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From the NYT:

Fusion Media Aims at Millennials, but Struggles to Find Its Identity
By RAVI SOMAIYA and BROOKS BARNES MAY 24, 2015

In 2011, when Isaac Lee, president of news for Univision, set out to persuade his company and Disney to back Fusion, a digital news service and cable channel he wanted to start, he promised nothing less than the holy grail: young viewers for the older media conglomerates.

He played a slide show in which a middle-aged white man transformed into a young brown woman. The executives present were dazzled.

… Fusion has grown quickly, with 250 employees and offices in Miami, New York, Washington, D.C., Boulder, Colo., and Oakland, Calif. …

Its web traffic late last year, according to internal figures obtained by The New York Times, dropped as low as 23,000 page views on some days.

Let’s see, 23,000 page views divided by 250 employees … let me get my calculator …

Mr. Madrigal described the organization in simple terms: “Fusion is a cable and digital network that is championing a more diverse and inclusive America.” It will do so by hiring those who are “naturally and natively interested in things that the rising generation of people in America are interested in,” he added. That will include television shows on topics like prisons …

After all, what advertiser doesn’t want a captive audience?

Fusion is also a cable television network, with some curious programming choices. For example, on Sundays it runs The Chris Gethard Show: The Public Access Years for 14 straight hours from 5 am to 7 pm.

The watch words of the Fusion TV network are “News, Pop Culture, Satire” — the goal apparently is to be a 24×7 The Daily Show with Jon Stewart for young English-speaking Hispanics.

But assuming that Fusion survives The Chris Gethard Years, is this a truly dazzling strategy?

Or is it a bunch of white executives strategizing over how to stick it to the old white men who watch Fox News by politically mobilizing the diverse masses of young brown women who, we’re assuming, are desperate for left-of-center political commentary? They are, aren’t they?

I’ve noticed that it takes a fair amount of Googling to find entertainment data, such as Nielsen ratings, for Hispanics. One reason for this is because Nielsen has a monopoly and thus traditionally does a lackadaisical job. Another reason is that Hispanic media choices are not very distinctive. They tend to like whatever everybody else likes.

This is in sharp contrast to black tastes, which are very black. Here are recent Nielsen ratings:

AFRICAN AMERICAN AUDIENCE ESTIMATES
Ranked on Households
Week Ending May 10

# PROGRAMS Net Rtg P2+(000)
1 SCANDAL ABC 14.5 2656
2 NBA PLAYOFFS ON ABC-SA2 ABC 8.5 1693
3 AMERICAN CRIME ABC 7.6 1351
4 NCIS: NEW ORLEANS CBS 6.8 1233
5 GREY’S ANATOMY ABC 6.7 1204
6 BLACK-ISH ABC 6.4 1267
7 NCIS CBS 6.2 1085
8 CHICAGO PD NBC 6.0 1128
9 CRIMINAL MINDS CBS 5.8 1129
10 PERSON OF INTEREST CBS 5.8 1034
* Ratings based on 13.65 million African American TV homes.
Source: Nielsen

Blacks love Shonda Rhimes’ Scandal (starring Kerry Washington as a Washington PR fixer) and the NBA. Blacks ratings are much more concentrated than for Hispanics because blacks like shows with blacks in them and don’t really care about shows such as Big Bang Theory and Modern Family without major black characters.

And here are Nielsen ratings for shows in English among Hispanics, which look a lot like the overall ratings.

HISPANIC ENGLISH-LANGUAGE VIEWING
Ranked on Households
Week Ending May 10

# PROGRAMS Net Rtg P2+(000)
1 DANCING WITH THE STARS ABC 3.7 760
2 BIG BANG THEORY, THE CBS 3.2 692
3 SCANDAL ABC 3.0 592
4 MODERN FAMILY ABC 2.9 690
4 NCIS CBS 2.9 565
6 DWS: THE RESULTS SHOW-5/5(S)-05/05/2015 ABC 2.8 567
6 NCIS: NEW ORLEANS CBS 2.8 528
6 VOICE NBC 2.8 568
9 BLACK-ISH ABC 2.7 585
9 GREY’S ANATOMY ABC 2.7 564
Source: Nielsen

Latinos like dancing, but in general this looks a lot like the overall ratings. Here are the ratings for everybody of all ethnicities, although for the following week (does it take Nielsen an extra week to massage their black and Hispanic ratings?)

TOP 25 PROGRAMS – BROADCAST
Ranked on Households
Week Ending May 17

# PROGRAMS Net HOUSEHOLDS PERSONS 2+
Rtg% Shr (000) # Rtg% (000)
1 NCIS CBS 9.3 16 10852 1 5.0 14939
2 DANCING WITH THE STARS ABC 8.6 14 10048 2 4.6 13479
3 NCIS: NEW ORLEANS CBS 8.5 14 9878 2 4.6 13610
4 DWS:THE RESULTS SHOW-5/12(S) ABC 6.7 11 7820 5 3.4 10159
5 BILLBOARD MUSIC AWARDS(S) ABC 6.5 11 7573 4 3.8 11181
6 VOICE NBC 6.2 10 7192 5 3.4 10051
7 BIG BANG THEORY, THE CBS 6.1 11 7082 7 3.2 9567
8 VOICE-TUE NBC 5.8 10 6698 9 3.1 9138
9 60 MINUTES CBS 5.7 11 6692 10 3.0 8989
9 GREY’S ANATOMY ABC 5.7 10 6636 13 2.8 8332
9 SCANDAL ABC 5.7 10 6591 16 2.7 8079

It doesn’t hurt the Hispanic ratings of Modern Family, a fairly sophisticated sitcom that the cast includes the highly entertaining Sofia Vergara, who is the ultimate evolution of the blonde bimba going back at least to Charo, but mostly English-speaking Hispanics seem to watch what everybody else is watching, only more so.

 
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  1. “Fake it ’til you make it” (also called “act as if”) is a common catchphrase. The purpose is to avoid getting caught in a self-fulfilling prophecy related to one’s fear of not being confident, e.g. “I can’t ask that person out because they will sense my lack of confidence.” The article How You Too Can Be an Optimist in Prevention points out, “In research at Wake Forest University, for example, scientists asked a group of 50 students to act like extroverts for 15 minutes in a group discussion, even if they didn’t feel like it. The more assertive and energetic the students acted, the happier they were.”[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_it_till_you_make_it

    Combat depression. Business is combat and ISIS is targeting the executives. It was Picasso who told us that ‘Everything you can imagine is real’, so avoid getting caught.

    Man up and hammer down.

    Edinburgh Fringe First Winner, Bryony Kimmings’ new work about clinical depression and men… from two people who know ALL about it!

    Expect homemade music, stupid dancing, onstage arguments, real-life stories, tears and truths. A wickedly heart-warming and funny celebration of the wonders and pitfalls of the human brain that seeks to unpick what it takes to be a “real man”.
    http://www.comedyfestival.com.au/2015/season/shows/fake-it-til-you-make-it-bryony-kimmings-tim-grayburn

  2. You can pretty much picture Zuckerberg reading that and sneering “I drink your milkshake”

  3. Yeah, Isaac Lee, one of the vibrant Mexicans who are going to revitalize the USA:

    Isaac Lee Possin, 44, is an award winning journalist, Chief Executive Officer of Fusion and President of News and Digital[1] for Univision,[2] strategically and editorially overseeing programming and production across the Univision Networks, Univision Local Media and Univision Interactive Media. […..] Lee was born in Bogotá, Colombia – from Jewish immigrants – and has been working as a journalist and magazine editor Since the late 1990s. He currently lives in Miami, Florida.

    Except that he’s Jewish guy from Colombia….

  4. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Fusion is a cable and digital network that is championing a more diverse and inclusive America.”

    If this were followed by the letter, it wouldn’t be bad at all, and certainly better than the media we have now.

    Imagine if the media represented America proportionally.

    Whites would be 65% of media voices, blacks 13%, Hispanics 15%, Asians 5%, Jews 2%, homosexuals 2%, etc.

    But I don’t think that is the kind of ‘inclusion’ and ‘diversity’ that Isaac Lee, the Colombian Jew, has in mind.

    It means Jews using people of color against whites.

  5. He played a slide show in which a middle-aged white man transformed into a young brown woman. The executives present were dazzled.

    I think we’ve solved the mystery of how to profit from racism.

  6. And here’s one of Fusion’s key hosts/personalities/anchors/whatever:

    Alicia Jacobsen Menendez (born July 2, 1983)[1] is an American television commentator, host, and writer.[2] She is the host of “Come Here and Say That” [3] on Fusion,[4] the cable network launched by ABC News and Univision in October 2013. Prior to that she was a Host and Producer at HuffPost Live, the streaming video network of The Huffington Post.[5]

    Menendez grew up in Union City, New Jersey,[6] the daughter of United States Senator Robert Menendez[7] and Jane Jacobsen.[1] Her father is of Cuban ancestry and her mother is of German, Norwegian, and Irish ancestry.[1] She graduated from Harvard College in 2005.

    Yeesh.White Cuban father plus German-Norwegian-Irish mother.Don’t worry, though.Her mother made sure that her daughter is 100% pure Hispanic:

    Alicia Menendez: My Gringa Mother

    It’s easiest to imagine my non-Hispanic white mother’s role in my Latina identity as the “absence of.” If I’d had a Latina mother, the logic goes, I would speak fluent Spanish. I would have a proper reverse hyphenated surname, not the middle name “Jacobsen” that falls like an awkward feminist disclaimer between the very Latin “Alicia” and “Menendez.” But in reality, much of my Hispanic identity is the product of my Irish-German-Norwegian, third generation New Jersey mother, Jane, who swears that she was Dominican in her previous life.

    Jane’s first contribution to my identity was her proactive choice to raise us in the same place she and my father grew up. Take exit 17 off the Turnpike, the last exit before the Lincoln Tunnel, make a right by the Toys ‘R’ Us onto Kennedy Boulevard and you’ll find yourself in the most densely populated city in America, Union City, New Jersey. The first wave of Hispanics who came to the “embroidery capital of the world” were Cuban exiles, among them, my paternal grandparents, aunt and uncle. By the time my brother and I were in middle school, many of the Cubans had moved up and out, and were replaced with new waves of Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians and Ecuadorians.

    If you grow up in Union City, you are likely, by default, to be effectively Hispanic. You learn to salsa by middle school. On at least one birthday, you’ll be honored with an actual “Barby” (the kind they sell at the 99 cents store, not to be confused with Mattel’s “Barbie”) popping out of your cake. And you’ll find it odd later in life when people say hello without cheek-to-cheek kisses.

    If I’d had another mother, even a Latina mother, who wanted to uproot us from Union City, all of that cultural nuance would have been lost.

    At home, my mother’s efforts were never forceful or overt. She simply loved Hispanic culture and she expressed that with authenticity and genuine curiosity. My mom is the one who put Isabel Allende books in my hands. She is the one who knew, long before he won a Pulitzer, that Junot Díaz was going to be a big deal. She’s the one who makes café con leche every morning.

    Yes, I bury my head in my hands every time my mother proudly declares that the only Spanish she knows is “Una cerveza, por favor.” I laugh every time an email from “Juana” pops up in my inbox, or my mom calls me from her car phone to say that she’s “bachat’ing up the Turnpike.” But the truth is that without my gringa mother, I might not be as proud to be Latina as I am today.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/06/01/alicia-menendez-my-gringa-mother/

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @syonredux

    Jane and Jeb Bush would have made the perfect, wannabe Hispanic couple.

    Not a great year for the Menendezes so far with Dad under indictment and Alicia's employer on the rocks.

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @syonredux

    But in reality, much of my Hispanic identity is the product of my Irish-German-Norwegian, third generation New Jersey mother, Jane, who swears that she was Dominican in her previous life.

    Is that how we get to trans-racialism--claim we were the preferred race in a prior life?

    , @Alan D
    @syonredux

    So Menendez is Hispanic because her mother, who is not Hispanic, was Hispanic in a previous life. This means that if your mother or father was a slave in a previous life, you are a slave. Therefore you are, in the opinion of many people, entitled to reparations.

    I predict that there will be a lot of people, probably millions, who will qualify. Please remember that I thought of this, so I am at the front of the queue. I don't believe in reparations myself, and I am Australian, not American, but I won't let these minor details bother me - just send the money to...

    Replies: @Thomas Fuller, @ScarletNumber

  7. He played a slide show in which a middle-aged white man transformed into a young brown woman. The executives present were dazzled.

    Was that supposed to represent demographic change, or the future popularity of transgenderism?

  8. And here’s another key guy at Fusion:

    David Javerbaum:

    Javerbaum was hired as a staff writer at The Daily Show with Jon Stewart in 1999. He was promoted to head writer in 2002 and became an executive producer at the end of 2006. His work for the program won 11 Emmy Awards, a Grammy Award, two Peabody Awards and Television Critics Association Awards for both Best Comedy and Best News Show. He was also one of the three principal authors of the show’s textbook parody America (The Book): A Citizen’s Guide to Democracy Inaction, which sold 2.6 million copies and won the 2005 Thurber Prize for American Humor. He became a consulting producer at the start of 2009 and spearheaded the writing of the book’s 2010 sequel, Earth (The Book): A Visitor’s Guide to the Human Race; his co-production of the audiobook earned the 2011 Grammy Award for Best Spoken-Word Album. He left the show in 2010. In 2013 he was hired by Fusion to create and executive-produce two news-parody shows, No, You Shut Up! and Good Morning Today, in conjunction with The Henson Company.

    The Jewish Javerbaum doesn’t seem very “vibrant” to me, but maybe his grandmother was born in Cuba or something.MMMM, wonder about the crew at his “news-parody” show, “Good Morning Today”:

    Rilcardo Gomez (motion captured by Tony Sabin Prince, voiced by Allan Trautman) – He is the anchorman on Good Morning Today.

    Cathy Smith (motion captured by John Munro Cameron, voiced by Donna Kimball) – She is the anchorwoman on Good Morning Today.

    Flo Qwan (motion captured by John Munro Cameron, voiced by Kristin Charney) – She is the senior reporter on Good Morning Today.

    Krish Goldstein (motion captured by Tony Sabin Prince, voiced by Allan Trautman) – He is the roving junior reporter on Good Morning Today. He is the host of the segment “Can You Geographically Situate Krish Goldstein” where Cathy and Flo had to guess where Krish is situated.

    Yeah, Allan Trautman, Donna Kimball, John Munro Cameron, Tony Sabin Prince: not getting much of a, shall we say, Mestizo-Amerind flavor here…..

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @syonredux

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work? Presumably it's innate and there's a genetic reason for it. What would be the evolutionary reasons for this?

    Replies: @EvolutionistX, @Cagey Beast, @J.Ross, @SFG, @dsgntd_plyr

  9. @syonredux
    And here's another key guy at Fusion:

    David Javerbaum:

    Javerbaum was hired as a staff writer at The Daily Show with Jon Stewart in 1999. He was promoted to head writer in 2002 and became an executive producer at the end of 2006. His work for the program won 11 Emmy Awards, a Grammy Award, two Peabody Awards and Television Critics Association Awards for both Best Comedy and Best News Show. He was also one of the three principal authors of the show's textbook parody America (The Book): A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction, which sold 2.6 million copies and won the 2005 Thurber Prize for American Humor. He became a consulting producer at the start of 2009 and spearheaded the writing of the book's 2010 sequel, Earth (The Book): A Visitor's Guide to the Human Race; his co-production of the audiobook earned the 2011 Grammy Award for Best Spoken-Word Album. He left the show in 2010. In 2013 he was hired by Fusion to create and executive-produce two news-parody shows, No, You Shut Up! and Good Morning Today, in conjunction with The Henson Company.
     
    The Jewish Javerbaum doesn't seem very "vibrant" to me, but maybe his grandmother was born in Cuba or something.MMMM, wonder about the crew at his "news-parody" show, "Good Morning Today":

    Rilcardo Gomez (motion captured by Tony Sabin Prince, voiced by Allan Trautman) - He is the anchorman on Good Morning Today.

    Cathy Smith (motion captured by John Munro Cameron, voiced by Donna Kimball) - She is the anchorwoman on Good Morning Today.

    Flo Qwan (motion captured by John Munro Cameron, voiced by Kristin Charney) - She is the senior reporter on Good Morning Today.

    Krish Goldstein (motion captured by Tony Sabin Prince, voiced by Allan Trautman) - He is the roving junior reporter on Good Morning Today. He is the host of the segment "Can You Geographically Situate Krish Goldstein" where Cathy and Flo had to guess where Krish is situated.
     
    Yeah, Allan Trautman, Donna Kimball, John Munro Cameron, Tony Sabin Prince: not getting much of a, shall we say, Mestizo-Amerind flavor here.....

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work? Presumably it’s innate and there’s a genetic reason for it. What would be the evolutionary reasons for this?

    • Replies: @EvolutionistX
    @Anonymous

    I assume it's a combination internal Jewish (Ashkenazi) cultural norms selecting highly literate people to be rabbis, scholars, etc. (rabbis often have a ton of kids,) and external cultural norms (anti-Semitism) having really negative effects on the dumber Jews. There may also be some other (essentially random as I understand it) cultural stuff that happened in Central/ Eastern Europe whereby Jews ended up in the early industrializing niche and so especially clever ones had another chance to get ahead.

    Replies: @Lurker

    , @Cagey Beast
    @Anonymous

    They used to be tax farmers and vodka sellers in the Old World and working in mass media is the modern fusion of those two ancient trades.

    , @J.Ross
    @Anonymous

    It is the modern form of their historical power mechanism, the priests and prophets, which is also why Entertainment People seem so doggedly political. It isn't that they do entertainment for a living, have a Damascus Road and subsequently start Saving the Earth, nor is it (often enough to be a genetal explanation) that they have no entertainment chops and snuck in to Spread the Word.
    For the Jew, mass media and telling everybody what to do with their lives are the same thing. Reading Bernays' Propaganda as I hope you have or will, one is struck by the sincerity of the writer's faith in the nobility and necessity of what would later be called Sunstein's Nudge. People really will lead objectively better lives and make better decisions thanks to my selfless intrusion into their breakfast. Which allows me to bridge to real nastiness: there exist real Jewish academics, who can be surprisingly good at what they do, but clearly also a great many have that same Prophet mindset as the Entertainment People.

    , @SFG
    @Anonymous

    Verbal IQ, and once you get a hold on the media (these were rising industries in the early twentieth century that were open to outsiders without fancy degrees, etc.), it tends to perpetrate itself through nepotism.

    In a less crucial example, try opening a diner in Long Island if you're not Greek.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @dsgntd_plyr
    @Anonymous


    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work?
     
    ""Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past." Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party) is the political ideology of the totalitarian government of Oceania in George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four." - Wiki for Ingsoc
  10. I’ve been following Fusion’s Twitter account from the beginning, for the entertainment value: https://mobile.twitter.com/thisisfusion

  11. @syonredux
    And here's one of Fusion's key hosts/personalities/anchors/whatever:

    Alicia Jacobsen Menendez (born July 2, 1983)[1] is an American television commentator, host, and writer.[2] She is the host of "Come Here and Say That" [3] on Fusion,[4] the cable network launched by ABC News and Univision in October 2013. Prior to that she was a Host and Producer at HuffPost Live, the streaming video network of The Huffington Post.[5]

    Menendez grew up in Union City, New Jersey,[6] the daughter of United States Senator Robert Menendez[7] and Jane Jacobsen.[1] Her father is of Cuban ancestry and her mother is of German, Norwegian, and Irish ancestry.[1] She graduated from Harvard College in 2005.
     

    Yeesh.White Cuban father plus German-Norwegian-Irish mother.Don't worry, though.Her mother made sure that her daughter is 100% pure Hispanic:

    Alicia Menendez: My Gringa Mother


    It’s easiest to imagine my non-Hispanic white mother’s role in my Latina identity as the “absence of.” If I’d had a Latina mother, the logic goes, I would speak fluent Spanish. I would have a proper reverse hyphenated surname, not the middle name “Jacobsen” that falls like an awkward feminist disclaimer between the very Latin “Alicia” and “Menendez.” But in reality, much of my Hispanic identity is the product of my Irish-German-Norwegian, third generation New Jersey mother, Jane, who swears that she was Dominican in her previous life.

    Jane’s first contribution to my identity was her proactive choice to raise us in the same place she and my father grew up. Take exit 17 off the Turnpike, the last exit before the Lincoln Tunnel, make a right by the Toys ‘R’ Us onto Kennedy Boulevard and you’ll find yourself in the most densely populated city in America, Union City, New Jersey. The first wave of Hispanics who came to the “embroidery capital of the world” were Cuban exiles, among them, my paternal grandparents, aunt and uncle. By the time my brother and I were in middle school, many of the Cubans had moved up and out, and were replaced with new waves of Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians and Ecuadorians.


    If you grow up in Union City, you are likely, by default, to be effectively Hispanic. You learn to salsa by middle school. On at least one birthday, you’ll be honored with an actual “Barby” (the kind they sell at the 99 cents store, not to be confused with Mattel’s “Barbie”) popping out of your cake. And you’ll find it odd later in life when people say hello without cheek-to-cheek kisses.

    If I’d had another mother, even a Latina mother, who wanted to uproot us from Union City, all of that cultural nuance would have been lost.

    At home, my mother’s efforts were never forceful or overt. She simply loved Hispanic culture and she expressed that with authenticity and genuine curiosity. My mom is the one who put Isabel Allende books in my hands. She is the one who knew, long before he won a Pulitzer, that Junot Díaz was going to be a big deal. She’s the one who makes café con leche every morning.

    Yes, I bury my head in my hands every time my mother proudly declares that the only Spanish she knows is “Una cerveza, por favor.” I laugh every time an email from “Juana” pops up in my inbox, or my mom calls me from her car phone to say that she’s “bachat’ing up the Turnpike.” But the truth is that without my gringa mother, I might not be as proud to be Latina as I am today.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/06/01/alicia-menendez-my-gringa-mother/
     

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Harry Baldwin, @Alan D

    Jane and Jeb Bush would have made the perfect, wannabe Hispanic couple.

    Not a great year for the Menendezes so far with Dad under indictment and Alicia’s employer on the rocks.

  12. @That will include television shows on topics like prisons

    Captain Oveur: Joey, have you ever been in a… in a Turkish prison?

  13. @syonredux
    And here's one of Fusion's key hosts/personalities/anchors/whatever:

    Alicia Jacobsen Menendez (born July 2, 1983)[1] is an American television commentator, host, and writer.[2] She is the host of "Come Here and Say That" [3] on Fusion,[4] the cable network launched by ABC News and Univision in October 2013. Prior to that she was a Host and Producer at HuffPost Live, the streaming video network of The Huffington Post.[5]

    Menendez grew up in Union City, New Jersey,[6] the daughter of United States Senator Robert Menendez[7] and Jane Jacobsen.[1] Her father is of Cuban ancestry and her mother is of German, Norwegian, and Irish ancestry.[1] She graduated from Harvard College in 2005.
     

    Yeesh.White Cuban father plus German-Norwegian-Irish mother.Don't worry, though.Her mother made sure that her daughter is 100% pure Hispanic:

    Alicia Menendez: My Gringa Mother


    It’s easiest to imagine my non-Hispanic white mother’s role in my Latina identity as the “absence of.” If I’d had a Latina mother, the logic goes, I would speak fluent Spanish. I would have a proper reverse hyphenated surname, not the middle name “Jacobsen” that falls like an awkward feminist disclaimer between the very Latin “Alicia” and “Menendez.” But in reality, much of my Hispanic identity is the product of my Irish-German-Norwegian, third generation New Jersey mother, Jane, who swears that she was Dominican in her previous life.

    Jane’s first contribution to my identity was her proactive choice to raise us in the same place she and my father grew up. Take exit 17 off the Turnpike, the last exit before the Lincoln Tunnel, make a right by the Toys ‘R’ Us onto Kennedy Boulevard and you’ll find yourself in the most densely populated city in America, Union City, New Jersey. The first wave of Hispanics who came to the “embroidery capital of the world” were Cuban exiles, among them, my paternal grandparents, aunt and uncle. By the time my brother and I were in middle school, many of the Cubans had moved up and out, and were replaced with new waves of Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians and Ecuadorians.


    If you grow up in Union City, you are likely, by default, to be effectively Hispanic. You learn to salsa by middle school. On at least one birthday, you’ll be honored with an actual “Barby” (the kind they sell at the 99 cents store, not to be confused with Mattel’s “Barbie”) popping out of your cake. And you’ll find it odd later in life when people say hello without cheek-to-cheek kisses.

    If I’d had another mother, even a Latina mother, who wanted to uproot us from Union City, all of that cultural nuance would have been lost.

    At home, my mother’s efforts were never forceful or overt. She simply loved Hispanic culture and she expressed that with authenticity and genuine curiosity. My mom is the one who put Isabel Allende books in my hands. She is the one who knew, long before he won a Pulitzer, that Junot Díaz was going to be a big deal. She’s the one who makes café con leche every morning.

    Yes, I bury my head in my hands every time my mother proudly declares that the only Spanish she knows is “Una cerveza, por favor.” I laugh every time an email from “Juana” pops up in my inbox, or my mom calls me from her car phone to say that she’s “bachat’ing up the Turnpike.” But the truth is that without my gringa mother, I might not be as proud to be Latina as I am today.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/06/01/alicia-menendez-my-gringa-mother/
     

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Harry Baldwin, @Alan D

    But in reality, much of my Hispanic identity is the product of my Irish-German-Norwegian, third generation New Jersey mother, Jane, who swears that she was Dominican in her previous life.

    Is that how we get to trans-racialism–claim we were the preferred race in a prior life?

  14. The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should’ve created a buffer state of “cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert” in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @Muck Fexico

    That would be awesome.

    _--------------------
    There's no money in Latinos because Latinos have no money. Pew estimates Whites median net assets at 130k, Black at 5k, Latino 6k.

    You've got bottom feeders there, with idiot Execs believing diversity hype.

    If you are sick, do you want Dr. Conrad Murray, or a top notch Dr that s White? Lexus won't be selling too many cars to twenty something Latinos. Their buyers are fifty something Whites.

    , @meh
    @Muck Fexico


    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should’ve created a buffer state of “cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert” in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.
     
    The ghost of William Walker would like to have a word with you, sir!

    Replies: @Boomstick

    , @Anonym
    @Muck Fexico

    The more defensible approach would have been to push them down past a good choke point, like Panama.

    Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Muck Fexico

    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    Or allow our Border Patrol to actively defend it. I've read a few books and newspaper articles about the Border Patrol in the pre-World War II decades. Smugglers crossed the border with illegal aliens and, during Prohibition, contraband booze. In those days the BP had no compunctions about opening fire on them. A veteran of that period, Charley Askins, wrote in his autobiography, Unrepentant Sinner:


    In the El Paso subdistrict alone during a ten-year period, there was an average of a gunfight every 17 days. There was never a good count on the number of smugglers who got shuffled off this mortal coil but in round numbers it was in the neighborhood of 500. It was hard to count the dead ones for ofttimes they managed to get into the houses of amigos on this side and there died; or they crippled back across the Rio Grande and cashed in their chips in the Land of Manana. But anyway 500 was a pretty good tally. That was an average of one dead smuggler every week for the whole period.
     
    An article on the Border Patrol in the The San Antonio Light (July 25, 1937) includes the passage, "Two patrolmen, armed with automatic rifles, pistols and night flares, sometimes roundup a dozen aliens on one sally. The officers do not guarantee, however, that the aliens intercepted will all be alive."

    The article praises well-known gunfighter and Border Patrol officer Tom Threepersons, who once got into a fight at the Rio Grande in which he took five prisoners and killed eleven smugglers. It ends with an acknowledgment of the draw of America to Third Worlders, even in 1937:

    Good old southwestern friendship; genial, kindly old Uncle Sam. His relief rolls are packed with smuggled aliens. It's the toughest obstacle the Border Patrol has to face—the inherent hospitality of America.
     

    Replies: @Jack Hanson

    , @Perspective
    @Muck Fexico

    Yes, if a successful, prosperous, and relatively peaceful Hispanic (mostly European) state has developed in present day northern Mexico, it could have provided an effective barrier to illegal immigrants. How would the US be different today?

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    , @iSteveFan
    @Muck Fexico


    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.
     
    We used to maintain a string of Army forts along the border. It wouldn't take much, and it would be a fantastic training opportunity to reemploy such a policy.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  15. This is not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but it was so unintentionally comical I had to share it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/21/what-i-learned-teaching-at-a-historically-black-college/

    After all the suitably uplifting talk about black colleges, the author’s last paragraph ends with…

    After six years, I’m leaving Howard for position at a PWI in Philadelphia.

    PWI, as in “predominantly white institution.” Does the author even realize that her piece is a parody?

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Twinkie

    Couldn't stay away, could you?

    Replies: @Twinkie

  16. @Muck Fexico
    The USA's southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should've created a buffer state of "cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert" in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @meh, @Anonym, @Harry Baldwin, @Perspective, @iSteveFan

    That would be awesome.

    _——————–
    There’s no money in Latinos because Latinos have no money. Pew estimates Whites median net assets at 130k, Black at 5k, Latino 6k.

    You’ve got bottom feeders there, with idiot Execs believing diversity hype.

    If you are sick, do you want Dr. Conrad Murray, or a top notch Dr that s White? Lexus won’t be selling too many cars to twenty something Latinos. Their buyers are fifty something Whites.

  17. @syonredux
    And here's one of Fusion's key hosts/personalities/anchors/whatever:

    Alicia Jacobsen Menendez (born July 2, 1983)[1] is an American television commentator, host, and writer.[2] She is the host of "Come Here and Say That" [3] on Fusion,[4] the cable network launched by ABC News and Univision in October 2013. Prior to that she was a Host and Producer at HuffPost Live, the streaming video network of The Huffington Post.[5]

    Menendez grew up in Union City, New Jersey,[6] the daughter of United States Senator Robert Menendez[7] and Jane Jacobsen.[1] Her father is of Cuban ancestry and her mother is of German, Norwegian, and Irish ancestry.[1] She graduated from Harvard College in 2005.
     

    Yeesh.White Cuban father plus German-Norwegian-Irish mother.Don't worry, though.Her mother made sure that her daughter is 100% pure Hispanic:

    Alicia Menendez: My Gringa Mother


    It’s easiest to imagine my non-Hispanic white mother’s role in my Latina identity as the “absence of.” If I’d had a Latina mother, the logic goes, I would speak fluent Spanish. I would have a proper reverse hyphenated surname, not the middle name “Jacobsen” that falls like an awkward feminist disclaimer between the very Latin “Alicia” and “Menendez.” But in reality, much of my Hispanic identity is the product of my Irish-German-Norwegian, third generation New Jersey mother, Jane, who swears that she was Dominican in her previous life.

    Jane’s first contribution to my identity was her proactive choice to raise us in the same place she and my father grew up. Take exit 17 off the Turnpike, the last exit before the Lincoln Tunnel, make a right by the Toys ‘R’ Us onto Kennedy Boulevard and you’ll find yourself in the most densely populated city in America, Union City, New Jersey. The first wave of Hispanics who came to the “embroidery capital of the world” were Cuban exiles, among them, my paternal grandparents, aunt and uncle. By the time my brother and I were in middle school, many of the Cubans had moved up and out, and were replaced with new waves of Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Colombians and Ecuadorians.


    If you grow up in Union City, you are likely, by default, to be effectively Hispanic. You learn to salsa by middle school. On at least one birthday, you’ll be honored with an actual “Barby” (the kind they sell at the 99 cents store, not to be confused with Mattel’s “Barbie”) popping out of your cake. And you’ll find it odd later in life when people say hello without cheek-to-cheek kisses.

    If I’d had another mother, even a Latina mother, who wanted to uproot us from Union City, all of that cultural nuance would have been lost.

    At home, my mother’s efforts were never forceful or overt. She simply loved Hispanic culture and she expressed that with authenticity and genuine curiosity. My mom is the one who put Isabel Allende books in my hands. She is the one who knew, long before he won a Pulitzer, that Junot Díaz was going to be a big deal. She’s the one who makes café con leche every morning.

    Yes, I bury my head in my hands every time my mother proudly declares that the only Spanish she knows is “Una cerveza, por favor.” I laugh every time an email from “Juana” pops up in my inbox, or my mom calls me from her car phone to say that she’s “bachat’ing up the Turnpike.” But the truth is that without my gringa mother, I might not be as proud to be Latina as I am today.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/06/01/alicia-menendez-my-gringa-mother/
     

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Harry Baldwin, @Alan D

    So Menendez is Hispanic because her mother, who is not Hispanic, was Hispanic in a previous life. This means that if your mother or father was a slave in a previous life, you are a slave. Therefore you are, in the opinion of many people, entitled to reparations.

    I predict that there will be a lot of people, probably millions, who will qualify. Please remember that I thought of this, so I am at the front of the queue. I don’t believe in reparations myself, and I am Australian, not American, but I won’t let these minor details bother me – just send the money to…

    • Replies: @Thomas Fuller
    @Alan D

    Forget the slavery stuff ... no doubt your great-grandfather was wrongly convicted of stealing a loaf of bread and transported to Botany Bay. Should be worth a couple of mil.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Alan D

    No, her father is Cuban.

  18. @Anonymous
    @syonredux

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work? Presumably it's innate and there's a genetic reason for it. What would be the evolutionary reasons for this?

    Replies: @EvolutionistX, @Cagey Beast, @J.Ross, @SFG, @dsgntd_plyr

    I assume it’s a combination internal Jewish (Ashkenazi) cultural norms selecting highly literate people to be rabbis, scholars, etc. (rabbis often have a ton of kids,) and external cultural norms (anti-Semitism) having really negative effects on the dumber Jews. There may also be some other (essentially random as I understand it) cultural stuff that happened in Central/ Eastern Europe whereby Jews ended up in the early industrializing niche and so especially clever ones had another chance to get ahead.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @EvolutionistX

    You're right and I'm sure there are no other reasons.

  19. @Alan D
    @syonredux

    So Menendez is Hispanic because her mother, who is not Hispanic, was Hispanic in a previous life. This means that if your mother or father was a slave in a previous life, you are a slave. Therefore you are, in the opinion of many people, entitled to reparations.

    I predict that there will be a lot of people, probably millions, who will qualify. Please remember that I thought of this, so I am at the front of the queue. I don't believe in reparations myself, and I am Australian, not American, but I won't let these minor details bother me - just send the money to...

    Replies: @Thomas Fuller, @ScarletNumber

    Forget the slavery stuff … no doubt your great-grandfather was wrongly convicted of stealing a loaf of bread and transported to Botany Bay. Should be worth a couple of mil.

  20. meh says:
    @Muck Fexico
    The USA's southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should've created a buffer state of "cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert" in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @meh, @Anonym, @Harry Baldwin, @Perspective, @iSteveFan

    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should’ve created a buffer state of “cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert” in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    The ghost of William Walker would like to have a word with you, sir!

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @meh

    Nicholas Trist is history's greatest monster. He was the doofus diplomat who let the Mexicans keep Baja California after the Mexican-American war. A border running from Big Bend in Texas straight to the Gulf of California, plus Baja, would have shortened the land border by 500 miles and opened up the mouth of the Colorado river as a port.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @SPMoore8

  21. What explains the afro-centrism? I don’t exclusively watch things with whites in them. I’ve seen Power, which was ok, Empire, which was hilariously ghetto for King Lear and had worse music than Power. I watch Scandal, though the enunciated raging monologues are starting to bore me, and I watch the stuff with whites in them, which generally have more universal appeal. I’m planning on watching The Wire. Oz was pretty scary for an 11 year old, but I slogged through it. Hell, I love period dramas, so I even watched Suleyman, from the Turks. I’ve seen Korean period soap operas. The slanted eyes don’t diminish it somehow for me, or detract from the universality of the ideas expressed.

    Why wasn’t Boss, or Brotherhood, which were very “black” relevant dramas, but with white people, more well received?

    Then again, people from marginal cultures in terms of entertainment might be more open minded in their viewing habits. How many Americans would watch subbed films?

  22. @Anonymous
    @syonredux

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work? Presumably it's innate and there's a genetic reason for it. What would be the evolutionary reasons for this?

    Replies: @EvolutionistX, @Cagey Beast, @J.Ross, @SFG, @dsgntd_plyr

    They used to be tax farmers and vodka sellers in the Old World and working in mass media is the modern fusion of those two ancient trades.

  23. @Twinkie
    This is not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but it was so unintentionally comical I had to share it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/21/what-i-learned-teaching-at-a-historically-black-college/

    After all the suitably uplifting talk about black colleges, the author's last paragraph ends with...

    After six years, I’m leaving Howard for position at a PWI in Philadelphia.
     
    PWI, as in "predominantly white institution." Does the author even realize that her piece is a parody?

    Replies: @Truth

    Couldn’t stay away, could you?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Truth

    Don't you find it comical that this black professor spends bulk of the op-ed valorizing the historically black colleges only to mention ever so slightly at the very end that she's leaving for a predominantly white university?

    To me, this perfectly captures the general mood of the black population - "Black power! Black power! Oh, wait, what? You're giving me a job in the nice white neighborhood? See y'all later. I know it looks like I'm abandoning y'all, but keep the faith, my brothers and sisters! I am just going to be fighting the white power structure from the inside."

    Replies: @Truth

  24. @Alan D
    @syonredux

    So Menendez is Hispanic because her mother, who is not Hispanic, was Hispanic in a previous life. This means that if your mother or father was a slave in a previous life, you are a slave. Therefore you are, in the opinion of many people, entitled to reparations.

    I predict that there will be a lot of people, probably millions, who will qualify. Please remember that I thought of this, so I am at the front of the queue. I don't believe in reparations myself, and I am Australian, not American, but I won't let these minor details bother me - just send the money to...

    Replies: @Thomas Fuller, @ScarletNumber

    No, her father is Cuban.

  25. Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @countenance

    that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Having difficulty visualizing an approving look from the Eye of Sauron.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @AnotherDad
    @countenance


    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.
     
    Fetish is the wrong word here.

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of "white man fetish". Black *men* have a white woman fetish--a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    I'm no expert on black women, i haven't hung out with very many. But i've known about 10 black girls\women in my life well enough to have a good handle on their romantic\ sexual drivers and gone out with a couple (way back when). It's a 10-0 clean sweep, they are all looking for a strong black man.

    Just one anecdote: My next door neighbor--half'n'half, raised by her white mom. Attractive. Personable. Smart girl. Decent HS athlete. Excellent student. Has a PhD--soft (political\international)--from a major research university named for its railroad tycoon founder, where she got some mentoring from a former Secretary of State. She's not quite Kerry Washington, but she's got the right mix--her mom's attractive Caucasian facial features and a curvy, rocking body. (For BF--an easy 10.) She is personable and engaging, with a middle class, down-to-earth sensibility (her mom had a no-nonsense parenting style). White guys find her attractive. She's had white boyfriends. She's in an educated, professional milieu that is overwhelmingly white. And she went out and found herself a buppie husband.

    This is the pattern. Obviously there are some outliers. But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren't what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    However, i think you hit the nail on the head with the last word--"approvingly". The appeal of the show is the validation of a black woman--hence black women--as being sexually desirable. Including being so desirable that a white man will cheat on a--black women's arch enemy--white woman. But it isn't that black women have any sort of fetish for white guys, but rather they crave approval\validation as being desirable, as they face the bleak reality of black men rejecting them to chase white women.

    Replies: @SFG, @AnAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    , @anonymous-antiskynetist
    @countenance

    I can attest to this, as my mixed race librarian wife loves this show Scandal. As a white man I like to needle her when I catch her watching it on the laptop while folding clothes. "Did she get her claws in the Great White Father As The Indians Used To Call Him yet?".

    , @leper messiah
    @countenance

    Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron

    Not sure this is the case. I tend to agree with what Chris Rock states emphatically in his stand-up routines..."Hey White Guys!...Listen up!...Black women just do NOT find you desirable...know what I'm saying?...not trying to be mean here...just stating the facts!"

    I believe that this in fact true and could not give a rat's ass since the the feeling is mutual. I'll take any other woman of any race/ethnicity but no black diva for me - no matter how hot.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  26. I never heard of her before. Shonda is kinda cool on the scale of ghetto fabricated names. She is worth 60 million. Shonda Rhimes. She’s obese and has three adopted children as in raising them so she has her mothering instinct intact. No husband mentioned. My take is she is very intelligent and has good genetics. I have never seen Scandal but it I can see how blacks like it. I am going to give Shonda a plus rating.

  27. Curious that the SJWs have not gotten apoplectic over the rampant sexism on the Spanish-language TV shows.

    • Replies: @dsgntd_plyr
    @elmer

    Hispanic SJWs constantly complain about the whiteness of Hispanic programming. If Hispanic immigrants looked like Ana Brenda Contreras and William Levy Americans would support open borders.

  28. Two of the 12 contestants on Dancing With the Stars in the recent season were African-Americans — Michael Sam and Patti LaBelle.

    Sam is famous for being a professional football player who is gay and for therefore being permanently alienated from his father. He was the third contestant eliminated.

    LaBelle has a long, successful singing career and is a delightful person, but she is 71 years old. She was fifth contestant eliminated.

    This season’s DWTS did not appear in the list of top ten TV shows for African-Americans even though it is #2 for the general audience. I think that the show does better among African-Americans viewers in seasons where the African-American contestants are heterosexual and more competitive.

  29. To be honest, this cracker doesn’t watch anything with blacks in it(except the NFL).

    Just sayin’

  30. Somehow this post took me back to an old Larry Miller bit: “Ya know, I heard on Al Jazeera the other day– no no, I don’t watch it myself; but the kids seem to always have it on…”

  31. @EvolutionistX
    @Anonymous

    I assume it's a combination internal Jewish (Ashkenazi) cultural norms selecting highly literate people to be rabbis, scholars, etc. (rabbis often have a ton of kids,) and external cultural norms (anti-Semitism) having really negative effects on the dumber Jews. There may also be some other (essentially random as I understand it) cultural stuff that happened in Central/ Eastern Europe whereby Jews ended up in the early industrializing niche and so especially clever ones had another chance to get ahead.

    Replies: @Lurker

    You’re right and I’m sure there are no other reasons.

  32. @Muck Fexico
    The USA's southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should've created a buffer state of "cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert" in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @meh, @Anonym, @Harry Baldwin, @Perspective, @iSteveFan

    The more defensible approach would have been to push them down past a good choke point, like Panama.

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Anonym

    "The more defensible approach would have been to push them down past a good choke point, like Panama."

    You don't have to go all the way down to Panama; Mexico gets pretty narrow, just west of the Yucatan & Chiapas. Not as narrow as Panama, but narrow enough for a 1st World society like ours to police with great effectiveness. Sadly, its probably too late to implement such a plan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Tehuantepec

  33. The corollary to Steve’s post is: why so much media oxygen for shows watched by a few hundred thousand people at best, e.g. “Girls?” Wow, it’s almost as if nobody subscribes to egalitarianism and community spirit any more…

    btw if you were reading music journalism in the early ’00s you may remember a regnant cliche of writers complaining about how “the Beatles were the last band who were simultaneously the most popular and the best at what they did” [like all cliches, easy to pick apart; and in recent years has been updated/cloned for M.J. and even, retch, Beyonce Knowles — this last esp. funny for undermining the ancient nostalgia premise of the cliche]. Such lamentation about disappeared “common taste” or middlebrow authority struck me at the time as the media-geek version of liberals’ wailing about the demise of racial harmony some time ca. 1963. In these people’s minds there did exist, contrary to all factual data, an egalitarian Eden or at least it was almost achieved, until, you know, the 60s went & happened.

  34. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    @syonredux

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work? Presumably it's innate and there's a genetic reason for it. What would be the evolutionary reasons for this?

    Replies: @EvolutionistX, @Cagey Beast, @J.Ross, @SFG, @dsgntd_plyr

    It is the modern form of their historical power mechanism, the priests and prophets, which is also why Entertainment People seem so doggedly political. It isn’t that they do entertainment for a living, have a Damascus Road and subsequently start Saving the Earth, nor is it (often enough to be a genetal explanation) that they have no entertainment chops and snuck in to Spread the Word.
    For the Jew, mass media and telling everybody what to do with their lives are the same thing. Reading Bernays’ Propaganda as I hope you have or will, one is struck by the sincerity of the writer’s faith in the nobility and necessity of what would later be called Sunstein’s Nudge. People really will lead objectively better lives and make better decisions thanks to my selfless intrusion into their breakfast. Which allows me to bridge to real nastiness: there exist real Jewish academics, who can be surprisingly good at what they do, but clearly also a great many have that same Prophet mindset as the Entertainment People.

  35. This ‘Fusion’ channel sound a lot like that “Current’ channel Al Gore was involved in that featured ‘pods’ instead of TV shows and was supposed to be a venue for hip young people with short attention spans to find interesting. Gore and his partners Joel Hyatt and former Clinton friend Ron Burkle made money off it because Qatar wanted the satellite transponder spot for its Al Jazeera America channel not because the idea ever had any merit to it.

    The economics of modern TV are rather interesting. Ever since Discovery ‘discovered’ you could draw bigger audiences than the networks with nothing but a satellite/cable channel and reality TV shows like ‘Deadliest Catch’ or Pawn Stars all those ‘niche’ channels like History or A&E have decided that ‘niche’ broadcasting sucks so get rid of the history on the History Channel or Arts on the Arts and Entertainment Channel and go with rednecks hunting alligators like ‘Swamp People’ or hoodrats hunting hoodrats on the ‘First 48’ and you can get mass audiences that rival CBS or NBC. The few ‘specialty channels that survive like CNBC or The Golf Channel do so because, while they don’t have much audience their audience does have the kind of demographics advertisers want. Wonder what ‘Fusion’s’ angle is? Young brown people aren’t interested in investment funds nor can they afford a new Cadillac.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @unit472

    I recently found a cancelled Discovery show on YouTube called Fight Quest. Great concept for a reality show: 2 guys go around the world getting their asses kicked by experts in different martial arts.

  36. hal says:

    Anything with a token black character is a turn-off. Anything with a major black character, I turn-off. The bad acting and the simple lines/emotions are reserved for black actors. Their characters seems to range from mildly angry to very angry, pushy to authoritarian. I wonder if, in the future when our forced marriage to diversity has been annulled, if TNT will be able to decolorize so many of our diverse but otherwise watchable past-times.

    All this naturally excludes Ice-T on Law and Order, SVU. That guy could read the phone book and be interesting.

  37. SFG says:
    @Anonymous
    @syonredux

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work? Presumably it's innate and there's a genetic reason for it. What would be the evolutionary reasons for this?

    Replies: @EvolutionistX, @Cagey Beast, @J.Ross, @SFG, @dsgntd_plyr

    Verbal IQ, and once you get a hold on the media (these were rising industries in the early twentieth century that were open to outsiders without fancy degrees, etc.), it tends to perpetrate itself through nepotism.

    In a less crucial example, try opening a diner in Long Island if you’re not Greek.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @SFG

    I don't think IQ differences explain everything about overrepresentation in mass media work. Many European ethnicities seem not to be overrepresented or even underrepresented. Furthermore, lower IQ groups such as blacks are overrepresented as well. And lots of high IQ people are not attracted to mass media work, well less intelligent bimbo types are often. Indeed many high IQ people don't find it intellectually stimulating at all and are turned off by it. Clearly other factors are at work as well.

  38. TB2 [AKA "JohnB"] says:

    I’ve always said Americans will only really realize the disaster that has overtaken them once they see it on TV. It will soon no longer be possible to feature overwhelmingly white casts in shows set in majority non-white cities, or anywhere for that matter. When they’re forced to watch what is “naturally and natively interested in things that the rising generation of people in America are interested in” the couch potatoes will finally get it.

  39. SFG says:

    “Or is it a bunch of white executives strategizing over how to stick it to the old white men who watch Fox News by politically mobilizing the diverse masses of young brown women who, we’re assuming, are desperate for left-of-center political commentary? They are, aren’t they?”

    Was it formerly another station? Maybe they got stuck with Gethard as a carryover from an older incarnation. I think Spike used to be The Nashville Network.

    The whole thing reeks to me of some news media executive reading a report about how the future is young and brown and getting snowed by this fellow Lee foisting off a lousy property he has nothing else he can do with on him. I suspect if you’ve got half an hour you can find an interesting backstory.

  40. @countenance
    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we're all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that's supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @AnotherDad, @anonymous-antiskynetist, @leper messiah

    that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Having difficulty visualizing an approving look from the Eye of Sauron.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Harry Baldwin


    Having difficulty visualizing an approving look from the Eye of Sauron.
     
    +1
  41. Many 20th-century immigrants have told the story of how they learned how to be American by watching TV. I look at what’s on TV today, and where it’s headed according to articles like this one, and I wonder what the people who watch it now are learning. Or maybe they’ve already learned it and that’s what accounts for the rapid degeneration of the American middle class.

  42. @Muck Fexico
    The USA's southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should've created a buffer state of "cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert" in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @meh, @Anonym, @Harry Baldwin, @Perspective, @iSteveFan

    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    Or allow our Border Patrol to actively defend it. I’ve read a few books and newspaper articles about the Border Patrol in the pre-World War II decades. Smugglers crossed the border with illegal aliens and, during Prohibition, contraband booze. In those days the BP had no compunctions about opening fire on them. A veteran of that period, Charley Askins, wrote in his autobiography, Unrepentant Sinner:

    In the El Paso subdistrict alone during a ten-year period, there was an average of a gunfight every 17 days. There was never a good count on the number of smugglers who got shuffled off this mortal coil but in round numbers it was in the neighborhood of 500. It was hard to count the dead ones for ofttimes they managed to get into the houses of amigos on this side and there died; or they crippled back across the Rio Grande and cashed in their chips in the Land of Manana. But anyway 500 was a pretty good tally. That was an average of one dead smuggler every week for the whole period.

    An article on the Border Patrol in the The San Antonio Light (July 25, 1937) includes the passage, “Two patrolmen, armed with automatic rifles, pistols and night flares, sometimes roundup a dozen aliens on one sally. The officers do not guarantee, however, that the aliens intercepted will all be alive.”

    The article praises well-known gunfighter and Border Patrol officer Tom Threepersons, who once got into a fight at the Rio Grande in which he took five prisoners and killed eleven smugglers. It ends with an acknowledgment of the draw of America to Third Worlders, even in 1937:

    Good old southwestern friendship; genial, kindly old Uncle Sam. His relief rolls are packed with smuggled aliens. It’s the toughest obstacle the Border Patrol has to face—the inherent hospitality of America.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    @Harry Baldwin

    You think morale is bad in Baltimore and New York PDs, you should see the crater the Border Patrol morale is in.

  43. @countenance
    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we're all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that's supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @AnotherDad, @anonymous-antiskynetist, @leper messiah

    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Fetish is the wrong word here.

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of “white man fetish”. Black *men* have a white woman fetish–a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    I’m no expert on black women, i haven’t hung out with very many. But i’ve known about 10 black girls\women in my life well enough to have a good handle on their romantic\ sexual drivers and gone out with a couple (way back when). It’s a 10-0 clean sweep, they are all looking for a strong black man.

    Just one anecdote: My next door neighbor–half’n’half, raised by her white mom. Attractive. Personable. Smart girl. Decent HS athlete. Excellent student. Has a PhD–soft (political\international)–from a major research university named for its railroad tycoon founder, where she got some mentoring from a former Secretary of State. She’s not quite Kerry Washington, but she’s got the right mix–her mom’s attractive Caucasian facial features and a curvy, rocking body. (For BF–an easy 10.) She is personable and engaging, with a middle class, down-to-earth sensibility (her mom had a no-nonsense parenting style). White guys find her attractive. She’s had white boyfriends. She’s in an educated, professional milieu that is overwhelmingly white. And she went out and found herself a buppie husband.

    This is the pattern. Obviously there are some outliers. But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    However, i think you hit the nail on the head with the last word–“approvingly”. The appeal of the show is the validation of a black woman–hence black women–as being sexually desirable. Including being so desirable that a white man will cheat on a–black women’s arch enemy–white woman. But it isn’t that black women have any sort of fetish for white guys, but rather they crave approval\validation as being desirable, as they face the bleak reality of black men rejecting them to chase white women.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @AnotherDad

    You can see it in this Key and Peele skit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg58d8opQKA

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    So black women lose out to white women, and Asian men to white men. (Remember the angry Asian men blog?)

    Whites gain and lose on either end, so it's a wash.

    Sailer said as much in an earlier posting.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @AnAnon
    @AnotherDad

    "But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man. " - The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Hippopotamusdrome

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @AnotherDad

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of “white man fetish”. Black *men* have a white woman fetish–a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    On okcupid, black men rate black and white women equal, and a slightly higher rating to asian and latino:

    ------------------------------------
    okcupid: Race and Attraction, 2009 – 2014

    BLACK men rating... BLACK women -3%
    BLACK men rating... WHITE women -3%
    BLACK men rating... ASIAN women +3%
    BLACK men rating... LATINA women +3%
    -------------------------------------

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @AnotherDad

    But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men:
    Black women rating white men +0%
    White women rating black men -6%

    Also, black women rate asian men higher than white women do:
    Black women rating asian men +11%
    White women rating asian men -12%

    ---------------------------------
    okcupid: Race and Attraction, 2009 – 2014

    BLACK women rating... BLACK men +16%
    BLACK women rating... WHITE men +0%
    BLACK women rating... ASIAN men +11%

    WHITE women rating... BLACK men -6%
    WHITE women rating... WHITE men +16%
    WHITE women rating... ASIAN men -12%

    BLACK men rating... BLACK women -3%
    BLACK men rating... WHITE women -3%

    ---------------------------------

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @AnotherDad

    a curvy, rocking body

    Does that mean fat?

  44. What conservative media should be called.

    Con-fusion.

  45. @Harry Baldwin
    @countenance

    that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Having difficulty visualizing an approving look from the Eye of Sauron.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Having difficulty visualizing an approving look from the Eye of Sauron.

    +1

  46. … but mostly English-speaking Hispanics seem to watch what everybody else is watching, only more so.

    Actually what struck me is that the Hispanic ratings of English TV are so low. The black ones appear only very slightly higher than the global ones. But the Hispanic ones are less than half the global ones.

    They have TVs. We know Hispanics turn out for English languages movies–at least ones with car chases and explosions and stuff. And i’ve never seen a “Hispanic”–at least the Mestizo types–with a book. And Hispanic birthrates are down … so it’s not that they are busy doing that. What are they doing? Apparently they are watching Univision and Telemundo? So much for inclusion and integration. So much for a “nation”.

  47. SFG says:
    @AnotherDad
    @countenance


    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.
     
    Fetish is the wrong word here.

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of "white man fetish". Black *men* have a white woman fetish--a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    I'm no expert on black women, i haven't hung out with very many. But i've known about 10 black girls\women in my life well enough to have a good handle on their romantic\ sexual drivers and gone out with a couple (way back when). It's a 10-0 clean sweep, they are all looking for a strong black man.

    Just one anecdote: My next door neighbor--half'n'half, raised by her white mom. Attractive. Personable. Smart girl. Decent HS athlete. Excellent student. Has a PhD--soft (political\international)--from a major research university named for its railroad tycoon founder, where she got some mentoring from a former Secretary of State. She's not quite Kerry Washington, but she's got the right mix--her mom's attractive Caucasian facial features and a curvy, rocking body. (For BF--an easy 10.) She is personable and engaging, with a middle class, down-to-earth sensibility (her mom had a no-nonsense parenting style). White guys find her attractive. She's had white boyfriends. She's in an educated, professional milieu that is overwhelmingly white. And she went out and found herself a buppie husband.

    This is the pattern. Obviously there are some outliers. But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren't what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    However, i think you hit the nail on the head with the last word--"approvingly". The appeal of the show is the validation of a black woman--hence black women--as being sexually desirable. Including being so desirable that a white man will cheat on a--black women's arch enemy--white woman. But it isn't that black women have any sort of fetish for white guys, but rather they crave approval\validation as being desirable, as they face the bleak reality of black men rejecting them to chase white women.

    Replies: @SFG, @AnAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    You can see it in this Key and Peele skit:

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    So black women lose out to white women, and Asian men to white men. (Remember the angry Asian men blog?)

    Whites gain and lose on either end, so it’s a wash.

    Sailer said as much in an earlier posting.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @SFG


    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

     

    That's the physical. The mental spectrum goes the other way. Asians are stoic, Africans crybabies.

    Replies: @SFG

    , @Twinkie
    @SFG


    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.
     
    And yet, if we could use the Olympic sports prowess as a proxy for masculinity, whites and Asians seem to do just fine:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table

    Just because black and Hispanic thugs like to assault law-abiding whites and Asians in urban areas does not make them more "masculine." War-making is just about the most masculine thing there is, and white and Asian men do it far better than black and Hispanic men do.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @anonymous
    @SFG


    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.
     
    I'm going to challenge that. You're conflating being a loudmouthed lunkhead with being masculine. Also, intelligence is left out of your equation so therefore the dumber a person is the more masculine they are so the really really stupid are hyper-masculine. Not in my world.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @SFG

    Least masculine are Indian/Pakistani.

    They're also the least desired.

    See Okcupid: http://i.imgur.com/4MocK2K.png

    Replies: @Twinkie

  48. @Anonymous
    @syonredux

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work? Presumably it's innate and there's a genetic reason for it. What would be the evolutionary reasons for this?

    Replies: @EvolutionistX, @Cagey Beast, @J.Ross, @SFG, @dsgntd_plyr

    Why are Jews so interested in and attracted to mass media work?

    “”Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.” Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party) is the political ideology of the totalitarian government of Oceania in George Orwell’s dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four.” – Wiki for Ingsoc

  49. Fusion is one of those channels that only exists because of the lack of a la carte pay-tv pricing. If the GOP were smart (I know) they’d mandate a la carte to hurt The Left.

  50. @elmer
    Curious that the SJWs have not gotten apoplectic over the rampant sexism on the Spanish-language TV shows.

    Replies: @dsgntd_plyr

    Hispanic SJWs constantly complain about the whiteness of Hispanic programming. If Hispanic immigrants looked like Ana Brenda Contreras and William Levy Americans would support open borders.

  51. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    @Anonymous

    Verbal IQ, and once you get a hold on the media (these were rising industries in the early twentieth century that were open to outsiders without fancy degrees, etc.), it tends to perpetrate itself through nepotism.

    In a less crucial example, try opening a diner in Long Island if you're not Greek.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I don’t think IQ differences explain everything about overrepresentation in mass media work. Many European ethnicities seem not to be overrepresented or even underrepresented. Furthermore, lower IQ groups such as blacks are overrepresented as well. And lots of high IQ people are not attracted to mass media work, well less intelligent bimbo types are often. Indeed many high IQ people don’t find it intellectually stimulating at all and are turned off by it. Clearly other factors are at work as well.

  52. @unit472
    This 'Fusion' channel sound a lot like that "Current' channel Al Gore was involved in that featured 'pods' instead of TV shows and was supposed to be a venue for hip young people with short attention spans to find interesting. Gore and his partners Joel Hyatt and former Clinton friend Ron Burkle made money off it because Qatar wanted the satellite transponder spot for its Al Jazeera America channel not because the idea ever had any merit to it.

    The economics of modern TV are rather interesting. Ever since Discovery 'discovered' you could draw bigger audiences than the networks with nothing but a satellite/cable channel and reality TV shows like 'Deadliest Catch' or Pawn Stars all those 'niche' channels like History or A&E have decided that 'niche' broadcasting sucks so get rid of the history on the History Channel or Arts on the Arts and Entertainment Channel and go with rednecks hunting alligators like 'Swamp People' or hoodrats hunting hoodrats on the 'First 48' and you can get mass audiences that rival CBS or NBC. The few 'specialty channels that survive like CNBC or The Golf Channel do so because, while they don't have much audience their audience does have the kind of demographics advertisers want. Wonder what 'Fusion's' angle is? Young brown people aren't interested in investment funds nor can they afford a new Cadillac.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    I recently found a cancelled Discovery show on YouTube called Fight Quest. Great concept for a reality show: 2 guys go around the world getting their asses kicked by experts in different martial arts.

  53. @countenance
    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we're all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that's supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @AnotherDad, @anonymous-antiskynetist, @leper messiah

    I can attest to this, as my mixed race librarian wife loves this show Scandal. As a white man I like to needle her when I catch her watching it on the laptop while folding clothes. “Did she get her claws in the Great White Father As The Indians Used To Call Him yet?”.

  54. @AnotherDad
    @countenance


    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.
     
    Fetish is the wrong word here.

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of "white man fetish". Black *men* have a white woman fetish--a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    I'm no expert on black women, i haven't hung out with very many. But i've known about 10 black girls\women in my life well enough to have a good handle on their romantic\ sexual drivers and gone out with a couple (way back when). It's a 10-0 clean sweep, they are all looking for a strong black man.

    Just one anecdote: My next door neighbor--half'n'half, raised by her white mom. Attractive. Personable. Smart girl. Decent HS athlete. Excellent student. Has a PhD--soft (political\international)--from a major research university named for its railroad tycoon founder, where she got some mentoring from a former Secretary of State. She's not quite Kerry Washington, but she's got the right mix--her mom's attractive Caucasian facial features and a curvy, rocking body. (For BF--an easy 10.) She is personable and engaging, with a middle class, down-to-earth sensibility (her mom had a no-nonsense parenting style). White guys find her attractive. She's had white boyfriends. She's in an educated, professional milieu that is overwhelmingly white. And she went out and found herself a buppie husband.

    This is the pattern. Obviously there are some outliers. But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren't what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    However, i think you hit the nail on the head with the last word--"approvingly". The appeal of the show is the validation of a black woman--hence black women--as being sexually desirable. Including being so desirable that a white man will cheat on a--black women's arch enemy--white woman. But it isn't that black women have any sort of fetish for white guys, but rather they crave approval\validation as being desirable, as they face the bleak reality of black men rejecting them to chase white women.

    Replies: @SFG, @AnAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    “But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man. ” – The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @AnAnon


    The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.
     
    They have a high bar for dominance, and the vast majority of white men who clear it have and are exercising other options. Racist dick is real.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @AnAnon

    The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men:
    Black women rating white men +0%
    White women rating black men -6%

    Replies: @AnAnon

  55. @Harry Baldwin
    @Muck Fexico

    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    Or allow our Border Patrol to actively defend it. I've read a few books and newspaper articles about the Border Patrol in the pre-World War II decades. Smugglers crossed the border with illegal aliens and, during Prohibition, contraband booze. In those days the BP had no compunctions about opening fire on them. A veteran of that period, Charley Askins, wrote in his autobiography, Unrepentant Sinner:


    In the El Paso subdistrict alone during a ten-year period, there was an average of a gunfight every 17 days. There was never a good count on the number of smugglers who got shuffled off this mortal coil but in round numbers it was in the neighborhood of 500. It was hard to count the dead ones for ofttimes they managed to get into the houses of amigos on this side and there died; or they crippled back across the Rio Grande and cashed in their chips in the Land of Manana. But anyway 500 was a pretty good tally. That was an average of one dead smuggler every week for the whole period.
     
    An article on the Border Patrol in the The San Antonio Light (July 25, 1937) includes the passage, "Two patrolmen, armed with automatic rifles, pistols and night flares, sometimes roundup a dozen aliens on one sally. The officers do not guarantee, however, that the aliens intercepted will all be alive."

    The article praises well-known gunfighter and Border Patrol officer Tom Threepersons, who once got into a fight at the Rio Grande in which he took five prisoners and killed eleven smugglers. It ends with an acknowledgment of the draw of America to Third Worlders, even in 1937:

    Good old southwestern friendship; genial, kindly old Uncle Sam. His relief rolls are packed with smuggled aliens. It's the toughest obstacle the Border Patrol has to face—the inherent hospitality of America.
     

    Replies: @Jack Hanson

    You think morale is bad in Baltimore and New York PDs, you should see the crater the Border Patrol morale is in.

  56. @Muck Fexico
    The USA's southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should've created a buffer state of "cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert" in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @meh, @Anonym, @Harry Baldwin, @Perspective, @iSteveFan

    Yes, if a successful, prosperous, and relatively peaceful Hispanic (mostly European) state has developed in present day northern Mexico, it could have provided an effective barrier to illegal immigrants. How would the US be different today?

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Perspective

    Yes, if a successful, prosperous, and relatively peaceful Hispanic (mostly European) state has developed in present day northern Mexico

    We should name this imaginary state. Its over Mexico, so it should have the letters "ex" in its name. What about "Texas"?

  57. @meh
    @Muck Fexico


    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should’ve created a buffer state of “cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert” in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.
     
    The ghost of William Walker would like to have a word with you, sir!

    Replies: @Boomstick

    Nicholas Trist is history’s greatest monster. He was the doofus diplomat who let the Mexicans keep Baja California after the Mexican-American war. A border running from Big Bend in Texas straight to the Gulf of California, plus Baja, would have shortened the land border by 500 miles and opened up the mouth of the Colorado river as a port.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Boomstick

    What's the coastline along Baja like development-wise?

    Replies: @Boomstick

    , @SPMoore8
    @Boomstick

    I think Trist comes out looking badly, for a number of things, but I don't think not getting Baja was a big deal.

    For one thing, any port city at the Colorado mouth would be ridiculously easy to blockade. Furthermore, it doesn't look like very easy navigation, either. This is assuming that the Colorado delta was amenable to being made into a port in the first place. Looks like the Mexicans never did anything with hit.

    The more of Mexico we took over the more Mexicans with it (see Israel.) Clearly the Anglo Americans never did enough to populate the Southwest in the first place.

    If you really didn't want a Hispanic America, you could do some things. One would be to deliberately over-populate your Europoid group and export them, either by force (colonization) or infiltration, because the best defense is a good offense. But most women don't want to have 6+ kids, and neither do most men want to be chained to having and raising that many kids, on the contrary, the message to most Americans is that you need half a million dollars to have a single child, or something. I suppose we could open our doors to Euro immigration, and then the million Poles who went to the UK could come here, and then migrate and get jobs in Sonora and Chihuahua and then in 20 years we could annex those states in a six day war to protect against lawlessness, etc. Rinse and repeat. But there's no national will for that.

    Replies: @Boomstick

  58. @AnAnon
    @AnotherDad

    "But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man. " - The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Hippopotamusdrome

    The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    They have a high bar for dominance, and the vast majority of white men who clear it have and are exercising other options. Racist dick is real.

  59. @Boomstick
    @meh

    Nicholas Trist is history's greatest monster. He was the doofus diplomat who let the Mexicans keep Baja California after the Mexican-American war. A border running from Big Bend in Texas straight to the Gulf of California, plus Baja, would have shortened the land border by 500 miles and opened up the mouth of the Colorado river as a port.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @SPMoore8

    What’s the coastline along Baja like development-wise?

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @Desiderius

    It's short on water, and there's no plausible way to get more there in the same way that the Sierras or the Colorado was tamed and put to use for development. But the coastline is superb. Both the coasts would make fine condo-fodder in the style of Cabo San Lucas, and the peninsula currently supports a population of three or four million even with limited water. If Trist hadn't fumbled the ball I think under US sovereignty it would have developed as a haven for artists and sailboaters, and La Paz would have been an important naval port for a time. The mouth of the Colorado probably would have developed as a major port and rail hub. The revised border would have run across mostly desert, which is easier to patrol, and still been well north of the major Mexican population centers and 100 miles of salt water away from the mainland.

    Plus surfing.

  60. @countenance
    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we're all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that's supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin, @AnotherDad, @anonymous-antiskynetist, @leper messiah

    Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron

    Not sure this is the case. I tend to agree with what Chris Rock states emphatically in his stand-up routines…”Hey White Guys!…Listen up!…Black women just do NOT find you desirable…know what I’m saying?…not trying to be mean here…just stating the facts!”

    I believe that this in fact true and could not give a rat’s ass since the the feeling is mutual. I’ll take any other woman of any race/ethnicity but no black diva for me – no matter how hot.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @leper messiah

    You're undoubedly right, in both directions. When I was 33 and playing a lot of tennis, a black woman in Berkeley in her early 20s said to me, "you have the best legs I've ever seen." I couldn't have cared less.

  61. @SFG
    @AnotherDad

    You can see it in this Key and Peele skit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg58d8opQKA

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    So black women lose out to white women, and Asian men to white men. (Remember the angry Asian men blog?)

    Whites gain and lose on either end, so it's a wash.

    Sailer said as much in an earlier posting.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    That’s the physical. The mental spectrum goes the other way. Asians are stoic, Africans crybabies.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Reg Cæsar

    Some truth to that, though Africans display more male behavior like violence. They do tend to be better at emotionally driven, 'feminine' things like singing and dancing.

    It's a mix overall, but the physical is what matters most for mating.

  62. @Boomstick
    @meh

    Nicholas Trist is history's greatest monster. He was the doofus diplomat who let the Mexicans keep Baja California after the Mexican-American war. A border running from Big Bend in Texas straight to the Gulf of California, plus Baja, would have shortened the land border by 500 miles and opened up the mouth of the Colorado river as a port.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @SPMoore8

    I think Trist comes out looking badly, for a number of things, but I don’t think not getting Baja was a big deal.

    For one thing, any port city at the Colorado mouth would be ridiculously easy to blockade. Furthermore, it doesn’t look like very easy navigation, either. This is assuming that the Colorado delta was amenable to being made into a port in the first place. Looks like the Mexicans never did anything with hit.

    The more of Mexico we took over the more Mexicans with it (see Israel.) Clearly the Anglo Americans never did enough to populate the Southwest in the first place.

    If you really didn’t want a Hispanic America, you could do some things. One would be to deliberately over-populate your Europoid group and export them, either by force (colonization) or infiltration, because the best defense is a good offense. But most women don’t want to have 6+ kids, and neither do most men want to be chained to having and raising that many kids, on the contrary, the message to most Americans is that you need half a million dollars to have a single child, or something. I suppose we could open our doors to Euro immigration, and then the million Poles who went to the UK could come here, and then migrate and get jobs in Sonora and Chihuahua and then in 20 years we could annex those states in a six day war to protect against lawlessness, etc. Rinse and repeat. But there’s no national will for that.

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @SPMoore8

    The Colorado River itself was eventually entirely devoted to irrigation; it no longer reaches the sea. But at the time riverboats could make it to Yuma and to Phoenix along the Gila river from the mouth, and rail would have quickly developed. As it was the requirement to cross an international border (with dodgy Mexican customs officials) meant it was economically implausible. In the late 19th century rail replaced river boat travel but it could have been a significant port of entry. A blockade would have been an issue only if there was 1) a subsequent war with Mexico, and 2) the Mexicans had the ability to interdict traffic. Neither is plausible.

    In 1848 there weren't many Mexicans there. La Paz had a population of only 500 during the war. As late as 1960 it only had a population of 25K. The population center for Mexico is Mexico City and the proposed border change was basically moving the border south a hundred miles deeper into the unpopulated desert, with a big buffer of desert remaining before any population centers.

    Now of course it would be out of the question. Too many Mexicans are there.

  63. @AnotherDad
    @countenance


    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.
     
    Fetish is the wrong word here.

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of "white man fetish". Black *men* have a white woman fetish--a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    I'm no expert on black women, i haven't hung out with very many. But i've known about 10 black girls\women in my life well enough to have a good handle on their romantic\ sexual drivers and gone out with a couple (way back when). It's a 10-0 clean sweep, they are all looking for a strong black man.

    Just one anecdote: My next door neighbor--half'n'half, raised by her white mom. Attractive. Personable. Smart girl. Decent HS athlete. Excellent student. Has a PhD--soft (political\international)--from a major research university named for its railroad tycoon founder, where she got some mentoring from a former Secretary of State. She's not quite Kerry Washington, but she's got the right mix--her mom's attractive Caucasian facial features and a curvy, rocking body. (For BF--an easy 10.) She is personable and engaging, with a middle class, down-to-earth sensibility (her mom had a no-nonsense parenting style). White guys find her attractive. She's had white boyfriends. She's in an educated, professional milieu that is overwhelmingly white. And she went out and found herself a buppie husband.

    This is the pattern. Obviously there are some outliers. But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren't what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    However, i think you hit the nail on the head with the last word--"approvingly". The appeal of the show is the validation of a black woman--hence black women--as being sexually desirable. Including being so desirable that a white man will cheat on a--black women's arch enemy--white woman. But it isn't that black women have any sort of fetish for white guys, but rather they crave approval\validation as being desirable, as they face the bleak reality of black men rejecting them to chase white women.

    Replies: @SFG, @AnAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of “white man fetish”. Black *men* have a white woman fetish–a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    On okcupid, black men rate black and white women equal, and a slightly higher rating to asian and latino:

    ————————————
    okcupid: Race and Attraction, 2009 – 2014

    BLACK men rating… BLACK women -3%
    BLACK men rating… WHITE women -3%
    BLACK men rating… ASIAN women +3%
    BLACK men rating… LATINA women +3%
    ————————————-

  64. @AnotherDad
    @countenance


    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.
     
    Fetish is the wrong word here.

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of "white man fetish". Black *men* have a white woman fetish--a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    I'm no expert on black women, i haven't hung out with very many. But i've known about 10 black girls\women in my life well enough to have a good handle on their romantic\ sexual drivers and gone out with a couple (way back when). It's a 10-0 clean sweep, they are all looking for a strong black man.

    Just one anecdote: My next door neighbor--half'n'half, raised by her white mom. Attractive. Personable. Smart girl. Decent HS athlete. Excellent student. Has a PhD--soft (political\international)--from a major research university named for its railroad tycoon founder, where she got some mentoring from a former Secretary of State. She's not quite Kerry Washington, but she's got the right mix--her mom's attractive Caucasian facial features and a curvy, rocking body. (For BF--an easy 10.) She is personable and engaging, with a middle class, down-to-earth sensibility (her mom had a no-nonsense parenting style). White guys find her attractive. She's had white boyfriends. She's in an educated, professional milieu that is overwhelmingly white. And she went out and found herself a buppie husband.

    This is the pattern. Obviously there are some outliers. But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren't what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    However, i think you hit the nail on the head with the last word--"approvingly". The appeal of the show is the validation of a black woman--hence black women--as being sexually desirable. Including being so desirable that a white man will cheat on a--black women's arch enemy--white woman. But it isn't that black women have any sort of fetish for white guys, but rather they crave approval\validation as being desirable, as they face the bleak reality of black men rejecting them to chase white women.

    Replies: @SFG, @AnAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men:
    Black women rating white men +0%
    White women rating black men -6%

    Also, black women rate asian men higher than white women do:
    Black women rating asian men +11%
    White women rating asian men -12%

    ———————————
    okcupid: Race and Attraction, 2009 – 2014

    BLACK women rating… BLACK men +16%
    BLACK women rating… WHITE men +0%
    BLACK women rating… ASIAN men +11%

    WHITE women rating… BLACK men -6%
    WHITE women rating… WHITE men +16%
    WHITE women rating… ASIAN men -12%

    BLACK men rating… BLACK women -3%
    BLACK men rating… WHITE women -3%

    ———————————

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    Also, black women rate asian men higher than white women do:
    Black women rating asian men +11%
    White women rating asian men -12%
     
    And yet, Asian men intermarry with white women at far higher rates than they do with black women. This inconsistency alone ought to tell you that an internet dating site's preference data suffers from a large selection bias and doesn't reflect the general real world preferences.

    Now, I've been married happily over 20 years, so I know nothing about internet dating (I met my wife on an Ivy League campus). But my younger acquaintances almost universally told me that internet dating is for losers, the morally-challenged (one night standers), and Green Card-seeking foreigners.

    Most normal people still find their mates through school, church or work. And that is particularly the case with the more highly educated.

    Replies: @Alex M

  65. @AnAnon
    @AnotherDad

    "But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man. " - The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Hippopotamusdrome

    The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men:
    Black women rating white men +0%
    White women rating black men -6%

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    "On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men" - not disagreeing, and again the response data backs that up that white women prefer white men. But all I said was that black women prefer black men.

  66. @Perspective
    @Muck Fexico

    Yes, if a successful, prosperous, and relatively peaceful Hispanic (mostly European) state has developed in present day northern Mexico, it could have provided an effective barrier to illegal immigrants. How would the US be different today?

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    Yes, if a successful, prosperous, and relatively peaceful Hispanic (mostly European) state has developed in present day northern Mexico

    We should name this imaginary state. Its over Mexico, so it should have the letters “ex” in its name. What about “Texas”?

  67. @AnotherDad
    @countenance


    Black women love Scandal because one of its main story lines is a powerful white man cheating on his white wife with a black woman. For much the same reason black women turned out in droves to vote for Bill de Blasio. Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron staring at her approvingly.
     
    Fetish is the wrong word here.

    Black women certainly do not have any sort of "white man fetish". Black *men* have a white woman fetish--a *serious* white woman fetish. The reverse is simply not the case.

    I'm no expert on black women, i haven't hung out with very many. But i've known about 10 black girls\women in my life well enough to have a good handle on their romantic\ sexual drivers and gone out with a couple (way back when). It's a 10-0 clean sweep, they are all looking for a strong black man.

    Just one anecdote: My next door neighbor--half'n'half, raised by her white mom. Attractive. Personable. Smart girl. Decent HS athlete. Excellent student. Has a PhD--soft (political\international)--from a major research university named for its railroad tycoon founder, where she got some mentoring from a former Secretary of State. She's not quite Kerry Washington, but she's got the right mix--her mom's attractive Caucasian facial features and a curvy, rocking body. (For BF--an easy 10.) She is personable and engaging, with a middle class, down-to-earth sensibility (her mom had a no-nonsense parenting style). White guys find her attractive. She's had white boyfriends. She's in an educated, professional milieu that is overwhelmingly white. And she went out and found herself a buppie husband.

    This is the pattern. Obviously there are some outliers. But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren't what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    However, i think you hit the nail on the head with the last word--"approvingly". The appeal of the show is the validation of a black woman--hence black women--as being sexually desirable. Including being so desirable that a white man will cheat on a--black women's arch enemy--white woman. But it isn't that black women have any sort of fetish for white guys, but rather they crave approval\validation as being desirable, as they face the bleak reality of black men rejecting them to chase white women.

    Replies: @SFG, @AnAnon, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    a curvy, rocking body

    Does that mean fat?

  68. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Not sure this is the case. I tend to agree with what Chris Rock states emphatically in his stand-up routines…”

    Well, what else would you expect Chris Rock to say? It’s not like he’s honest on racial issues or isn’t hostile to white men especially.

    I’ve always found black women to be very flirtatious when black men aren’t around. I’m just not remotely attracted to them on any level. I think that’s the usual way these things play out.

    • Replies: @Fun
    @Anonymous

    Plenty of black women would date (or do) white guys. But as a rule, they are more comfortable with and attracted to black men.

  69. @Anonymous
    "Not sure this is the case. I tend to agree with what Chris Rock states emphatically in his stand-up routines…"

    Well, what else would you expect Chris Rock to say? It's not like he's honest on racial issues or isn't hostile to white men especially.

    I've always found black women to be very flirtatious when black men aren't around. I'm just not remotely attracted to them on any level. I think that's the usual way these things play out.

    Replies: @Fun

    Plenty of black women would date (or do) white guys. But as a rule, they are more comfortable with and attracted to black men.

  70. Clearly the Anglo Americans never did enough to populate the Southwest in the first place.

    The Southwest is mostly desert or semi-desert, with not enough water for a dense population.

    For one thing, any port city at the Colorado mouth would be ridiculously easy to blockade. Furthermore, it doesn’t look like very easy navigation, either.

    Large ships on the Colorado River isn’t the idea. The better idea is to have American-controlled railroads connecting to a port near the top of the Gulf of California, thereby bypassing Mexifornia …. Fantasizing here about Mexifornia remaining under Washington government control, but Texas to Arizona being part of the New CSA.

  71. @Reg Cæsar
    @SFG


    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

     

    That's the physical. The mental spectrum goes the other way. Asians are stoic, Africans crybabies.

    Replies: @SFG

    Some truth to that, though Africans display more male behavior like violence. They do tend to be better at emotionally driven, ‘feminine’ things like singing and dancing.

    It’s a mix overall, but the physical is what matters most for mating.

  72. @Truth
    @Twinkie

    Couldn't stay away, could you?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Don’t you find it comical that this black professor spends bulk of the op-ed valorizing the historically black colleges only to mention ever so slightly at the very end that she’s leaving for a predominantly white university?

    To me, this perfectly captures the general mood of the black population – “Black power! Black power! Oh, wait, what? You’re giving me a job in the nice white neighborhood? See y’all later. I know it looks like I’m abandoning y’all, but keep the faith, my brothers and sisters! I am just going to be fighting the white power structure from the inside.”

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Twinkie


    Don’t you find it comical that this black professor spends bulk of the op-ed valorizing the historically black colleges only to mention ever so slightly at the very end that she’s leaving for a predominantly white university?
     
    No, they pay more.
  73. @Desiderius
    @Boomstick

    What's the coastline along Baja like development-wise?

    Replies: @Boomstick

    It’s short on water, and there’s no plausible way to get more there in the same way that the Sierras or the Colorado was tamed and put to use for development. But the coastline is superb. Both the coasts would make fine condo-fodder in the style of Cabo San Lucas, and the peninsula currently supports a population of three or four million even with limited water. If Trist hadn’t fumbled the ball I think under US sovereignty it would have developed as a haven for artists and sailboaters, and La Paz would have been an important naval port for a time. The mouth of the Colorado probably would have developed as a major port and rail hub. The revised border would have run across mostly desert, which is easier to patrol, and still been well north of the major Mexican population centers and 100 miles of salt water away from the mainland.

    Plus surfing.

  74. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @AnAnon

    The okcupid data shows that black women respond the least to white men, and the most to black men, so that makes sense.

    On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men:
    Black women rating white men +0%
    White women rating black men -6%

    Replies: @AnAnon

    “On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men” – not disagreeing, and again the response data backs that up that white women prefer white men. But all I said was that black women prefer black men.

  75. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @AnotherDad

    But for the vast majority of black women, white men really aren’t what turns their crank. What they really really want is a black man.

    On okcupid, white women rate black men lower than black women rate white men:
    Black women rating white men +0%
    White women rating black men -6%

    Also, black women rate asian men higher than white women do:
    Black women rating asian men +11%
    White women rating asian men -12%

    ---------------------------------
    okcupid: Race and Attraction, 2009 – 2014

    BLACK women rating... BLACK men +16%
    BLACK women rating... WHITE men +0%
    BLACK women rating... ASIAN men +11%

    WHITE women rating... BLACK men -6%
    WHITE women rating... WHITE men +16%
    WHITE women rating... ASIAN men -12%

    BLACK men rating... BLACK women -3%
    BLACK men rating... WHITE women -3%

    ---------------------------------

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Also, black women rate asian men higher than white women do:
    Black women rating asian men +11%
    White women rating asian men -12%

    And yet, Asian men intermarry with white women at far higher rates than they do with black women. This inconsistency alone ought to tell you that an internet dating site’s preference data suffers from a large selection bias and doesn’t reflect the general real world preferences.

    Now, I’ve been married happily over 20 years, so I know nothing about internet dating (I met my wife on an Ivy League campus). But my younger acquaintances almost universally told me that internet dating is for losers, the morally-challenged (one night standers), and Green Card-seeking foreigners.

    Most normal people still find their mates through school, church or work. And that is particularly the case with the more highly educated.

    • Replies: @Alex M
    @Twinkie


    This inconsistency alone ought to tell you that an internet dating site’s preference data suffers from a large selection bias and doesn’t reflect the general real world preferences.
     
    Other studies have confirmed that Asian men are women repellents, particularly white women repellents. Here is a post by Razib Khan discussing one such study which centered around Columbia University grad students.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/

    Replies: @Twinkie

  76. @SFG
    @AnotherDad

    You can see it in this Key and Peele skit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg58d8opQKA

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    So black women lose out to white women, and Asian men to white men. (Remember the angry Asian men blog?)

    Whites gain and lose on either end, so it's a wash.

    Sailer said as much in an earlier posting.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    And yet, if we could use the Olympic sports prowess as a proxy for masculinity, whites and Asians seem to do just fine:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table

    Just because black and Hispanic thugs like to assault law-abiding whites and Asians in urban areas does not make them more “masculine.” War-making is just about the most masculine thing there is, and white and Asian men do it far better than black and Hispanic men do.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, women are just not that interested in Asian men. Including Asian women, when they have the choice. No Olympic medal table can change that simple fact.

    Replies: @Scotty G. Vito, @Twinkie

  77. @Muck Fexico
    The USA's southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    And the best large obstacles between two countries are:

    1 an ocean
    2 another country

    We should've created a buffer state of "cashed-up bogans hooning across the desert" in Northernmost Mexico plus Baja.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @meh, @Anonym, @Harry Baldwin, @Perspective, @iSteveFan

    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.

    We used to maintain a string of Army forts along the border. It wouldn’t take much, and it would be a fantastic training opportunity to reemploy such a policy.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @iSteveFan


    We used to maintain a string of Army forts along the border. It wouldn’t take much, and it would be a fantastic training opportunity to reemploy such a policy.
     
    I believe it was Lycurgus the Lawgiver of Sparta who allegedly said that a rampart of men is better than that of stone... which I suppose is the reason Sparta never had a wall (but did have the finest hoplites in Greece).

    Forts and walls on the southern border are nice and all, but what is really necessary is the will to guard it. Even without a physical obstacle, if there were a political will to protect the border, an effective measure could be put to effect tomorrow.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  78. @SPMoore8
    @Boomstick

    I think Trist comes out looking badly, for a number of things, but I don't think not getting Baja was a big deal.

    For one thing, any port city at the Colorado mouth would be ridiculously easy to blockade. Furthermore, it doesn't look like very easy navigation, either. This is assuming that the Colorado delta was amenable to being made into a port in the first place. Looks like the Mexicans never did anything with hit.

    The more of Mexico we took over the more Mexicans with it (see Israel.) Clearly the Anglo Americans never did enough to populate the Southwest in the first place.

    If you really didn't want a Hispanic America, you could do some things. One would be to deliberately over-populate your Europoid group and export them, either by force (colonization) or infiltration, because the best defense is a good offense. But most women don't want to have 6+ kids, and neither do most men want to be chained to having and raising that many kids, on the contrary, the message to most Americans is that you need half a million dollars to have a single child, or something. I suppose we could open our doors to Euro immigration, and then the million Poles who went to the UK could come here, and then migrate and get jobs in Sonora and Chihuahua and then in 20 years we could annex those states in a six day war to protect against lawlessness, etc. Rinse and repeat. But there's no national will for that.

    Replies: @Boomstick

    The Colorado River itself was eventually entirely devoted to irrigation; it no longer reaches the sea. But at the time riverboats could make it to Yuma and to Phoenix along the Gila river from the mouth, and rail would have quickly developed. As it was the requirement to cross an international border (with dodgy Mexican customs officials) meant it was economically implausible. In the late 19th century rail replaced river boat travel but it could have been a significant port of entry. A blockade would have been an issue only if there was 1) a subsequent war with Mexico, and 2) the Mexicans had the ability to interdict traffic. Neither is plausible.

    In 1848 there weren’t many Mexicans there. La Paz had a population of only 500 during the war. As late as 1960 it only had a population of 25K. The population center for Mexico is Mexico City and the proposed border change was basically moving the border south a hundred miles deeper into the unpopulated desert, with a big buffer of desert remaining before any population centers.

    Now of course it would be out of the question. Too many Mexicans are there.

  79. @iSteveFan
    @Muck Fexico


    The USA’s southern border was always lame. You really need a giant obstacle to have a functioning border long term.
     
    We used to maintain a string of Army forts along the border. It wouldn't take much, and it would be a fantastic training opportunity to reemploy such a policy.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    We used to maintain a string of Army forts along the border. It wouldn’t take much, and it would be a fantastic training opportunity to reemploy such a policy.

    I believe it was Lycurgus the Lawgiver of Sparta who allegedly said that a rampart of men is better than that of stone… which I suppose is the reason Sparta never had a wall (but did have the finest hoplites in Greece).

    Forts and walls on the southern border are nice and all, but what is really necessary is the will to guard it. Even without a physical obstacle, if there were a political will to protect the border, an effective measure could be put to effect tomorrow.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    I believe it was Lycurgus the Lawgiver of Sparta who allegedly said that a rampart of men is better than that of stone… which I suppose is the reason Sparta never had a wall (but did have the finest hoplites in Greece).

     

    Until Epaminondas showed up.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  80. @Twinkie
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    Also, black women rate asian men higher than white women do:
    Black women rating asian men +11%
    White women rating asian men -12%
     
    And yet, Asian men intermarry with white women at far higher rates than they do with black women. This inconsistency alone ought to tell you that an internet dating site's preference data suffers from a large selection bias and doesn't reflect the general real world preferences.

    Now, I've been married happily over 20 years, so I know nothing about internet dating (I met my wife on an Ivy League campus). But my younger acquaintances almost universally told me that internet dating is for losers, the morally-challenged (one night standers), and Green Card-seeking foreigners.

    Most normal people still find their mates through school, church or work. And that is particularly the case with the more highly educated.

    Replies: @Alex M

    This inconsistency alone ought to tell you that an internet dating site’s preference data suffers from a large selection bias and doesn’t reflect the general real world preferences.

    Other studies have confirmed that Asian men are women repellents, particularly white women repellents. Here is a post by Razib Khan discussing one such study which centered around Columbia University grad students.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Alex M


    Asian men are women repellents, particularly white women repellents
     
    I know you desperately want to believe that, but the generalized data do not support the contention. Step onto any Ivy League university campus today and you will see quite a few Asian male-white female couples. Or for that matter step into any mega church in an area with a decent size Asian population. You will see that Asian male-white females couples are a dime a dozen. (The appeared pretty rare to me 20+ years ago when I married my wife, but now they are so common in many areas that I stopped being surprised to see another couple like my wife and me.)

    On the other hand, Mexican male-white female couples on such campuses... not so many. But that's largely a function of the scarcity of Mexican males at Ivy League universities as well as their relative segregation.

    By the way, you might pay attention to Razib Khan's numbers, especially this part:

    First, let’s keep this in perspective, here are the correlations from the GSS for married individuals for several variables of note (I’ve filtered for whites here):
    Ethnicity – 0.40
    Highest Degree – 0.55
    Socioeconomic index – 0.32
    I think it’s interesting to note that the variable which reveals meritocratic achievement has the highest correlation. Ethnicity is something you’re born into, and socioeconomic index is a metric which derives from the milieu in which you were raised.
     
    Do you understand what that means?

    Replies: @Alex M

  81. A blockade would have been an issue only if there was 1) a subsequent war with Mexico

    I was thinking or daydreaming in terms of the Washington government navy vs. the New CSA.

    The Mexcun Navy would be inconsequential.

  82. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    @AnotherDad

    You can see it in this Key and Peele skit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg58d8opQKA

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    So black women lose out to white women, and Asian men to white men. (Remember the angry Asian men blog?)

    Whites gain and lose on either end, so it's a wash.

    Sailer said as much in an earlier posting.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    I’m going to challenge that. You’re conflating being a loudmouthed lunkhead with being masculine. Also, intelligence is left out of your equation so therefore the dumber a person is the more masculine they are so the really really stupid are hyper-masculine. Not in my world.

  83. @Twinkie
    @SFG


    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.
     
    And yet, if we could use the Olympic sports prowess as a proxy for masculinity, whites and Asians seem to do just fine:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics_medal_table

    Just because black and Hispanic thugs like to assault law-abiding whites and Asians in urban areas does not make them more "masculine." War-making is just about the most masculine thing there is, and white and Asian men do it far better than black and Hispanic men do.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Twinkie, women are just not that interested in Asian men. Including Asian women, when they have the choice. No Olympic medal table can change that simple fact.

    • Replies: @Scotty G. Vito
    @Anonymous

    Your high confidence level for Internet bloviation notwithstanding, that conclusion is based less on biological inputs than a social distribution effect which you merely reify into a Way Of The World. The fact is women don't go for low-status geeks, slobs, nerds, the guys who sit in their underwear playing World of Warcraft or debating the HBD hot talk. Though E. Asian men are shorter than males elsewhere (and the further south, the lower average height) the first-order handicaps on their effective mating value according to revealed preference of "women" include overbearing mothers, bad dentistry, poor eyesight, dissocialization due to reading manga with butt-kicking babes characters, and atrophied ability to entertain the simple-minded average suburban chick with "game" which skill obviously isn't g-loaded but might be constrained by genetic behavioral hindrance; the counter example is black men, many of whom are not tall and not in remotely disciplined shape (also, lacking muscle definition and respiratory capacity) but in possession of behavioral traits which are then socially amplified for mating optimum with the attention-famished spoiled late-capitalist aspiring-Carrie-Bradshaw -- worst of all, who now has her own job so she can subsidize the unemployed brother for at least a bit.

    , @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Twinkie, women are just not that interested in Asian men. Including Asian women, when they have the choice. No Olympic medal table can change that simple fact.
     
    And yet, shockingly, Asian men have high rates of marriage in the U.S. and have high rates of intermarriage with white females as well. More than a third of U.S.-raised Korean males, in particular, marry white females.

    Sorry the facts don't jive with your stereotype and an internet myth.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  84. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, women are just not that interested in Asian men. Including Asian women, when they have the choice. No Olympic medal table can change that simple fact.

    Replies: @Scotty G. Vito, @Twinkie

    Your high confidence level for Internet bloviation notwithstanding, that conclusion is based less on biological inputs than a social distribution effect which you merely reify into a Way Of The World. The fact is women don’t go for low-status geeks, slobs, nerds, the guys who sit in their underwear playing World of Warcraft or debating the HBD hot talk. Though E. Asian men are shorter than males elsewhere (and the further south, the lower average height) the first-order handicaps on their effective mating value according to revealed preference of “women” include overbearing mothers, bad dentistry, poor eyesight, dissocialization due to reading manga with butt-kicking babes characters, and atrophied ability to entertain the simple-minded average suburban chick with “game” which skill obviously isn’t g-loaded but might be constrained by genetic behavioral hindrance; the counter example is black men, many of whom are not tall and not in remotely disciplined shape (also, lacking muscle definition and respiratory capacity) but in possession of behavioral traits which are then socially amplified for mating optimum with the attention-famished spoiled late-capitalist aspiring-Carrie-Bradshaw — worst of all, who now has her own job so she can subsidize the unemployed brother for at least a bit.

  85. @leper messiah
    @countenance

    Black women really do have a white man fetish; mainly they think we’re all hooked into some mythical white privilege system, so when a WM shows interest in a BF, that’s supposed to be some sort of Eye of Sauron

    Not sure this is the case. I tend to agree with what Chris Rock states emphatically in his stand-up routines..."Hey White Guys!...Listen up!...Black women just do NOT find you desirable...know what I'm saying?...not trying to be mean here...just stating the facts!"

    I believe that this in fact true and could not give a rat's ass since the the feeling is mutual. I'll take any other woman of any race/ethnicity but no black diva for me - no matter how hot.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You’re undoubedly right, in both directions. When I was 33 and playing a lot of tennis, a black woman in Berkeley in her early 20s said to me, “you have the best legs I’ve ever seen.” I couldn’t have cared less.

  86. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, women are just not that interested in Asian men. Including Asian women, when they have the choice. No Olympic medal table can change that simple fact.

    Replies: @Scotty G. Vito, @Twinkie

    Twinkie, women are just not that interested in Asian men. Including Asian women, when they have the choice. No Olympic medal table can change that simple fact.

    And yet, shockingly, Asian men have high rates of marriage in the U.S. and have high rates of intermarriage with white females as well. More than a third of U.S.-raised Korean males, in particular, marry white females.

    Sorry the facts don’t jive with your stereotype and an internet myth.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Hey, don't tell that to me, tell it to Angry Asian Man.

    As members of a relatively small, wealthy and well-adjusted minority, it's no surprise Asians of both sexes have high intermarriage rates. The real story is the gap between Asian female intermarriage rates and Asian male ones. But you're not stupid, you know that.

    Asian men who are all about embracing HBD except when it comes to objectively looking at their own kind are pathetic.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  87. I wonder how they manage to keep doing this. You’d think that with Nielsen ratings that eventually this scam would just stop by itself. Why any industry that relies on ads as its major financing vehicle would purposefully go after demographics most famous for poverty is one of those Great Unsolved Mysteries.
    Fox is just tooting its own horn that the ratings of their new black soap opera are getting double digit ratings similar to reruns of Gilligan’s Island on TBS in the 1980s. Even though the audiences are drying up, these media moguls of Dinosaur Death are trying anything to get anyone to believe that TV is not finished and still a Teenage Wasteland but still their fortunes go to die.
    What idiot wants blacks to see his ads? People who don’t mind losing money to shoplifting? People who are contemplating the insurance they can get if their business is burned down? Anyplace that blacks go or get together turns into abandoned real estate. Cities desperately want them to move away so they can have a tax base again. Why anyone would market to minorities is a mystery to me.

  88. @SFG
    @AnotherDad

    You can see it in this Key and Peele skit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg58d8opQKA

    From most masculine to feminine, it goes: black > Hispanic > white > Asian.

    So black women lose out to white women, and Asian men to white men. (Remember the angry Asian men blog?)

    Whites gain and lose on either end, so it's a wash.

    Sailer said as much in an earlier posting.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    Least masculine are Indian/Pakistani.

    They’re also the least desired.

    See Okcupid:

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Least masculine are Indian/Pakistani.
     
    Using the Olympic medal count as a proxy they are not very athletic. But that's not necessarily universal among Indians. See: http://www.odditycentral.com/news/the-indian-strongman-village-where-all-the-men-train-to-become-bouncers.html.

    They’re also the least desired.

    See Okcupid: http://i.imgur.com/4MocK2K.png
     
    I would caution you against using Okcupid and generalizing it for the population at large. There is a large selection bias with Okcupid.

    For a more thorough academic data based on Census information, see: http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Asian Indian men raised in the U.S. intermarry white women at about 25.6%. That's not quite the 34.6% rate of Koreans, but it's higher than the rate for the Vietnamese men (21.9%) and slightly higher than (essentially identical with) Japanese men (25.1%).
  89. @JohnnyWalker123
    @SFG

    Least masculine are Indian/Pakistani.

    They're also the least desired.

    See Okcupid: http://i.imgur.com/4MocK2K.png

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Least masculine are Indian/Pakistani.

    Using the Olympic medal count as a proxy they are not very athletic. But that’s not necessarily universal among Indians. See: http://www.odditycentral.com/news/the-indian-strongman-village-where-all-the-men-train-to-become-bouncers.html.

    They’re also the least desired.

    See Okcupid: http://i.imgur.com/4MocK2K.png

    I would caution you against using Okcupid and generalizing it for the population at large. There is a large selection bias with Okcupid.

    For a more thorough academic data based on Census information, see: http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Asian Indian men raised in the U.S. intermarry white women at about 25.6%. That’s not quite the 34.6% rate of Koreans, but it’s higher than the rate for the Vietnamese men (21.9%) and slightly higher than (essentially identical with) Japanese men (25.1%).

  90. 1. I think Olympic medals are a fair enough proxy for athleticism.

    Of course there are studies too that show South Asians have lower lean mass and more fat mass than other races. They’re even lower lean mass than Chinese according to this study, but significantly fatter.

    http://aut.researchgateway.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10292/385/WenJ.pdf?sequence=4

    2. Here’s another study showing Indian men are the least desired demographic in dating:

    3. Also, your linked study showed the following intermarriage rate (with white females) for the males of these selected Asian-American ethnic groups:

    http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Indian: 13.3
    Chinese: 19.2
    Japanese: 22.8
    Korean: 23.1
    Filipino: 24.0
    Vietnamese: 13.1

    4. South Asian men have the second lowest intermarriage rate in Canada too (Koreans are the lowest).

    5. Here’s a study showing that South Asian men (Indian and Pakistanis) have by far the lowest chlamydia rates of all races in the UK. Based on that, we could assume they have the fewest sexual partners of all races, as chlamydia rates correlate with number of partners. I’d speculate they have the fewest partners because they’re the least desirable.

    While engaging safe sex practices does lower the probability of chlamydia transmission, the evidence seems to indicate that whites and South Asians (in the UK) observe safe sex practices at comparable rates. I base that on several studies, including a study that found that white UK women and South Asian UK women had equal lifetime probabilities of ever having had an abortion. Since abortion rates are a proxy rate for unwanted pregnancies, they can serve as reasonable proxy for safe sex practices. We can assume, therefore, that there’s no difference between South Asians and whites in safe sex practices. So differences in chlamydia contraction likely reflect South Asian UK men having fewer partners than white UK men.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    1. I think Olympic medals are a fair enough proxy for athleticism.
     
    I think so. But you should look at it per capita.

    Did you look at Koreans at the last Summer Olympics? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

    No. 5 in the world with only 50 million people (and most medals from "combat" sports).

    Per capita, Great Britain and South Korea are athletic powerhouses.

    3. Also, your linked study showed the following intermarriage rate (with white females) for the males of these selected Asian-American ethnic groups:

    http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Indian: 13.3
    Chinese: 19.2
    Japanese: 22.8
    Korean: 23.1
    Filipino: 24.0
    Vietnamese: 13.1
     
    Those are USR + USR or FR figures, so they do not take into full acculturation. Look at the USR + USR for the acculturated figures, which are:

    Indian: 25.6
    Chinese: 26.5
    Filipinos: 31.8
    Japanese: 25.1
    Korean: 34.6
    Vietnamese: 21.9

    Those are pretty high intermarriage rates with white females for Koreans and Filipinos. Unsurprisingly, those groups in the U.S. are highly Christian and have high rates of military service.

    So differences in chlamydia contraction likely reflect South Asian UK men having fewer partners than white UK men.
     
    STD rate is a useful proxy, to be sure, but I'd caution you against generalization because it is highly selective. STD infected are a small minority of the general population that may not reflect the sexual practices of the majority of the people. In other words, the sampling accuracy based on STD infected is highly questionable to say the least.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  91. @JohnnyWalker123
    1. I think Olympic medals are a fair enough proxy for athleticism.

    Of course there are studies too that show South Asians have lower lean mass and more fat mass than other races. They're even lower lean mass than Chinese according to this study, but significantly fatter.

    http://aut.researchgateway.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10292/385/WenJ.pdf?sequence=4

    2. Here's another study showing Indian men are the least desired demographic in dating:

    http://i.imgur.com/u3l3Wxh.png

    3. Also, your linked study showed the following intermarriage rate (with white females) for the males of these selected Asian-American ethnic groups:

    http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Indian: 13.3
    Chinese: 19.2
    Japanese: 22.8
    Korean: 23.1
    Filipino: 24.0
    Vietnamese: 13.1

    4. South Asian men have the second lowest intermarriage rate in Canada too (Koreans are the lowest).

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010001/c-g/11143/c-g001-eng.gif

    5. Here's a study showing that South Asian men (Indian and Pakistanis) have by far the lowest chlamydia rates of all races in the UK. Based on that, we could assume they have the fewest sexual partners of all races, as chlamydia rates correlate with number of partners. I'd speculate they have the fewest partners because they're the least desirable.

    http://oi60.tinypic.com/256zj2w.jpg

    While engaging safe sex practices does lower the probability of chlamydia transmission, the evidence seems to indicate that whites and South Asians (in the UK) observe safe sex practices at comparable rates. I base that on several studies, including a study that found that white UK women and South Asian UK women had equal lifetime probabilities of ever having had an abortion. Since abortion rates are a proxy rate for unwanted pregnancies, they can serve as reasonable proxy for safe sex practices. We can assume, therefore, that there's no difference between South Asians and whites in safe sex practices. So differences in chlamydia contraction likely reflect South Asian UK men having fewer partners than white UK men.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    1. I think Olympic medals are a fair enough proxy for athleticism.

    I think so. But you should look at it per capita.

    Did you look at Koreans at the last Summer Olympics? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

    No. 5 in the world with only 50 million people (and most medals from “combat” sports).

    Per capita, Great Britain and South Korea are athletic powerhouses.

    3. Also, your linked study showed the following intermarriage rate (with white females) for the males of these selected Asian-American ethnic groups:

    http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Indian: 13.3
    Chinese: 19.2
    Japanese: 22.8
    Korean: 23.1
    Filipino: 24.0
    Vietnamese: 13.1

    Those are USR + USR or FR figures, so they do not take into full acculturation. Look at the USR + USR for the acculturated figures, which are:

    Indian: 25.6
    Chinese: 26.5
    Filipinos: 31.8
    Japanese: 25.1
    Korean: 34.6
    Vietnamese: 21.9

    Those are pretty high intermarriage rates with white females for Koreans and Filipinos. Unsurprisingly, those groups in the U.S. are highly Christian and have high rates of military service.

    So differences in chlamydia contraction likely reflect South Asian UK men having fewer partners than white UK men.

    STD rate is a useful proxy, to be sure, but I’d caution you against generalization because it is highly selective. STD infected are a small minority of the general population that may not reflect the sexual practices of the majority of the people. In other words, the sampling accuracy based on STD infected is highly questionable to say the least.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie

    Wow. I didn't realize South Korea did that well at the Olympics. SK, Japan, and China are all performing very well. I'm not surprised Koreans do well in combat sports, as they are (in my experience) more pugnacious than other Asians.

    Studies actually show that Asians have a lower body fat percentage than whites, which is useful when competing in quite a few sports. I think where Asians lack is size, but pound-for-pound they perform well. For example, there are quite a few Korean and Japanese boxers and MMA fighters at the lower weight levels.


    Those are USR + USR or FR figures, so they do not take into full acculturation. Look at the USR + USR for the acculturated figures, which are:
     
    The first column is for all spouses (foreign-raised and US-raised).
    The second column is when the subject spouse is US-Raised, but the partner could be US-raised or foreign-raised.
    The third column is when both spouses are US-raised.

    So US-raised Asians who marry foreign-raised aren't included in the third column, but they are included in the second.

    Also, I'd note that many US-raised Japanese-Americans are older people who grew up in 1960s and 1970s, when intermarriage was relatively rare. So comparing them to other US-raised Asians isn't completely fair because non-Japanese US-raised Asians are younger and grew up in a racially more liberal era. It'd be better if the data sets were adjusted for age (so we could compare US-raised Asians from similar eras), but they unfortunately aren't. Approach these Japanese-American numbers with caution.

    So if we want valid data for all US-raised Asians, look at the second column.
    If we want valid data for only US-raised Asians who married US-raised spouses, look at the third column.

    It's a little confusing, based on how they worded everything.

    I'd agree that more acculturated US-raised Asians fit in the third column, but it's useful for us to have data for all US-raised Asians.

    STD rate is a useful proxy, to be sure, but I’d caution you against generalization because it is highly selective. STD infected are a small minority of the general population that may not reflect the sexual practices of the majority of the people. In other words, the sampling accuracy based on STD infected is highly questionable to say the least.
     
    The study actually had a huge sample size. Roughly 330,000. Roughly 4.4% of British youths were sampled, which is huge.

    If you're interested, data on East Asian American men seems to show that they're 0.1-0.2 standard deviations less likely to have chlamydia than White American men. South Asian men in the UK are about 0.5 standard deviations less likely to have chlamydia than White UK men. I've found some data indicating that South Asian men in the US and Canada follow the UK pattern, but the data sets are more limited than in the UK.

    That tends to indicate that when it comes to accruing sexual partners, East Asians are much closer to whites than South Asians. If whites are "beta" and East Asians are "lesser beta", then South Asians would be "omega."

    Replies: @Twinkie

  92. @Alex M
    @Twinkie


    This inconsistency alone ought to tell you that an internet dating site’s preference data suffers from a large selection bias and doesn’t reflect the general real world preferences.
     
    Other studies have confirmed that Asian men are women repellents, particularly white women repellents. Here is a post by Razib Khan discussing one such study which centered around Columbia University grad students.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Asian men are women repellents, particularly white women repellents

    I know you desperately want to believe that, but the generalized data do not support the contention. Step onto any Ivy League university campus today and you will see quite a few Asian male-white female couples. Or for that matter step into any mega church in an area with a decent size Asian population. You will see that Asian male-white females couples are a dime a dozen. (The appeared pretty rare to me 20+ years ago when I married my wife, but now they are so common in many areas that I stopped being surprised to see another couple like my wife and me.)

    On the other hand, Mexican male-white female couples on such campuses… not so many. But that’s largely a function of the scarcity of Mexican males at Ivy League universities as well as their relative segregation.

    By the way, you might pay attention to Razib Khan’s numbers, especially this part:

    First, let’s keep this in perspective, here are the correlations from the GSS for married individuals for several variables of note (I’ve filtered for whites here):
    Ethnicity – 0.40
    Highest Degree – 0.55
    Socioeconomic index – 0.32
    I think it’s interesting to note that the variable which reveals meritocratic achievement has the highest correlation. Ethnicity is something you’re born into, and socioeconomic index is a metric which derives from the milieu in which you were raised.

    Do you understand what that means?

    • Replies: @Alex M
    @Twinkie


    By the way, you might pay attention to Razib Khan’s numbers, especially this part:
     
    Perhaps you should take your own advice, note that those numbers don't control for sex. This is especially important because as Razib points out at the top of the post,

    To be crass about it, an attractive warm body will do for a man, but women strongly prefer a body with the packaging of their own race!
     
    Given this fact, it is undoubtedly the case that if we isolate for married white women only, the ethnicity correlation will greatly increase!

    Also, read Razib's following words very carefully,

    Ethnicity is something you’re born into, and socioeconomic index is a metric which derives from the milieu in which you were raised.
     
    milieu? Shouldn't a fanatical adherent to the genetic determinism dogma such as your self be tearing his hair out? Or are you now a big believer in "environmental factors". HAHAHA!

    but the generalized data do not support the contention.
     
    Actually yep, yep, the data does support that contention.

    You will see that Asian male-white females couples are a dime a dozen.
     
    HAHAHA! What's a dime a dozen are all the Asian men crying on the internet about how they can't get women. They're even willing to pay thousands of dollars just to be able to learn how to talk to a girl. HAHAHA!
    https://youtu.be/W1ZRcYGVp4k

    Replies: @Twinkie

  93. @Twinkie
    @iSteveFan


    We used to maintain a string of Army forts along the border. It wouldn’t take much, and it would be a fantastic training opportunity to reemploy such a policy.
     
    I believe it was Lycurgus the Lawgiver of Sparta who allegedly said that a rampart of men is better than that of stone... which I suppose is the reason Sparta never had a wall (but did have the finest hoplites in Greece).

    Forts and walls on the southern border are nice and all, but what is really necessary is the will to guard it. Even without a physical obstacle, if there were a political will to protect the border, an effective measure could be put to effect tomorrow.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I believe it was Lycurgus the Lawgiver of Sparta who allegedly said that a rampart of men is better than that of stone… which I suppose is the reason Sparta never had a wall (but did have the finest hoplites in Greece).

    Until Epaminondas showed up.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    Until Epaminondas showed up.
     
    Touche. Of course, it wasn't just the defeat at Leuctra that led to the Spartan decline (recall that there were only a few hundred peers at Leuctra). Sparta's problem was demographic - specifically the dramatic decline of the number of peers due to low fertility and constant wars.

    Ok, so, maybe a lesson is that a rampart of men is not good for high fertility.
  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Twinkie, women are just not that interested in Asian men. Including Asian women, when they have the choice. No Olympic medal table can change that simple fact.
     
    And yet, shockingly, Asian men have high rates of marriage in the U.S. and have high rates of intermarriage with white females as well. More than a third of U.S.-raised Korean males, in particular, marry white females.

    Sorry the facts don't jive with your stereotype and an internet myth.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Hey, don’t tell that to me, tell it to Angry Asian Man.

    As members of a relatively small, wealthy and well-adjusted minority, it’s no surprise Asians of both sexes have high intermarriage rates. The real story is the gap between Asian female intermarriage rates and Asian male ones. But you’re not stupid, you know that.

    Asian men who are all about embracing HBD except when it comes to objectively looking at their own kind are pathetic.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Hey, don’t tell that to me, tell it to Angry Asian Man.
     
    I don't know who that is. Is he some sort of a sociologist who studies this issue or, judging from the title, some loser writing from mom's basement who blames everything on whitey?

    As members of a relatively small, wealthy and well-adjusted minority, it’s no surprise Asians of both sexes have high intermarriage rates. The real story is the gap between Asian female intermarriage rates and Asian male ones. But you’re not stupid, you know that.
     
    You would also note the following important facts:

    1. Intermarriage rates with whites vary considerably among different ethnic groups within the larger (and generally less useful) "Asian" category. For example, USR + USR Vietnamese males intermarry white females at 21.9% while Korean males at 34.6%.

    2. Intermarriage rates vary considerably based on acculturation status, meaning U.S.-born or -raised Asian males are far more likely to intermarry. For example, "all spouses" Korean males intermarry white females at only 5.3% but USR + USR Korean males at 34.6%. That's over six fold (!) increase in the intermarriage rates based on acculturation (actually more than six fold since the first is inclusive of the third category), which should tell you that much of the "handicap" Asian men have is largely based on social status/assimilation.

    3. The male-female gap does persist, but it *shrinks* dramatically as acculturation increases. For example, "all spouses" Vietnamese females intermarry white males at 9.4%, but the number for USR + USR is 41.3, roughly 4.4X. The same category numbers for Vietnamese males are 2.8% and 21.9%, over 7.8X. In other words, much of the gap is a function of the fact that immigrant females are accessible to the native males, but the reverse is not true. And it starts to disappear as immigrant males and their sons benefit from acculturation and rising social status.

    Asian men who are all about embracing HBD except when it comes to objectively looking at their own kind are pathetic.
     
    I think pathetic people are those who don't look at the data carefully and draw scientific conclusions because they have insecurities.

    Look here. I am 6' 2". I have been an athlete all my life and have elite educational, economic, and political credentials. I married an extremely desirable woman from a prestigious family who has given me many children during our 20+ years of marriage. My children are virtuous, intelligent, and beautiful (my oldest son is an absolute babe magnet - he looks a lot like the UFC fighter Alan Jouban, except my boy has lighter hair and a bit less "cut" look: https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/SwFiNLiAGDJS9nFy50cYsA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYwMA--/https://s.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-08-14/82ae25b0-2359-11e4-9867-f5a977a7340e_jouban2.jpg) .

    Frankly, it matters nothing to me personally whether Asian immigrant males intermarry at high rates or low rates (although I do think that high intermarriage rates of immigrants in general is a good thing for the citizenist cause and our society in general PROVIDED the number of immigrants is very low). But the data are what they are, and we ought to draw accurate conclusions from them, not some juvenile and frankly stupid conclusions like "blacks > Hispanics > whites > Asians" or "Asian males are repellent to women."

    Replies: @Anonymous

  95. @Twinkie
    @Alex M


    Asian men are women repellents, particularly white women repellents
     
    I know you desperately want to believe that, but the generalized data do not support the contention. Step onto any Ivy League university campus today and you will see quite a few Asian male-white female couples. Or for that matter step into any mega church in an area with a decent size Asian population. You will see that Asian male-white females couples are a dime a dozen. (The appeared pretty rare to me 20+ years ago when I married my wife, but now they are so common in many areas that I stopped being surprised to see another couple like my wife and me.)

    On the other hand, Mexican male-white female couples on such campuses... not so many. But that's largely a function of the scarcity of Mexican males at Ivy League universities as well as their relative segregation.

    By the way, you might pay attention to Razib Khan's numbers, especially this part:

    First, let’s keep this in perspective, here are the correlations from the GSS for married individuals for several variables of note (I’ve filtered for whites here):
    Ethnicity – 0.40
    Highest Degree – 0.55
    Socioeconomic index – 0.32
    I think it’s interesting to note that the variable which reveals meritocratic achievement has the highest correlation. Ethnicity is something you’re born into, and socioeconomic index is a metric which derives from the milieu in which you were raised.
     
    Do you understand what that means?

    Replies: @Alex M

    By the way, you might pay attention to Razib Khan’s numbers, especially this part:

    Perhaps you should take your own advice, note that those numbers don’t control for sex. This is especially important because as Razib points out at the top of the post,

    To be crass about it, an attractive warm body will do for a man, but women strongly prefer a body with the packaging of their own race!

    Given this fact, it is undoubtedly the case that if we isolate for married white women only, the ethnicity correlation will greatly increase!

    Also, read Razib’s following words very carefully,

    Ethnicity is something you’re born into, and socioeconomic index is a metric which derives from the milieu in which you were raised.

    milieu? Shouldn’t a fanatical adherent to the genetic determinism dogma such as your self be tearing his hair out? Or are you now a big believer in “environmental factors”. HAHAHA!

    but the generalized data do not support the contention.

    Actually yep, yep, the data does support that contention.

    You will see that Asian male-white females couples are a dime a dozen.

    HAHAHA! What’s a dime a dozen are all the Asian men crying on the internet about how they can’t get women. They’re even willing to pay thousands of dollars just to be able to learn how to talk to a girl. HAHAHA!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Alex M


    Given this fact, it is undoubtedly the case that if we isolate for married white women only, the ethnicity correlation will greatly increase!
     
    You clearly know little about women.

    Most Asian and white women marry men with similar or *higher* educational credentials than they have while men tend to care A LOT less about "the highest degree attained" among their female partners. If you were to separate the sexes, the power of the ethnicity coefficient may well increase, but so will factors that relate to the male educational, social, and economic status.

    Shouldn’t a fanatical adherent to the genetic determinism dogma such as your self be tearing his hair out? Or are you now a big believer in “environmental factors”.
     
    I believe I mentioned numerous times in this blog that among the intelligent, the debate is between environmentarians who attribute everything to nurture and hereditarians who attribute causation to both nature *and* nurture. I am a hereditarian in general, but not a reductionist, so your straw man ("genetic determinism dogma") is, as usual, highly inaccurate. I also mentioned more than once that, in absence of other data, I subscribe to Mr. Sailer's 50/50 rule.

    What’s a dime a dozen are all the Asian men crying on the internet about how they can’t get women. They’re even willing to pay thousands of dollars just to be able to learn how to talk to a girl.
     
    1. Rich people's problem. Maybe losers among Mexicans would do it too if they had the money. Or were as internet-savvy.

    2. How do you explain that Asian men in America have the highest marriage rates?

    3. How do you explain that tall, Christian, and acculturated Asian males (such as USR Koreans) intermarry white women at such high rates (34.6%)? Over a third is a very high rate of intermarriage.

    Replies: @Alex M

  96. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    1. I think Olympic medals are a fair enough proxy for athleticism.
     
    I think so. But you should look at it per capita.

    Did you look at Koreans at the last Summer Olympics? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

    No. 5 in the world with only 50 million people (and most medals from "combat" sports).

    Per capita, Great Britain and South Korea are athletic powerhouses.

    3. Also, your linked study showed the following intermarriage rate (with white females) for the males of these selected Asian-American ethnic groups:

    http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Indian: 13.3
    Chinese: 19.2
    Japanese: 22.8
    Korean: 23.1
    Filipino: 24.0
    Vietnamese: 13.1
     
    Those are USR + USR or FR figures, so they do not take into full acculturation. Look at the USR + USR for the acculturated figures, which are:

    Indian: 25.6
    Chinese: 26.5
    Filipinos: 31.8
    Japanese: 25.1
    Korean: 34.6
    Vietnamese: 21.9

    Those are pretty high intermarriage rates with white females for Koreans and Filipinos. Unsurprisingly, those groups in the U.S. are highly Christian and have high rates of military service.

    So differences in chlamydia contraction likely reflect South Asian UK men having fewer partners than white UK men.
     
    STD rate is a useful proxy, to be sure, but I'd caution you against generalization because it is highly selective. STD infected are a small minority of the general population that may not reflect the sexual practices of the majority of the people. In other words, the sampling accuracy based on STD infected is highly questionable to say the least.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Wow. I didn’t realize South Korea did that well at the Olympics. SK, Japan, and China are all performing very well. I’m not surprised Koreans do well in combat sports, as they are (in my experience) more pugnacious than other Asians.

    Studies actually show that Asians have a lower body fat percentage than whites, which is useful when competing in quite a few sports. I think where Asians lack is size, but pound-for-pound they perform well. For example, there are quite a few Korean and Japanese boxers and MMA fighters at the lower weight levels.

    Those are USR + USR or FR figures, so they do not take into full acculturation. Look at the USR + USR for the acculturated figures, which are:

    The first column is for all spouses (foreign-raised and US-raised).
    The second column is when the subject spouse is US-Raised, but the partner could be US-raised or foreign-raised.
    The third column is when both spouses are US-raised.

    So US-raised Asians who marry foreign-raised aren’t included in the third column, but they are included in the second.

    Also, I’d note that many US-raised Japanese-Americans are older people who grew up in 1960s and 1970s, when intermarriage was relatively rare. So comparing them to other US-raised Asians isn’t completely fair because non-Japanese US-raised Asians are younger and grew up in a racially more liberal era. It’d be better if the data sets were adjusted for age (so we could compare US-raised Asians from similar eras), but they unfortunately aren’t. Approach these Japanese-American numbers with caution.

    So if we want valid data for all US-raised Asians, look at the second column.
    If we want valid data for only US-raised Asians who married US-raised spouses, look at the third column.

    It’s a little confusing, based on how they worded everything.

    I’d agree that more acculturated US-raised Asians fit in the third column, but it’s useful for us to have data for all US-raised Asians.

    STD rate is a useful proxy, to be sure, but I’d caution you against generalization because it is highly selective. STD infected are a small minority of the general population that may not reflect the sexual practices of the majority of the people. In other words, the sampling accuracy based on STD infected is highly questionable to say the least.

    The study actually had a huge sample size. Roughly 330,000. Roughly 4.4% of British youths were sampled, which is huge.

    If you’re interested, data on East Asian American men seems to show that they’re 0.1-0.2 standard deviations less likely to have chlamydia than White American men. South Asian men in the UK are about 0.5 standard deviations less likely to have chlamydia than White UK men. I’ve found some data indicating that South Asian men in the US and Canada follow the UK pattern, but the data sets are more limited than in the UK.

    That tends to indicate that when it comes to accruing sexual partners, East Asians are much closer to whites than South Asians. If whites are “beta” and East Asians are “lesser beta”, then South Asians would be “omega.”

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Wow. I didn’t realize South Korea did that well at the Olympics. SK, Japan, and China are all performing very well. I’m not surprised Koreans do well in combat sports, as they are (in my experience) more pugnacious than other Asians.
     
    You might also be surprised that there have been two Korean male Marathon winners (as well as a few other lesser medalists and winners of non-Olympic Marathons). So apparently they give African highlanders a run for their money once in a while. Koreans also benefit athletically from the fact that their men have the highest average height in Asia. At 5' 8 1/2" it is pretty close to the American average of 5' 9" and not too far from the American white average of 5' 10".

    I suspect that their relatively high average height also explain high intermarriage rates with white females in the U.S. (height is a HUGE factor in female selection of male partners) along with their incredibly high rate of Protestantism (Koreans in the U.S are 61% Protestant and 10% Catholic - a whopping 71% of Koreans in America are Christians).

    Studies actually show that Asians have a lower body fat percentage than whites, which is useful when competing in quite a few sports.
     
    On average, East Asians have faster reaction times than other ethnic groups. So they tend to excel in sports in which that factor is important (such as ping pong, badminton, fencing, and combat sports). If you know anything about, say, Shotokan Karate, for example, you know that it's pretty much a game of reaction time (along with timing/distancing).

    I think where Asians lack is size, but pound-for-pound they perform well. For example, there are quite a few Korean and Japanese boxers and MMA fighters at the lower weight levels.
     
    My father put me in boxing and Judo since I was a toddler, and I grew up training with Olympic athletes in both (and I was later the main training partner for an Olympic medalist in Judo in college). The first time I stepped into a boxing gym in the U.S., I got a lot of skeptical looks, because of the "chinks don't play sports" myth, especially among blacks. I must admit it was extremely satisfying to knock down repeatedly the first several sparring partners who took me for granted. They all had that "WTF" looks when I smoothly cut angles on them and punched their jaws from their sides.

    It’s a little confusing, based on how they worded everything.
     
    Here is the authors' own explanation:

    In analyzing intermarriage rates, many scholars argue that it is more accurate to focus on this portion of the Asian American population rather than on all Asian Americans because these Asians who were raised in the U.S. constitute the group that is most "at risk" in the statistical sense. That is, having grown up in the U.S., they are immersed in American culture and interracial dynamic, much more so than immigrants who were already married when they came to the U.S.

    The results show that, compared to the "All Spouses" or "USR + USR or FR" models, the "USR +USR Only" model show that the U.S.-raised are much more likely to outmarry with either Whites or an Other Asian American (pan-Asian).
     
    As for the Japanese...

    Also, I’d note that many US-raised Japanese-Americans are older people who grew up in 1960s and 1970s, when intermarriage was relatively rare. So comparing them to other US-raised Asians isn’t completely fair because non-Japanese US-raised Asians are younger and grew up in a racially more liberal era.
     
    That is an excellent point. I did think that the intermarriage rates of Japanese were a bit odd since most multi-generational Japanese-Americans I have known are only partially Japanese (meaning, very high intermarriage rates).

    An interesting oddity of that data is that with Japanese females the intermarriage rates to whites *declines* as acculturation increases! Their numbers are 38.1% (all spouses), 29.4% (USR + USR or FR), and 29.9% (USR + USR). So their male-female gap at the USR + USR segment is less than 5 percentage points.

    The study actually had a huge sample size.
     
    Yes, true enough. But sampling size alone doesn't address the efficacy of the sampling itself (think about sampling ALL blacks in America, a huge number, and extrapolating that to "Americans at large" - that will lead to all kinds of inaccurate conclusions). In other words, if there is a strong polarization in data between the hypergamous minority and the monogamous majority, trends in the behaviors of the former is not likely to represent those of the latter accurately. I am not saying the STD proxy is useless, only that we should recognize the sampling biases and be cautious about generalizing to the populations at large, a majority of which may display very different sexual behaviors and preferences as compared to the "unusual" minority. This is where median vs. mean comes in handy.

    If whites are “beta” and East Asians are “lesser beta”, then South Asians would be “omega.”
     
    I don't get this obsession with "alpha" or "beta" terms. When I was growing up two-three decades ago, the main division among young men was jocks vs. nerds. I happened to have been both, so I had friends who were athletes, friends who were studious, and friends who were, as I was, both.

    I am just baffled by all this "gaming women" and "alpha" vs. "beta" talk about which younger guys seem to obsess today. I've led men in combat, and I was always taught that if one wanted to be a leader one had to learn to obey first. So all this pursuit of "alpha-ness" strikes me as posturing of the insecure.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  97. @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    I believe it was Lycurgus the Lawgiver of Sparta who allegedly said that a rampart of men is better than that of stone… which I suppose is the reason Sparta never had a wall (but did have the finest hoplites in Greece).

     

    Until Epaminondas showed up.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Until Epaminondas showed up.

    Touche. Of course, it wasn’t just the defeat at Leuctra that led to the Spartan decline (recall that there were only a few hundred peers at Leuctra). Sparta’s problem was demographic – specifically the dramatic decline of the number of peers due to low fertility and constant wars.

    Ok, so, maybe a lesson is that a rampart of men is not good for high fertility.

  98. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Hey, don't tell that to me, tell it to Angry Asian Man.

    As members of a relatively small, wealthy and well-adjusted minority, it's no surprise Asians of both sexes have high intermarriage rates. The real story is the gap between Asian female intermarriage rates and Asian male ones. But you're not stupid, you know that.

    Asian men who are all about embracing HBD except when it comes to objectively looking at their own kind are pathetic.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Hey, don’t tell that to me, tell it to Angry Asian Man.

    I don’t know who that is. Is he some sort of a sociologist who studies this issue or, judging from the title, some loser writing from mom’s basement who blames everything on whitey?

    As members of a relatively small, wealthy and well-adjusted minority, it’s no surprise Asians of both sexes have high intermarriage rates. The real story is the gap between Asian female intermarriage rates and Asian male ones. But you’re not stupid, you know that.

    You would also note the following important facts:

    1. Intermarriage rates with whites vary considerably among different ethnic groups within the larger (and generally less useful) “Asian” category. For example, USR + USR Vietnamese males intermarry white females at 21.9% while Korean males at 34.6%.

    2. Intermarriage rates vary considerably based on acculturation status, meaning U.S.-born or -raised Asian males are far more likely to intermarry. For example, “all spouses” Korean males intermarry white females at only 5.3% but USR + USR Korean males at 34.6%. That’s over six fold (!) increase in the intermarriage rates based on acculturation (actually more than six fold since the first is inclusive of the third category), which should tell you that much of the “handicap” Asian men have is largely based on social status/assimilation.

    3. The male-female gap does persist, but it *shrinks* dramatically as acculturation increases. For example, “all spouses” Vietnamese females intermarry white males at 9.4%, but the number for USR + USR is 41.3, roughly 4.4X. The same category numbers for Vietnamese males are 2.8% and 21.9%, over 7.8X. In other words, much of the gap is a function of the fact that immigrant females are accessible to the native males, but the reverse is not true. And it starts to disappear as immigrant males and their sons benefit from acculturation and rising social status.

    Asian men who are all about embracing HBD except when it comes to objectively looking at their own kind are pathetic.

    I think pathetic people are those who don’t look at the data carefully and draw scientific conclusions because they have insecurities.

    Look here. I am 6′ 2″. I have been an athlete all my life and have elite educational, economic, and political credentials. I married an extremely desirable woman from a prestigious family who has given me many children during our 20+ years of marriage. My children are virtuous, intelligent, and beautiful (my oldest son is an absolute babe magnet – he looks a lot like the UFC fighter Alan Jouban, except my boy has lighter hair and a bit less “cut” look: https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/SwFiNLiAGDJS9nFy50cYsA–/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYwMA–/https://s.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-08-14/82ae25b0-2359-11e4-9867-f5a977a7340e_jouban2.jpg) .

    Frankly, it matters nothing to me personally whether Asian immigrant males intermarry at high rates or low rates (although I do think that high intermarriage rates of immigrants in general is a good thing for the citizenist cause and our society in general PROVIDED the number of immigrants is very low). But the data are what they are, and we ought to draw accurate conclusions from them, not some juvenile and frankly stupid conclusions like “blacks > Hispanics > whites > Asians” or “Asian males are repellent to women.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    The stats are all out there, for those who don't believe their lying eyes in everyday life and want to see it on paper . If not looking at them objectively helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out. And keep telling yourself people only believe Asian men are not very desirable out of "insecurity" or "desperately wanting to believe it". Even if all East Asian men overnight became total ladykillers there'd still be too few of them to pose a real threat to white men in more than a few locations. The mean white folks are not all that invested, Twinkie. Seems like you're projecting.

    And while I guess it's nice that you're proud of your kid, why bring it up here? Step back for a moment and you might realize that bragging online about your kid being hot is exactly the kind of thing an insecure Asian man would do. Nobody here cares what your kid looks like, Twinkie.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  99. @Alex M
    @Twinkie


    By the way, you might pay attention to Razib Khan’s numbers, especially this part:
     
    Perhaps you should take your own advice, note that those numbers don't control for sex. This is especially important because as Razib points out at the top of the post,

    To be crass about it, an attractive warm body will do for a man, but women strongly prefer a body with the packaging of their own race!
     
    Given this fact, it is undoubtedly the case that if we isolate for married white women only, the ethnicity correlation will greatly increase!

    Also, read Razib's following words very carefully,

    Ethnicity is something you’re born into, and socioeconomic index is a metric which derives from the milieu in which you were raised.
     
    milieu? Shouldn't a fanatical adherent to the genetic determinism dogma such as your self be tearing his hair out? Or are you now a big believer in "environmental factors". HAHAHA!

    but the generalized data do not support the contention.
     
    Actually yep, yep, the data does support that contention.

    You will see that Asian male-white females couples are a dime a dozen.
     
    HAHAHA! What's a dime a dozen are all the Asian men crying on the internet about how they can't get women. They're even willing to pay thousands of dollars just to be able to learn how to talk to a girl. HAHAHA!
    https://youtu.be/W1ZRcYGVp4k

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Given this fact, it is undoubtedly the case that if we isolate for married white women only, the ethnicity correlation will greatly increase!

    You clearly know little about women.

    Most Asian and white women marry men with similar or *higher* educational credentials than they have while men tend to care A LOT less about “the highest degree attained” among their female partners. If you were to separate the sexes, the power of the ethnicity coefficient may well increase, but so will factors that relate to the male educational, social, and economic status.

    Shouldn’t a fanatical adherent to the genetic determinism dogma such as your self be tearing his hair out? Or are you now a big believer in “environmental factors”.

    I believe I mentioned numerous times in this blog that among the intelligent, the debate is between environmentarians who attribute everything to nurture and hereditarians who attribute causation to both nature *and* nurture. I am a hereditarian in general, but not a reductionist, so your straw man (“genetic determinism dogma”) is, as usual, highly inaccurate. I also mentioned more than once that, in absence of other data, I subscribe to Mr. Sailer’s 50/50 rule.

    What’s a dime a dozen are all the Asian men crying on the internet about how they can’t get women. They’re even willing to pay thousands of dollars just to be able to learn how to talk to a girl.

    1. Rich people’s problem. Maybe losers among Mexicans would do it too if they had the money. Or were as internet-savvy.

    2. How do you explain that Asian men in America have the highest marriage rates?

    3. How do you explain that tall, Christian, and acculturated Asian males (such as USR Koreans) intermarry white women at such high rates (34.6%)? Over a third is a very high rate of intermarriage.

    • Replies: @Alex M
    @Twinkie


    1. Rich people’s problem. Maybe losers among Mexicans would do it too if they had the money. Or were as internet-savvy.
     
    As a matter of fact, Hispanics are incredibly "internet-savvy". It's simply that they don't suffer the dating woes that Asian men do.
    http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/220256/hispanics-lead-stats-in-social-media-usage.html?edition=

    2. How do you explain that Asian men in America have the highest marriage rates?
     
    Simple, first they're a small demographic. Secondly, Asians are of course highly traditional, so they've been slower to the trend of cohabitation, but they're marrying at far lower rates than before.
    http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/09/26/351736134/marriage-rates-are-falling-and-for-some-faster-than-ohters

    The number of nonmarried Asian-Americans over 25 was around 13 percent in 1980; today, it's roughly a fifth of all Asian folks. (It's important to note that 1960 was the high-water mark for American marriages.)
     
    And here's a very interesting fact from the same article,

    Another interesting wrinkle: While the Pew data show that the rate of nonmarried Latinos has doubled over the past 50 years and the rate of unmarried, cohabitating parents has climbed, another new study from Child Trends found that nearly 60 percent of Latino children were being raised by two married parents. Latino kids were also more likely than blacks or whites to eat a meal with their families six or seven days a week, and those meals were likely to be cooked at home.

    Put another way: When we reference the traditional, married, two-parent American family that eats home-cooked meals together in our popular culture, maybe we should start showing them as Latinos.
     
    You also write

    3. How do you explain that tall, Christian, and acculturated Asian males (such as USR Koreans) intermarry white women at such high rates (34.6%)? Over a third is a very high rate of intermarriage.
     
    Well, I've only explained it to you about a hundred times already, but what the heck. First, it's of supreme importance to note that the Korean population only numbers at 1.7 million. To put that into perspective, the total US population numbers at 319 million, so Koreans are only (1/2) of 1% of the total US population! Assuming that Koreans break down 50-50 along the sexes, then Korean men would comprise a whole (1/2)of (1/2 )of 1% of the total US population! And if we control for non-acculturated males.... And Korean women intermarry at a rate 66% higher than Korean men....HAHAHA! Just let that sink in....and then let it sink in some more.... Now tell me again about the "high" intermarriage rates of Korean males.....I suspect that there might be a couple of African pygmies loose somewhere in the United States, and if one of them is married to a white woman, then African pygmies will have a 50% intermmarriage rate with whites and that will prove how much white women desire African pygmies....HAHAHA!

    Replies: @Twinkie

  100. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie

    Wow. I didn't realize South Korea did that well at the Olympics. SK, Japan, and China are all performing very well. I'm not surprised Koreans do well in combat sports, as they are (in my experience) more pugnacious than other Asians.

    Studies actually show that Asians have a lower body fat percentage than whites, which is useful when competing in quite a few sports. I think where Asians lack is size, but pound-for-pound they perform well. For example, there are quite a few Korean and Japanese boxers and MMA fighters at the lower weight levels.


    Those are USR + USR or FR figures, so they do not take into full acculturation. Look at the USR + USR for the acculturated figures, which are:
     
    The first column is for all spouses (foreign-raised and US-raised).
    The second column is when the subject spouse is US-Raised, but the partner could be US-raised or foreign-raised.
    The third column is when both spouses are US-raised.

    So US-raised Asians who marry foreign-raised aren't included in the third column, but they are included in the second.

    Also, I'd note that many US-raised Japanese-Americans are older people who grew up in 1960s and 1970s, when intermarriage was relatively rare. So comparing them to other US-raised Asians isn't completely fair because non-Japanese US-raised Asians are younger and grew up in a racially more liberal era. It'd be better if the data sets were adjusted for age (so we could compare US-raised Asians from similar eras), but they unfortunately aren't. Approach these Japanese-American numbers with caution.

    So if we want valid data for all US-raised Asians, look at the second column.
    If we want valid data for only US-raised Asians who married US-raised spouses, look at the third column.

    It's a little confusing, based on how they worded everything.

    I'd agree that more acculturated US-raised Asians fit in the third column, but it's useful for us to have data for all US-raised Asians.

    STD rate is a useful proxy, to be sure, but I’d caution you against generalization because it is highly selective. STD infected are a small minority of the general population that may not reflect the sexual practices of the majority of the people. In other words, the sampling accuracy based on STD infected is highly questionable to say the least.
     
    The study actually had a huge sample size. Roughly 330,000. Roughly 4.4% of British youths were sampled, which is huge.

    If you're interested, data on East Asian American men seems to show that they're 0.1-0.2 standard deviations less likely to have chlamydia than White American men. South Asian men in the UK are about 0.5 standard deviations less likely to have chlamydia than White UK men. I've found some data indicating that South Asian men in the US and Canada follow the UK pattern, but the data sets are more limited than in the UK.

    That tends to indicate that when it comes to accruing sexual partners, East Asians are much closer to whites than South Asians. If whites are "beta" and East Asians are "lesser beta", then South Asians would be "omega."

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Wow. I didn’t realize South Korea did that well at the Olympics. SK, Japan, and China are all performing very well. I’m not surprised Koreans do well in combat sports, as they are (in my experience) more pugnacious than other Asians.

    You might also be surprised that there have been two Korean male Marathon winners (as well as a few other lesser medalists and winners of non-Olympic Marathons). So apparently they give African highlanders a run for their money once in a while. Koreans also benefit athletically from the fact that their men have the highest average height in Asia. At 5′ 8 1/2″ it is pretty close to the American average of 5′ 9″ and not too far from the American white average of 5′ 10″.

    I suspect that their relatively high average height also explain high intermarriage rates with white females in the U.S. (height is a HUGE factor in female selection of male partners) along with their incredibly high rate of Protestantism (Koreans in the U.S are 61% Protestant and 10% Catholic – a whopping 71% of Koreans in America are Christians).

    Studies actually show that Asians have a lower body fat percentage than whites, which is useful when competing in quite a few sports.

    On average, East Asians have faster reaction times than other ethnic groups. So they tend to excel in sports in which that factor is important (such as ping pong, badminton, fencing, and combat sports). If you know anything about, say, Shotokan Karate, for example, you know that it’s pretty much a game of reaction time (along with timing/distancing).

    I think where Asians lack is size, but pound-for-pound they perform well. For example, there are quite a few Korean and Japanese boxers and MMA fighters at the lower weight levels.

    My father put me in boxing and Judo since I was a toddler, and I grew up training with Olympic athletes in both (and I was later the main training partner for an Olympic medalist in Judo in college). The first time I stepped into a boxing gym in the U.S., I got a lot of skeptical looks, because of the “chinks don’t play sports” myth, especially among blacks. I must admit it was extremely satisfying to knock down repeatedly the first several sparring partners who took me for granted. They all had that “WTF” looks when I smoothly cut angles on them and punched their jaws from their sides.

    It’s a little confusing, based on how they worded everything.

    Here is the authors’ own explanation:

    In analyzing intermarriage rates, many scholars argue that it is more accurate to focus on this portion of the Asian American population rather than on all Asian Americans because these Asians who were raised in the U.S. constitute the group that is most “at risk” in the statistical sense. That is, having grown up in the U.S., they are immersed in American culture and interracial dynamic, much more so than immigrants who were already married when they came to the U.S.

    The results show that, compared to the “All Spouses” or “USR + USR or FR” models, the “USR +USR Only” model show that the U.S.-raised are much more likely to outmarry with either Whites or an Other Asian American (pan-Asian).

    As for the Japanese…

    Also, I’d note that many US-raised Japanese-Americans are older people who grew up in 1960s and 1970s, when intermarriage was relatively rare. So comparing them to other US-raised Asians isn’t completely fair because non-Japanese US-raised Asians are younger and grew up in a racially more liberal era.

    That is an excellent point. I did think that the intermarriage rates of Japanese were a bit odd since most multi-generational Japanese-Americans I have known are only partially Japanese (meaning, very high intermarriage rates).

    An interesting oddity of that data is that with Japanese females the intermarriage rates to whites *declines* as acculturation increases! Their numbers are 38.1% (all spouses), 29.4% (USR + USR or FR), and 29.9% (USR + USR). So their male-female gap at the USR + USR segment is less than 5 percentage points.

    The study actually had a huge sample size.

    Yes, true enough. But sampling size alone doesn’t address the efficacy of the sampling itself (think about sampling ALL blacks in America, a huge number, and extrapolating that to “Americans at large” – that will lead to all kinds of inaccurate conclusions). In other words, if there is a strong polarization in data between the hypergamous minority and the monogamous majority, trends in the behaviors of the former is not likely to represent those of the latter accurately. I am not saying the STD proxy is useless, only that we should recognize the sampling biases and be cautious about generalizing to the populations at large, a majority of which may display very different sexual behaviors and preferences as compared to the “unusual” minority. This is where median vs. mean comes in handy.

    If whites are “beta” and East Asians are “lesser beta”, then South Asians would be “omega.”

    I don’t get this obsession with “alpha” or “beta” terms. When I was growing up two-three decades ago, the main division among young men was jocks vs. nerds. I happened to have been both, so I had friends who were athletes, friends who were studious, and friends who were, as I was, both.

    I am just baffled by all this “gaming women” and “alpha” vs. “beta” talk about which younger guys seem to obsess today. I’ve led men in combat, and I was always taught that if one wanted to be a leader one had to learn to obey first. So all this pursuit of “alpha-ness” strikes me as posturing of the insecure.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Twinkie

    There was a study from the UK that suggested interracial marriage rates are strongly influenced by height. If Koreans are taller than other Asians, that works to their advantage. I've definitely known my share of tall Koreans and generally noticed that North Asians (Koreans and Northern Chinese) are taller than those from further south (Cantonese, Vietnamese, Fujianese).


    On average, East Asians have faster reaction times than other ethnic groups. So they tend to excel in sports in which that factor is important (such as ping pong, badminton, fencing, and combat sports). If you know anything about, say, Shotokan Karate, for example, you know that it’s pretty much a game of reaction time (along with timing/distancing).
     
    Interesting observation. Given that reaction times correlate with IQ, would that suggest that higher IQ people would make better athletes at those sports?

    The results show that, compared to the “All Spouses” or “USR + USR or FR” models, the “USR +USR Only” model show that the U.S.-raised are much more likely to outmarry with either Whites or an Other Asian American (pan-Asian).

     

    USR + USR excludes US-raised Asians who marry from "back home." I believe among South Asians, arranged marriages with those partners are very common. Less so among East Asians.

    think about sampling ALL blacks in America, a huge number, and extrapolating that to “Americans at large” – that will lead to all kinds of inaccurate conclusions)
     
    The study did give a breakdown by ethnicity.

    My guess is that the chlamydia infection rate would be lower for the general population, but the ethnic/gender gaps would persist. I'd guess those ethnic/gender gaps wouldn't change much even if the whole population was sampled, even if the infection rates would be different.

    A study like this is useful not for coming up with numbers, but giving us a sense of the gaps between groups.

    In other words, if there is a strong polarization in data between the hypergamous minority and the monogamous majority, trends in the behaviors of the former is not likely to represent those of the latter accurately. I am not saying the STD proxy is useless, only that we should recognize the sampling biases and be cautious about generalizing to the populations at large, a majority of which may display very different sexual behaviors and preferences as compared to the “unusual” minority. This is where median vs. mean comes in handy.

     

    I agree that infection rates would be lower in the general population, but
    the gaps would persist. The reason is because probability distributions are different.

    Here's an analogy. The black-white IQ gap is about one standard deviation. Among white and black law students, the bar exam passage rate gap is also close to one standard deviation, despite law students being much smarter than the general population. While we can't compare law students to the general population, the black-white gap persists because blacks and whites have different IQ distributions. So even the black law students are about one SD behind the white law students.

    My guess is that the various ethnic/gender groups have different sexual behavior distributions, which is reflected in the chlamydia data. So while the exact infection rates of whites and South Asians would be lower in the general population than the skewed sampled population, the 0.5 standard deviation gap likely wouldn't change. Similar to how black law students may be a lot smart than the average black, but their cognitive abilities are still 1 SD below those of white law students.

    I don’t get this obsession with “alpha” or “beta” terms.
     
    Well I use the terms "alpha", "beta", and "omega" just because they're in widespread circulation. My point was that South Asian men seem to have significantly fewer sexual partnerships than white men, while blacks may have more. We could use standard terms too if you want.

    I’ve led men in combat, and I was always taught that if one wanted to be a leader one had to learn to obey first.
     
    I think in the past, alpha/beta was more about who had power, wealth, or command presence. These days, most younger men (and women) are concerned about popularity and sexual attractiveness. In the 1950s, General Eisenhower was the typical "alpha." In 2015, an alpha would be a high profile athlete or movie star. Such as Paul Walker from the "Fast and Furious." Definitely there's been a change in priorities over time and what people find fashionable.

    Read this.

    http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/2012/07/everyone-a-harlot/
  101. @Twinkie
    @Truth

    Don't you find it comical that this black professor spends bulk of the op-ed valorizing the historically black colleges only to mention ever so slightly at the very end that she's leaving for a predominantly white university?

    To me, this perfectly captures the general mood of the black population - "Black power! Black power! Oh, wait, what? You're giving me a job in the nice white neighborhood? See y'all later. I know it looks like I'm abandoning y'all, but keep the faith, my brothers and sisters! I am just going to be fighting the white power structure from the inside."

    Replies: @Truth

    Don’t you find it comical that this black professor spends bulk of the op-ed valorizing the historically black colleges only to mention ever so slightly at the very end that she’s leaving for a predominantly white university?

    No, they pay more.

  102. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    Hey, don’t tell that to me, tell it to Angry Asian Man.
     
    I don't know who that is. Is he some sort of a sociologist who studies this issue or, judging from the title, some loser writing from mom's basement who blames everything on whitey?

    As members of a relatively small, wealthy and well-adjusted minority, it’s no surprise Asians of both sexes have high intermarriage rates. The real story is the gap between Asian female intermarriage rates and Asian male ones. But you’re not stupid, you know that.
     
    You would also note the following important facts:

    1. Intermarriage rates with whites vary considerably among different ethnic groups within the larger (and generally less useful) "Asian" category. For example, USR + USR Vietnamese males intermarry white females at 21.9% while Korean males at 34.6%.

    2. Intermarriage rates vary considerably based on acculturation status, meaning U.S.-born or -raised Asian males are far more likely to intermarry. For example, "all spouses" Korean males intermarry white females at only 5.3% but USR + USR Korean males at 34.6%. That's over six fold (!) increase in the intermarriage rates based on acculturation (actually more than six fold since the first is inclusive of the third category), which should tell you that much of the "handicap" Asian men have is largely based on social status/assimilation.

    3. The male-female gap does persist, but it *shrinks* dramatically as acculturation increases. For example, "all spouses" Vietnamese females intermarry white males at 9.4%, but the number for USR + USR is 41.3, roughly 4.4X. The same category numbers for Vietnamese males are 2.8% and 21.9%, over 7.8X. In other words, much of the gap is a function of the fact that immigrant females are accessible to the native males, but the reverse is not true. And it starts to disappear as immigrant males and their sons benefit from acculturation and rising social status.

    Asian men who are all about embracing HBD except when it comes to objectively looking at their own kind are pathetic.
     
    I think pathetic people are those who don't look at the data carefully and draw scientific conclusions because they have insecurities.

    Look here. I am 6' 2". I have been an athlete all my life and have elite educational, economic, and political credentials. I married an extremely desirable woman from a prestigious family who has given me many children during our 20+ years of marriage. My children are virtuous, intelligent, and beautiful (my oldest son is an absolute babe magnet - he looks a lot like the UFC fighter Alan Jouban, except my boy has lighter hair and a bit less "cut" look: https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/SwFiNLiAGDJS9nFy50cYsA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYwMA--/https://s.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-08-14/82ae25b0-2359-11e4-9867-f5a977a7340e_jouban2.jpg) .

    Frankly, it matters nothing to me personally whether Asian immigrant males intermarry at high rates or low rates (although I do think that high intermarriage rates of immigrants in general is a good thing for the citizenist cause and our society in general PROVIDED the number of immigrants is very low). But the data are what they are, and we ought to draw accurate conclusions from them, not some juvenile and frankly stupid conclusions like "blacks > Hispanics > whites > Asians" or "Asian males are repellent to women."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The stats are all out there, for those who don’t believe their lying eyes in everyday life and want to see it on paper . If not looking at them objectively helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out. And keep telling yourself people only believe Asian men are not very desirable out of “insecurity” or “desperately wanting to believe it”. Even if all East Asian men overnight became total ladykillers there’d still be too few of them to pose a real threat to white men in more than a few locations. The mean white folks are not all that invested, Twinkie. Seems like you’re projecting.

    And while I guess it’s nice that you’re proud of your kid, why bring it up here? Step back for a moment and you might realize that bragging online about your kid being hot is exactly the kind of thing an insecure Asian man would do. Nobody here cares what your kid looks like, Twinkie.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    The stats are all out there
     
    Of course they are. I provided the most comprehensive and granular data than anyone else has in this forum. You just ignore them because they are inconvenient to your mental construct. Let me repeat:

    For example, “all spouses” Korean males intermarry white females at only 5.3% but USR + USR Korean males at 34.6%. That’s over six fold (!) increase in the intermarriage rates based on acculturation (actually more than six fold since the first is inclusive of the third category)...

    Based on the "all spouses" number one can surmise that Korean males in America and native white females do not intermarry much at all. But look at the USR + USR data. It means that over a third of American-raised Korean males are marrying white women, quite a feat for those who are supposedly repellent to white women.

    Even if all East Asian men overnight became total ladykillers there’d still be too few of them to pose a real threat to white men in more than a few locations.
     
    Who's talking about a "threat" to white men? We are talking about getting an accurate understanding of a sociological phenomenon, Asian male-white female intermarry rates. You are going about talking about a "threat." That's a text book symptom of insecurity.

    Nobody here cares what your kid looks like, Twinkie.
     
    Didn't realize that you appointed yourself to speak for all here.

    Apparently there are enough people in the world who do care about what my kids look like because there is a swarm of very attractive teenage girls at my house who want to hang out with my oldest son (I don't think it's because he's great at math), and because my wife and I have been already approached by modeling agencies about two of our daughters who draw comments about their beauty wherever we go.

    Fathers who have gorgeous children like mine do not have insecurities about "getting chicks." The proof is in the product, so to speak.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  103. @Twinkie
    @Alex M


    Given this fact, it is undoubtedly the case that if we isolate for married white women only, the ethnicity correlation will greatly increase!
     
    You clearly know little about women.

    Most Asian and white women marry men with similar or *higher* educational credentials than they have while men tend to care A LOT less about "the highest degree attained" among their female partners. If you were to separate the sexes, the power of the ethnicity coefficient may well increase, but so will factors that relate to the male educational, social, and economic status.

    Shouldn’t a fanatical adherent to the genetic determinism dogma such as your self be tearing his hair out? Or are you now a big believer in “environmental factors”.
     
    I believe I mentioned numerous times in this blog that among the intelligent, the debate is between environmentarians who attribute everything to nurture and hereditarians who attribute causation to both nature *and* nurture. I am a hereditarian in general, but not a reductionist, so your straw man ("genetic determinism dogma") is, as usual, highly inaccurate. I also mentioned more than once that, in absence of other data, I subscribe to Mr. Sailer's 50/50 rule.

    What’s a dime a dozen are all the Asian men crying on the internet about how they can’t get women. They’re even willing to pay thousands of dollars just to be able to learn how to talk to a girl.
     
    1. Rich people's problem. Maybe losers among Mexicans would do it too if they had the money. Or were as internet-savvy.

    2. How do you explain that Asian men in America have the highest marriage rates?

    3. How do you explain that tall, Christian, and acculturated Asian males (such as USR Koreans) intermarry white women at such high rates (34.6%)? Over a third is a very high rate of intermarriage.

    Replies: @Alex M

    1. Rich people’s problem. Maybe losers among Mexicans would do it too if they had the money. Or were as internet-savvy.

    As a matter of fact, Hispanics are incredibly “internet-savvy”. It’s simply that they don’t suffer the dating woes that Asian men do.
    http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/220256/hispanics-lead-stats-in-social-media-usage.html?edition=

    2. How do you explain that Asian men in America have the highest marriage rates?

    Simple, first they’re a small demographic. Secondly, Asians are of course highly traditional, so they’ve been slower to the trend of cohabitation, but they’re marrying at far lower rates than before.
    http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/09/26/351736134/marriage-rates-are-falling-and-for-some-faster-than-ohters

    The number of nonmarried Asian-Americans over 25 was around 13 percent in 1980; today, it’s roughly a fifth of all Asian folks. (It’s important to note that 1960 was the high-water mark for American marriages.)

    And here’s a very interesting fact from the same article,

    Another interesting wrinkle: While the Pew data show that the rate of nonmarried Latinos has doubled over the past 50 years and the rate of unmarried, cohabitating parents has climbed, another new study from Child Trends found that nearly 60 percent of Latino children were being raised by two married parents. Latino kids were also more likely than blacks or whites to eat a meal with their families six or seven days a week, and those meals were likely to be cooked at home.

    Put another way: When we reference the traditional, married, two-parent American family that eats home-cooked meals together in our popular culture, maybe we should start showing them as Latinos.

    You also write

    3. How do you explain that tall, Christian, and acculturated Asian males (such as USR Koreans) intermarry white women at such high rates (34.6%)? Over a third is a very high rate of intermarriage.

    Well, I’ve only explained it to you about a hundred times already, but what the heck. First, it’s of supreme importance to note that the Korean population only numbers at 1.7 million. To put that into perspective, the total US population numbers at 319 million, so Koreans are only (1/2) of 1% of the total US population! Assuming that Koreans break down 50-50 along the sexes, then Korean men would comprise a whole (1/2)of (1/2 )of 1% of the total US population! And if we control for non-acculturated males…. And Korean women intermarry at a rate 66% higher than Korean men….HAHAHA! Just let that sink in….and then let it sink in some more…. Now tell me again about the “high” intermarriage rates of Korean males…..I suspect that there might be a couple of African pygmies loose somewhere in the United States, and if one of them is married to a white woman, then African pygmies will have a 50% intermmarriage rate with whites and that will prove how much white women desire African pygmies….HAHAHA!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Alex M


    As a matter of fact, Hispanics are incredibly “internet-savvy”.
     
    Of course, that's why they founded IT companies like Yahoo and run Microsoft. And that's why I see a sea of Hispanics when I visit Silicon Valley offices. Just about everyone single janitor I see at those offices is Hispanic... because of their "incredible internet-savvy," of course.

    Asians are of course highly traditional, so they’ve been slower to the trend of cohabitation
     
    Sure, okay. So what you are saying is that if they are really traditional, they can abduct unwilling women and force the latter to marry them.

    If Asian men were really "repellent to women," their "traditionalism" wouldn't do them any good in being able to attract marriage partners at high rates. And unlike Mexican men who date and impregnate minors, Asians tend to marry late when the partners in question are mature and can consent rationally as adults.


    Well, I’ve only explained it to you about a hundred times already, but what the heck. First, it’s of supreme importance to note that the Korean population only numbers at 1.7 million... I suspect that there might be a couple of African pygmies loose somewhere in the United States, and if one of them is married to a white woman, then African pygmies will have a 50% intermmarriage rate with whites and that will prove how much white women desire African pygmies
     
    Your pigmy example is a reductio ad absurdum. And, yes, I read this absurd argument several times and you don't seem to understand why it is silly. Let me break it down for you in small words in detail.

    1. National percentage rate is not particularly useful since population concentration varies wildly. So, while Koreans are only 1.7 million (2010 Census) among a population of 308,745,538 (2010 Census), a bit over half a percent, they are much more regionally concentrated. For example, in the highly affluent Bergen County, NJ they are a hair under 7% of the population. Indeed, in Bergen county, as of 2010, the population was 15% Asian and 16% Hispanic. Or look at elite universities, since the Asian percentage at such campuses are around 15-40%, you can expect that a substantial fraction of that is Korean.

    You argument about two pigmies would work if we were talking about North Dakota, but not if we are talking about (regionally) the coastal areas (L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, DC-MD-Northern VA, etc.) or (institutionally) elite university campuses, medical schools, hospitals, IT companies, investment banking firms, etc.

    Or take me as an example. I live in a very prominent and elite area of the upper South. My larger neighborhood is roughly 15% Asian, 2% Hispanic and 1% black. By your logic, the blacks should have the highest intermarriage rate here among minorities, but they don't. They have the lowest. Asians have the highest.

    2. Vietnamese and Koreans have similar population numbers in the U.S., the former around 1.67 million and the latter about 1.7 million. By your logic, their men should have very similar intermarriage rates. They don't. In fact, USR Vietnamese men have the lowest intermarriage rate with white females among Asian ethnics while USR Koreans have the highest. So this is another evidence that the national population percentage is useless as a variable except in absurdly small or large cases (e.g. your pigmy example or, on the other side of the spectrum, some ethnic group that might be 99% of the population).

    3. There is a number of other variables that display much greater correlations to intermarriage than the national percentage you keep citing as if that's some sort of a dramatic discovery. The link I provided above (derived from Census data) shows that acculturation shows a HUGE increase in correlations, that is, "fresh off the boat" Asian males are either already married to their co-ethnics or are otherwise less likely to intermarry with white females. USR Asian male intermarriage rate jumps enormously (six plus-fold increase is HUGE).

    Razib Khan's citation of a small study shows that "highest degree attained" is a bigger factor than ethnicity (and of course, Asians have the highest average degree attained).

    And on his blog, I provided two other variables that correlate very well with Asian male intermarriage with whites - religion and height. The two Asian groups with the highest intermarriage rates with whites, Koreans and Filipinos, have incredibly high rates of Christian affiliation (Koreans in America are 61% Protestant and 10% Catholics while Filipinos are 21% Protestant, 65% Catholic). And I already mentioned that Korean young males have near parity with American male average in height, which further aids their high intermarriage rate with white females (women *rarely* choose partners who are shorter than they are).

    So, no, much as you'd like to believe and much as you continue to assert it, national percentage rate is NOT of "supreme importance" in intermarriage rates.

    Finally, on a humorous note, let me give you a visual example of the power of acculturation for Asian men. When you sound like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTx2PfQR-Po

    You end up like this: https://www.facebook.com/HenryChoComedy/photos/pb.151309868245640.-2207520000.1432779984./887720761271210/?type=3&theater

    By the way, that's Cho, his white wife, and kids doing Christian mission work in Latin America.

  104. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    The stats are all out there, for those who don't believe their lying eyes in everyday life and want to see it on paper . If not looking at them objectively helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out. And keep telling yourself people only believe Asian men are not very desirable out of "insecurity" or "desperately wanting to believe it". Even if all East Asian men overnight became total ladykillers there'd still be too few of them to pose a real threat to white men in more than a few locations. The mean white folks are not all that invested, Twinkie. Seems like you're projecting.

    And while I guess it's nice that you're proud of your kid, why bring it up here? Step back for a moment and you might realize that bragging online about your kid being hot is exactly the kind of thing an insecure Asian man would do. Nobody here cares what your kid looks like, Twinkie.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    The stats are all out there

    Of course they are. I provided the most comprehensive and granular data than anyone else has in this forum. You just ignore them because they are inconvenient to your mental construct. Let me repeat:

    For example, “all spouses” Korean males intermarry white females at only 5.3% but USR + USR Korean males at 34.6%. That’s over six fold (!) increase in the intermarriage rates based on acculturation (actually more than six fold since the first is inclusive of the third category)…

    Based on the “all spouses” number one can surmise that Korean males in America and native white females do not intermarry much at all. But look at the USR + USR data. It means that over a third of American-raised Korean males are marrying white women, quite a feat for those who are supposedly repellent to white women.

    Even if all East Asian men overnight became total ladykillers there’d still be too few of them to pose a real threat to white men in more than a few locations.

    Who’s talking about a “threat” to white men? We are talking about getting an accurate understanding of a sociological phenomenon, Asian male-white female intermarry rates. You are going about talking about a “threat.” That’s a text book symptom of insecurity.

    Nobody here cares what your kid looks like, Twinkie.

    Didn’t realize that you appointed yourself to speak for all here.

    Apparently there are enough people in the world who do care about what my kids look like because there is a swarm of very attractive teenage girls at my house who want to hang out with my oldest son (I don’t think it’s because he’s great at math), and because my wife and I have been already approached by modeling agencies about two of our daughters who draw comments about their beauty wherever we go.

    Fathers who have gorgeous children like mine do not have insecurities about “getting chicks.” The proof is in the product, so to speak.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Oh right, you weren't talking about a threat? Well, you're always banging on about how white men noticing the obvious about Asian men are "insecure" and "desperately wanting to believe". So, why exactly would white men feel that way?

    Oh, Twinkie, you sound just like a middle aged housewife on a parenting forum. Your kid could be a Casanova, and it still wouldn't tell us anything about (half) Asian men in general. And while you might have done just fine in that respect personally, your ethnic pride is obviously hurting badly. Your posts and the bragging reek of it. Asian HBD enthusiasts pleading with the world not to believe its lying eyes when it looks at them are funny. Can't expect people not to point and laugh.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  105. @Alex M
    @Twinkie


    1. Rich people’s problem. Maybe losers among Mexicans would do it too if they had the money. Or were as internet-savvy.
     
    As a matter of fact, Hispanics are incredibly "internet-savvy". It's simply that they don't suffer the dating woes that Asian men do.
    http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/220256/hispanics-lead-stats-in-social-media-usage.html?edition=

    2. How do you explain that Asian men in America have the highest marriage rates?
     
    Simple, first they're a small demographic. Secondly, Asians are of course highly traditional, so they've been slower to the trend of cohabitation, but they're marrying at far lower rates than before.
    http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/09/26/351736134/marriage-rates-are-falling-and-for-some-faster-than-ohters

    The number of nonmarried Asian-Americans over 25 was around 13 percent in 1980; today, it's roughly a fifth of all Asian folks. (It's important to note that 1960 was the high-water mark for American marriages.)
     
    And here's a very interesting fact from the same article,

    Another interesting wrinkle: While the Pew data show that the rate of nonmarried Latinos has doubled over the past 50 years and the rate of unmarried, cohabitating parents has climbed, another new study from Child Trends found that nearly 60 percent of Latino children were being raised by two married parents. Latino kids were also more likely than blacks or whites to eat a meal with their families six or seven days a week, and those meals were likely to be cooked at home.

    Put another way: When we reference the traditional, married, two-parent American family that eats home-cooked meals together in our popular culture, maybe we should start showing them as Latinos.
     
    You also write

    3. How do you explain that tall, Christian, and acculturated Asian males (such as USR Koreans) intermarry white women at such high rates (34.6%)? Over a third is a very high rate of intermarriage.
     
    Well, I've only explained it to you about a hundred times already, but what the heck. First, it's of supreme importance to note that the Korean population only numbers at 1.7 million. To put that into perspective, the total US population numbers at 319 million, so Koreans are only (1/2) of 1% of the total US population! Assuming that Koreans break down 50-50 along the sexes, then Korean men would comprise a whole (1/2)of (1/2 )of 1% of the total US population! And if we control for non-acculturated males.... And Korean women intermarry at a rate 66% higher than Korean men....HAHAHA! Just let that sink in....and then let it sink in some more.... Now tell me again about the "high" intermarriage rates of Korean males.....I suspect that there might be a couple of African pygmies loose somewhere in the United States, and if one of them is married to a white woman, then African pygmies will have a 50% intermmarriage rate with whites and that will prove how much white women desire African pygmies....HAHAHA!

    Replies: @Twinkie

    As a matter of fact, Hispanics are incredibly “internet-savvy”.

    Of course, that’s why they founded IT companies like Yahoo and run Microsoft. And that’s why I see a sea of Hispanics when I visit Silicon Valley offices. Just about everyone single janitor I see at those offices is Hispanic… because of their “incredible internet-savvy,” of course.

    Asians are of course highly traditional, so they’ve been slower to the trend of cohabitation

    Sure, okay. So what you are saying is that if they are really traditional, they can abduct unwilling women and force the latter to marry them.

    If Asian men were really “repellent to women,” their “traditionalism” wouldn’t do them any good in being able to attract marriage partners at high rates. And unlike Mexican men who date and impregnate minors, Asians tend to marry late when the partners in question are mature and can consent rationally as adults.

    Well, I’ve only explained it to you about a hundred times already, but what the heck. First, it’s of supreme importance to note that the Korean population only numbers at 1.7 million… I suspect that there might be a couple of African pygmies loose somewhere in the United States, and if one of them is married to a white woman, then African pygmies will have a 50% intermmarriage rate with whites and that will prove how much white women desire African pygmies

    Your pigmy example is a reductio ad absurdum. And, yes, I read this absurd argument several times and you don’t seem to understand why it is silly. Let me break it down for you in small words in detail.

    1. National percentage rate is not particularly useful since population concentration varies wildly. So, while Koreans are only 1.7 million (2010 Census) among a population of 308,745,538 (2010 Census), a bit over half a percent, they are much more regionally concentrated. For example, in the highly affluent Bergen County, NJ they are a hair under 7% of the population. Indeed, in Bergen county, as of 2010, the population was 15% Asian and 16% Hispanic. Or look at elite universities, since the Asian percentage at such campuses are around 15-40%, you can expect that a substantial fraction of that is Korean.

    You argument about two pigmies would work if we were talking about North Dakota, but not if we are talking about (regionally) the coastal areas (L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, DC-MD-Northern VA, etc.) or (institutionally) elite university campuses, medical schools, hospitals, IT companies, investment banking firms, etc.

    Or take me as an example. I live in a very prominent and elite area of the upper South. My larger neighborhood is roughly 15% Asian, 2% Hispanic and 1% black. By your logic, the blacks should have the highest intermarriage rate here among minorities, but they don’t. They have the lowest. Asians have the highest.

    2. Vietnamese and Koreans have similar population numbers in the U.S., the former around 1.67 million and the latter about 1.7 million. By your logic, their men should have very similar intermarriage rates. They don’t. In fact, USR Vietnamese men have the lowest intermarriage rate with white females among Asian ethnics while USR Koreans have the highest. So this is another evidence that the national population percentage is useless as a variable except in absurdly small or large cases (e.g. your pigmy example or, on the other side of the spectrum, some ethnic group that might be 99% of the population).

    3. There is a number of other variables that display much greater correlations to intermarriage than the national percentage you keep citing as if that’s some sort of a dramatic discovery. The link I provided above (derived from Census data) shows that acculturation shows a HUGE increase in correlations, that is, “fresh off the boat” Asian males are either already married to their co-ethnics or are otherwise less likely to intermarry with white females. USR Asian male intermarriage rate jumps enormously (six plus-fold increase is HUGE).

    Razib Khan’s citation of a small study shows that “highest degree attained” is a bigger factor than ethnicity (and of course, Asians have the highest average degree attained).

    And on his blog, I provided two other variables that correlate very well with Asian male intermarriage with whites – religion and height. The two Asian groups with the highest intermarriage rates with whites, Koreans and Filipinos, have incredibly high rates of Christian affiliation (Koreans in America are 61% Protestant and 10% Catholics while Filipinos are 21% Protestant, 65% Catholic). And I already mentioned that Korean young males have near parity with American male average in height, which further aids their high intermarriage rate with white females (women *rarely* choose partners who are shorter than they are).

    So, no, much as you’d like to believe and much as you continue to assert it, national percentage rate is NOT of “supreme importance” in intermarriage rates.

    Finally, on a humorous note, let me give you a visual example of the power of acculturation for Asian men. When you sound like this:

    You end up like this: https://www.facebook.com/HenryChoComedy/photos/pb.151309868245640.-2207520000.1432779984./887720761271210/?type=3&theater

    By the way, that’s Cho, his white wife, and kids doing Christian mission work in Latin America.

  106. @Twinkie
    @JohnnyWalker123


    Wow. I didn’t realize South Korea did that well at the Olympics. SK, Japan, and China are all performing very well. I’m not surprised Koreans do well in combat sports, as they are (in my experience) more pugnacious than other Asians.
     
    You might also be surprised that there have been two Korean male Marathon winners (as well as a few other lesser medalists and winners of non-Olympic Marathons). So apparently they give African highlanders a run for their money once in a while. Koreans also benefit athletically from the fact that their men have the highest average height in Asia. At 5' 8 1/2" it is pretty close to the American average of 5' 9" and not too far from the American white average of 5' 10".

    I suspect that their relatively high average height also explain high intermarriage rates with white females in the U.S. (height is a HUGE factor in female selection of male partners) along with their incredibly high rate of Protestantism (Koreans in the U.S are 61% Protestant and 10% Catholic - a whopping 71% of Koreans in America are Christians).

    Studies actually show that Asians have a lower body fat percentage than whites, which is useful when competing in quite a few sports.
     
    On average, East Asians have faster reaction times than other ethnic groups. So they tend to excel in sports in which that factor is important (such as ping pong, badminton, fencing, and combat sports). If you know anything about, say, Shotokan Karate, for example, you know that it's pretty much a game of reaction time (along with timing/distancing).

    I think where Asians lack is size, but pound-for-pound they perform well. For example, there are quite a few Korean and Japanese boxers and MMA fighters at the lower weight levels.
     
    My father put me in boxing and Judo since I was a toddler, and I grew up training with Olympic athletes in both (and I was later the main training partner for an Olympic medalist in Judo in college). The first time I stepped into a boxing gym in the U.S., I got a lot of skeptical looks, because of the "chinks don't play sports" myth, especially among blacks. I must admit it was extremely satisfying to knock down repeatedly the first several sparring partners who took me for granted. They all had that "WTF" looks when I smoothly cut angles on them and punched their jaws from their sides.

    It’s a little confusing, based on how they worded everything.
     
    Here is the authors' own explanation:

    In analyzing intermarriage rates, many scholars argue that it is more accurate to focus on this portion of the Asian American population rather than on all Asian Americans because these Asians who were raised in the U.S. constitute the group that is most "at risk" in the statistical sense. That is, having grown up in the U.S., they are immersed in American culture and interracial dynamic, much more so than immigrants who were already married when they came to the U.S.

    The results show that, compared to the "All Spouses" or "USR + USR or FR" models, the "USR +USR Only" model show that the U.S.-raised are much more likely to outmarry with either Whites or an Other Asian American (pan-Asian).
     
    As for the Japanese...

    Also, I’d note that many US-raised Japanese-Americans are older people who grew up in 1960s and 1970s, when intermarriage was relatively rare. So comparing them to other US-raised Asians isn’t completely fair because non-Japanese US-raised Asians are younger and grew up in a racially more liberal era.
     
    That is an excellent point. I did think that the intermarriage rates of Japanese were a bit odd since most multi-generational Japanese-Americans I have known are only partially Japanese (meaning, very high intermarriage rates).

    An interesting oddity of that data is that with Japanese females the intermarriage rates to whites *declines* as acculturation increases! Their numbers are 38.1% (all spouses), 29.4% (USR + USR or FR), and 29.9% (USR + USR). So their male-female gap at the USR + USR segment is less than 5 percentage points.

    The study actually had a huge sample size.
     
    Yes, true enough. But sampling size alone doesn't address the efficacy of the sampling itself (think about sampling ALL blacks in America, a huge number, and extrapolating that to "Americans at large" - that will lead to all kinds of inaccurate conclusions). In other words, if there is a strong polarization in data between the hypergamous minority and the monogamous majority, trends in the behaviors of the former is not likely to represent those of the latter accurately. I am not saying the STD proxy is useless, only that we should recognize the sampling biases and be cautious about generalizing to the populations at large, a majority of which may display very different sexual behaviors and preferences as compared to the "unusual" minority. This is where median vs. mean comes in handy.

    If whites are “beta” and East Asians are “lesser beta”, then South Asians would be “omega.”
     
    I don't get this obsession with "alpha" or "beta" terms. When I was growing up two-three decades ago, the main division among young men was jocks vs. nerds. I happened to have been both, so I had friends who were athletes, friends who were studious, and friends who were, as I was, both.

    I am just baffled by all this "gaming women" and "alpha" vs. "beta" talk about which younger guys seem to obsess today. I've led men in combat, and I was always taught that if one wanted to be a leader one had to learn to obey first. So all this pursuit of "alpha-ness" strikes me as posturing of the insecure.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    There was a study from the UK that suggested interracial marriage rates are strongly influenced by height. If Koreans are taller than other Asians, that works to their advantage. I’ve definitely known my share of tall Koreans and generally noticed that North Asians (Koreans and Northern Chinese) are taller than those from further south (Cantonese, Vietnamese, Fujianese).

    On average, East Asians have faster reaction times than other ethnic groups. So they tend to excel in sports in which that factor is important (such as ping pong, badminton, fencing, and combat sports). If you know anything about, say, Shotokan Karate, for example, you know that it’s pretty much a game of reaction time (along with timing/distancing).

    Interesting observation. Given that reaction times correlate with IQ, would that suggest that higher IQ people would make better athletes at those sports?

    The results show that, compared to the “All Spouses” or “USR + USR or FR” models, the “USR +USR Only” model show that the U.S.-raised are much more likely to outmarry with either Whites or an Other Asian American (pan-Asian).

    USR + USR excludes US-raised Asians who marry from “back home.” I believe among South Asians, arranged marriages with those partners are very common. Less so among East Asians.

    think about sampling ALL blacks in America, a huge number, and extrapolating that to “Americans at large” – that will lead to all kinds of inaccurate conclusions)

    The study did give a breakdown by ethnicity.

    My guess is that the chlamydia infection rate would be lower for the general population, but the ethnic/gender gaps would persist. I’d guess those ethnic/gender gaps wouldn’t change much even if the whole population was sampled, even if the infection rates would be different.

    A study like this is useful not for coming up with numbers, but giving us a sense of the gaps between groups.

    In other words, if there is a strong polarization in data between the hypergamous minority and the monogamous majority, trends in the behaviors of the former is not likely to represent those of the latter accurately. I am not saying the STD proxy is useless, only that we should recognize the sampling biases and be cautious about generalizing to the populations at large, a majority of which may display very different sexual behaviors and preferences as compared to the “unusual” minority. This is where median vs. mean comes in handy.

    I agree that infection rates would be lower in the general population, but
    the gaps would persist. The reason is because probability distributions are different.

    Here’s an analogy. The black-white IQ gap is about one standard deviation. Among white and black law students, the bar exam passage rate gap is also close to one standard deviation, despite law students being much smarter than the general population. While we can’t compare law students to the general population, the black-white gap persists because blacks and whites have different IQ distributions. So even the black law students are about one SD behind the white law students.

    My guess is that the various ethnic/gender groups have different sexual behavior distributions, which is reflected in the chlamydia data. So while the exact infection rates of whites and South Asians would be lower in the general population than the skewed sampled population, the 0.5 standard deviation gap likely wouldn’t change. Similar to how black law students may be a lot smart than the average black, but their cognitive abilities are still 1 SD below those of white law students.

    I don’t get this obsession with “alpha” or “beta” terms.

    Well I use the terms “alpha”, “beta”, and “omega” just because they’re in widespread circulation. My point was that South Asian men seem to have significantly fewer sexual partnerships than white men, while blacks may have more. We could use standard terms too if you want.

    I’ve led men in combat, and I was always taught that if one wanted to be a leader one had to learn to obey first.

    I think in the past, alpha/beta was more about who had power, wealth, or command presence. These days, most younger men (and women) are concerned about popularity and sexual attractiveness. In the 1950s, General Eisenhower was the typical “alpha.” In 2015, an alpha would be a high profile athlete or movie star. Such as Paul Walker from the “Fast and Furious.” Definitely there’s been a change in priorities over time and what people find fashionable.

    Read this.

    http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/2012/07/everyone-a-harlot/

  107. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    The stats are all out there
     
    Of course they are. I provided the most comprehensive and granular data than anyone else has in this forum. You just ignore them because they are inconvenient to your mental construct. Let me repeat:

    For example, “all spouses” Korean males intermarry white females at only 5.3% but USR + USR Korean males at 34.6%. That’s over six fold (!) increase in the intermarriage rates based on acculturation (actually more than six fold since the first is inclusive of the third category)...

    Based on the "all spouses" number one can surmise that Korean males in America and native white females do not intermarry much at all. But look at the USR + USR data. It means that over a third of American-raised Korean males are marrying white women, quite a feat for those who are supposedly repellent to white women.

    Even if all East Asian men overnight became total ladykillers there’d still be too few of them to pose a real threat to white men in more than a few locations.
     
    Who's talking about a "threat" to white men? We are talking about getting an accurate understanding of a sociological phenomenon, Asian male-white female intermarry rates. You are going about talking about a "threat." That's a text book symptom of insecurity.

    Nobody here cares what your kid looks like, Twinkie.
     
    Didn't realize that you appointed yourself to speak for all here.

    Apparently there are enough people in the world who do care about what my kids look like because there is a swarm of very attractive teenage girls at my house who want to hang out with my oldest son (I don't think it's because he's great at math), and because my wife and I have been already approached by modeling agencies about two of our daughters who draw comments about their beauty wherever we go.

    Fathers who have gorgeous children like mine do not have insecurities about "getting chicks." The proof is in the product, so to speak.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Oh right, you weren’t talking about a threat? Well, you’re always banging on about how white men noticing the obvious about Asian men are “insecure” and “desperately wanting to believe”. So, why exactly would white men feel that way?

    Oh, Twinkie, you sound just like a middle aged housewife on a parenting forum. Your kid could be a Casanova, and it still wouldn’t tell us anything about (half) Asian men in general. And while you might have done just fine in that respect personally, your ethnic pride is obviously hurting badly. Your posts and the bragging reek of it. Asian HBD enthusiasts pleading with the world not to believe its lying eyes when it looks at them are funny. Can’t expect people not to point and laugh.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anonymous


    “insecure” and “desperately wanting to believe”.
     
    As a matter of clarification, some of those descriptions were directed to "Alex M" who is Hispanic, and who is constantly on about how much Hispanic men are superior to Asian men.

    But as for white men, the ones who come up with things like "black > Hispanic > white > Asian in manliness" type of absurdity do strike me as insecure, yes. It's like they got beat up by black guys growing up and desperately want to believe they "too" are "manlier" than another ethnic group.

    Your posts and the bragging reek of it.
     
    My bragging* is about my own individual successes, not some "ethnic pride." I think it's quite silly to have "ethnic" pride (one can certainly have appreciation for positive traits of one's ethnic forebears) - a man is judged by *his* character and deeds foremost. To the extent I say positive things about Asians, it has nothing to do with "Asian pride," and everything to do with objective evaluation (which is why, even though I think they assimilate better than most other groups of immigrants, I still don't want large-scale Asian immigration - *any* large-scale immigration is bad for the country at large, objectively-speaking).

    *I am well aware of my own personality deficiency of arrogance and even my priest has kinda given up on that, so... sorry. I am going to talk about *my* awesome kids in the future again, so you best move along if you wish not to be annoyed by that.

    not to believe its lying eyes
     
    So are my eyes lying to me when I see couples like this on college campuses and churches? https://youtu.be/Sbii-Fp-QGQ (I believe they are , or were, NYC students.) Those must be "lily-white" guys, right? ("Lily-white": http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/asian.htm).

    In any case, you obviously don't want to talk numbers - facts at hand - but would rather engage in personal pissing contest, so let's end the conversation.
  108. @Anonymous
    @Twinkie

    Oh right, you weren't talking about a threat? Well, you're always banging on about how white men noticing the obvious about Asian men are "insecure" and "desperately wanting to believe". So, why exactly would white men feel that way?

    Oh, Twinkie, you sound just like a middle aged housewife on a parenting forum. Your kid could be a Casanova, and it still wouldn't tell us anything about (half) Asian men in general. And while you might have done just fine in that respect personally, your ethnic pride is obviously hurting badly. Your posts and the bragging reek of it. Asian HBD enthusiasts pleading with the world not to believe its lying eyes when it looks at them are funny. Can't expect people not to point and laugh.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    “insecure” and “desperately wanting to believe”.

    As a matter of clarification, some of those descriptions were directed to “Alex M” who is Hispanic, and who is constantly on about how much Hispanic men are superior to Asian men.

    But as for white men, the ones who come up with things like “black > Hispanic > white > Asian in manliness” type of absurdity do strike me as insecure, yes. It’s like they got beat up by black guys growing up and desperately want to believe they “too” are “manlier” than another ethnic group.

    Your posts and the bragging reek of it.

    My bragging* is about my own individual successes, not some “ethnic pride.” I think it’s quite silly to have “ethnic” pride (one can certainly have appreciation for positive traits of one’s ethnic forebears) – a man is judged by *his* character and deeds foremost. To the extent I say positive things about Asians, it has nothing to do with “Asian pride,” and everything to do with objective evaluation (which is why, even though I think they assimilate better than most other groups of immigrants, I still don’t want large-scale Asian immigration – *any* large-scale immigration is bad for the country at large, objectively-speaking).

    *I am well aware of my own personality deficiency of arrogance and even my priest has kinda given up on that, so… sorry. I am going to talk about *my* awesome kids in the future again, so you best move along if you wish not to be annoyed by that.

    not to believe its lying eyes

    So are my eyes lying to me when I see couples like this on college campuses and churches?

    (I believe they are , or were, NYC students.) Those must be “lily-white” guys, right? (“Lily-white”: http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/asian.htm).

    In any case, you obviously don’t want to talk numbers – facts at hand – but would rather engage in personal pissing contest, so let’s end the conversation.

  109. @Anonym
    @Muck Fexico

    The more defensible approach would have been to push them down past a good choke point, like Panama.

    Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe

    “The more defensible approach would have been to push them down past a good choke point, like Panama.”

    You don’t have to go all the way down to Panama; Mexico gets pretty narrow, just west of the Yucatan & Chiapas. Not as narrow as Panama, but narrow enough for a 1st World society like ours to police with great effectiveness. Sadly, its probably too late to implement such a plan.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Tehuantepec

  110. The latest from Fusion, reporting on a “racist” flyer posted in an apartment complex in Irvine: https://twitter.com/ThisIsFusion/status/604541570759704577

    The flyer asks African American residents to be mindful of noise levels overnight.

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