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From NBC News:

Bank of America announces zero down payment, zero closing cost mortgages for Black and Hispanic first-time homebuyers

Aug. 31, 2022, 9:55 AM PDT
By Rob Wile

Bank of America said it is now offering first-time homebuyers in a select group of cities zero down payment, zero closing cost mortgages to help grow homeownership among Black and Hispanic/Latino communities.

The option will first become available in certain neighborhoods in Charlotte, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles and Miami. The new mortgage, called the Community Affordable Loan Solution, aims to help eligible individuals and families obtain an affordable loan to purchase a home, the bank said.

“Homeownership strengthens our communities and can help individuals and families to build wealth over time,” AJ Barkley, head of neighborhood and community lending for Bank of America, said in a release. “Our Community Affordable Loan Solution will help make the dream of sustained homeownership attainable for more Black and Hispanic families, and it is part of our broader commitment to the communities that we serve.”

The loans require no mortgage insurance — the additional fee typically charged to buyers who put down less than 20% of the purchase price — and no minimum credit score. Instead, eligibility will be based on factors like timely rent payments and on-time utility bill, phone and auto insurance payments. Prospective buyers must also complete a homebuyer certification course provided by Bank of America and federally approved housing counseling partners before they apply for the loan program, the bank said.

The racial gap in homeownership rates in the U.S. remained substantial in 2020, the most recent year for which National Association of Realtors data are available.

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  1. There are conditions attached, so I suspect that this batch of loans will be fine. Paying your utility bills and paying your rent is a reasonable proxy for credit score.
    And I’m sure these “certain neighborhoods” are neighborhoods with shall we say challenges.

    But of course the next round of the round after that will loosen up and side step all these requirements, like sticking a penny in an old fuse box. Which you know usually ended in a big fire.

  2. zero down payment, zero closing cost mortgages for Black and Hispanic

    We’ve probably covered this before, but I’m forgetful. Can someone remind me how this is legal?

    • Agree: megabar
    • Replies: @Curle
    , @Alfa158
    , @Goatweed
    , @Legba
  3. As the man said, it’s deja vu all over again.

  4. Inverness says:

    The loans require no mortgage insurance — the additional fee typically charged to buyers who put down less than 20% of the purchase price — and no minimum credit score.

    It is required that the applicants are breathing, right?

    But seriously, can we also do that thing with car loans, where you can defer the initial payments for two or three months?

    I mean, we do that for white people, right? So six or eight months sounds reasonable. Also, no evictions if it’s cold, or hot. Who am i kidding. Imagine the optics on evicting these people. Ain’t gonna happen.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  5. Cutter says:

    How would I go about finding the securities into which these particular mortgages were bundled?

    • Agree: JR Ewing
    • Replies: @Pixo
    , @Anonymous
  6. The Biden administration is turning out to be like one of those late night TV interminable ads for the greatest hits of the Sixties and Seventies in a boxed CD set! Only in this case it’s a boxed 8 track set.

  7. Barnard says:

    How many blacks who pay their rent, car insurance, cell phone and utilities on time and are willing to sit through a mortgage class at BofA are having trouble getting a mortgage? This sounds like it was designed to make it look like they are doing something but have as few people as possible meet the qualifications.

    • Agree: Element59, Dani
  8. Arclight says:

    As long as they keep it targeted to certain locations, I am sure the financial wizards have determined the likely losses are less than the cost of fair housing and discrimination lawsuits they would otherwise be slapped with.

    And if it expands and we have a wave of defaults of any significant size, Blackrock or some other vulture will swoop in, which is just fine with the ruling class as well. There are some honest people on the left and right who are correctly concerned about the share of the nation’s housing stock that is now owned by massive corporations and what that all means as it expands, but the bipartisan Davos crowd really seems to be leaning into the ‘you will own nothing and be happy’ concept.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  9. Altai says:

    It’s amazing how the idea of giving people loans they can’t pay back is a kind of charity goes unchallenged.

    In Denmark there have been aggressive efforts to keep the interests rates down and now there are 0.5% and even 0% mortgages. That’s actually beneficial. But making the down payment cheaper just makes it easier for people to get into debt traps.

    As we all know the financial institutions of the US are just so generous.

    But the next mass defaults on loans will be from auto loans. Ford has quietly become one of the leading lending institutions in the US giving out lots of loans for guys to buy F-150s. It looks like Ford is not only dependent on those loans to sell it’s cars (Trucks, lets be honest they don’t sell cars anymore) but also are quite dependent on the day to day profit from the interest.

    It’s going to be even worse this time because Ford and other companies have stopped making small cars because people who buy new cars don’t tend to buy economical cars but years of low new car sales for these cars has left the second hand market increasingly pricey making it viable for them to make them again but they don’t have the capacity and have become addicted to the high margins on SUVs and trucks (Even Lamborghini have an SUV which outsells it’s ‘normal’ cars and Ferrari is now going to release an SUV and damage it’s brand for the huge sales it promises).

    When the shit fits the fan in the coming recession there will be mass defaults on those F-150 loans, nobody to take new loans on them and absolutely nobody wanting to buy them with cash. And a bigger demand for small economical cars which they won’t have the infrastructure to make. Luxury makers like Ferrari might still be able to sell their SUVs, but Ford’s customers won’t be rolling in cash.

  10. First as tragedy, then as farce.

  11. AceDeuce says:

    Let me trot out my favorite “mortgage crisis” story from that period.

    TL:DR version:

    In 2008, a fiftysomething negro named Marvel Collins, Jr., who had a good union job, making 75k back then (plus his wife worked full time, as readers later wrote in to mention, since the paper didn’t)
    was having trouble making payments on his house. A balloon mortgage, all he could get due to his already shitty credit, had bumped his mortgage payment up to $1300 a month. Still shouldn’t have been that big a problem for a total household income well over 100k, right?

    Except Marvel was spending $1200 a month on lottery tickets. $40 a day-everyday.

    Can’t pay $1300/mo. mortgage because spending$1200/mo. on lottery. Hmmm. There’s a puzzler.

    He goes to see a counselor, and literally starts shucking and jiving and dancing before getting down to business. (I love how the counselor, probably a negress herself, “diagnoses” his problem. LOL.)

    From the article:

    Collins offers to dance for Samantha Williams, an ESOP predatory-lending intake specialist, who laughs and shakes her head as she pores over her client’s financial statements. After documenting his spending habits and quizzing him about household expenses — down to the amount the family spends weekly on toiletries — Williams diagnoses one of the reasons for Collins’ current financial distress.

    He doesn’t drink, smoke or golf. But he is addicted to the Ohio Lottery.

    He spends $40 daily on the lottery. It’s eating him alive. Williams asks him if he’s aware that he spends nearly $15,000 a year on the lottery.

    Collins says no, but defends the expenditure.

    “I’m desperate,” he says. “I need to hit a lick [win].”

    “It’s not like I’m going to go out and rob someone to get the money. I’d rather get it from the lottery,” he says with sincerity.

    • Thanks: epebble
    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian, Clyde
    • Replies: @fish
    , @duncsbaby
  12. dearieme says:

    That you should learn from your mistakes is just a dogma of the white patriarchy that no noble Person of Wokeness should be obliged to accommodate.

  13. usNthem says:

    I seem to very vaguely recall something like this was tried, oh, back in 2007 or so, if I’m not mistaken. I further vaguely remember it not working out so well for the housing/stock markets as well as the economy…

  14. Do you have to prove you’re black, or can one merely identify as black?

    I guess the real problem will be when the ADOS see all the money going to Nigerians.

  15. Renard says:

    Love your posts but you’ve got to stop inserting apostrophes in the possessive form of its! I’ll remind you again later.

    • Thanks: Gary in Gramercy
  16. megabar says:

    One thing we can all agree on: There just isn’t enough debt in modern America.

    So, let’s applaud this lending institution’s brave efforts to give needed debt to more people. Lending has a long and storied history of helping those best able to navigate its pros and cons; of acting unselfishly and taking minimal profit in lending; and above all, of responsibly taking losses without help when their debt holdings fail.

    • Thanks: Greta Handel, Renard
    • Replies: @Batman
  17. If they don’t do this what does the race profile on their loans look like?

    Also: all that money the Fed is dumping out there has to go someplace; it doesn’t get burned in a potlatch vanity bonfire.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  18. I smell more loan ‘forgiveness.’

  19. Anon[818] • Disclaimer says:

    Has it ever occurred to anyone that banks are trying to set up a way for banks to end up owning whole neighborhoods, and that any benefit to blacks and Hispanics is negligible? Maybe the bank is planning on owning entire neighborhoods ala Blackrock and just needs an excuse to do so. Then they’ll sell to more well-heeled whites once those houses are repossessed from non-paying blacks, whites who will gentrify those neighborhoods.

    • Replies: @Dani
  20. Batman says:

    The people who actually have skin in the game–unsecured lenders–strongly disagree that paying utilities and rent is an acceptable proxy for credit score and default risk. Never ever trust a bureaucrat’s opinion about risk over the judgment of the people actually using their own money to take on that risk.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
  21. Batman says:

    “One thing we can all agree on: There just isn’t enough debt in modern America.”

    Debt slavery sucks. Paying extortionate rents to the Wall Street hedge fund Jews who have bought up most of the local housing stock is worse.

  22. Dr. X says:

    Why bother with a mortage at all? Just cancel all black debt and give them a free house.

    That’s what they’re going to end up demanding anyway:

  23. How soon we forget. I don’t think BAC is too worried about the inevitable defaults. Plus this always seems to be a win win for a certain tribe who generates fees regardless of how it goes.

    The bailout makes Bank of America the biggest recipient of taxpayer money next to Citigroup as the government pours cash into the nation’s banks to plug holes left by bad loans. The worst housing crisis since the Great Depression and the worst recession in many years have hammered U.S. banks.

    The capital is on top of $25 billion that Bank of America previously got from the Treasury Department’s Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) in October and is the latest indication that authorities are still struggling to come to grips with the financial crisis that began about 18 months ago.

    In another bid to shore up banks in general, the government’s Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said it would propose lengthening the term on bank debt that it is prepared to guarantee to 10 years from three years. Banks must use the proceeds for new consumer lending.

  24. Too late. The housing market is already beginning to crash – at least in some markets.

    The vibrant can buy houses just in time to watch the prices fall 10% to 20%, or more.

    • Replies: @MGB
  25. OT Stereotypes are real

    Cumbria Police sorry for black drug dealer image in appeal leaflet

    Glasgow driver’s £100k cannabis stash found in Carlisle lockdown stop

    Drill rapper Daniel Olaloko jailed over county lines drug scam

  26. SFG says:

    Short BOA?

    • Replies: @Currahee
  27. I already fired BOA after the last housing debacle so I can’t do it again.

    The last straw for me was seeing all the executives in the VIP suites at the Super Bowl after the massive bailout.

    Never again!

  28. @Discordiax

    No, it’s not just that. Even for the most responsible of people, some will lose jobs or have some unexpected bills come up and get behind – because Americans just have this thing about living paycheck-to-paycheck and trying to live in real middle-class style when they simply aren’t anymore.

    It said zero down payment and, less importantly, zero closing costs. When a family gets behind and can’t realistically catch up, they will have absolutely nothing to lose by bailing out on the house. “Jingle-mail” is what they called it in ’07, as in, keys sent back to the bank in the mail – “it’s all yours.”

    So, the banks , haha, I kid, the taxpayers , I kid yet again, the grandchildren of the taxpayers will be on the hook, but they won’t have to pay anyway, at least not in dollars.

    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
  29. @Arclight

    Yes, Arclight, if not a written plan, that seems to be a good idea by general consensus of the Globalists. For Bardon and A.M., I don’t think there’s anything new with this in that regard. Affirmative Action has been unfair but “legal” for nearly 60 years. What’s the diff?

    • Agree: Old Prude
  30. Anon[401] • Disclaimer says:

    “The racial gap in homeownership rates in the U.S. remained substantial in 2020”.
    The racial gap in intelligence in the U.S. remained substantial in 2020.
    The racial gap in work ethic in the U.S. remained substantial in 2020.
    The racial gap in criminality in the U.S. remained substantial in 2020.

  31. This is a bait and switch. The only way home ownership builds equity is if the value of the home increases over the years. What is the likelihood of homes in a black neighborhood being worth more ten or twenty years from now than they were at time of sale? Given the downward price over time, those who buy into this program will have paid off the loan for however many years and then, when they go to sell, will take a loss.

    The problem is that most black homes lack a strong, knowledgeable, motivated male who is capable of doing the necessary maintenance work to keep the home in sellable condition. The value of everything black’s own depreciates faster than it would or should increase in value due to scarcity. The reason blacks can’t build equity is not only the ol’, “Lazy, shiftless and deliberately destructive” but the well-documented negative underlying conditions of life in a black neighborhood.

    Owning a home requires a tremendous commitment of time, intelligence and labor. If a homeowner is incapable, then he is better off depending upon a landlord to take care of things. As honest economists have pointed out, given all of the above, many or most blacks would be better served by renting.

    Again, it is incumbent upon the people who formulated this plan to explain in coherent, intelligible terms, how something valuable can be the product of or come out of that which is destructive of value.

    • Agree: fish
  32. OT intersection of Clownworld and iSteve:

    Yale receives $1 million to study ‘anti-racist problem’ of video game hair

    (Anglin points out that flowing, flaxen hair is too expensive graphically for mass computer modelling, so static African hairstyles actually have advantages for game designers.)

    BTW, I assumed the College Fix was just another default left media site aimed at youth, but the “more articles” banner their site served me was surprisingly based:

    Harvard ‘misinformation’ journal sued for defamation, false statements

    [Misinformation journalism is itself misinformation]

    College mental health problems skyrocketed during COVID: national study

    [Black guy with head down]

    Freshman Orientation Administrators are not your parents

    [Grow up faggots]

    Fired professor fights his way back into the classroom — and plans to keep fighting with new lawsuit

    [“UCF reinstates professor fired for ‘Black Privilege’ tweet”]


    Jonathan Draeger
    College Fix contributor Jonathan Draeger is a student at the University of Wisconsin, Madison pursuing a degree in Economics and a certificate in German. He is interested in investigating economic matters and explaining different current events through an economic lens.

    Obviously a neo-nazi.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
  33. As the saying goes, “This doesn’t end well.”

  34. Mr. Anon says:

    OT – German foreign minister promises to back Ukraine, no matter what German voters want:

    Baerbock made the remarkable comments during an event in Prague yesterday organized by the NGO Forum 2000.

    “If I give the promise to people in Ukraine – ‘We stand with you, as long as you need us’ – then I want to deliver. No matter what my German voters think, but I want to deliver to the people of Ukraine,” she said.

    To paraphrase Clemenceau: Democracy is too important to be left to the people.

    • Replies: @tyrone
  35. Currahee says:

    Banksters at it again.
    Don’t think these BofA guys are stupid. They gain wokie points galore, collect origination fees, package and sell of the loans.
    No risk: any losses on the bundled loan packages will be covered by govt….printer goes “brrrr.”
    Rinse, repeat.

  36. Curle says:
    @Almost Missouri

    It’s legal until the courts address it. Been paying attention to the affirmative action in college cases started when? Late ‘70s? Remember Sandra Day O’Conner and her justice can wait a few years argument which was eerily similar to the communist ‘temporary’ transition to rule by the proletariat?

  37. Alfa158 says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The oligarchs and kritarchs who rule our society decide on an ad-hoc basis what is legal and illegal.
    Imagine you and I are playing poker. At the end of each round when we show our hands I reserve the power to change the order of poker hands, and I can even invent new hands no one ever heard of. For example, that seven of hearts, king of diamonds, three of clubs, jack of diamonds and six of clubs I throw down is something called a “Historical Compensation” and beats a royal flush. You notice that I somehow win every single hand.

    • LOL: fish
    • Replies: @Liza
  38. Currahee says:

    No, invest…see my previous.

  39. Anon[310] • Disclaimer says:

    Didn’t Bank of America buy Countrywide, one of the largest subprime lenders, for pennies on the dollar? You would think they are well aware where subprime lending leads, eventually.

    By the way, there are ways for companies to make a profit off of BIPOCs who are bad credit risks. But you have to put up with a lot of name calling: slum lord, loan shark, mobster, etc. Most companies couldn’t handle the bad PR.

    • Replies: @Currahee
  40. @Discordiax

    There are conditions attached, so I suspect that this batch of loans will be fine. Paying your utility bills and paying your rent is a reasonable proxy for credit score.
    And I’m sure these “certain neighborhoods” are neighborhoods with shall we say challenges.

    Zero down, no credit score home loans are going to inflate the prices for housing stock in these neighborhoods. So the people who can’t even get a loan through a zero down, no credit score program are going to be much further from purchasing a home there. The early demand for these loans will spur more of them and more lenders to offer them while prices have already been inflated.

    One of the few benefits of these neighborhoods in the market is that houses can be within reach even for low income cash buyers. I’m talking about houses which are valued at $7,000 or $15,000 because 90% of the population would live in a tent in the woods before living in those neighborhoods.

    The interests which already scooped up this housing stock in those neighborhoods are going to make a killing. I imagine that they’ll get fresh coats of paint and appliances first in order to bump those loans way up. Look for some scion of a BoA executive who scooped up swaths of low value real estate via entities in areas which would benefit from this program.

    This is a fundamental reverse of cause and effect in these people’s ideology riddled minds – they believe that people are financially responsible and well off because they own homes, rather than that people who are financially responsible and who are likely to have the habits to accumulate wealth are better able to afford to own homes. Future time orientation matters a lot here where there is a standard thirty year mortgage – in my considerable experience people who probably shouldn’t own homes (and who wouldn’t absent programs like this and general ideology-enforced lender stupidity) have low future time orientation and tend to think once they’ve moved in that it is “my house” from day one. A substantial proportion of these people will just take that for granted and start defaulting in years one through three (at which time they will wail about the bank foreclosing on “my house” in which they’ve accumulated no equity).

    It’s also the case that there is only a marginal difference in lifestyle between someone who is used to living in subsidized housing in the ‘hood (and therefore taking a roof for granted) and that same person who has purchased a low value home. In many cases they will experience a net loss in disposable cash on hand, a situation which BoA must expect will be overcome by the prospect that the buyer will eventually own an (expected but not guaranteed) appreciated asset in thirty years free and clear which the buyer will consider “family wealth” to be bequeathed to children.

    • Thanks: Cato
  41. “eligibility will be based on factors like timely rent payments and on-time utility bill, phone and auto insurance payments”

    So it’s not happening after all!

    • Replies: @Rob McX
  42. @Achmed E. Newman

    It said zero down payment and, less importantly, zero closing costs.

    Dropping the down payment makes it easier to get unqualified people in. But the closing costs are added on at the end of the loan, meaning you pay interest on it for around 29 years before you even make a single payment towards the principal. I’d consider that pretty significant.

    Back in the 90s I applied for a loan from Fannie Mae. The wife and I both made decent money, and I wanted the loan paid back in 15 years. When we came in to sign the paperwork, it was for a 30 year loan, and they said it couldn’t be changed at that point. I got up and walked out. The wife was devastated. But the agent came running out and caught us in the parking lot. Suddenly, the loan terms could be easily changed.

    I’ll refrain from further comment.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @anon
  43. Ben Kurtz says:

    I’d say that they’re just kicking the “Racist” can down the road, until the foreclosures start and people Notice that it’s disproportionately People of Excellence who find themselves being foreclosed upon.

    But who am I kidding?

    When these loans enter distress the bank will just ask for a gov’t bailout, which they’ll get on condition they *don’t* foreclose upon or dispossess the delinquent borrowers.

    No, the “Racist” bill will come due when the delinquent People of Excellence let these properties fall into ruin – the bank is somehow Racist for not throwing good money after bad to maintain the properties behind the non-performing loans.

    The banks will then unload everything to some gov’t entity.

    When you are housing People of Excellence, all roads lead to Pruitt-Igoe.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Thanks: epebble
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    , @kaganovitch
  44. Once again, conservative white man is reminded of his embarrassing record of worshipping capital and those who hold it.

    • Agree: Houston 1992
  45. The banks will then unload everything to some gov’t entity.

    Yup–that is how this story ends.

    But–part of the fun along the way is when the city tries to collect property taxes from the lender who turns out not to be the lender because they sold the loan to another entity who sold it to another entity who included it as part of a financial instrument that nobody is claiming since it is now worthless…

    2008-2010 was fun, fun, fun!

  46. if there was a general population of Indians flooding in here by the millions, DC would need to do all these projects and programs for them too. so be glad people from India and Pakistan can’t just walk to America.

  47. @Altai

    Lamborghini SUV “…. which isn’t even a Lamborghini”.- Patrick Boyle

  48. Anon[263] • Disclaimer says:


    This is yet another example of something that is out and out illegal, but nobody has the nerve to challenge it.

  49. Perversely, I can see a certain rationale here. Mortgage rates have gone up and will only go up more as the Fed pushes up their rates to fight inflation. Housing prices have not yet fallen to compensate for the increased monthly payments. There’s a certain class of buyers, largely minorities, who are unable to make the required down payment or closing costs. Bank of America makes nothing off of them and won’t for the foreseeable future. However, there’s a (perhaps very short) window when BoA can lock some of these potential buyers into a large loan at moderate rates now before the Fed induces a hard landing. BoA even gets to look good in the press while doing it.

    This will of course end in tears.

  50. Demographics is Destiny…

    So you can’t go crying like little a girl like Tucker Carlson does about the violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act….

    They can do whatever they want to do because of the demographic shift….including at gunpoint forcing you into chattel slavery on Ophra Winfrey’s Plantation…

    Demographics is Destiny

  51. @Ben Kurtz

    From Wiki: “Pruitt–Igoe has come to represent some of the failures of urban renewal, public-policy planning, and public housing. In the years immediately following its demolition, the project’s failure was widely attributed to architectural flaws that created a hostile and unsafe environment….

    By 1958, just four years after the opening of the project, deteriorating conditions were already evident. Elevator breakdowns and vandalism were cited as major problems—Yamasaki [the architect] later lamented that he “never thought people were that destructive”

    Well, no, Mr. Yamasaki, “people” aren’t that destructive. Negroes are.

    The Chinese live in very similar units today and experience none of the “deteriorating conditions” or “architectural flaws” that create a “hostile and unsafe environment”. Those malevolent architectural flaws should be jailed for oppressing POC.

  52. So a black guy buys a house for 500k, gets a zero down loan.

    White guy buys the house next door. Has to come up with 20% down to get a 400k loan.

    How long before the media tells us this is a problem? See, white guy now has 100k equity in his house! Black guy has none. Absolute zero equity.

    That’s racist! Black guy needs his equity!

  53. Goatweed says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Gail Heriot at Instapudit sees a lawsuit coming.

    Ms Heriot is a member of the United States Commission on Civil Rights.

  54. Here’s another.

    Here we go Again.

    Involuntary Defenestration.

    I’m gonna miss them when they’re all gone.

  55. @Altai

    The scale of the Auto-loan problem is far bigger than is admitted.

    Consumers’ incomes were temporarily high as a result of debt forbearance, pandemic stimulus checks, enhanced unemployment benefits and PPP loans, the report says. The auto dealer says he bought a Bentley, McLaren and two Aston Martins from two buyers, now in default, who used PPP money for down payments.

    “Everybody thought the free gravy train would never end,” he said. He told Barron’s he has “never seen so many people making $2,500 a month owing $1,000 a month in car payments.”

    This is why Steve should hold his water when it comes to re-car-ing.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  56. @Veteran Aryan

    Thanks for the story, V.A. My similar anecdote is that I had 2 banks on the line for the mortgage/closing business. I only had to pay about a coupla’ hundred bucks in duplicate (assessment, I think) to keep them both working on this, as I ran about town for a month doing this and that for them. (This was well before all of the easy loan business – I put 20% down.)

    Well, sure enough one of the banks wimped out last minute – “We’re not gonna be able to do the closing on Tuesday, because…” “No problem, I’ve got another bank that can do it. See ya’ later!” Felt good, man, except we didn’t say it like that back then.

    • Replies: @Pixo
  57. SafeNow says:

    “Applicants do not have to be Black or Hispanic to qualify for the product, a bank representative said.”

    I clicked on the link at the top of Steve’s essay, and the quote above comes from that link. Thus, this seems to answer the question of how can this be legal.

  58. tyrone says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Too the Germans ,think of Greta as you freeze.

  59. MGB says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Too late. The housing market is already beginning to crash

    exactly we are already at the tail end of another real estate bubble, homes in my region were up to recently selling at 10-20% over asking price on average. many people have simply given up looking now, as they decided they’ve had enough of being 1 of 50 making offers, the interest rate hike killing demand for many more who now won’t qualify for a mortgage. that won’t stop isteve from blaming ‘the blacks’ as this development floats downstream in the midst of all the other fecal matter that’s been swirling around the system for the past few years. the problem with banking is the banks, the most fined industry, outside of pharmaceuticals maybe, not some fantastical pressure to fix discrimination in the the housing market. you can pretend ‘woke’ is compelling the banks to do something, but it never stopped the mortgage companies from coming up with schemes to facilitate the foreclosure of homes, and Obama and his Justice Department did fuck all to stop it. once there is a nickel to be made, ‘woke’ doesn’t mean shit.

  60. Here We Go Again

    The Independent’s man in Texas, Gino Spocchia (who looks about 14) is on the beat with more “here we go again” stories. Sorry if you’re hit with a paywall– I don’t subscribe, either.

    This event is highly suspicious. Why would Texans care if these fruits guard their tea party with legal rifles? Something else about them is causing the ruckus, and it would be nice (and professional) of Gino to tell us what it is. He did detect a Proud Boy with the drag group, which makes it ever so more suspicious.

    Conservatives furious as armed men turn up to protect drag performers at Texas brunch event

    Would this work in Ireland?

    Woman Irish dances when doing sobriety test in Florida DUI stop

    This looks a lot like my stepbrother and his wife, who live out there. But I know it isn’t. They’d never stoop so low as to attend an As game. They’re Giants’ ticket-holders.

    Pictured: Couple accused of sex act at Oakland A’s baseball game

    • Replies: @Curle
  61. Did you see the part where BofA is throwing in grants of $10,000 to $15,000 to these “borrowers?

  62. Carol says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    It was her real hair! How unlikely is that?

    • LOL: Renard
  63. stillCARealist [AKA "ForeverCARealist"] says:

    It’s=it is
    Its=possessive, think of “his” vs. “he’s”

    Let’s (Let us) all learn this formula. It’s (It is) not too much trouble when you get accumstomed to its (poss.) usage.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    , @Macumazahn
  64. AndrewR says:

    Credit scores are overrated but why would whites not be eligible for these loans? One unstated reason is because whites would be more likely to qualify for them in the first place. Either way, this type of thing only helps to disenfranchise whites and increase racial division, which of course is the point.

    • Agree: Richard B, Renard
  65. Pixo says:

    Very unlikely they will be securitized.

    • Agree: Liza, AnotherDad
    • Replies: @HammerJack
    , @Cutter
  66. Pixo says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    VA’s bank was trying to scam him. Unless the income violates debt to income ratios, you can always switch back and forth between 15 and 30 year terms with a reputable lender.

    As for a backup lender, a mortgage that prequalifies only falls apart maybe 1 in 15 times. And a good percentage of that 1 in 15 would be something that would also tank the loan with the backup.

    Where a backup I think makes the most sense is if your income or property has some small wrinkles. You do one loan with a tiny online lender with very low rate and the backup with a big more expensive bank with local operations.

  67. Liza says:

    Kind of like Fischer Random Chess?

  68. Anonymous[954] • Disclaimer says:

    How would I go about finding the securities into which these particular mortgages were bundled?

    Just start with the stock of the bank issuing the new credit scheme. Bank of America has traditionally been most aligned with Satan since its inception. Wells Fargo carries the same status.

    As always, the joker in the deck is quantitative easing, or full blown government intervention, so trying to time it via options is very tricky.

    Keep an eye on it, and get ready to short it on the open market, just like last time.

  69. Currahee says:

    You forgot: “Predatory Lender.”

  70. Anonymous[954] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill Jones

    This is why Steve should hold his water when it comes to re-car-ing.

    Indeed. The car I bought two years used, and is now 7 years old, I can sell for a thousand bucks more than I paid for it today. Never seen that happen for an average car in my lifetime.

    It’s funny. The people with the most time on their hands, and the most energy to engage in protests that could change things, are the 20-somethings, and they accept all this insanity because they have nothing else to compare it to.

    I’ve got about 30 good years left on this planet, no kids, and it’s very clear to me how horrible life will be by the time I’m ready to check out. I don’t care, because I’m financially secure, and it’s not my world anymore. So listening to the amazingly ignorant and arrogant 20-somethings go on about transgenderism, or black lives mattering, as their world rapidly deconstructs is comedic to me, rather than tragic.

    I was standing in line at Whole Foods the other day, and a little fat girl with purple hair was checking me out, and shared that she was an enthusiastic communist, although she said it in a way that indicated she didn’t want to offend me.

    I said, “you know, I’m an older person. I’ve got one wheel in the ditch. It’s just gonna get worse. No money worries, thanks to capitalism, so I don’t care what happens next, but I honestly hope you to achieve your dream of turning this country communist, if only for the comedic spectacle. I’ll be sitting front row, cheering you on, so you go, girl!”

    She blushed a little and thanked me. Support while laughing at her was still support, in her mind.

    Finding the funny is the only way to go for sane boomers.

    It’s like I’m the Roadrunner, and most 20-somethings, and most of the rest of the world are the Coyote.

    I’m done with being socially relevant. I do not give a fuck.

    Bring on the millions of low IQ illegals! It’ll take a generation for the real fun to begin, and I’m patient. And it’s not an ultimate worry, since I can afford a live-in registered nurse when I start getting frail and loopy. So for now, just runnin’ down the road is my idea of havin’ fun.

    I only want to see Biden stroke out during his speech today, not so much because he’s a waste of existential space, but because I think it would be fucking hilarious!

    Imagine he strokes out, and then Kamala is stuck being President!

    That’s funnier than anything Trump has ever thought up yet! 😂

    • Thanks: JR Ewing
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  71. Thoughts says:

    If you are white and you are not saying that you are hispanic and just putting on some tanner ala Love Island

    you are an idiot

  72. @Pixo

    Yeah, but it served my purpose, Pixo. I wasn’t up for this stuff dragging on for more weeks. I wanted to move into the house, and, when it came down to it, that first bank didn’t treat me as if they gave a damn. The co-signing of this loan was another, more humorous story. It involved 2 forgeries on one piece of paper.

    • Replies: @Pixo
  73. @Jimbo in OPKS

    I’d say both times as farce, Jimbo. Steve could have told you, and I could have told you.

  74. @Emil Nikola Richard

    Also: all that money the Fed is dumping out there has to go someplace; it doesn’t get burned in a potlatch vanity bonfire.

    It will if you guys write your Congressman and urge him to vote for my ACTUAL Inflation Reduction Act.

    We can’t use the acronym WIN, due to worries about trademark infringement. This one’s more honest, call it “Burn the money, burn the FED, burn the FED Governors and then horsewhip everyone in Washington, FS driving around with government tags.” Yeah, I gotta shorten it up for the bumper stickers …

  75. NYS Gov.hochul rode into Buffalo a few weeks back to announce she found another $50 Million for Buffalo’s East Side, which is predominately black. Included are grants of up to $30,000 to be used as a down payment on a house. Must live in house for 5 years and the note is forgiven in 10 years. Guess she didn’t know blacks could now get a home mortgage without a down payment. The Dems are falling over each other to give money away. I once found $1.37 in my dryer, never found $50 million like politicians do all the time.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  76. @Pixo

    In a sane world, sure. But in ours there is inadequate protection for investors who end up buying these products in funds for their 401k’s and who trust their advisors to provide competent advice.

    Sure, you can say they should do better research on their own, but as a practical matter most people are busy with their lives—jobs, families, etc. It’s a situation ripe for abuse, so abuse does happen. Note I’m not claiming a solution.

  77. Malcolm Y says:

    Their special credit card is accepted in brothels. It’s the Bang Americard.

  78. JR Ewing says:

    When you think about all the debt floating around and the fact that no one actually owns anything and banks and giant corporations own all the debt and the only reason people go to work is so that they can pay on their debt… it’s just a little bit depressing.

  79. Alden says:

    So how much cash, tax deductions relaxation of federal regulations etc is BofA getting out of this program? Hopefully only tens rather than hundreds of millions from the taxpayers federal general funds.

    The banks got money for hiring black tellers decades ago. And still get federal money for every non White they employ and promote.

    All large businesses big corporations get those subsidizes for hiring non Whites non White sub contractors, even renting in non White neighborhoods . Along with the carrot there’s the stick. Fines for hiring White workers and sub contractors

    Overall, property values rise. Except in places like Detroit St Louis Newark Jackson miss. Atlanta NOLA Chicago Memphis Milwaukee are very black impacted and still thrive. Jackson Capitol of Miss doesn’t even have water any more. Biloxi Miss thrives.

    East Palo Alto* Inglewood, South central and Watts Ca turned civilized very quickly when the demographics changed.

    And one never knows when TPTB get sick of coddling their black pets and replacing them with civilized Hispanics Asians and or gay men.

    * designated black maid’s neighborhood. Designated maid’s neighborhoods all over America. Our greatest idiot intelligentsia have spent the last century puzzling over why Hispanic Slavic British Irish German Mexican designated maid’s neighborhoods have low crime rates, property values hold and are reasonably pleasant places to live.

    But the black designated maids neighborhoods swiftly become high crime low school test scores dumps within a couple decades. Tis a puzzlement.

  80. Didn’t this used to be called redlining? Making or not making loans in specific areas based on the race of the residents?

    As I recall, it was supposed to be something that evil white people did.

  81. @Ben Kurtz

    When you are housing People of Excellence, all roads lead to Pruitt-Igoe.


  82. Rob McX says:

    What about if you never defaulted on phone or utility bill payments in the last 20 years because you were in prison all of that time?

  83. JimB says:

    Elevator breakdowns and vandalism were cited as major problems—Yamasaki [the architect] later lamented that he “never thought people were that destructive”

    Yamasaki also designed the WTC Twin Towers. I wonder what he lamented when Jihadis collapsed them with a couple of modest size jetliners.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
  84. syonredux says:

    Meanwhile, in the UK:

    1 death, 8 sexual assaults as hundreds arrested during London’s Notting Hill Carnival

    London’s Notting Hill Carnival turned deadly Monday when a 21-year-old man was stabbed after more than 200 arrests were made during the annual Caribbean festival.

    The event, which took place from Aug. 27 to 29, attracts hundreds of thousands of attendees on the streets of England’s capital, and features live music, performances and entertainment.

    The carnival was back this year for the first time since 2019 due to the pandemic, but this year’s spectacle was plagued by death, sexual assault and hundreds of arrests.

    Bristol rapper fatally stabbed at Notting Hill carnival was due to become father
    Pregnant girlfriend of 21-year-old Takayo Nembhard, who performed as TKorStretch, tells of heartbreak over death

    A “kind-hearted and loving” rapper who was due to become a father was stabbed to death at Notting Hill carnival.

    Takayo Nembhard, known as TKorStretch, was at the event with his sister and friends when he was attacked about 8pm on Monday.

    The Metropolitan police said hundreds of people had been in the immediate vicinity of the crime scene in Ladbroke Grove, west London, as detectives launched a murder investigation.

    Can’t really say that this evokes the London of Dickens and Thackeray…

    • Replies: @prosa123
    , @Rob McX
  85. prosa123 says:

    There’s definitely some ample norkage on display.

  86. Tangentially related: a story about intersectionalism, insofar as several iSteve themes intersect (black women’s hair and the tendency of African-Americans to get jobs in transportation):

    Anyone learning that an airport worker died when her hair got stuck in a luggage machine, and who does not automatically conclude that the deceased (RIP) was black, is not a noticer.

  87. Legba says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The legal doctrine of ‘We say so’ goes back to English common law

  88. anon[834] • Disclaimer says:
    @Veteran Aryan

    If it was the same fixed interest rate, you should’ve just taken the 30 year. Sheesh.

    If you wanted to pay it off in 15 years, just pay on it as if it were a 15 year (use a mortgage calculator to calculate). As far as I can tell, you just needlessly restricted your financial flexibility… and all while thinking “yeah, I showed those mother f’ers!!!”

    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
  89. Anonymous[278] • Disclaimer says:

    On Biden’s Speech:

    The speech and poll-tested Ultra-MAGA rhetoric is really just a warning to any true outsider who would ever again threaten the career politicians and their paymasters’ stranglehold on this Nation.

    “Don’t even think about doing this again. We own this country. And we own you.”

  90. Curle says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Per Oakland couple, paper reports:

    ““We have initiated an investigation,” police added. “However, the parties have not been identified and no one has been cited/arrested at this time.”

    Though the parties have not been identified, others in the know contend that off duty officers have been seen at the home of Ms Uwanta Blasen who bears a striking resemblance to the woman in the video.

  91. @JimB

    Yamasaki also designed the WTC Twin Towers. I wonder what he lamented when Jihadis collapsed them with a couple of modest size jetliners.

    He didn’t lament at all because he was long dead by then.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @epebble
  92. Cutter says:

    They were last time.

    • Replies: @Pixo
  93. fish says:

    “It’s not like I’m going to go out and rob someone to get the money. I’d rather get it from the lottery,” he says with sincerity.

    That is the feel good story of the day! A brother in trouble who says he’d prefer to not murder a female Asian dentist to get him out from under his financial woes. I think we’ve made real progress tonight.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Dmon
  94. Bugg says:

    Can I wager on how long until the MFM is filled with stories of minorities complaining they had NO IDEA their variable rate no money down mortgage could go up.

  95. @ThreeCranes

    Well, no, Mr. Yamasaki, “people” aren’t that destructive. Negroes are.

    Yamasaki’s original design was a mix of low- and high-rise structures. Had they gone with that, enough of the more civilized blacks, the tasteful tenth, might have stayed and exerted some control. (Black neighborhoods come in a wide range of stabilities.) Instead, the housing authority was cheap and asked for it all to be high-rise. Nobody with any sense or ambition would have wanted to live there.

    Bad architecture doesn’t always mean bad architects. Often it points to bad clients. A classic case is seen with Yamasaki’s customers at the time Pruitt went down– Nelson and David Rockefeller.

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
  96. e says:

    Can anyone with knowledge of the law explain why a person of another race couldn’t file suit if he goes to that bank, applies for that program and is turned down because he is not black or Hispanic.

    Does a person have to PROVE he is “black” or “Hispanic”?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  97. @kaganovitch

    Yamasaki also designed the WTC Twin Towers. I wonder what he lamented when Jihadis collapsed them with a couple of modest size jetliners.

    He didn’t lament at all because he was long dead by then.

    Yamasaki did a lot of work in rapidly-developing Saudi Arabia, including the Monetary Authority (central bank) Building. His work was mostly bland modernism, but with some nice flourishes around the edges almost as an afterthought. (His hometown masterpiece, the Rainier Tower, is an extreme example of this.)

    Mohammed Atta trained in architecture in Egypt and Germany. He had a visceral hatred of what modern skyscrapers were doing to his native Egypt and the rest of the Middle East. (Ironically, he sought comfort in well-preserved Aleppo, a city nearly a third Christian.)

    Perhaps Atta was aware of Yamasaki’s central bank edifice, but there is little doubt that his mentor, Osama bin Laden, was familiar with it.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  98. Dmon says:

    This is the feel good story of the year, possibly the decade.

    “Production for an Apple+ TV series starring Natalie Portman and Moses Ingram stopped Friday in Baltimore when drug dealers threatened the film crew, saying they would return and shoot people if they weren’t paid $50,000, police said…
    It takes place in 1960s Baltimore, “where an unsolved murder pushes a housewife and mother to reinvent herself as an investigative journalist and sets her on a collision course with a hard-working woman juggling motherhood, many jobs, and a passionate commitment to advancing Baltimore’s Black progressive agenda,” according to the Department of Commerce.”

  99. @anon

    If it was the same fixed interest rate, you should’ve just taken the 30 year.

    And pay interest on the principal for an extra fifteen years? That works out to more than 150% of the fifteen year loan. Why not just burn the money?

    If you wanted to pay it off in 15 years, just pay on it as if it were a 15 year

    Penalties. And once again, a larger price tag with no additional value to me.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  100. Pixo says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    If the second appraisal was only $200, probably before the internet lender era?

    They online lenders really do save you a lot of money if the property and your income are squeaky clean and cookie-cutter. Upload your docs online, chat with some CSRs 2000 miles away, and you pay $150 less a month for 30 years than if you used anyone local.

    Increasingly they let you skip appraisals for refis.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  101. @Buffalo Joe

    NYS Gov.hochul

    She has her own domain now?

    • Replies: @Pixo
  102. Pixo says:

    There was massive demand to buy subprime mortgage securities back then. There hasn’t been since.

    Conventional mortgages are very dominant and require moderately good credit and down payments, plus PMI if the downpayment is less than 20%.

    The main non-conventional loan market are jumbo and underwriting is extremely conservative and banks tend to keep the loans in their portfolios.

    To have subprime securitization again, we’d need to sort of get the whole gang back together and a critical mass of supply and demand.

    Oddly there is plenty of securitized subprime auto loans right now. They have been good investments since poor people have been showered with stimmie checks, wage inflation, and rising used car values means they prioritize paying their car loan over other bills.

  103. Pixo says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “ She has her own domain now?”

    Yes, the State of New York.


    • Replies: @Clyde
  104. J.Ross says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Bin Laden also, his family did concrete projects for the Kingdom, and Osama had worked on at least one of those.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  105. Clyde says:

    Indeed! And I actually learned this in my latter years via my internet transactions.
    My real internet bugaboo is champing at the bit and jive vs jibe.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  106. Clyde says:

    Guv/witch Hochul… 64 and holding …fairly well. Well enough to dictate her loser Dem bullshit onto her NY State subjects. Governor Gretchen Whitmer is her idol.

  107. epebble says:

    If he were still alive, he might have felt ashamed how he did not foresee a jet full of kerosene colliding with his steel towers. Might have said “never thought kerosene is that destructive”.

  108. @Pixo

    I appreciate the advice. We won’t need any of this though, as we have no loans and will keep it that way.

  109. @ThreeCranes

    About the Chinese: The common areas don’t get much care there either, as it’s not the residents’s job, same as the outside of their detached houses. However, they aren’t vandalized, just left to get dirty. A fairly new 8-story building I stayed in, less than 10 y/o, looked like it was 30 y/o. Nobody destroyed the elevators, because there WERE NONE. Ha!

  110. duncsbaby says:

    “Hit a lick,” is ghetto slang for robbing someone. Neat.

  111. @Veteran Aryan

    I’ve never had a loan that charged penalties for making larger payments than the schedule.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
  112. @Inverness

    Evictions of blacks happen all the time. The MSM just won’t cover it at all or in a way that makes the original scheme seem like a bad idea. Depending on the political needs of the moment, there may be a “greedy lenders” spin.

  113. @Renard

    Autocorrect on my phone automatically substitutes it’s for its. I had to uncorrect it right there!

    • Replies: @Renard
  114. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Somebody didn’t tell the conveyor not to touch the black lady’s hair.

    Most likely her supervisor was terrified by the major media, CROWN Act, etc. from touching/saying anything about this fairly obvious workplace hazard.

    Having your scalp ripped off is a small price to pay to uphold the nostrums of liberalism.

  115. Renard says:

    Same here actually. Autocorrect is like having a semi-retarded person continually correcting your writing. Love it. Just love it.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  116. Ralph L says:

    It used to be the interest on auto loans was front-loaded, not simple interest like a mortgage, so paying off early often meant you paid more than your interest rate. I don’t know if that’s still true.

  117. The most important thing to keep in mind after reading this article is that there is no such thing as “The Great Replacement”, folks.

    It’s a figment of the fevered, racist imaginations of White Supremacist conspiracy theorists. Period.

    It has absolutely no basis in reality.

  118. @J.Ross

    My mother came from a family of bricklayers in Queens. Does that mean a connection to the Trumps?

  119. @Renard

    Wayne Allensworth referred to Russia as “she” throughout his book on the country. He said the first reader at the publisher changed all of them to “it”.

  120. Dani says:

    We can certainly hope that this is, indeed, the case.

  121. @Pixo

    You can also pretty much pay off a 30 year loan in 15 years by making one extra payment each year which goes straight to reducing the principal.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  122. Easily done when any losses that The Bank of AINO will be immediately erased by the Fed, yes? It’ll be a cinch that it will be just like in 2007-2008 when, despite most of the country wanting the brink-walkers to be wiped out, we got TARP shoved down our throats. Too Big To Fail redux, now enhanced with that special Racial Equity Sauce.

  123. Rob McX says:

    Here’s something else you wouldn’t have seen in the days of Dickens or Thackeray.

    Road rage with a spade. London is one big carnival these days.

    • Replies: @Curle
    , @Anonymous
  124. AndrewR says:

    It looks like they base it on the perceived ethnic makeup of the neighborhood the house is in. So in theory, anyone could use this program to get a loan for a house in a “black” or “Hispanic” neighborhood. But I don’t want to live in a poor black neighborhood and very few other people do either, including blacks (who routinely move to white neighborhoods as soon as they can afford it)

  125. AndrewR says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    My dad’s neighbor has been in his house for 35 years but hasn’t paid it off because he keeps refinancing. His explanation is that he can use the money he saves from refinancing to invest in lucrative bonds/stocks/whatever. He worked in finance and he tried to explain it to me but most of it went over my head. I am very good with math but when it comes to money my anxiety kicks in, so I tend to avoid thinking about anything having to do with anything finance related. It’s especially strange because my dad basically lived for financial stuff despite being considerably dumber (and poorer) than his neighbor. And my dad never abused me when it came to money or my knowledge thereof (except maybe to spoil me with it)

  126. @stillCARealist

    Things don’t own things, hence “it’s” means “it is” – nothing else.

    • Disagree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  127. Curle says:
    @Rob McX

    Might have seen it following the relocation of negroes from the colonies to UK following the Revolution. Preceding the relocation of said negroes to Sierra Leone for the explicit purpose of removing them from Britain proper.

  128. @Macumazahn

    Things have properties or parts. They possess those properties or parts.

    Ex: “I couldn’t start the car because its battery was dead.”

  129. @Anonymous

    That’s funnier than anything Trump has ever thought up yet!

    What if Trumps plan is to shuffle the Camela off and slide Nancy the Lush onto the Throne?

  130. AceDeuce says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    the housing authority was cheap and asked for it all to be high-rise. Nobody with any sense or ambition would have wanted to live there.

    Why haven’t all of the high-rises on Central Park West in NYC or on the Gold Coast of Chicago become disaster areas that are rightly spurned by people with “sense or ambition”?

  131. Fair enough, but less than helpful for those who struggle to get it right.
    “The car’s battery is dead.” “Yes, its battery is dead.”

  132. Rob says:

    The lending program seems custom-designed to ef over black borrowers. We are at a housing market peak-ish, the fed is going to slow the economy, and lots of non profit-center employees are going to lose their jobs. DIE employees might be the first to go. I’ve read that “equity” issues are taking up a huge chunk of managers’ time. They won’t like that.

    People who are not financially literate (and many who are) might not understand that “Fed raising rates” means “unemployment goes up.” Heck, they might not even know “raising rates” means interest rates go up.

    Unemployment swells and inflation does not ease? That could be really bad. I guess we’ll see if “stealing elections” is really a thing.

    Totally off-topic, I’ve realized there is a fantastic market for new vaccines. They have money, they’ve proven that they are willing to take risks, and they are exposed to more diseases than average. Gay dudes! Seriously, excluding boutique personalized cancer vaccines, vaccines have to be cheap because the people who really need them are really poor. Plus, vaccines are fantastic medicine, so companies face different economics producing them. Children are the market for any vaccine moving forward after the initial backlog of willing adults gets their shot, and people are leery of any side effects children have. The diseases we vaccinate against are rare (because we vaccinate) so the side effect profile of a new vaccine has to be really mild. The requirements are basically “so mild the vaccine won’t work for a big chunk of people who get it, and the ones it does work for will need boosters..” what we did for COVID was great. Don’t get me wrong, vaccines in months were wonderful! But, we should have had a 2 (or 3) pronged strategy. An mRNA vaccine for later, an mRNA vaccine for the pandemic phase, and a replicon vaccine (the mRNA codes for the antigen (makes a lot) and rna-dependent rna polymerase (makes a little) to amplify the mRNA, so we could do dose-sparing, smaller doses of mRNA. To my knowledge (nucleic acid vaccines aren’t really my thing) we did not know how poorly immunogenic the vaccines would be, though maybe we should have suspected?

    Oh, that was a long digression, but vaccines needing to be mild does not necessarily apply to gay men so strongly? Babies wouldn’t be getting vaccines for things that might turn into std pandemics later! If you are an early adopter of a vaccine, you likely have some disposable income. Maybe live-attenuated vaccination (following genotyping or even sequencing to be sure you don’t have a genetic immunodeficiency. I think live attenuated is a necessity. I’ll bet semen has antibodies in it (I would put them there if I were the Evolution Fairy) and I was wrong. Semen has igG antibodies. These certainly come from plasma? Vaginal tract also does igG antibodies. Maybe regular old intramuscular vaccination will work fine. Still be nice to have some antibody on the skin.


    The “disease is rare” thing applies to whatever disease now, but a new bug can hit gay men really hard, really fast. If gay men chose to get pre-vaccinated, they probably are more concerned about possible stds than side effects from a shot/pill?

    Is there any Latin American country that’s a big travel destination for gays? Maybe vaccines don’t need approval here, Belize is fine? Come to think of it, though. Semen has IgG, so intramuscular vaccines would work fine for anything in semen. mRNA have good economics, but someone bringing a replicon vaccine to market would be awesome. Oh, gi tract needs antibodies. Oral/nasal it is for sterilizing immunity, but still, high antibody is semen must protect the receptive partner at least a bit?

    Thing is, like i said before, “std” is a strategy diseases use, viruses can switch strategies, though it is rare. It seems that “gay std” is a new niche, so there are lots of viruses that are going to take it. Maybe when there’s a recession gays won’t travel so much? Diseases would spread more slowly that way.

    Has anyone done done a “DWAS” or “IWAS”? Test for antibodies for a bunch of infections, and see what correlates with what. There was a paper about an algal virus associated with cognitive deficits a while back. Is algae in your throat going to make you dumber? Um, maybe? Could maybe do IWAS with T cells as well. See what previous infections correlate with. If this is unexplored, it could be big. Like, this could have discovered the recent discovery that Epstein-Bar causes multiple sclerosis. There could be specific colds that correlate strongly with heart disease or arthritis.

    Really be interesting to know what chronic diseases gay men get disproportionately. Gays are really social, so it would not surprise me if they get exposed to even colds and enteroviruses more frequently. But, lots of stds cause (mostly) cryptic infection and later cancers. It’s totally possible that gay men will have serious chronic diseases more frequently. No one’s worried about this because they don’t really believe biology is real and promiscuous gay men have not lived to old age. Lots of std-caused problems in old gay men are likely assigned to HIV when other viruses caused them.

    Seems clear to me that a) we should study gay men to learn more about chronic infection-caused diseases b) warn gay men that they should get gold-plated health insurance even when their highly-active phase was years ago c) Grindr pooled sample testing is really important d) maybe condom time is back?

    Paul Ewald’ s been a big proponent of “the new germ theory of disease.” Actually wrote an article about it with Cochran in the Atlantic. Then Ewald wrote a book about it, Plague Time. He’s a prof and it’s his thing.

  133. Moses says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Pure racism


    Lol no. You don’t understand.

    Discrimination and hate against Whites is anti-racism, therefore good.

    Racism is only when Whites notice racial patterns. That is not ok.

    “Racism” lol. You swallow the frame of the enemy hook, line and sinker every time you use this word.

    There is no “racism.”

    There is only “noticing” and “Power.”

    Thank u drive thru.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
    • Thanks: fish
  134. Anonymous[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rob McX

    What’s the deal with those fluffy slippers that black women all seem to wear nowadays?

    • Replies: @fish
  135. fish says:

    Well….you begin your day by “sausage casing” your 5’ 7” 312lb body into a pair of fire engine yellow Spanx……how do you not choose the “fuzzies”?

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