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How Many Publications Will Review Charles Murray's "Facing Reality?"
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My new Taki’s Magazine column reviews Charles Murray’s new book Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America, which was released yesterday.

Has anybody else reviewed it yet?

Here’s F. Roger Devlin’s review in VDARE. That appears to be about it, so far.

Generally, reviews of books by famous authors are embargoed until the official publication date (Tuesday June 15th in this case), with reviewers having already read the book by then, so reviews typically come out fast. It will be of interest whether Facing Reality gets widely reviewed like Murray’s 2012 Coming Apart, 1994 Bell Curve, and 1984 Losing Ground, or ignored like his 2020 Human Diversity and 2003 Human Accomplishment.

The physical hardback Facing Reality is small, elegant, and to the point, in part because a lot of the scholarly supporting material is relegated to the webpage at Encounter Books.

Related Resources:

Murray suggests his Violent Crime by Zip Code database might be of particular interest.

 
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  1. Reviewing a book acknowledges its existence. This answers your question.

  2. The Powers That Be have figured out that silence and distraction are the best arguments they have, so despite the great demand for bad whites to pillar the media will stay silent about this book.

  3. • Replies: @photondancer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Every book on psychology I've ever read has emphasised that it's people, not bodies or brains, that experience mental states such as depression. This tweet is bizarre. I can't work out why s/he felt the need to rephrase or what it's supposed to achieve. Is she claiming that the body is diseased while the mind (soul) remains pure and free of taint?

  4. Rosa Parks and Anne Frank replaced Columbus and Franklin long ago.

    When will Murray and friends face THAT reality and repair the damage it has done to our nation and her people?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Desiderius

    Sgt Chip is off by three orders of magnitude

    , @jorge videla
    @Desiderius

    When will Murray and friends face THAT reality and repair the damage it has done to our nation and her people?

    what nation? what people? you sound like a cuckservative. the debate is over and hitler won.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  5. Got my copy yesterday. Can’t wait to read it.

  6. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:

    There is already a hit on Drudge about it linking to The Spectator abridged story by Murray. Center Column.

    Which is somewhat surprising given Drudge’s strange political move in the last year or two.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Charles Murray like Drudge vilified Trump for 4 years and voted for Biden in 2020.

    Replies: @John Johnson

  7. That’s an interesting question, and if the implication is correct (that Murray will get politely ignored) it points out that the real targets of the hard left aren’t of the right, but of the center left. Witness the flagellation of Tom Hanks for being insufficiently woke. It’s not enough for him to bemoan the death of “300” blacks in Tulsa, he’s guilty for promoting white man heroism.

    I remember when CRT was but a gleam in Kendi’s eye a couple of years ago and there was a kerfuffle about the movie Gone With the Wine. But it died down. No one is talking about yanking the book from the shelves. It’s as if that battle isn’t worthy of left’s energy. Maybe they’ll get around to mopping up poor old Margaret Mitchell when they’ve wiped out everything else, but for now, their prime targets are the center left.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
    @Paperback Writer

    The funny thing about your comment is that Gone With the Wind is very much a Center-Left classic. You may be right that the bizarre caricature of it as "pro-Confederate" has blinded so many people that they are reasoning the way you describe. But it's still pathetic if true. Gone With the Wind was no more "pro-Confederate" than All Quiet on the Western Front was "pro-Hohenzollern." Both novels were byproducts of the post-WWI era when there was a lot of disillusionment with wars, particularly as the Great Depression seemed to show what a "world made safe for democracy" looked like.

    All Quiet on the Western Front has nothing to say about Hohenzollern Germany's imperial ambitions, such as were documented decades later by Fritz Fischer. It really just tries to give a sympathetic portrait of an average German soldier stuck in the trenches. Despite this, the German Right-wing of the 1920s were antagonistic to the author's message. It was obvious that he was not rallying people to go and die for another Kaiser or Fuehrer.

    Gone With the Wind came out much later vis a vis the American Civil War as opposed to All Quiet on the Western Front vis a vis the First World War. That is certainly part of what gave it a more friendly reception. Nobody in the South of the 1930s was trying to claim that the Confederates had only lost the war because of a stab in the back, the way that lying ideologues like Ludendorff tried to claim in Germany during the 1920s. Despite these differences in public reception, the parallel between the 2 books is obvious.

    Gone With the Wind portrays the South as a victim of its own hubris. There are obvious analogies between the way that the most reckless Southern spokesmen viewed the onset of the American Civil War and the way that many people across Europe in the summer of 1914 were convinced they would be "home by Christmas!" All of this is portrayed in Gone With the Wind as the great folly of whole society. It was not written to be the sort of novel which makes someone want to put on a Confederate uniform and go fight the Yanks. If properly understood it really is a Center-Left story.

  8. anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:

    O/T…

    Lol. Jeffrey Toobin is back at CNN.

    https://twitter.com/JournosPostLs/status/1403444864113688576

  9. A bigger question, will anyone review it other than those who will not engage with it and call it evil and some libertarians who will point to it and say all we need to do is accept it’s premises to enjoy progress for both black and white America. (In reality they know that saying that blacks are genetically less intelligent and impulsive on average will of course lead to less support for wealth redistribution and economic populism)

    The more interesting question is what the nature of this issue says about America. It is an appalling vista, Coates himself articulated this when he said that any degree of explanation for racial inequality which involves inherent deficiencies in African Americans, even merely on average, is something he can’t accept, not doesn’t accept, can’t accept no matter what kind of evidence you show him. (And thus everything must be racism)

    America is not a nation, it is at the very least bi-national with African Americans forming a cohesive identity and political structure which implicitly since the civil rights movement has obtained one form or another of power sharing agreements from the dominant society.

    Therefore the sense of honour and social status of this nation in America is a political reality it has to deal with. And there would be no greater humiliation, no greater cause of total illegitimacy than to accept the premise of Charles Murrays book. It is a political existential threat to black America.

    There is simply no way a multi-racial America that is a liberal democracy can possibly sustain this information except in implicit form, it can never be accepted explicitly.

    Murrays notion that some amount of affirmative action is going to cause the ‘disaster’ of white identity politics in America is wrong. Affirmative action was perfectly tolerable. What wasn’t tolerable were the Tumblr-derived anti-white narratives that have come to dominate the media and social media. But black anti-white animus and politicization (Itself a prime instigator for nascent white identity politics) won’t be vanquished by saying ‘Hey, a lot of the inequality that is so crushing? That’s on you guys, you’re just not very smart and you’re very impulsive, sorry’ and only libertarians trying to cover for wanting to remove political support for social welfare would say otherwise, it’s a disingenuous argument. In reality it would kick off an even more intense form of black anti-white politics that would birth more white identity politics in return.

    What’s the ‘answer’, it depends on what you want.

    • Agree: AndrewR, BB753, J.Ross
    • Thanks: William Badwhite
    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @Altai

    Agreed, and the anti-White animus is driven by the extraordinary levels of black people running things.

    A black Secretary of Defense is purging the military, from top to bottom, of Whites. There goes US military effectiveness. To Nigerian levels.

    Hollywood? Used to be Jewish, and you could even see now and then White heroes on TV and movies. Now its pretty much all black. Black black black black black blackety black. Same with commercials, TV, streaming, sportsball. All black.

    Corporations? All black, all the time. Black black black black blackety black black.

    White men have no stake, say, or representation at any level of this nation. And it happened basically with Obama onwards, so rapidly.

    White men figure likely: the bad old segregationists were correct. That also, White women are the enemy and need to be repressed. With a good dose of kids and kitchen work. [A full 44% of White women with college love CRT. ] That its back to blood, as Tom Wolfe predicted. What really is the modern Western society for White men who are not homosexuals? It has nothing, nothing at all to recommend it. And they have no place in it, and never will. Neither do their heroes, history, or heritage. Their lives will be nothing more than one long lifetime grovel before KANGZ.

    That is a bullet that cannot be called back.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Liza

    , @John Johnson
    @Altai

    Murrays notion that some amount of affirmative action is going to cause the ‘disaster’ of white identity politics in America is wrong. Affirmative action was perfectly tolerable.

    Why should affirmative action be tolerable? Would you tolerate an AA pilot or pay $15 more for one hired based on merit?

    Or does someone else have to tolerate the results?

    I have seen the results behind the scenes of corporate America. It is not pretty and would shock the public.

    The entire idea is based in race denial and if anything re-enforces stereotypes when it tries to correct what are really gaps in education.

    , @IHTG
    @Altai

    Good post.

    , @Rob
    @Altai

    I dunno if black difference cannot be accepted by Americans. Firstly, those differences were thoroughly known to Southerners for hundreds of years. Maybe that does not count, because post-slavery the south had Jim Crow and herrenvolk democracy? White Southerners do not tell Northmen, of course, but they still know. There’s a reason Southern whites did not stop the Great Migration to keep all those valuable blacks for ourselves. Teenagers rebel, but know soon enough. Maybe women have forgotten. I don’t know.

    That’s the South, though, and maybe the rest of the country is different?

    There are a lot of Americans these days who are not descended from whites in the north or south. I have heard that Asian-black relations are poor. Asians see themselves rise from poverty to the upper middle class in one generation. To the upper class in two-three. They see blacks in school, in the street, and in their stores. You think they don’t know? They oppose AA in part because AA brings the awful blacks into places they went to to get away from blacks.

    I had an internship working in a small group for a couple months. Nearly direct quote about a guy at her (not particularly elite school) “He’s really smart for a black guy. Almost smart enough to be there.”

    Mexicans? I have heard cartels do not work with blacks. Here are the headline and sub from an SPLC article, dated January 16, 2007:


    LATINO GANG MEMBERS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA ARE TERRORIZING AND KILLING BLACKS

    Acting on orders from the Mexican Mafia, Latino gang members in Southern California are terrorizing and killing blacks
     

    Whites across the country vote with their feet and long mortgages to stay away from blacks. Mexicans have less money and legality, para que voten a balazos. You think they don’t know? Like Asian immigrants, their kids have to go to school with blacks. Black children, unlike the adults you get to with, have not had the worst weeded out with prison and beefs with other ‘bangers. The black and Mestizo personalities are very different.

    Indian Brahmins have retooled as the priests of woke for the POC, we will see if the POC accept them, but they are trying. Indians are somewhat willing to tolerate group differences in status, rights, material possessions, and the having of servants. Do you think the Brahmins making with Econ masters degrees and 150k a year gigs in finance are going to be up in arms about people realizing there are population differences? They will retool as the priestly caste of preserving inequality. With themselves on top, it goes without saying. They may actually not know, they start out so high income. But if they live in cities, with women scared of them, until they see that the Brahmin is black, but not, you know, black, they may realize that racism is real. When they encounter black people who are actually, you know, black, they will realize why racism is real.

    Of Americans, that basically leaves Jews. Jews are very uncomfortable with homogeneously white societies buying into reality, but they like city living, and cities might take a long time to be 2010-level civilized, if they ever do. If they do not know why they are smart and not big on personal, disorganized, non-state violence, but blacks are not and are, respectively, then I would be fairly sure that non-hereditarianism is strongly genetically influenced. Personally, I think they know that shvartzer sunt diferite. What they oppose is whites gaining group consciousness, unless it is a self-flagellating consciousness they strongly influence, like college-educated white women have now. In a multicultural, multiracial former nation, where whites cannot put a kibosh on their niche, I think they’ll be more tolerant of people talking about it.

    Not to mention, the (possibly feigned) Jewish and (sincere) GoodWhite aversion to hereditary ani’s my is a direct result of Nazi Germany. The Nazis are long gone. The America that defeated them is more than likely a dead man walking. Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too. Pre-Nazis, the American upper-class was very much in favor of eugenics. But we were talking about blacks being different.

    Back to white Americans. It seems to me that fertility trends are making whites more genetically conservative, dumber (but maybe slower than blacks, one might hope) and less status-conscious. Those are not trends favoring the Great Taboo That Cannot Even Be Referred To As Something That Is. A Taboo. I have heard white divorcées and single mothers have fewer kids than women who get an stay married, so that trend favors children raised by fathers, which is bad for the taboo.

    I forgot to mention the beliefs of blacks themselves. I think they know. At least the brighter ones. I have known blacks who did not like other blacks, preferring white company. It would not surprise me if many middle class blacks, at least the ones smart enough to actually be, did not prefer whites. The black men who date white women must have noticed how much sharper their girlfriends and their families were. When that happens multiple times, and he is not dating high on the SES ladder, surely something clicks? Ghetto blacks probably do not have enough experience with whites to know. Ghetto blacks also do not drive the culture.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @AndrewR

  10. I plan to buy multiple copies, as I’m sure this will quickly become samizdat literature…

  11. Anonymous[718] • Disclaimer says:

    The physical hardback Facing Reality is small, elegant, and to the point, in part because a lot of the scholarly supporting material is relegated to the webpage at Encounter Books.

    That seems regrettable, Steve. It means, does it not, that the supporting material can be censored, removed, made unavailable.

    Would it have been possible to render it in hard copy?

  12. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/bronzeagemantis/status/1405203214723694595?s=20

    Rosa Parks and Anne Frank replaced Columbus and Franklin long ago.

    When will Murray and friends face THAT reality and repair the damage it has done to our nation and her people?

    https://twitter.com/herandrews/status/1404760807129370627?s=20

    Replies: @AndrewR, @jorge videla

    Sgt Chip is off by three orders of magnitude

  13. REVIEW it? Try to find anyone in MSM or anywhere in government who’d even admit to having HEARD of it, failing that, it would be racist to even touch it. Read or review it? Clutch My Pearls! Why, I never!” In the current woke-a-thon, they wouldn’t dare.

    They get caught with a copy, they’ll be groveling to the blacks harder than MTG before the jews.

  14. Simone Biles’ brother was acquitted for the murder of not 1, not 2 but 3 people on New Years

    If this one sentence isn’t indicative of the black community having a serious problem I don’t know what does

    Dude this was all talked about in Boyz in the Hood 40 years ago

    Same ole’ same ole’

  15. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/bronzeagemantis/status/1405203214723694595?s=20

    Rosa Parks and Anne Frank replaced Columbus and Franklin long ago.

    When will Murray and friends face THAT reality and repair the damage it has done to our nation and her people?

    https://twitter.com/herandrews/status/1404760807129370627?s=20

    Replies: @AndrewR, @jorge videla

    When will Murray and friends face THAT reality and repair the damage it has done to our nation and her people?

    what nation? what people? you sound like a cuckservative. the debate is over and hitler won.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @jorge videla

    My nation. My people. All Schiklgruber won was a shallow grave and a century of abject humiliation for his people. I want better for my boys.

    You don’t like it go back to Bolivia.

    Replies: @res

  16. The fact that so few outlets will review it shows how clueless Murray is.

    HEY ESTABLISHMENT I MADE SOME SCATTER PLOTS THAT SHOW THE TRUTH ABOUT RACE

    I PATIENTLY AWAIT YOUR REVIEW

    YOUR PAL CHUCKY

    Professor Chucky E Libertarian
    World’s foremost racial expert with graphs to prove it

    • LOL: Liza
  17. @Altai
    A bigger question, will anyone review it other than those who will not engage with it and call it evil and some libertarians who will point to it and say all we need to do is accept it's premises to enjoy progress for both black and white America. (In reality they know that saying that blacks are genetically less intelligent and impulsive on average will of course lead to less support for wealth redistribution and economic populism)

    The more interesting question is what the nature of this issue says about America. It is an appalling vista, Coates himself articulated this when he said that any degree of explanation for racial inequality which involves inherent deficiencies in African Americans, even merely on average, is something he can't accept, not doesn't accept, can't accept no matter what kind of evidence you show him. (And thus everything must be racism)

    America is not a nation, it is at the very least bi-national with African Americans forming a cohesive identity and political structure which implicitly since the civil rights movement has obtained one form or another of power sharing agreements from the dominant society.

    Therefore the sense of honour and social status of this nation in America is a political reality it has to deal with. And there would be no greater humiliation, no greater cause of total illegitimacy than to accept the premise of Charles Murrays book. It is a political existential threat to black America.

    There is simply no way a multi-racial America that is a liberal democracy can possibly sustain this information except in implicit form, it can never be accepted explicitly.

    Murrays notion that some amount of affirmative action is going to cause the 'disaster' of white identity politics in America is wrong. Affirmative action was perfectly tolerable. What wasn't tolerable were the Tumblr-derived anti-white narratives that have come to dominate the media and social media. But black anti-white animus and politicization (Itself a prime instigator for nascent white identity politics) won't be vanquished by saying 'Hey, a lot of the inequality that is so crushing? That's on you guys, you're just not very smart and you're very impulsive, sorry' and only libertarians trying to cover for wanting to remove political support for social welfare would say otherwise, it's a disingenuous argument. In reality it would kick off an even more intense form of black anti-white politics that would birth more white identity politics in return.

    What's the 'answer', it depends on what you want.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @John Johnson, @IHTG, @Rob

    Agreed, and the anti-White animus is driven by the extraordinary levels of black people running things.

    A black Secretary of Defense is purging the military, from top to bottom, of Whites. There goes US military effectiveness. To Nigerian levels.

    Hollywood? Used to be Jewish, and you could even see now and then White heroes on TV and movies. Now its pretty much all black. Black black black black black blackety black. Same with commercials, TV, streaming, sportsball. All black.

    Corporations? All black, all the time. Black black black black blackety black black.

    White men have no stake, say, or representation at any level of this nation. And it happened basically with Obama onwards, so rapidly.

    White men figure likely: the bad old segregationists were correct. That also, White women are the enemy and need to be repressed. With a good dose of kids and kitchen work. [A full 44% of White women with college love CRT. ] That its back to blood, as Tom Wolfe predicted. What really is the modern Western society for White men who are not homosexuals? It has nothing, nothing at all to recommend it. And they have no place in it, and never will. Neither do their heroes, history, or heritage. Their lives will be nothing more than one long lifetime grovel before KANGZ.

    That is a bullet that cannot be called back.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Whiskey

    "the anti-White animus is driven by the extraordinary levels of black people running things"

    LOL.

    Whiskey can rival Steve for deadpan humour.

    , @Liza
    @Whiskey

    God forgive me, but this is funny (in an awful way). Doncha love the training scene.



    https://soulbrotherv2.tumblr.com/post/56524408983/robert-crumbs-when-the-niggers-take-over

    Replies: @Truth, @John Johnson

  18. How Many Publications Will Review Charles Murray’s “Facing Reality?”

    Wall Street Journal Watch for the Charles Murray FACING REALITY book is underway.

    George Washington was said to have made it an order that — None But Americans On Watch Tonight — and let’s see when the WSJ will review Murray’s group racial differences book.

    The Wall Street Journal music review guy attacked Van Morrison’s recent album because Van The Man was highly skeptical about China Lab Flu and Bat Soup Fever and the ruling class response to China Lab Flu and Bat Soup Fever and The Guardian went after Mr Van Morrison also.

    Van Morrison is Scottish by way of Belfast and Charles Murray is Scottish by way of the town in Iowa famous for washing machines and clothes dryers and both evince very pleasant Scottish worldviews where they want to know how things work and how they can work differently.

    Charles Murray to me is a trimmer for the ruling class posing as an intellectual provocateur and Murray’s reluctance to call for Whites to advance their interests as Whites is irritating.

    Whites Without College Degrees are getting pushed out of the globalizer post-national Democrat Party and the White Upper Middle Class Snot Brats and the plutocrats and the ruling class are using Blacks as a shield to deflect attention away from the massive concentration of wealth and power in the USA.

  19. @Altai
    A bigger question, will anyone review it other than those who will not engage with it and call it evil and some libertarians who will point to it and say all we need to do is accept it's premises to enjoy progress for both black and white America. (In reality they know that saying that blacks are genetically less intelligent and impulsive on average will of course lead to less support for wealth redistribution and economic populism)

    The more interesting question is what the nature of this issue says about America. It is an appalling vista, Coates himself articulated this when he said that any degree of explanation for racial inequality which involves inherent deficiencies in African Americans, even merely on average, is something he can't accept, not doesn't accept, can't accept no matter what kind of evidence you show him. (And thus everything must be racism)

    America is not a nation, it is at the very least bi-national with African Americans forming a cohesive identity and political structure which implicitly since the civil rights movement has obtained one form or another of power sharing agreements from the dominant society.

    Therefore the sense of honour and social status of this nation in America is a political reality it has to deal with. And there would be no greater humiliation, no greater cause of total illegitimacy than to accept the premise of Charles Murrays book. It is a political existential threat to black America.

    There is simply no way a multi-racial America that is a liberal democracy can possibly sustain this information except in implicit form, it can never be accepted explicitly.

    Murrays notion that some amount of affirmative action is going to cause the 'disaster' of white identity politics in America is wrong. Affirmative action was perfectly tolerable. What wasn't tolerable were the Tumblr-derived anti-white narratives that have come to dominate the media and social media. But black anti-white animus and politicization (Itself a prime instigator for nascent white identity politics) won't be vanquished by saying 'Hey, a lot of the inequality that is so crushing? That's on you guys, you're just not very smart and you're very impulsive, sorry' and only libertarians trying to cover for wanting to remove political support for social welfare would say otherwise, it's a disingenuous argument. In reality it would kick off an even more intense form of black anti-white politics that would birth more white identity politics in return.

    What's the 'answer', it depends on what you want.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @John Johnson, @IHTG, @Rob

    Murrays notion that some amount of affirmative action is going to cause the ‘disaster’ of white identity politics in America is wrong. Affirmative action was perfectly tolerable.

    Why should affirmative action be tolerable? Would you tolerate an AA pilot or pay $15 more for one hired based on merit?

    Or does someone else have to tolerate the results?

    I have seen the results behind the scenes of corporate America. It is not pretty and would shock the public.

    The entire idea is based in race denial and if anything re-enforces stereotypes when it tries to correct what are really gaps in education.

  20. I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @John Derbyshire

    Great publicity but it'll be interesting to see if Tuck asks Murray if he regrets continuing to completely depend on his enemies.

    , @northeast
    @John Derbyshire

    Very nice hearing this. Thanks for posting. I'll be looking out for the interview.

    , @Barnard
    @John Derbyshire

    Are any of Murray "friends" on the "center-left" talking to him about the book? Are any of his old buddies at the Dispatch or the Bulwark even going to review it? Of course not, it would send their liberal readers and donors to the fainting couches.

    , @MEH 0910
    @John Derbyshire

    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1404910022010748933
    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1404919211013574658

    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1404942505674788866

    https://twitter.com/foxnation/status/1405257460416495628

    , @AKAHorace
    @John Derbyshire

    Have you or Steve seen the recent opinion piece on politicizing science ? Instead of the woman who wrote it being cancelled and denounced by the responsible majority of her peers, a wave of moderate debate is breaking out on twitter. Perhaps I am being premature though.

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jpclett.1c01475

    , @Anon
    @John Derbyshire


    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.
     
    The clip with Murray aired by Tucker last night was incredibly lame. All about Murray lamenting that the United States is now more focused on race than it was when he grew up.

    Nothing about group differences.

    Replies: @res

  21. A much more important question: When will the book become available on Library Genesis? Someone needs to de-DRM it and upload!

  22. @Altai
    A bigger question, will anyone review it other than those who will not engage with it and call it evil and some libertarians who will point to it and say all we need to do is accept it's premises to enjoy progress for both black and white America. (In reality they know that saying that blacks are genetically less intelligent and impulsive on average will of course lead to less support for wealth redistribution and economic populism)

    The more interesting question is what the nature of this issue says about America. It is an appalling vista, Coates himself articulated this when he said that any degree of explanation for racial inequality which involves inherent deficiencies in African Americans, even merely on average, is something he can't accept, not doesn't accept, can't accept no matter what kind of evidence you show him. (And thus everything must be racism)

    America is not a nation, it is at the very least bi-national with African Americans forming a cohesive identity and political structure which implicitly since the civil rights movement has obtained one form or another of power sharing agreements from the dominant society.

    Therefore the sense of honour and social status of this nation in America is a political reality it has to deal with. And there would be no greater humiliation, no greater cause of total illegitimacy than to accept the premise of Charles Murrays book. It is a political existential threat to black America.

    There is simply no way a multi-racial America that is a liberal democracy can possibly sustain this information except in implicit form, it can never be accepted explicitly.

    Murrays notion that some amount of affirmative action is going to cause the 'disaster' of white identity politics in America is wrong. Affirmative action was perfectly tolerable. What wasn't tolerable were the Tumblr-derived anti-white narratives that have come to dominate the media and social media. But black anti-white animus and politicization (Itself a prime instigator for nascent white identity politics) won't be vanquished by saying 'Hey, a lot of the inequality that is so crushing? That's on you guys, you're just not very smart and you're very impulsive, sorry' and only libertarians trying to cover for wanting to remove political support for social welfare would say otherwise, it's a disingenuous argument. In reality it would kick off an even more intense form of black anti-white politics that would birth more white identity politics in return.

    What's the 'answer', it depends on what you want.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @John Johnson, @IHTG, @Rob

    Good post.

  23. anon[310] • Disclaimer says:

    There is no upside to reviewing it. Both safer and easier to ignore it.

    The right-wing freakout over critical race theory—or, at least what some Republican politicians and pundits think it is—has been playing out simultaneously in statehouses and TV studios, with lawmakers crafting bills to ban schools from teaching about systemic racism and conservative media figures fanning the flames. Fox News, for one, has mentioned critical race theory—the academic movement that positions race and racism as embedded in American institutions—nearly 1,300 times in the past three-and-a-half months, Media Matters reports, with mentions more than doubling month over month since February. Last week marked a new high for Fox News’ obsession, as the network mentioned “critical race theory” 244 times, up from 170 the week before.

    From Vanity Fair

    As the MSM tries to forget the Pulitzer Prize winning 1619 Project. They may try to deny anyone other than academic postmodernists explicitly used the term, but they are still enthusiastically embrace the concept “structural racism”. Even as they want to walk some or most of it back…they will find it isn’t that easy. Everyone wanted to get out front on it.

    Murray=Bell Curve=Racist so no need to engage with evil.

  24. • Replies: @Known Fact
    @JohnnyWalker123

    It does get annoying when people end a blunt thought by actually writing out "Period. End of sentence."

  25. @John Derbyshire
    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @northeast, @Barnard, @MEH 0910, @AKAHorace, @Anon

    Great publicity but it’ll be interesting to see if Tuck asks Murray if he regrets continuing to completely depend on his enemies.

    • Agree: Liza
  26. Steve, Derb, I don’t know if you really want to face reality about race at this point in time. The Honkee vs. Pieface war is taking a vicious turn…

    https://worldstar.com/video.php?v=wshhf0W53kU9GpvWaslc

  27. @John Derbyshire
    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @northeast, @Barnard, @MEH 0910, @AKAHorace, @Anon

    Very nice hearing this. Thanks for posting. I’ll be looking out for the interview.

  28. @John Derbyshire
    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @northeast, @Barnard, @MEH 0910, @AKAHorace, @Anon

    Are any of Murray “friends” on the “center-left” talking to him about the book? Are any of his old buddies at the Dispatch or the Bulwark even going to review it? Of course not, it would send their liberal readers and donors to the fainting couches.

  29. Now that Newsome declared the CoronaHoax over because ¡Science!, are y’alls down in Cali still wearing Facediapers and practicing shit-for-brains distancing?

    15.5 months into this hoax, and I have never even owned a facediaper. I am frequently the only person in a store or restaurant sans diaper here in Oregon – the diaper signs are still up everywhere and I ignore all. of. them.

    Damn, it feels good to be a gangster.

    • Agree: Liza
  30. @John Derbyshire
    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @northeast, @Barnard, @MEH 0910, @AKAHorace, @Anon


    [MORE]

  31. Interview of Adam Bellow, the son of Saul Bellow., who was an editor at some of the most prestigious book publishing houses in New York, gives an account of the cancelling out of all conservative authors.

    Fascinating interview, especially the memories of his father.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/uz/podcast/blacklist-against-conservative-authors-interview-distinguished/id635045292?i=1000514897914

  32. Here’s F. Roger Devlin’s review in VDARE.


    [MORE]

    • Replies: @anon
    @MEH 0910

    Here's F. Roger Devlin's review mirrored at an obscure web site.

    https://www.unz.com/article/charles-murrays-facing-reality-ruling-class-must-accept-race-differences-or-provokethe-disaster-of-white-identity-politics/

    , @Barnard
    @MEH 0910

    Nice to see the replies are ripping Murray's snide response to a fair and good review.

    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @MEH 0910

    When you see a Libertarian, hit him. He'll know why.

    - The Z-Man

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Desiderius
    @MEH 0910

    I know Sun Tzu talks about the importance of knowing one's enemies.

    Does he say anything about those who refuse to know their friends? Who does Chuck think he's impressing here?

    Join. Or. Die. All of us. Sinners and tax collectors and snobs like Murray too. All.

    It is that simple.

    Replies: @Bill

    , @Dan Hayes
    @MEH 0910

    Charles Murray: "The reviewer is not pleased. Thankfully." What a despicable and awful comment by a despicable and awful Murray!

    The next time Murray get pummeled (literally and figuratively) by his critics, don't expect any sympathy from me!

    Contrast Murray's usual pusillanimous behavior with that of his late coauthor, Richard Herrnstein!

  33. @MEH 0910

    Here’s F. Roger Devlin’s review in VDARE.
     
    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1405138177459949574

    https://twitter.com/UnzReview/status/1405002983574806528

    Replies: @anon, @Barnard, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Desiderius, @Dan Hayes

  34. @MEH 0910

    Here’s F. Roger Devlin’s review in VDARE.
     
    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1405138177459949574

    https://twitter.com/UnzReview/status/1405002983574806528

    Replies: @anon, @Barnard, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Desiderius, @Dan Hayes

    Nice to see the replies are ripping Murray’s snide response to a fair and good review.

  35. My takeaways from reading the book:

    “Systemic racism” and wokism are liberals saying it cannot be true — cannot be true — that gubmint programs and quotas and diversity don’t make a blind bit of difference. Evil white supremacists and conspiracy theorists must be to blame. What else could it be?

    The reason that corporations are woke is that they are on the hook to have proper race numbers all the way up the food chain. But this is impossible.

    That’s because IQ tests accurately predict educational and job-related performance this means that the more a degree or a job requires high cognitive ability the fewer low IQ people — e.g. blacks — will be able to pass the degree or do the job. So corporations cannot meet their quotas without having utterly unqualified people in high responsibility jobs.

    So, of course corporations are saying oh yeah, BLM, diversity, inclusion. Oh yeah. We are right with you. Just go easy on us, bro.

    Hey, in another 20 years probably all the high cognitive ability jobs will go to South and East Asians. Because average Asian IQ is 108 to average white IQ of 103.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Christopher Chantrill

    There is some truth to your explanation, but I think a bigger factor is that wokeness keeps the plebs from uniting over the fact that these corporations are robbing us blind as taxpayers, consumers and workers.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  36. Murray suggests his Violent Crime by Zip Code database might be of particular interest.

    Have you taken a look, Steve? For anyone interested, it is an XLSX file of about 89 MB and 500k rows. Does anyone know if a data dictionary exists for it? It looks there are quite a few ZIP code overall fields lumped in with the individual arrests (IMHO two tables, one for arrests and one for zip codes, would have saved significant space and made things a bit easier to work with).

    The arrests portion is fairly straightforward, but different conventions for the age column (age vs. bucket ranges) is a bit inconvenient. I can kind of make out the zip code information (mostly demographics), but not with confidence.

    • Replies: @David
    @res

    Data dictionary for the Violent Crime by Zip file starts top of page 7.

    https://www.encounterbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Documentation-for-the-Data-Files-0615.pdf

    Replies: @res


  37. [MORE]

    • Thanks: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @MEH 0910

    Given the fanatical support Trump has enjoyed by tens of millions of people, blaming Trump for, well, anything seems like a copout. As much as I hate Hillary, she wasn't wrong with her infamous "deplorables" speech. At what point do we stop blaming individual politicians and start blaming the scumbags and fools who support them?

    Replies: @Charlesz Martel

  38. Murray is practically demanding a response. The wokesters cannot let stand a book that simply and clearly lays out the problem that a significant, easily identifiable segment of the population is less intelligent and more violence prone than whites.

    It bears repeating: A significant, easily identifiable segment of the population is less intelligent and more violence prone than whites.

  39. @John Derbyshire
    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @northeast, @Barnard, @MEH 0910, @AKAHorace, @Anon

    Have you or Steve seen the recent opinion piece on politicizing science ? Instead of the woman who wrote it being cancelled and denounced by the responsible majority of her peers, a wave of moderate debate is breaking out on twitter. Perhaps I am being premature though.

    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jpclett.1c01475

  40. “Virgil, quick, come see, There goes Robert E. Lee!”

    Be quick about it Virgil, this might be your last chance.

  41. @Altai
    A bigger question, will anyone review it other than those who will not engage with it and call it evil and some libertarians who will point to it and say all we need to do is accept it's premises to enjoy progress for both black and white America. (In reality they know that saying that blacks are genetically less intelligent and impulsive on average will of course lead to less support for wealth redistribution and economic populism)

    The more interesting question is what the nature of this issue says about America. It is an appalling vista, Coates himself articulated this when he said that any degree of explanation for racial inequality which involves inherent deficiencies in African Americans, even merely on average, is something he can't accept, not doesn't accept, can't accept no matter what kind of evidence you show him. (And thus everything must be racism)

    America is not a nation, it is at the very least bi-national with African Americans forming a cohesive identity and political structure which implicitly since the civil rights movement has obtained one form or another of power sharing agreements from the dominant society.

    Therefore the sense of honour and social status of this nation in America is a political reality it has to deal with. And there would be no greater humiliation, no greater cause of total illegitimacy than to accept the premise of Charles Murrays book. It is a political existential threat to black America.

    There is simply no way a multi-racial America that is a liberal democracy can possibly sustain this information except in implicit form, it can never be accepted explicitly.

    Murrays notion that some amount of affirmative action is going to cause the 'disaster' of white identity politics in America is wrong. Affirmative action was perfectly tolerable. What wasn't tolerable were the Tumblr-derived anti-white narratives that have come to dominate the media and social media. But black anti-white animus and politicization (Itself a prime instigator for nascent white identity politics) won't be vanquished by saying 'Hey, a lot of the inequality that is so crushing? That's on you guys, you're just not very smart and you're very impulsive, sorry' and only libertarians trying to cover for wanting to remove political support for social welfare would say otherwise, it's a disingenuous argument. In reality it would kick off an even more intense form of black anti-white politics that would birth more white identity politics in return.

    What's the 'answer', it depends on what you want.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @John Johnson, @IHTG, @Rob

    I dunno if black difference cannot be accepted by Americans. Firstly, those differences were thoroughly known to Southerners for hundreds of years. Maybe that does not count, because post-slavery the south had Jim Crow and herrenvolk democracy? White Southerners do not tell Northmen, of course, but they still know. There’s a reason Southern whites did not stop the Great Migration to keep all those valuable blacks for ourselves. Teenagers rebel, but know soon enough. Maybe women have forgotten. I don’t know.

    That’s the South, though, and maybe the rest of the country is different?

    There are a lot of Americans these days who are not descended from whites in the north or south. I have heard that Asian-black relations are poor. Asians see themselves rise from poverty to the upper middle class in one generation. To the upper class in two-three. They see blacks in school, in the street, and in their stores. You think they don’t know? They oppose AA in part because AA brings the awful blacks into places they went to to get away from blacks.

    I had an internship working in a small group for a couple months. Nearly direct quote about a guy at her (not particularly elite school) “He’s really smart for a black guy. Almost smart enough to be there.”

    Mexicans? I have heard cartels do not work with blacks. Here are the headline and sub from an SPLC article, dated January 16, 2007:

    LATINO GANG MEMBERS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA ARE TERRORIZING AND KILLING BLACKS

    Acting on orders from the Mexican Mafia, Latino gang members in Southern California are terrorizing and killing blacks

    Whites across the country vote with their feet and long mortgages to stay away from blacks. Mexicans have less money and legality, para que voten a balazos. You think they don’t know? Like Asian immigrants, their kids have to go to school with blacks. Black children, unlike the adults you get to with, have not had the worst weeded out with prison and beefs with other ‘bangers. The black and Mestizo personalities are very different.

    Indian Brahmins have retooled as the priests of woke for the POC, we will see if the POC accept them, but they are trying. Indians are somewhat willing to tolerate group differences in status, rights, material possessions, and the having of servants. Do you think the Brahmins making with Econ masters degrees and 150k a year gigs in finance are going to be up in arms about people realizing there are population differences? They will retool as the priestly caste of preserving inequality. With themselves on top, it goes without saying. They may actually not know, they start out so high income. But if they live in cities, with women scared of them, until they see that the Brahmin is black, but not, you know, black, they may realize that racism is real. When they encounter black people who are actually, you know, black, they will realize why racism is real.

    Of Americans, that basically leaves Jews. Jews are very uncomfortable with homogeneously white societies buying into reality, but they like city living, and cities might take a long time to be 2010-level civilized, if they ever do. If they do not know why they are smart and not big on personal, disorganized, non-state violence, but blacks are not and are, respectively, then I would be fairly sure that non-hereditarianism is strongly genetically influenced. Personally, I think they know that shvartzer sunt diferite. What they oppose is whites gaining group consciousness, unless it is a self-flagellating consciousness they strongly influence, like college-educated white women have now. In a multicultural, multiracial former nation, where whites cannot put a kibosh on their niche, I think they’ll be more tolerant of people talking about it.

    Not to mention, the (possibly feigned) Jewish and (sincere) GoodWhite aversion to hereditary ani’s my is a direct result of Nazi Germany. The Nazis are long gone. The America that defeated them is more than likely a dead man walking. Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too. Pre-Nazis, the American upper-class was very much in favor of eugenics. But we were talking about blacks being different.

    Back to white Americans. It seems to me that fertility trends are making whites more genetically conservative, dumber (but maybe slower than blacks, one might hope) and less status-conscious. Those are not trends favoring the Great Taboo That Cannot Even Be Referred To As Something That Is. A Taboo. I have heard white divorcées and single mothers have fewer kids than women who get an stay married, so that trend favors children raised by fathers, which is bad for the taboo.

    I forgot to mention the beliefs of blacks themselves. I think they know. At least the brighter ones. I have known blacks who did not like other blacks, preferring white company. It would not surprise me if many middle class blacks, at least the ones smart enough to actually be, did not prefer whites. The black men who date white women must have noticed how much sharper their girlfriends and their families were. When that happens multiple times, and he is not dating high on the SES ladder, surely something clicks? Ghetto blacks probably do not have enough experience with whites to know. Ghetto blacks also do not drive the culture.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Rob


    Mexicans have less money and legality, para que voten a balazos.

     

    Ah, o balazo que existe
    O balazo que não é só minha
    Que também passa sozinha...

    Tall and tan and gun and lovely...


    https://sternodox.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/chicks_who_love_guns_04.jpg?w=584


    ¡Lo siento, fue irresistible!

    , @AndrewR
    @Rob

    It has got to be very psychologically painful for a black person to accept HBD. In fairness to blacks, there is an extreme aversion among race-conscious whites to even entertaining the idea that Jews might be a superior race, akin to normies whites' aversion to admitting that Jewish success is much more attributable to nepotism and ethnocentrism than to "valuing education." But the facts certainly speak for themselves. Why are so many whites susceptible to Jewish control? Literal cattle and sheep are probably completely unaware of their nature and completely happy with living a pastoral life, under the control of their human and canine superiors. Perhaps the same can be said of most whites.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

  42. Anonymous[399] • Disclaimer says:

    I expect this time around the mainstream media will ignore Murray’s controversial ideas on race, IQ and socioeconomic status as much as possible. They don’t want any “bad” ideas gaining potential traction with the public just when it seems like they’ve finally achieved a complete ideological stranglehold over society.

    But just to put things in perspective, the original Bell Curve was given lead coverage in many mainstream publications back in 1994. It made the actual covers of Newsweek magazine, the left of center New Republic, the right of center (and pre-purge) National Review as well as the New York Times Sunday magazine.
    (https://fair.org/home/racism-resurgent/)

    The Times’ science writer Malcolm Browne not only recommended The Bell Curve to his readers but also Seymour Itzkoff’s The Decline of Intelligence in America and Philippe Rushton’s Race, Evolution and Behavior. He prefaced his review of these three books with the ominous warning that “The government or society that persists in sweeping their subject matter under the rug will do so at its peril.” (https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/00/06/04/specials/herrnstein-bell.html)

    Even then-President Bill Clinton was asked by reporters about his thoughts on The Bell Curve, and responded by saying that he was “outraged” by the thrust of the book.
    Meanwhile, boomercon House speaker Newt Gingrich said through his neo-con spokesman Tony Blankley that the Bell Curve was “completely wrong.” Ditto for the then-House Leader Richard Armey, who said he hadn’t read it and couldn’t comment. Establishment Republican talking heads across the board were flat-out dismissive of The Bell Curve’s and its findings.
    (https://jonathantilove.com/charles-murrays-bell-curve/)

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous


    Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too.
     
    They do? Like what?

    Replies: @John Johnson

  43. Good on Tucker. But afterward? The silence the book will receive will be so complete and pure that future scientists will use the void it creates in the media to test their most sensitive quantum-acoustical instruments. You’ve got the Ray Midge guarantee on that. “Indifference” will thereafter seem the cacophony of 100 galaxies going supernova simultaneously. Man may literally lose the ability to communicate with others given the silence levels this will generate. Tell your loved ones you love them while they can still hear you, I beg!

  44. I went to my local Barnes & Noble to buy a couple of copies. They do not stock it. Apparently there’s no room between the Kendi books and Michele Obama hagiographies, but I think they may sell it mail order, but I’m mot giving them that business. I ordered 2 on bookshop.org. Book Depository carries it, but the website indicated a substantial wait.

  45. It will generally be ignored, but not for the reasons that you think. It will be ignored because it was written for an age that has passed.

    His arguments don’t matter anymore. The country is now multiracial and thus tribal, except for Whites who are slowly awakening to the game.

    He – and his thesis – long for a time and place that no longer exist.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    His arguments don’t matter anymore. The country is now multiracial and thus tribal, except for Whites who are slowly awakening to the game.
     
    His arguments are relevant to whites who need to wake up and by having this book in print, they can refer to it when making reasonable assertions about race vis-à-vis job success and about race vis-à-vis violence. It is their DNA that causes negroes to fail and become violent.

    To misquote James Carville, "It's their DNA, stupid."
  46. @MEH 0910

    Here’s F. Roger Devlin’s review in VDARE.
     
    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1405138177459949574

    https://twitter.com/UnzReview/status/1405002983574806528

    Replies: @anon, @Barnard, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Desiderius, @Dan Hayes

    When you see a Libertarian, hit him. He’ll know why.

    – The Z-Man

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Citizen of a Silly Country


    When you see a Libertarian, hit him. He’ll know why.

    – The Z-Man
     
    Because he questions your right to the green check that keeps you fed?
  47. @MEH 0910

    Here’s F. Roger Devlin’s review in VDARE.
     
    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1405138177459949574

    https://twitter.com/UnzReview/status/1405002983574806528

    Replies: @anon, @Barnard, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Desiderius, @Dan Hayes

    I know Sun Tzu talks about the importance of knowing one’s enemies.

    Does he say anything about those who refuse to know their friends? Who does Chuck think he’s impressing here?

    Join. Or. Die. All of us. Sinners and tax collectors and snobs like Murray too. All.

    It is that simple.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Desiderius

    Murray is telling you he isn't your friend. Just believe him.

  48. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    It will generally be ignored, but not for the reasons that you think. It will be ignored because it was written for an age that has passed.

    His arguments don't matter anymore. The country is now multiracial and thus tribal, except for Whites who are slowly awakening to the game.

    He - and his thesis - long for a time and place that no longer exist.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    His arguments don’t matter anymore. The country is now multiracial and thus tribal, except for Whites who are slowly awakening to the game.

    His arguments are relevant to whites who need to wake up and by having this book in print, they can refer to it when making reasonable assertions about race vis-à-vis job success and about race vis-à-vis violence. It is their DNA that causes negroes to fail and become violent.

    To misquote James Carville, “It’s their DNA, stupid.”

  49. Anon[252] • Disclaimer says:

    Glenn Loury has Murray on his “The Glenn Show” video podcast at Bloggingheads this coming Monday, with John McWhorter in attendance, I believe. This show has gained prominence. Meghan Daum credited it with her shift away from garden-variety woke:

    I was a particular fan of the monthly dialogue between the economist and professor Glenn Loury and the linguist and literature professor John McWhorter. Calling themselves “the Black Guys on Bloggingheads,” they talked about racial politics with more candor and (ahem) nuance than I’d probably ever heard in my life. They even dared to do what few in the left-leaning chatterati were willing to do: hold the writer Ta-Nehisi Coates up to scrutiny.

    If you remember when Penn law professor Amy Wax got into hot water when she said blacks were never in the top 10 percent of her classes, rarely in the top half, and mostly in the bottom 10 percent, that happened of “The Glenn Show.”

    Loury decided, against the advice of John McWhorter, his black sidekick on his show, to do an hour-long interview with Tucker Carlson this week, and he did an hour on the “Rubin Report.” Loury is critical of black culture, in a sort of Bill Cosby way, which is considered blaming the victim by the left.

    I think an appearance on “The Glenn Show” is not something that can easily be ignored. (Rubin is another matter). Loury and McWhorter are really sharp interviewers. Loury in particular specializes in listening intently and then steelmanning his guest’s case, before offering his own opinion. Loury is on the econometrics side of economics and is not intimidated by math and numbers, which is relevant for Murray’s book.

    In the case of The Bell Curve, the publisher famously sent out review copies only to a selected list of friendly writers, under embargo, but did not send copies to critics considered potentially hostile. I wonder if they repeated that tactic with Facing Reality? If they did, reviewers would have to obtain and read the book, take a little time to digest it and come up with their response, and depending on the outlet, do a pitch. So there could be reviews, but delayed.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @res
    @Anon


    Glenn Loury has Murray on his “The Glenn Show” video podcast at Bloggingheads this coming Monday, with John McWhorter in attendance, I believe.
    ...
    Loury decided, against the advice of John McWhorter, his black sidekick on his show, to do an hour-long interview with Tucker Carlson this week, and he did an hour on the “Rubin Report.” Loury is critical of black culture, in a sort of Bill Cosby way, which is considered blaming the victim by the left.
     
    Those sound worth following up on. Thanks. Hopefully iSteve will discuss, or we can add some OT comments with links once available.

    In the case of The Bell Curve, the publisher famously sent out review copies only to a selected list of friendly writers, under embargo, but did not send copies to critics considered potentially hostile.
     
    I did not know that. Thanks. Do you have any links to discussion of that? I would have expected it to be controversial.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @MEH 0910
    @Anon

    https://twitter.com/GlennLoury/status/1405221152549748737

    https://twitter.com/GlennLoury/status/1405232932126609419

  50. …a lot of the scholarly supporting material is relegated to the webpage at Encounter Books.

    Founded by the longtime companion of David Horowitz, native Angeleno Peter Collier. Encounter is one of the few bright spots to come out of San Francisco proper in recent decades.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/books/peter-collier-dead.html

    Murray suggests his Violent Crime by Zip Code database might be of particular interest.

    Does this go down to the nine-digit level?

    ZIP+4 Codes | How to find yours and what it means

    Like Canadian postal codes, these refer to individual carriers’ routes. My brother once delivered the mail to a low-rise black ghetto in the deepest of the Deep South. He said that no matter how anarchic it got, his safety was guaranteed. No baby momma or her sperm donor
    was going to allow harm to come to the man who brought the checks.

  51. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @MEH 0910

    When you see a Libertarian, hit him. He'll know why.

    - The Z-Man

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    When you see a Libertarian, hit him. He’ll know why.

    – The Z-Man

    Because he questions your right to the green check that keeps you fed?

  52. @Rob
    @Altai

    I dunno if black difference cannot be accepted by Americans. Firstly, those differences were thoroughly known to Southerners for hundreds of years. Maybe that does not count, because post-slavery the south had Jim Crow and herrenvolk democracy? White Southerners do not tell Northmen, of course, but they still know. There’s a reason Southern whites did not stop the Great Migration to keep all those valuable blacks for ourselves. Teenagers rebel, but know soon enough. Maybe women have forgotten. I don’t know.

    That’s the South, though, and maybe the rest of the country is different?

    There are a lot of Americans these days who are not descended from whites in the north or south. I have heard that Asian-black relations are poor. Asians see themselves rise from poverty to the upper middle class in one generation. To the upper class in two-three. They see blacks in school, in the street, and in their stores. You think they don’t know? They oppose AA in part because AA brings the awful blacks into places they went to to get away from blacks.

    I had an internship working in a small group for a couple months. Nearly direct quote about a guy at her (not particularly elite school) “He’s really smart for a black guy. Almost smart enough to be there.”

    Mexicans? I have heard cartels do not work with blacks. Here are the headline and sub from an SPLC article, dated January 16, 2007:


    LATINO GANG MEMBERS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA ARE TERRORIZING AND KILLING BLACKS

    Acting on orders from the Mexican Mafia, Latino gang members in Southern California are terrorizing and killing blacks
     

    Whites across the country vote with their feet and long mortgages to stay away from blacks. Mexicans have less money and legality, para que voten a balazos. You think they don’t know? Like Asian immigrants, their kids have to go to school with blacks. Black children, unlike the adults you get to with, have not had the worst weeded out with prison and beefs with other ‘bangers. The black and Mestizo personalities are very different.

    Indian Brahmins have retooled as the priests of woke for the POC, we will see if the POC accept them, but they are trying. Indians are somewhat willing to tolerate group differences in status, rights, material possessions, and the having of servants. Do you think the Brahmins making with Econ masters degrees and 150k a year gigs in finance are going to be up in arms about people realizing there are population differences? They will retool as the priestly caste of preserving inequality. With themselves on top, it goes without saying. They may actually not know, they start out so high income. But if they live in cities, with women scared of them, until they see that the Brahmin is black, but not, you know, black, they may realize that racism is real. When they encounter black people who are actually, you know, black, they will realize why racism is real.

    Of Americans, that basically leaves Jews. Jews are very uncomfortable with homogeneously white societies buying into reality, but they like city living, and cities might take a long time to be 2010-level civilized, if they ever do. If they do not know why they are smart and not big on personal, disorganized, non-state violence, but blacks are not and are, respectively, then I would be fairly sure that non-hereditarianism is strongly genetically influenced. Personally, I think they know that shvartzer sunt diferite. What they oppose is whites gaining group consciousness, unless it is a self-flagellating consciousness they strongly influence, like college-educated white women have now. In a multicultural, multiracial former nation, where whites cannot put a kibosh on their niche, I think they’ll be more tolerant of people talking about it.

    Not to mention, the (possibly feigned) Jewish and (sincere) GoodWhite aversion to hereditary ani’s my is a direct result of Nazi Germany. The Nazis are long gone. The America that defeated them is more than likely a dead man walking. Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too. Pre-Nazis, the American upper-class was very much in favor of eugenics. But we were talking about blacks being different.

    Back to white Americans. It seems to me that fertility trends are making whites more genetically conservative, dumber (but maybe slower than blacks, one might hope) and less status-conscious. Those are not trends favoring the Great Taboo That Cannot Even Be Referred To As Something That Is. A Taboo. I have heard white divorcées and single mothers have fewer kids than women who get an stay married, so that trend favors children raised by fathers, which is bad for the taboo.

    I forgot to mention the beliefs of blacks themselves. I think they know. At least the brighter ones. I have known blacks who did not like other blacks, preferring white company. It would not surprise me if many middle class blacks, at least the ones smart enough to actually be, did not prefer whites. The black men who date white women must have noticed how much sharper their girlfriends and their families were. When that happens multiple times, and he is not dating high on the SES ladder, surely something clicks? Ghetto blacks probably do not have enough experience with whites to know. Ghetto blacks also do not drive the culture.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @AndrewR

    Mexicans have less money and legality, para que voten a balazos.

    Ah, o balazo que existe
    O balazo que não é só minha
    Que também passa sozinha…

    Tall and tan and gun and lovely…

    ¡Lo siento, fue irresistible!

  53. @Christopher Chantrill
    My takeaways from reading the book:

    "Systemic racism" and wokism are liberals saying it cannot be true -- cannot be true -- that gubmint programs and quotas and diversity don't make a blind bit of difference. Evil white supremacists and conspiracy theorists must be to blame. What else could it be?

    The reason that corporations are woke is that they are on the hook to have proper race numbers all the way up the food chain. But this is impossible.

    That's because IQ tests accurately predict educational and job-related performance this means that the more a degree or a job requires high cognitive ability the fewer low IQ people -- e.g. blacks -- will be able to pass the degree or do the job. So corporations cannot meet their quotas without having utterly unqualified people in high responsibility jobs.

    So, of course corporations are saying oh yeah, BLM, diversity, inclusion. Oh yeah. We are right with you. Just go easy on us, bro.

    Hey, in another 20 years probably all the high cognitive ability jobs will go to South and East Asians. Because average Asian IQ is 108 to average white IQ of 103.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    There is some truth to your explanation, but I think a bigger factor is that wokeness keeps the plebs from uniting over the fact that these corporations are robbing us blind as taxpayers, consumers and workers.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @AndrewR

    This is historically accurate, it organizationally grew out of the sabotaging of Occupy Wall Street.

    Replies: @Bill

  54. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/TheSpectator/status/1405272722230423556

    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1405244098949308418

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Given the fanatical support Trump has enjoyed by tens of millions of people, blaming Trump for, well, anything seems like a copout. As much as I hate Hillary, she wasn’t wrong with her infamous “deplorables” speech. At what point do we stop blaming individual politicians and start blaming the scumbags and fools who support them?

    • Replies: @Charlesz Martel
    @AndrewR

    "How fortunate for politicians that men are fools."
    Adolf Hitler

  55. If it’s not being reviewed, it’s because it’s too impeccably argued for them to pick apart and it’s impossible for them to discredit it.

    He should’ve titled it “Face the Facts About the Blacks”, lol.

  56. @Rob
    @Altai

    I dunno if black difference cannot be accepted by Americans. Firstly, those differences were thoroughly known to Southerners for hundreds of years. Maybe that does not count, because post-slavery the south had Jim Crow and herrenvolk democracy? White Southerners do not tell Northmen, of course, but they still know. There’s a reason Southern whites did not stop the Great Migration to keep all those valuable blacks for ourselves. Teenagers rebel, but know soon enough. Maybe women have forgotten. I don’t know.

    That’s the South, though, and maybe the rest of the country is different?

    There are a lot of Americans these days who are not descended from whites in the north or south. I have heard that Asian-black relations are poor. Asians see themselves rise from poverty to the upper middle class in one generation. To the upper class in two-three. They see blacks in school, in the street, and in their stores. You think they don’t know? They oppose AA in part because AA brings the awful blacks into places they went to to get away from blacks.

    I had an internship working in a small group for a couple months. Nearly direct quote about a guy at her (not particularly elite school) “He’s really smart for a black guy. Almost smart enough to be there.”

    Mexicans? I have heard cartels do not work with blacks. Here are the headline and sub from an SPLC article, dated January 16, 2007:


    LATINO GANG MEMBERS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA ARE TERRORIZING AND KILLING BLACKS

    Acting on orders from the Mexican Mafia, Latino gang members in Southern California are terrorizing and killing blacks
     

    Whites across the country vote with their feet and long mortgages to stay away from blacks. Mexicans have less money and legality, para que voten a balazos. You think they don’t know? Like Asian immigrants, their kids have to go to school with blacks. Black children, unlike the adults you get to with, have not had the worst weeded out with prison and beefs with other ‘bangers. The black and Mestizo personalities are very different.

    Indian Brahmins have retooled as the priests of woke for the POC, we will see if the POC accept them, but they are trying. Indians are somewhat willing to tolerate group differences in status, rights, material possessions, and the having of servants. Do you think the Brahmins making with Econ masters degrees and 150k a year gigs in finance are going to be up in arms about people realizing there are population differences? They will retool as the priestly caste of preserving inequality. With themselves on top, it goes without saying. They may actually not know, they start out so high income. But if they live in cities, with women scared of them, until they see that the Brahmin is black, but not, you know, black, they may realize that racism is real. When they encounter black people who are actually, you know, black, they will realize why racism is real.

    Of Americans, that basically leaves Jews. Jews are very uncomfortable with homogeneously white societies buying into reality, but they like city living, and cities might take a long time to be 2010-level civilized, if they ever do. If they do not know why they are smart and not big on personal, disorganized, non-state violence, but blacks are not and are, respectively, then I would be fairly sure that non-hereditarianism is strongly genetically influenced. Personally, I think they know that shvartzer sunt diferite. What they oppose is whites gaining group consciousness, unless it is a self-flagellating consciousness they strongly influence, like college-educated white women have now. In a multicultural, multiracial former nation, where whites cannot put a kibosh on their niche, I think they’ll be more tolerant of people talking about it.

    Not to mention, the (possibly feigned) Jewish and (sincere) GoodWhite aversion to hereditary ani’s my is a direct result of Nazi Germany. The Nazis are long gone. The America that defeated them is more than likely a dead man walking. Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too. Pre-Nazis, the American upper-class was very much in favor of eugenics. But we were talking about blacks being different.

    Back to white Americans. It seems to me that fertility trends are making whites more genetically conservative, dumber (but maybe slower than blacks, one might hope) and less status-conscious. Those are not trends favoring the Great Taboo That Cannot Even Be Referred To As Something That Is. A Taboo. I have heard white divorcées and single mothers have fewer kids than women who get an stay married, so that trend favors children raised by fathers, which is bad for the taboo.

    I forgot to mention the beliefs of blacks themselves. I think they know. At least the brighter ones. I have known blacks who did not like other blacks, preferring white company. It would not surprise me if many middle class blacks, at least the ones smart enough to actually be, did not prefer whites. The black men who date white women must have noticed how much sharper their girlfriends and their families were. When that happens multiple times, and he is not dating high on the SES ladder, surely something clicks? Ghetto blacks probably do not have enough experience with whites to know. Ghetto blacks also do not drive the culture.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @AndrewR

    It has got to be very psychologically painful for a black person to accept HBD. In fairness to blacks, there is an extreme aversion among race-conscious whites to even entertaining the idea that Jews might be a superior race, akin to normies whites’ aversion to admitting that Jewish success is much more attributable to nepotism and ethnocentrism than to “valuing education.” But the facts certainly speak for themselves. Why are so many whites susceptible to Jewish control? Literal cattle and sheep are probably completely unaware of their nature and completely happy with living a pastoral life, under the control of their human and canine superiors. Perhaps the same can be said of most whites.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @AndrewR

    Liz Truss, UK Tory Equalities Minister, speaking to Times Radio


    “My role as equality minister is to make sure everybody in Britain is treated equally regardless of their sex, their sexuality and their race. What we have seen over the past few years is the development of identity politics where there has been division created. People are described as being members of a group rather than for their own personal, individual humanity and dignity… We have just launched for example a big data project looking where are the gaps in education, employment and enterprise across the country, and how we can fix those. That is the approach we need to take… I think some of the identity politics we have seen focus on symbolism over real results has been divisive… I think most people aren’t interested in this so–called culture war, what they’re interested in is, “Am I being given a fair chance? Do I have a good chance of getting a job? Am I treated fairly by public services?” And that’s why I think our equality agenda should focus on, those bread and butter issues that are of concern to everyone in the country.”
     
    Fixing The Gap is alive and well in the UK.


    "Am I treated fairly by public services?"

    That's a laugh. All white public servants are heavily indoctrinated and will always tend to favour minorities, racial or sexual, for their job or career's sake. Non-whites will favour their own group as usual.

    See how fairly the abused girls in Rotherham and many other places were treated!

    Talking of which...

    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19318365.social-worker-recalls-girl-frightened-amid-allegations/

    An underage girl who is accusing seven men of historic sexual offences has been described as frightened and very underweight by a social worker who assessed her at the time.

    Nazir Khan, 28, of no fixed abode, faces two rape allegations; Usman Sultan, 28, of Lawkholme Lane, Keighley, faces four rape allegations; Kamran Hussain, 28, of Hawk Street, Keighley, faces two counts of rape; Ali Razaq, 26, of Hawk Street, Keighley, faces one count of rape; Sohail Hussain, 30, of Skipton Road, Keighley, faces five counts of rape; Hasan Ali, 28, of Hollings Lane, Keighley, faces two counts of rape.

    A seventh man, Kasam Hussain, 30, of Lister Street, Keighley, faces one charge of intentionally inciting a girl aged under 16 to engage in sexual activity.

    The seven defendants are on trial facing a total of 17 counts between them and all seven pleaded not guilty to all charges against them.

    The charges against the defendants date between 2008 and 2009.

     

  57. I don’t know how Murray gets away with pretending that white racial consciousness is alien to America. Aside from a few periods in our history it’s been the norm. It’s still pretty common, and thanks to the democrats it’s bound to return with greater enthusiasm.

    I don’t buy the idea that whites are special in that they are uniquely antiracist. It’s a sham. We’re pretty much the same as other people in that regard, but for the last few decades lots and lots of whites have profited from immigration, public service jobs that cater to black needs, and status signalling among others.

    America’s defining national creed is material prosperity, not equality, liberty or democracy. We built our system to preserve, above all, our right to prosper. Nothing wrong with that. It worked really well. It even worked for American blacks, who are the wealthiest blacks on earth. In fact, if you want to base a civilization on anything, prosperity would probably be the most popular choice. It is in that sense that we are most democratic.

    As for liberty and equality we aren’t so high up there. American Indians had more liberty than we do, and probably more equality, but we smashed them all the same to advance prosperity, which they really weren’t very good at, with a few exceptions, such as the Mandan, whom we admired because they were rich.

    Getting to the point, we’ve pretty much run out of free land and resources, and we’ve got a lot more people. Increasingly, prosperity is a zero-sum game, so a lot more people are putting effort into taking stuff from others. That’s always happened, but it’s grown in scale and proportion. So you look at who has the most stuff to take, and it’s white men. And there you see how this whole equity thing has come about.

    But there’s a problem with it, and not only the problem of extracting the wealth. The problem is that most rich whites seem to have hastily jumped on the bandwagon. Working age working class whites don’t have all that much to take anymore. This is why the SALT tax cap won’t be repealed despite all the screaming in NY and CA. Personally, I think that cap contributed a lot more to Trump hatred than people are letting on.

    So now that rich whites find themselves in the cross hairs, how do they react? With irrational spite. They try to shove castration and racial shame on our children. “That’ll teach ’em!”

    Again, it backfires. Most of the girls and boys sexually mutilating themselves turn out to be upper middle class. How do working class whites react? Well, judging from what I’ve seen over the past year they’re immune to it (i.e. they don’t notice it because they’re more interested in tiktok) or they resent it and develop contempt for teachers. I wouldn’t want to be a teacher today!

    And that highlights another problem. The feeder line that replenishes the upper classes with talented working and middle class white kids is starting to fail. These talented youths provide fresh blood, energy and ambition. Some end up as excellent managers and executives, and some end up as much-needed down to earth, pragmatic wives of rich young men. That’s not going to happen as much when these kids believe the elites despise their moms and dads. So instead of joining the elite, they’ll form a competing elite.

    All this will squeeze the current white elite like a vice. They will get defensive, scared and increasingly hostile and irrational. It will turn into a positive feedback where everything they do makes them more hated and consequently more punitive and hostile. They’re in a bad place, and I can kind of see that Charles Murray is trying to get them to pull their heads out of their asses, but as he admits it’s probably already too late.

    But as far as preventing white racial identity from forming, especially in a racial competition for prosperity, that’s a pipe dream. Repressing it would burn up so much political capital and human resources that we’d all end up much poorer and our country much diminished. They might try it anyway, but Murray certainly shouldn’t offer them any moral justification for doing so.

    • Replies: @res
    @Bill P

    Interesting comment overall. Thanks.


    Working age working class whites don’t have all that much to take anymore. This is why the SALT tax cap won’t be repealed despite all the screaming in NY and CA. Personally, I think that cap contributed a lot more to Trump hatred than people are letting on.
     
    Interesting thought. It doesn't speak directly to your point, but I think this analysis of the SALT effects by income groups and states provides some good background.
    https://taxfoundation.org/salt-deduction-salt-cap-repeal/
    , @anon
    @Bill P

    And that highlights another problem. The feeder line that replenishes the upper classes with talented working and middle class white kids is starting to fail

    To the Upper Class and Upper Middle Class this is considered a feature, not a bug. There is an obvious excess of "elites", per Peter Turchin, so it is to be expected the UMC wants to pull up the metaphorical ladder. This is the real reason for discontinuation of the SAT and ACT; those tests enable the children of middle class families in flyover to have a chance of legit competition with the children of the UMC.

    Downward mobility actually does a service to the social order, but naturally nobody in the UMC sees it that way, and it's understandable because no one wants that for their own children. So we get absurd bits of corruption involving college acceptance scandals, and likely more such are on the way.

    All this will squeeze the current white elite like a vice. They will get defensive, scared and increasingly hostile and irrational. It will turn into a positive feedback where everything they do makes them more hated and consequently more punitive and hostile.

    We are already there, and in fact have been there for some time.

    PS: "Squeeze like a vise", although the white elite surely have plenty of vice and it may be squeezing them, I'm sure you meant "vise".

    Replies: @Bill P, @Desiderius

  58. @jorge videla
    @Desiderius

    When will Murray and friends face THAT reality and repair the damage it has done to our nation and her people?

    what nation? what people? you sound like a cuckservative. the debate is over and hitler won.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    My nation. My people. All Schiklgruber won was a shallow grave and a century of abject humiliation for his people. I want better for my boys.

    You don’t like it go back to Bolivia.

    • Replies: @res
    @Desiderius


    You don’t like it go back to Bolivia.
     
    Do you have any sense of who he actually is? (I don't mean in a doxing sense, more in terms of personal characteristics) His namesake of course was an Argentinian dictator. He posts under a number of aliases here, at Steve Hsu's blog, and at Pumpkin Person's blog (likely many other places as well). These 2015 blog posts give some background.
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/10/06/hannibal-lecter-vs-jorge-videlamugabe/
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/12/20/the-roots-of-his-rage/

    Replies: @Desiderius

  59. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/whyvert/status/1062553759493046272

    Replies: @photondancer

    Every book on psychology I’ve ever read has emphasised that it’s people, not bodies or brains, that experience mental states such as depression. This tweet is bizarre. I can’t work out why s/he felt the need to rephrase or what it’s supposed to achieve. Is she claiming that the body is diseased while the mind (soul) remains pure and free of taint?

  60. @Whiskey
    @Altai

    Agreed, and the anti-White animus is driven by the extraordinary levels of black people running things.

    A black Secretary of Defense is purging the military, from top to bottom, of Whites. There goes US military effectiveness. To Nigerian levels.

    Hollywood? Used to be Jewish, and you could even see now and then White heroes on TV and movies. Now its pretty much all black. Black black black black black blackety black. Same with commercials, TV, streaming, sportsball. All black.

    Corporations? All black, all the time. Black black black black blackety black black.

    White men have no stake, say, or representation at any level of this nation. And it happened basically with Obama onwards, so rapidly.

    White men figure likely: the bad old segregationists were correct. That also, White women are the enemy and need to be repressed. With a good dose of kids and kitchen work. [A full 44% of White women with college love CRT. ] That its back to blood, as Tom Wolfe predicted. What really is the modern Western society for White men who are not homosexuals? It has nothing, nothing at all to recommend it. And they have no place in it, and never will. Neither do their heroes, history, or heritage. Their lives will be nothing more than one long lifetime grovel before KANGZ.

    That is a bullet that cannot be called back.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Liza

    “the anti-White animus is driven by the extraordinary levels of black people running things”

    LOL.

    Whiskey can rival Steve for deadpan humour.

    • Agree: Liza
  61. @AndrewR
    @Rob

    It has got to be very psychologically painful for a black person to accept HBD. In fairness to blacks, there is an extreme aversion among race-conscious whites to even entertaining the idea that Jews might be a superior race, akin to normies whites' aversion to admitting that Jewish success is much more attributable to nepotism and ethnocentrism than to "valuing education." But the facts certainly speak for themselves. Why are so many whites susceptible to Jewish control? Literal cattle and sheep are probably completely unaware of their nature and completely happy with living a pastoral life, under the control of their human and canine superiors. Perhaps the same can be said of most whites.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    Liz Truss, UK Tory Equalities Minister, speaking to Times Radio

    “My role as equality minister is to make sure everybody in Britain is treated equally regardless of their sex, their sexuality and their race. What we have seen over the past few years is the development of identity politics where there has been division created. People are described as being members of a group rather than for their own personal, individual humanity and dignity… We have just launched for example a big data project looking where are the gaps in education, employment and enterprise across the country, and how we can fix those. That is the approach we need to take… I think some of the identity politics we have seen focus on symbolism over real results has been divisive… I think most people aren’t interested in this so–called culture war, what they’re interested in is, “Am I being given a fair chance? Do I have a good chance of getting a job? Am I treated fairly by public services?” And that’s why I think our equality agenda should focus on, those bread and butter issues that are of concern to everyone in the country.”

    Fixing The Gap is alive and well in the UK.

    “Am I treated fairly by public services?”

    That’s a laugh. All white public servants are heavily indoctrinated and will always tend to favour minorities, racial or sexual, for their job or career’s sake. Non-whites will favour their own group as usual.

    See how fairly the abused girls in Rotherham and many other places were treated!

    Talking of which…

    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19318365.social-worker-recalls-girl-frightened-amid-allegations/

    An underage girl who is accusing seven men of historic sexual offences has been described as frightened and very underweight by a social worker who assessed her at the time.

    Nazir Khan, 28, of no fixed abode, faces two rape allegations; Usman Sultan, 28, of Lawkholme Lane, Keighley, faces four rape allegations; Kamran Hussain, 28, of Hawk Street, Keighley, faces two counts of rape; Ali Razaq, 26, of Hawk Street, Keighley, faces one count of rape; Sohail Hussain, 30, of Skipton Road, Keighley, faces five counts of rape; Hasan Ali, 28, of Hollings Lane, Keighley, faces two counts of rape.

    A seventh man, Kasam Hussain, 30, of Lister Street, Keighley, faces one charge of intentionally inciting a girl aged under 16 to engage in sexual activity.

    The seven defendants are on trial facing a total of 17 counts between them and all seven pleaded not guilty to all charges against them.

    The charges against the defendants date between 2008 and 2009.

  62. Anon[409] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Derbyshire
    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @northeast, @Barnard, @MEH 0910, @AKAHorace, @Anon

    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.

    The clip with Murray aired by Tucker last night was incredibly lame. All about Murray lamenting that the United States is now more focused on race than it was when he grew up.

    Nothing about group differences.

    • Replies: @res
    @Anon


    Nothing about group differences.
     
    That's not how the HuffPo saw it. Search for "Tucker Carlson Guest Claims Black People Have Lower IQs Than White" Or see this tweet (included for the humorous appeal to "science!").

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1405576715376672775

    Replies: @Anon

  63. @Anonymous
    I expect this time around the mainstream media will ignore Murray's controversial ideas on race, IQ and socioeconomic status as much as possible. They don't want any "bad" ideas gaining potential traction with the public just when it seems like they've finally achieved a complete ideological stranglehold over society.

    But just to put things in perspective, the original Bell Curve was given lead coverage in many mainstream publications back in 1994. It made the actual covers of Newsweek magazine, the left of center New Republic, the right of center (and pre-purge) National Review as well as the New York Times Sunday magazine.
    (https://fair.org/home/racism-resurgent/)

    The Times' science writer Malcolm Browne not only recommended The Bell Curve to his readers but also Seymour Itzkoff's The Decline of Intelligence in America and Philippe Rushton's Race, Evolution and Behavior. He prefaced his review of these three books with the ominous warning that "The government or society that persists in sweeping their subject matter under the rug will do so at its peril." (https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/00/06/04/specials/herrnstein-bell.html)

    Even then-President Bill Clinton was asked by reporters about his thoughts on The Bell Curve, and responded by saying that he was "outraged" by the thrust of the book.
    Meanwhile, boomercon House speaker Newt Gingrich said through his neo-con spokesman Tony Blankley that the Bell Curve was "completely wrong." Ditto for the then-House Leader Richard Armey, who said he hadn't read it and couldn't comment. Establishment Republican talking heads across the board were flat-out dismissive of The Bell Curve's and its findings.
    (https://jonathantilove.com/charles-murrays-bell-curve/)

    Replies: @Anon

    Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too.

    They do? Like what?

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Anon


    Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too.

     

    They do? Like what?

    They have a eugenic culture surrounding marriage.

    They aren't supposed to outmarry and the women are encouraged to marry a professional or successful business owner even if they aren't sexually attracted to him.

    In WASP culture it is much more accepted to marry purely out of attraction or personal compatibility.

    Replies: @CaptObvious

  64. Anonymous[252] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    There is already a hit on Drudge about it linking to The Spectator abridged story by Murray. Center Column.

    Which is somewhat surprising given Drudge’s strange political move in the last year or two.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Charles Murray like Drudge vilified Trump for 4 years and voted for Biden in 2020.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Anonymous

    Charles Murray like Drudge vilified Trump for 4 years and voted for Biden in 2020.

    Drudge is a fag. Gay Republicans don't usually like strong willed men.

    Murray is a self-described libertarian.

    Trump would have been re-elected if registered libertarians didn't waste their 1% vote.

    But these are people that think selling fully auto AK-47s to felons is a good idea.

    Not the best judgement as a group

  65. Why bother with subtleties? Here it is, in a few words …

    Latinos are good at organized crime violence.
    Blacks are good at mindless violence.
    Asians are good at amassing wealth through robotic mindset.
    Europeans are good at building and destroying their own civilization.

  66. @MEH 0910

    Here’s F. Roger Devlin’s review in VDARE.
     
    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1405138177459949574

    https://twitter.com/UnzReview/status/1405002983574806528

    Replies: @anon, @Barnard, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Desiderius, @Dan Hayes

    Charles Murray: “The reviewer is not pleased. Thankfully.” What a despicable and awful comment by a despicable and awful Murray!

    The next time Murray get pummeled (literally and figuratively) by his critics, don’t expect any sympathy from me!

    Contrast Murray’s usual pusillanimous behavior with that of his late coauthor, Richard Herrnstein!

  67. 5. The answer is 5.

    Murray might as well give a lecture to an empty auditorium.

    The people he is trying to talk to already know what he has to say and have no interest in hearing him.

    The only way out of this mess is to speak to the public.

    Our establishment is well aware of racial differences and plans on mitigating them by turning the country into clown world. That is much safer for the stock market than admitting to White people that they have been lied to for 50+ years. White people might get pissed and do something crazy like question academic authority or rapacious capitalism.

    Better to go with clown world.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @John Johnson


    Our establishment is well aware of racial differences and plans on mitigating them by turning the country into clown world.
     
    The way to mitigate racial differences is for whites to intermarry with Black people and have mixed children.
  68. Saw Murray on Carlson’s podcast. He expressed the hope that people would be understood as individuals trying to navigate their way through life rather than as part of some “group.”

    Well intended, but that train left the the station back in ’64.

  69. “… American blacks, who are the wealthiest blacks on earth.”

    You’ve noticed that, eh?

  70. res says:
    @Anon
    Glenn Loury has Murray on his "The Glenn Show" video podcast at Bloggingheads this coming Monday, with John McWhorter in attendance, I believe. This show has gained prominence. Meghan Daum credited it with her shift away from garden-variety woke:

    I was a particular fan of the monthly dialogue between the economist and professor Glenn Loury and the linguist and literature professor John McWhorter. Calling themselves “the Black Guys on Bloggingheads,” they talked about racial politics with more candor and (ahem) nuance than I’d probably ever heard in my life. They even dared to do what few in the left-leaning chatterati were willing to do: hold the writer Ta-Nehisi Coates up to scrutiny.
     
    If you remember when Penn law professor Amy Wax got into hot water when she said blacks were never in the top 10 percent of her classes, rarely in the top half, and mostly in the bottom 10 percent, that happened of "The Glenn Show."

    Loury decided, against the advice of John McWhorter, his black sidekick on his show, to do an hour-long interview with Tucker Carlson this week, and he did an hour on the "Rubin Report." Loury is critical of black culture, in a sort of Bill Cosby way, which is considered blaming the victim by the left.

    I think an appearance on "The Glenn Show" is not something that can easily be ignored. (Rubin is another matter). Loury and McWhorter are really sharp interviewers. Loury in particular specializes in listening intently and then steelmanning his guest's case, before offering his own opinion. Loury is on the econometrics side of economics and is not intimidated by math and numbers, which is relevant for Murray's book.

    In the case of The Bell Curve, the publisher famously sent out review copies only to a selected list of friendly writers, under embargo, but did not send copies to critics considered potentially hostile. I wonder if they repeated that tactic with Facing Reality? If they did, reviewers would have to obtain and read the book, take a little time to digest it and come up with their response, and depending on the outlet, do a pitch. So there could be reviews, but delayed.

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910

    Glenn Loury has Murray on his “The Glenn Show” video podcast at Bloggingheads this coming Monday, with John McWhorter in attendance, I believe.

    Loury decided, against the advice of John McWhorter, his black sidekick on his show, to do an hour-long interview with Tucker Carlson this week, and he did an hour on the “Rubin Report.” Loury is critical of black culture, in a sort of Bill Cosby way, which is considered blaming the victim by the left.

    Those sound worth following up on. Thanks. Hopefully iSteve will discuss, or we can add some OT comments with links once available.

    In the case of The Bell Curve, the publisher famously sent out review copies only to a selected list of friendly writers, under embargo, but did not send copies to critics considered potentially hostile.

    I did not know that. Thanks. Do you have any links to discussion of that? I would have expected it to be controversial.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @res

    The tardy NYT review of Murray's last book mentioned the story about The Bell Curve being withheld from unfriendly reviewers, and cited a name as a source. The NYT reviewer was a staffer, a dot-Indian woman with no particular expertise in the subject.

  71. res says:
    @Bill P
    I don't know how Murray gets away with pretending that white racial consciousness is alien to America. Aside from a few periods in our history it's been the norm. It's still pretty common, and thanks to the democrats it's bound to return with greater enthusiasm.

    I don't buy the idea that whites are special in that they are uniquely antiracist. It's a sham. We're pretty much the same as other people in that regard, but for the last few decades lots and lots of whites have profited from immigration, public service jobs that cater to black needs, and status signalling among others.

    America's defining national creed is material prosperity, not equality, liberty or democracy. We built our system to preserve, above all, our right to prosper. Nothing wrong with that. It worked really well. It even worked for American blacks, who are the wealthiest blacks on earth. In fact, if you want to base a civilization on anything, prosperity would probably be the most popular choice. It is in that sense that we are most democratic.

    As for liberty and equality we aren't so high up there. American Indians had more liberty than we do, and probably more equality, but we smashed them all the same to advance prosperity, which they really weren't very good at, with a few exceptions, such as the Mandan, whom we admired because they were rich.

    Getting to the point, we've pretty much run out of free land and resources, and we've got a lot more people. Increasingly, prosperity is a zero-sum game, so a lot more people are putting effort into taking stuff from others. That's always happened, but it's grown in scale and proportion. So you look at who has the most stuff to take, and it's white men. And there you see how this whole equity thing has come about.

    But there's a problem with it, and not only the problem of extracting the wealth. The problem is that most rich whites seem to have hastily jumped on the bandwagon. Working age working class whites don't have all that much to take anymore. This is why the SALT tax cap won't be repealed despite all the screaming in NY and CA. Personally, I think that cap contributed a lot more to Trump hatred than people are letting on.

    So now that rich whites find themselves in the cross hairs, how do they react? With irrational spite. They try to shove castration and racial shame on our children. "That'll teach 'em!"

    Again, it backfires. Most of the girls and boys sexually mutilating themselves turn out to be upper middle class. How do working class whites react? Well, judging from what I've seen over the past year they're immune to it (i.e. they don't notice it because they're more interested in tiktok) or they resent it and develop contempt for teachers. I wouldn't want to be a teacher today!

    And that highlights another problem. The feeder line that replenishes the upper classes with talented working and middle class white kids is starting to fail. These talented youths provide fresh blood, energy and ambition. Some end up as excellent managers and executives, and some end up as much-needed down to earth, pragmatic wives of rich young men. That's not going to happen as much when these kids believe the elites despise their moms and dads. So instead of joining the elite, they'll form a competing elite.

    All this will squeeze the current white elite like a vice. They will get defensive, scared and increasingly hostile and irrational. It will turn into a positive feedback where everything they do makes them more hated and consequently more punitive and hostile. They're in a bad place, and I can kind of see that Charles Murray is trying to get them to pull their heads out of their asses, but as he admits it's probably already too late.

    But as far as preventing white racial identity from forming, especially in a racial competition for prosperity, that's a pipe dream. Repressing it would burn up so much political capital and human resources that we'd all end up much poorer and our country much diminished. They might try it anyway, but Murray certainly shouldn't offer them any moral justification for doing so.

    Replies: @res, @anon

    Interesting comment overall. Thanks.

    Working age working class whites don’t have all that much to take anymore. This is why the SALT tax cap won’t be repealed despite all the screaming in NY and CA. Personally, I think that cap contributed a lot more to Trump hatred than people are letting on.

    Interesting thought. It doesn’t speak directly to your point, but I think this analysis of the SALT effects by income groups and states provides some good background.
    https://taxfoundation.org/salt-deduction-salt-cap-repeal/

  72. res says:
    @Desiderius
    @jorge videla

    My nation. My people. All Schiklgruber won was a shallow grave and a century of abject humiliation for his people. I want better for my boys.

    You don’t like it go back to Bolivia.

    Replies: @res

    You don’t like it go back to Bolivia.

    Do you have any sense of who he actually is? (I don’t mean in a doxing sense, more in terms of personal characteristics) His namesake of course was an Argentinian dictator. He posts under a number of aliases here, at Steve Hsu’s blog, and at Pumpkin Person’s blog (likely many other places as well). These 2015 blog posts give some background.
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/10/06/hannibal-lecter-vs-jorge-videlamugabe/
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/12/20/the-roots-of-his-rage/

    • Thanks: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @res

    Nope, didn't even Google the name.

    Lucky guess.

  73. @res

    Murray suggests his Violent Crime by Zip Code database might be of particular interest.
     
    Have you taken a look, Steve? For anyone interested, it is an XLSX file of about 89 MB and 500k rows. Does anyone know if a data dictionary exists for it? It looks there are quite a few ZIP code overall fields lumped in with the individual arrests (IMHO two tables, one for arrests and one for zip codes, would have saved significant space and made things a bit easier to work with).

    The arrests portion is fairly straightforward, but different conventions for the age column (age vs. bucket ranges) is a bit inconvenient. I can kind of make out the zip code information (mostly demographics), but not with confidence.

    Replies: @David

    Data dictionary for the Violent Crime by Zip file starts top of page 7.

    https://www.encounterbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Documentation-for-the-Data-Files-0615.pdf

    • Replies: @res
    @David

    Thanks! That is very detailed and helpful.

  74. @res
    @Anon


    Glenn Loury has Murray on his “The Glenn Show” video podcast at Bloggingheads this coming Monday, with John McWhorter in attendance, I believe.
    ...
    Loury decided, against the advice of John McWhorter, his black sidekick on his show, to do an hour-long interview with Tucker Carlson this week, and he did an hour on the “Rubin Report.” Loury is critical of black culture, in a sort of Bill Cosby way, which is considered blaming the victim by the left.
     
    Those sound worth following up on. Thanks. Hopefully iSteve will discuss, or we can add some OT comments with links once available.

    In the case of The Bell Curve, the publisher famously sent out review copies only to a selected list of friendly writers, under embargo, but did not send copies to critics considered potentially hostile.
     
    I did not know that. Thanks. Do you have any links to discussion of that? I would have expected it to be controversial.

    Replies: @Anon

    The tardy NYT review of Murray’s last book mentioned the story about The Bell Curve being withheld from unfriendly reviewers, and cited a name as a source. The NYT reviewer was a staffer, a dot-Indian woman with no particular expertise in the subject.

  75. @Whiskey
    @Altai

    Agreed, and the anti-White animus is driven by the extraordinary levels of black people running things.

    A black Secretary of Defense is purging the military, from top to bottom, of Whites. There goes US military effectiveness. To Nigerian levels.

    Hollywood? Used to be Jewish, and you could even see now and then White heroes on TV and movies. Now its pretty much all black. Black black black black black blackety black. Same with commercials, TV, streaming, sportsball. All black.

    Corporations? All black, all the time. Black black black black blackety black black.

    White men have no stake, say, or representation at any level of this nation. And it happened basically with Obama onwards, so rapidly.

    White men figure likely: the bad old segregationists were correct. That also, White women are the enemy and need to be repressed. With a good dose of kids and kitchen work. [A full 44% of White women with college love CRT. ] That its back to blood, as Tom Wolfe predicted. What really is the modern Western society for White men who are not homosexuals? It has nothing, nothing at all to recommend it. And they have no place in it, and never will. Neither do their heroes, history, or heritage. Their lives will be nothing more than one long lifetime grovel before KANGZ.

    That is a bullet that cannot be called back.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Liza

    God forgive me, but this is funny (in an awful way). Doncha love the training scene.

    https://soulbrotherv2.tumblr.com/post/56524408983/robert-crumbs-when-the-niggers-take-over

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Liza

    ...You really think you're going to have it that easy?

    , @John Johnson
    @Liza

    Why do you have to post that degenerate garbage? That is the same guy that wrote comics about beastiality and rape.

    Everyone thinks Whites are easy to rule over until a Vlad comes along.

    It's all fun and games until you get impaled.

    Replies: @Liza

  76. anon[397] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    I don't know how Murray gets away with pretending that white racial consciousness is alien to America. Aside from a few periods in our history it's been the norm. It's still pretty common, and thanks to the democrats it's bound to return with greater enthusiasm.

    I don't buy the idea that whites are special in that they are uniquely antiracist. It's a sham. We're pretty much the same as other people in that regard, but for the last few decades lots and lots of whites have profited from immigration, public service jobs that cater to black needs, and status signalling among others.

    America's defining national creed is material prosperity, not equality, liberty or democracy. We built our system to preserve, above all, our right to prosper. Nothing wrong with that. It worked really well. It even worked for American blacks, who are the wealthiest blacks on earth. In fact, if you want to base a civilization on anything, prosperity would probably be the most popular choice. It is in that sense that we are most democratic.

    As for liberty and equality we aren't so high up there. American Indians had more liberty than we do, and probably more equality, but we smashed them all the same to advance prosperity, which they really weren't very good at, with a few exceptions, such as the Mandan, whom we admired because they were rich.

    Getting to the point, we've pretty much run out of free land and resources, and we've got a lot more people. Increasingly, prosperity is a zero-sum game, so a lot more people are putting effort into taking stuff from others. That's always happened, but it's grown in scale and proportion. So you look at who has the most stuff to take, and it's white men. And there you see how this whole equity thing has come about.

    But there's a problem with it, and not only the problem of extracting the wealth. The problem is that most rich whites seem to have hastily jumped on the bandwagon. Working age working class whites don't have all that much to take anymore. This is why the SALT tax cap won't be repealed despite all the screaming in NY and CA. Personally, I think that cap contributed a lot more to Trump hatred than people are letting on.

    So now that rich whites find themselves in the cross hairs, how do they react? With irrational spite. They try to shove castration and racial shame on our children. "That'll teach 'em!"

    Again, it backfires. Most of the girls and boys sexually mutilating themselves turn out to be upper middle class. How do working class whites react? Well, judging from what I've seen over the past year they're immune to it (i.e. they don't notice it because they're more interested in tiktok) or they resent it and develop contempt for teachers. I wouldn't want to be a teacher today!

    And that highlights another problem. The feeder line that replenishes the upper classes with talented working and middle class white kids is starting to fail. These talented youths provide fresh blood, energy and ambition. Some end up as excellent managers and executives, and some end up as much-needed down to earth, pragmatic wives of rich young men. That's not going to happen as much when these kids believe the elites despise their moms and dads. So instead of joining the elite, they'll form a competing elite.

    All this will squeeze the current white elite like a vice. They will get defensive, scared and increasingly hostile and irrational. It will turn into a positive feedback where everything they do makes them more hated and consequently more punitive and hostile. They're in a bad place, and I can kind of see that Charles Murray is trying to get them to pull their heads out of their asses, but as he admits it's probably already too late.

    But as far as preventing white racial identity from forming, especially in a racial competition for prosperity, that's a pipe dream. Repressing it would burn up so much political capital and human resources that we'd all end up much poorer and our country much diminished. They might try it anyway, but Murray certainly shouldn't offer them any moral justification for doing so.

    Replies: @res, @anon

    And that highlights another problem. The feeder line that replenishes the upper classes with talented working and middle class white kids is starting to fail

    To the Upper Class and Upper Middle Class this is considered a feature, not a bug. There is an obvious excess of “elites”, per Peter Turchin, so it is to be expected the UMC wants to pull up the metaphorical ladder. This is the real reason for discontinuation of the SAT and ACT; those tests enable the children of middle class families in flyover to have a chance of legit competition with the children of the UMC.

    Downward mobility actually does a service to the social order, but naturally nobody in the UMC sees it that way, and it’s understandable because no one wants that for their own children. So we get absurd bits of corruption involving college acceptance scandals, and likely more such are on the way.

    All this will squeeze the current white elite like a vice. They will get defensive, scared and increasingly hostile and irrational. It will turn into a positive feedback where everything they do makes them more hated and consequently more punitive and hostile.

    We are already there, and in fact have been there for some time.

    PS: “Squeeze like a vise”, although the white elite surely have plenty of vice and it may be squeezing them, I’m sure you meant “vise”.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @anon

    Yeah, vise. I often type phonetically when I don't look at what I'm writing, so homonyms get mixed up. It's a weird phenomenon that gave me an insight into how my brain handles multitasking.

    Replies: @Bill P

    , @Desiderius
    @anon


    Downward mobility actually does a service to the social order, but naturally nobody in the UMC sees it that way
     
    Odysseus sneaking all over this site.

    There's more than one dimension and even among those most concerned with that one not all are blinkered as to the bigger picture. It is from among these that the religious are called.
  77. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/lawrencekingyo/status/1405266538739879938

    Replies: @Known Fact

    It does get annoying when people end a blunt thought by actually writing out “Period. End of sentence.”

  78. Does Murray’s book put Amazon in an uncomfortable position?

  79. @anon
    @Bill P

    And that highlights another problem. The feeder line that replenishes the upper classes with talented working and middle class white kids is starting to fail

    To the Upper Class and Upper Middle Class this is considered a feature, not a bug. There is an obvious excess of "elites", per Peter Turchin, so it is to be expected the UMC wants to pull up the metaphorical ladder. This is the real reason for discontinuation of the SAT and ACT; those tests enable the children of middle class families in flyover to have a chance of legit competition with the children of the UMC.

    Downward mobility actually does a service to the social order, but naturally nobody in the UMC sees it that way, and it's understandable because no one wants that for their own children. So we get absurd bits of corruption involving college acceptance scandals, and likely more such are on the way.

    All this will squeeze the current white elite like a vice. They will get defensive, scared and increasingly hostile and irrational. It will turn into a positive feedback where everything they do makes them more hated and consequently more punitive and hostile.

    We are already there, and in fact have been there for some time.

    PS: "Squeeze like a vise", although the white elite surely have plenty of vice and it may be squeezing them, I'm sure you meant "vise".

    Replies: @Bill P, @Desiderius

    Yeah, vise. I often type phonetically when I don’t look at what I’m writing, so homonyms get mixed up. It’s a weird phenomenon that gave me an insight into how my brain handles multitasking.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @Bill P

    *homophone

  80. @Liza
    @Whiskey

    God forgive me, but this is funny (in an awful way). Doncha love the training scene.



    https://soulbrotherv2.tumblr.com/post/56524408983/robert-crumbs-when-the-niggers-take-over

    Replies: @Truth, @John Johnson

    …You really think you’re going to have it that easy?

  81. @Anon
    @Anonymous


    Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too.
     
    They do? Like what?

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too.

    They do? Like what?

    They have a eugenic culture surrounding marriage.

    They aren’t supposed to outmarry and the women are encouraged to marry a professional or successful business owner even if they aren’t sexually attracted to him.

    In WASP culture it is much more accepted to marry purely out of attraction or personal compatibility.

    • Replies: @CaptObvious
    @John Johnson


    They have a eugenic culture surrounding marriage.
     
    We have a eugenic culture when it comes to genetic defects, sure. Every couple routinely gets tested before having children to make sure both parents aren't carriers of something recessive, because no one wants a flipper baby. And you'll rarely see a Jewish couple with, say, a kid with Down's Syndrome, because we're not idiots, we test for that sort of thing as soon as we can, and we have no issue aborting defectives.

    They aren’t supposed to outmarry and the women are encouraged to marry a professional or successful business owner even if they aren’t sexually attracted to him.
     
    Eh, this is a lot shakier. For not being supposed to outmarry, we sure do a ton of it. Only the strictly observant don't outmarry -- and they don't integrate with broader society or have any of the sort of influence over it that tends to freak Unz readers out.

    In reality, parents would prefer their children marry other Jews so their grandchildren will be raised Jewish. Being a Jew, your social circle includes a bunch of other Jews, so sure, a lot of the time you do meet a nice Jewish girl and marry her, just like your parents wanted. But if you fall in love with a shiksa and marry her? Your parents moan a bit, but you still marry her.

    As for the whole 'professional / successful business owner' thing -- in reality, if you're a liberal Jew in America, you can marry who you like, but Jewish parents do talk to their kids about life, and how life is a lot harder if you marry a deadbeat, and how attraction is important but it's not the only important thing and that they'll be happier in the long run if they marry someone as smart and ambitious as themselves. Then the kids make their own decisions.

    In WASP culture it is much more accepted to marry purely out of attraction or personal compatibility.
     
    So do we, we just also have conversations about money, ambition, and intelligence.

    Why don't you goyim also tell their kids this stuff? It's not like it's rocket science.
  82. @anon
    @Bill P

    And that highlights another problem. The feeder line that replenishes the upper classes with talented working and middle class white kids is starting to fail

    To the Upper Class and Upper Middle Class this is considered a feature, not a bug. There is an obvious excess of "elites", per Peter Turchin, so it is to be expected the UMC wants to pull up the metaphorical ladder. This is the real reason for discontinuation of the SAT and ACT; those tests enable the children of middle class families in flyover to have a chance of legit competition with the children of the UMC.

    Downward mobility actually does a service to the social order, but naturally nobody in the UMC sees it that way, and it's understandable because no one wants that for their own children. So we get absurd bits of corruption involving college acceptance scandals, and likely more such are on the way.

    All this will squeeze the current white elite like a vice. They will get defensive, scared and increasingly hostile and irrational. It will turn into a positive feedback where everything they do makes them more hated and consequently more punitive and hostile.

    We are already there, and in fact have been there for some time.

    PS: "Squeeze like a vise", although the white elite surely have plenty of vice and it may be squeezing them, I'm sure you meant "vise".

    Replies: @Bill P, @Desiderius

    Downward mobility actually does a service to the social order, but naturally nobody in the UMC sees it that way

    Odysseus sneaking all over this site.

    There’s more than one dimension and even among those most concerned with that one not all are blinkered as to the bigger picture. It is from among these that the religious are called.

  83. @res
    @Desiderius


    You don’t like it go back to Bolivia.
     
    Do you have any sense of who he actually is? (I don't mean in a doxing sense, more in terms of personal characteristics) His namesake of course was an Argentinian dictator. He posts under a number of aliases here, at Steve Hsu's blog, and at Pumpkin Person's blog (likely many other places as well). These 2015 blog posts give some background.
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/10/06/hannibal-lecter-vs-jorge-videlamugabe/
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/12/20/the-roots-of-his-rage/

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Nope, didn’t even Google the name.

    Lucky guess.

  84. @Liza
    @Whiskey

    God forgive me, but this is funny (in an awful way). Doncha love the training scene.



    https://soulbrotherv2.tumblr.com/post/56524408983/robert-crumbs-when-the-niggers-take-over

    Replies: @Truth, @John Johnson

    Why do you have to post that degenerate garbage? That is the same guy that wrote comics about beastiality and rape.

    Everyone thinks Whites are easy to rule over until a Vlad comes along.

    It’s all fun and games until you get impaled.

    • Replies: @Liza
    @John Johnson

    @John. I did indeed pause before I posted that degenerate garbage, but somehow I could not resist, a moment of weakness. I thought that those images might cause some folks to give their head a shake.

    There's all kinds of people who think Crumb is some kind of genius, but I know he is just another disturbed comic book hack who would fit right in at Charlie Hebdo.

    I still wonder what his motivation was for W.T.N.T.O.A. The other crap he usually makes, it's just stuff spontaneously pouring out of his deranged noggin, but this had to be otherwise fuelled.

  85. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Charles Murray like Drudge vilified Trump for 4 years and voted for Biden in 2020.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Charles Murray like Drudge vilified Trump for 4 years and voted for Biden in 2020.

    Drudge is a fag. Gay Republicans don’t usually like strong willed men.

    Murray is a self-described libertarian.

    Trump would have been re-elected if registered libertarians didn’t waste their 1% vote.

    But these are people that think selling fully auto AK-47s to felons is a good idea.

    Not the best judgement as a group

  86. @Bill P
    @anon

    Yeah, vise. I often type phonetically when I don't look at what I'm writing, so homonyms get mixed up. It's a weird phenomenon that gave me an insight into how my brain handles multitasking.

    Replies: @Bill P

    *homophone

  87. @AndrewR
    @Christopher Chantrill

    There is some truth to your explanation, but I think a bigger factor is that wokeness keeps the plebs from uniting over the fact that these corporations are robbing us blind as taxpayers, consumers and workers.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    This is historically accurate, it organizationally grew out of the sabotaging of Occupy Wall Street.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @J.Ross

    And more generally from the replacement of the Old Left with the New Left.

  88. @AndrewR
    @MEH 0910

    Given the fanatical support Trump has enjoyed by tens of millions of people, blaming Trump for, well, anything seems like a copout. As much as I hate Hillary, she wasn't wrong with her infamous "deplorables" speech. At what point do we stop blaming individual politicians and start blaming the scumbags and fools who support them?

    Replies: @Charlesz Martel

    “How fortunate for politicians that men are fools.”
    Adolf Hitler

  89. anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Johnson
    5. The answer is 5.

    Murray might as well give a lecture to an empty auditorium.

    The people he is trying to talk to already know what he has to say and have no interest in hearing him.

    The only way out of this mess is to speak to the public.

    Our establishment is well aware of racial differences and plans on mitigating them by turning the country into clown world. That is much safer for the stock market than admitting to White people that they have been lied to for 50+ years. White people might get pissed and do something crazy like question academic authority or rapacious capitalism.

    Better to go with clown world.

    Replies: @anonymous

    Our establishment is well aware of racial differences and plans on mitigating them by turning the country into clown world.

    The way to mitigate racial differences is for whites to intermarry with Black people and have mixed children.

  90. @Paperback Writer
    That's an interesting question, and if the implication is correct (that Murray will get politely ignored) it points out that the real targets of the hard left aren't of the right, but of the center left. Witness the flagellation of Tom Hanks for being insufficiently woke. It's not enough for him to bemoan the death of "300" blacks in Tulsa, he's guilty for promoting white man heroism.

    I remember when CRT was but a gleam in Kendi's eye a couple of years ago and there was a kerfuffle about the movie Gone With the Wine. But it died down. No one is talking about yanking the book from the shelves. It's as if that battle isn't worthy of left's energy. Maybe they'll get around to mopping up poor old Margaret Mitchell when they've wiped out everything else, but for now, their prime targets are the center left.

    Replies: @Patrick McNally

    The funny thing about your comment is that Gone With the Wind is very much a Center-Left classic. You may be right that the bizarre caricature of it as “pro-Confederate” has blinded so many people that they are reasoning the way you describe. But it’s still pathetic if true. Gone With the Wind was no more “pro-Confederate” than All Quiet on the Western Front was “pro-Hohenzollern.” Both novels were byproducts of the post-WWI era when there was a lot of disillusionment with wars, particularly as the Great Depression seemed to show what a “world made safe for democracy” looked like.

    All Quiet on the Western Front has nothing to say about Hohenzollern Germany’s imperial ambitions, such as were documented decades later by Fritz Fischer. It really just tries to give a sympathetic portrait of an average German soldier stuck in the trenches. Despite this, the German Right-wing of the 1920s were antagonistic to the author’s message. It was obvious that he was not rallying people to go and die for another Kaiser or Fuehrer.

    Gone With the Wind came out much later vis a vis the American Civil War as opposed to All Quiet on the Western Front vis a vis the First World War. That is certainly part of what gave it a more friendly reception. Nobody in the South of the 1930s was trying to claim that the Confederates had only lost the war because of a stab in the back, the way that lying ideologues like Ludendorff tried to claim in Germany during the 1920s. Despite these differences in public reception, the parallel between the 2 books is obvious.

    Gone With the Wind portrays the South as a victim of its own hubris. There are obvious analogies between the way that the most reckless Southern spokesmen viewed the onset of the American Civil War and the way that many people across Europe in the summer of 1914 were convinced they would be “home by Christmas!” All of this is portrayed in Gone With the Wind as the great folly of whole society. It was not written to be the sort of novel which makes someone want to put on a Confederate uniform and go fight the Yanks. If properly understood it really is a Center-Left story.

  91. @Desiderius
    @MEH 0910

    I know Sun Tzu talks about the importance of knowing one's enemies.

    Does he say anything about those who refuse to know their friends? Who does Chuck think he's impressing here?

    Join. Or. Die. All of us. Sinners and tax collectors and snobs like Murray too. All.

    It is that simple.

    Replies: @Bill

    Murray is telling you he isn’t your friend. Just believe him.

  92. @J.Ross
    @AndrewR

    This is historically accurate, it organizationally grew out of the sabotaging of Occupy Wall Street.

    Replies: @Bill

    And more generally from the replacement of the Old Left with the New Left.

  93. @Anon
    @John Derbyshire


    I am reliably informed that Murray has taped an interview for the Tucker Carlson show.
     
    The clip with Murray aired by Tucker last night was incredibly lame. All about Murray lamenting that the United States is now more focused on race than it was when he grew up.

    Nothing about group differences.

    Replies: @res

    Nothing about group differences.

    That’s not how the HuffPo saw it. Search for “Tucker Carlson Guest Claims Black People Have Lower IQs Than White” Or see this tweet (included for the humorous appeal to “science!”).

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1405576715376672775

    • Replies: @Anon
    @res



    Nothing about group differences.
     
    That’s not how the HuffPo saw it. Search for “Tucker Carlson Guest Claims Black People Have Lower IQs Than White” Or see this tweet (included for the humorous appeal to “science!”).
     
    They appear to be reporting on the fuller interview that aired on the spin off show. Those statements weren’t aired on his prime time show.

    Replies: @res

  94. @David
    @res

    Data dictionary for the Violent Crime by Zip file starts top of page 7.

    https://www.encounterbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Documentation-for-the-Data-Files-0615.pdf

    Replies: @res

    Thanks! That is very detailed and helpful.

  95. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @res
    @Anon


    Nothing about group differences.
     
    That's not how the HuffPo saw it. Search for "Tucker Carlson Guest Claims Black People Have Lower IQs Than White" Or see this tweet (included for the humorous appeal to "science!").

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1405576715376672775

    Replies: @Anon

    Nothing about group differences.

    That’s not how the HuffPo saw it. Search for “Tucker Carlson Guest Claims Black People Have Lower IQs Than White” Or see this tweet (included for the humorous appeal to “science!”).

    They appear to be reporting on the fuller interview that aired on the spin off show. Those statements weren’t aired on his prime time show.

    • Replies: @res
    @Anon

    Thank you for clarifying. So your complaint about group differences not being mentioned on prime time would seem to belong to Fox and/or Tucker Carlson not Charles Murray, right?

    Here is a 1:09 clip: https://video.foxnews.com/v/6259192036001#sp=show-clips
    Is that the prime time version?

    It looks to me like the spin off show is on https://nation.foxnews.com/ which is pay only. Could someone who has that give us some information about that version of the interview? Content, length, ...?

  96. res says:
    @Anon
    @res



    Nothing about group differences.
     
    That’s not how the HuffPo saw it. Search for “Tucker Carlson Guest Claims Black People Have Lower IQs Than White” Or see this tweet (included for the humorous appeal to “science!”).
     
    They appear to be reporting on the fuller interview that aired on the spin off show. Those statements weren’t aired on his prime time show.

    Replies: @res

    Thank you for clarifying. So your complaint about group differences not being mentioned on prime time would seem to belong to Fox and/or Tucker Carlson not Charles Murray, right?

    Here is a 1:09 clip: https://video.foxnews.com/v/6259192036001#sp=show-clips
    Is that the prime time version?

    It looks to me like the spin off show is on https://nation.foxnews.com/ which is pay only. Could someone who has that give us some information about that version of the interview? Content, length, …?

  97. @Anon
    Glenn Loury has Murray on his "The Glenn Show" video podcast at Bloggingheads this coming Monday, with John McWhorter in attendance, I believe. This show has gained prominence. Meghan Daum credited it with her shift away from garden-variety woke:

    I was a particular fan of the monthly dialogue between the economist and professor Glenn Loury and the linguist and literature professor John McWhorter. Calling themselves “the Black Guys on Bloggingheads,” they talked about racial politics with more candor and (ahem) nuance than I’d probably ever heard in my life. They even dared to do what few in the left-leaning chatterati were willing to do: hold the writer Ta-Nehisi Coates up to scrutiny.
     
    If you remember when Penn law professor Amy Wax got into hot water when she said blacks were never in the top 10 percent of her classes, rarely in the top half, and mostly in the bottom 10 percent, that happened of "The Glenn Show."

    Loury decided, against the advice of John McWhorter, his black sidekick on his show, to do an hour-long interview with Tucker Carlson this week, and he did an hour on the "Rubin Report." Loury is critical of black culture, in a sort of Bill Cosby way, which is considered blaming the victim by the left.

    I think an appearance on "The Glenn Show" is not something that can easily be ignored. (Rubin is another matter). Loury and McWhorter are really sharp interviewers. Loury in particular specializes in listening intently and then steelmanning his guest's case, before offering his own opinion. Loury is on the econometrics side of economics and is not intimidated by math and numbers, which is relevant for Murray's book.

    In the case of The Bell Curve, the publisher famously sent out review copies only to a selected list of friendly writers, under embargo, but did not send copies to critics considered potentially hostile. I wonder if they repeated that tactic with Facing Reality? If they did, reviewers would have to obtain and read the book, take a little time to digest it and come up with their response, and depending on the outlet, do a pitch. So there could be reviews, but delayed.

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910

  98. • Replies: @res
    @MEH 0910

    Thanks. Those tweets show Glenn Loury at his best. Direct and willing to confront reality head on. Though I think the difference between potential and IQ test results is important (and Glenn is well aware of this and is choosing his words carefully).

    The replies (and the dogs that did not bark) to the last IQ test tweet are interesting. Imagine the response if someone else (especially someone white) made those tweets!

    Also interesting is Dave Pinsen's tweet in the thread of the second tweet.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1404584838145916929

  99. res says:
    @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/GlennLoury/status/1404514760096464899
    https://twitter.com/GlennLoury/status/1404516436366725135
    https://twitter.com/GlennLoury/status/1404522556984545282

    Replies: @res

    Thanks. Those tweets show Glenn Loury at his best. Direct and willing to confront reality head on. Though I think the difference between potential and IQ test results is important (and Glenn is well aware of this and is choosing his words carefully).

    The replies (and the dogs that did not bark) to the last IQ test tweet are interesting. Imagine the response if someone else (especially someone white) made those tweets!

    Also interesting is Dave Pinsen’s tweet in the thread of the second tweet.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
  100. @John Johnson
    @Liza

    Why do you have to post that degenerate garbage? That is the same guy that wrote comics about beastiality and rape.

    Everyone thinks Whites are easy to rule over until a Vlad comes along.

    It's all fun and games until you get impaled.

    Replies: @Liza

    @John. I did indeed pause before I posted that degenerate garbage, but somehow I could not resist, a moment of weakness. I thought that those images might cause some folks to give their head a shake.

    There’s all kinds of people who think Crumb is some kind of genius, but I know he is just another disturbed comic book hack who would fit right in at Charlie Hebdo.

    I still wonder what his motivation was for W.T.N.T.O.A. The other crap he usually makes, it’s just stuff spontaneously pouring out of his deranged noggin, but this had to be otherwise fuelled.

  101. @John Johnson
    @Anon


    Jews in Israel already practice eugenics. They do here, too.

     

    They do? Like what?

    They have a eugenic culture surrounding marriage.

    They aren't supposed to outmarry and the women are encouraged to marry a professional or successful business owner even if they aren't sexually attracted to him.

    In WASP culture it is much more accepted to marry purely out of attraction or personal compatibility.

    Replies: @CaptObvious

    They have a eugenic culture surrounding marriage.

    We have a eugenic culture when it comes to genetic defects, sure. Every couple routinely gets tested before having children to make sure both parents aren’t carriers of something recessive, because no one wants a flipper baby. And you’ll rarely see a Jewish couple with, say, a kid with Down’s Syndrome, because we’re not idiots, we test for that sort of thing as soon as we can, and we have no issue aborting defectives.

    They aren’t supposed to outmarry and the women are encouraged to marry a professional or successful business owner even if they aren’t sexually attracted to him.

    Eh, this is a lot shakier. For not being supposed to outmarry, we sure do a ton of it. Only the strictly observant don’t outmarry — and they don’t integrate with broader society or have any of the sort of influence over it that tends to freak Unz readers out.

    In reality, parents would prefer their children marry other Jews so their grandchildren will be raised Jewish. Being a Jew, your social circle includes a bunch of other Jews, so sure, a lot of the time you do meet a nice Jewish girl and marry her, just like your parents wanted. But if you fall in love with a shiksa and marry her? Your parents moan a bit, but you still marry her.

    As for the whole ‘professional / successful business owner’ thing — in reality, if you’re a liberal Jew in America, you can marry who you like, but Jewish parents do talk to their kids about life, and how life is a lot harder if you marry a deadbeat, and how attraction is important but it’s not the only important thing and that they’ll be happier in the long run if they marry someone as smart and ambitious as themselves. Then the kids make their own decisions.

    In WASP culture it is much more accepted to marry purely out of attraction or personal compatibility.

    So do we, we just also have conversations about money, ambition, and intelligence.

    Why don’t you goyim also tell their kids this stuff? It’s not like it’s rocket science.

  102. • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Facing "Facing Reality" | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNFGAwCAiAE


    Glenn Loury and John McWhorter debate the merits of Charles Murray's new book, Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America.
     

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  103. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/GlennLoury/status/1410371566572036096

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    Facing “Facing Reality” | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show

    Glenn Loury and John McWhorter debate the merits of Charles Murray’s new book, Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    ...and here, from within the entire episode, is a link to the last segment, where Glenn Loury offers a qualified defense of Charles Murray's book to counter John McWhorter's critique:

    Rejecting Racial Determinism | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_xc9fyt8ms&t=4332s


    0:00 A peek inside Glenn’s writing process
    3:31 Aaron Hana’s critique of Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele
    13:50 Extending the presumption of free will to Black communities
    19:31 Who gets to opine on race matters?
    32:09 Black rednecks
    44:31 Is the “acting white” phenomenon real?
    53:58 A critique of Charles Murray’s new book …
    1:12:12 … and a defense of same

    Glenn Loury (Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs, Brown University) and John McWhorter (Columbia University, Lexicon Valley, The Atlantic). Recorded June 29, 2021.
     
  104. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Facing "Facing Reality" | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNFGAwCAiAE


    Glenn Loury and John McWhorter debate the merits of Charles Murray's new book, Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America.
     

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    …and here, from within the entire episode, is a link to the last segment, where Glenn Loury offers a qualified defense of Charles Murray’s book to counter John McWhorter’s critique:

    Rejecting Racial Determinism | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show

    0:00 A peek inside Glenn’s writing process
    3:31 Aaron Hana’s critique of Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele
    13:50 Extending the presumption of free will to Black communities
    19:31 Who gets to opine on race matters?
    32:09 Black rednecks
    44:31 Is the “acting white” phenomenon real?
    53:58 A critique of Charles Murray’s new book …
    1:12:12 … and a defense of same

    Glenn Loury (Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs, Brown University) and John McWhorter (Columbia University, Lexicon Valley, The Atlantic). Recorded June 29, 2021.

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