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How to Use Immigrants to Study Whether BCG Vaccine Is Advantageous
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An idea that has been kicking around for awhile is that differences in the use of the old BCG vaccine for tuberculosis might help explain some of the puzzling differences between countries with seemingly similar populations: e.g., Portugal, where BCG inoculation has been mandatory since 1965, has mostly done better than Spain, where BCG has not been mandatory since 1981.

Obscure details of national vaccination policies might help explain otherwise puzzling national differences in the course of the pandemic. I’m not saying that they do explain it, but they seem like a class of explanations that, like methodological differences in how data are categorized, that might help explain sharp differences between neighboring countries.

Differential COVID-19-attributable mortality and BCG vaccine use in countries

Anita Shet, Debashree Ray, Neelika Malavige, Mathuram Santosham, Naor Bar-Zeev

Abstract
While mortality attributable to COVID-19 has devastated global health systems and economies, striking regional differences have been observed. The Bacille Calmette Guérin (BCG) vaccine has previously been shown to have non-specific protective effects on infections, as well as longterm efficacy against tuberculosis. Using publicly available data we built a simple log-linear regression model to assess the association of BCG use and COVID-19-attributable mortality per 1 million population after adjusting for confounders including country economic status (GDP per capita), and proportion of elderly among the population. The timing of country entry into the pandemic epidemiological trajectory was aligned by plotting time since the 100th reported case. Countries with economies classified as lower-middle-income, upper-middle-income and high income countries (LMIC, UMIC, HIC) had median crude COVID-19 log-mortality of 0.4 (Interquartile Range (IQR) 0.1, 0.4), 0.7 (IQR 0.2, 2.2) and 5.5 (IQR 1.6, 13.9), respectively. COVID-19-attributable mortality among BCG-using countries was 5.8 times lower [95% CI 1.8- 19.0] than in non BCG-using countries. Notwithstanding limitations due to testing constraints in LMICs, case ascertainment bias and a plausible rise of cases as countries progress along the epidemiological trajectory, these analyses provide intriguing observations that urgently warrant mobilization of resources for prospective randomized interventional studies and institution of systematic disease surveillance, particularly in LMICs.

In America, we need to look at the infection rates of immigrants from countries where BCG was mandatory, from countries where it was not mandatory, and children of immigrants born in the US (where it has never been mandatory). It would also be useful to look at immigrants to the US from countries where BCG mandates were changed during living memory: e.g., if Portuguese immigrants born, say, before 1965 have a much higher rate of infection than Portuguese immigrants born after 1965 (or whatever the relevant cutoff date would be if the Portuguese policy was to inoculate not babies but schoolchildren).

Unfortunately, the public health data reporting system appears to have been set up with the intention of obscuring the origins of pandemic patients in order to fulfill the Establishment’s highest priority: Avoiding Stigmatization of the Marginalized. It was assumed that future epidemics would be centered among immigrants, racial minorities, homosexuals, and so forth, and these patterns must be covered up to prevent a Backlash against the morally superior marginalized. Hence, we didn’t have any data by race for many weeks until recently, and we still don’t seem to have any data by national origin or immigration status.

What nobody saw coming was that immigrants might have health advantages over Americans that should be studied to figure out what their homelands did right.

iSteve commenter utu adds:

There are orders of magnitude more Mexicans than Portuguese in the US. Mexico has 95% BCG inoculation coverage. Mexico began its vaccination program in 1951. Comparing Chicanos with Mexican residents in the US should give a large sample to test the BCG hypothesis. However I would not expect that American medical establishment would be interested looking into it.

The BCG World Atlas
http://www.bcgatlas.org/

Hard-hit Ecuador stands out as a Latin American country that no longer has mandatory BCG. Are younger people more at risk in Ecuador than in similar countries like Colombia and Peru?

The BCG World Atlas: A Database of Global BCG Vaccination Policies and Practices
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062527/

But collecting data on immigrants is not a high priority of our elites.

 
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  1. From an anonymous commenter on another thread:

    I was digging through a survey looking to see if latent tuberculosis might have an impact on whether you survive or die from Covid-19. This one was done to determine how much latent TB was in the US in 2011-2012.

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/metrics?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0140881

    It definitely looks like the rates of those with latent TB parallel those who die from Covid-19, both in terms of age and ethnic rates. There’s a larger latent TB rate in foreign-born residents. I’d love to see the Covid-19 death and infections data from immigrants in US hospitals, but there’s no way anyone is going to release that. I bet it’s very high.

    Interesting find: People with diabetes had latent TB at 2 times the rate of those without diabetes. Prediabetics had it at 1.5 times the rates of those without diabetes. We now know that diabetics are more likely to die from Covid-19. I wonder if having an immune system preoccupied with keeping TB in check means it can’t police your gut for bad bacteria properly. And if your immune system is preoccupied trying to keep TB in check, it may be that it can’t fight Covid-19 properly.

    Ethnic rates of latent TB as determined by 2 tests, skin and immune reaction tests:

    Whites: 0.3%
    Black: 3.1% (that’s over 10 times the rates of whites)
    Hispanics: 5.8% (19 times the white rate)
    Asians: 10.3% (34 times the white rate)

    Foreign-born ethnics living in the US population with latent TB:

    Black: 10.5%
    Hispanic: 9.8%
    Asian: 13.2%

    By age bracket:

    6-14: 0.2%
    15-24: 1%
    25-44: 1.9%
    45-64: 3.2%
    over 65: 2.9%

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    Then how are Portuguese immigrants to the US doing in the current epidemic? In Bermuda there is quite a concentration of Azorean Portuguese, so they would be an interesting group to study.

    And why does the UK have such a high rate of COVID-19 infection and deaths when it only stopped giving mandatory BCG about 15 years ago?

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    It is all very interesting. My guess would be that people who have latent TB are more vulnerable to COVID-19, so BCG populations will be a bit less vulnerable. Incidentally Spain stopped giving BCG about the same time as Britain.

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world's population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.

    Another great reason to abolish the WHO, because then we could rest easy as we would not know about how many people have TB.
    , @Sincerity.net
    The scientific method is hampered and perverted, as usual, by what our site calls the #PCGagOrder. As @SteveSailer states repeatedly, data must be omitted, hidden, to make sure that racist truths must not be found.
    @SteveSAiler, I appreciate if we can continue the conversation: you do have my (funny) email address for further contact.
    Our sites (sincerity dot net) claim that this #PCGagOrder, which exists in writing in diverse media ethics codes and police instructions, it the one foundation of all faulty policies, of leftward drifting voting and policies. It is like the atom, the DNA, the fundamental building block of all faulty, misinformed policies.
    Demanding scientific truth (#TrueSpeech), ceaselessly shaming liars, a TruthRevolution.net is the one and only way to return to an enlightened, scientific world with sound policies, and to un-brainwash our 1984-indoctrinated population.
    @SteveSAiler, I appreciate if we can continue the conversation, you do have my (funny) email address for further contact.
    , @epebble

    There’s a larger latent TB rate in foreign-born residents.
     
    Doesn't BCG prevent latent TB?

    Also, how does one explain very similar nearby countries having large differences in death per million statistics? Like Italy vs. Slovenia, Belgium vs. Denmark, Sweden vs. Norway? Is it possible to test if this pattern prevails among immigrants from those countries.
  2. Anita Shet

    Den go to da baffroom.

    • LOL: Coemgen, MEH 0910
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Groan.
  3. The anti-vaxxers won’t believe it, Steve.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    I like to consider myself an intelligent vaxxer, if you may. So, the vaccinations I was given as a child were determined to be necessary on the basis of politically incorrect science. Polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria, etc. Diphtheria is my favorite vaccine since it trains the body to react to and isolate the protein produced by the bacteria, with the effect that pretty much everyone gets diphtheria but in a non-lethal form, since the body is all over the excess-toxic-protein-producing bacteria.

    Measles is an interesting case. Lethal in the 19th and 20th centuries when vaccination became mandated, it's not that threatening to well-fed, well-cared-for populations. It might be a disease that we let healthy young people get so they can get over it.

    Tuberculosis by contrast is a longstanding enemy, and kills people who get it. Maybe we lost focus on the damn thing because it's bacteria, and we have antibiotics. Cue drug-resistant TB, especially amongst immigrants. Maybe we need to add that back to the schedule. Unlikely, because there's no money in using an old vaccine.

    I oppose vaccination for things like chicken pox. It's a bad disease for adults to get, so I could see suggesting it there. The chief motivation behind chicken pox vaccination was the economic savings due to fewer children staying home scratching themselves. Death rates from it nowhere approach TB.

    So, is someone opposed to chicken pox vaccination an anti-vaxxer? Then I guess I am.
  4. @Steve Sailer
    From an anonymous commenter on another thread:

    I was digging through a survey looking to see if latent tuberculosis might have an impact on whether you survive or die from Covid-19. This one was done to determine how much latent TB was in the US in 2011-2012.

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/metrics?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0140881

    It definitely looks like the rates of those with latent TB parallel those who die from Covid-19, both in terms of age and ethnic rates. There’s a larger latent TB rate in foreign-born residents. I’d love to see the Covid-19 death and infections data from immigrants in US hospitals, but there’s no way anyone is going to release that. I bet it’s very high.

    Interesting find: People with diabetes had latent TB at 2 times the rate of those without diabetes. Prediabetics had it at 1.5 times the rates of those without diabetes. We now know that diabetics are more likely to die from Covid-19. I wonder if having an immune system preoccupied with keeping TB in check means it can’t police your gut for bad bacteria properly. And if your immune system is preoccupied trying to keep TB in check, it may be that it can’t fight Covid-19 properly.

    Ethnic rates of latent TB as determined by 2 tests, skin and immune reaction tests:

    Whites: 0.3%
    Black: 3.1% (that’s over 10 times the rates of whites)
    Hispanics: 5.8% (19 times the white rate)
    Asians: 10.3% (34 times the white rate)

    Foreign-born ethnics living in the US population with latent TB:

    Black: 10.5%
    Hispanic: 9.8%
    Asian: 13.2%

    By age bracket:

    6-14: 0.2%
    15-24: 1%
    25-44: 1.9%
    45-64: 3.2%
    over 65: 2.9%

    Then how are Portuguese immigrants to the US doing in the current epidemic? In Bermuda there is quite a concentration of Azorean Portuguese, so they would be an interesting group to study.

    And why does the UK have such a high rate of COVID-19 infection and deaths when it only stopped giving mandatory BCG about 15 years ago?

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    It is all very interesting. My guess would be that people who have latent TB are more vulnerable to COVID-19, so BCG populations will be a bit less vulnerable. Incidentally Spain stopped giving BCG about the same time as Britain.

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world’s population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.

    Another great reason to abolish the WHO, because then we could rest easy as we would not know about how many people have TB.

    • Replies: @utu
    There are orders of magnitude more Mexicans than Portuguese in the US. Mexico has 95% BCG inoculation coverage. Mexico began its vaccination program in 1951. Comparing Chicanos with Mexican residents in the US should give a large sample to test the BCG hypothesis. However I would not expect that American medical establishment would be interested looking into it.

    The BCG World Atlas
    http://www.bcgatlas.org/
    The BCG World Atlas: A Database of Global BCG Vaccination Policies and Practices
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062527/
    , @Old Jew
    You wrote:

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    Same here

    I had BCG in 3rd grade in 1951.

    I am in the USA for the last 47 years.

    Whenever my American doctors send me to some routine test,
    the " hard red lump" came up.

    Then I was dragged thru pulmonary X-rays, because I was considered tuberculosis suspect.

    Eventually they understood that my TB antibodies did not originate from a latent/cured/etc.
    TB, but from that BCG from childhood.


    sf
    , @TomSchmidt
    "Another great reason to abolish the WHO, because then we could rest easy as we would not know about how many people have TB."

    Wait. We have a vaccination that, if everyone took it, would eventually lead to the end of TB worldwide? We could kill TB like we killed smallpox?

    Somebody ought to abolish the WHO for not pushing this.

    Natch, I haven't had the TB vaccination; I didn't even know one existed until now.
  5. Meanwhile, NYC’s black folks still seem to have a problem grasping the concept of Social Distancing…

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/nurse-who-beat-coronavirus-pummeled-robbed-by-group-of-thugs/

  6. @Steve Sailer
    From an anonymous commenter on another thread:

    I was digging through a survey looking to see if latent tuberculosis might have an impact on whether you survive or die from Covid-19. This one was done to determine how much latent TB was in the US in 2011-2012.

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/metrics?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0140881

    It definitely looks like the rates of those with latent TB parallel those who die from Covid-19, both in terms of age and ethnic rates. There’s a larger latent TB rate in foreign-born residents. I’d love to see the Covid-19 death and infections data from immigrants in US hospitals, but there’s no way anyone is going to release that. I bet it’s very high.

    Interesting find: People with diabetes had latent TB at 2 times the rate of those without diabetes. Prediabetics had it at 1.5 times the rates of those without diabetes. We now know that diabetics are more likely to die from Covid-19. I wonder if having an immune system preoccupied with keeping TB in check means it can’t police your gut for bad bacteria properly. And if your immune system is preoccupied trying to keep TB in check, it may be that it can’t fight Covid-19 properly.

    Ethnic rates of latent TB as determined by 2 tests, skin and immune reaction tests:

    Whites: 0.3%
    Black: 3.1% (that’s over 10 times the rates of whites)
    Hispanics: 5.8% (19 times the white rate)
    Asians: 10.3% (34 times the white rate)

    Foreign-born ethnics living in the US population with latent TB:

    Black: 10.5%
    Hispanic: 9.8%
    Asian: 13.2%

    By age bracket:

    6-14: 0.2%
    15-24: 1%
    25-44: 1.9%
    45-64: 3.2%
    over 65: 2.9%

    The scientific method is hampered and perverted, as usual, by what our site calls the #PCGagOrder. As @SteveSailer states repeatedly, data must be omitted, hidden, to make sure that racist truths must not be found.
    @SteveSAiler, I appreciate if we can continue the conversation: you do have my (funny) email address for further contact.
    Our sites (sincerity dot net) claim that this #PCGagOrder, which exists in writing in diverse media ethics codes and police instructions, it the one foundation of all faulty policies, of leftward drifting voting and policies. It is like the atom, the DNA, the fundamental building block of all faulty, misinformed policies.
    Demanding scientific truth (#TrueSpeech), ceaselessly shaming liars, a TruthRevolution.net is the one and only way to return to an enlightened, scientific world with sound policies, and to un-brainwash our 1984-indoctrinated population.
    @SteveSAiler, I appreciate if we can continue the conversation, you do have my (funny) email address for further contact.

    • Replies: @Sincerity.net
    REQUIRED TO LIE
    Forbidden to say anything negative about minorities, to avoid stirring up prejudices
    (#PCGagOrder)
    Forbidden to mention negative FACTS about “minorities”, to avoid stirring up prejudices[12] [13]

    It is not permissible to tell the whole truth. Journalists, police, teachers, every citizen, all are REQUIRED TO LIE: because the WHOLE TRUTH “stirs up prejudices1 against minorities”. For over half a century, we have eagerly embraced this gag order. “Black kills White” must not be uttered.

    The AP Stylebook even requires Media to remove true facts about ethnicity of a criminal, as soon as the suspect gets apprehended.2

    Over 50 years of universally accepted gag orders
    Media code gag orders are accepted by wide bipartisan consensus. Restrictions to #TrueSpeech are not subject to opposition. Even right winger Richard Nixon wanted to repress the truth about lower Black IQ. The entire Western world has been subjected to half a century of restriction to #TrueSpeech and information blackout.

    Everyone must conceal any negative “minority” performance, to avoid stirring up prejudices.

     


    Taboo to Discuss Taboo about Race-and-IQ-Research

     


    Postmodernism: Denial of Facts and of Objective Reality is Insincere

     


    Conspire to Tell the Truth, Defy Gag Orders

     


    Votes rigged brazenly, by omitting facts that can be EXPLOITED by the “Right”
     
    continue reading at sincerity dot net, with links and footnotes
  7. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world’s population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.

    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject’s face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.

    I recall there was a TB scare going on in NYC back in the early nineties. Mostly amongst the homeless. People didn’t seem to pay it much mind at the time, and it just seemed to fade away. I recall during this time sitting in a Somewhat crowded subway car, and a black guy entered the train and then said, “Aw, shit! I got TB!” Then he started coughing in an exaggerated style, but he did cover his mouth. Everyone sitting around him abruptly got up, and moved, while saying nothing. As my doctor friend had assured me I couldn’t catch it that way, I was laughing my ass off watching everyone who had been near the black guy desert the car, and then watching him settle into a now open seat, with a big smile on his face. It was like a scene from a stupid sitcom. Like something you’d see Fred do on Sanford and Son.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject’s face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.
     
    From "Down and Out in London and Paris", Orwell recounts his experiences of sleeping in a very cheap boarding room in London in the late 1920's.

    There was a candle burning, and I saw that the room measured fifteen feet square by eight high, and had eight beds in it. Already six lodgers were in bed, queer lumpy shapes with all their own clothes, even their boots, piled on top of them. Some-one was coughing in a loathsome manner in one corner.

    Several noises re-curred throughout the night. About once in an hour the man on my left—a sailor, I think—woke up, swore vilely, and lighted a cigarette. Another man, victim of a bladder disease, got up and noisily used his chamber-pot half a dozen times during the night. The man in the corner had a coughing fit once in every twenty minutes, so regularly that one came to listen for it as one listens for the next yap when a dog is baying the moon. It was an unspeakably repellent sound; a foul bubbling and retching, as though the man’s bowels were being churned up within him. Once when he struck a match I saw that he was a very old man, with a grey, sunken face like that of a corpse, and he was wearing his trousers wrapped round his head as a nightcap, a thing which for some reason disgusted me very much. Every time he coughed or the other man swore, a sleepy voice from one of the other beds cried out:‘Shut up! Oh, for Christ’s—SAKE shut up!

    That could actually be where Orwell became infected, but he mentioned other places where he slept where there were men coughing all night, so he had plenty of opportunities to get exposed.
    , @Anon
    One problem I have with the not-easy-to-transmit concept is that 1.8 billion people have latent or acute TB. If it wasn't that easy to transmit, then so many people wouldn't have it. It's quite obvious that not enough is being done to get rid of it.
    , @Crawfurdmuir

    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject’s face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.
     
    About fifty years ago, my father served on the board of a tuberculosis sanitarium. The medical director there was a family friend, and I remember him telling us about some of his epidemiological work. It was a significant part of his professional responsibility to carry out contact tracing of patients who had come to the sanitarium for treatment.

    Usually the patients' contacts that turned out to be infected were family members, co-workers, or people that had other regular occasion for social contact. A TB outbreak in one small town, however, was puzzling, because none of those infected fell into the usual pattern. They were not related, did not work together, and did not know each other. After some investigation, the common thread was found: all of the victims went to the same barber - he was the carrier.

    Based on this, a few minutes of being as close to a carrier as a barber is to his customers is sufficient to transmit TB.

  8. @Sincerity.net
    The scientific method is hampered and perverted, as usual, by what our site calls the #PCGagOrder. As @SteveSailer states repeatedly, data must be omitted, hidden, to make sure that racist truths must not be found.
    @SteveSAiler, I appreciate if we can continue the conversation: you do have my (funny) email address for further contact.
    Our sites (sincerity dot net) claim that this #PCGagOrder, which exists in writing in diverse media ethics codes and police instructions, it the one foundation of all faulty policies, of leftward drifting voting and policies. It is like the atom, the DNA, the fundamental building block of all faulty, misinformed policies.
    Demanding scientific truth (#TrueSpeech), ceaselessly shaming liars, a TruthRevolution.net is the one and only way to return to an enlightened, scientific world with sound policies, and to un-brainwash our 1984-indoctrinated population.
    @SteveSAiler, I appreciate if we can continue the conversation, you do have my (funny) email address for further contact.

    REQUIRED TO LIE
    Forbidden to say anything negative about minorities, to avoid stirring up prejudices
    (#PCGagOrder)
    Forbidden to mention negative FACTS about “minorities”, to avoid stirring up prejudices[12] [13]

    It is not permissible to tell the whole truth. Journalists, police, teachers, every citizen, all are REQUIRED TO LIE: because the WHOLE TRUTH “stirs up prejudices1 against minorities”. For over half a century, we have eagerly embraced this gag order. “Black kills White” must not be uttered.

    The AP Stylebook even requires Media to remove true facts about ethnicity of a criminal, as soon as the suspect gets apprehended.2

    Over 50 years of universally accepted gag orders
    Media code gag orders are accepted by wide bipartisan consensus. Restrictions to #TrueSpeech are not subject to opposition. Even right winger Richard Nixon wanted to repress the truth about lower Black IQ. The entire Western world has been subjected to half a century of restriction to #TrueSpeech and information blackout.

    Everyone must conceal any negative “minority” performance, to avoid stirring up prejudices.

    Taboo to Discuss Taboo about Race-and-IQ-Research

    Postmodernism: Denial of Facts and of Objective Reality is Insincere

    Conspire to Tell the Truth, Defy Gag Orders

    Votes rigged brazenly, by omitting facts that can be EXPLOITED by the “Right”

    continue reading at sincerity dot net, with links and footnotes

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    It is not permissible to tell the whole truth. Journalists, police, teachers, every citizen, all are REQUIRED TO LIE: because the WHOLE TRUTH “stirs up prejudices1 against minorities”.
     
    Interesting.
  9. @Jonathan Mason
    Then how are Portuguese immigrants to the US doing in the current epidemic? In Bermuda there is quite a concentration of Azorean Portuguese, so they would be an interesting group to study.

    And why does the UK have such a high rate of COVID-19 infection and deaths when it only stopped giving mandatory BCG about 15 years ago?

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    It is all very interesting. My guess would be that people who have latent TB are more vulnerable to COVID-19, so BCG populations will be a bit less vulnerable. Incidentally Spain stopped giving BCG about the same time as Britain.

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world's population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.

    Another great reason to abolish the WHO, because then we could rest easy as we would not know about how many people have TB.

    There are orders of magnitude more Mexicans than Portuguese in the US. Mexico has 95% BCG inoculation coverage. Mexico began its vaccination program in 1951. Comparing Chicanos with Mexican residents in the US should give a large sample to test the BCG hypothesis. However I would not expect that American medical establishment would be interested looking into it.

    The BCG World Atlas
    http://www.bcgatlas.org/
    The BCG World Atlas: A Database of Global BCG Vaccination Policies and Practices
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062527/

  10. Well we know how illegal aliens are going to be doing in California. I bet there won’t be any fraud.

  11. Here’s an intriguing anomaly: adjacent counties in Wisconsin, Washburn and Burnett, have almost equal populations. But Washburn has 79 confirmed cases, and Burnett none.

    Neither county has a prison, but Washburn has a branch of Mayo Clinic. I wonder if that’s the difference.

    My uncle-in-law has a cabin in Burnett County. Perhaps we should camp out there. Plenty of space for social distancing.

  12. “What nobody saw coming was that immigrants might have health advantages over Americans that should be studied to figure out what their homelands did right.”

    So it’s now

    Invade the world,
    Invite the world,
    Inoculate the world?

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    "They had come and... hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms."
    - Col. Kurtz
  13. When I read the title of this article, my thought was that gangs of isteve believers would kidnap random immigrants and use them for experiments. Then I read the article. All I can say now is, “Oh. Darn.”

  14. @Jonathan Mason
    Then how are Portuguese immigrants to the US doing in the current epidemic? In Bermuda there is quite a concentration of Azorean Portuguese, so they would be an interesting group to study.

    And why does the UK have such a high rate of COVID-19 infection and deaths when it only stopped giving mandatory BCG about 15 years ago?

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    It is all very interesting. My guess would be that people who have latent TB are more vulnerable to COVID-19, so BCG populations will be a bit less vulnerable. Incidentally Spain stopped giving BCG about the same time as Britain.

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world's population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.

    Another great reason to abolish the WHO, because then we could rest easy as we would not know about how many people have TB.

    You wrote:

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    Same here

    I had BCG in 3rd grade in 1951.

    I am in the USA for the last 47 years.

    Whenever my American doctors send me to some routine test,
    the ” hard red lump” came up.

    Then I was dragged thru pulmonary X-rays, because I was considered tuberculosis suspect.

    Eventually they understood that my TB antibodies did not originate from a latent/cured/etc.
    TB, but from that BCG from childhood.

    sf

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Eventually they understood that my TB antibodies did not originate from a latent/cured/etc.
    TB, but from that BCG from childhood.
     
    Maybe that was the case many years ago. Today the standard pre-PPD questionaire includes questions about whether you were born overseas and whether you had the BCG.
  15. @Anonymous

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world’s population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.
     
    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject's face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.

    I recall there was a TB scare going on in NYC back in the early nineties. Mostly amongst the homeless. People didn’t seem to pay it much mind at the time, and it just seemed to fade away. I recall during this time sitting in a Somewhat crowded subway car, and a black guy entered the train and then said, "Aw, shit! I got TB!" Then he started coughing in an exaggerated style, but he did cover his mouth. Everyone sitting around him abruptly got up, and moved, while saying nothing. As my doctor friend had assured me I couldn’t catch it that way, I was laughing my ass off watching everyone who had been near the black guy desert the car, and then watching him settle into a now open seat, with a big smile on his face. It was like a scene from a stupid sitcom. Like something you'd see Fred do on Sanford and Son.

    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject’s face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.

    From “Down and Out in London and Paris”, Orwell recounts his experiences of sleeping in a very cheap boarding room in London in the late 1920’s.

    There was a candle burning, and I saw that the room measured fifteen feet square by eight high, and had eight beds in it. Already six lodgers were in bed, queer lumpy shapes with all their own clothes, even their boots, piled on top of them. Some-one was coughing in a loathsome manner in one corner.

    Several noises re-curred throughout the night. About once in an hour the man on my left—a sailor, I think—woke up, swore vilely, and lighted a cigarette. Another man, victim of a bladder disease, got up and noisily used his chamber-pot half a dozen times during the night. The man in the corner had a coughing fit once in every twenty minutes, so regularly that one came to listen for it as one listens for the next yap when a dog is baying the moon. It was an unspeakably repellent sound; a foul bubbling and retching, as though the man’s bowels were being churned up within him. Once when he struck a match I saw that he was a very old man, with a grey, sunken face like that of a corpse, and he was wearing his trousers wrapped round his head as a nightcap, a thing which for some reason disgusted me very much. Every time he coughed or the other man swore, a sleepy voice from one of the other beds cried out:‘Shut up! Oh, for Christ’s—SAKE shut up!

    That could actually be where Orwell became infected, but he mentioned other places where he slept where there were men coughing all night, so he had plenty of opportunities to get exposed.

  16. @Steve Sailer
    From an anonymous commenter on another thread:

    I was digging through a survey looking to see if latent tuberculosis might have an impact on whether you survive or die from Covid-19. This one was done to determine how much latent TB was in the US in 2011-2012.

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/metrics?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0140881

    It definitely looks like the rates of those with latent TB parallel those who die from Covid-19, both in terms of age and ethnic rates. There’s a larger latent TB rate in foreign-born residents. I’d love to see the Covid-19 death and infections data from immigrants in US hospitals, but there’s no way anyone is going to release that. I bet it’s very high.

    Interesting find: People with diabetes had latent TB at 2 times the rate of those without diabetes. Prediabetics had it at 1.5 times the rates of those without diabetes. We now know that diabetics are more likely to die from Covid-19. I wonder if having an immune system preoccupied with keeping TB in check means it can’t police your gut for bad bacteria properly. And if your immune system is preoccupied trying to keep TB in check, it may be that it can’t fight Covid-19 properly.

    Ethnic rates of latent TB as determined by 2 tests, skin and immune reaction tests:

    Whites: 0.3%
    Black: 3.1% (that’s over 10 times the rates of whites)
    Hispanics: 5.8% (19 times the white rate)
    Asians: 10.3% (34 times the white rate)

    Foreign-born ethnics living in the US population with latent TB:

    Black: 10.5%
    Hispanic: 9.8%
    Asian: 13.2%

    By age bracket:

    6-14: 0.2%
    15-24: 1%
    25-44: 1.9%
    45-64: 3.2%
    over 65: 2.9%

    There’s a larger latent TB rate in foreign-born residents.

    Doesn’t BCG prevent latent TB?

    Also, how does one explain very similar nearby countries having large differences in death per million statistics? Like Italy vs. Slovenia, Belgium vs. Denmark, Sweden vs. Norway? Is it possible to test if this pattern prevails among immigrants from those countries.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Norway locked down, and Sweden didn't. That's what the locker-downers will claim.

    Of course, Italy locked down and Sweden didn't. So did England lock down, and their deaths/mm far exceed Sweden. As do their GDP/per capita drops.

    My guess is you won't hear much of the latter.
  17. There are lots of important hypotheses to be tested. But none will be investigated until long after it is too late and the virus has run its course through the whole population.

    Pursuant to bureaucratic fragmentation, HIIPA red tape, and political butt-covering, comprehensive or representative data is totally inaccessible.

    No systematic data records who caught the virus, when they caught it, what health effects they suffered because of it, and their health and demographic backgrounds. Indeed, the powers that be have barely even starting the process of doing representative sampling.

    There are vast data analytic resources available, including very smart data analysts and medical researchers could be enlisted to crowdsource solutions.

    But they can’t do a damn thing without the data: Which is either not being collected, or is locked up tight.

  18. @Anonymous

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world’s population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.
     
    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject's face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.

    I recall there was a TB scare going on in NYC back in the early nineties. Mostly amongst the homeless. People didn’t seem to pay it much mind at the time, and it just seemed to fade away. I recall during this time sitting in a Somewhat crowded subway car, and a black guy entered the train and then said, "Aw, shit! I got TB!" Then he started coughing in an exaggerated style, but he did cover his mouth. Everyone sitting around him abruptly got up, and moved, while saying nothing. As my doctor friend had assured me I couldn’t catch it that way, I was laughing my ass off watching everyone who had been near the black guy desert the car, and then watching him settle into a now open seat, with a big smile on his face. It was like a scene from a stupid sitcom. Like something you'd see Fred do on Sanford and Son.

    One problem I have with the not-easy-to-transmit concept is that 1.8 billion people have latent or acute TB. If it wasn’t that easy to transmit, then so many people wouldn’t have it. It’s quite obvious that not enough is being done to get rid of it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    One problem I have with the not-easy-to-transmit concept is that 1.8 billion people have latent or acute TB. If it wasn’t that easy to transmit, then so many people wouldn’t have it. It’s quite obvious that not enough is being done to get rid of it.
     
    Coughing in the general close proximity to somebody's face could be considered an easy transmittal in some poorer cultures, certainly, as well as America's wretched.
    My friend was relating to me and my class. It’s not so easy to transmit to the modern civilized chap. I don’t straddle locations where coughing in faces isn’t frowned upon.
    I will give you that if you’re Jack fucking London sleeping in a San Francisco flophouse full of drunks, hobo's, and lobster poachers, transmittal is probably more likely.
  19. @Reg Cæsar

    Anita Shet
     
    Den go to da baffroom.

    Groan.

  20. Maybe you could start with how low-income Latinos are coping.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    Then when the lockdown is lifted, her neighbors will also be losing it in the streets, yelling, screaming and crying, sometimes at the air. Maybe firing some guns at the sky too.
  21. Gilead says most of the patients in its remdesivir drug trial are doing very well, and most of them have recovered and gone home. Nearly all had severe cases of Covid-19.

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/

  22. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "What nobody saw coming was that immigrants might have health advantages over Americans that should be studied to figure out what their homelands did right."

    So it's now

    Invade the world,
    Invite the world,
    Inoculate the world?

    “They had come and… hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms.”
    – Col. Kurtz

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    There you go again; giving away the plans of the eeeeevil white supremacists!
    , @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPPGMNOLaMw

    “They had come and… hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms.”
    – Col. Kurtz
     
    True story.

    A friend of mine, who requests anonymity, was an important influence on Apocalypse Now. He did three tours of Vietnam in the Special Forces, and he told me the greatest power we had over there was that we could call from the sky either fire or a cow. We could burn a village down from the sky. or we could make a cow appear out of the air.

    This friend was the model for Willard (played by Martin Sheen) in Apocalypse. Remember the story that Marlon Brando tells about the Communists chopping off the inoculated arms of children? It’s a true story.

    My friend was a Special Forces adviser to a South Vietnamese unit when the Forces were doing civic-action programs. inoculating people from a village not too far from Saigon. Afterwards, the Viet Cong came in and chopped off all the villagers’ inoculated arms. To retaliate, the Green Beret team and the Special Forces civic-action team rounded up a bunch of known Viet Cong leaders and killed them all. My friend and the others got in trouble for it. though, because the dead had been the sources the Americans were buying intelligence from.

    It’s a harrowing true story that he will have to live with for the rest of his life. Every movie that I write contains a scene like it: Somebody tells a story of an event that is more harrowing than anything that can be depicted.

    https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/2017/12/16/apocalypse-now-a-soldiers-tale-by-john-milius/
     
    , @Reg Cæsar

    They had come and… hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms.”
    – Col. Kurtz
     
    Saff!



    https://am22.mediaite.com/tms/cnt/uploads/2020/03/kelci.jpg

    https://screenrant.com/tiger-king-netflix-saff-reacts-misgendered-trans/
  23. Unfortunately, the public health data reporting system appears to have been set up with the intention of obscuring the origins of pandemic patients in order to fulfill the Establishment’s highest priority: Avoiding Stigmatization of the Marginalized. It was assumed that future epidemics would be centered among immigrants, racial minorities, homosexuals, and so forth, and these patterns must be covered up to prevent a Backlash against the morally superior marginalized.

    Yes, bigotry is driven by statisticians because people need statistical reasons to hate.

  24. @Anonymous

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world’s population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.
     
    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject's face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.

    I recall there was a TB scare going on in NYC back in the early nineties. Mostly amongst the homeless. People didn’t seem to pay it much mind at the time, and it just seemed to fade away. I recall during this time sitting in a Somewhat crowded subway car, and a black guy entered the train and then said, "Aw, shit! I got TB!" Then he started coughing in an exaggerated style, but he did cover his mouth. Everyone sitting around him abruptly got up, and moved, while saying nothing. As my doctor friend had assured me I couldn’t catch it that way, I was laughing my ass off watching everyone who had been near the black guy desert the car, and then watching him settle into a now open seat, with a big smile on his face. It was like a scene from a stupid sitcom. Like something you'd see Fred do on Sanford and Son.

    According to my doctor friend, TB isn’t that easy to transmit. He said somebody would have to cough almost directly in a subject’s face to transmit successfully, otherwise catching it off a carrier, while not impossible, isn’t probable.

    About fifty years ago, my father served on the board of a tuberculosis sanitarium. The medical director there was a family friend, and I remember him telling us about some of his epidemiological work. It was a significant part of his professional responsibility to carry out contact tracing of patients who had come to the sanitarium for treatment.

    Usually the patients’ contacts that turned out to be infected were family members, co-workers, or people that had other regular occasion for social contact. A TB outbreak in one small town, however, was puzzling, because none of those infected fell into the usual pattern. They were not related, did not work together, and did not know each other. After some investigation, the common thread was found: all of the victims went to the same barber – he was the carrier.

    Based on this, a few minutes of being as close to a carrier as a barber is to his customers is sufficient to transmit TB.

  25. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:

    Based on this, a few minutes of being as close to a carrier as a barber is to his customers is sufficient to transmit TB.

    Haircuts take longer than a few minutes. And a cough while standing over the top of someone while cutting their hair isn’t a wacky idea. If both a barbers hands were occupied, which they usually are, one could reasonable imagine the barber coughing without covering his mouth.

  26. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    One problem I have with the not-easy-to-transmit concept is that 1.8 billion people have latent or acute TB. If it wasn't that easy to transmit, then so many people wouldn't have it. It's quite obvious that not enough is being done to get rid of it.

    One problem I have with the not-easy-to-transmit concept is that 1.8 billion people have latent or acute TB. If it wasn’t that easy to transmit, then so many people wouldn’t have it. It’s quite obvious that not enough is being done to get rid of it.

    Coughing in the general close proximity to somebody’s face could be considered an easy transmittal in some poorer cultures, certainly, as well as America’s wretched.
    My friend was relating to me and my class. It’s not so easy to transmit to the modern civilized chap. I don’t straddle locations where coughing in faces isn’t frowned upon.
    I will give you that if you’re Jack fucking London sleeping in a San Francisco flophouse full of drunks, hobo’s, and lobster poachers, transmittal is probably more likely.

  27. I remember reading that the murder rate in the US (or was it just gun violence?) would be the same or less than European countries if only White perpetrators were counted. Call this the Ethnic Baseline Rate – the rate of the most populous ethnic group. In the UK, 13% are non white, but 35% of deaths are non white. In Chicago, blacks die at 8 times the rate of whites. What would be the EBR of various countries?

  28. @Change that Matters
    Maybe you could start with how low-income Latinos are coping.

    https://twitter.com/AldenWicker/status/1250762266867269632

    Then when the lockdown is lifted, her neighbors will also be losing it in the streets, yelling, screaming and crying, sometimes at the air. Maybe firing some guns at the sky too.

  29. @Old Jew
    You wrote:

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    Same here

    I had BCG in 3rd grade in 1951.

    I am in the USA for the last 47 years.

    Whenever my American doctors send me to some routine test,
    the " hard red lump" came up.

    Then I was dragged thru pulmonary X-rays, because I was considered tuberculosis suspect.

    Eventually they understood that my TB antibodies did not originate from a latent/cured/etc.
    TB, but from that BCG from childhood.


    sf

    Eventually they understood that my TB antibodies did not originate from a latent/cured/etc.
    TB, but from that BCG from childhood.

    Maybe that was the case many years ago. Today the standard pre-PPD questionaire includes questions about whether you were born overseas and whether you had the BCG.

  30. Anonymous[683] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sincerity.net
    REQUIRED TO LIE
    Forbidden to say anything negative about minorities, to avoid stirring up prejudices
    (#PCGagOrder)
    Forbidden to mention negative FACTS about “minorities”, to avoid stirring up prejudices[12] [13]

    It is not permissible to tell the whole truth. Journalists, police, teachers, every citizen, all are REQUIRED TO LIE: because the WHOLE TRUTH “stirs up prejudices1 against minorities”. For over half a century, we have eagerly embraced this gag order. “Black kills White” must not be uttered.

    The AP Stylebook even requires Media to remove true facts about ethnicity of a criminal, as soon as the suspect gets apprehended.2

    Over 50 years of universally accepted gag orders
    Media code gag orders are accepted by wide bipartisan consensus. Restrictions to #TrueSpeech are not subject to opposition. Even right winger Richard Nixon wanted to repress the truth about lower Black IQ. The entire Western world has been subjected to half a century of restriction to #TrueSpeech and information blackout.

    Everyone must conceal any negative “minority” performance, to avoid stirring up prejudices.

     


    Taboo to Discuss Taboo about Race-and-IQ-Research

     


    Postmodernism: Denial of Facts and of Objective Reality is Insincere

     


    Conspire to Tell the Truth, Defy Gag Orders

     


    Votes rigged brazenly, by omitting facts that can be EXPLOITED by the “Right”
     
    continue reading at sincerity dot net, with links and footnotes

    It is not permissible to tell the whole truth. Journalists, police, teachers, every citizen, all are REQUIRED TO LIE: because the WHOLE TRUTH “stirs up prejudices1 against minorities”.

    Interesting.

  31. @BenKenobi
    "They had come and... hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms."
    - Col. Kurtz

    There you go again; giving away the plans of the eeeeevil white supremacists!

  32. Quebec had a mass BCG vaccination program from the 1950s to the 1970s. None of the other provinces did.

    http://www.epi.inrs.ca/?page_id=764

    Unfortunately, at the moment Quebec has just over 51% of Canadian Covid-19 deaths, but only about 22% of the population.

    https://www.covid-19canada.com/

  33. Look at this. Japan strain is regarded as more ‘potent’.

  34. @Jonathan Mason
    Then how are Portuguese immigrants to the US doing in the current epidemic? In Bermuda there is quite a concentration of Azorean Portuguese, so they would be an interesting group to study.

    And why does the UK have such a high rate of COVID-19 infection and deaths when it only stopped giving mandatory BCG about 15 years ago?

    I had the BCG in October 1964 (to the best of my recollection), but my understanding is that it is only effective for TB for about 15 years. Certainly when I have an annual PPD (purified protein derivative) test these days the reaction is always negative, though the theory is that people who have had a BCG may give a false positive reading on the PPD test (because a hard red lump comes up indicating the presence of TB antibodies.)

    It is all very interesting. My guess would be that people who have latent TB are more vulnerable to COVID-19, so BCG populations will be a bit less vulnerable. Incidentally Spain stopped giving BCG about the same time as Britain.

    TB, 70 years after it killed George Orwell, is STILL the leading infectious cause of death worldwide. The World Health Organization estimates that 1.8 billion people—close to one quarter of the world's population—are positive for bacteria that causes TB (wow!). Last year, 10 million fell ill from TB and 1.5 million died, mostly, obviously, in very poor countries in Africa, and in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Not so much in the G-7 countries.

    Another great reason to abolish the WHO, because then we could rest easy as we would not know about how many people have TB.

    “Another great reason to abolish the WHO, because then we could rest easy as we would not know about how many people have TB.”

    Wait. We have a vaccination that, if everyone took it, would eventually lead to the end of TB worldwide? We could kill TB like we killed smallpox?

    Somebody ought to abolish the WHO for not pushing this.

    Natch, I haven’t had the TB vaccination; I didn’t even know one existed until now.

  35. @BenKenobi
    "They had come and... hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms."
    - Col. Kurtz

    “They had come and… hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms.”
    – Col. Kurtz

    True story.

    A friend of mine, who requests anonymity, was an important influence on Apocalypse Now. He did three tours of Vietnam in the Special Forces, and he told me the greatest power we had over there was that we could call from the sky either fire or a cow. We could burn a village down from the sky. or we could make a cow appear out of the air.

    This friend was the model for Willard (played by Martin Sheen) in Apocalypse. Remember the story that Marlon Brando tells about the Communists chopping off the inoculated arms of children? It’s a true story.

    My friend was a Special Forces adviser to a South Vietnamese unit when the Forces were doing civic-action programs. inoculating people from a village not too far from Saigon. Afterwards, the Viet Cong came in and chopped off all the villagers’ inoculated arms. To retaliate, the Green Beret team and the Special Forces civic-action team rounded up a bunch of known Viet Cong leaders and killed them all. My friend and the others got in trouble for it. though, because the dead had been the sources the Americans were buying intelligence from.

    It’s a harrowing true story that he will have to live with for the rest of his life. Every movie that I write contains a scene like it: Somebody tells a story of an event that is more harrowing than anything that can be depicted.

    https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/2017/12/16/apocalypse-now-a-soldiers-tale-by-john-milius/

  36. @epebble

    There’s a larger latent TB rate in foreign-born residents.
     
    Doesn't BCG prevent latent TB?

    Also, how does one explain very similar nearby countries having large differences in death per million statistics? Like Italy vs. Slovenia, Belgium vs. Denmark, Sweden vs. Norway? Is it possible to test if this pattern prevails among immigrants from those countries.

    Norway locked down, and Sweden didn’t. That’s what the locker-downers will claim.

    Of course, Italy locked down and Sweden didn’t. So did England lock down, and their deaths/mm far exceed Sweden. As do their GDP/per capita drops.

    My guess is you won’t hear much of the latter.

  37. @Redneck farmer
    The anti-vaxxers won't believe it, Steve.

    I like to consider myself an intelligent vaxxer, if you may. So, the vaccinations I was given as a child were determined to be necessary on the basis of politically incorrect science. Polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria, etc. Diphtheria is my favorite vaccine since it trains the body to react to and isolate the protein produced by the bacteria, with the effect that pretty much everyone gets diphtheria but in a non-lethal form, since the body is all over the excess-toxic-protein-producing bacteria.

    Measles is an interesting case. Lethal in the 19th and 20th centuries when vaccination became mandated, it’s not that threatening to well-fed, well-cared-for populations. It might be a disease that we let healthy young people get so they can get over it.

    Tuberculosis by contrast is a longstanding enemy, and kills people who get it. Maybe we lost focus on the damn thing because it’s bacteria, and we have antibiotics. Cue drug-resistant TB, especially amongst immigrants. Maybe we need to add that back to the schedule. Unlikely, because there’s no money in using an old vaccine.

    I oppose vaccination for things like chicken pox. It’s a bad disease for adults to get, so I could see suggesting it there. The chief motivation behind chicken pox vaccination was the economic savings due to fewer children staying home scratching themselves. Death rates from it nowhere approach TB.

    So, is someone opposed to chicken pox vaccination an anti-vaxxer? Then I guess I am.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Tuberculosis by contrast is a longstanding enemy, and kills people who get it. Maybe we lost focus on the damn thing because it’s bacteria, and we have antibiotics. Cue drug-resistant TB, especially amongst immigrants.
     
    We “lost focus” on TB because focusing on it could draw people’s attention to the costs and risks of immigration.
  38. @BenKenobi
    "They had come and... hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms."
    - Col. Kurtz

    They had come and… hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms.”
    – Col. Kurtz

    Saff!

    https://screenrant.com/tiger-king-netflix-saff-reacts-misgendered-trans/

  39. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @TomSchmidt
    I like to consider myself an intelligent vaxxer, if you may. So, the vaccinations I was given as a child were determined to be necessary on the basis of politically incorrect science. Polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria, etc. Diphtheria is my favorite vaccine since it trains the body to react to and isolate the protein produced by the bacteria, with the effect that pretty much everyone gets diphtheria but in a non-lethal form, since the body is all over the excess-toxic-protein-producing bacteria.

    Measles is an interesting case. Lethal in the 19th and 20th centuries when vaccination became mandated, it's not that threatening to well-fed, well-cared-for populations. It might be a disease that we let healthy young people get so they can get over it.

    Tuberculosis by contrast is a longstanding enemy, and kills people who get it. Maybe we lost focus on the damn thing because it's bacteria, and we have antibiotics. Cue drug-resistant TB, especially amongst immigrants. Maybe we need to add that back to the schedule. Unlikely, because there's no money in using an old vaccine.

    I oppose vaccination for things like chicken pox. It's a bad disease for adults to get, so I could see suggesting it there. The chief motivation behind chicken pox vaccination was the economic savings due to fewer children staying home scratching themselves. Death rates from it nowhere approach TB.

    So, is someone opposed to chicken pox vaccination an anti-vaxxer? Then I guess I am.

    Tuberculosis by contrast is a longstanding enemy, and kills people who get it. Maybe we lost focus on the damn thing because it’s bacteria, and we have antibiotics. Cue drug-resistant TB, especially amongst immigrants.

    We “lost focus” on TB because focusing on it could draw people’s attention to the costs and risks of immigration.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Yeah, and that's probably also related to why I never had a TB shot: we had eliminated it until post-1965 wave brought it back.

    Still: with all Gates' billions, there's a disease that's killable that needs only money to kill. Why isn't he trying to kill it?
  40. @Anonymous

    Tuberculosis by contrast is a longstanding enemy, and kills people who get it. Maybe we lost focus on the damn thing because it’s bacteria, and we have antibiotics. Cue drug-resistant TB, especially amongst immigrants.
     
    We “lost focus” on TB because focusing on it could draw people’s attention to the costs and risks of immigration.

    Yeah, and that’s probably also related to why I never had a TB shot: we had eliminated it until post-1965 wave brought it back.

    Still: with all Gates’ billions, there’s a disease that’s killable that needs only money to kill. Why isn’t he trying to kill it?

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