How to Get the Economy Back on Its Feet: Masks
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The financial crisis is happening because shutting down businesses and hobbling businesses with social distancing practices is an incredibly expensive.
Want to do something useful about coronavirus? Think up ideas for less disruptive ways to prevent the spread of the virus.
— Randall Parker #ApproveMoreVaccines (@futurepundit) March 13, 2020
Masks.
Billions and billions of masks.
330 million Americans would need 10 billion N95 masks per month if they were to wear one disposable one each day. (Granted, doctors in Seattle are now bleaching theirs to get more days out of them.)
They aren’t that hard to make. During WWII we built a 15,000-ton Liberty-class cargo ship every 16 hours. We can make 10 billion N95 masks per month.
I thought the (((Fed))) was getting the economy back on its feet by sending US futures vertical at precisely 12AM with liquidity injections?
Free market, right.
https://i.imgur.com/85yGHMB.jpg
Hey, what does Krugman say?
They could schedule time off from work ahead of time and make it a vacation (albeit one where you are sick). The benefit is that once you get it over with you are immune and can go about your life normally. Plus, once enough people have gone through the voluntary infection process the community will develop the much sought-after "herd immunity."* (Perhaps immune people could get a special wrist-band or ID card or something so that they can congregate freely and others don't have to keep them at a "social distance.")
Apparently, for young and healthy people it's hardly worse than the regular flu. If they are willing to step up and "take one for the team" we can get to herd immunity without putting the old and sick at risk. And the number of cases can be planned so as not to over-tax the medical system.
Aside from the benefit of "getting it over with" there could be financial or other incentives. Maybe all the infected people could go on a "quarantine cruise" together on the currently-empty cruise liners, or all fly together and stay at a luxury hotel together -- since all that infrastructure is currently going to waste.
*Has anyone done the math on herd immunity for this virus? In other words, what percentage of the population would have to be immune to keep Ro < 1?
I have one word for you, ventilators.
Ventilators! Oxygen delivery systems — and the masks that are part of them.
There really should be a crash program now to make as many respirators/ventilators as possible. Corona-Chan sufferers will need them to breathe, and there might very well be a shortage of them. We can save lives by making more ventilators ASAP.
Call them liberty respirators, like the liberty ships manufactured during WWII.
Fun fact: During the balls-out construction of those ships, workers unknowingly exposed themselves to massive amounts of asbestos fibers in the air. The substance was an excellent, fireproof material used in large quantities.
Well, those workers came down with asbestosis years later. The resulting lawsuits crashed the stock my family owned and knocked me down a rung on the socio-economic ladder. My father knew a lot about asbestos, because his company (before him) made the asbestos materials in the liberty ships.
Watch out what you do in an emergency. Make sure you don’t harm yourself in the process.
It looks like many people in Taiwan, Singapore, S Korea, Hong Kong are wearing surgical masks, not N95. Much more tolerable than N95, cheaper. Not as effective in protecting inhalation, but moderately effective in stopping droplet spread. The effect multiplies when everyone wears one.
They also remind you not to touch your face and to keep your hands off surfaces.
My anecdote from yesterday: I went to teach a corporate class in a business building (24 floors) here in Kaohsiung, the large port city here in southern Taiwan. In the lobby of the building, they have set up a temperature screening machine. Everyone who enters the building must walk through a rather wide entrance and the security guard has the readout at his desk. Anyone not wearing a mask is denied entry. I do not feel inconvenienced or violated by this procedure; on the contrary, I realize that these small actions are what have allowed Taiwan to combat the spread of this monster.
On Thursday, January 23 I flew from Okinawa to Kaohsiung, Taiwan, returning from a short vacation. At that time, Taiwan had ONE confirmed case of COVID-19, then referred to as the Wuhan Coronavirus. Every passenger on the plane was wearing a mask. Today is Saturday, March 14 over here, and Taiwan has 50 confirmed cases. Taiwan is a success story in fighting the spread. I am appalled by the reaction of western "leaders". They are not leaders. Merkel told the German people that there would probably be infection rates of 70% of the population. This is irresponsible and idiotic. She should be imploring them to take actions to halt or slow the spread.Replies: @Steve Sailer
Idea 1: have ERs do like the DMV and SS offices do: take a number from a roll of paper number machine. go back to your car in the parking lot. wait until your number lights up on a big LED sign board and then get out of your car and go straight to your doctor. The “waiting room” is actually every patients car. the patients are well separated.
Idea 2: Don’t go IN a pharmacy to get your drugs. Call the pharmacy and order them and wait for the pharmacy to beep your phone, then go to the drive-up window to pick them up.
Idea 3: use a grocery store that will take orders by computer, then drive up to the grocery and have the bag boy deliver them next to your car and retreat back to the store. only then do you open your car door, get out, and put the groceries in your trunk.
We need more hormone blockers and trannie porn. It’s the only way to save (((the globe))).
How about something less technically intensive to produce than N95 masks. What about badanas worn across the face to reduce hand-to-face contact and raise local air humidity coming into the nose and throat? It might also discourage transmission from cough and sneezes in the affected. Are there any studies of this, and if so, do they look at different materials and their effectiveness? (For example, is cotton better than synthetics?) It doesn’t need to be 100% effective, just trying to bring down the R-rate.
@1:55 the Gov of New Jersey demonstrates how to sneeze into your jacket sleeve.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1237138237724004352
The bad news is we outsourced the production of these to China. Maybe it’s time to rethink the wisdom of outsourcing manufacturing.
This virus is gonna bring down globalist ideology.
Can big money shots survive covid-19? Will Soros survive?
They also remind you not to touch your face and to keep your hands off surfaces.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Sam Haysom, @frankie p
Or they cause you to touch your face more. Ever wear a mask? I have a bunch of the N95 ones because I bought them at Home Depot a long time ago for all the home and yard projects I do. Dust, you know. Well, people wearing their masks are going to fuss and fidget and adjust and touch their faces. I know.
If you are sick, wear a mask to keep from spreading the illness. Doctors are advising us that this is the real reason to wear one. If you are not sick, think twice about it.
As I observed in Japan in the 1970s, they wear masks in public when they have a cold or other malady to prevent spreading it--as a courtesy to their fellow citizens. Japan is a supremely dense country--to practice social distancing would be an impossibility.
I've seen Asians follow that practice here in NYC on occasion (pre-dating Covid-19).Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
FWIW, the Israeli Health Ministry doesn’t think the masks are good for much.
I like the mega masks plan + educated reality (not PROJECT FEAR) + herd immunity plan.
Mostly because lockdown (mass quarantine) will destroy so much of the economy that that alone will cost many lives will it not? Where are the die-off-from-despair models on total economic standstill?
And the virus death rates are exaggerated due to mild unreported cases. The Ohio health official who estimated a million cases already in the state is probably in the ballpark.
The virus is constantly mutating. Perhaps we are already in a phase of less lethal strains as new facts on the ground. I say this because the American ICUs are still operating normally…
Bottom line is the Italian debacle could still turn out to be an extreme outlier. Merkle wasn’t lying in her prediction of mass infection in Germany but look at the declining death rate.
Yup.
The worst punishment that exists in the world is solitary confinement. So much so that it is regarded as torture by the UN.
"I like the mega masks plan + educated reality (not PROJECT FEAR) + herd immunity plan."
This is the only reasonable answer, history will show. Airplanes are currently supervectors of disease (one person can infect a huge number of others on a long flight with dry air) but if you humidify the cabin and everyone wears masks, a flight will be fine.Replies: @Steve Sailer
Focus on life extension technologies. Spend huge on it. What else has a higher priority? And if you could reverse aging it would take care of 99% of medical problems. We should be spending at least half as much as the defense budget on it.
No to mention render sex pointless.Replies: @RichardTaylor
On the Skytrain in Bangkok last night I saw 95% of the passengers wearing masks. Foreigners tended not to. The Skytrain tannoy asks people to wear masks on the train.
My Thai language school has the receptionist checking temperatures with a scanner. Thais come – it also teaches English and Chinese – wearing masks but take them off in the school. Westerners do not wear masks. East Asians never take them off.
Some retail outlets and government offices also have security guards scanning visitors.
I am hoping that Thailand is too hot and muggy for the virus to spread much. 70-odd infections so far.
I have worn surgical masks, dust masks and N95s. Surgical masks are comfortable enough; you can adjust them touching the ear loops only. They don’t itch, they don’t ride up, they don’t pinch your nose, they don’t make it harder to breathe.
Surgical masks are what are put on patients presenting with flu symptoms, unless they need an oxygen mask.
Surgical masks for everyone is part of the successful strategy of the NE Asian countries.
Are you giving away your N95s?
Not quite yet, though:
https://championtraveler.com/dates/best-time-to-visit-south-carolina-us/
Wow, the (((Fed))) appears to have completely blown its load in the extended hours session, mainly for the benefit of central banks and large institutional traders.
I’m also hearing more talk about people wearing gloves in public — latex or other even more protective materials. But as with masks, medical pros supposedly learn a specific way to take off the gloves without infecting their hands
A commenter on a previous post directed our attention to Joa, the maker of nonwoven mask making factory machinery, they of the 9-hole company golf course in Sheboygan.
My impression was that the machines are automated to the extent that they don’t employ so many people.
I find the N95s kind of suffocating. The normal masks have another problem if you wear eyeglasses: Little jets of humid CO2 fog up your glasses. In really cold winters while riding my bicycle (Asians use masks to keep their faces warm also) I have resorted to adding double-sided tape to the top edge. The bendy strips don’t completely seal.
Totobobo N95s have a visible seal, replaceable filters, and can be shaped to your face with a hot hair dryer. But I can’t see Americans wearing them, as they look more like gas masks. And China is the only country with significant injection molding capacity … but maybe the U.S. should aim at returning some of that to the U.S.
http://totobobo.com/
M
http://joa.com/
The Curt G Joa company in Sheboygan Falls, WI
They don’t make the masks, but they make the machines that make masks.
Disclosure: I don’t own any stock as it is privately held, but I know someone who knows someone else who works there.
Yes… but that was World War II, and the year 1942. A pandemic with roughly 2% fatality rate is something, but something different from a global war. And the year is 2020. And the US national debt is over 23 trillion dollars. And the gross domestic product is under 22 trillion dollars. And the budget deficit is at over 1 trillion dollars. And…
Most importantly, does the stock market agree with your proposal? Are the shareholders of the mask producing companies okay with it? Going even further, are the major companies of the world, the ones not in the N95 mask business, actually interested in stopping this pandemic, or in having the healthcare systems around the world not being overhelmed? What do they have to gain from it? Is there the slight drop of a possibility that, now that it has arrived in the US and Europe, they stand to gain more from not containing it?
Masks help keep your mucous membranes moist, reducing cracking that allows viruses easy access.
This whole no mask thing is to keep them more available for the govt.
As to the test, Korea is a country with great manufacturing capability. That’s why the test they made can be cranked out at 20k a day. Do we have that capability? No? Thanks Bushies. You, obola and the Clinton’s have screwed us again.
They also remind you not to touch your face and to keep your hands off surfaces.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Sam Haysom, @frankie p
Also hospital beds, ventilators, soap. By the way, masks do work 99% of the time in preventing infection. The only reason some health professionls have said they dont is they know they.are in short supply and want to make sure they got.hold.of them instead of the general public
I was at the grocery store this morning. Toilet paper shelves were empty, but in the next aisle over plenty of soap. I bought some ice cream.Replies: @Autochthon
One of the last remaining mask makers in the USA is not willing to borrow money for a massive increase in mask production based on his past experience during the SARS outbreak.
He was swamped with orders from US hospitals during SARS, and tooled up for big production with lots of borrowed money.
Unfortunately, the US hospitals dropped him like a hot rock once SARS eased off. The US hospitals switched back to cheap Chinese suppliers and left him high and dry with tons of debt.
Bannon interviewed him a couple times on Bannon’s website, “pandemic.warroom.com”. The free market will screw you once the shortage is over.
It really took off on Leap Day. Now we have Friday the 13th, the Ides of March, and St Patrick’s in short order.
Oh, just stop it with your Liberty Ship lie Mr Sailer!
In WWII, the USA didn’t build ships here, let alone in 16 hours (ha ha), without first importing all the parts from China first, and even then, as you well know, you had it made in a sweat-shipyard in Mexico.
Plus, as FDR said, rivetting was a job Rosie just wasn’t prepared to do.
Next, you’ll be saying to your (admittedly gullible) readers Americans put men on the moon without employing one illegal alien worker- or a H1-B visa holder.
You can fool all of your readers some of the time….
Free market, right.Replies: @El Dato, @Barnard, @Hypnotoad666
REDUCE THE INTEREST RATE!
Hey, what does Krugman say?
Yeah this.
This is one big reason why I suspect that Trump isn’t on the ball and hasn’t been for a month or so. Specifically, masks, tests (for coronavirus), hand sanitizer.
Tests are complicated, hand sanitizer is absurdly simple, masks are somewhere in the middle. Maybe it’s unrealistic to think that we could have a sufficient and smooth supply chain running for these things right now. But, we ought to know where the bottlenecks are at the moment, what the workarounds are that we are attempting, and have that information conveyed to us.
Because that is visibly not being done by the Trump Administration, I’m skeptical that other more important or more useful countermeasures aren’t being taken as well.
Obama, Biden, and the CDC over regulated the manufacturing of surgical masks and even respirators. That’s what Trump stepped into as the virus started gaining some ground.
As I’ve always maintained, Obama is an administrator, he’s not a leader. Never has been, never will be. An administrator’s mindset is quite different from a leader. Those reading can recall when they worked for a leader, rather than an administrator. It’s a completely different, and FAR more dynamic experience, one reason being leader’s tend to dispense with protocol to get things done, while administrators LEAN INTO protocol to make it APPEAR things are being done. Whenever they attempt to dispense with protocol, they do it hesitantly, and usually ineptly, which inspires them to run back to the safety of protocol. Admins are admins because they just don’t have “what it takes.”
Oddly, this virus is going to cement Trump’s second term as a given. Throughout this election nonsense, his media team will dredge up all of Obama’s poor choices, and Biden’s activated stupidity.
When an existential aspect to an election is up front and center, rhetoric won’t win the day. Protocol is a pussy’s errand. Say whatever you want about Obama, like him or not, everyone who is honest with themselves will admit he was nothing if not a glow-in-the-dark administrative, community organizing pussy. And Biden was always his apple-polishing weasel, with no authenticity worth considering.
Trump’s got this.
“We can make 10 billion N95 masks per month.”
can we? i think you overestimate 2020 America.
making medicine in America that is currently made in China would be the more useful manufacturing transition. relying on China for medicine should never, ever be a thing.
ventilators would be more useful than masks. not sure about production capability for those.
TONS of opportunity here for Trump and company to make their case. AMERICA FIRST. manufacturing HERE. jobs HERE. border secured HERE. no more 1 million random third world immigrants per YEAR.
coronavirus is the perfect chance to make the sale to America and shut out the Democrats.
How bout more and cheaper test kits? I have severe allergies this time of year and keep thinking I’ve caught the corona virus. I could test as often as once a week just to be sure!
I suspect that most bottlenecks are the “our manufacturing is mostly done overseas now” type. The people who know about the actual production bottlenecks are foreigners, as are the people who know how to fix them.
If we don't have any mask-building factories left in America any more, find a shuttered facility somewhere and start one up. Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the armed forces have plenty of people with a lot of expertise about how to handle a distrupted supply chain. Deploy them already.Replies: @Hemid, @Houston 1992, @Old and Grumpy, @Lugash
Rural Unemployment heads to 0% in one easy step!
PEACE 😇
_______
How about latex gloves? I haven’t heard much about gloves. Besides keeping a barrier between your hands and surfaces, they definitely remind you to not touch your face.
Unfortunately we are not now and never will be again the country we were in WWII.
This economic catastrophe are the resposbility of Trump, hsi adminstration, and all those who abscribe to his hatefull ideology.
You OWN it
I would be surprised if Trump hasn’t got the virus by now.
Watching Governor Cuomo of New York now, giving a news conference. He is far above your governor Psycho in California.
I say this as one opposed to both Cuomo and Psycho. Westchester County is right next door, with New Rochelle and its containment zone. The governor of New York is demonstrating effective leadership. I am willing to admit this in spite of the fact that I oppose him and his little brother Fredo at CNN.
Always be willing to give your opponents credit when it is due — and to work with them when it is necessary.
OTGovernor Cuomo - lying, genocidal/auto genocidal, the-worse-the-better, let-the-epidemic rage, crapweasel, Treasonous Evil Party Cuomo - just now gave an alarmingly good (just possibly 9/11-Giuliani, draft-dis guy for Presidential nomination good) , if deeply dishonest press conference. In brief he advocated "decentralization" of lab testing, meaning that states should be free of federal regs. He claimed that this would enable a large number of labs in New York to quickly begin to run a bazillion or so tests. MOREHe stated that he proposed this decentralization [deregulation] to Vice President Pence. One hopes that the Veep called him back minutes later (perhaps muttering to himself, "Damn him -wish I'd proposed this first." [assuming that he has not done so himself earlier]), "Go right ahead - issue your executive decrees, orders - whatever. I'll let all the other governors do the same. We won't fight you in court and will issue our own proclamations. You have my word on it. Good bye and good luck. [click]."We all (I am a "non-attorney spokesman for myself here) know in our bones that at some level law is MUSH - statutes, regulations, constitutional clauses, etc.,etc. - and can be used to justify just about anything. Most Leftists are arguably at least ambivalent with respect to Good 'N Evil (assuming they exist apart from our miserable imaginations) - meaning they can do some good in some situations - even if their ends are ultimately depraved.Yeah, mostly just wanted to be among the first to post along the lines above.
Brazilian President jairbolsonaro
– who spent the evening with realDonaldTrumpat Mar-a-Lago last Saturday – has tested POSITIVE for coronavirus
This is it
This man is TOTALLY INFIT for ffice
We HAVRE to get him out NOW
If you look at the CDC guidance on face masks, they are clearly geared toward very high standards. In particular, they seem to be setting standards for health care workers in normal times of abundance.
This seems to be what went on with the testing kits as well.’
But in times like this this attitude is all wrong. Sensible tradeoffs must be made. Plan Bs should be in place.
Really, they’ve made the perfect the enemy of the good.
Handwashing. Americans are pretty good (frequency-wise) at washing their hands, but the effectiveness of handwashing in public restrooms and restrooms in places like grocery stores is far from ideal due to a toxic combination of “green” initiatives and natural cheapness. Of all the things we shouldn’t skimp on in the name of Gaia, real soap, hot water, and paper towels in restrooms in buildings where lots of people gather are very close to the top of the list. But enviro fanatics have found willing allies in business and public government, etc., which would rather parse out a few micrograms of soap foam than keep restrooms supplied with an adequate supply of liquid soap. Which rarely provide hot water but instead just allow you a little sprinkle of sporadic cold water. And which rely on germ-spreading Dyson air blade dryers rather than more expensive paper towels.
A crash course to make businesses and public buildings go back to providing actual effective handwashing tools would be the most useful and relatively cheap tool to reduce the spread of COVID-19. Also other coronaviruses and cold viruses, and the flu. Obviously there are some bottlenecks here, especially the plumbing ones, but there are bottlenecks in any proposal. In addition to everything else, people will wash their hands longer and more thoroughly under a continuous stream of hot water than under a meager spray of cold water.
perfect example of how enviro-charm words conceal hidden agendas
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6rdXSon3688Replies: @James Speaks, @Coemgen
March 20 – Alferd G. Packer Day
Masks is exactly right.
Famed immunologist Dr. Akiko Iwasaki on twitter recently, “A mask will certainly keep your nose and mouth warmer and more humidified. I always wear a mask on international flights for this reason, where 10% relative humidity and closed environment makes for a perfect transmission incubator.”
https://www.foxnews.com/health/ohio-likely-has-100000-coronavirus-cases-top-health-official-says
OK so Ohio health official claims likely 100k infected but undiagnosed. They also claim a doubling of cases every 6 days.
So the deaths are happening now around the state? 100k didn’t magically appear. Where is the ICU flood? They are incorrectly logged as influenza cases?
Dr. Amy Acton, the director of the state’s health department, told reporters that the virus is “among us, but we can’t see it yet,”
WTF. If we trace back in time Ohio doubling math says it’s
100k cases Mar 12
50k cases Mar 6 6 days ago
25k cases Feb 29 12 days ago
12.5k cases Feb 23 18 days ago
So of the 12.5k there should be 10% severe cases (and 2% terminal) that are 18 days since infection on the ground in Ohio right now. Can this be denied?
Feb 23 infections in Ohio
12.5k case load statewide:
1250 severe ICU cases 10% (long term patients)
250 lethal cases 2% (already deceased?)
Obviously according to their math there should also be the additional 12 day old cases (25k total) on the ground right now. And if the 6 day old cases (50k total) are starting to call 911 and go to the hospital then present ICU situation is …
Mar 6 infections
50k total case load
5000 severe (10% cohort taking up long term bed space)
1000 lethal (2% some critical some already out to morgue?)
These numbers actually under estimate the workload at the hospitals … there’s another 10% that are moderate cases coming in requiring staff attention as per ~80% overall mild cases virus profile.
But she says… the virus is “among us, but we can’t see it yet,”
WTF. There should be an extra ~10,000 patients (many with very similar symptoms) in the Ohio system right now. Call it 5000 moderate, 5000 severe and 1000 terminal.
Important to realize many cases are fast moving. Just because incubation can last longer in some cases doesn’t mean they are all slow moving. It’s rational to assume the severe cases are on the fast track.
Conclusion: Ohio ICUs should already be stressed as hell. But we know they’re not because she says so.
The severe non lethal cases should be a major story already in Ohio. The cases should be arriving thru the door all the same as per Italy: bi-lateral interstitial pneumonia. Again and again over and over.
How to reconcile this.
-The 100k estimate is way high. PROJECT FEAR?
-New milder strain in Ohio?
-Older folks are not getting exposed yet in Ohio?
-Many infections not home grown? (Newly arrived in the state? Air traffic)
What’s going on? Seems Ohio epidemic is pointing to much lower actual rates of cases that end up in the ICU. Seems likely an outbreak with much milder impact than Italy has been underway for several weeks in Ohio.
I was impressed by Cuomo starting up hand sanitizer production in NY’s state prisons. Of course he got pushback from the anti-prison left who accused him of making the prisoners work as slave labor. They’re getting paid their usual extremely low prison wages for that job just as they are paid for working in the laundry, etc.
It looks more and more like we’ve learned nothing from history and the central banks are going to try and hyperinflate asset prices:
“There Will Be Liquidity, This Is Not 1987” Mnuchin Vows As He Urges Banks To Use Discount Window
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/there-will-be-liquidity-mnuchin-vows-he-urges-banks-use-discount-window
Why Are We Limit Up? Here’s A List Of All The Interventions Unveiled Overnight
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/why-are-we-limit-heres-list-all-interventions-unveiled-overnight
House Set For Friday Vote On Wuhan Coronavirus Spending Package
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/house-set-friday-vote-wuhan-coronavirus-spending-package
NY Fed Announces Emergency QE, Will Buy $33BN In Bonds; Yields Tumble
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/ny-fed-announces-emergency-qe-will-buy-33bn-bonds-yields-tumble
Ctrl-P and BTFD!
BTFD!!!!
I like it, you can even create “freedom to breath” ad campaigns.
They also remind you not to touch your face and to keep your hands off surfaces.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Sam Haysom, @frankie p
Exactly people are looking at masks the wrong way. They aren’t a hazmat suit for your face they are like a muzzle. This is especially important in a place like Asia with terrible hygiene practices.
Ok maybe maybe not but guess what someone wearing a mask doesn’t do. Take his cup back for refills, cough on a table or chair, forget to wash their hands. A mask makes you do all the little hygenic things that people often skip because they aren’t worried about infection. The second the mask goes on that laziness dissipates.
But Steve, masks won’t stop racism.
I’ll accept the premise but not the conclusion.
If we don’t have any mask-building factories left in America any more, find a shuttered facility somewhere and start one up. Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the armed forces have plenty of people with a lot of expertise about how to handle a distrupted supply chain. Deploy them already.
The days of a capable America died with Nafta. The capable American people died with legalized abortion and no fault divorce, which led to the rise of the matriarchy. Unfortunately feminism destroyed the intelligent and capable American woman. There is just too much to undo so as to deal with this bug. Basically those that can still do things are either Christian fundamentalists or over 60.Replies: @Jack D
I was reading that masks in an operating room aren’t really effective after about 15 minutes. Unless you change the filters and clean your mask every day, it’s wishful thinking. There will likely be a small reduction, but not much.
Free market, right.Replies: @El Dato, @Barnard, @Hypnotoad666
As of Noon Eastern Time, the Dow is only up 1% for the day. Could be in negative territory for the day by the time markets close.
I like to think of it as true price discovery, comrade!
Clearly, you’re barely able to manufacture your own poop, and with that occasional success, you’re willing to extrapolate your endeavor towards creating a plant, the machinery, the raw material, and the regulatory administrative procedures involved with “starting one up,” as easily as you pinching off your morning loaf.
Think harder.
If we don't have any mask-building factories left in America any more, find a shuttered facility somewhere and start one up. Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the armed forces have plenty of people with a lot of expertise about how to handle a distrupted supply chain. Deploy them already.Replies: @Hemid, @Houston 1992, @Old and Grumpy, @Lugash
What we don’t have left in America anymore is expertise in anything.
Candid, you’re on the money here. SARS-CoV-2 tests, especially if biased to err towards false positive, don’t need to be 99.99%, or whatever, accurate. It’s not like you’re going to administer an antidote/cure with potential harmful effects if misdiagnosed; you would simply quarantine unnecessarily. Not taking up a bed, not going on a ventilator, unless of course you really are in a bad way.
Looking back, it was a huge error to try and diffuse the severity of the threat by renaming the virus. “SARS” grabs everyone’s attention right quick, “Coronavirus” could be the name of a hip new cocktail🍹.
Here’s my OT coronavirus prediction. We are going to start seeing an explosion of fake virus reveals on social media. Attention whoring nitwits will post on social media that they have the virus, resulting in a flood of compassionate “oh noes!” and weepy “I’m praying for you” statements, which will spike their dopamine to record levels.
If you tried to open a manufacturing facility in the “can do” USA to make these urgently needed medical supplies today the local bureaucracy would throw obstacles in your path every step of the way . The media would feign outrage at the delays and then begin to rip you apart as soon as it looked like you were succeeding for environmental violations and exploiting the workers .
Does anybody remember when they had to shut down the skating rink in Central Park ? The City of New York estimated I think , three years till it would reopen . A local businessman said he would do it himself and pay for it . He got it done in 6 mos. and got his picture on the cover of New York Magazine standing in front of the newly reopened skating rink . Now the only thing that co*ksu*ker does in a hurry is tweet . In 2016 I voted for something now I’m back to voting against something .
Advice from my gorgeous wife, who also has a PHD in Biology (plant parasites):
Women should wear a lot of makeup.
Carefully apply lots of makeup, with clean hands.
Women with makeup NEVER touch their face.
Supporting evidence : Women are getting the virus at a lower rate than men, despite being more likely to come into contact with high risk groups.
That may be true for higher technology items like test kits, ventilators and respirators but not for simple things like masks, disinfectants, toilet paper etc., Any factory that can make paper/sanitary goods should be able to retool to make masks fairly quickly. Also, all the ethanol that is being burnt up by adding to gasoline can be used to produce disinfectants. It is really stupid to burn something that can be used to prevent infections.
[I saw the Buzz post a minute or two ago and have not made any changes (probably should have, though) to the below screed]
[the following has been delayed and made more unreadable than usual by an often delightful, but demanding 11 month-old germ factory grandchild]
OT
Governor Cuomo – lying, genocidal/auto genocidal, the-worse-the-better, let-the-epidemic rage, crapweasel, Treasonous Evil Party Cuomo – just now gave an alarmingly good (just possibly 9/11-Giuliani, draft-dis guy for Presidential nomination good) , if deeply dishonest press conference. In brief he advocated “decentralization” of lab testing, meaning that states should be free of federal regs. He claimed that this would enable a large number of labs in New York to quickly begin to run a bazillion or so tests.
MORE
He stated that he proposed this decentralization [deregulation] to Vice President Pence. One hopes that the Veep called him back minutes later (perhaps muttering to himself, “Damn him -wish I’d proposed this first.” [assuming that he has not done so himself earlier]), “Go right ahead – issue your executive decrees, orders – whatever. I’ll let all the other governors do the same. We won’t fight you in court and will issue our own proclamations. You have my word on it. Good bye and good luck. [click].”
We all (I am a “non-attorney spokesman for myself here) know in our bones that at some level law is MUSH – statutes, regulations, constitutional clauses, etc.,etc. – and can be used to justify just about anything. Most Leftists are arguably at least ambivalent with respect to Good ‘N Evil (assuming they exist apart from our miserable imaginations) – meaning they can do some good in some situations – even if their ends are ultimately depraved.
Yeah, mostly just wanted to be among the first to post along the lines above.
Steve, if you really think that all or most Americans are going to where masks everyday, you have been at your desk in the closet too long. Short of some kind of apocalyptic event like the Black Death of the Middle Ages, very few people will wear masks.
The good news is that we would only need to produce a tiny fraction of your billions of masks to meet demand. If this plan only works if most or all people wear masks, the bad news is that your plan won’t work.
Now in the US there would be some hard core psychos who would not care, but most normal people will abide with the law/social conventions if the alternative is to be bombarded with harassment every time you step outside your door. We just need Oprah and Brad Pitt to start wearing masks and then everyone else will fall in line.
For purposes of not SPREADING disease (rather than preventing yourself from getting it), surgical masks are sufficient and are very easy to make. N95s are not really needed by anyone other than medical workers in close contact with the sick.Replies: @Sam Haysom, @Federalist
An amusing thread from Black CNN. The comments are hilarious. Saw another tweet on “black twitter” from someone with 8,000 followers saying they hope only white people die from Coronovirus. At this time it has almost 50K likes.
“You’ve got to have masks, lots and lots of masks”.
(Apologies to the ‘Damned Yankees’).
Americans don’t seem to “get” the mask-wearing practice.
As I observed in Japan in the 1970s, they wear masks in public when they have a cold or other malady to prevent spreading it–as a courtesy to their fellow citizens. Japan is a supremely dense country–to practice social distancing would be an impossibility.
I’ve seen Asians follow that practice here in NYC on occasion (pre-dating Covid-19).
Definitely not an American behavioral trait.
One thing I haven’t seen much of is medical professionals discussing reducing ACE2 expression. ACE1 inhibitors may increase ACE2, the virus likes ACE2. Ibuprofen may also increase ACE2 along with smoking and pollution. Genetic factors are also not being discussed in the media.
Apparently, NYC is taking this outbreak very seriously.
I *hate* these people. (With a burning white hot hate.) Getting lectured by these thuggish mental midgets is like being bossed around by a willful 3-year old.
Separate nations.
By March 6 Italy had recorded 200 deaths. If we are like Italy, and a week behind, I would have expected 200 deaths in the United States by now.
That is not the case by a factor of 5.Replies: @El Dato
Perhaps we could use BROWN POWER to stop the virus….
“During WWII we” blahblah. Who is “we”? Are these “we” going to return from the grave? It’s been several decades since a large majority of Americans decided they’ll rather be waiters than do actual work. How many people making things with their hands do you know? How are among the stats among the fellow commentards, after excluding tinkering with those wooden coops you call homes?
You waz shipbuilderz, just as I am Apollodorus of Damascus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM6L092e0jUReplies: @syonredux, @Charlie_U
White Supremacist Cis-Hets are gonna get steamrolled by BROWN POWER:
https://www.thefader.com/2020/02/24/zeshan-b-brown-power-video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg4P6dLFUkQ
Just more social friction, which some people like.
Italy had it’s first coronavirus death on Feb 22nd. America had it’s first coronavirus death on Feb 29th.
By March 6 Italy had recorded 200 deaths. If we are like Italy, and a week behind, I would have expected 200 deaths in the United States by now.
That is not the case by a factor of 5.
This is not a poor enclave full of guest workers and tuberculosis-afflicted immigrants.
Maybe the population is particularly senior?This means a lot of people drive in in the morning and leave in the evening.This means a lot of rentiers in cushy positions and posh chairs.
Neoliberalism is allergic to this kind of thinking. Everything has to be complicated and financialized.
a total bullshit post from Matt O’Brien. this stuff is so frustrating. Trump and Senate Republicans? Trump has been OK compared to the alternative.
what are House Democrats doing? everything they can to OPEN THOSE BORDERS.
what would Biden do? OPEN THOSE BORDERS. borders don’t do anything to stop this stuff, Biden says on his twitter.
Senate Republicans don’t want to work with Democrats because Democrats want to pass their political agenda items in any emergency bills. as always, it’s 100% political, 100% destroy America for Democrats.
i’ll agree with one thing and one thing only. Republicans are missing their chance to completely win this issue from Democrats and win in 2020. make funding the wall an iron clad condition of any emergency bill. reducing legal immigration, ending work visas, introducing mandatory e-verify, medicine and medical manufacturing MUST be done in the US, and so forth.
Every comment Trump makes, the nature of every proposal he offers--from border closure and passenger screening/quarantines to repatriated and emergency production of vital medical supplies and equipment--must make the point that this crisis is the result of globalism.
This crisis is a stinging rebuke of globalism and the open borders world the Democrats incessantly push ... and of the abject incompetence of the establishment--the swamp--in being ready to handle an outbreak which their own policies made inevitable.
Every breath, every tweet from Trump should tie this to globalism and the Democrats and point out that this is just a foretaste and worse--much worse--is inevitable if the globalist/Democrats continue their war on America's borders and ergo its people.
And every policy proposal from Trump, should be aimed at both the immediate crisis--e.g. production of medical supplies, competitive vaccine development and speedy trials, optimized medical rules, etc. etc.--and re-making the USA into a nation with the borders and capability to defeat a more epidemic that is coming down the road. Hence, every proposal must include finishing the wall, mandatory E-verify, and an immigration moratorium--"jobs for Americans".
MAGAReplies: @anon
Father Pfleger is a real inspiration.
The “underlying medical conditions” which afflicted most of the forty-one individuals in the U.S. whose deaths are attributed to coronavirus appear to have rarely been made public.
One would think that information could be useful to others with the same or similar conditions, in assessing the risk to themselves and deciding what precautions to take.
OT, but are there any numbers that have been made public on the false positive/ false negative rates for the the various tests knocking around?
Isn’t that info pretty basic to understanding what’s going on?
in the press conference today the one scientist said the tests in South Korea detected Covid 19 at a 3% to 4% rate but the new test that the Trump task force developed is detecting it at a 1% to 2% rate.
i wasn't clear on whether that meant the Korean version gave twice as many false positives, or whether twice as many people being tested actually had it.
If we don't have any mask-building factories left in America any more, find a shuttered facility somewhere and start one up. Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the armed forces have plenty of people with a lot of expertise about how to handle a distrupted supply chain. Deploy them already.Replies: @Hemid, @Houston 1992, @Old and Grumpy, @Lugash
Engineering and implementing mass production is hardly simple when the entire ecosystem has disappeared: engineers , managers , production staff , suppliers , analytical instruments
If production were simple why did Toyota Honda humble GM Ford ? Why did Intel, Philips give up on DRAM chips in 1986? And they had working factories ….
The lawyers and MBAs who dominate US government and industry understand less and less about manufacturing. The B Schools and consultancies have embraced “fab lite “ “small footprint .” They embraced outsourcing to Asia like a religion
It's the building and maintenance of a pipeline.
If there’s one thing Trump has done right during his administration, it’s “China Tariffs”. Or more correctly, getting China 🇨🇳 to at least minimize the tariff/taxes/import charges on goods brought into their country. Prior to Trump almost nothing brought into the US from China carried any tariff, zip, nada. We, the US, and all other countries, as far as I am aware, could not legally sell so much as a toothpick in China without a hefty levy being attached.
And speaking of toothpicks, if a US based manufacturer were to ship one, or 10 million, to China, the shipping cost would make that a non-starter. When a manufacturer in China ships toothpicks over here it’s practically cost free to them. The Chinese government uses a significant portion of those import tariffs to subsidize the shipping of thier exports. In other words, we are footing the bill for their shipping. Ever wonder how it is that an EBay seller in China can send you a two bit product, all the way across an ocean and straight into your mailbox, for “free”? Red Government paid shipping.
Perhaps a “benevolent” case could be made for that lopsided tariff policy in 2000, when China’s GDP was $1.5T USD, and needed help; but it is now insane as China’s economy is approaching ours ($17T vs $20T), just a short 2 decades later.
In any event, let’s hope if there is any nugget of good to come out the other side of this current crisis, it’s a little more “non enemy state” production.
It's going to take something much more persuasive than your comment to convince me that the American talent base and infrastructure is somehow insufficient for that.
It's going to take something much more persuasive than your comment to convince me that the American talent base and infrastructure is somehow insufficient for that.
Also gloves.
“Tests are complicated, hand sanitizer is absurdly simple, masks are somewhere in the middle.”
Agreed – and in the UK, hand sanitiser and masks have vanished.
Disposable masks aren’t hard to make, even if they aren’t operating theatre grade. But do we make them, or are they all imported?
Hand sanitiser is so easy to make I’m thinking of knocking some up myself if supplies don’t improve. Ethanol, bit of glycerine and the gelling agent ‘carbomer’ aka this stuff, which you’d have to order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyacrylic_acid
People in the UK are waking up to the government’s “let God sort them out” policy. By early next week I expect a major reaction.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/13/why-is-the-government-relying-on-nudge-theory-to-tackle-coronavirus
Agreed, and this is a no-brainer.
Trumps wants to Make America Great Again.
Trump needs to issue directives to Make America Manufacture Masks.
Many of those Liberty Ships just split in half due to design flaws and construction shortcuts. But those problems shouldn’tt be factors in the mass production of a simple thing like a mask. As long as it isn’t lined with asbestos.
If we don't have any mask-building factories left in America any more, find a shuttered facility somewhere and start one up. Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the armed forces have plenty of people with a lot of expertise about how to handle a distrupted supply chain. Deploy them already.Replies: @Hemid, @Houston 1992, @Old and Grumpy, @Lugash
The Amish could probably crank them out in their little factories. Problem is they won’t be diverse enough. Nor are they big on inspectors. Can we do anything without a “mother may I” managerial class butting in these days? Doubtful. And finally, where will all the transaction fees come from? We wouldn’t want the likes of Michael Bloomberg not getting their cuts.
The days of a capable America died with Nafta. The capable American people died with legalized abortion and no fault divorce, which led to the rise of the matriarchy. Unfortunately feminism destroyed the intelligent and capable American woman. There is just too much to undo so as to deal with this bug. Basically those that can still do things are either Christian fundamentalists or over 60.
No mention of anything that gets better with all this added melanin.
Just more social friction, which some people like.
It depends on the test; this one has an 11.34% false negative and 9.37% false positive rate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM6L092e0jUReplies: @syonredux, @Charlie_U
Well, sorry, Zeshan, but your music sucks.
Zeshan? Zeshan’t, more like.
Now check out the downvotes on your vid, take the hint, then piss off, you gormless ingrate.
Agree.
It’s the building and maintenance of a pipeline.
You would be surprised how quickly social conventions can change if there is social pressure. In China now if you walk down the street without a mask, people will call you out on it, shout at you, shame you, threaten you with violence, call the cops, etc.
Now in the US there would be some hard core psychos who would not care, but most normal people will abide with the law/social conventions if the alternative is to be bombarded with harassment every time you step outside your door. We just need Oprah and Brad Pitt to start wearing masks and then everyone else will fall in line.
For purposes of not SPREADING disease (rather than preventing yourself from getting it), surgical masks are sufficient and are very easy to make. N95s are not really needed by anyone other than medical workers in close contact with the sick.
Also not everyone on the Home Front was pulling for the war effort. Even people doing essential war work went on labor strikes for petty reasons. In August of ’44, the (largely Irish-American) transit workers of Philadelphia went on strike because the transit company was having trouble finding enough drivers and wanted to allow some of their Negro employees (who were up until then employed as car cleaners) to drive trolleys. Roosevelt ended up sending in the Army to drive the trolleys so that people could get to work at defense plants.
I suggest that Trump extend the October deadline for requiring a RealID driver’s license to fly. We don’t want crowds of sick people in DMV offices if we can avoid it.
A RealID is pretty stupid in the first place because we’ve survived without it since 9/11 and knowing a person’s physical address at one moment in time, with no enforceable requirement that people report changes of address, is a pretty useless piece of information. And it would be trivial for any terrorist worth his terroristic salt to fake his physical address.
However, I agree RealID is stupid. If the Federal government really wants foolproof security, they should make passport cards free or affordable instead of piling on State DMVs. It is lot easier to track and trace passport cards with RFID instead of 50+ disparate RealIDs from DMVs.Replies: @Anonymous
OT: At a time when the objective tenets of the hard sciences show their value in situations of life and death, Angela Saini gets the headline article in Nature (Got it straight in my inbox) that she feels science isn’t biased enough, or rather biased in the way she’d prefer but she autistically claims it’s not she who is ideologically biased, it’s the hard scientists…
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00669-2
Want to do better science? Admit you’re not objective
When science is viewed in isolation from the past and politics, it’s easier for those with bad intentions to revive dangerous and discredited ideas.
And on and on, it’s all so tiresome.
She should be disposed of on the trasheap of history, which is currently developing fast. This is the epoch of disease spreading, not man spreading.
"The first principle is not to fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." - R.P. FeynmanReplies: @Altai
The days of a capable America died with Nafta. The capable American people died with legalized abortion and no fault divorce, which led to the rise of the matriarchy. Unfortunately feminism destroyed the intelligent and capable American woman. There is just too much to undo so as to deal with this bug. Basically those that can still do things are either Christian fundamentalists or over 60.Replies: @Jack D
I would not count on the Amish to produce anything that requires sterility. If you get up close to the Amish you realize that they are kind of filthy, as all primitive farm people are. They have little notion of sanitation. They are used to being around animal excrement.
A crash course to make businesses and public buildings go back to providing actual effective handwashing tools would be the most useful and relatively cheap tool to reduce the spread of COVID-19. Also other coronaviruses and cold viruses, and the flu. Obviously there are some bottlenecks here, especially the plumbing ones, but there are bottlenecks in any proposal. In addition to everything else, people will wash their hands longer and more thoroughly under a continuous stream of hot water than under a meager spray of cold water.Replies: @RegretLeft
“…germ-spreading … air blade dryers” – Quite so! … you walk into a crowded public restroom where 4 or 5 of them are going – you are walking into a haze of airborne pathogens –
perfect example of how enviro-charm words conceal hidden agendas
Now in the US there would be some hard core psychos who would not care, but most normal people will abide with the law/social conventions if the alternative is to be bombarded with harassment every time you step outside your door. We just need Oprah and Brad Pitt to start wearing masks and then everyone else will fall in line.
For purposes of not SPREADING disease (rather than preventing yourself from getting it), surgical masks are sufficient and are very easy to make. N95s are not really needed by anyone other than medical workers in close contact with the sick.Replies: @Sam Haysom, @Federalist
Exactly people don’t wear masks in the West because mask wearing is associated with Asians and Asians in the US have the double mark of low status/ low cool factor and also nerdiness. Convince people that wearing masks doesn’t make you look asian and people will wear masks.
Free market, right.Replies: @El Dato, @Barnard, @Hypnotoad666
If everyone is supposed to eventually get the virus anyway, why not schedule and manage the process. Young and healthy people could volunteer for deliberate infection, which would be accompanied by a plan for medical attention (as necessary) and quarantine.
They could schedule time off from work ahead of time and make it a vacation (albeit one where you are sick). The benefit is that once you get it over with you are immune and can go about your life normally. Plus, once enough people have gone through the voluntary infection process the community will develop the much sought-after “herd immunity.”* (Perhaps immune people could get a special wrist-band or ID card or something so that they can congregate freely and others don’t have to keep them at a “social distance.”)
Apparently, for young and healthy people it’s hardly worse than the regular flu. If they are willing to step up and “take one for the team” we can get to herd immunity without putting the old and sick at risk. And the number of cases can be planned so as not to over-tax the medical system.
Aside from the benefit of “getting it over with” there could be financial or other incentives. Maybe all the infected people could go on a “quarantine cruise” together on the currently-empty cruise liners, or all fly together and stay at a luxury hotel together — since all that infrastructure is currently going to waste.
*Has anyone done the math on herd immunity for this virus? In other words, what percentage of the population would have to be immune to keep Ro < 1?
“soap”
I was at the grocery store this morning. Toilet paper shelves were empty, but in the next aisle over plenty of soap. I bought some ice cream.
If everyone in public were required to wear the kind of cheap masks you see in China, not the kind that protect the wearer but the kind that protect the people you are interacting with, wouldn’t that reduce the RO number, which is a major goal?
We hear that masks are really ineffective just because they are only 80% effective. If two people have masks then the transmission between them would be just 4%.
Masks alone, if worn by everyone, would almost certainly bring the r-value below 1. The outbreak has stopped in China and Korea.
Importantly, masks give people a high personal humidity, which seems key to making people less susceptible.
Mostly because lockdown (mass quarantine) will destroy so much of the economy that that alone will cost many lives will it not? Where are the die-off-from-despair models on total economic standstill?
And the virus death rates are exaggerated due to mild unreported cases. The Ohio health official who estimated a million cases already in the state is probably in the ballpark.
The virus is constantly mutating. Perhaps we are already in a phase of less lethal strains as new facts on the ground. I say this because the American ICUs are still operating normally...
Bottom line is the Italian debacle could still turn out to be an extreme outlier. Merkle wasn't lying in her prediction of mass infection in Germany but look at the declining death rate.Replies: @DanHessinMD, @hhsiii
“Mostly because lockdown (mass quarantine) will destroy so much of the economy that that alone will cost many lives will it not? Where are the die-off-from-despair models on total economic standstill? ”
Yup.
The worst punishment that exists in the world is solitary confinement. So much so that it is regarded as torture by the UN.
“I like the mega masks plan + educated reality (not PROJECT FEAR) + herd immunity plan.”
This is the only reasonable answer, history will show. Airplanes are currently supervectors of disease (one person can infect a huge number of others on a long flight with dry air) but if you humidify the cabin and everyone wears masks, a flight will be fine.
As I observed in Japan in the 1970s, they wear masks in public when they have a cold or other malady to prevent spreading it--as a courtesy to their fellow citizens. Japan is a supremely dense country--to practice social distancing would be an impossibility.
I've seen Asians follow that practice here in NYC on occasion (pre-dating Covid-19).Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
“as a courtesy to their fellow citizens”
Definitely not an American behavioral trait.
Trump is speaking. He sounds terrible. Does he have it?
Nat. emergency.
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
We hear that masks are really ineffective just because they are only 80% effective. If two people have masks then the transmission between them would be just 4%.
Masks alone, if worn by everyone, would almost certainly bring the r-value below 1. The outbreak has stopped in China and Korea.
Importantly, masks give people a high personal humidity, which seems key to making people less susceptible.
Houston 1992, Intel gave up because they had to (see below).
If there’s one thing Trump has done right during his administration, it’s “China Tariffs”. Or more correctly, getting China 🇨🇳 to at least minimize the tariff/taxes/import charges on goods brought into their country. Prior to Trump almost nothing brought into the US from China carried any tariff, zip, nada. We, the US, and all other countries, as far as I am aware, could not legally sell so much as a toothpick in China without a hefty levy being attached.
And speaking of toothpicks, if a US based manufacturer were to ship one, or 10 million, to China, the shipping cost would make that a non-starter. When a manufacturer in China ships toothpicks over here it’s practically cost free to them. The Chinese government uses a significant portion of those import tariffs to subsidize the shipping of thier exports. In other words, we are footing the bill for their shipping. Ever wonder how it is that an EBay seller in China can send you a two bit product, all the way across an ocean and straight into your mailbox, for “free”? Red Government paid shipping.
Perhaps a “benevolent” case could be made for that lopsided tariff policy in 2000, when China’s GDP was $1.5T USD, and needed help; but it is now insane as China’s economy is approaching ours ($17T vs $20T), just a short 2 decades later.
In any event, let’s hope if there is any nugget of good to come out the other side of this current crisis, it’s a little more “non enemy state” production.
Sure, but our rat-bastard oligarchs will outsource production to Sri Lanka and Vietnam to save three cents per mask.
And create all sorts of demographic, social, and economic problems.
No to mention render sex pointless.
And sex will be fine. I understand vampires enjoy it and they live for centuries. :)Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Maybe just packing your nose with cotton and wearing safety goggles is enough. Enzymes in saliva do a good job inhibiting virus particles so chew gum. Cotton is cheaper and more readily available than disposable face masks and safety glasses can be disinfected frequently in a bleach solution.
Isn’t it true that approximately 99% of the people who have died from this virus are over 50? And isn’t the chance of dying around 0.5% if you are under 50? That’s only a few tenths of a percentage point higher than the regular flu.
I only write this in an attempt to provide reassurance to most of the readership here who are 50 and under. I do feel for you Boomers and I’m not trying to be anti-ageist, but I just want to give some perspective.
How about a quarantine for old people and people with pre-existing conditions?
My office has issued a policy where only half us will be at the office at any given time, with the other half working from home.
It stinks.
Totally anti-social.
I wonder, is it necessary.
Kids don’t seem to get sick or die of this disease. Do schools need to be closed?
Can’t we just have substitute teachers for all the elderly ones?
The humidity element is powerful and obvious. If you get COVID-19 and hospitals can’t handle things, humidity may be the one thing you can do you help survive.
Sadly, again the perfect is the enemy of the good. Humidity has incredibly strong support but not perfect proof in the literature. So scientists just throw up their hands and say it’s hopeless. This is absurd. All of the tropical countries are fine. The virus ***cannot cannot cannot*** thrive in warm, humid conditions. This is the most blindingly obvious thing in medical history. Make it humid and you’ll be fine. Wake up everyone!!
Once again, my writeup:
Humidity helps in the fight against COVID-19, virologists report
What can the public do to defend against the COVID-19 coronavirus? One simple answer is to ramp up humidification at home and in the workplace, if humidity levels are low. Hospitals treating cases of viral respiratory infection may be advised to do the same.
Why has the novel coronavirus COVID-19 had only a minimal impact in tropical countries while temperate zone countries such as China, Korea, Italy, Iran and the United States have suffered outbreaks? Humidity, and especially indoor humidity, seems to hold the key.
In 2019, a research team at Yale University Medical School published a groundbreaking study (Kudo et al., National Academy of Sciences, 2019) which showed how low ambient humidity hurts the ability of the immune system to fight respiratory viral infection in animal hosts. As Yale immunologist Akiko Iwasaki repeatedly has tweeted, winter months require indoor heating, which leads to low indoor humidity, which in turn leads to reduced mucociliary clearance and innate antiviral immunity, resulting in more respiratory virus in the lungs and increased mortality. Dr. Nancy Gough of Johns Hopkins University explained the Yale study thus (Medium, March 1, 2020): “When the temperature drops, the heat comes on. This reduces the amount of humidity in the air. It turns out this isn’t just uncomfortable; it also impairs the innate immune system in the respiratory tract.”
What do all the places with severe community COVID-19 outbreaks have in common? As a group of U.S. and Iranian researchers (Sajadi et al. (2020)) concluded in a new study posted for review on March 9, 2020, “To date, Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by SARS-CoV-2, has established significant community spread in cities and regions only along a narrow east west distribution roughly along the 30-50 N” corridor at consistently similar weather patterns”. In each of the locations of significant community spread identified by the researchers, indoor humidity ranged from about 20% to 30% in the weeks prior to outbreak, which is fairly dry. “Because of geographical proximity and significant travel connections, epidemiological modeling of the epicenter predicted that regions in Southeast Asia, and specifically Bangkok would follow Wuhan, and China in the epidemic.” Instead, the researchers noted, “COVID-19 failed to spread significantly to countries immediately south of China.”
Dr. Gough further explained the importance of humidity, “The epithelial cells have small cellular protrusions called cilia that move the mucus to promote clearance of pathogens and particles that enter the respiratory system. Analysis of the mucus in the trachea showed that infection in low humidity resulted in the inability to of the cilia on the epithelial cells to move it. The low humidity made the mucus too thick.”
What can you do when low humidity is unavoidable? Explained Dr. Iwasaki, “A mask will certainly keep your nose and mouth warmer and more humidified. I always wear a mask on international flights for this reason, where 10% relative humidity and closed environment makes for a perfect transmission incubator.”
What should be the target humidity? The Yale team found that 50% ambient humidity at room temperature led to dramatically increased survival in their animal subjects. What if a humidifier is not available? A large pot of water carefully kept at a low boil can humidify dry winter air to healthy levels.
This new research suggests that warmer, more humid weather will soon bring relief to countries now affected by COVID-19. Until then, indoor humidification and the use of facemasks may save many lives and ultimately help the world turn the corner in the fight against this epidemic.
Key Citations:
1. Kudo et al. (2019) Low ambient humidity impairs barrier function and innate resistance against influenza infection. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2019
2. Gough, March 1, 2020. Fighting the Flu with Humidity: Researchers discover immune system benefits of humidity.
https://medium.com/@ngough_bioserendipity/fight Fighting the Flu with Humidity
Researchers discover immune system benefits of humiditying-the-flu-with-humidity-28d4ccb42bd7
3. Sajadi et al. (2020) Temperature and Latitude Analysis to Predict Potential Spread and Seasonality for COVID-19
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3550308
I think another thing is to come up with MacGuyver solutions. I don’t know how effective they are, but tinfoil masks (Yes, I know) were being suggested by some as stop-gaps.
Or do this...
http://www.thefocuspull.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/sleeper.jpg
I would never say sex was pointless, nor that it serves no end.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00669-2
Want to do better science? Admit you’re not objective
When science is viewed in isolation from the past and politics, it’s easier for those with bad intentions to revive dangerous and discredited ideas.
And on and on, it's all so tiresome.
https://i.imgur.com/OM9Zt8t.jpgReplies: @El Dato, @Faraday's Bobcat
Fugg her. Irrelevant, nasty and wrong.
She should be disposed of on the trasheap of history, which is currently developing fast. This is the epoch of disease spreading, not man spreading.
Aluminum foil might be good for sealing around the mouth but what about filtration? I suppose you could cut a hole and tape filter paper over it.
Or do this…
It’s a “Sun People” revival.
A caste system has many tables. Which one are we talking about.
Now in the US there would be some hard core psychos who would not care, but most normal people will abide with the law/social conventions if the alternative is to be bombarded with harassment every time you step outside your door. We just need Oprah and Brad Pitt to start wearing masks and then everyone else will fall in line.
For purposes of not SPREADING disease (rather than preventing yourself from getting it), surgical masks are sufficient and are very easy to make. N95s are not really needed by anyone other than medical workers in close contact with the sick.Replies: @Sam Haysom, @Federalist
This isn’t China. Most people won’t wear masks.
By March 6 Italy had recorded 200 deaths. If we are like Italy, and a week behind, I would have expected 200 deaths in the United States by now.
That is not the case by a factor of 5.Replies: @El Dato
I notice that San Marino (pop 33’000) has declared 69 cases, of which 5 have been fatal so far.
This is not a poor enclave full of guest workers and tuberculosis-afflicted immigrants.
Maybe the population is particularly senior?
This means a lot of people drive in in the morning and leave in the evening.
This means a lot of rentiers in cushy positions and posh chairs.
https://preview.redd.it/9ytmuqp5abm41.jpg?width=576&auto=webp&s=8f4642d0b70b17066d0d761dd1d2b333fb36ecb9Replies: @Altai, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned
You see these kinds of signs on public transport in many European countries. I’ve never once seen a person engage in an act of ‘racism’ against a non-white. Classic frontlash.
It won’t serve to deter somebody inclined to it, (The whole of society and education is deigned to drill anti-racism into the natives heads) it’s designed to shame the native people from having any collective expression of self-interest.
But the CCP stars on it can’t be real can it?
Why wouldn't the CCP endorse de Blasio? The Working Families Party did, twice. The CCP is somewhere to their right.
It's real.
https://twitter.com/BreakinNewsBoy/status/1237401467377639429
Convince people that wearing a mask isn’t hot, uncomfortable, inconvenient, and stupid looking, then people will wear masks. But you won’t convince most people and most people won’t wear masks.
And, most predictably, the Fed pumped it at the beginning of the weak sauce news conference, right into and through the close.
I like to think of it as true price discovery, comrade!
According to the President’s staff in his news conference this afternoon, the ventilator issue is being explicitly addressed. They are figuring out what they have in the DoD and other federal agencies, state agencies and hospitals. They are working on constructing new ones, even if they ultimately won’t be used.
False alarm news: I came down with what I hope is a regular cold on Thursday, they told me to take me to take Friday off and we’ll see what happens over the weekend.
Spot on PN.
Every comment Trump makes, the nature of every proposal he offers–from border closure and passenger screening/quarantines to repatriated and emergency production of vital medical supplies and equipment–must make the point that this crisis is the result of globalism.
This crisis is a stinging rebuke of globalism and the open borders world the Democrats incessantly push … and of the abject incompetence of the establishment–the swamp–in being ready to handle an outbreak which their own policies made inevitable.
Every breath, every tweet from Trump should tie this to globalism and the Democrats and point out that this is just a foretaste and worse–much worse–is inevitable if the globalist/Democrats continue their war on America’s borders and ergo its people.
And every policy proposal from Trump, should be aimed at both the immediate crisis–e.g. production of medical supplies, competitive vaccine development and speedy trials, optimized medical rules, etc. etc.–and re-making the USA into a nation with the borders and capability to defeat a more epidemic that is coming down the road. Hence, every proposal must include finishing the wall, mandatory E-verify, and an immigration moratorium–“jobs for Americans”.
MAGA
https://preview.redd.it/9ytmuqp5abm41.jpg?width=576&auto=webp&s=8f4642d0b70b17066d0d761dd1d2b333fb36ecb9Replies: @Altai, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned
Boot-face.
I *hate* these people. (With a burning white hot hate.) Getting lectured by these thuggish mental midgets is like being bossed around by a willful 3-year old.
Separate nations.
It might also discourage transmission from cough and sneezes
@1:55 the Gov of New Jersey demonstrates how to sneeze into your jacket sleeve.
Just finished watching the President’s press conference on the Covid-19 outbreak. Most shocking, but least surprising, is the behavior of the women of the mainstream media. Based on the questions asked by these women, the most important part of the response to this novel coronavirus is whether the president did anything wrong, and if so will he take responsibility.
I’ve said this before, that the mainstream media have replaced their news bureaus with Hate Trump machines, and that’s all they can do.
OT:
Former FL gubernatorial candidate has performance issues at meth-fueled, gay, no-tell hotel orgy, needs assistance from police, EMTs:
Former FL Governor Candidate Andrew Gillum Involved In Meth Overdose Incident
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/andrew-gillum-involved-meth-overdose-incident-miami-beach-hotel
Gee. COVID-19. Hmm.
Let’s never forget these people seeing this exclusively as a political opportunity. There’s an explosion of journalists and their ilk insisting that the Trump presidency is over, that the latest speech was the worst speech ever given, that this is all Trump’s fault: these are reliably people who wanted open borders and the domination of trade and industry by China.
At least two recent anti-East Asian incidents, both almost certainly involving blacks: in one a black guy Febreezed an Asian.
My grandfather was one of those guys who died of asbestos in the shipyards
Well, Pritzker just shut down all schools in Illinois until April 1st, and wants all gatherings of 1000+ people banned until May.
I really appreciate everyone’s efforts in drumming up this pathetic hysteria. (Drudge is in full apocalyptic teenage girl mode.) The credit card companies REALLY appreciate it, as well as the health care racket. Don’t forget amazon, now selling 2 packs of toilet paper for 496 dollars.
The rich have the money to buy their way out of this and the poor will continue to get their gibs, and government workers will get sent home but still get paid. Once again, the middle class gets fucked.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00669-2
Want to do better science? Admit you’re not objective
When science is viewed in isolation from the past and politics, it’s easier for those with bad intentions to revive dangerous and discredited ideas.
And on and on, it's all so tiresome.
https://i.imgur.com/OM9Zt8t.jpgReplies: @El Dato, @Faraday's Bobcat
The assumption that man is not objective is pretty much the starting point of modern science.
“The first principle is not to fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.” – R.P. Feynman
Whereas economics and soft sciences have a hard time coming up with validating experiments and tend to follow guruism and schools of thought that are entirely suffused with the prejudices of their originators.
Gloves and masks? Michael Jackson was ahead of his time.
My first month working in Europe, one of the more senior execs with whom I worked got a relatively garden variety case of the flu and stayed out for a week. I remember joking with the others that in the US you had to call in dead to stay out for a week.
You are permitted to run on more than one party line in New York, unlike almost every other state. Joe Lhota ran on four against de Blasio in 2013. FDR ran on three in 1940 and 1944, and needed to. He didn’t get enough Democratic votes to top Willkie or Dewey.
Why wouldn’t the CCP endorse de Blasio? The Working Families Party did, twice. The CCP is somewhere to their right.
OK so Ohio health official claims likely 100k infected but undiagnosed. They also claim a doubling of cases every 6 days.
So the deaths are happening now around the state? 100k didn't magically appear. Where is the ICU flood? They are incorrectly logged as influenza cases?
Dr. Amy Acton, the director of the state’s health department, told reporters that the virus is “among us, but we can’t see it yet,”
WTF. If we trace back in time Ohio doubling math says it's
100k cases Mar 12
50k cases Mar 6 6 days ago
25k cases Feb 29 12 days ago
12.5k cases Feb 23 18 days ago
So of the 12.5k there should be 10% severe cases (and 2% terminal) that are 18 days since infection on the ground in Ohio right now. Can this be denied?
Feb 23 infections in Ohio
12.5k case load statewide:
1250 severe ICU cases 10% (long term patients)
250 lethal cases 2% (already deceased?)
Obviously according to their math there should also be the additional 12 day old cases (25k total) on the ground right now. And if the 6 day old cases (50k total) are starting to call 911 and go to the hospital then present ICU situation is ...
Mar 6 infections
50k total case load
5000 severe (10% cohort taking up long term bed space)
1000 lethal (2% some critical some already out to morgue?)
These numbers actually under estimate the workload at the hospitals ... there's another 10% that are moderate cases coming in requiring staff attention as per ~80% overall mild cases virus profile.
But she says... the virus is “among us, but we can’t see it yet,”
WTF. There should be an extra ~10,000 patients (many with very similar symptoms) in the Ohio system right now. Call it 5000 moderate, 5000 severe and 1000 terminal.
Important to realize many cases are fast moving. Just because incubation can last longer in some cases doesn't mean they are all slow moving. It's rational to assume the severe cases are on the fast track.
Conclusion: Ohio ICUs should already be stressed as hell. But we know they're not because she says so.
The severe non lethal cases should be a major story already in Ohio. The cases should be arriving thru the door all the same as per Italy: bi-lateral interstitial pneumonia. Again and again over and over.
How to reconcile this.
-The 100k estimate is way high. PROJECT FEAR?
-New milder strain in Ohio?
-Older folks are not getting exposed yet in Ohio?
-Many infections not home grown? (Newly arrived in the state? Air traffic)
What's going on? Seems Ohio epidemic is pointing to much lower actual rates of cases that end up in the ICU. Seems likely an outbreak with much milder impact than Italy has been underway for several weeks in Ohio.Replies: @prime noticer
“OK so Ohio health official claims likely 100k infected but undiagnosed.”
very likely they were simply not correct.
i mean in one way that would be good news, a hundred thousand cases and zero deaths. but i think they just quoted the wrong number, period. an incorrect estimate. have there even been 100,000 confirmed cases in the rest of the world total.
No to mention render sex pointless.Replies: @RichardTaylor
Life extension is going to happen at some point. As far as problems, we just need to keep increasing the carrying load of the planet which can be many times higher with technology.
And sex will be fine. I understand vampires enjoy it and they live for centuries. 🙂
If humidity is the answer, wouldn’t I-95 be a better route to take– literally? To South Carolina.
Not quite yet, though:
https://championtraveler.com/dates/best-time-to-visit-south-carolina-us/
Nah, I say grab the cameras.
Mostly because lockdown (mass quarantine) will destroy so much of the economy that that alone will cost many lives will it not? Where are the die-off-from-despair models on total economic standstill?
And the virus death rates are exaggerated due to mild unreported cases. The Ohio health official who estimated a million cases already in the state is probably in the ballpark.
The virus is constantly mutating. Perhaps we are already in a phase of less lethal strains as new facts on the ground. I say this because the American ICUs are still operating normally...
Bottom line is the Italian debacle could still turn out to be an extreme outlier. Merkle wasn't lying in her prediction of mass infection in Germany but look at the declining death rate.Replies: @DanHessinMD, @hhsiii
Less deaths in recession. People stop driving as much.
Tom Hanks? First on Omaha Beach, first on Virus front.
They also remind you not to touch your face and to keep your hands off surfaces.Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Sam Haysom, @frankie p
Yes, Elli. You’re spot on. I live in Taiwan, and I wear a mask every day. In my early days in this country, I refused to wear a mask, even when I had a cold. I thought it was uncomfortable and interfered with my breathing. Now I realize that my thinking was some form of cultural mental block. One becomes accustomed to wearing the surgical mask quickly. Your statement about the multiplication of the effect when everyone wears one is the most important statement. You can see some of the responses saying that only the sick should wear the mask, but this is a knee-jerk, illogical fallacy. The problem is that many of the sick aren’t sick in that they are displaying no symptoms and are unaware of their own infection, yet they are still spreading it. The fact of the matter is that if everyone is wearing a mask, all the sick people are wearing masks. And the masks DO remind the wearer not the touch the mouth and nose. Adjusting the mask does not involve touching the nose or mouth.
My anecdote from yesterday: I went to teach a corporate class in a business building (24 floors) here in Kaohsiung, the large port city here in southern Taiwan. In the lobby of the building, they have set up a temperature screening machine. Everyone who enters the building must walk through a rather wide entrance and the security guard has the readout at his desk. Anyone not wearing a mask is denied entry. I do not feel inconvenienced or violated by this procedure; on the contrary, I realize that these small actions are what have allowed Taiwan to combat the spread of this monster.
On Thursday, January 23 I flew from Okinawa to Kaohsiung, Taiwan, returning from a short vacation. At that time, Taiwan had ONE confirmed case of COVID-19, then referred to as the Wuhan Coronavirus. Every passenger on the plane was wearing a mask. Today is Saturday, March 14 over here, and Taiwan has 50 confirmed cases. Taiwan is a success story in fighting the spread. I am appalled by the reaction of western “leaders”. They are not leaders. Merkel told the German people that there would probably be infection rates of 70% of the population. This is irresponsible and idiotic. She should be imploring them to take actions to halt or slow the spread.
Plenty of scope for repurposing exists:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ES8-4ZVXkAE1FOX?format=jpg&name=small
Masks are an obvious way to prevent the spread and transmission of disease. It’s crazy that people western countries are being told that they “don’t work” or more ambiguously, “there is no evidence” that they work. Meanwhile the Far-East has widespread masking.
If governments had the guts to admit that there is a shortage, and that masks need to be rationed so that they can be given to healthcare workers, it would be better than widespread deception, because after masks do become widely available, we want them to be used widely.
“OT, but are there any numbers that have been made public on the false positive/ false negative rates for the the various tests knocking around?”
in the press conference today the one scientist said the tests in South Korea detected Covid 19 at a 3% to 4% rate but the new test that the Trump task force developed is detecting it at a 1% to 2% rate.
i wasn’t clear on whether that meant the Korean version gave twice as many false positives, or whether twice as many people being tested actually had it.
As I've always maintained, Obama is an administrator, he's not a leader. Never has been, never will be. An administrator's mindset is quite different from a leader. Those reading can recall when they worked for a leader, rather than an administrator. It's a completely different, and FAR more dynamic experience, one reason being leader's tend to dispense with protocol to get things done, while administrators LEAN INTO protocol to make it APPEAR things are being done. Whenever they attempt to dispense with protocol, they do it hesitantly, and usually ineptly, which inspires them to run back to the safety of protocol. Admins are admins because they just don't have "what it takes."
Oddly, this virus is going to cement Trump's second term as a given. Throughout this election nonsense, his media team will dredge up all of Obama's poor choices, and Biden's activated stupidity.
When an existential aspect to an election is up front and center, rhetoric won't win the day. Protocol is a pussy's errand. Say whatever you want about Obama, like him or not, everyone who is honest with themselves will admit he was nothing if not a glow-in-the-dark administrative, community organizing pussy. And Biden was always his apple-polishing weasel, with no authenticity worth considering.
Trump's got this.Replies: @Ron Mexico, @J.Ross
As an educator for 25+ years I completely agree with your leader vs admin comparison. Let’s hope you are correct about POTUS.
Maybe we could all sign up to spread misinformation online for the CCP. And then pump that money back into the us economy. Ron Unz seems to be doing alright. Not great but alright.
Oh great…now we have ‘consensus’ on the Dems trash stimulus bill packed with infinite gibs charged to the long suffering Deplorable Taxpayer Visa card.
Every comment Trump makes, the nature of every proposal he offers--from border closure and passenger screening/quarantines to repatriated and emergency production of vital medical supplies and equipment--must make the point that this crisis is the result of globalism.
This crisis is a stinging rebuke of globalism and the open borders world the Democrats incessantly push ... and of the abject incompetence of the establishment--the swamp--in being ready to handle an outbreak which their own policies made inevitable.
Every breath, every tweet from Trump should tie this to globalism and the Democrats and point out that this is just a foretaste and worse--much worse--is inevitable if the globalist/Democrats continue their war on America's borders and ergo its people.
And every policy proposal from Trump, should be aimed at both the immediate crisis--e.g. production of medical supplies, competitive vaccine development and speedy trials, optimized medical rules, etc. etc.--and re-making the USA into a nation with the borders and capability to defeat a more epidemic that is coming down the road. Hence, every proposal must include finishing the wall, mandatory E-verify, and an immigration moratorium--"jobs for Americans".
MAGAReplies: @anon
All good thoughts, except the desire to cheapen the price of labor by flooding the nation with workers, NAFTA, WTO, sending factories abroad are the work of Republicans. I am not aware of any Democrat who desired to see the wages of labor go down to increase profits.
You mean other than Bill Clinton, the absolute master of deindustrializing America?
Scenes from the coronapocalypse:
The checkout aisle at a major discount store is completely clogged with panic buyers. There’s barely enough room for people – such as the pink-shirted physical specimen standing behind me in line – to squeeze past, let alone huge shopping carts. And no one working at the store seems to notice (or care) that the ironically-named book display is creating a fire hazard.
So I take the book’s advice and move the f**king thing out of the way. Nobody stops me. Nobody thanks me. Nobody even seems to recognize that I have done anything at all.
A TP Marshall plan is required. I need TP!
Mexico and China have offered the GOP two gifts. The closed border, the lack of any offer or aid or compassion from Mexico and the duplicitous contempt from China in accusing us of creating a disease their eating bats caused can be spun into political gold of USA vs the bad guys.
I hope they don’t pull another Bush and squander it.
Since corona has curbed carbon emissions, maybe it can also help curb obesity.
My anecdote from yesterday: I went to teach a corporate class in a business building (24 floors) here in Kaohsiung, the large port city here in southern Taiwan. In the lobby of the building, they have set up a temperature screening machine. Everyone who enters the building must walk through a rather wide entrance and the security guard has the readout at his desk. Anyone not wearing a mask is denied entry. I do not feel inconvenienced or violated by this procedure; on the contrary, I realize that these small actions are what have allowed Taiwan to combat the spread of this monster.
On Thursday, January 23 I flew from Okinawa to Kaohsiung, Taiwan, returning from a short vacation. At that time, Taiwan had ONE confirmed case of COVID-19, then referred to as the Wuhan Coronavirus. Every passenger on the plane was wearing a mask. Today is Saturday, March 14 over here, and Taiwan has 50 confirmed cases. Taiwan is a success story in fighting the spread. I am appalled by the reaction of western "leaders". They are not leaders. Merkel told the German people that there would probably be infection rates of 70% of the population. This is irresponsible and idiotic. She should be imploring them to take actions to halt or slow the spread.Replies: @Steve Sailer
American banks don’t like it if you walk in wearing a mask. Liquor stores, too.
And sex will be fine. I understand vampires enjoy it and they live for centuries. :)Replies: @Reg Cæsar
This is one big reason why I suspect that Trump isn't on the ball and hasn't been for a month or so. Specifically, masks, tests (for coronavirus), hand sanitizer.
Tests are complicated, hand sanitizer is absurdly simple, masks are somewhere in the middle. Maybe it's unrealistic to think that we could have a sufficient and smooth supply chain running for these things right now. But, we ought to know where the bottlenecks are at the moment, what the workarounds are that we are attempting, and have that information conveyed to us.
Because that is visibly not being done by the Trump Administration, I'm skeptical that other more important or more useful countermeasures aren't being taken as well.Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
“Maybe it’s unrealistic to think that we could have a sufficient and smooth supply chain running for these things right now. But, we ought to know where the bottlenecks are at the moment, what the workarounds are that we are attempting, and have that information conveyed to us.”
The kung flu will have run its course weeks or months before all those problems are solved, so you essentially wrote a self-erasing comment. Barn door, horse, and all that. You just want an excuse, any excuse, to spew vitriol at our President.
But whether it does or doesn't, the idea that we can see these things being set in motion is a crucial component in the perception and the reality that the public authorities are handling the situation as well as it can be done.
Former FL gubernatorial candidate has performance issues at meth-fueled, gay, no-tell hotel orgy, needs assistance from police, EMTs:
Former FL Governor Candidate Andrew Gillum Involved In Meth Overdose Incident
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/andrew-gillum-involved-meth-overdose-incident-miami-beach-hotelReplies: @anon
Some people I know claimed in 2018 that Andrew Gilllum was an up and comer, a new breed, just like Obama. I was skeptical but now I see my error. This incident should enhance his standing with some parts of society.
Gee. COVID-19. Hmm.
Yup.
The worst punishment that exists in the world is solitary confinement. So much so that it is regarded as torture by the UN.
"I like the mega masks plan + educated reality (not PROJECT FEAR) + herd immunity plan."
This is the only reasonable answer, history will show. Airplanes are currently supervectors of disease (one person can infect a huge number of others on a long flight with dry air) but if you humidify the cabin and everyone wears masks, a flight will be fine.Replies: @Steve Sailer
Except the plane’s aluminum fuselage rusts and eventually fails. That’s a big reason for the 787’s carbon fiber interior — they can humidify it more.
I remember that one, guy was off his meds. Not likely to take much notice of the sign or any kind of social peer pressure.
Again I ask, better than nothing?
A RealID is pretty stupid in the first place because we've survived without it since 9/11 and knowing a person's physical address at one moment in time, with no enforceable requirement that people report changes of address, is a pretty useless piece of information. And it would be trivial for any terrorist worth his terroristic salt to fake his physical address.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @epebble
I suggest that Trump extend the October deadline for requiring a RealID driver’s license to fly. We don’t want crowds of sick people in DMV offices if we can avoid it.
Yes.
"The first principle is not to fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." - R.P. FeynmanReplies: @Altai
Except the hard sciences have experimentation as a way to stop that and lead to consensus forming.
Whereas economics and soft sciences have a hard time coming up with validating experiments and tend to follow guruism and schools of thought that are entirely suffused with the prejudices of their originators.
A RealID is pretty stupid in the first place because we've survived without it since 9/11 and knowing a person's physical address at one moment in time, with no enforceable requirement that people report changes of address, is a pretty useless piece of information. And it would be trivial for any terrorist worth his terroristic salt to fake his physical address.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @epebble
Airline traffic has collapsed; there is no worry of crowds at DMV for RealID.
However, I agree RealID is stupid. If the Federal government really wants foolproof security, they should make passport cards free or affordable instead of piling on State DMVs. It is lot easier to track and trace passport cards with RFID instead of 50+ disparate RealIDs from DMVs.
https://preview.redd.it/9ytmuqp5abm41.jpg?width=576&auto=webp&s=8f4642d0b70b17066d0d761dd1d2b333fb36ecb9Replies: @Altai, @AnotherDad, @Neoconned
Immigration & DIE-Versity uber alles for these ppl….apparently to the grave….
Excellent.
(Make America Healthy Again!)
You heard it here first.
My condolences.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6rdXSon3688Replies: @James Speaks, @Coemgen
Tomorrow is Pi Day.
We've come full circle, but that's tangential... Meanwhile, enjoy this:
https://a.ltrbxd.com/resized/film-poster/3/8/9/9/0/38990-saturday-the-14th-0-230-0-345-crop.jpg?k=5b7339ae28
Is there any data on negative ion generators having any effect on aerosol-born viruses? I recall in the 1990s someone bringing a NIG into his office and the metal walls quickly became coated with a layer of dirt near the NIG.
As I've always maintained, Obama is an administrator, he's not a leader. Never has been, never will be. An administrator's mindset is quite different from a leader. Those reading can recall when they worked for a leader, rather than an administrator. It's a completely different, and FAR more dynamic experience, one reason being leader's tend to dispense with protocol to get things done, while administrators LEAN INTO protocol to make it APPEAR things are being done. Whenever they attempt to dispense with protocol, they do it hesitantly, and usually ineptly, which inspires them to run back to the safety of protocol. Admins are admins because they just don't have "what it takes."
Oddly, this virus is going to cement Trump's second term as a given. Throughout this election nonsense, his media team will dredge up all of Obama's poor choices, and Biden's activated stupidity.
When an existential aspect to an election is up front and center, rhetoric won't win the day. Protocol is a pussy's errand. Say whatever you want about Obama, like him or not, everyone who is honest with themselves will admit he was nothing if not a glow-in-the-dark administrative, community organizing pussy. And Biden was always his apple-polishing weasel, with no authenticity worth considering.
Trump's got this.Replies: @Ron Mexico, @J.Ross
It’s not credible coming from me but I do wish the most unhinged and strident of the cynical political operators trying to make hay out of this would shut up, not because Trump is right or because I am, and not just because they absolutely do not have better ideas, but because it’s an emergency, period. If Trump is screwing up, their puerile tweet will do nothing to avert it, and there’ll be plenty of reckoning later. Right now there should be no energy or time for point-scoring.
However, I agree RealID is stupid. If the Federal government really wants foolproof security, they should make passport cards free or affordable instead of piling on State DMVs. It is lot easier to track and trace passport cards with RFID instead of 50+ disparate RealIDs from DMVs.Replies: @Anonymous
The purpose of RealID is NOT “foolproof security.” On the contrary, the Deep State needs a critical level of everyday INsecurity to justify its metastasizing into traditionally free areas of life.
The purpose of RealID is to remind inmates that they live on license, subject to the whims of the State at every moment. No RealID? NO medical treatment, NO bank accounts, NO gas at the pump, NO drugs at the pharmacy, NO access to roads and bridges.
The Deep State giveth, the Deep State taketh away.
I see what you mean. Also, since a person can carry this virus for days or longer without knowing it, just the precaution of wearing masks as you describe might prevent the spread — if people are contagious before having symptoms. I’m a little slow, so it took me a while to realize the possible benefit of everyone in public just wearing a mask. Maybe that is the way to go. Thanks.
Do we know if coronavirus is contagious before symptoms occur?
People feeling sick should be home, not in public, masked or not
South Korea can easily deliver 1,000,000 test kits within one week.
Taiwan can easily deliver 1,000,000 face masks within one week.
President Trump can easily deliver us of the ensconced and treasonous anti-Trump “leadership” at CDC, within one week.
Because there is no April 31st. They have to do it the American way.
We’ve come full circle, but that’s tangential… Meanwhile, enjoy this:
Yes, it can be infectious before symptoms. There are also asymptomatic carriers.
People feeling sick should be home, not in public, masked or not
You know, that seemed a bridge too far to me to. But…
It’s real.
Idea 2: Don't go IN a pharmacy to get your drugs. Call the pharmacy and order them and wait for the pharmacy to beep your phone, then go to the drive-up window to pick them up.
Idea 3: use a grocery store that will take orders by computer, then drive up to the grocery and have the bag boy deliver them next to your car and retreat back to the store. only then do you open your car door, get out, and put the groceries in your trunk.Replies: @darkecologist
i read in some thread (maybe the Seattle surgeon lady’s) that patients waiting in cars was illegal, but they wanted that regulation relaxed.
And who’s going to make these masks @Steve? Factories needs to run, workers need to assemble and work in close proximity to each other.
On another note, I bet all those open office advocates are kicking themselves now. Cubicles were much better for arresting this kind of virus spread.
“I am not aware of any Democrat who desired to see the wages of labor go down to increase profits.”
You mean other than Bill Clinton, the absolute master of deindustrializing America?
No, not at all. We don’t know the time frame for the run of this disease. Optimistically, it will be substantially over by the time fall or winter rolls around. But maybe not. Maybe, an ample supply of masks, tests, and hand sanitizer will be an important resource in preventing the spread of the disease in a reasonably short and useful time frame.
But whether it does or doesn’t, the idea that we can see these things being set in motion is a crucial component in the perception and the reality that the public authorities are handling the situation as well as it can be done.
MAHA!
(Make America Healthy Again!)
You heard it here first.
Ooooh he look smart
My impression was that the machines are automated to the extent that they don't employ so many people.I find the N95s kind of suffocating. The normal masks have another problem if you wear eyeglasses: Little jets of humid CO2 fog up your glasses. In really cold winters while riding my bicycle (Asians use masks to keep their faces warm also) I have resorted to adding double-sided tape to the top edge. The bendy strips don't completely seal.
Totobobo N95s have a visible seal, replaceable filters, and can be shaped to your face with a hot hair dryer. But I can't see Americans wearing them, as they look more like gas masks. And China is the only country with significant injection molding capacity ... but maybe the U.S. should aim at returning some of that to the U.S.
http://totobobo.com/
MReplies: @Autochthon
From their highlighted testimonials:
Chinese, like honeybadgers, just don’t care about being politically correct and avoiding truth, not half as much as the people of Clown World.
I was at the grocery store this morning. Toilet paper shelves were empty, but in the next aisle over plenty of soap. I bought some ice cream.Replies: @Autochthon
Fewer ice cream and less Oreos (and rolls of toilet paper!) are the order of the day. Do keep up.
“And now the two forces, Industry and Finance, are in a struggle to see whether Finance is again to become the master, or creative Industry.”
Is there any doubt as to which became the master? Is there any doubt as to the catastrophic impact this has had on the US’s ability to mobilize industry for any emergency?
Why was toilet paper the thing that everybody decided to lose their minds over? I normally buy it in huge cubes because it’s cheap, it never goes bad, and you’ll always need it. When I saw pictures of empty shelves from the West coast weeks ago I thought it was a joke (there are joke pictures of people in ghetto MOPP getup wheeling 2,048 rolls out of some store). In Canada there was actually a violent fight over it, but recall the normal Canadian grocery situation (“luxury soup”). I saw a few stores over the past few days, in a state with less than twenty Covid-19 cases: shelves totally empty and the stores have finally today put up restrictions.
People are crazy.
I, like you and most other bright folks, buy giant cubes of toilet paper from places like Costco because of the dramatic savings. In any event, if the poop truly hits the fan, toilet paper is one of the least important things to have stockpiled, because it is not nearly as indispensable as, say, food and fuel. At a pinch (har-har) one can do without it, via means hikers and campers know well.Replies: @J.Ross
- who spent the evening with realDonaldTrumpat Mar-a-Lago last Saturday - has tested POSITIVE for coronavirus
This is it
This man is TOTALLY INFIT for ffice
We HAVRE to get him out NOWReplies: @MEH 0910
If we don't have any mask-building factories left in America any more, find a shuttered facility somewhere and start one up. Wal-Mart, Amazon, and the armed forces have plenty of people with a lot of expertise about how to handle a distrupted supply chain. Deploy them already.Replies: @Hemid, @Houston 1992, @Old and Grumpy, @Lugash
When the factories are shutdown they aren’t mothballed, the equipment is stripped out and usually sent overseas.
Well, then spin a new plant up and make or buy the necessary capital equipment, or partner with the American private sphere and repurpose what they’ve got.
It’s not about competing with somebody else in the private sector. It’s about building sufficient quantity and quality products for an emergency in the public sphere or organized by the public sphere, where cost minimization is not the primary objective.
It’s going to take something much more persuasive than your comment to convince me that the American talent base and infrastructure is somehow insufficient for that.
It’s not about competing with somebody else in the private sector. It’s about building sufficient quantity and quality products for an emergency in the public sphere or organized by the public sphere, where cost minimization is not the primary objective.
It’s going to take something much more persuasive than your comment to convince me that the American talent base and infrastructure is somehow insufficient for that.
Search me. I remember during the recent news conference at the White House a journalist asked the assembled speakers about the mad tuns on supplies. One fellow – I believe he was the CEO of either Lab Corp. or Quest Diagnostics – half-jokingly suggested that perhaps it would be helpful if Dr. Fauci took a moment to officially announce that toilet paper does not an effectively prevent infection with the virus.
People are crazy.
I, like you and most other bright folks, buy giant cubes of toilet paper from places like Costco because of the dramatic savings. In any event, if the poop truly hits the fan, toilet paper is one of the least important things to have stockpiled, because it is not nearly as indispensable as, say, food and fuel. At a pinch (har-har) one can do without it, via means hikers and campers know well.
People are crazy.
I, like you and most other bright folks, buy giant cubes of toilet paper from places like Costco because of the dramatic savings. In any event, if the poop truly hits the fan, toilet paper is one of the least important things to have stockpiled, because it is not nearly as indispensable as, say, food and fuel. At a pinch (har-har) one can do without it, via means hikers and campers know well.Replies: @J.Ross
Apparently (please correct) in 1973 Johnny Carson told a joke about a possible toilet paper shortage and it caused a panic buy with a brief shortage afterward. This is some weak point of ours. The son of Ashoka smiles as he holds aloft a glass of water as if in toast.