The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
How IQ Testing Can Boost Number of Gifted Black and Hispanic Students
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From the New York Times:

Why Talented Black and Hispanic Students Can Go Undiscovered
Economic View
By SUSAN DYNARSKI APRIL 8, 2016

Public schools are increasingly filled with black and Hispanic students, but the children identified as “gifted” in those schools are overwhelmingly white and Asian.

The numbers are startling. Black third graders are half as likely as whites to be included in programs for the gifted, and the deficit is nearly as large for Hispanics, according to work by two Vanderbilt researchers, Jason Grissom and Christopher Redding.

New evidence indicates that schools have contributed to these disparities by underestimating the potential of black and Hispanic children. But that can change: When one large school district in Florida altered how it screened children, the number of black and Hispanic children identified as gifted doubled.

That district is Broward County, which includes Fort Lauderdale and has one of the largest and most diverse student populations in the country. More than half of its students are black or Hispanic, and a similar proportion are from low-income families. Yet, as of 10 years ago, just 28 percent of the third graders who were identified as gifted were black or Hispanic.

In 2005, in an effort to reduce that disparity, Broward County introduced a universal screening program, requiring that all second graders take a short nonverbal test, with high scorers referred for I.Q. testing. Under the previous system, the district had relied on teachers and parents to make those referrals.

Several generations ago, Sir Cyril Burt was knighted by a British Labour government for introducing IQ testing into British schools, which roughly doubled the proportion of working class children achieving various honors over the previous more subjective systems. Also, Burt pointed out in 1912 that women and men appear to be surprisingly equal in IQ.

The economists David Card of the University of California, Berkeley, and Laura Giuliano of the University of Miami studied the effects of this policy shift. The results were striking.

The share of Hispanic children identified as gifted tripled, to 6 percent from 2 percent. The share of black children rose to 3 percent from 1 percent. For whites, the gain was more muted, to 8 percent from 6 percent.

We’ll come back to that.

Why did the new screening system find so many more gifted children, especially among blacks and Hispanics? It did not rely on teachers and parents to winnow students. The researchers found that teachers and parents were less likely to refer high-ability blacks and Hispanics, as well as children learning English as a second language, for I.Q. testing. The universal test leveled the playing field.

Multiple factors could be at work here: Teachers may have lower expectations for these children, and their parents may be unfamiliar with the process and the programs. Whatever the reason, the evidence indicates that relying on teachers and parents increases racial and ethnic disparities.

Uh, well, reading Card’s actual paper makes clear there was also another factor at work, although this doesn’t get mentioned in the NYT coverage.

From p. 2 of the Card – Giuliano paper cited in the article:

CAN UNIVERSAL SCREENING INCREASE THE REPRESENTATION OF LOW INCOME AND MINORITY STUDENTS IN GIFTED EDUCATION?
David Card
Laura Giuliano
Working Paper 21519
http://www.nber.org/papers/w21519
September 2015

… In response to these disparities the District introduced a universal screening program in spring 2005. Under this program, all second graders completed a non‐verbal ability test, and those scoring above a threshold of 130 points (for non‐disadvantaged students) or 115 points (for ELL [English Language Learner] and FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants) were eligible for referral to a District psychologist for IQ testing.

Oh, so that’s it! They had a quota, a one standard deviation lower bar, for poor or immigrant students. Assuming a scoring system where 100 = the median and the standard deviation = 15, then “non-disadvantaged students” had to score at almost the 98th percentile while ELL and FRL students had to score only at the 84th percentile. Alternatively, the non-disadvantaged had to be in the top two percent while the disadvantaged only had to be in the top 16 percent.

Surprise, surprise …

 
Hide 103 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. So, IQ testing can boost the numbers of gifted black and Hispanic children through affirmative action.

    Frankly, this spin is a new low even for the New York Times.

    • Agree: Travis
  2. 115 points for…FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants

    Yikes, do those free lunches contain a neurotoxin that attacks the brain?

    That picture of the little black boy as a young Copernicus is precious.

    • Agree: 95Theses
    • Replies: @David
    @International Jew

    ...if Copernicus thought the heavens revolved around an afro.

    Note that the white kids are flatfooted whereas the black kid is striving.

    Replies: @Sean the Neon Caucasian, @JSM

    , @Spotted Toad
    @International Jew

    My local science museum had an amusing mural of Copernicus in the demonstration theatre:

    https://twitter.com/toad_spotted/status/696129845491855361

    , @CommentGuy
    @International Jew

    It's also horribly racist in its depiction of black youth as maturing faster physically than white and Asian peers. One more growth spurt and he'll be able to dunk.

    Replies: @Realist

  3. Does the quota apply to the IQ test itself, or just the test used to refer students to IQ testing?

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Dave Pinsen

    It refers to admission to the gifted program. There is no way you get a universal test with a high cutoff and admit 8% of whites and 3% of blacks.

    A test that admitted the top 8% of whites would be expected to admit the top 0.79% of blacks using a 1 SD IQ gap and 0.61% using a 1.1 SD gap.

    The 8% number should be roughly equal between whites and blacks using the lower 115IQ bar for blacks explicitly. However, some blacks were subjected to the higher "white" standard (middle class blacks), while some whites (poor or immigrant whites) got into the program under the lower "black" standard. So in practice, you don't get the result that most liberal white institutions want. Instead of getting the 125IQ blacks from middle and upper income families, you exclude them in favor of 115IQ whites and blacks from poor families.

    The only reason this program "worked" is that there are few NE Asian immigrants in south florida.

    If you did this in California, and admitted whites under a 130 non-verbal IQ threshold but ESL asian kids under a 115 non-verbal IQ threshold, you get gifted classes with 50 ESL asians per black and not all that many whites either.

  4. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the lower threshold is just for the IQ test referral.

    • Replies: @larry lurker
    @Fun


    Correct me if I’m wrong, but the lower threshold is just for the IQ test referral.
     
    That's what it sounds like, so there are only two possibilities: 1) they're using the same quota for the IQ test that they used for the referral test, or 2) they're lowering the bar for everyone to where the IQ test has a 98% pass rate, a la those "improved" police/firefighter exams. (This is assuming they're even using a proper IQ test.)

    The second possibility- just pass almost everybody- is probably the better solution, because then they can say truthfully that no quotas are used in the final test. There would still be a racial disparity in pass rates (more than if you used a quota), but things would look a hell of a lot better than they did before.

    , @Argosy Jones
    @Fun


    Correct me if I’m wrong, but the lower threshold is just for the IQ test referral.
     
    You're wrong.
    From the above-linked pdf...

     State laws governing the District's policies dictate that nondisadvantaged students must achieve a minimum of 130 points on a standard IQ test to be eligible for gifted programs. English language learners (ELL's) and free‐or‐reduced price lunch (FRL) participants are subject to a lower 116 point threshold, known as "Plan  B" eligibility. 
     
  5. From the very same paragraph you quote:

    Importantly, the IQ thresholds and other requirements for gifted eligibility were unchanged, so any increase in the number of students identified as gifted following the introduction of the program can be attributed to the screening effort, and not to a relaxation of the standards for gifted status.

    You may be jumping the gun here. It is just one school, but it makes sense that some underprivileged kids might be overlooked.

    The critical issue would be whether the gifted program has long term benefits for such students. Likely worth a shot though.

    • Replies: @TangoMan
    @Clifford Brown

    Range restriction issues are in play.

    With lower standards for black and Hispanic kids, the pool of kids sent for testing is expanded. They found high IQ kids who scored above 115. They would also find high IQ white kids who scored below 130 and above 115 but they never looked for those kids. Those kids are discarded, the range is restricted to white kids who scored above 130.

    Replies: @notsaying, @Clifford Brown

    , @Cracker
    @Clifford Brown

    Just more BS like the rest.

  6. @International Jew

    115 points for...FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants
     
    Yikes, do those free lunches contain a neurotoxin that attacks the brain?

    That picture of the little black boy as a young Copernicus is precious.

    Replies: @David, @Spotted Toad, @CommentGuy

    …if Copernicus thought the heavens revolved around an afro.

    Note that the white kids are flatfooted whereas the black kid is striving.

    • Replies: @Sean the Neon Caucasian
    @David

    "Note that the white kids are flatfooted whereas the black kid is striving."

    It's them Air Jordans, lets him reach for the stars.

    , @JSM
    @David

    Or maybe it's showing the black kid is less intelligent. The White boy and Asian girl were smart enough to go
    get some books and stack them in order to easily reach the black board.

  7. Is there some kind of journalistic “Making Excuses For Minorities” award? It seems like these people are always gunning for it.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @tsotha

    I don't know, but there is an award for "Not Reflexively Making Excuses for Minority Deficiencies":

    Unemployment...

  8. Can’t we compromise, and have all blue areas of the country employ 100% “disadvantaged” minorities at all white and blue collar professions ? And then the non-blue areas get to have a meritocracy? The Left gets to prove how tolerant it is while the non-left will suffer from being racist/sexist/xeonophobic/homophobic/transphobic and not get the actual best, which are always disadvantaged minorities?

    Wait, that would mean the left couldn’t meddle in other people’s lives in order to make them miserable. My bad.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
    @whorefinder

    You sir are serious presidential material. We are in desperate need of a peaceful separation.

  9. @Clifford Brown
    From the very same paragraph you quote:

    Importantly, the IQ thresholds and other requirements for gifted eligibility were unchanged, so any increase in the number of students identified as gifted following the introduction of the program can be attributed to the screening effort, and not to a relaxation of the standards for gifted status.
     
    You may be jumping the gun here. It is just one school, but it makes sense that some underprivileged kids might be overlooked.

    The critical issue would be whether the gifted program has long term benefits for such students. Likely worth a shot though.

    Replies: @TangoMan, @Cracker

    Range restriction issues are in play.

    With lower standards for black and Hispanic kids, the pool of kids sent for testing is expanded. They found high IQ kids who scored above 115. They would also find high IQ white kids who scored below 130 and above 115 but they never looked for those kids. Those kids are discarded, the range is restricted to white kids who scored above 130.

    • Replies: @notsaying
    @TangoMan

    "They would also find high IQ white kids who scored below 130 and above 115 but they never looked for those kids. Those kids are discarded, the range is restricted to white kids who scored above 130."

    I noticed this too and had the same negative reaction as you did.

    I see no reason not to send all kids with IQs between 115-130 on for further testing.

    Shouldn't the point be to take reasonable steps to identify all gifted children?

    It's very unfair when all white people are treated the same way because some white people do so well in America. That "whites" -- actually a certain segment of whites at the top -- dominate the top of many measurements of success and achievement in the US skewers many statistics, it gives whites not doing so well a false sense of security and comfort.

    , @Clifford Brown
    @TangoMan

    The revised post makes this clearer. I assumed that the threshold to qualify as gifted would be higher than the threshold needed to even be tested. The IQ threshold for qualifying as gifted needs to be disclosed. Otherwise, the study is of little value.

  10. Credulousness Is Strength!

  11. Immigrant from former USSR [AKA "Florida Resident"] says:

    Thanks God, our two kids are out of School System since 2002. I have no idea if they were classified as “gifted” or not. They graduated, with 4 year shift, from the same public HS in Florida. Being Non-Hispanic White, just as the rest of the family, our daughter has learned Spanish language rather well. And teachers in HS were good and friendly.

  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The picture seems to be an interesting bit of subtle propaganda. The Asian and White kid stand on books, presumably representing the well stocked home libraries and support they have access to as advantaged children. And despite this advantage, they don’t know what outer space really looks like and represent it with cartoonish stars, whereas the Black kid, without the advantage of standing on books, correctly depicts the Copernican model of the solar system.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Yo Trump
    @Anonymous

    Additionally, the kids to the left and right of the striving negro are both left-handed (i.e. right brained) while the negro child is right-handed (left brained, purportedly with stronger math and logic skills).

    , @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    Wow, you picked that up! And here I thought that leftist propaganda was incredibly subtle and didn't beat you over the head with its obviousness.

    , @AndrewR
    @Anonymous

    Good catch. Not super subtle though.

    , @dcite
    @Anonymous

    It's not subtle. It's blatant and obvious. They know they have to force people to think what the picture says, because it is opposite reality. Only in extremely rare instances would this be an actual scenario in an actual classroom. Hence the force-feeding.

    I wonder if the artist was able to do it with a straight face.

  13. Who are the teachers and administrators that conspire to racially discriminate against the 115-130 IQ white kids?

    How can any white parent trust any of them in any capacity?

  14. @David
    @International Jew

    ...if Copernicus thought the heavens revolved around an afro.

    Note that the white kids are flatfooted whereas the black kid is striving.

    Replies: @Sean the Neon Caucasian, @JSM

    “Note that the white kids are flatfooted whereas the black kid is striving.”

    It’s them Air Jordans, lets him reach for the stars.

  15. Let’s not get too carried away. While those in the reduced lunch program may be disproportionately black and Hispanic, you’d think that a sizeable minority of whites would be in that program as well, and thus qualify for the 115 IQ threshold. And as for the English Language Learners, wouldn’t that include the children of FOB Asians? Seems like they would benefit more than anyone. On the other hand, there aren’t many Asians in South Florida.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Hapalong, The kids are assessed has having a 115 or 130 on a non IQ test. Those who score in this range, with the listed parameters, are then sent for an IQ Test. These kids are not 130 IQ kids. And to address your other thought ALL students in the Buffalo School District qualify for F/RL, so no child is stigmatized.

    Replies: @P

  16. @Fun
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the lower threshold is just for the IQ test referral.

    Replies: @larry lurker, @Argosy Jones

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but the lower threshold is just for the IQ test referral.

    That’s what it sounds like, so there are only two possibilities: 1) they’re using the same quota for the IQ test that they used for the referral test, or 2) they’re lowering the bar for everyone to where the IQ test has a 98% pass rate, a la those “improved” police/firefighter exams. (This is assuming they’re even using a proper IQ test.)

    The second possibility- just pass almost everybody- is probably the better solution, because then they can say truthfully that no quotas are used in the final test. There would still be a racial disparity in pass rates (more than if you used a quota), but things would look a hell of a lot better than they did before.

  17. @TangoMan
    @Clifford Brown

    Range restriction issues are in play.

    With lower standards for black and Hispanic kids, the pool of kids sent for testing is expanded. They found high IQ kids who scored above 115. They would also find high IQ white kids who scored below 130 and above 115 but they never looked for those kids. Those kids are discarded, the range is restricted to white kids who scored above 130.

    Replies: @notsaying, @Clifford Brown

    “They would also find high IQ white kids who scored below 130 and above 115 but they never looked for those kids. Those kids are discarded, the range is restricted to white kids who scored above 130.”

    I noticed this too and had the same negative reaction as you did.

    I see no reason not to send all kids with IQs between 115-130 on for further testing.

    Shouldn’t the point be to take reasonable steps to identify all gifted children?

    It’s very unfair when all white people are treated the same way because some white people do so well in America. That “whites” — actually a certain segment of whites at the top — dominate the top of many measurements of success and achievement in the US skewers many statistics, it gives whites not doing so well a false sense of security and comfort.

  18. @International Jew

    115 points for...FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants
     
    Yikes, do those free lunches contain a neurotoxin that attacks the brain?

    That picture of the little black boy as a young Copernicus is precious.

    Replies: @David, @Spotted Toad, @CommentGuy

    My local science museum had an amusing mural of Copernicus in the demonstration theatre:

  19. If you honestly believe that all peoples have identical abilities, then the world must seem an utterly baffling place. No wonder they cook up all sorts of conspiracy theories to explain differing outcomes! You can’t blame them for reaching for Occam’s Butterknife. If you were a racial egalitarian, what would YOU do?

    I can never tell which ones honestly believe that human populations are all the same, and which ones realise that a “nurture” view is a recipe for nearly unlimited social control.

    Chicken and egg, I guess. Steve, what are your thoughts on this psychological conundrum?

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Carl

    9It's like pre-Copernicus, they imagined the planets followed complicated paths, "epicycles", which is what has to follow if you put the earth at the center. "Stereotype threat", "white privilege", permanent disability from one's great-grandparents' exposure to Jim Crow -- these are today's epicycles.

  20. Ed says:

    A black kid with a 115 IQ should be in a gifted program. They would be 2 std deviations above the black mean. They may not quite measure up to their white or Asian gifted peers but they wouldn’t be a behavioral problem. Most importantly they’d avoid or have limited exposure to noxious influences of black culture.

    I’m black in my late 30s. One of the smartest individuals I ever met was a black classmate at junior high. I had just transferred from Catholic school to public school and he was a godsend to me in terms of navigating my new environment which was completely foreign to me.

    He was in gifted in elementary but he grew up in the projects and junior high was around the time he played dumb to fit in with his peers. Unfortunately he fit in too well with them to the point that he barely completed high school. I caught up with him on FB nearly 20 years later. While he wasn’t a complete loser he certainly wasn’t anywhere near where his intellect could have taken him. Can’t help but wonder where he’d be today if he spent his high school years in a better enviroment.

    • Replies: @newrouter
    @Ed

    the 115 isn't iq

    >Under this program, all second graders completed a non‐verbal ability test, and those scoring above a threshold of 130 points (for non‐disadvantaged students) or 115 points (for ELL [English Language Learner] and FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants) were eligible for referral to a District psychologist for IQ testing.<

    , @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    @Ed

    You highlight a gap that I think we all agree deserves our attention and resources, the one between individual potential and achievement.

    Even if it's worthwhile to invest in human potential in all segments of the bell curve, I still wonder how we decide how much of our resources to dedicate to the development of very modest potential on its far left tail? Is there a formula that we use to possibly compare the diminishing returns to investment for special ed versus using the resources to develop human potential among normal or gifted populations?

    Replies: @NOTA, @Jen Jackson

  21. NY just had statewide English Language Arts tests, which are essentially an assessment test. There has been tremendous push back against these tests by the teacher’s unions, because well, they also assess the work of the teachers. Approximately 11% of all students opted out of taking the test. There is also a call to have the recent tests declared invalid because of missing or mislabeled pages. The mislabeled pages were blank pages, at the end of the test booklet, where the students are allowed to organize their thoughts. How were the pages mislabeled you may ask. Well they weren’t labeled Blank Pages. That’s it, blank pages were not labeled Blank Pages, so how would the students know? Other booklets did not have Blank Pages and the proctors were instructed to give the students scrap paper and tell them that these were Blank Pages they could use to organize their thoughts. I guess a child could be identified as Gifted if they knew a Blank Page was a Blank Page. Heaven help our children. This is why my son has enrolled his freshman daughter in a private girls HS.

  22. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It’s impossible for a talented minority to go undiscovered. They’re always on the lookout for this fabled being. A minority with two cents worth of brains is a precious find and they get very excited, promoting them beyond their real capability. Resources wasted chasing the Yeti aren’t available to the regular normal to bright students. White adults mostly pay for this nonsense through their taxes and are being robbed along with the white students.

    • Replies: @The Practical Conservative
    @anonymous

    This is completely untrue. It's extremely easy to miss talented minorities. "They" do not swoop in and snatch kids from their parents, nor can they tell a kid playing dumb to fit in from one who's actually dumb even if they do obvious things like complete 75% of the test with a perfect score for the items they did fill out.

    The problem is that "they" are looking for talented minorities who don't live in SWPL style settings but who act like SWPL kids at very young ages. This is nearly impossible to find, certainly.

    The other problem is that everyone in mainstreamland wants the Gap to be totally eliminated. For example, it wouldn't be good enough to have blacks who could code be 6% of coders instead of 3% or whatever the current number is. No, they'd have to be at least 13% and anything less is rejected for not being able to generate that result.

  23. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Let's not get too carried away. While those in the reduced lunch program may be disproportionately black and Hispanic, you'd think that a sizeable minority of whites would be in that program as well, and thus qualify for the 115 IQ threshold. And as for the English Language Learners, wouldn't that include the children of FOB Asians? Seems like they would benefit more than anyone. On the other hand, there aren't many Asians in South Florida.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Hapalong, The kids are assessed has having a 115 or 130 on a non IQ test. Those who score in this range, with the listed parameters, are then sent for an IQ Test. These kids are not 130 IQ kids. And to address your other thought ALL students in the Buffalo School District qualify for F/RL, so no child is stigmatized.

    • Replies: @P
    @Buffalo Joe

    The screening test used was the Naglieri Nonverbal Ability Test. It's a nonverbal IQ test similar to Raven's Matrices.

  24. @Ed
    A black kid with a 115 IQ should be in a gifted program. They would be 2 std deviations above the black mean. They may not quite measure up to their white or Asian gifted peers but they wouldn't be a behavioral problem. Most importantly they'd avoid or have limited exposure to noxious influences of black culture.

    I'm black in my late 30s. One of the smartest individuals I ever met was a black classmate at junior high. I had just transferred from Catholic school to public school and he was a godsend to me in terms of navigating my new environment which was completely foreign to me.

    He was in gifted in elementary but he grew up in the projects and junior high was around the time he played dumb to fit in with his peers. Unfortunately he fit in too well with them to the point that he barely completed high school. I caught up with him on FB nearly 20 years later. While he wasn't a complete loser he certainly wasn't anywhere near where his intellect could have taken him. Can't help but wonder where he'd be today if he spent his high school years in a better enviroment.

    Replies: @newrouter, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    the 115 isn’t iq

    >Under this program, all second graders completed a non‐verbal ability test, and those scoring above a threshold of 130 points (for non‐disadvantaged students) or 115 points (for ELL [English Language Learner] and FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants) were eligible for referral to a District psychologist for IQ testing.<

  25. P says:

    It would make little sense to use a lower cut-off (115) on the screening test for ELLs and those eligible for free or reduced lunch and then apply a higher cut-off (130) on them on the second, individually administered test. However, the Card & Giuliano paper never explicitly says what the cut-off(s) are on the second test.

    • Replies: @B
    @P

    The Card & Giuliano paper does say what the cut-offs are for the second test:



    State laws governing the District's policies dictate that non‐ disadvantaged students must achieve a minimum of 130 points on a standard IQ test to be eligible for gifted programs. English language learners (ELL's) and free‐or‐reduced price lunch (FRL) participants are subject to a lower 116 point threshold, known as "Plan B" eligibility.

     

    Replies: @Anonymous

  26. @Buffalo Joe
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Hapalong, The kids are assessed has having a 115 or 130 on a non IQ test. Those who score in this range, with the listed parameters, are then sent for an IQ Test. These kids are not 130 IQ kids. And to address your other thought ALL students in the Buffalo School District qualify for F/RL, so no child is stigmatized.

    Replies: @P

    The screening test used was the Naglieri Nonverbal Ability Test. It’s a nonverbal IQ test similar to Raven’s Matrices.

  27. The eligibility requirements do not appear to be language and SES neutral.

    Students scoring at 130 or higher on the IQ test meet “Plan A” guidelines. Students below this cutoff are evaluated on a “Plan B” matrix.

    http://sbbc-gifted.com/downloads/Gifted_Eligibility_Matrix_Plan_B.pdf

    Primary language other than English and low SES each contribute a point to a required 10, and an Underrepresented Gifted Students checklist can contribute an additional 2. These are termed “Environmental Factors” in the matrix.

  28. Law enforcement in Austin finally caught the Dindu. He is 17 years old, which means Black Lies Matter and White Social Justice Warriors will classify him as a child who was an aspiring rapper.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Jefferson

    How much nuffin could a dindu do if a dindu dindu nuffin?

  29. @Anonymous
    The picture seems to be an interesting bit of subtle propaganda. The Asian and White kid stand on books, presumably representing the well stocked home libraries and support they have access to as advantaged children. And despite this advantage, they don't know what outer space really looks like and represent it with cartoonish stars, whereas the Black kid, without the advantage of standing on books, correctly depicts the Copernican model of the solar system.

    Replies: @Yo Trump, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @dcite

    Additionally, the kids to the left and right of the striving negro are both left-handed (i.e. right brained) while the negro child is right-handed (left brained, purportedly with stronger math and logic skills).

  30. In the NYT comment section, nobody has mentioned the different thresholds (130 v. 115).

    Somebody with access to the NYT comments should bring this up toot-sweet.

    • Replies: @FactsAreImportant
    @FactsAreImportant

    The NYT comment section has closed. No NYT comment picked up on how the thresholds and eligibility criteria were manipulated to inflate the number of "gifted" students from "underrepresented" groups.

    Score: NYT 1, Knowledge -1.

    Replies: @res

  31. @Clifford Brown
    From the very same paragraph you quote:

    Importantly, the IQ thresholds and other requirements for gifted eligibility were unchanged, so any increase in the number of students identified as gifted following the introduction of the program can be attributed to the screening effort, and not to a relaxation of the standards for gifted status.
     
    You may be jumping the gun here. It is just one school, but it makes sense that some underprivileged kids might be overlooked.

    The critical issue would be whether the gifted program has long term benefits for such students. Likely worth a shot though.

    Replies: @TangoMan, @Cracker

    Just more BS like the rest.

  32. B says:
    @P
    It would make little sense to use a lower cut-off (115) on the screening test for ELLs and those eligible for free or reduced lunch and then apply a higher cut-off (130) on them on the second, individually administered test. However, the Card & Giuliano paper never explicitly says what the cut-off(s) are on the second test.

    Replies: @B

    The Card & Giuliano paper does say what the cut-offs are for the second test:

    State laws governing the District’s policies dictate that non‐ disadvantaged students must achieve a minimum of 130 points on a standard IQ test to be eligible for gifted programs. English language learners (ELL’s) and free‐or‐reduced price lunch (FRL) participants are subject to a lower 116 point threshold, known as “Plan B” eligibility.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @B

    Yes, I think that this post is misleading.

    Clearly, the I.Q. cut-offs are set by state law: 130 points for non-disadvantaged students, 116 points for ELL or FRL students.

    Since these cut-offs are set by state law, I think we can assume that they were the same before and after the introduction of universal screening.

    The universal screening tested all students with a non-I.Q. ability test. The difference in cut-offs was similar to that of the I.Q. test cut-offs: 130 points for non-disadvantage students, 115 (instead of 116) points for ELL or FRL students.

    So, since this program did increase the number of ELL and FRL (or otherwise disadvantaged) students, it seems it worked. Universal screening did what it was supposed to, and caught disadvantaged students that were previously overlooked.

    Steve's basic point seems to be that what "identified as gifted" means in article means very different things for different sorts of students. In my opinion it is journalistic malpractice to not inform one's readers of this.

    Mrs. Dynarski did not do so, and for this she is to blame, especially as a professor at Michigan. She also uses a number of weasel words: "many researchers worry"; "psychologists say they believe to be culturally neutral"; "distinguishing between gifted students and everybody else could lock."

    Replies: @Lot

  33. @anonymous
    It's impossible for a talented minority to go undiscovered. They're always on the lookout for this fabled being. A minority with two cents worth of brains is a precious find and they get very excited, promoting them beyond their real capability. Resources wasted chasing the Yeti aren't available to the regular normal to bright students. White adults mostly pay for this nonsense through their taxes and are being robbed along with the white students.

    Replies: @The Practical Conservative

    This is completely untrue. It’s extremely easy to miss talented minorities. “They” do not swoop in and snatch kids from their parents, nor can they tell a kid playing dumb to fit in from one who’s actually dumb even if they do obvious things like complete 75% of the test with a perfect score for the items they did fill out.

    The problem is that “they” are looking for talented minorities who don’t live in SWPL style settings but who act like SWPL kids at very young ages. This is nearly impossible to find, certainly.

    The other problem is that everyone in mainstreamland wants the Gap to be totally eliminated. For example, it wouldn’t be good enough to have blacks who could code be 6% of coders instead of 3% or whatever the current number is. No, they’d have to be at least 13% and anything less is rejected for not being able to generate that result.

  34. Plenty of talented blacks people are found unless you don’t consider being good at basketball or NFL talent.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Anonymous

    "Plenty of talented blacks people are found unless you don’t consider being good at basketball or NFL talent."

    Don't forget the aspiring rappers. A high percentage of Dindus they think they are the next Wiz Khalifa.

  35. I love the NYT illustration. Not only does genius L’il Jabari grok planetary motion, but he’s also setting up a visually devastating Yo Momma So Fat joke at the expense of scowling Da’Quan in the back row.

  36. @Anonymous
    Plenty of talented blacks people are found unless you don't consider being good at basketball or NFL talent.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “Plenty of talented blacks people are found unless you don’t consider being good at basketball or NFL talent.”

    Don’t forget the aspiring rappers. A high percentage of Dindus they think they are the next Wiz Khalifa.

  37. Black genius child draws a more elaborate solar system than the mere white and Asian peers who draw simple stars. Sort of like Morgan Freeman playing one genius after another in the movies. It’s all fantasy. The reality would more likely be that he’d be in Special Ed.

  38. It seems that the same people debunk the value of IQ testing believe very strongly in learning disabilities. What is the relationship between IQs and learning disabilities? Is a person with a high IQ score just a person without any learning disabilities?

    • Replies: @snorlax
    @Zach

    High IQ brings with it a higher likelihood of both disorders of "excessive maleness" (autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, sociopathy), and "excessive femaleness" (bipolar, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder).

    Replies: @Jen Jackson

    , @kiismerh
    @Zach

    It depends on your definition of IQ. I prefer to think that IQ is more a measure of problem solving capability than of learning curve steepness. They correlate but that correlation can be small in case of dislexia etc.

  39. @Carl
    If you honestly believe that all peoples have identical abilities, then the world must seem an utterly baffling place. No wonder they cook up all sorts of conspiracy theories to explain differing outcomes! You can't blame them for reaching for Occam's Butterknife. If you were a racial egalitarian, what would YOU do?

    I can never tell which ones honestly believe that human populations are all the same, and which ones realise that a "nurture" view is a recipe for nearly unlimited social control.

    Chicken and egg, I guess. Steve, what are your thoughts on this psychological conundrum?

    Replies: @International Jew

    9It’s like pre-Copernicus, they imagined the planets followed complicated paths, “epicycles”, which is what has to follow if you put the earth at the center. “Stereotype threat”, “white privilege”, permanent disability from one’s great-grandparents’ exposure to Jim Crow — these are today’s epicycles.

  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This is the kind of junk that helps otherwise really smart people live in this delusion. Many people objectively smarter than myself honestly don’t believe in HBD. They read more than me, but if they read this junk and don’t find it particularly interesting, it just reaffirms their world view.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Anonymous

    Dumber whites are more likely to believe in HBD than smarter ones - the former spend a lot more time around typical black and brown folks than the latter do.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @tsotha

  41. @Zach
    It seems that the same people debunk the value of IQ testing believe very strongly in learning disabilities. What is the relationship between IQs and learning disabilities? Is a person with a high IQ score just a person without any learning disabilities?

    Replies: @snorlax, @kiismerh

    High IQ brings with it a higher likelihood of both disorders of “excessive maleness” (autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, sociopathy), and “excessive femaleness” (bipolar, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder).

    • Replies: @Jen Jackson
    @snorlax

    Hi Zac, Sorry but you're wrong about that. The higher the intelligence the more likely the person will be blessed with good physical health, good emotional health, good social skills or the ability to catch up in this area, and ability to rise above adversity, among other advantages. Although it's not often realized, very bright children are often handicapped in educational settings that are unable to provide them the resources that they are able to take advantage of.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Anonymous

  42. @TangoMan
    @Clifford Brown

    Range restriction issues are in play.

    With lower standards for black and Hispanic kids, the pool of kids sent for testing is expanded. They found high IQ kids who scored above 115. They would also find high IQ white kids who scored below 130 and above 115 but they never looked for those kids. Those kids are discarded, the range is restricted to white kids who scored above 130.

    Replies: @notsaying, @Clifford Brown

    The revised post makes this clearer. I assumed that the threshold to qualify as gifted would be higher than the threshold needed to even be tested. The IQ threshold for qualifying as gifted needs to be disclosed. Otherwise, the study is of little value.

  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @B
    @P

    The Card & Giuliano paper does say what the cut-offs are for the second test:



    State laws governing the District's policies dictate that non‐ disadvantaged students must achieve a minimum of 130 points on a standard IQ test to be eligible for gifted programs. English language learners (ELL's) and free‐or‐reduced price lunch (FRL) participants are subject to a lower 116 point threshold, known as "Plan B" eligibility.

     

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Yes, I think that this post is misleading.

    Clearly, the I.Q. cut-offs are set by state law: 130 points for non-disadvantaged students, 116 points for ELL or FRL students.

    Since these cut-offs are set by state law, I think we can assume that they were the same before and after the introduction of universal screening.

    The universal screening tested all students with a non-I.Q. ability test. The difference in cut-offs was similar to that of the I.Q. test cut-offs: 130 points for non-disadvantage students, 115 (instead of 116) points for ELL or FRL students.

    So, since this program did increase the number of ELL and FRL (or otherwise disadvantaged) students, it seems it worked. Universal screening did what it was supposed to, and caught disadvantaged students that were previously overlooked.

    Steve’s basic point seems to be that what “identified as gifted” means in article means very different things for different sorts of students. In my opinion it is journalistic malpractice to not inform one’s readers of this.

    Mrs. Dynarski did not do so, and for this she is to blame, especially as a professor at Michigan. She also uses a number of weasel words: “many researchers worry”; “psychologists say they believe to be culturally neutral”; “distinguishing between gifted students and everybody else could lock.”

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Anonymous

    So before the ESL and poor kids who did not belong in gifted classes with students far smarter them were being de facto excluded by teachers not referring them.

    Now the smartest 2.5% of white kids in Florida, rather than go to classes with each other, are going to be taking classes with with Dominicans who don't know English and poor blacks who had a good day answering non-verbal IQ test puzzles but are less smart than a large number of white kids rejected from the gifted classes.

    That's Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio's Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don't go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Buffalo Joe, @Andrew

  44. @Fun
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the lower threshold is just for the IQ test referral.

    Replies: @larry lurker, @Argosy Jones

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but the lower threshold is just for the IQ test referral.

    You’re wrong.
    From the above-linked pdf…

     State laws governing the District’s policies dictate that nondisadvantaged students must achieve a minimum of 130 points on a standard IQ test to be eligible for gifted programs. English language learners (ELL’s) and free‐or‐reduced price lunch (FRL) participants are subject to a lower 116 point threshold, known as “Plan  B” eligibility. 

  45. @Anonymous
    The picture seems to be an interesting bit of subtle propaganda. The Asian and White kid stand on books, presumably representing the well stocked home libraries and support they have access to as advantaged children. And despite this advantage, they don't know what outer space really looks like and represent it with cartoonish stars, whereas the Black kid, without the advantage of standing on books, correctly depicts the Copernican model of the solar system.

    Replies: @Yo Trump, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @dcite

    Wow, you picked that up! And here I thought that leftist propaganda was incredibly subtle and didn’t beat you over the head with its obviousness.

  46. You’re wrong.

    From the above-linked PDF….

    State laws governing the District’s policies dictate that nondisadvantaged students must achieve a minimum of 130 points on a standard IQ test to be eligible for gifted programs. English language learners (ELL’s and free or reduced price lunch (FRL) participants are subject to a lower 116 point threshold, known as “Plan B” eligibility.

  47. If a nonverbal IQ test is used than it is likely chosen because it is less likely to handicap children from poorer neighborhoods and those whose English is a second language from children who come from more affluent neighborhoods and more advantaged homes. They are as close as we come to culture fair tests. Then, if I understand right the cut off for the gifted program was 130 for the regular kids and 115 for the less advantaged. Then you are implying that the teachers and parents selection process was biased in the past? An article like this could only come from a liberal! How pathetic.

  48. @tsotha
    Is there some kind of journalistic "Making Excuses For Minorities" award? It seems like these people are always gunning for it.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    I don’t know, but there is an award for “Not Reflexively Making Excuses for Minority Deficiencies”:

    Unemployment…

  49. Lot says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Does the quota apply to the IQ test itself, or just the test used to refer students to IQ testing?

    Replies: @Lot

    It refers to admission to the gifted program. There is no way you get a universal test with a high cutoff and admit 8% of whites and 3% of blacks.

    A test that admitted the top 8% of whites would be expected to admit the top 0.79% of blacks using a 1 SD IQ gap and 0.61% using a 1.1 SD gap.

    The 8% number should be roughly equal between whites and blacks using the lower 115IQ bar for blacks explicitly. However, some blacks were subjected to the higher “white” standard (middle class blacks), while some whites (poor or immigrant whites) got into the program under the lower “black” standard. So in practice, you don’t get the result that most liberal white institutions want. Instead of getting the 125IQ blacks from middle and upper income families, you exclude them in favor of 115IQ whites and blacks from poor families.

    The only reason this program “worked” is that there are few NE Asian immigrants in south florida.

    If you did this in California, and admitted whites under a 130 non-verbal IQ threshold but ESL asian kids under a 115 non-verbal IQ threshold, you get gifted classes with 50 ESL asians per black and not all that many whites either.

  50. @Anonymous
    The picture seems to be an interesting bit of subtle propaganda. The Asian and White kid stand on books, presumably representing the well stocked home libraries and support they have access to as advantaged children. And despite this advantage, they don't know what outer space really looks like and represent it with cartoonish stars, whereas the Black kid, without the advantage of standing on books, correctly depicts the Copernican model of the solar system.

    Replies: @Yo Trump, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @dcite

    Good catch. Not super subtle though.

  51. @Jefferson
    Law enforcement in Austin finally caught the Dindu. He is 17 years old, which means Black Lies Matter and White Social Justice Warriors will classify him as a child who was an aspiring rapper.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    How much nuffin could a dindu do if a dindu dindu nuffin?

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
  52. Lot says:
    @Anonymous
    @B

    Yes, I think that this post is misleading.

    Clearly, the I.Q. cut-offs are set by state law: 130 points for non-disadvantaged students, 116 points for ELL or FRL students.

    Since these cut-offs are set by state law, I think we can assume that they were the same before and after the introduction of universal screening.

    The universal screening tested all students with a non-I.Q. ability test. The difference in cut-offs was similar to that of the I.Q. test cut-offs: 130 points for non-disadvantage students, 115 (instead of 116) points for ELL or FRL students.

    So, since this program did increase the number of ELL and FRL (or otherwise disadvantaged) students, it seems it worked. Universal screening did what it was supposed to, and caught disadvantaged students that were previously overlooked.

    Steve's basic point seems to be that what "identified as gifted" means in article means very different things for different sorts of students. In my opinion it is journalistic malpractice to not inform one's readers of this.

    Mrs. Dynarski did not do so, and for this she is to blame, especially as a professor at Michigan. She also uses a number of weasel words: "many researchers worry"; "psychologists say they believe to be culturally neutral"; "distinguishing between gifted students and everybody else could lock."

    Replies: @Lot

    So before the ESL and poor kids who did not belong in gifted classes with students far smarter them were being de facto excluded by teachers not referring them.

    Now the smartest 2.5% of white kids in Florida, rather than go to classes with each other, are going to be taking classes with with Dominicans who don’t know English and poor blacks who had a good day answering non-verbal IQ test puzzles but are less smart than a large number of white kids rejected from the gifted classes.

    That’s Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio’s Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don’t go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Lot

    "That’s Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio’s Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don’t go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs."

    I wonder why Florida does not attract anywhere near as many Asians as California, Texas, New Jersey, and New York.

    Florida has a lot of mcmansion cookie cutter suburban looking neighborhoods and Asians love that shit.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Lot

    Lot, I posted this before on an other article. I met a young teacher at my grandson's birthday party, she is my daughter's neighbor. She teaches grammar school at a first ring Buffalo suburb, Sweet Home School District, I think. She told me that she has children, can't call them students, in her class that speak eight different languages. The District just drops them in her class. I asked her how she teaches children who don't speak English. She said she sits them next to another child who speaks the same language and some English and hopes that the later child can help the former. If there is no same language speaker, than they just sit there. Another daughter's friend teaches in the Syracuse area, and she told me the same thing. So, regrettably, it's not just Florida that seems to care little about the education of their homegrown students.....and it will only get worse.

    , @Andrew
    @Lot

    "That’s Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio’s Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don’t go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs."

    Florida's schools haven't been much to tout since the early 1970's. Not much to work with nowadays, so why move there when you can go to schools elsewhere that have much better reputations?

    Can anyone name some accomplished Florida primary/secondary school grads off the top of their head? You know, prominent scientists, inventors, builders, businessmen, diplomats, etc.? I can't.

    Florida doesn't have much in the way of industry to help promote schools and education either.

  53. @FactsAreImportant
    In the NYT comment section, nobody has mentioned the different thresholds (130 v. 115).

    Somebody with access to the NYT comments should bring this up toot-sweet.

    Replies: @FactsAreImportant

    The NYT comment section has closed. No NYT comment picked up on how the thresholds and eligibility criteria were manipulated to inflate the number of “gifted” students from “underrepresented” groups.

    Score: NYT 1, Knowledge -1.

    • Replies: @res
    @FactsAreImportant

    Do you see Steve's comment there to that effect? I find it amusing that that appears to be the last comment before closure (FWIW that seems like an own goal for the NYT since it guarantees that comment shows up first for the default "Newest" sort).

    Including Steve's comment here in case it "disappears" later:


    Steve Sailer America 11 hours ago
    It's important to understand that there was a quota system that required Spanish-speakers and free lunch students to only score 115 on the test, while everybody else had to score a standard deviation higher of 130. From p.2 of David Card's paper:

    "In response to these disparities the District introduced a universal screening program in spring 2005. Under this program, all second graders completed a non‐verbal ability test, and those scoring above a threshold of 130 points (for non‐disadvantaged students) or 115 points (for ELL [English Language Learner] and FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants) were eligible for referral to a District psychologist for IQ testing."

    http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/universal-screening-NBER21519.pdf
     
  54. @Ed
    A black kid with a 115 IQ should be in a gifted program. They would be 2 std deviations above the black mean. They may not quite measure up to their white or Asian gifted peers but they wouldn't be a behavioral problem. Most importantly they'd avoid or have limited exposure to noxious influences of black culture.

    I'm black in my late 30s. One of the smartest individuals I ever met was a black classmate at junior high. I had just transferred from Catholic school to public school and he was a godsend to me in terms of navigating my new environment which was completely foreign to me.

    He was in gifted in elementary but he grew up in the projects and junior high was around the time he played dumb to fit in with his peers. Unfortunately he fit in too well with them to the point that he barely completed high school. I caught up with him on FB nearly 20 years later. While he wasn't a complete loser he certainly wasn't anywhere near where his intellect could have taken him. Can't help but wonder where he'd be today if he spent his high school years in a better enviroment.

    Replies: @newrouter, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    You highlight a gap that I think we all agree deserves our attention and resources, the one between individual potential and achievement.

    Even if it’s worthwhile to invest in human potential in all segments of the bell curve, I still wonder how we decide how much of our resources to dedicate to the development of very modest potential on its far left tail? Is there a formula that we use to possibly compare the diminishing returns to investment for special ed versus using the resources to develop human potential among normal or gifted populations?

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    Political pressure, lobbying, and lawsuits--none of which incorporate trade offs, scarce resources, or thoughts about long-term consequences.

    , @Jen Jackson
    @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    You bring up a good point. Very bright children are disadvantaged by not being provided resources they can benefit from, whereas children placed in situations beyond their ability can be damaged by constantly struggling, boredom, and feeling intimidated by such experiences. Those of us who are used to being praised and rewarded for high achievement often don't realize how opposite it is for the children who day after day struggle just to keep up with minimal reward. That is damaging for them. There's all the talk about going on to college but not for them! Instead of fake rewards we should provide training programs in unskilled areas where such students can feel proud to be going on to get a certificate or degree in cooking, secretarial skills, electrician, mechanics, etc. and have basic core training for all in check writing, telephone answering etiquette, good social skills on the job with ones peers and with the boss, etc. Such training post high school could be valuable to the student and the work environment as well.

  55. @snorlax
    @Zach

    High IQ brings with it a higher likelihood of both disorders of "excessive maleness" (autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, sociopathy), and "excessive femaleness" (bipolar, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder).

    Replies: @Jen Jackson

    Hi Zac, Sorry but you’re wrong about that. The higher the intelligence the more likely the person will be blessed with good physical health, good emotional health, good social skills or the ability to catch up in this area, and ability to rise above adversity, among other advantages. Although it’s not often realized, very bright children are often handicapped in educational settings that are unable to provide them the resources that they are able to take advantage of.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Jen Jackson

    Uh, no.

    http://www.medicaldaily.com/why-smarter-people-are-more-likely-be-mentally-ill-270039

    Replies: @Salger

    , @Anonymous
    @Jen Jackson

    "Hi Zac, Sorry but you’re wrong about that. The higher the intelligence the more likely the person will be blessed with good physical health, good emotional health, good social skills or the ability to catch up in this area, and ability to rise above adversity, among other advantages."

    You know, I keep reading this, but a lot of the smartest kids at my high school were real nerds - fairly unattractive, unathletic, and socially awkward. I liked being in class with them because intellectually the classes were stimulating, but socially I missed not having some of the cooler kids in my classes. In fact, I purposefully took a certain elective for several semesters of high school so that I could be in a class with some fun, "normal" kids. Also, in the highly competitive university that I attended, there were lots of socially awkward, fairly nerdy students.

    Replies: @neon2

  56. Anyone notice that the child on the highest stack of the books (ie most privileged) is an Asian girl? Has the NY Times ever before even implied anyone is more privileged than a white male?

    This may portend a future where SWPL parents complain that over-achieving Asian kids are in some ways more privileged than their own children.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jimi

    How do you know it's an Asian girl?

    , @Zachary Latif
    @Jimi

    I was about to make a comment and I noticed that pic with the Asian girl on top!

    A snarky reference to Tiger Mums perhaps?

    Finally I do think that's fair to give a slight advantage to children disadvantaged by nurture, the question of course remains how much of an impact does nurture have on IQ?

    Replies: @NOTA

    , @Anonymous
    @Jimi

    Two of my kids are in public magnet schools. Their classmates do not remotely look like the population of the county--East Asians and South Asians are heavily over represented, and almost the only blacks in their programs have African or Carribean immigrant parents.

  57. @Jimi
    Anyone notice that the child on the highest stack of the books (ie most privileged) is an Asian girl? Has the NY Times ever before even implied anyone is more privileged than a white male?

    This may portend a future where SWPL parents complain that over-achieving Asian kids are in some ways more privileged than their own children.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Zachary Latif, @Anonymous

    How do you know it’s an Asian girl?

  58. @International Jew

    115 points for...FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants
     
    Yikes, do those free lunches contain a neurotoxin that attacks the brain?

    That picture of the little black boy as a young Copernicus is precious.

    Replies: @David, @Spotted Toad, @CommentGuy

    It’s also horribly racist in its depiction of black youth as maturing faster physically than white and Asian peers. One more growth spurt and he’ll be able to dunk.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @CommentGuy

    "One more growth spurt and he’ll be able to dunk."

    An attribute worthy of all humans.

  59. @Jimi
    Anyone notice that the child on the highest stack of the books (ie most privileged) is an Asian girl? Has the NY Times ever before even implied anyone is more privileged than a white male?

    This may portend a future where SWPL parents complain that over-achieving Asian kids are in some ways more privileged than their own children.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Zachary Latif, @Anonymous

    I was about to make a comment and I noticed that pic with the Asian girl on top!

    A snarky reference to Tiger Mums perhaps?

    Finally I do think that’s fair to give a slight advantage to children disadvantaged by nurture, the question of course remains how much of an impact does nurture have on IQ?

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Zachary Latif

    Sure. In fact, it's a worthwhile goal to make sure we find the smartest members of low-performing groups and get them an education that matches their gifts. And we ought to have real discussions about how that should be done, at what cost. That would work a lot better if the news stories (and even their headlines) were trying to make it clear exactly what is being done or proposed.

    My guess is that we leave a lot of available improvements of the world on the table, because of PC-related limits on what people are willing to say, and related reluctance to get involved in discussions. In fact, we probably leave a lot of Pareto improvements (where nobody is made worse off and at least one person is made better off) on the table.

    That's the biggest reason to push back on various kinds of speech restrictions and PC-ism of all flavors--they ultimately make us all worse off.

  60. I’m not clear on this . Are they saying we don’t have any instruments at this time sensitive enough to detect signs of Negro intelligence ? Or are we supposed to to treat or regard erroneously as identical; mix or associate by mistake: Negro cunning with intelligence ?

  61. In other words the entire ‘study’ is just a naked, brazen attempt at deceit and deception masquerading as ‘science’.

    • Agree: International Jew
  62. @CommentGuy
    @International Jew

    It's also horribly racist in its depiction of black youth as maturing faster physically than white and Asian peers. One more growth spurt and he'll be able to dunk.

    Replies: @Realist

    “One more growth spurt and he’ll be able to dunk.”

    An attribute worthy of all humans.

  63. @Lot
    @Anonymous

    So before the ESL and poor kids who did not belong in gifted classes with students far smarter them were being de facto excluded by teachers not referring them.

    Now the smartest 2.5% of white kids in Florida, rather than go to classes with each other, are going to be taking classes with with Dominicans who don't know English and poor blacks who had a good day answering non-verbal IQ test puzzles but are less smart than a large number of white kids rejected from the gifted classes.

    That's Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio's Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don't go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Buffalo Joe, @Andrew

    “That’s Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio’s Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don’t go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs.”

    I wonder why Florida does not attract anywhere near as many Asians as California, Texas, New Jersey, and New York.

    Florida has a lot of mcmansion cookie cutter suburban looking neighborhoods and Asians love that shit.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jefferson

    I suspect that Asians suspect Latins wouldn't treat them as well as Anglos do.

    Replies: @Jefferson

  64. @Jefferson
    @Lot

    "That’s Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio’s Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don’t go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs."

    I wonder why Florida does not attract anywhere near as many Asians as California, Texas, New Jersey, and New York.

    Florida has a lot of mcmansion cookie cutter suburban looking neighborhoods and Asians love that shit.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I suspect that Asians suspect Latins wouldn’t treat them as well as Anglos do.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Steve Sailer

    "I suspect that Asians suspect Latins wouldn’t treat them as well as Anglos do."

    Why would Asian SJWs believe that Whites treat Asians better than Hispanics would?

    Asian social justice warriors believe Whites are the most racist and anti-Asian group in the world.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Brutusale

  65. @Jen Jackson
    @snorlax

    Hi Zac, Sorry but you're wrong about that. The higher the intelligence the more likely the person will be blessed with good physical health, good emotional health, good social skills or the ability to catch up in this area, and ability to rise above adversity, among other advantages. Although it's not often realized, very bright children are often handicapped in educational settings that are unable to provide them the resources that they are able to take advantage of.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Anonymous

    • Replies: @Salger
    @Brutusale

    And yet higher IQ humans (I'm talking from the 110s onward) are way behind lower IQ humans (I'm talking from the 90s downward) when it comes to violent and/or sex crime. Hence, so many Black and Hispanic violent criminals and/or sex criminals in America when put up with Whites and East Asians.

    And let's not forget disparities in earnings. A signifigant amount of millionaires and billionaires (especially in technology) have IQs from the 120s onward. The movers and shakers in STEM fields (which happen to be both one of the higher earning and more respected fields) are also of the higher IQ persuasion. Being a high fuctioning autistic in today’s economy isn't really that big of a curse when you look at wage gaps between STEM jobs (favor analytical ability, introversion, and concentration) and jobs in the service sector (tend to focus on ''social skills'' but pay much less). Other than exceptions like law (which can be a mixture of both) a significant amount of those who are getting seriously rich or famous these days who aren't entertainers or someone like Tony Robbins are more in the vein of the SJW's loathed STEMLords.

  66. @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    @Ed

    You highlight a gap that I think we all agree deserves our attention and resources, the one between individual potential and achievement.

    Even if it's worthwhile to invest in human potential in all segments of the bell curve, I still wonder how we decide how much of our resources to dedicate to the development of very modest potential on its far left tail? Is there a formula that we use to possibly compare the diminishing returns to investment for special ed versus using the resources to develop human potential among normal or gifted populations?

    Replies: @NOTA, @Jen Jackson

    Political pressure, lobbying, and lawsuits–none of which incorporate trade offs, scarce resources, or thoughts about long-term consequences.

  67. @Zachary Latif
    @Jimi

    I was about to make a comment and I noticed that pic with the Asian girl on top!

    A snarky reference to Tiger Mums perhaps?

    Finally I do think that's fair to give a slight advantage to children disadvantaged by nurture, the question of course remains how much of an impact does nurture have on IQ?

    Replies: @NOTA

    Sure. In fact, it’s a worthwhile goal to make sure we find the smartest members of low-performing groups and get them an education that matches their gifts. And we ought to have real discussions about how that should be done, at what cost. That would work a lot better if the news stories (and even their headlines) were trying to make it clear exactly what is being done or proposed.

    My guess is that we leave a lot of available improvements of the world on the table, because of PC-related limits on what people are willing to say, and related reluctance to get involved in discussions. In fact, we probably leave a lot of Pareto improvements (where nobody is made worse off and at least one person is made better off) on the table.

    That’s the biggest reason to push back on various kinds of speech restrictions and PC-ism of all flavors–they ultimately make us all worse off.

    • Agree: res
  68. @Jimi
    Anyone notice that the child on the highest stack of the books (ie most privileged) is an Asian girl? Has the NY Times ever before even implied anyone is more privileged than a white male?

    This may portend a future where SWPL parents complain that over-achieving Asian kids are in some ways more privileged than their own children.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Zachary Latif, @Anonymous

    Two of my kids are in public magnet schools. Their classmates do not remotely look like the population of the county–East Asians and South Asians are heavily over represented, and almost the only blacks in their programs have African or Carribean immigrant parents.

  69. JsP says:

    It is odd how much liberals in this country hate class-fair and successful IQ testing and tracking.

    My sister was a first year (STEM) graduate student in France when one of her professors took her to a meeting with a Nobel laureate. She felt like she wasn’t quite qualified but the professor just waved his hands and said not to worry about it.

    When the Nobel laureate arrived he introduced my sister just by saying, “This is Laura. She’s a Normalien.”

    “Oh, OK. So let’s talk about this research…”

    That’s it. The end of the story. He didn’t need her CV or any other justification. She was a Normalien so it made sense she was there. It didn’t matter that she didn’t even speak French as a first language, much less what class she was from.

    Normaliens, of course, have covered themselves in glory* thanks to pure testing and tracking. It sure saves a lot of time and bullshit compared to our system of kids trying to crack the code of what they need to do besides be smart to get accepted at a competitive school.

    *”The principal goal of ENS is the training of elite professors, researchers and public administrators. Its alumni have provided France with scores of philosophers, writers, scientists, statesmen, officials and diplomats, journalists, lawyers, directors, managers and even officers in the army and churchmen. Among them are 13 Nobel Prize laureates including 8 in Physics, 10 Fields Medalists, more than half the recipients of the CNRS’s Gold Medal (France’s highest scientific prize), several hundred members of the Institut de France,[10] several Prime Ministers, and many ministers.[11] The school has achieved particular recognition in the fields of mathematics and physics as France’s foremost scientific training ground”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @JsP

    "Normaliens, of course, have covered themselves in glory* thanks to pure testing and tracking. It sure saves a lot of time and bullshit compared to our system of kids trying to crack the code of what they need to do besides be smart to get accepted at a competitive school."

    Agree. This is a reason I have concerns regarding Asian meritocratic success, based on high grades and standardized tests scores. From what I understand, many Asians get high grades and test scores through insane numbers of hours of studying and sometimes by cheating or gaming the system.

    Also, letting individuals with subpar credentials into elite institutions can diminish the experience of attending such a place. It can be uncomfortable and frustrating to be in a class where a student makes an unintelligent comment, but everyone else has to act as though it is interesting and has merit, because the comment was made by an individual admitted through affirmative action.

  70. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Perhaps the real victim in this case:

    http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/local/herman-with-senseless-death-of-haruka-weiser-two-f/nq236/

    (the black murderer) should have been enrolled in a class for the gifted, because BLM.

  71. Steve, Sonya Sotomayor agrees with you that there are already enough Jews on the Supreme Court.

    (Ugh, that picture, she’s not aging well.)

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2016/04/09/justice-sotomayor-advocating-for-more-diversity-on-supreme-court/

  72. @Lot
    @Anonymous

    So before the ESL and poor kids who did not belong in gifted classes with students far smarter them were being de facto excluded by teachers not referring them.

    Now the smartest 2.5% of white kids in Florida, rather than go to classes with each other, are going to be taking classes with with Dominicans who don't know English and poor blacks who had a good day answering non-verbal IQ test puzzles but are less smart than a large number of white kids rejected from the gifted classes.

    That's Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio's Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don't go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Buffalo Joe, @Andrew

    Lot, I posted this before on an other article. I met a young teacher at my grandson’s birthday party, she is my daughter’s neighbor. She teaches grammar school at a first ring Buffalo suburb, Sweet Home School District, I think. She told me that she has children, can’t call them students, in her class that speak eight different languages. The District just drops them in her class. I asked her how she teaches children who don’t speak English. She said she sits them next to another child who speaks the same language and some English and hopes that the later child can help the former. If there is no same language speaker, than they just sit there. Another daughter’s friend teaches in the Syracuse area, and she told me the same thing. So, regrettably, it’s not just Florida that seems to care little about the education of their homegrown students…..and it will only get worse.

  73. This seems not too different from what you have suggested as a reasonable way to hire police officers.

  74. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Looking at the Broward County gifted worksheet above, it appears that a poor ESL kid can get up to 8 out of the 10 points needed to qualify through non-objective testing means and a merely poor kid can get 7. So with an administrator-appraiser in his/her camp and a tested 115-118 IQ , and a decent (but not necessarily great) score on the state math/language test, the gifted program can get the gift of more diversity.

  75. res says:
    @FactsAreImportant
    @FactsAreImportant

    The NYT comment section has closed. No NYT comment picked up on how the thresholds and eligibility criteria were manipulated to inflate the number of "gifted" students from "underrepresented" groups.

    Score: NYT 1, Knowledge -1.

    Replies: @res

    Do you see Steve’s comment there to that effect? I find it amusing that that appears to be the last comment before closure (FWIW that seems like an own goal for the NYT since it guarantees that comment shows up first for the default “Newest” sort).

    Including Steve’s comment here in case it “disappears” later:

    Steve Sailer America 11 hours ago
    It’s important to understand that there was a quota system that required Spanish-speakers and free lunch students to only score 115 on the test, while everybody else had to score a standard deviation higher of 130. From p.2 of David Card’s paper:

    “In response to these disparities the District introduced a universal screening program in spring 2005. Under this program, all second graders completed a non‐verbal ability test, and those scoring above a threshold of 130 points (for non‐disadvantaged students) or 115 points (for ELL [English Language Learner] and FRL [Free / Reduced Lunch] participants) were eligible for referral to a District psychologist for IQ testing.”

    http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/universal-screening-NBER21519.pdf

  76. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JsP
    It is odd how much liberals in this country hate class-fair and successful IQ testing and tracking.

    My sister was a first year (STEM) graduate student in France when one of her professors took her to a meeting with a Nobel laureate. She felt like she wasn't quite qualified but the professor just waved his hands and said not to worry about it.

    When the Nobel laureate arrived he introduced my sister just by saying, "This is Laura. She's a Normalien."

    "Oh, OK. So let's talk about this research..."

    That's it. The end of the story. He didn't need her CV or any other justification. She was a Normalien so it made sense she was there. It didn't matter that she didn't even speak French as a first language, much less what class she was from.

    Normaliens, of course, have covered themselves in glory* thanks to pure testing and tracking. It sure saves a lot of time and bullshit compared to our system of kids trying to crack the code of what they need to do besides be smart to get accepted at a competitive school.

    *"The principal goal of ENS is the training of elite professors, researchers and public administrators. Its alumni have provided France with scores of philosophers, writers, scientists, statesmen, officials and diplomats, journalists, lawyers, directors, managers and even officers in the army and churchmen. Among them are 13 Nobel Prize laureates including 8 in Physics, 10 Fields Medalists, more than half the recipients of the CNRS's Gold Medal (France's highest scientific prize), several hundred members of the Institut de France,[10] several Prime Ministers, and many ministers.[11] The school has achieved particular recognition in the fields of mathematics and physics as France's foremost scientific training ground"

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “Normaliens, of course, have covered themselves in glory* thanks to pure testing and tracking. It sure saves a lot of time and bullshit compared to our system of kids trying to crack the code of what they need to do besides be smart to get accepted at a competitive school.”

    Agree. This is a reason I have concerns regarding Asian meritocratic success, based on high grades and standardized tests scores. From what I understand, many Asians get high grades and test scores through insane numbers of hours of studying and sometimes by cheating or gaming the system.

    Also, letting individuals with subpar credentials into elite institutions can diminish the experience of attending such a place. It can be uncomfortable and frustrating to be in a class where a student makes an unintelligent comment, but everyone else has to act as though it is interesting and has merit, because the comment was made by an individual admitted through affirmative action.

  77. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jen Jackson
    @snorlax

    Hi Zac, Sorry but you're wrong about that. The higher the intelligence the more likely the person will be blessed with good physical health, good emotional health, good social skills or the ability to catch up in this area, and ability to rise above adversity, among other advantages. Although it's not often realized, very bright children are often handicapped in educational settings that are unable to provide them the resources that they are able to take advantage of.

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Anonymous

    “Hi Zac, Sorry but you’re wrong about that. The higher the intelligence the more likely the person will be blessed with good physical health, good emotional health, good social skills or the ability to catch up in this area, and ability to rise above adversity, among other advantages.”

    You know, I keep reading this, but a lot of the smartest kids at my high school were real nerds – fairly unattractive, unathletic, and socially awkward. I liked being in class with them because intellectually the classes were stimulating, but socially I missed not having some of the cooler kids in my classes. In fact, I purposefully took a certain elective for several semesters of high school so that I could be in a class with some fun, “normal” kids. Also, in the highly competitive university that I attended, there were lots of socially awkward, fairly nerdy students.

    • Replies: @neon2
    @Anonymous

    Everybody in high school is either unattractive or socially awkward or unathletic.
    It's called adolescence.

  78. Why did the NYT even bother to put text in the article? The illustration says everything they wanted to say. “Blacks are covert geniuses waiting to be discovered.” As the liberal narrative becomes more and more simplistic, text becomes less and less necessary. The liberal world view can be just as easily expressed with pictures.

  79. By a strange coincidence, NAMs tend to be about 1 standard deviation less intelligent than WAMs…voila!

  80. @Steve Sailer
    @Jefferson

    I suspect that Asians suspect Latins wouldn't treat them as well as Anglos do.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “I suspect that Asians suspect Latins wouldn’t treat them as well as Anglos do.”

    Why would Asian SJWs believe that Whites treat Asians better than Hispanics would?

    Asian social justice warriors believe Whites are the most racist and anti-Asian group in the world.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jefferson

    Ahem...

    Not every "Asian" is an SJW. (Let's just call the ones were talking about "East Asian," okay?)

    The one's I know who moved into a McMansion in my very white neighborhood are not. I suspect they are race realists like a lot of non-Americans I know. In fact I would bet they are East Asian supremacists, since many are.

    East Asians, like everybody else, know that one is safest around white people. Everyone knows that. Everyone. Of every race. Even SJWs of every race.

    Isn't it obvious by now that everyone in the world wants to live where the white people are?

    (And no, "Hispanic" is not white, so there is no need to clarify terms here.)

    , @Brutusale
    @Jefferson

    You've never met a true racist until you've met an Asian, our boy Twinkie notwithstanding.

  81. The Chicago Way
    In order to avoid the use of prohibited racial quotas, Chicago Public Schools use a weighted multi-factor system that ranks each census tract within the city. Factors include average income, rate of home ownership, whether or not English was spoke, level of education etc in each census tract. Thus there is no need to muck about trying to deal with the topic of IQ in cognitive testing or even the question of giftedness in this system.

    Each census tract is then assigned 1 of 4 tiers. Students applying to schools are classified by the census tract they live in, and are grouped by respective tiers.

    The first 30% of students that score the highest in absolute terms on the test and are admitted first to their school of choice. Then each of the four remaining tiers are filled with the highest scoring applicants to the school from each of the four tiers. Students with scores too low for their first choice may be admitted to their second or third choices should their score be above the lowest cutoff in these respective schools.

    It is too complex to post all the details but if you care to learn about it, here is a start:

    http://cpstiers.opencityapps.org/tier-calculation.html

    No surprise that with all the tweaking of the socio-economic factors and the respective weights, the overall student body selected for gifted schools (selective enrollment is the term in Chicago) proportionately reflects the racial makeup of Chicago, and the racial breakdown is nearly the same as the prior court ordered selection system that used racial quotas in he first few years. I can’t say for sure what the breakdown is now. This was clearly the intent of its designers.

    http://cpsmagnet.org/ourpages/auto/2010/11/18/38613619/BRC%20Final%20Report%209%2022%2010.pdf

    These are the score cut offs for admission to selective enrollment highschools by various tiers. Be aware that 7th grade grades are also part of highschool enrollment point totals while grades obviously are not used for student entering elementary schools.

    http://cpsoae.org/SEHS%20Cutoff%20Scores%202015-2016.pdf

    You can see not all schools viewed as equal, as the cut offs vary widely by school as well as tier. Some schools have better academic reputations, or are located in less or more desirable neighborhoods in terms of safety or access to public transportation.

  82. @Anonymous
    The picture seems to be an interesting bit of subtle propaganda. The Asian and White kid stand on books, presumably representing the well stocked home libraries and support they have access to as advantaged children. And despite this advantage, they don't know what outer space really looks like and represent it with cartoonish stars, whereas the Black kid, without the advantage of standing on books, correctly depicts the Copernican model of the solar system.

    Replies: @Yo Trump, @Jack D, @AndrewR, @dcite

    It’s not subtle. It’s blatant and obvious. They know they have to force people to think what the picture says, because it is opposite reality. Only in extremely rare instances would this be an actual scenario in an actual classroom. Hence the force-feeding.

    I wonder if the artist was able to do it with a straight face.

  83. On the plus side of black folks having predominantly lower IQ’s… if Black Lives Matter gets radicalized, we don’t have to worry about suicide bombers much. They will tend to take care of themselves:

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/04/06/0406-bomb-suspects-linked-to-terror-group.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link

  84. Every study shows the same. It’s always cherry-picking, self-selection, fraud, or a mistake when you get a result like the NYT headlines.

  85. @Brutusale
    @Jen Jackson

    Uh, no.

    http://www.medicaldaily.com/why-smarter-people-are-more-likely-be-mentally-ill-270039

    Replies: @Salger

    And yet higher IQ humans (I’m talking from the 110s onward) are way behind lower IQ humans (I’m talking from the 90s downward) when it comes to violent and/or sex crime. Hence, so many Black and Hispanic violent criminals and/or sex criminals in America when put up with Whites and East Asians.

    And let’s not forget disparities in earnings. A signifigant amount of millionaires and billionaires (especially in technology) have IQs from the 120s onward. The movers and shakers in STEM fields (which happen to be both one of the higher earning and more respected fields) are also of the higher IQ persuasion. Being a high fuctioning autistic in today’s economy isn’t really that big of a curse when you look at wage gaps between STEM jobs (favor analytical ability, introversion, and concentration) and jobs in the service sector (tend to focus on ”social skills” but pay much less). Other than exceptions like law (which can be a mixture of both) a significant amount of those who are getting seriously rich or famous these days who aren’t entertainers or someone like Tony Robbins are more in the vein of the SJW’s loathed STEMLords.

  86. @Anonymous
    This is the kind of junk that helps otherwise really smart people live in this delusion. Many people objectively smarter than myself honestly don't believe in HBD. They read more than me, but if they read this junk and don't find it particularly interesting, it just reaffirms their world view.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Dumber whites are more likely to believe in HBD than smarter ones – the former spend a lot more time around typical black and brown folks than the latter do.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Stan Adams

    "Dumber whites are more likely to believe in HBD than smarter ones – the former spend a lot more time around typical black and brown folks than the latter do."

    I have never lived in a neighborhood with a heavy Brown and Black presence. But I still know how their underclass behaves from using public transportation.

    , @tsotha
    @Stan Adams

    White collar types don't spend a lot of time with chronically unemployed or blue collar types in general. If you always work in an office with other people who went to good schools, particularly people with technical degrees, you get a badly skewed view of average intelligence.

  87. @Jefferson
    @Steve Sailer

    "I suspect that Asians suspect Latins wouldn’t treat them as well as Anglos do."

    Why would Asian SJWs believe that Whites treat Asians better than Hispanics would?

    Asian social justice warriors believe Whites are the most racist and anti-Asian group in the world.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Brutusale

    Ahem…

    Not every “Asian” is an SJW. (Let’s just call the ones were talking about “East Asian,” okay?)

    The one’s I know who moved into a McMansion in my very white neighborhood are not. I suspect they are race realists like a lot of non-Americans I know. In fact I would bet they are East Asian supremacists, since many are.

    East Asians, like everybody else, know that one is safest around white people. Everyone knows that. Everyone. Of every race. Even SJWs of every race.

    Isn’t it obvious by now that everyone in the world wants to live where the white people are?

    (And no, “Hispanic” is not white, so there is no need to clarify terms here.)

  88. @Stan Adams
    @Anonymous

    Dumber whites are more likely to believe in HBD than smarter ones - the former spend a lot more time around typical black and brown folks than the latter do.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @tsotha

    “Dumber whites are more likely to believe in HBD than smarter ones – the former spend a lot more time around typical black and brown folks than the latter do.”

    I have never lived in a neighborhood with a heavy Brown and Black presence. But I still know how their underclass behaves from using public transportation.

  89. @Jefferson
    @Steve Sailer

    "I suspect that Asians suspect Latins wouldn’t treat them as well as Anglos do."

    Why would Asian SJWs believe that Whites treat Asians better than Hispanics would?

    Asian social justice warriors believe Whites are the most racist and anti-Asian group in the world.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Brutusale

    You’ve never met a true racist until you’ve met an Asian, our boy Twinkie notwithstanding.

  90. @whorefinder
    Can't we compromise, and have all blue areas of the country employ 100% "disadvantaged" minorities at all white and blue collar professions ? And then the non-blue areas get to have a meritocracy? The Left gets to prove how tolerant it is while the non-left will suffer from being racist/sexist/xeonophobic/homophobic/transphobic and not get the actual best, which are always disadvantaged minorities?

    Wait, that would mean the left couldn't meddle in other people's lives in order to make them miserable. My bad.

    Replies: @Sbaker

    You sir are serious presidential material. We are in desperate need of a peaceful separation.

  91. @David
    @International Jew

    ...if Copernicus thought the heavens revolved around an afro.

    Note that the white kids are flatfooted whereas the black kid is striving.

    Replies: @Sean the Neon Caucasian, @JSM

    Or maybe it’s showing the black kid is less intelligent. The White boy and Asian girl were smart enough to go
    get some books and stack them in order to easily reach the black board.

  92. @Lot
    @Anonymous

    So before the ESL and poor kids who did not belong in gifted classes with students far smarter them were being de facto excluded by teachers not referring them.

    Now the smartest 2.5% of white kids in Florida, rather than go to classes with each other, are going to be taking classes with with Dominicans who don't know English and poor blacks who had a good day answering non-verbal IQ test puzzles but are less smart than a large number of white kids rejected from the gifted classes.

    That's Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio's Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don't go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Buffalo Joe, @Andrew

    “That’s Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio’s Florida for you. I am surprised slightly above middling NE Asian immigrants don’t go buy houses there knowing they can easily get their kids into gifted programs.”

    Florida’s schools haven’t been much to tout since the early 1970’s. Not much to work with nowadays, so why move there when you can go to schools elsewhere that have much better reputations?

    Can anyone name some accomplished Florida primary/secondary school grads off the top of their head? You know, prominent scientists, inventors, builders, businessmen, diplomats, etc.? I can’t.

    Florida doesn’t have much in the way of industry to help promote schools and education either.

  93. @Anonymous
    @Jen Jackson

    "Hi Zac, Sorry but you’re wrong about that. The higher the intelligence the more likely the person will be blessed with good physical health, good emotional health, good social skills or the ability to catch up in this area, and ability to rise above adversity, among other advantages."

    You know, I keep reading this, but a lot of the smartest kids at my high school were real nerds - fairly unattractive, unathletic, and socially awkward. I liked being in class with them because intellectually the classes were stimulating, but socially I missed not having some of the cooler kids in my classes. In fact, I purposefully took a certain elective for several semesters of high school so that I could be in a class with some fun, "normal" kids. Also, in the highly competitive university that I attended, there were lots of socially awkward, fairly nerdy students.

    Replies: @neon2

    Everybody in high school is either unattractive or socially awkward or unathletic.
    It’s called adolescence.

  94. Just more reason for capable parents of capable children to abandon politically managed schools.

    Keep it up; once the only people left using them are the chronically stupid & violent, the political will to keep funding them will evaporate.

    Ditto when means testing of Social Security & Medicare visibly arrives.

    No trees grow to the sky.

  95. @Zach
    It seems that the same people debunk the value of IQ testing believe very strongly in learning disabilities. What is the relationship between IQs and learning disabilities? Is a person with a high IQ score just a person without any learning disabilities?

    Replies: @snorlax, @kiismerh

    It depends on your definition of IQ. I prefer to think that IQ is more a measure of problem solving capability than of learning curve steepness. They correlate but that correlation can be small in case of dislexia etc.

  96. @Stan Adams
    @Anonymous

    Dumber whites are more likely to believe in HBD than smarter ones - the former spend a lot more time around typical black and brown folks than the latter do.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @tsotha

    White collar types don’t spend a lot of time with chronically unemployed or blue collar types in general. If you always work in an office with other people who went to good schools, particularly people with technical degrees, you get a badly skewed view of average intelligence.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  97. The quote says there was a difference in the threshold needed on the original “non-verbal ability test” in order for children to be referred for IQ testing, but it doesn’t say there was any difference in the threshold in the IQ score that would get a child placed in the “gifted” program. In fact, this comment immediately after the one you quoted seems to imply (though it does not make 100% clear) that there was not:

    Importantly, the IQ thresholds and other requirements for gifted eligibility were unchanged, so any increase in the number of students identified as gifted following the introduction of the program can be attributed to the screening effort, and not to a relaxation of the standards for gifted status.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jesse M.

    Read the comments above.

  98. @Jesse M.
    The quote says there was a difference in the threshold needed on the original "non-verbal ability test" in order for children to be referred for IQ testing, but it doesn't say there was any difference in the threshold in the IQ score that would get a child placed in the "gifted" program. In fact, this comment immediately after the one you quoted seems to imply (though it does not make 100% clear) that there was not:

    Importantly, the IQ thresholds and other requirements for gifted eligibility were unchanged, so any increase in the number of students identified as gifted following the introduction of the program can be attributed to the screening effort, and not to a relaxation of the standards for gifted status.
     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Read the comments above.

  99. @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    @Ed

    You highlight a gap that I think we all agree deserves our attention and resources, the one between individual potential and achievement.

    Even if it's worthwhile to invest in human potential in all segments of the bell curve, I still wonder how we decide how much of our resources to dedicate to the development of very modest potential on its far left tail? Is there a formula that we use to possibly compare the diminishing returns to investment for special ed versus using the resources to develop human potential among normal or gifted populations?

    Replies: @NOTA, @Jen Jackson

    You bring up a good point. Very bright children are disadvantaged by not being provided resources they can benefit from, whereas children placed in situations beyond their ability can be damaged by constantly struggling, boredom, and feeling intimidated by such experiences. Those of us who are used to being praised and rewarded for high achievement often don’t realize how opposite it is for the children who day after day struggle just to keep up with minimal reward. That is damaging for them. There’s all the talk about going on to college but not for them! Instead of fake rewards we should provide training programs in unskilled areas where such students can feel proud to be going on to get a certificate or degree in cooking, secretarial skills, electrician, mechanics, etc. and have basic core training for all in check writing, telephone answering etiquette, good social skills on the job with ones peers and with the boss, etc. Such training post high school could be valuable to the student and the work environment as well.

  100. Ah, I see that comment 33 shows that the minimum IQ threshold is reduced from 130 to 116 for low-SES kids and English-language learners. Still, these standards were apparently the same before as they were after the change in how they decided which children would get their IQs tested in the first place, so the result does at least show that there were significantly more black and hispanic children with IQs above 116 than were being identified before the change to the system.

  101. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    I don’t find it surprising at all that they had to lower the standards for blacks and hispanics in order to boost the numbers. It’s the kind of thing nobody’s willing to talk about because you get called a racist for even bringing it up, but it’s a simple fact that blacks and hispanics are generally less intelligent than whites (and whites in turn are generally less intelligent than asians). People with different genetic makeup have different abilities. Why aren’t we allowed to discuss that fact openly? No one gets offended when you say blacks can run faster and jump higher than whites (look at the racial makeup of the NBA for clear evidence), so why does everyone get offended when you say whites are smarter than blacks? We all have our strengths. Intelligence isn’t theirs. Running fast and jumping high isn’t ours.

    Call me a racist if you want, but you all know deep down it’s true.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS