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From Slate:
Researchers may soon isolate the genetic roots of homosexuality. As a scientist, that excites me. But as a gay man, I worry about what might happen next.
By JEREMY YODERJUNE 18, 20195:50 AM
… Last year, a team working with very large datasets from the U.K. Biobank and the “personal genomics” company 23andMe reported, at two different conferences, that they’ve identified about 40 genes at which different variants are associated with differences in orientation. Adding up the effects of many more genes into “polygenic scores” accounted for up to 20 percent of variation in sexual orientation—not the full genetic effect seen in twin studies, but not nothing. The collaborators haven’t published a formal peer-reviewed article yet, but it looks likely that the final, fully reported project will be solid work.
Interesting.
I think this is for homosexual males, not females.
J. Michael Bailey’s study of Australian twins in the 1990s found about 20-25% concordance, which is both higher than random chance but not really all that high either.
It will be interesting what other traits male homosexuality’s gene patterns will be similar to.
Bestiality.
Do you mean 20 percent or 0.2, which is 14 percent (you square it, 0.2 x 0.2)?
At any rate, you’re right, the genetic correlation is there, but it’s weak. Most traits are in the 0.4 to 0.5 range of heritability. A few, like body weight, are higher, BW at 0.7, 0.8 for adults. Some, like left-handedness, and gayness. are lower.
I’ve read that the lower ones may not be quite as strictly heritable so much as they set you up in a way that if various post-genomic, post-mitosis mutations or “Waddington valley” chances occur during fetal development or very early childhood you veer into being gay, or left handed.
Among proponents of the right to abortion, there are still many rather naive people who assume that women’s “choice” is all that matters and beyond that the right to kill fetuses can never be misused. The virtual eradication of mongoloids, well, that doesn’t disturb too many feminists because, let’s face it, it is really convenient. The elimination of female fetuses in some Asian countries doesn’t fit comfortably with the usual women’s-rights rhetoric, but those countries are so far away. But the potential for in utero nullification of homosexual children-to-be? Maybe that might jar some of the wokiest people into a reconsideration of abortion.
I see that Michael Bailey is participating in a conference that looks like a sort of satellite Intellectual Dark Web get together. I think we can propose a companion to O’Sullivan’s Law: All individuals who are not perfectly woke will over time end up associating only with the right wing, even if they do not characterize themselves as such (because they are shunned by the woke and the right wing are the only people who will give them a platform and treat them like humans).
i believe humans have some kind of imprinting for seuxal gratification and arousal. I believe the first or first few such experiences determine what a pubescent boy will seek to repeat. for this reason, adult homosexuals groom pubescent boys of certain types. my guess is the traits are there–uaing bug 5 terminology, they involve low disgust (or high tolerance for things others find disgusting), high neuroticism, relatively high conscientitousness, etc. these traits are recognizable by the adult, but it take the stimulation of the seuxal activity to set off the chain reaction.
i think that explains the not-very-high correlation that’s higher than random.
2043 –
European parliament votes mandatory homo-gene implantation for all newly conceived children in name of diversity and LGBTQWFKSJS rights .
I think with females, as is with other things- it will be different….
*test*
-not sure did unz eat my comment,or this is how it works,don’t publish this one,just checking-
“But as a gay man, I worry about what might happen next.”
I wonder what he might worry about? That homosexuals might a quire even more political and social power than they have now?
That homosexual scientists will figure out how to engineer even more homosexual males, so guys like this will have an endless supply of twinks?
Its great news for parents who want choice about aborting homosexual children.
Ask Butt Edge if he supports a womans’s right to abort gay fetuses. What other traits and behaviors abilities are genetically heritable ? Naturally they must vary by ancestry groups exposed to different evolutionary forces.
Science is good.
Has the Australian twins study been replicated or followed up on? I wonder if some were still “in the closet” at the time?
We know environmental factors can contribute (e.g. sexual abuse), but I would be surprised if there wasn’t a significant genetic factor, as well. At least a contributing factor anyways.
Believe it or not, there are many more explanations for homosexuality than just the ‘gay germ’. Dutton has many that I hadn’t heard before – unfortunately my memory is junk.
Semi-related, but has anyone asked the left lately on whether once abortion is legal at any stage of pregnancy if it’s OK for the mother (my body, my choice!) to abort based on gender or sexual orientation of the fetus?
Philip K. Dick wrote a short story about a dystopian not-too-distance future in which mothers had the option of terminating their children up to the age of 13.Replies: @Olorin
Sex selective abortion is mostly a south, maybe east Asian thing. Most “people of color” in the US are black or brown. So far feminists seem to view sex selective abortion as just some thing pro-lifers blather about as an excuse to restrict abortion.
Martina Navratilova gets re-educated.
Martina is very supportive of the inclusion of trans women in amateur sports, but she is concerned about the possible physical advantages that trans women may have over female athletes in competitions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00069nr
When I was young, it was fashionable to explain male homosexuality by genetics. Then it became unpopular – and now it is on the rise again, above all in LGBTQ circles.
My objection: Every little boy is excited by being around a strapping young male. Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him – and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies. And there is nothing more reinforcing (in the sense of classical behaviourism) than an orgasm.
So the genetical difference is about masculinity/effeteness, whereas the rest (sexual orientation) can be explained merely by behaviourism.
Speak for yourself! Are you gay?
"Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him – and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies."
What about the boys in the middle?
You're projecting.
Homosexuality is the result of nutritional deficiencies on the part of the parents during conception and gestation… and of course mostly the mother.
Dr Pottenger induced homosexuality in the offspring of poorly fed cats.
Have we seen a rise in homosexuality in “decadent eras”? That may not be entirely a moral phenomenon but also a typical degradation of diet of those eras, leading to nutritional degeneration.
https://www.scribd.com/document/60700924/Pottenger-Cat-Study
Also see the magnum opus of Dr. Price:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/544354.Nutrition_and_Physical_Degeneration
Male homosexuality is caused by an unknown in utero virus or a virus picked up during male adolescence. When we discover the virus, we can vaccinate against it like smallpox. That is the real threat to gayness.
I believe the answer you get to that question is “Reeeeeeeeeee!”.
In India they already abort females en masse…abortion is an industry in India to avoid paying the dowry when daughters marry. It’s getting better….apparently.
Queens new DA is a Soros stooge who won’t prosecute crimes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottMGreer/status/1143721735587598336
The babe who won is a public defender backed by Soros. She cited a case of "police brutality" where a cop shot a guy -after- the guy took an iron bar to the cop's face which required 60+ stitches.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/politics/elections/incumbent-top-prosecutors-fall-in-virginia-primary-amid-calls-for-criminal-justice-reform/65-c7a81328-cb45-4dad-89c8-3397f633473f
And this time I doubt there’s enough white voters left to elect a Giuliani to the rescue.
Twin concordance for alcoholism is more like 50% as an example
OT: could the rituals of orthodox judaism effectively attune individuals’ immune systems to the group as a whole, to strengthen them collectively? might they similarly seek approaches that undermine other groups’ immune systems? eg western literature has been a source of strength and security, now being undermined…
No.
The articles author actually suggests that gays indirectly contribute to reproduction by helping raise the children of straight family members.
Guy is really reaching to explain some sort of benefit that homosexuality may lend to humanity. Being a genetic dead end must create a lot of existential angst.
GWAS will probably support the current scientific hypothesis, which is that homosexuality is related to the same group of alleles that are responsible for promiscuity, peacocking and male "prettiness", which are normally an advantage without the homosexuality, but degenerate into homosexuality with certain environmental triggers.
Twin studies are good at finding very strongly heritable traits, but if homosexuality itself is not a heritable trait, but rather the expression of a heritable trait in some specific environment, then twin studies will only find weak associations. But what GWAS will hopefully tell us is that nearly all homosexuals share certain alleles, which exist but at a much lower frequency in the heterosexual population (like say 90% for homos, 50% for heteros).
Time will tell, but if the above is what we see, then it will not only explain the actual apparent recent rise in homosexuality, but indicate that it is a potentially preventable and/or treatable condition.
You don’t have to ask permission from those mongrel freaks. Abort at will.
I think that level of concordance is for identical twins. It’s lower for fraternal twins.
Jeffrey Satinover offered a hypothesis about 15 years ago that male homosexuality itself is not heritable, but that certain psychological traits are to a greater or lesser degree and that these are soil for homosexuality. He mentioned anxiety, intelligence, aestheticism, and one other.
Concordances are in Table 1. Sample sizes seem fairly small (0-14 positive concordance pairs) so not sure how seriously to take them.That sounds like weaseling (from Satinover, not you) to me. Let's look a little closer. From https://concernedwomen.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdfI think anyone who invokes the "genetically determined" strawman is not to be taken very seriously.Replies: @Art Deco
I don’t find Cochran’s germ theory convincing. We have exactly one example of a germ having complex behavioral effects in human beings, and its effects are subtle (e.g. slightly worse driving) and nothing as dramatic, complicated or consistent as completely inverting sexual desire.
Homosexuality has two distinct parts: removing desire for one sex and creating it for another. Otherwise you’d have a asexual or bisexual.Replies: @Valentino, @Anon, @gcochran
Good point. Yes, the feminists are always uncharacteristically quiet when it comes to topics that force them to visit the crazy aunt in the attic of their ideology; things like industrial-scale gender-selected abortion in Asia, or how women are treated under Sharia Law.
Philip K. Dick wrote a short story about a dystopian not-too-distance future in which mothers had the option of terminating their children up to the age of 13.
Is there a gene for a predilection for lavender or peach colored drapes?
It’s always amused me (well, since I learned of it) that Texas requires a license for interior decorators, lest some poor soul suffer the senseless tragedy of mis-matched hues.
Where is John Wayne when we need him?
I see the guys who clean exploded heads off the street have hired a lobbyist.
Someone did a GWAS of age at first sexual intercourse.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5238953/
AFAIK nobody has done one for divorce yet.
Let the Mystery Be
Jeffrey Satinover offered a hypothesis about 15 years ago that male homosexuality itself is not heritable, but that certain psychological traits are to a greater or lesser degree and that these are soil for homosexuality. He mentioned anxiety, intelligence, aestheticism, and one other.Replies: @Anon, @res, @Lot
Paglia concurs, which is good enough for me: settled science.
This is unrelated, but for possible use for a future blog post. From the Washington Post: “A mother reported a teen bully for racially taunting her son. Then he beat her unconscious, police say.”
It’s the third “most read” story today. The victim is Hispanic. You don’t find out until the 14th paragraph that “the 13-year-old suspect is African-American.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/26/mother-teen-bully-assault-mexico/?tid=pm_pop
White alone 14.7%
Black alone 8%
Asian alone 3.1%https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/lawyer-nj-mom-knocked-out-by-school-bully-is-filing-a-notice-to-sue-the-district-this-week.htmlReplies: @ATBOTL, @william munny, @Anon
You don't find out but you knew.
See your mompuncher and raise you evolution in action.
Aztec's lust blocked, so he shoots the rejecting party's baby. Literally alpha: "if my genes don't continue, nobody's will."https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/She-rejected-a-man-at-a-party-Then-he-shot-her-14044305.php
If it's #2o, I don't know how gifted & talented the students would be.
I thinks this is a case of making the little tykes feel good about themselves.
Even if most are too dumb to know how dumb they actually are.
As one of the guys who hypothesized a sexually transmitted pathogen as a contributing factor back even before Gregory Cochran did, I would be most interested in the intersection between immune-related genes and those identified in this study. Also, there is strong evidence from primate studies that hormones can be altered by social interactions. In the modern era we have relentless “social interactions” from an authoritative member of the family otherwise known as a “TV screen”. He tells the rest of the family that fathers are imbeciles, among other blasphemies against the environment of evolutionary adaptedness (that certainly varied between human populations) — with no possibility of the father of the family doing anything about it since the family is addicted to the “authority” in their family.
I think an amateur could do this by looking where the various genes are located and seeing what else those areas code for. The IQ GWAS studies usually have a section “and the genes we identified are mostly associated with regions that code for the brain” or sometimes even more specific.
Googling the name provided of particular genes you read about in studies can have interesting results.
Well, any sane society will have exceptions, and we will tell you what they are once we figure out what pisses us off most!
I always found it interesting how the left, who pride themselves on being the “pro-science” side of politics, simultaneously try to promote that homosexuality is 100% nature and intelligence is 100% nurture. Of course, everything is some extent nature AND some extent nurture. Even more ridiculous in these cases, though, is the fact that all evidence suggests that homosexuality is more nurture than nature, and intelligence is more nature than nurture. So there overstatements of cause aren’t even in the right direction.
That would be a great question for the “journalists” of tonight’s debate to ask the participants. Odds of it happening? Zero.
Could the genetic predisposition for a Lisp be associated?
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41188560
Some may later affect it (I kind of doubt it but whatever--maybe some do) but it certainly shows up in childhood. david sedaris eg wrote about getting speech therapy as a young child for his gay lisp.
Technology Review’s take: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611946/genes-linked-to-being-gay-may-help-straight-people-get-more-sex/
Here is the presentation program (has anyone seen the paper itself?): http://programme.exordo.com/bga18/delegates/presentation/16/
Abstract:
Note that only four loci were found for NHB. The other 41 were for NSP. It is interesting that with only four loci found they still found a “shared genetic component between NHB and risk-taking (P = 5.1×10-9) and substance use (e.g., cannabis use, P = 3.6×10-6).”
P.S. Here is a paper which also looked at NSP:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/261081v2
They found 118 lead SNPs (compare 41). A Manhattan plot of these is in Extended Data Figure 3.1e
James Thompson wrote about this paper last year: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/risky-subjects/
Four genes linked to homosexuality with offsetting benefits large enough to be common enough to identify.
The rest, random mutations without such benefits, or else with benefits that are not offsetting.
Yoder is a common Amish name. This guy puts the Men– in Mennonite.
So…..LOL!
Gays seem to be better-looking on average than straight men, and maybe even a bit smarter. The opposite is probably true for lesbians vs. straight women.
This alone presents a great reason not to "vaccinate the gay away." Doing so would mean that much more competition for straight men. If the gay guys I knew in college had liked girls, a lot of straight guys wouldn't have done nearly as well.
I have a very specific college memory of this V-shaped, tanned, buffed Adonis on campus who all the girls swooned over. When my friends and I found out he was gay (and dating a punk rock friend of ours, no less) we practically threw a party in celebration. The anti-gay crew really need to think of the ramifications of what life would be like if gay guys became straight.
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.Replies: @Flip, @nobodyofnowhere, @BB753, @Half Canadian, @Anonymous, @kaganovitch
Jeffrey Satinover offered a hypothesis about 15 years ago that male homosexuality itself is not heritable, but that certain psychological traits are to a greater or lesser degree and that these are soil for homosexuality. He mentioned anxiety, intelligence, aestheticism, and one other.Replies: @Anon, @res, @Lot
Correct. Here is Bailey’s paper: http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/Publications/Bailey%20et%20al.%20twins,2000.pdf
Concordances are in Table 1. Sample sizes seem fairly small (0-14 positive concordance pairs) so not sure how seriously to take them.
That sounds like weaseling (from Satinover, not you) to me. Let’s look a little closer. From https://concernedwomen.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf
I think anyone who invokes the “genetically determined” strawman is not to be taken very seriously.
Because reasons. Been an education.Replies: @res
If memory serves, a Turkish psychiatrist’s interest was piqued when he noticed in his practice a correlation between gay children and mothers who had thyroid disorders so he researched a bit more and produced a couple of studies:
1) “High Rates of Same-Sex Attraction/Gender Nonconformity in the Offspring of Mothers with Thyroid Dysfunction During Pregnancy: Proposal of Prenatal Thyroid Model ”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620281/
2) “Towards a further understanding of prenatal thyroid theory of homosexuality: Autoimmune thyroiditis, polycystic ovary syndrome, autism and low birth weight”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5661141/
I remembered that Sanders’ team at Northwestern also found a possible correlation between a gene known for thyroid function AND so did 23 and Me’s first collection of data from gay folks (the results of which I can’t seem to find right now.)
Sanders: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29217827 (“On chromosome 14, TSHR genetic variants in intron 1 could conceivably help explain past findings relating familial atypical thyroid function and male homosexuality. Furthermore, skewed X chromosome inactivation has been found in the thyroid condition, Graves’ disease, as well as in mothers of homosexual men.”
So, GWAStudies are not the gold standard but it wouldn’t really be surprising if the thyroid were involved in the cause of homosexuality so important (and as yet mysterious) it is to vital systems AND how susceptible it might be to attack by pathogens. Cochran’s “gay germ” theory and the thyroid?
It’s also been noted by researchers that there IS evidence of homosexuality clustering in some families, although not in most. If there is a gene(s) linked to homosexuality in these unusual families and if researchers could isolate it, identify its function, then that might lead to understanding how homosexuality results in others w/out such a gene.
For instance, as Cochran has explained, there IS a gene variation in a small % of folks that does result in narcolepsy but most people with narcolepsy do NOT have such a gene. Still, knowledge of that helped researchers understand that people with narcolepsy lack a sufficient production of hypocretin by a very few number of brain cells responsible for its production.
You want a locus for homosexual behavior? Look into how many homosexuals were molested as a youth by another homosexual. Its damn near 1 as far as relevance goes.
High verbal intelligence and an affinity for pedigree dogs, no doubt.
Concordances are in Table 1. Sample sizes seem fairly small (0-14 positive concordance pairs) so not sure how seriously to take them.That sounds like weaseling (from Satinover, not you) to me. Let's look a little closer. From https://concernedwomen.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdfI think anyone who invokes the "genetically determined" strawman is not to be taken very seriously.Replies: @Art Deco
I think anyone who invokes the “genetically determined” strawman is not to be taken very seriously.
Because reasons. Been an education.
I stand by my statement: I think anyone who invokes the “genetically determined” strawman is not to be taken very seriously.
If you disagree in Satinover's case, please back it up.
Jeffrey Satinover offered a hypothesis about 15 years ago that male homosexuality itself is not heritable, but that certain psychological traits are to a greater or lesser degree and that these are soil for homosexuality. He mentioned anxiety, intelligence, aestheticism, and one other.Replies: @Anon, @res, @Lot
I think this is part of it, but another large part is multicausal/rare random mutation as with schizophrenia.
I don’t find Cochran’s germ theory convincing. We have exactly one example of a germ having complex behavioral effects in human beings, and its effects are subtle (e.g. slightly worse driving) and nothing as dramatic, complicated or consistent as completely inverting sexual desire.
Homosexuality has two distinct parts: removing desire for one sex and creating it for another. Otherwise you’d have a asexual or bisexual.
Because genetics has an aroma of badthink in academia, and because psychologists are siloed away from biology research, this stuff has not filtered down into standard psychological knowledge and practice, but the research is quite solid.Replies: @gcochran
Here is the presentation program (has anyone seen the paper itself?): http://programme.exordo.com/bga18/delegates/presentation/16/
Abstract:Note that only four loci were found for NHB. The other 41 were for NSP. It is interesting that with only four loci found they still found a "shared genetic component between NHB and risk-taking (P = 5.1x10-9) and substance use (e.g., cannabis use, P = 3.6x10-6)."
P.S. Here is a paper which also looked at NSP:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/261081v2
They found 118 lead SNPs (compare 41). A Manhattan plot of these is in Extended Data Figure 3.1e
James Thompson wrote about this paper last year: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/risky-subjects/Replies: @Lot
“Note that only four loci were found for NHB.”
Four genes linked to homosexuality with offsetting benefits large enough to be common enough to identify.
The rest, random mutations without such benefits, or else with benefits that are not offsetting.
I thought that innate homosexuality was caused by embryonic issues rather than genetic differences? Not an expert on this.
Rons’ LOL button is broken!
So…..LOL!
“Gays seem to be better-looking on average than straight men, and maybe even a bit smarter.”
This alone presents a great reason not to “vaccinate the gay away.” Doing so would mean that much more competition for straight men. If the gay guys I knew in college had liked girls, a lot of straight guys wouldn’t have done nearly as well.
I have a very specific college memory of this V-shaped, tanned, buffed Adonis on campus who all the girls swooned over. When my friends and I found out he was gay (and dating a punk rock friend of ours, no less) we practically threw a party in celebration. The anti-gay crew really need to think of the ramifications of what life would be like if gay guys became straight.
The idea of genetically transmitted male homosexuality seems a bit ridiculous on one level. I mean, a gene that takes away its bearer’s desire to procreate with the opposite sex should naturally be removed from the gene pool in short order. In terms of its natural selection effect, “gayness” is essentially equivalent to a fatal genetic disease.
For the “gay gene” itself to have survival value it would therefore have to be like Tay-Sachs or Sickle Cell, where having just one copy confers some substantial benefit that outweighs the detrimental effect that occurs when two copies are present.
But there is no gene for Morrissey.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/9/3/1283529634767/Morrissey-001.jpg
It's the third "most read" story today. The victim is Hispanic. You don't find out until the 14th paragraph that "the 13-year-old suspect is African-American."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/26/mother-teen-bully-assault-mexico/?tid=pm_popReplies: @CCZ, @J.Ross, @Jus' Sayin'..., @anon, @Zedrick
Surprise, Surprise, number of news articles / outlets other than WaPo mentioning that the arrested attacker was “African American”: ZERO (O)
Attack happened in vibrant Passaic NJ.
Hispanic 74.4%
White alone 14.7%
Black alone 8%
Asian alone 3.1%
https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/lawyer-nj-mom-knocked-out-by-school-bully-is-filing-a-notice-to-sue-the-district-this-week.html
Philip K. Dick wrote a short story about a dystopian not-too-distance future in which mothers had the option of terminating their children up to the age of 13.Replies: @Olorin
That wasn’t a “dystopian not-too-distance [sic] future.”
That’s every big-city ER, ICU, and EMT health care provider’s/first responder’s Another Day In Hell workday.
I could tell you about the results of post-birth abortions–sometimes well past age 13–that would keep you from rest for the remainder of your life. Assuming you have a soul.
I don’t know how people get to the age of being able to write comments on the internet while being unaware of such things.
Dishonest. Or perhaps more accurately an engineered division-creating talking point.
In the years where I knew feminists (large universities), most of them talked about this topic. The smarter ones came to “feminism” recognizing that late 19th/early 20th century immigration led for degenerate/unevolved cheap-labor/tractable-voting-base immigrant males being put in positions of power over founding stock American women of considerably better potential. This is why my very conservative paternal grandmother supported votes for women–so her family wouldn’t be outvoted by low IQ turbobreeders.
Granted, those men’s granddaughters are attending “pussy marches” and “slut walks.” My grandfathers’ granddaughters most certainly are not.
That’s not something that today’s fashionable misogynists comprehend. To them we have so much excellence we can afford to discard it if it appears in the form of our daughters.
What I observed in talking to honest, intelligent Second Wave feminists was a sort of incipient, underlying, still very undeveloped sense of HBD…though some were very strong nativists and eugenicists. That was sometimes coupled with discussion that was way too general to get at any engineered-division-creating-talking-point-type specificities. But for you to claim a global “quiet” on this topic is a lie.
But hey, you lot have been flogging the abortion nag for 35 years for electoral manipulation, so I doubt you’re going to stop anytime soon.
Totally – also, this is the one area where there is a ‘disparate impact’ and the left doesn’t give a damn.
I’ve come to notice that with quite a few lesbians I know personally, their dads were fucking assholes, expressed one way or another, with a military consistency. Not all, but at least 50%.
All girls I’ve known with horrific dads are either sexually promiscuous, lesbians, or both.
Woke Gay Google employees demand more YouTube censorship.
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/6/26/18758741/google-lgbtq-employees-sf-pride-removal-celebrations-san-francisco
For the "gay gene" itself to have survival value it would therefore have to be like Tay-Sachs or Sickle Cell, where having just one copy confers some substantial benefit that outweighs the detrimental effect that occurs when two copies are present.Replies: @Lot, @J.Ross
The article isn’t about a gene that makes someone gay, but genes that makes someone slightly more likely to be so.
If you really want to do some major league trolling, start thanking the young women on the street asking for donations for Planned Parenthood for keeping the black population down.
Martina is very supportive of the inclusion of trans women in amateur sports, but she is concerned about the possible physical advantages that trans women may have over female athletes in competitions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00069nrReplies: @Barnard
I am not going to watch this, but will admit to being curious what Martina’s testosterone levels read at when she had them tested. Granted, she probably hasn’t been doping since she retired from doubles in 2006. Are there any long term effects that would show up in the test?
It's the third "most read" story today. The victim is Hispanic. You don't find out until the 14th paragraph that "the 13-year-old suspect is African-American."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/26/mother-teen-bully-assault-mexico/?tid=pm_popReplies: @CCZ, @J.Ross, @Jus' Sayin'..., @anon, @Zedrick
>you don’t find out until
You don’t find out but you knew.
See your mompuncher and raise you evolution in action.
Aztec’s lust blocked, so he shoots the rejecting party’s baby. Literally alpha: “if my genes don’t continue, nobody’s will.”
https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/She-rejected-a-man-at-a-party-Then-he-shot-her-14044305.php
“I would be most interested in the intersection between immune-related genes and those identified in this study”
I think an amateur could do this by looking where the various genes are located and seeing what else those areas code for. The IQ GWAS studies usually have a section “and the genes we identified are mostly associated with regions that code for the brain” or sometimes even more specific.
Googling the name provided of particular genes you read about in studies can have interesting results.
For the "gay gene" itself to have survival value it would therefore have to be like Tay-Sachs or Sickle Cell, where having just one copy confers some substantial benefit that outweighs the detrimental effect that occurs when two copies are present.Replies: @Lot, @J.Ross
A disposition to sensuality and/or submission (either might be advantages in some situations), which is activated and made more and more aberrant by life experience (like childhood abuse), makes sense.
But there is no gene for Morrissey.
White alone 14.7%
Black alone 8%
Asian alone 3.1%https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/lawyer-nj-mom-knocked-out-by-school-bully-is-filing-a-notice-to-sue-the-district-this-week.htmlReplies: @ATBOTL, @william munny, @Anon
The whites in Passaic are almost entirely Orthodox Jews, they live on the southern edge of town in an area with single family houses. Passaic is heavily Mexican as opposed to the Caribbean Hispanics who are the majority in the NYC area.
Because reasons. Been an education.Replies: @res
Could you elaborate? IMHO a big part of life is finding heuristics that help determine who is worth listening to (especially in SJW infested topics like this). Another big part of life is being open to good counterarguments. Do you have anything that indicates Satinover has anything useful to say about heritability?
I stand by my statement: I think anyone who invokes the “genetically determined” strawman is not to be taken very seriously.
If you disagree in Satinover’s case, please back it up.
“Gays seem to be better-looking on average than straight men, and maybe even a bit smarter.”
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMEHy39ANAQReplies: @Reg Cæsar
I don’t have thirty minutes to hear this through. Does he get around to my pet theory– that in most cultures, queers have to marry and breed like everyone else? And they have more kids, because nothing gets you out of the hated sex act like pregnancy.
The whole modern homosexual lifestyle is very decadent and only possible when your basic material needs are more than met. Much like feminism, it is a luxury that brutish survival conditions don’t allow.
I think that homophobia creates conditions that perversely lead to more homos being born.
I think there is some genetic component to being a homo. So in those ultra-conservative Muslim cultures, all homos are pressured into pretending to be straight, getting a straight marriage, and having straight sex even though they would rather not do it.
So places in the Middle East probably have more homos per capita than progressive Western culturess.
Men have a slightly higher average IQs than women, however relative to brain weight, women have much higher IQs. Could a partial feminization of the larger male brain produce a “best of both worlds” situation that boosts IQ?
Is there anything more progressive than seeing a homeless child and wanting him to die in pain?
https://www.thecollegefix.com/black-suny-prof-seeing-poor-white-people-makes-me-happy/
OT: it appears the media has found another tear jerker photo to prove borders are racist or whatever. Is there nothing else in their playbook?
I think that’s a distinction without a difference from a natural selection point of view. The extent to which a gene leads to homosexuality and non-reproduction is the extent to which it has negative survival value. So one still has to posit a reason that a gene that “makes someone slightly more likely to be [gay]” hasn’t been removed from the pool over time.
But until they actually figure out the biological mechanism(s) that determine sexual preference I suppose it’s all just speculation, anyway.
Indeed. Compare with: https://infogalactic.com/info/Skoptsy
Could the genetic predisposition for a Lisp be associated?Replies: @Prof. Woland, @anonymous
AI combined with facial recognition will be another factor in sorting the who from whom. And it is only going to get better.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41188560
I don’t find Cochran’s germ theory convincing. We have exactly one example of a germ having complex behavioral effects in human beings, and its effects are subtle (e.g. slightly worse driving) and nothing as dramatic, complicated or consistent as completely inverting sexual desire.
Homosexuality has two distinct parts: removing desire for one sex and creating it for another. Otherwise you’d have a asexual or bisexual.Replies: @Valentino, @Anon, @gcochran
Perhaps, homosexuality is a continuous phenomenon, not a discrete one. People that have more or stronger factors are inclined to be exclusive homosexuals, people that have fewer or weaker homosexual factors, are inclined to be bisexuals.
Without discussing anything that I have or have not done, or what label I attach to anything, I can tell you that I am very much attracted to a certain kind of man. The vast majority of men do nothing for me, but I have a definite "type."
When I was in high school, there was a guy I knew who played on the football team. We never really talked one-on-one, but I saw him around all the time. He had a German last name - he wasn't Jewish - and the looks to match - tall, muscular, broad shoulders tapering down to a trim waist, blond hair, blue eyes, square jaw. He wasn't very smart - honestly, he was a stereotypical "dumb jock" - but he radiated confidence and cockiness and masculinity. The popular girls swarmed around him like moths drawn to a flame.
His girlfriend was one of those high-maintenance blonde types. They used to fight a lot.
(One time, while walking through the senior parking lot, I saw the two of them screaming at each other. He was yelling at her. I found myself wishing that they would break up then and there. "Whatever you did, bitch, you deserve it," I thought to myself.)
My feelings toward him were ambivalent. I admired him, even idolized him. But I really hated him, because I was insanely jealous of his body and his face. But I realized even then that much of my hatred was due to the fact that he would never look at me the way he looked at his girlfriend.
Judging by the way he talked about "fags," I surmised (probably correctly) that he would beat the shit out of me if he ever found out how I really felt about him. We were about the same height, and I weighed more than him, but I was fat and he was fit and he would have wiped the floor with me.
We graduated. I attended a four-year university in the same area where I grew up. I still lived with my mother, so I ended up going to the same stores and restaurants that I had always patronized.
About a year after my high-school graduation, I stopped at a popular local barbecue spot to pick up a phone order. I got out of the car and then - suddenly, shockingly - there he was, standing a few feet away from me, just chilling out. If anything, his physique was even more impressive than it had been during his playing days. I found myself staring at him until he shot me a wary glance - as if to say, "What are *you* looking at?" Then someone came out of the back entrance and asked him a question, and I realized that he was working there. He went back inside.
I went inside to pick up my order, but I didn't see him again. The next few times I went to that place, I didn't see him.
About a year after that, I went to another restaurant - a sports bar - for lunch. I sat down at my table, looked over the menu, and then glanced up at the waiter to see ... him. Standing not two feet away from me, asking me for my drink order.
I'm rarely left speechless by anyone or anything, but I could barely manage to stammer out that I just wanted some water.
By the time he came back, I had recovered enough to make a little light conversation.
After ordering my burger, I said, "You're [that guy], aren't you? I remember you from high school."
He smiled - he had a dazzling smile - and said, "Hey, yeah, I remember you! [Stan], right? How you doin'?"
"Fine," I said. "I thought I saw you one day working at [the barbecue place]."
"Yeah, I was a manager there for a while. But I make a lot more money as a server here. Especially on Friday and Saturday night."
That was the general tone of our conversation. He had nothing terribly profound to say, but he was so good-looking and charismatic that I could have listened to him reading the phone book out loud. I had no doubt that many customers - especially women - left him very generous tips. (Certainly I did.)
I got into the habit of eating at that place all the time, especially at lunch. (He wasn't the only reason - the weekday lunch special was a good deal.) I saw him a lot. We talked a few times. We didn't have all that much in common, but I always tried to find some excuse to start a conversation. A couple of times he sat in my booth while taking his break.
In all of those conversations, I never so much as hinted that, if he had even the slightest interest in experimenting, I would have been willing in a nanosecond.
The closest I ever came to revealing my true interest in him was when I asked him about his old girlfriend. He was sitting in my booth, absent-mindedly glancing at a female customer a few tables away.
"She went away for college," he said. "We haven't talked since she left."
"Are you seeing anyone else?" I asked.
He flashed a slightly mischievous smile and said, "Nah, just playing the field. Know what I mean?"
I've never been good at smiling on cue, but I gave him my very best effort. "Yeah, I know what you mean."
The female customer got up and left. She passed by our booth on the way out. As soon as we were out of her field of sight, he turned his head around to take a long, lingering look at her ass. I made a somewhat self-conscious effort to look like I was checking her out, too.
I found myself thinking about her ... and him, together. Wondering what he would do to her.
He smirked at me. "You're thinking what I'm thinking," he said.
I smirked, too, but not for the same reason. "You know I am," I said.
This continued for about a year. Then, one day, I came in during one of his usual shifts, looked around, and didn't see him. Another waiter with whom I had conversed a few times walked up to my booth.
"Is [the guy] off today?" I asked.
The waiter looked as if I'd punched him in the gut.
"You haven't heard?" he asked.
"No," I said, feeling a sudden surge of panic. "Did he quit?"
The waiter closed his eyes and took a deep breath. "I'm sorry to be the one who has to tell you. He's dead."
I gasped, as if *I'd* just been sucker-punched. Part of me thought that it had to be a sick joke. Several seconds passed before I could take another breath.
"What happened?" I asked at long last.
"He and some buddies went to a hotel on Saturday night. Their room was on the fifteenth floor. They were all hanging out on the balcony. He'd had a few beers and was sitting on the railing. All of a sudden he just leaned back too far and fell off."
"Holy s**t," I whispered.
"He didn't say a word on the way down. He didn't scream, didn't yell - nothing. They said he died instantly as soon as he hit the ground."
I'm a voracious eater, but I barely nibbled on my burger on that particular day.
After all those years of my strange love/hate obsession with him, all those weird coincidences that seemed designed to keep me in his orbit, all those conversations laced with hidden meanings, suddenly he was gone forever.
In short order, I found another place to eat. There were simply too many complicated memories attached to that particular restaurant. I've rarely been back since. (One time, I contracted food poisoning and barfed up my lunch in the parking lot.)
There have been other guys who've caught my attention.
About ten years ago, I had a co-worker who haunted my thoughts. He was from the Upper Midwest, but had a Latvian surname. (Yes, I looked it up.) He was very tall, not as muscular as I would have preferred (he was a bespectacled academic), and (worst of all) almost totally bald. But he had the most brilliant, piercing eyes - blue with swirls of grey. They brought to mind the chilly hue of the Arctic Sea.
I rarely had a legitimate reason to interact with him, but I took advantage of every single conceivable opportunity to engage him in conversation. He was reserved, even a little shy, but polite. Eventually he left for another position elsewhere and I never saw him again.
That's usually how it is - I see a guy, (maybe) find some reason to talk to him, (sometimes) get to know him a little, but never end up doing anything with him. Invariably these guys are tall - never shorter than 6'2", often 6'5" or above - being the most common - and well-built and Nordic-looking. I make a point of befriending as many of them as I can. But I can never find the nerve to tell them what I'm really thinking.
My mother claims that my father was the same way. He was a jock in high school and college and was very active in amateur sports in his early adulthood. Even when my parents were married, my father spent most of his free time with his teammates.
My mother says that there was one guy in particular who may or may not have been gay himself, but who knew that my father was mesmerized with him and thoroughly enjoyed being the dominant figure.
"Your father followed this guy around like a lovesick puppy dog," she told me once. "He hung on his every word. He had him over for dinner and I had to sit there watching them flirt with each other across the table for two hours. He *never* looked at me like that. After a while he didn't even want to touch me."
One time, when we were arguing, my mother shouted, "You're a fag, just like your father! You sure as hell didn't get it from me!"
But then she softened her tone and added, "But at least you're not the girl, like he was."
No, I'm not the girl - never the girl. That is one thing that I never have done and never will do.
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.Replies: @Flip, @nobodyofnowhere, @BB753, @Half Canadian, @Anonymous, @kaganovitch
Keynes and Shakespeare?
They both married though. JMK was late in life and no kids so maybe should count. WS had a few kinda homo sonnets but I don’t think that by itself says too much.
I was thinking before the modern era when I was referring to a lack of British gay intellectuals.
Now that I think about it, lots of British gays in the Victorian and early 20th Century.
That era produced so many great minds though it would be hard to estimate a gay percentage and it still may be quite low. Keynes is really the only modern British example of a absolute first class mind. And Lord Byron was a bisexual.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous
Joe was a "homophobe" who thought his hero was a poofter. AL Rowse was a poofter who swore the man was straight and virile. I'd go with Rowse.
Those like Joseph Pearce who think the Bard was a recusant Catholic are on firmer footing. Even if wrong, they're not fools.Replies: @Precious
Are there any homosexuals who themselves regard homosexuality as a disease or disability that impedes them from reproducing?
There are Christian types who regard their homosexuality as demonic possession and the like, but I’ve never read about or encountered homosexuals who have a clinical take on homosexuality as a disease/disability.
Most people with diseases or disabilities are aware of them. Someone born without legs or who catches leprosy is starkly aware of his condition and how it impacts his reproductive potential. Some like those with Alzheimer’s, or certain drug and alcohol addicts, are unaware or in denial of their afflictions. Perhaps these conditions along with homosexuality afflict similar parts of the brain.
Never. The last path for escape from potential responsibility will be defended unto death!
White alone 14.7%
Black alone 8%
Asian alone 3.1%https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/lawyer-nj-mom-knocked-out-by-school-bully-is-filing-a-notice-to-sue-the-district-this-week.htmlReplies: @ATBOTL, @william munny, @Anon
And the vast majority of whites are Orthodox Jews.
Passaic is a small rust belt city first settled by the Dutch. After a few decades of white flight, whites constitute a little more than 1% of the public school population. Hispanics > 90%.
I know one of the last remaining white families. “Trash” would be a compliment.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottMGreer/status/1143721735587598336Replies: @Daniel H, @Jim Don Bob, @Corn
>>Queens new DA is a Soros stooge who won’t prosecute crimes.
Better her than the white, ethnic hacks. Another upstart Puerto Rican throws out a tired, old, white ethnic hack in New York City. Good.
This wasn’t supposed to happen. NYC politics were supposed to be safe for hacks like Crowley and Katz forever. After all, they are not just part of the grand coalition, they are its natural leaders. The coloreds were supposed to know their place and role. That place and role was to keep their damned mouths shut, vote Democrat/hack and mouth the correct rhetoric on white man=bad.
You do know the way forward? It will start slowly, but hacks like Crowley and Katz will eventually migrate to the Republican party. The hacks will swallow their pride and mouth a justification that the Republicans have grown and matured and are no longer hateful, sexist, Christian white supremacists. And eventually, they will transform the Republican party into their own image. And the Cucks will go right along with this, because being Cucks, they have no principle, no backbone and will do anything to be accepted and liked.
“Keynes and Shakespeare”
They both married though. JMK was late in life and no kids so maybe should count. WS had a few kinda homo sonnets but I don’t think that by itself says too much.
I was thinking before the modern era when I was referring to a lack of British gay intellectuals.
Now that I think about it, lots of British gays in the Victorian and early 20th Century.
That era produced so many great minds though it would be hard to estimate a gay percentage and it still may be quite low. Keynes is really the only modern British example of a absolute first class mind. And Lord Byron was a bisexual.
Would you consider Kit Marlowe to be a top British mind?
Neal Stephenson speculated about Isaac Newton's predilections, although without a shred of evidence.Replies: @Lot
I think what is really needed is a unified theory of paraphilia. It isn’t enough to explain homosexuality — you also need to explain sadism and masochism. And podophilia. And pedophilia. And autopedophilia. Seriously, read the list! So are there genes for all of these? I rather doubt it! But all of those fetishes need explanation every bit as much as homosexuality, and my suspicion is that there is a single broad explanation that covers both homosexuality and other varieties of aberrant sexuality.
What I think is that sexual orientation in humans is a bit fragile, because we have abandoned the ancient mammalian mechanism of pheromones. Male dogs go crazy when they smell female dogs in heat, and for most other mammals it works the same way, but it doesn’t work that way for humans. As far as I know it doesn’t work that way for gorillas or chimps either, but they lead simple lives, and they see lots of normal sexual activity all around them from the time they are very young, so when their own hormones kick in they have a pretty good idea of what it is they want to do about it.
But for most human children sex is a mystery, and as a result they are vulnerable to having their sexuality derailed by random ideas or events that excite or intrigue them is some way. This might involve grooming from an adult homosexual, but it might also just be something startling that they see on TV or in the home or around the neighborhood. Something that gives them an exciting little shock that they’d like to feel again. So they dwell on it and start to fixate, and by the time the hormones kick in the die is cast. I’m sure genetics plays a role too. A naturally effeminate boy is likely to notice this and think about it and maybe come up with his own ideas about it. But you really do need an explanation for all the other paraphilias! My theory is that because human sexuality is not entirely hard coded, to some extent there must be some thought involved (even if it’s not remembered later on), and that the wide variety of human sexual abnormality is a direct consequence of the creativity of human imagination. Homosexuality happens to be the most common aberration simply because the male/female distinction is so universal and important, but the underlying mechanism is the same as for all the rest.
It's the third "most read" story today. The victim is Hispanic. You don't find out until the 14th paragraph that "the 13-year-old suspect is African-American."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/26/mother-teen-bully-assault-mexico/?tid=pm_popReplies: @CCZ, @J.Ross, @Jus' Sayin'..., @anon, @Zedrick
There’s a lot going on in this story that the MSM is carefully going to ignore. As CZZ points out this is a minority-majority town, with Hispanics dominating demographically. Only WaPo reported the race of the Negro thug. But https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/nj-mom-beaten-unconscious-by-school-bully-who-threatened-her-son-in-hate-crime-lawyer-says.html provides many illuminating other details.
Now let’s break the story down: A Hispanic kid in a public school, which is apparently for more academically gifted students (Passaic Gifted and Talented Academy School No. 20), is bullied by three student thugs, at least one of whom is Negro. (I suspect they all are. They tend to run and attack in packs.)
The bullied Hispanic student obtains no satisfaction from school authorities, who sequestered HIM for the day and failed to report the bullying to anyone. (I’d bet money the school authorities are Negroes.)
He tells his mother who confronts school officials (probably Negro). When the mother confronts them, their response is that the Negro bully and his (more than likely Negro) accomplices “had just as much right to an education as her [Hispanic] son”.
The Negro bully then viciously assaults the Hispanic mother, presumably after learning somehow from (probably Negro) school staff, that both her son and she have complained.
At this point the boy’s Hispanic father, Alfonso Vasquez, contacts the Hispanic Mayor of Passaic, Hector Lora, and the Negro bully is finally suspended.
There’s a lot of interesting data there on how vibrant diversity works in practice.
I’d also be willing to hazard money that the test scores and academic performance of the Negro thug and his pack mates were more than likely sub-par verging on retarded.
This is the USA’s vibrant future in microcosm.
Tiffany Caban, the presumptive Queens county, NYC, district attorney and her entourage celebrate her primary victory. All people of color except the old white dude on the left who is the GAY New York City council member Jimmy Van Bramer. He won’t be around much longer. The Coalition really doesn’t like gays, furthermore, he’s white, representing a colored district.
Who knew, maybe all these years it would have been relatively easy for the Coalition to seize power in NYC. All they had to do was try. Anyway, the times they are a changin’ . Not a moment too soon. I have no dog in this fight.
But homosexuals have so few children. Wouldn’t its genetic basis sort of die out over time? I mean, especially since it’s been normalized, the guys don’t even bother with sham marriages anymore. Their fertility should be getting even lower. The lesbians never seem to produce more than one kid, and that’s paired with a woman who has zero.
Interesting theory, I like it.
The whole modern homosexual lifestyle is very decadent and only possible when your basic material needs are more than met. Much like feminism, it is a luxury that brutish survival conditions don’t allow.
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.Replies: @Flip, @nobodyofnowhere, @BB753, @Half Canadian, @Anonymous, @kaganovitch
Turing didn’t come to mind?
i’ve already posted several times here over the last 20 years that if scientists ever do figure out what’s going on, and then figure out how to stop it, homosexuals will scream that “You’re exterminating us!”
it would be an interesting science fiction book or movie, about the last days of the gays. it could cover “The Conversioning”, the time period where all homo fetuses are converted into hetero fetuses in utero, and homosexual politicians and celebrity figures are trying to lead some kind of political revolt against this.
it would be a lot like the year 2019, but in reverse. instead of the wild celebration of the homos now that they’re able to get to all our children, and try to turn normal children into transexuals, we’d observe the reverse. the prevalence and appearance of homos decreasing every 5 years. attendance at pride parades declining, then pride parades disappearing, city by city. the rainbow flag disappearing from public view year by year, like the confederate flag today.
then 40 years later, as the last few remaining homos are old and dying, we could have a “Last of the Homohecans” type story, where the last homo watches his friends pass on, and then he’s all alone. anthropologists could document all the gay slang and etiquette he knows, for linguists and historians to study and write books about. chemists would forget how to make PrEP. doctors would forgot how to treat anti-biotic resistant VD, like they’ve forgotten how to treat TB.
“We used to run for President. Now we’re all gone.”
It's the third "most read" story today. The victim is Hispanic. You don't find out until the 14th paragraph that "the 13-year-old suspect is African-American."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/26/mother-teen-bully-assault-mexico/?tid=pm_popReplies: @CCZ, @J.Ross, @Jus' Sayin'..., @anon, @Zedrick
Combustion of the Fringes.
Pedophiles often claim that they became pedophiles by some mysterious process after themselves having been victims of pedophilia when they were children. (Never mind perhaps not wishing to inflict on another child what was inflicted on you!)
The most likely cause of homosexuality is having first experiences of sexual arousal in the presence of another member of the same sex, whether a contemporary or an older man (or woman in the case of girls). If random sexual arousal is then reinforced by sexual gratification and orgasm, then the behavior is more likely to occur and become the dominant behavioral pattern.
This would be consistent with the natural history of fetishes–sexual arousal in the presence of ostensibly nonsexual object. The theory is that the child is imprinted with inappropriate sexual stimuli at a very young age, rather in the same way that ducklings or geese sometimes get the mistaken idea that a dog is their mother and grow up using dogs as role models. (Fortunately Labrador retrievers like to swim!)
It is a pity that nobody has yet figured this out by studying a bit of zoology.
I think there might be something to that. It'd certainly explain the epidemic incidence of homosexuality among members of the British upper classes once they all started to be packed off to sexually segregated schools until they were eighteen.
‘I’ve read that the lower ones may not be quite as strictly heritable so much as they set you up in a way that if various post-genomic, post-mitosis mutations or “Waddington valley” chances occur during fetal development or very early childhood you veer into being gay, or left handed.’
I think a couple of points are worth making here. First, the incidence of homosexuality varies widely among different cultures, classes, and places. It seems to be viewed with blank horror in Eastern Europe and subsaharan Africa, accepted as fairly ordinary in Japan. Among upper-class Englishmen of the First World War generation, it seems to have reached the point where some figures started out as practicing homosexuals — only to eventually realize they were heterosexual after all.
Second, sexual desire is at least partially culturally determined. A lot of cultures like big, fat women — so big and fat you or I would genuinely find them unattractive. Chinese used to have a foot fetish — and I don’t doubt that your average Chinese gentleman of the seventeenth century genuinely found small feet extremely erotic. Large breasts were and remain a real key in the West — they’re distained in other cultures.
And so on. The point is that while some large chunk of the population may be potentially gay, what proportion actually wind up feeling that they are is probably culturally determined. You could raise me elsewhere and I would genuinely want a four-hundred pounder for a wife. I’d be completely sincere in that. You can raise me here, and I really don’t. Really. No foolin.’
I expect it homosexuality is hard wired in people, perhaps a small number are inclined that way and can be persuaded. My revulsion of homosexuals certainly feels hard wired.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8878301/Rugby-player-who-had-stroke-woke-up-gay-and-became-hairdresser.html
They both married though. JMK was late in life and no kids so maybe should count. WS had a few kinda homo sonnets but I don’t think that by itself says too much.
I was thinking before the modern era when I was referring to a lack of British gay intellectuals.
Now that I think about it, lots of British gays in the Victorian and early 20th Century.
That era produced so many great minds though it would be hard to estimate a gay percentage and it still may be quite low. Keynes is really the only modern British example of a absolute first class mind. And Lord Byron was a bisexual.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous
Due to boys of the upper classes being sent in large numbers to all-male boarding schools for the puberty years.
In England it has also been noticed that sheep-shagging is more common among agricultural workers than bankers who specialize more in fleecing human victims.
‘The most likely cause of homosexuality is having first experiences of sexual arousal in the presence of another member of the same sex, whether a contemporary or an older man (or woman in the case of girls). If random sexual arousal is then reinforced by sexual gratification and orgasm, then the behavior is more likely to occur and become the dominant behavioral pattern.’
I think there might be something to that. It’d certainly explain the epidemic incidence of homosexuality among members of the British upper classes once they all started to be packed off to sexually segregated schools until they were eighteen.
This is why the gays are so enthusiastic about things like Drag Queen Reading Hour for little kids.
Yes.
I think that homophobia creates conditions that perversely lead to more homos being born.
I think there is some genetic component to being a homo. So in those ultra-conservative Muslim cultures, all homos are pressured into pretending to be straight, getting a straight marriage, and having straight sex even though they would rather not do it.
So places in the Middle East probably have more homos per capita than progressive Western culturess.
My objection: Every little boy is excited by being around a strapping young male. Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him - and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies. And there is nothing more reinforcing (in the sense of classical behaviourism) than an orgasm.
So the genetical difference is about masculinity/effeteness, whereas the rest (sexual orientation) can be explained merely by behaviourism.Replies: @BB753, @guest, @Cloudbuster, @LondonBob
“Every little boy is excited by being around a strapping young male”
Speak for yourself! Are you gay?
“Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him – and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies.”
What about the boys in the middle?
I’m a little reluctant to admit this, but that’s never stopped me before.
Without discussing anything that I have or have not done, or what label I attach to anything, I can tell you that I am very much attracted to a certain kind of man. The vast majority of men do nothing for me, but I have a definite “type.”
When I was in high school, there was a guy I knew who played on the football team. We never really talked one-on-one, but I saw him around all the time. He had a German last name – he wasn’t Jewish – and the looks to match – tall, muscular, broad shoulders tapering down to a trim waist, blond hair, blue eyes, square jaw. He wasn’t very smart – honestly, he was a stereotypical “dumb jock” – but he radiated confidence and cockiness and masculinity. The popular girls swarmed around him like moths drawn to a flame.
His girlfriend was one of those high-maintenance blonde types. They used to fight a lot.
(One time, while walking through the senior parking lot, I saw the two of them screaming at each other. He was yelling at her. I found myself wishing that they would break up then and there. “Whatever you did, bitch, you deserve it,” I thought to myself.)
My feelings toward him were ambivalent. I admired him, even idolized him. But I really hated him, because I was insanely jealous of his body and his face. But I realized even then that much of my hatred was due to the fact that he would never look at me the way he looked at his girlfriend.
Judging by the way he talked about “fags,” I surmised (probably correctly) that he would beat the shit out of me if he ever found out how I really felt about him. We were about the same height, and I weighed more than him, but I was fat and he was fit and he would have wiped the floor with me.
We graduated. I attended a four-year university in the same area where I grew up. I still lived with my mother, so I ended up going to the same stores and restaurants that I had always patronized.
About a year after my high-school graduation, I stopped at a popular local barbecue spot to pick up a phone order. I got out of the car and then – suddenly, shockingly – there he was, standing a few feet away from me, just chilling out. If anything, his physique was even more impressive than it had been during his playing days. I found myself staring at him until he shot me a wary glance – as if to say, “What are *you* looking at?” Then someone came out of the back entrance and asked him a question, and I realized that he was working there. He went back inside.
I went inside to pick up my order, but I didn’t see him again. The next few times I went to that place, I didn’t see him.
About a year after that, I went to another restaurant – a sports bar – for lunch. I sat down at my table, looked over the menu, and then glanced up at the waiter to see … him. Standing not two feet away from me, asking me for my drink order.
I’m rarely left speechless by anyone or anything, but I could barely manage to stammer out that I just wanted some water.
By the time he came back, I had recovered enough to make a little light conversation.
After ordering my burger, I said, “You’re [that guy], aren’t you? I remember you from high school.”
He smiled – he had a dazzling smile – and said, “Hey, yeah, I remember you! [Stan], right? How you doin’?”
“Fine,” I said. “I thought I saw you one day working at [the barbecue place].”
“Yeah, I was a manager there for a while. But I make a lot more money as a server here. Especially on Friday and Saturday night.”
That was the general tone of our conversation. He had nothing terribly profound to say, but he was so good-looking and charismatic that I could have listened to him reading the phone book out loud. I had no doubt that many customers – especially women – left him very generous tips. (Certainly I did.)
I got into the habit of eating at that place all the time, especially at lunch. (He wasn’t the only reason – the weekday lunch special was a good deal.) I saw him a lot. We talked a few times. We didn’t have all that much in common, but I always tried to find some excuse to start a conversation. A couple of times he sat in my booth while taking his break.
In all of those conversations, I never so much as hinted that, if he had even the slightest interest in experimenting, I would have been willing in a nanosecond.
The closest I ever came to revealing my true interest in him was when I asked him about his old girlfriend. He was sitting in my booth, absent-mindedly glancing at a female customer a few tables away.
“She went away for college,” he said. “We haven’t talked since she left.”
“Are you seeing anyone else?” I asked.
He flashed a slightly mischievous smile and said, “Nah, just playing the field. Know what I mean?”
I’ve never been good at smiling on cue, but I gave him my very best effort. “Yeah, I know what you mean.”
The female customer got up and left. She passed by our booth on the way out. As soon as we were out of her field of sight, he turned his head around to take a long, lingering look at her ass. I made a somewhat self-conscious effort to look like I was checking her out, too.
I found myself thinking about her … and him, together. Wondering what he would do to her.
He smirked at me. “You’re thinking what I’m thinking,” he said.
I smirked, too, but not for the same reason. “You know I am,” I said.
This continued for about a year. Then, one day, I came in during one of his usual shifts, looked around, and didn’t see him. Another waiter with whom I had conversed a few times walked up to my booth.
“Is [the guy] off today?” I asked.
The waiter looked as if I’d punched him in the gut.
“You haven’t heard?” he asked.
“No,” I said, feeling a sudden surge of panic. “Did he quit?”
The waiter closed his eyes and took a deep breath. “I’m sorry to be the one who has to tell you. He’s dead.”
I gasped, as if *I’d* just been sucker-punched. Part of me thought that it had to be a sick joke. Several seconds passed before I could take another breath.
“What happened?” I asked at long last.
“He and some buddies went to a hotel on Saturday night. Their room was on the fifteenth floor. They were all hanging out on the balcony. He’d had a few beers and was sitting on the railing. All of a sudden he just leaned back too far and fell off.”
“Holy s**t,” I whispered.
“He didn’t say a word on the way down. He didn’t scream, didn’t yell – nothing. They said he died instantly as soon as he hit the ground.”
I’m a voracious eater, but I barely nibbled on my burger on that particular day.
After all those years of my strange love/hate obsession with him, all those weird coincidences that seemed designed to keep me in his orbit, all those conversations laced with hidden meanings, suddenly he was gone forever.
In short order, I found another place to eat. There were simply too many complicated memories attached to that particular restaurant. I’ve rarely been back since. (One time, I contracted food poisoning and barfed up my lunch in the parking lot.)
There have been other guys who’ve caught my attention.
About ten years ago, I had a co-worker who haunted my thoughts. He was from the Upper Midwest, but had a Latvian surname. (Yes, I looked it up.) He was very tall, not as muscular as I would have preferred (he was a bespectacled academic), and (worst of all) almost totally bald. But he had the most brilliant, piercing eyes – blue with swirls of grey. They brought to mind the chilly hue of the Arctic Sea.
I rarely had a legitimate reason to interact with him, but I took advantage of every single conceivable opportunity to engage him in conversation. He was reserved, even a little shy, but polite. Eventually he left for another position elsewhere and I never saw him again.
That’s usually how it is – I see a guy, (maybe) find some reason to talk to him, (sometimes) get to know him a little, but never end up doing anything with him. Invariably these guys are tall – never shorter than 6’2″, often 6’5″ or above – being the most common – and well-built and Nordic-looking. I make a point of befriending as many of them as I can. But I can never find the nerve to tell them what I’m really thinking.
My mother claims that my father was the same way. He was a jock in high school and college and was very active in amateur sports in his early adulthood. Even when my parents were married, my father spent most of his free time with his teammates.
My mother says that there was one guy in particular who may or may not have been gay himself, but who knew that my father was mesmerized with him and thoroughly enjoyed being the dominant figure.
“Your father followed this guy around like a lovesick puppy dog,” she told me once. “He hung on his every word. He had him over for dinner and I had to sit there watching them flirt with each other across the table for two hours. He *never* looked at me like that. After a while he didn’t even want to touch me.”
One time, when we were arguing, my mother shouted, “You’re a fag, just like your father! You sure as hell didn’t get it from me!”
But then she softened her tone and added, “But at least you’re not the girl, like he was.”
No, I’m not the girl – never the girl. That is one thing that I never have done and never will do.
Guy is really reaching to explain some sort of benefit that homosexuality may lend to humanity. Being a genetic dead end must create a lot of existential angst.Replies: @Michael S
Group selection is pretty much rejected by evo scientists anyway. There’s no evidence that it exists, no formal mechanism by which it can be explained to operate, and generally no way for a local fitness-obliterator to provide enough of a nonlocal advantage to be selected for.
GWAS will probably support the current scientific hypothesis, which is that homosexuality is related to the same group of alleles that are responsible for promiscuity, peacocking and male “prettiness”, which are normally an advantage without the homosexuality, but degenerate into homosexuality with certain environmental triggers.
Twin studies are good at finding very strongly heritable traits, but if homosexuality itself is not a heritable trait, but rather the expression of a heritable trait in some specific environment, then twin studies will only find weak associations. But what GWAS will hopefully tell us is that nearly all homosexuals share certain alleles, which exist but at a much lower frequency in the heterosexual population (like say 90% for homos, 50% for heteros).
Time will tell, but if the above is what we see, then it will not only explain the actual apparent recent rise in homosexuality, but indicate that it is a potentially preventable and/or treatable condition.
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.Replies: @Flip, @nobodyofnowhere, @BB753, @Half Canadian, @Anonymous, @kaganovitch
Bacon the modern painter was gay. But surely Francis Bacon the great philosopher was not?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon
“Please don’t deplete our stock of fresh, young inductees, Mr. Science.”
– Gay Men
European parliament votes mandatory homo-gene implantation for all newly conceived children in name of diversity and LGBTQWFKSJS rights .Replies: @Zedrick, @Anonymous
Do you really think it will take that long?
The most depressing neologism of the 2010s must be ‘chosen family’, followed by ‘work family’. Our ancestors had far richer, more meaningful lives that being able to look up almost any piece of information ever written shockingly doesn’t seem to even barely make up for anymore.
I do like how he brags about his ‘blue eyes’ and ‘sturdy stature’. But it’s okay because he reminds us of his ancestors’ immigration from the Low Countries to the colony of Pennsylvania to freely practice a fringe take on Protestantism. He’s only descended from oldest surviving white colonists, but the Dutch ones not some WASP! They were religious asylum seekers! Flight from white: Pennsylvania Dutch edition!
Speak for yourself, I identify as a Rothschild.
Mark 3:31-35 31
Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother.
Homosexuality was once considered paraphilia or fetish, before it became an anointing from the Finger of God, or however we conceive of it now. However, I think it has to be more specific than merely arousal in a man’s presence. Because I assume many more boys are aroused at odd times in front of other males than boys end up being gay.
My objection: Every little boy is excited by being around a strapping young male. Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him - and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies. And there is nothing more reinforcing (in the sense of classical behaviourism) than an orgasm.
So the genetical difference is about masculinity/effeteness, whereas the rest (sexual orientation) can be explained merely by behaviourism.Replies: @BB753, @guest, @Cloudbuster, @LondonBob
If you stretch the meaning of “excited,” maybe. But not sexually excited, to be sure.
There are probably a s***load of Amish laughing at that, Reg.
“I think this is for homosexual males, not females”
Yes. We all know lesbians derive from man-hatred, justified and unjustified. Especially involving stepdads. General unattractiveness helps.
Also, kissing games at slumber parties.
If the Athenians were to be believed, 100% of the male population of ancient Sparta engaged in homosexual behavior. One writer noted that they were quite cold toward their wives and preferred to spend their nights in the barracks. If true, this would suggest human sexual preferences are primarily created through social conditioning and imprinting during adolescence.
It's the third "most read" story today. The victim is Hispanic. You don't find out until the 14th paragraph that "the 13-year-old suspect is African-American."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/26/mother-teen-bully-assault-mexico/?tid=pm_popReplies: @CCZ, @J.Ross, @Jus' Sayin'..., @anon, @Zedrick
“Passaic Gifted and Talented Academy School No. 20”
If it’s #2o, I don’t know how gifted & talented the students would be.
I thinks this is a case of making the little tykes feel good about themselves.
Even if most are too dumb to know how dumb they actually are.
My objection: Every little boy is excited by being around a strapping young male. Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him - and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies. And there is nothing more reinforcing (in the sense of classical behaviourism) than an orgasm.
So the genetical difference is about masculinity/effeteness, whereas the rest (sexual orientation) can be explained merely by behaviourism.Replies: @BB753, @guest, @Cloudbuster, @LondonBob
My objection: Every little boy is excited by being around a strapping young male. Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him – and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies. And there is nothing more reinforcing (in the sense of classical behaviourism) than an orgasm.
You’re projecting.
This may be so, for example when I was a schoolboy of 11 or 12 there were other boys who would publicly masturbate in the changing rooms after soccer and others would watch. As far as I recall I was never one of the masturbators, but then their cachet, if you like, was that they were able to ejaculate copious amounts of semen when we could not, so we would not have had anything to show off.
I can still name the boys, if you like, but won’t as they might be reading this. However, I always found the most prominent masturbation demonstrator more interesting for his descriptions of making home made pipe bombs during the Christmas break by taking powder from shotgun cartridges than for his ginger-haired penis. With such a combination of skills, I am sure he had a successful career in something.
However it would have been unthinkable for a boy to KISS another boy.
But the anecdote does illustrate that it takes very little to make adolescent boys sexually aroused. In fact this happens even without a stimulus or during sleep. So I still think homosexuality is more of an immature kind of sexual expression that has persisted into adulthood. It more or less comes down to a form of mutual masturbation in the same sense that having sex with a prostitute can resemble masturbating into a condom inside a vagina.
Being gay is probably a lifestyle choice based on taking the easier path to sexual popularity, like using marijuana or cocaine in places where it is illegal. It seems to have become much more common today than when I was young and it was considered gross and illegal.
Fortunately I am too old to even think of starting new sexual relationships, and have no desire to do so, so I feel that I can be reasonably objective about it all. Bottom line: when you reach the point that you have had all the recreational sex you ever wanted, you realize that it was hardly ever worth the effort, and that once children are made, it is job done.
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.Replies: @Flip, @nobodyofnowhere, @BB753, @Half Canadian, @Anonymous, @kaganovitch
I’ve thought that being open-minded has an advantage to intellectual/artistic achievements, and this may be associated with being gay. After all, if you get over the disgust of having sex with someone of the same sex, I’m sure it feels pretty good. You just need to be open-minded enough to try it.
I was noticing tits even before adolescence, I have been straight all my life. Many gay men report feeling gay from early boyhood. Hopefully, this is just trolling because it is flat-out wrong.
Another possibility that has not been mentioned is that males have to transition from male/male bonding during their childhood to lusting after females when they go through puberty.
That is, before puberty, males tend to have much more dislike for females than females have for males. They also tend to prefer all male groups and the company of other males. Puberty is when that starts to change.
Some males, perhaps because of a virus, do not make the transition, so they fix their sexual desires on males.Replies: @Lot
The problem with this discussion is that as soon as you bring up kids and sex, people get uncomfortable and online moderators come after you. But it needs to be discussed for a better understanding of sexuality.
To this day I still remember the name (and look) of that female gym teacher, so there was a definitely hetero thing going on with me in second grade. I should also mention that back then I thought Jan Brady was extremely "foxy." Still so. I didn't tune into "The Brady Bunch" for Sam the butcher or the lame plots.
I know it's just anecdotal; but I'll share anyway. Way back around 1980 I picked up an aunt's soon to be 2nd husband from the Alameda Navy dock. The soon to be uncle gave me a short tour around the ship he was stationed on, and off we went in my fathers '72 Pinto wagon. He was a very pleasant, straight forward guy. But within minutes of meeting him I began to wonder why my aunt was going to marry a "gay" guy? It wasn't anything he was saying, he wasn't hitting on me: it was just obvious, plain as day to me. I never got another chance to speak directly with him again, and my sister was the only person I shared the observation with.
Twenty years later I went to a reunion were I met my two grown cousins from that union at a wedding. One of the two boys was/is an "out" gay. The wedding was my cousin Jenny's, from the same aunts 1st marriage. I had met the groom a few days prior to the wedding. Again a pleasant man, but again struck me right away as gay. Of that union there are two daughters, one of whom is an "out" lesbian.
What are the odds, I surely don't know; but I'd bet bottom dollar 23&me will have a reasonable estimate on that soon.
BTW - I know I'm sick, but did anyone else see that pic of Kellyanne Conway with her tongue out on Drudge and feel a tinge?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48136229186_0cea60c081_m.jpgReplies: @Hibernian
From the department of You Couldn’t Make This Sit Up.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/22/mom-protest-drag-queen-story-hour-sniper/
I do like how he brags about his 'blue eyes' and 'sturdy stature'. But it's okay because he reminds us of his ancestors’ immigration from the Low Countries to the colony of Pennsylvania to freely practice a fringe take on Protestantism. He's only descended from oldest surviving white colonists, but the Dutch ones not some WASP! They were religious asylum seekers! Flight from white: Pennsylvania Dutch edition!Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason
>The most depressing neologism of the 2010s must be ‘chosen family’
Speak for yourself, I identify as a Rothschild.
>banksters tend not to prefer sheep
The globalists are buying up land in New Zealand …
They both married though. JMK was late in life and no kids so maybe should count. WS had a few kinda homo sonnets but I don’t think that by itself says too much.
I was thinking before the modern era when I was referring to a lack of British gay intellectuals.
Now that I think about it, lots of British gays in the Victorian and early 20th Century.
That era produced so many great minds though it would be hard to estimate a gay percentage and it still may be quite low. Keynes is really the only modern British example of a absolute first class mind. And Lord Byron was a bisexual.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Anonymous
G.H. Hardy, for a more modern example.
Would you consider Kit Marlowe to be a top British mind?
Neal Stephenson speculated about Isaac Newton’s predilections, although without a shred of evidence.
Ask Butt Edge if he supports a womans's right to abort gay fetuses. What other traits and behaviors abilities are genetically heritable ? Naturally they must vary by ancestry groups exposed to different evolutionary forces.
Science is good.Replies: @DCThrowback
yet another way to sever the ties that bind the “coalition of the fringes”
Where is G. Cochran when you need him?
Also, do not believe Athenian propaganda. Spartans were very macho.
I don’t find Cochran’s germ theory convincing. We have exactly one example of a germ having complex behavioral effects in human beings, and its effects are subtle (e.g. slightly worse driving) and nothing as dramatic, complicated or consistent as completely inverting sexual desire.
Homosexuality has two distinct parts: removing desire for one sex and creating it for another. Otherwise you’d have a asexual or bisexual.Replies: @Valentino, @Anon, @gcochran
Schizophrenia is not caused by random mutations, but has been pinned down in GWAS studies. Plomin talks about it in his book, chapter 6, “Generalist Genes.” Schizophrenia is in a cluster of mental ilnesses that are almost indistinguishable from each other at the genetic level, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depression (which is a completely different condition than depression itself, which is clustered with anxiety disorders).
Because genetics has an aroma of badthink in academia, and because psychologists are siloed away from biology research, this stuff has not filtered down into standard psychological knowledge and practice, but the research is quite solid.
So there is a gene that causes boys who get groomed and raped by predators to adopt that behavior themselves?
White alone 14.7%
Black alone 8%
Asian alone 3.1%https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/lawyer-nj-mom-knocked-out-by-school-bully-is-filing-a-notice-to-sue-the-district-this-week.htmlReplies: @ATBOTL, @william munny, @Anon
Pet peeve: Why is the kid himself not named in the civil suit? Sure, he’s not going to be able to contribute anything to paying the judgment, and you want to sue the deep pockets. But the criminal justice system will not put a black kid in jail where he should be. So the tort system should be used to otherwise extract revenge. Make mom take out a second mortgage to pay a lawyer, if she has a house. Use the discovery process to find out about his past, and use that information to get him permanently expelled from the school district upon threat of suing school district officials over irresponsibly allowing him to attend school. Put the kid on a faster track school to prison pipeline.
Stay away from Sobran on this subject.
Joe was a “homophobe” who thought his hero was a poofter. AL Rowse was a poofter who swore the man was straight and virile. I’d go with Rowse.
Those like Joseph Pearce who think the Bard was a recusant Catholic are on firmer footing. Even if wrong, they’re not fools.
Whatever….but you seem to think homosexuality is only about sex. Research shows that homosexuals are emotionally attracted to males as well, that the attraction is romantic as well as sexual, that they fall in love with males.
It makes sense, therefore, that many gay males speak of having had sex with females. The opportunity was there, they took it, and it led to orgasm.
However, they also say it can’t compare to their experiences with and their attraction to males.
There are also gay men disgusted by the thought of sex with a woman. They are disgusted by the female body parts.
European parliament votes mandatory homo-gene implantation for all newly conceived children in name of diversity and LGBTQWFKSJS rights .Replies: @Zedrick, @Anonymous
That’s assuming that EU Parliament will still exist in 2043. That’s far from certain. 50/50 at best.
Could the genetic predisposition for a Lisp be associated?Replies: @Prof. Woland, @anonymous
I really don’t think it’s taught/learned.
Some may later affect it (I kind of doubt it but whatever–maybe some do) but it certainly shows up in childhood. david sedaris eg wrote about getting speech therapy as a young child for his gay lisp.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottMGreer/status/1143721735587598336Replies: @Daniel H, @Jim Don Bob, @Corn
The SJWs elected one here in the Peoples’ Republic.
The babe who won is a public defender backed by Soros. She cited a case of “police brutality” where a cop shot a guy -after- the guy took an iron bar to the cop’s face which required 60+ stitches.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/politics/elections/incumbent-top-prosecutors-fall-in-virginia-primary-amid-calls-for-criminal-justice-reform/65-c7a81328-cb45-4dad-89c8-3397f633473f
I think that’s a distinction without a difference from a natural selection point of view. The extent to which a gene leads to homosexuality and non-reproduction is the extent to which it has negative survival value.
Indeed. Compare with: https://infogalactic.com/info/Skoptsy
So what.
Another possibility that has not been mentioned is that males have to transition from male/male bonding during their childhood to lusting after females when they go through puberty.
That is, before puberty, males tend to have much more dislike for females than females have for males. They also tend to prefer all male groups and the company of other males. Puberty is when that starts to change.
Some males, perhaps because of a virus, do not make the transition, so they fix their sexual desires on males.
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.Replies: @Flip, @nobodyofnowhere, @BB753, @Half Canadian, @Anonymous, @kaganovitch
Since the discussion is about homosexuality and genetics, Bacon is a good example of a homosexual which had homosexual close relatives. His brother Anthony was charged with sodomy in France, but the king of Navarre saved him of punishment (burn at the stake). And for Francis, there also had been the question of bringing him to trial for buggery. Bacon’s fellow Member of Parliament Simonds D’Ewes wrote in his diaries:
But Francis brother-in-law Mervyn Tuchet, didn’t have the same luck of the Bacon brothers. He was executed accused of sodomy with pages in 1631. So, it’s not difficult to understand why there weren’t many records of open homosexuality in pre-modern times. Gays could lose their lives in those times. Homosexuals needed to be extremely careful.
This is something that rarely gets mentioned. But now that you opened up the proverbial can of worms, I have memories of my second grade friends and I going on about the female gym teacher being “stacked.” We definitely noticed. And years later, I also had gay male friends tell me they knew they were gay in elementary school when they got crushes on their male teachers.
The problem with this discussion is that as soon as you bring up kids and sex, people get uncomfortable and online moderators come after you. But it needs to be discussed for a better understanding of sexuality.
To this day I still remember the name (and look) of that female gym teacher, so there was a definitely hetero thing going on with me in second grade. I should also mention that back then I thought Jan Brady was extremely “foxy.” Still so. I didn’t tune into “The Brady Bunch” for Sam the butcher or the lame plots.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but haven’t one or two red states either passed or proposed sex-selective abortion bans? I believe feminists flew into a tizzy over them as much as they do any abortion restriction.
Sex selective abortion is mostly a south, maybe east Asian thing. Most “people of color” in the US are black or brown. So far feminists seem to view sex selective abortion as just some thing pro-lifers blather about as an excuse to restrict abortion.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottMGreer/status/1143721735587598336Replies: @Daniel H, @Jim Don Bob, @Corn
This new trend of blue metropolises electing DAs who choose to serve as Chief Public Defenders is quite disturbing.
And this time I doubt there’s enough white voters left to elect a Giuliani to the rescue.
Joe was a "homophobe" who thought his hero was a poofter. AL Rowse was a poofter who swore the man was straight and virile. I'd go with Rowse.
Those like Joseph Pearce who think the Bard was a recusant Catholic are on firmer footing. Even if wrong, they're not fools.Replies: @Precious
Sobran based his theory on the Sonnets. But another Oxfordian researcher, Hank Whittemore, makes a pretty good case that the Sonnets were a political statement. Check out The Monument published in 2005.
“Spina bifida is best prevented by taking 400 micrograms (mcg) of folic acid every day. Studies have shown that if all women who could become pregnant were to take a multivitamin with the B-vitamin folic acid, the risk of neural tube defects could be reduced by up to 70%.”
Would you consider Kit Marlowe to be a top British mind?
Neal Stephenson speculated about Isaac Newton's predilections, although without a shred of evidence.Replies: @Lot
The evidence that Marlowe was gay described in Wikipedia is very weak.
Another possibility that has not been mentioned is that males have to transition from male/male bonding during their childhood to lusting after females when they go through puberty.
That is, before puberty, males tend to have much more dislike for females than females have for males. They also tend to prefer all male groups and the company of other males. Puberty is when that starts to change.
Some males, perhaps because of a virus, do not make the transition, so they fix their sexual desires on males.Replies: @Lot
Michael Bailey found most effeminate young boys become gay adults. For them at least sexual orientation was fixed well before puberty.
OT: could the rituals of orthodox judaism effectively attune individuals’ immune systems to the group as a whole, to strengthen them collectively? might they similarly seek approaches that undermine other groups’ immune systems?
No.
But geese don’t need dogs as role models. They naturally form gangs and patrol territory and attack trespassers.
One write-up said those with the gay gene are better looking. I highly doubt the effect, if real, is large enough to identify anecdotally.
“and maybe even a bit smarter.”
The great geniuses to come out of Italy seem to have been heavily gay. I can’t think of even one of the top British or French minds who were gay other than Bacon.
Arthur Hu speculated there was a gay male IQ advantage based on higher college degree rate. Far from conclusive however as gays I believe avoid a lot of jobs that pay well and don’t require college.
The Harvard Crimson freshman surveys (going back 20 years) report a lot of gays there compared with the gen-pop. But again that could be non random selection of the students or the survey.Replies: @Flip, @nobodyofnowhere, @BB753, @Half Canadian, @Anonymous, @kaganovitch
Turing?
https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/22/mom-protest-drag-queen-story-hour-sniper/Replies: @Grace Jones
This is true.
Homosexuals are groomed to be that way, not born to be that way.
It is just a sexual lifestyle choice.
I don’t find Cochran’s germ theory convincing. We have exactly one example of a germ having complex behavioral effects in human beings, and its effects are subtle (e.g. slightly worse driving) and nothing as dramatic, complicated or consistent as completely inverting sexual desire.
Homosexuality has two distinct parts: removing desire for one sex and creating it for another. Otherwise you’d have a asexual or bisexual.Replies: @Valentino, @Anon, @gcochran
tertiary syphilis affects your driving? Or was that rabies?
Because genetics has an aroma of badthink in academia, and because psychologists are siloed away from biology research, this stuff has not filtered down into standard psychological knowledge and practice, but the research is quite solid.Replies: @gcochran
Random mutations are almost certainly a big part of it, but GWAS does not detect them. The bit about the GWAS risk genes for schiz also being risk genes for other mental illnesses is correct and interesting. In terms of causation, at least, our categorization of mental illness was not right.
Bright guy who did good work but whose importance has been exaggerated.
FIFY.
http://drugdiscoveryopinion.com/2009/06/toxoplasmosis-linked-to-traffic-accidents/
And many interesting examples are known in other species.Replies: @Lot
Also, do not believe Athenian propaganda. Spartans were very macho.Replies: @gcochran
When my beard has grown around the table three times, I will awaken.
That was sarcasm: rabies affects behavior, so does syphilis. Far more solidly established than toxo effect in humans.
And many interesting examples are known in other species.
But the hypothetical gay virus destroys sexual attraction to women and replaces it with sexual attraction to men. Or less often only the latter effect.
It also sometimes but not always makes men’s aesthetic, vocational and recreational interests more like women’s.
What germ is known to do anything remotely like that, while not otherwise having a strong ill effect?Replies: @e, @TWS
And many interesting examples are known in other species.Replies: @Lot
And the chicken pox virus makes you scratch your skin.
But the hypothetical gay virus destroys sexual attraction to women and replaces it with sexual attraction to men. Or less often only the latter effect.
It also sometimes but not always makes men’s aesthetic, vocational and recreational interests more like women’s.
What germ is known to do anything remotely like that, while not otherwise having a strong ill effect?
But the hypothetical gay virus destroys sexual attraction to women and replaces it with sexual attraction to men. Or less often only the latter effect.
It also sometimes but not always makes men’s aesthetic, vocational and recreational interests more like women’s.
What germ is known to do anything remotely like that, while not otherwise having a strong ill effect?Replies: @e, @TWS
Rodents are hardwired to fear and avoid cats, yet T. gondii makes them attracted to cat urine.
That is a single example from a different species.
No examples of anything remotely like this in human beings. And we’ve existed for a much shorter time than rats or rat-like species.
Also, that isn’t how GC thinks the gay germ works (making someone gay for the purpose of spreading it more widely). If it did, there’s a serious chicken and egg problem: it makes you gay to infect gays… who are already infected. GC thinks it is more a side effect.
Also, isn’t the obvious strategy for a germ to spread by altering human sexual desire to make a woman an insatiable nymphomaniac? That’s a much less dramatic change than completely altering what a human being is attracted to. Yet, no germ has adapted this strategy. Moreover, making a man bisexual, and attracted to ugly women, as well as men, is better still.
Dave,
My experience, and those of friends, workmates, & acquaintances, are all very similar to yours. Unless one of those on the non-sexual/bi spectrum, they have said they have known from an early (prepubescent) age their “orientation”. Typically for a “straight” young boy it’s a friends mom or teacher that captures your attention: dreams ensue. It’s pretty simple for the great majority of men; which gender do you desire to see naked?
I know it’s just anecdotal; but I’ll share anyway. Way back around 1980 I picked up an aunt’s soon to be 2nd husband from the Alameda Navy dock. The soon to be uncle gave me a short tour around the ship he was stationed on, and off we went in my fathers ’72 Pinto wagon. He was a very pleasant, straight forward guy. But within minutes of meeting him I began to wonder why my aunt was going to marry a “gay” guy? It wasn’t anything he was saying, he wasn’t hitting on me: it was just obvious, plain as day to me. I never got another chance to speak directly with him again, and my sister was the only person I shared the observation with.
Twenty years later I went to a reunion were I met my two grown cousins from that union at a wedding. One of the two boys was/is an “out” gay. The wedding was my cousin Jenny’s, from the same aunts 1st marriage. I had met the groom a few days prior to the wedding. Again a pleasant man, but again struck me right away as gay. Of that union there are two daughters, one of whom is an “out” lesbian.
What are the odds, I surely don’t know; but I’d bet bottom dollar 23&me will have a reasonable estimate on that soon.
BTW – I know I’m sick, but did anyone else see that pic of Kellyanne Conway with her tongue out on Drudge and feel a tinge?
I think a couple of points are worth making here. First, the incidence of homosexuality varies widely among different cultures, classes, and places. It seems to be viewed with blank horror in Eastern Europe and subsaharan Africa, accepted as fairly ordinary in Japan. Among upper-class Englishmen of the First World War generation, it seems to have reached the point where some figures started out as practicing homosexuals -- only to eventually realize they were heterosexual after all.
Second, sexual desire is at least partially culturally determined. A lot of cultures like big, fat women -- so big and fat you or I would genuinely find them unattractive. Chinese used to have a foot fetish -- and I don't doubt that your average Chinese gentleman of the seventeenth century genuinely found small feet extremely erotic. Large breasts were and remain a real key in the West -- they're distained in other cultures.
And so on. The point is that while some large chunk of the population may be potentially gay, what proportion actually wind up feeling that they are is probably culturally determined. You could raise me elsewhere and I would genuinely want a four-hundred pounder for a wife. I'd be completely sincere in that. You can raise me here, and I really don't. Really. No foolin.'Replies: @LondonBob
Have you any evidence for this pandemic of homosexuality amongst upper Englishmen in WWI? Sure some upper class fags could live openly due to their social status but I have no idea what you are talking about. Same sex relations are as prevelant in Eastern Europe as Western Europe and Sub Saharan Africans are on the down low more than anyone else, just it isn’t broadcast publicly. I would expect the prevalence of homosexuality, whether open or not, to be largely similar.
I expect it homosexuality is hard wired in people, perhaps a small number are inclined that way and can be persuaded. My revulsion of homosexuals certainly feels hard wired.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8878301/Rugby-player-who-had-stroke-woke-up-gay-and-became-hairdresser.html
My objection: Every little boy is excited by being around a strapping young male. Only the more masculine boys try to imitate him - and the less masculine boys fail to imitate them and content themselves with using him as masturbation fantasies. And there is nothing more reinforcing (in the sense of classical behaviourism) than an orgasm.
So the genetical difference is about masculinity/effeteness, whereas the rest (sexual orientation) can be explained merely by behaviourism.Replies: @BB753, @guest, @Cloudbuster, @LondonBob
Neither of the two Michael Jackson victims were gay, they are both married with children. I would say they were hard wired to heterosexuality despite the sexual enjoyment they say they received from Jackson as children. I am really not aware of anyone being cured of homosexuality nor am I aware of homos saying they chose to be gay.
I do like how he brags about his 'blue eyes' and 'sturdy stature'. But it's okay because he reminds us of his ancestors’ immigration from the Low Countries to the colony of Pennsylvania to freely practice a fringe take on Protestantism. He's only descended from oldest surviving white colonists, but the Dutch ones not some WASP! They were religious asylum seekers! Flight from white: Pennsylvania Dutch edition!Replies: @J.Ross, @Jonathan Mason
Neologism?
Mark 3:31-35 31
Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.” “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.
The incidence presents like a virus and the numbers back it. Wouldn’t surprise me at all.
But the hypothetical gay virus destroys sexual attraction to women and replaces it with sexual attraction to men. Or less often only the latter effect.
It also sometimes but not always makes men’s aesthetic, vocational and recreational interests more like women’s.
What germ is known to do anything remotely like that, while not otherwise having a strong ill effect?Replies: @e, @TWS
Pay attention it’s a virus of the mother
Dr Pottenger induced homosexuality in the offspring of poorly fed cats.
Have we seen a rise in homosexuality in "decadent eras"? That may not be entirely a moral phenomenon but also a typical degradation of diet of those eras, leading to nutritional degeneration.
https://www.scribd.com/document/60700924/Pottenger-Cat-Study
Also see the magnum opus of Dr. Price:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/544354.Nutrition_and_Physical_DegenerationReplies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
Soy milk.
Bright guy who did good work but whose importance has been exaggerated because he was gay.
FIFY.
Historically Hispanic culture wasn’t one where women took the lead in kicking ass and taking names. Shame on you, Alfonso Vasquez.
I know it's just anecdotal; but I'll share anyway. Way back around 1980 I picked up an aunt's soon to be 2nd husband from the Alameda Navy dock. The soon to be uncle gave me a short tour around the ship he was stationed on, and off we went in my fathers '72 Pinto wagon. He was a very pleasant, straight forward guy. But within minutes of meeting him I began to wonder why my aunt was going to marry a "gay" guy? It wasn't anything he was saying, he wasn't hitting on me: it was just obvious, plain as day to me. I never got another chance to speak directly with him again, and my sister was the only person I shared the observation with.
Twenty years later I went to a reunion were I met my two grown cousins from that union at a wedding. One of the two boys was/is an "out" gay. The wedding was my cousin Jenny's, from the same aunts 1st marriage. I had met the groom a few days prior to the wedding. Again a pleasant man, but again struck me right away as gay. Of that union there are two daughters, one of whom is an "out" lesbian.
What are the odds, I surely don't know; but I'd bet bottom dollar 23&me will have a reasonable estimate on that soon.
BTW - I know I'm sick, but did anyone else see that pic of Kellyanne Conway with her tongue out on Drudge and feel a tinge?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48136229186_0cea60c081_m.jpgReplies: @Hibernian
Thing is, the people (Mom and Dad) from whom we get our nature (DNA) are also the ones from whom we get the vast majority of our nurture. I think this is relevant both to the race/IQ question and the “Why are gays gay?” question.
This? Why I could make a hat, or a brooch, a pterodactyl.
I suspect that there are genetic factors that make one prone to same sex attraction but there are also environment factors, which trigger it.
Yet NY’s De Blasio’s wife was cured of the rug munching.