

    Just by stimulating the immune system in the right way, you will cut mortality dramatically.

  76. A vaccine, for a normally rapidly mutating virus, which is already burning itself out, and for which we already have an established and virtually free drug — and the vaccine is coming from the country which the worst mask-spotters and media liars believe to be the devil.
    Le epic troll.
    Also happening today, Michael Flynn’s ordeal will probably be finally ended, Vice reports Indian caste discrimination is as common as Indian migration, and Norwegians have found an ancient rock painting.
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3azjp5/silicon-valley-has-a-caste-discrimination-problem

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @J.Ross


    “It’s getting worse,” Maya said. “Especially with a right-wing government in both India and the U.S., casteist supremacists have gotten emboldened.”
     
    What the hell does Trump have to do with this?
  77. This report is rather incomplete because it doesn’t mention that one of Putin’s daughters has been vaccinated with the new vaccine, or that it is a two-stage vaccine. I wonder if one of Trump’s daughters would like to come forward and try it!

    You will get better reports on Sputnik News, Russia Today, Tass, or Al Jazeera.

    The Russians are calling this the Sputnik vaccine as a reference to their lead in space in the 1960s. I hope for the sake of everybody that this vaccine is safe and effective but obviously I have no knowledge of whether it will work.

  78. @dearieme
    I'm puzzled: what's the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?

    Replies: @Sean, @Matt Buckalew, @Jack D, @dearieme, @Hypnotoad666

    Putin is a risk taker (with other people’s lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.

    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin. The Soviet Union was obsessed with being 1st or claiming to be first. Remember that Putin orchestrated a massive doping and drug test cheating scheme so that Russia could win the most Olympic medals at Sochi. The Soviets dropped their moon program like a hot kartoshka the minute they lost the space race – if they couldn’t be first, what was the point of spending billions to visit a worthless rock? Russians are deeply insecure that they are inferior to the West and are always looking for confirmation that they are not inferior, they are actually better.

    (Americans love winners too – see Vince Lombardi, but in a somewhat different way, that doesn’t come from a place of deep insecurity. Still this obsession with winning made the Cold War a match made in heaven and kept both sides on their toes. Sure there was a lot of waste but the competition also drove both sides to some might feats. Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn’t have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother’s milk. Ask yourself “what would Brezhnev do?” and you’ll get the explanation to most of Putin’s actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Jack D

    "Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader."
    Cause you'd rather have a less sober and more pliant to US supremacy puppet president like Yeltsin?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn’t have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)
     
    Classic JackD. Well done Jack!

    BTW, even though things would definitely have gotten worse with social media, i have often had this same thought: If the Cold War was still going on, we simply could not have--or at minimum the elites encouraging--the level feminine silliness and hysteria that is driving things now.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Americans love winners too – see Vince Lombardi...
     
    Americans outside Wisconsin (and the UP) did not love Lombardi. At least until he retired-- or died, whichever came first. Cf. # 12:

    Why Is Baseball So Much Better Than Football?

    FWIW, the Caped Crusader and the Boy Wonder had a policy of signing autographs with their left hands, so they wouldn't be linked to Bruce and Dick. Faux Four acts usually make sure that their Paul plays a lefty bass-- lucky for them it's a bass-- but how many comic-con Batmans know to do this?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Hhsiii

    , @Svigor
    @Jack D


    Putin is a risk taker (with other people’s lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.
     
    Yeah Bush and Hussein didn't rack up huge death tolls with their foreign adventurism, or anything. In contrast, they took every opportunity to put their lives at risk. Russia's record in this century of not breaking countries in Israel's neighborhood down to rubble, not murdering people wholesale, and not putting the lives of his military at risk is far better than America's.

    But I guess boomer cuckservatives really eat up this "never mind the (((regime))) that's been destroying America for the last 60 years, pay attention to China and Russia, goy" schtick. Even on strictly cuckservative grounds you'd think cuckservatives would have so much to worry about DOMESTICALLY from the soft-totalitarian regime choking the life out of our republic, but nope, they fall for this shit every time.

    Mostly because they're lazy cowards and know they can rail against foreign countries without having to actually do anything.


    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin.
     
    Who cares? I mean other than boomer cuckservatives and cat ladies. I mean, like what is America shooting for? Participation trophies for everyone?

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother’s milk. Ask yourself “what would Brezhnev do?” and you’ll get the explanation to most of Putin’s actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.
     
    Yeah, if only he'd done the right thing and turned Russia over to (((his betters))). Russia could become (((Wiemar Russia))) in no time.
  79. @Anon
    No vaccine “works.”

    1. There is no vaccine that stops the infection in 100 percent of cases ... 50 percent would be really good.

    2. Vaccines only target specific variants, so they have to be constantly updated and will always be behind and imperfect.

    3. Vaccines are less effective on certain population groups, including the elderly and the obese, two particularly vulnerable groups for Covid.

    4. Hopefully a lot of people will get one or more Covid vaccine shots, but even with conpulsory vaccines like childhood vaccines, many don’t get them. With Covid you’re going to see a leveling off where people hope to coast in the glide stream of others. And it may be that you need so many boosters that people will tire of the vaccines.

    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff. Which you already know if you’ve ever read the fine print on the thing you signed prior to any vaccine you have received.

    In the end vaccines will help reduce the chances of getting the disease, and treatment regimes and drugs will make recovery safer. (The whole “chronic Covid” thing is still an unknown ... maybe you never really recover.) So the odds that you balance when you decide you want to get out in the world a little more will be more in favor of going out if there are vaccines.

    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @James Speaks, @Chrisnonymous, @jsm, @Mr. Anon

    the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports

    That’s insane.

    People just need to go back their regular lives. If you’re elderly or diabetic, you know what to do–socially distance, stay home, wear masks, take Vitamin D, thank God for a good life, and get your affairs in order. If you’re pre-diabetic or obese or out of shape, it’s own you to change your risk profile.

    A highly cynical person might say that this disease seems custom-made to target the people who are the highest burden on our healthcare system.

    Anyhow, young people who are economically productive shouldn’t organize their lives around the elderly and sick.

    • Agree: Mark G., vhrm, Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @anon
    @Chrisnonymous

    One fly in the ointment though; If you look at the wealth distribution by age, most of the wealth is weighted towards baby boomers, youngest of whom are 56 and above now. With them taken out, we will have an economy the size of of Mexico or Brazil but not pre-Covid USA.

  80. @JohnPlywood

    But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    No they didn't.

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia's space program.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-forgotten-rocketeers-german-scientists-in-the-soviet-union-1945-1959/

    Replies: @International Jew, @Anonymous, @Bardon Kaldian, @Tom-in-VA, @siberiancat, @S. Anonyia

    >>It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.

    Not really. Read the Boris Chertok’s memoirs about the Soviet Space program. They have been translated into English

    The Russians took a very unusual strategy. They got a less prominent part of the German team. They got everything ready for mass production of V2, but never adopted it as a weapon, it only used as a prototype to establish the scientific-industrial partnerships.
    They also put an isolated German team on the development of a next-generation rocket and did not use the result. An indigenous design from Korolev was chosen.

    You have to keep in mind, Russia had her own weapon research in rocketry before the war started. They had aircraft-launched rockets and MRLs before anyone else.

    • Replies: @HunInTheSun
    @siberiancat

    The combustion chamber design that the Helmut Groettrup team ("their Germans") produced for the Soviets was incorporated into the Korolev R-7 launcher which was their first deployed ICBM and formed the basis for the Soyuz family which remains in service to this day. The Soviets and now the Russians have spent decades glossing over the fact that they have never successfully developed a man-rated launcher without German assistance.

  81. @Achmed E. Newman

    Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it ...
     
    How much time would you want to let go by before you did? Who says the side-effects of vaccines is short-term? It's great that the Chinese have their own ready-made guinea pigs in the PLA. I'm guessing that in Russia, it would be the same situation as here for the healthcare employees - don't get the shot and you lose your job.

    Though a vaccine will be a great thing for the old and otherwise vulnerable, it will just put off any chance of the sheep seeing the way they've been fooled with this phony crisis. Even if society is let to try to get back to normal, what has been done is to proof-test the idea of LOCKDOWNS and face-diaper wearing as normal things that can be implemented again at the whim of government officials. When's the next one coming? Don't throw out those full-face masks yet that you end up wearing even outside in the sunshine to accessorize.


    .

    PS: In case I get Mr. Godfree Roberts with his graphs with the circles and arrows showing the successes of Chairman Mao, or some of the Russia boosters like Anon-who-still-lives-in-Tennessee-though, I'm not knocking anything in particular about the Chinese or Russians having concocted a vaccine vs. Americans having done the same.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Svigor, @Cloudbuster, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    I really don’t get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don’t think that it is) it’s a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I’ve read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn’t see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It’s not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next – take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @jsm
    @Jack D

    It's not a "minor imposition" when it facilitates thugs to riot, steal, rob and burn with impunity, knowing their mandated mask will make it harder to identify and prosecute them.

    Besides the point that it makes it harder to breathe during exercise (impacting health) and all the face touching taking it on and off to breathe just in normal activity increases likelihood of catching cold and flu viruses that are spread by touching the face.

    Replies: @HA

    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks."

    Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks. You load it up with your warm, moist, bacteria- laden breath and the bacteria have a reproductive orgy all day long, especially as your diaper marinates and ferments in your warm car.

    Facediapers are disease vectors because Diaper-Americans obsessively fondle and adjust their bacteria-infested diapers.

    Ban them NOW and impose stiff financial penalties on violators.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D


    I really don’t get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don’t think that it is) it’s a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I’ve read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn’t see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It’s not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that.
     
    Should the government compel people to wear masks every winter? Every winter, people catch and spread respiratory viruses which kill thousands of people. This happens every year - just look at the huge spike in deaths in January and February.

    Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don't get wet, and to wear a coat and a scarf so you don't get cold? Compel you to take your vitamins? All of these things have an effect on your health, which - lest we forget - could lead to you catching the flu and spreading it to someone's grandma who then dies from it.

    And by the way, the phrase "It’s not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that." is hardly reassuring. They are always trying to take away our guns.

    You know why politicians object to slippery-slope arguments? Because they are right.
    , @Old Prude
    @Jack D

    Wearing a mask is a symbol that the media and politicians can tell people to do and say and believe stupid pointless undignified and degrading things, and they can make people comply. Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.

    , @Cloudbuster
    @Jack D

    I’ve read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn’t see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere.

    You missed it. It's right here:

    "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    The Constitution was never intended to be an exhaustive listing of all human rights, as the authors considered that unfeasible. Instead the document, properly read, is a limitation on government power. The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Kratoklastes

    , @Known Fact
    @Jack D

    The objection to masks is simple: If you do happen to believe the COVID threat or the lockdown response is being seriously oversold, then widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease. There are no other handy compelling visuals -- no bodies in the street, no lines outside hospitals, no smoking crematoriums, no sobbing relatives -- for the media or public officials to sell the story.

    Of course wearing a mask, for quick durations at least, is no big deal in crowded situations. But seeing everyone walking around with them creates a sense of submission, compliance and depersonalization. Plus there are numerous studies and explanations as to why a mask might not help or might even harm, why they might work for some cultures but noth others, and these seem to get buried, as with anything else that doesn't fit the reigning narrative.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Paleo Liberal
    @Jack D

    Seriously.

    I grew up hearing the hardships family and friends endured in WW I, WW II, Korea, and Vietnam. I later learned of the hardships my family endured in earlier wars. My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.

    And many current Americans are too wimpy to wear a mask when out in public????

    And they boast about it? Supposedly increasing the risk of themselves and others to disease is a greater blow for freedom than my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @anon
    @Jack D

    I really don’t get the objection to masks

    People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica. Yeah, it's annoying to mask up all day, and they do need to be replaced or washed. It's not quite the same as being ordered to sit through 5 hour hate sessions, though. My state allows face shields as a substitute, not all are like that I know. I've thought about getting the welding mask out, but...it's kinda hard to see through the window, by design. So...nah.

    Plus there is this:
    “Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.”

    Some get oppressed by having to hide part of their face because reasons. Also funny, because it's totally possible to flirt over a mask with eyes alone. Middle Eastern women in the Gulf states do it all the time.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    If you have the time, Jack (no more than 5 minutes, unless you get into the comments), I ask you to read unz-writer C.J.Hopkins' latest excellent article - "Invasion of the New Normals" - and get back to me. I've had the same thoughts as him, but he puts it all more eloquently.

    Please write back if you read it, as I'd really like to know what you think. I promise he'd not a Godfree Roberts-style nutcase, and he lives in Germany, so it's not like he's a Libertarian freak or something.

    As to your reading of the Bill of Rights, I suggest Amendment X - it's one sentence long. The Constitution does not deign to elucidate all the freedoms Americans are supposed to have. The idea is to set limits on the Federal Government. That's not a factor in much of this COVID nonsense, which is one slight silver lining I see. At least people can take the problems up with their own State/local govs.

    Oh, speaking of spitting on the sidewalk, you'll love this one, Jack, or maybe not: After going into the grocery store a few weeks ago after being pissed at my wife for some of this hysteria, I didn't wear a mask, I went the wrong way through the aisles (when possible), and I ignored the stupid stickers on the floor. I had almost calmed down after leaving the store, but I did hawk one big loogie onto the sticker on the asphalt right outside the door. I felt a lot better after that!

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Here, for those who won't take the time:


    And, make no mistake, that is exactly what the “New Normal” movement intends to do. “New Normalism” is a classic totalitarian movement (albeit with a pathological twist), and it is the goal of every totalitarian movement to radically, utterly transform society, to remake the world in its monstrous image.

    That is what totalitarianism is, this desire to establish complete control over everything and everyone, every thought, emotion, and human interaction. The character of its ideology changes (i.e., Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, etc.), but this desire for complete control over people, over society, and ultimately life itself, is the essence of totalitarianism … and what has taken over the minds of the New Normals.

    In the New Normal society they want to establish, as in every totalitarian society, fear and conformity will be pervasive. Their ideology is a pathologized ideology (as opposed to, say, the racialized ideology of the Nazis), so its symbology will be pathological. Fear of disease, infection, and death, and obsessive attention to matters of health will dominate every aspect of life. Paranoid propaganda and ideological conditioning will be ubiquitous and constant.

    Everyone will be forced to wear medical masks to maintain a constant level of fear and an omnipresent atmosphere of sickness and death, as if the world were one big infectious disease ward. Everyone will wear these masks at all times, at work, at home, in their cars, everywhere. Anyone who fails or refuses to do so will be deemed “a threat to public health,” and beaten and arrested by the police or the military, or swarmed by mobs of New Normal vigilantes.

     

    [SNIP]

    The threat of “infection” will be used to justify increasingly insane and authoritarian edicts, compulsory demonstration-of-fealty rituals, and eventually the elimination of all forms of dissent. Just as the Nazis believed they were waging a war against the “subhuman races,” the New Normals will be waging a war on “disease,” and on anyone who “endangers the public health” by challenging their ideological narrative. Like every other totalitarian movement, in the end, they will do whatever is necessary to purify society of “degenerate influences” (i.e., anyone who questions or disagrees with them, or who refuses to obey their every command).
     
    [SNIP]


    Despite this increasing totalitarianization and pathologization of virtually everything, the New Normals will carry on with their lives as if everything were … well, completely normal. They will go out to restaurants and the movies in their masks. They will work, eat, and sleep in their masks. Families will go on holiday in their masks, or in their “Personal Protective Upper-Body Bubble-Wear.” They will arrive at the airport eight hours early, stand in their little color-coded boxes, and then follow the arrows on the floor to the “health officials” in the hazmat suits, who will take their temperature through their foreheads and shove ten-inch swabs into their sinus cavities.

     
    , @obwandiyag
    @Jack D

    You really stirred up a nest of boobs there.

    Only lunkhead assholes get all bent out of a shape over wearing a mask.

    What if they had to work for a living? Oh, heaven forfend!

    , @the one they call Desanex
    @Jack D

    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble? Would you want to cover your good-looking face with a mask? Would you want young, healthy, good-looking members of the opposite sex to cover their faces?

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Svigor, @ATBOTL

    , @utu
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks." - American cornucopia of arguments against masks in responses to your comments.

    #66 jsm: Argument form the totalitarian state position that masks make it difficult to identify and prosecute perpetrators.

    #74 Je Suis Omar Mateen: Teenagae boy objection that mask being yucky: "Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks."

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: "Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet"

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: "Wearing a mask is a symbol..." and homophobic argument: "Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded."

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: "The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?"

    #88 Known Fact: Psychological warfare argument: "widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease."

    #96 anon[239]:. Stating the obvious (tautological) argument: "People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica."

    101 Achmed E. Newman: : Too long to read by the well known bore argument.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon

    , @Jon
    @Jack D

    The people who oppose masks are probably right that, in retrospect, this virus wasn't that dangerous and the whole world overreacted. But where they seem to lose the plot is that a minor imposition like a mask is the exact right kind of response to a minor health threat like this. The lockdown/SIP rules and the push for an untested vaccine and talk of travel permits, these are the overreactions that are a serious infringement on our rights. The mask is just an updated version of "no shoes, no shirt, no sevice."

    , @anon
    @Jack D

    I just thought of the most obvious reason of all for mask-rage; displacement. Object displacement. There's a lot to be anxious / angry about now, from rioting Only Black Lives Matter / Antifa to corrupt, crave politicians to a huge uncertainty about SARS-2.

    None of this is under sort of control by the average person. But getting all worked up and angry about masks - that is doable. Displace the free-floating anxiety and anger onto a simple public health measure. Like getting mad at work and holding it in, only to yell at your wife / husband / kids / dog.

    Yeah, I know, Siggie Freud, but as with projection he was just noting what was right in front of him.

  82. @theMann
    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a "novel" corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19. And this amazing "virus" has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.


    In the meantime, the vaccines being developed are all going to "work" in the sense that they are preventing a disease that doesn't actually exist from recurring. However, and it it really is a big however, every "vaccine" in development will rely upon RNA genetic manipulation, with unforeseen and unforeseeable consequences. suppose a genetically altered "human" mates with another genetically altered "human" and produces offspring with unexpected severe genetic abnormalities.......oops. Not to mention that EVERY SINGLE LAST vaccine of this sort has shown the same results. Protection of the individual from one or two varieties of the illness, a severe worsening of response to other, similar strains of the illness. In every case the cure was literally much worse than the disease.


    So hell yes, get one of those vaccines. The world economy disintegrates at an accelerating pace, totalitarian measure amounting to war crimes are happily, willingly, embraced by entire populations in their fear of an imaginary illness, ( And for those of you who want to just keep arguing this fact, a new appearing illness sickens and kills otherwise healthy people, "covid-19" has yet to kill a single healthy person.), most people rush to embrace "vaccines" that don't work, have severe side effects, contain cells from aborted babies AND heavy metal nano-particles, but yes, you are all on the right track with this.


    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won't kill a single one of you.

    Replies: @Thoughts, @Achmed E. Newman, @Hans, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Muggles

    Mann, it’s important to think of Gates’ new vaccine as software.

  83. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

  84. @Anon
    No vaccine “works.”

    1. There is no vaccine that stops the infection in 100 percent of cases ... 50 percent would be really good.

    2. Vaccines only target specific variants, so they have to be constantly updated and will always be behind and imperfect.

    3. Vaccines are less effective on certain population groups, including the elderly and the obese, two particularly vulnerable groups for Covid.

    4. Hopefully a lot of people will get one or more Covid vaccine shots, but even with conpulsory vaccines like childhood vaccines, many don’t get them. With Covid you’re going to see a leveling off where people hope to coast in the glide stream of others. And it may be that you need so many boosters that people will tire of the vaccines.

    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff. Which you already know if you’ve ever read the fine print on the thing you signed prior to any vaccine you have received.

    In the end vaccines will help reduce the chances of getting the disease, and treatment regimes and drugs will make recovery safer. (The whole “chronic Covid” thing is still an unknown ... maybe you never really recover.) So the odds that you balance when you decide you want to get out in the world a little more will be more in favor of going out if there are vaccines.

    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @James Speaks, @Chrisnonymous, @jsm, @Mr. Anon

    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff.

    I would like to know, and list some specific examples, please, just who these “crazy antivaxxers” are who should be “understandably deplatformed.”

    Because all the ones I’ve read who’ve been called “crazy antivaxxers,” when I actually read / listened to what they said, were making the point that no vaccine is completely safe and there are risk -benefit tradeoffs (and that some of the risks of some vaccines far outweigh the benefits in general, or for specific populations in particular.)

    So WHO are you talking about?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @jsm

    It is a bit like the prisoners dilemma.

    Do you refuse the vaccine because of the infinitesimal possibility that it might kill you, or do you take the vaccine for the benefits of the whole human community, which you happen to hate?

    Replies: @utu

  85. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    It’s not a “minor imposition” when it facilitates thugs to riot, steal, rob and burn with impunity, knowing their mandated mask will make it harder to identify and prosecute them.

    Besides the point that it makes it harder to breathe during exercise (impacting health) and all the face touching taking it on and off to breathe just in normal activity increases likelihood of catching cold and flu viruses that are spread by touching the face.

    • Replies: @HA
    @jsm

    "Besides the point that...[wearing face masks]... and all the face touching taking it on and off to breathe just in normal activity increases likelihood of catching cold and flu viruses that are spread by touching the face."

    If that were true, then places where more people wear masks would see more death from COVID, all other things being equal. The data so far -- while far from crystal clear -- indicate that you're wrong.

    The same lame excuses were also used to discredit seat belts. They're uncomfortable, they sometimes trap you, they might give you a false sense of security that leads to riskier behavior, etc. All of that may well be true to some extent (especially in the case of older and less safer cars, for which being thrown clear of an accident is more likely to be the less lethal option), but it doesn't change the fact that when everything is added up and totaled, seat belts are more likely to help than harm, and those who wear them consistently are -- in general, if not in every instance -- less likely to die in traffic than those who disregard them.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  86. @Anon
    No vaccine “works.”

    1. There is no vaccine that stops the infection in 100 percent of cases ... 50 percent would be really good.

    2. Vaccines only target specific variants, so they have to be constantly updated and will always be behind and imperfect.

    3. Vaccines are less effective on certain population groups, including the elderly and the obese, two particularly vulnerable groups for Covid.

    4. Hopefully a lot of people will get one or more Covid vaccine shots, but even with conpulsory vaccines like childhood vaccines, many don’t get them. With Covid you’re going to see a leveling off where people hope to coast in the glide stream of others. And it may be that you need so many boosters that people will tire of the vaccines.

    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff. Which you already know if you’ve ever read the fine print on the thing you signed prior to any vaccine you have received.

    In the end vaccines will help reduce the chances of getting the disease, and treatment regimes and drugs will make recovery safer. (The whole “chronic Covid” thing is still an unknown ... maybe you never really recover.) So the odds that you balance when you decide you want to get out in the world a little more will be more in favor of going out if there are vaccines.

    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @James Speaks, @Chrisnonymous, @jsm, @Mr. Anon

    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.

    This now routinely said. And clearly there are powerful interests that are promoting this – those interests that want, for whatever reason, a society broken down into isolated, atomized, mutually mistrustful loners.

    Who says everything has to change? Who says we can’t go back to normal? The Spanish Influenza has been estimated to have killed 0.63% of the population of America. When it was over, America went right back to normal. Far from being a nation of anti-social shut-ins, the subsequent decade was known as “The Roaring Twenties”.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Mr. Anon


    The Spanish Influenza has been estimated to have killed 0.63% of the population of America. When it was over, America went right back to normal.
     
    I’d like a detailed, informed take on this. To what degree can Covid be compared to the Spanish flu? I was under the impression that the Spanish flu was not that well understood: In recent memory they were digging up graveyards in the Arctic to try to get samples of it for sequencing, because they didn’t really know what it was. They probably do by now, but test tube studies in Level 4 biosafety labs can only tell you so much.

    On the other hand I’ve read some preliminary comments on Covid that make it sound like it’s not going to fade away for decades (because of its “novelty,” apparently an epidemiological term of art), and that there may be permanent side effects that may cause an attitude adjustment among young people, once things are fully understood, since young people would have the most to fear from chronic Covid problems, if they’re real.

    Replies: @HA

  87. This is literally the plot of I Am Legend.

  88. @Achmed E. Newman

    Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it ...
     
    How much time would you want to let go by before you did? Who says the side-effects of vaccines is short-term? It's great that the Chinese have their own ready-made guinea pigs in the PLA. I'm guessing that in Russia, it would be the same situation as here for the healthcare employees - don't get the shot and you lose your job.

    Though a vaccine will be a great thing for the old and otherwise vulnerable, it will just put off any chance of the sheep seeing the way they've been fooled with this phony crisis. Even if society is let to try to get back to normal, what has been done is to proof-test the idea of LOCKDOWNS and face-diaper wearing as normal things that can be implemented again at the whim of government officials. When's the next one coming? Don't throw out those full-face masks yet that you end up wearing even outside in the sunshine to accessorize.


    .

    PS: In case I get Mr. Godfree Roberts with his graphs with the circles and arrows showing the successes of Chairman Mao, or some of the Russia boosters like Anon-who-still-lives-in-Tennessee-though, I'm not knocking anything in particular about the Chinese or Russians having concocted a vaccine vs. Americans having done the same.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Svigor, @Cloudbuster, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    Perhaps we can use this as an excuse not take the vaccine, if it ever becomes mandated. How do we know that hasn’t got some of that Ruski-vax in it? And everything that is Russian is bad – Nancy Pelosi and Eric Swalwell told me – the Russians are trying to hack our immune system!

    I remember it was just a few years ago – during the Obama-care debate, not that long ago – that many, many liberals were mistrustful of big-pharma. Those evil drug companies were – well, demanding that they get paid for the products they sold. They were price-gougers, who profited off the suffering of people. Now all of a sudden, those same companies (many of them), who also manufacture vaccines, are “front-line heroes” (and very diverse too!) bravely battling the ‘Rona-scourge.

    I also remember when liberals mistrusted weapons manufacturers (which we now euphemistically call “the defence industry”) – they had no trouble then believing that the MIC would promote wars in order to sell weapons and profit off of them. So why do they imagine that chemical companies (because that’s what pharmaceutical companies are) are any different? Why wouldn’t they promote disease and epidemic in order to sell drugs and vaccines and profit off of them?

    Of course, liberals now don’t seem to have any problem with the MIC, or the Pentagon, or the Clandestine agencies. In fact, if you even question the CIA or the FBI – well, you are obviously just a russian stooge – one of Putin’s useful idiots. And I guess they made their peace with big pharma too. Hell, if Phillip Morris and R.J. Reynolds had simply bothered to stuff money into DNC affilliated PACs, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer would be holding their press conferences with a cigarette dangling from their lips and exhorting the public to “Light Up America!”

  89. I hope it kills or maims all the early volunteers.

    Let’s clear out the sub 85 IQ mouthbreathers and ballless eunuchs who either fell for this hoax or lack the sac to say NO to facediapers and antisocial DSM distancing.

    Get Out Live Life!

  90. I see reports that Putin’s daughter has been given it.

    • Replies: @adreadline
    @Bill Jones

    For some reason, this reminds me of the Brit politician who gave his little daughter a burger in public while the mad cow thing was going on decades ago.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  91. Russia was smart to jump the gun on this BS.

    Fake vaccine for a virus that didnt have any serious effect on 99.9% of the population and killed mostly people older than 70 with 2+ severe health problems.

    So what can the Western government handlers do now? Admit its all BS or tell everyone to take the Russian vaccine to “solve” the “problem”?

    4D Putin.

    Sweden, Belarus, even England now has shown. End most of the BS, let everyone go the pub, beach, restaurants, shopping. Virus disappears very quickly as the people who are really unhealthy/old get it and die. Everyone else is unaffected.

    Then its herd immunity.

  92. I’m no expert in any way (to understate), but from skimming news stories about this:

    Usually in vaccine development there are 3 phases of trials, before approval.*

    What’s happening with “Gam-COVID-Vac” – is they had combined and fast-track phase 1 and 2 trials, and then they approved the vaccine early before phase 3 trial.

    So they have approved it before starting phase 3 trial, while in the other countries of the world they are waiting for a phase 3 trial before approving vaccine. That seems to be the main difference between the situation of the accelerated vaccine deployment in Russia and in America.

    Obviously, there must be costs and benefits of approving vaccine before the phase 3 trial has begun, instead of waiting until it is complete like other countries. But it will be considered an emergency situation, as a second wave and another lockdown would be very economically damaging. So early deployment of the vaccine has potential to be a brilliant decision.

    Whether it is correct or not is area of controversial discussion currently in Russia – e.g. there was a open letter from pharmeceutical industry against it yesterday. ( https://www.rbc.ru/society/10/08/2020/5f3120959a79472536bda2db ).

    *

    Clinical development is a three-phase process. During Phase I, small groups of people receive the trial vaccine. In Phase II, the clinical study is expanded and vaccine is given to people who have characteristics (such as age and physical health) similar to those for whom the new vaccine is intended. In Phase III, the vaccine is given to thousands of people and tested for efficacy and safety.

    Many vaccines undergo Phase IV formal, ongoing studies after the vaccine is approved and licensed.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html

  93. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    “I really don’t get the objection to masks.”

    Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks. You load it up with your warm, moist, bacteria- laden breath and the bacteria have a reproductive orgy all day long, especially as your diaper marinates and ferments in your warm car.

    Facediapers are disease vectors because Diaper-Americans obsessively fondle and adjust their bacteria-infested diapers.

    Ban them NOW and impose stiff financial penalties on violators.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Worse than bacteria is the fact that you breathe in less oxygen. And you breathe back in the carbon dioxide you just expelled. Do that for a leisurely walk of several city blocks and you’ll be seriously oxygen depleted and your blood will be over loaded with carbon dioxide.

  94. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    I really don’t get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don’t think that it is) it’s a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I’ve read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn’t see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It’s not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that.

    Should the government compel people to wear masks every winter? Every winter, people catch and spread respiratory viruses which kill thousands of people. This happens every year – just look at the huge spike in deaths in January and February.

    Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet, and to wear a coat and a scarf so you don’t get cold? Compel you to take your vitamins? All of these things have an effect on your health, which – lest we forget – could lead to you catching the flu and spreading it to someone’s grandma who then dies from it.

    And by the way, the phrase “It’s not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that.” is hardly reassuring. They are always trying to take away our guns.

    You know why politicians object to slippery-slope arguments? Because they are right.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  95. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    Wearing a mask is a symbol that the media and politicians can tell people to do and say and believe stupid pointless undignified and degrading things, and they can make people comply. Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  96. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    I’ve read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn’t see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere.

    You missed it. It’s right here:

    “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

    The Constitution was never intended to be an exhaustive listing of all human rights, as the authors considered that unfeasible. Instead the document, properly read, is a limitation on government power. The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Cloudbuster

    Agree. It's a big chunk of any useful liberal constitution to explain where the state's power towards citizens is limited.

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Cloudbuster

    Although I hit 'Agree', the obvious caveat is that once the centralist scumbag Hamilton got the Elastic Clause included, he didn't have to give a shit about the Bill of Rights.

    Best thing that happened to that prick was shortly after the smug prick tried to 'zinger' Aaron Burr. (The fact that 95% of the historically-ignorant 21st-century US now thinks Hamilton was a mulatto bisexual is icing on the cake for me - it's why I don't specifically object to "Hamilton", instead viewing it as part of the tsunami of cultural bilge being spewed out by US's degenerate 'culture')

  97. @International Jew
    @ic1000

    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself? That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren't they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Granted, getting vaccinated means you get exposed to (dead) wuflu as a certainty, and not getting vaccinated you can hope you just won't get exposed at all. But sooner or later we'll all get exposed, and frankly this social distancing is starting to feel like a shitty kind of life.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Peter Lund, @El Dato, @res

    That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren’t they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    It cannot but the principle is that the vaccine teaches your immune system something about the live virus, by presenting a recognizable part (a dead virus, or a part of the envelope).

    This is a bit of a complex procedure. What can go wrong:

    – Your immune system doesn’t care and doesn’t learn
    – Your immune system learns but forgets quickly
    – Your immune system learns but learns the wrong thing (in bad cases, it starts attacking some other part of your body, which may become apparent only much later; this may depend heavily on genetic makeup of the person vaccinated too, so you want to keep tracking patients and keep those statistics up-to-date)
    – Your immune system panics and goes into overdrive; you end up in the ICU (does this happen often?)
    – If the virus can reassemble itself, that may be bad

    As for production values, the vaccine production needs to be high-quality (don’t want something bad slipping into the product), storage needs to be high-quality (no overheating on the tarmac), tracking from producer-to-patient needs to be high quality (no ripoff substitutions from a chinese microlab please); same as for CPUs really.

    • Replies: @Travis
    @El Dato

    sometimes the flu vaccine not only fails to prevent infections, it may increase your risk of dying from the flu.

    people who were vaccinated 3 years in a row—in the 2012-13, 2013-14, and 2014-15 seasons—appeared to have a higher risk of being infected with the dominant flu strain according to the report, published last week in Clinical Infectious Diseases....In studies published in 2010, researchers said they found that Canadians who had received a seasonal flu shot in the fall of 2008 were 1.4 to 2.5 times more likely to get an H1N1 infection requiring medical attention, compared with those who didn't get the seasonal shot.

    Scientists can't explain the apparent negative effects of "serial vaccination." But the findings raise questions about standard flu vaccination recommendations, which stress getting a flu shot every year to fight off the ever-mutating viruses. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/04/study-prior-year-vaccination-cut-flu-vaccine-effects-2014-15

    this may be the reason I was so sick with H1N1 , and my family escaped infection. I had been getting the flu vaccine every year, while my wife and children avoided the vaccine and did not get H1N1 despite all of us living in the same small apartment. Since getting sick with H1N1 i stopped getting the flu vaccine and have not gotten the flu since, despite both my children both getting the flu this February (and they were both vaccinated this year).

  98. @PiltdownMan
    @Anonymous

    This is a pretty good documentary on the early Russian space program.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyYosDaZAg

    Replies: @Bubba

    Thanks for this. I haven’t posted in a while so I don’t have the “Thanks” button option.

  99. @theMann
    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a "novel" corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19. And this amazing "virus" has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.


    In the meantime, the vaccines being developed are all going to "work" in the sense that they are preventing a disease that doesn't actually exist from recurring. However, and it it really is a big however, every "vaccine" in development will rely upon RNA genetic manipulation, with unforeseen and unforeseeable consequences. suppose a genetically altered "human" mates with another genetically altered "human" and produces offspring with unexpected severe genetic abnormalities.......oops. Not to mention that EVERY SINGLE LAST vaccine of this sort has shown the same results. Protection of the individual from one or two varieties of the illness, a severe worsening of response to other, similar strains of the illness. In every case the cure was literally much worse than the disease.


    So hell yes, get one of those vaccines. The world economy disintegrates at an accelerating pace, totalitarian measure amounting to war crimes are happily, willingly, embraced by entire populations in their fear of an imaginary illness, ( And for those of you who want to just keep arguing this fact, a new appearing illness sickens and kills otherwise healthy people, "covid-19" has yet to kill a single healthy person.), most people rush to embrace "vaccines" that don't work, have severe side effects, contain cells from aborted babies AND heavy metal nano-particles, but yes, you are all on the right track with this.


    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won't kill a single one of you.

    Replies: @Thoughts, @Achmed E. Newman, @Hans, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Muggles

    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a “novel” corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19.

    Not at all. Where do you people get that stuff?

    And this amazing “virus” has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    This makes no sense front, back and bottom. Review your assumptions.

    • Replies: @theMann
    @El Dato

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/the-biggest-con/


    Review yours.

  100. @JohnPlywood
    @Anonymous

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    The legitimate UFO phenomenon (not misidentified stars or regular craft) is also likely partially related German NS expatriates and their descendants, in the Americas.

    Replies: @Querc, @John Johnson, @Jack D

    Not nuclear weapons, unless you count Jews as Germans (the Germans sure didn’t).

    Also very little having to do with transistors, electronic digital computers and microchips was invented by Germans (again not counting Jews like Kleiner). Zuse’s Z3 was programmable and Turing complete but it was electro-mechanical (relay based) which made it extremely slow (4 or 5 Hz). That Hz, not kiloHz or megaHz or anything Hz, just plain Hz.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Jack D

    All the threads for computing came together eventually in US research institutes. A great moment when theory reveals what you are actually trying to do on the workbench.

    Read this, I can only recommend it highly (there are also several videos of the author's book tour)

    https://www.amazon.com/Between-Human-Machine-Cybernetics-Technology-dp-0801880572/dp/0801880572/

    , @JohnPlywood
    @Jack D

    Many of the Jews you speak of were German-educated. Nuclear weapons emerged from the 19th/20th century theoretical physics research that was done in the old German Empire and the Netherlands, Switzerland, etc.

    But you're only talking about the theoretical side of nuclear weapons. There's a difference between writing the theory behind nuclear weapons, and actually making one. For one thing, several components of nuclear weapons are classified, and uninformed members of the public have had to reverse-engineer and imagine them. One example is FOGBANK, an aerogel. We have no way of knowing who invented it, but the first aerogel was invented by a German gentile. Without aerogels, many types of modern nuclear weapons would probably never exist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOGBANK

    The exploding bridgewire detonator was an essential part of the early bombs and was invented by non-Jews of Latino and Anglo extraction.

    Some sources (notably Sam Cohen) have claimed that red mercury is a component of nuclear devices. Again, there's no way of knowing whether red mercury is even a real thing or not, but the earliest observations of a substance resembling red mercury come to us from participants in the Nazi nuclear program. In particular, die Glocke, a probable early NS nuclear reactor, was said to rely on red mercury.

    Regardless of whether there is any truth behind the die Glocke myth, we know for fact that German scientists were a vital part of the Soviet nuclear program, which independently invented its own nuclear weapons, using refined uranium products obtained from WITHIN Germany:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Alsos


    So the nuclear weapon is by no means a Jewish patent.

    As for the electrical stuff, it is true that the modern MOSFET semiconductor was invented by an Arab/Korean team, but the early transistors were independently invented by Germans, and the first transistor was invented by a German-educated Jew (Julius Lilienfeld). Again, people are refining and expounding on German research. The inspiration for these devices began in Germany.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  101. @International Jew
    @ic1000

    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself? That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren't they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?

    Granted, getting vaccinated means you get exposed to (dead) wuflu as a certainty, and not getting vaccinated you can hope you just won't get exposed at all. But sooner or later we'll all get exposed, and frankly this social distancing is starting to feel like a shitty kind of life.

    Replies: @ic1000, @Peter Lund, @El Dato, @res

    Is there any reason to think the side effects of a wuflu vaccine could be any worse than the wuflu itself?

    Adjuvants are one possible reason.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjuvant

    Aluminum adjuvants seem to be the most controversial.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21568886

  102. @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    So weird. It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.

    That’s the usual fate of Heroic Engineering projects. They work once, then they basically crash under their own weight because there is no _chain of production_ that is reliable and smooth enough to perform repeats at economic cost, or even any cost.

    Even the Space Shuttle was eventually abandoned when it became clear that far from being a serial lifting job, it was another Heroic Engineering with enormous unknowns and far higher risks than anyone had anticipated.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @El Dato


    Even the Space Shuttle was eventually abandoned when it became clear that far from being a serial lifting job, it was another Heroic Engineering with enormous unknowns and far higher risks than anyone had anticipated.
     
    And trying to actually create a serial lift platform is the current raison d'être for SpaceX.

    Not sure how feasible that is when things like pump valves are required to be produced in a minimum Class 100 clean room.
  103. It was given to scientists who developed it, in self-experimentation that is unusual in modern science, 50 members of the Russian military and a handful of other volunteers.

    Side effects include extensive growth of body hair and howling at the full moon.

  104. @Jack D
    @dearieme

    Putin is a risk taker (with other people's lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.

    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin. The Soviet Union was obsessed with being 1st or claiming to be first. Remember that Putin orchestrated a massive doping and drug test cheating scheme so that Russia could win the most Olympic medals at Sochi. The Soviets dropped their moon program like a hot kartoshka the minute they lost the space race - if they couldn't be first, what was the point of spending billions to visit a worthless rock? Russians are deeply insecure that they are inferior to the West and are always looking for confirmation that they are not inferior, they are actually better.

    (Americans love winners too - see Vince Lombardi, but in a somewhat different way, that doesn't come from a place of deep insecurity. Still this obsession with winning made the Cold War a match made in heaven and kept both sides on their toes. Sure there was a lot of waste but the competition also drove both sides to some might feats. Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn't have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother's milk. Ask yourself "what would Brezhnev do?" and you'll get the explanation to most of Putin's actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.

    Replies: @BB753, @AnotherDad, @Reg Cæsar, @Svigor

    “Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader.”
    Cause you’d rather have a less sober and more pliant to US supremacy puppet president like Yeltsin?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @BB753

    Actually I would. I never understood the alt.right love for Putin. Even if he is great for the Russian people (and even if Putin has been a blessing to them he is a very mixed blessing at best) I am not a Russian person so I ask whether he has been good for the US and the answer has to be no.

    If Putin had the power he would certainly love to install a leader for the US who is friendly to Russian interests (and even though he doesn't fully have that power he can at least try to influence things in that direction to the best of his ability by means covert and overt) as he (formerly) had in Ukraine and as he has in Belarus. What sort of leader would he be if he tried to install foreign leaders who were UNfriendly to the interests of HIS nation? And I think our leaders should be doing precisely the same thing.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  105. Speaking of vaccines, what does everyone think about the recent media push for flu vaccination because of COVID-19? Articles like this have been showing up in my news feeds.

    How To Increase Flu Vaccination During The COVID-19 Pandemic
    https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20200731.767849/full/

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200705/Research-suggests-protective-effect-of-influenza-vaccine-against-COVID-19-severity-and-mortality.aspx

    The Dual Epidemics of COVID-19 and Influenza Vaccine Acceptance, Coverage, and Mandates
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767284

    My primary thought is that unless the lockdowns stop we are unlikely to have much of a flu season. Notice how flu prevalence decreased sharply as the COVID-19 lockdowns were put in place.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @res

    OK, how come, say, 10% positive is considered a high number for The Virus?

    Does that many 90% of people with a cough and fever have a bad cold or the ordinary flu?

    I didn't think we were testing that many people for The Virus who didn't have symptoms?

  106. OT: Looks like BHO has stiffed his publisher after getting a $65 million advance for his and Michelle’s books. His was to be done in 2018 and so far he’s submitted nothing. Color me unsurprised.

    https://spectator.org/obama-book-deal-failure-to-perform/

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Jim Don Bob

    Obama doesn't want to do the work of writing the book himself, but doesn't want to find a ghostwriter either. I don't see how he gets this done, maybe he tells them he is waiting until after the election and pushed it down the road a few more months? Does the publisher have the will to go after his advance?

    , @William Badwhite
    @Jim Don Bob

    Ha ha that's awesome. What a grifter.

    Serves Random House right - I love the thought process: "here's this lazy empty suit that's already 'written' not one, but TWO books about himself. Lets give him $65mm up front for a third. What could go wrong"?

    It's like paying your contractor in advance - they'll never finish. Everybody knows you hold back some of the dough. Well everyone except Random House.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Jim Don Bob

    Jim Bob, title of his book..."Reparations, I got mine!"

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jim Don Bob


    His was to be done in 2018 and so far he’s submitted nothing. Color me unsurprised.
     
    What is preoccupying Bill Ayers these days? BLM? Looting?
  107. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    The objection to masks is simple: If you do happen to believe the COVID threat or the lockdown response is being seriously oversold, then widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease. There are no other handy compelling visuals — no bodies in the street, no lines outside hospitals, no smoking crematoriums, no sobbing relatives — for the media or public officials to sell the story.

    Of course wearing a mask, for quick durations at least, is no big deal in crowded situations. But seeing everyone walking around with them creates a sense of submission, compliance and depersonalization. Plus there are numerous studies and explanations as to why a mask might not help or might even harm, why they might work for some cultures but noth others, and these seem to get buried, as with anything else that doesn’t fit the reigning narrative.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Known Fact

    Thank you, K.F.! Sometimes, I can't get my thoughts into the right words. Your reply to Jack here made me think of my problem with these masks better.

    I believe this is a massive bout of stupidity brought on by a 6 month-long (with a slight intermission) Infotainment Panic-Fest (kinda like Shark-fest week). I don't care how stupid people want to be, if it doesn't involve coercing me to pay for it or, especially, be a part of it. Wearing the mask makes me feel like I'm a part of the stupidity, and I don't want that.

    Replies: @Known Fact

  108. @dearieme
    I'm puzzled: what's the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?

    Replies: @Sean, @Matt Buckalew, @Jack D, @dearieme, @Hypnotoad666

    The penny drops: he’s worried about being overthrown.

    If the vaccination campaign is a success he basks in it; if a failure – well, you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

    Speculation, you say? OK, but probably better than anything coming out of the CIA. And so much cheaper.

  109. @roo_ster
    Currently have corona vax for livestock. Short-lived and unacceptably large number of bad reactions (illness & death) from it to use on humans.

    I'd bet against any kung flu vax with safety & efficacy up to the standards now extant in the west for other vax.

    Replies: @gcochran

    The animal vaccines are for different coronaviruses.

  110. @Jack D

    And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    Apparently the new vaccine is called "Sputnik". I kid you not.

    Putin can try to cover himself with the glory of the former Soviet Union but Russia today is a pale shadow of the Soviet Union. However, it resembles the Soviet Union in that Russian government leaders have a higher tolerance for killing civilians than Western leaders (see Flight MH17). Sure you can shortcut the approval process and give millions of people an unproven vaccine that may be ineffective or may have unknown side effects, but is it a good idea? Even if it turns out fine, there is a reason why we don't do this in the West.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Jack, the USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flt 665 in 1988, killing all 290 passengers. It was a case of mistaken identity. Did the Russians knowingly shoot down a passenger plane?

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Buffalo Joe

    >>Jack, the USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flt 665 in 1988, killing all 290 passengers. It was a case of mistaken identity. Did the Russians knowingly shoot down a passenger plane?<<

    How quickly some forget. Or maybe you're too young.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  111. @Redneck farmer
    Probably find it works great for 1 or 2 strains, helps with a few more, and can't protect against most COVID-19 strains.

    Replies: @Aardvark, @gcochran, @HA

    Although there is some genetic variation, there’s no sign that the differences affect the key antigens – so, at this time, you’re wrong.

    • Thanks: Redneck farmer
  112. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    Seriously.

    I grew up hearing the hardships family and friends endured in WW I, WW II, Korea, and Vietnam. I later learned of the hardships my family endured in earlier wars. My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.

    And many current Americans are too wimpy to wear a mask when out in public????

    And they boast about it? Supposedly increasing the risk of themselves and others to disease is a greater blow for freedom than my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?

    • Agree: Muggles
    • Troll: Polynikes
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Paleo Liberal


    ...my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?
     
    Which we are waging to this day:

    U.S. Marine Corps Sexual Violence on Okinawa

    I guess "unconditional surrender" means exactly that! Even the beasts of the field are unsafe:

    According to USMC courts-martial records obtained from USMC Headquarters, between January 2015 and December 2017, 65 U.S. marines were imprisoned at courts-martial on Okinawa for sexual offenses targeting adults, children and, in one case, an unknown number of animals...

    The USMCHQ records also reveal that the USMC on Okinawa held the dubious distinction of conducting the only court-martial for bestiality throughout the USMC between 2015 and 2017.
     
    This gives new range and depth to the term lance corporal, doesn't it?

    My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.
     
    Not to be confused with Chesty Morgan.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin, @Hippopotamusdrome

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Paleo Liberal

    P.L., we are not in the middle of a World War or any serious crisis. That's the problem people like me have with this crap. State of Emergencies at the State level are to last for a month max per many State Constitutions for a reason. If it's over a month, there is obviously time for the State Legislators, who the people can actually talk to, to vote on this totalitarian shit.

    The thing is, this very minor, slightly-worse flu season than normal, is being made into an emergency so that the LOCKDOWNS (a term used in maximum security prisons till recently), Shelter-in-Place orders, and requirements for whatever some bureaucrats/"experts" decide to be put on us. I'm having no part of it!*

    Who's to say when and what the next "crisis" will be? Do you want your children and grandchildren to live in the kind of world that C.J. Hopkins describes? Man, you guys are just pussies to not resist totalitarianism even one iota, and if your grandchildren call your whole generation nasty names in the dystopian near future, I wouldn't blame them one bit.


    .

    * For my job, I've had to wear a mask lately, but I put up as much resistance as possible. There's always that eating/sipping water thing... gotta stay hydrated, ya' know...

  113. Anonymous[132] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s already being called the “Sputnik vaccine” for the magnitude of the achievement compared to the paultry resources the Russians have to work with.

    Russia is not the most organized country. Or the most economically productive. But Russians are capable of displaying truly extraordinary levels of competence when they really want to. Besides the vaccine, Russian mathematician, Grigori Perelman, solved the Poincare Conjecture, the hardest problem in all of math that had been unsolved for 100 years. And Russia has almost twice as many Fields Medal per capita ss the U.S. And Russia has produced the greatest novelists ever.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Anonymous

    Russia also has that grand history and tradition of classical music

    Replies: @vinteuil

  114. Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases…

    I was wondering why this guy is getting all the air time, rather than the Surgeon General, whose name I had to look up. Are the media exercising white privilege?

    Viva Frei tears into Dr Fauci’s arrogance focusing on one “fancy-Nancy” word:

    Anthony S Fauci = Yo! Shun fanatic!

    (Or “Oy!”, if you prefer.)

    OT, but here is a potential unity ticket for 2024, or whenever they turn 35:

    They also have one for this campaign season, and how you can Absolve Yourself by Canceling Others.

  115. anon[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    I really don’t get the objection to masks

    People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica. Yeah, it’s annoying to mask up all day, and they do need to be replaced or washed. It’s not quite the same as being ordered to sit through 5 hour hate sessions, though. My state allows face shields as a substitute, not all are like that I know. I’ve thought about getting the welding mask out, but…it’s kinda hard to see through the window, by design. So…nah.

    Plus there is this:
    “Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.”

    Some get oppressed by having to hide part of their face because reasons. Also funny, because it’s totally possible to flirt over a mask with eyes alone. Middle Eastern women in the Gulf states do it all the time.

  116. Has any Russian-developed non-recreational drug killed more people than Vioxx (perhaps as many as 500,000)?

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/

  117. @Jack D
    @JohnPlywood

    Not nuclear weapons, unless you count Jews as Germans (the Germans sure didn't).

    Also very little having to do with transistors, electronic digital computers and microchips was invented by Germans (again not counting Jews like Kleiner). Zuse's Z3 was programmable and Turing complete but it was electro-mechanical (relay based) which made it extremely slow (4 or 5 Hz). That Hz, not kiloHz or megaHz or anything Hz, just plain Hz.

    Replies: @El Dato, @JohnPlywood

    All the threads for computing came together eventually in US research institutes. A great moment when theory reveals what you are actually trying to do on the workbench.

    Read this, I can only recommend it highly (there are also several videos of the author’s book tour)

  118. @Jack D
    @dearieme

    Putin is a risk taker (with other people's lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.

    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin. The Soviet Union was obsessed with being 1st or claiming to be first. Remember that Putin orchestrated a massive doping and drug test cheating scheme so that Russia could win the most Olympic medals at Sochi. The Soviets dropped their moon program like a hot kartoshka the minute they lost the space race - if they couldn't be first, what was the point of spending billions to visit a worthless rock? Russians are deeply insecure that they are inferior to the West and are always looking for confirmation that they are not inferior, they are actually better.

    (Americans love winners too - see Vince Lombardi, but in a somewhat different way, that doesn't come from a place of deep insecurity. Still this obsession with winning made the Cold War a match made in heaven and kept both sides on their toes. Sure there was a lot of waste but the competition also drove both sides to some might feats. Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn't have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother's milk. Ask yourself "what would Brezhnev do?" and you'll get the explanation to most of Putin's actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.

    Replies: @BB753, @AnotherDad, @Reg Cæsar, @Svigor

    Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn’t have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)

    Classic JackD. Well done Jack!

    BTW, even though things would definitely have gotten worse with social media, i have often had this same thought: If the Cold War was still going on, we simply could not have–or at minimum the elites encouraging–the level feminine silliness and hysteria that is driving things now.

  119. @Paleo Liberal
    @Jack D

    Seriously.

    I grew up hearing the hardships family and friends endured in WW I, WW II, Korea, and Vietnam. I later learned of the hardships my family endured in earlier wars. My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.

    And many current Americans are too wimpy to wear a mask when out in public????

    And they boast about it? Supposedly increasing the risk of themselves and others to disease is a greater blow for freedom than my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    …my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?

    Which we are waging to this day:

    U.S. Marine Corps Sexual Violence on Okinawa

    I guess “unconditional surrender” means exactly that! Even the beasts of the field are unsafe:

    According to USMC courts-martial records obtained from USMC Headquarters, between January 2015 and December 2017, 65 U.S. marines were imprisoned at courts-martial on Okinawa for sexual offenses targeting adults, children and, in one case, an unknown number of animals…

    The USMCHQ records also reveal that the USMC on Okinawa held the dubious distinction of conducting the only court-martial for bestiality throughout the USMC between 2015 and 2017.

    This gives new range and depth to the term lance corporal, doesn’t it?

    My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.

    Not to be confused with Chesty Morgan.

    • Replies: @Father Coughlin
    @Reg Cæsar


    Not to be confused with Chesty Morgan.
     
    And Russ Meyer is not to be confused with the Brooklyn Dodgers World Series pitcher.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Reg Cæsar

    court-martial for bestiality

     

    That should be used if there is ever a MASH reboot.
  120. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    If you have the time, Jack (no more than 5 minutes, unless you get into the comments), I ask you to read unz-writer C.J.Hopkins’ latest excellent article – “Invasion of the New Normals” – and get back to me. I’ve had the same thoughts as him, but he puts it all more eloquently.

    Please write back if you read it, as I’d really like to know what you think. I promise he’d not a Godfree Roberts-style nutcase, and he lives in Germany, so it’s not like he’s a Libertarian freak or something.

    As to your reading of the Bill of Rights, I suggest Amendment X – it’s one sentence long. The Constitution does not deign to elucidate all the freedoms Americans are supposed to have. The idea is to set limits on the Federal Government. That’s not a factor in much of this COVID nonsense, which is one slight silver lining I see. At least people can take the problems up with their own State/local govs.

    Oh, speaking of spitting on the sidewalk, you’ll love this one, Jack, or maybe not: After going into the grocery store a few weeks ago after being pissed at my wife for some of this hysteria, I didn’t wear a mask, I went the wrong way through the aisles (when possible), and I ignored the stupid stickers on the floor. I had almost calmed down after leaving the store, but I did hawk one big loogie onto the sticker on the asphalt right outside the door. I felt a lot better after that!

  121. @Paleo Liberal
    @Jack D

    Seriously.

    I grew up hearing the hardships family and friends endured in WW I, WW II, Korea, and Vietnam. I later learned of the hardships my family endured in earlier wars. My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.

    And many current Americans are too wimpy to wear a mask when out in public????

    And they boast about it? Supposedly increasing the risk of themselves and others to disease is a greater blow for freedom than my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    P.L., we are not in the middle of a World War or any serious crisis. That’s the problem people like me have with this crap. State of Emergencies at the State level are to last for a month max per many State Constitutions for a reason. If it’s over a month, there is obviously time for the State Legislators, who the people can actually talk to, to vote on this totalitarian shit.

    The thing is, this very minor, slightly-worse flu season than normal, is being made into an emergency so that the LOCKDOWNS (a term used in maximum security prisons till recently), Shelter-in-Place orders, and requirements for whatever some bureaucrats/”experts” decide to be put on us. I’m having no part of it!*

    Who’s to say when and what the next “crisis” will be? Do you want your children and grandchildren to live in the kind of world that C.J. Hopkins describes? Man, you guys are just pussies to not resist totalitarianism even one iota, and if your grandchildren call your whole generation nasty names in the dystopian near future, I wouldn’t blame them one bit.

    .

    * For my job, I’ve had to wear a mask lately, but I put up as much resistance as possible. There’s always that eating/sipping water thing… gotta stay hydrated, ya’ know…

  122. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    Here, for those who won’t take the time:

    And, make no mistake, that is exactly what the “New Normal” movement intends to do. “New Normalism” is a classic totalitarian movement (albeit with a pathological twist), and it is the goal of every totalitarian movement to radically, utterly transform society, to remake the world in its monstrous image.

    That is what totalitarianism is, this desire to establish complete control over everything and everyone, every thought, emotion, and human interaction. The character of its ideology changes (i.e., Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, etc.), but this desire for complete control over people, over society, and ultimately life itself, is the essence of totalitarianism … and what has taken over the minds of the New Normals.

    In the New Normal society they want to establish, as in every totalitarian society, fear and conformity will be pervasive. Their ideology is a pathologized ideology (as opposed to, say, the racialized ideology of the Nazis), so its symbology will be pathological. Fear of disease, infection, and death, and obsessive attention to matters of health will dominate every aspect of life. Paranoid propaganda and ideological conditioning will be ubiquitous and constant.

    Everyone will be forced to wear medical masks to maintain a constant level of fear and an omnipresent atmosphere of sickness and death, as if the world were one big infectious disease ward. Everyone will wear these masks at all times, at work, at home, in their cars, everywhere. Anyone who fails or refuses to do so will be deemed “a threat to public health,” and beaten and arrested by the police or the military, or swarmed by mobs of New Normal vigilantes.

    [SNIP]

    The threat of “infection” will be used to justify increasingly insane and authoritarian edicts, compulsory demonstration-of-fealty rituals, and eventually the elimination of all forms of dissent. Just as the Nazis believed they were waging a war against the “subhuman races,” the New Normals will be waging a war on “disease,” and on anyone who “endangers the public health” by challenging their ideological narrative. Like every other totalitarian movement, in the end, they will do whatever is necessary to purify society of “degenerate influences” (i.e., anyone who questions or disagrees with them, or who refuses to obey their every command).

    [SNIP]

    [MORE]


    Despite this increasing totalitarianization and pathologization of virtually everything, the New Normals will carry on with their lives as if everything were … well, completely normal. They will go out to restaurants and the movies in their masks. They will work, eat, and sleep in their masks. Families will go on holiday in their masks, or in their “Personal Protective Upper-Body Bubble-Wear.” They will arrive at the airport eight hours early, stand in their little color-coded boxes, and then follow the arrows on the floor to the “health officials” in the hazmat suits, who will take their temperature through their foreheads and shove ten-inch swabs into their sinus cavities.

  123. @Jack D
    @dearieme

    Putin is a risk taker (with other people's lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.

    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin. The Soviet Union was obsessed with being 1st or claiming to be first. Remember that Putin orchestrated a massive doping and drug test cheating scheme so that Russia could win the most Olympic medals at Sochi. The Soviets dropped their moon program like a hot kartoshka the minute they lost the space race - if they couldn't be first, what was the point of spending billions to visit a worthless rock? Russians are deeply insecure that they are inferior to the West and are always looking for confirmation that they are not inferior, they are actually better.

    (Americans love winners too - see Vince Lombardi, but in a somewhat different way, that doesn't come from a place of deep insecurity. Still this obsession with winning made the Cold War a match made in heaven and kept both sides on their toes. Sure there was a lot of waste but the competition also drove both sides to some might feats. Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn't have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother's milk. Ask yourself "what would Brezhnev do?" and you'll get the explanation to most of Putin's actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.

    Replies: @BB753, @AnotherDad, @Reg Cæsar, @Svigor

    Americans love winners too – see Vince Lombardi…

    Americans outside Wisconsin (and the UP) did not love Lombardi. At least until he retired– or died, whichever came first. Cf. # 12:

    Why Is Baseball So Much Better Than Football?

    FWIW, the Caped Crusader and the Boy Wonder had a policy of signing autographs with their left hands, so they wouldn’t be linked to Bruce and Dick. Faux Four acts usually make sure that their Paul plays a lefty bass– lucky for them it’s a bass– but how many comic-con Batmans know to do this?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Reg Cæsar

    I like #23

    , @Hhsiii
    @Reg Cæsar

    Vince was popular in NY pre-Packers. He was a Fordham guy, offensive coordinator for the Gifford, Connerly, Tittle, Rosie Brown, Huff, Robustelli Giants. With Tom Landry as defensive coordinator.

    I think it’s about time to reread A Fan’s Notes and watch The Fortune Cookie.

    Replies: @Hhsiii

  124. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Americans love winners too – see Vince Lombardi...
     
    Americans outside Wisconsin (and the UP) did not love Lombardi. At least until he retired-- or died, whichever came first. Cf. # 12:

    Why Is Baseball So Much Better Than Football?

    FWIW, the Caped Crusader and the Boy Wonder had a policy of signing autographs with their left hands, so they wouldn't be linked to Bruce and Dick. Faux Four acts usually make sure that their Paul plays a lefty bass-- lucky for them it's a bass-- but how many comic-con Batmans know to do this?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Hhsiii

    I like #23

  125. @John Cunningham
    @Dumbo

    My pal the retired ENT doc says that he never takes a vaccine in it's first year of use.

    Replies: @Billy Shears

    Can you have him point us in the direction of reports of “bad” vaccines?

  126. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Gordo

    And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    Yes they did, by stealing US technology, copying it, and reducing safety standards to save time.

    Maybe the same here, I too hope it is efficient and safe but wouldn't want to be in on the first couple of batches.

    Replies: @anon, @YetAnotherAnon

    Right now, Russia is the only country with a proven human rated rocket. NASA has been paying about $100 million per seat to access ISS. Our DoD classified missions (spy satellites etc.) are launched with rockets made by ULA which use Russian engines. We won’t have anything to replace Russian engines for a while, if it ever happens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180

    • Replies: @anon
    @anon

    Right now, Russia is the only country with a proven human rated rocket.

    No.

    NASA has been paying about $100 million per seat to access ISS.

    Not any more. Now NASA can get astronauts to the ISS via Crew Dragon on top of a Falcon rocket, launched from Cape Canaveral. Running an American made engine. It was all over the news, you can watch a vid of the launch, docking, and splashdown easily.

    Our DoD classified missions (spy satellites etc.) are launched with rockets made by ULA which use Russian engines. We won’t have anything to replace Russian engines for a while, if it ever happens.

    Lol, you are really out of date. SpaceX builds rockets and engines. That company is making bank not just from NASA but from DOD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Merlin

  127. The Cunning of Reason, strikes again! After the vaccine is banned by the FDA, we will have a non-political, non-religious, non-racial excuse to emigrate to Russia.

  128. @Reg Cæsar
    @Paleo Liberal


    ...my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?
     
    Which we are waging to this day:

    U.S. Marine Corps Sexual Violence on Okinawa

    I guess "unconditional surrender" means exactly that! Even the beasts of the field are unsafe:

    According to USMC courts-martial records obtained from USMC Headquarters, between January 2015 and December 2017, 65 U.S. marines were imprisoned at courts-martial on Okinawa for sexual offenses targeting adults, children and, in one case, an unknown number of animals...

    The USMCHQ records also reveal that the USMC on Okinawa held the dubious distinction of conducting the only court-martial for bestiality throughout the USMC between 2015 and 2017.
     
    This gives new range and depth to the term lance corporal, doesn't it?

    My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.
     
    Not to be confused with Chesty Morgan.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Not to be confused with Chesty Morgan.

    And Russ Meyer is not to be confused with the Brooklyn Dodgers World Series pitcher.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Father Coughlin


    And Russ Meyer is not to be confused with the Brooklyn Dodgers World Series pitcher.
     
    I have trouble keeping the two Brett Butlers straight. As well as the Eva(n) Longorias.
  129. @dearieme
    I'm puzzled: what's the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?

    Replies: @Sean, @Matt Buckalew, @Jack D, @dearieme, @Hypnotoad666

    I’m puzzled: what’s the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?

    Or is it a greater risk to keep waiting and waiting, and testing and testing, as is the American health care approach?

    The vaccine issue creates a bit of cognitive dissonance for the fear-mongering media. On the one hand, if the virus really was the new Black Death as they have been claiming, we should be willing to run the risk of vaccine side effects to stop it. (Especially as the pre-covid media narrative was that anyone who questioned vaccines was, by definition, a crazy “Vaxxer.”)

    On the other hand, letting the virus spread because you are afraid of vaccine side effects implies that you must not believe the unchecked virus is all that bad.

    In reality, it’s just a classic question of making a technical trade off between the costs and benefits of making a Type I vs. Type II error. But that would require actual facts and thinking. So it’s way beyond our media’s capability. (Also, it would require them to rigorously quantify the true dangers of the virus rather than fear-mongering based on fake numbers).

    Since the media can’t address the issues of a new vaccine roll-out in any honest or intelligent way, expect to see a lot of nonsense based on “Russia Bad” and “Safety First” cliches.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Actually, we have the necessary safeguards in place so that we do not have to “accept” the potential side effects for a vaccine rushed through the process. And there is liability on the part of American drug manufacturers if they cut corners. So your notion that we must take on the risks is nonsense. There is good reason to fear an unproven vaccine.

    Replies: @Svigor, @Hypnotoad666

    , @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666

    Look, there is a reason why we have the FDA act which requires that drugs must be proven to be "safe" AND "effective" before you take them. There are a lot of conditions (e.g. pancreatic cancer) that are even worse that Covid for their victims - much worse as in close to 100% mortality. But we don't allow even people living under a death sentence to receive unproven treatments (except as part of organized and limited size trials) and for a good reason. Hippocrates said, "first do no harm". The treatment should never be worse than the disease.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  130. Are you alright with trying a US-made vaccine before millions of others do?

  131. If it works as well as the Flu vaccine it may reduce risk of getting sick with COVID by 50% for those under the age of 55.

    But the flu vaccine works better for those under the age of 55. For those over the age of 65 the flu offers little protection. Last year 75% of the elderly were vaccinated against the flu , yet 45,000 elderly still died from the flu.

    in some years the flu vaccine offers zero protection for those over the age of 60. Despite being exposed to a lifetime’s worth of illnesses, immune systems in the elderly are worse at fighting stealthy viruses.
    https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/why-flu-vaccines-dont-work-as-well-in-the-elderly

  132. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    Time for a shot of “The Right Stuff”:

  133. @theMann
    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a "novel" corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19. And this amazing "virus" has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.


    In the meantime, the vaccines being developed are all going to "work" in the sense that they are preventing a disease that doesn't actually exist from recurring. However, and it it really is a big however, every "vaccine" in development will rely upon RNA genetic manipulation, with unforeseen and unforeseeable consequences. suppose a genetically altered "human" mates with another genetically altered "human" and produces offspring with unexpected severe genetic abnormalities.......oops. Not to mention that EVERY SINGLE LAST vaccine of this sort has shown the same results. Protection of the individual from one or two varieties of the illness, a severe worsening of response to other, similar strains of the illness. In every case the cure was literally much worse than the disease.


    So hell yes, get one of those vaccines. The world economy disintegrates at an accelerating pace, totalitarian measure amounting to war crimes are happily, willingly, embraced by entire populations in their fear of an imaginary illness, ( And for those of you who want to just keep arguing this fact, a new appearing illness sickens and kills otherwise healthy people, "covid-19" has yet to kill a single healthy person.), most people rush to embrace "vaccines" that don't work, have severe side effects, contain cells from aborted babies AND heavy metal nano-particles, but yes, you are all on the right track with this.


    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won't kill a single one of you.

    Replies: @Thoughts, @Achmed E. Newman, @Hans, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Muggles

    And this amazing “virus” has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities.

    The virus is basically like a bad common cold, which can kill you only if you are so sick from other conditions that covid acts as the “straw that breaks the camel’s back.”

    Logically, every straw is equally responsible for the camel’s broken back. But the perverted logic of the CDC/Media is that only the covid “straw” counts as “the cause.”

    If covid were analyzed accurately as a merely contributory factor, rather than “the cause” of a chronically sick person’s death, its true risk could be quantified pretty easily by anyone with access to the data.

    Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two. We could probably cancel out its entire negative effect by, for example, having each American agree to exercise for ten minutes a day. Wouldn’t that be better than self-destructing our economy and Constitution?

    But alas, we live in an age of lying idiocracy.

    • Replies: @HA
    @Hypnotoad666

    "Logically, every straw is equally responsible for the camel’s broken back. But the perverted logic of the CDC/Media is that only the covid “straw” counts as “the cause.”

    Talk about idiocracy, how many times must we go through all this? If you just look at excess deaths -- which don't involve pretending that a motorcycle accident was caused by COVID or any other cause-of-death labeling games -- the number of dead is about the same (in fact, somewhat greater). So no, while it's true that COVID hits those with co-morbidities first, pretending that it "unfairly" gets all the credit, or however you want to phrase it, is not going to work for anyone who is paying attention.

    (And before we get another moronic round of "but it's the lockdowns that are to blame for all those excess deaths!", that excuse also won't wash given that those states that have eased or done away with lockdowns saw an INCREASE in those excess mortalities. Magic/tragic lockdowns that kill people the more they're applied -- and then start killing even more when they're eased -- don't exist outside of your heads-you-win-tails-everyone-else-loses flights of fancy, anymore than the tragic/magic dirt that is the main culprit in black people being left behind.)

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  134. @Jack D
    @JohnPlywood

    Not nuclear weapons, unless you count Jews as Germans (the Germans sure didn't).

    Also very little having to do with transistors, electronic digital computers and microchips was invented by Germans (again not counting Jews like Kleiner). Zuse's Z3 was programmable and Turing complete but it was electro-mechanical (relay based) which made it extremely slow (4 or 5 Hz). That Hz, not kiloHz or megaHz or anything Hz, just plain Hz.

    Replies: @El Dato, @JohnPlywood

    Many of the Jews you speak of were German-educated. Nuclear weapons emerged from the 19th/20th century theoretical physics research that was done in the old German Empire and the Netherlands, Switzerland, etc.

    But you’re only talking about the theoretical side of nuclear weapons. There’s a difference between writing the theory behind nuclear weapons, and actually making one. For one thing, several components of nuclear weapons are classified, and uninformed members of the public have had to reverse-engineer and imagine them. One example is FOGBANK, an aerogel. We have no way of knowing who invented it, but the first aerogel was invented by a German gentile. Without aerogels, many types of modern nuclear weapons would probably never exist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOGBANK

    The exploding bridgewire detonator was an essential part of the early bombs and was invented by non-Jews of Latino and Anglo extraction.

    Some sources (notably Sam Cohen) have claimed that red mercury is a component of nuclear devices. Again, there’s no way of knowing whether red mercury is even a real thing or not, but the earliest observations of a substance resembling red mercury come to us from participants in the Nazi nuclear program. In particular, die Glocke, a probable early NS nuclear reactor, was said to rely on red mercury.

    Regardless of whether there is any truth behind the die Glocke myth, we know for fact that German scientists were a vital part of the Soviet nuclear program, which independently invented its own nuclear weapons, using refined uranium products obtained from WITHIN Germany:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Alsos

    So the nuclear weapon is by no means a Jewish patent.

    As for the electrical stuff, it is true that the modern MOSFET semiconductor was invented by an Arab/Korean team, but the early transistors were independently invented by Germans, and the first transistor was invented by a German-educated Jew (Julius Lilienfeld). Again, people are refining and expounding on German research. The inspiration for these devices began in Germany.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @JohnPlywood

    A word of advice: the history of science and technology pushed by people like Alex Jones and Nick Cook is ignorant bulls**t.

    You are wrong in thinking that Germans invented everything - as much as some jewish chauvinists are wrong in thinking that Jews invented everything.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

  135. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    You really stirred up a nest of boobs there.

    Only lunkhead assholes get all bent out of a shape over wearing a mask.

    What if they had to work for a living? Oh, heaven forfend!

  136. So it’s basically a country-wide Stage Three trial, sounds good me. Hope it works out for them, seems like we have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

  137. @Cloudbuster
    @Jack D

    I’ve read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn’t see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere.

    You missed it. It's right here:

    "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    The Constitution was never intended to be an exhaustive listing of all human rights, as the authors considered that unfeasible. Instead the document, properly read, is a limitation on government power. The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Kratoklastes

    Agree. It’s a big chunk of any useful liberal constitution to explain where the state’s power towards citizens is limited.

  138. Today is the 55th anniversary of the Watts riots. Also, Marcus Garvey’s birthday is coming up.

    Cancellation Shoes? Were people being deplatformed in 1965? Oh, wait… they weren’t being platformed in the first place.

    Except at Cancellation Shoes, perhaps.

  139. anon[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous2space
    Just a reminder:


    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.


    So weird. It's almost as if it's an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we're completely unable to 50 years later.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Querc, @The Wild Geese Howard, @Peter Lund, @Svigor, @Matt Buckalew, @John Johnson, @El Dato, @anon

    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*. We have to pay them to take us to the space station on their ships. Ask Elon Musk.

    Lol, what cave are you currently living in? A SpaceX Crew Dragon was launched from Canaveral weeks ago on top of a SpaceX Falcon rocket. It docked with the ISS, then just returned last week.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/spacex-capsule-endeavor-splashes-down-213600612.html

    American astronauts launched from American soil in an American capsule on top of an American rocket at a substantially lower cost than what NASA was paying the Russians. That’s the latest.

    Next up, Branson plans to take tourists suborbital.

  140. @Hypnotoad666
    @dearieme


    I’m puzzled: what’s the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?
     
    Or is it a greater risk to keep waiting and waiting, and testing and testing, as is the American health care approach?

    The vaccine issue creates a bit of cognitive dissonance for the fear-mongering media. On the one hand, if the virus really was the new Black Death as they have been claiming, we should be willing to run the risk of vaccine side effects to stop it. (Especially as the pre-covid media narrative was that anyone who questioned vaccines was, by definition, a crazy "Vaxxer.")

    On the other hand, letting the virus spread because you are afraid of vaccine side effects implies that you must not believe the unchecked virus is all that bad.

    In reality, it's just a classic question of making a technical trade off between the costs and benefits of making a Type I vs. Type II error. But that would require actual facts and thinking. So it's way beyond our media's capability. (Also, it would require them to rigorously quantify the true dangers of the virus rather than fear-mongering based on fake numbers).

    Since the media can't address the issues of a new vaccine roll-out in any honest or intelligent way, expect to see a lot of nonsense based on "Russia Bad" and "Safety First" cliches.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D

    Actually, we have the necessary safeguards in place so that we do not have to “accept” the potential side effects for a vaccine rushed through the process. And there is liability on the part of American drug manufacturers if they cut corners. So your notion that we must take on the risks is nonsense. There is good reason to fear an unproven vaccine.

    • Replies: @Svigor
    @Corvinus

    Hey Corvanus, how's the Mueller probe coming along? Bob still gonna drop the hammer on the cheetoh Real Soon Now?

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus


    Actually, we have the necessary safeguards in place so that we do not have to “accept” the potential side effects for a vaccine rushed through the process. And there is liability on the part of American drug manufacturers if they cut corners. So your notion that we must take on the risks is nonsense. There is good reason to fear an unproven vaccine.
     
    I think you are missing the point.

    First, I think the covid panic is a big hoax. Therefore, I wouldn't advocate any vaccine that had substantial risks.

    Second, if you do buy the claim that covid is a big killer then the "risk" of not "rushing" a vaccine into service is that people will die from covid while they are waiting for the "non-rushed" approval process to play out over months and years. Whether you think this is acceptable depends on how many people you believe are truly killed by covid.

    Finally, you are assuming there will eventually be no risk from a hypothetical vaccine that gets through the "safeguards." You don't know if any vaccine will get approved, when it will happen, how effective it will be, or how many side effects it will cause.

    If you could quantify all those estimates, you could run it through the cost-benefit analysis of deciding to go with a "rushed" vaccine. But you can't. It's all just speculation. Talking in non-quantitative terms about what's "rushed" and what's "safe" is not useful.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  141. @Jack D
    @dearieme

    Putin is a risk taker (with other people's lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.

    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin. The Soviet Union was obsessed with being 1st or claiming to be first. Remember that Putin orchestrated a massive doping and drug test cheating scheme so that Russia could win the most Olympic medals at Sochi. The Soviets dropped their moon program like a hot kartoshka the minute they lost the space race - if they couldn't be first, what was the point of spending billions to visit a worthless rock? Russians are deeply insecure that they are inferior to the West and are always looking for confirmation that they are not inferior, they are actually better.

    (Americans love winners too - see Vince Lombardi, but in a somewhat different way, that doesn't come from a place of deep insecurity. Still this obsession with winning made the Cold War a match made in heaven and kept both sides on their toes. Sure there was a lot of waste but the competition also drove both sides to some might feats. Looking at the current mess we have now, I almost miss the Cold War as much as Putin does. If Batman doesn't have the Joker threatening to kill everyone in Gotham then Batman sits around the Batcave playing video games and getting ill advised tattoos and wondering whether Black Lives Matter.)

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother's milk. Ask yourself "what would Brezhnev do?" and you'll get the explanation to most of Putin's actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.

    Replies: @BB753, @AnotherDad, @Reg Cæsar, @Svigor

    Putin is a risk taker (with other people’s lives). If it works, he gets to claim that Russia was the first on the market with a vaccine.

    Yeah Bush and Hussein didn’t rack up huge death tolls with their foreign adventurism, or anything. In contrast, they took every opportunity to put their lives at risk. Russia’s record in this century of not breaking countries in Israel’s neighborhood down to rubble, not murdering people wholesale, and not putting the lives of his military at risk is far better than America’s.

    But I guess boomer cuckservatives really eat up this “never mind the (((regime))) that’s been destroying America for the last 60 years, pay attention to China and Russia, goy” schtick. Even on strictly cuckservative grounds you’d think cuckservatives would have so much to worry about DOMESTICALLY from the soft-totalitarian regime choking the life out of our republic, but nope, they fall for this shit every time.

    Mostly because they’re lazy cowards and know they can rail against foreign countries without having to actually do anything.

    Being #1 is very important for Russians with a Soviet mentality like Putin.

    Who cares? I mean other than boomer cuckservatives and cat ladies. I mean, like what is America shooting for? Participation trophies for everyone?

    Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader. He was raised in the Soviet system (inside its inner sanctum, the Secret Police) and imbibed its lessons like mother’s milk. Ask yourself “what would Brezhnev do?” and you’ll get the explanation to most of Putin’s actions. From a Western POV such actions may make no sense and even seem self-defeating, but from a Soviet perspective they make perfect sense. The Soviet sense of risk and reward and the value of individual lives is quite different than the Western sense, for better and for worse.

    Yeah, if only he’d done the right thing and turned Russia over to (((his betters))). Russia could become (((Wiemar Russia))) in no time.

  142. @Father Coughlin
    @Reg Cæsar


    Not to be confused with Chesty Morgan.
     
    And Russ Meyer is not to be confused with the Brooklyn Dodgers World Series pitcher.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    And Russ Meyer is not to be confused with the Brooklyn Dodgers World Series pitcher.

    I have trouble keeping the two Brett Butlers straight. As well as the Eva(n) Longorias.

    • LOL: Father Coughlin
  143. @John Johnson
    @Anonymous

    That is the dirty secret.

    US and Soviets played a game of who could make better use of their captured German scientists. Both sides pretended their successes were the natural result of capitalism or communism.

    Where would the US be without Von Braun?

    He and Shockley are the greats that we aren't supposed to talk about.

    Shockley changed the world but had to be buried from the public mind for calling BS on liberal lysenko beliefs.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Buffalo Joe

    Where would the US be without Von Braun?

    At about the same level, really.

    The US had already Goddard. It’s just that nobody even knew he existed.

    One man doesn’t make all that much a difference. Political oomph, in this case, creation of NASA under the nose of the infighting military and while congress was ready to go on holiday does. James Webb’s management did it.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @El Dato

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Ran-Moon-History-ebook/dp/B001OW6CM8/ref=sr_1_1

  144. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Actually, we have the necessary safeguards in place so that we do not have to “accept” the potential side effects for a vaccine rushed through the process. And there is liability on the part of American drug manufacturers if they cut corners. So your notion that we must take on the risks is nonsense. There is good reason to fear an unproven vaccine.

    Replies: @Svigor, @Hypnotoad666

    Hey Corvanus, how’s the Mueller probe coming along? Bob still gonna drop the hammer on the cheetoh Real Soon Now?

    • LOL: William Badwhite
  145. OT but … A game whose time has evidently come!

  146. @El Dato
    @International Jew


    That is, vaccines are made from dead viruses, aren’t they? How could a dead virus be worse than a live virus?
     
    It cannot but the principle is that the vaccine teaches your immune system something about the live virus, by presenting a recognizable part (a dead virus, or a part of the envelope).

    This is a bit of a complex procedure. What can go wrong:

    - Your immune system doesn't care and doesn't learn
    - Your immune system learns but forgets quickly
    - Your immune system learns but learns the wrong thing (in bad cases, it starts attacking some other part of your body, which may become apparent only much later; this may depend heavily on genetic makeup of the person vaccinated too, so you want to keep tracking patients and keep those statistics up-to-date)
    - Your immune system panics and goes into overdrive; you end up in the ICU (does this happen often?)
    - If the virus can reassemble itself, that may be bad

    As for production values, the vaccine production needs to be high-quality (don't want something bad slipping into the product), storage needs to be high-quality (no overheating on the tarmac), tracking from producer-to-patient needs to be high quality (no ripoff substitutions from a chinese microlab please); same as for CPUs really.

    Replies: @Travis

    sometimes the flu vaccine not only fails to prevent infections, it may increase your risk of dying from the flu.

    people who were vaccinated 3 years in a row—in the 2012-13, 2013-14, and 2014-15 seasons—appeared to have a higher risk of being infected with the dominant flu strain according to the report, published last week in Clinical Infectious Diseases….In studies published in 2010, researchers said they found that Canadians who had received a seasonal flu shot in the fall of 2008 were 1.4 to 2.5 times more likely to get an H1N1 infection requiring medical attention, compared with those who didn’t get the seasonal shot.

    Scientists can’t explain the apparent negative effects of “serial vaccination.” But the findings raise questions about standard flu vaccination recommendations, which stress getting a flu shot every year to fight off the ever-mutating viruses. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/04/study-prior-year-vaccination-cut-flu-vaccine-effects-2014-15

    this may be the reason I was so sick with H1N1 , and my family escaped infection. I had been getting the flu vaccine every year, while my wife and children avoided the vaccine and did not get H1N1 despite all of us living in the same small apartment. Since getting sick with H1N1 i stopped getting the flu vaccine and have not gotten the flu since, despite both my children both getting the flu this February (and they were both vaccinated this year).

  147. @DanHessinMD
    The Russia vaccine is likely to work well.

    SJW America doesn't function well. Congrats to Russia.

    Maurice Hilleman, the greatest doctor that nobody heard of, would have rolled out a vaccine by now.

    https://www.merck.com/stories/doctor-maurice-hilleman-father-of-modern-vaccines/

    Our trump derangement-afflicted establishment is intent to block every vaccine until after the election.

    Replies: @Anon7

    And every possible effective treatment.

    Is it true that if, for example HCQ+Zinc+Zith, actually worked, there wouldn’t be an Emergency Use Authorization for a vaccine?

  148. @vhrm
    The american MSM aren't the fourth estate they're the fifth column in America's (and the World's ) fight against corona and, well, everything.

    They don't seem to like ANYTHING other than people hiding in their homes forever regardless of any costs. Everything else is an unacceptable risk. Oh, except of course for looting, BLM and anti-police protesting, and random BIPOC parties... those things are ok.

    But, going to school? NO
    going to the park? NO
    hydroxychloroquine? NO
    herd immunity? NO
    vaccines? NO (oh, they're our only hope, but that's only when they're theoretical. ACTUAL vaccines which would allow the lockdown to end soon? say... before some random day in early November? oh no WAY too dangerous)

    Such a collection of soyboys and Negative Nancys as our current crop of reporters and columnists has rarely been seen.

    (not that we should really jump on these vaccines, because for most people they're not even necessary / worth it, and, for the people who really need them, the elderly infirm and the obese, they probably don't work well anyway.
    https://khn.org/news/americas-obesity-epidemic-threatens-effectiveness-of-any-covid-vaccine/)

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Anon7, @Franz Liszt von raiding, @Anonymous

    Journalism/advertising is increasingly a female-dominated profession. Finance and consulting going that way too.

  149. anon[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    @Gordo

    Right now, Russia is the only country with a proven human rated rocket. NASA has been paying about $100 million per seat to access ISS. Our DoD classified missions (spy satellites etc.) are launched with rockets made by ULA which use Russian engines. We won't have anything to replace Russian engines for a while, if it ever happens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180

    Replies: @anon

    Right now, Russia is the only country with a proven human rated rocket.

    No.

    NASA has been paying about $100 million per seat to access ISS.

    Not any more. Now NASA can get astronauts to the ISS via Crew Dragon on top of a Falcon rocket, launched from Cape Canaveral. Running an American made engine. It was all over the news, you can watch a vid of the launch, docking, and splashdown easily.

    Our DoD classified missions (spy satellites etc.) are launched with rockets made by ULA which use Russian engines. We won’t have anything to replace Russian engines for a while, if it ever happens.

    Lol, you are really out of date. SpaceX builds rockets and engines. That company is making bank not just from NASA but from DOD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Merlin

  150. @Anonymous
    It's already being called the "Sputnik vaccine" for the magnitude of the achievement compared to the paultry resources the Russians have to work with.

    Russia is not the most organized country. Or the most economically productive. But Russians are capable of displaying truly extraordinary levels of competence when they really want to. Besides the vaccine, Russian mathematician, Grigori Perelman, solved the Poincare Conjecture, the hardest problem in all of math that had been unsolved for 100 years. And Russia has almost twice as many Fields Medal per capita ss the U.S. And Russia has produced the greatest novelists ever.

    https://youtu.be/h24QKl5mLvY

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Russia also has that grand history and tradition of classical music

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Known Fact


    Russia also has that grand history and tradition of classical music
     
    Indeed. Where is the American Tchaikovsky, or Mussorgsky, or Stravinsky, or Prokofiev, or Shostakovich? Some of the works of Samuel Barber, Aaron Copland &c are pleasant enough to listen to, but c'mon - they're not even playing in the same ballpark.

    And the same goes for literature. With all due respect to Mark Twain et al, Dostoevsky leaves every American writer who ever drew breath far behind in the dust.

    And don't even get me started on the relative merits of Ilya Repin and the vile French faggots, soon followed by the even viler New York Schoot faggots, who turned painting from an art into a business.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

  151. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Actually, we have the necessary safeguards in place so that we do not have to “accept” the potential side effects for a vaccine rushed through the process. And there is liability on the part of American drug manufacturers if they cut corners. So your notion that we must take on the risks is nonsense. There is good reason to fear an unproven vaccine.

    Replies: @Svigor, @Hypnotoad666

    Actually, we have the necessary safeguards in place so that we do not have to “accept” the potential side effects for a vaccine rushed through the process. And there is liability on the part of American drug manufacturers if they cut corners. So your notion that we must take on the risks is nonsense. There is good reason to fear an unproven vaccine.

    I think you are missing the point.

    First, I think the covid panic is a big hoax. Therefore, I wouldn’t advocate any vaccine that had substantial risks.

    Second, if you do buy the claim that covid is a big killer then the “risk” of not “rushing” a vaccine into service is that people will die from covid while they are waiting for the “non-rushed” approval process to play out over months and years. Whether you think this is acceptable depends on how many people you believe are truly killed by covid.

    Finally, you are assuming there will eventually be no risk from a hypothetical vaccine that gets through the “safeguards.” You don’t know if any vaccine will get approved, when it will happen, how effective it will be, or how many side effects it will cause.

    If you could quantify all those estimates, you could run it through the cost-benefit analysis of deciding to go with a “rushed” vaccine. But you can’t. It’s all just speculation. Talking in non-quantitative terms about what’s “rushed” and what’s “safe” is not useful.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Except Covid 19 is not a hoax.

    Covid 19 represents a significant threat to IC units if left relatively unchecked.

    Experimental drugs go through a rigorous process for a reason. Skipping a major phase just to get it out quickly to he public for political purposes is unethical. Indeed, there will be some Covid 19 patients who would chance it regardless, but the fact remains we do not even have a baseline. We are simply to trust Putin’s word about its level of effectiveness? Again, it did not go through the recognized vetting process that other drug companies follow. Why should we give a free pass to Russia? So there is evidence given his part that the vaccine is rushed and unsafe given his past.

    There will always be risks involved. The three little pigs appreciate your strawman.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Sollipsist

  152. @theMann
    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a "novel" corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19. And this amazing "virus" has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.

    Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.


    In the meantime, the vaccines being developed are all going to "work" in the sense that they are preventing a disease that doesn't actually exist from recurring. However, and it it really is a big however, every "vaccine" in development will rely upon RNA genetic manipulation, with unforeseen and unforeseeable consequences. suppose a genetically altered "human" mates with another genetically altered "human" and produces offspring with unexpected severe genetic abnormalities.......oops. Not to mention that EVERY SINGLE LAST vaccine of this sort has shown the same results. Protection of the individual from one or two varieties of the illness, a severe worsening of response to other, similar strains of the illness. In every case the cure was literally much worse than the disease.


    So hell yes, get one of those vaccines. The world economy disintegrates at an accelerating pace, totalitarian measure amounting to war crimes are happily, willingly, embraced by entire populations in their fear of an imaginary illness, ( And for those of you who want to just keep arguing this fact, a new appearing illness sickens and kills otherwise healthy people, "covid-19" has yet to kill a single healthy person.), most people rush to embrace "vaccines" that don't work, have severe side effects, contain cells from aborted babies AND heavy metal nano-particles, but yes, you are all on the right track with this.


    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won't kill a single one of you.

    Replies: @Thoughts, @Achmed E. Newman, @Hans, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Muggles

    >>Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.

    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won’t kill a single one of you.<<

    One of the nice things about iSteve commentators and the Unz forum is the variety of opinion and sometimes remarkable bits of news and analysis offered.

    On the other hand, like this (as reflected in just a couple of sentences) we are offered near psychotic abuse. By someone seeming to suffer from both severe megalomania and angry depression. This kind of rage isn't opining, but demanding unquestioning agreement. But in the meantime, a nice heaping bowl of scorn and hatred.

    Why direct this at iSteve or his commentators?

    Time to refill that Rx. Maybe stronger this time. Or visit a pot shop. Mellow out dude. And I almost never say that…

    • Replies: @HA
    @Muggles

    "Mellow out dude. And I almost never say that…"

    Save your breath. This is the guy who is encouraging us all to form or join a militia.

    I.e, if he's not a paid stooge of the feds or of Antifa, he's one of their useful idiots, and his kind will wind up doing more damage to the people they pretend to care about than Soros/NYT/WP/SPLC ten times over.

  153. @El Dato
    @John Johnson


    Where would the US be without Von Braun?
     
    At about the same level, really.

    The US had already Goddard. It's just that nobody even knew he existed.

    One man doesn't make all that much a difference. Political oomph, in this case, creation of NASA under the nose of the infighting military and while congress was ready to go on holiday does. James Webb's management did it.

    Replies: @El Dato

  154. @El Dato
    @anonymous2space


    So weird. It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.
     
    That's the usual fate of Heroic Engineering projects. They work once, then they basically crash under their own weight because there is no _chain of production_ that is reliable and smooth enough to perform repeats at economic cost, or even any cost.

    Even the Space Shuttle was eventually abandoned when it became clear that far from being a serial lifting job, it was another Heroic Engineering with enormous unknowns and far higher risks than anyone had anticipated.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Even the Space Shuttle was eventually abandoned when it became clear that far from being a serial lifting job, it was another Heroic Engineering with enormous unknowns and far higher risks than anyone had anticipated.

    And trying to actually create a serial lift platform is the current raison d’être for SpaceX.

    Not sure how feasible that is when things like pump valves are required to be produced in a minimum Class 100 clean room.

  155. @Known Fact
    @Jack D

    The objection to masks is simple: If you do happen to believe the COVID threat or the lockdown response is being seriously oversold, then widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease. There are no other handy compelling visuals -- no bodies in the street, no lines outside hospitals, no smoking crematoriums, no sobbing relatives -- for the media or public officials to sell the story.

    Of course wearing a mask, for quick durations at least, is no big deal in crowded situations. But seeing everyone walking around with them creates a sense of submission, compliance and depersonalization. Plus there are numerous studies and explanations as to why a mask might not help or might even harm, why they might work for some cultures but noth others, and these seem to get buried, as with anything else that doesn't fit the reigning narrative.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Thank you, K.F.! Sometimes, I can’t get my thoughts into the right words. Your reply to Jack here made me think of my problem with these masks better.

    I believe this is a massive bout of stupidity brought on by a 6 month-long (with a slight intermission) Infotainment Panic-Fest (kinda like Shark-fest week). I don’t care how stupid people want to be, if it doesn’t involve coercing me to pay for it or, especially, be a part of it. Wearing the mask makes me feel like I’m a part of the stupidity, and I don’t want that.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Achmed E. Newman

    As if to prove my point, a Wisconsin state agency wants its employees to wear masks on Zoom meetings -- just to keep the visual propaganda front and center

  156. @John Johnson
    @anonymous2space

    Russia is ahead of us in the space race *right now*.

    Does anyone care?

    I never understood why so many in the US cared about the space race when we are massively in debt trying to fund egalitarian fiction. Maybe we question funding lies before putting more rockets in space.

    I can imagine a future dystopia where we put a man on mars and then the US collapses into anarchy upon his return.

    Then a Con Inc type would get teary eyed and wave a flag before being eaten by a roving cannibal gang.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    The Space Race had four benefits:

    1. Propaganda. The USSR was using their initial leads as proof that Communism was better. Beating them to the Moon ended that. Far better to spend the money on rockets when only a few died than spend the money on a deadly war.

    2. Spending wars. The Space Race, along with the Arms Race, were wars of attrition. See which side can afford to burn a lot if money. Sort of like the potlatch of the NW tribes— see who can toss away the most possessions. Again, better than spending the money on the war in Vietnam for example.

    3. Economic boost. Just the fact that a lot of money was being spent was good for the economy. One famous scientist called it “building pyramids”. Good for the economy even if the money is wasted.

    4, Technology. Here is the best benefit. It turns out the microcomputer technology developed as part of the Space Race was the foundation of the computer technology we have enjoyed these past few decades. Each dollar spent on the Space Race wound up producing many dollars of economic boost in later decades due to technological advances.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Yngvar
    @Paleo Liberal


    3. Economic boost. Just the fact that a lot of money was being spent was good for the economy.
     
    The government haven't got a dollar it didn't take from someone. And those taxpayers would have spent it too, had they been given the chance. Therefore; no boost.
  157. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble? Would you want to cover your good-looking face with a mask? Would you want young, healthy, good-looking members of the opposite sex to cover their faces?

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @the one they call Desanex


    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble?
     
    I know you're being rhetorical, but it's college move-in week here and I'm stunned by the number of young guys walking around in masks.
    , @Svigor
    @the one they call Desanex


    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble? Would you want to cover your good-looking face with a mask? Would you want young, healthy, good-looking members of the opposite sex to cover their faces?
     
    Funny, but I don't get the impression that the boomer cuckservatives and libertardians doing all the screeching about maaaaaaaassssssssssskkkkkkkkkkksssssssssssss are any of these things.
    , @ATBOTL
    @the one they call Desanex

    Boomer conservatives are the ones who won't wear masks. Young people think it's cool to wear masks in public, because it's a mild form of resistance to the surveillance state.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  158. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jack D

    Jack, the USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flt 665 in 1988, killing all 290 passengers. It was a case of mistaken identity. Did the Russians knowingly shoot down a passenger plane?

    Replies: @Muggles

    >>Jack, the USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flt 665 in 1988, killing all 290 passengers. It was a case of mistaken identity. Did the Russians knowingly shoot down a passenger plane?<<

    How quickly some forget. Or maybe you're too young.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Muggles

    Mugs, maybe I did forget, but I was born in 1946, so there is so much to remember.

  159. @John Johnson
    @Anonymous

    That is the dirty secret.

    US and Soviets played a game of who could make better use of their captured German scientists. Both sides pretended their successes were the natural result of capitalism or communism.

    Where would the US be without Von Braun?

    He and Shockley are the greats that we aren't supposed to talk about.

    Shockley changed the world but had to be buried from the public mind for calling BS on liberal lysenko beliefs.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Buffalo Joe

    John, I have a book on the aircraft of WWII. Germans had jet fighter planes and “an uninterceptable bomber”, although late in the war. If Hitler had listened to his generals instead of trying to be “the general” WWII might have been fought to a standstill.

  160. anon[303] • Disclaimer says:

    The vaccine was registered in Russia:

    So far, two rounds of testing have been launched for the vaccine, and a third is planned after registration, when authorities will offer voluntary vaccination of health-care workers and teachers. The health minister said previously that a rollout of the vaccine would start in October.

    WSJ

    This is no different that the several Western vaccines that are in phase 3 trials. So I hope it works. MSM is terrified it might work. Enormous hate for this potentially beneficial development. Media is going out of its way to portray Russia as reckless. Que bono.

  161. Ben Rhodes is only half Jewish with an Episcopal father yet he isn’t assimilated, he isn’t American. In his head it’s still the 19th century and he is still living in the Russian Pale.

    Do they really believe their psycho drama about Slavs is something other Americans should care about or do they have at least the sense of self-awareness to realise it’s propaganda? I’m not so sure anymore after the response to Trump. Do they realise other ethnicities don’t hold such intense ethnic grudges?

  162. @Redneck farmer
    Probably find it works great for 1 or 2 strains, helps with a few more, and can't protect against most COVID-19 strains.

    Replies: @Aardvark, @gcochran, @HA

    “Probably find it works great for 1 or 2 strains, helps with a few more, and can’t protect against most COVID-19 strains.”

    It depends on what you mean by protecting. Even if — despite any vaccine you receive– you wind up getting the disease, you still want to be among those lucky enough to have few symptoms. And even those previously known coronaviruses that are in the grab-bag of diseases we know as the common cold allow T-cells to fight COVID (or at least make you more likely to sail through it asymptomatically even if you do come down with it, in the way that flu vaccines can lessen the severity of a flu even in those that manage to catch it anyway).

    So, if you knew your buddy’s cold symptoms were actually due to a coronavirus (and not one of the other suspects, that don’t provide any protection), you could probably do worse than going over there and catching it yourself.

    They’re still not sure why homeless people are thus far largely asymptomatic (though in one study, 40% of those tested positive for COVID antibodies). They don’t think it’s just Vitamin D (because, surprisingly, homeless people actually tend to be lacking in that, too), so it’s the exposure to other coronaviruses that seems a likely suspect.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    @HA


    you still want to be among those lucky enough to have few symptoms
     
    That's a weird way to phrase it: it makes it seem as if you think that 'few symptoms' is something that on the lucky few experience... when 'few symptoms' is the most common experience (and by a ridiculous margin).

    Part of the problem with putting numbers around the extent of the problem is that a very very large number of people who get infected (by the virus, SARS-nCoV2), never develop any illness (at least, not that they notice).

    Being in the modal category (alternatively, being outside of the worst 10%) isn't "luck" in any meaningful sense of the word; any randomly selected individual is expected to get that outcome (when the modal category is so large, it includes the mean).

    Calling that 'lucky' is like saying that a US high school student is 'exceptional' because they got an 'A' average (47% of US high school 'graduates' get an 'A' average).

    Replies: @HA

  163. @anon
    @Buffalo Joe

    "College" is gonna be very different this year, not just moving to online but in other ways. The Big 10 schools have agreed to pool online access to classes, so someone at U Michigan can take an online course at Ohio State and get transcript credit. That's pretty good thinking, but it leads towards consolidation; who needs all those different campuses full of shiny classrooms, eh?

    Professional sports and professional entertainment have only been a part of the "scholastic experience" for the last 50 - 80 years. Get in a time machine and go back 100 years; sports then would look a whole lot more like modern intramural sports, and the concerts of those days were put on by the student body and some of the faculty.

    College as 4 - 5 years of nonstop entertainment is really a late 20th century thing. Perhaps it is a luxury that we cannot afford anymore. Most people don't need to go to college anyway.

    Item: The Big 10 has canceled its football season. We'll see what other conferences do, but this will put a big hit on college town economies, possibly affect big donors, etc. and will also have ripple effects into the NFL. Maybe there's a better use for intercollegiate athletics than as de-facto minor-league feeder to the pros?

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    OneZeroSix, my grand daughter is a sophmore at THE Ohio State. Wow, no football means a huge loss for local businesses. I was in Columbus on Michigan or Michigan State weekend. Hotels and motels sold out in a fifty mile radius. Wait times at restaurants and bars 2 to 3 hours! But, there are other college towns which will suffer too. Kent State, Bowling Green, The University of Ohio and Akron support football. And in NYS the nearby towns of Genesso, Alfred, Cortland and Brockport count on the student body to support local restaurants and stores. Huge blow to small businesses.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Buffalo Joe

    Pac-12 joins Big 10 in cancelling football this year. Maybe they will play in spring 2021.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/pac-12-joins-big-ten-in-canceling-fall-football-season-because-of-covid-19-concerns/ar-BB17Q4I6

    NCAA basketball usually begins in November, we'll see what happens this year.

    In budget terms, most (all?) big Div I sports are money losers to the uni's, but zoom out and they do make economic difference to the uni's and the towns. Donor, concessions, etc.

    Higher Ed has been in a bubble for years. It might be slowly deflating. Or maybe just *popping*.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Buffalo Joe

    And there are more than a few colleges with low to no endowments in out of the way places where they are the principal employer that probably will not survive not having students this fall. Can you say Oberlin, boys and girls?

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Buffalo Joe

    Joe,

    The two main universities here in the Roc have fall move-in scheduled over the next week.

    Can't speak to the smaller ones, haven't checked into it.

  164. @jsm
    @Anon


    5. Something that gets lost in the understandable attempt to deplatform crazy antivaxxers is that no vaccine is completely safe and every vaccine is a risk-benefit tradeoff.
     
    I would like to know, and list some specific examples, please, just who these "crazy antivaxxers" are who should be "understandably deplatformed."

    Because all the ones I've read who've been called "crazy antivaxxers," when I actually read / listened to what they said, were making the point that no vaccine is completely safe and there are risk -benefit tradeoffs (and that some of the risks of some vaccines far outweigh the benefits in general, or for specific populations in particular.)

    So WHO are you talking about?

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    It is a bit like the prisoners dilemma.

    Do you refuse the vaccine because of the infinitesimal possibility that it might kill you, or do you take the vaccine for the benefits of the whole human community, which you happen to hate?

    • Replies: @utu
    @Jonathan Mason

    Coordination and cooperation is de-emphasized in American culture. People are expected to be atomized and concerned only about their on asses. This is why the Prisoner Dilemma is so popular in American psychology and sociology. But it is the most primitive lowest level scenario:


    The Prisoner’s Dilemma, as played by two very dumb libertarians who keep ending up on defect-defect. There’s a much better outcome available if they could figure out the coordination, but coordination is hard. From a god’s-eye-view, we can agree that cooperate-cooperate is a better outcome than defect-defect, but neither prisoner within the system can make it happen. – Scott Alexander
     
    This is a chief reason why so many Americans do not get the idea behind wearing masks. Masks are not there just to protect you from immediate infection for which masks in the unmasked group are not that effective but when worn as a concerted effort reduce R0 and when the mask wearing prevalence is above 80% the virus of flu or covid can be eliminated within several weeks. Why CDC and WHO initially were so wishy washy about the masks and ended up sending a wrong message that masks do not help? Is it because they are in the pockets of the Big Pharma that prefers selling antiviral drugs and flu vaccines rather than having populations like in East Asia protect themselves with universal mask wearing response?
  165. @Muggles
    @theMann

    >>Ok, so you pathetic idiots are determined to believe this nonsense.

    70% of you morons will be dead five years from today. Covid-19 won’t kill a single one of you.<<

    One of the nice things about iSteve commentators and the Unz forum is the variety of opinion and sometimes remarkable bits of news and analysis offered.

    On the other hand, like this (as reflected in just a couple of sentences) we are offered near psychotic abuse. By someone seeming to suffer from both severe megalomania and angry depression. This kind of rage isn't opining, but demanding unquestioning agreement. But in the meantime, a nice heaping bowl of scorn and hatred.

    Why direct this at iSteve or his commentators?

    Time to refill that Rx. Maybe stronger this time. Or visit a pot shop. Mellow out dude. And I almost never say that...

    Replies: @HA

    “Mellow out dude. And I almost never say that…”

    Save your breath. This is the guy who is encouraging us all to form or join a militia.

    I.e, if he’s not a paid stooge of the feds or of Antifa, he’s one of their useful idiots, and his kind will wind up doing more damage to the people they pretend to care about than Soros/NYT/WP/SPLC ten times over.

  166. Darius Sessions calmly walked up to a five year old white boy and shot him in the head in front of the boy’s sisters. Law school graduates are working tirelessly to discover how much compensation Darius might rate for his pain and grief, and the national lyingpress is silent.
    https://abc11.com/5-year-old-shot-child-in-wilson-darius-sessoms-n/6363046/

  167. • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    @Bernard

    Not my first choice by a king shot, but I understand why.

    Replies: @Bernard

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Bernard

    The Tamil Kamel is gifted, or burdened, with two humps.

    A) She put lots of blacks in jail, so that helps with whites.
    B) She put lots of blacks in jail, so that hurts with blacks.

    I want to see how these humps dance in unison. Her hemispheres are lopsided:


    https://www.greatsayings.net/images/rhythm-in-music-sayings-by-p-j-orourke-649923.jpg


    However, this poses the same problem for Trump, in reverse. I suggest he revive the "Windsurfing" spot from 2004.

    Replies: @Lot

    , @Muggles
    @Bernard

    Jumping the gun a bit on the Dem VP pick.

    Bumpersticker idea, sent by a friend: Joe/Blow 2020

    Replies: @ChrisZ, @ChrisZ

    , @Whiskey
    @Bernard

    Very interesting. I had faith in Biden to pick someone worse. It will be fascinating to watch that ho as President.

    Replies: @Bernard

    , @Rob McX
    @Bernard

    I can imagine the selection process: "Joe, nod twice if it's Kamala!"

    Replies: @anon, @Inquiring Mind

  168. He argued further that the Soviet Union’s acquisition of MIRV technology was made possible by receiving (from US sources) machining equipment for the manufacture of precision ball bearings, necessary to mass-produce MIRV-enabled missiles. The update to the text, The Best Enemy Money Can Buy, looked at the role of military technology transfers up to the 1980s.[4] Appendix B of that text contained the text of his 1972 testimony before Subcommittee VII of the Platform Committee of the Republican Party in which he summarized the essential aspects of his overall research:

    In a few words: there is no such thing as Soviet technology. Almost all — perhaps 90–95 percent — came directly or indirectly from the United States and its allies. In effect the United States and the NATO countries have built the Soviet Union. Its industrial and its military capabilities. This massive construction job has taken 50 years. Since the Revolution in 1917. It has been carried out through trade and the sale of plants, equipment and technical assistance.

    Professor Richard Pipes, of Harvard, said in his book, Survival Is Not Enough: Soviet Realities and America’s Future (Simon & Schuster; 1984)

    In his three-volume detailed account of Soviet Purchases of Western Equipment and Technology … Sutton comes to conclusions that are uncomfortable for many businessmen and economists. For this reason his work tends to be either dismissed out of hand as ‘extreme’ or, more often, simply ignored. (p. 290)

    • Thanks: vhrm
    • Replies: @inertial
    @Sean

    "USSR used equipment possibly acquired in the US to manufacture some parts of their MIRV or whatever, and therefore there is no such thing as Soviet technology." This is even dumber than Obama's "you didn't build that." And yet, it appears to be the received wisdom in the American foreign policy establishment because they are using this logic in their anti-Russian sanctions to this day and then are very surprised when those sanctions don't work.

    But it gets even worse than that. Bright minds now want to ban China from purchasing certain American technology. Because it's not like the Chinese can spend a few years learning to manufacture those things itself and then outcompete and bankrupt American manufactures. Everyone knows that there is no such thing as Chinese technology.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sean

  169. anon[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    @anon

    OneZeroSix, my grand daughter is a sophmore at THE Ohio State. Wow, no football means a huge loss for local businesses. I was in Columbus on Michigan or Michigan State weekend. Hotels and motels sold out in a fifty mile radius. Wait times at restaurants and bars 2 to 3 hours! But, there are other college towns which will suffer too. Kent State, Bowling Green, The University of Ohio and Akron support football. And in NYS the nearby towns of Genesso, Alfred, Cortland and Brockport count on the student body to support local restaurants and stores. Huge blow to small businesses.

    Replies: @anon, @Jim Don Bob, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Pac-12 joins Big 10 in cancelling football this year. Maybe they will play in spring 2021.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/pac-12-joins-big-ten-in-canceling-fall-football-season-because-of-covid-19-concerns/ar-BB17Q4I6

    NCAA basketball usually begins in November, we’ll see what happens this year.

    In budget terms, most (all?) big Div I sports are money losers to the uni’s, but zoom out and they do make economic difference to the uni’s and the towns. Donor, concessions, etc.

    Higher Ed has been in a bubble for years. It might be slowly deflating. Or maybe just *popping*.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @anon

    OneFiveNine, college term ends in early spring so that would mean practicing in maybe February to get in 10 games by end of May? Good for those colleges with indoor training fields. Eliminate all the other sports that would need the field, such as soccer and lacrosse. I like college football better than the pro game and am a big fan of college lacrosse, but this could be the year we go without.

  170. @Known Fact
    I'd prefer the focus was on a widely effective treatment, at the prescription or even over-the-counter level. Rather than a vaccine, which is a simplistic magic bullet to some people and anathema to others and is no sure shot in any case. What game is being played when someone declares that life is on hold until a vaccine appears?

    However it happens, we're going to need an antidote for the severe risk-aversion and fear being stoked for reasons both sincere and otherwise. This no-fun zone is bad enough when you're 65, but what are we doing to young people and young adults who dearly need activities and social contact?

    Replies: @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    You are exactly correct. Americans should be more focused on early treatments and preventing the elderly from getting sick. Americans who are most concerned should be getting vitamin D and getting some excessive to keep their bodies strong , lose some weight and reduce your carbs to further reduce your risks of getting hospitalized with CV.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco

    You raise a point -- something good could still come out of all this if people focus on better diet, exercise, getting outside and so on. But other factors are pushing to keep people pinned down inside, depressed, drinking and overeating. Not that drinking and overeating doesn't have a vital role in life..

    Now the carpet is being pulled out from under fall sports. Young people especially need sports and other group activities and they are being robbed, hopefully it's just one year of their lives and not more.

  171. Anonymous[504] • Disclaimer says:

    So it’s Kamala… Not sure how this helps. It’s not that he needed help winning California. But not saying it hurts his odds, at all. Also she has neither foreign policy “experience” nor “baggage.” So this election won’t be about empire.

    If I could play Carnac about Dem strategery: this keeps the borderline suburban women on the wagon. Their social-media belief in “Defunding The Police” was always insincere anyway. Plus there is probably some Twitter person at Biden HQ who is figuring that, given Harris’s well-known undernews history of meretriciousness, thinks it will provoke “sexist” onslaught against the veep-to-be that enforces female solidarity.Probably a crapshoot, though, cuz lots of women don’t like other women who made it to the top that way. So expect a lot of Respectable Media outrage & decrying of Incel Men’s Rights Attacks On Feminism, in order to bring-up-by-not-bringing-up the landmine they’re worried about.

    But this is going to be Battle Of The Sexes election now. Unlike 1992, the media consumer might — that’s a big “might” — be more sophisticated about that ploy, however.

  172. @Jim Don Bob
    OT: Looks like BHO has stiffed his publisher after getting a $65 million advance for his and Michelle's books. His was to be done in 2018 and so far he's submitted nothing. Color me unsurprised.

    https://spectator.org/obama-book-deal-failure-to-perform/

    Replies: @Barnard, @William Badwhite, @Buffalo Joe, @Reg Cæsar

    Obama doesn’t want to do the work of writing the book himself, but doesn’t want to find a ghostwriter either. I don’t see how he gets this done, maybe he tells them he is waiting until after the election and pushed it down the road a few more months? Does the publisher have the will to go after his advance?

  173. MB says: • Website

    All smoke and distraction.
    Hydrochloroquine with zinc and anthrysomething or other already works.

    But hey, not to ruin a good scam.
    Next up a vaccine for the common flu( we already got one for the flu, right? Right?)
    Then the real deal. One for stupidity.

    I’m all for the last.
    As long as Bill G. Dr. F. and a number of other elected official takes it first.

    • Agree: Travis
  174. @Buffalo Joe
    @anon

    OneZeroSix, my grand daughter is a sophmore at THE Ohio State. Wow, no football means a huge loss for local businesses. I was in Columbus on Michigan or Michigan State weekend. Hotels and motels sold out in a fifty mile radius. Wait times at restaurants and bars 2 to 3 hours! But, there are other college towns which will suffer too. Kent State, Bowling Green, The University of Ohio and Akron support football. And in NYS the nearby towns of Genesso, Alfred, Cortland and Brockport count on the student body to support local restaurants and stores. Huge blow to small businesses.

    Replies: @anon, @Jim Don Bob, @The Wild Geese Howard

    And there are more than a few colleges with low to no endowments in out of the way places where they are the principal employer that probably will not survive not having students this fall. Can you say Oberlin, boys and girls?

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Jim Don Bob

    Jim Bob, my Jesuit college in Buffalo is laying off tenured faculty. Major stink about that and a call for the college president's head. Off the top of my head colleges are a major economic factor in the small towns of Brockport, Alfred, Geneseo, Cortland, Ithaca, Fredonia, Houghton and Geneva. All of which are within a two hour drive from here. There is also SUNY at Buffalo, SUNY Buffalo State and at least four small colleges in the city and Niagara University in the Falls and St Bonaventure in Olean. Lots of small businesses,service suppliers and landlord will be hurting.

  175. @John Johnson
    @JohnPlywood

    Indeed, virtually everything every country boasted after WW2 was either directly invented by Germans or carried over after from research and ideas that started with Germans in the early 20th century. That includes former Axis ally countries like Italy, as well. The Beretta 92, formerly the official sidearm of the US Army, is essentially a copy of the Walther P38.

    Rocketry was certainly developed by the Germans along with modern artillery tactics. The Brits had the first tank but the Germans built their army around it.

    Most gun development however comes from the US. A lot of auto-loading ideas came from a single person (John Browning).

    US born Hiram Maxim invented the machine gun after overhearing someone joke at a party that the way to get rich is to invent something that allows Europeans to cut each other down.

    The MG-42 however was certainly an impressive improvement over the Maxim and the design lives on to this day.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    John Browning contributed countless new ideas to the gun world, and Maxim’s suppressed machine gun was revolutionary.

    Germans have their own contributions, including:

    High capacity polymer-frame handguns, the basis for most modern pistols (starting with the HK VP70 ca. early 1970ies)

    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)

    Assault rifles, beginning with the Sturmgewehr-44 (whose design and cartridge was the basis for the Soviet AK and 7.62x39mm)

    Invention of both the sub machine gun and machine pistol concepts, hugely influential to Eastern European armaments

    The 9x19mm, the most common handgun cartridge still in use in the 21st century

    The rotating bolt action, as seen in the AR-15, Galil, and other military assault rifles

    …to name a few.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @JohnPlywood


    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)
     
    The British claim that theirs was the first infrared night vision device in service:

    WWII British Special Forces Night Vision Technology - "TABBY" RG Receiver
    In a couple of blogs I have briefly discussed the WWII vintage British Type K Monocular “TABBY” Night Vision Device, also known as the Receiver, RG (‘Red-Green’ Infrared, O.S. 960 G.A., ZA 23119), and its use by British Special Forces.

    These receivers were employed by Combined Operations Pilotage Parties (COPP's) from1942-1945; contained then state-of-the-art technology, equipment was 'top secret' until March 1944. existence of COPP's was classified under the Official Secrets Act until 1957; Ministry of Supply acceptance label is present, signed and dated 27 Apr 1944, with inspector's Stamp Crown/R86 and No. 1004; identical units extensively employed at Normandy, D-day 6 June 1944. My principal interest in the receiver is historical rather than technical, but as an engineer I had done limited work on laser designators and fire-control systems (Honeywell SEAFIRE System in late 70's).

    As can be inferred, the receivers were employed in the night operations of the COPPist swimmer-canoeist teams. They were principally used to aid in recovery on-board the mother Royal Navy submarines from which they had launched, following the completion of their mission in assigned operational reconnaissance areas. The submarine carried an infrared transmitter lamp (Aldis-type, but invisible to the naked eye) in the 750 - 950 nm IR wavelength, and the CV-143 receiver tube operated in the same frequency range.

    Historical Background
    The receiver represents the genesis in the application of infrared technology to military night vision. The primary infrared tube was first manufactured in 1939 and incorporated in this receiver as a military night vision device. It preceded the American M2 Sniperscope by four years.

    In the history of war technology, this is Ground ZERO for night vision development. This British Infrared Image Tube was manufactured in 1939 for use in the SUPER SECRET "Tabby" or the OS 960 GA.ZA 23119. The world's FIRST Military "see in the dark, infrared night vision device!" This unit preceded the American M2 Sniperscope, which was first issued in 1943 by four years. Incredibly, this 65 year old electronic marvel is still functional. This is an absolutely amazing piece of technological and military history!

    The ability to see in the dark, with no visible light, was a chance discovery from early Farnsworth television camera which were still in their infancy. Were the U.S. and Great Briton sharing this technology? Not likely. This was one of the most protected secrets of World War Two. It was classified "Top Secret" information. Even 10 years later in the Korean War, great secrecy surrounded the improved American M-3 Sniperscope. Strict instructions on how to destroy and bury the device were given in the technical manual so the device would not fall into enemy hands.

    https://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/2011/04/wwii-cutting-edge-night-vision.html

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NGI3_moG6vc/TbSVy2t1IUI/AAAAAAAAAHs/gJjF_oLSY7s/s320/myRG+Rcvr%253ACase+copy.jpg

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hp97I68NuOk/TbSUrEGoUVI/AAAAAAAAAHg/H35jJz1Ey4o/s1600/cv143-image+copy.jpg
     
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @JohnPlywood


    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)
     
    There is a decent Stephen Hunter novel where the Vampir is an important plot device.

    I'd add the HK MP5 as another classic German firearm. The G3 is pretty good too.
  176. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks."

    Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks. You load it up with your warm, moist, bacteria- laden breath and the bacteria have a reproductive orgy all day long, especially as your diaper marinates and ferments in your warm car.

    Facediapers are disease vectors because Diaper-Americans obsessively fondle and adjust their bacteria-infested diapers.

    Ban them NOW and impose stiff financial penalties on violators.

    Replies: @Alden

    Worse than bacteria is the fact that you breathe in less oxygen. And you breathe back in the carbon dioxide you just expelled. Do that for a leisurely walk of several city blocks and you’ll be seriously oxygen depleted and your blood will be over loaded with carbon dioxide.

  177. @Hypnotoad666
    @theMann


    And this amazing “virus” has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities.
     
    The virus is basically like a bad common cold, which can kill you only if you are so sick from other conditions that covid acts as the "straw that breaks the camel's back."

    Logically, every straw is equally responsible for the camel's broken back. But the perverted logic of the CDC/Media is that only the covid "straw" counts as "the cause."

    If covid were analyzed accurately as a merely contributory factor, rather than "the cause" of a chronically sick person's death, its true risk could be quantified pretty easily by anyone with access to the data.

    Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two. We could probably cancel out its entire negative effect by, for example, having each American agree to exercise for ten minutes a day. Wouldn't that be better than self-destructing our economy and Constitution?

    But alas, we live in an age of lying idiocracy.

    Replies: @HA

    “Logically, every straw is equally responsible for the camel’s broken back. But the perverted logic of the CDC/Media is that only the covid “straw” counts as “the cause.”

    Talk about idiocracy, how many times must we go through all this? If you just look at excess deaths — which don’t involve pretending that a motorcycle accident was caused by COVID or any other cause-of-death labeling games — the number of dead is about the same (in fact, somewhat greater). So no, while it’s true that COVID hits those with co-morbidities first, pretending that it “unfairly” gets all the credit, or however you want to phrase it, is not going to work for anyone who is paying attention.

    (And before we get another moronic round of “but it’s the lockdowns that are to blame for all those excess deaths!”, that excuse also won’t wash given that those states that have eased or done away with lockdowns saw an INCREASE in those excess mortalities. Magic/tragic lockdowns that kill people the more they’re applied — and then start killing even more when they’re eased — don’t exist outside of your heads-you-win-tails-everyone-else-loses flights of fancy, anymore than the tragic/magic dirt that is the main culprit in black people being left behind.)

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @HA


    If you just look at excess deaths — which don’t involve pretending that a motorcycle accident was caused by COVID or any other cause-of-death labeling games — the number of dead is about the same (in fact, somewhat greater).
     
    Even if you buy the excess death calculation (I don't think they calculate the baseline correctly, but whatever), and then attribute all of these to covid, it wouldn't change my point that "Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two."

    The average age of the excess deaths is 80+, and usually with comorbities to boot. For those people, getting a bad cold or normal flu would also be about as dangerous as covid.

    In fact, if you do a calculation of the total Years of Life Lost (YLL) from the dread coronavirus based on the life expectancy of its victims, it would be about the same as a bad cold or normal flu. And, as I suggested, an equal or greater number of YLL could be prevented from some easy lifestyle changes or other relatively painless alternatives.

    Making rational tradeoff decisions requires quantification and objectivity. But it's much easier to just make emotional decisions based on "150,000 dead" (out of 330 million).

    Replies: @HA

  178. @Bernard
    OT
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11/joe-biden-vp-pick-kamala-harris-393768

    My first choice, glad he did it.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    Not my first choice by a king shot, but I understand why.

    • Replies: @Bernard
    @Paleo Liberal

    As in most detrimental to his chances. She’s quite grating.

  179. anon[429] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    @Anon


    the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports
     
    That's insane.

    People just need to go back their regular lives. If you're elderly or diabetic, you know what to do--socially distance, stay home, wear masks, take Vitamin D, thank God for a good life, and get your affairs in order. If you're pre-diabetic or obese or out of shape, it's own you to change your risk profile.

    A highly cynical person might say that this disease seems custom-made to target the people who are the highest burden on our healthcare system.

    Anyhow, young people who are economically productive shouldn't organize their lives around the elderly and sick.

    Replies: @anon

    One fly in the ointment though; If you look at the wealth distribution by age, most of the wealth is weighted towards baby boomers, youngest of whom are 56 and above now. With them taken out, we will have an economy the size of of Mexico or Brazil but not pre-Covid USA.

  180. @BB753
    @Jack D

    "Putin can best be understood as the (hopefully) last Soviet leader."
    Cause you'd rather have a less sober and more pliant to US supremacy puppet president like Yeltsin?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Actually I would. I never understood the alt.right love for Putin. Even if he is great for the Russian people (and even if Putin has been a blessing to them he is a very mixed blessing at best) I am not a Russian person so I ask whether he has been good for the US and the answer has to be no.

    If Putin had the power he would certainly love to install a leader for the US who is friendly to Russian interests (and even though he doesn’t fully have that power he can at least try to influence things in that direction to the best of his ability by means covert and overt) as he (formerly) had in Ukraine and as he has in Belarus. What sort of leader would he be if he tried to install foreign leaders who were UNfriendly to the interests of HIS nation? And I think our leaders should be doing precisely the same thing.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    I never understood the alt.right love for Putin. Even if he is great for the Russian people

    [picture of Norm Macdonald's face silkscreened onto a hot air balloon]

  181. @Paleo Liberal
    @Bernard

    Not my first choice by a king shot, but I understand why.

    Replies: @Bernard

    As in most detrimental to his chances. She’s quite grating.

  182. Biden announced Kamala Harris will be his VP candidate.

  183. Remember how during the Cold War Sovietphobia was viewed as right wing paranoia
    …..?

    Whos paranoid and anti Russian this time around?

  184. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus


    Actually, we have the necessary safeguards in place so that we do not have to “accept” the potential side effects for a vaccine rushed through the process. And there is liability on the part of American drug manufacturers if they cut corners. So your notion that we must take on the risks is nonsense. There is good reason to fear an unproven vaccine.
     
    I think you are missing the point.

    First, I think the covid panic is a big hoax. Therefore, I wouldn't advocate any vaccine that had substantial risks.

    Second, if you do buy the claim that covid is a big killer then the "risk" of not "rushing" a vaccine into service is that people will die from covid while they are waiting for the "non-rushed" approval process to play out over months and years. Whether you think this is acceptable depends on how many people you believe are truly killed by covid.

    Finally, you are assuming there will eventually be no risk from a hypothetical vaccine that gets through the "safeguards." You don't know if any vaccine will get approved, when it will happen, how effective it will be, or how many side effects it will cause.

    If you could quantify all those estimates, you could run it through the cost-benefit analysis of deciding to go with a "rushed" vaccine. But you can't. It's all just speculation. Talking in non-quantitative terms about what's "rushed" and what's "safe" is not useful.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Except Covid 19 is not a hoax.

    Covid 19 represents a significant threat to IC units if left relatively unchecked.

    Experimental drugs go through a rigorous process for a reason. Skipping a major phase just to get it out quickly to he public for political purposes is unethical. Indeed, there will be some Covid 19 patients who would chance it regardless, but the fact remains we do not even have a baseline. We are simply to trust Putin’s word about its level of effectiveness? Again, it did not go through the recognized vetting process that other drug companies follow. Why should we give a free pass to Russia? So there is evidence given his part that the vaccine is rushed and unsafe given his past.

    There will always be risks involved. The three little pigs appreciate your strawman.

    • Agree: notsaying
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus


    Why should we give a free pass to Russia?
     
    They don't need a pass from us. They will do what they want, and we will see what happens.
    , @Sollipsist
    @Corvinus

    The fact that ICUs are unequipped to handle anything unprecedented is not a compelling reason to do anything but increase the capacity of ICUs.

    In the 21st Century alone, we've seen three flu seasons (and countless individual weekends) bad enough to cause major metropolitan hospitals to exceed ICU capacity. Wouldn't increasing capacity have been a logical step after the first or second time?

    I recognize the strengths of a focus on "prevention," which is a wonderful way to reduce the impact of a specific threat... but this seems to ignore the certainty that there WILL be unforeseen threats to capacity in the future.

    Is intensive care simply a bad investment that hospitals are unwilling or unable to maintain? I can understand that. But you may as well argue in favor of less driving, because infrastructure maintainance is too costly to ensure that bridges won't be increasingly likely to crumble beneath us.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  185. @Bernard
    OT
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11/joe-biden-vp-pick-kamala-harris-393768

    My first choice, glad he did it.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    The Tamil Kamel is gifted, or burdened, with two humps.

    A) She put lots of blacks in jail, so that helps with whites.
    B) She put lots of blacks in jail, so that hurts with blacks.

    I want to see how these humps dance in unison. Her hemispheres are lopsided:

    However, this poses the same problem for Trump, in reverse. I suggest he revive the “Windsurfing” spot from 2004.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Reg Cæsar

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  186. There is no exit strategy for this haphazard insanity. Once this over-reaction to a fairly innocuous infectious agent was accepted as being necessary, there’s no way to ever declare reversion to normalcy.
    In my opinion, rather than endlessly focussing on this not particularly interesting virus, coming up with creative signboards and banners restricting movement, wrecking people’s livelihoods and painting crosses on the pavement where one must stand, we should have been onto a more obvious problem by now. What if this HAD been a deadly pathogen? Why aren’t we prepared to quickly open special quarantine/treatment centers, disconnected from regular hospitals? And what are we going to do about it?
    This little rehearsal showed how unprepared we are should a real existential threat arise.
    But no, we must instead continue to waste our time, money and effort in playacting that this is a real biological crisis, and creating an actual breakdown in our way of life. We must continue to double down, because if we take ever more extreme action about corona, that will prove that the idiocy we’ve demonstrated thus far was necessary…..right?

    • Agree: vhrm
  187. Apparently they’re going to remake Fresh Prince of Bel Air but as a woke drama. Mugatu is my pharmacist.
    https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/fresh-prince-of-bel-air-reboot-series/

  188. Given the way corona virus is being handled, one would think we don’t realize that people die quite regularly, especially when they’re in bad condition. Now, we’re practically demanding that nobody should die from catching a microbe – that we should stay home and hold our breath until everyone is guaranteed to survive. Since when have we ever believed that? Is that how we built civilization? The civilization that we’re now destroying?

    There’s little reason for insulin-sensitive people – with healthy immune status and without metabolic disease – to stay home, wear a mask or ‘social distance’ themselves. Since they won’t be getting seriously ill, their staying home wouldn’t help ‘flatten the curve’ of sick people overburdening the healthcare system (as usual, to the expense of all of us). On the contrary, active healthy people can contribute something to the economy.

    The main benefit of herd immunity is that it will allow the country to function again. And that would be good for everyone, healthy and sickly alike. The metabolically/immunologically compromised will be vulnerable to catching the corona virus from anyone who’s contracted it and is temporarily contagious, no matter whether the carrier’s general health is good or poor. And that’s the same fix that people with poor immune function are in, always and everywhere. The answer for protecting these most vulnerable people from COVID – which is only one of the many dangers to their health that they face – can be one of two things; the best one being that they start eating right. And/or, we can build as much equipment and medical facilities, where they’re most needed, as they may require. Either of these solutions is much more viable, less disruptive and less expensive than what we’re doing now. And with either solution, healthier people would no longer be punished for possessing normal human vitality.
    https://thefatemperor.com/ep91-emeritus-professor-of-immunology-reveals-crucial-viral-immunity-reality/

  189. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    “I really don’t get the objection to masks.” – American cornucopia of arguments against masks in responses to your comments.

    #66 jsm: Argument form the totalitarian state position that masks make it difficult to identify and prosecute perpetrators.

    #74 Je Suis Omar Mateen: Teenagae boy objection that mask being yucky: “Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks.”

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: “Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet”

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: “Wearing a mask is a symbol…” and homophobic argument: “Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.”

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: “The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?”

    #88 Known Fact: Psychological warfare argument: “widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease.”

    #96 anon[239]:. Stating the obvious (tautological) argument: “People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica.”

    101 Achmed E. Newman: : Too long to read by the well known bore argument.

    • Agree: Alexander Turok
    • LOL: Jack D
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @utu


    homophobic argument: “Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.”
     
    If you accept homophobic as a valid word, you are the one submissive and degraded. I wouldn't accept it in Scrabble.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Anonymous
    @utu

    Homophobia is preferable to homophilia (etymologically, the love of loving the same thing everyone else loves)

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @utu

    Too long to read? It's excerpted from a great post by C.J. Hopkins, who's been doing a bang-up job on showing us the stupidity of this hysterical Kung Flu re-Panic (he, Mike Whitney, Ron Paul, Michelle Malkin all here, and E.H. Hail on his HailtoYou blog). I told Jack it would take 5 minutes. For you, maybe an hour and a half. Are you afraid of learning something that goes against your totalitarian tendencies?

    How about you wear your little face diaper and quit trying to be a control freak? America was Founded by the type of people who couldn't imagine pussies like you. Maybe you don't belong here.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    @utu

    Science proves facediapers are bacteria incubators. Yes, I as a teenager knew that warm, moist environments are bacteria incubators. I was a very smart teenager.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @utu


    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: “Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet”
     
    It isn't a strawman at all. You get wet, you can get sick. You get sick, you kill grandma; that's the very argument you hysterics are making.

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: “Wearing a mask is a symbol…” and homophobic argument: “Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.”
     
    Homophobic? You buy that? It's a BS word for a BS concept. Revulsion at homosexuality is perfectly rational. Or did Old Prude inadvertantly question your lifestyle?

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: “The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?”
     
    The fundamental law of the land is hardly infantile. You, on the other hand.................
  190. @Jack D
    @BB753

    Actually I would. I never understood the alt.right love for Putin. Even if he is great for the Russian people (and even if Putin has been a blessing to them he is a very mixed blessing at best) I am not a Russian person so I ask whether he has been good for the US and the answer has to be no.

    If Putin had the power he would certainly love to install a leader for the US who is friendly to Russian interests (and even though he doesn't fully have that power he can at least try to influence things in that direction to the best of his ability by means covert and overt) as he (formerly) had in Ukraine and as he has in Belarus. What sort of leader would he be if he tried to install foreign leaders who were UNfriendly to the interests of HIS nation? And I think our leaders should be doing precisely the same thing.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I never understood the alt.right love for Putin. Even if he is great for the Russian people

    [picture of Norm Macdonald’s face silkscreened onto a hot air balloon]

  191. @Hypnotoad666
    @dearieme


    I’m puzzled: what’s the advantage to Putin of taking a risk on this scale?
     
    Or is it a greater risk to keep waiting and waiting, and testing and testing, as is the American health care approach?

    The vaccine issue creates a bit of cognitive dissonance for the fear-mongering media. On the one hand, if the virus really was the new Black Death as they have been claiming, we should be willing to run the risk of vaccine side effects to stop it. (Especially as the pre-covid media narrative was that anyone who questioned vaccines was, by definition, a crazy "Vaxxer.")

    On the other hand, letting the virus spread because you are afraid of vaccine side effects implies that you must not believe the unchecked virus is all that bad.

    In reality, it's just a classic question of making a technical trade off between the costs and benefits of making a Type I vs. Type II error. But that would require actual facts and thinking. So it's way beyond our media's capability. (Also, it would require them to rigorously quantify the true dangers of the virus rather than fear-mongering based on fake numbers).

    Since the media can't address the issues of a new vaccine roll-out in any honest or intelligent way, expect to see a lot of nonsense based on "Russia Bad" and "Safety First" cliches.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D

    Look, there is a reason why we have the FDA act which requires that drugs must be proven to be “safe” AND “effective” before you take them. There are a lot of conditions (e.g. pancreatic cancer) that are even worse that Covid for their victims – much worse as in close to 100% mortality. But we don’t allow even people living under a death sentence to receive unproven treatments (except as part of organized and limited size trials) and for a good reason. Hippocrates said, “first do no harm”. The treatment should never be worse than the disease.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    Look, there is a reason why we have the FDA act which requires that drugs must be proven to be “safe” AND “effective” before you take them.
     
    "Safe and Effective" is just a phrase that tries to make people feel good by pretending there is no tradeoff between the two concepts. It's like passing a law that all goods must be both "cheap" and "high quality."

    For example, a vaccine that causes death in 1% of patients would be deemed "unsafe" and kept off the market. But if it would have prevented a disease with a 5% death rate then you are effectively killing 4% of the population by insisting on "safety" as an independent requirement. That doesn't sound like "doing no harm."

    Of course, the FDA and doctors can avoid legal and moral responsibility by letting the disease kill people instead of taking a risk that their treatments do. But the people are just as dead. Hippocrates notwithstanding, I believe the choice that saves more lives is more ethical.

    Replies: @vhrm

  192. @Jim Don Bob
    OT: Looks like BHO has stiffed his publisher after getting a $65 million advance for his and Michelle's books. His was to be done in 2018 and so far he's submitted nothing. Color me unsurprised.

    https://spectator.org/obama-book-deal-failure-to-perform/

    Replies: @Barnard, @William Badwhite, @Buffalo Joe, @Reg Cæsar

    Ha ha that’s awesome. What a grifter.

    Serves Random House right – I love the thought process: “here’s this lazy empty suit that’s already ‘written’ not one, but TWO books about himself. Lets give him $65mm up front for a third. What could go wrong”?

    It’s like paying your contractor in advance – they’ll never finish. Everybody knows you hold back some of the dough. Well everyone except Random House.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  193. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    The people who oppose masks are probably right that, in retrospect, this virus wasn’t that dangerous and the whole world overreacted. But where they seem to lose the plot is that a minor imposition like a mask is the exact right kind of response to a minor health threat like this. The lockdown/SIP rules and the push for an untested vaccine and talk of travel permits, these are the overreactions that are a serious infringement on our rights. The mask is just an updated version of “no shoes, no shirt, no sevice.”

  194. @Gordo

    And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    Yes they did, by stealing US technology, copying it, and reducing safety standards to save time.

    Maybe the same here, I too hope it is efficient and safe but wouldn't want to be in on the first couple of batches.

    Replies: @anon, @YetAnotherAnon

    “stealing US technology, copying it, and reducing safety standards to save time”

    The Soviets had the great advantage of not doing their space program in public, but the US didn’t have a rocket capable of launching a satellite when Sputnik went up, nor did they have one capable of orbit when Gagarin went up.

    In fact it was the US who pulled further projected sub-orbital Redstone flights after Gherman Titov spent a day orbiting the earth, and went straight to Atlas flights. At the time Gagarin went up, Atlas had only had two sub-orbital flights, one of which blew up. The third, two weeks after Gagarin, was an orbital attempt that failed and had to be destroyed.

    John Glenn was more generous than you are – “well, they just beat the pants off us“.

  195. @Jim Don Bob
    OT: Looks like BHO has stiffed his publisher after getting a $65 million advance for his and Michelle's books. His was to be done in 2018 and so far he's submitted nothing. Color me unsurprised.

    https://spectator.org/obama-book-deal-failure-to-perform/

    Replies: @Barnard, @William Badwhite, @Buffalo Joe, @Reg Cæsar

    Jim Bob, title of his book…”Reparations, I got mine!”

  196. @Muggles
    @Buffalo Joe

    >>Jack, the USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flt 665 in 1988, killing all 290 passengers. It was a case of mistaken identity. Did the Russians knowingly shoot down a passenger plane?<<

    How quickly some forget. Or maybe you're too young.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Mugs, maybe I did forget, but I was born in 1946, so there is so much to remember.

    • Agree: Muggles
  197. @Jonathan Mason
    @jsm

    It is a bit like the prisoners dilemma.

    Do you refuse the vaccine because of the infinitesimal possibility that it might kill you, or do you take the vaccine for the benefits of the whole human community, which you happen to hate?

    Replies: @utu

    Coordination and cooperation is de-emphasized in American culture. People are expected to be atomized and concerned only about their on asses. This is why the Prisoner Dilemma is so popular in American psychology and sociology. But it is the most primitive lowest level scenario:

    The Prisoner’s Dilemma, as played by two very dumb libertarians who keep ending up on defect-defect. There’s a much better outcome available if they could figure out the coordination, but coordination is hard. From a god’s-eye-view, we can agree that cooperate-cooperate is a better outcome than defect-defect, but neither prisoner within the system can make it happen. – Scott Alexander

    This is a chief reason why so many Americans do not get the idea behind wearing masks. Masks are not there just to protect you from immediate infection for which masks in the unmasked group are not that effective but when worn as a concerted effort reduce R0 and when the mask wearing prevalence is above 80% the virus of flu or covid can be eliminated within several weeks. Why CDC and WHO initially were so wishy washy about the masks and ended up sending a wrong message that masks do not help? Is it because they are in the pockets of the Big Pharma that prefers selling antiviral drugs and flu vaccines rather than having populations like in East Asia protect themselves with universal mask wearing response?

  198. @Bernard
    OT
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11/joe-biden-vp-pick-kamala-harris-393768

    My first choice, glad he did it.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    Jumping the gun a bit on the Dem VP pick.

    Bumpersticker idea, sent by a friend: Joe/Blow 2020

    • LOL: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @ChrisZ
    @Muggles

    Let me be the first to write: LOL.

    , @ChrisZ
    @Muggles

    Come to think of it, it could have been Blow/Joe 2008.

  199. @utu
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks." - American cornucopia of arguments against masks in responses to your comments.

    #66 jsm: Argument form the totalitarian state position that masks make it difficult to identify and prosecute perpetrators.

    #74 Je Suis Omar Mateen: Teenagae boy objection that mask being yucky: "Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks."

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: "Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet"

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: "Wearing a mask is a symbol..." and homophobic argument: "Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded."

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: "The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?"

    #88 Known Fact: Psychological warfare argument: "widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease."

    #96 anon[239]:. Stating the obvious (tautological) argument: "People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica."

    101 Achmed E. Newman: : Too long to read by the well known bore argument.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon

    homophobic argument: “Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.”

    If you accept homophobic as a valid word, you are the one submissive and degraded. I wouldn’t accept it in Scrabble.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Reg Cæsar



    If you accept homophobic as a valid word, you are the one submissive and degraded. I wouldn’t accept it in Scrabble.
     
    Agree. Spot on, Reg.

    "Homophobic" is a quote word. Homoaversion is what i've got. (I.e. i don't want to wallow in your sad and disgusting pathology.)

    Replies: @Bernard, @J.Ross

  200. @Jim Don Bob
    OT: Looks like BHO has stiffed his publisher after getting a $65 million advance for his and Michelle's books. His was to be done in 2018 and so far he's submitted nothing. Color me unsurprised.

    https://spectator.org/obama-book-deal-failure-to-perform/

    Replies: @Barnard, @William Badwhite, @Buffalo Joe, @Reg Cæsar

    His was to be done in 2018 and so far he’s submitted nothing. Color me unsurprised.

    What is preoccupying Bill Ayers these days? BLM? Looting?

  201. @Bernard
    OT
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11/joe-biden-vp-pick-kamala-harris-393768

    My first choice, glad he did it.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    Very interesting. I had faith in Biden to pick someone worse. It will be fascinating to watch that ho as President.

    • Replies: @Bernard
    @Whiskey


    Very interesting. I had faith in Biden to pick someone worse. It will be fascinating to watch that ho as President.
     
    We differ, she’s my top pick for worst pick. Rice is more authoritative when she speaks, Harris is shrill and unlikeable.
  202. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Except Covid 19 is not a hoax.

    Covid 19 represents a significant threat to IC units if left relatively unchecked.

    Experimental drugs go through a rigorous process for a reason. Skipping a major phase just to get it out quickly to he public for political purposes is unethical. Indeed, there will be some Covid 19 patients who would chance it regardless, but the fact remains we do not even have a baseline. We are simply to trust Putin’s word about its level of effectiveness? Again, it did not go through the recognized vetting process that other drug companies follow. Why should we give a free pass to Russia? So there is evidence given his part that the vaccine is rushed and unsafe given his past.

    There will always be risks involved. The three little pigs appreciate your strawman.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Sollipsist

    Why should we give a free pass to Russia?

    They don’t need a pass from us. They will do what they want, and we will see what happens.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  203. @Muggles
    @Bernard

    Jumping the gun a bit on the Dem VP pick.

    Bumpersticker idea, sent by a friend: Joe/Blow 2020

    Replies: @ChrisZ, @ChrisZ

    Let me be the first to write: LOL.

  204. It’s Kamala Harris!

    But the more Brown Willie jokes Steve makes, the more black males will vote for her/Biden. What will black females do?

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Yet Another, what will black females do indeed. The dem primary was moving along shedding the" not a chance in hell" candidates and offering some insights during the debates. Next primary up, South Carolina, and if we are to believe the spin, the black females went overwhelmingly for Joe and the nomination was his. I thought it would be neck and neck Biden and Sanders. I don't think Biden gains any votes because of Harris, but I think he loses some. Just my opinion.

  205. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Except Covid 19 is not a hoax.

    Covid 19 represents a significant threat to IC units if left relatively unchecked.

    Experimental drugs go through a rigorous process for a reason. Skipping a major phase just to get it out quickly to he public for political purposes is unethical. Indeed, there will be some Covid 19 patients who would chance it regardless, but the fact remains we do not even have a baseline. We are simply to trust Putin’s word about its level of effectiveness? Again, it did not go through the recognized vetting process that other drug companies follow. Why should we give a free pass to Russia? So there is evidence given his part that the vaccine is rushed and unsafe given his past.

    There will always be risks involved. The three little pigs appreciate your strawman.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Sollipsist

    The fact that ICUs are unequipped to handle anything unprecedented is not a compelling reason to do anything but increase the capacity of ICUs.

    In the 21st Century alone, we’ve seen three flu seasons (and countless individual weekends) bad enough to cause major metropolitan hospitals to exceed ICU capacity. Wouldn’t increasing capacity have been a logical step after the first or second time?

    I recognize the strengths of a focus on “prevention,” which is a wonderful way to reduce the impact of a specific threat… but this seems to ignore the certainty that there WILL be unforeseen threats to capacity in the future.

    Is intensive care simply a bad investment that hospitals are unwilling or unable to maintain? I can understand that. But you may as well argue in favor of less driving, because infrastructure maintainance is too costly to ensure that bridges won’t be increasingly likely to crumble beneath us.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Sollipsist

    "The fact that ICUs are unequipped to handle anything unprecedented is not a compelling reason to do anything but increase the capacity of ICUs."

    To the contrary, if ICU's are inundated with specifically Covid-19 patients, then what about those individuals who suffer from heart attacks/strokes, gun shot wounds, or other life-threatening conditions? Their chances for recovery are put at a significant disadvantage. Moreover, the physical and emotional toil put on medical professionals who work in an environment that is constantly shifting is stunning.

    "In the 21st Century alone, we’ve seen three flu seasons (and countless individual weekends) bad enough to cause major metropolitan hospitals to exceed ICU capacity."

    Sources? Furthermore, if true, that would be during the FLU SEASON. Notice that Covid-19 has no season.

    Replies: @Sollipsist

  206. @Cloudbuster
    @Jack D

    I’ve read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn’t see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere.

    You missed it. It's right here:

    "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    The Constitution was never intended to be an exhaustive listing of all human rights, as the authors considered that unfeasible. Instead the document, properly read, is a limitation on government power. The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Kratoklastes

    Although I hit ‘Agree’, the obvious caveat is that once the centralist scumbag Hamilton got the Elastic Clause included, he didn’t have to give a shit about the Bill of Rights.

    Best thing that happened to that prick was shortly after the smug prick tried to ‘zinger’ Aaron Burr. (The fact that 95% of the historically-ignorant 21st-century US now thinks Hamilton was a mulatto bisexual is icing on the cake for me – it’s why I don’t specifically object to “Hamilton”, instead viewing it as part of the tsunami of cultural bilge being spewed out by US’s degenerate ‘culture’)

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  207. @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666

    Look, there is a reason why we have the FDA act which requires that drugs must be proven to be "safe" AND "effective" before you take them. There are a lot of conditions (e.g. pancreatic cancer) that are even worse that Covid for their victims - much worse as in close to 100% mortality. But we don't allow even people living under a death sentence to receive unproven treatments (except as part of organized and limited size trials) and for a good reason. Hippocrates said, "first do no harm". The treatment should never be worse than the disease.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Look, there is a reason why we have the FDA act which requires that drugs must be proven to be “safe” AND “effective” before you take them.

    “Safe and Effective” is just a phrase that tries to make people feel good by pretending there is no tradeoff between the two concepts. It’s like passing a law that all goods must be both “cheap” and “high quality.”

    For example, a vaccine that causes death in 1% of patients would be deemed “unsafe” and kept off the market. But if it would have prevented a disease with a 5% death rate then you are effectively killing 4% of the population by insisting on “safety” as an independent requirement. That doesn’t sound like “doing no harm.”

    Of course, the FDA and doctors can avoid legal and moral responsibility by letting the disease kill people instead of taking a risk that their treatments do. But the people are just as dead. Hippocrates notwithstanding, I believe the choice that saves more lives is more ethical.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @vhrm
    @Hypnotoad666


    “Safe and Effective” is just a phrase that tries to make people feel good by pretending there is no tradeoff between the two concepts. It’s like passing a law that all goods must be both “cheap” and “high quality.”
     
    It's even worse than you say, imo.
    1) Not only is the tradeoff not usually addressed, neither is the fact that the line between "safe" and "not-safe" and "effective" and "not-effective" are pretty arbitrary. In reality the FDA does deal with these nuances at length in their declarations but it doesn't make it into the news articles. (e.g. chemo drugs that are in fact pretty damn harmful and not particularly effective, but they're deemed "safe and effective" because ... "hey, it's better than nothing! Probably. At least sometimes." or sunscreen chemicals where none of them have been actually shown to be safe so the only ones we use are the old ones that are grandfathered because they've been used since before the FDA really started regulating the stuff)

    2) "not safe and effective" isn't language meant to be parsed; it's used as a stamp: "Not Safe and Effective(TM)" because that's what it says in some law or regulation that the FDA is supposed to determine. It's like Caesar giving the thumbs down to a gladiator. The details don't matter it's just that you either have gotten the royal stamp or you haven't.
    With the FDA similarly it's "these people haven't groveled before us enough and they don't have any power so ... DENIED".
  208. @utu
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks." - American cornucopia of arguments against masks in responses to your comments.

    #66 jsm: Argument form the totalitarian state position that masks make it difficult to identify and prosecute perpetrators.

    #74 Je Suis Omar Mateen: Teenagae boy objection that mask being yucky: "Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks."

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: "Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet"

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: "Wearing a mask is a symbol..." and homophobic argument: "Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded."

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: "The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?"

    #88 Known Fact: Psychological warfare argument: "widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease."

    #96 anon[239]:. Stating the obvious (tautological) argument: "People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica."

    101 Achmed E. Newman: : Too long to read by the well known bore argument.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon

    Homophobia is preferable to homophilia (etymologically, the love of loving the same thing everyone else loves)

  209. @HA
    @Redneck farmer

    "Probably find it works great for 1 or 2 strains, helps with a few more, and can’t protect against most COVID-19 strains."

    It depends on what you mean by protecting. Even if -- despite any vaccine you receive-- you wind up getting the disease, you still want to be among those lucky enough to have few symptoms. And even those previously known coronaviruses that are in the grab-bag of diseases we know as the common cold allow T-cells to fight COVID (or at least make you more likely to sail through it asymptomatically even if you do come down with it, in the way that flu vaccines can lessen the severity of a flu even in those that manage to catch it anyway).

    So, if you knew your buddy's cold symptoms were actually due to a coronavirus (and not one of the other suspects, that don't provide any protection), you could probably do worse than going over there and catching it yourself.

    They're still not sure why homeless people are thus far largely asymptomatic (though in one study, 40% of those tested positive for COVID antibodies). They don't think it's just Vitamin D (because, surprisingly, homeless people actually tend to be lacking in that, too), so it's the exposure to other coronaviruses that seems a likely suspect.

    Replies: @Kratoklastes

    you still want to be among those lucky enough to have few symptoms

    That’s a weird way to phrase it: it makes it seem as if you think that ‘few symptoms‘ is something that on the lucky few experience… when ‘few symptoms‘ is the most common experience (and by a ridiculous margin).

    Part of the problem with putting numbers around the extent of the problem is that a very very large number of people who get infected (by the virus, SARS-nCoV2), never develop any illness (at least, not that they notice).

    Being in the modal category (alternatively, being outside of the worst 10%) isn’t “luck” in any meaningful sense of the word; any randomly selected individual is expected to get that outcome (when the modal category is so large, it includes the mean).

    Calling that ‘lucky’ is like saying that a US high school student is ‘exceptional’ because they got an ‘A’ average (47% of US high school ‘graduates’ get an ‘A’ average).

    • Replies: @HA
    @Kratoklastes

    "That’s a weird way to phrase it: it makes it seem as if you think that ‘few symptoms‘ is something that on the lucky few experience… when ‘few symptoms‘ is the most common experience (and by a ridiculous margin)."

    There's no need to be an ass. "Lucky" in this case means that the overwhelming majority who do not get symptoms are far, far luckier than those who die or are otherwise seriously damaged. Is that really so hard for you to understand?

    If a terrorist or a bolt of lightning picks off one kid in a crowd of hundreds, it's perfectly understandable that every one of those left unscathed will henceforth regard himself or herself as being "one of the lucky ones" on that day, given their brush with death.

    Replies: @botazefa

  210. @Hippopotamusdrome
    OT
    "AlgorithmWatch" cancels another racist AI:


    Google apologizes after its Vision AI produced racist results

    In an experiment that became viral on Twitter, AlgorithmWatch showed that Google Vision Cloud, a computer vision service, labeled an image of a dark-skinned individual holding a thermometer “gun” while a similar image with a light-skinned individual was labeled “electronic device”. A subsequent experiment showed that the image of a dark-skinned hand holding a thermometer was labelled “gun” and that the same image with a salmon-colored overlay on the hand was enough for the computer to label it “monocular”.

    In a statement to AlgorithmWatch, Tracy Frey, director of Product Strategy and Operations at Google, wrote that “this result [was] unacceptable. The connection with this outcome and racism is important to recognize

     

    Replies: @Known Fact, @AnotherDad

    In an experiment that became viral on Twitter, AlgorithmWatch showed that Google Vision Cloud, a computer vision service, labeled an image of a dark-skinned individual holding a thermometer “gun” while a similar image with a light-skinned individual was labeled “electronic device”.

    Didn’t realize AI had gotten this clever.

  211. @Bill Jones
    I see reports that Putin's daughter has been given it.

    Replies: @adreadline

    For some reason, this reminds me of the Brit politician who gave his little daughter a burger in public while the mad cow thing was going on decades ago.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @adreadline

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU7_G2grxJE

  212. @Reg Cæsar
    @Bernard

    The Tamil Kamel is gifted, or burdened, with two humps.

    A) She put lots of blacks in jail, so that helps with whites.
    B) She put lots of blacks in jail, so that hurts with blacks.

    I want to see how these humps dance in unison. Her hemispheres are lopsided:


    https://www.greatsayings.net/images/rhythm-in-music-sayings-by-p-j-orourke-649923.jpg


    However, this poses the same problem for Trump, in reverse. I suggest he revive the "Windsurfing" spot from 2004.

    Replies: @Lot

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Lot

    A Berklee alum!

  213. @HA
    @Hypnotoad666

    "Logically, every straw is equally responsible for the camel’s broken back. But the perverted logic of the CDC/Media is that only the covid “straw” counts as “the cause.”

    Talk about idiocracy, how many times must we go through all this? If you just look at excess deaths -- which don't involve pretending that a motorcycle accident was caused by COVID or any other cause-of-death labeling games -- the number of dead is about the same (in fact, somewhat greater). So no, while it's true that COVID hits those with co-morbidities first, pretending that it "unfairly" gets all the credit, or however you want to phrase it, is not going to work for anyone who is paying attention.

    (And before we get another moronic round of "but it's the lockdowns that are to blame for all those excess deaths!", that excuse also won't wash given that those states that have eased or done away with lockdowns saw an INCREASE in those excess mortalities. Magic/tragic lockdowns that kill people the more they're applied -- and then start killing even more when they're eased -- don't exist outside of your heads-you-win-tails-everyone-else-loses flights of fancy, anymore than the tragic/magic dirt that is the main culprit in black people being left behind.)

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    If you just look at excess deaths — which don’t involve pretending that a motorcycle accident was caused by COVID or any other cause-of-death labeling games — the number of dead is about the same (in fact, somewhat greater).

    Even if you buy the excess death calculation (I don’t think they calculate the baseline correctly, but whatever), and then attribute all of these to covid, it wouldn’t change my point that “Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two.”

    The average age of the excess deaths is 80+, and usually with comorbities to boot. For those people, getting a bad cold or normal flu would also be about as dangerous as covid.

    In fact, if you do a calculation of the total Years of Life Lost (YLL) from the dread coronavirus based on the life expectancy of its victims, it would be about the same as a bad cold or normal flu. And, as I suggested, an equal or greater number of YLL could be prevented from some easy lifestyle changes or other relatively painless alternatives.

    Making rational tradeoff decisions requires quantification and objectivity. But it’s much easier to just make emotional decisions based on “150,000 dead” (out of 330 million).

    • Replies: @HA
    @Hypnotoad666

    "it wouldn’t change my point that “Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two.”

    No, spikes like this are not just a cold snap or an extra pound or two. (And note that link is several months old.) If a heat wave really were taking out a hundred thousand people plus, you'd better believe it wouldn't be shrugged off as just another hot summer given that possibly the worst one in American history wound up killing less than 5,000. You're just blabbering stream-of-consciousness nonsense at this point hoping something sticks. You really think the people who won't put on a mask are going to react well to the government telling them to lose another pound to bargain away COVID's pound of flesh or whatever? So much for your so-called rational tradeoffs.

    Give it a rest. You don't have to be pro-lockdown to admit any of this. You just have to be willing to stop being a weasel. Apparently, even that is asking for too much.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  214. @siberiancat
    @JohnPlywood

    >>It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.

    Not really. Read the Boris Chertok's memoirs about the Soviet Space program. They have been translated into English

    The Russians took a very unusual strategy. They got a less prominent part of the German team. They got everything ready for mass production of V2, but never adopted it as a weapon, it only used as a prototype to establish the scientific-industrial partnerships.
    They also put an isolated German team on the development of a next-generation rocket and did not use the result. An indigenous design from Korolev was chosen.

    You have to keep in mind, Russia had her own weapon research in rocketry before the war started. They had aircraft-launched rockets and MRLs before anyone else.

    Replies: @HunInTheSun

    The combustion chamber design that the Helmut Groettrup team (“their Germans”) produced for the Soviets was incorporated into the Korolev R-7 launcher which was their first deployed ICBM and formed the basis for the Soyuz family which remains in service to this day. The Soviets and now the Russians have spent decades glossing over the fact that they have never successfully developed a man-rated launcher without German assistance.

  215. @Reg Cæsar
    @utu


    homophobic argument: “Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.”
     
    If you accept homophobic as a valid word, you are the one submissive and degraded. I wouldn't accept it in Scrabble.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    If you accept homophobic as a valid word, you are the one submissive and degraded. I wouldn’t accept it in Scrabble.

    Agree. Spot on, Reg.

    “Homophobic” is a quote word. Homoaversion is what i’ve got. (I.e. i don’t want to wallow in your sad and disgusting pathology.)

    • Replies: @Bernard
    @AnotherDad


    “Homophobic” is a quote word. Homoaversion is what i’ve got. (I.e. i don’t want to wallow in your sad and disgusting pathology.)

     

    As a straight guy with a shared fondness for the arts and style, I like to think of myself as a Homophile.
    , @J.Ross
    @AnotherDad

    I feel bad for Norm Macdonald trying to get a Weekend Update bit out of this autistic reading, and then revisiting it years later, when his audience has already bought into "the language of wood" and the idea that words should be utterly meaningless. Yes, a homophobe would be someone afraid of, say, the lead singer from Erasure, which is ridiculous.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  216. Just produce a saline shot, call it a vaccine and count all deaths from the flu as “flu deaths”.

    Problem solved.

  217. My heart goes out to that poor, poor COVID researcher fervently hoping that her team at Oxford won’t be the first to come up with a vaccine and thereby lend credence to the narrative that English “best brains” have saved our planet again.

    I mean, talk about being careful what you wish for….

  218. @Whiskey
    @Bernard

    Very interesting. I had faith in Biden to pick someone worse. It will be fascinating to watch that ho as President.

    Replies: @Bernard

    Very interesting. I had faith in Biden to pick someone worse. It will be fascinating to watch that ho as President.

    We differ, she’s my top pick for worst pick. Rice is more authoritative when she speaks, Harris is shrill and unlikeable.

  219. @AnotherDad
    @Reg Cæsar



    If you accept homophobic as a valid word, you are the one submissive and degraded. I wouldn’t accept it in Scrabble.
     
    Agree. Spot on, Reg.

    "Homophobic" is a quote word. Homoaversion is what i've got. (I.e. i don't want to wallow in your sad and disgusting pathology.)

    Replies: @Bernard, @J.Ross

    “Homophobic” is a quote word. Homoaversion is what i’ve got. (I.e. i don’t want to wallow in your sad and disgusting pathology.)

    As a straight guy with a shared fondness for the arts and style, I like to think of myself as a Homophile.

  220. @anon
    @Buffalo Joe

    Pac-12 joins Big 10 in cancelling football this year. Maybe they will play in spring 2021.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/pac-12-joins-big-ten-in-canceling-fall-football-season-because-of-covid-19-concerns/ar-BB17Q4I6

    NCAA basketball usually begins in November, we'll see what happens this year.

    In budget terms, most (all?) big Div I sports are money losers to the uni's, but zoom out and they do make economic difference to the uni's and the towns. Donor, concessions, etc.

    Higher Ed has been in a bubble for years. It might be slowly deflating. Or maybe just *popping*.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    OneFiveNine, college term ends in early spring so that would mean practicing in maybe February to get in 10 games by end of May? Good for those colleges with indoor training fields. Eliminate all the other sports that would need the field, such as soccer and lacrosse. I like college football better than the pro game and am a big fan of college lacrosse, but this could be the year we go without.

  221. @Hypnotoad666
    @HA


    If you just look at excess deaths — which don’t involve pretending that a motorcycle accident was caused by COVID or any other cause-of-death labeling games — the number of dead is about the same (in fact, somewhat greater).
     
    Even if you buy the excess death calculation (I don't think they calculate the baseline correctly, but whatever), and then attribute all of these to covid, it wouldn't change my point that "Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two."

    The average age of the excess deaths is 80+, and usually with comorbities to boot. For those people, getting a bad cold or normal flu would also be about as dangerous as covid.

    In fact, if you do a calculation of the total Years of Life Lost (YLL) from the dread coronavirus based on the life expectancy of its victims, it would be about the same as a bad cold or normal flu. And, as I suggested, an equal or greater number of YLL could be prevented from some easy lifestyle changes or other relatively painless alternatives.

    Making rational tradeoff decisions requires quantification and objectivity. But it's much easier to just make emotional decisions based on "150,000 dead" (out of 330 million).

    Replies: @HA

    “it wouldn’t change my point that “Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two.”

    No, spikes like this are not just a cold snap or an extra pound or two. (And note that link is several months old.) If a heat wave really were taking out a hundred thousand people plus, you’d better believe it wouldn’t be shrugged off as just another hot summer given that possibly the worst one in American history wound up killing less than 5,000. You’re just blabbering stream-of-consciousness nonsense at this point hoping something sticks. You really think the people who won’t put on a mask are going to react well to the government telling them to lose another pound to bargain away COVID’s pound of flesh or whatever? So much for your so-called rational tradeoffs.

    Give it a rest. You don’t have to be pro-lockdown to admit any of this. You just have to be willing to stop being a weasel. Apparently, even that is asking for too much.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @HA

    All I am saying is that we need to quantify the actual cost of allowing the coronavirus to spread in order to make correct policy judgments. Only a moron would argue against that. And you are indeed a moron.

    You have nothing intelligent or useful to say. What would you do to prevent the virus spread? How would you decide if it's a good investment? You don't know and can't say how you'd decide.

    You just know it's an important issue. Good for you. You're very smart. Now shut up until you have something useful to say.

    Maybe you should get out spreadsheet and figure out how much the 1936 heatwave increased the weekly mortality rate and compare it to the increased weekly mortality in 2020 allegedly due to coronavirus.

    Replies: @HA

  222. @Jim Don Bob
    @Buffalo Joe

    And there are more than a few colleges with low to no endowments in out of the way places where they are the principal employer that probably will not survive not having students this fall. Can you say Oberlin, boys and girls?

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Jim Bob, my Jesuit college in Buffalo is laying off tenured faculty. Major stink about that and a call for the college president’s head. Off the top of my head colleges are a major economic factor in the small towns of Brockport, Alfred, Geneseo, Cortland, Ithaca, Fredonia, Houghton and Geneva. All of which are within a two hour drive from here. There is also SUNY at Buffalo, SUNY Buffalo State and at least four small colleges in the city and Niagara University in the Falls and St Bonaventure in Olean. Lots of small businesses,service suppliers and landlord will be hurting.

  223. @Matt Buckalew
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Sure but in making that argument you are basically telling everyone you are Hungarian which means you better be able to at least fake being Hungarian nobility or else the status hit you take can’t possibly be worth it.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  224. @Sean

    He argued further that the Soviet Union's acquisition of MIRV technology was made possible by receiving (from US sources) machining equipment for the manufacture of precision ball bearings, necessary to mass-produce MIRV-enabled missiles. The update to the text, The Best Enemy Money Can Buy, looked at the role of military technology transfers up to the 1980s.[4] Appendix B of that text contained the text of his 1972 testimony before Subcommittee VII of the Platform Committee of the Republican Party in which he summarized the essential aspects of his overall research:

    In a few words: there is no such thing as Soviet technology. Almost all — perhaps 90–95 percent — came directly or indirectly from the United States and its allies. In effect the United States and the NATO countries have built the Soviet Union. Its industrial and its military capabilities. This massive construction job has taken 50 years. Since the Revolution in 1917. It has been carried out through trade and the sale of plants, equipment and technical assistance.
     
    Professor Richard Pipes, of Harvard, said in his book, Survival Is Not Enough: Soviet Realities and America's Future (Simon & Schuster; 1984)

    In his three-volume detailed account of Soviet Purchases of Western Equipment and Technology ... Sutton comes to conclusions that are uncomfortable for many businessmen and economists. For this reason his work tends to be either dismissed out of hand as 'extreme' or, more often, simply ignored. (p. 290)
     

     

    Replies: @inertial

    “USSR used equipment possibly acquired in the US to manufacture some parts of their MIRV or whatever, and therefore there is no such thing as Soviet technology.” This is even dumber than Obama’s “you didn’t build that.” And yet, it appears to be the received wisdom in the American foreign policy establishment because they are using this logic in their anti-Russian sanctions to this day and then are very surprised when those sanctions don’t work.

    But it gets even worse than that. Bright minds now want to ban China from purchasing certain American technology. Because it’s not like the Chinese can spend a few years learning to manufacture those things itself and then outcompete and bankrupt American manufactures. Everyone knows that there is no such thing as Chinese technology.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @inertial

    The Soviets resemble the Chinese in that they had no qualms about stealing technology if they were not able to purchase or license it. Yes they developed some technology of their own but because Americans suck at espionage the technology transfer was all in one direction. This saved the Soviets years and years of R&D as well as billions of $ that they did not have. Could the Russians have developed all of their technology domestically without stealing it from the West? Maybe, if they had enough time and $ but stealing it was a really nice shortcut.

    , @Sean
    @inertial

    https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/styles/desktop__1260_/public/main_images/2017-11-29t222847z_141744_rc1c41d2e920_rtrmadp_3_northkorea-missiles.jpg?itok=-S-27bWN


    If we give Russia technology they will only sell it to China. North Korea built a Magnox nuclear reactor after the UK declassified the plans for the obsolete design. Trump gets elected and all of a sudden the North Koreans have a colossal ICBM that can hit the continental US and is a MIRV platform, plus Kim is launching satellites.


    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/04/13/salvaged-parts-show-chinese-firms-supplied-key-components-for-north-koreas-rocket-program.html
     
    Kim is Xi's cat's paw, put into cold storage because re-election of Trump is looking unlikely. No one is interested in Russia as such except superannuated Deep Staters. There are villages in Russia that look like something out of the 19th century, and there are precious few all weather roads East of Moscow.

    You want to repeat the mistake of the West with the Soviet Union. Anti communists like Nixon got into shouting matches with Kruschev over washing machines, but never cut off the technology. Only Reagan did that, and the Soviet Union, which had actual military superiority over the US in the Carter era promptly collapsed.


    https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/brendan-simms-biography-adolf-hitler-what-dictator-thinking/

    There was a clear hierarchy of enemies in Hitler’s mind, and the threat posed by the Soviet Union and communism was by no means as serious as the threat posed by the British empire or the United States. You can see this in the distribution of German resources during the Second World War, which runs contrary to many things you might read about the overall importance of the eastern front. By the end of 1943 at the latest, the majority of the German war effort was dedicated to fighting the so-called ‘Anglo-Saxons’, and in 1944–45 the preponderance was greater still. The western allies absorbed the larger share of Hitler’s intellectual and rhetorical bandwidth, right to the very end.
     

    Replies: @BB753

  225. @Kratoklastes
    @HA


    you still want to be among those lucky enough to have few symptoms
     
    That's a weird way to phrase it: it makes it seem as if you think that 'few symptoms' is something that on the lucky few experience... when 'few symptoms' is the most common experience (and by a ridiculous margin).

    Part of the problem with putting numbers around the extent of the problem is that a very very large number of people who get infected (by the virus, SARS-nCoV2), never develop any illness (at least, not that they notice).

    Being in the modal category (alternatively, being outside of the worst 10%) isn't "luck" in any meaningful sense of the word; any randomly selected individual is expected to get that outcome (when the modal category is so large, it includes the mean).

    Calling that 'lucky' is like saying that a US high school student is 'exceptional' because they got an 'A' average (47% of US high school 'graduates' get an 'A' average).

    Replies: @HA

    “That’s a weird way to phrase it: it makes it seem as if you think that ‘few symptoms‘ is something that on the lucky few experience… when ‘few symptoms‘ is the most common experience (and by a ridiculous margin).”

    There’s no need to be an ass. “Lucky” in this case means that the overwhelming majority who do not get symptoms are far, far luckier than those who die or are otherwise seriously damaged. Is that really so hard for you to understand?

    If a terrorist or a bolt of lightning picks off one kid in a crowd of hundreds, it’s perfectly understandable that every one of those left unscathed will henceforth regard himself or herself as being “one of the lucky ones” on that day, given their brush with death.

    • Replies: @botazefa
    @HA


    If a terrorist or a bolt of lightning picks off one kid in a crowd of hundreds, it’s perfectly understandable that every one of those left unscathed will henceforth regard himself or herself as being “one of the lucky ones” on that day, given their brush with death.
     
    As one of the 7 billion who wasn't struck, I don't feel lucky that particular bolt didn't hit me. Why would I?

    Covid-19 kills very few, relatively. To be symptomatic is very unlucky. Maybe that's more in line with what you intended to convey?

    Replies: @HA

  226. @Svigor
    @Achmed E. Newman

    When I think about the gov't asking, and in some cases even demanding that the people wear masks that heavily interfere with the corporate tyranny's tech companies' facial recognition software, I start shaking, literally shaking, with rage.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Now, see, there’s a guy that finds the silver lining in everything. Svigor, I completely agree that this asking or demanding (of those who are compliant) of the wearing of face masks has that benefit. Especially under the Anarcho-Tyranny we have, with the antifa Commies getting no prosecution while the Proud Boys got 4 years in jail for defending themselves, we don’t have to let this “crisis” go completely to waste ourselves.

    Anyone against the antifa should be the first to mask up were he ready to cause trouble or have it out with these antifa faggots. That, a few Sharpie marks, a bandaid (you know, cuts from shaving… your eyebrows), and a small hex-nut in one shoe to change your gait, would be the way to start off.

    What a weird world it’s become. Big Brother who is almost omniscient now due to electronics, on the one hand wants to watch us anytime, anywhere. On the other hand, Big Brother demands we cover our faces just so he can get us in the habit of being told what to do any other time, based on hyped-up hysteria. Big Brother is either retarded or bipolar, one.

    .

    (I’ve brought your point up in the iSteve threads before. Mr. Sailer is for laws against wearing masks for disguise. I don’t agree. However, what’s the point of that argument now, when they are required.)

  227. @HA
    @Hypnotoad666

    "it wouldn’t change my point that “Covid would probably be quantified as statistically about as dangerous as a cold snap or heat wave in the weather, or as gaining an extra pound or two.”

    No, spikes like this are not just a cold snap or an extra pound or two. (And note that link is several months old.) If a heat wave really were taking out a hundred thousand people plus, you'd better believe it wouldn't be shrugged off as just another hot summer given that possibly the worst one in American history wound up killing less than 5,000. You're just blabbering stream-of-consciousness nonsense at this point hoping something sticks. You really think the people who won't put on a mask are going to react well to the government telling them to lose another pound to bargain away COVID's pound of flesh or whatever? So much for your so-called rational tradeoffs.

    Give it a rest. You don't have to be pro-lockdown to admit any of this. You just have to be willing to stop being a weasel. Apparently, even that is asking for too much.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    All I am saying is that we need to quantify the actual cost of allowing the coronavirus to spread in order to make correct policy judgments. Only a moron would argue against that. And you are indeed a moron.

    You have nothing intelligent or useful to say. What would you do to prevent the virus spread? How would you decide if it’s a good investment? You don’t know and can’t say how you’d decide.

    You just know it’s an important issue. Good for you. You’re very smart. Now shut up until you have something useful to say.

    Maybe you should get out spreadsheet and figure out how much the 1936 heatwave increased the weekly mortality rate and compare it to the increased weekly mortality in 2020 allegedly due to coronavirus.

    • Replies: @HA
    @Hypnotoad666

    "All I am saying is that we need to quantify the actual cost of allowing the coronavirus to spread in order to make correct policy judgments."

    Don't flatter yourself. You're just throwing up whatever stupid objection pops into your head, be it pretending this is no worse than a cold snap, or heat spike, or an added pound or two. It's there in black and white even if your memory is as bad as your reasoning. You're once again trotting out the old "it's just badly labeled cause-of-death" conspiracy even though that's no longer tenable (not that it ever was). You're once again resorting to cheap strawman arguments (I don't recall anyone claiming it's the "new Black Death" and a simple internet search backs me up on that, though your results may differ).

    You don't include any facts or figures or actual calculations. I did. To the extent that there's any difference in usefulness between us, keep that one in mind because it speaks volumes. Sure, the fact that I'm trying to back up what I say means I'll be far more mum than someone who thinks his every stupid and already-discredited proposal or objection is worth spouting again, as if it sere a cloud of ink squirted by a squid when it sees it has been cornered. Don't pretend there's anything useful in that. And yet you think I'm the one who needs to lay down a spreadsheet? Yeah, I'll get right on that.

    You don't have to provide an answer as to what to do about this virus, given that no sane person would listen to it at this point given how wrong you've been. But what you can do once you're willing to admit that you're not the expert you fancy yourself to be is at least stop digging yourself in deeper. Though again, I expect that even that is asking for too much.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  228. @utu
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks." - American cornucopia of arguments against masks in responses to your comments.

    #66 jsm: Argument form the totalitarian state position that masks make it difficult to identify and prosecute perpetrators.

    #74 Je Suis Omar Mateen: Teenagae boy objection that mask being yucky: "Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks."

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: "Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet"

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: "Wearing a mask is a symbol..." and homophobic argument: "Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded."

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: "The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?"

    #88 Known Fact: Psychological warfare argument: "widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease."

    #96 anon[239]:. Stating the obvious (tautological) argument: "People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica."

    101 Achmed E. Newman: : Too long to read by the well known bore argument.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon

    Too long to read? It’s excerpted from a great post by C.J. Hopkins, who’s been doing a bang-up job on showing us the stupidity of this hysterical Kung Flu re-Panic (he, Mike Whitney, Ron Paul, Michelle Malkin all here, and E.H. Hail on his HailtoYou blog). I told Jack it would take 5 minutes. For you, maybe an hour and a half. Are you afraid of learning something that goes against your totalitarian tendencies?

    How about you wear your little face diaper and quit trying to be a control freak? America was Founded by the type of people who couldn’t imagine pussies like you. Maybe you don’t belong here.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Achmed E. Newman

    America's Founders according to Achmed:

    https://quipvid.com/watch/xwnndqaw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdKumkP50Lo

  229. @YetAnotherAnon
    It's Kamala Harris!

    But the more Brown Willie jokes Steve makes, the more black males will vote for her/Biden. What will black females do?

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Yet Another, what will black females do indeed. The dem primary was moving along shedding the” not a chance in hell” candidates and offering some insights during the debates. Next primary up, South Carolina, and if we are to believe the spin, the black females went overwhelmingly for Joe and the nomination was his. I thought it would be neck and neck Biden and Sanders. I don’t think Biden gains any votes because of Harris, but I think he loses some. Just my opinion.

  230. @El Dato
    @theMann


    So, a SARS flu virus got somehow smashed together with a “novel” corona virus into the dread beast we refer to as Covid-19.
     
    Not at all. Where do you people get that stuff?

    And this amazing “virus” has a consistent pattern of only killing sick old people, or a tiny,tiny selection of others with severe co-morbidities. Chemically impossible for the virus to exist, biologically impossible to kill only sick old people.
     
    This makes no sense front, back and bottom. Review your assumptions.

    Replies: @theMann

  231. @JohnPlywood
    @John Johnson

    John Browning contributed countless new ideas to the gun world, and Maxim's suppressed machine gun was revolutionary.

    Germans have their own contributions, including:

    High capacity polymer-frame handguns, the basis for most modern pistols (starting with the HK VP70 ca. early 1970ies)

    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)

    Assault rifles, beginning with the Sturmgewehr-44 (whose design and cartridge was the basis for the Soviet AK and 7.62x39mm)


    Invention of both the sub machine gun and machine pistol concepts, hugely influential to Eastern European armaments

    The 9x19mm, the most common handgun cartridge still in use in the 21st century

    The rotating bolt action, as seen in the AR-15, Galil, and other military assault rifles


    ...to name a few.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @The Wild Geese Howard

    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)

    The British claim that theirs was the first infrared night vision device in service:

    WWII British Special Forces Night Vision Technology – “TABBY” RG Receiver
    In a couple of blogs I have briefly discussed the WWII vintage British Type K Monocular “TABBY” Night Vision Device, also known as the Receiver, RG (‘Red-Green’ Infrared, O.S. 960 G.A., ZA 23119), and its use by British Special Forces.

    These receivers were employed by Combined Operations Pilotage Parties (COPP’s) from1942-1945; contained then state-of-the-art technology, equipment was ‘top secret’ until March 1944. existence of COPP’s was classified under the Official Secrets Act until 1957; Ministry of Supply acceptance label is present, signed and dated 27 Apr 1944, with inspector’s Stamp Crown/R86 and No. 1004; identical units extensively employed at Normandy, D-day 6 June 1944. My principal interest in the receiver is historical rather than technical, but as an engineer I had done limited work on laser designators and fire-control systems (Honeywell SEAFIRE System in late 70’s).

    As can be inferred, the receivers were employed in the night operations of the COPPist swimmer-canoeist teams. They were principally used to aid in recovery on-board the mother Royal Navy submarines from which they had launched, following the completion of their mission in assigned operational reconnaissance areas. The submarine carried an infrared transmitter lamp (Aldis-type, but invisible to the naked eye) in the 750 – 950 nm IR wavelength, and the CV-143 receiver tube operated in the same frequency range.

    Historical Background
    The receiver represents the genesis in the application of infrared technology to military night vision. The primary infrared tube was first manufactured in 1939 and incorporated in this receiver as a military night vision device. It preceded the American M2 Sniperscope by four years.

    In the history of war technology, this is Ground ZERO for night vision development. This British Infrared Image Tube was manufactured in 1939 for use in the SUPER SECRET “Tabby” or the OS 960 GA.ZA 23119. The world’s FIRST Military “see in the dark, infrared night vision device!” This unit preceded the American M2 Sniperscope, which was first issued in 1943 by four years. Incredibly, this 65 year old electronic marvel is still functional. This is an absolutely amazing piece of technological and military history!

    The ability to see in the dark, with no visible light, was a chance discovery from early Farnsworth television camera which were still in their infancy. Were the U.S. and Great Briton sharing this technology? Not likely. This was one of the most protected secrets of World War Two. It was classified “Top Secret” information. Even 10 years later in the Korean War, great secrecy surrounded the improved American M-3 Sniperscope. Strict instructions on how to destroy and bury the device were given in the technical manual so the device would not fall into enemy hands.

    https://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/2011/04/wwii-cutting-edge-night-vision.html

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hp97I68NuOk/TbSUrEGoUVI/AAAAAAAAAHg/H35jJz1Ey4o/s1600/cv143-image+copy.jpg

  232. @AnotherDad
    @Reg Cæsar



    If you accept homophobic as a valid word, you are the one submissive and degraded. I wouldn’t accept it in Scrabble.
     
    Agree. Spot on, Reg.

    "Homophobic" is a quote word. Homoaversion is what i've got. (I.e. i don't want to wallow in your sad and disgusting pathology.)

    Replies: @Bernard, @J.Ross

    I feel bad for Norm Macdonald trying to get a Weekend Update bit out of this autistic reading, and then revisiting it years later, when his audience has already bought into “the language of wood” and the idea that words should be utterly meaningless. Yes, a homophobe would be someone afraid of, say, the lead singer from Erasure, which is ridiculous.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @J.Ross


    Yes, a homophobe would be someone afraid of, say, the lead singer from Erasure, which is ridiculous.
     
    A literal homophobe would fear his twin brother.


    https://previews.123rf.com/images/birute/birute1805/birute180500044/102021446-bas-relief-of-romulus-and-remus-suckling-the-she-wolf-on-the-house-la-louve-the-grand-place-the-cent.jpg
  233. @the one they call Desanex
    @Jack D

    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble? Would you want to cover your good-looking face with a mask? Would you want young, healthy, good-looking members of the opposite sex to cover their faces?

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Svigor, @ATBOTL

    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble?

    I know you’re being rhetorical, but it’s college move-in week here and I’m stunned by the number of young guys walking around in masks.

  234. @Anonymous
    @JohnPlywood

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia’s space program.
     

    And America's: the US did not get into space without a great deal of German help.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip#Key_recruits

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Replies: @JohnPlywood, @PiltdownMan, @GoVadgers, @Peter Lund, @John Johnson, @Milo Minderbinder, @Captain Tripps, @Reg Cæsar

    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).

    Yes, and the nuclear race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their Jewish scientists and technicians.

    The Germans blew that, and China and India were the first exceptions. Both are gigantic with enormous smart fractions and millennia of experience with mathematics. In their case, Jews were optional.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Reg Cæsar

    Jewish angle in making the bomb is both overrated & underrated. It is true that some Jewish persons who later achieved fame, both American-born & imported (Feynman, Schwinger, Szilard, von Neumann, Wigner, Ulam,...) were truly important, but also were American Gentiles (Seaborg, McMillan, Urey, Lawrence, Bush..) as well as others (Fermi ...).

    I am not too knowledgeable about details of the now mythic tale, but it seems to me that most big names, Gentile & Jewish, were not of primary importance (with some exceptions). The uncanny advantage US had had was money, resources, focus & isolation. Germans would have done if they had a few years of peace on their soil, more resources & clear focus.

    On the other hand, a counter-argument would be that team Germany did not achieve much after the war, while team US did (Schwinger, Feynman, McMillan, Ulam,...). Also, my notion about the topic may be skewed due to the lack of interest: my impression is that Feynman, despite all the noise, did not contribute much. Others' claims are contradictory: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2014/06/06/feynman-and-the-bomb/

    Replies: @Jack D

  235. @Buffalo Joe
    @anon

    OneZeroSix, my grand daughter is a sophmore at THE Ohio State. Wow, no football means a huge loss for local businesses. I was in Columbus on Michigan or Michigan State weekend. Hotels and motels sold out in a fifty mile radius. Wait times at restaurants and bars 2 to 3 hours! But, there are other college towns which will suffer too. Kent State, Bowling Green, The University of Ohio and Akron support football. And in NYS the nearby towns of Genesso, Alfred, Cortland and Brockport count on the student body to support local restaurants and stores. Huge blow to small businesses.

    Replies: @anon, @Jim Don Bob, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Joe,

    The two main universities here in the Roc have fall move-in scheduled over the next week.

    Can’t speak to the smaller ones, haven’t checked into it.

  236. @JohnPlywood
    @John Johnson

    John Browning contributed countless new ideas to the gun world, and Maxim's suppressed machine gun was revolutionary.

    Germans have their own contributions, including:

    High capacity polymer-frame handguns, the basis for most modern pistols (starting with the HK VP70 ca. early 1970ies)

    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)

    Assault rifles, beginning with the Sturmgewehr-44 (whose design and cartridge was the basis for the Soviet AK and 7.62x39mm)


    Invention of both the sub machine gun and machine pistol concepts, hugely influential to Eastern European armaments

    The 9x19mm, the most common handgun cartridge still in use in the 21st century

    The rotating bolt action, as seen in the AR-15, Galil, and other military assault rifles


    ...to name a few.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @The Wild Geese Howard

    The earliest use of infrared night vision optics in the late 1930ies and early 1940ies (the Vampir ZG1229 being the most notorious example, yet still widely unknown)

    There is a decent Stephen Hunter novel where the Vampir is an important plot device.

    I’d add the HK MP5 as another classic German firearm. The G3 is pretty good too.

  237. @Known Fact
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    He was holding the thermometer sideways

    Replies: @Rob McX

    Also he kept missing the orifice he was supposed to put it into.

  238. The USA has three or four vaccines.

    We are testing them before giving them out.

    Remember Thalidomide?

  239. @HammerJack
    @anonymous2space


    So weird. It’s almost as if it’s an extremely strange aberration that we magically went to the moon a half dozen times when we’re completely unable to 50 years later.
     
    "This is your nation on Immigration and Diversity"

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal

    I am a big immigration hawk, but that is silly.

    We wouldn’t have gotten to the Moon were it not for immigrants. Especially German scientist immigrants.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @Paleo Liberal

    For whatever reason, you are mixing up "few but carefully selected immigrants" with "tens of millions of third-world refuse" though these are opposites and only the second phrase describes our policy since 1965.

  240. @Hypnotoad666
    @HA

    All I am saying is that we need to quantify the actual cost of allowing the coronavirus to spread in order to make correct policy judgments. Only a moron would argue against that. And you are indeed a moron.

    You have nothing intelligent or useful to say. What would you do to prevent the virus spread? How would you decide if it's a good investment? You don't know and can't say how you'd decide.

    You just know it's an important issue. Good for you. You're very smart. Now shut up until you have something useful to say.

    Maybe you should get out spreadsheet and figure out how much the 1936 heatwave increased the weekly mortality rate and compare it to the increased weekly mortality in 2020 allegedly due to coronavirus.

    Replies: @HA

    “All I am saying is that we need to quantify the actual cost of allowing the coronavirus to spread in order to make correct policy judgments.”

    Don’t flatter yourself. You’re just throwing up whatever stupid objection pops into your head, be it pretending this is no worse than a cold snap, or heat spike, or an added pound or two. It’s there in black and white even if your memory is as bad as your reasoning. You’re once again trotting out the old “it’s just badly labeled cause-of-death” conspiracy even though that’s no longer tenable (not that it ever was). You’re once again resorting to cheap strawman arguments (I don’t recall anyone claiming it’s the “new Black Death” and a simple internet search backs me up on that, though your results may differ).

    You don’t include any facts or figures or actual calculations. I did. To the extent that there’s any difference in usefulness between us, keep that one in mind because it speaks volumes. Sure, the fact that I’m trying to back up what I say means I’ll be far more mum than someone who thinks his every stupid and already-discredited proposal or objection is worth spouting again, as if it sere a cloud of ink squirted by a squid when it sees it has been cornered. Don’t pretend there’s anything useful in that. And yet you think I’m the one who needs to lay down a spreadsheet? Yeah, I’ll get right on that.

    You don’t have to provide an answer as to what to do about this virus, given that no sane person would listen to it at this point given how wrong you’ve been. But what you can do once you’re willing to admit that you’re not the expert you fancy yourself to be is at least stop digging yourself in deeper. Though again, I expect that even that is asking for too much.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @HA

    The whole point of my post is that we need to quantify the cost. I said if we did so correctly it "probably" or "likely" would show that it's not great enough to justify the various freakout measures. So I obviously wasn't purporting to have run those calculations myself.

    I never even said the specific number of listed deaths was wrong -- but that it had to be measured as a "contributory" factor not the sole cause. Later, as I explained, the nature of the excess deaths (mostly 80+ yo and sick) is what lowers the YLL "cost"of the coronavirus. Whether you look at each death as only partly caused by coronavirus, or if you adjust the total deaths by life expectancy aside from the virus, it's just two different ways of measuring the same thing -- the total cost in lives.

    I know you read somewhere that the "excess death" numbers supposedly "debunk" any overcount in total deaths. So you wanted to apply your one idea.

    But you gave "no facts and figures" to challenge my main point (the cost in lives is not as high as it seems), just a link to an excess death article and a Wikipedia entry on the 1936 heat wave.

    You need to curb your annoying arrogance and name calling. If you can't do that then get the fuck off this board, we don't need that here.

  241. @JohnPlywood

    But I hope these heroic Russians pull it off. And they might do it: after all, they won the first two legs of the Space Race.
     
    No they didn't.

    It was Germans who were the brains behind Russia's space program.

    https://warontherocks.com/2019/10/the-forgotten-rocketeers-german-scientists-in-the-soviet-union-1945-1959/

    Replies: @International Jew, @Anonymous, @Bardon Kaldian, @Tom-in-VA, @siberiancat, @S. Anonyia

    I mean weren’t they the brains behind ours, too? American engineers (mostly Southerners like my great-uncles who worked for NASA in its heyday) just implemented their plans…

  242. @Bernard
    OT
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11/joe-biden-vp-pick-kamala-harris-393768

    My first choice, glad he did it.

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    I can imagine the selection process: “Joe, nod twice if it’s Kamala!

    • Replies: @anon
    @Rob McX

    Or they could bring the girls in one by one and let blindfolded Joe touch and smell their hair, then pick the one he likes the most. That would be one way to wind up with Kamasutra.

    , @Inquiring Mind
    @Rob McX

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menagerie_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series)#/media/File:ST_TheMenagerie.jpg

    Candidate Biden after exposure to delta radiation.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  243. @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    @Known Fact

    You are exactly correct. Americans should be more focused on early treatments and preventing the elderly from getting sick. Americans who are most concerned should be getting vitamin D and getting some excessive to keep their bodies strong , lose some weight and reduce your carbs to further reduce your risks of getting hospitalized with CV.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    You raise a point — something good could still come out of all this if people focus on better diet, exercise, getting outside and so on. But other factors are pushing to keep people pinned down inside, depressed, drinking and overeating. Not that drinking and overeating doesn’t have a vital role in life..

    Now the carpet is being pulled out from under fall sports. Young people especially need sports and other group activities and they are being robbed, hopefully it’s just one year of their lives and not more.

  244. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Americans love winners too – see Vince Lombardi...
     
    Americans outside Wisconsin (and the UP) did not love Lombardi. At least until he retired-- or died, whichever came first. Cf. # 12:

    Why Is Baseball So Much Better Than Football?

    FWIW, the Caped Crusader and the Boy Wonder had a policy of signing autographs with their left hands, so they wouldn't be linked to Bruce and Dick. Faux Four acts usually make sure that their Paul plays a lefty bass-- lucky for them it's a bass-- but how many comic-con Batmans know to do this?

    Replies: @Paleo Liberal, @Hhsiii

    Vince was popular in NY pre-Packers. He was a Fordham guy, offensive coordinator for the Gifford, Connerly, Tittle, Rosie Brown, Huff, Robustelli Giants. With Tom Landry as defensive coordinator.

    I think it’s about time to reread A Fan’s Notes and watch The Fortune Cookie.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    @Hhsiii

    My bad, Tittle was post-Lombardi.

  245. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    In many ways, the Space Race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their German scientists and technicians (in the early stages, at least).
     
    Yes, and the nuclear race had a great deal to do with which side made the most effective use of their Jewish scientists and technicians.

    The Germans blew that, and China and India were the first exceptions. Both are gigantic with enormous smart fractions and millennia of experience with mathematics. In their case, Jews were optional.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Jewish angle in making the bomb is both overrated & underrated. It is true that some Jewish persons who later achieved fame, both American-born & imported (Feynman, Schwinger, Szilard, von Neumann, Wigner, Ulam,…) were truly important, but also were American Gentiles (Seaborg, McMillan, Urey, Lawrence, Bush..) as well as others (Fermi …).

    I am not too knowledgeable about details of the now mythic tale, but it seems to me that most big names, Gentile & Jewish, were not of primary importance (with some exceptions). The uncanny advantage US had had was money, resources, focus & isolation. Germans would have done if they had a few years of peace on their soil, more resources & clear focus.

    On the other hand, a counter-argument would be that team Germany did not achieve much after the war, while team US did (Schwinger, Feynman, McMillan, Ulam,…). Also, my notion about the topic may be skewed due to the lack of interest: my impression is that Feynman, despite all the noise, did not contribute much. Others’ claims are contradictory: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2014/06/06/feynman-and-the-bomb/

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian

    When the Manhattan Project began, Feynman was a graduate student who didn't even have his degree yet, so naturally he started out in a junior position and was not in the same league as the established giants of physics who had been recruited to Los Alamos as department heads. Nevertheless, people quickly recognized his brilliance and his talent and he was given important assignments, especially for someone of his age (mid-20s).

    Feynman was also recognized as someone whom you could informally bounce ideas off of because his brilliance made him fearless and because his personality was such that he was not a bootlicker. Men twice his age would fear to say "that's wrong" (and proceed to tell them why) when some Nobel Prize winner would come up with a new idea, but that kind of criticism was exactly what was needed and Oppenheimer, Bethe and the others came to recognize that they could get immediate honest, intelligent and meaningful feedback from Feynman because he could follow their arguments and poke holes in them if necessary. His mathematical tool bag was second to none. (Later on, talking about your thesis topic with Feynman was dangerous for any grad student - either he would solve the problem you were working on overnight or else he would find the fatal flaw in your work, but either way your work was toast.) Perhaps even more than his formal role, this was his greatest contribution to the Project.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  246. @Muggles
    @Bernard

    Jumping the gun a bit on the Dem VP pick.

    Bumpersticker idea, sent by a friend: Joe/Blow 2020

    Replies: @ChrisZ, @ChrisZ

    Come to think of it, it could have been Blow/Joe 2008.

  247. @res
    Speaking of vaccines, what does everyone think about the recent media push for flu vaccination because of COVID-19? Articles like this have been showing up in my news feeds.

    How To Increase Flu Vaccination During The COVID-19 Pandemic
    https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20200731.767849/full/

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200705/Research-suggests-protective-effect-of-influenza-vaccine-against-COVID-19-severity-and-mortality.aspx

    The Dual Epidemics of COVID-19 and Influenza Vaccine Acceptance, Coverage, and Mandates
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767284

    My primary thought is that unless the lockdowns stop we are unlikely to have much of a flu season. Notice how flu prevalence decreased sharply as the COVID-19 lockdowns were put in place.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2019-2020/images/WHONPHL31_small.gif

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind

    OK, how come, say, 10% positive is considered a high number for The Virus?

    Does that many 90% of people with a cough and fever have a bad cold or the ordinary flu?

    I didn’t think we were testing that many people for The Virus who didn’t have symptoms?

  248. @Rob McX
    @Bernard

    I can imagine the selection process: "Joe, nod twice if it's Kamala!"

    Replies: @anon, @Inquiring Mind

    Or they could bring the girls in one by one and let blindfolded Joe touch and smell their hair, then pick the one he likes the most. That would be one way to wind up with Kamasutra.

  249. @HA
    @Hypnotoad666

    "All I am saying is that we need to quantify the actual cost of allowing the coronavirus to spread in order to make correct policy judgments."

    Don't flatter yourself. You're just throwing up whatever stupid objection pops into your head, be it pretending this is no worse than a cold snap, or heat spike, or an added pound or two. It's there in black and white even if your memory is as bad as your reasoning. You're once again trotting out the old "it's just badly labeled cause-of-death" conspiracy even though that's no longer tenable (not that it ever was). You're once again resorting to cheap strawman arguments (I don't recall anyone claiming it's the "new Black Death" and a simple internet search backs me up on that, though your results may differ).

    You don't include any facts or figures or actual calculations. I did. To the extent that there's any difference in usefulness between us, keep that one in mind because it speaks volumes. Sure, the fact that I'm trying to back up what I say means I'll be far more mum than someone who thinks his every stupid and already-discredited proposal or objection is worth spouting again, as if it sere a cloud of ink squirted by a squid when it sees it has been cornered. Don't pretend there's anything useful in that. And yet you think I'm the one who needs to lay down a spreadsheet? Yeah, I'll get right on that.

    You don't have to provide an answer as to what to do about this virus, given that no sane person would listen to it at this point given how wrong you've been. But what you can do once you're willing to admit that you're not the expert you fancy yourself to be is at least stop digging yourself in deeper. Though again, I expect that even that is asking for too much.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    The whole point of my post is that we need to quantify the cost. I said if we did so correctly it “probably” or “likely” would show that it’s not great enough to justify the various freakout measures. So I obviously wasn’t purporting to have run those calculations myself.

    I never even said the specific number of listed deaths was wrong — but that it had to be measured as a “contributory” factor not the sole cause. Later, as I explained, the nature of the excess deaths (mostly 80+ yo and sick) is what lowers the YLL “cost”of the coronavirus. Whether you look at each death as only partly caused by coronavirus, or if you adjust the total deaths by life expectancy aside from the virus, it’s just two different ways of measuring the same thing — the total cost in lives.

    I know you read somewhere that the “excess death” numbers supposedly “debunk” any overcount in total deaths. So you wanted to apply your one idea.

    But you gave “no facts and figures” to challenge my main point (the cost in lives is not as high as it seems), just a link to an excess death article and a Wikipedia entry on the 1936 heat wave.

    You need to curb your annoying arrogance and name calling. If you can’t do that then get the fuck off this board, we don’t need that here.

  250. @Rob McX
    @Bernard

    I can imagine the selection process: "Joe, nod twice if it's Kamala!"

    Replies: @anon, @Inquiring Mind

    Candidate Biden after exposure to delta radiation.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Inquiring Mind


    Candidate Biden after exposure to delta radiation.
     
    One flash for "Yes", two for "No", and three for "C'mon Man!"
  251. “The whole point of my post is that we need to quantify the cost.”

    Give me a break. Trotting out “new Black Death” strawman arguments and how this is all just mislabeled causes of death is not the work of someone whose whole point is to “quantify the cost”. It’s standard conspiracy-based denialism. As is the throwing up whatever objection riffs into your head. It’s textbook conspiracy nut.

    “But you gave “no facts and figures” to challenge my main point (the cost in lives is not as high as it seems), just a link to an excess death article and a Wikipedia entry on the 1936 heat wave.”

    I gave facts and figures to show that the worst American heat wave on record took out only 5,000. If you think ANY amount of “rational tradeoff decisions” made with “quantification and objectivity” are going to stretch 5K into 150K (and remember, we’re not done with this yet, and also remember that without all the unprecedented mitigation the death toll would be much higher), you’re not worth listening to. Also note that 1936 was the worst heat wave ever recorded in the US (and number 2 on the list, killed less than a hundred.) Your initial claim was that COVID was no worse than just a generic “heat wave” which I would argue means considerably less than the first or second worst. So you still think that the “no worse than a heat wave” claim is worth trying to salvage? Come on.

    Again, it’s time to stop digging yourself in deeper. I know that in this crowd, you’re bound to get a fair number of “Agree” clicks for any corona-truther nonsense you choose to spout, but really, it isn’t helping.

  252. @adreadline
    @Bill Jones

    For some reason, this reminds me of the Brit politician who gave his little daughter a burger in public while the mad cow thing was going on decades ago.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  253. @Hhsiii
    @Reg Cæsar

    Vince was popular in NY pre-Packers. He was a Fordham guy, offensive coordinator for the Gifford, Connerly, Tittle, Rosie Brown, Huff, Robustelli Giants. With Tom Landry as defensive coordinator.

    I think it’s about time to reread A Fan’s Notes and watch The Fortune Cookie.

    Replies: @Hhsiii

    My bad, Tittle was post-Lombardi.

  254. @the one they call Desanex
    @Jack D

    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble? Would you want to cover your good-looking face with a mask? Would you want young, healthy, good-looking members of the opposite sex to cover their faces?

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Svigor, @ATBOTL

    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble? Would you want to cover your good-looking face with a mask? Would you want young, healthy, good-looking members of the opposite sex to cover their faces?

    Funny, but I don’t get the impression that the boomer cuckservatives and libertardians doing all the screeching about maaaaaaaassssssssssskkkkkkkkkkksssssssssssss are any of these things.

  255. @utu
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks." - American cornucopia of arguments against masks in responses to your comments.

    #66 jsm: Argument form the totalitarian state position that masks make it difficult to identify and prosecute perpetrators.

    #74 Je Suis Omar Mateen: Teenagae boy objection that mask being yucky: "Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks."

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: "Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet"

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: "Wearing a mask is a symbol..." and homophobic argument: "Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded."

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: "The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?"

    #88 Known Fact: Psychological warfare argument: "widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease."

    #96 anon[239]:. Stating the obvious (tautological) argument: "People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica."

    101 Achmed E. Newman: : Too long to read by the well known bore argument.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon

    Science proves facediapers are bacteria incubators. Yes, I as a teenager knew that warm, moist environments are bacteria incubators. I was a very smart teenager.

  256. @Dumbo

    The aggressive strategy from a country eager to declare a victory amid one of the worst outbreaks in the world has been criticized by outside scientists who worry that shots could be harmful or give people a false sense of security about their immunity. China has already authorized one vaccine for use in its military, ahead of definitive data that it is safe and effective.
     
    Chinese and Russian vaccines, bad. But if you are hesitant about being injected with vaccines made by American or European countries, or if you are suspicious of, say, Bill Gates' plans, you're an "anti vaxxer", a "conspiracy theorist" and a "loon". Funny how that works.

    Well, I for one ain't taking none of them. I guess I will take my chances with the virus directly, which at least doesn't contain mercury. ;-) :-P

    Replies: @John Cunningham, @Alexander Turok, @Paul Mendez

    Don’t worry, you won’t even be offered the vaccine.

    Priority will go to the mega-rich, health care workers, essential government employees, vulnerable communities such as people of color and the economically disadvantaged, LGBTQ peoples with compromised immune systems, single mothers, and the teeming populations of underdeveloped nations across the globe.

    The only white men who’ll get the vaccine will be professional athletes who kneel during the National Anthem.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Paul Mendez

    '... The only white men who’ll get the vaccine will be professional athletes who kneel during the National Anthem.'

    Good thing the disease isn't serious in the first place.

  257. @inertial
    @Sean

    "USSR used equipment possibly acquired in the US to manufacture some parts of their MIRV or whatever, and therefore there is no such thing as Soviet technology." This is even dumber than Obama's "you didn't build that." And yet, it appears to be the received wisdom in the American foreign policy establishment because they are using this logic in their anti-Russian sanctions to this day and then are very surprised when those sanctions don't work.

    But it gets even worse than that. Bright minds now want to ban China from purchasing certain American technology. Because it's not like the Chinese can spend a few years learning to manufacture those things itself and then outcompete and bankrupt American manufactures. Everyone knows that there is no such thing as Chinese technology.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sean

    The Soviets resemble the Chinese in that they had no qualms about stealing technology if they were not able to purchase or license it. Yes they developed some technology of their own but because Americans suck at espionage the technology transfer was all in one direction. This saved the Soviets years and years of R&D as well as billions of $ that they did not have. Could the Russians have developed all of their technology domestically without stealing it from the West? Maybe, if they had enough time and $ but stealing it was a really nice shortcut.

  258. anon[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I really don't get the objection to masks. Even if it is completely stupid and worthless (and I don't think that it is) it's a minor imposition in response to a serious epidemic. Even if WuFlu is not the Black Death it is a serious health care issue and anything that reduces it is good as far as I am concerned. I've read thru the Bill of Rights and I didn't see freedom to not wear a mask in there anywhere. It's not like they are taking your guns away or anything like that. What will Big Government do next - take away your right to spit on the sidewalk?

    Replies: @jsm, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon, @Old Prude, @Cloudbuster, @Known Fact, @Paleo Liberal, @anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @Achmed E. Newman, @obwandiyag, @the one they call Desanex, @utu, @Jon, @anon

    I just thought of the most obvious reason of all for mask-rage; displacement. Object displacement. There’s a lot to be anxious / angry about now, from rioting Only Black Lives Matter / Antifa to corrupt, crave politicians to a huge uncertainty about SARS-2.

    None of this is under sort of control by the average person. But getting all worked up and angry about masks – that is doable. Displace the free-floating anxiety and anger onto a simple public health measure. Like getting mad at work and holding it in, only to yell at your wife / husband / kids / dog.

    Yeah, I know, Siggie Freud, but as with projection he was just noting what was right in front of him.

  259. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Reg Cæsar

    Jewish angle in making the bomb is both overrated & underrated. It is true that some Jewish persons who later achieved fame, both American-born & imported (Feynman, Schwinger, Szilard, von Neumann, Wigner, Ulam,...) were truly important, but also were American Gentiles (Seaborg, McMillan, Urey, Lawrence, Bush..) as well as others (Fermi ...).

    I am not too knowledgeable about details of the now mythic tale, but it seems to me that most big names, Gentile & Jewish, were not of primary importance (with some exceptions). The uncanny advantage US had had was money, resources, focus & isolation. Germans would have done if they had a few years of peace on their soil, more resources & clear focus.

    On the other hand, a counter-argument would be that team Germany did not achieve much after the war, while team US did (Schwinger, Feynman, McMillan, Ulam,...). Also, my notion about the topic may be skewed due to the lack of interest: my impression is that Feynman, despite all the noise, did not contribute much. Others' claims are contradictory: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2014/06/06/feynman-and-the-bomb/

    Replies: @Jack D

    When the Manhattan Project began, Feynman was a graduate student who didn’t even have his degree yet, so naturally he started out in a junior position and was not in the same league as the established giants of physics who had been recruited to Los Alamos as department heads. Nevertheless, people quickly recognized his brilliance and his talent and he was given important assignments, especially for someone of his age (mid-20s).

    Feynman was also recognized as someone whom you could informally bounce ideas off of because his brilliance made him fearless and because his personality was such that he was not a bootlicker. Men twice his age would fear to say “that’s wrong” (and proceed to tell them why) when some Nobel Prize winner would come up with a new idea, but that kind of criticism was exactly what was needed and Oppenheimer, Bethe and the others came to recognize that they could get immediate honest, intelligent and meaningful feedback from Feynman because he could follow their arguments and poke holes in them if necessary. His mathematical tool bag was second to none. (Later on, talking about your thesis topic with Feynman was dangerous for any grad student – either he would solve the problem you were working on overnight or else he would find the fatal flaw in your work, but either way your work was toast.) Perhaps even more than his formal role, this was his greatest contribution to the Project.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Jack D


    Feynman was also recognized as someone whom you could informally bounce ideas off of because his brilliance made him fearless and because his personality was such that he was not a bootlicker.
     
    Feynman's book Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman is full of great anecdotes and most of them are probably true. Feynman said that he was the only guy who would argue with Hans Bethe because all he cared about was the physics.
  260. @J.Ross
    A vaccine, for a normally rapidly mutating virus, which is already burning itself out, and for which we already have an established and virtually free drug -- and the vaccine is coming from the country which the worst mask-spotters and media liars believe to be the devil.
    Le epic troll.
    Also happening today, Michael Flynn's ordeal will probably be finally ended, Vice reports Indian caste discrimination is as common as Indian migration, and Norwegians have found an ancient rock painting.
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3azjp5/silicon-valley-has-a-caste-discrimination-problem

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “It’s getting worse,” Maya said. “Especially with a right-wing government in both India and the U.S., casteist supremacists have gotten emboldened.”

    What the hell does Trump have to do with this?

  261. @Achmed E. Newman
    @utu

    Too long to read? It's excerpted from a great post by C.J. Hopkins, who's been doing a bang-up job on showing us the stupidity of this hysterical Kung Flu re-Panic (he, Mike Whitney, Ron Paul, Michelle Malkin all here, and E.H. Hail on his HailtoYou blog). I told Jack it would take 5 minutes. For you, maybe an hour and a half. Are you afraid of learning something that goes against your totalitarian tendencies?

    How about you wear your little face diaper and quit trying to be a control freak? America was Founded by the type of people who couldn't imagine pussies like you. Maybe you don't belong here.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    America’s Founders according to Achmed:

    https://quipvid.com/watch/xwnndqaw

  262. @the one they call Desanex
    @Jack D

    If you were a young, healthy, good-looking person, would you be afraid of a disease that only kills the old and feeble? Would you want to cover your good-looking face with a mask? Would you want young, healthy, good-looking members of the opposite sex to cover their faces?

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Svigor, @ATBOTL

    Boomer conservatives are the ones who won’t wear masks. Young people think it’s cool to wear masks in public, because it’s a mild form of resistance to the surveillance state.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ATBOTL

    Yes, I was going to make the same point. I would expect civil libertarians to welcome the ability to wear a mask in public without attracting attention, as it neutralizes facial-recognition technology.

    (OTOH, I understand the Asian social controllers are way ahead of the game here, and have working technology that can identify people from their gait and other distinctive bodily characteristics, masked or not.)

  263. It will never work. Ever.

  264. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @ATBOTL
    @the one they call Desanex

    Boomer conservatives are the ones who won't wear masks. Young people think it's cool to wear masks in public, because it's a mild form of resistance to the surveillance state.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Yes, I was going to make the same point. I would expect civil libertarians to welcome the ability to wear a mask in public without attracting attention, as it neutralizes facial-recognition technology.

    (OTOH, I understand the Asian social controllers are way ahead of the game here, and have working technology that can identify people from their gait and other distinctive bodily characteristics, masked or not.)

  265. John MacAfee get hassled, arrested in Norway over his Coof mask. I don’t see the problem…I’m sure it did not cost much, he got it for a thong.

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/1288314/tech-millionaire-john-mcafee-arrested-thong-coronavirus-mask-norway/

  266. @Achmed E. Newman

    Now, I wouldn’t volunteer to personally take some Russian vaccine before a few million folks have tried it ...
     
    How much time would you want to let go by before you did? Who says the side-effects of vaccines is short-term? It's great that the Chinese have their own ready-made guinea pigs in the PLA. I'm guessing that in Russia, it would be the same situation as here for the healthcare employees - don't get the shot and you lose your job.

    Though a vaccine will be a great thing for the old and otherwise vulnerable, it will just put off any chance of the sheep seeing the way they've been fooled with this phony crisis. Even if society is let to try to get back to normal, what has been done is to proof-test the idea of LOCKDOWNS and face-diaper wearing as normal things that can be implemented again at the whim of government officials. When's the next one coming? Don't throw out those full-face masks yet that you end up wearing even outside in the sunshine to accessorize.


    .

    PS: In case I get Mr. Godfree Roberts with his graphs with the circles and arrows showing the successes of Chairman Mao, or some of the Russia boosters like Anon-who-still-lives-in-Tennessee-though, I'm not knocking anything in particular about the Chinese or Russians having concocted a vaccine vs. Americans having done the same.

    Replies: @Polynikes, @Svigor, @Cloudbuster, @Jack D, @Mr. Anon, @Colin Wright

    ‘How much time would you want to let go by before you did?’

    I don’t bother with flu shots. Does that answer your question?

  267. @Paul Mendez
    @Dumbo

    Don’t worry, you won’t even be offered the vaccine.

    Priority will go to the mega-rich, health care workers, essential government employees, vulnerable communities such as people of color and the economically disadvantaged, LGBTQ peoples with compromised immune systems, single mothers, and the teeming populations of underdeveloped nations across the globe.

    The only white men who’ll get the vaccine will be professional athletes who kneel during the National Anthem.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘… The only white men who’ll get the vaccine will be professional athletes who kneel during the National Anthem.’

    Good thing the disease isn’t serious in the first place.

  268. @JohnPlywood
    @Jack D

    Many of the Jews you speak of were German-educated. Nuclear weapons emerged from the 19th/20th century theoretical physics research that was done in the old German Empire and the Netherlands, Switzerland, etc.

    But you're only talking about the theoretical side of nuclear weapons. There's a difference between writing the theory behind nuclear weapons, and actually making one. For one thing, several components of nuclear weapons are classified, and uninformed members of the public have had to reverse-engineer and imagine them. One example is FOGBANK, an aerogel. We have no way of knowing who invented it, but the first aerogel was invented by a German gentile. Without aerogels, many types of modern nuclear weapons would probably never exist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOGBANK

    The exploding bridgewire detonator was an essential part of the early bombs and was invented by non-Jews of Latino and Anglo extraction.

    Some sources (notably Sam Cohen) have claimed that red mercury is a component of nuclear devices. Again, there's no way of knowing whether red mercury is even a real thing or not, but the earliest observations of a substance resembling red mercury come to us from participants in the Nazi nuclear program. In particular, die Glocke, a probable early NS nuclear reactor, was said to rely on red mercury.

    Regardless of whether there is any truth behind the die Glocke myth, we know for fact that German scientists were a vital part of the Soviet nuclear program, which independently invented its own nuclear weapons, using refined uranium products obtained from WITHIN Germany:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Alsos


    So the nuclear weapon is by no means a Jewish patent.

    As for the electrical stuff, it is true that the modern MOSFET semiconductor was invented by an Arab/Korean team, but the early transistors were independently invented by Germans, and the first transistor was invented by a German-educated Jew (Julius Lilienfeld). Again, people are refining and expounding on German research. The inspiration for these devices began in Germany.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    A word of advice: the history of science and technology pushed by people like Alex Jones and Nick Cook is ignorant bulls**t.

    You are wrong in thinking that Germans invented everything – as much as some jewish chauvinists are wrong in thinking that Jews invented everything.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    @Mr. Anon

    Sorry, but you're a non-German who is intimidated and angered by the fact that the modern world is largely a German idea. Certainly, we can say Germany has had a disparate impact on the couese of history for the last 300 years (after all, even Communism came from Germany). There was nothing "Alex Jonesy" about my post.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  269. @Inquiring Mind
    @Rob McX

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menagerie_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series)#/media/File:ST_TheMenagerie.jpg

    Candidate Biden after exposure to delta radiation.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Candidate Biden after exposure to delta radiation.

    One flash for “Yes”, two for “No”, and three for “C’mon Man!”

  270. @utu
    @Jack D

    "I really don’t get the objection to masks." - American cornucopia of arguments against masks in responses to your comments.

    #66 jsm: Argument form the totalitarian state position that masks make it difficult to identify and prosecute perpetrators.

    #74 Je Suis Omar Mateen: Teenagae boy objection that mask being yucky: "Facediapers are disgusting disease sacks."

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: "Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet"

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: "Wearing a mask is a symbol..." and homophobic argument: "Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded."

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: "The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?"

    #88 Known Fact: Psychological warfare argument: "widespread mask use is the crucial visual prop to dramatizing that threat and thus maintaining a level of fear and unease."

    #96 anon[239]:. Stating the obvious (tautological) argument: "People do not like being told what to do, especially in Murica."

    101 Achmed E. Newman: : Too long to read by the well known bore argument.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Je Suis Omar Mateen, @Mr. Anon

    #75 Mr. Anon:. Mr. Bad Analogy and Straw-Man argument: “Should the government compel you to carry an umbrella so you don’t get wet”

    It isn’t a strawman at all. You get wet, you can get sick. You get sick, you kill grandma; that’s the very argument you hysterics are making.

    #76 Old Prude: Semiotic argument: “Wearing a mask is a symbol…” and homophobic argument: “Some fags are actually happy to be submissive and degraded.”

    Homophobic? You buy that? It’s a BS word for a BS concept. Revulsion at homosexuality is perfectly rational. Or did Old Prude inadvertantly question your lifestyle?

    #77 Cloudbuster: Infantile constitutional fetishist argument: “The proper question is, where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to force me to wear a mask?”

    The fundamental law of the land is hardly infantile. You, on the other hand……………..

  271. Anon[330] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    @Anon


    I think way too much emphasis is being put on vaccines and drug treatments, over the cold, hard truth that the world is permanently changed and certain things are not coming back, like eating out, concerts, and live sports. People and businesses that adapt as soon as possible to the new, permanent reality will be better off.
     
    This now routinely said. And clearly there are powerful interests that are promoting this - those interests that want, for whatever reason, a society broken down into isolated, atomized, mutually mistrustful loners.

    Who says everything has to change? Who says we can't go back to normal? The Spanish Influenza has been estimated to have killed 0.63% of the population of America. When it was over, America went right back to normal. Far from being a nation of anti-social shut-ins, the subsequent decade was known as "The Roaring Twenties".

    Replies: @Anon

    The Spanish Influenza has been estimated to have killed 0.63% of the population of America. When it was over, America went right back to normal.

    I’d like a detailed, informed take on this. To what degree can Covid be compared to the Spanish flu? I was under the impression that the Spanish flu was not that well understood: In recent memory they were digging up graveyards in the Arctic to try to get samples of it for sequencing, because they didn’t really know what it was. They probably do by now, but test tube studies in Level 4 biosafety labs can only tell you so much.

    On the other hand I’ve read some preliminary comments on Covid that make it sound like it’s not going to fade away for decades (because of its “novelty,” apparently an epidemiological term of art), and that there may be permanent side effects that may cause an attitude adjustment among young people, once things are fully understood, since young people would have the most to fear from chronic Covid problems, if they’re real.

    • Replies: @HA
    @Anon

    "I was under the impression that the Spanish flu was not that well understood..."

    Interview with John Barry, author of the 2004 book, The Great Influenza

  272. @Mr. Anon
    @JohnPlywood

    A word of advice: the history of science and technology pushed by people like Alex Jones and Nick Cook is ignorant bulls**t.

    You are wrong in thinking that Germans invented everything - as much as some jewish chauvinists are wrong in thinking that Jews invented everything.

    Replies: @JohnPlywood

    Sorry, but you’re a non-German who is intimidated and angered by the fact that the modern world is largely a German idea. Certainly, we can say Germany has had a disparate impact on the couese of history for the last 300 years (after all, even Communism came from Germany). There was nothing “Alex Jonesy” about my post.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @JohnPlywood


    Sorry, but you’re a non-German who is intimidated and angered by the fact that the modern world is largely a German idea.
     
    I am not intimidated by a non-fact.

    There was nothing “Alex Jonesy” about my post.
     
    Sure there was - Red Mercury and "Die Glocke".

    And Switzerland wasn't part of the German Empire. Nor was the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  273. @J.Ross
    @AnotherDad

    I feel bad for Norm Macdonald trying to get a Weekend Update bit out of this autistic reading, and then revisiting it years later, when his audience has already bought into "the language of wood" and the idea that words should be utterly meaningless. Yes, a homophobe would be someone afraid of, say, the lead singer from Erasure, which is ridiculous.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Yes, a homophobe would be someone afraid of, say, the lead singer from Erasure, which is ridiculous.

    A literal homophobe would fear his twin brother.

  274. @Svigor
    Yeah, it's an interesting question.

    On one hand, Russians are a lot less gay than we are. So they can just whip up a vaccine and start using it in short order.

    On the other hand, Russians are a lot less gay than we are. So they can just whip up a vaccine and start using it in short order, and kill a bunch of people because they rushed to large scale trials too quickly.

    So, citation needed, I guess.

    I'm hopeful - but I've also seen summaries of Soviet naval nuclear accidents vs. US.

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    Это просто грипп, братан.

    • LOL: Svigor
  275. @Reg Cæsar
    @Paleo Liberal


    ...my grandfather serving in the Battle of Okinawa?
     
    Which we are waging to this day:

    U.S. Marine Corps Sexual Violence on Okinawa

    I guess "unconditional surrender" means exactly that! Even the beasts of the field are unsafe:

    According to USMC courts-martial records obtained from USMC Headquarters, between January 2015 and December 2017, 65 U.S. marines were imprisoned at courts-martial on Okinawa for sexual offenses targeting adults, children and, in one case, an unknown number of animals...

    The USMCHQ records also reveal that the USMC on Okinawa held the dubious distinction of conducting the only court-martial for bestiality throughout the USMC between 2015 and 2017.
     
    This gives new range and depth to the term lance corporal, doesn't it?

    My mother told me stories how after WW II she occasionally drove Chesty Puller around as a teenager with a new driver’s license.
     
    Not to be confused with Chesty Morgan.

    Replies: @Father Coughlin, @Hippopotamusdrome

    court-martial for bestiality

    That should be used if there is ever a MASH reboot.

  276. @inertial
    @Sean

    "USSR used equipment possibly acquired in the US to manufacture some parts of their MIRV or whatever, and therefore there is no such thing as Soviet technology." This is even dumber than Obama's "you didn't build that." And yet, it appears to be the received wisdom in the American foreign policy establishment because they are using this logic in their anti-Russian sanctions to this day and then are very surprised when those sanctions don't work.

    But it gets even worse than that. Bright minds now want to ban China from purchasing certain American technology. Because it's not like the Chinese can spend a few years learning to manufacture those things itself and then outcompete and bankrupt American manufactures. Everyone knows that there is no such thing as Chinese technology.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Sean

    https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/styles/desktop__1260_/public/main_images/2017-11-29t222847z_141744_rc1c41d2e920_rtrmadp_3_northkorea-missiles.jpg?itok=-S-27bWN

    If we give Russia technology they will only sell it to China. North Korea built a Magnox nuclear reactor after the UK declassified the plans for the obsolete design. Trump gets elected and all of a sudden the North Koreans have a colossal ICBM that can hit the continental US and is a MIRV platform, plus Kim is launching satellites.

    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/04/13/salvaged-parts-show-chinese-firms-supplied-key-components-for-north-koreas-rocket-program.html

    Kim is Xi’s cat’s paw, put into cold storage because re-election of Trump is looking unlikely. No one is interested in Russia as such except superannuated Deep Staters. There are villages in Russia that look like something out of the 19th century, and there are precious few all weather roads East of Moscow.

    You want to repeat the mistake of the West with the Soviet Union. Anti communists like Nixon got into shouting matches with Kruschev over washing machines, but never cut off the technology. Only Reagan did that, and the Soviet Union, which had actual military superiority over the US in the Carter era promptly collapsed.

    https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/brendan-simms-biography-adolf-hitler-what-dictator-thinking/

    There was a clear hierarchy of enemies in Hitler’s mind, and the threat posed by the Soviet Union and communism was by no means as serious as the threat posed by the British empire or the United States. You can see this in the distribution of German resources during the Second World War, which runs contrary to many things you might read about the overall importance of the eastern front. By the end of 1943 at the latest, the majority of the German war effort was dedicated to fighting the so-called ‘Anglo-Saxons’, and in 1944–45 the preponderance was greater still. The western allies absorbed the larger share of Hitler’s intellectual and rhetorical bandwidth, right to the very end.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Sean

    "Kim is Xi’s cat’s paw, put into cold storage because re-election of Trump is looking unlikely."

    I contend that North Korea has been secretly a Western ally since way back, and Kim's threats only kabuki theater. Perhaps it was the real reason he was removed.

  277. @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    Look, there is a reason why we have the FDA act which requires that drugs must be proven to be “safe” AND “effective” before you take them.
     
    "Safe and Effective" is just a phrase that tries to make people feel good by pretending there is no tradeoff between the two concepts. It's like passing a law that all goods must be both "cheap" and "high quality."

    For example, a vaccine that causes death in 1% of patients would be deemed "unsafe" and kept off the market. But if it would have prevented a disease with a 5% death rate then you are effectively killing 4% of the population by insisting on "safety" as an independent requirement. That doesn't sound like "doing no harm."

    Of course, the FDA and doctors can avoid legal and moral responsibility by letting the disease kill people instead of taking a risk that their treatments do. But the people are just as dead. Hippocrates notwithstanding, I believe the choice that saves more lives is more ethical.

    Replies: @vhrm

    “Safe and Effective” is just a phrase that tries to make people feel good by pretending there is no tradeoff between the two concepts. It’s like passing a law that all goods must be both “cheap” and “high quality.”

    It’s even worse than you say, imo.
    1) Not only is the tradeoff not usually addressed, neither is the fact that the line between “safe” and “not-safe” and “effective” and “not-effective” are pretty arbitrary. In reality the FDA does deal with these nuances at length in their declarations but it doesn’t make it into the news articles. (e.g. chemo drugs that are in fact pretty damn harmful and not particularly effective, but they’re deemed “safe and effective” because … “hey, it’s better than nothing! Probably. At least sometimes.” or sunscreen chemicals where none of them have been actually shown to be safe so the only ones we use are the old ones that are grandfathered because they’ve been used since before the FDA really started regulating the stuff)

    2) “not safe and effective” isn’t language meant to be parsed; it’s used as a stamp: “Not Safe and Effective(TM)” because that’s what it says in some law or regulation that the FDA is supposed to determine. It’s like Caesar giving the thumbs down to a gladiator. The details don’t matter it’s just that you either have gotten the royal stamp or you haven’t.
    With the FDA similarly it’s “these people haven’t groveled before us enough and they don’t have any power so … DENIED”.

  278. What do you think the Euromaidan “revolution” was all about? Democracy, liberty? C’mon! Merely the usual CIA – led and- financed coup which sought to undermine Russian power and plunged the country in a civil war. But it backfired, as Putin recovered Crimea, and so far, the looting of Ukraine by corporations has been seriously underwhelming because of the political instability. I don’t think the US should mess with other countries’ political status-quo. Look at the damage wrought upon the Middle-East just because Hillary and her globo-Homo handlers didn’t like Hassad. Anything is better than chaos. Need I mention Lybia?
    Also, I think the US government long ago ceased to represent US interests, but rather globalist interests. Maybe as far back as Wilson.

  279. @Paleo Liberal
    @HammerJack

    I am a big immigration hawk, but that is silly.

    We wouldn’t have gotten to the Moon were it not for immigrants. Especially German scientist immigrants.

    Replies: @HammerJack

    For whatever reason, you are mixing up “few but carefully selected immigrants” with “tens of millions of third-world refuse” though these are opposites and only the second phrase describes our policy since 1965.

  280. @Sean
    @inertial

    https://nationalinterest.org/sites/default/files/styles/desktop__1260_/public/main_images/2017-11-29t222847z_141744_rc1c41d2e920_rtrmadp_3_northkorea-missiles.jpg?itok=-S-27bWN


    If we give Russia technology they will only sell it to China. North Korea built a Magnox nuclear reactor after the UK declassified the plans for the obsolete design. Trump gets elected and all of a sudden the North Koreans have a colossal ICBM that can hit the continental US and is a MIRV platform, plus Kim is launching satellites.


    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/04/13/salvaged-parts-show-chinese-firms-supplied-key-components-for-north-koreas-rocket-program.html
     
    Kim is Xi's cat's paw, put into cold storage because re-election of Trump is looking unlikely. No one is interested in Russia as such except superannuated Deep Staters. There are villages in Russia that look like something out of the 19th century, and there are precious few all weather roads East of Moscow.

    You want to repeat the mistake of the West with the Soviet Union. Anti communists like Nixon got into shouting matches with Kruschev over washing machines, but never cut off the technology. Only Reagan did that, and the Soviet Union, which had actual military superiority over the US in the Carter era promptly collapsed.


    https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/brendan-simms-biography-adolf-hitler-what-dictator-thinking/

    There was a clear hierarchy of enemies in Hitler’s mind, and the threat posed by the Soviet Union and communism was by no means as serious as the threat posed by the British empire or the United States. You can see this in the distribution of German resources during the Second World War, which runs contrary to many things you might read about the overall importance of the eastern front. By the end of 1943 at the latest, the majority of the German war effort was dedicated to fighting the so-called ‘Anglo-Saxons’, and in 1944–45 the preponderance was greater still. The western allies absorbed the larger share of Hitler’s intellectual and rhetorical bandwidth, right to the very end.
     

    Replies: @BB753

    “Kim is Xi’s cat’s paw, put into cold storage because re-election of Trump is looking unlikely.”

    I contend that North Korea has been secretly a Western ally since way back, and Kim’s threats only kabuki theater. Perhaps it was the real reason he was removed.

  281. @JohnPlywood
    @Mr. Anon

    Sorry, but you're a non-German who is intimidated and angered by the fact that the modern world is largely a German idea. Certainly, we can say Germany has had a disparate impact on the couese of history for the last 300 years (after all, even Communism came from Germany). There was nothing "Alex Jonesy" about my post.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Sorry, but you’re a non-German who is intimidated and angered by the fact that the modern world is largely a German idea.

    I am not intimidated by a non-fact.

    There was nothing “Alex Jonesy” about my post.

    Sure there was – Red Mercury and “Die Glocke”.

    And Switzerland wasn’t part of the German Empire. Nor was the Netherlands.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mr. Anon


    And Switzerland wasn’t part of the German Empire. Nor was the Netherlands.
     
    They were both formally part of the German Empire until 1648.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  282. @Sollipsist
    @Corvinus

    The fact that ICUs are unequipped to handle anything unprecedented is not a compelling reason to do anything but increase the capacity of ICUs.

    In the 21st Century alone, we've seen three flu seasons (and countless individual weekends) bad enough to cause major metropolitan hospitals to exceed ICU capacity. Wouldn't increasing capacity have been a logical step after the first or second time?

    I recognize the strengths of a focus on "prevention," which is a wonderful way to reduce the impact of a specific threat... but this seems to ignore the certainty that there WILL be unforeseen threats to capacity in the future.

    Is intensive care simply a bad investment that hospitals are unwilling or unable to maintain? I can understand that. But you may as well argue in favor of less driving, because infrastructure maintainance is too costly to ensure that bridges won't be increasingly likely to crumble beneath us.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “The fact that ICUs are unequipped to handle anything unprecedented is not a compelling reason to do anything but increase the capacity of ICUs.”

    To the contrary, if ICU’s are inundated with specifically Covid-19 patients, then what about those individuals who suffer from heart attacks/strokes, gun shot wounds, or other life-threatening conditions? Their chances for recovery are put at a significant disadvantage. Moreover, the physical and emotional toil put on medical professionals who work in an environment that is constantly shifting is stunning.

    “In the 21st Century alone, we’ve seen three flu seasons (and countless individual weekends) bad enough to cause major metropolitan hospitals to exceed ICU capacity.”

    Sources? Furthermore, if true, that would be during the FLU SEASON. Notice that Covid-19 has no season.

    • Replies: @Sollipsist
    @Corvinus

    There's more like this. In each one, the spokesman always stresses how "unprecedented" the situation is, which brings to mind the timeless words of Inigo Montoya.

    https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

    Replies: @Corvinus

  283. @Lot
    @Reg Cæsar

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    A Berklee alum!

  284. @HA
    @Kratoklastes

    "That’s a weird way to phrase it: it makes it seem as if you think that ‘few symptoms‘ is something that on the lucky few experience… when ‘few symptoms‘ is the most common experience (and by a ridiculous margin)."

    There's no need to be an ass. "Lucky" in this case means that the overwhelming majority who do not get symptoms are far, far luckier than those who die or are otherwise seriously damaged. Is that really so hard for you to understand?

    If a terrorist or a bolt of lightning picks off one kid in a crowd of hundreds, it's perfectly understandable that every one of those left unscathed will henceforth regard himself or herself as being "one of the lucky ones" on that day, given their brush with death.

    Replies: @botazefa

    If a terrorist or a bolt of lightning picks off one kid in a crowd of hundreds, it’s perfectly understandable that every one of those left unscathed will henceforth regard himself or herself as being “one of the lucky ones” on that day, given their brush with death.

    As one of the 7 billion who wasn’t struck, I don’t feel lucky that particular bolt didn’t hit me. Why would I?

    Covid-19 kills very few, relatively. To be symptomatic is very unlucky. Maybe that’s more in line with what you intended to convey?

    • Replies: @HA
    @botazefa

    "As one of the 7 billion who wasn’t struck, I don’t feel lucky that particular bolt didn’t hit me. Why would I?"

    The previous argument referred to those in the vicinity of the lightning bolt, (i.e. a "crowd") not the entire population of the planet. The comment before that referred to a consisting of those who get sick -- again, not the entire human race -- so I don't see how your observation is relevant.

    In any case, the vast majority of us can agree there's no deception or effort to mislead in observing that living another day is luckier than getting shot in the head, and that was my original rationale for using the term. Surviving a round of Russian roulette is likewise considered to be luckier than a bullet in the brain (assuming you didn't pull the trigger as part of a death wish), regardless of the fact that the odds were overwhelmingly in your favor.

    This argument is about as asinine as "that guy" who reminds us that the Halloween costume is actually of Frankenstein's monster, not Frankenstein. except at least that guy has the virtue of being correct.

  285. @jsm
    @Jack D

    It's not a "minor imposition" when it facilitates thugs to riot, steal, rob and burn with impunity, knowing their mandated mask will make it harder to identify and prosecute them.

    Besides the point that it makes it harder to breathe during exercise (impacting health) and all the face touching taking it on and off to breathe just in normal activity increases likelihood of catching cold and flu viruses that are spread by touching the face.

    Replies: @HA

    “Besides the point that…[wearing face masks]… and all the face touching taking it on and off to breathe just in normal activity increases likelihood of catching cold and flu viruses that are spread by touching the face.”

    If that were true, then places where more people wear masks would see more death from COVID, all other things being equal. The data so far — while far from crystal clear — indicate that you’re wrong.

    The same lame excuses were also used to discredit seat belts. They’re uncomfortable, they sometimes trap you, they might give you a false sense of security that leads to riskier behavior, etc. All of that may well be true to some extent (especially in the case of older and less safer cars, for which being thrown clear of an accident is more likely to be the less lethal option), but it doesn’t change the fact that when everything is added up and totaled, seat belts are more likely to help than harm, and those who wear them consistently are — in general, if not in every instance — less likely to die in traffic than those who disregard them.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @HA

    You’re of course right, HA, that sensible safety precautions sometimes meet with shortsighted objections. But the analogy to seat belts does not fly, in several respects.

    First, using seat belts does not undermine normal human interaction, display of emotion, seeing each other smile, getting to know each other (and express humor, care, etc.) through facial expressions and cues, like wearing masks does.

    Second, there is no basis to reasonably doubt the efficacy and worthwhileness of wearing seat belts, while there certainly a basis to doubt the efficacy and worthwhileness of wearing masks on a regular basis.

    Also, i wonder whether subsequent research has undermined this 2015 hospital study’s understanding of masks, including the very limited utility of cloth masks and the health risks of wearing those masks:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/

    Moreover, even if everyone had N95 masks AND always wore them AND wore them properly, it would still be overkill for reasonably healthy people to wear them outside perhaps hospitals and nursing homes — the product of indoctrination through repetition and fear, ridicule of opposing viewpoints, and the resultant mass hysteria.

    As for me and my family, we will show our smiles to the world, shake hands at a pleasant encounter, breathe the air freely, enjoy the sun on our face, attend church where and when and with whom we please, gather with family or friends as we please as (formerly semi-)free people, and most of all: have our children be normal healthy children happily playing and jostling and — horrors — even wrestling together.

    Conversely, if we visit a facility where elderly and/or ailing people are concentrated, like a hospital or nursing home, we will wear masks whether it is required or not.

    Time to calm down, think for ourselves, demand sound medical evidence, trials, and reasoning for all the police state’s claims, and LIVE FREE.

    Anyone who is too afraid to go outside his home without a mask, whether rationally because of a serious respiratory or other condition — or more often IRrationally — has always been free to wear a mask. Leave us and most of all our children the Hell alone.

    Replies: @HA

  286. @Sean
    @dearieme

    All countries will contribute of their unique talents


    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Japanese-scientists-turn-to-silkworms-for-COVID-19-vaccine

    In a building on the Kyushu University campus in Fukuoka, in western Japan, "we have about 250,000 silkworms in about 500 different phylogenies (family lines)," Kusakabe said.
    In his lab a short distance away from the building, student volunteers with special permission from the university are hard at work on vaccine development. Nikkei spoke to Kusakabe in May, when Japan was under a state of emergency.Genes of the protein that forms the outer "spikes" of the new coronavirus are incorporated into the virus and injected into a silkworm. The virus is then taken into silkworm cells, and after about four days, spike proteins that can serve as vaccine material start to be produced in large quantities. These spike proteins are removed, refined and made into a vaccine that is administered via injection.

    From the thousands of insects in the lab, "we have found a type of silkworm that can efficiently manufacture the proteins," Kusakabe said.
     

    Russia also has the people to reduce deaths from coronavirus.

    https://youtu.be/1inkOhiSXqQ?t=16

    A quarter of Russian men expire before they reach 55 years of age.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Russians buy FAR less alcohol per capita than they did just ten years ago, and beer and wine apparently have displaced ultrahigh-alcohol spirits like vodka as the most popular type of drink. Even wikipedia, which seems to want to make russia look as bad as possible, reports this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_in_Russia

    Citation for your claim, please?

    ……

    Having said that, I drank the smoothest, most non-alcohol-tasting vodka (“horilka”) in Ukraine some years ago. All too easy to drink. A really fun experience throwing back a couple shots with wait staff and customers whom i met at a restaurant i frequented during my visit there. But it was rather alarming how much they could drink, at least that particular group. (That is not russia, of course, and it was over ten years ago.).

    We communicated partly in German, as one of the waitresses had studied it in high school and could get by. Between my american accent in german and her even stronger ukie accent in german, it was not easy, but thank God we had that common language (only one could speak fairly well in english and he was not always on shift). They made me quite welcome and we closed the place every night for a week.

    The most memorable was the one girl telling me, in german, before we sat down together the first time after regular work hours: “Be careful. The GIRLS here can drink more than your men.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @RadicalCenter

    When I was in Moscow in 2001, there were vodka drunks lying on the sidewalks, but the college students drank beer, which gave me some optimism along the lines of Hogarth's 1700s paintings Gin Alley vs. Beer Lane.

    Replies: @vinteuil

    , @Sean
    @RadicalCenter


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-alcohol/coronavirus-lockdown-drives-jump-in-vodka-and-whisky-sales-in-russia-idUSKCN21R171

    In the last week of March, vodka sales across Russia’s largest retail chains jumped 31% in year-on-year terms ... a belief among many Russians that alcohol offers some protection against the new coronavirus.
     
    https://youtu.be/bASaIJMxMqI?t=1341
  287. @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian

    When the Manhattan Project began, Feynman was a graduate student who didn't even have his degree yet, so naturally he started out in a junior position and was not in the same league as the established giants of physics who had been recruited to Los Alamos as department heads. Nevertheless, people quickly recognized his brilliance and his talent and he was given important assignments, especially for someone of his age (mid-20s).

    Feynman was also recognized as someone whom you could informally bounce ideas off of because his brilliance made him fearless and because his personality was such that he was not a bootlicker. Men twice his age would fear to say "that's wrong" (and proceed to tell them why) when some Nobel Prize winner would come up with a new idea, but that kind of criticism was exactly what was needed and Oppenheimer, Bethe and the others came to recognize that they could get immediate honest, intelligent and meaningful feedback from Feynman because he could follow their arguments and poke holes in them if necessary. His mathematical tool bag was second to none. (Later on, talking about your thesis topic with Feynman was dangerous for any grad student - either he would solve the problem you were working on overnight or else he would find the fatal flaw in your work, but either way your work was toast.) Perhaps even more than his formal role, this was his greatest contribution to the Project.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Feynman was also recognized as someone whom you could informally bounce ideas off of because his brilliance made him fearless and because his personality was such that he was not a bootlicker.

    Feynman’s book Surely You’re Joking Mr. Feynman is full of great anecdotes and most of them are probably true. Feynman said that he was the only guy who would argue with Hans Bethe because all he cared about was the physics.

  288. @Anon
    @Mr. Anon


    The Spanish Influenza has been estimated to have killed 0.63% of the population of America. When it was over, America went right back to normal.
     
    I’d like a detailed, informed take on this. To what degree can Covid be compared to the Spanish flu? I was under the impression that the Spanish flu was not that well understood: In recent memory they were digging up graveyards in the Arctic to try to get samples of it for sequencing, because they didn’t really know what it was. They probably do by now, but test tube studies in Level 4 biosafety labs can only tell you so much.

    On the other hand I’ve read some preliminary comments on Covid that make it sound like it’s not going to fade away for decades (because of its “novelty,” apparently an epidemiological term of art), and that there may be permanent side effects that may cause an attitude adjustment among young people, once things are fully understood, since young people would have the most to fear from chronic Covid problems, if they’re real.

    Replies: @HA

    “I was under the impression that the Spanish flu was not that well understood…”

    Interview with John Barry, author of the 2004 book, The Great Influenza

  289. @HA
    @jsm

    "Besides the point that...[wearing face masks]... and all the face touching taking it on and off to breathe just in normal activity increases likelihood of catching cold and flu viruses that are spread by touching the face."

    If that were true, then places where more people wear masks would see more death from COVID, all other things being equal. The data so far -- while far from crystal clear -- indicate that you're wrong.

    The same lame excuses were also used to discredit seat belts. They're uncomfortable, they sometimes trap you, they might give you a false sense of security that leads to riskier behavior, etc. All of that may well be true to some extent (especially in the case of older and less safer cars, for which being thrown clear of an accident is more likely to be the less lethal option), but it doesn't change the fact that when everything is added up and totaled, seat belts are more likely to help than harm, and those who wear them consistently are -- in general, if not in every instance -- less likely to die in traffic than those who disregard them.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    You’re of course right, HA, that sensible safety precautions sometimes meet with shortsighted objections. But the analogy to seat belts does not fly, in several respects.

    First, using seat belts does not undermine normal human interaction, display of emotion, seeing each other smile, getting to know each other (and express humor, care, etc.) through facial expressions and cues, like wearing masks does.

    Second, there is no basis to reasonably doubt the efficacy and worthwhileness of wearing seat belts, while there certainly a basis to doubt the efficacy and worthwhileness of wearing masks on a regular basis.

    Also, i wonder whether subsequent research has undermined this 2015 hospital study’s understanding of masks, including the very limited utility of cloth masks and the health risks of wearing those masks:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/

    Moreover, even if everyone had N95 masks AND always wore them AND wore them properly, it would still be overkill for reasonably healthy people to wear them outside perhaps hospitals and nursing homes — the product of indoctrination through repetition and fear, ridicule of opposing viewpoints, and the resultant mass hysteria.

    As for me and my family, we will show our smiles to the world, shake hands at a pleasant encounter, breathe the air freely, enjoy the sun on our face, attend church where and when and with whom we please, gather with family or friends as we please as (formerly semi-)free people, and most of all: have our children be normal healthy children happily playing and jostling and — horrors — even wrestling together.

    Conversely, if we visit a facility where elderly and/or ailing people are concentrated, like a hospital or nursing home, we will wear masks whether it is required or not.

    Time to calm down, think for ourselves, demand sound medical evidence, trials, and reasoning for all the police state’s claims, and LIVE FREE.

    Anyone who is too afraid to go outside his home without a mask, whether rationally because of a serious respiratory or other condition — or more often IRrationally — has always been free to wear a mask. Leave us and most of all our children the Hell alone.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @HA
    @RadicalCenter

    "But the analogy to seat belts does not fly, in several respects...First, using seat belts does not undermine normal human interaction, display of emotion, seeing each other smile, getting to know each other (and express humor, care, etc.) through facial expressions and cues, like wearing masks does."

    An analogy doesn't have to be perfect in order to get a point across, and I'm not persuaded by your "my pain is so much greater than their pain" arguments (which also start sounding eerily analogous if you've heard one after another). I agree that for many of those throwing tantrums over being asked to wear masks during a pandemic, "normal human interaction" -- as you define it -- is something so vital that we are permitted to melt like little snowflakes if it is compromised in any way.

    But for the analogous tantrum-throwers back in the day when seat belts were first legislated, it was the unencumbered "freedom of the road" -- i.e. not having to be strapped in by a "car-girdle" or whatever another derogatory phrase they invoked so as to seem clever --that made life in America special.

    For me, both tantrums are more similar than they are different, though I realize that the key feature of being a fragile snowflake is the insistence of being special and unique, and people in both groups will argue over who gets to wear that crown (which again, just makes them more similar than different). And they can both agree that a cruel fascist nanny-state has yet again deprived us freedom-loving-Americans of something we had come to regard as supremely important (cue that Ben Franklin quote about security and liberty) and in both cases, a group of people got lost in their fragility just couldn't deal. Oh, the tragedy....let me stop for a minute, while I take it all in. Forget those who had to cower underground during the Blitz, or in Dresden. If you want real deprivation, consider, if you dare, the horror...the horror... of having to strap on a thin strip of fabric. That's the image that Orwell should have left us with, not some silly boot stamping on a face. I mean, what's the big deal about being stamped in the face with a boot? But a face mask -- oh, now you're talking.

    So anyway, the analogy, while not perfect, works pretty well, and yeah, I think we all get it.

    Actually, the real spoiler to the analogy is that COVID, unlike a car wreck, is contagious, but I'm guessing you'll like that observation even less.

  290. @Alexander Turok
    @Dumbo


    Chinese and Russian vaccines, bad. But if you are hesitant about being injected with vaccines made by American or European countries, or if you are suspicious of, say, Bill Gates’ plans, you’re an “anti vaxxer”, a “conspiracy theorist” and a “loon”.
     
    Have you considered the hypothesis that maybe it does make sense but you're just too stupid to understand it?

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    As has been pointed out to you before, your frequent resort to name-calling makes you look childish, overly emotional, and well…rather stupid. You’d really be better off just remaining quiet.

    No need to reply, you’re the latest addition to my lengthy “commenters to ignore” list.

  291. @RadicalCenter
    @Sean

    Russians buy FAR less alcohol per capita than they did just ten years ago, and beer and wine apparently have displaced ultrahigh-alcohol spirits like vodka as the most popular type of drink. Even wikipedia, which seems to want to make russia look as bad as possible, reports this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_in_Russia

    Citation for your claim, please?

    ......

    Having said that, I drank the smoothest, most non-alcohol-tasting vodka (“horilka”) in Ukraine some years ago. All too easy to drink. A really fun experience throwing back a couple shots with wait staff and customers whom i met at a restaurant i frequented during my visit there. But it was rather alarming how much they could drink, at least that particular group. (That is not russia, of course, and it was over ten years ago.).

    We communicated partly in German, as one of the waitresses had studied it in high school and could get by. Between my american accent in german and her even stronger ukie accent in german, it was not easy, but thank God we had that common language (only one could speak fairly well in english and he was not always on shift). They made me quite welcome and we closed the place every night for a week.

    The most memorable was the one girl telling me, in german, before we sat down together the first time after regular work hours: “Be careful. The GIRLS here can drink more than your men.”

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sean

    When I was in Moscow in 2001, there were vodka drunks lying on the sidewalks, but the college students drank beer, which gave me some optimism along the lines of Hogarth’s 1700s paintings Gin Alley vs. Beer Lane.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Steve Sailer


    When I was in Moscow in 2001, there were vodka drunks lying on the sidewalks
     
    Things had sure changed, by the time I got there, a couple of years ago.
  292. @Known Fact
    @Anonymous

    Russia also has that grand history and tradition of classical music

    Replies: @vinteuil

    Russia also has that grand history and tradition of classical music

    Indeed. Where is the American Tchaikovsky, or Mussorgsky, or Stravinsky, or Prokofiev, or Shostakovich? Some of the works of Samuel Barber, Aaron Copland &c are pleasant enough to listen to, but c’mon – they’re not even playing in the same ballpark.

    And the same goes for literature. With all due respect to Mark Twain et al, Dostoevsky leaves every American writer who ever drew breath far behind in the dust.

    And don’t even get me started on the relative merits of Ilya Repin and the vile French faggots, soon followed by the even viler New York Schoot faggots, who turned painting from an art into a business.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    And what of Rimsky, who made Mussorgsky listenable, or the sublime Borodin?

    What is it about D that you don't like about T (you know who I mean)?

    Repin is more than great; not only America, but Europe too, had no one contemporaneous to equal him.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @vinteuil, @vinteuil

  293. @Steve Sailer
    @RadicalCenter

    When I was in Moscow in 2001, there were vodka drunks lying on the sidewalks, but the college students drank beer, which gave me some optimism along the lines of Hogarth's 1700s paintings Gin Alley vs. Beer Lane.

    Replies: @vinteuil

    When I was in Moscow in 2001, there were vodka drunks lying on the sidewalks

    Things had sure changed, by the time I got there, a couple of years ago.

  294. @vinteuil
    @Known Fact


    Russia also has that grand history and tradition of classical music
     
    Indeed. Where is the American Tchaikovsky, or Mussorgsky, or Stravinsky, or Prokofiev, or Shostakovich? Some of the works of Samuel Barber, Aaron Copland &c are pleasant enough to listen to, but c'mon - they're not even playing in the same ballpark.

    And the same goes for literature. With all due respect to Mark Twain et al, Dostoevsky leaves every American writer who ever drew breath far behind in the dust.

    And don't even get me started on the relative merits of Ilya Repin and the vile French faggots, soon followed by the even viler New York Schoot faggots, who turned painting from an art into a business.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    And what of Rimsky, who made Mussorgsky listenable, or the sublime Borodin?

    What is it about D that you don’t like about T (you know who I mean)?

    Repin is more than great; not only America, but Europe too, had no one contemporaneous to equal him.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan


    ...what of Rimsky, who made Mussorgsky listenable...
     
    Well, he made him more easily listenable.

    ...or the sublime Borodin?
     
    What can I say, but that I'm in awe of the guy? A path-breaking chemist who (almost) found time to (almost) compose an (almost) great opera.

    Repin is more than great; not only America, but Europe too, had no one contemporaneous to equal him.
     
    No kidding.
    , @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan

    Years ago, I used to hang out on a blog called "The Forvm," which I'd guess is probably defunct by now, where there was this commenter who went by the handle "Mad Russian," who introduced me to the works of Repin, previously unknown to me, despite many years of studying art history & theory.

    I wish I could find him again & thank him.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    , @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan


    What is it about D that you don’t like about T (you know who I mean)?
     
    Briefly: when I read through The Idiot, or Demons, or Crime & Punishment, or, God help me, The Brothers Karamazov, I constantly find myself thinking: "wow - that's what people are really like, and I never noticed it, before."

    (This is also the greatness of Proust).

    But when I read through Anna Karenina, I often (not constantly, but often), find myself thinking: this wealthy jerk hasn't the first clue about what people are really like. I don't believe this for a second.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

  295. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Known Fact

    Thank you, K.F.! Sometimes, I can't get my thoughts into the right words. Your reply to Jack here made me think of my problem with these masks better.

    I believe this is a massive bout of stupidity brought on by a 6 month-long (with a slight intermission) Infotainment Panic-Fest (kinda like Shark-fest week). I don't care how stupid people want to be, if it doesn't involve coercing me to pay for it or, especially, be a part of it. Wearing the mask makes me feel like I'm a part of the stupidity, and I don't want that.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    As if to prove my point, a Wisconsin state agency wants its employees to wear masks on Zoom meetings — just to keep the visual propaganda front and center

  296. @botazefa
    @HA


    If a terrorist or a bolt of lightning picks off one kid in a crowd of hundreds, it’s perfectly understandable that every one of those left unscathed will henceforth regard himself or herself as being “one of the lucky ones” on that day, given their brush with death.
     
    As one of the 7 billion who wasn't struck, I don't feel lucky that particular bolt didn't hit me. Why would I?

    Covid-19 kills very few, relatively. To be symptomatic is very unlucky. Maybe that's more in line with what you intended to convey?

    Replies: @HA

    “As one of the 7 billion who wasn’t struck, I don’t feel lucky that particular bolt didn’t hit me. Why would I?”

    The previous argument referred to those in the vicinity of the lightning bolt, (i.e. a “crowd”) not the entire population of the planet. The comment before that referred to a consisting of those who get sick — again, not the entire human race — so I don’t see how your observation is relevant.

    In any case, the vast majority of us can agree there’s no deception or effort to mislead in observing that living another day is luckier than getting shot in the head, and that was my original rationale for using the term. Surviving a round of Russian roulette is likewise considered to be luckier than a bullet in the brain (assuming you didn’t pull the trigger as part of a death wish), regardless of the fact that the odds were overwhelmingly in your favor.

    This argument is about as asinine as “that guy” who reminds us that the Halloween costume is actually of Frankenstein’s monster, not Frankenstein. except at least that guy has the virtue of being correct.

  297. @RadicalCenter
    @HA

    You’re of course right, HA, that sensible safety precautions sometimes meet with shortsighted objections. But the analogy to seat belts does not fly, in several respects.

    First, using seat belts does not undermine normal human interaction, display of emotion, seeing each other smile, getting to know each other (and express humor, care, etc.) through facial expressions and cues, like wearing masks does.

    Second, there is no basis to reasonably doubt the efficacy and worthwhileness of wearing seat belts, while there certainly a basis to doubt the efficacy and worthwhileness of wearing masks on a regular basis.

    Also, i wonder whether subsequent research has undermined this 2015 hospital study’s understanding of masks, including the very limited utility of cloth masks and the health risks of wearing those masks:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/

    Moreover, even if everyone had N95 masks AND always wore them AND wore them properly, it would still be overkill for reasonably healthy people to wear them outside perhaps hospitals and nursing homes — the product of indoctrination through repetition and fear, ridicule of opposing viewpoints, and the resultant mass hysteria.

    As for me and my family, we will show our smiles to the world, shake hands at a pleasant encounter, breathe the air freely, enjoy the sun on our face, attend church where and when and with whom we please, gather with family or friends as we please as (formerly semi-)free people, and most of all: have our children be normal healthy children happily playing and jostling and — horrors — even wrestling together.

    Conversely, if we visit a facility where elderly and/or ailing people are concentrated, like a hospital or nursing home, we will wear masks whether it is required or not.

    Time to calm down, think for ourselves, demand sound medical evidence, trials, and reasoning for all the police state’s claims, and LIVE FREE.

    Anyone who is too afraid to go outside his home without a mask, whether rationally because of a serious respiratory or other condition — or more often IRrationally — has always been free to wear a mask. Leave us and most of all our children the Hell alone.

    Replies: @HA

    “But the analogy to seat belts does not fly, in several respects…First, using seat belts does not undermine normal human interaction, display of emotion, seeing each other smile, getting to know each other (and express humor, care, etc.) through facial expressions and cues, like wearing masks does.”

    An analogy doesn’t have to be perfect in order to get a point across, and I’m not persuaded by your “my pain is so much greater than their pain” arguments (which also start sounding eerily analogous if you’ve heard one after another). I agree that for many of those throwing tantrums over being asked to wear masks during a pandemic, “normal human interaction” — as you define it — is something so vital that we are permitted to melt like little snowflakes if it is compromised in any way.

    But for the analogous tantrum-throwers back in the day when seat belts were first legislated, it was the unencumbered “freedom of the road” — i.e. not having to be strapped in by a “car-girdle” or whatever another derogatory phrase they invoked so as to seem clever –that made life in America special.

    For me, both tantrums are more similar than they are different, though I realize that the key feature of being a fragile snowflake is the insistence of being special and unique, and people in both groups will argue over who gets to wear that crown (which again, just makes them more similar than different). And they can both agree that a cruel fascist nanny-state has yet again deprived us freedom-loving-Americans of something we had come to regard as supremely important (cue that Ben Franklin quote about security and liberty) and in both cases, a group of people got lost in their fragility just couldn’t deal. Oh, the tragedy….let me stop for a minute, while I take it all in. Forget those who had to cower underground during the Blitz, or in Dresden. If you want real deprivation, consider, if you dare, the horror…the horror… of having to strap on a thin strip of fabric. That’s the image that Orwell should have left us with, not some silly boot stamping on a face. I mean, what’s the big deal about being stamped in the face with a boot? But a face mask — oh, now you’re talking.

    So anyway, the analogy, while not perfect, works pretty well, and yeah, I think we all get it.

    Actually, the real spoiler to the analogy is that COVID, unlike a car wreck, is contagious, but I’m guessing you’ll like that observation even less.

  298. @RadicalCenter
    @Sean

    Russians buy FAR less alcohol per capita than they did just ten years ago, and beer and wine apparently have displaced ultrahigh-alcohol spirits like vodka as the most popular type of drink. Even wikipedia, which seems to want to make russia look as bad as possible, reports this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_in_Russia

    Citation for your claim, please?

    ......

    Having said that, I drank the smoothest, most non-alcohol-tasting vodka (“horilka”) in Ukraine some years ago. All too easy to drink. A really fun experience throwing back a couple shots with wait staff and customers whom i met at a restaurant i frequented during my visit there. But it was rather alarming how much they could drink, at least that particular group. (That is not russia, of course, and it was over ten years ago.).

    We communicated partly in German, as one of the waitresses had studied it in high school and could get by. Between my american accent in german and her even stronger ukie accent in german, it was not easy, but thank God we had that common language (only one could speak fairly well in english and he was not always on shift). They made me quite welcome and we closed the place every night for a week.

    The most memorable was the one girl telling me, in german, before we sat down together the first time after regular work hours: “Be careful. The GIRLS here can drink more than your men.”

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sean

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-russia-alcohol/coronavirus-lockdown-drives-jump-in-vodka-and-whisky-sales-in-russia-idUSKCN21R171

    In the last week of March, vodka sales across Russia’s largest retail chains jumped 31% in year-on-year terms … a belief among many Russians that alcohol offers some protection against the new coronavirus.

  299. @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    And what of Rimsky, who made Mussorgsky listenable, or the sublime Borodin?

    What is it about D that you don't like about T (you know who I mean)?

    Repin is more than great; not only America, but Europe too, had no one contemporaneous to equal him.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @vinteuil, @vinteuil

    …what of Rimsky, who made Mussorgsky listenable…

    Well, he made him more easily listenable.

    …or the sublime Borodin?

    What can I say, but that I’m in awe of the guy? A path-breaking chemist who (almost) found time to (almost) compose an (almost) great opera.

    Repin is more than great; not only America, but Europe too, had no one contemporaneous to equal him.

    No kidding.

  300. @Paleo Liberal
    @John Johnson

    The Space Race had four benefits:

    1. Propaganda. The USSR was using their initial leads as proof that Communism was better. Beating them to the Moon ended that. Far better to spend the money on rockets when only a few died than spend the money on a deadly war.

    2. Spending wars. The Space Race, along with the Arms Race, were wars of attrition. See which side can afford to burn a lot if money. Sort of like the potlatch of the NW tribes— see who can toss away the most possessions. Again, better than spending the money on the war in Vietnam for example.

    3. Economic boost. Just the fact that a lot of money was being spent was good for the economy. One famous scientist called it “building pyramids”. Good for the economy even if the money is wasted.

    4, Technology. Here is the best benefit. It turns out the microcomputer technology developed as part of the Space Race was the foundation of the computer technology we have enjoyed these past few decades. Each dollar spent on the Space Race wound up producing many dollars of economic boost in later decades due to technological advances.

    Replies: @Yngvar

    3. Economic boost. Just the fact that a lot of money was being spent was good for the economy.

    The government haven’t got a dollar it didn’t take from someone. And those taxpayers would have spent it too, had they been given the chance. Therefore; no boost.

  301. @Mr. Anon
    @JohnPlywood


    Sorry, but you’re a non-German who is intimidated and angered by the fact that the modern world is largely a German idea.
     
    I am not intimidated by a non-fact.

    There was nothing “Alex Jonesy” about my post.
     
    Sure there was - Red Mercury and "Die Glocke".

    And Switzerland wasn't part of the German Empire. Nor was the Netherlands.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    And Switzerland wasn’t part of the German Empire. Nor was the Netherlands.

    They were both formally part of the German Empire until 1648.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous


    They were both formally part of the German Empire until 1648.
     
    No, Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation.

    The "German Empire" was a post-1870 affair.
  302. An analogy doesn’t have to be perfect in order to get a point across,

    Certain types just can’t handle analogies, but frame it as if there’s something wrong with any analogy that gets in their way. They seem to have a problem with the very concept, which by definition is imperfect; if it was perfect, it wouldn’t be an analogy.

    E.g., from askdefine.com:

    drawing a comparison in order to show a similarity in some respect

    A “similarity” in “some respect.”

    E.g., I recently had some boomer yankee sack of crap tell me that using the analogy of the Union as an abusive, murderous husband who wouldn’t let his battered Confederate wife leave him to illustrate the fact that the Union’s behavior was indefensible (slavery/infidelity being immaterial) is “a bad analogy because the Union wasn’t a marriage.” In other words, he doesn’t know what an analogy is.

    • Agree: vinteuil, Lurker
  303. @Anonymous
    @Mr. Anon


    And Switzerland wasn’t part of the German Empire. Nor was the Netherlands.
     
    They were both formally part of the German Empire until 1648.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    They were both formally part of the German Empire until 1648.

    No, Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation.

    The “German Empire” was a post-1870 affair.

  304. @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    And what of Rimsky, who made Mussorgsky listenable, or the sublime Borodin?

    What is it about D that you don't like about T (you know who I mean)?

    Repin is more than great; not only America, but Europe too, had no one contemporaneous to equal him.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @vinteuil, @vinteuil

    Years ago, I used to hang out on a blog called “The Forvm,” which I’d guess is probably defunct by now, where there was this commenter who went by the handle “Mad Russian,” who introduced me to the works of Repin, previously unknown to me, despite many years of studying art history & theory.

    I wish I could find him again & thank him.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    My introduction to his work was political (not Repin's own politics, which were disconcertingly liberal) but those of one of his subjects: Konstantin Pobedonostsev, ultra-reactionary to a delirious degree (and thus highly approved of by me). Repin's preliminary oil sketch of him for his Russian State Council of 1901 so impressed me that I quickly discovered and came to passionately admire his other works.

    But in fact, without realising it, I had known of at least one example of his work from childhood: the famous and brilliant portrait of a sozzled and soon to be dead Mussorgsky. I might even have then glanced at the name, but in 1960 there was no way, even in Palo Alto, to find out much more of interest about a Russian artist of his period.

    The internet, in other words, does have its uses.

    Replies: @vinteuil

  305. @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    And what of Rimsky, who made Mussorgsky listenable, or the sublime Borodin?

    What is it about D that you don't like about T (you know who I mean)?

    Repin is more than great; not only America, but Europe too, had no one contemporaneous to equal him.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @vinteuil, @vinteuil

    What is it about D that you don’t like about T (you know who I mean)?

    Briefly: when I read through The Idiot, or Demons, or Crime & Punishment, or, God help me, The Brothers Karamazov, I constantly find myself thinking: “wow – that’s what people are really like, and I never noticed it, before.”

    (This is also the greatness of Proust).

    But when I read through Anna Karenina, I often (not constantly, but often), find myself thinking: this wealthy jerk hasn’t the first clue about what people are really like. I don’t believe this for a second.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    My reactions to both have always been precisely the opposite.

    Replies: @vinteuil

  306. @Corvinus
    @Sollipsist

    "The fact that ICUs are unequipped to handle anything unprecedented is not a compelling reason to do anything but increase the capacity of ICUs."

    To the contrary, if ICU's are inundated with specifically Covid-19 patients, then what about those individuals who suffer from heart attacks/strokes, gun shot wounds, or other life-threatening conditions? Their chances for recovery are put at a significant disadvantage. Moreover, the physical and emotional toil put on medical professionals who work in an environment that is constantly shifting is stunning.

    "In the 21st Century alone, we’ve seen three flu seasons (and countless individual weekends) bad enough to cause major metropolitan hospitals to exceed ICU capacity."

    Sources? Furthermore, if true, that would be during the FLU SEASON. Notice that Covid-19 has no season.

    Replies: @Sollipsist

    There’s more like this. In each one, the spokesman always stresses how “unprecedented” the situation is, which brings to mind the timeless words of Inigo Montoya.

    https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Sollipsist

    Except Covid-19 is NOT the flu. Furthermore, this global pandemic is unprecedented in how our government compared to other governments lacked a cohesive, consistent response.

    Replies: @Sollipsist

  307. @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan

    Years ago, I used to hang out on a blog called "The Forvm," which I'd guess is probably defunct by now, where there was this commenter who went by the handle "Mad Russian," who introduced me to the works of Repin, previously unknown to me, despite many years of studying art history & theory.

    I wish I could find him again & thank him.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    My introduction to his work was political (not Repin’s own politics, which were disconcertingly liberal) but those of one of his subjects: Konstantin Pobedonostsev, ultra-reactionary to a delirious degree (and thus highly approved of by me). Repin’s preliminary oil sketch of him for his Russian State Council of 1901 so impressed me that I quickly discovered and came to passionately admire his other works.

    But in fact, without realising it, I had known of at least one example of his work from childhood: the famous and brilliant portrait of a sozzled and soon to be dead Mussorgsky. I might even have then glanced at the name, but in 1960 there was no way, even in Palo Alto, to find out much more of interest about a Russian artist of his period.

    The internet, in other words, does have its uses.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan


    Repin’s preliminary oil sketch of [Konstantin Pobedonostsev] for his Russian State Council of 1901 so impressed me that I quickly discovered and came to passionately admire his other works.
     
    Last time I made it to the Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow (which I dearly hope will not be the last time!) they had a huge exhibition arranged around that amazing painting, including all of the preliminary works that could be assembled. A model for how curators should do their job.

    I had known of at least one example of his work from childhood: the famous and brilliant portrait of a sozzled and soon to be dead Mussorgsky
     
    Indeed. His portraits of Glinka & Rimsky-Korsakov are wonderful - but the one of Mussorgsky...there's just no more to be said.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

  308. @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan


    What is it about D that you don’t like about T (you know who I mean)?
     
    Briefly: when I read through The Idiot, or Demons, or Crime & Punishment, or, God help me, The Brothers Karamazov, I constantly find myself thinking: "wow - that's what people are really like, and I never noticed it, before."

    (This is also the greatness of Proust).

    But when I read through Anna Karenina, I often (not constantly, but often), find myself thinking: this wealthy jerk hasn't the first clue about what people are really like. I don't believe this for a second.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    My reactions to both have always been precisely the opposite.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan

    Well, War & Peace is on deck, now (once again - this will be my fourth or fifth try). So maybe this time I'll change my mind.

    But there seems to be an unbridgeable Dostoevsky/Tolstoy divide, and I'm probably irretrievably on the Dostoevsky side of that divide.

    It's probably a matter of inborn sensibility. Just like you can't stand Mahler (as I recall), while I can't resist him.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

  309. @Sollipsist
    @Corvinus

    There's more like this. In each one, the spokesman always stresses how "unprecedented" the situation is, which brings to mind the timeless words of Inigo Montoya.

    https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Except Covid-19 is NOT the flu. Furthermore, this global pandemic is unprecedented in how our government compared to other governments lacked a cohesive, consistent response.

    • Replies: @Sollipsist
    @Corvinus

    Fair enough. But it's still debatable whether the epidemic on its own could have wreaked more havoc than any of the containment policies. Except of course for Sweden's...

    Replies: @Corvinus

  310. @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    My reactions to both have always been precisely the opposite.

    Replies: @vinteuil

    Well, War & Peace is on deck, now (once again – this will be my fourth or fifth try). So maybe this time I’ll change my mind.

    But there seems to be an unbridgeable Dostoevsky/Tolstoy divide, and I’m probably irretrievably on the Dostoevsky side of that divide.

    It’s probably a matter of inborn sensibility. Just like you can’t stand Mahler (as I recall), while I can’t resist him.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    I do indeed loathe Mahler, and deny him any smidgen of true genius (or even the appearance of it). But it is hard to see what divide there might be between him and another composer - Bruckner perhaps?

    The Dostoevsky/Tolstoy divide is clear, as would be the Chesterton/Belloc one or the Dickens/Trollope one or, to strike further afield, the Descartes/Leibnitz one, then Plato/Aristotle, and St Paul/St John.

    Just one more: Euripides/Aeschylus.

    I'm with the second, all the way through.

    Replies: @vinteuil

  311. @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    My introduction to his work was political (not Repin's own politics, which were disconcertingly liberal) but those of one of his subjects: Konstantin Pobedonostsev, ultra-reactionary to a delirious degree (and thus highly approved of by me). Repin's preliminary oil sketch of him for his Russian State Council of 1901 so impressed me that I quickly discovered and came to passionately admire his other works.

    But in fact, without realising it, I had known of at least one example of his work from childhood: the famous and brilliant portrait of a sozzled and soon to be dead Mussorgsky. I might even have then glanced at the name, but in 1960 there was no way, even in Palo Alto, to find out much more of interest about a Russian artist of his period.

    The internet, in other words, does have its uses.

    Replies: @vinteuil

    Repin’s preliminary oil sketch of [Konstantin Pobedonostsev] for his Russian State Council of 1901 so impressed me that I quickly discovered and came to passionately admire his other works.

    Last time I made it to the Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow (which I dearly hope will not be the last time!) they had a huge exhibition arranged around that amazing painting, including all of the preliminary works that could be assembled. A model for how curators should do their job.

    I had known of at least one example of his work from childhood: the famous and brilliant portrait of a sozzled and soon to be dead Mussorgsky

    Indeed. His portraits of Glinka & Rimsky-Korsakov are wonderful – but the one of Mussorgsky…there’s just no more to be said.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    In my case the one more thing to be said is that I sometimes blame my very early exposure to this portrait as the beginning of my love affair with failure.
    Luckily I didn't carry through with it much later than my teens. I had a friend who did, and the end wasn't pretty - nor even picturesque, like poor M.

  312. @Corvinus
    @Sollipsist

    Except Covid-19 is NOT the flu. Furthermore, this global pandemic is unprecedented in how our government compared to other governments lacked a cohesive, consistent response.

    Replies: @Sollipsist

    Fair enough. But it’s still debatable whether the epidemic on its own could have wreaked more havoc than any of the containment policies. Except of course for Sweden’s…

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Sollipsist

    "Except of course for Sweden’s…"

    Here is what Sweden has to offer regarding its policies.

    https://www.newsweek.com/sweden-emails-anders-tegnell-johan-giesecke-herd-immunity-coronavirus-1524847


    As noted by the BBC, in a country of about 10 million people, statistics indicate that the country has had one of the highest death rates (compared to population size) in Europe, despite bans on gatherings and shifting to table service in bars and restaurants.

    In June, [Sweden’s state epidemiologist Anders] Tegnell conceded that too many citizens had died. “If we were to encounter the same disease again… I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” he said, the BBC reported.
     
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251615-is-swedens-coronavirus-strategy-a-cautionary-tale-or-a-success-story/

    Those who regard the strategy as a success claim it reduced the economic impact, but it isn’t clear that it did. What is clear is that so far Sweden has had a more protracted outbreak with far more deaths per capita than its neighbours. While it is sometimes implied that Sweden didn’t have a lockdown, it did. It was just largely voluntary, with only a few legal measures such as a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people…So there was a substantial voluntary lockdown in Sweden – yet it wasn’t nearly as effective in reducing the spread of the coronavirus as the compulsory lockdowns in neighbouring Denmark and Norway. Cases and deaths rose faster in Sweden and have been slower to decline.
     
    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-08-covid-herd-immunity-sweden-materialize.html

    The health authorities predicted that 40% of the Stockholm population would have had the disease and acquired antibodies by May 2020. However, the actual prevalence figure was around 15%. While clinical and research findings suggest that severely infected COVID-19 patients do acquire antibodies in the immediate and early recovery phase of their illness, antibodies are much less commonly found in only mildly ill or asymptomatic patients. This means they are very likely not to be immune, and so cannot act as a bulwark against further spread of infection amongst the community.
     

    Replies: @Sollipsist

  313. @Sollipsist
    @Corvinus

    Fair enough. But it's still debatable whether the epidemic on its own could have wreaked more havoc than any of the containment policies. Except of course for Sweden's...

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Except of course for Sweden’s…”

    Here is what Sweden has to offer regarding its policies.

    https://www.newsweek.com/sweden-emails-anders-tegnell-johan-giesecke-herd-immunity-coronavirus-1524847

    As noted by the BBC, in a country of about 10 million people, statistics indicate that the country has had one of the highest death rates (compared to population size) in Europe, despite bans on gatherings and shifting to table service in bars and restaurants.

    In June, [Sweden’s state epidemiologist Anders] Tegnell conceded that too many citizens had died. “If we were to encounter the same disease again… I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” he said, the BBC reported.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251615-is-swedens-coronavirus-strategy-a-cautionary-tale-or-a-success-story/

    Those who regard the strategy as a success claim it reduced the economic impact, but it isn’t clear that it did. What is clear is that so far Sweden has had a more protracted outbreak with far more deaths per capita than its neighbours. While it is sometimes implied that Sweden didn’t have a lockdown, it did. It was just largely voluntary, with only a few legal measures such as a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people…So there was a substantial voluntary lockdown in Sweden – yet it wasn’t nearly as effective in reducing the spread of the coronavirus as the compulsory lockdowns in neighbouring Denmark and Norway. Cases and deaths rose faster in Sweden and have been slower to decline.

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-08-covid-herd-immunity-sweden-materialize.html

    The health authorities predicted that 40% of the Stockholm population would have had the disease and acquired antibodies by May 2020. However, the actual prevalence figure was around 15%. While clinical and research findings suggest that severely infected COVID-19 patients do acquire antibodies in the immediate and early recovery phase of their illness, antibodies are much less commonly found in only mildly ill or asymptomatic patients. This means they are very likely not to be immune, and so cannot act as a bulwark against further spread of infection amongst the community.

    • Replies: @Sollipsist
    @Corvinus

    Maybe by the end of the year they'll have even caught up to the rest of the world. Should that happen, I'll be man enough to admit that their approach was at least no better.

    Although considering my heightened risk factors and level of exposure in Trump's 'bungled' America, I may have to admit it via Ouija board...

  314. @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan


    Repin’s preliminary oil sketch of [Konstantin Pobedonostsev] for his Russian State Council of 1901 so impressed me that I quickly discovered and came to passionately admire his other works.
     
    Last time I made it to the Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow (which I dearly hope will not be the last time!) they had a huge exhibition arranged around that amazing painting, including all of the preliminary works that could be assembled. A model for how curators should do their job.

    I had known of at least one example of his work from childhood: the famous and brilliant portrait of a sozzled and soon to be dead Mussorgsky
     
    Indeed. His portraits of Glinka & Rimsky-Korsakov are wonderful - but the one of Mussorgsky...there's just no more to be said.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    In my case the one more thing to be said is that I sometimes blame my very early exposure to this portrait as the beginning of my love affair with failure.
    Luckily I didn’t carry through with it much later than my teens. I had a friend who did, and the end wasn’t pretty – nor even picturesque, like poor M.

  315. @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan

    Well, War & Peace is on deck, now (once again - this will be my fourth or fifth try). So maybe this time I'll change my mind.

    But there seems to be an unbridgeable Dostoevsky/Tolstoy divide, and I'm probably irretrievably on the Dostoevsky side of that divide.

    It's probably a matter of inborn sensibility. Just like you can't stand Mahler (as I recall), while I can't resist him.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan

    I do indeed loathe Mahler, and deny him any smidgen of true genius (or even the appearance of it). But it is hard to see what divide there might be between him and another composer – Bruckner perhaps?

    The Dostoevsky/Tolstoy divide is clear, as would be the Chesterton/Belloc one or the Dickens/Trollope one or, to strike further afield, the Descartes/Leibnitz one, then Plato/Aristotle, and St Paul/St John.

    Just one more: Euripides/Aeschylus.

    I’m with the second, all the way through.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Old Palo Altan

    Hmmm...Dostoevsky is to Tolstoy as Mahler is to...Bruckner?

    No, that doesn't work - not for me, anyway. I am even more in love with Bruckner's symphonies than I am with Mahler's.

    I guess the obvious Tolstoy equivalent would be Brahms.

    But that doesn't work, either - again, not for me, anyway, since I never find Brahms the least bit annoying.

  316. @Corvinus
    @Sollipsist

    "Except of course for Sweden’s…"

    Here is what Sweden has to offer regarding its policies.

    https://www.newsweek.com/sweden-emails-anders-tegnell-johan-giesecke-herd-immunity-coronavirus-1524847


    As noted by the BBC, in a country of about 10 million people, statistics indicate that the country has had one of the highest death rates (compared to population size) in Europe, despite bans on gatherings and shifting to table service in bars and restaurants.

    In June, [Sweden’s state epidemiologist Anders] Tegnell conceded that too many citizens had died. “If we were to encounter the same disease again… I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” he said, the BBC reported.
     
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251615-is-swedens-coronavirus-strategy-a-cautionary-tale-or-a-success-story/

    Those who regard the strategy as a success claim it reduced the economic impact, but it isn’t clear that it did. What is clear is that so far Sweden has had a more protracted outbreak with far more deaths per capita than its neighbours. While it is sometimes implied that Sweden didn’t have a lockdown, it did. It was just largely voluntary, with only a few legal measures such as a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people…So there was a substantial voluntary lockdown in Sweden – yet it wasn’t nearly as effective in reducing the spread of the coronavirus as the compulsory lockdowns in neighbouring Denmark and Norway. Cases and deaths rose faster in Sweden and have been slower to decline.
     
    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-08-covid-herd-immunity-sweden-materialize.html

    The health authorities predicted that 40% of the Stockholm population would have had the disease and acquired antibodies by May 2020. However, the actual prevalence figure was around 15%. While clinical and research findings suggest that severely infected COVID-19 patients do acquire antibodies in the immediate and early recovery phase of their illness, antibodies are much less commonly found in only mildly ill or asymptomatic patients. This means they are very likely not to be immune, and so cannot act as a bulwark against further spread of infection amongst the community.
     

    Replies: @Sollipsist

    Maybe by the end of the year they’ll have even caught up to the rest of the world. Should that happen, I’ll be man enough to admit that their approach was at least no better.

    Although considering my heightened risk factors and level of exposure in Trump’s ‘bungled’ America, I may have to admit it via Ouija board…

  317. @Old Palo Altan
    @vinteuil

    I do indeed loathe Mahler, and deny him any smidgen of true genius (or even the appearance of it). But it is hard to see what divide there might be between him and another composer - Bruckner perhaps?

    The Dostoevsky/Tolstoy divide is clear, as would be the Chesterton/Belloc one or the Dickens/Trollope one or, to strike further afield, the Descartes/Leibnitz one, then Plato/Aristotle, and St Paul/St John.

    Just one more: Euripides/Aeschylus.

    I'm with the second, all the way through.

    Replies: @vinteuil

    Hmmm…Dostoevsky is to Tolstoy as Mahler is to…Bruckner?

    No, that doesn’t work – not for me, anyway. I am even more in love with Bruckner’s symphonies than I am with Mahler’s.

    I guess the obvious Tolstoy equivalent would be Brahms.

    But that doesn’t work, either – again, not for me, anyway, since I never find Brahms the least bit annoying.

  318. I was hesitant about it, and did actually think of Brahms first.

    But I’ll stick with Bruckner. Why? Well, for the same reason I prefer Belloc over Chesterton. Both are trying to do the same thing, or working for the same cause. It’s just that one does it much better than the other. Bruckner is a better Mahler in other words.

    But in the end I rather like, or at least find amusing, Brahms’s indifference bordering on contempt for Bruckner’s symphonies.

    I’ll bet he would have been withering had he lived to hear any of Mahler’s later attempts at profundity. I don’t need to tell you that he had already heard enough by the time of his death to tell Mahler to stick to conducting.

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