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The economy will remain in bad shape until consumers feel more confident that they won’t come to regret what they splurge on.

For example, should you take your mother out to brunch today, Mother’s Day? (If so, should you go to an indoor or outdoor venue?)

After all, you might all have a nice time. That could happen. Or maybe halfway through, your mother might blurt out that she knows your wife just came up with this idea of taking her to a fancy restaurant for Mother’s Day in order to kill her so she can inherit her house, which could dampen the general mood slightly.

There is a general problem that the economy largely thrives on people splurging to impress others. But why spend a lot of money to go out if you can’t be confident that the people you are treating really want to go out?

At present, nobody really knows what’s a good idea and what’s a bad idea.

Restoring consumer confidence and general Animal Spirits would do a lot for the economy, but The Experts haven’t offered a lot of practical hands-on disinterested advice about what it relatively safe and what is relatively risky. They spent all of February and March lying to the public about how it wouldn’t help to wear a mask and how the real danger was not washing your hands enough. Granted, I understand why they lied: America shamefully didn’t even have enough masks for emergency room personnel after having them sucked up off our store shelves by the Chinese who mailed them back to China.

But that history of lying is not confidence inducing.

Since then, we haven’t heard much from The Experts about what is more or less safe.

Here’s a self-published essay by a biology professor named Erin Bromage:

The Risks – Know Them – Avoid Them

Dr. Bromage offers a lot of (perhaps overconfident) hands on advice. And then in the comments, people in all sorts of occupations, often self-employed — such as doggy daycare and home organizing — ask him specific questions and he dares to give advice: e.g., a 15 minute haircut doesn’t sound too risky but watch out for a two hour hair treatment.

I’m rather dubious, but

His overall impressions are pretty similar to mine: you know all that stuff they told you in March about how this is mostly spread by touching rather than by talking, so just watch your hands a lot and don’t bother putting on a mask? Well, they were mostly pulling your leg. This is largely spread by respiration indoors.

Bromage cites a lot of the same well-documented early super-spreaders events as Jonathan Kay and I have.

All these infection events were indoors, with people closely-spaced, with lots of talking, singing, or yelling. The main sources for infection are home, workplace, public transport, social gatherings, and restaurants. This accounts for 90% of all transmission events. In contrast, outbreaks spread from shopping appear to be responsible for a small percentage of traced infections.

On the other hand, I’m concerned about biases stemming from the track and trace methodology. I suspect successful tracings might be biased toward respectable events, such as wedding receptions and funeral, where people sign Guest Registrars or have formal invitations or the like, or at least many of the guests know each other.

This methodological bias might help explain why so many of the most notorious super-spreader events were so intensely respectable, such as the notorious choir practice that infected 45 of the 60 members of church choir. Choirs have lists of members. In contrast, for example, gay bars thrive on anonymity and the thrill of meeting strangers. The South Korean government, with their 1984ish competence, just traced a big new outbreak to a gay bar. The Western media, which has been excited by the Korean ability to track and trace, is suddenly not so sure it’s such a good thing when it turned out a recent super-spreader went to three gay discos in one night.

… Where are people getting sick?

We know most people get infected in their own home. A household member contracts the virus in the community and brings it into the house where sustained contact between household members leads to infection.

But where are people contracting the infection in the community? I regularly hear people worrying about grocery stores, bike rides, inconsiderate runners who are not wearing masks…. are these places of concern? Well, not really. Let me explain.

In order to get infected you need to get exposed to an infectious dose of the virus; based on infectious dose studies with MERS and SARS, it is estimated that as few as 1000 SARS-CoV2 viral particles are needed for an infection to take hold.

Does it really work that way? Or is it something like that on average 1 out of 1000 viral particles leads to an infection? Statistically, it works out the same, but humans don’t understand statistics that well, so they tend to turn statistical realities into moral yeses or nos.

Please note, this still needs to be determined experimentally, but we can use that number to demonstrate how infection can occur. Infection could occur, through 1000 viral particles you receive in one breath or from one eye-rub, or 100 viral particles inhaled with each breath over 10 breaths, or 10 viral particles with 100 breaths. Each of these situations can lead to an infection. …

Unlike sneezing and coughing which release huge amounts of viral material, the respiratory droplets released from breathing only contain low levels of virus. We don’t have a number for SARS-CoV2 yet, but we can use influenza as a guide. We know that a person infected with influenza releases about 3 – 20 virus RNA copies per minute of breathing.

Remember the formulae: Successful Infection = Exposure to Virus x Time

If a person coughs or sneezes, those 200,000,000 viral particles go everywhere. Some virus hangs in the air, some falls into surfaces, most falls to the ground. So if you are face-to-face with a person, having a conversation, and that person sneezes or coughs straight at you, it’s pretty easy to see how it is possible to inhale 1,000 virus particles and become infected.

But even if that cough or sneeze was not directed at you, some infected droplets–the smallest of small–can hang in the air for a few minutes, filling every corner of a modest sized room with infectious viral particles. All you have to do is enter that room within a few minutes of the cough/sneeze and take a few breaths and you have potentially received enough virus to establish an infection.

But with general breathing, 20 copies per minute into the environment, even if every virus ended up in your lungs, you would need 1000 copies divided by 20 copies per minute = 50 minutes.

I suspect a lot of people will take this as meaning that if you only spend 45 minutes, you are golden, rather than that 45 minutes is 90% as risky as 50 minutes.

But, who knows, maybe I’m misinterpreting.

In summary, I’m not hugely trustworthy of Bromage’s advice, but it’s exactly the kind of thing we need to argue over now.

 
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  1. OT – Jews are 5% of CV19 fatalities in France, if JTA are correct.

    https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/at-least-1300-french-jews-have-died-of-covid-19

    I think early in the pandemic they were 5% of UK fatalities too.

    “25 coronavirus victims in Britain are Jewish from a total of 465 as of Wednesday” (that was March 25)

    The Haredim don’t seem big on social distancing. I remember queuing with some Orthodox boys at a UK theme park and they weren’t big on respecting personal space.

  2. Tried to enter the Bromage site but Norton blocked it (“a known dangerous site”). Not clear what’s “dangerous” about it, though when Norton kicks in it’s usually because a site is a source of computer infection. Been there, done that. I’ll stick with the iSteve summary thank you.

    By the way, replace the “B” in “Bromage” with an “F” and you have “Fromage” (“cheese”). Whatever.

  3. If you are lucky enough to be able to visit with your Mom, maybe just throw her a kiss. She will understand. Moms are good that way.

    • Thanks: TomSchmidt
  4. Does it really work that way? Or is it something like that on average 1 out of 1000 viral particles leads to an infection? Statistically, it works out the same, but humans don’t understand statistics that well, so they tend to turn statistical realities into moral yeses or nos.

    The point is to minimise the amount of virus that attacks you at any point in time. Your immune system might be able to handle an attack by one particle, perhaps even 100, but being hit with 1,000 or more might be enough to enable the virus to overwhelm the immune system and rapidly replicate in far larger numbers than would be the case with one or even one hundred.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    , @Anonymous
    , @Lot
  5. dearieme says:

    Avoid hospitals, doctors’ surgeries and care homes. Don’t use the London tube.

    In public parks avoid people with telephoto lenses. And Prime Ministers.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8303051/Parkgoer-gives-Boris-Johnson-piece-mind-plans-Britain-work.html

    Get out onto the golf course but avoid the nineteenth hole.

    I wonder: if you are travelling in a taxi should you insist on the windows being open?

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
  6. I wonder how bad it is for the economy that many of the people not fooled by this virus scare are the type who were never fooled by restaurants charging 500 percent markups on food and 1000 percent markups on beer.

  7. My advice don’t spend money you likely don’t have. Mom’s tend to like a visit even if it is the mandated 6 feet apart. Since my mother always use to say “you’re born to die,” give her an illegal hug. Definitely take kids or grandkids if you have any. Sneezing is optional. I’m joking on the last part. Blame the humor on my mom, who thought Mother’s Day was just more manufactured consumerism. However bouquets were always welcomed by her. Too bad florists are shutdown, and one of those business likely doomed to the dustbin of history.

  8. Jack D says:

    The authorities have been shying away from giving advice because:

    1. They really don’t have a clue.

    2. They haven’t figured out which lies or spin would be most politically advantageous to them and their side. “Never let a crisis goes to waste” means that you have to first figure out how to leverage the crisis in your side’s favor.

    3. Telling the true might accidentally cause them to step into some political minefield. What if the best advice, based on the statistical data, is “avoid gay bars” or “avoid large gatherings of black people”? Better to not give any advice than to give “bigoted” advice. Not a lot of social distancing evident here:

    Memorial for jogger/burglar Arbery in Brunswick, GA.

    • Agree: theMann, kaganovitch
    • Disagree: Alice
  9. Anonymous[243] • Disclaimer says:

    “America shamefully didn’t even have enough masks for emergency room personnel after having them sucked up off our store shelves by the Chinese who mailed them back to China.”

    Funny, when I went to the Target Pharmacy in early February here in Central NJ, I asked the Pharmacists where masks were. She told me a Chinese woman had come and cleaned them out saying she was going to mail them to family in China.

  10. Just wear your mouth diaper everywhere, Sailer, so you feel swaddled and safespaced. Mouth diapers are ¡Science! magick.

    Any business that mandates customers wear mouth diapers will cease to exist. My local Wincos at first limited in-store customer numbers, making everyone else wait outside in a line stretching all the way around the building. That lasted maybe one week. Treating customers like shit is not a winning business strategy.

    People didn’t reason themselves into donning mouth diapers so they won’t be reasoned out of it. Mockery is our only tool – make people feel stupid for wearing a diaper on their face. It is our only hope.

    Coronahoax.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    , @Anon
  11. Hal P says:

    Hey Steve, final sentence has typo, “trustworthy” -> “trusting”

  12. @onetwothree

    I’m well aware that a restaurant meal costs triple that of homecooked (not 500% more) and the beer costs double (not 1,000% markup – where do you live!?). I like eating out because lifetime career chefs cook better than I can, and I enjoy the camaraderie of bars – you meet some interesting characters. Plus there’s billiards, cornhole, trivia contests, etc.

    When restaurants and bars reopen, it’ll be interesting to see the early adopters post-CoronaHoax. I predict mostly young, attractive people plus a few elderly boomers sporting mouth diapers.

    • Disagree: moshe
  13. Erik L says:

    Do we know the Chinese sent all the masks back to China or is this an anecdote or supposition? This is the only place I ever read this (which makes sense) so how do you know?

  14. Anon[195] • Disclaimer says:

    My wife and I recently made a purchase of something other than food, hand wipes, toilet paper, water, etc.

    A NordicTrack Commercial S22i Studio Cycle.

    We’re done going to the gym.

  15. George says:

    “went to three gay discos in one night.” I think cellphone tech could provide a way to limit that to 1 gay disco per night. Alternatively they could go back to the old bath house system and they could scrub down before entering and leaving. Maybe the bathhouses were a reaction to the 1918 flu just like Bauhaus design was?

  16. “There is a general problem that the economy largely thrives on people splurging to impress others.”

    That’s a strange way to put it. Under capitalism the consumer is in control directing where his money goes. The economy thrives producing whatever the consumer wants or needs. If some people want to impress other people, fine. Impressive goods and services will be produced. If people want vegan food, vegan food will be produced, etc.

    In a centrally planned economy smart people determine if people need to value more operas and fewer movies, and so they produce subsidized opera that satisfies the wants of the experts. The experts feel great knowing they have uplifted you.

  17. theMann says:

    Well First you have to target your measures to your audience.
    Since the mass of Americans comprise a collection of hysterical 6 year old girls in Big Boy bodies, target that.

    Along the way, let me make one supremely important, but completely ignored, fact:

    In order to get infected, your immune system has to let you down. That in turn depends upon nutrition, exercise, and sanitation. And hysterical six year old girls don’t manage any of that, do they?

    • Replies: @botazefa
  18. Jack D says:
    @Prester John

    Probably a false positive. I think that if you use a non-Microsoft browser and keep it (and your OS) updated to the latest security release you would probably have little to worry about. If you are using unpatched Internet Explorer 5 then all bets are off.

  19. J.Ross says:
    @Jack D

    >the authorities have been shying away from giving advice

    Is there a term for a laughable non-fact, which is not a malicious lie, and which exists to be the springboard for otherwise sensible talk?

  20. @Prester John

    By the way, replace the “B” in “Bromage” with an “F” and you have “Fromage” (“cheese”). Whatever.

    I think Bromage is a cheese enjoyed by groups of younger French guys.

  21. Erik L says:

    He is simplifying because (I haven’t done a literature search) because we don’t actually know. All of medicine is about probabilities; deterministic reasoning will lead you to the wrong conclusions more often than not. One viral particle could make you sick if everything lines up just so but the probability is so low (we assume) that you can round it to zero.

    If you inhaled one particle every day for 1000 days you would (almost definitely) not get it.

    If you inhaled 999 particles at once could you get it? Of course. It is a probability continuum. It doesn’t end at a round number.

    Is it that 1/1000 particles leads to infection and the other 999 end up getting lost? I don’t think we know the precise answer, but I would say almost definitely not. One particle could only infect a single cell, and I suspect the innate immune system could handle that. I think more simultaneous dose allows for more widespread (within a single person) infection which would allow it to overwhelm the innate immune system. There is even some suspicion that higher dose would lead to more severe infection.

    • Replies: @HA
  22. Anonymous[120] • Disclaimer says:

    Perhaps the most poignant story to come out of this whole shit storm is not just how much industrial capacity has been destroyed in the modern, ‘globalized’ west, but the sheer degree of industrial *demoralization* exhibited by the contemporary west.
    I mean, what does if say for a nation when it is seemingly constitutionally incapable of managing to stitch squares of low grade fabric together? How can it possibly fall any lower. I’m reminded of how the aboriginal Tasmanians, apparently, ‘forgot’ how to make fire in the space of a few thousand years’ isolation.
    What does this say about the modern west? What happens when a real, serious embargo is imposed by hostiles powers,? Will people, literally, have shirts on their backs?

  23. anon[974] • Disclaimer says:

    60+ have a lot of disposable income, disproportionately more than younger generations. They aren’t going out if they think there is a 1 in 50 chance they could die every time they go to a grocery story. You restore consumer confidence by 1) getting the spread under control the way New Zealand and Australia did so that there is only a 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 10,000 chance OR 2) coming up with a vaccine in a timely manner. The U.S. is so incompetent that I don’t see either happening soon. The economy will be bad for a long time, and a lot of people are going to die, maybe 2 million, by the end of 2021 + maybe 20 million serious hospitalizations and enormous healthcare costs coming along with that bankrupting huge numbers of people with the most disposable income.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  24. after having them sucked up off our store shelves by the Chinese who mailed them back to China

    You mean this gal having super happy fun time shop?

    (Waits for Godfrey Roberts or one of his wanker friends to show up to defend her honor)

  25. @YetAnotherAnon

    “The Haredim don’t seem big on social distancing.”

    Nerd Supremacist Lion of the Blogosphere said the same thing back in March.

    “The reason why the epicenter for the virus is the New York area has been because of religious Jews. They go to their religious services and spread it at the religious services. While the modern orthodox types who live in Westchester and Teaneck have suspended their religious services, the Hasidim are still gathering together in big crowds, ignoring the virus. Very bad. While luckily, the Hasidim have very little contact with non-Hasidim, when they get so sick that they have to go the hospital, they will overload the hospitals and infect hospital staff.”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200421171304/https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2020/03/18/the-correct-way-to-enforce-social-distancing/

    A month later, his site is gone from the internet.

    Coincidence I suppose.

    His Twitter is still going.

  26. @Prester John

    Clicked on link, went directly there, no issues according to Bitdefender installed which often warns of “dangerous” sites.

  27. eD says:

    Where can you take your mother out for brunch? South Dakota?

  28. BenKenobi says:

    Corona-Chan, do yo’ thang!

  29. We have now moved to the stage of worry about bad air. In Italian, mal aria. People who laugh at medieval people ought to stop.

    • Agree: botazefa
    • Replies: @moshe
    , @Achilles Wannabe
  30. I hadn’t heard the Korean event was gay bars. It was just reported in the Japanese press as clubs. Gay bars could explain why the guy went out with a high fever and diarrhea and no mask and went to three places–maybe he realized he was sick and was intentionally targeting gays.

    • Replies: @keuril
    , @Pericles
    , @anonymous
  31. IHTG says:
    @Almost Missouri

    ? It hasn’t gone anywhere.

  32. I love the name Bromage, a cross between bromance and hommage.

    I think people are slowly starting to believe their own lying eyes. I went to do my biweekly shopping at Vons yesterday, and yeah everybody was masked, but the place was a lot more lively than 3-6 weeks ago. And it seems like folks are not trying to avoid each other nearly as actively as they did a month ago. I think the panic is subsiding, but it will still take a few weeks or even months before the masks start to come off. Oh yeah, and the TP aisle was fully stocked once again.

  33. So, getting a happy ending massage is okay as long as you both wear masks. Good to know. Gloves not required, unless requested as a, ahem, “preference.”

    It’s time for massage parlors to reopen.

    And hey, for you quick guys, you don’t even have to wear a mask, because you won’t be in there long enough to get 1,000 viral particles. That’s ignorant fun with statistics, or as we say in the countryside, “satistics.” Fact is, getting just one particle can cause the illness if it happens to be the one in a thousand that does it. At least that’s how I’m interpreting Professor Sailer.

    Think of sperm. Go ahead, think of sperm. Thousands and thousands of them can surround an egg, but only one gets in. In an alternate scenario, just one little Woody Allen, leftover in her panties, could manage to swim and come up alongside her egg in another scenario, all alone, and still get in. You don’t need thousands to do the deed. You only need the right one and the right time and God’s plan.

    This morning, I waited in the Jeep while my wife shopped for groceries. I watched all the masked Americans in the parking lot, most of them carrying flowers for their mothers, and I thought to myself, “This is as unreal and movie-like as 9-11. This is not America.” Everybody was wearing a “mouth diaper,” a mask. Hey, I wear my N-95 when I shop, and my wife wore hers, soon to be sterilized in the oven. But this is unreal.

    The costs of this far outweigh the benefits, even at the far end of death estimates.

    If this had happened in 1967, when my family and I and lots of people we knew caught the Hong Kong Flu, there would have been no shutdown and no masks in America. I remember that. My whole family and I caught it and got very sick. So did lots of people we knew. America did not shut down, and probably very few people lost their jobs, businesses, livelihoods and freedom. It was a news story, big enough that even I remember it from age seven, but our fathers still went to work and we still went to school, unless we were sick. I bet a lot of people died too.

    Today, my wife and I personally know about just five people who have contracted this coronavirus — and we live a commute away from the New York City, Third World Shithole epicenter. We don’t know of anyone who knows anyone who has died from this.

    I am curious: How many here know someone who has died from this? How many people do you know who caught it? Anyone go to a hospital?

  34. @dearieme

    In public parks avoid people with telephoto lenses.

    Easier said than done, because you don’t think you’re that close to them … but you are! Light beams are super compounding spreaders.

  35. Carol says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Lion is still there. He just stopped posting as much and turned off comments. He’s got a new post in fact.

  36. Corvinus says:

    “The Experts haven’t offered a lot of practical hands-on disinterested advice about what it relatively safe and what is relatively risky.”

    According to Who/Whom?

    “They spent all of February and March lying to the public…”

    The shot across the bow. This is how you get back the crowd who has been questioning your insistence that Covid-19 is NOT a hoax. The word “lying” only reinforces to your fanbois and fangirlz that the Establishment and the Deep State ought not to be trusted at all in any matter, especially health officials in their quest to contain this virus.

    Perhaps you should lend your Expert Pattern Recognition Skills to the governor of California, at worst, or to the Trump Administration, at best? Be a patriot.

    “Granted, I understand why they lied: America shamefully didn’t even have enough masks for emergency room personnel after having them sucked up off our store shelves by the Chinese who mailed them back to China.”

    (Sigh), you’re not telling the entire story. Assuredly, that action occurred (Chinese-Americans sending back supplies to their relatives in China). Although, Mr. Sailer, have you ever supplied any statistics regarding how many were involved and the quantity of those masks Shanghai’ed out of our nation?

    It would be nice for Trump to take ownership for his own screw-ups.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/04/19/report-americans-at-world-health-organization-told-trump-administration-about-coronavirus-late-last-year/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    It would be nice if our own corporations were not profiting while our own people #DieForTheDow.

    https://theintercept.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-medical-supplies-export

    It would be nice if Trump did not have the federal government compete with state governments for those limited domestic supplies.

    https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2020/03/26/charlie-baker-trump-administration-medical-supplies

    “But, who knows, maybe I’m misinterpreting.”

    Yes, you probably are.

    Finally, consumer confidence over Trump to lead us out of the financial darkness took yet another hit. The White House is getting hit good and hard with COVID-19.

    Trump’s Personal Valet
    Pence’s Press Secretary
    Ivanka Trump’s Personal Assistant
    34 Secret Service Agents

    But it’s just the flu, man! LOL.

  37. Corvinus says:
    @Almost Missouri

    “A month later, his site is gone from the internet.”

    No, it’s not gone. It’s alive and kicking.

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/

  38. I agree. I was trying to explain this to my daughter recently. She’s 36, and peeved because she had to postpone her wedding and may not have children. I suggested she get a job at Facebook or Netflix, where they offer to freeze a woman’s eggs so they can keep working.

    She got emotional and I regrettably snapped, telling her that everyone is affected by this. Specifically, I wouldn’t be able to take her mother to Hamilton this year for her birthday, and with fewer Chinese and Russian investors, my real estate portfolio was down.

    It’s like young people today can’t focus on the important things, like getting a tax-favored inheritance.

  39. There is a general problem that the economy largely thrives on people splurging to impress others.

    No, Steve, it doesn’t. Economic wealth comes from production, not consumption. The Zimbabwe government thought printing money and spending it would magically make wealth appear. It didn’t. We’re richer than Zimbabwe not because we spend more money, but because we can produce the things we want to spend money on. What you should say is that:

    People want to use a lot of economic resources in order to impress others.

    Phrased that way, you realize it isn’t necessarily a bad thing if people want to stop doing that.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    , @Alden
  40. moshe says:

    Are you saying that a minute of breathing would only release 3-20 copies of the virus while once sneeze releases 200,000 copies?

    Side question: It’s intuitively obvious that aside for being bad for everyone’s mental health, wearing a mask is potentially bad for your physical health. It requires no Studies or Experts to know this. But studies and experts seem to be more in vogue with the mask-loving set so I’m surprised that I haven’t come across serious studies or experts warning about the health dangers of wearing a mask. Methinks mask lubbers ought to be hit over the head with heavy printouts of them.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Kratoklastes
    , @AnotherDad
  41. Anon[209] • Disclaimer says:

    Gays went around spreading AIDS back when AIDS was not a treatable disease. Considering that AIDS killed people almost 100% of the time, they’re not going to bother to take precautions for Covid-19. The two main groups of people dying off from Covid are old people and minorities, and gays think both these groups hate their guts. They’re not going to protect them.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  42. @Almost Missouri

    He stopped blogging for a while because many of his commenters were corona-denying morons. He said so, unlike some bloggers who prefer to just look the other way. Now he’s back and has banned those morons.

  43. Choirs have lists of members.

    Including the invisible one. Which is growing.

    I suspect a lot of people will take this as meaning that if you only spend 45 minutes, you are golden, rather than that 45 minutes is 90% as risky as 50 minutes.

    Coronavirus: Premier League could play halves less than 45 minutes – PFA chief

    …when it turned out a recent super-spreader went to three gay discos in one night.

    As in the (other) Ferguson effect, there is a lot more erotica in these stories than is let on.

    Bing Liu: Chinese-born professor dies in US murder-suicide

    Computational Biologist Bing Liu Dies in Suspected Murder

  44. JimB says:

    What if covid-19 is just blowing around in the wind on soot particles? Then there’s no practical way to avoid infection since you can’t stop interacting with the earth’s atmosphere. And masks allow you to breath 5% of ambient particulate matter.

    • Replies: @vhrm
    , @Jonathan Mason
  45. Anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:

    Do UVC air purifiers help? For smaller spaces only, or does it scale up to larger spaces with multiple purifiers?

  46. @YetAnotherAnon

    We shouldn’t lump the entire Jewish community in with the Orthodox, who are nice, patriotic people themselves.

    When I was in Palm Springs in February, I noticed turnout seemed down. At the time, I figured it was because of the whole Epstein brouhaha, but it could have been social distancing as well.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  47. @Buzz Mohawk

    I watched all the masked Americans in the parking lot, most of them carrying flowers for their mothers, and I thought to myself, “This is as unreal and movie-like as 9-11. This is not America.

    I always preferred this and “Wild Is The Wind” to the overrated “Heroes”.

  48. @onetwothree

    There looks to be some overlap between corona deniers and people who talk these anti-consumerist talks. Then corona hits and they’re like:

    Oh noes, I can’t take that trip to Florida until next year. Oh noes, I face inconvenience in acquiring my favorite double-decker obesity sandwich. Oh noes, I can’t trade in my car for the latest model because the car dealership is shut down. Oh noes, I can’t go buy the latest gadget at the Apple store, then I looked on Amazon.com and I have to wait two weeks for shipping.

    And then they go on about how everyone will be going bankrupt and starving to death. What about that “savings” thing you’ve been preaching about for the last decade? What about “personal responsibility?” It all goes out the window. Pathetic.

  49. ic1000 says:

    > America shamefully didn’t even have enough masks for emergency room personnel after having them sucked up off our store shelves by the Chinese who mailed them back to China.

    No. As you’ve noted elsewhere, America shamefully didn’t even have enough masks because production is outsourced (“Cheap! You buy now!”) and because the stockpiles for SARS/flu/MERS contingencies turned out not to exist.

    How many tens of millions of masks would have been needed to satisfy hospital etc. demand, versus how many tens of thousands were mailed back to China? I’d imagine “mailed back to China” is music to Chamber of Commerce ears.

    .

    Re: Korean events, it was once again amusing to skim the respectable press before visiting iSteve. The WaPo and NBC had already told me about nightclubs, but somehow forgot the gay modifier. Probably serves me right for not reading all the way to the end, given the ascendancy of upside-down journalism.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  50. @The Alarmist

    But wouldn’t it perhaps be useful to get exposed to a low dose of particles? Just enough to train your immune system to attack the Covid RNA code, but not enough to result in out of control infection.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @AnotherDad
  51. How to Boost Consumer Confidence

    Stay safe. This is not the way to do it:

    Woman killed by alligator in SC was doing homeowner’s nails

  52. anon[225] • Disclaimer says:

    the economy largely thrives on people splurging to impress others

    When I went to school, they were teaching economy is about satisfying people’s needs for goods and services. Obviously, I have not kept up with the latest theories.

    • Agree: Kyle
    • Replies: @vhrm
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
  53. @Corvinus

    But it’s just the flu, man! LOL.

    It’s not the flu, dude … it’s just a wicked variant of one of the most common strains of cold virus.

  54. JMcG says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Well, my elderly Aunt just died from it in a nursing home here. Pretty much the modal victim. Already bedridden and affected with dementia. I hate the masks. But I kind of like the bandanas worn Dalton gang style. Nothing more American than that.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @moshe
  55. @Reg Cæsar

    “I guess I won’t do this again.”

    Truer last words were never spoken.

  56. J.Ross says:

    Dating outside your race? Well, Satan might have something to say about that.
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-man-stabbed-pregnant-wife-then-drove-off-crashed-tossed-1-year-old-off-cliff-police-say
    >stabs estranged wife
    >who is pregnant
    >at a church
    >throws baby off a cliff
    >stabs third party who attempted to intervene

    • Thanks: Inverness
  57. res says:
    @Almost Missouri

    I agree with Corvinus for once. Will wonders never cease?

    Not only is his site still around, that specific post is with the text you quoted still present.
    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2020/03/18/the-correct-way-to-enforce-social-distancing/

    Is it possible his site got placed on a blacklist (because of that post?) which affects you?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  58. @Hypnotoad666

    Yep. One of the unintended consequences of the lockdown will be a spread of a number of illnesses from pathogens you ordinarily pick up in day to day life which would ordinarily keep your immune system on its toes.

  59. I use the analogy of being near a chain-smoker.
    If you walk past him you might inhale a big puff of smoke. If you are in a car or other enclosed space with him you’ll breath smoke with every breath, for the duration.

  60. J.Ross says:
    @Almost Missouri

    His comment section is/was awesome. I can picture Joan Donovan fearing that as much as the Lion.

  61. @res

    Hmmm … still blocked for me.

    Never had that problem before outside the office.

    I’ll try another on-ramp.

  62. U. Ranus says:

    Consumers can consume or save. Now, although people disagree on whether the milquetoast virus was an ebola marburg bulbonic plague event, even the saner side of that divide can’t deny that the other side is liable to panic again. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior—it’s science!

    Doesn’t that mean everybody will want to save, not consume?

    Not that there’s anything wrong about it. Now that we’ve ruined half of everything anyway, why not turn some lemons into lemonade and starve a few of our parasites?

  63. utu says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    “If this had happened in 1967, when my family and I and lots of people we knew caught the Hong Kong Flu, there would have been no shutdown and no masks in America. I remember that. ” – It was October 1968 the epidemic began in the US and peaked in Dec/Jan. 100,000 people died w/o masks and w/o lockdowns. As of today 80,000 people died with masks and with lockdowns.

    Origin and progress of the 1968-69 Hong Kong influenza epidemic
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2427756/?page=4

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu
    The CDC estimated that about 100,000 people died in the U.S; most excess deaths were in those 65 and older. However, fewer people died during this pandemic than in previous pandemics for several reasons:

    1. Some immunity against the N2 flu virus may have been retained in populations struck by the Asian Flu strains which had been circulating since 1957;

    2. The pandemic did not gain momentum until near the winter school holidays, thus limiting the infection spreading;

    3. Improved medical care gave vital support to the very ill;

    4. The availability of antibiotics that were more effective against secondary bacterial infections.

    For this pandemic, there were two geographically distinct mortality patterns. In North America (the United States and Canada), the first pandemic season (1968/69) was more severe than the second (1969/70). In the “smoldering” pattern seen in Europe and Asia (England, France, Japan, and Australia), the second pandemic season was two to five times more severe than the first.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  64. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Jack D is at it again. Consider this:

    What if the best advice, based on the statistical data, is “avoid orthodox funerals” or “avoid large gatherings of jewish people”? Better to not give any advice than to give “bigoted” advice. Not a lot of social distancing evident here:

    https://twitter.com/ReuvenBlau/status/1255290725744418816/photo/1

    Jack D get out of here.

  65. I am an avid skier. Historically, season tickets are cheaper the earlier in the season you buy them. Today is the last day of the cheapest tickets, and no mountain has even fully committed to the existence of a 20/21 season.
    One pass company, IKON (which isn’t a mountain but rather a rewholesaler or lift tickets) has said that if the 20/21 season doesn’t happen you get a credit towards 21/22, and the sales of the IKON pass are only slightly down from last year (which is a massively huge showing, given the times)
    Perhaps this “credit to the future” business model is the one to follow going forwards?

  66. Mr. Anon says:

    They spent all of February and March lying to the public about how it wouldn’t help to wear a mask and how the real danger was not washing your hands enough. Granted, I understand why they lied:

    You’re just assuming that was the reason they said masks wouldn’t help. It may be true. Then again, maybe they are just incompetent. There isn’t much evidence that Fauci was especially concerned about Corona. Or even that he’s really on the ball.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/

    Fauci recalled how a nurse who was infected with Ebola took a flight to Ohio because she was asymptomatic and not at risk of infecting anyone. People everywhere suddenly thought all planes were unsafe.

    “I was getting calls from people in Sacramento saying, ‘Can I get on an airplane to go to Seattle?’” Fauci said. “Like, what? What does that got to do with anything?”

    He was talking about Ebola, but obviously extrapolating this to the current Corona pandemic. Yeah, afterall, what’s air travel got to do with the global spread of a virulent respiratory disease? Perhaps, much like Trump himself, Fauci is just the kind of guy who believes whatever he heard from the last person he talked to.

    The current administration spin, and the official spin of much of the public health establishment in this country I suppose, is that they didn’t know the virus could be passed person-to-person because they Chinese lied about it. Huh? They did know that it was a respiratory disease by that time. What viral respiratory disease is not spread person-to-person.

    • Replies: @botazefa
  67. ic1000 says:

    Steve, thanks for the link and commentary. Erin Bromage looks legit, a UMass biology prof who publishes on immunology in fish, close enough to mammals to be relevant. Here is his university home page.

    His commentary is sensible, including the linked post “The Risks” and “What Does Summer Look Like?”, originally posted on 4/24.

    In “The Risks,” he presents a diagram showing respiratory tract viral shedding, binned by age. I haven’t seen similar data. I can’t copy-paste it here; it’s Figure 2 from this preprint dated 4/30/20:

    “An analysis of SARS-CoV-2 viral load by patient age” by TC Jones, B Mühlemann et al. Corresponding author Christian Drosten is at Charité-Universitätsmedizin in Berlin. Curiously, the preprint is not available on medRxiv.org; the PDF can be downloaded from the authors’ home institution.

    Jones et al. addresses a key question, showing that children and young adults shed virus in about the same way that older people do. For all age groups, what jumps out is the very broad person-to-person variability in shedding. Some people had 1,000 virus particles per [unit of respiratory secretion tested], while others had over 10,000,000,000 viruses/unit.

    Certain infected people are hardly any risk to others, while others are indeed super-spreaders. Without widespread testing, there’s no way of telling who is who.

    • Thanks: Inverness, Keypusher
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  68. Mr. Anon says:
    @Corvinus

    Finally, consumer confidence over Trump to lead us out of the financial darkness took yet another hit. The White House is getting hit good and hard with COVID-19.

    Trump’s Personal Valet
    Pence’s Press Secretary
    Ivanka Trump’s Personal Assistant
    34 Secret Service Agents

    They do not “have COVID-19”. They tested positive for SARS-COV-2. Having the virus is not the same as having the disease, you idiot. They might develop COVID-19. They might not. Lots of people get infected with the virus without any manifestation of the disease.

    As usual, you are wrong. This is expected, given that you are stupid.

    • LOL: Clyde
    • Replies: @Keypusher
  69. Mark G. says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I am curious: How many here know someone who has died from this? How many people do you know who caught it?

    I don’t know anyone who has caught the coronavirus or died from it. I also don’t remember anyone having or passing away from the 1968 Hong Kong flu. I don’t remember a lot of the other kids not showing up at school then but I do have a vague impression that more kids in my classes were off then.

    This all may have been due to my particular circumstances. Then and now I live a middle class suburban existence in Indiana and don’t know many people over 65 years old. If I lived in a nursing home or a large coastal city like New York or, even worse, lived in a nursing home in New York I would know people who have it. Part of the panic may be because the national mainstream media is centered in large cities like New York so they have a distorted view of how serious this actually is. They assume the country as a whole reflects what they are seeing up close.

  70. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:

    They spent all of February and March lying to the public about how it wouldn’t help to wear a mask

    That isn’t a lie. There is little scientific evidence that wearing a mask in public protects the wearer.

    and how the real danger was not washing your hands enough.

    Where’s the lie?

    This is largely spread by respiration indoors.

    Is this established and noncontroversial? A citation would be appropriate.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  71. SafeNow says:

    Dr. Bromage is apparently a veterinarian; checkout the bio at the end of the article. Once I was having a key made by a locksmith, and I noticed that he was using the same kind of machine that the guy at the hardware store uses. I told him that, and asked, why is it that a hardware-store-made key often fits the lock poorly, whereas when he makes a key, it always works perfectly. He replied “You can give me a dental drill, but that doesn’t make me a dentist.”

  72. Mike Tre says:

    You’re still going on about solutions to problems that don’t exist. How long should my haircut take? What color should I dye this belly button lint?

  73. eD says:

    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/

    Sites up but posting less frequently and comments are closed.

    The blogger went all in on pro-panic or pro-lockdown and is less tolerant of dissenting views than Steve. Also his opinions are sort of all over the place, he thinks that both Jesus (Jesus as man, not Jesus as God) and climate change are hoaxes but is completely hardline in favor of the media narratives on the plague and scary Muslims out to get us. He is very smart but not that analytical in how his brain works.

  74. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Your immune system might be able to handle an attack by one particle, perhaps even 100, but being hit with 1,000 or more might be enough to enable the virus to overwhelm the immune system and rapidly replicate

    Is this really how it works?

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  75. @Buzz Mohawk

    I am curious: How many here know someone who has died from this? How many people do you know who caught it? Anyone go to a hospital?

    While I highly doubt my experience is typical of the average American, I personally know 7 guys under 60(none under 45) who died of Covid. By “know” I mean I would say hello if I met them on the street. Two of them were good friends. If you count over 70 deaths in which Covid is indicated but not certain, I knew twice as many. I should note that by Haredi standards, I’m on the autistic side of the Sociability curve, so I doubt my experience is untypical for the Haredi community.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    , @Anonymous
  76. J.Ross says:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html
    Perhaps the best line Gil-Scott Heron came up with was “America leads the world in shock.” Turns out that weakening your immune system is dumb: “no one could have foreseen.” Prager is going to be on this, he’s been all over the pointless stupidity of the lockdown. But at least we ended the Trump economy and took away everyone’s dignity.

  77. SFG says:
    @Almost Missouri

    He’s still up.

    The site is a curiosity of the pre-woke Internet–it was linked to a few manosphere sites due to early connections to Roissy (I think Roissy was a big commenter on the earlier version, Half Sigma.) Heartiste had him on the blogroll shortly before he was taken down.

    The Lion was basically Dark Enlightenment (he was a node on the early maps) but, being Jewish, couldn’t make the move to alt-right, and wound up with a blog that even Ron Unz described as ‘obscure’.

    I used to spend a lot of time on there, but he got obsessed with complaining about Sarah Palin being prole and I got bored. He did call the coronavirus pretty early.

    I still always thought he deserved better than he got.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  78. J.Ross says:

    Scared Child Art enthusiast John Podesta admitted in now released testimony that Hillary got the Democratic Party itself to pay for half the cost of the fake dossier launching the biggest scandal in American political history.
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/now-know-john-podesta-admits-testimony-dnc-hillary-campaign-split-cost-bogus-trump-russia-dossier-launched-coup/

    • Replies: @Polynikes
  79. Anon[421] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve been calculating the recent rate of Covid-19 case increase in my state by ethnicity. The results are very revealing. (Numbers are rounded).

    Blacks-35%
    Hispanics-22%
    Asian-18%
    Whites-14%
    American Indian-11%

    This is startling when you consider that my state barely has any blacks or Asians at all, and that the number of Hispanics is also low. Our largest ethnic group is American Indian. My state is 84% non-Hispanic white. Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are 75% of all new cases in my very white state. This is a massive statistical skew.

    Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians added together are only about 7% of my state’s population total.

    • Replies: @prosa123
  80. Bleuteaux says:
    @kaganovitch

    Sorry for your losses. Can you tell us anything any more about their background, lifestyles, general health?

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  81. @ic1000

    ” As you’ve noted elsewhere, America shamefully didn’t even have enough masks because production is outsourced (“Cheap! You buy now!”) and because the stockpiles for SARS/flu/MERS contingencies turned out not to exist.”

    Amazingly, Bloomberg have a piece (by Dan Wang, a “Beijing-based technology analyst”) saying that perhaps outsourcing everything is a bad idea after all.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-07/why-american-manufacturing-can-t-handle-the-coronavirus

    Among the many uncomfortable truths revealed by the coronavirus pandemic is, apparently, this: America can’t build anymore. Faced with an unprecedented emergency, U.S. factories have struggled to make even relatively simple products such as swabs, masks and protective gear.

    In a widely circulated recent essay, Silicon Valley luminary Marc Andreessen blamed America’s inability to build on inertia and a failure of will. There’s more to it than that. Technology is essentially three things: tools; explicit instructions; and process knowledge, which can also be described as tacit knowledge or technical experience.

    In a typical production process, there are a million-and-one things that can’t be written down. Process knowledge is thus represented by an experienced workforce, which circulates best practices and figures out new ways of doing things. These workers manifest in industrial clusters, or what economist Brad DeLong calls “communities of engineering practice”.

    What the U.S. really needs to do is reconstitute its communities of engineering practice. That will require treating manufacturing work, even in low-margin goods, as fundamentally valuable. Technological sophisticates in Silicon Valley would be wise to drop their dismissive attitude towards manufacturing as a “commoditized” activity and treat it as being as valuable as R&D work. And corporate America should start viewing workers not purely as costs to be slashed, but as practitioners keeping alive knowledge essential to the production process.”

    The British engineer James Dyson made the same point as far back as 2004, exlaining why manufacturing was vital, and why he was moving it to Malaysia.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2004/12_december/09/dyson.shtml

    But the biggest problem was that we had no local suppliers. Our British three-pin plugs were made in Malaysia. Our polycarbonate plastics came from Korea. Our electronics came from Taiwan. It was a logistical nightmare. We needed our suppliers on our doorstep so that we could drive them to improve their quality and keep pace with technology.

    In the 1970s, when I was developing the Ballbarrow, I needed some bent metal tubing. I got in my car and went to Birmingham. In the space of a few streets, I found workshops and suppliers who between them could provide the tubing, cut it, bend it and coat it. It was an extraordinarily vital environment. And it was absolutely essential to the small engineering entrepreneur.

    You might ask what happened to these British suppliers and subcontractors? Quite simply: we drove them out of existence.

    In Malaysia, the biggest benefit has been that all our suppliers are within ten miles of the factory.

    We must take steps now. In ten years time (i.e. in 2014 – YAA) China, with its mantra of employment over profit, will not only be the workshop of the world, it will be the technological superpower.

    And what will happen to us? We will be surrounded by products that we have not made. That’s something that is already culturally destructive. Ultimately we will be at the mercy of the buying habits of Chinese shoppers.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  82. utu says:
    @moshe

    “It requires no Studies or Experts to know this. ” – It requires no experts to know that wearing a mask reduces the probability of you being infected and you infecting others. But some experts did some studies:

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.06.20055624v1.full.pdf
    “Hypothetical mask adoption scenarios, for Washington and New York state, suggest that immediate near universal (80%) adoption of moderately (50%) effective masks could prevent on the order of 17–45% of projected deaths over two months in New York, while decreasing the peak daily death rate by 34–58%, ab- sent other changes in epidemic dynamics. Even very weak masks (20% effective) can still be useful if the underlying transmission rate is relatively low or decreasing: In Washington, where baseline transmission is much less intense, 80% adoption of such masks could reduce mortality by 24–65% (and peak deaths 15–69%), compared to 2–9% mortality reduction in New York (peak death reduction 9–18%).”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-japan-shows-masks-help-slow-spread-covid-19/
    A Lesson from Japan’s Fight against Coronavirus: Masks Help

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Disagree: botazefa
  83. @SFG

    “I still always thought he deserved better than he got.”

    What possessed him to go for the ridiculous name change? Lion Of The Blogosphere! It’s as if Steve decided one day he was Emperor Of The Internet. Or was there an in-joke I missed?

    • Replies: @SFG
  84. Polynikes says:
    @eD

    Tough to save face when you called your audience idiots (what’s that say about the type of content he puts out?) and then ended up largely wrong. Kind of have to ease back into after that, I guess.

  85. @eD

    Don’t forget he also agrees with the media narrative on this “round Earth” theory.

    I knew about this long before the media. Just because you first heard about it from CNN doesn’t mean it originates there.

  86. Polynikes says:
    @J.Ross

    A Nixon-esque scandal that the MSM doesn’t want any part of. At this point the coup isn’t against the President but the half the country they hate.

  87. FPD72 says:
    @Corvinus

    I haven’t read any of your links but the Forbes article. NOT ONE NAMED SOURCE. Yeah, just like all of the anonymous sources who for the past four years have assured us that there was plenty of evidence concerning Trump collusion with the Russians.

    Fact: Both Fouci and the head of the CDC were assuring the public well into February that the virus was not a major concern. They were on the record and they had the President’s ear.

    Let’s see the written reports from December by the American WHO guys. Until those are produced and available to the public, I’m giving the Forbes article zero credibility. I

  88. moshe says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    I tried to hit “AGREE” on your previous comment but the algorithm didn’t allow it.

    Your previous comment with the Saganish message was good but your assumptions regarding age are quite wrong. At least everywhere that I’m familiar with.

    There are fewer elderly than there are youngerly. By nature the elderly are far less energetic than the youngerly. The elderly actually have something to fear while the young do not.

    And despite all of that, the young are acting like pussies. Staying indoors. Wahwah’ing at rhose who won’t. And LLLLLoving the mask regime.

    I’m neither as young as you (I assume) or as old as Steve (I know) and I have completely and entirely ignores the lockdown with lots of video evidence to prove it. And a solid half of the non-working fellow lockdown/mask ignorers were decades older than me.

    “Boomers” are not rhe problem. Millennial Safespacers are. They LLLLLove Big Brother. Boomers may be mislead or rightfully concerned about their parents health. Safespacers are the dystopian know-nothing robot army of name and shamers who want to see the whold world function like a well run anthill.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes, dfordoom
  89. vhrm says:
    @JimB

    What if covid-19 is just blowing around in the wind on soot particles? Then there’s no practical way to avoid infection since you can’t stop interacting with the earth’s atmosphere. And masks allow you to breath 5% of ambient particulate matter.

    It IS blowing around in the wind. They don’t have to be on soot particles. They just float around as aerosols and droplet nuclei all by themselves:
    Someone coughs or sneezes, some of those droplets float for a bit and dry out and float some more.

    BUT fortunately for us this virus appears to break down in minutes to hours in the air and there’s a lot of air out there.

    That’s why transmission outside seems to happen a lot less. (at least that’s the theory)

  90. @Anonymous

    Wholeheartedly agree. If you don’t use it, you lose it.

    • Agree: Coemgen
  91. @Anon

    “We’re done going to the gym.”

    No, you will return to the gym. Exercising among other people is motivating and inspiring. By yourself, at home, you will feel like you’re squandering life’s every precious moment, but around others doing the same literally-going-nowhere cardio exercises, it doesn’t feel so stupid. Just don a mouth diaper and you will feel swaddled and safespaced. Like an infant. Remember to change your diaper daily – those things get filthy fast.

    CoronaHoax.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  92. vhrm says:
    @anon

    Here’s a continuing education course to update you: “Don’t Date Robots!”

    It’s more narrowly construed than Steve’s statement, but same analysis.

  93. Anon[421] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Muslim Students Threaten to Kill Prof for Suggesting Islam Is Violent, Thus Proving His Point.

    https://pjmedia.com/culture/robert-spencer/2020/05/08/arizona-muslim-students-threaten-to-kill-prof-for-suggesting-islam-is-violent-n389324

    Whatever happened to arresting students who make death threats? They should be arrested, charged, and thrown in jail. You can’t run an educational institution when the students threaten the lives of the professors.

    Ilhan Omar caught trying to steal from a charity:

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/sociopath-crooked-ilhan-omar-just-got-caught-raising-money-minnesota-food-store-pocketing-cash/

    President of Tanzania sent WHO samples from a goat, a papaya, and a pheasant, and they all come back positive from Covid-19. President not pleased, thinks WHO is a pack of liars and that their figures are made up.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-sent-them-samples-goat-papaya-pheasant-tanzanian-president-catches-who-epic-lie

    I find it hard to believe that you could get a positive sample from a papaya.

  94. Off topic: I just found out that on facebook I couldn’t send a link to a benign unz.com article to my brother through private chat (harmful content) but can send links from the communist party usa, israeli defense forces and the jewish defense league. I have generally tried to keep my politics off of facebook so I hadn’t encountered this before. It’s even worse than twitter. It seems like the ADL decides what’s acceptable and what is not. Is Peter Thiel still associated with facebook or was he run off by the SJWs/YKWs?

  95. @Old and Grumpy

    Since my mother always use to say…

    “Used to.” But at least your error is a refreshing break from the pandemic “didn’t used to”.

    Homophonic misspellings are so common, when people “should of” been taught to distinguish them in grade school. Not that it matters anymore– our great-grandchildren will be speaking Spanish, in which spelling is more consistent.

  96. HA says:
    @Erik L

    “He is simplifying because (I haven’t done a literature search) because we don’t actually know….If you inhaled 999 particles at once could you get it? Of course. It is a probability continuum. It doesn’t end at a round number.”

    Indeed. Look at any of the unused baseball fields in your city and note the dandelions currently springing up. Some spots in the exact same field will have a crop large enough to fill a salad bowl. Some will have none, even though many or at least a few dandelion seeds landed there and even though the temperature and rainfall for that entire field was likely uniform.

    If you get hit with a virus particle early in the morning, the probability of getting infected is not going to be the same as it is late in the evening when you’re tired. It’s going to be different after a meal, or running a marathon, or if it’s cold that day, or if you’re suffering from hay fever. As with any of those dandelions, a countless number of things will need to line up in order for that seed to get lucky and surmount all the barriers and predators in its way.

    In general, the more paricles you inhale, the more likely you are to get sick. But the hygiene hypothesis is now more than just a hypothesis, so avoiding exposure to all pathogens is not a good idea either. No one yet knows — and probably never will know — what the ideal middle ground is, given all the different variables involved.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  97. @Simon Tugmutton

    Yes, but with a 58-year-old woman, Darwin is irrelevant. Unless her boyfriend takes the opportunity to find someone else, younger.

  98. GermanReader2 [AKA "GermanReader2_new"] says:
    @Erik L

    A German blogger I read mentioned in late January that he got a lot of mails by pharmacists etc. Claiming that Chinese people were buying masks, gloves etc. En Masse and sending them back to China. Ever since the baby formula scandal in 2008 Chinese people have been buying baby formula all over Europe and sending it back to China, which has caused acute shortages for some time (you still cannot buy more than 3 packs of baby formula at once in Germany). The only question that is still being debated here is whether this was a private enterprise or whether the Chinese government was involved.

  99. moshe says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for picking my interest about Tasmania. it sounded like you were saying that they didn’t have fire, which just sounded astounding to me and something that I have to look up. It turns out that they did have fire but seem to have had to preserve it from when (I assume) nature offered it as, like you said, they didn’t appear to have the tools to make it on their own.

    My curiosity blessed me with this article. It’s from a while back and therefore lacking information from the genetic revolution but it’s quite fascinating. Supposedly even the coastal Tasmanians did not eat fish! What a fascinating perspective to see the world through! I haven’t finished the article but I assume that they did eat animal flesh. Do we know of any primitive societies that were entirely herbavire and therefore saw animal-eating as something similar to cannibalism?

    My love for anthropology is partly for the pleasure of seeing parts of the world in a new way. Living in Jordan for instance made me comfortable with polygamy. Journeying in Jamaica made me rethink drugs, alcohol and sex (it was a good trip). Living in Jerusalem made me comfortable with poverty.

    Vegetarians and Vegans in the West tend to annoy me even with their very existence though I acknowledge the logic of their perspective that eating animals is cruel. Were there some culture that genuinely and always viewed the animal world that way without any knowledge that other homosapiens eat meat they certainly don’t exist in their innocence any more but the fact of their existence would spur my mind into daydreams about their perspective that I woulr enjoy.

    I assume however that no such primitive culture is known to have existed. I mean some may have gone meat-hungry for a while but due to a lack of ability rather than an inability to imagine eating a fellow living thing. Any evidence to the contrary?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  100. Kyle says:

    “ This is largely spread by respiration indoors.”

    If that’s the case then shouldn’t we be wearing masks and sunglasses indoors? Isn’t it vital fo cover up your eyes from incoming projectile saliva? And we should always be washing our hands.

  101. vhrm says:

    Steve, there’s a bit of a “The beatings will continue until morale improves” aspect to your post.

    The top 4 Ways to Restore the Economy,

    #1 Revoke government ordered and Police enforced lockdown and shutdown.

    #2 see #1

    #3 see #1

    #4 Replace the media panic reel with “The Sweeden Story”

    That will fix 90+% of the issue and nothing else matters without getting Newsom’s and Fauci’s boots off of our throats.

    As to masks, they’re good, and people can wear them if they want, but they should only be mandatory
    when the hospitals are being overwhelmed.

    Otherwise, we still have to let _this_ virus burn on through so that we reach herd resistance among the generally healthy 90% which will allow the vulnerable 10% to rejoin us as well.

    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
  102. The economy will remain in bad shape until consumers feel more confident that …

    I think several things have to happen, but first I curse that damned joke! I cannot write but first without mentally finishing with Bunga Bunga. I digress.

    There are many things that have to happen to “get back to normal.” but first, these need to happen:

    1) The food supply chains have to be proven Covid proof. Apparently there is a problem getting meat to grocers due to kinks in the middle of the food processing chain. Farmers and ranchers are still raising pig, chickens and turkeys, and grocers and distributors have staff to place the processed meat in the coolers, but meat packing houses are closing due to worker illness. Who wants to buy meat from XYZ when six of their workers have died from Covid19?

    As an aside, pigs, chickens and turkeys have to be processed to prevent overcrowding. Ranchers can store cattle on the range. Ranchers will suffer from loss of income but pig farmers have to pay the extra expense of disposal. Perhaps do it yourself butcher emporiums are the answer?

    2) The processes by which expendable necessities (vegetables, toilet paper, toothpast, soap, gasoline) are produced and delivered need to be proven Covid proof.

    It does no good to open up restaurants if the food supply is shaky. Testing equipment and healthcare resources need to be directed towards the necessary industries first. Then we can worry about restaurants and axe throwing emporiums.

    A local expert told me the end game for this country is universal immunity, either through recovery (ideal for young people in essential industries) or vaccines. It does not matter how many assurances the government gives me that it is safe to mingle again; I’ll wait for the vaccine.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  103. Kyle says:
    @Prester John

    How is norton blocking it, are living in the year 1998?

  104. @Erik L

    There were reports from Vancouver and Edinburgh in February of Chinese tourists buying up masks.

    In Australia it was organised at corporate level.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/billions-of-face-masks-sent-to-china-during-australian-bushfire-crisis-20200402-p54gjh.html

    “One of the groups in Australia which sprang into action was the Poly Group, a Chinese government-run global conglomerate which started off as a front company for the Chinese People’s Liberation Army but has since moved into businesses including arms dealing and property development

    The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald have obtained copies of internal company messages that reveal an organised campaign by Poly in Australia to purchase as many surgical masks, goggles and gowns as possible through January and February.

    One January 25 message from the Poly headquarters in Sydney calls on the “team” to find and purchase masks from their local chemists for urgent dispatch to China. Responses came quickly as staff scoured stores and chemists from Penrith to Parramatta, Wentworthvillle, Mona Vale, Epping, Rhodes, regional Wollongong, and Melbourne.

    One staff member reported back that masks at the local Hornsby Chemist Warehouse and Priceline outlets were sold out but that they would check other stores. Others were on the hunt at hardware chains such as Bunnings. Another worker messaged from Melbourne that the entire Chemist Warehouse network there had sold out of masks.

    Yet another Poly staffer reported seeking assistance from relatives in Japan, while a senior Poly executive in the US messaged that there were lots of masks available there and that 12,000 would cost $US6266.”

    • Replies: @Erik L
  105. moshe says:
    @JMcG

    I’m sorry to hear about your aunt. Hopefully, for her it was a release. But I think that we underestimate the benefit of being alive even under circumstances that healthy and young people would consider to be unlivable. So I’m very sorry to hear about your aunt. I hope everything else in your family and life is good and nice.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  106. Kyle says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    My grampa has it. He’s 93 and has not died yet. He’s the only person I know who has it.

    • Replies: @moshe
  107. @Old and Grumpy

    Too bad florists are shutdown, and one of those business likely doomed to the dustbin of history.

    I don’t know what inspires such hysterical defeatism, but you may rest assured that florist shoppes will continue to be a feature of American life.

  108. Lot says:
    @The Alarmist

    A single virus may be defective to cause the disease (generally or in its particular victim) or have other issues because of a mutation but can recombine with others as a group.

    An infection by a single lucky virus that reproduces in the host cell lacks a larger gene pool.

  109. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @kaganovitch

    I should note that by Haredi standards, I’m on the autistic side of the Sociability curve.

    What do you mean by this?

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  110. anon[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Could that be the reason why the employers drool from both sides of the mouth to hire foreigners (when they can’t move the jobs to a foreign country)? The role of incompetence in discrimination against locals while hiring hasn’t been researched much, I think.

  111. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    If you get hit with a virus particle early in the morning, the probability of getting infected is not going to be the same as it is late in the evening when you’re tired.

    Citation needed.

    But the hygiene hypothesis is now more than just a hypothesis, so avoiding exposure to all pathogens is not a good idea either.

    What is the hygiene hypothesis?

    • Replies: @HA
  112. Shit. Now you’re a straight-out Chinadidit, masksprotectthewearer liar. You used to be a tad more subtle.

  113. keuril says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    It was just reported in the Japanese press as clubs.

    Actually there were numerous reports that the superspreader went to gay bars.
    https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20200507-00258057-wow-kr

    At the following link, which includes a picture of the outside of one of the clubs, the reporter provides a detailed discussion of how the Korean media released the names of the clubs as well as the fact that they are “gay clubs,” and discusses the tradeoffs between protecting personal privacy on the one hand and containing the pandemic on the other. The video is worth watching if you understand Japanese.
    https://www.fnn.jp/articles/-/40314

  114. all that stuff they told you in March about how this is mostly spread by touching rather than by talking, so just watch your hands a lot and don’t bother putting on a mask?

    What good does watching your hands do?

    Also, from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/10/coronavirus-us-latest-news-updates-death-toll-donald-trump-russia-anthony-fauci-quarantine

    According to the report, Trump “was spooked that his valet, who is among those who serve him food, had not been wearing a mask” and “annoyed” to learn that Pence spokeswoman Katie Miller tasted positive.

    Could she have been unmasked in a gay bar?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  115. @Anonymous

    Is this really how it works?

    Yes. It’s called viral load and it is one reason why transmission via large, sociable gatherings produce so many more bad outcomes than transmission amongst less sociable people.

    Social people talk loudly, talk closely, laugh alot, and dispense multitudes more viruses than reserved p0eople who wear masks. If you are infected with a small viral load, your immune system has a chance to get ahead of the disease. If you are subjected to a large viral load, the disease is ahead of your immune system.

    Sociable people tend to reproduce at a younger age.
    More reserved people reproduce later in life.
    Sociable people acquire larger viral loads and die.
    More reserved people acquire smaller viral loads and live.
    Irony is a bitch and her name is Ms. Corona-chan.

  116. Bleuteaux says:
    @vhrm

    This is it. At least a third of the population is furious at the lockdowns and has been ready to resume life since 5 minutes after they started. Let the agoraphobics sit indoors.

    Eventually, FOMO will set in and even the recluses will venture outdoors.

  117. Pericles says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    Maybe it was just gay friday as usual.

  118. @JimB

    Then there’s no practical way to avoid infection since you can’t stop interacting with the earth’s atmosphere.

    Julius Caesar was infamously murdered in 44BC on the floor of the Senate by his colleagues, and with his last breath, dispersed 25 sextillion (2.5 × 1022) molecules into the atmosphere. In any given breath you take, the odds are you’re breathing some of them in.

    https://www.chemistryworld.com/review/caesars-last-breath-the-epic-story-of-the-air-around-us/3008584.article

    The present day Senate, perhaps, needs to play a more active role in the political succession process. Et tu, Burrtus?

  119. Bruno says:

    Sales on Carnival are up 600% for August. So the theory about the old not wanting to spend money has to be adjust : they want to spend money on what they like (World cruise together) and not on what they don’t mind (going to restaurants with family and friends)

    I have notice that some people on cruise are in dire condition with terrible illnesses and still want to embark and never want to be disembark even when they are almost dying.

    People who thought the high end market is dead because boats are pétri dish just had never met old people in an expensive cruise .

    They won’t spent a penny in any city. They won’t miss a free meal on board. And they love their formal attire on sea nights.

  120. @Old and Grumpy

    Flower shops just reopened here in Los Angeles, though with restrictions.

    I don’t see florists going away because of this plandemic. They will presumably decline, though, to the extent that most non-necessity businesses will suffer as the American people get poorer and poorer.

  121. @Jonathan Mason

    What good does watching your hands do?

    Must do some good– women tell Joe Biden to all the time.

    • LOL: Jus' Sayin'...
  122. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Will be interesting to see, alright.

    I’m neither young nor anywhere near being a boomer. My wife is much younger than I. We plan to resume dining out (usually with our children) as soon as that’s allowed here in Los Angeles County.

    If L.A. and Orange Counties don’t reopen churches, dental offices, barbers, and dine-in restaurants by July, we will take a family road trip to some county that HAS reopened them. Just north of Sacramento, two counties (Yuba and Sutter) reopened those, with spacing requirements and capacity limitations, a few days ago:

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-03/yuba-sutter-modoc-california-counties-defy-stay-home-allow-businesses-reopen

    https://www.kcra.com/article/el-dorado-county-works-move-faster-through-stage-2-reopening-plan/32425584

    Without regard to what Governor Newsom “orders”, our church here in L.A. County plans to reopen on a limited basis on May 31st. One plan discussed is to hold several more services each Sunday than usual, with far fewer people in the building for each one, to require masks, and to forgo service of food and drinks before and after (or for communion, of course). Not sure whether they’re going to require or suggest that elderly people refrain from attending.

  123. @Jack D

    Who are you trying to fool, Jack D., with that telephoto lens? There’s no way all those people are that skinny!

  124. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    mouth diapers

    That’s a keeper.

    In Anglophone West we don’t use the Yanklish “diapers” – we say nappies or (rarely) napkins.

    So even better… mouth-nappy.

    I’m going to use that every day, forever – because anyone who wears one is full of shit.

    fluBro Chad: Nice mouth-nappy, Doomer.

    Doomer Karen: I’m calling the police.

    .

    TIL that ‘nappy‘ as a word pre-dates ‘diaper‘, but neither originally meant baby-shit-catcher. ‘Diaper‘ in that very-specific sense dates from the 1830s. (But Yanklish still refers to menstrual pads as ‘sanitary napkins‘, I think).

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  125. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    The bars you go to have ‘cornhole’?! Didn’t you listen to Steve re: gay bars?

  126. Coemgen says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    The mask is for the comfort of your fellow citizens. The mask decreases the distance your oral excretions spew from your pie-hole. The profoundly antisocial segment of our society is unable to understand this concept.

    • Agree: Jus' Sayin'...
    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
  127. anonymous[227] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    “South Korea is back on the defensive, with Seoul’s bars and clubs ordered closed as the country reported its biggest one-day increase in new infections in a month.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-early-coronavirus-wins-dim-after-rash-of-new-cases-11589107406

  128. @Bleuteaux

    One of my 2 friends was a more typical Covid fatality. Overweight, underlying health issues etc. The other one was afaict in perfect health previously , same weight since high school , worked in a home based business etc., so no obvious risk factors. Of the five acqaintances, I’m not aware of any previous health issues (but not sure I would know necessarily). Only one was obese , although all were carrying a few extra pounds as guys in their late forties and fifties tend to do.

    • Thanks: Bleuteaux
    • Replies: @Jack D
  129. @anon

    “…economy is about satisfying people’s needs for goods and services…”

    It’s more complicated than that. A basic human need is to be as high up on the primate dominance hierarchy as one can clamber. Thorstein Veblen pointed out that one way of doing this is conspicuous consumption of goods and services that serve as status markers. A main function of advertising is to convince consumers that conspicuous consumption of the advertised goods and services will give them a leg up in the quest for social dominance.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  130. moshe says:
    @Kyle

    I hope he recovers. Is he actually suffering from the effects of the virus or did he just test positive for it?

  131. Keypusher says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Not as stupid as anyone still among Trump’s dwindling band of supporters, though.

  132. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    <"if you get hit with a virus particle early in the morning, the probability of getting infected is not going to be the same as it is late in the evening when you’re tired. — Citation needed."

    Just so you know, it is completely fine with me if, in the future, you choose to type “immunity varies throughout the day” into a search engine yourself before asking someone else to do it for you, but as a show of goodwill, here is what I found when I did that:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328245/ "In mice, antimicrobial responses have been shown to differ during certain times of the day"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6585517/ "From bacteria to mammals, nearly all organisms have adapted their physiology and behavior to a daily rhythm. …Therefore, it is not surprising that several features of the immune response are regulated in a time-of-day dependent manner. "

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081214191014.htm "Immunity Stronger At Night Than During Day"

    “What is the hygiene hypothesis?”

    https://www.google.com/search?q=hygiene+hypothesis

  133. @eD

    “He is very smart but not that analytical in how his brain works.”

    No. Lion is highly educated but not especially smart, and his thoughts are painfully derivative and unoriginal. He often takes credit for ideas that have been around for decades or centuries and he plagiarizes his commenters without attribution.

    He is a 50-year-old incel virgin for good reason.

  134. @Erik L

    It’s a natural conclusion from observed behaviour in other slightly different contexts.

    There is a name for it in Chink-squiggles – 代购 dàigòu (roughly: die-go) – which involves people purchasing things for export to China.

    Ordinarily, this was a means of tariff-avoidance (for things like luxury goods), but during various recent ‘crises’ the idea expanded.

    During the 2008 ‘tainted milk scandal’ (where baby formula was being adulterated with melamine), there was a very large-scale organised dàigòu operation that led to shortages of infant formula in Australia.

    More recently (March of this year) there were newspaper stories about two Chinese-owned property groups (‘Greenland‘ and ‘Risland‘) who sent their (exclusively-Chinese) staff to accumulate as much as they could, of various products on a list – including what everyone now suddenly (and not at all because TV tells them to) calls “PPE”.

    Risland’s group supposedly flew 82 tonnes of stuff to Wuhan.

    There is currently a claim that dàigòu operations in Australia employ upwards of 150,000 Chinese nationals.

    That claim is almost certainly false, and is part of a broader Sinophobe narrative being pushed by the US and its satraps.

    Since 95% of people are fucking imbeciles, any Chink with more than 2 packets of dunny roll in their shopping cart now gets side-eye from Australian bogans (white trash).

    The Chink government has had about enough of this shit, though – and they’re wily fuckers.

    Yesterday they threatened to impose tariffs on Australian barley (of all things!). Barley’s not a major export for Australia – Australia exports of barley are about $1.5bn , of which $1.3bn goes to China.

    It’s also not a major export to China (those are iron ore, gas, coal and education services; barley’s about 1% of total exports to China).

    Plus, the barley Australia sends to China tends to be feed grade (low-margin) rather than malting-grade (high-margin).

    So you might wonder why they would bother… until you look at an electoral map and overlay the main barley-growing regions – particularly those regions that can’t get their quality up to malting-grade.

    It’s absolute genius, and could well change the government at the next election.

    This is why a technocracy composed of (numerate) engineers will beat a bureaucracy composed of (innumerate) lawyers.

  135. @Anonymous

    I should note that by Haredi standards, I’m on the autistic side of the Sociability curve.

    What do you mean by this?

    I mean that Haredi society is off the charts sociable by contemporary standards. It is not unusual for instance, to have an invitation to some sort of party/social event (wedding, bar mitzvah, engagement, charity dinner, alumni event etc.) every night of the week. Large family sizes means lots and lots of cousins getting married , in addition to business connections and friends who invite you to weddings ,engagements, sheva brachot (each family wedding ((and many non family weddings)) entails at least three and as many as six social events depending on the number of sheva brachot you want to/have to attend). This is in addition to thrice daily synagogue attendance, study groups etc. All in all, you get to
    meet quite a lot of people as a matter of course.

    I, somewhat unusually for a Haredi , seldom attend social gatherings of any sort(family living in USA is small), hence I have a smaller social circle than most Haredim , so I doubt I know more Covid cases than most. If anything , it’s likely I know fewer than most Haredim.

  136. anon[146] • Disclaimer says:

    Nothing needs to be done. Remember the Spanish Flu was immediately followed by the Roaring 20s and all its partying and socializing and spectator events and gatherings. Just end the government imposed control and let people be free.

  137. prosa123 says:
    @Anon

    Sounds like South Dakota, with most of the cases connected to the huge meatpacking plant and its largely minority workforce.

  138. jb says:

    …The Experts haven’t offered a lot of practical hands-on disinterested advice about what it relatively safe and what is relatively risky. They spent all of February and March lying to the public about how it wouldn’t help to wear a mask…

    Scott Alexander made an interesting point a while back, noting that the CDC had been telling people that masks were useless for years:

    I went into it thinking they’d lied to us, hoping to prevent hoarders from buying up so many masks that there weren’t enough for health workers. Turns out that’s not true. The CDC has been singing the same tune for the past ten years. Swine flu, don’t wear masks. SARS, don’t wear masks. They’ve been really consistent on this point.

    Also:

    Or is it something like that on average 1 out of 1000 viral particles leads to an infection?

    I think it’s got to be that. It seems obvious that a single viral particle should be enough to get an infection going, and it would also seem entirely reasonable to think that most of the particles that get into your body might end up somewhere where they can’t do any harm, and then fall apart. The idea that 1000 (or some other number) is some kind of critical dose, like with poison, doesn’t make biological sense. (Although if dose matters in the sense that a viral megadose gives the virus a jump on the immune system, maybe a microdose reverses that situation and results in an asymptotic infection?)

  139. @Anon

    Looks like what Darth Vader would use for spin class.

    Will you still use this once corona is over?

    A good smart trainer plus a Zwift subscription (~$10/mo) gives all the variable resistance etc – with the added benefit of having other people in the Zwift environment that you can compete against if you want to.

    That blockquote is approximately my father will say when I tell him I’ve pre-ordered a US$3500 Wahoo KickR Bike …

    I’m upgrading from a Wahoo KickR smart trainer plus a road bike, both of which I plan to sell. I never ride outside: on bike paths you can never spend more than a few seconds going genuinely flat-out; off-path I simply do not trust SUV drivers.

  140. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @moshe

    Living in Jordan for instance made me comfortable with polygamy.

    What about living in Jordan led you to see merit in polygamy?

  141. @Coemgen

    “The mask is for the comfort of your fellow citizens. The mask decreases the distance your oral excretions spew from your pie-hole. The profoundly antisocial segment of our society is unable to understand this concept.”

    The mouth diaper is for your comfort. Your mouth diaper prevents oral excretions from entering your pie hole and nose holes. The profoundly anti-science segment of our society doesn’t understand this concept, so they insist everyone don mouth diapers.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
  142. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks

    A local expert told me the end game for this country is universal immunity

    What makes this individual’s opinion expert, authoritative, and credible?

  143. SFG says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I was there for the switchover. He had done more HBD stuff on Half Sigma and was worried about being tracked down so was planning to go slightly more PC. I and a lot of the other commenters thought it was silly.

  144. @Alexander Turok

    I’m a big fan of Zimbabwe – because of their monetary geniuses, I’m a multi-trillionaire in dollar* terms.

    This is what government does to money – always and everywhere. It’s just a question of timing; doesn’t matter if you’re a globe-spanning empire (as the Romans found out), it’s baked into the cake.

    Also… since I have zero debt, there is no risk that my nominal multi-trillionaire status evaporates the moment I lose a line of credit – unlike 99% of ‘billionaires’, most of whose value is in stock (including deliberate non-arms-length stock-for-stock transactions designed specifically to goose valuations).

    [1] To be more precise in: 2008 Zimbabwe dollar terms.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  145. @moshe

    mask

    Huh? This word ‘mask‘ no longer has any covid19-relevant context.

    For those playing at home – &Moshe’s comment makes sense if he’s using ‘mask’ in the archaic sense… i.e., referring to what are correctly termed face-diapers.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  146. ogunsiron says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    A relative lost her husband to covid.
    He was over 60 and in quite poor health but could have toughed it out a few more years but there was no way he could have survived covid.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  147. Peterike says:
    @Anon

    “ A NordicTrack Commercial S22i Studio Cycle.”

    You should have bought a set of weights. Cardio is another boomer con job.

  148. @ic1000

    Are infected people who aren’t very infectious not very infectious throughout the entire course of their infections? Or are they mostly measuring when they measured people?

    • Replies: @ic1000
  149. Peterike says:
    @onetwothree

    “ restaurants charging 500 percent markups on food and 1000 percent markups on beer.”

    I don’t know about you, but whipping up my own ten course tasting menu is a bit taxing.

    • Replies: @onetwothree
  150. @YetAnotherAnon

    Process knowledge is thus represented by an experienced workforce, which circulates best practices and figures out new ways of doing things. These workers manifest in industrial clusters, or what economist Brad DeLong calls “communities of engineering practice”.

    PiltdownBrother1, an electrical engineering major in the mid-1960s at a good school, had a curriculum that started at “smithy” (designing and drawing, forging, and finishing a steel part) and ended with logic circuit design. Design and manufacturing process were intertwined in the minds of young engineers right from the start. Engineering culture is all different now for the last three decades, he says, not necessarily for the better.

  151. Coemgen says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Thank you for confirming my theory. I’ll wager you voted for HRC in 2016. If only there was a god to punish you and your ilk ….

    • Replies: @moshe
  152. @Anon

    I bought one of those early wooden Nordic Tracks when I was single and living in a New York apartment. I used it for about two weeks, started feeling vaguely silly and bored, and did the obvious and natural thing by switching to going out for a run, instead, among all the humans.

    No offense. YMMV.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  153. Mr. Anon says:
    @Keypusher

    Not as stupid as anyone still among Trump’s dwindling band of supporters, though.

    I haven’t been a Trump supporter for a couple of years.

  154. Kyle says:

    It seems like coughing and sneezing can create a powerful aerosolizing event that can release a lot of particles. He describes it as being able to fill a small room with enough viral particles to be infectious for a few minuets. But normal breathing doesn’t. If this is the case then could taking cough suppressant medication reduce transmission rates? If every American was taking cough medication would this significantly reduce Ro? Also if we’re all wearing masks we should also be wearing protective eye wear, to protect our eyes from droplets and keep us from rubbing them. We should all be wearing sun glasses indoors.

    • Replies: @moshe
    , @anon
  155. @Erik L

    I have no idea about US data. But Japanese politicians in various metropolis accused or “questioned” Chinese of this. The mayors, however, almost universally pointed to the numbers of masks sent back after China passed the emergency weeks. The fact is Chinese sent back way more.

    If you do not have the numbers and the timeline, it is shame on you, Sailer.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  156. JMcG says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Draft beer is around 1000% markup. The line cooks are illegals from South of the Rio Grande. Some can be good, but it’s not the way to bet. Restaurant food has gotten noticeably worse in the last 15 years. I can do much better than 85% of what I get in a restaurant. I do love a good bar though.

    • Replies: @eD
  157. But, who knows, maybe I’m misinterpreting.

    I suspect that you are misinterpreting something other than Dr. Bromage, but you hold an MBA, so you tell me.

    There is a general problem that the economy largely thrives on people splurging to impress others.

    Does it? I had thought that the economy largely thrives on people making things.

    Does splurging cause prosperity or it is the other way around?

    If it’s Keynes’ animal spirits that you’re after, well, in the fullness of the 20th century, Keynsian theory has blossomed into MMT—a theory few understand. (The lack of understanding is admittedly a serious weakness of the theory, for a theory whose general outline cannot be perceived by the general college-educated public stands in a weak position to ask for public support; but the theory is otherwise good as far as I know.)

    MMT explicitly avoids reliance on people to splurge on anything.

    Some smart persons who probably understand MMT do seem to think that MMT is unsustainable in the long run, and they may be right (though, empirically, MMT is looking pretty sustainable to me). But that was not what you were talking about, was it? You were not talking about the long run, but about Mother’s Day.

    What we see is a shift in demand from one sector (restaurants and hospitality) to other sectors (for example electronics). Shifts in demand are hard on the loser and a humane public policy ought to account for that, but our basic economic trouble is a shortfall in production because productive workers are not at work.

    Splurging will not help. Indeed, by dissipating scarce resources, splurging might make things worse.

    Saving is good. Spending is bad. We all know this but pretend to forget it when the business news starts using terms like “aggregate demand” and such. The result is that we become extremely confused.

    Some will nevertheless object that productive workers are not at work because no one is spending, hence no money is available for productive workers to earn; but it’s not 1930 any longer. Today, MMT exists to fix that problem.

    Production, production, production. Keep your eye on the production. We can produce our way out of any economic hole. Splurging, though, will hardly help.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @vhrm
  158. JMcG says:
    @moshe

    Thank you for your very kind words.

  159. @Hypnotoad666

    But wouldn’t it perhaps be useful to get exposed to a low dose of particles? Just enough to train your immune system to attack the Covid RNA code, but not enough to result in out of control infection.

    I’ve been kicking that around myself this past month.

    I’m one of those dreaded “boomers” this thing is supposed to remove. But aside from having 10lbs of lard i need to trim off the belly, i have zero comorbidities.

    If the vaccine isn’t coming anytime soon, getting this–hopefully over and done with–in the summer would be kinda nice. But, of course, there’s still some risk and specifically i want to avoid starting with a big viral load that gets the better of my immune system and sends my into a cytokine storm.

    It would be goodness if the scientists could get a handle on what that level is for people in various age and risk categories.

    Also would goodness if there was a program to gently ramp up. You get a dose of say 10 virus particles. If doesn’t make you sick you wait 3 or 4 weeks to see if you’ve gotten an antibody response. If not ramp up by say 5x and try again.

    Of course better … just getting a vaccine done. Culture up the thing where the spike protein ain’t so spikey would be great. Not something i can do but we’ve been doing vaccines for a while. Ought to be doable.

    Where’s Maurice Hilleman when you need him? (I know, i know.)

  160. @ogunsiron

    This is sad, and it sounds like the same kind of thing that happens with flu viruses.

    Supporters of the panic/shutdown/overreaction like to use the phrase, “it’s just like the flu” or “it’s just the flu” as a badge of shame against those opposed. SARS-CoV-2 is not “the flu,” but it is having much the same effect as a bad flu virus, no matter what anyone says.

    It is not the Black Death.

    The Corona Panic of 2020 will go down as a world-wide overreaction that caused far more damage than what the virus itself would have caused if it had been treated “like the flu.”

  161. moshe says:
    @Coemgen

    LOL. You’re the one wearing a tampon on your face.

    °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

    P.S. If you are over 70 or immunocompromised I recommend wearing an N95 mask or better and rescind the insult. But either way, don’t tell other people what to wear outdoors. It’s tyrannical. And using guilt shaming techniques is about the most ball-less thing you can do.

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  162. moshe says:
    @Kyle

    We all should all be walking around dressed like those guys who took away ET.

  163. @utu

    Yes, it was 1968, not 1967. I was remembering from childhood. My parents, my sisters and I had it. For me, it came with a very high fever.

    The information you provided is interesting.

    My whole point here is not that SARS-CoV-2 is not serious. It is bad, and it is not “just the flu,” but it is not the Black Death either. My argument and concern is that far more damage is happening to far more human lives as a result of efforts to limit the spread than would occur if the virus were indeed treated like a very bad flu.

    A skilled and responsible pilot on approach does not dive his Boeing 747 full of passengers down into an apartment complex to avoid the errant Learjet that is flying into his path. Choices must be made. Our pilots have failed miserably.

    • Replies: @utu
  164. @Kratoklastes

    “Full of shit” for wearing a mask when it is absolutely required for admittance to my workplace and now required to enter grocery stores? Really?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  165. @moshe

    How about if you are not in those risk groups but live in a household with someone who is 70-plus years old and/or immunocompromised and/or suffering from a respiratory condition? Seems wise to wear an N95 mask then and otherwise try to minimize your own chance of being infected and bringing the virus home.

    • Agree: moshe
  166. vhrm says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Don’t get on board with this disgusting scatological face diaper term.

    The masks are probably useful and even when imposed are among the less annoying dictates.

    and the Omar Marteen dude was lost to Trolldom a month ago … don’t encourage him.

  167. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    As I have mentioned before, my sister and her husband had it. They are both around 70. My sister noticed that she had lost her sense of taste and smell, right around the time that this was confirmed to be a symptom of Wuhan Virus. She was tested and they confirmed that she had it. They experienced it as a mild cold/flu type disease and did not require hospitalization despite their age and other risk factors (her husband is diabetic). Were it not for the lost of taste/smell my sister said she would have just written it off as a seasonal cold. I should note that they are both sun lovers. They live in Fla. in the winter and spend lots of time outdoors golfing, etc.

    In certain areas, up to 70% of Covid deaths are in nursing homes. Even if you are older, if you are not sick enough to be living in a nursing home, your odds are pretty good. Not perfect but it is not the death sentence that the media makes it out to be.

    Our government did the completely wrong thing. Instead of closing the schools (children hardly ever die from this disease), they should have isolated all the nursing home. They should have brought in trailers and the nursing home staff should have been required to stay there 24/7. And while they were at it, they should have hauled the old folks outdoors at every opportunity. This used to be standard practice for invalids, esp. TB patients and hospital rooms used to have balconies for this purpose.

    • Agree: Mark G., moshe, Jim Don Bob
    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
  168. vhrm says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I’m not sure if you’re serious here.

    you extol MMT and then you say:

    Saving is good. Spending is bad. We all know this but pretend to forget it when the business news starts using terms like “aggregate demand” and such. The result is that we become extremely confused.

    AFAICT “mmt” is all about deficit spending and devaluing the currency. In what way does that encourage saving?

    In the MMT world borrow as much as you can, try to hold out until a crisis like 2008 or now, then default and refinance/get bailed out by the government.
    Repeat.

    Saving is for chumps. Check out the interest rates currently…

  169. Jack D says:
    @kaganovitch

    Aside from the fact that Haredi lifestyle involves lots and lots of (mostly indoor) gatherings, I wonder whether another factor is that Haredi lifestyle also does not involve a lot of sun exposure (and even when outside you are fully covered up? Doctors should be pushing Vitamin D3 on the Orthodox community especially.

    The common thread I am seeing among the hardest hit groups (elderly, blacks, Orthodox Jews) is that they would all tend to be Vitamin D deficient, especially in winter.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  170. eD says:
    @JMcG

    Off topic, but I agree that restaurants have gotten worse in the last fifteen years. I’d be interested in finding out why.

    If it weren’t for them employing a lot of people, I’d be OK if half the bars (I like bars, but we could get by with half) and two thirds of the restaurants were gone. But that is very different from closing everything. Restaurants become really important if you happen to be staying out of town.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @peterike
  171. utu says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    “My argument…” – No, you don’t have an argument. Bad analogies about Boeing 747 and Black Death are not arguments.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  172. anon[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kyle

    It seems like coughing and sneezing can create a powerful aerosolizing event that can release a lot of particles.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8270193/GIF-shows-cough-airplane-spread-deadly-coronavirus-cabin.html

    • Troll: moshe
  173. @Jack D

    Aside from the fact that Haredi lifestyle involves lots and lots of (mostly indoor) gatherings, I wonder whether another factor is that Haredi lifestyle also does not involve a lot of sun exposure (and even when outside you are fully covered up? Doctors should be pushing Vitamin D3 on the Orthodox community especially.

    That’s a very good point. I know an MD with a large family practice in Lakewood, who has been pushing D3 supplementation for the last few years, but I’m not sure how common that is in the community.

  174. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Your comment was pretty funny, but you actually can ‘exercise among other people‘ at home.

    This seemed absolutely ridiculous when I first encountered it, but now I would not do ‘cardio’ any other way. (Yes, I’m talking about the various ‘virtual cycling’ apps).

    When I do my cardio it’s motivating to have riders ahead – especially to chase when going uphill (uphills are hard). Plus, if you stay close behind the guy in front, you get a very slight slipstream that makes things easier (up to 30% easier, in a pack on flat ground).

    The app enables riders to interact each other – I’m too uncoordinated to do that and keep breathing and pedalling.

    It sounds very stupid on paper, but it’s actually quite neat when you get 100-odd strangers giving you a ‘thumbs up’ any time you do anything significant (like set a PB for a lap, or win a sprint or a climb).

    And while the graphics aren’t ‘to die for’ (yet), Innsbruckring is definitely in Innsbruck; the London Loop definitely passes through recognisable bits of London, and the NYC Central Park loop is just brilliant (with its sci-fi plexiglass “road in the sky”). So… variety.

    Here’s a 3 minute video of a guy on his bike at home, trying to get a KOM on the hardest climb on the NYC course.

    Back in the olden olden days in gyms, I would seldom spend more than 20 minutes on any cardio machine (treadmill, eilliptical or stationary bike) before I got bored.

    On a smart trainer with my own (fitted) bike with Zwift, Rouvy or SufferFest… I seldom spend less than an hour, usually at an average heart rate in the mid-150s and pinging up to the mid-170s on climbs (my theoretical max (220 – age) is 165, but I get it up to the mid-170s for 5 minutes at a time during real ‘efforts’).

    Plus… my avatar has the same age, height, weight and haircut as I do, but a slightly-‘aspirational’ weight distribution.

    Yes, both the Sarth Effrikan guy (van Staden) and the guy behind him passed Wahoo-me before we got to the blue stage marker. I got them back on the downhill.

  175. @utu

    My analogies are appropriate.

    Let’s see YOU provide an argument that far more damage is NOT happening to far more human lives as a result of efforts to limit the spread than would occur if the virus were indeed treated like a very bad flu.

    The burden of proof is on you and anyone else who would claim to justify the destruction of tens of millions of livelihoods and limits on the freedoms of hundreds of millions.

  176. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @eD

    Off topic, but I agree that restaurants have gotten worse in the last fifteen years. I’d be interested in finding out why.

    I’ve worked as a waiter in plenty of better restaurants/venues, and I think it might ultimately be a matter of culture disconnect.

    First, building leases have gone up, along with business taxes, profit margins are super tight, forcing restaurants to commit to illegals as chefs and chef’s helpers.

    White American chefs in good restaurants go by the “get it right” dictum. By my experience working in good restaurants, Gordon Ramsey isn’t that over the top. I’ve worked with quite a few chefs with his mindset and attitude. It’s not altogether pleasant, but they get shit done, and done right.

    Hispanic Americans, and especially illegal alien chefs go by “good enough” when deciding that a dish is ready to serve.

    I think poorer cultures tend to be averse to wasting food, so if they overcook, or under-brown an item, they’ll go ahead and have the waiter serve it up anyway, conforming to their “good enough,” or “I would eat it” dictum. They’re from Mexico, or first or second generation. They’re gonna do what they know. And you get to take it, and like it. Just another one of those slow, but perceptible erosions of your daily quality of life brought to you be our friendly neighborhood globalists.

    • Replies: @eD
    , @Jack D
  177. @Buzz Mohawk

    Hey, I wear my N-95 when I shop, and my wife wore hers, soon to be sterilized in the oven. But this is unreal.

    Sterilizing your wife in the oven is as unreal as it gets. Well, maybe not in India…

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Anon
    , @AnotherDad
  178. @yakushimaru

    You are a ship named after the Medicine Buddha?

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
  179. eD says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks.

    I had figured that overhead (rents and taxes) had increased and they were cutting costs somewhere. But I was thinking more ingredients than labor.

  180. @RadicalCenter

    wearing a mask when it is absolutely required for admittance to my workplace and now required to enter grocery stores

    If your government and/or your workplace forces you to wear a face-nappy when you would rather not, then you can claim exculpatory coercion: actus me invito factus non est meus actus (an act I am forced to do, is not my act).

    Participants in a stupid thing who are victims of coercion, are impliedly not included in critiques of ‘participants’ simpliciter nor of the thing itself: implicit in the critique is always the assumption of voluntary participation. (So someone who drives a truck-bomb at a checkpoint because his family will be executed if he refuses, is not a terrrrrrrist and is thus not part of a critique of ‘terrrrrrrrists’).

    Likewise “people who pay taxes contribute to the foreign policy Death Machine and are therefore not ‘civilian’ targets“, impliedly only includes people who think taxes (and states and governments) are morally legitimate. People who pay taxes against their will, and under pain of state seizure of their stuff, are not included in the critique.

    If semiotics has given us anything, it has given us “signifier/signified”, and the notion that it’s generally unlikely that the reader gets the message that the writer intended.

    If face-nappies were ever to be made mandatory in my neck of the woods under pain of some badged armed fuckwit putting me in shackles, I would wear a face-nappy against my will.

    To signify my objection to coercion I would also make certain that the face-nappy was ineffective and poorly-fitted, and would exhale deeply at every opportunity and wipe my hands on every surface on offer after licking them.

    Fortunately, Australia is a place where the government knows better than to bother trying to herd cats and eat porcupines: they had a go at running a face-nappy propaganda trial-balloon a few weeks ago (on morning Housewife-TV), and shelved it within 24 hours once the husbands heard about it and rang talkback radio.

    In my neck of the woods one spots the occasional nappy-face: they are not an overt object of ridicule, but normies struggle to suppress smirks and eye-rolls. Them as aren’t Asian females, are usually obese middle-aged females with bad skin.

  181. @Reg Cæsar

    She comes out tender and juicy.

  182. BenKenobi says:
    @Kratoklastes

    So… the Chinese govt is angry their unwelcome colonists are getting dirty looks? Perhaps they could return to the Middle Kingdom, then.

  183. Anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:
    @moshe

    The ‘fish avoidance’ of the Tasmanians might well be a case of a powerful religious taboo.
    An astonishing variety of animals have been held as ‘sacred’ by societies throughout the world at all time periods.
    The modern UK has a quasi ‘religious’ ban on humans consuming horse flesh – but, strangely, this doesn’t apply to cats and dogs being fed horse flesh.

  184. Anon[368] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    You must be Mr. Fantastic with how far you reached to make that “joke” LOL

  185. Anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Reminds me of some rather crude and blunt remarks made by a Cockney acquaintance of mine whilst he was in the process of moaning about his wife:

    The subject turned to the general uselessness of the modern British ‘liberated’ woman, “the missus can’t even cook, she burns water, *I* have to do all the cooking, she can’t sew to save her life …. the only thing women can do these days is know how to f*ck …..”.

  186. @Kratoklastes

    any Chink with more than 2 packets of dunny roll in their shopping cart now gets side-eye

    Don’t mean to broach the obvious, mate, but shouldn’t that have always been happening to “Chinks” in every country outside of Asia, dunny roll or not? Like, wtf are they doing in my supermarket? You don’t see me in Chinaland shopping for dugong eyeballs or whatever.

    • Agree: peterike, Inverness
  187. @TomSchmidt

    Quite right and the necessary takeaway. Our neo liberal international marketplace has destroyed our Western public health system which cleaned up the environments and was the real reason for our increased lifespans and not the phony med-pharm drug and technology scam which we call scientific medicine. But of course Gates and Faucci will come to the rescue with a vaccine

    • Thanks: TomSchmidt
  188. @Reg Cæsar

    The name is of a J-pop star of the 1980s. I picked it because I was listening her songs at the moment I was commenting.

    Besides, it is a nice name. You can find a bit of India, a bit of China, and of course, a bit of Japan in it.

    Before you charging me with Diversity inclinations, I ask you to notice that India and China and Japan did not, do not, mix their peoples. Like you do in USA.

    P.S. I do not like Sailer’s “Chinese methodically buying off the masks …” not only because it is probably factually false, but also that it again reveals that it is hard to have nationalists and peace together. The nationalists just can’t help blaming the foreigners, even if they are, say, Chinese-Americans, or that they are foreign merely by hyphenation. For nationalism to succeed, to be respectable, you gotta stop this. It is the nationalism of cowards and shamelessness when the first thing on your mind is to blame the foreigners.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    , @Anonymous
  189. Belarus held its Victory Day parade on May 9. When will they begin stacking bodies like cordwood in Minsk?

  190. @Peterike

    Markups on such meals is more like 10,000 percent.

  191. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Of course, when you realise that the Economist-ization of western economies is, in the final analysis, nothing but pure act of hatred and spite by the ruling elitists with the avowed intent of destroying white men, it all makes sense.
    Perhaps sniffed and sneered at by the ‘oh so superior’ types at The Economist, stitching gowns, masks etc together – and the myriad if other basic industrial work, brought home the bread and butter for many a white working class family. But we can’t have that, oh no, what? white workers actually content with life and managing to exist?
    Oh, and to kick them *really* hard in the balls, once their down, let’s important the entire third world in order to immiserate them to the maximum extent possible.

  192. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    Great post Jack D.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  193. Alden says:
    @Alexander Turok

    What do we produce in this country?

  194. @Red Blooded American Boomer

    RBAB, you’re doing good work here. And i’d join the other young guys in finding this one funny …

    except, of course, there’s absolutely nothing about this stopping the hypothetical “daughter” from getting married and going ahead and getting knocked up. (Not to mention it’s her fault for being under the biological gun doing it at 36.)

    What she’s complaining about is not being able to have her special day–i.e. her day of officially licensed attention whoring, where all the other girls (everyone actually) are supposed must step back and let her be the prima donna. A modern custom which has absolutely nothing to do with marriage, with children, with family and i’d argue works against all of them by encouraging female vanity and attention seeking.

    • Agree: Inverness
    • Replies: @nebulafox
  195. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    The entire world supply of 1N4007 diodes, and of other similar parts, is made in a fab in Lee’s Summit, Missouri, and is transported by minivan to the FedExOffice store on the corner of College and Metcalf in Overland Park, KS, where they are shipped to China for dicing and packaging. I helped the old Chinese duffer carry a million bucks worth in there one night. He promised to leave me a wafer (a spoiled one) but never did.

    An aside, the building the fab is in is where they made the WE 300B tube for decades. The machinery went to Allentown, I think.

  196. @Jack D

    The authorities have been shying away from giving advice because:

    “Quarantines don’t work.”
    “What we have to watch out for is bias.”
    “Go visit Chinatown.”
    “Wash your hands … a whole lot.”
    “Masks don’t help … oh and we don’t have enough and need them for medical workers.”
    “Stop touching your face.”
    “Stay six feet apart.”
    “Don’t go to work.”
    “Stay in your homes!”
    “Don’t go golfing!”
    “Don’t go to the park!”
    “Don’t go to the beach!”
    “Sunshine kills!”

    (Ok i haven’t actually heard that last one … but it would be per spec.”)

    I know what you mean. They haven’t given sound non-PC advice:
    — Avoid homosexual men. They tend to be promiscuous disease spreaders.
    — Avoid traditional Orthodox Jews–the black hat guys. They are seriously non-compliant on social gatherings and are spreading Wuhan Special.
    — Avoid blacks. They are generally less-compliant and spreading the bug quite a bit.

    Nor even PC neutral, sound advice:
    — Avoid open mouth, heavy breathing/loud talking activities in groups–clubbing, church choir, concerts, dances, etc.
    — Wear masks in close-quarters, indoor public spaces–transit, planes, libraries, stores, bathrooms, etc. (Your office in contrast may be ok depending on staff and space.)

    which would suggest making reasonable distinctions beyond “Stay home! (unless you are an immigrant seeking to get in)”

    But yeah, these people are full of … “advice”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  197. @moshe

    Side question: It’s intuitively obvious that aside for being bad for everyone’s mental health, wearing a mask is potentially bad for your physical health. It requires no Studies or Experts to know this.

    People have been pulling cloth over there heads and faces in dusty, in hot, in cold and in foul or potentially diseased environments for thousands of years.

    It’s … common sense.

    Now–like a lot of things–we have much much more effective and easy to use options.

    • Replies: @moshe
  198. peterike says:
    @eD

    Off topic, but I agree that restaurants have gotten worse in the last fifteen years. I’d be interested in finding out why.

    Yes and no. Restaurants are both worse and far, far better than ever. The omnipresent chain restaurants like Applebees, etc. are indeed pretty terrible. Your old mom-and-pop hash joint of years (now many years) ago was probably cheaper and better.

    However, due to the foodie explosion, there are vastly more truly excellent restaurants than ever before. But for the most part you need to avoid the chains. In many parts of the country this is almost impossible.

    As anonymous noted in his reply, you do have a cultural bifurcation. At a better restaurant the chef, line cooks, etc. are culinary school graduates, and they are white, Asian, upper tier Hispanics, a few blacks. The sort of people you see as contestants on those food shows like Chopped. They are conscientious, deeply committed to cooking as an art form, etc. At the lower end, it’s just another gang of Salvadorans churning out food they don’t care about.

    Best of times, worst of times.

    • Agree: kaganovitch
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  199. @Anon

    If your wife likes it, it will be worth it … for you.

    But why does anyone buy exercise equipment … new?

    People are always buying, letting it sit, selling it off.

  200. @Corvinus

    Of those 37 people, how many have died?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  201. @yakushimaru

    P.S. I do not like Sailer’s “Chinese methodically buying off the masks …” not only because it is probably factually false, but also that it again reveals that it is hard to have nationalists and peace together. The nationalists just can’t help blaming the foreigners, even if they are, say, Chinese-Americans, or that they are foreign merely by hyphenation. For nationalism to succeed, to be respectable, you gotta stop this. It is the nationalism of cowards and shamelessness when the first thing on your mind is to blame the foreigners

    Disagree. Nationalism creates peace. It is imperialism, colonialism, “diversity”, globalism–various form of “internationalism”–that create conflict.

    Let’s take your example: (Yes, some of this did go on–people saw it.) Such a thing only can happen precisely where there has been anti-nationalism. The people doing it were almost certainly foreigners–Chinese or recent immigrants. Those are the people who have close loyalties outside the nation–back in China. Those people and their annoying behavior would not even be here under a nationalist regime.

    Stop mass immigration and people’s relatives, their friends, their loyalties are *in* the nation. (Cue all Steve’s comments about concentric loyalties.) I’m a pretty generic American. I’ve got some good friends in Germany, but i don’t even know any of my 3rd, 4th, 5th … cousins back in Ireland, England, Germany. People might be mad at me–hoarding–if i’m buying up a bunch of masks but they would be for my family, relatives, friends and neighbors, not foreigners.

    Secondly, what regular people–i.e. nationalists–are actually mad about is that America can’t even readily produce our own masks. And they aren’t blaming the Chinese for that. If they are pissed about it they are pissed at our ruling elite–the global cosmopolitans on Wall Street and in Washington that made it to happen. It’s a failure of nationalism that created the mask shortage and creates any bitterness about it.

    ~~

    You look through America’s wars you can come up with three or four buckets. There are some early ones that you could attribute cause to contending nationalisms (Mexican War) or at least nationalism vs. imperialism (American Revolution) … while the extent of the American nation was unsettled.

    But once the borders of the US were more or less settled, American Wars are not caused by nationalism, but by our imperialism– eg. Philippine-American War (our most grotesque)–or opposing someone else’s imperialism–the big War–or contending international/imperial ideologies–the Cold War, the muslim wars. Opposing someone else’s imperialism or ideology may be necessary or completely stupidly ill-conceived, but it’s not “nationalism” causing the war.

    This isn’t to say nationalism doesn’t cause conflict. Where there are contending nationalisms in the same territory, it certainly does. “Separate nations” is the wise policy. But once borders are settled, nationalism is the road–the only road–that leads to lasting peace.

    Internationalism, immigrationism, diversity lead to different peoples–different norms, mores, values, cultures–jammed together and ergo to contention and conflict.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  202. @Anon

    NonHispanic whites — perhaps even whites period — are a minority in most of our most populous States, including #1 California, #4 New York, and #11 New Jersey, and soon to become a minority in #2 Texas, #3 Florida, and others.

    So let’s stop using “minority” to mean “non-white.”

    Also, it’s not necessarily “minorities” in the USA dying disproportionately from the virus-caused disease, it appears to be Africans specifically. Whether this is because of behavior, genetics, or some combination of the two, is not yet entirely clear.

    Tend to agree with you, though, that homosexuals seem unlikely to change their behavior as much as most normal people will in order to to protect themselves and others. It is a lifestyle whose sexual practices, in medical terms, are inherently unhealthy and self-destructive. It is also inherently a selfish lifestyle that contributes to the extinction of one’s family and nation.

    Sadly, people suffering from this psychological disorder often don’t give a damn about themselves, and they ordinarily are genetic dead ends, lacking the love and sense of hope and purpose provided by raising one’s own children; why would they care more about the rest of us, of whatever age or color? (Insert the obligatory “of course, not all of them are like that, and I know a very committed, monogamous (yeah ok) ‘married’ (sic) (sick) ‘gay’ couple, blah blah blah….)

  203. @Reg Cæsar

    RC, i thought you were the language policing guy. Clearly and grammatically the “oven” clause in question modifies “hers”–which is a mask, not a wife.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  204. @Red Blooded American Boomer

    Patriotic perhaps, but to which nation? That has always been the problem for nations foolish enough to host large numbers from this unusually inbred, ruthless, and supremacist tribe.

  205. botazefa says:

    His overall impressions are pretty similar to mine: you know all that stuff they told you in March about how this is mostly spread by touching rather than by talking, so just watch your hands a lot and don’t bother putting on a mask? Well, they were mostly pulling your leg. This is largely spread by respiration indoors.

    You’re wrong on this, Steve. This thing is spread by droplets transported to mucus membranes by fingers that have encountered the droplets on surfaces. Unless someone coughs directly in your face, masks are useless.

    It should be obvious that if coronavirus was hanging in air clouds we’d have a billion dead by now.

    Masks are nonsense. The original advice that masks are unnecessary is not a lie! The CDC only changed its tune on masks after the public became loudly inebriated with the idea that wearing masks will prevent infection.

    Droplets and aerosols are heavy, man. They don’t float around. They are effected by gravity.

  206. Brutusale says:
    @Anonymous

    If you build it, they will come…temporarily. Here’s a guy who already had the experience of ramping up to meet the need and then getting dropped like a hot bowl of rice when chinkie crap became available again.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/04/06/828303817/surgical-mask-manufacturer-in-texas-is-inundated-with-requests

  207. Anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    How is this a great post when he deflects to blacks and ignores his people’s role (the Orthodox) in spreading this virus through large gatherings as I pointed out in another post. He and Gene Su are being to grate me.

    https://twitter.com/ReuvenBlau/status/1255290725744418816/photo/1

  208. botazefa says:
    @theMann

    n order to get infected, your immune system has to let you down. That in turn depends upon nutrition, exercise, and sanitation.

    It *seems* like that should be true, but is it? Population is exploding the most in the dirtiest malnourished locales. Immune systems are doing well enough to keep the breeding going.

    “Life, uh, uh, finds a way,” to quote Jeff Goldblum’s mathematician character from Jurassic Park.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  209. @Keypusher

    So do you recommend voting Democrat, or just sitting out the election?

  210. Brutusale says:
    @PiltdownMan

    The average piece of home exercise equipment transitions to a clothes rack within 6 weeks. The Peletonish crap, coming as they do with subscription fees, may take a few weeks longer.

  211. ic1000 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The PDF preprint I linked upthread was “An analysis of SARS-CoV-2 viral load by patient age” from Christian Drosten’s lab in Berlin. They did not report any time series (doing PCR tests on the same patient, on different days). They do have this interesting paragraph:

    We have previously shown that viral loads under a concentration of ca. 1E6 copies per mL of sputum or per entire throat swab are unlikely to yield infectious virus growth in cell culture (ref. 5). We also found that virus could not be isolated from respiratory samples after the first week of symptoms, which is highly concordant with transmission analyses based on actual transmission pairs, suggesting that infectivity ends by the end of the first week of symptoms (ref. 6).

    Ref. 5 is “Virological assessment of hospitalized patients with COVID-2019” by Wölfel et al, a PDF preprint at the Nature site. It is a bit of a mess, in that it lacks key figures. An earlier version with a different title is at the medRxiv website. Figure 1d affirms “virus could not be isolated from respiratory samples after the first week of symptoms,” but with a very small number of patients.

    The first part of that paragraph is intriguing, “viral loads under a concentration of about one million copies per mL of sputum or per entire throat swab are unlikely to yield infectious virus growth in cell culture.” The authors think that infected people’s respiratory tracts contain far more chopped-up and improperly-packaged viral RNA, than actual replication-competent viruses. The RT-PCR tests detect the former as well as the latter.

    If this generally holds true, it’s important, and good news.

    The lower Limit Of Detection of lab-run PCR tests is about 10 “Genome Equivalents” of viral RNA. Assuming that 0.010 milliliters (10 uL) is loaded into a test tube (not exactly right but close enough), the LOD works out to about 1,000 GEs per milliliter of sputum or saliva.

    Recall that the false negative rate on these tests is about 30%. About 30% of people known to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 get a negative result — not because the test didn’t work, but because the concentration of viral RNA was below ~1,000 copies per milliliter of sputum or saliva.

    From the Re-Opening perspective, we ought to be concerned about contagiousness as much as we are about ‘infectedness’. If 30% of contagious people are missed, that’s bad — for instance, it makes contact tracing harder. But if the false negatives are the same people who have very little replication-competent virus to sneeze, cough, or exhale, it stands to reason that the RT-PCR tests’ batting averages are much, much better than .700 at identifying those who are contagious. They should be even better at detecting the super-spreaders whose saliva is teeming with 10 billion or more GEs per milliliter of saliva.

    This gets back to one of the points made by Erin Bromage (the prof-blogger quoted in the OP). He stresses the need for big increases in testing capabilities.

    For instance, suppose Roche, Abbott, Hologic, whoever, develops a Point-of-Care test that is fast, easy, and cheap — with the tradeoff of being 100-fold less sensitive, thus able to detect only 100,000 Genome Equivalents per mL. If the preprint authors’ idea is right, such a test would easily find most spreaders and all super-spreaders. It might reduce the risk to bystanders by 100-fold or more.

    This could be a substitute for 14-day quarantines (Vienna airport, now). Passing such a test could be a requirement for inside dining, getting through the gate at a ball park, enrolling for classes. That’s not ideal, but it’s better than what we have today.

    Why aren’t any of the Fauci-Ferguson-Birx caliber of boffins floating ideas like this?

  212. botazefa says:
    @Mr. Anon

    What viral respiratory disease is not spread person-to-person

    More like person->surface->person. Not much direct person-to-person except in intimate situations. But, you won’t believe me and will insist that the magical virus flies through the air by its own power until it finds a suitable host to target? For that to be the case the magical virus would have also had to escape its previous host’s sticky mucus, upon sneeze I suppose, and venture unencumbered into Sailer’s nostrils I guess.

    A virus needs something to ride on like mucus droplets aerosolized and ejected by a sneeze. Sure, the sneeze may travel 20′ before falling downward, but the odds of directly inhaling it out of the ambient air seems very small.

    Wash hands. Don’t touch door handles and pick nose. This isn’t TB. Masks are not protecting many infections.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    , @epebble
    , @vhrm
  213. Bud Fox says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    “I am curious: How many here know someone who has died from this? How many people do you know who caught it? Anyone go to a hospital?”

    I had a 60 year old friend from my kid’s school die around the New York peak about a month ago. We both live in Westchester county. I have heard of another guy, 62, brother in law of a friend. Both seemed healthy and not very over weight by American 60 year old standards. My brother is a cardiologist working ICU shifts through the peak and said many guys in their late 50s and early 60s died in his Connecticut hospital and the only preexisting condition they had was high blood pressure to the point that he, as a cardiologist fears that high blood pressure medicine, which millions of people are on, and he prescribes to most of his patients, may be worsening the virus reaction in some patients. All on ventilators. The other person I know who died was over 80. I can think of 3 or 4 people who went to the hospital, 3 men, 54 to 65 year olds, and went home. Did not get to the ventilator stage.

    My college age son had the virus and brought it home from his Ivy League college and gave it to me. I am 51. My case was a headache behind the eyes for a week. Some aches and pains. No real cough. We both now have been tested and have the antibodies. The rest of the large family did not get it.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    , @Anonymous
  214. @AnotherDad

    RC, i thought you were the language policing guy. Clearly and grammatically the “oven” clause in question modifies “hers”–which is a mask, not a wife.

    I was aware of that, too, but thought the joke was worth it.

    One can wear two hats. Gen. George Babbitt, Jr, played a mean set of drums.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_T._Babbitt_Jr.

  215. Erik L says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Wow. I have a friend who is an Anesthesiologist who told me that one of his contacts (yeah I know, starts to sound like urban legend) that back in September Fischer Paykel received a huge order from China for essentially all their ventilator repair parts

  216. Mr. Anon says:
    @botazefa

    A virus needs something to ride on like mucus droplets aerosolized and ejected by a sneeze. Sure, the sneeze may travel 20′ before falling downward, but the odds of directly inhaling it out of the ambient air seems very small.

    They don’t have to be “mucus droplets” but can just be water droplets. If bathroom surfaces can be covered in germs that get there from a toilet being flushed – and yet you never see the aerosol

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4692156/

    than it seems quite likely that virons, riding water droplets you can’t see can land directly in your trachea after having been exhaled or coughed out by someone.

    Of course the person-to-surface-to-person transmission that you described is probably also likely.

  217. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    Any business that mandates customers wear mouth diapers will cease to exist.

    So you think Costco will cease to exist? Or will they attract even more shoppers now that people know Costco is a safer place to shop? I think it’s the latter.

    when it turned out a recent super-spreader went to three gay discos in one night.

    Looks like the lunacy of globohomo has infected SK in a big way. Do they have a high HIV infection rate as well? Speaking of, I wonder if those who are HIV+ are dying from coronavirus at a higher rate due to immuno compromise?

  218. epebble says:
    @botazefa

    This isn’t TB

    Actually, tuberculosis is much harder to catch (it is the hardest respiratory disease to catch by infection), has a vaccine (BCG) and fairly easy to cure with antibiotics (it is a bacterial disease); unless it is the multi-drug resistant (MDR) kind. In contrast, Covid is considerably easier to catch and has no known cure or vaccine (and may never have one since it is viral e.g. Common Cold). Another much feared but fairly benign (in sense of hard to catch and easier to cure) infections disease is Hansen’s disease (leprosy).

  219. vhrm says:
    @botazefa

    Breathing and talking produce aerosols also and they hang out in the air for minutes to hours.

    Walking around the mall parking lot, you’re right, you’re not likely to breathe in enough to matter.

    Spending time in low ventilation places with other people increases the odds of transmission.

    This article is a decent review of evidence that it transmits this way. You can click through to the full journal article.
    https://www.newswise.com/coronavirus/study-finds-breathing-and-talking-contribute-to-covid-19-spread/?article_id=731240

  220. @peterike

    At a better restaurant the chef, line cooks, etc. are culinary school graduates, and they are white, Asian, upper tier Hispanics, a few blacks.

    Agreed. My niece and her BF are cooks and very passionate about working in restaurants despite the crappy hours and pay.

    Most chain food tastes like it was microwaved. In fact, my cousin, who has worked in restaurants for 30+ years, told me it is quire possible to have a restaurant where most of the food is simply microwaved.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  221. nebulafox says:
    @AnotherDad

    She can get the knocked up part over with discretely with her fiancee now, and then have the wedding in a few months?

  222. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Erik L

    Chinese buy “everything in the world you could possibly imagine” and send it to China, all the time. I mean, even stuff made in China. Because it costs less to buy it in America.

    But it’s not dumping. Of course not. Heavens no. And if it was, they’re benefiting us anyway because low price. It’s out of the goodness of their hearts, you racist troublemaking nationalist pig, you.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  223. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    Read this piece by Gabrielle Hamilton.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/magazine/closing-prune-restaurant-covid.html

    She is not my type of person but you still have to sympathize.

    She was a widely acclaimed chef but even before Covid she couldn’t afford health insurance despite charging NY prices ($26-32 for an entree) in her restaurant. The economics of small restaurants in high rent cities just don’t work and in a place like NY there are a million restaurants dividing up the business.

    • Replies: @Peterike
  224. @Bud Fox

    “high blood pressure medicine, which millions of people are on, and he prescribes to most of his patients, may be worsening the virus reaction in some patients.”

    As a 75 year old male on high blood pressure medications, I hope somebody is investigating this!

  225. Peterike says:
    @Jack D

    While I dislike the too tightly packed tables, Prune has good food. These people work hard as hell, yet shits like Cuomo and DeBlasio are blithely destroying their lives with casual extensions of the stupid lockdown, and then they’ll impose six foot seating rules which will kill whatever restaurants make it through the lockdown.

    On the other hand, every destroyed restaurant owner in NYC will blame Trump. Well at least they can enjoy their moment when the (deliberate) corona panic costs Trump the election. Maybe the destruction of their life’s work will be worth it to get rid of Drumpf.

    • Agree: sayless
    • Replies: @prosa123
  226. Anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @yakushimaru

    For nationalism to succeed, to be respectable, you gotta stop this. It is the nationalism of cowards and shamelessness when the first thing on your mind is to blame the foreigners.

    Could you elaborate on this? What exactly needs to stop, but, more importantly, what needs to start?

  227. Anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    “Quarantines don’t work.”
    “What we have to watch out for is bias.”
    “Go visit Chinatown.”

    The most important thing is preventing another Holocaust, AnotherDad.

  228. Corvinus says:
    @RadicalCenter

    “Of those 37 people, how many have died?”

    It’s not a matter of White House officials keeling over, it’s a matter that they are being infected because Trump and company choose not to practice social distancing and not wear masks. How is that going to instill confidence in him to get the economy back on its feet if they refuse to follow basic health protocols? Should not the White House be more transparent about the extent of Covid-19 in their midst?

    Wait, that’s right, it’s all a hoax… (snicker-snack)

  229. Corvinus says:
    @AnotherDad

    We do have separate nations. We do have nationalism. You just don’t prefer the brand.

    “Internationalism, immigrationism, diversity lead to different peoples–different norms, mores, values, cultures–jammed together and ergo to contention and conflict.”

    It’s not as bad you think it is.

  230. sayless says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I got it, and my godmother whom I live with got it. My case was mild, the main symptoms are balance problems and mental fog. But it almost killed my godmother, whose immune system is suppressed. It also I think set off an episode of shingles. Her doctors didn’t want her to go to the hospital; she was prescribed azithromycin and felt better within a few hours.

    I think it’s true that living in New York City makes people think that it’s a nation-wide crisis.

    De Blasio and Cuomo really did not handle it very well.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
  231. @Kratoklastes

    The Zimbabwe government thought printing money and spending it would magically make wealth appear.

    I’m a big fan of Zimbabwe – because of their monetary geniuses, I’m a multi-trillionaire in dollar* terms.

    Half-Asleep Chris explains the security features on the ten trillion dollar note. You don’t want anyone counterfeiting a banknote worth 4¢, do you?

  232. Anonymous[930] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    In Japan, where the government encouraged mass sales of electronics to the US at cost or even in some segments at a loss (for awhile) to “ build market share”, that is, drive out domestic suppliers, they realized people would try reimporting the artificially cheap items and it would wreck the cost structure.

    So nontariff means were used. For “safety” all electronics sold in Japan had to be 100 volt ONLY. Not multi-voltage. There could not be a selector switch.

    You could not even have multiple primary taps on a power transformer.

    Now, 6:5 ratio power isoformers are readily sold for conversion, but who wants to have to always have a second bulky unit around? Enterprising Japanese would get a US service person to buy for them or holiday in Hawaii, but those were barriers enough to mostly keep export goods from impacting JDM prices.

  233. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Erik L

    Do we know the Chinese sent all the masks back to China or is this an anecdote or supposition?

    This is Unz Review. Nobody here cares about backing claims with evidence. People here will believe anything at all as long as it reflects badly on some group that they hate.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  234. @dfordoom

    The prestige press documented it in Australia. Canada and US seem reluctant to look into it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  235. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    You restore consumer confidence by 1) getting the spread under control the way New Zealand and Australia did so that there is only a 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 10,000 chance OR 2) coming up with a vaccine in a timely manner. The U.S. is so incompetent that I don’t see either happening soon.

    Yep. It is possible to get the spread under control but you need competent government. Countries with competent governments are mostly doing just fine. Countries without competent government are most likely headed for a grim immediate future.

    The saddest case is that of Britain, doing all the right things to halt the spread but doing so long after the situation had gotten completely out of control by which time it was way too late. When it comes to incompetence Boris Johnson is certainly in a class of his own.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  236. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bud Fox

    My college age son had the virus and brought it home from his Ivy League college and gave it to me.

    Did you know he was sick when he came home? Was he at a school in New York City?

    • Replies: @Bud Fox
  237. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    Agreed. My niece and her BF are cooks and very passionate about working in restaurants despite the crappy hours and pay.

    What do they like so much about it?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @sayless
  238. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    That isn’t a lie. There is little scientific evidence that wearing a mask in public protects the wearer.

    Especially if the wearer doesn’t know the correct way to put the mask on and take it off, doesn’t know that the mask isn’t much use if it doesn’t fit properly and doesn’t know that if you start handling the mask after taking it off you might as well have not bothered wearing it. So it’s possible that overall masks do more harm than good.

    But they’re a great way to virtue-signal.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @vhrm
  239. @dfordoom

    Wearing a mask does other people some good. But Je Suis’s pals don’t care about that.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  240. @Anonymous

    Liking to be able to cook delicious food seems pretty self-explanatory.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  241. @dfordoom

    I get the impression Boris hasn’t been 100% healthy lately.

  242. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AnotherDad

    Nationalism creates peace. It is imperialism, colonialism, “diversity”, globalism–various form of “internationalism”–that create conflict.

    Nationalism has a nasty habit of turning into imperialism. Nationalism also seems to attract psychologically unhealthy people. As one commenter on UR (and no I’m afraid I don’t recall which one) put it a while back, nationalism is all too often a way for inadequate people to feel better about themselves. It does tend to attract losers.

    I’m not sure that any kind of identity politics (and nationalism is simply a kind of identity politics) is very healthy.

  243. 22pp22 says:
    @Keypusher

    I have just visited your comment thread. You are a very angry and unhappy person. Life’s too short to be so full of bile.

  244. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer

    Wearing a mask does other people some good. But Je Suis’s pals don’t care about that.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not necessarily opposed to mask-wearing – I’m just concerned that for most people they’re probably of limited usefulness because most people treat them as magical protection talismans and don’t understand how they work.

    Protecting others is certainly the strongest argument for masks. Maybe they provide some limited protection for others even if they’re not used properly?

    The most depressing thing about COVID-19 is that it’s revealing a very dark side to human nature. Even a rather nasty side. I don’t like our species quite as much as I used to!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  245. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The prestige press documented it in Australia. Canada and US seem reluctant to look into it.

    Because it could stir nationalist (or even White nationalist) sentiment in the United States. Which would increase the risk of another Holocaust.

    It’s the same reason the media suppresses reporting of black-on-white violence.

  246. @dfordoom

    Maybe they provide some limited protection for others even if they’re not used properly?

    That’s my impression. If you are a doctor and you have infectious people coughing and sneezing on you while you intubate them, you really need a good fitting mask for your own protection. However, if you are the infected one who is coughing and sneezing, even a mediocre fitted mask will stop most of the droplets from shooting across the room. Sure, some will leak out the sides backwards, but that’s less dangerous to other people than a direct-on blast.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  247. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Liking to be able to cook delicious food seems pretty self-explanatory.

    I’m not sure it self-evidently explains why they would endure crappy hours and crappy pay. Cooking delicious food can be done in one’s own home, for oneself, for guests, or for other community social events.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @sayless
  248. @Anonymous

    I ate in Charlie Trotter’s kitchen in 2000. He was pretty tough on his 30 chefs. But I see the names of various guys who were cooks in that kitchen in articles about the Future of Cuisine. It’s kind of like working in Rubens’ workshop: a demanding job, but maybe you’ll turn out to be Van Dyke.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  249. @Steve Sailer

    There is that, and they also liked to experiment with recipes, which is easier to do when you have a base knowledge of cooking.

  250. prosa123 says:
    @Peterike

    Recently the NYC media has been full of caterwauling over the demise of Gem Spa on St. Mark’s Place. It wasn’t an actual spa, but basically a newsstand/convenience store that was a major gathering spot for counterculture types when the East Village was a happening place in the 1980’s. In recent years it had become dependent mainly on cigarette and lottery sales with a few tourist knickknacks. Gem Spa is now getting all sorts of attention as yet another beloved institution/cultural icon brought down by the pandemic.
    Well, heck. Last year Gem Spa nearly went out of business after its cigarette license was suspended for an underage sale, and had to be rescued by crowdfunding. It soon after had a second near death experience when the state suspended its lottery license for not remitting proceeds in a timely manner. In early March, just before the virus hit, it already was behind on its rent and sales tax remittances. I also got the impression that the owner was less than enthusiastic about running the business, a couple of years ago she had to give up her corporate career to take it over from her father after he became sick, which I guess is something a dutiful Indian daughter is expected to do.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  251. @prosa123

    St. Mark’s Place was like the scummiest place in non-homicidal Manhattan when I was looking for a job in 1982. Nobody would go further east back then. Now it’s just about the safest place.

  252. @botazefa

    Jeff Goldblum, the guy who plays himself, badly.

    As opposed to Kevin Costner, who plays himself well.

    • LOL: botazefa
  253. Bud Fox says:
    @Anonymous

    My college age son had the virus and brought it home from his Ivy League college and gave it to me.

    Did you know he was sick when he came home? Was he at a school in New York City?

    We did not know he was sick. They announced on March 9 that students have to leave by March 15th. Kids partied a bit it seems before they left. We picked him up March 15, he had a headache March 20th. A few kids on his student and team group texts had tested positive around the country, all fairly mild cases. He drove to New Rochelle without an appointment and they let him get a test. I got the headache March 25th and tried to get a test but they would not test me since I was not sick enough. He goes to Princeton an hour from New York City, in the middle of New Jersey closer to Philadelphia. Many colleges sent sick kids home to their much higher risk parents.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  254. vhrm says:
    @dfordoom

    Especially if the wearer doesn’t know the correct way to put the mask on and take it off, doesn’t know that the mask isn’t much use if it doesn’t fit properly and doesn’t know that if you start handling the mask after taking it off you might as well have not bothered wearing it.

    Why do you think so?
    Afaict this boiler plate about the difficulty of putting on and taking off masks is of limited applicability to this coronavirus.

    This isn’t a situation where if you let a contaminated particle touch your skin you’re infected.

    It’s a numbers game about limiting the amount of virus you’re exposed to and especially how much you get internally esp deep in your lungs. (1)

    Let’s say you get the virus on your hands when you take off the mask. So what? you wash or disinfect your hands and you’re done.

    Also , in increasing levels of hassle you’re willing to go through,
    -wash your face including the entrance of your nose. -gargle with saltwater
    -flush your sinuses with saltwater

    1) only “maybe” . on the deep lung vs, e.g. eye contact.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  255. Rob McX says:

    I’m not sure that any kind of identity politics (and nationalism is simply a kind of identity politics) is very healthy.

    I don’t think you can have politics without nationalism. People gravitate towards their own race or tribe and support what’s good for their co-ethnics. Of course, if they’re living in a homogeneous monoracial state, they may not notice this, because they’re not in direct competition with other races.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  256. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bud Fox

    Thanks. Glad you are both better. It must be nice to have the antibodies.

    Interesting about the headache. I haven’t seen that mentioned much as a symptom.

  257. Anonymous[437] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    If I could interject here, because I am concerned that some of these discussions are leading you to unduly negative feelings toward some of the commenters here, perhaps causing you to develop a (possibly erroneous) sense that we do not care about your health or that of our other fellow citizens.

    On the question of masks, yes it is plausible that they provide protection to the wearer. However, it is also plausible that in practice they do more harm than good. People may not be conscientious in taking them off and putting them on with care, or in handling them with clean hands, and could end up contaminating the mask (which ends up close to their face and mouth) or contaminating their hands from the mask (and then touching their face). There is also the theory that it could provide a false sense of security, and lead people to be less vigilant in their other practices.

    Again, plausible. You could see it going either way. Maybe the pro-mask view is slightly stronger.

    But beyond our common sense intuitions and reasoning, there is the question of scientific evidence. Are there any field studies out there (testing mask use in the real world) that demonstrate protection to the wearer from a virus like this, that back your view that they are helpful? The CDC/WHO/Surgeon General I believe have referred to the “evidence” as not pointing to any net benefits from masks to the wearer. What do those studies say? I doubt they would have outright lied about that. And again, it is a plausible result.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  258. dfordoom says: • Website
    @vhrm

    Why do you think so?

    It seems logical to me but I’m no expert.

    Let’s say you get the virus on your hands when you take off the mask. So what? you wash or disinfect your hands and you’re done.

    Sure, but do most people understand that it’s necessary (or at the very least a good idea) to disinfect their hands after removing the mask? I’m not saying you need expert knowledge in infection control procedures to use a mask but I think you do need at least some very basic knowledge.

    Another slight concern is that if people think that masks offer more protection than they actually do offer this may give them a false sense of security which might lead them to do other risky things.

    On the whole I can see that you and Steve are making valid points – even improperly used masks are probably better than nothing and may have some usefulness.

    I personally haven’t bothered with the mask thing because I live in Australia where the virus has been very effectively brought under control. But even here I can see an argument for people in certain occupations (such as food preparation) to wear them. Or for people whose job entails a lot of contact with other people.

    I’d like to see cops forced to wear them. Not because it will achieve anything. I just like the idea of cops being inconvenienced and humiliated, because they get so much pleasure out of inconveniencing and humiliating other people.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  259. @Anonymous

    Masks are beneficial to others.

    And giving people a sense of security so they go back to performing economic activities instead of just hiding at home is good.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @dfordoom
  260. Anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Masks are beneficial to others.

    Well, yes in many situations, but that is not the group to whom the authorities being accused of lying were referring when they said the evidence was mixed to negative regarding masks.

    On the question of harm to others, what if a cashier or food service worker is constantly touching the moist mask on his face and then handling food or merchandise?

  261. Anonymous[710] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    I personally haven’t bothered with the mask thing because I live in Australia where the virus has been very effectively brought under control.

    How did Australia achieve that?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  262. sayless says:
    @Anonymous

    There’s a kind of exaltation high in a busy restaurant kitchen, it can take a few hours to unwind from it. Michael Anton has written about this. People can come to crave it.

  263. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Rob McX

    People gravitate towards their own race or tribe and support what’s good for their co-ethnics.

    Sometimes. People do usually gravitate towards a group with which they identify but that’s just as likely to be a social class or an ideological grouping as a race or tribe.

    I don’t think you can have politics without nationalism.

    You can certainly have a successful civilised state without nationalism. The Habsburg empire is an obvious example.

    And you can have an unsuccessful uncivilised state with nationalism.

    There are arguments for and against nationalism. Maybe the pros outweigh the cons. I have mixed feelings on the subject.

  264. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer

    And giving people a sense of security so they go back to performing economic activities instead of just hiding at home is good.

    That’s possibly the single strongest argument in favour of masks.

  265. MEH 0910 says:

  266. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    I personally haven’t bothered with the mask thing because I live in Australia where the virus has been very effectively brought under control.

    How did Australia achieve that?

    It’s partly because the federal government and the state governments are managing to work together reasonably well. Australian governments responded fairly quickly. They closed the internal borders (between the states) pretty quickly. We have a functional health system. That’s a major factor. The health system has continued to operate efficiently. We have a functional aged care system.

    We have lockdowns but at least in my part of the country they haven’t been enforced in a draconian manner. Small businesses have mostly stayed open. People try to do social distancing but aren’t fanatical about it. It’s only a few younger people who are really panicking and even they are not going overboard about it. There’s certainly no sign of any widespread hysteria. Australians generally don’t do hysteria.

    We treated the problem mostly as a public health issue rather than a political issue.

    God knows Australian politicians have their faults but they’re rarely actually corrupt. And they haven’t encouraged hysteria. The media has been pretty bad but Australians tend to have a culture of scepticism without cynicism. We hate our politicians but we don’t think they’re out to get us. There’s been a fair amount of common sense.

    Australia is overall a functional society, and a pragmatic one. Mostly people have coöperated with social distancing guidelines. We don’t have people ostentatiously ignoring rules about large gatherings.

    Of course we’ve had some luck. We can close our borders very effectively if we need to. We have a lot of suburban sprawl. Being under house arrest in the suburbs is a lot better than being under house arrest in an apartment building.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @anon
  267. Anonymous[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Thank you. Do you think we can do this in America?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  268. anon[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    We treated the problem mostly as a public health issue rather than a political issue.

    So did the US. Did you know that the demographics of Australia and the demographics of the US are not exactly the same? The geography isn’t the same, either.

    When your government shut down flights from China, did your mass media go ape screaming “RACISM!”? How many of your politicians encouraged mass gatherings during Chinese New Year?

    The list of differences goes on and on, all you have to do is read this site.

    Plus I doubt any of Oz’s politicians were stupid enough to send sick people into nursing homes. It takes a special American to do that, and frankly Gov. Cuomo of NY is responsible for thousands of dead old people. He finally reversed that order in the last 7 days, but that’s small comfort. His popularity is still quite high, a benefit of being in a one-party state with a lapdog press.

    Oh, one more thing: how many hundred million Aussies are there, and what percentage of them are descended from Africans? There’s another difference.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Anonymous
  269. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Thank you. Do you think we can do this in America?

    No.

  270. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    The list of differences goes on and on, all you have to do is read this site.

    Yes that’s true. I was talking mainly about the positive factors in Australia’s favour. You’re talking about the negative factors that counted against the US. Which of course is just the flip side of the same coin I guess.

    Obviously the US has many many serious problems and seems to be pretty much a dysfunctional society with dysfunctional government at this point. You also seem to have a lot of problems that simply can’t be fixed.

    I did briefly touch on Australia’s geographical advantages. The reason we have lots of suburban sprawl is because we have enough space to accommodate suburban sprawl. And living in suburban sprawl seems to be a factor in limiting the spread of the virus. And I did mention the fact that Australia’s borders are easily closed which of course is the result of geography. And yes, having a small population well spread out is an advantage although it’s worth pointing out that Australia’s size is a bit of an illusion – the inhabitable parts of the country are not as extensive as might be imagined.

    I guess it’s fair to say that Australia was always going to get off lightly as far as the virus was concerned unless we did something really silly. Which we didn’t. If we’d had an idiot like Boris Johnson in charge we might still have had a disaster. We were lucky, and we have a functional society, and we didn’t screw up.

    Australia has a right-wing government at the moment. New Zealand has a left-wing government. Both countries handled the crisis effectively. So it’s not ideology that matters, but governmental competence.

    • Replies: @anon
  271. anon[268] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Australia is an island with a rather small population. New Zealand is two islands with a rather small population. Iceland is an island with a population of a medium US city. Taiwan is in good shape. Singapore is still in pretty good shape.

    Maybe being an island nation provides some advantages with regard to a pandemic regardless of the politics of the government?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Anonymous
  272. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    Maybe being an island nation provides some advantages with regard to a pandemic regardless of the politics of the government?

    Yes, obviously if you have Australia’s geographical advantages and you have moderately competent government you should be fine.

    If you don’t have Australia’s geographical advantages then you need really really competent government.

    Britain is an island nation and hasn’t done too well.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  273. @dfordoom

    Thanks for your contributions, which I have found illuminating and accurate. The following is probably well-known to you, but I’m posting it here for other readers, particularly my fellow Americans.

    If we’re at war with China (and I believe we are, though–as with the War on White People–only one side’s fighting) at least we’re not alone. China and Australia are definitely coming to blows. Correction: China and the World, only I mean the parts of the World China hasn’t bought yet. The Chinese may be evil, but they are not fools, and they’re buying the World the same way they bought the WHO and much of the USA: on the cheap.

    [MORE]

    China has imposed an import ban on four Australian beef processors, an escalation of trade tensions that may be tied to Australia’s push for an independent inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus.

    The blacklisting of the processors follows a threat made last month by China’s ambassador to Australia, Cheng Jingye, who called the inquiry proposal a “dangerous” move that could lead to a Chinese boycott of beef, wine, universities and tourism.

    In a joint statement, Australia’s trade and agriculture ministers said the beef suspensions appeared to be based on highly technical issues.

    “We’ve been speaking with industry leaders, colleagues and departments overnight,” the ministers said, adding that they were working with Chinese officials to “find a solution that allows these businesses to resume their normal operations.”

    If the ban continues, the economic cost could be severe. Beef sales to China were worth $1.85 billion in 2019, up from $883 million in 2018.

    Trade experts said that while small disputes over certification and other issues are a common feature in bilateral relations, China may also be signaling its discontent after a period of growing frustration that started before the pandemic. Australia has accused China of dumping steel, banned the Chinese companies Huawei and ZTE from supplying its 5G network and passed laws against foreign interference in its politics.

    The beef ban, announced on Sunday night, arrived on the same day that the Chinese government warned of its plans to impose a tariff of up to 80 percent on Australian barley in relation to an anti-dumping investigation that began 18 months ago.

    “It’s China trying to send a political signal that Australia needs to reconsider its position in foreign affairs,” said Weihuan Zhou, a senior lecturer in international law at the University of New South
    Wales. “I don’t think there will be a change to the current situation unless there is a dramatic political change in Australia.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/business/stock-market-today-coronavirus.html

    How dare Australia pass laws curtailing foreign interference in their politics?

    Hang tough, Ozzies.

  274. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    When your government shut down flights from China, did your mass media go ape screaming “RACISM!”? How many of your politicians encouraged mass gatherings during Chinese New Year?

    We had virtue signalling politicians who made a point of eating at Chinese restaurants, for example. I have to think that Chinese money is greasing a lot of political palms by the way many of the party members suck up to China. They would never behave the same to white people as an ethnic group.

    Oh, one more thing: how many hundred million Aussies are there, and what percentage of them are descended from Africans? There’s another difference.

    To the extent there is political will to shut off interstate travel (not transport), you can compartmentalize the problem and make it easier to solve in total. Or at least you can shut off transport to some places until they get their s*** together.

    There are a reasonable number of Sudanese and Somali here but nothing like African Americans in number. Again, you are dealing with people who often aren’t distributed equally in the population. One might need to institute intrastate borders for purposes of infection restriction. If the black areas can’t get under control, don’t let them have nice things. I think if people can work together to achieve an outcome that is mutually beneficial, then there is reasonable chance to do so.

    USA has some advantages too. Wealth/capita for one. Presumably you should be able to gear up for testing, even testing every single citizen, rinse, repeat, until you know where the infections are and isolate them. You could militarize the borders with your military. You could mass produce masks and mask material, and distribute them all over as part of the solution. With an Eisenhower or FDR-like president, it could be done I think.

  275. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Singapore is 8th vs US 11th in cases per capita. In terms of deaths per capita they are doing amazing. It’s due to having a lot of smart, wealthy people on average, IMO. However, they tried to be too cute with their virus response. Late in shutting borders, late to push masks (only for sick people), I think their social distancing for their 3rd world guest workers wasn’t very good either.

  276. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:

    PC has brainwashed Australians into being happy to give away our country, and not give the cold shoulder to the traitors here who gladly sell out their country. (Thanks Jews.) I think now there is some belated understanding that, gee, maybe we were a bit foolish to allow our country to become ~10% Chinese within the space of a decade or two. Now they influence our politics, buy up our assets, control our universities, send our PPE overseas.

    Whether anything comes of it, good question. Every time someone does go off and says what a lot of people think, some SJW will cover the story about how white people bad. Just one of the many over the years:

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/bystanders-shut-down-woman-during-racist-rant-in-melbourne/news-story/72640f1274a6fa66a41c66332001ec00

    It’s all so tiresome.

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