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How Many Millions of Americans Were Internal Refugees from Crime?
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I’ve noticed a big push recently to get fear of crime made an automatic reason for achieving refugee status. For example, in the NYT:

Obama’s Death Sentence for Young Refugees
Nicholas Kristof JUNE 25, 2016

ON THE GUATEMALAN-MEXICAN BORDER — CRISTÓBAL, a 16-year-old Honduran refugee fleeing a drug gang that wants to kill him, has never heard of anyone named Barack Obama. Neither can he name the Mexican president, Enrique Peña Nieto.

But Cristóbal, along with many others, could end up being murdered because of these two presidents he is unaware of. Obama and Peña Nieto have cooperated for two years to intercept desperate Central American refugees in southern Mexico, long before they can reach the U.S. border. These refugees are then typically deported to their home countries — which can be a death sentence.

“If I’m sent back, they will kill me,” says Cristóbal, who is staying temporarily at a shelter for unaccompanied migrant kids in Mexico. He says he was forced to work for the gang as a cocaine courier beginning at age 14 — a gun was held to his head, and he was told he would be shot if he declined. He finally quit and fled after he witnessed gang members murder two of his friends. Now the gang is looking for him, he says, and it already sent a hit team to his home.

Yet he may well be sent back under a policy backed by Obama and Peña Nieto. I admire much about the Obama administration, including its fine words about refugees, but this policy is rank with deadly hypocrisy.

Now, Nicholas Kristof has an embarrassing track record of retelling lies people tell him. But even in the unlikely event that this kid’s story is somewhere close to the truth, is a 16 year old youth who already has two years experience in cocaine smuggling the ideal New American?

But anyway, that got me thinking … If fear of being a victim of crime qualifies you as a refugee, how many internal refugees did America suffer in the wake of the Warren Court and LBJ’s New Society helping launch a vast crime wave in urban America in the mid-1960s? How many displaced persons were there in America who get no sympathy in the history textbooks, or even are disparaged as racists engaged in the evils of White Flight?

Chicago PD investigates murder of 2 in Austin

Consider just one of Chicago’s 87 neighborhoods: Austin on the West Side, just east of Oak Park, IL. In 1960, it had 125,133 residents, almost all white. In 2010 it had 98,514 residents, almost none of them white. (Much of the once quite desirable housing stock has fallen into ruin under the newcomers.)

It would seem reasonable to say that 125,000 refugees were displaced by crime from the Austin neighborhood alone, although unlike Cristóbal, few of them were professional criminals themselves fleeing their former colleagues. Most were law-abiding citizens who fled Austin due to criminal violence against ordinary civilians like themselves, violence stoked by federal policies.

If there were 125,000 from Austin, how many displaced persons were there across America overall in this era? Five million? Ten million? Fifteen million?

I don’t know. Not too many people seem to know. It’s not the kind of history you are supposed to know about in 2016.

 
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  1. At least a million from Detroit, alone.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Anthony


    At least a million from Detroit, alone.
     
    Much more than one million.

    In 1950, Detroit had 1,545,847 white residents. As of the 2010 census, it is 75,000. But 20,000 of them are hispanics and many of the remainer are Arabs, so really from 1.56 million to something like 0.05 million, a decline of 97%.

    But 1.5 million is not even the full number, since many of Detroit's close-in suburbs suffered the same fate. Haiti-zation?

    River Rouge went from about 20,000 whites to 3,000 whites.
    Ecorse, from 17,000 whites to about 3,000.
    Highland Park, from about 50,000 whites to about 140, a decline of 99.8%.
    Hamtramck went from 56,000 mostly slavic americans to about 25,000 mostly Muslims. Lebanonization, not quite as bad as Haitization. So a decline of about 45,000 whites.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Lot

  2. “…is a 16 year old youth who already has two years experience in cocaine smuggling the ideal New American?”

    Steve, what makes you think it is permissible to consider the interests of the United States in the setting of U.S. immigration policy?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Richard of Melbourne

    Somebody should paint a picture of Emma Lazarus carving the Zeroth Amendment to the Bill of Rights onto the Statue of Liberty straight from the mouth of God.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Henry Bowman, @E. Harding, @Eric Novak, @Bill Jones

    , @Big Bill
    @Richard of Melbourne

    The kid doesn't have any problem with dope dealing, he has a problem with his current employers and fellow gang members.

    Fortunately, with the NYT help, he can come to America and find a better class of dope dealers to work for.

    The notion that he is going to get some job as a poor-but-honorable shoeshine making minimum wage is just silly.

    Would the NYT ever print a weepy immigration article in 1904 about a Sicilian mobster seeking refuge from the Mafia because he cheated them back in Sicily?

  3. @Richard of Melbourne
    "...is a 16 year old youth who already has two years experience in cocaine smuggling the ideal New American?"

    Steve, what makes you think it is permissible to consider the interests of the United States in the setting of U.S. immigration policy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Big Bill

    Somebody should paint a picture of Emma Lazarus carving the Zeroth Amendment to the Bill of Rights onto the Statue of Liberty straight from the mouth of God.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    , @Henry Bowman
    @Steve Sailer

    If I paid someone to do so in a light that reflected the tone you wanted would you use it? Honest question.

    , @E. Harding
    @Steve Sailer

    Your wish, Steve, is my command:

    https://goo.gl/DQfxMV

    , @Eric Novak
    @Steve Sailer

    Hey Steve, article suggestion: a family history of your wife's family's time in Austin, including their escape to suburbia. The emptying out of whites on Chicago's West Side in a decade is before my time and has only been recounted in legend and lore and only in bits over the decades. Many neighbors in my Portage Park neighborhood were refugees, but not many have wanted to discuss it. It's a dark cloud. My wife and I recently met a guy in his 50s, in Durango, CO, who moved there from the W. Side in the '70s and was eager to tell us the tale, although it's worth noting that his family moved to the far suburbs on the edge of the cornfields before moving to the Golden West.

    , @Bill Jones
    @Steve Sailer

    Somebody should point out that the original plan for the Statue was for it to be at the entrance to the Suez Canal but Isma'il Pasha, Khedive of Egypt was too cheap to pay for it.

    fkin Muslims.......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty

  4. Kristof has and embarrassing track record of retelling lies people tell him.

    Nine years on and I am still wondering if Obama speaks Indonesian. Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html

    Was Obama lying to him?

    • Replies: @TheJester
    @wren

    If only the public had known the real Obama ... "a street kid from Jakarta" with Muslim relatives and friends studying the Koran in an Indonesian elementary school, committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from "brown" and "black" countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    I unfortunately "drank the Kool-Aid" that he was a Black from Chicago working to reconcile the historic animosity between the American White and Black communities. Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM. The MSM seems to have intentionally misrepresented or otherwise camouflaged Obama's background. We are now seeing the same sleight-of-hand with the Hildebeast.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Old fogey, @Gato de la Biblioteca, @woodNfish, @Ace, @Jacques Sheete

    , @Bill
    @wren


    Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?
     
    I think that is one of the most humanizing Obama quotes. It is, indeed, a beautiful sound. And the facts that Obama has thought about a question like "what's the most beautiful sound on Earth" and that he's settled on a sung prayer as the answer almost make me doubt that he is a CIA android manufactured in Saruman's works.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Olorin, @Percy Gryce

  5. Slightly OT, but the supreme court is catching up with the times.

    The question of when police may perform a search and if the resulting evidence can be used in court, can and does apply to anyone. Yet she actually entered the following into the nation’s body of Supreme Court decisions.(Emphasis added)

    “For generations,” she wrote, “black and brown parents have given their children ‘the talk’ — instructing them never to run down the street; always keep your hands where they can be seen; do not even think of talking back to a stranger — all out of fear of how an officer with a gun will react to them.”

    “We must not pretend that the countless people who are routinely targeted by police are ‘isolated,’” she wrote. “They are the canaries in the coal mine whose deaths, civil and literal, warn us that no one can breathe in this atmosphere. They are the ones who recognize that unlawful police stops corrode all our civil liberties and threaten all our lives. Until their voices matter, too, our justice system will continue to be anything but.”

    Did you catch the underlying message there?

    An officer with a gun. (Every lethal force encounter between police and minority suspects)

    No one can breathe. (“I can’t breathe” Eric Garner)

    Until their voices matter. (Black Lives Matter)

    This wasn’t a Supreme Court dissent. It was a series of excerpts from a Black Lives Matter diatribe in a case which wasn’t even addressing questions of profiling or any other related issue.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/26/the-fourth-amendment-wasnt-created-to-protect-the-guilty/

    • Replies: @bomag
    @wren

    Pretty revealing. From her perch at the pinnacle of the legal profession, the Wise Latina subscribes to the casual notion that law enforcement is corrupt and unfair; kind of like a CEO trashing his product and employees.

    I haven't noticed this SCOTUS member using her power and influence to suggest ways to improve the situation. Instead, she's happy to repeat her handler's snark.

    Replies: @Jasper Been

    , @AndrewR
    @wren

    Sotomayor will go down I'm history as the most embarrassingly incompetent SCOTUS judge ever.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @Dirk Dagger
    @wren


    And let's get a couple things straight, a little side note, the burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That is not our job, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest--if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, don't make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

    We've been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we're done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we're magic doesn't mean were not real. Thank you. --2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)
     

    Replies: @JsP, @Anonymous Nephew, @peterike, @Hiram Abiff, @AnotherDad

  6. Nicholas Kristof could not possibly give a rat’s ass about America’s internal white refugees from non-white crime.

    Want to know why???

    Because these internal refugees were now forced to eat supermarket “white bread” in order to escape the degeneracy that took over their old neighborhoods.

    Mr Kristof knows full well from working at the NYT that “White Bread” eaters are not worth caring about.

    These white folks for a time had such bad taste and manners that they accepted “White Bread” as the price for escaping rapidly rising urban degeneracy.

    My own 2nd generation Sicilian dad would complain that moving to the suburbs in order to provide a safe home for his kids meant having to accept eating “white bread”.

    It took a generation for suburban supermarket chains to begin carrying a decent selection of breads and for the emergence of suburban bakeries.

    Heaven forbid that the goyim cared enough about their children that they were willing to accept for a time inferior bread.

    But now that the non-whites who took over the old urban neighborhoods now have nothing to spend their food stamps on but sh*tty mass produced white bread are they to be looked down upon???

    “White Bread” is simply the contemptuous kosher euphemism for the goyim’s preference for “Low Degeneracy” and criminality.

    It is the same neurotic sneer that TWMNBN who grew up on “The Authoritarian Personality” used when complaining about the “Disneyfication” of white suburbia.

    “White Bread”, Walt Disney, The Boy Scouts of America, Country Music what else could be surer signs of the coming Holocaust???

    • Agree: AndrewR, Nico
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Nicholas Kristof isn't Jewish. That subject has been discussed exhaustively in this website's comment section in the not so distant past. I, on the other hand, am Jewish and would never criticize your father or any other non-Jew who moved out to suburbia to avoid degeneracy and criminality.

  7. Lot says:
    @Anthony
    At least a million from Detroit, alone.

    Replies: @Lot

    At least a million from Detroit, alone.

    Much more than one million.

    In 1950, Detroit had 1,545,847 white residents. As of the 2010 census, it is 75,000. But 20,000 of them are hispanics and many of the remainer are Arabs, so really from 1.56 million to something like 0.05 million, a decline of 97%.

    But 1.5 million is not even the full number, since many of Detroit’s close-in suburbs suffered the same fate. Haiti-zation?

    River Rouge went from about 20,000 whites to 3,000 whites.
    Ecorse, from 17,000 whites to about 3,000.
    Highland Park, from about 50,000 whites to about 140, a decline of 99.8%.
    Hamtramck went from 56,000 mostly slavic americans to about 25,000 mostly Muslims. Lebanonization, not quite as bad as Haitization. So a decline of about 45,000 whites.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Lot

    Slavs are full fledged whites but Lebanese are plain old non-white?

    K.

    Replies: @Lot

    , @Lot
    @Lot

    A thought experiment.

    If the Detroit of 1950 were plopped onto the ruins of Detroit 2016, Detroit would be the city with the 2nd largest white population (1.54 million) in the USA, behind only New York City, and far ahead of Los Angeles 2016, which has 1.1 million non-hispanic whites, and nearly double Chicago, 860,000.

    Instead, Detroit is not even in the top 100 cities in the USA for white population, and has fewer whites than many of its individual suburbs, like Livonia, Troy, and Royal Oak.

    As for blaming the Jews, it was anti-Semite* Henry Ford, eager importer into Michigan of cheap black southern labor, and the end of the Eastern Euro immigration that he also supported that helped make mid-century Detroit one of the most beautiful and prosperous cities in the world to a bombed out Somalia Inferior.

    *I am allowed to call him an anti-semite without offense here? Was supporting Hitler in the 30's and publishing/subsidizing The International Jew enough to deserve the label?

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Brutusale

  8. Lot says:

    If there were 125,000 from Austin, how many displaced persons were there across America overall in this era? Five million? Ten million? Fifteen million?

    Probably more like 20 million. Perhaps 30 million if you include later white flight, which continues even now if places like Buffalo and Cleveland where the white minorities are still escaping to the suburbs as soon as they are able.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
    @Lot

    This is the great untold saga of post WW2 America- the expulsion of millions of Whites of every ethnic heritage from the great American Inner Cities.
    The consequences are enormous both at the personal and societal levels. It frequently entailed trauma from which the victims never fully recovered; the victimized in life can never recover that unconscious sense of safety the never victimized possess.
    On a societal level, it meant the death of the genuine "neighborhood"- "vibrant" once meant a warm, mutually supportive community where you knew and could rely on those around you.
    Its destruction on a massive scale led us into the "cocooning" so ably outlined in Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467042812&sr=1-1&keywords=bowling+alone
    It is the Great Unmentionable Fact of modern America.

    Replies: @Johnny

  9. Off topic: African migrants giving up on the Chinese Dream

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/index.html

    The type of Africans who migrated to China, however, were different to those moving West, Roberto Castillo, a lecturer in African Studies at Hong Kong University, tells CNN.

    “Those people [going to Europe] are usually disenfranchised, with no opportunities, looking to settle,” he says. “Africans in China are much more entrepreneurial. Many of them have the financial capability to move around and explore new places.”

    Indeed, 40% of African migrants surveyed for “Africans in China” had received at least tertiary education. Some held a PhD.

    • Replies: @Salger
    @Zach

    The Chinese don't have White Guilt and a Noble Savage myth for Dindus.

    , @anon
    @Zach

    The Chinese are not a bunch of saps like the western countries are. They don't feel any need to let the dregs of Africa into their lands unlike Europe. You had probably BETTER have a PHD if you are an African and want to go there.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  10. @Steve Sailer
    @Richard of Melbourne

    Somebody should paint a picture of Emma Lazarus carving the Zeroth Amendment to the Bill of Rights onto the Statue of Liberty straight from the mouth of God.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Henry Bowman, @E. Harding, @Eric Novak, @Bill Jones

    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @anonymous-antimarxist


    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.
     
    Compensating or "overcompensating" (for what?) after growing up in a college town is not a "thing". I grew up in a college town, and less than 1% of my Facebook friends from back home express any SJW opinions.

    Now, growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon -- that's different. Our one next-door neighbor did just that, and she is a loony liberal.

    Replies: @SFG, @anonymous-antimarxist, @Boomstick

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Nicholas Kristof is the poster child for everything wrong with the Left and Democrats. Kristof is self-important, conceited, ungrateful, and spiteful. We need a divorce - just like the Brits.

  11. Steve, your piece about Barry Latzer a week or so ago made me pull his book out of my pile of rapidly expiring library books. It’s great, but won’t really be news here, just depth, detail and perspective. And it definitely does not ignore “the most notable fact about street crime.” http://isteve.blogspot.com/2011/06/criminology-back-from-boredom.html

    Barry Latzer piece

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/what-drives-crimes-rates-up-and-down/

  12. Yep.

    So now it’s the highest mission of the USA to save Guatemalans from themselves.

    In other words a global lunatic asylum – with all the connotations that implies.

    • Agree: Ace
    • Replies: @appalled
    @Anonymous

    Evil YT, save us! Evil YT, we hate you! Evil YT, can we come to your land? Evil YT, can we get into affirmative action programs with the Africans, even though we are not the descendants of slaves? Thanks, Evil YT! You are such a sucker, err, I mean generous fool, err I mean, a really nice evil YT. Where's my welfare check?

    , @Connecticut Famer
    @Anonymous

    "In other words a global lunatic asylum"---under the supervision of Nurse Ratched Clinton.

  13. “So now it’s the highest mission of the USA to save Guatemalans from themselves.”

    Isn’t that the case whenever the U.S. gets itself involved in another country’s civil war? We hear reports of many Afghan men forming part of the immigrant invasion of Europe (thanks to Frau Merkel) while we have U.S. soldiers “advising” and dying in Afghanistan as we continue to wage the longest war in U.S. history, in essence fighting Afghanistan’s civil war (the Taliban, after all, are Afghans and did not attack us on 9/11). Back in the 2012 Republican campaign, Mitt Romney famously declared that the U.S. should not get involved in Afghanistan’s “war of independence.” Over on TAC, Larison posted a blog on the subject following a Republican debate, and I posted a response in which the odd formulation, “war of independence,” rather than “civil war,” was used by Romney. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/romney-and-wars-of-independence/comment-page-1/#comment-244923 Nevertheless, Romney was attacked by Sen. Lindsey Graham for his “isolationism.” BTW a year or so earlier, when talk of withdrawal from Afghanistan was in the air, Sen. Diane Feinstein asked on one of the Sunday talk shows “but who will take care of the Afghan women and girl?.” Who did she think American soldiers were protecting Afghan women and girls from if not Afghan men? Think if the U.S. followed the same rule we insisted on during our Civil War: no foreign involvement. Is there any place around the world where we would have fighting in the last 50 years or so? A civil war is just an excuse for the U.S. to get involved. If one doesn’t exist, then we will start one (Libya and Syria and Ukraine come to mind).

  14. Obviously, the Founding Fathers, such as Alexander Hamilton, built this country to be a haven for young Honduran drug dealers. Speaking of Hamilton, maybe Kristof’s new friend could land a rap solo in Lin-Manuel Miranda’s musical.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @JohnnyD

    "Obviously, the Founding Fathers, such as Alexander Hamilton, built this country to be a haven for young Honduran drug dealers."

    A little known fact is that Hamilton was himself a central American drug dealer. A transgendered one to boot. These facts - which will become true once somebody makes them up - will be widely publicized in high-school history essays (excuse me, xstory essays) and broadway musicals.

  15. @wren
    Slightly OT, but the supreme court is catching up with the times.

    ...

    The question of when police may perform a search and if the resulting evidence can be used in court, can and does apply to anyone. Yet she actually entered the following into the nation’s body of Supreme Court decisions.(Emphasis added)

    “For generations,” she wrote, “black and brown parents have given their children ‘the talk’ — instructing them never to run down the street; always keep your hands where they can be seen; do not even think of talking back to a stranger — all out of fear of how an officer with a gun will react to them.”

    “We must not pretend that the countless people who are routinely targeted by police are ‘isolated,’” she wrote. “They are the canaries in the coal mine whose deaths, civil and literal, warn us that no one can breathe in this atmosphere. They are the ones who recognize that unlawful police stops corrode all our civil liberties and threaten all our lives. Until their voices matter, too, our justice system will continue to be anything but.”

    Did you catch the underlying message there?

    An officer with a gun. (Every lethal force encounter between police and minority suspects)

    No one can breathe. (“I can’t breathe” Eric Garner)

    Until their voices matter. (Black Lives Matter)

    This wasn’t a Supreme Court dissent. It was a series of excerpts from a Black Lives Matter diatribe in a case which wasn’t even addressing questions of profiling or any other related issue.
     
    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/26/the-fourth-amendment-wasnt-created-to-protect-the-guilty/

    Replies: @bomag, @AndrewR, @Dirk Dagger

    Pretty revealing. From her perch at the pinnacle of the legal profession, the Wise Latina subscribes to the casual notion that law enforcement is corrupt and unfair; kind of like a CEO trashing his product and employees.

    I haven’t noticed this SCOTUS member using her power and influence to suggest ways to improve the situation. Instead, she’s happy to repeat her handler’s snark.

    • Replies: @Jasper Been
    @bomag

    On that note, I have been thinking, "wise latina" is not the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard, but it's up there. Sounds as coherent as "cottony potato."

  16. @Zach
    Off topic: African migrants giving up on the Chinese Dream

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/index.html

    The type of Africans who migrated to China, however, were different to those moving West, Roberto Castillo, a lecturer in African Studies at Hong Kong University, tells CNN.

    "Those people [going to Europe] are usually disenfranchised, with no opportunities, looking to settle," he says. "Africans in China are much more entrepreneurial. Many of them have the financial capability to move around and explore new places."

    Indeed, 40% of African migrants surveyed for "Africans in China" had received at least tertiary education. Some held a PhD.

    Replies: @Salger, @anon

    The Chinese don’t have White Guilt and a Noble Savage myth for Dindus.

  17. @wren
    Slightly OT, but the supreme court is catching up with the times.

    ...

    The question of when police may perform a search and if the resulting evidence can be used in court, can and does apply to anyone. Yet she actually entered the following into the nation’s body of Supreme Court decisions.(Emphasis added)

    “For generations,” she wrote, “black and brown parents have given their children ‘the talk’ — instructing them never to run down the street; always keep your hands where they can be seen; do not even think of talking back to a stranger — all out of fear of how an officer with a gun will react to them.”

    “We must not pretend that the countless people who are routinely targeted by police are ‘isolated,’” she wrote. “They are the canaries in the coal mine whose deaths, civil and literal, warn us that no one can breathe in this atmosphere. They are the ones who recognize that unlawful police stops corrode all our civil liberties and threaten all our lives. Until their voices matter, too, our justice system will continue to be anything but.”

    Did you catch the underlying message there?

    An officer with a gun. (Every lethal force encounter between police and minority suspects)

    No one can breathe. (“I can’t breathe” Eric Garner)

    Until their voices matter. (Black Lives Matter)

    This wasn’t a Supreme Court dissent. It was a series of excerpts from a Black Lives Matter diatribe in a case which wasn’t even addressing questions of profiling or any other related issue.
     
    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/26/the-fourth-amendment-wasnt-created-to-protect-the-guilty/

    Replies: @bomag, @AndrewR, @Dirk Dagger

    Sotomayor will go down I’m history as the most embarrassingly incompetent SCOTUS judge ever.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @AndrewR

    Yes, and you can't fool really smart people too. When the young Jewish and Chinese kids who are headed to the federal court system are reading excerpts of her opinions in university, they will recognize it. She is going to be a long-term embarrassment for Obama and the left.

  18. @Lot
    @Anthony


    At least a million from Detroit, alone.
     
    Much more than one million.

    In 1950, Detroit had 1,545,847 white residents. As of the 2010 census, it is 75,000. But 20,000 of them are hispanics and many of the remainer are Arabs, so really from 1.56 million to something like 0.05 million, a decline of 97%.

    But 1.5 million is not even the full number, since many of Detroit's close-in suburbs suffered the same fate. Haiti-zation?

    River Rouge went from about 20,000 whites to 3,000 whites.
    Ecorse, from 17,000 whites to about 3,000.
    Highland Park, from about 50,000 whites to about 140, a decline of 99.8%.
    Hamtramck went from 56,000 mostly slavic americans to about 25,000 mostly Muslims. Lebanonization, not quite as bad as Haitization. So a decline of about 45,000 whites.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Lot

    Slavs are full fledged whites but Lebanese are plain old non-white?

    K.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @AndrewR

    No, Lebanization means that what happened in Hamtramk, Michigan, the replacement of a Christian majority with a Muslim minority, is the same thing that happened to Lebanon.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  19. The headline on this piece “Obama’s Death Sentence” makes it impossible to take whatever follows seriously. It is so totally lacking in respect due the first African-American president and a man who I fervently believe will some day be on Mount Rushmore that whatever its content, no sympathy can be elicited. Is it because of Obama’s skin color that it’s so easy to accuse him of child murder, or is this a pro forma tactic of the loopy left. I wish Mr. Kristof a long and healthy life, but certainly one without me as a reader.

  20. “Why have the white British left London?”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

    “Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 – equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out.”

    • Replies: @anon
    @Anonymous Nephew

    It really saddens me that the capital city of my people has been lost to the third world. As an Australian, I can trace my lineage back to England and Scotland. Despite being in another hemisphere, Australia is very similar to Britain culturally.

    Today in the office I work at everyone was giving his/her opinion on Brexit except me. My office is completely cucked. If I were to say what i really thought they'd be like, 'wow just wow, it's the current year, I had no idea you were such a racist..' As an IT worker I get little respect as it is, I don't need any less.

    The only hope for millenials like me is that something like ww2 happens. I would be up for liberating Europe.

    Replies: @Erik Sieven

    , @carol
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Amazing! In London White Flight is a win! Why is it such an evil thing in the US?

    , @Wilkey
    @Anonymous Nephew

    So basically what happened to California over two decades: a net loss of millions of native born Americans while millions of foreigners moved in. To live in California you either have to be rich, corrupt, have a cushy government job (but I repeat myself), or be willing to live in the crappiest of neighborhoods where you'll feel like a foreigner in your own country.

    And people are shocked that Britons are growing tired of all that.

    Britain's "financial services" sector promises to be the hardest hit. Somehow I sense that the non-Londoners aren't all that bothered by the prospect. Financial services seems to be the bad money that drives out the good money, while corrupting so much around it.

    , @celt darnell
    @Anonymous Nephew

    If anyone wonders why London, virtually alone in England, voted overwhelmingly (60%) for "Remain" in the EU referendum, consider this statistic:

    of the population of London, only 45% are British-born whites (or what we would have simply called "the British" less than 30 years ago).

    Goodness, you'd almost think immigrants and ethnic minorities were less concerned about the question of national sovereignty, wouldn't you?

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew

    , @anon
    @Anonymous Nephew

    "Left"? They were ethnically cleansed.

  21. “How many displaced persons were there in America who get no sympathy in the history textbooks, or even are disparaged as racists engaged in the evils of White Flight?”

    I’ll guess 25 million on up. You’d have to fine-tune what you’re talking about for clarity, but I’d say over-estimates of Whites fleeing Black crime (retaliation?) get you closer to the true number than under-estimates. The idea that White Flight itself is some sort of evil is straight out of Orwell.

    Not enough time for a longer comment, but—Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell “legitimate, well-founded grievance”?

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    @JackOH

    Jack, not only should you include white flight, but you could also include the blacks who have been ethnically cleansed by Mexicans from places like Los Angeles.

    Replies: @JackOH, @EriK

    , @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @JackOH

    Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell “legitimate, well-founded grievance”?

    IRL I have been telling people for several years now that the Constitution is no longer the founding document that should motivate their politics, that the Declaration of Independence is far more pertinent.

    Or rather, I used to. These days I've given up any hope for the future of this country. The people running the show want more Dr. Frank-N-Furters in bathrooms with little girls, and more Muslim towel heads to come over here and diversify the place. And when those two things come to a head as in Orlando? Well, it is all turned into a big goddamned hate straight white men festival, and everyone ignores that the camel fuckers would rather shot the fags en masse than sing "Kumbaya" with ass fuckers. The AG is even running around saying we'll never know what the shooter's motivations were, so we'd better hammer the fuck out of those Christian bakers and the NRA before this happens again.

    Really, if you can, make escape plans for your children's sake, though God knows where you'd go now that even London is a Third World city.

    Replies: @27 year old, @Martine, @JackOH, @Charles Erwin Wilson

  22. The Atlantic had an article maybe 10 years ago by Hanna Rosin on how the decision to de-concentrate poverty by demolishing a lot of public housing and giving residents Section 8 vouchers didn’t actually reduce overall crime but just spread it around.

    Today HUD is pursuing enhanced vouchers so that holders aren’t hemmed in by the ‘fair market rents’ to which they are pegged and which are usually enough to pay for an apartment in lower middle class neighborhoods, but can instead afford to live in upper middle class neighborhood and suburbs. Coupled with the affirmatively furthering fair housing abomination, it seems that our betters are determined to ensure no one can get away from the least desirable elements of society.

    So what’s next for stable middle and upper middle class communities that can look forward to an injection of vibrant diversity courtesy of HUD?

    • Replies: @Henry Bowman
    @Arclight

    I hear Trump will do away with section 8 as we know it, maybe all together, another reason to vote for him.

    The rich will turn on the left and the Diversity as a whole the moment it cost them.

  23. Cristóbal should just pay the money he owes to the mafia in Guatemala.

  24. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The number of internal refugees must be huge but since it’s been spread out over a period of the last fifty or so years it hasn’t caught the eye of most people except in places where it was more abrupt. People leaving ‘bad’ neighborhoods or places that were getting ‘bad’ is a common theme but left unspoken is what makes some areas ‘bad’. Isn’t this a major reason for the growth of the suburbs, to get away from the ‘bad’ even though it entailed longer and dreary commutes? Over the years tens of millions have felt the need to move on and in many cases lost money on their homes just so they could feel safe.

  25. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "Why have the white British left London?"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

    "Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 - equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out."

    Replies: @anon, @carol, @Wilkey, @celt darnell, @anon

    It really saddens me that the capital city of my people has been lost to the third world. As an Australian, I can trace my lineage back to England and Scotland. Despite being in another hemisphere, Australia is very similar to Britain culturally.

    Today in the office I work at everyone was giving his/her opinion on Brexit except me. My office is completely cucked. If I were to say what i really thought they’d be like, ‘wow just wow, it’s the current year, I had no idea you were such a racist..’ As an IT worker I get little respect as it is, I don’t need any less.

    The only hope for millenials like me is that something like ww2 happens. I would be up for liberating Europe.

    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    @anon

    mass immigration is bad but wwII was worse

    Replies: @SFG, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad

  26. @Richard of Melbourne
    "...is a 16 year old youth who already has two years experience in cocaine smuggling the ideal New American?"

    Steve, what makes you think it is permissible to consider the interests of the United States in the setting of U.S. immigration policy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Big Bill

    The kid doesn’t have any problem with dope dealing, he has a problem with his current employers and fellow gang members.

    Fortunately, with the NYT help, he can come to America and find a better class of dope dealers to work for.

    The notion that he is going to get some job as a poor-but-honorable shoeshine making minimum wage is just silly.

    Would the NYT ever print a weepy immigration article in 1904 about a Sicilian mobster seeking refuge from the Mafia because he cheated them back in Sicily?

  27. When blacks get over a certain % things go downhill quickly. The same effect applies to Muslims. Below a certain % they are the best mannered. Then people think well of them. Then the % grows and jihad starts with the youth and the parents saying “we can’t control our children. They are doing these violent acts on their own.” Then the % grows and you have a Muslim country. This is a common thread of how they took over many countries.

    • Agree: BB753
  28. It just dawned on me. Of COURSE he will be invited to come to America.

    Once here, he will be automatically converted into a “justice-involved” “at-risk youth” and will be added to the case load of two or three Mexican social workers, “outreach coordinators”, ESL teachers, and “crisis intervention specialists”.

    And “America” (read: white folks) will be harangued for its lack of commitment to “assimilation” and “the poor” if we don’t cough up the cash to pay for his huge “support network”.

    The more dysfunction we import, the more job security for “the helping professions”.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  29. @Anonymous
    Yep.

    So now it's the highest mission of the USA to save Guatemalans from themselves.

    In other words a global lunatic asylum - with all the connotations that implies.

    Replies: @appalled, @Connecticut Famer

    Evil YT, save us! Evil YT, we hate you! Evil YT, can we come to your land? Evil YT, can we get into affirmative action programs with the Africans, even though we are not the descendants of slaves? Thanks, Evil YT! You are such a sucker, err, I mean generous fool, err I mean, a really nice evil YT. Where’s my welfare check?

  30. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    With Kristof’s employing the meme of the refugee child fleeing violence back in the 3rd world home country, he reenacts the scene from Wag The Dog where the scarf-wearing, Dorito-bag-blue-screened-baby-toting peasant woman is scurrying over the bridge in her desperate bid to escape the horrors of violence in her native land.

    Some themes never lose their power to evoke a compassionate response. If you don’t have reason on your side then lead people around by their emotions.

  31. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Why have the white British left London?"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

    "Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 - equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out."

    Replies: @anon, @carol, @Wilkey, @celt darnell, @anon

    Amazing! In London White Flight is a win! Why is it such an evil thing in the US?

  32. @Anonymous
    Yep.

    So now it's the highest mission of the USA to save Guatemalans from themselves.

    In other words a global lunatic asylum - with all the connotations that implies.

    Replies: @appalled, @Connecticut Famer

    “In other words a global lunatic asylum”—under the supervision of Nurse Ratched Clinton.

  33. Guatemalan and other Central American refugees are victims of an influence that the NYT doesn’t often discuss: the School of the Americas (see link below). They focus on the effects and not on causes, then look around for whom to blame.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation

    • Replies: @Ace
    @Ivy

    What influence is that? Point me to anything in the then curriculum of the SotA that lead to the results you imply.

  34. If this kid is granted asylum in the US, and commits a crime against an American, will Kristof take any responsibility for his advocacy?

  35. @wren
    Kristof has and embarrassing track record of retelling lies people tell him.

    Nine years on and I am still wondering if Obama speaks Indonesian. Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html

    Was Obama lying to him?

    Replies: @TheJester, @Bill

    If only the public had known the real Obama … “a street kid from Jakarta” with Muslim relatives and friends studying the Koran in an Indonesian elementary school, committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from “brown” and “black” countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    I unfortunately “drank the Kool-Aid” that he was a Black from Chicago working to reconcile the historic animosity between the American White and Black communities. Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM. The MSM seems to have intentionally misrepresented or otherwise camouflaged Obama’s background. We are now seeing the same sleight-of-hand with the Hildebeast.

    • Replies: @YT Wurlitzer
    @TheJester

    The "intentional misrepresentation" and "camouflage," the bamboozlement if you will is more relevant than ever. He has danced with those who brung him. And they seem to have an agenda that could politely be described as a betrayal of this nation's interest. Strap on your tinfoil and take a look inside at his importation of what appears to be various organized ethnic crime schemes (diversity mafias?) at this nation's expense and wonder why no one in the agencies run by similar has stopped it. It starts to look like intent, not accident.

    , @Old fogey
    @TheJester

    Unlike you, I did not vote for Obama and was one of those questioning his eligibility for the post of president since he was not a natural-born American (his father was not a citizen at any time). And I still blame the media for their utter failure of following up on the logical questions that were raised during his candidacy about his eligibility. McCain, you will recall, had to pass a review to examine whether his birth in the Panama Canal Zone while his father was serving there passed the "natural-born citizen" qualification noted in the Constitution.

    However, after Obama was elected and when the election results showed that a majority of whites had voted for him, I expected that the first thing he would do would be to announce that his election showed that it was no longer necessary or advisable for affirmative action policies of any kind. Unfortunately, he did not do this - on the contrary, he carefully played the race card at every opportunity, making the country far more racist now than it was at the time of his election. What a wasted opportunity.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @ChaseBizzy

    , @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @TheJester

    The real Obama...committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from “brown” and “black” countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    Other than the gay agenda, all that makes him no different than the standard Republican Presidential candidate.

    Replies: @Flip

    , @woodNfish
    @TheJester

    At least you are able to learn a lesson from your stupidity and willingness to let the LLSM lead you by the nose. Next time do your own research!

    , @Ace
    @TheJester

    I don't understand how you could have failed to be aware of Obama's subversive background. His association with Wright and Ayers was well known before his first run for the presidency. Kudos for acknowledging your error but I just don't understand how you could not have grasped the reality of our man. This article, just one that I pulled out of my files, was written six months before the 2008 election:

    "It's Barack, Like It or Not." By David Limbaugh, Townhall.com, 4/25/08.

    , @Jacques Sheete
    @TheJester


    Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM.
     
    Don't feel bad; I held my nose and voted for the Shrub because the thought of possibly 8 more years of Gore nauseated me. About 2 days after I dunnit, I wished I had voted for Satan instead.

    The Shrub cured me of ever casting a ballot for any national level degenerate again. Oh, and please don't call it the MSM. They want us to think it's mainstream, when it's mainly sewer stream. Please call it propaganda, corporate media or mass media; anything but mainstream.

    George Carlin said it well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeMGqTwWA6U
  36. @wren
    Kristof has and embarrassing track record of retelling lies people tell him.

    Nine years on and I am still wondering if Obama speaks Indonesian. Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html

    Was Obama lying to him?

    Replies: @TheJester, @Bill

    Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?

    I think that is one of the most humanizing Obama quotes. It is, indeed, a beautiful sound. And the facts that Obama has thought about a question like “what’s the most beautiful sound on Earth” and that he’s settled on a sung prayer as the answer almost make me doubt that he is a CIA android manufactured in Saruman’s works.

    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
    @Bill


    ...the fact that Obama has thought about a question like “what’s the most beautiful sound on Earth” and that he’s settled on [the Arabic call to prayer] as the answer almost make me doubt that he is a CIA android manufactured in Saruman’s works.
     
    The man's human, after all. I had a similar reaction when he told CNN's Anderson Cooper that his favorite food is "fried white babies."
    , @Olorin
    @Bill

    I fail to comprehend how a quiet-shattering demand ululated from tower-tops for the masses to grovel on the ground, ass in air, and give obeisance to a warmongering Dark Ages pedophile is "a beautiful sound." Strikes me more like aural rape on the quintuple-daily plan.

    I'm also not much on church bells or boom boxes. But if a mosque moved in next door to me, I'd have built in record time a carillon that clanged out sea chanteys, On Ilkley Moor Baht'at, and a rotating program of Sarcofagus, Amorphis, Sotajumala, and what the hell Deuteronomium. Would be fun transcribing "Holy War" or "Song of the Saved" into a carillon version.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

    , @Percy Gryce
    @Bill


    It is, indeed, a beautiful sound.
     
    Ah, yes, the soundtrack of dhimmitude.
  37. e says:

    Perhaps the Prime Minister of Scotland should write hand written notes to such trapped young men. She reminded all yesterday that Scotland, which overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU, is welcoming those who wish to come.

    Has Scotland been entirely depopulated of the brighter bulbs of their lot? Are they ALL stewing in alcohol?

  38. @wren
    Slightly OT, but the supreme court is catching up with the times.

    ...

    The question of when police may perform a search and if the resulting evidence can be used in court, can and does apply to anyone. Yet she actually entered the following into the nation’s body of Supreme Court decisions.(Emphasis added)

    “For generations,” she wrote, “black and brown parents have given their children ‘the talk’ — instructing them never to run down the street; always keep your hands where they can be seen; do not even think of talking back to a stranger — all out of fear of how an officer with a gun will react to them.”

    “We must not pretend that the countless people who are routinely targeted by police are ‘isolated,’” she wrote. “They are the canaries in the coal mine whose deaths, civil and literal, warn us that no one can breathe in this atmosphere. They are the ones who recognize that unlawful police stops corrode all our civil liberties and threaten all our lives. Until their voices matter, too, our justice system will continue to be anything but.”

    Did you catch the underlying message there?

    An officer with a gun. (Every lethal force encounter between police and minority suspects)

    No one can breathe. (“I can’t breathe” Eric Garner)

    Until their voices matter. (Black Lives Matter)

    This wasn’t a Supreme Court dissent. It was a series of excerpts from a Black Lives Matter diatribe in a case which wasn’t even addressing questions of profiling or any other related issue.
     
    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/26/the-fourth-amendment-wasnt-created-to-protect-the-guilty/

    Replies: @bomag, @AndrewR, @Dirk Dagger

    And let’s get a couple things straight, a little side note, the burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That is not our job, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest–if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, don’t make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

    We’ve been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we’re magic doesn’t mean were not real. Thank you. —2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)

    • Replies: @JsP
    @Dirk Dagger

    I was at a car shop this morning and was so forced to see some daytime television. They actually played that anti-white, anti-american hate speech on the today show with approving commentary about what an interesting, "engaged" person williams is and how we should all follow him on twitter or whatever.

    The Today Show which is, I assume, watched mostly by white american boomers.


    Unbelievable. I defy anyone to explain that while also arguing that "cuck"/"cuckservative" isnt not only acceptable language but important and damn near necessary descriptive language.

    , @Anonymous Nephew
    @Dirk Dagger


    "we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we’re magic doesn’t mean were not real. Thank you. –2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm)"
     
    https://www.statefarm.com/about-us/company-overview/company-profile/leadership-team/our-board-of-directors

    9 white males, 2 white females, one black male

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Dirk Dagger, @Buffalo Joe

    , @peterike
    @Dirk Dagger

    Lol! That BET award speech is one of the silliest things ever. Just nonsense, top to bottom. And it would take ten thousand words to untangle the knots of idiocy binding it all tightly together. Such is the power of mindless cant when backed up by the Narrative.

    Oh, and that Jesse Williams? Yeah, he's really black, gosh is he ever.

    http://blameebro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/o-JESSE-WILLIAMS-facebook.jpg

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Brutusale

    , @Hiram Abiff
    @Dirk Dagger


    We’ve been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit.
     
    This "plunder" concept, popularized by Teh Genius Coates, is so risible. Okay, white people will stop using what we've "appropriated" from blacks: the music, dance, speech patterns and fashion associated with hip-hop culture (or, "culture"). In return, blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc.

    I have no idea how America would retain a first world standard of living without its massive looting of the black bodies of criminals, welfare recipients and/or single mothers.

    (Incidentally that gives me the idea: has anyone thought to satirize TNC's concept of "plunder" after a Black Lives Matter riot?)

    Replies: @SFG, @Zach

    , @AnotherDad
    @Dirk Dagger

    Pure comedy gold.

    The reality that lottery winners--really *the* big winners, from trans-atlantic slavery--believe that they are "oppressed" ... amazing. But that's what 50 years of propaganda from the nation hating destroyers can do.

    Reality check: being a screwup, does not make you oppressed, it merely makes you ... a screwup!

  39. Many people effected personally by crime have more than a fleeting relationship with criminals. People forced into crime, more often than not, sought out the easy income of criminal behavior, and yes, that can be a street smart 14 year old. A recent study, posted here on an other subject, showed that most inner city shooting victims have a criminal past. I mourn only the innocent victims of drive by shootings, and these are often children. Slightly OT, but pertains to immigration, the African country of Angola is on the cusps of a Yellow Fever epidemic. The disease, preventable by vaccine, has effected 3000 Angolans since January. A photo, accompanying the article (Buffalo News/WPO) shows a street scene in the national capital of Luanda, with mounds of rotting garbage in the streets. We are always one diseased “visitor” away from diseases that we thought were history, Yellow Fever, TB, Ebola etc.

  40. JsP says:
    @Dirk Dagger
    @wren


    And let's get a couple things straight, a little side note, the burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That is not our job, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest--if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, don't make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

    We've been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we're done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we're magic doesn't mean were not real. Thank you. --2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)
     

    Replies: @JsP, @Anonymous Nephew, @peterike, @Hiram Abiff, @AnotherDad

    I was at a car shop this morning and was so forced to see some daytime television. They actually played that anti-white, anti-american hate speech on the today show with approving commentary about what an interesting, “engaged” person williams is and how we should all follow him on twitter or whatever.

    The Today Show which is, I assume, watched mostly by white american boomers.

    Unbelievable. I defy anyone to explain that while also arguing that “cuck”/”cuckservative” isnt not only acceptable language but important and damn near necessary descriptive language.

  41. @Bill
    @wren


    Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?
     
    I think that is one of the most humanizing Obama quotes. It is, indeed, a beautiful sound. And the facts that Obama has thought about a question like "what's the most beautiful sound on Earth" and that he's settled on a sung prayer as the answer almost make me doubt that he is a CIA android manufactured in Saruman's works.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Olorin, @Percy Gryce

    …the fact that Obama has thought about a question like “what’s the most beautiful sound on Earth” and that he’s settled on [the Arabic call to prayer] as the answer almost make me doubt that he is a CIA android manufactured in Saruman’s works.

    The man’s human, after all. I had a similar reaction when he told CNN’s Anderson Cooper that his favorite food is “fried white babies.”

  42. steve,

    100% off-topic but maybe the philippines’ new president is a reader. he’s urging filipinos to have fewer children: “three’s enough” http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/threes-enough-rodrigo-duterte-wants-hard-push-for-birth-control-even-if-it-means-clash-with-catholic-church

    he’s also described as trump-like for his hilarious statements.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @dsgntd_plyr

    The fertility rate in the Philippines is already 3.08.

  43. @JackOH
    "How many displaced persons were there in America who get no sympathy in the history textbooks, or even are disparaged as racists engaged in the evils of White Flight?"

    I'll guess 25 million on up. You'd have to fine-tune what you're talking about for clarity, but I'd say over-estimates of Whites fleeing Black crime (retaliation?) get you closer to the true number than under-estimates. The idea that White Flight itself is some sort of evil is straight out of Orwell.

    Not enough time for a longer comment, but---Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell "legitimate, well-founded grievance"?

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Jack, not only should you include white flight, but you could also include the blacks who have been ethnically cleansed by Mexicans from places like Los Angeles.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @iSteveFan

    I'm not sure the Black movement from, say, the South to the North in the early 20th c., has ever been demonized as White Flight has.

    , @EriK
    @iSteveFan

    And Compton!

  44. There were some demonstrators at the capital in Sacramento yesterday that may need to find refuge from political persecution and mob violence.

    A white nationalist group got a permit to hold a demonstration on the capitol grounds in Sacramento. A group of Hispanic activists organized through social media to “shut them down.” They showed up in great numbers, with sticks, rocks, and knives, and attacked the demonstrators. No fatalities, about ten people sent to the hospital

    This appears to be what politics is increasingly going to look like in America along racial fault lines. Our Mexicans are not going to tolerate American citizens peaceably assembling and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances. They are bringing south-of-the-border style political violence here. We saw the same at the Trump rally in San Jose.

    What we saw in both instances is that in California, with its large Mexican fifth column, the government is not going to order police to protect demonstrators or political rallies that the Mexicans don’t like. It doesn’t want to be put in the position of having to bust some Mexican heads. There should have been a massive police presence at the Sacramento event–it was obvious that violence might erupt. But with the ethnic divisions in America today, the government picks the side that is to its political advantage. The “Rule of law?” Forget about it.

    On Fox News there was a certain balance of blame accorded. No real alarm. Sure, violence is bad, but white nationalists are like Nazis, right? The SPLC says they’re a hate group, so isn’t it only right that they be assaulted? The mob that actually started the violence looks like the real hate group to me, but what do I know.

    On the left, the symbol of hateful political thuggery is Hitler’s Brownshirts (SA). What the left won’t acknowledge is that the SA were formed as a response to Communist thugs, the Red Front Fighters League, who attacked its political opponents. I’m not coming down on the side of the Brownshirts, just pointing out that once politics deteriorates to the point that one side is allowed to employ violence with impunity, you have a very dangerous situation.

    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” – John F. Kennedy

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    @Harry Baldwin


    What the left won’t acknowledge is that the SA were formed as a response to Communist thugs, the Red Front Fighters League,
     
    Read the lyrics sometime to the Horst Wessel Lied.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Harry Baldwin

    Harry, Your reasoned response is what is sadly lacking from American discourse. I mentioned before that I listened to an NPR station (out of Boston I think) while driving for three and a half hours to Cleveland. Best comment I heard was from a caller who said...." you know your program would be better if it didn't always include you (the host) and a panel of four liberals." No comments on the Sacramento story except to point out that they were white nationalist, but I believe they said Neo-Nazis or white supremacists. No mention that THEY were attacked by Mexicans, whether legal immigrants or not.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Harry Baldwin

  45. @Lot

    If there were 125,000 from Austin, how many displaced persons were there across America overall in this era? Five million? Ten million? Fifteen million?
     
    Probably more like 20 million. Perhaps 30 million if you include later white flight, which continues even now if places like Buffalo and Cleveland where the white minorities are still escaping to the suburbs as soon as they are able.

    Replies: @Oldeguy

    This is the great untold saga of post WW2 America- the expulsion of millions of Whites of every ethnic heritage from the great American Inner Cities.
    The consequences are enormous both at the personal and societal levels. It frequently entailed trauma from which the victims never fully recovered; the victimized in life can never recover that unconscious sense of safety the never victimized possess.
    On a societal level, it meant the death of the genuine “neighborhood”- “vibrant” once meant a warm, mutually supportive community where you knew and could rely on those around you.
    Its destruction on a massive scale led us into the “cocooning” so ably outlined in Robert Putnam’s Bowling Alone https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467042812&sr=1-1&keywords=bowling+alone
    It is the Great Unmentionable Fact of modern America.

    • Replies: @Johnny
    @Oldeguy

    You need to read The Slaughter of Cities by E. Michael Jones. An excellent book that explains exactly what happened to the ethnic neighborhoods in the inner city after WWII.

  46. @Dirk Dagger
    @wren


    And let's get a couple things straight, a little side note, the burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That is not our job, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest--if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, don't make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

    We've been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we're done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we're magic doesn't mean were not real. Thank you. --2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)
     

    Replies: @JsP, @Anonymous Nephew, @peterike, @Hiram Abiff, @AnotherDad

    “we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we’re magic doesn’t mean were not real. Thank you. –2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm)”

    https://www.statefarm.com/about-us/company-overview/company-profile/leadership-team/our-board-of-directors

    9 white males, 2 white females, one black male

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger
    @Anonymous Nephew


    … this invention called whiteness …
     
    This would make a good Unz.com handle.
    , @Dirk Dagger
    @Anonymous Nephew

    And now:


    Justin Timberlake Praises Black Actor, Says ‘We’re All the Same’ — He Somehow Ends Up Apologizing

    Singer and actor Justin Timberlake has apologized on Twitter for saying that “we’re all the same,” regardless of race.

    The apology came after Timberlake commented in a discussion about black actor Jesse Williams’ acceptance speech at the BET awards, in which Williams blasted how he says whites treat blacks.

     

    Replies: @Tom-in-VA, @Percy Gryce

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Anonymous Nephew

    A Nephew, but, but isn't BET a Black invention, for blacks?

  47. @TheJester
    @wren

    If only the public had known the real Obama ... "a street kid from Jakarta" with Muslim relatives and friends studying the Koran in an Indonesian elementary school, committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from "brown" and "black" countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    I unfortunately "drank the Kool-Aid" that he was a Black from Chicago working to reconcile the historic animosity between the American White and Black communities. Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM. The MSM seems to have intentionally misrepresented or otherwise camouflaged Obama's background. We are now seeing the same sleight-of-hand with the Hildebeast.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Old fogey, @Gato de la Biblioteca, @woodNfish, @Ace, @Jacques Sheete

    The “intentional misrepresentation” and “camouflage,” the bamboozlement if you will is more relevant than ever. He has danced with those who brung him. And they seem to have an agenda that could politely be described as a betrayal of this nation’s interest. Strap on your tinfoil and take a look inside at his importation of what appears to be various organized ethnic crime schemes (diversity mafias?) at this nation’s expense and wonder why no one in the agencies run by similar has stopped it. It starts to look like intent, not accident.

  48. Merkel, in the wake of the Brexit today:

    “The EU should instead act on popular concerns such as securing the bloc’s borders, creating jobs and improve internal security, she said.”

    Merkel’s refugee policy has to go down as one of the great blunders of the post-war era. It single-handedly wrecked the elite’s most cherished project at a stroke.

    • Replies: @Boomstick
    @Boomstick

    Looks like it was wrong. There's a leaked copy of the proposal from Germany and France floating around. It's a disaster. Integrated military, criminal law expanded. They make gestures towards securing the borders but it's all taken away in the text.

    "It is our common duty to protect those fleeing from war or political persecution....Asylum seekers reaching Europe have a right to be treated according to the Geneva Convention no matter where they reach our shores. To this end we must further harmonise and simplify our standards and procedures..."

    Essentially they want to make the German policy official and EU-wide, while removing the power of individual nations to resist.

    They've decided to double down on stupid. It's just gob-smacking. I wouldn't rule out a LePen win at this point.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Boomstick

    Boomstick, WAIT . Merkel said ..."securing the block's borders." From whom, the British? And I thought borders were verboten.

  49. Just as with the ‘refugees’ coming into Europe to ‘flee violence’ , these stories neglect to explain what measures are being used to sort the victims from the violent. Obviously we’re supposed to believe that Magic Dirt allows the saintly victims over the border but always repels their oppressors.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Henry Bowman
    @Lurker


    Obviously we’re supposed to believe that Magic Dirt allows the saintly victims over the border but always repels their oppressors.
     
    Of course ITS MAGIC DIRT!
  50. @Harry Baldwin
    There were some demonstrators at the capital in Sacramento yesterday that may need to find refuge from political persecution and mob violence.

    A white nationalist group got a permit to hold a demonstration on the capitol grounds in Sacramento. A group of Hispanic activists organized through social media to "shut them down." They showed up in great numbers, with sticks, rocks, and knives, and attacked the demonstrators. No fatalities, about ten people sent to the hospital

    This appears to be what politics is increasingly going to look like in America along racial fault lines. Our Mexicans are not going to tolerate American citizens peaceably assembling and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances. They are bringing south-of-the-border style political violence here. We saw the same at the Trump rally in San Jose.

    What we saw in both instances is that in California, with its large Mexican fifth column, the government is not going to order police to protect demonstrators or political rallies that the Mexicans don't like. It doesn't want to be put in the position of having to bust some Mexican heads. There should have been a massive police presence at the Sacramento event--it was obvious that violence might erupt. But with the ethnic divisions in America today, the government picks the side that is to its political advantage. The "Rule of law?" Forget about it.

    On Fox News there was a certain balance of blame accorded. No real alarm. Sure, violence is bad, but white nationalists are like Nazis, right? The SPLC says they're a hate group, so isn't it only right that they be assaulted? The mob that actually started the violence looks like the real hate group to me, but what do I know.

    On the left, the symbol of hateful political thuggery is Hitler's Brownshirts (SA). What the left won't acknowledge is that the SA were formed as a response to Communist thugs, the Red Front Fighters League, who attacked its political opponents. I'm not coming down on the side of the Brownshirts, just pointing out that once politics deteriorates to the point that one side is allowed to employ violence with impunity, you have a very dangerous situation.

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Buffalo Joe

    What the left won’t acknowledge is that the SA were formed as a response to Communist thugs, the Red Front Fighters League,

    Read the lyrics sometime to the Horst Wessel Lied.

  51. @JackOH
    "How many displaced persons were there in America who get no sympathy in the history textbooks, or even are disparaged as racists engaged in the evils of White Flight?"

    I'll guess 25 million on up. You'd have to fine-tune what you're talking about for clarity, but I'd say over-estimates of Whites fleeing Black crime (retaliation?) get you closer to the true number than under-estimates. The idea that White Flight itself is some sort of evil is straight out of Orwell.

    Not enough time for a longer comment, but---Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell "legitimate, well-founded grievance"?

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell “legitimate, well-founded grievance”?

    IRL I have been telling people for several years now that the Constitution is no longer the founding document that should motivate their politics, that the Declaration of Independence is far more pertinent.

    Or rather, I used to. These days I’ve given up any hope for the future of this country. The people running the show want more Dr. Frank-N-Furters in bathrooms with little girls, and more Muslim towel heads to come over here and diversify the place. And when those two things come to a head as in Orlando? Well, it is all turned into a big goddamned hate straight white men festival, and everyone ignores that the camel fuckers would rather shot the fags en masse than sing “Kumbaya” with ass fuckers. The AG is even running around saying we’ll never know what the shooter’s motivations were, so we’d better hammer the fuck out of those Christian bakers and the NRA before this happens again.

    Really, if you can, make escape plans for your children’s sake, though God knows where you’d go now that even London is a Third World city.

    • Replies: @27 year old
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    I've been trying to explain to people that we should no longer be basing our decision making on 200 year old documents at all, and adopt "is it good for us"

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    , @Martine
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Budapest. You could take your kids there. Orban actually cares about his country.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

    , @JackOH
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    "Radical and destructive." That's how I described my U. S. government about the time I thought about emigrating from the States. One thought experiment I used was something like: "How can you tell you're living in Nazi Germany or Bolshevik Russia?"--the caricatured societies we see on the Discovery channel? I concluded it's mostly very difficult, and you gotta make judgment calls about whether your government and your society have crossed some line in the sand.

    Our nearby state university's philosophy and English departments have been transformed into internal gay lobbies, and, in the process, academic laughingstocks. One traditionalist academic who attempted to publicly address how aberrant behavior was ruining collegiality and academic quality was mocked in the student newspaper, then ignored. So we've got drag queen shows, safe spaces, special pleading for the gays and lesbians, etc.

    " . . . [B]ig goddamned hate straight white men festival . . . ." You're not wrong, buddy, not wrong.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Anon

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Gato de la Biblioteca


    make escape plans for your children’s sake, though God knows where you’d go
     
    Exactly, go where? Or, instead of escape, how about we cowboy up and retake America? If the Brits can defy "the good and the great," why can't we?

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

  52. Look, before the Hart-Celler Act (1965), the US just did not have enough criminals, so it was resolved to import more of them to do the dirty work that the majority of Americans just did not seem to want to do. As long as there is one block in any neighborhood without a qualified criminal, we owe it to these poor folks to give them a leg up in the land of opprtunity.

    Oh yeah,

    /sarc>

  53. The memory of the ethnic cleansing of whites from inner-city America from the 1950’s -1970’s drives a lot of Trump’s support in the Northeast and industrial Midwest.

    The Cruzbot type republican from Kansas, Idaho, and Iowa knows nothing of having your daughter spit upon and son robbed of candy money during their walk home from school.

    I had one family member who refused to move out of North Philadelphia. He would call the cops on his neighbors for theft and vandalism. The cops got tired of his complaints and told him he should move out like the rest of the whites.

  54. @iSteveFan
    @JackOH

    Jack, not only should you include white flight, but you could also include the blacks who have been ethnically cleansed by Mexicans from places like Los Angeles.

    Replies: @JackOH, @EriK

    I’m not sure the Black movement from, say, the South to the North in the early 20th c., has ever been demonized as White Flight has.

  55. @TheJester
    @wren

    If only the public had known the real Obama ... "a street kid from Jakarta" with Muslim relatives and friends studying the Koran in an Indonesian elementary school, committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from "brown" and "black" countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    I unfortunately "drank the Kool-Aid" that he was a Black from Chicago working to reconcile the historic animosity between the American White and Black communities. Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM. The MSM seems to have intentionally misrepresented or otherwise camouflaged Obama's background. We are now seeing the same sleight-of-hand with the Hildebeast.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Old fogey, @Gato de la Biblioteca, @woodNfish, @Ace, @Jacques Sheete

    Unlike you, I did not vote for Obama and was one of those questioning his eligibility for the post of president since he was not a natural-born American (his father was not a citizen at any time). And I still blame the media for their utter failure of following up on the logical questions that were raised during his candidacy about his eligibility. McCain, you will recall, had to pass a review to examine whether his birth in the Panama Canal Zone while his father was serving there passed the “natural-born citizen” qualification noted in the Constitution.

    However, after Obama was elected and when the election results showed that a majority of whites had voted for him, I expected that the first thing he would do would be to announce that his election showed that it was no longer necessary or advisable for affirmative action policies of any kind. Unfortunately, he did not do this – on the contrary, he carefully played the race card at every opportunity, making the country far more racist now than it was at the time of his election. What a wasted opportunity.

    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Old fogey


    However, after Obama was elected and when the election results showed that a majority of whites had voted for him, I expected that the first thing he would do would be to announce that his election showed that it was no longer necessary or advisable for affirmative action policies of any kind.
     
    Really? I wouldn't have expected that in a million years.

    I didn't vote for Obama, either. I was not in the least surprised when he turned out to be the Chicago-style race-baiting politician that we now know him to be. The "Obama is a Lincoln-esque uniter and a postracial healer" bullshit stunk to high heaven even before the election.

    I realized a long time ago that the white-guilt BS is a religious phenomenon. Obama did not create it, but he sure as hell profited from it. (Obama, like Bush before him, is the symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.) For good-thinking whites, endless displays of masochistic self-abasement are the only way to prove their piety.

    I'm a cynical guy. I believe that no one, not even Donald Trump, seeks power for any other reason than to have power.

    But not everyone wants to have power for the same reason.

    As much as I like Trump - and, whatever happens, I will always admire him for singlehandedly taking on the liars in the rotten, corrupt political and media establishment - I believe that, ultimately, he is driven by his ego.

    All politicians are ego-driven, of course, but Trump's egotism is purer. Ironically, it's untainted by the simple greed that prompts so many of our so-called leaders to bend over for the rich and the powerful. Trump is many things, but he's not a whore.

    (The Clintons, on the other hand, have always been whores, and they always will be.)

    He wants the ego rush that comes with being the most powerful man in the world, yes, but he also wants to go down in history as the man who made America great again. He wants the name Trump, already plastered on so many of his buildings, to echo through the ages. He hopes that, 200 years from now, schoolchildren will learn about President Trump as they now learn about Presidents Washington and Lincoln.

    Seventeen years ago, when Trump first started talking seriously about running for president, he said nothing about immigration, but a lot about "spirit":

    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/10/08/trump.transcript/


    Plus, I think there's a great lack of spirit in this country. You know, what happened over the last four years is disgusting, and I just think there's a tremendous lack of spirit, and I think the spirit has to be brought back.

    [...]

    I mean, Ronald Reagan, to me, was a great president. And, whether you are liberal or you're conservative, people really view him as a great president. He'll go down as a great president and not so much for the things he did, it's just, there was a demeanor to him and a spirit that the country had under Ronald Reagan that was really phenomenal. And, you know, there was just a style and a class, and that a big part of the president, I mean, that's a really big part of being president. Ronald Reagan had it.

    Eisenhower, now Eisenhower -- I don't see him too much on lists of great, great presidents -- but there was a nice time in the country, the country had a prestige and he had a certain, you know, demeanor. He was a quality, class act. There are certain people that have that.
     

    He wants to make people feel good about America again, so they can feel good about the man who made them feel good. He wants to be the hero, the savior, the prophet leading us to the promised land. If he can do that, then he can legitimize his fame and make himself immortal, to boot.

    He understands that immivasion is the driving force behind this country's malaise, and that if something is not done soon, we will never again be able to recreate anything resembling the conditions that allowed the America of his youth to prosper.

    Eisenhower was president in Trump's childhood and early teenage years - he was six when Ike took office and fourteen when JFK took over. Reagan was president in Trump's youthful prime - the '80s were his glory years, when he was the biggest clown at the carnival. Ike and Ronnie both presided over epochs when America not only prospered but believed in itself. It's not surprising that he'd want to follow in their footsteps.

    (Reagan was something of a backstabber when it came to conservatives - he gave us amnesty, for one. But he bankrupted the Soviets, putting an end to the Cold War, and he made people believe that it was morning again in God's shining city on the hill.)

    Trump may or may not meet the traditional standards of "presidential material," but he pisses off a lot of people who I hate, people who are actively trying to destroy America, people who are working overtime to flush this country down the toilet. That, alone, is reason enough for me to vote for him. I feel a lot more enthusiastic voting for him than I ever would have felt about voting for, say, Jeb Bush.

    And if he stabs us in the back? Well ... that's what Republicans have been doing to their base for many years. At least he'll have given us a hell of a show.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    , @ChaseBizzy
    @Old fogey

    Boo-hoo-hoo, the burdens of McCain's review. You still probably voted for that traitorous lunatic instead of abstaining. I'm voting Trump and I don't care what capital letter has next to his name. Republicans like McCain created a viable Obama candidacy and I'm supposed to hate that closet case more the his cucked opponents?

  56. iSteve,

    Excellent observations … observing rather than just seeing.

    My current neighborhood in Northern Virginia is being “Hindified”. Not sure of the reasons; and not sure how bad it will have to get for us to leave.

    They used to live further east. Regardless, they bring their culture with them. The men dress Western; the women dress ethnic. I’ve been told that this is a way of keeping the women under control. They frequent the ever-present Hindi restaurants popping up around the shopping centers. (How did all of these people get visas? Are they all here on H-1s? How can this include the restaurant owners and staff?)

    A close friend of ours (a Cambodian woman) works in one of the more popular pizza parlors. She does not have nice things to say about the Hindis. We live in a multi-national community but she singles them out. She says the men constantly complain; they are abusive; nothing is ever right … wanting compensation with free drinks, etc.. They run up a $60 bill and leave a $1 tip if that. She loathes watching a Hindi walk through the door. Nothing but extra work and trouble for nothing. Is she racist or simply observant … from experience?

    I am in IT and I have my own stories. I would agree with our Cambodian friend. I would also single the Hindis out as having an alien culture and religion that will never successfully integrate into our common culture. (How could they integrate with their caste system?) To them, we are just a trading entrepôt for feeding IT revenue back to the home folks in Mumbai.

    How come I did not get to vote about open borders? And how come I did not get to vote about which cultures/backgrounds would get in and which would not? I have my preferences. Why didn’t any of them matter?

    • Replies: @biz
    @TheJester

    Hmm, Hindus leave small tips? It is hard for me to get worked up about that with what Islamists are up to these days.

  57. White flight is obviously racist because of evil YT self-segregating but it’s yet another backhanded compliment. Because it implies these areas are doomed without YT to uphold civilised standards – please come back!

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @Lurker

    But if they do come back it's "gentrification," which is the worst thing ever

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    , @International Jew
    @Lurker

    What's "YT"?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Dirk Dagger, @anonymous

    , @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Lurker

    Yep, they'll miss us when we're gone. Or they would, if they could read and write and cared about history in the slightest except for the victimization of their own black bodies.

  58. @anon
    @Anonymous Nephew

    It really saddens me that the capital city of my people has been lost to the third world. As an Australian, I can trace my lineage back to England and Scotland. Despite being in another hemisphere, Australia is very similar to Britain culturally.

    Today in the office I work at everyone was giving his/her opinion on Brexit except me. My office is completely cucked. If I were to say what i really thought they'd be like, 'wow just wow, it's the current year, I had no idea you were such a racist..' As an IT worker I get little respect as it is, I don't need any less.

    The only hope for millenials like me is that something like ww2 happens. I would be up for liberating Europe.

    Replies: @Erik Sieven

    mass immigration is bad but wwII was worse

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Erik Sieven

    What, 50 million dead (44 million for the hardcore alt-righters)? You must be new here.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Erik Sieven

    Arguably, the outcome of WWII--the victory of Communism over nationalism--led to mass immigration.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Erik Sieven


    mass immigration is bad but wwII was worse
     
    Nope. Exactly backwards. Mass immigration is much, much worse.

    WWII was very bad for *individuals* of a particular generation. As an individual suffering through WWII, my chance of dying, loss of family and friends, deprivation is definitely worse than what most people suffer from under mass immigration--hassle, loss of jobs, having to leave an old neighborhood, drunk drivers, higher crime, crappy schools, more disorder. Essentially the immediate death, destruction and suffering of the War is much worse.

    But the war *ended*. Millions lost their lives. Millions more lost family, friends. But in 1945, all European *nations* were still alive--even Russia, Poland, Germany. Even the Jews that Hitler had tried to exterminate were still a people and went on immediately to found their own nation pretty much as a result. All the *peoples*, all the *nations* of Europe survived and were living on. And in fact within a few years were living in unprecedented prosperity.

    In contrast the disaster of mass immigration does not end. Not in a few years. Not after a generation passes away. Never. Not even if the immigration stopped tomorrow. The damage will live on ... forever. Mass immigration is much more akin to what happens when you lose a war and lose your homeland. Mass immigration is not just killing off individuals but killing off the *nations* of the West which WWII did not.

  59. So, lemme get this straight: open-borders fanatics want to import millions of people from high-crime populations, under the aegis of saving them from…themselves?

    K, think I got it.

    Democrats: chasing the violent criminal vote since before you were born.

    Somebody should paint a picture of Emma Lazarus carving the Zeroth Amendment to the Bill of Rights onto the Statue of Liberty straight from the mouth of God.

    For a cartoon, putting the words on a burning bush might be best.

    the-fourth-amendment-wasnt-created-to-protect-the-guilty/

    Actually, it was, at least in this context. Otherwise it’s a dead letter; gov’t searches everyone, everywhere, all the time, and keeps only the guilty ones? No. The point is that there are rules and standards for gov’t and their enforcers, that they can’t just go searching everyone and keeping the guilty ones. The citizenry is not to be trawled like fish.

    “White Bread”, Walt Disney, The Boy Scouts of America, Country Music what else could be surer signs of the coming Holocaust???

    Disney probably offended because (inter alia) that level of schmaltz is only justified on behalf of the wretched refuse.

    The number of internal refugees must be huge but since it’s been spread out over a period of the last fifty or so years it hasn’t caught the eye of most people except in places where it was more abrupt.

    You know the old saying: “if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to see it except the media, and they don’t want anyone to know about it…did it make a sound?”

    The only hope for millenials like me is that something like ww2 happens. I would be up for liberating Europe.

    Your lips to God’s ears.

    2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)

    Reply: war it is then, Jesse. See you there.

    • Agree: BenKenobi
  60. “Refugee” seems too strong a word for people who change neighborhood to avoid crime. Is there a better term?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Peter Johnson

    "Displaced person?"

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Peter Johnson

    Peter, How about "Crime flighters ?"

    , @ben tillman
    @Peter Johnson


    “Refugee” seems too strong a word for people who change neighborhood to avoid crime. Is there a better term?
     
    In a word, no.

    Replies: @Ace

  61. Whups, meant “hear it” of course. 🙂

  62. Drudge Headline ATM:

    Family Furious After Video Of Woman Stabbed To Death On Chicago Subway Goes Viral…

    ‘Everybody Taking Pictures, Videos, Didn’t Try To Help Her’…

    What’d they expect? This is what people sign on to when they live in Illinois in general, and Chicago in particular; no right to self-defense. Why should slave-like residents in such a place stick their (disarmed) necks out for other slave-like residents?

    In America, it’s much likelier a Good Samaritan blows the violent criminal’s head off, because 1) he can carry a firearm and 2) he is reasonably assured he won’t be locked up by a slaveholder gov’t.

    • Replies: @Eric Novak
    @Svigor

    Illinois' concealed carry law went into effect in Feb. 2014. I should know since a concealed carry class I took in in Chicago and taught by a Chicago cop would be fairly good indicators that Illinois does in fact have a concealed carry law on the books. Those two facts all but rule out mushroom-induced hallucinations and advanced virtual reality technology put on me after a night of binge drinking with wacky friends.

  63. @bomag
    @wren

    Pretty revealing. From her perch at the pinnacle of the legal profession, the Wise Latina subscribes to the casual notion that law enforcement is corrupt and unfair; kind of like a CEO trashing his product and employees.

    I haven't noticed this SCOTUS member using her power and influence to suggest ways to improve the situation. Instead, she's happy to repeat her handler's snark.

    Replies: @Jasper Been

    On that note, I have been thinking, “wise latina” is not the biggest oxymoron I’ve ever heard, but it’s up there. Sounds as coherent as “cottony potato.”

  64. @Bill
    @wren


    Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?
     
    I think that is one of the most humanizing Obama quotes. It is, indeed, a beautiful sound. And the facts that Obama has thought about a question like "what's the most beautiful sound on Earth" and that he's settled on a sung prayer as the answer almost make me doubt that he is a CIA android manufactured in Saruman's works.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Olorin, @Percy Gryce

    I fail to comprehend how a quiet-shattering demand ululated from tower-tops for the masses to grovel on the ground, ass in air, and give obeisance to a warmongering Dark Ages pedophile is “a beautiful sound.” Strikes me more like aural rape on the quintuple-daily plan.

    I’m also not much on church bells or boom boxes. But if a mosque moved in next door to me, I’d have built in record time a carillon that clanged out sea chanteys, On Ilkley Moor Baht’at, and a rotating program of Sarcofagus, Amorphis, Sotajumala, and what the hell Deuteronomium. Would be fun transcribing “Holy War” or “Song of the Saved” into a carillon version.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Olorin

    This is the most awesome comment ever!

  65. Another Drudge headline:

    Rush on Channel tunnel as migrants fear ‘Berlin-style Wall’…

    Stupid migrants. The Berlin Wall was meant to keep dwellers from a mis-ruled shithole in, not out.

  66. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @JackOH

    Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell “legitimate, well-founded grievance”?

    IRL I have been telling people for several years now that the Constitution is no longer the founding document that should motivate their politics, that the Declaration of Independence is far more pertinent.

    Or rather, I used to. These days I've given up any hope for the future of this country. The people running the show want more Dr. Frank-N-Furters in bathrooms with little girls, and more Muslim towel heads to come over here and diversify the place. And when those two things come to a head as in Orlando? Well, it is all turned into a big goddamned hate straight white men festival, and everyone ignores that the camel fuckers would rather shot the fags en masse than sing "Kumbaya" with ass fuckers. The AG is even running around saying we'll never know what the shooter's motivations were, so we'd better hammer the fuck out of those Christian bakers and the NRA before this happens again.

    Really, if you can, make escape plans for your children's sake, though God knows where you'd go now that even London is a Third World city.

    Replies: @27 year old, @Martine, @JackOH, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    I’ve been trying to explain to people that we should no longer be basing our decision making on 200 year old documents at all, and adopt “is it good for us”

    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @27 year old

    Oh, there's good stuff in both the Declaration and in the Constitution. The problem is that the ideas really don't apply universally, and we should have kept tighter reins on who we let into the country. (I've got a lot of old stock in my background.)

    Really, there are two lessons to be gleaned from American history, over and over again.

    First, unfettered immigration is bad for the natives!

    Second, if you'll excuse the anachronism, PICK YOUR OWN GODDAMNED COTTON! Don't import people from elsewhere to be non-citizen cheap labor. You're just fucking up the country long term.

    Replies: @carol

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @27 year old

    More like: 2000 year old sermons. Like Gato said, the Declaration and Constitution are fine. Free people should always be willing to fight to defend them. (One change: Drop birthright citizenship.)

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Jack Hanson

  67. @Lurker
    White flight is obviously racist because of evil YT self-segregating but it's yet another backhanded compliment. Because it implies these areas are doomed without YT to uphold civilised standards - please come back!

    Replies: @Marcus, @International Jew, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    But if they do come back it’s “gentrification,” which is the worst thing ever

    • Replies: @YT Wurlitzer
    @Marcus

    Good point. Get you coming and going. The only reason I'd like to live another 50 years is to see young whites who didn't think they were YT in their borderless paradise when we're gone.

    , @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Marcus

    Would you want to live next to the douchebags who flock to most gentrification projects?

    Replies: @Marcus

  68. “If there were 125,000 from Austin, how many displaced persons were there across America overall in this era? Five million? Ten million? Fifteen million?”

    Pretty much every city in the South saw a mass exodus of whites. Ethnic cleansing in one city after another. Thousands of communities that evaporated. The impact on the Southern economy was bad enough. Just as the Southern economy was modernizing and coming into its own the cities were all but destroyed, leaving whites little incentive to remain.

  69. @iSteveFan
    @JackOH

    Jack, not only should you include white flight, but you could also include the blacks who have been ethnically cleansed by Mexicans from places like Los Angeles.

    Replies: @JackOH, @EriK

    And Compton!

  70. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Why have the white British left London?"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

    "Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 - equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out."

    Replies: @anon, @carol, @Wilkey, @celt darnell, @anon

    So basically what happened to California over two decades: a net loss of millions of native born Americans while millions of foreigners moved in. To live in California you either have to be rich, corrupt, have a cushy government job (but I repeat myself), or be willing to live in the crappiest of neighborhoods where you’ll feel like a foreigner in your own country.

    And people are shocked that Britons are growing tired of all that.

    Britain’s “financial services” sector promises to be the hardest hit. Somehow I sense that the non-Londoners aren’t all that bothered by the prospect. Financial services seems to be the bad money that drives out the good money, while corrupting so much around it.

  71. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @JackOH

    Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell “legitimate, well-founded grievance”?

    IRL I have been telling people for several years now that the Constitution is no longer the founding document that should motivate their politics, that the Declaration of Independence is far more pertinent.

    Or rather, I used to. These days I've given up any hope for the future of this country. The people running the show want more Dr. Frank-N-Furters in bathrooms with little girls, and more Muslim towel heads to come over here and diversify the place. And when those two things come to a head as in Orlando? Well, it is all turned into a big goddamned hate straight white men festival, and everyone ignores that the camel fuckers would rather shot the fags en masse than sing "Kumbaya" with ass fuckers. The AG is even running around saying we'll never know what the shooter's motivations were, so we'd better hammer the fuck out of those Christian bakers and the NRA before this happens again.

    Really, if you can, make escape plans for your children's sake, though God knows where you'd go now that even London is a Third World city.

    Replies: @27 year old, @Martine, @JackOH, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Budapest. You could take your kids there. Orban actually cares about his country.

    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Martine

    I like the Magyars, and would hate to do to them what's being done to my country. At least I would make an attempt to learn the language, though.

    Replies: @415 reasons

  72. @Lurker
    White flight is obviously racist because of evil YT self-segregating but it's yet another backhanded compliment. Because it implies these areas are doomed without YT to uphold civilised standards - please come back!

    Replies: @Marcus, @International Jew, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    What’s “YT”?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @International Jew

    YT = Whitey.

    , @Dirk Dagger
    @International Jew

    How could you ever find that out on the internets? I'm stumped.

    , @anonymous
    @International Jew

    Whitey, as in white person. I didn't know at first either.

  73. If there were 125,000 from Austin, how many displaced persons were there across America overall in this era?

    A related question is, what was the economic price (starting with destruction of urban property values, and going on to the accelerated degradation of urban infrastructure, cost of building new suburbs, cost of longer commutes, etc)?

    I were redoing my PhD in Economics today, and I didn’t care about my career prospects, I’d propose that as my thesis topic!

  74. @International Jew
    @Lurker

    What's "YT"?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Dirk Dagger, @anonymous

    YT = Whitey.

  75. @International Jew
    @Lurker

    What's "YT"?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Dirk Dagger, @anonymous

    How could you ever find that out on the internets? I’m stumped.

  76. @Anonymous Nephew
    @Dirk Dagger


    "we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we’re magic doesn’t mean were not real. Thank you. –2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm)"
     
    https://www.statefarm.com/about-us/company-overview/company-profile/leadership-team/our-board-of-directors

    9 white males, 2 white females, one black male

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Dirk Dagger, @Buffalo Joe

    … this invention called whiteness …

    This would make a good Unz.com handle.

  77. @International Jew
    @Lurker

    What's "YT"?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Dirk Dagger, @anonymous

    Whitey, as in white person. I didn’t know at first either.

  78. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Why have the white British left London?"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

    "Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 - equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out."

    Replies: @anon, @carol, @Wilkey, @celt darnell, @anon

    If anyone wonders why London, virtually alone in England, voted overwhelmingly (60%) for “Remain” in the EU referendum, consider this statistic:

    of the population of London, only 45% are British-born whites (or what we would have simply called “the British” less than 30 years ago).

    Goodness, you’d almost think immigrants and ethnic minorities were less concerned about the question of national sovereignty, wouldn’t you?

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    @celt darnell

    I think few iSteve readers would be surprised by the news that (a/c/t Lord Ashcroft's private polling org) minorities voted heavily in favour of Remain. Black people were most likely to vote remain, ironic when (as in the US with Latino immigration) it's their employment prospects that are worst hit by Eastern Europe immigration.

    But they might be surprised to learn that the only minorities to vote majority Leave were Sikhs and Jews (admittedly on a small sample size). Most UK Jews aren't oligarchs or Guardian op-ed writers.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

    Replies: @SFG, @celt darnell

  79. OT: Climate Change is real, says Michael Mann, you don’t need data anymore, just look out the window.

    I guess he must be right; when I went to bed last night it was dark and 60 degrees, when I got up this morning, the sun as out, and it was 70 degrees. I mean, WTF.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @SPMoore8


    OT: Climate Change is real, says Michael Mann
     
    Well, he is the director of the movie Heat. Robert De Niro:

    As Jimmy McElroy used to say in the yard: “Have nothing in your life that you will not walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the Climate Change coming around the corner.”
     

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  80. Over the weekend in Chicago 51 people were shot and seven killed.

    That is real violence.

    If I were there, I most definitely would consider becoming an internal refugee, and fleeing.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/27/gun-controlled-chicago-45-shot-7-killed-weekend/

  81. @Anonymous Nephew
    @Dirk Dagger


    "we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we’re magic doesn’t mean were not real. Thank you. –2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm)"
     
    https://www.statefarm.com/about-us/company-overview/company-profile/leadership-team/our-board-of-directors

    9 white males, 2 white females, one black male

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Dirk Dagger, @Buffalo Joe

    And now:

    Justin Timberlake Praises Black Actor, Says ‘We’re All the Same’ — He Somehow Ends Up Apologizing

    Singer and actor Justin Timberlake has apologized on Twitter for saying that “we’re all the same,” regardless of race.

    The apology came after Timberlake commented in a discussion about black actor Jesse Williams’ acceptance speech at the BET awards, in which Williams blasted how he says whites treat blacks.

    • Replies: @Tom-in-VA
    @Dirk Dagger

    Next thing you know, Justin will commit some heinous faux pas like saying all lives matter.

    , @Percy Gryce
    @Dirk Dagger

    Anyone who apologizes in any Twitter war automatically loses my sympathy.

  82. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The obvious parallel is what’s happening in South Africa and Zimbabwe, where whites have been forced out of many places where they used to live. Most people would never make the comparison because of fear of crimethink. This would not be happening if whites weren’t a people divided against themselves by political philosophy. Nowadays, anyone who goes to school needs to be deprogrammed, so we have to take back the schools and get rid of this present generation of liberalism-addled teachers.

    • Replies: @Yak-15
    @Anon

    This is a fact.

  83. @Dirk Dagger
    @wren


    And let's get a couple things straight, a little side note, the burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That is not our job, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest--if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, don't make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

    We've been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we're done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we're magic doesn't mean were not real. Thank you. --2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)
     

    Replies: @JsP, @Anonymous Nephew, @peterike, @Hiram Abiff, @AnotherDad

    Lol! That BET award speech is one of the silliest things ever. Just nonsense, top to bottom. And it would take ten thousand words to untangle the knots of idiocy binding it all tightly together. Such is the power of mindless cant when backed up by the Narrative.

    Oh, and that Jesse Williams? Yeah, he’s really black, gosh is he ever.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @peterike


    Lol! That BET award speech is one of the silliest things ever. Just nonsense, top to bottom. And it would take ten thousand words to untangle the knots of idiocy binding it all tightly together. Such is the power of mindless cant when backed up by the Narrative.
     
    And amplified by the Megaphone.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    , @Brutusale
    @peterike

    Guys just of the plane from Nairobi don't have to defend their blackness. The highest of yellas, on the other hand, have to prove it to their brutharen.

  84. I can say with authority that Hondurans lie with an ease beyond the wasp imagination. Never believe a Honduran.

    Also, this kid’s story is pretty much the plot of “Sin Nombre,” the movie, but without the hottie love-interest.

    I think Obama should announce a special refugee status for Martian abductees of Honduran origin to liberate the many thousands of these now living fearfully in the shadows.

  85. @Boomstick
    Merkel, in the wake of the Brexit today:

    "The EU should instead act on popular concerns such as securing the bloc's borders, creating jobs and improve internal security, she said."

    Merkel's refugee policy has to go down as one of the great blunders of the post-war era. It single-handedly wrecked the elite's most cherished project at a stroke.

    Replies: @Boomstick, @Buffalo Joe

    Looks like it was wrong. There’s a leaked copy of the proposal from Germany and France floating around. It’s a disaster. Integrated military, criminal law expanded. They make gestures towards securing the borders but it’s all taken away in the text.

    “It is our common duty to protect those fleeing from war or political persecution….Asylum seekers reaching Europe have a right to be treated according to the Geneva Convention no matter where they reach our shores. To this end we must further harmonise and simplify our standards and procedures…”

    Essentially they want to make the German policy official and EU-wide, while removing the power of individual nations to resist.

    They’ve decided to double down on stupid. It’s just gob-smacking. I wouldn’t rule out a LePen win at this point.

  86. @TheJester
    @wren

    If only the public had known the real Obama ... "a street kid from Jakarta" with Muslim relatives and friends studying the Koran in an Indonesian elementary school, committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from "brown" and "black" countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    I unfortunately "drank the Kool-Aid" that he was a Black from Chicago working to reconcile the historic animosity between the American White and Black communities. Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM. The MSM seems to have intentionally misrepresented or otherwise camouflaged Obama's background. We are now seeing the same sleight-of-hand with the Hildebeast.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Old fogey, @Gato de la Biblioteca, @woodNfish, @Ace, @Jacques Sheete

    The real Obama…committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from “brown” and “black” countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    Other than the gay agenda, all that makes him no different than the standard Republican Presidential candidate.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    It does sound like Ryan and Boehner. Why do the Republicans even exist?

  87. @Lurker
    White flight is obviously racist because of evil YT self-segregating but it's yet another backhanded compliment. Because it implies these areas are doomed without YT to uphold civilised standards - please come back!

    Replies: @Marcus, @International Jew, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Yep, they’ll miss us when we’re gone. Or they would, if they could read and write and cared about history in the slightest except for the victimization of their own black bodies.

  88. The internal refugee number is likely north of 60 million. At least. But over around 60 years or so.

    The point is that this internal refugee flood is a result of the Civil War Among Whites. On one side are the Charles Murrays, who would rather live in and around (but not REALLY) Little Vietnams than “Whitebread America.” This is a CLASS struggle. Upper Class Whites really hate hate hate lower class Whites. They fear competition and have themselves uncertain status and situations. It is not as if they have aristocratic titles that are unquestioned, one social slip and they can be sliding in class and status.

    On the other side are the ordinary people who for a very long time trusted and accepted elite leadership in the new media, infotainment, government, law, the military, and political party leadership. That trust is now gone, with Trump and Brexit alike playing a part in blowing apart the old ties.

    The problem is the Charles Murrays. Upper class Jews like say Matty Yglesias flow with whatever the current the Murrays create. If the Ivy League Leadership was all nationalism, borders, citizens first and that gave or cemented higher social status, you better believe Matty Yglesias would be one hundred percent in favor of it; as it would feed his Maslow Hierarchy of needs — social standing and status.

    And the question is why do the Upper Classes hate the lower ones so much? Answer, Marie Antoinette syndrome. Nice White Ladies influencing and moving the culture. This is particularly magnified by the status aspirations of young women and young women’s influence on the wider culture given the delayed marriage rate and corresponding magnification of the sex and mate market to astronomical levels.

    The ethnic cleansing of middle and working class Whites from major urban areas and close in suburbs is a feature, not a bug, of the Civil War Among Whites driven mostly by Nice White Lady hatred of the lower classes which has been a feature of Nice White Ladies since the dawning days of feminism as empowerment for Upper Class White ladies in the late 1700s.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Whiskey


    The internal refugee number is likely north of 60 million. At least. But over around 60 years or so.
     
    It's probably one of the largest transfers of population in all history yet goes under the radar because it's been a slow moving train crash.
  89. @Peter Johnson
    "Refugee" seems too strong a word for people who change neighborhood to avoid crime. Is there a better term?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Buffalo Joe, @ben tillman

    “Displaced person?”

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Steve Sailer


    “Displaced person?”

     

    'Displaced person' is highly evocative term.
  90. @Harry Baldwin
    There were some demonstrators at the capital in Sacramento yesterday that may need to find refuge from political persecution and mob violence.

    A white nationalist group got a permit to hold a demonstration on the capitol grounds in Sacramento. A group of Hispanic activists organized through social media to "shut them down." They showed up in great numbers, with sticks, rocks, and knives, and attacked the demonstrators. No fatalities, about ten people sent to the hospital

    This appears to be what politics is increasingly going to look like in America along racial fault lines. Our Mexicans are not going to tolerate American citizens peaceably assembling and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances. They are bringing south-of-the-border style political violence here. We saw the same at the Trump rally in San Jose.

    What we saw in both instances is that in California, with its large Mexican fifth column, the government is not going to order police to protect demonstrators or political rallies that the Mexicans don't like. It doesn't want to be put in the position of having to bust some Mexican heads. There should have been a massive police presence at the Sacramento event--it was obvious that violence might erupt. But with the ethnic divisions in America today, the government picks the side that is to its political advantage. The "Rule of law?" Forget about it.

    On Fox News there was a certain balance of blame accorded. No real alarm. Sure, violence is bad, but white nationalists are like Nazis, right? The SPLC says they're a hate group, so isn't it only right that they be assaulted? The mob that actually started the violence looks like the real hate group to me, but what do I know.

    On the left, the symbol of hateful political thuggery is Hitler's Brownshirts (SA). What the left won't acknowledge is that the SA were formed as a response to Communist thugs, the Red Front Fighters League, who attacked its political opponents. I'm not coming down on the side of the Brownshirts, just pointing out that once politics deteriorates to the point that one side is allowed to employ violence with impunity, you have a very dangerous situation.

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy

    Replies: @iSteveFan, @Buffalo Joe

    Harry, Your reasoned response is what is sadly lacking from American discourse. I mentioned before that I listened to an NPR station (out of Boston I think) while driving for three and a half hours to Cleveland. Best comment I heard was from a caller who said….” you know your program would be better if it didn’t always include you (the host) and a panel of four liberals.” No comments on the Sacramento story except to point out that they were white nationalist, but I believe they said Neo-Nazis or white supremacists. No mention that THEY were attacked by Mexicans, whether legal immigrants or not.

    • Replies: @YT Wurlitzer
    @Buffalo Joe

    LA Times changed their story. On Sunday they quoted someone from the SPLC saying the group was nativist but NOT white supremacist. I couldn't look at pictures or film, but in any case it is inexcusable for the police to not protect the right to protest and advocate your position. Yes, the imports certainly are enriching our culture. /s

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Buffalo Joe

    "you know your program would be better if it didn’t always include you (the host) and a panel of four liberals.”

    Sounds like my local public radio station. A weekly political discussion panel features a range of opinion from conventional leftist to wacko leftist. They really have no interest in hearing from anyone else. I understand, though. There is no longer any grounds for reasoned debate. They just want to destroy people like us.

  91. @Martine
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Budapest. You could take your kids there. Orban actually cares about his country.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

    I like the Magyars, and would hate to do to them what’s being done to my country. At least I would make an attempt to learn the language, though.

    • Replies: @415 reasons
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Visited Budapest in April. The most noteworthy thing (other than how ethnically homogenous it was other than American tourists) was how inscrutable the language was. Good luck.

    Beautiful city though. Wish we could have spent more time there.

    Replies: @Olorin

  92. @Anonymous Nephew
    @Dirk Dagger


    "we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we’re magic doesn’t mean were not real. Thank you. –2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm)"
     
    https://www.statefarm.com/about-us/company-overview/company-profile/leadership-team/our-board-of-directors

    9 white males, 2 white females, one black male

    Replies: @Dirk Dagger, @Dirk Dagger, @Buffalo Joe

    A Nephew, but, but isn’t BET a Black invention, for blacks?

  93. @Olorin
    @Bill

    I fail to comprehend how a quiet-shattering demand ululated from tower-tops for the masses to grovel on the ground, ass in air, and give obeisance to a warmongering Dark Ages pedophile is "a beautiful sound." Strikes me more like aural rape on the quintuple-daily plan.

    I'm also not much on church bells or boom boxes. But if a mosque moved in next door to me, I'd have built in record time a carillon that clanged out sea chanteys, On Ilkley Moor Baht'at, and a rotating program of Sarcofagus, Amorphis, Sotajumala, and what the hell Deuteronomium. Would be fun transcribing "Holy War" or "Song of the Saved" into a carillon version.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

    This is the most awesome comment ever!

  94. @27 year old
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    I've been trying to explain to people that we should no longer be basing our decision making on 200 year old documents at all, and adopt "is it good for us"

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Oh, there’s good stuff in both the Declaration and in the Constitution. The problem is that the ideas really don’t apply universally, and we should have kept tighter reins on who we let into the country. (I’ve got a lot of old stock in my background.)

    Really, there are two lessons to be gleaned from American history, over and over again.

    First, unfettered immigration is bad for the natives!

    Second, if you’ll excuse the anachronism, PICK YOUR OWN GODDAMNED COTTON! Don’t import people from elsewhere to be non-citizen cheap labor. You’re just fucking up the country long term.

    • Replies: @carol
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Agreed, but whites couldn't handle working in the South.

    DuBois's dissertation (in Souls of Black Folks) shows how some of the northernmost southern states actually considered getting rid of slavery...which debate made the slavers double down and bring in as many black bodies as they possibly could carry in the ensuing years.

    And so here we are.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

  95. @Boomstick
    Merkel, in the wake of the Brexit today:

    "The EU should instead act on popular concerns such as securing the bloc's borders, creating jobs and improve internal security, she said."

    Merkel's refugee policy has to go down as one of the great blunders of the post-war era. It single-handedly wrecked the elite's most cherished project at a stroke.

    Replies: @Boomstick, @Buffalo Joe

    Boomstick, WAIT . Merkel said …”securing the block’s borders.” From whom, the British? And I thought borders were verboten.

  96. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Martine

    I like the Magyars, and would hate to do to them what's being done to my country. At least I would make an attempt to learn the language, though.

    Replies: @415 reasons

    Visited Budapest in April. The most noteworthy thing (other than how ethnically homogenous it was other than American tourists) was how inscrutable the language was. Good luck.

    Beautiful city though. Wish we could have spent more time there.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    @415 reasons

    Hey, guys. Hungarian is easy.

    Just learn Suomi first.

    http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/full/finnish-language-click-to-zoom-1432470.jpeg

    Kuusi palaa!

  97. @Dirk Dagger
    @Anonymous Nephew

    And now:


    Justin Timberlake Praises Black Actor, Says ‘We’re All the Same’ — He Somehow Ends Up Apologizing

    Singer and actor Justin Timberlake has apologized on Twitter for saying that “we’re all the same,” regardless of race.

    The apology came after Timberlake commented in a discussion about black actor Jesse Williams’ acceptance speech at the BET awards, in which Williams blasted how he says whites treat blacks.

     

    Replies: @Tom-in-VA, @Percy Gryce

    Next thing you know, Justin will commit some heinous faux pas like saying all lives matter.

  98. @27 year old
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    I've been trying to explain to people that we should no longer be basing our decision making on 200 year old documents at all, and adopt "is it good for us"

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Jenner Ickham Errican

    More like: 2000 year old sermons. Like Gato said, the Declaration and Constitution are fine. Free people should always be willing to fight to defend them. (One change: Drop birthright citizenship.)

    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Like Gato said, the Declaration and Constitution are fine. Free people should always be willing to fight to defend them.

    But who are you going to fight, and who will fight with you? It's been a drip-drip-drip change, and suddenly one day people realize it looks like a deluge. But people just accept this new reality as both immutable and unstoppable.

    Yes, looking at it written down it probably means we're not a free people anymore. But I am defeated on this issue, as I've acknowledged from time to time. I just don't see any hope.

    (One change: Drop birthright citizenship.)

    Fuckin' goddamned A.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    , @Jack Hanson
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Re: your second point

    Birthright citizenship was fine until a SCOTUS judge foot noted it in.

    Do something about unelected mandarins.

  99. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Nicholas Kristof could not possibly give a rat's ass about America's internal white refugees from non-white crime.

    Want to know why???

    Because these internal refugees were now forced to eat supermarket "white bread" in order to escape the degeneracy that took over their old neighborhoods.

    Mr Kristof knows full well from working at the NYT that "White Bread" eaters are not worth caring about.

    These white folks for a time had such bad taste and manners that they accepted "White Bread" as the price for escaping rapidly rising urban degeneracy.

    My own 2nd generation Sicilian dad would complain that moving to the suburbs in order to provide a safe home for his kids meant having to accept eating "white bread".

    It took a generation for suburban supermarket chains to begin carrying a decent selection of breads and for the emergence of suburban bakeries.

    Heaven forbid that the goyim cared enough about their children that they were willing to accept for a time inferior bread.

    But now that the non-whites who took over the old urban neighborhoods now have nothing to spend their food stamps on but sh*tty mass produced white bread are they to be looked down upon???

    "White Bread" is simply the contemptuous kosher euphemism for the goyim's preference for "Low Degeneracy" and criminality.

    It is the same neurotic sneer that TWMNBN who grew up on "The Authoritarian Personality" used when complaining about the "Disneyfication" of white suburbia.

    "White Bread", Walt Disney, The Boy Scouts of America, Country Music what else could be surer signs of the coming Holocaust???

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Nicholas Kristof isn’t Jewish. That subject has been discussed exhaustively in this website’s comment section in the not so distant past. I, on the other hand, am Jewish and would never criticize your father or any other non-Jew who moved out to suburbia to avoid degeneracy and criminality.

  100. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @JackOH

    Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell “legitimate, well-founded grievance”?

    IRL I have been telling people for several years now that the Constitution is no longer the founding document that should motivate their politics, that the Declaration of Independence is far more pertinent.

    Or rather, I used to. These days I've given up any hope for the future of this country. The people running the show want more Dr. Frank-N-Furters in bathrooms with little girls, and more Muslim towel heads to come over here and diversify the place. And when those two things come to a head as in Orlando? Well, it is all turned into a big goddamned hate straight white men festival, and everyone ignores that the camel fuckers would rather shot the fags en masse than sing "Kumbaya" with ass fuckers. The AG is even running around saying we'll never know what the shooter's motivations were, so we'd better hammer the fuck out of those Christian bakers and the NRA before this happens again.

    Really, if you can, make escape plans for your children's sake, though God knows where you'd go now that even London is a Third World city.

    Replies: @27 year old, @Martine, @JackOH, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    “Radical and destructive.” That’s how I described my U. S. government about the time I thought about emigrating from the States. One thought experiment I used was something like: “How can you tell you’re living in Nazi Germany or Bolshevik Russia?”–the caricatured societies we see on the Discovery channel? I concluded it’s mostly very difficult, and you gotta make judgment calls about whether your government and your society have crossed some line in the sand.

    Our nearby state university’s philosophy and English departments have been transformed into internal gay lobbies, and, in the process, academic laughingstocks. One traditionalist academic who attempted to publicly address how aberrant behavior was ruining collegiality and academic quality was mocked in the student newspaper, then ignored. So we’ve got drag queen shows, safe spaces, special pleading for the gays and lesbians, etc.

    ” . . . [B]ig goddamned hate straight white men festival . . . .” You’re not wrong, buddy, not wrong.

    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @JackOH

    Our nearby state university’s philosophy and English departments have been transformed into internal gay lobbies, and, in the process, academic laughingstocks. One traditionalist academic who attempted to publicly address how aberrant behavior was ruining collegiality and academic quality was mocked in the student newspaper, then ignored. So we’ve got drag queen shows, safe spaces, special pleading for the gays and lesbians, etc.

    I've been amused lately thinking about the current crop of college students. With their anti-CrimeThink attitudes and the vapors they have whenever someone violates a 'safe space' they have managed something of a hermaphroditic ideal by being both dicks and pussies at the same time.

    , @Anon
    @JackOH

    This can be changed in one year by giving interviews to prospective students, asking them questions about social justice, and then not letting in the hardcore SJW types. Colleges don't have to suffer this idiocy. Then can also refuse to renew tenure for their SJW profs.

  101. Interesting post. This would also challenges the dominant view of postwar history, that white American eagerly deserted the cities to live in new, spacious suburbs to fulfill the American dream.

    Perhaps white Americans were pushed out of the cities and now with low crime levels, are going back to the cities they love. The 1960s-1990s were just a pause in the longterm urbanization of America.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jimi

    I suspect there was a vague Anglo / Protestant versus non-Anglo / Catholic divide: British-descended people tended to take off for the crabgrass frontier at the first sign of trouble -- settling new land is what they do -- while Catholics tended to hunker down more in their neighborhoods and try to hold on. WASPs tended to own most of the suburban and exurban land that could be developed, but needed to sell it to the Catholic urban masses. So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.

    Replies: @WowJustWow, @SFG, @Lot, @Dave Pinsen

    , @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Jimi

    The carrot of cheap, subsidized mortgages and the stick of importing sharecroppers in order to break up the ethnic Catholic urban neighborhoods of Northern cities was well explored in "The Slaughter of Cities: Uban Renewal as Ethnic Cleansing"

  102. @AndrewR
    @Lot

    Slavs are full fledged whites but Lebanese are plain old non-white?

    K.

    Replies: @Lot

    No, Lebanization means that what happened in Hamtramk, Michigan, the replacement of a Christian majority with a Muslim minority, is the same thing that happened to Lebanon.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Lot

    Ah true.

    But the Poles would have left anyway. Why would a fourth or greater generation "Pole", with no real connection to Poland or Polish culture, want to live in a tiny enclave of Detroit?

    Replies: @Lot

  103. @SPMoore8
    OT: Climate Change is real, says Michael Mann, you don't need data anymore, just look out the window.

    I guess he must be right; when I went to bed last night it was dark and 60 degrees, when I got up this morning, the sun as out, and it was 70 degrees. I mean, WTF.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    OT: Climate Change is real, says Michael Mann

    Well, he is the director of the movie Heat. Robert De Niro:

    As Jimmy McElroy used to say in the yard: “Have nothing in your life that you will not walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the Climate Change coming around the corner.”

    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Michael Mann also directed To Live and Die in L.A.

    Carl Cody: "And the check is in the mail, and I love you, and I promise not to come in your mouth... "

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090180/quotes

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Clifford Brown

  104. @celt darnell
    @Anonymous Nephew

    If anyone wonders why London, virtually alone in England, voted overwhelmingly (60%) for "Remain" in the EU referendum, consider this statistic:

    of the population of London, only 45% are British-born whites (or what we would have simply called "the British" less than 30 years ago).

    Goodness, you'd almost think immigrants and ethnic minorities were less concerned about the question of national sovereignty, wouldn't you?

    Replies: @Anonymous Nephew

    I think few iSteve readers would be surprised by the news that (a/c/t Lord Ashcroft’s private polling org) minorities voted heavily in favour of Remain. Black people were most likely to vote remain, ironic when (as in the US with Latino immigration) it’s their employment prospects that are worst hit by Eastern Europe immigration.

    But they might be surprised to learn that the only minorities to vote majority Leave were Sikhs and Jews (admittedly on a small sample size). Most UK Jews aren’t oligarchs or Guardian op-ed writers.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Anonymous Nephew

    British Jews are somewhat more conservative, ironically; they're worried about Muslim immigrants and don't have the strong attachment to Labour American Jews have to the Democratic party. Plus I guess one of the most famous Tories being of Jewish ancestry's got to help a little.

    I don't know enough about Sikhs to comment.

    Replies: @biz, @V Vega

    , @celt darnell
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Fascinating about the Jews. I heard they were voting 60-40 for remain (based on a poll taken before the vote -- there actually wasn't a lot of ethnic polling for this referendum). But I'll accept Ashcroft's numbers.

    Perhaps our Sephardi brethren recognise there'll be no more Benjamin Disraelis if the EU gets its way.

    Less surprised about the Sikhs -- from my experience, they tend to vote against whatever Muslims vote for.

  105. @Lot
    @Anthony


    At least a million from Detroit, alone.
     
    Much more than one million.

    In 1950, Detroit had 1,545,847 white residents. As of the 2010 census, it is 75,000. But 20,000 of them are hispanics and many of the remainer are Arabs, so really from 1.56 million to something like 0.05 million, a decline of 97%.

    But 1.5 million is not even the full number, since many of Detroit's close-in suburbs suffered the same fate. Haiti-zation?

    River Rouge went from about 20,000 whites to 3,000 whites.
    Ecorse, from 17,000 whites to about 3,000.
    Highland Park, from about 50,000 whites to about 140, a decline of 99.8%.
    Hamtramck went from 56,000 mostly slavic americans to about 25,000 mostly Muslims. Lebanonization, not quite as bad as Haitization. So a decline of about 45,000 whites.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Lot

    A thought experiment.

    If the Detroit of 1950 were plopped onto the ruins of Detroit 2016, Detroit would be the city with the 2nd largest white population (1.54 million) in the USA, behind only New York City, and far ahead of Los Angeles 2016, which has 1.1 million non-hispanic whites, and nearly double Chicago, 860,000.

    Instead, Detroit is not even in the top 100 cities in the USA for white population, and has fewer whites than many of its individual suburbs, like Livonia, Troy, and Royal Oak.

    As for blaming the Jews, it was anti-Semite* Henry Ford, eager importer into Michigan of cheap black southern labor, and the end of the Eastern Euro immigration that he also supported that helped make mid-century Detroit one of the most beautiful and prosperous cities in the world to a bombed out Somalia Inferior.

    *I am allowed to call him an anti-semite without offense here? Was supporting Hitler in the 30’s and publishing/subsidizing The International Jew enough to deserve the label?

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    If you want to call For an anti-semite, that's OK, but if one bothers to check the underlying facts, it's a little more complicated. In the first place, I haven' t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the '30's, but I'd be happy to look at it. As for the International Jew, that's a compilation of Op-Eds from the Dearborn Independent, under Ford's name, which he did not write. He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22. Looking at some of the articles, it sounds like Ford (or his ghost, or both) were in the thrall of contemporary attitudes that felt that Mediterraneans and Jews were destroying America, by virtue of Bolshevism and Anarchism, and by a number of cherry picked stories (many related by Jews) about Jews at the time (e.g., Arnold Rothstein fixing the 1919 World Series, etc.)

    I wouldn't want to let Ford off the hook completely, I'm just not sure what is accomplished by calling him an anti-semite. Is it being suggested that if he didn't hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city? Well, I guess we can say then that at least he wasn't a racist. Does that mean that the bad names cancel each other out?

    Replies: @SFG, @Lot, @Flip

    , @ben tillman
    @Lot


    As for blaming the Jews, it was anti-Semite* Henry Ford, eager importer into Michigan of cheap black southern labor, and the end of the Eastern Euro immigration that he also supported that helped make mid-century Detroit one of the most beautiful and prosperous cities in the world to [sic] a bombed out Somalia Inferior.
     
    Q. How did he import these Black workers?
    A. He didn't. They came to him, and he hired them, as a good citizenist might.

    Q. How did he help make Detroit into a a bombed-out "Somalia Inferior"?
    A. He didn't. He didn't abrogate the right of white people to draw boundaries and exclude those who were incompatible. That was somebody else.
    , @Brutusale
    @Lot

    You mean Adolf Hitler, Time magazine's 1938 Person of the Year?

    I'm not defending Ford from charges of not being a fan of the Chosen, but being a Hitler fanboy in the 30s wasn't quite as lonely a place as you might think.

  106. My mother’s family lived in San Francisco from the 20’s to the late 80’s. I’ve remarked in cocktail party type setting that they were ethnically cleansed by gays and dykes. Makes for a sometimes not so mildly socially awkward chuckle!!

  107. @Peter Johnson
    "Refugee" seems too strong a word for people who change neighborhood to avoid crime. Is there a better term?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Buffalo Joe, @ben tillman

    Peter, How about “Crime flighters ?”

  108. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @27 year old

    Oh, there's good stuff in both the Declaration and in the Constitution. The problem is that the ideas really don't apply universally, and we should have kept tighter reins on who we let into the country. (I've got a lot of old stock in my background.)

    Really, there are two lessons to be gleaned from American history, over and over again.

    First, unfettered immigration is bad for the natives!

    Second, if you'll excuse the anachronism, PICK YOUR OWN GODDAMNED COTTON! Don't import people from elsewhere to be non-citizen cheap labor. You're just fucking up the country long term.

    Replies: @carol

    Agreed, but whites couldn’t handle working in the South.

    DuBois’s dissertation (in Souls of Black Folks) shows how some of the northernmost southern states actually considered getting rid of slavery…which debate made the slavers double down and bring in as many black bodies as they possibly could carry in the ensuing years.

    And so here we are.

    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @carol

    That should have been a good indication to leave them alone, at least for the time being.

    Oh well, the one thing Americans have always been willing to do is _anything_ for a buck.

  109. “It’s not the kind of history you are supposed to know about in 2016.”

    It’s white history. Only history allowed today is loser history – interspersed with devotionals to Jews.

  110. Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as “internal” refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.

    I actually agree that it is a bad idea to grant refugee status to people who’s lives are threatened because they might have committed crimes in their native countries, but trying to use the internment of Americans as an argument for whether foreign citizens should be granted refugee status or not is retarded.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Nick Diaz


    Number of new internal refugees in 2015 sets record

    By Carlo Muñoz - The Washington Times - Wednesday, May 11, 2016
    The number of people forced from their homes within their own country by war and terror across the globe hit a record high in 2015, driven by the brutal violence that has engulfed the Middle East and North Africa over the last several years, according to a new survey released Wednesday.

    The report, complied by the Geneva-based Internal Displacement Monitoring Center and the Norwegian Refugee Council, found that an estimated 40.8 million people had been internally displaced due to ongoing conflicts or natural disasters.

    In 2015 alone, over 27 million new refugees were created in 127 countries and of that total, 8.6 million people were internally displaced by violence and just over 19 million by natural disasters.
     

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/11/number-of-new-internal-refugees-in-2015-sets-recor/
    , @ben tillman
    @Nick Diaz


    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen.
     
    By definition, a refugee is someone who flees his home out of fear for his safety. The fact that you are used to hearing a word in one context doesn't mean it isn't the right word in another context. Steve is right to use this word.

    Replies: @Hacienda, @iSteveFan

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Nick Diaz

    "..............by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen."

    By my definition, Nick Diaz is a foreign citizen.

    , @Tex
    @Nick Diaz


    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as “internal” refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.
     
    You are truly an ignorant, vulgar person.

    http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Refugees_During_the_Civil_War

    http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=6389&type=Time+Period&item=Civil+War+through+Reconstruction+%281861+-+1874%29

    http://oklahomagenealogy.com/indian-refugees-civil-war.htm

    Replies: @woodNfish

  111. Here is some demographic info from the Brexit Exit Poll posted by Anonymous Nephew.

    Percent of Groups Voting for Brexit

    UK Voters in Total 52%

    No formal education 82%
    Retired on State Pension 69%
    Live in Public Housing 68% (UK has much more public housing than the USA)
    HS Grad no College 64%
    Physical Disability 61%
    Christian 58%
    Unemployed and Looking 57%
    Homeowners without mortgage 55%
    Jewish 54%
    Whites 53%
    Sikh 52%
    Buddhist 49%
    Employed Full Time 47%
    No Religion 45%
    Employed by Non-Profit 39%
    Post-Graduate Degree 34%
    Asian 33%
    Hindu 30%
    Chinese 30%
    Muslim 30%
    Black 27%
    College Students 19%

    Conclusions:

    – The degree of PC brainwashing in college is even worse than when most of us were attending.

    – Jews voted for Brexit more than any other demographic other than White English. And much more than Scots and Irish Catholics and probably a little more than Welsh and Irish Protestant. If you adjust for income and education, Jews voted for Brexit more than even more than their well-educated, urban, and higher income white English neighbors.

  112. @Jimi
    Interesting post. This would also challenges the dominant view of postwar history, that white American eagerly deserted the cities to live in new, spacious suburbs to fulfill the American dream.

    Perhaps white Americans were pushed out of the cities and now with low crime levels, are going back to the cities they love. The 1960s-1990s were just a pause in the longterm urbanization of America.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    I suspect there was a vague Anglo / Protestant versus non-Anglo / Catholic divide: British-descended people tended to take off for the crabgrass frontier at the first sign of trouble — settling new land is what they do — while Catholics tended to hunker down more in their neighborhoods and try to hold on. WASPs tended to own most of the suburban and exurban land that could be developed, but needed to sell it to the Catholic urban masses. So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.

    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    @Steve Sailer

    So, a scorched-earth strategy to bleed the badwhites dry every few decades?

    , @SFG
    @Steve Sailer

    Wow. Brilliant. So *that's* what it was all about.

    You should do a post just on that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Lot
    @Steve Sailer


    So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.
     
    There are about a dozen families here in San Diego whose ancestors had the good luck to set up quarries and dairy farms along the San Diego river, which was swampy, smelled bad, and flooded a lot, but became extremely valuable after WWII when it was drained and the city's population rapidly grew. The area is now called Mission Valley, and there are places that were farms in 1960 that are now worth $50+ million.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    There's that scene in The Departed where Matt Damon's character says:


    I want you to know you don't gotta stay. If we're not going to make it, it's got to be you that gets out. I'm not capable. I'm fuckin' Irish, so I'll deal with something being wrong for the rest of my life.
     
  113. @Lot
    @Lot

    A thought experiment.

    If the Detroit of 1950 were plopped onto the ruins of Detroit 2016, Detroit would be the city with the 2nd largest white population (1.54 million) in the USA, behind only New York City, and far ahead of Los Angeles 2016, which has 1.1 million non-hispanic whites, and nearly double Chicago, 860,000.

    Instead, Detroit is not even in the top 100 cities in the USA for white population, and has fewer whites than many of its individual suburbs, like Livonia, Troy, and Royal Oak.

    As for blaming the Jews, it was anti-Semite* Henry Ford, eager importer into Michigan of cheap black southern labor, and the end of the Eastern Euro immigration that he also supported that helped make mid-century Detroit one of the most beautiful and prosperous cities in the world to a bombed out Somalia Inferior.

    *I am allowed to call him an anti-semite without offense here? Was supporting Hitler in the 30's and publishing/subsidizing The International Jew enough to deserve the label?

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Brutusale

    If you want to call For an anti-semite, that’s OK, but if one bothers to check the underlying facts, it’s a little more complicated. In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30’s, but I’d be happy to look at it. As for the International Jew, that’s a compilation of Op-Eds from the Dearborn Independent, under Ford’s name, which he did not write. He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22. Looking at some of the articles, it sounds like Ford (or his ghost, or both) were in the thrall of contemporary attitudes that felt that Mediterraneans and Jews were destroying America, by virtue of Bolshevism and Anarchism, and by a number of cherry picked stories (many related by Jews) about Jews at the time (e.g., Arnold Rothstein fixing the 1919 World Series, etc.)

    I wouldn’t want to let Ford off the hook completely, I’m just not sure what is accomplished by calling him an anti-semite. Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city? Well, I guess we can say then that at least he wasn’t a racist. Does that mean that the bad names cancel each other out?

    • Replies: @SFG
    @SPMoore8

    Didn't he run into some business problem with a Jewish banker or something? My Google-fu is failing me right now. I suspect it may have been one of these things where someone rips you off and you blame the whole group--there was a similar crack in Candide.

    , @Lot
    @SPMoore8


    In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30′s, but I’d be happy to look at it.
     
    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime, including using slave labor, right up until Pearl Harbor. These were weapons, including V2 rockets, that were directly used against our allies France and Britain.

    He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22.
     
    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits, as well as resentment by dealers.

    Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city?
     
    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit's case by Henry Ford more than any other single person, is what causes the demographic decline and collapse of civilizations. And further that the "filling up" of the USA by non-white immigrant labor after 1970 would have been far less extreme if we had accepted more poor European immigrants from 1924 to 1960.

    We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we'd take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Clifford Brown, @SPMoore8, @Mr. Anon

    , @Flip
    @SPMoore8

    Ford was mentioned favorably in Mein Kampf.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ron Unz

  114. @Whiskey
    The internal refugee number is likely north of 60 million. At least. But over around 60 years or so.

    The point is that this internal refugee flood is a result of the Civil War Among Whites. On one side are the Charles Murrays, who would rather live in and around (but not REALLY) Little Vietnams than "Whitebread America." This is a CLASS struggle. Upper Class Whites really hate hate hate lower class Whites. They fear competition and have themselves uncertain status and situations. It is not as if they have aristocratic titles that are unquestioned, one social slip and they can be sliding in class and status.

    On the other side are the ordinary people who for a very long time trusted and accepted elite leadership in the new media, infotainment, government, law, the military, and political party leadership. That trust is now gone, with Trump and Brexit alike playing a part in blowing apart the old ties.

    The problem is the Charles Murrays. Upper class Jews like say Matty Yglesias flow with whatever the current the Murrays create. If the Ivy League Leadership was all nationalism, borders, citizens first and that gave or cemented higher social status, you better believe Matty Yglesias would be one hundred percent in favor of it; as it would feed his Maslow Hierarchy of needs -- social standing and status.

    And the question is why do the Upper Classes hate the lower ones so much? Answer, Marie Antoinette syndrome. Nice White Ladies influencing and moving the culture. This is particularly magnified by the status aspirations of young women and young women's influence on the wider culture given the delayed marriage rate and corresponding magnification of the sex and mate market to astronomical levels.

    The ethnic cleansing of middle and working class Whites from major urban areas and close in suburbs is a feature, not a bug, of the Civil War Among Whites driven mostly by Nice White Lady hatred of the lower classes which has been a feature of Nice White Ladies since the dawning days of feminism as empowerment for Upper Class White ladies in the late 1700s.

    Replies: @anonymous

    The internal refugee number is likely north of 60 million. At least. But over around 60 years or so.

    It’s probably one of the largest transfers of population in all history yet goes under the radar because it’s been a slow moving train crash.

  115. @carol
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Agreed, but whites couldn't handle working in the South.

    DuBois's dissertation (in Souls of Black Folks) shows how some of the northernmost southern states actually considered getting rid of slavery...which debate made the slavers double down and bring in as many black bodies as they possibly could carry in the ensuing years.

    And so here we are.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

    That should have been a good indication to leave them alone, at least for the time being.

    Oh well, the one thing Americans have always been willing to do is _anything_ for a buck.

  116. @Nick Diaz
    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as "internal" refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.

    I actually agree that it is a bad idea to grant refugee status to people who's lives are threatened because they might have committed crimes in their native countries, but trying to use the internment of Americans as an argument for whether foreign citizens should be granted refugee status or not is retarded.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @ben tillman, @Mr. Anon, @Tex

    Number of new internal refugees in 2015 sets record

    By Carlo Muñoz – The Washington Times – Wednesday, May 11, 2016
    The number of people forced from their homes within their own country by war and terror across the globe hit a record high in 2015, driven by the brutal violence that has engulfed the Middle East and North Africa over the last several years, according to a new survey released Wednesday.

    The report, complied by the Geneva-based Internal Displacement Monitoring Center and the Norwegian Refugee Council, found that an estimated 40.8 million people had been internally displaced due to ongoing conflicts or natural disasters.

    In 2015 alone, over 27 million new refugees were created in 127 countries and of that total, 8.6 million people were internally displaced by violence and just over 19 million by natural disasters.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/11/number-of-new-internal-refugees-in-2015-sets-recor/

  117. @JackOH
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    "Radical and destructive." That's how I described my U. S. government about the time I thought about emigrating from the States. One thought experiment I used was something like: "How can you tell you're living in Nazi Germany or Bolshevik Russia?"--the caricatured societies we see on the Discovery channel? I concluded it's mostly very difficult, and you gotta make judgment calls about whether your government and your society have crossed some line in the sand.

    Our nearby state university's philosophy and English departments have been transformed into internal gay lobbies, and, in the process, academic laughingstocks. One traditionalist academic who attempted to publicly address how aberrant behavior was ruining collegiality and academic quality was mocked in the student newspaper, then ignored. So we've got drag queen shows, safe spaces, special pleading for the gays and lesbians, etc.

    " . . . [B]ig goddamned hate straight white men festival . . . ." You're not wrong, buddy, not wrong.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Anon

    Our nearby state university’s philosophy and English departments have been transformed into internal gay lobbies, and, in the process, academic laughingstocks. One traditionalist academic who attempted to publicly address how aberrant behavior was ruining collegiality and academic quality was mocked in the student newspaper, then ignored. So we’ve got drag queen shows, safe spaces, special pleading for the gays and lesbians, etc.

    I’ve been amused lately thinking about the current crop of college students. With their anti-CrimeThink attitudes and the vapors they have whenever someone violates a ‘safe space’ they have managed something of a hermaphroditic ideal by being both dicks and pussies at the same time.

  118. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @SPMoore8


    OT: Climate Change is real, says Michael Mann
     
    Well, he is the director of the movie Heat. Robert De Niro:

    As Jimmy McElroy used to say in the yard: “Have nothing in your life that you will not walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the Climate Change coming around the corner.”
     

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Michael Mann also directed To Live and Die in L.A.

    Carl Cody: “And the check is in the mail, and I love you, and I promise not to come in your mouth… ”

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090180/quotes

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jim Don Bob

    "Michael Mann also directed To Live and Die in L.A."

    No, that was William Friedkin.

    , @Clifford Brown
    @Jim Don Bob

    This is a different Michael Mann than the Hollywood director.

  119. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @27 year old

    More like: 2000 year old sermons. Like Gato said, the Declaration and Constitution are fine. Free people should always be willing to fight to defend them. (One change: Drop birthright citizenship.)

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Jack Hanson

    Like Gato said, the Declaration and Constitution are fine. Free people should always be willing to fight to defend them.

    But who are you going to fight, and who will fight with you? It’s been a drip-drip-drip change, and suddenly one day people realize it looks like a deluge. But people just accept this new reality as both immutable and unstoppable.

    Yes, looking at it written down it probably means we’re not a free people anymore. But I am defeated on this issue, as I’ve acknowledged from time to time. I just don’t see any hope.

    (One change: Drop birthright citizenship.)

    Fuckin’ goddamned A.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Gato de la Biblioteca


    But who are you going to fight, and who will fight with you?
     
    Short answer to both: EVERYONE.

    Seriously, though, don’t be too glum about things as they stand right now. It looks bad, yeah. I’m not sure the median age of the typical iSteve commenter/lurker, but I imagine there are plenty of Boomers whose heads are spinning at the 'checkmate' level of demographic change occurring, especially having grown up in pre ’65 “white-bread” America (or Europe). I’m Gen X, and my head is spinning.

    Here’s the thing: History is full of stunning reversals. I’m not making any predictions, but a lot can happen if people feel they have nothing to lose. Some give up and nod off to oxys. Others may be emboldened to take up a new challenge. Steve for years has called attention to

    The National Question—whether the nation-state can survive as the political expression of a particular people.
     
    Via Steve, Peter Brimelow in VDARE:

    As I said, this is shaping up to be a long and terrible war. But a hard core of immigration patriots is forming that does not fear it. And the blame for it falls squarely on the heads of the immigration enthusiasts.
     
  120. @Buffalo Joe
    @Harry Baldwin

    Harry, Your reasoned response is what is sadly lacking from American discourse. I mentioned before that I listened to an NPR station (out of Boston I think) while driving for three and a half hours to Cleveland. Best comment I heard was from a caller who said...." you know your program would be better if it didn't always include you (the host) and a panel of four liberals." No comments on the Sacramento story except to point out that they were white nationalist, but I believe they said Neo-Nazis or white supremacists. No mention that THEY were attacked by Mexicans, whether legal immigrants or not.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Harry Baldwin

    LA Times changed their story. On Sunday they quoted someone from the SPLC saying the group was nativist but NOT white supremacist. I couldn’t look at pictures or film, but in any case it is inexcusable for the police to not protect the right to protest and advocate your position. Yes, the imports certainly are enriching our culture. /s

  121. @Buffalo Joe
    @Harry Baldwin

    Harry, Your reasoned response is what is sadly lacking from American discourse. I mentioned before that I listened to an NPR station (out of Boston I think) while driving for three and a half hours to Cleveland. Best comment I heard was from a caller who said...." you know your program would be better if it didn't always include you (the host) and a panel of four liberals." No comments on the Sacramento story except to point out that they were white nationalist, but I believe they said Neo-Nazis or white supremacists. No mention that THEY were attacked by Mexicans, whether legal immigrants or not.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Harry Baldwin

    “you know your program would be better if it didn’t always include you (the host) and a panel of four liberals.”

    Sounds like my local public radio station. A weekly political discussion panel features a range of opinion from conventional leftist to wacko leftist. They really have no interest in hearing from anyone else. I understand, though. There is no longer any grounds for reasoned debate. They just want to destroy people like us.

  122. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @27 year old

    More like: 2000 year old sermons. Like Gato said, the Declaration and Constitution are fine. Free people should always be willing to fight to defend them. (One change: Drop birthright citizenship.)

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Jack Hanson

    Re: your second point

    Birthright citizenship was fine until a SCOTUS judge foot noted it in.

    Do something about unelected mandarins.

  123. @Marcus
    @Lurker

    But if they do come back it's "gentrification," which is the worst thing ever

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Good point. Get you coming and going. The only reason I’d like to live another 50 years is to see young whites who didn’t think they were YT in their borderless paradise when we’re gone.

  124. @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.

    Compensating or “overcompensating” (for what?) after growing up in a college town is not a “thing”. I grew up in a college town, and less than 1% of my Facebook friends from back home express any SJW opinions.

    Now, growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon — that’s different. Our one next-door neighbor did just that, and she is a loony liberal.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @ben tillman

    What part of the country? I get the sense a lot of Southern and Midwestern college towns are mostly into football and so on and might be mildly less conservative than the surrounding area but not by a huge degree.

    Now if it's a *famous* college town like Madison, Bloomington, Iowa City, Moscow, or Chapel Hill, that's a different story.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    @ben tillman

    Ever watch Portlandia?

    Kristof seems to wracked with white guilt that he grew up on a small farm with a cherry orchard with his college professor parents.

    For Kristof that white people can build nice lives for themselves and their families while brown/black skinned people struggle to do so must mean racism, exploitation, magic dirt.....

    SWPLtude and Virtue Signaling describe Kristof to a T.

    , @Boomstick
    @ben tillman

    I grew up the next town over from Kristof, a few years later. It was an interesting time. There was a mix of farmers and the initial wedge of proto-SWPLs, the back-to-the-earth hippies in the 60's and 70's. The ur-SWPLs weren't yet numerous enough to have a self-contained society, and small towns aren't conducive to that anyway. There aren't enough people in Yamhill to socialize exclusively with people who think the same way. While he had college professor parents, Yamhill-Carlton high school was not a high school like those found in NoVa that are a pipeline to elite colleges. Kristof overplays his rural background; his father started teaching at PSU in '71 after grad school and postdocs in places like Chicago, and Nick graduated from high school in '77, then decamped to fancy schools.

    Since that era Portland has grown to completely dominate the state, and it's populated by standard-issue progressives who only talk to other bog-standard progressives.

  125. @Peter Johnson
    "Refugee" seems too strong a word for people who change neighborhood to avoid crime. Is there a better term?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Buffalo Joe, @ben tillman

    “Refugee” seems too strong a word for people who change neighborhood to avoid crime. Is there a better term?

    In a word, no.

    • Replies: @Ace
    @ben tillman

    That is four words.

  126. I remember as a child my family moved to Grand Rapids Michigan in the early 1950s and we lived in a blue collar, racially mixed neighborhood (Wealthy Street for those who know GR) which was completely safe and a wonderful place for people with modest means to raise their families. The streets were safe day and night. Twenty years later it was completely black, a drug zone, with high crime rates and a scene of desolation. Anyone, black or white, who could get out did. This was replicated in cities across the country. When I moved to St. Louis in the 1970s a life long resident told me how as a child she and her friends used to sleep in Forest Park, a place now where even in the day time you can get mugged.

    White flight was indeed the flight of those who did not want to live in fear of their lives and property.

  127. @AndrewR
    @wren

    Sotomayor will go down I'm history as the most embarrassingly incompetent SCOTUS judge ever.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Yes, and you can’t fool really smart people too. When the young Jewish and Chinese kids who are headed to the federal court system are reading excerpts of her opinions in university, they will recognize it. She is going to be a long-term embarrassment for Obama and the left.

  128. I can one up you on this front. If a high homicide rate is a just cause for refugee status, as Liberals like Kristof espouse, and furthermore, if refugees must be granted sanctuary in safer countries without any consideration as to the impact the refugees would have on the country in which they are seeking asylum, as Liberals like Kristof espouse, then, the residents of Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit and New Orleans (all cities with homicide rates much higher than Guatemala) should be guaranteed asylum status in safer countries, such as Canada or Germany.

    How would Canada react if the US, like Mexico does, orchestrated to send its underclass North of the Border?

    Sadder question, how many of these Guatemala crime refugees are settled by the US government in American cities with homicide rates even higher than the hellish circumstances that they are allegedly fleeing? I am willing to bet quite a few.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Clifford Brown

    Oh man, to set up a refugee resettlement program from the ghetto to Canada... That would be the greatest prank ever

  129. @Anon
    The obvious parallel is what's happening in South Africa and Zimbabwe, where whites have been forced out of many places where they used to live. Most people would never make the comparison because of fear of crimethink. This would not be happening if whites weren't a people divided against themselves by political philosophy. Nowadays, anyone who goes to school needs to be deprogrammed, so we have to take back the schools and get rid of this present generation of liberalism-addled teachers.

    Replies: @Yak-15

    This is a fact.

  130. @Lot
    @AndrewR

    No, Lebanization means that what happened in Hamtramk, Michigan, the replacement of a Christian majority with a Muslim minority, is the same thing that happened to Lebanon.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Ah true.

    But the Poles would have left anyway. Why would a fourth or greater generation “Pole”, with no real connection to Poland or Polish culture, want to live in a tiny enclave of Detroit?

    • Replies: @Lot
    @AndrewR


    Why would a fourth or greater generation “Pole”, with no real connection to Poland or Polish culture, want to live in a tiny enclave of Detroit?
     
    Well actually many did want to stay, and stayed quite a while longer than Detroit whites did because they did like living among similar people.

    Another reason is they physical city. 1880-1950 American whites sacrificed to build their cities to last a long time, unlike the cheaper-built post-war suburbs.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @AndrewR

  131. @Marcus
    @Lurker

    But if they do come back it's "gentrification," which is the worst thing ever

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Would you want to live next to the douchebags who flock to most gentrification projects?

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Depends: are blacks, "hispanics," etc. the other options?

  132. @Erik Sieven
    @anon

    mass immigration is bad but wwII was worse

    Replies: @SFG, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad

    What, 50 million dead (44 million for the hardcore alt-righters)? You must be new here.

  133. @Dirk Dagger
    @wren


    And let's get a couple things straight, a little side note, the burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That is not our job, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest--if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, don't make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

    We've been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we're done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we're magic doesn't mean were not real. Thank you. --2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)
     

    Replies: @JsP, @Anonymous Nephew, @peterike, @Hiram Abiff, @AnotherDad

    We’ve been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit.

    This “plunder” concept, popularized by Teh Genius Coates, is so risible. Okay, white people will stop using what we’ve “appropriated” from blacks: the music, dance, speech patterns and fashion associated with hip-hop culture (or, “culture”). In return, blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc.

    I have no idea how America would retain a first world standard of living without its massive looting of the black bodies of criminals, welfare recipients and/or single mothers.

    (Incidentally that gives me the idea: has anyone thought to satirize TNC’s concept of “plunder” after a Black Lives Matter riot?)

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Hiram Abiff

    Bizarrely, I get it. Black people come up with rhythm and blues, and white people turn it into rock and roll and get rich.

    Now of course there's rap, where black people are still in charge, and surprise, surprise...the rappers blow it all on bling. And black people are still poor.

    The explanation's obvious, but it's kind of hard to admit to yourself. Most people don't even want to admit they're too lazy, disorganized, ugly, fat, old, or what have you to get the job or girl/boy they want. Can you imagine accepting that *your entire extended family and everyone who looks like you* is never going to be equal with the rest of society? Forget bitter, it's a 0.1 M solution of sodium hydroxide.

    Hell, it took me ages to accept what all the lefty Jews in the media/academia/etc. were up to as a group (this *specifically excludes* all you commenters, you know that), and I don't even know any of them personally or have any real connection to the religion except for lighting a few candles and getting a second set of presents growing up. My mom is a nice old lady (but hey, I would say that, she's my mom) who agrees with me on illegal immigration and is thinking about voting for Trump.

    Replies: @Kylie

    , @Zach
    @Hiram Abiff

    "...blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc. "

    And the English Language.

    Replies: @Kylie

  134. @Anonymous Nephew
    @celt darnell

    I think few iSteve readers would be surprised by the news that (a/c/t Lord Ashcroft's private polling org) minorities voted heavily in favour of Remain. Black people were most likely to vote remain, ironic when (as in the US with Latino immigration) it's their employment prospects that are worst hit by Eastern Europe immigration.

    But they might be surprised to learn that the only minorities to vote majority Leave were Sikhs and Jews (admittedly on a small sample size). Most UK Jews aren't oligarchs or Guardian op-ed writers.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

    Replies: @SFG, @celt darnell

    British Jews are somewhat more conservative, ironically; they’re worried about Muslim immigrants and don’t have the strong attachment to Labour American Jews have to the Democratic party. Plus I guess one of the most famous Tories being of Jewish ancestry’s got to help a little.

    I don’t know enough about Sikhs to comment.

    • Replies: @biz
    @SFG

    Sikhs also have a long history of being oppressed by Muslims. The founder of Sikhism was tortured to death by Muslims and they pretty much kept up with it until the British took over.

    , @V Vega
    @SFG


    I don’t know enough about Sikhs to comment.

     

    The short story is they've kicked Muslim ass throughout their history. The way they do it ain't pretty.

    Sikhs dont play games with Muslims. That's why Muslims try to avoid conflict with them.
  135. If he fled to Mexico he’s already away from Honduras, so why the need to import him into the US, anyway? How charitable of Mexican president Nieto, to work so courageously with Obama to send Honduran criminal refugees to the United States.

    Call me a skeptical old racist but somehow, I just can’t picture young Cristobal living up to the brilliant Dreamer we’re promised, who just needs a little helping hand from the US taxpayer for college and a roof over his head for a few years and he’ll make cold fusion a reality for all us dumb oafish backscratching white folk in the US who couldn’t achieve their way out of a paper bag.

  136. @ben tillman
    @anonymous-antimarxist


    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.
     
    Compensating or "overcompensating" (for what?) after growing up in a college town is not a "thing". I grew up in a college town, and less than 1% of my Facebook friends from back home express any SJW opinions.

    Now, growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon -- that's different. Our one next-door neighbor did just that, and she is a loony liberal.

    Replies: @SFG, @anonymous-antimarxist, @Boomstick

    What part of the country? I get the sense a lot of Southern and Midwestern college towns are mostly into football and so on and might be mildly less conservative than the surrounding area but not by a huge degree.

    Now if it’s a *famous* college town like Madison, Bloomington, Iowa City, Moscow, or Chapel Hill, that’s a different story.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @SFG


    What part of the country? I get the sense a lot of Southern and Midwestern college towns are mostly into football and so on and might be mildly less conservative than the surrounding area but not by a huge degree.
     
    I agree that college towns are generally less conservative than the surrounding areas, but it's this "overcompensation" thing (again, compensation for what?) -- apparently meaning that the kids in town go even further to the left -- that seems bogus to me.
  137. My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.

  138. Steve, OT, but you really should have a post displaying the chart in this article from the WaPo:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/27/the-losers-have-revolted-and-brexit-is-only-the-beginning/

    It’s as sharp a graphic of the horrible economic impact of globalism on Western countries as I’ve ever seen.

    Who are the obvious losers? Exactly the middle and working classes in Western countries. Everybody else — everybody else — is winning, big time.

    It’s almost amazing to me that we have not seen a graph like this before.

    Trump should show this chart on a screen, point out with a laser the huge gap in the middle, and say to his audience, “This is you. This is what the elitists and globalists have done to you. Do you think you deserve this?”

    The elites have a lot of explaining to do. It is beyond contemptible that they would try to depict the middle and working class people as racists and xenophobes for having a problem with globalism.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @candid_observer

    "The elites have a lot of explaining to do. It is beyond contemptible that they would try to depict the middle and working class people as racists and xenophobes for having a problem with globalism."

    It is beyond contemptible for the elites to suggest that european people have no legitimate right to be racists and xenophobes in their own damned country.

    , @candid_observer
    @candid_observer

    One further observation regarding this graph is how clearly it shows the leapfrogging loyalties of the globalists.

    They leap over the backs of middle/working classes in Western countries to serve the interests of everyone outside of those Western countries.

  139. @Hiram Abiff
    @Dirk Dagger


    We’ve been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit.
     
    This "plunder" concept, popularized by Teh Genius Coates, is so risible. Okay, white people will stop using what we've "appropriated" from blacks: the music, dance, speech patterns and fashion associated with hip-hop culture (or, "culture"). In return, blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc.

    I have no idea how America would retain a first world standard of living without its massive looting of the black bodies of criminals, welfare recipients and/or single mothers.

    (Incidentally that gives me the idea: has anyone thought to satirize TNC's concept of "plunder" after a Black Lives Matter riot?)

    Replies: @SFG, @Zach

    Bizarrely, I get it. Black people come up with rhythm and blues, and white people turn it into rock and roll and get rich.

    Now of course there’s rap, where black people are still in charge, and surprise, surprise…the rappers blow it all on bling. And black people are still poor.

    The explanation’s obvious, but it’s kind of hard to admit to yourself. Most people don’t even want to admit they’re too lazy, disorganized, ugly, fat, old, or what have you to get the job or girl/boy they want. Can you imagine accepting that *your entire extended family and everyone who looks like you* is never going to be equal with the rest of society? Forget bitter, it’s a 0.1 M solution of sodium hydroxide.

    Hell, it took me ages to accept what all the lefty Jews in the media/academia/etc. were up to as a group (this *specifically excludes* all you commenters, you know that), and I don’t even know any of them personally or have any real connection to the religion except for lighting a few candles and getting a second set of presents growing up. My mom is a nice old lady (but hey, I would say that, she’s my mom) who agrees with me on illegal immigration and is thinking about voting for Trump.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @SFG

    You think blacks and you [non-observant] Jews have it bad?

    I'm a white middle-class woman. You know, one of the group Whiskey is always railing against.* I'm expected to have drunk, wallowed in and douched with the Kool-Aid all the other white middle-class women have used. And when they realize I haven't, they turn on me. No solidarity or sororal loyalty for me. And frankly, that's a two-way street. I feel nothing but contempt and hostility toward them.

    I've always loved being female, never wanted to be anything else. But when I read about and listen to the sheer idiocy and lunacy most of that group spews, I don't even think of myself as a woman in the same sense that they are women.

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @iSteveFan, @Ace, @Mark2, @Monopthalmus

  140. @Steve Sailer
    @Jimi

    I suspect there was a vague Anglo / Protestant versus non-Anglo / Catholic divide: British-descended people tended to take off for the crabgrass frontier at the first sign of trouble -- settling new land is what they do -- while Catholics tended to hunker down more in their neighborhoods and try to hold on. WASPs tended to own most of the suburban and exurban land that could be developed, but needed to sell it to the Catholic urban masses. So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.

    Replies: @WowJustWow, @SFG, @Lot, @Dave Pinsen

    So, a scorched-earth strategy to bleed the badwhites dry every few decades?

  141. @Dirk Dagger
    @wren


    And let's get a couple things straight, a little side note, the burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That is not our job, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest--if you have no interest in equal rights for black people, don't make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

    We've been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we're done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because where we're magic doesn't mean were not real. Thank you. --2016 BET Humanitarian Award (sponsored by State Farm) acceptance speech by Jesse Williams (actor, Grey’s Anatomy)
     

    Replies: @JsP, @Anonymous Nephew, @peterike, @Hiram Abiff, @AnotherDad

    Pure comedy gold.

    The reality that lottery winners–really *the* big winners, from trans-atlantic slavery–believe that they are “oppressed” … amazing. But that’s what 50 years of propaganda from the nation hating destroyers can do.

    Reality check: being a screwup, does not make you oppressed, it merely makes you … a screwup!

  142. Steve, have you read the slaughterer of cities by e. Michael jones or not?

    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Josh

    Amen, that book really clarifies the the social engineering of the "white" American ethnics (Jones considers the targeted ethnics to be: Northern Catholics and, in other writings, Southern Protestants) to eliminate their ability to form/maintain solidarity, consensus, and power... it would seem that the new Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing Rule is targeting Midwestern nice-whites... Jones also considers "white" as a negative signifier that got transferred from the South to the nation as a whole, which complicates forming political alliances between Catholics, Protestants and Jews, and even worse, just muddies the waters of what the hell "white" means. See: Tim Wise etc.

    , @Percy Gryce
    @Josh

    Jones is a Sailer-like figure, isn't he? I have great sympathy for him, but he needs an editor badly.

  143. Lot of good comments here. Hat’s off to all. Is there a prof or journalist with time on his hands and the right skill set who’d be willing to put together a 150 pp. booklet on the White (mostly) Voelkerwanderung dating from the 1960s on? I’ll offer a hint: let the evidence make the argument.

    Taking a leaf from Commenter #74, International Jew, one goal of the booklet probably ought to be to determine, if it can be done, the costs of migration to those who felt they had to leave involuntarily, because government could not provide reasonable safety for those who otherwise wanted to remain in their homes.

  144. @Steve Sailer
    @Peter Johnson

    "Displaced person?"

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    “Displaced person?”

    ‘Displaced person’ is highly evocative term.

  145. @JohnnyD
    Obviously, the Founding Fathers, such as Alexander Hamilton, built this country to be a haven for young Honduran drug dealers. Speaking of Hamilton, maybe Kristof's new friend could land a rap solo in Lin-Manuel Miranda's musical.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Obviously, the Founding Fathers, such as Alexander Hamilton, built this country to be a haven for young Honduran drug dealers.”

    A little known fact is that Hamilton was himself a central American drug dealer. A transgendered one to boot. These facts – which will become true once somebody makes them up – will be widely publicized in high-school history essays (excuse me, xstory essays) and broadway musicals.

  146. @peterike
    @Dirk Dagger

    Lol! That BET award speech is one of the silliest things ever. Just nonsense, top to bottom. And it would take ten thousand words to untangle the knots of idiocy binding it all tightly together. Such is the power of mindless cant when backed up by the Narrative.

    Oh, and that Jesse Williams? Yeah, he's really black, gosh is he ever.

    http://blameebro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/o-JESSE-WILLIAMS-facebook.jpg

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Brutusale

    Lol! That BET award speech is one of the silliest things ever. Just nonsense, top to bottom. And it would take ten thousand words to untangle the knots of idiocy binding it all tightly together. Such is the power of mindless cant when backed up by the Narrative.

    And amplified by the Megaphone.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @ben tillman

    You are right, the Jesse Williams speech has been megaphoned into the article that everyone has to read right now, having firmly supplanted the "You don't know me, but we're here today because you were inside me" victim statement in the Stanford sexual assault case. Such Himalayan peaks of SJW rhetoric are usually followed by a long series lesser peaks consisting of online replies written by victims to anonymous individuals who (a) left a nasty note on their vehicle when they parked in a handicapped space, (b) looked at them funny when they went to the restroom, (c) left a snide comment on their check when paying, (d) criticized their child for vomiting in a crowded restaurant, or (e) criticizing them for whaling on their kid for being out of control in public.

    "You have got to read this!"

    The Williams speech is a rehash of well known platitudes. Slavery, extracted labor. Check. Never mind we have spent 50 years attempting to atone for that. But according to Coates, this compensation in one form or another must continue until black performance in all fields is imperceptible from white performance: sort of like the Ramadan of Reparations. Which, if there is even a scintilla of truth to HBD, will continue for centuries.

    The bit about "extracting our culture" is obviously a reference to the fact that black people invented all the good things in American culture, like the Blues, Jazz, R&B, Rap, and twerking. On the other hand I don't think any white person really complains when Black Persons have previously dabbled in culturally white fields, like film, musicals, symphonies, novels, philosophy, astronomy, physics, engineering, and so on. On the contrary, anytime an African American displays any competency in such fields it is greeted as the greatest thing since -- white bread.

    The last two sentences need to be quoted again because in the space of a few lines he references several concepts that require extensive explication in and of themselves ("black gold", "gentrifying", "strange fruit", "magic [negroes]") but which don't fit together at all.


    extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because we’re magic doesn’t mean we're not real.
     

    Replies: @ben tillman

  147. @candid_observer
    Steve, OT, but you really should have a post displaying the chart in this article from the WaPo:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/27/the-losers-have-revolted-and-brexit-is-only-the-beginning/

    It's as sharp a graphic of the horrible economic impact of globalism on Western countries as I've ever seen.

    Who are the obvious losers? Exactly the middle and working classes in Western countries. Everybody else -- everybody else -- is winning, big time.

    It's almost amazing to me that we have not seen a graph like this before.

    Trump should show this chart on a screen, point out with a laser the huge gap in the middle, and say to his audience, "This is you. This is what the elitists and globalists have done to you. Do you think you deserve this?"

    The elites have a lot of explaining to do. It is beyond contemptible that they would try to depict the middle and working class people as racists and xenophobes for having a problem with globalism.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @candid_observer

    “The elites have a lot of explaining to do. It is beyond contemptible that they would try to depict the middle and working class people as racists and xenophobes for having a problem with globalism.”

    It is beyond contemptible for the elites to suggest that european people have no legitimate right to be racists and xenophobes in their own damned country.

  148. @Steve Sailer
    @Richard of Melbourne

    Somebody should paint a picture of Emma Lazarus carving the Zeroth Amendment to the Bill of Rights onto the Statue of Liberty straight from the mouth of God.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Henry Bowman, @E. Harding, @Eric Novak, @Bill Jones

    If I paid someone to do so in a light that reflected the tone you wanted would you use it? Honest question.

  149. @Jim Don Bob
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Michael Mann also directed To Live and Die in L.A.

    Carl Cody: "And the check is in the mail, and I love you, and I promise not to come in your mouth... "

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090180/quotes

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Clifford Brown

    “Michael Mann also directed To Live and Die in L.A.”

    No, that was William Friedkin.

  150. @Steve Sailer
    @Jimi

    I suspect there was a vague Anglo / Protestant versus non-Anglo / Catholic divide: British-descended people tended to take off for the crabgrass frontier at the first sign of trouble -- settling new land is what they do -- while Catholics tended to hunker down more in their neighborhoods and try to hold on. WASPs tended to own most of the suburban and exurban land that could be developed, but needed to sell it to the Catholic urban masses. So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.

    Replies: @WowJustWow, @SFG, @Lot, @Dave Pinsen

    Wow. Brilliant. So *that’s* what it was all about.

    You should do a post just on that.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @SFG

    I don't know if this WASP v. Catholic distinction in propensity for white flight is all that tenable but I've been kicking it around for awhile.

    The idea is that British-Americans have a frontier tradition, and perhaps some of the Protestant Continentals, while most of the Catholic groups had an urban tradition: the Irish believed in taking over urban institutions like the police and the Catholic Church. Italians like high density living near their relatives. I don't know stereotypes about lower profile Catholics like Poles.

    Here's a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it's ethnic, perhaps it's the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it's economic.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Brutusale, @AnotherDad, @Muse, @biz

  151. @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    If you want to call For an anti-semite, that's OK, but if one bothers to check the underlying facts, it's a little more complicated. In the first place, I haven' t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the '30's, but I'd be happy to look at it. As for the International Jew, that's a compilation of Op-Eds from the Dearborn Independent, under Ford's name, which he did not write. He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22. Looking at some of the articles, it sounds like Ford (or his ghost, or both) were in the thrall of contemporary attitudes that felt that Mediterraneans and Jews were destroying America, by virtue of Bolshevism and Anarchism, and by a number of cherry picked stories (many related by Jews) about Jews at the time (e.g., Arnold Rothstein fixing the 1919 World Series, etc.)

    I wouldn't want to let Ford off the hook completely, I'm just not sure what is accomplished by calling him an anti-semite. Is it being suggested that if he didn't hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city? Well, I guess we can say then that at least he wasn't a racist. Does that mean that the bad names cancel each other out?

    Replies: @SFG, @Lot, @Flip

    Didn’t he run into some business problem with a Jewish banker or something? My Google-fu is failing me right now. I suspect it may have been one of these things where someone rips you off and you blame the whole group–there was a similar crack in Candide.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  152. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @JackOH

    Government policies that compel your displacement from your home at a terrible price, and Government policies that truncate your career prospects for ostensibly reasons of racial justice? How much more does anyone need to spell “legitimate, well-founded grievance”?

    IRL I have been telling people for several years now that the Constitution is no longer the founding document that should motivate their politics, that the Declaration of Independence is far more pertinent.

    Or rather, I used to. These days I've given up any hope for the future of this country. The people running the show want more Dr. Frank-N-Furters in bathrooms with little girls, and more Muslim towel heads to come over here and diversify the place. And when those two things come to a head as in Orlando? Well, it is all turned into a big goddamned hate straight white men festival, and everyone ignores that the camel fuckers would rather shot the fags en masse than sing "Kumbaya" with ass fuckers. The AG is even running around saying we'll never know what the shooter's motivations were, so we'd better hammer the fuck out of those Christian bakers and the NRA before this happens again.

    Really, if you can, make escape plans for your children's sake, though God knows where you'd go now that even London is a Third World city.

    Replies: @27 year old, @Martine, @JackOH, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    make escape plans for your children’s sake, though God knows where you’d go

    Exactly, go where? Or, instead of escape, how about we cowboy up and retake America? If the Brits can defy “the good and the great,” why can’t we?

    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Or, instead of escape, how about we cowboy up and retake America? If the Brits can defy “the good and the great,” why can’t we?

    America is much farther down the road than the UK. We have much higher minority populations, both foreign and domestic, and more rush in every day. And almost EVERY GODDAMNED ONE of our pols wants even more, works hard every business day to achieve it, and they've been winning for the last 51 years. They won the first several decades of battles without anyone even noticing there was a war on. Some do it for the financial gain of their backers, and some for the political gain of their party. I don't believe a goddamned one of them is sincere.

    It's too late to win at the ballot box. Even if Trump wins, and tries to do the things he has said he'll do, he'll face a Senate that is over 95% hostile to his stated goals, and a House that will be over 90% hostile. No party, no accomplishments, and Trump will have no party. I think three candidates of Congress have now been primaried out in the 24 or 25 states that have had primaries?

    And if Trump loses? Paul Ryan and whatever is left of the Republicans will say, "We lost because we didn't embrace making America Third World Again enough!"

    It's over. Whites can get organized for the interests of themselves as a whole anymore (if they ever could) because a good deal, no, make that virtually 100%, of the top has sold out, a good deal of the middle has been bullied into believing whatever bullshit gets spouted, and the bottom never really accomplishes much without guidance from above.

    So, you can't win by elections, because you can't even get your candidates on the fucking ballots in November.

    That leaves violence. Who you planning to shoot? Are you going to be part of the forlorn hope that gets the revolution started? Knowing full well that most forlorn hopes trying to start revolutions end up getting their asses slaughtered and no revolution ever comes of it?

    Nope. It's done. If you want to fight, God (or Fortune, or the old pagan gods of your ancestors, or the Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster) bless you. But too many of us are spent. We've got nothing left.

  153. @Lot
    @Lot

    A thought experiment.

    If the Detroit of 1950 were plopped onto the ruins of Detroit 2016, Detroit would be the city with the 2nd largest white population (1.54 million) in the USA, behind only New York City, and far ahead of Los Angeles 2016, which has 1.1 million non-hispanic whites, and nearly double Chicago, 860,000.

    Instead, Detroit is not even in the top 100 cities in the USA for white population, and has fewer whites than many of its individual suburbs, like Livonia, Troy, and Royal Oak.

    As for blaming the Jews, it was anti-Semite* Henry Ford, eager importer into Michigan of cheap black southern labor, and the end of the Eastern Euro immigration that he also supported that helped make mid-century Detroit one of the most beautiful and prosperous cities in the world to a bombed out Somalia Inferior.

    *I am allowed to call him an anti-semite without offense here? Was supporting Hitler in the 30's and publishing/subsidizing The International Jew enough to deserve the label?

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Brutusale

    As for blaming the Jews, it was anti-Semite* Henry Ford, eager importer into Michigan of cheap black southern labor, and the end of the Eastern Euro immigration that he also supported that helped make mid-century Detroit one of the most beautiful and prosperous cities in the world to [sic] a bombed out Somalia Inferior.

    Q. How did he import these Black workers?
    A. He didn’t. They came to him, and he hired them, as a good citizenist might.

    Q. How did he help make Detroit into a a bombed-out “Somalia Inferior”?
    A. He didn’t. He didn’t abrogate the right of white people to draw boundaries and exclude those who were incompatible. That was somebody else.

  154. Lot says:
    @AndrewR
    @Lot

    Ah true.

    But the Poles would have left anyway. Why would a fourth or greater generation "Pole", with no real connection to Poland or Polish culture, want to live in a tiny enclave of Detroit?

    Replies: @Lot

    Why would a fourth or greater generation “Pole”, with no real connection to Poland or Polish culture, want to live in a tiny enclave of Detroit?

    Well actually many did want to stay, and stayed quite a while longer than Detroit whites did because they did like living among similar people.

    Another reason is they physical city. 1880-1950 American whites sacrificed to build their cities to last a long time, unlike the cheaper-built post-war suburbs.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Lot

    Lot, and Andrew, I am 70 and my Catholic Boys HS was on the edge of Buffalo's Polonia. Most, if not all of my classmates were second generation Americans, but many of them had thick Polish accents and strange idioms, like "a passel", meaning a lot. and "cough candies" meaning cough drops. I soon discovered that many of them spoke Polish at home and their first gen parents spoke Polish almost exclusively. They had Polish language newspapers and strong social clubs (Am-Pol Eagles) and traditional music and dance programs. They apparently cherished their culture enough to stay as a tight knit community. Some old babushka grandmothers still live in the old neighborhoods that are almost 100% black.

    , @AndrewR
    @Lot

    Well they didn't have to leave. The old people died, there weren't enough young people to buy the homes and other ethnic groups moved in. Or am I mistaken?

  155. @Nick Diaz
    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as "internal" refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.

    I actually agree that it is a bad idea to grant refugee status to people who's lives are threatened because they might have committed crimes in their native countries, but trying to use the internment of Americans as an argument for whether foreign citizens should be granted refugee status or not is retarded.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @ben tillman, @Mr. Anon, @Tex

    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen.

    By definition, a refugee is someone who flees his home out of fear for his safety. The fact that you are used to hearing a word in one context doesn’t mean it isn’t the right word in another context. Steve is right to use this word.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    @ben tillman

    ref·uge
    ˈrefˌyo͞oj,ˈrefˌyo͞oZH/Submit
    noun
    a condition of being safe or sheltered from pursuit, danger, or trouble.


    You can be a refugee in your own home if it is a refuge. No problems with Steve's usage.

    , @iSteveFan
    @ben tillman

    Ben, it's like the use of the word alien. Many on the left don't understand that alien doesn't necessarily mean you are an extraterrestrial.

  156. @ben tillman
    @peterike


    Lol! That BET award speech is one of the silliest things ever. Just nonsense, top to bottom. And it would take ten thousand words to untangle the knots of idiocy binding it all tightly together. Such is the power of mindless cant when backed up by the Narrative.
     
    And amplified by the Megaphone.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    You are right, the Jesse Williams speech has been megaphoned into the article that everyone has to read right now, having firmly supplanted the “You don’t know me, but we’re here today because you were inside me” victim statement in the Stanford sexual assault case. Such Himalayan peaks of SJW rhetoric are usually followed by a long series lesser peaks consisting of online replies written by victims to anonymous individuals who (a) left a nasty note on their vehicle when they parked in a handicapped space, (b) looked at them funny when they went to the restroom, (c) left a snide comment on their check when paying, (d) criticized their child for vomiting in a crowded restaurant, or (e) criticizing them for whaling on their kid for being out of control in public.

    “You have got to read this!”

    The Williams speech is a rehash of well known platitudes. Slavery, extracted labor. Check. Never mind we have spent 50 years attempting to atone for that. But according to Coates, this compensation in one form or another must continue until black performance in all fields is imperceptible from white performance: sort of like the Ramadan of Reparations. Which, if there is even a scintilla of truth to HBD, will continue for centuries.

    The bit about “extracting our culture” is obviously a reference to the fact that black people invented all the good things in American culture, like the Blues, Jazz, R&B, Rap, and twerking. On the other hand I don’t think any white person really complains when Black Persons have previously dabbled in culturally white fields, like film, musicals, symphonies, novels, philosophy, astronomy, physics, engineering, and so on. On the contrary, anytime an African American displays any competency in such fields it is greeted as the greatest thing since — white bread.

    The last two sentences need to be quoted again because in the space of a few lines he references several concepts that require extensive explication in and of themselves (“black gold”, “gentrifying”, “strange fruit”, “magic [negroes]”) but which don’t fit together at all.

    extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because we’re magic doesn’t mean we’re not real.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8

    Good comment, SP.


    The Williams speech is a rehash of well known platitudes. Slavery, extracted labor. Check. Never mind we have spent 50 years attempting to atone for that. [Note: it's not necessarily nice to try to atone for someone's existence.] But according to Coates, this compensation in one form or another must continue until black performance in all fields[*] is imperceptible from white performance: sort of like the Ramadan of Reparations. Which, if there is even a scintilla of truth to HBD, will continue for centuries.

    The bit about “extracting our culture” is obviously a reference to the fact that black people invented all the good things in American culture[**], like the Blues, Jazz, R&B, Rap, and twerking. On the other hand I don’t think any white person really complains when Black Persons have previously dabbled in culturally white fields, like film, musicals, symphonies, novels, philosophy, astronomy, physics, engineering, and so on. On the contrary, anytime an African American displays any competency in such fields it is greeted as the greatest thing since — white bread.
     
    *Except basketball and football.

    **Except basketball and football.
  157. @Steve Sailer
    @Richard of Melbourne

    Somebody should paint a picture of Emma Lazarus carving the Zeroth Amendment to the Bill of Rights onto the Statue of Liberty straight from the mouth of God.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Henry Bowman, @E. Harding, @Eric Novak, @Bill Jones

    Your wish, Steve, is my command:

    https://goo.gl/DQfxMV

  158. Lot says:
    @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    If you want to call For an anti-semite, that's OK, but if one bothers to check the underlying facts, it's a little more complicated. In the first place, I haven' t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the '30's, but I'd be happy to look at it. As for the International Jew, that's a compilation of Op-Eds from the Dearborn Independent, under Ford's name, which he did not write. He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22. Looking at some of the articles, it sounds like Ford (or his ghost, or both) were in the thrall of contemporary attitudes that felt that Mediterraneans and Jews were destroying America, by virtue of Bolshevism and Anarchism, and by a number of cherry picked stories (many related by Jews) about Jews at the time (e.g., Arnold Rothstein fixing the 1919 World Series, etc.)

    I wouldn't want to let Ford off the hook completely, I'm just not sure what is accomplished by calling him an anti-semite. Is it being suggested that if he didn't hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city? Well, I guess we can say then that at least he wasn't a racist. Does that mean that the bad names cancel each other out?

    Replies: @SFG, @Lot, @Flip

    In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30′s, but I’d be happy to look at it.

    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime, including using slave labor, right up until Pearl Harbor. These were weapons, including V2 rockets, that were directly used against our allies France and Britain.

    He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22.

    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits, as well as resentment by dealers.

    Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city?

    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit’s case by Henry Ford more than any other single person, is what causes the demographic decline and collapse of civilizations. And further that the “filling up” of the USA by non-white immigrant labor after 1970 would have been far less extreme if we had accepted more poor European immigrants from 1924 to 1960.

    We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we’d take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime

    So in other words, Ford didn't actually support Hitler, but Ford Germany built trucks and personnel carriers for the Nazi regime until the US entered the war. After the US entered the war, Ford Germany was on its own, and at that point began to use forced labor, and built turbines for V-2's (the first V-2's were from 1944).

    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits

    So, in other words, while Ford strenuously apologized for the articles, beginning in 1927 and continuing to at least WW2, his apologies were insincere. I can buy that. But that just means he was mostly interested in making money, not in hating Jews.

    If the labor demand after WW1 didn't cause the Great Migration the Great Migration would have happened anyway. Lots of black people didn't want to live in the South, and they needed to be employed somehow. Part of the problem today is that, due to our shrinking manufacturing base, many of them are not employed at all, or else are employed in petty bureaucratic jobs that add no value.

    I remember reading a number of French historians (Goubert, etc.) who argued that the industrial revolution in France was fueled above all by the surplus population from the countryside converging on the towns: they provided the labor, and eventually the parishes found atelier/factory type work for them to do. So, in other words, excess labor fueled the process, not excess demand for consumer goods.

    What it really comes down to is that white Americans do not want to do scut work, despite the fact that we all have fathers or uncles or grandparents or granduncles who worked every day for 50 years as a factory worker, stevedore, sheet metal worker, meat packing plant, etc. and we admire them for that self-sacrifice. Everyone wants to work in an office and expend minimal calories generating content for someone else and being highly compensated for doing so. And I can't blame any white person (or any color person) for preferring that kind of gig. But someone has to make $12 an hour gutting steers eight hours a day, and if you won't do it, and I won't do it, some illegal will.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Steve Sailer

    , @ben tillman
    @Lot


    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit’s case by Henry Ford more than any other single person....
     
    Black Americans are not "cheap foreign labor". And Ford did not "demand" them.
    , @Clifford Brown
    @Lot

    Is there any evidence that the German Ford plant was manufacturing weaponry prior to 1939 when Ford had actual control of the operation? The Nazis were extreme economic nationalists who did not take kindly to foreign subsidiaries. The exploitation of slave labor occurred after 1941 when the Nazis were running the factory.

    Replies: @V Vega

    , @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    I forgot to mention: I've known a number of Eastern Slavs many of whom ended up in the US because they were dragooned as forced labor in WW2. Their attitudes about that experience were often counter-intuitive. At any rate, I'd be happy to bring in millions of Ukrainians, because they are nice people and the women are usually very ample and pretty. However, I don't think they'd actually be willing to do stoop labor or work in a slaughterhouse. On the contrary, they'll probably be more like the two adventuresses from Voronezh who were deeply enmeshed in the San Berdoo terrorist attack. So, no thanks.

    Replies: @Perspective

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Lot

    "We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we’d take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate."

    We have an opportunity now to not take in anyone, be they Ukrainian, Salvadoran, or other. Why must we bring in anyone?

  159. @SFG
    @Anonymous Nephew

    British Jews are somewhat more conservative, ironically; they're worried about Muslim immigrants and don't have the strong attachment to Labour American Jews have to the Democratic party. Plus I guess one of the most famous Tories being of Jewish ancestry's got to help a little.

    I don't know enough about Sikhs to comment.

    Replies: @biz, @V Vega

    Sikhs also have a long history of being oppressed by Muslims. The founder of Sikhism was tortured to death by Muslims and they pretty much kept up with it until the British took over.

  160. @Jim Don Bob
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Michael Mann also directed To Live and Die in L.A.

    Carl Cody: "And the check is in the mail, and I love you, and I promise not to come in your mouth... "

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090180/quotes

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Clifford Brown

    This is a different Michael Mann than the Hollywood director.

  161. Lot says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Jimi

    I suspect there was a vague Anglo / Protestant versus non-Anglo / Catholic divide: British-descended people tended to take off for the crabgrass frontier at the first sign of trouble -- settling new land is what they do -- while Catholics tended to hunker down more in their neighborhoods and try to hold on. WASPs tended to own most of the suburban and exurban land that could be developed, but needed to sell it to the Catholic urban masses. So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.

    Replies: @WowJustWow, @SFG, @Lot, @Dave Pinsen

    So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.

    There are about a dozen families here in San Diego whose ancestors had the good luck to set up quarries and dairy farms along the San Diego river, which was swampy, smelled bad, and flooded a lot, but became extremely valuable after WWII when it was drained and the city’s population rapidly grew. The area is now called Mission Valley, and there are places that were farms in 1960 that are now worth $50+ million.

  162. @Arclight
    The Atlantic had an article maybe 10 years ago by Hanna Rosin on how the decision to de-concentrate poverty by demolishing a lot of public housing and giving residents Section 8 vouchers didn't actually reduce overall crime but just spread it around.

    Today HUD is pursuing enhanced vouchers so that holders aren't hemmed in by the 'fair market rents' to which they are pegged and which are usually enough to pay for an apartment in lower middle class neighborhoods, but can instead afford to live in upper middle class neighborhood and suburbs. Coupled with the affirmatively furthering fair housing abomination, it seems that our betters are determined to ensure no one can get away from the least desirable elements of society.

    So what's next for stable middle and upper middle class communities that can look forward to an injection of vibrant diversity courtesy of HUD?

    Replies: @Henry Bowman

    I hear Trump will do away with section 8 as we know it, maybe all together, another reason to vote for him.

    The rich will turn on the left and the Diversity as a whole the moment it cost them.

  163. @Lot
    @AndrewR


    Why would a fourth or greater generation “Pole”, with no real connection to Poland or Polish culture, want to live in a tiny enclave of Detroit?
     
    Well actually many did want to stay, and stayed quite a while longer than Detroit whites did because they did like living among similar people.

    Another reason is they physical city. 1880-1950 American whites sacrificed to build their cities to last a long time, unlike the cheaper-built post-war suburbs.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @AndrewR

    Lot, and Andrew, I am 70 and my Catholic Boys HS was on the edge of Buffalo’s Polonia. Most, if not all of my classmates were second generation Americans, but many of them had thick Polish accents and strange idioms, like “a passel”, meaning a lot. and “cough candies” meaning cough drops. I soon discovered that many of them spoke Polish at home and their first gen parents spoke Polish almost exclusively. They had Polish language newspapers and strong social clubs (Am-Pol Eagles) and traditional music and dance programs. They apparently cherished their culture enough to stay as a tight knit community. Some old babushka grandmothers still live in the old neighborhoods that are almost 100% black.

  164. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Gato de la Biblioteca


    make escape plans for your children’s sake, though God knows where you’d go
     
    Exactly, go where? Or, instead of escape, how about we cowboy up and retake America? If the Brits can defy "the good and the great," why can't we?

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Or, instead of escape, how about we cowboy up and retake America? If the Brits can defy “the good and the great,” why can’t we?

    America is much farther down the road than the UK. We have much higher minority populations, both foreign and domestic, and more rush in every day. And almost EVERY GODDAMNED ONE of our pols wants even more, works hard every business day to achieve it, and they’ve been winning for the last 51 years. They won the first several decades of battles without anyone even noticing there was a war on. Some do it for the financial gain of their backers, and some for the political gain of their party. I don’t believe a goddamned one of them is sincere.

    It’s too late to win at the ballot box. Even if Trump wins, and tries to do the things he has said he’ll do, he’ll face a Senate that is over 95% hostile to his stated goals, and a House that will be over 90% hostile. No party, no accomplishments, and Trump will have no party. I think three candidates of Congress have now been primaried out in the 24 or 25 states that have had primaries?

    And if Trump loses? Paul Ryan and whatever is left of the Republicans will say, “We lost because we didn’t embrace making America Third World Again enough!”

    It’s over. Whites can get organized for the interests of themselves as a whole anymore (if they ever could) because a good deal, no, make that virtually 100%, of the top has sold out, a good deal of the middle has been bullied into believing whatever bullshit gets spouted, and the bottom never really accomplishes much without guidance from above.

    So, you can’t win by elections, because you can’t even get your candidates on the fucking ballots in November.

    That leaves violence. Who you planning to shoot? Are you going to be part of the forlorn hope that gets the revolution started? Knowing full well that most forlorn hopes trying to start revolutions end up getting their asses slaughtered and no revolution ever comes of it?

    Nope. It’s done. If you want to fight, God (or Fortune, or the old pagan gods of your ancestors, or the Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster) bless you. But too many of us are spent. We’ve got nothing left.

  165. @Lot
    @SPMoore8


    In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30′s, but I’d be happy to look at it.
     
    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime, including using slave labor, right up until Pearl Harbor. These were weapons, including V2 rockets, that were directly used against our allies France and Britain.

    He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22.
     
    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits, as well as resentment by dealers.

    Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city?
     
    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit's case by Henry Ford more than any other single person, is what causes the demographic decline and collapse of civilizations. And further that the "filling up" of the USA by non-white immigrant labor after 1970 would have been far less extreme if we had accepted more poor European immigrants from 1924 to 1960.

    We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we'd take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Clifford Brown, @SPMoore8, @Mr. Anon

    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime

    So in other words, Ford didn’t actually support Hitler, but Ford Germany built trucks and personnel carriers for the Nazi regime until the US entered the war. After the US entered the war, Ford Germany was on its own, and at that point began to use forced labor, and built turbines for V-2’s (the first V-2’s were from 1944).

    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits

    So, in other words, while Ford strenuously apologized for the articles, beginning in 1927 and continuing to at least WW2, his apologies were insincere. I can buy that. But that just means he was mostly interested in making money, not in hating Jews.

    If the labor demand after WW1 didn’t cause the Great Migration the Great Migration would have happened anyway. Lots of black people didn’t want to live in the South, and they needed to be employed somehow. Part of the problem today is that, due to our shrinking manufacturing base, many of them are not employed at all, or else are employed in petty bureaucratic jobs that add no value.

    I remember reading a number of French historians (Goubert, etc.) who argued that the industrial revolution in France was fueled above all by the surplus population from the countryside converging on the towns: they provided the labor, and eventually the parishes found atelier/factory type work for them to do. So, in other words, excess labor fueled the process, not excess demand for consumer goods.

    What it really comes down to is that white Americans do not want to do scut work, despite the fact that we all have fathers or uncles or grandparents or granduncles who worked every day for 50 years as a factory worker, stevedore, sheet metal worker, meat packing plant, etc. and we admire them for that self-sacrifice. Everyone wants to work in an office and expend minimal calories generating content for someone else and being highly compensated for doing so. And I can’t blame any white person (or any color person) for preferring that kind of gig. But someone has to make $12 an hour gutting steers eight hours a day, and if you won’t do it, and I won’t do it, some illegal will.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @SPMoore8


    "someone has to make $12 an hour gutting steers eight hours a day"
     
    Really? Why can't they make $20/hour or more? After all, it may be unpleasant, but it takes skill to do well, like, say, plumbing, which pays $40 - $60 an hour.

    "and if you won’t do it, and I won’t do it, some illegal will."
     
    As it happens, I know quite a few slaughterhouse workers across several states. They are nearly 100% blue collar whites from families whose names go back to colonial times. They earn $15 to $30 an hour and live okay but not great.

    Clearly, old-stock American citizens will do this kind of work. They just won't do it in the low-wage, low-quality, low-safety environments that the illegal-fueled mega-meat processors prefer.

    The problem is not American unwillingness to do unpleasant or difficult work. The problem is the ready availability of a low-wage, low-quality, low-risk-aversion work force: a work force that drives down wages even for those who don't participate in it.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @Steve Sailer
    @SPMoore8

    Ford also agreed to build a car plant in Stalin's Soviet Union in 1929.

  166. @SFG
    @Hiram Abiff

    Bizarrely, I get it. Black people come up with rhythm and blues, and white people turn it into rock and roll and get rich.

    Now of course there's rap, where black people are still in charge, and surprise, surprise...the rappers blow it all on bling. And black people are still poor.

    The explanation's obvious, but it's kind of hard to admit to yourself. Most people don't even want to admit they're too lazy, disorganized, ugly, fat, old, or what have you to get the job or girl/boy they want. Can you imagine accepting that *your entire extended family and everyone who looks like you* is never going to be equal with the rest of society? Forget bitter, it's a 0.1 M solution of sodium hydroxide.

    Hell, it took me ages to accept what all the lefty Jews in the media/academia/etc. were up to as a group (this *specifically excludes* all you commenters, you know that), and I don't even know any of them personally or have any real connection to the religion except for lighting a few candles and getting a second set of presents growing up. My mom is a nice old lady (but hey, I would say that, she's my mom) who agrees with me on illegal immigration and is thinking about voting for Trump.

    Replies: @Kylie

    You think blacks and you [non-observant] Jews have it bad?

    I’m a white middle-class woman. You know, one of the group Whiskey is always railing against.* I’m expected to have drunk, wallowed in and douched with the Kool-Aid all the other white middle-class women have used. And when they realize I haven’t, they turn on me. No solidarity or sororal loyalty for me. And frankly, that’s a two-way street. I feel nothing but contempt and hostility toward them.

    I’ve always loved being female, never wanted to be anything else. But when I read about and listen to the sheer idiocy and lunacy most of that group spews, I don’t even think of myself as a woman in the same sense that they are women.

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @Kylie

    Hello Kylie,

    Are you single? Any interest in a SWM, 38, hwp? Have income and loyalty, will trave. A woman like you is a unicorn to red-blooded men not in the puerile PUA camp.....

    Replies: @Kylie

    , @iSteveFan
    @Kylie


    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.
     
    Oh no. Don't tell him that.
    , @Ace
    @Kylie

    It's the same with a lot of middle class men I know. I understand differences of opinion but many of their minds are just walled off. I once was chatting with a very decent but very liberal friend of mine about what we might do to get out of the wage squirrel cage. Before long he'd turned the conversation into the evils of corporations. I point out the shift in topic but it was a waste of time to pursue.

    Not sure if this is quite what you were discussing but few are the men I've known who considered military service even as a short-term option and the women were all fixated on abortion as a sacrament. In my opinion a normal man should be absolutely furious at the wide open border and cheapening of citizenship but I can count on only one had those who are. Who are these people?

    Replies: @Kylie

    , @Mark2
    @Kylie

    Not surprising. Most men have an intractable, inborn protective filter of delusion about women.

    , @Monopthalmus
    @Kylie

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Okay, Whiskey...

  167. @SFG
    @ben tillman

    What part of the country? I get the sense a lot of Southern and Midwestern college towns are mostly into football and so on and might be mildly less conservative than the surrounding area but not by a huge degree.

    Now if it's a *famous* college town like Madison, Bloomington, Iowa City, Moscow, or Chapel Hill, that's a different story.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    What part of the country? I get the sense a lot of Southern and Midwestern college towns are mostly into football and so on and might be mildly less conservative than the surrounding area but not by a huge degree.

    I agree that college towns are generally less conservative than the surrounding areas, but it’s this “overcompensation” thing (again, compensation for what?) — apparently meaning that the kids in town go even further to the left — that seems bogus to me.

  168. – Jews voted for Brexit more than any other demographic other than White English. And much more than Scots and Irish Catholics and probably a little more than Welsh and Irish Protestant. If you adjust for income and education, Jews voted for Brexit more than even more than their well-educated, urban, and higher income white English neighbors.

    Too bad we can’t swap our Jewish population for Britain’s.

    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.

    That would explain the otherwise inexplicable fact that Unz publishes his nuttery. But I hope not.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Svigor


    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.
     
    Ha, ha---I'm afraid not... And as only the most dim-witted commenters haven't already realized, I don't necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely "conspiracy theories" fall into that category...

    However, I'll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I'm pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    Frankly, I don't know the truth of these conspiracy matters. I've been busy with other things and have never really investigated them. But the questions raised seem like interesting and important ones to me, and I think it might be nice if other people did bother looking into them more carefully, which is more likely to happen if they're conveniently available on my webzine.

    Now admittedly, there's a sharp division of opinion on my decision. On the one hand, various anonymous racialist commenters are clearly concerned that their endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer "guilt by association" by sharing a website with this other material. And on the other hand, there's that elite establishment friend of mine, whose own boldface friends are regularly quoted on the front page of the NYT/WSJ and who has a very different perspective.

    So whose judgment on these publication matters should I regard as carrying more weight? Such a difficult choice...

    Replies: @Lot, @Nico, @biz, @iffen, @Hepp

  169. @Hiram Abiff
    @Dirk Dagger


    We’ve been floating this country on credit for centuries, and we’re done watching and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us, burying black people out of sight out of mind while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit.
     
    This "plunder" concept, popularized by Teh Genius Coates, is so risible. Okay, white people will stop using what we've "appropriated" from blacks: the music, dance, speech patterns and fashion associated with hip-hop culture (or, "culture"). In return, blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc.

    I have no idea how America would retain a first world standard of living without its massive looting of the black bodies of criminals, welfare recipients and/or single mothers.

    (Incidentally that gives me the idea: has anyone thought to satirize TNC's concept of "plunder" after a Black Lives Matter riot?)

    Replies: @SFG, @Zach

    “…blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc. ”

    And the English Language.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Zach

    “…blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc. ”

    And the English Language."

    And the internet.

  170. @Lurker
    Just as with the 'refugees' coming into Europe to 'flee violence' , these stories neglect to explain what measures are being used to sort the victims from the violent. Obviously we're supposed to believe that Magic Dirt allows the saintly victims over the border but always repels their oppressors.

    Replies: @Henry Bowman

    Obviously we’re supposed to believe that Magic Dirt allows the saintly victims over the border but always repels their oppressors.

    Of course ITS MAGIC DIRT!

  171. @Lot
    @SPMoore8


    In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30′s, but I’d be happy to look at it.
     
    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime, including using slave labor, right up until Pearl Harbor. These were weapons, including V2 rockets, that were directly used against our allies France and Britain.

    He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22.
     
    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits, as well as resentment by dealers.

    Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city?
     
    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit's case by Henry Ford more than any other single person, is what causes the demographic decline and collapse of civilizations. And further that the "filling up" of the USA by non-white immigrant labor after 1970 would have been far less extreme if we had accepted more poor European immigrants from 1924 to 1960.

    We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we'd take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Clifford Brown, @SPMoore8, @Mr. Anon

    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit’s case by Henry Ford more than any other single person….

    Black Americans are not “cheap foreign labor”. And Ford did not “demand” them.

  172. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Those kindly humanitarians at the WaPo are concerned, nay, troubled:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/26/the-startling-human-toll-of-brexit/

  173. @Lot
    @SPMoore8


    In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30′s, but I’d be happy to look at it.
     
    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime, including using slave labor, right up until Pearl Harbor. These were weapons, including V2 rockets, that were directly used against our allies France and Britain.

    He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22.
     
    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits, as well as resentment by dealers.

    Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city?
     
    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit's case by Henry Ford more than any other single person, is what causes the demographic decline and collapse of civilizations. And further that the "filling up" of the USA by non-white immigrant labor after 1970 would have been far less extreme if we had accepted more poor European immigrants from 1924 to 1960.

    We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we'd take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Clifford Brown, @SPMoore8, @Mr. Anon

    Is there any evidence that the German Ford plant was manufacturing weaponry prior to 1939 when Ford had actual control of the operation? The Nazis were extreme economic nationalists who did not take kindly to foreign subsidiaries. The exploitation of slave labor occurred after 1941 when the Nazis were running the factory.

    • Replies: @V Vega
    @Clifford Brown


    Is there any evidence that the German Ford plant was manufacturing weaponry prior to 1939 when Ford had actual control of the operation? The Nazis were extreme economic nationalists who did not take kindly to foreign subsidiaries. The exploitation of slave labor occurred after 1941 when the Nazis were running the factory.
     
    Do you ever consider consulting Google for the answer to your queries, instead of asking it here, as if not asking meant you'd have to shlep to the library? There's tons of info you can get on Henry Ford in about two seconds, yet you choose to ask the question here, and wait for the answer like a mental patient.

    Additionally, Jews were the most despised race around the world at that time. Ford being antisemetic was no big deal back then. That is, he did not stand out from the crowd. He would be one of millions.

    Replies: @Clifford Brown

  174. @ben tillman
    @Nick Diaz


    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen.
     
    By definition, a refugee is someone who flees his home out of fear for his safety. The fact that you are used to hearing a word in one context doesn't mean it isn't the right word in another context. Steve is right to use this word.

    Replies: @Hacienda, @iSteveFan

    ref·uge
    ˈrefˌyo͞oj,ˈrefˌyo͞oZH/Submit
    noun
    a condition of being safe or sheltered from pursuit, danger, or trouble.

    You can be a refugee in your own home if it is a refuge. No problems with Steve’s usage.

  175. @Lot
    @SPMoore8


    In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30′s, but I’d be happy to look at it.
     
    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime, including using slave labor, right up until Pearl Harbor. These were weapons, including V2 rockets, that were directly used against our allies France and Britain.

    He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22.
     
    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits, as well as resentment by dealers.

    Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city?
     
    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit's case by Henry Ford more than any other single person, is what causes the demographic decline and collapse of civilizations. And further that the "filling up" of the USA by non-white immigrant labor after 1970 would have been far less extreme if we had accepted more poor European immigrants from 1924 to 1960.

    We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we'd take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Clifford Brown, @SPMoore8, @Mr. Anon

    I forgot to mention: I’ve known a number of Eastern Slavs many of whom ended up in the US because they were dragooned as forced labor in WW2. Their attitudes about that experience were often counter-intuitive. At any rate, I’d be happy to bring in millions of Ukrainians, because they are nice people and the women are usually very ample and pretty. However, I don’t think they’d actually be willing to do stoop labor or work in a slaughterhouse. On the contrary, they’ll probably be more like the two adventuresses from Voronezh who were deeply enmeshed in the San Berdoo terrorist attack. So, no thanks.

    • Replies: @Perspective
    @SPMoore8

    "On the contrary, they’ll probably be more like the two adventuresses from Voronezh who were deeply enmeshed in the San Berdoo terrorist attack. So, no thanks."

    It depends on how rigorous the filter is for new immigrants. It would be pointless to bring in Ukrainians for stoop labour when machines can mostly do the same thing now. Canada and the US could probably bring in 200k Ukrainians (skilled workers) each year for the next 5-8 years or so without breaking a sweat. White America could use a little demographic reinforcement.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  176. So, you can’t win by elections, because you can’t even get your candidates on the fucking ballots in November.

    That leaves violence. Who you planning to shoot? Are you going to be part of the forlorn hope that gets the revolution started? Knowing full well that most forlorn hopes trying to start revolutions end up getting their asses slaughtered and no revolution ever comes of it?

    You suffer from a failure of imagination. There’s a hell of a lot of room between voting and shooting. What would DC do in the face of a broad tax revolt from whites? Broad labor revolts? Millions encamped around the Beltway?

    Cave. Fold like a cheap suit.

    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Svigor

    What would DC do in the face of a broad tax revolt from whites?

    "Print" more money, at first. Start arresting people and making examples of them second. The tax revolt thing has been tried by some fringe types. You'd have to overcome looking like a lunatic to get people to buy into it. And then you'd need to get millions and millions to have an impact.

    Except, that won't work, because they'll just garnish wages from the employers of the millions and millions. Milton Friedman set up the apparatus to defeat you back in WWII.

    Broad labor revolts?

    Yes, you can revolt - except that then you'll be replaced by an illegal, or an H-1B, or a robot, to name three of the many possibilities. And how are you going to organize the labor revolts? You won't get the media to publicize what you're doing, FB and Twitter and Google will likely shut down attempts to organize anything that will cut into THEIR labor, etc. And the unions? Sheeit....

    Millions encamped around the Beltway?

    No you're getting somewhere! So, who wants to go camping around DC in summer? Or better still in winter? Who wants to stay there long enough to have an impact?

    And honestly, if that many white people show up, you can be goddamned sure the army (or the Social Security Administration) will be called in to start shooting people, as you'll all be classified as hate group members deserving of death. Honestly, do you think Obama or Hillary or El jeffe Jeb or Ryan or McConnell or Reid or Pelosi would care if they could exterminate a few million pesky white people at one go? Hell, the goddamn media would come out and declare the people ordering the massacres the Greatest Americans of All Time if they did that, and they wouldn't even have to have their corporate masters kick their asses to do it that time, they'd do it out of the ecstasy they'd feel.

    And, oh by the way, that gets back to violence anyway.

    ...

    Look, we've been outmaneuvered on all fronts, and it happened a long time ago. They control the government, both parties, the media, the financial institutions, the schools & universities, and pretty much anything else you can think of. These were long-term low-key threats that people have only just started waking up to.

    And now that people have woken up to it, who's the best they can come up with to fight for their cause? Donald Fucking Trump. He's done a masterful job of getting himself this far, but (a) do you really trust him, (b) do you really think he can get the job done, and (c) who is going to help him get the job done that isn't really on the payroll of the people that got us into this mess?

    ...

    As for a billion dollars ... didn't Obama spend more than that in 2008? The other side controls pretty much all the big money out there, plus they own the media, plus they own the schools, plus they've been conditioning people to just smile and fucking take it for decades. As I said in my earlier comment, an Afghan jihadi kills a bunch of Hispanic gays, and white Republican men get blamed in all the PRIDE parades. How are you going to overcome that kind of conditioning? How are you going to overcome that kind of reckless, arrogant stupidity? It's only gotten worse since 9/11, and even then we had to swallow a bunch of "Islam is the religion of peace" bullshit from our allegedly gung-ho President.

    Seriously, if you've got the means, try and immigrate someplace where they might hold the line, Denmark, or where ever. The American Dream of my forefathers is already dead. The body is just thrashing around now in protest against the inevitable.

    Replies: @Lurker

  177. @SFG
    @Anonymous Nephew

    British Jews are somewhat more conservative, ironically; they're worried about Muslim immigrants and don't have the strong attachment to Labour American Jews have to the Democratic party. Plus I guess one of the most famous Tories being of Jewish ancestry's got to help a little.

    I don't know enough about Sikhs to comment.

    Replies: @biz, @V Vega

    I don’t know enough about Sikhs to comment.

    The short story is they’ve kicked Muslim ass throughout their history. The way they do it ain’t pretty.

    Sikhs dont play games with Muslims. That’s why Muslims try to avoid conflict with them.

  178. @SPMoore8
    @ben tillman

    You are right, the Jesse Williams speech has been megaphoned into the article that everyone has to read right now, having firmly supplanted the "You don't know me, but we're here today because you were inside me" victim statement in the Stanford sexual assault case. Such Himalayan peaks of SJW rhetoric are usually followed by a long series lesser peaks consisting of online replies written by victims to anonymous individuals who (a) left a nasty note on their vehicle when they parked in a handicapped space, (b) looked at them funny when they went to the restroom, (c) left a snide comment on their check when paying, (d) criticized their child for vomiting in a crowded restaurant, or (e) criticizing them for whaling on their kid for being out of control in public.

    "You have got to read this!"

    The Williams speech is a rehash of well known platitudes. Slavery, extracted labor. Check. Never mind we have spent 50 years attempting to atone for that. But according to Coates, this compensation in one form or another must continue until black performance in all fields is imperceptible from white performance: sort of like the Ramadan of Reparations. Which, if there is even a scintilla of truth to HBD, will continue for centuries.

    The bit about "extracting our culture" is obviously a reference to the fact that black people invented all the good things in American culture, like the Blues, Jazz, R&B, Rap, and twerking. On the other hand I don't think any white person really complains when Black Persons have previously dabbled in culturally white fields, like film, musicals, symphonies, novels, philosophy, astronomy, physics, engineering, and so on. On the contrary, anytime an African American displays any competency in such fields it is greeted as the greatest thing since -- white bread.

    The last two sentences need to be quoted again because in the space of a few lines he references several concepts that require extensive explication in and of themselves ("black gold", "gentrifying", "strange fruit", "magic [negroes]") but which don't fit together at all.


    extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil, like black gold, ghettoizing and demeaning our creations and stealing them, gentrifying our genius and trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, just because we’re magic doesn’t mean we're not real.
     

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Good comment, SP.

    The Williams speech is a rehash of well known platitudes. Slavery, extracted labor. Check. Never mind we have spent 50 years attempting to atone for that. [Note: it’s not necessarily nice to try to atone for someone’s existence.] But according to Coates, this compensation in one form or another must continue until black performance in all fields[*] is imperceptible from white performance: sort of like the Ramadan of Reparations. Which, if there is even a scintilla of truth to HBD, will continue for centuries.

    The bit about “extracting our culture” is obviously a reference to the fact that black people invented all the good things in American culture[**], like the Blues, Jazz, R&B, Rap, and twerking. On the other hand I don’t think any white person really complains when Black Persons have previously dabbled in culturally white fields, like film, musicals, symphonies, novels, philosophy, astronomy, physics, engineering, and so on. On the contrary, anytime an African American displays any competency in such fields it is greeted as the greatest thing since — white bread.

    *Except basketball and football.

    **Except basketball and football.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  179. White Americans aren’t even angry enough to really try to buy politics yet. 1k every 4 years from 1m voters = $1 billion war chest to buy presidency.

  180. @Svigor
    Drudge Headline ATM:

    Family Furious After Video Of Woman Stabbed To Death On Chicago Subway Goes Viral...

    'Everybody Taking Pictures, Videos, Didn't Try To Help Her'...
     
    What'd they expect? This is what people sign on to when they live in Illinois in general, and Chicago in particular; no right to self-defense. Why should slave-like residents in such a place stick their (disarmed) necks out for other slave-like residents?

    In America, it's much likelier a Good Samaritan blows the violent criminal's head off, because 1) he can carry a firearm and 2) he is reasonably assured he won't be locked up by a slaveholder gov't.

    Replies: @Eric Novak

    Illinois’ concealed carry law went into effect in Feb. 2014. I should know since a concealed carry class I took in in Chicago and taught by a Chicago cop would be fairly good indicators that Illinois does in fact have a concealed carry law on the books. Those two facts all but rule out mushroom-induced hallucinations and advanced virtual reality technology put on me after a night of binge drinking with wacky friends.

  181. Not just Americans. You can add millions of Canadians, Britons, Australians and others who have had their countries “enriched” by immigrant diversity to the list.

  182. @Jimi
    Interesting post. This would also challenges the dominant view of postwar history, that white American eagerly deserted the cities to live in new, spacious suburbs to fulfill the American dream.

    Perhaps white Americans were pushed out of the cities and now with low crime levels, are going back to the cities they love. The 1960s-1990s were just a pause in the longterm urbanization of America.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    The carrot of cheap, subsidized mortgages and the stick of importing sharecroppers in order to break up the ethnic Catholic urban neighborhoods of Northern cities was well explored in “The Slaughter of Cities: Uban Renewal as Ethnic Cleansing”

  183. @Clifford Brown
    @Lot

    Is there any evidence that the German Ford plant was manufacturing weaponry prior to 1939 when Ford had actual control of the operation? The Nazis were extreme economic nationalists who did not take kindly to foreign subsidiaries. The exploitation of slave labor occurred after 1941 when the Nazis were running the factory.

    Replies: @V Vega

    Is there any evidence that the German Ford plant was manufacturing weaponry prior to 1939 when Ford had actual control of the operation? The Nazis were extreme economic nationalists who did not take kindly to foreign subsidiaries. The exploitation of slave labor occurred after 1941 when the Nazis were running the factory.

    Do you ever consider consulting Google for the answer to your queries, instead of asking it here, as if not asking meant you’d have to shlep to the library? There’s tons of info you can get on Henry Ford in about two seconds, yet you choose to ask the question here, and wait for the answer like a mental patient.

    Additionally, Jews were the most despised race around the world at that time. Ford being antisemetic was no big deal back then. That is, he did not stand out from the crowd. He would be one of millions.

    • Replies: @Clifford Brown
    @V Vega

    I noticed you did not answer my question. The best I can determine is that prior to the Nazi takeover of the factory, the Ford plant manufactured 1000 trucks and engine parts for the German military, but not specifically any weaponry.

    Replies: @Lurker

  184. @Zach
    Off topic: African migrants giving up on the Chinese Dream

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/asia/africans-leaving-guangzhou-china/index.html

    The type of Africans who migrated to China, however, were different to those moving West, Roberto Castillo, a lecturer in African Studies at Hong Kong University, tells CNN.

    "Those people [going to Europe] are usually disenfranchised, with no opportunities, looking to settle," he says. "Africans in China are much more entrepreneurial. Many of them have the financial capability to move around and explore new places."

    Indeed, 40% of African migrants surveyed for "Africans in China" had received at least tertiary education. Some held a PhD.

    Replies: @Salger, @anon

    The Chinese are not a bunch of saps like the western countries are. They don’t feel any need to let the dregs of Africa into their lands unlike Europe. You had probably BETTER have a PHD if you are an African and want to go there.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @anon

    Anon, China has it's eyes on Africa, but not its populace. Africa is land rich and mineral rich if you have the technology and money to mine and farm. Saw a documentary about Chinese development in an African country, move in, move people out and fence. China sends a lot of students to the US for their doctorates, a walk around the University at Buffalo campus will show you that. My opinion, they covet the land mass, have no need for the people.

  185. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Why have the white British left London?"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

    "Something quite remarkable happened in London in the first decade of the new millennium. The number of white British people in the capital fell by 620,000 - equivalent to the entire population of Glasgow moving out."

    Replies: @anon, @carol, @Wilkey, @celt darnell, @anon

    “Left”? They were ethnically cleansed.

  186. @Clifford Brown
    I can one up you on this front. If a high homicide rate is a just cause for refugee status, as Liberals like Kristof espouse, and furthermore, if refugees must be granted sanctuary in safer countries without any consideration as to the impact the refugees would have on the country in which they are seeking asylum, as Liberals like Kristof espouse, then, the residents of Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit and New Orleans (all cities with homicide rates much higher than Guatemala) should be guaranteed asylum status in safer countries, such as Canada or Germany.

    How would Canada react if the US, like Mexico does, orchestrated to send its underclass North of the Border?

    Sadder question, how many of these Guatemala crime refugees are settled by the US government in American cities with homicide rates even higher than the hellish circumstances that they are allegedly fleeing? I am willing to bet quite a few.

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    Oh man, to set up a refugee resettlement program from the ghetto to Canada… That would be the greatest prank ever

  187. @dsgntd_plyr
    steve,

    100% off-topic but maybe the philippines' new president is a reader. he's urging filipinos to have fewer children: "three's enough" http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/threes-enough-rodrigo-duterte-wants-hard-push-for-birth-control-even-if-it-means-clash-with-catholic-church

    he's also described as trump-like for his hilarious statements.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    The fertility rate in the Philippines is already 3.08.

  188. @Erik Sieven
    @anon

    mass immigration is bad but wwII was worse

    Replies: @SFG, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad

    Arguably, the outcome of WWII–the victory of Communism over nationalism–led to mass immigration.

  189. @Old fogey
    @TheJester

    Unlike you, I did not vote for Obama and was one of those questioning his eligibility for the post of president since he was not a natural-born American (his father was not a citizen at any time). And I still blame the media for their utter failure of following up on the logical questions that were raised during his candidacy about his eligibility. McCain, you will recall, had to pass a review to examine whether his birth in the Panama Canal Zone while his father was serving there passed the "natural-born citizen" qualification noted in the Constitution.

    However, after Obama was elected and when the election results showed that a majority of whites had voted for him, I expected that the first thing he would do would be to announce that his election showed that it was no longer necessary or advisable for affirmative action policies of any kind. Unfortunately, he did not do this - on the contrary, he carefully played the race card at every opportunity, making the country far more racist now than it was at the time of his election. What a wasted opportunity.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @ChaseBizzy

    However, after Obama was elected and when the election results showed that a majority of whites had voted for him, I expected that the first thing he would do would be to announce that his election showed that it was no longer necessary or advisable for affirmative action policies of any kind.

    Really? I wouldn’t have expected that in a million years.

    I didn’t vote for Obama, either. I was not in the least surprised when he turned out to be the Chicago-style race-baiting politician that we now know him to be. The “Obama is a Lincoln-esque uniter and a postracial healer” bullshit stunk to high heaven even before the election.

    I realized a long time ago that the white-guilt BS is a religious phenomenon. Obama did not create it, but he sure as hell profited from it. (Obama, like Bush before him, is the symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.) For good-thinking whites, endless displays of masochistic self-abasement are the only way to prove their piety.

    I’m a cynical guy. I believe that no one, not even Donald Trump, seeks power for any other reason than to have power.

    But not everyone wants to have power for the same reason.

    As much as I like Trump – and, whatever happens, I will always admire him for singlehandedly taking on the liars in the rotten, corrupt political and media establishment – I believe that, ultimately, he is driven by his ego.

    All politicians are ego-driven, of course, but Trump’s egotism is purer. Ironically, it’s untainted by the simple greed that prompts so many of our so-called leaders to bend over for the rich and the powerful. Trump is many things, but he’s not a whore.

    (The Clintons, on the other hand, have always been whores, and they always will be.)

    He wants the ego rush that comes with being the most powerful man in the world, yes, but he also wants to go down in history as the man who made America great again. He wants the name Trump, already plastered on so many of his buildings, to echo through the ages. He hopes that, 200 years from now, schoolchildren will learn about President Trump as they now learn about Presidents Washington and Lincoln.

    Seventeen years ago, when Trump first started talking seriously about running for president, he said nothing about immigration, but a lot about “spirit”:

    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/10/08/trump.transcript/

    Plus, I think there’s a great lack of spirit in this country. You know, what happened over the last four years is disgusting, and I just think there’s a tremendous lack of spirit, and I think the spirit has to be brought back.

    […]

    I mean, Ronald Reagan, to me, was a great president. And, whether you are liberal or you’re conservative, people really view him as a great president. He’ll go down as a great president and not so much for the things he did, it’s just, there was a demeanor to him and a spirit that the country had under Ronald Reagan that was really phenomenal. And, you know, there was just a style and a class, and that a big part of the president, I mean, that’s a really big part of being president. Ronald Reagan had it.

    Eisenhower, now Eisenhower — I don’t see him too much on lists of great, great presidents — but there was a nice time in the country, the country had a prestige and he had a certain, you know, demeanor. He was a quality, class act. There are certain people that have that.

    He wants to make people feel good about America again, so they can feel good about the man who made them feel good. He wants to be the hero, the savior, the prophet leading us to the promised land. If he can do that, then he can legitimize his fame and make himself immortal, to boot.

    He understands that immivasion is the driving force behind this country’s malaise, and that if something is not done soon, we will never again be able to recreate anything resembling the conditions that allowed the America of his youth to prosper.

    Eisenhower was president in Trump’s childhood and early teenage years – he was six when Ike took office and fourteen when JFK took over. Reagan was president in Trump’s youthful prime – the ’80s were his glory years, when he was the biggest clown at the carnival. Ike and Ronnie both presided over epochs when America not only prospered but believed in itself. It’s not surprising that he’d want to follow in their footsteps.

    (Reagan was something of a backstabber when it came to conservatives – he gave us amnesty, for one. But he bankrupted the Soviets, putting an end to the Cold War, and he made people believe that it was morning again in God’s shining city on the hill.)

    Trump may or may not meet the traditional standards of “presidential material,” but he pisses off a lot of people who I hate, people who are actively trying to destroy America, people who are working overtime to flush this country down the toilet. That, alone, is reason enough for me to vote for him. I feel a lot more enthusiastic voting for him than I ever would have felt about voting for, say, Jeb Bush.

    And if he stabs us in the back? Well … that’s what Republicans have been doing to their base for many years. At least he’ll have given us a hell of a show.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Stan Adams

    Also, let me clarify the difference between ego and greed:

    Greed is the lust for money and the things that money can buy. Ego is one's perception of oneself. They feed each other - one craves money to buy the things that one believes will improve the world's perception of oneself, thus enabling one to improve one's perception of oneself.

    The other day I read about a Hollywood movie producer who hired a helicopter to ferry him to his twenty-year high-school reunion*. He brought along two buxom blondes - one for each arm. This was his way of proving to the kids who had snubbed him that he was now the bigshot and they were the nobodies.

    Trump has always been driven by his need for attention. Having money is a means of getting attention. But he has reached the absolute limit of the attention that having money can get him. If he wants more attention, or another kind of attention, then he must find it in some other way than having money.

    And that some other way is running for president as "the man who will make America great again."

    It's an ego trip for him. For the rest of us, it is, if nothing else, an interesting ride.

    The great thing is that he might actually do it. He might actually make America great again. Wouldn't that be something?

    [digression]

    *That, to me, seems a colossal waste of money. I, too, was at the bottom of the totem pole in high school, but I didn't care what the other kids thought of me then and I don't care now. I didn't attend my ten-year reunion and I doubt that I'll attend my twenty-year one, either. I don't have a psychological need to prove anything to them.

    My desire for money - which is at least as strong as anyone else's - stems not from my desire to get back at those who snubbed me in school, but to have more freedom and more autonomy. I've always had too many responsibilities and obligations holding me down.

    I'm in my thirties. High school was literally half a lifetime ago. I have yet another birthday coming up soon, and I realize now that I never really had a youth. I never had a stretch where I could be totally selfish and live solely for myself. In fact, I never had even one day where I could wake up and not have to worry about the impact of my actions on somebody else. My family - meaning my elders and my relatives, and not the wife and children that I don't have - always came first, and I gave them everything I had, but my loyalty was not reciprocated. It wasn't worth it.

    As I see things now, my ideal life is one where I can wake up, throw a dart at a map, and go to whatever location on the map that dart has landed on, simply to have the experience of going somewhere I haven't gone before.

    One day, I'd like to walk - not drive, but walk - across the United States. I wouldn't keep to a pace - I'd go only as fast as I felt like going, and stop along the way as I saw fit. I wouldn't worry about how long it would take to reach the other coast. If I ended up lingering in one town for a week, or a month, or a year, or a decade, then so what? I could stay for as long or as little as I wished, and leave as soon as I got bored. That's the kind of life I'd be living if I could afford it - the life of the nomad.

    Eventually, of course, I'd settle down somewhere, get married, and start a family. Because I do want kids. And a dog. And a white picket fence. And a hefty mortgage payment.

    [/digression]

  190. @Svigor

    So, you can’t win by elections, because you can’t even get your candidates on the fucking ballots in November.

    That leaves violence. Who you planning to shoot? Are you going to be part of the forlorn hope that gets the revolution started? Knowing full well that most forlorn hopes trying to start revolutions end up getting their asses slaughtered and no revolution ever comes of it?
     
    You suffer from a failure of imagination. There's a hell of a lot of room between voting and shooting. What would DC do in the face of a broad tax revolt from whites? Broad labor revolts? Millions encamped around the Beltway?

    Cave. Fold like a cheap suit.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca

    What would DC do in the face of a broad tax revolt from whites?

    “Print” more money, at first. Start arresting people and making examples of them second. The tax revolt thing has been tried by some fringe types. You’d have to overcome looking like a lunatic to get people to buy into it. And then you’d need to get millions and millions to have an impact.

    Except, that won’t work, because they’ll just garnish wages from the employers of the millions and millions. Milton Friedman set up the apparatus to defeat you back in WWII.

    Broad labor revolts?

    Yes, you can revolt – except that then you’ll be replaced by an illegal, or an H-1B, or a robot, to name three of the many possibilities. And how are you going to organize the labor revolts? You won’t get the media to publicize what you’re doing, FB and Twitter and Google will likely shut down attempts to organize anything that will cut into THEIR labor, etc. And the unions? Sheeit….

    Millions encamped around the Beltway?

    No you’re getting somewhere! So, who wants to go camping around DC in summer? Or better still in winter? Who wants to stay there long enough to have an impact?

    And honestly, if that many white people show up, you can be goddamned sure the army (or the Social Security Administration) will be called in to start shooting people, as you’ll all be classified as hate group members deserving of death. Honestly, do you think Obama or Hillary or El jeffe Jeb or Ryan or McConnell or Reid or Pelosi would care if they could exterminate a few million pesky white people at one go? Hell, the goddamn media would come out and declare the people ordering the massacres the Greatest Americans of All Time if they did that, and they wouldn’t even have to have their corporate masters kick their asses to do it that time, they’d do it out of the ecstasy they’d feel.

    And, oh by the way, that gets back to violence anyway.

    Look, we’ve been outmaneuvered on all fronts, and it happened a long time ago. They control the government, both parties, the media, the financial institutions, the schools & universities, and pretty much anything else you can think of. These were long-term low-key threats that people have only just started waking up to.

    And now that people have woken up to it, who’s the best they can come up with to fight for their cause? Donald Fucking Trump. He’s done a masterful job of getting himself this far, but (a) do you really trust him, (b) do you really think he can get the job done, and (c) who is going to help him get the job done that isn’t really on the payroll of the people that got us into this mess?

    As for a billion dollars … didn’t Obama spend more than that in 2008? The other side controls pretty much all the big money out there, plus they own the media, plus they own the schools, plus they’ve been conditioning people to just smile and fucking take it for decades. As I said in my earlier comment, an Afghan jihadi kills a bunch of Hispanic gays, and white Republican men get blamed in all the PRIDE parades. How are you going to overcome that kind of conditioning? How are you going to overcome that kind of reckless, arrogant stupidity? It’s only gotten worse since 9/11, and even then we had to swallow a bunch of “Islam is the religion of peace” bullshit from our allegedly gung-ho President.

    Seriously, if you’ve got the means, try and immigrate someplace where they might hold the line, Denmark, or where ever. The American Dream of my forefathers is already dead. The body is just thrashing around now in protest against the inevitable.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    I still have hope!

    But, as per your comment: over here despite the Brexit vote the media narrative is already of some kind of coup (if only!) where the majority vote is conveniently overlooked or nuanced out of contention. The brain washing goes deep. There is also an obtuse refusal to look at why different areas voted as they did or the varying turnout. Never mind the demographics involved (apart from age).

  191. @Zach
    @Hiram Abiff

    "...blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc. "

    And the English Language.

    Replies: @Kylie

    “…blacks can stop using modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, indoor plumbing, music recording devices, the printing press, modern agriculture, etc. ”

    And the English Language.”

    And the internet.

  192. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Like Gato said, the Declaration and Constitution are fine. Free people should always be willing to fight to defend them.

    But who are you going to fight, and who will fight with you? It's been a drip-drip-drip change, and suddenly one day people realize it looks like a deluge. But people just accept this new reality as both immutable and unstoppable.

    Yes, looking at it written down it probably means we're not a free people anymore. But I am defeated on this issue, as I've acknowledged from time to time. I just don't see any hope.

    (One change: Drop birthright citizenship.)

    Fuckin' goddamned A.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    But who are you going to fight, and who will fight with you?

    Short answer to both: EVERYONE.

    Seriously, though, don’t be too glum about things as they stand right now. It looks bad, yeah. I’m not sure the median age of the typical iSteve commenter/lurker, but I imagine there are plenty of Boomers whose heads are spinning at the ‘checkmate’ level of demographic change occurring, especially having grown up in pre ’65 “white-bread” America (or Europe). I’m Gen X, and my head is spinning.

    Here’s the thing: History is full of stunning reversals. I’m not making any predictions, but a lot can happen if people feel they have nothing to lose. Some give up and nod off to oxys. Others may be emboldened to take up a new challenge. Steve for years has called attention to

    The National Question—whether the nation-state can survive as the political expression of a particular people.

    Via Steve, Peter Brimelow in VDARE:

    As I said, this is shaping up to be a long and terrible war. But a hard core of immigration patriots is forming that does not fear it. And the blame for it falls squarely on the heads of the immigration enthusiasts.

  193. @Lot
    @SPMoore8


    In the first place, I haven’ t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the ’30′s, but I’d be happy to look at it.
     
    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime, including using slave labor, right up until Pearl Harbor. These were weapons, including V2 rockets, that were directly used against our allies France and Britain.

    He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22.
     
    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits, as well as resentment by dealers.

    Is it being suggested that if he didn’t hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city?
     
    It is broader than that, that the demand for cheap foreign labor by the rich, in Detroit's case by Henry Ford more than any other single person, is what causes the demographic decline and collapse of civilizations. And further that the "filling up" of the USA by non-white immigrant labor after 1970 would have been far less extreme if we had accepted more poor European immigrants from 1924 to 1960.

    We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we'd take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Clifford Brown, @SPMoore8, @Mr. Anon

    “We have an opportunity now to take in Ukrainians in large numbers, and I wish we’d take it. But it is easier for Salvadorian cholo to get legal residency here than a Ukrainian college graduate.”

    We have an opportunity now to not take in anyone, be they Ukrainian, Salvadoran, or other. Why must we bring in anyone?

    • Agree: ben tillman
  194. @Nick Diaz
    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as "internal" refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.

    I actually agree that it is a bad idea to grant refugee status to people who's lives are threatened because they might have committed crimes in their native countries, but trying to use the internment of Americans as an argument for whether foreign citizens should be granted refugee status or not is retarded.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @ben tillman, @Mr. Anon, @Tex

    “…………..by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen.”

    By my definition, Nick Diaz is a foreign citizen.

  195. @Svigor

    - Jews voted for Brexit more than any other demographic other than White English. And much more than Scots and Irish Catholics and probably a little more than Welsh and Irish Protestant. If you adjust for income and education, Jews voted for Brexit more than even more than their well-educated, urban, and higher income white English neighbors.
     
    Too bad we can't swap our Jewish population for Britain's.

    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.
     
    That would explain the otherwise inexplicable fact that Unz publishes his nuttery. But I hope not.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.

    Ha, ha—I’m afraid not… And as only the most dim-witted commenters haven’t already realized, I don’t necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely “conspiracy theories” fall into that category…

    However, I’ll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I’m pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters. I’ve been busy with other things and have never really investigated them. But the questions raised seem like interesting and important ones to me, and I think it might be nice if other people did bother looking into them more carefully, which is more likely to happen if they’re conveniently available on my webzine.

    Now admittedly, there’s a sharp division of opinion on my decision. On the one hand, various anonymous racialist commenters are clearly concerned that their endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer “guilt by association” by sharing a website with this other material. And on the other hand, there’s that elite establishment friend of mine, whose own boldface friends are regularly quoted on the front page of the NYT/WSJ and who has a very different perspective.

    So whose judgment on these publication matters should I regard as carrying more weight? Such a difficult choice…

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Ron Unz

    There's also the fact that 20 seconds on Google shows that Mr. Revusky is a computer programmer living in Spain. He has his own website saying this, as well as contributions under his name to open source software projects.

    As to the wisdom of publishing 9-11 truthers, I am dubious. I like that there is an open internet where they have very low barriers to sharing their ideas. I also like the purely technical aspects of unz.com. I like a lot of the content. I like what you did with unz.org as well.

    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.



    endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer “guilt by association” by sharing a website with this other material
     
    It isn't our comments that suffer guilt by association, but your regular writers, and more so their ideas.

    I don’t necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely “conspiracy theories” fall into that category
     
    Where you are coy about your views, what you publish can certainly produce reasonable inferences. For example, on the issue of The Israel Lobby Menace, your writers certainly have non-mainstream views, at least in the United States. But there is another set of unpopular views about Israel that you do not publish, though Steve, usually with some sarcasm, semi-endorses: Israel as model for the USA. Is there really much MSM defense of Israel's settlements? Its Gaza policy? Of the many in Israel to the right of Bibi?

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Jonathan Revusky

    , @Nico
    @Ron Unz

    A difficult choice indeed; however, I would suggest that if the goal is to shift or broaden the Overton window one ought to be at least marginally strategic and subtle in stretching it. And on that front 9-11 "Truth"ers pose two sticky problems.

    First, anyone who's going to make a positive contribution to shifting or broadening political discourse must either have the means to turn out an impressive propaganda campaign, as Donald Trump does (and as the LGBT lobby did before him), or at least strive to apply a minimum of factual credibility, self-criticism and logical rigor. Neither is really the case with respect to 9-11 "Truth"ers.

    Second, what exactly do 9-11 "Truth"ers have to bring to the national debate? The revelation that our government is against us and is selling us out? Frankly, one doesn't need to dig that far to come to that conclusion. Or to convince us that Sunni revivalism isn't really a threat to the Western world? The left is already working overtime to insist that that is the case and regardless of how many Arab Muslims we open our doors to. We might as well say that the Coulibaly bros worked for the French secret services, or that Jawel lodged the Bataclan terrorists at the behest of the NATO supreme command. (See my previous point on "credibility.")

    , @biz
    @Ron Unz

    Let me save you the time. I've looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.

    There is no purpose in being fringe for the sake of being fringe. That is a juvenile aesthetic like the goth kids in South Park. Concentrate on ideas that are out of the mainstream but are actually interesting / plausible.

    Replies: @Lot, @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Ron Unz

    , @iffen
    @Ron Unz

    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    However, I’ll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I’m pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

     

    I've read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in "conspiracy theories" and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren't going to tell you to your face that you're crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.

    There's no evidence that I'm aware of that powerful people in any large numbers tend to find it plausible that, for example, the Orlando shooting was a false flag.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

  196. @Kylie
    @SFG

    You think blacks and you [non-observant] Jews have it bad?

    I'm a white middle-class woman. You know, one of the group Whiskey is always railing against.* I'm expected to have drunk, wallowed in and douched with the Kool-Aid all the other white middle-class women have used. And when they realize I haven't, they turn on me. No solidarity or sororal loyalty for me. And frankly, that's a two-way street. I feel nothing but contempt and hostility toward them.

    I've always loved being female, never wanted to be anything else. But when I read about and listen to the sheer idiocy and lunacy most of that group spews, I don't even think of myself as a woman in the same sense that they are women.

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @iSteveFan, @Ace, @Mark2, @Monopthalmus

    Hello Kylie,

    Are you single? Any interest in a SWM, 38, hwp? Have income and loyalty, will trave. A woman like you is a unicorn to red-blooded men not in the puerile PUA camp…..

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Autochthon

    I'm married. And old enough for you to call me "Ma".

    Seriously I feel for young conservative SWM. Celibacy or sleeping with the enemy seem to be your only options. It's grim out there.

    But I've been heartened to discover several conservative women during this election year. So don't give up hope of finding one for yourself.

  197. “”My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.””

    “That would explain the otherwise inexplicable fact that Unz publishes his nuttery. But I hope not.”

    It would also indicate that he is a ashamed of it, if he puts it out under a pseudonym. Revusky comes across as a dullard, so I don’t think he is Ron Unz writing under an alternate name, unless he can also manage an alternate (and dim-witted) writing style.

  198. @Anonymous Nephew
    @celt darnell

    I think few iSteve readers would be surprised by the news that (a/c/t Lord Ashcroft's private polling org) minorities voted heavily in favour of Remain. Black people were most likely to vote remain, ironic when (as in the US with Latino immigration) it's their employment prospects that are worst hit by Eastern Europe immigration.

    But they might be surprised to learn that the only minorities to vote majority Leave were Sikhs and Jews (admittedly on a small sample size). Most UK Jews aren't oligarchs or Guardian op-ed writers.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

    Replies: @SFG, @celt darnell

    Fascinating about the Jews. I heard they were voting 60-40 for remain (based on a poll taken before the vote — there actually wasn’t a lot of ethnic polling for this referendum). But I’ll accept Ashcroft’s numbers.

    Perhaps our Sephardi brethren recognise there’ll be no more Benjamin Disraelis if the EU gets its way.

    Less surprised about the Sikhs — from my experience, they tend to vote against whatever Muslims vote for.

  199. @Stan Adams
    @Old fogey


    However, after Obama was elected and when the election results showed that a majority of whites had voted for him, I expected that the first thing he would do would be to announce that his election showed that it was no longer necessary or advisable for affirmative action policies of any kind.
     
    Really? I wouldn't have expected that in a million years.

    I didn't vote for Obama, either. I was not in the least surprised when he turned out to be the Chicago-style race-baiting politician that we now know him to be. The "Obama is a Lincoln-esque uniter and a postracial healer" bullshit stunk to high heaven even before the election.

    I realized a long time ago that the white-guilt BS is a religious phenomenon. Obama did not create it, but he sure as hell profited from it. (Obama, like Bush before him, is the symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.) For good-thinking whites, endless displays of masochistic self-abasement are the only way to prove their piety.

    I'm a cynical guy. I believe that no one, not even Donald Trump, seeks power for any other reason than to have power.

    But not everyone wants to have power for the same reason.

    As much as I like Trump - and, whatever happens, I will always admire him for singlehandedly taking on the liars in the rotten, corrupt political and media establishment - I believe that, ultimately, he is driven by his ego.

    All politicians are ego-driven, of course, but Trump's egotism is purer. Ironically, it's untainted by the simple greed that prompts so many of our so-called leaders to bend over for the rich and the powerful. Trump is many things, but he's not a whore.

    (The Clintons, on the other hand, have always been whores, and they always will be.)

    He wants the ego rush that comes with being the most powerful man in the world, yes, but he also wants to go down in history as the man who made America great again. He wants the name Trump, already plastered on so many of his buildings, to echo through the ages. He hopes that, 200 years from now, schoolchildren will learn about President Trump as they now learn about Presidents Washington and Lincoln.

    Seventeen years ago, when Trump first started talking seriously about running for president, he said nothing about immigration, but a lot about "spirit":

    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/10/08/trump.transcript/


    Plus, I think there's a great lack of spirit in this country. You know, what happened over the last four years is disgusting, and I just think there's a tremendous lack of spirit, and I think the spirit has to be brought back.

    [...]

    I mean, Ronald Reagan, to me, was a great president. And, whether you are liberal or you're conservative, people really view him as a great president. He'll go down as a great president and not so much for the things he did, it's just, there was a demeanor to him and a spirit that the country had under Ronald Reagan that was really phenomenal. And, you know, there was just a style and a class, and that a big part of the president, I mean, that's a really big part of being president. Ronald Reagan had it.

    Eisenhower, now Eisenhower -- I don't see him too much on lists of great, great presidents -- but there was a nice time in the country, the country had a prestige and he had a certain, you know, demeanor. He was a quality, class act. There are certain people that have that.
     

    He wants to make people feel good about America again, so they can feel good about the man who made them feel good. He wants to be the hero, the savior, the prophet leading us to the promised land. If he can do that, then he can legitimize his fame and make himself immortal, to boot.

    He understands that immivasion is the driving force behind this country's malaise, and that if something is not done soon, we will never again be able to recreate anything resembling the conditions that allowed the America of his youth to prosper.

    Eisenhower was president in Trump's childhood and early teenage years - he was six when Ike took office and fourteen when JFK took over. Reagan was president in Trump's youthful prime - the '80s were his glory years, when he was the biggest clown at the carnival. Ike and Ronnie both presided over epochs when America not only prospered but believed in itself. It's not surprising that he'd want to follow in their footsteps.

    (Reagan was something of a backstabber when it came to conservatives - he gave us amnesty, for one. But he bankrupted the Soviets, putting an end to the Cold War, and he made people believe that it was morning again in God's shining city on the hill.)

    Trump may or may not meet the traditional standards of "presidential material," but he pisses off a lot of people who I hate, people who are actively trying to destroy America, people who are working overtime to flush this country down the toilet. That, alone, is reason enough for me to vote for him. I feel a lot more enthusiastic voting for him than I ever would have felt about voting for, say, Jeb Bush.

    And if he stabs us in the back? Well ... that's what Republicans have been doing to their base for many years. At least he'll have given us a hell of a show.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Also, let me clarify the difference between ego and greed:

    Greed is the lust for money and the things that money can buy. Ego is one’s perception of oneself. They feed each other – one craves money to buy the things that one believes will improve the world’s perception of oneself, thus enabling one to improve one’s perception of oneself.

    The other day I read about a Hollywood movie producer who hired a helicopter to ferry him to his twenty-year high-school reunion*. He brought along two buxom blondes – one for each arm. This was his way of proving to the kids who had snubbed him that he was now the bigshot and they were the nobodies.

    Trump has always been driven by his need for attention. Having money is a means of getting attention. But he has reached the absolute limit of the attention that having money can get him. If he wants more attention, or another kind of attention, then he must find it in some other way than having money.

    And that some other way is running for president as “the man who will make America great again.”

    It’s an ego trip for him. For the rest of us, it is, if nothing else, an interesting ride.

    The great thing is that he might actually do it. He might actually make America great again. Wouldn’t that be something?

    [digression]

    *That, to me, seems a colossal waste of money. I, too, was at the bottom of the totem pole in high school, but I didn’t care what the other kids thought of me then and I don’t care now. I didn’t attend my ten-year reunion and I doubt that I’ll attend my twenty-year one, either. I don’t have a psychological need to prove anything to them.

    My desire for money – which is at least as strong as anyone else’s – stems not from my desire to get back at those who snubbed me in school, but to have more freedom and more autonomy. I’ve always had too many responsibilities and obligations holding me down.

    I’m in my thirties. High school was literally half a lifetime ago. I have yet another birthday coming up soon, and I realize now that I never really had a youth. I never had a stretch where I could be totally selfish and live solely for myself. In fact, I never had even one day where I could wake up and not have to worry about the impact of my actions on somebody else. My family – meaning my elders and my relatives, and not the wife and children that I don’t have – always came first, and I gave them everything I had, but my loyalty was not reciprocated. It wasn’t worth it.

    As I see things now, my ideal life is one where I can wake up, throw a dart at a map, and go to whatever location on the map that dart has landed on, simply to have the experience of going somewhere I haven’t gone before.

    One day, I’d like to walk – not drive, but walk – across the United States. I wouldn’t keep to a pace – I’d go only as fast as I felt like going, and stop along the way as I saw fit. I wouldn’t worry about how long it would take to reach the other coast. If I ended up lingering in one town for a week, or a month, or a year, or a decade, then so what? I could stay for as long or as little as I wished, and leave as soon as I got bored. That’s the kind of life I’d be living if I could afford it – the life of the nomad.

    Eventually, of course, I’d settle down somewhere, get married, and start a family. Because I do want kids. And a dog. And a white picket fence. And a hefty mortgage payment.

    [/digression]

  200. @Josh
    Steve, have you read the slaughterer of cities by e. Michael jones or not?

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Percy Gryce

    Amen, that book really clarifies the the social engineering of the “white” American ethnics (Jones considers the targeted ethnics to be: Northern Catholics and, in other writings, Southern Protestants) to eliminate their ability to form/maintain solidarity, consensus, and power… it would seem that the new Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing Rule is targeting Midwestern nice-whites… Jones also considers “white” as a negative signifier that got transferred from the South to the nation as a whole, which complicates forming political alliances between Catholics, Protestants and Jews, and even worse, just muddies the waters of what the hell “white” means. See: Tim Wise etc.

  201. @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime

    So in other words, Ford didn't actually support Hitler, but Ford Germany built trucks and personnel carriers for the Nazi regime until the US entered the war. After the US entered the war, Ford Germany was on its own, and at that point began to use forced labor, and built turbines for V-2's (the first V-2's were from 1944).

    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits

    So, in other words, while Ford strenuously apologized for the articles, beginning in 1927 and continuing to at least WW2, his apologies were insincere. I can buy that. But that just means he was mostly interested in making money, not in hating Jews.

    If the labor demand after WW1 didn't cause the Great Migration the Great Migration would have happened anyway. Lots of black people didn't want to live in the South, and they needed to be employed somehow. Part of the problem today is that, due to our shrinking manufacturing base, many of them are not employed at all, or else are employed in petty bureaucratic jobs that add no value.

    I remember reading a number of French historians (Goubert, etc.) who argued that the industrial revolution in France was fueled above all by the surplus population from the countryside converging on the towns: they provided the labor, and eventually the parishes found atelier/factory type work for them to do. So, in other words, excess labor fueled the process, not excess demand for consumer goods.

    What it really comes down to is that white Americans do not want to do scut work, despite the fact that we all have fathers or uncles or grandparents or granduncles who worked every day for 50 years as a factory worker, stevedore, sheet metal worker, meat packing plant, etc. and we admire them for that self-sacrifice. Everyone wants to work in an office and expend minimal calories generating content for someone else and being highly compensated for doing so. And I can't blame any white person (or any color person) for preferring that kind of gig. But someone has to make $12 an hour gutting steers eight hours a day, and if you won't do it, and I won't do it, some illegal will.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Steve Sailer

    “someone has to make $12 an hour gutting steers eight hours a day”

    Really? Why can’t they make $20/hour or more? After all, it may be unpleasant, but it takes skill to do well, like, say, plumbing, which pays $40 – $60 an hour.

    “and if you won’t do it, and I won’t do it, some illegal will.”

    As it happens, I know quite a few slaughterhouse workers across several states. They are nearly 100% blue collar whites from families whose names go back to colonial times. They earn $15 to $30 an hour and live okay but not great.

    Clearly, old-stock American citizens will do this kind of work. They just won’t do it in the low-wage, low-quality, low-safety environments that the illegal-fueled mega-meat processors prefer.

    The problem is not American unwillingness to do unpleasant or difficult work. The problem is the ready availability of a low-wage, low-quality, low-risk-aversion work force: a work force that drives down wages even for those who don’t participate in it.

    • Agree: Spmoore8, Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Almost Missouri

    Tom Arnold worked in a slaughterhouse before he was famous.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  202. @Autochthon
    @Kylie

    Hello Kylie,

    Are you single? Any interest in a SWM, 38, hwp? Have income and loyalty, will trave. A woman like you is a unicorn to red-blooded men not in the puerile PUA camp.....

    Replies: @Kylie

    I’m married. And old enough for you to call me “Ma”.

    Seriously I feel for young conservative SWM. Celibacy or sleeping with the enemy seem to be your only options. It’s grim out there.

    But I’ve been heartened to discover several conservative women during this election year. So don’t give up hope of finding one for yourself.

  203. @415 reasons
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    Visited Budapest in April. The most noteworthy thing (other than how ethnically homogenous it was other than American tourists) was how inscrutable the language was. Good luck.

    Beautiful city though. Wish we could have spent more time there.

    Replies: @Olorin

    Hey, guys. Hungarian is easy.

    Just learn Suomi first.

    Kuusi palaa!

  204. @SFG
    @Steve Sailer

    Wow. Brilliant. So *that's* what it was all about.

    You should do a post just on that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I don’t know if this WASP v. Catholic distinction in propensity for white flight is all that tenable but I’ve been kicking it around for awhile.

    The idea is that British-Americans have a frontier tradition, and perhaps some of the Protestant Continentals, while most of the Catholic groups had an urban tradition: the Irish believed in taking over urban institutions like the police and the Catholic Church. Italians like high density living near their relatives. I don’t know stereotypes about lower profile Catholics like Poles.

    Here’s a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it’s ethnic, perhaps it’s the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it’s economic.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    Could it be that Pittsburgh never had a black population whose critical mass of dysfunction drove whites to suburbia???

    That is what Paul Kersey seems to think.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Brutusale
    @Steve Sailer

    I have an aunt who married a Pole from a Pittsburgh suburb. The whole extended family has been there 70 years, all the men working at the local steel mill. The mill is gone, but they're all still there.

    Eastwood's intransigent character in Gran Torino may have lived in Detroit, but his name was Walt Kowalski.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Steve Sailer


    Here’s a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it’s ethnic, perhaps it’s the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it’s economic.
     
    I think the topography angle is indeed pretty big.

    I grew up in Cincinnati with a hilly big river city topography similar to Pittsburgh. The hills and ridges break up neighbors and--much like military defense--give whites positions they can hold against the blacks. Cincinnati definitely did much better hold off sprawling ghettofication than its Ohio sister city Cleveland. (Where the blacks sprawled east across the lake plain to the hills--and nice suburbs--east of town.)

    The more natural terrain features the better. And the flat lake-plain cities like Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago are particularly vulnerable. You've talked a good bit about your wife's family in Austin versus the good-whites in Oak Park, who created a successful barrier only because their "goodness" and architectural preservation somehow got them a look-the-other-way license to cheat on the open housing provisions. Unless you have something very special like that working for you, if you're in a pancake flat area with blacks--or now Mexicans--you're eventually going to be SOL.

    Of course Cincinnati--the city--in recent decades, after one of those phony BLMish incidents, riots, Soros astroturf and such, has headed downhill fast. I don't live there, but i'm guessing the old German Catholic neighborhoods have failed--in part quality\size of housing stock--and whites have just thrown in the towel and fled the city. Still superior, i think to the lake plain cities and certainly St. Louis! But if a young white is contemplating starting out and building a life in the midwest, i think Pittsburgh is a much better bet.

    It's too bad all the blacks can't just all leave at least one metropolis--leaving the whites there bereft of the opportunity to do all that oppression, exploitation and appropriation and such that is apparently keeping us afloat.
    , @Muse
    @Steve Sailer

    This is why:

    Industrial growth in Detroit was so large, it had an insatiable demand for low skilled labor. Detroit's growth dwarfed Pittsburgh. All you needed to do was be able to turn screws and show up everyday to be middle class. The assembly line was truly a revolution for the daft and the unskilled. WWII put this dynamic into overdrive. People that in the old economy were unproductive suddenly became phenomenally more productive, and they could be paid well if they could endure stultifying jobs on the line. Even illiterate scots-irish hillbillies and blacks could make a fine living, and they came in droves.

    Now what outcome could one expect from the children of the multi-cultural mishmash of autoworkers after the plants close? Post industrial Detroit and its suburbs perhaps?

    Instead of making the daft productive, the Internet/tech revolution has made them unnecessary. This is why low skilled immigration is so damaging to the country at this juncture.

    Look at the Detroit growth trajectory vs. Pittsburgh starting in 1900-1910. The blacks and hillbillies came during WWII.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=detroit+population+growth&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS697US697&oq=detroit+population+growth&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.12058j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=3bHtzUQb4iCXRM%3A

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @biz
    @Steve Sailer

    The differences between Detroit and Pittsburgh are as follows:

    Dominant white ethnicities:
    Pitts: German, Scots-Irish
    Detroit: Eastern European, Italian, Greek, Armenian, Chaldean, etc.

    Universities:
    Pitt: Carnegie-Mellon (top comp-sci department in the world), Univ. of Pittsburgh
    Detroit: Wayne State (commuter school that just dropped its only math requirement)

    Terrain:
    Pitt: Hilly
    Detroit: Flat

    Public Transit:
    Pitt: streetcar system
    Detroit: non-existent

    Replies: @Lot

  205. @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    Not really Hitler personally or specifically, but he allowed Ford Germany to make weapons for the Nazi regime

    So in other words, Ford didn't actually support Hitler, but Ford Germany built trucks and personnel carriers for the Nazi regime until the US entered the war. After the US entered the war, Ford Germany was on its own, and at that point began to use forced labor, and built turbines for V-2's (the first V-2's were from 1944).

    Not really. At least per Wikipedia, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew were leading to boycotts and libel lawsuits

    So, in other words, while Ford strenuously apologized for the articles, beginning in 1927 and continuing to at least WW2, his apologies were insincere. I can buy that. But that just means he was mostly interested in making money, not in hating Jews.

    If the labor demand after WW1 didn't cause the Great Migration the Great Migration would have happened anyway. Lots of black people didn't want to live in the South, and they needed to be employed somehow. Part of the problem today is that, due to our shrinking manufacturing base, many of them are not employed at all, or else are employed in petty bureaucratic jobs that add no value.

    I remember reading a number of French historians (Goubert, etc.) who argued that the industrial revolution in France was fueled above all by the surplus population from the countryside converging on the towns: they provided the labor, and eventually the parishes found atelier/factory type work for them to do. So, in other words, excess labor fueled the process, not excess demand for consumer goods.

    What it really comes down to is that white Americans do not want to do scut work, despite the fact that we all have fathers or uncles or grandparents or granduncles who worked every day for 50 years as a factory worker, stevedore, sheet metal worker, meat packing plant, etc. and we admire them for that self-sacrifice. Everyone wants to work in an office and expend minimal calories generating content for someone else and being highly compensated for doing so. And I can't blame any white person (or any color person) for preferring that kind of gig. But someone has to make $12 an hour gutting steers eight hours a day, and if you won't do it, and I won't do it, some illegal will.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Steve Sailer

    Ford also agreed to build a car plant in Stalin’s Soviet Union in 1929.

  206. @Steve Sailer
    @SFG

    I don't know if this WASP v. Catholic distinction in propensity for white flight is all that tenable but I've been kicking it around for awhile.

    The idea is that British-Americans have a frontier tradition, and perhaps some of the Protestant Continentals, while most of the Catholic groups had an urban tradition: the Irish believed in taking over urban institutions like the police and the Catholic Church. Italians like high density living near their relatives. I don't know stereotypes about lower profile Catholics like Poles.

    Here's a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it's ethnic, perhaps it's the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it's economic.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Brutusale, @AnotherDad, @Muse, @biz

    Could it be that Pittsburgh never had a black population whose critical mass of dysfunction drove whites to suburbia???

    That is what Paul Kersey seems to think.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    My vague impression is that the city of Pittsburgh is about a quarter black.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

  207. @Old fogey
    @TheJester

    Unlike you, I did not vote for Obama and was one of those questioning his eligibility for the post of president since he was not a natural-born American (his father was not a citizen at any time). And I still blame the media for their utter failure of following up on the logical questions that were raised during his candidacy about his eligibility. McCain, you will recall, had to pass a review to examine whether his birth in the Panama Canal Zone while his father was serving there passed the "natural-born citizen" qualification noted in the Constitution.

    However, after Obama was elected and when the election results showed that a majority of whites had voted for him, I expected that the first thing he would do would be to announce that his election showed that it was no longer necessary or advisable for affirmative action policies of any kind. Unfortunately, he did not do this - on the contrary, he carefully played the race card at every opportunity, making the country far more racist now than it was at the time of his election. What a wasted opportunity.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @ChaseBizzy

    Boo-hoo-hoo, the burdens of McCain’s review. You still probably voted for that traitorous lunatic instead of abstaining. I’m voting Trump and I don’t care what capital letter has next to his name. Republicans like McCain created a viable Obama candidacy and I’m supposed to hate that closet case more the his cucked opponents?

  208. @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    Could it be that Pittsburgh never had a black population whose critical mass of dysfunction drove whites to suburbia???

    That is what Paul Kersey seems to think.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    My vague impression is that the city of Pittsburgh is about a quarter black.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh#Demographics

    Yes but while Pittsburgh seems to have lost 40% of its population since the 1970s to I guess the suburbs and deindustrialization, it only experienced a total of a 5-6% relative gain in its black population to to a still low for a major urban area 26%.

    There may be something to your Catholics sticking to their old neighborhoods and parishes through tough times analysis.

    But at the sametime did "sharp elbows" from no nonsense white ethnics encourage potentially troublesome "Steel City" blacks to move elsewhere for better gibs and rent seeking and less aggressive law enforcement.

    Maybe a strong Catholic school system in Pittsburgh removed the pressure to move to the suburbs for better schools while denying radical blacks from a major rent seeking and community destroying opportunity.

    Perhaps some of the more problem blacks moved to state capital Harrisburg PA for better gibs and rent seeking.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrisburg,_Pennsylvania#Demographics

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  209. @ben tillman
    @anonymous-antimarxist


    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.
     
    Compensating or "overcompensating" (for what?) after growing up in a college town is not a "thing". I grew up in a college town, and less than 1% of my Facebook friends from back home express any SJW opinions.

    Now, growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon -- that's different. Our one next-door neighbor did just that, and she is a loony liberal.

    Replies: @SFG, @anonymous-antimarxist, @Boomstick

    Ever watch Portlandia?

    Kristof seems to wracked with white guilt that he grew up on a small farm with a cherry orchard with his college professor parents.

    For Kristof that white people can build nice lives for themselves and their families while brown/black skinned people struggle to do so must mean racism, exploitation, magic dirt…..

    SWPLtude and Virtue Signaling describe Kristof to a T.

  210. Lot says:
    @Ron Unz
    @Svigor


    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.
     
    Ha, ha---I'm afraid not... And as only the most dim-witted commenters haven't already realized, I don't necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely "conspiracy theories" fall into that category...

    However, I'll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I'm pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    Frankly, I don't know the truth of these conspiracy matters. I've been busy with other things and have never really investigated them. But the questions raised seem like interesting and important ones to me, and I think it might be nice if other people did bother looking into them more carefully, which is more likely to happen if they're conveniently available on my webzine.

    Now admittedly, there's a sharp division of opinion on my decision. On the one hand, various anonymous racialist commenters are clearly concerned that their endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer "guilt by association" by sharing a website with this other material. And on the other hand, there's that elite establishment friend of mine, whose own boldface friends are regularly quoted on the front page of the NYT/WSJ and who has a very different perspective.

    So whose judgment on these publication matters should I regard as carrying more weight? Such a difficult choice...

    Replies: @Lot, @Nico, @biz, @iffen, @Hepp

    There’s also the fact that 20 seconds on Google shows that Mr. Revusky is a computer programmer living in Spain. He has his own website saying this, as well as contributions under his name to open source software projects.

    As to the wisdom of publishing 9-11 truthers, I am dubious. I like that there is an open internet where they have very low barriers to sharing their ideas. I also like the purely technical aspects of unz.com. I like a lot of the content. I like what you did with unz.org as well.

    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.

    endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer “guilt by association” by sharing a website with this other material

    It isn’t our comments that suffer guilt by association, but your regular writers, and more so their ideas.

    I don’t necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely “conspiracy theories” fall into that category

    Where you are coy about your views, what you publish can certainly produce reasonable inferences. For example, on the issue of The Israel Lobby Menace, your writers certainly have non-mainstream views, at least in the United States. But there is another set of unpopular views about Israel that you do not publish, though Steve, usually with some sarcasm, semi-endorses: Israel as model for the USA. Is there really much MSM defense of Israel’s settlements? Its Gaza policy? Of the many in Israel to the right of Bibi?

    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.
     
    Well, rightly or wrongly, the definition of "mainstream" in our society is someone being on TeeVee, or failing that, at least regularly mentioned in the WSJ-NYT or other major publications.

    I've seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky, and over the years she's been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a "9-11 Truther" the appointment was pulled. However, he's still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    Certainly there people, and (I'd suspect) lots of other "Truthers" are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger. My impression is that there are all sorts of "conspiracy websites" out there with enormously greater traffic than the racialist websites.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.

    Replies: @JackOH, @Nico, @Lot, @Jonathan Revusky

    , @Jonathan Revusky
    @Lot


    As to the wisdom of publishing 9-11 truthers, I am dubious.
     
    Your position seems to be that 9/11 "Truthers" are simply self-evidently wrong. That, as far as I can see, is equivalent to claiming that the official story is self-evidently correct.

    I am puzzled as to why anybody would think that. Just to focus this, could you outline what the strongest available evidence for the government story is? I mean, specifically that these attacks on 9/11 were orchestrated from Afghanistan, by a bearded religious fanatic named Osama Bin Laden.

    The obvious implication is that this story is self-evidently true and only a nut would doubt it. Could you outline the strongest available evidence for this?
  211. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    My vague impression is that the city of Pittsburgh is about a quarter black.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh#Demographics

    Yes but while Pittsburgh seems to have lost 40% of its population since the 1970s to I guess the suburbs and deindustrialization, it only experienced a total of a 5-6% relative gain in its black population to to a still low for a major urban area 26%.

    There may be something to your Catholics sticking to their old neighborhoods and parishes through tough times analysis.

    But at the sametime did “sharp elbows” from no nonsense white ethnics encourage potentially troublesome “Steel City” blacks to move elsewhere for better gibs and rent seeking and less aggressive law enforcement.

    Maybe a strong Catholic school system in Pittsburgh removed the pressure to move to the suburbs for better schools while denying radical blacks from a major rent seeking and community destroying opportunity.

    Perhaps some of the more problem blacks moved to state capital Harrisburg PA for better gibs and rent seeking.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrisburg,_Pennsylvania#Demographics

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Maybe one difference between Detroit and Pittsburgh was in the unions?

    The UAW was quite modern liberal on race, led by a German Protestant socialist, while the steelworker's union was not.

    But I've only spent one night in Pittsburgh and never got closer to Detroit than the Oakland Hills Country Club for the 1985 U.S. Open, so I'm pretty clueless.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

  212. @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh#Demographics

    Yes but while Pittsburgh seems to have lost 40% of its population since the 1970s to I guess the suburbs and deindustrialization, it only experienced a total of a 5-6% relative gain in its black population to to a still low for a major urban area 26%.

    There may be something to your Catholics sticking to their old neighborhoods and parishes through tough times analysis.

    But at the sametime did "sharp elbows" from no nonsense white ethnics encourage potentially troublesome "Steel City" blacks to move elsewhere for better gibs and rent seeking and less aggressive law enforcement.

    Maybe a strong Catholic school system in Pittsburgh removed the pressure to move to the suburbs for better schools while denying radical blacks from a major rent seeking and community destroying opportunity.

    Perhaps some of the more problem blacks moved to state capital Harrisburg PA for better gibs and rent seeking.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrisburg,_Pennsylvania#Demographics

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Maybe one difference between Detroit and Pittsburgh was in the unions?

    The UAW was quite modern liberal on race, led by a German Protestant socialist, while the steelworker’s union was not.

    But I’ve only spent one night in Pittsburgh and never got closer to Detroit than the Oakland Hills Country Club for the 1985 U.S. Open, so I’m pretty clueless.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    You may have a point about the UAW and the "Treaty of Detroit" era in the 1950s. Also remember that the Ford Foundation's all out embrace of Cultural Marxism as soon as Henry Ford was dead. Last white flight was really easy in Detroit where it meant just literally moving one exit down the numerous interstates.

    Also, steel making is inherently dangerous and requires workers to trust and look out for one another. Perhaps its requirements for greater solidarity had an impact on the surrounding community. A single idiot goof-off may hurt the auto company and eventually the union, but won't get you maimed or killed.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  213. @Bill
    @wren


    Can he recite the Arabic call to prayer with a first-rate accent? Did Obama really call it one of the prettiest sounds on earth?
     
    I think that is one of the most humanizing Obama quotes. It is, indeed, a beautiful sound. And the facts that Obama has thought about a question like "what's the most beautiful sound on Earth" and that he's settled on a sung prayer as the answer almost make me doubt that he is a CIA android manufactured in Saruman's works.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Olorin, @Percy Gryce

    It is, indeed, a beautiful sound.

    Ah, yes, the soundtrack of dhimmitude.

  214. “White flight”: an early example of front lashing, no?

  215. @Dirk Dagger
    @Anonymous Nephew

    And now:


    Justin Timberlake Praises Black Actor, Says ‘We’re All the Same’ — He Somehow Ends Up Apologizing

    Singer and actor Justin Timberlake has apologized on Twitter for saying that “we’re all the same,” regardless of race.

    The apology came after Timberlake commented in a discussion about black actor Jesse Williams’ acceptance speech at the BET awards, in which Williams blasted how he says whites treat blacks.

     

    Replies: @Tom-in-VA, @Percy Gryce

    Anyone who apologizes in any Twitter war automatically loses my sympathy.

    • Agree: Kylie
  216. By definition refugees can only be foreign nationals. Posting that article means nothing. Is posting an article from the Washington Post your attempt at using argumentum ad verecundiam? Because, if so, it is pathetic. BOTH you and the Washington Post are incorrect. How can you be a “refugee” in your own country? Do you have any idea how retarded you sound?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Nick Diaz

    Perhaps you should take up your argument with the Internal Displacement Monitoring Centre:

    http://www.internal-displacement.org/

    , @Steve Sailer
    @Nick Diaz

    Perhaps you should take up your argument with the Internal Displacement Monitoring Centre:

    http://www.internal-displacement.org/

  217. @Nick Diaz
    @Steve Sailer

    By definition refugees can only be foreign nationals. Posting that article means nothing. Is posting an article from the Washington Post your attempt at using argumentum ad verecundiam? Because, if so, it is pathetic. BOTH you and the Washington Post are incorrect. How can you be a "refugee" in your own country? Do you have any idea how retarded you sound?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer

    Perhaps you should take up your argument with the Internal Displacement Monitoring Centre:

    http://www.internal-displacement.org/

  218. @Nick Diaz
    @Steve Sailer

    By definition refugees can only be foreign nationals. Posting that article means nothing. Is posting an article from the Washington Post your attempt at using argumentum ad verecundiam? Because, if so, it is pathetic. BOTH you and the Washington Post are incorrect. How can you be a "refugee" in your own country? Do you have any idea how retarded you sound?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer

    Perhaps you should take up your argument with the Internal Displacement Monitoring Centre:

    http://www.internal-displacement.org/

  219. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @TheJester

    The real Obama...committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from “brown” and “black” countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    Other than the gay agenda, all that makes him no different than the standard Republican Presidential candidate.

    Replies: @Flip

    It does sound like Ryan and Boehner. Why do the Republicans even exist?

  220. @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    If you want to call For an anti-semite, that's OK, but if one bothers to check the underlying facts, it's a little more complicated. In the first place, I haven' t seen any evidence that he was supporting Hitler, in the '30's, but I'd be happy to look at it. As for the International Jew, that's a compilation of Op-Eds from the Dearborn Independent, under Ford's name, which he did not write. He also strenuously apologized for the articles, mostly written 1920-22. Looking at some of the articles, it sounds like Ford (or his ghost, or both) were in the thrall of contemporary attitudes that felt that Mediterraneans and Jews were destroying America, by virtue of Bolshevism and Anarchism, and by a number of cherry picked stories (many related by Jews) about Jews at the time (e.g., Arnold Rothstein fixing the 1919 World Series, etc.)

    I wouldn't want to let Ford off the hook completely, I'm just not sure what is accomplished by calling him an anti-semite. Is it being suggested that if he didn't hate Jews Detroit would have remained a white city? Well, I guess we can say then that at least he wasn't a racist. Does that mean that the bad names cancel each other out?

    Replies: @SFG, @Lot, @Flip

    Ford was mentioned favorably in Mein Kampf.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Flip

    And in "Brave New World." He was a big deal.

    Replies: @Steve from Detroit, @Dave Pinsen

    , @Ron Unz
    @Flip

    Actually, Lenin and the early Bolsheviks considered Ford as one of the world's greatest revolutionary heroes.

    As most of you should probably know, mass industrialization was the absolutely top-priority Bolshevik policy. And the Bolsheviks actually called their industrial policy "Fordism"...

  221. @Flip
    @SPMoore8

    Ford was mentioned favorably in Mein Kampf.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ron Unz

    And in “Brave New World.” He was a big deal.

    • Replies: @Steve from Detroit
    @Steve Sailer

    In all of its facets, the history of Henry Ford is much more complex than is readily discussed. This, from the NYT, as to why he might not have liked bankers:

    The 1921 business depression brought the Ford Motor Company its most severe financial crisis, and served to demonstrate both Mr. Ford's antipathy to bankers, and his resourcefulness. When it became acute the company had obligations of $58,000,000 due between Jan. 1 and April 18, and only $20,000,000 with which to meet them.

    Investment bankers were convinced that he would have to go to them "hat in hand," and an officer of one large New York bank journeyed to Detroit to offer Mr. Ford a large loan on the condition that a representative of the bankers be appointed treasurer of the Ford Motor Company with full control over its finances. Mr. Ford silently handed him his hat.

    He loaded up Ford dealers throughout the country with all the cars they could possibly handle and compelled them to pay cash, thereby adding nearly $25,000,000 to the funds in hand. Then, by purchasing a railroad of his own, the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton, and by other economies, he cut one-third from the time his raw materials and finished products were in transit. Thereby he was able to decrease by one-third the inventory of goods he needed on hand for uninterrupted production, and to release $28,000,000 from capital funds to ready cash.


    The full article: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0730.html

    The Henry Ford Museum is extraordinary. Just one example: In the 1940s, he had led the design of a car made with soybeans (formed into a type of plastic).

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    I thought the Ford in Brave New World was supposed to be Freud.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  222. @Ron Unz
    @Svigor


    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.
     
    Ha, ha---I'm afraid not... And as only the most dim-witted commenters haven't already realized, I don't necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely "conspiracy theories" fall into that category...

    However, I'll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I'm pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    Frankly, I don't know the truth of these conspiracy matters. I've been busy with other things and have never really investigated them. But the questions raised seem like interesting and important ones to me, and I think it might be nice if other people did bother looking into them more carefully, which is more likely to happen if they're conveniently available on my webzine.

    Now admittedly, there's a sharp division of opinion on my decision. On the one hand, various anonymous racialist commenters are clearly concerned that their endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer "guilt by association" by sharing a website with this other material. And on the other hand, there's that elite establishment friend of mine, whose own boldface friends are regularly quoted on the front page of the NYT/WSJ and who has a very different perspective.

    So whose judgment on these publication matters should I regard as carrying more weight? Such a difficult choice...

    Replies: @Lot, @Nico, @biz, @iffen, @Hepp

    A difficult choice indeed; however, I would suggest that if the goal is to shift or broaden the Overton window one ought to be at least marginally strategic and subtle in stretching it. And on that front 9-11 “Truth”ers pose two sticky problems.

    First, anyone who’s going to make a positive contribution to shifting or broadening political discourse must either have the means to turn out an impressive propaganda campaign, as Donald Trump does (and as the LGBT lobby did before him), or at least strive to apply a minimum of factual credibility, self-criticism and logical rigor. Neither is really the case with respect to 9-11 “Truth”ers.

    Second, what exactly do 9-11 “Truth”ers have to bring to the national debate? The revelation that our government is against us and is selling us out? Frankly, one doesn’t need to dig that far to come to that conclusion. Or to convince us that Sunni revivalism isn’t really a threat to the Western world? The left is already working overtime to insist that that is the case and regardless of how many Arab Muslims we open our doors to. We might as well say that the Coulibaly bros worked for the French secret services, or that Jawel lodged the Bataclan terrorists at the behest of the NATO supreme command. (See my previous point on “credibility.”)

  223. @SPMoore8
    @Lot

    I forgot to mention: I've known a number of Eastern Slavs many of whom ended up in the US because they were dragooned as forced labor in WW2. Their attitudes about that experience were often counter-intuitive. At any rate, I'd be happy to bring in millions of Ukrainians, because they are nice people and the women are usually very ample and pretty. However, I don't think they'd actually be willing to do stoop labor or work in a slaughterhouse. On the contrary, they'll probably be more like the two adventuresses from Voronezh who were deeply enmeshed in the San Berdoo terrorist attack. So, no thanks.

    Replies: @Perspective

    “On the contrary, they’ll probably be more like the two adventuresses from Voronezh who were deeply enmeshed in the San Berdoo terrorist attack. So, no thanks.”

    It depends on how rigorous the filter is for new immigrants. It would be pointless to bring in Ukrainians for stoop labour when machines can mostly do the same thing now. Canada and the US could probably bring in 200k Ukrainians (skilled workers) each year for the next 5-8 years or so without breaking a sweat. White America could use a little demographic reinforcement.

    • Agree: Spmoore8
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Perspective

    My impression, from knowing a number of local Ukrainians is that we may have already gotten past the cream of the crop. The ones I knew 20 years ago generally had working class parents but went on to become professionals themselves: engineers, scientists, journalists, finance types. Now we seem to be getting more strippers.

    It's kind of like what Joel Klein wrote about Indians in his hometown of Edison, NJ: when the first few came, and they were scientists and engineers, he and his neighbors figured India was full of geniuses. Then when later immigrants were lower down the totem pole, they started to realize why India was so poor.

  224. @Flip
    @SPMoore8

    Ford was mentioned favorably in Mein Kampf.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ron Unz

    Actually, Lenin and the early Bolsheviks considered Ford as one of the world’s greatest revolutionary heroes.

    As most of you should probably know, mass industrialization was the absolutely top-priority Bolshevik policy. And the Bolsheviks actually called their industrial policy “Fordism”…

  225. @TheJester
    iSteve,

    Excellent observations ... observing rather than just seeing.

    My current neighborhood in Northern Virginia is being "Hindified". Not sure of the reasons; and not sure how bad it will have to get for us to leave.

    They used to live further east. Regardless, they bring their culture with them. The men dress Western; the women dress ethnic. I've been told that this is a way of keeping the women under control. They frequent the ever-present Hindi restaurants popping up around the shopping centers. (How did all of these people get visas? Are they all here on H-1s? How can this include the restaurant owners and staff?)

    A close friend of ours (a Cambodian woman) works in one of the more popular pizza parlors. She does not have nice things to say about the Hindis. We live in a multi-national community but she singles them out. She says the men constantly complain; they are abusive; nothing is ever right ... wanting compensation with free drinks, etc.. They run up a $60 bill and leave a $1 tip if that. She loathes watching a Hindi walk through the door. Nothing but extra work and trouble for nothing. Is she racist or simply observant ... from experience?

    I am in IT and I have my own stories. I would agree with our Cambodian friend. I would also single the Hindis out as having an alien culture and religion that will never successfully integrate into our common culture. (How could they integrate with their caste system?) To them, we are just a trading entrepôt for feeding IT revenue back to the home folks in Mumbai.

    How come I did not get to vote about open borders? And how come I did not get to vote about which cultures/backgrounds would get in and which would not? I have my preferences. Why didn't any of them matter?

    Replies: @biz

    Hmm, Hindus leave small tips? It is hard for me to get worked up about that with what Islamists are up to these days.

  226. @Lot
    @AndrewR


    Why would a fourth or greater generation “Pole”, with no real connection to Poland or Polish culture, want to live in a tiny enclave of Detroit?
     
    Well actually many did want to stay, and stayed quite a while longer than Detroit whites did because they did like living among similar people.

    Another reason is they physical city. 1880-1950 American whites sacrificed to build their cities to last a long time, unlike the cheaper-built post-war suburbs.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @AndrewR

    Well they didn’t have to leave. The old people died, there weren’t enough young people to buy the homes and other ethnic groups moved in. Or am I mistaken?

  227. @Lot
    @Ron Unz

    There's also the fact that 20 seconds on Google shows that Mr. Revusky is a computer programmer living in Spain. He has his own website saying this, as well as contributions under his name to open source software projects.

    As to the wisdom of publishing 9-11 truthers, I am dubious. I like that there is an open internet where they have very low barriers to sharing their ideas. I also like the purely technical aspects of unz.com. I like a lot of the content. I like what you did with unz.org as well.

    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.



    endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer “guilt by association” by sharing a website with this other material
     
    It isn't our comments that suffer guilt by association, but your regular writers, and more so their ideas.

    I don’t necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely “conspiracy theories” fall into that category
     
    Where you are coy about your views, what you publish can certainly produce reasonable inferences. For example, on the issue of The Israel Lobby Menace, your writers certainly have non-mainstream views, at least in the United States. But there is another set of unpopular views about Israel that you do not publish, though Steve, usually with some sarcasm, semi-endorses: Israel as model for the USA. Is there really much MSM defense of Israel's settlements? Its Gaza policy? Of the many in Israel to the right of Bibi?

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Jonathan Revusky

    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.

    Well, rightly or wrongly, the definition of “mainstream” in our society is someone being on TeeVee, or failing that, at least regularly mentioned in the WSJ-NYT or other major publications.

    I’ve seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky, and over the years she’s been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a “9-11 Truther” the appointment was pulled. However, he’s still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    Certainly there people, and (I’d suspect) lots of other “Truthers” are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger. My impression is that there are all sorts of “conspiracy websites” out there with enormously greater traffic than the racialist websites.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, no dog in this, just a quick point. Many folks (including me) dismiss truthers, birthers, Moon landing hoaxers, et. al, on various grounds. Still, those same skeptics will readily believe, and psychologically vest in, and propagate ideas that are plain nonsense, readily questionable and even readily disprovable by simple observation.

    , @Nico
    @Ron Unz

    If I read you right, "Truth"ers aren't mainstream, but they're on TeeVee often enough, they aren't exactly marginalized to the degree they would like people to think they are, and they certainly have plenty of outlets to vent their silliness. Certainly more so than the dreaded "racialists." So frankly, in my mind, that only deepens the mystery of why one would consider it good charity to offer them an additional voice simply for the sake of offering a "voice for the unheard."

    Of course you have the right to give a platform to whomever you want, but I do find the "Truth"ers a rather curious fit.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a “9-11 Truther” ... However, he’s still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.
     
    He may or may not have signed a single Truther petition years ago. He denies he did. Seems pretty easy to put someone's name on one.

    That is not why his appointment was rejected, rather he made too many extreme-left attacks on Republicans.

    Certainly there people, and (I’d suspect) lots of other “Truthers” are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger.
     
    I don't know exactly what you mean by "racialist." I am not aware of anyone else who uses that term.

    Your general point, as I think I understand it, is just plain wrong.

    If "racialist" means "race realist" or "people who believe there are genetic racial differences in IQ and criminal impulsiveness" then we are absolutely more mainstream than 9-11 truthers.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.
     
    I am aware of the efforts to marginalize us, and their fair degree of success. But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.

    There is also the fact that the most influential judge in America, Richard Posner, is a realist. Are their any truther circuit judges of any stature?

    Maybe, like race realists, 9-11 Truthers are trying to advance their cause, often quietly to avoid taboos and offense on a very touchy subject. I am not aware of any evidence for this.

    As for the ISIS beheading videos being fake, wouldn't that also require that the many ISIS social media accounts and propaganda video statements be fakes as well? If not, why would they not disavow fakes designed to smear them? Also, what happened to the Western hostages who were the subjects of the fake beheading videos? Quietly shot in the back of the head later on? In witness protection?

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @5371

    , @Jonathan Revusky
    @Ron Unz


    I’ve seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky,
     
    I don't know what exact arguments Naomi Wolf makes. Probably the same as me. My argument is: just watch one of them!

    http://libyanwarthetruth.com/isis-beheading-video-libya-hoax

    Well, I also made a separate argument in my first essay, which is simply that a political movement does not typically make political propaganda films designed to portray themselves as comic book villains. They typically portray themselves as sweetness and light and demonize their enemies. I suggested that this basic consideration should raise alarm bells in a person with any reasonable level of BDQ (Bullshit Detection Quotient).

    What is funny (though not exactly "ha ha" funny) is that in the article (the first I wrote on this site) in which I outlined the above, there were various commenters who were willing to argue on an a priori basis that these beheading videos must be authentic, while admitting that they had not watched one. And this, when I linked the above video in the article.

    So these people would openly decline to watch the video and then, argue, ostensibly trying to convince me, somebody who, of course DID watch the video, that the video was real. I thought that was quite extraordinary.

    and over the years she’s been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.
     
    Yes, but one should note that Naomi Wolf's status as a "feminist public intellectual" was established prior to her telling the truth about these fake videos.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a “9-11 Truther” the appointment was pulled. However, he’s still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.
     
    My understanding is that Van Jones was driven out of the Obama administration because he had earlier signed a petition calling for a new investigation of 9/11. They made an example of him.

    My sense is that he got back into public visibility by publicly (and maybe privately, though we would not observe that...) grovelling quite a bit. If he had simply stuck to his guns and said: "Screw you all, I signed the petition and I would sign it again because there damn well is need for a new investigation". In that case, he would have been banished to the outer darkness. He groveled enough and showed he had learned his lesson, not to touch the third rail. Also, one might suspect that there is not an over-supply of highly intelligent, well spoken blacks to put on the TV, so once he assured them he would not go off the reservation, they let him back into that world.

    Maybe I'm wrong on that last analysis of Van Jones, but that's my read of the situation. The signing of the petition signaled that he was not "ideologically reliable" so he was initially punished, then he recanted and convinced them that he was, or at least, in the future would be ideologically reliable. And now he's back in public view.
  228. @Ron Unz
    @Svigor


    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.
     
    Ha, ha---I'm afraid not... And as only the most dim-witted commenters haven't already realized, I don't necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely "conspiracy theories" fall into that category...

    However, I'll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I'm pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    Frankly, I don't know the truth of these conspiracy matters. I've been busy with other things and have never really investigated them. But the questions raised seem like interesting and important ones to me, and I think it might be nice if other people did bother looking into them more carefully, which is more likely to happen if they're conveniently available on my webzine.

    Now admittedly, there's a sharp division of opinion on my decision. On the one hand, various anonymous racialist commenters are clearly concerned that their endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer "guilt by association" by sharing a website with this other material. And on the other hand, there's that elite establishment friend of mine, whose own boldface friends are regularly quoted on the front page of the NYT/WSJ and who has a very different perspective.

    So whose judgment on these publication matters should I regard as carrying more weight? Such a difficult choice...

    Replies: @Lot, @Nico, @biz, @iffen, @Hepp

    Let me save you the time. I’ve looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.

    There is no purpose in being fringe for the sake of being fringe. That is a juvenile aesthetic like the goth kids in South Park. Concentrate on ideas that are out of the mainstream but are actually interesting / plausible.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @biz

    The only conspiracy theory in US history that seems plausible to me is that JE Hoover kept himself in power for so long with the FBI by having files on so many politicians. Not just staying as head of the agency, but keeping it well budgeted and aligned with his personal, somewhat Nixonian-center-right personal politics.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Almost Missouri

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @biz

    Jack Ruby blamed LBJ for JFK's assassination.

    Must've been a conspiracy theorist.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYgJy98doaI

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @biz

    The House Select Committee on Assassinations found a conspiracy behind the JFK assassination.

    Lots of CIA agents were found to have been associates with Oswald.

    Antonio Vecenia was shot in the head after testifying about this.

    DA Jim Garrison did an investigation into this. The CIA openly admits that they spying on him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvdS-1dcVxw

    , @Ron Unz
    @biz


    Let me save you the time. I’ve looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.
     
    Well, I really need to get back to my own work, but as a closing comment I'll make one more overall point.

    I'm not too familiar with "biz", but a quick look at his commenting history seems to indicate he's some ignorant Jewish neocon nitwit who recently starting hanging out here, and his opinion isn't worth anything.

    On the other hand, the general point he raises is an important one. To some extent, accepting the possible reality of "conspiracy theories" is a bifurcated all or nothing verdict. If you believe that only one or two of them are true, you're faced with the massive implausibility of how the MSM could have possibly covered them up for so many years or decades. The argument from presumption is a very powerful one.

    However, once you start to accept that a consider number of these "conspiracy theories" are true, then the argument from MSM silence completely disappears, and it becomes very possible, even likely that numerous others are true as well. To use the most extreme example, if JFK was killed by a "conspiracy"---maybe one organized by LBJ---and the MSM covered it up for 50 years, then you'd have to admit that the MSM could cover up anything else, absolutely anything else. This doesn't necessarily mean that any other particular conspiracy is true, but it does mean that you should be very cautious about just dismissing them out of hand. And given the very long list of "big ones," it seems likely that many, perhaps even most are true.

    I was arguing exactly this point a week or two ago with a skeptical mainstream friend of mine, and the analogy I used was the Bill Cosby case. Over the years, I'd occasionally seen tiny items buried in the NYT about some woman here or there accusing Cosby of drugging and raping her, and although I never really knew what to think, I leaned towards skepticism. After all I said, Cosby was a big celebrity, and if there were any solid basis for the charges, surely they'd be on the front page instead and would have gotten much more MSM coverage.

    Then, over the last year, one thing led to another, and now something like 87 separate women have come forward, accusing Cosby of drugging and raping them. I really haven't paid any attention to the case, but based on those numbers I'd say I'm 100% certain that most or nearly all of the accusations are true. As Stalin said, quantity has a quality of its own.

    So the point with "conspiracy theories" long ignored or dismissed by the MSM is that there are so *many* individual ones, each separately backed by persuasive evidence or highly regarded proponents, that the general MSM credibility against them totally dissipates, and in many or even most cases, that's really the only argument against them. So that I'd guess that a pretty large fraction of the more heavily promoted ones are more or less true.

    Replies: @biz, @Mr. Anon

  229. @peterike
    @Dirk Dagger

    Lol! That BET award speech is one of the silliest things ever. Just nonsense, top to bottom. And it would take ten thousand words to untangle the knots of idiocy binding it all tightly together. Such is the power of mindless cant when backed up by the Narrative.

    Oh, and that Jesse Williams? Yeah, he's really black, gosh is he ever.

    http://blameebro.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/o-JESSE-WILLIAMS-facebook.jpg

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Brutusale

    Guys just of the plane from Nairobi don’t have to defend their blackness. The highest of yellas, on the other hand, have to prove it to their brutharen.

  230. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Marcus

    Would you want to live next to the douchebags who flock to most gentrification projects?

    Replies: @Marcus

    Depends: are blacks, “hispanics,” etc. the other options?

  231. @Lot
    @Lot

    A thought experiment.

    If the Detroit of 1950 were plopped onto the ruins of Detroit 2016, Detroit would be the city with the 2nd largest white population (1.54 million) in the USA, behind only New York City, and far ahead of Los Angeles 2016, which has 1.1 million non-hispanic whites, and nearly double Chicago, 860,000.

    Instead, Detroit is not even in the top 100 cities in the USA for white population, and has fewer whites than many of its individual suburbs, like Livonia, Troy, and Royal Oak.

    As for blaming the Jews, it was anti-Semite* Henry Ford, eager importer into Michigan of cheap black southern labor, and the end of the Eastern Euro immigration that he also supported that helped make mid-century Detroit one of the most beautiful and prosperous cities in the world to a bombed out Somalia Inferior.

    *I am allowed to call him an anti-semite without offense here? Was supporting Hitler in the 30's and publishing/subsidizing The International Jew enough to deserve the label?

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @ben tillman, @Brutusale

    You mean Adolf Hitler, Time magazine’s 1938 Person of the Year?

    I’m not defending Ford from charges of not being a fan of the Chosen, but being a Hitler fanboy in the 30s wasn’t quite as lonely a place as you might think.

  232. @Steve Sailer
    @Flip

    And in "Brave New World." He was a big deal.

    Replies: @Steve from Detroit, @Dave Pinsen

    In all of its facets, the history of Henry Ford is much more complex than is readily discussed. This, from the NYT, as to why he might not have liked bankers:

    The 1921 business depression brought the Ford Motor Company its most severe financial crisis, and served to demonstrate both Mr. Ford’s antipathy to bankers, and his resourcefulness. When it became acute the company had obligations of $58,000,000 due between Jan. 1 and April 18, and only $20,000,000 with which to meet them.

    Investment bankers were convinced that he would have to go to them “hat in hand,” and an officer of one large New York bank journeyed to Detroit to offer Mr. Ford a large loan on the condition that a representative of the bankers be appointed treasurer of the Ford Motor Company with full control over its finances. Mr. Ford silently handed him his hat.

    He loaded up Ford dealers throughout the country with all the cars they could possibly handle and compelled them to pay cash, thereby adding nearly $25,000,000 to the funds in hand. Then, by purchasing a railroad of his own, the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton, and by other economies, he cut one-third from the time his raw materials and finished products were in transit. Thereby he was able to decrease by one-third the inventory of goods he needed on hand for uninterrupted production, and to release $28,000,000 from capital funds to ready cash.

    The full article: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0730.html

    The Henry Ford Museum is extraordinary. Just one example: In the 1940s, he had led the design of a car made with soybeans (formed into a type of plastic).

  233. All three of the paragraphs in my preceding comment should be italicized.

    Oh, and I forgot, there is a bit of irony in Steve’s last post. The American brand of charcoal, Kingsford charcoal, was originally started by Henry Ford and, IIRC, his brother-in-law.

  234. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Maybe one difference between Detroit and Pittsburgh was in the unions?

    The UAW was quite modern liberal on race, led by a German Protestant socialist, while the steelworker's union was not.

    But I've only spent one night in Pittsburgh and never got closer to Detroit than the Oakland Hills Country Club for the 1985 U.S. Open, so I'm pretty clueless.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    You may have a point about the UAW and the “Treaty of Detroit” era in the 1950s. Also remember that the Ford Foundation’s all out embrace of Cultural Marxism as soon as Henry Ford was dead. Last white flight was really easy in Detroit where it meant just literally moving one exit down the numerous interstates.

    Also, steel making is inherently dangerous and requires workers to trust and look out for one another. Perhaps its requirements for greater solidarity had an impact on the surrounding community. A single idiot goof-off may hurt the auto company and eventually the union, but won’t get you maimed or killed.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Interesting idea. Screwing up in a blast furnace could get your fellow workers killed. Screwing up on an auto assembly line could get the customer killed, but that's not likely to be much skin off your nose or your coworkers.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  235. @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    You may have a point about the UAW and the "Treaty of Detroit" era in the 1950s. Also remember that the Ford Foundation's all out embrace of Cultural Marxism as soon as Henry Ford was dead. Last white flight was really easy in Detroit where it meant just literally moving one exit down the numerous interstates.

    Also, steel making is inherently dangerous and requires workers to trust and look out for one another. Perhaps its requirements for greater solidarity had an impact on the surrounding community. A single idiot goof-off may hurt the auto company and eventually the union, but won't get you maimed or killed.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Interesting idea. Screwing up in a blast furnace could get your fellow workers killed. Screwing up on an auto assembly line could get the customer killed, but that’s not likely to be much skin off your nose or your coworkers.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting theory, but Cleveland and Gary are/were also steel towns, and they didn't do so well...

    Topography seems to have more empirical validity, though I don't see why it should.

  236. @V Vega
    @Clifford Brown


    Is there any evidence that the German Ford plant was manufacturing weaponry prior to 1939 when Ford had actual control of the operation? The Nazis were extreme economic nationalists who did not take kindly to foreign subsidiaries. The exploitation of slave labor occurred after 1941 when the Nazis were running the factory.
     
    Do you ever consider consulting Google for the answer to your queries, instead of asking it here, as if not asking meant you'd have to shlep to the library? There's tons of info you can get on Henry Ford in about two seconds, yet you choose to ask the question here, and wait for the answer like a mental patient.

    Additionally, Jews were the most despised race around the world at that time. Ford being antisemetic was no big deal back then. That is, he did not stand out from the crowd. He would be one of millions.

    Replies: @Clifford Brown

    I noticed you did not answer my question. The best I can determine is that prior to the Nazi takeover of the factory, the Ford plant manufactured 1000 trucks and engine parts for the German military, but not specifically any weaponry.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Clifford Brown

    Amazingly the Germans thought the benefits of military production should accrue to German firms. What man today can comprehend such insanity?

  237. @anon
    @Zach

    The Chinese are not a bunch of saps like the western countries are. They don't feel any need to let the dregs of Africa into their lands unlike Europe. You had probably BETTER have a PHD if you are an African and want to go there.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Anon, China has it’s eyes on Africa, but not its populace. Africa is land rich and mineral rich if you have the technology and money to mine and farm. Saw a documentary about Chinese development in an African country, move in, move people out and fence. China sends a lot of students to the US for their doctorates, a walk around the University at Buffalo campus will show you that. My opinion, they covet the land mass, have no need for the people.

  238. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Is there any proof or study that blacks and Mexicans have more clinical psychopaths (I.e. those who score 30 or above on the psychopathy checklist) as a proportion of the population compared to whites or Asians? How many swindlers and con men and money launderers do blacks and Mexicans have per capita compared to Chinese and whites?

  239. Tex says:
    @Nick Diaz
    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as "internal" refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.

    I actually agree that it is a bad idea to grant refugee status to people who's lives are threatened because they might have committed crimes in their native countries, but trying to use the internment of Americans as an argument for whether foreign citizens should be granted refugee status or not is retarded.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @ben tillman, @Mr. Anon, @Tex

    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as “internal” refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.

    You are truly an ignorant, vulgar person.

    http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Refugees_During_the_Civil_War

    http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=6389&type=Time+Period&item=Civil+War+through+Reconstruction+%281861+-+1874%29

    http://oklahomagenealogy.com/indian-refugees-civil-war.htm

    • Replies: @woodNfish
    @Tex

    While I agree with you that you can be an internal refugee your sources suck as there has never been a civil war in this country.

    There was a war of secession where the Southern states wanted to leave the union and had every constitutional right to do so, but there was never a war to take over the government. That and ending slavery were nothing more than Lincoln's Northern propaganda to justify an unconstitutional war which the North started, and Lincoln's suspension of the constitution.

  240. @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.
     
    Well, rightly or wrongly, the definition of "mainstream" in our society is someone being on TeeVee, or failing that, at least regularly mentioned in the WSJ-NYT or other major publications.

    I've seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky, and over the years she's been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a "9-11 Truther" the appointment was pulled. However, he's still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    Certainly there people, and (I'd suspect) lots of other "Truthers" are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger. My impression is that there are all sorts of "conspiracy websites" out there with enormously greater traffic than the racialist websites.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.

    Replies: @JackOH, @Nico, @Lot, @Jonathan Revusky

    Ron, no dog in this, just a quick point. Many folks (including me) dismiss truthers, birthers, Moon landing hoaxers, et. al, on various grounds. Still, those same skeptics will readily believe, and psychologically vest in, and propagate ideas that are plain nonsense, readily questionable and even readily disprovable by simple observation.

  241. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    @Svigor

    What would DC do in the face of a broad tax revolt from whites?

    "Print" more money, at first. Start arresting people and making examples of them second. The tax revolt thing has been tried by some fringe types. You'd have to overcome looking like a lunatic to get people to buy into it. And then you'd need to get millions and millions to have an impact.

    Except, that won't work, because they'll just garnish wages from the employers of the millions and millions. Milton Friedman set up the apparatus to defeat you back in WWII.

    Broad labor revolts?

    Yes, you can revolt - except that then you'll be replaced by an illegal, or an H-1B, or a robot, to name three of the many possibilities. And how are you going to organize the labor revolts? You won't get the media to publicize what you're doing, FB and Twitter and Google will likely shut down attempts to organize anything that will cut into THEIR labor, etc. And the unions? Sheeit....

    Millions encamped around the Beltway?

    No you're getting somewhere! So, who wants to go camping around DC in summer? Or better still in winter? Who wants to stay there long enough to have an impact?

    And honestly, if that many white people show up, you can be goddamned sure the army (or the Social Security Administration) will be called in to start shooting people, as you'll all be classified as hate group members deserving of death. Honestly, do you think Obama or Hillary or El jeffe Jeb or Ryan or McConnell or Reid or Pelosi would care if they could exterminate a few million pesky white people at one go? Hell, the goddamn media would come out and declare the people ordering the massacres the Greatest Americans of All Time if they did that, and they wouldn't even have to have their corporate masters kick their asses to do it that time, they'd do it out of the ecstasy they'd feel.

    And, oh by the way, that gets back to violence anyway.

    ...

    Look, we've been outmaneuvered on all fronts, and it happened a long time ago. They control the government, both parties, the media, the financial institutions, the schools & universities, and pretty much anything else you can think of. These were long-term low-key threats that people have only just started waking up to.

    And now that people have woken up to it, who's the best they can come up with to fight for their cause? Donald Fucking Trump. He's done a masterful job of getting himself this far, but (a) do you really trust him, (b) do you really think he can get the job done, and (c) who is going to help him get the job done that isn't really on the payroll of the people that got us into this mess?

    ...

    As for a billion dollars ... didn't Obama spend more than that in 2008? The other side controls pretty much all the big money out there, plus they own the media, plus they own the schools, plus they've been conditioning people to just smile and fucking take it for decades. As I said in my earlier comment, an Afghan jihadi kills a bunch of Hispanic gays, and white Republican men get blamed in all the PRIDE parades. How are you going to overcome that kind of conditioning? How are you going to overcome that kind of reckless, arrogant stupidity? It's only gotten worse since 9/11, and even then we had to swallow a bunch of "Islam is the religion of peace" bullshit from our allegedly gung-ho President.

    Seriously, if you've got the means, try and immigrate someplace where they might hold the line, Denmark, or where ever. The American Dream of my forefathers is already dead. The body is just thrashing around now in protest against the inevitable.

    Replies: @Lurker

    I still have hope!

    But, as per your comment: over here despite the Brexit vote the media narrative is already of some kind of coup (if only!) where the majority vote is conveniently overlooked or nuanced out of contention. The brain washing goes deep. There is also an obtuse refusal to look at why different areas voted as they did or the varying turnout. Never mind the demographics involved (apart from age).

  242. @Clifford Brown
    @V Vega

    I noticed you did not answer my question. The best I can determine is that prior to the Nazi takeover of the factory, the Ford plant manufactured 1000 trucks and engine parts for the German military, but not specifically any weaponry.

    Replies: @Lurker

    Amazingly the Germans thought the benefits of military production should accrue to German firms. What man today can comprehend such insanity?

  243. Pittsburgh being strongly ethnic German helped it weather the travails of the second half of the twentieth century better than Detroit and Cleveland – both of which had large German populations but were not as Teutonic as Pittsburgh was. While Pittsburgh had the other white ethnicities too, Germans were clearly the dominant group.

    Also, Pittsburgh’s universities helped. Detroit never was known for higher education ; Wayne State has never been a particularly prestigious school, and University of Detroit-Mercy is small.

  244. @candid_observer
    Steve, OT, but you really should have a post displaying the chart in this article from the WaPo:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/27/the-losers-have-revolted-and-brexit-is-only-the-beginning/

    It's as sharp a graphic of the horrible economic impact of globalism on Western countries as I've ever seen.

    Who are the obvious losers? Exactly the middle and working classes in Western countries. Everybody else -- everybody else -- is winning, big time.

    It's almost amazing to me that we have not seen a graph like this before.

    Trump should show this chart on a screen, point out with a laser the huge gap in the middle, and say to his audience, "This is you. This is what the elitists and globalists have done to you. Do you think you deserve this?"

    The elites have a lot of explaining to do. It is beyond contemptible that they would try to depict the middle and working class people as racists and xenophobes for having a problem with globalism.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @candid_observer

    One further observation regarding this graph is how clearly it shows the leapfrogging loyalties of the globalists.

    They leap over the backs of middle/working classes in Western countries to serve the interests of everyone outside of those Western countries.

  245. @Erik Sieven
    @anon

    mass immigration is bad but wwII was worse

    Replies: @SFG, @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad

    mass immigration is bad but wwII was worse

    Nope. Exactly backwards. Mass immigration is much, much worse.

    WWII was very bad for *individuals* of a particular generation. As an individual suffering through WWII, my chance of dying, loss of family and friends, deprivation is definitely worse than what most people suffer from under mass immigration–hassle, loss of jobs, having to leave an old neighborhood, drunk drivers, higher crime, crappy schools, more disorder. Essentially the immediate death, destruction and suffering of the War is much worse.

    But the war *ended*. Millions lost their lives. Millions more lost family, friends. But in 1945, all European *nations* were still alive–even Russia, Poland, Germany. Even the Jews that Hitler had tried to exterminate were still a people and went on immediately to found their own nation pretty much as a result. All the *peoples*, all the *nations* of Europe survived and were living on. And in fact within a few years were living in unprecedented prosperity.

    In contrast the disaster of mass immigration does not end. Not in a few years. Not after a generation passes away. Never. Not even if the immigration stopped tomorrow. The damage will live on … forever. Mass immigration is much more akin to what happens when you lose a war and lose your homeland. Mass immigration is not just killing off individuals but killing off the *nations* of the West which WWII did not.

    • Agree: Nico
  246. @Steve Sailer
    @SFG

    I don't know if this WASP v. Catholic distinction in propensity for white flight is all that tenable but I've been kicking it around for awhile.

    The idea is that British-Americans have a frontier tradition, and perhaps some of the Protestant Continentals, while most of the Catholic groups had an urban tradition: the Irish believed in taking over urban institutions like the police and the Catholic Church. Italians like high density living near their relatives. I don't know stereotypes about lower profile Catholics like Poles.

    Here's a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it's ethnic, perhaps it's the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it's economic.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Brutusale, @AnotherDad, @Muse, @biz

    I have an aunt who married a Pole from a Pittsburgh suburb. The whole extended family has been there 70 years, all the men working at the local steel mill. The mill is gone, but they’re all still there.

    Eastwood’s intransigent character in Gran Torino may have lived in Detroit, but his name was Walt Kowalski.

  247. @TheJester
    @wren

    If only the public had known the real Obama ... "a street kid from Jakarta" with Muslim relatives and friends studying the Koran in an Indonesian elementary school, committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from "brown" and "black" countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    I unfortunately "drank the Kool-Aid" that he was a Black from Chicago working to reconcile the historic animosity between the American White and Black communities. Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM. The MSM seems to have intentionally misrepresented or otherwise camouflaged Obama's background. We are now seeing the same sleight-of-hand with the Hildebeast.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Old fogey, @Gato de la Biblioteca, @woodNfish, @Ace, @Jacques Sheete

    At least you are able to learn a lesson from your stupidity and willingness to let the LLSM lead you by the nose. Next time do your own research!

  248. @Tex
    @Nick Diaz


    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen. There is not such thing as “internal” refugees as far as granting or receiving refugee status. Refugee status is not even granted by states, but only by national/federal governments.
     
    You are truly an ignorant, vulgar person.

    http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Refugees_During_the_Civil_War

    http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=6389&type=Time+Period&item=Civil+War+through+Reconstruction+%281861+-+1874%29

    http://oklahomagenealogy.com/indian-refugees-civil-war.htm

    Replies: @woodNfish

    While I agree with you that you can be an internal refugee your sources suck as there has never been a civil war in this country.

    There was a war of secession where the Southern states wanted to leave the union and had every constitutional right to do so, but there was never a war to take over the government. That and ending slavery were nothing more than Lincoln’s Northern propaganda to justify an unconstitutional war which the North started, and Lincoln’s suspension of the constitution.

  249. @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.
     
    Well, rightly or wrongly, the definition of "mainstream" in our society is someone being on TeeVee, or failing that, at least regularly mentioned in the WSJ-NYT or other major publications.

    I've seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky, and over the years she's been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a "9-11 Truther" the appointment was pulled. However, he's still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    Certainly there people, and (I'd suspect) lots of other "Truthers" are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger. My impression is that there are all sorts of "conspiracy websites" out there with enormously greater traffic than the racialist websites.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.

    Replies: @JackOH, @Nico, @Lot, @Jonathan Revusky

    If I read you right, “Truth”ers aren’t mainstream, but they’re on TeeVee often enough, they aren’t exactly marginalized to the degree they would like people to think they are, and they certainly have plenty of outlets to vent their silliness. Certainly more so than the dreaded “racialists.” So frankly, in my mind, that only deepens the mystery of why one would consider it good charity to offer them an additional voice simply for the sake of offering a “voice for the unheard.”

    Of course you have the right to give a platform to whomever you want, but I do find the “Truth”ers a rather curious fit.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Nico


    If I read you right, “Truth”ers aren’t mainstream, but they’re on TeeVee often enough, they aren’t exactly marginalized to the degree they would like people to think they are, and they certainly have plenty of outlets to vent their silliness. Certainly more so than the dreaded “racialists.” So frankly, in my mind, that only deepens the mystery of why one would consider it good charity to offer them an additional voice simply for the sake of offering a “voice for the unheard.”
     
    No, that's not correct. "Truthers" are *massively* marginalized in the media...it's just that "racialists" are even more marginalized, maybe by a factor of 10x. Perhaps coincidentally my webzine runs something like 10x more "racialist" than "truther" material.
  250. @Ron Unz
    @Svigor


    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.
     
    Ha, ha---I'm afraid not... And as only the most dim-witted commenters haven't already realized, I don't necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely "conspiracy theories" fall into that category...

    However, I'll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I'm pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    Frankly, I don't know the truth of these conspiracy matters. I've been busy with other things and have never really investigated them. But the questions raised seem like interesting and important ones to me, and I think it might be nice if other people did bother looking into them more carefully, which is more likely to happen if they're conveniently available on my webzine.

    Now admittedly, there's a sharp division of opinion on my decision. On the one hand, various anonymous racialist commenters are clearly concerned that their endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer "guilt by association" by sharing a website with this other material. And on the other hand, there's that elite establishment friend of mine, whose own boldface friends are regularly quoted on the front page of the NYT/WSJ and who has a very different perspective.

    So whose judgment on these publication matters should I regard as carrying more weight? Such a difficult choice...

    Replies: @Lot, @Nico, @biz, @iffen, @Hepp

    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @iffen


    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?
     
    It's really not very complicated. Large-scale "conspiracies" or "cover-ups" can only be effectively maintained if their backers have substantial or (preferably) overwhelming control over the media. Thus, maintaining an anti-Jewish "conspiracy" is simply an impossibility in present-day America. A pro-Jewish "conspiracy" on the other hand, well...

    Since I have the impression that you're some sort of racialist, let's put it in terms that you might understand. Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?...

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @iffen, @Almost Missouri

  251. @JackOH
    @Gato de la Biblioteca

    "Radical and destructive." That's how I described my U. S. government about the time I thought about emigrating from the States. One thought experiment I used was something like: "How can you tell you're living in Nazi Germany or Bolshevik Russia?"--the caricatured societies we see on the Discovery channel? I concluded it's mostly very difficult, and you gotta make judgment calls about whether your government and your society have crossed some line in the sand.

    Our nearby state university's philosophy and English departments have been transformed into internal gay lobbies, and, in the process, academic laughingstocks. One traditionalist academic who attempted to publicly address how aberrant behavior was ruining collegiality and academic quality was mocked in the student newspaper, then ignored. So we've got drag queen shows, safe spaces, special pleading for the gays and lesbians, etc.

    " . . . [B]ig goddamned hate straight white men festival . . . ." You're not wrong, buddy, not wrong.

    Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca, @Anon

    This can be changed in one year by giving interviews to prospective students, asking them questions about social justice, and then not letting in the hardcore SJW types. Colleges don’t have to suffer this idiocy. Then can also refuse to renew tenure for their SJW profs.

  252. @Oldeguy
    @Lot

    This is the great untold saga of post WW2 America- the expulsion of millions of Whites of every ethnic heritage from the great American Inner Cities.
    The consequences are enormous both at the personal and societal levels. It frequently entailed trauma from which the victims never fully recovered; the victimized in life can never recover that unconscious sense of safety the never victimized possess.
    On a societal level, it meant the death of the genuine "neighborhood"- "vibrant" once meant a warm, mutually supportive community where you knew and could rely on those around you.
    Its destruction on a massive scale led us into the "cocooning" so ably outlined in Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467042812&sr=1-1&keywords=bowling+alone
    It is the Great Unmentionable Fact of modern America.

    Replies: @Johnny

    You need to read The Slaughter of Cities by E. Michael Jones. An excellent book that explains exactly what happened to the ethnic neighborhoods in the inner city after WWII.

  253. @Steve Sailer
    @Richard of Melbourne

    Somebody should paint a picture of Emma Lazarus carving the Zeroth Amendment to the Bill of Rights onto the Statue of Liberty straight from the mouth of God.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Henry Bowman, @E. Harding, @Eric Novak, @Bill Jones

    Hey Steve, article suggestion: a family history of your wife’s family’s time in Austin, including their escape to suburbia. The emptying out of whites on Chicago’s West Side in a decade is before my time and has only been recounted in legend and lore and only in bits over the decades. Many neighbors in my Portage Park neighborhood were refugees, but not many have wanted to discuss it. It’s a dark cloud. My wife and I recently met a guy in his 50s, in Durango, CO, who moved there from the W. Side in the ’70s and was eager to tell us the tale, although it’s worth noting that his family moved to the far suburbs on the edge of the cornfields before moving to the Golden West.

  254. @ben tillman
    @Nick Diaz


    Steve Sailer, you fucking IMBECILE, by definition a refugee is a foreign citizen.
     
    By definition, a refugee is someone who flees his home out of fear for his safety. The fact that you are used to hearing a word in one context doesn't mean it isn't the right word in another context. Steve is right to use this word.

    Replies: @Hacienda, @iSteveFan

    Ben, it’s like the use of the word alien. Many on the left don’t understand that alien doesn’t necessarily mean you are an extraterrestrial.

  255. @Kylie
    @SFG

    You think blacks and you [non-observant] Jews have it bad?

    I'm a white middle-class woman. You know, one of the group Whiskey is always railing against.* I'm expected to have drunk, wallowed in and douched with the Kool-Aid all the other white middle-class women have used. And when they realize I haven't, they turn on me. No solidarity or sororal loyalty for me. And frankly, that's a two-way street. I feel nothing but contempt and hostility toward them.

    I've always loved being female, never wanted to be anything else. But when I read about and listen to the sheer idiocy and lunacy most of that group spews, I don't even think of myself as a woman in the same sense that they are women.

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @iSteveFan, @Ace, @Mark2, @Monopthalmus

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Oh no. Don’t tell him that.

  256. @Ivy
    Guatemalan and other Central American refugees are victims of an influence that the NYT doesn't often discuss: the School of the Americas (see link below). They focus on the effects and not on causes, then look around for whom to blame.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation

    Replies: @Ace

    What influence is that? Point me to anything in the then curriculum of the SotA that lead to the results you imply.

  257. Ace says:
    @TheJester
    @wren

    If only the public had known the real Obama ... "a street kid from Jakarta" with Muslim relatives and friends studying the Koran in an Indonesian elementary school, committed to multiculturalism, committed to massive immigration from "brown" and "black" countries, committed to the elevation of LGBTQxyz lifestyles to a privileged and protected status, and committed to economic globalization benefiting Third-World counties at the expense of the United States, he would not have been elected president.

    I unfortunately "drank the Kool-Aid" that he was a Black from Chicago working to reconcile the historic animosity between the American White and Black communities. Voting for him was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and the end of my tolerance for the MSM. The MSM seems to have intentionally misrepresented or otherwise camouflaged Obama's background. We are now seeing the same sleight-of-hand with the Hildebeast.

    Replies: @YT Wurlitzer, @Old fogey, @Gato de la Biblioteca, @woodNfish, @Ace, @Jacques Sheete

    I don’t understand how you could have failed to be aware of Obama’s subversive background. His association with Wright and Ayers was well known before his first run for the presidency. Kudos for acknowledging your error but I just don’t understand how you could not have grasped the reality of our man. This article, just one that I pulled out of my files, was written six months before the 2008 election:

    It’s Barack, Like It or Not.” By David Limbaugh, Townhall.com, 4/25/08.

  258. White flight = internal displacement due to crime

    There’re a dozen dissertations to be made out of that idea. If I were a younger man, I would seriously consider it–although I’d have to be a wiser man to pull it off under current conditions, but I think it could be done.

  259. @Josh
    Steve, have you read the slaughterer of cities by e. Michael jones or not?

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Percy Gryce

    Jones is a Sailer-like figure, isn’t he? I have great sympathy for him, but he needs an editor badly.

  260. @ben tillman
    @Peter Johnson


    “Refugee” seems too strong a word for people who change neighborhood to avoid crime. Is there a better term?
     
    In a word, no.

    Replies: @Ace

    That is four words.

  261. Ace says:
    @Kylie
    @SFG

    You think blacks and you [non-observant] Jews have it bad?

    I'm a white middle-class woman. You know, one of the group Whiskey is always railing against.* I'm expected to have drunk, wallowed in and douched with the Kool-Aid all the other white middle-class women have used. And when they realize I haven't, they turn on me. No solidarity or sororal loyalty for me. And frankly, that's a two-way street. I feel nothing but contempt and hostility toward them.

    I've always loved being female, never wanted to be anything else. But when I read about and listen to the sheer idiocy and lunacy most of that group spews, I don't even think of myself as a woman in the same sense that they are women.

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @iSteveFan, @Ace, @Mark2, @Monopthalmus

    It’s the same with a lot of middle class men I know. I understand differences of opinion but many of their minds are just walled off. I once was chatting with a very decent but very liberal friend of mine about what we might do to get out of the wage squirrel cage. Before long he’d turned the conversation into the evils of corporations. I point out the shift in topic but it was a waste of time to pursue.

    Not sure if this is quite what you were discussing but few are the men I’ve known who considered military service even as a short-term option and the women were all fixated on abortion as a sacrament. In my opinion a normal man should be absolutely furious at the wide open border and cheapening of citizenship but I can count on only one had those who are. Who are these people?

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Ace

    Oh yes, I know there are plenty of white middle-class men who are as odiously leftist as the distaff side.

    And no matter how trim and fit they are, they always seem very unmanly to me.

    I totally agree that normal men should be furious at the open borders and cheapening of citizenship. But so should normal women.

  262. @Steve Sailer
    @SFG

    I don't know if this WASP v. Catholic distinction in propensity for white flight is all that tenable but I've been kicking it around for awhile.

    The idea is that British-Americans have a frontier tradition, and perhaps some of the Protestant Continentals, while most of the Catholic groups had an urban tradition: the Irish believed in taking over urban institutions like the police and the Catholic Church. Italians like high density living near their relatives. I don't know stereotypes about lower profile Catholics like Poles.

    Here's a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it's ethnic, perhaps it's the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it's economic.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Brutusale, @AnotherDad, @Muse, @biz

    Here’s a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it’s ethnic, perhaps it’s the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it’s economic.

    I think the topography angle is indeed pretty big.

    I grew up in Cincinnati with a hilly big river city topography similar to Pittsburgh. The hills and ridges break up neighbors and–much like military defense–give whites positions they can hold against the blacks. Cincinnati definitely did much better hold off sprawling ghettofication than its Ohio sister city Cleveland. (Where the blacks sprawled east across the lake plain to the hills–and nice suburbs–east of town.)

    The more natural terrain features the better. And the flat lake-plain cities like Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago are particularly vulnerable. You’ve talked a good bit about your wife’s family in Austin versus the good-whites in Oak Park, who created a successful barrier only because their “goodness” and architectural preservation somehow got them a look-the-other-way license to cheat on the open housing provisions. Unless you have something very special like that working for you, if you’re in a pancake flat area with blacks–or now Mexicans–you’re eventually going to be SOL.

    Of course Cincinnati–the city–in recent decades, after one of those phony BLMish incidents, riots, Soros astroturf and such, has headed downhill fast. I don’t live there, but i’m guessing the old German Catholic neighborhoods have failed–in part quality\size of housing stock–and whites have just thrown in the towel and fled the city. Still superior, i think to the lake plain cities and certainly St. Louis! But if a young white is contemplating starting out and building a life in the midwest, i think Pittsburgh is a much better bet.

    It’s too bad all the blacks can’t just all leave at least one metropolis–leaving the whites there bereft of the opportunity to do all that oppression, exploitation and appropriation and such that is apparently keeping us afloat.

  263. @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.
     
    Well, rightly or wrongly, the definition of "mainstream" in our society is someone being on TeeVee, or failing that, at least regularly mentioned in the WSJ-NYT or other major publications.

    I've seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky, and over the years she's been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a "9-11 Truther" the appointment was pulled. However, he's still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    Certainly there people, and (I'd suspect) lots of other "Truthers" are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger. My impression is that there are all sorts of "conspiracy websites" out there with enormously greater traffic than the racialist websites.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.

    Replies: @JackOH, @Nico, @Lot, @Jonathan Revusky

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a “9-11 Truther” … However, he’s still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    He may or may not have signed a single Truther petition years ago. He denies he did. Seems pretty easy to put someone’s name on one.

    That is not why his appointment was rejected, rather he made too many extreme-left attacks on Republicans.

    Certainly there people, and (I’d suspect) lots of other “Truthers” are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger.

    I don’t know exactly what you mean by “racialist.” I am not aware of anyone else who uses that term.

    Your general point, as I think I understand it, is just plain wrong.

    If “racialist” means “race realist” or “people who believe there are genetic racial differences in IQ and criminal impulsiveness” then we are absolutely more mainstream than 9-11 truthers.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.

    I am aware of the efforts to marginalize us, and their fair degree of success. But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.

    There is also the fact that the most influential judge in America, Richard Posner, is a realist. Are their any truther circuit judges of any stature?

    Maybe, like race realists, 9-11 Truthers are trying to advance their cause, often quietly to avoid taboos and offense on a very touchy subject. I am not aware of any evidence for this.

    As for the ISIS beheading videos being fake, wouldn’t that also require that the many ISIS social media accounts and propaganda video statements be fakes as well? If not, why would they not disavow fakes designed to smear them? Also, what happened to the Western hostages who were the subjects of the fake beheading videos? Quietly shot in the back of the head later on? In witness protection?

    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.
     
    You're just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous. Let's take Trump, whom you apparently admire and regard as the touchstone of media visibility.

    Surely you remember that just a few years ago Trump held a national press conference to declare that Obama's birth certificate was a fake and that Obama was probably born in Kenya or something? Personally, I very much doubt Obama was born outside the U.S., but that's clearly a super-conspiracy-theory, and Trump is its most prominent national advocate.

    Now Trump is obviously just a loudmouth, but for many years his closest political advisor and strategist has been Roger Stone, who is treated *very* respectfully in the NYT and the rest of the MSM. Surely you must be aware that just a few years ago Stone published a book called "LBJ: The Man Who Killed Kennedy," in which he provided a massive accumulation of evidence, much of it based on his personal knowledge, that LBJ was the mastermind behind JFK's assassination. Offhand, I found it reasonably persuasive, with the biggest problem being that Stone's a notoriously slippery political operative, so perhaps he just invented some of the factual details in his book.

    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.

    Thus, both your hero Trump and his closest political advisor are ultra-conspiracy-people. Or weren't you aware of this before you published your silly comment?

    Replies: @Lot, @wren, @ben tillman

    , @5371
    @Lot

    "Racialist" was the standard term in the English language, until it was replaced by the more illiterate and opprobrious "racist".

  264. @biz
    @Ron Unz

    Let me save you the time. I've looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.

    There is no purpose in being fringe for the sake of being fringe. That is a juvenile aesthetic like the goth kids in South Park. Concentrate on ideas that are out of the mainstream but are actually interesting / plausible.

    Replies: @Lot, @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Ron Unz

    The only conspiracy theory in US history that seems plausible to me is that JE Hoover kept himself in power for so long with the FBI by having files on so many politicians. Not just staying as head of the agency, but keeping it well budgeted and aligned with his personal, somewhat Nixonian-center-right personal politics.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Lot

    What about Operation Northwoods?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_6CAKfs8E8

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Lot

    NSA spied on Congressmen, Judge Alito, General Petraeus, intelligence officials, and (then) Senator Obama.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6m1XbWOfVk

    Hmmm....................

    No such thing as a conspiracy.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Lot


    "Hoover kept himself in power for so long with the FBI by having files on so many politicians"
     
    Inasmuch as the FBI's mission is to keep track of the country's criminals, Hoover might say he was just doing his job.
  265. @Nico
    @Ron Unz

    If I read you right, "Truth"ers aren't mainstream, but they're on TeeVee often enough, they aren't exactly marginalized to the degree they would like people to think they are, and they certainly have plenty of outlets to vent their silliness. Certainly more so than the dreaded "racialists." So frankly, in my mind, that only deepens the mystery of why one would consider it good charity to offer them an additional voice simply for the sake of offering a "voice for the unheard."

    Of course you have the right to give a platform to whomever you want, but I do find the "Truth"ers a rather curious fit.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    If I read you right, “Truth”ers aren’t mainstream, but they’re on TeeVee often enough, they aren’t exactly marginalized to the degree they would like people to think they are, and they certainly have plenty of outlets to vent their silliness. Certainly more so than the dreaded “racialists.” So frankly, in my mind, that only deepens the mystery of why one would consider it good charity to offer them an additional voice simply for the sake of offering a “voice for the unheard.”

    No, that’s not correct. “Truthers” are *massively* marginalized in the media…it’s just that “racialists” are even more marginalized, maybe by a factor of 10x. Perhaps coincidentally my webzine runs something like 10x more “racialist” than “truther” material.

  266. @iffen
    @Ron Unz

    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?

    It’s really not very complicated. Large-scale “conspiracies” or “cover-ups” can only be effectively maintained if their backers have substantial or (preferably) overwhelming control over the media. Thus, maintaining an anti-Jewish “conspiracy” is simply an impossibility in present-day America. A pro-Jewish “conspiracy” on the other hand, well…

    Since I have the impression that you’re some sort of racialist, let’s put it in terms that you might understand. Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?…

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Ron Unz

    What are your thoughts on the Brexit?

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @iffen
    @Ron Unz

    Since I am some sort of racialist, I would say your conspiracy fails in that you would play hell finding thousands of brilliant black students that are excluded from educational institutions. Racialist are very much aware that any above average black has a free ride in the educational industry. If they are way above average, the elite institutions literally fight over them. Working class whites are the ones being f*** over in the educational racket. I don't like your condescending tone. You have talents that I don't, but I didn't suffer some sort of PTSD from finding out that the NY Times has a POV.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Ron Unz


    "Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?"
     
    Somewhere I heard that prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant Asian students from elite universities, and they were able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story. Now if only I could remember where I heard that...

    Just wanted to to say thank you, Mr. Unz, for sponsoring this site. Whatever its flaws, its virtues really are a beacon unto the nations.

    Replies: @grmbl

  267. @Steve Sailer
    @SFG

    I don't know if this WASP v. Catholic distinction in propensity for white flight is all that tenable but I've been kicking it around for awhile.

    The idea is that British-Americans have a frontier tradition, and perhaps some of the Protestant Continentals, while most of the Catholic groups had an urban tradition: the Irish believed in taking over urban institutions like the police and the Catholic Church. Italians like high density living near their relatives. I don't know stereotypes about lower profile Catholics like Poles.

    Here's a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it's ethnic, perhaps it's the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it's economic.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Brutusale, @AnotherDad, @Muse, @biz

    This is why:

    Industrial growth in Detroit was so large, it had an insatiable demand for low skilled labor. Detroit’s growth dwarfed Pittsburgh. All you needed to do was be able to turn screws and show up everyday to be middle class. The assembly line was truly a revolution for the daft and the unskilled. WWII put this dynamic into overdrive. People that in the old economy were unproductive suddenly became phenomenally more productive, and they could be paid well if they could endure stultifying jobs on the line. Even illiterate scots-irish hillbillies and blacks could make a fine living, and they came in droves.

    Now what outcome could one expect from the children of the multi-cultural mishmash of autoworkers after the plants close? Post industrial Detroit and its suburbs perhaps?

    Instead of making the daft productive, the Internet/tech revolution has made them unnecessary. This is why low skilled immigration is so damaging to the country at this juncture.

    Look at the Detroit growth trajectory vs. Pittsburgh starting in 1900-1910. The blacks and hillbillies came during WWII.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=detroit+population+growth&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS697US697&oq=detroit+population+growth&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.12058j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=3bHtzUQb4iCXRM%3A

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Muse

    Muse, "All you needed to do was be able to turn screws and show up everyday to be middle class.", that my friend is the truest comment on America's past. Not to be replicated ever again.

  268. @Ron Unz
    @iffen


    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?
     
    It's really not very complicated. Large-scale "conspiracies" or "cover-ups" can only be effectively maintained if their backers have substantial or (preferably) overwhelming control over the media. Thus, maintaining an anti-Jewish "conspiracy" is simply an impossibility in present-day America. A pro-Jewish "conspiracy" on the other hand, well...

    Since I have the impression that you're some sort of racialist, let's put it in terms that you might understand. Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?...

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @iffen, @Almost Missouri

    What are your thoughts on the Brexit?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @JohnnyWalker123


    What are your thoughts on the Brexit?
     
    Well, I'm no huge expert, but offhand I'm very pleased. As far as I can tell, roughly 100% of all non-Establishment writers---Left or Right---support Brexit, for all sorts of different reasons, and would be extremely happy if the EU entirely collapsed.

    Among other things, it's likely to reduce the risk of the crazy US-promoted conflict with Russia.
  269. @Lot
    @biz

    The only conspiracy theory in US history that seems plausible to me is that JE Hoover kept himself in power for so long with the FBI by having files on so many politicians. Not just staying as head of the agency, but keeping it well budgeted and aligned with his personal, somewhat Nixonian-center-right personal politics.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Almost Missouri

    What about Operation Northwoods?

  270. @biz
    @Ron Unz

    Let me save you the time. I've looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.

    There is no purpose in being fringe for the sake of being fringe. That is a juvenile aesthetic like the goth kids in South Park. Concentrate on ideas that are out of the mainstream but are actually interesting / plausible.

    Replies: @Lot, @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Ron Unz

    Jack Ruby blamed LBJ for JFK’s assassination.

    Must’ve been a conspiracy theorist.

  271. @biz
    @Ron Unz

    Let me save you the time. I've looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.

    There is no purpose in being fringe for the sake of being fringe. That is a juvenile aesthetic like the goth kids in South Park. Concentrate on ideas that are out of the mainstream but are actually interesting / plausible.

    Replies: @Lot, @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Ron Unz

    The House Select Committee on Assassinations found a conspiracy behind the JFK assassination.

    Lots of CIA agents were found to have been associates with Oswald.

    Antonio Vecenia was shot in the head after testifying about this.

    DA Jim Garrison did an investigation into this. The CIA openly admits that they spying on him.

  272. @Ron Unz
    @iffen


    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?
     
    It's really not very complicated. Large-scale "conspiracies" or "cover-ups" can only be effectively maintained if their backers have substantial or (preferably) overwhelming control over the media. Thus, maintaining an anti-Jewish "conspiracy" is simply an impossibility in present-day America. A pro-Jewish "conspiracy" on the other hand, well...

    Since I have the impression that you're some sort of racialist, let's put it in terms that you might understand. Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?...

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @iffen, @Almost Missouri

    Since I am some sort of racialist, I would say your conspiracy fails in that you would play hell finding thousands of brilliant black students that are excluded from educational institutions. Racialist are very much aware that any above average black has a free ride in the educational industry. If they are way above average, the elite institutions literally fight over them. Working class whites are the ones being f*** over in the educational racket. I don’t like your condescending tone. You have talents that I don’t, but I didn’t suffer some sort of PTSD from finding out that the NY Times has a POV.

  273. @Lot
    @biz

    The only conspiracy theory in US history that seems plausible to me is that JE Hoover kept himself in power for so long with the FBI by having files on so many politicians. Not just staying as head of the agency, but keeping it well budgeted and aligned with his personal, somewhat Nixonian-center-right personal politics.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Almost Missouri

    NSA spied on Congressmen, Judge Alito, General Petraeus, intelligence officials, and (then) Senator Obama.

    Hmmm………………..

    No such thing as a conspiracy.

  274. @ben tillman
    @anonymous-antimarxist


    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.
     
    Compensating or "overcompensating" (for what?) after growing up in a college town is not a "thing". I grew up in a college town, and less than 1% of my Facebook friends from back home express any SJW opinions.

    Now, growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon -- that's different. Our one next-door neighbor did just that, and she is a loony liberal.

    Replies: @SFG, @anonymous-antimarxist, @Boomstick

    I grew up the next town over from Kristof, a few years later. It was an interesting time. There was a mix of farmers and the initial wedge of proto-SWPLs, the back-to-the-earth hippies in the 60’s and 70’s. The ur-SWPLs weren’t yet numerous enough to have a self-contained society, and small towns aren’t conducive to that anyway. There aren’t enough people in Yamhill to socialize exclusively with people who think the same way. While he had college professor parents, Yamhill-Carlton high school was not a high school like those found in NoVa that are a pipeline to elite colleges. Kristof overplays his rural background; his father started teaching at PSU in ’71 after grad school and postdocs in places like Chicago, and Nick graduated from high school in ’77, then decamped to fancy schools.

    Since that era Portland has grown to completely dominate the state, and it’s populated by standard-issue progressives who only talk to other bog-standard progressives.

  275. @Ron Unz
    @Svigor


    My guess is that “Jonathan Revusky” is a pseudonym for Ron Unz.
     
    Ha, ha---I'm afraid not... And as only the most dim-witted commenters haven't already realized, I don't necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely "conspiracy theories" fall into that category...

    However, I'll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I'm pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    Frankly, I don't know the truth of these conspiracy matters. I've been busy with other things and have never really investigated them. But the questions raised seem like interesting and important ones to me, and I think it might be nice if other people did bother looking into them more carefully, which is more likely to happen if they're conveniently available on my webzine.

    Now admittedly, there's a sharp division of opinion on my decision. On the one hand, various anonymous racialist commenters are clearly concerned that their endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer "guilt by association" by sharing a website with this other material. And on the other hand, there's that elite establishment friend of mine, whose own boldface friends are regularly quoted on the front page of the NYT/WSJ and who has a very different perspective.

    So whose judgment on these publication matters should I regard as carrying more weight? Such a difficult choice...

    Replies: @Lot, @Nico, @biz, @iffen, @Hepp

    However, I’ll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I’m pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

    I’ve read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in “conspiracy theories” and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren’t going to tell you to your face that you’re crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.

    There’s no evidence that I’m aware of that powerful people in any large numbers tend to find it plausible that, for example, the Orlando shooting was a false flag.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    I’ve read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in “conspiracy theories” and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren’t going to tell you to your face that you’re crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.
     
    Nope. In the particular case in question, I'd dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he'd looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I'm talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

    Now for obvious reasons, I can't disclose his identity, but here's a different, more recent case, in which everything was public.

    A few months ago I was invited to speak on a panel dealing with government corruption issues held at the annual conference of the American Economics Association. The other panelists were quite respectable people, with Daniel Ellsberg being the most prominent name. And it was a very respectable gathering, with Nobel Laureante Joseph Stiglitz being one of the attendees.

    I decided to focus on the same shocking "conspiracy theories" I'd discussed in my American Pravda article. Probably the most astonishing one was the Sibel Edmonds case, and although some of the members of the audience were skeptical, Ellsberg said he'd known all about for many years and thought it was all probably true. With regard to the McCain/POW story, Ellsberg said he'd never heard of it and found it totally shocking, but felt that some of the arguments I'd made seemed reasonably persuasive. So he took home with him some of the offprints I'd brought along, read them overnight, and told me at the dinner-reception the next day that he was absolutely convinced by the material.

    https://www.unz.com/article/our-american-pravda/

    Now offhand, it seems to me that there are very few people with greater public credibility in assessing possible government conspiracies and media cover-ups than Daniel Ellsberg, and if he believes in the reality of the Sibel Edmonds and McCain/POW "conspiracy theories" I'd say there's a pretty good chance they're true, even if a few anonymous racialist commenters on my webzine remain skeptical.

    And here's the key point. Once you accept the likely reality of a long, long list of gigantic "conspiracy theories" and media cover-ups, you necessarily have to become much more agnostic about others, despite the pooh-poohing of the media.

    For example, if I had to bet, I'd guess that both the Orlando Massacre and the Sandy Hook Massacre were exactly what they seem to be, and the supposed MSM anomalies are just due to incompetence rather than any conspiracy. But I'm not nearly as sure in my opinion as I might have been a few years ago.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @5371, @Hepp, @grmbl

  276. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Ron Unz

    What are your thoughts on the Brexit?

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    What are your thoughts on the Brexit?

    Well, I’m no huge expert, but offhand I’m very pleased. As far as I can tell, roughly 100% of all non-Establishment writers—Left or Right—support Brexit, for all sorts of different reasons, and would be extremely happy if the EU entirely collapsed.

    Among other things, it’s likely to reduce the risk of the crazy US-promoted conflict with Russia.

  277. @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a “9-11 Truther” ... However, he’s still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.
     
    He may or may not have signed a single Truther petition years ago. He denies he did. Seems pretty easy to put someone's name on one.

    That is not why his appointment was rejected, rather he made too many extreme-left attacks on Republicans.

    Certainly there people, and (I’d suspect) lots of other “Truthers” are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger.
     
    I don't know exactly what you mean by "racialist." I am not aware of anyone else who uses that term.

    Your general point, as I think I understand it, is just plain wrong.

    If "racialist" means "race realist" or "people who believe there are genetic racial differences in IQ and criminal impulsiveness" then we are absolutely more mainstream than 9-11 truthers.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.
     
    I am aware of the efforts to marginalize us, and their fair degree of success. But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.

    There is also the fact that the most influential judge in America, Richard Posner, is a realist. Are their any truther circuit judges of any stature?

    Maybe, like race realists, 9-11 Truthers are trying to advance their cause, often quietly to avoid taboos and offense on a very touchy subject. I am not aware of any evidence for this.

    As for the ISIS beheading videos being fake, wouldn't that also require that the many ISIS social media accounts and propaganda video statements be fakes as well? If not, why would they not disavow fakes designed to smear them? Also, what happened to the Western hostages who were the subjects of the fake beheading videos? Quietly shot in the back of the head later on? In witness protection?

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @5371

    But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.

    You’re just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous. Let’s take Trump, whom you apparently admire and regard as the touchstone of media visibility.

    Surely you remember that just a few years ago Trump held a national press conference to declare that Obama’s birth certificate was a fake and that Obama was probably born in Kenya or something? Personally, I very much doubt Obama was born outside the U.S., but that’s clearly a super-conspiracy-theory, and Trump is its most prominent national advocate.

    Now Trump is obviously just a loudmouth, but for many years his closest political advisor and strategist has been Roger Stone, who is treated *very* respectfully in the NYT and the rest of the MSM. Surely you must be aware that just a few years ago Stone published a book called “LBJ: The Man Who Killed Kennedy,” in which he provided a massive accumulation of evidence, much of it based on his personal knowledge, that LBJ was the mastermind behind JFK’s assassination. Offhand, I found it reasonably persuasive, with the biggest problem being that Stone’s a notoriously slippery political operative, so perhaps he just invented some of the factual details in his book.

    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.

    Thus, both your hero Trump and his closest political advisor are ultra-conspiracy-people. Or weren’t you aware of this before you published your silly comment?

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    You’re just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous.
     
    Only if you conflate what I said specifically about 9-11 truthers as applicable to all conspiracy theories, which I never did in the comment. Of course I understand JFK conspiracies are mainstream, they may even be the majority of people.

    You specifically said (1) Van Jones is a 9-11 Truther (2) He and other 9-11 Truthers are on TV/MSM more than "racialists" which I presumed to mean race realists in the mold of Coulter, Charles Murray, Razib, etc.

    Both of the statements are false.

    Regarding Trump's birtherism, I doubt that at any time Trump had a sincere belief Obama was born in Kenya, but rather he (1) was trolling Obama (2) changing the topic to Obama's exoticness compared to most white and black americans (3) promoting his brand by becoming the USA's most famous birther (4) dog-whistling to us "racialists" he does not accept Obama as a legitimate leader of the United States.

    And that's OK, I will vote for him anyway! I don't expect sincerity from those I vote for, indeed I think your Latino crime articles were some combination of trolling/playing devil's advocate/Straussian subterfuge.* But I voted for you a few weeks ago as eagerly as I will vote for the Donald in October. (I vote early by mail).

    *(That's not an accusation at all, just my absolutely sincere belief.)

    While going after a strawman, you did not really respond to my comment's main point, which is that you've got a good third or more of America's best skeptics of racial egalitarianism here, and it is a great thing you are providing them money and an ad-free platform with commenting software better than any other website except maybe reddit. And much better than Discqus with its millions in VC funding.

    Nonetheless, even if you are a 9-11 Truther and strongly dislike the Israel Lobby Menace, you should recognize that putting that content on separately branded sites would promote your other content better.

    Regarding Roger Stone, he's another guy I admire but whose honesty/sincerity is in so much doubt I cannot even imagine reading a book by him, apart from some campaign war stories and political tips.

    You don't owe me any explanation or defense of how you spend your hard earned money and limited time. But I did expect better than ad hominem and burning a strawman.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @wren
    @Ron Unz

    I am surprised by your tone dismissing Trump, particularly in light of of your openness to conspiracy theories.

    I was really happy that Trump brought up Obama's provenance when he did, as I have felt that there is more to the story than we know.

    For example, I remember when the MSM made a big fuss that someone had illegally accessed the passport of John McCain, because the press thought that he might be hiding something about his birth in Panama, or whatever and was about to be disqualified for it.

    The same way they made a big fuss about American weapons turning up in Mexico and killing innocents. I read about that before I ever heard about Fast and Furious.

    And I read about McCain's passport being the target before I read that Obama's was also accessed a few times, apparently, clandestinely, and illegally. The story disappeared from the MSM at that point since it lost the narrative about McCain hiding something.

    I always wondered about it but didn't look into it. Had I done so, I would have found that the company that accessed it was headed by John Brennan, who would later go on to lead the CIA.

    I only found this out recently, when examining the claim and evidence that John Brennan is actually Muslim, which isn't as much of a stretch as it first seems, when you learn that he is fluent in Arabic, and spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia, etc.

    And yes, I too, enjoyed Foucault's Pendulum.

    Replies: @wren

    , @ben tillman
    @Ron Unz


    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.
     
    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?

    Replies: @JackOH, @Mr. Anon, @Ron Unz, @Triumph104

  278. @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    Given that this seems to be the 100th post Steve had done rifting on some Open Borders sob story nonsense penned by Nicholas Kristof, it is worth repeating that Kristof seems to be over compensating for his probably idyllic childhood growing up as the child of college professors in Oregon.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Nicholas Kristof is the poster child for everything wrong with the Left and Democrats. Kristof is self-important, conceited, ungrateful, and spiteful. We need a divorce – just like the Brits.

  279. @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    However, I’ll provide an additional interesting tidbit. I’m pretty friendly with lots of prominent people, many of whom would certainly be considered paid-up members of the elite mainstream-establishment. And after I happened to publish that first, extremely long Revusky piece, probably the best-connected, most elite/establishment one of them all congratulated me on the piece and praised me for publishing it.

     

    I've read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in "conspiracy theories" and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren't going to tell you to your face that you're crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.

    There's no evidence that I'm aware of that powerful people in any large numbers tend to find it plausible that, for example, the Orlando shooting was a false flag.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    I’ve read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in “conspiracy theories” and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren’t going to tell you to your face that you’re crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.

    Nope. In the particular case in question, I’d dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he’d looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I’m talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

    Now for obvious reasons, I can’t disclose his identity, but here’s a different, more recent case, in which everything was public.

    A few months ago I was invited to speak on a panel dealing with government corruption issues held at the annual conference of the American Economics Association. The other panelists were quite respectable people, with Daniel Ellsberg being the most prominent name. And it was a very respectable gathering, with Nobel Laureante Joseph Stiglitz being one of the attendees.

    I decided to focus on the same shocking “conspiracy theories” I’d discussed in my American Pravda article. Probably the most astonishing one was the Sibel Edmonds case, and although some of the members of the audience were skeptical, Ellsberg said he’d known all about for many years and thought it was all probably true. With regard to the McCain/POW story, Ellsberg said he’d never heard of it and found it totally shocking, but felt that some of the arguments I’d made seemed reasonably persuasive. So he took home with him some of the offprints I’d brought along, read them overnight, and told me at the dinner-reception the next day that he was absolutely convinced by the material.

    https://www.unz.com/article/our-american-pravda/

    Now offhand, it seems to me that there are very few people with greater public credibility in assessing possible government conspiracies and media cover-ups than Daniel Ellsberg, and if he believes in the reality of the Sibel Edmonds and McCain/POW “conspiracy theories” I’d say there’s a pretty good chance they’re true, even if a few anonymous racialist commenters on my webzine remain skeptical.

    And here’s the key point. Once you accept the likely reality of a long, long list of gigantic “conspiracy theories” and media cover-ups, you necessarily have to become much more agnostic about others, despite the pooh-poohing of the media.

    For example, if I had to bet, I’d guess that both the Orlando Massacre and the Sandy Hook Massacre were exactly what they seem to be, and the supposed MSM anomalies are just due to incompetence rather than any conspiracy. But I’m not nearly as sure in my opinion as I might have been a few years ago.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Ron Unz


    it definitely looked like a government false-flag
     
    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @5371
    @Ron Unz

    Is your friend in business?

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    Nope. In the particular case in question, I’d dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he’d looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I’m talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

     

    That really doesn't address the selection issue. It would be interesting if there was evidence that elite/establishment types believe that there are false flag operations in any significant numbers, but this is just one individual, and your reputation for unconventional views may simply attract the small minority of connected people who find such theories plausible.

    I don't think it's wise to lump in theories about Edmons, POWs, Charlie Hebdo, and Orlando all together under the label "conspiracy theories." In fact, I don't think the first two qualify. If a theory is widely discussed by mainstream publications, and in the case of POWs, investigated by Congress, then it's just a respectable theory. Sort of like how Watergate isn't really a "conspiracy theory." I think the congressional committees found that there were no POWs left, but members of the committee have been publicly vocal in their dissent.

    I won't comment on CH since I don't know enough about France. But to believe Orlando is a false flag under the PCR scenario would require the cooperation of the national media, the local media, the local morgues, the hospitals, the FBI, the local police force, the 50 actors who played victims and all their families, the government agency charged with getting them all new identities and living secret lives...you get the point.

    False flags aren't impossible. Evidence suggests that Putin may have carrier one out in the run up to the Second Chechen War. But in the US at least, aside from 9/11 few terrorist events directly lead to any significant policy change. If anything, they seem highly inconvenient for an elite that has multiculturalism and open borders so close to its heart. And to tell the truth, in a country of 300 million people with widely available firearms and porous borders, it's more of a mystery why these things don't happen much more often.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @grmbl
    @Ron Unz


    Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists
     

    Nope, he said, he’d looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position.
     
    Awesome! You should work this into your campaign stump speech, I guarantee it will bring you extra attention.

    Replies: @grmbl

  280. @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    I’ve read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in “conspiracy theories” and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren’t going to tell you to your face that you’re crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.
     
    Nope. In the particular case in question, I'd dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he'd looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I'm talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

    Now for obvious reasons, I can't disclose his identity, but here's a different, more recent case, in which everything was public.

    A few months ago I was invited to speak on a panel dealing with government corruption issues held at the annual conference of the American Economics Association. The other panelists were quite respectable people, with Daniel Ellsberg being the most prominent name. And it was a very respectable gathering, with Nobel Laureante Joseph Stiglitz being one of the attendees.

    I decided to focus on the same shocking "conspiracy theories" I'd discussed in my American Pravda article. Probably the most astonishing one was the Sibel Edmonds case, and although some of the members of the audience were skeptical, Ellsberg said he'd known all about for many years and thought it was all probably true. With regard to the McCain/POW story, Ellsberg said he'd never heard of it and found it totally shocking, but felt that some of the arguments I'd made seemed reasonably persuasive. So he took home with him some of the offprints I'd brought along, read them overnight, and told me at the dinner-reception the next day that he was absolutely convinced by the material.

    https://www.unz.com/article/our-american-pravda/

    Now offhand, it seems to me that there are very few people with greater public credibility in assessing possible government conspiracies and media cover-ups than Daniel Ellsberg, and if he believes in the reality of the Sibel Edmonds and McCain/POW "conspiracy theories" I'd say there's a pretty good chance they're true, even if a few anonymous racialist commenters on my webzine remain skeptical.

    And here's the key point. Once you accept the likely reality of a long, long list of gigantic "conspiracy theories" and media cover-ups, you necessarily have to become much more agnostic about others, despite the pooh-poohing of the media.

    For example, if I had to bet, I'd guess that both the Orlando Massacre and the Sandy Hook Massacre were exactly what they seem to be, and the supposed MSM anomalies are just due to incompetence rather than any conspiracy. But I'm not nearly as sure in my opinion as I might have been a few years ago.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @5371, @Hepp, @grmbl

    it definitely looked like a government false-flag

    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Charles Erwin Wilson


    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia
     
    Hard to say, and my friend never passed along any particular theory, even after checking with his French contacts. It's obviously much easier to argue that something was a false-flag than to figure out exactly who organized it.

    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting "free expression." For example, France's most popular comedian is that black guy who criticizes Israel, and after the attacks, he wrote one very mild joke on his Facebook page and was immediately arrested and sent off to prison. Basically, if this webzine were in France, most of the writers and commenters would surely be behind bars.

    There was another interesting detail never reported in the American newspapers. Even though my friend indicated that there were *huge* private suspicions of a false-flag attack in France, absolutely no one dared say anything publicly. However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. Again, never reported in the American media. Now Le Pen always had a huge loyal rightwing following, including in the military, and his daughter might be France's next president. Yet his house was burned down and he was almost killed. So after that, I'd think that any French "conspiracy theorist" decided it might be healthier to avoid promoting such nonsense in public.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Lot, @biz

  281. @Ace
    @Kylie

    It's the same with a lot of middle class men I know. I understand differences of opinion but many of their minds are just walled off. I once was chatting with a very decent but very liberal friend of mine about what we might do to get out of the wage squirrel cage. Before long he'd turned the conversation into the evils of corporations. I point out the shift in topic but it was a waste of time to pursue.

    Not sure if this is quite what you were discussing but few are the men I've known who considered military service even as a short-term option and the women were all fixated on abortion as a sacrament. In my opinion a normal man should be absolutely furious at the wide open border and cheapening of citizenship but I can count on only one had those who are. Who are these people?

    Replies: @Kylie

    Oh yes, I know there are plenty of white middle-class men who are as odiously leftist as the distaff side.

    And no matter how trim and fit they are, they always seem very unmanly to me.

    I totally agree that normal men should be furious at the open borders and cheapening of citizenship. But so should normal women.

  282. biz says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @SFG

    I don't know if this WASP v. Catholic distinction in propensity for white flight is all that tenable but I've been kicking it around for awhile.

    The idea is that British-Americans have a frontier tradition, and perhaps some of the Protestant Continentals, while most of the Catholic groups had an urban tradition: the Irish believed in taking over urban institutions like the police and the Catholic Church. Italians like high density living near their relatives. I don't know stereotypes about lower profile Catholics like Poles.

    Here's a test case: Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. What are the reasons that Pittsburgh came through the 20th Century with a sizable white population but Detroit did not? Perhaps it's ethnic, perhaps it's the very different topographies of the two places, perhaps it's economic.

    Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist, @Brutusale, @AnotherDad, @Muse, @biz

    The differences between Detroit and Pittsburgh are as follows:

    Dominant white ethnicities:
    Pitts: German, Scots-Irish
    Detroit: Eastern European, Italian, Greek, Armenian, Chaldean, etc.

    Universities:
    Pitt: Carnegie-Mellon (top comp-sci department in the world), Univ. of Pittsburgh
    Detroit: Wayne State (commuter school that just dropped its only math requirement)

    Terrain:
    Pitt: Hilly
    Detroit: Flat

    Public Transit:
    Pitt: streetcar system
    Detroit: non-existent

    • Replies: @Lot
    @biz


    Dominant white ethnicities:
    Pitts: German, Scots-Irish
    Detroit: Eastern European, Italian, Greek, Armenian, Chaldean, etc.

     

    Not really. The white population of both metro areas are similar, most notably they are both overweight western Slavs. Detroit of course also was a center of Arab Christian immigration, but the absolute numbers were still pretty small.

    You put "Italians" in the Detroit category, but the Pittsburgh area is much more Italian than the Detroit area.


    Universities:
    Pitt: Carnegie-Mellon (top comp-sci department in the world), Univ. of Pittsburgh
    Detroit: Wayne State (commuter school that just dropped its only math requirement)
     
    The University of Michigan is in Ann Arbor, about a 40-minute hour drive from Detroit proper and a 15 minute drive from its western suburbs.
  283. @Kylie
    @SFG

    You think blacks and you [non-observant] Jews have it bad?

    I'm a white middle-class woman. You know, one of the group Whiskey is always railing against.* I'm expected to have drunk, wallowed in and douched with the Kool-Aid all the other white middle-class women have used. And when they realize I haven't, they turn on me. No solidarity or sororal loyalty for me. And frankly, that's a two-way street. I feel nothing but contempt and hostility toward them.

    I've always loved being female, never wanted to be anything else. But when I read about and listen to the sheer idiocy and lunacy most of that group spews, I don't even think of myself as a woman in the same sense that they are women.

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @iSteveFan, @Ace, @Mark2, @Monopthalmus

    Not surprising. Most men have an intractable, inborn protective filter of delusion about women.

  284. Lot says:
    @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.
     
    You're just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous. Let's take Trump, whom you apparently admire and regard as the touchstone of media visibility.

    Surely you remember that just a few years ago Trump held a national press conference to declare that Obama's birth certificate was a fake and that Obama was probably born in Kenya or something? Personally, I very much doubt Obama was born outside the U.S., but that's clearly a super-conspiracy-theory, and Trump is its most prominent national advocate.

    Now Trump is obviously just a loudmouth, but for many years his closest political advisor and strategist has been Roger Stone, who is treated *very* respectfully in the NYT and the rest of the MSM. Surely you must be aware that just a few years ago Stone published a book called "LBJ: The Man Who Killed Kennedy," in which he provided a massive accumulation of evidence, much of it based on his personal knowledge, that LBJ was the mastermind behind JFK's assassination. Offhand, I found it reasonably persuasive, with the biggest problem being that Stone's a notoriously slippery political operative, so perhaps he just invented some of the factual details in his book.

    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.

    Thus, both your hero Trump and his closest political advisor are ultra-conspiracy-people. Or weren't you aware of this before you published your silly comment?

    Replies: @Lot, @wren, @ben tillman

    You’re just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous.

    Only if you conflate what I said specifically about 9-11 truthers as applicable to all conspiracy theories, which I never did in the comment. Of course I understand JFK conspiracies are mainstream, they may even be the majority of people.

    You specifically said (1) Van Jones is a 9-11 Truther (2) He and other 9-11 Truthers are on TV/MSM more than “racialists” which I presumed to mean race realists in the mold of Coulter, Charles Murray, Razib, etc.

    Both of the statements are false.

    Regarding Trump’s birtherism, I doubt that at any time Trump had a sincere belief Obama was born in Kenya, but rather he (1) was trolling Obama (2) changing the topic to Obama’s exoticness compared to most white and black americans (3) promoting his brand by becoming the USA’s most famous birther (4) dog-whistling to us “racialists” he does not accept Obama as a legitimate leader of the United States.

    And that’s OK, I will vote for him anyway! I don’t expect sincerity from those I vote for, indeed I think your Latino crime articles were some combination of trolling/playing devil’s advocate/Straussian subterfuge.* But I voted for you a few weeks ago as eagerly as I will vote for the Donald in October. (I vote early by mail).

    *(That’s not an accusation at all, just my absolutely sincere belief.)

    While going after a strawman, you did not really respond to my comment’s main point, which is that you’ve got a good third or more of America’s best skeptics of racial egalitarianism here, and it is a great thing you are providing them money and an ad-free platform with commenting software better than any other website except maybe reddit. And much better than Discqus with its millions in VC funding.

    Nonetheless, even if you are a 9-11 Truther and strongly dislike the Israel Lobby Menace, you should recognize that putting that content on separately branded sites would promote your other content better.

    Regarding Roger Stone, he’s another guy I admire but whose honesty/sincerity is in so much doubt I cannot even imagine reading a book by him, apart from some campaign war stories and political tips.

    You don’t owe me any explanation or defense of how you spend your hard earned money and limited time. But I did expect better than ad hominem and burning a strawman.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    Regarding Trump’s birtherism, I doubt that at any time Trump had a sincere belief Obama was born in Kenya...I think your Latino crime articles were some combination of trolling/playing devil’s advocate/Straussian subterfuge
     
    Congratulations for being telepathic! So even if Donald Trump goes on national TV and promotes a crazy-conspiracy-theory, you know he doesn't really mean it.

    As for the other matter, I'd be the first to admit I'm no great expert on "conspiracy theories," whether JFK, 9-11, or any of the others; I have my opinions, and that's about it. However, based on all my published work, I do think I'm very much a leading national expert on ethnic sociology, include crime rates, and six years on, I'd say I'm now about 99% confident that my Hispanic Crime analysis was correct, so much so that I can't even remember the last time anyone seriously disputed it. So if some anonymous racialist commenter such as yourself casually dismisses it, that simply demonstrates you're just an innumerate racialist nitwit. The nitwit part has already long been obvious based on your numerous other comments, including on this very thread.

    Personally, I think the greatest weakness of "racialism" is that it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Lot

  285. @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.
     
    You're just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous. Let's take Trump, whom you apparently admire and regard as the touchstone of media visibility.

    Surely you remember that just a few years ago Trump held a national press conference to declare that Obama's birth certificate was a fake and that Obama was probably born in Kenya or something? Personally, I very much doubt Obama was born outside the U.S., but that's clearly a super-conspiracy-theory, and Trump is its most prominent national advocate.

    Now Trump is obviously just a loudmouth, but for many years his closest political advisor and strategist has been Roger Stone, who is treated *very* respectfully in the NYT and the rest of the MSM. Surely you must be aware that just a few years ago Stone published a book called "LBJ: The Man Who Killed Kennedy," in which he provided a massive accumulation of evidence, much of it based on his personal knowledge, that LBJ was the mastermind behind JFK's assassination. Offhand, I found it reasonably persuasive, with the biggest problem being that Stone's a notoriously slippery political operative, so perhaps he just invented some of the factual details in his book.

    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.

    Thus, both your hero Trump and his closest political advisor are ultra-conspiracy-people. Or weren't you aware of this before you published your silly comment?

    Replies: @Lot, @wren, @ben tillman

    I am surprised by your tone dismissing Trump, particularly in light of of your openness to conspiracy theories.

    I was really happy that Trump brought up Obama’s provenance when he did, as I have felt that there is more to the story than we know.

    For example, I remember when the MSM made a big fuss that someone had illegally accessed the passport of John McCain, because the press thought that he might be hiding something about his birth in Panama, or whatever and was about to be disqualified for it.

    The same way they made a big fuss about American weapons turning up in Mexico and killing innocents. I read about that before I ever heard about Fast and Furious.

    And I read about McCain’s passport being the target before I read that Obama’s was also accessed a few times, apparently, clandestinely, and illegally. The story disappeared from the MSM at that point since it lost the narrative about McCain hiding something.

    I always wondered about it but didn’t look into it. Had I done so, I would have found that the company that accessed it was headed by John Brennan, who would later go on to lead the CIA.

    I only found this out recently, when examining the claim and evidence that John Brennan is actually Muslim, which isn’t as much of a stretch as it first seems, when you learn that he is fluent in Arabic, and spent a lot of time in Saudi Arabia, etc.

    And yes, I too, enjoyed Foucault’s Pendulum.

    • Replies: @wren
    @wren

    For some reason, that comment stayed in moderation for over a day, and wasn't visible in my browser either after I posted it, so I figured it just disappeared into the aether and I wrote a similar one.

    Must be some kind of conspiracy.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  286. @Muse
    @Steve Sailer

    This is why:

    Industrial growth in Detroit was so large, it had an insatiable demand for low skilled labor. Detroit's growth dwarfed Pittsburgh. All you needed to do was be able to turn screws and show up everyday to be middle class. The assembly line was truly a revolution for the daft and the unskilled. WWII put this dynamic into overdrive. People that in the old economy were unproductive suddenly became phenomenally more productive, and they could be paid well if they could endure stultifying jobs on the line. Even illiterate scots-irish hillbillies and blacks could make a fine living, and they came in droves.

    Now what outcome could one expect from the children of the multi-cultural mishmash of autoworkers after the plants close? Post industrial Detroit and its suburbs perhaps?

    Instead of making the daft productive, the Internet/tech revolution has made them unnecessary. This is why low skilled immigration is so damaging to the country at this juncture.

    Look at the Detroit growth trajectory vs. Pittsburgh starting in 1900-1910. The blacks and hillbillies came during WWII.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=detroit+population+growth&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS697US697&oq=detroit+population+growth&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.12058j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=3bHtzUQb4iCXRM%3A

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Muse, “All you needed to do was be able to turn screws and show up everyday to be middle class.”, that my friend is the truest comment on America’s past. Not to be replicated ever again.

  287. Lot says:
    @biz
    @Steve Sailer

    The differences between Detroit and Pittsburgh are as follows:

    Dominant white ethnicities:
    Pitts: German, Scots-Irish
    Detroit: Eastern European, Italian, Greek, Armenian, Chaldean, etc.

    Universities:
    Pitt: Carnegie-Mellon (top comp-sci department in the world), Univ. of Pittsburgh
    Detroit: Wayne State (commuter school that just dropped its only math requirement)

    Terrain:
    Pitt: Hilly
    Detroit: Flat

    Public Transit:
    Pitt: streetcar system
    Detroit: non-existent

    Replies: @Lot

    Dominant white ethnicities:
    Pitts: German, Scots-Irish
    Detroit: Eastern European, Italian, Greek, Armenian, Chaldean, etc.

    Not really. The white population of both metro areas are similar, most notably they are both overweight western Slavs. Detroit of course also was a center of Arab Christian immigration, but the absolute numbers were still pretty small.

    You put “Italians” in the Detroit category, but the Pittsburgh area is much more Italian than the Detroit area.

    Universities:
    Pitt: Carnegie-Mellon (top comp-sci department in the world), Univ. of Pittsburgh
    Detroit: Wayne State (commuter school that just dropped its only math requirement)

    The University of Michigan is in Ann Arbor, about a 40-minute hour drive from Detroit proper and a 15 minute drive from its western suburbs.

  288. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Ron Unz


    it definitely looked like a government false-flag
     
    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia

    Hard to say, and my friend never passed along any particular theory, even after checking with his French contacts. It’s obviously much easier to argue that something was a false-flag than to figure out exactly who organized it.

    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting “free expression.” For example, France’s most popular comedian is that black guy who criticizes Israel, and after the attacks, he wrote one very mild joke on his Facebook page and was immediately arrested and sent off to prison. Basically, if this webzine were in France, most of the writers and commenters would surely be behind bars.

    There was another interesting detail never reported in the American newspapers. Even though my friend indicated that there were *huge* private suspicions of a false-flag attack in France, absolutely no one dared say anything publicly. However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. Again, never reported in the American media. Now Le Pen always had a huge loyal rightwing following, including in the military, and his daughter might be France’s next president. Yet his house was burned down and he was almost killed. So after that, I’d think that any French “conspiracy theorist” decided it might be healthier to avoid promoting such nonsense in public.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Ron Unz

    "However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. "

    It's also possible that Le Pen is senile and that both his assertion about Charlie Hebdo and his house burning down are due to dementia. Old people often inadvertainly start fires.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting “free expression.”
     
    At a certain point you have to start picking and choosing your Jewish conspiracy theories. Are Jews trying to stop Shoah 2.0 by undermining French white numbers and solidarity by importing millions of Muslims, or are they trying to help the French nationalist right by false-flagging Muslims by committing mass murder, disproportionately of fellow Jews, and blaming Muslim immigrants?

    Replies: @iffen

    , @biz
    @Ron Unz

    That 'black guy' comic doesn't "criticize Israel." He makes antisemitic skits that mostly have nothing do do with Israel. His comedy album was called "Give us back Jesus." His latest film, “L’Antisémite,” ridicules Auschwitz by showing black-and-white images of an American soldier inspecting a gas chamber and mocking tools, like shower heads, used by the Nazis to kill Jews.

    The rest of your comment is as lucid on other matters as it is in your knowledge of Dieudonne's repertoire. Jews are pulling off false flag attacks to demonize Muslims? I thought that Jews were flooding France with Muslims to dilute the French and forestall another Holocaust. These conspiracy theories are contradictory in addition to every other problem with them. Again, you are being fringe and outrageous for the sake of being fringe and outrageous, rather than applying a plausibility filter to ideas.

  289. @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    You’re just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous.
     
    Only if you conflate what I said specifically about 9-11 truthers as applicable to all conspiracy theories, which I never did in the comment. Of course I understand JFK conspiracies are mainstream, they may even be the majority of people.

    You specifically said (1) Van Jones is a 9-11 Truther (2) He and other 9-11 Truthers are on TV/MSM more than "racialists" which I presumed to mean race realists in the mold of Coulter, Charles Murray, Razib, etc.

    Both of the statements are false.

    Regarding Trump's birtherism, I doubt that at any time Trump had a sincere belief Obama was born in Kenya, but rather he (1) was trolling Obama (2) changing the topic to Obama's exoticness compared to most white and black americans (3) promoting his brand by becoming the USA's most famous birther (4) dog-whistling to us "racialists" he does not accept Obama as a legitimate leader of the United States.

    And that's OK, I will vote for him anyway! I don't expect sincerity from those I vote for, indeed I think your Latino crime articles were some combination of trolling/playing devil's advocate/Straussian subterfuge.* But I voted for you a few weeks ago as eagerly as I will vote for the Donald in October. (I vote early by mail).

    *(That's not an accusation at all, just my absolutely sincere belief.)

    While going after a strawman, you did not really respond to my comment's main point, which is that you've got a good third or more of America's best skeptics of racial egalitarianism here, and it is a great thing you are providing them money and an ad-free platform with commenting software better than any other website except maybe reddit. And much better than Discqus with its millions in VC funding.

    Nonetheless, even if you are a 9-11 Truther and strongly dislike the Israel Lobby Menace, you should recognize that putting that content on separately branded sites would promote your other content better.

    Regarding Roger Stone, he's another guy I admire but whose honesty/sincerity is in so much doubt I cannot even imagine reading a book by him, apart from some campaign war stories and political tips.

    You don't owe me any explanation or defense of how you spend your hard earned money and limited time. But I did expect better than ad hominem and burning a strawman.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Regarding Trump’s birtherism, I doubt that at any time Trump had a sincere belief Obama was born in Kenya…I think your Latino crime articles were some combination of trolling/playing devil’s advocate/Straussian subterfuge

    Congratulations for being telepathic! So even if Donald Trump goes on national TV and promotes a crazy-conspiracy-theory, you know he doesn’t really mean it.

    As for the other matter, I’d be the first to admit I’m no great expert on “conspiracy theories,” whether JFK, 9-11, or any of the others; I have my opinions, and that’s about it. However, based on all my published work, I do think I’m very much a leading national expert on ethnic sociology, include crime rates, and six years on, I’d say I’m now about 99% confident that my Hispanic Crime analysis was correct, so much so that I can’t even remember the last time anyone seriously disputed it. So if some anonymous racialist commenter such as yourself casually dismisses it, that simply demonstrates you’re just an innumerate racialist nitwit. The nitwit part has already long been obvious based on your numerous other comments, including on this very thread.

    Personally, I think the greatest weakness of “racialism” is that it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it…

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Ron Unz

    Scott Adams' take on Trump's birtherism:


    Did Trump’s involvement in the birther thing confuse you? Were you wondering how Trump could believe Obama was not a citizen? The answer is that Trump never believed anything about Obama’s place of birth. The facts were irrelevant, so he ignored them while finding a place in the hearts of conservatives. For later.

    This is later. He plans ahead.
     
    , @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    Personally, I think the greatest weakness of “racialism” is that it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it…
     
    Ron, would you mind offering your definition of "racialism," which I don't think anyone else here or elsewhere uses other than you? Is "people who believe there are genetic racial differences in IQ and criminal impulsiveness" what you are getting at?

    Regarding the proposition that we "racialists" have a disproportionate attraction to "innumerate nitwits," I think you have it exactly wrong. Racial egalitarianism is profoundly innumerate and anti-scientific.


    Congratulations for being telepathic! So even if Donald Trump goes on national TV and promotes a crazy-conspiracy-theory, you know he doesn’t really mean it.
     
    You do not have to be telepath to see that being insincere often is advantageous. And a salesman/politician/reality TV star like Trump lying? OMG perish the thought! I say this liking Trump a lot, but he is pretty clearly not someone like, say, Steve, who thinks being truthful and being right are ends in themselves. I hate the game, not the player.

    I’d say I’m now about 99% confident that my Hispanic Crime analysis was correct, so much so that I can’t even remember the last time anyone seriously disputed it. So if some anonymous racialist commenter such as yourself casually dismisses it, that simply demonstrates you’re just an innumerate racialist nitwit.
     
    I promise you, I am not innumerate, and I did in fact dispute it several times here, both in comments to your articles and on iSteve threads.

    You know, I already apologized in advance for doubting your sincerity in writing it. Reading your comments here, I am starting to doubt my doubts. (At times I have a lot of fun trolling and playing devil's advocate, perhaps I was projecting.)

    I am actually not sure exactly how much we disagree. Perhaps you could tell me if any of the following is inaccurate?

    Your view is that:

    1. US Hispanics have a crime rate only a bit higher than non-hispanic whites when controlling for age and sex.

    2. The difference is primarily the result of higher crime rates of Caribbean hispanics.

    3. It is unlikely there is any significance between the crime rate of Mexican Americans and Non-Hispanic whites.

    My view is that:

    1. It is indeed the case that Hispanic crime rates are nothing close to black crime rates, a point you make a few times.

    2. One of your primary methods, looking at overall crime rates compared to a jurisdiction's hispanic fraction, is fundamentally flawed. You have to concede that the method does not work if Hispanics tend to live in areas with whites who are below average in criminality, and tend not to live in areas where whites are above average in criminality.

    But as Steve has pointed out, Los Angeles whites have very, very low crime rates. I think if we looked at the question, we'd find that it is exactly the case that hispanics tend to live in the same jurisdictions as low-crime whites.

    3. Looking at published crime rates is also flawed given that hispanics are less likely to report crime. And can you dispute that an illegal hispanic immigrant is less likely to report a crime to the police than a non-hispanic white? That a legal hispanic immigrant or native hispanic citizen who has an illegal in their household is less likely to report a crime to the police? That someone who is not fluent in English is less likely to report a crime to the police?

    4. Hispanics are much more likely to be murder victims, and that most murders are intra-racial.

    5. Mestizo and mulatto Hispanic countries tend to have very high crime rates, while heavily white areas rarely do. And no area with a large majority of whites from inside the Hanjul line have crime rates that even approach that of non-white Latin America.

    6. There is not only a lot of data suggesting that European people have lower crime rates than mestizos and mulattos, but a good explanation of why. Specifically, Pinker describes the following factors:


    The Leviathan – the rise of the modern nation-state and judiciary "with a monopoly on the legitimate use of force," which "can defuse the [individual] temptation of exploitative attack, inhibit the impulse for revenge, and circumvent ... self-serving biases."
    Commerce – the rise of "technological progress [allowing] the exchange of goods and services over longer distances and larger groups of trading partners," so that "other people become more valuable alive than dead" and "are less likely to become targets of demonization and dehumanization."
    Feminization – increasing respect for "the interests and values of women."
    Cosmopolitanism – the rise of forces such as literacy, mobility, and mass media, which "can prompt people to take the perspectives of people unlike themselves and to expand their circle of sympathy to embrace them."
    The Escalator of Reason – an "intensifying application of knowledge and rationality to human affairs," which "can force people to recognize the futility of cycles of violence, to ramp down the privileging of their own interests over others', and to reframe violence as a problem to be solved rather than a contest to be won."
     
    Every single one of these factors applies far more strongly to the native peoples of Europe (and NE Asia) than to the native peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas, from which US Hispanics, in substantial part, are derived from.

    7. Pretty much every demographic factor we know is correlated to crime is more present in US Hispanics than non-Hispanic whites. Illegitimacy? Check. High school drop-out? Check. Poverty? Check.

    I'd enjoy expanding on these points further, with references to crime data and other sources. But your general responses to me of insults indicates to me that you'd rather I not. Since I like you and this is your website, I therefore won't without specific invitation.

    Replies: @iffen

  290. @biz
    @Ron Unz

    Let me save you the time. I've looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.

    There is no purpose in being fringe for the sake of being fringe. That is a juvenile aesthetic like the goth kids in South Park. Concentrate on ideas that are out of the mainstream but are actually interesting / plausible.

    Replies: @Lot, @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Ron Unz

    Let me save you the time. I’ve looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.

    Well, I really need to get back to my own work, but as a closing comment I’ll make one more overall point.

    I’m not too familiar with “biz”, but a quick look at his commenting history seems to indicate he’s some ignorant Jewish neocon nitwit who recently starting hanging out here, and his opinion isn’t worth anything.

    On the other hand, the general point he raises is an important one. To some extent, accepting the possible reality of “conspiracy theories” is a bifurcated all or nothing verdict. If you believe that only one or two of them are true, you’re faced with the massive implausibility of how the MSM could have possibly covered them up for so many years or decades. The argument from presumption is a very powerful one.

    However, once you start to accept that a consider number of these “conspiracy theories” are true, then the argument from MSM silence completely disappears, and it becomes very possible, even likely that numerous others are true as well. To use the most extreme example, if JFK was killed by a “conspiracy”—maybe one organized by LBJ—and the MSM covered it up for 50 years, then you’d have to admit that the MSM could cover up anything else, absolutely anything else. This doesn’t necessarily mean that any other particular conspiracy is true, but it does mean that you should be very cautious about just dismissing them out of hand. And given the very long list of “big ones,” it seems likely that many, perhaps even most are true.

    I was arguing exactly this point a week or two ago with a skeptical mainstream friend of mine, and the analogy I used was the Bill Cosby case. Over the years, I’d occasionally seen tiny items buried in the NYT about some woman here or there accusing Cosby of drugging and raping her, and although I never really knew what to think, I leaned towards skepticism. After all I said, Cosby was a big celebrity, and if there were any solid basis for the charges, surely they’d be on the front page instead and would have gotten much more MSM coverage.

    Then, over the last year, one thing led to another, and now something like 87 separate women have come forward, accusing Cosby of drugging and raping them. I really haven’t paid any attention to the case, but based on those numbers I’d say I’m 100% certain that most or nearly all of the accusations are true. As Stalin said, quantity has a quality of its own.

    So the point with “conspiracy theories” long ignored or dismissed by the MSM is that there are so *many* individual ones, each separately backed by persuasive evidence or highly regarded proponents, that the general MSM credibility against them totally dissipates, and in many or even most cases, that’s really the only argument against them. So that I’d guess that a pretty large fraction of the more heavily promoted ones are more or less true.

    • Replies: @biz
    @Ron Unz

    Ignoring the ad hominems and addressing the substance of your comment, such that it is, your Cosby example actually shows the opposite of what you think it does. Cosby's antics were reported in the media, at first grudgingly in throw-away articles on the back page and later it was front page news. It was not possible for Cosby's illegal / embarrassing behavior to be kept a secret indefinitely, and that was a secret that was about 1/1000th as juicy and about 1/100th as widely disseminated as any of the commonly touted conspiracy theories.

    The actual situation is the opposite of what you have supposed. The implausibility of one conspiracy theory in turn reflects poorly on all the others. For example people claim that the MSM and thousands of people in the government are and have been for 50 years keeping the secret that the moon landing was faked on a soundstage. But why would Brezhnev and Pravda also cover that up if it were true? They were tracking the whole thing. It is completely implausible. Clearly in this case people who accuse the MSM and thousands of people in the government of covering something up are being ridiculous. This in turn makes the whole idea of accusations of the MSM and thousands of people in the government being able to keep an unbelievably profound secret for 50 years in any other case even less credible.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Ron Unz

    "So the point with “conspiracy theories” long ignored or dismissed by the MSM is that there are so *many* individual ones, each separately backed by persuasive evidence or highly regarded proponents, that the general MSM credibility against them totally dissipates, and in many or even most cases, that’s really the only argument against them. So that I’d guess that a pretty large fraction of the more heavily promoted ones are more or less true."

    Does that include the "Moon Hoax" conspiracy?

  291. @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a “9-11 Truther” ... However, he’s still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.
     
    He may or may not have signed a single Truther petition years ago. He denies he did. Seems pretty easy to put someone's name on one.

    That is not why his appointment was rejected, rather he made too many extreme-left attacks on Republicans.

    Certainly there people, and (I’d suspect) lots of other “Truthers” are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger.
     
    I don't know exactly what you mean by "racialist." I am not aware of anyone else who uses that term.

    Your general point, as I think I understand it, is just plain wrong.

    If "racialist" means "race realist" or "people who believe there are genetic racial differences in IQ and criminal impulsiveness" then we are absolutely more mainstream than 9-11 truthers.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.
     
    I am aware of the efforts to marginalize us, and their fair degree of success. But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.

    There is also the fact that the most influential judge in America, Richard Posner, is a realist. Are their any truther circuit judges of any stature?

    Maybe, like race realists, 9-11 Truthers are trying to advance their cause, often quietly to avoid taboos and offense on a very touchy subject. I am not aware of any evidence for this.

    As for the ISIS beheading videos being fake, wouldn't that also require that the many ISIS social media accounts and propaganda video statements be fakes as well? If not, why would they not disavow fakes designed to smear them? Also, what happened to the Western hostages who were the subjects of the fake beheading videos? Quietly shot in the back of the head later on? In witness protection?

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @5371

    “Racialist” was the standard term in the English language, until it was replaced by the more illiterate and opprobrious “racist”.

  292. @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    I’ve read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in “conspiracy theories” and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren’t going to tell you to your face that you’re crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.
     
    Nope. In the particular case in question, I'd dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he'd looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I'm talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

    Now for obvious reasons, I can't disclose his identity, but here's a different, more recent case, in which everything was public.

    A few months ago I was invited to speak on a panel dealing with government corruption issues held at the annual conference of the American Economics Association. The other panelists were quite respectable people, with Daniel Ellsberg being the most prominent name. And it was a very respectable gathering, with Nobel Laureante Joseph Stiglitz being one of the attendees.

    I decided to focus on the same shocking "conspiracy theories" I'd discussed in my American Pravda article. Probably the most astonishing one was the Sibel Edmonds case, and although some of the members of the audience were skeptical, Ellsberg said he'd known all about for many years and thought it was all probably true. With regard to the McCain/POW story, Ellsberg said he'd never heard of it and found it totally shocking, but felt that some of the arguments I'd made seemed reasonably persuasive. So he took home with him some of the offprints I'd brought along, read them overnight, and told me at the dinner-reception the next day that he was absolutely convinced by the material.

    https://www.unz.com/article/our-american-pravda/

    Now offhand, it seems to me that there are very few people with greater public credibility in assessing possible government conspiracies and media cover-ups than Daniel Ellsberg, and if he believes in the reality of the Sibel Edmonds and McCain/POW "conspiracy theories" I'd say there's a pretty good chance they're true, even if a few anonymous racialist commenters on my webzine remain skeptical.

    And here's the key point. Once you accept the likely reality of a long, long list of gigantic "conspiracy theories" and media cover-ups, you necessarily have to become much more agnostic about others, despite the pooh-poohing of the media.

    For example, if I had to bet, I'd guess that both the Orlando Massacre and the Sandy Hook Massacre were exactly what they seem to be, and the supposed MSM anomalies are just due to incompetence rather than any conspiracy. But I'm not nearly as sure in my opinion as I might have been a few years ago.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @5371, @Hepp, @grmbl

    Is your friend in business?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @5371


    Is your friend in business?
     
    No, in public policy. The sort of person who might have an (outside) chance of becoming a Cabinet Secretary in a future presidential administrative.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  293. @Steve Sailer
    @Jimi

    I suspect there was a vague Anglo / Protestant versus non-Anglo / Catholic divide: British-descended people tended to take off for the crabgrass frontier at the first sign of trouble -- settling new land is what they do -- while Catholics tended to hunker down more in their neighborhoods and try to hold on. WASPs tended to own most of the suburban and exurban land that could be developed, but needed to sell it to the Catholic urban masses. So a black takeover of the cities displaced a lot of Catholic urbanites, driving up the value of surrounding land owned by WASPs.

    Replies: @WowJustWow, @SFG, @Lot, @Dave Pinsen

    There’s that scene in The Departed where Matt Damon’s character says:

    I want you to know you don’t gotta stay. If we’re not going to make it, it’s got to be you that gets out. I’m not capable. I’m fuckin’ Irish, so I’ll deal with something being wrong for the rest of my life.

  294. @Ron Unz
    @Charles Erwin Wilson


    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia
     
    Hard to say, and my friend never passed along any particular theory, even after checking with his French contacts. It's obviously much easier to argue that something was a false-flag than to figure out exactly who organized it.

    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting "free expression." For example, France's most popular comedian is that black guy who criticizes Israel, and after the attacks, he wrote one very mild joke on his Facebook page and was immediately arrested and sent off to prison. Basically, if this webzine were in France, most of the writers and commenters would surely be behind bars.

    There was another interesting detail never reported in the American newspapers. Even though my friend indicated that there were *huge* private suspicions of a false-flag attack in France, absolutely no one dared say anything publicly. However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. Again, never reported in the American media. Now Le Pen always had a huge loyal rightwing following, including in the military, and his daughter might be France's next president. Yet his house was burned down and he was almost killed. So after that, I'd think that any French "conspiracy theorist" decided it might be healthier to avoid promoting such nonsense in public.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Lot, @biz

    “However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. ”

    It’s also possible that Le Pen is senile and that both his assertion about Charlie Hebdo and his house burning down are due to dementia. Old people often inadvertainly start fires.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Mr. Anon


    It’s also possible that Le Pen is senile and that both his assertion about Charlie Hebdo and his house burning down are due to dementia. Old people often inadvertainly start fires.
     
    Well, that's certainly possible, although he came across as totally lucid in the interview, which was only reported in the Daily Telegraph. He was simply pointing out that the extremely professional nature of the attack seemed more like something associated with "security forces" than random jihadis. And perhaps it was indeed a total coincidence that his large manor house burned to the ground nearly killing him almost immediately afterwards, again an event only reported in the Daily Telegraph. Regardless, the massacre of those cartoonists hardly served the Islamicist cause, given that the French government immediately reacted by launching widespread arrests of anyone critical of either Israel or Jews, and loosening the restrictions on long-term preventive detention without charges.

    Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I've seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it's not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries. Also, the short woman in question was the mother of a newborn infant, and I've never previously heard of such an individual launching a suicidal commando-terrorist raid, again showing the devilish nature of Islam.

    Replies: @Hepp

  295. @Almost Missouri
    @SPMoore8


    "someone has to make $12 an hour gutting steers eight hours a day"
     
    Really? Why can't they make $20/hour or more? After all, it may be unpleasant, but it takes skill to do well, like, say, plumbing, which pays $40 - $60 an hour.

    "and if you won’t do it, and I won’t do it, some illegal will."
     
    As it happens, I know quite a few slaughterhouse workers across several states. They are nearly 100% blue collar whites from families whose names go back to colonial times. They earn $15 to $30 an hour and live okay but not great.

    Clearly, old-stock American citizens will do this kind of work. They just won't do it in the low-wage, low-quality, low-safety environments that the illegal-fueled mega-meat processors prefer.

    The problem is not American unwillingness to do unpleasant or difficult work. The problem is the ready availability of a low-wage, low-quality, low-risk-aversion work force: a work force that drives down wages even for those who don't participate in it.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Tom Arnold worked in a slaughterhouse before he was famous.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Dave Pinsen

    He has the slaughterhouse worker's build.

  296. @Steve Sailer
    @Flip

    And in "Brave New World." He was a big deal.

    Replies: @Steve from Detroit, @Dave Pinsen

    I thought the Ford in Brave New World was supposed to be Freud.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Dave Pinsen

    Ford and Freud have merged together in the popular mind after 632 years.

    Replies: @Lurker

  297. @Perspective
    @SPMoore8

    "On the contrary, they’ll probably be more like the two adventuresses from Voronezh who were deeply enmeshed in the San Berdoo terrorist attack. So, no thanks."

    It depends on how rigorous the filter is for new immigrants. It would be pointless to bring in Ukrainians for stoop labour when machines can mostly do the same thing now. Canada and the US could probably bring in 200k Ukrainians (skilled workers) each year for the next 5-8 years or so without breaking a sweat. White America could use a little demographic reinforcement.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    My impression, from knowing a number of local Ukrainians is that we may have already gotten past the cream of the crop. The ones I knew 20 years ago generally had working class parents but went on to become professionals themselves: engineers, scientists, journalists, finance types. Now we seem to be getting more strippers.

    It’s kind of like what Joel Klein wrote about Indians in his hometown of Edison, NJ: when the first few came, and they were scientists and engineers, he and his neighbors figured India was full of geniuses. Then when later immigrants were lower down the totem pole, they started to realize why India was so poor.

  298. @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    Regarding Trump’s birtherism, I doubt that at any time Trump had a sincere belief Obama was born in Kenya...I think your Latino crime articles were some combination of trolling/playing devil’s advocate/Straussian subterfuge
     
    Congratulations for being telepathic! So even if Donald Trump goes on national TV and promotes a crazy-conspiracy-theory, you know he doesn't really mean it.

    As for the other matter, I'd be the first to admit I'm no great expert on "conspiracy theories," whether JFK, 9-11, or any of the others; I have my opinions, and that's about it. However, based on all my published work, I do think I'm very much a leading national expert on ethnic sociology, include crime rates, and six years on, I'd say I'm now about 99% confident that my Hispanic Crime analysis was correct, so much so that I can't even remember the last time anyone seriously disputed it. So if some anonymous racialist commenter such as yourself casually dismisses it, that simply demonstrates you're just an innumerate racialist nitwit. The nitwit part has already long been obvious based on your numerous other comments, including on this very thread.

    Personally, I think the greatest weakness of "racialism" is that it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Lot

    Scott Adams’ take on Trump’s birtherism:

    Did Trump’s involvement in the birther thing confuse you? Were you wondering how Trump could believe Obama was not a citizen? The answer is that Trump never believed anything about Obama’s place of birth. The facts were irrelevant, so he ignored them while finding a place in the hearts of conservatives. For later.

    This is later. He plans ahead.

  299. Lot says:
    @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    Regarding Trump’s birtherism, I doubt that at any time Trump had a sincere belief Obama was born in Kenya...I think your Latino crime articles were some combination of trolling/playing devil’s advocate/Straussian subterfuge
     
    Congratulations for being telepathic! So even if Donald Trump goes on national TV and promotes a crazy-conspiracy-theory, you know he doesn't really mean it.

    As for the other matter, I'd be the first to admit I'm no great expert on "conspiracy theories," whether JFK, 9-11, or any of the others; I have my opinions, and that's about it. However, based on all my published work, I do think I'm very much a leading national expert on ethnic sociology, include crime rates, and six years on, I'd say I'm now about 99% confident that my Hispanic Crime analysis was correct, so much so that I can't even remember the last time anyone seriously disputed it. So if some anonymous racialist commenter such as yourself casually dismisses it, that simply demonstrates you're just an innumerate racialist nitwit. The nitwit part has already long been obvious based on your numerous other comments, including on this very thread.

    Personally, I think the greatest weakness of "racialism" is that it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it...

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Lot

    Personally, I think the greatest weakness of “racialism” is that it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it…

    Ron, would you mind offering your definition of “racialism,” which I don’t think anyone else here or elsewhere uses other than you? Is “people who believe there are genetic racial differences in IQ and criminal impulsiveness” what you are getting at?

    Regarding the proposition that we “racialists” have a disproportionate attraction to “innumerate nitwits,” I think you have it exactly wrong. Racial egalitarianism is profoundly innumerate and anti-scientific.

    Congratulations for being telepathic! So even if Donald Trump goes on national TV and promotes a crazy-conspiracy-theory, you know he doesn’t really mean it.

    You do not have to be telepath to see that being insincere often is advantageous. And a salesman/politician/reality TV star like Trump lying? OMG perish the thought! I say this liking Trump a lot, but he is pretty clearly not someone like, say, Steve, who thinks being truthful and being right are ends in themselves. I hate the game, not the player.

    I’d say I’m now about 99% confident that my Hispanic Crime analysis was correct, so much so that I can’t even remember the last time anyone seriously disputed it. So if some anonymous racialist commenter such as yourself casually dismisses it, that simply demonstrates you’re just an innumerate racialist nitwit.

    I promise you, I am not innumerate, and I did in fact dispute it several times here, both in comments to your articles and on iSteve threads.

    You know, I already apologized in advance for doubting your sincerity in writing it. Reading your comments here, I am starting to doubt my doubts. (At times I have a lot of fun trolling and playing devil’s advocate, perhaps I was projecting.)

    I am actually not sure exactly how much we disagree. Perhaps you could tell me if any of the following is inaccurate?

    Your view is that:

    1. US Hispanics have a crime rate only a bit higher than non-hispanic whites when controlling for age and sex.

    2. The difference is primarily the result of higher crime rates of Caribbean hispanics.

    3. It is unlikely there is any significance between the crime rate of Mexican Americans and Non-Hispanic whites.

    My view is that:

    1. It is indeed the case that Hispanic crime rates are nothing close to black crime rates, a point you make a few times.

    2. One of your primary methods, looking at overall crime rates compared to a jurisdiction’s hispanic fraction, is fundamentally flawed. You have to concede that the method does not work if Hispanics tend to live in areas with whites who are below average in criminality, and tend not to live in areas where whites are above average in criminality.

    But as Steve has pointed out, Los Angeles whites have very, very low crime rates. I think if we looked at the question, we’d find that it is exactly the case that hispanics tend to live in the same jurisdictions as low-crime whites.

    3. Looking at published crime rates is also flawed given that hispanics are less likely to report crime. And can you dispute that an illegal hispanic immigrant is less likely to report a crime to the police than a non-hispanic white? That a legal hispanic immigrant or native hispanic citizen who has an illegal in their household is less likely to report a crime to the police? That someone who is not fluent in English is less likely to report a crime to the police?

    4. Hispanics are much more likely to be murder victims, and that most murders are intra-racial.

    5. Mestizo and mulatto Hispanic countries tend to have very high crime rates, while heavily white areas rarely do. And no area with a large majority of whites from inside the Hanjul line have crime rates that even approach that of non-white Latin America.

    6. There is not only a lot of data suggesting that European people have lower crime rates than mestizos and mulattos, but a good explanation of why. Specifically, Pinker describes the following factors:

    The Leviathan – the rise of the modern nation-state and judiciary “with a monopoly on the legitimate use of force,” which “can defuse the [individual] temptation of exploitative attack, inhibit the impulse for revenge, and circumvent … self-serving biases.”
    Commerce – the rise of “technological progress [allowing] the exchange of goods and services over longer distances and larger groups of trading partners,” so that “other people become more valuable alive than dead” and “are less likely to become targets of demonization and dehumanization.”
    Feminization – increasing respect for “the interests and values of women.”
    Cosmopolitanism – the rise of forces such as literacy, mobility, and mass media, which “can prompt people to take the perspectives of people unlike themselves and to expand their circle of sympathy to embrace them.”
    The Escalator of Reason – an “intensifying application of knowledge and rationality to human affairs,” which “can force people to recognize the futility of cycles of violence, to ramp down the privileging of their own interests over others’, and to reframe violence as a problem to be solved rather than a contest to be won.”

    Every single one of these factors applies far more strongly to the native peoples of Europe (and NE Asia) than to the native peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas, from which US Hispanics, in substantial part, are derived from.

    7. Pretty much every demographic factor we know is correlated to crime is more present in US Hispanics than non-Hispanic whites. Illegitimacy? Check. High school drop-out? Check. Poverty? Check.

    I’d enjoy expanding on these points further, with references to crime data and other sources. But your general responses to me of insults indicates to me that you’d rather I not. Since I like you and this is your website, I therefore won’t without specific invitation.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Lot

    references to crime data

    The FBI's UCR data are flawed. No intelligent scholar that studies crime relies upon the reports. If they use the data it is flagged. Amateur social scientists find numbers and treat them like they are from the periodic table. One can "prove" anything with the right numbers.

    Replies: @Lot

  300. @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    I thought the Ford in Brave New World was supposed to be Freud.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Ford and Freud have merged together in the popular mind after 632 years.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Steve Sailer

    So that's why my car won't start!

  301. Lot says:
    @Ron Unz
    @Charles Erwin Wilson


    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia
     
    Hard to say, and my friend never passed along any particular theory, even after checking with his French contacts. It's obviously much easier to argue that something was a false-flag than to figure out exactly who organized it.

    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting "free expression." For example, France's most popular comedian is that black guy who criticizes Israel, and after the attacks, he wrote one very mild joke on his Facebook page and was immediately arrested and sent off to prison. Basically, if this webzine were in France, most of the writers and commenters would surely be behind bars.

    There was another interesting detail never reported in the American newspapers. Even though my friend indicated that there were *huge* private suspicions of a false-flag attack in France, absolutely no one dared say anything publicly. However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. Again, never reported in the American media. Now Le Pen always had a huge loyal rightwing following, including in the military, and his daughter might be France's next president. Yet his house was burned down and he was almost killed. So after that, I'd think that any French "conspiracy theorist" decided it might be healthier to avoid promoting such nonsense in public.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Lot, @biz

    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting “free expression.”

    At a certain point you have to start picking and choosing your Jewish conspiracy theories. Are Jews trying to stop Shoah 2.0 by undermining French white numbers and solidarity by importing millions of Muslims, or are they trying to help the French nationalist right by false-flagging Muslims by committing mass murder, disproportionately of fellow Jews, and blaming Muslim immigrants?

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Lot

    it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it…

    I think that this is the ticket, it's the only thing that makes sense of it all.

  302. @Steve Sailer
    @Dave Pinsen

    Ford and Freud have merged together in the popular mind after 632 years.

    Replies: @Lurker

    So that’s why my car won’t start!

  303. @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    Personally, I think the greatest weakness of “racialism” is that it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it…
     
    Ron, would you mind offering your definition of "racialism," which I don't think anyone else here or elsewhere uses other than you? Is "people who believe there are genetic racial differences in IQ and criminal impulsiveness" what you are getting at?

    Regarding the proposition that we "racialists" have a disproportionate attraction to "innumerate nitwits," I think you have it exactly wrong. Racial egalitarianism is profoundly innumerate and anti-scientific.


    Congratulations for being telepathic! So even if Donald Trump goes on national TV and promotes a crazy-conspiracy-theory, you know he doesn’t really mean it.
     
    You do not have to be telepath to see that being insincere often is advantageous. And a salesman/politician/reality TV star like Trump lying? OMG perish the thought! I say this liking Trump a lot, but he is pretty clearly not someone like, say, Steve, who thinks being truthful and being right are ends in themselves. I hate the game, not the player.

    I’d say I’m now about 99% confident that my Hispanic Crime analysis was correct, so much so that I can’t even remember the last time anyone seriously disputed it. So if some anonymous racialist commenter such as yourself casually dismisses it, that simply demonstrates you’re just an innumerate racialist nitwit.
     
    I promise you, I am not innumerate, and I did in fact dispute it several times here, both in comments to your articles and on iSteve threads.

    You know, I already apologized in advance for doubting your sincerity in writing it. Reading your comments here, I am starting to doubt my doubts. (At times I have a lot of fun trolling and playing devil's advocate, perhaps I was projecting.)

    I am actually not sure exactly how much we disagree. Perhaps you could tell me if any of the following is inaccurate?

    Your view is that:

    1. US Hispanics have a crime rate only a bit higher than non-hispanic whites when controlling for age and sex.

    2. The difference is primarily the result of higher crime rates of Caribbean hispanics.

    3. It is unlikely there is any significance between the crime rate of Mexican Americans and Non-Hispanic whites.

    My view is that:

    1. It is indeed the case that Hispanic crime rates are nothing close to black crime rates, a point you make a few times.

    2. One of your primary methods, looking at overall crime rates compared to a jurisdiction's hispanic fraction, is fundamentally flawed. You have to concede that the method does not work if Hispanics tend to live in areas with whites who are below average in criminality, and tend not to live in areas where whites are above average in criminality.

    But as Steve has pointed out, Los Angeles whites have very, very low crime rates. I think if we looked at the question, we'd find that it is exactly the case that hispanics tend to live in the same jurisdictions as low-crime whites.

    3. Looking at published crime rates is also flawed given that hispanics are less likely to report crime. And can you dispute that an illegal hispanic immigrant is less likely to report a crime to the police than a non-hispanic white? That a legal hispanic immigrant or native hispanic citizen who has an illegal in their household is less likely to report a crime to the police? That someone who is not fluent in English is less likely to report a crime to the police?

    4. Hispanics are much more likely to be murder victims, and that most murders are intra-racial.

    5. Mestizo and mulatto Hispanic countries tend to have very high crime rates, while heavily white areas rarely do. And no area with a large majority of whites from inside the Hanjul line have crime rates that even approach that of non-white Latin America.

    6. There is not only a lot of data suggesting that European people have lower crime rates than mestizos and mulattos, but a good explanation of why. Specifically, Pinker describes the following factors:


    The Leviathan – the rise of the modern nation-state and judiciary "with a monopoly on the legitimate use of force," which "can defuse the [individual] temptation of exploitative attack, inhibit the impulse for revenge, and circumvent ... self-serving biases."
    Commerce – the rise of "technological progress [allowing] the exchange of goods and services over longer distances and larger groups of trading partners," so that "other people become more valuable alive than dead" and "are less likely to become targets of demonization and dehumanization."
    Feminization – increasing respect for "the interests and values of women."
    Cosmopolitanism – the rise of forces such as literacy, mobility, and mass media, which "can prompt people to take the perspectives of people unlike themselves and to expand their circle of sympathy to embrace them."
    The Escalator of Reason – an "intensifying application of knowledge and rationality to human affairs," which "can force people to recognize the futility of cycles of violence, to ramp down the privileging of their own interests over others', and to reframe violence as a problem to be solved rather than a contest to be won."
     
    Every single one of these factors applies far more strongly to the native peoples of Europe (and NE Asia) than to the native peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas, from which US Hispanics, in substantial part, are derived from.

    7. Pretty much every demographic factor we know is correlated to crime is more present in US Hispanics than non-Hispanic whites. Illegitimacy? Check. High school drop-out? Check. Poverty? Check.

    I'd enjoy expanding on these points further, with references to crime data and other sources. But your general responses to me of insults indicates to me that you'd rather I not. Since I like you and this is your website, I therefore won't without specific invitation.

    Replies: @iffen

    references to crime data

    The FBI’s UCR data are flawed. No intelligent scholar that studies crime relies upon the reports. If they use the data it is flagged. Amateur social scientists find numbers and treat them like they are from the periodic table. One can “prove” anything with the right numbers.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @iffen

    I agree that crime data is flawed. But you can still work with flawed data. A good example is the Color of Crime report.

    The problem of hispanics being counted as white is actually becoming less of a problem over time. Here in San Diego, we have long had a hispanic category. I found that in the mid-2000's that about 1/3 of criminals with spanish surnames were being counted as white rather than hispanic.

    Now it is more like 1 in 20 when I checked again about 2 years ago. I also saw this practice had completely ended checking out a few more counties. Basically you go to the county prison website, which often have prisoner lookup features, and type in a hispanic name. Are the resulting prisoners listed as white or hispanic?

  304. @Ron Unz
    @iffen


    Frankly, I don’t know the truth of these conspiracy matters.

    Why do they all end as being part of the Jewspiracy?
     
    It's really not very complicated. Large-scale "conspiracies" or "cover-ups" can only be effectively maintained if their backers have substantial or (preferably) overwhelming control over the media. Thus, maintaining an anti-Jewish "conspiracy" is simply an impossibility in present-day America. A pro-Jewish "conspiracy" on the other hand, well...

    Since I have the impression that you're some sort of racialist, let's put it in terms that you might understand. Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?...

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @iffen, @Almost Missouri

    “Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?”

    Somewhere I heard that prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant Asian students from elite universities, and they were able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story. Now if only I could remember where I heard that…

    Just wanted to to say thank you, Mr. Unz, for sponsoring this site. Whatever its flaws, its virtues really are a beacon unto the nations.

    • Replies: @grmbl
    @Almost Missouri


    Somewhere I heard that prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant Asian students from elite universities, and they were able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story.
     
    Maybe there isn't anything to this "story"? Unz was never a professor at Harvard. Lubos Motl was a Fellow and later assistant professor at Harvard before he resigned voluntarily, read what he has to say about the topic in this Disqus thread: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thereferenceframe/the_reference_frame_extracurricular_activities_are_indeed_just_extra/#comment-1587626186

    tl;dr Motl thinks Unz is full of it. Mainstream media ignored both Unz' claims and Motl's dismissive treatment of them. Assuming that they were prevented from running the story by "prominent admissions officers at top universities" sounds ... well, far-fetched.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Almost Missouri

  305. @Mr. Anon
    @Ron Unz

    "However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. "

    It's also possible that Le Pen is senile and that both his assertion about Charlie Hebdo and his house burning down are due to dementia. Old people often inadvertainly start fires.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    It’s also possible that Le Pen is senile and that both his assertion about Charlie Hebdo and his house burning down are due to dementia. Old people often inadvertainly start fires.

    Well, that’s certainly possible, although he came across as totally lucid in the interview, which was only reported in the Daily Telegraph. He was simply pointing out that the extremely professional nature of the attack seemed more like something associated with “security forces” than random jihadis. And perhaps it was indeed a total coincidence that his large manor house burned to the ground nearly killing him almost immediately afterwards, again an event only reported in the Daily Telegraph. Regardless, the massacre of those cartoonists hardly served the Islamicist cause, given that the French government immediately reacted by launching widespread arrests of anyone critical of either Israel or Jews, and loosening the restrictions on long-term preventive detention without charges.

    Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I’ve seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it’s not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries. Also, the short woman in question was the mother of a newborn infant, and I’ve never previously heard of such an individual launching a suicidal commando-terrorist raid, again showing the devilish nature of Islam.

    • Replies: @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I’ve seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it’s not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries. Also, the short woman in question was the mother of a newborn infant, and I’ve never previously heard of such an individual launching a suicidal commando-terrorist raid, again showing the devilish nature of Islam.

     

    Well, there's a long literature on the unreliability of eye witness reports, especially under duress. I remember hearing about the three white men, and decided to dig a bit into this. I have been able to trace the "three white men" theory to two sources.

    The first was a guy named Juan Hernandez who said he saw three white men driving fast away from the scene. No claim is made that he saw them shooting anyone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s45OeXNRZng

    The second seems more credible. Sally Abdelmageed says she saw three white men actually doing the shooting from outside the location. I note Abdelmageed is a Muslim name, and watching the interview with CBS, she goes out of her way to say that the men were white, which I think is sort of unusual.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/witness-describes-the-san-bernardino-shooting/

    In the aftermath of the Ferguson events, apparently there were all these black witnesses said that they saw Michael Brown doing "Hands Up, Don't Shoot," but when the FBI interviewed them and pressed them on it many admitted that they didn't see the event and said that they wanted to be part of the story. Perhaps Abdelmageed saw the other guy on TV talking about the three white men driving off, and she wanted to get in on the story while also taking a stand against Islamophobia.

    Although the "three white men" story was everywhere in the initial reports, it appears that it all comes down to the testimony of this one woman. What she said has to be balanced against the credibility of the room full of survivors, including the dozens of people who were shot and survived and who knew Farouk, and who have never contradicted the official narrative.

    Replies: @iffen, @Ron Unz

  306. @5371
    @Ron Unz

    Is your friend in business?

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Is your friend in business?

    No, in public policy. The sort of person who might have an (outside) chance of becoming a Cabinet Secretary in a future presidential administrative.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Ron Unz

    ""Is your friend in business?""

    "No, in public policy. The sort of person who might have an (outside) chance of becoming a Cabinet Secretary in a future presidential administrative."

    Somebody like Paul Craig Roberts used to be.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

  307. @Lot
    @Ron Unz


    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting “free expression.”
     
    At a certain point you have to start picking and choosing your Jewish conspiracy theories. Are Jews trying to stop Shoah 2.0 by undermining French white numbers and solidarity by importing millions of Muslims, or are they trying to help the French nationalist right by false-flagging Muslims by committing mass murder, disproportionately of fellow Jews, and blaming Muslim immigrants?

    Replies: @iffen

    it tends to attract such huge numbers of innumerate nitwits, who help to discredit it…

    I think that this is the ticket, it’s the only thing that makes sense of it all.

  308. @Dave Pinsen
    @Almost Missouri

    Tom Arnold worked in a slaughterhouse before he was famous.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    He has the slaughterhouse worker’s build.

  309. biz says:
    @Ron Unz
    @Charles Erwin Wilson


    Okay, so Charlie Hebdo Muslim Jihadism is a ploy by the French? To what end? Cui bono exempli gratia
     
    Hard to say, and my friend never passed along any particular theory, even after checking with his French contacts. It's obviously much easier to argue that something was a false-flag than to figure out exactly who organized it.

    However, a good possibility might be pro-Israel groups since the attack was used as an justification for a massive crackdown on all anti-Israel Muslim groups or indeed anyone else willing to criticize Jews about anything, all in the name of protecting "free expression." For example, France's most popular comedian is that black guy who criticizes Israel, and after the attacks, he wrote one very mild joke on his Facebook page and was immediately arrested and sent off to prison. Basically, if this webzine were in France, most of the writers and commenters would surely be behind bars.

    There was another interesting detail never reported in the American newspapers. Even though my friend indicated that there were *huge* private suspicions of a false-flag attack in France, absolutely no one dared say anything publicly. However, rightwinger Jean-Marie Le Pen is in his eighties and (like James Watson) tends to speak his mind, so eventually in one interview, he said the attacks seemed suspicious to him, and might be a false-flag. Naturally, that was never reported in the American MSM. Then, by purest coincidence, a week or so after that interview, he was almost killed when his house mysteriously burned down. Again, never reported in the American media. Now Le Pen always had a huge loyal rightwing following, including in the military, and his daughter might be France's next president. Yet his house was burned down and he was almost killed. So after that, I'd think that any French "conspiracy theorist" decided it might be healthier to avoid promoting such nonsense in public.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Lot, @biz

    That ‘black guy’ comic doesn’t “criticize Israel.” He makes antisemitic skits that mostly have nothing do do with Israel. His comedy album was called “Give us back Jesus.” His latest film, “L’Antisémite,” ridicules Auschwitz by showing black-and-white images of an American soldier inspecting a gas chamber and mocking tools, like shower heads, used by the Nazis to kill Jews.

    The rest of your comment is as lucid on other matters as it is in your knowledge of Dieudonne’s repertoire. Jews are pulling off false flag attacks to demonize Muslims? I thought that Jews were flooding France with Muslims to dilute the French and forestall another Holocaust. These conspiracy theories are contradictory in addition to every other problem with them. Again, you are being fringe and outrageous for the sake of being fringe and outrageous, rather than applying a plausibility filter to ideas.

  310. biz says:
    @Ron Unz
    @biz


    Let me save you the time. I’ve looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.
     
    Well, I really need to get back to my own work, but as a closing comment I'll make one more overall point.

    I'm not too familiar with "biz", but a quick look at his commenting history seems to indicate he's some ignorant Jewish neocon nitwit who recently starting hanging out here, and his opinion isn't worth anything.

    On the other hand, the general point he raises is an important one. To some extent, accepting the possible reality of "conspiracy theories" is a bifurcated all or nothing verdict. If you believe that only one or two of them are true, you're faced with the massive implausibility of how the MSM could have possibly covered them up for so many years or decades. The argument from presumption is a very powerful one.

    However, once you start to accept that a consider number of these "conspiracy theories" are true, then the argument from MSM silence completely disappears, and it becomes very possible, even likely that numerous others are true as well. To use the most extreme example, if JFK was killed by a "conspiracy"---maybe one organized by LBJ---and the MSM covered it up for 50 years, then you'd have to admit that the MSM could cover up anything else, absolutely anything else. This doesn't necessarily mean that any other particular conspiracy is true, but it does mean that you should be very cautious about just dismissing them out of hand. And given the very long list of "big ones," it seems likely that many, perhaps even most are true.

    I was arguing exactly this point a week or two ago with a skeptical mainstream friend of mine, and the analogy I used was the Bill Cosby case. Over the years, I'd occasionally seen tiny items buried in the NYT about some woman here or there accusing Cosby of drugging and raping her, and although I never really knew what to think, I leaned towards skepticism. After all I said, Cosby was a big celebrity, and if there were any solid basis for the charges, surely they'd be on the front page instead and would have gotten much more MSM coverage.

    Then, over the last year, one thing led to another, and now something like 87 separate women have come forward, accusing Cosby of drugging and raping them. I really haven't paid any attention to the case, but based on those numbers I'd say I'm 100% certain that most or nearly all of the accusations are true. As Stalin said, quantity has a quality of its own.

    So the point with "conspiracy theories" long ignored or dismissed by the MSM is that there are so *many* individual ones, each separately backed by persuasive evidence or highly regarded proponents, that the general MSM credibility against them totally dissipates, and in many or even most cases, that's really the only argument against them. So that I'd guess that a pretty large fraction of the more heavily promoted ones are more or less true.

    Replies: @biz, @Mr. Anon

    Ignoring the ad hominems and addressing the substance of your comment, such that it is, your Cosby example actually shows the opposite of what you think it does. Cosby’s antics were reported in the media, at first grudgingly in throw-away articles on the back page and later it was front page news. It was not possible for Cosby’s illegal / embarrassing behavior to be kept a secret indefinitely, and that was a secret that was about 1/1000th as juicy and about 1/100th as widely disseminated as any of the commonly touted conspiracy theories.

    The actual situation is the opposite of what you have supposed. The implausibility of one conspiracy theory in turn reflects poorly on all the others. For example people claim that the MSM and thousands of people in the government are and have been for 50 years keeping the secret that the moon landing was faked on a soundstage. But why would Brezhnev and Pravda also cover that up if it were true? They were tracking the whole thing. It is completely implausible. Clearly in this case people who accuse the MSM and thousands of people in the government of covering something up are being ridiculous. This in turn makes the whole idea of accusations of the MSM and thousands of people in the government being able to keep an unbelievably profound secret for 50 years in any other case even less credible.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @biz

    Ben Franklin said, "Two can keep a secret, if one of them is dead".

    Replies: @Brutusale

  311. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Interesting idea. Screwing up in a blast furnace could get your fellow workers killed. Screwing up on an auto assembly line could get the customer killed, but that's not likely to be much skin off your nose or your coworkers.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    Interesting theory, but Cleveland and Gary are/were also steel towns, and they didn’t do so well…

    Topography seems to have more empirical validity, though I don’t see why it should.

  312. @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    But Ann Coulter, by herself, is on TV a lot more than any and all combined 9-11 truthers you could name. And then there is the matter of Donald Trump, who was nominated by the party that held the white house from 1981-1993 and 2001-2009.
     
    You're just making yourself look both ignorant and ridiculous. Let's take Trump, whom you apparently admire and regard as the touchstone of media visibility.

    Surely you remember that just a few years ago Trump held a national press conference to declare that Obama's birth certificate was a fake and that Obama was probably born in Kenya or something? Personally, I very much doubt Obama was born outside the U.S., but that's clearly a super-conspiracy-theory, and Trump is its most prominent national advocate.

    Now Trump is obviously just a loudmouth, but for many years his closest political advisor and strategist has been Roger Stone, who is treated *very* respectfully in the NYT and the rest of the MSM. Surely you must be aware that just a few years ago Stone published a book called "LBJ: The Man Who Killed Kennedy," in which he provided a massive accumulation of evidence, much of it based on his personal knowledge, that LBJ was the mastermind behind JFK's assassination. Offhand, I found it reasonably persuasive, with the biggest problem being that Stone's a notoriously slippery political operative, so perhaps he just invented some of the factual details in his book.

    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.

    Thus, both your hero Trump and his closest political advisor are ultra-conspiracy-people. Or weren't you aware of this before you published your silly comment?

    Replies: @Lot, @wren, @ben tillman

    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.

    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?

    • Replies: @JackOH
    @ben tillman

    See, e. g., "No One Would Listen", by Harry Markopolos, the guy who tried to reveal the Madoff Ponzi scheme.

    When I was on the local public stump (non-electoral, issue-oriented), I was offered sex, advancement, given a very minor rough-up by a crooked cop, smeared, had falsified documents submitted against me by local worthies (I won in legal proceedings), etc. I trudged on, and had a handful of supporters, but I was damned scared for a while. Finally I gave up because I was exhausted.

    So, yeah, I agree with you 100% it's possible there are a lot of folks with deep knowledge of a subject that goes against a conventional narrative, and who sensibly don't want to risk career, income, reputation, etc., for the sake of alerting public opinion that something's seriously wrong.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @ben tillman

    "My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?"

    The problem with most of them is that there is no evidence for them.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Rob McX

    , @Ron Unz
    @ben tillman


    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?
     
    Exactly! And that's why I'd always casually dismissed the possibility of any "conspiracy theories" being true until about a decade ago.

    My reasoning was that a serious "conspiracy" might have 100 different components, surely at least a few of which would quickly come to the attention of the media. And once that happened, the media would naturally begin digging up the others, until the entire thing soon unraveled. My mistaken assumption was the behavior of the media.

    That's why the McCain/POW case was such a powerful datapoint in my mind. Sydney Schanberg, one of the most highly regarded journalists of his generation, puts together a mountain of enormously persuasive evidence to uncover the "story of the century," with his findings independently backed up by numerous other individuals, including two former Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee. Absolutely no one seems to provide any contradictory evidence refuting his claims, but the entire MSM simply ignores it: "We see nothing! We see nothing!"

    If the MSM could simply ignore the McCain/POW story, they could ignore absolutely anything. And soon afterward, I started wondering for the first time about the whole JFK assassination...

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    , @Triumph104
    @ben tillman


    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?
     
    Carl Bernstein's ex-wife Nora Ephron would always tell people the real name of Deep Throat but no one believed her.

    Ephron's marriage with Bernstein ended acrimoniously, and after the breakup Ephron was open about the identity of Deep Throat. She revealed his identity to her son Jacob and anyone else who asked. She once commented, "I would give speeches to 500 people and someone would say, 'Do you know who Deep Throat is?' And I would say, 'It's Mark Felt.'" Classmates of Jacob Bernstein at the Dalton School and Vassar College recall Jacob's revealing to numerous people that Felt was Deep Throat. Curiously, this revelation did not get any real attention from the media during the many years that the identity of Deep Throat was a mystery. Ephron later conceded that "No one, apart from my sons, believed me." Ephron was invited by Arianna Huffington to write about the experience in the Huffington Post, for which she was a regular blogger and part-time editor.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Ephron#Ephron_and_Deep_Throat

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  313. @ben tillman
    @Ron Unz


    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.
     
    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?

    Replies: @JackOH, @Mr. Anon, @Ron Unz, @Triumph104

    See, e. g., “No One Would Listen”, by Harry Markopolos, the guy who tried to reveal the Madoff Ponzi scheme.

    When I was on the local public stump (non-electoral, issue-oriented), I was offered sex, advancement, given a very minor rough-up by a crooked cop, smeared, had falsified documents submitted against me by local worthies (I won in legal proceedings), etc. I trudged on, and had a handful of supporters, but I was damned scared for a while. Finally I gave up because I was exhausted.

    So, yeah, I agree with you 100% it’s possible there are a lot of folks with deep knowledge of a subject that goes against a conventional narrative, and who sensibly don’t want to risk career, income, reputation, etc., for the sake of alerting public opinion that something’s seriously wrong.

  314. “And perhaps it was indeed a total coincidence that his large manor house burned to the ground nearly killing him almost immediately afterwards, again an event only reported in the Daily Telegraph.”

    It didn’t burn to the ground nor was Le Pen almost killed, not according to the Telegraph article. Here is a picture of his house, post-fire:

    Le Pen House Fire

    “Regardless, the massacre of those cartoonists hardly served the Islamicist cause, given that the French government immediately reacted by launching widespread arrests of anyone critical of either Israel or Jews, and loosening the restrictions on long-term preventive detention without charges.”

    Are the outcomes of people’s actions always guaranteed to accomplish the aims they intended?

    “Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I’ve seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it’s not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries.”

    Or that a lot of people aren’t very observant, especially so in unusual and dangerous situations. A group of people who witness a car accident often can’t agree on who was at fault.

  315. @ben tillman
    @Ron Unz


    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.
     
    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?

    Replies: @JackOH, @Mr. Anon, @Ron Unz, @Triumph104

    “My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?”

    The problem with most of them is that there is no evidence for them.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Mr. Anon

    Google "Operation Northwoods."

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Rob McX
    @Mr. Anon

    That's certainly true. But then perhaps the ridiculous conspiracy theories are themselves false flag operations to deflect attention from the more reasonable ones and give conspiracy theories in general a bad name. Within an hour or two of any mass shooting or other atrocity, there are already dozens of "explanations" online showing how it was a setup. These are obviously rubbish written by people who couldn't even have had time to study the facts. Anyone seeking an alternative theory to the MSM narrative will soon tire of wading through this drivel. But perhaps its very purpose is to bury the needle of plausible conspiracy theory in a haystack of incoherent nonsense.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  316. @Ron Unz
    @5371


    Is your friend in business?
     
    No, in public policy. The sort of person who might have an (outside) chance of becoming a Cabinet Secretary in a future presidential administrative.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “”Is your friend in business?””

    “No, in public policy. The sort of person who might have an (outside) chance of becoming a Cabinet Secretary in a future presidential administrative.”

    Somebody like Paul Craig Roberts used to be.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Mr. Anon


    Somebody like Paul Craig Roberts used to be.
     
    Yes, I'd say his current status is roughly comparable or perhaps a bit higher than that enjoyed by Paul Craig Roberts about 25-30 years ago.
  317. @Ron Unz
    @biz


    Let me save you the time. I’ve looked into these conspiracy theories and they are all implausible, banal, and repetitive.
     
    Well, I really need to get back to my own work, but as a closing comment I'll make one more overall point.

    I'm not too familiar with "biz", but a quick look at his commenting history seems to indicate he's some ignorant Jewish neocon nitwit who recently starting hanging out here, and his opinion isn't worth anything.

    On the other hand, the general point he raises is an important one. To some extent, accepting the possible reality of "conspiracy theories" is a bifurcated all or nothing verdict. If you believe that only one or two of them are true, you're faced with the massive implausibility of how the MSM could have possibly covered them up for so many years or decades. The argument from presumption is a very powerful one.

    However, once you start to accept that a consider number of these "conspiracy theories" are true, then the argument from MSM silence completely disappears, and it becomes very possible, even likely that numerous others are true as well. To use the most extreme example, if JFK was killed by a "conspiracy"---maybe one organized by LBJ---and the MSM covered it up for 50 years, then you'd have to admit that the MSM could cover up anything else, absolutely anything else. This doesn't necessarily mean that any other particular conspiracy is true, but it does mean that you should be very cautious about just dismissing them out of hand. And given the very long list of "big ones," it seems likely that many, perhaps even most are true.

    I was arguing exactly this point a week or two ago with a skeptical mainstream friend of mine, and the analogy I used was the Bill Cosby case. Over the years, I'd occasionally seen tiny items buried in the NYT about some woman here or there accusing Cosby of drugging and raping her, and although I never really knew what to think, I leaned towards skepticism. After all I said, Cosby was a big celebrity, and if there were any solid basis for the charges, surely they'd be on the front page instead and would have gotten much more MSM coverage.

    Then, over the last year, one thing led to another, and now something like 87 separate women have come forward, accusing Cosby of drugging and raping them. I really haven't paid any attention to the case, but based on those numbers I'd say I'm 100% certain that most or nearly all of the accusations are true. As Stalin said, quantity has a quality of its own.

    So the point with "conspiracy theories" long ignored or dismissed by the MSM is that there are so *many* individual ones, each separately backed by persuasive evidence or highly regarded proponents, that the general MSM credibility against them totally dissipates, and in many or even most cases, that's really the only argument against them. So that I'd guess that a pretty large fraction of the more heavily promoted ones are more or less true.

    Replies: @biz, @Mr. Anon

    “So the point with “conspiracy theories” long ignored or dismissed by the MSM is that there are so *many* individual ones, each separately backed by persuasive evidence or highly regarded proponents, that the general MSM credibility against them totally dissipates, and in many or even most cases, that’s really the only argument against them. So that I’d guess that a pretty large fraction of the more heavily promoted ones are more or less true.

    Does that include the “Moon Hoax” conspiracy?

  318. Lot says:
    @iffen
    @Lot

    references to crime data

    The FBI's UCR data are flawed. No intelligent scholar that studies crime relies upon the reports. If they use the data it is flagged. Amateur social scientists find numbers and treat them like they are from the periodic table. One can "prove" anything with the right numbers.

    Replies: @Lot

    I agree that crime data is flawed. But you can still work with flawed data. A good example is the Color of Crime report.

    The problem of hispanics being counted as white is actually becoming less of a problem over time. Here in San Diego, we have long had a hispanic category. I found that in the mid-2000’s that about 1/3 of criminals with spanish surnames were being counted as white rather than hispanic.

    Now it is more like 1 in 20 when I checked again about 2 years ago. I also saw this practice had completely ended checking out a few more counties. Basically you go to the county prison website, which often have prisoner lookup features, and type in a hispanic name. Are the resulting prisoners listed as white or hispanic?

  319. @ben tillman
    @Ron Unz


    Needless to say, the claim that LBJ killed JFK and the MSM covered it up for 50 years is a super-duper-conspiracy-theory.
     
    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?

    Replies: @JackOH, @Mr. Anon, @Ron Unz, @Triumph104

    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?

    Exactly! And that’s why I’d always casually dismissed the possibility of any “conspiracy theories” being true until about a decade ago.

    My reasoning was that a serious “conspiracy” might have 100 different components, surely at least a few of which would quickly come to the attention of the media. And once that happened, the media would naturally begin digging up the others, until the entire thing soon unraveled. My mistaken assumption was the behavior of the media.

    That’s why the McCain/POW case was such a powerful datapoint in my mind. Sydney Schanberg, one of the most highly regarded journalists of his generation, puts together a mountain of enormously persuasive evidence to uncover the “story of the century,” with his findings independently backed up by numerous other individuals, including two former Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee. Absolutely no one seems to provide any contradictory evidence refuting his claims, but the entire MSM simply ignores it: “We see nothing! We see nothing!”

    If the MSM could simply ignore the McCain/POW story, they could ignore absolutely anything. And soon afterward, I started wondering for the first time about the whole JFK assassination…

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Ron Unz

    CIA Agent E. Howard Hunt confessed to the JFK assassination. The media ignored it.

    https://twitter.com/TrumpLion1776/status/720922469083717633

  320. @Lot
    @biz

    The only conspiracy theory in US history that seems plausible to me is that JE Hoover kept himself in power for so long with the FBI by having files on so many politicians. Not just staying as head of the agency, but keeping it well budgeted and aligned with his personal, somewhat Nixonian-center-right personal politics.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @JohnnyWalker123, @Almost Missouri

    “Hoover kept himself in power for so long with the FBI by having files on so many politicians”

    Inasmuch as the FBI’s mission is to keep track of the country’s criminals, Hoover might say he was just doing his job.

  321. @Ron Unz
    @ben tillman


    My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?
     
    Exactly! And that's why I'd always casually dismissed the possibility of any "conspiracy theories" being true until about a decade ago.

    My reasoning was that a serious "conspiracy" might have 100 different components, surely at least a few of which would quickly come to the attention of the media. And once that happened, the media would naturally begin digging up the others, until the entire thing soon unraveled. My mistaken assumption was the behavior of the media.

    That's why the McCain/POW case was such a powerful datapoint in my mind. Sydney Schanberg, one of the most highly regarded journalists of his generation, puts together a mountain of enormously persuasive evidence to uncover the "story of the century," with his findings independently backed up by numerous other individuals, including two former Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee. Absolutely no one seems to provide any contradictory evidence refuting his claims, but the entire MSM simply ignores it: "We see nothing! We see nothing!"

    If the MSM could simply ignore the McCain/POW story, they could ignore absolutely anything. And soon afterward, I started wondering for the first time about the whole JFK assassination...

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    CIA Agent E. Howard Hunt confessed to the JFK assassination. The media ignored it.

    https://twitter.com/TrumpLion1776/status/720922469083717633

  322. @Mr. Anon
    @ben tillman

    "My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?"

    The problem with most of them is that there is no evidence for them.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Rob McX

    Google “Operation Northwoods.”

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    "Google “Operation Northwoods.”"

    I am well aware of Operation Northwoods. It was never put into effect. I find it interesting that a (real, as it happens) example of a false-flag intelligence operation that never took place is routinely trotted out as evidence that everything is a false-flag.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  323. @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    I’ve read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in “conspiracy theories” and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren’t going to tell you to your face that you’re crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.
     
    Nope. In the particular case in question, I'd dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he'd looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I'm talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

    Now for obvious reasons, I can't disclose his identity, but here's a different, more recent case, in which everything was public.

    A few months ago I was invited to speak on a panel dealing with government corruption issues held at the annual conference of the American Economics Association. The other panelists were quite respectable people, with Daniel Ellsberg being the most prominent name. And it was a very respectable gathering, with Nobel Laureante Joseph Stiglitz being one of the attendees.

    I decided to focus on the same shocking "conspiracy theories" I'd discussed in my American Pravda article. Probably the most astonishing one was the Sibel Edmonds case, and although some of the members of the audience were skeptical, Ellsberg said he'd known all about for many years and thought it was all probably true. With regard to the McCain/POW story, Ellsberg said he'd never heard of it and found it totally shocking, but felt that some of the arguments I'd made seemed reasonably persuasive. So he took home with him some of the offprints I'd brought along, read them overnight, and told me at the dinner-reception the next day that he was absolutely convinced by the material.

    https://www.unz.com/article/our-american-pravda/

    Now offhand, it seems to me that there are very few people with greater public credibility in assessing possible government conspiracies and media cover-ups than Daniel Ellsberg, and if he believes in the reality of the Sibel Edmonds and McCain/POW "conspiracy theories" I'd say there's a pretty good chance they're true, even if a few anonymous racialist commenters on my webzine remain skeptical.

    And here's the key point. Once you accept the likely reality of a long, long list of gigantic "conspiracy theories" and media cover-ups, you necessarily have to become much more agnostic about others, despite the pooh-poohing of the media.

    For example, if I had to bet, I'd guess that both the Orlando Massacre and the Sandy Hook Massacre were exactly what they seem to be, and the supposed MSM anomalies are just due to incompetence rather than any conspiracy. But I'm not nearly as sure in my opinion as I might have been a few years ago.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @5371, @Hepp, @grmbl

    Nope. In the particular case in question, I’d dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he’d looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I’m talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

    That really doesn’t address the selection issue. It would be interesting if there was evidence that elite/establishment types believe that there are false flag operations in any significant numbers, but this is just one individual, and your reputation for unconventional views may simply attract the small minority of connected people who find such theories plausible.

    I don’t think it’s wise to lump in theories about Edmons, POWs, Charlie Hebdo, and Orlando all together under the label “conspiracy theories.” In fact, I don’t think the first two qualify. If a theory is widely discussed by mainstream publications, and in the case of POWs, investigated by Congress, then it’s just a respectable theory. Sort of like how Watergate isn’t really a “conspiracy theory.” I think the congressional committees found that there were no POWs left, but members of the committee have been publicly vocal in their dissent.

    I won’t comment on CH since I don’t know enough about France. But to believe Orlando is a false flag under the PCR scenario would require the cooperation of the national media, the local media, the local morgues, the hospitals, the FBI, the local police force, the 50 actors who played victims and all their families, the government agency charged with getting them all new identities and living secret lives…you get the point.

    False flags aren’t impossible. Evidence suggests that Putin may have carrier one out in the run up to the Second Chechen War. But in the US at least, aside from 9/11 few terrorist events directly lead to any significant policy change. If anything, they seem highly inconvenient for an elite that has multiculturalism and open borders so close to its heart. And to tell the truth, in a country of 300 million people with widely available firearms and porous borders, it’s more of a mystery why these things don’t happen much more often.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    I don’t think it’s wise to lump in theories about Edmons, POWs, Charlie Hebdo, and Orlando all together under the label “conspiracy theories.” In fact, I don’t think the first two qualify.
     
    Okay, you're obviously free to define things howsoever you like...

    Now according to the sworn testimony of Sibel Edmonds, top U.S. government officials were caught red-handed by the FBI arranging to sell our nuclear weapons secrets to foreign spies and terrorists, but the investigation was quashed by higher-ups in order to protect the (well-connected) guilty. The story later came out (repeatedly) on the front pages of the London Sunday Times and was (naturally) picked up by half the world's major newspapers but has never once mentioned anywhere in the American MSM, presumably due to a media "cover-up." And that's the story that Daniel Ellsberg has repeatedly says he's convinced is probably true and far more explosive than his own "Pentagon Papers" scandal.

    Since you're saying that this is *not* a "conspiracy theory," what exactly would you call it?...

    Replies: @Hepp, @iffen

  324. @Ron Unz
    @Mr. Anon


    It’s also possible that Le Pen is senile and that both his assertion about Charlie Hebdo and his house burning down are due to dementia. Old people often inadvertainly start fires.
     
    Well, that's certainly possible, although he came across as totally lucid in the interview, which was only reported in the Daily Telegraph. He was simply pointing out that the extremely professional nature of the attack seemed more like something associated with "security forces" than random jihadis. And perhaps it was indeed a total coincidence that his large manor house burned to the ground nearly killing him almost immediately afterwards, again an event only reported in the Daily Telegraph. Regardless, the massacre of those cartoonists hardly served the Islamicist cause, given that the French government immediately reacted by launching widespread arrests of anyone critical of either Israel or Jews, and loosening the restrictions on long-term preventive detention without charges.

    Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I've seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it's not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries. Also, the short woman in question was the mother of a newborn infant, and I've never previously heard of such an individual launching a suicidal commando-terrorist raid, again showing the devilish nature of Islam.

    Replies: @Hepp

    Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I’ve seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it’s not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries. Also, the short woman in question was the mother of a newborn infant, and I’ve never previously heard of such an individual launching a suicidal commando-terrorist raid, again showing the devilish nature of Islam.

    Well, there’s a long literature on the unreliability of eye witness reports, especially under duress. I remember hearing about the three white men, and decided to dig a bit into this. I have been able to trace the “three white men” theory to two sources.

    The first was a guy named Juan Hernandez who said he saw three white men driving fast away from the scene. No claim is made that he saw them shooting anyone.

    The second seems more credible. Sally Abdelmageed says she saw three white men actually doing the shooting from outside the location. I note Abdelmageed is a Muslim name, and watching the interview with CBS, she goes out of her way to say that the men were white, which I think is sort of unusual.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/witness-describes-the-san-bernardino-shooting/

    In the aftermath of the Ferguson events, apparently there were all these black witnesses said that they saw Michael Brown doing “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot,” but when the FBI interviewed them and pressed them on it many admitted that they didn’t see the event and said that they wanted to be part of the story. Perhaps Abdelmageed saw the other guy on TV talking about the three white men driving off, and she wanted to get in on the story while also taking a stand against Islamophobia.

    Although the “three white men” story was everywhere in the initial reports, it appears that it all comes down to the testimony of this one woman. What she said has to be balanced against the credibility of the room full of survivors, including the dozens of people who were shot and survived and who knew Farouk, and who have never contradicted the official narrative.

    • Replies: @iffen
    @Hepp

    there’s a long literature on the unreliability of eye witness reports

    Any competent scholar in the field can verify that eye witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence. I would guess 50/50 in accuracy. If there was a way to conduct criminal trials without it, it would be a godsend for justice.

    You make some extremely interesting and thoughtful observations and raise some good questions.

    , @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    The first was a guy named Juan Hernandez who said he saw three white men driving fast away from the scene. No claim is made that he saw them shooting anyone.
     
    Yes, three white men dressed "in military fatigues" fleeing the scene of the massacre. He says he's certain they were the shooters.

    The second seems more credible. Sally Abdelmageed says she saw three white men actually doing the shooting from outside the location.
     
    Thanks for locating those two eyewitness clips on YouTube. As I recall, the initial media reports said that the police were looking for three men as the attackers, at least until those two Pakistanis, one of the them a very short women, were riddled with bullets and the case was officially closed.

    Here's an exercise for you. Can you locate any similar eyewitness media report taken at the time that described the attackers as being a man and a very short woman?

    Please note that a very short woman really doesn't look all that much like two tall men...

    And weren't the gunmen supposedly all masked and in commando-outfits? So how in the world could any of the witnesses supposedly identify one of them as being that Farouk fellow?
  325. @biz
    @Ron Unz

    Ignoring the ad hominems and addressing the substance of your comment, such that it is, your Cosby example actually shows the opposite of what you think it does. Cosby's antics were reported in the media, at first grudgingly in throw-away articles on the back page and later it was front page news. It was not possible for Cosby's illegal / embarrassing behavior to be kept a secret indefinitely, and that was a secret that was about 1/1000th as juicy and about 1/100th as widely disseminated as any of the commonly touted conspiracy theories.

    The actual situation is the opposite of what you have supposed. The implausibility of one conspiracy theory in turn reflects poorly on all the others. For example people claim that the MSM and thousands of people in the government are and have been for 50 years keeping the secret that the moon landing was faked on a soundstage. But why would Brezhnev and Pravda also cover that up if it were true? They were tracking the whole thing. It is completely implausible. Clearly in this case people who accuse the MSM and thousands of people in the government of covering something up are being ridiculous. This in turn makes the whole idea of accusations of the MSM and thousands of people in the government being able to keep an unbelievably profound secret for 50 years in any other case even less credible.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Ben Franklin said, “Two can keep a secret, if one of them is dead”.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Jim Don Bob

    Or if one of them is Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse.

  326. @Mr. Anon
    @Ron Unz

    ""Is your friend in business?""

    "No, in public policy. The sort of person who might have an (outside) chance of becoming a Cabinet Secretary in a future presidential administrative."

    Somebody like Paul Craig Roberts used to be.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Somebody like Paul Craig Roberts used to be.

    Yes, I’d say his current status is roughly comparable or perhaps a bit higher than that enjoyed by Paul Craig Roberts about 25-30 years ago.

  327. @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I’ve seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it’s not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries. Also, the short woman in question was the mother of a newborn infant, and I’ve never previously heard of such an individual launching a suicidal commando-terrorist raid, again showing the devilish nature of Islam.

     

    Well, there's a long literature on the unreliability of eye witness reports, especially under duress. I remember hearing about the three white men, and decided to dig a bit into this. I have been able to trace the "three white men" theory to two sources.

    The first was a guy named Juan Hernandez who said he saw three white men driving fast away from the scene. No claim is made that he saw them shooting anyone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s45OeXNRZng

    The second seems more credible. Sally Abdelmageed says she saw three white men actually doing the shooting from outside the location. I note Abdelmageed is a Muslim name, and watching the interview with CBS, she goes out of her way to say that the men were white, which I think is sort of unusual.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/witness-describes-the-san-bernardino-shooting/

    In the aftermath of the Ferguson events, apparently there were all these black witnesses said that they saw Michael Brown doing "Hands Up, Don't Shoot," but when the FBI interviewed them and pressed them on it many admitted that they didn't see the event and said that they wanted to be part of the story. Perhaps Abdelmageed saw the other guy on TV talking about the three white men driving off, and she wanted to get in on the story while also taking a stand against Islamophobia.

    Although the "three white men" story was everywhere in the initial reports, it appears that it all comes down to the testimony of this one woman. What she said has to be balanced against the credibility of the room full of survivors, including the dozens of people who were shot and survived and who knew Farouk, and who have never contradicted the official narrative.

    Replies: @iffen, @Ron Unz

    there’s a long literature on the unreliability of eye witness reports

    Any competent scholar in the field can verify that eye witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence. I would guess 50/50 in accuracy. If there was a way to conduct criminal trials without it, it would be a godsend for justice.

    You make some extremely interesting and thoughtful observations and raise some good questions.

  328. @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    Another interesting case is the San Bernardino attacks. From what I’ve seen, the actual eyewitnesses and initial police reports all indicated that the attackers were three tall white men, masked and in commando gear. Yet the eventual official story is that the attackers were the two random (deceased) dark-skinned Pakistani immigrants, one of them a short woman. Offhand, it’s not clear to me how one short woman could transform into two tall men and back again, but that just shows the resources of our Islamicist adversaries. Also, the short woman in question was the mother of a newborn infant, and I’ve never previously heard of such an individual launching a suicidal commando-terrorist raid, again showing the devilish nature of Islam.

     

    Well, there's a long literature on the unreliability of eye witness reports, especially under duress. I remember hearing about the three white men, and decided to dig a bit into this. I have been able to trace the "three white men" theory to two sources.

    The first was a guy named Juan Hernandez who said he saw three white men driving fast away from the scene. No claim is made that he saw them shooting anyone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s45OeXNRZng

    The second seems more credible. Sally Abdelmageed says she saw three white men actually doing the shooting from outside the location. I note Abdelmageed is a Muslim name, and watching the interview with CBS, she goes out of her way to say that the men were white, which I think is sort of unusual.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/witness-describes-the-san-bernardino-shooting/

    In the aftermath of the Ferguson events, apparently there were all these black witnesses said that they saw Michael Brown doing "Hands Up, Don't Shoot," but when the FBI interviewed them and pressed them on it many admitted that they didn't see the event and said that they wanted to be part of the story. Perhaps Abdelmageed saw the other guy on TV talking about the three white men driving off, and she wanted to get in on the story while also taking a stand against Islamophobia.

    Although the "three white men" story was everywhere in the initial reports, it appears that it all comes down to the testimony of this one woman. What she said has to be balanced against the credibility of the room full of survivors, including the dozens of people who were shot and survived and who knew Farouk, and who have never contradicted the official narrative.

    Replies: @iffen, @Ron Unz

    The first was a guy named Juan Hernandez who said he saw three white men driving fast away from the scene. No claim is made that he saw them shooting anyone.

    Yes, three white men dressed “in military fatigues” fleeing the scene of the massacre. He says he’s certain they were the shooters.

    The second seems more credible. Sally Abdelmageed says she saw three white men actually doing the shooting from outside the location.

    Thanks for locating those two eyewitness clips on YouTube. As I recall, the initial media reports said that the police were looking for three men as the attackers, at least until those two Pakistanis, one of the them a very short women, were riddled with bullets and the case was officially closed.

    Here’s an exercise for you. Can you locate any similar eyewitness media report taken at the time that described the attackers as being a man and a very short woman?

    Please note that a very short woman really doesn’t look all that much like two tall men…

    And weren’t the gunmen supposedly all masked and in commando-outfits? So how in the world could any of the witnesses supposedly identify one of them as being that Farouk fellow?

  329. @Jim Don Bob
    @biz

    Ben Franklin said, "Two can keep a secret, if one of them is dead".

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Or if one of them is Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse.

  330. Here’s an exercise for you. Can you locate any similar eyewitness media report taken at the time that described the attackers as being a man and a very short woman?

    I cannot. But we don’t have any way of knowing whether we should have heard any such eyewitness reports. We don’t know whether the actual shooters who’ve been identifiable as such in real time. They apparently wore ski masks, but they could’ve put them on right when they walked in and taken them off when they walked out.

    At 10:59 am PST, Farook and Malik, armed with semi-automatic pistols and rifles, opened fire on those in attendance.[21][22][23][24] They wore ski masks and black tactical gear (including load-bearing vests holding magazines and ammunition), but not ballistic or bulletproof vests.[15][25] The entire shooting took less than four minutes

    There’s no official report yet of what happened, so we don’t really know what the people outside the facility would’ve been expected to see.

    I’m not a law enforcement expert, but initial reports are not known for their accuracy. They’re apparently often highly inaccurate, because there’s a lot going on and the emphasis is on getting whatever information you can as quickly as possible.

    But I would think about it this way. According to an LA Times report, their were about 75-80 people at the party, including the 20+ who were injured.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-suspects-sprayed-the-room-with-bullets-20151203-story.html

    I’ve seen and read many of them giving interviews. I know of no case of any of those people contradicting the official story. So we have exactly 1 person who claims she saw the three white men shooting, plus 1 person who says he saw 3 white men driving away from the scene.

    On the other hand, we have 80 people who were there who either endorse the official narrative or at the very least have not said anything inconsistent with it.

    Which is more persuasive?

    I guess it’s possible that the government simply got to them all and coerced them into endorsing the official narrative. But I think that it’s much more likely that the “three white men” witnesses were mistaken or lying.

    Plus, you’d think that the conspirators, doing such a good job of controlling the narrative in the aftermath, would’ve somehow through their control of the media or whatever been able to stop those initial reports of the three white men in the first place. Unless the media wasn’t in on it from the beginning, but the authorities later “got to them” in the same way they got to all the people who were there when the shooting happened.

    I’ll emphasize again that we’re just piecing all this together from media reports. It’s natural that there will be inconsistencies, which wouldn’t be expected to be cleared up until law enforcement is able to publicly issue its report or whatever (if that’s even the normal practice). As a after of fact, according to my googling they haven’t even ruled out the possibility of there being a third shooter yet.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-sb-third-shooter-20160306-story.html

    That being said, I don’t see much evidence for a false flag.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Hepp

    Here we have it in a nutshell

    "There’s no official report yet of what happened, so we don’t really know what the people outside the facility would’ve been expected to see. "

    Why would an "official report" have any bearing on what people saw?

    Oh, right; it was what they were "expected to see"

  331. @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    Nope. In the particular case in question, I’d dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he’d looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I’m talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

     

    That really doesn't address the selection issue. It would be interesting if there was evidence that elite/establishment types believe that there are false flag operations in any significant numbers, but this is just one individual, and your reputation for unconventional views may simply attract the small minority of connected people who find such theories plausible.

    I don't think it's wise to lump in theories about Edmons, POWs, Charlie Hebdo, and Orlando all together under the label "conspiracy theories." In fact, I don't think the first two qualify. If a theory is widely discussed by mainstream publications, and in the case of POWs, investigated by Congress, then it's just a respectable theory. Sort of like how Watergate isn't really a "conspiracy theory." I think the congressional committees found that there were no POWs left, but members of the committee have been publicly vocal in their dissent.

    I won't comment on CH since I don't know enough about France. But to believe Orlando is a false flag under the PCR scenario would require the cooperation of the national media, the local media, the local morgues, the hospitals, the FBI, the local police force, the 50 actors who played victims and all their families, the government agency charged with getting them all new identities and living secret lives...you get the point.

    False flags aren't impossible. Evidence suggests that Putin may have carrier one out in the run up to the Second Chechen War. But in the US at least, aside from 9/11 few terrorist events directly lead to any significant policy change. If anything, they seem highly inconvenient for an elite that has multiculturalism and open borders so close to its heart. And to tell the truth, in a country of 300 million people with widely available firearms and porous borders, it's more of a mystery why these things don't happen much more often.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    I don’t think it’s wise to lump in theories about Edmons, POWs, Charlie Hebdo, and Orlando all together under the label “conspiracy theories.” In fact, I don’t think the first two qualify.

    Okay, you’re obviously free to define things howsoever you like…

    Now according to the sworn testimony of Sibel Edmonds, top U.S. government officials were caught red-handed by the FBI arranging to sell our nuclear weapons secrets to foreign spies and terrorists, but the investigation was quashed by higher-ups in order to protect the (well-connected) guilty. The story later came out (repeatedly) on the front pages of the London Sunday Times and was (naturally) picked up by half the world’s major newspapers but has never once mentioned anywhere in the American MSM, presumably due to a media “cover-up.” And that’s the story that Daniel Ellsberg has repeatedly says he’s convinced is probably true and far more explosive than his own “Pentagon Papers” scandal.

    Since you’re saying that this is *not* a “conspiracy theory,” what exactly would you call it?…

    • Replies: @Hepp
    @Ron Unz

    Haven't really researched it much, but it looks like you're right, it hasn't appeared in the American press, which is pretty odd. It's only the word of own person, but I'll grant it's a "conspiracy theory" that has some evidence to support it (testimony under oath).

    People in intelligence doing bad stuff, betraying their countries, and covering it up has been pretty common throughout history, and not at all implausible. I still maintain that it's different from what most advocates of false flag theories argue for.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @iffen
    @Ron Unz

    but has never once mentioned anywhere in the American MSM

    Edmonds's allegations of impropriety at the FBI later came to the attention of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which held unclassified hearings on the matter on June 17, 2002, and July 9, 2002.

    We asked 100 Americans: Is Wiki part of the MSM? Survey says!

    Replies: @ben tillman

  332. While I generally agree with much of the general themes in steveland and appreciate the variety of honest opinions the one place I’ve grown apart from the group is on conspiracy theories.
    For the first 40 or so years of my life I don’t think I subscribed to any of the popular conspiracy theories and was dismissive of those who did.But I’ll give an example of a media cover up no one can deny .As an adult with five kids many important decisions I have made have been based on keeping my children away from black violence and culture, countless others do the same using the “good school district ” euphemism.
    Now despite this being a major factor for millions of Americans I have never once seen a mainstream media report critical of this particular group.So there’s an example of something that’s an undisputed truth. refer to world star hip hop if you live in Vermont for a look about what I’m talking about.yet the media obfuscate the issue with iron discipline.
    Now of my circle of friends,working class middle aged white guys living in vegas, about a third of them agree with me that the narrative of certain events is demonstrably bullshit…sandy hook,building 7 ,San Bernardino to name a few. Now the most fundamental difference between those who believe the msm and those who don’t is the time spent actually looking at the events….in my humble opinion there is a high correlation between knowledge of the event and calling bullshit on the media narrative of said event.
    I believe to dismiss people who devote time and energy to thinking and looking at these media events is an arrogant way of being .And as a young man I was one these know it all dismissers.
    I’m not saying any of us are sure about what actually happened at any of these events but many fair questions are raised about them and deserve to be answered rather than dismissed.
    “CONSPIRACY THEORIST” IS USED JUST like “racist” is used to shut down debate….an open mind is never a bad thing for intelligent people.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @L7's

    "I’m not saying any of us are sure about what actually happened at any of these events but many fair questions are raised about them and deserve to be answered rather than dismissed."

    Questions are often raised about these events by people who don't even do the minimum amount of work (like googling) necessary to answer them themselves. They raise the question, leave it hanging, and then cite its unansweredness as proof of a conspiracy.

  333. @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    I don’t think it’s wise to lump in theories about Edmons, POWs, Charlie Hebdo, and Orlando all together under the label “conspiracy theories.” In fact, I don’t think the first two qualify.
     
    Okay, you're obviously free to define things howsoever you like...

    Now according to the sworn testimony of Sibel Edmonds, top U.S. government officials were caught red-handed by the FBI arranging to sell our nuclear weapons secrets to foreign spies and terrorists, but the investigation was quashed by higher-ups in order to protect the (well-connected) guilty. The story later came out (repeatedly) on the front pages of the London Sunday Times and was (naturally) picked up by half the world's major newspapers but has never once mentioned anywhere in the American MSM, presumably due to a media "cover-up." And that's the story that Daniel Ellsberg has repeatedly says he's convinced is probably true and far more explosive than his own "Pentagon Papers" scandal.

    Since you're saying that this is *not* a "conspiracy theory," what exactly would you call it?...

    Replies: @Hepp, @iffen

    Haven’t really researched it much, but it looks like you’re right, it hasn’t appeared in the American press, which is pretty odd. It’s only the word of own person, but I’ll grant it’s a “conspiracy theory” that has some evidence to support it (testimony under oath).

    People in intelligence doing bad stuff, betraying their countries, and covering it up has been pretty common throughout history, and not at all implausible. I still maintain that it’s different from what most advocates of false flag theories argue for.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    Haven’t really researched it much, but it looks like you’re right, it hasn’t appeared in the American press, which is pretty odd.
     
    This is exactly why I have a low opinion of anti-conspiracy nitwits...

    The Sibel Edmonds case was a centerpiece of my long American Pravda article, which I've heavily emphasized on this website from the very beginning, and also cited in this very thread, was well as mentioning by name. Yet it now appears that one of the most active debunkers here has never actually bothered reading anything about it, either in my own articles or the numerous links I provided. That he wasted so much time and effort trying to refute my arguments without ever reading what I was saying hardly seems not unusual for these lazy halfwits.

    I'd assume that if the Internet had existed in the 1950s, all sorts of similar debunker-nitwits would have endlessly ridiculed the "conspiracy theory" that a network of Communist spies had gained enormous power and influence in the U.S. government during the 1930s and 1940s, and indeed they were continuing to do during the late 1980s and afterwards, even after the release of the Venona decrypts definitively established the reality.

    Replies: @Hepp

  334. @Mr. Anon
    @ben tillman

    "My father always said that the problem with conspiracy theories is that someone always talks. But what if someone talks, and no one hears him?"

    The problem with most of them is that there is no evidence for them.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Rob McX

    That’s certainly true. But then perhaps the ridiculous conspiracy theories are themselves false flag operations to deflect attention from the more reasonable ones and give conspiracy theories in general a bad name. Within an hour or two of any mass shooting or other atrocity, there are already dozens of “explanations” online showing how it was a setup. These are obviously rubbish written by people who couldn’t even have had time to study the facts. Anyone seeking an alternative theory to the MSM narrative will soon tire of wading through this drivel. But perhaps its very purpose is to bury the needle of plausible conspiracy theory in a haystack of incoherent nonsense.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Rob McX

    "That’s certainly true. But then perhaps the ridiculous conspiracy theories are themselves false flag operations to deflect attention from the more reasonable ones and give conspiracy theories in general a bad name. "

    That is certainly possible, even plausible. I have often entertained the idea that the false-flag narrative is itself...............a false flag. I can hardly think of a narrative that is more beneficial to the establishment. It keeps people cowed, thinking that the powers that be are both ruthless and infallible. Honestly, if they could pull off 9/11, would you really want to f**k with them? Consider Alex Jones, for example. He is a purveyor of false-flag and conspiracy theories extraordinaire. What dow he recommend you do with the knowledge you glean at his website? Start a political party? Stage a protest? Take to the streets? No, he just wants you to hunker down in your apocalypse shelter and buy the survival gear he sells.

  335. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Mr. Anon

    Google "Operation Northwoods."

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Google “Operation Northwoods.””

    I am well aware of Operation Northwoods. It was never put into effect. I find it interesting that a (real, as it happens) example of a false-flag intelligence operation that never took place is routinely trotted out as evidence that everything is a false-flag.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Mr. Anon

    What happened to the president who rejected Operation Northwoods? He ended up dead. As did his brother.

    By the way, let's say the CIA had been successful at pushing Operation Northwoods or any other controversial intelligence operation. Would they be willing to admit that to the public? Probably not. I'd bet there are a lot of intelligence operations that we'll never hear about.

    It's also interesting that it took so many years for Northwoods to finally get attention.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  336. @L7's
    While I generally agree with much of the general themes in steveland and appreciate the variety of honest opinions the one place I've grown apart from the group is on conspiracy theories.
    For the first 40 or so years of my life I don't think I subscribed to any of the popular conspiracy theories and was dismissive of those who did.But I'll give an example of a media cover up no one can deny .As an adult with five kids many important decisions I have made have been based on keeping my children away from black violence and culture, countless others do the same using the "good school district " euphemism.
    Now despite this being a major factor for millions of Americans I have never once seen a mainstream media report critical of this particular group.So there's an example of something that's an undisputed truth. refer to world star hip hop if you live in Vermont for a look about what I'm talking about.yet the media obfuscate the issue with iron discipline.
    Now of my circle of friends,working class middle aged white guys living in vegas, about a third of them agree with me that the narrative of certain events is demonstrably bullshit...sandy hook,building 7 ,San Bernardino to name a few. Now the most fundamental difference between those who believe the msm and those who don't is the time spent actually looking at the events....in my humble opinion there is a high correlation between knowledge of the event and calling bullshit on the media narrative of said event.
    I believe to dismiss people who devote time and energy to thinking and looking at these media events is an arrogant way of being .And as a young man I was one these know it all dismissers.
    I'm not saying any of us are sure about what actually happened at any of these events but many fair questions are raised about them and deserve to be answered rather than dismissed.
    "CONSPIRACY THEORIST" IS USED JUST like "racist" is used to shut down debate....an open mind is never a bad thing for intelligent people.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “I’m not saying any of us are sure about what actually happened at any of these events but many fair questions are raised about them and deserve to be answered rather than dismissed.”

    Questions are often raised about these events by people who don’t even do the minimum amount of work (like googling) necessary to answer them themselves. They raise the question, leave it hanging, and then cite its unansweredness as proof of a conspiracy.

  337. @Rob McX
    @Mr. Anon

    That's certainly true. But then perhaps the ridiculous conspiracy theories are themselves false flag operations to deflect attention from the more reasonable ones and give conspiracy theories in general a bad name. Within an hour or two of any mass shooting or other atrocity, there are already dozens of "explanations" online showing how it was a setup. These are obviously rubbish written by people who couldn't even have had time to study the facts. Anyone seeking an alternative theory to the MSM narrative will soon tire of wading through this drivel. But perhaps its very purpose is to bury the needle of plausible conspiracy theory in a haystack of incoherent nonsense.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “That’s certainly true. But then perhaps the ridiculous conspiracy theories are themselves false flag operations to deflect attention from the more reasonable ones and give conspiracy theories in general a bad name. ”

    That is certainly possible, even plausible. I have often entertained the idea that the false-flag narrative is itself……………a false flag. I can hardly think of a narrative that is more beneficial to the establishment. It keeps people cowed, thinking that the powers that be are both ruthless and infallible. Honestly, if they could pull off 9/11, would you really want to f**k with them? Consider Alex Jones, for example. He is a purveyor of false-flag and conspiracy theories extraordinaire. What dow he recommend you do with the knowledge you glean at his website? Start a political party? Stage a protest? Take to the streets? No, he just wants you to hunker down in your apocalypse shelter and buy the survival gear he sells.

  338. One conspiracy theory I am curious about is Obama’s passport situation. I feel that Trump genuinely was too, but also knew how it could help him politically.

    The story that originally came out was that someone had accessed McCain’s passport file, possibly to cover up something about his birth in Panama. That gave it MSM traction. Only later did we hear that Obama’s passport files were also illegally accessed a few times.

    More recently I learned that the company that did it was headed by John Brennan, who would later go on to lead the CIA under Obama.

    I am pretty sure Brennan is not Muslim, but he can probably recite the Arabic call to prayer with a better accent than Obama can.

    At any rate, if there was something fishy in Obama’s files (probably Indonesian citizenship, or something like that), it is probably pretty well erased from future historians’ eyes at this point. Not to mention Trump’s, should he become president.

  339. @Ron Unz
    @Hepp


    I’ve read you say often that important, high ranking people tell you that they believe in “conspiracy theories” and this leads you to believe that there may be something to them.

    Have you ever considered that this might be a case of selection bias? Most people are polite, and aren’t going to tell you to your face that you’re crazy. So you end up hearing only from those who share a similar outlook.
     
    Nope. In the particular case in question, I'd dropped that friend of mine a note about an entirely different matter, and made casual reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists. I was totally shocked when he expressed skepticism whether the attack was what it seemed to be. A couple of days later, after all the massive NYT+WSJ coverage, I dropped him a follow-up note, saying that with all the facts now uncovered he now had to admit it clearly was an attack by Islamic terrorists. Nope, he said, he'd looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position. Again, I'm talking about probably my best-connected, most elite-establishment friend.

    Now for obvious reasons, I can't disclose his identity, but here's a different, more recent case, in which everything was public.

    A few months ago I was invited to speak on a panel dealing with government corruption issues held at the annual conference of the American Economics Association. The other panelists were quite respectable people, with Daniel Ellsberg being the most prominent name. And it was a very respectable gathering, with Nobel Laureante Joseph Stiglitz being one of the attendees.

    I decided to focus on the same shocking "conspiracy theories" I'd discussed in my American Pravda article. Probably the most astonishing one was the Sibel Edmonds case, and although some of the members of the audience were skeptical, Ellsberg said he'd known all about for many years and thought it was all probably true. With regard to the McCain/POW story, Ellsberg said he'd never heard of it and found it totally shocking, but felt that some of the arguments I'd made seemed reasonably persuasive. So he took home with him some of the offprints I'd brought along, read them overnight, and told me at the dinner-reception the next day that he was absolutely convinced by the material.

    https://www.unz.com/article/our-american-pravda/

    Now offhand, it seems to me that there are very few people with greater public credibility in assessing possible government conspiracies and media cover-ups than Daniel Ellsberg, and if he believes in the reality of the Sibel Edmonds and McCain/POW "conspiracy theories" I'd say there's a pretty good chance they're true, even if a few anonymous racialist commenters on my webzine remain skeptical.

    And here's the key point. Once you accept the likely reality of a long, long list of gigantic "conspiracy theories" and media cover-ups, you necessarily have to become much more agnostic about others, despite the pooh-poohing of the media.

    For example, if I had to bet, I'd guess that both the Orlando Massacre and the Sandy Hook Massacre were exactly what they seem to be, and the supposed MSM anomalies are just due to incompetence rather than any conspiracy. But I'm not nearly as sure in my opinion as I might have been a few years ago.

    Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson, @5371, @Hepp, @grmbl

    Charlie Hebdo attacks by Islamic terrorists

    Nope, he said, he’d looked into it more carefully, checked with some of his knowledgeable friends, and it definitely looked like a government false-flag. Over a lengthy exchange of notes, he gradually won me over to his position.

    Awesome! You should work this into your campaign stump speech, I guarantee it will bring you extra attention.

    • Replies: @grmbl
    @grmbl

    Whoops, completely missed that the primaries are already over. 1.3 percent voted for you. Better luck next time :D

  340. @Almost Missouri
    @Ron Unz


    "Suppose prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant black students from elite universities. Would they be able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story?"
     
    Somewhere I heard that prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant Asian students from elite universities, and they were able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story. Now if only I could remember where I heard that...

    Just wanted to to say thank you, Mr. Unz, for sponsoring this site. Whatever its flaws, its virtues really are a beacon unto the nations.

    Replies: @grmbl

    Somewhere I heard that prominent admissions officers at top universities launched a secret conspiracy to exclude thousands of brilliant Asian students from elite universities, and they were able to prevent the MSM from uncovering and breaking this story.

    Maybe there isn’t anything to this “story”? Unz was never a professor at Harvard. Lubos Motl was a Fellow and later assistant professor at Harvard before he resigned voluntarily, read what he has to say about the topic in this Disqus thread: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/thereferenceframe/the_reference_frame_extracurricular_activities_are_indeed_just_extra/#comment-1587626186

    tl;dr Motl thinks Unz is full of it. Mainstream media ignored both Unz’ claims and Motl’s dismissive treatment of them. Assuming that they were prevented from running the story by “prominent admissions officers at top universities” sounds … well, far-fetched.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @grmbl


    tl;dr Motl thinks Unz is full of it.
     
    And Motl's an idiot.
    , @Almost Missouri
    @grmbl

    Well, I read what Motl said. He starts from an assumption that Jews are 1 SD or about 15 IQ points above the mean. What I've heard previously is 1/2 SD or 5-10 points and dropping. Don't know who's right, but obviously, the starting assumption has a big effect on Motl's argument.

    Secondly, he doesn't address Asian IQ until someone else brings it up, then he dismisses Asians as being 10 points below Jews or lower. Again, this is a different assumption from what I've heard elsewhere. Nevertheless, Even if Motl were correct, Asians should still be more represented than they are, so Motl doesn't really refute Asian under-representation (and Unz) at all, he just makes different assumptions and ignores what still doesn't fit.

  341. @Ron Unz
    @Lot


    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.
     
    Well, rightly or wrongly, the definition of "mainstream" in our society is someone being on TeeVee, or failing that, at least regularly mentioned in the WSJ-NYT or other major publications.

    I've seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky, and over the years she's been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a "9-11 Truther" the appointment was pulled. However, he's still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    Certainly there people, and (I'd suspect) lots of other "Truthers" are *vastly* more mainstream than any racialist blogger. My impression is that there are all sorts of "conspiracy websites" out there with enormously greater traffic than the racialist websites.

    I think anonymous racialist commenters may not realize just how totally marginalized their own views are.

    Replies: @JackOH, @Nico, @Lot, @Jonathan Revusky

    I’ve seen a couple of mentions in the NYT-WSJ that Naomi Wolf supposedly claims that the ISIS beheading videos are obviously fake, making the same arguments as Revusky,

    I don’t know what exact arguments Naomi Wolf makes. Probably the same as me. My argument is: just watch one of them!

    http://libyanwarthetruth.com/isis-beheading-video-libya-hoax

    Well, I also made a separate argument in my first essay, which is simply that a political movement does not typically make political propaganda films designed to portray themselves as comic book villains. They typically portray themselves as sweetness and light and demonize their enemies. I suggested that this basic consideration should raise alarm bells in a person with any reasonable level of BDQ (Bullshit Detection Quotient).

    What is funny (though not exactly “ha ha” funny) is that in the article (the first I wrote on this site) in which I outlined the above, there were various commenters who were willing to argue on an a priori basis that these beheading videos must be authentic, while admitting that they had not watched one. And this, when I linked the above video in the article.

    So these people would openly decline to watch the video and then, argue, ostensibly trying to convince me, somebody who, of course DID watch the video, that the video was real. I thought that was quite extraordinary.

    and over the years she’s been a somewhat prominent feminist public intellectual.

    Yes, but one should note that Naomi Wolf’s status as a “feminist public intellectual” was established prior to her telling the truth about these fake videos.

    That Van Jones fellow was given an important appointment by Obama, but once it came out that he was a “9-11 Truther” the appointment was pulled. However, he’s still on TeeVee quite a bit and in the newspapers.

    My understanding is that Van Jones was driven out of the Obama administration because he had earlier signed a petition calling for a new investigation of 9/11. They made an example of him.

    My sense is that he got back into public visibility by publicly (and maybe privately, though we would not observe that…) grovelling quite a bit. If he had simply stuck to his guns and said: “Screw you all, I signed the petition and I would sign it again because there damn well is need for a new investigation”. In that case, he would have been banished to the outer darkness. He groveled enough and showed he had learned his lesson, not to touch the third rail. Also, one might suspect that there is not an over-supply of highly intelligent, well spoken blacks to put on the TV, so once he assured them he would not go off the reservation, they let him back into that world.

    Maybe I’m wrong on that last analysis of Van Jones, but that’s my read of the situation. The signing of the petition signaled that he was not “ideologically reliable” so he was initially punished, then he recanted and convinced them that he was, or at least, in the future would be ideologically reliable. And now he’s back in public view.

  342. @Lot
    @Ron Unz

    There's also the fact that 20 seconds on Google shows that Mr. Revusky is a computer programmer living in Spain. He has his own website saying this, as well as contributions under his name to open source software projects.

    As to the wisdom of publishing 9-11 truthers, I am dubious. I like that there is an open internet where they have very low barriers to sharing their ideas. I also like the purely technical aspects of unz.com. I like a lot of the content. I like what you did with unz.org as well.

    However, when you publish 9-11 truthers and cross-promote their work next to serious people like Steve, Razib, and Derb, you promoter the former at the expense of demeaning the latter.



    endless anonymous racialist comments might suffer “guilt by association” by sharing a website with this other material
     
    It isn't our comments that suffer guilt by association, but your regular writers, and more so their ideas.

    I don’t necessarily *endorse* everything that I choose to publish in this small webzine. But the mission statement is alternative media perspectives, and surely “conspiracy theories” fall into that category
     
    Where you are coy about your views, what you publish can certainly produce reasonable inferences. For example, on the issue of The Israel Lobby Menace, your writers certainly have non-mainstream views, at least in the United States. But there is another set of unpopular views about Israel that you do not publish, though Steve, usually with some sarcasm, semi-endorses: Israel as model for the USA. Is there really much MSM defense of Israel's settlements? Its Gaza policy? Of the many in Israel to the right of Bibi?

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Jonathan Revusky

    As to the wisdom of publishing 9-11 truthers, I am dubious.

    Your position seems to be that 9/11 “Truthers” are simply self-evidently wrong. That, as far as I can see, is equivalent to claiming that the official story is self-evidently correct.

    I am puzzled as to why anybody would think that. Just to focus this, could you outline what the strongest available evidence for the government story is? I mean, specifically that these attacks on 9/11 were orchestrated from Afghanistan, by a bearded religious fanatic named Osama Bin Laden.

    The obvious implication is that this story is self-evidently true and only a nut would doubt it. Could you outline the strongest available evidence for this?

  343. @Kylie
    @SFG

    You think blacks and you [non-observant] Jews have it bad?

    I'm a white middle-class woman. You know, one of the group Whiskey is always railing against.* I'm expected to have drunk, wallowed in and douched with the Kool-Aid all the other white middle-class women have used. And when they realize I haven't, they turn on me. No solidarity or sororal loyalty for me. And frankly, that's a two-way street. I feel nothing but contempt and hostility toward them.

    I've always loved being female, never wanted to be anything else. But when I read about and listen to the sheer idiocy and lunacy most of that group spews, I don't even think of myself as a woman in the same sense that they are women.

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Replies: @Autochthon, @iSteveFan, @Ace, @Mark2, @Monopthalmus

    *Whiskey is more right than you all seem to realize.

    Okay, Whiskey…

  344. @Hepp
    @Ron Unz

    Haven't really researched it much, but it looks like you're right, it hasn't appeared in the American press, which is pretty odd. It's only the word of own person, but I'll grant it's a "conspiracy theory" that has some evidence to support it (testimony under oath).

    People in intelligence doing bad stuff, betraying their countries, and covering it up has been pretty common throughout history, and not at all implausible. I still maintain that it's different from what most advocates of false flag theories argue for.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    Haven’t really researched it much, but it looks like you’re right, it hasn’t appeared in the American press, which is pretty odd.

    This is exactly why I have a low opinion of anti-conspiracy nitwits…

    The Sibel Edmonds case was a centerpiece of my long American Pravda article, which I’ve heavily emphasized on this website from the very beginning, and also cited in this very thread, was well as mentioning by name. Yet it now appears that one of the most active debunkers here has never actually bothered reading anything about it, either in my own articles or the numerous links I provided. That he wasted so much time and effort trying to refute my arguments without ever reading what I was saying hardly seems not unusual for these lazy halfwits.

    I’d assume that if the Internet had existed in the 1950s, all sorts of similar debunker-nitwits would have endlessly ridiculed the “conspiracy theory” that a network of Communist spies had gained enormous power and influence in the U.S. government during the 1930s and 1940s, and indeed they were continuing to do during the late 1980s and afterwards, even after the release of the Venona decrypts definitively established the reality.

    • Replies: @Hepp
    @Ron Unz


    The Sibel Edmonds case was a centerpiece of my long American Pravda article, which I’ve heavily emphasized on this website from the very beginning, and also cited in this very thread, was well as mentioning by name. Yet it now appears that one of