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Henry Louis Gates: My PBS DNA Show "Finding Your Roots" Isn't About Race, Which Does Not Exist, It's About Ancestry!
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From the New York Times opinion section:

We Need a New Language for Talking About Race
March 3, 2022

By Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Andrew S. Curran

Henry Louis Gates is the chairman of the Harvard Afro-American Studies department and host of the PBS show “Finding Your Roots,” an informative series, in which celebrities have their DNA scanned and told their racial backgrounds. Hence, he’s in a bit of a tight spot as the Race Does Not Exist dogma hardens. Here he tries to wriggle out:

The other day, while teaching a lecture class, one of us mentioned in passing that the average African American, according to a 2014 paper, is about 24 percent European and less than 1 percent Native American. A student responded that these percentages were impossible to measure, since “race is a social construction.”

Given our country’s history of scientific racism — and all of the horrible crimes and abuses that African Americans have been subjected to in the name of science — the fact that race is a social invention and not a biological reality cannot be repeated too much. However, while race is socially constructed, genetic mutations — biological records of ancestry — are not, and the distinction is a crucial one.

To be fair, we really can’t blame this student for being confused. To varying degrees, we have all inherited a muddled understanding of race, ancestry and phenotype from the Enlightenment

Except that the Race Does Not Exist belief is largely a fairly recent concoction. As far as I can tell, it suddenly leapt to dogma during Bill Clinton’s 2000 Rose Garden ceremony for the Human Genome Project, mostly due to entrepreneur Craig Venter’s blustering speech in which he claimed: “In the five Celera genomes, there is no way to tell one ethnicity from another.”

Of course, since then, tens of millions of people have had their ethnic ancestry measured to three significant digits by commercial DNA firms such as Ancestry.com. But that hasn’t much impeded the rise to dominance of Venterism.

, an era when European savants freed themselves from biblical explanations of the species and claimed the right to tell all of humankind — particularly Africans and people of African descent — who we supposedly are. …

Fast-forward to our era, when new advancements in technology are once again changing the way we think about human origins. With the recent rise in availability of tools for individual genetic analysis, tens of millions of people have eagerly had their DNA tested — hoping, among other things, to find out where their ancestors hail from.

Commercial DNA tests vary widely, and some trace DNA to more than 2,000 regions worldwide. …

The specificity with which this new technology is able to determine individual origins is staggering. For example, one of us, Henry Louis Gates Jr., knows, purely through his DNA, that he is descended from an Irish American man who fathered his great-great-grandmother’s oldest son, because Gates’s y-DNA signature is one that he shares with a ton of men in Ireland. CeCe Moore, a well-known genetic genealogist, has identified that forebear’s name and biographical details, long a mystery in the Gates family, by analyzing the family trees of all of the people with whom Dr. Gates shares DNA in publicly available databases. On his mother’s line, he is descended from a white woman, most likely from England, who had a child with a man of sub-Saharan African descent at some point during the time of slavery, though their identities have been lost.

It would be an understatement to say that he was astonished to learn that his recent ancestral mutations trace back equally to sub-Saharan Africa and to Europe.

Doesn’t seem that astonishing to me. Here’s a picture of Dr. Gates with comedian Chris Rock:

As a friend of his joked: Who could have guessed that a Black scholar who has spent so much of his professional life searching for his long-veiled African ancestry would finally find it — only to discover that he’s half a white man. That friend’s joke allowed him to make a point: There is no category for white in genetic analysis; half of his ancestry traces back to regions in Europe. We should never forget that whiteness, like Blackness, is just another social fiction.

You just said, “trace back equally to sub-Saharan Africa and to Europe.” It’s awfully silly to say that sub-Saharan African ancestry and European ancestry are real, but black and white are not more or less the same things.

But what else are you going to do if you are Gates and you have a nice thing going with your PBS show about DNA testing, but naive, ignorant college students keep telling you it’s impossible to use DNA to figure out race.

I think the great majority of intelligent people can’t call up an image in their heads of population density maps of the world.

So they default to assuming that population density is constant all over the globe (including, hilariously, the oceans), so therefore it’s only logical that nobody could possibly draw a line between one race and another. Races must just constantly bleed into each other in smooth gradients.

Here’s a map of Africa’s population density. As you can see, however, there is a giant gap known as the Sahara Desert in northwest Africa between the northern populations and the sub-Saharan populations. That’s why they are called sub-Saharan. (There is somewhat more overlap in northeastern Africa, but that area is almost irrelevant to the ancestry of the Descendants of American Slaves.)

Moreover, until 1492, there was an even more overwhelming gap called the Atlantic Ocean.

There can be fewer more dramatic demonstrations that race is a social construction than his own DNA results.

Uh, no. Before the Age of Exploration, about half of his ancestors were white and half were black.

This kind of rhetoric is effective because it leads people to assume that if prominent black intellectuals such as Dr. Gates are often substantially white, there it must also be true to prominent white intellectuals are often substantially black. That’s only logical, right?

Almost nobody in America is aware that recent DNA studies have shown that people who self-identify as white tend to have only tiny amounts of black ancestry on average. When you think about it, that’s perfectly understandable, but who thinks about it?

Bad People, that’s whom!

Another common logical assumption is that if we dropped out of the black race individuals who self identify as black but are heavily white, such as Henry Louis Gates and Barack Obama, then unfortunate statistical disparities between races would be reduced. In truth, it’s the other way around.

And therein lies the promise of this new science. DNA, used in this way, can restore a remarkable amount of information about the ancestors whose traces we carry around every day in our genomes. The multitude of population clusters, regions and genetic groups reflected in DNA tests counters existing narratives that try to reduce the astonishing variety of the human community to the four or five socially constructed races of man about which prior generations of students learned in biology class.

But those Enlightenment continental-scale categories are more or less what the government uses to hand out affirmative action benefits and detriments. Are you calling for making affirmative action unfeasible, Dr. Gates? Do tell us more.

A more “nuanced” approach might be to break out government reporting of economic statistics not just by white and black, but by, say, Quebec-American vs. Ashkenazi. But I’ll let Dr. Gates suggest that idea…

… While, biologically speaking, the idea of individual human races with different origins is as farcical as the medieval belief that elves cause hiccups

But you just said that your DNA test showed that half of your ancestors originated in Europe and the other half in sub-Saharan Africa.

, the social reality of race is undeniable. …

But if we can, at the very least, embrace the understanding that race (a toxic social construction) and ancestry (a shared genetic history) are not only distinct but also fundamentally opposed — and teach that in our classrooms — it could go a long way toward freeing us from some of the binds in which scientific racism have trapped us.

In other words, my TV show Finding Your Roots has nothing about race, it’s just about ancestry. Race and ancestry are fundamentally opposed because reasons.

 
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  1. In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term “our people”, referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    • Agree: Calvin Hobbes
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @James N. Kennett

    Agree. Gates's swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on.

    If he really thinks race is just a social construct, yet has yet to act like it on his show.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Robert Dolan, @Element59

    , @mc23
    @James N. Kennett


    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler
     
    Now that's a social construct.

    All this posturing by Gates would never occur to him if he could pass.
    , @AceDeuce
    @James N. Kennett


    Any white American or European who used the same term ( “our people”) to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.
     
    Welp, the way out is for someone to actually do it, and to not apologize for it, and to double down on it, and when the usual suspects make their move, for "our people" to rise up en masse and tell the people howling for blood to GFY, and refuse to play along.

    Easier said than done, I know. But that's eventually how it'll play out--probably when it's too late, but...

    That's one thing that I saw in Trump early on. He has moved the Overton Window some as far as making Whites feel somewhat empowered to stand up for themselves. He fkd up big time with the nigro pandering during his term--I'm sure that was his [email protected] daughter and her (((husband))), who both have schitt for brains.

    Rights are acquired by giving them to yourself. Unity and will are force multipliers. even stupid negroes know that. Time for YT to rediscover it. That's the only way.
    , @turtle
    @James N. Kennett

    When will Harvard have a German-American Studies Department?
    I mean, there are a lot of us, and our ancestors have, uh, you know, done lots of stuff,
    Are we not worth "studying?" WTF, man?

    Replies: @Flip

    , @Corvinus
    @James N. Kennett

    "In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term “our people”"

    Mmmm, speaking about our people--whites...

    @Chris Mallory --> “I don’t care about Russia or Ukraine, a pox upon them both. Neither one is my people.”

    @J.Ross
    “The best thing white people ever did was English common law tradition enabling science and true modern civilization. That’s not only geographically far from Ukraine, it’s totally incompatible with Ukrainian or Russian mores...If the whitest person alive is a footsoldier for neocons, then he’s not white at all.”

    Do you agree or disagree with these sentiments? Why? Could both fine commenters be labeled, dare I say, engaging in "anti-white" rhetoric? Why? Would you ultimately characterize each person as being "your people"? Why?

    Furthermore, what is YOUR definition of "being white"? What metrics are involved? How do you propose convincing others that your version of whiteness is the standard for all other whites to follow?

    Serious questions here. Please respond.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    @James N. Kennett

    In a Congressional hearing, Obama's wingman, AG Eric Holder, referred to the "new black panthers" who stood outside of polling stations in 2008 menacing voters with clubs as "my people." And, to paraphrase Obama's close friend and spiritual leader, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, no one batted an eye.

    , @Poirot
    @James N. Kennett

    Or think Ross Perot, getting into trouble for saying “you people” when addressing some blecks.

  2. Craig Venter is OBVIOUSLY dishonest. He MUST know better. But he wants to continue his carreer and a few lies are necessary or else he might become WATSONED and destroyed.
    Of course, if all geneticists became HONEST and told the WHOLE TRUTH about race differences, they probably could change the world, with their dishonesty about race and social construction. They could have saved James Watson.

    Gates etc are most likely dishonest. They try to save their narrative from collapse, and frantically reinforce their lies.

    We MUST call out the LIARS shame liars, praise the truth tellers and whistle blowers (@Isteve!! )and return to Scientific ethics, scientific honesty, logic, and Christian ethics and honesty.
    We must stop having entire University departments based on Lies and anti-logic.

  3. I don’t think anyone posting at this website – except maybe Corvinus – believes that race is entirely socially constructed. But none of these people saying “race is entirely a social construct” actually believe it, because (even assuming for the sake of argument that race is 100% a social construct) they all act in ways that are objectively contrary to any conceivable abolishment of the concept of race. The only people who actually seem to believe that race is a social construct are normie Republicans, and none of them really talk about things like “social constructs.”

    • Replies: @bomag
    @AndrewR


    But none of these people saying “race is entirely a social construct” actually believe it, because... they all act in ways that are objectively contrary to any conceivable abolishment of the concept of race.
     
    This.

    "Social construct" is mainly a political concession to Blacks who feel bad because no one wants them living next door.

    And the other half of articles I read claim racial superiority of Blacks: athletic accomplishment; entertainment prowess; more genetic diversity; they are the real inventors and innovators; face the truth, honkey; etc. etc. They want to have it both ways.

    , @Hat Tip
    @AndrewR

    I guess the normie Republicans would be those following a christian humanism -- "we're all god's children" -- so, yes, there might be races but it's not particularly important in moral terms. Just love your neighbor.

    Secular humanism is we're all morally equal simply as humans -- "all the same underneath" -- and thus they have to fight off any discussion of real or biological differences among humans in order to maintain the ideological construct against the risks of tribalism.

    Replies: @Alrenous

  4. But if we can, at the very least, embrace the understanding that race (a toxic social construction) and ancestry (a shared genetic history) are not only distinct but also fundamentally opposed — and teach that in our classrooms — it could go a long way toward freeing us from some of the binds in which scientific racism have trapped us.

    This passage is illogical, contradictory, and unscientific, but since it allows Gates to maintain the concept that “race bad, ancestry good” and therefore continue to run his grift at Harvard and PBS, he not only states it publicly, but likely believes it himself.

    Besides, science and logic are also the social constructions of White Supremacy, so not only can you ignore them, you must ignore them.

    • Agree: Old Prude, HammerJack
    • Replies: @Rooster13
    @Technite78

    Student: “So Professor Gates, what you’re saying is discussion about race is toxic i.e. black and White, but shared genetic ancestry is good? So that means we’re all really brothers and sisters at the genetic level. That means that any talk of “reparations” can be discarded, correct?”

    Gates: “No you little honkey cracka’! Me and my people goin’ get that money!!”

    , @stillCARealist
    @Technite78

    I think he's trying to disentangle the political notion of race from the biological reality of ancestry.

    Think of homosexuality: we have same sex attractions, which may be biological. And then we have "gay", which is purely a political term. We may use them interchangeably, but they're not necessarily the same thing.

    I seriously doubt, though, that he really wants "Black!" to lose its political power. It's too bad we don't have words for separating subtle yet important ideas like woman vs. female, or man vs. male in the racial sphere.

    , @Bugg
    @Technite78

    If you carry the "social contruct" idea to it's logical conclusion, then race, being really nothing, does not matter.But the leap he won't make is , therefore, we cannot have racial set asides, accomodations and affirmative action since race doesn't matter. If you buy into his premise, there's no way around that.ulitmate conclusion. He won't do that. Though lucky for us Justice O'Connor's "25 years" ends in 2028 so we are close to ending AA, right?

    , @Poirot
    @Technite78

    Something for iSteve to look forward to: “[Maya] Jasanoff [at Harvard] is currently working on a wide-ranging book about the human preoccupation with ancestry.”
    See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMFrLFUDrxc (interview by Niall Ferguson from Hoover)

  5. Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she’s Muslim. Of course she’s not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not “white”?

    • Replies: @Tono Bungay
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Looks tan to me.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @Blinky Bill
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Uzbek.


    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYURtcCXxS9Jf__zWLTJkWCurYyMdHv4Mxwg&usqp.jpg

    Race is not based on looks but community acceptance. If whites embrace you, you're white!

    Replies: @Otto The Lotto

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Bardon Kaldian wrote:


    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.
     
    They also look different from people whose ancestry is almost completely Black.

    They should therefore be called "mixed race."

    We do this for people who are half East Asian, half Caucasian.

    But we do not do it for Blacks because of the silly "one-drop rule."

    Of course, the one-drop rule once served the goals of White racists. Now, it serves the puepose of Affirmative Action.

    Odd how history plays out.

    Replies: @prosa123

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Thanks. I knew that, deep down, Irish people weren't really white.

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “Race is looks plus some culture.“

    I’ve always thought the Canadian description was good: “visible minorities”.

    , @AndrewR
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What is a "convert Iranian?"

    I'm also skeptical that she's Muslim. Religious women in Iran tend to wear the chador. Iranian law compels her to cover the rear of her hair with a hijab.

    Anyway, race is a social construct, to a certain extent. By any meaningful definition, this woman is white, albeit with noticeably Persian facial features. In Iran everyone would consider her white. She surely considers herself white. But if she came to an Anglo country she would be strongly discouraged in many ways from identifying as white. At most, she would be described with the revolting term "white-passing," by the same people who tell us race doesn't exist.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Chrisnonymous

    , @Art Deco
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I would tend to disagree with you inasmuch as Obama was raised in a social environment bereft of blacks bar his grandfather's chum Frank Marshall Davis. (Davis himself was rather an eccentric figure dissimilar from mainstream blacks). When Gov. Blagojevich said 'I'm blacker than Obama', he was speaking the truth.

    Obama married into the black population. To the extent that he's of it, it's from associating with his in-laws and with the social circle to which he was introduced by Valerie Jarrett. That circle is composed of the black population's old patriciate, so foreign to Mooch's upbrining as well as Obama's. The closest Obama gets to mainstream black would be his mother-in-law. His wife has some of the discombobulation you see in people raised in one matrix and living in another, compounded to which is the disorientation induced by race patronage, which hardly effects the life of most blacks but has had an extreme effect on hers. Then you add to that celebrity culture. The daughters have grown up in an artificial environment and who knows what ill-effects it had on them.

    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AceDeuce, @Bardon Kaldian

    , @J.Ross
    @Bardon Kaldian

    If we're going to talk seriously about this stuff, so we can enable the discovery of natural laws and the framing of wise policy, we need a criterion better than apparent skin color. You're lowering yourself to their incoherent standard. We could have a genome-reporting photo ID required to vote and tied to medical services and national surveying, and instead we're back here with the paper bags and the sun tan lotion. It's beneath us.

    , @quewin
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Can we just go back to the three “obsolete racial categories” of Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid that I remember (reading about) from my youth?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    , @AnotherDad
    @Bardon Kaldian


    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.
     
    If you mean "race" as in the part that actually is "socially constructed", i.e. how you are "seen" and fit in your society, then i can more or less agree with that. (In America, anyway, in some cultures it may be more complicated.)

    If you mean "race" as in actual biological race, then no. Biological race is way, way more than looks plus culture. Looks doesn't even begin to cover it.

    ~~

    Not sure the point of the "would bang" photo. Fred Reed has done this a few times as well. "Hey look at this cute Mexican girl what would you like to do with her?" Well duh.

    Skin tone issues with photographs aside, obviously this woman will be "white" in the colloquial American sense. Danny Thomas an Arab--and good guy--was white in this American sense as well. (Way back in the dark ages of the mid 20th century!) Iranians are "Caucasians" and ergo group with Europeans in the big 3 (or 5 or 7) racial breakdown. Doesn't mean they have the same characteristics mentally as NW Europeans--America's founding stock.

    Of course, if such a gal was in minoritarian America, she might well insist she was not "white" but "Persian" or a "person of color". (Another wonderful benefit of this toxic ideology.)

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @Greysquirrell
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What do you mean by "real Iranian, not a convert" ?

    I am confused; how does one convert to Iranian?

    Replies: @tyrone, @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Clyde
    @Bardon Kaldian

    She has done her makeup to accentuate, hair color, hairstyle to look much more north European than she really is. I predict that without all these, she looks like the average Iranian woman in Tehran. Though not the countryside, where she would be getting more sun.

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @JMcG
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Have her stripped, washed, and brought to my tent.

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Her's my stab at summing up what I think Steve's "ancestry group" theory of race means.

    Visually identifiable differences are what people use to define "race" in everyday affairs. These visual identifiers absolutely do correlate with Continent-level ancestry groups as they existed ten thousand years ago at least. And these ancestry groups also have different distributions of behavioral and intellectual traits (although these are not supposed to be acknowledged.)

    But the ancestry lineages themselves are the true scientific definitions of "race." The visual differences are just evidence of the ancestry. And the underlying differences in physiology and behavior are just side effects of the ancestry.

    The generalizations that people experience and expect regarding people who "look" like they have a certain ancestry could be called the "socially constructed" part of "race." But that still wouldn't mean race (ancestry) is "just" the social construct. Or that the social constructs surrounding race aren't based in part on real differences.

    Mixed race/ancestry people, or edge cases who don't look like their ancestry are just distractions.

    Replies: @FBIstats, @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Pop Warner
    @Bardon Kaldian


    But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not “white”?
     
    Sure, I would (if you consider me sane). Whites are people from Europe. She is Aryan, but she is not White. If you believe that White is looks + culture/social mores, then it's very easy to for her non-European culture and customs to put her outside of the White category.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @occasional lurker

    , @Richard of Melbourne
    @Bardon Kaldian

    To modify Elvis Costello: There are many things you can cover up with lipstick and powder.

    Replies: @Clyde

    , @dindunuffins
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Caucasian. She is part of the White race.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  6. More gibberish from Gates. Catholic apologetics and intelligent design theory are far more sophisticated and convincing than the opaque blathering of this over-paid shyster.

    From what I gather, one can tell Mr. Gates that he’s not black, and that would be correct? Right?

    I’m not black. I wouldn’t understand.

    • Replies: @Hannah Katz
    @Old Prude

    I watch the show regularly, and it can be pretty good except it seems that every time he has a black person on, they are shocked to find that some of their ancestors were slaves. Who'd have guessed? And then they often cry while he consoles them about how their ancestors worked their way out of slavery, etc. Judging by the guests on the show, America is 50% black, 40% Jewish, and the rest Asian, Hispanic and occasionally European.

  7. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Looks tan to me.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Tono Bungay

    That photo has clearly been run through a few filters.

  8. • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Blinky Bill

    I'm surprised ;-)

    “In the last 10 years, since the Somalis and the Congolese came to London, they taught us a whole new level of violence”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190328225442/http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/how-londons-knife-culture-is-being-fueled-by-jargon-social-media-and-music-a3579396.html

    , @AnotherDad
    @Blinky Bill

    He's right--and very rational--he's not Ukrainian. It's not his nation or his war.

    It's the Ukrainians who were irrational--or at least silly--letting this guy hang his hat there. Has no one learned anything from America.

  9. @AndrewR
    I don't think anyone posting at this website - except maybe Corvinus - believes that race is entirely socially constructed. But none of these people saying "race is entirely a social construct" actually believe it, because (even assuming for the sake of argument that race is 100% a social construct) they all act in ways that are objectively contrary to any conceivable abolishment of the concept of race. The only people who actually seem to believe that race is a social construct are normie Republicans, and none of them really talk about things like "social constructs."

    Replies: @bomag, @Hat Tip

    But none of these people saying “race is entirely a social construct” actually believe it, because… they all act in ways that are objectively contrary to any conceivable abolishment of the concept of race.

    This.

    “Social construct” is mainly a political concession to Blacks who feel bad because no one wants them living next door.

    And the other half of articles I read claim racial superiority of Blacks: athletic accomplishment; entertainment prowess; more genetic diversity; they are the real inventors and innovators; face the truth, honkey; etc. etc. They want to have it both ways.

  10. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Uzbek.

    Race is not based on looks but community acceptance. If whites embrace you, you’re white!

    • Replies: @Otto The Lotto
    @Blinky Bill

    Robert J Matthews and David Lane always told me, "if you think you're white and we think you are white, then you are white".

  11. It’s time for the first Melanesian POTUS. Now that would be interesting.

    Would news anchors refer to someone like that as ‘NOT black President’ to dispel confusion?

    • Replies: @tyrone
    @Lex

    State dinners would be interesting (hint:skip the meat course).

  12. Actually, Finding Your Roots has extensive discussion of each subject’s family history. I’m not sure they take DNA samples of all their subjects and it’s commonly a small segment of the broadcast.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    I'm not sure it's done 100% of the time, but in every recent episode I've seen, they start out with and spend most of the episode on conventional genealogy based on historical records and at the very end they show the guest his DNA results to "fill in the gaps". Maybe there are some guests who don't want their DNA taken (I haven't seen any) but the template for each regular episode calls for DNA results at the end.

    The most hilarious one I recall was Frank Gehry, the architect (nee Goldberg). At the end, Gates asks him how Jewish he thinks he is. He answers "40%?", chuckling and Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, "I didn't think I'd be all that Jewish, because emotionally I'm not anymore, I'm sort of international " as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites (and this comes after Gates has just show him which concentration camps his close relatives had died in). And Dr. Gates doesn't call him on his insanity - he confirms it and nods and says, "You're a citizen of the world."

    You can find the show on the Hoopla platform which (may be) available thru your local public library. It's Season 3, Episode 5 and the DNA reveal is about 50 minutes in. I searched for this because I wanted to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks but Gehry's words above are transcribed verbatim from the video.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Barnard, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Bardon Kaldian

  13. hoping, among other things, to find out where their ancestors hail from

    DNA “testing” seems like yet another narcissistic trend in a postmodern culture that has traded respect for the individual for infatuation with the ego, to the exclusion of common sense, the national community and most else. Not so long ago most people didn’t concern themselves knowing what year they were born in, let alone who their g-g-g-g-g-granddaddy was or where he came from. Genealogies started as inventions of the powerful royalty and nobility who cobbled together the fantasy of “distinguished bloodlines” in order to empower them to rule (i.e., steal from) everyone else. This seems another case of the hoi polloi aping their “betters” while denying the reality of how class determines their roles in the great land of freedom and equality.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Observator

    Sorry your mama was a streetwalker and your daddy a drunk.

    Replies: @anonymous

    , @Muggles
    @Observator

    Are you familiar with the Old Testament? It is mainly full of discussion about ancestors. Ancient histories are full of that too.

    Of course pre literate populations (or elite literate only) had no way of documenting family histories.

    Land titles were usually based on family history. Why wouldn't this be a main focus for nearly everyone? Instead you suggest some kind of selfish elite mentality. Very odd.

    In my case, my surviving family members only learned about some family history via DNA, which located members we were unaware of before. Misrepresentation by my father, for instance, and the discovery of a "half family" as a result none of us still living knew about. The big shoot out at my grandmother's wedding. Fun stuff...

    The interest in DNA and family history is grounded in everyone's favorite subject: themselves.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    , @James J O'Meara
    @Observator

    "This seems another case of the hoi polloi aping their “betters” "

    Their "betters" know it's "hoi poloi," not "the hoi poloi."

  14. “Finding Your Roots ”

    Seems like the logical place for negroes to start looking is back in Africa.

  15. Bad People, that’s whom!

    I see what you did there.

    • Thanks: HammerJack
  16. @Technite78

    But if we can, at the very least, embrace the understanding that race (a toxic social construction) and ancestry (a shared genetic history) are not only distinct but also fundamentally opposed — and teach that in our classrooms — it could go a long way toward freeing us from some of the binds in which scientific racism have trapped us.
     
    This passage is illogical, contradictory, and unscientific, but since it allows Gates to maintain the concept that "race bad, ancestry good" and therefore continue to run his grift at Harvard and PBS, he not only states it publicly, but likely believes it himself.

    Besides, science and logic are also the social constructions of White Supremacy, so not only can you ignore them, you must ignore them.

    Replies: @Rooster13, @stillCARealist, @Bugg, @Poirot

    Student: “So Professor Gates, what you’re saying is discussion about race is toxic i.e. black and White, but shared genetic ancestry is good? So that means we’re all really brothers and sisters at the genetic level. That means that any talk of “reparations” can be discarded, correct?”

    Gates: “No you little honkey cracka’! Me and my people goin’ get that money!!”

    • LOL: fish
  17. My Mother (1930 – Alps ) took one of these DNA tests and the results came back she was 10% Neanderthal ! Apparently, the Neanderthals hung around the Alps for a few thousand years intermingling with the Homo Sapiens.

    Question – is that DNA surprise ancestry or race ?

  18. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Bardon Kaldian wrote:

    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    They also look different from people whose ancestry is almost completely Black.

    They should therefore be called “mixed race.”

    We do this for people who are half East Asian, half Caucasian.

    But we do not do it for Blacks because of the silly “one-drop rule.”

    Of course, the one-drop rule once served the goals of White racists. Now, it serves the puepose of Affirmative Action.

    Odd how history plays out.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @PhysicistDave

    They should therefore be called “mixed race.”
    We do this for people who are half East Asian, half Caucasian.


    Some half-Asian/half-Caucasian people may actually consider themselves Asian, but we wouldn't really notice because there isn't a self-contained, separate Asian culture in the US beyond first generation immigrants - very few of whom are mixed. Second and to some extent 1.5 generation Asian immigrants generally blend into the mainstream culture, whether they're Hapa or full Asian, and just because a Hapa might check the "Asian" box on a form or survey doesn't mean they're not part of the mainstream culture.

    Another issue is that Hapas don't derive any tangible benefits from identifying as full Asian because they're unlikely to qualify for affirmative action.

    Replies: @Jack D

  19. Racist: The Negros score poorly on admissions tests, and fill up our jails.
    Anti-Racist: Folx of African ancestry score poorly on admissions tests, and fill up our jails.

    I’m glad we’ve cleared that up.
    I guess that’s why Dr. Expert makes the big bucks.

  20. This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she’s Muslim. Of course she’s not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not “white”?

    Of course. She is literally Aryan.

    • Agree: mc23, Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @mc23
    @Seamus

    Her ancestors who continued on to the Indian sub-continent are enshrined in the Hindu-Pantheon

  21. @AndrewR
    I don't think anyone posting at this website - except maybe Corvinus - believes that race is entirely socially constructed. But none of these people saying "race is entirely a social construct" actually believe it, because (even assuming for the sake of argument that race is 100% a social construct) they all act in ways that are objectively contrary to any conceivable abolishment of the concept of race. The only people who actually seem to believe that race is a social construct are normie Republicans, and none of them really talk about things like "social constructs."

    Replies: @bomag, @Hat Tip

    I guess the normie Republicans would be those following a christian humanism — “we’re all god’s children” — so, yes, there might be races but it’s not particularly important in moral terms. Just love your neighbor.

    Secular humanism is we’re all morally equal simply as humans — “all the same underneath” — and thus they have to fight off any discussion of real or biological differences among humans in order to maintain the ideological construct against the risks of tribalism.

    • Replies: @Alrenous
    @Hat Tip


    Just love your neighbor.
     
    Further, you're not allowed to have any say in who your neighbour is. Love the ones that mind their own business and also the ones that regularly dispose of their trash on your lawn and constantly bother your daughter.
  22. When you think about it, that’s perfectly understandable, but who thinks about it?

    Bad People, that’s whom!

    Whom should be who, I think. Unless you’re subtly pointing out that we bad people are the “whom” in our who, whom world.

  23. @James N. Kennett
    In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term "our people", referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @mc23, @AceDeuce, @turtle, @Corvinus, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Poirot

    Agree. Gates’s swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on.

    If he really thinks race is just a social construct, yet has yet to act like it on his show.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Almost Missouri

    Almost Missouri, Gates is also the founder of the Root website which is as pro black and anti white as possible. He is also the cause of obama's "beer summit", where obama basically made the Cambridge, Ma. polce dept. apologize to Gates for simply doing their job. A job that Gates made into a cause when all he had to do was show an ID.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Unladen Swallow

    , @Robert Dolan
    @Almost Missouri

    "Agree. Gates’s swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on."

    The finest example of this is when that stupid witch Eva Longoria was on the show. (She's made a career out of hating white people....helped Obama when he ran, etc.)

    They revealed Longoria's DNA was at least 70% white and she was visibly triggered......then she tried to play it off and blabbed on and on about her wonderful 1% african DNA.....and she said she was proud to be part black like the idiot race baiting host.

    This was some of the best kabuki theater I have ever seen.

    Replies: @Barnard, @mc23, @R.G. Camara

    , @Element59
    @Almost Missouri

    Gates is a certified "talented 10th" club member who has been over-promoted to positions of fame, power, influence, and a public "intellectual" precisely because he's a competent "black" and openly embraces his "black" identity. Among a similar cohort of whites, Gates would be a mediocrity with some serious character flaws that would limit his advancements and promotions.

    I recall watching a Gates documentary series called "Africa's Great Civilizations". It was unapologetically pro-African (read: black African), to the point of almost rubbing it in your face. What was particularly off-putting was a scene of a beach on Zanzibar with Gates narrating in a contemptible tone the racist (to him) juxtaposition of "white" tourists sunbathing and being served by "blacks" (locals). It deeply irritated him to see whites being catered to by blacks in Africa of all places!! This guy is a thin-skinned uppity type who sees race first and foremost in any interaction. This is probably the exact hostile and uncooperative attitude he exhibited when he was simply being questioned by Cambridge police - which led to his arrest and the "Beer Summit".

    While I've enjoyed some episodes of "Finding Your Roots", the cringe-worthy episodes are always the ones where a white person of note is shown that an ancestor of theirs owned slaves and Gates feeds them this info in a manner to elicit a forced shocked and remorseful reaction. Almost equally cringe are episodes when a black person of note is presented with a well-documented slave ancestor and Gates serves that up to elicit a reaction of both ethnic pride and anger - which is always subtly anti-white.

    Gates is a skilled grifter who has benefitted and profited greatly from liberal white generosity and white pathological altruism, and he's thoroughly ungrateful for it. I've always noticed his obvious white admixture and was hoping that one day he'd admit to just how "white" he is - not surprisingly he's being cleverly disingenuous about it to maintain the grift.

    Replies: @Lloyd1927

  24. In the future there will be a racial Voight-Kampff test:

    “Your daughter introduces you to her fiancee, !Kung, a bushman she met in Tanzania while on safari”

    “What do mean by bushman?”

    “You know what a pygmy is, Leon?”

    “Of course I know what a pygmy is”

    “Kind of like a pygmy”

    “What do you mean my daughter wants to marry a pygmy!”

    “They’re just questions, Leon. Now tell me about your mother.”

    • LOL: Gabe Ruth
  25. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Thanks. I knew that, deep down, Irish people weren’t really white.

  26. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    “Race is looks plus some culture.“

    I’ve always thought the Canadian description was good: “visible minorities”.

  27. Does the show have excerpts from Django Unchained? If they want ratings it seems like that would be a requirement.

    Also: Vladimir Putin never called me a deplorable. : )

  28. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    What is a “convert Iranian?”

    I’m also skeptical that she’s Muslim. Religious women in Iran tend to wear the chador. Iranian law compels her to cover the rear of her hair with a hijab.

    Anyway, race is a social construct, to a certain extent. By any meaningful definition, this woman is white, albeit with noticeably Persian facial features. In Iran everyone would consider her white. She surely considers herself white. But if she came to an Anglo country she would be strongly discouraged in many ways from identifying as white. At most, she would be described with the revolting term “white-passing,” by the same people who tell us race doesn’t exist.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @AndrewR


    But if she came to an Anglo country she would be strongly discouraged in many ways from identifying as white. At most, she would be described with the revolting term “white-passing,” by the same people who tell us race doesn’t exist.
     
    You're right re. current politics.

    But if you go 20-40 years back in time & she drops the Islamic culture (the same way Carlos Menem in Argentine has adopted Christianity)- she would be considered white by any reasonable white American. In the 1990s she would be completely white for most regular Americans (minus Islam etc.).
    , @Chrisnonymous
    @AndrewR

    It's funny--if someone puts on blackface, nobody thinks they are black, but if a woman puts on so much makeup and hair coloring, eyebrow plucking etc, that her features are largely obscured, she can get people to argue about her ethnicity.

    In reality, if you have completely secular acculturated Iranians in, e.g., your office, you still know--the question of "whiteness" aside--that they are a different ethnic group from your German, Scandinavian, English, Irish, French, Russian, Czech, etc (even your Italian and Greek) co-workers. On the other hand, you may not be able to differentiate the actual ethnic backgrounds or existence in difference of same of your German, Scandinavian, Irish, English, etc co-workers.

    The question of whether she would pass as white decades ago is actually a question about US race relations and not about "whiteness". In times before our current wokeness, you could basically get accepted in society if you acted normal and weren't black. Probably no WASP would be bringing her home to momma to get married, but would she get invited out to parties, make friends, work well with colleagues, etc? Yes. If that's what whiteness means, then whiteness is not about being white, and has nothing to do with whether someone is perceived as white racially and ethnically.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Donald A Thomson

  29. @James N. Kennett
    In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term "our people", referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @mc23, @AceDeuce, @turtle, @Corvinus, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Poirot

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler

    Now that’s a social construct.

    All this posturing by Gates would never occur to him if he could pass.

  30. Henry Louis Gates refers to “the medieval belief that elves cause hiccups.” I have never been in the presence of an elf, but I have had hiccups. It is astonishing that Mr. Gates thinks that Europeans in the middle ages had this belief. Citations, please! Let’s see what an online search turns up…
    https://theweek.com/articles/531470/6-crazy-medical-beliefs-from-days-yore
    “In Old English, the word for hiccup is ælfsogoða, or “elf hiccup.” While we’re guessing ælfsogoða involves spasms of the diaphragm, this description makes it seem like a far more serious ailment. Luckily there was a cure: make a “salve” of herbs, write some crosses, and sing a religious verse in Latin.”

  31. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    I would tend to disagree with you inasmuch as Obama was raised in a social environment bereft of blacks bar his grandfather’s chum Frank Marshall Davis. (Davis himself was rather an eccentric figure dissimilar from mainstream blacks). When Gov. Blagojevich said ‘I’m blacker than Obama’, he was speaking the truth.

    Obama married into the black population. To the extent that he’s of it, it’s from associating with his in-laws and with the social circle to which he was introduced by Valerie Jarrett. That circle is composed of the black population’s old patriciate, so foreign to Mooch’s upbrining as well as Obama’s. The closest Obama gets to mainstream black would be his mother-in-law. His wife has some of the discombobulation you see in people raised in one matrix and living in another, compounded to which is the disorientation induced by race patronage, which hardly effects the life of most blacks but has had an extreme effect on hers. Then you add to that celebrity culture. The daughters have grown up in an artificial environment and who knows what ill-effects it had on them.

    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.

    • Thanks: Calvin Hobbes, JMcG
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.
     
    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don't see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Bugg, @Art Deco

    , @AceDeuce
    @Art Deco

    Speaking of Obunghole and his mama-in-law (AKA the "Grifter Granny", go and read Grifter Granny's totally unselfconscious racism inthe accounts of when Moosechelle wasfirst dating him. Before she brought him home to meet the parents early on in their relationship, she told them that BO was half White, and Grifter Granny recounted frankly that she was not at all happy, and had serious reservations, even without having met him, about her daughter even casually dating a half White man, much less getting serious with him.

    I never read any criticism about that by the White newsmedia, much less the nigro coconut telegraph media.


    P.S. Where did Grifter Granny go? She was in the White Hut for 8 years living on our dime. Did BO return her to the same rental company that he borrowed the kids from?

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Art Deco

    I know what you write about, but I generally- disagree. It is natural that nowadays people try to get to the roots with genetic testing, but the central issue behind race thinking (if it is not perverted as was the case with Nazis) is- these people fundamentally don't look like my extended tribe. We don't marry them because they are evidently "not we" and we don't want their progeny to move among ourselves because they're more "them" than "we".

    Bizarre outliers don't change much.

    I didn't say that culture was of no importance, but it is secondary to looks, i.e. biological reality.

    Only among racially ambiguous people may culture be the prevalent element in dropping the issue of race & embracing those people as "we", without some weird practices like skull measurement. For instance, Mongoloid eyes of Lenin and Yeltsyn are of secondary importance because most Europeans don't think of them as Asians; if pressed, most regular Europeans would say that Lenin was an exotic Caucasian with some Asian features, but, basically "we" in terms of race & culture.

    It is easier with most Asians or even more with Middle Easterners because they are not that different from white Europeans. That's how Volga Tatars have become "exotic Caucasians":
    https://i.redd.it/0lo0koz5wd0z.jpg

    Africans differ too much from Europeans, so that their mixture with other types always pulls to the black side, simply due to the fact that Negro look is very different from white or (east) Asian ones.

    It isn't for nothing that Canadians have the category of "visible minority".

    So, depending on where one is a lumper or a splitter, we can divide people:

    a) white Caucasian (Europeans)

    b) ambiguously white, or "exotic" Caucasians (mostly middle Easterners and "white Hispanics", plus some white-Asian mixture). Here culture comes into play - whether a person belongs to the European civilization or not. When he says "we", does he mean all the stuff from Homer to Chopin & the rest.

    c) American Indians who are easily recognized as being non-Europeans. Those mixed, who are visibly b) category & are a part of Western civilization are Caucasians, or a subcategory of them.

    d) the same goes for South and east Asians. They are different, visually and frequently culturally (in the US).

    e) blacks remain blacks, due to their very different looks. We judge people, as far as racial looks go, as being contrasted with generic white phenotype. So, in the US, those ambiguous people may stick out more than in Greece or Italy simply because they are, if we look at them carefully- "not we". Euro-Asian mixes can, phenotypically, more easily become "white", in perhaps 2 generations, if they blend in white cultural community.

    It may seem that Brazil is wiser with their pardos, quadroons, octoroons ... and I agree, to a certain extent. But it also boils down to, mostly- looks. I am not talking about race hustlers, but about ordinary, normal people. If you are racially ambiguous, slightly, and you belong to European culture- you are Caucasian.

    But in the case of Obama, he's too visually different from the "white template" & assigning him a "white-African" mixed person label, although technically correct, would be wrong. Here phenotype, in my view, trumps culture. That he doesn't live among "real blacks" is of no importance. "Africanness" is simply more difficult to reconcile with "whiteness", which is, say, 80% looks and 20% culture.

    Simply- African-others mixes are fundamentally different from others-whites mixes. If not for very exclusive "other" culture, Caucasian- others' offspring or their progeny may much more smoothly transition into the Caucasian category.

    Not so with Africans or part-Africans. 

    Obama's children, if he married white, would not be in the Lenin-like category of ambiguous Caucasians.

  32. If any of you are interested in your personal DNA analysis I highly recommend FamilyTreeDNA.com.

    It seems to have the most comprehensive testing for the areas used in genealogy. Specific Y-DNA, MtDNA, and Autosomal (Family Finder) testing. As with the other companies the last one here includes ethnic analysis.

    If you are interested in health analysis then maybe 23&me. Plus they will tell you how many Neanderthal markers you have. Good for cocktail parties.


    Ancestry.com
    is third best to these two.

    You may want to look into DNA-Explained by Roberta Estes.

    • Thanks: AceDeuce
    • Replies: @res
    @John Henry

    Thanks. I think it depends on what your goals are and how hard you are willing to work.

    For finding relatives easily, Ancestry is the best. Largest collection of DNA tests along with most (well, a larger proportion than the other sites, anyway) users having family trees (I believe lacking at 23andMe). Their ThruLines feature (automatically find relatives based on DNA matches along with tree comparisons) can make it extremely easy to find relatives and fill out your own tree. Two notable non-features (I assume this is why you rank Ancestry last?). Ancestry does not support uploading other DNA tests to their site and lacks a chromosome browser. But you can download test data from there to upload to other sites. If you have any interest in genealogy I would recommend waiting for Black Friday and getting a DNA test for about $59 including a three month membership. Then build your tree (at least back to deceased ancestors who will be easy to look up in records and in other trees, living people pose privacy issues) while waiting for your DNA test to come back. After the test results are in, work through what ThruLines has to tell you then consider downloading your test data from them and uploading it to other sites.

    For doing more sophisticated analyses (e.g. using chromosome browser data) you really need one of the other providers: 23andMe, FTDNA, and MyHeritage all have better tools for looking at chromosome data, but they differ. 23andMe does not support uploading other tests to their site, but the latter two do. For the geeks among us, the genetic clustering tools (e.g. at MH) are cool.

    Any of the above tests can be uploaded to GEDmatch for analysis.

    There are many harder core tools out there, For example.
    https://isogg.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_Analysis_Tool
    https://isogg.org/wiki/DNA_Painter

    For Y-DNA and MtDNA, FTDNA is the best easy solution, but also consider extracting that information from whole genome data. Those FTDNA tests are relatively expensive. Also look into yfull.com
    The big win for those FTDNA tests is the ability to use the data on their site (e.g. in your profile or to find matches). They don't allow uploading that data (unlike autosomal).

    For health analysis you can upload test data to
    https://promethease.com/
    https://impute.me/

    For working with family trees as inexpensively as possible (Ancestry is expensive over time, and the others aren't much better) I would recommend looking into:
    https://www.familysearch.org/en/
    https://www.rootsmagic.com/

    The nice thing about Rootsmagic is it integrates well with FamilySearch, Ancestry, and MyHeritage.

    P.S. Some more links to support above.

    This 2019 article quotes 10M at Ancestry, 5M at 23andMe, 2.4M at MyHeritage.
    https://www.consumerreports.org/health-privacy/how-to-delete-genetic-data-from-23andme-ancrestry-other-sites-a3585380508

    YFull https://www.yfull.com/

    GEDmatch https://www.gedmatch.com/

  33. How much does the existence of a few unusually diverse cities such as New York, London, Toronto and others in the West lead to a lack of appreciation of how isolated most racial groups are in most of the world?

    The impression that I get is that many “educated people” who haven’t travelled much outside the West get the impression that since you can find people from all over the world in cities such as New York that those cities are accurate reflections of the world as opposed highly unusual places with a highly unusual degree diversity and mixing. This leads to a lack of understanding that the bulk of world’s population is isolated and unmixed. For instance the highly mixed African descended population of all of the Americas is less than 200 million people yet the highly unmixed population in Sub-Saharan Africa is something close to a billion. Yet the former is more salient in the minds of Westerners than the far more numerous latter group leading people to think that a high degree of mixing is the norm around the world.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @eded


    How much does the existence of a few unusually diverse cities such as New York, London, Toronto and others in the West lead to a lack of appreciation of how isolated most racial groups are in most of the world?
     
    The inhabitants are often totally baffled when they discover that the rest of the country/world is not like their neighbourhood.

    Case in point, a year or two ago, in The Guardian, there was an article by a Jewish lady from London complaining that someone or other had said something that she found absurd/offensive and demanded to know why the miscreant hadn't 'discussed it with a Jewish friend' veggie saying it. It was pointed out in the comments that the Jewish population of Britain is < 1%, and most of those are concentrated in a few urban areas, so no, most people won't have a Jewish friend or, indeed, knowingly meet any during their lives.

    It is the same lack of perspective that makes the BBC fill the airwaves with more ethnic minority folks than most Britons will meet in a year.
  34. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    If we’re going to talk seriously about this stuff, so we can enable the discovery of natural laws and the framing of wise policy, we need a criterion better than apparent skin color. You’re lowering yourself to their incoherent standard. We could have a genome-reporting photo ID required to vote and tied to medical services and national surveying, and instead we’re back here with the paper bags and the sun tan lotion. It’s beneath us.

  35. As with all things related to race, the attempt to erase biological reality is intended to obscure the fact that there are historical peoples whose achievements and innovations created modernity and others whose ancestors highest achievements were some pottery or masks.

    The US would have a much healthier society if we taught kids they are the inheritors of a great civilization via culture and they should be proud of our history, but that would require blacks to give up on the grievance politics that have granted them political influence far beyond their numbers or economic impact, as well as further assimilation into mainstream cultural norms and white progressive to lose their savior mentality.

    • Agree: bomag, Twinkie
    • Replies: @Goddard
    @Arclight


    Western man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible. It’s Western exploration, science, and conquest that have revealed the world to itself.

    Other races feel like subjects of Western power long after colonialism, imperialism, and slavery have disappeared.

    The charge of racism puzzles whites who feel not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don’t grasp what it really means: humiliation.

    The white man presents an image of superiority even when he isn’t conscious of it.

    And, superiority excites envy.

    Destroying white civilization is the inmost desire of the league of designated victims we call minorities.

    — Joseph Sobran, April 1997
     
    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Arclight

    Arc, the 'Agree' button isn't strong enough for your comment. Gates would be who? if he wasn't born in America. He has carved out a nice life churning the race pot, which of course, does not exist.

    Replies: @Mark G.

    , @Alrenous
    @Arclight

    Bantu-Americans have no influence. They didn't want to spike their own murder rate. Even Bantu children want to have fathers.
    The slaves were never freed and they're doing what they're told. They have protections if and only if they're on one of massa's errands. Ref: Thomas Sowell.

  36. To be fair, we really can’t blame this student for being confused. To varying degrees, we have all inherited a muddled understanding of race, ancestry and phenotype from the Enlightenment

    The student has acquired an extremely muddled understanding of race, ancestry and phenotype, thanks to the bullshitting of people like Gates.

    To be fair to the student, she thought that the term “social construction” had the obvious meaning (even though “race is a social construction” is obviously false if “social construction” is taken to have that obvious meaning, and her hardwired crimestop blocked her from noticing).

    But when the term “social construction” is used by the likes of Gates, it’s just a bullshit term that doesn’t really mean anything at all.

    Every word that Gates says is bullshit, including “and” and “the”. That statement might not be quite accurate, but it’s fair.

  37. Dr. Gates, which ancestry is the best one?

  38. @Almost Missouri
    @James N. Kennett

    Agree. Gates's swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on.

    If he really thinks race is just a social construct, yet has yet to act like it on his show.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Robert Dolan, @Element59

    Almost Missouri, Gates is also the founder of the Root website which is as pro black and anti white as possible. He is also the cause of obama’s “beer summit”, where obama basically made the Cambridge, Ma. polce dept. apologize to Gates for simply doing their job. A job that Gates made into a cause when all he had to do was show an ID.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Buffalo Joe

    IIRC, Skippy Gates got his PBS gig shortly after he flipped out on the Cambridge police and the "Beer Summit" nonsense. It was a cover to burnish Skip's reputation for being an uppity negro professor mad at prole whites for not bowing to him, ahem, "stopping an unknown man from breaking into a house."

    , @Unladen Swallow
    @Buffalo Joe

    The police department might have grovelled and apologized, but the police officer who got Gates' ire and was personally invited by Obama and Biden to the White House Beer Summit did not, to the best of my memory. In fact, Steve pointed out he demonstrated a lot more backbone than more famous people like James Watson did.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

  39. ” … Henry Louis Gates is the chairman of the Harvard Afro-American Studies department and host of the PBS show “Finding Your Roots” in which celebrities have their DNA scanned and told their racial backgrounds. Hence, he’s in a bit of a tight spot as the Race Does Not Exist dogma hardens. …”

    Hoisted by his own canard.

  40. @PhysicistDave
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Bardon Kaldian wrote:


    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.
     
    They also look different from people whose ancestry is almost completely Black.

    They should therefore be called "mixed race."

    We do this for people who are half East Asian, half Caucasian.

    But we do not do it for Blacks because of the silly "one-drop rule."

    Of course, the one-drop rule once served the goals of White racists. Now, it serves the puepose of Affirmative Action.

    Odd how history plays out.

    Replies: @prosa123

    They should therefore be called “mixed race.”
    We do this for people who are half East Asian, half Caucasian.

    Some half-Asian/half-Caucasian people may actually consider themselves Asian, but we wouldn’t really notice because there isn’t a self-contained, separate Asian culture in the US beyond first generation immigrants – very few of whom are mixed. Second and to some extent 1.5 generation Asian immigrants generally blend into the mainstream culture, whether they’re Hapa or full Asian, and just because a Hapa might check the “Asian” box on a form or survey doesn’t mean they’re not part of the mainstream culture.

    Another issue is that Hapas don’t derive any tangible benefits from identifying as full Asian because they’re unlikely to qualify for affirmative action.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @prosa123

    I agree that most Hapas don't. My next door neighbor is 1/2 S. Asian and grew up in the Midwest, but she looks and acts 100% white (no one would mistake her for a Swede but she could pass for any sort of southern European) - she has a white husband, white kids, etc. and no connection to the Indian community. Once she told me about how she had to go to India once for her grandmother's funeral and she described it exactly the way a Midwestern lady would describe it - what a filthy disgusting poverty stricken place it was, how she couldn't wait to get out of there. Maybe in even more brutally honest terms because a goodwhite lady wouldn't want to seem "racist" by describing India in those terms, but she didn't feel that she had to pull any punches.

    However there is a small % of Hapas who are "professional Asians" (the way that Obama is a "professional Negro". Their lack of 100% Asian ancestry has the paradoxical effect of making them identify MORE with their Asian side and they become Asian "activists" and so on.

    This is true of pretty much any identity, racial or otherwise - either you can wear your identity as a Southerner or a gay or a woman or a doctor lightly, as just one minor data point in your life, or else you can make it the defining focus of your life. Of course if there are financial benefits from doing so then the motivation is even stronger, but there are people who do stuff like this even when there is no $ to be gained, just a sense of "belonging" somewhere in an increasingly atomized, globalized world.

    Replies: @Mr. Grey

  41. Harvard afro-american studies department… I know it sounds trite, but how far the mighty have fallen.

  42. I, Henry Louis “Skip” Gates Junior, of Harvard =
    Yup! I hoard various jars of skin lightener!

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @the one they call Desanex

    Desi, Junior has been replaced by II, III, IV and V on the back of football shirts.

  43. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Can we just go back to the three “obsolete racial categories” of Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid that I remember (reading about) from my youth?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @quewin

    Agreed.

  44. You just said, “trace back equally to sub-Saharan Africa and to Europe.” It’s awfully silly to say that sub-Saharan African ancestry and European ancestry are real, but black and white are not more or less the same things.

    Exactly, to be from some population that population has to be defined, a certain level of inter-relatedness between members has to exist for them to exist. People living in the same place but who aren’t too inter-related (Either due to some form of effective social endogamy or due to the other group showing up too recently) tend to be considered and consider themselves different people.

    At some point the ancestry has to be something, it has to be associated with a specific group of people who interbred for extended periods of time with little outside contribution.

    I remember Jessica Alba had her DNA tested and was confused at the readout of results “Where’s the Mexican?” She was further confused by ‘Spain’ showing up and finding out she was mostly ‘European’. (Since to her, none of her recent ancestors had come from Europe)

    The person guiding her had to explain that ‘Mexican’ wasn’t a definable genetic population due to it’s recent admixture. Instead she got how European and Amerindian she was as those were definable populations and races whose ancestry was easy to identify.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Altai


    I remember Jessica Alba had her DNA tested and was confused at the readout of results “Where’s the Mexican?” She was further confused by ‘Spain’ showing up and finding out she was mostly ‘European’. (Since to her, none of her recent ancestors had come from Europe)
     
    Alba has never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, even among Hollywood actresses.

    She got herself into some compromising situations with black men before she was married, ruining her potential as an A-list sex-symbol (non-black men look down upon girls with blacks in their past), and then chose poorly with The Fantastic Four and other bad projects when she had her chances. And then she took some subtle digs at Paul Walker when they starred in a surfing movie together, hurting the movie's revenues. And then there were some interviews at her home where the celebrity reporters basically implied that Alba's homes and statements were fakes set up by her agents.

    She got married and scaled back her career, but is now divorcing her producer husband. In her 40s, without much brains, and with her looks being cute but unremarkable, she has "Lifetime movie actress" written all over.

    , @Robert Dolan
    @Altai

    Wow....I had no idea that Alba did the same thing as Longoria.....had the same reaction to finding out she's white.

    In fact Alba is 87% European as compared to Longoria at 70%.

    This reveals just how much impact the anti-white brainwashing has had on people.....even rich and attractive celebrities have to be ashamed of being white.

    Of course, a celebrities job description would include kowtowing to TPTB and pushing the anti-white agenda to be able to continue to get work in Hollywood.

    Replies: @awry, @Altai

  45. A more “nuanced” approach might be to break out government reporting of economic statistics not just by white and black, but by, say, Quebec-American vs. Ashkenazi. But I’ll let Dr. Gates suggest that idea…

    Two days in row now–starting out with what will be the best laugh of the day. (Might as well get it out of the way, these are bleak times.) Thanks Steve.

  46. jb says:

    the idea of individual human races with different origins is as farcical as the medieval belief that elves cause hiccups

    Does anybody still believe that there are sharply delineated races with different origins? I think you’d have a hard time finding even the worst sort of Stormfront racist who believes that today. In fact pretty much everybody seems to have the same general understanding of genetics and ancestry that Gates has; they simply draw different conclusions from it. Gates isn’t stupid — he has to know he is strawmanning.

    There is one big reason, one reason only, why the idea that “there is no such thing as race” is so popular and defended so fiercely: it is because it seems to imply that it is impossible, a priori, for white people to be smarter than black people. That’s the biggie! Of course if this understanding were correct it would also imply that it is impossible for white people to be lighter skinned than black people, but it’s very hard to get people so understand this, because motivated reasoning. But if somehow, miraculously, you did manage to force people to understand it, the defense of “there is no such thing as race” would evaporate, because it would no longer serve any purpose.

  47. Alas, poor Gates. What must his students think of his memoir, Colored People, about his youth in West Virginia, which ends tragically with integration?

  48. @Arclight
    As with all things related to race, the attempt to erase biological reality is intended to obscure the fact that there are historical peoples whose achievements and innovations created modernity and others whose ancestors highest achievements were some pottery or masks.

    The US would have a much healthier society if we taught kids they are the inheritors of a great civilization via culture and they should be proud of our history, but that would require blacks to give up on the grievance politics that have granted them political influence far beyond their numbers or economic impact, as well as further assimilation into mainstream cultural norms and white progressive to lose their savior mentality.

    Replies: @Goddard, @Buffalo Joe, @Alrenous

    Western man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large as to be almost inexpressible. It’s Western exploration, science, and conquest that have revealed the world to itself.

    Other races feel like subjects of Western power long after colonialism, imperialism, and slavery have disappeared.

    The charge of racism puzzles whites who feel not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don’t grasp what it really means: humiliation.

    The white man presents an image of superiority even when he isn’t conscious of it.

    And, superiority excites envy.

    Destroying white civilization is the inmost desire of the league of designated victims we call minorities.

    — Joseph Sobran, April 1997

    • Thanks: bomag
  49. @Buffalo Joe
    @Almost Missouri

    Almost Missouri, Gates is also the founder of the Root website which is as pro black and anti white as possible. He is also the cause of obama's "beer summit", where obama basically made the Cambridge, Ma. polce dept. apologize to Gates for simply doing their job. A job that Gates made into a cause when all he had to do was show an ID.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Unladen Swallow

    IIRC, Skippy Gates got his PBS gig shortly after he flipped out on the Cambridge police and the “Beer Summit” nonsense. It was a cover to burnish Skip’s reputation for being an uppity negro professor mad at prole whites for not bowing to him, ahem, “stopping an unknown man from breaking into a house.”

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  50. @Technite78

    But if we can, at the very least, embrace the understanding that race (a toxic social construction) and ancestry (a shared genetic history) are not only distinct but also fundamentally opposed — and teach that in our classrooms — it could go a long way toward freeing us from some of the binds in which scientific racism have trapped us.
     
    This passage is illogical, contradictory, and unscientific, but since it allows Gates to maintain the concept that "race bad, ancestry good" and therefore continue to run his grift at Harvard and PBS, he not only states it publicly, but likely believes it himself.

    Besides, science and logic are also the social constructions of White Supremacy, so not only can you ignore them, you must ignore them.

    Replies: @Rooster13, @stillCARealist, @Bugg, @Poirot

    I think he’s trying to disentangle the political notion of race from the biological reality of ancestry.

    Think of homosexuality: we have same sex attractions, which may be biological. And then we have “gay”, which is purely a political term. We may use them interchangeably, but they’re not necessarily the same thing.

    I seriously doubt, though, that he really wants “Black!” to lose its political power. It’s too bad we don’t have words for separating subtle yet important ideas like woman vs. female, or man vs. male in the racial sphere.

  51. @Altai

    You just said, “trace back equally to sub-Saharan Africa and to Europe.” It’s awfully silly to say that sub-Saharan African ancestry and European ancestry are real, but black and white are not more or less the same things.
     
    Exactly, to be from some population that population has to be defined, a certain level of inter-relatedness between members has to exist for them to exist. People living in the same place but who aren't too inter-related (Either due to some form of effective social endogamy or due to the other group showing up too recently) tend to be considered and consider themselves different people.

    At some point the ancestry has to be something, it has to be associated with a specific group of people who interbred for extended periods of time with little outside contribution.

    I remember Jessica Alba had her DNA tested and was confused at the readout of results "Where's the Mexican?" She was further confused by 'Spain' showing up and finding out she was mostly 'European'. (Since to her, none of her recent ancestors had come from Europe)

    The person guiding her had to explain that 'Mexican' wasn't a definable genetic population due to it's recent admixture. Instead she got how European and Amerindian she was as those were definable populations and races whose ancestry was easy to identify.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Robert Dolan

    I remember Jessica Alba had her DNA tested and was confused at the readout of results “Where’s the Mexican?” She was further confused by ‘Spain’ showing up and finding out she was mostly ‘European’. (Since to her, none of her recent ancestors had come from Europe)

    Alba has never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, even among Hollywood actresses.

    She got herself into some compromising situations with black men before she was married, ruining her potential as an A-list sex-symbol (non-black men look down upon girls with blacks in their past), and then chose poorly with The Fantastic Four and other bad projects when she had her chances. And then she took some subtle digs at Paul Walker when they starred in a surfing movie together, hurting the movie’s revenues. And then there were some interviews at her home where the celebrity reporters basically implied that Alba’s homes and statements were fakes set up by her agents.

    She got married and scaled back her career, but is now divorcing her producer husband. In her 40s, without much brains, and with her looks being cute but unremarkable, she has “Lifetime movie actress” written all over.

  52. @Almost Missouri
    @James N. Kennett

    Agree. Gates's swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on.

    If he really thinks race is just a social construct, yet has yet to act like it on his show.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Robert Dolan, @Element59

    “Agree. Gates’s swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on.”

    The finest example of this is when that stupid witch Eva Longoria was on the show. (She’s made a career out of hating white people….helped Obama when he ran, etc.)

    They revealed Longoria’s DNA was at least 70% white and she was visibly triggered……then she tried to play it off and blabbed on and on about her wonderful 1% african DNA…..and she said she was proud to be part black like the idiot race baiting host.

    This was some of the best kabuki theater I have ever seen.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Robert Dolan

    In the few episodes I have watched these celebrities are always thrilled to find any non European DNA. Paul Ryan was giddy when Gates told him he was 3% Jewish. Marco Rubio was excited when Gates told him he was something like 5% Native American via someone from the Yucatan.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hypnotoad666

    , @mc23
    @Robert Dolan

    Interesting reaction on her part, I would have sure Longoria spent sometime looking at the mirror.

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Robert Dolan

    Longoria dated a younger-than-her black NBA player for a while when she was on Desperate Housewives , MILF attractive, and A-list. She made a big deal of it, showing up at his games, giving interviews about the relationship, and basically going "look at my Mandingo!" to the world.

    Except two things:

    1. When she was first interviewed about the then-ongoing relationship, she casually dropped a diss on him by stating that she had to "teach" him how to please her in the bed room. He (rightfully) flipped out and she issued a retraction about "oh no in the bedroom he's the teacher."

    2. A little while later he ended up cheating on her anyway and she quietly broke up with him.

    So she was a double failure: she'd picked a negro dud-in-the-bedroom and she couldn't even keep him satisfied.

    Whatever dude later married her after all that is such a loser.

  53. Race and culture are heavily intertwined among American negroes. Less so among whites. I’m speculating here but I doubt Gates Irish great great grandfather actually raised the child of his negress and it is even less likely that the half negro child of a white women in pre slavery time was raised by her mother ( likely confirmed by the inability of ancestry researchers to identify either mother or father).

    Given the social realities of pre 20th century America, Gates forbears would have been put in the negro bucket and precluded from advancing his white racial or social characteristics any further until AA came along post 1960. Still, had his ancestors clung to the high yellow caste within the negro race he would have been in a good position both racially and culturally to advance in modern America something that a ”blue gum” like Ben Crump could not aspire to which, in large part, explains why Crump deals with George Floyd types and Gates PBS even if Crump is the richer of the two.

    • Replies: @thenon
    @Unit472

    That social reality was a result of the destruction of the "free persons of color" social status in the south after the civil war. Prior to that unpleasantness, light skinned free negroes were a slave owning insular group that inbred only with other light blacks and the occasional white. They were considered neither black nor white, but had a place in French Creole society. The Civil War destroyed their place in society along with much of the South. George Herriman, the creator of Krazy Kat, Was a member of this newly disenfranchised group and left New Orleans for California to flower in the more open society of 1910s CA.

  54. @Art Deco
    Actually, Finding Your Roots has extensive discussion of each subject's family history. I'm not sure they take DNA samples of all their subjects and it's commonly a small segment of the broadcast.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I’m not sure it’s done 100% of the time, but in every recent episode I’ve seen, they start out with and spend most of the episode on conventional genealogy based on historical records and at the very end they show the guest his DNA results to “fill in the gaps”. Maybe there are some guests who don’t want their DNA taken (I haven’t seen any) but the template for each regular episode calls for DNA results at the end.

    The most hilarious one I recall was Frank Gehry, the architect (nee Goldberg). At the end, Gates asks him how Jewish he thinks he is. He answers “40%?”, chuckling and Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, “I didn’t think I’d be all that Jewish, because emotionally I’m not anymore, I’m sort of international ” as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites (and this comes after Gates has just show him which concentration camps his close relatives had died in). And Dr. Gates doesn’t call him on his insanity – he confirms it and nods and says, “You’re a citizen of the world.”

    You can find the show on the Hoopla platform which (may be) available thru your local public library. It’s Season 3, Episode 5 and the DNA reveal is about 50 minutes in. I searched for this because I wanted to make sure my memory wasn’t playing tricks but Gehry’s words above are transcribed verbatim from the video.

    • LOL: Calvin Hobbes
    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Jack D

    Frank Gehry may not want his Jewishness, but Jewishness (Judaism) wants him. Jews will be eager to claim FG as one of their own. Same way the Poles will claim a famous man, who only has half Polish ancestry.

    Gates' show caters to normal interests, as in who, what, how much is in his/her woodpile? A Harvard prof will never admit this.

    FINDING YOUR ROOTS | Season 3, Episode 5 Preview | PBS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-d5Wx0UUJ0

    , @Barnard
    @Jack D

    It is almost impossible for me to think less of Gehry than I do, but how could he possibly think he was only 40% Jewish and what did he think the other 60% was? Since he is a "citizen of the world" did he think he would come back as 5% Japanese, 5% Sub Saharan, etc.? What a moron, hopefully one day every building he designed will be torn down.

    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    … Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, “I didn’t think I’d be all that Jewish, because emotionally I’m not anymore, I’m sort of international ” as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites …
     
    Gehry’s response sounds like Jack D from not long ago:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/in-todays-edition-of-asian-american-women-writers-on-the-make-frontlashing-whites-over-coronavirus/#comment-3842338 (#246, etc.)


    Jack D says:

    Marx – NOT Jewish. His father converted from Judaism to join the state Evangelical Church of Prussia before he was born.

    Adorno – NOT Jewish as you say – Catholic mother, father converted to Protestantism.

    Derrida – (Sephardic) Jewish.

    Marx and Adorno might have had (partial in case of Adorno) Jewish ancestors but they were not Jewish. They never set foot in a synagogue in their life. Someone who is baptized at birth and attends church is not Jewish regardless of what his ancestors might have been. Children know only the world they are born in. Marx and Adorno were Jewish only in the Nazi sense of racial guilt.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
     


    Jenner Ickham Errican says:

    Really. That person’s DNA changes upon baptism?

    Your example is akin to saying that a child who is given a male identity from birth and is dressed like a boy is not a girl even if that child was born having a vagina and XX chromosomes.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D …
     

    Jack, you didn’t agree with me then, but it looks like you now concur with my reasonable observation.

    Gotta admit, I get a nice feeling when my pro bono counsel does some good. :)

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Jack D

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Jack D

    Identity is not ancestry.

    Marx was right: "tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living”.

  55. @Art Deco
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I would tend to disagree with you inasmuch as Obama was raised in a social environment bereft of blacks bar his grandfather's chum Frank Marshall Davis. (Davis himself was rather an eccentric figure dissimilar from mainstream blacks). When Gov. Blagojevich said 'I'm blacker than Obama', he was speaking the truth.

    Obama married into the black population. To the extent that he's of it, it's from associating with his in-laws and with the social circle to which he was introduced by Valerie Jarrett. That circle is composed of the black population's old patriciate, so foreign to Mooch's upbrining as well as Obama's. The closest Obama gets to mainstream black would be his mother-in-law. His wife has some of the discombobulation you see in people raised in one matrix and living in another, compounded to which is the disorientation induced by race patronage, which hardly effects the life of most blacks but has had an extreme effect on hers. Then you add to that celebrity culture. The daughters have grown up in an artificial environment and who knows what ill-effects it had on them.

    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AceDeuce, @Bardon Kaldian

    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.

    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don’t see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don’t see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.
     
    Agree.

    I enjoyed Art's quip, but it strikes me as off for Obama's personality as well. Bush--W--is the guy you can see selling insurance.

    Obama strikes me as considerably more introverted. I could see him being a professor at Oberlin or somewhere else and dragging Sheila along for the ride. Or a State Department gig you mention.

    Obama is actually not a "salesman" or "natural politician". He's always attracted the attention of good whites. But he got some very fortuitous breaks--and help--to have an electoral political career at all. Then Jewish Democrats decided he was the sort black they wanted and could sell to diversify the Presidency--as opposed to the Jesse Jackson type. Blundering Biden pretty much summed it up:

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man."
     
    And good whites at it up. Look at us, we're voting for a black man!

    Obama was "close enough" for the blacks, and catnip for good whites. But a natural politician or salesman type--not really.

    Replies: @eded, @Jmaie

    , @Bugg
    @Jack D

    I imagine in his quiet time not being struck with Big Mike and her annoying mom looking to buy more primo oceanfront realty with his barely-earned money, Obama's alternate timeline finds him as a lazy overpaid law professor with an acute CV in African studies, spending his days on an overstuffed couch abutting an Ivy quadrangle, perhaps watching PBS anitiqiuing shows with his good friends; what was the ring about? https://conservativefighters.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/obama-sofa-boyfriend-370x302.jpg

    The photo has never been disputed, just 2 "close" guys , on a couch, watching...the NBA, right! Speaking of "social construct", the fraud's whole career is one.

    , @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    I think Obama was destined for greater things.

    Obama's notable for not being interested in much of anything aside from golf, college basketball, and hanging with celebrities. I assume some of his interests are a function of the life he's led since 1983. I don't think BigLaw is plausible because he was just never that driven. The Foreign Service in Obama's era wrote their examination to collar people with a broad liberal education - think Wm. F. Buckley as an intense specimen. I wouldn't entirely rule that out for Obama, but I would not rule it in.

    Insurance popped into my head because that was his grandfather's last attempt at earning a living. Obama I think is more of a generic NGO administrator type. Sheila Jager is on the Oberlin faculty and colleges like that often grease the skids for faculty spouses, and, of course, there are other schools in commuting distance.

    Before she sank into the mire, Gloria Steinem produced some engaging magazine journalism. In that capacity, she's notable as one of the few people ever to induce Pat Nixon to say anything interesting in front of someone who wasn't a family member, and had a satisfactory hypothesis about what made the Nixons tick as a couple. Not sure anyone's really sussed out the Obamas similarly.

    Replies: @Jack D, @PaceLaw

  56. When the facts are known, often times that can be explained in different ways. For example, Ptolemy and Copernicus explained their data in different ways. Likewise, Gates and Sailer explain their data in different ways.

  57. Netflix would have you believe ancient Greece, Rome and medieval Sweden had perhaps 10-15% black populations.

    You never had your own countries Whyte pipos!!!!

    P.S. Wonder if a tiny bit o’medias’ muh Russia hate is because it’s still so white therebouts,?

  58. @James N. Kennett
    In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term "our people", referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @mc23, @AceDeuce, @turtle, @Corvinus, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Poirot

    Any white American or European who used the same term ( “our people”) to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Welp, the way out is for someone to actually do it, and to not apologize for it, and to double down on it, and when the usual suspects make their move, for “our people” to rise up en masse and tell the people howling for blood to GFY, and refuse to play along.

    Easier said than done, I know. But that’s eventually how it’ll play out–probably when it’s too late, but…

    That’s one thing that I saw in Trump early on. He has moved the Overton Window some as far as making Whites feel somewhat empowered to stand up for themselves. He fkd up big time with the nigro pandering during his term–I’m sure that was his [email protected] daughter and her (((husband))), who both have schitt for brains.

    Rights are acquired by giving them to yourself. Unity and will are force multipliers. even stupid negroes know that. Time for YT to rediscover it. That’s the only way.

  59. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    If you mean “race” as in the part that actually is “socially constructed”, i.e. how you are “seen” and fit in your society, then i can more or less agree with that. (In America, anyway, in some cultures it may be more complicated.)

    If you mean “race” as in actual biological race, then no. Biological race is way, way more than looks plus culture. Looks doesn’t even begin to cover it.

    ~~

    Not sure the point of the “would bang” photo. Fred Reed has done this a few times as well. “Hey look at this cute Mexican girl what would you like to do with her?” Well duh.

    Skin tone issues with photographs aside, obviously this woman will be “white” in the colloquial American sense. Danny Thomas an Arab–and good guy–was white in this American sense as well. (Way back in the dark ages of the mid 20th century!) Iranians are “Caucasians” and ergo group with Europeans in the big 3 (or 5 or 7) racial breakdown. Doesn’t mean they have the same characteristics mentally as NW Europeans–America’s founding stock.

    Of course, if such a gal was in minoritarian America, she might well insist she was not “white” but “Persian” or a “person of color”. (Another wonderful benefit of this toxic ideology.)

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @AnotherDad

    "Not sure the point of the “would bang” photo."

    There is no point to it. It neither proves nor disproves anything.

    We know a family where the mother is half Korean. Their two daughters were/are in the same grades as my two daughters their entire school careers. So the daughters are each 1/4 Korean. Dad is 100% or near enough pure Irish.

    The older daughter looks mestizo; her skin is a very light brown naturally and facially she has no Asian features. The younger daughter is as pasty white as her two parents, but has more east Asian shaped eyes. With sunglasses on she would pass for Irish. No one would ever think the two girls were sisters.

    What's the point? Nothing really, other than genes get mixed and sometimes you get Iranian women who look like they're from NW Europe and you get Asian girls who look like mestizos. It proves nothing.

  60. Obama had that crazy bowling score of 37 for 7 frames. (And then he ridiculed bowling by likening it to The Special Olympics, thus callously denigrating The Special Olympics.) Maybe bowling works better than DNA testing. Maybe there was something about evolutionary conditions in Africa that gave you genes that didn’t work well for bowling.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @SafeNow

    SafeNow, barack was buff and michelle was beautiful. Say it over and over and over.

  61. @prosa123
    @PhysicistDave

    They should therefore be called “mixed race.”
    We do this for people who are half East Asian, half Caucasian.


    Some half-Asian/half-Caucasian people may actually consider themselves Asian, but we wouldn't really notice because there isn't a self-contained, separate Asian culture in the US beyond first generation immigrants - very few of whom are mixed. Second and to some extent 1.5 generation Asian immigrants generally blend into the mainstream culture, whether they're Hapa or full Asian, and just because a Hapa might check the "Asian" box on a form or survey doesn't mean they're not part of the mainstream culture.

    Another issue is that Hapas don't derive any tangible benefits from identifying as full Asian because they're unlikely to qualify for affirmative action.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I agree that most Hapas don’t. My next door neighbor is 1/2 S. Asian and grew up in the Midwest, but she looks and acts 100% white (no one would mistake her for a Swede but she could pass for any sort of southern European) – she has a white husband, white kids, etc. and no connection to the Indian community. Once she told me about how she had to go to India once for her grandmother’s funeral and she described it exactly the way a Midwestern lady would describe it – what a filthy disgusting poverty stricken place it was, how she couldn’t wait to get out of there. Maybe in even more brutally honest terms because a goodwhite lady wouldn’t want to seem “racist” by describing India in those terms, but she didn’t feel that she had to pull any punches.

    However there is a small % of Hapas who are “professional Asians” (the way that Obama is a “professional Negro”. Their lack of 100% Asian ancestry has the paradoxical effect of making them identify MORE with their Asian side and they become Asian “activists” and so on.

    This is true of pretty much any identity, racial or otherwise – either you can wear your identity as a Southerner or a gay or a woman or a doctor lightly, as just one minor data point in your life, or else you can make it the defining focus of your life. Of course if there are financial benefits from doing so then the motivation is even stronger, but there are people who do stuff like this even when there is no \$ to be gained, just a sense of “belonging” somewhere in an increasingly atomized, globalized world.

    • Replies: @Mr. Grey
    @Jack D


    Their lack of 100% Asian ancestry has the paradoxical effect of making them identify MORE with their Asian side and they become Asian “activists” and so on.
     
    I've noticed this with blacktivists. The loudest and angriest ones are lightskinned biracial women with daddy issues (from their black father abandoning them) who grew up in a nice quiet suburb with a white mom.
  62. Wikipedia is run by leftists. When you look at Wikipedia biographies, they always get into race and ethnicity, when the information is available. Example, I see a mixed race European soccer player. I am curious where in Africa his parents or parent is from. A former French or British colony? Was it the mother or father who is black? Another example: A famous physicist from WW2. Was he Jewish, and from where in Europe?

    The same is going on with Gates’ project. People want to know, or his show would not be popular. Gates doth protest too much, spin away HLG, to amuse everyone else on this planet.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Clyde

    True, just take a look at the list of the wikipedia admins

    https://pastebin.com/Y27Gdsq4

    and you'll see they are all leftists.

  63. @Art Deco
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I would tend to disagree with you inasmuch as Obama was raised in a social environment bereft of blacks bar his grandfather's chum Frank Marshall Davis. (Davis himself was rather an eccentric figure dissimilar from mainstream blacks). When Gov. Blagojevich said 'I'm blacker than Obama', he was speaking the truth.

    Obama married into the black population. To the extent that he's of it, it's from associating with his in-laws and with the social circle to which he was introduced by Valerie Jarrett. That circle is composed of the black population's old patriciate, so foreign to Mooch's upbrining as well as Obama's. The closest Obama gets to mainstream black would be his mother-in-law. His wife has some of the discombobulation you see in people raised in one matrix and living in another, compounded to which is the disorientation induced by race patronage, which hardly effects the life of most blacks but has had an extreme effect on hers. Then you add to that celebrity culture. The daughters have grown up in an artificial environment and who knows what ill-effects it had on them.

    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AceDeuce, @Bardon Kaldian

    Speaking of Obunghole and his mama-in-law (AKA the “Grifter Granny”, go and read Grifter Granny’s totally unselfconscious racism inthe accounts of when Moosechelle wasfirst dating him. Before she brought him home to meet the parents early on in their relationship, she told them that BO was half White, and Grifter Granny recounted frankly that she was not at all happy, and had serious reservations, even without having met him, about her daughter even casually dating a half White man, much less getting serious with him.

    I never read any criticism about that by the White newsmedia, much less the nigro coconut telegraph media.

    P.S. Where did Grifter Granny go? She was in the White Hut for 8 years living on our dime. Did BO return her to the same rental company that he borrowed the kids from?

  64. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    What do you mean by “real Iranian, not a convert” ?

    I am confused; how does one convert to Iranian?

    • Replies: @tyrone
    @Greysquirrell


    I am confused; how does one convert to Iranian?
     
    .......Listen to a lot of Cat Stevens records?
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Greysquirrell

    I miswrote, I thought "not a European Islamic convert living in Iran".

  65. @James N. Kennett
    In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term "our people", referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @mc23, @AceDeuce, @turtle, @Corvinus, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Poirot

    When will Harvard have a German-American Studies Department?
    I mean, there are a lot of us, and our ancestors have, uh, you know, done lots of stuff,
    Are we not worth “studying?” WTF, man?

    • Replies: @Flip
    @turtle

    Well, they do have the Busch-Reisinger Museum of German art.

  66. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    I'm not sure it's done 100% of the time, but in every recent episode I've seen, they start out with and spend most of the episode on conventional genealogy based on historical records and at the very end they show the guest his DNA results to "fill in the gaps". Maybe there are some guests who don't want their DNA taken (I haven't seen any) but the template for each regular episode calls for DNA results at the end.

    The most hilarious one I recall was Frank Gehry, the architect (nee Goldberg). At the end, Gates asks him how Jewish he thinks he is. He answers "40%?", chuckling and Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, "I didn't think I'd be all that Jewish, because emotionally I'm not anymore, I'm sort of international " as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites (and this comes after Gates has just show him which concentration camps his close relatives had died in). And Dr. Gates doesn't call him on his insanity - he confirms it and nods and says, "You're a citizen of the world."

    You can find the show on the Hoopla platform which (may be) available thru your local public library. It's Season 3, Episode 5 and the DNA reveal is about 50 minutes in. I searched for this because I wanted to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks but Gehry's words above are transcribed verbatim from the video.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Barnard, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Bardon Kaldian

    Frank Gehry may not want his Jewishness, but Jewishness (Judaism) wants him. Jews will be eager to claim FG as one of their own. Same way the Poles will claim a famous man, who only has half Polish ancestry.

    Gates’ show caters to normal interests, as in who, what, how much is in his/her woodpile? A Harvard prof will never admit this.

    FINDING YOUR ROOTS | Season 3, Episode 5 Preview | PBS

  67. @AnotherDad
    @Bardon Kaldian


    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.
     
    If you mean "race" as in the part that actually is "socially constructed", i.e. how you are "seen" and fit in your society, then i can more or less agree with that. (In America, anyway, in some cultures it may be more complicated.)

    If you mean "race" as in actual biological race, then no. Biological race is way, way more than looks plus culture. Looks doesn't even begin to cover it.

    ~~

    Not sure the point of the "would bang" photo. Fred Reed has done this a few times as well. "Hey look at this cute Mexican girl what would you like to do with her?" Well duh.

    Skin tone issues with photographs aside, obviously this woman will be "white" in the colloquial American sense. Danny Thomas an Arab--and good guy--was white in this American sense as well. (Way back in the dark ages of the mid 20th century!) Iranians are "Caucasians" and ergo group with Europeans in the big 3 (or 5 or 7) racial breakdown. Doesn't mean they have the same characteristics mentally as NW Europeans--America's founding stock.

    Of course, if such a gal was in minoritarian America, she might well insist she was not "white" but "Persian" or a "person of color". (Another wonderful benefit of this toxic ideology.)

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    “Not sure the point of the “would bang” photo.”

    There is no point to it. It neither proves nor disproves anything.

    We know a family where the mother is half Korean. Their two daughters were/are in the same grades as my two daughters their entire school careers. So the daughters are each 1/4 Korean. Dad is 100% or near enough pure Irish.

    The older daughter looks mestizo; her skin is a very light brown naturally and facially she has no Asian features. The younger daughter is as pasty white as her two parents, but has more east Asian shaped eyes. With sunglasses on she would pass for Irish. No one would ever think the two girls were sisters.

    What’s the point? Nothing really, other than genes get mixed and sometimes you get Iranian women who look like they’re from NW Europe and you get Asian girls who look like mestizos. It proves nothing.

  68. I’ve learned to expect the BIG LIE when our power elite and ruling class change the words used to describe reality. The substitution of “ancestry” for “race” is one example.

    (BTW, if one asks oneself the rather obvious question, “Why not use the scientifically precise term ‘clade’?”, the answer is obvious that it immediately leads one back to the dangerous concepts of “sub-species and from thence to “race”.)

    OT warning: When “The Ukraine” became “Ukraine” a little less than a decade ago, I suspected that a new plot by the US hegemon was afoot. When “Kiev” suddenly became “Keev” within the last two weeks, I realized that every recent word regarding the Russian-Ukrainian War, emanating from the MSM and “official” hegemon sources, was a lie, including “a”, “an”, and “the”.

    • Replies: @Stealth
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Kind of like how Qatar became “Gutter” all of a sudden back during the war on terror.

  69. When Dr Gates had Larry David on his show and told him he had slave owner ancestors in the South, Larry laughed it right off and gave a joke “my apologies,” to Gates.

  70. @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.
     
    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don't see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Bugg, @Art Deco

    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don’t see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.

    Agree.

    I enjoyed Art’s quip, but it strikes me as off for Obama’s personality as well. Bush–W–is the guy you can see selling insurance.

    Obama strikes me as considerably more introverted. I could see him being a professor at Oberlin or somewhere else and dragging Sheila along for the ride. Or a State Department gig you mention.

    Obama is actually not a “salesman” or “natural politician”. He’s always attracted the attention of good whites. But he got some very fortuitous breaks–and help–to have an electoral political career at all. Then Jewish Democrats decided he was the sort black they wanted and could sell to diversify the Presidency–as opposed to the Jesse Jackson type. Blundering Biden pretty much summed it up:

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”

    And good whites at it up. Look at us, we’re voting for a black man!

    Obama was “close enough” for the blacks, and catnip for good whites. But a natural politician or salesman type–not really.

    • Agree: usNthem, Peter Johnson
    • Replies: @eded
    @AnotherDad

    What did Biden mean by "clean" in his Obama comments? Did he mean uncorrupt compared to other black politicians? Was he actually referring to hygiene? What was he getting at? I've never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Charon, @Rob, @Charlotte, @AceDeuce

    , @Jmaie
    @AnotherDad


    Obama was “close enough” for the blacks, and catnip for good whites. But a natural politician or salesman type–not really.
     
    Maybe not a natural politician but he was very good at it. He could give a speech to five different people and and have all five walk away thinking he'd spoken only to their particular policy preference. And the most amazing thing was that my goodwhite friends couldn't see it even when I pointed out the specifics.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  71. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    She has done her makeup to accentuate, hair color, hairstyle to look much more north European than she really is. I predict that without all these, she looks like the average Iranian woman in Tehran. Though not the countryside, where she would be getting more sun.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Clyde

    I visited Tehran a few times working, back in the day.

    The people there mainly looked "White" though some were more Arab looking or Central Asian (Mongol/Turkic aspect). Black Sea area peoples were pretty White looking.

    As I also visited Egypt and Libya, I would say that the Iranians tended to look more European than the more MENA looking North Africans.

    A lot of different peoples and groups traveled through Persia/Iran. Jews, Greeks, Romans, Baltics, Central Asians. Many different ruling groups and local rulers. Slaves, traders, soldiers, spouses, etc.

    Where homo sapiens travel DNA gets mixed pretty quickly. Male warriors, travelers, traders, pilgrims all get pretty horny on the road. Effective birth control not available until the 1950s.

    Northern Europeans (like me) have some percentage of Neanderthal DNA. Now that's "one step beyond." But nonetheless, seemed appealing to some at the time...

  72. I saw the episode where ol Skip got his DNA test results back saying he was 1/2 white. He was visibly upset. It was quite amusing.

  73. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don’t see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.
     
    Agree.

    I enjoyed Art's quip, but it strikes me as off for Obama's personality as well. Bush--W--is the guy you can see selling insurance.

    Obama strikes me as considerably more introverted. I could see him being a professor at Oberlin or somewhere else and dragging Sheila along for the ride. Or a State Department gig you mention.

    Obama is actually not a "salesman" or "natural politician". He's always attracted the attention of good whites. But he got some very fortuitous breaks--and help--to have an electoral political career at all. Then Jewish Democrats decided he was the sort black they wanted and could sell to diversify the Presidency--as opposed to the Jesse Jackson type. Blundering Biden pretty much summed it up:

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man."
     
    And good whites at it up. Look at us, we're voting for a black man!

    Obama was "close enough" for the blacks, and catnip for good whites. But a natural politician or salesman type--not really.

    Replies: @eded, @Jmaie

    What did Biden mean by “clean” in his Obama comments? Did he mean uncorrupt compared to other black politicians? Was he actually referring to hygiene? What was he getting at? I’ve never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @eded


    I’ve never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?
     
    I don't think Biden ever explained that.

    He was saying, "not 100% Black!" and not cultural Negro.
    , @Charon
    @eded

    That quote is proof [as though any more were needed] that as long as it's "our guy" in office, he's permitted to say and do absolutely anything.

    Can you imagine an even slightly "badwhite" politician saying that about Obama? They'd come after his family once they were through ruining him.

    , @Rob
    @eded

    Yeah, I took “clean” to mean corruption and scandal-free. The media was unwilling to admit that every other black pol should just be assumed to be taking bribes, so they pretended that Biden thought black pols have not heard of soap. Biden’s a Democrat, so he couldn’t say that most black pols are corrupt. If Biden had not said that, it’s unlikely, though not impossible, Obama would have tapped him for VP.

    I wonder if Harris was trying to pull a Biden on Biden when she “called him out” on his opposition to forced busing back in the sixties. It was a gotcha, I guess, but no one supports busing these days. Its former supporters have decided they were right, but “the country was not ready.” So, the day after the debate, Harris clarified that she does not support busing, either. “Senator, you showed courage, foresight, restraint, and leadership! That’s wrong!”

    It shows that the Democrats are in a tough spot. None of their seven dwarves had any appeal outside their niche, gay, female, black...with other Democrats, to say nothing of swingers, er, swing voters. It does give me some hope that Democrats are learning Trump’s lesson. The party that tilts the country back toward actually producing things will have a huge advantage. If Donald Trump could win on bringing back jobs and expelling aliens, then a normal-ish person could get a 2/3 majority. Note, normal person, not politician. No politician could survive the donors putting all their money and whispers against his opponent. Regardless, at least Biden seems to realize that we need to reshore industries. Otherwise, when China takes Taiwan, they don’t have to worry about sanctions. They can sanction the West. We need silicon chips more than China needs wastepaper and scrap metal.

    Replies: @res

    , @Charlotte
    @eded

    I’m not 100% sure myself, but I don’t think he meant literal cleanliness. Probably it was more that Obama often acts like an upper middle class white guy with an academic bent rather than a typical “black” politician. In America, “black politician” tends to be synonymous with “black activist,” and black activists (successful ones, anyway) tend to make a big deal out of being culturally black. Black culture tends to be perceived as low class, at least by older white voters-I’m not sure that’s still true with younger whites.

    Class and race and culture all figure into how Americans perceive each other, but they don’t map onto each other exactly. With help from the media, 2008 Obama managed to emphasize his class and culture to whites while playing up his race to black voters. It worked really well because good whites don’t want to have to think about race, while blacks put a lot of emphasis on it.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    , @AceDeuce
    @eded

    By "clean" he meant his demeanor, his overall self-presentation. You say you're not American, so not sure how helpful this is but JFK was regarded similarly as the first "clean" Irish politiciam in America.

    Before him Irish pols were either little red nosed leprechaun looking men with hard to decipher accents, or big Tip O'Neill size fatasses with wrinkled suits sprinkled with cigar ashes and food stains. All of them were cheerfully and openly corrupt, drunk half the time, and sloppily sentimental to a fault. JFK was cool, well tailored and groomed, Harvard degree, spoke well, and was in command of his emotions.

    As much as I dislike the whole family, Mario Cuomo was the same thing for Italians. Not a mobster or an organ grinder.

    Niggrows, of course, are the worst--black politicians and preachers were/are walking jokes. Even Martin Loofah Kink was a bloviating bullshit artist with a sordid personal life. (Dying was a good career move.) His own people-other niggrow activists, referred to him behind his back as "De Lawd" for all his grandiose hot air.

    Obama, despite his weird facial features, is a "cool" niggrow with no rough edges. He's more scrawny than trim, but, with a well tailored suit on, he looks fine. His voice is good, although he's not a good speaker, but he does avoid the emotional incontinence of blacks, and has no niggrow accent-except his fake one used to pander.

    Replies: @bomag

  74. However there is a small % of Hapas who are “professional Asians” (the way that Obama is a “professional Negro”. Their lack of 100% Asian ancestry has the paradoxical effect of making them identify MORE with their Asian side and they become Asian “activists” and so on.

    True, but the key word is that it’s a small percentage. In fact I’d say just about trivial.

    • LOL: 3g4me
  75. hey if this stuff wasn’t confusing we wouldn’t need all those gender and ethic studies phD’s to help explain it.

  76. @Jack D
    @prosa123

    I agree that most Hapas don't. My next door neighbor is 1/2 S. Asian and grew up in the Midwest, but she looks and acts 100% white (no one would mistake her for a Swede but she could pass for any sort of southern European) - she has a white husband, white kids, etc. and no connection to the Indian community. Once she told me about how she had to go to India once for her grandmother's funeral and she described it exactly the way a Midwestern lady would describe it - what a filthy disgusting poverty stricken place it was, how she couldn't wait to get out of there. Maybe in even more brutally honest terms because a goodwhite lady wouldn't want to seem "racist" by describing India in those terms, but she didn't feel that she had to pull any punches.

    However there is a small % of Hapas who are "professional Asians" (the way that Obama is a "professional Negro". Their lack of 100% Asian ancestry has the paradoxical effect of making them identify MORE with their Asian side and they become Asian "activists" and so on.

    This is true of pretty much any identity, racial or otherwise - either you can wear your identity as a Southerner or a gay or a woman or a doctor lightly, as just one minor data point in your life, or else you can make it the defining focus of your life. Of course if there are financial benefits from doing so then the motivation is even stronger, but there are people who do stuff like this even when there is no $ to be gained, just a sense of "belonging" somewhere in an increasingly atomized, globalized world.

    Replies: @Mr. Grey

    Their lack of 100% Asian ancestry has the paradoxical effect of making them identify MORE with their Asian side and they become Asian “activists” and so on.

    I’ve noticed this with blacktivists. The loudest and angriest ones are lightskinned biracial women with daddy issues (from their black father abandoning them) who grew up in a nice quiet suburb with a white mom.

  77. Gates stars in a recent NY Times video arguing that the murder of Trayvon Martin started the Black Lives Matter movement.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Roger


    Gates stars in a recent NY Times video arguing that the murder of Trayvon Martin started the Black Lives Matter movement.
     
    Correction: Justified homicide of Trayvon Martin in self-defense.
    , @Calvin Hobbes
    @Roger

    Thanks. I found that hard to watch. 6 minutes and 52 seconds of 100% lying.

    Replies: @Roger

    , @acementhead
    @Roger


    "...the murder of Trayvon Martin..."
     
    Trayvon Martin was not murdered, his death was caused by completely and obviously justified self defence.

    The Trayvon Hoax is well worth watching. It is free to see(or used to be) at

    https://www.thetrayvonhoax.com/film/
    , @Art Deco
    @Roger

    In a just world, that would tank Gates' reputation. He either runs his mouth knowing nothing of the case or he begins with the assumption that obstreperous black youths have a franchise to beat up people who annoy them, and us peasants are getting above ourselves if we avail ourselves of our antique right of self-defense.

    And you can see the assumptions. Gates fancies that black advancement comes from protest movements which induce politicians to grant patronage (e.g. a franchise to beat people up), rather than from people in their mundane lives acquiring salable skills and personal discipline.

  78. Seems like a first step in strategically redefining what they’ve always said to sneakily come out on the right side of reality in the end.

    Talk about race will be allowed, just with ancestry as the key word, while race will come to mean something ridiculous that it never did, like every single European having blue eyes and blonde hair.

  79. @Arclight
    As with all things related to race, the attempt to erase biological reality is intended to obscure the fact that there are historical peoples whose achievements and innovations created modernity and others whose ancestors highest achievements were some pottery or masks.

    The US would have a much healthier society if we taught kids they are the inheritors of a great civilization via culture and they should be proud of our history, but that would require blacks to give up on the grievance politics that have granted them political influence far beyond their numbers or economic impact, as well as further assimilation into mainstream cultural norms and white progressive to lose their savior mentality.

    Replies: @Goddard, @Buffalo Joe, @Alrenous

    Arc, the ‘Agree’ button isn’t strong enough for your comment. Gates would be who? if he wasn’t born in America. He has carved out a nice life churning the race pot, which of course, does not exist.

    • Thanks: Arclight
    • Replies: @Mark G.
    @Buffalo Joe


    Gates would be who? if he wasn’t born in America.
     
    The best place to be a black person is in a white country. I doubt that Asians or Hispanics would be as tolerant of them when they act up and cause problems. Fortunately, Africa is far away from the U.S. so we won't have to deal with large migration flows from there. For Europe, though, African immigration is an existential threat to the continued existence of a high standard of living there.

    This makes it important that whites think in terms of their common cultural heritage and common political heritage rooted in the ideas of the European Enlightenment rather than solely in terms of belonging to a certain ethnic group. If European whites keep focusing on busily killing each other, as happened in two world wars in the last century and is still happening right now in the Ukraine, they will lose their civilization.
  80. “…the Enlightenment”, obviously inferior to the Endarkenment.

  81. No comments at the nyt for Gates’ opinion piece. The comments make these op-eds.

  82. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Have her stripped, washed, and brought to my tent.

  83. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    I'm not sure it's done 100% of the time, but in every recent episode I've seen, they start out with and spend most of the episode on conventional genealogy based on historical records and at the very end they show the guest his DNA results to "fill in the gaps". Maybe there are some guests who don't want their DNA taken (I haven't seen any) but the template for each regular episode calls for DNA results at the end.

    The most hilarious one I recall was Frank Gehry, the architect (nee Goldberg). At the end, Gates asks him how Jewish he thinks he is. He answers "40%?", chuckling and Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, "I didn't think I'd be all that Jewish, because emotionally I'm not anymore, I'm sort of international " as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites (and this comes after Gates has just show him which concentration camps his close relatives had died in). And Dr. Gates doesn't call him on his insanity - he confirms it and nods and says, "You're a citizen of the world."

    You can find the show on the Hoopla platform which (may be) available thru your local public library. It's Season 3, Episode 5 and the DNA reveal is about 50 minutes in. I searched for this because I wanted to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks but Gehry's words above are transcribed verbatim from the video.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Barnard, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Bardon Kaldian

    It is almost impossible for me to think less of Gehry than I do, but how could he possibly think he was only 40% Jewish and what did he think the other 60% was? Since he is a “citizen of the world” did he think he would come back as 5% Japanese, 5% Sub Saharan, etc.? What a moron, hopefully one day every building he designed will be torn down.

  84. @Buffalo Joe
    @Arclight

    Arc, the 'Agree' button isn't strong enough for your comment. Gates would be who? if he wasn't born in America. He has carved out a nice life churning the race pot, which of course, does not exist.

    Replies: @Mark G.

    Gates would be who? if he wasn’t born in America.

    The best place to be a black person is in a white country. I doubt that Asians or Hispanics would be as tolerant of them when they act up and cause problems. Fortunately, Africa is far away from the U.S. so we won’t have to deal with large migration flows from there. For Europe, though, African immigration is an existential threat to the continued existence of a high standard of living there.

    This makes it important that whites think in terms of their common cultural heritage and common political heritage rooted in the ideas of the European Enlightenment rather than solely in terms of belonging to a certain ethnic group. If European whites keep focusing on busily killing each other, as happened in two world wars in the last century and is still happening right now in the Ukraine, they will lose their civilization.

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  85. @Robert Dolan
    @Almost Missouri

    "Agree. Gates’s swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on."

    The finest example of this is when that stupid witch Eva Longoria was on the show. (She's made a career out of hating white people....helped Obama when he ran, etc.)

    They revealed Longoria's DNA was at least 70% white and she was visibly triggered......then she tried to play it off and blabbed on and on about her wonderful 1% african DNA.....and she said she was proud to be part black like the idiot race baiting host.

    This was some of the best kabuki theater I have ever seen.

    Replies: @Barnard, @mc23, @R.G. Camara

    In the few episodes I have watched these celebrities are always thrilled to find any non European DNA. Paul Ryan was giddy when Gates told him he was 3% Jewish. Marco Rubio was excited when Gates told him he was something like 5% Native American via someone from the Yucatan.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Barnard

    Rubio's siblings aren't quite as white-looking as him.

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Barnard

    I did 23 and me (mainly because they were advertising that their genomic sequencing could be used for health reasons). My ancestry came back 100% White Guy, with some B.S. allocation between German, English and Scandinavian. I have to admit it was somehow disappointing to get such a boring result.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  86. Except that the Race Does Not Exist belief is largely a fairly recent concoction. As far as I can tell, it suddenly leapt to dogma during Bill Clinton’s 2000 Rose Garden ceremony for the Human Genome Project, mostly due to entrepreneur Craig Venter’s blustering speech in which he claimed: “In the five Celera genomes, there is no way to tell one ethnicity from another.”

    Of course, since then, tens of millions of people have had their ethnic ancestry measured to three significant digits by commercial DNA firms such as Ancestry.com. But that hasn’t much impeded the rise to dominance of Venterism.

    “Venterism”?

    Steve, you’re come up with some really great tags and turns of phrase–“coalition of the fringes”, “World War T”, “hate hoax”, “affordable family formation” are just ones that pop to mind. But “Venterism” is laughable.

    The whole psuedo-scientific attack on actual Anglo-Saxon science–and simple barnyard common sense–notions of race and genetics (and IQ to boot), is an almost wholly owned Jewish operation and has been going on a very long time. (Deny white accomplishment, denigrate white gentiles, blame white racism for black dysfunction, break national solidarity, deny national identity, balkanize the joint and of course provide an excuse for elites and their apparatchiks to leverage state power against white gentiles and push minoritarianism.)

    Venter was just echoing the ideology already in place. Venter could have spent his life surfing and all this stuff would be exactly the same. If you want a nametag for the psuedo-scientific genetic denialism seems like Lewontin is a good pick. (Critics have even slapped his name on his fallacy.) Call it “Lewontinism.” Or i suppose the lower wattage Gould–the bigger popularizer–could be your guy.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @AnotherDad

    BTW, one funny aspect to this is that regular blacks, overwhelmingly do not think that "race is a social construct". Not in the slightest.

    They may blame whitey for black folks problems--many do. But blacks do not think that being black is just "the color of their skin" or "socially constructed". They are sort of essentialist. Blackness is internal and deep. They've got soul and you (i.e. white guys like me) don't. And they like being black. It's "who they are". I have yet to meet a black person who thinks they are "just like white people only with dark skin". I'm sure some must exist, but AFAICT only clueless white people believe that nonsense.

    Blacks spouting genetic denialism--just running a grift. Usually as part of a comfy sinecure, associated with state power ... and your taxes.

    , @Corvinus
    @AnotherDad

    "The whole psuedo-scientific attack on actual Anglo-Saxon science–and simple barnyard common sense–notions of race and genetics (and IQ to boot), is an almost wholly owned Jewish operation and has been going on a very long time."

    Oh, boy, here we go again with this nonsense.

    In biological taxonomy, race is an informal rank in the taxonomic hierarchy for which various definitions exist. We have seen that races may be genetically distinct populations of individuals within the same species, or they may be defined in geographical or physiological categories. Forensic anthropologists (and geneticists) are employing the term “genetic ancestry”. Genomes from reference populations around the globe have been collected, with the most diversity found in African populations. “There is much more diversity between them than the combined African genome would have between the European genome,” says Nicolas Robine, director of computational biology at the New York Genome Center (NYGC), a nonprofit academic research institution that serves as a collaborative hub for genomic research. “The proportion that is variable is very small, compared to that which is common to everybody.”

    https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/forensic.2021.0004

    http://eknygos.lsmuni.lt/springer/657/281-316.pdf

    Indeed, race is partially based on physical similarities within groups that are patently obvious to the naked eye, but it was assigned by us–human beings–to have an inherent physical or biological meaning. Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time.

    –In the 1700’s, Carl Linnaeus four “varieties” of humans (Europaeus albus, Americanus rubescens, Asiaticus fuscus, and Africanus niger), even going so far as to specify behavioral characteristics–Americanus as “unyielding, cheerful, free”; Europaeus as “light, wise, inventor”; Asiaticus as “stern, haughty, greedy”; and Africanus as “sly, sluggish, neglectful”. Clearly, Linnaeus was basing these characteristics on social conventions.

    –In the early 1800’s, Samuel Morton used his collection of human skulls to link the size and shape of them to correlate each with intelligence, and his imagined hierarchy was employed by white Northerners and Southerns to justify slavey.

    –Then there is Louis Agassiz who touted that different races of humanity were of different origins.

    –My personal favorite, however, is Madison Grant.

    Source –> https://www.dartmouth.edu/~hist32/History/White.htm


    “Between 1880 and WWI, the United States experienced large waves of European immigration. These “new immigrants” however did not come from northern Europe and represented a frightening diversity to many. The difference perceived in these immigrants was frequently described as a racial difference in which Europeans were represented as, not one, but many races identified by region (Alpine, Mediterranean, Slavic and Nordic) or by alleged head shape (roundheads, slopeheads). Madison Grant, a biologist and curator for the American Museum of Natural History in New York explained in his book “The Passing of the Great Race that White Americans”, the great race, were losing out to hordes of inferior European immigrants. Grant’s book was so popular it experienced 7 reprints before WWII. According to Grant, “These new immigrants were no longer exclusively members of the Nordic race as were the earlier ones…The transportation lines advertised America as a land flowing with milk and honey and the European governments took the opportunity to unload upon careless, wealthy and hospitable America the sweepings of their jails and asylums…Our jails, insane asylums and almshouses are filled with this human flotsam and the whole tone of american life, social, moral and political has been lowered and vulgarized by them.”
     
    So, which taxonomy ought to be the “standard”? Are all somehow on equal intellectual and biological footing, or is one more precise compared to the rest?

    Stated another way, from a psychological standpoint, we have an easier time identifying and sympathizing with people who look like us or who belong to the same in-group as us, even though that grouping ultimately was constructed arbitrarily. Again, in the 1800 and 1900’s race group divisions were based on skin color and physical appearance according to scientists, and then divided into white, black, yellow, and red. Then scientists stated there were more gradient subtypes based on other characteristics.

    So, where is this line drawn between “the races”? Does it not lead to a potential fractioning all the way down to the individual? Think about it. Attempts to divide humanity into race has used as few as three, then up to more than thirty. Humans have been migrating back and forth across the continents for over 200,000 years. Genetic traits have been mixed and remixed over and over. To me, in the end, how many races of humans exist depends on one’s meaning of the word…race.

    Replies: @bomag

  87. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Her’s my stab at summing up what I think Steve’s “ancestry group” theory of race means.

    Visually identifiable differences are what people use to define “race” in everyday affairs. These visual identifiers absolutely do correlate with Continent-level ancestry groups as they existed ten thousand years ago at least. And these ancestry groups also have different distributions of behavioral and intellectual traits (although these are not supposed to be acknowledged.)

    But the ancestry lineages themselves are the true scientific definitions of “race.” The visual differences are just evidence of the ancestry. And the underlying differences in physiology and behavior are just side effects of the ancestry.

    The generalizations that people experience and expect regarding people who “look” like they have a certain ancestry could be called the “socially constructed” part of “race.” But that still wouldn’t mean race (ancestry) is “just” the social construct. Or that the social constructs surrounding race aren’t based in part on real differences.

    Mixed race/ancestry people, or edge cases who don’t look like their ancestry are just distractions.

    • Thanks: Calvin Hobbes, AnotherDad
    • Replies: @FBIstats
    @Hypnotoad666

    Light eyed, blondish (people with light to medium brown hair are often called "blond" in the middle east) are not too unusual in the north of Iran, especially Azerbaijan. Many have features and general looks that are indistinguishable from European. That's a subjective impression so I won't estimate stats. As in many countries, you get different looks in different areas.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Hypnotoad666

    Yes and no. Having in mind that the concept of race is essentially that of "breed", it has been used in varying meanings in the past 500 years (European colonization) & it is not necessary to insist on the term "race". We can use species or sub-species & nothing will change.

    Also, we should take into account that until the 20th C no one knew anything about genetics, and especially population genetics, so we should avoid both retro-jecting our notions on the 17th C or the 19th C with their Alpine, Mediterranean, Nordic... "races", which is also obsolete.

    Psychologically & culturally, it is evident that the dominant narrative among Europeans, in the past 4 or so centuries have been that of a "breed" - hence the contempt of French aristocrats for most of the French people. French aristocracy has, until the 1789 revolution, tried to prove that their ruling position is somehow historically justified because they are descendants of the conquering "race" or breed, so they should have all the privileges because they had been history's winners. Evidently, this has virtually nothing to do with looks, because French dukes, counts ... didn't look any different from French merchants or taylors.

    So, there are a few dimensions to "race": breed or ancestry; looks; social-historical interpretation of ancestry, somehow connected with religion or dominant culture (Spanish "purity of blood", limpieza de sangre)- and now we have popular genetic genealogy.

    My take is that from the broad democratization of Western societies, somewhere from the mid 19th C to WW1, "race" has become mostly looks plus culture (language, religion, history). Nazis were not typical in their views on race; they were an extremist fringe rooted in the 19th C obsolete Lombroso-Gobineau type of racial thinking (Celtic race; Saxon race; ..) & post-WW2 aversion to racism is the direct consequence of their totalitarian genocidal excesses.

    But, for the democratic mainstream among Europeans, race has, since the beginning of the 20th C, been mostly about looks, followed by language-culture-religion. Only very race sensitive/crazy people are obsessing about skulls or shape of the nose. Our perception of "out group" is the following: first looks; then language; and then culture, religion, history.

    We don't have to go into some deep investigation to see what we already know: Vietnamese brought up in American families are not whites/Europeans, they are Asians judging just from looks; with blacks, it's even more.

    One can adopt an African baby & raise it in Sweden & she will remain black, not typically Swedish. In case they adopt a child from Portugal, she is Swedish 100%. No one will care if she has a more olive skin. Or a baby from Caucasian Afghanistan or Tajikistan. Mentally sane people will treat them mostly as slightly exotic Swedes, while they wouldn't treat adopted Africans or east Asians as "Swedes".

    So, in the modern world - it's the looks that come first & cannot be altered. That's why crazies like Rachel Dolezal go for looks.

    And, as far as population genetics goes- liberals or leftists are intelligent enough, sometimes, to dismiss it as anything relevant and continue to insist that race (even popular ancestry) is something that doesn't exist or is superficially interpreted, as Gates seems to try to say. Their way of thinking is: witch hunts were real, although witches have never existed.

    A smarter defense of race denialism can be seen here (it's about ancient and modern Greeks, but can be extrapolated): https://qr.ae/pGdW5w

  88. @Old Prude
    More gibberish from Gates. Catholic apologetics and intelligent design theory are far more sophisticated and convincing than the opaque blathering of this over-paid shyster.

    From what I gather, one can tell Mr. Gates that he's not black, and that would be correct? Right?

    I'm not black. I wouldn't understand.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz

    I watch the show regularly, and it can be pretty good except it seems that every time he has a black person on, they are shocked to find that some of their ancestors were slaves. Who’d have guessed? And then they often cry while he consoles them about how their ancestors worked their way out of slavery, etc. Judging by the guests on the show, America is 50% black, 40% Jewish, and the rest Asian, Hispanic and occasionally European.

  89. @Roger
    Gates stars in a recent NY Times video arguing that the murder of Trayvon Martin started the Black Lives Matter movement.
    https://youtu.be/C1kTEit6-qw

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Calvin Hobbes, @acementhead, @Art Deco

    Gates stars in a recent NY Times video arguing that the murder of Trayvon Martin started the Black Lives Matter movement.

    Correction: Justified homicide of Trayvon Martin in self-defense.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
  90. @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don’t see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.
     
    Agree.

    I enjoyed Art's quip, but it strikes me as off for Obama's personality as well. Bush--W--is the guy you can see selling insurance.

    Obama strikes me as considerably more introverted. I could see him being a professor at Oberlin or somewhere else and dragging Sheila along for the ride. Or a State Department gig you mention.

    Obama is actually not a "salesman" or "natural politician". He's always attracted the attention of good whites. But he got some very fortuitous breaks--and help--to have an electoral political career at all. Then Jewish Democrats decided he was the sort black they wanted and could sell to diversify the Presidency--as opposed to the Jesse Jackson type. Blundering Biden pretty much summed it up:

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man."
     
    And good whites at it up. Look at us, we're voting for a black man!

    Obama was "close enough" for the blacks, and catnip for good whites. But a natural politician or salesman type--not really.

    Replies: @eded, @Jmaie

    Obama was “close enough” for the blacks, and catnip for good whites. But a natural politician or salesman type–not really.

    Maybe not a natural politician but he was very good at it. He could give a speech to five different people and and have all five walk away thinking he’d spoken only to their particular policy preference. And the most amazing thing was that my goodwhite friends couldn’t see it even when I pointed out the specifics.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Jmaie

    Jmaie, we give politicians too much credit for their speeches. They deliver them, but do they write them? Big difference.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  91. Modern establishment thought is schizophrenic.

    On the one hand, we are to believe every single thing that the white-coat brigade tells you about microbiology and genetics as it pertains to – most notably – infectious disease. Trust the Science! We are infallible and the products of our science are safe and effective. If you question us in any way, you are “anti-science”.

    On the other hand, that self-same science is to be ignored when it confirms traditional, common understanding of race and ancestry. If you believe that genetic science is actually true and has any real-world consequences then you are “anti-science”.

  92. @Robert Dolan
    @Almost Missouri

    "Agree. Gates’s swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on."

    The finest example of this is when that stupid witch Eva Longoria was on the show. (She's made a career out of hating white people....helped Obama when he ran, etc.)

    They revealed Longoria's DNA was at least 70% white and she was visibly triggered......then she tried to play it off and blabbed on and on about her wonderful 1% african DNA.....and she said she was proud to be part black like the idiot race baiting host.

    This was some of the best kabuki theater I have ever seen.

    Replies: @Barnard, @mc23, @R.G. Camara

    Interesting reaction on her part, I would have sure Longoria spent sometime looking at the mirror.

  93. @Seamus

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she’s Muslim. Of course she’s not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not “white”?

     

    Of course. She is literally Aryan.

    Replies: @mc23

    Her ancestors who continued on to the Indian sub-continent are enshrined in the Hindu-Pantheon

  94. @Art Deco
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I would tend to disagree with you inasmuch as Obama was raised in a social environment bereft of blacks bar his grandfather's chum Frank Marshall Davis. (Davis himself was rather an eccentric figure dissimilar from mainstream blacks). When Gov. Blagojevich said 'I'm blacker than Obama', he was speaking the truth.

    Obama married into the black population. To the extent that he's of it, it's from associating with his in-laws and with the social circle to which he was introduced by Valerie Jarrett. That circle is composed of the black population's old patriciate, so foreign to Mooch's upbrining as well as Obama's. The closest Obama gets to mainstream black would be his mother-in-law. His wife has some of the discombobulation you see in people raised in one matrix and living in another, compounded to which is the disorientation induced by race patronage, which hardly effects the life of most blacks but has had an extreme effect on hers. Then you add to that celebrity culture. The daughters have grown up in an artificial environment and who knows what ill-effects it had on them.

    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.

    Replies: @Jack D, @AceDeuce, @Bardon Kaldian

    I know what you write about, but I generally- disagree. It is natural that nowadays people try to get to the roots with genetic testing, but the central issue behind race thinking (if it is not perverted as was the case with Nazis) is- these people fundamentally don’t look like my extended tribe. We don’t marry them because they are evidently “not we” and we don’t want their progeny to move among ourselves because they’re more “them” than “we”.

    Bizarre outliers don’t change much.

    I didn’t say that culture was of no importance, but it is secondary to looks, i.e. biological reality.

    Only among racially ambiguous people may culture be the prevalent element in dropping the issue of race & embracing those people as “we”, without some weird practices like skull measurement. For instance, Mongoloid eyes of Lenin and Yeltsyn are of secondary importance because most Europeans don’t think of them as Asians; if pressed, most regular Europeans would say that Lenin was an exotic Caucasian with some Asian features, but, basically “we” in terms of race & culture.

    It is easier with most Asians or even more with Middle Easterners because they are not that different from white Europeans. That’s how Volga Tatars have become “exotic Caucasians”:
    Africans differ too much from Europeans, so that their mixture with other types always pulls to the black side, simply due to the fact that Negro look is very different from white or (east) Asian ones.

    It isn’t for nothing that Canadians have the category of “visible minority”.

    So, depending on where one is a lumper or a splitter, we can divide people:

    a) white Caucasian (Europeans)

    b) ambiguously white, or “exotic” Caucasians (mostly middle Easterners and “white Hispanics”, plus some white-Asian mixture). Here culture comes into play – whether a person belongs to the European civilization or not. When he says “we”, does he mean all the stuff from Homer to Chopin & the rest.

    c) American Indians who are easily recognized as being non-Europeans. Those mixed, who are visibly b) category & are a part of Western civilization are Caucasians, or a subcategory of them.

    d) the same goes for South and east Asians. They are different, visually and frequently culturally (in the US).

    e) blacks remain blacks, due to their very different looks. We judge people, as far as racial looks go, as being contrasted with generic white phenotype. So, in the US, those ambiguous people may stick out more than in Greece or Italy simply because they are, if we look at them carefully- “not we”. Euro-Asian mixes can, phenotypically, more easily become “white”, in perhaps 2 generations, if they blend in white cultural community.

    It may seem that Brazil is wiser with their pardos, quadroons, octoroons … and I agree, to a certain extent. But it also boils down to, mostly- looks. I am not talking about race hustlers, but about ordinary, normal people. If you are racially ambiguous, slightly, and you belong to European culture- you are Caucasian.

    But in the case of Obama, he’s too visually different from the “white template” & assigning him a “white-African” mixed person label, although technically correct, would be wrong. Here phenotype, in my view, trumps culture. That he doesn’t live among “real blacks” is of no importance. “Africanness” is simply more difficult to reconcile with “whiteness”, which is, say, 80% looks and 20% culture.

    Simply- African-others mixes are fundamentally different from others-whites mixes. If not for very exclusive “other” culture, Caucasian- others’ offspring or their progeny may much more smoothly transition into the Caucasian category.

    Not so with Africans or part-Africans. 

    Obama’s children, if he married white, would not be in the Lenin-like category of ambiguous Caucasians.

  95. @Technite78

    But if we can, at the very least, embrace the understanding that race (a toxic social construction) and ancestry (a shared genetic history) are not only distinct but also fundamentally opposed — and teach that in our classrooms — it could go a long way toward freeing us from some of the binds in which scientific racism have trapped us.
     
    This passage is illogical, contradictory, and unscientific, but since it allows Gates to maintain the concept that "race bad, ancestry good" and therefore continue to run his grift at Harvard and PBS, he not only states it publicly, but likely believes it himself.

    Besides, science and logic are also the social constructions of White Supremacy, so not only can you ignore them, you must ignore them.

    Replies: @Rooster13, @stillCARealist, @Bugg, @Poirot

    If you carry the “social contruct” idea to it’s logical conclusion, then race, being really nothing, does not matter.But the leap he won’t make is , therefore, we cannot have racial set asides, accomodations and affirmative action since race doesn’t matter. If you buy into his premise, there’s no way around that.ulitmate conclusion. He won’t do that. Though lucky for us Justice O’Connor’s “25 years” ends in 2028 so we are close to ending AA, right?

  96. @Blinky Bill
    https://twitter.com/Daniel_Soff/status/1499887536067555328?s=20&t=xleYhU5D8VJ2WlWvWNQdfw

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AnotherDad

    I’m surprised 😉

    “In the last 10 years, since the Somalis and the Congolese came to London, they taught us a whole new level of violence”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190328225442/http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/how-londons-knife-culture-is-being-fueled-by-jargon-social-media-and-music-a3579396.html

  97. Both of my sisters are into genealogy. I don’t care. My older sister did Ancestry and my younger 23andme. My older sister has the family tree for 3/4 of the family with some going back to the late 1600’s.
    I am eligible for membership in the Daughters of the Texas Republic because we are direct descendants of Austin’s 300. The only thing I knew about Austin at the time I was told was it is the capital of Texas.

    My younger sister is 99.3% European with an H Haplogroup. She is .3% S. Asian. No Africans.
    The three of us don’t look much alike but we sound alike which confused our boyfriends when we answered the phone in high school.

    When I traveled to Italy, people addressed me in Italian. When I traveled to Spain, people spoke to me in Spanish. When I traveled to Mexico, people assumed I was American and not Mexican. When I traveled to Scandinavian countries with my husband, people spoke to us in the local language. Husband is tall and fair. When I traveled to South Africa, people did not think I was black. In Russia, people spoke to me in Russian.

    I watched HLG once. It was boring. I didn’t know who the star was either.
    I am glad that Black History Month is over.

  98. @Roger
    Gates stars in a recent NY Times video arguing that the murder of Trayvon Martin started the Black Lives Matter movement.
    https://youtu.be/C1kTEit6-qw

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Calvin Hobbes, @acementhead, @Art Deco

    Thanks. I found that hard to watch. 6 minutes and 52 seconds of 100% lying.

    • Replies: @Roger
    @Calvin Hobbes

    Hard to watch, but this is the world we live in.

  99. @Observator

    hoping, among other things, to find out where their ancestors hail from
     
    DNA “testing” seems like yet another narcissistic trend in a postmodern culture that has traded respect for the individual for infatuation with the ego, to the exclusion of common sense, the national community and most else. Not so long ago most people didn’t concern themselves knowing what year they were born in, let alone who their g-g-g-g-g-granddaddy was or where he came from. Genealogies started as inventions of the powerful royalty and nobility who cobbled together the fantasy of “distinguished bloodlines” in order to empower them to rule (i.e., steal from) everyone else. This seems another case of the hoi polloi aping their “betters” while denying the reality of how class determines their roles in the great land of freedom and equality.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Muggles, @James J O'Meara

    Sorry your mama was a streetwalker and your daddy a drunk.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Art Deco

    OTOH: Observator will be ready for the next big blues revival.

    https://youtu.be/GU636wOUdFU

  100. @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.
     
    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don't see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Bugg, @Art Deco

    I imagine in his quiet time not being struck with Big Mike and her annoying mom looking to buy more primo oceanfront realty with his barely-earned money, Obama’s alternate timeline finds him as a lazy overpaid law professor with an acute CV in African studies, spending his days on an overstuffed couch abutting an Ivy quadrangle, perhaps watching PBS anitiqiuing shows with his good friends; what was the ring about?
    The photo has never been disputed, just 2 “close” guys , on a couch, watching…the NBA, right! Speaking of “social construct”, the fraud’s whole career is one.

  101. @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    Imagine an alternate time line where he married Sheila Jager and runs an insurance agency in Lorain, Ohio.
     
    I think Obama was destined for greater things. He certainly could have had a white wife and ended up as a Deputy Ambassador in the State Dept. or become a Big Law partner in their Dubai or Singapore office but I don't see him as happy living in Ohio and selling liability and casualty insurance.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Bugg, @Art Deco

    I think Obama was destined for greater things.

    Obama’s notable for not being interested in much of anything aside from golf, college basketball, and hanging with celebrities. I assume some of his interests are a function of the life he’s led since 1983. I don’t think BigLaw is plausible because he was just never that driven. The Foreign Service in Obama’s era wrote their examination to collar people with a broad liberal education – think Wm. F. Buckley as an intense specimen. I wouldn’t entirely rule that out for Obama, but I would not rule it in.

    Insurance popped into my head because that was his grandfather’s last attempt at earning a living. Obama I think is more of a generic NGO administrator type. Sheila Jager is on the Oberlin faculty and colleges like that often grease the skids for faculty spouses, and, of course, there are other schools in commuting distance.

    Before she sank into the mire, Gloria Steinem produced some engaging magazine journalism. In that capacity, she’s notable as one of the few people ever to induce Pat Nixon to say anything interesting in front of someone who wasn’t a family member, and had a satisfactory hypothesis about what made the Nixons tick as a couple. Not sure anyone’s really sussed out the Obamas similarly.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    OK, so Obama gets a gig as a law professor at Case Western and eventually they make him the dean. That would work. I don't think there are too many head of Harvard Law Review guys selling insurance, even adjusting for AA.

    Obama was not much like his grandpa. If anything, he took more after his grandma who became a VP at a bank. I could also see Obama as a banker, but on a higher level than his grandma, who lacked a college education. He would be a business development type guy who took clients out golfing a lot and would leave the number crunching to his S. Asian underlings.

    Replies: @We, @Art Deco

    , @PaceLaw
    @Art Deco

    “I don’t think BigLaw is plausible because he was just never that driven.”

    All in all, I agree with your take. Obama doesn’t really strike me as the type who would ever want to bill 60+ hours a week and have to work on weekends, thus cutting into his time to watch sports on TV.

    However, I could definitely see him excelling in the role of a rainmaker for a big firm. I don’t like Obama and never voted for him, but I will acknowledge that he appears to have a natural charisma and is a gifted speaker. He would’ve been a natural at schmoozing and charming the captains of industry around the world.

  102. @Lex
    It's time for the first Melanesian POTUS. Now that would be interesting.

    https://truenorth.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Sepik-River-Initiation-683x1024-1.jpg

    Would news anchors refer to someone like that as 'NOT black President' to dispel confusion?

    Replies: @tyrone

    State dinners would be interesting (hint:skip the meat course).

  103. @Altai

    You just said, “trace back equally to sub-Saharan Africa and to Europe.” It’s awfully silly to say that sub-Saharan African ancestry and European ancestry are real, but black and white are not more or less the same things.
     
    Exactly, to be from some population that population has to be defined, a certain level of inter-relatedness between members has to exist for them to exist. People living in the same place but who aren't too inter-related (Either due to some form of effective social endogamy or due to the other group showing up too recently) tend to be considered and consider themselves different people.

    At some point the ancestry has to be something, it has to be associated with a specific group of people who interbred for extended periods of time with little outside contribution.

    I remember Jessica Alba had her DNA tested and was confused at the readout of results "Where's the Mexican?" She was further confused by 'Spain' showing up and finding out she was mostly 'European'. (Since to her, none of her recent ancestors had come from Europe)

    The person guiding her had to explain that 'Mexican' wasn't a definable genetic population due to it's recent admixture. Instead she got how European and Amerindian she was as those were definable populations and races whose ancestry was easy to identify.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Robert Dolan

    Wow….I had no idea that Alba did the same thing as Longoria…..had the same reaction to finding out she’s white.

    In fact Alba is 87% European as compared to Longoria at 70%.

    This reveals just how much impact the anti-white brainwashing has had on people…..even rich and attractive celebrities have to be ashamed of being white.

    Of course, a celebrities job description would include kowtowing to TPTB and pushing the anti-white agenda to be able to continue to get work in Hollywood.

    • Replies: @awry
    @Robert Dolan

    "This reveals just how much impact the anti-white brainwashing has had on people…..even rich and attractive celebrities have to be ashamed of being white."

    Same thing occurred in Mexico long before the US. Mexico is founded on the 1911 Freemason Revolution, not very different from the Bolshevik one on Russia (including mass murdering priests and Christian believers). It was de facto one party state since then, except a short period. It's ruling ideology is cultural leftist (and Mexico City's current mayor is a Jewish woman descended from Communist Latvian Jews - whose Communist ideologies didn't prevent them from making a living as Capitalist businessmen of course).
    Mexico's elite tend to be more Euro looking than the peasantry, but even the elite has to badmouth Spanish colonialist/conquistador heritage - Cortes' statue was removed long ago from its former prominent place etc. - and they are LARPing as if they were pure descendants of Aztecs)

    , @Altai
    @Robert Dolan

    I can't fine the video so maybe I got them mixed up but other ones I found of her had her still expressing shock finding out she was so 'European'.

  104. @Greysquirrell
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What do you mean by "real Iranian, not a convert" ?

    I am confused; how does one convert to Iranian?

    Replies: @tyrone, @Bardon Kaldian

    I am confused; how does one convert to Iranian?

    …….Listen to a lot of Cat Stevens records?

  105. “We need a new language…”

    Is Professor Gates a weak or a strong Sapir-Whorfian?

  106. It’s time to move on Steve. blackity black is over for eleven months,.

    Richard Moore, the chief of MI6, told us what the priorities are.
    It’s sodomy.

    With the tragedy and destruction unfolding so distressingly in Ukraine, we should remember the values and hard won freedoms that distinguish us from Putin, none more than LGBT+ rights. So let’s resume our series of tweets to mark #LGBTHM2022.

  107. Gates/Curran: “Given our country’s history of scientific racism — and all of the horrible crimes and abuses that African Americans have been subjected to in the name of science — the fact that race is a social invention and not a biological reality cannot be repeated too much.”

    I thought that that circle of Red anti-scientists, which included Steven Jay Gould, Leon Kamin, Steven Rose and Richard Lewontin invented the hoax, whereby “scientific racism” supported the idea of race, and “race is a social construct” circa 1981, when Gould published his masterpiece of scientific fraud, The Mismeasure of Man. I read Mismeasure in early 1990, along with an IQ debate book pitting Kamin against H.J. Eysenck (whom I ignored at the time), and they cost me nine years of my life, until I learned in 1999 that everything they said was a lie, including “and” and “the” (thank you, Mary McCarthy!).

    By the way, everything in Gates’ paragraph above is also a lie.

  108. @the one they call Desanex
    I, Henry Louis “Skip” Gates Junior, of Harvard =
    Yup! I hoard various jars of skin lightener!

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Desi, Junior has been replaced by II, III, IV and V on the back of football shirts.

  109. anonymous[357] • Disclaimer says:

    Lots of diversity in this photo. https://t.co/7Fsy7xQNIf— Soledad O'Brien (@soledadobrien) March 5, 2022

  110. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not “white”?

    Sure, I would (if you consider me sane). Whites are people from Europe. She is Aryan, but she is not White. If you believe that White is looks + culture/social mores, then it’s very easy to for her non-European culture and customs to put her outside of the White category.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Pop Warner

    I've interacted with enough Iranians to say their culture isn't as alien as you think. Most don't even like Islam.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @occasional lurker
    @Pop Warner

    If your definition of "White" is "European" (unlike that of the US Census, but like that of the wokesters) ), just say "European"or even "North European" or whatever it is that you are talking about. In old style scientific racism, White was pretty much synonymous with what today's population geneticists call West Eurasians plus North African. Jew, Arabs and Iranians were White to Hitler (although not all of them were "Aryan").

  111. @Observator

    hoping, among other things, to find out where their ancestors hail from
     
    DNA “testing” seems like yet another narcissistic trend in a postmodern culture that has traded respect for the individual for infatuation with the ego, to the exclusion of common sense, the national community and most else. Not so long ago most people didn’t concern themselves knowing what year they were born in, let alone who their g-g-g-g-g-granddaddy was or where he came from. Genealogies started as inventions of the powerful royalty and nobility who cobbled together the fantasy of “distinguished bloodlines” in order to empower them to rule (i.e., steal from) everyone else. This seems another case of the hoi polloi aping their “betters” while denying the reality of how class determines their roles in the great land of freedom and equality.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Muggles, @James J O'Meara

    Are you familiar with the Old Testament? It is mainly full of discussion about ancestors. Ancient histories are full of that too.

    Of course pre literate populations (or elite literate only) had no way of documenting family histories.

    Land titles were usually based on family history. Why wouldn’t this be a main focus for nearly everyone? Instead you suggest some kind of selfish elite mentality. Very odd.

    In my case, my surviving family members only learned about some family history via DNA, which located members we were unaware of before. Misrepresentation by my father, for instance, and the discovery of a “half family” as a result none of us still living knew about. The big shoot out at my grandmother’s wedding. Fun stuff…

    The interest in DNA and family history is grounded in everyone’s favorite subject: themselves.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Muggles

    The interest in DNA and family history is grounded in everyone’s favorite subject: themselves.

    It isn't and it isn't.

    Replies: @Muggles

  112. anonymous[357] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    @Observator

    Sorry your mama was a streetwalker and your daddy a drunk.

    Replies: @anonymous

    OTOH: Observator will be ready for the next big blues revival.

  113. @Greysquirrell
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What do you mean by "real Iranian, not a convert" ?

    I am confused; how does one convert to Iranian?

    Replies: @tyrone, @Bardon Kaldian

    I miswrote, I thought “not a European Islamic convert living in Iran”.

  114. Almost nobody in America is aware that recent DNA studies have shown that people who self-identify as white tend to have only tiny amounts of black ancestry on average. When you think about it, that’s perfectly understandable, but who thinks about it?

    Is this even true (are there that many in absolute terms)? IIRC, one of the popular DNA test sites used to pick on whites in the American South by including a figure of “less than or equal to 1% Sub-Saharan ancestry” to their results which is technically true for everyone in the world with 0% Sub-Saharan ancestry. You could see other shenanigans going on with fractional DNA “noise.”

    My guess is that in most cases these small numbers of shared DNA represent a few people who became black over time via exogamy (“going native”) rather than whites having a lineal black ancestor in the U.S.

    Otherwise I would think these fractions originate from a few vestigial Latin cultures in the U.S., as in Louisiana, where there is a true creole culture in which there are very light skinned, finer featured blacks who over time can “pass” as white – or in the case of women, light skinned and attractive enough for a white man to take the social risk (which is much lower in New Orleans than Boston). Former CNN anchor Suzanne Malveaux comes to mind – light skin, fine features, light eyes, straight hair and looks vaguely tan in the summer.

    I think DNA is very, very good at mapping consanguinity between living people – i.e., it can tell you with near perfect accuracy who your sixth cousin on your mother’s side is if the testing sites have enough close DNA material samples to both of you.

    But the percentages of ancestry are really just telling you that you share DNA with some percentage of people who themselves at some point self-reported as a certain ethnicity. That original self-reporting is just as liable to family shames and family lore as anyone’s.

    In other words, my TV show Finding Your Roots has nothing about race, it’s just about ancestry. Race and ancestry are fundamentally opposed because reasons.

    This is going to be a challenge in the coming decades, assuming that Affirmative Action is not outlawed in all spheres outright. American blacks are going to need to start defining what constitutes “black” for socio-political purposes. The fact that a DNA test can put a definite number on one’s “Sub-Saharan” ancestry takes away a lot of wiggle room.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)


    But the percentages of ancestry are really just telling you that you share DNA with some percentage of people who themselves at some point self-reported as a certain ethnicity.
     
    This is a very critical point. I'm glad you brought it up because, due to my reputation around here, nobody would pay attention to it if I had said it, but it remains true.

    Since the baseline is itself uncertain, there is no way of knowing what exactly these genetic ancestry tests are actually saying.

    I took a 23andMe test about 6 years ago, and I too got the anomalous 1% African origin ratio. They said that I had one African ancestor sometime in the 1700s. That would have been rather hard to pull off, considering that I had no ancestors in North America in the 1700s. At that time all my ancestors were in what was then the Kingdom of Bohemia, and there weren't too many blacks wandering around.
  115. @AnotherDad


    Except that the Race Does Not Exist belief is largely a fairly recent concoction. As far as I can tell, it suddenly leapt to dogma during Bill Clinton’s 2000 Rose Garden ceremony for the Human Genome Project, mostly due to entrepreneur Craig Venter’s blustering speech in which he claimed: “In the five Celera genomes, there is no way to tell one ethnicity from another.”

    Of course, since then, tens of millions of people have had their ethnic ancestry measured to three significant digits by commercial DNA firms such as Ancestry.com. But that hasn’t much impeded the rise to dominance of Venterism.

     

    "Venterism"?

    Steve, you're come up with some really great tags and turns of phrase--"coalition of the fringes", "World War T", "hate hoax", "affordable family formation" are just ones that pop to mind. But "Venterism" is laughable.

    The whole psuedo-scientific attack on actual Anglo-Saxon science--and simple barnyard common sense--notions of race and genetics (and IQ to boot), is an almost wholly owned Jewish operation and has been going on a very long time. (Deny white accomplishment, denigrate white gentiles, blame white racism for black dysfunction, break national solidarity, deny national identity, balkanize the joint and of course provide an excuse for elites and their apparatchiks to leverage state power against white gentiles and push minoritarianism.)

    Venter was just echoing the ideology already in place. Venter could have spent his life surfing and all this stuff would be exactly the same. If you want a nametag for the psuedo-scientific genetic denialism seems like Lewontin is a good pick. (Critics have even slapped his name on his fallacy.) Call it "Lewontinism." Or i suppose the lower wattage Gould--the bigger popularizer--could be your guy.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Corvinus

    BTW, one funny aspect to this is that regular blacks, overwhelmingly do not think that “race is a social construct”. Not in the slightest.

    They may blame whitey for black folks problems–many do. But blacks do not think that being black is just “the color of their skin” or “socially constructed”. They are sort of essentialist. Blackness is internal and deep. They’ve got soul and you (i.e. white guys like me) don’t. And they like being black. It’s “who they are”. I have yet to meet a black person who thinks they are “just like white people only with dark skin”. I’m sure some must exist, but AFAICT only clueless white people believe that nonsense.

    Blacks spouting genetic denialism–just running a grift. Usually as part of a comfy sinecure, associated with state power … and your taxes.

    • Agree: bomag
  116. @Hypnotoad666
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Her's my stab at summing up what I think Steve's "ancestry group" theory of race means.

    Visually identifiable differences are what people use to define "race" in everyday affairs. These visual identifiers absolutely do correlate with Continent-level ancestry groups as they existed ten thousand years ago at least. And these ancestry groups also have different distributions of behavioral and intellectual traits (although these are not supposed to be acknowledged.)

    But the ancestry lineages themselves are the true scientific definitions of "race." The visual differences are just evidence of the ancestry. And the underlying differences in physiology and behavior are just side effects of the ancestry.

    The generalizations that people experience and expect regarding people who "look" like they have a certain ancestry could be called the "socially constructed" part of "race." But that still wouldn't mean race (ancestry) is "just" the social construct. Or that the social constructs surrounding race aren't based in part on real differences.

    Mixed race/ancestry people, or edge cases who don't look like their ancestry are just distractions.

    Replies: @FBIstats, @Bardon Kaldian

    Light eyed, blondish (people with light to medium brown hair are often called “blond” in the middle east) are not too unusual in the north of Iran, especially Azerbaijan. Many have features and general looks that are indistinguishable from European. That’s a subjective impression so I won’t estimate stats. As in many countries, you get different looks in different areas.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @FBIstats

    As in many societies, it does seem like the more European-looking individuals are over-represented in the elites. Cause or Effect? Who knows. Kemel Ataturk, for example, had light hair and light green eyes. He could have passed for German or British, no problem.

    https://st.depositphotos.com/2863841/4302/i/950/depositphotos_43022045-stock-photo-ataturk-prtrait.jpg

  117. @Clyde
    @Bardon Kaldian

    She has done her makeup to accentuate, hair color, hairstyle to look much more north European than she really is. I predict that without all these, she looks like the average Iranian woman in Tehran. Though not the countryside, where she would be getting more sun.

    Replies: @Muggles

    I visited Tehran a few times working, back in the day.

    The people there mainly looked “White” though some were more Arab looking or Central Asian (Mongol/Turkic aspect). Black Sea area peoples were pretty White looking.

    As I also visited Egypt and Libya, I would say that the Iranians tended to look more European than the more MENA looking North Africans.

    A lot of different peoples and groups traveled through Persia/Iran. Jews, Greeks, Romans, Baltics, Central Asians. Many different ruling groups and local rulers. Slaves, traders, soldiers, spouses, etc.

    Where homo sapiens travel DNA gets mixed pretty quickly. Male warriors, travelers, traders, pilgrims all get pretty horny on the road. Effective birth control not available until the 1950s.

    Northern Europeans (like me) have some percentage of Neanderthal DNA. Now that’s “one step beyond.” But nonetheless, seemed appealing to some at the time…

    • Agree: Old Prude
  118. @eded
    @AnotherDad

    What did Biden mean by "clean" in his Obama comments? Did he mean uncorrupt compared to other black politicians? Was he actually referring to hygiene? What was he getting at? I've never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Charon, @Rob, @Charlotte, @AceDeuce

    I’ve never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    I don’t think Biden ever explained that.

    He was saying, “not 100% Black!” and not cultural Negro.

  119. @turtle
    @James N. Kennett

    When will Harvard have a German-American Studies Department?
    I mean, there are a lot of us, and our ancestors have, uh, you know, done lots of stuff,
    Are we not worth "studying?" WTF, man?

    Replies: @Flip

    Well, they do have the Busch-Reisinger Museum of German art.

  120. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    I think Obama was destined for greater things.

    Obama's notable for not being interested in much of anything aside from golf, college basketball, and hanging with celebrities. I assume some of his interests are a function of the life he's led since 1983. I don't think BigLaw is plausible because he was just never that driven. The Foreign Service in Obama's era wrote their examination to collar people with a broad liberal education - think Wm. F. Buckley as an intense specimen. I wouldn't entirely rule that out for Obama, but I would not rule it in.

    Insurance popped into my head because that was his grandfather's last attempt at earning a living. Obama I think is more of a generic NGO administrator type. Sheila Jager is on the Oberlin faculty and colleges like that often grease the skids for faculty spouses, and, of course, there are other schools in commuting distance.

    Before she sank into the mire, Gloria Steinem produced some engaging magazine journalism. In that capacity, she's notable as one of the few people ever to induce Pat Nixon to say anything interesting in front of someone who wasn't a family member, and had a satisfactory hypothesis about what made the Nixons tick as a couple. Not sure anyone's really sussed out the Obamas similarly.

    Replies: @Jack D, @PaceLaw

    OK, so Obama gets a gig as a law professor at Case Western and eventually they make him the dean. That would work. I don’t think there are too many head of Harvard Law Review guys selling insurance, even adjusting for AA.

    Obama was not much like his grandpa. If anything, he took more after his grandma who became a VP at a bank. I could also see Obama as a banker, but on a higher level than his grandma, who lacked a college education. He would be a business development type guy who took clients out golfing a lot and would leave the number crunching to his S. Asian underlings.

    • Replies: @We
    @Jack D

    What a stupid post. You dont really believe that someone who won two national elections would just be a law professor at Case Western if he were black. The idea that some elite cabal selected Obama and could get him elected President of the United States twice is absurd. The man won over 50 million votes in 50 different states. He won the votes of all kinds of people - black, white, hispanic, asian, old young, Northern and Southern.

    Kamala Harris is a former Senator and California AG who punches a lot of the same buttons as Obama. She will never be President - she just doesnt have the "it" factor. Voters of all stripes don't like her.

    Obama, as are all of the people who have ever been elected president, is a unicorn.Live with it.

    Replies: @prosa123

    , @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    He was appended to Jager before he went to law school. His association with Jager was during his last act as a roughly normal person. (Though, even then, he had a strange and useless job working for some Alinskyite outfit).

    Obama's never had much interest in the law per se and it's a reasonable inference that he was employed as an academic because it was the line of least resistance - more agreeable than actually practicing law and in a venue where the administration was willing to dispense with ordinary procedures in order to bring him on board. He taught electives the whole time, __ & the Law, published nothing.

    Obama's not like his grandmother. She was practical and prudent, navigated the labor market well, was forgiving of her husband's shortcomings, and avoided the pitfalls of their odd domestic situation. She was by all accounts not the least bit exhibitionistic or interested in celebrity. Her most notable failure in life was her daughter, who was a woman of deficient character.

    Replies: @Robert Dolan, @AnotherDad

  121. The logical contortions in that article are so extreme it is painful to read, with the author attempting to simultaneously acknowledge that scientifically races do exist (pointlessly renaming them ancestries) while (political correctly) stating that races do not exist.

    Will this giant, very fragile, house-of-cards theory of race-as-social-construct survive much longer? It is so patently ridiculous! Perhaps this NYTimes article is part of the endgame or wind-down process for this ridiculous race-as-social-construct theory.

  122. @Tono Bungay
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Looks tan to me.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    That photo has clearly been run through a few filters.

  123. This all seems rather semantic at this point. It’s also getting tedious and mind-numbing, but that goes for the HBDers as well as the Gateses of the world. I suppose this discussion makes sense to someone who’s spent many years living in an iSteve echo chamber, but just try to sympathize with the plight of a new person who wandered onto this website for the first time and started reading this thread. I don’t think such a person could possibly relate to exactly what is being claimed by whom, and why.

    It won’t do much good attempting to fortify such a man, as HBDers are wont to do, by pummeling him with a pantheon of bizarre British philosophasters—e.g. Darwin, Galton, Dawkins, Rushton, with cherubs Steve and Derb strumming harps alongside—as if this were anything to build a social order upon. Normal people do not want to convert to the church of genetic materialism as the price of getting their freedom back. Normal people, at least those of them who are fed up with Wokeness, just want to stop all the racial game-playing. They would support upcoming actions by SCOTUS to end Affirmative Action, and that alone would basically put an end to the racial grievance industry. But they aren’t going to support this genetic stuff.

    If you really want to stop black privilege and the de facto reduction of whites to the status of second-class citizens, it might be wise to graze where the grass is.

  124. “We Need a New Language for Talking About Race”

    The hell, we do. We need to ignore or order to shut up people like Gates & Curran, who are ruining a perfectly good language.

  125. “It’s awfully silly to say that sub-Saharan African ancestry and European ancestry are real, but black and white are not more or less the same things.”

    Hat Tip To Yan Shen –> In some sense isn’t everything a social construct? I mean the universe is just brute matter and everything else is a construct of the human mind, in particular the process of abstraction and categorization.

    One more time, Mr. Sailer.

    Race is linked to biology; ethnicity is linked to culture. Race is a biological and social construct. Ethnicity is a social construct. Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices. In a nutshell, race refers to a group of people who possess similar and distinct physical characteristics, while ethnicity refers to a category of people who regard themselves to be different from other groups based on common ancestral, cultural, national, and social experience.

    Furthermore, natural science consists of mental constructs, created with the objective of explaining sensory experience of our world. Human beings affix labels to make sense of our environment. For example, the California spotted owl is an animal, i.e. biological construct. The scientific name of the creature is a human designation—strix occidentalis. That is, binomial nomenclature refers to a formal system, developed by people, to name species. The California owl was not a “California owl” until someone actually and specifically labeled it.

    Men and women had sought, and continue to seek, to explain sensory experience of our world. Race, biology, ethnicity–all are concepts created by human beings as an organizational tool to offer a consistency about the natural world in which they observe. “Canis” refers to a real thing, but human beings designated that term—canis, which means “dog” in Latin, and also refers to their prominent teeth used for killing their prey. Dogs (like cats) did not magically appear as those animals automatically to human beings. People had to describe the characteristics in a manner that made sense to them by developing criteria to differentiate the species in their natural habitats.

    When it comes to breeds are manufactured through selective breeding (artificial selection). A Boston terrier is an explicitly defined animal: the AKC ultimately decides which dog meets the criteria. I am probably stating the obvious here, but geographic isolation, and natural or sexual selection, have resulted in some alleles in human beings being more frequent in some groups compared to human beings, and ancestry determines the distribution of some genes. As far as I know, the major genetic clusters consisted of Europeans/West Asians (whites), sub-Saharan Africans, East Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Native Americans with a discrepancy rate of only 0.14%. It also seems to me that this debate over race as a biological construct–I happen to believe race is both a biological and social construct–originated in the desire to establish the genetic inferiority of some races compared to others.

    “The question is whether a biological taxonomy picks out “real” biological differences between populations.”

    Which is still socially constructed. How are those “real biological differences” developed…out of thin air? No, it was ultimately by human observation, which we know is prone to significant error. Moreover, what even constitutes “real biological differences” anymore when HBd proponents and opponents infuse their own political ideologies into the debate?

    And from what I gather, race was used to describe different ethnic groups, as in the English race, or the German race, as in to provide labels for human differences based on the available evidence. The line of reasoning was rudimentary in nature, as they embedded supposedly true behavioral and psychological traits in their reported observations, which was assumed to be other than changeable. So when Europeans encountered Africans and North/South Americans, naturally they would employ this logic.

    So, regarding this “biological aspect of race”, Mr. Sailer. Who actually labeled it in this manner? Why? Again, did race just “magically appear”? How did these descriptions originate? What is their genesis?

  126. @Robert Dolan
    @Almost Missouri

    "Agree. Gates’s swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on."

    The finest example of this is when that stupid witch Eva Longoria was on the show. (She's made a career out of hating white people....helped Obama when he ran, etc.)

    They revealed Longoria's DNA was at least 70% white and she was visibly triggered......then she tried to play it off and blabbed on and on about her wonderful 1% african DNA.....and she said she was proud to be part black like the idiot race baiting host.

    This was some of the best kabuki theater I have ever seen.

    Replies: @Barnard, @mc23, @R.G. Camara

    Longoria dated a younger-than-her black NBA player for a while when she was on Desperate Housewives , MILF attractive, and A-list. She made a big deal of it, showing up at his games, giving interviews about the relationship, and basically going “look at my Mandingo!” to the world.

    Except two things:

    1. When she was first interviewed about the then-ongoing relationship, she casually dropped a diss on him by stating that she had to “teach” him how to please her in the bed room. He (rightfully) flipped out and she issued a retraction about “oh no in the bedroom he’s the teacher.”

    2. A little while later he ended up cheating on her anyway and she quietly broke up with him.

    So she was a double failure: she’d picked a negro dud-in-the-bedroom and she couldn’t even keep him satisfied.

    Whatever dude later married her after all that is such a loser.

  127. @James N. Kennett
    In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term "our people", referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @mc23, @AceDeuce, @turtle, @Corvinus, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Poirot

    “In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term “our people””

    Mmmm, speaking about our people–whites…

    @Chris Mallory –> “I don’t care about Russia or Ukraine, a pox upon them both. Neither one is my people.”


    “The best thing white people ever did was English common law tradition enabling science and true modern civilization. That’s not only geographically far from Ukraine, it’s totally incompatible with Ukrainian or Russian mores…If the whitest person alive is a footsoldier for neocons, then he’s not white at all.”

    Do you agree or disagree with these sentiments? Why? Could both fine commenters be labeled, dare I say, engaging in “anti-white” rhetoric? Why? Would you ultimately characterize each person as being “your people”? Why?

    Furthermore, what is YOUR definition of “being white”? What metrics are involved? How do you propose convincing others that your version of whiteness is the standard for all other whites to follow?

    Serious questions here. Please respond.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    @Corvinus


    Do you agree or disagree with these sentiments? Why? Could both fine commenters be labeled, dare I say, engaging in “anti-white” rhetoric? Why? Would you ultimately characterize each person as being “your people”? Why?

    Furthermore, what is YOUR definition of “being white”? What metrics are involved? How do you propose convincing others that your version of whiteness is the standard for all other whites to follow?

    Serious questions here. Please respond.
     
    I was talking about the public square, in which all of us would be damned for opinions that we have expressed in comments on this site. In the rarefied world of the SPLC and ADL, we would be damned simply for knowing that unz.com exists.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  128. @AnotherDad


    Except that the Race Does Not Exist belief is largely a fairly recent concoction. As far as I can tell, it suddenly leapt to dogma during Bill Clinton’s 2000 Rose Garden ceremony for the Human Genome Project, mostly due to entrepreneur Craig Venter’s blustering speech in which he claimed: “In the five Celera genomes, there is no way to tell one ethnicity from another.”

    Of course, since then, tens of millions of people have had their ethnic ancestry measured to three significant digits by commercial DNA firms such as Ancestry.com. But that hasn’t much impeded the rise to dominance of Venterism.

     

    "Venterism"?

    Steve, you're come up with some really great tags and turns of phrase--"coalition of the fringes", "World War T", "hate hoax", "affordable family formation" are just ones that pop to mind. But "Venterism" is laughable.

    The whole psuedo-scientific attack on actual Anglo-Saxon science--and simple barnyard common sense--notions of race and genetics (and IQ to boot), is an almost wholly owned Jewish operation and has been going on a very long time. (Deny white accomplishment, denigrate white gentiles, blame white racism for black dysfunction, break national solidarity, deny national identity, balkanize the joint and of course provide an excuse for elites and their apparatchiks to leverage state power against white gentiles and push minoritarianism.)

    Venter was just echoing the ideology already in place. Venter could have spent his life surfing and all this stuff would be exactly the same. If you want a nametag for the psuedo-scientific genetic denialism seems like Lewontin is a good pick. (Critics have even slapped his name on his fallacy.) Call it "Lewontinism." Or i suppose the lower wattage Gould--the bigger popularizer--could be your guy.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Corvinus

    “The whole psuedo-scientific attack on actual Anglo-Saxon science–and simple barnyard common sense–notions of race and genetics (and IQ to boot), is an almost wholly owned Jewish operation and has been going on a very long time.”

    Oh, boy, here we go again with this nonsense.

    In biological taxonomy, race is an informal rank in the taxonomic hierarchy for which various definitions exist. We have seen that races may be genetically distinct populations of individuals within the same species, or they may be defined in geographical or physiological categories. Forensic anthropologists (and geneticists) are employing the term “genetic ancestry”. Genomes from reference populations around the globe have been collected, with the most diversity found in African populations. “There is much more diversity between them than the combined African genome would have between the European genome,” says Nicolas Robine, director of computational biology at the New York Genome Center (NYGC), a nonprofit academic research institution that serves as a collaborative hub for genomic research. “The proportion that is variable is very small, compared to that which is common to everybody.”

    https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/forensic.2021.0004

    http://eknygos.lsmuni.lt/springer/657/281-316.pdf

    Indeed, race is partially based on physical similarities within groups that are patently obvious to the naked eye, but it was assigned by us–human beings–to have an inherent physical or biological meaning. Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time.

    –In the 1700’s, Carl Linnaeus four “varieties” of humans (Europaeus albus, Americanus rubescens, Asiaticus fuscus, and Africanus niger), even going so far as to specify behavioral characteristics–Americanus as “unyielding, cheerful, free”; Europaeus as “light, wise, inventor”; Asiaticus as “stern, haughty, greedy”; and Africanus as “sly, sluggish, neglectful”. Clearly, Linnaeus was basing these characteristics on social conventions.

    –In the early 1800’s, Samuel Morton used his collection of human skulls to link the size and shape of them to correlate each with intelligence, and his imagined hierarchy was employed by white Northerners and Southerns to justify slavey.

    –Then there is Louis Agassiz who touted that different races of humanity were of different origins.

    –My personal favorite, however, is Madison Grant.

    Source –> https://www.dartmouth.edu/~hist32/History/White.htm

    “Between 1880 and WWI, the United States experienced large waves of European immigration. These “new immigrants” however did not come from northern Europe and represented a frightening diversity to many. The difference perceived in these immigrants was frequently described as a racial difference in which Europeans were represented as, not one, but many races identified by region (Alpine, Mediterranean, Slavic and Nordic) or by alleged head shape (roundheads, slopeheads). Madison Grant, a biologist and curator for the American Museum of Natural History in New York explained in his book “The Passing of the Great Race that White Americans”, the great race, were losing out to hordes of inferior European immigrants. Grant’s book was so popular it experienced 7 reprints before WWII. According to Grant, “These new immigrants were no longer exclusively members of the Nordic race as were the earlier ones…The transportation lines advertised America as a land flowing with milk and honey and the European governments took the opportunity to unload upon careless, wealthy and hospitable America the sweepings of their jails and asylums…Our jails, insane asylums and almshouses are filled with this human flotsam and the whole tone of american life, social, moral and political has been lowered and vulgarized by them.”

    So, which taxonomy ought to be the “standard”? Are all somehow on equal intellectual and biological footing, or is one more precise compared to the rest?

    Stated another way, from a psychological standpoint, we have an easier time identifying and sympathizing with people who look like us or who belong to the same in-group as us, even though that grouping ultimately was constructed arbitrarily. Again, in the 1800 and 1900’s race group divisions were based on skin color and physical appearance according to scientists, and then divided into white, black, yellow, and red. Then scientists stated there were more gradient subtypes based on other characteristics.

    So, where is this line drawn between “the races”? Does it not lead to a potential fractioning all the way down to the individual? Think about it. Attempts to divide humanity into race has used as few as three, then up to more than thirty. Humans have been migrating back and forth across the continents for over 200,000 years. Genetic traits have been mixed and remixed over and over. To me, in the end, how many races of humans exist depends on one’s meaning of the word…race.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Corvinus

    Just more of your usual moral equivocating. Sheds no light on the issue; just obfuscates.


    “There is much more diversity between [the African genomes] than the combined African genome would have between the European genome,”
     
    This is called a fallacy for a reason. There is much more price difference within competing stores than between competing stores, but the few cents difference between the stores is what decides success or failure. This feature of overlapping bell curves has been explained here many times, but you are unwilling or unable to grasp the concept.

    You then, as usual, launch into the continuum fallacy, another concept you are unwilling and unable to grasp.

    Gee, there has been much argument and disagreement about classifying the difference between phtalo blue and cobalt blue. In the end, it's just an arbitrary distinction within the wavelengths 450-500 nm, so color must not exist.

    You know, the Norwegians used to complain about Swedish immigration, but it all worked out okay. The complaints have changed over time; I can't tell any difference today; therefore, differences don't exist. Congolese immigration into Norway is in this same context; ergo, it is good and proper and we should not complain about it.
  129. @eded
    @AnotherDad

    What did Biden mean by "clean" in his Obama comments? Did he mean uncorrupt compared to other black politicians? Was he actually referring to hygiene? What was he getting at? I've never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Charon, @Rob, @Charlotte, @AceDeuce

    That quote is proof [as though any more were needed] that as long as it’s “our guy” in office, he’s permitted to say and do absolutely anything.

    Can you imagine an even slightly “badwhite” politician saying that about Obama? They’d come after his family once they were through ruining him.

  130. @Blinky Bill
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Uzbek.


    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYURtcCXxS9Jf__zWLTJkWCurYyMdHv4Mxwg&usqp.jpg

    Race is not based on looks but community acceptance. If whites embrace you, you're white!

    Replies: @Otto The Lotto

    Robert J Matthews and David Lane always told me, “if you think you’re white and we think you are white, then you are white”.

  131. @James N. Kennett
    In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term "our people", referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @mc23, @AceDeuce, @turtle, @Corvinus, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Poirot

    In a Congressional hearing, Obama’s wingman, AG Eric Holder, referred to the “new black panthers” who stood outside of polling stations in 2008 menacing voters with clubs as “my people.” And, to paraphrase Obama’s close friend and spiritual leader, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, no one batted an eye.

  132. Anon[920] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Has anyone noticed that Biden is running away to Delaware this weekend, when the trucker convoy is due to arrive in DC, and while the war in Ukraine is still going strong?

    Biden’s a master at running away from a difficult situation and at avoiding responsibility.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/joe-biden-ignores-questions-reporters-prepares-leave-delaware-35th-time-presidency-video/

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Anon

    He’s home more weekends than not. I get the FAA Temporary Flight Restriction notices when he’s heading there. That must be where they change the embalming fluid.

  133. We says:
    @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    OK, so Obama gets a gig as a law professor at Case Western and eventually they make him the dean. That would work. I don't think there are too many head of Harvard Law Review guys selling insurance, even adjusting for AA.

    Obama was not much like his grandpa. If anything, he took more after his grandma who became a VP at a bank. I could also see Obama as a banker, but on a higher level than his grandma, who lacked a college education. He would be a business development type guy who took clients out golfing a lot and would leave the number crunching to his S. Asian underlings.

    Replies: @We, @Art Deco

    What a stupid post. You dont really believe that someone who won two national elections would just be a law professor at Case Western if he were black. The idea that some elite cabal selected Obama and could get him elected President of the United States twice is absurd. The man won over 50 million votes in 50 different states. He won the votes of all kinds of people – black, white, hispanic, asian, old young, Northern and Southern.

    Kamala Harris is a former Senator and California AG who punches a lot of the same buttons as Obama. She will never be President – she just doesnt have the “it” factor. Voters of all stripes don’t like her.

    Obama, as are all of the people who have ever been elected president, is a unicorn.Live with it.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @We

    Kamala Harris is a former Senator and California AG who punches a lot of the same buttons as Obama. She will never be President – she just doesnt have the “it” factor. Voters of all stripes don’t like her.

    She may not ever be elected president, but she very easily could become president.

  134. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    I think Obama was destined for greater things.

    Obama's notable for not being interested in much of anything aside from golf, college basketball, and hanging with celebrities. I assume some of his interests are a function of the life he's led since 1983. I don't think BigLaw is plausible because he was just never that driven. The Foreign Service in Obama's era wrote their examination to collar people with a broad liberal education - think Wm. F. Buckley as an intense specimen. I wouldn't entirely rule that out for Obama, but I would not rule it in.

    Insurance popped into my head because that was his grandfather's last attempt at earning a living. Obama I think is more of a generic NGO administrator type. Sheila Jager is on the Oberlin faculty and colleges like that often grease the skids for faculty spouses, and, of course, there are other schools in commuting distance.

    Before she sank into the mire, Gloria Steinem produced some engaging magazine journalism. In that capacity, she's notable as one of the few people ever to induce Pat Nixon to say anything interesting in front of someone who wasn't a family member, and had a satisfactory hypothesis about what made the Nixons tick as a couple. Not sure anyone's really sussed out the Obamas similarly.

    Replies: @Jack D, @PaceLaw

    “I don’t think BigLaw is plausible because he was just never that driven.”

    All in all, I agree with your take. Obama doesn’t really strike me as the type who would ever want to bill 60+ hours a week and have to work on weekends, thus cutting into his time to watch sports on TV.

    However, I could definitely see him excelling in the role of a rainmaker for a big firm. I don’t like Obama and never voted for him, but I will acknowledge that he appears to have a natural charisma and is a gifted speaker. He would’ve been a natural at schmoozing and charming the captains of industry around the world.

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
  135. And the Ukraine issue is over anyway. Biden has rescued the world from nuclear armagedden.
    He’s sending Heels Up:

    https://foundingquestions.wordpress.com/

    Yeah, I know, more Ukraine shit, but oh please oh please oh please let this be true (via Ace of Normies):

    The White House is actively discussing sending Vice President Harris to Warsaw, Poland, and Bucharest, Romania, in the coming days to show solidarity with Ukraine as it faces an escalating Russian invasion, sources familiar with the conversations tell The Hill.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yes, yes, YESSSSS!!!!! That has the real potential to be the funniest thing that has ever happened in the history of the human race. Monty Python once did a skit where a leading team of comedians came up with a joke so funny, they used to to end war — all the Allied soldiers had to cover their ears when the propaganda guys read it, because the enemy literally died laughing.

    Kamala in Warsaw might top that.

    And if sucking a dick will end the war in the Ukraine, well then Kamala will suck that dick. Heck, she might just do it on the off chance. Or just to stay in practice. Or, you know, whatever. I mean, what else has she got going on?

    Tough, smart diplomacy.

  136. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    To modify Elvis Costello: There are many things you can cover up with lipstick and powder.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Richard of Melbourne


    To modify Elvis Costello: There are many things you can cover up with lipstick and powder.
     
    EC is a lamer who wrote that great tune. Then Dave Edmunds come along does it 10x better. Dave Edmunds , what a dude back in the day! There are many versions on you tube but this is my favorite.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MVeZSK6OyY
  137. @Hypnotoad666
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Her's my stab at summing up what I think Steve's "ancestry group" theory of race means.

    Visually identifiable differences are what people use to define "race" in everyday affairs. These visual identifiers absolutely do correlate with Continent-level ancestry groups as they existed ten thousand years ago at least. And these ancestry groups also have different distributions of behavioral and intellectual traits (although these are not supposed to be acknowledged.)

    But the ancestry lineages themselves are the true scientific definitions of "race." The visual differences are just evidence of the ancestry. And the underlying differences in physiology and behavior are just side effects of the ancestry.

    The generalizations that people experience and expect regarding people who "look" like they have a certain ancestry could be called the "socially constructed" part of "race." But that still wouldn't mean race (ancestry) is "just" the social construct. Or that the social constructs surrounding race aren't based in part on real differences.

    Mixed race/ancestry people, or edge cases who don't look like their ancestry are just distractions.

    Replies: @FBIstats, @Bardon Kaldian

    Yes and no. Having in mind that the concept of race is essentially that of “breed”, it has been used in varying meanings in the past 500 years (European colonization) & it is not necessary to insist on the term “race”. We can use species or sub-species & nothing will change.

    Also, we should take into account that until the 20th C no one knew anything about genetics, and especially population genetics, so we should avoid both retro-jecting our notions on the 17th C or the 19th C with their Alpine, Mediterranean, Nordic… “races”, which is also obsolete.

    Psychologically & culturally, it is evident that the dominant narrative among Europeans, in the past 4 or so centuries have been that of a “breed” – hence the contempt of French aristocrats for most of the French people. French aristocracy has, until the 1789 revolution, tried to prove that their ruling position is somehow historically justified because they are descendants of the conquering “race” or breed, so they should have all the privileges because they had been history’s winners. Evidently, this has virtually nothing to do with looks, because French dukes, counts … didn’t look any different from French merchants or taylors.

    So, there are a few dimensions to “race”: breed or ancestry; looks; social-historical interpretation of ancestry, somehow connected with religion or dominant culture (Spanish “purity of blood”, limpieza de sangre)- and now we have popular genetic genealogy.

    My take is that from the broad democratization of Western societies, somewhere from the mid 19th C to WW1, “race” has become mostly looks plus culture (language, religion, history). Nazis were not typical in their views on race; they were an extremist fringe rooted in the 19th C obsolete Lombroso-Gobineau type of racial thinking (Celtic race; Saxon race; ..) & post-WW2 aversion to racism is the direct consequence of their totalitarian genocidal excesses.

    But, for the democratic mainstream among Europeans, race has, since the beginning of the 20th C, been mostly about looks, followed by language-culture-religion. Only very race sensitive/crazy people are obsessing about skulls or shape of the nose. Our perception of “out group” is the following: first looks; then language; and then culture, religion, history.

    We don’t have to go into some deep investigation to see what we already know: Vietnamese brought up in American families are not whites/Europeans, they are Asians judging just from looks; with blacks, it’s even more.

    One can adopt an African baby & raise it in Sweden & she will remain black, not typically Swedish. In case they adopt a child from Portugal, she is Swedish 100%. No one will care if she has a more olive skin. Or a baby from Caucasian Afghanistan or Tajikistan. Mentally sane people will treat them mostly as slightly exotic Swedes, while they wouldn’t treat adopted Africans or east Asians as “Swedes”.

    So, in the modern world – it’s the looks that come first & cannot be altered. That’s why crazies like Rachel Dolezal go for looks.

    And, as far as population genetics goes- liberals or leftists are intelligent enough, sometimes, to dismiss it as anything relevant and continue to insist that race (even popular ancestry) is something that doesn’t exist or is superficially interpreted, as Gates seems to try to say. Their way of thinking is: witch hunts were real, although witches have never existed.

    A smarter defense of race denialism can be seen here (it’s about ancient and modern Greeks, but can be extrapolated): https://qr.ae/pGdW5w

  138. @Barnard
    @Robert Dolan

    In the few episodes I have watched these celebrities are always thrilled to find any non European DNA. Paul Ryan was giddy when Gates told him he was 3% Jewish. Marco Rubio was excited when Gates told him he was something like 5% Native American via someone from the Yucatan.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hypnotoad666

    Rubio’s siblings aren’t quite as white-looking as him.

  139. I’m not a fan of home improvement shows. The climax always involves a couple that feigns complete surprise that their house turned out the way it did. (I liked it better before.)

  140. @eded
    @AnotherDad

    What did Biden mean by "clean" in his Obama comments? Did he mean uncorrupt compared to other black politicians? Was he actually referring to hygiene? What was he getting at? I've never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Charon, @Rob, @Charlotte, @AceDeuce

    Yeah, I took “clean” to mean corruption and scandal-free. The media was unwilling to admit that every other black pol should just be assumed to be taking bribes, so they pretended that Biden thought black pols have not heard of soap. Biden’s a Democrat, so he couldn’t say that most black pols are corrupt. If Biden had not said that, it’s unlikely, though not impossible, Obama would have tapped him for VP.

    I wonder if Harris was trying to pull a Biden on Biden when she “called him out” on his opposition to forced busing back in the sixties. It was a gotcha, I guess, but no one supports busing these days. Its former supporters have decided they were right, but “the country was not ready.” So, the day after the debate, Harris clarified that she does not support busing, either. “Senator, you showed courage, foresight, restraint, and leadership! That’s wrong!”

    It shows that the Democrats are in a tough spot. None of their seven dwarves had any appeal outside their niche, gay, female, black…with other Democrats, to say nothing of swingers, er, swing voters. It does give me some hope that Democrats are learning Trump’s lesson. The party that tilts the country back toward actually producing things will have a huge advantage. If Donald Trump could win on bringing back jobs and expelling aliens, then a normal-ish person could get a 2/3 majority. Note, normal person, not politician. No politician could survive the donors putting all their money and whispers against his opponent. Regardless, at least Biden seems to realize that we need to reshore industries. Otherwise, when China takes Taiwan, they don’t have to worry about sanctions. They can sanction the West. We need silicon chips more than China needs wastepaper and scrap metal.

    • Replies: @res
    @Rob


    I wonder if Harris was trying to pull a Biden on Biden when she “called him out” on his opposition to forced busing back in the sixties. It was a gotcha, I guess, but no one supports busing these days. Its former supporters have decided they were right, but “the country was not ready.” So, the day after the debate, Harris clarified that she does not support busing, either. “Senator, you showed courage, foresight, restraint, and leadership! That’s wrong!”
     
    Given the way things turned out (Harris as VP), I wonder if there is any chance that was a bit of kabuki theater serving as a dog whistle that Biden was not all in on the insanity. Doubtful, but...
  141. We should never forget that whiteness, like Blackness, is just another social fiction

    Yes, but as the spelling indicates, some fictions are more fictional than others.

  142. @AndrewR
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What is a "convert Iranian?"

    I'm also skeptical that she's Muslim. Religious women in Iran tend to wear the chador. Iranian law compels her to cover the rear of her hair with a hijab.

    Anyway, race is a social construct, to a certain extent. By any meaningful definition, this woman is white, albeit with noticeably Persian facial features. In Iran everyone would consider her white. She surely considers herself white. But if she came to an Anglo country she would be strongly discouraged in many ways from identifying as white. At most, she would be described with the revolting term "white-passing," by the same people who tell us race doesn't exist.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Chrisnonymous

    But if she came to an Anglo country she would be strongly discouraged in many ways from identifying as white. At most, she would be described with the revolting term “white-passing,” by the same people who tell us race doesn’t exist.

    You’re right re. current politics.

    But if you go 20-40 years back in time & she drops the Islamic culture (the same way Carlos Menem in Argentine has adopted Christianity)- she would be considered white by any reasonable white American. In the 1990s she would be completely white for most regular Americans (minus Islam etc.).

  143. @quewin
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Can we just go back to the three “obsolete racial categories” of Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid that I remember (reading about) from my youth?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Agreed.

  144. @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Almost nobody in America is aware that recent DNA studies have shown that people who self-identify as white tend to have only tiny amounts of black ancestry on average. When you think about it, that’s perfectly understandable, but who thinks about it?
     
    Is this even true (are there that many in absolute terms)? IIRC, one of the popular DNA test sites used to pick on whites in the American South by including a figure of "less than or equal to 1% Sub-Saharan ancestry" to their results which is technically true for everyone in the world with 0% Sub-Saharan ancestry. You could see other shenanigans going on with fractional DNA "noise."

    My guess is that in most cases these small numbers of shared DNA represent a few people who became black over time via exogamy ("going native") rather than whites having a lineal black ancestor in the U.S.

    Otherwise I would think these fractions originate from a few vestigial Latin cultures in the U.S., as in Louisiana, where there is a true creole culture in which there are very light skinned, finer featured blacks who over time can "pass" as white - or in the case of women, light skinned and attractive enough for a white man to take the social risk (which is much lower in New Orleans than Boston). Former CNN anchor Suzanne Malveaux comes to mind - light skin, fine features, light eyes, straight hair and looks vaguely tan in the summer.

    I think DNA is very, very good at mapping consanguinity between living people - i.e., it can tell you with near perfect accuracy who your sixth cousin on your mother's side is if the testing sites have enough close DNA material samples to both of you.

    But the percentages of ancestry are really just telling you that you share DNA with some percentage of people who themselves at some point self-reported as a certain ethnicity. That original self-reporting is just as liable to family shames and family lore as anyone's.

    In other words, my TV show Finding Your Roots has nothing about race, it’s just about ancestry. Race and ancestry are fundamentally opposed because reasons.
     
    This is going to be a challenge in the coming decades, assuming that Affirmative Action is not outlawed in all spheres outright. American blacks are going to need to start defining what constitutes "black" for socio-political purposes. The fact that a DNA test can put a definite number on one's "Sub-Saharan" ancestry takes away a lot of wiggle room.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    But the percentages of ancestry are really just telling you that you share DNA with some percentage of people who themselves at some point self-reported as a certain ethnicity.

    This is a very critical point. I’m glad you brought it up because, due to my reputation around here, nobody would pay attention to it if I had said it, but it remains true.

    Since the baseline is itself uncertain, there is no way of knowing what exactly these genetic ancestry tests are actually saying.

    I took a 23andMe test about 6 years ago, and I too got the anomalous 1% African origin ratio. They said that I had one African ancestor sometime in the 1700s. That would have been rather hard to pull off, considering that I had no ancestors in North America in the 1700s. At that time all my ancestors were in what was then the Kingdom of Bohemia, and there weren’t too many blacks wandering around.

  145. Anonymous[554] • Disclaimer says:
    @eded
    How much does the existence of a few unusually diverse cities such as New York, London, Toronto and others in the West lead to a lack of appreciation of how isolated most racial groups are in most of the world?

    The impression that I get is that many "educated people" who haven't travelled much outside the West get the impression that since you can find people from all over the world in cities such as New York that those cities are accurate reflections of the world as opposed highly unusual places with a highly unusual degree diversity and mixing. This leads to a lack of understanding that the bulk of world's population is isolated and unmixed. For instance the highly mixed African descended population of all of the Americas is less than 200 million people yet the highly unmixed population in Sub-Saharan Africa is something close to a billion. Yet the former is more salient in the minds of Westerners than the far more numerous latter group leading people to think that a high degree of mixing is the norm around the world.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    How much does the existence of a few unusually diverse cities such as New York, London, Toronto and others in the West lead to a lack of appreciation of how isolated most racial groups are in most of the world?

    The inhabitants are often totally baffled when they discover that the rest of the country/world is not like their neighbourhood.

    Case in point, a year or two ago, in The Guardian, there was an article by a Jewish lady from London complaining that someone or other had said something that she found absurd/offensive and demanded to know why the miscreant hadn’t ‘discussed it with a Jewish friend’ veggie saying it. It was pointed out in the comments that the Jewish population of Britain is < 1%, and most of those are concentrated in a few urban areas, so no, most people won't have a Jewish friend or, indeed, knowingly meet any during their lives.

    It is the same lack of perspective that makes the BBC fill the airwaves with more ethnic minority folks than most Britons will meet in a year.

  146. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    I'm not sure it's done 100% of the time, but in every recent episode I've seen, they start out with and spend most of the episode on conventional genealogy based on historical records and at the very end they show the guest his DNA results to "fill in the gaps". Maybe there are some guests who don't want their DNA taken (I haven't seen any) but the template for each regular episode calls for DNA results at the end.

    The most hilarious one I recall was Frank Gehry, the architect (nee Goldberg). At the end, Gates asks him how Jewish he thinks he is. He answers "40%?", chuckling and Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, "I didn't think I'd be all that Jewish, because emotionally I'm not anymore, I'm sort of international " as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites (and this comes after Gates has just show him which concentration camps his close relatives had died in). And Dr. Gates doesn't call him on his insanity - he confirms it and nods and says, "You're a citizen of the world."

    You can find the show on the Hoopla platform which (may be) available thru your local public library. It's Season 3, Episode 5 and the DNA reveal is about 50 minutes in. I searched for this because I wanted to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks but Gehry's words above are transcribed verbatim from the video.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Barnard, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Bardon Kaldian

    … Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, “I didn’t think I’d be all that Jewish, because emotionally I’m not anymore, I’m sort of international ” as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites …

    Gehry’s response sounds like Jack D from not long ago:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/in-todays-edition-of-asian-american-women-writers-on-the-make-frontlashing-whites-over-coronavirus/#comment-3842338 (#246, etc.)

    Jack D says:

    Marx – NOT Jewish. His father converted from Judaism to join the state Evangelical Church of Prussia before he was born.

    Adorno – NOT Jewish as you say – Catholic mother, father converted to Protestantism.

    Derrida – (Sephardic) Jewish.

    Marx and Adorno might have had (partial in case of Adorno) Jewish ancestors but they were not Jewish. They never set foot in a synagogue in their life. Someone who is baptized at birth and attends church is not Jewish regardless of what his ancestors might have been. Children know only the world they are born in. Marx and Adorno were Jewish only in the Nazi sense of racial guilt.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke

    Jenner Ickham Errican says:

    Really. That person’s DNA changes upon baptism?

    Your example is akin to saying that a child who is given a male identity from birth and is dressed like a boy is not a girl even if that child was born having a vagina and XX chromosomes.

    • Replies: , …

    Jack, you didn’t agree with me then, but it looks like you now concur with my reasonable observation.

    Gotta admit, I get a nice feeling when my pro bono counsel does some good. 🙂

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Note: Jack’s money quote (I responded to above) was this:


    Someone who is baptized at birth and attends church is not Jewish regardless of what his ancestors might have been.
     

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @Jack D
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Gehry was being specifically asked about about his DNA, not whether he was a practicing Jew. These are two completely different things.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

  147. @Calvin Hobbes
    @Roger

    Thanks. I found that hard to watch. 6 minutes and 52 seconds of 100% lying.

    Replies: @Roger

    Hard to watch, but this is the world we live in.

  148. @eded
    @AnotherDad

    What did Biden mean by "clean" in his Obama comments? Did he mean uncorrupt compared to other black politicians? Was he actually referring to hygiene? What was he getting at? I've never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Charon, @Rob, @Charlotte, @AceDeuce

    I’m not 100% sure myself, but I don’t think he meant literal cleanliness. Probably it was more that Obama often acts like an upper middle class white guy with an academic bent rather than a typical “black” politician. In America, “black politician” tends to be synonymous with “black activist,” and black activists (successful ones, anyway) tend to make a big deal out of being culturally black. Black culture tends to be perceived as low class, at least by older white voters-I’m not sure that’s still true with younger whites.

    Class and race and culture all figure into how Americans perceive each other, but they don’t map onto each other exactly. With help from the media, 2008 Obama managed to emphasize his class and culture to whites while playing up his race to black voters. It worked really well because good whites don’t want to have to think about race, while blacks put a lot of emphasis on it.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Charlotte

    Many GoodWhites(TM) were naive enough to believe that blacks would settle down once one of "their people" reached the White House.

    Many people say that the media finally lost all credibility in 2016, but for me that had already happened by 2008. They really did go all-out to create a huge cult of personality around Obama. This campaign increased in intensity after the election, peaking during the days leading up to his inauguration. By the time he took the oath, he had already been proclaimed as the greatest hero in the history of the republic.

    The tone of the news coverage was utterly reverential. There was a great deal of steaming BS about the coming age of post-racial harmony. When Obama nominated Hillary as secretary of state, there were breathless articles about his assembling a "Lincoln-esque team of rivals" to tackle the great problems of the nation.

    There was even a sensation when was photographed shirtless on a beach in Hawaii. Newspapers ran front-page headlines screaming "OMG HE'S SO HAWT!" Even the New York Post got caught up in the frenzy:

    https://i.ibb.co/Sn9XhhR/rawImage.jpg

    So much crap, so little time.

  149. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    … Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, “I didn’t think I’d be all that Jewish, because emotionally I’m not anymore, I’m sort of international ” as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites …
     
    Gehry’s response sounds like Jack D from not long ago:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/in-todays-edition-of-asian-american-women-writers-on-the-make-frontlashing-whites-over-coronavirus/#comment-3842338 (#246, etc.)


    Jack D says:

    Marx – NOT Jewish. His father converted from Judaism to join the state Evangelical Church of Prussia before he was born.

    Adorno – NOT Jewish as you say – Catholic mother, father converted to Protestantism.

    Derrida – (Sephardic) Jewish.

    Marx and Adorno might have had (partial in case of Adorno) Jewish ancestors but they were not Jewish. They never set foot in a synagogue in their life. Someone who is baptized at birth and attends church is not Jewish regardless of what his ancestors might have been. Children know only the world they are born in. Marx and Adorno were Jewish only in the Nazi sense of racial guilt.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
     


    Jenner Ickham Errican says:

    Really. That person’s DNA changes upon baptism?

    Your example is akin to saying that a child who is given a male identity from birth and is dressed like a boy is not a girl even if that child was born having a vagina and XX chromosomes.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D …
     

    Jack, you didn’t agree with me then, but it looks like you now concur with my reasonable observation.

    Gotta admit, I get a nice feeling when my pro bono counsel does some good. :)

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Jack D

    Note: Jack’s money quote (I responded to above) was this:

    Someone who is baptized at birth and attends church is not Jewish regardless of what his ancestors might have been.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Just like Billy Joel. Raised Catholic and totally not jewish:

    https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/mm/image?url=https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2015/05/08/050515-bday-billy-joel.jpg

    Still sang about fucking 13 year old shiksa virgins though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Reg Cæsar

  150. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    … Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, “I didn’t think I’d be all that Jewish, because emotionally I’m not anymore, I’m sort of international ” as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites …
     
    Gehry’s response sounds like Jack D from not long ago:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/in-todays-edition-of-asian-american-women-writers-on-the-make-frontlashing-whites-over-coronavirus/#comment-3842338 (#246, etc.)


    Jack D says:

    Marx – NOT Jewish. His father converted from Judaism to join the state Evangelical Church of Prussia before he was born.

    Adorno – NOT Jewish as you say – Catholic mother, father converted to Protestantism.

    Derrida – (Sephardic) Jewish.

    Marx and Adorno might have had (partial in case of Adorno) Jewish ancestors but they were not Jewish. They never set foot in a synagogue in their life. Someone who is baptized at birth and attends church is not Jewish regardless of what his ancestors might have been. Children know only the world they are born in. Marx and Adorno were Jewish only in the Nazi sense of racial guilt.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
     


    Jenner Ickham Errican says:

    Really. That person’s DNA changes upon baptism?

    Your example is akin to saying that a child who is given a male identity from birth and is dressed like a boy is not a girl even if that child was born having a vagina and XX chromosomes.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D …
     

    Jack, you didn’t agree with me then, but it looks like you now concur with my reasonable observation.

    Gotta admit, I get a nice feeling when my pro bono counsel does some good. :)

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Jack D

    Gehry was being specifically asked about about his DNA, not whether he was a practicing Jew. These are two completely different things.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    Gehry was being specifically asked about about his DNA, not whether he was a practicing Jew.
     
    What's a practicing Jew? Are there “practicing” Whites and “practicing” Blacks? Your red herring aside (gah, filter fish!), are we not now in agreement?

    You ridiculed Gehry for him thinking his sentiments, and his self-identification beyond biology, has any bearing on whether he is an actual Jew or not. You approved of Gehry being identified as “98% Ashkenazi”—presumably regardless of whether or not he also identifies as a Lubavitcher or Buddhist or atheist or brony or “sort of international” or whatever.

    But Gehry made the same argument you previously made when you denied Marx’s Jewishness in 2020—but you’ve now taken the opposite position on the issue, essentially now mocking, in Gehry’s case, your own earlier bizarre ‘transubstantiation’ take.

    So who’s right? Frank Gehry and 2020 Jack D, or JIE and 2022 Jack D?

    Replies: @lavoisier

  151. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Note: Jack’s money quote (I responded to above) was this:


    Someone who is baptized at birth and attends church is not Jewish regardless of what his ancestors might have been.
     

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    Just like Billy Joel. Raised Catholic and totally not jewish:

    Still sang about fucking 13 year old shiksa virgins though.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Mike Tre


    The Worst Pop Singer Ever

    Why, exactly, is Billy Joel so bad?
     
    https://slate.com/human-interest/2009/01/the-awfulness-of-billy-joel-explained.html
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Mike Tre


    Still sang about 🔌ing 13 year old shiksa virgins though.
     
    That was taken as feminist satire at the time. By the simp who also did "She's Always a Woman", to a tune perfect for perfume or feminine hygiene commercials. The character is obviously a fool.
  152. Alright, I’ll just c-p a part of what a smart race-denialist liberal woman wrote:
    https://qr.ae/pGdW5w

    How DNA really works

    Now, there are some DNA sequences known as “genetic markers” that usually tend to be associated with people whose ancestors came from certain general regions of the world, but these markers are not very exact. A DNA test can tell you based on certain genetic markers that an individual probably has some kind of ancestors who lived at some point in the general region of southeastern Europe, but it can’t tell you whether any of those ancestors were classical Greeks.

    Furthermore, these genetic markers are not even always 100% reliable, since the same mutation can have occurred in multiple places at different times. For instance, the MTHFR C677T mutation is a genetic marker that is common in people of Mexican ancestry, but also in people Chilean, Chinese, and Italian ancestries. It’s also less commonly found in other populations of people from all over the world, including western Europe, Britain, Ireland, and Colombia.

    If a geneticist looks at someone’s DNA and finds they have the MTHFR C677T mutation, they have no way of knowing whether the person carrying that gene inherited it from a person of Italian ancestry, a person of Chinese ancestry, a person of Mexican ancestry, or some other person from some other part of the world who just happened to have the mutation. This is the case with many genetic markers. In many cases, the marker itself is present in people from all different populations from all over the world, but it happens to be particularly common in people from a certain part of the world.

    Unfortunately, the idea that DNA testing can tell you your exact ancestry is an idea that has been irresponsibly promoted by companies like 23andMe and Ancestry.com. Advertisements produced by these companies often show people with pie charts showing that a certain percent of their DNA comes “from” some region or another. If you actually take one of these DNA tests, they will give you your own pie chart. This simplistic way of presenting the data is deeply misleading and serves to reinvigorate a lot of old, debunked racialist ideas.

    The reality is that DNA tests can tell you some very basic information about the general part of the world that some of your ancestors probably come from, but, when it comes down to exact percentages, they are highly unreliable. When a company tells you that you are a certain percent “from” a certain region, what they really mean is that that percentage of the genetic markers they identified within your larger genome are often associated with members of a reference group composed of people with known ancestry in that part of the world.

    These tests can be helpful if you really don’t know which part of the world your ancestors come from, but they really can’t tell you anything specific with a high degree of accuracy. For more information here is a fairly recent article: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/1/28/18194560/ancestry-dna-23-me-myheritage-science-explainer
    from Vox talking about the limitations of DNA ancestry tests as well as some of the ways DNA companies can mislead people through their overly simplistic presentations of data.

    The problem as it applies to the question at hand

    Now, DNA ancestry tests are already not especially reliable when it comes to determining the exact ancestry of living people, but they get even more unreliable when it comes to the relationship between entire populations of living people and entire populations of people who have been dead for centuries.

    Most DNA ancestry tests like the ones offered by companies like 23andMe and Ancestry.com rely on large reference populations of living people with reliably documented ancestries. This means they are working with what is essentially the most reliable and detailed data available. We don’t have anything even remotely approaching that level of reliability or detail when it comes to the genetic composition of the population of ancient Greece.

    • LOL: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    If a geneticist looks at someone’s DNA and finds they have the MTHFR C677T mutation, they have no way of knowing whether the person carrying that gene inherited it from a person of Italian ancestry, a person of Chinese ancestry, a person of Mexican ancestry, or some other person from some other part of the world who just happened to have the mutation. This is the case with many genetic markers. In many cases, the marker itself is present in people from all different populations from all over the world, but it happens to be particularly common in people from a certain part of the world.
     
    This is true as far as it goes, but it is incomplete in a way that is highly (I assume intentionally) misleading. Sure, from the MTHFR C677T mutation or any other mutation ALONE, you can't tell whether someone is Italian or Chinese. But that's not what ancestry.com and the other DNA analysis companies do. They test for MULTIPLE markers (I'm not sure of the exact #). One or two mutations might not prove anything but if you have 20 or 50 mutations that are common in people of your ancestry, that indicates that you are a member of that group with an extremely high degree of accuracy. Is there maybe 1 person out of the billion in China who has the same 20 common mutations as an Italian and whom ancestry would peg wrong? Maybe, but 99.9% (with increasing accuracy over time) will be identified correctly.

    This is the usual leftist motte and bailey trick where you pretend that some rare edge case negates the entire general rule.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @res

  153. @SafeNow
    Obama had that crazy bowling score of 37 for 7 frames. (And then he ridiculed bowling by likening it to The Special Olympics, thus callously denigrating The Special Olympics.) Maybe bowling works better than DNA testing. Maybe there was something about evolutionary conditions in Africa that gave you genes that didn’t work well for bowling.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    SafeNow, barack was buff and michelle was beautiful. Say it over and over and over.

    • LOL: SafeNow
  154. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    I'm not sure it's done 100% of the time, but in every recent episode I've seen, they start out with and spend most of the episode on conventional genealogy based on historical records and at the very end they show the guest his DNA results to "fill in the gaps". Maybe there are some guests who don't want their DNA taken (I haven't seen any) but the template for each regular episode calls for DNA results at the end.

    The most hilarious one I recall was Frank Gehry, the architect (nee Goldberg). At the end, Gates asks him how Jewish he thinks he is. He answers "40%?", chuckling and Gates tells him that he is 98% Ashkenazi. And Gehry protests, "I didn't think I'd be all that Jewish, because emotionally I'm not anymore, I'm sort of international " as if his emotions could influence his DNA. It really illustrated the insanity of the globohomo elites (and this comes after Gates has just show him which concentration camps his close relatives had died in). And Dr. Gates doesn't call him on his insanity - he confirms it and nods and says, "You're a citizen of the world."

    You can find the show on the Hoopla platform which (may be) available thru your local public library. It's Season 3, Episode 5 and the DNA reveal is about 50 minutes in. I searched for this because I wanted to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks but Gehry's words above are transcribed verbatim from the video.

    Replies: @Clyde, @Barnard, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Bardon Kaldian

    Identity is not ancestry.

    Marx was right: “tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living”.

  155. @Jmaie
    @AnotherDad


    Obama was “close enough” for the blacks, and catnip for good whites. But a natural politician or salesman type–not really.
     
    Maybe not a natural politician but he was very good at it. He could give a speech to five different people and and have all five walk away thinking he'd spoken only to their particular policy preference. And the most amazing thing was that my goodwhite friends couldn't see it even when I pointed out the specifics.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Jmaie, we give politicians too much credit for their speeches. They deliver them, but do they write them? Big difference.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Buffalo Joe

    Rudolph Giuliani writes his own material. So did Mario Cuomo.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  156. @We
    @Jack D

    What a stupid post. You dont really believe that someone who won two national elections would just be a law professor at Case Western if he were black. The idea that some elite cabal selected Obama and could get him elected President of the United States twice is absurd. The man won over 50 million votes in 50 different states. He won the votes of all kinds of people - black, white, hispanic, asian, old young, Northern and Southern.

    Kamala Harris is a former Senator and California AG who punches a lot of the same buttons as Obama. She will never be President - she just doesnt have the "it" factor. Voters of all stripes don't like her.

    Obama, as are all of the people who have ever been elected president, is a unicorn.Live with it.

    Replies: @prosa123

    Kamala Harris is a former Senator and California AG who punches a lot of the same buttons as Obama. She will never be President – she just doesnt have the “it” factor. Voters of all stripes don’t like her.

    She may not ever be elected president, but she very easily could become president.

  157. @James N. Kennett
    In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term "our people", referring to African Americans.

    Any white American or European who used the same term to refer to their co-ethnics would immediately lose their career and be equated with Hitler.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @mc23, @AceDeuce, @turtle, @Corvinus, @Malcolm X-Lax, @Poirot

    Or think Ross Perot, getting into trouble for saying “you people” when addressing some blecks.

  158. The only show I watched all the way through was when Gates showed Bernie Sanders and Larry David that they shared ancestors back in Galicia or wherever it was

    But neither of them seemed exactly thrilled, and Larry David especially just glowered at Gates like Who cares? why are we talking about this? Whaddya whaddya??

    My impression is Jews do not like to talk about the Old Country.

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @Carol

    Jews do not like to talk about the Old Country

    [Galicians] had a reputation. My parents were a "mixed marriage".

  159. @Technite78

    But if we can, at the very least, embrace the understanding that race (a toxic social construction) and ancestry (a shared genetic history) are not only distinct but also fundamentally opposed — and teach that in our classrooms — it could go a long way toward freeing us from some of the binds in which scientific racism have trapped us.
     
    This passage is illogical, contradictory, and unscientific, but since it allows Gates to maintain the concept that "race bad, ancestry good" and therefore continue to run his grift at Harvard and PBS, he not only states it publicly, but likely believes it himself.

    Besides, science and logic are also the social constructions of White Supremacy, so not only can you ignore them, you must ignore them.

    Replies: @Rooster13, @stillCARealist, @Bugg, @Poirot

    Something for iSteve to look forward to: “[Maya] Jasanoff [at Harvard] is currently working on a wide-ranging book about the human preoccupation with ancestry.”
    See here:

    (interview by Niall Ferguson from Hoover)

  160. @AndrewR
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What is a "convert Iranian?"

    I'm also skeptical that she's Muslim. Religious women in Iran tend to wear the chador. Iranian law compels her to cover the rear of her hair with a hijab.

    Anyway, race is a social construct, to a certain extent. By any meaningful definition, this woman is white, albeit with noticeably Persian facial features. In Iran everyone would consider her white. She surely considers herself white. But if she came to an Anglo country she would be strongly discouraged in many ways from identifying as white. At most, she would be described with the revolting term "white-passing," by the same people who tell us race doesn't exist.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Chrisnonymous

    It’s funny–if someone puts on blackface, nobody thinks they are black, but if a woman puts on so much makeup and hair coloring, eyebrow plucking etc, that her features are largely obscured, she can get people to argue about her ethnicity.

    In reality, if you have completely secular acculturated Iranians in, e.g., your office, you still know–the question of “whiteness” aside–that they are a different ethnic group from your German, Scandinavian, English, Irish, French, Russian, Czech, etc (even your Italian and Greek) co-workers. On the other hand, you may not be able to differentiate the actual ethnic backgrounds or existence in difference of same of your German, Scandinavian, Irish, English, etc co-workers.

    The question of whether she would pass as white decades ago is actually a question about US race relations and not about “whiteness”. In times before our current wokeness, you could basically get accepted in society if you acted normal and weren’t black. Probably no WASP would be bringing her home to momma to get married, but would she get invited out to parties, make friends, work well with colleagues, etc? Yes. If that’s what whiteness means, then whiteness is not about being white, and has nothing to do with whether someone is perceived as white racially and ethnically.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Chrisnonymous

    ÜberWASP Jeb! Bush married a Mexican midget. This girl is several steps up from that.

    , @Donald A Thomson
    @Chrisnonymous

    Iranians can be distinguished from Yank Whites? How the hell do you do that?

    Iranian women outside Iran don't wear Iranian fashions. In Iran, they don't wear Western fashions, so I suppose it's easy there. In Queensland, it'd be easy to tell a 16 year old Iranian immigrant girl studying physics at High School from a Queenslander born here. She'd be the one who was horrified to discover that high school physics here excluded mathematics and was just womansplaining of the subject to try to get girls interested (physics at university requires remedial mathematics). In Iran, women become nuclear physicists as well as engineers and doctors. They have no comprehension of the strong Western feminist belief that females are stupid and lazy except in medical studies. It might have something to do with unisex education in Iran. In any case, Queensland women have something to learn from Iran. Copy winners, not losers.

    Iranian men are reluctant to wear ties but that's common now in many countries. [email protected]

    Replies: @Corvinus, @AndrewR

  161. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    OK, so Obama gets a gig as a law professor at Case Western and eventually they make him the dean. That would work. I don't think there are too many head of Harvard Law Review guys selling insurance, even adjusting for AA.

    Obama was not much like his grandpa. If anything, he took more after his grandma who became a VP at a bank. I could also see Obama as a banker, but on a higher level than his grandma, who lacked a college education. He would be a business development type guy who took clients out golfing a lot and would leave the number crunching to his S. Asian underlings.

    Replies: @We, @Art Deco

    He was appended to Jager before he went to law school. His association with Jager was during his last act as a roughly normal person. (Though, even then, he had a strange and useless job working for some Alinskyite outfit).

    Obama’s never had much interest in the law per se and it’s a reasonable inference that he was employed as an academic because it was the line of least resistance – more agreeable than actually practicing law and in a venue where the administration was willing to dispense with ordinary procedures in order to bring him on board. He taught electives the whole time, __ & the Law, published nothing.

    Obama’s not like his grandmother. She was practical and prudent, navigated the labor market well, was forgiving of her husband’s shortcomings, and avoided the pitfalls of their odd domestic situation. She was by all accounts not the least bit exhibitionistic or interested in celebrity. Her most notable failure in life was her daughter, who was a woman of deficient character.

    • Replies: @Robert Dolan
    @Art Deco

    Obama was a lazy do nothing college student.....smoked pot.....experimented sexually......white girls......men.....groomed by the cabal....had no real intellectual chops.

    Like Biden, Obama never did an honest day's work in his entire life.

    The destruction he was able to accomplish is a testament to the men behind the curtain who orchestrated Obama's every move.

    I will never get over the fact that he spoke at the funeral for slain police officers and had the audacity to rant about "racism."

    Obama will turn out to be one of the most evil characters of the 21th century.

    At the very least he is one of the biggest assholes of the 21st century.

    , @AnotherDad
    @Art Deco


    Obama’s not like his grandmother. She was practical and prudent, navigated the labor market well, was forgiving of her husband’s shortcomings, and avoided the pitfalls of their odd domestic situation. She was by all accounts not the least bit exhibitionistic or interested in celebrity. Her most notable failure in life was her daughter, who was a woman of deficient character.
     
    Excellent paragraph Art. I don't have any great interest in Obama. (It was white peoples' pathetic messiah worship that was the real interesting--and very distressing--bit.) But i read his "Dreams" thing and indeed it's his grandmother who comes off well. The sort of strong get-the-job-done woman who allowed our ancestors to roll across the prairies and settle this great land. The rest of the family--including Obama--not so much.

    So, of course, Obama throws her under the "racism!" bus.
  162. @Buffalo Joe
    @Jmaie

    Jmaie, we give politicians too much credit for their speeches. They deliver them, but do they write them? Big difference.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    Rudolph Giuliani writes his own material. So did Mario Cuomo.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Art Deco

    Art, thank you, but some of the most memorable speeches uttered by many of the presidents, were written for them. JFK, for instance. Stay safe.

  163. @Jack D
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Gehry was being specifically asked about about his DNA, not whether he was a practicing Jew. These are two completely different things.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Gehry was being specifically asked about about his DNA, not whether he was a practicing Jew.

    What’s a practicing Jew? Are there “practicing” Whites and “practicing” Blacks? Your red herring aside (gah, filter fish!), are we not now in agreement?

    You ridiculed Gehry for him thinking his sentiments, and his self-identification beyond biology, has any bearing on whether he is an actual Jew or not. You approved of Gehry being identified as “98% Ashkenazi”—presumably regardless of whether or not he also identifies as a Lubavitcher or Buddhist or atheist or brony or “sort of international” or whatever.

    But Gehry made the same argument you previously made when you denied Marx’s Jewishness in 2020—but you’ve now taken the opposite position on the issue, essentially now mocking, in Gehry’s case, your own earlier bizarre ‘transubstantiation’ take.

    So who’s right? Frank Gehry and 2020 Jack D, or JIE and 2022 Jack D?

    • Replies: @lavoisier
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    If you are expecting a reply from Jack D that is in any way intellectually coherent with his previous assertions--good luck.

    Waiting for Godot comes to mind.

  164. @Barnard
    @Robert Dolan

    In the few episodes I have watched these celebrities are always thrilled to find any non European DNA. Paul Ryan was giddy when Gates told him he was 3% Jewish. Marco Rubio was excited when Gates told him he was something like 5% Native American via someone from the Yucatan.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hypnotoad666

    I did 23 and me (mainly because they were advertising that their genomic sequencing could be used for health reasons). My ancestry came back 100% White Guy, with some B.S. allocation between German, English and Scandinavian. I have to admit it was somehow disappointing to get such a boring result.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Hypnotoad666


    I did 23 and me (mainly because they were advertising that their genomic sequencing could be used for health reasons). My ancestry came back 100% White Guy, with some B.S. allocation between German, English and Scandinavian. I have to admit it was somehow disappointing to get such a boring result.
     
    Boring ... but terrific! These are the people who created the modern world. Allow us to live lives of unparalleled comfort and knowledge.

    Only in the current minoritarian insanity could someone believe that was anything less than awesome.

    Replies: @Jack D

  165. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    He was appended to Jager before he went to law school. His association with Jager was during his last act as a roughly normal person. (Though, even then, he had a strange and useless job working for some Alinskyite outfit).

    Obama's never had much interest in the law per se and it's a reasonable inference that he was employed as an academic because it was the line of least resistance - more agreeable than actually practicing law and in a venue where the administration was willing to dispense with ordinary procedures in order to bring him on board. He taught electives the whole time, __ & the Law, published nothing.

    Obama's not like his grandmother. She was practical and prudent, navigated the labor market well, was forgiving of her husband's shortcomings, and avoided the pitfalls of their odd domestic situation. She was by all accounts not the least bit exhibitionistic or interested in celebrity. Her most notable failure in life was her daughter, who was a woman of deficient character.

    Replies: @Robert Dolan, @AnotherDad

    Obama was a lazy do nothing college student…..smoked pot…..experimented sexually……white girls……men…..groomed by the cabal….had no real intellectual chops.

    Like Biden, Obama never did an honest day’s work in his entire life.

    The destruction he was able to accomplish is a testament to the men behind the curtain who orchestrated Obama’s every move.

    I will never get over the fact that he spoke at the funeral for slain police officers and had the audacity to rant about “racism.”

    Obama will turn out to be one of the most evil characters of the 21th century.

    At the very least he is one of the biggest assholes of the 21st century.

  166. @Mike Tre
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Just like Billy Joel. Raised Catholic and totally not jewish:

    https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/mm/image?url=https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2015/05/08/050515-bday-billy-joel.jpg

    Still sang about fucking 13 year old shiksa virgins though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Reg Cæsar

    The Worst Pop Singer Ever

    Why, exactly, is Billy Joel so bad?

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2009/01/the-awfulness-of-billy-joel-explained.html

  167. @Charlotte
    @eded

    I’m not 100% sure myself, but I don’t think he meant literal cleanliness. Probably it was more that Obama often acts like an upper middle class white guy with an academic bent rather than a typical “black” politician. In America, “black politician” tends to be synonymous with “black activist,” and black activists (successful ones, anyway) tend to make a big deal out of being culturally black. Black culture tends to be perceived as low class, at least by older white voters-I’m not sure that’s still true with younger whites.

    Class and race and culture all figure into how Americans perceive each other, but they don’t map onto each other exactly. With help from the media, 2008 Obama managed to emphasize his class and culture to whites while playing up his race to black voters. It worked really well because good whites don’t want to have to think about race, while blacks put a lot of emphasis on it.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Many GoodWhites(TM) were naive enough to believe that blacks would settle down once one of “their people” reached the White House.

    Many people say that the media finally lost all credibility in 2016, but for me that had already happened by 2008. They really did go all-out to create a huge cult of personality around Obama. This campaign increased in intensity after the election, peaking during the days leading up to his inauguration. By the time he took the oath, he had already been proclaimed as the greatest hero in the history of the republic.

    The tone of the news coverage was utterly reverential. There was a great deal of steaming BS about the coming age of post-racial harmony. When Obama nominated Hillary as secretary of state, there were breathless articles about his assembling a “Lincoln-esque team of rivals” to tackle the great problems of the nation.

    There was even a sensation when was photographed shirtless on a beach in Hawaii. Newspapers ran front-page headlines screaming “OMG HE’S SO HAWT!” Even the New York Post got caught up in the frenzy:

    So much crap, so little time.

  168. @Blinky Bill
    https://twitter.com/Daniel_Soff/status/1499887536067555328?s=20&t=xleYhU5D8VJ2WlWvWNQdfw

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @AnotherDad

    He’s right–and very rational–he’s not Ukrainian. It’s not his nation or his war.

    It’s the Ukrainians who were irrational–or at least silly–letting this guy hang his hat there. Has no one learned anything from America.

  169. I think the great majority of intelligent people can’t call up an image in their heads of population density maps of the world.

    Egypt and Vietnam are social constructs.

  170. @Mike Tre
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Just like Billy Joel. Raised Catholic and totally not jewish:

    https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/mm/image?url=https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2015/05/08/050515-bday-billy-joel.jpg

    Still sang about fucking 13 year old shiksa virgins though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Reg Cæsar

    Still sang about 🔌ing 13 year old shiksa virgins though.

    That was taken as feminist satire at the time. By the simp who also did “She’s Always a Woman”, to a tune perfect for perfume or feminine hygiene commercials. The character is obviously a fool.

  171. There’s a PBS show that features free appraisals of antiques, and the owner’s reaction upon hearing the news.

    I like how the appraisers are usually not Renaissance scholars. They seem like amateur collectors who turned their hobbies into small businesses that they love doing.

    I like how ordinary people (not actors) show their true feelings. No over-the-top expressions of glee after hearing that their garage sale, \$8 purchase is worth \$49. They’re not afraid to show a little disappointment over learning that an item, that they thought was priceless, was actually junk. Even reactions to the occasional, pearl-in-an-oyster are dignified and reserved.

    I think the profster’s show would be worthwhile if he could expose fakers. Like Houdini used to do. “You claim to be the granddaughter of Czar Alexander, but our research shows your family is from Bayonne, NJ.”

    • Replies: @James J O'Meara
    @Abolish_public_education

    "I like how the appraisers are usually not Renaissance scholars. They seem like amateur collectors who turned their hobbies into small businesses that they love doing.'

    Is that true? I had the impression that some at least can claim some kind of professional background.

    Anyway, this gives me the chance to point out that I have what Scott Adams would call "a minor superpower." With no knowledge of any field whatsoever (Chinese ceramics or Jewish incunabula, for instance) I can guess the appraisal price to within 5-10 percent, just by closing my eyes and listening to the appraiser's story.

    I think it works the same way a carnie can guess your weight: he asks you a bunch of random questions, and he can somehow infer your weight from the tone and other characteristics of your voice.

    It's useless, but real. Dr. Jason Jorjani has confirmed it.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

  172. @Muggles
    @Observator

    Are you familiar with the Old Testament? It is mainly full of discussion about ancestors. Ancient histories are full of that too.

    Of course pre literate populations (or elite literate only) had no way of documenting family histories.

    Land titles were usually based on family history. Why wouldn't this be a main focus for nearly everyone? Instead you suggest some kind of selfish elite mentality. Very odd.

    In my case, my surviving family members only learned about some family history via DNA, which located members we were unaware of before. Misrepresentation by my father, for instance, and the discovery of a "half family" as a result none of us still living knew about. The big shoot out at my grandmother's wedding. Fun stuff...

    The interest in DNA and family history is grounded in everyone's favorite subject: themselves.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    The interest in DNA and family history is grounded in everyone’s favorite subject: themselves.

    It isn’t and it isn’t.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Art Deco

    Your statement isn't much.

    Yes "science" is very interested in DNA but the commercialization of DNA analysis is all about people wanting to find their ancestral history. That is big business.

    As to "everyone's favorite subject" it is a generalization, but arguably correct. You do know about mirrors, cosmetics, social media, et. al. ?

    Replies: @Art Deco

  173. @Hypnotoad666
    @Barnard

    I did 23 and me (mainly because they were advertising that their genomic sequencing could be used for health reasons). My ancestry came back 100% White Guy, with some B.S. allocation between German, English and Scandinavian. I have to admit it was somehow disappointing to get such a boring result.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    I did 23 and me (mainly because they were advertising that their genomic sequencing could be used for health reasons). My ancestry came back 100% White Guy, with some B.S. allocation between German, English and Scandinavian. I have to admit it was somehow disappointing to get such a boring result.

    Boring … but terrific! These are the people who created the modern world. Allow us to live lives of unparalleled comfort and knowledge.

    Only in the current minoritarian insanity could someone believe that was anything less than awesome.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    Scandinavians have come up in the world. At one time in America, being Scandinavian was more or less in the same category as being Polish - it make you the butt of jokes about how stupid you were. Scandinavians (perhaps aside from Danes) were not thought to be among the people who created the modern world - they were like Slavs, a people on the periphery of modernity, not at its center.

    There is also a "what have you done lately?" issue. S. Koreans cannot be said to be among the people who created the modern world. Until at least the 1970s they were a more or less 3rd worldish group, maybe comparable to Vietnam today. Even N. Korea was richer than the South (at least according to untrustworthy government statistics). But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world. Whereas in the case of say Scotland and the north of England, the opposite is true to some extent - a once highly productive place has fallen into torpor. New cell phones come from Seoul, not Glasgow.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  174. My dad was born in the early 1940’s, of illegitimate birth. After taking multiple DNA tests, I found out that I am almost a quarter Finnish. Based on the DNA, it still took me over 10 years to trace my great grandfather.

  175. Wait, I am having trouble understanding how this lineage makes Gates “half” white. All they said is that he can identify ancestors on both sides that are half-white. Whether Gates himself shakes out as half-white depends on who those ancestors’ children married, on so on, for the next 5 or 6 generations.

  176. We all know by now what a lamebrain Kamala Harris is. Barack Obama, another lamebrain mediocrity, just had better handlers. Here’s a list of Barry’s favorite books of 2021:

    https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/g38541620/barack-obama-favorite-books-2021/

    For more giggles, Google “Barry Obama Spotify”

    Happy Barry Day!

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
    @Meretricious

    "... Barack Obama, another lamebrain mediocrity, just had better handlers. .."

    Because he was better at getting good people to work for him.

  177. Long–and way down–in the thread now, but there’s a point i haven’t seen mentioned:

    This–the official “elite” position–all has a weird, pointless “Titanic Band” sort of quality to it.

    They can shout this nonsense from every rooftop in the West, but it doesn’t change reality one bit. Genetics will keep on rolling.

    In a couple decades the Chinese will probably be explicitly trying to manage eugenic fertility. A couple more beyond that probably genetic manipulation.

    Meanwhile we’ll be doing what? Insisting “race does not exist!” while robotics has made huge percentages of the population essentially useless and the state shovels welfare and soma at them?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @AnotherDad


    In a couple decades the Chinese will probably be explicitly trying to manage eugenic fertility. A couple more beyond that probably genetic manipulation.
     
    I still wouldn't bet on them.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9b9V2mUzjU

  178. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    He was appended to Jager before he went to law school. His association with Jager was during his last act as a roughly normal person. (Though, even then, he had a strange and useless job working for some Alinskyite outfit).

    Obama's never had much interest in the law per se and it's a reasonable inference that he was employed as an academic because it was the line of least resistance - more agreeable than actually practicing law and in a venue where the administration was willing to dispense with ordinary procedures in order to bring him on board. He taught electives the whole time, __ & the Law, published nothing.

    Obama's not like his grandmother. She was practical and prudent, navigated the labor market well, was forgiving of her husband's shortcomings, and avoided the pitfalls of their odd domestic situation. She was by all accounts not the least bit exhibitionistic or interested in celebrity. Her most notable failure in life was her daughter, who was a woman of deficient character.

    Replies: @Robert Dolan, @AnotherDad

    Obama’s not like his grandmother. She was practical and prudent, navigated the labor market well, was forgiving of her husband’s shortcomings, and avoided the pitfalls of their odd domestic situation. She was by all accounts not the least bit exhibitionistic or interested in celebrity. Her most notable failure in life was her daughter, who was a woman of deficient character.

    Excellent paragraph Art. I don’t have any great interest in Obama. (It was white peoples’ pathetic messiah worship that was the real interesting–and very distressing–bit.) But i read his “Dreams” thing and indeed it’s his grandmother who comes off well. The sort of strong get-the-job-done woman who allowed our ancestors to roll across the prairies and settle this great land. The rest of the family–including Obama–not so much.

    So, of course, Obama throws her under the “racism!” bus.

  179. @Bardon Kaldian
    Obama and similar types cannot be considered whites because they look differently. Race is looks plus some culture.

    Population genetics has become the new marshal in race town, but we all know that it is generally about generic looks, combined with social mores & culture.

    This woman is Iranian (real Iranian, not a convert). Of course she's Muslim. Of course she's not European. But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not "white"?

    https://i.imgur.com/fyu8KMo.png

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Blinky Bill, @PhysicistDave, @Chrisnonymous, @Hapalong Cassidy, @AndrewR, @Art Deco, @J.Ross, @quewin, @AnotherDad, @Greysquirrell, @Clyde, @JMcG, @Hypnotoad666, @Pop Warner, @Richard of Melbourne, @dindunuffins

    Caucasian. She is part of the White race.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @dindunuffins


    Caucasian. She is part of the White race.
     
    She's still a wog.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  180. According to this tree, Bill Gates is actually the IV, not the III. And his grandaunt was Pearl Gates. Good heavens!

    https://gw.geneanet.org/tdowling?n=gates&oc=2&p=william+henry&type=tree

    Henry Louis’s Gates line is somewhat murkier than William Henry’s.

    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gates-2333
    https://www.geni.com/people/Jane-Gates/6000000028591624834

    HLG has roots in Cresaptown, Md, as do two of my nieces. They could be related. Cresaptown is not far from Accident.

  181. @AnotherDad
    Long--and way down--in the thread now, but there's a point i haven't seen mentioned:


    This--the official "elite" position--all has a weird, pointless "Titanic Band" sort of quality to it.

    They can shout this nonsense from every rooftop in the West, but it doesn't change reality one bit. Genetics will keep on rolling.

    In a couple decades the Chinese will probably be explicitly trying to manage eugenic fertility. A couple more beyond that probably genetic manipulation.

    Meanwhile we'll be doing what? Insisting "race does not exist!" while robotics has made huge percentages of the population essentially useless and the state shovels welfare and soma at them?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    In a couple decades the Chinese will probably be explicitly trying to manage eugenic fertility. A couple more beyond that probably genetic manipulation.

    I still wouldn’t bet on them.

  182. @dindunuffins
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Caucasian. She is part of the White race.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Caucasian. She is part of the White race.

    She’s still a wog.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Reg Cæsar

    Iranians conquered the western oriental gentlemen, can they then be of the same stock?

  183. res says:
    @John Henry
    If any of you are interested in your personal DNA analysis I highly recommend FamilyTreeDNA.com.

    It seems to have the most comprehensive testing for the areas used in genealogy. Specific Y-DNA, MtDNA, and Autosomal (Family Finder) testing. As with the other companies the last one here includes ethnic analysis.

    If you are interested in health analysis then maybe 23&me. Plus they will tell you how many Neanderthal markers you have. Good for cocktail parties.


    Ancestry.com
    is third best to these two.

    You may want to look into DNA-Explained by Roberta Estes.

    Replies: @res

    Thanks. I think it depends on what your goals are and how hard you are willing to work.

    For finding relatives easily, Ancestry is the best. Largest collection of DNA tests along with most (well, a larger proportion than the other sites, anyway) users having family trees (I believe lacking at 23andMe). Their ThruLines feature (automatically find relatives based on DNA matches along with tree comparisons) can make it extremely easy to find relatives and fill out your own tree. Two notable non-features (I assume this is why you rank Ancestry last?). Ancestry does not support uploading other DNA tests to their site and lacks a chromosome browser. But you can download test data from there to upload to other sites. If you have any interest in genealogy I would recommend waiting for Black Friday and getting a DNA test for about \$59 including a three month membership. Then build your tree (at least back to deceased ancestors who will be easy to look up in records and in other trees, living people pose privacy issues) while waiting for your DNA test to come back. After the test results are in, work through what ThruLines has to tell you then consider downloading your test data from them and uploading it to other sites.

    For doing more sophisticated analyses (e.g. using chromosome browser data) you really need one of the other providers: 23andMe, FTDNA, and MyHeritage all have better tools for looking at chromosome data, but they differ. 23andMe does not support uploading other tests to their site, but the latter two do. For the geeks among us, the genetic clustering tools (e.g. at MH) are cool.

    Any of the above tests can be uploaded to GEDmatch for analysis.

    There are many harder core tools out there, For example.
    https://isogg.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_Analysis_Tool
    https://isogg.org/wiki/DNA_Painter

    For Y-DNA and MtDNA, FTDNA is the best easy solution, but also consider extracting that information from whole genome data. Those FTDNA tests are relatively expensive. Also look into yfull.com
    The big win for those FTDNA tests is the ability to use the data on their site (e.g. in your profile or to find matches). They don’t allow uploading that data (unlike autosomal).

    For health analysis you can upload test data to
    https://promethease.com/
    https://impute.me/

    For working with family trees as inexpensively as possible (Ancestry is expensive over time, and the others aren’t much better) I would recommend looking into:
    https://www.familysearch.org/en/
    https://www.rootsmagic.com/

    The nice thing about Rootsmagic is it integrates well with FamilySearch, Ancestry, and MyHeritage.

    P.S. Some more links to support above.

    This 2019 article quotes 10M at Ancestry, 5M at 23andMe, 2.4M at MyHeritage.
    https://www.consumerreports.org/health-privacy/how-to-delete-genetic-data-from-23andme-ancrestry-other-sites-a3585380508

    YFull https://www.yfull.com/

    GEDmatch https://www.gedmatch.com/

    • Thanks: AceDeuce
  184. @Meretricious
    We all know by now what a lamebrain Kamala Harris is. Barack Obama, another lamebrain mediocrity, just had better handlers. Here's a list of Barry's favorite books of 2021:

    https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/g38541620/barack-obama-favorite-books-2021/

    For more giggles, Google "Barry Obama Spotify"

    Happy Barry Day!

    Replies: @James B. Shearer

    “… Barack Obama, another lamebrain mediocrity, just had better handlers. ..”

    Because he was better at getting good people to work for him.

  185. @Observator

    hoping, among other things, to find out where their ancestors hail from
     
    DNA “testing” seems like yet another narcissistic trend in a postmodern culture that has traded respect for the individual for infatuation with the ego, to the exclusion of common sense, the national community and most else. Not so long ago most people didn’t concern themselves knowing what year they were born in, let alone who their g-g-g-g-g-granddaddy was or where he came from. Genealogies started as inventions of the powerful royalty and nobility who cobbled together the fantasy of “distinguished bloodlines” in order to empower them to rule (i.e., steal from) everyone else. This seems another case of the hoi polloi aping their “betters” while denying the reality of how class determines their roles in the great land of freedom and equality.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Muggles, @James J O'Meara

    “This seems another case of the hoi polloi aping their “betters” ”

    Their “betters” know it’s “hoi poloi,” not “the hoi poloi.”

  186. The same people who preached “We are all one in Christ” also said to sell all your goods, live in common, don’t marry, etc. All of which made a kind of sense, since Christ was coming back in a couple of weeks to destroy Satan’s kingdom (aka the world) and establish his rule over the New Heaven and New Earth.

    Since Jesus lied, all this should have been shit-canned long ago, but the grift was too sweet.

  187. res says:
    @Rob
    @eded

    Yeah, I took “clean” to mean corruption and scandal-free. The media was unwilling to admit that every other black pol should just be assumed to be taking bribes, so they pretended that Biden thought black pols have not heard of soap. Biden’s a Democrat, so he couldn’t say that most black pols are corrupt. If Biden had not said that, it’s unlikely, though not impossible, Obama would have tapped him for VP.

    I wonder if Harris was trying to pull a Biden on Biden when she “called him out” on his opposition to forced busing back in the sixties. It was a gotcha, I guess, but no one supports busing these days. Its former supporters have decided they were right, but “the country was not ready.” So, the day after the debate, Harris clarified that she does not support busing, either. “Senator, you showed courage, foresight, restraint, and leadership! That’s wrong!”

    It shows that the Democrats are in a tough spot. None of their seven dwarves had any appeal outside their niche, gay, female, black...with other Democrats, to say nothing of swingers, er, swing voters. It does give me some hope that Democrats are learning Trump’s lesson. The party that tilts the country back toward actually producing things will have a huge advantage. If Donald Trump could win on bringing back jobs and expelling aliens, then a normal-ish person could get a 2/3 majority. Note, normal person, not politician. No politician could survive the donors putting all their money and whispers against his opponent. Regardless, at least Biden seems to realize that we need to reshore industries. Otherwise, when China takes Taiwan, they don’t have to worry about sanctions. They can sanction the West. We need silicon chips more than China needs wastepaper and scrap metal.

    Replies: @res

    I wonder if Harris was trying to pull a Biden on Biden when she “called him out” on his opposition to forced busing back in the sixties. It was a gotcha, I guess, but no one supports busing these days. Its former supporters have decided they were right, but “the country was not ready.” So, the day after the debate, Harris clarified that she does not support busing, either. “Senator, you showed courage, foresight, restraint, and leadership! That’s wrong!”

    Given the way things turned out (Harris as VP), I wonder if there is any chance that was a bit of kabuki theater serving as a dog whistle that Biden was not all in on the insanity. Doubtful, but…

  188. @Abolish_public_education
    There's a PBS show that features free appraisals of antiques, and the owner's reaction upon hearing the news.

    I like how the appraisers are usually not Renaissance scholars. They seem like amateur collectors who turned their hobbies into small businesses that they love doing.

    I like how ordinary people (not actors) show their true feelings. No over-the-top expressions of glee after hearing that their garage sale, $8 purchase is worth $49. They're not afraid to show a little disappointment over learning that an item, that they thought was priceless, was actually junk. Even reactions to the occasional, pearl-in-an-oyster are dignified and reserved.

    I think the profster's show would be worthwhile if he could expose fakers. Like Houdini used to do. "You claim to be the granddaughter of Czar Alexander, but our research shows your family is from Bayonne, NJ."

    Replies: @James J O'Meara

    “I like how the appraisers are usually not Renaissance scholars. They seem like amateur collectors who turned their hobbies into small businesses that they love doing.’

    Is that true? I had the impression that some at least can claim some kind of professional background.

    Anyway, this gives me the chance to point out that I have what Scott Adams would call “a minor superpower.” With no knowledge of any field whatsoever (Chinese ceramics or Jewish incunabula, for instance) I can guess the appraisal price to within 5-10 percent, just by closing my eyes and listening to the appraiser’s story.

    I think it works the same way a carnie can guess your weight: he asks you a bunch of random questions, and he can somehow infer your weight from the tone and other characteristics of your voice.

    It’s useless, but real. Dr. Jason Jorjani has confirmed it.

    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @James J O'Meara

    I'm not a regular watcher of the show. I just checked its website. It bios a number of cast appraisers. Not surprisingly, the Ivy types are the ones based in NYC & SF, but they're not the rule.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  189. Anonymous[352] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, a national ethnic competition seems to have arisen, as DC Negroes appear to be out-atrociting Russian soldiers in Ukraine:

    https://nypost.com/2022/03/05/washington-dc-man-sedrick-miller-killed-while-carrying-baby-holding-hand-of-child/

  190. @Chrisnonymous
    @AndrewR

    It's funny--if someone puts on blackface, nobody thinks they are black, but if a woman puts on so much makeup and hair coloring, eyebrow plucking etc, that her features are largely obscured, she can get people to argue about her ethnicity.

    In reality, if you have completely secular acculturated Iranians in, e.g., your office, you still know--the question of "whiteness" aside--that they are a different ethnic group from your German, Scandinavian, English, Irish, French, Russian, Czech, etc (even your Italian and Greek) co-workers. On the other hand, you may not be able to differentiate the actual ethnic backgrounds or existence in difference of same of your German, Scandinavian, Irish, English, etc co-workers.

    The question of whether she would pass as white decades ago is actually a question about US race relations and not about "whiteness". In times before our current wokeness, you could basically get accepted in society if you acted normal and weren't black. Probably no WASP would be bringing her home to momma to get married, but would she get invited out to parties, make friends, work well with colleagues, etc? Yes. If that's what whiteness means, then whiteness is not about being white, and has nothing to do with whether someone is perceived as white racially and ethnically.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Donald A Thomson

    ÜberWASP Jeb! Bush married a Mexican midget. This girl is several steps up from that.

  191. @Carol
    The only show I watched all the way through was when Gates showed Bernie Sanders and Larry David that they shared ancestors back in Galicia or wherever it was

    But neither of them seemed exactly thrilled, and Larry David especially just glowered at Gates like Who cares? why are we talking about this? Whaddya whaddya??

    My impression is Jews do not like to talk about the Old Country.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    Jews do not like to talk about the Old Country

    [Galicians] had a reputation. My parents were a “mixed marriage”.

  192. I was wondering how the left would avoid the intractable race contradictions in their worldview, e.g. “Race isn’t real” and “Race matters” especially as DNA research advances.

    Now I know. They’re gonna double down on Doublethink. There is no limit to it.

    Doublethink: The ability to hold two completely contradictory beliefs at the same time, and to believe they are both true.

    From 1984:

    To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself.

    Logic does not matter to these people. Only Power. It will end in violence, and/or a boot stomping on a human face…forever.

  193. @Pop Warner
    @Bardon Kaldian


    But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not “white”?
     
    Sure, I would (if you consider me sane). Whites are people from Europe. She is Aryan, but she is not White. If you believe that White is looks + culture/social mores, then it's very easy to for her non-European culture and customs to put her outside of the White category.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @occasional lurker

    I’ve interacted with enough Iranians to say their culture isn’t as alien as you think. Most don’t even like Islam.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @AndrewR

    You're dealing with a biased sample. The Iranians who live in LA may not like Islam much - that's why they are in LA. But the millions of Iranians who live in villages in the countryside, who you will never meet, like it plenty.

    What caused the Iranian Revolution in part is that the kind of Iranians that you know, who lived in Tehran before they lived in LA, had a low birth rate like all Westernized people, and the people in the countryside had a high birthrate, so after a while there were a lot more of the country types, enough to take over the country. You see the same dynamic in Afghanistan, Turkey, etc.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  194. @James J O'Meara
    @Abolish_public_education

    "I like how the appraisers are usually not Renaissance scholars. They seem like amateur collectors who turned their hobbies into small businesses that they love doing.'

    Is that true? I had the impression that some at least can claim some kind of professional background.

    Anyway, this gives me the chance to point out that I have what Scott Adams would call "a minor superpower." With no knowledge of any field whatsoever (Chinese ceramics or Jewish incunabula, for instance) I can guess the appraisal price to within 5-10 percent, just by closing my eyes and listening to the appraiser's story.

    I think it works the same way a carnie can guess your weight: he asks you a bunch of random questions, and he can somehow infer your weight from the tone and other characteristics of your voice.

    It's useless, but real. Dr. Jason Jorjani has confirmed it.

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education

    I’m not a regular watcher of the show. I just checked its website. It bios a number of cast appraisers. Not surprisingly, the Ivy types are the ones based in NYC & SF, but they’re not the rule.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Abolish_public_education

    There's a British edition (which began in 1981) and an American edition (which began about 15 years later); there is a significant difference in the formatting. The American edition is almost defunct. What they broadcast now are clips from previous years' programs, supplemented with a note on how the price has changed since the original broadcast. Every once in a while, you see new content, but less than three hours worth a year if that.

  195. @Robert Dolan
    @Altai

    Wow....I had no idea that Alba did the same thing as Longoria.....had the same reaction to finding out she's white.

    In fact Alba is 87% European as compared to Longoria at 70%.

    This reveals just how much impact the anti-white brainwashing has had on people.....even rich and attractive celebrities have to be ashamed of being white.

    Of course, a celebrities job description would include kowtowing to TPTB and pushing the anti-white agenda to be able to continue to get work in Hollywood.

    Replies: @awry, @Altai

    “This reveals just how much impact the anti-white brainwashing has had on people…..even rich and attractive celebrities have to be ashamed of being white.”

    Same thing occurred in Mexico long before the US. Mexico is founded on the 1911 Freemason Revolution, not very different from the Bolshevik one on Russia (including mass murdering priests and Christian believers). It was de facto one party state since then, except a short period. It’s ruling ideology is cultural leftist (and Mexico City’s current mayor is a Jewish woman descended from Communist Latvian Jews – whose Communist ideologies didn’t prevent them from making a living as Capitalist businessmen of course).
    Mexico’s elite tend to be more Euro looking than the peasantry, but even the elite has to badmouth Spanish colonialist/conquistador heritage – Cortes’ statue was removed long ago from its former prominent place etc. – and they are LARPing as if they were pure descendants of Aztecs)

    • Thanks: JMcG
  196. @Hat Tip
    @AndrewR

    I guess the normie Republicans would be those following a christian humanism -- "we're all god's children" -- so, yes, there might be races but it's not particularly important in moral terms. Just love your neighbor.

    Secular humanism is we're all morally equal simply as humans -- "all the same underneath" -- and thus they have to fight off any discussion of real or biological differences among humans in order to maintain the ideological construct against the risks of tribalism.

    Replies: @Alrenous

    Just love your neighbor.

    Further, you’re not allowed to have any say in who your neighbour is. Love the ones that mind their own business and also the ones that regularly dispose of their trash on your lawn and constantly bother your daughter.

  197. @Arclight
    As with all things related to race, the attempt to erase biological reality is intended to obscure the fact that there are historical peoples whose achievements and innovations created modernity and others whose ancestors highest achievements were some pottery or masks.

    The US would have a much healthier society if we taught kids they are the inheritors of a great civilization via culture and they should be proud of our history, but that would require blacks to give up on the grievance politics that have granted them political influence far beyond their numbers or economic impact, as well as further assimilation into mainstream cultural norms and white progressive to lose their savior mentality.

    Replies: @Goddard, @Buffalo Joe, @Alrenous

    Bantu-Americans have no influence. They didn’t want to spike their own murder rate. Even Bantu children want to have fathers.
    The slaves were never freed and they’re doing what they’re told. They have protections if and only if they’re on one of massa’s errands. Ref: Thomas Sowell.

  198. The term “black” got to be a race because, fun fact, Asians do look all alike – if you’re not Asian. Likewise all Africans look alike and Englishmen couldn’t be bothered to tell the difference. As a result English has a wealth of terms – slurs especially – for each little nubbin of genetic difference in Europe, but only one for Africa as a whole. (Doubtless French and German have lovely dysphemisms for Limey as well, among many others.)

    It’s a relative thing. To the Oriental, all Occidentals look alike. They likewise are very aware of every jot and tittle of how they differ from other Orientals. If you confuse a Korean with Viet they will not be happy with you.

    Under Fanatical Egalitarianism we have to pretend everyone is as similar as possible, so Americans like to pretend there’s no meaningful difference between various Caucasians, rather than noticing the rather glaring differences between various kinds of Negroid. Learning more about foreigners wouldn’t be very narcissistic, now would it? Hence, “white,” back-formed from the ignorant and incurious terms for African.

    As a bonus, almost every American slave was Bantu specifically. Originally from the Congo. Anyone inclined to start noticing distinctions has to leave America to have a decent chance of finding much in the way of distinctions.
    Africans in Africa can certainly tell the difference, though. They regularly attempt to commit genocide across these lines.
    More specifically Bantu regularly attempt to commit genocide of any neighbouring non-Bantu.

  199. @Richard of Melbourne
    @Bardon Kaldian

    To modify Elvis Costello: There are many things you can cover up with lipstick and powder.

    Replies: @Clyde

    To modify Elvis Costello: There are many things you can cover up with lipstick and powder.

    EC is a lamer who wrote that great tune. Then Dave Edmunds come along does it 10x better. Dave Edmunds , what a dude back in the day! There are many versions on you tube but this is my favorite.

  200. @Corvinus
    @AnotherDad

    "The whole psuedo-scientific attack on actual Anglo-Saxon science–and simple barnyard common sense–notions of race and genetics (and IQ to boot), is an almost wholly owned Jewish operation and has been going on a very long time."

    Oh, boy, here we go again with this nonsense.

    In biological taxonomy, race is an informal rank in the taxonomic hierarchy for which various definitions exist. We have seen that races may be genetically distinct populations of individuals within the same species, or they may be defined in geographical or physiological categories. Forensic anthropologists (and geneticists) are employing the term “genetic ancestry”. Genomes from reference populations around the globe have been collected, with the most diversity found in African populations. “There is much more diversity between them than the combined African genome would have between the European genome,” says Nicolas Robine, director of computational biology at the New York Genome Center (NYGC), a nonprofit academic research institution that serves as a collaborative hub for genomic research. “The proportion that is variable is very small, compared to that which is common to everybody.”

    https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/forensic.2021.0004

    http://eknygos.lsmuni.lt/springer/657/281-316.pdf

    Indeed, race is partially based on physical similarities within groups that are patently obvious to the naked eye, but it was assigned by us–human beings–to have an inherent physical or biological meaning. Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time.

    –In the 1700’s, Carl Linnaeus four “varieties” of humans (Europaeus albus, Americanus rubescens, Asiaticus fuscus, and Africanus niger), even going so far as to specify behavioral characteristics–Americanus as “unyielding, cheerful, free”; Europaeus as “light, wise, inventor”; Asiaticus as “stern, haughty, greedy”; and Africanus as “sly, sluggish, neglectful”. Clearly, Linnaeus was basing these characteristics on social conventions.

    –In the early 1800’s, Samuel Morton used his collection of human skulls to link the size and shape of them to correlate each with intelligence, and his imagined hierarchy was employed by white Northerners and Southerns to justify slavey.

    –Then there is Louis Agassiz who touted that different races of humanity were of different origins.

    –My personal favorite, however, is Madison Grant.

    Source –> https://www.dartmouth.edu/~hist32/History/White.htm


    “Between 1880 and WWI, the United States experienced large waves of European immigration. These “new immigrants” however did not come from northern Europe and represented a frightening diversity to many. The difference perceived in these immigrants was frequently described as a racial difference in which Europeans were represented as, not one, but many races identified by region (Alpine, Mediterranean, Slavic and Nordic) or by alleged head shape (roundheads, slopeheads). Madison Grant, a biologist and curator for the American Museum of Natural History in New York explained in his book “The Passing of the Great Race that White Americans”, the great race, were losing out to hordes of inferior European immigrants. Grant’s book was so popular it experienced 7 reprints before WWII. According to Grant, “These new immigrants were no longer exclusively members of the Nordic race as were the earlier ones…The transportation lines advertised America as a land flowing with milk and honey and the European governments took the opportunity to unload upon careless, wealthy and hospitable America the sweepings of their jails and asylums…Our jails, insane asylums and almshouses are filled with this human flotsam and the whole tone of american life, social, moral and political has been lowered and vulgarized by them.”
     
    So, which taxonomy ought to be the “standard”? Are all somehow on equal intellectual and biological footing, or is one more precise compared to the rest?

    Stated another way, from a psychological standpoint, we have an easier time identifying and sympathizing with people who look like us or who belong to the same in-group as us, even though that grouping ultimately was constructed arbitrarily. Again, in the 1800 and 1900’s race group divisions were based on skin color and physical appearance according to scientists, and then divided into white, black, yellow, and red. Then scientists stated there were more gradient subtypes based on other characteristics.

    So, where is this line drawn between “the races”? Does it not lead to a potential fractioning all the way down to the individual? Think about it. Attempts to divide humanity into race has used as few as three, then up to more than thirty. Humans have been migrating back and forth across the continents for over 200,000 years. Genetic traits have been mixed and remixed over and over. To me, in the end, how many races of humans exist depends on one’s meaning of the word…race.

    Replies: @bomag

    Just more of your usual moral equivocating. Sheds no light on the issue; just obfuscates.

    “There is much more diversity between [the African genomes] than the combined African genome would have between the European genome,”

    This is called a fallacy for a reason. There is much more price difference within competing stores than between competing stores, but the few cents difference between the stores is what decides success or failure. This feature of overlapping bell curves has been explained here many times, but you are unwilling or unable to grasp the concept.

    You then, as usual, launch into the continuum fallacy, another concept you are unwilling and unable to grasp.

    Gee, there has been much argument and disagreement about classifying the difference between phtalo blue and cobalt blue. In the end, it’s just an arbitrary distinction within the wavelengths 450-500 nm, so color must not exist.

    You know, the Norwegians used to complain about Swedish immigration, but it all worked out okay. The complaints have changed over time; I can’t tell any difference today; therefore, differences don’t exist. Congolese immigration into Norway is in this same context; ergo, it is good and proper and we should not complain about it.

  201. Does anyone else have Black Fatigue ?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Wake Up

    IMO, you can in domestic situations, institutional situations, and the public square overwater a population. Too much attention and deference and all kinds of trouble blooms. In regard to the black population, you have insufficient attention in one realm (lax discipline in the schools and on the streets) along with the wretched excess in another (Black History Month, &c). Neither are doing anyone any good bar the officialdom who are in the business of manufacturing patron-client relationships.

    , @Meretricious
    @Wake Up

    "Does anyone else have Black Fatigue ?"
    that's obviously a rhetorical question

    , @Mike Tre
    @Wake Up

    True story. I just got back from gym. I was using a power rack to do pullups then go right into strict press. There's a negro who works out there who is all show and no go as far as weightlifting is concerned. Hulks around, slams weights around. Avoids using real compound lifts to conceal the fact that he's not very strong. Does a lot of stupid, useless lifts. He comes up to me and smacks me on the arm and says (not asks): I need to do some squats, you can go over there to do pull ups. I explained calmly that I was going straight into my next lift right there. He said ok and then threw all his gear down right under the left side of the bar and stalked off, so I had to step around his crap to load and unload the bar. I made sure to take my sweet ass time after that.

    But yes, I have serious negro fatigue. It seems I can't go a day without having to put up with their ignorant, entitled behavior.

  202. @Wake Up
    Does anyone else have Black Fatigue ?

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Meretricious, @Mike Tre

    IMO, you can in domestic situations, institutional situations, and the public square overwater a population. Too much attention and deference and all kinds of trouble blooms. In regard to the black population, you have insufficient attention in one realm (lax discipline in the schools and on the streets) along with the wretched excess in another (Black History Month, &c). Neither are doing anyone any good bar the officialdom who are in the business of manufacturing patron-client relationships.

  203. @eded
    @AnotherDad

    What did Biden mean by "clean" in his Obama comments? Did he mean uncorrupt compared to other black politicians? Was he actually referring to hygiene? What was he getting at? I've never understood that comment. I am not American so am I missing something obvious?

    Replies: @Muggles, @Charon, @Rob, @Charlotte, @AceDeuce

    By “clean” he meant his demeanor, his overall self-presentation. You say you’re not American, so not sure how helpful this is but JFK was regarded similarly as the first “clean” Irish politiciam in America.

    Before him Irish pols were either little red nosed leprechaun looking men with hard to decipher accents, or big Tip O’Neill size fatasses with wrinkled suits sprinkled with cigar ashes and food stains. All of them were cheerfully and openly corrupt, drunk half the time, and sloppily sentimental to a fault. JFK was cool, well tailored and groomed, Harvard degree, spoke well, and was in command of his emotions.

    As much as I dislike the whole family, Mario Cuomo was the same thing for Italians. Not a mobster or an organ grinder.

    Niggrows, of course, are the worst–black politicians and preachers were/are walking jokes. Even Martin Loofah Kink was a bloviating bullshit artist with a sordid personal life. (Dying was a good career move.) His own people-other niggrow activists, referred to him behind his back as “De Lawd” for all his grandiose hot air.

    Obama, despite his weird facial features, is a “cool” niggrow with no rough edges. He’s more scrawny than trim, but, with a well tailored suit on, he looks fine. His voice is good, although he’s not a good speaker, but he does avoid the emotional incontinence of blacks, and has no niggrow accent-except his fake one used to pander.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @AceDeuce

    (Dying was a good career move.)

    Zinger of the fiscal quarter.

    Aging well is difficult for celebrities in the internet age; Blacks doubly so (OJ, Bill Cosby).

    I'm still hearing accolades for Tupac.

  204. @Robert Dolan
    @Altai

    Wow....I had no idea that Alba did the same thing as Longoria.....had the same reaction to finding out she's white.

    In fact Alba is 87% European as compared to Longoria at 70%.

    This reveals just how much impact the anti-white brainwashing has had on people.....even rich and attractive celebrities have to be ashamed of being white.

    Of course, a celebrities job description would include kowtowing to TPTB and pushing the anti-white agenda to be able to continue to get work in Hollywood.

    Replies: @awry, @Altai

    I can’t fine the video so maybe I got them mixed up but other ones I found of her had her still expressing shock finding out she was so ‘European’.

  205. @Abolish_public_education
    @James J O'Meara

    I'm not a regular watcher of the show. I just checked its website. It bios a number of cast appraisers. Not surprisingly, the Ivy types are the ones based in NYC & SF, but they're not the rule.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    There’s a British edition (which began in 1981) and an American edition (which began about 15 years later); there is a significant difference in the formatting. The American edition is almost defunct. What they broadcast now are clips from previous years’ programs, supplemented with a note on how the price has changed since the original broadcast. Every once in a while, you see new content, but less than three hours worth a year if that.

  206. @Unit472
    Race and culture are heavily intertwined among American negroes. Less so among whites. I'm speculating here but I doubt Gates Irish great great grandfather actually raised the child of his negress and it is even less likely that the half negro child of a white women in pre slavery time was raised by her mother ( likely confirmed by the inability of ancestry researchers to identify either mother or father).

    Given the social realities of pre 20th century America, Gates forbears would have been put in the negro bucket and precluded from advancing his white racial or social characteristics any further until AA came along post 1960. Still, had his ancestors clung to the high yellow caste within the negro race he would have been in a good position both racially and culturally to advance in modern America something that a ''blue gum'' like Ben Crump could not aspire to which, in large part, explains why Crump deals with George Floyd types and Gates PBS even if Crump is the richer of the two.

    Replies: @thenon

    That social reality was a result of the destruction of the “free persons of color” social status in the south after the civil war. Prior to that unpleasantness, light skinned free negroes were a slave owning insular group that inbred only with other light blacks and the occasional white. They were considered neither black nor white, but had a place in French Creole society. The Civil War destroyed their place in society along with much of the South. George Herriman, the creator of Krazy Kat, Was a member of this newly disenfranchised group and left New Orleans for California to flower in the more open society of 1910s CA.

  207. @Pop Warner
    @Bardon Kaldian


    But- would anyone mentally sane say that she is not “white”?
     
    Sure, I would (if you consider me sane). Whites are people from Europe. She is Aryan, but she is not White. If you believe that White is looks + culture/social mores, then it's very easy to for her non-European culture and customs to put her outside of the White category.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @occasional lurker

    If your definition of “White” is “European” (unlike that of the US Census, but like that of the wokesters) ), just say “European”or even “North European” or whatever it is that you are talking about. In old style scientific racism, White was pretty much synonymous with what today’s population geneticists call West Eurasians plus North African. Jew, Arabs and Iranians were White to Hitler (although not all of them were “Aryan”).

  208. @Reg Cæsar
    @dindunuffins


    Caucasian. She is part of the White race.
     
    She's still a wog.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Iranians conquered the western oriental gentlemen, can they then be of the same stock?

  209. @Buffalo Joe
    @Almost Missouri

    Almost Missouri, Gates is also the founder of the Root website which is as pro black and anti white as possible. He is also the cause of obama's "beer summit", where obama basically made the Cambridge, Ma. polce dept. apologize to Gates for simply doing their job. A job that Gates made into a cause when all he had to do was show an ID.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @Unladen Swallow

    The police department might have grovelled and apologized, but the police officer who got Gates’ ire and was personally invited by Obama and Biden to the White House Beer Summit did not, to the best of my memory. In fact, Steve pointed out he demonstrated a lot more backbone than more famous people like James Watson did.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Unladen Swallow


    The police department might have grovelled and apologized, but the police officer who got Gates’ ire and was personally invited by Obama and Biden to the White House Beer Summit did not, to the best of my memory. In fact, Steve pointed out he demonstrated a lot more backbone than more famous people like James Watson did.
     
    Sgt. Crowley, IIRC, from a Boston Irish family - my guess is that he had a strong community that wouldn't have allowed the powers that be to totally destroy him and leave him destitute. The lesson is that the antidote to cancellation is an organic community that can itself cancel the cancellation and doesn't fear the magic spells (in this case, "racist").
  210. @Unladen Swallow
    @Buffalo Joe

    The police department might have grovelled and apologized, but the police officer who got Gates' ire and was personally invited by Obama and Biden to the White House Beer Summit did not, to the best of my memory. In fact, Steve pointed out he demonstrated a lot more backbone than more famous people like James Watson did.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    The police department might have grovelled and apologized, but the police officer who got Gates’ ire and was personally invited by Obama and Biden to the White House Beer Summit did not, to the best of my memory. In fact, Steve pointed out he demonstrated a lot more backbone than more famous people like James Watson did.

    Sgt. Crowley, IIRC, from a Boston Irish family – my guess is that he had a strong community that wouldn’t have allowed the powers that be to totally destroy him and leave him destitute. The lesson is that the antidote to cancellation is an organic community that can itself cancel the cancellation and doesn’t fear the magic spells (in this case, “racist”).

    • Agree: bomag
  211. @Bardon Kaldian
    Alright, I'll just c-p a part of what a smart race-denialist liberal woman wrote:
    https://qr.ae/pGdW5w

    How DNA really works

    Now, there are some DNA sequences known as “genetic markers” that usually tend to be associated with people whose ancestors came from certain general regions of the world, but these markers are not very exact. A DNA test can tell you based on certain genetic markers that an individual probably has some kind of ancestors who lived at some point in the general region of southeastern Europe, but it can’t tell you whether any of those ancestors were classical Greeks.

    Furthermore, these genetic markers are not even always 100% reliable, since the same mutation can have occurred in multiple places at different times. For instance, the MTHFR C677T mutation is a genetic marker that is common in people of Mexican ancestry, but also in people Chilean, Chinese, and Italian ancestries. It’s also less commonly found in other populations of people from all over the world, including western Europe, Britain, Ireland, and Colombia.

    If a geneticist looks at someone’s DNA and finds they have the MTHFR C677T mutation, they have no way of knowing whether the person carrying that gene inherited it from a person of Italian ancestry, a person of Chinese ancestry, a person of Mexican ancestry, or some other person from some other part of the world who just happened to have the mutation. This is the case with many genetic markers. In many cases, the marker itself is present in people from all different populations from all over the world, but it happens to be particularly common in people from a certain part of the world.

    Unfortunately, the idea that DNA testing can tell you your exact ancestry is an idea that has been irresponsibly promoted by companies like 23andMe and Ancestry.com. Advertisements produced by these companies often show people with pie charts showing that a certain percent of their DNA comes “from” some region or another. If you actually take one of these DNA tests, they will give you your own pie chart. This simplistic way of presenting the data is deeply misleading and serves to reinvigorate a lot of old, debunked racialist ideas.

    The reality is that DNA tests can tell you some very basic information about the general part of the world that some of your ancestors probably come from, but, when it comes down to exact percentages, they are highly unreliable. When a company tells you that you are a certain percent “from” a certain region, what they really mean is that that percentage of the genetic markers they identified within your larger genome are often associated with members of a reference group composed of people with known ancestry in that part of the world.

    These tests can be helpful if you really don’t know which part of the world your ancestors come from, but they really can’t tell you anything specific with a high degree of accuracy. For more information here is a fairly recent article: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/1/28/18194560/ancestry-dna-23-me-myheritage-science-explainer
    from Vox talking about the limitations of DNA ancestry tests as well as some of the ways DNA companies can mislead people through their overly simplistic presentations of data.

    The problem as it applies to the question at hand

    Now, DNA ancestry tests are already not especially reliable when it comes to determining the exact ancestry of living people, but they get even more unreliable when it comes to the relationship between entire populations of living people and entire populations of people who have been dead for centuries.

    Most DNA ancestry tests like the ones offered by companies like 23andMe and Ancestry.com rely on large reference populations of living people with reliably documented ancestries. This means they are working with what is essentially the most reliable and detailed data available. We don’t have anything even remotely approaching that level of reliability or detail when it comes to the genetic composition of the population of ancient Greece.

    Replies: @Jack D

    If a geneticist looks at someone’s DNA and finds they have the MTHFR C677T mutation, they have no way of knowing whether the person carrying that gene inherited it from a person of Italian ancestry, a person of Chinese ancestry, a person of Mexican ancestry, or some other person from some other part of the world who just happened to have the mutation. This is the case with many genetic markers. In many cases, the marker itself is present in people from all different populations from all over the world, but it happens to be particularly common in people from a certain part of the world.

    This is true as far as it goes, but it is incomplete in a way that is highly (I assume intentionally) misleading. Sure, from the MTHFR C677T mutation or any other mutation ALONE, you can’t tell whether someone is Italian or Chinese. But that’s not what ancestry.com and the other DNA analysis companies do. They test for MULTIPLE markers (I’m not sure of the exact #). One or two mutations might not prove anything but if you have 20 or 50 mutations that are common in people of your ancestry, that indicates that you are a member of that group with an extremely high degree of accuracy. Is there maybe 1 person out of the billion in China who has the same 20 common mutations as an Italian and whom ancestry would peg wrong? Maybe, but 99.9% (with increasing accuracy over time) will be identified correctly.

    This is the usual leftist motte and bailey trick where you pretend that some rare edge case negates the entire general rule.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Jack D

    Sure, that's why I posted this. Lefty liberals, in their best edition, are not stupid; generally- what they say is not an outright lie.

    Just, what they usually do is telling only a fragment of truth. Half-truths work better than lies.

    , @res
    @Jack D

    For anyone interested in learning more about this, search for "Ancestry Informative Markers."
    For example, see this 2020 paper.
    How to choose sets of ancestry informative markers: A supervised feature selection approach
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497320300302
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335698715_How_to_choose_sets_of_ancestry_informative_markers_A_supervised_feature_selection_approach


    12 SNPs identified by AIMsetfinder suffice to classify all African, European, East-Asian, and South-Asian individuals in the 1000 Genomes project correctly.

     

    The DNA test companies look at much more than that (as you say). For example, FTDNA's Chromosome Painter will show both strands of the autosomal chromosomes with an indication of the source of each chunk.
  212. Most of the white guests on “Finding Your Roots” have only European DNA. However, there is a clear double standard when Gates finds some sub-Saharan African ancestry in Latinos as opposed to non-Hispanic whites. Gates happily welcomes people like Ty Burrell, Roseanne Cash, Clint Black, Bliss Broyard, Rebecca Hall, etc. into his “race” (Gates comes from the Mulatto Elite intelligentsia, who have long hoped to drag more superior white DNA into the “Negro race” to improve the inferior stock) but is very careful not to make a big deal about the black DNA in Marco Rubio, John Leguizamo and other Hispanics.

    The white-looking Puerto Rican actress Justina Machado was shown to have a coal black paternal grandfather, but Gates did not try to claim her for his race. Machado’s father had a large Afro, but his death certificate recorded him as “white” because it was a standard bureaucratic courtesy to record nearly all Hispanics as “white,” whether they looked white or not. Gates’ failure to claim Machado as “black,” is very interesting given that he has built his career on “outing” famous whites with some African ancestry and then claiming their achievements for his race.

  213. @AndrewR
    @Pop Warner

    I've interacted with enough Iranians to say their culture isn't as alien as you think. Most don't even like Islam.

    Replies: @Jack D

    You’re dealing with a biased sample. The Iranians who live in LA may not like Islam much – that’s why they are in LA. But the millions of Iranians who live in villages in the countryside, who you will never meet, like it plenty.

    What caused the Iranian Revolution in part is that the kind of Iranians that you know, who lived in Tehran before they lived in LA, had a low birth rate like all Westernized people, and the people in the countryside had a high birthrate, so after a while there were a lot more of the country types, enough to take over the country. You see the same dynamic in Afghanistan, Turkey, etc.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Jack D

    Please don't talk down to me.

    Btw, if you insist, it would be "whom you will never meet"

  214. @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    If a geneticist looks at someone’s DNA and finds they have the MTHFR C677T mutation, they have no way of knowing whether the person carrying that gene inherited it from a person of Italian ancestry, a person of Chinese ancestry, a person of Mexican ancestry, or some other person from some other part of the world who just happened to have the mutation. This is the case with many genetic markers. In many cases, the marker itself is present in people from all different populations from all over the world, but it happens to be particularly common in people from a certain part of the world.
     
    This is true as far as it goes, but it is incomplete in a way that is highly (I assume intentionally) misleading. Sure, from the MTHFR C677T mutation or any other mutation ALONE, you can't tell whether someone is Italian or Chinese. But that's not what ancestry.com and the other DNA analysis companies do. They test for MULTIPLE markers (I'm not sure of the exact #). One or two mutations might not prove anything but if you have 20 or 50 mutations that are common in people of your ancestry, that indicates that you are a member of that group with an extremely high degree of accuracy. Is there maybe 1 person out of the billion in China who has the same 20 common mutations as an Italian and whom ancestry would peg wrong? Maybe, but 99.9% (with increasing accuracy over time) will be identified correctly.

    This is the usual leftist motte and bailey trick where you pretend that some rare edge case negates the entire general rule.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @res

    Sure, that’s why I posted this. Lefty liberals, in their best edition, are not stupid; generally- what they say is not an outright lie.

    Just, what they usually do is telling only a fragment of truth. Half-truths work better than lies.

  215. @AnotherDad
    @Hypnotoad666


    I did 23 and me (mainly because they were advertising that their genomic sequencing could be used for health reasons). My ancestry came back 100% White Guy, with some B.S. allocation between German, English and Scandinavian. I have to admit it was somehow disappointing to get such a boring result.
     
    Boring ... but terrific! These are the people who created the modern world. Allow us to live lives of unparalleled comfort and knowledge.

    Only in the current minoritarian insanity could someone believe that was anything less than awesome.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Scandinavians have come up in the world. At one time in America, being Scandinavian was more or less in the same category as being Polish – it make you the butt of jokes about how stupid you were. Scandinavians (perhaps aside from Danes) were not thought to be among the people who created the modern world – they were like Slavs, a people on the periphery of modernity, not at its center.

    There is also a “what have you done lately?” issue. S. Koreans cannot be said to be among the people who created the modern world. Until at least the 1970s they were a more or less 3rd worldish group, maybe comparable to Vietnam today. Even N. Korea was richer than the South (at least according to untrustworthy government statistics). But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world. Whereas in the case of say Scotland and the north of England, the opposite is true to some extent – a once highly productive place has fallen into torpor. New cell phones come from Seoul, not Glasgow.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world.

    The future belongs to those who show up for it, and South Korea has some of the world's abidingly poor performance in this regard.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  216. @Wake Up
    Does anyone else have Black Fatigue ?

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Meretricious, @Mike Tre

    “Does anyone else have Black Fatigue ?”
    that’s obviously a rhetorical question

  217. @Art Deco
    @Muggles

    The interest in DNA and family history is grounded in everyone’s favorite subject: themselves.

    It isn't and it isn't.

    Replies: @Muggles

    Your statement isn’t much.

    Yes “science” is very interested in DNA but the commercialization of DNA analysis is all about people wanting to find their ancestral history. That is big business.

    As to “everyone’s favorite subject” it is a generalization, but arguably correct. You do know about mirrors, cosmetics, social media, et. al. ?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Muggles

    I know about mirrors, &c. That does not mean everyone's favorite subject is himself or that they research their pedigree for that reason either. The 23 and Me customer in my family is my brother, who is not the least bit self-referential in conversation.

  218. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Jack D


    Gehry was being specifically asked about about his DNA, not whether he was a practicing Jew.
     
    What's a practicing Jew? Are there “practicing” Whites and “practicing” Blacks? Your red herring aside (gah, filter fish!), are we not now in agreement?

    You ridiculed Gehry for him thinking his sentiments, and his self-identification beyond biology, has any bearing on whether he is an actual Jew or not. You approved of Gehry being identified as “98% Ashkenazi”—presumably regardless of whether or not he also identifies as a Lubavitcher or Buddhist or atheist or brony or “sort of international” or whatever.

    But Gehry made the same argument you previously made when you denied Marx’s Jewishness in 2020—but you’ve now taken the opposite position on the issue, essentially now mocking, in Gehry’s case, your own earlier bizarre ‘transubstantiation’ take.

    So who’s right? Frank Gehry and 2020 Jack D, or JIE and 2022 Jack D?

    Replies: @lavoisier

    If you are expecting a reply from Jack D that is in any way intellectually coherent with his previous assertions–good luck.

    Waiting for Godot comes to mind.

  219. @Almost Missouri
    @James N. Kennett

    Agree. Gates's swiveling hypocrisy is especially egregious because his show is a nonstop race-baiting fest, especially when he has black or Jewish guest on.

    If he really thinks race is just a social construct, yet has yet to act like it on his show.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @Robert Dolan, @Element59

    Gates is a certified “talented 10th” club member who has been over-promoted to positions of fame, power, influence, and a public “intellectual” precisely because he’s a competent “black” and openly embraces his “black” identity. Among a similar cohort of whites, Gates would be a mediocrity with some serious character flaws that would limit his advancements and promotions.

    I recall watching a Gates documentary series called “Africa’s Great Civilizations”. It was unapologetically pro-African (read: black African), to the point of almost rubbing it in your face. What was particularly off-putting was a scene of a beach on Zanzibar with Gates narrating in a contemptible tone the racist (to him) juxtaposition of “white” tourists sunbathing and being served by “blacks” (locals). It deeply irritated him to see whites being catered to by blacks in Africa of all places!! This guy is a thin-skinned uppity type who sees race first and foremost in any interaction. This is probably the exact hostile and uncooperative attitude he exhibited when he was simply being questioned by Cambridge police – which led to his arrest and the “Beer Summit”.

    While I’ve enjoyed some episodes of “Finding Your Roots”, the cringe-worthy episodes are always the ones where a white person of note is shown that an ancestor of theirs owned slaves and Gates feeds them this info in a manner to elicit a forced shocked and remorseful reaction. Almost equally cringe are episodes when a black person of note is presented with a well-documented slave ancestor and Gates serves that up to elicit a reaction of both ethnic pride and anger – which is always subtly anti-white.

    Gates is a skilled grifter who has benefitted and profited greatly from liberal white generosity and white pathological altruism, and he’s thoroughly ungrateful for it. I’ve always noticed his obvious white admixture and was hoping that one day he’d admit to just how “white” he is – not surprisingly he’s being cleverly disingenuous about it to maintain the grift.

    • Replies: @Lloyd1927
    @Element59

    Gates and his "Talented Tenth" or "Mulatto Elite" ilk LOVE European DNA and see it as a way to improve their "race." The real blacks (with little or any Euro DNA) are such a disappointment to them.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/01/21/686531998/historian-henry-louis-gates-jr-on-dna-testing-and-finding-his-own-roots

  220. @Jack D
    @AnotherDad

    Scandinavians have come up in the world. At one time in America, being Scandinavian was more or less in the same category as being Polish - it make you the butt of jokes about how stupid you were. Scandinavians (perhaps aside from Danes) were not thought to be among the people who created the modern world - they were like Slavs, a people on the periphery of modernity, not at its center.

    There is also a "what have you done lately?" issue. S. Koreans cannot be said to be among the people who created the modern world. Until at least the 1970s they were a more or less 3rd worldish group, maybe comparable to Vietnam today. Even N. Korea was richer than the South (at least according to untrustworthy government statistics). But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world. Whereas in the case of say Scotland and the north of England, the opposite is true to some extent - a once highly productive place has fallen into torpor. New cell phones come from Seoul, not Glasgow.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world.

    The future belongs to those who show up for it, and South Korea has some of the world’s abidingly poor performance in this regard.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Art Deco

    "But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world."

    More like, modifying and improving the present world. Koreans did not invent cell phones, they just built better ones. They didn't even dream of cell phones, or cinema, or mapping the genome; they just dreamed of getting rich off someone else's vision and imagination.

  221. @Muggles
    @Art Deco

    Your statement isn't much.

    Yes "science" is very interested in DNA but the commercialization of DNA analysis is all about people wanting to find their ancestral history. That is big business.

    As to "everyone's favorite subject" it is a generalization, but arguably correct. You do know about mirrors, cosmetics, social media, et. al. ?

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I know about mirrors, &c. That does not mean everyone’s favorite subject is himself or that they research their pedigree for that reason either. The 23 and Me customer in my family is my brother, who is not the least bit self-referential in conversation.

  222. @Wake Up
    Does anyone else have Black Fatigue ?

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Meretricious, @Mike Tre

    True story. I just got back from gym. I was using a power rack to do pullups then go right into strict press. There’s a negro who works out there who is all show and no go as far as weightlifting is concerned. Hulks around, slams weights around. Avoids using real compound lifts to conceal the fact that he’s not very strong. Does a lot of stupid, useless lifts. He comes up to me and smacks me on the arm and says (not asks): I need to do some squats, you can go over there to do pull ups. I explained calmly that I was going straight into my next lift right there. He said ok and then threw all his gear down right under the left side of the bar and stalked off, so I had to step around his crap to load and unload the bar. I made sure to take my sweet ass time after that.

    But yes, I have serious negro fatigue. It seems I can’t go a day without having to put up with their ignorant, entitled behavior.

  223. @Art Deco
    @Buffalo Joe

    Rudolph Giuliani writes his own material. So did Mario Cuomo.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Art, thank you, but some of the most memorable speeches uttered by many of the presidents, were written for them. JFK, for instance. Stay safe.

  224. @AceDeuce
    @eded

    By "clean" he meant his demeanor, his overall self-presentation. You say you're not American, so not sure how helpful this is but JFK was regarded similarly as the first "clean" Irish politiciam in America.

    Before him Irish pols were either little red nosed leprechaun looking men with hard to decipher accents, or big Tip O'Neill size fatasses with wrinkled suits sprinkled with cigar ashes and food stains. All of them were cheerfully and openly corrupt, drunk half the time, and sloppily sentimental to a fault. JFK was cool, well tailored and groomed, Harvard degree, spoke well, and was in command of his emotions.

    As much as I dislike the whole family, Mario Cuomo was the same thing for Italians. Not a mobster or an organ grinder.

    Niggrows, of course, are the worst--black politicians and preachers were/are walking jokes. Even Martin Loofah Kink was a bloviating bullshit artist with a sordid personal life. (Dying was a good career move.) His own people-other niggrow activists, referred to him behind his back as "De Lawd" for all his grandiose hot air.

    Obama, despite his weird facial features, is a "cool" niggrow with no rough edges. He's more scrawny than trim, but, with a well tailored suit on, he looks fine. His voice is good, although he's not a good speaker, but he does avoid the emotional incontinence of blacks, and has no niggrow accent-except his fake one used to pander.

    Replies: @bomag

    (Dying was a good career move.)

    Zinger of the fiscal quarter.

    Aging well is difficult for celebrities in the internet age; Blacks doubly so (OJ, Bill Cosby).

    I’m still hearing accolades for Tupac.

  225. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world.

    The future belongs to those who show up for it, and South Korea has some of the world's abidingly poor performance in this regard.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “But today it is safe to say that they are among the people creating the FUTURE world.”

    More like, modifying and improving the present world. Koreans did not invent cell phones, they just built better ones. They didn’t even dream of cell phones, or cinema, or mapping the genome; they just dreamed of getting rich off someone else’s vision and imagination.

  226. @Element59
    @Almost Missouri

    Gates is a certified "talented 10th" club member who has been over-promoted to positions of fame, power, influence, and a public "intellectual" precisely because he's a competent "black" and openly embraces his "black" identity. Among a similar cohort of whites, Gates would be a mediocrity with some serious character flaws that would limit his advancements and promotions.

    I recall watching a Gates documentary series called "Africa's Great Civilizations". It was unapologetically pro-African (read: black African), to the point of almost rubbing it in your face. What was particularly off-putting was a scene of a beach on Zanzibar with Gates narrating in a contemptible tone the racist (to him) juxtaposition of "white" tourists sunbathing and being served by "blacks" (locals). It deeply irritated him to see whites being catered to by blacks in Africa of all places!! This guy is a thin-skinned uppity type who sees race first and foremost in any interaction. This is probably the exact hostile and uncooperative attitude he exhibited when he was simply being questioned by Cambridge police - which led to his arrest and the "Beer Summit".

    While I've enjoyed some episodes of "Finding Your Roots", the cringe-worthy episodes are always the ones where a white person of note is shown that an ancestor of theirs owned slaves and Gates feeds them this info in a manner to elicit a forced shocked and remorseful reaction. Almost equally cringe are episodes when a black person of note is presented with a well-documented slave ancestor and Gates serves that up to elicit a reaction of both ethnic pride and anger - which is always subtly anti-white.

    Gates is a skilled grifter who has benefitted and profited greatly from liberal white generosity and white pathological altruism, and he's thoroughly ungrateful for it. I've always noticed his obvious white admixture and was hoping that one day he'd admit to just how "white" he is - not surprisingly he's being cleverly disingenuous about it to maintain the grift.

    Replies: @Lloyd1927

    Gates and his “Talented Tenth” or “Mulatto Elite” ilk LOVE European DNA and see it as a way to improve their “race.” The real blacks (with little or any Euro DNA) are such a disappointment to them.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/01/21/686531998/historian-henry-louis-gates-jr-on-dna-testing-and-finding-his-own-roots

  227. Obama actually did Sgt Crawley a favor by inviting him to the WH. The police then couldn’t openly trash his career. The episode burst many people’s illusions about the Magic Negro–his approval rating plummeted.

  228. res says:
    @Jack D
    @Bardon Kaldian


    If a geneticist looks at someone’s DNA and finds they have the MTHFR C677T mutation, they have no way of knowing whether the person carrying that gene inherited it from a person of Italian ancestry, a person of Chinese ancestry, a person of Mexican ancestry, or some other person from some other part of the world who just happened to have the mutation. This is the case with many genetic markers. In many cases, the marker itself is present in people from all different populations from all over the world, but it happens to be particularly common in people from a certain part of the world.
     
    This is true as far as it goes, but it is incomplete in a way that is highly (I assume intentionally) misleading. Sure, from the MTHFR C677T mutation or any other mutation ALONE, you can't tell whether someone is Italian or Chinese. But that's not what ancestry.com and the other DNA analysis companies do. They test for MULTIPLE markers (I'm not sure of the exact #). One or two mutations might not prove anything but if you have 20 or 50 mutations that are common in people of your ancestry, that indicates that you are a member of that group with an extremely high degree of accuracy. Is there maybe 1 person out of the billion in China who has the same 20 common mutations as an Italian and whom ancestry would peg wrong? Maybe, but 99.9% (with increasing accuracy over time) will be identified correctly.

    This is the usual leftist motte and bailey trick where you pretend that some rare edge case negates the entire general rule.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @res

    For anyone interested in learning more about this, search for “Ancestry Informative Markers.”
    For example, see this 2020 paper.
    How to choose sets of ancestry informative markers: A supervised feature selection approach
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497320300302
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335698715_How_to_choose_sets_of_ancestry_informative_markers_A_supervised_feature_selection_approach

    12 SNPs identified by AIMsetfinder suffice to classify all African, European, East-Asian, and South-Asian individuals in the 1000 Genomes project correctly.

    The DNA test companies look at much more than that (as you say). For example, FTDNA’s Chromosome Painter will show both strands of the autosomal chromosomes with an indication of the source of each chunk.

    • Thanks: Jack D
  229. @Jack D
    @AndrewR

    You're dealing with a biased sample. The Iranians who live in LA may not like Islam much - that's why they are in LA. But the millions of Iranians who live in villages in the countryside, who you will never meet, like it plenty.

    What caused the Iranian Revolution in part is that the kind of Iranians that you know, who lived in Tehran before they lived in LA, had a low birth rate like all Westernized people, and the people in the countryside had a high birthrate, so after a while there were a lot more of the country types, enough to take over the country. You see the same dynamic in Afghanistan, Turkey, etc.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Please don’t talk down to me.

    Btw, if you insist, it would be “whom you will never meet”

  230. So why isn’t Sonia Sotomayor called the first “black” woman on the U.S. Supreme Court? As a Puerto Rican, doesn’t she have the required “Negro blood”?

  231. @Anon
    OT: Has anyone noticed that Biden is running away to Delaware this weekend, when the trucker convoy is due to arrive in DC, and while the war in Ukraine is still going strong?

    Biden's a master at running away from a difficult situation and at avoiding responsibility.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/joe-biden-ignores-questions-reporters-prepares-leave-delaware-35th-time-presidency-video/

    Replies: @JMcG

    He’s home more weekends than not. I get the FAA Temporary Flight Restriction notices when he’s heading there. That must be where they change the embalming fluid.

  232. @FBIstats
    @Hypnotoad666

    Light eyed, blondish (people with light to medium brown hair are often called "blond" in the middle east) are not too unusual in the north of Iran, especially Azerbaijan. Many have features and general looks that are indistinguishable from European. That's a subjective impression so I won't estimate stats. As in many countries, you get different looks in different areas.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    As in many societies, it does seem like the more European-looking individuals are over-represented in the elites. Cause or Effect? Who knows. Kemel Ataturk, for example, had light hair and light green eyes. He could have passed for German or British, no problem.

  233. @Chrisnonymous
    @AndrewR

    It's funny--if someone puts on blackface, nobody thinks they are black, but if a woman puts on so much makeup and hair coloring, eyebrow plucking etc, that her features are largely obscured, she can get people to argue about her ethnicity.

    In reality, if you have completely secular acculturated Iranians in, e.g., your office, you still know--the question of "whiteness" aside--that they are a different ethnic group from your German, Scandinavian, English, Irish, French, Russian, Czech, etc (even your Italian and Greek) co-workers. On the other hand, you may not be able to differentiate the actual ethnic backgrounds or existence in difference of same of your German, Scandinavian, Irish, English, etc co-workers.

    The question of whether she would pass as white decades ago is actually a question about US race relations and not about "whiteness". In times before our current wokeness, you could basically get accepted in society if you acted normal and weren't black. Probably no WASP would be bringing her home to momma to get married, but would she get invited out to parties, make friends, work well with colleagues, etc? Yes. If that's what whiteness means, then whiteness is not about being white, and has nothing to do with whether someone is perceived as white racially and ethnically.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Donald A Thomson

    Iranians can be distinguished from Yank Whites? How the hell do you do that?

    Iranian women outside Iran don’t wear Iranian fashions. In Iran, they don’t wear Western fashions, so I suppose it’s easy there. In Queensland, it’d be easy to tell a 16 year old Iranian immigrant girl studying physics at High School from a Queenslander born here. She’d be the one who was horrified to discover that high school physics here excluded mathematics and was just womansplaining of the subject to try to get girls interested (physics at university requires remedial mathematics). In Iran, women become nuclear physicists as well as engineers and doctors. They have no comprehension of the strong Western feminist belief that females are stupid and lazy except in medical studies. It might have something to do with unisex education in Iran. In any case, Queensland women have something to learn from Iran. Copy winners, not losers.

    Iranian men are reluctant to wear ties but that’s common now in many countries. [email protected]

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Donald A Thomson

    "In Iran, they don’t wear Western fashions, so I suppose it’s easy there"

    Try again.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/women-of-iran-defy-mullahs-by-embracing-western-fashions

    , @AndrewR
    @Donald A Thomson

    Very conservative women wear chadors but in general Iranian women dress like women in any other modern country, with the exception of the loose fitting (and often beautiful) hijabs they are compelled to wear in public, and the lack of bikinis, shorts, miniskirts and skimpy blouses.

  234. @Corvinus
    @James N. Kennett

    "In one of his TV history series, Gates used the term “our people”"

    Mmmm, speaking about our people--whites...

    @Chris Mallory --> “I don’t care about Russia or Ukraine, a pox upon them both. Neither one is my people.”

    @J.Ross
    “The best thing white people ever did was English common law tradition enabling science and true modern civilization. That’s not only geographically far from Ukraine, it’s totally incompatible with Ukrainian or Russian mores...If the whitest person alive is a footsoldier for neocons, then he’s not white at all.”

    Do you agree or disagree with these sentiments? Why? Could both fine commenters be labeled, dare I say, engaging in "anti-white" rhetoric? Why? Would you ultimately characterize each person as being "your people"? Why?

    Furthermore, what is YOUR definition of "being white"? What metrics are involved? How do you propose convincing others that your version of whiteness is the standard for all other whites to follow?

    Serious questions here. Please respond.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    Do you agree or disagree with these sentiments? Why? Could both fine commenters be labeled, dare I say, engaging in “anti-white” rhetoric? Why? Would you ultimately characterize each person as being “your people”? Why?

    Furthermore, what is YOUR definition of “being white”? What metrics are involved? How do you propose convincing others that your version of whiteness is the standard for all other whites to follow?

    Serious questions here. Please respond.

    I was talking about the public square, in which all of us would be damned for opinions that we have expressed in comments on this site. In the rarefied world of the SPLC and ADL, we would be damned simply for knowing that unz.com exists.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @James N. Kennett

    So, you rather evade rather than engage. Your choice.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

  235. @Roger
    Gates stars in a recent NY Times video arguing that the murder of Trayvon Martin started the Black Lives Matter movement.
    https://youtu.be/C1kTEit6-qw

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Calvin Hobbes, @acementhead, @Art Deco

    “…the murder of Trayvon Martin…”

    Trayvon Martin was not murdered, his death was caused by completely and obviously justified self defence.

    The Trayvon Hoax is well worth watching. It is free to see(or used to be) at

    https://www.thetrayvonhoax.com/film/

  236. @James N. Kennett
    @Corvinus


    Do you agree or disagree with these sentiments? Why? Could both fine commenters be labeled, dare I say, engaging in “anti-white” rhetoric? Why? Would you ultimately characterize each person as being “your people”? Why?

    Furthermore, what is YOUR definition of “being white”? What metrics are involved? How do you propose convincing others that your version of whiteness is the standard for all other whites to follow?

    Serious questions here. Please respond.
     
    I was talking about the public square, in which all of us would be damned for opinions that we have expressed in comments on this site. In the rarefied world of the SPLC and ADL, we would be damned simply for knowing that unz.com exists.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    So, you rather evade rather than engage. Your choice.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    @Corvinus

    I think you are missing the point here.

    I suggested that it would be a career-limiting move for a white person to use the term "our people" to refer to his co-ethnics, as Gates has done.

    This viewpoint does not imply that I have a clear definition of who belongs to "my people". Nor do I expect to convince anyone that they should adopt any particular definitions. However, I disagree with the commenters who suggested that a white person ceases to be white if he agrees with neocons or engages in "anti-white rhetoric": this belief would amount to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. A person's race is a matter of who their ancestors were.

    There is no doubt that a white person would be excoriated for using ethnocentric terms in public. Is there any reason why African Americans, especially those of high intelligence in responsible positions, should be exempt from this rule?

  237. @Donald A Thomson
    @Chrisnonymous

    Iranians can be distinguished from Yank Whites? How the hell do you do that?

    Iranian women outside Iran don't wear Iranian fashions. In Iran, they don't wear Western fashions, so I suppose it's easy there. In Queensland, it'd be easy to tell a 16 year old Iranian immigrant girl studying physics at High School from a Queenslander born here. She'd be the one who was horrified to discover that high school physics here excluded mathematics and was just womansplaining of the subject to try to get girls interested (physics at university requires remedial mathematics). In Iran, women become nuclear physicists as well as engineers and doctors. They have no comprehension of the strong Western feminist belief that females are stupid and lazy except in medical studies. It might have something to do with unisex education in Iran. In any case, Queensland women have something to learn from Iran. Copy winners, not losers.

    Iranian men are reluctant to wear ties but that's common now in many countries. [email protected]

    Replies: @Corvinus, @AndrewR

    “In Iran, they don’t wear Western fashions, so I suppose it’s easy there”

    Try again.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/women-of-iran-defy-mullahs-by-embracing-western-fashions

  238. @Donald A Thomson
    @Chrisnonymous

    Iranians can be distinguished from Yank Whites? How the hell do you do that?

    Iranian women outside Iran don't wear Iranian fashions. In Iran, they don't wear Western fashions, so I suppose it's easy there. In Queensland, it'd be easy to tell a 16 year old Iranian immigrant girl studying physics at High School from a Queenslander born here. She'd be the one who was horrified to discover that high school physics here excluded mathematics and was just womansplaining of the subject to try to get girls interested (physics at university requires remedial mathematics). In Iran, women become nuclear physicists as well as engineers and doctors. They have no comprehension of the strong Western feminist belief that females are stupid and lazy except in medical studies. It might have something to do with unisex education in Iran. In any case, Queensland women have something to learn from Iran. Copy winners, not losers.

    Iranian men are reluctant to wear ties but that's common now in many countries. [email protected]

    Replies: @Corvinus, @AndrewR

    Very conservative women wear chadors but in general Iranian women dress like women in any other modern country, with the exception of the loose fitting (and often beautiful) hijabs they are compelled to wear in public, and the lack of bikinis, shorts, miniskirts and skimpy blouses.

  239. @Roger
    Gates stars in a recent NY Times video arguing that the murder of Trayvon Martin started the Black Lives Matter movement.
    https://youtu.be/C1kTEit6-qw

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Calvin Hobbes, @acementhead, @Art Deco

    In a just world, that would tank Gates’ reputation. He either runs his mouth knowing nothing of the case or he begins with the assumption that obstreperous black youths have a franchise to beat up people who annoy them, and us peasants are getting above ourselves if we avail ourselves of our antique right of self-defense.

    And you can see the assumptions. Gates fancies that black advancement comes from protest movements which induce politicians to grant patronage (e.g. a franchise to beat people up), rather than from people in their mundane lives acquiring salable skills and personal discipline.

  240. @Jus' Sayin'...
    I've learned to expect the BIG LIE when our power elite and ruling class change the words used to describe reality. The substitution of "ancestry" for "race" is one example.

    (BTW, if one asks oneself the rather obvious question, "Why not use the scientifically precise term 'clade'?", the answer is obvious that it immediately leads one back to the dangerous concepts of "sub-species and from thence to "race".)

    OT warning: When "The Ukraine" became "Ukraine" a little less than a decade ago, I suspected that a new plot by the US hegemon was afoot. When "Kiev" suddenly became "Keev" within the last two weeks, I realized that every recent word regarding the Russian-Ukrainian War, emanating from the MSM and "official" hegemon sources, was a lie, including "a", "an", and "the".

    Replies: @Stealth

    Kind of like how Qatar became “Gutter” all of a sudden back during the war on terror.

  241. @Corvinus
    @James N. Kennett

    So, you rather evade rather than engage. Your choice.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    I think you are missing the point here.

    I suggested that it would be a career-limiting move for a white person to use the term “our people” to refer to his co-ethnics, as Gates has done.

    This viewpoint does not imply that I have a clear definition of who belongs to “my people”. Nor do I expect to convince anyone that they should adopt any particular definitions. However, I disagree with the commenters who suggested that a white person ceases to be white if he agrees with neocons or engages in “anti-white rhetoric”: this belief would amount to the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. A person’s race is a matter of who their ancestors were.

    There is no doubt that a white person would be excoriated for using ethnocentric terms in public. Is there any reason why African Americans, especially those of high intelligence in responsible positions, should be exempt from this rule?

  242. @Clyde
    Wikipedia is run by leftists. When you look at Wikipedia biographies, they always get into race and ethnicity, when the information is available. Example, I see a mixed race European soccer player. I am curious where in Africa his parents or parent is from. A former French or British colony? Was it the mother or father who is black? Another example: A famous physicist from WW2. Was he Jewish, and from where in Europe?

    The same is going on with Gates' project. People want to know, or his show would not be popular. Gates doth protest too much, spin away HLG, to amuse everyone else on this planet.

    Replies: @anon

    True, just take a look at the list of the wikipedia admins

    https://pastebin.com/Y27Gdsq4

    and you’ll see they are all leftists.

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