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Thomas Friedman of the NYT is in Africa. His first column about the increasing inundation we can expect from the booming population of the Sahel a week ago caused the NYT shut off comments after only 84 because most of the commenters focused on Friedman’s subversive details, such as the would-be immigrant with three wives and 17 children. Now he’s written a more carefully crafted column about how the Camp of Saints is the fault of Climate Change, so the NYT allowed 183 comments, most of them still bringing up the inconvenient truth of overpopulation, before shutting down the comments.

Out of Africa, Part II
Thomas L. Friedman APRIL 20, 2016

Ndiamaguene, SENEGAL — I am visiting Ndiamaguene village in the far northwest of Senegal. If I were giving you directions I’d tell you that it’s the last stop after the last stop — it’s the village after the highway ends, after the paved road ends, after the gravel road ends and after the desert track ends. Turn left at the last baobab tree.

It’s worth the trek, though, if you’re looking for the headwaters of the immigration flood now flowing from Africa to Europe via Libya. It starts here. …

There are almost no young or middle-aged men in this village of 300. They’re gone.

It wasn’t disease. They’ve all hit the road. The village’s climate-hammered farmlands can no longer sustain them, and with so many kids — 42 percent of Senegal’s population is under 14 years old — there are too many mouths to feed from the declining yields. So the men have scattered to the four winds in search of any job that will pay them enough to live on and send some money back to their wives or parents. …

“We are mostly farmers, and we depend on farming, but it is not working now,” the village chief, Ndiougua Ndiaye, explained to me in Wolof, through a translator. After a series of on/off droughts in the 1970s and 1980s, the weather patterns stabilized a bit, “until about 10 years ago,” the chief added. Then, the weather got really weird….

Has he ever heard of something called “climate change”? I asked. “We heard about it on the radio, and we have seen it with our own eyes,” he answered. The temperature is different. The winds are different. They’re hot when they should be cold.

The chief’s impressions are not wrong. Senegal’s national weather bureau says that from 1950 to 2015, the average temperature in the country rose two degrees Celsius, much faster than anticipated, and since 1950, the average annual rainfall has declined by about 50 millimeters (about two inches). So the men of Ndiamaguene have no choice but to migrate to bigger towns or out of the country. …

Gardens or walls? It’s really not a choice. We have to help them fix their gardens because no walls will keep them home.

Except for Israel’s walls, which seem to work fine.

Anyway, I’m all in favor of teaching sub-Saharans how to stop turning their farmlands into the Sahara. But, teaching better farming techniques won’t employ the surplus population of these super-high fertility countries:

RANK COUNTRY (CHILDREN BORN/WOMAN) DATE OF INFORMATION
1 NIGER 6.76 2015 EST.
2 BURUNDI 6.09 2015 EST.
3 MALI 6.06 2015 EST.
4 SOMALIA 5.99 2015 EST.
5 UGANDA 5.89 2015 EST.
6 BURKINA FASO 5.86 2015 EST.
7 ZAMBIA 5.72 2015 EST.
8 MALAWI 5.60 2015 EST.
9 ANGOLA 5.37 2015 EST.
10 AFGHANISTAN 5.33 2015 EST.
11 SOUTH SUDAN 5.31 2015 EST.
12 MOZAMBIQUE 5.21 2015 EST.
13 NIGERIA 5.19 2015 EST.
14 ETHIOPIA 5.15 2015 EST.
15 TIMOR-LESTE 5.01 2015 EST.
16 BENIN 4.95 2015 EST.
17 TANZANIA 4.89 2015 EST.
18 GUINEA 4.88 2015 EST.
19 SIERRA LEONE 4.80 2015 EST.
20 CAMEROON 4.76 2015 EST.
21 LIBERIA 4.70 2015 EST.
22 CONGO, REPUBLIC OF THE 4.68 2015 EST.
23 CONGO, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE 4.66 2015 EST.
24 EQUATORIAL GUINEA 4.57 2015 EST.
25 CHAD 4.55 2015 EST.
26 SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE 4.54 2015 EST.
27 RWANDA 4.53 2015 EST.
28 TOGO 4.48 2015 EST.
29 GABON 4.46 2015 EST.
30 SENEGAL 4.44 2015 EST.
31 CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC 4.41 2015 EST.
32 GUINEA-BISSAU 4.23 2015 EST.
33 MADAGASCAR 4.20 2015 EST.
34 IRAQ 4.12 2015 EST.
35 GAZA STRIP 4.08 2015 EST.
36 GHANA 4.06 2015 EST.
37 ERITREA 4.02 2015 EST.
38 WESTERN SAHARA 4.00 2015 EST.
39 MAURITANIA 4.00 2015 EST.

Agriculture is extremely susceptible to productivity increase. Have you ever driven across farm regions of the U.S. and looked for a farmer farming? That last time I drove I-80 in summer I didn’t see a single farmworker working in the fields (I saw one guy driving a pickup truck through the fields, presumably on some farming related task, but that was it.) The exception was, of course, Amish areas, where there are huge numbers of people working in the fields.

Raj Chetty’s list of the top 25 counties in America for combatting the scourge of income immobility, many of the best counties lost population in recent decades due to rapidly increasing agricultural productivity.

The thing to keep in mind about these 39 countries with at least 4 babies per woman is that it takes over a generation for a fertility fall to replacement to turn into a population growth halt. If their Total Fertility Rates fell to 2.1 tomorrow, there population would continue to rise for 40 or 50 years.

The most popular reader comment on Friedman’s column begins:

Mathias Weitz is a trusted commenter Frankfurt, Germany 20 hours ago

The african population doubled from 1982 to 2009, and quadrupled from 1955 to 2009. The main cause of the desertification in the sahel is overgrazing by an ever growing population. Also, the desertification of the sahara started already 10.000 years ago, so this is no recent phenomenon.

To blame climate chance for the exodus is scapegoating, overpopulation and the exhausting of resources is the real problem.

So you can see why the NYT had to close down commenting, fast.

 
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  1. HiI’m a religious person but there’s no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet. The problem is that rolling that back is next to impossible, so we are facing an end game massive destruction of biodiversity, massive loss of quality of life, and massive loss of life when the four horsemen arrive on the scene.

    It has nothing to do with climate change.

    Ultimately it’s gonna be a lifeboat problem and there’s gonna be guilt either way. Cheers!

    • Replies: @tris

    HiI’m a religious person but there’s no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet.
     
    overpopulation per se is not the issue, it's who is doing the overpopulating. Places like China and Holland have high population densities, but are able to modernize and practise sustainable farminig, so that those countries do not need to shed excess population onto someone else
    , @The Albino Sasquatch
    "when the four horsemen arrive on the scene" They're already here, and the party is just starting to warm up.
    , @AnotherDad

    HiI’m a religious person but there’s no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet. The problem is that rolling that back is next to impossible ...
     
    Mr. Moore ... it's not that bad.

    Actually about 3/4 of the land area of the planet already has or is very near sub-replacement fertility. US, Cananda, Europe, Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Australia already have sub-replacement fertility--far sub-replacement *native* fertility. Latin America is close. The more advanced muslim states are getting there. Even India and Indonesia have moved close--2.5.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate

    The more backward muslim states--eg. Pakistan--and *Africa* are the laggards--who must be contained.


    The problem is not overpopulation but *immigration*.

    The population numbers would have stabilized\be stabilizing across most of the world's surface *but* for the immigration insanity. If we could simply shut up these immigration cheerleaders, and end immigration, most of the world would quickly come into stability and even be enjoying the demographic dividend of declining population--more open space, cheaper housing, less crowded infrastructure, less .... pressured life.

    It's the immigration cheerleaders who are screwing up the world. Kill them off ... and it's a beautiful world.
  2. we need a division of labour. europeans take care of africa’s kids, and israelis worry about the mena’s excess population

    • Replies: @let it burn
    @we need a division of labour. europeans take care of africa’s kids

    one generation later, no europeans. europeans need to take care of their own. let gaia take care of the african.
  3. I wondered why that NY Times article had so few comments! Thought it might be an unusually busy day for the comment review staff, doing their taxes and returning phone calls. Did they really deliberately pull the plug early on the comments thread, because so many did not fit the Narrative? Very interesting if true.

    • Replies: @NickG
    The UK Daily Telegraph has reformatted its website and appears to have dispensed with comments.

    I confess that I often skim the article - because you can very often tell without a detailed parsing - exactly what the narrative in it is. The comments often prove far more interesting than the article.
  4. @Anonymous
    we need a division of labour. europeans take care of africa's kids, and israelis worry about the mena's excess population

    @we need a division of labour. europeans take care of africa’s kids

    one generation later, no europeans. europeans need to take care of their own. let gaia take care of the african.

  5. @Spmoore8
    HiI'm a religious person but there's no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet. The problem is that rolling that back is next to impossible, so we are facing an end game massive destruction of biodiversity, massive loss of quality of life, and massive loss of life when the four horsemen arrive on the scene.

    It has nothing to do with climate change.

    Ultimately it's gonna be a lifeboat problem and there's gonna be guilt either way. Cheers!

    HiI’m a religious person but there’s no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet.

    overpopulation per se is not the issue, it’s who is doing the overpopulating. Places like China and Holland have high population densities, but are able to modernize and practise sustainable farminig, so that those countries do not need to shed excess population onto someone else

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Yes, it's possible to achieve high population densities in some locations. Why? Holland has very little open space, and very little biodiversity. The continental US is about the size of China: can you imagine what it would look like if we were sustaining a population of 1.2 B or twice that? It would be hell on earth. The point of life is not to live as long as possible and surely the destiny of the human race is not to be as populous as possible.
  6. Of course global warming may actually be reversing desertification in the Sahara:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090731-green-sahara.html

    • Replies: @tris
    my gut feeling is that, in addition to the macro trend, the agricultural methods employed in northern Africa are mostly responsible for increased desertification. African farms don't have fences. They just keep roaming around untill nothing is left, then move on.
  7. The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan’s support for immigration restrictions.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. "

    Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites, I expect there to be in the next generation an olive complexioned race that's not quite fully white but also not quite a minority group. They will be net contributors like Italians (or if you don't view Italians in the US as net contributors they won't be any more detrimental than the US born generations of those immigrants).
    , @BB753
    Mexicans do not have an average IQ of "around 100", unless you meant well below 100.
    And don't be misled by nice fresh off-the-boat/plane immigrants, because they have to play nice at first to get a job and rent a house.
    First generation immigrant Arabs in Europe also seemed nice enough and see how it all turned out. Once there are large numbers of aliens, they don't have to pretend they're nice anymore. They segregate themselves and refuse to integrate and even obey the laws of the land.
    , @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ
    , @Erik Sieven
    "But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration?"
    A large part of the female population sees large benefits from the immigration of Subsaharan Africans, Arabs not so much.
    In the end it is more about the symbolic effect. Most single individuals of course do not benefit form immigration. But as individuals they would loose a lot by being racist. It is also like a prisoners dilemma
    , @Joe Walker
    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100

    Where did you get this "fact" from?
    , @anon

    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it.
     
    The media is effectively the nervous system of the body politic and the media are traitors.
    , @Massimo Heitor

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration?
     
    The Africans and Arabs. Among the ethnic Germans, the politicians. And those looking to boost their moral image.
  8. “Agriculture is extremely susceptible to productivity increase. Have you ever driven across farm regions of the U.S. and looked for a farmer farming? That last time I drove I-80 in summer I didn’t see a single farmworker working in the fields (I saw one guy driving a pickup truck through the fields, presumably on some farming related task, but that was it.) The exception was, of course, Amish areas, where there are huge numbers of people working in the fields.”

    Yep … How long before genius politicians, faced with cities full of unemployed youth, start to think FDR had it right with CCC, and how long before the next wave go all Pol Pot on that when the original idea doesn’t pan out as planned?

  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan's support for immigration restrictions.

    “The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. ”

    Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites, I expect there to be in the next generation an olive complexioned race that’s not quite fully white but also not quite a minority group. They will be net contributors like Italians (or if you don’t view Italians in the US as net contributors they won’t be any more detrimental than the US born generations of those immigrants).

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites,"

    That is 100 percent false. Where did you come up with that number?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Americans#Intermarriage

    It's 26 percent for U.S born Mexican women and 28 percent for U.S born Mexican men.

    "They will be net contributors like Italians"

    Mexicans have a significantly higher poverty rate than Italians in The U.S. Most Mexican K-12 public school students qualify for free lunch programs.
    , @Lot

    They will be net contributors like Italians
     
    Michael Barone, is that you?

    Italy per capita GDP: $35000
    Mexico per capita GDP $10000

    The Italian figure is depressed by their early retirement age and very long lifespan as well. It is an even bigger difference if you look at per worker GDP.

    The first generation of US born Italians were just about at the white average economically, while the data for 3rd and 4th gen Mexicans is still far below average.
    , @syonredux
    Gregory Clark on Hispanic immigration:

    Given current patterns of immigration to the United States, Washington faces an enormous policy challenge. Two in five of all immigrants to the United States are from Mexico and Central America. Latinos now constitute 22 percent of all children in the United States; by 2050, they are expected to be 39 percent. But the social status of Latinos, even those born in the United States, is persistently low.

    This perhaps shouldn’t be a surprise, given that migrants from Mexico and Central America tend to be negatively selected from their home populations: they are often the people who found themselves in such desperate economic circumstances at home that they preferred to live as illegal immigrants in the United States. (Latinos constitute nearly half of the foreign born in the United States, but four in five of illegal migrants.) The effects have been dire: there can be no doubt that immigration is widening social inequality in the United States.

    Consider the table below, which shows educational attainment of 25–34-year-olds in the United States in 2009. Descendants of Latino immigrants are dropping out of high school at rates far in excess of the domestic population and the descendants of other immigrant groups; similarly, the Latino population is much less likely than those other groups to complete higher education. Educational attainment in all societies is a strong predictor of future social status, and the prediction here for the Latino population is not good.

    This pattern shows up even more starkly in California, where recent immigrants are more numerous than in the United States as a whole, and more diverse in terms of social status. Yet Californian policymakers have not reckoned with the consequences. There is an optimistic assumption that tinkering with social policies — such as making it easier, financially and academically, for Latinos to enter public colleges — will allow Latino education and income levels to quickly catch up with the rest of the state. But as was noted above for countries such as Sweden there is no evidence that social mobility rates can be raised by more intensive public support of disadvantaged families. Despite such support in Sweden, the children of immigrants currently perform significantly less well in educational achievement tests than the domestic population. The United States is likely to soon have the unprecedented situation of fostering a semi-permanent underclass.

     

    gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion >http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141932/gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion
    , @Discard
    I think that most of the Whites that are taking up with Mexicans are downwardly mobile. Make that more-downwardly-mobile-than-average if you will. They will assimilate to Mexican ways, and not carry their weight economically or as citizens.
  10. I checked the comments from the article. First comment, ha, ha.

    >> I am still stuck on 3 wives and 21 children from last week. There is no place that can keep up with that kind of population growth. Climate change is more challenging in every place with unfettered population growth.

    We must start there<<

    Yes, we must not let people notice things.

  11. Comments here and at the NYT are proof that we need much more immigration if for no other reason to curb the voice if white privileged jack holes. You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don’t you?

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.

    It is time for us to face this uncomfortable fact. Religious zealots in the United States are working to undermine common sense here and abroad.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don’t you?"

    No, because it didn't. Colonialism is the only reason that Africa has any modern amenities at all. The thing that wrecked Africa was Africans.
    , @Anonymous
    More like 'golden showers' than 'golden flowers'.
    , @IBC

    proof that we need much more immigration
     
    If Thomas Friedman's right and Climate Change is at the root of Africa's problems, increased immigration to Europe will just end up screwing the folks back home that much harder; because even if everyone takes his advice and immediately plasters their roof with solar panels, developed world per capita green house gas emissions, will likely continue to exceed those in the rest of the world for many years to come.

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.
     
    I can agree with you on that point, but do you really believe that that man with three wives and 17 children was inspired by people like the Duggars?
    , @Threecranes
    You should read the book The Negroes in Negroland http://archive.org/stream/negroesinnegrola00helpiala/negroesinnegrola00helpiala_djvu.txt, also available through Amazon.

    It is a compilation of the notes taken by early explorers of Africa as well as missionaries and trading post representatives.

    Your eyes will be opened. What you imagine as the native, pre-European-contact African sounds like the noble savage fallacy.

    I'm not belittling you, just trying to help.

    SubSaharan negros were unimaginably barbaric savages long before any white penetrated deepest, darkest Africa. In fact, one of the problems early explorers had was in trying to get a good meal without taking part in cannabalism.

    After becoming familiar with the practices of stone-age Africa, it is hard not to come away with the notion that a good deal of the problems African-Americans face today can be attributed to the fantastic but entirely plausible notion they were being bred and raised as meat for their King's table. Imagine what kind of phenotype you'd end up with if the intention of your breeder was to maximize your tastiness at the expense of other qualities. This, I believe, accounts for the dysfunctional characteristics of American Africans today. They were being bred as meat but when the King could get a good price for them from Yankee traders, he was perfectly willing to sell them; after all, there were plenty more where they came from--Africans even then excelling at reproducing themselves.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    Golden Flowers, Seventy year old guy here. I remember the travelogues that they use to show between the double features at our local movie theater. Yep, that African culture was a thing to behold. Sure wished we lived in a mud/grass house and smeared our heads with cow dung. The only civilization on the whole continent was the work of the Europeans. The last major building project in Africa, not build by Europeans was the Pyramids and the rest of ancient Egypt. Previous to the missionaries the solution to overpopulation was to sell them or eat them.
  12. One accurate bit in that piece:

    “Libya was like a cork on Africa, and when the U.S. and NATO toppled the Libyan dictator — but did not put troops on the ground to help secure a new order — they essentially uncorked Africa”

    Not that I think troops on the ground would have made any difference. The Royal Navy picks up illegal infiltrators only a few miles off Libya then takes them all the way to Italy.

    UK Foreign Office is warning holidaymakers of possible attacks in European resorts this summer. Look at the map.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/how-safe-your-holiday-european-7792430

    For some reason Poland, Slovenia and the Baltic States are immune.

  13. @Lot
    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan's support for immigration restrictions.

    Mexicans do not have an average IQ of “around 100”, unless you meant well below 100.
    And don’t be misled by nice fresh off-the-boat/plane immigrants, because they have to play nice at first to get a job and rent a house.
    First generation immigrant Arabs in Europe also seemed nice enough and see how it all turned out. Once there are large numbers of aliens, they don’t have to pretend they’re nice anymore. They segregate themselves and refuse to integrate and even obey the laws of the land.

    • Replies: @Lot
    You are right, I meant to say Mexicans are around 94 or 95, meaning a large number will be above 100.
  14. @Anonymous
    "The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. "

    Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites, I expect there to be in the next generation an olive complexioned race that's not quite fully white but also not quite a minority group. They will be net contributors like Italians (or if you don't view Italians in the US as net contributors they won't be any more detrimental than the US born generations of those immigrants).

    “Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites,”

    That is 100 percent false. Where did you come up with that number?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Americans#Intermarriage

    It’s 26 percent for U.S born Mexican women and 28 percent for U.S born Mexican men.

    “They will be net contributors like Italians”

    Mexicans have a significantly higher poverty rate than Italians in The U.S. Most Mexican K-12 public school students qualify for free lunch programs.

  15. @David M.
    Of course global warming may actually be reversing desertification in the Sahara:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090731-green-sahara.html

    my gut feeling is that, in addition to the macro trend, the agricultural methods employed in northern Africa are mostly responsible for increased desertification. African farms don’t have fences. They just keep roaming around untill nothing is left, then move on.

  16. “Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100.”

    If the average Mexican in The U.S has an IQ of 100, why are they disproportionately overrepresented in minimum wage jobs?

    Mexicans sure punch below their weight for a supposed triple digit IQ ethnic group.

  17. @Lot
    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan's support for immigration restrictions.

    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day’s train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they’re really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    • Replies: @Altai

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day’s train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?
     
    All those people already have full right to live, work and walk into Germany anytime and shed tonnes of them are already there. And the EU seems game to add tens of millions of Ukrainians to it's already strained labour market.

    I think business promoting this has an NRA feel, no retreat no allowance of restriction on any kind of immigration. Even with all these unemployed 'New Germans', the Germans have, of course, convinced themselves that they only need hard work to turn them into Germans. But there aren't any jobs they are competitive for! Let's deregulate the entire labour market to get them into work, any work, it's an emergency! Will it push down wages for more skilled work, not at first but the increased pressure on the German working class to get skilled credentials will begin to push down wages everywhere.

    Meanwhile German executives laugh as they retire to their super-wealthy all German enclaves.
    , @BenKenobi
    Many months ago this same video was posted here. It inspired my illustrious posting career here at unz.

    It's still making me laugh. We all need a chuckle now and then while we discuss the twilight of our civilization.
    , @The Alarmist

    "Afghans are the anti-Germans."
     
    As a German would say, "Klasse!" That is, if he or she felt free to express that thought.
    , @Jonathan Silber
    Afghans are the anti-Germans.

    Bring a few million of clumsy goat-herding pedophiles on board and you've put an end to all that talk about a Master Race.

    , @Anonymous
    Well, every self-respecting Pashtun claims to be the 'original Aryans' - and thus the brother of the Germans.

    You'd be surprised at the amount of German envy and Nazi worship amongst them.

    It's also why they've all chosen to move in on Germany.

    , @AndrewR
    Is that some sort of Afghan Special Ed PE class?
    , @Discard
    African recruits would at least have a better sense of rhythm.
  18. @Anonymous
    "The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. "

    Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites, I expect there to be in the next generation an olive complexioned race that's not quite fully white but also not quite a minority group. They will be net contributors like Italians (or if you don't view Italians in the US as net contributors they won't be any more detrimental than the US born generations of those immigrants).

    They will be net contributors like Italians

    Michael Barone, is that you?

    Italy per capita GDP: $35000
    Mexico per capita GDP $10000

    The Italian figure is depressed by their early retirement age and very long lifespan as well. It is an even bigger difference if you look at per worker GDP.

    The first generation of US born Italians were just about at the white average economically, while the data for 3rd and 4th gen Mexicans is still far below average.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Italians who migrated to the US are from the south. Places like Calabria and Sicily have a GDP that is like half of the Italian national average (and remember you have to take into account the annual transfer payments from wealthy Italy to these southerners and also the wages earned by southerners with something on the ball in northern employment markets and the remittances sent back).

    So basically places like Calabria if standing alone would do little better than Mexico.

    How do 2nd generation Italians do relative to other whites in New York and the East Coast? Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).
    , @syonredux

    Michael Barone, is that you?
     
    Barone has had to change his tune on Hispanics:

    As Clark notes, there was a lot of upward mobility among these groups — most spectacularly among Jews, but also among Italians, Poles, and other minorities who exceeded national-income averages by the 1950s. It was matched during these years also by the cumulative but slower upward mobility of Irish Catholics who arrived between the 1840s and 1890s. The Ellis Islanders, blocked from upward mobility at home, brought to America advantages of genetic endowment and cultural tradition — nature and nurture — which enabled them to move upward unusually rapidly. Asian immigrants seem to be moving upward similarly today. But not the group the Census Bureau calls Hispanics. In my 2001 book, The New Americans, I predicted that Hispanics would move upward, much as Italians had a century before. That was overoptimistic. There has been little or no upward mobility among third- and fourth-generation Hispanics.

    Why the difference? One reason is that current Hispanic immigrants seem to be characterized by economic need rather than second-class status. Immigrants from Mexico and illegal immigrants (mostly from Mexico) are particularly downscale.
     
  19. @BB753
    Mexicans do not have an average IQ of "around 100", unless you meant well below 100.
    And don't be misled by nice fresh off-the-boat/plane immigrants, because they have to play nice at first to get a job and rent a house.
    First generation immigrant Arabs in Europe also seemed nice enough and see how it all turned out. Once there are large numbers of aliens, they don't have to pretend they're nice anymore. They segregate themselves and refuse to integrate and even obey the laws of the land.

    You are right, I meant to say Mexicans are around 94 or 95, meaning a large number will be above 100.

    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    The Mexicans with IQ's >100 run Mexico and are very happy there.

    The people flooding the USA are the most marginalized people in Mexico and Central America, who are predominantly of Mayan ancestry and have IQ's about the same as other people whose ancestors were in the Americas for the last 10,000 years.

    Unless I'm misinformed, we're talking barely above Africans as a whole.
    , @Jonathan Silber
    Mexicans are around 94 or 95 [I.Q.], meaning a large number will be above 100.

    Mexicans of an I.Q. above 100 have opportunities aplenty at home in Mexico; few of them have reason to emigrate to the U.S.--or anywhere else.

    The Mexicans inundating the U.S.--tens of millions of them in violation of our laws--are of lower intelligence.

    I like and admire some Mexicans but want no more of them here.

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    Lower.

    Around 88. You'll get some lawyers, doctors, journeyman academics and engineers out of the upper quintile and that's about it.
  20. If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia…Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent.

    There may be something in that.

    Until a couple of years ago, the long time head of product research and engineering at Daimler/Mercedes Benz in Stuttgart was a Southern Indian Hindu, Bharat Balasubramanian, who migrated to Germany decades ago.

    That’s a job that takes a backseat to no one in the world of mechanical engineers.

  21. @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day’s train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    All those people already have full right to live, work and walk into Germany anytime and shed tonnes of them are already there. And the EU seems game to add tens of millions of Ukrainians to it’s already strained labour market.

    I think business promoting this has an NRA feel, no retreat no allowance of restriction on any kind of immigration. Even with all these unemployed ‘New Germans’, the Germans have, of course, convinced themselves that they only need hard work to turn them into Germans. But there aren’t any jobs they are competitive for! Let’s deregulate the entire labour market to get them into work, any work, it’s an emergency! Will it push down wages for more skilled work, not at first but the increased pressure on the German working class to get skilled credentials will begin to push down wages everywhere.

    Meanwhile German executives laugh as they retire to their super-wealthy all German enclaves.

    • Agree: Stephen R. Diamond
    • Replies: @Romanian
    Just a quibble - the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian, which come out at roughly 11 million people. Add to the them 19 million Romanians (many have gone already, but still) and that's basically it. Not really enough to feed the maw of cheap labor, right? Also, these populations are waaay below replacement rate fertility and past their demographic dividend. Therefore, a finite resource. And I'm not too keen on inhabiting an empty country, especially if some moron in power decides at the last minute to make up the difference by importing third worlders.
    , @tris
    I can tell you that the average German has exactly zero influence on all this. The whole EU, and current immigration fiasco, was designed and implemented by an unelected trans-atlantic elite. This elite has also steadily disenfranchised the electorate. The right-wing parties do not have a chance to ever make it, since the elite just keep rigging the system to keep them out.
    , @Ozymandias
    "...the Germans have, of course, convinced themselves that they only need hard work to turn them into Germans."

    Arbeit macht frei. In spite of its current negative associations with der spritzers, it is a core German belief. Work defines who you are. To be unemployed is shameful.
  22. @Peter Johnson
    I wondered why that NY Times article had so few comments! Thought it might be an unusually busy day for the comment review staff, doing their taxes and returning phone calls. Did they really deliberately pull the plug early on the comments thread, because so many did not fit the Narrative? Very interesting if true.

    The UK Daily Telegraph has reformatted its website and appears to have dispensed with comments.

    I confess that I often skim the article – because you can very often tell without a detailed parsing – exactly what the narrative in it is. The comments often prove far more interesting than the article.

    • Replies: @tris
    that goes for much of the MSM. Watching television usually works when you turn off the sound. then you can figure out the running meme by just watching the body language. the MSM are really running their propaganda on a small bag of tricks. once you figure them out, the whole thing becomes a circus and really boring.
    , @BenKenobi
    Every MSM article these days is just like The Onion: you get the joke after reading the headline, the rest is just filler doubling down.
    , @anon
    Yes, I stopped reading it apart from briefly skim the head lines to see what lies the oligarchy are pushing today and move on. I'm expecting - hoping at least - that the comment less segment of the media will gradually become deserted.
  23. Maybe they can use them for crash test dummies.

  24. Africa has tremendous economic and agricultural potential. This was proven by South Africa under the Boers, and Rhodesia, both countries with only semi-arable to deserty land. Run by the right sort of people, Africa could easily feed billions of people at a reasonable living standard. I think the problem is more the agricultural and economic methods being employed. Another problem is that traditional African agriculture is non-sustainable.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Lampoon, to touch on something Steve said about farming in the USA, maybe we could export some Amish to Africa and they could transform the continent in to a prosperous agricultural enterprise. Western New York, nearby Pennsylvania and Ohio all have large pockets of Amish, the hardest working people I have ever met and enterprising too. Wish there was more of them.
  25. @Altai

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day’s train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?
     
    All those people already have full right to live, work and walk into Germany anytime and shed tonnes of them are already there. And the EU seems game to add tens of millions of Ukrainians to it's already strained labour market.

    I think business promoting this has an NRA feel, no retreat no allowance of restriction on any kind of immigration. Even with all these unemployed 'New Germans', the Germans have, of course, convinced themselves that they only need hard work to turn them into Germans. But there aren't any jobs they are competitive for! Let's deregulate the entire labour market to get them into work, any work, it's an emergency! Will it push down wages for more skilled work, not at first but the increased pressure on the German working class to get skilled credentials will begin to push down wages everywhere.

    Meanwhile German executives laugh as they retire to their super-wealthy all German enclaves.

    Just a quibble – the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian, which come out at roughly 11 million people. Add to the them 19 million Romanians (many have gone already, but still) and that’s basically it. Not really enough to feed the maw of cheap labor, right? Also, these populations are waaay below replacement rate fertility and past their demographic dividend. Therefore, a finite resource. And I’m not too keen on inhabiting an empty country, especially if some moron in power decides at the last minute to make up the difference by importing third worlders.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    "... the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian ..."
     
    Just a minor quibble from someone who lives in the EU ... Those might be the only Slavic countries admitted to EU membership, but there is no shortage of Slavic diaspora from all Slavic nations living all across the EU.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Holy fuck! You mean the Poles, Czechs and Slovaks (current European Council Presidency holders) have been taking the piss, and are actually some sort of non-lazy Brit all along? Which is why they're all here in England already. Sort of makes sense now. I shall be having words with them, the cheeky sods ...
    , @Mark Eugenikos

    ...the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian...
     
    When did Czech, Slovaks and Poles stop being Slavs? Why wasn't I informed of that?
  26. @NickG
    The UK Daily Telegraph has reformatted its website and appears to have dispensed with comments.

    I confess that I often skim the article - because you can very often tell without a detailed parsing - exactly what the narrative in it is. The comments often prove far more interesting than the article.

    that goes for much of the MSM. Watching television usually works when you turn off the sound. then you can figure out the running meme by just watching the body language. the MSM are really running their propaganda on a small bag of tricks. once you figure them out, the whole thing becomes a circus and really boring.

    • Replies: @anon

    then you can figure out the running meme by just watching the body language.
     
    This is very true. If you do that you can tell when they know they're lying.
  27. @Altai

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day’s train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?
     
    All those people already have full right to live, work and walk into Germany anytime and shed tonnes of them are already there. And the EU seems game to add tens of millions of Ukrainians to it's already strained labour market.

    I think business promoting this has an NRA feel, no retreat no allowance of restriction on any kind of immigration. Even with all these unemployed 'New Germans', the Germans have, of course, convinced themselves that they only need hard work to turn them into Germans. But there aren't any jobs they are competitive for! Let's deregulate the entire labour market to get them into work, any work, it's an emergency! Will it push down wages for more skilled work, not at first but the increased pressure on the German working class to get skilled credentials will begin to push down wages everywhere.

    Meanwhile German executives laugh as they retire to their super-wealthy all German enclaves.

    I can tell you that the average German has exactly zero influence on all this. The whole EU, and current immigration fiasco, was designed and implemented by an unelected trans-atlantic elite. This elite has also steadily disenfranchised the electorate. The right-wing parties do not have a chance to ever make it, since the elite just keep rigging the system to keep them out.

    • Replies: @Altai
    I should have said 'German politicians and commentariat'. I often wonder how much they start to believe their own post hoc assurances.
  28. @Lot
    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan's support for immigration restrictions.

    “But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration?”
    A large part of the female population sees large benefits from the immigration of Subsaharan Africans, Arabs not so much.
    In the end it is more about the symbolic effect. Most single individuals of course do not benefit form immigration. But as individuals they would loose a lot by being racist. It is also like a prisoners dilemma

    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    A large part of the female population sees large benefits from the immigration of Subsaharan Africans

    Is that you Whisky?

    But as individuals they would loose a lot by being racist.

    And how would they lose by being "racist"?
  29. The Illinois county I live in at one time had thousands of farmers but, according to the local farm bureau, there may only be 15 full time farmers left by 2020. They employ many workers to work the farms and there are farmers who farm part time, but there aren’t that many ag jobs out in the field any more. The only areas that agriculture employs a lot of people is where the crops are still labor intensive to grow and pick, like vegetables and fruits where nobody has figured out how to get machines to do the work, or dairy farming. Both of these employ mainly immigrants from Mexico today. So, teaching better farming techniques won’t only not employ the surplus population, but it may make the situation worse. Of course, Europe may want to start importing more vegetables from Africa and the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Rapid improvements in agriculture without parallel developments in fields that can absorb the excess labor are what led to the worsening of the favela phenomenon in Brazil.
  30. This is truly alarming. If you can no longer trust the NYT’s commentariat to regurgitate “blame whitey” bromides, what *can* you trust?

  31. >overpopulation is the real problem

    Solution

    1) Feminism
    2) Contraception
    3) Free online porn

    • Replies: @mtn cur
    All three apparently true, especially if you add a few neutron nukes to the formula.
  32. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    They will be net contributors like Italians
     
    Michael Barone, is that you?

    Italy per capita GDP: $35000
    Mexico per capita GDP $10000

    The Italian figure is depressed by their early retirement age and very long lifespan as well. It is an even bigger difference if you look at per worker GDP.

    The first generation of US born Italians were just about at the white average economically, while the data for 3rd and 4th gen Mexicans is still far below average.

    Italians who migrated to the US are from the south. Places like Calabria and Sicily have a GDP that is like half of the Italian national average (and remember you have to take into account the annual transfer payments from wealthy Italy to these southerners and also the wages earned by southerners with something on the ball in northern employment markets and the remittances sent back).

    So basically places like Calabria if standing alone would do little better than Mexico.

    How do 2nd generation Italians do relative to other whites in New York and the East Coast? Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Anonymous, I am a second generation Italian-American and I am doing well thank you. My children , all college graduates are doing well, thank you and so are my grandchildren. No greatgrandkids so I can't forecast the future. I don't know what you are talking about because the majority of Italian immigrants arrived on these shores in the late 1800s early 1900s. I know lots of second generation Italian Americans who are successful professionals and business owners, and that extends across NY and the east coast. And one more thing, I'd like to slap the term Guido out of your mouth. Otherwise I'm good.
    , @Jefferson
    "So basically places like Calabria if standing alone would do little better than Mexico."

    Even Southern Italy has a signficantly higher human development index than Mexico.

    "How do 2nd generation Italians do relative to other whites in New York and the East Coast?"

    Italians in The U.S are doing quite well. The 2 largest cities in the country New York City and Los Angeles, both have mayors with Italian last names. Of the 17 Republican candidates who ran for POTUS this year, 4 of them have Italian ancestry. In a lot of the affluent suburbs in Long Island, New Jersey, and Connecticut, Italians are the largest White group percentage wise. On average Italians in The U.S earn over $25,000 thousand dollars a year more than Mexicans.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

    "Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos)."

    Mexicans will never absorb into the White majority because their demographic numbers are just way too big, especially in The Southwest.

    Mexicans in The U.S will always remain very visible Minorities both phenotype wise and culturally, just like Blacks and Asians.

    It is extremely hard to not notice Mexicans both culturally and phenotype wise in cities like Los Angeles and Phoenix for example. U.S cities with huge Mexican populations do not feel and look like Whitopias.

    , @Jefferson
    "Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).”

    Mexicans are not even among the top 10 Whitest Latin American ethnic groups, let alone as White as Southern Italians.

    Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Colombia, Costa Rica, Venezuela, and Chile all have a higher percentage of Whites than Mexico.

    America is extremely unlucky in sharing a border with one of the least White Latin American countries.
  33. @tris

    HiI’m a religious person but there’s no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet.
     
    overpopulation per se is not the issue, it's who is doing the overpopulating. Places like China and Holland have high population densities, but are able to modernize and practise sustainable farminig, so that those countries do not need to shed excess population onto someone else

    Yes, it’s possible to achieve high population densities in some locations. Why? Holland has very little open space, and very little biodiversity. The continental US is about the size of China: can you imagine what it would look like if we were sustaining a population of 1.2 B or twice that? It would be hell on earth. The point of life is not to live as long as possible and surely the destiny of the human race is not to be as populous as possible.

  34. @Tiny Duck
    Comments here and at the NYT are proof that we need much more immigration if for no other reason to curb the voice if white privileged jack holes. You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don't you?

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.

    It is time for us to face this uncomfortable fact. Religious zealots in the United States are working to undermine common sense here and abroad.

    “You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don’t you?”

    No, because it didn’t. Colonialism is the only reason that Africa has any modern amenities at all. The thing that wrecked Africa was Africans.

  35. @Lot
    You are right, I meant to say Mexicans are around 94 or 95, meaning a large number will be above 100.

    The Mexicans with IQ’s >100 run Mexico and are very happy there.

    The people flooding the USA are the most marginalized people in Mexico and Central America, who are predominantly of Mayan ancestry and have IQ’s about the same as other people whose ancestors were in the Americas for the last 10,000 years.

    Unless I’m misinformed, we’re talking barely above Africans as a whole.

    • Replies: @Lot

    The Mexicans with IQ’s >100 run Mexico and are very happy there.
     
    Sure, middle class mexicans with high-ish IQs are not coming here, but there is still discrimination and lack of opportunities. If you are a 105IQ small town mestizo and see your 95-IQ cousins go to the USA and make 10 times what you do, you will be tempted to go yourself.

    The people flooding the USA are the most marginalized people in Mexico and Central America, who are predominantly of Mayan ancestry and have IQ’s about the same as other people whose ancestors were in the Americas for the last 10,000 years.
     

    Mexico is roughly 10% white, 60% Mestizo, 30% indio by US standards. Mexican immigrants to the USA, however, are more like 90% mestizo. Pure-blooded Mexican Indians tend to be 5-2 for men and 4-10 for women, very dark skinned, can't grow facial hair beyond a little wisp, and may not speak spanish. They lack the ambition and imagination to travel thousands of miles away to work in a foreign land. Which makes sense, mestizos are descended in part by the ballsy fraction of Spanish that crossed an ocean in a wooden ship hundreds of years ago, indios are not.

    Sure such people do end up here in small numbers, but the vast majority of Mexicans I see average around 5-6 for men and have facial hair. You just see a lot more diversity in Mexico itself than in Mexican-American neighborhoods.

  36. Isn’t there a body of research now showing that there’s either a mean IQ or a threshold percentage of higher IQ people necessary for any sort of representative political system to function?

    In essence, importing Africa to Europe and Mayans to the USA isn’t just about jobs, it is about fundamentally transforming previously civilized places of Industry, Wealth, Low Violence and Pluralistic government into exactly the same places the migrants presume to escape.

    Am I alone in seeing a relationship between population dynamics & movement (which evolved during the last 50 years) and the monetary-debasement, credit-bubble-cum-wealth-inflation-explosion (also evolving during the last 50 years)?

    It all looks like the same Extraordinary Popular Delusion to me.

    • Replies: @anon

    Am I alone in seeing a relationship between population dynamics & movement (which evolved during the last 50 years) and the monetary-debasement, credit-bubble-cum-wealth-inflation-explosion (also evolving during the last 50 years)?

    It all looks like the same Extraordinary Popular Delusion to me.
     
    Going by cui bono you'd need a group of people who benefitted from
    - debasing the currency
    - debt-based consumption
    - importing cheap labor
    and who had enough money to start with to buy the politicians and media required to create the "Extraordinary Popular Delusion" that any of this was a good idea.

    (my guess is the initials are b.m)
  37. blacks flocking to white cities is old hat in africa. Thats how the major cities in south africa turned majority black and whites were eventually disenfranchised. Now that post-colonial africa has been pillaged by its ‘liberators’, they start moving on to europe

  38. @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ

    Many months ago this same video was posted here. It inspired my illustrious posting career here at unz.

    It’s still making me laugh. We all need a chuckle now and then while we discuss the twilight of our civilization.

  39. @NickG
    The UK Daily Telegraph has reformatted its website and appears to have dispensed with comments.

    I confess that I often skim the article - because you can very often tell without a detailed parsing - exactly what the narrative in it is. The comments often prove far more interesting than the article.

    Every MSM article these days is just like The Onion: you get the joke after reading the headline, the rest is just filler doubling down.

  40. @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ

    “Afghans are the anti-Germans.”

    As a German would say, “Klasse!” That is, if he or she felt free to express that thought.

  41. @Romanian
    Just a quibble - the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian, which come out at roughly 11 million people. Add to the them 19 million Romanians (many have gone already, but still) and that's basically it. Not really enough to feed the maw of cheap labor, right? Also, these populations are waaay below replacement rate fertility and past their demographic dividend. Therefore, a finite resource. And I'm not too keen on inhabiting an empty country, especially if some moron in power decides at the last minute to make up the difference by importing third worlders.

    “… the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian …”

    Just a minor quibble from someone who lives in the EU … Those might be the only Slavic countries admitted to EU membership, but there is no shortage of Slavic diaspora from all Slavic nations living all across the EU.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Well, yeah sure, but I got the impression that he was talking about people who already have the EU freedom of movement and could conceivably be very easy to move. Also, they've presumably adopted the Bologna system which makes it easier (still difficult) to compare educational attainment. That's why I mentioned it. Just look at the number of Ukrainians in Poland. Or Russians in Germany.

    By any reasonable standard, most of Western Europe is moving towards a hodge-podge of folks from every culture you're aware of and not aware of :P

    , @Romanian
    I mean, the figures I gave were country populations, not diaspora populations, so I was obviously referring to countries. In the end, it might be a bit bigoted of me, but I'd think that the whole point of that huge European labor market is to allow for demand to be filled from inside the market, with the outside being a sort of last resort.
  42. @Lot
    You are right, I meant to say Mexicans are around 94 or 95, meaning a large number will be above 100.

    Mexicans are around 94 or 95 [I.Q.], meaning a large number will be above 100.

    Mexicans of an I.Q. above 100 have opportunities aplenty at home in Mexico; few of them have reason to emigrate to the U.S.–or anywhere else.

    The Mexicans inundating the U.S.–tens of millions of them in violation of our laws–are of lower intelligence.

    I like and admire some Mexicans but want no more of them here.

  43. > The thing to keep in mind about these 39 countries with at least 4 babies per woman is that it takes over a generation.

    .. to what? You’re missing a piece of that sentence, Steve.

  44. @Lot
    You are right, I meant to say Mexicans are around 94 or 95, meaning a large number will be above 100.

    Lower.

    Around 88. You’ll get some lawyers, doctors, journeyman academics and engineers out of the upper quintile and that’s about it.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    Nothing that Affirmative Action can't fix.. Fix the numbers, that is.
    , @Lot
    88 IQ for Mexicans? No way. That is only 3 points higher than the African American average. Have a look at grade school test scores by race and you'll see that's wrong.
  45. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Lower.

    Around 88. You'll get some lawyers, doctors, journeyman academics and engineers out of the upper quintile and that's about it.

    Nothing that Affirmative Action can’t fix.. Fix the numbers, that is.

  46. @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ

    Afghans are the anti-Germans.

    Bring a few million of clumsy goat-herding pedophiles on board and you’ve put an end to all that talk about a Master Race.

  47. @Lot

    They will be net contributors like Italians
     
    Michael Barone, is that you?

    Italy per capita GDP: $35000
    Mexico per capita GDP $10000

    The Italian figure is depressed by their early retirement age and very long lifespan as well. It is an even bigger difference if you look at per worker GDP.

    The first generation of US born Italians were just about at the white average economically, while the data for 3rd and 4th gen Mexicans is still far below average.

    Michael Barone, is that you?

    Barone has had to change his tune on Hispanics:

    As Clark notes, there was a lot of upward mobility among these groups — most spectacularly among Jews, but also among Italians, Poles, and other minorities who exceeded national-income averages by the 1950s. It was matched during these years also by the cumulative but slower upward mobility of Irish Catholics who arrived between the 1840s and 1890s. The Ellis Islanders, blocked from upward mobility at home, brought to America advantages of genetic endowment and cultural tradition — nature and nurture — which enabled them to move upward unusually rapidly. Asian immigrants seem to be moving upward similarly today. But not the group the Census Bureau calls Hispanics. In my 2001 book, The New Americans, I predicted that Hispanics would move upward, much as Italians had a century before. That was overoptimistic. There has been little or no upward mobility among third- and fourth-generation Hispanics.

    Why the difference? One reason is that current Hispanic immigrants seem to be characterized by economic need rather than second-class status. Immigrants from Mexico and illegal immigrants (mostly from Mexico) are particularly downscale.

  48. I too usually only scan MSM opinion hitpieces, err articles and go straight to the comments. Alas, many sites do not have comments anymore. I rarely go to those sites now.

  49. @Anonymous
    "The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. "

    Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites, I expect there to be in the next generation an olive complexioned race that's not quite fully white but also not quite a minority group. They will be net contributors like Italians (or if you don't view Italians in the US as net contributors they won't be any more detrimental than the US born generations of those immigrants).

    Gregory Clark on Hispanic immigration:

    Given current patterns of immigration to the United States, Washington faces an enormous policy challenge. Two in five of all immigrants to the United States are from Mexico and Central America. Latinos now constitute 22 percent of all children in the United States; by 2050, they are expected to be 39 percent. But the social status of Latinos, even those born in the United States, is persistently low.

    This perhaps shouldn’t be a surprise, given that migrants from Mexico and Central America tend to be negatively selected from their home populations: they are often the people who found themselves in such desperate economic circumstances at home that they preferred to live as illegal immigrants in the United States. (Latinos constitute nearly half of the foreign born in the United States, but four in five of illegal migrants.) The effects have been dire: there can be no doubt that immigration is widening social inequality in the United States.

    Consider the table below, which shows educational attainment of 25–34-year-olds in the United States in 2009. Descendants of Latino immigrants are dropping out of high school at rates far in excess of the domestic population and the descendants of other immigrant groups; similarly, the Latino population is much less likely than those other groups to complete higher education. Educational attainment in all societies is a strong predictor of future social status, and the prediction here for the Latino population is not good.

    This pattern shows up even more starkly in California, where recent immigrants are more numerous than in the United States as a whole, and more diverse in terms of social status. Yet Californian policymakers have not reckoned with the consequences. There is an optimistic assumption that tinkering with social policies — such as making it easier, financially and academically, for Latinos to enter public colleges — will allow Latino education and income levels to quickly catch up with the rest of the state. But as was noted above for countries such as Sweden there is no evidence that social mobility rates can be raised by more intensive public support of disadvantaged families. Despite such support in Sweden, the children of immigrants currently perform significantly less well in educational achievement tests than the domestic population. The United States is likely to soon have the unprecedented situation of fostering a semi-permanent underclass.

    gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion >http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141932/gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Yes, unskilled Latin immigration is creating a peon underclass, and as time passes we will see what that engenders: rigid class stratification, paternalistic and corrupt central government, the breakdown of authority into competing fiefdoms, and destruction of habitat. Sort of like what we have now, but even worse.

    Ultimately what will happen is that when the Mexican population reaches a tipping point, there will be a union of the US and Mexico, first economic, and then only gradually political, and the corrupt political culture that has governed Latin America for centuries will gradually take over here; Locke and Jefferson will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

    However, the main reason this is going to happen is that most people want their luxuries, and as long as we create low wage underclasses either South of the Border or overseas, there will be no reason to complain. It's the same thing that brings down all empires.

    I don't think the future will be particularly violent. But it will be Latino (to be distinguished from Spanish proper). There's no escape.
    , @Anonymous
    "Latinos now constitute 22 percent of all children in the United States; by 2050, they are expected to be 39 percent."

    This shows a stable concept of race that will not survive into the American mid-century. With US born Mexicans marrying at almost 30% with non-Hispanic whites and then the third generation having an even higher marriage rate with whites, the children of those marriages aren't going to think of themselves as a Latino race in 2050. They will have become absorbed into the white majority although still considered a poor ethnic white group. But distinctions of racial distance will be gone.
    , @Discard
    All educational and crime statistics for Hispanics are lies, intended to conceal their failings.
  50. @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ

    Well, every self-respecting Pashtun claims to be the ‘original Aryans’ – and thus the brother of the Germans.

    You’d be surprised at the amount of German envy and Nazi worship amongst them.

    It’s also why they’ve all chosen to move in on Germany.

    • Replies: @Lot

    Well, every self-respecting Pashtun claims to be the ‘original Aryans’ – and thus the brother of the Germans.

    You’d be surprised at the amount of German envy and Nazi worship amongst them.
     
    The Pashtun were once an impressive race and conquered their neighbors, going all the way south into Northern India. Now they have a startlingly low IQ, probably the lowest IQ of any population with a large fraction of light colored eyes. I'd say this is a result of the smarter Pashtuns leaving the mountains and high levels of incest and high paternal age for those left behind.
  51. @syonredux
    Gregory Clark on Hispanic immigration:

    Given current patterns of immigration to the United States, Washington faces an enormous policy challenge. Two in five of all immigrants to the United States are from Mexico and Central America. Latinos now constitute 22 percent of all children in the United States; by 2050, they are expected to be 39 percent. But the social status of Latinos, even those born in the United States, is persistently low.

    This perhaps shouldn’t be a surprise, given that migrants from Mexico and Central America tend to be negatively selected from their home populations: they are often the people who found themselves in such desperate economic circumstances at home that they preferred to live as illegal immigrants in the United States. (Latinos constitute nearly half of the foreign born in the United States, but four in five of illegal migrants.) The effects have been dire: there can be no doubt that immigration is widening social inequality in the United States.

    Consider the table below, which shows educational attainment of 25–34-year-olds in the United States in 2009. Descendants of Latino immigrants are dropping out of high school at rates far in excess of the domestic population and the descendants of other immigrant groups; similarly, the Latino population is much less likely than those other groups to complete higher education. Educational attainment in all societies is a strong predictor of future social status, and the prediction here for the Latino population is not good.

    This pattern shows up even more starkly in California, where recent immigrants are more numerous than in the United States as a whole, and more diverse in terms of social status. Yet Californian policymakers have not reckoned with the consequences. There is an optimistic assumption that tinkering with social policies — such as making it easier, financially and academically, for Latinos to enter public colleges — will allow Latino education and income levels to quickly catch up with the rest of the state. But as was noted above for countries such as Sweden there is no evidence that social mobility rates can be raised by more intensive public support of disadvantaged families. Despite such support in Sweden, the children of immigrants currently perform significantly less well in educational achievement tests than the domestic population. The United States is likely to soon have the unprecedented situation of fostering a semi-permanent underclass.

     

    gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion >http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141932/gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion

    Yes, unskilled Latin immigration is creating a peon underclass, and as time passes we will see what that engenders: rigid class stratification, paternalistic and corrupt central government, the breakdown of authority into competing fiefdoms, and destruction of habitat. Sort of like what we have now, but even worse.

    Ultimately what will happen is that when the Mexican population reaches a tipping point, there will be a union of the US and Mexico, first economic, and then only gradually political, and the corrupt political culture that has governed Latin America for centuries will gradually take over here; Locke and Jefferson will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

    However, the main reason this is going to happen is that most people want their luxuries, and as long as we create low wage underclasses either South of the Border or overseas, there will be no reason to complain. It’s the same thing that brings down all empires.

    I don’t think the future will be particularly violent. But it will be Latino (to be distinguished from Spanish proper). There’s no escape.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    Locke and Jefferson will be consigned to the dustbin of history.
     
    Or Canada. Pretty much the same thing. Happy (actual) birthday, Your Royal Awesome Queenitude BTW.
    , @anon
    The future is already violent. The media deliberately don't report it for the same reason they deliberately don't report what is happening in South Africa

    There’s no escape.
     
    Sure there is Lord Haw Haw - it's just the longer it takes for people to realize what's happening the more violent the end game will have to be - hence the sooner people realize the better.
  52. @Tiny Duck
    Comments here and at the NYT are proof that we need much more immigration if for no other reason to curb the voice if white privileged jack holes. You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don't you?

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.

    It is time for us to face this uncomfortable fact. Religious zealots in the United States are working to undermine common sense here and abroad.

    More like ‘golden showers’ than ‘golden flowers’.

  53. The real point is that compared to Africa, the continent of Europe is massively, massively overpopulated – and enormously ecologically stressed.

    Isn’t the idea of immigration from sparsely populated regions to over-populated regions simply bizarre and perverse?

    • Replies: @Romanian
    I agree with you, but, in the end, isn't that what the migration from rural areas to urban areas is all about?
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Anonymous, Yet Europe manages to feed itself and clothe itself and shelter itself and have enough left over to donate to the third world. The major cities of America just a few decades ago could be labeled overpopulated but they did quite well. I guess it is more about who is populating those cities than how many people there are.
  54. @Lot
    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan's support for immigration restrictions.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100

    Where did you get this “fact” from?

  55. @Erik Sieven
    "But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration?"
    A large part of the female population sees large benefits from the immigration of Subsaharan Africans, Arabs not so much.
    In the end it is more about the symbolic effect. Most single individuals of course do not benefit form immigration. But as individuals they would loose a lot by being racist. It is also like a prisoners dilemma

    A large part of the female population sees large benefits from the immigration of Subsaharan Africans

    Is that you Whisky?

    But as individuals they would loose a lot by being racist.

    And how would they lose by being “racist”?

  56. @Tiny Duck
    Comments here and at the NYT are proof that we need much more immigration if for no other reason to curb the voice if white privileged jack holes. You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don't you?

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.

    It is time for us to face this uncomfortable fact. Religious zealots in the United States are working to undermine common sense here and abroad.

    proof that we need much more immigration

    If Thomas Friedman’s right and Climate Change is at the root of Africa’s problems, increased immigration to Europe will just end up screwing the folks back home that much harder; because even if everyone takes his advice and immediately plasters their roof with solar panels, developed world per capita green house gas emissions, will likely continue to exceed those in the rest of the world for many years to come.

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.

    I can agree with you on that point, but do you really believe that that man with three wives and 17 children was inspired by people like the Duggars?

    • Replies: @shk12344
    Liberals always like to blame evangelicals for everything. Evangelicals are to liberals what Jews are to Nazis.
  57. @The Alarmist

    "... the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian ..."
     
    Just a minor quibble from someone who lives in the EU ... Those might be the only Slavic countries admitted to EU membership, but there is no shortage of Slavic diaspora from all Slavic nations living all across the EU.

    Well, yeah sure, but I got the impression that he was talking about people who already have the EU freedom of movement and could conceivably be very easy to move. Also, they’ve presumably adopted the Bologna system which makes it easier (still difficult) to compare educational attainment. That’s why I mentioned it. Just look at the number of Ukrainians in Poland. Or Russians in Germany.

    By any reasonable standard, most of Western Europe is moving towards a hodge-podge of folks from every culture you’re aware of and not aware of 😛

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    No quibbles then ... I was looking past the technicalities to so-called "boots on the ground."
  58. @Mike Zwick
    The Illinois county I live in at one time had thousands of farmers but, according to the local farm bureau, there may only be 15 full time farmers left by 2020. They employ many workers to work the farms and there are farmers who farm part time, but there aren't that many ag jobs out in the field any more. The only areas that agriculture employs a lot of people is where the crops are still labor intensive to grow and pick, like vegetables and fruits where nobody has figured out how to get machines to do the work, or dairy farming. Both of these employ mainly immigrants from Mexico today. So, teaching better farming techniques won’t only not employ the surplus population, but it may make the situation worse. Of course, Europe may want to start importing more vegetables from Africa and the Middle East.

    Rapid improvements in agriculture without parallel developments in fields that can absorb the excess labor are what led to the worsening of the favela phenomenon in Brazil.

  59. @The Alarmist

    "... the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian ..."
     
    Just a minor quibble from someone who lives in the EU ... Those might be the only Slavic countries admitted to EU membership, but there is no shortage of Slavic diaspora from all Slavic nations living all across the EU.

    I mean, the figures I gave were country populations, not diaspora populations, so I was obviously referring to countries. In the end, it might be a bit bigoted of me, but I’d think that the whole point of that huge European labor market is to allow for demand to be filled from inside the market, with the outside being a sort of last resort.

  60. @Anonymous
    The real point is that compared to Africa, the continent of Europe is massively, massively overpopulated - and enormously ecologically stressed.

    Isn't the idea of immigration from sparsely populated regions to over-populated regions simply bizarre and perverse?

    I agree with you, but, in the end, isn’t that what the migration from rural areas to urban areas is all about?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Some parts of the EU like the Baltic states are really not populated at all and badly need new people.
  61. @Romanian
    Just a quibble - the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian, which come out at roughly 11 million people. Add to the them 19 million Romanians (many have gone already, but still) and that's basically it. Not really enough to feed the maw of cheap labor, right? Also, these populations are waaay below replacement rate fertility and past their demographic dividend. Therefore, a finite resource. And I'm not too keen on inhabiting an empty country, especially if some moron in power decides at the last minute to make up the difference by importing third worlders.

    Holy fuck! You mean the Poles, Czechs and Slovaks (current European Council Presidency holders) have been taking the piss, and are actually some sort of non-lazy Brit all along? Which is why they’re all here in England already. Sort of makes sense now. I shall be having words with them, the cheeky sods …

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Yeah, my bad. I don't think of them as such, and the Poles are Catholic (ok, so are the Croats). Maybe I am subconsciously anti-Slavic (really, I'm not). My reflex is to think of the Slavs in the more Russian oriented sphere, like Yugoslavia. Poles seem so Western by now, let alone the Czechs. But you're right.

    It was funny that your handle is Expletive Deleted and your first words were Holy Fuck!
  62. @SPMoore8
    Yes, unskilled Latin immigration is creating a peon underclass, and as time passes we will see what that engenders: rigid class stratification, paternalistic and corrupt central government, the breakdown of authority into competing fiefdoms, and destruction of habitat. Sort of like what we have now, but even worse.

    Ultimately what will happen is that when the Mexican population reaches a tipping point, there will be a union of the US and Mexico, first economic, and then only gradually political, and the corrupt political culture that has governed Latin America for centuries will gradually take over here; Locke and Jefferson will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

    However, the main reason this is going to happen is that most people want their luxuries, and as long as we create low wage underclasses either South of the Border or overseas, there will be no reason to complain. It's the same thing that brings down all empires.

    I don't think the future will be particularly violent. But it will be Latino (to be distinguished from Spanish proper). There's no escape.

    Locke and Jefferson will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

    Or Canada. Pretty much the same thing. Happy (actual) birthday, Your Royal Awesome Queenitude BTW.

  63. @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ

    Is that some sort of Afghan Special Ed PE class?

    • Replies: @anon
    It's partly a clannish thing. The national govt orders the villages to send recruits and the villages have no loyalty to the national govt so they send their retards.
  64. @Tiny Duck
    Comments here and at the NYT are proof that we need much more immigration if for no other reason to curb the voice if white privileged jack holes. You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don't you?

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.

    It is time for us to face this uncomfortable fact. Religious zealots in the United States are working to undermine common sense here and abroad.

    You should read the book The Negroes in Negroland http://archive.org/stream/negroesinnegrola00helpiala/negroesinnegrola00helpiala_djvu.txt, also available through Amazon.

    It is a compilation of the notes taken by early explorers of Africa as well as missionaries and trading post representatives.

    Your eyes will be opened. What you imagine as the native, pre-European-contact African sounds like the noble savage fallacy.

    I’m not belittling you, just trying to help.

    SubSaharan negros were unimaginably barbaric savages long before any white penetrated deepest, darkest Africa. In fact, one of the problems early explorers had was in trying to get a good meal without taking part in cannabalism.

    After becoming familiar with the practices of stone-age Africa, it is hard not to come away with the notion that a good deal of the problems African-Americans face today can be attributed to the fantastic but entirely plausible notion they were being bred and raised as meat for their King’s table. Imagine what kind of phenotype you’d end up with if the intention of your breeder was to maximize your tastiness at the expense of other qualities. This, I believe, accounts for the dysfunctional characteristics of American Africans today. They were being bred as meat but when the King could get a good price for them from Yankee traders, he was perfectly willing to sell them; after all, there were plenty more where they came from–Africans even then excelling at reproducing themselves.

  65. .. fundamentally transforming previously civilized places of Industry, Wealth, Low Violence and Pluralistic government into exactly the same places the migrants presume to escape

    Speaking from the heart of the former “Scotch-Irish” homelands, yeah, we can do that. It’s what we do.
    It’ll be a home from home for those boys, what’s not to like (apart from the perpetual killing cold wind, darkness and wet)?
    Our contributions to the language? Blood-feud, deadly-feud, blackmail, reiving, “hame-sucken” (a judgement in Scots Law invoked to this day), “Jeddart justice”, stot-reif (a.k.a. rustling), reiver, moss-trooper, the “bluidy serk”, “unblessed hand”, fiery cross and all that. Good times. Although the statutes about us being lawfully killed if found above a mile from shore on the tax-haven of Mann, or within the cities of York, Durham and Hexham at night might cramp my style, if I’m on a cheap day-return, with just a smart tablet for defence.

  66. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux
    Gregory Clark on Hispanic immigration:

    Given current patterns of immigration to the United States, Washington faces an enormous policy challenge. Two in five of all immigrants to the United States are from Mexico and Central America. Latinos now constitute 22 percent of all children in the United States; by 2050, they are expected to be 39 percent. But the social status of Latinos, even those born in the United States, is persistently low.

    This perhaps shouldn’t be a surprise, given that migrants from Mexico and Central America tend to be negatively selected from their home populations: they are often the people who found themselves in such desperate economic circumstances at home that they preferred to live as illegal immigrants in the United States. (Latinos constitute nearly half of the foreign born in the United States, but four in five of illegal migrants.) The effects have been dire: there can be no doubt that immigration is widening social inequality in the United States.

    Consider the table below, which shows educational attainment of 25–34-year-olds in the United States in 2009. Descendants of Latino immigrants are dropping out of high school at rates far in excess of the domestic population and the descendants of other immigrant groups; similarly, the Latino population is much less likely than those other groups to complete higher education. Educational attainment in all societies is a strong predictor of future social status, and the prediction here for the Latino population is not good.

    This pattern shows up even more starkly in California, where recent immigrants are more numerous than in the United States as a whole, and more diverse in terms of social status. Yet Californian policymakers have not reckoned with the consequences. There is an optimistic assumption that tinkering with social policies — such as making it easier, financially and academically, for Latinos to enter public colleges — will allow Latino education and income levels to quickly catch up with the rest of the state. But as was noted above for countries such as Sweden there is no evidence that social mobility rates can be raised by more intensive public support of disadvantaged families. Despite such support in Sweden, the children of immigrants currently perform significantly less well in educational achievement tests than the domestic population. The United States is likely to soon have the unprecedented situation of fostering a semi-permanent underclass.

     

    gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion >http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141932/gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion

    “Latinos now constitute 22 percent of all children in the United States; by 2050, they are expected to be 39 percent.”

    This shows a stable concept of race that will not survive into the American mid-century. With US born Mexicans marrying at almost 30% with non-Hispanic whites and then the third generation having an even higher marriage rate with whites, the children of those marriages aren’t going to think of themselves as a Latino race in 2050. They will have become absorbed into the white majority although still considered a poor ethnic white group. But distinctions of racial distance will be gone.

  67. @IBC

    proof that we need much more immigration
     
    If Thomas Friedman's right and Climate Change is at the root of Africa's problems, increased immigration to Europe will just end up screwing the folks back home that much harder; because even if everyone takes his advice and immediately plasters their roof with solar panels, developed world per capita green house gas emissions, will likely continue to exceed those in the rest of the world for many years to come.

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.
     
    I can agree with you on that point, but do you really believe that that man with three wives and 17 children was inspired by people like the Duggars?

    Liberals always like to blame evangelicals for everything. Evangelicals are to liberals what Jews are to Nazis.

  68. @Romanian
    I agree with you, but, in the end, isn't that what the migration from rural areas to urban areas is all about?

    Some parts of the EU like the Baltic states are really not populated at all and badly need new people.

    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    Some parts of the EU like the Baltic states are really not populated at all and badly need new people.
     
    First, no one wants to immigrate to the sparsely populated Baltic states. Not even poor Africans.

    Secondly, even sparsely populated baltic states still have higher population density than many parts of Africa.
    , @Romanian
    Remember this gem?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/opinion/let-refugees-settle-italys-empty-spaces.html

    Let refugees settle Italy's open space. Wagon trains through Tuscany and all that.
  69. @tris
    I can tell you that the average German has exactly zero influence on all this. The whole EU, and current immigration fiasco, was designed and implemented by an unelected trans-atlantic elite. This elite has also steadily disenfranchised the electorate. The right-wing parties do not have a chance to ever make it, since the elite just keep rigging the system to keep them out.

    I should have said ‘German politicians and commentariat’. I often wonder how much they start to believe their own post hoc assurances.

  70. ,

    Mr. Sailer, what do you think of this piece by Al Jazeera on a new, ostensible migration from West Africa across the Atlantic to Central America, then potentially upwards to the U.S.?

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/600-africans-stranded-sailing-costa-rica-160421091642240.html

  71. One key development in this year’s election is growing obviousness of media’s scorn for workaday Americans. People heard ‘globalization’ and ‘immigration’ out of the mouth of a Presidential candidate and, picking themselves up after collapsing in shock, jumped on Trump’s bandwagon so fast they jostled off the tuba section. But for our deceitful, corrupt media, his popularity is due to schmacism and American tendency to air our Klan laundry whenever a chance pops up. With that appraisal in every newscast, on every fishwrap in the country, even the most studiously inattentive among us note our information industry reflexively spitting in our faces. And the dogmatic narrative has become unmistakable, as well. Yes, let’s pin desertification on your Jetta, soccer mom. …Your F-150, hayseed. How about that fat carbon footprint you call a house, peasant? Can’t be result of too many buns in the oven with our blessed Migrant Class.

    With that obviousness, and with media’s apparent obliviousness to it, there’s only one conclusion: Media has stupefied itself. It doesn’t even notice we no longer buy into its slop. Its devotion to counterintuitive yarn-spinning has rendered it retarded.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Well, this guy doesn't care.

    http://www.mrctv.org/videos/hilarious-man-sticks-it-earth-day
  72. @Tiny Duck
    Comments here and at the NYT are proof that we need much more immigration if for no other reason to curb the voice if white privileged jack holes. You guys do know that colonialism wrecked Africa don't you?

    Another counterproductive contributor to overpopulation in Africa are the American evangelical missions that spread religious beliefs demonizing contraception and planning.

    It is time for us to face this uncomfortable fact. Religious zealots in the United States are working to undermine common sense here and abroad.

    Golden Flowers, Seventy year old guy here. I remember the travelogues that they use to show between the double features at our local movie theater. Yep, that African culture was a thing to behold. Sure wished we lived in a mud/grass house and smeared our heads with cow dung. The only civilization on the whole continent was the work of the Europeans. The last major building project in Africa, not build by Europeans was the Pyramids and the rest of ancient Egypt. Previous to the missionaries the solution to overpopulation was to sell them or eat them.

  73. @the Southerner
    >overpopulation is the real problem

    Solution

    1) Feminism
    2) Contraception
    3) Free online porn

    All three apparently true, especially if you add a few neutron nukes to the formula.

  74. @tris
    Africa has tremendous economic and agricultural potential. This was proven by South Africa under the Boers, and Rhodesia, both countries with only semi-arable to deserty land. Run by the right sort of people, Africa could easily feed billions of people at a reasonable living standard. I think the problem is more the agricultural and economic methods being employed. Another problem is that traditional African agriculture is non-sustainable.

    Lampoon, to touch on something Steve said about farming in the USA, maybe we could export some Amish to Africa and they could transform the continent in to a prosperous agricultural enterprise. Western New York, nearby Pennsylvania and Ohio all have large pockets of Amish, the hardest working people I have ever met and enterprising too. Wish there was more of them.

  75. @Anonymous
    Italians who migrated to the US are from the south. Places like Calabria and Sicily have a GDP that is like half of the Italian national average (and remember you have to take into account the annual transfer payments from wealthy Italy to these southerners and also the wages earned by southerners with something on the ball in northern employment markets and the remittances sent back).

    So basically places like Calabria if standing alone would do little better than Mexico.

    How do 2nd generation Italians do relative to other whites in New York and the East Coast? Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).

    Anonymous, I am a second generation Italian-American and I am doing well thank you. My children , all college graduates are doing well, thank you and so are my grandchildren. No greatgrandkids so I can’t forecast the future. I don’t know what you are talking about because the majority of Italian immigrants arrived on these shores in the late 1800s early 1900s. I know lots of second generation Italian Americans who are successful professionals and business owners, and that extends across NY and the east coast. And one more thing, I’d like to slap the term Guido out of your mouth. Otherwise I’m good.

  76. @Anonymous
    The real point is that compared to Africa, the continent of Europe is massively, massively overpopulated - and enormously ecologically stressed.

    Isn't the idea of immigration from sparsely populated regions to over-populated regions simply bizarre and perverse?

    Anonymous, Yet Europe manages to feed itself and clothe itself and shelter itself and have enough left over to donate to the third world. The major cities of America just a few decades ago could be labeled overpopulated but they did quite well. I guess it is more about who is populating those cities than how many people there are.

  77. “Climate change” appears to serve as a wild card to avoid boring details about deforestation through fuel collection and overgrazing and consequent erosion by wind and water with dropping water tables etc. These matters seem to bore most blue eyed blondes of “good Aryan type almost as much as these bore mayans and sub-Saharan Africans. I note that the amish and Mennonite farmers apparently brought beer hall polka music to Mexico as well as sustainable farming methods which unfortunately require skilled labor working like Trojans.

  78. @Romanian
    Well, yeah sure, but I got the impression that he was talking about people who already have the EU freedom of movement and could conceivably be very easy to move. Also, they've presumably adopted the Bologna system which makes it easier (still difficult) to compare educational attainment. That's why I mentioned it. Just look at the number of Ukrainians in Poland. Or Russians in Germany.

    By any reasonable standard, most of Western Europe is moving towards a hodge-podge of folks from every culture you're aware of and not aware of :P

    No quibbles then … I was looking past the technicalities to so-called “boots on the ground.”

  79. @Spmoore8
    HiI'm a religious person but there's no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet. The problem is that rolling that back is next to impossible, so we are facing an end game massive destruction of biodiversity, massive loss of quality of life, and massive loss of life when the four horsemen arrive on the scene.

    It has nothing to do with climate change.

    Ultimately it's gonna be a lifeboat problem and there's gonna be guilt either way. Cheers!

    “when the four horsemen arrive on the scene” They’re already here, and the party is just starting to warm up.

  80. Funny how Climate Change™ has devastated crop yields in Africa, yet here in California, Climate Change™ has left us with such a bounty of produce it’s literally rotting in the fields.

    In both cases there is an obvious solution: more immigrantion, of course.

  81. @Altai

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day’s train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?
     
    All those people already have full right to live, work and walk into Germany anytime and shed tonnes of them are already there. And the EU seems game to add tens of millions of Ukrainians to it's already strained labour market.

    I think business promoting this has an NRA feel, no retreat no allowance of restriction on any kind of immigration. Even with all these unemployed 'New Germans', the Germans have, of course, convinced themselves that they only need hard work to turn them into Germans. But there aren't any jobs they are competitive for! Let's deregulate the entire labour market to get them into work, any work, it's an emergency! Will it push down wages for more skilled work, not at first but the increased pressure on the German working class to get skilled credentials will begin to push down wages everywhere.

    Meanwhile German executives laugh as they retire to their super-wealthy all German enclaves.

    “…the Germans have, of course, convinced themselves that they only need hard work to turn them into Germans.”

    Arbeit macht frei. In spite of its current negative associations with der spritzers, it is a core German belief. Work defines who you are. To be unemployed is shameful.

  82. r selected populations won’t control their numbers themselves – they’ll breed to whatever the limit turns out to be

    if the entire culture hadn’t been poisoned by the blank slate nonsense back in the 1920s this would all have been figured out years ago

  83. @dc.sunsets
    The Mexicans with IQ's >100 run Mexico and are very happy there.

    The people flooding the USA are the most marginalized people in Mexico and Central America, who are predominantly of Mayan ancestry and have IQ's about the same as other people whose ancestors were in the Americas for the last 10,000 years.

    Unless I'm misinformed, we're talking barely above Africans as a whole.

    The Mexicans with IQ’s >100 run Mexico and are very happy there.

    Sure, middle class mexicans with high-ish IQs are not coming here, but there is still discrimination and lack of opportunities. If you are a 105IQ small town mestizo and see your 95-IQ cousins go to the USA and make 10 times what you do, you will be tempted to go yourself.

    The people flooding the USA are the most marginalized people in Mexico and Central America, who are predominantly of Mayan ancestry and have IQ’s about the same as other people whose ancestors were in the Americas for the last 10,000 years.

    Mexico is roughly 10% white, 60% Mestizo, 30% indio by US standards. Mexican immigrants to the USA, however, are more like 90% mestizo. Pure-blooded Mexican Indians tend to be 5-2 for men and 4-10 for women, very dark skinned, can’t grow facial hair beyond a little wisp, and may not speak spanish. They lack the ambition and imagination to travel thousands of miles away to work in a foreign land. Which makes sense, mestizos are descended in part by the ballsy fraction of Spanish that crossed an ocean in a wooden ship hundreds of years ago, indios are not.

    Sure such people do end up here in small numbers, but the vast majority of Mexicans I see average around 5-6 for men and have facial hair. You just see a lot more diversity in Mexico itself than in Mexican-American neighborhoods.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Sure, middle class mexicans with high-ish IQs are not coming here, but there is still discrimination and lack of opportunities. If you are a 105IQ small town mestizo and see your 95-IQ cousins go to the USA and make 10 times what you do, you will be tempted to go yourself."

    Not too many Mexican Mestizos have an IQ of 105. If there were a lot, they would not be vastly overrepresented in minimum wage jobs.

    "Mexico is roughly 10% white, 60% Mestizo, 30% indio by US standards."

    The percentage of Mexicans who can racially qualify as Indios is way higher than 30 percent. Remember The U.S uses the one drop rule regarding Indio ancestry, hence why the current Chief of the Cherokee nation is only 1/32 Indio in ancestry and is indistinguishable in phenotype from other Northern European Americans.

    And the vast majority of Mexicans have way more than 1/32 Indio ancestry.

    In Mexico if you are only 1/32 Indio and the rest of your ancestry is Spanish, you are practically a Blanco Conquistador.
  84. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Lower.

    Around 88. You'll get some lawyers, doctors, journeyman academics and engineers out of the upper quintile and that's about it.

    88 IQ for Mexicans? No way. That is only 3 points higher than the African American average. Have a look at grade school test scores by race and you’ll see that’s wrong.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "88 IQ for Mexicans? No way. That is only 3 points higher than the African American average. Have a look at grade school test scores by race and you’ll see that’s wrong."

    Average Mexican IQ is closer to that of African Americans than it is to Chinese Americans for example, that's just a fact.

    You live in San Diego, how many predominantly Mexican K-12 public schools in the 619 are academically killing it? The answer is none.
  85. @Anonymous
    Well, every self-respecting Pashtun claims to be the 'original Aryans' - and thus the brother of the Germans.

    You'd be surprised at the amount of German envy and Nazi worship amongst them.

    It's also why they've all chosen to move in on Germany.

    Well, every self-respecting Pashtun claims to be the ‘original Aryans’ – and thus the brother of the Germans.

    You’d be surprised at the amount of German envy and Nazi worship amongst them.

    The Pashtun were once an impressive race and conquered their neighbors, going all the way south into Northern India. Now they have a startlingly low IQ, probably the lowest IQ of any population with a large fraction of light colored eyes. I’d say this is a result of the smarter Pashtuns leaving the mountains and high levels of incest and high paternal age for those left behind.

  86. @Lot
    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan's support for immigration restrictions.

    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it.

    The media is effectively the nervous system of the body politic and the media are traitors.

  87. @NickG
    The UK Daily Telegraph has reformatted its website and appears to have dispensed with comments.

    I confess that I often skim the article - because you can very often tell without a detailed parsing - exactly what the narrative in it is. The comments often prove far more interesting than the article.

    Yes, I stopped reading it apart from briefly skim the head lines to see what lies the oligarchy are pushing today and move on. I’m expecting – hoping at least – that the comment less segment of the media will gradually become deserted.

  88. @tris
    that goes for much of the MSM. Watching television usually works when you turn off the sound. then you can figure out the running meme by just watching the body language. the MSM are really running their propaganda on a small bag of tricks. once you figure them out, the whole thing becomes a circus and really boring.

    then you can figure out the running meme by just watching the body language.

    This is very true. If you do that you can tell when they know they’re lying.

  89. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @dc.sunsets
    Isn't there a body of research now showing that there's either a mean IQ or a threshold percentage of higher IQ people necessary for any sort of representative political system to function?

    In essence, importing Africa to Europe and Mayans to the USA isn't just about jobs, it is about fundamentally transforming previously civilized places of Industry, Wealth, Low Violence and Pluralistic government into exactly the same places the migrants presume to escape.

    Am I alone in seeing a relationship between population dynamics & movement (which evolved during the last 50 years) and the monetary-debasement, credit-bubble-cum-wealth-inflation-explosion (also evolving during the last 50 years)?

    It all looks like the same Extraordinary Popular Delusion to me.

    Am I alone in seeing a relationship between population dynamics & movement (which evolved during the last 50 years) and the monetary-debasement, credit-bubble-cum-wealth-inflation-explosion (also evolving during the last 50 years)?

    It all looks like the same Extraordinary Popular Delusion to me.

    Going by cui bono you’d need a group of people who benefitted from
    – debasing the currency
    – debt-based consumption
    – importing cheap labor
    and who had enough money to start with to buy the politicians and media required to create the “Extraordinary Popular Delusion” that any of this was a good idea.

    (my guess is the initials are b.m)

  90. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @SPMoore8
    Yes, unskilled Latin immigration is creating a peon underclass, and as time passes we will see what that engenders: rigid class stratification, paternalistic and corrupt central government, the breakdown of authority into competing fiefdoms, and destruction of habitat. Sort of like what we have now, but even worse.

    Ultimately what will happen is that when the Mexican population reaches a tipping point, there will be a union of the US and Mexico, first economic, and then only gradually political, and the corrupt political culture that has governed Latin America for centuries will gradually take over here; Locke and Jefferson will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

    However, the main reason this is going to happen is that most people want their luxuries, and as long as we create low wage underclasses either South of the Border or overseas, there will be no reason to complain. It's the same thing that brings down all empires.

    I don't think the future will be particularly violent. But it will be Latino (to be distinguished from Spanish proper). There's no escape.

    The future is already violent. The media deliberately don’t report it for the same reason they deliberately don’t report what is happening in South Africa

    There’s no escape.

    Sure there is Lord Haw Haw – it’s just the longer it takes for people to realize what’s happening the more violent the end game will have to be – hence the sooner people realize the better.

  91. @AndrewR
    Is that some sort of Afghan Special Ed PE class?

    It’s partly a clannish thing. The national govt orders the villages to send recruits and the villages have no loyalty to the national govt so they send their retards.

  92. Fund massive amounts of NGO’s educating the women. Get the SJW’s free airfare to go over and conduct the sessions. The birth rate will drop precipitously.

    I’d pay more taxes if it were used for foreign aid that educated the women in all those countries.

  93. @Lot
    The reaction of European voters, especially in Northern Europe, is so bizarre I cannot explain it. I disagree with mass Mexican immigration, but I understand why many favor it. Mexicans are generally hard workers, at least nominally Christian, and polite, pleasant people to be around. There are many, many winners in America to mass Mexican immigration, and they tend to be rich and influential. Merkel may not be as popular as 5 years ago, but if Germany had an election today, anti-immigration parties would get 20% of the vote, the far-left would get 15% of the vote, and her centrist coalition government would be retained in power by a landslide.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration? They already have plenty of cheap labor from Eastern Europe, Greece, and Portugal.

    Mexicans are quite capable of skilled blue collar labor like auto manufacturing, and have an IQ average around 100. Africans have IQs of about 70, are mostly Muslim, and have a very low rate of employment. Arabs angrily insist on taking Friday off, prayer breaks multiple times a day, and will on top of this take a whole bunch of smoke breaks.

    Some sophistication is required to see the problems with Mexican immigration. The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. But most people do not realize that big city school districts require $20,000 per child per year.

    Arab and African dysfunction, however, is plain as day. In contrast to Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, and SE Asians, you see Arabs and Africans convey an anti-white belligerence just walking around public spaces.

    German guilt over WWII? That does nothing to explain Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands. It also does not explain Austria, Hungary, and Japan's support for immigration restrictions.

    But who in Germany is benefiting from mass African and Arab immigration?

    The Africans and Arabs. Among the ethnic Germans, the politicians. And those looking to boost their moral image.

  94. @Anonymous
    Some parts of the EU like the Baltic states are really not populated at all and badly need new people.

    Some parts of the EU like the Baltic states are really not populated at all and badly need new people.

    First, no one wants to immigrate to the sparsely populated Baltic states. Not even poor Africans.

    Secondly, even sparsely populated baltic states still have higher population density than many parts of Africa.

  95. Solution: Take some African territories where a majority of the population wants to flee, convert them to privately owned globalist nation states that compete for citizens. They can be run so there isn’t massive starvation and base human suffering. So, many territories in EU and in USA are poor and undesirable, but able bodied people don’t starve.

    At any other point in history, populations like those cited that don’t have basic plans for feeding themselves and choose to have large numbers of children would suffer very high mortality rates, and those that survive would experience lots of basic human suffering. Nations of Europe suffered mass starvations in the 20th century for being less irresponsible than this. I don’t think they should be forced to suffer, but I do think it’s unreasonable that because of extreme irresponsibility in Africa, that the working class of Germany and England needs to take responsibility and give up ethnic sovereignty in their homelands to provide better lifestyles, yet the people of the nations that were irresponsible retain full ethnic homelands and sovereignty.

  96. @Anonymous
    "The hard-working Mexican couple seems to be good citizens, but will always be large net consumers of public services because they never make enough money to pay substantial taxes. "

    Since half of US born Mexicans marry whites, I expect there to be in the next generation an olive complexioned race that's not quite fully white but also not quite a minority group. They will be net contributors like Italians (or if you don't view Italians in the US as net contributors they won't be any more detrimental than the US born generations of those immigrants).

    I think that most of the Whites that are taking up with Mexicans are downwardly mobile. Make that more-downwardly-mobile-than-average if you will. They will assimilate to Mexican ways, and not carry their weight economically or as citizens.

    • Replies: @anon
    Yes, that's what is happening at the bottom. The segment of the white population who have already been economically crushed are being absorbed into the various immigrant ethnic blocs - some are becoming part of the black population, some are becoming part of the hispanic population etc - it's not integration it's disintegration.
  97. @Romanian
    Just a quibble - the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian, which come out at roughly 11 million people. Add to the them 19 million Romanians (many have gone already, but still) and that's basically it. Not really enough to feed the maw of cheap labor, right? Also, these populations are waaay below replacement rate fertility and past their demographic dividend. Therefore, a finite resource. And I'm not too keen on inhabiting an empty country, especially if some moron in power decides at the last minute to make up the difference by importing third worlders.

    …the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian…

    When did Czech, Slovaks and Poles stop being Slavs? Why wasn’t I informed of that?

    • Replies: @Romanian
    You are right. My reason was led astray by my Balkan biases. I made another mea culpa in this thread.
  98. @Steve Sailer
    If Germany was really interested in workers, they could recruit people from East Asia, such as smart Chinese or amenable Filipinos and Thais. Southern Indian Hindus tend to be obsequious and nonviolent. Southern Brazil and Argentina, judging from the ranks of blonde models, have a lot of ethnic Germans who might be willing to come home.

    And there is a giant number of poorly paid Slavs and Romanians within a day's train trip of German. Oh, and how about all the underemployed South Europeans, such as the Greeks?

    But instead they are letting in Arabs and Afghans. Afghans! They have the obnoxious qualities of Arabs, plus they're really backward and disorganized. Afghans are the anti-Germans:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFkSIm1BlQ

    African recruits would at least have a better sense of rhythm.

  99. @syonredux
    Gregory Clark on Hispanic immigration:

    Given current patterns of immigration to the United States, Washington faces an enormous policy challenge. Two in five of all immigrants to the United States are from Mexico and Central America. Latinos now constitute 22 percent of all children in the United States; by 2050, they are expected to be 39 percent. But the social status of Latinos, even those born in the United States, is persistently low.

    This perhaps shouldn’t be a surprise, given that migrants from Mexico and Central America tend to be negatively selected from their home populations: they are often the people who found themselves in such desperate economic circumstances at home that they preferred to live as illegal immigrants in the United States. (Latinos constitute nearly half of the foreign born in the United States, but four in five of illegal migrants.) The effects have been dire: there can be no doubt that immigration is widening social inequality in the United States.

    Consider the table below, which shows educational attainment of 25–34-year-olds in the United States in 2009. Descendants of Latino immigrants are dropping out of high school at rates far in excess of the domestic population and the descendants of other immigrant groups; similarly, the Latino population is much less likely than those other groups to complete higher education. Educational attainment in all societies is a strong predictor of future social status, and the prediction here for the Latino population is not good.

    This pattern shows up even more starkly in California, where recent immigrants are more numerous than in the United States as a whole, and more diverse in terms of social status. Yet Californian policymakers have not reckoned with the consequences. There is an optimistic assumption that tinkering with social policies — such as making it easier, financially and academically, for Latinos to enter public colleges — will allow Latino education and income levels to quickly catch up with the rest of the state. But as was noted above for countries such as Sweden there is no evidence that social mobility rates can be raised by more intensive public support of disadvantaged families. Despite such support in Sweden, the children of immigrants currently perform significantly less well in educational achievement tests than the domestic population. The United States is likely to soon have the unprecedented situation of fostering a semi-permanent underclass.

     

    gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion >http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141932/gregory-clark/the-american-dream-is-an-illusion

    All educational and crime statistics for Hispanics are lies, intended to conceal their failings.

  100. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Discard
    I think that most of the Whites that are taking up with Mexicans are downwardly mobile. Make that more-downwardly-mobile-than-average if you will. They will assimilate to Mexican ways, and not carry their weight economically or as citizens.

    Yes, that’s what is happening at the bottom. The segment of the white population who have already been economically crushed are being absorbed into the various immigrant ethnic blocs – some are becoming part of the black population, some are becoming part of the hispanic population etc – it’s not integration it’s disintegration.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Yes, that’s what is happening at the bottom. The segment of the white population who have already been economically crushed are being absorbed into the various immigrant ethnic blocs – some are becoming part of the black population, some are becoming part of the hispanic population etc – it’s not integration it’s disintegration."

    In California cities far from the coast like Davis, Stockton, Fresno, and Modesto for example, you see a lot of White trash Gringa looking chicks with thuggish looking Mexican boyfriends.

    Not too many Mexican guys in The U.S are getting the cream of the crop White Gringa women.

  101. @Spmoore8
    HiI'm a religious person but there's no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet. The problem is that rolling that back is next to impossible, so we are facing an end game massive destruction of biodiversity, massive loss of quality of life, and massive loss of life when the four horsemen arrive on the scene.

    It has nothing to do with climate change.

    Ultimately it's gonna be a lifeboat problem and there's gonna be guilt either way. Cheers!

    HiI’m a religious person but there’s no question in my mind that there are too many people on the planet. The problem is that rolling that back is next to impossible …

    Mr. Moore … it’s not that bad.

    Actually about 3/4 of the land area of the planet already has or is very near sub-replacement fertility. US, Cananda, Europe, Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Australia already have sub-replacement fertility–far sub-replacement *native* fertility. Latin America is close. The more advanced muslim states are getting there. Even India and Indonesia have moved close–2.5.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate

    The more backward muslim states–eg. Pakistan–and *Africa* are the laggards–who must be contained.

    The problem is not overpopulation but *immigration*.

    The population numbers would have stabilized\be stabilizing across most of the world’s surface *but* for the immigration insanity. If we could simply shut up these immigration cheerleaders, and end immigration, most of the world would quickly come into stability and even be enjoying the demographic dividend of declining population–more open space, cheaper housing, less crowded infrastructure, less …. pressured life.

    It’s the immigration cheerleaders who are screwing up the world. Kill them off … and it’s a beautiful world.

  102. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Legal immigrants: hints of IQ scores, http://isteve.blogspot.com, 2009:

    “Here are Jason Richwine’s calculations of scores from the 2003 New Immigrant Survey of the backward digit span subtest from the Wechsler IQ test. These are for the children of legal permanent resident immigrants:

    White natives are at 100, with a standard deviation of 15.

    European legal immigrants’ kids: 99

    India: 112

    Northeast Asia: 106

    Southeast Asia: 104

    sub-Saharan Africa 89

    Mexico 82

    Central America/Caribbean 83

    South America 86

    Anyway, this is just a single subtest, but it’s interesting…”

  103. @San Fernando Curt
    One key development in this year's election is growing obviousness of media's scorn for workaday Americans. People heard 'globalization' and 'immigration' out of the mouth of a Presidential candidate and, picking themselves up after collapsing in shock, jumped on Trump's bandwagon so fast they jostled off the tuba section. But for our deceitful, corrupt media, his popularity is due to schmacism and American tendency to air our Klan laundry whenever a chance pops up. With that appraisal in every newscast, on every fishwrap in the country, even the most studiously inattentive among us note our information industry reflexively spitting in our faces. And the dogmatic narrative has become unmistakable, as well. Yes, let's pin desertification on your Jetta, soccer mom. ...Your F-150, hayseed. How about that fat carbon footprint you call a house, peasant? Can't be result of too many buns in the oven with our blessed Migrant Class.

    With that obviousness, and with media's apparent obliviousness to it, there's only one conclusion: Media has stupefied itself. It doesn't even notice we no longer buy into its slop. Its devotion to counterintuitive yarn-spinning has rendered it retarded.

  104. @Anonymous
    Italians who migrated to the US are from the south. Places like Calabria and Sicily have a GDP that is like half of the Italian national average (and remember you have to take into account the annual transfer payments from wealthy Italy to these southerners and also the wages earned by southerners with something on the ball in northern employment markets and the remittances sent back).

    So basically places like Calabria if standing alone would do little better than Mexico.

    How do 2nd generation Italians do relative to other whites in New York and the East Coast? Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).

    “So basically places like Calabria if standing alone would do little better than Mexico.”

    Even Southern Italy has a signficantly higher human development index than Mexico.

    “How do 2nd generation Italians do relative to other whites in New York and the East Coast?”

    Italians in The U.S are doing quite well. The 2 largest cities in the country New York City and Los Angeles, both have mayors with Italian last names. Of the 17 Republican candidates who ran for POTUS this year, 4 of them have Italian ancestry. In a lot of the affluent suburbs in Long Island, New Jersey, and Connecticut, Italians are the largest White group percentage wise. On average Italians in The U.S earn over $25,000 thousand dollars a year more than Mexicans.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

    “Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).”

    Mexicans will never absorb into the White majority because their demographic numbers are just way too big, especially in The Southwest.

    Mexicans in The U.S will always remain very visible Minorities both phenotype wise and culturally, just like Blacks and Asians.

    It is extremely hard to not notice Mexicans both culturally and phenotype wise in cities like Los Angeles and Phoenix for example. U.S cities with huge Mexican populations do not feel and look like Whitopias.

  105. @Anonymous
    Italians who migrated to the US are from the south. Places like Calabria and Sicily have a GDP that is like half of the Italian national average (and remember you have to take into account the annual transfer payments from wealthy Italy to these southerners and also the wages earned by southerners with something on the ball in northern employment markets and the remittances sent back).

    So basically places like Calabria if standing alone would do little better than Mexico.

    How do 2nd generation Italians do relative to other whites in New York and the East Coast? Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).

    “Considering US born Mexicans are marrying non-Hispanic whites at almost 30%, how many pure Mexicans will exist in the 3rd and 4th generations? Those are the leftover people. The majority will have been absorbed into the white majority and perform like southern Italians and also identify as an ethnic variety of white (guidos).”

    Mexicans are not even among the top 10 Whitest Latin American ethnic groups, let alone as White as Southern Italians.

    Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Colombia, Costa Rica, Venezuela, and Chile all have a higher percentage of Whites than Mexico.

    America is extremely unlucky in sharing a border with one of the least White Latin American countries.

  106. @Lot
    88 IQ for Mexicans? No way. That is only 3 points higher than the African American average. Have a look at grade school test scores by race and you'll see that's wrong.

    “88 IQ for Mexicans? No way. That is only 3 points higher than the African American average. Have a look at grade school test scores by race and you’ll see that’s wrong.”

    Average Mexican IQ is closer to that of African Americans than it is to Chinese Americans for example, that’s just a fact.

    You live in San Diego, how many predominantly Mexican K-12 public schools in the 619 are academically killing it? The answer is none.

  107. @Lot

    The Mexicans with IQ’s >100 run Mexico and are very happy there.
     
    Sure, middle class mexicans with high-ish IQs are not coming here, but there is still discrimination and lack of opportunities. If you are a 105IQ small town mestizo and see your 95-IQ cousins go to the USA and make 10 times what you do, you will be tempted to go yourself.

    The people flooding the USA are the most marginalized people in Mexico and Central America, who are predominantly of Mayan ancestry and have IQ’s about the same as other people whose ancestors were in the Americas for the last 10,000 years.
     

    Mexico is roughly 10% white, 60% Mestizo, 30% indio by US standards. Mexican immigrants to the USA, however, are more like 90% mestizo. Pure-blooded Mexican Indians tend to be 5-2 for men and 4-10 for women, very dark skinned, can't grow facial hair beyond a little wisp, and may not speak spanish. They lack the ambition and imagination to travel thousands of miles away to work in a foreign land. Which makes sense, mestizos are descended in part by the ballsy fraction of Spanish that crossed an ocean in a wooden ship hundreds of years ago, indios are not.

    Sure such people do end up here in small numbers, but the vast majority of Mexicans I see average around 5-6 for men and have facial hair. You just see a lot more diversity in Mexico itself than in Mexican-American neighborhoods.

    “Sure, middle class mexicans with high-ish IQs are not coming here, but there is still discrimination and lack of opportunities. If you are a 105IQ small town mestizo and see your 95-IQ cousins go to the USA and make 10 times what you do, you will be tempted to go yourself.”

    Not too many Mexican Mestizos have an IQ of 105. If there were a lot, they would not be vastly overrepresented in minimum wage jobs.

    “Mexico is roughly 10% white, 60% Mestizo, 30% indio by US standards.”

    The percentage of Mexicans who can racially qualify as Indios is way higher than 30 percent. Remember The U.S uses the one drop rule regarding Indio ancestry, hence why the current Chief of the Cherokee nation is only 1/32 Indio in ancestry and is indistinguishable in phenotype from other Northern European Americans.

    And the vast majority of Mexicans have way more than 1/32 Indio ancestry.

    In Mexico if you are only 1/32 Indio and the rest of your ancestry is Spanish, you are practically a Blanco Conquistador.

  108. @anon
    Yes, that's what is happening at the bottom. The segment of the white population who have already been economically crushed are being absorbed into the various immigrant ethnic blocs - some are becoming part of the black population, some are becoming part of the hispanic population etc - it's not integration it's disintegration.

    “Yes, that’s what is happening at the bottom. The segment of the white population who have already been economically crushed are being absorbed into the various immigrant ethnic blocs – some are becoming part of the black population, some are becoming part of the hispanic population etc – it’s not integration it’s disintegration.”

    In California cities far from the coast like Davis, Stockton, Fresno, and Modesto for example, you see a lot of White trash Gringa looking chicks with thuggish looking Mexican boyfriends.

    Not too many Mexican guys in The U.S are getting the cream of the crop White Gringa women.

  109. @Anonymous
    Some parts of the EU like the Baltic states are really not populated at all and badly need new people.

    Remember this gem?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/opinion/let-refugees-settle-italys-empty-spaces.html

    Let refugees settle Italy’s open space. Wagon trains through Tuscany and all that.

  110. @Expletive Deleted
    Holy fuck! You mean the Poles, Czechs and Slovaks (current European Council Presidency holders) have been taking the piss, and are actually some sort of non-lazy Brit all along? Which is why they're all here in England already. Sort of makes sense now. I shall be having words with them, the cheeky sods ...

    Yeah, my bad. I don’t think of them as such, and the Poles are Catholic (ok, so are the Croats). Maybe I am subconsciously anti-Slavic (really, I’m not). My reflex is to think of the Slavs in the more Russian oriented sphere, like Yugoslavia. Poles seem so Western by now, let alone the Czechs. But you’re right.

    It was funny that your handle is Expletive Deleted and your first words were Holy Fuck!

  111. @Mark Eugenikos

    ...the only Slavs currently in the EU are Croatian and Bulgarian...
     
    When did Czech, Slovaks and Poles stop being Slavs? Why wasn't I informed of that?

    You are right. My reason was led astray by my Balkan biases. I made another mea culpa in this thread.

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