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"How Would America Evolve Under Open Borders?"
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At Marginal Revolution, Tyler Cowen asks, “How would America evolve under open borders?

America under Open Borders would be just like America in 2015 is, only more so: one huge iSteve blog. The Sailer Worldview would be so obviously correct under these conditions that life for nice white people would be a nonstop frenzy of Two Minute Hates as everybody accuses everybody else of being a Thought Criminal to prevent being accused yourself.

Okay, I’ll admit it, it’s professionally tempting.

But I’ve got enough material as it is already. I don’t need the Cato Institute and the WSJ increasing my workload by an order of magnitude.

 
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  1. I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @grey enlightenment2


    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.

     

    Of course it creates jobs. For social workers.

    The real question is whether the jobs it creates make up for the jobs and wages lost by natives.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    , @ben tillman
    @grey enlightenment2


    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.
     
    This is not something subjective about which an opinion is possible. Under some sets of facts, immigration would create jobs, at least in the short term. Those sets of facts would involve the immigrants' bringing lots of capital to the destination country. We do not have facts like that in the USA or any majority-White country into which the rulers are bringing immigrants
    , @AnAnon
    @grey enlightenment2

    As population density goes up, consumption goes up, but that consumption is more efficient. the result is a massive amount of surplus labor. If you look at which countries America runs a trade deficit with for example, Nations that have a greater population density than us will run surpluses with us, and nations with a lower population density than us run deficits with us.

    It will create a few more jobs, for a lot more people to fill.

    , @iSteveFan
    @grey enlightenment2


    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.
     
    Let's be clear. Those folks are not discussing immigration. They are discussing mass immigration. Immigration is something that is hardly noticeable at times. It brings in a select amount of folks to fill certain niche gaps and to compensate for whatever emigration might take place.

    Mass immigration is completely different as it imports groups in large enough numbers so as to alter the population makeup of a nation which leads to changes in its culture and values. So assuming your question is in regards to mass immigration, just ask yourself the following. Where else, besides insanely crazy white nations, is it being practiced? And if mass immigration is the key to job growth and the road to riches, why is it Mexico and a host of other nations are not preventing their peasants from leaving, and trying to draw in as many of their neighbors as possible? I mean Mexico could become a rich economic super power if they just kept their peasants from leaving, and invited all of Central America into Mexico.

    But they are not doing that. No one is doing that except the crazy white nations. And the crazy white nations seem to be on a decline when it comes to quality of life issues and such.

    Also, use the NE Asians as a barometer. They have no problem adopting Western ideas such as high tech, classical music, and our education system. But they don't seem to want to touch mass immigration at all. That should tell you something.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Wilkey

    , @Anonymous
    @grey enlightenment2

    We don't need more people to create more jobs. I'd be happy for the moment just to be able to drive across Los Angeles at Rush Hour (or any other time for that matter).

  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A ridiculously easy one to answer.

    Just look at the ongoing situation in that three-ring circus which is the EU, most notably the slapstick antics happening right now in Lesbos, Calais, Macedonia, Lampedusa, Sweden and last but not least, Germany which confidently expects 800,000 ‘migrants’ or 1% of the entire German population to enter this year alone.

    My point is that here, ongoing and eye-witnessed via the magic of telecommunications we can get the merest taste hint of what ‘open borders’ actually means in practice, rather than the mass of verbiage obfuscation which is standard fare for today’s ‘economists’.
    Here, we have a limited ‘rationed’ type of ‘open borders’ regime, in which the claim in being Syrian, Afghan’ Iraqi, even Pakistani, is the crucial binding condition. Thus under this limiting condition, ‘migrants’ are effectively whittled down from the ‘optimum’.

    Rest assured, that the ‘optimum’ for Germany, at least, is more like 8,000,000 per anuum – and exponentially rising – than 800,000.

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    @Anonymous

    The Osties were saved from the German bloodguilt thing until the wall fell. They don't have that reflexive "we are all evil Jew-killers" thing the way West Germans do. And they are starting to break free. The German government is meeting stiff resistance in the East to refugee-dumping as I write. Regular Germans are demonstrating and rioting in the East. I expect it is going to speed.

    One nice thing: the black hoodie Antifa Marxists seem to have left the East German battlefield.

  3. How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe? How would Tyler Cowen’s household evolve, if one room was rented to a family of South Americans, and in his backyard a lean-to was erected and some Sudanese moved in? What an a**hole.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    , @Pat Casey
    @Anonym

    omg LOL.

    And that Nathan Smith sums up by saying optimists and pessimists will both be right, whence I realized that could be true, because the libertarians just want bigger numbers about the economy for their econometrics, since well cause they probably don't go out much, as humans tend to, and would less when we open the borders, what with all the more numbers to ogle.

  4. I guess one person’s evolution is another’s demographic destruction.

  5. @Anonym
    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe? How would Tyler Cowen's household evolve, if one room was rented to a family of South Americans, and in his backyard a lean-to was erected and some Sudanese moved in? What an a**hole.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Pat Casey

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Harry Baldwin

    BTW, that's what Saul Goodman did: "My real name's McGill. The Jew thing I just do for the homeboys. They all want a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak."

    Replies: @Jefferson

    , @SFG
    @Harry Baldwin

    Most of the connected Jews (i.e. the ones who can get you into the good jobs, etc.) know each other from summer camp, high school, etc. In that it's much like the old WASP elite, but with bigger noses.

    Think about it: you could convert to Episcopalianism, sure, but you haven't been to Groton.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Anonymous

    , @neutral
    @Harry Baldwin

    The gatekeepers of the jews are the jews. Unlike the other nonsense like Caitlyn or gay marriage, nobody would dare try call themselves a jew. Imagine for a moment 10 million Nigerians declared themselves jewish and wanted to move to Israel ? This would never be allowed.

    Replies: @SFG

    , @Big Bill
    @Harry Baldwin

    The most important gatekeepers are in Israel. Primarily the government-funded religious courts. They vet Jewish breeding papers and conversion documents from all over the world on an ad hoc basis. There is no generally agreed upon worldwide AKC-type registry, however.

    , @pyrrhus
    @Harry Baldwin

    You can identify as a Jew all you want, but the Jews will identify you otherwise....

    Replies: @silviosilver

    , @Jefferson
    @Harry Baldwin

    "Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish."

    Goy actors/actresses in Hollywood play Jewish roles all of the time and vice versa with Jews playing Goy roles.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Harry Baldwin

    Christopher Hitchens' great-great-grandmother was Jewish, so he decided he was Jewish.

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew

  6. The article seems to imply that internal European immigrants would be a useful parallel to Mexican Americans if not for the massive scale of migration to America. Do 50 college students go missing forever in Spain? Do people get hung off of bridges? Open border advocates would do well to acknowledge that a Englishman immigrating to Germany is be more successful than a Mexican immigrating to America.

    Here’s the interesting thing: I think the author does believe that the American situation is different, he’s just not being completely honest as to why. If the entire French population moved to Germany over 50 years, would he be predicting compulsory police training to deal with street crime? How about a completely giving up of the idea that “all men are created equal”? Of course not. The GMU lunch table believes in a degree of racial real talk, they just also believe in the white man’s burden. And of course, our precious GDP. Its just so convenient when “reducing inequality” seems to also benefit Wall Street.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @duderino

    Its just so convenient when “reducing inequality” seems to also benefit Wall Street.

    Until it doesn't, one day.

    The Libertarians seem to think everyone can create value and resources unto infinity. I suspect that that is not the way to bet.

    We're barreling towards a machine future, with humans existing largely as pets. Spaying and neutering services may be required.

  7. Pat Casey says:
    @Anonym
    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe? How would Tyler Cowen's household evolve, if one room was rented to a family of South Americans, and in his backyard a lean-to was erected and some Sudanese moved in? What an a**hole.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Pat Casey

    omg LOL.

    And that Nathan Smith sums up by saying optimists and pessimists will both be right, whence I realized that could be true, because the libertarians just want bigger numbers about the economy for their econometrics, since well cause they probably don’t go out much, as humans tend to, and would less when we open the borders, what with all the more numbers to ogle.

  8. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It would be less evolution but rather sudden transformation into something totally different. Mass violence in the streets would be a certainty as the invaders wouldn’t have any jobs or income so would have to support themselves by robbing and looting the residents while also raping them for sport. There’s already violence in Germany as the government works to suppress it’s own citizens. South Africa has also had it’s tumult. This brings into sharp focus the question of on whose behalf are all the various governments supposed to be working. If the current crop won’t step up to the plate it wouldn’t be surprising if a new Mussolini were to emerge.

  9. @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    BTW, that’s what Saul Goodman did: “My real name’s McGill. The Jew thing I just do for the homeboys. They all want a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak.”

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Harry Baldwin

    "BTW, that’s what Saul Goodman did: “My real name’s McGill. The Jew thing I just do for the homeboys. They all want a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak.”

    I didn't know there is a huge Homeboy population in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Unless he is talking about Mexican thugs when referring to Homeboys and not African American thugs.

    From what I gather Albuquerque is one of the few big cities in the U.S that has zero Black neighborhoods because the percentage of Blacks there is so low. Another big American city that shares this uniqueness is San Jose, California. There are no Black neighborhoods there either. Notice that both of these big cities are located in the Western part of the country. Big cities with no Black neighborhoods are non existent in the Midwest, the Northeast, and the Southeast.

  10. Pat Casey says:

    The criminal justice system and traffic court would have to be automated, which might be in the possible realm, if every cop wears a camera, or every cop is a camera, cause Judges are generally useless, or unjust grandstanders anyways. Right now every public defender in this nation is overloaded by an order of magnitude, and every jail is overcrowded and understaffed, basically every single one. Right to a speedy trial is not enforced whatsoever. Every lawyer could become a secretary entering data, deservedly. When was the last additional courthouse built in this country? I bet a few a year, maybe. The criminal justice system, if the USA were healthy, would be about three times bigger than it is today. Open the boarders and the beaners would be as Reagan said of the Irish: we built this country, down to the jails, which we proceeded to fill.

    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    @Pat Casey

    Maybe privatizing jails would work, since our prisons are a plenty that way. But northern virginia, which is not poor, has one city and federal jail for Alexandria, which is illegally overcrowded, and keep in mind it gets federal monies, and if you grievance the fire hazard that is your overcrowded cell, they send you to prison, because they can't remedy the situation otherwise. I saw them do it to the litigious idiot who made a stink in all seriousness about a matter of five inches as he clutched official regulations some CO didn't hide.

    , @MarkinLA
    @Pat Casey

    Try getting the immigrants to pay a fine. Then you have to issue a bench warrant and put them in jail when you catch them.

  11. Brazil.

    Poorer and more crowded, with really huge slums.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @SFG

    Brazil.

    Poorer and more crowded, with really huge slums.

     

    Ah, but immigration improved Brazil. Because it was done right.

    They get the right people from the right places, with the right attitudes. So do we, but since 1965 they've been swamped by the wrong people from the wrong places, with the wrong attitudes.

    Brazil is like the US South until recently-- racially mixed and divided, but still culturally coherent.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @SFG

    , @silviosilver
    @SFG

    I'm thinking more like India is the logical endpoint. After all, Brazil still has white people. India, not so much.

  12. @grey enlightenment2
    I've read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn't.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman, @AnAnon, @iSteveFan, @Anonymous

    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.

    Of course it creates jobs. For social workers.

    The real question is whether the jobs it creates make up for the jobs and wages lost by natives.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Reg Cæsar

    Immigration also creates jobs for academics, or at least preserves them. What institutions are most directly affected by a drop in the absolute population of children and young people? Schools.

  13. @grey enlightenment2
    I've read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn't.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman, @AnAnon, @iSteveFan, @Anonymous

    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.

    This is not something subjective about which an opinion is possible. Under some sets of facts, immigration would create jobs, at least in the short term. Those sets of facts would involve the immigrants’ bringing lots of capital to the destination country. We do not have facts like that in the USA or any majority-White country into which the rulers are bringing immigrants

  14. @SFG
    Brazil.


    Poorer and more crowded, with really huge slums.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @silviosilver

    Brazil.

    Poorer and more crowded, with really huge slums.

    Ah, but immigration improved Brazil. Because it was done right.

    They get the right people from the right places, with the right attitudes. So do we, but since 1965 they’ve been swamped by the wrong people from the wrong places, with the wrong attitudes.

    Brazil is like the US South until recently– racially mixed and divided, but still culturally coherent.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    @Reg Cæsar

    Brazil is notable for the fairly recent growth in 'Pentecostal' Protestantism, it's history under popular rule is almost as recent. For most of its history it was an authoritarian state of some stripe.

    I foresee a split

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Brazilian_States_by_Race.svg

    , @SFG
    @Reg Cæsar

    I think you're being sarcastic--Brazil is poorer than the US, and even more plagued by crime. We don't want to be like them--right?

  15. The first place to start is the here and now. We’ve had three decades of mass immigration and not all parts of the country have responded the same. New England with it’s Yankee culture of conformism has relegated the immigrants to the fringes, just as they did blacks in the past.

    The Midwest would balkanize in areas dominated by the Midlands culture, but you would have islands of hyper white areas that would dominate state and regional politics. You see this in California where Northern California dominates Southern California politically.

    The South would be very interesting. Bordering Appalachia, they would have three problems. One is the fighting between the Hispanics and blacks for their place in the hierarchy. Then they would have to contend with the Scots-Irish mountain culture on their border. There’s not been a lot of immigration into coal country for a reason. Then they would have to deal with Yankee gasbags lecturing them about how they treat the Hispanics.

    The way to bet, it seems to me, is for the Yankee parts of the country to break away and the rest to let them go, rather than attack.

  16. @Reg Cæsar
    @grey enlightenment2


    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.

     

    Of course it creates jobs. For social workers.

    The real question is whether the jobs it creates make up for the jobs and wages lost by natives.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Immigration also creates jobs for academics, or at least preserves them. What institutions are most directly affected by a drop in the absolute population of children and young people? Schools.

  17. Pat Casey says:
    @Pat Casey
    The criminal justice system and traffic court would have to be automated, which might be in the possible realm, if every cop wears a camera, or every cop is a camera, cause Judges are generally useless, or unjust grandstanders anyways. Right now every public defender in this nation is overloaded by an order of magnitude, and every jail is overcrowded and understaffed, basically every single one. Right to a speedy trial is not enforced whatsoever. Every lawyer could become a secretary entering data, deservedly. When was the last additional courthouse built in this country? I bet a few a year, maybe. The criminal justice system, if the USA were healthy, would be about three times bigger than it is today. Open the boarders and the beaners would be as Reagan said of the Irish: we built this country, down to the jails, which we proceeded to fill.

    Replies: @Pat Casey, @MarkinLA

    Maybe privatizing jails would work, since our prisons are a plenty that way. But northern virginia, which is not poor, has one city and federal jail for Alexandria, which is illegally overcrowded, and keep in mind it gets federal monies, and if you grievance the fire hazard that is your overcrowded cell, they send you to prison, because they can’t remedy the situation otherwise. I saw them do it to the litigious idiot who made a stink in all seriousness about a matter of five inches as he clutched official regulations some CO didn’t hide.

  18. How “would” America evolve? As if it hasn’t already been happening and we haven’t already seen it pretty much in full?

    Aside from the obvious – the anarchy, the dumbing down, the complete destruction of democracy as any common thread of understanding evaporates and democracy turns into a game of organized theft – what seems the most likely but not yet fully understood aspect is that state violence turns inward. Instead of the government being organized to spy and commit violence against foreign threats to protect the unity, its intelligence and military branches turn inward to guard against all the threats that have been created by the massive internal social divisions.

    You want your country to be a global village, a microcosm of the world? You got it. Now watch as all the animosity normally directed towards foreign threats becomes directed against the subjects. And in this context let’s use the correct word – subjects. Let’s no longer pretend that use of the word “citizen” is anything but laughable, and that our politicians haven’t entirely dispensed with the notion of managing the country on their behalf.

  19. How would America evolve under open borders?

    Really, that little video of the bears in the pool is not a bad analogy.

  20. @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    Most of the connected Jews (i.e. the ones who can get you into the good jobs, etc.) know each other from summer camp, high school, etc. In that it’s much like the old WASP elite, but with bigger noses.

    Think about it: you could convert to Episcopalianism, sure, but you haven’t been to Groton.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @SFG

    I don't know, I've been taken for a Jew several times in my career just because my name is German and I don't look distinctly non-Jewish. It may have done me some good. My father, who was in academia, told me the same thing.

    A Jewish executive I had worked with for years at an ad agency was shocked when she heard I was going to be at work on Yom Kippur. "What kind of Jew are you?" she asked.

    "A Catholic one?" I answered.

    Replies: @manton, @fnn, @SFG, @Anon

    , @Anonymous
    @SFG

    I've kind of been thinking that it might be funny for someone to write "The Jewish Handbook", a la "The Preppy Handbook" from 1980. ; )

  21. I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs .

    … jobs for government workers, non-profit-organization workers, teachers, church workers, policemen and prison guards.

  22. @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    The gatekeepers of the jews are the jews. Unlike the other nonsense like Caitlyn or gay marriage, nobody would dare try call themselves a jew. Imagine for a moment 10 million Nigerians declared themselves jewish and wanted to move to Israel ? This would never be allowed.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @neutral

    10 million, yes, that would never be allowed. If some Italian guy here tries to pass himself off, he might get away with it.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  23. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    The Lib West thinks it’s doing a big favor to the non-west by promoting open borders and ‘diversity’, but it is actually harming the non-west by setting a bad example that leads to suicide, amnesia, and loss of identity.

    The West still leads, and elites around the world take their cue from the West.
    So, if the Western way is to reject one’s own identity and heritage and stop defending one’s borders, this sick idea will infect non-western nations as well.

    The Alt Right is the best example for the non-west. Alt Right in the West calls for defense of the West, and this example will inspire non-western nations to defend their own borders and identity.

    Universal nationalism. Good for every nation.

    Also, Alt Right is anti-imperialist whereas meddlesome neocons, democracy-promoters, and homo-crusaders are in neo-imperialist mode.

  24. @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    The most important gatekeepers are in Israel. Primarily the government-funded religious courts. They vet Jewish breeding papers and conversion documents from all over the world on an ad hoc basis. There is no generally agreed upon worldwide AKC-type registry, however.

  25. How would America evolve under open borders?

    It wouldn’t. It would continue to devolve, but at a faster rate than it is now.

    Was that supposed to be a trick question?

    • Agree: Auntie Analogue
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    @Kylie

    I don't think Canada wants open borders with the US.

    Why would Canada want everyone in Detroit coming over there?

    There is something sick in the white soul.

    It's like US already has enough headache with blacks, but places like St. Paul imports yet more blacks from Somalia. Maybe they figure slender Somali blacks are better than American blacks.

    I dunno. It's still crazy.

  26. Reading some of what Cowan linked to, I realize these guys think open borders will bring the Libertarian millenium closer. Their logic is that a US of a billion brown people will render traditional values like nondiscrimination and one-man-one-vote so obviously untenable that we’ll all go live in gated enclaves protected by private police patrolling private streets walked by voucher-bearing schoolchildren.

    Gaaa!

    To quote just one, and not even particularly egregious, example of their thinking:

    We would see some modern latifundia, worked not by slaves this time but by voluntary immigrants…working for pay rates that would strike native-born Americans as a form of slave labor.

    It’s weird to read the details of a horrifying future, and realize the writer is presenting it as a good thing!

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @International Jew


    Reading some of what Cowan linked to, I realize these guys think open borders will bring the Libertarian millenium closer.
     
    Just think of Tyler Cowan in the Aspergers-autism spectrum. Others have made this comment and it helped me understand the idiocy of this high IQ person and others like him. Instead of someone who can teach functional real world economics to young skulls full of mush we have this guy making at least $200,000 per year when you factor in his outside money making activities.
    Are there any well known university economists decrying our awful free trade deals? And that open borders hurts the US middle class? None that I can think of, instead the universities are full of Cowan clones
    , @Anonymous
    @International Jew

    Nathan Smith is arguing all is lost anyway so why not just jettison pretensions. One could make the same argument at any point in our history.

    The adult view is that all Republics have a limited lifespan. Angry children fantasize about flushing the world down the toilet.

    After Rome fell there were many great societies in Italy. Modern Italy is a pretty great place to live.

    We don't live in the authentic America obviously. The Founders would've hanged FDR for confiscating gold. Wilson for creating the Fed etc etc etc. It is what it is.

    Read the final section:

    I’m not so fond of democracy that my loyalty to a regime would depend very greatly on its democratic character, but I am very, very fond of telling the truth, and I can have no respect for, and no loyalty to, judges who, in decreeing gay marriage, pretend that they’re interpreting the Constitution. Modern constitutional law is a lot like the Catholic Church’s theology of indulgences in the 15th and early 16th centuries. It makes very little sense, and every critical thinker more or less feels that it’s a disgraceful travesty, but people are afraid to challenge it as aggressively as reason demands, because it underpins the order of society. Reams and libraries are dedicated to rationalizing it, precisely because it’s rationally indefensible, yet is a crucial currency of power. And yes, I’d like to see modern constitutional law immolated in a kind of Lutheran Reformation, and would gladly pay a high price in chaos to see the dragon slain. Thanks to my low opinion of the US constitutional regime as it currently exists is one reason, I can contemplate with very little distress the immigration of a billion or so people from all over the world, unschooled in the peculiar mythology of early 21st-century American democracy and its ever-more-irrational cult of equality.

    Replies: @IA

  27. (even) Lower wages, (even) lower quality of life, (even) fewer white families with (even)fewer children, etc, etc. Duh. It would go on indefinitely, just getting worse and worse because we’re not going to do anything to stop it. Eventually we get to a boot stamping on a human face forever, with bonus of mass scale sex slavery.

    I expect this thread is going to have a few of the typical comments like “this will eventually provoke a white (violent) backlash” “when the saxon begins to hate, blah blah blah”

    I think these comments are basically impotent rage/wishful thinking from old guys. I think whites are going to keep trying to run away, and then we’ll basically die off.

    If you’re one of those guys posting that stuff, please include your theories on how this “backlash” 1. starts and 2. develops into anything other than occasional lone wolf freakouts, i.e. how is it organized?

    edit- please spare us the tactical porn about how easy it would be for 6 rednecks with deer rifles to blah blah blah. what i want to hear you explain is how you expect these 6 guys to meet, decide to act, ensure none of them rats to the FBI, recruit 6 more guys, decide to act again, etc, etc.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @27 year old

    edit- please spare us the tactical porn about how easy it would be for 6 rednecks with deer rifles to blah blah blah. what i want to hear you explain is how you expect these 6 guys to meet, decide to act, ensure none of them rats to the FBI, recruit 6 more guys, decide to act again, etc, etc."

    And why do you want to hear this? Do you work for the FBI? The SPLC? Why should anyone tell you jack?

    Replies: @27 year old

    , @Jeff77450
    @27 year old

    Well said and sadly I must agree.

  28. @Anonymous
    A ridiculously easy one to answer.

    Just look at the ongoing situation in that three-ring circus which is the EU, most notably the slapstick antics happening right now in Lesbos, Calais, Macedonia, Lampedusa, Sweden and last but not least, Germany which confidently expects 800,000 'migrants' or 1% of the entire German population to enter this year alone.

    My point is that here, ongoing and eye-witnessed via the magic of telecommunications we can get the merest taste hint of what 'open borders' actually means in practice, rather than the mass of verbiage obfuscation which is standard fare for today's 'economists'.
    Here, we have a limited 'rationed' type of 'open borders' regime, in which the claim in being Syrian, Afghan' Iraqi, even Pakistani, is the crucial binding condition. Thus under this limiting condition, 'migrants' are effectively whittled down from the 'optimum'.

    Rest assured, that the 'optimum' for Germany, at least, is more like 8,000,000 per anuum - and exponentially rising - than 800,000.

    Replies: @Big Bill

    The Osties were saved from the German bloodguilt thing until the wall fell. They don’t have that reflexive “we are all evil Jew-killers” thing the way West Germans do. And they are starting to break free. The German government is meeting stiff resistance in the East to refugee-dumping as I write. Regular Germans are demonstrating and rioting in the East. I expect it is going to speed.

    One nice thing: the black hoodie Antifa Marxists seem to have left the East German battlefield.

  29. @Reg Cæsar
    @SFG

    Brazil.

    Poorer and more crowded, with really huge slums.

     

    Ah, but immigration improved Brazil. Because it was done right.

    They get the right people from the right places, with the right attitudes. So do we, but since 1965 they've been swamped by the wrong people from the wrong places, with the wrong attitudes.

    Brazil is like the US South until recently-- racially mixed and divided, but still culturally coherent.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @SFG

    Brazil is notable for the fairly recent growth in ‘Pentecostal’ Protestantism, it’s history under popular rule is almost as recent. For most of its history it was an authoritarian state of some stripe.

    I foresee a split

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Brazilian_States_by_Race.svg

  30. Have these people not read Snow Crash?

    • Replies: @Alice
    @FD

    And after it, Anathem ;)

    There hasn't been an idea the 21st c had that Neal Stephenson didn't have first.

    , @Brutusale
    @FD

    Or this, which predated Snow Crash by a few years.

    http://www.amazon.com/Little-Heroes-Norman-Spinrad/dp/1490399429

    Zonies and people kibble.

    Replies: @Sunbeam

  31. e says:

    Gee. How hard is it to see that Mexico/Central America has simply been transported to CA, AZ. NM, TX, and the like?

    I suggest these silly intellectuals spend a month or two traveling CA, but they must stay in the LA Basin and then travel up the Central Valley, Bakersfield to north of Sacramento, not confine themselves to the affluent Coastal communities. Look at the APIs of all the schools in that area as well, than at the populations of said schools.

    No, generations out not much has changed. Mexicans and Central Americans are still not engineers and mathematicians and doctors.

    Somalians in Minnesota? Are these silly people going to argue that the violence they enjoy will disappear in two or three generations?

  32. @SFG
    @Harry Baldwin

    Most of the connected Jews (i.e. the ones who can get you into the good jobs, etc.) know each other from summer camp, high school, etc. In that it's much like the old WASP elite, but with bigger noses.

    Think about it: you could convert to Episcopalianism, sure, but you haven't been to Groton.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Anonymous

    I don’t know, I’ve been taken for a Jew several times in my career just because my name is German and I don’t look distinctly non-Jewish. It may have done me some good. My father, who was in academia, told me the same thing.

    A Jewish executive I had worked with for years at an ad agency was shocked when she heard I was going to be at work on Yom Kippur. “What kind of Jew are you?” she asked.

    “A Catholic one?” I answered.

    • Replies: @manton
    @Harry Baldwin

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by "Are you Jewish?" This is Park Ave the 50s, so lots of high-achieving, assimilated, non-religious Wall Street Jews there working in hedge funds, PE houses, boutique investment banks and the like. The point, I gather, is to see if they can "reconvert" the ethnically Jewish but non-religious back into the faith. However, they are only interested if you are actually ethnically Jewish. All they have to go on is how you look. Profiling! I call it "plausible Jew." If you look plausibly Jewish, they will approach. I am 75% Italian and 100% Mediterranean and I get the question every single time.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sunbeam, @Fun with aluminum, @Harry Baldwin

    , @fnn
    @Harry Baldwin

    The late Stan Freberg (a Swedish Lutheran) told of similar experiences during his early show business career.

    , @SFG
    @Harry Baldwin

    Could be right. Didn't think the accidental thing could pay off, but I guess it can.

    The interesting thing for many of the commenters here is, I imagine, how do you go about faking it? I'm honestly not sure.

    Replies: @Glaivester

    , @Anon
    @Harry Baldwin

    I bet if you asked 100 Jews in the NYC MSA if Trump was Jewish, more than half would say yes. They assume any NYer that pushy and rich must be.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  33. @International Jew
    Reading some of what Cowan linked to, I realize these guys think open borders will bring the Libertarian millenium closer. Their logic is that a US of a billion brown people will render traditional values like nondiscrimination and one-man-one-vote so obviously untenable that we'll all go live in gated enclaves protected by private police patrolling private streets walked by voucher-bearing schoolchildren.

    Gaaa!

    To quote just one, and not even particularly egregious, example of their thinking:


    We would see some modern latifundia, worked not by slaves this time but by voluntary immigrants...working for pay rates that would strike native-born Americans as a form of slave labor.
     
    It's weird to read the details of a horrifying future, and realize the writer is presenting it as a good thing!

    Replies: @Clyde, @Anonymous

    Reading some of what Cowan linked to, I realize these guys think open borders will bring the Libertarian millenium closer.

    Just think of Tyler Cowan in the Aspergers-autism spectrum. Others have made this comment and it helped me understand the idiocy of this high IQ person and others like him. Instead of someone who can teach functional real world economics to young skulls full of mush we have this guy making at least $200,000 per year when you factor in his outside money making activities.
    Are there any well known university economists decrying our awful free trade deals? And that open borders hurts the US middle class? None that I can think of, instead the universities are full of Cowan clones

  34. “How would America evolve under open borders?”

    Wouldn’t it be like all living together in one big very obnoxious airport? Doesn’t everybody want to live in the Los Vegas or LA airport? Just wait for the announcements to tell you what to do.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @anonymous


    Wouldn’t it be like all living together in one big very obnoxious airport?
     
    A big international airport lounge was the first analogy I came up with when I began to think seriously about race and immigration. Sure, it's easy to "tolerate" the people there (probably because you know you're never going to see them again), but surely there's no genuine appreciation taking place. What idiot would think that's a model for a country to follow?

    I really thought this analogy would floor people. I've been bitterly disappointed to discover that it doesn't. I mean, people can see the sense in it, but I think they then realize what the implications are and that frightens them, so their brains start producing desperate excuses about why it'll all work out okay anyway.
    , @Mr. Anon
    @anonymous

    Very good point. First world countries are becoming a lot like airports: you're surrounded by a lot of strange foreigners you neither know nor like, you have to spend a lot of money to avoid the diversity, you are exposed to a wide variety of diseases, and you are subject to an arbitrary, intrusive, and useless security regime.

    , @Jeff77450
    @anonymous

    Well said.

  35. How Would America Devolve Further Under Open Borders?

  36. America seems destined to become Brazil with an Asian Overclass.

  37. @Harry Baldwin
    @SFG

    I don't know, I've been taken for a Jew several times in my career just because my name is German and I don't look distinctly non-Jewish. It may have done me some good. My father, who was in academia, told me the same thing.

    A Jewish executive I had worked with for years at an ad agency was shocked when she heard I was going to be at work on Yom Kippur. "What kind of Jew are you?" she asked.

    "A Catholic one?" I answered.

    Replies: @manton, @fnn, @SFG, @Anon

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by “Are you Jewish?” This is Park Ave the 50s, so lots of high-achieving, assimilated, non-religious Wall Street Jews there working in hedge funds, PE houses, boutique investment banks and the like. The point, I gather, is to see if they can “reconvert” the ethnically Jewish but non-religious back into the faith. However, they are only interested if you are actually ethnically Jewish. All they have to go on is how you look. Profiling! I call it “plausible Jew.” If you look plausibly Jewish, they will approach. I am 75% Italian and 100% Mediterranean and I get the question every single time.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @manton

    The ultra-Orthodox (I think they're mostly Lubavitcher chasidim) also try this stunt on some college campuses in the Northeast. Occasionally, it works, though I never took the bait.

    , @Sunbeam
    @manton

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by “Are you Jewish?”

    That's because they avoid talking to strange women right? How do they go about recruiting women? And how well does it work for either sex?

    I'd imagine it to be a very hard sell to a secular or liberal Jewish woman who didn't have pre-existing family members or friends already in the movement.

    , @Fun with aluminum
    @manton

    I lived in Israel for a couple of years, though I am not myself Jewish. Some of the orthodox over there over there do this too; I got asked once. The reason for the profiling is that Jews are forbidden to proselytize, so their 'evangelicals' can only attempt to convince lapsed Jews to get closer to god; they can't attempt to convert anyone. (It actually is possible to convert, but the motivation has to come entirely from you, not from any sort of arm-twisting.)

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @manton

    Shortly after 9/11/01, as I approached Grand Central Terminal, there was a crazy lady in front handing out hand-written, mimeographed tracts. (This activity of schizophrenics was common in the 1970s and I hadn't recalled seeing it in years.) As I approached she asked if I was Catholic--that was evidently a prerequisite for receiving her tract. I wanted one, so I said yes. She looked at me skeptically. I said, "C'mon, I'm a Catholic. Old school. Pax vobiscum. Et cum spiritu tuo. Per omnia saecula saeculorum. Gloria in excelsis Deo."

    She backed off in terror, tightly clutching her tracts.

  38. The current trend of immigration will likely turn American into Brazil. Which will suck, but be mostly tolerable. Crime and corruption will increase. American corruption has been steadily increasing for many years now.

    Big unknown is African immigration. African population is exploding. Latin American population is near replacement level except for a couple tiny places like Guatemala. But Africa is adding billions of ppl, and they are gonna try to get out of Africa anyway they possibly can.

  39. If America says on current projections it will suck, but be tolerable as a Brazil with better institutions and a better Overclass. Probably be run by alternating Socialists and Right-wing Strong Men. Surveillance Tech will keep improving to keep crime at high, but tolerable levels.

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Black Crime is high but tolerable at 13% of the population. When they get near majority they typically ruin a city.

    The African Population Bomb is a huge unknown in the near-future. Where will they go? Europe? America? Can they be convinced to stay in Africa?

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    @Chang

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Sailer has discussed this several times. But aside from sites like this, has it ever been discussed by anyone? The elites are more capable than most of understanding what graphs mean. So what kind of discussions happens behind closed doors? Do they toe the ideology line?

    To me it seems like common sense. If you have surplus population in one place that essentially doesn't have much to do, or made the poor choice not to be born in a connected family... of course they go somewhere else if they perceive that to be a better situation and they are allowed to.

    Things like oceans used to be barriers. But now unless unless you actively stop them, nothing is a barrier. Obviously it helps to have people that went ahead and established communities.

    But what stops it other than controlling Immigration, and in the end with force whether by border guards, or police and deportation? I think a fence would work with Mexico, but if you aren't going to actively enforce things it will be as useless as some pundits claim.

    But again what stops this sort of thing? I'd imagine that if Australia said tomorrow that they would allow unlimited immigration from China, they could double their population in a year. My take is that you could easily find 20 or 25 million Chinese that would go there cold out of their 1.3 billion plus people. And it's actually easier than that, since there is some Chinese presence there already, and it's not like China isn't close as things work now.

    And the same story with the US. I'm not from California, but from reading this site, if things don't change we will have a Mexican/Chinese West Coast with the Chinese playing the same role they did in lots of southeast Asia countries. Heck we could probably get millions of Chinese trying to buy plane tickets at the same time if we rubberstamped visas for them.

    But we talk about things like this all the time here. All these guys, let's just lump them all together and call them "elites" no matter the party or ideology, they have to know all this.

    So what is the end game? I've always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn't exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing. Or you think that all the new immigrants are just standard issue white people behaviorally, just new faces, so things will be as they always were.

    So do they just think it will never come to that? They totally believe their own arguments at face value with no cynicism? What?

    Replies: @Anon, @ben tillman, @Dew, @n/a

    , @Stan D Mute
    @Chang


    the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl.
     
    This will be the story of the 21st Century. 4 billion Africans forecast by 2100AD. Europe will be wiped out. Gone. Eastern Europe may resist, but France, Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Spain, Greece, all will be inundated and destroyed. The Americas may survive due to the logistics of moving hundreds of millions of low IQ feral breeders across the Atlantic, but I'm confident every effort will be made to "save" these "refugees" from their own incompetence and out of control reproduction. They will, like a tsunami, overwhelm and destroy everything in their path.

    The real question is where and how will it be stopped. After consuming and destroying Europe, they will try to turn east. Will Russia do what is necessary to stop them? Will India? I have no doubt that China would do whatever was necessary to ensure its survival, but I can envision a world consisting only of East Asians and Africans.

    Replies: @Priss Factor, @Priss Factor, @fnn

    , @Wilkey
    @Chang

    We don't have to "convince" them to stay in Africa. We just have to keep them out of our countries By Any Means Necessary.

    And black social ills can kill a city long before blacks reach a majority of the population.

  40. @Harry Baldwin
    @SFG

    I don't know, I've been taken for a Jew several times in my career just because my name is German and I don't look distinctly non-Jewish. It may have done me some good. My father, who was in academia, told me the same thing.

    A Jewish executive I had worked with for years at an ad agency was shocked when she heard I was going to be at work on Yom Kippur. "What kind of Jew are you?" she asked.

    "A Catholic one?" I answered.

    Replies: @manton, @fnn, @SFG, @Anon

    The late Stan Freberg (a Swedish Lutheran) told of similar experiences during his early show business career.

  41. You don’t take in immigrants when you need to create jobs.
    You take them in when you have jobs that need to be filled.

    In the West, it’s unstated but understood that:
    1) The big boys want more Mexicans to undercut blue-collar workers and more Indians and Chinese to undercut white collar workers. Immigrants tend to work for less and tend to be very docile.
    2) This is bad for native workers who are being displaced and, in the short run, good for the profits of the big boys. As for the immigrants, as far as they are concerned (and they’ll tell you as much if you ask them), even though Americans are dumb etc etc things are somehow real nice in America and if you open the borders for long enough half of America would become Hindoo-Chinese, and the other half Mexican.
    3) The various libertarian brainwashing outfits produce the propaganda justifying the big boys’ greed. Thus, “immigration produces jobs”, “cutting your wages is good for you”, “free trade (=vicious undercutting everywhere) is good for you”, etc etc.
    4) The self-hating lunatics in the academia and the media tell you that even though people who hate homosexuals and laugh at women’s rights are scum, immigrants who hate homosexuals and laugh at women’s rights are holy and saintly beings “of color.”

    • Agree: Travis
  42. A new field for Rachel Dolezals and Shaun Kings,
    and a song that needs new lyrics:

    (And “Jew” has more rhymes than “girl”.)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Most Jews don't enjoy being Jewish and would rather be something else. Only observant/Orthodox Jews are a major exception.

  43. At 1:00 AM today, all but one of the NYT front page items was left-wing propaganda. Under an open borders regime, every newspaper every day could look like this screenshot of this morning’s NYT front page (I added a color key identifying left-wing themes).

  44. Cowan just linked to an article by author Smith. Cowan didn’t ask anything.

    • Replies: @HEL
    @Anonymous


    Cowan just linked to an article by author Smith. Cowan didn’t ask anything.
     
    Cowen didn't link to an article. He actually pressed a number of buttons on his keyboard.
  45. @grey enlightenment2
    I've read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn't.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman, @AnAnon, @iSteveFan, @Anonymous

    As population density goes up, consumption goes up, but that consumption is more efficient. the result is a massive amount of surplus labor. If you look at which countries America runs a trade deficit with for example, Nations that have a greater population density than us will run surpluses with us, and nations with a lower population density than us run deficits with us.

    It will create a few more jobs, for a lot more people to fill.

  46. @Reg Cæsar
    @SFG

    Brazil.

    Poorer and more crowded, with really huge slums.

     

    Ah, but immigration improved Brazil. Because it was done right.

    They get the right people from the right places, with the right attitudes. So do we, but since 1965 they've been swamped by the wrong people from the wrong places, with the wrong attitudes.

    Brazil is like the US South until recently-- racially mixed and divided, but still culturally coherent.

    Replies: @Maj. Kong, @SFG

    I think you’re being sarcastic–Brazil is poorer than the US, and even more plagued by crime. We don’t want to be like them–right?

  47. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew
    Reading some of what Cowan linked to, I realize these guys think open borders will bring the Libertarian millenium closer. Their logic is that a US of a billion brown people will render traditional values like nondiscrimination and one-man-one-vote so obviously untenable that we'll all go live in gated enclaves protected by private police patrolling private streets walked by voucher-bearing schoolchildren.

    Gaaa!

    To quote just one, and not even particularly egregious, example of their thinking:


    We would see some modern latifundia, worked not by slaves this time but by voluntary immigrants...working for pay rates that would strike native-born Americans as a form of slave labor.
     
    It's weird to read the details of a horrifying future, and realize the writer is presenting it as a good thing!

    Replies: @Clyde, @Anonymous

    Nathan Smith is arguing all is lost anyway so why not just jettison pretensions. One could make the same argument at any point in our history.

    The adult view is that all Republics have a limited lifespan. Angry children fantasize about flushing the world down the toilet.

    After Rome fell there were many great societies in Italy. Modern Italy is a pretty great place to live.

    We don’t live in the authentic America obviously. The Founders would’ve hanged FDR for confiscating gold. Wilson for creating the Fed etc etc etc. It is what it is.

    Read the final section:

    I’m not so fond of democracy that my loyalty to a regime would depend very greatly on its democratic character, but I am very, very fond of telling the truth, and I can have no respect for, and no loyalty to, judges who, in decreeing gay marriage, pretend that they’re interpreting the Constitution. Modern constitutional law is a lot like the Catholic Church’s theology of indulgences in the 15th and early 16th centuries. It makes very little sense, and every critical thinker more or less feels that it’s a disgraceful travesty, but people are afraid to challenge it as aggressively as reason demands, because it underpins the order of society. Reams and libraries are dedicated to rationalizing it, precisely because it’s rationally indefensible, yet is a crucial currency of power. And yes, I’d like to see modern constitutional law immolated in a kind of Lutheran Reformation, and would gladly pay a high price in chaos to see the dragon slain. Thanks to my low opinion of the US constitutional regime as it currently exists is one reason, I can contemplate with very little distress the immigration of a billion or so people from all over the world, unschooled in the peculiar mythology of early 21st-century American democracy and its ever-more-irrational cult of equality.

    • Replies: @IA
    @Anonymous


    Angry children fantasize about flushing the world down the toilet.
     
    So you or Cowen are saying invite a billion Muslims and blacks into European lands?
  48. One of the reasons that Nathan Smith is insouciant about how open borders would transform America’s political culture and institutions is that he loathes the substantive due process doctrine that the Supreme Court has relied on to create a right to abortion and gay marriage. He says our current form of government is a judicial oligarchy, and he’d like to see modern constitutional law immolated.

    http://openborders.info/blog/billion-immigrants-change-american-polity/

    “Later, as the rising imperial judiciary also became a key patron of the Sexual Revolution, the courts’ reasoning became so disgracefully inept that the possibility that the courts sincerely think they are doing anything other than arbitrarily legislating from the bench is hard to take seriously. Roe v. Wade was a brazen attack on democracy, and while it’s hard to say when the Rubicon was definitely crossed, in the wake of the Obergefell decree, I agree with Justice Scalia that “my Ruler, and the Ruler of 320 million Americans coast-to-coast, is a majority of the nine lawyers on the Supreme Court.” A country whose Constitution can suddenly, poof!, take on a new meaning that no one can seriously doubt would have amazed and disgusted its authors, and thereby override many democratically-passed laws and rob the people of the ability to legislate according to the majority will on an absolutely crucial social question, is not aptly described as a democracy. It might be best described as a judicial oligarchy in which elected elements play the chief administrative and a subordinate legislative role.”

  49. @Harry Baldwin
    @SFG

    I don't know, I've been taken for a Jew several times in my career just because my name is German and I don't look distinctly non-Jewish. It may have done me some good. My father, who was in academia, told me the same thing.

    A Jewish executive I had worked with for years at an ad agency was shocked when she heard I was going to be at work on Yom Kippur. "What kind of Jew are you?" she asked.

    "A Catholic one?" I answered.

    Replies: @manton, @fnn, @SFG, @Anon

    Could be right. Didn’t think the accidental thing could pay off, but I guess it can.

    The interesting thing for many of the commenters here is, I imagine, how do you go about faking it? I’m honestly not sure.

    • Replies: @Glaivester
    @SFG


    The interesting thing for many of the commenters here is, I imagine, how do you go about faking it? I’m honestly not sure.
     
    I'd probably do a (bad) Jackie Mason impression.
  50. I’m Brazilian and Brazil is a extremely dysfunctional country, high crime, high corruption, low trust society, in fact is a high distrust society.

  51. My years in retail taught me something very important: That which you give away for free eventually stops being of value, at some point. So it goes with citizenship or unlimited free access to the United States.

  52. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I knew a number of very “aggreived” people who went into law in the late 60s and 70s. Some of these people were probably successful in obtaining positions where they could act.

    It’s a problem that these people have the full force of law behind them and can often only be indirectly challenged. A society of law with a partially “aggreived”
    legal profession…

  53. Libertarians with Tenure are almost always in favor of flooding the market with cheap labor.
    Not for professors, of course. Not their job. Just yours.

  54. @SFG
    @Harry Baldwin

    Most of the connected Jews (i.e. the ones who can get you into the good jobs, etc.) know each other from summer camp, high school, etc. In that it's much like the old WASP elite, but with bigger noses.

    Think about it: you could convert to Episcopalianism, sure, but you haven't been to Groton.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @Anonymous

    I’ve kind of been thinking that it might be funny for someone to write “The Jewish Handbook”, a la “The Preppy Handbook” from 1980. ; )

  55. @manton
    @Harry Baldwin

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by "Are you Jewish?" This is Park Ave the 50s, so lots of high-achieving, assimilated, non-religious Wall Street Jews there working in hedge funds, PE houses, boutique investment banks and the like. The point, I gather, is to see if they can "reconvert" the ethnically Jewish but non-religious back into the faith. However, they are only interested if you are actually ethnically Jewish. All they have to go on is how you look. Profiling! I call it "plausible Jew." If you look plausibly Jewish, they will approach. I am 75% Italian and 100% Mediterranean and I get the question every single time.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sunbeam, @Fun with aluminum, @Harry Baldwin

    The ultra-Orthodox (I think they’re mostly Lubavitcher chasidim) also try this stunt on some college campuses in the Northeast. Occasionally, it works, though I never took the bait.

  56. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    A new field for Rachel Dolezals and Shaun Kings,
    and a song that needs new lyrics:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyOsi5rSnFg
    (And "Jew" has more rhymes than "girl".)

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Most Jews don’t enjoy being Jewish and would rather be something else. Only observant/Orthodox Jews are a major exception.

  57. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    If entire populations of third-world countries are determined to move to first-world countries for the economic benefit, it creates a moral justification for first-world nations to go and take over those third-world countries and run them for the benefit of those third-world people.

    It would be a new wave of neo-colonialism. The left would hate it, but seriously, if first-world taxpayers are footing the bill–indirectly, which we certainly are–for all the outrageous third-world corruption and violence, then it entirely justifies running the third-world and getting rid of their governments, installing the rule of law, getting rid of bribery, and doing all those other things like providing free birth control so the third-worlders don’t overrun the entire planet and create mass famines and an ugly Malthusian breakdown everywhere.

    The next half of this century isn’t going to be pretty unless neo-colonialism happens. The math of third world breeding, lack of jobs, and the desire to emigrate to better-run countries is cold, hard, and implacable. We’re going to be overrun by numbers that make today’s immigration levels look tiny and have our standard of living destroyed when our economic systems buckle under the weight and collapse.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    @Anon

    "If entire populations of third-world countries are determined to move to first-world countries for the economic benefit, it creates a moral justification for first-world nations to go and take over those third-world countries and run them for the benefit of those third-world people."

    How is it that white folks went to places like Australia and North America where there was no economy to speak of and turned them into great economies, but so many non-white folks cannot do anything with their own nations and move to the West to leech off whites.

    Whites turn nothing into something, hordes of non-whites want something for nothing.

    , @silviosilver
    @Anon


    The math of third world breeding, lack of jobs, and the desire to emigrate to better-run countries is cold, hard, and implacable.
     
    It's not really a problem of generalized third world breeding. It's a problem of specifically black African overbreeding. Aside from black Africa and a couple of Arab countries, the rest of the world is either below, at, or fast converging towards replacement fertility.

    Now, black Africa is and has been reducing its fertility, but in comparison to other countries that transitioned from high fertility to low fertility, it's doing it painfully slowly. At this point, a doubling of their population is baked into the cake, and a tripling is very, very likely. But perhaps, if we're lucky, we can avoid a quadrupling. Implication: big trouble up ahead.

    Replies: @5371

  58. @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    You can identify as a Jew all you want, but the Jews will identify you otherwise….

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @pyrrhus


    You can identify as a Jew all you want, but the Jews will identify you otherwise….
     
    It's not all that difficult to fake being Jewish. I've done it in real life on numerous occasions and never been called out. It's certainly possible that people I think I've fooled in fact doubt me behind my back, but if - to the extent that I am able to tell - they treat me as though they believe me then what does it really matter?

    Of course, it helps greatly to be able to visually pass as a Jew (which I can in the sense that no one would think "nah, no way could you be Jewish," but not in the sense of "well duh, what else could you be") and to be familiar with typical Jewish social attitudes (which I am, both from what I've learned online and because southern Europeans often tend to see things the same way as Jews anyway).
  59. @FD
    Have these people not read Snow Crash?

    Replies: @Alice, @Brutusale

    And after it, Anathem 😉

    There hasn’t been an idea the 21st c had that Neal Stephenson didn’t have first.

  60. With Open Borders in the US, rival powers such as Russia or China could take cargo ships to the coast of Africa, India, Bangladesh, wherever, and load up with the huddled masses of the Third World, and then deposit their human cargo at the nearest US port. If they hustled, these countries could maybe pump 50-100 million Third Worlders a year in the US, not the mention the other immigrants from the Americas that would make the trip on their own. If Europe was smart they would encourage their Muslims populations to move to the US as well.

    We would get to Mad Max territory pretty quickly.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    @Shine a Light

    "With Open Borders in the US, rival powers such as Russia or China could take cargo ships to the coast of Africa, India, Bangladesh, wherever, and load up with the huddled masses of the Third World, and then deposit their human cargo at the nearest US port."

    ROTFL. Camp of Saints on steroids.

  61. @manton
    @Harry Baldwin

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by "Are you Jewish?" This is Park Ave the 50s, so lots of high-achieving, assimilated, non-religious Wall Street Jews there working in hedge funds, PE houses, boutique investment banks and the like. The point, I gather, is to see if they can "reconvert" the ethnically Jewish but non-religious back into the faith. However, they are only interested if you are actually ethnically Jewish. All they have to go on is how you look. Profiling! I call it "plausible Jew." If you look plausibly Jewish, they will approach. I am 75% Italian and 100% Mediterranean and I get the question every single time.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sunbeam, @Fun with aluminum, @Harry Baldwin

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by “Are you Jewish?”

    That’s because they avoid talking to strange women right? How do they go about recruiting women? And how well does it work for either sex?

    I’d imagine it to be a very hard sell to a secular or liberal Jewish woman who didn’t have pre-existing family members or friends already in the movement.

  62. @Harry Baldwin
    @Harry Baldwin

    BTW, that's what Saul Goodman did: "My real name's McGill. The Jew thing I just do for the homeboys. They all want a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak."

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “BTW, that’s what Saul Goodman did: “My real name’s McGill. The Jew thing I just do for the homeboys. They all want a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak.”

    I didn’t know there is a huge Homeboy population in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Unless he is talking about Mexican thugs when referring to Homeboys and not African American thugs.

    From what I gather Albuquerque is one of the few big cities in the U.S that has zero Black neighborhoods because the percentage of Blacks there is so low. Another big American city that shares this uniqueness is San Jose, California. There are no Black neighborhoods there either. Notice that both of these big cities are located in the Western part of the country. Big cities with no Black neighborhoods are non existent in the Midwest, the Northeast, and the Southeast.

  63. @SFG
    @Harry Baldwin

    Could be right. Didn't think the accidental thing could pay off, but I guess it can.

    The interesting thing for many of the commenters here is, I imagine, how do you go about faking it? I'm honestly not sure.

    Replies: @Glaivester

    The interesting thing for many of the commenters here is, I imagine, how do you go about faking it? I’m honestly not sure.

    I’d probably do a (bad) Jackie Mason impression.

  64. iSteveFan says:
    @grey enlightenment2
    I've read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn't.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman, @AnAnon, @iSteveFan, @Anonymous

    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.

    Let’s be clear. Those folks are not discussing immigration. They are discussing mass immigration. Immigration is something that is hardly noticeable at times. It brings in a select amount of folks to fill certain niche gaps and to compensate for whatever emigration might take place.

    Mass immigration is completely different as it imports groups in large enough numbers so as to alter the population makeup of a nation which leads to changes in its culture and values. So assuming your question is in regards to mass immigration, just ask yourself the following. Where else, besides insanely crazy white nations, is it being practiced? And if mass immigration is the key to job growth and the road to riches, why is it Mexico and a host of other nations are not preventing their peasants from leaving, and trying to draw in as many of their neighbors as possible? I mean Mexico could become a rich economic super power if they just kept their peasants from leaving, and invited all of Central America into Mexico.

    But they are not doing that. No one is doing that except the crazy white nations. And the crazy white nations seem to be on a decline when it comes to quality of life issues and such.

    Also, use the NE Asians as a barometer. They have no problem adopting Western ideas such as high tech, classical music, and our education system. But they don’t seem to want to touch mass immigration at all. That should tell you something.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @iSteveFan

    "Also, use the NE Asians as a barometer. They have no problem adopting Western ideas such as high tech, classical music, and our education system. But they don’t seem to want to touch mass immigration at all. That should tell you something."

    Michelle Malkin who is Filipina is opposes mass 3rd world immigration/amnesty/open borders. Because of she is often called a wannabe White by the Left, a coconut, a twinkie, the White man's bitch, and an Asian Aunt Jemima.

    , @Wilkey
    @iSteveFan

    Has Japan ever had an attack by an Islamic terrorist? Has South Korea? Taiwan?

    Replies: @Mark Green

  65. @Chang
    If America says on current projections it will suck, but be tolerable as a Brazil with better institutions and a better Overclass. Probably be run by alternating Socialists and Right-wing Strong Men. Surveillance Tech will keep improving to keep crime at high, but tolerable levels.

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb - then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Black Crime is high but tolerable at 13% of the population. When they get near majority they typically ruin a city.

    The African Population Bomb is a huge unknown in the near-future. Where will they go? Europe? America? Can they be convinced to stay in Africa?

    Replies: @Sunbeam, @Stan D Mute, @Wilkey

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Sailer has discussed this several times. But aside from sites like this, has it ever been discussed by anyone? The elites are more capable than most of understanding what graphs mean. So what kind of discussions happens behind closed doors? Do they toe the ideology line?

    To me it seems like common sense. If you have surplus population in one place that essentially doesn’t have much to do, or made the poor choice not to be born in a connected family… of course they go somewhere else if they perceive that to be a better situation and they are allowed to.

    Things like oceans used to be barriers. But now unless unless you actively stop them, nothing is a barrier. Obviously it helps to have people that went ahead and established communities.

    But what stops it other than controlling Immigration, and in the end with force whether by border guards, or police and deportation? I think a fence would work with Mexico, but if you aren’t going to actively enforce things it will be as useless as some pundits claim.

    But again what stops this sort of thing? I’d imagine that if Australia said tomorrow that they would allow unlimited immigration from China, they could double their population in a year. My take is that you could easily find 20 or 25 million Chinese that would go there cold out of their 1.3 billion plus people. And it’s actually easier than that, since there is some Chinese presence there already, and it’s not like China isn’t close as things work now.

    And the same story with the US. I’m not from California, but from reading this site, if things don’t change we will have a Mexican/Chinese West Coast with the Chinese playing the same role they did in lots of southeast Asia countries. Heck we could probably get millions of Chinese trying to buy plane tickets at the same time if we rubberstamped visas for them.

    But we talk about things like this all the time here. All these guys, let’s just lump them all together and call them “elites” no matter the party or ideology, they have to know all this.

    So what is the end game? I’ve always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn’t exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing. Or you think that all the new immigrants are just standard issue white people behaviorally, just new faces, so things will be as they always were.

    So do they just think it will never come to that? They totally believe their own arguments at face value with no cynicism? What?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Sunbeam

    My FIL, a Queens-horn Jew with a decidedly vocal anti-minority streak, made his money in a cash-only home goods business in the ghetto. He's out of it now. My wife (his step-daughter) and I saw him recently and told him of the impending Fair Housing regulations coming from HUD to forcibly integrate white neighborhoods. After arguing that we were crazy, he finally relented and said, "well, I don't really care, it doesn't effect me."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @ben tillman
    @Sunbeam


    So what is the end game? I’ve always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn’t exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous.
     
    It's simple to state such an argument, but it's even easier to point out that the future USA you envision is much like the present Mexico or Brazil, which were constructed largely by Jews. Why do you presume to know better than they what is good for them?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Dew
    @Sunbeam

    There are several measures that can be made to weaken the African population bomb. Whoever the elites are, they have to power to do this.

    1.) Abortion
    2.) Sterilization
    3.) Feminism
    4.) Promotion of anti-traditional family values (basically SWPL "values" that lower birthrates)
    5.) Encouraging no more than two children per couple.

    Also if we going to keep bringing immigrants why not try to exclude the men at least? They are ones committing most of the atrocities both in their homelands and in their new areas. Seriously, many of those guys on the boats sure as hell aren't refugees. They are opportunists.

    Why not only bring in women and children, like how Uruguay did with their Syrian immigrants? Much easier to handle.

    https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/uruguay-wants-only-women-and-children-syrian-refugees-men-are-too-violent/

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Anonymous

    , @n/a
    @Sunbeam

    "So what is the end game? I’ve always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn’t exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing."

    Earl Raab, writing in 1995, on the Jewish role in promoting non-White immigration:


    An increasing ethnic heterogeneity, as a result of immigration, has made it even more difficult for a political party or mass movement of bigotry to develop. … The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country. We [Jews] have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to bigotry for about half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but the heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it irreversible—and makes our constitutional constraints against bigotry more practical than ever (see here, p. 246)
     
    www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/07/joe-klein-immigration-will-save-the-u-s-from-white-racism/

    Also, don't underestimate the power of spite.

    Replies: @SFG

  66. @Chang
    If America says on current projections it will suck, but be tolerable as a Brazil with better institutions and a better Overclass. Probably be run by alternating Socialists and Right-wing Strong Men. Surveillance Tech will keep improving to keep crime at high, but tolerable levels.

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb - then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Black Crime is high but tolerable at 13% of the population. When they get near majority they typically ruin a city.

    The African Population Bomb is a huge unknown in the near-future. Where will they go? Europe? America? Can they be convinced to stay in Africa?

    Replies: @Sunbeam, @Stan D Mute, @Wilkey

    the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl.

    This will be the story of the 21st Century. 4 billion Africans forecast by 2100AD. Europe will be wiped out. Gone. Eastern Europe may resist, but France, Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Spain, Greece, all will be inundated and destroyed. The Americas may survive due to the logistics of moving hundreds of millions of low IQ feral breeders across the Atlantic, but I’m confident every effort will be made to “save” these “refugees” from their own incompetence and out of control reproduction. They will, like a tsunami, overwhelm and destroy everything in their path.

    The real question is where and how will it be stopped. After consuming and destroying Europe, they will try to turn east. Will Russia do what is necessary to stop them? Will India? I have no doubt that China would do whatever was necessary to ensure its survival, but I can envision a world consisting only of East Asians and Africans.

    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    @Stan D Mute

    "I have no doubt that China would do whatever was necessary to ensure its survival, but I can envision a world consisting only of East Asians and Africans."

    Peter Frost says China has a million Negroes already.

    The problem of having Negroes is this. They get more media coverage.

    If a nation mistreats people X, who the hell cares?

    But Jews, Negroes, and homos get special treatment.

    So, if Chinese beat on Tibetans or Uighurs, there will be some noise, but not much. But if they mistreat Negroes, there will be a big brouhaha in the West. Of course, if any nation mistreats Jews, it is in big big trouble.
    So, nations without Negroes and Jews are blessed.

    Suppose a nation has a population X that is really troublesome. Suppose the nation decides to kick the ass of population X. The Western media(that is the world media) and Western governments(that rule the world) won't give a shit. It's like no one cares about what Pakistan is doing to Pashtuns or what Turkey is doing to Kurds.

    But if a nation has blacks and Jews, no matter how badly blacks or Jews act, they have to be treated with kid gloves the nation will be targeted for condemnation by global media and the West.

    This is why homos are useful for the West to guilt-trip nations. Many nations don't have Jews or blacks, but they all have homos, and so every nation can conceivably be attacked for its 'homophobia'.

    Anyway, if you wanna kick some minority ass for bad behavior, pray the minority is not Jews or blacks. The world won't give a shit.

    , @Priss Factor
    @Stan D Mute

    "The real question is where and how will it be stopped. After consuming and destroying Europe, they will try to turn east. Will Russia do what is necessary to stop them?"

    I think we have to consider the white male vs white female attitude on this.

    While all whites do feel some degree of trepidation and even fear about blacks, I think white men and white women regard this differently. White women are now into hip hop and jungle fever and all that. So, the horny side of them might not resist the massive tide of Negro-ness. They might see it as more sexual opportunity to 'go black'.
    White women especially feel this way since white males have been so wussified.

    Naturally, white males, who can easily be beaten and whupped by Negroes, should defend their sexual rights by uniting and fighting for their race, but entire generations of white males have been castrated into 'white boys' weaned on (1) cult of 'white guilt' (2) evil of 'racism' (3) hipness of black sports domination(a form of public cuckold fest) (4) endless readings of TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD (5) year after year of movies like DJANGO UNCHAINED and 12 YRS A SLAVE (6) interracist sexual culture, even propaganda (7) black music domination in the club scene.

    White men must go into Ethan Mode of THE SEARCHERS. White wombs for white seeds. It must be primal. It must be powerful. It must be angry. No more pussyfooting about abstract ideas. Only the barbarian forthrightness and warrior soul can save the West now. And only by showing that white men can unite and fight will white women begin to have respect for white men again. Sure, initially white women will denounce angry white men as 'racist' and 'reactionary' and 'evil', but when white men whup ass and win, they will have the respect of their women. It's the psychology of womanhood to go with winners no matter what.

    A real determines what is necessary and true. He strives to win. Once he wins, he has the women.

    White women flock to black athletes for one reason. Negroes win.

    White men cannot win against the Negroes with the fist or shaky ass.

    But they can win by unity and ruthlessness.

    , @fnn
    @Stan D Mute

    Goodbye, Lycaon pictus:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9LkjMlke2E

  67. @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    “Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.”

    Goy actors/actresses in Hollywood play Jewish roles all of the time and vice versa with Jews playing Goy roles.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Jefferson

    We recently spent time with my wife's family - non-practicing Jewish stepfather, non-practicing Christian mother and 2 half-brothers who are half Jewish (patrilineal), half-Gentile. Both of the men are (and were last week) very vocal about their Jewish ethnicity. Neither were bar mitzvahed and neither have ever cracked the Torah but as New Yorkers, I think they both realize they're far more likely to succeed as Jews than as some interesting mix of Italian, Irish, English and Jewish. I think Jews of any level of religious fervor will call out that Jewishness when they're doing business in the major metros of America. It's just the smart play given the likelihood that they will be looked upon favorably in hiring and in other business dealings.

  68. Open borders will solidify and strengthen the existing Jewish diversity scheme in the US.

    In the US, the Jewish diversity scheme is dominated by reformed Judaism adherents.

    Because reformed Judaism has different ideas about Jewish group survival versus conservative Judaism, some important changes will occur.

    Reformed Judaism is lukewarm about Zionism because it aggravates Muslims, a natural Jewish ally, and will likely use their US influence to force Israeli’s to compromise rather than steal more land.

  69. @duderino
    The article seems to imply that internal European immigrants would be a useful parallel to Mexican Americans if not for the massive scale of migration to America. Do 50 college students go missing forever in Spain? Do people get hung off of bridges? Open border advocates would do well to acknowledge that a Englishman immigrating to Germany is be more successful than a Mexican immigrating to America.

    Here's the interesting thing: I think the author does believe that the American situation is different, he's just not being completely honest as to why. If the entire French population moved to Germany over 50 years, would he be predicting compulsory police training to deal with street crime? How about a completely giving up of the idea that "all men are created equal"? Of course not. The GMU lunch table believes in a degree of racial real talk, they just also believe in the white man's burden. And of course, our precious GDP. Its just so convenient when "reducing inequality" seems to also benefit Wall Street.

    Replies: @bomag

    Its just so convenient when “reducing inequality” seems to also benefit Wall Street.

    Until it doesn’t, one day.

    The Libertarians seem to think everyone can create value and resources unto infinity. I suspect that that is not the way to bet.

    We’re barreling towards a machine future, with humans existing largely as pets. Spaying and neutering services may be required.

  70. I saw this article today. It is pure propaganda for the open borders movement. It claims that the solution for Canada’s supposedly low population growth is of course more immigration to pay for the aging population so we don’t end up like Japan. It did not mention that Canada already has one of the highest per capita rates of immigration in the west, and as a consequence population growth that is higher than most western countries.

    Some excerpts:

    http://www.cantechletter.com/2015/08/why-the-solution-to-canadas-low-population-growth-is-more-immigration/

    “The OECD expects that Canada will see the percentage of its population under the age of 15 decline from 16.5% to 15.6% between 2010 and 2050. This, says, Sakir will have numerous social and economic implications that could put a permanent halt to our growth.

    For a glimpse into the future, one need look no further than Japan, where an aging population has stalled the country’s once miraculous economy to the point where it will probably never recover.”

    ““Immigration is the greatest anti-poverty program ever devised,” says Canadian-born economist Alex Tabarrok, co-author of the highly-regarded economics blog Marginal Revolution. Tabarrok was co-author of the 2006 “Open Letter on Immigration”, which was addressed to then President George W. Bush and all Members of Congress. The letter, which was co-signed by more than 500 economists, laid out the case that immigration was not a burden but a benefit to Americans.

    “Immigrants do not take American jobs. The American economy can create as many jobs as there are workers willing to work so long as labor markets remain free, flexible and open to all workers on an equal basis,” explained the letter.”

  71. @iSteveFan
    @grey enlightenment2


    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.
     
    Let's be clear. Those folks are not discussing immigration. They are discussing mass immigration. Immigration is something that is hardly noticeable at times. It brings in a select amount of folks to fill certain niche gaps and to compensate for whatever emigration might take place.

    Mass immigration is completely different as it imports groups in large enough numbers so as to alter the population makeup of a nation which leads to changes in its culture and values. So assuming your question is in regards to mass immigration, just ask yourself the following. Where else, besides insanely crazy white nations, is it being practiced? And if mass immigration is the key to job growth and the road to riches, why is it Mexico and a host of other nations are not preventing their peasants from leaving, and trying to draw in as many of their neighbors as possible? I mean Mexico could become a rich economic super power if they just kept their peasants from leaving, and invited all of Central America into Mexico.

    But they are not doing that. No one is doing that except the crazy white nations. And the crazy white nations seem to be on a decline when it comes to quality of life issues and such.

    Also, use the NE Asians as a barometer. They have no problem adopting Western ideas such as high tech, classical music, and our education system. But they don't seem to want to touch mass immigration at all. That should tell you something.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Wilkey

    “Also, use the NE Asians as a barometer. They have no problem adopting Western ideas such as high tech, classical music, and our education system. But they don’t seem to want to touch mass immigration at all. That should tell you something.”

    Michelle Malkin who is Filipina is opposes mass 3rd world immigration/amnesty/open borders. Because of she is often called a wannabe White by the Left, a coconut, a twinkie, the White man’s bitch, and an Asian Aunt Jemima.

  72. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    There’s distinction that many need to make but don’t. An open borders policy is not libertarian it is anarchism. Libertarian espouses individual liberty and minimal laws for subjects within the nation. Libertarianism then is not the absence of laws. An open borders no immigration policy is an absence of law.

    Open Borders might want to claim they are merely libertarian internationalists who want to eliminate laws that impede the liberty of people’s every where from moving across national borders. The problem is how to coherently claim that movement across national borders is permissible but movement into and across private property rights is not. This line of reasoning will result in a world of open borders filled with Balkanized private communities. So one may be able to freely move across borders but once there they may not be able to get into the places they want because acess to most of them are restricted by private communities.

    It’ll be like wanting to go to a public beach but where access to it is restricted by private property. The beach is accessible in theory only. So the end result of open borders with the enforcement of private property law may end up achieving higher restriction of people than the status quo. This is assuming diversity and discrimination laws don’t trump private property and freedom of association. For example: Maria the peasant maid from Guatemala and Esteban the mexican jardinero are allowed into La Nueva Comunidad Libre de Santa Mónica for 8 hours of work a day but then must return home. Similarly d’shatatvious from Palmdale will be disappointed to know after driving down to the La Ciudad Inclusiva Soverana de Hollywood Occidental that he is denied entry because he cannot afford the entry fee, he is assured by the representative of Mayor Oprah Winfrey that it’s not because he’s black, and told to return when he can pay the $10k entry pass.

  73. @manton
    @Harry Baldwin

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by "Are you Jewish?" This is Park Ave the 50s, so lots of high-achieving, assimilated, non-religious Wall Street Jews there working in hedge funds, PE houses, boutique investment banks and the like. The point, I gather, is to see if they can "reconvert" the ethnically Jewish but non-religious back into the faith. However, they are only interested if you are actually ethnically Jewish. All they have to go on is how you look. Profiling! I call it "plausible Jew." If you look plausibly Jewish, they will approach. I am 75% Italian and 100% Mediterranean and I get the question every single time.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sunbeam, @Fun with aluminum, @Harry Baldwin

    I lived in Israel for a couple of years, though I am not myself Jewish. Some of the orthodox over there over there do this too; I got asked once. The reason for the profiling is that Jews are forbidden to proselytize, so their ‘evangelicals’ can only attempt to convince lapsed Jews to get closer to god; they can’t attempt to convert anyone. (It actually is possible to convert, but the motivation has to come entirely from you, not from any sort of arm-twisting.)

  74. Even if Trump gets in, and let’s say he does. I remain pessimistic.

    Say we close the border and abandon Anglo-American liberal globalism, thereby giving the middle and working classes some breathing space, assimilate the post 65 arrivals, make housing affordable and actually give young people a chance to have kids!

    Will people remember the lesson? Will they tell their children to never forget? To never let their vigilance down? Will future generations take their kids to the wall, point and say that wall represents affordable housing, communal cohesion and a social safety net.

    I’m talking about moderates and liberals. They are too atomized to think of a nation as patrimony and anything beyond themselves except in some cloudy, nebulous, overly idealized way. Even when thinking beyond themselves, particularly when feeling “compassionate,” they are less altruistic than they are social signaling. They don’t have a sense of history in a nationalistic, tribal way. Our hatreds are the products of disbelief that anyone could reject our way of [universal, political and economic] salvation. Witness our hatred of the Russians. Outside of geo-political scheming it makes no sense.

    As someone of old American stock (Sam Haysom), I can say that more of my kin are dead because of English or German soldiers than ever died due to Russians or Arabs. It’d be more healthy if we learned the value of the blood feud.

    Some dangers are perennial, but manageable if the people are vigilant. The left, as always, will continue to scheme and plot. They will learn nothing except how to advance their goals more cleverly. They will go underground, as they always do.As long as there are nerds with high school grudges, cat ladies, ethnic chauvinists, utopian fools and general malcontents the spirit of 1793 and 94 will live on.Those elements of the wealthy who remain hostile towards the people they rule or are ruthlessly greedy will, of course, never rest.

    But will people let their guard down vis-a-vis Wall Street? Past history says they will. Past history says that when wars are won and times are good, people let their guard down.

  75. Mass immigration is completely different as it imports groups in large enough numbers so as to …..No one is doing that except the crazy white nations

    Add short sighted, stupid and subconsciously self-hating.

    • Replies: @e
    @Clyde

    Add short sighted, stupid and subconsciously self-hating.

    Not "self hating, " conscious or subconscious. Prog whites are the most self-loving people on earth. They believe their own shyt, that they and only they can save the black man, and by extension, all people "of color." They believe only their cognitive and financial largess can accomplish that. They enjoy thinking that too. They are actually race realists in that they understand biodiversity; it's just that they're not about to admit it.

    Replies: @Clyde

  76. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/23/baby-crisis-europe-brink-depopulation-disaster

    Poor European nations lose their native populations to richer nations. And migrants don’t want to stay there either and move on. Both go to richer nations like Germany, UK, and Sweden that do see a population surplus. But that means foreigners are taking over.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Priss Factor

    You notice that 'The Guardian' chooses to publish this piece right now - so that it boosts the 'case' for bringing in more 'migrants'.

    Replies: @Priss Factor

  77. @Chang
    If America says on current projections it will suck, but be tolerable as a Brazil with better institutions and a better Overclass. Probably be run by alternating Socialists and Right-wing Strong Men. Surveillance Tech will keep improving to keep crime at high, but tolerable levels.

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb - then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Black Crime is high but tolerable at 13% of the population. When they get near majority they typically ruin a city.

    The African Population Bomb is a huge unknown in the near-future. Where will they go? Europe? America? Can they be convinced to stay in Africa?

    Replies: @Sunbeam, @Stan D Mute, @Wilkey

    We don’t have to “convince” them to stay in Africa. We just have to keep them out of our countries By Any Means Necessary.

    And black social ills can kill a city long before blacks reach a majority of the population.

    • Agree: Kylie
  78. @iSteveFan
    @grey enlightenment2


    I’ve read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn’t.
     
    Let's be clear. Those folks are not discussing immigration. They are discussing mass immigration. Immigration is something that is hardly noticeable at times. It brings in a select amount of folks to fill certain niche gaps and to compensate for whatever emigration might take place.

    Mass immigration is completely different as it imports groups in large enough numbers so as to alter the population makeup of a nation which leads to changes in its culture and values. So assuming your question is in regards to mass immigration, just ask yourself the following. Where else, besides insanely crazy white nations, is it being practiced? And if mass immigration is the key to job growth and the road to riches, why is it Mexico and a host of other nations are not preventing their peasants from leaving, and trying to draw in as many of their neighbors as possible? I mean Mexico could become a rich economic super power if they just kept their peasants from leaving, and invited all of Central America into Mexico.

    But they are not doing that. No one is doing that except the crazy white nations. And the crazy white nations seem to be on a decline when it comes to quality of life issues and such.

    Also, use the NE Asians as a barometer. They have no problem adopting Western ideas such as high tech, classical music, and our education system. But they don't seem to want to touch mass immigration at all. That should tell you something.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Wilkey

    Has Japan ever had an attack by an Islamic terrorist? Has South Korea? Taiwan?

    • Replies: @Mark Green
    @Wilkey

    As far as I know, neither Japan, China or Korea have ever been attacked by a Muslim terrorist. Why? These Asian nations are not interfering in the political affairs of the Arab world nor are they shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous Nephew

  79. I wrote on this on my blog – thenationalspectrum.com – just a few days ago. What we would have is a massive influx of latinos and Africans the sum of which whould cheange the USA into some hybrid of a turd world brown-black culture. It wouls affect Canada as well. Whites would have to either move to Australia if allowed to enter or fail to reproduce and, eventually, peter out. The America we know would die as well because it is rooted in the Protestant ethic which would be overrun by the latino Catholic justice theory and the Afro primitive culture. There aren’t enough Asians to matter in that equation and they are as detested as whites by the brown/black cohort. In paraphrasing Derbyshire’s book title, we would be doomed. I think the chances of this scenario are fairly slim but that a similar result is more likely to occur over time if we do not stop all immigration and get a better grip on our country and ourselves.

  80. @FD
    Have these people not read Snow Crash?

    Replies: @Alice, @Brutusale

    Or this, which predated Snow Crash by a few years.

    Zonies and people kibble.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    @Brutusale

    "Or this, which predated Snow Crash by a few years.

    http://www.amazon.com/Little-Heroes-Norman-Spinrad/dp/1490399429

    Zonies and people kibble."

    Wow for some reason I didn't think Spinrad wrote anything past the 70's.

    But checking out your link:

    "The City teems with Uzi-toting enforcers, kibble-munching streeties and wire heads plugged into the latest electronic high. And somewhere along the line, rock and roll has lost its soul — or rather sold it to a [b]megacorporation that churns out synthesized hits with all the passion of the market research reports that dictate their demographic parameters.[/b]"

    Expect for the Kibble and in the US at least they don't seem to be fond of Uzi's that's pretty prescient. Kibble might actually be healthier than hot pockets and some of the other crap that the "proles" eat though.

    "Spinrad mined media hype and manipulation to fine effect in his early novel, Bug Jack Barron. Now 18 years later, he has another go with this near future story of the conglomerate MUZIK's desire to substitute APs (artificial personalities) for its troublesome rock stars."

    I've had the same idea for years. Most people never see their idols in person. Maybe in a concert or something, but that's about it. So why do they need to really exist?

    You can say the same thing for actors. Exactly when it is possible I do not know, but I expect to one day see enough computing power at a reasonable price such that you could render whatever you wanted on screen. You could substitute actors at first, but eventually you can render everything.

    I don't know that there will be film or television using live actors in the long run. But stage will probably survive, in manner akin to Vinyl and 8 tracks and cassettes.

    Actually with anime you could make the case we are already there, at least with some market segments. And these kids are going to grow up. Heck we have enough of a critical mass that animated cartoon movies for adults would be viable, and not just as oddities like Wizards. I know that geek culture doesn't have problem one with animation.

    I really don't expect the computing power I described above to take that long. Ten years maybe tops, guess that is my Friedman unit.

    But think of it: no prima donnas, no rehabs, no emo, they show up for work sober. And most of all they don't need a paycheck.

    You just know the glimmers of this are warming the hackles of studio execs as we type at each other.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  81. “”No surprises” is the motto of the franchise ghetto…. The people of America, who live in the world’s most surprising and terrible country, take comfort in that motto.
    Follow the loglo outward, to where the growth is enfolded into the valleys and the canyons, and you find the land of the refugees….
    They have parallel-parked their bimbo boxes in identical computer-designed Burbclave street patterns and secreted themselves in symmetrical sheetrock shitholes with vinyl floors and ill-fitting woodwork and no sidewalks ….
    The only ones left in the city are street people…immigrants…young bohos; and the technomedia priesthood….
    Young, smart people like Da5id and Hiro, who take the risk of living in the city because they like stimulation and they know they can handle it.” Snow Crash

  82. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Anon
    If entire populations of third-world countries are determined to move to first-world countries for the economic benefit, it creates a moral justification for first-world nations to go and take over those third-world countries and run them for the benefit of those third-world people.

    It would be a new wave of neo-colonialism. The left would hate it, but seriously, if first-world taxpayers are footing the bill--indirectly, which we certainly are--for all the outrageous third-world corruption and violence, then it entirely justifies running the third-world and getting rid of their governments, installing the rule of law, getting rid of bribery, and doing all those other things like providing free birth control so the third-worlders don't overrun the entire planet and create mass famines and an ugly Malthusian breakdown everywhere.

    The next half of this century isn't going to be pretty unless neo-colonialism happens. The math of third world breeding, lack of jobs, and the desire to emigrate to better-run countries is cold, hard, and implacable. We're going to be overrun by numbers that make today's immigration levels look tiny and have our standard of living destroyed when our economic systems buckle under the weight and collapse.

    Replies: @Priss Factor, @silviosilver

    “If entire populations of third-world countries are determined to move to first-world countries for the economic benefit, it creates a moral justification for first-world nations to go and take over those third-world countries and run them for the benefit of those third-world people.”

    How is it that white folks went to places like Australia and North America where there was no economy to speak of and turned them into great economies, but so many non-white folks cannot do anything with their own nations and move to the West to leech off whites.

    Whites turn nothing into something, hordes of non-whites want something for nothing.

  83. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I live in a nice suburb north of Dallas populated by many Indian and Southeast Asian H1Bs and their green card predecessors. I take my children to the library every few weeks or so. Normally, we are one of the few white families there. Indians and Asians LOVE taking full advantage of library services. We normally have to stand and wait for a solid 5-10 minutes to check out our 6 books because they normally check out DOZENS of books and videos. Tragedy of the commons writ large as different cultures determine differently what is culturally permissible. Robert Putnam couldn’t have been more correct.

  84. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…“Immigrants do not take American jobs. The American economy can create as many jobs as there are workers willing to work so long as labor markets remain free, flexible and open to all workers on an equal basis,” explained the letter.”…”

    Okay, fine, but does the letter explain where this ends? A Ponzi scheme can create wealth for all… up until it can’t. What happens when you’ve reached late-Mayan or Easter Island levels of population overload and one more thing going wrong can wipe out civilization? What happens when you need to create jobs for all in the next 6 months…. and can’t?

    Heck, we can’t even seem to create jobs that easily to get back to 2008.

    Another thing. I’m getting pretty pessimistic about the ability for the “creative” to create really new jobs. I don’t see a huge amount of really new stuff coming out of “makers” and all that. There is progress, but it’s slow and hard won. Usually what you see is along the lines of “ok, we have way to many burger joints…. I know! An Ethiopian fast food restaurant with good beer!”

  85. @SFG
    Brazil.


    Poorer and more crowded, with really huge slums.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @silviosilver

    I’m thinking more like India is the logical endpoint. After all, Brazil still has white people. India, not so much.

  86. @Harry Baldwin
    @SFG

    I don't know, I've been taken for a Jew several times in my career just because my name is German and I don't look distinctly non-Jewish. It may have done me some good. My father, who was in academia, told me the same thing.

    A Jewish executive I had worked with for years at an ad agency was shocked when she heard I was going to be at work on Yom Kippur. "What kind of Jew are you?" she asked.

    "A Catholic one?" I answered.

    Replies: @manton, @fnn, @SFG, @Anon

    I bet if you asked 100 Jews in the NYC MSA if Trump was Jewish, more than half would say yes. They assume any NYer that pushy and rich must be.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon

    He's mentioned that he's Presbyterian and attends church in interviews. His physical appearance would also be an outlier among Jews.

  87. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Shine a Light
    With Open Borders in the US, rival powers such as Russia or China could take cargo ships to the coast of Africa, India, Bangladesh, wherever, and load up with the huddled masses of the Third World, and then deposit their human cargo at the nearest US port. If they hustled, these countries could maybe pump 50-100 million Third Worlders a year in the US, not the mention the other immigrants from the Americas that would make the trip on their own. If Europe was smart they would encourage their Muslims populations to move to the US as well.

    We would get to Mad Max territory pretty quickly.

    Replies: @Priss Factor

    “With Open Borders in the US, rival powers such as Russia or China could take cargo ships to the coast of Africa, India, Bangladesh, wherever, and load up with the huddled masses of the Third World, and then deposit their human cargo at the nearest US port.”

    ROTFL. Camp of Saints on steroids.

  88. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Stan D Mute
    @Chang


    the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl.
     
    This will be the story of the 21st Century. 4 billion Africans forecast by 2100AD. Europe will be wiped out. Gone. Eastern Europe may resist, but France, Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Spain, Greece, all will be inundated and destroyed. The Americas may survive due to the logistics of moving hundreds of millions of low IQ feral breeders across the Atlantic, but I'm confident every effort will be made to "save" these "refugees" from their own incompetence and out of control reproduction. They will, like a tsunami, overwhelm and destroy everything in their path.

    The real question is where and how will it be stopped. After consuming and destroying Europe, they will try to turn east. Will Russia do what is necessary to stop them? Will India? I have no doubt that China would do whatever was necessary to ensure its survival, but I can envision a world consisting only of East Asians and Africans.

    Replies: @Priss Factor, @Priss Factor, @fnn

    “I have no doubt that China would do whatever was necessary to ensure its survival, but I can envision a world consisting only of East Asians and Africans.”

    Peter Frost says China has a million Negroes already.

    The problem of having Negroes is this. They get more media coverage.

    If a nation mistreats people X, who the hell cares?

    But Jews, Negroes, and homos get special treatment.

    So, if Chinese beat on Tibetans or Uighurs, there will be some noise, but not much. But if they mistreat Negroes, there will be a big brouhaha in the West. Of course, if any nation mistreats Jews, it is in big big trouble.
    So, nations without Negroes and Jews are blessed.

    Suppose a nation has a population X that is really troublesome. Suppose the nation decides to kick the ass of population X. The Western media(that is the world media) and Western governments(that rule the world) won’t give a shit. It’s like no one cares about what Pakistan is doing to Pashtuns or what Turkey is doing to Kurds.

    But if a nation has blacks and Jews, no matter how badly blacks or Jews act, they have to be treated with kid gloves the nation will be targeted for condemnation by global media and the West.

    This is why homos are useful for the West to guilt-trip nations. Many nations don’t have Jews or blacks, but they all have homos, and so every nation can conceivably be attacked for its ‘homophobia’.

    Anyway, if you wanna kick some minority ass for bad behavior, pray the minority is not Jews or blacks. The world won’t give a shit.

  89. @anonymous
    "How would America evolve under open borders?"

    Wouldn't it be like all living together in one big very obnoxious airport? Doesn't everybody want to live in the Los Vegas or LA airport? Just wait for the announcements to tell you what to do.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Mr. Anon, @Jeff77450

    Wouldn’t it be like all living together in one big very obnoxious airport?

    A big international airport lounge was the first analogy I came up with when I began to think seriously about race and immigration. Sure, it’s easy to “tolerate” the people there (probably because you know you’re never going to see them again), but surely there’s no genuine appreciation taking place. What idiot would think that’s a model for a country to follow?

    I really thought this analogy would floor people. I’ve been bitterly disappointed to discover that it doesn’t. I mean, people can see the sense in it, but I think they then realize what the implications are and that frightens them, so their brains start producing desperate excuses about why it’ll all work out okay anyway.

  90. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Sunbeam
    @Chang

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Sailer has discussed this several times. But aside from sites like this, has it ever been discussed by anyone? The elites are more capable than most of understanding what graphs mean. So what kind of discussions happens behind closed doors? Do they toe the ideology line?

    To me it seems like common sense. If you have surplus population in one place that essentially doesn't have much to do, or made the poor choice not to be born in a connected family... of course they go somewhere else if they perceive that to be a better situation and they are allowed to.

    Things like oceans used to be barriers. But now unless unless you actively stop them, nothing is a barrier. Obviously it helps to have people that went ahead and established communities.

    But what stops it other than controlling Immigration, and in the end with force whether by border guards, or police and deportation? I think a fence would work with Mexico, but if you aren't going to actively enforce things it will be as useless as some pundits claim.

    But again what stops this sort of thing? I'd imagine that if Australia said tomorrow that they would allow unlimited immigration from China, they could double their population in a year. My take is that you could easily find 20 or 25 million Chinese that would go there cold out of their 1.3 billion plus people. And it's actually easier than that, since there is some Chinese presence there already, and it's not like China isn't close as things work now.

    And the same story with the US. I'm not from California, but from reading this site, if things don't change we will have a Mexican/Chinese West Coast with the Chinese playing the same role they did in lots of southeast Asia countries. Heck we could probably get millions of Chinese trying to buy plane tickets at the same time if we rubberstamped visas for them.

    But we talk about things like this all the time here. All these guys, let's just lump them all together and call them "elites" no matter the party or ideology, they have to know all this.

    So what is the end game? I've always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn't exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing. Or you think that all the new immigrants are just standard issue white people behaviorally, just new faces, so things will be as they always were.

    So do they just think it will never come to that? They totally believe their own arguments at face value with no cynicism? What?

    Replies: @Anon, @ben tillman, @Dew, @n/a

    My FIL, a Queens-horn Jew with a decidedly vocal anti-minority streak, made his money in a cash-only home goods business in the ghetto. He’s out of it now. My wife (his step-daughter) and I saw him recently and told him of the impending Fair Housing regulations coming from HUD to forcibly integrate white neighborhoods. After arguing that we were crazy, he finally relented and said, “well, I don’t really care, it doesn’t effect me.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon

    He's old. I'm an under-50 Jew, and I fervently hope that the Congressional Republicans defund HUD to prevent the Fair Housing regulations from being imposed. Stanley Kurtz, a middle-aged Jewish guy who is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and writes for National Review, has been one of the most strident critics of the Fair Housing regs, devoting a book and several recent articles to them.

  91. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “So do they just think it will never come to that? They totally believe their own arguments at face value with no cynicism? What?”

    I don’t think they take the time to think about their arguments, they just repeat them.

    The current class of politicians and “leaders” of most of our institutions came of age mentally in the 60s. They are like the old Soviets in the 80s. They can’t conceive that the world has changed. They can’t conceive that we (and they) are not all powerful. It really doesn’t occur to them that their assumptions are wrong. They are innumerate, do not think through consequences, and instinctively hew to arguments that reinforce the social position of the nomenklatura, that is, of themselves. They endlessly repeat the mantras of the 60s mob.

    They’ve been at so many convention hall tables that it’s all just words and attitudes. They don’t really think about it. They think tactically, about what phrase shows others that they are on the side of the angels. They learned all about it 50 years ago and they’ve been fighting the good fight ever since. They don’t even question it. It’s who they are.

    They need a wake up call and they are starting to get it. But most probably won’t. Instead they will just gradually die off. If we are lucky their idiodicacy will die with them.

  92. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Stan D Mute
    @Chang


    the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl.
     
    This will be the story of the 21st Century. 4 billion Africans forecast by 2100AD. Europe will be wiped out. Gone. Eastern Europe may resist, but France, Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Spain, Greece, all will be inundated and destroyed. The Americas may survive due to the logistics of moving hundreds of millions of low IQ feral breeders across the Atlantic, but I'm confident every effort will be made to "save" these "refugees" from their own incompetence and out of control reproduction. They will, like a tsunami, overwhelm and destroy everything in their path.

    The real question is where and how will it be stopped. After consuming and destroying Europe, they will try to turn east. Will Russia do what is necessary to stop them? Will India? I have no doubt that China would do whatever was necessary to ensure its survival, but I can envision a world consisting only of East Asians and Africans.

    Replies: @Priss Factor, @Priss Factor, @fnn

    “The real question is where and how will it be stopped. After consuming and destroying Europe, they will try to turn east. Will Russia do what is necessary to stop them?”

    I think we have to consider the white male vs white female attitude on this.

    While all whites do feel some degree of trepidation and even fear about blacks, I think white men and white women regard this differently. White women are now into hip hop and jungle fever and all that. So, the horny side of them might not resist the massive tide of Negro-ness. They might see it as more sexual opportunity to ‘go black’.
    White women especially feel this way since white males have been so wussified.

    Naturally, white males, who can easily be beaten and whupped by Negroes, should defend their sexual rights by uniting and fighting for their race, but entire generations of white males have been castrated into ‘white boys’ weaned on (1) cult of ‘white guilt’ (2) evil of ‘racism’ (3) hipness of black sports domination(a form of public cuckold fest) (4) endless readings of TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD (5) year after year of movies like DJANGO UNCHAINED and 12 YRS A SLAVE (6) interracist sexual culture, even propaganda (7) black music domination in the club scene.

    White men must go into Ethan Mode of THE SEARCHERS. White wombs for white seeds. It must be primal. It must be powerful. It must be angry. No more pussyfooting about abstract ideas. Only the barbarian forthrightness and warrior soul can save the West now. And only by showing that white men can unite and fight will white women begin to have respect for white men again. Sure, initially white women will denounce angry white men as ‘racist’ and ‘reactionary’ and ‘evil’, but when white men whup ass and win, they will have the respect of their women. It’s the psychology of womanhood to go with winners no matter what.

    A real determines what is necessary and true. He strives to win. Once he wins, he has the women.

    White women flock to black athletes for one reason. Negroes win.

    White men cannot win against the Negroes with the fist or shaky ass.

    But they can win by unity and ruthlessness.

  93. Yeah, to be honest, even if Trump won, and did what he said – the ProgMedia backlash to frame him as the New Hitler would be so strong we’d probably get an UltrProg to replace him who would undo everything. Just like Obama raped America after Bush. The America Strong! crowd supported Bush, but ended up with Obama who’s using the military to push Cultural Marxism like trannies in uniform and chicks in Ranger School.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Chang


    Yeah, to be honest, even if Trump won, and did what he said – the ProgMedia backlash to frame him as the New Hitler would be so strong we’d probably get an UltrProg to replace him who would undo everything.
     
    I think a Trump version of "liberal fascism" would be pretty cool, not the nightmare that a Jonah Goldberg imagines. I'm thinking here of a muscular liberalism that doesn't take any crap from third world anti-liberal cultures, neither at home nor abroad, neither from the lunatic left nor from the "traditionalist"/religionist right.

    Not only would there be plenty of room in that liberal fascism for racial realism, it'd be mandatory. After all, racial realism is true and real liberalism actually values truth (unlike the leftarded simulacrum of liberalism that rules the roost today). Not only would anti-whitism be stopped dead in its tracks, whites could be celebrated as the founders of the liberal order and the bringers of liberalism to a benighted world, much the way Jews are respected as being a "light unto the nations" (not wholly untrue, but on the other side of that coin also a curse unto the nations, if we're to be frank).

    That represents a significant departure from the course currently being plotted, so it's easy to imagine a subsequent regime reversing any such policies, but if such policies prove popular enough, no subsequent regime would have the mandate to reverse them.
  94. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jefferson
    @Harry Baldwin

    "Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish."

    Goy actors/actresses in Hollywood play Jewish roles all of the time and vice versa with Jews playing Goy roles.

    Replies: @Anon

    We recently spent time with my wife’s family – non-practicing Jewish stepfather, non-practicing Christian mother and 2 half-brothers who are half Jewish (patrilineal), half-Gentile. Both of the men are (and were last week) very vocal about their Jewish ethnicity. Neither were bar mitzvahed and neither have ever cracked the Torah but as New Yorkers, I think they both realize they’re far more likely to succeed as Jews than as some interesting mix of Italian, Irish, English and Jewish. I think Jews of any level of religious fervor will call out that Jewishness when they’re doing business in the major metros of America. It’s just the smart play given the likelihood that they will be looked upon favorably in hiring and in other business dealings.

  95. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Kylie
    How would America evolve under open borders?

    It wouldn't. It would continue to devolve, but at a faster rate than it is now.

    Was that supposed to be a trick question?

    Replies: @Priss Factor

    I don’t think Canada wants open borders with the US.

    Why would Canada want everyone in Detroit coming over there?

    There is something sick in the white soul.

    It’s like US already has enough headache with blacks, but places like St. Paul imports yet more blacks from Somalia. Maybe they figure slender Somali blacks are better than American blacks.

    I dunno. It’s still crazy.

  96. I think the Ruling Class just honestly believes the Diversity Cult. At least in their Far Mode belief system. Diversity is Good. More Diversity is Better!

    Most Religions and Cults have ridiculous beliefs that even devout adherents don’t act like they believe in their day-to-day life.

    They honestly believe in the madness of White Privilege – the new Original Sin.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    @Chang

    "I think the Ruling Class just honestly believes the Diversity Cult. At least in their Far Mode belief system. Diversity is Good. More Diversity is Better!"

    The savvier ones see it as a game, like the evil general(Adolphe Menjou) in PATHS OF GLORY.

    But yes, there are plenty who really stake their moral and spiritual superiority on the diversity cult. Why else would Chelsea adopt an African child? Why else would Boehner's daughter marry some Negro? Why would the Romney's adopt from Negro kid?
    Why else would Jeb put on a sombrero?

  97. @pyrrhus
    @Harry Baldwin

    You can identify as a Jew all you want, but the Jews will identify you otherwise....

    Replies: @silviosilver

    You can identify as a Jew all you want, but the Jews will identify you otherwise….

    It’s not all that difficult to fake being Jewish. I’ve done it in real life on numerous occasions and never been called out. It’s certainly possible that people I think I’ve fooled in fact doubt me behind my back, but if – to the extent that I am able to tell – they treat me as though they believe me then what does it really matter?

    Of course, it helps greatly to be able to visually pass as a Jew (which I can in the sense that no one would think “nah, no way could you be Jewish,” but not in the sense of “well duh, what else could you be”) and to be familiar with typical Jewish social attitudes (which I am, both from what I’ve learned online and because southern Europeans often tend to see things the same way as Jews anyway).

  98. @Anon
    If entire populations of third-world countries are determined to move to first-world countries for the economic benefit, it creates a moral justification for first-world nations to go and take over those third-world countries and run them for the benefit of those third-world people.

    It would be a new wave of neo-colonialism. The left would hate it, but seriously, if first-world taxpayers are footing the bill--indirectly, which we certainly are--for all the outrageous third-world corruption and violence, then it entirely justifies running the third-world and getting rid of their governments, installing the rule of law, getting rid of bribery, and doing all those other things like providing free birth control so the third-worlders don't overrun the entire planet and create mass famines and an ugly Malthusian breakdown everywhere.

    The next half of this century isn't going to be pretty unless neo-colonialism happens. The math of third world breeding, lack of jobs, and the desire to emigrate to better-run countries is cold, hard, and implacable. We're going to be overrun by numbers that make today's immigration levels look tiny and have our standard of living destroyed when our economic systems buckle under the weight and collapse.

    Replies: @Priss Factor, @silviosilver

    The math of third world breeding, lack of jobs, and the desire to emigrate to better-run countries is cold, hard, and implacable.

    It’s not really a problem of generalized third world breeding. It’s a problem of specifically black African overbreeding. Aside from black Africa and a couple of Arab countries, the rest of the world is either below, at, or fast converging towards replacement fertility.

    Now, black Africa is and has been reducing its fertility, but in comparison to other countries that transitioned from high fertility to low fertility, it’s doing it painfully slowly. At this point, a doubling of their population is baked into the cake, and a tripling is very, very likely. But perhaps, if we’re lucky, we can avoid a quadrupling. Implication: big trouble up ahead.

    • Replies: @5371
    @silviosilver

    [the rest of the world is either below, at, or fast converging towards replacement fertility]

    No, this vastly overstates the case.

    [black Africa is and has been reducing its fertility]

    Apart from the far south, no it isn't.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  99. @Brutusale
    @FD

    Or this, which predated Snow Crash by a few years.

    http://www.amazon.com/Little-Heroes-Norman-Spinrad/dp/1490399429

    Zonies and people kibble.

    Replies: @Sunbeam

    “Or this, which predated Snow Crash by a few years.

    Zonies and people kibble.”

    Wow for some reason I didn’t think Spinrad wrote anything past the 70’s.

    But checking out your link:

    “The City teems with Uzi-toting enforcers, kibble-munching streeties and wire heads plugged into the latest electronic high. And somewhere along the line, rock and roll has lost its soul — or rather sold it to a [b]megacorporation that churns out synthesized hits with all the passion of the market research reports that dictate their demographic parameters.[/b]”

    Expect for the Kibble and in the US at least they don’t seem to be fond of Uzi’s that’s pretty prescient. Kibble might actually be healthier than hot pockets and some of the other crap that the “proles” eat though.

    “Spinrad mined media hype and manipulation to fine effect in his early novel, Bug Jack Barron. Now 18 years later, he has another go with this near future story of the conglomerate MUZIK’s desire to substitute APs (artificial personalities) for its troublesome rock stars.”

    I’ve had the same idea for years. Most people never see their idols in person. Maybe in a concert or something, but that’s about it. So why do they need to really exist?

    You can say the same thing for actors. Exactly when it is possible I do not know, but I expect to one day see enough computing power at a reasonable price such that you could render whatever you wanted on screen. You could substitute actors at first, but eventually you can render everything.

    I don’t know that there will be film or television using live actors in the long run. But stage will probably survive, in manner akin to Vinyl and 8 tracks and cassettes.

    Actually with anime you could make the case we are already there, at least with some market segments. And these kids are going to grow up. Heck we have enough of a critical mass that animated cartoon movies for adults would be viable, and not just as oddities like Wizards. I know that geek culture doesn’t have problem one with animation.

    I really don’t expect the computing power I described above to take that long. Ten years maybe tops, guess that is my Friedman unit.

    But think of it: no prima donnas, no rehabs, no emo, they show up for work sober. And most of all they don’t need a paycheck.

    You just know the glimmers of this are warming the hackles of studio execs as we type at each other.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Sunbeam

    William Gibson has been mining the "synthespian" vein in a couple novels, too.

    I think Little Heroes, though, was Spinrad thinking that the MTV video craze would be forever. Musicians need to perform live.

  100. @manton
    @Harry Baldwin

    Pretty much every Friday afternoon, an RV full of ultra-Orthodox Jews pulls up on Park Ave and asks men (never women) passing by "Are you Jewish?" This is Park Ave the 50s, so lots of high-achieving, assimilated, non-religious Wall Street Jews there working in hedge funds, PE houses, boutique investment banks and the like. The point, I gather, is to see if they can "reconvert" the ethnically Jewish but non-religious back into the faith. However, they are only interested if you are actually ethnically Jewish. All they have to go on is how you look. Profiling! I call it "plausible Jew." If you look plausibly Jewish, they will approach. I am 75% Italian and 100% Mediterranean and I get the question every single time.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Sunbeam, @Fun with aluminum, @Harry Baldwin

    Shortly after 9/11/01, as I approached Grand Central Terminal, there was a crazy lady in front handing out hand-written, mimeographed tracts. (This activity of schizophrenics was common in the 1970s and I hadn’t recalled seeing it in years.) As I approached she asked if I was Catholic–that was evidently a prerequisite for receiving her tract. I wanted one, so I said yes. She looked at me skeptically. I said, “C’mon, I’m a Catholic. Old school. Pax vobiscum. Et cum spiritu tuo. Per omnia saecula saeculorum. Gloria in excelsis Deo.”

    She backed off in terror, tightly clutching her tracts.

  101. @Stan D Mute
    @Chang


    the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl.
     
    This will be the story of the 21st Century. 4 billion Africans forecast by 2100AD. Europe will be wiped out. Gone. Eastern Europe may resist, but France, Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Spain, Greece, all will be inundated and destroyed. The Americas may survive due to the logistics of moving hundreds of millions of low IQ feral breeders across the Atlantic, but I'm confident every effort will be made to "save" these "refugees" from their own incompetence and out of control reproduction. They will, like a tsunami, overwhelm and destroy everything in their path.

    The real question is where and how will it be stopped. After consuming and destroying Europe, they will try to turn east. Will Russia do what is necessary to stop them? Will India? I have no doubt that China would do whatever was necessary to ensure its survival, but I can envision a world consisting only of East Asians and Africans.

    Replies: @Priss Factor, @Priss Factor, @fnn

    Goodbye, Lycaon pictus:

  102. @Chang
    Yeah, to be honest, even if Trump won, and did what he said - the ProgMedia backlash to frame him as the New Hitler would be so strong we'd probably get an UltrProg to replace him who would undo everything. Just like Obama raped America after Bush. The America Strong! crowd supported Bush, but ended up with Obama who's using the military to push Cultural Marxism like trannies in uniform and chicks in Ranger School.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Yeah, to be honest, even if Trump won, and did what he said – the ProgMedia backlash to frame him as the New Hitler would be so strong we’d probably get an UltrProg to replace him who would undo everything.

    I think a Trump version of “liberal fascism” would be pretty cool, not the nightmare that a Jonah Goldberg imagines. I’m thinking here of a muscular liberalism that doesn’t take any crap from third world anti-liberal cultures, neither at home nor abroad, neither from the lunatic left nor from the “traditionalist”/religionist right.

    Not only would there be plenty of room in that liberal fascism for racial realism, it’d be mandatory. After all, racial realism is true and real liberalism actually values truth (unlike the leftarded simulacrum of liberalism that rules the roost today). Not only would anti-whitism be stopped dead in its tracks, whites could be celebrated as the founders of the liberal order and the bringers of liberalism to a benighted world, much the way Jews are respected as being a “light unto the nations” (not wholly untrue, but on the other side of that coin also a curse unto the nations, if we’re to be frank).

    That represents a significant departure from the course currently being plotted, so it’s easy to imagine a subsequent regime reversing any such policies, but if such policies prove popular enough, no subsequent regime would have the mandate to reverse them.

    • Agree: Luke Lea
  103. @Anonymous
    Cowan just linked to an article by author Smith. Cowan didn't ask anything.

    Replies: @HEL

    Cowan just linked to an article by author Smith. Cowan didn’t ask anything.

    Cowen didn’t link to an article. He actually pressed a number of buttons on his keyboard.

  104. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Chang
    I think the Ruling Class just honestly believes the Diversity Cult. At least in their Far Mode belief system. Diversity is Good. More Diversity is Better!

    Most Religions and Cults have ridiculous beliefs that even devout adherents don't act like they believe in their day-to-day life.

    They honestly believe in the madness of White Privilege - the new Original Sin.

    Replies: @Priss Factor

    “I think the Ruling Class just honestly believes the Diversity Cult. At least in their Far Mode belief system. Diversity is Good. More Diversity is Better!”

    The savvier ones see it as a game, like the evil general(Adolphe Menjou) in PATHS OF GLORY.

    But yes, there are plenty who really stake their moral and spiritual superiority on the diversity cult. Why else would Chelsea adopt an African child? Why else would Boehner’s daughter marry some Negro? Why would the Romney’s adopt from Negro kid?
    Why else would Jeb put on a sombrero?

  105. e says:
    @Clyde

    Mass immigration is completely different as it imports groups in large enough numbers so as to .....No one is doing that except the crazy white nations
     
    Add short sighted, stupid and subconsciously self-hating.

    Replies: @e

    Add short sighted, stupid and subconsciously self-hating.

    Not “self hating, ” conscious or subconscious. Prog whites are the most self-loving people on earth. They believe their own shyt, that they and only they can save the black man, and by extension, all people “of color.” They believe only their cognitive and financial largess can accomplish that. They enjoy thinking that too. They are actually race realists in that they understand biodiversity; it’s just that they’re not about to admit it.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @e

    You are probably correct!

  106. @27 year old
    (even) Lower wages, (even) lower quality of life, (even) fewer white families with (even)fewer children, etc, etc. Duh. It would go on indefinitely, just getting worse and worse because we're not going to do anything to stop it. Eventually we get to a boot stamping on a human face forever, with bonus of mass scale sex slavery.

    I expect this thread is going to have a few of the typical comments like "this will eventually provoke a white (violent) backlash" "when the saxon begins to hate, blah blah blah"

    I think these comments are basically impotent rage/wishful thinking from old guys. I think whites are going to keep trying to run away, and then we'll basically die off.

    If you're one of those guys posting that stuff, please include your theories on how this "backlash" 1. starts and 2. develops into anything other than occasional lone wolf freakouts, i.e. how is it organized?

    edit- please spare us the tactical porn about how easy it would be for 6 rednecks with deer rifles to blah blah blah. what i want to hear you explain is how you expect these 6 guys to meet, decide to act, ensure none of them rats to the FBI, recruit 6 more guys, decide to act again, etc, etc.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Jeff77450

    edit- please spare us the tactical porn about how easy it would be for 6 rednecks with deer rifles to blah blah blah. what i want to hear you explain is how you expect these 6 guys to meet, decide to act, ensure none of them rats to the FBI, recruit 6 more guys, decide to act again, etc, etc.”

    And why do you want to hear this? Do you work for the FBI? The SPLC? Why should anyone tell you jack?

    • Replies: @27 year old
    @Mr. Anon

    Not at all, I'd like all of the guys who post their vague revenge fantasies to put a little thought into how ridiculous they sound, and hopefully stop doing it altogether.

  107. The title should say devolve, not evolve. The linked articles are naive, written by people who have never lived among the desperate hoards around the world. Here is what I wrote back in 2008:

    https://donvandergriff.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/from-g2mil-borders-remain-open-what-we-dont-need-is-more-people/

    Here is the key part:

    “Imagine if Great Britain opened its borders to all the world’s peoples. Enterprising ship owners would soon find profitable cargo in the form of human migrants. They could ship people en masse to Britain for maybe $100 a head. Millions of refugees would board ships in India, Pakistan, Iraq, China, the Philippines, and all of Africa for the land of riches. Thousands would file off docks at British seaports each day with no money, no food, few skills, and no grasp of English.

    The population of British cities would double within four years. Schools, hospitals, and prisons would be overrun. Parks and sidewalks would teem with homeless refugees desperate for food. Crime rates would soar as homeowners erect high fences to keep out squatters, scavengers, and criminals. Millions of Britons would lose their jobs as immigrants are hired for a sterling a day. If mass immigration continues, the thousands of refugees who arrive each day would find themselves herded into massive refugee camps. These people want to work and become Britons, but there simply isn’t room.

    On the positive side, corporations would see large increases in profits as labor costs plunge. More people mean more economic activity, so GDP surges. Private security firm work would explode as every small business and house needs a security guard. Since governments must double in size to accommodate this larger population, government officials gain rapid promotions and spending power, boosting GDP further. This is because GDP is not a measure of prosperity, but activity. Therefore, mass immigration is good for GDP, as well as smoking, hurricanes, earthquakes, crime, automobile accidents, and wars.

    “The free movement of labor” into Britain would require a sharp rise in taxes to accommodate immigrants, even if they all find employment. This is because the existing modern infrastructure is inadequate, so new schools, universities, hospitals, parks, roads, fire stations, buses, and government offices would be needed in short order. Since space for new facilities is finite, citizens would be forced to live in a far more congested environment. As these poor immigrants soon outnumber native Britons, they would discover that democracy can address their needs. The nation’s wealth and good jobs would be concentrated among the native born, so laws are passed to raise taxes and share the wealth, and to allow newly arrived minorities a fair share of good jobs, even if they are less qualified. This has already occurred in the USA, which accepts more legal immigrants each year than all of Europe, and explains America’s stronger GDP growth.”
    __________________

    • Replies: @Wade
    @Carlton Meyer


    On the positive side, corporations would see large increases in profits as labor costs plunge. More people mean more economic activity, so GDP surges.
     
    I think you are overly optimistic on even this point. Remember the example, hackneyed by liberals for a very long time, of Henry Ford and Model-T's. Ford understood that one of the biggest buyers of the Model-T would be the workers themselves and so he needed to pay them enough that they could afford to buy it. I always thought the economic logic of this was circular and so I didn't buy into it. However, in the case of mass-immigration this starts to seem like viable logic. The "structure of production" has evolved to service a local economy of consumers of a certain level of wealth and productivity. But immigrants from, say, Somali aren't productive enough to grant them an income level high enough to sustain the economy as we know it. These people would mostly become an economic burden.
  108. @anonymous
    "How would America evolve under open borders?"

    Wouldn't it be like all living together in one big very obnoxious airport? Doesn't everybody want to live in the Los Vegas or LA airport? Just wait for the announcements to tell you what to do.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Mr. Anon, @Jeff77450

    Very good point. First world countries are becoming a lot like airports: you’re surrounded by a lot of strange foreigners you neither know nor like, you have to spend a lot of money to avoid the diversity, you are exposed to a wide variety of diseases, and you are subject to an arbitrary, intrusive, and useless security regime.

  109. @neutral
    @Harry Baldwin

    The gatekeepers of the jews are the jews. Unlike the other nonsense like Caitlyn or gay marriage, nobody would dare try call themselves a jew. Imagine for a moment 10 million Nigerians declared themselves jewish and wanted to move to Israel ? This would never be allowed.

    Replies: @SFG

    10 million, yes, that would never be allowed. If some Italian guy here tries to pass himself off, he might get away with it.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @SFG

    I wonder just how many Russians get away with it in Israel.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  110. @Sunbeam
    @Chang

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Sailer has discussed this several times. But aside from sites like this, has it ever been discussed by anyone? The elites are more capable than most of understanding what graphs mean. So what kind of discussions happens behind closed doors? Do they toe the ideology line?

    To me it seems like common sense. If you have surplus population in one place that essentially doesn't have much to do, or made the poor choice not to be born in a connected family... of course they go somewhere else if they perceive that to be a better situation and they are allowed to.

    Things like oceans used to be barriers. But now unless unless you actively stop them, nothing is a barrier. Obviously it helps to have people that went ahead and established communities.

    But what stops it other than controlling Immigration, and in the end with force whether by border guards, or police and deportation? I think a fence would work with Mexico, but if you aren't going to actively enforce things it will be as useless as some pundits claim.

    But again what stops this sort of thing? I'd imagine that if Australia said tomorrow that they would allow unlimited immigration from China, they could double their population in a year. My take is that you could easily find 20 or 25 million Chinese that would go there cold out of their 1.3 billion plus people. And it's actually easier than that, since there is some Chinese presence there already, and it's not like China isn't close as things work now.

    And the same story with the US. I'm not from California, but from reading this site, if things don't change we will have a Mexican/Chinese West Coast with the Chinese playing the same role they did in lots of southeast Asia countries. Heck we could probably get millions of Chinese trying to buy plane tickets at the same time if we rubberstamped visas for them.

    But we talk about things like this all the time here. All these guys, let's just lump them all together and call them "elites" no matter the party or ideology, they have to know all this.

    So what is the end game? I've always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn't exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing. Or you think that all the new immigrants are just standard issue white people behaviorally, just new faces, so things will be as they always were.

    So do they just think it will never come to that? They totally believe their own arguments at face value with no cynicism? What?

    Replies: @Anon, @ben tillman, @Dew, @n/a

    So what is the end game? I’ve always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn’t exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous.

    It’s simple to state such an argument, but it’s even easier to point out that the future USA you envision is much like the present Mexico or Brazil, which were constructed largely by Jews. Why do you presume to know better than they what is good for them?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ben tillman

    " ... much like the present Mexico or Brazil, which were constructed largely by Jews."

    Is this true?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @MQ

  111. @Harry Baldwin
    @Anonym

    How would Judaism evolve under open admission to the tribe?

    Who are the gatekeepers of the tribe? What prevents you from identifying as a Jew? I think it would be a lot easier than what Shaun King or Rachel Dolezal pulled off. You could even change your name or say only your mother was Jewish.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @SFG, @neutral, @Big Bill, @pyrrhus, @Jefferson, @Steve Sailer

    Christopher Hitchens’ great-great-grandmother was Jewish, so he decided he was Jewish.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    @Steve Sailer

    I thought his mum (who committed suicide) was Jewish.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  112. @SFG
    @neutral

    10 million, yes, that would never be allowed. If some Italian guy here tries to pass himself off, he might get away with it.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    I wonder just how many Russians get away with it in Israel.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @silviosilver

    Israel is different. The religious authorities require documentary proof of maternal line ancestral Jewishness that some pure Jews can't even provide as the Israeli Orthodox rabbinate will not accept Reform or Conservative Jewish religious affiliation as evidence.

    Replies: @silviosilver

  113. @ben tillman
    @Sunbeam


    So what is the end game? I’ve always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn’t exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous.
     
    It's simple to state such an argument, but it's even easier to point out that the future USA you envision is much like the present Mexico or Brazil, which were constructed largely by Jews. Why do you presume to know better than they what is good for them?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    ” … much like the present Mexico or Brazil, which were constructed largely by Jews.”

    Is this true?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Commenter Ben Tillman has made many claims of this nature over the years but has never provided any proof.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @MQ
    @Anonymous

    The whole point of anti-semitism is that it's a giant conspiracy theory that lets you blame everything in the world you don't like on Jews. So, he doesn't like Mexico and Brazil, the conclusion is obvious...

  114. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    @Sunbeam

    My FIL, a Queens-horn Jew with a decidedly vocal anti-minority streak, made his money in a cash-only home goods business in the ghetto. He's out of it now. My wife (his step-daughter) and I saw him recently and told him of the impending Fair Housing regulations coming from HUD to forcibly integrate white neighborhoods. After arguing that we were crazy, he finally relented and said, "well, I don't really care, it doesn't effect me."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    He’s old. I’m an under-50 Jew, and I fervently hope that the Congressional Republicans defund HUD to prevent the Fair Housing regulations from being imposed. Stanley Kurtz, a middle-aged Jewish guy who is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and writes for National Review, has been one of the most strident critics of the Fair Housing regs, devoting a book and several recent articles to them.

  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “To me it seems like common sense. If you have surplus population in one place that essentially doesn’t have much to do, or made the poor choice not to be born in a connected family… of course they go somewhere else if they perceive that to be a better situation and they are allowed to.”

    Maybe part of the point of open borders and the one world nonsense is that non-Africans can go take over African countries without such an action being called colonialism. Instead, it would simply be the natural outcome of a worldwide meritocracy at work.

  116. @Anon
    @Harry Baldwin

    I bet if you asked 100 Jews in the NYC MSA if Trump was Jewish, more than half would say yes. They assume any NYer that pushy and rich must be.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    He’s mentioned that he’s Presbyterian and attends church in interviews. His physical appearance would also be an outlier among Jews.

  117. @silviosilver
    @SFG

    I wonder just how many Russians get away with it in Israel.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Israel is different. The religious authorities require documentary proof of maternal line ancestral Jewishness that some pure Jews can’t even provide as the Israeli Orthodox rabbinate will not accept Reform or Conservative Jewish religious affiliation as evidence.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Anonymous

    Yes, I know. But that matters more for things like marriage. The standards for getting into the country are, perhaps surprisingly, much less stringent.

  118. @Anonymous
    @ben tillman

    " ... much like the present Mexico or Brazil, which were constructed largely by Jews."

    Is this true?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @MQ

    Commenter Ben Tillman has made many claims of this nature over the years but has never provided any proof.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Anonymous


    Commenter Ben Tillman has made many claims of this nature over the years but has never provided any proof.
     
    You know better than that. I've gone through a number of sources right here at this website.

    For instance, a conference at Brown University in 1997 was discussed in the NYT:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/29/science/jewish-voyagers-to-the-new-world-emerging-from-history-s-mists.html

    Some notes:

    The chief reason for years of oversight, scholars agreed, had to do with definition: virtually all Jews playing a significant role in the earliest development of the New World were involuntary converts, known interchangeably as New Christians, Conversos or Marranos. They had been coerced into conversion in the bloody period of persecution and elimination of Judaism in Spain and Portugal at the close of the 15th century.

    No wonder the bright prospects of a newly discovered faraway land an ocean away from persecution and filled with untold riches provoked a heavy wave of Jewish migration. The trade potential was especially appealing to these Iberian or Sephardic Jews, expert international traders since the Middle Ages, when they had been a significant presence throughout the Mediterranean.

    Conference presentations were dotted with colorful stories. Consider that of the covert Jewish Conquistador Alonso de Avila. He first enlists in the army of Hernando Cortes — as a bookkeeper. In appreciation for accounting services rendered, he is then made the first mayor of the newly created city of Veracruz. But the glory is fleeting. He is arrested as a relapsed Jew by the Mexican Inquisition, accused of keeping a crucifix under his writing table and stepping on it — a common but spurious charge, said Dr. Eva Alexandra Uchmany of the Universidad Nacional in Mexico, who told the story.

    Other Iberian Inquisition practices gave these migrations a further boost. Dr. Geraldo Pieroni, professor of history at the University of Brasilia, told how deportation to Brazil was a customary sentence meted out by the Portuguese Inquisition in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries.

    Dr. Anita Novinsky, a professor of history at the University of San Paulo, estimated that in the region around Rio de Janeiro and the state of Bahia, New Christians constituted 20 percent of the European population by the 17th and 18th centuries; the number rose to 50 percent in the Paraiba region near Recife, the core of the lucrative sugar trade.

    Today, she said, so many Brazilians are eager to retrace their family lineages that organizations are forming for people who believe they come from New Christian stock and want to reclaim their Jewish ancestry. It is known in Spanish as ”la sangre llama” (the blood is calling), said Mordechai Arbell, a former Israeli ambassador to Colombia, Panama and Haiti, and a specialist on Caribbean Jewry. The first 23 Jews to arrive in New York Harbor, in September 1654, scholars noted, were Brazilians descended from New Christians who returned to Judaism.

    By the early 18th century, half the European population of Suriname, then a territory of the Netherlands, was Jewish, reported Dr. Wim Klooster, a Dutch historian. In Suriname, they could come out of the religious closet, having won freedom of worship under the more tolerant Dutch. They were considered so important to the economic well-being of Suriname that they were given the right ”to labor on Sundays.” A thriving agricultural village on the Suriname River in the early 1700′s was called Joden Savanne (Jewish Savannah).

    In Dutch Curacao, Jewish importance to the commercial viability of the settlement was deemed sufficient to allow Jewish schools to stay open on Sunday. Jewish ships plying the Atlantic carried such names as the Mazel Tov or Bekeerde Jood (converted Jew), Dr. Klooster said.

    The researchers said Jewish success resulted mainly from tight family networks, which created what were essentially international corporations. These emerged as other family members, also under constant jeopardy from Inquisition spies, sought refuge in the more tolerant societies of Amsterdam, western France and London.

    ***
    One measure of their success, scholars noted, was constant accusations of unfair competition and of practicing black arts through the use of secret signs and symbols; Judeo-Spanish was often written using Hebrew characters. Another was the arrival of the Inquisition in the New World. ”A Castillian of pure stock has not a ghost of a show against these Portuguese,” one participant testified in a Peruvian Inquisition trial, according to Dr. Irene Silverblatt, a cultural anthropologist at Duke University.
     
  119. @Anonymous
    @silviosilver

    Israel is different. The religious authorities require documentary proof of maternal line ancestral Jewishness that some pure Jews can't even provide as the Israeli Orthodox rabbinate will not accept Reform or Conservative Jewish religious affiliation as evidence.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    Yes, I know. But that matters more for things like marriage. The standards for getting into the country are, perhaps surprisingly, much less stringent.

  120. @Sunbeam
    @Chang

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Sailer has discussed this several times. But aside from sites like this, has it ever been discussed by anyone? The elites are more capable than most of understanding what graphs mean. So what kind of discussions happens behind closed doors? Do they toe the ideology line?

    To me it seems like common sense. If you have surplus population in one place that essentially doesn't have much to do, or made the poor choice not to be born in a connected family... of course they go somewhere else if they perceive that to be a better situation and they are allowed to.

    Things like oceans used to be barriers. But now unless unless you actively stop them, nothing is a barrier. Obviously it helps to have people that went ahead and established communities.

    But what stops it other than controlling Immigration, and in the end with force whether by border guards, or police and deportation? I think a fence would work with Mexico, but if you aren't going to actively enforce things it will be as useless as some pundits claim.

    But again what stops this sort of thing? I'd imagine that if Australia said tomorrow that they would allow unlimited immigration from China, they could double their population in a year. My take is that you could easily find 20 or 25 million Chinese that would go there cold out of their 1.3 billion plus people. And it's actually easier than that, since there is some Chinese presence there already, and it's not like China isn't close as things work now.

    And the same story with the US. I'm not from California, but from reading this site, if things don't change we will have a Mexican/Chinese West Coast with the Chinese playing the same role they did in lots of southeast Asia countries. Heck we could probably get millions of Chinese trying to buy plane tickets at the same time if we rubberstamped visas for them.

    But we talk about things like this all the time here. All these guys, let's just lump them all together and call them "elites" no matter the party or ideology, they have to know all this.

    So what is the end game? I've always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn't exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing. Or you think that all the new immigrants are just standard issue white people behaviorally, just new faces, so things will be as they always were.

    So do they just think it will never come to that? They totally believe their own arguments at face value with no cynicism? What?

    Replies: @Anon, @ben tillman, @Dew, @n/a

    There are several measures that can be made to weaken the African population bomb. Whoever the elites are, they have to power to do this.

    1.) Abortion
    2.) Sterilization
    3.) Feminism
    4.) Promotion of anti-traditional family values (basically SWPL “values” that lower birthrates)
    5.) Encouraging no more than two children per couple.

    Also if we going to keep bringing immigrants why not try to exclude the men at least? They are ones committing most of the atrocities both in their homelands and in their new areas. Seriously, many of those guys on the boats sure as hell aren’t refugees. They are opportunists.

    Why not only bring in women and children, like how Uruguay did with their Syrian immigrants? Much easier to handle.

    https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/uruguay-wants-only-women-and-children-syrian-refugees-men-are-too-violent/

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Dew


    Also if we going to keep bringing immigrants why not try to exclude the men at least?
     
    The women will bring the kids, which just defers the violence for a generation. It'd be just as difficult to pass as an outright immigration moratorium, imo, and for the same reason: it incorrectly assumes that the interests of people on the receiving end actually matter.
    , @Anonymous
    @Dew


    Why not only bring in women and children, like how Uruguay did with their Syrian immigrants? Much easier to handle.
     
    That sounds great. More single mothers needing welfare and more children raised without fathers.

    How about if we just go with an immigration moratorium instead?
  121. @Dew
    @Sunbeam

    There are several measures that can be made to weaken the African population bomb. Whoever the elites are, they have to power to do this.

    1.) Abortion
    2.) Sterilization
    3.) Feminism
    4.) Promotion of anti-traditional family values (basically SWPL "values" that lower birthrates)
    5.) Encouraging no more than two children per couple.

    Also if we going to keep bringing immigrants why not try to exclude the men at least? They are ones committing most of the atrocities both in their homelands and in their new areas. Seriously, many of those guys on the boats sure as hell aren't refugees. They are opportunists.

    Why not only bring in women and children, like how Uruguay did with their Syrian immigrants? Much easier to handle.

    https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/uruguay-wants-only-women-and-children-syrian-refugees-men-are-too-violent/

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Anonymous

    Also if we going to keep bringing immigrants why not try to exclude the men at least?

    The women will bring the kids, which just defers the violence for a generation. It’d be just as difficult to pass as an outright immigration moratorium, imo, and for the same reason: it incorrectly assumes that the interests of people on the receiving end actually matter.

  122. @Dew
    @Sunbeam

    There are several measures that can be made to weaken the African population bomb. Whoever the elites are, they have to power to do this.

    1.) Abortion
    2.) Sterilization
    3.) Feminism
    4.) Promotion of anti-traditional family values (basically SWPL "values" that lower birthrates)
    5.) Encouraging no more than two children per couple.

    Also if we going to keep bringing immigrants why not try to exclude the men at least? They are ones committing most of the atrocities both in their homelands and in their new areas. Seriously, many of those guys on the boats sure as hell aren't refugees. They are opportunists.

    Why not only bring in women and children, like how Uruguay did with their Syrian immigrants? Much easier to handle.

    https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/uruguay-wants-only-women-and-children-syrian-refugees-men-are-too-violent/

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Anonymous

    Why not only bring in women and children, like how Uruguay did with their Syrian immigrants? Much easier to handle.

    That sounds great. More single mothers needing welfare and more children raised without fathers.

    How about if we just go with an immigration moratorium instead?

  123. @Priss Factor
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/23/baby-crisis-europe-brink-depopulation-disaster

    Poor European nations lose their native populations to richer nations. And migrants don't want to stay there either and move on. Both go to richer nations like Germany, UK, and Sweden that do see a population surplus. But that means foreigners are taking over.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You notice that ‘The Guardian’ chooses to publish this piece right now – so that it boosts the ‘case’ for bringing in more ‘migrants’.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    @Anonymous

    Yup.

    Guardian is for fighting fire by pouring more gasoline.

    It is Retardian.

    But David Camoron allows 300,000 immigrants a year.

  124. @silviosilver
    @Anon


    The math of third world breeding, lack of jobs, and the desire to emigrate to better-run countries is cold, hard, and implacable.
     
    It's not really a problem of generalized third world breeding. It's a problem of specifically black African overbreeding. Aside from black Africa and a couple of Arab countries, the rest of the world is either below, at, or fast converging towards replacement fertility.

    Now, black Africa is and has been reducing its fertility, but in comparison to other countries that transitioned from high fertility to low fertility, it's doing it painfully slowly. At this point, a doubling of their population is baked into the cake, and a tripling is very, very likely. But perhaps, if we're lucky, we can avoid a quadrupling. Implication: big trouble up ahead.

    Replies: @5371

    [the rest of the world is either below, at, or fast converging towards replacement fertility]

    No, this vastly overstates the case.

    [black Africa is and has been reducing its fertility]

    Apart from the far south, no it isn’t.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @5371


    No, this vastly overstates the case.
     
    Let's look at some of the big countries, 1990 and 2012, World Bank data.

    China 2.51, 1.66
    India 3.88, 2.51
    Indonesia 3.12, 2.37
    Brazil 2.81, 1.81
    Mexico 3.38, 2.22
    Egypt 4.35, 2.81
    Iran 4.82, 1.92

    I can't bothered listing any more, but anyone interested can look up the same data and decide whether I'm "vastly overstating" the case or not.

    Apart from the far south, no it isn’t.
     
    Same dataset,

    Sub-Saharan Africa [Developing only] 6.63, 5.11

    Evidence that it's not only the "far south"

    Ghana 5.73, 3.92
    Kenya 6.04, 4.46
    Senegal 6.63, 4.98

    Replies: @5371

  125. @Wilkey
    @iSteveFan

    Has Japan ever had an attack by an Islamic terrorist? Has South Korea? Taiwan?

    Replies: @Mark Green

    As far as I know, neither Japan, China or Korea have ever been attacked by a Muslim terrorist. Why? These Asian nations are not interfering in the political affairs of the Arab world nor are they shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Mark Green

    Your facts are mistaken; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack. Is Thailand shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel? Is India shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel? Both of them have substantial Muslim terrorism issues. There are many more muslims outside the arab world than in it.

    Replies: @IA

    , @Anonymous Nephew
    @Mark Green

    China have their own indigenous Muslims - the Uighur and Kirghiz of the far West - a cowboy country all of its own.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_2014_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_attack

  126. @5371
    @silviosilver

    [the rest of the world is either below, at, or fast converging towards replacement fertility]

    No, this vastly overstates the case.

    [black Africa is and has been reducing its fertility]

    Apart from the far south, no it isn't.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    No, this vastly overstates the case.

    Let’s look at some of the big countries, 1990 and 2012, World Bank data.

    China 2.51, 1.66
    India 3.88, 2.51
    Indonesia 3.12, 2.37
    Brazil 2.81, 1.81
    Mexico 3.38, 2.22
    Egypt 4.35, 2.81
    Iran 4.82, 1.92

    I can’t bothered listing any more, but anyone interested can look up the same data and decide whether I’m “vastly overstating” the case or not.

    Apart from the far south, no it isn’t.

    Same dataset,

    Sub-Saharan Africa [Developing only] 6.63, 5.11

    Evidence that it’s not only the “far south”

    Ghana 5.73, 3.92
    Kenya 6.04, 4.46
    Senegal 6.63, 4.98

    • Replies: @5371
    @silviosilver

    That data is free invention, if you had the ability to understand census results and the initiative to look them up you would know it.

  127. @Mark Green
    @Wilkey

    As far as I know, neither Japan, China or Korea have ever been attacked by a Muslim terrorist. Why? These Asian nations are not interfering in the political affairs of the Arab world nor are they shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous Nephew

    Your facts are mistaken; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack. Is Thailand shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel? Is India shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel? Both of them have substantial Muslim terrorism issues. There are many more muslims outside the arab world than in it.

    • Replies: @IA
    @kaganovitch

    You beat me to it. Lived in India. Jihad attacks are only reported in western media when too big to ignore.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  128. @Mr. Anon
    @27 year old

    edit- please spare us the tactical porn about how easy it would be for 6 rednecks with deer rifles to blah blah blah. what i want to hear you explain is how you expect these 6 guys to meet, decide to act, ensure none of them rats to the FBI, recruit 6 more guys, decide to act again, etc, etc."

    And why do you want to hear this? Do you work for the FBI? The SPLC? Why should anyone tell you jack?

    Replies: @27 year old

    Not at all, I’d like all of the guys who post their vague revenge fantasies to put a little thought into how ridiculous they sound, and hopefully stop doing it altogether.

  129. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:
    @Anonymous
    @Priss Factor

    You notice that 'The Guardian' chooses to publish this piece right now - so that it boosts the 'case' for bringing in more 'migrants'.

    Replies: @Priss Factor

    Yup.

    Guardian is for fighting fire by pouring more gasoline.

    It is Retardian.

    But David Camoron allows 300,000 immigrants a year.

  130. Nathan Smith is honest and eyes wide open that this will likely involve dramatic, fundamental, and permanent changes to host societies and that the grimmest most pessimistic expectations will come true as well as the benefits. He also admits that his personal predictions have changed a lot in the last couple of years and current predictions are unstable and wildly speculative.

    Why don’t we conduct these mega experiments on failed states that people want to flee rather than on the jewels of human civilization that people flock to?

    OT: Is anyone organizing Friends of Steve Sailer meetups? I’d love to have face to face conversations with the commenters on these threads.

  131. @Sunbeam
    @Brutusale

    "Or this, which predated Snow Crash by a few years.

    http://www.amazon.com/Little-Heroes-Norman-Spinrad/dp/1490399429

    Zonies and people kibble."

    Wow for some reason I didn't think Spinrad wrote anything past the 70's.

    But checking out your link:

    "The City teems with Uzi-toting enforcers, kibble-munching streeties and wire heads plugged into the latest electronic high. And somewhere along the line, rock and roll has lost its soul — or rather sold it to a [b]megacorporation that churns out synthesized hits with all the passion of the market research reports that dictate their demographic parameters.[/b]"

    Expect for the Kibble and in the US at least they don't seem to be fond of Uzi's that's pretty prescient. Kibble might actually be healthier than hot pockets and some of the other crap that the "proles" eat though.

    "Spinrad mined media hype and manipulation to fine effect in his early novel, Bug Jack Barron. Now 18 years later, he has another go with this near future story of the conglomerate MUZIK's desire to substitute APs (artificial personalities) for its troublesome rock stars."

    I've had the same idea for years. Most people never see their idols in person. Maybe in a concert or something, but that's about it. So why do they need to really exist?

    You can say the same thing for actors. Exactly when it is possible I do not know, but I expect to one day see enough computing power at a reasonable price such that you could render whatever you wanted on screen. You could substitute actors at first, but eventually you can render everything.

    I don't know that there will be film or television using live actors in the long run. But stage will probably survive, in manner akin to Vinyl and 8 tracks and cassettes.

    Actually with anime you could make the case we are already there, at least with some market segments. And these kids are going to grow up. Heck we have enough of a critical mass that animated cartoon movies for adults would be viable, and not just as oddities like Wizards. I know that geek culture doesn't have problem one with animation.

    I really don't expect the computing power I described above to take that long. Ten years maybe tops, guess that is my Friedman unit.

    But think of it: no prima donnas, no rehabs, no emo, they show up for work sober. And most of all they don't need a paycheck.

    You just know the glimmers of this are warming the hackles of studio execs as we type at each other.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    William Gibson has been mining the “synthespian” vein in a couple novels, too.

    I think Little Heroes, though, was Spinrad thinking that the MTV video craze would be forever. Musicians need to perform live.

  132. @silviosilver
    @5371


    No, this vastly overstates the case.
     
    Let's look at some of the big countries, 1990 and 2012, World Bank data.

    China 2.51, 1.66
    India 3.88, 2.51
    Indonesia 3.12, 2.37
    Brazil 2.81, 1.81
    Mexico 3.38, 2.22
    Egypt 4.35, 2.81
    Iran 4.82, 1.92

    I can't bothered listing any more, but anyone interested can look up the same data and decide whether I'm "vastly overstating" the case or not.

    Apart from the far south, no it isn’t.
     
    Same dataset,

    Sub-Saharan Africa [Developing only] 6.63, 5.11

    Evidence that it's not only the "far south"

    Ghana 5.73, 3.92
    Kenya 6.04, 4.46
    Senegal 6.63, 4.98

    Replies: @5371

    That data is free invention, if you had the ability to understand census results and the initiative to look them up you would know it.

  133. @Carlton Meyer
    The title should say devolve, not evolve. The linked articles are naive, written by people who have never lived among the desperate hoards around the world. Here is what I wrote back in 2008:

    https://donvandergriff.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/from-g2mil-borders-remain-open-what-we-dont-need-is-more-people/

    Here is the key part:

    "Imagine if Great Britain opened its borders to all the world’s peoples. Enterprising ship owners would soon find profitable cargo in the form of human migrants. They could ship people en masse to Britain for maybe $100 a head. Millions of refugees would board ships in India, Pakistan, Iraq, China, the Philippines, and all of Africa for the land of riches. Thousands would file off docks at British seaports each day with no money, no food, few skills, and no grasp of English.

    The population of British cities would double within four years. Schools, hospitals, and prisons would be overrun. Parks and sidewalks would teem with homeless refugees desperate for food. Crime rates would soar as homeowners erect high fences to keep out squatters, scavengers, and criminals. Millions of Britons would lose their jobs as immigrants are hired for a sterling a day. If mass immigration continues, the thousands of refugees who arrive each day would find themselves herded into massive refugee camps. These people want to work and become Britons, but there simply isn’t room.

    On the positive side, corporations would see large increases in profits as labor costs plunge. More people mean more economic activity, so GDP surges. Private security firm work would explode as every small business and house needs a security guard. Since governments must double in size to accommodate this larger population, government officials gain rapid promotions and spending power, boosting GDP further. This is because GDP is not a measure of prosperity, but activity. Therefore, mass immigration is good for GDP, as well as smoking, hurricanes, earthquakes, crime, automobile accidents, and wars.

    “The free movement of labor” into Britain would require a sharp rise in taxes to accommodate immigrants, even if they all find employment. This is because the existing modern infrastructure is inadequate, so new schools, universities, hospitals, parks, roads, fire stations, buses, and government offices would be needed in short order. Since space for new facilities is finite, citizens would be forced to live in a far more congested environment. As these poor immigrants soon outnumber native Britons, they would discover that democracy can address their needs. The nation’s wealth and good jobs would be concentrated among the native born, so laws are passed to raise taxes and share the wealth, and to allow newly arrived minorities a fair share of good jobs, even if they are less qualified. This has already occurred in the USA, which accepts more legal immigrants each year than all of Europe, and explains America’s stronger GDP growth."
    __________________

    Replies: @Wade

    On the positive side, corporations would see large increases in profits as labor costs plunge. More people mean more economic activity, so GDP surges.

    I think you are overly optimistic on even this point. Remember the example, hackneyed by liberals for a very long time, of Henry Ford and Model-T’s. Ford understood that one of the biggest buyers of the Model-T would be the workers themselves and so he needed to pay them enough that they could afford to buy it. I always thought the economic logic of this was circular and so I didn’t buy into it. However, in the case of mass-immigration this starts to seem like viable logic. The “structure of production” has evolved to service a local economy of consumers of a certain level of wealth and productivity. But immigrants from, say, Somali aren’t productive enough to grant them an income level high enough to sustain the economy as we know it. These people would mostly become an economic burden.

  134. @27 year old
    (even) Lower wages, (even) lower quality of life, (even) fewer white families with (even)fewer children, etc, etc. Duh. It would go on indefinitely, just getting worse and worse because we're not going to do anything to stop it. Eventually we get to a boot stamping on a human face forever, with bonus of mass scale sex slavery.

    I expect this thread is going to have a few of the typical comments like "this will eventually provoke a white (violent) backlash" "when the saxon begins to hate, blah blah blah"

    I think these comments are basically impotent rage/wishful thinking from old guys. I think whites are going to keep trying to run away, and then we'll basically die off.

    If you're one of those guys posting that stuff, please include your theories on how this "backlash" 1. starts and 2. develops into anything other than occasional lone wolf freakouts, i.e. how is it organized?

    edit- please spare us the tactical porn about how easy it would be for 6 rednecks with deer rifles to blah blah blah. what i want to hear you explain is how you expect these 6 guys to meet, decide to act, ensure none of them rats to the FBI, recruit 6 more guys, decide to act again, etc, etc.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Jeff77450

    Well said and sadly I must agree.

  135. @anonymous
    "How would America evolve under open borders?"

    Wouldn't it be like all living together in one big very obnoxious airport? Doesn't everybody want to live in the Los Vegas or LA airport? Just wait for the announcements to tell you what to do.

    Replies: @silviosilver, @Mr. Anon, @Jeff77450

    Well said.

  136. To successfully deal with the evil of mass immigration, one must have understanding of why it’s ongoing. Part of that understanding is the interest of capital in low-wage labor. I think you have that right; it might even be the main factor. But capital needs social stability. Is it really in capital’s interests to welcome masses of migrants, many of whom don’t even enter the labor force? Why do our rulers do it? The world wants to know.

    Much of the mass migration comes from areas despoiled by American militarism. And if not the actually military, the minions of the “war on drugs.” Or economic policy: NAFTA damaged Mexican agriculture, hence the northward migration of agricultural labor.

    I’m certainly not saying that the cause *justifies* the practice. American working people should not be subjected to more suffering because of the international destructiveness of their overlords. But I wonder whether, under conditions where people the world over are driven from their homelands, it is even possible to control migration.

    Perhaps the main force for mass migration is U.S. imperialism.

  137. @kaganovitch
    @Mark Green

    Your facts are mistaken; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack. Is Thailand shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel? Is India shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel? Both of them have substantial Muslim terrorism issues. There are many more muslims outside the arab world than in it.

    Replies: @IA

    You beat me to it. Lived in India. Jihad attacks are only reported in western media when too big to ignore.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @IA


    Jihad attacks are only reported in western media when too big to ignore.

     

    Too true. Few Americans/western Europeans quite grasp the ongoing, serious nature of the jihad problems in Xinjiang (which have spread to other parts of China, including an attack earlier this year in Guangzhou, which is far, far from the Muslim areas in NW China), Thailand, the Philippines, etc. But these kinds of stories often get brief -- or no -- coverage in the mainstream western press.
  138. @Anonymous
    @ben tillman

    " ... much like the present Mexico or Brazil, which were constructed largely by Jews."

    Is this true?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @MQ

    The whole point of anti-semitism is that it’s a giant conspiracy theory that lets you blame everything in the world you don’t like on Jews. So, he doesn’t like Mexico and Brazil, the conclusion is obvious…

  139. @Anonymous
    @International Jew

    Nathan Smith is arguing all is lost anyway so why not just jettison pretensions. One could make the same argument at any point in our history.

    The adult view is that all Republics have a limited lifespan. Angry children fantasize about flushing the world down the toilet.

    After Rome fell there were many great societies in Italy. Modern Italy is a pretty great place to live.

    We don't live in the authentic America obviously. The Founders would've hanged FDR for confiscating gold. Wilson for creating the Fed etc etc etc. It is what it is.

    Read the final section:

    I’m not so fond of democracy that my loyalty to a regime would depend very greatly on its democratic character, but I am very, very fond of telling the truth, and I can have no respect for, and no loyalty to, judges who, in decreeing gay marriage, pretend that they’re interpreting the Constitution. Modern constitutional law is a lot like the Catholic Church’s theology of indulgences in the 15th and early 16th centuries. It makes very little sense, and every critical thinker more or less feels that it’s a disgraceful travesty, but people are afraid to challenge it as aggressively as reason demands, because it underpins the order of society. Reams and libraries are dedicated to rationalizing it, precisely because it’s rationally indefensible, yet is a crucial currency of power. And yes, I’d like to see modern constitutional law immolated in a kind of Lutheran Reformation, and would gladly pay a high price in chaos to see the dragon slain. Thanks to my low opinion of the US constitutional regime as it currently exists is one reason, I can contemplate with very little distress the immigration of a billion or so people from all over the world, unschooled in the peculiar mythology of early 21st-century American democracy and its ever-more-irrational cult of equality.

    Replies: @IA

    Angry children fantasize about flushing the world down the toilet.

    So you or Cowen are saying invite a billion Muslims and blacks into European lands?

  140. @Mark Green
    @Wilkey

    As far as I know, neither Japan, China or Korea have ever been attacked by a Muslim terrorist. Why? These Asian nations are not interfering in the political affairs of the Arab world nor are they shipping boatloads of money and weapons to Israel.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Anonymous Nephew

    China have their own indigenous Muslims – the Uighur and Kirghiz of the far West – a cowboy country all of its own.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_2014_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_attack

  141. @Steve Sailer
    @Harry Baldwin

    Christopher Hitchens' great-great-grandmother was Jewish, so he decided he was Jewish.

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew

    I thought his mum (who committed suicide) was Jewish.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous Nephew

    The Hitchens' mum was 1/8th Jewish.

    Replies: @n/a

  142. Open borders libertarianism has to be the spergiest ideology ever. Anyone with even the fainest whiff of understanding of actual humans, knows that the huddled masses brought in by the open border, would quickly be grinding away at any libertarian strands that existed, much less allow of a libertarian utopia. The tendency would be political allocation of … *everything*. Keeping any libertarian strands intact would require an authoritarian police state. And those are never dedicated to libertarian principles, they serve the interest–and do political allocation for–their masters.

    Open borders libertarianism is really a non-sequitur, a self contradiction. An ideology whose implementation guarantees its own destruction.

    This is really the ideology of folks who have an IQ and “education” sufficient for neurons to fire thoughts like “raises efficiency of allocation of labor”, but know absolutely *nothing* of human beings.

  143. @Pat Casey
    The criminal justice system and traffic court would have to be automated, which might be in the possible realm, if every cop wears a camera, or every cop is a camera, cause Judges are generally useless, or unjust grandstanders anyways. Right now every public defender in this nation is overloaded by an order of magnitude, and every jail is overcrowded and understaffed, basically every single one. Right to a speedy trial is not enforced whatsoever. Every lawyer could become a secretary entering data, deservedly. When was the last additional courthouse built in this country? I bet a few a year, maybe. The criminal justice system, if the USA were healthy, would be about three times bigger than it is today. Open the boarders and the beaners would be as Reagan said of the Irish: we built this country, down to the jails, which we proceeded to fill.

    Replies: @Pat Casey, @MarkinLA

    Try getting the immigrants to pay a fine. Then you have to issue a bench warrant and put them in jail when you catch them.

  144. @e
    @Clyde

    Add short sighted, stupid and subconsciously self-hating.

    Not "self hating, " conscious or subconscious. Prog whites are the most self-loving people on earth. They believe their own shyt, that they and only they can save the black man, and by extension, all people "of color." They believe only their cognitive and financial largess can accomplish that. They enjoy thinking that too. They are actually race realists in that they understand biodiversity; it's just that they're not about to admit it.

    Replies: @Clyde

    You are probably correct!

  145. @Anonymous Nephew
    @Steve Sailer

    I thought his mum (who committed suicide) was Jewish.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The Hitchens’ mum was 1/8th Jewish.

    • Replies: @n/a
    @Steve Sailer

    No, his mother was 3/8 Jewish (Christopher Hitchens's grandmother had one non-Jewish grandparent), so Hitchens is slightly under 20% Jewish genetically.

    Replies: @n/a

  146. Clicking through to the Open Borders website I learned two things I had not previously known.

    One is the claim that the main benefit of a global open borders policy would be a one-off doubling of world GDP, the equivalent of 23 years’ average economic growth. Am I the only one who is content to keep things as they are and wait for 1 January 2038 to dawn?

    The other is that Argentina has had an open borders policy since 1994: indeed the Argentine constitution entrenches the right to migrate as “essential and inalienable to all persons”. If the GDP of Argentina doubled overnight I must have missed it, but perhaps this bad precedent can be put to good use.

    A main reason why the Mediterranean boat people cannot be deported is that the moment they arrive they claim to be fleeing persecution in their country of origin, triggering years of legal obstruction. There could plainly be no obstacle to dumping them on Argentina, a country from which it is virtually impossible to be deported, or better still persuading them to go there voluntarily.

  147. @IA
    @kaganovitch

    You beat me to it. Lived in India. Jihad attacks are only reported in western media when too big to ignore.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Jihad attacks are only reported in western media when too big to ignore.

    Too true. Few Americans/western Europeans quite grasp the ongoing, serious nature of the jihad problems in Xinjiang (which have spread to other parts of China, including an attack earlier this year in Guangzhou, which is far, far from the Muslim areas in NW China), Thailand, the Philippines, etc. But these kinds of stories often get brief — or no — coverage in the mainstream western press.

  148. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous Nephew

    The Hitchens' mum was 1/8th Jewish.

    Replies: @n/a

    No, his mother was 3/8 Jewish (Christopher Hitchens’s grandmother had one non-Jewish grandparent), so Hitchens is slightly under 20% Jewish genetically.

    • Replies: @n/a
    @n/a

    Incidentally, someone who does turn out to be 1/16 Jewish is Whit Stillman (along with his one-time Harvard SDS-member brother). No idea if he or his brother were aware of this or how it influenced their identity.

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2015/08/more-on-student-radicalism-at-harvard.html

    Replies: @5371

  149. @n/a
    @Steve Sailer

    No, his mother was 3/8 Jewish (Christopher Hitchens's grandmother had one non-Jewish grandparent), so Hitchens is slightly under 20% Jewish genetically.

    Replies: @n/a

    Incidentally, someone who does turn out to be 1/16 Jewish is Whit Stillman (along with his one-time Harvard SDS-member brother). No idea if he or his brother were aware of this or how it influenced their identity.

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2015/08/more-on-student-radicalism-at-harvard.html

    • Replies: @5371
    @n/a

    David Cameron and Boris Johnson are more Jewish than that))

  150. n/a says: • Website
    @Sunbeam
    @Chang

    But if the Left decides open the doors to the African Population Bomb – then that could destroy everything. Africa is set to add billions of ppl. If anti-White Progs decide to open the doors, we could see 100M+ African immigrants flood in by 2040.

    Sailer has discussed this several times. But aside from sites like this, has it ever been discussed by anyone? The elites are more capable than most of understanding what graphs mean. So what kind of discussions happens behind closed doors? Do they toe the ideology line?

    To me it seems like common sense. If you have surplus population in one place that essentially doesn't have much to do, or made the poor choice not to be born in a connected family... of course they go somewhere else if they perceive that to be a better situation and they are allowed to.

    Things like oceans used to be barriers. But now unless unless you actively stop them, nothing is a barrier. Obviously it helps to have people that went ahead and established communities.

    But what stops it other than controlling Immigration, and in the end with force whether by border guards, or police and deportation? I think a fence would work with Mexico, but if you aren't going to actively enforce things it will be as useless as some pundits claim.

    But again what stops this sort of thing? I'd imagine that if Australia said tomorrow that they would allow unlimited immigration from China, they could double their population in a year. My take is that you could easily find 20 or 25 million Chinese that would go there cold out of their 1.3 billion plus people. And it's actually easier than that, since there is some Chinese presence there already, and it's not like China isn't close as things work now.

    And the same story with the US. I'm not from California, but from reading this site, if things don't change we will have a Mexican/Chinese West Coast with the Chinese playing the same role they did in lots of southeast Asia countries. Heck we could probably get millions of Chinese trying to buy plane tickets at the same time if we rubberstamped visas for them.

    But we talk about things like this all the time here. All these guys, let's just lump them all together and call them "elites" no matter the party or ideology, they have to know all this.

    So what is the end game? I've always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn't exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing. Or you think that all the new immigrants are just standard issue white people behaviorally, just new faces, so things will be as they always were.

    So do they just think it will never come to that? They totally believe their own arguments at face value with no cynicism? What?

    Replies: @Anon, @ben tillman, @Dew, @n/a

    “So what is the end game? I’ve always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn’t exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing.”

    Earl Raab, writing in 1995, on the Jewish role in promoting non-White immigration:

    An increasing ethnic heterogeneity, as a result of immigration, has made it even more difficult for a political party or mass movement of bigotry to develop. … The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country. We [Jews] have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to bigotry for about half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but the heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it irreversible—and makes our constitutional constraints against bigotry more practical than ever (see here, p. 246)

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/07/joe-klein-immigration-will-save-the-u-s-from-white-racism/

    Also, don’t underestimate the power of spite.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @n/a

    Spite? Naah, they like America, just not the parts of it you do.

    The Earl Raab argument I find infinitely more credible--they're so afraid of Nazis they'll screw up the country to keep them from ever coming to power. It makes sense.

    I agree it is immensely stupid *and* evil, but I don't have any relatives with Sheldon Adelson's ear.

  151. @n/a
    @Sunbeam

    "So what is the end game? I’ve always been skeptical of this replacement argument, I mean if I were Jewish the prospect of a 50% latino US with lots and lots of Chinese and Indians that want the same spots at Harvard I do wouldn’t exactly fill my heart with glee. And it is pretty hard to come up with some Protocols of the Elders of Zion argument that finds that situation advantageous. Unless it is some kind of cut off your nose to spite your face thing."

    Earl Raab, writing in 1995, on the Jewish role in promoting non-White immigration:


    An increasing ethnic heterogeneity, as a result of immigration, has made it even more difficult for a political party or mass movement of bigotry to develop. … The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country. We [Jews] have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to bigotry for about half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but the heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it irreversible—and makes our constitutional constraints against bigotry more practical than ever (see here, p. 246)
     
    www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/07/joe-klein-immigration-will-save-the-u-s-from-white-racism/

    Also, don't underestimate the power of spite.

    Replies: @SFG

    Spite? Naah, they like America, just not the parts of it you do.

    The Earl Raab argument I find infinitely more credible–they’re so afraid of Nazis they’ll screw up the country to keep them from ever coming to power. It makes sense.

    I agree it is immensely stupid *and* evil, but I don’t have any relatives with Sheldon Adelson’s ear.

  152. @grey enlightenment2
    I've read conflicting options: some suggest immigration creates jobs . Other say it doesn't.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @ben tillman, @AnAnon, @iSteveFan, @Anonymous

    We don’t need more people to create more jobs. I’d be happy for the moment just to be able to drive across Los Angeles at Rush Hour (or any other time for that matter).

  153. @n/a
    @n/a

    Incidentally, someone who does turn out to be 1/16 Jewish is Whit Stillman (along with his one-time Harvard SDS-member brother). No idea if he or his brother were aware of this or how it influenced their identity.

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2015/08/more-on-student-radicalism-at-harvard.html

    Replies: @5371

    David Cameron and Boris Johnson are more Jewish than that))

  154. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Commenter Ben Tillman has made many claims of this nature over the years but has never provided any proof.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Commenter Ben Tillman has made many claims of this nature over the years but has never provided any proof.

    You know better than that. I’ve gone through a number of sources right here at this website.

    For instance, a conference at Brown University in 1997 was discussed in the NYT:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/29/science/jewish-voyagers-to-the-new-world-emerging-from-history-s-mists.html

    Some notes:

    The chief reason for years of oversight, scholars agreed, had to do with definition: virtually all Jews playing a significant role in the earliest development of the New World were involuntary converts, known interchangeably as New Christians, Conversos or Marranos. They had been coerced into conversion in the bloody period of persecution and elimination of Judaism in Spain and Portugal at the close of the 15th century.

    No wonder the bright prospects of a newly discovered faraway land an ocean away from persecution and filled with untold riches provoked a heavy wave of Jewish migration. The trade potential was especially appealing to these Iberian or Sephardic Jews, expert international traders since the Middle Ages, when they had been a significant presence throughout the Mediterranean.

    Conference presentations were dotted with colorful stories. Consider that of the covert Jewish Conquistador Alonso de Avila. He first enlists in the army of Hernando Cortes — as a bookkeeper. In appreciation for accounting services rendered, he is then made the first mayor of the newly created city of Veracruz. But the glory is fleeting. He is arrested as a relapsed Jew by the Mexican Inquisition, accused of keeping a crucifix under his writing table and stepping on it — a common but spurious charge, said Dr. Eva Alexandra Uchmany of the Universidad Nacional in Mexico, who told the story.

    Other Iberian Inquisition practices gave these migrations a further boost. Dr. Geraldo Pieroni, professor of history at the University of Brasilia, told how deportation to Brazil was a customary sentence meted out by the Portuguese Inquisition in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries.

    Dr. Anita Novinsky, a professor of history at the University of San Paulo, estimated that in the region around Rio de Janeiro and the state of Bahia, New Christians constituted 20 percent of the European population by the 17th and 18th centuries; the number rose to 50 percent in the Paraiba region near Recife, the core of the lucrative sugar trade.

    Today, she said, so many Brazilians are eager to retrace their family lineages that organizations are forming for people who believe they come from New Christian stock and want to reclaim their Jewish ancestry. It is known in Spanish as ”la sangre llama” (the blood is calling), said Mordechai Arbell, a former Israeli ambassador to Colombia, Panama and Haiti, and a specialist on Caribbean Jewry. The first 23 Jews to arrive in New York Harbor, in September 1654, scholars noted, were Brazilians descended from New Christians who returned to Judaism.

    By the early 18th century, half the European population of Suriname, then a territory of the Netherlands, was Jewish, reported Dr. Wim Klooster, a Dutch historian. In Suriname, they could come out of the religious closet, having won freedom of worship under the more tolerant Dutch. They were considered so important to the economic well-being of Suriname that they were given the right ”to labor on Sundays.” A thriving agricultural village on the Suriname River in the early 1700′s was called Joden Savanne (Jewish Savannah).

    In Dutch Curacao, Jewish importance to the commercial viability of the settlement was deemed sufficient to allow Jewish schools to stay open on Sunday. Jewish ships plying the Atlantic carried such names as the Mazel Tov or Bekeerde Jood (converted Jew), Dr. Klooster said.

    The researchers said Jewish success resulted mainly from tight family networks, which created what were essentially international corporations. These emerged as other family members, also under constant jeopardy from Inquisition spies, sought refuge in the more tolerant societies of Amsterdam, western France and London.

    ***
    One measure of their success, scholars noted, was constant accusations of unfair competition and of practicing black arts through the use of secret signs and symbols; Judeo-Spanish was often written using Hebrew characters. Another was the arrival of the Inquisition in the New World. ”A Castillian of pure stock has not a ghost of a show against these Portuguese,” one participant testified in a Peruvian Inquisition trial, according to Dr. Irene Silverblatt, a cultural anthropologist at Duke University.

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