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Rob K. Henderson quotes Seth Stephens-Davidowitz’s new data mining book Don’t Trust Your Gut:

“Male lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors get more messages than men who earn similar incomes, have similar educations, are equally attractive, and are the same height. Lawyers would be less attractive if they were accountants.”

I’m guessing that the common denominator in all this is that there are lots of TV shows and movies about lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors. Maybe women figure they could ask better questions of some guy with a TV show job than of, say, an actuary.

An interesting study would compare the differences between women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen. Cops tend to have darker, more Batman-like personalities, whereas firemen identify more with Superman.

I owe the title pun to @HomoPedalius.

 
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  1. Guns ‘N’ Hoses

    Guns ‘n’ hosers. Happy Canada Day!

    As they say in Québec, phoque off!

    • LOL: Verymuchalive
    • Replies: @duncsbaby
    @Reg Cæsar

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jm4LoOaAWI

    , @Another Canadian
    @Reg Cæsar

    "No shenanigans this weekend." - Doug Ford

    https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2022/06/30/doug-ford-warns-ottawa-protesters-no-shenanigans-this-weekend.html

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Known Fact
    @Reg Cæsar

    Time to crank up Canada's Metal Queen!

    https://youtu.be/nNEoLt9_DjY

    , @The Alarmist
    @Reg Cæsar

    Canadian club, the brand of discerning baby seals.

  2. Anonymous[150] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve writes:
    “”
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    “”

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one’s children’s reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man’s biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters’.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father’s input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men’s wars. Rich men’s sons get “university exemptions” or “bone spur” diagnoses from daddy’s doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have “access” to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Anonymous

    Biologically programmed? How? I believe the theory that male swimmers are slower than female swimmers has been debunked. So does age make all swimmers equally slow to reach their target? Or is the egg that decides which swimmer gets the reward?

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Anonymous


    Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father’s input, or lack thereof.
     
    Reproducing versus reproducing well.
    , @ic1000
    @Anonymous

    > The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.)

    I hadn't heard that, anon[150]. It was surprisingly hard to locate research on the subject -- looks like this was a live question in the 1990s, and was then largely forgotten.

    Satoshi Kanazawa wrote about this in 2011 in Psychology Ptoday, before it went fully woke. (Kanazawa was an early #CancelCulture victim on a different topic, typical Lysenkoist gloating here.) Unfortunately, references and graphs are missing from the archived article. He wrote,


    ... there is a general decline in the proportion of sons as the parents get older. Teenage parents are particularly likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .5327, and older parents over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3557. Two-thirds of children born to parents over 40 are girls! ... Each year in the parent’s age decreases the odds of having a son as the first child by 1%.

    As you can see in the following two graphs, the association between the age of the parents and the sex of the first child is stronger among women than among men... However, the graph below clearly shows that fathers over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3592.
     

    On the other hand, in pre-woke Scientific American, Marc Weisskopf wrote,

    In most industrialized countries about 105 boys are born for every 100 girls, for a ratio of 1.05, known as the secondary sex ratio, or SSR; the primary sex ratio is the ratio at conception. This is often expressed as the percentage of boys among all births, or about 51.2%...

    The chance of having a boy appears to decline with the mother's age, the father's age and the number of children the family already has. These effects are small. One study in Denmark found that the SSR of children born to fathers younger than 25 was 51.6%, which decreased to 51.0% among children of fathers at least 40 years of age.
     

    Table III of that 1999 study by Rune Jacobsen et al. of about 700,000 Danish births must be the source of the data that Weisskopf refers to. While the results are statistically significant (P=0.02), the change in SSR between dads of age 13-24 and those over 40 is negligible in practical terms.

    Kanazawa's and Weisskopf's summaries are in conflict -- I don't know which is correct.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Pixo

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous


    Rich men’s sons get “university exemptions” or “bone spur” diagnoses from daddy’s doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers.....
     
    Nowadays in Naval Intelligence, which seems to be the Branch/MOS of choice for resume-building would-be politicians and their off-spring. Either that or JAG.
    , @Spangel226
    @Anonymous

    Does this only happen with humans? Or is it something that happens across species, specifically in species with low paternal investment? If it also happens in species with low paternal investment, then I would guess it has nothing to do with boys needing fathers. It could simply be an artifice of there being increased mutations as an organism ages. More mutations on the Y chromosome could lead to more males dying in utero. This is less of a problem for females since there are two X chromosomes so perhaps a bad mutation on one can sometimes be mitigated by the other X chromosome since bad mutations are not likely to occur on exactly the same gene for two separate individuals.

    , @Anon
    @Anonymous

    Paternal age has nothing to do with the gender of offspring. Gender is determined in the womb; sperm is genderless.

    , @Anon
    @Anonymous

    A bunch of Just-So speculation and gobbledygook. "Evolutionary Psychology" is catnip to armchair theorizers.

    Replies: @Curle

  3. anonymous[215] • Disclaimer says:

    Firefighters make way more than all but a slim minority of lawyers.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @anonymous

    Hell, even a slight majority of teachers make more than most lawyers.

    , @Spangel226
    @anonymous

    My guess is that firefighters and cops attract women for reasons that have little to do with their income. Doctors and lawyers probably attract women because of their income and status, but the reason they attract more women than others who earn similarly is that women have little knowledge about others who earn similarly. How do they know a small business owner makes as much as a surgeon without already knowing that business owner fairly well?

    If women knew that some musician earned as much as a doctor, I would guess that the musician would get many times the amount of messages as the doctor.

    , @kicktheroos
    @anonymous

    biggest scam on taxpayers are the firefighters , these guys should be sent to fight forest fires instead of sitting cozy at their stations doing BBQ,s or drinking coffee at starbucks or being sent out to do minor paramedic work anything but fighting real fires, the real firefighters are inmates getting paid 2 bucks per hour, these high paying jobs are reserved for low IQ legacy people who are of a large european island stock, all whites are in on the scam from the media who lionise these otherwise losers to white voters.

    Replies: @gregor, @J.Ross, @Anonymous

  4. Pixo says:

    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    • Agree: George
    • LOL: Bruno
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Pixo


    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor.
     
    Pediatricians and family doctors have low income (often barely better than higher tiers of nurses) and deal with a lot of cranky children, parents, and off-hour calls. They have low job satisfaction rates. And, yes, it's a very feminine field.

    The specialty with the highest satisfaction rates among physicians is ER work. Patients are often very grateful, hours are set, and when you are done with your shift, you are done.

    Among doctors, I'd say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    Young cops get insane amount of casual interactions with the ladies. Younger women, anyway, seem to really like the physical fitness, the sense of authority, the uniform, and the gun that cops carry. They don't draw, though, the higher socio-economic class of women. It's always the nurses, the teachers, the secretaries, and such.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Whereismyhandle, @Hapalong Cassidy, @jonnyboy, @kaganovitch

    , @reactionry
    @Pixo

    "Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions."

    IDK much about the IDF, but "Guns 'N' Hoses" is funnier than the classic "Guns N' Moses" - which might be found in many tee-shirt wardrobes alongside "Uzi Does It."

    Excerpted from Ernie Sowson's doggerel, "Double-Dipping N' Over-Tippling" (the tragic tale of a policewoman and a fireman who after meeting repeatedly on the job, get married and then retire before becoming alcoholics while working at a bar):

    They are not long, careers of Gun N' Hose,
    Out of good intentions
    Their paths converge at times, then
    Close
    With their pensions

    , @George
    @Pixo

    Total compensation is the important measure not salary. Government workers have also had more reliable incomes. Health insurance arrangements might be a better proxy for marriage prospects. It is possible police and other government workers are better at dealing with people in general.

    Replies: @HammerJack

    , @SFG
    @Pixo

    The conservative intellectual’s fantasy. You get a smart woman without the awful politics smart women have nowadays. How realistic it is I don’t know.

    Replies: @Pixo

    , @Carol
    @Pixo

    My parent married an LAFD fireman. He was 6-6 and had red hair. He snow skied, water skied, played handball, did construction work on his days off, and was a good dancer.

    The marriage lasted two years but they'd been seeing each other *on and off* for 20 yrs. His worst trait, she said, was his terrible prejudice against negroes. Esp after the Watts riots and all. What to do?

    After the divorce he retired with that insane pension and married someone else.

    , @Haxo Angmark
    @Pixo

    "cops and firemen in good shape"

    no on 1, yes on 2.

    , @Simon in London
    @Pixo

    My girl is an interpreter, definitely a very attractive profession for a female IMO.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Bill Jones

    , @Jokah Macpherson
    @Pixo

    I think Steve has mentioned that even Mick Jagger can make being Mick Jagger sound boring and practical in everyday conversation. Touring logistics and the like.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Pixo

    It has nothing to with money or intelligence.

    The common denominator to all those attractive jobs is that they involve interacting with the world and changing it--i.e., imposing yourself, making your mark... This is also why there are TV shows about those jobs--you can create human drama around their activity. Accountants just sit and think. Not dramatic and not sexy.

    I guarantee that if you asked women about a criminal trial lawyer vs, say, a patent attorney, the trial lawyer would be much sexier.

  5. I would disagree that female attraction to men w/these jobs is based on tv viewing. The attraction was there before tv viewing came into play. Most women are attracted to strong, successful, men.

    Btw, I first came across the “guns & hoses” tag line in a Nelson DeMille novel, “The Lion’s Game,” where the airport emergency squad is made up of firemen and policemen who do both jobs and call themselves, “Guns and Hoses.”

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @duncsbaby

    I'll just leave this here...

    https://www.businessinsider.com/2009/1/study-rich-men-give-women-more-orgasms?op=1

    , @Discordiax
    @duncsbaby

    I suspect the female interest and the TV shows are effects of the same causes--those occupations lend themselves to drama and heroics.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    , @Legba
    @duncsbaby

    I would just add that the tv shows probably came about BECAUSE the jobs seem glamorous and to guys, too

  6. @Reg Cæsar
    Guns 'N' Hoses

    Guns 'n' hosers. Happy Canada Day!



    https://www.ecowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/701161859-origin.jpg


    As they say in Québec, phoque off!

    Replies: @duncsbaby, @Another Canadian, @Known Fact, @The Alarmist

  7. There are elements of competition and status being glossed over. All of those professions require contest (two in the simplest sense of rocking a bad guy, one against dangerous circumstances, two verbally), mastery of topic and situation, interaction with strangers (which means extraversion is not required but shows up a lot), and all deal with emergencies. So really all he’s demonstrating is that money by itself isn’t good enough. Did someone say it was?

    • Replies: @Andrew M
    @J.Ross

    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).

    Replies: @animalogic, @J.Ross, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @scrivener3

    , @animalogic
    @J.Ross

    "So really all he’s demonstrating is that money by itself isn’t good enough. Did someone say it was?"
    I'm not so sure.
    At a certain level of wealth one becomes a "business man". A "business man" is attractive, not least for their wealth.
    That Ferrari, the holiday home on the beach & the private jet are a massive turn-on for "some" women.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  8. women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen

    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren’t blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of “sexy firefighter” calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that’s it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn’t a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few “haters” into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @R.G. Camara


    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential.
     
    You underestimate how much the uniform gives the cop an edge over a fireman. Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull.

    Replies: @SFG, @LP5, @SunBakedSuburb

    , @animalogic
    @R.G. Camara

    I think you're pretty spot on.
    "and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture. "
    No fireman in a nightclub needs to lie about their occupation -- same (whether fair or not) can't be said for police....

    Replies: @James J. O'Meara

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @R.G. Camara

    George Straight sings it better than you say it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCpUHv2Q_5w&t=9s

    , @TWS
    @R.G. Camara

    Cops get to most fires and they get there first. I don't know an officer who hasn't ran into a burning building. And, 'leather-lung' without a mask or tank.

    Firemen are usually in better shape unless the cop makes a serious effort. The job is simply more physical and the tests were notoriously hard. Because they have to admit women, the tests have gotten much easier.

    Plus, while there are a few volunteer police officers, there are many volunteer firemen. Most small towns or rural areas only pay the chief and maybe the engineer. It's not the money, it's the jobs that attract women.

    I have mentioned this before here but I don't expect folks to remember details about all of the stuff we post. Anyway I taught martial arts and self defense before I was a police officer. It's part of why I took the job, so many of my students were cops. And I was in very good shape.

    After I got the badge, women who I had previously known as friends started throwing themselves at me. In some cases these were women who I had already politely declined previous offers. Heck, my wife showed more interest!

    Police have power and visible signs of power. Women are attracted to it. Being in shape and being capable of violence doesn't hurt. No woman is attracted to the pension many, many officers expect the kids of their third or fifth wife to be getting a chunk of whatever they are getting anyway.

    TV doesn't hurt, because it reinforced the message, 'cops have power '. It used to reinforce the message that cops were good investigators and had uncanny instincts but now on TV most of investigation and interrogation is done by 'forensic teams' of quirky autists and bisexual women with borderline mental illness haircuts.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @R.G. Camara


    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.
     
    Firefighters have to stay in shape. My observational data is this is merely a personal optional choice for police officers. I am not a woman so am not qualified to opine on who I would shag except it does seem pretty obvious.
    , @ScarletNumber
    @R.G. Camara

    To be fair, cops are evil and racist

    , @Spangel226
    @R.G. Camara

    Do women like detectives? Not sure of the fictional desirability of detectives reflects a male fantasy or a female one.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson, @anonymous

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @R.G. Camara


    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.
     
    Meri Wilson had more esoteric tastes:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MahswYBewb0

    Replies: @Thomm

  9. Sex and the City had an obligatory “hot fireman” episode.

  10. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor.

    Pediatricians and family doctors have low income (often barely better than higher tiers of nurses) and deal with a lot of cranky children, parents, and off-hour calls. They have low job satisfaction rates. And, yes, it’s a very feminine field.

    The specialty with the highest satisfaction rates among physicians is ER work. Patients are often very grateful, hours are set, and when you are done with your shift, you are done.

    Among doctors, I’d say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    Young cops get insane amount of casual interactions with the ladies. Younger women, anyway, seem to really like the physical fitness, the sense of authority, the uniform, and the gun that cops carry. They don’t draw, though, the higher socio-economic class of women. It’s always the nurses, the teachers, the secretaries, and such.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Twinkie

    Fair point, on balance, but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.

    This source reports median income for US pediatricians two years ago as $213 k, with 75% of them earning more than $185 k. That’s “not a lot for doctors” by US standards, but it’s definitely not a low income. Even a pediatrician in the 25th percentile of pediatrician income earns more than 88% of US HOUSEHOLDS (many of which have two people working full-time).

    USA Household Income Percentile Calculator:
    https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

    As for nurses, there are different nursing credentials and roles. Even a mediocre RN usually gets all the hours he/she wants, including overtime, not to mention the great cash available to travelling nurses. We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).

    In terms of job security and hence the ability to have peace of mind and consistently save/invest to build wealth, a married couple consisting of a cop and an RN, or a firefighter and a pediatrician, will be near the top of the entire otherwise-SCREWED AND SCRAPING-BY US populace.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie, @TWS, @LP5

    , @Whereismyhandle
    @Twinkie

    Medical specialties have very different personalities and reputations.

    Orthopedic surgeons are the jock alpha males of medicine. Plastics guys probably crush it.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    My sister, a real type-a female doctor, really likes working with radiologists bc they're chill, introverted nerds.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Right_On

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Twinkie

    I also heard that Dermatologists have very high job satisfaction rates. It is the specialty with the best work hours (typical 9-5 with very little call) and is generally low stress. It is also one of the most competitive residencies for graduating medical students to land. So you get a lot of the most intelligent doctors going into a specialty that, with the exception of skin cancer diagnosis and treatment, doesn’t really save a whole lot of lives.

    Replies: @James J. O'Meara

    , @jonnyboy
    @Twinkie

    2 lies in this post: any physician specialty making comparable money to a nurse outside of some very far outlying exceptions and ed patients being generally grateful to ed physicians

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @kaganovitch
    @Twinkie

    Among doctors, I’d say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    That their specialty ranks close to the highest compensation among Drs. (north of 600K on average), doesn't do any harm either.

  11. Anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:

    I think actuaries are the only professionals that have to demonstrate active competence and problem solving ability in higher math like calculus, both to qualify as a professional and enter the field, and while on the job.

    Undergrad engineering degrees require going through the calculus sequence, but you can coast by and graduate and then got a job and have a career as an engineer without really knowing calculus or using it on the job. Of course it will depend on the specific job or career, and it won’t mean you’ll be a good engineer. On the other hand, it won’t necessarily mean that you’ll be a bad one either.

    The only other field I can think of like actuaries in requiring higher math would be “quants” i.e. quantitative analysts or financial engineers, although that is much more of a niche field and not really an established professional.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Anonymous

    I've worked with a few actuaries. Great guys but nerdish enough that non-nerds stand out.

    But they will not be the first to make a move when out on the town, indeed they won't be out on the town at all.

    I had a colleague who was a ladies man (not the one who propositioned drunken strangers). He would tell girls at clubs he was a bricklayer or a plumber - anything but IT - he said it was a real conversation-killer. I imagine "actuary" would be even more so.


    "What do you do?"

    "I'm an actuary"

    "What's that?"

    *** twenty minutes of explanation, hopefully not involving Ito's Lemma ***

    "I must just dash to the loo"
     

    On the other hand, "I work in finance. It's really boring but the money's good" and you're half way there. All a matter of presentation.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson

    , @TWS
    @Anonymous

    Road deputies and highway patrolmen used to have to be able to calculate the coefficient of friction and all the angles in multiple car accidents. Snow, rain, mud, gravel, and even milk have been factors.

    Now I'm sure the computer does most of that but when I started you had to be able to do all that math your teacher told you, you would need.

    , @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Anonymous

    The only other field I can think of like actuaries in requiring higher math would be “quants” i.e. quantitative analysts or financial engineers, although that is much more of a niche field and not really an established professional.
     

    I mentioned this in another post on the iSteve blog. Your typical Wall St. quant guy today has a PhD in applied math, computer science, or physics. Very smart, and almost exclusively guys. They make huge scratch if they are good.

    The answer to the question "What is the most important development in finance in the last 50 years?'

    is not

    "The repeal of Glass Steagall" or

    "the development of ETFs" or

    the "triumph of the Discount Broker."

    Nope, it's the day Congress voted NOT to fund the Large Hadron Collider in Texas -- and it went to Cern.

    It was supposed to the great fulltime employment opportunity for an entire generation of American physicists, so they shrugged their shoulders and said "oh well" and decamped to Wall St. and we got program trading and a host of other intra day and intra minute price movement strategies that account for a gigantic share of daily trading volume.

  12. HomoPedalius – is that Pete Buttigieg on a bicycle?

    • LOL: Peter Johnson
    • Replies: @James J. O'Meara
    @RadicalCenter

    It's a workout bike.

    https://youtu.be/7bmyGI6qQwc

  13. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    “Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions.”

    IDK much about the IDF, but “Guns ‘N’ Hoses” is funnier than the classic “Guns N’ Moses” – which might be found in many tee-shirt wardrobes alongside “Uzi Does It.”

    [MORE]

    Excerpted from Ernie Sowson’s doggerel, “Double-Dipping N’ Over-Tippling” (the tragic tale of a policewoman and a fireman who after meeting repeatedly on the job, get married and then retire before becoming alcoholics while working at a bar):

    They are not long, careers of Gun N’ Hose,
    Out of good intentions
    Their paths converge at times, then
    Close
    With their pensions

  14. @Twinkie
    @Pixo


    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor.
     
    Pediatricians and family doctors have low income (often barely better than higher tiers of nurses) and deal with a lot of cranky children, parents, and off-hour calls. They have low job satisfaction rates. And, yes, it's a very feminine field.

    The specialty with the highest satisfaction rates among physicians is ER work. Patients are often very grateful, hours are set, and when you are done with your shift, you are done.

    Among doctors, I'd say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    Young cops get insane amount of casual interactions with the ladies. Younger women, anyway, seem to really like the physical fitness, the sense of authority, the uniform, and the gun that cops carry. They don't draw, though, the higher socio-economic class of women. It's always the nurses, the teachers, the secretaries, and such.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Whereismyhandle, @Hapalong Cassidy, @jonnyboy, @kaganovitch

    Fair point, on balance, but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.

    This source reports median income for US pediatricians two years ago as \$213 k, with 75% of them earning more than \$185 k. That’s “not a lot for doctors” by US standards, but it’s definitely not a low income. Even a pediatrician in the 25th percentile of pediatrician income earns more than 88% of US HOUSEHOLDS (many of which have two people working full-time).

    USA Household Income Percentile Calculator:
    https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

    As for nurses, there are different nursing credentials and roles. Even a mediocre RN usually gets all the hours he/she wants, including overtime, not to mention the great cash available to travelling nurses. We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).

    In terms of job security and hence the ability to have peace of mind and consistently save/invest to build wealth, a married couple consisting of a cop and an RN, or a firefighter and a pediatrician, will be near the top of the entire otherwise-SCREWED AND SCRAPING-BY US populace.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @RadicalCenter

    Cop-nurse couples do quite well for themselves in terms of income. They tend to be competent individuals who take on unpleasant jobs in return for a decent salary.

    , @Twinkie
    @RadicalCenter


    but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.
     
    I meant low income for a physician.

    median income for US pediatricians two years ago as $213 k, with 75% of them earning more than $185 k.
     
    After 4yrs of college, 4yrs of med school 4yrs of residency plus an average of $200k of school debt, that’s a rather low level of compensation for someone with that cognitive profile and education/training duration. If she lives in a super zip where average 2500 sq ft home is 800k, that quickly becomes hand-to-mouth. She better marry someone who makes more if she wants to put her kids in private schools.

    We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).
     
    CRNAs make $200k and up in my area. Yes, they make more than many peds and IM docs, granted CRNAs get much more training than other nurses.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @TWS
    @RadicalCenter

    My sister who was a cardiac nurse made more than my wife and I put together.

    If I had known that going in, I might have considered a career move.

    , @LP5
    @RadicalCenter

    Nursing downside, all those years on their feet. Bad ankles, knees, hips. Weight gain. Many older nurses were smokers, too. A lot of stress from helping those patients and doctors. Some professions, like some jobs, wear out bodies.

  15. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    Total compensation is the important measure not salary. Government workers have also had more reliable incomes. Health insurance arrangements might be a better proxy for marriage prospects. It is possible police and other government workers are better at dealing with people in general.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @George


    Total compensation is the important measure not salary. Government workers have also had more reliable incomes. Health insurance arrangements might be a better proxy for marriage prospects.
     
    If you're a government worker, she'll appreciate the benefits, but she'll probably cheat on you. No one respects a bureaucrat, nor should they.
  16. Link to the tweet (I’m assuming it’s a tweet) or whatever

  17. OT — Does anyone have a copy of Harold Saltzman’s 1972 book Race War in High School which they want to scan (& convert to PDF) or sell for less than two hundred dollars? Alternately, have you seen this book around online?

    • Replies: @epebble
    @J.Ross

    There is a used copy for $64

    Race war in high school;: The ten-year destruction of Franklin K. Lane High School in Brooklyn Loose Leaf – January 1, 1972
    by Harold Saltzman (Author)

    Hardcover
    $189.32

    Loose Leaf
    $63.96

    https://www.amazon.com/Race-war-high-school-destruction/dp/0870001701

    Replies: @J.Ross

  18. @RadicalCenter
    @Twinkie

    Fair point, on balance, but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.

    This source reports median income for US pediatricians two years ago as $213 k, with 75% of them earning more than $185 k. That’s “not a lot for doctors” by US standards, but it’s definitely not a low income. Even a pediatrician in the 25th percentile of pediatrician income earns more than 88% of US HOUSEHOLDS (many of which have two people working full-time).

    USA Household Income Percentile Calculator:
    https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

    As for nurses, there are different nursing credentials and roles. Even a mediocre RN usually gets all the hours he/she wants, including overtime, not to mention the great cash available to travelling nurses. We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).

    In terms of job security and hence the ability to have peace of mind and consistently save/invest to build wealth, a married couple consisting of a cop and an RN, or a firefighter and a pediatrician, will be near the top of the entire otherwise-SCREWED AND SCRAPING-BY US populace.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie, @TWS, @LP5

    Cop-nurse couples do quite well for themselves in terms of income. They tend to be competent individuals who take on unpleasant jobs in return for a decent salary.

    • Agree: stari_momak
  19. @Anonymous
    I think actuaries are the only professionals that have to demonstrate active competence and problem solving ability in higher math like calculus, both to qualify as a professional and enter the field, and while on the job.

    Undergrad engineering degrees require going through the calculus sequence, but you can coast by and graduate and then got a job and have a career as an engineer without really knowing calculus or using it on the job. Of course it will depend on the specific job or career, and it won't mean you'll be a good engineer. On the other hand, it won't necessarily mean that you'll be a bad one either.

    The only other field I can think of like actuaries in requiring higher math would be "quants" i.e. quantitative analysts or financial engineers, although that is much more of a niche field and not really an established professional.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon, @TWS, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @Steve Sailer


    insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.
     
    That part is meant to be humorous, I'm figuring.
    , @AceDeuce
    @Steve Sailer

    Agatha Christie (although she later denied that she said it) is credited with saying that archeologists
    (such as her second husband) made the best husbands. The older that a woman got, the more interested he would be in her.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    , @ic1000
    @Steve Sailer

    N=1, the actuary I know is married to a hard-working, smart, pleasant, petite, blonde colleague, 2 kids. Very assortative.

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Steve Sailer

    I've only known one actuary personally. He was a smart, introverted, dull, and slightly smug guy. He had a long-term live-in girlfriend (woman-friend, really, they were in their 40s when I knew them), who I didn't think was all that but other men seemed to find her interesting. One day, she up and left him for a cattle rancher. No one ever inquired about his wellbeing. I have no idea what became of him after that. With luck, found a better woman, ... but he never struck me as lucky. Maybe he went the mail order route. Or maybe a pioneer incel.

    FWIW.

    Replies: @Another Canadian, @R.G. Camara, @Bill Jones

    , @Anon
    @Steve Sailer

    I thought I’ve known a couple educated women but I can’t imagine them having any questions (let alone informed ones) for an actuary. Where the hell are you hanging out Steve?!

    , @kaganovitch
    @Steve Sailer

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is.

    Also one of the rare non-gay guys who will be interested in your shoes.

    , @Recently Based
    @Steve Sailer

    My closest 4 friends in high school all became actuaries (and I became a math major). We had probably the most intense high school poker game you could imagine.

    Two of these four guys have had nervous breakdowns and are living as something close to vagrants now. The other two are married to good/great-looking women and are living terrific lives. One of them (who was the smartest) has become a senior insurance industry executive.

    Who knows, I guess?

    , @Thomm
    @Steve Sailer


    Maybe women figure they could ask better questions of some guy with a TV show job than of, say, an actuary.
     
    It is not about 'asking better questions'. Women are not curious about a man's day to day anyway.

    It is because television has made all male protagonists among those professions listed, so in the female mental model, they see themselves as with men in those professions.

    Once in a blue moon, people like Ross Gellar and Chandler Bing are in professions women have zero curiosity about. But otherwise, television has told women what to think in this matter, just like in all other matters.

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand.
     

    LOL. Steve's age is showing. A man's potential as a dependable upper middle class provider hasn't been useful since the turn of the century. An actuary's income has virtually zero chance of getting him women. Hell, even a CFO can't do well since women haven't seen a lot of CFOs featured on TV as male romantic leads.

    Now women go for raw gina tingles, so the most sought after men are criminals, lowlifes, sociopaths and bartenders (the only law-abiding profession in this group).

    , @Ancient Briton
    @Steve Sailer

    Like questions about Double Indemnity, for instance?

    , @anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Many of the major actuary firms and executives are based in Iowa, Nebraska, and similar locales in the middle of nowhere in flyover country. Aside from consulting actuaries who business travel a lot, or actuaries who work with investment bankers and in M&A, actuaries generally have better hours and work life balance than corporate managers and finance professionals trying to claw their way up the corporate hierarchy.

    Becoming an actuary is difficult, as Milton Friedman describes here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61YLb2V4M6Y

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  20. @duncsbaby
    I would disagree that female attraction to men w/these jobs is based on tv viewing. The attraction was there before tv viewing came into play. Most women are attracted to strong, successful, men.

    Btw, I first came across the "guns & hoses" tag line in a Nelson DeMille novel, "The Lion's Game," where the airport emergency squad is made up of firemen and policemen who do both jobs and call themselves, "Guns and Hoses."

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Discordiax, @Legba

  21. @Twinkie
    @Pixo


    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor.
     
    Pediatricians and family doctors have low income (often barely better than higher tiers of nurses) and deal with a lot of cranky children, parents, and off-hour calls. They have low job satisfaction rates. And, yes, it's a very feminine field.

    The specialty with the highest satisfaction rates among physicians is ER work. Patients are often very grateful, hours are set, and when you are done with your shift, you are done.

    Among doctors, I'd say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    Young cops get insane amount of casual interactions with the ladies. Younger women, anyway, seem to really like the physical fitness, the sense of authority, the uniform, and the gun that cops carry. They don't draw, though, the higher socio-economic class of women. It's always the nurses, the teachers, the secretaries, and such.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Whereismyhandle, @Hapalong Cassidy, @jonnyboy, @kaganovitch

    Medical specialties have very different personalities and reputations.

    Orthopedic surgeons are the jock alpha males of medicine. Plastics guys probably crush it.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    My sister, a real type-a female doctor, really likes working with radiologists bc they’re chill, introverted nerds.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Whereismyhandle


    Plastics guys probably crush it.
     
    They are a bit on the shifty side.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.
     
    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.

    radiologists bc they’re chill, introverted nerds.
     
    Weirdos who don’t like patients and stay in the basements of hospitals. ;)

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Right_On
    @Whereismyhandle

    neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    Seen this classic sketch (two minutes long) about a brain surgeon?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I&ab_channel=BBC

    Replies: @Twinkie

  22. @George
    @Pixo

    Total compensation is the important measure not salary. Government workers have also had more reliable incomes. Health insurance arrangements might be a better proxy for marriage prospects. It is possible police and other government workers are better at dealing with people in general.

    Replies: @HammerJack

    Total compensation is the important measure not salary. Government workers have also had more reliable incomes. Health insurance arrangements might be a better proxy for marriage prospects.

    If you’re a government worker, she’ll appreciate the benefits, but she’ll probably cheat on you. No one respects a bureaucrat, nor should they.

  23. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    That part is meant to be humorous, I’m figuring.

  24. @J.Ross
    There are elements of competition and status being glossed over. All of those professions require contest (two in the simplest sense of rocking a bad guy, one against dangerous circumstances, two verbally), mastery of topic and situation, interaction with strangers (which means extraversion is not required but shows up a lot), and all deal with emergencies. So really all he's demonstrating is that money by itself isn't good enough. Did someone say it was?

    Replies: @Andrew M, @animalogic

    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).

    • Replies: @animalogic
    @Andrew M

    "The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).
    Not sure I agree with the "combativeness" point. Depending on your legal role, being a lawyer is almost in essence, combative.
    Whenever there are opposing parties, each represented by their own legal people, there is combat. Lawyers have to fight for their party's interests. If they're not "fighting" they're corrupt or a disgrace.

    , @J.Ross
    @Andrew M

    The most boringly stationed lawyer probably has above average confidence and verbal ability.

    , @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Andrew M


    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).
     
    This depends upon the area of practice but litigation heavy practice areas are combative by their nature because they're adversarial. Trials tend to be rare because you will counsel sane clients that they are in almost all circumstances better off controlling their own destiny by way of settlements than putting their interests in the hands of more or less randomly picked citizens without legal training who don't want to be there. And most non-institutional clients tend to run out of money well before trial. Very trial laden practices tend to be areas where there is high upside/low downside for one party, such as plaintiff's personal injury. It's also the case that some lawyers are in the Courtroom all of the time (i.e., domestic attorneys, criminal practice attorneys) and while others are less frequently there but with high stakes (i.e., commercial litigation attorneys).

    Depositions are generally speaking much more combative than trials, largely because there's no neutral arbiter to govern them. They're also very common. It's just that there's a limited audience.
    , @scrivener3
    @Andrew M

    Adversary is not limited to trial lawyers.

    Each lawyer has to advocate for his client's interests, against other skilled and motivated lawyers, against bureaucrats, against tax authorities, sometimes against your own staff or supervising partner.

    That is more than the normal corporate infighting and career climbing. After retiring I didn't realize how much I hated the constant battle until I helped my sister in law get out of an oppressive real estate listing contract.

    Replies: @Curle

  25. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    Agatha Christie (although she later denied that she said it) is credited with saying that archeologists
    (such as her second husband) made the best husbands. The older that a woman got, the more interested he would be in her.

    • Thanks: Bill Jones
    • LOL: martin_2
    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    @AceDeuce

    Sir Max Mallowan, Christie's second husband, was 26 when he married her. She was 40 ! So there was a certain personal piquancy to the remark !

  26. @RadicalCenter
    @Twinkie

    Fair point, on balance, but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.

    This source reports median income for US pediatricians two years ago as $213 k, with 75% of them earning more than $185 k. That’s “not a lot for doctors” by US standards, but it’s definitely not a low income. Even a pediatrician in the 25th percentile of pediatrician income earns more than 88% of US HOUSEHOLDS (many of which have two people working full-time).

    USA Household Income Percentile Calculator:
    https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

    As for nurses, there are different nursing credentials and roles. Even a mediocre RN usually gets all the hours he/she wants, including overtime, not to mention the great cash available to travelling nurses. We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).

    In terms of job security and hence the ability to have peace of mind and consistently save/invest to build wealth, a married couple consisting of a cop and an RN, or a firefighter and a pediatrician, will be near the top of the entire otherwise-SCREWED AND SCRAPING-BY US populace.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie, @TWS, @LP5

    but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.

    I meant low income for a physician.

    median income for US pediatricians two years ago as \$213 k, with 75% of them earning more than \$185 k.

    After 4yrs of college, 4yrs of med school 4yrs of residency plus an average of \$200k of school debt, that’s a rather low level of compensation for someone with that cognitive profile and education/training duration. If she lives in a super zip where average 2500 sq ft home is 800k, that quickly becomes hand-to-mouth. She better marry someone who makes more if she wants to put her kids in private schools.

    We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).

    CRNAs make \$200k and up in my area. Yes, they make more than many peds and IM docs, granted CRNAs get much more training than other nurses.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie


    If she lives in a super zip
     
    Generally speaking, salaries in super zip areas are going to be higher than the median. Maybe not high enough to fully make up for the difference in housing costs, but still above the median.

    The other thing about super zips is that they are self-selecting. If you don't make enough to afford a house in a super zip then you won't buy a house in a super zip. Maybe you'll work in the super zip and commute from some town where the prices are somewhat lower.

    The other thing is that degrees are not purely about making money. Degrees also earn you respect. People respect doctors more than they respect nurses. You can't take respect to the bank but it's still worth something.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  27. @Whereismyhandle
    @Twinkie

    Medical specialties have very different personalities and reputations.

    Orthopedic surgeons are the jock alpha males of medicine. Plastics guys probably crush it.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    My sister, a real type-a female doctor, really likes working with radiologists bc they're chill, introverted nerds.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Right_On

    Plastics guys probably crush it.

    They are a bit on the shifty side.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.

    radiologists bc they’re chill, introverted nerds.

    Weirdos who don’t like patients and stay in the basements of hospitals. 😉

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie



    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

     

    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.
     
    I've heard the opposite-- that they are held in low regard. Someone else has already done the diagnosis, and they are just connecting the dots.


    Plastics guys probably crush it.

     

    They are a bit on the shifty side.
     

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    , @Muggles
    @Twinkie


    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.
     
    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.

    As for being "smart" sure most are smart enough. Most other physicians regard most (not all) surgeons as the mechanics of the medical world. Knowledgeable -- you hope - about where to cut and stitch, but not necessarily brilliant as to medicine as a whole.

    Other specialists are more highly regarded. Surgeons already know the problem; many other physicians have to first figure that out.

    Many surgeons have poor patient skills, since their work is mainly referral. So arrogant yes but not always prized by their peers.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie



    Plastics guys probably crush it.
     
    They are a bit on the shifty side.
     
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DHGCvJjat1E

    Replies: @Twinkie

  28. @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential.

    You underestimate how much the uniform gives the cop an edge over a fireman. Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Twinkie

    Given the popularity of 50 Shades, nobody’s mentioned the handcuffs?

    , @LP5
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie writes


    Firemen have a reputation for being dull.
     
    Scheduling for firemen is typically 24 on then 48 off. Look at a fireman's calendar and see those diagonal lines showing shifts. Blank days are really a rolling series of weekends. Some of those 24 hour shifts are action-packed, even dangerous. Others are boring. Plenty of free time to pursue and live to enjoy other interests while preparing for that second career.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Twinkie

    "Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull."

    It seems most Americans draw their perceptions of civilian uniformed services personnel from the TeeVee.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  29. @J.Ross
    There are elements of competition and status being glossed over. All of those professions require contest (two in the simplest sense of rocking a bad guy, one against dangerous circumstances, two verbally), mastery of topic and situation, interaction with strangers (which means extraversion is not required but shows up a lot), and all deal with emergencies. So really all he's demonstrating is that money by itself isn't good enough. Did someone say it was?

    Replies: @Andrew M, @animalogic

    “So really all he’s demonstrating is that money by itself isn’t good enough. Did someone say it was?”
    I’m not so sure.
    At a certain level of wealth one becomes a “business man”. A “business man” is attractive, not least for their wealth.
    That Ferrari, the holiday home on the beach & the private jet are a massive turn-on for “some” women.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @animalogic

    A “business man” is attractive, not least for their wealth.

    No. No, and less so now that chicks have their own bankrolls. Elliott Rodger had plenty of money.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Hermes

  30. @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    I think you’re pretty spot on.
    “and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture. ”
    No fireman in a nightclub needs to lie about their occupation — same (whether fair or not) can’t be said for police….

    • Replies: @James J. O'Meara
    @animalogic

    Better than being a Treasury agent. Well, who would claim to be that, who was not? Hmm?

    https://youtu.be/1WFRUQTWowU

  31. Seth Stephens-Davidowitz’s

    Shouldn’t that be Guns “N” Noses !

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Verymuchalive

    Barrels and Nozzles.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

  32. @Anonymous
    Steve writes:
    ""
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    ""

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one's children's reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man's biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters'.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father's input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men's wars. Rich men's sons get "university exemptions" or "bone spur" diagnoses from daddy's doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have "access" to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri, @ic1000, @Mr. Anon, @Spangel226, @Anon, @Anon

    Biologically programmed? How? I believe the theory that male swimmers are slower than female swimmers has been debunked. So does age make all swimmers equally slow to reach their target? Or is the egg that decides which swimmer gets the reward?

  33. @AceDeuce
    @Steve Sailer

    Agatha Christie (although she later denied that she said it) is credited with saying that archeologists
    (such as her second husband) made the best husbands. The older that a woman got, the more interested he would be in her.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    Sir Max Mallowan, Christie’s second husband, was 26 when he married her. She was 40 ! So there was a certain personal piquancy to the remark !

  34. @Andrew M
    @J.Ross

    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).

    Replies: @animalogic, @J.Ross, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @scrivener3

    “The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).
    Not sure I agree with the “combativeness” point. Depending on your legal role, being a lawyer is almost in essence, combative.
    Whenever there are opposing parties, each represented by their own legal people, there is combat. Lawyers have to fight for their party’s interests. If they’re not “fighting” they’re corrupt or a disgrace.

  35. @Anonymous
    Steve writes:
    ""
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    ""

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one's children's reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man's biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters'.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father's input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men's wars. Rich men's sons get "university exemptions" or "bone spur" diagnoses from daddy's doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have "access" to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri, @ic1000, @Mr. Anon, @Spangel226, @Anon, @Anon

    Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father’s input, or lack thereof.

    Reproducing versus reproducing well.

  36. @Andrew M
    @J.Ross

    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).

    Replies: @animalogic, @J.Ross, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @scrivener3

    The most boringly stationed lawyer probably has above average confidence and verbal ability.

  37. They call the local Cop-Fireman Boxing Smoker “Guns and Hoses.” I thought that was pretty clever.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Cool Daddy Jimbo

    I'm a professional firefighter, we play a charity hockey game against the police and its called Guns and Hoses

  38. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    N=1, the actuary I know is married to a hard-working, smart, pleasant, petite, blonde colleague, 2 kids. Very assortative.

  39. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    I’ve only known one actuary personally. He was a smart, introverted, dull, and slightly smug guy. He had a long-term live-in girlfriend (woman-friend, really, they were in their 40s when I knew them), who I didn’t think was all that but other men seemed to find her interesting. One day, she up and left him for a cattle rancher. No one ever inquired about his wellbeing. I have no idea what became of him after that. With luck, found a better woman, … but he never struck me as lucky. Maybe he went the mail order route. Or maybe a pioneer incel.

    FWIW.

    • Replies: @Another Canadian
    @Almost Missouri


    One day, she up and left him for a cattle rancher.
     
    Bachelor number 1, 2, 3 or 4?

    https://youtu.be/iQjb_QiFbJE

    , @R.G. Camara
    @Almost Missouri

    Once upon a time, such men would have been in high demand. But since women these days don't want to be wives and mothers and happy, he probably was alone, besides the occasional hooker/ONS. Sad!

    , @Bill Jones
    @Almost Missouri


    but he never struck me as lucky
     
    Perhaps he wasn't, but he'd know the odds.
  40. @Twinkie
    @R.G. Camara


    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential.
     
    You underestimate how much the uniform gives the cop an edge over a fireman. Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull.

    Replies: @SFG, @LP5, @SunBakedSuburb

    Given the popularity of 50 Shades, nobody’s mentioned the handcuffs?

  41. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    The conservative intellectual’s fantasy. You get a smart woman without the awful politics smart women have nowadays. How realistic it is I don’t know.

    • Replies: @Pixo
    @SFG

    Finding smart women with non-woke politics isn’t hard in my experience. Full on woke smart women also tend to heavily mutilate themselves with piercings and tats, and are easy to avoid. Further, the fact they are smart means they’ve generally figured out that handsome high income white men are fairly conservative, and even in all-Dem big cities will be on the non-woke right edge of the Dems.

    Finding ones like this who (1) want to have multiple children and (2) aren’t taken by future husbands by age 24 (3) aren’t irrationally devoted to their “career”, that’s close to impossible.

    Oddly if you asked me 5 years ago, I would have been a lot more willing to compromise on looks than IQ, I’d have been all over a homely Marie Curie. But I ended up with a woman who is far hotter than I should get, but not especially smart, I’d guess about IQ of 125 based on the fact she was co-valedictorian in a rural HS class of 80, but has math skills of roughly a bright 9th grader and dropped out of a regional state college after a year.

  42. @Twinkie
    @Pixo


    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor.
     
    Pediatricians and family doctors have low income (often barely better than higher tiers of nurses) and deal with a lot of cranky children, parents, and off-hour calls. They have low job satisfaction rates. And, yes, it's a very feminine field.

    The specialty with the highest satisfaction rates among physicians is ER work. Patients are often very grateful, hours are set, and when you are done with your shift, you are done.

    Among doctors, I'd say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    Young cops get insane amount of casual interactions with the ladies. Younger women, anyway, seem to really like the physical fitness, the sense of authority, the uniform, and the gun that cops carry. They don't draw, though, the higher socio-economic class of women. It's always the nurses, the teachers, the secretaries, and such.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Whereismyhandle, @Hapalong Cassidy, @jonnyboy, @kaganovitch

    I also heard that Dermatologists have very high job satisfaction rates. It is the specialty with the best work hours (typical 9-5 with very little call) and is generally low stress. It is also one of the most competitive residencies for graduating medical students to land. So you get a lot of the most intelligent doctors going into a specialty that, with the exception of skin cancer diagnosis and treatment, doesn’t really save a whole lot of lives.

    • Replies: @James J. O'Meara
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    It takes a really big zit to kill a man.

    https://youtu.be/EmzM0bz3PWc

  43. Female primates favor those males who are most likely to be able to best provide for their offspring. Among our hairier relatives, females mate randomly with all male pack members who offer acceptable gifts (meat is the favorite among chimps) but mate only with alpha males when they are in estrus. Because aggressive males commandeer the lion’s share of resources, attraction to aggression in males is instinctive in females of our taxonomic order. The “bad boy” dating phenomenon is well known. Despite our many colorful myths, humans are a naturally evolved primate species whose fundamental social order is based in male dominance hierarchies. What we call civilization has modified the outward enactment of our inherited behavioral characteristics, and that generally only superficially.

    • Thanks: mark green
  44. Incarcerations and conflagrations.

  45. An ex of mine, who was a Jewish goth, had a thing for firefighters.

  46. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    I thought I’ve known a couple educated women but I can’t imagine them having any questions (let alone informed ones) for an actuary. Where the hell are you hanging out Steve?!

  47. @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    George Straight sings it better than you say it.

  48. @Twinkie
    @Pixo


    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor.
     
    Pediatricians and family doctors have low income (often barely better than higher tiers of nurses) and deal with a lot of cranky children, parents, and off-hour calls. They have low job satisfaction rates. And, yes, it's a very feminine field.

    The specialty with the highest satisfaction rates among physicians is ER work. Patients are often very grateful, hours are set, and when you are done with your shift, you are done.

    Among doctors, I'd say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    Young cops get insane amount of casual interactions with the ladies. Younger women, anyway, seem to really like the physical fitness, the sense of authority, the uniform, and the gun that cops carry. They don't draw, though, the higher socio-economic class of women. It's always the nurses, the teachers, the secretaries, and such.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Whereismyhandle, @Hapalong Cassidy, @jonnyboy, @kaganovitch

    2 lies in this post: any physician specialty making comparable money to a nurse outside of some very far outlying exceptions and ed patients being generally grateful to ed physicians

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @jonnyboy


    2 lies in this post: any physician specialty making comparable money to a nurse outside of some very far outlying exceptions
     
    In my super zip, CRNAs often make more money (c. $200K a year) than pediatricians ($185K a year).

    ed patients being generally grateful to ed physicians
     
    ER patients are a heck a lot more grateful than, say, plastic surgery patients.

    If I could show you the patient satisfaction survey from my hospitals...

    Besides, ER docs can walk away once their shifts are over.
  49. I am in full agreement about the perception that cops and fireman are these superhero-y awesome alpha like chads.

    In my personal experience – most cops and fireman are lazy. The older ones are lazy and fat. I have a friend who was a volunteer fireman and when we would go out years ago he would flash his fireman’s badge all the time, with the ladies. It never worked as intended. He is also fat.

  50. @Reg Cæsar
    Guns 'N' Hoses

    Guns 'n' hosers. Happy Canada Day!



    https://www.ecowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/701161859-origin.jpg


    As they say in Québec, phoque off!

    Replies: @duncsbaby, @Another Canadian, @Known Fact, @The Alarmist

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Another Canadian

    Ontario has new fines for encumbering (blocking?) a road, loitering, etc (anti-gathering type ordinances), all for C$1000.

  51. @Almost Missouri
    @Steve Sailer

    I've only known one actuary personally. He was a smart, introverted, dull, and slightly smug guy. He had a long-term live-in girlfriend (woman-friend, really, they were in their 40s when I knew them), who I didn't think was all that but other men seemed to find her interesting. One day, she up and left him for a cattle rancher. No one ever inquired about his wellbeing. I have no idea what became of him after that. With luck, found a better woman, ... but he never struck me as lucky. Maybe he went the mail order route. Or maybe a pioneer incel.

    FWIW.

    Replies: @Another Canadian, @R.G. Camara, @Bill Jones

    One day, she up and left him for a cattle rancher.

    Bachelor number 1, 2, 3 or 4?

  52. @Anonymous
    Steve writes:
    ""
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    ""

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one's children's reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man's biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters'.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father's input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men's wars. Rich men's sons get "university exemptions" or "bone spur" diagnoses from daddy's doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have "access" to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri, @ic1000, @Mr. Anon, @Spangel226, @Anon, @Anon

    > The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.)

    I hadn’t heard that, anon[150]. It was surprisingly hard to locate research on the subject — looks like this was a live question in the 1990s, and was then largely forgotten.

    Satoshi Kanazawa wrote about this in 2011 in Psychology Ptoday, before it went fully woke. (Kanazawa was an early #CancelCulture victim on a different topic, typical Lysenkoist gloating here.) Unfortunately, references and graphs are missing from the archived article. He wrote,

    [MORE]

    … there is a general decline in the proportion of sons as the parents get older. Teenage parents are particularly likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .5327, and older parents over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3557. Two-thirds of children born to parents over 40 are girls! … Each year in the parent’s age decreases the odds of having a son as the first child by 1%.

    As you can see in the following two graphs, the association between the age of the parents and the sex of the first child is stronger among women than among men… However, the graph below clearly shows that fathers over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3592.

    On the other hand, in pre-woke Scientific American, Marc Weisskopf wrote,

    In most industrialized countries about 105 boys are born for every 100 girls, for a ratio of 1.05, known as the secondary sex ratio, or SSR; the primary sex ratio is the ratio at conception. This is often expressed as the percentage of boys among all births, or about 51.2%…

    The chance of having a boy appears to decline with the mother’s age, the father’s age and the number of children the family already has. These effects are small. One study in Denmark found that the SSR of children born to fathers younger than 25 was 51.6%, which decreased to 51.0% among children of fathers at least 40 years of age.

    Table III of that 1999 study by Rune Jacobsen et al. of about 700,000 Danish births must be the source of the data that Weisskopf refers to. While the results are statistically significant (P=0.02), the change in SSR between dads of age 13-24 and those over 40 is negligible in practical terms.

    Kanazawa’s and Weisskopf’s summaries are in conflict — I don’t know which is correct.

    • Thanks: BB753, Charon, Twinkie
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @ic1000

    I never knew that. My brother and I are both the product of parents over 40. We have five older siblings. Statistically at least one of us should have been a girl

    , @Pixo
    @ic1000

    “older parents over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3557.”

    That seems unlikely.

    “Kanazawa’s and Weisskopf’s summaries are in conflict ”

    Weisskopf had a huge 700k data set based on probably high quality records from Denmark.

    I like Kanazawa’s politics, but he struck me as someone who would publish low quality data for clickbait purposes.

  53. @Anonymous
    I think actuaries are the only professionals that have to demonstrate active competence and problem solving ability in higher math like calculus, both to qualify as a professional and enter the field, and while on the job.

    Undergrad engineering degrees require going through the calculus sequence, but you can coast by and graduate and then got a job and have a career as an engineer without really knowing calculus or using it on the job. Of course it will depend on the specific job or career, and it won't mean you'll be a good engineer. On the other hand, it won't necessarily mean that you'll be a bad one either.

    The only other field I can think of like actuaries in requiring higher math would be "quants" i.e. quantitative analysts or financial engineers, although that is much more of a niche field and not really an established professional.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon, @TWS, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    I’ve worked with a few actuaries. Great guys but nerdish enough that non-nerds stand out.

    But they will not be the first to make a move when out on the town, indeed they won’t be out on the town at all.

    I had a colleague who was a ladies man (not the one who propositioned drunken strangers). He would tell girls at clubs he was a bricklayer or a plumber – anything but IT – he said it was a real conversation-killer. I imagine “actuary” would be even more so.

    “What do you do?”

    “I’m an actuary”

    “What’s that?”

    *** twenty minutes of explanation, hopefully not involving Ito’s Lemma ***

    “I must just dash to the loo”

    On the other hand, “I work in finance. It’s really boring but the money’s good” and you’re half way there. All a matter of presentation.

    • Replies: @Jokah Macpherson
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Haha I am kind of in IT and I sometimes tell women I am a garbage collector to entertain myself. The resulting conversations can be interesting.

  54. @anonymous
    Firefighters make way more than all but a slim minority of lawyers.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia, @Spangel226, @kicktheroos

    Hell, even a slight majority of teachers make more than most lawyers.

  55. Anonymous[356] • Disclaimer says:

    Dating is hard.

  56. @Anonymous
    Steve writes:
    ""
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    ""

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one's children's reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man's biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters'.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father's input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men's wars. Rich men's sons get "university exemptions" or "bone spur" diagnoses from daddy's doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have "access" to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri, @ic1000, @Mr. Anon, @Spangel226, @Anon, @Anon

    Rich men’s sons get “university exemptions” or “bone spur” diagnoses from daddy’s doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers…..

    Nowadays in Naval Intelligence, which seems to be the Branch/MOS of choice for resume-building would-be politicians and their off-spring. Either that or JAG.

  57. @Andrew M
    @J.Ross

    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).

    Replies: @animalogic, @J.Ross, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @scrivener3

    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).

    This depends upon the area of practice but litigation heavy practice areas are combative by their nature because they’re adversarial. Trials tend to be rare because you will counsel sane clients that they are in almost all circumstances better off controlling their own destiny by way of settlements than putting their interests in the hands of more or less randomly picked citizens without legal training who don’t want to be there. And most non-institutional clients tend to run out of money well before trial. Very trial laden practices tend to be areas where there is high upside/low downside for one party, such as plaintiff’s personal injury. It’s also the case that some lawyers are in the Courtroom all of the time (i.e., domestic attorneys, criminal practice attorneys) and while others are less frequently there but with high stakes (i.e., commercial litigation attorneys).

    Depositions are generally speaking much more combative than trials, largely because there’s no neutral arbiter to govern them. They’re also very common. It’s just that there’s a limited audience.

  58. I remember seeing a rabbinical discourse on the Mosaic law of self-defense entitled “Guns and Moses”

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @The Only Catholic Unionist

    If you're seriously interested in self-defense Guns n Dozers covers most bases.

  59. OT — Good movies and shows are still being made but they’re generally historicals from outside the Anglosphere. This is 1222 or the Golden Bull, about an Hungarian royal couple doomed by the plotting nobility and hashishiyn.

  60. @ic1000
    @Anonymous

    > The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.)

    I hadn't heard that, anon[150]. It was surprisingly hard to locate research on the subject -- looks like this was a live question in the 1990s, and was then largely forgotten.

    Satoshi Kanazawa wrote about this in 2011 in Psychology Ptoday, before it went fully woke. (Kanazawa was an early #CancelCulture victim on a different topic, typical Lysenkoist gloating here.) Unfortunately, references and graphs are missing from the archived article. He wrote,


    ... there is a general decline in the proportion of sons as the parents get older. Teenage parents are particularly likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .5327, and older parents over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3557. Two-thirds of children born to parents over 40 are girls! ... Each year in the parent’s age decreases the odds of having a son as the first child by 1%.

    As you can see in the following two graphs, the association between the age of the parents and the sex of the first child is stronger among women than among men... However, the graph below clearly shows that fathers over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3592.
     

    On the other hand, in pre-woke Scientific American, Marc Weisskopf wrote,

    In most industrialized countries about 105 boys are born for every 100 girls, for a ratio of 1.05, known as the secondary sex ratio, or SSR; the primary sex ratio is the ratio at conception. This is often expressed as the percentage of boys among all births, or about 51.2%...

    The chance of having a boy appears to decline with the mother's age, the father's age and the number of children the family already has. These effects are small. One study in Denmark found that the SSR of children born to fathers younger than 25 was 51.6%, which decreased to 51.0% among children of fathers at least 40 years of age.
     

    Table III of that 1999 study by Rune Jacobsen et al. of about 700,000 Danish births must be the source of the data that Weisskopf refers to. While the results are statistically significant (P=0.02), the change in SSR between dads of age 13-24 and those over 40 is negligible in practical terms.

    Kanazawa's and Weisskopf's summaries are in conflict -- I don't know which is correct.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Pixo

    I never knew that. My brother and I are both the product of parents over 40. We have five older siblings. Statistically at least one of us should have been a girl

  61. TWS says:
    @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    Cops get to most fires and they get there first. I don’t know an officer who hasn’t ran into a burning building. And, ‘leather-lung’ without a mask or tank.

    Firemen are usually in better shape unless the cop makes a serious effort. The job is simply more physical and the tests were notoriously hard. Because they have to admit women, the tests have gotten much easier.

    Plus, while there are a few volunteer police officers, there are many volunteer firemen. Most small towns or rural areas only pay the chief and maybe the engineer. It’s not the money, it’s the jobs that attract women.

    I have mentioned this before here but I don’t expect folks to remember details about all of the stuff we post. Anyway I taught martial arts and self defense before I was a police officer. It’s part of why I took the job, so many of my students were cops. And I was in very good shape.

    After I got the badge, women who I had previously known as friends started throwing themselves at me. In some cases these were women who I had already politely declined previous offers. Heck, my wife showed more interest!

    Police have power and visible signs of power. Women are attracted to it. Being in shape and being capable of violence doesn’t hurt. No woman is attracted to the pension many, many officers expect the kids of their third or fifth wife to be getting a chunk of whatever they are getting anyway.

    TV doesn’t hurt, because it reinforced the message, ‘cops have power ‘. It used to reinforce the message that cops were good investigators and had uncanny instincts but now on TV most of investigation and interrogation is done by ‘forensic teams’ of quirky autists and bisexual women with borderline mental illness haircuts.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @TWS


    ...borderline mental illness haircuts.
     
    Very good. Tell us some cop stories.
  62. @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Firefighters have to stay in shape. My observational data is this is merely a personal optional choice for police officers. I am not a woman so am not qualified to opine on who I would shag except it does seem pretty obvious.

  63. TWS says:
    @Anonymous
    I think actuaries are the only professionals that have to demonstrate active competence and problem solving ability in higher math like calculus, both to qualify as a professional and enter the field, and while on the job.

    Undergrad engineering degrees require going through the calculus sequence, but you can coast by and graduate and then got a job and have a career as an engineer without really knowing calculus or using it on the job. Of course it will depend on the specific job or career, and it won't mean you'll be a good engineer. On the other hand, it won't necessarily mean that you'll be a bad one either.

    The only other field I can think of like actuaries in requiring higher math would be "quants" i.e. quantitative analysts or financial engineers, although that is much more of a niche field and not really an established professional.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon, @TWS, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    Road deputies and highway patrolmen used to have to be able to calculate the coefficient of friction and all the angles in multiple car accidents. Snow, rain, mud, gravel, and even milk have been factors.

    Now I’m sure the computer does most of that but when I started you had to be able to do all that math your teacher told you, you would need.

  64. @RadicalCenter
    @Twinkie

    Fair point, on balance, but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.

    This source reports median income for US pediatricians two years ago as $213 k, with 75% of them earning more than $185 k. That’s “not a lot for doctors” by US standards, but it’s definitely not a low income. Even a pediatrician in the 25th percentile of pediatrician income earns more than 88% of US HOUSEHOLDS (many of which have two people working full-time).

    USA Household Income Percentile Calculator:
    https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

    As for nurses, there are different nursing credentials and roles. Even a mediocre RN usually gets all the hours he/she wants, including overtime, not to mention the great cash available to travelling nurses. We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).

    In terms of job security and hence the ability to have peace of mind and consistently save/invest to build wealth, a married couple consisting of a cop and an RN, or a firefighter and a pediatrician, will be near the top of the entire otherwise-SCREWED AND SCRAPING-BY US populace.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie, @TWS, @LP5

    My sister who was a cardiac nurse made more than my wife and I put together.

    If I had known that going in, I might have considered a career move.

  65. @Twinkie
    @Pixo


    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor.
     
    Pediatricians and family doctors have low income (often barely better than higher tiers of nurses) and deal with a lot of cranky children, parents, and off-hour calls. They have low job satisfaction rates. And, yes, it's a very feminine field.

    The specialty with the highest satisfaction rates among physicians is ER work. Patients are often very grateful, hours are set, and when you are done with your shift, you are done.

    Among doctors, I'd say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    Young cops get insane amount of casual interactions with the ladies. Younger women, anyway, seem to really like the physical fitness, the sense of authority, the uniform, and the gun that cops carry. They don't draw, though, the higher socio-economic class of women. It's always the nurses, the teachers, the secretaries, and such.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Whereismyhandle, @Hapalong Cassidy, @jonnyboy, @kaganovitch

    Among doctors, I’d say orthopedic surgeons do the best with the ladies. They are often fit, former athletes and have outgoing personalities.

    That their specialty ranks close to the highest compensation among Drs. (north of 600K on average), doesn’t do any harm either.

  66. @Andrew M
    @J.Ross

    Yes: a trial lawyer proves himself in courtroom combat; an actuary doesn’t. But in practice, most lawyers rarely see the inside of a courtroom. The day-to-day work is mostly reading and writing. In terms of combativeness, it’s not much different to being an actuary (or a blogger).

    Replies: @animalogic, @J.Ross, @Alec Leamas (working from home), @scrivener3

    Adversary is not limited to trial lawyers.

    Each lawyer has to advocate for his client’s interests, against other skilled and motivated lawyers, against bureaucrats, against tax authorities, sometimes against your own staff or supervising partner.

    That is more than the normal corporate infighting and career climbing. After retiring I didn’t realize how much I hated the constant battle until I helped my sister in law get out of an oppressive real estate listing contract.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @scrivener3

    “Each lawyer has to advocate for his client’s interests, against other skilled and motivated lawyers,”

    Against the client’s stupidity.

  67. @RadicalCenter
    @Twinkie

    Fair point, on balance, but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.

    This source reports median income for US pediatricians two years ago as $213 k, with 75% of them earning more than $185 k. That’s “not a lot for doctors” by US standards, but it’s definitely not a low income. Even a pediatrician in the 25th percentile of pediatrician income earns more than 88% of US HOUSEHOLDS (many of which have two people working full-time).

    USA Household Income Percentile Calculator:
    https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

    As for nurses, there are different nursing credentials and roles. Even a mediocre RN usually gets all the hours he/she wants, including overtime, not to mention the great cash available to travelling nurses. We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).

    In terms of job security and hence the ability to have peace of mind and consistently save/invest to build wealth, a married couple consisting of a cop and an RN, or a firefighter and a pediatrician, will be near the top of the entire otherwise-SCREWED AND SCRAPING-BY US populace.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Twinkie, @TWS, @LP5

    Nursing downside, all those years on their feet. Bad ankles, knees, hips. Weight gain. Many older nurses were smokers, too. A lot of stress from helping those patients and doctors. Some professions, like some jobs, wear out bodies.

  68. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is.

    Also one of the rare non-gay guys who will be interested in your shoes.

    • LOL: Charon
  69. LP5 says:
    @Twinkie
    @R.G. Camara


    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential.
     
    You underestimate how much the uniform gives the cop an edge over a fireman. Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull.

    Replies: @SFG, @LP5, @SunBakedSuburb

    Twinkie writes

    Firemen have a reputation for being dull.

    Scheduling for firemen is typically 24 on then 48 off. Look at a fireman’s calendar and see those diagonal lines showing shifts. Blank days are really a rolling series of weekends. Some of those 24 hour shifts are action-packed, even dangerous. Others are boring. Plenty of free time to pursue and live to enjoy other interests while preparing for that second career.

  70. Pixo says:
    @SFG
    @Pixo

    The conservative intellectual’s fantasy. You get a smart woman without the awful politics smart women have nowadays. How realistic it is I don’t know.

    Replies: @Pixo

    Finding smart women with non-woke politics isn’t hard in my experience. Full on woke smart women also tend to heavily mutilate themselves with piercings and tats, and are easy to avoid. Further, the fact they are smart means they’ve generally figured out that handsome high income white men are fairly conservative, and even in all-Dem big cities will be on the non-woke right edge of the Dems.

    Finding ones like this who (1) want to have multiple children and (2) aren’t taken by future husbands by age 24 (3) aren’t irrationally devoted to their “career”, that’s close to impossible.

    Oddly if you asked me 5 years ago, I would have been a lot more willing to compromise on looks than IQ, I’d have been all over a homely Marie Curie. But I ended up with a woman who is far hotter than I should get, but not especially smart, I’d guess about IQ of 125 based on the fact she was co-valedictorian in a rural HS class of 80, but has math skills of roughly a bright 9th grader and dropped out of a regional state college after a year.

  71. Pixo says:
    @ic1000
    @Anonymous

    > The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.)

    I hadn't heard that, anon[150]. It was surprisingly hard to locate research on the subject -- looks like this was a live question in the 1990s, and was then largely forgotten.

    Satoshi Kanazawa wrote about this in 2011 in Psychology Ptoday, before it went fully woke. (Kanazawa was an early #CancelCulture victim on a different topic, typical Lysenkoist gloating here.) Unfortunately, references and graphs are missing from the archived article. He wrote,


    ... there is a general decline in the proportion of sons as the parents get older. Teenage parents are particularly likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .5327, and older parents over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3557. Two-thirds of children born to parents over 40 are girls! ... Each year in the parent’s age decreases the odds of having a son as the first child by 1%.

    As you can see in the following two graphs, the association between the age of the parents and the sex of the first child is stronger among women than among men... However, the graph below clearly shows that fathers over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3592.
     

    On the other hand, in pre-woke Scientific American, Marc Weisskopf wrote,

    In most industrialized countries about 105 boys are born for every 100 girls, for a ratio of 1.05, known as the secondary sex ratio, or SSR; the primary sex ratio is the ratio at conception. This is often expressed as the percentage of boys among all births, or about 51.2%...

    The chance of having a boy appears to decline with the mother's age, the father's age and the number of children the family already has. These effects are small. One study in Denmark found that the SSR of children born to fathers younger than 25 was 51.6%, which decreased to 51.0% among children of fathers at least 40 years of age.
     

    Table III of that 1999 study by Rune Jacobsen et al. of about 700,000 Danish births must be the source of the data that Weisskopf refers to. While the results are statistically significant (P=0.02), the change in SSR between dads of age 13-24 and those over 40 is negligible in practical terms.

    Kanazawa's and Weisskopf's summaries are in conflict -- I don't know which is correct.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Pixo

    “older parents over the age of 40 are significantly less likely to have sons, with the proportion of sons at .3557.”

    That seems unlikely.

    “Kanazawa’s and Weisskopf’s summaries are in conflict ”

    Weisskopf had a huge 700k data set based on probably high quality records from Denmark.

    I like Kanazawa’s politics, but he struck me as someone who would publish low quality data for clickbait purposes.

    • Thanks: ic1000
  72. Several posters have identified the points that cops and firefighters make good money, are more masculine on average for their age, more capable of being protectors as individuals, etc. One last point that I have not seen mentioned is that being in these professions puts a man in a tribe with his fellow LEOs and fire fighters, also mostly men.

    From a woman’s perspective this is a good vetting process for weeding out total weirdos (not 100% effective), creates a network of protectors for the wives of these men, and if all else fails, acts as an invitation into the social circle other available men in the tribe to attempt an upgraded model.

    Circling back to tv, if one was to compare the archetypes portrayed on the American version of The Office, these professions are filled mostly with a mix of Dwights, Roys, and Jims, and Andys (based on personality type not race.) Not many Michaels, Tobys, Gabes, Oscars, or Kevins. A select few Ryans, Creeds, Darrells and Stanley’s.

    My limited impression of males in the 21st century office environment is a sexually unappealing mix of Gabe, Ryan, Toby, Oscar and David Wallace.

    • Replies: @Jack P
    @Elliot Page

    Wasn't Dwight a volunteer sheriff or something?

    A lot of lawyers are Jim types.

  73. Who cares what job a girlfriend has? If anything I would be intimidated if my girlfriend was a doctor.

    Why all this focus on poncey high status jobs? My brother (retired now) was self employed working in the cleaning industry all his working life. He never had any difficulty finding slim, attractive women. Married three times to birds two of whom were considerably younger than him. He does have a terrific sense of humour though.

  74. lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors.

    This is a Village People reboot?

    • LOL: BB753
  75. “What I like about you, is, you’re not here” describes the dream husband. USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year, and my guess is that the USN is about the same. The perfect husband is an academy-grad officer – – decent salary, benefits, pension, and societal respect. And, for those 200 days, no mansplaining, arguing, or sex. Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.

    • Replies: @Charon
    @SafeNow

    Agreed with all but that last sentence. Unless you mean "lengthy, marriage-wrecking affairs" in which case you probably have a point.

    Though, to state the obvious, even that qualification is less accurate than in previous times. Because there's far more opportunity on board, no matter what the rules might say.

    , @Pixo
    @SafeNow

    “ Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.”

    Lol, no sex happens while at sea, no siree.

    “ At any given time, about 14 percent of female sailors are pregnant. It's lower (about 11 percent) for women at sea, and they are sent back to a shore job once they are about halfway through their pregnancy. This causes bad feelings on the ship, because some women openly admit to using the pregnancy to get out of finishing the cruise.”

    https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20071022.aspx

    Also, the Navy has a saying “It’s not gay if it’s underway.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/navy-launches-ship-named-gay-rights-leader-harvey-milk

    Replies: @Jack D, @E. Rekshun

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @SafeNow


    USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year...

    Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.
     
    That was true in my day, but you're not serious about today, are you?

    Even in the 1970s, we had "opportunities" in other ports. One of ours was in Port Antonio, Jamaica. The USDA interviewed us upon our return to the US, lest we inadvertently introduce some biological hazard. Perhaps the CDC should have as well.

    Oh, and there were a few weeks at Gtmo. Everyday Cubans were allowed through the gate to work in the bar and at other service jobs. I'm sure many were open to making a few extra verdes.

    There is also a greater risk for her to have an affair. One shipmate returned early from one of our sorties to find his new wife in bed with a friend from their disco days, whom he had assumed was safely gay.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @nebulafox, @SafeNow, @SafeNow

  76. @SafeNow
    “What I like about you, is, you’re not here” describes the dream husband. USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year, and my guess is that the USN is about the same. The perfect husband is an academy-grad officer - - decent salary, benefits, pension, and societal respect. And, for those 200 days, no mansplaining, arguing, or sex. Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.

    Replies: @Charon, @Pixo, @Reg Cæsar

    Agreed with all but that last sentence. Unless you mean “lengthy, marriage-wrecking affairs” in which case you probably have a point.

    Though, to state the obvious, even that qualification is less accurate than in previous times. Because there’s far more opportunity on board, no matter what the rules might say.

  77. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    My closest 4 friends in high school all became actuaries (and I became a math major). We had probably the most intense high school poker game you could imagine.

    Two of these four guys have had nervous breakdowns and are living as something close to vagrants now. The other two are married to good/great-looking women and are living terrific lives. One of them (who was the smartest) has become a senior insurance industry executive.

    Who knows, I guess?

  78. @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    To be fair, cops are evil and racist

  79. TV/movie accountant.

    Tv/movie lawyer:

    Tv firefighter

  80. @Reg Cæsar
    Guns 'N' Hoses

    Guns 'n' hosers. Happy Canada Day!



    https://www.ecowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/701161859-origin.jpg


    As they say in Québec, phoque off!

    Replies: @duncsbaby, @Another Canadian, @Known Fact, @The Alarmist

    Time to crank up Canada’s Metal Queen!

  81. @duncsbaby
    I would disagree that female attraction to men w/these jobs is based on tv viewing. The attraction was there before tv viewing came into play. Most women are attracted to strong, successful, men.

    Btw, I first came across the "guns & hoses" tag line in a Nelson DeMille novel, "The Lion's Game," where the airport emergency squad is made up of firemen and policemen who do both jobs and call themselves, "Guns and Hoses."

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Discordiax, @Legba

    I suspect the female interest and the TV shows are effects of the same causes–those occupations lend themselves to drama and heroics.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Discordiax


    those occupations lend themselves to drama and heroic
     
    You have not met most lawyers, then.
  82. @Anonymous
    Steve writes:
    ""
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    ""

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one's children's reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man's biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters'.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father's input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men's wars. Rich men's sons get "university exemptions" or "bone spur" diagnoses from daddy's doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have "access" to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri, @ic1000, @Mr. Anon, @Spangel226, @Anon, @Anon

    Does this only happen with humans? Or is it something that happens across species, specifically in species with low paternal investment? If it also happens in species with low paternal investment, then I would guess it has nothing to do with boys needing fathers. It could simply be an artifice of there being increased mutations as an organism ages. More mutations on the Y chromosome could lead to more males dying in utero. This is less of a problem for females since there are two X chromosomes so perhaps a bad mutation on one can sometimes be mitigated by the other X chromosome since bad mutations are not likely to occur on exactly the same gene for two separate individuals.

  83. Anonymous[954] • Disclaimer says:

    The police/Batman analogy makes sense when you think about it.

    Negroes are a superstitious and cowardly lot, and are physically allergic to truth and justice.

    The sign of the bat, or a policeman’s shield, will send them scurrying in terror to any fetid dark crevice they can find. They are ever among us. Citizens must stay ever vigilant.

  84. @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    Do women like detectives? Not sure of the fictional desirability of detectives reflects a male fantasy or a female one.

    • Replies: @Jokah Macpherson
    @Spangel226

    I’ve noticed a weird trend of cute women getting into forensic accounting.

    , @anonymous
    @Spangel226

    How could women like detectives? They're almost invariably fat, as anyone would be whose job requires mostly sitting, either at a computer or in a car. But in most detective novels it doesn't come through that the guy is likely to look like William Conrad in "Cannon."

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  85. @R.G. Camara

    women who prefer policemen vs. women who prefer firemen
     
    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential. Every woman daydreams about being rescued; men running into burning buildings to save children/pets/grandma/families is uber masculine and appealing; the athleticism involved makes fireman appear uber-manly and buff; the firehouse camaraderie image has an appealing feel; and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture (those affirmative action firefighter cases are virtually unknown outside of legal nerds and aren't blamed on the firefighters).

    To women, its a bunch of sexy hunky frat boys hanging out in the frat house and then rushing off to save the day, hence the universal appeal of "sexy firefighter" calendars to women.

    Of course, firemen are also seen as less intelligent than other civil servants, and the career/financial/social climbing ladder of a firebro is minimal. A firefighter might get to be fire chief one day, but that's it. Basically, its a great sexy career for a blue collar guy who isn't a great abstract thinker, and the kind of women who would like a top-of-the-line blue collar bro.

    Meanwhile, plenty of folks dislike cops based on being taught that cops are evil and racist (e.g.communists, Jews, blacks) and others come to distrust them due to lifetime interactions (e.g. anyone who paid attention to the 2020 riots or the Jan 6th set up). And so their pool of women into them is smaller, although their perceived higher intelligence, violence, and having a gun probably sways a few "haters" into some dark fantasies.

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @animalogic, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @TWS, @Emil Nikola Richard, @ScarletNumber, @Spangel226, @Reg Cæsar

    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.

    Meri Wilson had more esoteric tastes:

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @Reg Cæsar

    That was a stupid song.

    The one made by a group of black teenagers is much better :

    https://youtu.be/YTdxdr9pNnw

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  86. Pixo says:
    @SafeNow
    “What I like about you, is, you’re not here” describes the dream husband. USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year, and my guess is that the USN is about the same. The perfect husband is an academy-grad officer - - decent salary, benefits, pension, and societal respect. And, for those 200 days, no mansplaining, arguing, or sex. Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.

    Replies: @Charon, @Pixo, @Reg Cæsar

    “ Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.”

    Lol, no sex happens while at sea, no siree.

    “ At any given time, about 14 percent of female sailors are pregnant. It’s lower (about 11 percent) for women at sea, and they are sent back to a shore job once they are about halfway through their pregnancy. This causes bad feelings on the ship, because some women openly admit to using the pregnancy to get out of finishing the cruise.”

    https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20071022.aspx

    Also, the Navy has a saying “It’s not gay if it’s underway.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/navy-launches-ship-named-gay-rights-leader-harvey-milk

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Pixo


    Also, the Navy has a saying “It’s not gay if it’s underway.”
     
    I think that was the old days. Given the # of females on ships nowadays, those who are not already inclined to seek male companionship are not going to change their preference when the anchor is hoisted.

    Keep in mind that most enlistees are very young. 70% of Marines are 24 or younger. This is pretty much peak hormone age so if there are men and women on board (or even if there are just men and men or men and goats) there is going to be sex.

    , @E. Rekshun
    @Pixo

    At any given time, about 14 percent of female sailors are pregnant.

    My employer recently hired a very competent, sharp, black female retired Navy petty officer for a $40K per year administrative assistant position. She enlisted at 18 y/o and retired at 38. She did, however, have three kids with her first sailor husband followed by 3 more kids with her second sailor husband, all while on active duty. Twelve paid weeks off with each pregnancy.

  87. @Twinkie
    @RadicalCenter


    but by no stretch of the imagination do pediatricians and family doctors have low incomes! Please.
     
    I meant low income for a physician.

    median income for US pediatricians two years ago as $213 k, with 75% of them earning more than $185 k.
     
    After 4yrs of college, 4yrs of med school 4yrs of residency plus an average of $200k of school debt, that’s a rather low level of compensation for someone with that cognitive profile and education/training duration. If she lives in a super zip where average 2500 sq ft home is 800k, that quickly becomes hand-to-mouth. She better marry someone who makes more if she wants to put her kids in private schools.

    We shouldn’t underestimate how much good and/or especially industrious RNs earn: namely, as much as or more than the median lawyer (which seems generally fair).
     
    CRNAs make $200k and up in my area. Yes, they make more than many peds and IM docs, granted CRNAs get much more training than other nurses.

    Replies: @Jack D

    If she lives in a super zip

    Generally speaking, salaries in super zip areas are going to be higher than the median. Maybe not high enough to fully make up for the difference in housing costs, but still above the median.

    The other thing about super zips is that they are self-selecting. If you don’t make enough to afford a house in a super zip then you won’t buy a house in a super zip. Maybe you’ll work in the super zip and commute from some town where the prices are somewhat lower.

    The other thing is that degrees are not purely about making money. Degrees also earn you respect. People respect doctors more than they respect nurses. You can’t take respect to the bank but it’s still worth something.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    Generally speaking, salaries in super zip areas are going to be higher than the median.
     
    WRONG. Super zips attract doctors easily and can afford to pay less competitively.

    Doctoring is very different from lawyering or IT work or what have you. In the latter professions, big cities and suburbs, esp. affluent, tony ones, pay the best. Doctoring is often the opposite - the places that pay big bucks are generally "underserved" areas that have trouble attracting physicians.

    Replies: @Jack D

  88. @anonymous
    Firefighters make way more than all but a slim minority of lawyers.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia, @Spangel226, @kicktheroos

    My guess is that firefighters and cops attract women for reasons that have little to do with their income. Doctors and lawyers probably attract women because of their income and status, but the reason they attract more women than others who earn similarly is that women have little knowledge about others who earn similarly. How do they know a small business owner makes as much as a surgeon without already knowing that business owner fairly well?

    If women knew that some musician earned as much as a doctor, I would guess that the musician would get many times the amount of messages as the doctor.

  89. @Pixo
    @SafeNow

    “ Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.”

    Lol, no sex happens while at sea, no siree.

    “ At any given time, about 14 percent of female sailors are pregnant. It's lower (about 11 percent) for women at sea, and they are sent back to a shore job once they are about halfway through their pregnancy. This causes bad feelings on the ship, because some women openly admit to using the pregnancy to get out of finishing the cruise.”

    https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20071022.aspx

    Also, the Navy has a saying “It’s not gay if it’s underway.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/navy-launches-ship-named-gay-rights-leader-harvey-milk

    Replies: @Jack D, @E. Rekshun

    Also, the Navy has a saying “It’s not gay if it’s underway.”

    I think that was the old days. Given the # of females on ships nowadays, those who are not already inclined to seek male companionship are not going to change their preference when the anchor is hoisted.

    Keep in mind that most enlistees are very young. 70% of Marines are 24 or younger. This is pretty much peak hormone age so if there are men and women on board (or even if there are just men and men or men and goats) there is going to be sex.

    • Agree: Simon in London
  90. @SafeNow
    “What I like about you, is, you’re not here” describes the dream husband. USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year, and my guess is that the USN is about the same. The perfect husband is an academy-grad officer - - decent salary, benefits, pension, and societal respect. And, for those 200 days, no mansplaining, arguing, or sex. Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.

    Replies: @Charon, @Pixo, @Reg Cæsar

    USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year…

    Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.

    That was true in my day, but you’re not serious about today, are you?

    Even in the 1970s, we had “opportunities” in other ports. One of ours was in Port Antonio, Jamaica. The USDA interviewed us upon our return to the US, lest we inadvertently introduce some biological hazard. Perhaps the CDC should have as well.

    Oh, and there were a few weeks at Gtmo. Everyday Cubans were allowed through the gate to work in the bar and at other service jobs. I’m sure many were open to making a few extra verdes.

    There is also a greater risk for her to have an affair. One shipmate returned early from one of our sorties to find his new wife in bed with a friend from their disco days, whom he had assumed was safely gay.

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
    • Thanks: SafeNow
    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Reg Cæsar

    Plus today literally women are on ships. You don't even need to go into port to get any, just nail the one down the hall.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @nebulafox
    @Reg Cæsar

    The gap between officer and enlisted ranks is an exaggerated version of what has happened in America as a whole. It really is night and day. Deployments can have their strain (or not) in the former, but marriages are generally stable enough to handle it, and more often than not, the guys have what it takes to make it work. The latter does reflect how stable marriages and family units have become increasingly the realm of the educated and affluent in the US.

    Doesn't help that there are poor chicks in places like the Deep South that do see being a military spouse as their ticket out of a life in the service industry. Not all of them, but they are out there, and these guys are young, dumb, and... well, you get the idea. Guys who are getting attention from women and simultaneously have a life of their own for the first time are especially at risk.

    Replies: @E. Rekshun

    , @SafeNow
    @Reg Cæsar

    I was referring to a marriage-destroying affair, not a quick adventure. I should have been more specific. Btw, apparently the same time and the same place. Can’t give identifying info, and rightly so, but it’s a heckuva possibility to think about.

    , @SafeNow
    @Reg Cæsar

    I was referring to a marriage-destroying affair, not a quick adventure. I should have been more specific. Btw, same time and same place.

  91. @Almost Missouri
    @Steve Sailer

    I've only known one actuary personally. He was a smart, introverted, dull, and slightly smug guy. He had a long-term live-in girlfriend (woman-friend, really, they were in their 40s when I knew them), who I didn't think was all that but other men seemed to find her interesting. One day, she up and left him for a cattle rancher. No one ever inquired about his wellbeing. I have no idea what became of him after that. With luck, found a better woman, ... but he never struck me as lucky. Maybe he went the mail order route. Or maybe a pioneer incel.

    FWIW.

    Replies: @Another Canadian, @R.G. Camara, @Bill Jones

    Once upon a time, such men would have been in high demand. But since women these days don’t want to be wives and mothers and happy, he probably was alone, besides the occasional hooker/ONS. Sad!

  92. @Reg Cæsar
    @SafeNow


    USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year...

    Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.
     
    That was true in my day, but you're not serious about today, are you?

    Even in the 1970s, we had "opportunities" in other ports. One of ours was in Port Antonio, Jamaica. The USDA interviewed us upon our return to the US, lest we inadvertently introduce some biological hazard. Perhaps the CDC should have as well.

    Oh, and there were a few weeks at Gtmo. Everyday Cubans were allowed through the gate to work in the bar and at other service jobs. I'm sure many were open to making a few extra verdes.

    There is also a greater risk for her to have an affair. One shipmate returned early from one of our sorties to find his new wife in bed with a friend from their disco days, whom he had assumed was safely gay.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @nebulafox, @SafeNow, @SafeNow

    Plus today literally women are on ships. You don’t even need to go into port to get any, just nail the one down the hall.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @R.G. Camara


    ...just nail the one down the hall.
     
    Passageway, matey.

    And you'd treenail her.
  93. @Discordiax
    @duncsbaby

    I suspect the female interest and the TV shows are effects of the same causes--those occupations lend themselves to drama and heroics.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    those occupations lend themselves to drama and heroic

    You have not met most lawyers, then.

  94. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    Maybe women figure they could ask better questions of some guy with a TV show job than of, say, an actuary.

    It is not about ‘asking better questions’. Women are not curious about a man’s day to day anyway.

    It is because television has made all male protagonists among those professions listed, so in the female mental model, they see themselves as with men in those professions.

    Once in a blue moon, people like Ross Gellar and Chandler Bing are in professions women have zero curiosity about. But otherwise, television has told women what to think in this matter, just like in all other matters.

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand.

    LOL. Steve’s age is showing. A man’s potential as a dependable upper middle class provider hasn’t been useful since the turn of the century. An actuary’s income has virtually zero chance of getting him women. Hell, even a CFO can’t do well since women haven’t seen a lot of CFOs featured on TV as male romantic leads.

    Now women go for raw gina tingles, so the most sought after men are criminals, lowlifes, sociopaths and bartenders (the only law-abiding profession in this group).

  95. @Anonymous
    Steve writes:
    ""
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    ""

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one's children's reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man's biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters'.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father's input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men's wars. Rich men's sons get "university exemptions" or "bone spur" diagnoses from daddy's doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have "access" to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri, @ic1000, @Mr. Anon, @Spangel226, @Anon, @Anon

    Paternal age has nothing to do with the gender of offspring. Gender is determined in the womb; sperm is genderless.

  96. @Reg Cæsar
    @R.G. Camara


    Basically, every woman wants a hot fling with a buff fireman, while probably only three-quarters want a hot fling with a policeman.
     
    Meri Wilson had more esoteric tastes:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MahswYBewb0

    Replies: @Thomm

    That was a stupid song.

    The one made by a group of black teenagers is much better :

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Thomm


    The one made by a group of black teenagers...

     

    Ray Parker, Jr was 30 at the time, not a teenager.

    Replies: @Thomm

  97. @Reg Cæsar
    @SafeNow


    USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year...

    Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.
     
    That was true in my day, but you're not serious about today, are you?

    Even in the 1970s, we had "opportunities" in other ports. One of ours was in Port Antonio, Jamaica. The USDA interviewed us upon our return to the US, lest we inadvertently introduce some biological hazard. Perhaps the CDC should have as well.

    Oh, and there were a few weeks at Gtmo. Everyday Cubans were allowed through the gate to work in the bar and at other service jobs. I'm sure many were open to making a few extra verdes.

    There is also a greater risk for her to have an affair. One shipmate returned early from one of our sorties to find his new wife in bed with a friend from their disco days, whom he had assumed was safely gay.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @nebulafox, @SafeNow, @SafeNow

    The gap between officer and enlisted ranks is an exaggerated version of what has happened in America as a whole. It really is night and day. Deployments can have their strain (or not) in the former, but marriages are generally stable enough to handle it, and more often than not, the guys have what it takes to make it work. The latter does reflect how stable marriages and family units have become increasingly the realm of the educated and affluent in the US.

    Doesn’t help that there are poor chicks in places like the Deep South that do see being a military spouse as their ticket out of a life in the service industry. Not all of them, but they are out there, and these guys are young, dumb, and… well, you get the idea. Guys who are getting attention from women and simultaneously have a life of their own for the first time are especially at risk.

    • Replies: @E. Rekshun
    @nebulafox

    ...there are poor chicks in places like the Deep South that do see being a military spouse as their ticket out of a life in the service industry. Not all of them, but they are out there, and these guys are young, dumb, and… well, you get the idea. Guys who are getting attention from women and simultaneously have a life of their own for the first time are especially at risk.

    Not enlisted, but sort of like Officer Candidate Sid Worley

    https://youtu.be/MJTDSxUwWjY?t=12

  98. @Reg Cæsar
    Guns 'N' Hoses

    Guns 'n' hosers. Happy Canada Day!



    https://www.ecowatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/701161859-origin.jpg


    As they say in Québec, phoque off!

    Replies: @duncsbaby, @Another Canadian, @Known Fact, @The Alarmist

    Canadian club, the brand of discerning baby seals.

    • LOL: stari_momak
  99. @Twinkie
    @R.G. Camara


    All women prefer firemen to policemen, at least in terms of fantasy sex potential.
     
    You underestimate how much the uniform gives the cop an edge over a fireman. Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull.

    Replies: @SFG, @LP5, @SunBakedSuburb

    “Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull.”

    It seems most Americans draw their perceptions of civilian uniformed services personnel from the TeeVee.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @SunBakedSuburb


    It seems most Americans draw their perceptions of civilian uniformed services personnel from the TeeVee.
     
    I hope you are not referring to me - I trained with the local LEOs for several years when I was posted to the PacNW.

    Note that I didn't say cops were some shiny, witty people - I wrote that they tend to be more so than firemen. They spend far more time interacting with people on the street (esp. as patrol officers) than firemen do.
  100. “Guns & Hoses”?

    Given WWT … I don’t even want to think about it.

  101. By the way…

    There are still pockets of sanity- even in Palo Alto…

  102. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    My parent married an LAFD fireman. He was 6-6 and had red hair. He snow skied, water skied, played handball, did construction work on his days off, and was a good dancer.

    The marriage lasted two years but they’d been seeing each other *on and off* for 20 yrs. His worst trait, she said, was his terrible prejudice against negroes. Esp after the Watts riots and all. What to do?

    After the divorce he retired with that insane pension and married someone else.

    • LOL: Pixo
  103. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    Like questions about Double Indemnity, for instance?

    • LOL: Right_On
  104. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    “cops and firemen in good shape”

    no on 1, yes on 2.

  105. @Thomm
    @Reg Cæsar

    That was a stupid song.

    The one made by a group of black teenagers is much better :

    https://youtu.be/YTdxdr9pNnw

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The one made by a group of black teenagers…

    Ray Parker, Jr was 30 at the time, not a teenager.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    @Reg Cæsar


    Ray Parker, Jr was 30 at the time, not a teenager.
     
    er.... you are talking about the producer and songwriter. The actual singers are teenagers. Duh!!

    I said 'made', I perhaps should have said 'sung'. Nonetheless, you sure zeroed in on the most important detail worth fixating on.

  106. Wouldn’t Guns and Hoes be more appropriate?

  107. @Twinkie
    @Whereismyhandle


    Plastics guys probably crush it.
     
    They are a bit on the shifty side.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.
     
    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.

    radiologists bc they’re chill, introverted nerds.
     
    Weirdos who don’t like patients and stay in the basements of hospitals. ;)

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Reg Cæsar

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.

    I’ve heard the opposite– that they are held in low regard. Someone else has already done the diagnosis, and they are just connecting the dots.

    Plastics guys probably crush it.

    They are a bit on the shifty side.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Reg Cæsar


    I’ve heard the opposite– that they are held in low regard. Someone else has already done the diagnosis, and they are just connecting the dots.
     
    I have never heard that. Surgeons have the stereotype of being more macho than physicians, and the most coveted specialties (re: most lucrative and most difficult) are the surgical ones. Plastic surgery is the most difficult of medical school residencies to land and is almost 100% alpha males trying to open a clinic in Beverly Hills, Washington D.C., NYC, Miami, or some other major metropolis where rich bored housewifes throw money at them to make themselves beautiful.

    The bad TV show Scrubs was about a beta-male physician (the white J.D.) and his black uber-macho surgeon best friend (Turk). A running joke was how the surgeons were all so masculine and how the physicians (besides Dr. Cox, J.D.'s superior) were all so wussy in comparison that the other doctors, the nurses, and even the janitor all bossed the physicians (especially J.D.) around.

  108. @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie



    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

     

    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.
     
    I've heard the opposite-- that they are held in low regard. Someone else has already done the diagnosis, and they are just connecting the dots.


    Plastics guys probably crush it.

     

    They are a bit on the shifty side.
     

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    I’ve heard the opposite– that they are held in low regard. Someone else has already done the diagnosis, and they are just connecting the dots.

    I have never heard that. Surgeons have the stereotype of being more macho than physicians, and the most coveted specialties (re: most lucrative and most difficult) are the surgical ones. Plastic surgery is the most difficult of medical school residencies to land and is almost 100% alpha males trying to open a clinic in Beverly Hills, Washington D.C., NYC, Miami, or some other major metropolis where rich bored housewifes throw money at them to make themselves beautiful.

    The bad TV show Scrubs was about a beta-male physician (the white J.D.) and his black uber-macho surgeon best friend (Turk). A running joke was how the surgeons were all so masculine and how the physicians (besides Dr. Cox, J.D.’s superior) were all so wussy in comparison that the other doctors, the nurses, and even the janitor all bossed the physicians (especially J.D.) around.

  109. I’ve been seeing “Guns ‘n Hoses” for years.  It’s commonly used for annual police vs. firefighters charity events.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Mr. Rational


    I’ve been seeing “Guns ‘n Hoses” for years.
     
    Yes. I first saw it more than 25 years ago on the old Art Dore Toughman amateur boxing contest. Each match featured a policeman versus a firefighter.

    In case you're curious, the firefighters utterly trounced the cops. It wasn't even close. I found it very illuminating, which is why I recall it all these years later.
  110. @Almost Missouri
    @Steve Sailer

    I've only known one actuary personally. He was a smart, introverted, dull, and slightly smug guy. He had a long-term live-in girlfriend (woman-friend, really, they were in their 40s when I knew them), who I didn't think was all that but other men seemed to find her interesting. One day, she up and left him for a cattle rancher. No one ever inquired about his wellbeing. I have no idea what became of him after that. With luck, found a better woman, ... but he never struck me as lucky. Maybe he went the mail order route. Or maybe a pioneer incel.

    FWIW.

    Replies: @Another Canadian, @R.G. Camara, @Bill Jones

    but he never struck me as lucky

    Perhaps he wasn’t, but he’d know the odds.

    • LOL: Almost Missouri
  111. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    I remember seeing a rabbinical discourse on the Mosaic law of self-defense entitled "Guns and Moses"

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    If you’re seriously interested in self-defense Guns n Dozers covers most bases.

  112. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    My girl is an interpreter, definitely a very attractive profession for a female IMO.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Simon in London

    She’s got a talented tongue.

    , @Bill Jones
    @Simon in London


    My girl is an interpreter, definitely a very attractive profession for a female IMO.
     
    My Wife too. Every sentence I utter she translates and tells me what I really meant to say.
  113. @Reg Cæsar
    @Thomm


    The one made by a group of black teenagers...

     

    Ray Parker, Jr was 30 at the time, not a teenager.

    Replies: @Thomm

    Ray Parker, Jr was 30 at the time, not a teenager.

    er…. you are talking about the producer and songwriter. The actual singers are teenagers. Duh!!

    I said ‘made’, I perhaps should have said ‘sung’. Nonetheless, you sure zeroed in on the most important detail worth fixating on.

  114. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Anonymous

    I've worked with a few actuaries. Great guys but nerdish enough that non-nerds stand out.

    But they will not be the first to make a move when out on the town, indeed they won't be out on the town at all.

    I had a colleague who was a ladies man (not the one who propositioned drunken strangers). He would tell girls at clubs he was a bricklayer or a plumber - anything but IT - he said it was a real conversation-killer. I imagine "actuary" would be even more so.


    "What do you do?"

    "I'm an actuary"

    "What's that?"

    *** twenty minutes of explanation, hopefully not involving Ito's Lemma ***

    "I must just dash to the loo"
     

    On the other hand, "I work in finance. It's really boring but the money's good" and you're half way there. All a matter of presentation.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson

    Haha I am kind of in IT and I sometimes tell women I am a garbage collector to entertain myself. The resulting conversations can be interesting.

  115. @Spangel226
    @R.G. Camara

    Do women like detectives? Not sure of the fictional desirability of detectives reflects a male fantasy or a female one.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson, @anonymous

    I’ve noticed a weird trend of cute women getting into forensic accounting.

  116. @Another Canadian
    @Reg Cæsar

    "No shenanigans this weekend." - Doug Ford

    https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2022/06/30/doug-ford-warns-ottawa-protesters-no-shenanigans-this-weekend.html

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Ontario has new fines for encumbering (blocking?) a road, loitering, etc (anti-gathering type ordinances), all for C\$1000.

  117. @Pixo
    @SafeNow

    “ Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.”

    Lol, no sex happens while at sea, no siree.

    “ At any given time, about 14 percent of female sailors are pregnant. It's lower (about 11 percent) for women at sea, and they are sent back to a shore job once they are about halfway through their pregnancy. This causes bad feelings on the ship, because some women openly admit to using the pregnancy to get out of finishing the cruise.”

    https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20071022.aspx

    Also, the Navy has a saying “It’s not gay if it’s underway.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/navy-launches-ship-named-gay-rights-leader-harvey-milk

    Replies: @Jack D, @E. Rekshun

    At any given time, about 14 percent of female sailors are pregnant.

    My employer recently hired a very competent, sharp, black female retired Navy petty officer for a \$40K per year administrative assistant position. She enlisted at 18 y/o and retired at 38. She did, however, have three kids with her first sailor husband followed by 3 more kids with her second sailor husband, all while on active duty. Twelve paid weeks off with each pregnancy.

  118. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    I think Steve has mentioned that even Mick Jagger can make being Mick Jagger sound boring and practical in everyday conversation. Touring logistics and the like.

  119. @nebulafox
    @Reg Cæsar

    The gap between officer and enlisted ranks is an exaggerated version of what has happened in America as a whole. It really is night and day. Deployments can have their strain (or not) in the former, but marriages are generally stable enough to handle it, and more often than not, the guys have what it takes to make it work. The latter does reflect how stable marriages and family units have become increasingly the realm of the educated and affluent in the US.

    Doesn't help that there are poor chicks in places like the Deep South that do see being a military spouse as their ticket out of a life in the service industry. Not all of them, but they are out there, and these guys are young, dumb, and... well, you get the idea. Guys who are getting attention from women and simultaneously have a life of their own for the first time are especially at risk.

    Replies: @E. Rekshun

    …there are poor chicks in places like the Deep South that do see being a military spouse as their ticket out of a life in the service industry. Not all of them, but they are out there, and these guys are young, dumb, and… well, you get the idea. Guys who are getting attention from women and simultaneously have a life of their own for the first time are especially at risk.

    Not enlisted, but sort of like Officer Candidate Sid Worley

  120. @Twinkie
    @Whereismyhandle


    Plastics guys probably crush it.
     
    They are a bit on the shifty side.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.
     
    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.

    radiologists bc they’re chill, introverted nerds.
     
    Weirdos who don’t like patients and stay in the basements of hospitals. ;)

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Reg Cæsar

    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.

    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.

    As for being “smart” sure most are smart enough. Most other physicians regard most (not all) surgeons as the mechanics of the medical world. Knowledgeable — you hope – about where to cut and stitch, but not necessarily brilliant as to medicine as a whole.

    Other specialists are more highly regarded. Surgeons already know the problem; many other physicians have to first figure that out.

    Many surgeons have poor patient skills, since their work is mainly referral. So arrogant yes but not always prized by their peers.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Muggles


    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.
     
    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again - I wrote "Surgery hours are long and brutal," not that their overall hours are.

    Most other physicians regard most (not all) surgeons as the mechanics of the medical world.
     
    "Surgeons" mean nothing. What's relevant is what type of a surgery a surgeon specializes. Neurosurgeons are some of the smartest of all doctors, barring M.D.-Ph.D.'s (who are really scientists).

    Listen to some of you opining like you know what you are talking about. I am on the board of a large, multi-state medical system.

    Replies: @jonnyboy, @Muggles

  121. @Simon in London
    @Pixo

    My girl is an interpreter, definitely a very attractive profession for a female IMO.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Bill Jones

    She’s got a talented tongue.

  122. @scrivener3
    @Andrew M

    Adversary is not limited to trial lawyers.

    Each lawyer has to advocate for his client's interests, against other skilled and motivated lawyers, against bureaucrats, against tax authorities, sometimes against your own staff or supervising partner.

    That is more than the normal corporate infighting and career climbing. After retiring I didn't realize how much I hated the constant battle until I helped my sister in law get out of an oppressive real estate listing contract.

    Replies: @Curle

    “Each lawyer has to advocate for his client’s interests, against other skilled and motivated lawyers,”

    Against the client’s stupidity.

  123. @Anonymous
    I think actuaries are the only professionals that have to demonstrate active competence and problem solving ability in higher math like calculus, both to qualify as a professional and enter the field, and while on the job.

    Undergrad engineering degrees require going through the calculus sequence, but you can coast by and graduate and then got a job and have a career as an engineer without really knowing calculus or using it on the job. Of course it will depend on the specific job or career, and it won't mean you'll be a good engineer. On the other hand, it won't necessarily mean that you'll be a bad one either.

    The only other field I can think of like actuaries in requiring higher math would be "quants" i.e. quantitative analysts or financial engineers, although that is much more of a niche field and not really an established professional.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @YetAnotherAnon, @TWS, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    The only other field I can think of like actuaries in requiring higher math would be “quants” i.e. quantitative analysts or financial engineers, although that is much more of a niche field and not really an established professional.

    I mentioned this in another post on the iSteve blog. Your typical Wall St. quant guy today has a PhD in applied math, computer science, or physics. Very smart, and almost exclusively guys. They make huge scratch if they are good.

    The answer to the question “What is the most important development in finance in the last 50 years?’

    is not

    “The repeal of Glass Steagall” or

    “the development of ETFs” or

    the “triumph of the Discount Broker.”

    Nope, it’s the day Congress voted NOT to fund the Large Hadron Collider in Texas — and it went to Cern.

    It was supposed to the great fulltime employment opportunity for an entire generation of American physicists, so they shrugged their shoulders and said “oh well” and decamped to Wall St. and we got program trading and a host of other intra day and intra minute price movement strategies that account for a gigantic share of daily trading volume.

  124. Creepy demented scandal-plagued illegitimate miserable failure Joseph Robinette Biden has arrived at a very iStevey plan to distract people from his catastrophic administration’s decreasing popularity: The Joe Biden Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence will be awarded, perhaps on prime time network television, to St Elsewhere, Glory, Training Day and The Preacher’s Wife actor Denzel Washington. Why say, “look, a squirrel,” when you can say, “Look, it’s Den Zayel!”
    https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2022/07/01/joe-biden-to-award-denzel-washington-with-medal-of-freedom/

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @J.Ross

    I’m sure Steve Jobs and John McCain are very happy to receive such a prestigious award.

  125. Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.

    That’s right. Most elective surgery is also assembly line — it’s like Jiffy Lube for surgery. I bet Steve’s ophthalmologist has surgery days where he/she starts at 7 ends at 5 and does two to three cataract procedures an hour.

    And that’s what you want. The more a surgeon does, the better they are at it.

    I had some hand surgery a while back, and my doc was a very personable guy — loved to play golf and I had my surgery under a local and we chatted about golf the entire time.

    On a follow up visit I asked him, “Aren’t you afraid that robots will take your job?” He said no, somebody who understands what’s happening has to turn them on and watch.

    He added that anyway, by the time the robots are good enough, he’ll have enough dough to play golf a lot more.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    The date of my first cataract surgery was scheduled 10 weeks ahead but the hour wasn't scheduled until the day before, presumably to maximize the productivity of the expensive team (surgeon, anesthesiologist, expert nurses) so they won't have any down time that day once they get rolling. The process was impressively well-organized.

  126. anon[102] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Young ladies, actuary is just about the best career for a husband there is. They make lots of money and their skills are rare and always in demand. (Do they have to work long hours or can they knock off at a reasonable time?) You can look up online what they do, and insurance is an interesting topic that a clever girl can think up lots of questions about.

    Replies: @HammerJack, @AceDeuce, @ic1000, @Almost Missouri, @Anon, @kaganovitch, @Recently Based, @Thomm, @Ancient Briton, @anon

    Many of the major actuary firms and executives are based in Iowa, Nebraska, and similar locales in the middle of nowhere in flyover country. Aside from consulting actuaries who business travel a lot, or actuaries who work with investment bankers and in M&A, actuaries generally have better hours and work life balance than corporate managers and finance professionals trying to claw their way up the corporate hierarchy.

    Becoming an actuary is difficult, as Milton Friedman describes here:

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anon

    Alexander Payne's movie with Jack Nicholson as a retired actuary is set in Payne's hometown of Omaha.

  127. There was a time when the FBI would hire only lawyers and accountants. Remember the nerdy accountant packing heat in the Untouchables?

  128. @animalogic
    @J.Ross

    "So really all he’s demonstrating is that money by itself isn’t good enough. Did someone say it was?"
    I'm not so sure.
    At a certain level of wealth one becomes a "business man". A "business man" is attractive, not least for their wealth.
    That Ferrari, the holiday home on the beach & the private jet are a massive turn-on for "some" women.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    A “business man” is attractive, not least for their wealth.

    No. No, and less so now that chicks have their own bankrolls. Elliott Rodger had plenty of money.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @J.Ross

    Elliot Rodger was a college kid with a nice car that his father bought him. Not exactly the same thing as having a lot of money. I don’t know if he got a hefty allowance but I doubt it.

    Of course, “lots of money” means different things to different people in different places. The types of girls that Rodger lusted after weren’t going to swoon over a scrawny closeted wimp just because he drove a BMW.

    Now, if he’d had his own business and his own house and his own life, then maybe some women might have been interested.

    I knew a woman who confided to me that she was insanely turned on by listening to her husband scream at his employees. The nastier he got, the better. Fortunately for her, he was a real asshole.

    Even in high school (to say nothing of college) I knew “rich kids” - rich by upper-middle-class standards - whose parents gave them enough spending money that they could easily afford to buy, say, an ample supply of cocaine for their Saturday-night parties. Twenty dollars made my wallet feel heavy but these kids would blow through hundreds or even thousands of dollars in a single weekend without a second thought.

    (And I knew poor kids who thought *I* was a spoiled brat.)

    I knew a girl who, on the spur of the moment, cashed several thousand dollars out of her account and flew to Costa Rica for spring break. Just like that - she didn’t even tell her parents until after she landed. She was 18 and the money was in her name and what were they going to do? (She didn’t give me the time of day, obviously, but I overheard her bragging about it.) She went camping with a couple of “hot” guys and woke up to find them making out.

    She ended up marrying a guy who made her family seem poor.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Hermes
    @J.Ross

    Chicks having their own bankrolls has certainly made the standard UMC guy with a house with granite countertops and stainless steel appliances and a BMW in the driveway not particularly attractive for his wealth, but a Ferrari, vacation house, and private jet are on another level. Gold diggers do still exist.

  129. @Whereismyhandle
    @Twinkie

    Medical specialties have very different personalities and reputations.

    Orthopedic surgeons are the jock alpha males of medicine. Plastics guys probably crush it.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    My sister, a real type-a female doctor, really likes working with radiologists bc they're chill, introverted nerds.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Right_On

    neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    Seen this classic sketch (two minutes long) about a brain surgeon?

    • LOL: Twinkie, Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Right_On

    Thanks for that. Not only do I know several neurosurgeons, but I also have a cousin who has a Ph.D. in engineering and worked on surface-to-surface missiles. He teaches now and plays golf.

  130. @Mr. Rational
    I've been seeing "Guns 'n Hoses" for years.  It's commonly used for annual police vs. firefighters charity events.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    I’ve been seeing “Guns ‘n Hoses” for years.

    Yes. I first saw it more than 25 years ago on the old Art Dore Toughman amateur boxing contest. Each match featured a policeman versus a firefighter.

    In case you’re curious, the firefighters utterly trounced the cops. It wasn’t even close. I found it very illuminating, which is why I recall it all these years later.

  131. @anon
    @Steve Sailer

    Many of the major actuary firms and executives are based in Iowa, Nebraska, and similar locales in the middle of nowhere in flyover country. Aside from consulting actuaries who business travel a lot, or actuaries who work with investment bankers and in M&A, actuaries generally have better hours and work life balance than corporate managers and finance professionals trying to claw their way up the corporate hierarchy.

    Becoming an actuary is difficult, as Milton Friedman describes here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61YLb2V4M6Y

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Alexander Payne’s movie with Jack Nicholson as a retired actuary is set in Payne’s hometown of Omaha.

  132. >tell girl you’re a firefighter
    >actually a forestry technician

  133. @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.
     
    That's right. Most elective surgery is also assembly line -- it's like Jiffy Lube for surgery. I bet Steve's ophthalmologist has surgery days where he/she starts at 7 ends at 5 and does two to three cataract procedures an hour.

    And that's what you want. The more a surgeon does, the better they are at it.

    I had some hand surgery a while back, and my doc was a very personable guy -- loved to play golf and I had my surgery under a local and we chatted about golf the entire time.

    On a follow up visit I asked him, "Aren't you afraid that robots will take your job?" He said no, somebody who understands what's happening has to turn them on and watch.

    He added that anyway, by the time the robots are good enough, he'll have enough dough to play golf a lot more.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The date of my first cataract surgery was scheduled 10 weeks ahead but the hour wasn’t scheduled until the day before, presumably to maximize the productivity of the expensive team (surgeon, anesthesiologist, expert nurses) so they won’t have any down time that day once they get rolling. The process was impressively well-organized.

  134. > I’m guessing that the common denominator in all this is that there are lots of TV shows and movies about lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors.

    Cause or effect? I think those shows are made because they are more interesting and respectable than other careers. I’ve accepted that my career — software engineering — is intrinsically boring and unimpressive to everyone other than other software engineers, and especially so to women, especially if you ignore the tech boom boost it got recently.

    • Replies: @animalogic
    @megabar

    "I’m guessing that the common denominator in all this is that there are lots of TV shows and movies about lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors."
    The common denominator I can see is all these jobs have the possibility of major drama (& romance) . Life & death situations, life shattering events, moral outrage (justice/injustice) etc.

    , @Anonymous
    @megabar


    I’ve accepted that my career — software engineering — is intrinsically boring and unimpressive to everyone other than other software engineers, and especially so to women,
     
    There are definitely some careers that make a man attractive. Most careers are neutral. And then there are some that create negative status - even if the income is good. Try telling a woman you are a dentist.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  135. Fwiw, these are the top professions of men in romance novels.

    https://www.adweek.com/galleycat/10-most-popular-professions-for-romance-novel-heroes/29451

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Spangel226

    Freedom's Fortune (IIRC) featured an Alaskan fisherman who the heroine was unaware was a Seattle CEO on summer vacation. Okay, Gates takes a week off to meditate or whatever, but come on... what genuine CEO takes a whole summer off? Just to exercise his testosterone!

    The worst aspect of this was that the author's own brother is an Alaskan fisherman, a real one. In addition to insulting real-world executives, she mocked her own kin and his mates.

  136. Even Homer nods…an obvious question is *why* there are a bunch of shows about Doctors, Lawyers, etc. Another is why the kinda guys that are doctors and lawyers and the like go into those fields.

    Latent variables, my man.

  137. @J.Ross
    @animalogic

    A “business man” is attractive, not least for their wealth.

    No. No, and less so now that chicks have their own bankrolls. Elliott Rodger had plenty of money.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Hermes

    Elliot Rodger was a college kid with a nice car that his father bought him. Not exactly the same thing as having a lot of money. I don’t know if he got a hefty allowance but I doubt it.

    Of course, “lots of money” means different things to different people in different places. The types of girls that Rodger lusted after weren’t going to swoon over a scrawny closeted wimp just because he drove a BMW.

    Now, if he’d had his own business and his own house and his own life, then maybe some women might have been interested.

    I knew a woman who confided to me that she was insanely turned on by listening to her husband scream at his employees. The nastier he got, the better. Fortunately for her, he was a real asshole.

    Even in high school (to say nothing of college) I knew “rich kids” – rich by upper-middle-class standards – whose parents gave them enough spending money that they could easily afford to buy, say, an ample supply of cocaine for their Saturday-night parties. Twenty dollars made my wallet feel heavy but these kids would blow through hundreds or even thousands of dollars in a single weekend without a second thought.

    (And I knew poor kids who thought *I* was a spoiled brat.)

    I knew a girl who, on the spur of the moment, cashed several thousand dollars out of her account and flew to Costa Rica for spring break. Just like that – she didn’t even tell her parents until after she landed. She was 18 and the money was in her name and what were they going to do? (She didn’t give me the time of day, obviously, but I overheard her bragging about it.) She went camping with a couple of “hot” guys and woke up to find them making out.

    She ended up marrying a guy who made her family seem poor.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Stan Adams

    That one went over your head and also you're wrong anyway; tldr personality is king.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  138. @Elliot Page
    Several posters have identified the points that cops and firefighters make good money, are more masculine on average for their age, more capable of being protectors as individuals, etc. One last point that I have not seen mentioned is that being in these professions puts a man in a tribe with his fellow LEOs and fire fighters, also mostly men.

    From a woman's perspective this is a good vetting process for weeding out total weirdos (not 100% effective), creates a network of protectors for the wives of these men, and if all else fails, acts as an invitation into the social circle other available men in the tribe to attempt an upgraded model.

    Circling back to tv, if one was to compare the archetypes portrayed on the American version of The Office, these professions are filled mostly with a mix of Dwights, Roys, and Jims, and Andys (based on personality type not race.) Not many Michaels, Tobys, Gabes, Oscars, or Kevins. A select few Ryans, Creeds, Darrells and Stanley's.


    My limited impression of males in the 21st century office environment is a sexually unappealing mix of Gabe, Ryan, Toby, Oscar and David Wallace.

    Replies: @Jack P

    Wasn’t Dwight a volunteer sheriff or something?

    A lot of lawyers are Jim types.

  139. @J.Ross
    Creepy demented scandal-plagued illegitimate miserable failure Joseph Robinette Biden has arrived at a very iStevey plan to distract people from his catastrophic administration's decreasing popularity: The Joe Biden Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence will be awarded, perhaps on prime time network television, to St Elsewhere, Glory, Training Day and The Preacher's Wife actor Denzel Washington. Why say, "look, a squirrel," when you can say, "Look, it's Den Zayel!"
    https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2022/07/01/joe-biden-to-award-denzel-washington-with-medal-of-freedom/

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    I’m sure Steve Jobs and John McCain are very happy to receive such a prestigious award.

  140. @Stan Adams
    @J.Ross

    Elliot Rodger was a college kid with a nice car that his father bought him. Not exactly the same thing as having a lot of money. I don’t know if he got a hefty allowance but I doubt it.

    Of course, “lots of money” means different things to different people in different places. The types of girls that Rodger lusted after weren’t going to swoon over a scrawny closeted wimp just because he drove a BMW.

    Now, if he’d had his own business and his own house and his own life, then maybe some women might have been interested.

    I knew a woman who confided to me that she was insanely turned on by listening to her husband scream at his employees. The nastier he got, the better. Fortunately for her, he was a real asshole.

    Even in high school (to say nothing of college) I knew “rich kids” - rich by upper-middle-class standards - whose parents gave them enough spending money that they could easily afford to buy, say, an ample supply of cocaine for their Saturday-night parties. Twenty dollars made my wallet feel heavy but these kids would blow through hundreds or even thousands of dollars in a single weekend without a second thought.

    (And I knew poor kids who thought *I* was a spoiled brat.)

    I knew a girl who, on the spur of the moment, cashed several thousand dollars out of her account and flew to Costa Rica for spring break. Just like that - she didn’t even tell her parents until after she landed. She was 18 and the money was in her name and what were they going to do? (She didn’t give me the time of day, obviously, but I overheard her bragging about it.) She went camping with a couple of “hot” guys and woke up to find them making out.

    She ended up marrying a guy who made her family seem poor.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    That one went over your head and also you’re wrong anyway; tldr personality is king.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @J.Ross

    Fair enough.

  141. @Pixo
    Police and firemen in rich big cities and suburbs get insane pensions when they retire at 50. They are also likely to be alpha males who stay in relatively good shape.

    Lawyers and doctors have prestige on top of their income, and are more likely to be from wealthy families than accountants and engineers.

    Personally I think the most attractive common profession for a woman would probably be pediatrician or similar low stress and flexible family doctor. Worst professional job would be lawyeress. Accountant is boring for a man but indicates practical intelligence in a woman and sounds counterintuitively sexy. Oh baby, tell me all about the variable-interest qualified residential trust’s estate tax benefits.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @reactionry, @George, @SFG, @Carol, @Haxo Angmark, @Simon in London, @Jokah Macpherson, @Chrisnonymous

    It has nothing to with money or intelligence.

    The common denominator to all those attractive jobs is that they involve interacting with the world and changing it–i.e., imposing yourself, making your mark… This is also why there are TV shows about those jobs–you can create human drama around their activity. Accountants just sit and think. Not dramatic and not sexy.

    I guarantee that if you asked women about a criminal trial lawyer vs, say, a patent attorney, the trial lawyer would be much sexier.

  142. @megabar
    > I’m guessing that the common denominator in all this is that there are lots of TV shows and movies about lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors.

    Cause or effect? I think those shows are made because they are more interesting and respectable than other careers. I've accepted that my career -- software engineering -- is intrinsically boring and unimpressive to everyone other than other software engineers, and especially so to women, especially if you ignore the tech boom boost it got recently.

    Replies: @animalogic, @Anonymous

    “I’m guessing that the common denominator in all this is that there are lots of TV shows and movies about lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors.”
    The common denominator I can see is all these jobs have the possibility of major drama (& romance) . Life & death situations, life shattering events, moral outrage (justice/injustice) etc.

  143. anonymous[215] • Disclaimer says:
    @Spangel226
    @R.G. Camara

    Do women like detectives? Not sure of the fictional desirability of detectives reflects a male fantasy or a female one.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson, @anonymous

    How could women like detectives? They’re almost invariably fat, as anyone would be whose job requires mostly sitting, either at a computer or in a car. But in most detective novels it doesn’t come through that the guy is likely to look like William Conrad in “Cannon.”

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @anonymous

    Conrad later did a show called Jake and the Fatman. (That’s Fatman, not Fat Man.) He didn’t play Jake. Presumably, no one tuned in to the show under the false assumption that Jake’s co-star was going to resemble an underwear model.

    There is a movie about the atomic-bomb project called Fat Man and Little Boy. That title is somewhat unfortunate - it sounds like something out of a NAMBLA film festival. One imagines some greasy rotund 43-year-old pedophile salivating in anticipation as he enters the theater, only to discover to his horror and dismay that the subject matter pertains to World War II weapons development.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

  144. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Twinkie

    "Cops also tend to be much smoother in verbal interactions than firemen and often have shinier/wittier personalities. Firemen have a reputation for being dull."

    It seems most Americans draw their perceptions of civilian uniformed services personnel from the TeeVee.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    It seems most Americans draw their perceptions of civilian uniformed services personnel from the TeeVee.

    I hope you are not referring to me – I trained with the local LEOs for several years when I was posted to the PacNW.

    Note that I didn’t say cops were some shiny, witty people – I wrote that they tend to be more so than firemen. They spend far more time interacting with people on the street (esp. as patrol officers) than firemen do.

  145. @Muggles
    @Twinkie


    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.
     
    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.

    As for being "smart" sure most are smart enough. Most other physicians regard most (not all) surgeons as the mechanics of the medical world. Knowledgeable -- you hope - about where to cut and stitch, but not necessarily brilliant as to medicine as a whole.

    Other specialists are more highly regarded. Surgeons already know the problem; many other physicians have to first figure that out.

    Many surgeons have poor patient skills, since their work is mainly referral. So arrogant yes but not always prized by their peers.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.

    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again – I wrote “Surgery hours are long and brutal,” not that their overall hours are.

    Most other physicians regard most (not all) surgeons as the mechanics of the medical world.

    “Surgeons” mean nothing. What’s relevant is what type of a surgery a surgeon specializes. Neurosurgeons are some of the smartest of all doctors, barring M.D.-Ph.D.’s (who are really scientists).

    Listen to some of you opining like you know what you are talking about. I am on the board of a large, multi-state medical system.

    • Replies: @jonnyboy
    @Twinkie

    c suite cunt with no medical background. Also crnas represent what, maybe 0.5% at most of rns?

    , @Muggles
    @Twinkie


    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again – I wrote “Surgery hours are long and brutal,” not that their overall hours are.
     
    I hate to nitpick, but I will.

    When a generic complaint is made about "long and brutal hours" it usually refers to being "on call" in some respect. Not doing something that may take a few hours. Most routine operations don't take that long. I've had a few myself and was surprised at how quickly they did it.

    Also, in the kinds of surgery you cite they are normally done in teams, often with more than one surgeon doing the work. And specialized nurses, a whole team. And usually they can take breaks if they are working intensely for too long.

    Plenty of engineering jobs (repairs, construction, fabrication) take "hours" to complete, and not in clean air conditioned surgery suites. Attorneys, IT techs and accountants work very long hours, though unlike surgeons lives are not usually on the line.

    My comments re: "mechanics" (which is largely accurate) and "smarts" are drawn from my discussions with physicians and reading various accounts by other doctors and nurses.

    Neurologists and radiologists are usually considered "smarter" in that they have more medical training. Other highly specialized diagnosticians and treatment specialists as well.

    The somewhat lower regard for surgeons was surprising to me. Though the cutters and stitchers probably do regard themselves as the fighter pilots of medicine.

    Being on a hospital board (highly political and defensive bureaucracy) gives you one view. Talking to malpractice attorneys with MDs might provide another.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @YetAnotherAnon

  146. @Jack D
    @Twinkie


    If she lives in a super zip
     
    Generally speaking, salaries in super zip areas are going to be higher than the median. Maybe not high enough to fully make up for the difference in housing costs, but still above the median.

    The other thing about super zips is that they are self-selecting. If you don't make enough to afford a house in a super zip then you won't buy a house in a super zip. Maybe you'll work in the super zip and commute from some town where the prices are somewhat lower.

    The other thing is that degrees are not purely about making money. Degrees also earn you respect. People respect doctors more than they respect nurses. You can't take respect to the bank but it's still worth something.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Generally speaking, salaries in super zip areas are going to be higher than the median.

    WRONG. Super zips attract doctors easily and can afford to pay less competitively.

    Doctoring is very different from lawyering or IT work or what have you. In the latter professions, big cities and suburbs, esp. affluent, tony ones, pay the best. Doctoring is often the opposite – the places that pay big bucks are generally “underserved” areas that have trouble attracting physicians.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Sources?

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Anon

  147. @Twinkie
    @Whereismyhandle


    Plastics guys probably crush it.
     
    They are a bit on the shifty side.

    Cardiac and neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.
     
    Surgery hours are long and brutal. They are sort of the physicists of the physician world, meaning very smart.

    radiologists bc they’re chill, introverted nerds.
     
    Weirdos who don’t like patients and stay in the basements of hospitals. ;)

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Muggles, @Reg Cæsar

    Plastics guys probably crush it.

    They are a bit on the shifty side.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar

    Plastic surgery is a lot like law school. Many a lawyer has told me that, at the beginning of law schools 80% say they intend to work in the justice system to help people and about 20% of the students say that they want to practice corporate law and make money and then, at the end of law school, the numbers flip.

    Plastic surgeons are some of the most "entrepreneurial" of the medical doctors. And they make money from people who suffer some form of psych issues who are perpetually unhappy with their appearances. Only a minority of plastic surgeons do the noble work of fixing cleft lips and burn victims and the like.

    Replies: @Margate, @Curle

  148. @anonymous
    @Spangel226

    How could women like detectives? They're almost invariably fat, as anyone would be whose job requires mostly sitting, either at a computer or in a car. But in most detective novels it doesn't come through that the guy is likely to look like William Conrad in "Cannon."

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Conrad later did a show called Jake and the Fatman. (That’s Fatman, not Fat Man.) He didn’t play Jake. Presumably, no one tuned in to the show under the false assumption that Jake’s co-star was going to resemble an underwear model.

    There is a movie about the atomic-bomb project called Fat Man and Little Boy. That title is somewhat unfortunate – it sounds like something out of a NAMBLA film festival. One imagines some greasy rotund 43-year-old pedophile salivating in anticipation as he enters the theater, only to discover to his horror and dismay that the subject matter pertains to World War II weapons development.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Stan Adams


    Conrad later did a show called Jake and the Fatman.
     
    William Conrad was the voice of United States Marshall Matt Dillon in the 1950s radio show "Gunsmoke."

    I remember an mail order air gun store that sold his used Walther pellet gun decades ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YarqHRUIGok
  149. @jonnyboy
    @Twinkie

    2 lies in this post: any physician specialty making comparable money to a nurse outside of some very far outlying exceptions and ed patients being generally grateful to ed physicians

    Replies: @Twinkie

    2 lies in this post: any physician specialty making comparable money to a nurse outside of some very far outlying exceptions

    In my super zip, CRNAs often make more money (c. \$200K a year) than pediatricians (\$185K a year).

    ed patients being generally grateful to ed physicians

    ER patients are a heck a lot more grateful than, say, plastic surgery patients.

    If I could show you the patient satisfaction survey from my hospitals…

    Besides, ER docs can walk away once their shifts are over.

  150. @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie



    Plastics guys probably crush it.
     
    They are a bit on the shifty side.
     
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DHGCvJjat1E

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Plastic surgery is a lot like law school. Many a lawyer has told me that, at the beginning of law schools 80% say they intend to work in the justice system to help people and about 20% of the students say that they want to practice corporate law and make money and then, at the end of law school, the numbers flip.

    Plastic surgeons are some of the most “entrepreneurial” of the medical doctors. And they make money from people who suffer some form of psych issues who are perpetually unhappy with their appearances. Only a minority of plastic surgeons do the noble work of fixing cleft lips and burn victims and the like.

    • Replies: @Margate
    @Twinkie

    I've got surgery residents all around my apartment. One's general, one's ENT, one's plastic.

    The plastic one is a girl. It made me think about what that lifestyle is like, being married to a female plastic surgeon of all people. Kind of have to be a bit of a psycho to do that, never mind go through the training.

    You notice any personality differences based on gender?

    , @Curle
    @Twinkie

    “Many a lawyer has told me that, at the beginning of law schools 80% say they intend to work in the justice system to help people.” Not at the Ivies I’d venture.

  151. @Right_On
    @Whereismyhandle

    neuro surgeons are respected and elitist.

    Seen this classic sketch (two minutes long) about a brain surgeon?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I&ab_channel=BBC

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Thanks for that. Not only do I know several neurosurgeons, but I also have a cousin who has a Ph.D. in engineering and worked on surface-to-surface missiles. He teaches now and plays golf.

  152. Cops are almost always former jocks. Baseball and football players. They are built with big legs and barrel chests. That is what the broads find appealing. Downside is they are also 90IQ, so they will produce cute, athletically gifted, rather dim children.

  153. @Simon in London
    @Pixo

    My girl is an interpreter, definitely a very attractive profession for a female IMO.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Bill Jones

    My girl is an interpreter, definitely a very attractive profession for a female IMO.

    My Wife too. Every sentence I utter she translates and tells me what I really meant to say.

    • LOL: Escher
  154. @Twinkie
    @Muggles


    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.
     
    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again - I wrote "Surgery hours are long and brutal," not that their overall hours are.

    Most other physicians regard most (not all) surgeons as the mechanics of the medical world.
     
    "Surgeons" mean nothing. What's relevant is what type of a surgery a surgeon specializes. Neurosurgeons are some of the smartest of all doctors, barring M.D.-Ph.D.'s (who are really scientists).

    Listen to some of you opining like you know what you are talking about. I am on the board of a large, multi-state medical system.

    Replies: @jonnyboy, @Muggles

    c suite cunt with no medical background. Also crnas represent what, maybe 0.5% at most of rns?

  155. Anonymous[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @megabar
    > I’m guessing that the common denominator in all this is that there are lots of TV shows and movies about lawyers, police officers, firefighters, soldiers, and doctors.

    Cause or effect? I think those shows are made because they are more interesting and respectable than other careers. I've accepted that my career -- software engineering -- is intrinsically boring and unimpressive to everyone other than other software engineers, and especially so to women, especially if you ignore the tech boom boost it got recently.

    Replies: @animalogic, @Anonymous

    I’ve accepted that my career — software engineering — is intrinsically boring and unimpressive to everyone other than other software engineers, and especially so to women,

    There are definitely some careers that make a man attractive. Most careers are neutral. And then there are some that create negative status – even if the income is good. Try telling a woman you are a dentist.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Woody Allen parodied this in The Front (1976)

  156. Anybody who chooses a career based on the perception that it will provide money and women is setting himself up for disappointment. First of all, money and women aren’t always forthcoming, for reasons that nobody can ever explain. And secondly, even if they are forthcoming, they are not going to make up for the drudgery of doing something you aren’t suited for, day after day, for the rest of your life. Money and women cannot make you happy and the pursuit of these things in an immoderate way leads to nothingness.

    You should pick a career that seems right and proper to you, something that serves a legitimate need and can be executed righteously, without moral compromise. Everything else is just a gig-job, an affair without the full dignity worthy of a human life.

    • Agree: E. Rekshun, Dumbo
  157. @Verymuchalive
    Seth Stephens-Davidowitz’s

    Shouldn't that be Guns "N" Noses !

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Barrels and Nozzles.

    • LOL: Verymuchalive
    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    @Jonathan Mason

    I haven't heard the term nozzle used in a long time.
    It brings back amusing childhood memories.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  158. @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar

    Plastic surgery is a lot like law school. Many a lawyer has told me that, at the beginning of law schools 80% say they intend to work in the justice system to help people and about 20% of the students say that they want to practice corporate law and make money and then, at the end of law school, the numbers flip.

    Plastic surgeons are some of the most "entrepreneurial" of the medical doctors. And they make money from people who suffer some form of psych issues who are perpetually unhappy with their appearances. Only a minority of plastic surgeons do the noble work of fixing cleft lips and burn victims and the like.

    Replies: @Margate, @Curle

    I’ve got surgery residents all around my apartment. One’s general, one’s ENT, one’s plastic.

    The plastic one is a girl. It made me think about what that lifestyle is like, being married to a female plastic surgeon of all people. Kind of have to be a bit of a psycho to do that, never mind go through the training.

    You notice any personality differences based on gender?

  159. @anonymous
    Firefighters make way more than all but a slim minority of lawyers.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia, @Spangel226, @kicktheroos

    biggest scam on taxpayers are the firefighters , these guys should be sent to fight forest fires instead of sitting cozy at their stations doing BBQ,s or drinking coffee at starbucks or being sent out to do minor paramedic work anything but fighting real fires, the real firefighters are inmates getting paid 2 bucks per hour, these high paying jobs are reserved for low IQ legacy people who are of a large european island stock, all whites are in on the scam from the media who lionise these otherwise losers to white voters.

    • Replies: @gregor
    @kicktheroos

    Having a fire department is the kind of thing you don’t need everyday but the potential costs of fires are too catastrophic to get rid of it. Hence you must have the infrastructure and equipment in place and have trained guys on call 24/7. And once you have incurred those big fixed costs it makes sense to have them respond to traffic accidents etc in the meantime.

    Public employee unions are often able to secure benefits above market level, but that’s not unique to firefighters. The worst examples are usually in specific cities or states and new hires often don’t get as good a deal.

    Replies: @kicktheroos

    , @J.Ross
    @kicktheroos

    South Africa The Model, soon our situation will be like Detroit's in Burn, abundant time absorption opportunity is coming, Demented Joe got you an ice cream and its flavor is fire.

    , @Anonymous
    @kicktheroos

    The decline of smoking means there are a lot less fires now than pre-1990s. Being a fireman in the old days was a much more hectic and stressful job than it is today.

    Replies: @epebble

  160. @Cool Daddy Jimbo
    They call the local Cop-Fireman Boxing Smoker "Guns and Hoses." I thought that was pretty clever.

    Replies: @anon

    I’m a professional firefighter, we play a charity hockey game against the police and its called Guns and Hoses

  161. @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar

    Plastic surgery is a lot like law school. Many a lawyer has told me that, at the beginning of law schools 80% say they intend to work in the justice system to help people and about 20% of the students say that they want to practice corporate law and make money and then, at the end of law school, the numbers flip.

    Plastic surgeons are some of the most "entrepreneurial" of the medical doctors. And they make money from people who suffer some form of psych issues who are perpetually unhappy with their appearances. Only a minority of plastic surgeons do the noble work of fixing cleft lips and burn victims and the like.

    Replies: @Margate, @Curle

    “Many a lawyer has told me that, at the beginning of law schools 80% say they intend to work in the justice system to help people.” Not at the Ivies I’d venture.

  162. @Twinkie
    @Muggles


    Long and brutal hours. Maybe for ER surgeons or new ones. Most elective surgery is scheduled.
     
    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again - I wrote "Surgery hours are long and brutal," not that their overall hours are.

    Most other physicians regard most (not all) surgeons as the mechanics of the medical world.
     
    "Surgeons" mean nothing. What's relevant is what type of a surgery a surgeon specializes. Neurosurgeons are some of the smartest of all doctors, barring M.D.-Ph.D.'s (who are really scientists).

    Listen to some of you opining like you know what you are talking about. I am on the board of a large, multi-state medical system.

    Replies: @jonnyboy, @Muggles

    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again – I wrote “Surgery hours are long and brutal,” not that their overall hours are.

    I hate to nitpick, but I will.

    When a generic complaint is made about “long and brutal hours” it usually refers to being “on call” in some respect. Not doing something that may take a few hours. Most routine operations don’t take that long. I’ve had a few myself and was surprised at how quickly they did it.

    Also, in the kinds of surgery you cite they are normally done in teams, often with more than one surgeon doing the work. And specialized nurses, a whole team. And usually they can take breaks if they are working intensely for too long.

    Plenty of engineering jobs (repairs, construction, fabrication) take “hours” to complete, and not in clean air conditioned surgery suites. Attorneys, IT techs and accountants work very long hours, though unlike surgeons lives are not usually on the line.

    My comments re: “mechanics” (which is largely accurate) and “smarts” are drawn from my discussions with physicians and reading various accounts by other doctors and nurses.

    Neurologists and radiologists are usually considered “smarter” in that they have more medical training. Other highly specialized diagnosticians and treatment specialists as well.

    The somewhat lower regard for surgeons was surprising to me. Though the cutters and stitchers probably do regard themselves as the fighter pilots of medicine.

    Being on a hospital board (highly political and defensive bureaucracy) gives you one view. Talking to malpractice attorneys with MDs might provide another.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Muggles


    I hate to nitpick, but I will.
     
    Now let me "nitpick:

    When a generic complaint is made about “long and brutal hours”
     
    *I* didn't make "a generic complaint." I wrote that "surgery hours are long and brutal." Don't argue with a straw man.

    Neurologists and radiologists are usually considered “smarter” in that they have more medical training.
     
    They, along with anesthesiologists, are more like "systems engineers." They tend to have good knowledge of the entire human body. However, cognitively, neurosurgeons are more selectively picked. I've seen the SAT and MCAT numbers. ;)

    Being on a hospital board (highly political and defensive bureaucracy) gives you one view. Talking to malpractice attorneys with MDs might provide another.
     
    My wife is an MD (and PhD) and is the clinical head of a hospital. Good enough for you?

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Muggles

    "Attorneys, IT techs and accountants work very long hours, though unlike surgeons lives are not usually on the line."




    I've worked long hours in IT, but there's a natural cut-off point after 11 or 12 hours (less hours as one ages) beyond which, if you continue writing code, you'll probably end up redoing what you've written the following day. So you stop and go get food and some sleep. Not many people can operate at full throttle for 14 or 15 hours straight.

    When a friend's child had a major brain operation, it lasted something like 18 hours and took two teams of surgeons (and presumably anaesthetists and nurses too) - I'm not sure if anyone was there for the whole thing except the patient. Sounded like harder work than writing code.

  163. @RadicalCenter
    HomoPedalius - is that Pete Buttigieg on a bicycle?

    Replies: @James J. O'Meara

    It’s a workout bike.

  164. It has nothing to do with movies and everything to do with authority, which is attractive to most women. Those professions have authority and power.

  165. @animalogic
    @R.G. Camara

    I think you're pretty spot on.
    "and firemen have absolutely zero negative baggage in the culture. "
    No fireman in a nightclub needs to lie about their occupation -- same (whether fair or not) can't be said for police....

    Replies: @James J. O'Meara

    Better than being a Treasury agent. Well, who would claim to be that, who was not? Hmm?

  166. @J.Ross
    @Stan Adams

    That one went over your head and also you're wrong anyway; tldr personality is king.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    Fair enough.

  167. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Twinkie

    I also heard that Dermatologists have very high job satisfaction rates. It is the specialty with the best work hours (typical 9-5 with very little call) and is generally low stress. It is also one of the most competitive residencies for graduating medical students to land. So you get a lot of the most intelligent doctors going into a specialty that, with the exception of skin cancer diagnosis and treatment, doesn’t really save a whole lot of lives.

    Replies: @James J. O'Meara

    It takes a really big zit to kill a man.

  168. @kicktheroos
    @anonymous

    biggest scam on taxpayers are the firefighters , these guys should be sent to fight forest fires instead of sitting cozy at their stations doing BBQ,s or drinking coffee at starbucks or being sent out to do minor paramedic work anything but fighting real fires, the real firefighters are inmates getting paid 2 bucks per hour, these high paying jobs are reserved for low IQ legacy people who are of a large european island stock, all whites are in on the scam from the media who lionise these otherwise losers to white voters.

    Replies: @gregor, @J.Ross, @Anonymous

    Having a fire department is the kind of thing you don’t need everyday but the potential costs of fires are too catastrophic to get rid of it. Hence you must have the infrastructure and equipment in place and have trained guys on call 24/7. And once you have incurred those big fixed costs it makes sense to have them respond to traffic accidents etc in the meantime.

    Public employee unions are often able to secure benefits above market level, but that’s not unique to firefighters. The worst examples are usually in specific cities or states and new hires often don’t get as good a deal.

    • Replies: @kicktheroos
    @gregor

    You can give me all the reasoning you can i still think they are grossly overpaid , for just sitting around lifting weights spending time at the grocery store getting beef for their bbq's siiting at starbucks because doing nothing at the firestation I guess can get boring ,cops and firefighters have bankrupted cities in ca. High paying Firfighter jobs are a kind of subsidy for the oldest settlers of this country, and asian immigrants are footing the bill . Train mexican americans for these jobs you will get the same quality of work for one hundredth of what the low IQ high school jocks will give you.Let me say it again Firefifhters are grossly overpaid for what is very safe work some of the safest in USA.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @J.Ross

  169. @Stan Adams
    @anonymous

    Conrad later did a show called Jake and the Fatman. (That’s Fatman, not Fat Man.) He didn’t play Jake. Presumably, no one tuned in to the show under the false assumption that Jake’s co-star was going to resemble an underwear model.

    There is a movie about the atomic-bomb project called Fat Man and Little Boy. That title is somewhat unfortunate - it sounds like something out of a NAMBLA film festival. One imagines some greasy rotund 43-year-old pedophile salivating in anticipation as he enters the theater, only to discover to his horror and dismay that the subject matter pertains to World War II weapons development.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    Conrad later did a show called Jake and the Fatman.

    William Conrad was the voice of United States Marshall Matt Dillon in the 1950s radio show “Gunsmoke.”

    I remember an mail order air gun store that sold his used Walther pellet gun decades ago.

    • Thanks: Stan Adams
  170. Those men are more useful

    Being married to a lawyer who can’t unplug the toilet or sink Gets Old FAST

    There’s nothing worse than a man who can’t use his hands

    A little real world work (not intellectual b.s.) goes a long way

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @Thoughts

    Almost all men over 30 can do all that stuff.

    You are making things up.

  171. @TWS
    @R.G. Camara

    Cops get to most fires and they get there first. I don't know an officer who hasn't ran into a burning building. And, 'leather-lung' without a mask or tank.

    Firemen are usually in better shape unless the cop makes a serious effort. The job is simply more physical and the tests were notoriously hard. Because they have to admit women, the tests have gotten much easier.

    Plus, while there are a few volunteer police officers, there are many volunteer firemen. Most small towns or rural areas only pay the chief and maybe the engineer. It's not the money, it's the jobs that attract women.

    I have mentioned this before here but I don't expect folks to remember details about all of the stuff we post. Anyway I taught martial arts and self defense before I was a police officer. It's part of why I took the job, so many of my students were cops. And I was in very good shape.

    After I got the badge, women who I had previously known as friends started throwing themselves at me. In some cases these were women who I had already politely declined previous offers. Heck, my wife showed more interest!

    Police have power and visible signs of power. Women are attracted to it. Being in shape and being capable of violence doesn't hurt. No woman is attracted to the pension many, many officers expect the kids of their third or fifth wife to be getting a chunk of whatever they are getting anyway.

    TV doesn't hurt, because it reinforced the message, 'cops have power '. It used to reinforce the message that cops were good investigators and had uncanny instincts but now on TV most of investigation and interrogation is done by 'forensic teams' of quirky autists and bisexual women with borderline mental illness haircuts.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    …borderline mental illness haircuts.

    Very good. Tell us some cop stories.

  172. @J.Ross
    OT -- Does anyone have a copy of Harold Saltzman's 1972 book Race War in High School which they want to scan (& convert to PDF) or sell for less than two hundred dollars? Alternately, have you seen this book around online?

    Replies: @epebble

    There is a used copy for \$64

    Race war in high school;: The ten-year destruction of Franklin K. Lane High School in Brooklyn Loose Leaf – January 1, 1972
    by Harold Saltzman (Author)

    Hardcover
    \$189.32

    Loose Leaf
    \$63.96

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @epebble

    What the hell is loose leaf? Is that a euphemism for a destroyed paperback copy fumbled back together? Sixty dollars for that?
    If it comes down to me, I need to buy a scanner to replace one lost to a flood, but I used to scan books as a hobby, and once I get that set up I can request one of five (5) copies in my state through the library system. Most states have a system where you can search and request books from another library miles away. There's still a ton of stuff not on the internet and in 2020 there was a huge wave of censorship (eg, BestGore). Just the other day I was trying to use YouTube (which abandoned almost all their user tools in 2020 or just before) and I wanted to give up because it was so artificially hard.

    Replies: @epebble

  173. @J.Ross
    @animalogic

    A “business man” is attractive, not least for their wealth.

    No. No, and less so now that chicks have their own bankrolls. Elliott Rodger had plenty of money.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @Hermes

    Chicks having their own bankrolls has certainly made the standard UMC guy with a house with granite countertops and stainless steel appliances and a BMW in the driveway not particularly attractive for his wealth, but a Ferrari, vacation house, and private jet are on another level. Gold diggers do still exist.

  174. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    Generally speaking, salaries in super zip areas are going to be higher than the median.
     
    WRONG. Super zips attract doctors easily and can afford to pay less competitively.

    Doctoring is very different from lawyering or IT work or what have you. In the latter professions, big cities and suburbs, esp. affluent, tony ones, pay the best. Doctoring is often the opposite - the places that pay big bucks are generally "underserved" areas that have trouble attracting physicians.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Sources?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    Sources?
     
    Anybody who’s remotely familiar with medicine knows this. One call to a recruiter would confirm it too. But if you insist: https://physiciansthrive.com/physician-compensation/report/

    Large and mid-sized metro areas, where there are more medical institutions and more medical professionals, continue to pay some of the lowest salaries.

    Rural areas, which tend to have a more difficult time recruiting top-tier talent, continue to pay some of the highest salaries in the country.
     
    I hope, in the future, you will have a source ready for all your assertions.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Anon
    @Jack D

    I live in Los Angeles County. My allergist said that LA Country has a hard time attracting young allergists because the pay is higher, and cost of living is lower, in flyover country.

  175. @Reg Cæsar
    @SafeNow


    USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year...

    Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.
     
    That was true in my day, but you're not serious about today, are you?

    Even in the 1970s, we had "opportunities" in other ports. One of ours was in Port Antonio, Jamaica. The USDA interviewed us upon our return to the US, lest we inadvertently introduce some biological hazard. Perhaps the CDC should have as well.

    Oh, and there were a few weeks at Gtmo. Everyday Cubans were allowed through the gate to work in the bar and at other service jobs. I'm sure many were open to making a few extra verdes.

    There is also a greater risk for her to have an affair. One shipmate returned early from one of our sorties to find his new wife in bed with a friend from their disco days, whom he had assumed was safely gay.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @nebulafox, @SafeNow, @SafeNow

    I was referring to a marriage-destroying affair, not a quick adventure. I should have been more specific. Btw, apparently the same time and the same place. Can’t give identifying info, and rightly so, but it’s a heckuva possibility to think about.

  176. @Reg Cæsar
    @SafeNow


    USCG deployments have been inching up toward 200 days per year...

    Plus, no worries that the absent husband is going to conduct an affair.
     
    That was true in my day, but you're not serious about today, are you?

    Even in the 1970s, we had "opportunities" in other ports. One of ours was in Port Antonio, Jamaica. The USDA interviewed us upon our return to the US, lest we inadvertently introduce some biological hazard. Perhaps the CDC should have as well.

    Oh, and there were a few weeks at Gtmo. Everyday Cubans were allowed through the gate to work in the bar and at other service jobs. I'm sure many were open to making a few extra verdes.

    There is also a greater risk for her to have an affair. One shipmate returned early from one of our sorties to find his new wife in bed with a friend from their disco days, whom he had assumed was safely gay.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara, @nebulafox, @SafeNow, @SafeNow

    I was referring to a marriage-destroying affair, not a quick adventure. I should have been more specific. Btw, same time and same place.

  177. @Spangel226
    Fwiw, these are the top professions of men in romance novels.

    https://www.adweek.com/galleycat/10-most-popular-professions-for-romance-novel-heroes/29451

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Freedom’s Fortune (IIRC) featured an Alaskan fisherman who the heroine was unaware was a Seattle CEO on summer vacation. Okay, Gates takes a week off to meditate or whatever, but come on… what genuine CEO takes a whole summer off? Just to exercise his testosterone!

    The worst aspect of this was that the author’s own brother is an Alaskan fisherman, a real one. In addition to insulting real-world executives, she mocked her own kin and his mates.

  178. @R.G. Camara
    @Reg Cæsar

    Plus today literally women are on ships. You don't even need to go into port to get any, just nail the one down the hall.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    …just nail the one down the hall.

    Passageway, matey.

    And you’d treenail her.

  179. @duncsbaby
    I would disagree that female attraction to men w/these jobs is based on tv viewing. The attraction was there before tv viewing came into play. Most women are attracted to strong, successful, men.

    Btw, I first came across the "guns & hoses" tag line in a Nelson DeMille novel, "The Lion's Game," where the airport emergency squad is made up of firemen and policemen who do both jobs and call themselves, "Guns and Hoses."

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Discordiax, @Legba

    I would just add that the tv shows probably came about BECAUSE the jobs seem glamorous and to guys, too

  180. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Sources?

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Anon

    Sources?

    Anybody who’s remotely familiar with medicine knows this. One call to a recruiter would confirm it too. But if you insist: https://physiciansthrive.com/physician-compensation/report/

    Large and mid-sized metro areas, where there are more medical institutions and more medical professionals, continue to pay some of the lowest salaries.

    Rural areas, which tend to have a more difficult time recruiting top-tier talent, continue to pay some of the highest salaries in the country.

    I hope, in the future, you will have a source ready for all your assertions.

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    Rural areas, which tend to have a more difficult time recruiting top-tier talent, continue to pay some of the highest salaries in the country.
     
    Plus, you can afford to buy half the real estate in town. Whereas in the city, your low seven-figure salary is lucky to wedge you into a gated condo lot.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  181. @Muggles
    @Twinkie


    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again – I wrote “Surgery hours are long and brutal,” not that their overall hours are.
     
    I hate to nitpick, but I will.

    When a generic complaint is made about "long and brutal hours" it usually refers to being "on call" in some respect. Not doing something that may take a few hours. Most routine operations don't take that long. I've had a few myself and was surprised at how quickly they did it.

    Also, in the kinds of surgery you cite they are normally done in teams, often with more than one surgeon doing the work. And specialized nurses, a whole team. And usually they can take breaks if they are working intensely for too long.

    Plenty of engineering jobs (repairs, construction, fabrication) take "hours" to complete, and not in clean air conditioned surgery suites. Attorneys, IT techs and accountants work very long hours, though unlike surgeons lives are not usually on the line.

    My comments re: "mechanics" (which is largely accurate) and "smarts" are drawn from my discussions with physicians and reading various accounts by other doctors and nurses.

    Neurologists and radiologists are usually considered "smarter" in that they have more medical training. Other highly specialized diagnosticians and treatment specialists as well.

    The somewhat lower regard for surgeons was surprising to me. Though the cutters and stitchers probably do regard themselves as the fighter pilots of medicine.

    Being on a hospital board (highly political and defensive bureaucracy) gives you one view. Talking to malpractice attorneys with MDs might provide another.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @YetAnotherAnon

    I hate to nitpick, but I will.

    Now let me “nitpick:

    When a generic complaint is made about “long and brutal hours”

    *I* didn’t make “a generic complaint.” I wrote that “surgery hours are long and brutal.” Don’t argue with a straw man.

    Neurologists and radiologists are usually considered “smarter” in that they have more medical training.

    They, along with anesthesiologists, are more like “systems engineers.” They tend to have good knowledge of the entire human body. However, cognitively, neurosurgeons are more selectively picked. I’ve seen the SAT and MCAT numbers. 😉

    Being on a hospital board (highly political and defensive bureaucracy) gives you one view. Talking to malpractice attorneys with MDs might provide another.

    My wife is an MD (and PhD) and is the clinical head of a hospital. Good enough for you?

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, how did a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can't even discuss things in a non-autistic way during your down time while just shooting the breeze on the internet, ever manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done?
    That, to me, is the interesting question.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

  182. @Thoughts
    Those men are more useful

    Being married to a lawyer who can't unplug the toilet or sink Gets Old FAST

    There's nothing worse than a man who can't use his hands

    A little real world work (not intellectual b.s.) goes a long way

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

    Almost all men over 30 can do all that stuff.

    You are making things up.

  183. @Twinkie
    @Muggles


    I hate to nitpick, but I will.
     
    Now let me "nitpick:

    When a generic complaint is made about “long and brutal hours”
     
    *I* didn't make "a generic complaint." I wrote that "surgery hours are long and brutal." Don't argue with a straw man.

    Neurologists and radiologists are usually considered “smarter” in that they have more medical training.
     
    They, along with anesthesiologists, are more like "systems engineers." They tend to have good knowledge of the entire human body. However, cognitively, neurosurgeons are more selectively picked. I've seen the SAT and MCAT numbers. ;)

    Being on a hospital board (highly political and defensive bureaucracy) gives you one view. Talking to malpractice attorneys with MDs might provide another.
     
    My wife is an MD (and PhD) and is the clinical head of a hospital. Good enough for you?

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

    Twinkie, how did a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can’t even discuss things in a non-autistic way during your down time while just shooting the breeze on the internet, ever manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done?
    That, to me, is the interesting question.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @middle-aged vet

    Twinkie is not a real personality. He's a glowie. So are Jack D and Rosie.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet, @Twinkie

    , @J.Ross
    @middle-aged vet

    (the secret is, he's a great guy as long as he can keep himself offline)

    , @Twinkie
    @middle-aged vet

    I picked my parents well. Then I picked my wife well. Two best choices in life.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @middle-aged vet


    a guy with an... autism frame of mind
     
    Wasn't that a hit for Billy Joel?
  184. @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, how did a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can't even discuss things in a non-autistic way during your down time while just shooting the breeze on the internet, ever manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done?
    That, to me, is the interesting question.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    Twinkie is not a real personality. He’s a glowie. So are Jack D and Rosie.

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @Intelligent Dasein

    What is the word for the ability to figure such things out?

    I have probably wasted a lot of time arguing in good faith with internet accounts who had no intention of arguing in good faith with me.

    It does not bother me but, as a matter of intellectual curiosity, what does one call such people?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @Twinkie
    @Intelligent Dasein

    You still here? I thought you were sick to death over your unrecognized genius. Why do you keep commenting on a blog run by a guy you obviously hold in such a low regard?

    Go start your own blog.

  185. @Twinkie
    @Jack D


    Sources?
     
    Anybody who’s remotely familiar with medicine knows this. One call to a recruiter would confirm it too. But if you insist: https://physiciansthrive.com/physician-compensation/report/

    Large and mid-sized metro areas, where there are more medical institutions and more medical professionals, continue to pay some of the lowest salaries.

    Rural areas, which tend to have a more difficult time recruiting top-tier talent, continue to pay some of the highest salaries in the country.
     
    I hope, in the future, you will have a source ready for all your assertions.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Rural areas, which tend to have a more difficult time recruiting top-tier talent, continue to pay some of the highest salaries in the country.

    Plus, you can afford to buy half the real estate in town. Whereas in the city, your low seven-figure salary is lucky to wedge you into a gated condo lot.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    Plus, you can afford to buy half the real estate in town.
     
    That’s exactly what a friend of mine did. He’s an MD, moved to small town in the South, runs a department at his hospital, and owns gobs of land and real estate nearby. He hunts and fishes to his heart’s content on his own land. He’s an important guy in town. Married a sweet nurse. I always half-jokingly tell him that he invented a Time Machine - he traveled back in time to the 1950’s.

    That said, his town is pretty hard hit by the opioid epidemic and is pretty hardscrabble. Lots of unemployed natives, tons of Hispanics for the local farms and poultry operations. The local public schools are 40% Hispanic. His kids are in prep schools elsewhere.

    Replies: @Anon

  186. @epebble
    @J.Ross

    There is a used copy for $64

    Race war in high school;: The ten-year destruction of Franklin K. Lane High School in Brooklyn Loose Leaf – January 1, 1972
    by Harold Saltzman (Author)

    Hardcover
    $189.32

    Loose Leaf
    $63.96

    https://www.amazon.com/Race-war-high-school-destruction/dp/0870001701

    Replies: @J.Ross

    What the hell is loose leaf? Is that a euphemism for a destroyed paperback copy fumbled back together? Sixty dollars for that?
    If it comes down to me, I need to buy a scanner to replace one lost to a flood, but I used to scan books as a hobby, and once I get that set up I can request one of five (5) copies in my state through the library system. Most states have a system where you can search and request books from another library miles away. There’s still a ton of stuff not on the internet and in 2020 there was a huge wave of censorship (eg, BestGore). Just the other day I was trying to use YouTube (which abandoned almost all their user tools in 2020 or just before) and I wanted to give up because it was so artificially hard.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @J.Ross

    Going by this: https://www.christianbook.com/kjv-loose-leaf-bible/9781565633247/pd/633245

    I think Loose Leaf may mean https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-067b178efadac93b7c586e0ac43aa295-c

    But, why would a non-textbook be in that format? I suspect it may just be a paperback.

  187. @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, how did a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can't even discuss things in a non-autistic way during your down time while just shooting the breeze on the internet, ever manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done?
    That, to me, is the interesting question.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    (the secret is, he’s a great guy as long as he can keep himself offline)

    • LOL: Twinkie
  188. @kicktheroos
    @anonymous

    biggest scam on taxpayers are the firefighters , these guys should be sent to fight forest fires instead of sitting cozy at their stations doing BBQ,s or drinking coffee at starbucks or being sent out to do minor paramedic work anything but fighting real fires, the real firefighters are inmates getting paid 2 bucks per hour, these high paying jobs are reserved for low IQ legacy people who are of a large european island stock, all whites are in on the scam from the media who lionise these otherwise losers to white voters.

    Replies: @gregor, @J.Ross, @Anonymous

    South Africa The Model, soon our situation will be like Detroit’s in Burn, abundant time absorption opportunity is coming, Demented Joe got you an ice cream and its flavor is fire.

  189. @Intelligent Dasein
    @middle-aged vet

    Twinkie is not a real personality. He's a glowie. So are Jack D and Rosie.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet, @Twinkie

    What is the word for the ability to figure such things out?

    I have probably wasted a lot of time arguing in good faith with internet accounts who had no intention of arguing in good faith with me.

    It does not bother me but, as a matter of intellectual curiosity, what does one call such people?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @middle-aged vet


    I have probably wasted a lot of time arguing in good faith with internet accounts who had no intention of arguing in good faith with me.
     
    Good faith? Really? Is calling someone autistic instead of engaging the substance of the arguments a good faith way of discourse?

    Try presenting a coherent, well-formulated argument and save the ad hominem. You’ll find me a far more congenial discussant.

    You want to know the real secret of my success in real life? I don’t suffer fools gladly and only associate with forthright people.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @middle-aged vet

  190. @J.Ross
    @epebble

    What the hell is loose leaf? Is that a euphemism for a destroyed paperback copy fumbled back together? Sixty dollars for that?
    If it comes down to me, I need to buy a scanner to replace one lost to a flood, but I used to scan books as a hobby, and once I get that set up I can request one of five (5) copies in my state through the library system. Most states have a system where you can search and request books from another library miles away. There's still a ton of stuff not on the internet and in 2020 there was a huge wave of censorship (eg, BestGore). Just the other day I was trying to use YouTube (which abandoned almost all their user tools in 2020 or just before) and I wanted to give up because it was so artificially hard.

    Replies: @epebble

    Going by this: https://www.christianbook.com/kjv-loose-leaf-bible/9781565633247/pd/633245

    I think Loose Leaf may mean https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-067b178efadac93b7c586e0ac43aa295-c

    But, why would a non-textbook be in that format? I suspect it may just be a paperback.

  191. @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, how did a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can't even discuss things in a non-autistic way during your down time while just shooting the breeze on the internet, ever manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done?
    That, to me, is the interesting question.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    I picked my parents well. Then I picked my wife well. Two best choices in life.

  192. @Intelligent Dasein
    @middle-aged vet

    Twinkie is not a real personality. He's a glowie. So are Jack D and Rosie.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet, @Twinkie

    You still here? I thought you were sick to death over your unrecognized genius. Why do you keep commenting on a blog run by a guy you obviously hold in such a low regard?

    Go start your own blog.

  193. @Reg Cæsar
    @Twinkie


    Rural areas, which tend to have a more difficult time recruiting top-tier talent, continue to pay some of the highest salaries in the country.
     
    Plus, you can afford to buy half the real estate in town. Whereas in the city, your low seven-figure salary is lucky to wedge you into a gated condo lot.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Plus, you can afford to buy half the real estate in town.

    That’s exactly what a friend of mine did. He’s an MD, moved to small town in the South, runs a department at his hospital, and owns gobs of land and real estate nearby. He hunts and fishes to his heart’s content on his own land. He’s an important guy in town. Married a sweet nurse. I always half-jokingly tell him that he invented a Time Machine – he traveled back in time to the 1950’s.

    That said, his town is pretty hard hit by the opioid epidemic and is pretty hardscrabble. Lots of unemployed natives, tons of Hispanics for the local farms and poultry operations. The local public schools are 40% Hispanic. His kids are in prep schools elsewhere.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Twinkie

    I bet he's appreciated so much by the rabble he is pricing out of the area.

    Tell me that he has at least refrained from buying local politicians, or convincing allied carpetbaggers from running for local office. Tell me he has at least refrained from banging the drum to start a needle-sharing program. Tell me he has at least refrained from starting an "arts committee" to invite head-banging acts and rappers to give regular ear-splitting concerts in the town square. Tell me that he isn't going around saying "this place is so *whitebread*, it needs change and a new beginning." In short, at least tell me your friend isn't a Jew.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  194. @Jonathan Mason
    @Verymuchalive

    Barrels and Nozzles.

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    I haven’t heard the term nozzle used in a long time.
    It brings back amusing childhood memories.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Verymuchalive

    It takes a long time to calibrate.

  195. @Verymuchalive
    @Jonathan Mason

    I haven't heard the term nozzle used in a long time.
    It brings back amusing childhood memories.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    It takes a long time to calibrate.

    • Agree: Verymuchalive
  196. @gregor
    @kicktheroos

    Having a fire department is the kind of thing you don’t need everyday but the potential costs of fires are too catastrophic to get rid of it. Hence you must have the infrastructure and equipment in place and have trained guys on call 24/7. And once you have incurred those big fixed costs it makes sense to have them respond to traffic accidents etc in the meantime.

    Public employee unions are often able to secure benefits above market level, but that’s not unique to firefighters. The worst examples are usually in specific cities or states and new hires often don’t get as good a deal.

    Replies: @kicktheroos

    You can give me all the reasoning you can i still think they are grossly overpaid , for just sitting around lifting weights spending time at the grocery store getting beef for their bbq’s siiting at starbucks because doing nothing at the firestation I guess can get boring ,cops and firefighters have bankrupted cities in ca. High paying Firfighter jobs are a kind of subsidy for the oldest settlers of this country, and asian immigrants are footing the bill . Train mexican americans for these jobs you will get the same quality of work for one hundredth of what the low IQ high school jocks will give you.Let me say it again Firefifhters are grossly overpaid for what is very safe work some of the safest in USA.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @kicktheroos

    Guy I know has a son who's a fireman in Columbus, Ohio. He works 9 24s a month and makes a base of $150k. On his days off, he sometimes works at other departments that are short on staff.

    , @J.Ross
    @kicktheroos

    AFTER UVALDE you want to hand fire over to the sleepy goblins?

  197. @Jack D
    @Twinkie

    Sources?

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Anon

    I live in Los Angeles County. My allergist said that LA Country has a hard time attracting young allergists because the pay is higher, and cost of living is lower, in flyover country.

  198. @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, how did a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can't even discuss things in a non-autistic way during your down time while just shooting the breeze on the internet, ever manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done?
    That, to me, is the interesting question.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @J.Ross, @Twinkie, @Reg Cæsar

    a guy with anautism frame of mind

    Wasn’t that a hit for Billy Joel?

  199. @middle-aged vet
    @Intelligent Dasein

    What is the word for the ability to figure such things out?

    I have probably wasted a lot of time arguing in good faith with internet accounts who had no intention of arguing in good faith with me.

    It does not bother me but, as a matter of intellectual curiosity, what does one call such people?

    Replies: @Twinkie

    I have probably wasted a lot of time arguing in good faith with internet accounts who had no intention of arguing in good faith with me.

    Good faith? Really? Is calling someone autistic instead of engaging the substance of the arguments a good faith way of discourse?

    Try presenting a coherent, well-formulated argument and save the ad hominem. You’ll find me a far more congenial discussant.

    You want to know the real secret of my success in real life? I don’t suffer fools gladly and only associate with forthright people.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Twinkie

    "You want to know the real secret of my success in real life? ...only associate with forthright people. "

    Well... the comment section here being the exception. :)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    Did not call you autistic, Twinkie, I described the way you argued on this thread. (that is why I used the term 'frame of mind') - it is a rhetorical thing, not an insult.

    Successful people in life often go through a period where they tolerate people who are willing to criticize them effectively and (to the outsider) in what seems a cruel way.
    Skull and Bones, Parrish Island, American Idol, Gordon Ramsay cooking shows, for men.
    There are examples for women, I guess, but I don't really know what they are.
    Suck it up if you want to be better.

    That being said, if you want to settle for triumphantly insulting me, go ahead. You would not be the first who missed a really good opportunity to learn something from a confrontational conversation.

    I have my faults, but if you seriously think I am a fool, that is a category error that you should not be proud of making. Finally, congrats on your good choices in life, and thanks for answering that part of my question.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  200. @Twinkie
    @middle-aged vet


    I have probably wasted a lot of time arguing in good faith with internet accounts who had no intention of arguing in good faith with me.
     
    Good faith? Really? Is calling someone autistic instead of engaging the substance of the arguments a good faith way of discourse?

    Try presenting a coherent, well-formulated argument and save the ad hominem. You’ll find me a far more congenial discussant.

    You want to know the real secret of my success in real life? I don’t suffer fools gladly and only associate with forthright people.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @middle-aged vet

    “You want to know the real secret of my success in real life? …only associate with forthright people. ”

    Well… the comment section here being the exception. 🙂

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Mike Tre


    Well… the comment section here being the exception. 🙂
     
    Virtual associations don't count!
  201. @Anonymous
    Steve writes:
    ""
    unhappy families tend not to have dad around to keep the daughters off the pole by keeping them interested in sports.

    In male sports, guys can claw their way to the top without a strong father figure around, although it definitely helps. But most top women athletes not only had a father in their lives to pay for lessons and country club dues, but they tended to have a very good relationship with their dads
    ""

    It might be true in sports that dads are more important for daughters than sons, but this is not true in most domains, particularly not when it comes to one's children's reproductive success.

    The older a man is the more likely he is to have daughters. (Maternal age is not a factor, but paternal age is.) This phenomenon is somehow mediated by the man's biological clock. This tells us that natural selection has discovered that 1) old men tend to not live long enough to see their children to adulthood, and 2) this fact is particularly detrimental to sons survival and/or reproductive fitness, while being less detrimental to daughters'.

    Young men need fathers, protectors, mentors and providers in order to survive long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. Young women, on the other hand, will almost always manage to reproduce, (unless particularly ghastly) regardless of their father's input, or lack thereof.

    Concrete example: fatherless young men tend to be poor. Poor young men are grunts and cannon fodder in rich men's wars. Rich men's sons get "university exemptions" or "bone spur" diagnoses from daddy's doc, or, as a last resort, serve as officers (where they have "access" to the daughters of the defeated enemy).

    Young men need fathers to live long enough and reach a status high enough to have children of their own. This has been the case going back thousands of generations, hence, why men (the sex determining parent) are biologically programmed such that the older they become, the less likely their offspring is to be male.

    Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri, @ic1000, @Mr. Anon, @Spangel226, @Anon, @Anon

    A bunch of Just-So speculation and gobbledygook. “Evolutionary Psychology” is catnip to armchair theorizers.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Anon

    A good definition of 1) sociology; 2) critical theory and its derivatives; and 3) everything that starts with the assumption that equality is an default truth.

  202. visibility principle. murderers and serial killers also get more fan mail from women than the other guys in the joint.

    putting aside his very openly liberal politics, not as impressed with the Davidowitz material as some other people are. this stuff seemed obvious to me when the web started to go mainstream around 1997. one of the first things i thought of was a linguistics project where regional accents were sorted out via web surveys, which is something that started to show up in the linguistics literature within 10 years, and wikipedia began to sort out how many actual speakers there were of each language, versus linguists trying to guess.

    next up were the porn sites, which were able to take all their web data to make predictions and marketing decisions to increase sales. pornhub began posting their data in public yearly. it showed that the rate of homosexuality in the general population matched about exactly what the serious researchers had always arrived at – in the 3% to 4% range.

    then the movie studios, which were able to use web data to estimate ticket sales ahead of time, and change marketing strategies. next up were the dating sites data sets, which mostly showed what we could guess, as well as a few new surprising things that weren’t intuitive. these are some of the reasons i didn’t agree with the idea that Larry Summers already figured out that the internet data sets were of no use for stock traders. uh, yeah they are. otherwise the Wall Street Bets thing wouldn’t have happened.

  203. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    @Reg Cæsar


    Plus, you can afford to buy half the real estate in town.
     
    That’s exactly what a friend of mine did. He’s an MD, moved to small town in the South, runs a department at his hospital, and owns gobs of land and real estate nearby. He hunts and fishes to his heart’s content on his own land. He’s an important guy in town. Married a sweet nurse. I always half-jokingly tell him that he invented a Time Machine - he traveled back in time to the 1950’s.

    That said, his town is pretty hard hit by the opioid epidemic and is pretty hardscrabble. Lots of unemployed natives, tons of Hispanics for the local farms and poultry operations. The local public schools are 40% Hispanic. His kids are in prep schools elsewhere.

    Replies: @Anon

    I bet he’s appreciated so much by the rabble he is pricing out of the area.

    Tell me that he has at least refrained from buying local politicians, or convincing allied carpetbaggers from running for local office. Tell me he has at least refrained from banging the drum to start a needle-sharing program. Tell me he has at least refrained from starting an “arts committee” to invite head-banging acts and rappers to give regular ear-splitting concerts in the town square. Tell me that he isn’t going around saying “this place is so *whitebread*, it needs change and a new beginning.” In short, at least tell me your friend isn’t a Jew.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Anon


    In short, at least tell me your friend isn’t a Jew.
     
    He is a white Southerner of mixed English, German, and Scots-Irish heritage and hails from Appalachia. Happy?

    The rest of your griping ("I bet he’s appreciated so much by the rabble he is pricing out of the area") reminds me of the way blacks endlessly complain about whites:

    1. When whites DON'T move to the black neighborhoods, blacks cry of segregation and whine that racist whites won't live with them.

    2. When whites DO move to the black neighborhoods, blacks cry of gentrification and whine that the racist whites are pricing them out of their own neighborhoods.


    Tell me that he has at least refrained from...
     
    Read what I wrote. He's happy has a clam hunting and fishing on the land he bought. Does he sound like someone who would start an "arts commitee" or "invite... rappers"?

    Unlike you, the locals aren't resentful, but are very grateful that he chose to make his home there, because they had an enormous difficulty recruiting a physician with his specialty (thoracic surgeon) once their old one retired (they couldn't even find a FMG willing to practice there). And it's an area where obesity and heart disease are through the roof. And the hospital is the largest employer in town. Almost all their docs are ancient in age and they are continually struggling to replace the retired (or dead) ones.

  204. @kicktheroos
    @gregor

    You can give me all the reasoning you can i still think they are grossly overpaid , for just sitting around lifting weights spending time at the grocery store getting beef for their bbq's siiting at starbucks because doing nothing at the firestation I guess can get boring ,cops and firefighters have bankrupted cities in ca. High paying Firfighter jobs are a kind of subsidy for the oldest settlers of this country, and asian immigrants are footing the bill . Train mexican americans for these jobs you will get the same quality of work for one hundredth of what the low IQ high school jocks will give you.Let me say it again Firefifhters are grossly overpaid for what is very safe work some of the safest in USA.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @J.Ross

    Guy I know has a son who’s a fireman in Columbus, Ohio. He works 9 24s a month and makes a base of \$150k. On his days off, he sometimes works at other departments that are short on staff.

  205. anonymous[429] • Disclaimer says:

    Sailer must be one of the more prolific writers here on Unz. The only other writer as prolific seems to be Anglin, a Johnny come lately here. But, at least Johnny can be humorous and authors more substantial essays.

    All Sailer seems to do, in most cases I have noted anyway, is write a few paragraphs on some inane topic (this one certainly qualifies as one), and expects his readers to expand on it with their commentary. This method of trying to remain relevant is rather pathetic.

    I understand that he is still quite popular with the WNs though, as the engagement in the comment section indicates (in stark contrast to say, Barett). Is it pity, in remembrance of the man, now long past his prime?

    • Troll: Curle
  206. @Twinkie
    @middle-aged vet


    I have probably wasted a lot of time arguing in good faith with internet accounts who had no intention of arguing in good faith with me.
     
    Good faith? Really? Is calling someone autistic instead of engaging the substance of the arguments a good faith way of discourse?

    Try presenting a coherent, well-formulated argument and save the ad hominem. You’ll find me a far more congenial discussant.

    You want to know the real secret of my success in real life? I don’t suffer fools gladly and only associate with forthright people.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @middle-aged vet

    Did not call you autistic, Twinkie, I described the way you argued on this thread. (that is why I used the term ‘frame of mind’) – it is a rhetorical thing, not an insult.

    Successful people in life often go through a period where they tolerate people who are willing to criticize them effectively and (to the outsider) in what seems a cruel way.
    Skull and Bones, Parrish Island, American Idol, Gordon Ramsay cooking shows, for men.
    There are examples for women, I guess, but I don’t really know what they are.
    Suck it up if you want to be better.

    That being said, if you want to settle for triumphantly insulting me, go ahead. You would not be the first who missed a really good opportunity to learn something from a confrontational conversation.

    I have my faults, but if you seriously think I am a fool, that is a category error that you should not be proud of making. Finally, congrats on your good choices in life, and thanks for answering that part of my question.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @middle-aged vet


    You would not be the first who missed a really good opportunity to learn something from a confrontational conversation.
     
    Learn what? All you have contributed in this thread is calling me autistic ("a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can’t even discuss things in a non-autistic way") and questioning my real world credentials ("manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done").

    You contributed exactly ZERO substantive material on this thread.


    I have my faults, but if you seriously think I am a fool
     
    What I learned from you here is that you are a troll in this case.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

  207. @Anon
    @Anonymous

    A bunch of Just-So speculation and gobbledygook. "Evolutionary Psychology" is catnip to armchair theorizers.

    Replies: @Curle

    A good definition of 1) sociology; 2) critical theory and its derivatives; and 3) everything that starts with the assumption that equality is an default truth.

  208. Dube says:

    When I was a small boy, I was given to understand that my father, lying in bed, wasn’t well and should not be disturbed. He did recover, but it wasn’t until years later that I saw the article clipped from a Detroit paper that gave his name and those of about six other firefighters who’d succumbed from inhalation one by one while trying to rescue their comrades from an enclosed space.

    Decades later, while visiting the station at Second and Burroughs – you Detroiters know the old GM and Fisher Building area – I spoke with the Captain and two firefighters, and asked to take a picture of them. The three stood up without hesitation and locked their arms around each others’ shoulders for the pose.

    I was a privileged kid for being able to watch the Thanksgiving Day parade from the second floor of that station. No interruptions at that location. That was not the case at Dad’s other postings; he retired as Chief of the busiest battalion in the city, and his men proudly sent a crying towel to the runner-up battalion.

    I once asked about fraternal relations with the police, and got a frank reply. Several policemen dragged someone into the engine house and began to work him over physically, which outraged my father, who ordered them to “Get off this platform!” One of the officers took a look – I know what he saw – and said, “I think he means it.”

    As a Lieutenant in his first command, he used my relinquished drawing table – he’d done some training as a draftsman – to line and letter all the streets in his area, to ink them in his mental map. He’d been orphaned as a kid, didn’t finish school, was saved along with his brothers by the Navy, and took to a life of disciplined action. He’d be astonished by today’s pay and benefits.

    He’d started as Chief’s driver, a good place to learn the overview. After his retirement he and I dropped in on his old commander, whom he still called, “Chief,” while the old Irishman Chief still called my father by his first name – “Wasn’t it fun, Andy? Wasn’t it fun?” Dad smiled, there was an exchange in the eyes that they shared. Aries and Leo, would you believe it.

    A house burned down across the street from my high school. Dad was in charge, pointing to this and that, and the men were finishing the operation in the wisps of smoke and char. It was cold, and he was working in just a shirt. I called, “Dad, put your coat on!” God save the silly and the stupid. He said nothing of course, and continued with the action, though I did receive a steady look through the eyes of Mars. It was not the sweet twinkle from around the house. After a while I got tired of standing and went home, because you see, I was studying to become better than my father. And now I’d go back to that lot just to stand there again.

    I’ve listened to the recorded shouts and silence from the firefighters in the Twin Towers. I take the matter personally.

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @Dube

    "I'd go back to that lot to just stand there again"... So do it. I wish my kids would remember me that way.

  209. @kicktheroos
    @gregor

    You can give me all the reasoning you can i still think they are grossly overpaid , for just sitting around lifting weights spending time at the grocery store getting beef for their bbq's siiting at starbucks because doing nothing at the firestation I guess can get boring ,cops and firefighters have bankrupted cities in ca. High paying Firfighter jobs are a kind of subsidy for the oldest settlers of this country, and asian immigrants are footing the bill . Train mexican americans for these jobs you will get the same quality of work for one hundredth of what the low IQ high school jocks will give you.Let me say it again Firefifhters are grossly overpaid for what is very safe work some of the safest in USA.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @J.Ross

    AFTER UVALDE you want to hand fire over to the sleepy goblins?

  210. Anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @megabar


    I’ve accepted that my career — software engineering — is intrinsically boring and unimpressive to everyone other than other software engineers, and especially so to women,
     
    There are definitely some careers that make a man attractive. Most careers are neutral. And then there are some that create negative status - even if the income is good. Try telling a woman you are a dentist.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Woody Allen parodied this in The Front (1976)

  211. Anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @kicktheroos
    @anonymous

    biggest scam on taxpayers are the firefighters , these guys should be sent to fight forest fires instead of sitting cozy at their stations doing BBQ,s or drinking coffee at starbucks or being sent out to do minor paramedic work anything but fighting real fires, the real firefighters are inmates getting paid 2 bucks per hour, these high paying jobs are reserved for low IQ legacy people who are of a large european island stock, all whites are in on the scam from the media who lionise these otherwise losers to white voters.

    Replies: @gregor, @J.Ross, @Anonymous

    The decline of smoking means there are a lot less fires now than pre-1990s. Being a fireman in the old days was a much more hectic and stressful job than it is today.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Anonymous

    May be domestic fires. But the number of wildfires has remained about same while the acreage per fire has increased. i.e., the fires are becoming more intense and deadly.


    https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-04/wildfires_figure1_2021.png


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildfire#/media/File:Wildfire_acres_burned_in_the_United_States,_OWID.svg

  212. @Anonymous
    @kicktheroos

    The decline of smoking means there are a lot less fires now than pre-1990s. Being a fireman in the old days was a much more hectic and stressful job than it is today.

    Replies: @epebble

    May be domestic fires. But the number of wildfires has remained about same while the acreage per fire has increased. i.e., the fires are becoming more intense and deadly.

  213. @Mike Tre
    @Twinkie

    "You want to know the real secret of my success in real life? ...only associate with forthright people. "

    Well... the comment section here being the exception. :)

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Well… the comment section here being the exception. 🙂

    Virtual associations don’t count!

  214. @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    Did not call you autistic, Twinkie, I described the way you argued on this thread. (that is why I used the term 'frame of mind') - it is a rhetorical thing, not an insult.

    Successful people in life often go through a period where they tolerate people who are willing to criticize them effectively and (to the outsider) in what seems a cruel way.
    Skull and Bones, Parrish Island, American Idol, Gordon Ramsay cooking shows, for men.
    There are examples for women, I guess, but I don't really know what they are.
    Suck it up if you want to be better.

    That being said, if you want to settle for triumphantly insulting me, go ahead. You would not be the first who missed a really good opportunity to learn something from a confrontational conversation.

    I have my faults, but if you seriously think I am a fool, that is a category error that you should not be proud of making. Finally, congrats on your good choices in life, and thanks for answering that part of my question.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    You would not be the first who missed a really good opportunity to learn something from a confrontational conversation.

    Learn what? All you have contributed in this thread is calling me autistic (“a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can’t even discuss things in a non-autistic way”) and questioning my real world credentials (“manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done”).

    You contributed exactly ZERO substantive material on this thread.

    I have my faults, but if you seriously think I am a fool

    What I learned from you here is that you are a troll in this case.

    • Replies: @middle-aged vet
    @Twinkie

    The point is, you did not notice you were talking to someone who is at least as intelligent as you, (if not more), and you reflexively, like a college sophomore, went into "I AM ANGRY AT YOU AND HERE ARE MY INSULTS" mode.

    You failed the test, but let not your heart be troubled, there will be other tests.

    Substantive question: "What is the word for the ability to figure such things out?"

    You missed it when, sadly, you eagerly exclaimed that I had "contributed nothing."

    Well, keep trying. You were intelligent enough for me to be interested in you, which is more of a compliment than you are, now, apparently capable of understanding.

  215. @Anon
    @Twinkie

    I bet he's appreciated so much by the rabble he is pricing out of the area.

    Tell me that he has at least refrained from buying local politicians, or convincing allied carpetbaggers from running for local office. Tell me he has at least refrained from banging the drum to start a needle-sharing program. Tell me he has at least refrained from starting an "arts committee" to invite head-banging acts and rappers to give regular ear-splitting concerts in the town square. Tell me that he isn't going around saying "this place is so *whitebread*, it needs change and a new beginning." In short, at least tell me your friend isn't a Jew.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    In short, at least tell me your friend isn’t a Jew.

    He is a white Southerner of mixed English, German, and Scots-Irish heritage and hails from Appalachia. Happy?

    The rest of your griping (“I bet he’s appreciated so much by the rabble he is pricing out of the area”) reminds me of the way blacks endlessly complain about whites:

    1. When whites DON’T move to the black neighborhoods, blacks cry of segregation and whine that racist whites won’t live with them.

    2. When whites DO move to the black neighborhoods, blacks cry of gentrification and whine that the racist whites are pricing them out of their own neighborhoods.

    Tell me that he has at least refrained from…

    Read what I wrote. He’s happy has a clam hunting and fishing on the land he bought. Does he sound like someone who would start an “arts commitee” or “invite… rappers”?

    Unlike you, the locals aren’t resentful, but are very grateful that he chose to make his home there, because they had an enormous difficulty recruiting a physician with his specialty (thoracic surgeon) once their old one retired (they couldn’t even find a FMG willing to practice there). And it’s an area where obesity and heart disease are through the roof. And the hospital is the largest employer in town. Almost all their docs are ancient in age and they are continually struggling to replace the retired (or dead) ones.

  216. @Twinkie
    @middle-aged vet


    You would not be the first who missed a really good opportunity to learn something from a confrontational conversation.
     
    Learn what? All you have contributed in this thread is calling me autistic ("a guy with an obvious autism frame of mind, who can’t even discuss things in a non-autistic way") and questioning my real world credentials ("manage to do so well in the world as you claim to have done").

    You contributed exactly ZERO substantive material on this thread.


    I have my faults, but if you seriously think I am a fool
     
    What I learned from you here is that you are a troll in this case.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

    The point is, you did not notice you were talking to someone who is at least as intelligent as you, (if not more), and you reflexively, like a college sophomore, went into “I AM ANGRY AT YOU AND HERE ARE MY INSULTS” mode.

    You failed the test, but let not your heart be troubled, there will be other tests.

    Substantive question: “What is the word for the ability to figure such things out?”

    You missed it when, sadly, you eagerly exclaimed that I had “contributed nothing.”

    Well, keep trying. You were intelligent enough for me to be interested in you, which is more of a compliment than you are, now, apparently capable of understanding.

    • Troll: Twinkie
  217. @Muggles
    @Twinkie


    Do you know how long thoracic, cardiac, or neurosurgeries take? Read what I wrote again – I wrote “Surgery hours are long and brutal,” not that their overall hours are.
     
    I hate to nitpick, but I will.

    When a generic complaint is made about "long and brutal hours" it usually refers to being "on call" in some respect. Not doing something that may take a few hours. Most routine operations don't take that long. I've had a few myself and was surprised at how quickly they did it.

    Also, in the kinds of surgery you cite they are normally done in teams, often with more than one surgeon doing the work. And specialized nurses, a whole team. And usually they can take breaks if they are working intensely for too long.

    Plenty of engineering jobs (repairs, construction, fabrication) take "hours" to complete, and not in clean air conditioned surgery suites. Attorneys, IT techs and accountants work very long hours, though unlike surgeons lives are not usually on the line.

    My comments re: "mechanics" (which is largely accurate) and "smarts" are drawn from my discussions with physicians and reading various accounts by other doctors and nurses.

    Neurologists and radiologists are usually considered "smarter" in that they have more medical training. Other highly specialized diagnosticians and treatment specialists as well.

    The somewhat lower regard for surgeons was surprising to me. Though the cutters and stitchers probably do regard themselves as the fighter pilots of medicine.

    Being on a hospital board (highly political and defensive bureaucracy) gives you one view. Talking to malpractice attorneys with MDs might provide another.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @YetAnotherAnon

    “Attorneys, IT techs and accountants work very long hours, though unlike surgeons lives are not usually on the line.”

    I’ve worked long hours in IT, but there’s a natural cut-off point after 11 or 12 hours (less hours as one ages) beyond which, if you continue writing code, you’ll probably end up redoing what you’ve written the following day. So you stop and go get food and some sleep. Not many people can operate at full throttle for 14 or 15 hours straight.

    When a friend’s child had a major brain operation, it lasted something like 18 hours and took two teams of surgeons (and presumably anaesthetists and nurses too) – I’m not sure if anyone was there for the whole thing except the patient. Sounded like harder work than writing code.

  218. Rob says:

    If you you i were looking at being a fireman, i might take another look.

    Fires are a lot rarer than they used to be. How many people smoke these days? How many people under 40? Not a lot. Cigarettes caused most house fires. Smokers are a dyou ying breed. Everyone vapes. I suppose you could set a fire with weed, but joints don’t burn like cigarettes

    Maybe as the country slacks off and third worldifies, fires will get more common? More poor people means people will have the heat/power cut and set fires that get out of hand?

    Don’t hear much about warehouse or plant fires much anymore. Are they rare? Just don’t make the news?

    I’m thinking a lot of firemen jobs are going to be on the chopping block.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Rob

    "Don’t hear much about warehouse or plant fires much anymore. Are they rare?"

    I thought there had been a whole spate of fires in food-related plants.

    https://www.city-journal.org/whats-behind-rash-of-fires-at-us-food-processing-facilities


    First, there’s the baseline problem: a list of nearly 100 incidents disrupting food supplies certainly seems like a worrisome trend. But what’s the context? More than 2 million farms operate in this country, and about 35,000 food and beverage processing centers. The NFPA doesn’t specifically track fires at food-processing plants. But it does report that roughly 5,000 fires occur every year at all types of manufacturing and processing facilities combined—nearly 15 per day. In addition, the group says, in 2019, “more than 2,000 fires occurred in agricultural, grain and livestock, and refrigerated storage facilities.” At this rate, perhaps we should be surprised there aren’t more incidents included on the lists of supposedly suspicious events.

    Counterintuitive as it might seem, some of America’s worst industrial accidents have involved food production. For example, a 2008 dust explosion at a Georgia sugar refinery killed 13 workers and injured dozens more. Several of the fires circulating on lists of supposedly suspicious incidents fall under this heading: a Maine potato-processing plant burned down after a fire started in a deep-fryer; a broken conveyor belt at a Memphis Kellogg’s facility “sparked a blaze in a rice drying machine“; “grease and animal byproducts” were the culprit in a 2021 fire at an Alabama animal-feed factory.

     

    Replies: @Rob

  219. @Rob
    If you you i were looking at being a fireman, i might take another look.

    Fires are a lot rarer than they used to be. How many people smoke these days? How many people under 40? Not a lot. Cigarettes caused most house fires. Smokers are a dyou ying breed. Everyone vapes. I suppose you could set a fire with weed, but joints don’t burn like cigarettes

    Maybe as the country slacks off and third worldifies, fires will get more common? More poor people means people will have the heat/power cut and set fires that get out of hand?

    Don’t hear much about warehouse or plant fires much anymore. Are they rare? Just don’t make the news?

    I’m thinking a lot of firemen jobs are going to be on the chopping block.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    “Don’t hear much about warehouse or plant fires much anymore. Are they rare?”

    I thought there had been a whole spate of fires in food-related plants.

    https://www.city-journal.org/whats-behind-rash-of-fires-at-us-food-processing-facilities

    First, there’s the baseline problem: a list of nearly 100 incidents disrupting food supplies certainly seems like a worrisome trend. But what’s the context? More than 2 million farms operate in this country, and about 35,000 food and beverage processing centers. The NFPA doesn’t specifically track fires at food-processing plants. But it does report that roughly 5,000 fires occur every year at all types of manufacturing and processing facilities combined—nearly 15 per day. In addition, the group says, in 2019, “more than 2,000 fires occurred in agricultural, grain and livestock, and refrigerated storage facilities.” At this rate, perhaps we should be surprised there aren’t more incidents included on the lists of supposedly suspicious events.

    Counterintuitive as it might seem, some of America’s worst industrial accidents have involved food production. For example, a 2008 dust explosion at a Georgia sugar refinery killed 13 workers and injured dozens more. Several of the fires circulating on lists of supposedly suspicious incidents fall under this heading: a Maine potato-processing plant burned down after a fire started in a deep-fryer; a broken conveyor belt at a Memphis Kellogg’s facility “sparked a blaze in a rice drying machine“; “grease and animal byproducts” were the culprit in a 2021 fire at an Alabama animal-feed factory.

    • Replies: @Rob
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Just doesn’t make the news then. Man, when MSM decided to cover nothing but, “OMG, Becky! Can you believe what Trump said today?” they lost their ability to cover anything but Presidential politics and hurricanes. Four and half years is a long time in the news, right? How long do producers stay at the job? Has everyone from BT (Before Trump) moved on to other jobs?

    For four years, every guest talked about Trump. There are a ton of liberal talking heads who are experts in nothing but Trump. Remember how people talked about how media was going to crater when people weren’t hate (or disappointment)-reading about President Trump? Pretty sure lots of subscription media numbers are down maybe 30-50% off of Trump-era highs. You know how the media tries to keep those buyers? They cover Trump all the time. Not directly, but January 6th is about Trump.

    Trump is more a boogieman for the left than a messiah for the right. He was worse than nothing in a ton of ways. Immigration restriction was a winning issue with D, R, and I before Trump got involved. Trying a coup hurts populists with the rest of the country. Did the Democrats cheat? I’ll put this at a solid maybe. Would they have cheated if they needed to? Watching the coverage of Trump, do you think they would not have cheated to get Trump out? Probably. OTOH, Trump was worthless for his voters, so what harm did he really do to progs and their causes?

    I know they’re extra mad at Trump because his judges overturned Roe (pretty pissed ‘bout that myself) but even then, RBG was old when Obama had a D Senate. She should have retired, but she wanted the first female President to appoint her replacement. Oops

    What I don’t get? Why not retire then? She a prog justice. Every other prog justice will vote the same way she did. The cons might have intellectual interests and personal quirks in judicial philosophy, but the progs are all just prog hive-mind.

  220. Rob says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    @Rob

    "Don’t hear much about warehouse or plant fires much anymore. Are they rare?"

    I thought there had been a whole spate of fires in food-related plants.

    https://www.city-journal.org/whats-behind-rash-of-fires-at-us-food-processing-facilities


    First, there’s the baseline problem: a list of nearly 100 incidents disrupting food supplies certainly seems like a worrisome trend. But what’s the context? More than 2 million farms operate in this country, and about 35,000 food and beverage processing centers. The NFPA doesn’t specifically track fires at food-processing plants. But it does report that roughly 5,000 fires occur every year at all types of manufacturing and processing facilities combined—nearly 15 per day. In addition, the group says, in 2019, “more than 2,000 fires occurred in agricultural, grain and livestock, and refrigerated storage facilities.” At this rate, perhaps we should be surprised there aren’t more incidents included on the lists of supposedly suspicious events.

    Counterintuitive as it might seem, some of America’s worst industrial accidents have involved food production. For example, a 2008 dust explosion at a Georgia sugar refinery killed 13 workers and injured dozens more. Several of the fires circulating on lists of supposedly suspicious incidents fall under this heading: a Maine potato-processing plant burned down after a fire started in a deep-fryer; a broken conveyor belt at a Memphis Kellogg’s facility “sparked a blaze in a rice drying machine“; “grease and animal byproducts” were the culprit in a 2021 fire at an Alabama animal-feed factory.

     

    Replies: @Rob

    Just doesn’t make the news then. Man, when MSM decided to cover nothing but, “OMG, Becky! Can you believe what Trump said today?” they lost their ability to cover anything but Presidential politics and hurricanes. Four and half years is a long time in the news, right? How long do producers stay at the job? Has everyone from BT (Before Trump) moved on to other jobs?

    For four years, every guest talked about Trump. There are a ton of liberal talking heads who are experts in nothing but Trump. Remember how people talked about how media was going to crater when people weren’t hate (or disappointment)-reading about President Trump? Pretty sure lots of subscription media numbers are down maybe 30-50% off of Trump-era highs. You know how the media tries to keep those buyers? They cover Trump all the time. Not directly, but January 6th is about Trump.

    Trump is more a boogieman for the left than a messiah for the right. He was worse than nothing in a ton of ways. Immigration restriction was a winning issue with D, R, and I before Trump got involved. Trying a coup hurts populists with the rest of the country. Did the Democrats cheat? I’ll put this at a solid maybe. Would they have cheated if they needed to? Watching the coverage of Trump, do you think they would not have cheated to get Trump out? Probably. OTOH, Trump was worthless for his voters, so what harm did he really do to progs and their causes?

    I know they’re extra mad at Trump because his judges overturned Roe (pretty pissed ‘bout that myself) but even then, RBG was old when Obama had a D Senate. She should have retired, but she wanted the first female President to appoint her replacement. Oops

    What I don’t get? Why not retire then? She a prog justice. Every other prog justice will vote the same way she did. The cons might have intellectual interests and personal quirks in judicial philosophy, but the progs are all just prog hive-mind.

  221. @Dube
    When I was a small boy, I was given to understand that my father, lying in bed, wasn't well and should not be disturbed. He did recover, but it wasn't until years later that I saw the article clipped from a Detroit paper that gave his name and those of about six other firefighters who'd succumbed from inhalation one by one while trying to rescue their comrades from an enclosed space.

    Decades later, while visiting the station at Second and Burroughs - you Detroiters know the old GM and Fisher Building area - I spoke with the Captain and two firefighters, and asked to take a picture of them. The three stood up without hesitation and locked their arms around each others' shoulders for the pose.

    I was a privileged kid for being able to watch the Thanksgiving Day parade from the second floor of that station. No interruptions at that location. That was not the case at Dad's other postings; he retired as Chief of the busiest battalion in the city, and his men proudly sent a crying towel to the runner-up battalion.

    I once asked about fraternal relations with the police, and got a frank reply. Several policemen dragged someone into the engine house and began to work him over physically, which outraged my father, who ordered them to "Get off this platform!" One of the officers took a look - I know what he saw - and said, "I think he means it."

    As a Lieutenant in his first command, he used my relinquished drawing table - he'd done some training as a draftsman - to line and letter all the streets in his area, to ink them in his mental map. He'd been orphaned as a kid, didn't finish school, was saved along with his brothers by the Navy, and took to a life of disciplined action. He'd be astonished by today's pay and benefits.

    He'd started as Chief's driver, a good place to learn the overview. After his retirement he and I dropped in on his old commander, whom he still called, "Chief," while the old Irishman Chief still called my father by his first name - "Wasn't it fun, Andy? Wasn't it fun?" Dad smiled, there was an exchange in the eyes that they shared. Aries and Leo, would you believe it.

    A house burned down across the street from my high school. Dad was in charge, pointing to this and that, and the men were finishing the operation in the wisps of smoke and char. It was cold, and he was working in just a shirt. I called, "Dad, put your coat on!" God save the silly and the stupid. He said nothing of course, and continued with the action, though I did receive a steady look through the eyes of Mars. It was not the sweet twinkle from around the house. After a while I got tired of standing and went home, because you see, I was studying to become better than my father. And now I'd go back to that lot just to stand there again.

    I've listened to the recorded shouts and silence from the firefighters in the Twin Towers. I take the matter personally.

    Replies: @middle-aged vet

    “I’d go back to that lot to just stand there again”… So do it. I wish my kids would remember me that way.

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