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"Hotel Scarface" and the Economics of Immigration
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Respectable economists don’t pay much attention to the subject of immigration, but when they do they bring up a study David Card did long ago that PROVED that immigration doesn’t lower wages. You see, in May 1980 there was a sudden influx of Cuban refugees into Miami in the Mariel Boatlift. Professor Card compared what happened to wages in Miami from 1980 to 1984 to wages over the same period in four other American cities whose economic trajectories had been similar to Miami’s before 1980. He didn’t see much difference between wages in Miami in 1980-84 and the other cities, so assuming ceteris paribus, therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

But as I’ve been pointing out for many years, Miami from 1980 to 1984 was famously unlike its own past or any city this side of the Medellin Peninsula. Something was going on that was injecting vast amounts of money into the Miami economy in the early 1980s. This is not a particularly obscure bit of trivia in economic history, either. For example, from the New York Times today:

Miami During the Cocaine Boom
By JOHN WILLIAMS NOV. 5, 2017

For anyone who lived through the 1980s, the television series “Miami Vice” is the pastel-shaded, music-driven, drug-saturated image of the city forever seared into memory. At the center of this action in real life was the Mutiny at Sailboat Bay, a hotel and club in the city’s Coconut Grove neighborhood. Roben Farzad, whose family immigrated to the United States from Iran after he was born, grew up in Miami during those years. His new book, “Hotel Scarface,” is a raucous history of the cocaine boom as it played out at the Mutiny. …

“It turned into cocaine madness. The Colombians came back to reassert themselves, when Castro sent refugees. It started to become downright murderous. Miami was ill-equipped to handle that inundation of both petty thieves and assassins, people for hire. All of that combusted and mixed in the Mutiny club. It was almost like their dystopian Statue of Liberty in Miami.”

 
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  1. Roben Farzad? Roben doesn’t sound like an Islamo/Persian name. And Roben attended Princeton and Harvard. Roben Farzad is most likely Jewish Iranian, not that that should mean much in telling a story, but, as we know, it does.

    Generally, Jews have made themselves entirely untrustworthy when commenting on any aspect of immigration: whether it’s good/bad, exciting/dull, dangerous/nothing to get worked up about, etc.

  2. therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don’t have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    • Replies: @Buck
    @Classical Liberal

    I worked as both a dishwasher and prep cook full time while getting my undergrad degree. Sure it didn't pay much, but in a college town not much did. College towns are a great example of huge surplus of low skilled labor keeping wages low.

    What about Japan's restaurant scene? No real immigration and high wage economy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Classical Liberal

    , @27 year old
    @Classical Liberal

    Shut up nerd

    , @Alfa158
    @Classical Liberal

    I have to admit that you are probably right about that. The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.

    Replies: @Classical Liberal, @Thomm, @helena

    , @Anonymous
    @Classical Liberal

    A few marginal chain burger joints would close and a few less patels would buy beat up old roachy chain motels and they will be bulldozed. But the benefits to society so outweigh that that no one with any sense cares. For every marginal burger joint or motel Americans as taxpayers pay millions in costs and have more and more permanent Democrats thrown into our midst.


    Indeed, we should be thinking up ways to make businesses that tend to drive immigration less attractive. Chinese restaurants, for example.

    Replies: @Pericles

    , @Daniel H
    @Classical Liberal

    >>Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen?

    I don't mind such work. I've done it before and am doing it now.

    , @Pericles
    @Classical Liberal

    As an eminent Frenchman of the Enlightenment might have put it, men will never be free until the last classic liberal is strangled with the entrails of the last migrant.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    , @Randal
    @Classical Liberal


    Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen?
     
    Are any of you globalists really so stupid as to believe that people won't be found to do any job, if the wages are high enough?

    And are you really so stupid as to believe that importing division in the form of large amounts of culturally and racially distinct labour just as automation promises to remove large swathes of the employment they are coming for is a good idea?

    It wouldn't be a problem, if only it were just you globalists who will pay the blood price to c0me, but sadly it's the innocents who will suffer the most, and many of you guilty men will blithely evade the consequences as usual.

    If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit.
     
    A far as domestic service industries are concerned, they depend upon a healthy, high wage and high employment situation for their existence anyway.

    It's pretty straightforward in the end: a situation in which labour is scarce, wages high and jobs easy to come by is good for the masses and bad for greedy elites, whereas a situation in which labour is easily undercut by cheap immigrants, jobs are precarious and scarce, and wages are low is great for greedy corporates, for wealthy elites, and for state apparatchiks and academics with cosy sinecures.

    You've made your own loyalties clear, at least.

    Replies: @Clyde

    , @Nico
    @Classical Liberal


    If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business.
     
    Large numbers of those hotels and restaurants need to go out of business as they are cheap, gaudy and far-flung and cater to the worst, lowest-common-denominator ersatz bourgeois taste, a blight on the country's cultural and environmental landscape and providing no real economic value except outlets for needs that would not be there if it were safer and more affordable for actual Americans to live decently in the denser and longer-settled areas once more.
    , @unpc downunder
    @Classical Liberal

    As long as there are enough workers to do the essential stuff like maintain roads, fix drains and repair vehicles (still very much white dominated jobs) it doesn't matter if there is a shortage of non-essential hospitality workers.

    , @MBlanc46
    @Classical Liberal

    One of my younger half-brothers worked as a cook in a diner for years. Another of them worked as an itinerant fruit-picker. An uncle was a roofer. All native-born Americans. All doing jobs that Americans won’t do.

    , @Mefobills
    @Classical Liberal

    If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profitt

    LoL. Then how does China do it? The only immigration they allow is for things that Chinese cannot do themselves. For example, teaching English.

    Things like sweeping floors and cleaning restrooms, and working as a Cook, are done by Chinese themselves.

    How about Japan? They manage with native workers.

  3. Economist George Borjas published a paper and a series of blog posts arguing that Card’s study was flawed and the data actually showed a lowering of wages in Miami after the Mariel boatlift.

    https://gborjas.org/category/mariel/

    And a surprisingly balanced article on the debate from the Miami Herald

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article162683083.html

    But neither of them address the interesting point about Miami being a center of the cocaine trade at the time.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Drake

    But neither of them address the interesting point about Miami being a center of the cocaine trade at the time.

    It's not considered appropriate by economists to think about the one thing that every average person knows about Miami in the early 1980s.

    Replies: @Cortes

  4. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    I worked as both a dishwasher and prep cook full time while getting my undergrad degree. Sure it didn’t pay much, but in a college town not much did. College towns are a great example of huge surplus of low skilled labor keeping wages low.

    What about Japan’s restaurant scene? No real immigration and high wage economy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buck

    All other things being equal, you'd think there would be more manufacturing businesses that would want to locate in college towns to take advantage of this. Instead they avoid them like the plague.

    I wonder why.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    , @Classical Liberal
    @Buck

    Japan is a dying society. The economy isn't growing and the national debt is twice GDP. Read Noah Smith:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-03/how-japan-needs-to-change-to-welcome-immigrants

    Replies: @jimmyriddle, @Buck Turgidson, @Chrisnonymous, @jbwilson24

  5. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    Shut up nerd

  6. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    I have to admit that you are probably right about that. The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.

    • Replies: @Classical Liberal
    @Alfa158

    The vast majority of economists disagree with you. Immigrants are what Americans used to be: hardworking and fertile. The white working class needs to be replaced. Read Bryan Caplan.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Desiderius, @Pericles, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    , @Thomm
    @Alfa158


    The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.
     
    You are conflating legal with illegal immigration, and skilled with unskilled. This is a common mistake that WN wiggers make.

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites. White variance is very high, and a WN loser has no more in common with a successful white than a chihuahua has with a German Shepherd.

    If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    , @helena
    @Alfa158

    Gosh I read the other replies, they sound angry. Something else to think about, which I have surmised from the uk situation, economists like to talk in gdp. So UK gdp has gone up but gdp per cap has gone down. That's a net disbenefit [without even accounting for the cost of immigration in terms of health and education services, affirmative services such as translations. One local authority justified spending 15grand on a hologram woman to give directions in the building because the 'diverse community' needs a human face, a signpost is alienating.]

    Back to gdp - a huge chunk of gdp could be removed without changing the nature of indigenous society - every immigrant community has its own economy - specialist food shops, cultural accessories etc. The benefits of that part of gdp goes to the immigrant community. So to sell the idea of immigration to the indigenous population on the basis that it will increase gdp is a deception.

  7. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    A few marginal chain burger joints would close and a few less patels would buy beat up old roachy chain motels and they will be bulldozed. But the benefits to society so outweigh that that no one with any sense cares. For every marginal burger joint or motel Americans as taxpayers pay millions in costs and have more and more permanent Democrats thrown into our midst.

    Indeed, we should be thinking up ways to make businesses that tend to drive immigration less attractive. Chinese restaurants, for example.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Anonymous

    Aren't the roach motels and bodegas (of various ethnicities) and suchlike subsidized by various government programs, loans, tax credits etc. anyway? For a direct example, the Minority Business Development Agency or MBDA.

  8. @Buck
    @Classical Liberal

    I worked as both a dishwasher and prep cook full time while getting my undergrad degree. Sure it didn't pay much, but in a college town not much did. College towns are a great example of huge surplus of low skilled labor keeping wages low.

    What about Japan's restaurant scene? No real immigration and high wage economy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Classical Liberal

    All other things being equal, you’d think there would be more manufacturing businesses that would want to locate in college towns to take advantage of this. Instead they avoid them like the plague.

    I wonder why.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Anonymous

    Simple-- College student populations typically drop by 65-80% for the summer and can't work but so many hours a week while carrying a full time course load the rest of the year. Manufacturing (what's left of it) needs a more anchored and less distracted labor force to reliably staff its production floor.

  9. @Buck
    @Classical Liberal

    I worked as both a dishwasher and prep cook full time while getting my undergrad degree. Sure it didn't pay much, but in a college town not much did. College towns are a great example of huge surplus of low skilled labor keeping wages low.

    What about Japan's restaurant scene? No real immigration and high wage economy.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Classical Liberal

    Japan is a dying society. The economy isn’t growing and the national debt is twice GDP. Read Noah Smith:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-03/how-japan-needs-to-change-to-welcome-immigrants

    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    @Classical Liberal

    Japan has a falling population. So, Japan's *per capita* growth rate hasn't been all that different from the US.

    A lot of the debt is actually held by the public sector too. Net debt is about 140% of gdp. Again, not hugely different to the US.


    And there are advantages to a falling population on a crowded island - their housing costs are declining. Japanese used to live in tiny apartments - that is now changing.

    The main point, of course, is that Japan is Japanese and is going to stay that way.

    It's a damn nice place. You should visit it. Seeing a high trust, low crime, high average IQ, homogenous society in action is quite a revelation.

    , @Buck Turgidson
    @Classical Liberal

    How else could a country possibly thrive economically and technologically without boatloads of illiterate third worlders? I mean, how do you think the us put a man on the moon, and won ww 2? Thank goodness we have hondurans and somalis here and who helped us emerge from our caves.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Classical Liberal

    I don't think you read that article, or you simply have poor comprehension skills. Noah Smith is not arguing for increasing unskilled immigration. In fact, he argues for a shift in Japanese immigration toward skilled labor. And anyhow, the article is about the way Japan is dealing with its immigrants, not a call for a massive increase in immigration.

    While acknowledging that Japan's economy has problems, these have less to do with its declining population than with the rise of China. Just like in the US and Europe, the decision to increase unskilled immigration is accepting long-term impoverishment for growth gains in the short-term.

    , @jbwilson24
    @Classical Liberal

    "Japan is a dying society. The economy isn’t growing and the national debt is twice GDP."

    Ha ha ha, I'm dying myself. Of laughter.

    Have you ever looked at a graph of world population over time? You'll notice it goes massively exponential after the agricultural revolution.

    Japan has > 100m people on an island. And here you are, caterwauling about a decline in population levels after an exponential runup. I'm pretty sure the Japanese have a FAR better chance of their 'society' surviving, compared to the French or Swedes. There are zero parts of Japan that are off limits to police and firefighters.

  10. @Alfa158
    @Classical Liberal

    I have to admit that you are probably right about that. The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.

    Replies: @Classical Liberal, @Thomm, @helena

    The vast majority of economists disagree with you. Immigrants are what Americans used to be: hardworking and fertile. The white working class needs to be replaced. Read Bryan Caplan.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    @Classical Liberal

    >>Read Bryan Caplan.

    OK, now I get it. You've really gone into troll zone. We've had our laughs, now move on.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    , @Desiderius
    @Classical Liberal


    Read Bryan Caplan.
     
    Hold on, still working on Leonard Pitts.
    , @Pericles
    @Classical Liberal

    Bam! Case closed.

    For extra credit, see if you can get close enough to knock on the door of his bubble.

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/03/my_beautiful_bu.html
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2013/04/make_your_own_b.html

    "I'm hardly autarchic." - Bryan Caplan

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Classical Liberal

    Argument from authority is not a strong one in these parts. Economists have some blind spots on this topic, one big one of which is the HBD angle.

    While it's true that a lot of prosperity in human history has been built on various forms of low-wage labor, these have always taken advantage of disparities--between in and out group, between free and slave. The direction the world is moving in is the elimination of these disparities. In a future theoretical world in which development is more evenly distributed, there won't be any more growth blood to be squeezed out of the disparity stone. That means current growth strategies are unsustainable, and people ought to be figuring out other ways to organize the economy. A utilitarian like Bryan Caplan ought to realize that.

    , @MBlanc46
    @Classical Liberal

    Read this! Read that! You sound like old Tarleton in Shaw’s “Misalliance”.

  11. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    >>Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen?

    I don’t mind such work. I’ve done it before and am doing it now.

  12. >>Japan is a dying society. The economy isn’t growing and the national debt is twice GDP. Read Noah Smith:

    Been hearing that line for 30 years now, yet Japan still thrives, and will always thrive.

  13. @Classical Liberal
    @Alfa158

    The vast majority of economists disagree with you. Immigrants are what Americans used to be: hardworking and fertile. The white working class needs to be replaced. Read Bryan Caplan.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Desiderius, @Pericles, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    >>Read Bryan Caplan.

    OK, now I get it. You’ve really gone into troll zone. We’ve had our laughs, now move on.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Daniel H

    The Duck is morphing.

    (And Steve, is there a Medellin Peninsula? Last time I looked it was up in the hills quite a way from any ocean)

    Thomm - "If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda."

    No it wouldn't. It would soon become something reasonably civilised, when the incentives to be otherwise were removed.

  14. @Alfa158
    @Classical Liberal

    I have to admit that you are probably right about that. The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.

    Replies: @Classical Liberal, @Thomm, @helena

    The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.

    You are conflating legal with illegal immigration, and skilled with unskilled. This is a common mistake that WN wiggers make.

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites. White variance is very high, and a WN loser has no more in common with a successful white than a chihuahua has with a German Shepherd.

    If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.

    • Troll: ussr andy
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Thomm

    "If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country"

    Are WNs also wiggers?

    It's a fun thought experiment, IMHO the males would soon be farming (or starving) and building, and the females would miraculously slim down (where's the food?), lose the attitude (no office jobs, no TV) and be competing for any male with a weatherproof hut/house and reliable food supply.

    Replies: @Thomm

    , @Pericles
    @Thomm

    A white supremacist who is not a white nationalist. Intriguing. Is this like the New York Jews who abhor Zionism?

    , @AndrewR
    @Thomm

    Oh boy, it's the dude who was cucked by a WN.

    Protip: "WN wigger" is an oxymoron almost by definition. WNs do not tend to hold wiggers in high regard, even though they do generally come from the same general backgrounds.

    Replies: @Thomm

    , @Anon
    @Thomm

    Sort of how when the British dumped off all their convicts and trouble makers in Australia, it immediately became a failed state worse than Rawanda, right?

    How about you go live in Zimbabwe and I'll buy a house on Bondi Beach. We should have roughly equal experiences, right?

    Look up 'regression to the mean' after those workmen show up with the crane to pull your head out of your ass.

    Replies: @Thomm, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Thomm


    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites.
     
    They sure don't speak up for the less-successful ones, do they?

    I mean, even Mexico has standards below which they won't go. Not you.
  15. @Classical Liberal
    @Buck

    Japan is a dying society. The economy isn't growing and the national debt is twice GDP. Read Noah Smith:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-03/how-japan-needs-to-change-to-welcome-immigrants

    Replies: @jimmyriddle, @Buck Turgidson, @Chrisnonymous, @jbwilson24

    Japan has a falling population. So, Japan’s *per capita* growth rate hasn’t been all that different from the US.

    A lot of the debt is actually held by the public sector too. Net debt is about 140% of gdp. Again, not hugely different to the US.

    And there are advantages to a falling population on a crowded island – their housing costs are declining. Japanese used to live in tiny apartments – that is now changing.

    The main point, of course, is that Japan is Japanese and is going to stay that way.

    It’s a damn nice place. You should visit it. Seeing a high trust, low crime, high average IQ, homogenous society in action is quite a revelation.

  16. Anonymous [AKA "Daniel Ryan"] says:

    The excellent documentary Cocaine Cowboys makes a similar point re: Miami. The protagonist, one of the first Americans to work with Escobar, says that when he came to Miami in the 50s/60s it was a small, sleepy beach town, basically a retirement community that felt more like Alabama than LA. By the 90s it had transformed into a major metropolis with skyscrapers, mansions, Lamborghini dealerships etc? Where did all the money come from? Where was all the industry? Cocaine built the whole city, at least according to him.

  17. New York Times:

    For anyone who lived through the 1980s, the television series “Miami Vice” is the pastel-shaded, music-driven, drug-saturated image of the city forever seared into memory.

    One thing that comes through about book author Farzad, which I can identify with, is his sentimentality and appreciation of both place and era. Perhaps he was extra susceptible to youthful imprinting, but if one is going to marinate in nostalgia, coke boom (and later) Miami ain’t a bad place to have in one’s mindspace. Michael Mann’s Miami Vice really recognized something special about the place, amping up both the garish and sublime.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That stakeout video you posted got me going. I forgot what great music was on that show. I have just added 20 Miami Vice tracks to my MP3 player I use for exercise and walks. THANKS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6kPKMKQAco (a remix)

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  18. @Classical Liberal
    @Alfa158

    The vast majority of economists disagree with you. Immigrants are what Americans used to be: hardworking and fertile. The white working class needs to be replaced. Read Bryan Caplan.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Desiderius, @Pericles, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    Read Bryan Caplan.

    Hold on, still working on Leonard Pitts.

  19. Medellin Peninsula.

    I don’t know where this is; Google hasn’t heard of it.

    But it must be pretty far from the Colombian city of Medellin which is 100 miles inland up in the mountains of mainland South America.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @(((Owen)))

    Wasn't there some peninsula in Columbia?

    Replies: @EdwardM, @kaganovitch

  20. Michael Mann’s Miami Vice really recognized something special about the place, amping up both the garish and sublime.

    Didn’t Brian De Palma get there first, in 1983, a year before Miami Vice, with Scarface?

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @PiltdownMan


    Didn’t Brian De Palma get there first, in 1983, a year before Miami Vice, with Scarface?
     
    True, but Scarface is all garish excess, nothing sublime. That is not to say it isn’t a great movie, it’s a classic. But Miami Vice had a different, sophisticated vibe that broadly reintroduced the city to the world and helped define a certain national ’80s slick aesthetic, unlike De Palma’s baroque character study of King Midas insanity.

    The Miami Vice soundtracks (pop songs and score), for instance, hooked into all sorts of moods befitting events and characters that no other show (IMO) has come close to doing, and in a brand new way. Part of that is because the Eighties had some amazing, inventive artists to feature, mainstream and otherwise. Some of it was schlock, but much of it was great—here’s my past comment (#208) on Mann’s use of Shriekback in Miami Vice and Manhunter.

    Combine that with a solid cast with both relatable and mysterious characters, truly great photography, a bunch of well written episodes (actually filmed in Miami, unlike most of Scarface), and you get something that reflects (and re-invents) a place far more powerfully than De Palma’s film.

    To be fair, Miami Vice was a show with multiple seasons to broadly showcase both true-to-life and more sensational stories of Miami, large and small, which was beyond the scope of Scarface. Miami itself is a major character in Miami Vice, while Miami in Scarface is more of an interesting (yet fitting) backdrop for Al Pacino to do his thing.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @PiltdownMan

  21. Crops rotting in the fields

    https://www.ft.com/content/13e183ee-c099-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464

    Scheherazade Daneshkhu (Author) real Anglo-Saxon there

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Maj. Kong


    Crops rotting in the fields
     
    Same people wrecking the UK as wrecked California.

    1) low productivity work is low paid - importing people to do those jobs if there's not enough local volunteers automatically lowers average productivity and average productivity is the foundation of prosperity. the solution to low productivity work that doesn't pay well enough to attract workers is upgrading the technology involved -> leading fewer but better paid workers -> increase in average productivity -> increased prosperity.

    2) doing (1) even once is stupid but what actually happens is the slave labor imported to do this work quits after a few years and heads off the the nearest city to find better work (or welfare) thus needing a continuing resupply of crop pickers *and* a massive over supply of unskilled labor throughout the economy eventually leading to California going form near the top to near the bottom of the high school leagues.

    The "crops rotting" meme is pure poison and the people spreading it: Economist, FT etc are poisoners.

    The *only* good solution is technology/innovation e.g.

    https://techcrunch.com/2014/12/23/at-california-olive-ranch-technology-takes-root/
  22. @Daniel H
    @Classical Liberal

    >>Read Bryan Caplan.

    OK, now I get it. You've really gone into troll zone. We've had our laughs, now move on.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    The Duck is morphing.

    (And Steve, is there a Medellin Peninsula? Last time I looked it was up in the hills quite a way from any ocean)

    Thomm – “If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.”

    No it wouldn’t. It would soon become something reasonably civilised, when the incentives to be otherwise were removed.

  23. @Thomm
    @Alfa158


    The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.
     
    You are conflating legal with illegal immigration, and skilled with unskilled. This is a common mistake that WN wiggers make.

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites. White variance is very high, and a WN loser has no more in common with a successful white than a chihuahua has with a German Shepherd.

    If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    “If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country”

    Are WNs also wiggers?

    It’s a fun thought experiment, IMHO the males would soon be farming (or starving) and building, and the females would miraculously slim down (where’s the food?), lose the attitude (no office jobs, no TV) and be competing for any male with a weatherproof hut/house and reliable food supply.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @YetAnotherAnon


    Are WNs also wiggers?
     
    Yes, they are.

    They see race in everything.
    They are uproductive and victimhood-seeking.
    They produce nothing.
    They have no scientific or mathematical aptitude.
    They have a preference for obese women.

    WNs = wiggers.
  24. @(((Owen)))

    Medellin Peninsula.
     
    I don't know where this is; Google hasn't heard of it.

    But it must be pretty far from the Colombian city of Medellin which is 100 miles inland up in the mountains of mainland South America.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Wasn’t there some peninsula in Columbia?

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    @Steve Sailer

    Not really. Panama was part of Colombia until it started the Canal at the beginning of the 20th century, so maybe that's what you're thinking of. There is now a small rump abutting Panama that I suppose you could call a peninsula.

    , @kaganovitch
    @Steve Sailer

    The Guajira Peninsula is in the North of Colombia

  25. @PiltdownMan

    Michael Mann’s Miami Vice really recognized something special about the place, amping up both the garish and sublime.
     
    Didn't Brian De Palma get there first, in 1983, a year before Miami Vice, with Scarface?

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Didn’t Brian De Palma get there first, in 1983, a year before Miami Vice, with Scarface?

    True, but Scarface is all garish excess, nothing sublime. That is not to say it isn’t a great movie, it’s a classic. But Miami Vice had a different, sophisticated vibe that broadly reintroduced the city to the world and helped define a certain national ’80s slick aesthetic, unlike De Palma’s baroque character study of King Midas insanity.

    The Miami Vice soundtracks (pop songs and score), for instance, hooked into all sorts of moods befitting events and characters that no other show (IMO) has come close to doing, and in a brand new way. Part of that is because the Eighties had some amazing, inventive artists to feature, mainstream and otherwise. Some of it was schlock, but much of it was great—here’s my past comment (#208) on Mann’s use of Shriekback in Miami Vice and Manhunter.

    Combine that with a solid cast with both relatable and mysterious characters, truly great photography, a bunch of well written episodes (actually filmed in Miami, unlike most of Scarface), and you get something that reflects (and re-invents) a place far more powerfully than De Palma’s film.

    To be fair, Miami Vice was a show with multiple seasons to broadly showcase both true-to-life and more sensational stories of Miami, large and small, which was beyond the scope of Scarface. Miami itself is a major character in Miami Vice, while Miami in Scarface is more of an interesting (yet fitting) backdrop for Al Pacino to do his thing.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Scarface has a strong script by Oliver Stone and lead performances by Pacino and a young Michelle Pfeiffer. De Palma's direction wasn't as impressive as his previous work and contributed to the middling reviews it received. I can remember being surprised, after having read the meh reviews, by what a powerful movie it was. I can remember thinking to myself with surprise about 45 minutes in when first seeing it on Westwood Blvd. in late 1983: "This is a freight train of a movie."

    De Palma's music video scenes in Scarface weren't especially good and the art direction was decent but not exceptional. In general, De Palma didn't really have a visual style that was distinctive for Scarface.

    So Michael Mann comes along in the fall of 1984 on TV with Miami Vice and brings some of the techniques he'd pioneered in Thief in 1981 to TV. He had all sorts of rules, like "No earth tones." It's hard to explain how much better Miami Vice looked than just about anything that had ever been on TV before. But Miami Vice also benefitted from Scarface coming before it.

    Also, TV shows have time to work the kinks out. For example, Miami Vice started out fairly light and comic in tone: Sonny lived on a boat and had a pet alligator. His boss was harassed.

    Then partway through the first season they fired the boss and replaced him with Edward James Olmos and went super serious. The best shows became about the guilt the cops felts about talking minor crooks into wearing a wire and then their informants getting killed.

    On the other hand, the typical budget per hour was perhaps an order of magnitude lower than in the movies, so buy the second season when it was a sensation I started to notice that it didn't compare to the best movies.

    But the writing continued to improve maybe into the third season. The last two years were lower in quality, but for about 2.5 years it was a huge leap forward in television drama quality. On the other hand, it's not clear that anybody is very interested in old TV drama. They still play I Love Lucy on TV, but nobody is interested in late 20th Century dramas. For some reason, they are more disposable than sitcoms.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @anonymous-antimarxist

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I remember being quite excited by Miami Vice and looked forward to it every week not because of the extraordinary visual style which depended on Miami's art deco and pastel colors but because it was the first show on TV that used contemporary music from the music charts. That was one of the things made it really stand out from the other shows on TV.

    Another was the use of contemporary cutting-edge designer couture. I remember that Miami Vice gave Gianni Versace the kind of exposure in America that Paul Schrader's 1980 movie,American Gigolo, gave Giorgio Armani. Each of those brands was little-known before then. But they became huge in the 1980's and after, thanks to the brand-defining exposure.

  26. @Anonymous
    @Classical Liberal

    A few marginal chain burger joints would close and a few less patels would buy beat up old roachy chain motels and they will be bulldozed. But the benefits to society so outweigh that that no one with any sense cares. For every marginal burger joint or motel Americans as taxpayers pay millions in costs and have more and more permanent Democrats thrown into our midst.


    Indeed, we should be thinking up ways to make businesses that tend to drive immigration less attractive. Chinese restaurants, for example.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Aren’t the roach motels and bodegas (of various ethnicities) and suchlike subsidized by various government programs, loans, tax credits etc. anyway? For a direct example, the Minority Business Development Agency or MBDA.

  27. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    As an eminent Frenchman of the Enlightenment might have put it, men will never be free until the last classic liberal is strangled with the entrails of the last migrant.

    • Agree: MBlanc46, Clyde
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    @Pericles

    Where is Diderot when we really need him?

  28. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @PiltdownMan


    Didn’t Brian De Palma get there first, in 1983, a year before Miami Vice, with Scarface?
     
    True, but Scarface is all garish excess, nothing sublime. That is not to say it isn’t a great movie, it’s a classic. But Miami Vice had a different, sophisticated vibe that broadly reintroduced the city to the world and helped define a certain national ’80s slick aesthetic, unlike De Palma’s baroque character study of King Midas insanity.

    The Miami Vice soundtracks (pop songs and score), for instance, hooked into all sorts of moods befitting events and characters that no other show (IMO) has come close to doing, and in a brand new way. Part of that is because the Eighties had some amazing, inventive artists to feature, mainstream and otherwise. Some of it was schlock, but much of it was great—here’s my past comment (#208) on Mann’s use of Shriekback in Miami Vice and Manhunter.

    Combine that with a solid cast with both relatable and mysterious characters, truly great photography, a bunch of well written episodes (actually filmed in Miami, unlike most of Scarface), and you get something that reflects (and re-invents) a place far more powerfully than De Palma’s film.

    To be fair, Miami Vice was a show with multiple seasons to broadly showcase both true-to-life and more sensational stories of Miami, large and small, which was beyond the scope of Scarface. Miami itself is a major character in Miami Vice, while Miami in Scarface is more of an interesting (yet fitting) backdrop for Al Pacino to do his thing.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @PiltdownMan

    Scarface has a strong script by Oliver Stone and lead performances by Pacino and a young Michelle Pfeiffer. De Palma’s direction wasn’t as impressive as his previous work and contributed to the middling reviews it received. I can remember being surprised, after having read the meh reviews, by what a powerful movie it was. I can remember thinking to myself with surprise about 45 minutes in when first seeing it on Westwood Blvd. in late 1983: “This is a freight train of a movie.”

    De Palma’s music video scenes in Scarface weren’t especially good and the art direction was decent but not exceptional. In general, De Palma didn’t really have a visual style that was distinctive for Scarface.

    So Michael Mann comes along in the fall of 1984 on TV with Miami Vice and brings some of the techniques he’d pioneered in Thief in 1981 to TV. He had all sorts of rules, like “No earth tones.” It’s hard to explain how much better Miami Vice looked than just about anything that had ever been on TV before. But Miami Vice also benefitted from Scarface coming before it.

    Also, TV shows have time to work the kinks out. For example, Miami Vice started out fairly light and comic in tone: Sonny lived on a boat and had a pet alligator. His boss was harassed.

    Then partway through the first season they fired the boss and replaced him with Edward James Olmos and went super serious. The best shows became about the guilt the cops felts about talking minor crooks into wearing a wire and then their informants getting killed.

    On the other hand, the typical budget per hour was perhaps an order of magnitude lower than in the movies, so buy the second season when it was a sensation I started to notice that it didn’t compare to the best movies.

    But the writing continued to improve maybe into the third season. The last two years were lower in quality, but for about 2.5 years it was a huge leap forward in television drama quality. On the other hand, it’s not clear that anybody is very interested in old TV drama. They still play I Love Lucy on TV, but nobody is interested in late 20th Century dramas. For some reason, they are more disposable than sitcoms.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Steve Sailer

    Thanks for the lengthy reply. I agree —


    It’s hard to explain how much better Miami Vice looked than just about anything that had ever been on TV before. But Miami Vice also benefitted from Scarface coming before it.
     
    You wrote about the change in tone:

    Then partway through the first season they fired the boss and replaced him with Edward James Olmos and went super serious. The best shows became about the guilt the cops felts about talking minor crooks into wearing a wire and then their informants getting killed.
     
    One (overlooked?) thing about the show which fascinated me as an impressionable ‘80s middle school kid was the exotic weirdness of many of the episodes, ‘serious’ ones included. They went beyond standard police procedure box ticking and hinted at chaos and mystery beyond ‘law and order’ and cops and perps.

    Great episodes like “Tale of the Goat,” “Bushido,” “Little Miss Dangerous,” and “Viking Bikers From Hell” featured funky over-the-top characters that could plausibly turn up in the free-for-all crossroads that Miami became.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    There have been several documentaries on the making of Scarface. The odd look of Scarface was in part because shooting had to be moved from the Miami area to Hollywood due to protests.


    Despite its Miami setting, much of the film was actually shot in Los Angeles, as the Miami Tourist board was afraid that the film would deter tourism with its depiction of the state as a haven for drugs and gangsters.[22] Tony's opulent Miami mansion was portrayed by El Fureidis, a Roman-styled mansion in Santa Barbara, California.[23]

    The picture was shot for 24 weeks from November 22, 1982 to May 6, 1983.[24
     
    Scarface was a moderate success at the boxoffice in its initial Holiday season release and I remember seeing at the drive-in the following year.

    But what made Scarface a phenomena was the debut of the VHS tape market in the mid-eighties and cable tv market. I remember going to parties for years where folks would sit around and shout out the dialogue "Rocky Horror Picture Show" fashion.

    Steve, you were living in Chicago at the time. Do you remember the hilarious edited for television version of Scarface that WGN would play several times a month???

    Scarface TV version - Funny as hell
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3cYepBxJus

    By the time the Miami Vice show was in production, the feds. thanks to Reagan had had success in turning the tide against the Columbian and Cuban drug lords. Remember Scarface was set in the late 70s, early eighties, just a few years earlier, but when local Florida law enforcement was still completely over matched. A time that lots of folks in Miami wanted to put behind them.

    Remember the shutting down of Carlos Lehder's cocaine hub in the Bahamas turned the tide in the South Florida drug war in early 1982.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman's_Cay

    So by 1984 a TV show focusing on the efforts by local law enforcement in fighting drug crime like Miami Vice was able to film in the Miami area.
  29. @Classical Liberal
    @Alfa158

    The vast majority of economists disagree with you. Immigrants are what Americans used to be: hardworking and fertile. The white working class needs to be replaced. Read Bryan Caplan.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Desiderius, @Pericles, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    Bam! Case closed.

    For extra credit, see if you can get close enough to knock on the door of his bubble.

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2012/03/my_beautiful_bu.html
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2013/04/make_your_own_b.html

    “I’m hardly autarchic.” – Bryan Caplan

  30. (Hardworking and less-criminal) Cubans had been immigrating to Miami since the ’50s, but the 1980 Mariel Boatlift unload over 100,000 mostly dirt-poor degenerates on Miami in six months (thanks Jimmy Carter!) Subsequent relentless small waves of Cubans arrived on smaller boats and rafts for the next twenty years. All this probably triggered population growth of over a million people in the Miami area.

    If the Mariel Boatlift didn’t suppress wages, it certainly created a drastic growth industry for law enforcement. There are so many law enforcement agencies of various stripes down there they’re tripping over each other.

    Oh, and don’t forget the large numbers of Jamaican and Haitian immigrants.

    This morning’s Miami news:

    Black bicyclist shoots HIspanic man in face during robbery.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article183150796.html#storylink=hpdigest

    Ex-cop (Haitian) on trial for not revealing HIV status to multiple partners

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-pn-greenacres-cop-hiv-trial-preview-20171106-story.html#nt=oft12aH-1li3

  31. @Thomm
    @Alfa158


    The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.
     
    You are conflating legal with illegal immigration, and skilled with unskilled. This is a common mistake that WN wiggers make.

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites. White variance is very high, and a WN loser has no more in common with a successful white than a chihuahua has with a German Shepherd.

    If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    A white supremacist who is not a white nationalist. Intriguing. Is this like the New York Jews who abhor Zionism?

  32. @Drake
    Economist George Borjas published a paper and a series of blog posts arguing that Card's study was flawed and the data actually showed a lowering of wages in Miami after the Mariel boatlift.

    https://gborjas.org/category/mariel/

    And a surprisingly balanced article on the debate from the Miami Herald

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article162683083.html

    But neither of them address the interesting point about Miami being a center of the cocaine trade at the time.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    But neither of them address the interesting point about Miami being a center of the cocaine trade at the time.

    It’s not considered appropriate by economists to think about the one thing that every average person knows about Miami in the early 1980s.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    @Steve Sailer

    That’s just bizarre considering the role of the Opium Wars in establishing Hong Kong as a centre of international commerce. For example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War

  33. @Steve Sailer
    @Drake

    But neither of them address the interesting point about Miami being a center of the cocaine trade at the time.

    It's not considered appropriate by economists to think about the one thing that every average person knows about Miami in the early 1980s.

    Replies: @Cortes

    That’s just bizarre considering the role of the Opium Wars in establishing Hong Kong as a centre of international commerce. For example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War

  34. Wasn’t it also the case that the “Marielista’ refugees were not allowed to congregate in Miami? 18,000 were housed at the Fort Chaffee military base in Arkansas among other ‘reception centers’. To draw any conclusions about the impact of “Marielista’ immigration on Miami wages in the early 80’s when many of the Marielista’s were located far away from Miami is absurd.

  35. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen?

    Are any of you globalists really so stupid as to believe that people won’t be found to do any job, if the wages are high enough?

    And are you really so stupid as to believe that importing division in the form of large amounts of culturally and racially distinct labour just as automation promises to remove large swathes of the employment they are coming for is a good idea?

    It wouldn’t be a problem, if only it were just you globalists who will pay the blood price to c0me, but sadly it’s the innocents who will suffer the most, and many of you guilty men will blithely evade the consequences as usual.

    If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit.

    A far as domestic service industries are concerned, they depend upon a healthy, high wage and high employment situation for their existence anyway.

    It’s pretty straightforward in the end: a situation in which labour is scarce, wages high and jobs easy to come by is good for the masses and bad for greedy elites, whereas a situation in which labour is easily undercut by cheap immigrants, jobs are precarious and scarce, and wages are low is great for greedy corporates, for wealthy elites, and for state apparatchiks and academics with cosy sinecures.

    You’ve made your own loyalties clear, at least.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Randal

    bofo retort! Classical liberal indeed.

  36. the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration

    You probably covered this back when the figures came out months ago, but here in the UK we recently had a reprise of the “worst wage growth since the Napoleonic wars” issue when some lefty used it in Parliament to attack the government:

    Reality Check: Is pay growing at its worst rate since the Napoleonic Wars?

    Now what could possibly be different about the context of the 2008 economic crash in Britain (and in the US), that might mean it’s unsurprising that subsequent wage recovery was so remarkably anaemic, despite high supposed employment levels?

    In other words, the mass immigration and importation of cheap foreign labour following the 1997 opening of the immigration floodgates (and subsequently keeping them open) by the Blairite PMs (Blair, Brown, Cameron, May) has had an effect on British wages comparable to involvement in a disastrous world war.

  37. @Thomm
    @Alfa158


    The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.
     
    You are conflating legal with illegal immigration, and skilled with unskilled. This is a common mistake that WN wiggers make.

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites. White variance is very high, and a WN loser has no more in common with a successful white than a chihuahua has with a German Shepherd.

    If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    Oh boy, it’s the dude who was cucked by a WN.

    Protip: “WN wigger” is an oxymoron almost by definition. WNs do not tend to hold wiggers in high regard, even though they do generally come from the same general backgrounds.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @AndrewR


    Protip: “WN wigger” is an oxymoron almost by definition. WNs do not tend to hold wiggers in high regard, even though they do generally come from the same general backgrounds.
     
    False. That is what you think, but you WNs have behavior far more in common with BLM blacks than successful whites. The WN mentality, talent level, and IQ is on par with black BLM participants.

    It is similar to how race nationalists think they are right-wing, but in reality are left-wing (due to leftist economic views).

    Get a clue.

  38. @Classical Liberal
    @Buck

    Japan is a dying society. The economy isn't growing and the national debt is twice GDP. Read Noah Smith:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-03/how-japan-needs-to-change-to-welcome-immigrants

    Replies: @jimmyriddle, @Buck Turgidson, @Chrisnonymous, @jbwilson24

    How else could a country possibly thrive economically and technologically without boatloads of illiterate third worlders? I mean, how do you think the us put a man on the moon, and won ww 2? Thank goodness we have hondurans and somalis here and who helped us emerge from our caves.

  39. @Steve Sailer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Scarface has a strong script by Oliver Stone and lead performances by Pacino and a young Michelle Pfeiffer. De Palma's direction wasn't as impressive as his previous work and contributed to the middling reviews it received. I can remember being surprised, after having read the meh reviews, by what a powerful movie it was. I can remember thinking to myself with surprise about 45 minutes in when first seeing it on Westwood Blvd. in late 1983: "This is a freight train of a movie."

    De Palma's music video scenes in Scarface weren't especially good and the art direction was decent but not exceptional. In general, De Palma didn't really have a visual style that was distinctive for Scarface.

    So Michael Mann comes along in the fall of 1984 on TV with Miami Vice and brings some of the techniques he'd pioneered in Thief in 1981 to TV. He had all sorts of rules, like "No earth tones." It's hard to explain how much better Miami Vice looked than just about anything that had ever been on TV before. But Miami Vice also benefitted from Scarface coming before it.

    Also, TV shows have time to work the kinks out. For example, Miami Vice started out fairly light and comic in tone: Sonny lived on a boat and had a pet alligator. His boss was harassed.

    Then partway through the first season they fired the boss and replaced him with Edward James Olmos and went super serious. The best shows became about the guilt the cops felts about talking minor crooks into wearing a wire and then their informants getting killed.

    On the other hand, the typical budget per hour was perhaps an order of magnitude lower than in the movies, so buy the second season when it was a sensation I started to notice that it didn't compare to the best movies.

    But the writing continued to improve maybe into the third season. The last two years were lower in quality, but for about 2.5 years it was a huge leap forward in television drama quality. On the other hand, it's not clear that anybody is very interested in old TV drama. They still play I Love Lucy on TV, but nobody is interested in late 20th Century dramas. For some reason, they are more disposable than sitcoms.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @anonymous-antimarxist

    Thanks for the lengthy reply. I agree —

    It’s hard to explain how much better Miami Vice looked than just about anything that had ever been on TV before. But Miami Vice also benefitted from Scarface coming before it.

    You wrote about the change in tone:

    Then partway through the first season they fired the boss and replaced him with Edward James Olmos and went super serious. The best shows became about the guilt the cops felts about talking minor crooks into wearing a wire and then their informants getting killed.

    One (overlooked?) thing about the show which fascinated me as an impressionable ‘80s middle school kid was the exotic weirdness of many of the episodes, ‘serious’ ones included. They went beyond standard police procedure box ticking and hinted at chaos and mystery beyond ‘law and order’ and cops and perps.

    Great episodes like “Tale of the Goat,” “Bushido,” “Little Miss Dangerous,” and “Viking Bikers From Hell” featured funky over-the-top characters that could plausibly turn up in the free-for-all crossroads that Miami became.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I got the impression that Miami Vice was upgrading its screenwriters over the first two or three years, before falling off.

    Also, the casting was pretty good. Not as good as Law & Order became, but better than most TV shows: e.g., a Stanley Tucci young enough to have hair. Some of the stunt casting of celebrities who couldn't act didn't quite work -- Ted Nugent was okay, Bianca Jagger bad. But Phil Collins wasn't bad. He might have caught on as an actor except he was real similar to Bob Hoskins.

    In summary, it was a huge leap forward over earlier shows, such as Starsky and Hutch, which Mann had written for.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  40. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @PiltdownMan


    Didn’t Brian De Palma get there first, in 1983, a year before Miami Vice, with Scarface?
     
    True, but Scarface is all garish excess, nothing sublime. That is not to say it isn’t a great movie, it’s a classic. But Miami Vice had a different, sophisticated vibe that broadly reintroduced the city to the world and helped define a certain national ’80s slick aesthetic, unlike De Palma’s baroque character study of King Midas insanity.

    The Miami Vice soundtracks (pop songs and score), for instance, hooked into all sorts of moods befitting events and characters that no other show (IMO) has come close to doing, and in a brand new way. Part of that is because the Eighties had some amazing, inventive artists to feature, mainstream and otherwise. Some of it was schlock, but much of it was great—here’s my past comment (#208) on Mann’s use of Shriekback in Miami Vice and Manhunter.

    Combine that with a solid cast with both relatable and mysterious characters, truly great photography, a bunch of well written episodes (actually filmed in Miami, unlike most of Scarface), and you get something that reflects (and re-invents) a place far more powerfully than De Palma’s film.

    To be fair, Miami Vice was a show with multiple seasons to broadly showcase both true-to-life and more sensational stories of Miami, large and small, which was beyond the scope of Scarface. Miami itself is a major character in Miami Vice, while Miami in Scarface is more of an interesting (yet fitting) backdrop for Al Pacino to do his thing.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @PiltdownMan

    I remember being quite excited by Miami Vice and looked forward to it every week not because of the extraordinary visual style which depended on Miami’s art deco and pastel colors but because it was the first show on TV that used contemporary music from the music charts. That was one of the things made it really stand out from the other shows on TV.

    Another was the use of contemporary cutting-edge designer couture. I remember that Miami Vice gave Gianni Versace the kind of exposure in America that Paul Schrader’s 1980 movie,American Gigolo, gave Giorgio Armani. Each of those brands was little-known before then. But they became huge in the 1980’s and after, thanks to the brand-defining exposure.

  41. @Alfa158
    @Classical Liberal

    I have to admit that you are probably right about that. The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.

    Replies: @Classical Liberal, @Thomm, @helena

    Gosh I read the other replies, they sound angry. Something else to think about, which I have surmised from the uk situation, economists like to talk in gdp. So UK gdp has gone up but gdp per cap has gone down. That’s a net disbenefit [without even accounting for the cost of immigration in terms of health and education services, affirmative services such as translations. One local authority justified spending 15grand on a hologram woman to give directions in the building because the ‘diverse community’ needs a human face, a signpost is alienating.]

    Back to gdp – a huge chunk of gdp could be removed without changing the nature of indigenous society – every immigrant community has its own economy – specialist food shops, cultural accessories etc. The benefits of that part of gdp goes to the immigrant community. So to sell the idea of immigration to the indigenous population on the basis that it will increase gdp is a deception.

  42. @Classical Liberal
    @Buck

    Japan is a dying society. The economy isn't growing and the national debt is twice GDP. Read Noah Smith:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-03/how-japan-needs-to-change-to-welcome-immigrants

    Replies: @jimmyriddle, @Buck Turgidson, @Chrisnonymous, @jbwilson24

    I don’t think you read that article, or you simply have poor comprehension skills. Noah Smith is not arguing for increasing unskilled immigration. In fact, he argues for a shift in Japanese immigration toward skilled labor. And anyhow, the article is about the way Japan is dealing with its immigrants, not a call for a massive increase in immigration.

    While acknowledging that Japan’s economy has problems, these have less to do with its declining population than with the rise of China. Just like in the US and Europe, the decision to increase unskilled immigration is accepting long-term impoverishment for growth gains in the short-term.

  43. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm
    @Alfa158


    The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.
     
    You are conflating legal with illegal immigration, and skilled with unskilled. This is a common mistake that WN wiggers make.

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites. White variance is very high, and a WN loser has no more in common with a successful white than a chihuahua has with a German Shepherd.

    If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    Sort of how when the British dumped off all their convicts and trouble makers in Australia, it immediately became a failed state worse than Rawanda, right?

    How about you go live in Zimbabwe and I’ll buy a house on Bondi Beach. We should have roughly equal experiences, right?

    Look up ‘regression to the mean’ after those workmen show up with the crane to pull your head out of your ass.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @Anon

    Wrong. 19th-century convicts, based on the laws at the time, are not analogous to the bottom-20% waste matter that lower-tier whites represent. The men become WN losers, and the women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    If *this* group were given their own land, they would quickly create a Liberia/Haiti/Rwanda. They have nothing in common with successful whites, and everything in common with negros (indeed the lower half of negros).

    Replies: @notanon, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Anon

    Me need a yob and me used to hang steel with crane. Me pull Thomm's head long time!!

  44. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business.

    Large numbers of those hotels and restaurants need to go out of business as they are cheap, gaudy and far-flung and cater to the worst, lowest-common-denominator ersatz bourgeois taste, a blight on the country’s cultural and environmental landscape and providing no real economic value except outlets for needs that would not be there if it were safer and more affordable for actual Americans to live decently in the denser and longer-settled areas once more.

  45. @Classical Liberal
    @Alfa158

    The vast majority of economists disagree with you. Immigrants are what Americans used to be: hardworking and fertile. The white working class needs to be replaced. Read Bryan Caplan.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Desiderius, @Pericles, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    Argument from authority is not a strong one in these parts. Economists have some blind spots on this topic, one big one of which is the HBD angle.

    While it’s true that a lot of prosperity in human history has been built on various forms of low-wage labor, these have always taken advantage of disparities–between in and out group, between free and slave. The direction the world is moving in is the elimination of these disparities. In a future theoretical world in which development is more evenly distributed, there won’t be any more growth blood to be squeezed out of the disparity stone. That means current growth strategies are unsustainable, and people ought to be figuring out other ways to organize the economy. A utilitarian like Bryan Caplan ought to realize that.

  46. Harvard economist Borjas, himself a Cuban immigrant, has debunked the Card paper.

  47. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Steve Sailer

    Thanks for the lengthy reply. I agree —


    It’s hard to explain how much better Miami Vice looked than just about anything that had ever been on TV before. But Miami Vice also benefitted from Scarface coming before it.
     
    You wrote about the change in tone:

    Then partway through the first season they fired the boss and replaced him with Edward James Olmos and went super serious. The best shows became about the guilt the cops felts about talking minor crooks into wearing a wire and then their informants getting killed.
     
    One (overlooked?) thing about the show which fascinated me as an impressionable ‘80s middle school kid was the exotic weirdness of many of the episodes, ‘serious’ ones included. They went beyond standard police procedure box ticking and hinted at chaos and mystery beyond ‘law and order’ and cops and perps.

    Great episodes like “Tale of the Goat,” “Bushido,” “Little Miss Dangerous,” and “Viking Bikers From Hell” featured funky over-the-top characters that could plausibly turn up in the free-for-all crossroads that Miami became.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I got the impression that Miami Vice was upgrading its screenwriters over the first two or three years, before falling off.

    Also, the casting was pretty good. Not as good as Law & Order became, but better than most TV shows: e.g., a Stanley Tucci young enough to have hair. Some of the stunt casting of celebrities who couldn’t act didn’t quite work — Ted Nugent was okay, Bianca Jagger bad. But Phil Collins wasn’t bad. He might have caught on as an actor except he was real similar to Bob Hoskins.

    In summary, it was a huge leap forward over earlier shows, such as Starsky and Hutch, which Mann had written for.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    The casting of the series Miami Vice was better than the casting of Michael Mann's Miami Vice movie.

    Jamie Foxx was absolutely terrible as Rico Tubbs, the suave Caribbean black cop played by Philip Michael Thomas. He just played him as a cocky African American. Mann would have been better off with Chiwetel Ejiofor as Tubbs if he wanted a well known actor.

    The movie is still worth watching though.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  48. @Steve Sailer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Scarface has a strong script by Oliver Stone and lead performances by Pacino and a young Michelle Pfeiffer. De Palma's direction wasn't as impressive as his previous work and contributed to the middling reviews it received. I can remember being surprised, after having read the meh reviews, by what a powerful movie it was. I can remember thinking to myself with surprise about 45 minutes in when first seeing it on Westwood Blvd. in late 1983: "This is a freight train of a movie."

    De Palma's music video scenes in Scarface weren't especially good and the art direction was decent but not exceptional. In general, De Palma didn't really have a visual style that was distinctive for Scarface.

    So Michael Mann comes along in the fall of 1984 on TV with Miami Vice and brings some of the techniques he'd pioneered in Thief in 1981 to TV. He had all sorts of rules, like "No earth tones." It's hard to explain how much better Miami Vice looked than just about anything that had ever been on TV before. But Miami Vice also benefitted from Scarface coming before it.

    Also, TV shows have time to work the kinks out. For example, Miami Vice started out fairly light and comic in tone: Sonny lived on a boat and had a pet alligator. His boss was harassed.

    Then partway through the first season they fired the boss and replaced him with Edward James Olmos and went super serious. The best shows became about the guilt the cops felts about talking minor crooks into wearing a wire and then their informants getting killed.

    On the other hand, the typical budget per hour was perhaps an order of magnitude lower than in the movies, so buy the second season when it was a sensation I started to notice that it didn't compare to the best movies.

    But the writing continued to improve maybe into the third season. The last two years were lower in quality, but for about 2.5 years it was a huge leap forward in television drama quality. On the other hand, it's not clear that anybody is very interested in old TV drama. They still play I Love Lucy on TV, but nobody is interested in late 20th Century dramas. For some reason, they are more disposable than sitcoms.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @anonymous-antimarxist

    There have been several documentaries on the making of Scarface. The odd look of Scarface was in part because shooting had to be moved from the Miami area to Hollywood due to protests.

    Despite its Miami setting, much of the film was actually shot in Los Angeles, as the Miami Tourist board was afraid that the film would deter tourism with its depiction of the state as a haven for drugs and gangsters.[22] Tony’s opulent Miami mansion was portrayed by El Fureidis, a Roman-styled mansion in Santa Barbara, California.[23]

    The picture was shot for 24 weeks from November 22, 1982 to May 6, 1983.[24

    Scarface was a moderate success at the boxoffice in its initial Holiday season release and I remember seeing at the drive-in the following year.

    But what made Scarface a phenomena was the debut of the VHS tape market in the mid-eighties and cable tv market. I remember going to parties for years where folks would sit around and shout out the dialogue “Rocky Horror Picture Show” fashion.

    Steve, you were living in Chicago at the time. Do you remember the hilarious edited for television version of Scarface that WGN would play several times a month???

    Scarface TV version – Funny as hell

    By the time the Miami Vice show was in production, the feds. thanks to Reagan had had success in turning the tide against the Columbian and Cuban drug lords. Remember Scarface was set in the late 70s, early eighties, just a few years earlier, but when local Florida law enforcement was still completely over matched. A time that lots of folks in Miami wanted to put behind them.

    Remember the shutting down of Carlos Lehder’s cocaine hub in the Bahamas turned the tide in the South Florida drug war in early 1982.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman’s_Cay

    So by 1984 a TV show focusing on the efforts by local law enforcement in fighting drug crime like Miami Vice was able to film in the Miami area.

  49. @Steve Sailer
    @(((Owen)))

    Wasn't there some peninsula in Columbia?

    Replies: @EdwardM, @kaganovitch

    Not really. Panama was part of Colombia until it started the Canal at the beginning of the 20th century, so maybe that’s what you’re thinking of. There is now a small rump abutting Panama that I suppose you could call a peninsula.

  50. At least one other commenter has mentioned the Harvard economist George Borjas. Borjas has written a fantastic, well documented book “We Wanted Workers”. Get the book and read it, or, there are several YouTube videos where he talks about the economic costs of immigration. They are worth your while to view them. Just do a simple YouTube search for George Borjas

  51. You mean to say that rookie beat cops in Miami should not have been able to afford brand new Porsche 911s in the early 1980s on their wages?

  52. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    As long as there are enough workers to do the essential stuff like maintain roads, fix drains and repair vehicles (still very much white dominated jobs) it doesn’t matter if there is a shortage of non-essential hospitality workers.

  53. @Anon
    @Thomm

    Sort of how when the British dumped off all their convicts and trouble makers in Australia, it immediately became a failed state worse than Rawanda, right?

    How about you go live in Zimbabwe and I'll buy a house on Bondi Beach. We should have roughly equal experiences, right?

    Look up 'regression to the mean' after those workmen show up with the crane to pull your head out of your ass.

    Replies: @Thomm, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Wrong. 19th-century convicts, based on the laws at the time, are not analogous to the bottom-20% waste matter that lower-tier whites represent. The men become WN losers, and the women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    If *this* group were given their own land, they would quickly create a Liberia/Haiti/Rwanda. They have nothing in common with successful whites, and everything in common with negros (indeed the lower half of negros).

    • Troll: Randal
    • Replies: @notanon
    @Thomm

    they were from among the people least likely to be able to afford enough to eat and so for the most part the bottom 20%.

    now the bottom 20% of UK back then may have been better than their descendants are now but that's a consequence of the deliberately dysgenic polices promoted by people such as yourself - and can be reversed over time through reversing those policies.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Thomm


    They have nothing in common with successful whites, and everything in common with negros (indeed the lower half of negros).
     
    The bottom-fifth of whites do well enough when not segregated from the rest of them. Those of us from small towns and cities know that from experience.

    Just as the bottom nine-tenths of blacks were better off before open-housing laws let the talented tenth desert their brothers.
  54. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Thomm

    "If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country"

    Are WNs also wiggers?

    It's a fun thought experiment, IMHO the males would soon be farming (or starving) and building, and the females would miraculously slim down (where's the food?), lose the attitude (no office jobs, no TV) and be competing for any male with a weatherproof hut/house and reliable food supply.

    Replies: @Thomm

    Are WNs also wiggers?

    Yes, they are.

    They see race in everything.
    They are uproductive and victimhood-seeking.
    They produce nothing.
    They have no scientific or mathematical aptitude.
    They have a preference for obese women.

    WNs = wiggers.

  55. “When everybody uses the same oracle, and everybody believes the oracle, the oracle turns into a sovereign.”
    ― Yuval Noah Harari, Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow

    The economists are quite right, from their point of view. They are operating on a planetary economic yardstick, not a national ones. That is why the yardstick of national unity and flourishing of the current national population is considered an invalid perspective.

  56. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    One of my younger half-brothers worked as a cook in a diner for years. Another of them worked as an itinerant fruit-picker. An uncle was a roofer. All native-born Americans. All doing jobs that Americans won’t do.

  57. @Classical Liberal
    @Alfa158

    The vast majority of economists disagree with you. Immigrants are what Americans used to be: hardworking and fertile. The white working class needs to be replaced. Read Bryan Caplan.

    Replies: @Daniel H, @Desiderius, @Pericles, @Chrisnonymous, @MBlanc46

    Read this! Read that! You sound like old Tarleton in Shaw’s “Misalliance”.

  58. @Pericles
    @Classical Liberal

    As an eminent Frenchman of the Enlightenment might have put it, men will never be free until the last classic liberal is strangled with the entrails of the last migrant.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    Where is Diderot when we really need him?

  59. @Anonymous
    @Buck

    All other things being equal, you'd think there would be more manufacturing businesses that would want to locate in college towns to take advantage of this. Instead they avoid them like the plague.

    I wonder why.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Simple– College student populations typically drop by 65-80% for the summer and can’t work but so many hours a week while carrying a full time course load the rest of the year. Manufacturing (what’s left of it) needs a more anchored and less distracted labor force to reliably staff its production floor.

  60. Remember Scarface was set in the late 70s, early eighties, just a few years earlier, but when local Florida law enforcement was still completely over matched.

    Boy, those were the days and it spread up into Georgia. I remember at least one incident in the early 80s, possibly several, where the Colombian cartels would go in some lightly populated, remote, south Georgia county and co-opt the entire sheriff’s department, to the point where the deputies were blocking roads for airplanes to land.

    I’m not sure you could buy an entire sheriff’s department like that these days.

  61. @Anon
    @Thomm

    Sort of how when the British dumped off all their convicts and trouble makers in Australia, it immediately became a failed state worse than Rawanda, right?

    How about you go live in Zimbabwe and I'll buy a house on Bondi Beach. We should have roughly equal experiences, right?

    Look up 'regression to the mean' after those workmen show up with the crane to pull your head out of your ass.

    Replies: @Thomm, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Me need a yob and me used to hang steel with crane. Me pull Thomm’s head long time!!

  62. @Randal
    @Classical Liberal


    Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen?
     
    Are any of you globalists really so stupid as to believe that people won't be found to do any job, if the wages are high enough?

    And are you really so stupid as to believe that importing division in the form of large amounts of culturally and racially distinct labour just as automation promises to remove large swathes of the employment they are coming for is a good idea?

    It wouldn't be a problem, if only it were just you globalists who will pay the blood price to c0me, but sadly it's the innocents who will suffer the most, and many of you guilty men will blithely evade the consequences as usual.

    If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit.
     
    A far as domestic service industries are concerned, they depend upon a healthy, high wage and high employment situation for their existence anyway.

    It's pretty straightforward in the end: a situation in which labour is scarce, wages high and jobs easy to come by is good for the masses and bad for greedy elites, whereas a situation in which labour is easily undercut by cheap immigrants, jobs are precarious and scarce, and wages are low is great for greedy corporates, for wealthy elites, and for state apparatchiks and academics with cosy sinecures.

    You've made your own loyalties clear, at least.

    Replies: @Clyde

    bofo retort! Classical liberal indeed.

  63. @Thomm
    @Anon

    Wrong. 19th-century convicts, based on the laws at the time, are not analogous to the bottom-20% waste matter that lower-tier whites represent. The men become WN losers, and the women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    If *this* group were given their own land, they would quickly create a Liberia/Haiti/Rwanda. They have nothing in common with successful whites, and everything in common with negros (indeed the lower half of negros).

    Replies: @notanon, @Reg Cæsar

    they were from among the people least likely to be able to afford enough to eat and so for the most part the bottom 20%.

    now the bottom 20% of UK back then may have been better than their descendants are now but that’s a consequence of the deliberately dysgenic polices promoted by people such as yourself – and can be reversed over time through reversing those policies.

  64. @Maj. Kong
    Crops rotting in the fields

    https://www.ft.com/content/13e183ee-c099-11e7-b8a3-38a6e068f464


    Scheherazade Daneshkhu (Author) real Anglo-Saxon there

    Replies: @notanon

    Crops rotting in the fields

    Same people wrecking the UK as wrecked California.

    1) low productivity work is low paid – importing people to do those jobs if there’s not enough local volunteers automatically lowers average productivity and average productivity is the foundation of prosperity. the solution to low productivity work that doesn’t pay well enough to attract workers is upgrading the technology involved -> leading fewer but better paid workers -> increase in average productivity -> increased prosperity.

    2) doing (1) even once is stupid but what actually happens is the slave labor imported to do this work quits after a few years and heads off the the nearest city to find better work (or welfare) thus needing a continuing resupply of crop pickers *and* a massive over supply of unskilled labor throughout the economy eventually leading to California going form near the top to near the bottom of the high school leagues.

    The “crops rotting” meme is pure poison and the people spreading it: Economist, FT etc are poisoners.

    The *only* good solution is technology/innovation e.g.

    https://techcrunch.com/2014/12/23/at-california-olive-ranch-technology-takes-root/

  65. @AndrewR
    @Thomm

    Oh boy, it's the dude who was cucked by a WN.

    Protip: "WN wigger" is an oxymoron almost by definition. WNs do not tend to hold wiggers in high regard, even though they do generally come from the same general backgrounds.

    Replies: @Thomm

    Protip: “WN wigger” is an oxymoron almost by definition. WNs do not tend to hold wiggers in high regard, even though they do generally come from the same general backgrounds.

    False. That is what you think, but you WNs have behavior far more in common with BLM blacks than successful whites. The WN mentality, talent level, and IQ is on par with black BLM participants.

    It is similar to how race nationalists think they are right-wing, but in reality are left-wing (due to leftist economic views).

    Get a clue.

  66. @Thomm
    @Alfa158


    The incontrovertible proof is the historical fact that there were no farms, restaurants, or hotels in the United States prior to the 1965 Hart-Cellar act that opened the US to mass third world immigration.
     
    You are conflating legal with illegal immigration, and skilled with unskilled. This is a common mistake that WN wiggers make.

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites. White variance is very high, and a WN loser has no more in common with a successful white than a chihuahua has with a German Shepherd.

    If bottom 20% whites (WN wigger males and fat feminist females) were given land to make their own country, it would be worse than Rwanda.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Pericles, @AndrewR, @Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    Plus, you have no business speaking for successful whites.

    They sure don’t speak up for the less-successful ones, do they?

    I mean, even Mexico has standards below which they won’t go. Not you.

  67. @Steve Sailer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I got the impression that Miami Vice was upgrading its screenwriters over the first two or three years, before falling off.

    Also, the casting was pretty good. Not as good as Law & Order became, but better than most TV shows: e.g., a Stanley Tucci young enough to have hair. Some of the stunt casting of celebrities who couldn't act didn't quite work -- Ted Nugent was okay, Bianca Jagger bad. But Phil Collins wasn't bad. He might have caught on as an actor except he was real similar to Bob Hoskins.

    In summary, it was a huge leap forward over earlier shows, such as Starsky and Hutch, which Mann had written for.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    The casting of the series Miami Vice was better than the casting of Michael Mann’s Miami Vice movie.

    Jamie Foxx was absolutely terrible as Rico Tubbs, the suave Caribbean black cop played by Philip Michael Thomas. He just played him as a cocky African American. Mann would have been better off with Chiwetel Ejiofor as Tubbs if he wanted a well known actor.

    The movie is still worth watching though.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Dave Pinsen

    You don't mean Ejiofor specifically, do you, Dave? He was a teenager when the movie was filmed. I agree Jamie Foxx just played it wrong. Colin Farrell wasn't bad, but Don Johnson was more believable as an American cop. Not that believability had much to do with the show.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  68. @Thomm
    @Anon

    Wrong. 19th-century convicts, based on the laws at the time, are not analogous to the bottom-20% waste matter that lower-tier whites represent. The men become WN losers, and the women become fat bluehaired feminists.

    If *this* group were given their own land, they would quickly create a Liberia/Haiti/Rwanda. They have nothing in common with successful whites, and everything in common with negros (indeed the lower half of negros).

    Replies: @notanon, @Reg Cæsar

    They have nothing in common with successful whites, and everything in common with negros (indeed the lower half of negros).

    The bottom-fifth of whites do well enough when not segregated from the rest of them. Those of us from small towns and cities know that from experience.

    Just as the bottom nine-tenths of blacks were better off before open-housing laws let the talented tenth desert their brothers.

  69. The bottom-fifth of whites do well enough when not segregated from the rest of them. Those of us from small towns and cities know that from experience.

    You still don’t get it. It is not just an economic calculation. A poor white doing an honest job and not obsessed with race is not the problem.

    Rather, there is something that just causes unusually high variance in whites (talent, character, intelligence, etc.). Among women, for example, there is an unusually high variance in looks (all stages on the 1-10 scale are represented, whereas for (young) East Asian women, almost all fall in the 5-8 range). The same extremely high variance manifests in the talent and character of white males.

    That is why, among other things, the White Trashionalists are unable to recruit more admirable whites to the cause (a cause that is identical to BLM, btw).

    The production of excellent whites produces some genetic waste matter that has to go somewhere for expulsion. We see this take the form of WNs (if male) and fat feminists (if female). Ironically, top-notch parents can still produce the occasional ‘wastebasket’ offspring. We see this when the offspring of impressive parents has a distinct lack of any desirable human trait (which happens with whites more than with other races).

    Hence, if these wastebasket whites were given their own country, it would quickly become worse than Liberia or Haiti.

  70. @Dave Pinsen
    @Steve Sailer

    The casting of the series Miami Vice was better than the casting of Michael Mann's Miami Vice movie.

    Jamie Foxx was absolutely terrible as Rico Tubbs, the suave Caribbean black cop played by Philip Michael Thomas. He just played him as a cocky African American. Mann would have been better off with Chiwetel Ejiofor as Tubbs if he wanted a well known actor.

    The movie is still worth watching though.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    You don’t mean Ejiofor specifically, do you, Dave? He was a teenager when the movie was filmed. I agree Jamie Foxx just played it wrong. Colin Farrell wasn’t bad, but Don Johnson was more believable as an American cop. Not that believability had much to do with the show.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @PiltdownMan

    I did mean Ejiofor specifically. He's 40 now, so he would have been in his late 20s when the Miami Vice movie was filmed.

    Colin Farrell did a good job of playing a man smitten with Gong Li who was implausible on a few levels (e.g., an ethnic Chinese raised in Cuba wouldn't speak with a Chinese accent).

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  71. @Classical Liberal
    @Buck

    Japan is a dying society. The economy isn't growing and the national debt is twice GDP. Read Noah Smith:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-03/how-japan-needs-to-change-to-welcome-immigrants

    Replies: @jimmyriddle, @Buck Turgidson, @Chrisnonymous, @jbwilson24

    “Japan is a dying society. The economy isn’t growing and the national debt is twice GDP.”

    Ha ha ha, I’m dying myself. Of laughter.

    Have you ever looked at a graph of world population over time? You’ll notice it goes massively exponential after the agricultural revolution.

    Japan has > 100m people on an island. And here you are, caterwauling about a decline in population levels after an exponential runup. I’m pretty sure the Japanese have a FAR better chance of their ‘society’ surviving, compared to the French or Swedes. There are zero parts of Japan that are off limits to police and firefighters.

  72. @Classical Liberal

    therefore the Law of Supply and Demand must not apply to immigration.

     

    Uh, ever heard of lump of labor fallacy? Or how about complementarity of wages? Do any of you nativists really think any Americans would want to work as prep cooks or dishwashers in a kitchen? If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profit. The only hardworking people who don't have anything better to do than low wage service work are Mexicans. Get over it. White people are going to be a minority in this country and there is nothing you can do about it.

    https://i.redd.it/yrlftp7xm4wz.png

    http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants

    Replies: @Buck, @27 year old, @Alfa158, @Anonymous, @Daniel H, @Pericles, @Randal, @Nico, @unpc downunder, @MBlanc46, @Mefobills

    If any of the immigration laws you wanted passed you would put large numbers of hotels and restaurants et al. out of business. The wages they would have to offer would be too high to make a profitt

    LoL. Then how does China do it? The only immigration they allow is for things that Chinese cannot do themselves. For example, teaching English.

    Things like sweeping floors and cleaning restrooms, and working as a Cook, are done by Chinese themselves.

    How about Japan? They manage with native workers.

  73. @Steve Sailer
    @(((Owen)))

    Wasn't there some peninsula in Columbia?

    Replies: @EdwardM, @kaganovitch

    The Guajira Peninsula is in the North of Colombia

  74. Classical Libel would want you to listen to experts. They are paid to LIE and if no one listens its Ramen Noodle Time. Economics is the sociology of accounting. Its fuzzy math caters to the Rich that fund these endeavors to tell the victims that economics is like the wave pattern of a sine/cosine wave and that its not at all a cycle of bilking the suckers who have cash to lose at a rigged game.
    Miami was an “inner city”. I suppose dumping more poor into one of those Hellholes doesn’t do much to what they laughingly call “an economy” in a slum. Miami Vice had to spend a couple of days painting and renovating sites for live real city shots to look like the cheap sleazy ghetto Crockett and Tubbs drove around in. Yeah that’s pretty bad.
    When you see that “inner cities” don’t have much in the way of trackable economies of scale, and the business is mostly done “off the books” by drug dealers, pimps and hookers, you can see why economists want to use the dead city “off the books” model of smoldering ruins to LIE about the effects of Open Invasion on Natives.

  75. @PiltdownMan
    @Dave Pinsen

    You don't mean Ejiofor specifically, do you, Dave? He was a teenager when the movie was filmed. I agree Jamie Foxx just played it wrong. Colin Farrell wasn't bad, but Don Johnson was more believable as an American cop. Not that believability had much to do with the show.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    I did mean Ejiofor specifically. He’s 40 now, so he would have been in his late 20s when the Miami Vice movie was filmed.

    Colin Farrell did a good job of playing a man smitten with Gong Li who was implausible on a few levels (e.g., an ethnic Chinese raised in Cuba wouldn’t speak with a Chinese accent).

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Dave Pinsen


    I did mean Ejiofor specifically. He’s 40 now, so he would have been in his late 20s when the Miami Vice movie was filmed.
     
    You are right, of course.

    Apologies, Dave, for distracting you with one of my senior (math) moments.

  76. George Borgas (Harvard labor economist) successfully refuted David Card’s analysis of Mariel, when he plotted the wages of male, non-hispanic, high school dropouts along an X axis of years in the 1980s.
    https://gborjas.org/2016/07/13/final-version-of-mariel-study/

    The problem is that David Card looked at the wages of all workers, which obscured the impact of the mass immigration of low-skill, male immigrants.

  77. @Dave Pinsen
    @PiltdownMan

    I did mean Ejiofor specifically. He's 40 now, so he would have been in his late 20s when the Miami Vice movie was filmed.

    Colin Farrell did a good job of playing a man smitten with Gong Li who was implausible on a few levels (e.g., an ethnic Chinese raised in Cuba wouldn't speak with a Chinese accent).

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    I did mean Ejiofor specifically. He’s 40 now, so he would have been in his late 20s when the Miami Vice movie was filmed.

    You are right, of course.

    Apologies, Dave, for distracting you with one of my senior (math) moments.

  78. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    New York Times:

    For anyone who lived through the 1980s, the television series “Miami Vice” is the pastel-shaded, music-driven, drug-saturated image of the city forever seared into memory.
     
    One thing that comes through about book author Farzad, which I can identify with, is his sentimentality and appreciation of both place and era. Perhaps he was extra susceptible to youthful imprinting, but if one is going to marinate in nostalgia, coke boom (and later) Miami ain’t a bad place to have in one’s mindspace. Michael Mann’s Miami Vice really recognized something special about the place, amping up both the garish and sublime.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spu97nbdZQI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dImO0X3WJt8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye6Ng6f-AuY

    Replies: @Clyde

    That stakeout video you posted got me going. I forgot what great music was on that show. I have just added 20 Miami Vice tracks to my MP3 player I use for exercise and walks. THANKS!

    (a remix)

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Clyde

    You’re welcome! It’s always nice to rediscover great music.

  79. @Clyde
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That stakeout video you posted got me going. I forgot what great music was on that show. I have just added 20 Miami Vice tracks to my MP3 player I use for exercise and walks. THANKS! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6kPKMKQAco (a remix)

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    You’re welcome! It’s always nice to rediscover great music.

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