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How Much Would the Simpsons' House Cost in 2019?
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How much would The Simpsons’ house at 742 Evergreen Terrace — a 2-story, 4-bedroom house, with an attached 2-car garage, basement, and a backyard big enough to have a treehouse, in a school district that appears to have 85% white students — sell for in 2019?

As a promotional stunt, a replica of The Simpsons’ house was built in a new Las Vegas suburb in 1997.

It was said to be 2200 square feet (presumably not counting any basement) and to be worth $120,000 in 1997.

But it appears to be considerably tighter in dimensions than the cartoon house, which is rather generously proportioned. The cartoon house is much wider, with the garage set to the right of the main house rather than embedded in it like in the Vegas replica.

Evergreen Terrace is a reference to Evergreen State, the public hippy college in Olympia, WA that Matt Groening attended, which has lately been in the news over its Great Awokening meltdown.

Olympia is the state capital. It has only 50,000 people, but to Kurt Cobain, it was Bright Lights, Big City compared to his home town of Aberdeen, WA.

Springfield in the TV show appears to be a medium sized city. It has a minor league baseball team, the Isotopes, which Albuquerque named their Triple AAA team after in 2002.

Looking at Zillow for Olympia, houses in the 2500 to 3000 sf size range from $325k to $779k.

Here’s a 2755 sf house on a 10,500 sf lot in Olympia.

It looks pretty comparable to The Simpsons house, or maybe a little smaller, like the Las Vegas replica house.

It recently sold for $500k.

Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?

 

 
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  1. For that matter, how could shoe-sales,an Al Bundy afford his digs in Suburban Chicago?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Schaumburg is a pretty prosperous suburb of Chicago, with lots of newer companies located there. They were promoting Schaumburg as the Silicon Prairie when I lived in Chicago. The name is considered amusing, though, because it's Germanic, rather like Krusty the Klown's rule that K is a funny letter.
  2. @The Alarmist
    For that matter, how could shoe-sales,an Al Bundy afford his digs in Suburban Chicago?

    Schaumburg is a pretty prosperous suburb of Chicago, with lots of newer companies located there. They were promoting Schaumburg as the Silicon Prairie when I lived in Chicago. The name is considered amusing, though, because it’s Germanic, rather like Krusty the Klown’s rule that K is a funny letter.

    • Replies: @donvonburg
    Schaumburg is the home of Mother M, as we perhaps not so fondly refer to Motorola, the company that screwed itself out of being the number one semiconductor house in the world several times over by the same exact tactic. Their two way radio equipment is still the stuff you want when the chips are down, though.
    , @t
    According to Chicago Mag. the average single family home in Schaumburg cost 320K in 2018 http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-July-2019/Where-To-Buy-Now/#flats
    , @njguy73
    The Sunshine Boys, a play written in 1972 and filmed in 1975, did it first.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO6if5s0zmk
  3. @Steve Sailer
    Schaumburg is a pretty prosperous suburb of Chicago, with lots of newer companies located there. They were promoting Schaumburg as the Silicon Prairie when I lived in Chicago. The name is considered amusing, though, because it's Germanic, rather like Krusty the Klown's rule that K is a funny letter.

    Schaumburg is the home of Mother M, as we perhaps not so fondly refer to Motorola, the company that screwed itself out of being the number one semiconductor house in the world several times over by the same exact tactic. Their two way radio equipment is still the stuff you want when the chips are down, though.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I had an in-law who worked for Motorola in its cell phone division. In the 1980s and early 1990s, Motorola was going gangbusters in cell phones. Then, however, I started to hear the N Word: Nokia.
  4. Well, maybe Homer could get a lot of overtime at the plant? Not that lots of overtime and nuclear power plant technician are phrases you want to go together.

  5. Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?

    Isn’t he a nuclear engineer? And Margie seems to come from a posher background than Homer, so perhaps she inherited some money.

    If so, 500K is doable.

    • Replies: @mmack
    Sadly, Homer is a Nuclear Technician, not a Nuclear Engineer. In the show he got the job after graduating High School and working some dead end (implied minimum wage) jobs before getting Marge pregnant and really needing a good job to provide for his family. Save for one episode I recall where he was promoted to, and demoted from, upper management (Simpson and Delilah) he’s been stuck in Sector 7G for years. He’s also a member of a Nuclear Technician Union (which he serves as president of for one episode), which implies blue collar employment. The running joke is EVERYBODY gets promoted over Homer, even Marge in the one episode she took a job at the power plant.
    , @nebulafox
    I'm not terribly familiar with the show, but my impression is that he's more of a blue collar factory worker type than an actual engineer. I think the creators just plopped him as a safety technician there for the comic potential. The potential effect of workplace incompetence and laziness is exponentially scaled (with n >>> 1!) when you are working in a nuclear plant...
    , @International Jew
    Not an engineer. He's some kind of dashboard monitor. By now, his job's being done remotely by someone in a Bombay slum illegally tapping the internet cable of his neighbor, who's interpreting your X-rays.
    https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/assets.barcroft.tv/967ce820-b7a0-4143-b4d4-eda5ee67c5c4.jpg
  6. Frank Grimes did wonder how Homer could afford his house.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
    , @Danindc
    Frank Grimes, or Grimey as he liked to be called, is one of the best characters on the Simpsons. Just how he got injured in that silo explosion...

    He was right too. Homer was a total ass in that episode.
    , @Danindc
    That scene is so well done. Absolutely perfect. “If you lived in any other country in the world you’d have starved to death years ago”

    Man I miss America with a sense of humor. Even Conan O’brien Who is a comic genius is totally cucked and his Twitter isn’t funny at all.

    Has Jim Downey cucked? I think he may be holding out. Snl will occasionally have a funny skit- I assume that’s him.
    , @Lugash

    Well, maybe Homer could get a lot of overtime at the plant? Not that lots of overtime and nuclear power plant technician are phrases you want to go together.
     
    SNPP and it's workers weren't congruent. Groenig wrote them as oafish blue collar factory workers. It lead to some funny episodes, but in reality they would have never gotten past the front door of a nuclear plant. Maybe having them working at nuclear production facility like Oak Ridge.
  7. @donvonburg
    Schaumburg is the home of Mother M, as we perhaps not so fondly refer to Motorola, the company that screwed itself out of being the number one semiconductor house in the world several times over by the same exact tactic. Their two way radio equipment is still the stuff you want when the chips are down, though.

    I had an in-law who worked for Motorola in its cell phone division. In the 1980s and early 1990s, Motorola was going gangbusters in cell phones. Then, however, I started to hear the N Word: Nokia.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    I stupidly advised my neighbour to buy a Motorola G5 phone back in the day, when it died I revised my advice and told him to buy Korean:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFrDc-725Qc
    , @Alfa158
    I visited Motorola in Schaumburg back in the aughts. The town looked like one of those pleasant leafy Ozzie and Harriet suburbs that we SoCalians are often trying to emulate in our coastal desert.
    Motorola was in the process of withdrawing from the tricky, low margin business of actually manufacturing stuff and having a yard sale of their assets. They had a division that was competing with the company I worked for and Motorola was going to just shut it down and boot everyone there to the curb. If they had, my company would have virtually set up folding tables and chairs outside the facilities they were closing and hired all the talent as they were walking out the door with their cardboard boxes of personal stuff.
    Unfortunately, one of the managers at the doomed division had a little more on the ball and pointed out to the Motorola executives that our company could be induced to buy the division instead of waiting to scarf up all the talent for free. It worked out for us anyway, we had pay up but took over our only real competitor for a huge customer. The ex Motorolans for their part didn’t have to bother boxing up their stuff and just kept working where they were with a new company name on their badges.
    , @Lars Porsena
    I remember that. Everyone in the trades use to have push-to-talk cellphone/walkie-talkies.
    , @JimB
    My first flip phone was a Moto. My second was a Nokia.
    , @Anonymous
    The Motorola Razr was the hottest cellphone in the mid to late 2000s. It was a flipphone and the slimmest cellphone at the time. People don't remember but it was a high end product associated with celebrities and the wealthy at the time. Then smartphones came out and everyone forgot about the Razr, and Motorola didn't successfully pivot to smartphones.
  8. @LondonBob
    https://youtu.be/axHoy0hnQy8

    Frank Grimes did wonder how Homer could afford his house.

    Thanks.

  9. Doubtful.

    Abe paid the down payment for the home, and they save on clothing.

    Homer is a nuclear engineer or technician though.

  10. In the original timeline of the show (since nuked) Homer bought the house at 742 Evergreen Terrace in 1983/84, per the episode Lisa’s First Word. It’s stated that Homer’s father Abe sold his house so Homer could buy a house for his family:

    So could he afford the house on one salary? With a big enough down payment, sure. In the real world a relative selling their house and moving in with them is how my wife’s cousin swung buying his lakeside home. However, in the show Homer is always maxxed out on his loans and credit cads, and he and Marge always drive beat up cars.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My friend from Rice U., Jeff Martin, wrote "Lisa's First Word." Well, he wasn't a Rice student, he was a high school student who lived in our dorm with his dad, Professor William Martin. Then he went to Harvard and became part of The Simpsons Harvard Mafia, as my neighbor, who was a screenwriter for old fashioed "Married with Children" called all bright Simpsons writers who came to town in 1990.,
  11. @mmack
    In the original timeline of the show (since nuked) Homer bought the house at 742 Evergreen Terrace in 1983/84, per the episode Lisa’s First Word. It’s stated that Homer’s father Abe sold his house so Homer could buy a house for his family:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKBtgjbsqQ

    So could he afford the house on one salary? With a big enough down payment, sure. In the real world a relative selling their house and moving in with them is how my wife’s cousin swung buying his lakeside home. However, in the show Homer is always maxxed out on his loans and credit cads, and he and Marge always drive beat up cars.

    My friend from Rice U., Jeff Martin, wrote “Lisa’s First Word.” Well, he wasn’t a Rice student, he was a high school student who lived in our dorm with his dad, Professor William Martin. Then he went to Harvard and became part of The Simpsons Harvard Mafia, as my neighbor, who was a screenwriter for old fashioed “Married with Children” called all bright Simpsons writers who came to town in 1990.,

    • Replies: @mmack
    Steve,

    The only way I can one up you is that Dan Castellaneta, the voice of Homer Jay Simpson, is an alum of my Alma Mater, Northern Illinois U. Of course I didn't attend when Dan did, so it's a half step one up.

    The original set of writers for The Simpsons is what made the show great. Can you imagine a show in 2019 where a blue collar white man gets his girlfriend pregnant and marries her? Homer wasn't a Doctor, Lawyer, executive, or any highly paid professional. He and Marge are barely holding their heads above water, and Homer is dangerously overextended credit wise. Bart and Lisa were originally what most siblings are in real life: little hellions who terrorize each other. Before Lisa went proto-SJW she caused as much trouble as Bart. Both Homer and Marge were tempted extramaritally but remembered their vows. The animated characters were more "real" than flesh and blood actors. Over thirty seasons that's changed but imagine the original premise of the show transported to today. Heads would explode.

    The really great thing is they live in Springfield, which given that 31 states have a town or county named Springfield in them, could be anywhere. If the Simpsons lived in Springfield, OH, maybe Homer could swing that house on one blue collar salary.
    , @ScarletNumber
    Wow, looking at his Wikipedia page, Jeff has written a ton of memorable episodes.
  12. @Twinkie

    Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?
     
    Isn't he a nuclear engineer? And Margie seems to come from a posher background than Homer, so perhaps she inherited some money.

    If so, 500K is doable.

    Sadly, Homer is a Nuclear Technician, not a Nuclear Engineer. In the show he got the job after graduating High School and working some dead end (implied minimum wage) jobs before getting Marge pregnant and really needing a good job to provide for his family. Save for one episode I recall where he was promoted to, and demoted from, upper management (Simpson and Delilah) he’s been stuck in Sector 7G for years. He’s also a member of a Nuclear Technician Union (which he serves as president of for one episode), which implies blue collar employment. The running joke is EVERYBODY gets promoted over Homer, even Marge in the one episode she took a job at the power plant.

  13. If I remember correctly, the school district has about 85% yellow students

    • LOL: Abe, Kronos
    • Replies: @Mr. Blank
    If I recall, the original rationale of having the characters be bright yellow was so they couldn't be identified with any race or ethnic group. They wanted the characters to be "universal." That later fell by the wayside, though, as they introduced dark-skinned characters, so bright yellow became "white" by default.
  14. Here’s a 2755 sf house on a 10,500 sf lot in Olympia.

    It looks pretty comparable to The Simpsons house, or maybe a little smaller, like the Las Vegas replica house.

    It recently sold for $500k.

    Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?

    According to Zillow, the monthly payments (including insurance and taxes) on a 500k home in Olympia, WA, financed with a 30 year fixed mortgage, would be about $2,300 at today’s rates, and assuming a $100,000 down payment.

    The old credit rule of thumb mortgage bankers used to use back in the 1980s (now mostly abandoned) was that the monthly payments on a home should not exceed 28% of take home pay. By that long ago standard of prudent lending, Homer Simpson would have to take home $99,000 a year, after taxes.

    Salary.com says that nuclear engineers make about $85k a year, tops. I assume that that is an average of higher paid engineering roles and lower paid technician roles.

    So, no. The Simpsons can’t afford their 500k home on a single income in 2019, assuming they’ve salted away $100k for the down payment. Unless Marge has money of her own, to put down as an additional down payment.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I remembered that 28% figure before my eyes got to it, Piltdown. However, wasn't it a percentage of gross pay? I was involved in that world, but I had to get a co-signer myself, which is a funny story, come to think of it.

    Thanks for the fun post, Steve. I've been spending time arguing with ignorant Commies under some other unz.com posts, and this is a more peaceful world here, by far!
    , @JimB

    The old credit rule of thumb mortgage bankers used to use back in the 1980s (now mostly abandoned) was that the monthly payments on a home should not exceed 28% of take home pay. By that long ago standard of prudent lending, Homer Simpson would have to take home $99,000 a year, after taxes.
    ...
    So, no. The Simpsons can’t afford their 500k home on a single income in 2019, assuming they’ve salted away $100k for the down payment.
     
    But Apu could.

    https://www.indiaabroad.com/indian-americans/report-indian-americans-income-highest-in-u-s/article_ffc92b60-9ff9-11e7-93fd-479826805b04.html
  15. Where would the Simpson house be located? Nuclear power plants are usually distant from expensive cities.

    These 15 U.S. Cities Are Most at Risk of Experiencing a Nuclear Meltdown
    https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/u-s-cities-risk-nuclear-meltdown.html/

    Maybe here?

    Quad Cities Nuclear Generating Station
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_Cities_Nuclear_Generating_Station

    The area they live in seems virtually all white. How come Lisa doesn’t have high performing Asian friends to remind her that they have to study more than she to get into Harvard? She would probably be in a class tracked as smart or ‘gifted’. It would actually be funny if they cut to her gifted and talented classroom filled with identical Chinese Americans a couple of South Asians (Apu’s kids), an African Igbo-American and Lisa. Maybe another white kid of dubious Hispanic ancestry that insists he is Mexican. After school, the Asian kids go, fruitlessly, to the local Kumon math center, while Lisa plays soccer (literally playing ball), and Bart plays video games and answers phone calls from military recruiters. The only Asian kid with a real chance at Harvard is a Korean American girl who plays golf all day while her tiger Mommy quizzes her on math and claps when she sinks a putt.

    Simpson is some sort of nuclear technician, but probably not degreed but maybe credentialed. So probably well paid for the area.

    I think in one episode they are living with grandpa and they send Grand Pa to an old folks home, so the house might be Grand pa Simpson’s originally, likely paid off. The house seems to have an addition, the garage, which seems like not as good, so cheaper, as one building. They lived in it in the 80s too.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Where would the Simpson house be located? Nuclear power plants are usually distant from expensive cities.
     
    The ancient Davis-Besse plant is 30 miles from Toledo. The giant mosque in Perrysburg, America's largest from 1983-2005, is only 12 miles away. Which is a greater threat?

    Note that the mosque was mortgaged and paid off from Detroit liquor sale profits, so it's rather louche by Islamic standards. It even had a female president, possibly the first in Islam.



    A mosque in America's heartland
    , @Anonymous

    Bart ... answers phone calls from military recruiters.
     
    No, he wouldn't. He would be part of the 75 percent of 18 to 24 year-olds who can't qualify to join the armed forces nowadays.
  16. The Simpsons’ street name may be a reference to Olympia, but it is generally hinted that the town of Springfield is supposed to be in or near Ohio. It would probably be better to search similarly-sized Anytown, USAs in Ohio for a price comparison.

  17. @Steve Sailer
    Schaumburg is a pretty prosperous suburb of Chicago, with lots of newer companies located there. They were promoting Schaumburg as the Silicon Prairie when I lived in Chicago. The name is considered amusing, though, because it's Germanic, rather like Krusty the Klown's rule that K is a funny letter.

    According to Chicago Mag. the average single family home in Schaumburg cost 320K in 2018 http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-July-2019/Where-To-Buy-Now/#flats

    • Replies: @GU
    And the property taxes are probably $8,000 a year.
  18. @Steve Sailer
    I had an in-law who worked for Motorola in its cell phone division. In the 1980s and early 1990s, Motorola was going gangbusters in cell phones. Then, however, I started to hear the N Word: Nokia.

    I stupidly advised my neighbour to buy a Motorola G5 phone back in the day, when it died I revised my advice and told him to buy Korean:

  19. @Steve Sailer
    My friend from Rice U., Jeff Martin, wrote "Lisa's First Word." Well, he wasn't a Rice student, he was a high school student who lived in our dorm with his dad, Professor William Martin. Then he went to Harvard and became part of The Simpsons Harvard Mafia, as my neighbor, who was a screenwriter for old fashioed "Married with Children" called all bright Simpsons writers who came to town in 1990.,

    Steve,

    The only way I can one up you is that Dan Castellaneta, the voice of Homer Jay Simpson, is an alum of my Alma Mater, Northern Illinois U. Of course I didn’t attend when Dan did, so it’s a half step one up.

    The original set of writers for The Simpsons is what made the show great. Can you imagine a show in 2019 where a blue collar white man gets his girlfriend pregnant and marries her? Homer wasn’t a Doctor, Lawyer, executive, or any highly paid professional. He and Marge are barely holding their heads above water, and Homer is dangerously overextended credit wise. Bart and Lisa were originally what most siblings are in real life: little hellions who terrorize each other. Before Lisa went proto-SJW she caused as much trouble as Bart. Both Homer and Marge were tempted extramaritally but remembered their vows. The animated characters were more “real” than flesh and blood actors. Over thirty seasons that’s changed but imagine the original premise of the show transported to today. Heads would explode.

    The really great thing is they live in Springfield, which given that 31 states have a town or county named Springfield in them, could be anywhere. If the Simpsons lived in Springfield, OH, maybe Homer could swing that house on one blue collar salary.

    • Replies: @Altai
    There's also the way Ned Flanders' conscientiousness at Church was just another manifestation of his general character trait of niceness, conscientiousness and showing up Homer infront of his family in public by comparison. The joke being that Homer has no good reason to hate Ned personally, he hated him for making him look bad. Now he is a religious extremist who casually makes bigoted remarks and whose religiosity is his primary trait.

    The nature of religion is perhaps the area where day to day middle class life has changed the most. Remember the episode which revolved around Homer's deciding not to go to church one Sunday? (Where realistically the conscientious women of the family are concerned but Bart thinks it's funny?) 30 years ago the most subversive show on TV maintained the single-income family unit going to church every Sunday with episodes which took religious morality seriously. (Homer Steals and the one where he doesn't go to church) It's some cultural whiplash.

    The Simpsons still go to church but it feels weird that a middle class (Regardless of what their social-economic status should be) mainline protestant family outside the South still go every Sunday and that attendance is so high. Actually considering the rate at which they are running out of ideas, why hasn't that been a modern episode? I know there was one where Lovejoy was despondent over everyone joining a cult and a more recent one where he just got tired of Springfield and left with Homer and the men converting the church, into a place for debauchery and then suffered god's wrath, but they weren't dealing with a real world issue of declining religious attendance.
  20. @LondonBob
    https://youtu.be/axHoy0hnQy8

    Frank Grimes did wonder how Homer could afford his house.

    Frank Grimes, or Grimey as he liked to be called, is one of the best characters on the Simpsons. Just how he got injured in that silo explosion…

    He was right too. Homer was a total ass in that episode.

  21. @LondonBob
    https://youtu.be/axHoy0hnQy8

    Frank Grimes did wonder how Homer could afford his house.

    That scene is so well done. Absolutely perfect. “If you lived in any other country in the world you’d have starved to death years ago”

    Man I miss America with a sense of humor. Even Conan O’brien Who is a comic genius is totally cucked and his Twitter isn’t funny at all.

    Has Jim Downey cucked? I think he may be holding out. Snl will occasionally have a funny skit- I assume that’s him.

  22. Simpsons wiki fandom estimates that Homer makes between 24k and 60k per year, based on hints revealed during various episodes.

    https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Homer’s_jobs

  23. @Steve Sailer
    My friend from Rice U., Jeff Martin, wrote "Lisa's First Word." Well, he wasn't a Rice student, he was a high school student who lived in our dorm with his dad, Professor William Martin. Then he went to Harvard and became part of The Simpsons Harvard Mafia, as my neighbor, who was a screenwriter for old fashioed "Married with Children" called all bright Simpsons writers who came to town in 1990.,

    Wow, looking at his Wikipedia page, Jeff has written a ton of memorable episodes.

  24. S6E2, “Lisa’s Rival”:

    Homer: “And you didn’t think I’d make any money. I found a dollar while I was waiting for the bus!”
    Marge: “While you were out ‘earning’ that dollar, you lost 40 dollars by not going to work. The plant said if you don’t come tomorrow, don’t bother coming Monday.”
    Homer: “Woohoo! Four-day weekend!”

    So in 1994 dollars, Homer makes… 5 bucks an hour?

    Springfield is supposed to be modeled on Groening’s hometown of Portland, Ore., so perhaps that’s where you should be comparing home prices.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Springfield is supposed to be modeled on Groening’s hometown of Portland, Ore., so perhaps that’s where you should be comparing home prices.
     
    Could Ramona's Quimbys afford their post-war house on Klickitat Street today? Her father lost his job in one of those books.

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever. Ramona's creator Beverly Cleary once said she expected to live to 80. She's now 103 1/2.

    Well, at least she's got Ramona's royalties. Mrs Cleary's in a California retirement home today. I wonder who's "nursing" her now.
  25. @PiltdownMan

    Here’s a 2755 sf house on a 10,500 sf lot in Olympia.

    It looks pretty comparable to The Simpsons house, or maybe a little smaller, like the Las Vegas replica house.

    It recently sold for $500k.

    Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?
     

    According to Zillow, the monthly payments (including insurance and taxes) on a 500k home in Olympia, WA, financed with a 30 year fixed mortgage, would be about $2,300 at today's rates, and assuming a $100,000 down payment.

    The old credit rule of thumb mortgage bankers used to use back in the 1980s (now mostly abandoned) was that the monthly payments on a home should not exceed 28% of take home pay. By that long ago standard of prudent lending, Homer Simpson would have to take home $99,000 a year, after taxes.

    Salary.com says that nuclear engineers make about $85k a year, tops. I assume that that is an average of higher paid engineering roles and lower paid technician roles.

    So, no. The Simpsons can't afford their 500k home on a single income in 2019, assuming they've salted away $100k for the down payment. Unless Marge has money of her own, to put down as an additional down payment.

    I remembered that 28% figure before my eyes got to it, Piltdown. However, wasn’t it a percentage of gross pay? I was involved in that world, but I had to get a co-signer myself, which is a funny story, come to think of it.

    Thanks for the fun post, Steve. I’ve been spending time arguing with ignorant Commies under some other unz.com posts, and this is a more peaceful world here, by far!

    • Replies: @Prester John
    I'm pretty sure it was gross pay too. We were actively house hunting in the early 80s but were turned off by the double-digit mortgage rates, not to mention the fact that we never could scratch up enough dough to make a down payment.
  26. That replica house in Las Vegas is very plain, almost ugly.

  27. Frank Grime’s diatribe at the end of that clip is a fitting epitaph for myself and much of my birth cohort, the Baby Boomers, and what we’ve done to destroy the magnificent patrimony we inherited from our predecessors.

  28. The Simpsons’ street name may be a reference to Olympia, but it is generally hinted that the town of Springfield is supposed to be in or near Ohio. It would probably be better to search similarly-sized Anytown, USAs in Ohio for a price comparison.

  29. I can do you one better, in fact, in the real world:

    About two years ago, Lucille Ball’s first house in West Hollywood went on the market for $1.75 million. 1874 sf.

    At first I guessed that that $1.75m price is at least somewhat inflated for the fact that Lucille Ball once lived there, but I then looked up for sale listings on Zillow for West Hollywood, and that is very much a typical price for that square footage.

    What does this mean?

    In 1933, a 22-year old rookie B-picture contract player could afford that house in that place. Could a 22-year old rookie B-picture contract player afford that house in that place today?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    About two years ago, Lucille Ball’s first house in West Hollywood went on the market for $1.75 million. 1874 sf.
     
    Lucille Ball's first house anywhere:


    Back then it was 60 Stewart Avenue but today you’ll find the very first home of Lucille Ball at 69 Stewart Avenue in Jamestown.

    Assessed at $67,000 since 2007. Before that, at $15,290. Why the quantum leap?

    http://app.co.chautauqua.ny.us/cctaxonline/#view/060800-387.09-4-62/history

    Her second:

    Only a few minutes west of Jamestown’s center, you’ll find the home where Lucy spent most of her childhood at 59 Lucy Lane in Celeron. The home was most recently purchased via an eBay auction in 2002 for $98,500.

    Pictures of both houses here:

    https://exploringupstate.com/lucille-ball-tour-jamestown/
  30. In the suburbs of Konstanz, such a house in a decent (not first-rate) neighborhood would be 2 million Euros+.

    This one has three bedrooms and 360 sq m property and is offered for 1.3 million:

    https://www.engelvoelkers.com/de-de/exposes/traumhaus-sucht-familie-4118262.1333600_exp/

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    So, just step across the border ... France, not Suisse.

    https://proprietes.lefigaro.fr/annonces/chateau-haute+marne-champagne+ardenne-france/21280435/

  31. If only Homer had come forward publicly in 2016 and claimed Trump had sexually harassed him, Hillary backers would have paid out his mortgage.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5226707/Clinton-backer-paid-500k-fund-Trump-accusers.html

    But don’t despair Simpsons, there’s still the Supreme Court. If Marge is keen to move up the property ladder, Christine Blasey Ford raised a cool $1 million or so on Go Fund Me.

    https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion/finally-know-christine-blasey-fords-gofundme-cash-went

  32. OT but I think you’ll like it.

    Check out this real life Ali G at the European Parliament (starts at 7:10, but watch the preceding minute for some context):

    My nominee for most 2019 video clip evah.

    • Replies: @Altai
    You'd think the fact that the likes of Farage incidentally becoming the most strident voice for the unheard interests and voice of the English working class would cause some political soul-searching but no, they just pretend that he is 'running a playbook' and 'lying'. Sad.
  33. @Steve Sailer
    Schaumburg is a pretty prosperous suburb of Chicago, with lots of newer companies located there. They were promoting Schaumburg as the Silicon Prairie when I lived in Chicago. The name is considered amusing, though, because it's Germanic, rather like Krusty the Klown's rule that K is a funny letter.

    The Sunshine Boys, a play written in 1972 and filmed in 1975, did it first.

  34. Could a 22-year old rookie B-picture contract player afford that house in that place today?

    Nope, and that is why we clearly need more immigration. More! More!

  35. This is one of those Sailer posts that has me–yet again–pining for just one nationalist politician of any verbal capability.

    Housing is one of those areas–traffic congestion is another–that just screams “immigration moratorium.”
    Easily graspable by the average person, with no deep thought required to understand it.

    Basically during my lifetime–and mostly in the last 30 years–we have moved from Ben Franklin’s nation of cheap land and dear labor to … Asia.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Here's a snippet from Franklin's "Observations":

    6. Land being thus plenty in America, and so cheap as that a labouring Man, that understands Husbandry, can in a short Time save Money enough to purchase a Piece of new Land sufficient for a Plantation, whereon he may subsist a Family; such are not afraid to marry; for if they even look far enough forward to consider how their Children when grown up are to be provided for, they see that more Land is to be had at Rates equally easy, all Circumstances considered.
    7. Hence Marriages in America are more general, and more generally early, than in Europe. And if it is reckoned there, that there is but one Marriage per Annum among 100 Persons, perhaps we may here reckon two; and if in Europe they have but 4 Births to a Marriage (many of their Marriages being late) we may here reckon 8, of which if one half grow up, and our Marriages are made, reckoning one with another 20 Years of Age, our People must at least be doubled every 20 Years.
    8. But notwithstanding this Increase, so vast is the Territory of North-America, that it will require many Ages to settle fully; and till it is fully settled, Labour will never be cheap here, where no Man continues long a Labourer for others, but gets a Plantation of his own, no Man continues long a Journeyman to a Trade, but goes among those new Settlers, and sets up for himself, etc. Hence Labour is no cheaper now, in Pennsylvania, than it was 30 Years ago, tho' so many Thousand labouring People have been imported.
     
    Yep ... the "many ages" are now up. We are now fully--overly fully--settled.

    And correspondingly--as Franklin would predict--the land prices are way up and wages, marriages and, most sadly, children way down.
    , @AnotherDad
    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    "The Democrats hate your kids."
  36. @LondonBob
    https://youtu.be/axHoy0hnQy8

    Frank Grimes did wonder how Homer could afford his house.

    Well, maybe Homer could get a lot of overtime at the plant? Not that lots of overtime and nuclear power plant technician are phrases you want to go together.

    SNPP and it’s workers weren’t congruent. Groenig wrote them as oafish blue collar factory workers. It lead to some funny episodes, but in reality they would have never gotten past the front door of a nuclear plant. Maybe having them working at nuclear production facility like Oak Ridge.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Oak Ridge is interesting.

    I applied for a job there about 35 or so years ago. The officer in charge of hiring said that if I were accepted for the position, I would be commissioned as a 2nd Lt. in the Army. I withdrew my application after I got a civilian job elsewhere. If I had gotten the job, I would’ve been underpaid for 20 years and then about 15 years ago I would have retired with half pay and taken a better paying civilian position.

    Of course there are mostly civilian positions there. I knew one guy who was overworked in my old company. Even though he was a foreign national, he got a job there, and he brought one or two of his former co-workers over a bit later.
  37. @AnotherDad
    This is one of those Sailer posts that has me--yet again--pining for just one nationalist politician of any verbal capability.

    Housing is one of those areas--traffic congestion is another--that just screams "immigration moratorium."
    Easily graspable by the average person, with no deep thought required to understand it.

    Basically during my lifetime--and mostly in the last 30 years--we have moved from Ben Franklin's nation of cheap land and dear labor to ... Asia.

    Here’s a snippet from Franklin’s “Observations”:

    6. Land being thus plenty in America, and so cheap as that a labouring Man, that understands Husbandry, can in a short Time save Money enough to purchase a Piece of new Land sufficient for a Plantation, whereon he may subsist a Family; such are not afraid to marry; for if they even look far enough forward to consider how their Children when grown up are to be provided for, they see that more Land is to be had at Rates equally easy, all Circumstances considered.
    7. Hence Marriages in America are more general, and more generally early, than in Europe. And if it is reckoned there, that there is but one Marriage per Annum among 100 Persons, perhaps we may here reckon two; and if in Europe they have but 4 Births to a Marriage (many of their Marriages being late) we may here reckon 8, of which if one half grow up, and our Marriages are made, reckoning one with another 20 Years of Age, our People must at least be doubled every 20 Years.
    8. But notwithstanding this Increase, so vast is the Territory of North-America, that it will require many Ages to settle fully; and till it is fully settled, Labour will never be cheap here, where no Man continues long a Labourer for others, but gets a Plantation of his own, no Man continues long a Journeyman to a Trade, but goes among those new Settlers, and sets up for himself, etc. Hence Labour is no cheaper now, in Pennsylvania, than it was 30 Years ago, tho’ so many Thousand labouring People have been imported.

    Yep … the “many ages” are now up. We are now fully–overly fully–settled.

    And correspondingly–as Franklin would predict–the land prices are way up and wages, marriages and, most sadly, children way down.

  38. @AnotherDad
    This is one of those Sailer posts that has me--yet again--pining for just one nationalist politician of any verbal capability.

    Housing is one of those areas--traffic congestion is another--that just screams "immigration moratorium."
    Easily graspable by the average person, with no deep thought required to understand it.

    Basically during my lifetime--and mostly in the last 30 years--we have moved from Ben Franklin's nation of cheap land and dear labor to ... Asia.

    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    “The Democrats hate your kids.”

    • Replies: @istevefan

    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    “The Democrats hate your kids.”

     

    Actually the democrats hate Whites, and that is what needs to be said. We can still expect 40 to 44% of Whites to vote for the democrats in 2020. Is there any other group in the world who votes in such large proportions for a party that openly despises them?
    , @Paleo Liberal
    This implies Republican = nationalist and Democrat = globalist.

    Which explains why the Bush family, Paul Ryan and Mitch the Turtle are all so beloved by nationalists, while Sanders is so hated by nationalists.

    Let’s face it. Sanders was more popular in the 2016 Democratic primaries than Trump was in the 2016 GOP primaries. The difference was, Sanders had one well funded globalist opponent the Oligarchs could spend the resources on, while Trump faced an entire bus load of globalists. So the Republican globalists were split.
    , @David
    Trump got pretty close to that last night. From about ten minutes into his speech:

    [Democrats] want to install far left judges to shred our constitution. It’s not happening. They want to tear down symbols of faith and drive Christians and religious believers from the public square. They want to silence your voices on social media and they want the government to censor, muzzle, and shut down conservative voices. You know that.

    If they didn’t hate our country, they wouldn’t be doing this to our country. They wouldn’t be doing it because they know better. They know better.
     
    , @nebulafox
    When right-wing politicians stop taking orders from people who profit most from social atomization and turning the world into a giant box store.

    Don't kid yourself, for any real nationalist revival, the beloved Job Creators will have to be politically castrated. They are as much of a problem as the woke crowd. The BoomerCon GOP in its current incarnation will never be capable of that, so why show them any loyalty?

  39. House prices in the US vary tremendously based on state and on location within states. To some extent this might be related to favored local building materials and codes and the cost of land.

    Where I live in North Florida, my friends bought a new-build fairly nice three bedroom single-story home–nothing grand– with a built in double garage and moderate sized yard in a pleasant street of newish homes for $176,000. There was no down payment required. “Gated” community with fancy gateposts, but no actual gates.

    Current asking price for similar new-build 4-bedroom, 2-bathroom single story home is $240.000, and for a 4-bedroom, 3-bathroom two story home (2160 sq. feet) is $260,000. Prices have gone up a bit over the last year.

    We don’t have basements in Florida.

    The city (pop. 9000) is, to my mind, one of the best places to live in Florida. Actually I do not know of a better one.

    Fairly low crime, and what crime exists is trivial, good schools (85% white students), nice parks, state and national parks close by, adequate shopping, but no fancy stores, no traffic worth mentioning except in certain spots where you might have to wait for a convoy of 20 school buses to pass by at certain hours.

    There is a major city 30 minutes drive away. Airport 45 minutes. Employment possibilities are at various government installations, teaching school, Walmart distribution center and 2 other supermarket distribution centers, hospital, nursing homes, healthcare, etc.

  40. How Much Would the Simpsons’ House Cost in 2019?

    How much would the Simpsons’ house cost in 2019 if the federal funds rate were at the normal level of six percent?

    How much would the Simpsons’ house cost if the 60 million or more foreigners and their spawn dragged into the USA by the nation-killing 1965 Immigration Act were not in the USA?

    How much more environmentally-friendly would be the policy of the pro-White government be if the US federal government wasn’t run by the nation-wrecking scum in the JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire?

  41. @WowJustWow
    S6E2, “Lisa’s Rival”:

    Homer: “And you didn’t think I’d make any money. I found a dollar while I was waiting for the bus!”
    Marge: “While you were out ‘earning’ that dollar, you lost 40 dollars by not going to work. The plant said if you don’t come tomorrow, don’t bother coming Monday.”
    Homer: “Woohoo! Four-day weekend!”

    So in 1994 dollars, Homer makes... 5 bucks an hour?

    Springfield is supposed to be modeled on Groening’s hometown of Portland, Ore., so perhaps that’s where you should be comparing home prices.

    Springfield is supposed to be modeled on Groening’s hometown of Portland, Ore., so perhaps that’s where you should be comparing home prices.

    Could Ramona’s Quimbys afford their post-war house on Klickitat Street today? Her father lost his job in one of those books.

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever. Ramona’s creator Beverly Cleary once said she expected to live to 80. She’s now 103 1/2.

    Well, at least she’s got Ramona’s royalties. Mrs Cleary’s in a California retirement home today. I wonder who’s “nursing” her now.

    • Replies: @Rupert
    I still remember enjoying those Ramona books when I was little, and I wish the author well. I can't help wondering, though, What is the point of continuing to live at 103? Seriously, isn't there an optimum cut-off point maybe in your early 90s that would avoid the inevitably vast/painful diminishing returns? Know when to die, as Sam Kinison said.

    Though I suppose that's always something easy for someone else who's younger to say, but when it's you, maybe you always want to hang on on a little bit longer. But by the time you're 100, what are you hoping or waiting for? Let it be. You had a good long life, give up the ghost and find out what's next.

    , @WowJustWow
    Any relation to Springfield’s Mayor Quimby?
    , @James Forrrestal

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever.
     
    Wut?

    US Life Expectancy Dropped Again, Fortune (2018 -- 2017 data)

    CDC data


    Age-adjusted death rates increased in 2017 from 2016 for non-Hispanic white males (0.6%) and non-Hispanic white females (0.9%). The age-adjusted death rate decreased for non-Hispanic black females (0.8%). Rates did not change significantly for non-Hispanic black males, Hispanic males, and Hispanic females from 2016 to 2017.
     
    2014 data

    Increases in death rates due to unintentional injuries, suicide, and chronic liver disease were large enough to increase all-cause non-Hispanic white death rates for ages 25–34, 35–44, and 45–54.
     
    And of course, death rates for middle-aged whites have been increasing since 1998 or so -- that's largely what's driving the overall decrease in life expectancy:

    While midlife mortality continued to fall in other rich countries, and in other racial and ethnic groups in the US, white non-Hispanic mortality rates for those aged 45-54 increased from 1998 through 2013. Mortality declines from the two biggest killers in middle age — cancer and heart disease — were offset by marked increases in drug overdoses, suicides, and alcohol-related liver mortality in this period. By 2014, rising mortality in midlife, led by these “deaths of despair,” was large enough to offset mortality gains for children and the elderly (Kochanek, Arias, and Bastian 2016), leading to a decline in life expectancy at birth among white non-Hispanics between 2013 and 2014 (Arias 2016), and a decline in overall life expectancy in the US between 2014 and 2015 (Xu et al 2016).
     
    Graph of all-cause mortality, ages 45–54 for U.S. white non-Hispanics (USW), US Hispanics (USH), and six comparison countries from late 1980s-2013
  42. My wife’s grandmother just sold her home in Cypress, CA. ~2000 square feet, 1970s, needs quite a few repairs.

    Sold for $780k after just 4 days on the market. Chinese investors, man!

  43. @Steve Sailer
    I had an in-law who worked for Motorola in its cell phone division. In the 1980s and early 1990s, Motorola was going gangbusters in cell phones. Then, however, I started to hear the N Word: Nokia.

    I visited Motorola in Schaumburg back in the aughts. The town looked like one of those pleasant leafy Ozzie and Harriet suburbs that we SoCalians are often trying to emulate in our coastal desert.
    Motorola was in the process of withdrawing from the tricky, low margin business of actually manufacturing stuff and having a yard sale of their assets. They had a division that was competing with the company I worked for and Motorola was going to just shut it down and boot everyone there to the curb. If they had, my company would have virtually set up folding tables and chairs outside the facilities they were closing and hired all the talent as they were walking out the door with their cardboard boxes of personal stuff.
    Unfortunately, one of the managers at the doomed division had a little more on the ball and pointed out to the Motorola executives that our company could be induced to buy the division instead of waiting to scarf up all the talent for free. It worked out for us anyway, we had pay up but took over our only real competitor for a huge customer. The ex Motorolans for their part didn’t have to bother boxing up their stuff and just kept working where they were with a new company name on their badges.

  44. Simpsons fans have spent many years debating Springfield’s location. If there’s any consensus, it’s that the writers have thrown in so many contradictory clues that the task is pointless.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    In one of the episodes Kent Brockman, the news reader, makes a reference to "the small, central Kentucky town of Springfield" but my sense is they move it around partly to tweak the viewers. Springfield, KY is pretty much right in the middle (east/west wise).
  45. A nuclear safety inspector can make 70k, a nuclear engineer 100k, and a senior nuclear engineer 150k. So it depends on his seniority and whether he ever got promoted. It fails the 3x affordability rule, but Homer could have saved up money for a larger down payment. It’s not totally unreasonable, but part of the joke is that Homer has a job he is totally unqualified for. If I recall correctly, Lenny and Carl both have Master’s degrees in Physics, while Homer is Homer.

  46. He must get residues from his singing career with the Be Sharps.

  47. @AnotherDad
    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    "The Democrats hate your kids."

    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    “The Democrats hate your kids.”

    Actually the democrats hate Whites, and that is what needs to be said. We can still expect 40 to 44% of Whites to vote for the democrats in 2020. Is there any other group in the world who votes in such large proportions for a party that openly despises them?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrats because they occasionally throw working Americans a bone.

    I look at what has helped or hurt my family.

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

    The EIC helped the few years I was really poor. That was Clinton’s doing. (Actually, my late father was one is the many people Clinton for the idea from. Thanks, Dad). Also, when I was poor, I got to use NYC and NY state medical help to keep my medical costs down. Mostly Democrats on that one, although liberal Republicans helped too.

    The child tax credit was a Republican idea. Helped my family.

    Tax cuts for the rich, which drove up the debt, came from the Republicans, and my children’s grandchildren will still be paying for those.

    My children’s grandchildren will also be paying for all the wars Bush Jr got us into.

    One of my kids is attending college on a scholarship the Democrats in Wisconsin came up with.

    My wife is a state worker, and state workers were screwed over by Republicans.

    The Republicans hurt the Wisconsin schools, which hurt my kids.

    Trump has done a little bit to lessen H1-B visa fraud. I am a programmer now. The H-1B visa scam destroys the careers of Americans. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn’t actually reduced the number of H1-B visa recipients.

    So on the balance, the Democrats have been better for me and for my family than the Republicans. Both have done good and bad things. But if I chose a particular party that represented my family interests, it would be the Democrats most of the time.
    , @Kratoklastes
    Very nearly everyone who votes, votes for someone who despises them. So the question reduces a bit - it's a question of whether it's better to be conscious of being a dupe for the parasite classes, or to be a double-dupe and think that one or other side of the grift has any interest in advancing the interest of the schlubs.

    Voting is like choosing which flavour of Abrahamic religion to adopt: anyone who actively chooses any, shows themselves to be gullible, and is being grifted by one of the world's two oldest scams... religion and politics.
  48. … in a school district that appears to have 85% white students — sell for in 2019?

    In 2019, can you even find a school district that is 85% White students which is not in a rural area?

    • Replies: @Richard P

    In 2019, can you even find a school district that is 85% White students which is not in a rural area?
     
    Yes, of course you can. There are several school districts throughout Pennsylvania that are 85 percent or greater White. My high school had a graduating class of nearly 500 and only about 10 students were a Minority.

    Nonetheless, I don't know why anyone would subject their child to the public school system -- especially in today's volitile climate of rabid cultural Marxist ideologies being forced upon our children. Public schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers.
     
     

  49. @Steve Sailer
    I had an in-law who worked for Motorola in its cell phone division. In the 1980s and early 1990s, Motorola was going gangbusters in cell phones. Then, however, I started to hear the N Word: Nokia.

    I remember that. Everyone in the trades use to have push-to-talk cellphone/walkie-talkies.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    I remember that. Everyone in the trades use to have push-to-talk cellphone/walkie-talkies

    I think those were Nextel.
  50. @AnotherDad
    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    "The Democrats hate your kids."

    This implies Republican = nationalist and Democrat = globalist.

    Which explains why the Bush family, Paul Ryan and Mitch the Turtle are all so beloved by nationalists, while Sanders is so hated by nationalists.

    Let’s face it. Sanders was more popular in the 2016 Democratic primaries than Trump was in the 2016 GOP primaries. The difference was, Sanders had one well funded globalist opponent the Oligarchs could spend the resources on, while Trump faced an entire bus load of globalists. So the Republican globalists were split.

  51. @istevefan

    ... in a school district that appears to have 85% white students — sell for in 2019?
     
    In 2019, can you even find a school district that is 85% White students which is not in a rural area?

    In 2019, can you even find a school district that is 85% White students which is not in a rural area?

    Yes, of course you can. There are several school districts throughout Pennsylvania that are 85 percent or greater White. My high school had a graduating class of nearly 500 and only about 10 students were a Minority.

    Nonetheless, I don’t know why anyone would subject their child to the public school system — especially in today’s volitile climate of rabid cultural Marxist ideologies being forced upon our children. Public schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers.

  52. @AnotherDad
    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    "The Democrats hate your kids."

    Trump got pretty close to that last night. From about ten minutes into his speech:

    [Democrats] want to install far left judges to shred our constitution. It’s not happening. They want to tear down symbols of faith and drive Christians and religious believers from the public square. They want to silence your voices on social media and they want the government to censor, muzzle, and shut down conservative voices. You know that.

    If they didn’t hate our country, they wouldn’t be doing this to our country. They wouldn’t be doing it because they know better. They know better.

  53. anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:

    Assuming a 20% down payment, interest rate in 1997 = 7.82, Homer’s monthly payment on $120K home = $700
    Median income in 1997 = $37,005 (LOWER than 1989, $37,303) Nuclear tech. salary = 28% above median, but Homer has less experience, so peg Homer’s annual salary in 1997 = $40,000.
    The Simpsons’ Mortgage is 21% of annual salary.

    2019 interest rate = 3.82, monthly payment on 80% of $500k purchase price = $1875
    Median income in 2019 = $46,800. In 2019, average nuclear technician salary in Tacoma, WA = $60,274, about 28% above median.
    The Simpsons’ Mortgage is 37% of annual salary.

    The critical, crucial, must-contemplate by all means issue is whether the kitchen has ‘frig bigger than the bathroom, has granite counters and stainless steel, high-bend-quotient w/ built-in obsolescence Chinese import appliances.

    oh
    And the property taxes and homeowners insurance are most likely a heck of a lot higher in 2019 than they were in 1997.
    brushfires
    hurricanes
    fraud
    school taxes – what, your school does not have a natatorium?

  54. @Twinkie

    Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?
     
    Isn't he a nuclear engineer? And Margie seems to come from a posher background than Homer, so perhaps she inherited some money.

    If so, 500K is doable.

    I’m not terribly familiar with the show, but my impression is that he’s more of a blue collar factory worker type than an actual engineer. I think the creators just plopped him as a safety technician there for the comic potential. The potential effect of workplace incompetence and laziness is exponentially scaled (with n >>> 1!) when you are working in a nuclear plant…

  55. @Lugash

    Well, maybe Homer could get a lot of overtime at the plant? Not that lots of overtime and nuclear power plant technician are phrases you want to go together.
     
    SNPP and it's workers weren't congruent. Groenig wrote them as oafish blue collar factory workers. It lead to some funny episodes, but in reality they would have never gotten past the front door of a nuclear plant. Maybe having them working at nuclear production facility like Oak Ridge.

    Oak Ridge is interesting.

    I applied for a job there about 35 or so years ago. The officer in charge of hiring said that if I were accepted for the position, I would be commissioned as a 2nd Lt. in the Army. I withdrew my application after I got a civilian job elsewhere. If I had gotten the job, I would’ve been underpaid for 20 years and then about 15 years ago I would have retired with half pay and taken a better paying civilian position.

    Of course there are mostly civilian positions there. I knew one guy who was overworked in my old company. Even though he was a foreign national, he got a job there, and he brought one or two of his former co-workers over a bit later.

  56. @Prosa123
    Simpsons fans have spent many years debating Springfield's location. If there's any consensus, it's that the writers have thrown in so many contradictory clues that the task is pointless.

    In one of the episodes Kent Brockman, the news reader, makes a reference to “the small, central Kentucky town of Springfield” but my sense is they move it around partly to tweak the viewers. Springfield, KY is pretty much right in the middle (east/west wise).

    • Replies: @prosa123
    Another geographical joke: in one of the earlier seasons Moe says that he moved to Springfield because its zip code is 58008, and as at least two generations of middle school boys know 58008 on a calculator turned upside down is "BOOBS."
    58008 is a real zip code, assigned to Barney, North Dakota. While that very small community doesn't fit Springfield's description at all, Barney is of course the name of one of Moe's regular customers.
    , @BenKenobi

    Kent Brockman, the news reader, makes a reference to “the small, central Kentucky town of Springfield
     
    That was actually the unidentified narrator of the non-canonical Behind The Music parody episode.
  57. @AnotherDad
    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    "The Democrats hate your kids."

    When right-wing politicians stop taking orders from people who profit most from social atomization and turning the world into a giant box store.

    Don’t kid yourself, for any real nationalist revival, the beloved Job Creators will have to be politically castrated. They are as much of a problem as the woke crowd. The BoomerCon GOP in its current incarnation will never be capable of that, so why show them any loyalty?

    • Replies: @John Redcorn
    couldn't agree more, except that the "Job Creators" are far worse than the woke crowd. They have resources and can easily coopt "wokeness" as part of their overall PR/marketing strategy.

    But the "Job Creators" have clearly coopted Trump since he is clearly gearing up to run against Democrat's "socialism".
  58. If you want an international price comparison, if the Simpsons emigrate to Russia, they could buy a completely newly constructed (although very small) apartment for $31,000.

    For example, for $31,000, they could buy 26 m² apartment, in a new district built personally by Viktor Vekselberg (something similar to a regional equivalent of Montgomery Burns).

    The local nuclear power station would be convenient for Homer to commute to from that side of the city.

    Unfortunately, such architecture might inspire a nihilistic crisis for Lisa (recently a girl her age mysteriously killed herself by jumping from a balcony of one of these new buildings in this district, which was blamed on manga comics she was reading before).

  59. @istevefan

    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    “The Democrats hate your kids.”

     

    Actually the democrats hate Whites, and that is what needs to be said. We can still expect 40 to 44% of Whites to vote for the democrats in 2020. Is there any other group in the world who votes in such large proportions for a party that openly despises them?

    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrats because they occasionally throw working Americans a bone.

    I look at what has helped or hurt my family.

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

    The EIC helped the few years I was really poor. That was Clinton’s doing. (Actually, my late father was one is the many people Clinton for the idea from. Thanks, Dad). Also, when I was poor, I got to use NYC and NY state medical help to keep my medical costs down. Mostly Democrats on that one, although liberal Republicans helped too.

    The child tax credit was a Republican idea. Helped my family.

    Tax cuts for the rich, which drove up the debt, came from the Republicans, and my children’s grandchildren will still be paying for those.

    My children’s grandchildren will also be paying for all the wars Bush Jr got us into.

    One of my kids is attending college on a scholarship the Democrats in Wisconsin came up with.

    My wife is a state worker, and state workers were screwed over by Republicans.

    The Republicans hurt the Wisconsin schools, which hurt my kids.

    Trump has done a little bit to lessen H1-B visa fraud. I am a programmer now. The H-1B visa scam destroys the careers of Americans. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn’t actually reduced the number of H1-B visa recipients.

    So on the balance, the Democrats have been better for me and for my family than the Republicans. Both have done good and bad things. But if I chose a particular party that represented my family interests, it would be the Democrats most of the time.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Steve2
    I trained my Indian offshore replacements at a tier-1 automotive supplier. I then got a contract job at a big automotive OEM, fixed their shit code that didn’t work that no one would use and then trained my Chinese H1-B replacement. At my last job, there were no native born left in my rather large group after I was replaced. We the people of the US have already lost. We have been replaced, intentionally, by people motivated by a false hope of short term monetary gain, as well as spite and hatred.
    , @Charles Pewitt

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

     

    Republican Party CHEAP LABOR FACTION politican whore Mike Lee wants to flood the USA with Asian Indians to undercut the wages of US workers.

    The Republican Party is controlled by evil money-grubbing donors who want to fire American citizens and replace them with foreigners from India, China, Mexico and other nations.

    Trump wants to pour more millions of Chinese students into USA and give them green cards. Trump wants more guest worker foreigners and visa worker foreigners and every other kind of foreigner he can drag into the USA.

    Trump wants to flood the USA with mass legal immigration "in the largest numbers ever."

    https://twitter.com/NeilMunroDC/status/1185263474068332544?s=20
    , @Daniel H
    Most of those Tienaneman square “refugees” would have flattened that lone protestor standing in front of the tank in a heartbeat. They would have floored the accelerator on tha tank, and squish. The dude was getting in the way of business and making China look bad.
    , @istevefan

    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrat
     
    I didn't write 'screw over'. I wrote openly hate. There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites. Even Steve has on several occasions described their strategy as stirring up White racial animus to keep the coalition of the fringes together. Or to use his term the KKKrazy glue.

    As for democrats being for workers, that might be true if you consider workers that aren't American. These are not Harry Truman democrats any more.
  60. Neighborhoods like this do exist. They pop up out of nowhere when a contractor buys a farm and builds and sells each house one by one. Where I live the houses would be 350k+, and the quality of the build would be quite low. I know a guy who got one and he says his living room is like a trampoline when the kids run through it. In the more elite places nearby such a house would be 700k at least, but probably closer to 1 million without the yard. With the yard…I can’t comprehend it. I don’t know anybody in their 20s buying a house.

  61. @Twinkie

    Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?
     
    Isn't he a nuclear engineer? And Margie seems to come from a posher background than Homer, so perhaps she inherited some money.

    If so, 500K is doable.

    Not an engineer. He’s some kind of dashboard monitor. By now, his job’s being done remotely by someone in a Bombay slum illegally tapping the internet cable of his neighbor, who’s interpreting your X-rays.

    • LOL: William Badwhite
  62. @George
    Where would the Simpson house be located? Nuclear power plants are usually distant from expensive cities.

    These 15 U.S. Cities Are Most at Risk of Experiencing a Nuclear Meltdown
    https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/u-s-cities-risk-nuclear-meltdown.html/

    Maybe here?

    Quad Cities Nuclear Generating Station
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_Cities_Nuclear_Generating_Station

    The area they live in seems virtually all white. How come Lisa doesn't have high performing Asian friends to remind her that they have to study more than she to get into Harvard? She would probably be in a class tracked as smart or 'gifted'. It would actually be funny if they cut to her gifted and talented classroom filled with identical Chinese Americans a couple of South Asians (Apu's kids), an African Igbo-American and Lisa. Maybe another white kid of dubious Hispanic ancestry that insists he is Mexican. After school, the Asian kids go, fruitlessly, to the local Kumon math center, while Lisa plays soccer (literally playing ball), and Bart plays video games and answers phone calls from military recruiters. The only Asian kid with a real chance at Harvard is a Korean American girl who plays golf all day while her tiger Mommy quizzes her on math and claps when she sinks a putt.

    Simpson is some sort of nuclear technician, but probably not degreed but maybe credentialed. So probably well paid for the area.

    I think in one episode they are living with grandpa and they send Grand Pa to an old folks home, so the house might be Grand pa Simpson's originally, likely paid off. The house seems to have an addition, the garage, which seems like not as good, so cheaper, as one building. They lived in it in the 80s too.

    Where would the Simpson house be located? Nuclear power plants are usually distant from expensive cities.

    The ancient Davis-Besse plant is 30 miles from Toledo. The giant mosque in Perrysburg, America’s largest from 1983-2005, is only 12 miles away. Which is a greater threat?

    Note that the mosque was mortgaged and paid off from Detroit liquor sale profits, so it’s rather louche by Islamic standards. It even had a female president, possibly the first in Islam.

    A mosque in America’s heartland

    • Replies: @Bubba
    That’s a great question and thanks for all that interesting info! It reminds me of the time I passed a busy mosque in Richland, Washington and thought to myself that it was just a few miles from the Hanford Site (part of the Manhattan Project) that built the atomic bomb which destroyed Nagasaki. Today there’s much more politically correct research being done at the nearby Northwest Pacific National Laboratory and I’m sure that is where these imported Muslim scientists work.

    BTW, any American born, blue collar worker such as a welder, millwright, pipefitter, electrician, etc... who happens to get a DUI will be banned from working in a nuclear power plant for 5 years being deemed as a security risk. And every welder I’ve known for the past 40 years winds down after work with beer or whiskey (sometimes both) so a DUI is fairly common for them. These nuke plant outages pay high dollar union wages and it’s a shame that talented Americans with good hands-on construction skills cannot apply for the silly reason of having a DUI. However, Achmed the imported wannabe terrorist can easily get a job in a nuke plant as a buyer, project engineer or work in I.T. since he is a credentialed (yet incompetent) teetotaler with a clean driving record.
  63. @William Badwhite
    In one of the episodes Kent Brockman, the news reader, makes a reference to "the small, central Kentucky town of Springfield" but my sense is they move it around partly to tweak the viewers. Springfield, KY is pretty much right in the middle (east/west wise).

    Another geographical joke: in one of the earlier seasons Moe says that he moved to Springfield because its zip code is 58008, and as at least two generations of middle school boys know 58008 on a calculator turned upside down is “BOOBS.”
    58008 is a real zip code, assigned to Barney, North Dakota. While that very small community doesn’t fit Springfield’s description at all, Barney is of course the name of one of Moe’s regular customers.

  64. @t
    According to Chicago Mag. the average single family home in Schaumburg cost 320K in 2018 http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-July-2019/Where-To-Buy-Now/#flats

    And the property taxes are probably $8,000 a year.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    $14,000 in NJ
  65. Like I’ve probably said before, the implied message of the Simpson’s brain trust is that white people are unjustifiably wealthy buffoons who don’t deserve to live any better than Guatemalans.

    • Agree: jim jones
  66. Anonymous[945] • Disclaimer says:

    Notice the difference in maintenance between the Simpsons’ house and that house in Olympia: the one in Olympia is immaculate and the Simpsons’ house has patches in the chimney brickwork and wall brickwork, plus an oil stain in the driveway.

    I think a better question than “could they afford it in 2019” is “does it even exist in 2019”. Is there any place where a blue-collar white family can live so… comfortably today?

  67. @mmack
    Steve,

    The only way I can one up you is that Dan Castellaneta, the voice of Homer Jay Simpson, is an alum of my Alma Mater, Northern Illinois U. Of course I didn't attend when Dan did, so it's a half step one up.

    The original set of writers for The Simpsons is what made the show great. Can you imagine a show in 2019 where a blue collar white man gets his girlfriend pregnant and marries her? Homer wasn't a Doctor, Lawyer, executive, or any highly paid professional. He and Marge are barely holding their heads above water, and Homer is dangerously overextended credit wise. Bart and Lisa were originally what most siblings are in real life: little hellions who terrorize each other. Before Lisa went proto-SJW she caused as much trouble as Bart. Both Homer and Marge were tempted extramaritally but remembered their vows. The animated characters were more "real" than flesh and blood actors. Over thirty seasons that's changed but imagine the original premise of the show transported to today. Heads would explode.

    The really great thing is they live in Springfield, which given that 31 states have a town or county named Springfield in them, could be anywhere. If the Simpsons lived in Springfield, OH, maybe Homer could swing that house on one blue collar salary.

    There’s also the way Ned Flanders’ conscientiousness at Church was just another manifestation of his general character trait of niceness, conscientiousness and showing up Homer infront of his family in public by comparison. The joke being that Homer has no good reason to hate Ned personally, he hated him for making him look bad. Now he is a religious extremist who casually makes bigoted remarks and whose religiosity is his primary trait.

    The nature of religion is perhaps the area where day to day middle class life has changed the most. Remember the episode which revolved around Homer’s deciding not to go to church one Sunday? (Where realistically the conscientious women of the family are concerned but Bart thinks it’s funny?) 30 years ago the most subversive show on TV maintained the single-income family unit going to church every Sunday with episodes which took religious morality seriously. (Homer Steals and the one where he doesn’t go to church) It’s some cultural whiplash.

    The Simpsons still go to church but it feels weird that a middle class (Regardless of what their social-economic status should be) mainline protestant family outside the South still go every Sunday and that attendance is so high. Actually considering the rate at which they are running out of ideas, why hasn’t that been a modern episode? I know there was one where Lovejoy was despondent over everyone joining a cult and a more recent one where he just got tired of Springfield and left with Homer and the men converting the church, into a place for debauchery and then suffered god’s wrath, but they weren’t dealing with a real world issue of declining religious attendance.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    The changing of Ned Flanders was so obvious and adopted by so many other shows that the term Flanderization was invented for the concept.
  68. @PiltdownMan

    Here’s a 2755 sf house on a 10,500 sf lot in Olympia.

    It looks pretty comparable to The Simpsons house, or maybe a little smaller, like the Las Vegas replica house.

    It recently sold for $500k.

    Could Homer Simpson afford this house in 2019 on one salary?
     

    According to Zillow, the monthly payments (including insurance and taxes) on a 500k home in Olympia, WA, financed with a 30 year fixed mortgage, would be about $2,300 at today's rates, and assuming a $100,000 down payment.

    The old credit rule of thumb mortgage bankers used to use back in the 1980s (now mostly abandoned) was that the monthly payments on a home should not exceed 28% of take home pay. By that long ago standard of prudent lending, Homer Simpson would have to take home $99,000 a year, after taxes.

    Salary.com says that nuclear engineers make about $85k a year, tops. I assume that that is an average of higher paid engineering roles and lower paid technician roles.

    So, no. The Simpsons can't afford their 500k home on a single income in 2019, assuming they've salted away $100k for the down payment. Unless Marge has money of her own, to put down as an additional down payment.

    The old credit rule of thumb mortgage bankers used to use back in the 1980s (now mostly abandoned) was that the monthly payments on a home should not exceed 28% of take home pay. By that long ago standard of prudent lending, Homer Simpson would have to take home $99,000 a year, after taxes.

    So, no. The Simpsons can’t afford their 500k home on a single income in 2019, assuming they’ve salted away $100k for the down payment.

    But Apu could.

    https://www.indiaabroad.com/indian-americans/report-indian-americans-income-highest-in-u-s/article_ffc92b60-9ff9-11e7-93fd-479826805b04.html

    • Replies: @Prester John
    Wonder how many of 'em are surnamed "Patel" or "Singh"?
  69. @anonymous
    OT but I think you'll like it.

    Check out this real life Ali G at the European Parliament (starts at 7:10, but watch the preceding minute for some context):



    https://youtu.be/WSOUsfl_CVA?t=7m10s

    My nominee for most 2019 video clip evah.

    You’d think the fact that the likes of Farage incidentally becoming the most strident voice for the unheard interests and voice of the English working class would cause some political soul-searching but no, they just pretend that he is ‘running a playbook’ and ‘lying’. Sad.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    Very true.
    The self appointed left is morally and intellectually bankrupt.
  70. A family like the Simpson’s wouldn’t be buying their first home when their oldest kid was 10 – they would have bought it some time ago, maybe around the time Bart was born or when their 2nd child was born. 8 or 10 years ago housing was cheaper in most markets.

    I never understood why housing in the West sits on such small lots when there is basically infinite desert surrounding Las Vegas. I think it might have to do with the fact that most of that land is Federal and not for sale. It also has to do with the fact that modern America is more crowded so land costs are higher.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Problem of urban sprawl (too low population density housing) is already horrible in California, especially in combination with lack of public transport.

    Why would you want larger housing lots?

    It needs to build higher population density of the housing there, which is then located closer to the cities, and better connected with public transport.

    , @Johann Ricke

    I never understood why housing in the West sits on such small lots when there is basically infinite desert surrounding Las Vegas.
     
    Land is *relatively* cheap, but utilities and roads are not. That's presumably why cities in poor countries like India tend to be extremely crowded - at Manhattan levels, but without many First World amenities - even as population densities elsewhere are far sparser than the average CA suburb. The picture below is why everyone flocks to the cities:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Carrying_home_some_fresh_water.jpg
  71. Christ you’re autistic

  72. @Reg Cæsar

    Springfield is supposed to be modeled on Groening’s hometown of Portland, Ore., so perhaps that’s where you should be comparing home prices.
     
    Could Ramona's Quimbys afford their post-war house on Klickitat Street today? Her father lost his job in one of those books.

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever. Ramona's creator Beverly Cleary once said she expected to live to 80. She's now 103 1/2.

    Well, at least she's got Ramona's royalties. Mrs Cleary's in a California retirement home today. I wonder who's "nursing" her now.

    I still remember enjoying those Ramona books when I was little, and I wish the author well. I can’t help wondering, though, What is the point of continuing to live at 103? Seriously, isn’t there an optimum cut-off point maybe in your early 90s that would avoid the inevitably vast/painful diminishing returns? Know when to die, as Sam Kinison said.

    Though I suppose that’s always something easy for someone else who’s younger to say, but when it’s you, maybe you always want to hang on on a little bit longer. But by the time you’re 100, what are you hoping or waiting for? Let it be. You had a good long life, give up the ghost and find out what’s next.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What is the point of continuing to live at 103?
     
    Elliott Carter was still composing when he died at 103. Possibly on the same day.

    Irving Berlin also wrote nearly to the end. He lived to 101. Irving Caesar (no relation, to Berlin or to me) seemed to aim to beat his fellow songwriter; he lived a few months longer.

    100 can be a milestone. Bob Hope was determined to reach that because he had a relative who just missed it. As a child back in England, he even knew a woman who was born before Lincoln and Darwin.

    Hope's 90th birthday special was embarrassing. He flubbed some lines which were then clumsily dubbed in later. So he wasn't presentable in his 90s. On the other hand, character actor Charles Lane announced at his 100th birthday celebration, "I'm still available!"

    Strom Thurmond at 100 was likely of more value to his colleagues than Cal Ripken Jr was at the end of his (bogus) streak.
    , @Kratoklastes
    Agree totally. Last year, a retired botany professor called David Goodall, had himself killed in a Swiss clinic. He couldn't do so legally in Australia, because the government thinks it owns us; he wasn't concerned for himself, but for the threat of a decade of imprisonment for anyone who helped him.

    He had previously indicated his desire to do so a year or so previously, on a TV show called "You Can't Ask That", where he and several other centenarians were asked a bunch of viewer questions. Goodall wasn't infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ' losing' three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).

    There's nothing wrong whatsoever if someone decides they've had enough: it's the ultimate expression of self-ownership. Like any sound idea, that gets messy: if a 12 year old decides to off themselves, does anyone get to intervene? Of course they do - family and friends have every right to try to change the person's mind, whatever their age... but government has no moral right to intervene.

    And of course people who know they're in terminal decline (Parkinsons, Alzheimers, MND, etc) kill themselves all the time: however each of those degenerative illnesses also has a massive grift attached to it, where people at the top of advocacy organisations are on half a million bucks a year... would't do to recognise, let alone endorse, people's right to self-terminate.

  73. @Steve Sailer
    I had an in-law who worked for Motorola in its cell phone division. In the 1980s and early 1990s, Motorola was going gangbusters in cell phones. Then, however, I started to hear the N Word: Nokia.

    My first flip phone was a Moto. My second was a Nokia.

  74. “Don’t ask me how the economy works” – Homer Simpson

  75. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I had an in-law who worked for Motorola in its cell phone division. In the 1980s and early 1990s, Motorola was going gangbusters in cell phones. Then, however, I started to hear the N Word: Nokia.

    The Motorola Razr was the hottest cellphone in the mid to late 2000s. It was a flipphone and the slimmest cellphone at the time. People don’t remember but it was a high end product associated with celebrities and the wealthy at the time. Then smartphones came out and everyone forgot about the Razr, and Motorola didn’t successfully pivot to smartphones.

  76. @Paleo Liberal
    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrats because they occasionally throw working Americans a bone.

    I look at what has helped or hurt my family.

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

    The EIC helped the few years I was really poor. That was Clinton’s doing. (Actually, my late father was one is the many people Clinton for the idea from. Thanks, Dad). Also, when I was poor, I got to use NYC and NY state medical help to keep my medical costs down. Mostly Democrats on that one, although liberal Republicans helped too.

    The child tax credit was a Republican idea. Helped my family.

    Tax cuts for the rich, which drove up the debt, came from the Republicans, and my children’s grandchildren will still be paying for those.

    My children’s grandchildren will also be paying for all the wars Bush Jr got us into.

    One of my kids is attending college on a scholarship the Democrats in Wisconsin came up with.

    My wife is a state worker, and state workers were screwed over by Republicans.

    The Republicans hurt the Wisconsin schools, which hurt my kids.

    Trump has done a little bit to lessen H1-B visa fraud. I am a programmer now. The H-1B visa scam destroys the careers of Americans. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn’t actually reduced the number of H1-B visa recipients.

    So on the balance, the Democrats have been better for me and for my family than the Republicans. Both have done good and bad things. But if I chose a particular party that represented my family interests, it would be the Democrats most of the time.

    I trained my Indian offshore replacements at a tier-1 automotive supplier. I then got a contract job at a big automotive OEM, fixed their shit code that didn’t work that no one would use and then trained my Chinese H1-B replacement. At my last job, there were no native born left in my rather large group after I was replaced. We the people of the US have already lost. We have been replaced, intentionally, by people motivated by a false hope of short term monetary gain, as well as spite and hatred.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Steve2:

    Truly disheartening and this very day Senator Mike Lee is doing his utmost to make the problem of unfettered techie immigration even worse. To all, say hello to your new subcontinent overlords.
  77. @Jack D
    A family like the Simpson's wouldn't be buying their first home when their oldest kid was 10 - they would have bought it some time ago, maybe around the time Bart was born or when their 2nd child was born. 8 or 10 years ago housing was cheaper in most markets.

    I never understood why housing in the West sits on such small lots when there is basically infinite desert surrounding Las Vegas. I think it might have to do with the fact that most of that land is Federal and not for sale. It also has to do with the fact that modern America is more crowded so land costs are higher.

    Problem of urban sprawl (too low population density housing) is already horrible in California, especially in combination with lack of public transport.

    Why would you want larger housing lots?

    It needs to build higher population density of the housing there, which is then located closer to the cities, and better connected with public transport.

    • Replies: @John Redcorn
    I think somewhat higher density is good too but Steve disagrees.

    But there IS a middle ground between the low density of San Fernando Valley and the housing of Blade Runner.

    Finding that middle ground might be better than longing for the lost world of California in the 1960's which great as it might have been is gone now and not going to come back.
  78. @William Badwhite
    In one of the episodes Kent Brockman, the news reader, makes a reference to "the small, central Kentucky town of Springfield" but my sense is they move it around partly to tweak the viewers. Springfield, KY is pretty much right in the middle (east/west wise).

    Kent Brockman, the news reader, makes a reference to “the small, central Kentucky town of Springfield

    That was actually the unidentified narrator of the non-canonical Behind The Music parody episode.

  79. IIRC, Homer was given the house by Grandpa Simpson, who’d won it on a rigged game show. (Grandpa: “I snitched on everybody and got off scot-free!”) The deal was that he’d get to live there, but Homer sent him to an old-folks-home after three weeks.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    (Grandpa: “I snitched on everybody and got off scot-free!”) T

    OT

    That's approximately what Herbert Stempel did. Charles van Doren was dismissed from his job and never worked in academe again. He landed a position at Encyclopedia Britannica on the patronage of Mortimer Adler (a family friend) and remained there until he retired. More than 35 years years later, the odious Robert Redford sees fit to hang him out to dry in a feature film.
    , @mmack
    Click on the link I posted with the video and you’ll see Abe SELLS the house he got on a crooked TV game show to give Homer the money to buy 742 Evergreen Terrace.

    But they did put Grandpa Simpson in a retirement home three weeks after moving in. 😄
  80. @Paleo Liberal
    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrats because they occasionally throw working Americans a bone.

    I look at what has helped or hurt my family.

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

    The EIC helped the few years I was really poor. That was Clinton’s doing. (Actually, my late father was one is the many people Clinton for the idea from. Thanks, Dad). Also, when I was poor, I got to use NYC and NY state medical help to keep my medical costs down. Mostly Democrats on that one, although liberal Republicans helped too.

    The child tax credit was a Republican idea. Helped my family.

    Tax cuts for the rich, which drove up the debt, came from the Republicans, and my children’s grandchildren will still be paying for those.

    My children’s grandchildren will also be paying for all the wars Bush Jr got us into.

    One of my kids is attending college on a scholarship the Democrats in Wisconsin came up with.

    My wife is a state worker, and state workers were screwed over by Republicans.

    The Republicans hurt the Wisconsin schools, which hurt my kids.

    Trump has done a little bit to lessen H1-B visa fraud. I am a programmer now. The H-1B visa scam destroys the careers of Americans. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn’t actually reduced the number of H1-B visa recipients.

    So on the balance, the Democrats have been better for me and for my family than the Republicans. Both have done good and bad things. But if I chose a particular party that represented my family interests, it would be the Democrats most of the time.

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

    Republican Party CHEAP LABOR FACTION politican whore Mike Lee wants to flood the USA with Asian Indians to undercut the wages of US workers.

    The Republican Party is controlled by evil money-grubbing donors who want to fire American citizens and replace them with foreigners from India, China, Mexico and other nations.

    Trump wants to pour more millions of Chinese students into USA and give them green cards. Trump wants more guest worker foreigners and visa worker foreigners and every other kind of foreigner he can drag into the USA.

    Trump wants to flood the USA with mass legal immigration “in the largest numbers ever.”

  81. @Dieter Kief
    In the suburbs of Konstanz, such a house in a decent (not first-rate) neighborhood would be 2 million Euros+.

    This one has three bedrooms and 360 sq m property and is offered for 1.3 million:

    https://www.engelvoelkers.com/de-de/exposes/traumhaus-sucht-familie-4118262.1333600_exp/
  82. @GU
    And the property taxes are probably $8,000 a year.

    $14,000 in NJ

  83. @Appianglorius
    If I remember correctly, the school district has about 85% yellow students

    If I recall, the original rationale of having the characters be bright yellow was so they couldn’t be identified with any race or ethnic group. They wanted the characters to be “universal.” That later fell by the wayside, though, as they introduced dark-skinned characters, so bright yellow became “white” by default.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    The reason for the yellow was so the characters would stand out to channel-surfers. You would be astonished at how “diverse” the background Springfield townspeople are from early in the series. As in 2019-levels of diversity.

    It’s a little jarring, almost like they knew something...
  84. @Jack D
    A family like the Simpson's wouldn't be buying their first home when their oldest kid was 10 - they would have bought it some time ago, maybe around the time Bart was born or when their 2nd child was born. 8 or 10 years ago housing was cheaper in most markets.

    I never understood why housing in the West sits on such small lots when there is basically infinite desert surrounding Las Vegas. I think it might have to do with the fact that most of that land is Federal and not for sale. It also has to do with the fact that modern America is more crowded so land costs are higher.

    I never understood why housing in the West sits on such small lots when there is basically infinite desert surrounding Las Vegas.

    Land is *relatively* cheap, but utilities and roads are not. That’s presumably why cities in poor countries like India tend to be extremely crowded – at Manhattan levels, but without many First World amenities – even as population densities elsewhere are far sparser than the average CA suburb. The picture below is why everyone flocks to the cities:

    • Replies: @Richard P

    Land is *relatively* cheap, but utilities and roads are not.
     
    You can avoid paying for utilities as I do in a remote area of the Rockies. I live a fully self-sufficient lifestyle on unincorporated land. My set-up is minimalist and inexpensive -- and is located in a stunning area.

    Electricity is derived from a single solar panel and a backup generator. Water is stored in a tank. Fully organic septic system. No taxes on the land as it's unincorporated. No TV or unnecessary appliances. Mostly raw, organic diet and I dehydrate wild game and wild caught fish. Hand wash all of my clothes as they're Merino wool or made from organic cotton and hemp. Self-employed and work worldwide as a contractor. Exceptional living for less than $20,000 in total start up costs.

    It's mind boggling to me how people are enslaved to consumerism and materialism. It's a sign of insecurity and degeneracy -- nobody needs a several thousand square foot home.

  85. @Achmed E. Newman
    I remembered that 28% figure before my eyes got to it, Piltdown. However, wasn't it a percentage of gross pay? I was involved in that world, but I had to get a co-signer myself, which is a funny story, come to think of it.

    Thanks for the fun post, Steve. I've been spending time arguing with ignorant Commies under some other unz.com posts, and this is a more peaceful world here, by far!

    I’m pretty sure it was gross pay too. We were actively house hunting in the early 80s but were turned off by the double-digit mortgage rates, not to mention the fact that we never could scratch up enough dough to make a down payment.

  86. @JimB

    The old credit rule of thumb mortgage bankers used to use back in the 1980s (now mostly abandoned) was that the monthly payments on a home should not exceed 28% of take home pay. By that long ago standard of prudent lending, Homer Simpson would have to take home $99,000 a year, after taxes.
    ...
    So, no. The Simpsons can’t afford their 500k home on a single income in 2019, assuming they’ve salted away $100k for the down payment.
     
    But Apu could.

    https://www.indiaabroad.com/indian-americans/report-indian-americans-income-highest-in-u-s/article_ffc92b60-9ff9-11e7-93fd-479826805b04.html

    Wonder how many of ’em are surnamed “Patel” or “Singh”?

    • Replies: @JimB

    Wonder how many of ’em are surnamed “Patel” or “Singh”?
     
    I don't know about the Patels, but the Singh's are a mixed bag. Sikhs in general are no better off economically than whites and many are relegated to driving cabs and working in mini-marts for their brother-in-law.
  87. Today’s Homer does not have a job.

    He was replaced by an H1-B.

    His pension was embezzled.

    His children are pozzed, drug addled, and indoctrinated against their skin color and religion.

    Marge is ok, but not successful and no longer lives in that home.

    Figure it out. They don’t like you.

  88. @Mr. Blank
    If I recall, the original rationale of having the characters be bright yellow was so they couldn't be identified with any race or ethnic group. They wanted the characters to be "universal." That later fell by the wayside, though, as they introduced dark-skinned characters, so bright yellow became "white" by default.

    The reason for the yellow was so the characters would stand out to channel-surfers. You would be astonished at how “diverse” the background Springfield townspeople are from early in the series. As in 2019-levels of diversity.

    It’s a little jarring, almost like they knew something…

  89. @Paleo Liberal
    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrats because they occasionally throw working Americans a bone.

    I look at what has helped or hurt my family.

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

    The EIC helped the few years I was really poor. That was Clinton’s doing. (Actually, my late father was one is the many people Clinton for the idea from. Thanks, Dad). Also, when I was poor, I got to use NYC and NY state medical help to keep my medical costs down. Mostly Democrats on that one, although liberal Republicans helped too.

    The child tax credit was a Republican idea. Helped my family.

    Tax cuts for the rich, which drove up the debt, came from the Republicans, and my children’s grandchildren will still be paying for those.

    My children’s grandchildren will also be paying for all the wars Bush Jr got us into.

    One of my kids is attending college on a scholarship the Democrats in Wisconsin came up with.

    My wife is a state worker, and state workers were screwed over by Republicans.

    The Republicans hurt the Wisconsin schools, which hurt my kids.

    Trump has done a little bit to lessen H1-B visa fraud. I am a programmer now. The H-1B visa scam destroys the careers of Americans. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn’t actually reduced the number of H1-B visa recipients.

    So on the balance, the Democrats have been better for me and for my family than the Republicans. Both have done good and bad things. But if I chose a particular party that represented my family interests, it would be the Democrats most of the time.

    Most of those Tienaneman square “refugees” would have flattened that lone protestor standing in front of the tank in a heartbeat. They would have floored the accelerator on tha tank, and squish. The dude was getting in the way of business and making China look bad.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The dude was getting in the way of business and making China look bad.
     
    What business was being carried on in Tiananmen Square, other than tourism and illegal currency exchange?
    , @Paleo Liberal
    The Chinese students I knew at the time all protested at the Chinese UN embassy.

    They were old enough to remember the Cultural Revolution
    , @Dan Hayes
    Daniel H:

    I was surprised to recently learn that no one was killed at Tienaneman Square! The carnage occurred in other neighborhoods as part of the general unrest.
  90. @Rupert
    I still remember enjoying those Ramona books when I was little, and I wish the author well. I can't help wondering, though, What is the point of continuing to live at 103? Seriously, isn't there an optimum cut-off point maybe in your early 90s that would avoid the inevitably vast/painful diminishing returns? Know when to die, as Sam Kinison said.

    Though I suppose that's always something easy for someone else who's younger to say, but when it's you, maybe you always want to hang on on a little bit longer. But by the time you're 100, what are you hoping or waiting for? Let it be. You had a good long life, give up the ghost and find out what's next.

    What is the point of continuing to live at 103?

    Elliott Carter was still composing when he died at 103. Possibly on the same day.

    Irving Berlin also wrote nearly to the end. He lived to 101. Irving Caesar (no relation, to Berlin or to me) seemed to aim to beat his fellow songwriter; he lived a few months longer.

    100 can be a milestone. Bob Hope was determined to reach that because he had a relative who just missed it. As a child back in England, he even knew a woman who was born before Lincoln and Darwin.

    Hope’s 90th birthday special was embarrassing. He flubbed some lines which were then clumsily dubbed in later. So he wasn’t presentable in his 90s. On the other hand, character actor Charles Lane announced at his 100th birthday celebration, “I’m still available!”

    Strom Thurmond at 100 was likely of more value to his colleagues than Cal Ripken Jr was at the end of his (bogus) streak.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Why was the streak bogus? You talking the Kevin Costner nonsense?
  91. @Lars Porsena
    I remember that. Everyone in the trades use to have push-to-talk cellphone/walkie-talkies.

    I remember that. Everyone in the trades use to have push-to-talk cellphone/walkie-talkies

    I think those were Nextel.

  92. The series established that Homer is a control center / shift operator. (2). $100-150K/yr would be quite reasonable as estimated pay.

    In an area that hasn’t been gouged by excessive land cost, the house with yard would be quite affordable on that salary. Think the Crystal River, Florida (1) before the plant started decommissioning.

    PEACE

    ____

    (1) https://www.zillow.com/crystal-river-fl/

    (2) Simpsons: Homer causes meltdown

  93. @Daniel H
    Most of those Tienaneman square “refugees” would have flattened that lone protestor standing in front of the tank in a heartbeat. They would have floored the accelerator on tha tank, and squish. The dude was getting in the way of business and making China look bad.

    The dude was getting in the way of business and making China look bad.

    What business was being carried on in Tiananmen Square, other than tourism and illegal currency exchange?

  94. @istevefan

    When will a nationalist conservative politician state the obvious:

    “The Democrats hate your kids.”

     

    Actually the democrats hate Whites, and that is what needs to be said. We can still expect 40 to 44% of Whites to vote for the democrats in 2020. Is there any other group in the world who votes in such large proportions for a party that openly despises them?

    Very nearly everyone who votes, votes for someone who despises them. So the question reduces a bit – it’s a question of whether it’s better to be conscious of being a dupe for the parasite classes, or to be a double-dupe and think that one or other side of the grift has any interest in advancing the interest of the schlubs.

    Voting is like choosing which flavour of Abrahamic religion to adopt: anyone who actively chooses any, shows themselves to be gullible, and is being grifted by one of the world’s two oldest scams… religion and politics.

  95. anon[169] • Disclaimer says:

    Why do animated series insist on showing families with a single provider? Simpsons, American Dad, Family Guy show families supported by their father, while their mother is a housewife. Why was it the rule when the creators of the series were children? The Loud House apparently innovated, but in practice made a variation of the trope, showing a family supported by the mother, while the father stays at home eating horrible meals and neglecting his children. Anyway, how the huge family is sustained is inexplicable.

    • Replies: @John Redcorn
    Good question. It has to do most likely with the facts that

    1. this is the cultural memory of the baby-boomers who did most of the writing, creation and production for these shows.

    2. for many elite TV producers, single income families are still feasible.

    That said, many family shows done in the 80's and since have featured wives working outside the home. (Family Ties, Roseanne, Everybody Loves Raymond etc--and of course Modern Family)
    , @mmack
    In the case of The Simpsons creator Matt Groening admits he named the characters (except for Bart) after his family members. His father was named Homer, his mother was named Marge, and his sisters are named Maggie and Lisa. Bart is an anagram of brat. So I am guessing Matt grew up in a single income household with a “shot and a beer” father who stopped into a bar like Moe’s Tavern for his Boilermaker.

    As for Seth MacFarlane, creator of the other two shows you mention, who knows?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Why do animated series insist on showing families with a single provider?
     
    For the same reason Thomas Kinkade was a painter rather than an architect. People like to see what they can never afford to have.
  96. @Paleo Liberal
    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrats because they occasionally throw working Americans a bone.

    I look at what has helped or hurt my family.

    Bush Sr. let every Chinese student in the US at the time of the Tienanmen Square massacre stay forever. That killed the job market in STEM for Americans. And the job market never really recovered with the H1-B program. That action helped a few Chinese, and helped companies looking for cheap PhDs, but destroyed my career in science.

    The EIC helped the few years I was really poor. That was Clinton’s doing. (Actually, my late father was one is the many people Clinton for the idea from. Thanks, Dad). Also, when I was poor, I got to use NYC and NY state medical help to keep my medical costs down. Mostly Democrats on that one, although liberal Republicans helped too.

    The child tax credit was a Republican idea. Helped my family.

    Tax cuts for the rich, which drove up the debt, came from the Republicans, and my children’s grandchildren will still be paying for those.

    My children’s grandchildren will also be paying for all the wars Bush Jr got us into.

    One of my kids is attending college on a scholarship the Democrats in Wisconsin came up with.

    My wife is a state worker, and state workers were screwed over by Republicans.

    The Republicans hurt the Wisconsin schools, which hurt my kids.

    Trump has done a little bit to lessen H1-B visa fraud. I am a programmer now. The H-1B visa scam destroys the careers of Americans. Unfortunately, the GOP hasn’t actually reduced the number of H1-B visa recipients.

    So on the balance, the Democrats have been better for me and for my family than the Republicans. Both have done good and bad things. But if I chose a particular party that represented my family interests, it would be the Democrats most of the time.

    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrat

    I didn’t write ‘screw over’. I wrote openly hate. There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites. Even Steve has on several occasions described their strategy as stirring up White racial animus to keep the coalition of the fringes together. Or to use his term the KKKrazy glue.

    As for democrats being for workers, that might be true if you consider workers that aren’t American. These are not Harry Truman democrats any more.

    • Agree: Charon
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites."

    That is Fake News.

    "Even Steve has on several occasions described their strategy as stirring up White racial animus to keep the coalition of the fringes together. Or to use his term the KKKrazy glue."

    You mean the strategy by the Alt Right and Radical Leftists.

    "As for democrats being for workers, that might be true if you consider workers that aren’t American."

    You mean workers who are citizens of the United States.

    "If only we had leadership that went for the jugular like the Left."

    OK, you take the lead. You are supposedly white and have an alleged high IQ. The stage is yours...
    , @James Forrrestal

    There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites.
     
    Obviously. But the GOP covertly hates whites.
  97. @Rupert
    I still remember enjoying those Ramona books when I was little, and I wish the author well. I can't help wondering, though, What is the point of continuing to live at 103? Seriously, isn't there an optimum cut-off point maybe in your early 90s that would avoid the inevitably vast/painful diminishing returns? Know when to die, as Sam Kinison said.

    Though I suppose that's always something easy for someone else who's younger to say, but when it's you, maybe you always want to hang on on a little bit longer. But by the time you're 100, what are you hoping or waiting for? Let it be. You had a good long life, give up the ghost and find out what's next.

    Agree totally. Last year, a retired botany professor called David Goodall, had himself killed in a Swiss clinic. He couldn’t do so legally in Australia, because the government thinks it owns us; he wasn’t concerned for himself, but for the threat of a decade of imprisonment for anyone who helped him.

    He had previously indicated his desire to do so a year or so previously, on a TV show called “You Can’t Ask That”, where he and several other centenarians were asked a bunch of viewer questions. Goodall wasn’t infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ‘ losing’ three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).

    There’s nothing wrong whatsoever if someone decides they’ve had enough: it’s the ultimate expression of self-ownership. Like any sound idea, that gets messy: if a 12 year old decides to off themselves, does anyone get to intervene? Of course they do – family and friends have every right to try to change the person’s mind, whatever their age… but government has no moral right to intervene.

    And of course people who know they’re in terminal decline (Parkinsons, Alzheimers, MND, etc) kill themselves all the time: however each of those degenerative illnesses also has a massive grift attached to it, where people at the top of advocacy organisations are on half a million bucks a year… would’t do to recognise, let alone endorse, people’s right to self-terminate.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Goodall wasn’t infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ‘ losing’ three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).
     
    I'd want to know if cervical or other female cancers were involved. It's known some men secrete a very carcinogenic agent in their sperm and they will lose two or three wives from the same cause. It's also why very promiscuous women have much higher rates of these cancers. If any one of those guys is one of these the danger of getting these cancers is much higher.


    As I recall James Dougherty, the retired LA cop who married the future Marilyn Monroe in 1942, lost both of the other two wives he'd had to these cancers. From what he said in interviews and what Monroe allegedly told friends, he always used condoms with her because he didn't want to leave her with a baby if he got killed while serving in the Merchant Marine during the war. Maybe she dodged a big bullet there....she was autopsied t 36 and there was no cancer found, but I don't know what the time factor involved is between exposure and generating a noticeable malignancy.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Of course they do – family and friends have every right to try to change the person’s mind, whatever their age… but government has no moral right to intervene
     
    You're not one of those common commenters who tear down libertarians as fools and/or knaves, then turn around and make a libertarian-sounding argument on a pet issue for convenience?

    We need bumper stickers that say, "But I'm pro-choice on everything else. How about you?"

    I helped my church distribute donated clothing after a major flood. One kid's shirt read, in a rainbow of colors,

    CHOICE
    CHOICE
    CHOICE
    CHOICE

    I asked a fellow volunteer if this was an appropriate item for a Catholic clothing drive. He said yes, if it were about schools.

  98. @Reg Cæsar

    Where would the Simpson house be located? Nuclear power plants are usually distant from expensive cities.
     
    The ancient Davis-Besse plant is 30 miles from Toledo. The giant mosque in Perrysburg, America's largest from 1983-2005, is only 12 miles away. Which is a greater threat?

    Note that the mosque was mortgaged and paid off from Detroit liquor sale profits, so it's rather louche by Islamic standards. It even had a female president, possibly the first in Islam.



    A mosque in America's heartland

    That’s a great question and thanks for all that interesting info! It reminds me of the time I passed a busy mosque in Richland, Washington and thought to myself that it was just a few miles from the Hanford Site (part of the Manhattan Project) that built the atomic bomb which destroyed Nagasaki. Today there’s much more politically correct research being done at the nearby Northwest Pacific National Laboratory and I’m sure that is where these imported Muslim scientists work.

    BTW, any American born, blue collar worker such as a welder, millwright, pipefitter, electrician, etc… who happens to get a DUI will be banned from working in a nuclear power plant for 5 years being deemed as a security risk. And every welder I’ve known for the past 40 years winds down after work with beer or whiskey (sometimes both) so a DUI is fairly common for them. These nuke plant outages pay high dollar union wages and it’s a shame that talented Americans with good hands-on construction skills cannot apply for the silly reason of having a DUI. However, Achmed the imported wannabe terrorist can easily get a job in a nuke plant as a buyer, project engineer or work in I.T. since he is a credentialed (yet incompetent) teetotaler with a clean driving record.

  99. @Daniel H
    Most of those Tienaneman square “refugees” would have flattened that lone protestor standing in front of the tank in a heartbeat. They would have floored the accelerator on tha tank, and squish. The dude was getting in the way of business and making China look bad.

    The Chinese students I knew at the time all protested at the Chinese UN embassy.

    They were old enough to remember the Cultural Revolution

  100. @Johann Ricke

    I never understood why housing in the West sits on such small lots when there is basically infinite desert surrounding Las Vegas.
     
    Land is *relatively* cheap, but utilities and roads are not. That's presumably why cities in poor countries like India tend to be extremely crowded - at Manhattan levels, but without many First World amenities - even as population densities elsewhere are far sparser than the average CA suburb. The picture below is why everyone flocks to the cities:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Carrying_home_some_fresh_water.jpg

    Land is *relatively* cheap, but utilities and roads are not.

    You can avoid paying for utilities as I do in a remote area of the Rockies. I live a fully self-sufficient lifestyle on unincorporated land. My set-up is minimalist and inexpensive — and is located in a stunning area.

    Electricity is derived from a single solar panel and a backup generator. Water is stored in a tank. Fully organic septic system. No taxes on the land as it’s unincorporated. No TV or unnecessary appliances. Mostly raw, organic diet and I dehydrate wild game and wild caught fish. Hand wash all of my clothes as they’re Merino wool or made from organic cotton and hemp. Self-employed and work worldwide as a contractor. Exceptional living for less than $20,000 in total start up costs.

    It’s mind boggling to me how people are enslaved to consumerism and materialism. It’s a sign of insecurity and degeneracy — nobody needs a several thousand square foot home.

    • Replies: @John Redcorn
    Fascinating.

    It looks like you are online.

    Do you have a blog or something that describes how you have done what you do?
  101. @nebulafox
    When right-wing politicians stop taking orders from people who profit most from social atomization and turning the world into a giant box store.

    Don't kid yourself, for any real nationalist revival, the beloved Job Creators will have to be politically castrated. They are as much of a problem as the woke crowd. The BoomerCon GOP in its current incarnation will never be capable of that, so why show them any loyalty?

    couldn’t agree more, except that the “Job Creators” are far worse than the woke crowd. They have resources and can easily coopt “wokeness” as part of their overall PR/marketing strategy.

    But the “Job Creators” have clearly coopted Trump since he is clearly gearing up to run against Democrat’s “socialism”.

  102. The oldest part of Konstanz sits on the Swiss (=left) side of the Rhine but is (mostly) German. The Castle you linked to is sure nice, but – old looks like there’d be much work waiting for a new owner and – – – it is situated in French Nowhereland. The middle of France, roughly spoken is, where they close villages. – People – die, kill themselves, drink (and die after some time) and the rest moves out, hardly anybody wants to live there any longer. Very nice to hike and ride the bike, especially in the summer time. The Massive Central and the upper Loire region including Le Puy and western Bourgogne and… are all very beautiful and scenic and – – – – empty. Not compared to Idaho or Montana, but compared to the Black Forest or to the Swiss Jura…

    • Replies: @black sea
    In Submission, Houellebecq describes the preservation of French villages -- and a simulacrum of French village life -- as a ploy of the tourist industry necessary to lure the new waves of Chinese middle-class travelers.
  103. @International Jew
    About $3 million.
    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/852-Los-Robles-Ave-Palo-Alto-CA-94306/19505612_zpid/

    The Simpsons don’t live in Palo Alto though.

  104. @anon
    Why do animated series insist on showing families with a single provider? Simpsons, American Dad, Family Guy show families supported by their father, while their mother is a housewife. Why was it the rule when the creators of the series were children? The Loud House apparently innovated, but in practice made a variation of the trope, showing a family supported by the mother, while the father stays at home eating horrible meals and neglecting his children. Anyway, how the huge family is sustained is inexplicable.

    Good question. It has to do most likely with the facts that

    1. this is the cultural memory of the baby-boomers who did most of the writing, creation and production for these shows.

    2. for many elite TV producers, single income families are still feasible.

    That said, many family shows done in the 80’s and since have featured wives working outside the home. (Family Ties, Roseanne, Everybody Loves Raymond etc–and of course Modern Family)

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    wives working outside the home. (Family Ties, Roseanne, Everybody Loves Raymond etc–and of course Modern Family)
     
    On Everybody Loves Raymond, Debra attempted to get a job in advertising and was fired on her first day. On Modern Family, Claire didn't work until after her kids graduated high school and she was set up with a cushy job in her father's business. Gloria didn't work at all.
  105. @TBA
    IIRC, Homer was given the house by Grandpa Simpson, who'd won it on a rigged game show. (Grandpa: "I snitched on everybody and got off scot-free!") The deal was that he'd get to live there, but Homer sent him to an old-folks-home after three weeks.

    (Grandpa: “I snitched on everybody and got off scot-free!”) T

    OT

    That’s approximately what Herbert Stempel did. Charles van Doren was dismissed from his job and never worked in academe again. He landed a position at Encyclopedia Britannica on the patronage of Mortimer Adler (a family friend) and remained there until he retired. More than 35 years years later, the odious Robert Redford sees fit to hang him out to dry in a feature film.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    I didn't realize that van Doren died this past April. As for (((Stempel))), he is still alive at 92.
  106. @Dmitry
    Problem of urban sprawl (too low population density housing) is already horrible in California, especially in combination with lack of public transport.

    Why would you want larger housing lots?

    It needs to build higher population density of the housing there, which is then located closer to the cities, and better connected with public transport.

    I think somewhat higher density is good too but Steve disagrees.

    But there IS a middle ground between the low density of San Fernando Valley and the housing of Blade Runner.

    Finding that middle ground might be better than longing for the lost world of California in the 1960’s which great as it might have been is gone now and not going to come back.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Yes, I believe there will be some "middle ground" or "golden mean" in population density.

    For example, I would advocate population density of 19th century, bourgeois English housing, in suburbs like Primrose Hill in London - this is close to ideal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efud5gJ9YV8

    At this population density - the suburb is not Bladerunner, but it avoids souless atmosphere of American suburbs and results in community events.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF3iTyWIWGs

  107. @George
    Where would the Simpson house be located? Nuclear power plants are usually distant from expensive cities.

    These 15 U.S. Cities Are Most at Risk of Experiencing a Nuclear Meltdown
    https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/u-s-cities-risk-nuclear-meltdown.html/

    Maybe here?

    Quad Cities Nuclear Generating Station
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_Cities_Nuclear_Generating_Station

    The area they live in seems virtually all white. How come Lisa doesn't have high performing Asian friends to remind her that they have to study more than she to get into Harvard? She would probably be in a class tracked as smart or 'gifted'. It would actually be funny if they cut to her gifted and talented classroom filled with identical Chinese Americans a couple of South Asians (Apu's kids), an African Igbo-American and Lisa. Maybe another white kid of dubious Hispanic ancestry that insists he is Mexican. After school, the Asian kids go, fruitlessly, to the local Kumon math center, while Lisa plays soccer (literally playing ball), and Bart plays video games and answers phone calls from military recruiters. The only Asian kid with a real chance at Harvard is a Korean American girl who plays golf all day while her tiger Mommy quizzes her on math and claps when she sinks a putt.

    Simpson is some sort of nuclear technician, but probably not degreed but maybe credentialed. So probably well paid for the area.

    I think in one episode they are living with grandpa and they send Grand Pa to an old folks home, so the house might be Grand pa Simpson's originally, likely paid off. The house seems to have an addition, the garage, which seems like not as good, so cheaper, as one building. They lived in it in the 80s too.

    Bart … answers phone calls from military recruiters.

    No, he wouldn’t. He would be part of the 75 percent of 18 to 24 year-olds who can’t qualify to join the armed forces nowadays.

  108. @TBA
    IIRC, Homer was given the house by Grandpa Simpson, who'd won it on a rigged game show. (Grandpa: "I snitched on everybody and got off scot-free!") The deal was that he'd get to live there, but Homer sent him to an old-folks-home after three weeks.

    Click on the link I posted with the video and you’ll see Abe SELLS the house he got on a crooked TV game show to give Homer the money to buy 742 Evergreen Terrace.

    But they did put Grandpa Simpson in a retirement home three weeks after moving in. 😄

  109. @Reg Cæsar

    Springfield is supposed to be modeled on Groening’s hometown of Portland, Ore., so perhaps that’s where you should be comparing home prices.
     
    Could Ramona's Quimbys afford their post-war house on Klickitat Street today? Her father lost his job in one of those books.

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever. Ramona's creator Beverly Cleary once said she expected to live to 80. She's now 103 1/2.

    Well, at least she's got Ramona's royalties. Mrs Cleary's in a California retirement home today. I wonder who's "nursing" her now.

    Any relation to Springfield’s Mayor Quimby?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Any relation to Springfield’s Mayor Quimby?
     
    I wouldn't put it past them at all. After all, Ned Flanders got his name from a street in Portland. They did an episode called "Rosebud", obviously a Citizen Kane parody, but the Portland Rosebuds were also the first U.S.-based team to go to the Stanley Cup Final.

    Portland is all over the Simpsons, or vice versa:

    https://www.travelportland.com/article/simpsons/
    https://www.oregonlive.com/movies/2012/05/the_simpsons_map_of_portland_w.html

    This is Ramona Quimby's statue in Portland's Grant Park, a short walk from Klikitat Street:


    https://www.travelportland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/RamonaStatues019_web-652x521.jpg

    , @Reg Cæsar
  110. @anon
    Why do animated series insist on showing families with a single provider? Simpsons, American Dad, Family Guy show families supported by their father, while their mother is a housewife. Why was it the rule when the creators of the series were children? The Loud House apparently innovated, but in practice made a variation of the trope, showing a family supported by the mother, while the father stays at home eating horrible meals and neglecting his children. Anyway, how the huge family is sustained is inexplicable.

    In the case of The Simpsons creator Matt Groening admits he named the characters (except for Bart) after his family members. His father was named Homer, his mother was named Marge, and his sisters are named Maggie and Lisa. Bart is an anagram of brat. So I am guessing Matt grew up in a single income household with a “shot and a beer” father who stopped into a bar like Moe’s Tavern for his Boilermaker.

    As for Seth MacFarlane, creator of the other two shows you mention, who knows?

  111. @John Redcorn
    I think somewhat higher density is good too but Steve disagrees.

    But there IS a middle ground between the low density of San Fernando Valley and the housing of Blade Runner.

    Finding that middle ground might be better than longing for the lost world of California in the 1960's which great as it might have been is gone now and not going to come back.

    Yes, I believe there will be some “middle ground” or “golden mean” in population density.

    For example, I would advocate population density of 19th century, bourgeois English housing, in suburbs like Primrose Hill in London – this is close to ideal.

    At this population density – the suburb is not Bladerunner, but it avoids souless atmosphere of American suburbs and results in community events.

    • Replies: @John Redcorn
    What (if any) American suburbs would you regard as close to this ideal?
  112. Perhaps a more grounded comparison to reality would be Hank Hill from King of the Hill. They live in a Dallas suburb and Hank is a propane salesman with exterminator/news anchor neighbors. It does really seem to show how far the American dream has fallen when underclass tv families from the 80s/90s look like they live like royalty. Of course, it may be kinda like how the Friends cast could never have afforded their apartment.

  113. @Richard P

    Land is *relatively* cheap, but utilities and roads are not.
     
    You can avoid paying for utilities as I do in a remote area of the Rockies. I live a fully self-sufficient lifestyle on unincorporated land. My set-up is minimalist and inexpensive -- and is located in a stunning area.

    Electricity is derived from a single solar panel and a backup generator. Water is stored in a tank. Fully organic septic system. No taxes on the land as it's unincorporated. No TV or unnecessary appliances. Mostly raw, organic diet and I dehydrate wild game and wild caught fish. Hand wash all of my clothes as they're Merino wool or made from organic cotton and hemp. Self-employed and work worldwide as a contractor. Exceptional living for less than $20,000 in total start up costs.

    It's mind boggling to me how people are enslaved to consumerism and materialism. It's a sign of insecurity and degeneracy -- nobody needs a several thousand square foot home.

    Fascinating.

    It looks like you are online.

    Do you have a blog or something that describes how you have done what you do?

  114. @Dmitry
    Yes, I believe there will be some "middle ground" or "golden mean" in population density.

    For example, I would advocate population density of 19th century, bourgeois English housing, in suburbs like Primrose Hill in London - this is close to ideal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efud5gJ9YV8

    At this population density - the suburb is not Bladerunner, but it avoids souless atmosphere of American suburbs and results in community events.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF3iTyWIWGs

    What (if any) American suburbs would you regard as close to this ideal?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.
  115. @anon
    Why do animated series insist on showing families with a single provider? Simpsons, American Dad, Family Guy show families supported by their father, while their mother is a housewife. Why was it the rule when the creators of the series were children? The Loud House apparently innovated, but in practice made a variation of the trope, showing a family supported by the mother, while the father stays at home eating horrible meals and neglecting his children. Anyway, how the huge family is sustained is inexplicable.

    Why do animated series insist on showing families with a single provider?

    For the same reason Thomas Kinkade was a painter rather than an architect. People like to see what they can never afford to have.

  116. @John Redcorn
    What (if any) American suburbs would you regard as close to this ideal?

    The nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    he nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.
     
    You can almost achieve this in Rochester, NY.

    The issues are that 1) NY property taxes are insane and 2) Rochesterians are incredibly unwelcoming to outsiders. If you didn't grow up there they don't really want you around.
    , @A123
    The biggest problem with picking a locale for optimum lifestyle is people keep moving in. 20-25 years ago I would have changed my life for the opportunity to live in Austin. Now, so many people have moved into Austin, I would be trying to get out.....

    In most of the U.S., commuter rail is ineffective. Plan on having a vehicle and you can live "Civilization Adjacent" with low cost and available services. The big trick is avoiding the downtown job, as that creates the life stealing commute.

    PEACE
    , @John Redcorn
    Yeah I have to admit as much as I like walkable towns and as much as I see intellectually the argument that higher densities should lead to lower real estate prices, it's very hard to see many examples of this working out in practice.

    The places that the higher density folks point out as livable alternatives to sprawly soulless suburbs (like Primrose Hill in London) tend to be wickedly expensive.

    It would be nice if they could point to a single example of a really expensive low density suburb that became still nice but more affordable as it became more dense.
  117. @countenance
    I can do you one better, in fact, in the real world:

    About two years ago, Lucille Ball's first house in West Hollywood went on the market for $1.75 million. 1874 sf.

    At first I guessed that that $1.75m price is at least somewhat inflated for the fact that Lucille Ball once lived there, but I then looked up for sale listings on Zillow for West Hollywood, and that is very much a typical price for that square footage.

    What does this mean?

    In 1933, a 22-year old rookie B-picture contract player could afford that house in that place. Could a 22-year old rookie B-picture contract player afford that house in that place today?

    About two years ago, Lucille Ball’s first house in West Hollywood went on the market for $1.75 million. 1874 sf.

    Lucille Ball’s first house anywhere:

    Back then it was 60 Stewart Avenue but today you’ll find the very first home of Lucille Ball at 69 Stewart Avenue in Jamestown.

    Assessed at $67,000 since 2007. Before that, at $15,290. Why the quantum leap?

    http://app.co.chautauqua.ny.us/cctaxonline/#view/060800-387.09-4-62/history

    Her second:

    Only a few minutes west of Jamestown’s center, you’ll find the home where Lucy spent most of her childhood at 59 Lucy Lane in Celeron. The home was most recently purchased via an eBay auction in 2002 for $98,500.

    Pictures of both houses here:

    https://exploringupstate.com/lucille-ball-tour-jamestown/

  118. …an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city.

    Most of the residential property whereof, and sometimes the downtown, having been built by the railroad itself. That’s why the station is so perfectly placed– it was there first.

    The classic case of this is London, where the Metropolitan Railway wangled an exemption to a law prohibiting railroad investment in real estate. Their excuse was that it was unavoidable in a suburban context, and, after all, they were just a little railway…

    They lied, but London is the better off for it.

  119. forget all that, Dwight managed to buy and payoff his 80 acre beet farm, and then buy the building he worked in as a paper salesmen.

  120. @Steve Sailer
    The nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.

    he nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.

    You can almost achieve this in Rochester, NY.

    The issues are that 1) NY property taxes are insane and 2) Rochesterians are incredibly unwelcoming to outsiders. If you didn’t grow up there they don’t really want you around.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    You understand that Kodak isn't what it used to be?
    , @Dan Hayes
    The Wild Geese Howard:

    What about race relations or lack of same in bucolic Rochester?

    During the Rockefeller years Rochester had some big-time race riots. Has Rochester in the interim managed to keep their black underclass under lock & key?

    , @Anon87
    #2 surprises me. Did you have some bad experiences? Could you elaborate?
  121. @Altai
    You'd think the fact that the likes of Farage incidentally becoming the most strident voice for the unheard interests and voice of the English working class would cause some political soul-searching but no, they just pretend that he is 'running a playbook' and 'lying'. Sad.

    Very true.
    The self appointed left is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

    • Replies: @Altai
    I mean, maybe having nobody embrace him as he was left in the wilderness and apart from society may have made Farage more appreciative to the working classes, but I feel somebody like him can't ever stop embodying that particular attitude.

    That's what makes it so infuriating, the likes of Farage or Trump shouldn't be successful as populists because they really aren't yet their monopoly of this one issue of immigration control grants them enormous benefits, imagine if somebody merged Bernie's platform with Trump's pugnacious attitude and immigration controls... Albeit immigration controls Bernie would likely agree with as we see too with Corbyn's acknowledgement of the problems of EU immigration and his french-sitting attitude to Brexit as compared with the histrionics of the rest of his party. But both men don't make it a primary issue despite their comments on the issue. The centre-left parties simply can't accommodate that attitude anymore.
  122. @Steve Sailer
    The nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.

    The biggest problem with picking a locale for optimum lifestyle is people keep moving in. 20-25 years ago I would have changed my life for the opportunity to live in Austin. Now, so many people have moved into Austin, I would be trying to get out…..

    In most of the U.S., commuter rail is ineffective. Plan on having a vehicle and you can live “Civilization Adjacent” with low cost and available services. The big trick is avoiding the downtown job, as that creates the life stealing commute.

    PEACE

  123. @Steve2
    I trained my Indian offshore replacements at a tier-1 automotive supplier. I then got a contract job at a big automotive OEM, fixed their shit code that didn’t work that no one would use and then trained my Chinese H1-B replacement. At my last job, there were no native born left in my rather large group after I was replaced. We the people of the US have already lost. We have been replaced, intentionally, by people motivated by a false hope of short term monetary gain, as well as spite and hatred.

    Steve2:

    Truly disheartening and this very day Senator Mike Lee is doing his utmost to make the problem of unfettered techie immigration even worse. To all, say hello to your new subcontinent overlords.

  124. @Steve Sailer
    The nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.

    Yeah I have to admit as much as I like walkable towns and as much as I see intellectually the argument that higher densities should lead to lower real estate prices, it’s very hard to see many examples of this working out in practice.

    The places that the higher density folks point out as livable alternatives to sprawly soulless suburbs (like Primrose Hill in London) tend to be wickedly expensive.

    It would be nice if they could point to a single example of a really expensive low density suburb that became still nice but more affordable as it became more dense.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In Chicago, it was explained to me 25 years ago that housing prices in the suburbs decline consistently from due north (e.g., Lake Forest) counter clockwise to the southeast (Gary, IN). There are spikes of higher prices along the way where the the commuter rail lines radiate out from downtown. It's nice to live within walking distance of a train station (e.g., Park Ridge in the Northwest).
    , @Dmitry
    Yes those beautiful housing districts of London - or even economically successful parts of South England generally - have prices equivalent of central Tokyo.

    That is not something against 19th century Englishmen's style of planning and construction of their bourgeois districts. High price of these areas, is symptom of how desirable the districts are today - which reflects how intelligently they were originally designed.

    The cost of labour and artisan skills were also much lower in the 19th century than today, and it would be unaffordable to to build houses with those designs now. But other aspects of the city planning (density, housing format) could be emulated.


    It would be nice if they could point to a single example of a really expensive low density suburb that became still nice but more affordable as it became more dense.

     

    It would be unlikely if it would become more affordable, while still being so nice.

    But there are many examples of conjunction of nice and affordable, medium density areas in cities in non-island parts of Europe. Price in those places is affordable, because unlike London in those cities there are not many high salary jobs, or inflow of international rich buyers.

  125. @Daniel H
    Most of those Tienaneman square “refugees” would have flattened that lone protestor standing in front of the tank in a heartbeat. They would have floored the accelerator on tha tank, and squish. The dude was getting in the way of business and making China look bad.

    Daniel H:

    I was surprised to recently learn that no one was killed at Tienaneman Square! The carnage occurred in other neighborhoods as part of the general unrest.

  126. @John Redcorn
    Yeah I have to admit as much as I like walkable towns and as much as I see intellectually the argument that higher densities should lead to lower real estate prices, it's very hard to see many examples of this working out in practice.

    The places that the higher density folks point out as livable alternatives to sprawly soulless suburbs (like Primrose Hill in London) tend to be wickedly expensive.

    It would be nice if they could point to a single example of a really expensive low density suburb that became still nice but more affordable as it became more dense.

    In Chicago, it was explained to me 25 years ago that housing prices in the suburbs decline consistently from due north (e.g., Lake Forest) counter clockwise to the southeast (Gary, IN). There are spikes of higher prices along the way where the the commuter rail lines radiate out from downtown. It’s nice to live within walking distance of a train station (e.g., Park Ridge in the Northwest).

  127. @Reg Cæsar

    What is the point of continuing to live at 103?
     
    Elliott Carter was still composing when he died at 103. Possibly on the same day.

    Irving Berlin also wrote nearly to the end. He lived to 101. Irving Caesar (no relation, to Berlin or to me) seemed to aim to beat his fellow songwriter; he lived a few months longer.

    100 can be a milestone. Bob Hope was determined to reach that because he had a relative who just missed it. As a child back in England, he even knew a woman who was born before Lincoln and Darwin.

    Hope's 90th birthday special was embarrassing. He flubbed some lines which were then clumsily dubbed in later. So he wasn't presentable in his 90s. On the other hand, character actor Charles Lane announced at his 100th birthday celebration, "I'm still available!"

    Strom Thurmond at 100 was likely of more value to his colleagues than Cal Ripken Jr was at the end of his (bogus) streak.

    Why was the streak bogus? You talking the Kevin Costner nonsense?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Why was the streak bogus? You talking the Kevin Costner nonsense?
     
    Were it interrupted only by lockouts, I'd give him credit for it. Strikes are different-- the players are benching themselves. Perhaps had Ripken voted against those, he might have a case. But his support was quite vocal.

    Gehrig and Kinugasa played every game scheduled.

    Another issue is whether keeping an appearance streak alive is worth substandard play. Bill James called Ripken out for this, but it might apply to the other two as well.
  128. @Art Deco
    (Grandpa: “I snitched on everybody and got off scot-free!”) T

    OT

    That's approximately what Herbert Stempel did. Charles van Doren was dismissed from his job and never worked in academe again. He landed a position at Encyclopedia Britannica on the patronage of Mortimer Adler (a family friend) and remained there until he retired. More than 35 years years later, the odious Robert Redford sees fit to hang him out to dry in a feature film.

    I didn’t realize that van Doren died this past April. As for (((Stempel))), he is still alive at 92.

  129. @The Wild Geese Howard

    he nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.
     
    You can almost achieve this in Rochester, NY.

    The issues are that 1) NY property taxes are insane and 2) Rochesterians are incredibly unwelcoming to outsiders. If you didn't grow up there they don't really want you around.

    You understand that Kodak isn’t what it used to be?

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    You understand that Kodak isn’t what it used to be?
     
    Yup.

    But the folks who grew up there don't.

    Normal people would have realized that the local universities like the University of Rochester and RIT have somewhat filled the void left by Kodak and moved on.
  130. @John Redcorn
    Good question. It has to do most likely with the facts that

    1. this is the cultural memory of the baby-boomers who did most of the writing, creation and production for these shows.

    2. for many elite TV producers, single income families are still feasible.

    That said, many family shows done in the 80's and since have featured wives working outside the home. (Family Ties, Roseanne, Everybody Loves Raymond etc--and of course Modern Family)

    wives working outside the home. (Family Ties, Roseanne, Everybody Loves Raymond etc–and of course Modern Family)

    On Everybody Loves Raymond, Debra attempted to get a job in advertising and was fired on her first day. On Modern Family, Claire didn’t work until after her kids graduated high school and she was set up with a cushy job in her father’s business. Gloria didn’t work at all.

  131. @Prester John
    Wonder how many of 'em are surnamed "Patel" or "Singh"?

    Wonder how many of ’em are surnamed “Patel” or “Singh”?

    I don’t know about the Patels, but the Singh’s are a mixed bag. Sikhs in general are no better off economically than whites and many are relegated to driving cabs and working in mini-marts for their brother-in-law.

  132. In the Communist Simpsons, his house is provided by the Party.

  133. @Danindc
    Why was the streak bogus? You talking the Kevin Costner nonsense?

    Why was the streak bogus? You talking the Kevin Costner nonsense?

    Were it interrupted only by lockouts, I’d give him credit for it. Strikes are different– the players are benching themselves. Perhaps had Ripken voted against those, he might have a case. But his support was quite vocal.

    Gehrig and Kinugasa played every game scheduled.

    Another issue is whether keeping an appearance streak alive is worth substandard play. Bill James called Ripken out for this, but it might apply to the other two as well.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Maybe so but hard to blame him for a league-wide strike. Fair enough though. Great guy though. Need more athletes like him.
  134. @ScarletNumber
    You understand that Kodak isn't what it used to be?

    You understand that Kodak isn’t what it used to be?

    Yup.

    But the folks who grew up there don’t.

    Normal people would have realized that the local universities like the University of Rochester and RIT have somewhat filled the void left by Kodak and moved on.

  135. @Dieter Kief
    The oldest part of Konstanz sits on the Swiss (=left) side of the Rhine but is (mostly) German. The Castle you linked to is sure nice, but - old looks like there'd be much work waiting for a new owner and - - - it is situated in French Nowhereland. The middle of France, roughly spoken is, where they close villages. - People - die, kill themselves, drink (and die after some time) and the rest moves out, hardly anybody wants to live there any longer. Very nice to hike and ride the bike, especially in the summer time. The Massive Central and the upper Loire region including Le Puy and western Bourgogne and... are all very beautiful and scenic and - - - - empty. Not compared to Idaho or Montana, but compared to the Black Forest or to the Swiss Jura...

    In Submission, Houellebecq describes the preservation of French villages — and a simulacrum of French village life — as a ploy of the tourist industry necessary to lure the new waves of Chinese middle-class travelers.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    There are French intellectuals who understand what's going on in (fly-over) douce France. What happens even to the farmers there and the bakers and craftspeople etc.

    Michel Houellebecq saw the Yellow Vest-protest coming in his latest novel Sérotonine - (the title hinting at - - - Jordan B. Peterson's famous sérotinine-lobster).
    , @Dmitry
    Currently, provincial tourist cities in France, still seem a lot more Russian than Chinese. For example, in Deauville, or even (cheaper) Honfleur - in the summer, maybe 1/3 of summer tourists are Russian, at least in the last decade.

    As for "dying rural France" - it's interesting that in Spain the equivalent areas do not seem to be dying. I believe it is because city people of Spain still own their family house in the country village (when rural Spanish families, immigrated to the city in the 20th century, the family did not normally sell their houses in the village).

  136. @WowJustWow
    Any relation to Springfield’s Mayor Quimby?

    Any relation to Springfield’s Mayor Quimby?

    I wouldn’t put it past them at all. After all, Ned Flanders got his name from a street in Portland. They did an episode called “Rosebud”, obviously a Citizen Kane parody, but the Portland Rosebuds were also the first U.S.-based team to go to the Stanley Cup Final.

    Portland is all over the Simpsons, or vice versa:

    https://www.travelportland.com/article/simpsons/
    https://www.oregonlive.com/movies/2012/05/the_simpsons_map_of_portland_w.html

    This is Ramona Quimby’s statue in Portland’s Grant Park, a short walk from Klikitat Street:

  137. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes
    Agree totally. Last year, a retired botany professor called David Goodall, had himself killed in a Swiss clinic. He couldn't do so legally in Australia, because the government thinks it owns us; he wasn't concerned for himself, but for the threat of a decade of imprisonment for anyone who helped him.

    He had previously indicated his desire to do so a year or so previously, on a TV show called "You Can't Ask That", where he and several other centenarians were asked a bunch of viewer questions. Goodall wasn't infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ' losing' three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).

    There's nothing wrong whatsoever if someone decides they've had enough: it's the ultimate expression of self-ownership. Like any sound idea, that gets messy: if a 12 year old decides to off themselves, does anyone get to intervene? Of course they do - family and friends have every right to try to change the person's mind, whatever their age... but government has no moral right to intervene.

    And of course people who know they're in terminal decline (Parkinsons, Alzheimers, MND, etc) kill themselves all the time: however each of those degenerative illnesses also has a massive grift attached to it, where people at the top of advocacy organisations are on half a million bucks a year... would't do to recognise, let alone endorse, people's right to self-terminate.

    Goodall wasn’t infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ‘ losing’ three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).

    I’d want to know if cervical or other female cancers were involved. It’s known some men secrete a very carcinogenic agent in their sperm and they will lose two or three wives from the same cause. It’s also why very promiscuous women have much higher rates of these cancers. If any one of those guys is one of these the danger of getting these cancers is much higher.

    As I recall James Dougherty, the retired LA cop who married the future Marilyn Monroe in 1942, lost both of the other two wives he’d had to these cancers. From what he said in interviews and what Monroe allegedly told friends, he always used condoms with her because he didn’t want to leave her with a baby if he got killed while serving in the Merchant Marine during the war. Maybe she dodged a big bullet there….she was autopsied t 36 and there was no cancer found, but I don’t know what the time factor involved is between exposure and generating a noticeable malignancy.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    As I recall James Dougherty, the retired LA cop who married the future Marilyn Monroe in 1942, lost both of the other two wives he’d had to these cancers. From what he said in interviews and what Monroe allegedly told friends, he always used condoms with her because he didn’t want to leave her with a baby if he got killed while serving in the Merchant Marine during the war.

    James Dougherty was one of the main participants behind the creation of the LAPD's (and the nation's) first SWAT team.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    I’d want to know if cervical or other female cancers were involved. It’s known some men secrete a very carcinogenic agent in their sperm and they will lose two or three wives from the same cause.
     
    Charlemagne?

    This sounds awfully dysgenic. Is it a double-edged sword, like the sickle cell gene?
  138. @Altai
    There's also the way Ned Flanders' conscientiousness at Church was just another manifestation of his general character trait of niceness, conscientiousness and showing up Homer infront of his family in public by comparison. The joke being that Homer has no good reason to hate Ned personally, he hated him for making him look bad. Now he is a religious extremist who casually makes bigoted remarks and whose religiosity is his primary trait.

    The nature of religion is perhaps the area where day to day middle class life has changed the most. Remember the episode which revolved around Homer's deciding not to go to church one Sunday? (Where realistically the conscientious women of the family are concerned but Bart thinks it's funny?) 30 years ago the most subversive show on TV maintained the single-income family unit going to church every Sunday with episodes which took religious morality seriously. (Homer Steals and the one where he doesn't go to church) It's some cultural whiplash.

    The Simpsons still go to church but it feels weird that a middle class (Regardless of what their social-economic status should be) mainline protestant family outside the South still go every Sunday and that attendance is so high. Actually considering the rate at which they are running out of ideas, why hasn't that been a modern episode? I know there was one where Lovejoy was despondent over everyone joining a cult and a more recent one where he just got tired of Springfield and left with Homer and the men converting the church, into a place for debauchery and then suffered god's wrath, but they weren't dealing with a real world issue of declining religious attendance.

    The changing of Ned Flanders was so obvious and adopted by so many other shows that the term Flanderization was invented for the concept.

  139. @The Wild Geese Howard

    he nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.
     
    You can almost achieve this in Rochester, NY.

    The issues are that 1) NY property taxes are insane and 2) Rochesterians are incredibly unwelcoming to outsiders. If you didn't grow up there they don't really want you around.

    The Wild Geese Howard:

    What about race relations or lack of same in bucolic Rochester?

    During the Rockefeller years Rochester had some big-time race riots. Has Rochester in the interim managed to keep their black underclass under lock & key?

    • Replies: @Anon87
    Riots led to white flight, like all other cities. The west side of the city is becoming trashier as old Kodak suburbs clear out and "city residents" move in to the now distressed property. The weekly police blotter for Greece gets longer and longer all the time. The east side suburbs are more posh, with the expected demographics.

    Downtown is still mostly dead at night, as most people drive back to the burbs. There are attempts at gentrification, but unless more are pushed out there is no chance for real revitalization. Allegedly empty nesters are selling their huge suburban houses and moving into the insanely expensive lofts popping up in faded glory buildings downtown.

    If you leave the inner ring downtown and head east, it's Fort Apache. Just past that, before you hit the east 'burbs, is one of the hottest housing zip codes in the country; 14609. Great starter homes, but even those have jumped from $80-100k to $120-150 in a very short time.
  140. @Reg Cæsar

    Why was the streak bogus? You talking the Kevin Costner nonsense?
     
    Were it interrupted only by lockouts, I'd give him credit for it. Strikes are different-- the players are benching themselves. Perhaps had Ripken voted against those, he might have a case. But his support was quite vocal.

    Gehrig and Kinugasa played every game scheduled.

    Another issue is whether keeping an appearance streak alive is worth substandard play. Bill James called Ripken out for this, but it might apply to the other two as well.

    Maybe so but hard to blame him for a league-wide strike. Fair enough though. Great guy though. Need more athletes like him.

  141. @black sea
    In Submission, Houellebecq describes the preservation of French villages -- and a simulacrum of French village life -- as a ploy of the tourist industry necessary to lure the new waves of Chinese middle-class travelers.

    There are French intellectuals who understand what’s going on in (fly-over) douce France. What happens even to the farmers there and the bakers and craftspeople etc.

    Michel Houellebecq saw the Yellow Vest-protest coming in his latest novel Sérotonine – (the title hinting at – – – Jordan B. Peterson’s famous sérotinine-lobster).

  142. @byrresheim
    Very true.
    The self appointed left is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

    I mean, maybe having nobody embrace him as he was left in the wilderness and apart from society may have made Farage more appreciative to the working classes, but I feel somebody like him can’t ever stop embodying that particular attitude.

    That’s what makes it so infuriating, the likes of Farage or Trump shouldn’t be successful as populists because they really aren’t yet their monopoly of this one issue of immigration control grants them enormous benefits, imagine if somebody merged Bernie’s platform with Trump’s pugnacious attitude and immigration controls… Albeit immigration controls Bernie would likely agree with as we see too with Corbyn’s acknowledgement of the problems of EU immigration and his french-sitting attitude to Brexit as compared with the histrionics of the rest of his party. But both men don’t make it a primary issue despite their comments on the issue. The centre-left parties simply can’t accommodate that attitude anymore.

  143. @istevefan

    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrat
     
    I didn't write 'screw over'. I wrote openly hate. There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites. Even Steve has on several occasions described their strategy as stirring up White racial animus to keep the coalition of the fringes together. Or to use his term the KKKrazy glue.

    As for democrats being for workers, that might be true if you consider workers that aren't American. These are not Harry Truman democrats any more.

    “There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites.”

    That is Fake News.

    “Even Steve has on several occasions described their strategy as stirring up White racial animus to keep the coalition of the fringes together. Or to use his term the KKKrazy glue.”

    You mean the strategy by the Alt Right and Radical Leftists.

    “As for democrats being for workers, that might be true if you consider workers that aren’t American.”

    You mean workers who are citizens of the United States.

    “If only we had leadership that went for the jugular like the Left.”

    OK, you take the lead. You are supposedly white and have an alleged high IQ. The stage is yours…

  144. @John Redcorn
    Yeah I have to admit as much as I like walkable towns and as much as I see intellectually the argument that higher densities should lead to lower real estate prices, it's very hard to see many examples of this working out in practice.

    The places that the higher density folks point out as livable alternatives to sprawly soulless suburbs (like Primrose Hill in London) tend to be wickedly expensive.

    It would be nice if they could point to a single example of a really expensive low density suburb that became still nice but more affordable as it became more dense.

    Yes those beautiful housing districts of London – or even economically successful parts of South England generally – have prices equivalent of central Tokyo.

    That is not something against 19th century Englishmen’s style of planning and construction of their bourgeois districts. High price of these areas, is symptom of how desirable the districts are today – which reflects how intelligently they were originally designed.

    The cost of labour and artisan skills were also much lower in the 19th century than today, and it would be unaffordable to to build houses with those designs now. But other aspects of the city planning (density, housing format) could be emulated.

    It would be nice if they could point to a single example of a really expensive low density suburb that became still nice but more affordable as it became more dense.

    It would be unlikely if it would become more affordable, while still being so nice.

    But there are many examples of conjunction of nice and affordable, medium density areas in cities in non-island parts of Europe. Price in those places is affordable, because unlike London in those cities there are not many high salary jobs, or inflow of international rich buyers.

  145. @black sea
    In Submission, Houellebecq describes the preservation of French villages -- and a simulacrum of French village life -- as a ploy of the tourist industry necessary to lure the new waves of Chinese middle-class travelers.

    Currently, provincial tourist cities in France, still seem a lot more Russian than Chinese. For example, in Deauville, or even (cheaper) Honfleur – in the summer, maybe 1/3 of summer tourists are Russian, at least in the last decade.

    As for “dying rural France” – it’s interesting that in Spain the equivalent areas do not seem to be dying. I believe it is because city people of Spain still own their family house in the country village (when rural Spanish families, immigrated to the city in the 20th century, the family did not normally sell their houses in the village).

  146. @Anonymous

    Goodall wasn’t infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ‘ losing’ three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).
     
    I'd want to know if cervical or other female cancers were involved. It's known some men secrete a very carcinogenic agent in their sperm and they will lose two or three wives from the same cause. It's also why very promiscuous women have much higher rates of these cancers. If any one of those guys is one of these the danger of getting these cancers is much higher.


    As I recall James Dougherty, the retired LA cop who married the future Marilyn Monroe in 1942, lost both of the other two wives he'd had to these cancers. From what he said in interviews and what Monroe allegedly told friends, he always used condoms with her because he didn't want to leave her with a baby if he got killed while serving in the Merchant Marine during the war. Maybe she dodged a big bullet there....she was autopsied t 36 and there was no cancer found, but I don't know what the time factor involved is between exposure and generating a noticeable malignancy.

    As I recall James Dougherty, the retired LA cop who married the future Marilyn Monroe in 1942, lost both of the other two wives he’d had to these cancers. From what he said in interviews and what Monroe allegedly told friends, he always used condoms with her because he didn’t want to leave her with a baby if he got killed while serving in the Merchant Marine during the war.

    James Dougherty was one of the main participants behind the creation of the LAPD’s (and the nation’s) first SWAT team.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    He was a remarkable and decent man. But was he the reason those women got their cancers-and had she not died young would Monroe have wound up joining them? We will never know.

    I don’t know if there is even a test to find out if a man’s semen has this carcinogenic agent.
  147. Anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @prosa123
    As I recall James Dougherty, the retired LA cop who married the future Marilyn Monroe in 1942, lost both of the other two wives he’d had to these cancers. From what he said in interviews and what Monroe allegedly told friends, he always used condoms with her because he didn’t want to leave her with a baby if he got killed while serving in the Merchant Marine during the war.

    James Dougherty was one of the main participants behind the creation of the LAPD's (and the nation's) first SWAT team.

    He was a remarkable and decent man. But was he the reason those women got their cancers-and had she not died young would Monroe have wound up joining them? We will never know.

    I don’t know if there is even a test to find out if a man’s semen has this carcinogenic agent.

  148. Grimes’s rant in this ain’t wrong, it reminds me precisely how younger generations feel about the effortlessness of Boomer wealth and life trajectories

  149. @Kratoklastes
    Agree totally. Last year, a retired botany professor called David Goodall, had himself killed in a Swiss clinic. He couldn't do so legally in Australia, because the government thinks it owns us; he wasn't concerned for himself, but for the threat of a decade of imprisonment for anyone who helped him.

    He had previously indicated his desire to do so a year or so previously, on a TV show called "You Can't Ask That", where he and several other centenarians were asked a bunch of viewer questions. Goodall wasn't infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ' losing' three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).

    There's nothing wrong whatsoever if someone decides they've had enough: it's the ultimate expression of self-ownership. Like any sound idea, that gets messy: if a 12 year old decides to off themselves, does anyone get to intervene? Of course they do - family and friends have every right to try to change the person's mind, whatever their age... but government has no moral right to intervene.

    And of course people who know they're in terminal decline (Parkinsons, Alzheimers, MND, etc) kill themselves all the time: however each of those degenerative illnesses also has a massive grift attached to it, where people at the top of advocacy organisations are on half a million bucks a year... would't do to recognise, let alone endorse, people's right to self-terminate.

    Of course they do – family and friends have every right to try to change the person’s mind, whatever their age… but government has no moral right to intervene

    You’re not one of those common commenters who tear down libertarians as fools and/or knaves, then turn around and make a libertarian-sounding argument on a pet issue for convenience?

    We need bumper stickers that say, “But I’m pro-choice on everything else. How about you?”

    I helped my church distribute donated clothing after a major flood. One kid’s shirt read, in a rainbow of colors,

    CHOICE
    CHOICE
    CHOICE
    CHOICE

    I asked a fellow volunteer if this was an appropriate item for a Catholic clothing drive. He said yes, if it were about schools.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes

    You’re not one of those common commenters who tear down libertarians as fools and/or knaves, then turn around and make a libertarian-sounding argument on a pet issue for convenience?
     
    I don't believe so - I'm not sure what type of 'libertarian' you have in mind, but my libertarianism is of a type with A.J. Nock, Murray Rothbard, and Lysander Spooner: i.e., a rejection of three key assertions about State power:
    ① that it is morally legitimate;
    ② that it has, as its core aim, the improvement of 'social welfare'; and
    ③ that the aims validly part of ② are possible to achieve by central planning.

    I would go significantly further: that even if the aims that satisfy ② were the actual aims of States, and even if State institutions did nothing other than attempt to fulfil those aims at least-cost... the dynamic consequences are still welfare-reducing on net, because government has built within it, the seeds of its own "failure"[1].

    Government-induced misallocation of resources generates deadweight losses that are at least an order of magnitude greater than the deadweight losses caused by purely voluntary exchange. Government failure is worse than market failure: it's the equivalent of trying to fix a cold by infecting the patient with Ebola.

    [1] Failure is in scare-quotes because it implies that governments genuinely seek to fulfil ② but somehow come up short. That's a silly view of how things work. In fact, governments rarely fail to fulfil their actual objectives - viz., to enrich themselves and their cronies.

    I agree with Robert Higgs on this: there's no such thing as a 'failed policy' when the actual aims are properly understood: even the F35 PilotKiller is a roaring success... it's way over budget (tick! moolah for the Tödeskrameren), fails to fulfil its spec (irrelevant), and obsolete before a fully-working version is released (irrelevant).
  150. @Anonymous

    Goodall wasn’t infirm, but it had been about 30 years since he lost his third wife; his children and gradchildren were adults, and he had just had enough. (Frankly, ‘ losing’ three wives sounds like carelessness; just how hard did he look for them? HAIL KEK).
     
    I'd want to know if cervical or other female cancers were involved. It's known some men secrete a very carcinogenic agent in their sperm and they will lose two or three wives from the same cause. It's also why very promiscuous women have much higher rates of these cancers. If any one of those guys is one of these the danger of getting these cancers is much higher.


    As I recall James Dougherty, the retired LA cop who married the future Marilyn Monroe in 1942, lost both of the other two wives he'd had to these cancers. From what he said in interviews and what Monroe allegedly told friends, he always used condoms with her because he didn't want to leave her with a baby if he got killed while serving in the Merchant Marine during the war. Maybe she dodged a big bullet there....she was autopsied t 36 and there was no cancer found, but I don't know what the time factor involved is between exposure and generating a noticeable malignancy.

    I’d want to know if cervical or other female cancers were involved. It’s known some men secrete a very carcinogenic agent in their sperm and they will lose two or three wives from the same cause.

    Charlemagne?

    This sounds awfully dysgenic. Is it a double-edged sword, like the sickle cell gene?

  151. @Reg Cæsar

    Springfield is supposed to be modeled on Groening’s hometown of Portland, Ore., so perhaps that’s where you should be comparing home prices.
     
    Could Ramona's Quimbys afford their post-war house on Klickitat Street today? Her father lost his job in one of those books.

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever. Ramona's creator Beverly Cleary once said she expected to live to 80. She's now 103 1/2.

    Well, at least she's got Ramona's royalties. Mrs Cleary's in a California retirement home today. I wonder who's "nursing" her now.

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever.

    Wut?

    US Life Expectancy Dropped Again, Fortune (2018 — 2017 data)

    CDC data

    Age-adjusted death rates increased in 2017 from 2016 for non-Hispanic white males (0.6%) and non-Hispanic white females (0.9%). The age-adjusted death rate decreased for non-Hispanic black females (0.8%). Rates did not change significantly for non-Hispanic black males, Hispanic males, and Hispanic females from 2016 to 2017.

    2014 data

    Increases in death rates due to unintentional injuries, suicide, and chronic liver disease were large enough to increase all-cause non-Hispanic white death rates for ages 25–34, 35–44, and 45–54.

    And of course, death rates for middle-aged whites have been increasing since 1998 or so — that’s largely what’s driving the overall decrease in life expectancy:

    While midlife mortality continued to fall in other rich countries, and in other racial and ethnic groups in the US, white non-Hispanic mortality rates for those aged 45-54 increased from 1998 through 2013. Mortality declines from the two biggest killers in middle age — cancer and heart disease — were offset by marked increases in drug overdoses, suicides, and alcohol-related liver mortality in this period. By 2014, rising mortality in midlife, led by these “deaths of despair,” was large enough to offset mortality gains for children and the elderly (Kochanek, Arias, and Bastian 2016), leading to a decline in life expectancy at birth among white non-Hispanics between 2013 and 2014 (Arias 2016), and a decline in overall life expectancy in the US between 2014 and 2015 (Xu et al 2016).

    Graph of all-cause mortality, ages 45–54 for U.S. white non-Hispanics (USW), US Hispanics (USH), and six comparison countries from late 1980s-2013

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    The divergence in the late 90s happens at about the time expected after the first major fuckup in dietary guidelines (in 1977). It takes quite along time for the effects of a systematic shift of macronutrients in the wrong direction, to wreak its eventual havoc on the body.

    1977 - US Government's botched, rushed, panicky "Dietary Goals for the United States" sought to target the wrong things (particularly cholesterol, which is absolutely essential for cell repair FFS).

    1997 - US citizens started dying from diabesity-related shit at rates significantly higher than the rest of the developed world.

    .

    Not that it matters: the actual aim of the policies that stemmed from 'Goals' was the expansion of subsidies to major US agricultural corporates in Wheat-Belt states.

    So the policy was a resounding success - some irrelevant folks got fat and sick and dead as a by-product, but if you're making omelettes for your cronies, you gotta break some eggs.
  152. @istevefan

    No. Both parties screw over all sorts of Americans.

    I vote for Democrat
     
    I didn't write 'screw over'. I wrote openly hate. There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites. Even Steve has on several occasions described their strategy as stirring up White racial animus to keep the coalition of the fringes together. Or to use his term the KKKrazy glue.

    As for democrats being for workers, that might be true if you consider workers that aren't American. These are not Harry Truman democrats any more.

    There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites.

    Obviously. But the GOP covertly hates whites.

    • Replies: @istevefan

    Obviously. But the GOP covertly hates whites.
     
    I don't think so. Perhaps the neocons do, but I think most members of the GOP don't hate Whites. Their problem is they are too afraid to advocate on behalf of White voters. Which of course is part of the problem of the current GOP. They are too afraid to fight, and thus have failed to conserve anything in our society. Outside of standing up for Israel, the GOP caves on pretty much everything.
  153. @James Forrrestal

    There is no doubt the democrats openly hate Whites.
     
    Obviously. But the GOP covertly hates whites.

    Obviously. But the GOP covertly hates whites.

    I don’t think so. Perhaps the neocons do, but I think most members of the GOP don’t hate Whites. Their problem is they are too afraid to advocate on behalf of White voters. Which of course is part of the problem of the current GOP. They are too afraid to fight, and thus have failed to conserve anything in our society. Outside of standing up for Israel, the GOP caves on pretty much everything.

  154. @Reg Cæsar

    Of course they do – family and friends have every right to try to change the person’s mind, whatever their age… but government has no moral right to intervene
     
    You're not one of those common commenters who tear down libertarians as fools and/or knaves, then turn around and make a libertarian-sounding argument on a pet issue for convenience?

    We need bumper stickers that say, "But I'm pro-choice on everything else. How about you?"

    I helped my church distribute donated clothing after a major flood. One kid's shirt read, in a rainbow of colors,

    CHOICE
    CHOICE
    CHOICE
    CHOICE

    I asked a fellow volunteer if this was an appropriate item for a Catholic clothing drive. He said yes, if it were about schools.

    You’re not one of those common commenters who tear down libertarians as fools and/or knaves, then turn around and make a libertarian-sounding argument on a pet issue for convenience?

    I don’t believe so – I’m not sure what type of ‘libertarian’ you have in mind, but my libertarianism is of a type with A.J. Nock, Murray Rothbard, and Lysander Spooner: i.e., a rejection of three key assertions about State power:
    ① that it is morally legitimate;
    ② that it has, as its core aim, the improvement of ‘social welfare’; and
    ③ that the aims validly part of ② are possible to achieve by central planning.

    I would go significantly further: that even if the aims that satisfy ② were the actual aims of States, and even if State institutions did nothing other than attempt to fulfil those aims at least-cost… the dynamic consequences are still welfare-reducing on net, because government has built within it, the seeds of its own “failure”[1].

    Government-induced misallocation of resources generates deadweight losses that are at least an order of magnitude greater than the deadweight losses caused by purely voluntary exchange. Government failure is worse than market failure: it’s the equivalent of trying to fix a cold by infecting the patient with Ebola.

    [1] Failure is in scare-quotes because it implies that governments genuinely seek to fulfil ② but somehow come up short. That’s a silly view of how things work. In fact, governments rarely fail to fulfil their actual objectives – viz., to enrich themselves and their cronies.

    I agree with Robert Higgs on this: there’s no such thing as a ‘failed policy’ when the actual aims are properly understood: even the F35 PilotKiller is a roaring success… it’s way over budget (tick! moolah for the Tödeskrameren), fails to fulfil its spec (irrelevant), and obsolete before a fully-working version is released (irrelevant).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Failure is in scare-quotes
     
    Exactly. I like to tell people that Detroit-- and now Baltimore-- are successes, if you're a Democrat.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_Detroit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_City_Council#Current_members
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_City_Council#Former_members


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Miriani
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Butler_(Michigan_politician)
  155. @James Forrrestal

    In another demographic lemming-cliff, people are living much longer today than ever.
     
    Wut?

    US Life Expectancy Dropped Again, Fortune (2018 -- 2017 data)

    CDC data


    Age-adjusted death rates increased in 2017 from 2016 for non-Hispanic white males (0.6%) and non-Hispanic white females (0.9%). The age-adjusted death rate decreased for non-Hispanic black females (0.8%). Rates did not change significantly for non-Hispanic black males, Hispanic males, and Hispanic females from 2016 to 2017.
     
    2014 data

    Increases in death rates due to unintentional injuries, suicide, and chronic liver disease were large enough to increase all-cause non-Hispanic white death rates for ages 25–34, 35–44, and 45–54.
     
    And of course, death rates for middle-aged whites have been increasing since 1998 or so -- that's largely what's driving the overall decrease in life expectancy:

    While midlife mortality continued to fall in other rich countries, and in other racial and ethnic groups in the US, white non-Hispanic mortality rates for those aged 45-54 increased from 1998 through 2013. Mortality declines from the two biggest killers in middle age — cancer and heart disease — were offset by marked increases in drug overdoses, suicides, and alcohol-related liver mortality in this period. By 2014, rising mortality in midlife, led by these “deaths of despair,” was large enough to offset mortality gains for children and the elderly (Kochanek, Arias, and Bastian 2016), leading to a decline in life expectancy at birth among white non-Hispanics between 2013 and 2014 (Arias 2016), and a decline in overall life expectancy in the US between 2014 and 2015 (Xu et al 2016).
     
    Graph of all-cause mortality, ages 45–54 for U.S. white non-Hispanics (USW), US Hispanics (USH), and six comparison countries from late 1980s-2013

    The divergence in the late 90s happens at about the time expected after the first major fuckup in dietary guidelines (in 1977). It takes quite along time for the effects of a systematic shift of macronutrients in the wrong direction, to wreak its eventual havoc on the body.

    1977 – US Government’s botched, rushed, panicky “Dietary Goals for the United States” sought to target the wrong things (particularly cholesterol, which is absolutely essential for cell repair FFS).

    1997 – US citizens started dying from diabesity-related shit at rates significantly higher than the rest of the developed world.

    .

    Not that it matters: the actual aim of the policies that stemmed from ‘Goals‘ was the expansion of subsidies to major US agricultural corporates in Wheat-Belt states.

    So the policy was a resounding success – some irrelevant folks got fat and sick and dead as a by-product, but if you’re making omelettes for your cronies, you gotta break some eggs.

  156. @Kratoklastes

    You’re not one of those common commenters who tear down libertarians as fools and/or knaves, then turn around and make a libertarian-sounding argument on a pet issue for convenience?
     
    I don't believe so - I'm not sure what type of 'libertarian' you have in mind, but my libertarianism is of a type with A.J. Nock, Murray Rothbard, and Lysander Spooner: i.e., a rejection of three key assertions about State power:
    ① that it is morally legitimate;
    ② that it has, as its core aim, the improvement of 'social welfare'; and
    ③ that the aims validly part of ② are possible to achieve by central planning.

    I would go significantly further: that even if the aims that satisfy ② were the actual aims of States, and even if State institutions did nothing other than attempt to fulfil those aims at least-cost... the dynamic consequences are still welfare-reducing on net, because government has built within it, the seeds of its own "failure"[1].

    Government-induced misallocation of resources generates deadweight losses that are at least an order of magnitude greater than the deadweight losses caused by purely voluntary exchange. Government failure is worse than market failure: it's the equivalent of trying to fix a cold by infecting the patient with Ebola.

    [1] Failure is in scare-quotes because it implies that governments genuinely seek to fulfil ② but somehow come up short. That's a silly view of how things work. In fact, governments rarely fail to fulfil their actual objectives - viz., to enrich themselves and their cronies.

    I agree with Robert Higgs on this: there's no such thing as a 'failed policy' when the actual aims are properly understood: even the F35 PilotKiller is a roaring success... it's way over budget (tick! moolah for the Tödeskrameren), fails to fulfil its spec (irrelevant), and obsolete before a fully-working version is released (irrelevant).
  157. @Dan Hayes
    The Wild Geese Howard:

    What about race relations or lack of same in bucolic Rochester?

    During the Rockefeller years Rochester had some big-time race riots. Has Rochester in the interim managed to keep their black underclass under lock & key?

    Riots led to white flight, like all other cities. The west side of the city is becoming trashier as old Kodak suburbs clear out and “city residents” move in to the now distressed property. The weekly police blotter for Greece gets longer and longer all the time. The east side suburbs are more posh, with the expected demographics.

    Downtown is still mostly dead at night, as most people drive back to the burbs. There are attempts at gentrification, but unless more are pushed out there is no chance for real revitalization. Allegedly empty nesters are selling their huge suburban houses and moving into the insanely expensive lofts popping up in faded glory buildings downtown.

    If you leave the inner ring downtown and head east, it’s Fort Apache. Just past that, before you hit the east ‘burbs, is one of the hottest housing zip codes in the country; 14609. Great starter homes, but even those have jumped from $80-100k to $120-150 in a very short time.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Anon87:

    Thanks for your much appreciated response to my query.

    I fondly remember as a NYC teenager that my intelligent mulatto work supervisor favorably contrasted Rochester's prosperity and tranquility to that of NYC. How things have changed!
  158. @The Wild Geese Howard

    he nicest lifestyle is probably an upscale mature inner ring suburb with an old small downtown centered around a commuter rail connection to the big city. But those are expensive.
     
    You can almost achieve this in Rochester, NY.

    The issues are that 1) NY property taxes are insane and 2) Rochesterians are incredibly unwelcoming to outsiders. If you didn't grow up there they don't really want you around.

    #2 surprises me. Did you have some bad experiences? Could you elaborate?

  159. @Anon87
    Riots led to white flight, like all other cities. The west side of the city is becoming trashier as old Kodak suburbs clear out and "city residents" move in to the now distressed property. The weekly police blotter for Greece gets longer and longer all the time. The east side suburbs are more posh, with the expected demographics.

    Downtown is still mostly dead at night, as most people drive back to the burbs. There are attempts at gentrification, but unless more are pushed out there is no chance for real revitalization. Allegedly empty nesters are selling their huge suburban houses and moving into the insanely expensive lofts popping up in faded glory buildings downtown.

    If you leave the inner ring downtown and head east, it's Fort Apache. Just past that, before you hit the east 'burbs, is one of the hottest housing zip codes in the country; 14609. Great starter homes, but even those have jumped from $80-100k to $120-150 in a very short time.

    Anon87:

    Thanks for your much appreciated response to my query.

    I fondly remember as a NYC teenager that my intelligent mulatto work supervisor favorably contrasted Rochester’s prosperity and tranquility to that of NYC. How things have changed!

    • Replies: @Anon87
    You are welcome.

    There are a few small positive signs, but overall your old colleague would probably be shocked and depressed at Rochester's current state. I'm not sure if it will ever come back, since the decline of the Big 3 (Kodak, Xerox, and Bausch & Lomb) is too much of a hit for an area to absorb and bounce back from.
  160. @Dan Hayes
    Anon87:

    Thanks for your much appreciated response to my query.

    I fondly remember as a NYC teenager that my intelligent mulatto work supervisor favorably contrasted Rochester's prosperity and tranquility to that of NYC. How things have changed!

    You are welcome.

    There are a few small positive signs, but overall your old colleague would probably be shocked and depressed at Rochester’s current state. I’m not sure if it will ever come back, since the decline of the Big 3 (Kodak, Xerox, and Bausch & Lomb) is too much of a hit for an area to absorb and bounce back from.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
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