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How Does Race-Does-Not-Existism Disprove the White-Black IQ Gap?
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Clearly, the various flavors of the Race Does Not Exist argument that have become immensely popular since the publication of The Bell Curve in 1994 are intended to head off the idea that the white-black IQ gap is probably partly genetic. But I can never make sense of exactly how that’s supposed to work, except in the most hand-waving form. For example, from the Review of General Psychology:

… In conjunction with the serious problems of racial categories, these fundamental issues led many critics to conclude that attempts to show a hereditary basis for group differences were both scientifically futile and constituted “epistemological violence” (Teo, 2008). This long history of scholarly critique implies that there was indeed a published literature to be countered and there were important scientific reasons why claims of Black inferiority might be rejected.

Hereditarians often ignore that human variation is clinal: “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary” (Fujimura et al., 2014, p. 210). Physical anthropologists achieved consensus that human variation was clinal, not categorical (American Association of Physical Anthropologists [AAPA], 2019).

For example, in the Sahara desert there is a cline (i.e., inclination) where the further south an oasis is on a caravan route, the blacker its inhabitants tend to be. But, in the big picture, so what? Not many people live in the Western Sahara.

Look, let’s be honest. One big reason that so many people of Establishment views are so worked up over blacks vs. whites is not because blacks and whites are so hard to tell apart but because they are so easy.

After World War II, population genetics revolutionized how scientists conceived of human variation (Jackson & Depew, 2017; Lipphardt, 2012, 2014). Jensen (1969) offered little novelty to claims of Black racial inferiority of intelligence except his use of the language of population genetics (Richards, 2012, pp. 307–328). Throughout his career, Jensen (1969, 1973, 1981, 1998) argued that folk races could be understood as genetic populations and borrowed the measure of heritability directly from geneticists. Herrnstein and Murray (1994) completely abandoned this approach, using racial self-identification alone (p. 271).

David Reich compared how 23andMe customers in the U.S. self-identified racially and how their genes turned out and found that those self-identifying as black were 385 times blacker genetically than those self-identifying as white.

This is not to say that there aren’t some mostly black people who misleadingly self-identify as white or that there are whites who misleadingly self-identify as black. But there aren’t all that many. Heck, when a white is found to have wrongly self-identified as black, it’s national news.

Most recently, some hereditarians have argued that they can define “race” arbitrarily (Winegard et al., 2020). Hereditarian equivocation about defining race dodges the crucial point: at no time have hereditarians shown that those Black Americans who have taken the IQ tests they report on are members of the same breeding population. Geneticists have known for nearly 70 years that they are not (Glass & Li, 1953; Stern, 1953).

They’re not? This reminds me of a George Carlin sketch:

And no hereditarian has ever argued that White Americans are a breeding population (Jorion, 1999).

Without genetic information on the individuals tested by IQ tests, it should be impossible to draw genetic conclusions from those tests. This may be a major factor why geneticists largely reject the conclusions of hereditarian psychology as we discuss below.

I’m always in favor of more information. So I’m happy that lately we are starting to get genetic information on IQ test takers, such as this extraordinary database of 9,498 young people in the Philadelphia area.

We will be getting more data like this.

 
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  1. If eliminating the idea of race isn’t enough, we’ll eliminate the idea of IQ. And if that isn’t enough, we’ll eliminate the idea of ‘gap’. There’s really no end to it–in fact, we’re just getting started.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Mr McKenna

    The only score gaps allowed will be in athletics.

    https://youtu.be/SDwuJbLYQf0

    , @Ano
    @Mr McKenna

    Yes, it's true there is 'no end to it' because negroid peoples will forever be, relatively speaking of course, dumber than the other races, but, if global IQ levels are going southwards over time, then who will be left around to worry between gaps when it's cretins arguing the toss with retards?

    I mean nobody wrings their hands over the cavemen IQs of Haitans or Australian Aborigines (ps: I'd like to point out some of my best friends are cavemen); nor toss and turn in their beds over the dearth of Papua New Guinean hill tribesmen Nobel Prize winners.

    If the American negro wishes to de-evolve and de-civilize, rejecting Western Education and Logicality, and return to a pre-1619 state of nature, then who are we to stand in his way?

    I think, future Mr S Sailers will look on all the heated emotionalism over race, IQ, and the gap, as we today look on puzzledly at the conflicts over Arianism and pre-and-post electric guitar Bob Dylan.

    Therefore, future intellectual elites of America (i.e. the Han-Ashkenazi-Brahmin elite governing hybridised caste) will look on the American negro tribesman, contented in his natural state of spearing deer in the grasslands of Detroit, while their womenfolk sit around the camp picking fleas off one another, as perfectly in tune with the natural order.

    Now, before you angrily accuse me of racism, I should point out the way white IQ is going down the toilet, future whites will most probably also be joining the negro as hunter-gathers, with the one difference: whites will still remember how to make a fire.

    PS: Dear iSteve Moderator. Have I been cancelled yet?

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Roger Scofield, @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    , @Mike Tre
    @Mr McKenna

    We’re eliminating the idea of civilization.

    , @Pop Warner
    @Mr McKenna

    The gap is necessary for the minority grievance industry. Professional activists and other hucksters need to show off disparities to justify their own existence, because as we know disparities are evidence that disparities are caused by racism. The Democrat platform for 2020 is based around these disparities, casting whites as the aggressors and non-whites (including some Asians) as the victims simply for differences in group outcomes. Without the gap, then what is Ibram X Kendi's purpose in life?

  2. This was well-known a century ago, as in Madison Grant and Lothrop Stoddard.

    The Rising Tide of Color: The Threat Against White World-Supremacy by Stoddard was positively reviewed by the New York Times. President Harding used the book (openly!) to promote his pro-segregation views.

    So, how do we explain that something so obviously true could nonetheless fail to be acted on? Well, Franz Boaz thought it was a bunch ol’ bunk. And his crowd came to dominate “elite” opinon. And apparently other Really Smart people who knew better, could be bossed around. And maybe they they put their careers ahead of their own people.

    However, the White working classes would act on this knowledge whenever given a chance. Even if fashionable people looked down on them. Notice the working class reaction to Enoch Powell: they took to the streets to support him. Or here in America, they supported anyone would speak the truth, whether it was Wallace or Duke or some GOP fella who seems to be talking to them.

    But, they were “low brow”, and Mommy’s Smart Boy would be embarrassed by them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @RichardTaylor

    I had wondered why Jews, like Boaz for instance take an interest in sociology and (cultural) anthropology. As a major, these are not very financially rewarding unless you are at the top of the heap as a professor.

    Then it occurred to me that if the objective of your tribe is to exploit, influence, and control the various ethnicities and races making up the globe, then first you must understand them. Think of it as reverse engineering. What makes them tick? How can they be manipulated? What are their strengths and weaknesses? Either you perform these studies by yourself or better yet, you tap into the university system and its existing body of work in sociology and anthropology, subverting it as you go. It's kind of like the R&D arm of a company. No, it doesn't make profit by itself, it enables profit.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

  3. anon[316] • Disclaimer says:

    “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”

    From the Florida Everglades to to the Olympic Penninsula we encounter several distinct categories of ecosystems:
    The Everglades “sea of grass”
    The upland oak/hickory forests of the mid South
    The great plains grasslands
    The sage brush deserts of the Great Basin
    The temperate rainforests of the Olympics

    Each of these ecosystems “gradually and continuously” change, with no sharp dividing line between them.
    Each of these ecosystems contains grass.
    Does that mean that grasslands don’t exist?
    Does it mean that the Olympic rainforests are really a grassland since an occasional blade of grass is found there?
    What makes the grassland a grassland is the dominance of grass in the area. It is a function of quantity and concentration.
    Likewise races are distinguished by the quantity and concentration of similar genes.
    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can’t overlap is just bad logic.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @anon


    For example, in the Sahara desert there is a cline (i.e., inclination) where the further south an oasis is on a caravan route, the blacker its inhabitants tend to be.
     
    The Sahara itself is a cline. There's no border between the Sahara and the not-Sahara like there's a border between the US and Mexico. There's no river where on this side of the river it's the Sahara and on the other side its some other place. It just gradually gets less and less desert-like and more and more savannah-like as you go south and the rainfall increases.

    But no one says the Sahara doesn't exist just because it is clinal at the edges. If you pop down in the middle of the desert you'll have no doubt that you're in a desert.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    , @AndrewR
    @anon

    Well said. But a tragically large percentage of people have no real experience with travel, so I prefer an analogy that even more people can easily grasp: seasons.

    In the vast majority of the world, the average temperature varies significantly by season.

    In Detroit, for example, May tends to be much warmer than March. To be more precise: the average high temperature is 24°F warmer in May and the average low is 20°F warmer. Virtually everyone in Detroit knows that May tends to be warmer than March, and virtually no one would object if you said "May is warmer than March."

    But, needless to say, the temperature on individual days can be greatly above or below average. I am all but certain that every year on record has at least one March day above 60°F and at least one May day that fails to get above 60°. So if someone wanted to be really pedantic, they would have some grounds to object if you said "May is warmer than March." But who wouldn't roll their eyes at such pedantry?

    The human races are similar to months in many ways, yet social taboos prevent us from talking about people the same way we talk about seasons.

    , @peterike
    @anon


    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can’t overlap is just bad logic.
     
    It is bad logic, but what it really is, is bad faith. The people making the "you can't draw a line" argument know full well that they are pushing a line of duplicitous baloney. That's the whole purpose of the exercise.

    Way too many people still like to give "scientists" the benefit of the doubt. Scientists are just as political and deceitful as anybody else. More so really, since their livelihoods often depend on it.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    , @William Badwhite
    @anon

    "The existence of dusk and dawn does not disprove the existence of night and day".

    - Some guy somewhere

  4. All scientific information is “socially constructed”. No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus’ taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.

    The best way to look at race is it being analogous to the sex/gender split. There is a biological realism element, the biological reality of race that has to do with shared ancestry its geographic isolation and the differing natural selection pressures applied to genes. Although labeled as “realism” it is still an arbitrary human construction. Biological sex is similar to biological race.

    Sociological race is how societies construct ways to confront the somewhat unusual phenomenon of racial diversity. This is slightly different from “gender” because within human experience, the default position is racial homogeneity throughout most human experience whereas all societies experience biological sex diversity and thus naturally develop sociological gender categories to respond to sex differences.

    Sociological race as an area of study can explain how various societies define white. In Jamaica, Kamala’s father is considered white whereas in the States he is vaguely black. Biologically his genes remain the same whichever society he enters and so scientific categories of race will certainly differ from sociological categories of race. Critics of the concept of biological race are demanding an impossible standard of objective truth which elsewhere they would deny in principle exists in this world.

    • Replies: @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Torn and Frayed


    All scientific information is “socially constructed”. No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus’ taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.
     
    De-constructionist crap like this is why we should all be thankful we have Physics -- the greatest of all the sciences.

    Roger Penrose should win a SECOND Nobel prize for his work in countering this sort of rubbish.

    Should the woke mob come for him, it is truly the end.

    Replies: @Torn and Frayed

    , @Jack D
    @Torn and Frayed


    All scientific information is “socially constructed”. No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus’ taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.
     
    This is simply not true. SOME scientific categories (as you say, the line between species) are somewhat clinal (have no bright line between them, but on the other hand this does not mean that such classifications are not extremely useful anyway). Others (e.g. the periodic table) exist by virtue of the fundamental laws of the universe and have always existed whether or not they were known to humans. They are no more socially constructed than some distant star is socially constructed because it has not yet been observed by the human eye. Not only do they exist, but they exist in completely discrete categories - there are no atoms that are the mischling offspring of nickel and copper atoms. There are no atoms with 28 1/2 protons - it's either 28 or 29. An atom is either one or the other. You can deconstruct the periodic table all you want but it won't change a damn thing about the nature of matter.

    Replies: @Torn and Frayed

    , @anon
    @Torn and Frayed

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”.

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true - name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    Replies: @Kratoklastes, @John Johnson, @Torn and Frayed, @Peter Lund

  5. anon[496] • Disclaimer says:

    “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”

    Because altitudes change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary.

    Therefore mountains and even hills do not exist. The entire land surface of the Earth is a plain.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @anon

    The curvature of the earth is on a cline. There is no clear dividing line between this hemisphere and that hemisphere. Therefore the earth is flat.

  6. Ron Unz successfully mocked this business a few years ago, when he argued, tongue in cheek, that hills don’t exist.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @Nicholas Stix

    Except Hispanic hills especially undocumented hills, those exist and are best.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

  7. Whether a category is a “social construct” is irrelevant to the physical properties, and physical differences, that may exist between the members of those categories.

    For instance, the division of North America into the US, Canada, and Mexico is a social construct. But each country still differs in its physical characteristics such as average temperature, elevation, rainfall, etc.

    Likewise, whether race is a social construct or not is irrelevant to whether there are genetic differences between races.

    Whether variation is clinal or not is irrelevant to whether we should use categories to describe it. For instance, the elevation of the Earth’s surface varies clinally, but we use terms such “mountain”, “valley” and “plains” to categorize its features. There is no reason to stigmatize use of these terms and replace them generic “clinal variation” unless you wanted to make it harder for people to understand what the surface of the Earth looks like (their goal in stigmatizing the concept of race is to make it harder to understand genetic variation among humans). Likewise rainfall varies and we use categories like desert and rainforest without controversy.

    Without genetic information on the individuals tested by IQ tests, it should be impossible to draw genetic conclusions from those tests.

    This is silly. We have known there are genetic differences between groups, such as male and female, or human and chimpanzee, long before we had any way of collecting individual genetic information, or even knew what DNA was.

    Regarding race as a concept, I think the strongest way to put it on sure footing is to define it as the largest clusters of genetic relatedness that can be found among human beings. Genetic relatedness clusters at all levels from nuclear families to extended families to tribes and so on. Race is just the name we give to the largest of these clusters. These clusters coexist, any individual is a member of many.

  8. OFF TOPIC

    UPDATE: This case is still pending. A jury trial is scheduled for Dec. 7, 2020 pic.twitter.com/iXN400DMC7— CrimeWatchMpls (@CrimeWatchMpls) October 12, 2020

  9. Hereditarians often ignore that human variation is clinal: “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”

    Astronomers often ignore that insolation is clinal: Because solar illumination changes gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary. Hence, there is no meaningful distinction between day and night.

    • Agree: Rob McX
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    Astronomers often ignore that insolation is clinal
     
    Don't be insolent.
  10. Speaking of collective IQ, looks like a passionate Biden supporter really screwed up this time, and Kamala Harris’ support for the BLM rioters is really going to kick her in the ass:

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-shooting-victim-identified-pro-cop-vet

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Anonymous

    He had to be shot you understand!? That wasn’t bear mace, that was Boogaloo Trump spray! A dangerous new biological weapon to convert blue pilled citizens into Trump supporters. He HAD to take the shot. Pure self defense pure and simple while saving the crowd. It’s code name is “Agent Orange” in Russia!

    That spray is a gateway drug to red pilled thinking.

    https://static.independent.co.uk/2020/10/11/02/APTOPIX_Denver_Protest_Shooting_30820.jpg?width=982&height=726

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Jus' Sayin'...

    , @Inquiring Mind
    @Anonymous

    Leaving aside the relative merits of the causes, and the relative likelihood of a successful self-defense argument, isn't pepper spraying a guy with gun, or attempting to grab the gun, whether or not he is pointing it at you, really lame?

    Isn't the better strategy to run away in a zig-zag "serpentine" fashion? This is explained to Alan Arkin by Peter Falk in The Inlaws

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+in-laws+peter+falk+run+serpentine&view=detail&mid=0B13624A6E8BD51D69800B13624A6E8BD51D6980&FORM=VIRE

    In hunting small animals, I am not able to hit any of them once they bolt -- I am only successful is they told still thinking I don't see them. Can you really hit someone who is running across your field of view?

    A cop I knew who went through Enlisted Basic Training in the Navy thought he was trained to hit a moving target, but I think it is pretty hard.

    Serpentine! Serpentine!

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

  11. Hereditarians often ignore that human variation is clinal: “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”

    LOL

    That tall thing on the left is Mt. Elbert, the highest mountain in Colorado, 14,440 feet.

    That other tall thing, on the right is Mt. Massive, the second highest mountain in Colorado, 14,428 feet.

    They happen to be next to each other, and between them things “change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline.”

    Nobody has any trouble seeing that they are two separate mountains. “The placement of any dividing line” IS NOT “arbitrary,” but rather OBVIOUS.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Fuzzy Set Theory (an eminently practical and post-hoc obvious idea) and the neighboring Fuzzy Logic got invented to formalize these cases (there is also Rough Set Theory if one needs it):

    Just assign "mountainness" value between 0 and 1 to an element of the landscape.

    Potentially racist robots (from C3P0 to PRR) will then detect two landscape features with a mountainness value of 1.0, a lot of features with mountainness value near 0 and some stuff in between.

  12. I can’t remember if it was Carletoon Coon or Lothrop Stoddard but one of them said something along the lines ‘It’s good that Africans exist because it makes demonstrating racial differences so much easier’.

  13. I’m not a careful student of HBD/IQ issues (viz I don’t have a strong science background, and since these appear to be largely scientific questions, I keep my nose out of it). But there’s an issue in the dreaded “gap” (which doesn’t exist, there is no gap, people just do what they do), which I never see addressed. I’ve been wondering about this for a while, and maybe it’s just been settled and I haven’t heard.

    The question is about the testosterone gap and the sexual maturity/development gap. It’s folk wisdom that blacks tend to have much more testosterone than other groups (I wouldn’t be surprised if black females have more T than Asian males). But there’s also the issue of sudden-onset high-T burst at the onset of sexual maturity.

    We all know the anecdotes of little De’Quantious who is such a cute, darling first grader at age six, who has a big smile, does well on tests, gets along with his white classmates and behaves himself in class. Then by age eleven, De’Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can’t spell anything right, can’t do math, won’t behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls. What happened?

    My guess is that at the early onset of puberty, a nuclear-level sudden discharge of testosterone fried all his IQ circuits, sort of like an EMP pulse attack, which gave him a massive physical advantage at the expense of his IQ and situational-awareness development.

    But it’s just an inference or a guess. Are there any reliable studies or informed opinions on this?

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @bomag
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    It is one of those things everyone knows, but there is scant infrastructure in the science community for studying such things.

    , @vhrm
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Then by age eleven, De’Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can’t spell anything right, can’t do math, won’t behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls.
     
    Whether it's at 11, 12 or 13, doesn't this describe a lot of guys of all races?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @John Johnson

    , @Whataboutery
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    https://www.columbianeurology.org/neurology/staywell/craniosynostosis

    Cranial sutures closing at puberty.

    Symptoms of increased pressure in the skull include:

    Full or bulging fontanelle (soft spot located on the top of the head)

    Sleepiness (or less alert than usual)

    Scalp veins may be very noticeable

    Increased irritability

    High-pitched cry

    Poor feeding

    Projectile vomiting

    Increasing head circumference

    Seizures

    Bulging eyes and an inability of the child to look upward with the head facing forward

    Developmental delays

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Your theory reminds me of the one proposed in the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica:


    The remarks of F. Manetta, made after a long study of the negro in America, may be taken as generally true of the whole race: “the negro children were sharp, intelligent and full of vivacity, but on approaching the adult period a gradual change set in....[T]he arrest or even deterioration in mental development is no doubt very largely due to the fact that after puberty sexual matters take the first place in the negro's life and thoughts.
     
  14. How does “Race-Does-Not-Existism” not disprove racism?

  15. We will be getting more data like this.

    Perhaps, but remember that eugenics were popular among a race actually interested in surviving in perpetuity, but then massive guilt over aspects of WW2 set in, followed a couple decades later by more guilt for the acts more than a century prior, and guilt turned to self-loathing. If this dataset starts to reveal the truth too clearly, either the tests will be severely monkied with in the name of equity, or the data will be brutally suppressed.

  16. Look, let’s be honest. One big reason that so many people of Establishment views are so worked up over blacks vs. whites is not because blacks and whites are so hard to tell apart but because they are so easy

    Let’s review.

    Poor impulse control.
    The belief the Blacks are superior.
    Low IQ
    Rude
    Loud
    A tendency to giggle, ook and eek before turning violent.
    The belief that whites must care for them.

    The list goes on.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  17. @Mr McKenna
    If eliminating the idea of race isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of IQ. And if that isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of 'gap'. There's really no end to it--in fact, we're just getting started.

    Replies: @Kronos, @Ano, @Mike Tre, @Pop Warner

    The only score gaps allowed will be in athletics.

  18. @Anonymous
    Speaking of collective IQ, looks like a passionate Biden supporter really screwed up this time, and Kamala Harris' support for the BLM rioters is really going to kick her in the ass:

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-shooting-victim-identified-pro-cop-vet

    Replies: @Kronos, @Inquiring Mind

    He had to be shot you understand!? That wasn’t bear mace, that was Boogaloo Trump spray! A dangerous new biological weapon to convert blue pilled citizens into Trump supporters. He HAD to take the shot. Pure self defense pure and simple while saving the crowd. It’s code name is “Agent Orange” in Russia!

    That spray is a gateway drug to red pilled thinking.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Kronos

    Now that's art. Paining a fine, Trumpy, orange mist in the air. Air painting! An orange statement of defiance against the Left (who happens to be on the right in this case.)

    Replies: @Kronos

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Kronos

    That photo is like THE Time-Life poster image for American Insanity 2020. (I had hoped that the pickup trucks filled with toilet paper would suffice, way back in March, but apparently we had much more crazy to do.)

    Look at this perfect storm: fat masked tattooed retard spraying giant mist of weird idiot gas at sketchily armed retard who could really have just turned and walked away from the Airborne Toxic Event, but instead opens fire-- ending one life, and permanently ruining his own.

    And not a single person's thinking or voting will have been changed by this turbo-charged moronicity. Everyone involved could have walked away. No one cares what retards think. There was no point worth making.

    Which manager do I demand to speak to, to get this ruined year of my life back? I demand a refund.

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Kronos

    One obvious conclusion: Don't bring a spray can to a gun fight.

    Replies: @Kronos

  19. @Mr McKenna
    If eliminating the idea of race isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of IQ. And if that isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of 'gap'. There's really no end to it--in fact, we're just getting started.

    Replies: @Kronos, @Ano, @Mike Tre, @Pop Warner

    Yes, it’s true there is ‘no end to it’ because negroid peoples will forever be, relatively speaking of course, dumber than the other races, but, if global IQ levels are going southwards over time, then who will be left around to worry between gaps when it’s cretins arguing the toss with retards?

    I mean nobody wrings their hands over the cavemen IQs of Haitans or Australian Aborigines (ps: I’d like to point out some of my best friends are cavemen); nor toss and turn in their beds over the dearth of Papua New Guinean hill tribesmen Nobel Prize winners.

    If the American negro wishes to de-evolve and de-civilize, rejecting Western Education and Logicality, and return to a pre-1619 state of nature, then who are we to stand in his way?

    I think, future Mr S Sailers will look on all the heated emotionalism over race, IQ, and the gap, as we today look on puzzledly at the conflicts over Arianism and pre-and-post electric guitar Bob Dylan.

    Therefore, future intellectual elites of America (i.e. the Han-Ashkenazi-Brahmin elite governing hybridised caste) will look on the American negro tribesman, contented in his natural state of spearing deer in the grasslands of Detroit, while their womenfolk sit around the camp picking fleas off one another, as perfectly in tune with the natural order.

    Now, before you angrily accuse me of racism, I should point out the way white IQ is going down the toilet, future whites will most probably also be joining the negro as hunter-gathers, with the one difference: whites will still remember how to make a fire.

    PS: Dear iSteve Moderator. Have I been cancelled yet?

    • Thanks: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @Ano

    You paint a scary picture, which is probably all too accurate. Not sure if I want to be around to see it.

    , @Roger Scofield
    @Ano

    This is brilliant, this is why I come here and I wasn't disappointed.

    , @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Ano

    The Final Solution to the race problem is as near as your TV set.
    All black males must mate with blonde shikses, and vice versa.

    https://i.ibb.co/0tSZkcy/20201012-143529.jpg

    Naw, nothing derogatory about that...

    Replies: @Jack D

  20. @Kronos
    @Anonymous

    He had to be shot you understand!? That wasn’t bear mace, that was Boogaloo Trump spray! A dangerous new biological weapon to convert blue pilled citizens into Trump supporters. He HAD to take the shot. Pure self defense pure and simple while saving the crowd. It’s code name is “Agent Orange” in Russia!

    That spray is a gateway drug to red pilled thinking.

    https://static.independent.co.uk/2020/10/11/02/APTOPIX_Denver_Protest_Shooting_30820.jpg?width=982&height=726

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Now that’s art. Paining a fine, Trumpy, orange mist in the air. Air painting! An orange statement of defiance against the Left (who happens to be on the right in this case.)

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The orange mist triggered the hired dude, thus he pulled an actual trigger.

  21. @Kronos
    @Anonymous

    He had to be shot you understand!? That wasn’t bear mace, that was Boogaloo Trump spray! A dangerous new biological weapon to convert blue pilled citizens into Trump supporters. He HAD to take the shot. Pure self defense pure and simple while saving the crowd. It’s code name is “Agent Orange” in Russia!

    That spray is a gateway drug to red pilled thinking.

    https://static.independent.co.uk/2020/10/11/02/APTOPIX_Denver_Protest_Shooting_30820.jpg?width=982&height=726

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Jus' Sayin'...

    That photo is like THE Time-Life poster image for American Insanity 2020. (I had hoped that the pickup trucks filled with toilet paper would suffice, way back in March, but apparently we had much more crazy to do.)

    Look at this perfect storm: fat masked tattooed retard spraying giant mist of weird idiot gas at sketchily armed retard who could really have just turned and walked away from the Airborne Toxic Event, but instead opens fire– ending one life, and permanently ruining his own.

    And not a single person’s thinking or voting will have been changed by this turbo-charged moronicity. Everyone involved could have walked away. No one cares what retards think. There was no point worth making.

    Which manager do I demand to speak to, to get this ruined year of my life back? I demand a refund.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  22. Moderately O/T

    Woke warriors outraged over Gal Gadot being cast as Cleopatra because she is not black – are ridiculed for not knowing the Egyptian Queen was GREEK

    ‘People are upset because Gal Gadot, who isn’t black, is playing Cleopatra, who wasn’t black either,’ Journalist Ian Miles Cheong quipped.

    Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8829671/Social-media-mocks-uneducated-outrage-Israeli-Gal-Gadot-cast-Cleopatra.html

    • Replies: @Tusk
    @The Alarmist

    Gadot isn't Greek and her larping (wonder woman) needs to stop.

    Replies: @Jack D

  23. @Mr McKenna
    If eliminating the idea of race isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of IQ. And if that isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of 'gap'. There's really no end to it--in fact, we're just getting started.

    Replies: @Kronos, @Ano, @Mike Tre, @Pop Warner

    We’re eliminating the idea of civilization.

  24. It’s inherently stupid. One argument I heard was that it can’t be that the average brain size or power differs between populations because humans have evolved to have as large a brain as possible.

    This is insane, the brain is the most metabolically expensive organ. It’s size and performance under conditions of natural selection will balance this cost with how intelligent a person needed to be to survive. Before you get into the issue that it’s size and shape differs non-trivially between individuals and populations. You might as well scratch your head about why all men in human populations don’t average 6 foot 4 since this is the most attractive height and seems to assist both in modern and pre-modern societies with confidence and social advancement. It’s metabolically expensive to grow and be tall.

    Of course, you have to ignore the within groups differences that are inherent (That people tend to believe in themselves given their experiences in school) and explain why the average between groups wouldn’t potentially be different like it is with lots of other traits.

    You have to have the most facile understand of genetics and traits to have to think you need a load of population specific alleles or STRs to generate average differences or constitute effective different populations, you only need to mess with their frequencies to get that. (How many population specific variants are there between various European ethnicities yet we know what people mean when they say somebody looks ‘Dutch’ or ‘Irish’) And you’d also have to commit the cardinal sin of science, you’d have to dismiss the contradiction with observable reality.

    But it’s really the appalling vista. Most people who are inclined to question this dogma openly don’t really seem to like black people very much and don’t have their best interests at heart. And the implication that once you accept this reality that the poor state of black America is immutable or will be used to suggest it is and to pursue policies that take resources away from them is obvious and, perhaps inevitable. (Particularly with mass migration displacing white people and African Americans)

    Even if you were an African American or non-black who felt empathy for their condition who believed it, would you ever support it given the consequences? Is there a way to rhetorically frame this that gets to Steve’s ideal of using this information to help everyone?

    Of course this is all an ad for homogeneous societies.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Altai


    Most people who are inclined to question this dogma openly don’t really seem to like black people very much and don’t have their best interests at heart
     
    Do black people have the best interests of whites at heart?
  25. @Buzz Mohawk

    Hereditarians often ignore that human variation is clinal: “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”
     
    LOL

    http://coloradoguy.com/tennessee-pass/mount-elbert-mount-massive.jpg

    That tall thing on the left is Mt. Elbert, the highest mountain in Colorado, 14,440 feet.

    That other tall thing, on the right is Mt. Massive, the second highest mountain in Colorado, 14,428 feet.

    They happen to be next to each other, and between them things "change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline."

    Nobody has any trouble seeing that they are two separate mountains. "The placement of any dividing line" IS NOT "arbitrary," but rather OBVIOUS.

    Replies: @El Dato

    Fuzzy Set Theory (an eminently practical and post-hoc obvious idea) and the neighboring Fuzzy Logic got invented to formalize these cases (there is also Rough Set Theory if one needs it):

    Just assign “mountainness” value between 0 and 1 to an element of the landscape.

    Potentially racist robots (from C3P0 to PRR) will then detect two landscape features with a mountainness value of 1.0, a lot of features with mountainness value near 0 and some stuff in between.

  26. “one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”

    But the same applies with the colors of the spectrum. Who can say at what precise wavelength green merged into yellow?

    Yet this does not mean that green and yellow are meaningless categories.

    As they say in the old country, you can awaken the sleeping, but not those pretending to sleep.

  27. @anon

    “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”
     
    From the Florida Everglades to to the Olympic Penninsula we encounter several distinct categories of ecosystems:
    The Everglades "sea of grass"
    The upland oak/hickory forests of the mid South
    The great plains grasslands
    The sage brush deserts of the Great Basin
    The temperate rainforests of the Olympics

    Each of these ecosystems "gradually and continuously" change, with no sharp dividing line between them.
    Each of these ecosystems contains grass.
    Does that mean that grasslands don't exist?
    Does it mean that the Olympic rainforests are really a grassland since an occasional blade of grass is found there?
    What makes the grassland a grassland is the dominance of grass in the area. It is a function of quantity and concentration.
    Likewise races are distinguished by the quantity and concentration of similar genes.
    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can't overlap is just bad logic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AndrewR, @peterike, @William Badwhite

    For example, in the Sahara desert there is a cline (i.e., inclination) where the further south an oasis is on a caravan route, the blacker its inhabitants tend to be.

    The Sahara itself is a cline. There’s no border between the Sahara and the not-Sahara like there’s a border between the US and Mexico. There’s no river where on this side of the river it’s the Sahara and on the other side its some other place. It just gradually gets less and less desert-like and more and more savannah-like as you go south and the rainfall increases.

    But no one says the Sahara doesn’t exist just because it is clinal at the edges. If you pop down in the middle of the desert you’ll have no doubt that you’re in a desert.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D

    If you pop down in the middle of the desert you’ll have no doubt that you’re in a desert.
     

    https://i.imgur.com/FRPtRrw_d.jpg
  28. @Ano
    @Mr McKenna

    Yes, it's true there is 'no end to it' because negroid peoples will forever be, relatively speaking of course, dumber than the other races, but, if global IQ levels are going southwards over time, then who will be left around to worry between gaps when it's cretins arguing the toss with retards?

    I mean nobody wrings their hands over the cavemen IQs of Haitans or Australian Aborigines (ps: I'd like to point out some of my best friends are cavemen); nor toss and turn in their beds over the dearth of Papua New Guinean hill tribesmen Nobel Prize winners.

    If the American negro wishes to de-evolve and de-civilize, rejecting Western Education and Logicality, and return to a pre-1619 state of nature, then who are we to stand in his way?

    I think, future Mr S Sailers will look on all the heated emotionalism over race, IQ, and the gap, as we today look on puzzledly at the conflicts over Arianism and pre-and-post electric guitar Bob Dylan.

    Therefore, future intellectual elites of America (i.e. the Han-Ashkenazi-Brahmin elite governing hybridised caste) will look on the American negro tribesman, contented in his natural state of spearing deer in the grasslands of Detroit, while their womenfolk sit around the camp picking fleas off one another, as perfectly in tune with the natural order.

    Now, before you angrily accuse me of racism, I should point out the way white IQ is going down the toilet, future whites will most probably also be joining the negro as hunter-gathers, with the one difference: whites will still remember how to make a fire.

    PS: Dear iSteve Moderator. Have I been cancelled yet?

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Roger Scofield, @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    You paint a scary picture, which is probably all too accurate. Not sure if I want to be around to see it.

  29. It seems to me that the groups that do best in the US tend to be from ancestral populations that had significant achievements in their homelands as well, and those that do the worst usually come from populations whose ancestors’ high water mark culturally was still centuries (at a minimum) behind the more successful groups.

    No one really wants to think too hard about this, thus we are supposed to focus on the supposed spiritual wisdom of the original inhabitants of the US, or how pretty kente cloth is. Definitely do not ask why the populations these two huge land masses with abundant resources (and in the case of the Americas, substantially fewer diseases) were lightly populated and thousands of years behind their conquerors in terms civilizational development.

    In the modern US, groups who are willing to leverage/exploit our legacy cultural and economic systems do very well. Those who decide they’d prefer to cling to a more ‘authentic’ and ethnically-centered existence do not.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Arclight


    Those who decide they’d prefer to cling to a more ‘authentic’ and ethnically-centered existence do not.
     
    There is nothing "authentic" about the ghetto lifestyle in America. It certainly has nothing to do with how their ancestors lived. Almost no one in America today (and that includes American Indians - their ancestors definitely didn't make their living running gambling casinos) lives according to the lifestyle of their ancestors. If you go back a few centuries, most of the world's population (and this include Europeans) made their living thru subsistence farming (sometimes supplemented by hunting and fishing or by grazing domestic animals on non-farmable land). Except for a handful of "back to nature" types, hardly anyone does that today. Modern farming (which only employs a small % of the workforce) is more akin to an industrial activity and bears little resemblance to traditional subsistence farming.

    Replies: @Arclight

  30. Do they have to disprove it? Seems like the deniers own both the media and education, so just repeat their position til people think its true. Maybe the better question is what is the agenda of the high IQ types here. The smart people seem to be the most destructive of all.

    • Replies: @GoRedWings!
    @Old and Grumpy


    what is the agenda of the high IQ types here
     
    It's an anti-egalitarian core issue. As long as you assume everyone is in fact created equal, you think admission rates to elite institutions are racist, sexist etc. Same for every other real-world distribution. To defend meritocracy against affirmative action, an explanation for unequal (i.e. not representative of the general population) outcomes is necessary.
  31. @anon

    “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”
     
    From the Florida Everglades to to the Olympic Penninsula we encounter several distinct categories of ecosystems:
    The Everglades "sea of grass"
    The upland oak/hickory forests of the mid South
    The great plains grasslands
    The sage brush deserts of the Great Basin
    The temperate rainforests of the Olympics

    Each of these ecosystems "gradually and continuously" change, with no sharp dividing line between them.
    Each of these ecosystems contains grass.
    Does that mean that grasslands don't exist?
    Does it mean that the Olympic rainforests are really a grassland since an occasional blade of grass is found there?
    What makes the grassland a grassland is the dominance of grass in the area. It is a function of quantity and concentration.
    Likewise races are distinguished by the quantity and concentration of similar genes.
    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can't overlap is just bad logic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AndrewR, @peterike, @William Badwhite

    Well said. But a tragically large percentage of people have no real experience with travel, so I prefer an analogy that even more people can easily grasp: seasons.

    In the vast majority of the world, the average temperature varies significantly by season.

    In Detroit, for example, May tends to be much warmer than March. To be more precise: the average high temperature is 24°F warmer in May and the average low is 20°F warmer. Virtually everyone in Detroit knows that May tends to be warmer than March, and virtually no one would object if you said “May is warmer than March.”

    But, needless to say, the temperature on individual days can be greatly above or below average. I am all but certain that every year on record has at least one March day above 60°F and at least one May day that fails to get above 60°. So if someone wanted to be really pedantic, they would have some grounds to object if you said “May is warmer than March.” But who wouldn’t roll their eyes at such pedantry?

    The human races are similar to months in many ways, yet social taboos prevent us from talking about people the same way we talk about seasons.

    • Thanks: Harry Baldwin
  32. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    I'm not a careful student of HBD/IQ issues (viz I don't have a strong science background, and since these appear to be largely scientific questions, I keep my nose out of it). But there's an issue in the dreaded "gap" (which doesn't exist, there is no gap, people just do what they do), which I never see addressed. I've been wondering about this for a while, and maybe it's just been settled and I haven't heard.

    The question is about the testosterone gap and the sexual maturity/development gap. It's folk wisdom that blacks tend to have much more testosterone than other groups (I wouldn't be surprised if black females have more T than Asian males). But there's also the issue of sudden-onset high-T burst at the onset of sexual maturity.

    We all know the anecdotes of little De'Quantious who is such a cute, darling first grader at age six, who has a big smile, does well on tests, gets along with his white classmates and behaves himself in class. Then by age eleven, De'Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can't spell anything right, can't do math, won't behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls. What happened?

    My guess is that at the early onset of puberty, a nuclear-level sudden discharge of testosterone fried all his IQ circuits, sort of like an EMP pulse attack, which gave him a massive physical advantage at the expense of his IQ and situational-awareness development.

    But it's just an inference or a guess. Are there any reliable studies or informed opinions on this?

    Replies: @bomag, @vhrm, @Whataboutery, @Harry Baldwin

    It is one of those things everyone knows, but there is scant infrastructure in the science community for studying such things.

  33. At the end of Anna Karenina the silly woman who has destroyed an enviable life with a series of bad moves kills herself by jumping in front of a train. Tolstoy tells us the last conscious thought she experienced was that she was making yet another mistake jumping in front of the train.

    Fiction!

  34. What I admire about this particular credentialed sophist is that he is willing to bite the bullet. Most of the time they make the bad “no categorical difference” argument, but then stop right there, so that they never bring the bad philosophy into contact with the genetic reality. But this guy actually believes that despite the striking differences in phenotype black people do not constitute a distinct breeding population. You have to have a lot of protective stupidity in place to set out that hypothesis and expect to have your views confirmed, but at least he’s consistent (for now).

  35. @Torn and Frayed
    All scientific information is "socially constructed". No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus' taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.

    The best way to look at race is it being analogous to the sex/gender split. There is a biological realism element, the biological reality of race that has to do with shared ancestry its geographic isolation and the differing natural selection pressures applied to genes. Although labeled as "realism" it is still an arbitrary human construction. Biological sex is similar to biological race.

    Sociological race is how societies construct ways to confront the somewhat unusual phenomenon of racial diversity. This is slightly different from "gender" because within human experience, the default position is racial homogeneity throughout most human experience whereas all societies experience biological sex diversity and thus naturally develop sociological gender categories to respond to sex differences.

    Sociological race as an area of study can explain how various societies define white. In Jamaica, Kamala's father is considered white whereas in the States he is vaguely black. Biologically his genes remain the same whichever society he enters and so scientific categories of race will certainly differ from sociological categories of race. Critics of the concept of biological race are demanding an impossible standard of objective truth which elsewhere they would deny in principle exists in this world.

    Replies: @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @Jack D, @anon

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”. No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus’ taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.

    De-constructionist crap like this is why we should all be thankful we have Physics — the greatest of all the sciences.

    Roger Penrose should win a SECOND Nobel prize for his work in countering this sort of rubbish.

    Should the woke mob come for him, it is truly the end.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Torn and Frayed
    @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    Labelling knowledge a "social construct" is not to call it false. It is nothing more than a tautology since all human knowledge is socially constructed. And the purpose of philosophical deconstruction is not to necessarily prove something "false". It is to research the genealogy of the field. Yes, this research can very well have a political agenda behind it.

    The tables have turned from 40 years ago. The left now flaunt cultural hegemony and it is they who will be getting lazy and declaring divine woke absolute truths. The right will now have to use the techniques of critical theory to try to undermine the left. Around 50 years ago Angela Davis was fired from from position as an assistant professor at UCLA for membership in the Communist Party. A judge annulled this dismissal but the next year she was again fired for "inflammatory language". Sound familiar? Back then the left was championing free speech and academic freedom -- the right was imposing a cancel culture. Fifty years later and the script is flipped.

    The right now have to acquaint themselves with and hone the use of subversion to undermine our current masters. No better place to start than to deconstruct the left's rise to power over the past 60 years.

  36. @Arclight
    It seems to me that the groups that do best in the US tend to be from ancestral populations that had significant achievements in their homelands as well, and those that do the worst usually come from populations whose ancestors' high water mark culturally was still centuries (at a minimum) behind the more successful groups.

    No one really wants to think too hard about this, thus we are supposed to focus on the supposed spiritual wisdom of the original inhabitants of the US, or how pretty kente cloth is. Definitely do not ask why the populations these two huge land masses with abundant resources (and in the case of the Americas, substantially fewer diseases) were lightly populated and thousands of years behind their conquerors in terms civilizational development.

    In the modern US, groups who are willing to leverage/exploit our legacy cultural and economic systems do very well. Those who decide they'd prefer to cling to a more 'authentic' and ethnically-centered existence do not.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Those who decide they’d prefer to cling to a more ‘authentic’ and ethnically-centered existence do not.

    There is nothing “authentic” about the ghetto lifestyle in America. It certainly has nothing to do with how their ancestors lived. Almost no one in America today (and that includes American Indians – their ancestors definitely didn’t make their living running gambling casinos) lives according to the lifestyle of their ancestors. If you go back a few centuries, most of the world’s population (and this include Europeans) made their living thru subsistence farming (sometimes supplemented by hunting and fishing or by grazing domestic animals on non-farmable land). Except for a handful of “back to nature” types, hardly anyone does that today. Modern farming (which only employs a small % of the workforce) is more akin to an industrial activity and bears little resemblance to traditional subsistence farming.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    @Jack D

    I put "authentic" in quotes because I understand perfectly well that it's not actually true. What matters is that tens of millions of people cling to and defend destructive behavior and habits under the guise of authenticity, when it's really just stupid and self defeating.

  37. Geography does not exist. If you start walking east from Stockton California, is there a line at which you can scientifically determine that the geography that identifies as the San Joaquin Valley ends, and the geography that thinks it’s the Sierra Nevada mountains begins? No, you can’t.
    The non-hereditarians are welcome to disprove the theories of the “geographists” by putting on t-shirts, shorts and sandals and walking east from Stockton California to Tonopah Nevada in February.

    • Replies: @Deckin
    @Alfa158

    Can't do it going east, but if you drive south on Highway 99, somewhere around Merced, you come to two trees in the median one due north of the other. The one on the north is a redwood, the one on the south is a palm tree. That's your clear cut, bright shining, ascocially constructed line between Northern and Southern California!

    , @John Johnson
    @Alfa158

    Geography is indeed a meaningless social creation of Euro-centric culture.

    Who can really say where a point is on a map? Once person's X is another person's Y.

    Aboriginals navigated without geography and yet the concept of a map was foreign to them. Our lines and points mean nothing to them.

    I did use a map the other day to find my way home and I guess there is shipping across oceans and stuff but other than that it is meaningless. In fact I don't think we should talk about it since the discussion itself only furthers the destructive aims of geographists. There was a peer reviewed study in fact that showed how geographists are overwhelmingly White and male.

  38. @Jack D
    @anon


    For example, in the Sahara desert there is a cline (i.e., inclination) where the further south an oasis is on a caravan route, the blacker its inhabitants tend to be.
     
    The Sahara itself is a cline. There's no border between the Sahara and the not-Sahara like there's a border between the US and Mexico. There's no river where on this side of the river it's the Sahara and on the other side its some other place. It just gradually gets less and less desert-like and more and more savannah-like as you go south and the rainfall increases.

    But no one says the Sahara doesn't exist just because it is clinal at the edges. If you pop down in the middle of the desert you'll have no doubt that you're in a desert.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    If you pop down in the middle of the desert you’ll have no doubt that you’re in a desert.

    • LOL: Mike Tre
  39. The only reason anybody cares about this “no such thing as race” thing is because they believe it somehow rules out a priori the possibility of genetic differences in racial intelligence. If not for that hope, nobody would think twice about acknowledging race. Yet even clinal variation isn’t really enough! As long as you acknowledge genetic variation, clinal or whatever, the possibility of genetic differences in intelligence cannot be ruled out. After all, even if human genetic variation really is clinal, sub-Saharan Africans still manage to have darker skin and curlier hair than most of the rest of humanity, so why couldn’t they differ in intelligence as well?

    The answer I believe is that the people most enthusiastic about “no such thing as race” are people who don’t understand genetics, and who believe that what “no such thing as race” means is that under the skin — i.e., aside from a handful of genes that control visible traits that cannot be denied, such as skin color and hair form — people from different parts of the world are genetically identical. I.e., they believe that “no such thing as race” means there is no genetic variation! This naive “folk” understanding of the genetics is contradicted by every study that has ever been done, and if it were true it would make it impossible for companies like 23andMe to correctly identify the continental ancestry of their clients.

    Nevertheless I believe it’s what has been driving the whole thing all along. The idea that we are all identical under the skin is so politically and emotionally powerful that it not only swept through the ranks of those who didn’t know enough genetics to know better, but also pulled in many people who should know better, but were open to a narrative that allowed them to believe what they wanted to believe. And because of the dangerous politics, those who actually do know better tend to keep their mouths shut, so there isn’t much visible dissent. Unfortunately I don’t see this changing any time soon.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @jb

    This is an argument whose purpose is to reassure people that they don’t have to believe (or think about, or listen to) the nasty people saying things that sound uncomfortably plausible but would be really uncomfortable to believe. The argument doesn’t have to hold together very well, because it’s not about being logically correct, but rather providing an excuse for not believing something they don’t want to believe.

  40. @Mr McKenna
    If eliminating the idea of race isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of IQ. And if that isn't enough, we'll eliminate the idea of 'gap'. There's really no end to it--in fact, we're just getting started.

    Replies: @Kronos, @Ano, @Mike Tre, @Pop Warner

    The gap is necessary for the minority grievance industry. Professional activists and other hucksters need to show off disparities to justify their own existence, because as we know disparities are evidence that disparities are caused by racism. The Democrat platform for 2020 is based around these disparities, casting whites as the aggressors and non-whites (including some Asians) as the victims simply for differences in group outcomes. Without the gap, then what is Ibram X Kendi’s purpose in life?

  41. @Mr. Anon

    Hereditarians often ignore that human variation is clinal: “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”
     
    Astronomers often ignore that insolation is clinal: Because solar illumination changes gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary. Hence, there is no meaningful distinction between day and night.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Astronomers often ignore that insolation is clinal

    Don’t be insolent.

  42. Charter (tax-funded) schools say that Black academic underachievement is due to a school funding gap.

    Charters are popular choices for inner-city Blacks.

    Charter schools receive less (enormous amounts of) tax money than traditional public schools receive; the capital projects account is off-limits.

    Therefore, the underachievement.

    Naturally the charter school industry wants to close the funding gap.

    It’s for the kids, don’t you know?

    [MORE]

    Speaking of school funding, the per-student, funding formula is based on a district’s student census.

    It’s Count Day season, around the country.

    Once or twice a year, Count Day(s), that day’s attendance figure is the census.

    The schools are going bonkers trying to take virtual attendance.

  43. @Ano
    @Mr McKenna

    Yes, it's true there is 'no end to it' because negroid peoples will forever be, relatively speaking of course, dumber than the other races, but, if global IQ levels are going southwards over time, then who will be left around to worry between gaps when it's cretins arguing the toss with retards?

    I mean nobody wrings their hands over the cavemen IQs of Haitans or Australian Aborigines (ps: I'd like to point out some of my best friends are cavemen); nor toss and turn in their beds over the dearth of Papua New Guinean hill tribesmen Nobel Prize winners.

    If the American negro wishes to de-evolve and de-civilize, rejecting Western Education and Logicality, and return to a pre-1619 state of nature, then who are we to stand in his way?

    I think, future Mr S Sailers will look on all the heated emotionalism over race, IQ, and the gap, as we today look on puzzledly at the conflicts over Arianism and pre-and-post electric guitar Bob Dylan.

    Therefore, future intellectual elites of America (i.e. the Han-Ashkenazi-Brahmin elite governing hybridised caste) will look on the American negro tribesman, contented in his natural state of spearing deer in the grasslands of Detroit, while their womenfolk sit around the camp picking fleas off one another, as perfectly in tune with the natural order.

    Now, before you angrily accuse me of racism, I should point out the way white IQ is going down the toilet, future whites will most probably also be joining the negro as hunter-gathers, with the one difference: whites will still remember how to make a fire.

    PS: Dear iSteve Moderator. Have I been cancelled yet?

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Roger Scofield, @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    This is brilliant, this is why I come here and I wasn’t disappointed.

  44. Hereditarians often ignore that human variation is clinal: “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories…

    Thus, those who so attempt could be called cline patsies.

    (Sorry. When I go walkin’ after midnight, I fall to pieces.)

    • LOL: FPD72, Harry Baldwin
  45. Surely this form of Race denial is just a version of the Sorites Paradox.

    1. A one ounce elephant is a small elephant.

    2. If I have a small elephant, and I raise its weight by one ounce, it is still a small elephant.

    Hence, all elephants are small.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @martin_2

    "Race does not exist" is just the flip side of the One Drop Rule. They both deny that a category can be clinal and still remain useful and so are equally stupid. (Anti-maskers make the same error - masks are not 100% effective so therefore all masks are useless. For that matter, so do maskers - all masks are good, so putting a dirty rag in front of your face is the same thing as wearing a properly fitted sterile N95).

    According to "Race does not exist" there's no difference between the land and the water - some places on earth are a little bit wet and other places are more wet, but there's water almost everywhere - I can look out on my driveway right now and see some puddles. Therefore "land" does not really exist. So it's fine to put up a house in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. What could go wrong? According to the One Drop Rule, the only place you can safely put up a house are places that never receive even a single drop of rain. That way you can be sure that it will never flood. Therefore we all have to live in Death Valley.

    People who are NOT stupid make flood zone maps - it rains everywhere but some places get more accumulated rain than others to the point where we can draw a line and say, build here and not there. Even though this line is subjective and is a human construct, it's still extremely useful and comports with common sense in a way that bright line tests do not.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  46. @Nicholas Stix
    Ron Unz successfully mocked this business a few years ago, when he argued, tongue in cheek, that hills don't exist.

    Replies: @TWS

    Except Hispanic hills especially undocumented hills, those exist and are best.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @TWS

    Thanks for the correction; I'd forgotten that.

  47. @anon

    “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”
     
    From the Florida Everglades to to the Olympic Penninsula we encounter several distinct categories of ecosystems:
    The Everglades "sea of grass"
    The upland oak/hickory forests of the mid South
    The great plains grasslands
    The sage brush deserts of the Great Basin
    The temperate rainforests of the Olympics

    Each of these ecosystems "gradually and continuously" change, with no sharp dividing line between them.
    Each of these ecosystems contains grass.
    Does that mean that grasslands don't exist?
    Does it mean that the Olympic rainforests are really a grassland since an occasional blade of grass is found there?
    What makes the grassland a grassland is the dominance of grass in the area. It is a function of quantity and concentration.
    Likewise races are distinguished by the quantity and concentration of similar genes.
    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can't overlap is just bad logic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AndrewR, @peterike, @William Badwhite

    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can’t overlap is just bad logic.

    It is bad logic, but what it really is, is bad faith. The people making the “you can’t draw a line” argument know full well that they are pushing a line of duplicitous baloney. That’s the whole purpose of the exercise.

    Way too many people still like to give “scientists” the benefit of the doubt. Scientists are just as political and deceitful as anybody else. More so really, since their livelihoods often depend on it.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @peterike

    It is bad logic, but what it really is, is bad faith. The people making the “you can’t draw a line” argument know full well that they are pushing a line of duplicitous baloney. That’s the whole purpose of the exercise.

    Correct, they know exactly what they are doing.

    It's an attempt at avoiding or dropping out of an argument.

    All of a sudden the meaning of words that liberals commonly use are suddenly questioned.

    They will start a debate blaming Whites but if the debate goes to questions about genetics the meaning of Whites is all of a sudden too arbitrary to use.

    Then it turns into a weak "cause science says so" argument. They are basically saying that social scientists have approved this method of avoiding unwanted talks about race.

  48. @Kronos
    @Anonymous

    He had to be shot you understand!? That wasn’t bear mace, that was Boogaloo Trump spray! A dangerous new biological weapon to convert blue pilled citizens into Trump supporters. He HAD to take the shot. Pure self defense pure and simple while saving the crowd. It’s code name is “Agent Orange” in Russia!

    That spray is a gateway drug to red pilled thinking.

    https://static.independent.co.uk/2020/10/11/02/APTOPIX_Denver_Protest_Shooting_30820.jpg?width=982&height=726

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Jus' Sayin'...

    One obvious conclusion: Don’t bring a spray can to a gun fight.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    In all fairness he actually did. He brought a Beretta “Boomer” 45.

    https://is2.4chan.org/k/1602415527069.jpg

    It’s certainly not the perpetrator’s gun.

    https://i.4cdn.org/k/1602423708906.png

    Thanks /K/!

    https://boards.4channel.org/k/thread/46897591

  49. @Alfa158
    Geography does not exist. If you start walking east from Stockton California, is there a line at which you can scientifically determine that the geography that identifies as the San Joaquin Valley ends, and the geography that thinks it’s the Sierra Nevada mountains begins? No, you can’t.
    The non-hereditarians are welcome to disprove the theories of the “geographists” by putting on t-shirts, shorts and sandals and walking east from Stockton California to Tonopah Nevada in February.

    Replies: @Deckin, @John Johnson

    Can’t do it going east, but if you drive south on Highway 99, somewhere around Merced, you come to two trees in the median one due north of the other. The one on the north is a redwood, the one on the south is a palm tree. That’s your clear cut, bright shining, ascocially constructed line between Northern and Southern California!

  50. @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Torn and Frayed


    All scientific information is “socially constructed”. No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus’ taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.
     
    De-constructionist crap like this is why we should all be thankful we have Physics -- the greatest of all the sciences.

    Roger Penrose should win a SECOND Nobel prize for his work in countering this sort of rubbish.

    Should the woke mob come for him, it is truly the end.

    Replies: @Torn and Frayed

    Labelling knowledge a “social construct” is not to call it false. It is nothing more than a tautology since all human knowledge is socially constructed. And the purpose of philosophical deconstruction is not to necessarily prove something “false”. It is to research the genealogy of the field. Yes, this research can very well have a political agenda behind it.

    The tables have turned from 40 years ago. The left now flaunt cultural hegemony and it is they who will be getting lazy and declaring divine woke absolute truths. The right will now have to use the techniques of critical theory to try to undermine the left. Around 50 years ago Angela Davis was fired from from position as an assistant professor at UCLA for membership in the Communist Party. A judge annulled this dismissal but the next year she was again fired for “inflammatory language”. Sound familiar? Back then the left was championing free speech and academic freedom — the right was imposing a cancel culture. Fifty years later and the script is flipped.

    The right now have to acquaint themselves with and hone the use of subversion to undermine our current masters. No better place to start than to deconstruct the left’s rise to power over the past 60 years.

  51. Anonymous[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @RichardTaylor
    This was well-known a century ago, as in Madison Grant and Lothrop Stoddard.

    The Rising Tide of Color: The Threat Against White World-Supremacy by Stoddard was positively reviewed by the New York Times. President Harding used the book (openly!) to promote his pro-segregation views.

    So, how do we explain that something so obviously true could nonetheless fail to be acted on? Well, Franz Boaz thought it was a bunch ol' bunk. And his crowd came to dominate "elite" opinon. And apparently other Really Smart people who knew better, could be bossed around. And maybe they they put their careers ahead of their own people.

    However, the White working classes would act on this knowledge whenever given a chance. Even if fashionable people looked down on them. Notice the working class reaction to Enoch Powell: they took to the streets to support him. Or here in America, they supported anyone would speak the truth, whether it was Wallace or Duke or some GOP fella who seems to be talking to them.

    But, they were "low brow", and Mommy's Smart Boy would be embarrassed by them.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I had wondered why Jews, like Boaz for instance take an interest in sociology and (cultural) anthropology. As a major, these are not very financially rewarding unless you are at the top of the heap as a professor.

    Then it occurred to me that if the objective of your tribe is to exploit, influence, and control the various ethnicities and races making up the globe, then first you must understand them. Think of it as reverse engineering. What makes them tick? How can they be manipulated? What are their strengths and weaknesses? Either you perform these studies by yourself or better yet, you tap into the university system and its existing body of work in sociology and anthropology, subverting it as you go. It’s kind of like the R&D arm of a company. No, it doesn’t make profit by itself, it enables profit.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @Anonymous

    My brother majored in Sociology and is now high up in a government agency making good money.

  52. @Torn and Frayed
    All scientific information is "socially constructed". No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus' taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.

    The best way to look at race is it being analogous to the sex/gender split. There is a biological realism element, the biological reality of race that has to do with shared ancestry its geographic isolation and the differing natural selection pressures applied to genes. Although labeled as "realism" it is still an arbitrary human construction. Biological sex is similar to biological race.

    Sociological race is how societies construct ways to confront the somewhat unusual phenomenon of racial diversity. This is slightly different from "gender" because within human experience, the default position is racial homogeneity throughout most human experience whereas all societies experience biological sex diversity and thus naturally develop sociological gender categories to respond to sex differences.

    Sociological race as an area of study can explain how various societies define white. In Jamaica, Kamala's father is considered white whereas in the States he is vaguely black. Biologically his genes remain the same whichever society he enters and so scientific categories of race will certainly differ from sociological categories of race. Critics of the concept of biological race are demanding an impossible standard of objective truth which elsewhere they would deny in principle exists in this world.

    Replies: @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @Jack D, @anon

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”. No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus’ taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.

    This is simply not true. SOME scientific categories (as you say, the line between species) are somewhat clinal (have no bright line between them, but on the other hand this does not mean that such classifications are not extremely useful anyway). Others (e.g. the periodic table) exist by virtue of the fundamental laws of the universe and have always existed whether or not they were known to humans. They are no more socially constructed than some distant star is socially constructed because it has not yet been observed by the human eye. Not only do they exist, but they exist in completely discrete categories – there are no atoms that are the mischling offspring of nickel and copper atoms. There are no atoms with 28 1/2 protons – it’s either 28 or 29. An atom is either one or the other. You can deconstruct the periodic table all you want but it won’t change a damn thing about the nature of matter.

    • Replies: @Torn and Frayed
    @Jack D

    The periodic table is absolutely socially constructed. Yes the discrete elements and exist whether they are known or not to humans. But the minute a human discovers them then this discovery must pass through a social construction and be processed into the table. The elements themselves exist, the intellectual process of organizing them onto a table is a social construction. The number of elements on the table strongly depends on the stage of development and the material conditions of the society. For example in an African society at the stage of development (if we imagine no Islamic or European colonialism) their periodic table of elements would be vastly differently socially constructed than one developed in Europe. And in Europe there is a rich history of societies discovering the various elements over time. And 16 elements were discovered at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab.

    So the elements themselves exist outside of human knowledge. But their discovery and organization onto the periodic table is a social construction. The history of the process of building the periodic table of elements can be studied and deconstructed. In fact there are plenty of alternative periodic tables of elements, each with its advantages and disadvantages. Any of these ways of organizing could have been the preferred social construction of the period table.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_periodic_tables

    Replies: @Jack D

  53. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Kronos

    Now that's art. Paining a fine, Trumpy, orange mist in the air. Air painting! An orange statement of defiance against the Left (who happens to be on the right in this case.)

    Replies: @Kronos

    The orange mist triggered the hired dude, thus he pulled an actual trigger.

  54. @martin_2
    Surely this form of Race denial is just a version of the Sorites Paradox.

    1. A one ounce elephant is a small elephant.

    2. If I have a small elephant, and I raise its weight by one ounce, it is still a small elephant.

    Hence, all elephants are small.

    Replies: @Jack D

    “Race does not exist” is just the flip side of the One Drop Rule. They both deny that a category can be clinal and still remain useful and so are equally stupid. (Anti-maskers make the same error – masks are not 100% effective so therefore all masks are useless. For that matter, so do maskers – all masks are good, so putting a dirty rag in front of your face is the same thing as wearing a properly fitted sterile N95).

    According to “Race does not exist” there’s no difference between the land and the water – some places on earth are a little bit wet and other places are more wet, but there’s water almost everywhere – I can look out on my driveway right now and see some puddles. Therefore “land” does not really exist. So it’s fine to put up a house in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. What could go wrong? According to the One Drop Rule, the only place you can safely put up a house are places that never receive even a single drop of rain. That way you can be sure that it will never flood. Therefore we all have to live in Death Valley.

    People who are NOT stupid make flood zone maps – it rains everywhere but some places get more accumulated rain than others to the point where we can draw a line and say, build here and not there. Even though this line is subjective and is a human construct, it’s still extremely useful and comports with common sense in a way that bright line tests do not.

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Jack D

    DV is vulnerable to flash-flooding.

  55. @anon

    “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”
     
    From the Florida Everglades to to the Olympic Penninsula we encounter several distinct categories of ecosystems:
    The Everglades "sea of grass"
    The upland oak/hickory forests of the mid South
    The great plains grasslands
    The sage brush deserts of the Great Basin
    The temperate rainforests of the Olympics

    Each of these ecosystems "gradually and continuously" change, with no sharp dividing line between them.
    Each of these ecosystems contains grass.
    Does that mean that grasslands don't exist?
    Does it mean that the Olympic rainforests are really a grassland since an occasional blade of grass is found there?
    What makes the grassland a grassland is the dominance of grass in the area. It is a function of quantity and concentration.
    Likewise races are distinguished by the quantity and concentration of similar genes.
    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can't overlap is just bad logic.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AndrewR, @peterike, @William Badwhite

    “The existence of dusk and dawn does not disprove the existence of night and day”.

    – Some guy somewhere

  56. anon[136] • Disclaimer says:
    @Torn and Frayed
    All scientific information is "socially constructed". No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus' taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.

    The best way to look at race is it being analogous to the sex/gender split. There is a biological realism element, the biological reality of race that has to do with shared ancestry its geographic isolation and the differing natural selection pressures applied to genes. Although labeled as "realism" it is still an arbitrary human construction. Biological sex is similar to biological race.

    Sociological race is how societies construct ways to confront the somewhat unusual phenomenon of racial diversity. This is slightly different from "gender" because within human experience, the default position is racial homogeneity throughout most human experience whereas all societies experience biological sex diversity and thus naturally develop sociological gender categories to respond to sex differences.

    Sociological race as an area of study can explain how various societies define white. In Jamaica, Kamala's father is considered white whereas in the States he is vaguely black. Biologically his genes remain the same whichever society he enters and so scientific categories of race will certainly differ from sociological categories of race. Critics of the concept of biological race are demanding an impossible standard of objective truth which elsewhere they would deny in principle exists in this world.

    Replies: @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @Jack D, @anon

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”.

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true – name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    @anon


    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true
     
    Nope.
    , @John Johnson
    @anon

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true – name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    The words combined to convey the equation are socially constructed just like racial taxonomic definitions.

    The equation exists outside of our words and so does race.

    DNA differences exist and while racial terms are not as precise we can still observe patterns and make predictions with them. The egalitarian argument of racial terms being a "social construct" and therefore meaningless is logical fallacy of equivocation.

    , @Torn and Frayed
    @anon

    Does nature simply reveal itself indiscriminately to any and all men? No, a society must develop a material need for scientific knowledge and then develop an ideological superstructure that allows and aids the construction the necessary intellectual “tools” or a social lens that allows the clear observation of natural laws. This social lens includes rational standards of inquiry, free and open discussion, sharing of ideas and data, a baseline attitude of doubt / skepticism. Most importantly of all, the status quo ideological power structure must allow (or at least tolerate or lack the means to stop) the free pursuit of knowledge. This last condition is not at all the default position in human societies. So it is only through a society's social lens that our knowledge of nature can be constructed.

    The fact that our knowledge of nature is socially constructed does not mean the knowledge qua knowledge is relative. It means that the different social lenses of various cultures that any knowledge of nature must traverse are relative. Within the dominant Western social infrastructure Newton’s 2nd Law of Motion is indeed replicable all over the globe. But testing this law through the societal lens of peoples and cultures that reject or are ignorant of the dominant Western social infrastructure, including an increasing number of people living in Western societies, could very well result in a determination of falsehood for this law relative to their ideological super structure. So yes, there are likely many cultures on earth where this law is "false". Declaring this law universal presupposes the ubiquity of the Western social lens. But the Western social lens far from universal and is even under increasing threat within its own culture.

    Scientific skepticism is a necessary part of the Western social lens but it is also a “backdoor” for intellectual authoritarianism to attempt to shatter the Western social lens.

    , @Peter Lund
    @anon

    Like, do forces even exist, man? Has anybody ever even seen a force?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_mechanics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamiltonian_mechanics

  57. The cline nonsense has a name. The Continuum Fallacy.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox#Continuum_fallacy

    • Thanks: Harry Baldwin
  58. @Jack D
    @Arclight


    Those who decide they’d prefer to cling to a more ‘authentic’ and ethnically-centered existence do not.
     
    There is nothing "authentic" about the ghetto lifestyle in America. It certainly has nothing to do with how their ancestors lived. Almost no one in America today (and that includes American Indians - their ancestors definitely didn't make their living running gambling casinos) lives according to the lifestyle of their ancestors. If you go back a few centuries, most of the world's population (and this include Europeans) made their living thru subsistence farming (sometimes supplemented by hunting and fishing or by grazing domestic animals on non-farmable land). Except for a handful of "back to nature" types, hardly anyone does that today. Modern farming (which only employs a small % of the workforce) is more akin to an industrial activity and bears little resemblance to traditional subsistence farming.

    Replies: @Arclight

    I put “authentic” in quotes because I understand perfectly well that it’s not actually true. What matters is that tens of millions of people cling to and defend destructive behavior and habits under the guise of authenticity, when it’s really just stupid and self defeating.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  59. @Ano
    @Mr McKenna

    Yes, it's true there is 'no end to it' because negroid peoples will forever be, relatively speaking of course, dumber than the other races, but, if global IQ levels are going southwards over time, then who will be left around to worry between gaps when it's cretins arguing the toss with retards?

    I mean nobody wrings their hands over the cavemen IQs of Haitans or Australian Aborigines (ps: I'd like to point out some of my best friends are cavemen); nor toss and turn in their beds over the dearth of Papua New Guinean hill tribesmen Nobel Prize winners.

    If the American negro wishes to de-evolve and de-civilize, rejecting Western Education and Logicality, and return to a pre-1619 state of nature, then who are we to stand in his way?

    I think, future Mr S Sailers will look on all the heated emotionalism over race, IQ, and the gap, as we today look on puzzledly at the conflicts over Arianism and pre-and-post electric guitar Bob Dylan.

    Therefore, future intellectual elites of America (i.e. the Han-Ashkenazi-Brahmin elite governing hybridised caste) will look on the American negro tribesman, contented in his natural state of spearing deer in the grasslands of Detroit, while their womenfolk sit around the camp picking fleas off one another, as perfectly in tune with the natural order.

    Now, before you angrily accuse me of racism, I should point out the way white IQ is going down the toilet, future whites will most probably also be joining the negro as hunter-gathers, with the one difference: whites will still remember how to make a fire.

    PS: Dear iSteve Moderator. Have I been cancelled yet?

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Roger Scofield, @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    The Final Solution to the race problem is as near as your TV set.
    All black males must mate with blonde shikses, and vice versa.

    Naw, nothing derogatory about that

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    Words can lose their original derogatory meaning over time. Eskimo originally meant "eater of raw meat". Such is the case with sheygets. Say you are an American Jew and your son turns out to be a strapping blond haired all-American looking guy who loves to play sports. (After the paternity test comes back), you might brag to your (Jewish) friends, "he looks like a real sheygets". If sheygets still meant "abomination" would you say that?

    Replies: @jsm, @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

  60. @Jack D
    @martin_2

    "Race does not exist" is just the flip side of the One Drop Rule. They both deny that a category can be clinal and still remain useful and so are equally stupid. (Anti-maskers make the same error - masks are not 100% effective so therefore all masks are useless. For that matter, so do maskers - all masks are good, so putting a dirty rag in front of your face is the same thing as wearing a properly fitted sterile N95).

    According to "Race does not exist" there's no difference between the land and the water - some places on earth are a little bit wet and other places are more wet, but there's water almost everywhere - I can look out on my driveway right now and see some puddles. Therefore "land" does not really exist. So it's fine to put up a house in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. What could go wrong? According to the One Drop Rule, the only place you can safely put up a house are places that never receive even a single drop of rain. That way you can be sure that it will never flood. Therefore we all have to live in Death Valley.

    People who are NOT stupid make flood zone maps - it rains everywhere but some places get more accumulated rain than others to the point where we can draw a line and say, build here and not there. Even though this line is subjective and is a human construct, it's still extremely useful and comports with common sense in a way that bright line tests do not.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    DV is vulnerable to flash-flooding.

  61. @anon

    “Because traits change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary”
     
    Because altitudes change gradually and continuously across geographic space in a cline, one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories; the placement of any dividing line will be arbitrary.

    Therefore mountains and even hills do not exist. The entire land surface of the Earth is a plain.

    Replies: @Anon

    The curvature of the earth is on a cline. There is no clear dividing line between this hemisphere and that hemisphere. Therefore the earth is flat.

  62. @Jack D
    @Torn and Frayed


    All scientific information is “socially constructed”. No knowledge drops down to us from the hands of God. Carolus Linnaeus’ taxonometric categories are socially constructed and have elements of arbitrariness within them. All human knowledge is socially constructed and thus open to philosophical deconstruction.
     
    This is simply not true. SOME scientific categories (as you say, the line between species) are somewhat clinal (have no bright line between them, but on the other hand this does not mean that such classifications are not extremely useful anyway). Others (e.g. the periodic table) exist by virtue of the fundamental laws of the universe and have always existed whether or not they were known to humans. They are no more socially constructed than some distant star is socially constructed because it has not yet been observed by the human eye. Not only do they exist, but they exist in completely discrete categories - there are no atoms that are the mischling offspring of nickel and copper atoms. There are no atoms with 28 1/2 protons - it's either 28 or 29. An atom is either one or the other. You can deconstruct the periodic table all you want but it won't change a damn thing about the nature of matter.

    Replies: @Torn and Frayed

    The periodic table is absolutely socially constructed. Yes the discrete elements and exist whether they are known or not to humans. But the minute a human discovers them then this discovery must pass through a social construction and be processed into the table. The elements themselves exist, the intellectual process of organizing them onto a table is a social construction. The number of elements on the table strongly depends on the stage of development and the material conditions of the society. For example in an African society at the stage of development (if we imagine no Islamic or European colonialism) their periodic table of elements would be vastly differently socially constructed than one developed in Europe. And in Europe there is a rich history of societies discovering the various elements over time. And 16 elements were discovered at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab.

    So the elements themselves exist outside of human knowledge. But their discovery and organization onto the periodic table is a social construction. The history of the process of building the periodic table of elements can be studied and deconstructed. In fact there are plenty of alternative periodic tables of elements, each with its advantages and disadvantages. Any of these ways of organizing could have been the preferred social construction of the period table.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_periodic_tables

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Torn and Frayed

    Yes, the organization of the table is a human construct. If we ever encounter a civilization from another planet, they might have their table organized in a different way (or it might be the same or very similar to Mendeleev's or one of the alternative layouts - scientific discoveries are often made more than once). But copper will still be copper and nickel will still be nickel anywhere in the universe.

  63. @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Ano

    The Final Solution to the race problem is as near as your TV set.
    All black males must mate with blonde shikses, and vice versa.

    https://i.ibb.co/0tSZkcy/20201012-143529.jpg

    Naw, nothing derogatory about that...

    Replies: @Jack D

    Words can lose their original derogatory meaning over time. Eskimo originally meant “eater of raw meat”. Such is the case with sheygets. Say you are an American Jew and your son turns out to be a strapping blond haired all-American looking guy who loves to play sports. (After the paternity test comes back), you might brag to your (Jewish) friends, “he looks like a real sheygets”. If sheygets still meant “abomination” would you say that?

    • Replies: @jsm
    @Jack D

    Interesting, isn't it, that a slur word applied to White people has lost its sting (if what you're saying is true.)

    Whereas, many a word that was originally a neutral way to refer to those of African descent (Negro, colored, even the n-word) have all become shocking insults.

    Funny, that.

    , @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Jack D

    Do you mean like Woody Allen and Ronan Farrow? No personal experience with the phenomenon you describe but knowing jews it's no stretch to imagine that such a father would readily disparage the progeny of his shiksa wife and her tennis coach.

  64. I think this is a dangerous area to broach. It is best brought up ONLY as a counter to disparate impact arguments.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/black-children-more-three-times-more-likely-die-after-surgery

    Researchers analyzed data from 172,549 surgeries across 186 medical centers in the United States between 2012 and 2017, focusing exclusively on children scored as “healthy” by their doctors. The results, published this month in Pediatrics, show that Black children were 18% more likely to face complications like sepsis or severe bleeding, and 3.43 times more likely to die, compared with white children

  65. @anon
    @Torn and Frayed

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”.

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true - name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    Replies: @Kratoklastes, @John Johnson, @Torn and Frayed, @Peter Lund

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true

    Nope.

  66. @Anonymous
    Speaking of collective IQ, looks like a passionate Biden supporter really screwed up this time, and Kamala Harris' support for the BLM rioters is really going to kick her in the ass:

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/denver-shooting-victim-identified-pro-cop-vet

    Replies: @Kronos, @Inquiring Mind

    Leaving aside the relative merits of the causes, and the relative likelihood of a successful self-defense argument, isn’t pepper spraying a guy with gun, or attempting to grab the gun, whether or not he is pointing it at you, really lame?

    Isn’t the better strategy to run away in a zig-zag “serpentine” fashion? This is explained to Alan Arkin by Peter Falk in The Inlaws

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+in-laws+peter+falk+run+serpentine&view=detail&mid=0B13624A6E8BD51D69800B13624A6E8BD51D6980&FORM=VIRE

    In hunting small animals, I am not able to hit any of them once they bolt — I am only successful is they told still thinking I don’t see them. Can you really hit someone who is running across your field of view?

    A cop I knew who went through Enlisted Basic Training in the Navy thought he was trained to hit a moving target, but I think it is pretty hard.

    Serpentine! Serpentine!

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Inquiring Mind

    Thanks, great clip. Running away in a serpentine fashion would probably work if you have some distance from the shooter, say 40 feet or so, but at the range this shooting took place I don't think it would.

  67. @Alfa158
    Geography does not exist. If you start walking east from Stockton California, is there a line at which you can scientifically determine that the geography that identifies as the San Joaquin Valley ends, and the geography that thinks it’s the Sierra Nevada mountains begins? No, you can’t.
    The non-hereditarians are welcome to disprove the theories of the “geographists” by putting on t-shirts, shorts and sandals and walking east from Stockton California to Tonopah Nevada in February.

    Replies: @Deckin, @John Johnson

    Geography is indeed a meaningless social creation of Euro-centric culture.

    Who can really say where a point is on a map? Once person’s X is another person’s Y.

    Aboriginals navigated without geography and yet the concept of a map was foreign to them. Our lines and points mean nothing to them.

    I did use a map the other day to find my way home and I guess there is shipping across oceans and stuff but other than that it is meaningless. In fact I don’t think we should talk about it since the discussion itself only furthers the destructive aims of geographists. There was a peer reviewed study in fact that showed how geographists are overwhelmingly White and male.

  68. @Old and Grumpy
    Do they have to disprove it? Seems like the deniers own both the media and education, so just repeat their position til people think its true. Maybe the better question is what is the agenda of the high IQ types here. The smart people seem to be the most destructive of all.

    Replies: @GoRedWings!

    what is the agenda of the high IQ types here

    It’s an anti-egalitarian core issue. As long as you assume everyone is in fact created equal, you think admission rates to elite institutions are racist, sexist etc. Same for every other real-world distribution. To defend meritocracy against affirmative action, an explanation for unequal (i.e. not representative of the general population) outcomes is necessary.

  69. @anon
    @Torn and Frayed

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”.

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true - name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    Replies: @Kratoklastes, @John Johnson, @Torn and Frayed, @Peter Lund

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true – name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    The words combined to convey the equation are socially constructed just like racial taxonomic definitions.

    The equation exists outside of our words and so does race.

    DNA differences exist and while racial terms are not as precise we can still observe patterns and make predictions with them. The egalitarian argument of racial terms being a “social construct” and therefore meaningless is logical fallacy of equivocation.

  70. @jb
    The only reason anybody cares about this "no such thing as race" thing is because they believe it somehow rules out a priori the possibility of genetic differences in racial intelligence. If not for that hope, nobody would think twice about acknowledging race. Yet even clinal variation isn't really enough! As long as you acknowledge genetic variation, clinal or whatever, the possibility of genetic differences in intelligence cannot be ruled out. After all, even if human genetic variation really is clinal, sub-Saharan Africans still manage to have darker skin and curlier hair than most of the rest of humanity, so why couldn't they differ in intelligence as well?

    The answer I believe is that the people most enthusiastic about "no such thing as race" are people who don't understand genetics, and who believe that what "no such thing as race" means is that under the skin -- i.e., aside from a handful of genes that control visible traits that cannot be denied, such as skin color and hair form -- people from different parts of the world are genetically identical. I.e., they believe that "no such thing as race" means there is no genetic variation! This naive "folk" understanding of the genetics is contradicted by every study that has ever been done, and if it were true it would make it impossible for companies like 23andMe to correctly identify the continental ancestry of their clients.

    Nevertheless I believe it's what has been driving the whole thing all along. The idea that we are all identical under the skin is so politically and emotionally powerful that it not only swept through the ranks of those who didn't know enough genetics to know better, but also pulled in many people who should know better, but were open to a narrative that allowed them to believe what they wanted to believe. And because of the dangerous politics, those who actually do know better tend to keep their mouths shut, so there isn't much visible dissent. Unfortunately I don't see this changing any time soon.

    Replies: @NOTA

    This is an argument whose purpose is to reassure people that they don’t have to believe (or think about, or listen to) the nasty people saying things that sound uncomfortably plausible but would be really uncomfortable to believe. The argument doesn’t have to hold together very well, because it’s not about being logically correct, but rather providing an excuse for not believing something they don’t want to believe.

  71. @peterike
    @anon


    The idea that categories have to have a sharp divide and can’t overlap is just bad logic.
     
    It is bad logic, but what it really is, is bad faith. The people making the "you can't draw a line" argument know full well that they are pushing a line of duplicitous baloney. That's the whole purpose of the exercise.

    Way too many people still like to give "scientists" the benefit of the doubt. Scientists are just as political and deceitful as anybody else. More so really, since their livelihoods often depend on it.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    It is bad logic, but what it really is, is bad faith. The people making the “you can’t draw a line” argument know full well that they are pushing a line of duplicitous baloney. That’s the whole purpose of the exercise.

    Correct, they know exactly what they are doing.

    It’s an attempt at avoiding or dropping out of an argument.

    All of a sudden the meaning of words that liberals commonly use are suddenly questioned.

    They will start a debate blaming Whites but if the debate goes to questions about genetics the meaning of Whites is all of a sudden too arbitrary to use.

    Then it turns into a weak “cause science says so” argument. They are basically saying that social scientists have approved this method of avoiding unwanted talks about race.

  72. @Jack D
    @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    Words can lose their original derogatory meaning over time. Eskimo originally meant "eater of raw meat". Such is the case with sheygets. Say you are an American Jew and your son turns out to be a strapping blond haired all-American looking guy who loves to play sports. (After the paternity test comes back), you might brag to your (Jewish) friends, "he looks like a real sheygets". If sheygets still meant "abomination" would you say that?

    Replies: @jsm, @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    Interesting, isn’t it, that a slur word applied to White people has lost its sting (if what you’re saying is true.)

    Whereas, many a word that was originally a neutral way to refer to those of African descent (Negro, colored, even the n-word) have all become shocking insults.

    Funny, that.

  73. Steve used to pair statements of liberal faith, to expose their dishonesty, e.g.:

    There’s no such thing as IQ; and

    Liberals have higher IQs than conservatives.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Nicholas Stix

    There is another example of dishonest liberal faith. It involved liberal apologias for black on white murder, e.g.:

    The Christian-Newsom murders don't rate national coverage because such crimes rarely happen; and

    The Christian-Newsom murders don't rate national coverage as they are the kind of thing that happens all the time.

  74. @TWS
    @Nicholas Stix

    Except Hispanic hills especially undocumented hills, those exist and are best.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    Thanks for the correction; I’d forgotten that.

  75. What really makes people uncomfortable are findings like this:

    “Net of intelligence, black men are significantly more physically attractive than nonblack men…”

    https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Scientific-Fundamentalist-A-Look-at-the-Hard-by-Kanazawa/c9bbe2969eab2037f9d1eb9b86783222fd71743c?p2df

    ^^^ That’s according to Satoshi Kanazawa, a self-described proponent of human biodiversity and hardly someone you could call a “race denier.”

    This is why so many white people, men in particular, can’t let go of the IQ nonsense – because they view black men as their biggest adversaries in the sexual market place, all things being equal. Luckily for whites, black people don’t spend a lot of time thinking about other races, so it’s a mistake to assume that since whites are obsessed with “competing” against blacks that blacks must be the same way. By the end of this century America won’t even have much of a black population, as most of them will have moved to African countries with rapidly developing economies, while the remaining African genes will just get absorbed into the general population. The reason it hurts white people to hear this is because they get aroused by the thought that all black men are lusting after their women, which isn’t really the case.

  76. There’s no clear consensus explanation from the Woke, but you can expect to hear at least one of the following:

    1) the studies showing differences in average IQ are flawed and were probably conducted by racists. In other words, the IQ gap doesn’t actually exist (I know it’s hard for people around here to believe anyone thinks this, but it’s a remarkably widespread viewpoint).

    2) IQ is suspect as a measure of intelligence. Instead, it just measures how similar your way of thinking is to that of the people (read: white men) who invented the test. This doesn’t explain Asian performance, of course.

    3) differences in IQ are attributable to environmental factors like poverty, disease, malnutrition, etc., as well as worse education from early childhood on, too much TV, and not enough books in the home (this one is partially true, of course, and it’s the one you’ll hear from smarter, more old-school leftists, but it’s probably considered offensive by now)

    4) differences in IQ are attributable to systemic racism. This has some overlap with the environmental explanation above, but it also encompasses the Voodoo Theory of systemic racism, in which the racist thoughts of white people travel through the ether and inflict actual, physical damage on Black bodies, thereby “exhausting” them and rendering them incapable of performing as well as they otherwise would on standardized tests.

    The second and third explanations you can engage with. Anybody here know of some good rebuttals to Nassim Taleb’s arguments about IQ having virtually no correlation with earnings, btw?

    • Replies: @res
    @pirelli


    Anybody here know of some good rebuttals to Nassim Taleb’s arguments about IQ having virtually no correlation with earnings, btw?
     
    Other studies are one way to engage with that. Another is to look closely at the earnings measures used. Hint: if welfare is included that tends to weaken the correlation.

    You might want to look for discussions of Taleb and IQ in James Thompson's blog. For example.
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/swanning-about-fooled-by-algebra/?showcomments

    , @Jack D
    @pirelli


    not enough books in the home (this one is partially true, of course,
     
    I can tell you that there were hardly any books in my home. Neither of my parents ever had interest in reading any books, not even Yiddish books, nor did it ever occur to them that they should read to me in any language. No one ever told them that you are supposed to read to children. Until I got to 1st grade, I was completely ignorant of all of the children's books that most American children read or have read to them - Winnie the Pooh and Dr. Seuss and so on. Nor did they speak a word to me in the English language, which they themselves hardly knew ( I learned English from TV and from my sister). However they were loving parents and they always encouraged me to do well in school (although they couldn't really offer me any help with my homework, not that I really needed help).

    However, once I got to school, I learned quickly and my mother was very nice about taking me to the local public library, where there were many books that I could keep in my home (for two weeks). By the time I was in 4th grade I was correcting the spelling mistakes that my teacher sometimes made on the blackboard. She wasn't wild about that.

    Anyway, I can tell you that intelligence has zero to do with how many books are in your house. Nada, zip, not at all. You could fill T'quan's house with books from floor to ceiling and it wouldn't mean shit. Right now there are Asian kids in NYC whose parents are in the same boat that mine were and these kids are headed for Stuyvesant and a Top Ten university even if there's not one damn book in their whole house.
  77. @Torn and Frayed
    @Jack D

    The periodic table is absolutely socially constructed. Yes the discrete elements and exist whether they are known or not to humans. But the minute a human discovers them then this discovery must pass through a social construction and be processed into the table. The elements themselves exist, the intellectual process of organizing them onto a table is a social construction. The number of elements on the table strongly depends on the stage of development and the material conditions of the society. For example in an African society at the stage of development (if we imagine no Islamic or European colonialism) their periodic table of elements would be vastly differently socially constructed than one developed in Europe. And in Europe there is a rich history of societies discovering the various elements over time. And 16 elements were discovered at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab.

    So the elements themselves exist outside of human knowledge. But their discovery and organization onto the periodic table is a social construction. The history of the process of building the periodic table of elements can be studied and deconstructed. In fact there are plenty of alternative periodic tables of elements, each with its advantages and disadvantages. Any of these ways of organizing could have been the preferred social construction of the period table.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_periodic_tables

    Replies: @Jack D

    Yes, the organization of the table is a human construct. If we ever encounter a civilization from another planet, they might have their table organized in a different way (or it might be the same or very similar to Mendeleev’s or one of the alternative layouts – scientific discoveries are often made more than once). But copper will still be copper and nickel will still be nickel anywhere in the universe.

  78. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Kronos

    One obvious conclusion: Don't bring a spray can to a gun fight.

    Replies: @Kronos

    In all fairness he actually did. He brought a Beretta “Boomer” 45.

    It’s certainly not the perpetrator’s gun.

    Thanks /K/!

    https://boards.4channel.org/k/thread/46897591

  79. Bryan and I tried to reply to a similar paper written by Winston, earlier this year, but it was shot down by the editor. Look at the bio of the journal’s editor and tell us if you think we would get a fair hearing:

    “Critique of psychology
    Teo has contributed to critical-theoretical work since his early publications on the history of German Critical Psychology,[1] broadening the concept of critical psychology, integrating various streams of critical thought, including feminism, postcolonialism, social constructionism, political theory, indigenous psychology, and hermeneutics, that were applied to ontological, epistemological, ethical, and more recently aesthetic [2] contexts of psychology. Significant critiques of psychology were investigated in The Critique of Psychology: From Kant to Postcolonial Theory,[3] which was the first book to provide a systematic history of the critique of psychology. As an international leader of critical psychology he edited the Encyclopedia of Critical Psychology.[4] In 2015 he summarized the status of critical psychology in the flagship journal of the APA the American Psychologist.[5]

    Critique of scientific racism and epistemological violence
    An important critical project that Teo pursued was the study of racism and scientific racism, some of which was published in German.[6] He worked on racism and mixed race and in a series of articles advanced the meaning of the concept of epistemological violence in empirical research.[7][8][9][10] Epistemological violence is committed when interpretations of empirical data implicitly or explicitly constitute the Other as inferior or problematic, despite the fact that alternative interpretations, equally viable, based on the same results, are available.”

  80. Assuming that the 100 vs. 85 (normed) white vs. black ((Black!) IQ gap is real, or a proxy for something like “intelligence”, then further questions arise. That need some reflection.

    A. Current theory holds that all modern humans originated in Africa, the southern (largest) portion is populated by black peoples.

    B. There is said to be more genetic variation in the approx. 5000 subtypes of African DNA (black African) than there are in all other types of non black humans.

    C. Modern non black humans are said to have left the northern portion of Africa, after learning to talk somehow, roughly 50,000 years ago. Other humanoids existed at the time who also made the migration outward previously (Neanderthals, Denosivans, etc.) , but none (seemingly) survived intact after modern humans of the current type left Africa. None of these variations of earlier humanoids seemed to have survived contemporaneously in Africa however.

    So, why is there this IQ gap at all?

    –was it a sub-population of black Africans who left were, as a distinct DNA sub-type, smarter than those who stayed? Why?

    –was the experience of populating the rest of the later inhabited planet an IQ boosting event that Africans who stayed didn’t receive? Why? Living too easy in Africa, as opposed to everywhere else?

    — If those who left had modern type speech, then obviously Africans who stayed also (eventually or at roughly the same time) also developed this as well. Did relative speed of modern speaking ability somehow affect IQ results? Africans more slowly, hence lower IQ? Or was that irrelevant? Evidence?

    — Just how varied are the African DNA sub-types correlated to IQ results? Is the 15% gap consistent? If not, what local conditions (other than mixing with non black Africans) account for that?

    — To what degree are diet, geography, weather, resources related to non black IQ increase over time? Or was that 100 IQ group just everyone who chose to leave? Were worldwide global catastrophic events (Ice Age, Supervolcanos, solar radiation) important factors. The Southern Hemisphere appears to largely have escaped any life extinguishing effects from the most recent Ice Age. Black Africans all live/lived in the Southern Hemisphere. No one apparently lived in S. America or even Australia either.

    Okay, this is just a laundry list. Some have researched these issues before IQ research became impossible due to politics. Yet the case for this IQ gap (and gaps between North Asians and North Europeans, for example) would be more persuasive if causal factors were nailed down.

    Yes, these are all averages with upper IQ outliers in all races. It isn’t hard to prove that “race” exists depending on the definition. IQ exists also. But what would lead an entire racial population (or sub populations) end up being higher or lower, given only that it was a mere 50K years out of original Africa by modern (surviving) humans?

    Essays are due in two weeks. Enjoy!

    • Replies: @Chuck
    @Muggles

    Just based on genetic drift alone (including founder effects) you would expect non-African / African differences of around one standard deviation. Consider what geneticists say:

    “[P]henotypic differences among populations are predicted under neutrality to be similar in magnitude to typical genetic differences among populations” (Rosenberg, Edge, Pritchard, & Feldman,2019).

    Then go check out my "racist" math in 'Nature of Race'. You will see something our court scientists won't elucidate: moderate to large differences are the 'evolutionary null' (in this case).

    But, you might ask, why would this null favor non-Africans instead of Africans in this trait? A simple response: the anthropic principle -- : perhaps in an alternative universe (in which it didn't), the enlightenment and science would have been pioneered in Africa and an African Steve Sailer would be lampooning race denialism.

    In short: There is nothing for us that necessitates explaining.

    Rather, trait equality does. For this, you have to posit convergent or stabilizing selection preventing groups from drifting apart in this particular trait and the SNPs underwriting it. Well what was that? (Runaway 'clever sillies' destroying civilizations?) It might be useful to know, especially for those interested in cognitive enhancement.

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @vhrm
    @Muggles


    Yet the case for this IQ gap (and gaps between North Asians and North Europeans, for example) would be more persuasive if causal factors were nailed down.
     
    Persuasive to the populace perhaps, but these things are unlikely to be proven with any confidence.

    Also the gap is empirically observed and measured now. Does it really matter how it developed?
    Danish are taller than Japanese... it might be interesting to know how that happened, but does it really inform policy or ethics to know?

    Replies: @Muggles

  81. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    I'm not a careful student of HBD/IQ issues (viz I don't have a strong science background, and since these appear to be largely scientific questions, I keep my nose out of it). But there's an issue in the dreaded "gap" (which doesn't exist, there is no gap, people just do what they do), which I never see addressed. I've been wondering about this for a while, and maybe it's just been settled and I haven't heard.

    The question is about the testosterone gap and the sexual maturity/development gap. It's folk wisdom that blacks tend to have much more testosterone than other groups (I wouldn't be surprised if black females have more T than Asian males). But there's also the issue of sudden-onset high-T burst at the onset of sexual maturity.

    We all know the anecdotes of little De'Quantious who is such a cute, darling first grader at age six, who has a big smile, does well on tests, gets along with his white classmates and behaves himself in class. Then by age eleven, De'Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can't spell anything right, can't do math, won't behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls. What happened?

    My guess is that at the early onset of puberty, a nuclear-level sudden discharge of testosterone fried all his IQ circuits, sort of like an EMP pulse attack, which gave him a massive physical advantage at the expense of his IQ and situational-awareness development.

    But it's just an inference or a guess. Are there any reliable studies or informed opinions on this?

    Replies: @bomag, @vhrm, @Whataboutery, @Harry Baldwin

    Then by age eleven, De’Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can’t spell anything right, can’t do math, won’t behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls.

    Whether it’s at 11, 12 or 13, doesn’t this describe a lot of guys of all races?

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @vhrm

    Well, sure, except that

    a) Scale matters (1). Lots of boys of all races turn into surly nuisances during puberty, but the consistently, predictably, noticeably higher percentages of blacks is an indicator of something. Whether it really is T or some other cause, I don't know, not a scientist. But I do have two eyes in my head.

    b) Most boys of most races who become a headache during puberty manage to navigate this difficult developmental phase successfully, and then emerge as functional young men. A disturbingly high number of blacks enter one end of this tunnel, and never come out the other side. They remain a perpetually surly, potentially violent, antisocial nuisance for the rest of their lives.

    c). Intensity matters. When I was going through this phase, I dressed like an idjit, listened to loud punk rock, and wrote naughty slogans in masking tape on my bedroom wall. I also got A's in school and had no trouble with the cops. I think all throughout my teenage years I threw exactly one punch in earnest, and that was in self-defense. Our friend De'Q is far more likely to get up to much nastier hijinx.

    ---------------
    (1). The slogan "Scale Matters" should be tattooed on the foreheads of every politician and policy maker. Inability to understand the implications of scale are at the direct heart of all our demographic, economic, immigration, education and societal problems.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @John Johnson
    @vhrm

    Whether it’s at 11, 12 or 13, doesn’t this describe a lot of guys of all races?

    It's a much bigger problem for Blacks and exacerbated by our idiotic egalitarian culture that tries to celebrate anything that comes from the ghetto. Black kids that are frustrated in school are told that if they drop out and go gansta they can get rich.

    Numerous liberal teachers have written about this problem. Black boys do better in school before 12 or 13 and then they are more likely to have behavioral problems.

    Of course said liberals try to do everything to blame Whites and the system but they are desperate to try anything.

    Under Obama they tried tolerating disruptive students and downgrading violations to pad the statistics. Basically the same thing that Democrat cities do with crime.

  82. @Muggles
    Assuming that the 100 vs. 85 (normed) white vs. black ((Black!) IQ gap is real, or a proxy for something like "intelligence", then further questions arise. That need some reflection.

    A. Current theory holds that all modern humans originated in Africa, the southern (largest) portion is populated by black peoples.

    B. There is said to be more genetic variation in the approx. 5000 subtypes of African DNA (black African) than there are in all other types of non black humans.

    C. Modern non black humans are said to have left the northern portion of Africa, after learning to talk somehow, roughly 50,000 years ago. Other humanoids existed at the time who also made the migration outward previously (Neanderthals, Denosivans, etc.) , but none (seemingly) survived intact after modern humans of the current type left Africa. None of these variations of earlier humanoids seemed to have survived contemporaneously in Africa however.

    So, why is there this IQ gap at all?

    --was it a sub-population of black Africans who left were, as a distinct DNA sub-type, smarter than those who stayed? Why?

    --was the experience of populating the rest of the later inhabited planet an IQ boosting event that Africans who stayed didn't receive? Why? Living too easy in Africa, as opposed to everywhere else?

    -- If those who left had modern type speech, then obviously Africans who stayed also (eventually or at roughly the same time) also developed this as well. Did relative speed of modern speaking ability somehow affect IQ results? Africans more slowly, hence lower IQ? Or was that irrelevant? Evidence?

    -- Just how varied are the African DNA sub-types correlated to IQ results? Is the 15% gap consistent? If not, what local conditions (other than mixing with non black Africans) account for that?

    -- To what degree are diet, geography, weather, resources related to non black IQ increase over time? Or was that 100 IQ group just everyone who chose to leave? Were worldwide global catastrophic events (Ice Age, Supervolcanos, solar radiation) important factors. The Southern Hemisphere appears to largely have escaped any life extinguishing effects from the most recent Ice Age. Black Africans all live/lived in the Southern Hemisphere. No one apparently lived in S. America or even Australia either.

    Okay, this is just a laundry list. Some have researched these issues before IQ research became impossible due to politics. Yet the case for this IQ gap (and gaps between North Asians and North Europeans, for example) would be more persuasive if causal factors were nailed down.

    Yes, these are all averages with upper IQ outliers in all races. It isn't hard to prove that "race" exists depending on the definition. IQ exists also. But what would lead an entire racial population (or sub populations) end up being higher or lower, given only that it was a mere 50K years out of original Africa by modern (surviving) humans?

    Essays are due in two weeks. Enjoy!

    Replies: @Chuck, @vhrm

    Just based on genetic drift alone (including founder effects) you would expect non-African / African differences of around one standard deviation. Consider what geneticists say:

    “[P]henotypic differences among populations are predicted under neutrality to be similar in magnitude to typical genetic differences among populations” (Rosenberg, Edge, Pritchard, & Feldman,2019).

    Then go check out my “racist” math in ‘Nature of Race’. You will see something our court scientists won’t elucidate: moderate to large differences are the ‘evolutionary null’ (in this case).

    But, you might ask, why would this null favor non-Africans instead of Africans in this trait? A simple response: the anthropic principle — : perhaps in an alternative universe (in which it didn’t), the enlightenment and science would have been pioneered in Africa and an African Steve Sailer would be lampooning race denialism.

    In short: There is nothing for us that necessitates explaining.

    Rather, trait equality does. For this, you have to posit convergent or stabilizing selection preventing groups from drifting apart in this particular trait and the SNPs underwriting it. Well what was that? (Runaway ‘clever sillies’ destroying civilizations?) It might be useful to know, especially for those interested in cognitive enhancement.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Chuck

    Thanks for your comment/reply.

    However your use of "genetic drift" and "anthropic principle" (a term you need to define for me, pls) seems more like a question begging answer rather than an explanation.

    Yes, drift occurs, but out of the small, even tiny part of African population that successfully left Africa (and survived to today) why did this "drift" in certain sub populations result in the claimed 15% differential from African inhabitants. They didn't leave.

    But with so much genetic variation there, surely subpopulations there would have also drifted and some would have achieved a stable 15% differential too. These diverse populations are also (or were) largely separated from each other, in many cases so far that interbreeding didn't happen.

    Are the Bantus to the Hutus like Han Chinese are to Tibetans, re: IQ? The relative short time of the African population diaspora seems to have resulted in much larger and fairly permanent differentials among them. But not the lengthy ongoing residence of existing Africans in Africa.

    Humans survived/originated in relatively warm Africa but only recently survived elsewhere, after a fairly rapid spread (though not until recently, the Western Hemisphere). Human survival also appeared to persist only in this part of the Southern Hemisphere until fairly recently. Does climate play a larger role than we expect?

    If the answers were easy I guess the question would be trivial.

  83. @Muggles
    Assuming that the 100 vs. 85 (normed) white vs. black ((Black!) IQ gap is real, or a proxy for something like "intelligence", then further questions arise. That need some reflection.

    A. Current theory holds that all modern humans originated in Africa, the southern (largest) portion is populated by black peoples.

    B. There is said to be more genetic variation in the approx. 5000 subtypes of African DNA (black African) than there are in all other types of non black humans.

    C. Modern non black humans are said to have left the northern portion of Africa, after learning to talk somehow, roughly 50,000 years ago. Other humanoids existed at the time who also made the migration outward previously (Neanderthals, Denosivans, etc.) , but none (seemingly) survived intact after modern humans of the current type left Africa. None of these variations of earlier humanoids seemed to have survived contemporaneously in Africa however.

    So, why is there this IQ gap at all?

    --was it a sub-population of black Africans who left were, as a distinct DNA sub-type, smarter than those who stayed? Why?

    --was the experience of populating the rest of the later inhabited planet an IQ boosting event that Africans who stayed didn't receive? Why? Living too easy in Africa, as opposed to everywhere else?

    -- If those who left had modern type speech, then obviously Africans who stayed also (eventually or at roughly the same time) also developed this as well. Did relative speed of modern speaking ability somehow affect IQ results? Africans more slowly, hence lower IQ? Or was that irrelevant? Evidence?

    -- Just how varied are the African DNA sub-types correlated to IQ results? Is the 15% gap consistent? If not, what local conditions (other than mixing with non black Africans) account for that?

    -- To what degree are diet, geography, weather, resources related to non black IQ increase over time? Or was that 100 IQ group just everyone who chose to leave? Were worldwide global catastrophic events (Ice Age, Supervolcanos, solar radiation) important factors. The Southern Hemisphere appears to largely have escaped any life extinguishing effects from the most recent Ice Age. Black Africans all live/lived in the Southern Hemisphere. No one apparently lived in S. America or even Australia either.

    Okay, this is just a laundry list. Some have researched these issues before IQ research became impossible due to politics. Yet the case for this IQ gap (and gaps between North Asians and North Europeans, for example) would be more persuasive if causal factors were nailed down.

    Yes, these are all averages with upper IQ outliers in all races. It isn't hard to prove that "race" exists depending on the definition. IQ exists also. But what would lead an entire racial population (or sub populations) end up being higher or lower, given only that it was a mere 50K years out of original Africa by modern (surviving) humans?

    Essays are due in two weeks. Enjoy!

    Replies: @Chuck, @vhrm

    Yet the case for this IQ gap (and gaps between North Asians and North Europeans, for example) would be more persuasive if causal factors were nailed down.

    Persuasive to the populace perhaps, but these things are unlikely to be proven with any confidence.

    Also the gap is empirically observed and measured now. Does it really matter how it developed?
    Danish are taller than Japanese… it might be interesting to know how that happened, but does it really inform policy or ethics to know?

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @vhrm


    Also the gap is empirically observed and measured now. Does it really matter how it developed?
    Danish are taller than Japanese… it might be interesting to know how that happened, but does it really inform policy or ethics to know?
     
    Yes it really does matter how it developed. Knowing why something exists or happens is key to actual useful knowledge, rather than mere observation.

    Being "smarter" is a big advantage. Being taller too (up to a point). We know a lot more about how populations get taller than others than we do about IQ development.

    CRISPER genetic tinkering is nearly here (or is here, sorta). I think it very important to understand better how IQ differentials naturally developed before we start redesigning ourselves artificially.

    Replies: @Jack D

  84. @vhrm
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Then by age eleven, De’Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can’t spell anything right, can’t do math, won’t behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls.
     
    Whether it's at 11, 12 or 13, doesn't this describe a lot of guys of all races?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @John Johnson

    Well, sure, except that

    a) Scale matters (1). Lots of boys of all races turn into surly nuisances during puberty, but the consistently, predictably, noticeably higher percentages of blacks is an indicator of something. Whether it really is T or some other cause, I don’t know, not a scientist. But I do have two eyes in my head.

    b) Most boys of most races who become a headache during puberty manage to navigate this difficult developmental phase successfully, and then emerge as functional young men. A disturbingly high number of blacks enter one end of this tunnel, and never come out the other side. They remain a perpetually surly, potentially violent, antisocial nuisance for the rest of their lives.

    c). Intensity matters. When I was going through this phase, I dressed like an idjit, listened to loud punk rock, and wrote naughty slogans in masking tape on my bedroom wall. I also got A’s in school and had no trouble with the cops. I think all throughout my teenage years I threw exactly one punch in earnest, and that was in self-defense. Our friend De’Q is far more likely to get up to much nastier hijinx.

    —————
    (1). The slogan “Scale Matters” should be tattooed on the foreheads of every politician and policy maker. Inability to understand the implications of scale are at the direct heart of all our demographic, economic, immigration, education and societal problems.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    They remain a perpetually surly, potentially violent, antisocial nuisance for the rest of their lives.
     
    To some extent, but most of them (the ones that survive and who are not doing life in prison) calm down somewhat as they get older, typically after age 30. We can see this in the criminal record of St. George Floyd. Until his last day (non-violent except to himself) crime spree at age 46, his last major arrest was 13 years before, when he was 33. After 33 his record was pretty clean.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  85. @pirelli
    There’s no clear consensus explanation from the Woke, but you can expect to hear at least one of the following:

    1) the studies showing differences in average IQ are flawed and were probably conducted by racists. In other words, the IQ gap doesn’t actually exist (I know it’s hard for people around here to believe anyone thinks this, but it’s a remarkably widespread viewpoint).

    2) IQ is suspect as a measure of intelligence. Instead, it just measures how similar your way of thinking is to that of the people (read: white men) who invented the test. This doesn’t explain Asian performance, of course.

    3) differences in IQ are attributable to environmental factors like poverty, disease, malnutrition, etc., as well as worse education from early childhood on, too much TV, and not enough books in the home (this one is partially true, of course, and it’s the one you’ll hear from smarter, more old-school leftists, but it’s probably considered offensive by now)

    4) differences in IQ are attributable to systemic racism. This has some overlap with the environmental explanation above, but it also encompasses the Voodoo Theory of systemic racism, in which the racist thoughts of white people travel through the ether and inflict actual, physical damage on Black bodies, thereby “exhausting” them and rendering them incapable of performing as well as they otherwise would on standardized tests.

    The second and third explanations you can engage with. Anybody here know of some good rebuttals to Nassim Taleb’s arguments about IQ having virtually no correlation with earnings, btw?

    Replies: @res, @Jack D

    Anybody here know of some good rebuttals to Nassim Taleb’s arguments about IQ having virtually no correlation with earnings, btw?

    Other studies are one way to engage with that. Another is to look closely at the earnings measures used. Hint: if welfare is included that tends to weaken the correlation.

    You might want to look for discussions of Taleb and IQ in James Thompson’s blog. For example.
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/swanning-about-fooled-by-algebra/?showcomments

  86. @pirelli
    There’s no clear consensus explanation from the Woke, but you can expect to hear at least one of the following:

    1) the studies showing differences in average IQ are flawed and were probably conducted by racists. In other words, the IQ gap doesn’t actually exist (I know it’s hard for people around here to believe anyone thinks this, but it’s a remarkably widespread viewpoint).

    2) IQ is suspect as a measure of intelligence. Instead, it just measures how similar your way of thinking is to that of the people (read: white men) who invented the test. This doesn’t explain Asian performance, of course.

    3) differences in IQ are attributable to environmental factors like poverty, disease, malnutrition, etc., as well as worse education from early childhood on, too much TV, and not enough books in the home (this one is partially true, of course, and it’s the one you’ll hear from smarter, more old-school leftists, but it’s probably considered offensive by now)

    4) differences in IQ are attributable to systemic racism. This has some overlap with the environmental explanation above, but it also encompasses the Voodoo Theory of systemic racism, in which the racist thoughts of white people travel through the ether and inflict actual, physical damage on Black bodies, thereby “exhausting” them and rendering them incapable of performing as well as they otherwise would on standardized tests.

    The second and third explanations you can engage with. Anybody here know of some good rebuttals to Nassim Taleb’s arguments about IQ having virtually no correlation with earnings, btw?

    Replies: @res, @Jack D

    not enough books in the home (this one is partially true, of course,

    I can tell you that there were hardly any books in my home. Neither of my parents ever had interest in reading any books, not even Yiddish books, nor did it ever occur to them that they should read to me in any language. No one ever told them that you are supposed to read to children. Until I got to 1st grade, I was completely ignorant of all of the children’s books that most American children read or have read to them – Winnie the Pooh and Dr. Seuss and so on. Nor did they speak a word to me in the English language, which they themselves hardly knew ( I learned English from TV and from my sister). However they were loving parents and they always encouraged me to do well in school (although they couldn’t really offer me any help with my homework, not that I really needed help).

    However, once I got to school, I learned quickly and my mother was very nice about taking me to the local public library, where there were many books that I could keep in my home (for two weeks). By the time I was in 4th grade I was correcting the spelling mistakes that my teacher sometimes made on the blackboard. She wasn’t wild about that.

    Anyway, I can tell you that intelligence has zero to do with how many books are in your house. Nada, zip, not at all. You could fill T’quan’s house with books from floor to ceiling and it wouldn’t mean shit. Right now there are Asian kids in NYC whose parents are in the same boat that mine were and these kids are headed for Stuyvesant and a Top Ten university even if there’s not one damn book in their whole house.

    • Agree: vhrm
  87. @The Alarmist
    Moderately O/T

    Woke warriors outraged over Gal Gadot being cast as Cleopatra because she is not black - are ridiculed for not knowing the Egyptian Queen was GREEK

    'People are upset because Gal Gadot, who isn't black, is playing Cleopatra, who wasn't black either,' Journalist Ian Miles Cheong quipped.

     

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/10/12/04/34275718-8829671-image-a-19_1602472016703.jpg

    Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8829671/Social-media-mocks-uneducated-outrage-Israeli-Gal-Gadot-cast-Cleopatra.html

    Replies: @Tusk

    Gadot isn’t Greek and her larping (wonder woman) needs to stop.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Tusk

    Only Greek actresses can play Greek characters? I'd almost take that deal if they would promise to stop putting black people in Shakespeare plays.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @AnotherDad

  88. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @vhrm

    Well, sure, except that

    a) Scale matters (1). Lots of boys of all races turn into surly nuisances during puberty, but the consistently, predictably, noticeably higher percentages of blacks is an indicator of something. Whether it really is T or some other cause, I don't know, not a scientist. But I do have two eyes in my head.

    b) Most boys of most races who become a headache during puberty manage to navigate this difficult developmental phase successfully, and then emerge as functional young men. A disturbingly high number of blacks enter one end of this tunnel, and never come out the other side. They remain a perpetually surly, potentially violent, antisocial nuisance for the rest of their lives.

    c). Intensity matters. When I was going through this phase, I dressed like an idjit, listened to loud punk rock, and wrote naughty slogans in masking tape on my bedroom wall. I also got A's in school and had no trouble with the cops. I think all throughout my teenage years I threw exactly one punch in earnest, and that was in self-defense. Our friend De'Q is far more likely to get up to much nastier hijinx.

    ---------------
    (1). The slogan "Scale Matters" should be tattooed on the foreheads of every politician and policy maker. Inability to understand the implications of scale are at the direct heart of all our demographic, economic, immigration, education and societal problems.

    Replies: @Jack D

    They remain a perpetually surly, potentially violent, antisocial nuisance for the rest of their lives.

    To some extent, but most of them (the ones that survive and who are not doing life in prison) calm down somewhat as they get older, typically after age 30. We can see this in the criminal record of St. George Floyd. Until his last day (non-violent except to himself) crime spree at age 46, his last major arrest was 13 years before, when he was 33. After 33 his record was pretty clean.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    Maybe so, but think of the development loss and lag in the interim.

    A thought experiment: all boys of all races mysteriously go into a coma at the onset of puberty. White, Jewish and Asian boys typically emerge from the coma around age 18 and then get on with their lives. Many or most blacks do not emerge from the coma until age 33. Think of how much they've missed out in terms of learning, career, and personal development. That is a lot of catching up to do.

    In real life of course, it amounts to a lot of un-doing to do: in those prime important years, De'Q was not building a resume, courting a sweetheart, or learning life lessons, he was getting a police record, developing a drug habit and a terrible credit score, as well as being a tremendous nuisance to the rest of us.

  89. @Anonymous
    @RichardTaylor

    I had wondered why Jews, like Boaz for instance take an interest in sociology and (cultural) anthropology. As a major, these are not very financially rewarding unless you are at the top of the heap as a professor.

    Then it occurred to me that if the objective of your tribe is to exploit, influence, and control the various ethnicities and races making up the globe, then first you must understand them. Think of it as reverse engineering. What makes them tick? How can they be manipulated? What are their strengths and weaknesses? Either you perform these studies by yourself or better yet, you tap into the university system and its existing body of work in sociology and anthropology, subverting it as you go. It's kind of like the R&D arm of a company. No, it doesn't make profit by itself, it enables profit.

    Replies: @Jay Fink

    My brother majored in Sociology and is now high up in a government agency making good money.

  90. @Jack D
    @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    Words can lose their original derogatory meaning over time. Eskimo originally meant "eater of raw meat". Such is the case with sheygets. Say you are an American Jew and your son turns out to be a strapping blond haired all-American looking guy who loves to play sports. (After the paternity test comes back), you might brag to your (Jewish) friends, "he looks like a real sheygets". If sheygets still meant "abomination" would you say that?

    Replies: @jsm, @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder

    Do you mean like Woody Allen and Ronan Farrow? No personal experience with the phenomenon you describe but knowing jews it’s no stretch to imagine that such a father would readily disparage the progeny of his shiksa wife and her tennis coach.

  91. @Jack D
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    They remain a perpetually surly, potentially violent, antisocial nuisance for the rest of their lives.
     
    To some extent, but most of them (the ones that survive and who are not doing life in prison) calm down somewhat as they get older, typically after age 30. We can see this in the criminal record of St. George Floyd. Until his last day (non-violent except to himself) crime spree at age 46, his last major arrest was 13 years before, when he was 33. After 33 his record was pretty clean.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Maybe so, but think of the development loss and lag in the interim.

    A thought experiment: all boys of all races mysteriously go into a coma at the onset of puberty. White, Jewish and Asian boys typically emerge from the coma around age 18 and then get on with their lives. Many or most blacks do not emerge from the coma until age 33. Think of how much they’ve missed out in terms of learning, career, and personal development. That is a lot of catching up to do.

    In real life of course, it amounts to a lot of un-doing to do: in those prime important years, De’Q was not building a resume, courting a sweetheart, or learning life lessons, he was getting a police record, developing a drug habit and a terrible credit score, as well as being a tremendous nuisance to the rest of us.

  92. @vhrm
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Then by age eleven, De’Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can’t spell anything right, can’t do math, won’t behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls.
     
    Whether it's at 11, 12 or 13, doesn't this describe a lot of guys of all races?

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @John Johnson

    Whether it’s at 11, 12 or 13, doesn’t this describe a lot of guys of all races?

    It’s a much bigger problem for Blacks and exacerbated by our idiotic egalitarian culture that tries to celebrate anything that comes from the ghetto. Black kids that are frustrated in school are told that if they drop out and go gansta they can get rich.

    Numerous liberal teachers have written about this problem. Black boys do better in school before 12 or 13 and then they are more likely to have behavioral problems.

    Of course said liberals try to do everything to blame Whites and the system but they are desperate to try anything.

    Under Obama they tried tolerating disruptive students and downgrading violations to pad the statistics. Basically the same thing that Democrat cities do with crime.

  93. @Altai
    It's inherently stupid. One argument I heard was that it can't be that the average brain size or power differs between populations because humans have evolved to have as large a brain as possible.

    This is insane, the brain is the most metabolically expensive organ. It's size and performance under conditions of natural selection will balance this cost with how intelligent a person needed to be to survive. Before you get into the issue that it's size and shape differs non-trivially between individuals and populations. You might as well scratch your head about why all men in human populations don't average 6 foot 4 since this is the most attractive height and seems to assist both in modern and pre-modern societies with confidence and social advancement. It's metabolically expensive to grow and be tall.

    Of course, you have to ignore the within groups differences that are inherent (That people tend to believe in themselves given their experiences in school) and explain why the average between groups wouldn't potentially be different like it is with lots of other traits.

    You have to have the most facile understand of genetics and traits to have to think you need a load of population specific alleles or STRs to generate average differences or constitute effective different populations, you only need to mess with their frequencies to get that. (How many population specific variants are there between various European ethnicities yet we know what people mean when they say somebody looks 'Dutch' or 'Irish') And you'd also have to commit the cardinal sin of science, you'd have to dismiss the contradiction with observable reality.

    But it's really the appalling vista. Most people who are inclined to question this dogma openly don't really seem to like black people very much and don't have their best interests at heart. And the implication that once you accept this reality that the poor state of black America is immutable or will be used to suggest it is and to pursue policies that take resources away from them is obvious and, perhaps inevitable. (Particularly with mass migration displacing white people and African Americans)

    Even if you were an African American or non-black who felt empathy for their condition who believed it, would you ever support it given the consequences? Is there a way to rhetorically frame this that gets to Steve's ideal of using this information to help everyone?

    Of course this is all an ad for homogeneous societies.

    Replies: @Lurker

    Most people who are inclined to question this dogma openly don’t really seem to like black people very much and don’t have their best interests at heart

    Do black people have the best interests of whites at heart?

  94. @Tusk
    @The Alarmist

    Gadot isn't Greek and her larping (wonder woman) needs to stop.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Only Greek actresses can play Greek characters? I’d almost take that deal if they would promise to stop putting black people in Shakespeare plays.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Jack D

    Exception being Othello?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    Only Greek actresses can play Greek characters? I’d almost take that deal if they would promise to stop putting black people in Shakespeare plays.
     
    Now ... I would take that deal!

    I can live without Alec Guinness as Prince Faisal or Anthony Quinn as Auda Abu Tayi or Omar Sharrif as Yuri Andreyevich Zhivago--however much i enjoyed them back in the day ... if for the rest of time we could be spared having blacks ahistorically jammed in European history and stories. Oh ... here we go another grinning black face popping up in medieval Britain.

    Just because your "civilization" never did anything interesting ... doesn't mean you get ours.
  95. If it’s reparations, just call it that. But it’s framed as addressing the problem.

    Since its clear that TPTB think ‘racism’ is something white people are responsible for – shouldnt all these $billions be used to bribe whitey instead of funding various woke projects?

  96. @anon
    @Torn and Frayed

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”.

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true - name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    Replies: @Kratoklastes, @John Johnson, @Torn and Frayed, @Peter Lund

    Does nature simply reveal itself indiscriminately to any and all men? No, a society must develop a material need for scientific knowledge and then develop an ideological superstructure that allows and aids the construction the necessary intellectual “tools” or a social lens that allows the clear observation of natural laws. This social lens includes rational standards of inquiry, free and open discussion, sharing of ideas and data, a baseline attitude of doubt / skepticism. Most importantly of all, the status quo ideological power structure must allow (or at least tolerate or lack the means to stop) the free pursuit of knowledge. This last condition is not at all the default position in human societies. So it is only through a society’s social lens that our knowledge of nature can be constructed.

    The fact that our knowledge of nature is socially constructed does not mean the knowledge qua knowledge is relative. It means that the different social lenses of various cultures that any knowledge of nature must traverse are relative. Within the dominant Western social infrastructure Newton’s 2nd Law of Motion is indeed replicable all over the globe. But testing this law through the societal lens of peoples and cultures that reject or are ignorant of the dominant Western social infrastructure, including an increasing number of people living in Western societies, could very well result in a determination of falsehood for this law relative to their ideological super structure. So yes, there are likely many cultures on earth where this law is “false”. Declaring this law universal presupposes the ubiquity of the Western social lens. But the Western social lens far from universal and is even under increasing threat within its own culture.

    Scientific skepticism is a necessary part of the Western social lens but it is also a “backdoor” for intellectual authoritarianism to attempt to shatter the Western social lens.

  97. @Jack D
    @Tusk

    Only Greek actresses can play Greek characters? I'd almost take that deal if they would promise to stop putting black people in Shakespeare plays.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @AnotherDad

    Exception being Othello?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @The Alarmist

    No, not really. Othello was a Moor, which is another name for Moroccan or N. African. N. African generals in the Venetian army would not have been sub-Saharan Africans. They would have been darker than Englishmen, that's for sure, but by no means black. N. Africans might have a little sub-Saharan admixture but generally they are no darker than say Puerto Ricans - brown rather than black.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  98. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    I'm not a careful student of HBD/IQ issues (viz I don't have a strong science background, and since these appear to be largely scientific questions, I keep my nose out of it). But there's an issue in the dreaded "gap" (which doesn't exist, there is no gap, people just do what they do), which I never see addressed. I've been wondering about this for a while, and maybe it's just been settled and I haven't heard.

    The question is about the testosterone gap and the sexual maturity/development gap. It's folk wisdom that blacks tend to have much more testosterone than other groups (I wouldn't be surprised if black females have more T than Asian males). But there's also the issue of sudden-onset high-T burst at the onset of sexual maturity.

    We all know the anecdotes of little De'Quantious who is such a cute, darling first grader at age six, who has a big smile, does well on tests, gets along with his white classmates and behaves himself in class. Then by age eleven, De'Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can't spell anything right, can't do math, won't behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls. What happened?

    My guess is that at the early onset of puberty, a nuclear-level sudden discharge of testosterone fried all his IQ circuits, sort of like an EMP pulse attack, which gave him a massive physical advantage at the expense of his IQ and situational-awareness development.

    But it's just an inference or a guess. Are there any reliable studies or informed opinions on this?

    Replies: @bomag, @vhrm, @Whataboutery, @Harry Baldwin

    https://www.columbianeurology.org/neurology/staywell/craniosynostosis

    Cranial sutures closing at puberty.

    Symptoms of increased pressure in the skull include:

    Full or bulging fontanelle (soft spot located on the top of the head)

    Sleepiness (or less alert than usual)

    Scalp veins may be very noticeable

    Increased irritability

    High-pitched cry

    Poor feeding

    Projectile vomiting

    Increasing head circumference

    Seizures

    Bulging eyes and an inability of the child to look upward with the head facing forward

    Developmental delays

  99. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    I'm not a careful student of HBD/IQ issues (viz I don't have a strong science background, and since these appear to be largely scientific questions, I keep my nose out of it). But there's an issue in the dreaded "gap" (which doesn't exist, there is no gap, people just do what they do), which I never see addressed. I've been wondering about this for a while, and maybe it's just been settled and I haven't heard.

    The question is about the testosterone gap and the sexual maturity/development gap. It's folk wisdom that blacks tend to have much more testosterone than other groups (I wouldn't be surprised if black females have more T than Asian males). But there's also the issue of sudden-onset high-T burst at the onset of sexual maturity.

    We all know the anecdotes of little De'Quantious who is such a cute, darling first grader at age six, who has a big smile, does well on tests, gets along with his white classmates and behaves himself in class. Then by age eleven, De'Q has turned into a hulking, surly, growling imbecile who can't spell anything right, can't do math, won't behave, and spends all his time chanting rap lyrics and harassing white girls. What happened?

    My guess is that at the early onset of puberty, a nuclear-level sudden discharge of testosterone fried all his IQ circuits, sort of like an EMP pulse attack, which gave him a massive physical advantage at the expense of his IQ and situational-awareness development.

    But it's just an inference or a guess. Are there any reliable studies or informed opinions on this?

    Replies: @bomag, @vhrm, @Whataboutery, @Harry Baldwin

    Your theory reminds me of the one proposed in the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica:

    The remarks of F. Manetta, made after a long study of the negro in America, may be taken as generally true of the whole race: “the negro children were sharp, intelligent and full of vivacity, but on approaching the adult period a gradual change set in….[T]he arrest or even deterioration in mental development is no doubt very largely due to the fact that after puberty sexual matters take the first place in the negro’s life and thoughts.

  100. I’m always in favor of more information.

    Then you are probably a racist.

    The woke don’t need no stinkin information! They already know the truth.

  101. one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories

    One sure can: https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-admixture-analysis-at-k6.html

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @T.Chris

    Not too precise. Purple is both for Papuans and South Asians.

    How come there is enough purple among Pathans, Iranians & some Jews?

    Anyway- Basques rock.

    Replies: @T.Chris

  102. @anon
    @Torn and Frayed

    All scientific information is “socially constructed”.

    Force = Mass * Acceleration

    Explain how this is socially constructed.

    If it is socially constructed there must be some culture on Earth where it is not true - name that place, and any people in the area. Then we can go test your idea. Later we can laugh out loud!

    Replies: @Kratoklastes, @John Johnson, @Torn and Frayed, @Peter Lund

    Like, do forces even exist, man? Has anybody ever even seen a force?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_mechanics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamiltonian_mechanics

  103. @T.Chris

    one cannot objectively divide a cline into discrete categories
     
    One sure can: https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-admixture-analysis-at-k6.html

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Oa3bBts6e3M/Ur6VH_81tpI/AAAAAAAAAUI/JGoPs1UmWyA/s1600/Lazaridis2014_EDF3_K6.png

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Not too precise. Purple is both for Papuans and South Asians.

    How come there is enough purple among Pathans, Iranians & some Jews?

    Anyway- Basques rock.

    • Replies: @T.Chris
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Purple is Australoid, and South Asians are part Australoid:

    https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2012/12/racial-composition-and-history-of-india.html

  104. @Jack D
    @Tusk

    Only Greek actresses can play Greek characters? I'd almost take that deal if they would promise to stop putting black people in Shakespeare plays.

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @AnotherDad

    Only Greek actresses can play Greek characters? I’d almost take that deal if they would promise to stop putting black people in Shakespeare plays.

    Now … I would take that deal!

    I can live without Alec Guinness as Prince Faisal or Anthony Quinn as Auda Abu Tayi or Omar Sharrif as Yuri Andreyevich Zhivago–however much i enjoyed them back in the day … if for the rest of time we could be spared having blacks ahistorically jammed in European history and stories. Oh … here we go another grinning black face popping up in medieval Britain.

    Just because your “civilization” never did anything interesting … doesn’t mean you get ours.

  105. @The Alarmist
    @Jack D

    Exception being Othello?

    Replies: @Jack D

    No, not really. Othello was a Moor, which is another name for Moroccan or N. African. N. African generals in the Venetian army would not have been sub-Saharan Africans. They would have been darker than Englishmen, that’s for sure, but by no means black. N. Africans might have a little sub-Saharan admixture but generally they are no darker than say Puerto Ricans – brown rather than black.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    Nope, Othello is black, as in Blacketty-black. When Shakespeare calls him a Moor, he means a "blackamoor" -- a Sub-Saharan Bantu. In the play he is called a "thick-lips" and "an old black ram". Not a brown one. By Will's time there were plenty of SSA Bantus in the Maghreb due to the massive Muslim slave trade.

    He even tells the story of his provenance: taken captive in battle with Moslems, whom he hates ("the circumsized dog(s)"), sold into slavery, finds his way to freedom, becomes a mercenary, takes up service in Venice. (viz not in Algiers or Turkey). His large size is remarked upon, and to the Venetians he looks like a "monster." They would never say these things about a Berber. Half the point of the play is Othello's radical Otherness. He's a brutha.

    Replies: @TheLatestInDecay

  106. @Inquiring Mind
    @Anonymous

    Leaving aside the relative merits of the causes, and the relative likelihood of a successful self-defense argument, isn't pepper spraying a guy with gun, or attempting to grab the gun, whether or not he is pointing it at you, really lame?

    Isn't the better strategy to run away in a zig-zag "serpentine" fashion? This is explained to Alan Arkin by Peter Falk in The Inlaws

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+in-laws+peter+falk+run+serpentine&view=detail&mid=0B13624A6E8BD51D69800B13624A6E8BD51D6980&FORM=VIRE

    In hunting small animals, I am not able to hit any of them once they bolt -- I am only successful is they told still thinking I don't see them. Can you really hit someone who is running across your field of view?

    A cop I knew who went through Enlisted Basic Training in the Navy thought he was trained to hit a moving target, but I think it is pretty hard.

    Serpentine! Serpentine!

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Thanks, great clip. Running away in a serpentine fashion would probably work if you have some distance from the shooter, say 40 feet or so, but at the range this shooting took place I don’t think it would.

  107. @Jack D
    @The Alarmist

    No, not really. Othello was a Moor, which is another name for Moroccan or N. African. N. African generals in the Venetian army would not have been sub-Saharan Africans. They would have been darker than Englishmen, that's for sure, but by no means black. N. Africans might have a little sub-Saharan admixture but generally they are no darker than say Puerto Ricans - brown rather than black.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Nope, Othello is black, as in Blacketty-black. When Shakespeare calls him a Moor, he means a “blackamoor” — a Sub-Saharan Bantu. In the play he is called a “thick-lips” and “an old black ram”. Not a brown one. By Will’s time there were plenty of SSA Bantus in the Maghreb due to the massive Muslim slave trade.

    He even tells the story of his provenance: taken captive in battle with Moslems, whom he hates (“the circumsized dog(s)”), sold into slavery, finds his way to freedom, becomes a mercenary, takes up service in Venice. (viz not in Algiers or Turkey). His large size is remarked upon, and to the Venetians he looks like a “monster.” They would never say these things about a Berber. Half the point of the play is Othello’s radical Otherness. He’s a brutha.

    • Replies: @TheLatestInDecay
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Yes, you are clearly right about this but it’s interesting that Coleridge was among those who could find no way to accept what he admits the play is clearly stating: (...”it would be something monstrous to conceive this beautiful Venetian girl falling in love with a veritable negro”...).

    The greatest response to this matter was attributed to “a lady writing from Maryland” by M.R. Ridley in the introduction to his superb, now suppressed, Arden edition of the play: “In studying the play of Othello, I have always imagined its hero a white man. It is true the dramatist paints him black, but this shade does not suit the man. It is a stage decoration, which my taste discards; a fault of colour from an artistic point of view. I have, therefore, as I have before stated in my readings of this play, dispensed with it. Shakespeare was too correct a delineator of human nature to have coloured Othello black, if he had personally acquainted himself with the idiosyncrasies of the African race. We may regard, then, the daub of black upon Othello's portrait as an ebullition of fancy, a freak of imagination,—the visionary con­ception of an ideal figure,—one of the few erroneous strokes of the great master's brush, the single blemish on a faultless work. Othello was a white man."

    I don’t know that much about theater history, but I would be curious to know your thoughts on how the role has been played. Are there any great black Othellos? I saw James Earl Jones in the role (with Christopher Plummer as Iago) back in 1982, and I remember thinking he was very moving in the role but that he played up a kind of weakness in the character, perhaps to an excess. His Othello was totally overmastered by Plummer’s Iago. I did see the Laurence Olivier movie of it and I remember thinking that it seemed pretty silly. Like that lady writing from Maryland, I suppose, I’ve always preferred reading the plays to seeing them performed.

    Replies: @Jack D, @The Germ Theory of Disease

  108. Social scientists never have any trouble telling the difference between blacks and whites when they’re trying to quantify the ostensible effects of discrimination. It’s only when someone posits a different explanation for disparate outcomes do they forget how easily they aggrigated those groups in the first place.

  109. @Chuck
    @Muggles

    Just based on genetic drift alone (including founder effects) you would expect non-African / African differences of around one standard deviation. Consider what geneticists say:

    “[P]henotypic differences among populations are predicted under neutrality to be similar in magnitude to typical genetic differences among populations” (Rosenberg, Edge, Pritchard, & Feldman,2019).

    Then go check out my "racist" math in 'Nature of Race'. You will see something our court scientists won't elucidate: moderate to large differences are the 'evolutionary null' (in this case).

    But, you might ask, why would this null favor non-Africans instead of Africans in this trait? A simple response: the anthropic principle -- : perhaps in an alternative universe (in which it didn't), the enlightenment and science would have been pioneered in Africa and an African Steve Sailer would be lampooning race denialism.

    In short: There is nothing for us that necessitates explaining.

    Rather, trait equality does. For this, you have to posit convergent or stabilizing selection preventing groups from drifting apart in this particular trait and the SNPs underwriting it. Well what was that? (Runaway 'clever sillies' destroying civilizations?) It might be useful to know, especially for those interested in cognitive enhancement.

    Replies: @Muggles

    Thanks for your comment/reply.

    However your use of “genetic drift” and “anthropic principle” (a term you need to define for me, pls) seems more like a question begging answer rather than an explanation.

    Yes, drift occurs, but out of the small, even tiny part of African population that successfully left Africa (and survived to today) why did this “drift” in certain sub populations result in the claimed 15% differential from African inhabitants. They didn’t leave.

    But with so much genetic variation there, surely subpopulations there would have also drifted and some would have achieved a stable 15% differential too. These diverse populations are also (or were) largely separated from each other, in many cases so far that interbreeding didn’t happen.

    Are the Bantus to the Hutus like Han Chinese are to Tibetans, re: IQ? The relative short time of the African population diaspora seems to have resulted in much larger and fairly permanent differentials among them. But not the lengthy ongoing residence of existing Africans in Africa.

    Humans survived/originated in relatively warm Africa but only recently survived elsewhere, after a fairly rapid spread (though not until recently, the Western Hemisphere). Human survival also appeared to persist only in this part of the Southern Hemisphere until fairly recently. Does climate play a larger role than we expect?

    If the answers were easy I guess the question would be trivial.

  110. @vhrm
    @Muggles


    Yet the case for this IQ gap (and gaps between North Asians and North Europeans, for example) would be more persuasive if causal factors were nailed down.
     
    Persuasive to the populace perhaps, but these things are unlikely to be proven with any confidence.

    Also the gap is empirically observed and measured now. Does it really matter how it developed?
    Danish are taller than Japanese... it might be interesting to know how that happened, but does it really inform policy or ethics to know?

    Replies: @Muggles

    Also the gap is empirically observed and measured now. Does it really matter how it developed?
    Danish are taller than Japanese… it might be interesting to know how that happened, but does it really inform policy or ethics to know?

    Yes it really does matter how it developed. Knowing why something exists or happens is key to actual useful knowledge, rather than mere observation.

    Being “smarter” is a big advantage. Being taller too (up to a point). We know a lot more about how populations get taller than others than we do about IQ development.

    CRISPER genetic tinkering is nearly here (or is here, sorta). I think it very important to understand better how IQ differentials naturally developed before we start redesigning ourselves artificially.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Muggles

    The Chinese (and possibly the Russians) might be rash enough to start tinkering with IQ via CRISPR, but most everyone else is going to stay well clear of it for a long time because it is dangerous stuff and not well understood. Maybe they are missing the common denominator that ties it all together but as of now it appears that there is not one IQ gene but many. Nor do we really understand what proteins these genes code for or how they relate to brain functioning. If you tinkered around you'd be stumbling in the dark and God knows what else you would break in the course of trying to "fix" IQ. And once you have broken it, it's not just for the "patient" but for all of his descendants. Very scary stuff.

    What scientist in the West will go after first are single gene mutations such as cystic fibrosis whose mechanism is well understood. Instead of doing a complete re-write on someone's genome, this is more like fixing a single typo - you don't have to worry about messing up the page breaks and line breaks and formatting - you just have to change bok to box in one spot. There is much low hanging fruit that still needs to be picked before we try to venture into the wilderness of mirrors that is our brain.

  111. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    Nope, Othello is black, as in Blacketty-black. When Shakespeare calls him a Moor, he means a "blackamoor" -- a Sub-Saharan Bantu. In the play he is called a "thick-lips" and "an old black ram". Not a brown one. By Will's time there were plenty of SSA Bantus in the Maghreb due to the massive Muslim slave trade.

    He even tells the story of his provenance: taken captive in battle with Moslems, whom he hates ("the circumsized dog(s)"), sold into slavery, finds his way to freedom, becomes a mercenary, takes up service in Venice. (viz not in Algiers or Turkey). His large size is remarked upon, and to the Venetians he looks like a "monster." They would never say these things about a Berber. Half the point of the play is Othello's radical Otherness. He's a brutha.

    Replies: @TheLatestInDecay

    Yes, you are clearly right about this but it’s interesting that Coleridge was among those who could find no way to accept what he admits the play is clearly stating: (…”it would be something monstrous to conceive this beautiful Venetian girl falling in love with a veritable negro”…).

    The greatest response to this matter was attributed to “a lady writing from Maryland” by M.R. Ridley in the introduction to his superb, now suppressed, Arden edition of the play: “In studying the play of Othello, I have always imagined its hero a white man. It is true the dramatist paints him black, but this shade does not suit the man. It is a stage decoration, which my taste discards; a fault of colour from an artistic point of view. I have, therefore, as I have before stated in my readings of this play, dispensed with it. Shakespeare was too correct a delineator of human nature to have coloured Othello black, if he had personally acquainted himself with the idiosyncrasies of the African race. We may regard, then, the daub of black upon Othello’s portrait as an ebullition of fancy, a freak of imagination,—the visionary con­ception of an ideal figure,—one of the few erroneous strokes of the great master’s brush, the single blemish on a faultless work. Othello was a white man.”

    I don’t know that much about theater history, but I would be curious to know your thoughts on how the role has been played. Are there any great black Othellos? I saw James Earl Jones in the role (with Christopher Plummer as Iago) back in 1982, and I remember thinking he was very moving in the role but that he played up a kind of weakness in the character, perhaps to an excess. His Othello was totally overmastered by Plummer’s Iago. I did see the Laurence Olivier movie of it and I remember thinking that it seemed pretty silly. Like that lady writing from Maryland, I suppose, I’ve always preferred reading the plays to seeing them performed.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @TheLatestInDecay

    Shakespeare was writing at a time when there were few if any blacks in England. It's possible that he never met even one or at most met a couple, not enough to form a general opinion about blacks. So he probably made the same mistake that a lot of white people make and assumed that blacks were just white people with darker skin. Obviously he meant Othollo's "blackness" to be metaphorical but also I assume that the character was played in blackface from earliest days.

    Ridley (and the "lady from Maryland" ) were doubtless more acquainted with real live Africans (or at least African Americans) and while nowadays many white ladies love love love blacks in the past it was common to have a low opinion of them, what with the fear of getting raped by them and so on.

    But I don't think we have the right to correct Shakespeare's "mistake" in casting any more than we have the right to "improve" his dialogue.

    I saw the Jones/Plummer production also and I agree with you that Plummer beat Jones. But he beat him on points. It was no knockout. In part it's because Iago is the juicier role and in part because Plummer is the slightly better actor. But Jones was very fine - these were two masters on the stage in top form and I can't think of a better Othello. I consider myself lucky to have seen it.

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @TheLatestInDecay

    Sadly I don't pay much heed to Othello because it's my least favorite of the tragedies. Granted it's well written in a high style, and has lots of great lines and great scenes. But I just don't believe the underlying psychology, the whole thing rings untrue. I don't believe Iago would do what he does, the way he does it, and I don't believe Othello would fall for it. It's the wrong tragic weakness for him. Besides, if Othello is stupid enough to fall for this nonsense, then the play is not really a tragedy, it's just a car crash.

    I always thought that, if you wanted to stage Othello but avoid all the racial land mines, you could adapt it as set in the Mafia with Othello as an Irish foot soldier, like DeNiro in Goodfellas. The travesty of a non-Sicilian, let alone a big hulking red-haired freckly red-faced Mick, secretly married to a Don's daughter, would point up the contrasts without making Tennessee Coates blow his stack.

  112. @Muggles
    @vhrm


    Also the gap is empirically observed and measured now. Does it really matter how it developed?
    Danish are taller than Japanese… it might be interesting to know how that happened, but does it really inform policy or ethics to know?
     
    Yes it really does matter how it developed. Knowing why something exists or happens is key to actual useful knowledge, rather than mere observation.

    Being "smarter" is a big advantage. Being taller too (up to a point). We know a lot more about how populations get taller than others than we do about IQ development.

    CRISPER genetic tinkering is nearly here (or is here, sorta). I think it very important to understand better how IQ differentials naturally developed before we start redesigning ourselves artificially.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The Chinese (and possibly the Russians) might be rash enough to start tinkering with IQ via CRISPR, but most everyone else is going to stay well clear of it for a long time because it is dangerous stuff and not well understood. Maybe they are missing the common denominator that ties it all together but as of now it appears that there is not one IQ gene but many. Nor do we really understand what proteins these genes code for or how they relate to brain functioning. If you tinkered around you’d be stumbling in the dark and God knows what else you would break in the course of trying to “fix” IQ. And once you have broken it, it’s not just for the “patient” but for all of his descendants. Very scary stuff.

    What scientist in the West will go after first are single gene mutations such as cystic fibrosis whose mechanism is well understood. Instead of doing a complete re-write on someone’s genome, this is more like fixing a single typo – you don’t have to worry about messing up the page breaks and line breaks and formatting – you just have to change bok to box in one spot. There is much low hanging fruit that still needs to be picked before we try to venture into the wilderness of mirrors that is our brain.

  113. @TheLatestInDecay
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Yes, you are clearly right about this but it’s interesting that Coleridge was among those who could find no way to accept what he admits the play is clearly stating: (...”it would be something monstrous to conceive this beautiful Venetian girl falling in love with a veritable negro”...).

    The greatest response to this matter was attributed to “a lady writing from Maryland” by M.R. Ridley in the introduction to his superb, now suppressed, Arden edition of the play: “In studying the play of Othello, I have always imagined its hero a white man. It is true the dramatist paints him black, but this shade does not suit the man. It is a stage decoration, which my taste discards; a fault of colour from an artistic point of view. I have, therefore, as I have before stated in my readings of this play, dispensed with it. Shakespeare was too correct a delineator of human nature to have coloured Othello black, if he had personally acquainted himself with the idiosyncrasies of the African race. We may regard, then, the daub of black upon Othello's portrait as an ebullition of fancy, a freak of imagination,—the visionary con­ception of an ideal figure,—one of the few erroneous strokes of the great master's brush, the single blemish on a faultless work. Othello was a white man."

    I don’t know that much about theater history, but I would be curious to know your thoughts on how the role has been played. Are there any great black Othellos? I saw James Earl Jones in the role (with Christopher Plummer as Iago) back in 1982, and I remember thinking he was very moving in the role but that he played up a kind of weakness in the character, perhaps to an excess. His Othello was totally overmastered by Plummer’s Iago. I did see the Laurence Olivier movie of it and I remember thinking that it seemed pretty silly. Like that lady writing from Maryland, I suppose, I’ve always preferred reading the plays to seeing them performed.

    Replies: @Jack D, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Shakespeare was writing at a time when there were few if any blacks in England. It’s possible that he never met even one or at most met a couple, not enough to form a general opinion about blacks. So he probably made the same mistake that a lot of white people make and assumed that blacks were just white people with darker skin. Obviously he meant Othollo’s “blackness” to be metaphorical but also I assume that the character was played in blackface from earliest days.

    Ridley (and the “lady from Maryland” ) were doubtless more acquainted with real live Africans (or at least African Americans) and while nowadays many white ladies love love love blacks in the past it was common to have a low opinion of them, what with the fear of getting raped by them and so on.

    But I don’t think we have the right to correct Shakespeare’s “mistake” in casting any more than we have the right to “improve” his dialogue.

    I saw the Jones/Plummer production also and I agree with you that Plummer beat Jones. But he beat him on points. It was no knockout. In part it’s because Iago is the juicier role and in part because Plummer is the slightly better actor. But Jones was very fine – these were two masters on the stage in top form and I can’t think of a better Othello. I consider myself lucky to have seen it.

  114. @TheLatestInDecay
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Yes, you are clearly right about this but it’s interesting that Coleridge was among those who could find no way to accept what he admits the play is clearly stating: (...”it would be something monstrous to conceive this beautiful Venetian girl falling in love with a veritable negro”...).

    The greatest response to this matter was attributed to “a lady writing from Maryland” by M.R. Ridley in the introduction to his superb, now suppressed, Arden edition of the play: “In studying the play of Othello, I have always imagined its hero a white man. It is true the dramatist paints him black, but this shade does not suit the man. It is a stage decoration, which my taste discards; a fault of colour from an artistic point of view. I have, therefore, as I have before stated in my readings of this play, dispensed with it. Shakespeare was too correct a delineator of human nature to have coloured Othello black, if he had personally acquainted himself with the idiosyncrasies of the African race. We may regard, then, the daub of black upon Othello's portrait as an ebullition of fancy, a freak of imagination,—the visionary con­ception of an ideal figure,—one of the few erroneous strokes of the great master's brush, the single blemish on a faultless work. Othello was a white man."

    I don’t know that much about theater history, but I would be curious to know your thoughts on how the role has been played. Are there any great black Othellos? I saw James Earl Jones in the role (with Christopher Plummer as Iago) back in 1982, and I remember thinking he was very moving in the role but that he played up a kind of weakness in the character, perhaps to an excess. His Othello was totally overmastered by Plummer’s Iago. I did see the Laurence Olivier movie of it and I remember thinking that it seemed pretty silly. Like that lady writing from Maryland, I suppose, I’ve always preferred reading the plays to seeing them performed.

    Replies: @Jack D, @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Sadly I don’t pay much heed to Othello because it’s my least favorite of the tragedies. Granted it’s well written in a high style, and has lots of great lines and great scenes. But I just don’t believe the underlying psychology, the whole thing rings untrue. I don’t believe Iago would do what he does, the way he does it, and I don’t believe Othello would fall for it. It’s the wrong tragic weakness for him. Besides, if Othello is stupid enough to fall for this nonsense, then the play is not really a tragedy, it’s just a car crash.

    I always thought that, if you wanted to stage Othello but avoid all the racial land mines, you could adapt it as set in the Mafia with Othello as an Irish foot soldier, like DeNiro in Goodfellas. The travesty of a non-Sicilian, let alone a big hulking red-haired freckly red-faced Mick, secretly married to a Don’s daughter, would point up the contrasts without making Tennessee Coates blow his stack.

  115. Well, if “Race-Does-Not-Existism” happen to be correct, then there is no White-Black IQ Gap. Case closed and everybody will be as pleased as Kamala Harris…

    Cool, so all you are left with then must be a bunch of darker and statistically more stupid people, and their corresponding crime rates being no more than an “optical illusion”.

    Right, until that “optical illusion” displays the usual lack of impulse control and loots your store and burns down the entire neighbourhood. (A not very high-IQ type of civilized behaviour even in Zimbabwee…)

    But as Martin Luther King said; “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character”.

    Either that, or they shall be judged by the content of a looted store after they came looking for Social Justice on the shelves, and then took off with all the goodies…

    So maybe that IQ-gap is real after all, hmm?

  116. @Bardon Kaldian
    @T.Chris

    Not too precise. Purple is both for Papuans and South Asians.

    How come there is enough purple among Pathans, Iranians & some Jews?

    Anyway- Basques rock.

    Replies: @T.Chris

    Purple is Australoid, and South Asians are part Australoid:

    https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2012/12/racial-composition-and-history-of-india.html

  117. @Nicholas Stix
    Steve used to pair statements of liberal faith, to expose their dishonesty, e.g.:

    There's no such thing as IQ; and

    Liberals have higher IQs than conservatives.

    Replies: @David In TN

    There is another example of dishonest liberal faith. It involved liberal apologias for black on white murder, e.g.:

    The Christian-Newsom murders don’t rate national coverage because such crimes rarely happen; and

    The Christian-Newsom murders don’t rate national coverage as they are the kind of thing that happens all the time.

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