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How Risky Are "Unidirectional Seating" Venues Like Airplanes and Theaters?
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It sounds like a big question that we need to answer is the relative risk of infection in which everybody is seated facing the same direction (e.g., airplanes, movie theaters, sports events, school buses, barber chairs, country line dancing) as opposed to venues with people facing each other (restaurants, cocktail parties, some subways, waltzing).

Unidirectional seating

My guess is that uni-directional facing is somewhat less risky than facing together or in semi-random directions like a NYC subway. If you cough, you cough into the back of the person’s head in front of you rather than into his face.

Another question is how important is the height of the seatback? For example, airliners have tall seats, while yellow school buses have low seats.

Also, what is more risky in a unidirectional facing situation: side to side transmission or back to front transmission? E.g., would you rather have an empty seat directly behind you or to the side of you?

As I’ve been pointing out for a long time now, the economic collapse isn’t solely because of government mandated shutdowns, but also because of choices made by consumers and businesses about their perceptions of risk. Therefore, we need more good research into levels of risk in different situations, and clever ideas for how to mitigate the risks.

It would do the economy a lot of good for the public to have more reliable information on what activities are relatively low risk and what are high risk, so that low risk businesses aren’t needlessly harmed, and higher risk businesses can set about making helpful changes.

Airlines, which have been running lots of practically empty flights lately at huge cost to themselves, are now starting to cut the number of flights severely, which means that the ones they do run tend to be much more crowded than they were a few weeks ago.

There has been vague talk about how to mitigate risk in assigned seating venues like airliners by distancing people in their seats, which would require running at less than full capacity.

Say a one aisle airliner has 40 rows with 6 seats across in each row for a capacity of 240. Which of the following distanced seating plan would make you more comfortable relative to capacity reduction?

A. Skipping middle seats (P for Passenger, X for blocked off)

PXP PXP
PXP PXP
PXP PXP
PXP PXP

For 2/3 of full capacity

B. Skipping every other row:

PPP PPP
XXX XXX
PPP PPP
XXX XXX

For 50% capacity

C. Alternating patterns by row:

PXP PXP
XPX XPX
PXP PXP
XPX XPX

for 50% capacity

D. Alternating by seat and by row:

PXX PXX
XPX XPX
XXP XXP

for 33% capacity.

Or some other clever plan?

 
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  1. Anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    This site may as well be a UFO conspiracy theory blog at this point.

    Disappointing. Steve could be talking about the real story. Insane people losing their minds, insane public policy, etc.

    Its over, Steve. This virus is a joke.

    • LOL: Federalist
    • Troll: Meretricious
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Anonymous

    "It's over, Steve. This virus is a joke."

    Unfortunately, the Fu Manchu Virus (FMV) is not a joke. But judging by this post, it's clear our beloved Steve has lost the plot. He needs to get out of his closet, away from the em radiation, and spend more time with Tiny Duck.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  2. … which means that the ones they do run tend to be much more crowded than they were a few weeks ago.

    Nope, that is not the case though, Steve. Even with something like 15 to 20% of the normal DOMESTIC flight schedules, the planes are 10-40% full. 20-25 paying passengers on a Douglas 717 that seats 110 and 9 on a 50 seat regional jet, are what I saw today. It’s been like that. Everyone can have his own row and not only that perhaps his own whole row across 1/2 the time.

    I get your interest in the seating arrangements though. Best would be everyone by the window seats first. On the 717, that’d be 1/3 full*, which the planes aren’t. On that RJ, it means 1/2 full, which the flights most certainly have not been. The airport terminals are like ghost towns, with various concourses closed off.

    .

    * Actually a tad more, because there were 3 rows (I think) of 1st class with 4 abreast.

  3. I had a return flight at the outset of CV mania. Only about 15% of that’s day’s flights were cancelled, all on routes with multiple daily flights.

    My plane was at about 5% capacity. We “self organized” into 1 person per 2-3 rows with the back half nearly empty.

    Probably the airline employees had to be paid anyway and refunds would be required on cancelled flights, so that’s why we had a months of wasteful near-empty flights.

    • Replies: @North Carolina Resident
    @Lot

    One other reason for near-empty flights... Airlines must fly routes or risk losing landing/takeoff time slots. Those rules have been suspended, as they were post 9/11 and a few other times.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  4. Would you please lisren again to Johan
    Giesecke who I think you’ve already quoted extensively:

    And then get yourself a beer, put away your slide rule, and start writing interesting stuff again. Please? For both of our sakes.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @TorontoTraveller

    Mr. Sailer has been writing interesting and relevant things on this particular subject. Now, Dr. Giesecke certainly has the credentials and make several key points, but is it not possible that he could be mistaken in his overall assessment?

    Perhaps it would be helpful him and other medical experts from around the world to compare their philosophies on how to deal with this pandemic.

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @TorontoTraveller

    Steve should continue his exploration of the FMV, but he does need to reengage his other interests. Perhaps more for his sake than ours.

  5. Your patterns are interesting to consider, but research aside, it really isn’t so much up to the airlines even if they had the best data in the world. People will sit where they feel they are safest. Nobody’s going to tell them to get back in their original seats now.

    (Yeah, some passengers might like to know the answers you seek here, but then all it takes is one coughing, sneezing guy to ruin the best laid plans.)

  6. Or some other clever plan?

    LOL. C’mon, Steve, really: Forget busywork bogus schemes with unquantifiable results. Relax. In due time, everyone will be issued the appropriate headgear and we’ll get this country moving again.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Hmmmm



    https://main-designyoutrust.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/corona-filter-52-5e342d7ce8b55__700.jpg?iv=112

    https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/coronavirus-masks2.jpg

    https://st1.latestly.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Coronavirus-outbreak-prevention-784x441.jpg

    https://st1.latestly.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Coronavirus-outbreak-prevention-784x441.jpg

    Replies: @hhsiii

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    They could just let everyone use the emergency oxygen mask for the whole flight.

  7. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:

    Especially in an airplane, and even in a theater or concert hall, you are kind of stuck in your seat, and every third or forth time you’ll have someone right by you who coughs. Are you prepared to stand up in the middle of a symphony, scoot over seven people’s knees, and do the long walk up the aisle in front of 2,000 pissed-off people as the orchestra reaches a crescendo?

    Not that any concert hall is going to get 2,000 suicidal people to attend any time soon.

    Honestly, who cares about movie theaters and airplanes? Good riddance. The movie theater was dying off anyway before the pandemic. And people shouldn’t be flying. Let’s put that in the past, and not for climate change, but for keeping people in one place as much as possible. If you really need to go somewhere else, spring for a corporate charter. It’s the same for food: We should be paying more for produce and for restaurant meals. Cheap food is what is sustaining illegal immigration. Construction also. Things should just cost more. That solves a lot of problems. There will be higher paying jobs for Americans, who will be paying more for stuff.

    • Agree: Coemgen, Meretricious
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Hakan Rotmwrt's Biogeographic Quarantine achieved!

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @Anonymous
    @Anon

    Separate from your paleo-trad-terroir symbolic reason, there's an argument for letting the passenger airline industry ca. 2020 go out of business. It's basically a sop to blue-metro politicians as is (over half an economy ticket goes just to pay off the two airports & their respective unions). And while they may be justified complaining over probably stupid FAA edicts -- oddly enough in conjunction with their obscene expenditures on lobbying -- it ain't as if they're trying to deliver a better service. The no-frills carriers e.g. Spirit are truly testing the definition of "not a frill."

    Let the old business die and see what replaces it. It's not self-evident why flinging people up into the sky for the sake of playing on/supporting college teams or affectation of a NYLON dolce vita should be priced at weekly consumption rates.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Anon

    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.

    https://twitter.com/neilmunrodc/status/1253122748450308097?s=21

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    , @AnotherDad
    @Anon

    Cheap food and airline flights and housing are nice things that come with more knowledge (how to do things more efficiently) and the capital accumulation done by our ancestors and ourselves. (Most--normal--people don't want to get up before sunrise to milk the cows and scratch the earth all day for a living.)

    In contrast allowing immigration is deeply unnatural and a political choice that is being driven by greedy cheap labor swilling goons, ethnic resentments and the the parasite party's lust for power.

    Mass immigration doesn't provide cheap anything for the average American. It simply steals from the average American--giving his birthright, his posterities birthright to foreigners and more powerful, disloyal "Americans" who hate him.

  8. Anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:

    This Covid-Crisis is like Sailer-Paradise. His training as statistician and pattern-recognition expert is in full gear in approaching the problem from so many angles and then some.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  9. Related. Was at a Wendy’s today. The drive through window had plexiglass similar to what is being used in the supermarket. However; since the plexiglass stops above where the food and money is exchanged it is essentially of no use. Why? Because the direct avenue of transmission from driver to attendant and vice versa is unobstructed.

    Clearly a case of safety theatre.

    But that is what’s going on. A lot of safety theatre and not a lot of safety logic. Clearly the data shows and has shown that general outdoors activity is very safe. There should be lifting of all prohibitions of use of public outdoor spaces that are not concerts and the like.

    I think for spaces like movie theatres there should be a closure of every other row and people strongly encouraged to not sit next to people who are strangers to them. My larger concern would be AC systems. I look at a movie theatre as a mini cruise. Confined space with artificial air maintenance. How long is too long in such a situation?

    Similar for work places in offices. How long is too long and under what ventilation scenarios?

    Also given the demographics of those who are most affected by Wuhan, might it be prudent to put some restrictions on persons with certain BMIs and health conditions? Should companies be given broad immunity from lawsuits if they hire or otherwise allow to work people in higher risk categories who fall sick presumably from a work derived infection? I think a lot of companies are closed not only due to govt orders but legal issues that could arise from asking employees to do their jobs.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @sondjata


    I think for spaces like movie theatres there should be a closure of every other row and people strongly encouraged to not sit next to people who are strangers to them. My larger concern would be AC systems. I look at a movie theatre as a mini cruise. Confined space with artificial air maintenance. How long is too long in such a situation?
     
    In my local multi-plex, I'm usually sitting in a mostly empty theatre anyway, as I'm watching a matinee showing of a movie for grown-ups, not a comic-book movie.

    Changing seating in airlines isn't going to fly, so to speak. Reduce the seating density down to where mysophobes are comfortable with it, and it won't be economical. Airlines just won't offer the flights, not at prices that the common people can afford anyway. I'd be happy if they just reduced the density down to 1980s levels - for the extra legroom.
    , @epebble
    @sondjata

    Now that you have understood Wendy is all safety theatre, will you go there again? That is the more interesting and important question. We are all aware of traffic accidents but drive around. Where is the risk/reward equilibrium with Covid? I saw plenty of regular folks streaming into hair salons, restaurants and airplanes today (on TV); but dental hygienists are apprehensive about going back to work.

    Replies: @sondjata, @animalogic

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @sondjata


    Related. Was at a Wendy’s today. The drive through window had plexiglass similar to what is being used in the supermarket. However; since the plexiglass stops above where the food and money is exchanged it is essentially of no use. Why? Because the direct avenue of transmission from driver to attendant and vice versa is unobstructed.
     
    I went to Culver's. One pays at the window, where the cashier has gloves, then drives up to a space to wait for another worker to bring a closed-bag order to the car on foot.

    This sounds a bit safer. At any rate, even in normal times you don't want the same hands touching both the money and the food.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HONT41B5KLk&t=0m9s

    Replies: @Ozymandias

  10. @Anon
    Especially in an airplane, and even in a theater or concert hall, you are kind of stuck in your seat, and every third or forth time you'll have someone right by you who coughs. Are you prepared to stand up in the middle of a symphony, scoot over seven people's knees, and do the long walk up the aisle in front of 2,000 pissed-off people as the orchestra reaches a crescendo?

    Not that any concert hall is going to get 2,000 suicidal people to attend any time soon.

    Honestly, who cares about movie theaters and airplanes? Good riddance. The movie theater was dying off anyway before the pandemic. And people shouldn't be flying. Let's put that in the past, and not for climate change, but for keeping people in one place as much as possible. If you really need to go somewhere else, spring for a corporate charter. It's the same for food: We should be paying more for produce and for restaurant meals. Cheap food is what is sustaining illegal immigration. Construction also. Things should just cost more. That solves a lot of problems. There will be higher paying jobs for Americans, who will be paying more for stuff.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @AnotherDad

    Hakan Rotmwrt’s Biogeographic Quarantine achieved!

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    Curtis Yarvin’s 1492 solution.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1223875329112133633?s=21

  11. • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Joe Stalin

    https://www.ainonline.com/sites/default/files/styles/ain30_fullwidth_large/public/uploads/2020/04/screen_shot_2020-04-23_at_10.47.40_am.png?itok=vy3IF84P&timestamp=1587658820


    Italian aircraft seat and cabin interior supplier AvioInteriors has released a concept for a new seating solution designed to theoretically allow airlines to fill their middle seats amid Covid-19 concerns. Calling it a “kit-level solution” operators can install on existing seats to make close proximity safer, the company’s Glassafe and Janus products feature transparencies to create an isolated volume around the passenger to avoid or minimize the spread of germs between occupants.

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2020-04-23/aviointeriors-seating-innovation-addresses-covid-concerns
     
  12. It’s always bad sitting next to someone with a juicy cold. But I though the primary risk of getting sick on an airplane came from breathing recirculated air. Maybe all that airlines need to do to reduce viral transmission is retrofit better filters in the cabins.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @JimB

    It is my understanding that modern commercial aircraft already use UV lights and effective micro filters with interior air. And change it out fairly often. Tests show this is very effective.

    It is likely not very infectious inside unless your seatmate is sick. However, in order to board an aircraft you need at least an hour for check-in, luggage hand off (if) and TSA screening slowly shuffling in a long line. Then you normally wait around in a crowded terminal area with plastic seats surrounded cheek-jowl by fellow travelers.

    Then you jump up and line up again in a mob of people standing around and slowly shuffle down a long narrow hallway ("jetway") to get inside the aircraft.

    Leaving said aircraft, you stand up inside and slowly shuffle down said jetway back into the often crowded terminal again. Then if with luggage, stand around the carousel for that to arrive in another pushing, shoving mob.

    Then wait for transportation in another crowd, board a crowded shuttle, bus or train to get home.

    Being inside the aircraft is the cleanest safest part of the trip.

    Replies: @JimB

  13. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s time to get weaned off this virus thing. The bottom line is it’s going to break one way or another now and there is not much changing it. Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead. The rest……will be, it’s just do we drag it out or get it over with? Another six weeks or six months isn’t going to reform medical practice to use existing cheap drugs better or find a new wonder drug, at this point we know ventilators don’t help, and we are at “herd immunity minus fifty percent” so we’ll be there sooner or later anyway.

    The longer this charade drags on the more young people we lose, the more businesses we lose, the more lives we set back permanently in the vain hope of saving a few people who, sad to say, are on borrowed time anyway. Urge the specially vulnerable to self isolate for a month or two and spend a small fraction of the funds we’ve already spent to help them do it, and then let the rest of the herd get it and recover.

    And then use the lessons learned to do what we know we needed and wanted to do anyway, and be ruthless about it, as ruthless as Soros and the Emanuels and every other vicious leftist. It’s time to play ram-it-up-their-ass-with-no-vaseline politics. Ridicule them, attack them, make fools of them.

    Why isn’t every GOPe politician not calling Biden senile being called out on it? Biden IS senile, and everyone knows it. Why aren’t Chamber of Commerce Republicans being attacked from the right for their toadying and cucking? They’re as much or more why we don’t have domestic manufacturing as the Left is. We should be getting in a couple of whacks to the balls of the AMA and the states for artificially throttling the supply of doctors by limiting medical schools while we have the opportunity.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead.

    People keep saying this. Could somebody explain the logic behind this popular belief?

    This could be true if infection rates in nursing homes are higher than in the general population. That might be true. Is it?

    Otherwise, my impression is the infection tended to spread early among energetic, gregarious people, such as my go-to example of skiers. But I doubt if infected skiers are more likely to die of this than the average person if infected.

    Replies: @Mehen, @Bleuteaux, @Anon87

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous


    Why isn’t every GOP politician not calling Biden senile being called out on it? Biden IS senile, and everyone knows it.
     
    Of course Biden is senile, but he is just a stalking horse for the real candidate who we know is going to be a woman, who will take over after the inauguration. Biden wants Michelle, but apparently she does not want to run. My money is on Stacey Abrams, but it could be someone else.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/stacey-abramss-remarkable-campaign-for-vice-president/ar-BB139Zbd

    Once she is named, the real election campaign will start. Another subsidiary question is whether Pence remains the substitute for Trump.

    Replies: @J1234

  14. Its over, Steve. This virus is a joke.

    A Vietnam War’s worth of deaths, and we’re probably not at the midpoint yet. Without any intervention it probably would end up being a Civil War’s worth.

    This schism between the Covid-Avoidant and the Bug-Denialists isn’t something I expected to see on the alt-right.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lugash

    Yeah pops, it's just like the 'Nam!

    , @Ryan Andrews
    @Lugash

    There are "A Vietnam's War's" worth of deaths in the the country every 36 hours, corona virus or no corona virus; where are the [email protected] rational adults? This lockdown is shaping up to be the greatest man-made disaster in the history of the world.

    At the beginning of this sick farce, we were told that we needed to flatten-the-curve to prevent hospital overcrowding, and that the fatality rate may be as high as 3-4%. Even then, a lockdown seemed over-dramatic, but okay, if the army needed a few weeks to build some field hospitals, fine.

    Now, that we know that the fatality rate is somewhere between .1 and 1%, and models were off by an orders of magnitude (as is not unusual, by the way), and we're still locked down? And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating. In order to avoid (or more likely postpone) our annual death total rising from approx. 3 million (mostly old people) to maybe 3.5 million (again, mostly old people) we are canceling a third of the school year—and considering canceling the beginning of next year, forbidding children from playing with their friends, putting tens of millions out of work, forbidding essentially all forms of social entertainment (no eating-out, no going to movies, no sports events, no concerts, no festivals, etc.), risking a second great depression, and famine in the third world. Anyone not calling for an immediate end to the lockdown is an enemy of humanity, or a perhaps a useful idiot.

    Even if every thing were to open up tomorrow, and the media and government suddenly decided to responsibly move swiftly to reassure the populace, the hysteria campaign already done tremendous damage, and it would still take months for people to resume their normal lives.

    Replies: @Alden, @Mr. Anon, @XYZ (no Mr.), @anon

    , @Alden
    @Lugash

    As of today, 49,900 deaths in a country of 330 million. That’s less than 1/4 of one percent.

    And who knows if they are all Chinese flu deaths or just classified as such to scam more taxpayers money. ?

    Replies: @Federalist, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Muggles
    @Lugash

    If people like Lugash here, and other commentators, are tired of reading about this virus, why are they here bitching?

    Steve works hard for his material and does a good job. If you want to read about other things, Unz is full of many other topics.

    Or do you go to MacDonald's and order a meal just so you can complain about the bad choice of food there?

    Replies: @anon

  15. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    30-50% capacity + obligatory swab (to ease the contacts tracing if a case pops up) + masks + gloves + ozonation of toilets should be a reasonably safe alternative to not flying at all.

  16. @Anonymous
    It's time to get weaned off this virus thing. The bottom line is it's going to break one way or another now and there is not much changing it. Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead. The rest......will be, it's just do we drag it out or get it over with? Another six weeks or six months isn't going to reform medical practice to use existing cheap drugs better or find a new wonder drug, at this point we know ventilators don't help, and we are at "herd immunity minus fifty percent" so we'll be there sooner or later anyway.

    The longer this charade drags on the more young people we lose, the more businesses we lose, the more lives we set back permanently in the vain hope of saving a few people who, sad to say, are on borrowed time anyway. Urge the specially vulnerable to self isolate for a month or two and spend a small fraction of the funds we've already spent to help them do it, and then let the rest of the herd get it and recover.

    And then use the lessons learned to do what we know we needed and wanted to do anyway, and be ruthless about it, as ruthless as Soros and the Emanuels and every other vicious leftist. It's time to play ram-it-up-their-ass-with-no-vaseline politics. Ridicule them, attack them, make fools of them.

    Why isn't every GOPe politician not calling Biden senile being called out on it? Biden IS senile, and everyone knows it. Why aren't Chamber of Commerce Republicans being attacked from the right for their toadying and cucking? They're as much or more why we don't have domestic manufacturing as the Left is. We should be getting in a couple of whacks to the balls of the AMA and the states for artificially throttling the supply of doctors by limiting medical schools while we have the opportunity.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jonathan Mason

    Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead.

    People keep saying this. Could somebody explain the logic behind this popular belief?

    This could be true if infection rates in nursing homes are higher than in the general population. That might be true. Is it?

    Otherwise, my impression is the infection tended to spread early among energetic, gregarious people, such as my go-to example of skiers. But I doubt if infected skiers are more likely to die of this than the average person if infected.

    • Replies: @Mehen
    @Steve Sailer


    But I doubt if infected skiers are more likely to die of this than the average person if infected.
     
    P R E C I S E L Y
    , @Bleuteaux
    @Steve Sailer

    Do you not follow Powerline? 75%+ deaths in Minnesota are from nursing homes.

    , @Anon87
    @Steve Sailer

    Upstate NY is currently not counting nursing home deaths very well at all. Compared to the official NY state data on deaths, things aren't adding up.

    Re: airline seating, don't discount the odd airflows of recirculated air and then also seat having an air valve to adjust direction and velocity.

  17. Sure seems to ‘take off’ in nursing homes. I know they are elderly and frail but few are obese. Physical contact seems to be a vector here with staff having to assist a resident in and out of bed etc. Seating arrangements on a plane ignores the problem of boarding and deboarding with everyone scrambling to get luggage out of compartments and crowding down the aisle.

    OTOH the cruise ships are not ‘crowded’ save for elevators and yet they have had some of the worst outbreaks not just of covid but noravirus before that. Then again passengers tend to be elderly although the most recent outbreak involved only crew.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @unit472

    Cruise ships encourage face to face socializing with other passengers.

    Replies: @Da Moitz

    , @Corvinus
    @unit472

    "OTOH the cruise ships are not ‘crowded’"

    Your statement gets sunk when one Google's "Crowded Cruise Ship".

  18. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Or some other clever plan?
     
    LOL. C’mon, Steve, really: Forget busywork bogus schemes with unquantifiable results. Relax. In due time, everyone will be issued the appropriate headgear and we’ll get this country moving again.

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/imperial-tie-pilot-brian-stevens.jpg

    Replies: @Lot, @Hypnotoad666

    Hmmmm

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    @Lot

    Babe Ruth used to keep cabbage in a bucket of ice water in the dugout on hot days. He’d put a leaf of cold cabbage under his cap in the outfield.

    Never eat coleslaw at the Babe’s house.

  19. “How Risky Are “Unidirectional Seating” Venues Like Airplanes and Theaters?”

    Airplanes are less risky than nearly any other enclosed space.

    As I mentioned recently this is because jetliner cabins filter air through ‘true HEPA’ filters that removes dust, allergens and microbes (‘microbes’ includes viruses and bacteria) from the air recirculated into the cabin and cockpit. Also air pressure and humidity reflecting an 8000 ft altitude also helps.

    True HEPA filters (>99.999% microbial removal efficiency)

    For years, aircraft designers and airlines have investigated the cabin air flows regarding influenza and have successfully lessened its ability to spread in a commercial airliner.

    The anticipation of winter 2020-21 will likely produce fear of enclosed spaces for those living in the northern latitudes.
    As a result, this autumn we may be seeing ‘true HEPA’ air filters/humidifier combination units for office buildings and upscale homes.

    https://shop.pall.com/us/en/aerospace/commercial-fixed-wing/electronics-cooling-filtration

  20. @unit472
    Sure seems to 'take off' in nursing homes. I know they are elderly and frail but few are obese. Physical contact seems to be a vector here with staff having to assist a resident in and out of bed etc. Seating arrangements on a plane ignores the problem of boarding and deboarding with everyone scrambling to get luggage out of compartments and crowding down the aisle.

    OTOH the cruise ships are not 'crowded' save for elevators and yet they have had some of the worst outbreaks not just of covid but noravirus before that. Then again passengers tend to be elderly although the most recent outbreak involved only crew.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Corvinus

    Cruise ships encourage face to face socializing with other passengers.

    • Replies: @Da Moitz
    @Steve Sailer

    The wife and I have been frequent cruisers in recent years. The closest we get to other passengers is the safety drill on first day. Given recent events, perhaps the safety drill has been the most dangerous part of the cruise. On some ships you are lined up shoulder to shoulder on deck with maybe one foot between you and row of persons in front of you and you stay that way for perhaps 15 minutes. then everyone crushes the stairwells and elevators to get the party started once released. The boat typically seem 50% occupied after that ritual is completed. So in the interest of safety, ELIMINATE THE SAFETY DRILL!

  21. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead.

    People keep saying this. Could somebody explain the logic behind this popular belief?

    This could be true if infection rates in nursing homes are higher than in the general population. That might be true. Is it?

    Otherwise, my impression is the infection tended to spread early among energetic, gregarious people, such as my go-to example of skiers. But I doubt if infected skiers are more likely to die of this than the average person if infected.

    Replies: @Mehen, @Bleuteaux, @Anon87

    But I doubt if infected skiers are more likely to die of this than the average person if infected.

    P R E C I S E L Y

  22. Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve. It’s the flu. Bro.

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Whiskey


    Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve.
     
    Branch Covidian. I like that.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Mehen
    @Whiskey

    Apropos of nothing:

    Hi Whiskey! I remember you...

    *wave*

  23. Unidirectional dating is also a terrible idea, especially for a first date.

    Who came up with “dinner-and-a-movie”, anyway? The restaurateurs’ association in cahoots with Hollywood? You spend an hour staring into each other’s faces with resultant pressure to say the right thing, or at least not the wrong thing. Then you sit silent for two hours looking at something else.

    I prefer the 90° rule. You are at right angles all night, able but not forced to chat. Putt-putt golf is ideal.

    • Agree: hhsiii
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    @Reg Cæsar

    Nice; very well composed photo. Taken by a pro, no doubt. Using Google Image search, I found similar photos in color at Alamy and Getty, stock photography companies. Alamy says the photograph was taken by H. Armstrong Roberts, dated 1 January 1964, but see below.


    Newspapers and magazines were first able to reproduce photographs instead of line art in the mid-1880s with the invention of the half-tone and its use on a printing press. Initially starting with staff photographers, independent free-lance photographers eventually took over. One of the first examples of a stock photo was circa 1920 when American photographer H. Armstrong Roberts ensured that the people photographed in "Group in Front of Tri-Motor Airplane" all signed model releases. This allowed the photograph and others like it to be commercially viable. In an effort to save the cost of hiring photographers for commission-based photo shoots, publishers and advertisers began to consider stock photos as a less risky alternative. One of the first major stock photography libraries [Retrofile] was founded in 1920 by H. Armstrong Roberts
     
    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/1950s-1960s-young-couple-man-woman-play-miniature-golf-summer-date-picture-id563962889

    She looks to be about 5'3", 115 lbs., while I'd say he's around 5'11", 155. Check his skinny belt, and look at those grody, cut-off sneakers gym shoes!

    Her BMI would be about 20.4, his 21.6.

    As they say, less is more.

    Or at least it was.

    However, another shot from HAR's mini golf photo session, titled "1950s 1960s YOUNG COUPLE..." also appears at Getty, but is dated August 13, 1959. In the color photos, the couple looks tan and their attire suggests August rather than January, so I'd go with the earlier date.

    https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/1950s-1960s-young-couple-man-woman-play-miniature-golf-news-photo/563962889


    Elvis Presley's "A Big Hunk O' Love" was #1 on Billboard's Hot 100 for Aug. 17, 1959, followed by the Drifters' "There Goes My Baby" and Carl Dobkins Jrs.' "My Heart Is An Open Book."

    By the way, rear-facing seating has been shown by some researchers to be much safer in the event of a collision, crash, or hard landing.

  24. Steve, with this post you have achieved Peak Boredom. Spare us, please.

  25. @sondjata
    Related. Was at a Wendy's today. The drive through window had plexiglass similar to what is being used in the supermarket. However; since the plexiglass stops above where the food and money is exchanged it is essentially of no use. Why? Because the direct avenue of transmission from driver to attendant and vice versa is unobstructed.

    Clearly a case of safety theatre.

    But that is what's going on. A lot of safety theatre and not a lot of safety logic. Clearly the data shows and has shown that general outdoors activity is very safe. There should be lifting of all prohibitions of use of public outdoor spaces that are not concerts and the like.

    I think for spaces like movie theatres there should be a closure of every other row and people strongly encouraged to not sit next to people who are strangers to them. My larger concern would be AC systems. I look at a movie theatre as a mini cruise. Confined space with artificial air maintenance. How long is too long in such a situation?

    Similar for work places in offices. How long is too long and under what ventilation scenarios?

    Also given the demographics of those who are most affected by Wuhan, might it be prudent to put some restrictions on persons with certain BMIs and health conditions? Should companies be given broad immunity from lawsuits if they hire or otherwise allow to work people in higher risk categories who fall sick presumably from a work derived infection? I think a lot of companies are closed not only due to govt orders but legal issues that could arise from asking employees to do their jobs.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @epebble, @Reg Cæsar

    I think for spaces like movie theatres there should be a closure of every other row and people strongly encouraged to not sit next to people who are strangers to them. My larger concern would be AC systems. I look at a movie theatre as a mini cruise. Confined space with artificial air maintenance. How long is too long in such a situation?

    In my local multi-plex, I’m usually sitting in a mostly empty theatre anyway, as I’m watching a matinee showing of a movie for grown-ups, not a comic-book movie.

    Changing seating in airlines isn’t going to fly, so to speak. Reduce the seating density down to where mysophobes are comfortable with it, and it won’t be economical. Airlines just won’t offer the flights, not at prices that the common people can afford anyway. I’d be happy if they just reduced the density down to 1980s levels – for the extra legroom.

  26. @sondjata
    Related. Was at a Wendy's today. The drive through window had plexiglass similar to what is being used in the supermarket. However; since the plexiglass stops above where the food and money is exchanged it is essentially of no use. Why? Because the direct avenue of transmission from driver to attendant and vice versa is unobstructed.

    Clearly a case of safety theatre.

    But that is what's going on. A lot of safety theatre and not a lot of safety logic. Clearly the data shows and has shown that general outdoors activity is very safe. There should be lifting of all prohibitions of use of public outdoor spaces that are not concerts and the like.

    I think for spaces like movie theatres there should be a closure of every other row and people strongly encouraged to not sit next to people who are strangers to them. My larger concern would be AC systems. I look at a movie theatre as a mini cruise. Confined space with artificial air maintenance. How long is too long in such a situation?

    Similar for work places in offices. How long is too long and under what ventilation scenarios?

    Also given the demographics of those who are most affected by Wuhan, might it be prudent to put some restrictions on persons with certain BMIs and health conditions? Should companies be given broad immunity from lawsuits if they hire or otherwise allow to work people in higher risk categories who fall sick presumably from a work derived infection? I think a lot of companies are closed not only due to govt orders but legal issues that could arise from asking employees to do their jobs.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @epebble, @Reg Cæsar

    Now that you have understood Wendy is all safety theatre, will you go there again? That is the more interesting and important question. We are all aware of traffic accidents but drive around. Where is the risk/reward equilibrium with Covid? I saw plenty of regular folks streaming into hair salons, restaurants and airplanes today (on TV); but dental hygienists are apprehensive about going back to work.

    • Replies: @sondjata
    @epebble

    I'd absolutely go again. I'd prefer to NOT use the drive through. I'd put on my mask or scarf, keep calm and carry on.

    , @animalogic
    @epebble

    I think I saw somewhere that dental hygienists had a 98 % chance of catching the virus (dental workers were 3 out of the top 5 most exposed jobs). Is it true? Beats me....

    Replies: @res

  27. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Especially in an airplane, and even in a theater or concert hall, you are kind of stuck in your seat, and every third or forth time you'll have someone right by you who coughs. Are you prepared to stand up in the middle of a symphony, scoot over seven people's knees, and do the long walk up the aisle in front of 2,000 pissed-off people as the orchestra reaches a crescendo?

    Not that any concert hall is going to get 2,000 suicidal people to attend any time soon.

    Honestly, who cares about movie theaters and airplanes? Good riddance. The movie theater was dying off anyway before the pandemic. And people shouldn't be flying. Let's put that in the past, and not for climate change, but for keeping people in one place as much as possible. If you really need to go somewhere else, spring for a corporate charter. It's the same for food: We should be paying more for produce and for restaurant meals. Cheap food is what is sustaining illegal immigration. Construction also. Things should just cost more. That solves a lot of problems. There will be higher paying jobs for Americans, who will be paying more for stuff.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @AnotherDad

    Separate from your paleo-trad-terroir symbolic reason, there’s an argument for letting the passenger airline industry ca. 2020 go out of business. It’s basically a sop to blue-metro politicians as is (over half an economy ticket goes just to pay off the two airports & their respective unions). And while they may be justified complaining over probably stupid FAA edicts — oddly enough in conjunction with their obscene expenditures on lobbying — it ain’t as if they’re trying to deliver a better service. The no-frills carriers e.g. Spirit are truly testing the definition of “not a frill.”

    Let the old business die and see what replaces it. It’s not self-evident why flinging people up into the sky for the sake of playing on/supporting college teams or affectation of a NYLON dolce vita should be priced at weekly consumption rates.

  28. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lugash

    Its over, Steve. This virus is a joke.
     
    A Vietnam War's worth of deaths, and we're probably not at the midpoint yet. Without any intervention it probably would end up being a Civil War's worth.

    This schism between the Covid-Avoidant and the Bug-Denialists isn't something I expected to see on the alt-right.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Ryan Andrews, @Alden, @Muggles

    Yeah pops, it’s just like the ‘Nam!

  29. @Lugash

    Its over, Steve. This virus is a joke.
     
    A Vietnam War's worth of deaths, and we're probably not at the midpoint yet. Without any intervention it probably would end up being a Civil War's worth.

    This schism between the Covid-Avoidant and the Bug-Denialists isn't something I expected to see on the alt-right.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Ryan Andrews, @Alden, @Muggles

    There are “A Vietnam’s War’s” worth of deaths in the the country every 36 hours, corona virus or no corona virus; where are the [email protected] rational adults? This lockdown is shaping up to be the greatest man-made disaster in the history of the world.

    At the beginning of this sick farce, we were told that we needed to flatten-the-curve to prevent hospital overcrowding, and that the fatality rate may be as high as 3-4%. Even then, a lockdown seemed over-dramatic, but okay, if the army needed a few weeks to build some field hospitals, fine.

    Now, that we know that the fatality rate is somewhere between .1 and 1%, and models were off by an orders of magnitude (as is not unusual, by the way), and we’re still locked down? And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating. In order to avoid (or more likely postpone) our annual death total rising from approx. 3 million (mostly old people) to maybe 3.5 million (again, mostly old people) we are canceling a third of the school year—and considering canceling the beginning of next year, forbidding children from playing with their friends, putting tens of millions out of work, forbidding essentially all forms of social entertainment (no eating-out, no going to movies, no sports events, no concerts, no festivals, etc.), risking a second great depression, and famine in the third world. Anyone not calling for an immediate end to the lockdown is an enemy of humanity, or a perhaps a useful idiot.

    Even if every thing were to open up tomorrow, and the media and government suddenly decided to responsibly move swiftly to reassure the populace, the hysteria campaign already done tremendous damage, and it would still take months for people to resume their normal lives.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Ryan Andrews

    We were at the beach today. Town of about 35,000 people. Nasty gestapo cops there’s really no crime at all in this town. So they spend their days giving out bogus traffic tickets. They roamed the beach asking everyone if they lived in town and what was their address.

    The Main Street of this town is Highway 1. It’s a major north south highway from Mexico to Canada. The Barney Fife’s put up a sign on Highway 1 “ if you live more than 5 miles away turn back”.

    The major effect of 9/11 was the TSA scum of the earth herding us around like dairy cows plodding back to the barn for milking.

    Given the way some mayors governors city councils and police are behaving maybe the whole purpose of the China flu hoax was to set us up for more regimentation and bullying

    Replies: @hhsiii

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Ryan Andrews

    Apart from every other problem with the lockdown that you've identified, there is something more. Something truly malign and sinister in the messaging about it: the ubiquitous "New Normal" propaganda and all the hastag-slogans that go with it. The normalization of social isolation that is being pushed on the public. Encouraging people to accept that almost all social interactions will be virtual. Telling people to be suspicious of everyone, even family members - even to the extent of getting grand-parents to view their own grandchildren as disease-vectors, little walking germ-filled death-bombs. And all the praise-heaping on organizations like the WHO.

    There was a concert special on TV a couple of weeks ago, with Lady Gaga, and other odious pop-tartlettes and assorted celebrities, all mouthing the same slogans. Bill and Melinda Gates were on it too, with Stephen Colbert providing an introductory tounge-bath. Both Michelle Obama and Laura Bush appeared to cement the notion that this is all just the right thing to do and that it crosses partisan lines, when in reality Barack Obama and George W. Bush were both essentially front-men for the same uniparty regime. Vigilant Citizen had a good take-down of this broadcast:

    https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/together-at-home-was-an-infomercial-for-the-global-elite-and-its-agenda/

    Whatever you may think about VC (I myself don't subscribe to his theories of trans-generational conspiracies of secret illuminati blood-lines), some of his analysis is pretty good.

    Replies: @Ryan Andrews, @Old Palo Altan

    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Ryan Andrews

    American deaths in the Vietnam War were approximately 60,000.

    So it takes modern America on average 8 days to reach that. But that overall war was certainly crappy for all.

    But I agree: comparing any of this experience to a war is idiotic, from anybody, including the president. No, we're not in a virus war. Hell, people in current Afghanistan or Iraq, not to mention harsher times of the past, would absolutely consider conditions in America right now to be paradise.

    On that line -- if you just offered Green Cards to anyone who would just show up in America right now, exactly how many would stay away due to mortal terror of the Wuhan virus? As a nation we are supposedly doing a bad job fighting this exponential and deadly demon, compared to the rest of the world.
    But that would not stanche the influx a bit. Why else would people bitch about trivial immigration restrictions? In fact, our current immigrants -- who have homelands elsewhere -- should be abandoning this land in droves to save their lives. Not happening. Why not?

    Replies: @Meretricious, @Ryan Andrews

    , @anon
    @Ryan Andrews

    And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating.


    It's a pity iSteve keeps forcing you to read his articles. Does this mean you'll be cutting back anyway?

  30. @Whiskey
    Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve. It's the flu. Bro.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Mehen

    Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve.

    Branch Covidian. I like that.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @dfordoom



    Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve.
     
    Branch Covidian. I like that.
     
    This time, send in the Royal Covidian Mounted Police. Not Janet Renal.
  31. @Lugash

    Its over, Steve. This virus is a joke.
     
    A Vietnam War's worth of deaths, and we're probably not at the midpoint yet. Without any intervention it probably would end up being a Civil War's worth.

    This schism between the Covid-Avoidant and the Bug-Denialists isn't something I expected to see on the alt-right.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Ryan Andrews, @Alden, @Muggles

    As of today, 49,900 deaths in a country of 330 million. That’s less than 1/4 of one percent.

    And who knows if they are all Chinese flu deaths or just classified as such to scam more taxpayers money. ?

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Federalist
    @Alden


    As of today, 49,900 deaths in a country of 330 million. That’s less than 1/4 of one percent.
     
    Wouldn't 1/4 of one percent of 330,000,000 be 825,000?
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Alden

    Ah, crap, that's what I get for not checking the math. My agree was with the 2n paragraph, still true, even though, yeah, that 0.25% sounded WAY TOO HIGH at first read. Federalist is right, and the other way to correct it is to note that this is 0.015%.

  32. @Ryan Andrews
    @Lugash

    There are "A Vietnam's War's" worth of deaths in the the country every 36 hours, corona virus or no corona virus; where are the [email protected] rational adults? This lockdown is shaping up to be the greatest man-made disaster in the history of the world.

    At the beginning of this sick farce, we were told that we needed to flatten-the-curve to prevent hospital overcrowding, and that the fatality rate may be as high as 3-4%. Even then, a lockdown seemed over-dramatic, but okay, if the army needed a few weeks to build some field hospitals, fine.

    Now, that we know that the fatality rate is somewhere between .1 and 1%, and models were off by an orders of magnitude (as is not unusual, by the way), and we're still locked down? And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating. In order to avoid (or more likely postpone) our annual death total rising from approx. 3 million (mostly old people) to maybe 3.5 million (again, mostly old people) we are canceling a third of the school year—and considering canceling the beginning of next year, forbidding children from playing with their friends, putting tens of millions out of work, forbidding essentially all forms of social entertainment (no eating-out, no going to movies, no sports events, no concerts, no festivals, etc.), risking a second great depression, and famine in the third world. Anyone not calling for an immediate end to the lockdown is an enemy of humanity, or a perhaps a useful idiot.

    Even if every thing were to open up tomorrow, and the media and government suddenly decided to responsibly move swiftly to reassure the populace, the hysteria campaign already done tremendous damage, and it would still take months for people to resume their normal lives.

    Replies: @Alden, @Mr. Anon, @XYZ (no Mr.), @anon

    We were at the beach today. Town of about 35,000 people. Nasty gestapo cops there’s really no crime at all in this town. So they spend their days giving out bogus traffic tickets. They roamed the beach asking everyone if they lived in town and what was their address.

    The Main Street of this town is Highway 1. It’s a major north south highway from Mexico to Canada. The Barney Fife’s put up a sign on Highway 1 “ if you live more than 5 miles away turn back”.

    The major effect of 9/11 was the TSA scum of the earth herding us around like dairy cows plodding back to the barn for milking.

    Given the way some mayors governors city councils and police are behaving maybe the whole purpose of the China flu hoax was to set us up for more regimentation and bullying

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @hhsiii
    @Alden

    I’m glad I bought Citrix stock in March. Question is when to sell. Soon I think. Or maybe Dave Pinsen has an option hedge strategy to suggest.

  33. Or some other clever plan?

    I have a clever plan. In returning to Boston this week from Tampa, I choose to drive rather than fly as I did when I came down in January. Enterprise, $98/Week, full size car, gasoline around a buck-sixty. I see the conditions on the airlines at the moment and fares are over twice what I flew down on even with jet fuel being insanely cheap these days. Hideous. Added bonus, no one will expect a two week quarantine from me for having flown up. I’ll be able to do 1600 miles in two days without directly contacting more than a half-dozen people.

    Clever enough for me.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    @Jim Christian

    You can drive 800 miles a day, by choice? Is the Auto Train still running? You could take a roomette on board. Though it's not particularly cheap.

    Wait a minute, you don't need the car. You could take the regular train. Though, the last time I did it was full of grotesquely fat people who can't fly because they can't stop eating.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    , @AnotherDad
    @Jim Christian

    Huh? But it's never been more pleasant on airliners. AnotherChild#3 and her intended flew down here a few days back. Everyone a row to themselves. Her young man--who is tall and would generally be squished in--said it was the best flight he'd ever been on.

    I've been trying to convince my son to fly down and join us. $11 on Frontier.

    I'm a big believer in road trips--see America! (I road tripped our family all over the US when the kids were kids.) But right now is a great time to fly.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jim Christian

    Jim, I've written it here, and it's on Peak Stupidity, there's never been a better time for a road trip in 1/2 a century! Cheap gas and wide-open roads. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    I've driven a dozen and a half times across the country on various routes from various origins, and to various destinations. I'll tell you one thing: from the east coast to the west, you've got to really want to get there, or it doesn't work. I'm no Ron Unz, but my mad calculus skills told me that at 55 mph (remember that?) it's mathematically impossible to drive across the country. ;-} BTW, Texas, from the Sabine River crossing from Louisiana to El Paso is 850 miles!

    I don't know why Jet Blue is charging you so much right now.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  34. Anonymous[161] • Disclaimer says:

    You know actual stuff is still happening in the world right? And that the virus itself is not the most interesting part of this story? This blog used to be daily reading for me but it’s got so tedious of late.

    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    @Anonymous

    I will never be able to take any pundit or person in my life going into overdrive for this seriously again.

    Leftist bloggers and YouTubers talking about the Wall Street / Fed bailouts are infinitely more relevant and interesting right now.

  35. @Whiskey
    Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve. It's the flu. Bro.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Mehen

    Apropos of nothing:

    Hi Whiskey! I remember you…

    *wave*

  36. @Ryan Andrews
    @Lugash

    There are "A Vietnam's War's" worth of deaths in the the country every 36 hours, corona virus or no corona virus; where are the [email protected] rational adults? This lockdown is shaping up to be the greatest man-made disaster in the history of the world.

    At the beginning of this sick farce, we were told that we needed to flatten-the-curve to prevent hospital overcrowding, and that the fatality rate may be as high as 3-4%. Even then, a lockdown seemed over-dramatic, but okay, if the army needed a few weeks to build some field hospitals, fine.

    Now, that we know that the fatality rate is somewhere between .1 and 1%, and models were off by an orders of magnitude (as is not unusual, by the way), and we're still locked down? And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating. In order to avoid (or more likely postpone) our annual death total rising from approx. 3 million (mostly old people) to maybe 3.5 million (again, mostly old people) we are canceling a third of the school year—and considering canceling the beginning of next year, forbidding children from playing with their friends, putting tens of millions out of work, forbidding essentially all forms of social entertainment (no eating-out, no going to movies, no sports events, no concerts, no festivals, etc.), risking a second great depression, and famine in the third world. Anyone not calling for an immediate end to the lockdown is an enemy of humanity, or a perhaps a useful idiot.

    Even if every thing were to open up tomorrow, and the media and government suddenly decided to responsibly move swiftly to reassure the populace, the hysteria campaign already done tremendous damage, and it would still take months for people to resume their normal lives.

    Replies: @Alden, @Mr. Anon, @XYZ (no Mr.), @anon

    Apart from every other problem with the lockdown that you’ve identified, there is something more. Something truly malign and sinister in the messaging about it: the ubiquitous “New Normal” propaganda and all the hastag-slogans that go with it. The normalization of social isolation that is being pushed on the public. Encouraging people to accept that almost all social interactions will be virtual. Telling people to be suspicious of everyone, even family members – even to the extent of getting grand-parents to view their own grandchildren as disease-vectors, little walking germ-filled death-bombs. And all the praise-heaping on organizations like the WHO.

    There was a concert special on TV a couple of weeks ago, with Lady Gaga, and other odious pop-tartlettes and assorted celebrities, all mouthing the same slogans. Bill and Melinda Gates were on it too, with Stephen Colbert providing an introductory tounge-bath. Both Michelle Obama and Laura Bush appeared to cement the notion that this is all just the right thing to do and that it crosses partisan lines, when in reality Barack Obama and George W. Bush were both essentially front-men for the same uniparty regime. Vigilant Citizen had a good take-down of this broadcast:

    https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/together-at-home-was-an-infomercial-for-the-global-elite-and-its-agenda/

    Whatever you may think about VC (I myself don’t subscribe to his theories of trans-generational conspiracies of secret illuminati blood-lines), some of his analysis is pretty good.

    • Replies: @Ryan Andrews
    @Mr. Anon

    NPR has launched a new "National Conversation" call-in show in which medical professionals answer listener questions. A few weeks back, a woman called in and asked if we should be social distancing every winter because, of course, the flu kills so many people every year. And the doctor did not dismiss the idea out-of-hand. The notion of chain-of-infections leading to someone's death has taken hold in the public imagination.

    , @Old Palo Altan
    @Mr. Anon

    Here in North Britain the First Minister is quite happily calling our current insanity the "New Normal".
    They are not going to give us back our freedom, and there's nobody around here with the fire power to take it back.

    But: on the subject of airplanes and their seating arrangements, I've just realised that I might be the first ever C19 victim (except that it was 2017). I was flying to Amsterdam, and observed with some uneasiness a Chinaman and his wife come down the aisle and, sure enough, sit behind me - he, directly behind me. My uneasiness turned to horror when he sneezed in that particularly disgusting way they have (no hand over mouth, loud, wet, and proud). I actually felt the residue splatter over the back of my head. It took a week or so, but I ended up with something I called a cold, but which had a clinging nastiness about it all its own: it was deeper within me somehow, more invasive.

    Not fun, but not death-dealing either.

  37. @Ryan Andrews
    @Lugash

    There are "A Vietnam's War's" worth of deaths in the the country every 36 hours, corona virus or no corona virus; where are the [email protected] rational adults? This lockdown is shaping up to be the greatest man-made disaster in the history of the world.

    At the beginning of this sick farce, we were told that we needed to flatten-the-curve to prevent hospital overcrowding, and that the fatality rate may be as high as 3-4%. Even then, a lockdown seemed over-dramatic, but okay, if the army needed a few weeks to build some field hospitals, fine.

    Now, that we know that the fatality rate is somewhere between .1 and 1%, and models were off by an orders of magnitude (as is not unusual, by the way), and we're still locked down? And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating. In order to avoid (or more likely postpone) our annual death total rising from approx. 3 million (mostly old people) to maybe 3.5 million (again, mostly old people) we are canceling a third of the school year—and considering canceling the beginning of next year, forbidding children from playing with their friends, putting tens of millions out of work, forbidding essentially all forms of social entertainment (no eating-out, no going to movies, no sports events, no concerts, no festivals, etc.), risking a second great depression, and famine in the third world. Anyone not calling for an immediate end to the lockdown is an enemy of humanity, or a perhaps a useful idiot.

    Even if every thing were to open up tomorrow, and the media and government suddenly decided to responsibly move swiftly to reassure the populace, the hysteria campaign already done tremendous damage, and it would still take months for people to resume their normal lives.

    Replies: @Alden, @Mr. Anon, @XYZ (no Mr.), @anon

    American deaths in the Vietnam War were approximately 60,000.

    So it takes modern America on average 8 days to reach that. But that overall war was certainly crappy for all.

    But I agree: comparing any of this experience to a war is idiotic, from anybody, including the president. No, we’re not in a virus war. Hell, people in current Afghanistan or Iraq, not to mention harsher times of the past, would absolutely consider conditions in America right now to be paradise.

    On that line — if you just offered Green Cards to anyone who would just show up in America right now, exactly how many would stay away due to mortal terror of the Wuhan virus? As a nation we are supposedly doing a bad job fighting this exponential and deadly demon, compared to the rest of the world.
    But that would not stanche the influx a bit. Why else would people bitch about trivial immigration restrictions? In fact, our current immigrants — who have homelands elsewhere — should be abandoning this land in droves to save their lives. Not happening. Why not?

    • Replies: @Meretricious
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    We have more corona deaths than any other country because our borders are more open than any other country's.

    We have over 50 million immigrants and well over 100 million ifyou consider immigrants and children of immigrants. No other country comes close.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    , @Ryan Andrews
    @XYZ (no Mr.)


    American deaths in the Vietnam War were approximately 60,000.

    So it takes modern America on average 8 days to reach that. But that overall war was certainly crappy for all.
     
    Yes, my mistake. I wrongly divided 3,000,000 by 12 and then 7 instead of 52 and then 7.
  38. @sondjata
    Related. Was at a Wendy's today. The drive through window had plexiglass similar to what is being used in the supermarket. However; since the plexiglass stops above where the food and money is exchanged it is essentially of no use. Why? Because the direct avenue of transmission from driver to attendant and vice versa is unobstructed.

    Clearly a case of safety theatre.

    But that is what's going on. A lot of safety theatre and not a lot of safety logic. Clearly the data shows and has shown that general outdoors activity is very safe. There should be lifting of all prohibitions of use of public outdoor spaces that are not concerts and the like.

    I think for spaces like movie theatres there should be a closure of every other row and people strongly encouraged to not sit next to people who are strangers to them. My larger concern would be AC systems. I look at a movie theatre as a mini cruise. Confined space with artificial air maintenance. How long is too long in such a situation?

    Similar for work places in offices. How long is too long and under what ventilation scenarios?

    Also given the demographics of those who are most affected by Wuhan, might it be prudent to put some restrictions on persons with certain BMIs and health conditions? Should companies be given broad immunity from lawsuits if they hire or otherwise allow to work people in higher risk categories who fall sick presumably from a work derived infection? I think a lot of companies are closed not only due to govt orders but legal issues that could arise from asking employees to do their jobs.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @epebble, @Reg Cæsar

    Related. Was at a Wendy’s today. The drive through window had plexiglass similar to what is being used in the supermarket. However; since the plexiglass stops above where the food and money is exchanged it is essentially of no use. Why? Because the direct avenue of transmission from driver to attendant and vice versa is unobstructed.

    I went to Culver’s. One pays at the window, where the cashier has gloves, then drives up to a space to wait for another worker to bring a closed-bag order to the car on foot.

    This sounds a bit safer. At any rate, even in normal times you don’t want the same hands touching both the money and the food.

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    @Reg Cæsar


    At any rate, even in normal times you don’t want the same hands touching both the money and the food.
     
    At Arbys, the kitchen delivers the bag into a Lexan, then the cashier holds the Lexan out the window for you to take the bag out of. But most of the places in town won't take cash anymore.
  39. @dfordoom
    @Whiskey


    Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve.
     
    Branch Covidian. I like that.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Branch Covidian is not a good look Steve.

    Branch Covidian. I like that.

    This time, send in the Royal Covidian Mounted Police. Not Janet Renal.

  40. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Hakan Rotmwrt's Biogeographic Quarantine achieved!

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Curtis Yarvin’s 1492 solution.

  41. The music itself is a Zen koan. Clear your mind.

  42. @Anon
    Especially in an airplane, and even in a theater or concert hall, you are kind of stuck in your seat, and every third or forth time you'll have someone right by you who coughs. Are you prepared to stand up in the middle of a symphony, scoot over seven people's knees, and do the long walk up the aisle in front of 2,000 pissed-off people as the orchestra reaches a crescendo?

    Not that any concert hall is going to get 2,000 suicidal people to attend any time soon.

    Honestly, who cares about movie theaters and airplanes? Good riddance. The movie theater was dying off anyway before the pandemic. And people shouldn't be flying. Let's put that in the past, and not for climate change, but for keeping people in one place as much as possible. If you really need to go somewhere else, spring for a corporate charter. It's the same for food: We should be paying more for produce and for restaurant meals. Cheap food is what is sustaining illegal immigration. Construction also. Things should just cost more. That solves a lot of problems. There will be higher paying jobs for Americans, who will be paying more for stuff.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @AnotherDad

    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.

    • Thanks: hhsiii
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Dave Pinsen


    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.
     
    Spot on big Dave.

    As George Borjas has pointed out, when economists talk about "the benefits" or "gains" or "efficiencies" from immigration, all they are talking about is lower wages.

    That's the "efficiency" immigration is providing. Suddenly a business can clean a hotel room or do some landscaping or chop up an animal more cheaply ... ergo more "efficiently".

    But with mass immigration we've seeing growth in America's actual efficiency of labor--doing more with a unit of labor--stall and decline. We've slowed down--especially relative to where we should be--in figuring out how to do things with less labor. Who needs improvements to a backhoe when you've got Mexicans? ... then Salvadorans, then Guatemalans? Or to figure out how to further automate home framing? Or how to clean a hotel room? Or how to further automate meat packing ... just bring in Somalis!

    Mass immigration is precisely an attack on precisely that which creates prosperity--using our brains to figure out how to use our labor more efficiently.

    And worse, of course, it attacks the very thing that creates national peace and prosperity--having a high IQ, conscientious, high-trust, cohesive population.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @animalogic

    , @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    In addition to relying on illegals in this industry, there has been a monopolization--four major companies control meat and poultry production.

    And the Trump Administration (surprise) hasn't helped matters.

    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/461798-trump-administration-allows-fewer-usda-inspectors-at-pork-plants

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/14/trump-usda-meatpacking-proposal-098352

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Dave Pinsen

    Have the soylent green factories been affected by the virus?

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @animalogic

  43. @Jim Christian

    Or some other clever plan?
     
    I have a clever plan. In returning to Boston this week from Tampa, I choose to drive rather than fly as I did when I came down in January. Enterprise, $98/Week, full size car, gasoline around a buck-sixty. I see the conditions on the airlines at the moment and fares are over twice what I flew down on even with jet fuel being insanely cheap these days. Hideous. Added bonus, no one will expect a two week quarantine from me for having flown up. I'll be able to do 1600 miles in two days without directly contacting more than a half-dozen people.

    Clever enough for me.

    Replies: @Meretricious, @AnotherDad, @Achmed E. Newman

    You can drive 800 miles a day, by choice? Is the Auto Train still running? You could take a roomette on board. Though it’s not particularly cheap.

    Wait a minute, you don’t need the car. You could take the regular train. Though, the last time I did it was full of grotesquely fat people who can’t fly because they can’t stop eating.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Meretricious


    You can drive 800 miles a day, by choice?
     
    Yep. It's a rental, Ford Fusion Turbo, I can drive it like I stole it AND in executive charcoal grey it looks a lot like a cop car which gets people out of the left lane, quite like my Ford Taurus at home. Fun! I may stop off in Northern Virginia for a round of golf with an old pal, but it's not assured. Interstate driving is pretty simple stuff especially with just trucks on the road. Trains? Never been on one, but with all the stops, wouldn't it take me longer than 20 hours?

    Replies: @prosa123

  44. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Ryan Andrews

    American deaths in the Vietnam War were approximately 60,000.

    So it takes modern America on average 8 days to reach that. But that overall war was certainly crappy for all.

    But I agree: comparing any of this experience to a war is idiotic, from anybody, including the president. No, we're not in a virus war. Hell, people in current Afghanistan or Iraq, not to mention harsher times of the past, would absolutely consider conditions in America right now to be paradise.

    On that line -- if you just offered Green Cards to anyone who would just show up in America right now, exactly how many would stay away due to mortal terror of the Wuhan virus? As a nation we are supposedly doing a bad job fighting this exponential and deadly demon, compared to the rest of the world.
    But that would not stanche the influx a bit. Why else would people bitch about trivial immigration restrictions? In fact, our current immigrants -- who have homelands elsewhere -- should be abandoning this land in droves to save their lives. Not happening. Why not?

    Replies: @Meretricious, @Ryan Andrews

    We have more corona deaths than any other country because our borders are more open than any other country’s.

    We have over 50 million immigrants and well over 100 million ifyou consider immigrants and children of immigrants. No other country comes close.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Meretricious

    I get that. I also get that their behavior clearly indicates they've done a risk analysis and decided Wuhan virus is not nearly so dangerous as to force abandoning the good life they have in America.

    Perhaps Americans should do exactly the same, with the twist this is our own land: exactly how many unemployed is Wuhan virus worth to us. It will break 30 million in the next week or so for sure, if a bunch of public employees get laid off perhaps 40 million. Should we assume 50 million is acceptable? Or is it ghoulish to actually weigh that against lives?

  45. Does it really matter when you are breathing poorly filtered re-circulated air?

    • Replies: @animalogic
    @The Alarmist

    Were manufacturing of basic goods, such as n 95 masks (& gloves, sanitizer) nationally located then much of the lock down would have been unnecessary. None of these products are "sophisticated". Had they been made available in quantity, within weeks of, say February, the virus spread would have been much reduced.
    Such are the invisible, unspeakable wages of neoliberalism.... (Running around stealing from your own States & other countries is NOT an adequate response).

  46. @Lot
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Hmmmm



    https://main-designyoutrust.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/corona-filter-52-5e342d7ce8b55__700.jpg?iv=112

    https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/coronavirus-masks2.jpg

    https://st1.latestly.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Coronavirus-outbreak-prevention-784x441.jpg

    https://st1.latestly.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Coronavirus-outbreak-prevention-784x441.jpg

    Replies: @hhsiii

    Babe Ruth used to keep cabbage in a bucket of ice water in the dugout on hot days. He’d put a leaf of cold cabbage under his cap in the outfield.

    Never eat coleslaw at the Babe’s house.

  47. @Alden
    @Ryan Andrews

    We were at the beach today. Town of about 35,000 people. Nasty gestapo cops there’s really no crime at all in this town. So they spend their days giving out bogus traffic tickets. They roamed the beach asking everyone if they lived in town and what was their address.

    The Main Street of this town is Highway 1. It’s a major north south highway from Mexico to Canada. The Barney Fife’s put up a sign on Highway 1 “ if you live more than 5 miles away turn back”.

    The major effect of 9/11 was the TSA scum of the earth herding us around like dairy cows plodding back to the barn for milking.

    Given the way some mayors governors city councils and police are behaving maybe the whole purpose of the China flu hoax was to set us up for more regimentation and bullying

    Replies: @hhsiii

    I’m glad I bought Citrix stock in March. Question is when to sell. Soon I think. Or maybe Dave Pinsen has an option hedge strategy to suggest.

  48. @Meretricious
    @Jim Christian

    You can drive 800 miles a day, by choice? Is the Auto Train still running? You could take a roomette on board. Though it's not particularly cheap.

    Wait a minute, you don't need the car. You could take the regular train. Though, the last time I did it was full of grotesquely fat people who can't fly because they can't stop eating.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    You can drive 800 miles a day, by choice?

    Yep. It’s a rental, Ford Fusion Turbo, I can drive it like I stole it AND in executive charcoal grey it looks a lot like a cop car which gets people out of the left lane, quite like my Ford Taurus at home. Fun! I may stop off in Northern Virginia for a round of golf with an old pal, but it’s not assured. Interstate driving is pretty simple stuff especially with just trucks on the road. Trains? Never been on one, but with all the stops, wouldn’t it take me longer than 20 hours?

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Jim Christian

    One thing to be careful about is something I've noted on my lengthy drives to work. With cops in most places being fairly thick on the ground due to mandatory overtime and leave cancellations, and with actual crime rates reasonably low, what you've got are a lot of radar traps.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  49. Of interest is this CDC article about a particularly hard hit call center in Korea. One thing missing that I’d love to see on this diagram is a compass point.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274-f2

    Assuming North is on top & knowing that Seoul is close to 38 N, it was definitely the shady side that got hammered. Signal or noise? And face-to-face certainly appears to be more dangerous.

  50. @Anon
    Especially in an airplane, and even in a theater or concert hall, you are kind of stuck in your seat, and every third or forth time you'll have someone right by you who coughs. Are you prepared to stand up in the middle of a symphony, scoot over seven people's knees, and do the long walk up the aisle in front of 2,000 pissed-off people as the orchestra reaches a crescendo?

    Not that any concert hall is going to get 2,000 suicidal people to attend any time soon.

    Honestly, who cares about movie theaters and airplanes? Good riddance. The movie theater was dying off anyway before the pandemic. And people shouldn't be flying. Let's put that in the past, and not for climate change, but for keeping people in one place as much as possible. If you really need to go somewhere else, spring for a corporate charter. It's the same for food: We should be paying more for produce and for restaurant meals. Cheap food is what is sustaining illegal immigration. Construction also. Things should just cost more. That solves a lot of problems. There will be higher paying jobs for Americans, who will be paying more for stuff.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous, @Dave Pinsen, @AnotherDad

    Cheap food and airline flights and housing are nice things that come with more knowledge (how to do things more efficiently) and the capital accumulation done by our ancestors and ourselves. (Most–normal–people don’t want to get up before sunrise to milk the cows and scratch the earth all day for a living.)

    In contrast allowing immigration is deeply unnatural and a political choice that is being driven by greedy cheap labor swilling goons, ethnic resentments and the the parasite party’s lust for power.

    Mass immigration doesn’t provide cheap anything for the average American. It simply steals from the average American–giving his birthright, his posterities birthright to foreigners and more powerful, disloyal “Americans” who hate him.

  51. @Dave Pinsen
    @Anon

    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.

    https://twitter.com/neilmunrodc/status/1253122748450308097?s=21

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.

    Spot on big Dave.

    As George Borjas has pointed out, when economists talk about “the benefits” or “gains” or “efficiencies” from immigration, all they are talking about is lower wages.

    That’s the “efficiency” immigration is providing. Suddenly a business can clean a hotel room or do some landscaping or chop up an animal more cheaply … ergo more “efficiently”.

    But with mass immigration we’ve seeing growth in America’s actual efficiency of labor–doing more with a unit of labor–stall and decline. We’ve slowed down–especially relative to where we should be–in figuring out how to do things with less labor. Who needs improvements to a backhoe when you’ve got Mexicans? … then Salvadorans, then Guatemalans? Or to figure out how to further automate home framing? Or how to clean a hotel room? Or how to further automate meat packing … just bring in Somalis!

    Mass immigration is precisely an attack on precisely that which creates prosperity–using our brains to figure out how to use our labor more efficiently.

    And worse, of course, it attacks the very thing that creates national peace and prosperity–having a high IQ, conscientious, high-trust, cohesive population.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @AnotherDad


    As George Borjas has pointed out, when economists talk about “the benefits” or “gains” or “efficiencies” from immigration, all they are talking about is lower wages.

    That’s the “efficiency” immigration is providing. Suddenly a business can clean a hotel room or do some landscaping or chop up an animal more cheaply … ergo more “efficiently”.
     
    The minimum wage has a purpose in a society that lets undesirastizos in-it makes them unemployable. If there is a minimum wage anyway and strict worker safety rules make Teamster approved working conditions the only ones acceptable, the undesirastizos with their willingness to be overworked and underhoused will be at a competitive disadvantage. Their lack of English skills, odor, and general demeanor will not be offset by their willingness to do really hard work.

    People who grew up doing hard physical work have a competitive advantage in physical work capacity for the rest of their lives. Their kids growing up in America won't, they will be fat, dumb, and unsightly, but they won't have the capacity to do the stuff their fathers did. They will collect welfare and have children of their own. And they will vote-not as eagerly as some groups, but enough to make them a political constituency.

    If they worked as hard in Mexico or Guatemala or wherever as hard as they do here and the rule of law were respected there those would be nice places. Let's make them do that instead.
    , @animalogic
    @AnotherDad

    "Mass immigration is precisely an attack on precisely that which creates prosperity–using our brains to figure out how to use our labor more efficiently."
    Your point is completely backed up by history. Prior to the 20th C the US often had under supplies of labour. This had 2 hugely positive effects : it put upward pressure on wages & (thus) stimulated the development of labour saving machinery
    ( Agricultural machinery comes to mind as a good example). Real greater productivity was the result. (From 1932 to 197? that productivity was increasingly better "shared" creating even greater prosperity)

  52. @Jim Christian

    Or some other clever plan?
     
    I have a clever plan. In returning to Boston this week from Tampa, I choose to drive rather than fly as I did when I came down in January. Enterprise, $98/Week, full size car, gasoline around a buck-sixty. I see the conditions on the airlines at the moment and fares are over twice what I flew down on even with jet fuel being insanely cheap these days. Hideous. Added bonus, no one will expect a two week quarantine from me for having flown up. I'll be able to do 1600 miles in two days without directly contacting more than a half-dozen people.

    Clever enough for me.

    Replies: @Meretricious, @AnotherDad, @Achmed E. Newman

    Huh? But it’s never been more pleasant on airliners. AnotherChild#3 and her intended flew down here a few days back. Everyone a row to themselves. Her young man–who is tall and would generally be squished in–said it was the best flight he’d ever been on.

    I’ve been trying to convince my son to fly down and join us. $11 on Frontier.

    I’m a big believer in road trips–see America! (I road tripped our family all over the US when the kids were kids.) But right now is a great time to fly.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @AnotherDad


    But right now is a great time to fly.
     
    Appreciate the sentiments, but we're starting to see some real nightmares. On my flight (booked it sunday, got home last night), there were maybe forty or 50 folks total going to Boston outta Tampa International. In their safe-spacing, I went from seat 8A to 4F, got more room, heh.. It was an ok flight except for no booze. But flights that book fully out of big cities are said to be pretty bad risks and not so cheery. People with masks are starting to hassle people without masks on these planes, too, but that's mostly broads whining so far. No one said anything to me, I had no mask but everyone else did, therefore, I don't NEED no stinkin' mask. Scroom all. In the pantheon of things that will kill me, this one is pretty slim--so far. I dunno how people live like that, terrorized 24-7 over news accounts from the Connected. Puppet heads.
  53. On a Metro-North commuter train half the car’s seats face north and half face south — so there are two rows in the middle where the person behind you is facing the opposite way, rather than breathing, coughing and sneezing down the back of your neck. Those are the seats I’ve always headed for.

    It’s a rare nice day around here so I’m going outside now to inject some UV

  54. Good idea. Class 10,000 clean room design with minimum 9 to 16 cfm per sq ft floor area of laminar downflow of filtered air from the ceiling. Uniformly perforated floors for return air. People at least 2 ft apart. It would make movie theaters pretty expensive to build and operate at a profit, though…
    https://www.cleanroomsbyunited.com/modular-cleanrooms/class-10000-cleanrooms/

  55. @Joe Stalin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO2QMyyjHkc

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    Italian aircraft seat and cabin interior supplier AvioInteriors has released a concept for a new seating solution designed to theoretically allow airlines to fill their middle seats amid Covid-19 concerns. Calling it a “kit-level solution” operators can install on existing seats to make close proximity safer, the company’s Glassafe and Janus products feature transparencies to create an isolated volume around the passenger to avoid or minimize the spread of germs between occupants.

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2020-04-23/aviointeriors-seating-innovation-addresses-covid-concerns

  56. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Ryan Andrews

    American deaths in the Vietnam War were approximately 60,000.

    So it takes modern America on average 8 days to reach that. But that overall war was certainly crappy for all.

    But I agree: comparing any of this experience to a war is idiotic, from anybody, including the president. No, we're not in a virus war. Hell, people in current Afghanistan or Iraq, not to mention harsher times of the past, would absolutely consider conditions in America right now to be paradise.

    On that line -- if you just offered Green Cards to anyone who would just show up in America right now, exactly how many would stay away due to mortal terror of the Wuhan virus? As a nation we are supposedly doing a bad job fighting this exponential and deadly demon, compared to the rest of the world.
    But that would not stanche the influx a bit. Why else would people bitch about trivial immigration restrictions? In fact, our current immigrants -- who have homelands elsewhere -- should be abandoning this land in droves to save their lives. Not happening. Why not?

    Replies: @Meretricious, @Ryan Andrews

    American deaths in the Vietnam War were approximately 60,000.

    So it takes modern America on average 8 days to reach that. But that overall war was certainly crappy for all.

    Yes, my mistake. I wrongly divided 3,000,000 by 12 and then 7 instead of 52 and then 7.

  57. Certain travel scenarios are prone to get you sick in my opinion. My wife and I traveling

    3-4 months a year visited over 100 countries in 25 years. Two scenarios resulted in

    near certainy of respiratory infection.

    LENGTHY MULTIPLE-STOP FLIGHTS ACROSS SEVERAL COUNTRIES AT
    END OF LONG TRIP.
    1) Up to 48 hours including stop overs
    2) exposures to germs of the world (multiple countries, large urban airports)
    3) exhausted from frentic pace of tours, excursions, etc.

    LENGTHY CRUISES ON LARGE CROWDED SHIPS WITH MULTI-NATIONAL
    PASSENGER LIST
    1) frequent crowded events in confined spaces with cold weather forcing people
    indoors
    2) exposed to germs of the world
    3) long excursions in crowded buses

    Flights from LAX to NYC or Miami. No problem.

    Hey Steve, why didn’t you use my comment comparing differences in nursing homes
    causing differences in infection rates?

  58. @Mr. Anon
    @Ryan Andrews

    Apart from every other problem with the lockdown that you've identified, there is something more. Something truly malign and sinister in the messaging about it: the ubiquitous "New Normal" propaganda and all the hastag-slogans that go with it. The normalization of social isolation that is being pushed on the public. Encouraging people to accept that almost all social interactions will be virtual. Telling people to be suspicious of everyone, even family members - even to the extent of getting grand-parents to view their own grandchildren as disease-vectors, little walking germ-filled death-bombs. And all the praise-heaping on organizations like the WHO.

    There was a concert special on TV a couple of weeks ago, with Lady Gaga, and other odious pop-tartlettes and assorted celebrities, all mouthing the same slogans. Bill and Melinda Gates were on it too, with Stephen Colbert providing an introductory tounge-bath. Both Michelle Obama and Laura Bush appeared to cement the notion that this is all just the right thing to do and that it crosses partisan lines, when in reality Barack Obama and George W. Bush were both essentially front-men for the same uniparty regime. Vigilant Citizen had a good take-down of this broadcast:

    https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/together-at-home-was-an-infomercial-for-the-global-elite-and-its-agenda/

    Whatever you may think about VC (I myself don't subscribe to his theories of trans-generational conspiracies of secret illuminati blood-lines), some of his analysis is pretty good.

    Replies: @Ryan Andrews, @Old Palo Altan

    NPR has launched a new “National Conversation” call-in show in which medical professionals answer listener questions. A few weeks back, a woman called in and asked if we should be social distancing every winter because, of course, the flu kills so many people every year. And the doctor did not dismiss the idea out-of-hand. The notion of chain-of-infections leading to someone’s death has taken hold in the public imagination.

  59. @Jim Christian
    @Meretricious


    You can drive 800 miles a day, by choice?
     
    Yep. It's a rental, Ford Fusion Turbo, I can drive it like I stole it AND in executive charcoal grey it looks a lot like a cop car which gets people out of the left lane, quite like my Ford Taurus at home. Fun! I may stop off in Northern Virginia for a round of golf with an old pal, but it's not assured. Interstate driving is pretty simple stuff especially with just trucks on the road. Trains? Never been on one, but with all the stops, wouldn't it take me longer than 20 hours?

    Replies: @prosa123

    One thing to be careful about is something I’ve noted on my lengthy drives to work. With cops in most places being fairly thick on the ground due to mandatory overtime and leave cancellations, and with actual crime rates reasonably low, what you’ve got are a lot of radar traps.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @prosa123


    with actual crime rates reasonably low, what you’ve got are a lot of radar traps.
     
    I wound up flying anyway, turns out. Agreed about that in busy counties like say, Fairfax, Virginia and the like. And, I was kidding about the drive it like I stole it part. That's for motorcycles on twisty roads. Not that I baby my cars. Thing about these days is, it isn't economical to put cops in remote stretches where there are few cars on the interstates. 75 north outta Tampa to Knoxville is pretty remote except for Atlanta. Then I81 up to Pa. and I 84 connector is pretty remote too. In Vermont, there are cops aplenty up in ski country in the winter, they're gone in the summer. Affords lots of super-speedway motorcycling at that time. Oh well, don't wanna give up all my good spots, heh..

    C- ya!
  60. Activity at Area 51 is picking up. People who monitor the “Janet” flights (the 737’s that bring workers to the base from Las Vegas) say there are two or three round trips a day, up from just one. That would seem to indicate that more than just essential security and maintenance workers are on base, so work on secret projects, probably the B-21, may be ramping up.

    • Replies: @animalogic
    @prosa123

    Or a lot of bigwigs (a la 1665) are fucking off to more hygienic climes... such as planet X, to escape the plague....

  61. Airlines, which have been running lots of practically empty flights lately at huge cost to themselves

    At least there will be no fuel surcharges with aviation fuel going for next to nothing, and with the planes running almost empty, they will need less fuel.

    Hopefully those airlines that survive will value their passengers and treat them better in the future.

    • Replies: @Inverness
    @Jonathan Mason

    Has FedEx finally dropped its fuel surcharges? Something tells me they haven't.

  62. Pfft, permanently doing stuff like this? What do you think we are, gay?

  63. @TorontoTraveller
    Would you please lisren again to Johan
    Giesecke who I think you've already quoted extensively:

    https://youtu.be/bfN2JWifLCY

    And then get yourself a beer, put away your slide rule, and start writing interesting stuff again. Please? For both of our sakes.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    Mr. Sailer has been writing interesting and relevant things on this particular subject. Now, Dr. Giesecke certainly has the credentials and make several key points, but is it not possible that he could be mistaken in his overall assessment?

    Perhaps it would be helpful him and other medical experts from around the world to compare their philosophies on how to deal with this pandemic.

  64. @Anonymous
    It's time to get weaned off this virus thing. The bottom line is it's going to break one way or another now and there is not much changing it. Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead. The rest......will be, it's just do we drag it out or get it over with? Another six weeks or six months isn't going to reform medical practice to use existing cheap drugs better or find a new wonder drug, at this point we know ventilators don't help, and we are at "herd immunity minus fifty percent" so we'll be there sooner or later anyway.

    The longer this charade drags on the more young people we lose, the more businesses we lose, the more lives we set back permanently in the vain hope of saving a few people who, sad to say, are on borrowed time anyway. Urge the specially vulnerable to self isolate for a month or two and spend a small fraction of the funds we've already spent to help them do it, and then let the rest of the herd get it and recover.

    And then use the lessons learned to do what we know we needed and wanted to do anyway, and be ruthless about it, as ruthless as Soros and the Emanuels and every other vicious leftist. It's time to play ram-it-up-their-ass-with-no-vaseline politics. Ridicule them, attack them, make fools of them.

    Why isn't every GOPe politician not calling Biden senile being called out on it? Biden IS senile, and everyone knows it. Why aren't Chamber of Commerce Republicans being attacked from the right for their toadying and cucking? They're as much or more why we don't have domestic manufacturing as the Left is. We should be getting in a couple of whacks to the balls of the AMA and the states for artificially throttling the supply of doctors by limiting medical schools while we have the opportunity.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jonathan Mason

    Why isn’t every GOP politician not calling Biden senile being called out on it? Biden IS senile, and everyone knows it.

    Of course Biden is senile, but he is just a stalking horse for the real candidate who we know is going to be a woman, who will take over after the inauguration. Biden wants Michelle, but apparently she does not want to run. My money is on Stacey Abrams, but it could be someone else.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/stacey-abramss-remarkable-campaign-for-vice-president/ar-BB139Zbd

    Once she is named, the real election campaign will start. Another subsidiary question is whether Pence remains the substitute for Trump.

    • Replies: @J1234
    @Jonathan Mason


    Biden wants Michelle, but apparently she does not want to run.
     
    Wow, she's slightly smarter than I thought. Joe probably thinks she's clean cut and well spoken.

    I kind of hope Elizabeth Warren is chosen as a running mate. Then the media will get a second chance to ask her why a Harvard law professor refers to the death of Michael Brown as a "murder" when the US DOJ (Eric Holder's DOJ, in fact) said there was insufficient evidence or reason to believe that it was. Will the crime of murder then become a matter of opinion rather than fact under a Warren administration? (a curious news media might ask.)
  65. @Meretricious
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    We have more corona deaths than any other country because our borders are more open than any other country's.

    We have over 50 million immigrants and well over 100 million ifyou consider immigrants and children of immigrants. No other country comes close.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I get that. I also get that their behavior clearly indicates they’ve done a risk analysis and decided Wuhan virus is not nearly so dangerous as to force abandoning the good life they have in America.

    Perhaps Americans should do exactly the same, with the twist this is our own land: exactly how many unemployed is Wuhan virus worth to us. It will break 30 million in the next week or so for sure, if a bunch of public employees get laid off perhaps 40 million. Should we assume 50 million is acceptable? Or is it ghoulish to actually weigh that against lives?

  66. @Dave Pinsen
    @Anon

    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.

    https://twitter.com/neilmunrodc/status/1253122748450308097?s=21

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    In addition to relying on illegals in this industry, there has been a monopolization–four major companies control meat and poultry production.

    And the Trump Administration (surprise) hasn’t helped matters.

    https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/461798-trump-administration-allows-fewer-usda-inspectors-at-pork-plants

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/14/trump-usda-meatpacking-proposal-098352

  67. @unit472
    Sure seems to 'take off' in nursing homes. I know they are elderly and frail but few are obese. Physical contact seems to be a vector here with staff having to assist a resident in and out of bed etc. Seating arrangements on a plane ignores the problem of boarding and deboarding with everyone scrambling to get luggage out of compartments and crowding down the aisle.

    OTOH the cruise ships are not 'crowded' save for elevators and yet they have had some of the worst outbreaks not just of covid but noravirus before that. Then again passengers tend to be elderly although the most recent outbreak involved only crew.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Corvinus

    “OTOH the cruise ships are not ‘crowded’”

    Your statement gets sunk when one Google’s “Crowded Cruise Ship”.

  68. @Lot
    I had a return flight at the outset of CV mania. Only about 15% of that’s day’s flights were cancelled, all on routes with multiple daily flights.

    My plane was at about 5% capacity. We “self organized” into 1 person per 2-3 rows with the back half nearly empty.

    Probably the airline employees had to be paid anyway and refunds would be required on cancelled flights, so that’s why we had a months of wasteful near-empty flights.

    Replies: @North Carolina Resident

    One other reason for near-empty flights… Airlines must fly routes or risk losing landing/takeoff time slots. Those rules have been suspended, as they were post 9/11 and a few other times.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @North Carolina Resident

    NC Resident, that slot business is only for the foreign airports + very special ones like New York's LaGuardia (maybe JFK too) and Reagan Field. They aren't actual times, but just, if you don't fly the flight very regularly, I think you lose them.

  69. @Anonymous
    This site may as well be a UFO conspiracy theory blog at this point.

    Disappointing. Steve could be talking about the real story. Insane people losing their minds, insane public policy, etc.

    Its over, Steve. This virus is a joke.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “It’s over, Steve. This virus is a joke.”

    Unfortunately, the Fu Manchu Virus (FMV) is not a joke. But judging by this post, it’s clear our beloved Steve has lost the plot. He needs to get out of his closet, away from the em radiation, and spend more time with Tiny Duck.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @SunBakedSuburb


    and spend more time with Tiny Duck.
     
    Not if Tiny Duck, who hasn't commented here since March 26th, sleeps with the fishes.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jsYEMgZb_-4/hqdefault.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  70. @TorontoTraveller
    Would you please lisren again to Johan
    Giesecke who I think you've already quoted extensively:

    https://youtu.be/bfN2JWifLCY

    And then get yourself a beer, put away your slide rule, and start writing interesting stuff again. Please? For both of our sakes.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    Steve should continue his exploration of the FMV, but he does need to reengage his other interests. Perhaps more for his sake than ours.

  71. @Dave Pinsen
    @Anon

    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.

    https://twitter.com/neilmunrodc/status/1253122748450308097?s=21

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    Have the soylent green factories been affected by the virus?

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @SunBakedSuburb

    The soylent factories are doing just fine and they are expanding into Canada just this month.


    Starting today, Soylent’s meal-in-a-bottle drinks and powder will again be available for delivery to Canadian consumers, according to a press release sent to The Spoon.

    This comes after the more than two-year hiatus in Soylent sales in the Great White North. In the fall of 2017, Soylent had to halt Canadian distribution of its products after, as it wrote in the press release, there were “challenges with certain Canadian government filings.” Chiefly, it did not meet Canadian food inspectors’ standards of what constitutes a meal replacement.

    https://thespoon.tech/soylent-relaunches-in-canada-as-meal-in-a-bottle-sales-fuel-up/

     

    , @animalogic
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Soylent Green equities are rising 10-15 % per week. Buy!

  72. @Jonathan Mason
    @Anonymous


    Why isn’t every GOP politician not calling Biden senile being called out on it? Biden IS senile, and everyone knows it.
     
    Of course Biden is senile, but he is just a stalking horse for the real candidate who we know is going to be a woman, who will take over after the inauguration. Biden wants Michelle, but apparently she does not want to run. My money is on Stacey Abrams, but it could be someone else.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/stacey-abramss-remarkable-campaign-for-vice-president/ar-BB139Zbd

    Once she is named, the real election campaign will start. Another subsidiary question is whether Pence remains the substitute for Trump.

    Replies: @J1234

    Biden wants Michelle, but apparently she does not want to run.

    Wow, she’s slightly smarter than I thought. Joe probably thinks she’s clean cut and well spoken.

    I kind of hope Elizabeth Warren is chosen as a running mate. Then the media will get a second chance to ask her why a Harvard law professor refers to the death of Michael Brown as a “murder” when the US DOJ (Eric Holder’s DOJ, in fact) said there was insufficient evidence or reason to believe that it was. Will the crime of murder then become a matter of opinion rather than fact under a Warren administration? (a curious news media might ask.)

  73. @JimB
    It’s always bad sitting next to someone with a juicy cold. But I though the primary risk of getting sick on an airplane came from breathing recirculated air. Maybe all that airlines need to do to reduce viral transmission is retrofit better filters in the cabins.

    Replies: @Muggles

    It is my understanding that modern commercial aircraft already use UV lights and effective micro filters with interior air. And change it out fairly often. Tests show this is very effective.

    It is likely not very infectious inside unless your seatmate is sick. However, in order to board an aircraft you need at least an hour for check-in, luggage hand off (if) and TSA screening slowly shuffling in a long line. Then you normally wait around in a crowded terminal area with plastic seats surrounded cheek-jowl by fellow travelers.

    Then you jump up and line up again in a mob of people standing around and slowly shuffle down a long narrow hallway (“jetway”) to get inside the aircraft.

    Leaving said aircraft, you stand up inside and slowly shuffle down said jetway back into the often crowded terminal again. Then if with luggage, stand around the carousel for that to arrive in another pushing, shoving mob.

    Then wait for transportation in another crowd, board a crowded shuttle, bus or train to get home.

    Being inside the aircraft is the cleanest safest part of the trip.

    • Replies: @JimB
    @Muggles

    Thank you! I purposely fly red-eyes and 6am flights to avoid crowds, but you're right that boarding and deplaning are the occasions when air travelers are most likely to get infected.

  74. @Lugash

    Its over, Steve. This virus is a joke.
     
    A Vietnam War's worth of deaths, and we're probably not at the midpoint yet. Without any intervention it probably would end up being a Civil War's worth.

    This schism between the Covid-Avoidant and the Bug-Denialists isn't something I expected to see on the alt-right.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Ryan Andrews, @Alden, @Muggles

    If people like Lugash here, and other commentators, are tired of reading about this virus, why are they here bitching?

    Steve works hard for his material and does a good job. If you want to read about other things, Unz is full of many other topics.

    Or do you go to MacDonald’s and order a meal just so you can complain about the bad choice of food there?

    • Replies: @anon
    @Muggles

    Or do you go to MacDonald’s and order a meal just so you can complain about the bad choice of food there

    Probably, and also complain about how small the portions are.

  75. B. Skipping every other row:

    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX
    PPP PPP
    XXX XXX

    You try B and i’m lying down across the XXX with my mask and taking a nap.

    Seriously Steve, your critics here are right. Overthinking this. There’s no problem with air travel–the experience, not the issue of letting foreigners stream in–that isn’t taking care of by having people mask up.

    I’ve been using a mask on flights for about three years now. Not 100% of the time but anytime i have neighbors who are coughing or seem sick or just seem “off”. Being crammed in the tube for several hours is annoying–but beats the hell out crossing the prairie in a covered wagon or crossin the ocean in a sailing ship. Tacking on a mask is a non-issue.

  76. How about taking everyone’s temperature before they go into a movie theater or board an aircraft?

    • Replies: @res
    @Henry Canaday


    How about taking everyone’s temperature before they go into a movie theater or board an aircraft?
     
    That is is a good one (for use during an active pandemic). But I'd move the air travel temperature check points back to the metal detectors and employee entrances. Perhaps even the main entrances since waiting in line for tickets, baggage, or gate access is probably an issue.
  77. Half in the Bag: Quarantine Catch-up (part 2 of 2)

    Still stuck inside, Mike and Jay talk about Gretel & Hansel, Vivarium, and the most anticipated movie of all time, THE BOY 2!!!! Is there ANOTHER boy living in the walls??? Stay tuned to find out!

  78. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Or some other clever plan?
     
    LOL. C’mon, Steve, really: Forget busywork bogus schemes with unquantifiable results. Relax. In due time, everyone will be issued the appropriate headgear and we’ll get this country moving again.

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/imperial-tie-pilot-brian-stevens.jpg

    Replies: @Lot, @Hypnotoad666

    They could just let everyone use the emergency oxygen mask for the whole flight.

  79. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Anonymous

    "It's over, Steve. This virus is a joke."

    Unfortunately, the Fu Manchu Virus (FMV) is not a joke. But judging by this post, it's clear our beloved Steve has lost the plot. He needs to get out of his closet, away from the em radiation, and spend more time with Tiny Duck.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    and spend more time with Tiny Duck.

    Not if Tiny Duck, who hasn’t commented here since March 26th, sleeps with the fishes.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Tiny Duck Lives:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/what-we-now-need-most-free-speech/#comment-3866280

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AqtY_XsiiGE/hqdefault.jpg

  80. @Muggles
    @JimB

    It is my understanding that modern commercial aircraft already use UV lights and effective micro filters with interior air. And change it out fairly often. Tests show this is very effective.

    It is likely not very infectious inside unless your seatmate is sick. However, in order to board an aircraft you need at least an hour for check-in, luggage hand off (if) and TSA screening slowly shuffling in a long line. Then you normally wait around in a crowded terminal area with plastic seats surrounded cheek-jowl by fellow travelers.

    Then you jump up and line up again in a mob of people standing around and slowly shuffle down a long narrow hallway ("jetway") to get inside the aircraft.

    Leaving said aircraft, you stand up inside and slowly shuffle down said jetway back into the often crowded terminal again. Then if with luggage, stand around the carousel for that to arrive in another pushing, shoving mob.

    Then wait for transportation in another crowd, board a crowded shuttle, bus or train to get home.

    Being inside the aircraft is the cleanest safest part of the trip.

    Replies: @JimB

    Thank you! I purposely fly red-eyes and 6am flights to avoid crowds, but you’re right that boarding and deplaning are the occasions when air travelers are most likely to get infected.

  81. @Henry Canaday
    How about taking everyone's temperature before they go into a movie theater or board an aircraft?

    Replies: @res

    How about taking everyone’s temperature before they go into a movie theater or board an aircraft?

    That is is a good one (for use during an active pandemic). But I’d move the air travel temperature check points back to the metal detectors and employee entrances. Perhaps even the main entrances since waiting in line for tickets, baggage, or gate access is probably an issue.

  82. @Mr. Anon
    @Ryan Andrews

    Apart from every other problem with the lockdown that you've identified, there is something more. Something truly malign and sinister in the messaging about it: the ubiquitous "New Normal" propaganda and all the hastag-slogans that go with it. The normalization of social isolation that is being pushed on the public. Encouraging people to accept that almost all social interactions will be virtual. Telling people to be suspicious of everyone, even family members - even to the extent of getting grand-parents to view their own grandchildren as disease-vectors, little walking germ-filled death-bombs. And all the praise-heaping on organizations like the WHO.

    There was a concert special on TV a couple of weeks ago, with Lady Gaga, and other odious pop-tartlettes and assorted celebrities, all mouthing the same slogans. Bill and Melinda Gates were on it too, with Stephen Colbert providing an introductory tounge-bath. Both Michelle Obama and Laura Bush appeared to cement the notion that this is all just the right thing to do and that it crosses partisan lines, when in reality Barack Obama and George W. Bush were both essentially front-men for the same uniparty regime. Vigilant Citizen had a good take-down of this broadcast:

    https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv/together-at-home-was-an-infomercial-for-the-global-elite-and-its-agenda/

    Whatever you may think about VC (I myself don't subscribe to his theories of trans-generational conspiracies of secret illuminati blood-lines), some of his analysis is pretty good.

    Replies: @Ryan Andrews, @Old Palo Altan

    Here in North Britain the First Minister is quite happily calling our current insanity the “New Normal”.
    They are not going to give us back our freedom, and there’s nobody around here with the fire power to take it back.

    But: on the subject of airplanes and their seating arrangements, I’ve just realised that I might be the first ever C19 victim (except that it was 2017). I was flying to Amsterdam, and observed with some uneasiness a Chinaman and his wife come down the aisle and, sure enough, sit behind me – he, directly behind me. My uneasiness turned to horror when he sneezed in that particularly disgusting way they have (no hand over mouth, loud, wet, and proud). I actually felt the residue splatter over the back of my head. It took a week or so, but I ended up with something I called a cold, but which had a clinging nastiness about it all its own: it was deeper within me somehow, more invasive.

    Not fun, but not death-dealing either.

  83. @Jonathan Mason

    Airlines, which have been running lots of practically empty flights lately at huge cost to themselves
     
    At least there will be no fuel surcharges with aviation fuel going for next to nothing, and with the planes running almost empty, they will need less fuel.

    Hopefully those airlines that survive will value their passengers and treat them better in the future.

    Replies: @Inverness

    Has FedEx finally dropped its fuel surcharges? Something tells me they haven’t.

  84. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead.

    People keep saying this. Could somebody explain the logic behind this popular belief?

    This could be true if infection rates in nursing homes are higher than in the general population. That might be true. Is it?

    Otherwise, my impression is the infection tended to spread early among energetic, gregarious people, such as my go-to example of skiers. But I doubt if infected skiers are more likely to die of this than the average person if infected.

    Replies: @Mehen, @Bleuteaux, @Anon87

    Do you not follow Powerline? 75%+ deaths in Minnesota are from nursing homes.

  85. @Steve Sailer
    @unit472

    Cruise ships encourage face to face socializing with other passengers.

    Replies: @Da Moitz

    The wife and I have been frequent cruisers in recent years. The closest we get to other passengers is the safety drill on first day. Given recent events, perhaps the safety drill has been the most dangerous part of the cruise. On some ships you are lined up shoulder to shoulder on deck with maybe one foot between you and row of persons in front of you and you stay that way for perhaps 15 minutes. then everyone crushes the stairwells and elevators to get the party started once released. The boat typically seem 50% occupied after that ritual is completed. So in the interest of safety, ELIMINATE THE SAFETY DRILL!

  86. @Anonymous
    You know actual stuff is still happening in the world right? And that the virus itself is not the most interesting part of this story? This blog used to be daily reading for me but it's got so tedious of late.

    Replies: @Bleuteaux

    I will never be able to take any pundit or person in my life going into overdrive for this seriously again.

    Leftist bloggers and YouTubers talking about the Wall Street / Fed bailouts are infinitely more relevant and interesting right now.

  87. @epebble
    @sondjata

    Now that you have understood Wendy is all safety theatre, will you go there again? That is the more interesting and important question. We are all aware of traffic accidents but drive around. Where is the risk/reward equilibrium with Covid? I saw plenty of regular folks streaming into hair salons, restaurants and airplanes today (on TV); but dental hygienists are apprehensive about going back to work.

    Replies: @sondjata, @animalogic

    I’d absolutely go again. I’d prefer to NOT use the drive through. I’d put on my mask or scarf, keep calm and carry on.

  88. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Dave Pinsen

    Have the soylent green factories been affected by the virus?

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @animalogic

    The soylent factories are doing just fine and they are expanding into Canada just this month.

    Starting today, Soylent’s meal-in-a-bottle drinks and powder will again be available for delivery to Canadian consumers, according to a press release sent to The Spoon.

    This comes after the more than two-year hiatus in Soylent sales in the Great White North. In the fall of 2017, Soylent had to halt Canadian distribution of its products after, as it wrote in the press release, there were “challenges with certain Canadian government filings.” Chiefly, it did not meet Canadian food inspectors’ standards of what constitutes a meal replacement.

    https://thespoon.tech/soylent-relaunches-in-canada-as-meal-in-a-bottle-sales-fuel-up/

  89. @Ryan Andrews
    @Lugash

    There are "A Vietnam's War's" worth of deaths in the the country every 36 hours, corona virus or no corona virus; where are the [email protected] rational adults? This lockdown is shaping up to be the greatest man-made disaster in the history of the world.

    At the beginning of this sick farce, we were told that we needed to flatten-the-curve to prevent hospital overcrowding, and that the fatality rate may be as high as 3-4%. Even then, a lockdown seemed over-dramatic, but okay, if the army needed a few weeks to build some field hospitals, fine.

    Now, that we know that the fatality rate is somewhere between .1 and 1%, and models were off by an orders of magnitude (as is not unusual, by the way), and we're still locked down? And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating. In order to avoid (or more likely postpone) our annual death total rising from approx. 3 million (mostly old people) to maybe 3.5 million (again, mostly old people) we are canceling a third of the school year—and considering canceling the beginning of next year, forbidding children from playing with their friends, putting tens of millions out of work, forbidding essentially all forms of social entertainment (no eating-out, no going to movies, no sports events, no concerts, no festivals, etc.), risking a second great depression, and famine in the third world. Anyone not calling for an immediate end to the lockdown is an enemy of humanity, or a perhaps a useful idiot.

    Even if every thing were to open up tomorrow, and the media and government suddenly decided to responsibly move swiftly to reassure the populace, the hysteria campaign already done tremendous damage, and it would still take months for people to resume their normal lives.

    Replies: @Alden, @Mr. Anon, @XYZ (no Mr.), @anon

    And Steve still has the nerve to waste time theorizing about risk calculation of attending a movie theater?

    This is absolutely infuriating.

    It’s a pity iSteve keeps forcing you to read his articles. Does this mean you’ll be cutting back anyway?

  90. @Muggles
    @Lugash

    If people like Lugash here, and other commentators, are tired of reading about this virus, why are they here bitching?

    Steve works hard for his material and does a good job. If you want to read about other things, Unz is full of many other topics.

    Or do you go to MacDonald's and order a meal just so you can complain about the bad choice of food there?

    Replies: @anon

    Or do you go to MacDonald’s and order a meal just so you can complain about the bad choice of food there

    Probably, and also complain about how small the portions are.

  91. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    @Dave Pinsen


    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.
     
    Spot on big Dave.

    As George Borjas has pointed out, when economists talk about "the benefits" or "gains" or "efficiencies" from immigration, all they are talking about is lower wages.

    That's the "efficiency" immigration is providing. Suddenly a business can clean a hotel room or do some landscaping or chop up an animal more cheaply ... ergo more "efficiently".

    But with mass immigration we've seeing growth in America's actual efficiency of labor--doing more with a unit of labor--stall and decline. We've slowed down--especially relative to where we should be--in figuring out how to do things with less labor. Who needs improvements to a backhoe when you've got Mexicans? ... then Salvadorans, then Guatemalans? Or to figure out how to further automate home framing? Or how to clean a hotel room? Or how to further automate meat packing ... just bring in Somalis!

    Mass immigration is precisely an attack on precisely that which creates prosperity--using our brains to figure out how to use our labor more efficiently.

    And worse, of course, it attacks the very thing that creates national peace and prosperity--having a high IQ, conscientious, high-trust, cohesive population.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @animalogic

    As George Borjas has pointed out, when economists talk about “the benefits” or “gains” or “efficiencies” from immigration, all they are talking about is lower wages.

    That’s the “efficiency” immigration is providing. Suddenly a business can clean a hotel room or do some landscaping or chop up an animal more cheaply … ergo more “efficiently”.

    The minimum wage has a purpose in a society that lets undesirastizos in-it makes them unemployable. If there is a minimum wage anyway and strict worker safety rules make Teamster approved working conditions the only ones acceptable, the undesirastizos with their willingness to be overworked and underhoused will be at a competitive disadvantage. Their lack of English skills, odor, and general demeanor will not be offset by their willingness to do really hard work.

    People who grew up doing hard physical work have a competitive advantage in physical work capacity for the rest of their lives. Their kids growing up in America won’t, they will be fat, dumb, and unsightly, but they won’t have the capacity to do the stuff their fathers did. They will collect welfare and have children of their own. And they will vote-not as eagerly as some groups, but enough to make them a political constituency.

    If they worked as hard in Mexico or Guatemala or wherever as hard as they do here and the rule of law were respected there those would be nice places. Let’s make them do that instead.

  92. @Alden
    @Lugash

    As of today, 49,900 deaths in a country of 330 million. That’s less than 1/4 of one percent.

    And who knows if they are all Chinese flu deaths or just classified as such to scam more taxpayers money. ?

    Replies: @Federalist, @Achmed E. Newman

    As of today, 49,900 deaths in a country of 330 million. That’s less than 1/4 of one percent.

    Wouldn’t 1/4 of one percent of 330,000,000 be 825,000?

  93. @North Carolina Resident
    @Lot

    One other reason for near-empty flights... Airlines must fly routes or risk losing landing/takeoff time slots. Those rules have been suspended, as they were post 9/11 and a few other times.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    NC Resident, that slot business is only for the foreign airports + very special ones like New York’s LaGuardia (maybe JFK too) and Reagan Field. They aren’t actual times, but just, if you don’t fly the flight very regularly, I think you lose them.

  94. @Jim Christian

    Or some other clever plan?
     
    I have a clever plan. In returning to Boston this week from Tampa, I choose to drive rather than fly as I did when I came down in January. Enterprise, $98/Week, full size car, gasoline around a buck-sixty. I see the conditions on the airlines at the moment and fares are over twice what I flew down on even with jet fuel being insanely cheap these days. Hideous. Added bonus, no one will expect a two week quarantine from me for having flown up. I'll be able to do 1600 miles in two days without directly contacting more than a half-dozen people.

    Clever enough for me.

    Replies: @Meretricious, @AnotherDad, @Achmed E. Newman

    Jim, I’ve written it here, and it’s on Peak Stupidity, there’s never been a better time for a road trip in 1/2 a century! Cheap gas and wide-open roads. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    I’ve driven a dozen and a half times across the country on various routes from various origins, and to various destinations. I’ll tell you one thing: from the east coast to the west, you’ve got to really want to get there, or it doesn’t work. I’m no Ron Unz, but my mad calculus skills told me that at 55 mph (remember that?) it’s mathematically impossible to drive across the country. ;-} BTW, Texas, from the Sabine River crossing from Louisiana to El Paso is 850 miles!

    I don’t know why Jet Blue is charging you so much right now.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, my trip was Tampa to Boston, around 1600 by car, 1190 in the air. Wound up taking a Jet Blue flight, they had a seat open brand new A320 Neo. Sweet bird, Achmed. Heh, everytime I board one, I remember the 1000+- comment article on the 737MAXX article. Greatest thread I ever read, didn't miss one comment. Good Stuff. That A320 (or A321) positively rockets to 39K with 50 souls on board. All of us spaced out. Bars were closed in the terminal, no booze on the flight, bummer. It was fine. And it was 284.00. If I had waited until Wed., I coulda gotten one for 158. Screw it. I need to do shit up here this week.

    Oh, everyone on the plane had decent-looking, Hawkeye-Pierce surgical masks on, too. That being the case everywhere I go, I don't sweat masks. Don't even have any. Given my activities the past four months, if I was gonna get it, I woulda already. Hilarious how terrified everyone is. They have 99% of the population in a real tizzy.

    Pussies. Clint Eastwood is right. We're Pussy-Nation now. Way, way Pussy Nation.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  95. OT: speaking of theaters, I was thinking that SNL was totally not understanding their opportunity.

    Where is their usual audience on a typical Saturday night? They’re out! Where are they now? Stuck at home! Do why not do a better show, rather than a terrible telepresence geek show? Which they did last week.

    So now I’m watching it, and this week they figured it out and used better production values. But they still had their same old problem – poor writing.

    Progressive hard Left Trump-hating propaganda, that’s all they’ve got. It’s like when 1960’s food companies figured out that the more sugar you add, the more people buy. After a while, cereal was just sugar.

    I also didn’t realize the importance of the New York City vignettes, the live audience at a theater (and I just realized that Jimmy Fallon relies on the same trick); it’s a psychological hack and it’s about three quarters of what the show has.

  96. @epebble
    @sondjata

    Now that you have understood Wendy is all safety theatre, will you go there again? That is the more interesting and important question. We are all aware of traffic accidents but drive around. Where is the risk/reward equilibrium with Covid? I saw plenty of regular folks streaming into hair salons, restaurants and airplanes today (on TV); but dental hygienists are apprehensive about going back to work.

    Replies: @sondjata, @animalogic

    I think I saw somewhere that dental hygienists had a 98 % chance of catching the virus (dental workers were 3 out of the top 5 most exposed jobs). Is it true? Beats me….

    • Replies: @res
    @animalogic

    Don't know about the numbers (seems hard to believe), but see this.
    https://www.todaysrdh.com/covid-19-social-distancing-for-the-dental-hygienist/


    On March 10, 2020, Business Insider ran an article listing the top 47 most dangerous jobs for one’s health according to data procured from the U.S. Department of Labor. Interestingly, medical laboratory technicians came in at #19, and histotechnologists/histotechnicians were listed at #13.

    But here is where it gets interesting: #7 prosthodontists; #5 dental assistants; #4 dental laboratory technicians; #2 dentists. And, coming in as the #1 most dangerous job? Dental hygienists.

    Five of the top 10 most health-hazardous jobs were occupied by workers in the dental community. Even those working directly in the labs with diseased specimens on a daily basis didn’t break into the top 20.
     
    Business Insider article at https://www.businessinsider.com/most-unhealthy-jobs-in-america-2017-4#1-dental-hygienists-47

    Top three health risks:
    1. Exposure to disease and infections: 100
    2. Exposure to radiation: 91
    3. Time spent sitting: 85
     
  97. @The Alarmist
    Does it really matter when you are breathing poorly filtered re-circulated air?

    Replies: @animalogic

    Were manufacturing of basic goods, such as n 95 masks (& gloves, sanitizer) nationally located then much of the lock down would have been unnecessary. None of these products are “sophisticated”. Had they been made available in quantity, within weeks of, say February, the virus spread would have been much reduced.
    Such are the invisible, unspeakable wages of neoliberalism…. (Running around stealing from your own States & other countries is NOT an adequate response).

  98. @AnotherDad
    @Dave Pinsen


    Good example here of how cheap immigrant labor in U.S. meat packing plants makes them more vulnerable to corona than more automated European plants.
     
    Spot on big Dave.

    As George Borjas has pointed out, when economists talk about "the benefits" or "gains" or "efficiencies" from immigration, all they are talking about is lower wages.

    That's the "efficiency" immigration is providing. Suddenly a business can clean a hotel room or do some landscaping or chop up an animal more cheaply ... ergo more "efficiently".

    But with mass immigration we've seeing growth in America's actual efficiency of labor--doing more with a unit of labor--stall and decline. We've slowed down--especially relative to where we should be--in figuring out how to do things with less labor. Who needs improvements to a backhoe when you've got Mexicans? ... then Salvadorans, then Guatemalans? Or to figure out how to further automate home framing? Or how to clean a hotel room? Or how to further automate meat packing ... just bring in Somalis!

    Mass immigration is precisely an attack on precisely that which creates prosperity--using our brains to figure out how to use our labor more efficiently.

    And worse, of course, it attacks the very thing that creates national peace and prosperity--having a high IQ, conscientious, high-trust, cohesive population.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @animalogic

    “Mass immigration is precisely an attack on precisely that which creates prosperity–using our brains to figure out how to use our labor more efficiently.”
    Your point is completely backed up by history. Prior to the 20th C the US often had under supplies of labour. This had 2 hugely positive effects : it put upward pressure on wages & (thus) stimulated the development of labour saving machinery
    ( Agricultural machinery comes to mind as a good example). Real greater productivity was the result. (From 1932 to 197? that productivity was increasingly better “shared” creating even greater prosperity)

  99. @prosa123
    Activity at Area 51 is picking up. People who monitor the "Janet" flights (the 737's that bring workers to the base from Las Vegas) say there are two or three round trips a day, up from just one. That would seem to indicate that more than just essential security and maintenance workers are on base, so work on secret projects, probably the B-21, may be ramping up.

    Replies: @animalogic

    Or a lot of bigwigs (a la 1665) are fucking off to more hygienic climes… such as planet X, to escape the plague….

  100. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Dave Pinsen

    Have the soylent green factories been affected by the virus?

    Replies: @Joe Stalin, @animalogic

    Soylent Green equities are rising 10-15 % per week. Buy!

  101. @Alden
    @Lugash

    As of today, 49,900 deaths in a country of 330 million. That’s less than 1/4 of one percent.

    And who knows if they are all Chinese flu deaths or just classified as such to scam more taxpayers money. ?

    Replies: @Federalist, @Achmed E. Newman

    Ah, crap, that’s what I get for not checking the math. My agree was with the 2n paragraph, still true, even though, yeah, that 0.25% sounded WAY TOO HIGH at first read. Federalist is right, and the other way to correct it is to note that this is 0.015%.

  102. @Reg Cæsar
    @sondjata


    Related. Was at a Wendy’s today. The drive through window had plexiglass similar to what is being used in the supermarket. However; since the plexiglass stops above where the food and money is exchanged it is essentially of no use. Why? Because the direct avenue of transmission from driver to attendant and vice versa is unobstructed.
     
    I went to Culver's. One pays at the window, where the cashier has gloves, then drives up to a space to wait for another worker to bring a closed-bag order to the car on foot.

    This sounds a bit safer. At any rate, even in normal times you don't want the same hands touching both the money and the food.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HONT41B5KLk&t=0m9s

    Replies: @Ozymandias

    At any rate, even in normal times you don’t want the same hands touching both the money and the food.

    At Arbys, the kitchen delivers the bag into a Lexan, then the cashier holds the Lexan out the window for you to take the bag out of. But most of the places in town won’t take cash anymore.

  103. @animalogic
    @epebble

    I think I saw somewhere that dental hygienists had a 98 % chance of catching the virus (dental workers were 3 out of the top 5 most exposed jobs). Is it true? Beats me....

    Replies: @res

    Don’t know about the numbers (seems hard to believe), but see this.
    https://www.todaysrdh.com/covid-19-social-distancing-for-the-dental-hygienist/

    On March 10, 2020, Business Insider ran an article listing the top 47 most dangerous jobs for one’s health according to data procured from the U.S. Department of Labor. Interestingly, medical laboratory technicians came in at #19, and histotechnologists/histotechnicians were listed at #13.

    But here is where it gets interesting: #7 prosthodontists; #5 dental assistants; #4 dental laboratory technicians; #2 dentists. And, coming in as the #1 most dangerous job? Dental hygienists.

    Five of the top 10 most health-hazardous jobs were occupied by workers in the dental community. Even those working directly in the labs with diseased specimens on a daily basis didn’t break into the top 20.

    Business Insider article at https://www.businessinsider.com/most-unhealthy-jobs-in-america-2017-4#1-dental-hygienists-47

    Top three health risks:
    1. Exposure to disease and infections: 100
    2. Exposure to radiation: 91
    3. Time spent sitting: 85

  104. Option E.

    xxx xxx
    xxx xxx
    xxx xxx
    ME xxx
    xxx xxx
    xxx xxx
    xxx xxx

  105. @Reg Cæsar
    Unidirectional dating is also a terrible idea, especially for a first date.

    Who came up with "dinner-and-a-movie", anyway? The restaurateurs' association in cahoots with Hollywood? You spend an hour staring into each other's faces with resultant pressure to say the right thing, or at least not the wrong thing. Then you sit silent for two hours looking at something else.

    I prefer the 90° rule. You are at right angles all night, able but not forced to chat. Putt-putt golf is ideal.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/ce/31/f6ce313e01a1d2eda6020b59e922bb75.jpg

    Replies: @Sparkon

    Nice; very well composed photo. Taken by a pro, no doubt. Using Google Image search, I found similar photos in color at Alamy and Getty, stock photography companies. Alamy says the photograph was taken by H. Armstrong Roberts, dated 1 January 1964, but see below.

    Newspapers and magazines were first able to reproduce photographs instead of line art in the mid-1880s with the invention of the half-tone and its use on a printing press. Initially starting with staff photographers, independent free-lance photographers eventually took over. One of the first examples of a stock photo was circa 1920 when American photographer H. Armstrong Roberts ensured that the people photographed in “Group in Front of Tri-Motor Airplane” all signed model releases. This allowed the photograph and others like it to be commercially viable. In an effort to save the cost of hiring photographers for commission-based photo shoots, publishers and advertisers began to consider stock photos as a less risky alternative. One of the first major stock photography libraries [Retrofile] was founded in 1920 by H. Armstrong Roberts

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/1950s-1960s-young-couple-man-woman-play-miniature-golf-summer-date-picture-id563962889

    She looks to be about 5’3″, 115 lbs., while I’d say he’s around 5’11”, 155. Check his skinny belt, and look at those grody, cut-off sneakers gym shoes!

    Her BMI would be about 20.4, his 21.6.

    As they say, less is more.

    Or at least it was.

    However, another shot from HAR’s mini golf photo session, titled “1950s 1960s YOUNG COUPLE…” also appears at Getty, but is dated August 13, 1959. In the color photos, the couple looks tan and their attire suggests August rather than January, so I’d go with the earlier date.

    https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/1950s-1960s-young-couple-man-woman-play-miniature-golf-news-photo/563962889

    Elvis Presley’s “A Big Hunk O’ Love” was #1 on Billboard’s Hot 100 for Aug. 17, 1959, followed by the Drifters’ “There Goes My Baby” and Carl Dobkins Jrs.’ “My Heart Is An Open Book.”

    By the way, rear-facing seating has been shown by some researchers to be much safer in the event of a collision, crash, or hard landing.

  106. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Many of the people who are especially vulnerable to dying from it are already dead.

    People keep saying this. Could somebody explain the logic behind this popular belief?

    This could be true if infection rates in nursing homes are higher than in the general population. That might be true. Is it?

    Otherwise, my impression is the infection tended to spread early among energetic, gregarious people, such as my go-to example of skiers. But I doubt if infected skiers are more likely to die of this than the average person if infected.

    Replies: @Mehen, @Bleuteaux, @Anon87

    Upstate NY is currently not counting nursing home deaths very well at all. Compared to the official NY state data on deaths, things aren’t adding up.

    Re: airline seating, don’t discount the odd airflows of recirculated air and then also seat having an air valve to adjust direction and velocity.

  107. @prosa123
    @Jim Christian

    One thing to be careful about is something I've noted on my lengthy drives to work. With cops in most places being fairly thick on the ground due to mandatory overtime and leave cancellations, and with actual crime rates reasonably low, what you've got are a lot of radar traps.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    with actual crime rates reasonably low, what you’ve got are a lot of radar traps.

    I wound up flying anyway, turns out. Agreed about that in busy counties like say, Fairfax, Virginia and the like. And, I was kidding about the drive it like I stole it part. That’s for motorcycles on twisty roads. Not that I baby my cars. Thing about these days is, it isn’t economical to put cops in remote stretches where there are few cars on the interstates. 75 north outta Tampa to Knoxville is pretty remote except for Atlanta. Then I81 up to Pa. and I 84 connector is pretty remote too. In Vermont, there are cops aplenty up in ski country in the winter, they’re gone in the summer. Affords lots of super-speedway motorcycling at that time. Oh well, don’t wanna give up all my good spots, heh..

    C- ya!

  108. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jim Christian

    Jim, I've written it here, and it's on Peak Stupidity, there's never been a better time for a road trip in 1/2 a century! Cheap gas and wide-open roads. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    I've driven a dozen and a half times across the country on various routes from various origins, and to various destinations. I'll tell you one thing: from the east coast to the west, you've got to really want to get there, or it doesn't work. I'm no Ron Unz, but my mad calculus skills told me that at 55 mph (remember that?) it's mathematically impossible to drive across the country. ;-} BTW, Texas, from the Sabine River crossing from Louisiana to El Paso is 850 miles!

    I don't know why Jet Blue is charging you so much right now.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    Well, my trip was Tampa to Boston, around 1600 by car, 1190 in the air. Wound up taking a Jet Blue flight, they had a seat open brand new A320 Neo. Sweet bird, Achmed. Heh, everytime I board one, I remember the 1000+- comment article on the 737MAXX article. Greatest thread I ever read, didn’t miss one comment. Good Stuff. That A320 (or A321) positively rockets to 39K with 50 souls on board. All of us spaced out. Bars were closed in the terminal, no booze on the flight, bummer. It was fine. And it was 284.00. If I had waited until Wed., I coulda gotten one for 158. Screw it. I need to do shit up here this week.

    Oh, everyone on the plane had decent-looking, Hawkeye-Pierce surgical masks on, too. That being the case everywhere I go, I don’t sweat masks. Don’t even have any. Given my activities the past four months, if I was gonna get it, I woulda already. Hilarious how terrified everyone is. They have 99% of the population in a real tizzy.

    Pussies. Clint Eastwood is right. We’re Pussy-Nation now. Way, way Pussy Nation.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jim Christian

    Thanks for the report, Jim. No masks for me. Nobody on the planes say anything either way. The wife is pissed I don't wear it, but I'm just not gonna lie to her (if would sure be easier, I tell you).

    Haha, about Hawkeye Pierce. The movie beat the hell out of the show.

  109. @AnotherDad
    @Jim Christian

    Huh? But it's never been more pleasant on airliners. AnotherChild#3 and her intended flew down here a few days back. Everyone a row to themselves. Her young man--who is tall and would generally be squished in--said it was the best flight he'd ever been on.

    I've been trying to convince my son to fly down and join us. $11 on Frontier.

    I'm a big believer in road trips--see America! (I road tripped our family all over the US when the kids were kids.) But right now is a great time to fly.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    But right now is a great time to fly.

    Appreciate the sentiments, but we’re starting to see some real nightmares. On my flight (booked it sunday, got home last night), there were maybe forty or 50 folks total going to Boston outta Tampa International. In their safe-spacing, I went from seat 8A to 4F, got more room, heh.. It was an ok flight except for no booze. But flights that book fully out of big cities are said to be pretty bad risks and not so cheery. People with masks are starting to hassle people without masks on these planes, too, but that’s mostly broads whining so far. No one said anything to me, I had no mask but everyone else did, therefore, I don’t NEED no stinkin’ mask. Scroom all. In the pantheon of things that will kill me, this one is pretty slim–so far. I dunno how people live like that, terrorized 24-7 over news accounts from the Connected. Puppet heads.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  110. @Jim Christian
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, my trip was Tampa to Boston, around 1600 by car, 1190 in the air. Wound up taking a Jet Blue flight, they had a seat open brand new A320 Neo. Sweet bird, Achmed. Heh, everytime I board one, I remember the 1000+- comment article on the 737MAXX article. Greatest thread I ever read, didn't miss one comment. Good Stuff. That A320 (or A321) positively rockets to 39K with 50 souls on board. All of us spaced out. Bars were closed in the terminal, no booze on the flight, bummer. It was fine. And it was 284.00. If I had waited until Wed., I coulda gotten one for 158. Screw it. I need to do shit up here this week.

    Oh, everyone on the plane had decent-looking, Hawkeye-Pierce surgical masks on, too. That being the case everywhere I go, I don't sweat masks. Don't even have any. Given my activities the past four months, if I was gonna get it, I woulda already. Hilarious how terrified everyone is. They have 99% of the population in a real tizzy.

    Pussies. Clint Eastwood is right. We're Pussy-Nation now. Way, way Pussy Nation.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks for the report, Jim. No masks for me. Nobody on the planes say anything either way. The wife is pissed I don’t wear it, but I’m just not gonna lie to her (if would sure be easier, I tell you).

    Haha, about Hawkeye Pierce. The movie beat the hell out of the show.

  111. @MEH 0910
    @SunBakedSuburb


    and spend more time with Tiny Duck.
     
    Not if Tiny Duck, who hasn't commented here since March 26th, sleeps with the fishes.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jsYEMgZb_-4/hqdefault.jpg

    Replies: @MEH 0910

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