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Happy vs. Unhappy Families in Women's Athletics
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From the New York Times news section:

Equity in Sports Has Focused on Gender, Not Race. So Gaps Persist.

Title IX, over 50 years, has heavily benefited white women over women of color. That’s partly because race has never been part of the law.

By Alanis Thames
June 30, 2022

… While Black women are certainly beneficiaries of Title IX, which prohibited sex-based discrimination in educational settings, the door it opened for sports participation has disproportionately helped white women. Black female athletes remain generally underrepresented in most programs, particularly in sports like tennis, swimming and soccer.

My guess is that the real story is how under-represented Hispanic (especially Mexican-American) women are in college sports and how over-represented Asians girls are, especially in expensive sports like golf. But it’s 2022 so the NYT can only focus on black vs. white.

Excuse me, Black vs. white.

Another thing to keep in mind about female sports is how much of a test they are of Happy Families. Nabokov’s Ada begins, contra Tolstoy’s Anna Karenina:

“All happy families are more or less dissimilar, all unhappy ones are more or less alike”

Happy families where dad is around tend to have niche interests that are helpful in getting them college athletic scholarships in less competitive sports, while unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)

The upscale Winter Olympics continue to attract good ratings among the heavily-targeted maternal demographic who do a disproportionate amount of shopping because it’s a fortnight-long celebration of Happy Families.

 
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  1. Another who attacks transphobic people, more specifically women. “They” are “binary” for now.
    https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-iceland-choking-germany-harassment-1235307056/

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon

    How one can be "nonbinary" in Iceland, with three more genders than English has, and where one's sex is built into one's very surname patronym, is a mystery. But they're giving it their best:


    Being Nonbinary: In Iceland And Everywhere

    Replies: @AndrewR

  2. I’m surprised they make up 7% of cross-country, so basically they are massively over-represented in the schools that do cross-country.

    But, as always, crl-f ‘class’ nowhere to be found.

    Seriously, do a breakout by the socio-economic background and then by race and see if, controlling for class, you see any racial disparities. You’d probably find that controlling for class that blacks are over-represented in almost all sports.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Guest007
    @Altai

    Except Basketball and track. Many of the women basketball players grew up in areas where virtually all blacks were expected to play basketball. Track lends itself to easy identification of talent due to sprinting.

  3. The upscale Winter Olympics continue to attract good ratings among the heavily-targeted maternal demographic who do a disproportionate amount of shopping because it’s a fortnight-long celebration of Happy Families.

    I read “shopping” and with “winter” and “celebration” was thinking the reference was to Christmas.

    But it strikes me that that is what Christmas is too. Sure religiously, a Christian feast of God’s love for us. But effectively and secularly, a celebration of happy families.

    My best experience–and now best memories–are of family life with the kids. #1 is our family vacations together. But #2 is spending the holidays together–with the lead far and away being Christmas.

  4. I read this article when it first came out and obviously it doesn’t really prove its point – black women are 11% of college athletes, which is pretty close to their share of female college students overall. What the author is probably upset about is that they are underrepresented in pretty girl sports like tennis, soccer, golf, etc.

    But as Steve notes, these are sports where dads likely played a huge role (and economics of course) and that isn’t a strong suit of the modern black household. I also think a big reason a lot of girls from stable households end up in stuff like golf and tennis is because parents know they will be able to play with their daughters for fun and bonding.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Arclight

    Does this include all divisions of the NCAA? It is hard to believe blacks are only 30% of the players in women's DI college basketball. Perhaps that is what is happening here, small colleges, particularly in flyover states aren't recruiting black girls to play sports there. I wonder what the interest level would even be among black girls for playing DII sports at a mostly white college in flyover country.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @EddieSpaghetti, @PSR

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Arclight

    Yep. As Arclight notes, an honest comparison would be blacks in various sports vs. their percentage of the total student body. But that wouldn't support the narrative.

    Also, it's just a dumb premise to assume that not being on a woman's sports team is somehow bad for blacks. There are only 24 hours in a day. If a student decides not to invest hundreds of unpaid hours into a sports team with no possible professional pay off, those extra hours will go into studying, other organizations, or something. Reinvesting black girl's limited time in sports is hardly a recipe for improving their income or academic success.

    But hey, if the NYT sees a real or imagined "disparity," the narrative can only interpret it one way -- as yet another case of systemic racism.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Buffalo Joe

  5. Negress participation in softball is about what I would expect, knowing more about it than any of the other sports.

  6. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads…

    …and, often, no brothers into whom for dad to channel his energies.

    • Agree: SafeNow
  7. Flight from white: celebrity chef/You Tube personality Adrienne Cheatham identifies as part of the black community. She went to an HBCU, Florida A&M, has promoted chef careers for black women, and runs monthly dinner parties, usually in Harlem, that are based on black traditions. I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose. If anything, she looks slightly Asian.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @prosa123


    I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose.
     
    She's learned a lot from her family's firm.


    https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--GIBoRVm---/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_954,w_954/co_000000,e_outline:48/co_000000,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/t_watermark_lock/c_limit,f_auto,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1526409534/production/designs/2689563_0.jpg

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @epebble
    @prosa123

    she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community

    And then it would be called cheating ( One-drop rule ) and she would be given cute nicknames like Oreo, Aunt Thomasina etc.,

  8. @Anon
    Another who attacks transphobic people, more specifically women. “They” are “binary” for now.
    https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-iceland-choking-germany-harassment-1235307056/

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    How one can be “nonbinary” in Iceland, with three more genders than English has, and where one’s sex is built into one’s very surname patronym, is a mystery. But they’re giving it their best:

    Being Nonbinary: In Iceland And Everywhere

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Reg Cæsar

    Speaking of surnames, what if a "non-binary" man and a "non-binary" woman have a kid together in our culture? Does the sperm-producing parent get called "dad/father"? Does the kid get "his" name?

    All of this stuff seems like the worst of individualism and transhumanism combined. The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity.

    As for the main post, idk if Mexicans are underrepresented on tennis teams or not but my longest-lasting girlfriend grew up in a very Mexican, working class family in Cali and got a full ride scholarship to play tennis at a university in West Virginia of all places.

  9. @prosa123
    Flight from white: celebrity chef/You Tube personality Adrienne Cheatham identifies as part of the black community. She went to an HBCU, Florida A&M, has promoted chef careers for black women, and runs monthly dinner parties, usually in Harlem, that are based on black traditions. I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose. If anything, she looks slightly Asian.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH66lyK_er0

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @epebble

    I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose.

    She’s learned a lot from her family’s firm.

    • Agree: PaceLaw
    • LOL: kaganovitch, Kylie
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Hey, isn't that JackD's firm?

  10. @prosa123
    Flight from white: celebrity chef/You Tube personality Adrienne Cheatham identifies as part of the black community. She went to an HBCU, Florida A&M, has promoted chef careers for black women, and runs monthly dinner parties, usually in Harlem, that are based on black traditions. I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose. If anything, she looks slightly Asian.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH66lyK_er0

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @epebble

    she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community

    And then it would be called cheating ( One-drop rule ) and she would be given cute nicknames like Oreo, Aunt Thomasina etc.,

  11. @Arclight
    I read this article when it first came out and obviously it doesn't really prove its point - black women are 11% of college athletes, which is pretty close to their share of female college students overall. What the author is probably upset about is that they are underrepresented in pretty girl sports like tennis, soccer, golf, etc.

    But as Steve notes, these are sports where dads likely played a huge role (and economics of course) and that isn't a strong suit of the modern black household. I also think a big reason a lot of girls from stable households end up in stuff like golf and tennis is because parents know they will be able to play with their daughters for fun and bonding.

    Replies: @Barnard, @Hypnotoad666

    Does this include all divisions of the NCAA? It is hard to believe blacks are only 30% of the players in women’s DI college basketball. Perhaps that is what is happening here, small colleges, particularly in flyover states aren’t recruiting black girls to play sports there. I wonder what the interest level would even be among black girls for playing DII sports at a mostly white college in flyover country.

    • Replies: @Hannah Katz
    @Barnard

    Good point. Anyone have the chart for men in college sports?

    , @EddieSpaghetti
    @Barnard

    As best I can tell, the data deals with the number of female athletes in all 3 NCAA divisions. In particular, this data does not appear to take into account in any way shape or form whether these athletes have athletic scholarships or not. So the question of who is getting the athletic scholarship money does not appear to be addressed here.

    , @PSR
    @Barnard

    I suspect the pool of potential recruits is pretty skimpy.

  12. Fathers are important, but if we’re not just talking sports, I’d say they are more important for the boys than for the girls. For black kids, it’s what, 25% or so with Dads around? (Pathetic.) It’s the following I don’t agree with at all, though:

    … while unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    Why sports to begin with? Lots of girls couldn’t give a dang other than the fact that (as you’ve written) their Dads might not have boys, so they push the sports, and they can bond with their daughters in this realm. When I was in high school, I don’t think it was 1/4 of the girls that played sports. They were girls, for crying out loud, and they did girl activities.

    There was the cheerleading which is sports-like – more so nowadays – but then that could lead one to “the pole” more easily than the yearbook committee and that. (If one couldn’t make it onto the squad, well, the only strip joint she might end up at is one of those that have the big goons forcing one to buy a small pitcher for 8 bucks. I date myself here.)

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I always thought it was ironic that Elizabeth Berkley is known for two roles - the feminist on Saved by the Bell and the stripper in Showgirls.

    High school:

    https://i.ibb.co/zrbnH34/C4296241-A019-426-E-A314-E62-CCF93-D925.jpg

    A few years after high school:

    https://i.ibb.co/wsQ288X/044-AE208-606-E-4686-81-BC-67-F5-F03344-FC.webp

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Truth

  13. I agree with the main point here though, which, the way I take it, is that Alanis Thames can bitch with the best of them, better than you*, it’s the way that she moves, oh, oh…

    If bitching were made an official NCAA sport, I know there would be a lot more black woman participation. Honestly, I don’t give a rat’s ass about any of this, I just got this Elton John song in my head that I’m gonna’ pass on here:

    I think Dixie Lily off this same album is an even better song.

    .

    * Considering what Altai and Archlight wrote, and I’m sure most of us can figure from the set of numbers, when there’s nothing to bitch about, she can still come through.

  14. I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose.

    And she will. If being white becomes the sine qua non again.

    A really daring thought might be that “nonwhite” got fashionable and even profitable about 50 years back and might be reaching the sell-by date.

    What sort of “event” that actually does change everything, would it take for the current religion of Diversity to collapse altogether? I know, it would have to be so staggering that our entire culture would have no choice but to ditch multiculturalism in favor of a return to Euro-centralism as total as it was a century ago?

    A good sci-fi writer might have some ideas for that.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Franz

    I'm no science-fiction writer, Franz, but I am betting my ass(ets) on what will stop the Dieversity promotion and pretty much all the rest of the stupidity. That would be the financial SHTF times that are coming. I don't think it'll be one specific event. When things get real, the stupid stops.

    Replies: @sayless, @Franz

  15. So they won’t rest until 13% of ice hockey players are black … and, of course, until black women in basketball drop from 30% to 13%, right? Right?

  16. I’m most interested in the 1% of “other” who participate in outdoor track but not indoor.

    All I can think of – seriously – are Asian javelin throwers who are too skinny to participate in the indoor shot put or weight throw (i.e. indoor hammer). Most discus throwers will still do one of the indoor throws and every other event besides discus or javelin has an indoor equivalent.

    I actually knew an Asian javelin thrower on our track team in college, but he was a dude.

  17. In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

    This is certainly possible but my guess is that high level athletes in “real” sports probably have, on average, much better paternal participation than the norm for their respective demographic cohorts.

    The days of the streetballing son of a single mother or tough as nails kid from a mining town in Manitoba with an abusive, alcoholic father making it big are dwindling and now probably over for someone born today.

  18. @Achmed E. Newman
    Fathers are important, but if we're not just talking sports, I'd say they are more important for the boys than for the girls. For black kids, it's what, 25% or so with Dads around? (Pathetic.) It's the following I don't agree with at all, though:

    ... while unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.
     
    Why sports to begin with? Lots of girls couldn't give a dang other than the fact that (as you've written) their Dads might not have boys, so they push the sports, and they can bond with their daughters in this realm. When I was in high school, I don't think it was 1/4 of the girls that played sports. They were girls, for crying out loud, and they did girl activities.

    There was the cheerleading which is sports-like - more so nowadays - but then that could lead one to "the pole" more easily than the yearbook committee and that. (If one couldn't make it onto the squad, well, the only strip joint she might end up at is one of those that have the big goons forcing one to buy a small pitcher for 8 bucks. I date myself here.)

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    I always thought it was ironic that Elizabeth Berkley is known for two roles – the feminist on Saved by the Bell and the stripper in Showgirls.

    High school:

    A few years after high school:

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Stan Adams

    Haha, never seen either, Stan. I do know that there are lots of strip bars all up and down Florida's east coast. I've read about this ...

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    , @Truth
    @Stan Adams

    Nice Adams Apple in the first pic.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  19. E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

    I’m guessing that he has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days BEFORE LeBron’s birth.

    But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)

    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there’s more \$ in it but she wasn’t good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn’t have to pay for a horse – THAT is really expensive.

    I just checked this year’s MIT women’s fencing team and the count is:

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Jack D

    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there’s more $ in it but she wasn’t good at tennis.

    That's the way it should be. She played a sport she liked and was good at. As for money, there isn't much in tennis either unless one is really skilled.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls.
     
    For some reason, Minnesota's fencing community was concentrated in Saint Anthony Park, the neighborhood housing the state ag school, and the adjacent tiny suburb of Lauderdale. (Very close to where Philando Castile got shot.) It must be a friend-recruits-friend sort of thing.

    A fencing ticket was my best investment at the 1992 Olympics. It was brutally hot and muggy in Barça that week, and it offered eight hours of access to air conditioning. The only other place that cool (literally) was El Corte Ingles, a department store which probably didn't want you hanging around that long. (If I ever saw a "bubbler" anywhere on the Continent, it would have been there, too.)

    Synchronized swimming was the worst. The arena was essentially a solar thermal collector. All the men in the (metal) seats had their shirts off. If it were France or Germany rather than Spain, the women would have as well.

    Also, I arrived two hours late for a baseball game. That turned out to be feature, not bug. They were only into the fourth inning. At 98°F!

    I wish I had thought of attending the kayaking. That was almost in Andorra, and quite comfortable, I was told.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    , @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jack D


    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there’s more $ in it but she wasn’t good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn’t have to pay for a horse – THAT is really expensive.
     
    Obscure, unpopular sports with lots of purpose-specific gear and no spectator interest seem to be a backdoor for University admissions for the unimpressive children of the wealthy. The "Varsity Blues" investigation sort of laid that bare.

    These should probably be demoted to club affairs which self-fund through bake sales and donations rather than being actual NCAA scholarship sports which get positive consideration in admissions. I just really don't see the point of extravagantly funding rarefied competition in niche sports for four years the main appeal of which is that parents can pay for lessons and equipment from toddler age more or less solely in order to scholarship hunt and resume build. Amateur sports should be that - played for the love of the sport. Of course, Title IX makes this all but impossible. The Olympics (which perhaps could have thinly justified this during the Cold War era) are a dead letter now anyway.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    , @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).
     
    The traditional powerhouses in fencing are Italy, France, and Hungary.* Russia, Germany, China, and South Korea also do well (usually top ten).

    *Hungarian Jews actually have a storied history in early Olympic fencing: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/community/articles/when-jews-ruled-the-fencing-world

    Fencing is extremely popular with young Asian students in my area. There are several schools with Olympic-level coaching.
    , @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    What's the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Ron Mexico, @Another Canadian, @Jack D, @Dmon

    , @SFG
    @Jack D

    I’ve heard fencing is one of the brainier sports and MIT naturally had one of the better teams.

    Whether the geek appeal is due to the demands of the sport or Gary Gygax and J.R.R. Tolkien I have no idea.

  20. You missed badminton. In my high school days, this was dominated by Hispanic and Asian girls.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @mousey

    Mousey, Badminton a big sport in China. Perhaps some of the culture comes over here. You wrote "Asian", but did you mean Oriental, or specifically Chinese?

    I gotta say, rather than sports with balls, that badminton shuttlecock* is really unique, as it does things a ball can't do. That's the same with the Frisbee™, excuse me "disk", as used in Frisbee Golf and Ultimate Frisbee, making that latter sport so much cooler than soccer. Oh, and you can use your God-given hands and arms, too!

    .

    * Called just the "shuttle" or the "birdie", though I swear I remember it called the "fly" way back the few times I played the game.

    Replies: @prosa123

  21. I think we should stop with the “if they don’t play sports they’ll be on the pole”

    I was a D1 athlete At a Big Ten University, on scholarship. I mingled with a lot of the girl athletes on scholarships as well, trust me, if they didn’t have an athletic scholarship, nobody would have been paying most of them to grind on a pole… it’s just unrealistic. More likely they’d have had a job as a waitress.

    I only knew one girl from high school that ended up “on the pole” and the only athletic bone in her body belonged to whatever guy took her home that night.

    Have you seen women that play softball? Odds of them being strippers are practically zero

  22. ON/off topic:

    I ran across this by accident, but this is a video from HBO’s Rodney Dangerfield’s 75th Birthday Special. The team used as extras was the Pierce College Brahmans football team from Woodland Hills, CA. The head coach and all the players were part of the actual team. The tall blond guy number 11 was our QB and he was banging the head coach’s daughter who was an absolute brickhouse. I am the second defensive player growling with my face right in the camera. There’s a couple more shots of me engaged with a blocker after the ball is snapped. The field is carved out of the side of a hill, and was used in the Chris Farley film Blacksheep as well.

    It was filmed at night in the early months of 1997 IIRC, and the SFV is cold at night. Rodney was under the weather and kept a heated blanket around him in between shots. A double was used for all the running shots where his face can’t be seen. The second to last shot, where he is filmed from the front breaking away from the defenders, he is actually sitting on a chair that was being run down a track. Rodney talked to us for a few minutes and seemed like a genuinely nice guy, but he being older and a bit ill it was clear he was miserable during the shoot. The director was hyper and stressed, and very annoying. The whole thing took less than 2 hours.

    The royalty checks are still flowing in, lemmetellya.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    Mark Harmon played for Pierce JC in 1970-1971. In his first game for UCLA as wishbone QB in 1972 he beat #1 ranked Nebraska with 1972 Heisman winner Johnnie Rodgers, a team that won the "game of the century" 35-31 over Oklahoma the previous November.

  23. Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim. Hard to participate at the collegiate level when you don’t have a Guppy or Goldfish swim card. For the second year in a row Buffalo will leave nine public pools closed. The reason, no life guards. Kids from the suburb are not about to work the inner city pools and tell some hyper black child to calm down, or don’t run or no diving from the side of the pool. They have see World Star videos. Hell, Ta Nehisi Coates wrote a book because a white woman had the temerity to move his son from the foot of an escalator where he was blocking access. Look at the sports blacks girls don’t participate in…cross country, shoes and shorts…soccer, shin guards,shoes and shorts and coaches. Truth is, not alot of White girls are competitive in tennis or golf. Girls scholastic ice hockey is big in WNY, and the area sends a fair share of girls to D-I and D-II college programs, but the HS teams locally are usually made up of girls from three or four schools. Not enough participation for one HS to field a team.Exception the local private prep school.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Buffalo Joe


    Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim
     
    One of the defining characteristics of the African Rockfish is the tendency to drown. Just ask Joe Delaney who played for the Kansas City Chiefs 1981-82.

    Kids from the suburb are not about to work the inner city pools and tell some hyper black child to calm down, or don’t run or no diving from the side of the pool.
     
    We don't mind trying to impose discipline on the young Rockfish; the issue is that when they start to chimp out we know we won't get backed up.

    Replies: @Danindc

    , @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Buffalo Joe


    Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim.
     
    Chlorinated pool water is to black women's hair what Kryptonite is to Superman.

    There was a reason, recall, that a young Master Biden insisted that Corn Pop wear a rubber swimming cap. Would you want to be responsible for your local public pool's equivalent of the Valdez spill?
  24. As I posted before, when I was a swimmer back in the day, alas way back, swim practice was one hour long. That’s high school, and college (was not NCAA div 1). The other sports were about the same. That made for happy families. I think most moms and dads would be happy with this today. The athletes would be happy too, although many would never admit it.

  25. anon[294] • Disclaimer says:

    Winter sports definitely attract wealthier families because they are very expensive. Per WSJ it costs upwards of \$500k to train an alpine skier from age 8 to 18 when they are good enough to turn pro. Each skier needs multiple pairs of skis per year. Mikaela Shiffrin brought 60 pairs of skis to the Beijing Olympics with her. Each ski suit that the Olympic skiers wear costs \$1,000, and they can only be used once. Also season passes for ski resorts are expensive, over \$1k per season for a half way decent one, and skiers often chase snow year round which means they have to train in Chile or New Zealand in the summer, and Europe all fall and winter because that’s where all the competitions are.

    Winter Olympics also have far fewer athletes, around 2,500, compared to 10,000 in the Summer Games. Summer sports are in general much cheaper and much more accessible since you don’t need snow.

    Many top level female tennis players grew up trained by their dads. I would assume the same is true for female golfers and skiers.

  26. Well, I know one thing; that NYT bar graph is racist. The entries from Tennis to Ice Hockey require addition and subtraction to compute the black percentage.

  27. @Jack D

    E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

     

    I'm guessing that he has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days BEFORE LeBron's birth.

    But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)
     
    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there's more $ in it but she wasn't good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn't have to pay for a horse - THAT is really expensive.

    I just checked this year's MIT women's fencing team and the count is:

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    Replies: @prosa123, @Reg Cæsar, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Twinkie, @Steve Sailer, @SFG

    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there’s more \$ in it but she wasn’t good at tennis.

    That’s the way it should be. She played a sport she liked and was good at. As for money, there isn’t much in tennis either unless one is really skilled.

  28. @Buffalo Joe
    Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim. Hard to participate at the collegiate level when you don't have a Guppy or Goldfish swim card. For the second year in a row Buffalo will leave nine public pools closed. The reason, no life guards. Kids from the suburb are not about to work the inner city pools and tell some hyper black child to calm down, or don't run or no diving from the side of the pool. They have see World Star videos. Hell, Ta Nehisi Coates wrote a book because a white woman had the temerity to move his son from the foot of an escalator where he was blocking access. Look at the sports blacks girls don't participate in...cross country, shoes and shorts...soccer, shin guards,shoes and shorts and coaches. Truth is, not alot of White girls are competitive in tennis or golf. Girls scholastic ice hockey is big in WNY, and the area sends a fair share of girls to D-I and D-II college programs, but the HS teams locally are usually made up of girls from three or four schools. Not enough participation for one HS to field a team.Exception the local private prep school.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim

    One of the defining characteristics of the African Rockfish is the tendency to drown. Just ask Joe Delaney who played for the Kansas City Chiefs 1981-82.

    Kids from the suburb are not about to work the inner city pools and tell some hyper black child to calm down, or don’t run or no diving from the side of the pool.

    We don’t mind trying to impose discipline on the young Rockfish; the issue is that when they start to chimp out we know we won’t get backed up.

    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @Danindc
    @ScarletNumber

    Joe Delaney knew he couldn’t swim and jumped into that pond to save those kids anyway.

  29. @Reg Cæsar
    @prosa123


    I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose.
     
    She's learned a lot from her family's firm.


    https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--GIBoRVm---/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_954,w_954/co_000000,e_outline:48/co_000000,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:48/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:48/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/t_watermark_lock/c_limit,f_auto,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1526409534/production/designs/2689563_0.jpg

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Hey, isn’t that JackD’s firm?

  30. @Arclight
    I read this article when it first came out and obviously it doesn't really prove its point - black women are 11% of college athletes, which is pretty close to their share of female college students overall. What the author is probably upset about is that they are underrepresented in pretty girl sports like tennis, soccer, golf, etc.

    But as Steve notes, these are sports where dads likely played a huge role (and economics of course) and that isn't a strong suit of the modern black household. I also think a big reason a lot of girls from stable households end up in stuff like golf and tennis is because parents know they will be able to play with their daughters for fun and bonding.

    Replies: @Barnard, @Hypnotoad666

    Yep. As Arclight notes, an honest comparison would be blacks in various sports vs. their percentage of the total student body. But that wouldn’t support the narrative.

    Also, it’s just a dumb premise to assume that not being on a woman’s sports team is somehow bad for blacks. There are only 24 hours in a day. If a student decides not to invest hundreds of unpaid hours into a sports team with no possible professional pay off, those extra hours will go into studying, other organizations, or something. Reinvesting black girl’s limited time in sports is hardly a recipe for improving their income or academic success.

    But hey, if the NYT sees a real or imagined “disparity,” the narrative can only interpret it one way — as yet another case of systemic racism.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    @Hypnotoad666

    Great point - athletics take away from study time, and black women are not high performers in terms of major pursued, graduation rates, etc. On the flipside most athletes get some kind of scholarship and that could be part of the subtext of this column - essentially they want college to be cheaper for more black women.

    Anyway, when I was in college I was friends with a woman who was on our school's basketball team (D1) and it was a major time suck, although it also imposed structure which can be helpful as well. This particular woman was a pretty dutiful type though, and the social life aspect of college never got in the way of her academic or sporting obligations.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Hypnotoad666

    Hypno, great comment.

  31. they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like.

    I thought ball-stick sports appealed to lesbians. That was one of the first iSteve things I read years ago.

  32. I’m sure Korean families are ecstatic lately. The LPGA is all but unwatchable in my opinion as it’s dominated by that contingent – many of which can speak little, if any English. Sure, there are a few American and European gals who are competitive on occasion, but there are so many lees and gees and parks, that they’re actually numbering them. A total joke, but what isn’t these days?

  33. @Jack D

    E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

     

    I'm guessing that he has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days BEFORE LeBron's birth.

    But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)
     
    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there's more $ in it but she wasn't good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn't have to pay for a horse - THAT is really expensive.

    I just checked this year's MIT women's fencing team and the count is:

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    Replies: @prosa123, @Reg Cæsar, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Twinkie, @Steve Sailer, @SFG

    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls.

    For some reason, Minnesota’s fencing community was concentrated in Saint Anthony Park, the neighborhood housing the state ag school, and the adjacent tiny suburb of Lauderdale. (Very close to where Philando Castile got shot.) It must be a friend-recruits-friend sort of thing.

    A fencing ticket was my best investment at the 1992 Olympics. It was brutally hot and muggy in Barça that week, and it offered eight hours of access to air conditioning. The only other place that cool (literally) was El Corte Ingles, a department store which probably didn’t want you hanging around that long. (If I ever saw a “bubbler” anywhere on the Continent, it would have been there, too.)

    Synchronized swimming was the worst. The arena was essentially a solar thermal collector. All the men in the (metal) seats had their shirts off. If it were France or Germany rather than Spain, the women would have as well.

    Also, I arrived two hours late for a baseball game. That turned out to be feature, not bug. They were only into the fourth inning. At 98°F!

    I wish I had thought of attending the kayaking. That was almost in Andorra, and quite comfortable, I was told.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Reg Cæsar

    The father of an American swimmer died of a heart attack during the opening ceremonies. One wonders whether the heat had anything to do with it:
    https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/07/26/Father-of-US-swimmer-dies-at-Olympics/3518712123200/

    The son marched with his fellow athletes oblivious to the fact that his dad was literally dying in the stands. His mother and sisters chose not to tell him to avoid spoiling the ceremonies he'd been working toward attending for so many years. He was not informed of the tragedy until the next morning.

    He competed as scheduled a few days later. He finished a disappointing sixth.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  34. OT — Deese nuts.

  35. @Buffalo Joe
    Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim. Hard to participate at the collegiate level when you don't have a Guppy or Goldfish swim card. For the second year in a row Buffalo will leave nine public pools closed. The reason, no life guards. Kids from the suburb are not about to work the inner city pools and tell some hyper black child to calm down, or don't run or no diving from the side of the pool. They have see World Star videos. Hell, Ta Nehisi Coates wrote a book because a white woman had the temerity to move his son from the foot of an escalator where he was blocking access. Look at the sports blacks girls don't participate in...cross country, shoes and shorts...soccer, shin guards,shoes and shorts and coaches. Truth is, not alot of White girls are competitive in tennis or golf. Girls scholastic ice hockey is big in WNY, and the area sends a fair share of girls to D-I and D-II college programs, but the HS teams locally are usually made up of girls from three or four schools. Not enough participation for one HS to field a team.Exception the local private prep school.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim.

    Chlorinated pool water is to black women’s hair what Kryptonite is to Superman.

    There was a reason, recall, that a young Master Biden insisted that Corn Pop wear a rubber swimming cap. Would you want to be responsible for your local public pool’s equivalent of the Valdez spill?

    • LOL: Buffalo Joe
  36. @Jack D

    E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

     

    I'm guessing that he has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days BEFORE LeBron's birth.

    But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)
     
    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there's more $ in it but she wasn't good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn't have to pay for a horse - THAT is really expensive.

    I just checked this year's MIT women's fencing team and the count is:

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    Replies: @prosa123, @Reg Cæsar, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Twinkie, @Steve Sailer, @SFG

    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there’s more \$ in it but she wasn’t good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn’t have to pay for a horse – THAT is really expensive.

    Obscure, unpopular sports with lots of purpose-specific gear and no spectator interest seem to be a backdoor for University admissions for the unimpressive children of the wealthy. The “Varsity Blues” investigation sort of laid that bare.

    These should probably be demoted to club affairs which self-fund through bake sales and donations rather than being actual NCAA scholarship sports which get positive consideration in admissions. I just really don’t see the point of extravagantly funding rarefied competition in niche sports for four years the main appeal of which is that parents can pay for lessons and equipment from toddler age more or less solely in order to scholarship hunt and resume build. Amateur sports should be that – played for the love of the sport. Of course, Title IX makes this all but impossible. The Olympics (which perhaps could have thinly justified this during the Cold War era) are a dead letter now anyway.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Perhaps colleges have calculated that people who care about winning at obscure sports tend to win at obscure financial manipulations and winning at giving large amounts to their alma maters?

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    , @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    You paint this picture in black & white but real life has many shades of gray. As for the sport I am most familiar with, fencing, I didn't see any evidence of great wealth among the parents - most of them appeared to be ordinary middle class people. To the extent that they could afford lessons and gear and traveling to tournaments (they were always held in sexy exotic places like Sioux City and Columbus), they were not the poorest of the poor but neither were they billionaires. Most of the kids were there because they enjoyed the sport. To be any good you have to start at a young age, an age when most kids and parents don't have college admission on their radar. Of all the sports I am familiar with, it is the closest I know to the original concept of "amateur" - there is close to zero money to be made as a fencer. I assume there are other sports that are equally moneyless but compared to football and basketball or golf and tennis, the money to be made is pathetic.

    That being said, fencing did indeed have its own "Varsity Blues" type scandal, at Harvard.

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/11/18/harvard-fencing-scandal-affidavit/

    I understand that some colleges (e.g. Brown University) have recently attempted to demote certain sports (that black people don't like) to club status but there has been pushback (because women are only slightly lower on the diversity totem pole than blacks):

    https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2020/09/brown-agrees-to-reinstate-women-s-equestrian-women-s-fencing-in-proposed-settlement

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

  37. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls.
     
    For some reason, Minnesota's fencing community was concentrated in Saint Anthony Park, the neighborhood housing the state ag school, and the adjacent tiny suburb of Lauderdale. (Very close to where Philando Castile got shot.) It must be a friend-recruits-friend sort of thing.

    A fencing ticket was my best investment at the 1992 Olympics. It was brutally hot and muggy in Barça that week, and it offered eight hours of access to air conditioning. The only other place that cool (literally) was El Corte Ingles, a department store which probably didn't want you hanging around that long. (If I ever saw a "bubbler" anywhere on the Continent, it would have been there, too.)

    Synchronized swimming was the worst. The arena was essentially a solar thermal collector. All the men in the (metal) seats had their shirts off. If it were France or Germany rather than Spain, the women would have as well.

    Also, I arrived two hours late for a baseball game. That turned out to be feature, not bug. They were only into the fourth inning. At 98°F!

    I wish I had thought of attending the kayaking. That was almost in Andorra, and quite comfortable, I was told.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    The father of an American swimmer died of a heart attack during the opening ceremonies. One wonders whether the heat had anything to do with it:
    https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/07/26/Father-of-US-swimmer-dies-at-Olympics/3518712123200/

    The son marched with his fellow athletes oblivious to the fact that his dad was literally dying in the stands. His mother and sisters chose not to tell him to avoid spoiling the ceremonies he’d been working toward attending for so many years. He was not informed of the tragedy until the next morning.

    He competed as scheduled a few days later. He finished a disappointing sixth.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Stan Adams

    It's all about TV:

    Why the Summer Olympics are held in July, August despite heat

    The 1992 Paralympics were held a few weeks later in September. They got the better deal.

  38. The horror! A govt program that benefits people who aren’t black!

    Now back to the black-kid-accepted-to-all-the-ivies beat…I give you Ahmed Mohammed, the first black valedictorian at his (admittedly heavily black) high school, and now apparently doing well at Stanford.
    https://news.yahoo.com/teen-founder-became-first-black-181611244.html
    I looked him up and was immediately struck by the fact that his parents are almost never shown. Ok, there’s one video that shows his dad. But I dug deep and finally…
    “…mom, Sang Sok, is an immigrant from Cambodia…”
    https://theathletic.com/1981893/2020/08/10/thompson-oakland-techs-ahmed-muhammad-is-running-point-on-science-awareness/
    Gotta love it!

  39. Maybe sending your girls to college is just a different kind of pole.

  40. @Jack D

    E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

     

    I'm guessing that he has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days BEFORE LeBron's birth.

    But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)
     
    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there's more $ in it but she wasn't good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn't have to pay for a horse - THAT is really expensive.

    I just checked this year's MIT women's fencing team and the count is:

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    Replies: @prosa123, @Reg Cæsar, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Twinkie, @Steve Sailer, @SFG

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    The traditional powerhouses in fencing are Italy, France, and Hungary.* Russia, Germany, China, and South Korea also do well (usually top ten).

    *Hungarian Jews actually have a storied history in early Olympic fencing: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/community/articles/when-jews-ruled-the-fencing-world

    Fencing is extremely popular with young Asian students in my area. There are several schools with Olympic-level coaching.

  41. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon

    How one can be "nonbinary" in Iceland, with three more genders than English has, and where one's sex is built into one's very surname patronym, is a mystery. But they're giving it their best:


    Being Nonbinary: In Iceland And Everywhere

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Speaking of surnames, what if a “non-binary” man and a “non-binary” woman have a kid together in our culture? Does the sperm-producing parent get called “dad/father”? Does the kid get “his” name?

    All of this stuff seems like the worst of individualism and transhumanism combined. The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity.

    As for the main post, idk if Mexicans are underrepresented on tennis teams or not but my longest-lasting girlfriend grew up in a very Mexican, working class family in Cali and got a full ride scholarship to play tennis at a university in West Virginia of all places.

  42. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jack D


    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there’s more $ in it but she wasn’t good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn’t have to pay for a horse – THAT is really expensive.
     
    Obscure, unpopular sports with lots of purpose-specific gear and no spectator interest seem to be a backdoor for University admissions for the unimpressive children of the wealthy. The "Varsity Blues" investigation sort of laid that bare.

    These should probably be demoted to club affairs which self-fund through bake sales and donations rather than being actual NCAA scholarship sports which get positive consideration in admissions. I just really don't see the point of extravagantly funding rarefied competition in niche sports for four years the main appeal of which is that parents can pay for lessons and equipment from toddler age more or less solely in order to scholarship hunt and resume build. Amateur sports should be that - played for the love of the sport. Of course, Title IX makes this all but impossible. The Olympics (which perhaps could have thinly justified this during the Cold War era) are a dead letter now anyway.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    Perhaps colleges have calculated that people who care about winning at obscure sports tend to win at obscure financial manipulations and winning at giving large amounts to their alma maters?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Steve Sailer


    Perhaps colleges have calculated that people who care about winning at obscure sports tend to win at obscure financial manipulations and winning at giving large amounts to their alma maters?
     
    I don't know whether practitioners of obscure and niche athletic pursuits are more successful than other would-be matriculants, but I imagine that there's a great deal of selection bias going on there if there is any benefit whatsoever. The best sieve for separating applicants who are likely to be successful and wealthy future contributors (next to already being wealthy) is the old g-loaded, IQ test proxy SAT and these same institutions have spearheaded that test's serial bastardization and - because that didn't close the gaps they wanted closed - they're in the process of getting rid of it entirely. Obscure sports would seem to be a playground for high octane parents of an average kid - they can devote outsized time, resources, use networking skills and they have the wherewithal to figure out how to manipulate outcomes. Maybe that kid already has a place in high finance regardless of his or her abilities, and a selective college on the resume just smooths the entry into a glide path in life.
  43. @Mike Tre
    ON/off topic:

    I ran across this by accident, but this is a video from HBO's Rodney Dangerfield's 75th Birthday Special. The team used as extras was the Pierce College Brahmans football team from Woodland Hills, CA. The head coach and all the players were part of the actual team. The tall blond guy number 11 was our QB and he was banging the head coach's daughter who was an absolute brickhouse. I am the second defensive player growling with my face right in the camera. There's a couple more shots of me engaged with a blocker after the ball is snapped. The field is carved out of the side of a hill, and was used in the Chris Farley film Blacksheep as well.

    https://youtu.be/uLIHGYxQAIE

    It was filmed at night in the early months of 1997 IIRC, and the SFV is cold at night. Rodney was under the weather and kept a heated blanket around him in between shots. A double was used for all the running shots where his face can't be seen. The second to last shot, where he is filmed from the front breaking away from the defenders, he is actually sitting on a chair that was being run down a track. Rodney talked to us for a few minutes and seemed like a genuinely nice guy, but he being older and a bit ill it was clear he was miserable during the shoot. The director was hyper and stressed, and very annoying. The whole thing took less than 2 hours.

    The royalty checks are still flowing in, lemmetellya.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Mark Harmon played for Pierce JC in 1970-1971. In his first game for UCLA as wishbone QB in 1972 he beat #1 ranked Nebraska with 1972 Heisman winner Johnnie Rodgers, a team that won the “game of the century” 35-31 over Oklahoma the previous November.

  44. @Jack D

    E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

     

    I'm guessing that he has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days BEFORE LeBron's birth.

    But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)
     
    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there's more $ in it but she wasn't good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn't have to pay for a horse - THAT is really expensive.

    I just checked this year's MIT women's fencing team and the count is:

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    Replies: @prosa123, @Reg Cæsar, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Twinkie, @Steve Sailer, @SFG

    What’s the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    Italy. Italy made it to metal in almost all recent games and is top overall in both gold and silver going back to 1896. France is just one gold and one silver behind (but has more total medals because of more bronzes). Large gap in silver, then Hungary. Power gap, then everyone else. Fencing seems to favor surprises if not Hungarians: a top ten country in Olympic fencing is Cuba, and in a recent game silver was won by Egypt. Top ten from Wiki with gold and total medals:
    Italy
    39 -- 103
    France
    38 -- 104
    Hungary
    31 -- 70
    Soviet Union
    13 -- 39
    Cuba
    6 -- 17
    Russia (post-Soviet)
    6 -- 11
    Poland
    4 -- 19
    West Germany
    4 -- 10
    South Korea
    4 -- 10
    Belgium
    3 -- 10

    , @Ron Mexico
    @Steve Sailer

    Wayne State U always had national championship level teams. For long stretches they were coached by a Hungarian, Istvan Danosi, and a Pole, Jerzy Radz. My mother did some fencing under Danosi.

    , @Another Canadian
    @Steve Sailer

    "What’s the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?"

    Austria-Hungary

    , @Jack D
    @Steve Sailer

    France and Italy have the most medals (almost tied at 104/103), followed by Hungary (70) and USSR (39). This is for men's fencing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_fencing_(men)#All-time_medal_table_-_Men's_-_1896%E2%80%932020

    However, on a per capita basis, Hungary certainly punches (touches?) above its weight - Italy and France have >6x as many people as Hungary.

    I guess the Italians and French must stay home - in America, practically all the coaches I knew were ex-E. Bloc folks. The E. Bloc had a lot of organized, state sponsored athletic activity in many sports. I think that they felt that winning Olympic medals gave them international prestige that they couldn't gain in other spheres.

    , @Dmon
    @Steve Sailer

    Harper Chalice is at the cutting edge of Olympic fencing.

    https://harperchalice.com/portfolio/olympics-perimeter-security/

  45. Black female athletes remain generally underrepresented in most programs, particularly in sports like tennis, swimming and soccer.

    Underrepresented in swimming? Does someone want to tell them about bone density?

  46. @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    What's the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Ron Mexico, @Another Canadian, @Jack D, @Dmon

    Italy. Italy made it to metal in almost all recent games and is top overall in both gold and silver going back to 1896. France is just one gold and one silver behind (but has more total medals because of more bronzes). Large gap in silver, then Hungary. Power gap, then everyone else. Fencing seems to favor surprises if not Hungarians: a top ten country in Olympic fencing is Cuba, and in a recent game silver was won by Egypt. Top ten from Wiki with gold and total medals:
    Italy
    39 — 103
    France
    38 — 104
    Hungary
    31 — 70
    Soviet Union
    13 — 39
    Cuba
    6 — 17
    Russia (post-Soviet)
    6 — 11
    Poland
    4 — 19
    West Germany
    4 — 10
    South Korea
    4 — 10
    Belgium
    3 — 10

  47. @ScarletNumber
    @Buffalo Joe


    Ah, blacks, not just black women, tend not to swim
     
    One of the defining characteristics of the African Rockfish is the tendency to drown. Just ask Joe Delaney who played for the Kansas City Chiefs 1981-82.

    Kids from the suburb are not about to work the inner city pools and tell some hyper black child to calm down, or don’t run or no diving from the side of the pool.
     
    We don't mind trying to impose discipline on the young Rockfish; the issue is that when they start to chimp out we know we won't get backed up.

    Replies: @Danindc

    Joe Delaney knew he couldn’t swim and jumped into that pond to save those kids anyway.

  48. @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    What's the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Ron Mexico, @Another Canadian, @Jack D, @Dmon

    Wayne State U always had national championship level teams. For long stretches they were coached by a Hungarian, Istvan Danosi, and a Pole, Jerzy Radz. My mother did some fencing under Danosi.

  49. @Barnard
    @Arclight

    Does this include all divisions of the NCAA? It is hard to believe blacks are only 30% of the players in women's DI college basketball. Perhaps that is what is happening here, small colleges, particularly in flyover states aren't recruiting black girls to play sports there. I wonder what the interest level would even be among black girls for playing DII sports at a mostly white college in flyover country.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @EddieSpaghetti, @PSR

    Good point. Anyone have the chart for men in college sports?

  50. @Hypnotoad666
    @Arclight

    Yep. As Arclight notes, an honest comparison would be blacks in various sports vs. their percentage of the total student body. But that wouldn't support the narrative.

    Also, it's just a dumb premise to assume that not being on a woman's sports team is somehow bad for blacks. There are only 24 hours in a day. If a student decides not to invest hundreds of unpaid hours into a sports team with no possible professional pay off, those extra hours will go into studying, other organizations, or something. Reinvesting black girl's limited time in sports is hardly a recipe for improving their income or academic success.

    But hey, if the NYT sees a real or imagined "disparity," the narrative can only interpret it one way -- as yet another case of systemic racism.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Buffalo Joe

    Great point – athletics take away from study time, and black women are not high performers in terms of major pursued, graduation rates, etc. On the flipside most athletes get some kind of scholarship and that could be part of the subtext of this column – essentially they want college to be cheaper for more black women.

    Anyway, when I was in college I was friends with a woman who was on our school’s basketball team (D1) and it was a major time suck, although it also imposed structure which can be helpful as well. This particular woman was a pretty dutiful type though, and the social life aspect of college never got in the way of her academic or sporting obligations.

  51. Sexual dimorphism is a thing, and without separate groupings, women would be excluded from high level sports. It’s almost that simple.

    The problem is there is no equivalent to football, and only so many basket ball and track slots. To fill out the equity numbers required by Title IX requirements requires adding boutique sports like rowing and fencing that benefit upper income white families.

    • Replies: @Guest007
    @Dr. DoomNGloom

    My favorite add on sport was women's bowling. It is a sport that many of the non-football schools have that cannot afford crew or equestrian. Iy also a sport where the HBCUs field teams even though many of the players are white. See the top 10 women's bowling team from North Carolina A&T.
    https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/bowling/nc/ncaa-bowling-rpi

    https://ncataggies.com/images/2021/11/22/2021_22_TeamPic.jpg?width=1600

    Also see the North Carolina A&T Golf Team with the retired NBA players who never played college basketball.

    https://ncataggies.com/images/2021/10/11/101121_M_GOLF_PHOENIX_INVITE_01.JPG?width=1600

  52. There are many issues involving women’s college sports that are never covered by the sports media and are left to the obscure higher eduation media.

    1. For most sports, scholarships are partial scholarships. Here is a list of scholarships for each sport.

    https://scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits

    2. For the non-revenue sports, the real benefit is in getting accepted to a better school that one can get into strictly as a student. That was the basis for the Varsity Blues Scandal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_bribery_scandal

    It is also wyy the top 25 in many women sports looks like the U.S. News top 100 list.
    women’s soccer: https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-di-women/
    women’s lacrose: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/wdi/polls
    women’s field hockey: https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/fieldhockey/d1/ncaa-field-hockey-rpi

    3. When anyone tells me that they played sports in college outside of football or basketball, my first question is whether they were on scholarship. My second question is whether they played all four years. The answers are usually no and no. Being an athlete in college is a full time job that interferes with being a real students who has goals after college. As one former college student expressed to me: There was no way to be an athlete and pass their Arabic class.

    4. Many women like playing sports because it gives them something to belong to other than a sorority.

  53. @Stan Adams
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I always thought it was ironic that Elizabeth Berkley is known for two roles - the feminist on Saved by the Bell and the stripper in Showgirls.

    High school:

    https://i.ibb.co/zrbnH34/C4296241-A019-426-E-A314-E62-CCF93-D925.jpg

    A few years after high school:

    https://i.ibb.co/wsQ288X/044-AE208-606-E-4686-81-BC-67-F5-F03344-FC.webp

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Truth

    Haha, never seen either, Stan. I do know that there are lots of strip bars all up and down Florida’s east coast. I’ve read about this …

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You have not been misinformed.

    One guy I know was getting a lap dance. At one point her crotch was a few inches above his face. A drop of sweat from her lady-bits area fell and landed in his eye.

    He developed a severe infection that almost left him permanently blind in that one eye.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @Achmed E. Newman

  54. @Steve Sailer
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Perhaps colleges have calculated that people who care about winning at obscure sports tend to win at obscure financial manipulations and winning at giving large amounts to their alma maters?

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Perhaps colleges have calculated that people who care about winning at obscure sports tend to win at obscure financial manipulations and winning at giving large amounts to their alma maters?

    I don’t know whether practitioners of obscure and niche athletic pursuits are more successful than other would-be matriculants, but I imagine that there’s a great deal of selection bias going on there if there is any benefit whatsoever. The best sieve for separating applicants who are likely to be successful and wealthy future contributors (next to already being wealthy) is the old g-loaded, IQ test proxy SAT and these same institutions have spearheaded that test’s serial bastardization and – because that didn’t close the gaps they wanted closed – they’re in the process of getting rid of it entirely. Obscure sports would seem to be a playground for high octane parents of an average kid – they can devote outsized time, resources, use networking skills and they have the wherewithal to figure out how to manipulate outcomes. Maybe that kid already has a place in high finance regardless of his or her abilities, and a selective college on the resume just smooths the entry into a glide path in life.

  55. @Altai
    I'm surprised they make up 7% of cross-country, so basically they are massively over-represented in the schools that do cross-country.

    But, as always, crl-f 'class' nowhere to be found.

    Seriously, do a breakout by the socio-economic background and then by race and see if, controlling for class, you see any racial disparities. You'd probably find that controlling for class that blacks are over-represented in almost all sports.

    Replies: @Guest007

    Except Basketball and track. Many of the women basketball players grew up in areas where virtually all blacks were expected to play basketball. Track lends itself to easy identification of talent due to sprinting.

  56. OTish…

    Ms Griner, affiliated to the Women’s National Basketball Association (WNBA), is considered one of the most dominant players in her sport’s history.

    She travelled to Russia to play for EuroLeague team UMMC Ekaterinburg, where she had worked since 2014 during the US off-season. Roughly half of WNBA players compete overseas in the off-season.

    For most, it’s a way to augment their domestic income, with WNBA players being paid roughly five times more in Russia than they do in the US.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62011084

    Is this correct? If so, why is there relatively so much more money in the Russian women’s game?

  57. A lot of political correctness and wokery is rejection and denunciation of generalizations, or at least of certain generalizations involving certain categories of people. Steve Sailer is a largely banished heretic who offers and examines generalizations in a happy spirit of inquiry. Whether all his guesses about general truths turn out to be true or not, his willingness to offer them up distinguishes his blogs in a refreshing way from most political writing today. Almost all news media today use terms like “systemic racism” without fear, even though they imply a negative generalization about white people. Of course, no negative generalization is permitted in those pages about black people, women, immigrants, homosexuals, transsexuals, unwed mothers etc. In my view, there is no freedom unless both negative and positive generalizations are permitted, about any category of people. Nihil nisi bonum is a fine rule of manners when at a funeral, but it is ridiculous among thinking people.

  58. @Franz

    I would say that she is no more than 1/8 black by ancestry and could easily be part of the white community if she chose.
     
    And she will. If being white becomes the sine qua non again.

    A really daring thought might be that "nonwhite" got fashionable and even profitable about 50 years back and might be reaching the sell-by date.

    What sort of "event" that actually does change everything, would it take for the current religion of Diversity to collapse altogether? I know, it would have to be so staggering that our entire culture would have no choice but to ditch multiculturalism in favor of a return to Euro-centralism as total as it was a century ago?

    A good sci-fi writer might have some ideas for that.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m no science-fiction writer, Franz, but I am betting my ass(ets) on what will stop the Dieversity promotion and pretty much all the rest of the stupidity. That would be the financial SHTF times that are coming. I don’t think it’ll be one specific event. When things get real, the stupid stops.

    • Replies: @sayless
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Agree about the cultural effects of the upcoming Greater Depression on our mandated public Conversations, Achmed.

    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for $11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer. And it's only the first of July. There may have been some price gouging on account of the holiday, but still.

    By December, I think a lot of people won't have any attention left available for pronouns and all the rest of that chaff.

    So, Every Hurricane Has A Still Eye At The Center.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    , @Franz
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Probably so. As soon as thing August?

    The depressing thing is Biden might be the last president. Low note to go out on.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  59. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Stan Adams

    Haha, never seen either, Stan. I do know that there are lots of strip bars all up and down Florida's east coast. I've read about this ...

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    You have not been misinformed.

    One guy I know was getting a lap dance. At one point her crotch was a few inches above his face. A drop of sweat from her lady-bits area fell and landed in his eye.

    He developed a severe infection that almost left him permanently blind in that one eye.

    • Replies: @additionalMike
    @Stan Adams

    As my mother would say when we kids would want to pick up some interesting object on the sidewalk (a bottle, a dead mouse) "Drop that! You don't know where it's been!"

    Strip bar hoo-hah is kind of like gas station sushi: only for the brave.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Stan Adams

    That was a crazy story. How do you explain THAT to the ER nurse, much less your fiance?

    Luckily, nothing like that happened to me my friend.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  60. @mousey
    You missed badminton. In my high school days, this was dominated by Hispanic and Asian girls.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Mousey, Badminton a big sport in China. Perhaps some of the culture comes over here. You wrote “Asian”, but did you mean Oriental, or specifically Chinese?

    I gotta say, rather than sports with balls, that badminton shuttlecock* is really unique, as it does things a ball can’t do. That’s the same with the Frisbee™, excuse me “disk”, as used in Frisbee Golf and Ultimate Frisbee, making that latter sport so much cooler than soccer. Oh, and you can use your God-given hands and arms, too!

    .

    * Called just the “shuttle” or the “birdie”, though I swear I remember it called the “fly” way back the few times I played the game.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I gotta say, rather than sports with balls, that badminton shuttlecock* is really unique, as it does things a ball can’t do. That’s the same with the Frisbee™, excuse me “disk”, as used in Frisbee Golf and Ultimate Frisbee, making that latter sport so much cooler than soccer. Oh, and you can use your God-given hands and arms, too!


    Ultimate Frisbee has a hippie image that limits its appeal. Maybe Frisbee Golf too. While being good at it might be of some very limited help with hippie chicks, the cheerleader/beauty queen types won't be dropping their panties like they do for football and basketball players.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  61. So my in-laws are into lacrosse bigly and the World Championships are currently just underway a few miles away here in MD. They were excited that the first ever African Women’s team, from Uganda was coming.
    Alas, one US official denied them visas as they were about to board.
    These are unhappy families in women’s athletics.

    https://chimpreports.com/lacrosse-u-s-denies-visas-to-uganda-women-national-team-as-championship-starts-today/

    This link is worth clicking just for the picture. If this is the Women’s team, I want naught to do with the men.

    Rumor is that the official has been removed. Rumors that the removal was to a cooking pot have not yet been denied.
    (But that’s because I’ve only just started them. Give me time)

    Oddly enough I was thinking about Uganda earlier in the week because of the news that one of the Joe Biden’s was going to Jeddah, the place where Idi Amin, the finest encapsulation of African Leadership yet to emerge, retired. I wondered if the Biden was going to make arrangements to take Idi’s old Suite in De Elite Boarding House, Jeddah where the great Alan Coren had located him.

    Wiki tells us, of Coren:

    One of his most successful books, The Collected Bulletins of Idi Amin (a collection of his Punch articles about Amin) was rejected for publication in the United States on the grounds of racial sensitivity, These Bulletins were later made into a comedy album, The Collected Broadcasts of Idi Amin with the actor John Bird. After the Tanzanian capture of Kampala in 1979 the American journalist Art Barrett discovered a copy of Coren’s book on Idi Amin’s bedside table

    Have a good weekend.

  62. @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    What's the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Ron Mexico, @Another Canadian, @Jack D, @Dmon

    “What’s the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?”

    Austria-Hungary

  63. Anonymous[658] • Disclaimer says:

    48% of college womens tennis is non white ? Simply not possible. The best rograms year after year, Standford Florida Duke Vandy etc are virtually all white women.

    Has to be some kind of misprint or fakery for scholarships going on

    • Replies: @EddieSpaghetti
    @Anonymous


    "48% of college womens tennis is non white ? Simply not possible."
     
    The "other" catagory in the table includes "people who are not US citizens or nationals." So, if there are no typos, it is very likely that the 43% of women tennis players who are listed as "other" are mostly white foreigners.
  64. @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    What's the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Ron Mexico, @Another Canadian, @Jack D, @Dmon

    France and Italy have the most medals (almost tied at 104/103), followed by Hungary (70) and USSR (39). This is for men’s fencing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_fencing_(men)#All-time_medal_table_-_Men’s_-_1896%E2%80%932020

    However, on a per capita basis, Hungary certainly punches (touches?) above its weight – Italy and France have >6x as many people as Hungary.

    I guess the Italians and French must stay home – in America, practically all the coaches I knew were ex-E. Bloc folks. The E. Bloc had a lot of organized, state sponsored athletic activity in many sports. I think that they felt that winning Olympic medals gave them international prestige that they couldn’t gain in other spheres.

  65. @Jack D

    E.g., LeBron James’s dad has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days after his conception.

     

    I'm guessing that he has been in jail most of the time since 8 months and 29 days BEFORE LeBron's birth.

    But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads, which is why they want to play golf or softball or whatever boy-oriented sport it is their dads like. (I suspect the main exceptions to this rule are in sports that make sense to little girls without daddy’s guidance like gymnastics and figure skating.)
     
    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there's more $ in it but she wasn't good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn't have to pay for a horse - THAT is really expensive.

    I just checked this year's MIT women's fencing team and the count is:

    1 Arab Muslim with hijab
    1 S. Asian
    6 E. Asian
    4 Russian or Slavic surname
    2 Black
    3 Non-slavic White

    (The E. Bloc was big on fencing).

    Replies: @prosa123, @Reg Cæsar, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Twinkie, @Steve Sailer, @SFG

    I’ve heard fencing is one of the brainier sports and MIT naturally had one of the better teams.

    Whether the geek appeal is due to the demands of the sport or Gary Gygax and J.R.R. Tolkien I have no idea.

  66. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jack D


    My daughter did fencing but not because I did, nor is it a sport that usually appeals to girls. She rotated thru fencing as an activity at day camp and she really liked it. I would have preferred tennis b/c there’s more $ in it but she wasn’t good at tennis. I sure did pay for lessons though. And flying to tournaments and staying in hotels, etc. At least I didn’t have to pay for a horse – THAT is really expensive.
     
    Obscure, unpopular sports with lots of purpose-specific gear and no spectator interest seem to be a backdoor for University admissions for the unimpressive children of the wealthy. The "Varsity Blues" investigation sort of laid that bare.

    These should probably be demoted to club affairs which self-fund through bake sales and donations rather than being actual NCAA scholarship sports which get positive consideration in admissions. I just really don't see the point of extravagantly funding rarefied competition in niche sports for four years the main appeal of which is that parents can pay for lessons and equipment from toddler age more or less solely in order to scholarship hunt and resume build. Amateur sports should be that - played for the love of the sport. Of course, Title IX makes this all but impossible. The Olympics (which perhaps could have thinly justified this during the Cold War era) are a dead letter now anyway.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Jack D

    You paint this picture in black & white but real life has many shades of gray. As for the sport I am most familiar with, fencing, I didn’t see any evidence of great wealth among the parents – most of them appeared to be ordinary middle class people. To the extent that they could afford lessons and gear and traveling to tournaments (they were always held in sexy exotic places like Sioux City and Columbus), they were not the poorest of the poor but neither were they billionaires. Most of the kids were there because they enjoyed the sport. To be any good you have to start at a young age, an age when most kids and parents don’t have college admission on their radar. Of all the sports I am familiar with, it is the closest I know to the original concept of “amateur” – there is close to zero money to be made as a fencer. I assume there are other sports that are equally moneyless but compared to football and basketball or golf and tennis, the money to be made is pathetic.

    That being said, fencing did indeed have its own “Varsity Blues” type scandal, at Harvard.

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/11/18/harvard-fencing-scandal-affidavit/

    I understand that some colleges (e.g. Brown University) have recently attempted to demote certain sports (that black people don’t like) to club status but there has been pushback (because women are only slightly lower on the diversity totem pole than blacks):

    https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2020/09/brown-agrees-to-reinstate-women-s-equestrian-women-s-fencing-in-proposed-settlement

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Jack D


    You paint this picture in black & white but real life has many shades of gray. As for the sport I am most familiar with, fencing, I didn’t see any evidence of great wealth among the parents – most of them appeared to be ordinary middle class people . . . they were not the poorest of the poor but neither were they billionaires.
     
    They are the kids of UMC strivers, and the fencing is resume building. Perhaps that's even enjoyable! A mediocre scion of a Billionaire wouldn't take up fencing, his parents would endow some chairs and build a dormitory and he'd be in without any jockeying.

    To the extent that they could afford lessons and gear and traveling to tournaments . . .

     

    They were there of course, so it was "to the fullest extent." You didn't hear from the kids sitting at home twiddling their swords.

    (they were always held in sexy exotic places like Sioux City and Columbus)
     
    That's just the case with all youth sports, even the good sports that people like. You can even have a tournament somewhere neat like "Boston," which means "rusted out former textile town 15 miles outside of the city limits with cheap hotel rates."

    Most of the kids were there because they enjoyed the sport.
     
    Maybe they did - kids are suggestible.

    To be any good you have to start at a young age, an age when most kids and parents don’t have college admission on their radar.
     
    People in Manhattan register their fetus for admission into elite preschools. Of course the children's futures are on these people's minds - it's just that you're mingling in a class of people who know that it's frowned upon to reveal that they have status jockeying in mind.

    Of all the sports I am familiar with, it is the closest I know to the original concept of “amateur” – there is close to zero money to be made as a fencer.
     
    I'm all for it, as I said. Possible injuries aside it is probably a good bit of exercise. I don't find it all that interesting, but more power to them. They should have self-funding clubs at colleges and Universities where there is enough interest. It's just that I don't think a rarefied public good (even private colleges get enormous government subsidy) should be distributed on any account according to who really likes to imitate Douglas Fairbanks Jr. in their free time.

    I assume there are other sports that are equally moneyless but compared to football and basketball or golf and tennis, the money to be made is pathetic.
     
    All but a very small percentage of a very few sports at the very highest levels are remunerative. Some attract enough spectator interest to generate some degree of income (i.e., the NCAA Basketball tournament). Out of any given NBA draft class (2 rounds), there might be 6-10 players who become starters early in their careers. Some other number become bench players vying for a solid career. The bulk wash out and many never play one minute in the NBA. If you take the final four teams in a given year, maybe 3 0r 4 will become starters and maybe one or two stars. The best of the rest of the kids you watch in March will play in the G League subsidized by an NBA franchise playing with basically no spectator interest.

    That being said, fencing did indeed have its own “Varsity Blues” type scandal, at Harvard.
     
    That's a scandal alright, but it's the pointy, illegal end of a larger body of legal corruption.

    I understand that some colleges (e.g. Brown University) have recently attempted to demote certain sports (that black people don’t like) to club status but there has been pushback (because women are only slightly lower on the diversity totem pole than blacks):
     
    If Brown got rid of its Football team, it could jettison the rest of the nonsense. But it's kind of bad form to get rid of the legacy team in the League that gives your elite circle of schools its very name, isn't it?
  67. Anon[172] • Disclaimer says:

    “My guess is that the real story is how under represented Hispanic (especially Mexican-American) are in college sports”

    I once saw a development-league American women’s soccer team play a D-league Mexican women’s team. The American women were pathetic compared to the Mexicans – sloppy, slow, quick to get angry and, yes, fat. I wonder how much raw Hispanic talent is wasted because women’s soccer in America is a white sport. I also wonder how many athletic white women choose not to play soccer because it’s a lesbian sport.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @Anon

    After my sophomore year my track performance went from great to mediocre on account of a 15 pound weight gain, so I switched to playing soccer in Spring for the remainder of high school to mix things up. Continued doing cross-country because it was still fun being in the middle of the pack and staying in shape, but I couldn’t bear getting out there on the track once I had no shot of winning anymore. Anyway, I had never played soccer formally before that point, but I became one of the best players within weeks of joining the team. Many longtime club soccer players refused to run more than 5-10 seconds and were also prissy and unwilling to get physical/aggressive on top of it. I was actually shocked by how much less competitive than track it was. Soccer just seemed like a rich girls’ club. Not a lot of athleticism.

  68. anon[174] • Disclaimer says:

    Many white/Asian kids esp. girls play sports because of holistic admission to elite colleges. Black/hispanic girls either don’t care about college(like the inner city girls) or they only need half way decent grades to get into elite colleges, don’t have to worry about sports, so only those who are really interested in a sport play it.

  69. @Achmed E. Newman
    @mousey

    Mousey, Badminton a big sport in China. Perhaps some of the culture comes over here. You wrote "Asian", but did you mean Oriental, or specifically Chinese?

    I gotta say, rather than sports with balls, that badminton shuttlecock* is really unique, as it does things a ball can't do. That's the same with the Frisbee™, excuse me "disk", as used in Frisbee Golf and Ultimate Frisbee, making that latter sport so much cooler than soccer. Oh, and you can use your God-given hands and arms, too!

    .

    * Called just the "shuttle" or the "birdie", though I swear I remember it called the "fly" way back the few times I played the game.

    Replies: @prosa123

    I gotta say, rather than sports with balls, that badminton shuttlecock* is really unique, as it does things a ball can’t do. That’s the same with the Frisbee™, excuse me “disk”, as used in Frisbee Golf and Ultimate Frisbee, making that latter sport so much cooler than soccer. Oh, and you can use your God-given hands and arms, too!

    Ultimate Frisbee has a hippie image that limits its appeal. Maybe Frisbee Golf too. While being good at it might be of some very limited help with hippie chicks, the cheerleader/beauty queen types won’t be dropping their panties like they do for football and basketball players.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @prosa123

    Well, not everyone can make 1st string on those football or bball teams, Prosa, but Ultimate is a lot of non-stop running, like soccer. As an adult, in may be more important and worthwhile to give up on the thug-run sportsball and do something good for one's cardio-vascular system.

    Yes, that hippie appeal image is warranted. All the people I ever met that played Frisbee Golf back in the day showed me how easy it was to mix up your weed in a normal regulation-sized disk. I didn't participate.

  70. @Stan Adams
    @Reg Cæsar

    The father of an American swimmer died of a heart attack during the opening ceremonies. One wonders whether the heat had anything to do with it:
    https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/07/26/Father-of-US-swimmer-dies-at-Olympics/3518712123200/

    The son marched with his fellow athletes oblivious to the fact that his dad was literally dying in the stands. His mother and sisters chose not to tell him to avoid spoiling the ceremonies he'd been working toward attending for so many years. He was not informed of the tragedy until the next morning.

    He competed as scheduled a few days later. He finished a disappointing sixth.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It’s all about TV:

    Why the Summer Olympics are held in July, August despite heat

    The 1992 Paralympics were held a few weeks later in September. They got the better deal.

  71. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Franz

    I'm no science-fiction writer, Franz, but I am betting my ass(ets) on what will stop the Dieversity promotion and pretty much all the rest of the stupidity. That would be the financial SHTF times that are coming. I don't think it'll be one specific event. When things get real, the stupid stops.

    Replies: @sayless, @Franz

    Agree about the cultural effects of the upcoming Greater Depression on our mandated public Conversations, Achmed.

    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for \$11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer. And it’s only the first of July. There may have been some price gouging on account of the holiday, but still.

    By December, I think a lot of people won’t have any attention left available for pronouns and all the rest of that chaff.

    So, Every Hurricane Has A Still Eye At The Center.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @sayless

    $11.99 for 8 hot dogs?! I don't think I've bought any myself in 20 years, Sayless, but a number like 2 or 3 bucks comes to mind, you know for the usual cheap brand - it's all ears, lips, and assholes anyway, but BEEF ears, lips, and assholes, to be Kosher about it...

    Not altogether coincidentally, I wrote a post today that referred to what I call "Inflation by Deflation", the often sneaky decreases in volume or weight of products. "I scream, you scream ..." is, of course, about ice cream. At first glance,, I thought the size of a formerly 8 cup container, then 7, then 6, had gone down more. Nope, I was glad to be wrong for a change.

    Yes, the storm is coming. Hurricane season is upon us too, and trying to figure out the economic season is like Tryin' to reason with hurricane season. (Great Jimmy Buffett song title, but the song is not one of my favorites.)


    By December, I think a lot of people won’t have any attention left available for pronouns and all the rest of that chaff.
     
    Yep, that is my opinion on the matter too.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @Jack D
    @sayless


    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for $11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer.
     
    That's an anomaly. I just checked the website of Acme (a division of Albertsons, which also operates as Safeway, Vons, Jewel-Osco, Shaw’s, Tom Thumb, Randalls, United Supermarkets, Pavilions, Star Market, Haggen and Carrs) and a 1 lb. package of hot dogs starts at $3.19 (turkey franks). For $3.69 to $5.00 you get dogs that have a blend of chicken and pork. Starting at $5.00/lb you can get all beef or beef and pork. $8.00 to $11/lb. gets you kosher, uncured and other "fancy" hot dogs. The only ones that were more than $11/lb. were "organic".

    Walmart has Oscar Mayers for $2.48/lb.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oscar-Mayer-Classic-Uncured-Wieners-Hot-Dogs-10-ct-Pack/10292514?athbdg=L1300

    So maybe you need to be shopping at a different supermarket.

    That being said, REAL beef has gotten expensive. Even at WalMart, ribeye or strip steak is $13/lb. TBH, the less red meat you eat the better, so if this prompts you to switch to poultry or salmon, your heart will thank you. A steak is a great treat but it should be reserved for special occasions and not something you eat every day or even every week.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Stan Adams

  72. @prosa123
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I gotta say, rather than sports with balls, that badminton shuttlecock* is really unique, as it does things a ball can’t do. That’s the same with the Frisbee™, excuse me “disk”, as used in Frisbee Golf and Ultimate Frisbee, making that latter sport so much cooler than soccer. Oh, and you can use your God-given hands and arms, too!


    Ultimate Frisbee has a hippie image that limits its appeal. Maybe Frisbee Golf too. While being good at it might be of some very limited help with hippie chicks, the cheerleader/beauty queen types won't be dropping their panties like they do for football and basketball players.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, not everyone can make 1st string on those football or bball teams, Prosa, but Ultimate is a lot of non-stop running, like soccer. As an adult, in may be more important and worthwhile to give up on the thug-run sportsball and do something good for one’s cardio-vascular system.

    Yes, that hippie appeal image is warranted. All the people I ever met that played Frisbee Golf back in the day showed me how easy it was to mix up your weed in a normal regulation-sized disk. I didn’t participate.

  73. Happy Warrior Kickball Harpies Grab EQUITY From Bumbling Boob Boy’s US Soccer Team.

    US Men’s Soccer Team got swindled like bastards and the ladies are laughing their soccer-toned arses off. Clear-eyed and cold political observation folks!

    US Women’s Soccer Team Sports Illustrated Swimsuit lady Alex Morgan just channeled some Chrissie Hynde energy and flashed some leg and had a long range plan to grab some loot from the US Men’s Soccer Team and she used her intensity and grit to grab that loot good.

    GRIM DETERMINATION MUST BE RESPECTED even if you disagree or disapprove of the goal — that’s a pun! — that the person is grimly determined to achieve.

    Gonna use my arms
    Gonna use my legs
    Gonna use my style
    Gonna use my sidestep
    Gonna use my fingers
    Gonna use my, my, my, imagination

    Okay, now I must elevate Abby Dahlkemper just slightly ahead of lady shark soccer broad Alex Morgan.

    Dahlkemper is first among equals in terms of attractiveness. The experts at MIT, Harvard, and Middlesex County College, NJ, all agree with my assessment that Dahlkemper is just a bit more pleasing to the eye than Morgan. But it’s close…both soccer ladies — Dahlkemper and Morgan — are quite scrumptious.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  74. @Jack D
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    You paint this picture in black & white but real life has many shades of gray. As for the sport I am most familiar with, fencing, I didn't see any evidence of great wealth among the parents - most of them appeared to be ordinary middle class people. To the extent that they could afford lessons and gear and traveling to tournaments (they were always held in sexy exotic places like Sioux City and Columbus), they were not the poorest of the poor but neither were they billionaires. Most of the kids were there because they enjoyed the sport. To be any good you have to start at a young age, an age when most kids and parents don't have college admission on their radar. Of all the sports I am familiar with, it is the closest I know to the original concept of "amateur" - there is close to zero money to be made as a fencer. I assume there are other sports that are equally moneyless but compared to football and basketball or golf and tennis, the money to be made is pathetic.

    That being said, fencing did indeed have its own "Varsity Blues" type scandal, at Harvard.

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/11/18/harvard-fencing-scandal-affidavit/

    I understand that some colleges (e.g. Brown University) have recently attempted to demote certain sports (that black people don't like) to club status but there has been pushback (because women are only slightly lower on the diversity totem pole than blacks):

    https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2020/09/brown-agrees-to-reinstate-women-s-equestrian-women-s-fencing-in-proposed-settlement

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    You paint this picture in black & white but real life has many shades of gray. As for the sport I am most familiar with, fencing, I didn’t see any evidence of great wealth among the parents – most of them appeared to be ordinary middle class people . . . they were not the poorest of the poor but neither were they billionaires.

    They are the kids of UMC strivers, and the fencing is resume building. Perhaps that’s even enjoyable! A mediocre scion of a Billionaire wouldn’t take up fencing, his parents would endow some chairs and build a dormitory and he’d be in without any jockeying.

    [MORE]

    To the extent that they could afford lessons and gear and traveling to tournaments . . .

    They were there of course, so it was “to the fullest extent.” You didn’t hear from the kids sitting at home twiddling their swords.

    (they were always held in sexy exotic places like Sioux City and Columbus)

    That’s just the case with all youth sports, even the good sports that people like. You can even have a tournament somewhere neat like “Boston,” which means “rusted out former textile town 15 miles outside of the city limits with cheap hotel rates.”

    Most of the kids were there because they enjoyed the sport.

    Maybe they did – kids are suggestible.

    To be any good you have to start at a young age, an age when most kids and parents don’t have college admission on their radar.

    People in Manhattan register their fetus for admission into elite preschools. Of course the children’s futures are on these people’s minds – it’s just that you’re mingling in a class of people who know that it’s frowned upon to reveal that they have status jockeying in mind.

    Of all the sports I am familiar with, it is the closest I know to the original concept of “amateur” – there is close to zero money to be made as a fencer.

    I’m all for it, as I said. Possible injuries aside it is probably a good bit of exercise. I don’t find it all that interesting, but more power to them. They should have self-funding clubs at colleges and Universities where there is enough interest. It’s just that I don’t think a rarefied public good (even private colleges get enormous government subsidy) should be distributed on any account according to who really likes to imitate Douglas Fairbanks Jr. in their free time.

    I assume there are other sports that are equally moneyless but compared to football and basketball or golf and tennis, the money to be made is pathetic.

    All but a very small percentage of a very few sports at the very highest levels are remunerative. Some attract enough spectator interest to generate some degree of income (i.e., the NCAA Basketball tournament). Out of any given NBA draft class (2 rounds), there might be 6-10 players who become starters early in their careers. Some other number become bench players vying for a solid career. The bulk wash out and many never play one minute in the NBA. If you take the final four teams in a given year, maybe 3 0r 4 will become starters and maybe one or two stars. The best of the rest of the kids you watch in March will play in the G League subsidized by an NBA franchise playing with basically no spectator interest.

    That being said, fencing did indeed have its own “Varsity Blues” type scandal, at Harvard.

    That’s a scandal alright, but it’s the pointy, illegal end of a larger body of legal corruption.

    I understand that some colleges (e.g. Brown University) have recently attempted to demote certain sports (that black people don’t like) to club status but there has been pushback (because women are only slightly lower on the diversity totem pole than blacks):

    If Brown got rid of its Football team, it could jettison the rest of the nonsense. But it’s kind of bad form to get rid of the legacy team in the League that gives your elite circle of schools its very name, isn’t it?

  75. @Barnard
    @Arclight

    Does this include all divisions of the NCAA? It is hard to believe blacks are only 30% of the players in women's DI college basketball. Perhaps that is what is happening here, small colleges, particularly in flyover states aren't recruiting black girls to play sports there. I wonder what the interest level would even be among black girls for playing DII sports at a mostly white college in flyover country.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @EddieSpaghetti, @PSR

    As best I can tell, the data deals with the number of female athletes in all 3 NCAA divisions. In particular, this data does not appear to take into account in any way shape or form whether these athletes have athletic scholarships or not. So the question of who is getting the athletic scholarship money does not appear to be addressed here.

  76. @Barnard
    @Arclight

    Does this include all divisions of the NCAA? It is hard to believe blacks are only 30% of the players in women's DI college basketball. Perhaps that is what is happening here, small colleges, particularly in flyover states aren't recruiting black girls to play sports there. I wonder what the interest level would even be among black girls for playing DII sports at a mostly white college in flyover country.

    Replies: @Hannah Katz, @EddieSpaghetti, @PSR

    I suspect the pool of potential recruits is pretty skimpy.

  77. @sayless
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Agree about the cultural effects of the upcoming Greater Depression on our mandated public Conversations, Achmed.

    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for $11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer. And it's only the first of July. There may have been some price gouging on account of the holiday, but still.

    By December, I think a lot of people won't have any attention left available for pronouns and all the rest of that chaff.

    So, Every Hurricane Has A Still Eye At The Center.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    \$11.99 for 8 hot dogs?! I don’t think I’ve bought any myself in 20 years, Sayless, but a number like 2 or 3 bucks comes to mind, you know for the usual cheap brand – it’s all ears, lips, and assholes anyway, but BEEF ears, lips, and assholes, to be Kosher about it…

    Not altogether coincidentally, I wrote a post today that referred to what I call “Inflation by Deflation”, the often sneaky decreases in volume or weight of products. “I scream, you scream …” is, of course, about ice cream. At first glance,, I thought the size of a formerly 8 cup container, then 7, then 6, had gone down more. Nope, I was glad to be wrong for a change.

    Yes, the storm is coming. Hurricane season is upon us too, and trying to figure out the economic season is like Tryin’ to reason with hurricane season. (Great Jimmy Buffett song title, but the song is not one of my favorites.)

    By December, I think a lot of people won’t have any attention left available for pronouns and all the rest of that chaff.

    Yep, that is my opinion on the matter too.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Ach, WNY's favorite hot dog, Sahlens is on sale this week ....three pound package...$9.99.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Achmed E. Newman

  78. @Hypnotoad666
    @Arclight

    Yep. As Arclight notes, an honest comparison would be blacks in various sports vs. their percentage of the total student body. But that wouldn't support the narrative.

    Also, it's just a dumb premise to assume that not being on a woman's sports team is somehow bad for blacks. There are only 24 hours in a day. If a student decides not to invest hundreds of unpaid hours into a sports team with no possible professional pay off, those extra hours will go into studying, other organizations, or something. Reinvesting black girl's limited time in sports is hardly a recipe for improving their income or academic success.

    But hey, if the NYT sees a real or imagined "disparity," the narrative can only interpret it one way -- as yet another case of systemic racism.

    Replies: @Arclight, @Buffalo Joe

    Hypno, great comment.

  79. @Dr. DoomNGloom
    Sexual dimorphism is a thing, and without separate groupings, women would be excluded from high level sports. It's almost that simple.

    The problem is there is no equivalent to football, and only so many basket ball and track slots. To fill out the equity numbers required by Title IX requirements requires adding boutique sports like rowing and fencing that benefit upper income white families.

    Replies: @Guest007

    My favorite add on sport was women’s bowling. It is a sport that many of the non-football schools have that cannot afford crew or equestrian. Iy also a sport where the HBCUs field teams even though many of the players are white. See the top 10 women’s bowling team from North Carolina A&T.
    https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/bowling/nc/ncaa-bowling-rpi

    Also see the North Carolina A&T Golf Team with the retired NBA players who never played college basketball.

  80. @sayless
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Agree about the cultural effects of the upcoming Greater Depression on our mandated public Conversations, Achmed.

    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for $11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer. And it's only the first of July. There may have been some price gouging on account of the holiday, but still.

    By December, I think a lot of people won't have any attention left available for pronouns and all the rest of that chaff.

    So, Every Hurricane Has A Still Eye At The Center.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for \$11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer.

    That’s an anomaly. I just checked the website of Acme (a division of Albertsons, which also operates as Safeway, Vons, Jewel-Osco, Shaw’s, Tom Thumb, Randalls, United Supermarkets, Pavilions, Star Market, Haggen and Carrs) and a 1 lb. package of hot dogs starts at \$3.19 (turkey franks). For \$3.69 to \$5.00 you get dogs that have a blend of chicken and pork. Starting at \$5.00/lb you can get all beef or beef and pork. \$8.00 to \$11/lb. gets you kosher, uncured and other “fancy” hot dogs. The only ones that were more than \$11/lb. were “organic”.

    Walmart has Oscar Mayers for \$2.48/lb.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oscar-Mayer-Classic-Uncured-Wieners-Hot-Dogs-10-ct-Pack/10292514?athbdg=L1300

    So maybe you need to be shopping at a different supermarket.

    That being said, REAL beef has gotten expensive. Even at WalMart, ribeye or strip steak is \$13/lb. TBH, the less red meat you eat the better, so if this prompts you to switch to poultry or salmon, your heart will thank you. A steak is a great treat but it should be reserved for special occasions and not something you eat every day or even every week.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    I hate eggs but will be the first to admit it's the most and cleanest nutrition you can get for the lowest price (even during Bidenflation) and our ancestry as recently as the 70s relied heavily on eggs, eating them multiple times a day. One of these dark days I will force myself to make and eat an omllette, probably with a great deal of onions and peppers.
    There's a lot of perfectly good, cheap nutrition Americans miss out on because of irrational bigotry toward seafood. Again, our recent ancestry ate a lot more, but then probably didn't enjoy it. Oysters were originally working class food, and lobsters in colonial times were not only fed to servants, but servants successfully imposed a requirement that they not be fed too much lobster.

    , @Stan Adams
    @Jack D

    I used to avoid Walmart like the plague. The one closest to my house was extremely ghetto.

    The last time I went there I saw an elderly white lady ask a black female employee for assistance. The employee said - I am *not* making this up - "I don't help white people." Keep in mind that this was a few years ago - after Ferguson but before Floyd.

    Late last year a new location opened in a somewhat better area about three miles from my home. It's not Saks Fifth Avenue but at least it's not the Camp of the Saints.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @J.Ross

  81. @Anon
    "My guess is that the real story is how under represented Hispanic (especially Mexican-American) are in college sports"

    I once saw a development-league American women's soccer team play a D-league Mexican women's team. The American women were pathetic compared to the Mexicans - sloppy, slow, quick to get angry and, yes, fat. I wonder how much raw Hispanic talent is wasted because women's soccer in America is a white sport. I also wonder how many athletic white women choose not to play soccer because it's a lesbian sport.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

    After my sophomore year my track performance went from great to mediocre on account of a 15 pound weight gain, so I switched to playing soccer in Spring for the remainder of high school to mix things up. Continued doing cross-country because it was still fun being in the middle of the pack and staying in shape, but I couldn’t bear getting out there on the track once I had no shot of winning anymore. Anyway, I had never played soccer formally before that point, but I became one of the best players within weeks of joining the team. Many longtime club soccer players refused to run more than 5-10 seconds and were also prissy and unwilling to get physical/aggressive on top of it. I was actually shocked by how much less competitive than track it was. Soccer just seemed like a rich girls’ club. Not a lot of athleticism.

  82. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Franz

    I'm no science-fiction writer, Franz, but I am betting my ass(ets) on what will stop the Dieversity promotion and pretty much all the rest of the stupidity. That would be the financial SHTF times that are coming. I don't think it'll be one specific event. When things get real, the stupid stops.

    Replies: @sayless, @Franz

    Probably so. As soon as thing August?

    The depressing thing is Biden might be the last president. Low note to go out on.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Franz

    Although I agree with commenter Sayless in general, I don't know about his December, your August, or any other month. I just can't see it all holding together for 2 more years, Franz, though in '11, I would have told you the country wouldn't make it through '15.

    There's the Yogi Berra quote, but I just go by "what can't go on, won't go on", and I know it can't.

  83. @Achmed E. Newman
    @sayless

    $11.99 for 8 hot dogs?! I don't think I've bought any myself in 20 years, Sayless, but a number like 2 or 3 bucks comes to mind, you know for the usual cheap brand - it's all ears, lips, and assholes anyway, but BEEF ears, lips, and assholes, to be Kosher about it...

    Not altogether coincidentally, I wrote a post today that referred to what I call "Inflation by Deflation", the often sneaky decreases in volume or weight of products. "I scream, you scream ..." is, of course, about ice cream. At first glance,, I thought the size of a formerly 8 cup container, then 7, then 6, had gone down more. Nope, I was glad to be wrong for a change.

    Yes, the storm is coming. Hurricane season is upon us too, and trying to figure out the economic season is like Tryin' to reason with hurricane season. (Great Jimmy Buffett song title, but the song is not one of my favorites.)


    By December, I think a lot of people won’t have any attention left available for pronouns and all the rest of that chaff.
     
    Yep, that is my opinion on the matter too.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Ach, WNY’s favorite hot dog, Sahlens is on sale this week ….three pound package…\$9.99.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Buffalo Joe

    I'm seeing deals for those who prepare and pay attention (a lot of bulk packaging and bogof). It's not a 1917 situation yet, but people who automatically buy what they've always bought must be getting skinned.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buffalo Joe

    Thanks, Joe. We'll get a couple of dogs at the baseball game on the 4th. I have no idea what they'll be made of and no spoilers, please!!

    Otherwise, if I'm gonna get the charcoal burning and kill another ... [excuse me, out of tissues] piece of the planet, I'll get a few steaks (yes, Jack, they are getting pretty dear, as they say).

    Speaking of killing the planet, it's been a while since we've heard from this young lady:

    https://www.peakstupidity.com/images/post_1956A.jpg

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  84. Three very prominent black sports figures whose fathers played an instrumental role in creating their careers are: Lewis Hamilton, the Williams sisters and Tiger Woods.

  85. @Stan Adams
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You have not been misinformed.

    One guy I know was getting a lap dance. At one point her crotch was a few inches above his face. A drop of sweat from her lady-bits area fell and landed in his eye.

    He developed a severe infection that almost left him permanently blind in that one eye.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @Achmed E. Newman

    As my mother would say when we kids would want to pick up some interesting object on the sidewalk (a bottle, a dead mouse) “Drop that! You don’t know where it’s been!”

    Strip bar hoo-hah is kind of like gas station sushi: only for the brave.

    • Agree: Stan Adams
  86. @Stan Adams
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I always thought it was ironic that Elizabeth Berkley is known for two roles - the feminist on Saved by the Bell and the stripper in Showgirls.

    High school:

    https://i.ibb.co/zrbnH34/C4296241-A019-426-E-A314-E62-CCF93-D925.jpg

    A few years after high school:

    https://i.ibb.co/wsQ288X/044-AE208-606-E-4686-81-BC-67-F5-F03344-FC.webp

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Truth

    Nice Adams Apple in the first pic.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Truth

    And you got a good look at it, I see:

    https://cache.moviestillsdb.com/i/500x/ndyymtxs/showgirls-lg.jpg

    (That is you, right? You know we crackas have a hard time telling you guys apart...)

    Replies: @Truth

  87. @Buffalo Joe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Ach, WNY's favorite hot dog, Sahlens is on sale this week ....three pound package...$9.99.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m seeing deals for those who prepare and pay attention (a lot of bulk packaging and bogof). It’s not a 1917 situation yet, but people who automatically buy what they’ve always bought must be getting skinned.

  88. @Stan Adams
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You have not been misinformed.

    One guy I know was getting a lap dance. At one point her crotch was a few inches above his face. A drop of sweat from her lady-bits area fell and landed in his eye.

    He developed a severe infection that almost left him permanently blind in that one eye.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @Achmed E. Newman

    That was a crazy story. How do you explain THAT to the ER nurse, much less your fiance?

    Luckily, nothing like that happened to me my friend.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Achmed E. Newman

    "Honey, I forgot to blink!"

    OT (to Steve):

    In gratitude for your tolerance of my constant irrelevant digressions, I check regularly to see if your Jeopardy! episode has turned up. So far no luck. But I have found something interesting. It's Alex Trebek's response to the question, "What are your feelings toward contestants whose buzzers are malfunctioning?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4XNWEZ7JEM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZdCIEqy068

    The episode is out there, somewhere. One day someone will rescue it from a musty old VHS tape and post it on YouTube or Archive.org.

  89. @Buffalo Joe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Ach, WNY's favorite hot dog, Sahlens is on sale this week ....three pound package...$9.99.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks, Joe. We’ll get a couple of dogs at the baseball game on the 4th. I have no idea what they’ll be made of and no spoilers, please!!

    Otherwise, if I’m gonna get the charcoal burning and kill another … [excuse me, out of tissues] piece of the planet, I’ll get a few steaks (yes, Jack, they are getting pretty dear, as they say).

    Speaking of killing the planet, it’s been a while since we’ve heard from this young lady:

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Ach, Sahlen hot dogs are great, and they have the naming rigths at the AAA Baseball Bisons field. Our local supermarket, Dash's, has a steak special every week. They have real butchers, cut to order, but this week's special is Choice boneless NY strip...$9.99 per pound. Last week it was choice ribeye at $9.99 per pound. Whole tenderloin, choice, $14.99 per pound, cut and trimmed for you. Lucky to have them. Enjoy the game.

  90. @Jack D
    @sayless


    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for $11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer.
     
    That's an anomaly. I just checked the website of Acme (a division of Albertsons, which also operates as Safeway, Vons, Jewel-Osco, Shaw’s, Tom Thumb, Randalls, United Supermarkets, Pavilions, Star Market, Haggen and Carrs) and a 1 lb. package of hot dogs starts at $3.19 (turkey franks). For $3.69 to $5.00 you get dogs that have a blend of chicken and pork. Starting at $5.00/lb you can get all beef or beef and pork. $8.00 to $11/lb. gets you kosher, uncured and other "fancy" hot dogs. The only ones that were more than $11/lb. were "organic".

    Walmart has Oscar Mayers for $2.48/lb.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oscar-Mayer-Classic-Uncured-Wieners-Hot-Dogs-10-ct-Pack/10292514?athbdg=L1300

    So maybe you need to be shopping at a different supermarket.

    That being said, REAL beef has gotten expensive. Even at WalMart, ribeye or strip steak is $13/lb. TBH, the less red meat you eat the better, so if this prompts you to switch to poultry or salmon, your heart will thank you. A steak is a great treat but it should be reserved for special occasions and not something you eat every day or even every week.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Stan Adams

    I hate eggs but will be the first to admit it’s the most and cleanest nutrition you can get for the lowest price (even during Bidenflation) and our ancestry as recently as the 70s relied heavily on eggs, eating them multiple times a day. One of these dark days I will force myself to make and eat an omllette, probably with a great deal of onions and peppers.
    There’s a lot of perfectly good, cheap nutrition Americans miss out on because of irrational bigotry toward seafood. Again, our recent ancestry ate a lot more, but then probably didn’t enjoy it. Oysters were originally working class food, and lobsters in colonial times were not only fed to servants, but servants successfully imposed a requirement that they not be fed too much lobster.

  91. @Anonymous
    48% of college womens tennis is non white ? Simply not possible. The best rograms year after year, Standford Florida Duke Vandy etc are virtually all white women.

    Has to be some kind of misprint or fakery for scholarships going on

    Replies: @EddieSpaghetti

    “48% of college womens tennis is non white ? Simply not possible.”

    The “other” catagory in the table includes “people who are not US citizens or nationals.” So, if there are no typos, it is very likely that the 43% of women tennis players who are listed as “other” are mostly white foreigners.

  92. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Stan Adams

    That was a crazy story. How do you explain THAT to the ER nurse, much less your fiance?

    Luckily, nothing like that happened to me my friend.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    “Honey, I forgot to blink!”

    OT (to Steve):

    In gratitude for your tolerance of my constant irrelevant digressions, I check regularly to see if your Jeopardy! episode has turned up. So far no luck. But I have found something interesting. It’s Alex Trebek’s response to the question, “What are your feelings toward contestants whose buzzers are malfunctioning?”

    The episode is out there, somewhere. One day someone will rescue it from a musty old VHS tape and post it on YouTube or Archive.org.

  93. @Jack D
    @sayless


    Today an eight-pack of frankfurters was going for $11.99 at Key Food, and that was the least expensive brand on offer.
     
    That's an anomaly. I just checked the website of Acme (a division of Albertsons, which also operates as Safeway, Vons, Jewel-Osco, Shaw’s, Tom Thumb, Randalls, United Supermarkets, Pavilions, Star Market, Haggen and Carrs) and a 1 lb. package of hot dogs starts at $3.19 (turkey franks). For $3.69 to $5.00 you get dogs that have a blend of chicken and pork. Starting at $5.00/lb you can get all beef or beef and pork. $8.00 to $11/lb. gets you kosher, uncured and other "fancy" hot dogs. The only ones that were more than $11/lb. were "organic".

    Walmart has Oscar Mayers for $2.48/lb.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oscar-Mayer-Classic-Uncured-Wieners-Hot-Dogs-10-ct-Pack/10292514?athbdg=L1300

    So maybe you need to be shopping at a different supermarket.

    That being said, REAL beef has gotten expensive. Even at WalMart, ribeye or strip steak is $13/lb. TBH, the less red meat you eat the better, so if this prompts you to switch to poultry or salmon, your heart will thank you. A steak is a great treat but it should be reserved for special occasions and not something you eat every day or even every week.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Stan Adams

    I used to avoid Walmart like the plague. The one closest to my house was extremely ghetto.

    The last time I went there I saw an elderly white lady ask a black female employee for assistance. The employee said – I am *not* making this up – “I don’t help white people.” Keep in mind that this was a few years ago – after Ferguson but before Floyd.

    Late last year a new location opened in a somewhat better area about three miles from my home. It’s not Saks Fifth Avenue but at least it’s not the Camp of the Saints.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Stan Adams

    I used to avoid Walmart like the plague. The one closest to my house was extremely ghetto.

    The one in the Hispanic end of my town has dirt-brown-tinted cement floors.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    , @J.Ross
    @Stan Adams

    You found somebody who spoke English? I remember I bought a brick of .22lr back when they shot up from $5 to $20, and I did it without communicating except with my hands.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Truth

  94. @Truth
    @Stan Adams

    Nice Adams Apple in the first pic.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    And you got a good look at it, I see:

    (That is you, right? You know we crackas have a hard time telling you guys apart…)

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Stan Adams

    Actually that's Glenn Plummer. I hung out with him a few times, he's about 5'6. He was pretty hot for a while, looked good for his age, then someone found out that he was lying about his age, I don't know why it was an issue, but his career just faded.

    And I think (s)he's black anyway.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @DCThrowback

  95. @Stan Adams
    @Truth

    And you got a good look at it, I see:

    https://cache.moviestillsdb.com/i/500x/ndyymtxs/showgirls-lg.jpg

    (That is you, right? You know we crackas have a hard time telling you guys apart...)

    Replies: @Truth

    Actually that’s Glenn Plummer. I hung out with him a few times, he’s about 5’6. He was pretty hot for a while, looked good for his age, then someone found out that he was lying about his age, I don’t know why it was an issue, but his career just faded.

    And I think (s)he’s black anyway.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Truth

    Interesting. One never knows precisely why one actor makes it really big and another one just fades away.

    She’s Jewish, if anyone cares.

    Replies: @Truth

    , @DCThrowback
    @Truth

    That's not Harold Perrineau? Sheeeeeeeeet.

  96. @Truth
    @Stan Adams

    Actually that's Glenn Plummer. I hung out with him a few times, he's about 5'6. He was pretty hot for a while, looked good for his age, then someone found out that he was lying about his age, I don't know why it was an issue, but his career just faded.

    And I think (s)he's black anyway.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @DCThrowback

    Interesting. One never knows precisely why one actor makes it really big and another one just fades away.

    She’s Jewish, if anyone cares.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Stan Adams


    She’s Jewish, if anyone cares.
     
    Yes, that's the official story.
  97. @Stan Adams
    @Jack D

    I used to avoid Walmart like the plague. The one closest to my house was extremely ghetto.

    The last time I went there I saw an elderly white lady ask a black female employee for assistance. The employee said - I am *not* making this up - "I don't help white people." Keep in mind that this was a few years ago - after Ferguson but before Floyd.

    Late last year a new location opened in a somewhat better area about three miles from my home. It's not Saks Fifth Avenue but at least it's not the Camp of the Saints.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @J.Ross

    I used to avoid Walmart like the plague. The one closest to my house was extremely ghetto.

    The one in the Hispanic end of my town has dirt-brown-tinted cement floors.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Ralph L

    This one is near Zoo Miami. Environmentalists tried to block its construction because the site was one of the last remaining patches of virgin rockland pine forest. But greed won out in the end.

    The floors are a soothing, oh-so-chic blend of shades of gray.



    https://i.ibb.co/cXngN3N/2-E827-EA9-5332-49-BB-B0-B3-BF45284-B8-A7-E.png

  98. Winter Olympics is fun to watch as sort of a fantasy society with mostly white and a few Asian people, just about all attractive and straight outside of a few specific sports.

    The 50th anniversary of title 9 this year made ESPN unwatchable in June. Constant fawning over title 9 and women’s sports, with no mention of all the men’s sports cut. Plus lots of the ubiquitous communist talking point of “we still have a lot of work to do”.

  99. @Franz
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Probably so. As soon as thing August?

    The depressing thing is Biden might be the last president. Low note to go out on.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Although I agree with commenter Sayless in general, I don’t know about his December, your August, or any other month. I just can’t see it all holding together for 2 more years, Franz, though in ’11, I would have told you the country wouldn’t make it through ’15.

    There’s the Yogi Berra quote, but I just go by “what can’t go on, won’t go on”, and I know it can’t.

    • Agree: Franz
  100. @Stan Adams
    @Jack D

    I used to avoid Walmart like the plague. The one closest to my house was extremely ghetto.

    The last time I went there I saw an elderly white lady ask a black female employee for assistance. The employee said - I am *not* making this up - "I don't help white people." Keep in mind that this was a few years ago - after Ferguson but before Floyd.

    Late last year a new location opened in a somewhat better area about three miles from my home. It's not Saks Fifth Avenue but at least it's not the Camp of the Saints.

    Replies: @Ralph L, @J.Ross

    You found somebody who spoke English? I remember I bought a brick of .22lr back when they shot up from \$5 to \$20, and I did it without communicating except with my hands.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @J.Ross


    I did it without communicating except with my hands.
     
    I would like to know, what is the pantomime for .22LR? Do you pretend to shoot a rifle and then flash 10+10+2 with your fingers? Even if the clerk just arrived from Honduras last week, I think he could figure out that ammunition is Ingles for munición, for is por and rifle is reef-lay.

    We live in the internet age. Couldn't you just show them a picture on your phone? Just write ".22LR ammunition" on a piece of paper? Draw a picture of a cartridge?

    I could think of some requests that would be hard to convey for cultural and linguistic reason, (e.g. clerk , where do I find the sex change hormones, please?) but .22LR wouldn't be one of them.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Truth
    @J.Ross


    You found somebody who spoke English? I remember I bought a brick of .22lr back when they shot up from $5 to $20, and I did it without communicating except with my hands.
     
    Yeah... you pulled a 9mm out of your pocket.
  101. @Steve Sailer
    @Jack D

    What's the traditional Olympic fencing power? Hungary?

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Ron Mexico, @Another Canadian, @Jack D, @Dmon

    Harper Chalice is at the cutting edge of Olympic fencing.

    https://harperchalice.com/portfolio/olympics-perimeter-security/

  102. @Stan Adams
    @Truth

    Interesting. One never knows precisely why one actor makes it really big and another one just fades away.

    She’s Jewish, if anyone cares.

    Replies: @Truth

    She’s Jewish, if anyone cares.

    Yes, that’s the official story.

  103. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buffalo Joe

    Thanks, Joe. We'll get a couple of dogs at the baseball game on the 4th. I have no idea what they'll be made of and no spoilers, please!!

    Otherwise, if I'm gonna get the charcoal burning and kill another ... [excuse me, out of tissues] piece of the planet, I'll get a few steaks (yes, Jack, they are getting pretty dear, as they say).

    Speaking of killing the planet, it's been a while since we've heard from this young lady:

    https://www.peakstupidity.com/images/post_1956A.jpg

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Ach, Sahlen hot dogs are great, and they have the naming rigths at the AAA Baseball Bisons field. Our local supermarket, Dash’s, has a steak special every week. They have real butchers, cut to order, but this week’s special is Choice boneless NY strip…\$9.99 per pound. Last week it was choice ribeye at \$9.99 per pound. Whole tenderloin, choice, \$14.99 per pound, cut and trimmed for you. Lucky to have them. Enjoy the game.

  104. @J.Ross
    @Stan Adams

    You found somebody who spoke English? I remember I bought a brick of .22lr back when they shot up from $5 to $20, and I did it without communicating except with my hands.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Truth

    I did it without communicating except with my hands.

    I would like to know, what is the pantomime for .22LR? Do you pretend to shoot a rifle and then flash 10+10+2 with your fingers? Even if the clerk just arrived from Honduras last week, I think he could figure out that ammunition is Ingles for munición, for is por and rifle is reef-lay.

    We live in the internet age. Couldn’t you just show them a picture on your phone? Just write “.22LR ammunition” on a piece of paper? Draw a picture of a cartridge?

    I could think of some requests that would be hard to convey for cultural and linguistic reason, (e.g. clerk , where do I find the sex change hormones, please?) but .22LR wouldn’t be one of them.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jack D

    Or you point at it.

  105. @Ralph L
    @Stan Adams

    I used to avoid Walmart like the plague. The one closest to my house was extremely ghetto.

    The one in the Hispanic end of my town has dirt-brown-tinted cement floors.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    This one is near Zoo Miami. Environmentalists tried to block its construction because the site was one of the last remaining patches of virgin rockland pine forest. But greed won out in the end.

    The floors are a soothing, oh-so-chic blend of shades of gray.

    [MORE]

  106. @Jack D
    @J.Ross


    I did it without communicating except with my hands.
     
    I would like to know, what is the pantomime for .22LR? Do you pretend to shoot a rifle and then flash 10+10+2 with your fingers? Even if the clerk just arrived from Honduras last week, I think he could figure out that ammunition is Ingles for munición, for is por and rifle is reef-lay.

    We live in the internet age. Couldn't you just show them a picture on your phone? Just write ".22LR ammunition" on a piece of paper? Draw a picture of a cartridge?

    I could think of some requests that would be hard to convey for cultural and linguistic reason, (e.g. clerk , where do I find the sex change hormones, please?) but .22LR wouldn't be one of them.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Or you point at it.

  107. @J.Ross
    @Stan Adams

    You found somebody who spoke English? I remember I bought a brick of .22lr back when they shot up from $5 to $20, and I did it without communicating except with my hands.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Truth

    You found somebody who spoke English? I remember I bought a brick of .22lr back when they shot up from \$5 to \$20, and I did it without communicating except with my hands.

    Yeah… you pulled a 9mm out of your pocket.

  108. “Excuse me, Black vs. white.”

    No, “be Lacking vs White”

  109. @Truth
    @Stan Adams

    Actually that's Glenn Plummer. I hung out with him a few times, he's about 5'6. He was pretty hot for a while, looked good for his age, then someone found out that he was lying about his age, I don't know why it was an issue, but his career just faded.

    And I think (s)he's black anyway.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @DCThrowback

    That’s not Harold Perrineau? Sheeeeeeeeet.

  110. Fencing is *very* G-loaded. It is a sport where you constantly have to try to outwit your opponent, and your coach cannot help you during the match. The latter in contrast to american football, in which you as a competitor can make do with the much less G-loaded activity of doing as you were told by your coach a minute ago. Also, you cannot simply overpower your opponent with power (as in wrestling) or pain (as in boxing). That makes it quite unusual among combat sports. There is nothing similar to knockout in fencing, so you cannot just be lucky once – you have to score several times. All that while constantly hopping up and down, interspersed with short sprints.

    People who cannot get good grades cannot fence either. If one is at a reasonably big senior event, and hear what people work as, that point will be driven home.

    A significant part of US. universities/colleges that have fencing as a varsity sport only have it for women, while men´s fencing has club status. Title IX, combined with masses of scholarships earmarked for american football, are the reason for that.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Sword

    I was pretty good at fencing the one time I tried it in 1977.

    I bought my parents tickets to fencing finals at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. The organizers made it particularly dramatic looking with competitors wearing tuxedos and white gloves against a black velvet curtain. My folks enjoyed it.

  111. @Sword
    Fencing is *very* G-loaded. It is a sport where you constantly have to try to outwit your opponent, and your coach cannot help you during the match. The latter in contrast to american football, in which you as a competitor can make do with the much less G-loaded activity of doing as you were told by your coach a minute ago. Also, you cannot simply overpower your opponent with power (as in wrestling) or pain (as in boxing). That makes it quite unusual among combat sports. There is nothing similar to knockout in fencing, so you cannot just be lucky once - you have to score several times. All that while constantly hopping up and down, interspersed with short sprints.

    People who cannot get good grades cannot fence either. If one is at a reasonably big senior event, and hear what people work as, that point will be driven home.

    A significant part of US. universities/colleges that have fencing as a varsity sport only have it for women, while men´s fencing has club status. Title IX, combined with masses of scholarships earmarked for american football, are the reason for that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I was pretty good at fencing the one time I tried it in 1977.

    I bought my parents tickets to fencing finals at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. The organizers made it particularly dramatic looking with competitors wearing tuxedos and white gloves against a black velvet curtain. My folks enjoyed it.

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