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I’ve been interested in the topic of lesbian eugenics for most of the century, although judging from Google, the concept of “lesbian eugenics” has occurred to barely anybody else. I think the usual logic is:

– Lesbians are Good.

– Eugenics is Bad.

– Therefore, logically, the phrase “lesbian eugenics” Does Not Compute.

Beep.

In reality, of course, the innate inability of two women to make a baby means that a man will be drafted based on his perceived genes.

But perception isn’t always reality. From the Washington Post:

This couple says everything they were told about their sperm donor was a lie

By Yanan Wang April 15 at 5:04 AM

Eight years ago, Angela Collins and Elizabeth Hanson thought they had found the one — the man whose sperm would help them have their first child.

Screenshot 2016-04-16 00.29.30The couple from Port Hope, Ontario, was immediately struck by a sperm donor profile on the website of Xytex Corporation, a global sperm bank based in August [sic], Ga. Donor #9623, Collins told the Toronto Star, was the “male version of my partner.”

He had blue eyes, was well-educated and musically gifted, just like Hanson.

According to his profile, Donor #9623 boasted an IQ of 160. He held bachelor’s and master’s degrees in neuroscience, and was in the midst of pursuing a PhD. He had practically no health problems to speak of, but for the fact that his father was colorblind.

What more could they ask? With that, Donor #9623 became the biological father of Collins and Hanson’s baby. It was years later, in 2014, that Collins received a Facebook message from a woman in the United States who said she had used the same donor, the Star reported.

Donor #9623, the woman said, was not as he appeared.

Some Internet research revealed to Collins that her baby’s father was in reality a man, James Aggeles, who suffered from schizophrenia, narcissistic personality disorder and other mental illnesses.

He did not have any university degrees. In 2005, he was charged with residential burglary.

The information “made my heart sink like a lead ball into my stomach,” Collins told the Star.

Collins, Hanson and two other Canadian families filed lawsuits against Xytex in the Ontario Superior Court on Wednesday, alleging that the company misled them about the health of their sperm donor. …

According to the suit, he admitted in an interview that he lied about his education and medical history, neither of which he was allegedly asked to verify before he started donating sperm in 2000. He was never asked about his criminal history, he told lawyers. …

Xytex told the Star that the donor’s sperm has been used to conceive 36 children in Canada, the United States and Britain.

[White woman sues sperm bank after she mistakenly gets black donor’s sperm]

The families who filed suit claim that the sperm bank misrepresented the degree to which they were certain about the man’s qualifications. They say they were told that he was one of their most popular donors, and that less than 5 percent of applicants actually become Xytex sperm donors. Xytex told them applicants go through an extensive evaluation and interview process so that the company can ascertain their personality, behavior and health, the families said.

Xytex allegedly told them that they would ultimately know more about their sperm donor than they could ever know about a potential partner that they were likely to meet in everyday life.

Aggeles’s account of how he became a donor, detailed in the lawsuit, diverges from this promise.

He told the families’ lawyers that Mary Hartley, a donor manager at Xytex, encouraged him to report a higher IQ. After filling in his questionnaire with false information, Aggeles said, according to the suit, he completed a 10-minute physical examination during which the physician asked about neither his physical nor his mental health history.

Aggeles said he was approved to be a sperm donor two weeks later and began donating sperm immediately. In 2014, 14 years after he became a Xytex donor, he said the company asked him for proof of his educational qualifications. He allegedly provided fake graduation certificates that were readily accepted.

Collins and Hanson have attempted to seek legal recourse before, but their previous lawsuit was dismissed in a Fulton County, Ga., court in October. The Fulton County Superior Court judge who made the ruling, Robert McBurney, said theirs seemed to be a “wrongful birth” claim, which is not recognized by Georgia law.

That’s probably not a conversation you want to have with your kid.

By my very rough calculation, to within an order of magnitude, about a million Americans were conceived via donor sperm, so the seemingly comic question of quality control in the sperm bank industry is actually important. (But it’s still pretty funny.)

 
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  1. So lesbians are even dumber than we supposed–and dangerous to themselves and others.

    Funny, it was gay men’s mental instability that most people worried about throughout history and today, what with the high propensity for impulsive behavior and mob violence and sociopathy (e.g. Ernest Rohm, the Stonewall Riots after Judy Garland died, the AIDS partner trading).

    But lesbians were viewed as benignly mentally disabled and rather laughable. They’d go off in the woods all man-hating and either disappear on some tiny commune or come back for their meds and get committed.

    But now we’re having major problems where lesbians, for political reasons, are having children, and their mental deficiencies are going to be visited on innocent children—such as their inability to tell obvious scams from a mile away, or their inability to choose stable genetic fathers for their children. This does not bode well.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @whorefinder

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you'd be sympathetic.

    I'm not saying militant lesbians don't create huge problems with feminism--the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I'm seriously considering never marrying. But this ain't that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we're hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    Replies: @Thea, @Alice, @ScarletNumber, @Big Bill, @whorefinder, @Olorin

    , @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    @whorefinder

    My experience with lesbians as tenants and neighbors (in the past I had a bunch):


    Lesbian couples seem to do nothing but fight with each other.. constantly. As a landlord it seemed every time a lesbian couple moved in, one would move out within months, and / or I would get a request to change the locks.

    The relationship meltdowns were epic at times, complete with me getting dragged into one lesbian trying to regain access to the apartment to retrieve her stuff, screaming matches, crying, and other drama.

    The conventional wisdom is that lesbian couples are stable while gay male couples are not. Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.

    IMHO, lesbian divorce will be a sight to behold once cases start working their respective ways through the court systems. Family court should be interesting to watch as well. Who will the court favor for custody when both are women?

    Another thing I have noticed (granted, I am not looking at a large sample size here) is that when the lesbian couples go the IVF route, they tend to favor having boys over girls. I would be curious to see what the stats are on a national scale.

    I pity any boy growing up in such a household though.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104, @AnotherDad, @Brutusale

  2. Well, I guess this is one way to get the birth rate up. It just makes me wonder how what percentage of women are choosing men with “Aryan” features, such as blue eyes.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

  3. They would have been better off using a donor they knew. A former boss of my girlfriend is gay, and he and his partner have both donated sperm to (different) lesbian friends. I think the former boss waved his parental rights, but he still has contact with his biological child and is treated as an uncle or something.

    • Replies: @27 year old
    @Dave Pinsen

    Modern Family. What could possibly go wrong....

    Replies: @RaceRealist88

    , @TheJester
    @Dave Pinsen

    No issues here ... moral, eugenic, social, or otherwise. Right? If we can believe the homosexual community, they are as they are because of immutable genes over which they have no control. That is precisely why society has to accept them on moral, social, and legal grounds. No choices here, in spite of the shrieking from the feminist community that gender is the result of transient personal choice and, therefore, "we are all gender fluid".

    We know that homosexuality is genetic because we read about it in the MSM, although they have not yet found that gene (perhaps this gene is as mysterious and as real "White privilege").

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/06/11/the_science_of_sexual_orientation_the_latest_on_genes_chromosomes_and_environmental.html

    So, there is an issue. The lesbian couples in the story are perhaps predisposing their offspring to someday discover they are also gay or lesbian as the result of immutable genes. If gamete sharing among homosexuals is common, then it would appear that the homosexual community is reproducing itself in its own image in plain sight. If they have a right to their own unique cultures, social rules, and traditions, perhaps (like our new-found immigrant communities) they should also have a right to their own segregated communities -- "safe spaces" -- so that they and their offspring can live in peace with people like themselves in their own genetically predisposed communities.

    , @Anonymous
    @Dave Pinsen


    They would have been better off using a donor they knew. A former boss of my girlfriend is gay, and he and his partner have both donated sperm to (different) lesbian friends. I think the former boss waved his parental rights, but he still has contact with his biological child and is treated as an uncle or something.
     
    I do background investigations for the USG in security clearance investigations. A good number of people, who look good on paper and in person, have serious mental or emotional issues or serious skeletons in their closet that they will not tell their best friends about. Or if they do tell close confidants about seeing a shrink they'll say they're seeing someone for depression/anxiety, which they also have, and which there's not much stigma involving.

    Past behavior is indicative of future behavior and the nature and character of someone.

    Smarter, more educated people are more skillful at hiding their past fucked up behavior or mental issues. With some skillful questioning and bluffing as to why a Subject failed a poly, I've been able to elicit some pretty dark past behavior (e.g., sexual deviancy w/o law enforcement involvement) that not even the Subject's wife of 30 years knows about. I will then interview friends of 30 years and none will have knowledge of these skeletons. And I know when someone's not being truthful.

    Given what I know, no way would I trust what I see on paper or know through normal daily interactions. Especially when picking the DNA of my progeny.

    Replies: @Anon

  4. @duderino
    Well, I guess this is one way to get the birth rate up. It just makes me wonder how what percentage of women are choosing men with "Aryan" features, such as blue eyes.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    @Steve Sailer

    British newspapers have of course beaten everyone else to the story.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-want-viking-baby-single-5037149

    "The Danes are superior race and I want my child to be a part of that race."

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Richard S
    @Steve Sailer

    So when I see milk, cheese and butter listed as major chunks of Danish GDP I should be slightly more wary with the stats?

    , @Richard S
    @Steve Sailer

    Damn! I should have said "It lends a new meaning to Gross Domestic Product"

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter
     
    And sometime in the 21st century, some country will go to war with the Danes for child support. Justifiably, I might add, though the "donors" themselves are usually dupes.

    Denmark's leading role in both pioneering "sex changes" and "sperm donation" shows that even the most level-headed of peoples have their dark sides.

    Applying ethics to an inherently unethical business is always a hopeless quest. Honoe among thieves-- yeah, right.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anon7
    @Steve Sailer

    (My Dad was a Dane...) Yes, we're doing it again, but Trump-style.

    From 800-1000 or so, my Danish ancestors raided the British isles, raping for free, with just what you can get from pillaging monasteries and churches to support their sailing lifestyle.

    But now, the Danes are making British women PAY FOR IT.

    Replies: @Anon7, @Expletive Deleted

    , @TheJester
    @Steve Sailer

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their "blond hair and blue eyes"?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don't think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ...." In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn't include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn't resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels ... and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I'm Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous Nephew, @PV van der Byl, @BB753, @Jefferson, @Jefferson

    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    PBS's Independent Lens had a documentary on a one time very handsome but now clearly mentally unstable semi homeless man who lives in a dilapidated RV along Venice Beach CA and was the sperm donor father of many offspring.


    http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/donor-unknown/


    JoEllen Marsh, 20, wants to know who her biological father is. All she knows of him is the label the California Cryobank gave him in the 1980s: Donor 150.
    JoEllen has always known her family wasn't like other families. She grew up in Pennsylvania with two mothers, and a burning curiosity to know more about her anonymous donor father. When JoEllen discovers a website that connects donor‐conceived children, she manages to track down a half‐sister in New York. The New York Times picks up the story, and, over time, 12 more half‐siblings emerge across the United States.

    The article also falls into the hands of Jeffrey Harrison, living alone with four dogs and a pigeon in a broken‐down RV in a Venice Beach parking lot. In the 1980s, Jeffrey supplemented his meager income by becoming a regular sperm donor at California Cryobank. He was given an identifying number: 150. In a surreal moment, he recognizes himself as the unnamed central character in the story told on the front page of the New York Times. In time, Jeffrey comes forward to identify himself as Donor 150.

    In this cascade of revelations seen in the film Donor Unknown, JoEllen corresponds with her newly discovered half-siblings, comparing what they have in common, and the ways in which they resemble one another. Nervous but curious, JoEllen wants to arrange to meet with Jeffrey, but some of her half-siblings are ambivalent. Danielle in New York is skeptical that she could have a meaningful relationship with Jeffrey. Rachelle, in Memphis, isn't sure she would want to meet him at all. Ryann and Roxanne, who live in California, have already visited him on their own.

    In the end, JoEllen finds Fletcher, her 19-year-old half brother, who agrees to accompany her to rendezvous with Roxanne in the parking lot in Los Angeles where Jeffrey lives. In the end, it is a very modern family reunion among practical strangers who happen to share DNA. The journey raises questions about what makes us who we are, what makes a family, and what the brave new world of fertility technology means for our assumptions about both.

    The Filmmaker
    Jerry Rothwell is a documentary filmmaker whose directing credits include the feature documentaries Heavy Load, winner of the Audience Award at the 2008 Britdoc Film Festival; and Deep Water, co-directed with Louise Osmond and winner of the Grierson Award and Best Documentary at the Rome Film Festival.
     

    Replies: @dc.sunsets

  5. @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

    British newspapers have of course beaten everyone else to the story.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-want-viking-baby-single-5037149

    “The Danes are superior race and I want my child to be a part of that race.”

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Jaakko Raipala


    “The Danes are superior race and I want my child to be a part of that race.”
     
    Not a ridiculous thought. The Scandinavians generally seem to have their stuff together ... other than the abject insanity of letting non-Scandinavians in to loot and screwup their countries. (A pretty darn big "other than".) Still far, far, far better than all these British women getting knocked up by their societies detritus, now even pumping out half-caste bastards.

    However, she's still a parasite on her nation. This intentional single-motherhood is pox on civilization.

    The premise of pretty much everything--our prosperity, self-government, freedom--depends on *men* going out and doing productive labor to provide for their families. (I realize lots of women have jobs, even "careers", some of them important like nursing or teaching. But the core work that actually creates the super-prosperous society we live in--farming, engineering, mining, energy extraction, refining, power production, building, IT--is done by men.) Our social welfare provision essentially works with the assumption that most people are taking care of themselves--most children provided for by dad+mom--and that we can tax productive men to smooth and socialize the provision of some services--education, medical care, etc.

    Single-momhood is just a broadside into this society's boat. It's creating children who won't be provided for and looked after by a productive father. 90% of the time, the mom won't be a net tax contributor, she, her kid will be in the net parasitic on the public tough, even if they aren't directly welfare cases. (And the other 10% are mostly cases of b.s. jobs which the government or its regulation or some quirk in the market have caused to exist and be well paid, not something materially productive.)

    Responsible men need to find a way to either *end* this system, or extract their labor from this system and let it crash and burn. Again ... "separate societies". I don't wish to support--don't wish my son to have to support--civilization destroying single momhood. And shouldn't be compelled to do it.

    Replies: @TheJester

  6. As usual, Mike Judge was ahead of the curve

  7. What was David Crosby busy?

  8. @Dave Pinsen
    They would have been better off using a donor they knew. A former boss of my girlfriend is gay, and he and his partner have both donated sperm to (different) lesbian friends. I think the former boss waved his parental rights, but he still has contact with his biological child and is treated as an uncle or something.

    Replies: @27 year old, @TheJester, @Anonymous

    Modern Family. What could possibly go wrong….

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
    @27 year old

    The biggest crock of propaganda I've ever seen. They're trying to make us believe that the everyday gay "family" is like those 2 gays on that show. Ha, yea right.

  9. “He began donating sperm immediately …” is a great line, sort of like, “We’ve accepted you into the program!” “Great!” he ejaculated.

    Every time I hear a story like this I feel bad for the kids; how does Mom explain to Buster that he isn’t the son she paid for. The one thing about having kids the normal way is that the man and woman involved are usually in a committed love relationship, or at the very least were in love at one time. It’s kind of hard to sacralize these procedures, especially when the kid grows up and finds out that Mom misread the catalog or wanted money because she couldn’t return the product.

    Speaking of Turks, this reminds me of my favorite donor story that I read in Parade about 40 years ago: This German couple wanted a child but they couldn’t conceive. Meanwhile, a Turkish family lived downstairs, and had eight kids. So, they hired Mustafa to service Gretchen on Saturday afternoons for about six months. No pregnancy. Finally, they sued. Well, it turned out that Mustafa was impotent ….. No, I don’t know what happened next.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @SPMoore8


    Meanwhile, a Turkish family lived downstairs, and had eight kids. So, they hired Mustafa to service Gretchen on Saturday afternoons...
     
    File under: Donor kebab.
    , @ikram
    @SPMoore8

    Gretchen couldn't tell mustafa was impotent until six months passed? The joke here is that Germans don't engage in regular sex?

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @SPMoore8

    Don't you mean sterile, not impotent? If the latter, I don't get it.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    , @AndrewR
    @SPMoore8

    That story would make an incredible film

  10. “Now, which donor most resembles us?” Of course the smartest, healthiest, and most talented Aryan, not the schizophrenic, narcissistic, crazy liar.

    I think they instinctually knew they were getting the right match.

    (Didn’t Steve once write about lesbians tending to meet one another at book stores?)

  11. @SPMoore8
    "He began donating sperm immediately ..." is a great line, sort of like, "We've accepted you into the program!" "Great!" he ejaculated.

    Every time I hear a story like this I feel bad for the kids; how does Mom explain to Buster that he isn't the son she paid for. The one thing about having kids the normal way is that the man and woman involved are usually in a committed love relationship, or at the very least were in love at one time. It's kind of hard to sacralize these procedures, especially when the kid grows up and finds out that Mom misread the catalog or wanted money because she couldn't return the product.

    Speaking of Turks, this reminds me of my favorite donor story that I read in Parade about 40 years ago: This German couple wanted a child but they couldn't conceive. Meanwhile, a Turkish family lived downstairs, and had eight kids. So, they hired Mustafa to service Gretchen on Saturday afternoons for about six months. No pregnancy. Finally, they sued. Well, it turned out that Mustafa was impotent ..... No, I don't know what happened next.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @ikram, @Harry Baldwin, @AndrewR

    Meanwhile, a Turkish family lived downstairs, and had eight kids. So, they hired Mustafa to service Gretchen on Saturday afternoons…

    File under: Donor kebab.

  12. @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

    So when I see milk, cheese and butter listed as major chunks of Danish GDP I should be slightly more wary with the stats?

  13. @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

    Damn! I should have said “It lends a new meaning to Gross Domestic Product

  14. @whorefinder
    So lesbians are even dumber than we supposed--and dangerous to themselves and others.

    Funny, it was gay men's mental instability that most people worried about throughout history and today, what with the high propensity for impulsive behavior and mob violence and sociopathy (e.g. Ernest Rohm, the Stonewall Riots after Judy Garland died, the AIDS partner trading).

    But lesbians were viewed as benignly mentally disabled and rather laughable. They'd go off in the woods all man-hating and either disappear on some tiny commune or come back for their meds and get committed.

    But now we're having major problems where lesbians, for political reasons, are having children, and their mental deficiencies are going to be visited on innocent children---such as their inability to tell obvious scams from a mile away, or their inability to choose stable genetic fathers for their children. This does not bode well.

    Replies: @SFG, @Hell_Is_Like_Newark

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you’d be sympathetic.

    I’m not saying militant lesbians don’t create huge problems with feminism–the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I’m seriously considering never marrying. But this ain’t that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we’re hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    • Agree: Pseudonymic Handle
    • Replies: @Thea
    @SFG

    No, most would say adopt.

    Sperm banks are icky. Also They have a real problem with few quality donors. Like this gentleman, some men have dozens or hundreds of children. What happens if they meet & unknowingly have children?

    Replies: @Paul Mendez, @Hepp, @Stan d Mute

    , @Alice
    @SFG

    No, I'm not sympathetic to families that use donors.

    Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you've done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don't murder or steal, don't sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.

    Mirabile dictu! You do these things prevent you from needing schizophrenic sperm donors, prevent you from aborting your own offspring when you are young and healthy enough to have babies, prevent you from shacking up with some idiot who rapes or murders your children while you go find a new honey, prevents you from wasting your money gambling, drinking, whoring, stops you from taking out nondoc loans for homes 7 times your earnings, etc. Etc. Etc.

    To this issue of lesbian eugenics: who except a) the most vain, narcissistic, stupid men who can't work out the possible inplications of random multiple daddyhood to their future emotional or financial well-being would donate aperm? Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis. But I'm sure that's profiling.

    Replies: @Bill, @Daniel H, @stillCARealist, @Wilkey, @Former Darfur

    , @ScarletNumber
    @SFG

    You are missing the point.

    , @Big Bill
    @SFG

    "Sympathetic"?

    Why on earth would anyone be sympathetic for the poor sperm choices women make?

    For aeons, women have gotten sperm donations from donors that are losers.

    They are pretty stupid about that.

    Any idiot who buys sperm-in-a-bag from a complete stranger deserves what they get.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Mr. Anon

    , @whorefinder
    @SFG


    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.
     
    They fell for a rather obvious scam ("this guy is a genius who's also musically talented and fits your partner's description! he's perfect") because they wanted children for political reasons ("prove us gays are great parents! and give us gays some more kids to molest!") while living in a household of two mentally unstable folk.

    This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we’re hearing about it because it hit lesbians.
     
    It's fairly obvious sperm banks just scams on rich but susceptible lesbians/feminists ("have your own perfect baby, no man required!"). You walk in and suddenly there's this raft of sperm from tall, intelligent, handsome, accomplished, multi-talented, rich, totally-not-mentally-diseased men of every race just waiting to impregnate you and never know their offspring? Riiiight. It's pretty unbelievable. But women fall for it, because it flatters their fancy and fulfills their fantasy that they are great---because they are having great men's offspirng.

    Scam banks. like this one are coming to to the forefront---like that scam High IQ sperm bank in California in the last few years. Like hate crime hoaxes, there are more scams than actual decent ones.

    Lesbians, however, are more susceptible than straight feminists. A straight feminist usually have a male partner or gay male friend whose sperm could be used---then it's a known quantity, and it's about fertility treatment. Lesbians, with all their man hating, want a lot of anonymity from the father, unless he's a celebrity (David Crosby and Melissa Etheridge come to mind). So a sperm bank seems ideal to the addled mind of a Lesbian---a perfect mark audience.
    , @Olorin
    @SFG


    They got screwed by a sperm bank.
     
    Exactly. Mentally disabled.
  15. @Dave Pinsen
    They would have been better off using a donor they knew. A former boss of my girlfriend is gay, and he and his partner have both donated sperm to (different) lesbian friends. I think the former boss waved his parental rights, but he still has contact with his biological child and is treated as an uncle or something.

    Replies: @27 year old, @TheJester, @Anonymous

    No issues here … moral, eugenic, social, or otherwise. Right? If we can believe the homosexual community, they are as they are because of immutable genes over which they have no control. That is precisely why society has to accept them on moral, social, and legal grounds. No choices here, in spite of the shrieking from the feminist community that gender is the result of transient personal choice and, therefore, “we are all gender fluid”.

    We know that homosexuality is genetic because we read about it in the MSM, although they have not yet found that gene (perhaps this gene is as mysterious and as real “White privilege”).

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/06/11/the_science_of_sexual_orientation_the_latest_on_genes_chromosomes_and_environmental.html

    So, there is an issue. The lesbian couples in the story are perhaps predisposing their offspring to someday discover they are also gay or lesbian as the result of immutable genes. If gamete sharing among homosexuals is common, then it would appear that the homosexual community is reproducing itself in its own image in plain sight. If they have a right to their own unique cultures, social rules, and traditions, perhaps (like our new-found immigrant communities) they should also have a right to their own segregated communities — “safe spaces” — so that they and their offspring can live in peace with people like themselves in their own genetically predisposed communities.

  16. As the old saying had it, ‘beware of buying a “pig-in-the-poke” ‘.

    These days its seems more like a case of avoiding ‘poking the pig’.

  17. @SPMoore8
    "He began donating sperm immediately ..." is a great line, sort of like, "We've accepted you into the program!" "Great!" he ejaculated.

    Every time I hear a story like this I feel bad for the kids; how does Mom explain to Buster that he isn't the son she paid for. The one thing about having kids the normal way is that the man and woman involved are usually in a committed love relationship, or at the very least were in love at one time. It's kind of hard to sacralize these procedures, especially when the kid grows up and finds out that Mom misread the catalog or wanted money because she couldn't return the product.

    Speaking of Turks, this reminds me of my favorite donor story that I read in Parade about 40 years ago: This German couple wanted a child but they couldn't conceive. Meanwhile, a Turkish family lived downstairs, and had eight kids. So, they hired Mustafa to service Gretchen on Saturday afternoons for about six months. No pregnancy. Finally, they sued. Well, it turned out that Mustafa was impotent ..... No, I don't know what happened next.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @ikram, @Harry Baldwin, @AndrewR

    Gretchen couldn’t tell mustafa was impotent until six months passed? The joke here is that Germans don’t engage in regular sex?

    • Replies: @Ivy
    @ikram

    Mustafa probably got snipped, after trying to feed and clothe all those kids, and got a free ride for a while. He coulda asked for grocery money, too. Coming soon to German TV.

    , @Anonymous
    @ikram

    Instead of impotent, I believe they meant sterile. So he serviced the man's wife, but couldn't impregnate her. It begs the question, who fathered the 8 children?

  18. I wonder if there’s data on how many sperm bank customers seek out sperm from Nordic types or “blond haired, blue eyed” guys. I remember once reading online where a guy (fellow iSteve commenter maybe) once went to some sort of convention held for sperm donor kids or sperm recipient families. He said there were so many blond, blue eyed kids there it was like being in the Fourth Reich.

    • Replies: @fish
    @Corn


    "He said there were so many blond, blue eyed kids there it was like being in the Fourth Reich."
     
    That's funny....I was sure that "tiny duck" and Troof said dat all the whites woman wanted teh black spunk.
  19. About twenty years ago a buddy of mine worked for a multinational. They were in China and had to hire a princeling to sell in China.

    A co-worker had a narrow urethra or whatever so they decided to adopt a Chinese orphan girl, which used to be the lesbian adoption of choice a generation ago. Oak Park is stuffed with the Chinese daughters of lesbians.

    So this dude went to the Princeling to hook him up with an orphan. No problem says the Princeling…I’ll be back in town in 2 months and we will fix this. It will cost about 10-15k but there you go.

    Princeling back in town 2 months later, no baby but a photo album of Chinese girls in cheesecake poses. He explains the orphans available were the daughters of whores…and who knows who the father is. You pick a girl, go to China for six weeks or so, and with luck nine months later you have your own daughter.

    Princeling was dumbstruck that the dude’s wife would object.

  20. No, it’s not really that funny. One of the less considered aspects of SSU (Same Sex Unions – I refuse to call them marriages) is that any children conceived will be by non-partners. In-vitro conception, in addition to being expensive, is also ripe with opportunities for fraud. The people who do the selling of sperm, as well as those who “rent their womb” or sell their eggs, are not, generally, at the top of the genetic ladder.

    It is truly sad that the children will likely suffer – their incidence of mental illness will likely exceed the norm.

    But, the ladies involved in the SSU should use this as a wake-up call – TANSTAAFL.

  21. If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you’d be sympathetic.

    The only person who deserves sympathy is the child, who was created by the vanity of the parents.

    To sue the sperm bank because the outcome (so to speak) was not what you were paying for is to place a shameful burden on that child — that human being — for the rest of its life.

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that but because the donor in this case didn’t have the IQ they sought and didn’t have the advanced degrees that they sought.

    I don’t want to go off on this, but, again, the only person who deserves consideration right now is that child. The parents can wait, because that’s what parents are supposed to do: gay, lesbian or straight.

    • Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    What are the laws in different countries / localities re financial responsibility of biological fathers for the well-being of respective mothers and children ?
    In my age I am not looking to become a sperm donor.
    *
    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as 'Czechia',
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36048186
    Let us commemorate "The Good Soldier Švejk ",
    his creator, remarkable Czech author Jaroslav Hašek and
    famous illustrator of the book Josef Lada.

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @Big Bill, @SPMoore8, @PiltdownMan

    , @whahae
    @SPMoore8

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that

    Schizophrenia is highly hereditary.

    Replies: @dumpstersquirrel, @SPMoore8

    , @dumpstersquirrel
    @SPMoore8

    "The only person who deserves sympathy is the child, who was created by the vanity of the parents."

    Callous disregard toward children fits like a fist in latex glove for sodomites, the same callous disregard that male sodomites have toward the little boys they fantasize about raping and sometimes actually do rape. They regard children as objects, mere outlets for their criminal desires, to be ruined, diseased, corrupted, and tossed aside without regret.

    #itsnothing2celebrate

    , @AnotherDad
    @SPMoore8


    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes ...
     
    Mr. Moore, this is a particularly ridiculous comment on an HBD blog.

    There isn't some magic binary "defective gene" thingy, other than flat out mutations which don't build the protein they are suppose to. What we have is genes. I have all sorts of them--pretty good ones in the net--but not necessarily the ones someone wants. If the gals were promised someone blue eyed, blond haired and 6'2" ... then my genes relative to that are in fact "defective".

    Just for starters these gals thought they were getting a guy who was "well adjusted", who had the IQ and the "get-my-shit-together"ness to get a couple of technical degrees. They are getting someone without that high IQ, who is a bum a screwup and mentally ill. That's is clearly--for anyone with a clue--definitely the product of a wildly different package of genes. A package which most middle class people would in fact call "defective". He's a screwup at normal middle class life skills for modern industrial society. And their kid is much more likely to be a screwup as well--inheriting all the pain that comes with that, while the lesbo parents get all the parental pain that comes with dealing with that.

    I'm generally hostile to single motherhood period--they are parasites on civilization. I'd be more than happy to tell these lesbians--no baby for you; if you want one, get a husband. But were these "gals" defrauded--yes.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  22. @SFG
    @whorefinder

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you'd be sympathetic.

    I'm not saying militant lesbians don't create huge problems with feminism--the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I'm seriously considering never marrying. But this ain't that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we're hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    Replies: @Thea, @Alice, @ScarletNumber, @Big Bill, @whorefinder, @Olorin

    No, most would say adopt.

    Sperm banks are icky. Also They have a real problem with few quality donors. Like this gentleman, some men have dozens or hundreds of children. What happens if they meet & unknowingly have children?

    • Replies: @Paul Mendez
    @Thea


    Also They have a real problem with few quality donors.
     
    Dang, I wish I had known there was such demand for sperm donors back when I was a teen! The HS guidance counselor kept telling me to find a job doing something I loved, but he never mentioned this particular career. I'd have been a millionaire.
    , @Hepp
    @Thea


    No, most would say adopt.
     
    Adoption is evil and spits in the face of evolution. Adoption is r selected people creating more of themselves and having them being taken care of by k selected people.

    Maybe if someone comes from a genius line and his parents died, it could be a nobel activity, as you're not looking after your genetic interests but you are raising someone likely to be a benefit to society. But most cases of adoption is putting resources into helping the worst genetic material.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @BB753

    , @Stan d Mute
    @Thea


    No, most would say adopt.
     
    Adopt whom? Since Roe v Wade, the availability of prime infants is gone. Wannabe parents have to go buy Laotian babies anymore. I know a family with two blond and blue eyed sons that also has a couple Vietnamese daughters. The sons are natural. Parents are both blond and blue eyed. Awkward? And these folks were very affluent. If wealthy Americans can't find white kids to adopt, what are they to do, buy an African?
  23. Wait, why does it matter that he went to went to Whatever University? Hadn’t we decided that those things aren’t heritable?

    Surely as long as you provide the right lesbian Nurture the child will turn out alright.

    Or did everybody quietly accept the facts about intelligence while I wasn’t paying attention?

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    @kihowi


    Wait, why does it matter that he went to went to Whatever University? Hadn’t we decided that those things aren’t heritable?
     
    I say we should twist their tails hard and wind those suckers up!

    Draft a citizen initiative in California to ban the identification of sperm donors by race, age, national origin, religion, IQ and educational attainment. I would sign that petition in a New York minute.

    Claim disparate impact. Argue invidious discrimination. Point to discriminatory practices. Show how few black and Mexican sperm donors are used. Insist on anonymizing sperm donors. "Only then can we break white male hegemony in Big Sperm!"

    Heck, demand that criminal history be removed from the lesbian sperm catalogs as well, since it is discriminatory toward blacks. "How else can ex-convicts be re-integrated as full and equal citizens once they have paid their debt to society?" "As we all know, criminality is not genetic!"

    Yikes! Can't you just see the mass lesbian/feminist freak out?
  24. http://youtu.be/NdDOmuWz92I

    Funny scene from the movie “The Way of the Gun.” Not as funny as the scene where Sarah Silverman gets punched in the nose, however.

  25. @SPMoore8
    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you’d be sympathetic.

    The only person who deserves sympathy is the child, who was created by the vanity of the parents.

    To sue the sperm bank because the outcome (so to speak) was not what you were paying for is to place a shameful burden on that child -- that human being -- for the rest of its life.

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that but because the donor in this case didn't have the IQ they sought and didn't have the advanced degrees that they sought.

    I don't want to go off on this, but, again, the only person who deserves consideration right now is that child. The parents can wait, because that's what parents are supposed to do: gay, lesbian or straight.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @whahae, @dumpstersquirrel, @AnotherDad

    What are the laws in different countries / localities re financial responsibility of biological fathers for the well-being of respective mothers and children ?
    In my age I am not looking to become a sperm donor.
    *
    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as ‘Czechia’,
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36048186
    Let us commemorate “The Good Soldier Švejk “,
    his creator, remarkable Czech author Jaroslav Hašek and
    famous illustrator of the book Josef Lada.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    "Karel Schwarzenberg, a former foreign minister, suggested simply using the name Bohemia, which was used as early as medieval times. “Why are we avoiding the historic name Bohemia, which for centuries served as the name of our country?” a Czech news site, Aktualne, quoted him as saying. “Why do we have to do this artificially and make up names like Czechia?”"

    Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle, @Anon7, @Seamus

    , @AndrewR
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    Czechia self before you wreck yourself!

    Replies: @Pericles

    , @Big Bill
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    Good question. There is a fundamental tension between the sperm donor laws and common law rights and duties of parenthood.

    The common law in most states says that if you make a baby you are responsible for it. Further, the courts will not honor a contract between a father and mother that attempts to change this. In other words, if you "donate" sperm to some woman who knows you, the court can compel her to identify you and force you to support your child. Heck, she may WANT to do this if her kid gets sick and her lesbian lover dumps her. The court will not respect any contract you two have that attempts to absolve you of parental responsibility, as "against public policy".

    This is where the sperm donation laws come in. Most states have passed some version of the UPA (Uniform Parentage Act). The UPA says (1) as long as the woman's doctor is a sperm-go-between and sperm injector, and (2) the donor signs a sperm release, and (3) the woman's husband signs a contract to be the child's legal father, then sperm donations are legal.

    The UPA is designed to create a pretend family with pretend parents so the donor can never be identified and the kid will always have a mom and dad.

    The doctor functions as a legal barrier and legal fiction to prevent the state courts from finding out who the real father is (and forcing the real father to support the child). How so? The courts cannot force a woman's "doctor" to testify about her "treatment" under the doctor-patient privilege of secrecy. And since SHE never knew your name, she can't sue you even if she wanted to.

    [I use scare quotes because the woman has no disease for which she required medical treatment. She is perfectly healthy. Any idiot can use a turkey baster or a penis to inject sperm into a vagina ... as lesbians know.]

    The function of the waivers signed by the real father and the fake father assuaged the state legislators' public policy concerns back in the 60s and 70s that every child has both a mother and father.

    Lesbians and single gals have long fought to weaken/modify the UPA. Some states, for example, do not require a replacement father.

    The UPA does NOT make EVERY donor insemination legal. Lots of lesbians bypass the UPA rules, cut out the doctor, buy their own sperm (or get it from friends) and use a turkey baster.

    So what's the big deal for a donor, you ask? : You can donate sperm to a sperm lab, sign the requisite sperm release and still be the legal dad. If anyone screws up on the UPA paperwork, if your identity leaks out, if the recipient doesn't use a doctor, etc., you are still the legal father.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @SPMoore8
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    Bol'shoe spacibo, drug moi.

    It's interesting we were discussing these naming possibilities just the other day and now they are doing it. I have to agree with other posters below, "Czechia" is pretty lame, they should just go with "Bohemia."

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    When the Czechs become wealthy and start lording it over other Europeans, then those lesser mortals will be heard walking around muttering "Czechia privilege."


    I'm weak and could not resist.

  26. @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter

    And sometime in the 21st century, some country will go to war with the Danes for child support. Justifiably, I might add, though the “donors” themselves are usually dupes.

    Denmark’s leading role in both pioneering “sex changes” and “sperm donation” shows that even the most level-headed of peoples have their dark sides.

    Applying ethics to an inherently unethical business is always a hopeless quest. Honoe among thieves– yeah, right.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Sorry, but this reminds me of an hilarious headline from a UK gutter press Sunday tabloid of quite a few years ago.

    The story was the the police had raided and closed down an 'illegal sperm trading business'.

    The immortal tabloid headline splashed(!) all over the paper was 'DIXON OF COCK CREAM'.

    To an America, or indeed to any Brit or non Brit younger than 50 I realise that the pun is impossible.

    Well anyway, the TV cop show starring the late Jack Warner (definitely not crooked or Fifa) ,was 'Dixon of Dock Green' a spin off 1948's 'Blue Lamp' starring the aforementioned Warner and Dirk Bogarde.
    Another factoid, Jack Warner played PC Dixon right into his 70s. UK police are mandated to retire before 60.

    Replies: @martin_2

  27. @SFG
    @whorefinder

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you'd be sympathetic.

    I'm not saying militant lesbians don't create huge problems with feminism--the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I'm seriously considering never marrying. But this ain't that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we're hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    Replies: @Thea, @Alice, @ScarletNumber, @Big Bill, @whorefinder, @Olorin

    No, I’m not sympathetic to families that use donors.

    Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you’ve done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don’t murder or steal, don’t sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.

    Mirabile dictu! You do these things prevent you from needing schizophrenic sperm donors, prevent you from aborting your own offspring when you are young and healthy enough to have babies, prevent you from shacking up with some idiot who rapes or murders your children while you go find a new honey, prevents you from wasting your money gambling, drinking, whoring, stops you from taking out nondoc loans for homes 7 times your earnings, etc. Etc. Etc.

    To this issue of lesbian eugenics: who except a) the most vain, narcissistic, stupid men who can’t work out the possible inplications of random multiple daddyhood to their future emotional or financial well-being would donate aperm? Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis. But I’m sure that’s profiling.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Alice


    Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis.
     
    You seem like a very nice lady (no sarcasm). I would be willing to bet that very many and maybe even most men donating have a fetish: that fathering scores of anonymous babies by scores of anonymous women turns them on. This is especially likely to be true if we weight our counts of men by how many times they donate (as we should). These men will also be particularly likely to lie in order to get their sperm into as many women as possible.

    So, basically, if you use a sperm bank, Ted Cruz will be the baby's father.
    , @Daniel H
    @Alice

    I remember that world.

    , @stillCARealist
    @Alice

    You said it well. I'm no Catholic, but I like the picture you paint an awful lot better than what we've got going on now.

    Back when I read the newspaper (the 80's) the SF Chronicle always had articles about sperm donors, and they were heavily homosexual in number. I wonder why? Of course there were no details in the paper, probably too icky even for that printed trash.

    , @Wilkey
    @Alice

    "Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you’ve done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don’t murder or steal, don’t sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church."

    ...and then let your country get invaded anyway by billions of foreign barbarians who grope your daughters on the street and force their women to parade around in trash bags.

    Gee, if only we all followed the teachings of the Catholic Church.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    , @Former Darfur
    @Alice

    I am a sperm donor.

    My wife had her uterus removed after our first and only child and having a 145 IQ and 20/10 vision (but not, alas, the overall athleticism to make it farther than college baseball) I did not want my genes dying out if our daughter "chose childfree" or picked a worthless mate. Plus the pay was good for bait and beer money.

    As it turned out I need not have worried-daughter has given us four grandchildren, all smart and good looking.

    The problem is not that sperm donors are specially stupid or immoral ( until the 1970s, almost all were med students) but that the best men mostly refuse to donate. If you think your genes are worth surviving, guys, quit bitching and take matters into your own hand.

    Replies: @BB753

  28. Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as ‘Czechia’,

    Wow. There will finally be a European land with a name that sounds worse in English than “Belarus”. I prefer “White Russia” and “the Kingdom of the Bohemians and Moravians” myself.

    Then again, “Kingdom for Czechs” (KFC) lends itself to both space considerations and licensing possibilities.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Reg Cæsar

    "Czechlands" would have been cool.

  29. @SPMoore8
    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you’d be sympathetic.

    The only person who deserves sympathy is the child, who was created by the vanity of the parents.

    To sue the sperm bank because the outcome (so to speak) was not what you were paying for is to place a shameful burden on that child -- that human being -- for the rest of its life.

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that but because the donor in this case didn't have the IQ they sought and didn't have the advanced degrees that they sought.

    I don't want to go off on this, but, again, the only person who deserves consideration right now is that child. The parents can wait, because that's what parents are supposed to do: gay, lesbian or straight.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @whahae, @dumpstersquirrel, @AnotherDad

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that

    Schizophrenia is highly hereditary.

    • Replies: @dumpstersquirrel
    @whahae

    "Schizophrenia is highly hereditary."

    And highly correlated with drug use. Anyone with schizos in his family should resolve early on to never touch meth or booze. In fact, every schizo I've known has been a drug/booze addict, no exceptions.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @Jack D

    , @SPMoore8
    @whahae

    Schizophrenia is not that highly heritable, moreover that doesn't appear to be why they are suing.

    What's going on here is two ladies are suing Dad because he's not what they wanted. By extension, the are publicly indicating displeasure with their child.

    "Mommy, who's my Daddy?"

    "Pedro Martinez Some crazy bum, technically, schizophrenic. He's also a loser and a liar."

    "Am I going to grow up to be a scissormania loser liar?"

    "You might. That's why we sued the sperm bank. We believe that parents are entitled to the child they paid for. Basically, we didn't want you the way you are."

    Replies: @NOTA

  30. @SFG
    @whorefinder

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you'd be sympathetic.

    I'm not saying militant lesbians don't create huge problems with feminism--the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I'm seriously considering never marrying. But this ain't that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we're hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    Replies: @Thea, @Alice, @ScarletNumber, @Big Bill, @whorefinder, @Olorin

    You are missing the point.

  31. @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    What are the laws in different countries / localities re financial responsibility of biological fathers for the well-being of respective mothers and children ?
    In my age I am not looking to become a sperm donor.
    *
    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as 'Czechia',
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36048186
    Let us commemorate "The Good Soldier Švejk ",
    his creator, remarkable Czech author Jaroslav Hašek and
    famous illustrator of the book Josef Lada.

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @Big Bill, @SPMoore8, @PiltdownMan

    “Karel Schwarzenberg, a former foreign minister, suggested simply using the name Bohemia, which was used as early as medieval times. “Why are we avoiding the historic name Bohemia, which for centuries served as the name of our country?” a Czech news site, Aktualne, quoted him as saying. “Why do we have to do this artificially and make up names like Czechia?””

    • Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle
    @Flip

    Bohemia is a foreign name, the czechs call that region Čechy, that is Czechia. Bohemia is also just one of the czech lands together with Moravia (and some say with czech Silesia but this is a more recent name)
    But if they adopt this name they should make Bohemian Rhapsody their anthem.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anon7
    @Flip

    A Scandal in Bohemia!

    , @Seamus
    @Flip


    “Why are we avoiding the historic name Bohemia, which for centuries served as the name of our country?”
     
    Well, because Bohemia is only one half of the country. If you called it "Bohemia and Moravia," that would be more accurate, but it would sound like a revival of the "Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia," which Germany established over the Czech lands between 1939 and 1945.
  32. @Reg Cæsar

    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as ‘Czechia’,
     
    Wow. There will finally be a European land with a name that sounds worse in English than "Belarus". I prefer "White Russia" and "the Kingdom of the Bohemians and Moravians" myself.

    Then again, "Kingdom for Czechs" (KFC) lends itself to both space considerations and licensing possibilities.

    Replies: @Flip

    “Czechlands” would have been cool.

  33. So what do they tell the child about his father growing up? I imagine I’d have been pretty unhappy knowing that my father was an anonymous test tube donor. I’d probably hate my mother and her partner. It seems evil to me to deliberately create a child with no father.

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    @Flip

    In some European countries (Norway?) sperm donors are entered into a government registry and the kids can get access to their real father's identity once they are adults. They deem it a human right to know who your real parents are.

  34. @SPMoore8
    "He began donating sperm immediately ..." is a great line, sort of like, "We've accepted you into the program!" "Great!" he ejaculated.

    Every time I hear a story like this I feel bad for the kids; how does Mom explain to Buster that he isn't the son she paid for. The one thing about having kids the normal way is that the man and woman involved are usually in a committed love relationship, or at the very least were in love at one time. It's kind of hard to sacralize these procedures, especially when the kid grows up and finds out that Mom misread the catalog or wanted money because she couldn't return the product.

    Speaking of Turks, this reminds me of my favorite donor story that I read in Parade about 40 years ago: This German couple wanted a child but they couldn't conceive. Meanwhile, a Turkish family lived downstairs, and had eight kids. So, they hired Mustafa to service Gretchen on Saturday afternoons for about six months. No pregnancy. Finally, they sued. Well, it turned out that Mustafa was impotent ..... No, I don't know what happened next.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @ikram, @Harry Baldwin, @AndrewR

    Don’t you mean sterile, not impotent? If the latter, I don’t get it.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Harry Baldwin

    @mustafa

    Yes, you and Mustafa are correct, I meant infertile rather than impotent. But you know how the editing function works around here ......

    What it means -- and why I remember it -- is that Mustafa wasn't the father of his eight children, either, and evidently did not know this.

  35. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    They would have been better off using a donor they knew. A former boss of my girlfriend is gay, and he and his partner have both donated sperm to (different) lesbian friends. I think the former boss waved his parental rights, but he still has contact with his biological child and is treated as an uncle or something.

    Replies: @27 year old, @TheJester, @Anonymous

    They would have been better off using a donor they knew. A former boss of my girlfriend is gay, and he and his partner have both donated sperm to (different) lesbian friends. I think the former boss waved his parental rights, but he still has contact with his biological child and is treated as an uncle or something.

    I do background investigations for the USG in security clearance investigations. A good number of people, who look good on paper and in person, have serious mental or emotional issues or serious skeletons in their closet that they will not tell their best friends about. Or if they do tell close confidants about seeing a shrink they’ll say they’re seeing someone for depression/anxiety, which they also have, and which there’s not much stigma involving.

    Past behavior is indicative of future behavior and the nature and character of someone.

    Smarter, more educated people are more skillful at hiding their past fucked up behavior or mental issues. With some skillful questioning and bluffing as to why a Subject failed a poly, I’ve been able to elicit some pretty dark past behavior (e.g., sexual deviancy w/o law enforcement involvement) that not even the Subject’s wife of 30 years knows about. I will then interview friends of 30 years and none will have knowledge of these skeletons. And I know when someone’s not being truthful.

    Given what I know, no way would I trust what I see on paper or know through normal daily interactions. Especially when picking the DNA of my progeny.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous

    "I will then interview friends of 30 years and none will have knowledge of these skeletons. And I know when someone’s not being truthful."

    You sound way too confident in your skills.

  36. @SPMoore8
    "He began donating sperm immediately ..." is a great line, sort of like, "We've accepted you into the program!" "Great!" he ejaculated.

    Every time I hear a story like this I feel bad for the kids; how does Mom explain to Buster that he isn't the son she paid for. The one thing about having kids the normal way is that the man and woman involved are usually in a committed love relationship, or at the very least were in love at one time. It's kind of hard to sacralize these procedures, especially when the kid grows up and finds out that Mom misread the catalog or wanted money because she couldn't return the product.

    Speaking of Turks, this reminds me of my favorite donor story that I read in Parade about 40 years ago: This German couple wanted a child but they couldn't conceive. Meanwhile, a Turkish family lived downstairs, and had eight kids. So, they hired Mustafa to service Gretchen on Saturday afternoons for about six months. No pregnancy. Finally, they sued. Well, it turned out that Mustafa was impotent ..... No, I don't know what happened next.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @ikram, @Harry Baldwin, @AndrewR

    That story would make an incredible film

  37. @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    What are the laws in different countries / localities re financial responsibility of biological fathers for the well-being of respective mothers and children ?
    In my age I am not looking to become a sperm donor.
    *
    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as 'Czechia',
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36048186
    Let us commemorate "The Good Soldier Švejk ",
    his creator, remarkable Czech author Jaroslav Hašek and
    famous illustrator of the book Josef Lada.

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @Big Bill, @SPMoore8, @PiltdownMan

    Czechia self before you wreck yourself!

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @AndrewR

    Chechnya self before ya wriggidawreck yaself.

  38. Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as ‘Czechia’

    Perhaps “Czechia” sounds pleasing to Slavic ears, but seriously, its not like “Czechland” was taken already. Bohemia-Moravia is too clunky; everyone would just call the place “Bohemia” (like they already refer to Bosnia-Herzegovina as “Bosnia”).

    On the plus side of the ledger, “the Czech Republic” is a terrible name.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    "On the plus side of the ledger, “the Czech Republic” is a terrible name."

    To my ear it sounds better than "Czechia", which sounds uncomfortably to close to "Chechnia". Although if Czechia confuses State Department officials into letting Czechs immigrate in place of Chechens, then it will have been worth it.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Old Palo Altan
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    I have a suggestion:
    Someone should persuade the Prince of Liechtenstein to buy it and name it after his family, as his ancestor did with the two counties of Schellenberg and Vaduz in the early 18th Century.
    This probably wouldn't seriously deplete the family bank balance and would also neatly solve the longstanding legal dispute about the return of the confiscated Liechtenstein properties in Moravia.

    , @anon
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    I've been calling it Czechia for years - "Czech Republic" has one too many syllables - two or three is best.

  39. Why all the fuss? Any good “progressive” –and these sperm-shopping lesbians evince traits indicative of “progressives” tendencies–would “know” that psychological traits are NOT inherited and that they are distributed evenly throughout the population. To aver otherwise would be to risk ostracism. One doing this would start sounding like those racist pigs, Pauling, Shockley, Watson, Chagnon, Harpending, Cochrane, et al. /sarc.

  40. @SFG
    @whorefinder

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you'd be sympathetic.

    I'm not saying militant lesbians don't create huge problems with feminism--the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I'm seriously considering never marrying. But this ain't that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we're hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    Replies: @Thea, @Alice, @ScarletNumber, @Big Bill, @whorefinder, @Olorin

    “Sympathetic”?

    Why on earth would anyone be sympathetic for the poor sperm choices women make?

    For aeons, women have gotten sperm donations from donors that are losers.

    They are pretty stupid about that.

    Any idiot who buys sperm-in-a-bag from a complete stranger deserves what they get.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Big Bill

    "Any idiot who buys sperm-in-a-bag from a complete stranger deserves what they get."

    The idiot might deserve it, but the child doesn't.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Big Bill

    I agree.

  41. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter
     
    And sometime in the 21st century, some country will go to war with the Danes for child support. Justifiably, I might add, though the "donors" themselves are usually dupes.

    Denmark's leading role in both pioneering "sex changes" and "sperm donation" shows that even the most level-headed of peoples have their dark sides.

    Applying ethics to an inherently unethical business is always a hopeless quest. Honoe among thieves-- yeah, right.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Sorry, but this reminds me of an hilarious headline from a UK gutter press Sunday tabloid of quite a few years ago.

    The story was the the police had raided and closed down an ‘illegal sperm trading business’.

    The immortal tabloid headline splashed(!) all over the paper was ‘DIXON OF COCK CREAM’.

    To an America, or indeed to any Brit or non Brit younger than 50 I realise that the pun is impossible.

    Well anyway, the TV cop show starring the late Jack Warner (definitely not crooked or Fifa) ,was ‘Dixon of Dock Green’ a spin off 1948’s ‘Blue Lamp’ starring the aforementioned Warner and Dirk Bogarde.
    Another factoid, Jack Warner played PC Dixon right into his 70s. UK police are mandated to retire before 60.

    • Replies: @martin_2
    @Anonymous

    Into his eighties, I believe.

  42. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    So let me get this straight.

    Some men are exploiting some women and having many offspring without any of the hassles of having to actually deal with women?

    That sounds like Evolution in Action to me (as Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven would say.)

  43. @27 year old
    @Dave Pinsen

    Modern Family. What could possibly go wrong....

    Replies: @RaceRealist88

    The biggest crock of propaganda I’ve ever seen. They’re trying to make us believe that the everyday gay “family” is like those 2 gays on that show. Ha, yea right.

  44. @Flip
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    "Karel Schwarzenberg, a former foreign minister, suggested simply using the name Bohemia, which was used as early as medieval times. “Why are we avoiding the historic name Bohemia, which for centuries served as the name of our country?” a Czech news site, Aktualne, quoted him as saying. “Why do we have to do this artificially and make up names like Czechia?”"

    Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle, @Anon7, @Seamus

    Bohemia is a foreign name, the czechs call that region Čechy, that is Czechia. Bohemia is also just one of the czech lands together with Moravia (and some say with czech Silesia but this is a more recent name)
    But if they adopt this name they should make Bohemian Rhapsody their anthem.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Pseudonymic Handle


    Bohemia is a foreign name, the czechs call that region Čechy, that is Czechia. Bohemia is also just one of the czech lands together with Moravia (and some say with czech Silesia but this is a more recent name)
    But if they adopt this name they should make Bohemian Rhapsody their anthem.
     
    I hope this doesn't affect that old joke?

    What do you call a Bohemian kicked out of a nightclub? A bounced Czech.
  45. @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

    (My Dad was a Dane…) Yes, we’re doing it again, but Trump-style.

    From 800-1000 or so, my Danish ancestors raided the British isles, raping for free, with just what you can get from pillaging monasteries and churches to support their sailing lifestyle.

    But now, the Danes are making British women PAY FOR IT.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    @Anon7

    I just found out that Britain outlawed anonymous sperm donation; that's one reason why British women go outside the country to get what they want.

    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2icn8p

    Pretty racy double entendre for the BBC...

    Replies: @Big Bill, @anon, @Stan d Mute

    , @Expletive Deleted
    @Anon7

    And a happy St Brice's Day (13 Nov) to thee, sirrah!

    Replies: @Anon7

  46. ” I imagine I’d have been pretty unhappy knowing that my father was an anonymous test tube donor”

    When I was growing up my mom snd dad told me they loved each other so they got married. Then they wanted kids to love so they had two children. Fast forward to the twenty first century: “Your second mom and I wanted a baby. Fortunately a lot of young men in college think it’s cool getting paid to masturbate at the lab.”

  47. @Flip
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    "Karel Schwarzenberg, a former foreign minister, suggested simply using the name Bohemia, which was used as early as medieval times. “Why are we avoiding the historic name Bohemia, which for centuries served as the name of our country?” a Czech news site, Aktualne, quoted him as saying. “Why do we have to do this artificially and make up names like Czechia?”"

    Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle, @Anon7, @Seamus

    A Scandal in Bohemia!

  48. @Anon7
    @Steve Sailer

    (My Dad was a Dane...) Yes, we're doing it again, but Trump-style.

    From 800-1000 or so, my Danish ancestors raided the British isles, raping for free, with just what you can get from pillaging monasteries and churches to support their sailing lifestyle.

    But now, the Danes are making British women PAY FOR IT.

    Replies: @Anon7, @Expletive Deleted

    I just found out that Britain outlawed anonymous sperm donation; that’s one reason why British women go outside the country to get what they want.

    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2icn8p

    Pretty racy double entendre for the BBC…

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    @Anon7

    And then there's this guy:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35262535

    And this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF_GqzKiMv4

    , @anon
    @Anon7

    In the UK's case i wouldn't be surprised if it was banned *because* ppl were choosing viking DNA.

    , @Stan d Mute
    @Anon7


    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
     
    This is supportive of my earlier comment. I was adopted as an infant. These little Viking kids look like my own earliest photos. Snow white hair, vivid blue eyes, tall kids. But had I been conceived a few years later, I would have been aborted. My massively over qualified adoptive parents could not have found a little tow headed blue eyed infant no matter how well qualified they were to adopt. This then is the downside of abortion, the loss of potentially productive citizens and frustration of hopeful adoptive parents who may then turn in desperation to adopting African or Asian kids. Is this loss offset by the gains from aborting the underclass future criminals? And to the extent the hopeful adoptive parents simply import new Africans offsetting the mulattoes aborted in America, is there really any gain at all?

    The other comment re the video is that people vote with their feet. None of those women would dream of admitting she is "racist" yet they *all* deliberately conceived blond haired blue eyed kids. Do *any* white women seek African sperm donors or Asian sperm donors?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Jefferson, @Olorin

  49. So the ‘Nazis’ were right.

  50. @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    What are the laws in different countries / localities re financial responsibility of biological fathers for the well-being of respective mothers and children ?
    In my age I am not looking to become a sperm donor.
    *
    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as 'Czechia',
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36048186
    Let us commemorate "The Good Soldier Švejk ",
    his creator, remarkable Czech author Jaroslav Hašek and
    famous illustrator of the book Josef Lada.

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @Big Bill, @SPMoore8, @PiltdownMan

    Good question. There is a fundamental tension between the sperm donor laws and common law rights and duties of parenthood.

    The common law in most states says that if you make a baby you are responsible for it. Further, the courts will not honor a contract between a father and mother that attempts to change this. In other words, if you “donate” sperm to some woman who knows you, the court can compel her to identify you and force you to support your child. Heck, she may WANT to do this if her kid gets sick and her lesbian lover dumps her. The court will not respect any contract you two have that attempts to absolve you of parental responsibility, as “against public policy”.

    This is where the sperm donation laws come in. Most states have passed some version of the UPA (Uniform Parentage Act). The UPA says (1) as long as the woman’s doctor is a sperm-go-between and sperm injector, and (2) the donor signs a sperm release, and (3) the woman’s husband signs a contract to be the child’s legal father, then sperm donations are legal.

    The UPA is designed to create a pretend family with pretend parents so the donor can never be identified and the kid will always have a mom and dad.

    The doctor functions as a legal barrier and legal fiction to prevent the state courts from finding out who the real father is (and forcing the real father to support the child). How so? The courts cannot force a woman’s “doctor” to testify about her “treatment” under the doctor-patient privilege of secrecy. And since SHE never knew your name, she can’t sue you even if she wanted to.

    [I use scare quotes because the woman has no disease for which she required medical treatment. She is perfectly healthy. Any idiot can use a turkey baster or a penis to inject sperm into a vagina … as lesbians know.]

    The function of the waivers signed by the real father and the fake father assuaged the state legislators’ public policy concerns back in the 60s and 70s that every child has both a mother and father.

    Lesbians and single gals have long fought to weaken/modify the UPA. Some states, for example, do not require a replacement father.

    The UPA does NOT make EVERY donor insemination legal. Lots of lesbians bypass the UPA rules, cut out the doctor, buy their own sperm (or get it from friends) and use a turkey baster.

    So what’s the big deal for a donor, you ask? : You can donate sperm to a sperm lab, sign the requisite sperm release and still be the legal dad. If anyone screws up on the UPA paperwork, if your identity leaks out, if the recipient doesn’t use a doctor, etc., you are still the legal father.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Big Bill

    Not so much the 'identity' leaking out.

    But, on second thoughts, considering the inheritance of personality.........

  51. http://evp.sagepub.com/content/12/4/147470491401200406.short We compared male and female 2D:4D ratios to female parliamentary representation, labor force participation, female education level, maternal mortality rates, and juvenile pregnancy rates per nation in a sample of 29 countries. We found those nations who showed higher than expected female fetal exposure to testosterone (low 2D:4D) and lower than expected male exposure to fetal testosterone (high 2D:4D) had higher rates of female parliamentary representation, and higher female labor force participation. In short, the more similar the two sexes were in 2D:4D, the more equal were the two sexes in parliamentary and labor force participation. The other variables were not as strongly correlated. We suggest that higher than expected fetal testosterone in females and lower fetal testosterone in males may lead to high female representation in the national labor force and in parliament

    Digit ratio in Denmak is the highest (ie most feminine) in the world. In Denmark homosexuality was legalised in 1933, the age of consent is 15, and it was the first country to legalize same sex unions. In a 1988 survey from Denmark, 625 women were asked if they had had any homosexual experiences. Only one said yes

    http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/who-pays-piper-for-arterial-stiffness.html?showComment=1264797930587#c1078591714917520700

    …The subject is interesting as my wife attended a seminar on Wednesday about androgen failure in the development of all sorts of things from hypospadia to low sperm count. Low sperm count was the researcher’s main topic. This correlates directly with degree of westernisation in a given country and the effect occurs in the first few weeks of foetal life. In Denmark one in 8 children is born to couples where medical assistance is needed due to low male sperm count. The chap is convinced it is not oestrogens doing it, but doesn’t know what is.

    Anyway, I think Danish fathered women may be on average genetically less likely to be lesbians.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Sean

    Denmark was also the first nation on earth to legalize hard core pornography.

    San Fernando in this context, at least, is a 'Johnny come lately'.

  52. @SPMoore8
    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you’d be sympathetic.

    The only person who deserves sympathy is the child, who was created by the vanity of the parents.

    To sue the sperm bank because the outcome (so to speak) was not what you were paying for is to place a shameful burden on that child -- that human being -- for the rest of its life.

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that but because the donor in this case didn't have the IQ they sought and didn't have the advanced degrees that they sought.

    I don't want to go off on this, but, again, the only person who deserves consideration right now is that child. The parents can wait, because that's what parents are supposed to do: gay, lesbian or straight.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @whahae, @dumpstersquirrel, @AnotherDad

    “The only person who deserves sympathy is the child, who was created by the vanity of the parents.”

    Callous disregard toward children fits like a fist in latex glove for sodomites, the same callous disregard that male sodomites have toward the little boys they fantasize about raping and sometimes actually do rape. They regard children as objects, mere outlets for their criminal desires, to be ruined, diseased, corrupted, and tossed aside without regret.

    #itsnothing2celebrate

  53. They should advertise for ex special forces and meet them in person to check
    – high IQ
    – ultra healthy (aka usually decent to good looking)
    – tons of good barbarian genes
    – conveniently packaged with farmer self-control genes to control the barbarian ones

  54. @whahae
    @SPMoore8

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that

    Schizophrenia is highly hereditary.

    Replies: @dumpstersquirrel, @SPMoore8

    “Schizophrenia is highly hereditary.”

    And highly correlated with drug use. Anyone with schizos in his family should resolve early on to never touch meth or booze. In fact, every schizo I’ve known has been a drug/booze addict, no exceptions.

    • Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR
    @dumpstersquirrel

    Wikipedia on genetic causes of :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Genetic
    I , I.f.f.U., have 2 sisters, 2 half-sisters, one half-brother, a bunch of blood relatives: aunts and uncles, cousins (about 20, some are nowadays deceased), about 9 first-order nephews and nieces, their kids and their grand-kids, my late parents and grandparents. None of them had (has) schizophrenia.
    One particular nephew: one of the two sons of my sister and her husband, at age about 30 developed schizophrenia. Before that he got married, produced daughter, got Ph.D. in the theory of elementary particles. He is still employed in that line of work, and his technical results, may be not super-outstanding, but are still published with some regularity. He is divorced. His daughter and his grand-daughter seem to be OK, at least with respect to mental health.
    *
    Where schizophrenia came from ?
    God, if You are there, please have mercy.

    , @Jack D
    @dumpstersquirrel

    Correlation says nothing about causation. The causation possibly (my guess is probably) runs in the other direction - schizophrenics try to self medicate with alcohol or illegal drugs to lessen their mental anguish, quiet the voices in their head, etc.

    Schizophrenics also tend to be heavy smokers - something like 88% of schizos smoke, and often they begin smoking at rates higher than the general population even before their mental symptoms become apparent (typically in the late teens). Again nicotine may make them feel better.

  55. @kihowi
    Wait, why does it matter that he went to went to Whatever University? Hadn't we decided that those things aren't heritable?

    Surely as long as you provide the right lesbian Nurture the child will turn out alright.

    Or did everybody quietly accept the facts about intelligence while I wasn't paying attention?

    Replies: @Big Bill

    Wait, why does it matter that he went to went to Whatever University? Hadn’t we decided that those things aren’t heritable?

    I say we should twist their tails hard and wind those suckers up!

    Draft a citizen initiative in California to ban the identification of sperm donors by race, age, national origin, religion, IQ and educational attainment. I would sign that petition in a New York minute.

    Claim disparate impact. Argue invidious discrimination. Point to discriminatory practices. Show how few black and Mexican sperm donors are used. Insist on anonymizing sperm donors. “Only then can we break white male hegemony in Big Sperm!”

    Heck, demand that criminal history be removed from the lesbian sperm catalogs as well, since it is discriminatory toward blacks. “How else can ex-convicts be re-integrated as full and equal citizens once they have paid their debt to society?” “As we all know, criminality is not genetic!”

    Yikes! Can’t you just see the mass lesbian/feminist freak out?

  56. @Flip
    So what do they tell the child about his father growing up? I imagine I'd have been pretty unhappy knowing that my father was an anonymous test tube donor. I'd probably hate my mother and her partner. It seems evil to me to deliberately create a child with no father.

    Replies: @Big Bill

    In some European countries (Norway?) sperm donors are entered into a government registry and the kids can get access to their real father’s identity once they are adults. They deem it a human right to know who your real parents are.

  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    @Flip

    Bohemia is a foreign name, the czechs call that region Čechy, that is Czechia. Bohemia is also just one of the czech lands together with Moravia (and some say with czech Silesia but this is a more recent name)
    But if they adopt this name they should make Bohemian Rhapsody their anthem.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Bohemia is a foreign name, the czechs call that region Čechy, that is Czechia. Bohemia is also just one of the czech lands together with Moravia (and some say with czech Silesia but this is a more recent name)
    But if they adopt this name they should make Bohemian Rhapsody their anthem.

    I hope this doesn’t affect that old joke?

    What do you call a Bohemian kicked out of a nightclub? A bounced Czech.

  58. @Anon7
    @Anon7

    I just found out that Britain outlawed anonymous sperm donation; that's one reason why British women go outside the country to get what they want.

    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2icn8p

    Pretty racy double entendre for the BBC...

    Replies: @Big Bill, @anon, @Stan d Mute

    And then there’s this guy:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35262535

    And this guy:

  59. isn´t it a but stupid to trust anybody who says he has an IQ of 160 anyway? Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Erik Sieven

    "isn't it a but stupid to trust anybody who says he has an IQ of 160 anyway?"

    Yeah. My first thought was "this guy has a 160 IQ and multiple neuroscience degrees and he's perfectly healthy...and he makes his living jacking off into a jar?"

    , @cwhatfuture
    @Erik Sieven

    I wondered why he didn't say he was a professional golfer as well. I have met maybe two people in my entire life with IQs I might say could be that high - both PhDs in Physics. And these lesbians just happen to find one in a sperm bank catalogue in Augusta Georgia? If this is standard lesbian behavior, I would like to sell them cars, boats, houses, anything.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    , @Whoever
    @Erik Sieven


    Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.
     
    North Hollywood High School's Highly Gifted Magnet accepts only students with a measured IQ of 145 or higher. I know someone who graduated from that program, and said person is not generally regarded as a suspicious character. I wonder if any graduates have become sperm (or egg) donors.
    The NH HGM website:
    http://www.nhhs.net/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=25389&type=d&pREC_ID=18640

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Triumph104

  60. The blog would be better if it was possible to filter the comments that are not related to the blog topic.

  61. @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    What are the laws in different countries / localities re financial responsibility of biological fathers for the well-being of respective mothers and children ?
    In my age I am not looking to become a sperm donor.
    *
    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as 'Czechia',
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36048186
    Let us commemorate "The Good Soldier Švejk ",
    his creator, remarkable Czech author Jaroslav Hašek and
    famous illustrator of the book Josef Lada.

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @Big Bill, @SPMoore8, @PiltdownMan

    Bol’shoe spacibo, drug moi.

    It’s interesting we were discussing these naming possibilities just the other day and now they are doing it. I have to agree with other posters below, “Czechia” is pretty lame, they should just go with “Bohemia.”

  62. @Harry Baldwin
    @SPMoore8

    Don't you mean sterile, not impotent? If the latter, I don't get it.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    @mustafa

    Yes, you and Mustafa are correct, I meant infertile rather than impotent. But you know how the editing function works around here ……

    What it means — and why I remember it — is that Mustafa wasn’t the father of his eight children, either, and evidently did not know this.

  63. @whahae
    @SPMoore8

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that

    Schizophrenia is highly hereditary.

    Replies: @dumpstersquirrel, @SPMoore8

    Schizophrenia is not that highly heritable, moreover that doesn’t appear to be why they are suing.

    What’s going on here is two ladies are suing Dad because he’s not what they wanted. By extension, the are publicly indicating displeasure with their child.

    “Mommy, who’s my Daddy?”

    Pedro Martinez Some crazy bum, technically, schizophrenic. He’s also a loser and a liar.”

    “Am I going to grow up to be a scissormania loser liar?”

    “You might. That’s why we sued the sperm bank. We believe that parents are entitled to the child they paid for. Basically, we didn’t want you the way you are.”

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @SPMoore8

    I can see how the legal battle would be rough on the kid, but it sure seems like a pretty straightforward kind of fraud or negligence case against a business, to me. You sold me goods with some assurances about them that you knew or should have known were false. It would be a better world if sperm banks were careful to honestly describe their donors. Given the privacy issues here, probably there should be some kind of regulation ensuring that the descriptions are accurate.

    Large scale use of sperm donors with accurate description is probably a small eugenic force in the world, making the world a slightly better place and hurting nobody.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  64. @Alice
    @SFG

    No, I'm not sympathetic to families that use donors.

    Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you've done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don't murder or steal, don't sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.

    Mirabile dictu! You do these things prevent you from needing schizophrenic sperm donors, prevent you from aborting your own offspring when you are young and healthy enough to have babies, prevent you from shacking up with some idiot who rapes or murders your children while you go find a new honey, prevents you from wasting your money gambling, drinking, whoring, stops you from taking out nondoc loans for homes 7 times your earnings, etc. Etc. Etc.

    To this issue of lesbian eugenics: who except a) the most vain, narcissistic, stupid men who can't work out the possible inplications of random multiple daddyhood to their future emotional or financial well-being would donate aperm? Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis. But I'm sure that's profiling.

    Replies: @Bill, @Daniel H, @stillCARealist, @Wilkey, @Former Darfur

    Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis.

    You seem like a very nice lady (no sarcasm). I would be willing to bet that very many and maybe even most men donating have a fetish: that fathering scores of anonymous babies by scores of anonymous women turns them on. This is especially likely to be true if we weight our counts of men by how many times they donate (as we should). These men will also be particularly likely to lie in order to get their sperm into as many women as possible.

    So, basically, if you use a sperm bank, Ted Cruz will be the baby’s father.

  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve always wondered what kind of man would become a sperm donor. I mean, what kind of man is comfortable allowing a child of his child to be raised someone he knows nothing about. Ideally, I would always want to make sure that any children of mine are raised by someone I hold in the highest esteem. To have such a lack of regard for the well-being of one’s child seems cold and almost pathological.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Anonymous

    Same - hence thinking sperm donors shouldn't be self-selected.

  66. @Alice
    @SFG

    No, I'm not sympathetic to families that use donors.

    Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you've done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don't murder or steal, don't sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.

    Mirabile dictu! You do these things prevent you from needing schizophrenic sperm donors, prevent you from aborting your own offspring when you are young and healthy enough to have babies, prevent you from shacking up with some idiot who rapes or murders your children while you go find a new honey, prevents you from wasting your money gambling, drinking, whoring, stops you from taking out nondoc loans for homes 7 times your earnings, etc. Etc. Etc.

    To this issue of lesbian eugenics: who except a) the most vain, narcissistic, stupid men who can't work out the possible inplications of random multiple daddyhood to their future emotional or financial well-being would donate aperm? Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis. But I'm sure that's profiling.

    Replies: @Bill, @Daniel H, @stillCARealist, @Wilkey, @Former Darfur

    I remember that world.

  67. It would seem that Xytex, and perhaps other sperm firms, may have sold lots of women on a Haven Monahan donor.

  68. @Big Bill
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    Good question. There is a fundamental tension between the sperm donor laws and common law rights and duties of parenthood.

    The common law in most states says that if you make a baby you are responsible for it. Further, the courts will not honor a contract between a father and mother that attempts to change this. In other words, if you "donate" sperm to some woman who knows you, the court can compel her to identify you and force you to support your child. Heck, she may WANT to do this if her kid gets sick and her lesbian lover dumps her. The court will not respect any contract you two have that attempts to absolve you of parental responsibility, as "against public policy".

    This is where the sperm donation laws come in. Most states have passed some version of the UPA (Uniform Parentage Act). The UPA says (1) as long as the woman's doctor is a sperm-go-between and sperm injector, and (2) the donor signs a sperm release, and (3) the woman's husband signs a contract to be the child's legal father, then sperm donations are legal.

    The UPA is designed to create a pretend family with pretend parents so the donor can never be identified and the kid will always have a mom and dad.

    The doctor functions as a legal barrier and legal fiction to prevent the state courts from finding out who the real father is (and forcing the real father to support the child). How so? The courts cannot force a woman's "doctor" to testify about her "treatment" under the doctor-patient privilege of secrecy. And since SHE never knew your name, she can't sue you even if she wanted to.

    [I use scare quotes because the woman has no disease for which she required medical treatment. She is perfectly healthy. Any idiot can use a turkey baster or a penis to inject sperm into a vagina ... as lesbians know.]

    The function of the waivers signed by the real father and the fake father assuaged the state legislators' public policy concerns back in the 60s and 70s that every child has both a mother and father.

    Lesbians and single gals have long fought to weaken/modify the UPA. Some states, for example, do not require a replacement father.

    The UPA does NOT make EVERY donor insemination legal. Lots of lesbians bypass the UPA rules, cut out the doctor, buy their own sperm (or get it from friends) and use a turkey baster.

    So what's the big deal for a donor, you ask? : You can donate sperm to a sperm lab, sign the requisite sperm release and still be the legal dad. If anyone screws up on the UPA paperwork, if your identity leaks out, if the recipient doesn't use a doctor, etc., you are still the legal father.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Not so much the ‘identity’ leaking out.

    But, on second thoughts, considering the inheritance of personality………

  69. @Sean

    http://evp.sagepub.com/content/12/4/147470491401200406.short We compared male and female 2D:4D ratios to female parliamentary representation, labor force participation, female education level, maternal mortality rates, and juvenile pregnancy rates per nation in a sample of 29 countries. We found those nations who showed higher than expected female fetal exposure to testosterone (low 2D:4D) and lower than expected male exposure to fetal testosterone (high 2D:4D) had higher rates of female parliamentary representation, and higher female labor force participation. In short, the more similar the two sexes were in 2D:4D, the more equal were the two sexes in parliamentary and labor force participation. The other variables were not as strongly correlated. We suggest that higher than expected fetal testosterone in females and lower fetal testosterone in males may lead to high female representation in the national labor force and in parliament
     
    Digit ratio in Denmak is the highest (ie most feminine) in the world. In Denmark homosexuality was legalised in 1933, the age of consent is 15, and it was the first country to legalize same sex unions. In a 1988 survey from Denmark, 625 women were asked if they had had any homosexual experiences. Only one said yes

    http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/who-pays-piper-for-arterial-stiffness.html?showComment=1264797930587#c1078591714917520700

    ...The subject is interesting as my wife attended a seminar on Wednesday about androgen failure in the development of all sorts of things from hypospadia to low sperm count. Low sperm count was the researcher's main topic. This correlates directly with degree of westernisation in a given country and the effect occurs in the first few weeks of foetal life. In Denmark one in 8 children is born to couples where medical assistance is needed due to low male sperm count. The chap is convinced it is not oestrogens doing it, but doesn't know what is.
     

    Anyway, I think Danish fathered women may be on average genetically less likely to be lesbians.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Denmark was also the first nation on earth to legalize hard core pornography.

    San Fernando in this context, at least, is a ‘Johnny come lately’.

  70. @SPMoore8
    @whahae

    Schizophrenia is not that highly heritable, moreover that doesn't appear to be why they are suing.

    What's going on here is two ladies are suing Dad because he's not what they wanted. By extension, the are publicly indicating displeasure with their child.

    "Mommy, who's my Daddy?"

    "Pedro Martinez Some crazy bum, technically, schizophrenic. He's also a loser and a liar."

    "Am I going to grow up to be a scissormania loser liar?"

    "You might. That's why we sued the sperm bank. We believe that parents are entitled to the child they paid for. Basically, we didn't want you the way you are."

    Replies: @NOTA

    I can see how the legal battle would be rough on the kid, but it sure seems like a pretty straightforward kind of fraud or negligence case against a business, to me. You sold me goods with some assurances about them that you knew or should have known were false. It would be a better world if sperm banks were careful to honestly describe their donors. Given the privacy issues here, probably there should be some kind of regulation ensuring that the descriptions are accurate.

    Large scale use of sperm donors with accurate description is probably a small eugenic force in the world, making the world a slightly better place and hurting nobody.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @NOTA

    "You sold me goods" - I don't think we are ever going to agree so long as a human life is considered "goods" or a child is told that it is a "fraud". Whatever possible "eugenic" or "contractual" benefit or violation, the graceful thing and the morally appropriate thing is to notify the authorities discreetly and just get back to raising the Gift of God that you got.

  71. @SFG
    @whorefinder

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you'd be sympathetic.

    I'm not saying militant lesbians don't create huge problems with feminism--the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I'm seriously considering never marrying. But this ain't that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we're hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    Replies: @Thea, @Alice, @ScarletNumber, @Big Bill, @whorefinder, @Olorin

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    They fell for a rather obvious scam (“this guy is a genius who’s also musically talented and fits your partner’s description! he’s perfect”) because they wanted children for political reasons (“prove us gays are great parents! and give us gays some more kids to molest!”) while living in a household of two mentally unstable folk.

    This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we’re hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    It’s fairly obvious sperm banks just scams on rich but susceptible lesbians/feminists (“have your own perfect baby, no man required!”). You walk in and suddenly there’s this raft of sperm from tall, intelligent, handsome, accomplished, multi-talented, rich, totally-not-mentally-diseased men of every race just waiting to impregnate you and never know their offspring? Riiiight. It’s pretty unbelievable. But women fall for it, because it flatters their fancy and fulfills their fantasy that they are great—because they are having great men’s offspirng.

    Scam banks. like this one are coming to to the forefront—like that scam High IQ sperm bank in California in the last few years. Like hate crime hoaxes, there are more scams than actual decent ones.

    Lesbians, however, are more susceptible than straight feminists. A straight feminist usually have a male partner or gay male friend whose sperm could be used—then it’s a known quantity, and it’s about fertility treatment. Lesbians, with all their man hating, want a lot of anonymity from the father, unless he’s a celebrity (David Crosby and Melissa Etheridge come to mind). So a sperm bank seems ideal to the addled mind of a Lesbian—a perfect mark audience.

  72. @NOTA
    @SPMoore8

    I can see how the legal battle would be rough on the kid, but it sure seems like a pretty straightforward kind of fraud or negligence case against a business, to me. You sold me goods with some assurances about them that you knew or should have known were false. It would be a better world if sperm banks were careful to honestly describe their donors. Given the privacy issues here, probably there should be some kind of regulation ensuring that the descriptions are accurate.

    Large scale use of sperm donors with accurate description is probably a small eugenic force in the world, making the world a slightly better place and hurting nobody.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    “You sold me goods” – I don’t think we are ever going to agree so long as a human life is considered “goods” or a child is told that it is a “fraud”. Whatever possible “eugenic” or “contractual” benefit or violation, the graceful thing and the morally appropriate thing is to notify the authorities discreetly and just get back to raising the Gift of God that you got.

  73. In two years sadly the Pope will make gay marriage within the Church not only legal … but mandatory. Sorry Alice. I really am.

  74. @Corn
    I wonder if there's data on how many sperm bank customers seek out sperm from Nordic types or "blond haired, blue eyed" guys. I remember once reading online where a guy (fellow iSteve commenter maybe) once went to some sort of convention held for sperm donor kids or sperm recipient families. He said there were so many blond, blue eyed kids there it was like being in the Fourth Reich.

    Replies: @fish

    “He said there were so many blond, blue eyed kids there it was like being in the Fourth Reich.”

    That’s funny….I was sure that “tiny duck” and Troof said dat all the whites woman wanted teh black spunk.

  75. @Alice
    @SFG

    No, I'm not sympathetic to families that use donors.

    Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you've done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don't murder or steal, don't sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.

    Mirabile dictu! You do these things prevent you from needing schizophrenic sperm donors, prevent you from aborting your own offspring when you are young and healthy enough to have babies, prevent you from shacking up with some idiot who rapes or murders your children while you go find a new honey, prevents you from wasting your money gambling, drinking, whoring, stops you from taking out nondoc loans for homes 7 times your earnings, etc. Etc. Etc.

    To this issue of lesbian eugenics: who except a) the most vain, narcissistic, stupid men who can't work out the possible inplications of random multiple daddyhood to their future emotional or financial well-being would donate aperm? Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis. But I'm sure that's profiling.

    Replies: @Bill, @Daniel H, @stillCARealist, @Wilkey, @Former Darfur

    You said it well. I’m no Catholic, but I like the picture you paint an awful lot better than what we’ve got going on now.

    Back when I read the newspaper (the 80’s) the SF Chronicle always had articles about sperm donors, and they were heavily homosexual in number. I wonder why? Of course there were no details in the paper, probably too icky even for that printed trash.

  76. By my very rough calculation, to within an order of magnitude, about a million Americans were conceived via donor sperm, so the seemingly comic question of quality control in the sperm bank industry is actually important.

    Overall their quality is probably at least as good or better than the general population, though, even with frauds like this considered.

    I do wonder what percent of women who use sperm donors are lesbians? They would be a good sample to examine to check the true heritability of female homosexuality.

  77. “Some Internet research revealed to Collins that her baby’s father was in reality a man, James Aggeles, who suffered from schizophrenia, narcissistic personality disorder and other mental illnesses.”

    So everything worked out okay in the end. A perfect fit for a lesbian who wants to have children.

    • Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life
    @Mr. Anon

    Bless you sir. We share similar thoughts. I was just going to ask if you were the father. So now that another person, ie a reporter who presumably got that info from a professional head shrinker, states that NPD is a real thing, how does it feel to be human garbage?

    See the thing is I know this gets to you. You can't help you self any more than a schizophrenic can stop seeing visions in toast. Give me a response. Please.

    Steve please let this go past your mod filter. You must understand how much damage his ilk does to the people around them. In exchange I'll post a link about a cat that plays the piano or something. It was all the rage a few years back.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Jean Cocteausten
    @Mr. Anon

    I initially read this as "sarcastic personality disorder" and for a fleeting moment thought science had finally explained internet commenters.

  78. @Big Bill
    @SFG

    "Sympathetic"?

    Why on earth would anyone be sympathetic for the poor sperm choices women make?

    For aeons, women have gotten sperm donations from donors that are losers.

    They are pretty stupid about that.

    Any idiot who buys sperm-in-a-bag from a complete stranger deserves what they get.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Mr. Anon

    “Any idiot who buys sperm-in-a-bag from a complete stranger deserves what they get.”

    The idiot might deserve it, but the child doesn’t.

  79. @Anon7
    @Steve Sailer

    (My Dad was a Dane...) Yes, we're doing it again, but Trump-style.

    From 800-1000 or so, my Danish ancestors raided the British isles, raping for free, with just what you can get from pillaging monasteries and churches to support their sailing lifestyle.

    But now, the Danes are making British women PAY FOR IT.

    Replies: @Anon7, @Expletive Deleted

    And a happy St Brice’s Day (13 Nov) to thee, sirrah!

    • Replies: @Anon7
    @Expletive Deleted

    Yikes! (Or maybe gadzooks!) I'd never heard of that little incident. Since I'm here today, maybe my ancestors were smart enough to keep sailing... rather than settling in England.

  80. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as ‘Czechia’"

    Perhaps "Czechia" sounds pleasing to Slavic ears, but seriously, its not like "Czechland" was taken already. Bohemia-Moravia is too clunky; everyone would just call the place "Bohemia" (like they already refer to Bosnia-Herzegovina as "Bosnia").

    On the plus side of the ledger, "the Czech Republic" is a terrible name.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Old Palo Altan, @anon

    “On the plus side of the ledger, “the Czech Republic” is a terrible name.”

    To my ear it sounds better than “Czechia”, which sounds uncomfortably to close to “Chechnia”. Although if Czechia confuses State Department officials into letting Czechs immigrate in place of Chechens, then it will have been worth it.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Mr. Anon

    Czechland is perfectly good and historic but it sounds too Germanic for the Czechs.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  81. In that Washington Post story, it is funny the lengths to which that white lesbian goes to avoid admitting that she just didn’t want a black child. However, I feel sorry for the little girl. She (the lesbian) should give her up for adoption. The daughter might at least then have some loving parents, rather than a mother who resents her.

  82. @Big Bill
    @SFG

    "Sympathetic"?

    Why on earth would anyone be sympathetic for the poor sperm choices women make?

    For aeons, women have gotten sperm donations from donors that are losers.

    They are pretty stupid about that.

    Any idiot who buys sperm-in-a-bag from a complete stranger deserves what they get.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Mr. Anon

    I agree.

  83. @Thea
    @SFG

    No, most would say adopt.

    Sperm banks are icky. Also They have a real problem with few quality donors. Like this gentleman, some men have dozens or hundreds of children. What happens if they meet & unknowingly have children?

    Replies: @Paul Mendez, @Hepp, @Stan d Mute

    Also They have a real problem with few quality donors.

    Dang, I wish I had known there was such demand for sperm donors back when I was a teen! The HS guidance counselor kept telling me to find a job doing something I loved, but he never mentioned this particular career. I’d have been a millionaire.

  84. Surprisingly, Orthodox Jews demand non-Jewish sperm. Their rabbis reason that a child born of an anonymous Jewish donor might grow up to unknowingly marry his sibling, which would be a grave sin. However, children of non-Jewish fathers are, for purposes of Jewish law, considered not to have a father, so even if they were to unknowingly marry a child of the same donor it would be no problem.

    Also, low sperm count is the reason for infertility among the Orthodox more often than among the general population, but the reason is that it is LESS often due to problems with the women, who do not sleep around before marriage and therefore suffer less damage due to STDs, pelvic inflammation, etc.

  85. OT:

    Not Norway, but the other day I noticed that King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands and Donald Trump bear a rather striking resemblance to one another.

    https://royal-confessions.tumblr.com/post/128476369565/king-willem-alexander-looks-like-donald-trump

  86. Sperm donor. Not a bad way to make money, when you think about it. It should be obvious to the whole world (even lesbians) that there is ample opportunity for deception and general weirdness there…

    True weird story (don’t ask): I was on a first and only date with a woman I’d met at a jazz bar. We’re drinking and listening to more music at another jazz bar. The usual exchange of bios plus banter. Then she pulled out a few pages of paper.

    “These are the sperm donors I’m considering for having a baby,” she said.

    “Oh, that’s interesting,” I reply.

    She explained that she was thinking about having a child, even though she had no man in her life.

    I began wondering about the purpose of our date…

    “Here is the one I think I will use,” she said as she pointed to one line on the list.

    “Look. He’s an Ivy League graduate, plus he’s a national champion in (blank) Olympic sport.”

    (Out of respect for that jack-off specialist’s privacy, I will leave out the rather esoteric sport he was good at. Suffice it to say, he really could paddle his boat.)

    I nodded and said something witty, which I am exceedingly good at.

    Our date played out, and I made sure we both went home our separate ways. I don’t know if my weirdo date followed through or not. This was almost three decades ago.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @Buzz Mohawk

    How old was she at the time?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  87. @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their “blond hair and blue eyes”?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don’t think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ….” In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn’t include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn’t resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels … and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I’m Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @TheJester

    "Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their “blond hair and blue eyes”?"

    I suspect if you took a picture of a group of 50 random Germans today (average age: 45) it would look considerably less blonde than one taken 50 years ago, when Germans were still bothering to have children.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one

    , @Anonymous Nephew
    @TheJester

    "I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels … and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy"

    The very top end of Italy - the Alto Adige or Sud Tirol - is German-speaking and ethnically Austrian. Italy was awarded it for being on the winning side in WWI.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino-Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol

    , @PV van der Byl
    @TheJester

    It sounds like you were in southwestern Germany, perhaps Baden-Wurttemberg.

    I think you would have seen a lot of blondes had you been living in Schleswig-Holstein.

    That was my experience over 40 years ago.

    Prevalence of blonde hair in Germany follows a north-south cline.

    Replies: @TheJester

    , @BB753
    @TheJester

    Guess what? Adult blondism is rare everywhere outside Finland. Most of Germany lies in Central Europe. So you're likely to find blue, green, mixed or brown eyes in about the same proportion (each shade a quarter of the population). A minority of Bavarians might pass for Mediterraneans, while Northern Germans look more Nordic, as expected.
    Though the average German is taller than the average Frenchman.

    , @Jefferson
    @TheJester

    "We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany."

    You rarely saw blonde German adults and rarely saw blue eyed German adults? So the overwhelming majority of German adults have the same eye color and hair color as Antonio Banderas? Bullshit.

    If that were true why don't most German Americans in the Midwest have Mediterranean looking phenotypes?

    If Germans are so dark like you claim, how come people can tell Germans apart from Syrian and Iraqi refugees just on phenotype alone?

    , @Jefferson
    @TheJester

    "I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels … and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy"

    Blond hair is more common in Northern Italy than in Southern Italy, but that is not a high bar as most of Europe is blonder than Southern Italy. Still Northern Italy is no blondtopia, Northern Italians on average look similar to Frenchmen, not Nordic Northern Euros.

    So I take your claim that Northern Italy is blonder than Germany as a big fat lie.

    Germany produces more Donald Trump like phenotypes than Northern Italy.

  88. @SPMoore8
    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you’d be sympathetic.

    The only person who deserves sympathy is the child, who was created by the vanity of the parents.

    To sue the sperm bank because the outcome (so to speak) was not what you were paying for is to place a shameful burden on that child -- that human being -- for the rest of its life.

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes or anything like that but because the donor in this case didn't have the IQ they sought and didn't have the advanced degrees that they sought.

    I don't want to go off on this, but, again, the only person who deserves consideration right now is that child. The parents can wait, because that's what parents are supposed to do: gay, lesbian or straight.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @whahae, @dumpstersquirrel, @AnotherDad

    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes …

    Mr. Moore, this is a particularly ridiculous comment on an HBD blog.

    There isn’t some magic binary “defective gene” thingy, other than flat out mutations which don’t build the protein they are suppose to. What we have is genes. I have all sorts of them–pretty good ones in the net–but not necessarily the ones someone wants. If the gals were promised someone blue eyed, blond haired and 6’2″ … then my genes relative to that are in fact “defective”.

    Just for starters these gals thought they were getting a guy who was “well adjusted”, who had the IQ and the “get-my-shit-together”ness to get a couple of technical degrees. They are getting someone without that high IQ, who is a bum a screwup and mentally ill. That’s is clearly–for anyone with a clue–definitely the product of a wildly different package of genes. A package which most middle class people would in fact call “defective”. He’s a screwup at normal middle class life skills for modern industrial society. And their kid is much more likely to be a screwup as well–inheriting all the pain that comes with that, while the lesbo parents get all the parental pain that comes with dealing with that.

    I’m generally hostile to single motherhood period–they are parasites on civilization. I’d be more than happy to tell these lesbians–no baby for you; if you want one, get a husband. But were these “gals” defrauded–yes.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @AnotherDad

    I was thinking of defective genes in the sense of something that would lead to Tay Sachs, Cystic Fibrosis, or Huntington's Chorea.

    Bottom line, they wanted a child, they got one, they should be thinking of the child, not themselves.

    Bottom line: were they defrauded? Sure. But don't take it out on the kid.

  89. @AnotherDad
    @SPMoore8


    It is especially egregious in a case like this because the only reason why the bank is being sued is not because of defective genes ...
     
    Mr. Moore, this is a particularly ridiculous comment on an HBD blog.

    There isn't some magic binary "defective gene" thingy, other than flat out mutations which don't build the protein they are suppose to. What we have is genes. I have all sorts of them--pretty good ones in the net--but not necessarily the ones someone wants. If the gals were promised someone blue eyed, blond haired and 6'2" ... then my genes relative to that are in fact "defective".

    Just for starters these gals thought they were getting a guy who was "well adjusted", who had the IQ and the "get-my-shit-together"ness to get a couple of technical degrees. They are getting someone without that high IQ, who is a bum a screwup and mentally ill. That's is clearly--for anyone with a clue--definitely the product of a wildly different package of genes. A package which most middle class people would in fact call "defective". He's a screwup at normal middle class life skills for modern industrial society. And their kid is much more likely to be a screwup as well--inheriting all the pain that comes with that, while the lesbo parents get all the parental pain that comes with dealing with that.

    I'm generally hostile to single motherhood period--they are parasites on civilization. I'd be more than happy to tell these lesbians--no baby for you; if you want one, get a husband. But were these "gals" defrauded--yes.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    I was thinking of defective genes in the sense of something that would lead to Tay Sachs, Cystic Fibrosis, or Huntington’s Chorea.

    Bottom line, they wanted a child, they got one, they should be thinking of the child, not themselves.

    Bottom line: were they defrauded? Sure. But don’t take it out on the kid.

  90. This is just a variant of the reality faced by adoptive families.

    As an adoptee with three biological kids, experience suggests that adoption creates something entirely different from a biological family. Most people don’t grasp this.

    Two lesbians plus a sperm donor does not a biological family make. These so-called families will turn out to be stuffed with downstream serious problems as the “kids” confront questions about identify that have no possible answers. Of this I am certain, and adding in heritable disease and dysfunctional behavior just amplifies the coming catastrophe.

    Follow these people and see what their suicide rates are. Multiples of the norm are certain.

    Homosexuality is maladaptive. Enabling it is like enabling heroin addiction.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @dc.sunsets

    I agree with much of what you say here. I don't want to disparage infertile couples, but a child has a right to know where they came from, and should feel that their existence is both necessary and unquestionable. Grownups need that too.

    Of course it's quite possible that a particular mate or a particular batch of genetic material will yield a "substandard" specimen, at least by "objective" measures of performance, achievement, and miles per gallon. But even the "best" genetic materials generate outliers. Moreover, any ideology of genetic determinism is much more "Brave New World" than anything SJW's can cook up.

    Again, my sympathies are with this child. Not feeling a lot of love for it here.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @dc.sunsets, @Marina

  91. @Alice
    @SFG

    No, I'm not sympathetic to families that use donors.

    Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you've done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don't murder or steal, don't sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.

    Mirabile dictu! You do these things prevent you from needing schizophrenic sperm donors, prevent you from aborting your own offspring when you are young and healthy enough to have babies, prevent you from shacking up with some idiot who rapes or murders your children while you go find a new honey, prevents you from wasting your money gambling, drinking, whoring, stops you from taking out nondoc loans for homes 7 times your earnings, etc. Etc. Etc.

    To this issue of lesbian eugenics: who except a) the most vain, narcissistic, stupid men who can't work out the possible inplications of random multiple daddyhood to their future emotional or financial well-being would donate aperm? Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis. But I'm sure that's profiling.

    Replies: @Bill, @Daniel H, @stillCARealist, @Wilkey, @Former Darfur

    “Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you’ve done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don’t murder or steal, don’t sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.”

    …and then let your country get invaded anyway by billions of foreign barbarians who grope your daughters on the street and force their women to parade around in trash bags.

    Gee, if only we all followed the teachings of the Catholic Church.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @Wilkey

    ...that Church---not the namby pamby Vatican II, Jewish-and-gay converged thing that exists today---prevented wholesale invasions of the West and Reconquered vast swaths of land the Muslims took from Christians.

    You might have heard of the Crusades, the Reconquista, and the Mediterraean wars against the Turks a bit differently. Consider your sources.

  92. @TheJester
    @Steve Sailer

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their "blond hair and blue eyes"?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don't think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ...." In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn't include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn't resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels ... and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I'm Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous Nephew, @PV van der Byl, @BB753, @Jefferson, @Jefferson

    “Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their “blond hair and blue eyes”?”

    I suspect if you took a picture of a group of 50 random Germans today (average age: 45) it would look considerably less blonde than one taken 50 years ago, when Germans were still bothering to have children.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @Wilkey

    I am reminded that Hitler had black hair, but I guess he was Austrian, at least by birth (just.)

  93. @Jaakko Raipala
    @Steve Sailer

    British newspapers have of course beaten everyone else to the story.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-want-viking-baby-single-5037149

    "The Danes are superior race and I want my child to be a part of that race."

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    “The Danes are superior race and I want my child to be a part of that race.”

    Not a ridiculous thought. The Scandinavians generally seem to have their stuff together … other than the abject insanity of letting non-Scandinavians in to loot and screwup their countries. (A pretty darn big “other than”.) Still far, far, far better than all these British women getting knocked up by their societies detritus, now even pumping out half-caste bastards.

    However, she’s still a parasite on her nation. This intentional single-motherhood is pox on civilization.

    The premise of pretty much everything–our prosperity, self-government, freedom–depends on *men* going out and doing productive labor to provide for their families. (I realize lots of women have jobs, even “careers”, some of them important like nursing or teaching. But the core work that actually creates the super-prosperous society we live in–farming, engineering, mining, energy extraction, refining, power production, building, IT–is done by men.) Our social welfare provision essentially works with the assumption that most people are taking care of themselves–most children provided for by dad+mom–and that we can tax productive men to smooth and socialize the provision of some services–education, medical care, etc.

    Single-momhood is just a broadside into this society’s boat. It’s creating children who won’t be provided for and looked after by a productive father. 90% of the time, the mom won’t be a net tax contributor, she, her kid will be in the net parasitic on the public tough, even if they aren’t directly welfare cases. (And the other 10% are mostly cases of b.s. jobs which the government or its regulation or some quirk in the market have caused to exist and be well paid, not something materially productive.)

    Responsible men need to find a way to either *end* this system, or extract their labor from this system and let it crash and burn. Again … “separate societies”. I don’t wish to support–don’t wish my son to have to support–civilization destroying single momhood. And shouldn’t be compelled to do it.

    • Replies: @TheJester
    @AnotherDad


    Responsible men need to find a way to either *end* this system, or extract their labor from this system and let it crash and burn. Again … “separate societies”. I don’t wish to support–don’t wish my son to have to support–civilization destroying single momhood. And shouldn’t be compelled to do it.
     
    My thoughts are running in a similar direction.

    It is no accident that socially deviant lifestyle communities uniquely exist in North America and the EU and that economic immigrants from alien cultures are flocking to both by the millions. The social deviants and immigrants all live "in the shadow" of the most productive, innovative, and wealthiest civilization that has ever existed ... created by Western men with traditional families in traditional relationships. There are social and economic carrying costs for deviant lifestyles and massive immigration of peoples from alien cultures -- affirmative action, quota systems, generous and apparently permanent welfare benefits, etc. They flock to and/or claim the right to exist in this "shadow" because, to date, the "shadow" could afford and was willing to pay the carrying costs. Notice that socially deviant lifestyles and massive immigration are not tolerated in less affluent countries and continents ... not for a moment for good reasons.

    Let me suggest that it become common practice to refer to these peoples as "shadow dwellers" to make clear that they are "takers" who do not contribute to the commonwealth and the common good. Perhaps this terminology will also highlight the fact that social deviants and welfare immigrants now exist in such large numbers that they are quickly cashing out our society and civilization. This won't last for long because it can't last for long. The EU and the United States are both close to bankruptcy.

    Replies: @Jack D

  94. @dc.sunsets
    This is just a variant of the reality faced by adoptive families.

    As an adoptee with three biological kids, experience suggests that adoption creates something entirely different from a biological family. Most people don't grasp this.

    Two lesbians plus a sperm donor does not a biological family make. These so-called families will turn out to be stuffed with downstream serious problems as the "kids" confront questions about identify that have no possible answers. Of this I am certain, and adding in heritable disease and dysfunctional behavior just amplifies the coming catastrophe.

    Follow these people and see what their suicide rates are. Multiples of the norm are certain.

    Homosexuality is maladaptive. Enabling it is like enabling heroin addiction.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    I agree with much of what you say here. I don’t want to disparage infertile couples, but a child has a right to know where they came from, and should feel that their existence is both necessary and unquestionable. Grownups need that too.

    Of course it’s quite possible that a particular mate or a particular batch of genetic material will yield a “substandard” specimen, at least by “objective” measures of performance, achievement, and miles per gallon. But even the “best” genetic materials generate outliers. Moreover, any ideology of genetic determinism is much more “Brave New World” than anything SJW’s can cook up.

    Again, my sympathies are with this child. Not feeling a lot of love for it here.

    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    @SPMoore8


    but a child has a right to know where they came from, and should feel that their existence is both necessary and unquestionable. Grownups need that too.
     
    True, but from experience happy endings are found in fairly tales.

    An adoptee is forever neither fish nor fowl.
    , @dc.sunsets
    @SPMoore8

    The child of these lesbians will pick at his or her differences with mommy like an itchy scab. The origin story will likely place his or her life in shadow.

    Origin stories often do. Sadly, age and wisdom don't necessarily settle these perturbations.

    , @Marina
    @SPMoore8

    I'm donor conceived (happily married parents, sterile father). The enormity of this came crashing down on me when I was pregnant with my daughter and I realized she would grow up with something I never had: a father and siblings fully related to me. I see her now, and she has my husband's personality in so many ways, and I'm so glad she lives with someone who understands her. There are huge parts of my personality that I share with neither my biological mother, nor my social father, and it was very lonely growing up. I want the practice banned entirely.

    Replies: @Bill P

  95. @Mr. Anon
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    "On the plus side of the ledger, “the Czech Republic” is a terrible name."

    To my ear it sounds better than "Czechia", which sounds uncomfortably to close to "Chechnia". Although if Czechia confuses State Department officials into letting Czechs immigrate in place of Chechens, then it will have been worth it.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Czechland is perfectly good and historic but it sounds too Germanic for the Czechs.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D

    "Czechland is perfectly good and historic."

    I don't see how. "Land" isn't a czech word.

    Replies: @Jack D

  96. @TheJester
    @Steve Sailer

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their "blond hair and blue eyes"?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don't think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ...." In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn't include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn't resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels ... and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I'm Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous Nephew, @PV van der Byl, @BB753, @Jefferson, @Jefferson

    “I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels … and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy”

    The very top end of Italy – the Alto Adige or Sud Tirol – is German-speaking and ethnically Austrian. Italy was awarded it for being on the winning side in WWI.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino-Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol

  97. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Sorry, but this reminds me of an hilarious headline from a UK gutter press Sunday tabloid of quite a few years ago.

    The story was the the police had raided and closed down an 'illegal sperm trading business'.

    The immortal tabloid headline splashed(!) all over the paper was 'DIXON OF COCK CREAM'.

    To an America, or indeed to any Brit or non Brit younger than 50 I realise that the pun is impossible.

    Well anyway, the TV cop show starring the late Jack Warner (definitely not crooked or Fifa) ,was 'Dixon of Dock Green' a spin off 1948's 'Blue Lamp' starring the aforementioned Warner and Dirk Bogarde.
    Another factoid, Jack Warner played PC Dixon right into his 70s. UK police are mandated to retire before 60.

    Replies: @martin_2

    Into his eighties, I believe.

  98. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Wilkey
    @TheJester

    "Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their “blond hair and blue eyes”?"

    I suspect if you took a picture of a group of 50 random Germans today (average age: 45) it would look considerably less blonde than one taken 50 years ago, when Germans were still bothering to have children.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one

    I am reminded that Hitler had black hair, but I guess he was Austrian, at least by birth (just.)

  99. @Jack D
    @Mr. Anon

    Czechland is perfectly good and historic but it sounds too Germanic for the Czechs.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Czechland is perfectly good and historic.”

    I don’t see how. “Land” isn’t a czech word.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Mr. Anon

    For much of history, the educated classes of the Czech lands (BTW "Bohemia and Moravia" would be another accurate name) spoke German. Kafka lived in Prague all his life and wrote in German. It was not uncommon in European countries (especially in the east) for the elite to speak a different language than the local peasants. Sometimes the local language didn't even exist as a written language until fairly recently. With the rise of nationalism and democracy (there were a lot more peasants than elites), it became a point of pride for everyone to speak and write in the local peasant language.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

  100. Giving the donors IQ tests and psych batteries wouldn’t take that long, or cost that much. God forbid the agencies provide some added value.

    The common law in most states says that if you make a baby you are responsible for it.

    The common law is full of it, of course. There is no responsibility without ownership. Fathers have no ownership. The mother has it all during the crucial stages. She decides if the pregnancy goes to term, or is cut short via infanticide. She decides if the baby comes home, or gets adopted. As long as this is the case, the father has only a fraction of the responsibility, after the fact.

    The “child comes first” refrain is nonsense, too. The state is fine with the child being fricasseed in the womb. The child’s welfare is obviously of no concern to the state, per se.

    However, children of non-Jewish fathers are, for purposes of Jewish law, considered not to have a father, so even if they were to unknowingly marry a child of the same donor it would be no problem.

    So, according to Jewish law, all goyim are bastards?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Svigor

    Jewish law concerns itself only with the religious status of Jewish children. As for children who are entirely not Jewish, the rabbinical courts have no jurisdiction and nothing to say about their status as bastards or not - get your own canon law.

  101. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as ‘Czechia’"

    Perhaps "Czechia" sounds pleasing to Slavic ears, but seriously, its not like "Czechland" was taken already. Bohemia-Moravia is too clunky; everyone would just call the place "Bohemia" (like they already refer to Bosnia-Herzegovina as "Bosnia").

    On the plus side of the ledger, "the Czech Republic" is a terrible name.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Old Palo Altan, @anon

    I have a suggestion:
    Someone should persuade the Prince of Liechtenstein to buy it and name it after his family, as his ancestor did with the two counties of Schellenberg and Vaduz in the early 18th Century.
    This probably wouldn’t seriously deplete the family bank balance and would also neatly solve the longstanding legal dispute about the return of the confiscated Liechtenstein properties in Moravia.

  102. @dumpstersquirrel
    @whahae

    "Schizophrenia is highly hereditary."

    And highly correlated with drug use. Anyone with schizos in his family should resolve early on to never touch meth or booze. In fact, every schizo I've known has been a drug/booze addict, no exceptions.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @Jack D

    Wikipedia on genetic causes of :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Genetic
    I , I.f.f.U., have 2 sisters, 2 half-sisters, one half-brother, a bunch of blood relatives: aunts and uncles, cousins (about 20, some are nowadays deceased), about 9 first-order nephews and nieces, their kids and their grand-kids, my late parents and grandparents. None of them had (has) schizophrenia.
    One particular nephew: one of the two sons of my sister and her husband, at age about 30 developed schizophrenia. Before that he got married, produced daughter, got Ph.D. in the theory of elementary particles. He is still employed in that line of work, and his technical results, may be not super-outstanding, but are still published with some regularity. He is divorced. His daughter and his grand-daughter seem to be OK, at least with respect to mental health.
    *
    Where schizophrenia came from ?
    God, if You are there, please have mercy.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  103. @Buzz Mohawk
    Sperm donor. Not a bad way to make money, when you think about it. It should be obvious to the whole world (even lesbians) that there is ample opportunity for deception and general weirdness there...

    True weird story (don't ask): I was on a first and only date with a woman I'd met at a jazz bar. We're drinking and listening to more music at another jazz bar. The usual exchange of bios plus banter. Then she pulled out a few pages of paper.

    "These are the sperm donors I'm considering for having a baby," she said.

    "Oh, that's interesting," I reply.

    She explained that she was thinking about having a child, even though she had no man in her life.

    I began wondering about the purpose of our date...

    "Here is the one I think I will use," she said as she pointed to one line on the list.

    "Look. He's an Ivy League graduate, plus he's a national champion in (blank) Olympic sport."

    (Out of respect for that jack-off specialist's privacy, I will leave out the rather esoteric sport he was good at. Suffice it to say, he really could paddle his boat.)

    I nodded and said something witty, which I am exceedingly good at.

    Our date played out, and I made sure we both went home our separate ways. I don't know if my weirdo date followed through or not. This was almost three decades ago.

    Replies: @Flip

    How old was she at the time?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Flip

    Flip, I wouldn't want to divulge information about anyone's possible mother (or father), in case you're searching... but she was safely in the middle of ripe breeding age. Hence my instinctively wanting to go out with her.

    I couldn't see any reason for her to be in a hurry.

  104. @Wilkey
    @Alice

    "Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you’ve done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don’t murder or steal, don’t sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church."

    ...and then let your country get invaded anyway by billions of foreign barbarians who grope your daughters on the street and force their women to parade around in trash bags.

    Gee, if only we all followed the teachings of the Catholic Church.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    …that Church—not the namby pamby Vatican II, Jewish-and-gay converged thing that exists today—prevented wholesale invasions of the West and Reconquered vast swaths of land the Muslims took from Christians.

    You might have heard of the Crusades, the Reconquista, and the Mediterraean wars against the Turks a bit differently. Consider your sources.

  105. @TheJester
    @Steve Sailer

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their "blond hair and blue eyes"?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don't think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ...." In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn't include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn't resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels ... and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I'm Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous Nephew, @PV van der Byl, @BB753, @Jefferson, @Jefferson

    It sounds like you were in southwestern Germany, perhaps Baden-Wurttemberg.

    I think you would have seen a lot of blondes had you been living in Schleswig-Holstein.

    That was my experience over 40 years ago.

    Prevalence of blonde hair in Germany follows a north-south cline.

    • Replies: @TheJester
    @PV van der Byl

    Your geography is very good :-) It wasn't Baden-Wurttemberg but Rheinland-Pfalz right next door.

    I intentionally mentioned "Germanics" as a whole with respect to the blond haired/blue eyed stereotype since Aryan ideology seemed to assume that the Germanic "Master Race" (which included the Scandinavians, Germans, and the Anglo-Saxons) was blond and blue eyed. Ironically, in raw numbers that could not have been the Germans. One would have to look elsewhere.

    However, from comments back, that might have been the Danes or Finns (I'm less traveled in Denmark and have never been to Finland) ... hence, the feedback is consistent with Denmark as the "capital" for sperm donors for lesbians wanting their offspring to inherit the genes of the Master Race. As heresy, the point is that Germans, historically the "Gauleiters" of the Master Race, need not apply.

  106. @TheJester
    @Steve Sailer

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their "blond hair and blue eyes"?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don't think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ...." In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn't include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn't resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels ... and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I'm Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous Nephew, @PV van der Byl, @BB753, @Jefferson, @Jefferson

    Guess what? Adult blondism is rare everywhere outside Finland. Most of Germany lies in Central Europe. So you’re likely to find blue, green, mixed or brown eyes in about the same proportion (each shade a quarter of the population). A minority of Bavarians might pass for Mediterraneans, while Northern Germans look more Nordic, as expected.
    Though the average German is taller than the average Frenchman.

  107. @Flip
    @Buzz Mohawk

    How old was she at the time?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Flip, I wouldn’t want to divulge information about anyone’s possible mother (or father), in case you’re searching… but she was safely in the middle of ripe breeding age. Hence my instinctively wanting to go out with her.

    I couldn’t see any reason for her to be in a hurry.

  108. @ikram
    @SPMoore8

    Gretchen couldn't tell mustafa was impotent until six months passed? The joke here is that Germans don't engage in regular sex?

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous

    Mustafa probably got snipped, after trying to feed and clothe all those kids, and got a free ride for a while. He coulda asked for grocery money, too. Coming soon to German TV.

  109. @Mr. Anon
    "Some Internet research revealed to Collins that her baby’s father was in reality a man, James Aggeles, who suffered from schizophrenia, narcissistic personality disorder and other mental illnesses."

    So everything worked out okay in the end. A perfect fit for a lesbian who wants to have children.

    Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Jean Cocteausten

    Bless you sir. We share similar thoughts. I was just going to ask if you were the father. So now that another person, ie a reporter who presumably got that info from a professional head shrinker, states that NPD is a real thing, how does it feel to be human garbage?

    See the thing is I know this gets to you. You can’t help you self any more than a schizophrenic can stop seeing visions in toast. Give me a response. Please.

    Steve please let this go past your mod filter. You must understand how much damage his ilk does to the people around them. In exchange I’ll post a link about a cat that plays the piano or something. It was all the rage a few years back.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Sailer has an interesting life

    I guess I once said something that deeply offended you. I don't remember it - you are not worth remembering - but apparently it was a life-changing experience for you.

    Please indulge your insanity and paranoia elsewhere. There are people here who have interesting things to say. You are not one of them.

  110. @Svigor
    Giving the donors IQ tests and psych batteries wouldn't take that long, or cost that much. God forbid the agencies provide some added value.

    The common law in most states says that if you make a baby you are responsible for it.
     
    The common law is full of it, of course. There is no responsibility without ownership. Fathers have no ownership. The mother has it all during the crucial stages. She decides if the pregnancy goes to term, or is cut short via infanticide. She decides if the baby comes home, or gets adopted. As long as this is the case, the father has only a fraction of the responsibility, after the fact.

    The "child comes first" refrain is nonsense, too. The state is fine with the child being fricasseed in the womb. The child's welfare is obviously of no concern to the state, per se.

    However, children of non-Jewish fathers are, for purposes of Jewish law, considered not to have a father, so even if they were to unknowingly marry a child of the same donor it would be no problem.
     
    So, according to Jewish law, all goyim are bastards?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Jewish law concerns itself only with the religious status of Jewish children. As for children who are entirely not Jewish, the rabbinical courts have no jurisdiction and nothing to say about their status as bastards or not – get your own canon law.

  111. @SPMoore8
    @dc.sunsets

    I agree with much of what you say here. I don't want to disparage infertile couples, but a child has a right to know where they came from, and should feel that their existence is both necessary and unquestionable. Grownups need that too.

    Of course it's quite possible that a particular mate or a particular batch of genetic material will yield a "substandard" specimen, at least by "objective" measures of performance, achievement, and miles per gallon. But even the "best" genetic materials generate outliers. Moreover, any ideology of genetic determinism is much more "Brave New World" than anything SJW's can cook up.

    Again, my sympathies are with this child. Not feeling a lot of love for it here.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @dc.sunsets, @Marina

    but a child has a right to know where they came from, and should feel that their existence is both necessary and unquestionable. Grownups need that too.

    True, but from experience happy endings are found in fairly tales.

    An adoptee is forever neither fish nor fowl.

  112. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D

    "Czechland is perfectly good and historic."

    I don't see how. "Land" isn't a czech word.

    Replies: @Jack D

    For much of history, the educated classes of the Czech lands (BTW “Bohemia and Moravia” would be another accurate name) spoke German. Kafka lived in Prague all his life and wrote in German. It was not uncommon in European countries (especially in the east) for the elite to speak a different language than the local peasants. Sometimes the local language didn’t even exist as a written language until fairly recently. With the rise of nationalism and democracy (there were a lot more peasants than elites), it became a point of pride for everyone to speak and write in the local peasant language.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D

    I am aware of all that, but thanks for the oily condescension. So what? Why should czechs give a damn about all that? It's their country now. Why should they honor the language of an alien people. Your suggestion is idiotic.

    However, if you really think it's a good idea, then you would be cool with Israel's name being changed to whatever "Israel" is in turkish. After all, they governed that part of the world for a few centuries.

    Replies: @Jack D

  113. @dumpstersquirrel
    @whahae

    "Schizophrenia is highly hereditary."

    And highly correlated with drug use. Anyone with schizos in his family should resolve early on to never touch meth or booze. In fact, every schizo I've known has been a drug/booze addict, no exceptions.

    Replies: @Immigrant from former USSR, @Jack D

    Correlation says nothing about causation. The causation possibly (my guess is probably) runs in the other direction – schizophrenics try to self medicate with alcohol or illegal drugs to lessen their mental anguish, quiet the voices in their head, etc.

    Schizophrenics also tend to be heavy smokers – something like 88% of schizos smoke, and often they begin smoking at rates higher than the general population even before their mental symptoms become apparent (typically in the late teens). Again nicotine may make them feel better.

  114. @AndrewR
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    Czechia self before you wreck yourself!

    Replies: @Pericles

    Chechnya self before ya wriggidawreck yaself.

  115. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Kafka

    Franz Kafka[a] (3 July 1883 – 3 June 1924) was a German-language writer of novels and short stories who is widely regarded as one of the major figures of 20th-century literature. [ … ]
    Kafka was born into a middle-class, German-speaking Jewish family in Prague, the capital of the Kingdom of Bohemia, then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.[ … ] Kafka’s parents probably spoke a variety of German influenced by Yiddish that was sometimes pejoratively called Mauscheldeutsch, but, as the German language was considered the vehicle of social mobility, they probably encouraged their children to speak High German. [ … ] After leaving elementary school in 1893, Kafka was admitted to the rigorous classics-oriented state gymnasium, Altstädter Deutsches Gymnasium, an academic secondary school at Old Town Square, within the Kinský Palace. German was the language of instruction, but Kafka also spoke and wrote in Czech.[23][24] He studied the latter at the gymnasium for eight years, achieving good grades.[25] Although Kafka received compliments for his Czech, he never considered himself fluent in Czech, though he spoke German with a Czech accent.

  116. @Jack D
    @Mr. Anon

    For much of history, the educated classes of the Czech lands (BTW "Bohemia and Moravia" would be another accurate name) spoke German. Kafka lived in Prague all his life and wrote in German. It was not uncommon in European countries (especially in the east) for the elite to speak a different language than the local peasants. Sometimes the local language didn't even exist as a written language until fairly recently. With the rise of nationalism and democracy (there were a lot more peasants than elites), it became a point of pride for everyone to speak and write in the local peasant language.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I am aware of all that, but thanks for the oily condescension. So what? Why should czechs give a damn about all that? It’s their country now. Why should they honor the language of an alien people. Your suggestion is idiotic.

    However, if you really think it’s a good idea, then you would be cool with Israel’s name being changed to whatever “Israel” is in turkish. After all, they governed that part of the world for a few centuries.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Mr. Anon

    That would be İsrail. I would be cool with that.

  117. “He had blue eyes, was well-educated and musically gifted, just like Hanson”

    It’s it just me or is their choice totally irrational?

    When picking genes don’t you want different skills and characteristics than what you have already?

    Seems like a narcissistic indulgence, but then again they are a couple of dykes, the whole scenario is a selfish indulgence.

    • Replies: @EvolutionistX
    @Smitty

    "When picking genes don’t you want different skills and characteristics than what you have already?"
    2 reasons:
    1. Parents like having kids that resemble themselves, both for the normal instinctual reasons, and because it makes life easier because you don't have to deal with nosy strangers constantly wondering why your kid doesn't look like you, assuming you are a step parent, etc. (Speaking as an adopted kid, ignorant people told me I looked "just like" my adoptive parents all the time as a kid. It was kind of hilarious. Also, people suck at telling whether a kid looks like their parents.)

    2. People want a kid who has traits they like, and these are likely to match the traits in people they already like.

  118. @SPMoore8
    @dc.sunsets

    I agree with much of what you say here. I don't want to disparage infertile couples, but a child has a right to know where they came from, and should feel that their existence is both necessary and unquestionable. Grownups need that too.

    Of course it's quite possible that a particular mate or a particular batch of genetic material will yield a "substandard" specimen, at least by "objective" measures of performance, achievement, and miles per gallon. But even the "best" genetic materials generate outliers. Moreover, any ideology of genetic determinism is much more "Brave New World" than anything SJW's can cook up.

    Again, my sympathies are with this child. Not feeling a lot of love for it here.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @dc.sunsets, @Marina

    The child of these lesbians will pick at his or her differences with mommy like an itchy scab. The origin story will likely place his or her life in shadow.

    Origin stories often do. Sadly, age and wisdom don’t necessarily settle these perturbations.

  119. First of all, anonymous sperm donation should be illegal. Children should not be conceived in test tubes and should be able to know their fathers. If that hurts lesbians, then maybe God didn’t intend them to be mothers. If they want to be mothers, they’ll have to take one for the team and conceive a kid the old-fashioned way. Who knows, they might even enjoy it.

    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    @Marty T

    I agree, but wish to add that anonymous adoption is just as bad, and that even when it's not anonymous it hinges on the word of the biological mother who is not a perfectly trustworthy source.

    It's an imperfect world.

    , @Jack D
    @Marty T

    There are many legitimate reasons for artificial insemination other than single/lesbian motherhood. There are many married couples who would like to have children but can't due to male infertility - that's how AI got started many decades ago long before "alternative" lifestyles were socially acceptable.

    Artificial insemination is NOT the same thing as in-vitro fertilization ("test tube babies"). IVF again is mostly used by married couples with infertility problems. It would only used by lesbians who were also experiencing those problems.

    Lesbian couples could (and would) do it the old fashioned way (or with a male friend and a turkey baster) if artificial insemination was not available, but an anonymous AI donor is granted legal protection in most states. Using any other method could subject the father to significant claims for child support (and also grant him, from the recipient's POV, unwanted visitation and custody rights).

  120. @Mr. Anon
    "Some Internet research revealed to Collins that her baby’s father was in reality a man, James Aggeles, who suffered from schizophrenia, narcissistic personality disorder and other mental illnesses."

    So everything worked out okay in the end. A perfect fit for a lesbian who wants to have children.

    Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life, @Jean Cocteausten

    I initially read this as “sarcastic personality disorder” and for a fleeting moment thought science had finally explained internet commenters.

  121. Interesting that these lesbians seem to share the innate tendency of peak-fertility hetero women to view mating & procreation by analogy to a shopping/consumerist exercise, e.g. trading up for a more fashionable model or crying consumer-protection violation because This Is Not What It Said On The Label. Of course with both groups the commodity item is not a woman so at least the gay women were never pretending otherwise. Still I think lesbian eugenics hasn’t become a thing because of lesbians’ general proclivity for anti-bourgeois posturing and futile gestures befitting a young-adult novel, “It’s just you & me against the world” blah blah. Also there simply aren’t that many lesbians around and they don’t get buzz from the great media blob that caters to the interests of straight women, gay men, and straight men, in that order.

  122. @SPMoore8
    @dc.sunsets

    I agree with much of what you say here. I don't want to disparage infertile couples, but a child has a right to know where they came from, and should feel that their existence is both necessary and unquestionable. Grownups need that too.

    Of course it's quite possible that a particular mate or a particular batch of genetic material will yield a "substandard" specimen, at least by "objective" measures of performance, achievement, and miles per gallon. But even the "best" genetic materials generate outliers. Moreover, any ideology of genetic determinism is much more "Brave New World" than anything SJW's can cook up.

    Again, my sympathies are with this child. Not feeling a lot of love for it here.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @dc.sunsets, @Marina

    I’m donor conceived (happily married parents, sterile father). The enormity of this came crashing down on me when I was pregnant with my daughter and I realized she would grow up with something I never had: a father and siblings fully related to me. I see her now, and she has my husband’s personality in so many ways, and I’m so glad she lives with someone who understands her. There are huge parts of my personality that I share with neither my biological mother, nor my social father, and it was very lonely growing up. I want the practice banned entirely.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @Marina


    I want the practice banned entirely.
     
    I'm with you, Marina.

    My dad was a brilliant guy, but otherwise a POS. I got to know him well, and I suffered for it, but it's far better than never having known if you ask me. There will always be questions. The root of Abrahamic religion could be described as a sort of father-yearning, and that's an extremely powerful thing.
  123. @Expletive Deleted
    @Anon7

    And a happy St Brice's Day (13 Nov) to thee, sirrah!

    Replies: @Anon7

    Yikes! (Or maybe gadzooks!) I’d never heard of that little incident. Since I’m here today, maybe my ancestors were smart enough to keep sailing… rather than settling in England.

  124. @TheJester
    @Steve Sailer

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their "blond hair and blue eyes"?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don't think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ...." In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn't include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn't resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels ... and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I'm Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous Nephew, @PV van der Byl, @BB753, @Jefferson, @Jefferson

    “We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany.”

    You rarely saw blonde German adults and rarely saw blue eyed German adults? So the overwhelming majority of German adults have the same eye color and hair color as Antonio Banderas? Bullshit.

    If that were true why don’t most German Americans in the Midwest have Mediterranean looking phenotypes?

    If Germans are so dark like you claim, how come people can tell Germans apart from Syrian and Iraqi refugees just on phenotype alone?

  125. “a million Americans were conceived via donor sperm”

    I read through the comments; but I can’t seem to understand the need for anonymous sperm donors. Why can’t the women who want to become pregnant do it the old fashioned way? It is not like non-marital sex is some weird lifestyle like in 1950’s. If women start using any of the dating or hook-up websites (or some other website specifically made for the natural insemination purpose), I am sure many fine unmarried men (and some married men too; but that is a different story we don’t need to go) will be willing to have a tryst with them just to help the women become pregnant. It will also be far less financially expensive.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @epebble

    Unfortunately, in the USA, unmarried women and their children are entitled to child support. It would be financial suicide for a man to impregnate a random woman. Athletes are major targets for women seeking a monthly child support check. Many of those same athletes wind up bankrupt due to a lack of foresight in many areas, not just baby making.

    Men behind in child support are constantly jailed, which causes them to lose their jobs or lose their license to practice their trade whether they be an attorney or truck driver. If you search "child support murder", you can read about men who kill their baby mama and/or children over child support.

    Mel Gibson had an out-of-wedlock child. Although, he pays #20,000/mo in child support plus healthcare and schooling, the baby mama is constantly taking him to court. She is now demanding $100,000/mo. The baby was the final straw that ended Gibson's marriage, costing him half his fortune.

    Years ago a Kansas man became a sperm donor to two homosexual females that advertised on Craigslist. He thought he signed away his rights, but a licensed physician was not used for the insemination. The women lied about their financial stability and as soon as the child was born, they were at the welfare office. The state of Kansas has ruled that the man is responsible for the benefits that the child received from the state.

    Replies: @epebble

  126. @TheJester
    @Steve Sailer

    Who is behind all this claptrap about Germanic peoples and their "blond hair and blue eyes"?

    We lived in Germany for four years. We rarely saw an adult German with blond hair much less blue eyes regardless of where we traveled in Germany. Indeed, I don't think there was one such person in our village about 45 minutes from the French border. (We used to joke that it appeared the locals lived too close to the French border ...." In fact, very few of the Nazi leadership had blond hair. And this didn't include Adolph Hitler, whose dark personality matched his dark hair and dark complexion (sorry, I couldn't resist).

    I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels ... and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy and a group of visiting Russian students from Siberia.

    My wife is Swedish-German; I'm Irish-German. Yes, our son had blond hair through his toddler years. Then, it turned dark brown to almost black. On the German side, everyone on both sides of the family had black hair.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Anonymous Nephew, @PV van der Byl, @BB753, @Jefferson, @Jefferson

    “I have seen a smattering of blond hair and blue eyes in my European travels … and this includes Italian soldiers from northern Italy”

    Blond hair is more common in Northern Italy than in Southern Italy, but that is not a high bar as most of Europe is blonder than Southern Italy. Still Northern Italy is no blondtopia, Northern Italians on average look similar to Frenchmen, not Nordic Northern Euros.

    So I take your claim that Northern Italy is blonder than Germany as a big fat lie.

    Germany produces more Donald Trump like phenotypes than Northern Italy.

  127. @Steve Sailer
    @duderino

    Denmark is the leading sperm exporter.

    Replies: @Jaakko Raipala, @Richard S, @Richard S, @Reg Cæsar, @Anon7, @TheJester, @anonymous-antimarxist

    PBS’s Independent Lens had a documentary on a one time very handsome but now clearly mentally unstable semi homeless man who lives in a dilapidated RV along Venice Beach CA and was the sperm donor father of many offspring.

    http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/donor-unknown/

    JoEllen Marsh, 20, wants to know who her biological father is. All she knows of him is the label the California Cryobank gave him in the 1980s: Donor 150.
    JoEllen has always known her family wasn’t like other families. She grew up in Pennsylvania with two mothers, and a burning curiosity to know more about her anonymous donor father. When JoEllen discovers a website that connects donor‐conceived children, she manages to track down a half‐sister in New York. The New York Times picks up the story, and, over time, 12 more half‐siblings emerge across the United States.

    The article also falls into the hands of Jeffrey Harrison, living alone with four dogs and a pigeon in a broken‐down RV in a Venice Beach parking lot. In the 1980s, Jeffrey supplemented his meager income by becoming a regular sperm donor at California Cryobank. He was given an identifying number: 150. In a surreal moment, he recognizes himself as the unnamed central character in the story told on the front page of the New York Times. In time, Jeffrey comes forward to identify himself as Donor 150.

    In this cascade of revelations seen in the film Donor Unknown, JoEllen corresponds with her newly discovered half-siblings, comparing what they have in common, and the ways in which they resemble one another. Nervous but curious, JoEllen wants to arrange to meet with Jeffrey, but some of her half-siblings are ambivalent. Danielle in New York is skeptical that she could have a meaningful relationship with Jeffrey. Rachelle, in Memphis, isn’t sure she would want to meet him at all. Ryann and Roxanne, who live in California, have already visited him on their own.

    In the end, JoEllen finds Fletcher, her 19-year-old half brother, who agrees to accompany her to rendezvous with Roxanne in the parking lot in Los Angeles where Jeffrey lives. In the end, it is a very modern family reunion among practical strangers who happen to share DNA. The journey raises questions about what makes us who we are, what makes a family, and what the brave new world of fertility technology means for our assumptions about both.

    The Filmmaker
    Jerry Rothwell is a documentary filmmaker whose directing credits include the feature documentaries Heavy Load, winner of the Audience Award at the 2008 Britdoc Film Festival; and Deep Water, co-directed with Louise Osmond and winner of the Grierson Award and Best Documentary at the Rome Film Festival.

    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    @anonymous-antimarxist

    Always the narrative is fit to the film maker's plot or fairy tale thesis.

    This stuff pisses me off. It doesn't always answer questions to look up your back story. It's often just painful.

    People should know up front that alternatives to a traditional family raising their biological kids are not the same and in every way I can posit, in a negative direction. "Modern" in this use = stupid or sub-optimal.

  128. “Steve please let this go past your mod filter. You must understand how much damage his ilk does to the people around them.”

    Yes, by all means, do. Let the lunatic rant. It is all he is good for, apparently.

  129. @Sailer has an interesting life
    @Mr. Anon

    Bless you sir. We share similar thoughts. I was just going to ask if you were the father. So now that another person, ie a reporter who presumably got that info from a professional head shrinker, states that NPD is a real thing, how does it feel to be human garbage?

    See the thing is I know this gets to you. You can't help you self any more than a schizophrenic can stop seeing visions in toast. Give me a response. Please.

    Steve please let this go past your mod filter. You must understand how much damage his ilk does to the people around them. In exchange I'll post a link about a cat that plays the piano or something. It was all the rage a few years back.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I guess I once said something that deeply offended you. I don’t remember it – you are not worth remembering – but apparently it was a life-changing experience for you.

    Please indulge your insanity and paranoia elsewhere. There are people here who have interesting things to say. You are not one of them.

  130. @ikram
    @SPMoore8

    Gretchen couldn't tell mustafa was impotent until six months passed? The joke here is that Germans don't engage in regular sex?

    Replies: @Ivy, @Anonymous

    Instead of impotent, I believe they meant sterile. So he serviced the man’s wife, but couldn’t impregnate her. It begs the question, who fathered the 8 children?

  131. @AnotherDad
    @Jaakko Raipala


    “The Danes are superior race and I want my child to be a part of that race.”
     
    Not a ridiculous thought. The Scandinavians generally seem to have their stuff together ... other than the abject insanity of letting non-Scandinavians in to loot and screwup their countries. (A pretty darn big "other than".) Still far, far, far better than all these British women getting knocked up by their societies detritus, now even pumping out half-caste bastards.

    However, she's still a parasite on her nation. This intentional single-motherhood is pox on civilization.

    The premise of pretty much everything--our prosperity, self-government, freedom--depends on *men* going out and doing productive labor to provide for their families. (I realize lots of women have jobs, even "careers", some of them important like nursing or teaching. But the core work that actually creates the super-prosperous society we live in--farming, engineering, mining, energy extraction, refining, power production, building, IT--is done by men.) Our social welfare provision essentially works with the assumption that most people are taking care of themselves--most children provided for by dad+mom--and that we can tax productive men to smooth and socialize the provision of some services--education, medical care, etc.

    Single-momhood is just a broadside into this society's boat. It's creating children who won't be provided for and looked after by a productive father. 90% of the time, the mom won't be a net tax contributor, she, her kid will be in the net parasitic on the public tough, even if they aren't directly welfare cases. (And the other 10% are mostly cases of b.s. jobs which the government or its regulation or some quirk in the market have caused to exist and be well paid, not something materially productive.)

    Responsible men need to find a way to either *end* this system, or extract their labor from this system and let it crash and burn. Again ... "separate societies". I don't wish to support--don't wish my son to have to support--civilization destroying single momhood. And shouldn't be compelled to do it.

    Replies: @TheJester

    Responsible men need to find a way to either *end* this system, or extract their labor from this system and let it crash and burn. Again … “separate societies”. I don’t wish to support–don’t wish my son to have to support–civilization destroying single momhood. And shouldn’t be compelled to do it.

    My thoughts are running in a similar direction.

    It is no accident that socially deviant lifestyle communities uniquely exist in North America and the EU and that economic immigrants from alien cultures are flocking to both by the millions. The social deviants and immigrants all live “in the shadow” of the most productive, innovative, and wealthiest civilization that has ever existed … created by Western men with traditional families in traditional relationships. There are social and economic carrying costs for deviant lifestyles and massive immigration of peoples from alien cultures — affirmative action, quota systems, generous and apparently permanent welfare benefits, etc. They flock to and/or claim the right to exist in this “shadow” because, to date, the “shadow” could afford and was willing to pay the carrying costs. Notice that socially deviant lifestyles and massive immigration are not tolerated in less affluent countries and continents … not for a moment for good reasons.

    Let me suggest that it become common practice to refer to these peoples as “shadow dwellers” to make clear that they are “takers” who do not contribute to the commonwealth and the common good. Perhaps this terminology will also highlight the fact that social deviants and welfare immigrants now exist in such large numbers that they are quickly cashing out our society and civilization. This won’t last for long because it can’t last for long. The EU and the United States are both close to bankruptcy.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @TheJester

    Not all single mothers (and this thread was about lesbian COUPLES who are usually 2 income families and often have good jobs) or immigrants are "takers" - some are net contributors to society, at least economically. If you base your opposition on the idea that they are ALL (or even mostly) takers then it will be easy to negate your argument with counter examples. You need a better or different filtering principle.

  132. The whole super Aryan blue eyed father breeding program is of course one more Left idea copied from the Nazis – the Lebensborn program – but of course without the tight controls the SS would have imposed. This is the American huckster Lebensborn program.

    I guess next we will have demands for strict controls on school lunches, to remove any non-organic foods, just like the Nazi fad for organic foods, except the American Left version of that will come out disgusting and inedible and will be sold to the schools by hucksters. Right – already have that.

  133. @whorefinder
    So lesbians are even dumber than we supposed--and dangerous to themselves and others.

    Funny, it was gay men's mental instability that most people worried about throughout history and today, what with the high propensity for impulsive behavior and mob violence and sociopathy (e.g. Ernest Rohm, the Stonewall Riots after Judy Garland died, the AIDS partner trading).

    But lesbians were viewed as benignly mentally disabled and rather laughable. They'd go off in the woods all man-hating and either disappear on some tiny commune or come back for their meds and get committed.

    But now we're having major problems where lesbians, for political reasons, are having children, and their mental deficiencies are going to be visited on innocent children---such as their inability to tell obvious scams from a mile away, or their inability to choose stable genetic fathers for their children. This does not bode well.

    Replies: @SFG, @Hell_Is_Like_Newark

    My experience with lesbians as tenants and neighbors (in the past I had a bunch):

    Lesbian couples seem to do nothing but fight with each other.. constantly. As a landlord it seemed every time a lesbian couple moved in, one would move out within months, and / or I would get a request to change the locks.

    The relationship meltdowns were epic at times, complete with me getting dragged into one lesbian trying to regain access to the apartment to retrieve her stuff, screaming matches, crying, and other drama.

    The conventional wisdom is that lesbian couples are stable while gay male couples are not. Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.

    IMHO, lesbian divorce will be a sight to behold once cases start working their respective ways through the court systems. Family court should be interesting to watch as well. Who will the court favor for custody when both are women?

    Another thing I have noticed (granted, I am not looking at a large sample size here) is that when the lesbian couples go the IVF route, they tend to favor having boys over girls. I would be curious to see what the stats are on a national scale.

    I pity any boy growing up in such a household though.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Hell_Is_Like_Newark

    Interesting.

    As strange as it might sound male homosexuals generally possess the quintessence of typical masculine characteristics - they are into sex. Lots and lots of sex at every available opportunity with every available partner. Also, they have the ability to cooperate and bond and teamwork with other gays hardly known to them, for the 'greater good' and to ease the smooth running of relationships.

    So it seems that lesbians have the quintessence of feminine characteristics, namely the spite, cattiness, suspicion and hostility instinctively thrown at anyone who is thought to possibly be 'rival'.
    And I doubt that their sex lives are anything to write home about.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Brutusale

    , @Triumph104
    @Hell_Is_Like_Newark

    Black female homosexuals are exceptionally violent. They have multiple fight videos on YouTube.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwr8-3mQ4PfjaWVAlVcyCVhDeuGnTxH9f


    The two WNBA-related shootings involved all blacks and one murder. Last year WNBA players Brittney Griner and Glory Johnson were arrested for domestic-violence. Johnson said she received a concussion from hits Griner made to her head. The two married a month later and Johnson had twins through a physician. The twins were premature and reportedly have serious health problems. Johnson is suing for increased child support.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/wnba/mercury/2016/04/14/brittney-griner-former-wife-glory-johnson-spar-over-child-support/83039942/

    , @AnotherDad
    @Hell_Is_Like_Newark


    Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.
     
    Seriously ... how can this be a surprise. It's a "romantic" relationship with not one but *two* women.
    , @Brutusale
    @Hell_Is_Like_Newark

    The two lesbians whose case brought SSM to Massachusetts had a marriage that lasted TWO WHOLE YEARS.

  134. I am in a gay (male) couple raising kids conceived through donor eggs.

    It seems a bit odd for me that so many people commenting here, who I assumed were sympathetic to the alt-right, which generally includes a belief in the importance of nature over nurture and the irrelevance of the parental environment in the face of genetics, are commenting that kids who don’t know their biological father or mother are going to be irrevocably screwed up.

    Resentful, maybe. But lots of people are resentful about lots of things. Including me (and I had a loving mother and father).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Ullastret

    To kids, whatever situation they are in is "normal" to them. Your parents are wolves? Sure, no problem. It's only later when they come under peer pressure that they realize that something is different. Depending on their personality (more than anything you do) they will either embrace that difference and make it a part of their identity or else reject it and resent you for it.

    I'm surprised that you are surprised. There are people here so traditional that they still worship Zeus and resent that upstart Jesus.

    , @SPMoore8
    @Ullastret

    The logic is faulty. Just because iSteve is famous for HBD, doesn't mean that everyone who posts here buys into it 100%. I post here because there are few if any taboos. Also because the commentariat is pretty bright and moderation keeps out the tiresome ideologues.

    I'm just going to repeat my belief that child has a right to know where he or she came from. I am inclined to think that the more impersonal it is, the more of a problem it will be. Other than that, love your kids and put them first. Pretty simple.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Marina
    @Ullastret

    I'm donor conceived. I got some pretty good genes from my father (IQ +2 SD above the mean, and I'm pretty) and some not good ones (poor social skills, sperg tendencies, autoimmune disease), but this doesn't wash away the very real pain of not knowing half your family. I am odd and quirky in ways that don't "fit" with my mother's family, and I have to wonder if somewhere out there is another family that shares some of those traits. Is my father really is okay with having untold sons and daughters out there he'll never meet, and if so, did I inherit that rather cruel sense of detachment? I have never felt close to my social father's family; am I missing out on real and satisfying relationships with my paternal relatives that I'd have had in a normal family. My brother is donor conceived from someone else, and we're half siblings, and we're very, very different. Are there siblings relationships some alternate universe Marina might have had? Somewhere out there, is there a slightly spergy conservative guy with high verbal intelligence and some autoimmune problems who made me who I am? Personality is almost entirely genetic. I want to meet the other people who share my personality.

    My daughter and my husband share personality traits I don't, and they understand each other in a way I don't understand her. I'm so, so glad she shares that with someone, has someone who can relate to what she's experiencing. I'm also glad that her mother is someone who loved her father's quirks enough to sign up for a lifetime married to them, and thus will cherish her quirks likewise. I don't know if my mother would have loved or even liked my sperm donor. I don't think she would have; she finds a lot of aspects of my personality hard to bear, despite loving me. Outside of the artificial situation of donor sperm, a person like me would never have been created, and I think that's a blessing. It is GOOD that children inherit their personalities. The alternative, where children get traits at random, is much harder.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @AnotherDad
    @Ullastret


    It seems a bit odd for me that so many people commenting here, who I assumed were sympathetic to the alt-right, which generally includes a belief in the importance of nature over nurture and the irrelevance of the parental environment in the face of genetics, are commenting that kids who don’t know their biological father or mother are going to be irrevocably screwed up.
     
    Ullastret, i get your logic--you're taking the HBD awareness to mean"parenting doesn't matter". What you're missing is what HBD actually means, which is "genes really do matter".

    There isn't much doubt that adoption doesn't really "take". Note, i'm definitely not denying the parental sacrifice and the reality of love all around. Simply that the kids are more like--personality, intelligence, talents, skills, attitudes, life success--their genetic parents, than their adopted ones. The data on this are crystal clear. Sometimes all that is overcome with love. Sometimes it's just a recipe for a "misfit", uncertainty, unhappiness.

    I don't want to speak for everyone here, but i think on balance a typical HBD aware intellect thinks something like: Children belong with their biological parents. That's where they'll be the most happy. That's where they'll really "fit" and feel they "belong". Adoption is sub-optimal--precisely because genes are so powerful--and should only happen, when there's no choice. (Death, intractable circumstance.) And even then, biological family--tapping that genetic connection--is to be preferred.

    Like a lot of parents commenting here, i have very little doubt my kids would be pretty like they are even if raised by my neighbors across the street. Their--pretty distinct--personalities were evident early on. I could have guessed the rank ordering of the SAT scores before they were even in kindergarten. I don't kid myself about my terrific parenting skill. But what my kids know is this is *their* family. They spring from the long line of their ancestors, down to directly from my wife and me. This family is *theirs* and where they *belong*.

    All this gay nonsense, and intentional single-motherhood are creating "adoption-lite" scenarios ... on purpose. They are going out and intentionally *creating* children who will not have their full real family with them. It's selfish and wrong.

  135. @Marty T
    First of all, anonymous sperm donation should be illegal. Children should not be conceived in test tubes and should be able to know their fathers. If that hurts lesbians, then maybe God didn't intend them to be mothers. If they want to be mothers, they'll have to take one for the team and conceive a kid the old-fashioned way. Who knows, they might even enjoy it.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @Jack D

    I agree, but wish to add that anonymous adoption is just as bad, and that even when it’s not anonymous it hinges on the word of the biological mother who is not a perfectly trustworthy source.

    It’s an imperfect world.

  136. @anonymous-antimarxist
    @Steve Sailer

    PBS's Independent Lens had a documentary on a one time very handsome but now clearly mentally unstable semi homeless man who lives in a dilapidated RV along Venice Beach CA and was the sperm donor father of many offspring.


    http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/donor-unknown/


    JoEllen Marsh, 20, wants to know who her biological father is. All she knows of him is the label the California Cryobank gave him in the 1980s: Donor 150.
    JoEllen has always known her family wasn't like other families. She grew up in Pennsylvania with two mothers, and a burning curiosity to know more about her anonymous donor father. When JoEllen discovers a website that connects donor‐conceived children, she manages to track down a half‐sister in New York. The New York Times picks up the story, and, over time, 12 more half‐siblings emerge across the United States.

    The article also falls into the hands of Jeffrey Harrison, living alone with four dogs and a pigeon in a broken‐down RV in a Venice Beach parking lot. In the 1980s, Jeffrey supplemented his meager income by becoming a regular sperm donor at California Cryobank. He was given an identifying number: 150. In a surreal moment, he recognizes himself as the unnamed central character in the story told on the front page of the New York Times. In time, Jeffrey comes forward to identify himself as Donor 150.

    In this cascade of revelations seen in the film Donor Unknown, JoEllen corresponds with her newly discovered half-siblings, comparing what they have in common, and the ways in which they resemble one another. Nervous but curious, JoEllen wants to arrange to meet with Jeffrey, but some of her half-siblings are ambivalent. Danielle in New York is skeptical that she could have a meaningful relationship with Jeffrey. Rachelle, in Memphis, isn't sure she would want to meet him at all. Ryann and Roxanne, who live in California, have already visited him on their own.

    In the end, JoEllen finds Fletcher, her 19-year-old half brother, who agrees to accompany her to rendezvous with Roxanne in the parking lot in Los Angeles where Jeffrey lives. In the end, it is a very modern family reunion among practical strangers who happen to share DNA. The journey raises questions about what makes us who we are, what makes a family, and what the brave new world of fertility technology means for our assumptions about both.

    The Filmmaker
    Jerry Rothwell is a documentary filmmaker whose directing credits include the feature documentaries Heavy Load, winner of the Audience Award at the 2008 Britdoc Film Festival; and Deep Water, co-directed with Louise Osmond and winner of the Grierson Award and Best Documentary at the Rome Film Festival.
     

    Replies: @dc.sunsets

    Always the narrative is fit to the film maker’s plot or fairy tale thesis.

    This stuff pisses me off. It doesn’t always answer questions to look up your back story. It’s often just painful.

    People should know up front that alternatives to a traditional family raising their biological kids are not the same and in every way I can posit, in a negative direction. “Modern” in this use = stupid or sub-optimal.

  137. @Anon7
    @Anon7

    I just found out that Britain outlawed anonymous sperm donation; that's one reason why British women go outside the country to get what they want.

    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2icn8p

    Pretty racy double entendre for the BBC...

    Replies: @Big Bill, @anon, @Stan d Mute

    In the UK’s case i wouldn’t be surprised if it was banned *because* ppl were choosing viking DNA.

  138. @Anonymous
    I've always wondered what kind of man would become a sperm donor. I mean, what kind of man is comfortable allowing a child of his child to be raised someone he knows nothing about. Ideally, I would always want to make sure that any children of mine are raised by someone I hold in the highest esteem. To have such a lack of regard for the well-being of one's child seems cold and almost pathological.

    Replies: @anon

    Same – hence thinking sperm donors shouldn’t be self-selected.

  139. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    @whorefinder

    My experience with lesbians as tenants and neighbors (in the past I had a bunch):


    Lesbian couples seem to do nothing but fight with each other.. constantly. As a landlord it seemed every time a lesbian couple moved in, one would move out within months, and / or I would get a request to change the locks.

    The relationship meltdowns were epic at times, complete with me getting dragged into one lesbian trying to regain access to the apartment to retrieve her stuff, screaming matches, crying, and other drama.

    The conventional wisdom is that lesbian couples are stable while gay male couples are not. Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.

    IMHO, lesbian divorce will be a sight to behold once cases start working their respective ways through the court systems. Family court should be interesting to watch as well. Who will the court favor for custody when both are women?

    Another thing I have noticed (granted, I am not looking at a large sample size here) is that when the lesbian couples go the IVF route, they tend to favor having boys over girls. I would be curious to see what the stats are on a national scale.

    I pity any boy growing up in such a household though.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104, @AnotherDad, @Brutusale

    Interesting.

    As strange as it might sound male homosexuals generally possess the quintessence of typical masculine characteristics – they are into sex. Lots and lots of sex at every available opportunity with every available partner. Also, they have the ability to cooperate and bond and teamwork with other gays hardly known to them, for the ‘greater good’ and to ease the smooth running of relationships.

    So it seems that lesbians have the quintessence of feminine characteristics, namely the spite, cattiness, suspicion and hostility instinctively thrown at anyone who is thought to possibly be ‘rival’.
    And I doubt that their sex lives are anything to write home about.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Anonymous

    Homosexuality is interesting because it shows how sexes behave when they don't have to please the other sex.

    , @Brutusale
    @Anonymous

    Most of the gay males I know, when they're having a rough patch in their relationship, tend to like bringing in a third guy to play with.

    The lesbians I know all basically have no sex life. Lesbian Bed Death is real.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian_bed_death*

    Homosexuals of both sexes (can you still just limit it to two?) are just extreme actors reflecting the emotions endemic to their gender: men want to screw everything in sight and women have a headache tonight.

    *I noticed the Wiki on LBD has the lesbian community, unhappy with the true depiction of them as being the dried-up hags they are, has been fighting studies with emotions in calling LBD untrue.

    Replies: @res

  140. @Ullastret
    I am in a gay (male) couple raising kids conceived through donor eggs.

    It seems a bit odd for me that so many people commenting here, who I assumed were sympathetic to the alt-right, which generally includes a belief in the importance of nature over nurture and the irrelevance of the parental environment in the face of genetics, are commenting that kids who don't know their biological father or mother are going to be irrevocably screwed up.

    Resentful, maybe. But lots of people are resentful about lots of things. Including me (and I had a loving mother and father).

    Replies: @Jack D, @SPMoore8, @Marina, @AnotherDad

    To kids, whatever situation they are in is “normal” to them. Your parents are wolves? Sure, no problem. It’s only later when they come under peer pressure that they realize that something is different. Depending on their personality (more than anything you do) they will either embrace that difference and make it a part of their identity or else reject it and resent you for it.

    I’m surprised that you are surprised. There are people here so traditional that they still worship Zeus and resent that upstart Jesus.

  141. @epebble
    "a million Americans were conceived via donor sperm"

    I read through the comments; but I can't seem to understand the need for anonymous sperm donors. Why can't the women who want to become pregnant do it the old fashioned way? It is not like non-marital sex is some weird lifestyle like in 1950's. If women start using any of the dating or hook-up websites (or some other website specifically made for the natural insemination purpose), I am sure many fine unmarried men (and some married men too; but that is a different story we don't need to go) will be willing to have a tryst with them just to help the women become pregnant. It will also be far less financially expensive.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    Unfortunately, in the USA, unmarried women and their children are entitled to child support. It would be financial suicide for a man to impregnate a random woman. Athletes are major targets for women seeking a monthly child support check. Many of those same athletes wind up bankrupt due to a lack of foresight in many areas, not just baby making.

    Men behind in child support are constantly jailed, which causes them to lose their jobs or lose their license to practice their trade whether they be an attorney or truck driver. If you search “child support murder”, you can read about men who kill their baby mama and/or children over child support.

    Mel Gibson had an out-of-wedlock child. Although, he pays #20,000/mo in child support plus healthcare and schooling, the baby mama is constantly taking him to court. She is now demanding $100,000/mo. The baby was the final straw that ended Gibson’s marriage, costing him half his fortune.

    Years ago a Kansas man became a sperm donor to two homosexual females that advertised on Craigslist. He thought he signed away his rights, but a licensed physician was not used for the insemination. The women lied about their financial stability and as soon as the child was born, they were at the welfare office. The state of Kansas has ruled that the man is responsible for the benefits that the child received from the state.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Triumph104

    Thank you; That is a pretty convincing explanation. I still wonder though, when we have a well developed legal practice in the areas of adoptions, IVF and other assisted reproduction, prenuptial agreements, surrogacy, organ donations/transplants, assisted suicide etc., can't a legal framework be developed to counter those potential abuses and allow someone to donate sperm the old fashioned way.

  142. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as ‘Czechia’"

    Perhaps "Czechia" sounds pleasing to Slavic ears, but seriously, its not like "Czechland" was taken already. Bohemia-Moravia is too clunky; everyone would just call the place "Bohemia" (like they already refer to Bosnia-Herzegovina as "Bosnia").

    On the plus side of the ledger, "the Czech Republic" is a terrible name.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Old Palo Altan, @anon

    I’ve been calling it Czechia for years – “Czech Republic” has one too many syllables – two or three is best.

  143. @Anonymous
    @Dave Pinsen


    They would have been better off using a donor they knew. A former boss of my girlfriend is gay, and he and his partner have both donated sperm to (different) lesbian friends. I think the former boss waved his parental rights, but he still has contact with his biological child and is treated as an uncle or something.
     
    I do background investigations for the USG in security clearance investigations. A good number of people, who look good on paper and in person, have serious mental or emotional issues or serious skeletons in their closet that they will not tell their best friends about. Or if they do tell close confidants about seeing a shrink they'll say they're seeing someone for depression/anxiety, which they also have, and which there's not much stigma involving.

    Past behavior is indicative of future behavior and the nature and character of someone.

    Smarter, more educated people are more skillful at hiding their past fucked up behavior or mental issues. With some skillful questioning and bluffing as to why a Subject failed a poly, I've been able to elicit some pretty dark past behavior (e.g., sexual deviancy w/o law enforcement involvement) that not even the Subject's wife of 30 years knows about. I will then interview friends of 30 years and none will have knowledge of these skeletons. And I know when someone's not being truthful.

    Given what I know, no way would I trust what I see on paper or know through normal daily interactions. Especially when picking the DNA of my progeny.

    Replies: @Anon

    “I will then interview friends of 30 years and none will have knowledge of these skeletons. And I know when someone’s not being truthful.”

    You sound way too confident in your skills.

  144. @TheJester
    @AnotherDad


    Responsible men need to find a way to either *end* this system, or extract their labor from this system and let it crash and burn. Again … “separate societies”. I don’t wish to support–don’t wish my son to have to support–civilization destroying single momhood. And shouldn’t be compelled to do it.
     
    My thoughts are running in a similar direction.

    It is no accident that socially deviant lifestyle communities uniquely exist in North America and the EU and that economic immigrants from alien cultures are flocking to both by the millions. The social deviants and immigrants all live "in the shadow" of the most productive, innovative, and wealthiest civilization that has ever existed ... created by Western men with traditional families in traditional relationships. There are social and economic carrying costs for deviant lifestyles and massive immigration of peoples from alien cultures -- affirmative action, quota systems, generous and apparently permanent welfare benefits, etc. They flock to and/or claim the right to exist in this "shadow" because, to date, the "shadow" could afford and was willing to pay the carrying costs. Notice that socially deviant lifestyles and massive immigration are not tolerated in less affluent countries and continents ... not for a moment for good reasons.

    Let me suggest that it become common practice to refer to these peoples as "shadow dwellers" to make clear that they are "takers" who do not contribute to the commonwealth and the common good. Perhaps this terminology will also highlight the fact that social deviants and welfare immigrants now exist in such large numbers that they are quickly cashing out our society and civilization. This won't last for long because it can't last for long. The EU and the United States are both close to bankruptcy.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Not all single mothers (and this thread was about lesbian COUPLES who are usually 2 income families and often have good jobs) or immigrants are “takers” – some are net contributors to society, at least economically. If you base your opposition on the idea that they are ALL (or even mostly) takers then it will be easy to negate your argument with counter examples. You need a better or different filtering principle.

  145. @Marty T
    First of all, anonymous sperm donation should be illegal. Children should not be conceived in test tubes and should be able to know their fathers. If that hurts lesbians, then maybe God didn't intend them to be mothers. If they want to be mothers, they'll have to take one for the team and conceive a kid the old-fashioned way. Who knows, they might even enjoy it.

    Replies: @dc.sunsets, @Jack D

    There are many legitimate reasons for artificial insemination other than single/lesbian motherhood. There are many married couples who would like to have children but can’t due to male infertility – that’s how AI got started many decades ago long before “alternative” lifestyles were socially acceptable.

    Artificial insemination is NOT the same thing as in-vitro fertilization (“test tube babies”). IVF again is mostly used by married couples with infertility problems. It would only used by lesbians who were also experiencing those problems.

    Lesbian couples could (and would) do it the old fashioned way (or with a male friend and a turkey baster) if artificial insemination was not available, but an anonymous AI donor is granted legal protection in most states. Using any other method could subject the father to significant claims for child support (and also grant him, from the recipient’s POV, unwanted visitation and custody rights).

  146. @Ullastret
    I am in a gay (male) couple raising kids conceived through donor eggs.

    It seems a bit odd for me that so many people commenting here, who I assumed were sympathetic to the alt-right, which generally includes a belief in the importance of nature over nurture and the irrelevance of the parental environment in the face of genetics, are commenting that kids who don't know their biological father or mother are going to be irrevocably screwed up.

    Resentful, maybe. But lots of people are resentful about lots of things. Including me (and I had a loving mother and father).

    Replies: @Jack D, @SPMoore8, @Marina, @AnotherDad

    The logic is faulty. Just because iSteve is famous for HBD, doesn’t mean that everyone who posts here buys into it 100%. I post here because there are few if any taboos. Also because the commentariat is pretty bright and moderation keeps out the tiresome ideologues.

    I’m just going to repeat my belief that child has a right to know where he or she came from. I am inclined to think that the more impersonal it is, the more of a problem it will be. Other than that, love your kids and put them first. Pretty simple.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    It's pretty clear that some adoptees and children of sperm donors have a deep and strong DESIRE to know where they came from - they get all obsessed over finding out. (Others don't give a damn - Steve Jobs wanted nothing to do with his genetic father Jandali and gave credit to the people who actually raised him.)

    Whether that should be a RIGHT is a problem because it involves others - my right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins. Particularly in the past, mothers giving children up for adoption and sperm donors were both promised that their identity would NOT be disclosed, so if you allow a child to exercise their "right" to learn their parent's identity you harm the parent's right NOT to be contacted by their offspring, but for which they may not have entered into the transaction in the 1st place.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  147. @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    @whorefinder

    My experience with lesbians as tenants and neighbors (in the past I had a bunch):


    Lesbian couples seem to do nothing but fight with each other.. constantly. As a landlord it seemed every time a lesbian couple moved in, one would move out within months, and / or I would get a request to change the locks.

    The relationship meltdowns were epic at times, complete with me getting dragged into one lesbian trying to regain access to the apartment to retrieve her stuff, screaming matches, crying, and other drama.

    The conventional wisdom is that lesbian couples are stable while gay male couples are not. Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.

    IMHO, lesbian divorce will be a sight to behold once cases start working their respective ways through the court systems. Family court should be interesting to watch as well. Who will the court favor for custody when both are women?

    Another thing I have noticed (granted, I am not looking at a large sample size here) is that when the lesbian couples go the IVF route, they tend to favor having boys over girls. I would be curious to see what the stats are on a national scale.

    I pity any boy growing up in such a household though.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104, @AnotherDad, @Brutusale

    Black female homosexuals are exceptionally violent. They have multiple fight videos on YouTube.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwr8-3mQ4PfjaWVAlVcyCVhDeuGnTxH9f

    The two WNBA-related shootings involved all blacks and one murder. Last year WNBA players Brittney Griner and Glory Johnson were arrested for domestic-violence. Johnson said she received a concussion from hits Griner made to her head. The two married a month later and Johnson had twins through a physician. The twins were premature and reportedly have serious health problems. Johnson is suing for increased child support.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/wnba/mercury/2016/04/14/brittney-griner-former-wife-glory-johnson-spar-over-child-support/83039942/

  148. @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    @whorefinder

    My experience with lesbians as tenants and neighbors (in the past I had a bunch):


    Lesbian couples seem to do nothing but fight with each other.. constantly. As a landlord it seemed every time a lesbian couple moved in, one would move out within months, and / or I would get a request to change the locks.

    The relationship meltdowns were epic at times, complete with me getting dragged into one lesbian trying to regain access to the apartment to retrieve her stuff, screaming matches, crying, and other drama.

    The conventional wisdom is that lesbian couples are stable while gay male couples are not. Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.

    IMHO, lesbian divorce will be a sight to behold once cases start working their respective ways through the court systems. Family court should be interesting to watch as well. Who will the court favor for custody when both are women?

    Another thing I have noticed (granted, I am not looking at a large sample size here) is that when the lesbian couples go the IVF route, they tend to favor having boys over girls. I would be curious to see what the stats are on a national scale.

    I pity any boy growing up in such a household though.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104, @AnotherDad, @Brutusale

    Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.

    Seriously … how can this be a surprise. It’s a “romantic” relationship with not one but *two* women.

  149. @SPMoore8
    @Ullastret

    The logic is faulty. Just because iSteve is famous for HBD, doesn't mean that everyone who posts here buys into it 100%. I post here because there are few if any taboos. Also because the commentariat is pretty bright and moderation keeps out the tiresome ideologues.

    I'm just going to repeat my belief that child has a right to know where he or she came from. I am inclined to think that the more impersonal it is, the more of a problem it will be. Other than that, love your kids and put them first. Pretty simple.

    Replies: @Jack D

    It’s pretty clear that some adoptees and children of sperm donors have a deep and strong DESIRE to know where they came from – they get all obsessed over finding out. (Others don’t give a damn – Steve Jobs wanted nothing to do with his genetic father Jandali and gave credit to the people who actually raised him.)

    Whether that should be a RIGHT is a problem because it involves others – my right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins. Particularly in the past, mothers giving children up for adoption and sperm donors were both promised that their identity would NOT be disclosed, so if you allow a child to exercise their “right” to learn their parent’s identity you harm the parent’s right NOT to be contacted by their offspring, but for which they may not have entered into the transaction in the 1st place.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Jack D

    Knowing who your parents are is not the same as having any sort of "right" with regard to contact, or a relationship, or what have you. Sometimes it has important medical consequences, as I'm sure you know.

    There are numerous adoptees who have no desire to know, or contact, their biological parents (Jobs comes to mind, Colin Kaepernick is another.) But they often know who their parents were: and I think they should have that right.

    As for guys masturbating for pay: What did you expect? I read the same news stories you do, and overall I think allowing anonymous parenthood is cruel and unjust.

    Replies: @Jack D

  150. @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    It's pretty clear that some adoptees and children of sperm donors have a deep and strong DESIRE to know where they came from - they get all obsessed over finding out. (Others don't give a damn - Steve Jobs wanted nothing to do with his genetic father Jandali and gave credit to the people who actually raised him.)

    Whether that should be a RIGHT is a problem because it involves others - my right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins. Particularly in the past, mothers giving children up for adoption and sperm donors were both promised that their identity would NOT be disclosed, so if you allow a child to exercise their "right" to learn their parent's identity you harm the parent's right NOT to be contacted by their offspring, but for which they may not have entered into the transaction in the 1st place.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    Knowing who your parents are is not the same as having any sort of “right” with regard to contact, or a relationship, or what have you. Sometimes it has important medical consequences, as I’m sure you know.

    There are numerous adoptees who have no desire to know, or contact, their biological parents (Jobs comes to mind, Colin Kaepernick is another.) But they often know who their parents were: and I think they should have that right.

    As for guys masturbating for pay: What did you expect? I read the same news stories you do, and overall I think allowing anonymous parenthood is cruel and unjust.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    As for family medical history, it will be increasingly superfluous - all of your hereditary conditions are already written in the DNA that is present in every cell of your body. If that was the objection, then you could get a detailed (but anonymous) medical history from every donor or birth parent.


    But the kids seem to want more than that - it is not a practical need but the idea that they need to be somehow connected to their roots and know where they came from. That's a legitimate wish but again has to be balanced against the wishes of others.

    What did I expect? That the promises made to the donors would be upheld by the institutions of our society. If these same fathers were held liable for child support, would you consider that fair?

    As for being cruel and unjust, the original thinking was that this would be used for infertile married couples and that you would never tell the kid that his father was not really his biological father. Is this cruel?

    Replies: @Marina, @SPMoore8, @Anonymous

  151. @Thea
    @SFG

    No, most would say adopt.

    Sperm banks are icky. Also They have a real problem with few quality donors. Like this gentleman, some men have dozens or hundreds of children. What happens if they meet & unknowingly have children?

    Replies: @Paul Mendez, @Hepp, @Stan d Mute

    No, most would say adopt.

    Adoption is evil and spits in the face of evolution. Adoption is r selected people creating more of themselves and having them being taken care of by k selected people.

    Maybe if someone comes from a genius line and his parents died, it could be a nobel activity, as you’re not looking after your genetic interests but you are raising someone likely to be a benefit to society. But most cases of adoption is putting resources into helping the worst genetic material.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Hepp

    I've said this before on other posts, but I'll repeat it: adoption works best within a family. If a couple is infertile, see if a brother or sister, or even a cousin, will have an "extra" child and adopt that child. The child knows exactly where it came from and exactly why it was given up for adoption. It can retain contact with his or her biological brothers or sisters. There's even a genetic connection. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be practiced anymore due, I guess, to small families and geographic dispersion.

    Replies: @Hepp

    , @BB753
    @Hepp

    Our gentle host won't be too happy to hear this, lol!

  152. @SPMoore8
    @Jack D

    Knowing who your parents are is not the same as having any sort of "right" with regard to contact, or a relationship, or what have you. Sometimes it has important medical consequences, as I'm sure you know.

    There are numerous adoptees who have no desire to know, or contact, their biological parents (Jobs comes to mind, Colin Kaepernick is another.) But they often know who their parents were: and I think they should have that right.

    As for guys masturbating for pay: What did you expect? I read the same news stories you do, and overall I think allowing anonymous parenthood is cruel and unjust.

    Replies: @Jack D

    As for family medical history, it will be increasingly superfluous – all of your hereditary conditions are already written in the DNA that is present in every cell of your body. If that was the objection, then you could get a detailed (but anonymous) medical history from every donor or birth parent.

    But the kids seem to want more than that – it is not a practical need but the idea that they need to be somehow connected to their roots and know where they came from. That’s a legitimate wish but again has to be balanced against the wishes of others.

    What did I expect? That the promises made to the donors would be upheld by the institutions of our society. If these same fathers were held liable for child support, would you consider that fair?

    As for being cruel and unjust, the original thinking was that this would be used for infertile married couples and that you would never tell the kid that his father was not really his biological father. Is this cruel?

    • Replies: @Marina
    @Jack D

    When I was conceived in 1988, my infertile, happily married parents were told to never, ever, ever tell me anything. When my brother was conceived in 1992, the thinking had reversed. I learned when I was 10, though the enormity of it didn't begin to hit me until I started dating my husband. I don't want a family medical history. I want to know MY FAMILY. I have a father and grandparents and maybe aunts and uncles and siblings out there somewhere. They're a part of me, and I want them to be a part of my life, and I want my daughter, my father's GRANDDAUGHTER to be a part of theirs.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @SPMoore8
    @Jack D

    #1 - Let me know when parental medical history becomes superfluous.

    #2 - We are simply going to have to agree to disagree. To create a human life and not allow it to know where it came from sound pretty awful to me. So let's let the life so created decide.

    #3 - Sperm donor child support liability: Let me know when that comes up.

    #4 - "the original thinking was that this would be used for infertile married couples and that you would never tell the kid that his father was not really his biological father. Is this cruel?"

    Not only is it cruel, it's fundamentally dishonest, and also selfish, since it puts the interests of the people who want a child ahead of the interest of the life they are creating. Again, if a child doesn't want to know where they came from, fine. But if they do want to know, I am behind them 100%.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Family history will not be superfluous. Many mutations related to Mendelian disorders demonstrate incomplete penetrance, and some traits and disease states are mediated by multiple genes. That makes predicting the phenotypic outcome from genetic code an exercise in probability. Knowing whether close family members from whom one inherited mutations developed the traits or disease states in question still provides useful information that could refine the estimate of probability.

    Replies: @res

  153. @Ullastret
    I am in a gay (male) couple raising kids conceived through donor eggs.

    It seems a bit odd for me that so many people commenting here, who I assumed were sympathetic to the alt-right, which generally includes a belief in the importance of nature over nurture and the irrelevance of the parental environment in the face of genetics, are commenting that kids who don't know their biological father or mother are going to be irrevocably screwed up.

    Resentful, maybe. But lots of people are resentful about lots of things. Including me (and I had a loving mother and father).

    Replies: @Jack D, @SPMoore8, @Marina, @AnotherDad

    I’m donor conceived. I got some pretty good genes from my father (IQ +2 SD above the mean, and I’m pretty) and some not good ones (poor social skills, sperg tendencies, autoimmune disease), but this doesn’t wash away the very real pain of not knowing half your family. I am odd and quirky in ways that don’t “fit” with my mother’s family, and I have to wonder if somewhere out there is another family that shares some of those traits. Is my father really is okay with having untold sons and daughters out there he’ll never meet, and if so, did I inherit that rather cruel sense of detachment? I have never felt close to my social father’s family; am I missing out on real and satisfying relationships with my paternal relatives that I’d have had in a normal family. My brother is donor conceived from someone else, and we’re half siblings, and we’re very, very different. Are there siblings relationships some alternate universe Marina might have had? Somewhere out there, is there a slightly spergy conservative guy with high verbal intelligence and some autoimmune problems who made me who I am? Personality is almost entirely genetic. I want to meet the other people who share my personality.

    My daughter and my husband share personality traits I don’t, and they understand each other in a way I don’t understand her. I’m so, so glad she shares that with someone, has someone who can relate to what she’s experiencing. I’m also glad that her mother is someone who loved her father’s quirks enough to sign up for a lifetime married to them, and thus will cherish her quirks likewise. I don’t know if my mother would have loved or even liked my sperm donor. I don’t think she would have; she finds a lot of aspects of my personality hard to bear, despite loving me. Outside of the artificial situation of donor sperm, a person like me would never have been created, and I think that’s a blessing. It is GOOD that children inherit their personalities. The alternative, where children get traits at random, is much harder.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Marina


    The alternative, where children get traits at random, is much harder.
     
    The truth is, children DO get traits at random - half of your traits come from your mother's side and half from your father's, but each time the a child is born the deck gets completely shuffled so you don't know who gets what. And note that I said SIDE - you might turn out like your father or like his great uncle Herman from 4 generations back, that he never knew. Or like a combination of Herman and Aunt Cecilia from 3 generations back on your mother's side. The way the genetic dice fall, the result that you achieved with your daughter ("a lot like her father") is only one of four broad quadrants that she could have fallen into (the others being "a lot like you", " a combination of both" and "very little like either one of you"). (And of course "personality" is not just one thing - there are hundreds of variables and each one can fall in any one of the quadrants, either at the boundaries or extremes or in between - thus no two people are ever alike).

    It's easy to get wrapped up in fantasies that if ONLY you had grown up in a normal biological family things would have been much different and better, but no one has a perfect setup and chances are that you are attaching more importance to this than it really merits. Knowing your biological family might lead to a feeling of life changing and intense completeness but you might just find them to be a bunch of weird losers with whom you feel no connection at all.

    I grew up with an older half sister (my father's first wife died when my sister was an infant and he remarried to my mother) and there was a lot of friction that my sister felt from not being with her biological mother. Later on in life, she had a chance to meet her biological uncle and cousins (her closest living relatives on her mother's side). Physically they were a lot alike (short and tending toward overweight) but she felt ZERO connection with these people - she saw them once or twice and then never bothered to see them again. Maybe it's good to get the meeting over with so that you don't keep building the fantasy up in your head, but don't get your hopes up that you will feel some magical connection with someone that you don't know - chances are they will feel like strangers to you, because they are.

  154. @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    As for family medical history, it will be increasingly superfluous - all of your hereditary conditions are already written in the DNA that is present in every cell of your body. If that was the objection, then you could get a detailed (but anonymous) medical history from every donor or birth parent.


    But the kids seem to want more than that - it is not a practical need but the idea that they need to be somehow connected to their roots and know where they came from. That's a legitimate wish but again has to be balanced against the wishes of others.

    What did I expect? That the promises made to the donors would be upheld by the institutions of our society. If these same fathers were held liable for child support, would you consider that fair?

    As for being cruel and unjust, the original thinking was that this would be used for infertile married couples and that you would never tell the kid that his father was not really his biological father. Is this cruel?

    Replies: @Marina, @SPMoore8, @Anonymous

    When I was conceived in 1988, my infertile, happily married parents were told to never, ever, ever tell me anything. When my brother was conceived in 1992, the thinking had reversed. I learned when I was 10, though the enormity of it didn’t begin to hit me until I started dating my husband. I don’t want a family medical history. I want to know MY FAMILY. I have a father and grandparents and maybe aunts and uncles and siblings out there somewhere. They’re a part of me, and I want them to be a part of my life, and I want my daughter, my father’s GRANDDAUGHTER to be a part of theirs.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Marina

    I understand your desire. Humans are social animals. They (unless they are nuts) don't live in the forest by themselves - they want and need to be connected to other humans as part of a nation, tribe and ultimately family. They want to place their life in a larger context, be part of a bigger story. This goes way beyond just finding out if you are prone to high blood pressure or somesuch.

    BUT (and I don't know the facts in your case at all), perhaps your genetic father wants nothing to do with you. Perhaps (probably) he was promised at the time that his identity would never be disclosed and he would not have donated if it were otherwise? Perhaps he would consider it embarrassing if this was known in his community? Perhaps it violates some precept of his religion and would cause him to be shunned if this was widely known or it would merely make him a laughing stock before his friends - the man who masturbated repeatedly into a cup for $50 a shot? Perhaps he is the donor father of hundreds of children and it would be burdensome to have 300 of his children and grandchildren show up at his house for Christmas dinner? Perhaps he is concerned that some of those kids will fall upon hard times and bug him for money and he would feel guilty not giving it to them. Are his desires entitled to be given any weight or only yours?

    Replies: @Marina

  155. @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    As for family medical history, it will be increasingly superfluous - all of your hereditary conditions are already written in the DNA that is present in every cell of your body. If that was the objection, then you could get a detailed (but anonymous) medical history from every donor or birth parent.


    But the kids seem to want more than that - it is not a practical need but the idea that they need to be somehow connected to their roots and know where they came from. That's a legitimate wish but again has to be balanced against the wishes of others.

    What did I expect? That the promises made to the donors would be upheld by the institutions of our society. If these same fathers were held liable for child support, would you consider that fair?

    As for being cruel and unjust, the original thinking was that this would be used for infertile married couples and that you would never tell the kid that his father was not really his biological father. Is this cruel?

    Replies: @Marina, @SPMoore8, @Anonymous

    #1 – Let me know when parental medical history becomes superfluous.

    #2 – We are simply going to have to agree to disagree. To create a human life and not allow it to know where it came from sound pretty awful to me. So let’s let the life so created decide.

    #3 – Sperm donor child support liability: Let me know when that comes up.

    #4 – “the original thinking was that this would be used for infertile married couples and that you would never tell the kid that his father was not really his biological father. Is this cruel?”

    Not only is it cruel, it’s fundamentally dishonest, and also selfish, since it puts the interests of the people who want a child ahead of the interest of the life they are creating. Again, if a child doesn’t want to know where they came from, fine. But if they do want to know, I am behind them 100%.

  156. @Ullastret
    I am in a gay (male) couple raising kids conceived through donor eggs.

    It seems a bit odd for me that so many people commenting here, who I assumed were sympathetic to the alt-right, which generally includes a belief in the importance of nature over nurture and the irrelevance of the parental environment in the face of genetics, are commenting that kids who don't know their biological father or mother are going to be irrevocably screwed up.

    Resentful, maybe. But lots of people are resentful about lots of things. Including me (and I had a loving mother and father).

    Replies: @Jack D, @SPMoore8, @Marina, @AnotherDad

    It seems a bit odd for me that so many people commenting here, who I assumed were sympathetic to the alt-right, which generally includes a belief in the importance of nature over nurture and the irrelevance of the parental environment in the face of genetics, are commenting that kids who don’t know their biological father or mother are going to be irrevocably screwed up.

    Ullastret, i get your logic–you’re taking the HBD awareness to mean”parenting doesn’t matter”. What you’re missing is what HBD actually means, which is “genes really do matter”.

    There isn’t much doubt that adoption doesn’t really “take”. Note, i’m definitely not denying the parental sacrifice and the reality of love all around. Simply that the kids are more like–personality, intelligence, talents, skills, attitudes, life success–their genetic parents, than their adopted ones. The data on this are crystal clear. Sometimes all that is overcome with love. Sometimes it’s just a recipe for a “misfit”, uncertainty, unhappiness.

    I don’t want to speak for everyone here, but i think on balance a typical HBD aware intellect thinks something like: Children belong with their biological parents. That’s where they’ll be the most happy. That’s where they’ll really “fit” and feel they “belong”. Adoption is sub-optimal–precisely because genes are so powerful–and should only happen, when there’s no choice. (Death, intractable circumstance.) And even then, biological family–tapping that genetic connection–is to be preferred.

    Like a lot of parents commenting here, i have very little doubt my kids would be pretty like they are even if raised by my neighbors across the street. Their–pretty distinct–personalities were evident early on. I could have guessed the rank ordering of the SAT scores before they were even in kindergarten. I don’t kid myself about my terrific parenting skill. But what my kids know is this is *their* family. They spring from the long line of their ancestors, down to directly from my wife and me. This family is *theirs* and where they *belong*.

    All this gay nonsense, and intentional single-motherhood are creating “adoption-lite” scenarios … on purpose. They are going out and intentionally *creating* children who will not have their full real family with them. It’s selfish and wrong.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  157. @Marina
    @Jack D

    When I was conceived in 1988, my infertile, happily married parents were told to never, ever, ever tell me anything. When my brother was conceived in 1992, the thinking had reversed. I learned when I was 10, though the enormity of it didn't begin to hit me until I started dating my husband. I don't want a family medical history. I want to know MY FAMILY. I have a father and grandparents and maybe aunts and uncles and siblings out there somewhere. They're a part of me, and I want them to be a part of my life, and I want my daughter, my father's GRANDDAUGHTER to be a part of theirs.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I understand your desire. Humans are social animals. They (unless they are nuts) don’t live in the forest by themselves – they want and need to be connected to other humans as part of a nation, tribe and ultimately family. They want to place their life in a larger context, be part of a bigger story. This goes way beyond just finding out if you are prone to high blood pressure or somesuch.

    BUT (and I don’t know the facts in your case at all), perhaps your genetic father wants nothing to do with you. Perhaps (probably) he was promised at the time that his identity would never be disclosed and he would not have donated if it were otherwise? Perhaps he would consider it embarrassing if this was known in his community? Perhaps it violates some precept of his religion and would cause him to be shunned if this was widely known or it would merely make him a laughing stock before his friends – the man who masturbated repeatedly into a cup for $50 a shot? Perhaps he is the donor father of hundreds of children and it would be burdensome to have 300 of his children and grandchildren show up at his house for Christmas dinner? Perhaps he is concerned that some of those kids will fall upon hard times and bug him for money and he would feel guilty not giving it to them. Are his desires entitled to be given any weight or only yours?

    • Replies: @Marina
    @Jack D

    I appreciate that this may be uncomfortable for him, but he made a choice to donate sperm. The fact that he is unable to control all the fairly logical and reasonable consequences of that choice (Sperm makes babies! Babies grow up! Sometimes those grownups have questions about their origins!) is really not my problem. I am an entirely innocent party in this situation; he is not. He. Made. A. Person. You don't just get to sever yourself from that, and he should have considered any possible burdens at the time.

    My infant daughter is extremely burdensome. I signed up for a child, not a child with some rather challenging issues. Am I entitled to leave town and never see her again? Would that be fair to her? Would it be unreasonable for her to expect the odd dinner and letter decades after the fact?

    If he doesn't want anything to do with me, he can tell me that. But then I might still have the option to have a relationship with HIS parents or my siblings, nieces and nephews. Right now I don't know anything about him, or about my history or my own family.

  158. @Anonymous
    @Hell_Is_Like_Newark

    Interesting.

    As strange as it might sound male homosexuals generally possess the quintessence of typical masculine characteristics - they are into sex. Lots and lots of sex at every available opportunity with every available partner. Also, they have the ability to cooperate and bond and teamwork with other gays hardly known to them, for the 'greater good' and to ease the smooth running of relationships.

    So it seems that lesbians have the quintessence of feminine characteristics, namely the spite, cattiness, suspicion and hostility instinctively thrown at anyone who is thought to possibly be 'rival'.
    And I doubt that their sex lives are anything to write home about.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Brutusale

    Homosexuality is interesting because it shows how sexes behave when they don’t have to please the other sex.

  159. @Jack D
    @Marina

    I understand your desire. Humans are social animals. They (unless they are nuts) don't live in the forest by themselves - they want and need to be connected to other humans as part of a nation, tribe and ultimately family. They want to place their life in a larger context, be part of a bigger story. This goes way beyond just finding out if you are prone to high blood pressure or somesuch.

    BUT (and I don't know the facts in your case at all), perhaps your genetic father wants nothing to do with you. Perhaps (probably) he was promised at the time that his identity would never be disclosed and he would not have donated if it were otherwise? Perhaps he would consider it embarrassing if this was known in his community? Perhaps it violates some precept of his religion and would cause him to be shunned if this was widely known or it would merely make him a laughing stock before his friends - the man who masturbated repeatedly into a cup for $50 a shot? Perhaps he is the donor father of hundreds of children and it would be burdensome to have 300 of his children and grandchildren show up at his house for Christmas dinner? Perhaps he is concerned that some of those kids will fall upon hard times and bug him for money and he would feel guilty not giving it to them. Are his desires entitled to be given any weight or only yours?

    Replies: @Marina

    I appreciate that this may be uncomfortable for him, but he made a choice to donate sperm. The fact that he is unable to control all the fairly logical and reasonable consequences of that choice (Sperm makes babies! Babies grow up! Sometimes those grownups have questions about their origins!) is really not my problem. I am an entirely innocent party in this situation; he is not. He. Made. A. Person. You don’t just get to sever yourself from that, and he should have considered any possible burdens at the time.

    My infant daughter is extremely burdensome. I signed up for a child, not a child with some rather challenging issues. Am I entitled to leave town and never see her again? Would that be fair to her? Would it be unreasonable for her to expect the odd dinner and letter decades after the fact?

    If he doesn’t want anything to do with me, he can tell me that. But then I might still have the option to have a relationship with HIS parents or my siblings, nieces and nephews. Right now I don’t know anything about him, or about my history or my own family.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  160. @Hepp
    @Thea


    No, most would say adopt.
     
    Adoption is evil and spits in the face of evolution. Adoption is r selected people creating more of themselves and having them being taken care of by k selected people.

    Maybe if someone comes from a genius line and his parents died, it could be a nobel activity, as you're not looking after your genetic interests but you are raising someone likely to be a benefit to society. But most cases of adoption is putting resources into helping the worst genetic material.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @BB753

    I’ve said this before on other posts, but I’ll repeat it: adoption works best within a family. If a couple is infertile, see if a brother or sister, or even a cousin, will have an “extra” child and adopt that child. The child knows exactly where it came from and exactly why it was given up for adoption. It can retain contact with his or her biological brothers or sisters. There’s even a genetic connection. Sadly, this doesn’t seem to be practiced anymore due, I guess, to small families and geographic dispersion.

    • Replies: @Hepp
    @Diversity Heretic

    Sure, no problem with adoption within a family. A niece shares 1/4 of your genes, half as much as a daughter. But to go adopt the kids of some drug addict or African and dedicate your life to raising them? A sane society would declare that insanity.

    Funny story about adoption. To Steve Jobs' biological mom, it was important that her son be adopted by a couple that were college graduates. She ended up relenting on that point in the end, and giving him to the blue collar family that ended up raising him.

    It turned out that it didn't matter that his adopted parents weren't college graduates, as his genes ensured success. But in a world that doesn't acknowledge HBD, we care about what the adopted parents are like but not what the biological parents are like. It's not considered weird to say "I want my son adopted by a college graduate," but it is weird to say "I want to adopt a child who was born to high IQ parents."

    Replies: @Marina

  161. @Erik Sieven
    isn´t it a but stupid to trust anybody who says he has an IQ of 160 anyway? Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.

    Replies: @William Badwhite, @cwhatfuture, @Whoever

    “isn’t it a but stupid to trust anybody who says he has an IQ of 160 anyway?”

    Yeah. My first thought was “this guy has a 160 IQ and multiple neuroscience degrees and he’s perfectly healthy…and he makes his living jacking off into a jar?”

  162. @Marina
    @Ullastret

    I'm donor conceived. I got some pretty good genes from my father (IQ +2 SD above the mean, and I'm pretty) and some not good ones (poor social skills, sperg tendencies, autoimmune disease), but this doesn't wash away the very real pain of not knowing half your family. I am odd and quirky in ways that don't "fit" with my mother's family, and I have to wonder if somewhere out there is another family that shares some of those traits. Is my father really is okay with having untold sons and daughters out there he'll never meet, and if so, did I inherit that rather cruel sense of detachment? I have never felt close to my social father's family; am I missing out on real and satisfying relationships with my paternal relatives that I'd have had in a normal family. My brother is donor conceived from someone else, and we're half siblings, and we're very, very different. Are there siblings relationships some alternate universe Marina might have had? Somewhere out there, is there a slightly spergy conservative guy with high verbal intelligence and some autoimmune problems who made me who I am? Personality is almost entirely genetic. I want to meet the other people who share my personality.

    My daughter and my husband share personality traits I don't, and they understand each other in a way I don't understand her. I'm so, so glad she shares that with someone, has someone who can relate to what she's experiencing. I'm also glad that her mother is someone who loved her father's quirks enough to sign up for a lifetime married to them, and thus will cherish her quirks likewise. I don't know if my mother would have loved or even liked my sperm donor. I don't think she would have; she finds a lot of aspects of my personality hard to bear, despite loving me. Outside of the artificial situation of donor sperm, a person like me would never have been created, and I think that's a blessing. It is GOOD that children inherit their personalities. The alternative, where children get traits at random, is much harder.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The alternative, where children get traits at random, is much harder.

    The truth is, children DO get traits at random – half of your traits come from your mother’s side and half from your father’s, but each time the a child is born the deck gets completely shuffled so you don’t know who gets what. And note that I said SIDE – you might turn out like your father or like his great uncle Herman from 4 generations back, that he never knew. Or like a combination of Herman and Aunt Cecilia from 3 generations back on your mother’s side. The way the genetic dice fall, the result that you achieved with your daughter (“a lot like her father”) is only one of four broad quadrants that she could have fallen into (the others being “a lot like you”, ” a combination of both” and “very little like either one of you”). (And of course “personality” is not just one thing – there are hundreds of variables and each one can fall in any one of the quadrants, either at the boundaries or extremes or in between – thus no two people are ever alike).

    It’s easy to get wrapped up in fantasies that if ONLY you had grown up in a normal biological family things would have been much different and better, but no one has a perfect setup and chances are that you are attaching more importance to this than it really merits. Knowing your biological family might lead to a feeling of life changing and intense completeness but you might just find them to be a bunch of weird losers with whom you feel no connection at all.

    I grew up with an older half sister (my father’s first wife died when my sister was an infant and he remarried to my mother) and there was a lot of friction that my sister felt from not being with her biological mother. Later on in life, she had a chance to meet her biological uncle and cousins (her closest living relatives on her mother’s side). Physically they were a lot alike (short and tending toward overweight) but she felt ZERO connection with these people – she saw them once or twice and then never bothered to see them again. Maybe it’s good to get the meeting over with so that you don’t keep building the fantasy up in your head, but don’t get your hopes up that you will feel some magical connection with someone that you don’t know – chances are they will feel like strangers to you, because they are.

  163. Sperm banks actually only care about height.
    Okay, they probably also care about STDs.

  164. @Smitty
    "He had blue eyes, was well-educated and musically gifted, just like Hanson"

    It's it just me or is their choice totally irrational?

    When picking genes don't you want different skills and characteristics than what you have already?

    Seems like a narcissistic indulgence, but then again they are a couple of dykes, the whole scenario is a selfish indulgence.

    Replies: @EvolutionistX

    “When picking genes don’t you want different skills and characteristics than what you have already?”
    2 reasons:
    1. Parents like having kids that resemble themselves, both for the normal instinctual reasons, and because it makes life easier because you don’t have to deal with nosy strangers constantly wondering why your kid doesn’t look like you, assuming you are a step parent, etc. (Speaking as an adopted kid, ignorant people told me I looked “just like” my adoptive parents all the time as a kid. It was kind of hilarious. Also, people suck at telling whether a kid looks like their parents.)

    2. People want a kid who has traits they like, and these are likely to match the traits in people they already like.

  165. Hey, everyone. Speaking as an adopted kid:
    We’re not all a bunch of psychological fuck ups who spend our entire lives going “WHO AM I? I CAN’T COPE WITH MY ORIGINS! WAAAAH” Most of us turn into normal adults who don’t actually think about it all that much. It’s not all that different from what kids go through when their parents get divorced and they end up with step parents. Everyone goes through shit in their lives, but most get over it and become functional, normal people.

    The real problem with adopted kids as that they come disproportionately from fuckups. But I don’t think people have many illusions about the reality of adopting a kid with feeding tubes and brain damage because their birth parents were drug addicts who beat their infant.

  166. @Triumph104
    @epebble

    Unfortunately, in the USA, unmarried women and their children are entitled to child support. It would be financial suicide for a man to impregnate a random woman. Athletes are major targets for women seeking a monthly child support check. Many of those same athletes wind up bankrupt due to a lack of foresight in many areas, not just baby making.

    Men behind in child support are constantly jailed, which causes them to lose their jobs or lose their license to practice their trade whether they be an attorney or truck driver. If you search "child support murder", you can read about men who kill their baby mama and/or children over child support.

    Mel Gibson had an out-of-wedlock child. Although, he pays #20,000/mo in child support plus healthcare and schooling, the baby mama is constantly taking him to court. She is now demanding $100,000/mo. The baby was the final straw that ended Gibson's marriage, costing him half his fortune.

    Years ago a Kansas man became a sperm donor to two homosexual females that advertised on Craigslist. He thought he signed away his rights, but a licensed physician was not used for the insemination. The women lied about their financial stability and as soon as the child was born, they were at the welfare office. The state of Kansas has ruled that the man is responsible for the benefits that the child received from the state.

    Replies: @epebble

    Thank you; That is a pretty convincing explanation. I still wonder though, when we have a well developed legal practice in the areas of adoptions, IVF and other assisted reproduction, prenuptial agreements, surrogacy, organ donations/transplants, assisted suicide etc., can’t a legal framework be developed to counter those potential abuses and allow someone to donate sperm the old fashioned way.

  167. @Mr. Anon
    @Jack D

    I am aware of all that, but thanks for the oily condescension. So what? Why should czechs give a damn about all that? It's their country now. Why should they honor the language of an alien people. Your suggestion is idiotic.

    However, if you really think it's a good idea, then you would be cool with Israel's name being changed to whatever "Israel" is in turkish. After all, they governed that part of the world for a few centuries.

    Replies: @Jack D

    That would be İsrail. I would be cool with that.

  168. @Erik Sieven
    isn´t it a but stupid to trust anybody who says he has an IQ of 160 anyway? Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.

    Replies: @William Badwhite, @cwhatfuture, @Whoever

    I wondered why he didn’t say he was a professional golfer as well. I have met maybe two people in my entire life with IQs I might say could be that high – both PhDs in Physics. And these lesbians just happen to find one in a sperm bank catalogue in Augusta Georgia? If this is standard lesbian behavior, I would like to sell them cars, boats, houses, anything.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @cwhatfuture

    Worth keeping in mind that a child rarely gets 100% of their IQ from one parent or the other. In fact, since high IQ's are rare to begin with it, it's a certainty that most high IQ individuals have IQ's greater than either of their parents.

    I listened to the radio interview that accompanied the article, and it sounds to me like these two lesbians are just self-centered in the way same sex people tend to be, and also interested in drawing attention to themselves, and mongering grievances, at every available opportunity. I mean, after they get the wedding cakes, what's next?

    Replies: @cwhatfuture

  169. @Erik Sieven
    isn´t it a but stupid to trust anybody who says he has an IQ of 160 anyway? Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.

    Replies: @William Badwhite, @cwhatfuture, @Whoever

    Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.

    North Hollywood High School’s Highly Gifted Magnet accepts only students with a measured IQ of 145 or higher. I know someone who graduated from that program, and said person is not generally regarded as a suspicious character. I wonder if any graduates have become sperm (or egg) donors.
    The NH HGM website:
    http://www.nhhs.net/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=25389&type=d&pREC_ID=18640

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Whoever

    First rule of High IQ is not to talk about High IQ.

    In the first place, High IQ doesn't confer anything, it would be like boasting about your advanced degrees. And who boasts about their advanced degrees? Either to (a) make themselves feel important in front of others, which is a weakness, or (b) try to lend authority to what they are saying, which is a fallacy.

    I mean I know on this site everyone talks about it, including me, but it is very self-indulgent.

    If I meet someone who starts talking about how high their IQ is I become suspicious, either of whatever it is she/he is saying, or about their character.

    I'm not saying that nobody with a high IQ would sell their sperm. Vanity and thoughtlessness affect the bright as well as the dumb.

    , @Triumph104
    @Whoever

    I'm actually surprised that this magnet program exists. First, at one point in time there was a ban on giving IQ tests to black children. This ban was either from 1986-1994 or 1979 to at least 2004.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/93/1/31?sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/07/02/black-children-denied-iq-tests-in-california.html

    Second, Ron Unz graduated from North Hollywood High in 1979. In 1986 he tried to start the School for Advanced Studies but the Los Angeles School Board wanted racial quotas so the school never opened. I wonder if he is aware of the similar magnet program that opened at his alma mater in 1989.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/no-quotas-no-elite-public-high-school/

    Actress Mayim Bialik graduated from North Hollywood High in 1993. She has a PhD in neuroscience from UCLA. I wonder if she was in the magnet program?

    Replies: @Triumph104

  170. @Hepp
    @Thea


    No, most would say adopt.
     
    Adoption is evil and spits in the face of evolution. Adoption is r selected people creating more of themselves and having them being taken care of by k selected people.

    Maybe if someone comes from a genius line and his parents died, it could be a nobel activity, as you're not looking after your genetic interests but you are raising someone likely to be a benefit to society. But most cases of adoption is putting resources into helping the worst genetic material.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @BB753

    Our gentle host won’t be too happy to hear this, lol!

  171. @cwhatfuture
    @Erik Sieven

    I wondered why he didn't say he was a professional golfer as well. I have met maybe two people in my entire life with IQs I might say could be that high - both PhDs in Physics. And these lesbians just happen to find one in a sperm bank catalogue in Augusta Georgia? If this is standard lesbian behavior, I would like to sell them cars, boats, houses, anything.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    Worth keeping in mind that a child rarely gets 100% of their IQ from one parent or the other. In fact, since high IQ’s are rare to begin with it, it’s a certainty that most high IQ individuals have IQ’s greater than either of their parents.

    I listened to the radio interview that accompanied the article, and it sounds to me like these two lesbians are just self-centered in the way same sex people tend to be, and also interested in drawing attention to themselves, and mongering grievances, at every available opportunity. I mean, after they get the wedding cakes, what’s next?

    • Replies: @cwhatfuture
    @SPMoore8

    What is next after making Christian bakers miserable? Apparently, making everyone else miserable, including their own child.

    Replies: @TWS

  172. @Whoever
    @Erik Sieven


    Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.
     
    North Hollywood High School's Highly Gifted Magnet accepts only students with a measured IQ of 145 or higher. I know someone who graduated from that program, and said person is not generally regarded as a suspicious character. I wonder if any graduates have become sperm (or egg) donors.
    The NH HGM website:
    http://www.nhhs.net/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=25389&type=d&pREC_ID=18640

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Triumph104

    First rule of High IQ is not to talk about High IQ.

    In the first place, High IQ doesn’t confer anything, it would be like boasting about your advanced degrees. And who boasts about their advanced degrees? Either to (a) make themselves feel important in front of others, which is a weakness, or (b) try to lend authority to what they are saying, which is a fallacy.

    I mean I know on this site everyone talks about it, including me, but it is very self-indulgent.

    If I meet someone who starts talking about how high their IQ is I become suspicious, either of whatever it is she/he is saying, or about their character.

    I’m not saying that nobody with a high IQ would sell their sperm. Vanity and thoughtlessness affect the bright as well as the dumb.

  173. Hey iSteve, normally you can’t compare children of women who chose a partner intentionally with those who did not because it would be impossible to determine after the act. But with these sperm bank fraud cases you actually could actually look at the outcomes of fraudulent insemination vs society as a whole.

  174. @Diversity Heretic
    @Hepp

    I've said this before on other posts, but I'll repeat it: adoption works best within a family. If a couple is infertile, see if a brother or sister, or even a cousin, will have an "extra" child and adopt that child. The child knows exactly where it came from and exactly why it was given up for adoption. It can retain contact with his or her biological brothers or sisters. There's even a genetic connection. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be practiced anymore due, I guess, to small families and geographic dispersion.

    Replies: @Hepp

    Sure, no problem with adoption within a family. A niece shares 1/4 of your genes, half as much as a daughter. But to go adopt the kids of some drug addict or African and dedicate your life to raising them? A sane society would declare that insanity.

    Funny story about adoption. To Steve Jobs’ biological mom, it was important that her son be adopted by a couple that were college graduates. She ended up relenting on that point in the end, and giving him to the blue collar family that ended up raising him.

    It turned out that it didn’t matter that his adopted parents weren’t college graduates, as his genes ensured success. But in a world that doesn’t acknowledge HBD, we care about what the adopted parents are like but not what the biological parents are like. It’s not considered weird to say “I want my son adopted by a college graduate,” but it is weird to say “I want to adopt a child who was born to high IQ parents.”

    • Replies: @Marina
    @Hepp

    I've got high IQ genes, as does my husband, but I'd still strongly prefer my kid go to college graduate, reasonably well connected parents were no family members available to raise her. Very clever kids born to blue collar parents often don't reach their full potential, simply because their parents don't know enough to work the system in their benefit. A once in a generation genius might be fine regardless, but a merely smart child would probably be well served by someone who knows how to work the college admissions game. Particularly as we move farther and farther away from meritocratic admissions and hiring, insider knowledge becomes more and more important. I don't like that, but it's the reality on the ground.

  175. @Alice
    @SFG

    No, I'm not sympathetic to families that use donors.

    Amazing what that Catholic church religion stuff would prevent. Following it leads to a better, more prudent life, one that even bottom-half-of-bell-curvers could undertand. Go to church and be thankful for what you have, apologize for what you've done wrong, help those less fortunate, stay married and raise your own children, take care of your parents and grandparents in their old age, don't murder or steal, don't sleep around. And, choose to mate with someone who also does these things, as evidenced by their participation in same church.

    Mirabile dictu! You do these things prevent you from needing schizophrenic sperm donors, prevent you from aborting your own offspring when you are young and healthy enough to have babies, prevent you from shacking up with some idiot who rapes or murders your children while you go find a new honey, prevents you from wasting your money gambling, drinking, whoring, stops you from taking out nondoc loans for homes 7 times your earnings, etc. Etc. Etc.

    To this issue of lesbian eugenics: who except a) the most vain, narcissistic, stupid men who can't work out the possible inplications of random multiple daddyhood to their future emotional or financial well-being would donate aperm? Answer: men so barely hanging on to a normal life right now that they were driven by money or psychosis. But I'm sure that's profiling.

    Replies: @Bill, @Daniel H, @stillCARealist, @Wilkey, @Former Darfur

    I am a sperm donor.

    My wife had her uterus removed after our first and only child and having a 145 IQ and 20/10 vision (but not, alas, the overall athleticism to make it farther than college baseball) I did not want my genes dying out if our daughter “chose childfree” or picked a worthless mate. Plus the pay was good for bait and beer money.

    As it turned out I need not have worried-daughter has given us four grandchildren, all smart and good looking.

    The problem is not that sperm donors are specially stupid or immoral ( until the 1970s, almost all were med students) but that the best men mostly refuse to donate. If you think your genes are worth surviving, guys, quit bitching and take matters into your own hand.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Former Darfur

    How good was the pay?
    Personally, I could not live with the idea of having children out there I'll never meet.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  176. @Hepp
    @Diversity Heretic

    Sure, no problem with adoption within a family. A niece shares 1/4 of your genes, half as much as a daughter. But to go adopt the kids of some drug addict or African and dedicate your life to raising them? A sane society would declare that insanity.

    Funny story about adoption. To Steve Jobs' biological mom, it was important that her son be adopted by a couple that were college graduates. She ended up relenting on that point in the end, and giving him to the blue collar family that ended up raising him.

    It turned out that it didn't matter that his adopted parents weren't college graduates, as his genes ensured success. But in a world that doesn't acknowledge HBD, we care about what the adopted parents are like but not what the biological parents are like. It's not considered weird to say "I want my son adopted by a college graduate," but it is weird to say "I want to adopt a child who was born to high IQ parents."

    Replies: @Marina

    I’ve got high IQ genes, as does my husband, but I’d still strongly prefer my kid go to college graduate, reasonably well connected parents were no family members available to raise her. Very clever kids born to blue collar parents often don’t reach their full potential, simply because their parents don’t know enough to work the system in their benefit. A once in a generation genius might be fine regardless, but a merely smart child would probably be well served by someone who knows how to work the college admissions game. Particularly as we move farther and farther away from meritocratic admissions and hiring, insider knowledge becomes more and more important. I don’t like that, but it’s the reality on the ground.

  177. @Marina
    @SPMoore8

    I'm donor conceived (happily married parents, sterile father). The enormity of this came crashing down on me when I was pregnant with my daughter and I realized she would grow up with something I never had: a father and siblings fully related to me. I see her now, and she has my husband's personality in so many ways, and I'm so glad she lives with someone who understands her. There are huge parts of my personality that I share with neither my biological mother, nor my social father, and it was very lonely growing up. I want the practice banned entirely.

    Replies: @Bill P

    I want the practice banned entirely.

    I’m with you, Marina.

    My dad was a brilliant guy, but otherwise a POS. I got to know him well, and I suffered for it, but it’s far better than never having known if you ask me. There will always be questions. The root of Abrahamic religion could be described as a sort of father-yearning, and that’s an extremely powerful thing.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  178. • Replies: @TWS
    @BB753

    It's the Onion but not as funny.

  179. @Former Darfur
    @Alice

    I am a sperm donor.

    My wife had her uterus removed after our first and only child and having a 145 IQ and 20/10 vision (but not, alas, the overall athleticism to make it farther than college baseball) I did not want my genes dying out if our daughter "chose childfree" or picked a worthless mate. Plus the pay was good for bait and beer money.

    As it turned out I need not have worried-daughter has given us four grandchildren, all smart and good looking.

    The problem is not that sperm donors are specially stupid or immoral ( until the 1970s, almost all were med students) but that the best men mostly refuse to donate. If you think your genes are worth surviving, guys, quit bitching and take matters into your own hand.

    Replies: @BB753

    How good was the pay?
    Personally, I could not live with the idea of having children out there I’ll never meet.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @BB753

    I looked into becoming a sperm donor. It paid, but not enough to make it worthwhile just from a financial standpoint. You could make maybe $150-300 a month if you donated at the maximum allowable rate, and to do that, basically you were not supposed to be ejaculating anywhere else. There was a protocol you were supposed to follow in terms of the number of days it had been before donating, etc.

    I was tested, and rejected because although my sperm count and motility were good, it turned out my sperm had a poor survival rate when frozen and rethawed.

    I got a full physical, more complete than any other I have ever had, including FAA second class and PADI diving physicals. They drew blood, and did a thorough vision and hearing test.

    To be accepted, you had to have a four-year bachelor's degree or have earned the rank of E-6 in the military, had to be under a certain age, but over 21, and had to bring a transcript or DD 214, a driver's license and a birth certificate or passport. You also had to sign a paper consenting to a criminal background check. No felons or men with certain misdemeanors were accepted. I was fingerprinted and photographed mugshot style.

    There was also about a 45 minute interview with two people, a man and a woman, and they asked every conceivable question about my disease and sexual history. I was asked if I had ever had any sexual contact with any other men, if I had had sex with a prostitute, had I ever fathered a child, donated sperm anywhere else, etc, etc, and had to sign a paper which the woman notarized.

    Later, I was told that the company spent about $2,000 testing and investigating each potential donor before accepting the first actual donation. I never did learn what the cost to the recipients was.

    Whether all sperm banks were as thorough and honest as this one certainly appeared to be, I don't know. Now, twenty-plus years later, I regret not having been able to do it. The idea that my genes would live on probably to the end of humanity was one I thought was pretty cool.

  180. @Whoever
    @Erik Sieven


    Anything above 145 would sound suspicious to me.
     
    North Hollywood High School's Highly Gifted Magnet accepts only students with a measured IQ of 145 or higher. I know someone who graduated from that program, and said person is not generally regarded as a suspicious character. I wonder if any graduates have become sperm (or egg) donors.
    The NH HGM website:
    http://www.nhhs.net/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=25389&type=d&pREC_ID=18640

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Triumph104

    I’m actually surprised that this magnet program exists. First, at one point in time there was a ban on giving IQ tests to black children. This ban was either from 1986-1994 or 1979 to at least 2004.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/93/1/31?sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/07/02/black-children-denied-iq-tests-in-california.html

    Second, Ron Unz graduated from North Hollywood High in 1979. In 1986 he tried to start the School for Advanced Studies but the Los Angeles School Board wanted racial quotas so the school never opened. I wonder if he is aware of the similar magnet program that opened at his alma mater in 1989.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/no-quotas-no-elite-public-high-school/

    Actress Mayim Bialik graduated from North Hollywood High in 1993. She has a PhD in neuroscience from UCLA. I wonder if she was in the magnet program?

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @Triumph104

    I looked at the curriculum for North Hollywood High's Highly Gifted Magnet Program and it is primarily AP courses. Arizona's BASIS charter schools have almost the same curriculum with the exception that you don't need to have 145 or higher IQ. BASIS is open to anyone and will have a lottery if there is a great demand. BASIS is so accelerated that kids can either graduate after their junior year or do a Capstone project their senior year.

    There is also a charter school in San Diego/La Jolla for low-income students called Preuss that has a AP heavy curriculum. Sixty-nine percent of the students are Hispanic. The students take 7.4 AP exams on average and 42 percent of the exams are passed. Once again, no IQ exam and the kids are selected at random. They just need to be poor and their parents cannot have graduated from a four-year college.

  181. Back in the good old days, adoption agencies routinely lied about the birth parents. The lies led to nasty surprises for some adoptive parents.

    The New York Times once ran a Sunday-magazine cover story about a couple who, in the ’60s, adopted a baby. This baby grew into a young man suffering from severe, debilitating schizophrenia. He died at 29 of an overdose (accidental or otherwise).

    http://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/14/magazine/what-the-jumans-didn-t-know-about-michael.html?pagewanted=all

    One page contained the social worker’s summary of what she had told the couple at the time of adoption. It was just as Martin and Phyllis remembered: ”I told the J.’s that Michael’s parents were both Jewish. The mother was along in her 30’s, of medium coloring. Her father had died when she was quite young, leaving her with an older mother after her three brothers had left home. She did not have a very good relationship with her mother. She won a scholarship to a well-known college and finished two years of it. The mother had been going out with someone seriously, but he died suddenly of a heart attack and so she could not marry him. She became pregnant quite soon after. She said that if her boyfriend had not died, she would not have become pregnant. This shock led to some emotional difficulty and she later sought professional help for it. The baby’s father was white Jewish, but in character was not one of lasting quality. At this point the J.’s looked very compassionate, and Mr. J. said he could see that the replacement was for her loss. They were both very understanding of this whole history and did not have any questions outside of Mr. J.’s comment.”

    Everything else in the file, however, proved that this sugarcoated description was, at best, half the truth. Yes, Florence did attend college for two years: ”Her grades were satisfactory at first, then Florence was unable to maintain her usual high standards. There was a gradual deterioration . . . and then she had an emotional collapse on Oct. 6, 1945, with behavior characterized by screaming, swearing, shouting and hallucinations.”

    She spent four years in the hospital after that collapse, the file said, during which time she had a ”prefrontal lobotomy.” She was out of the hospital for seven years, but returned and spent nine more years there. During that time she gave birth to a daughter, whose adoption was handled by Louise Wise.

    Florence was released from Brooklyn State in 1962 or ’63 (here, as elsewhere, the medical record has discrepancies) and was enrolled in an outpatient program called Fountain House. She returned to Louise Wise in 1964, five months into her pregnancy with Michael. At that time, she was ”disheveled in appearance, wearing a coat of three-quarter length that was raggedy around the buttonholes and did not fit her properly,” the Louise Wise social worker wrote. ”Her disheveled hair was held away from her face by a red band, and on one occasion she chewed the end of her hair, which is badly in need of cutting. . . . She laughed in an inappropriate manner on innumerable occasions. Throughout the interview she chewed noisily on gum.”

    As for the tragic death of Florence’s fiance, there is no mention of such a man anyplace in the 55-page record. (When I interviewed her brother Herbert for this article, he said he had no memory of his sister’s ever dating or becoming engaged.) There is, however, information about the man described to the Jumans as ”not of lasting quality.” The ”putative father is xxxxxxx,” the record says, and the name of the man is left blank. ”Occupation unknown. . . . She initially met this man at Brooklyn State Hospital, but they were casual acquaintances. [He] attended Fountain House on one or two occasions, and then all of a sudden, according to mother, he telephoned one day and asked her to go with him to his apartment. Florence had difficulty expressing her feelings about this incident, which she does not completely understand.”

    That is when Martin Juman became dizzy and nauseated. Michael’s father had also been a mental patient.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @Stan Adams


    Back in the good old days, adoption agencies routinely lied about the birth parents. The lies led to nasty surprises for some adoptive parents.

     

    In their defense, they somewhat needed to lie. Remember that out of wedlock kids were a deep source of shame for the mother, so much so that there were maternity hospitals specifically to hide these illegitimate pregnancies. Mothers would check in when they began to show and return home a week or two after delivery (sans infant of course). Just as the pregnancy itself was hidden from the uptight society, the cause was also often rather fuzzy. Was it really a date rape? Or was she just as randy that night as he was? Did the adoption agency ever even speak to the father? Did he ever admit to his role? And in the more blatant or egregious cases, who would adopt the son of a serial rapist? The adoption agencies were charged with pursuing the "best interests of the child" so sugar-coating the backstory or spinning a complete fairytale where no sugar-coat was possible, became the norm. And in the end, a lot of adopted kids were never told they were adopted - a fiction enabled by the States which issued bogus "birth certificates" so the adoptee would not be stigmatized by his true origin as a bastard.
  182. @Immigrant from former USSR
    @SPMoore8

    What are the laws in different countries / localities re financial responsibility of biological fathers for the well-being of respective mothers and children ?
    In my age I am not looking to become a sperm donor.
    *
    Unrelated news: Czech Republic to be known as 'Czechia',
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36048186
    Let us commemorate "The Good Soldier Švejk ",
    his creator, remarkable Czech author Jaroslav Hašek and
    famous illustrator of the book Josef Lada.

    Replies: @Flip, @AndrewR, @Big Bill, @SPMoore8, @PiltdownMan

    When the Czechs become wealthy and start lording it over other Europeans, then those lesser mortals will be heard walking around muttering “Czechia privilege.”

    I’m weak and could not resist.

  183. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    As for family medical history, it will be increasingly superfluous - all of your hereditary conditions are already written in the DNA that is present in every cell of your body. If that was the objection, then you could get a detailed (but anonymous) medical history from every donor or birth parent.


    But the kids seem to want more than that - it is not a practical need but the idea that they need to be somehow connected to their roots and know where they came from. That's a legitimate wish but again has to be balanced against the wishes of others.

    What did I expect? That the promises made to the donors would be upheld by the institutions of our society. If these same fathers were held liable for child support, would you consider that fair?

    As for being cruel and unjust, the original thinking was that this would be used for infertile married couples and that you would never tell the kid that his father was not really his biological father. Is this cruel?

    Replies: @Marina, @SPMoore8, @Anonymous

    Family history will not be superfluous. Many mutations related to Mendelian disorders demonstrate incomplete penetrance, and some traits and disease states are mediated by multiple genes. That makes predicting the phenotypic outcome from genetic code an exercise in probability. Knowing whether close family members from whom one inherited mutations developed the traits or disease states in question still provides useful information that could refine the estimate of probability.

    • Replies: @res
    @Anonymous


    Knowing whether close family members from whom one inherited mutations developed the traits or disease states in question still provides useful information that could refine the estimate of probability.
     
    Especially if there is commonality in environments (e.g. similar eating habits, local nutrients/pollutants, etc.). Then family history helps take account of possible GxE interactions.
  184. @Triumph104
    @Whoever

    I'm actually surprised that this magnet program exists. First, at one point in time there was a ban on giving IQ tests to black children. This ban was either from 1986-1994 or 1979 to at least 2004.

    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/93/1/31?sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/07/02/black-children-denied-iq-tests-in-california.html

    Second, Ron Unz graduated from North Hollywood High in 1979. In 1986 he tried to start the School for Advanced Studies but the Los Angeles School Board wanted racial quotas so the school never opened. I wonder if he is aware of the similar magnet program that opened at his alma mater in 1989.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/no-quotas-no-elite-public-high-school/

    Actress Mayim Bialik graduated from North Hollywood High in 1993. She has a PhD in neuroscience from UCLA. I wonder if she was in the magnet program?

    Replies: @Triumph104

    I looked at the curriculum for North Hollywood High’s Highly Gifted Magnet Program and it is primarily AP courses. Arizona’s BASIS charter schools have almost the same curriculum with the exception that you don’t need to have 145 or higher IQ. BASIS is open to anyone and will have a lottery if there is a great demand. BASIS is so accelerated that kids can either graduate after their junior year or do a Capstone project their senior year.

    There is also a charter school in San Diego/La Jolla for low-income students called Preuss that has a AP heavy curriculum. Sixty-nine percent of the students are Hispanic. The students take 7.4 AP exams on average and 42 percent of the exams are passed. Once again, no IQ exam and the kids are selected at random. They just need to be poor and their parents cannot have graduated from a four-year college.

  185. @Flip
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    "Karel Schwarzenberg, a former foreign minister, suggested simply using the name Bohemia, which was used as early as medieval times. “Why are we avoiding the historic name Bohemia, which for centuries served as the name of our country?” a Czech news site, Aktualne, quoted him as saying. “Why do we have to do this artificially and make up names like Czechia?”"

    Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle, @Anon7, @Seamus

    “Why are we avoiding the historic name Bohemia, which for centuries served as the name of our country?”

    Well, because Bohemia is only one half of the country. If you called it “Bohemia and Moravia,” that would be more accurate, but it would sound like a revival of the “Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia,” which Germany established over the Czech lands between 1939 and 1945.

  186. @PV van der Byl
    @TheJester

    It sounds like you were in southwestern Germany, perhaps Baden-Wurttemberg.

    I think you would have seen a lot of blondes had you been living in Schleswig-Holstein.

    That was my experience over 40 years ago.

    Prevalence of blonde hair in Germany follows a north-south cline.

    Replies: @TheJester

    Your geography is very good 🙂 It wasn’t Baden-Wurttemberg but Rheinland-Pfalz right next door.

    I intentionally mentioned “Germanics” as a whole with respect to the blond haired/blue eyed stereotype since Aryan ideology seemed to assume that the Germanic “Master Race” (which included the Scandinavians, Germans, and the Anglo-Saxons) was blond and blue eyed. Ironically, in raw numbers that could not have been the Germans. One would have to look elsewhere.

    However, from comments back, that might have been the Danes or Finns (I’m less traveled in Denmark and have never been to Finland) … hence, the feedback is consistent with Denmark as the “capital” for sperm donors for lesbians wanting their offspring to inherit the genes of the Master Race. As heresy, the point is that Germans, historically the “Gauleiters” of the Master Race, need not apply.

  187. @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    @whorefinder

    My experience with lesbians as tenants and neighbors (in the past I had a bunch):


    Lesbian couples seem to do nothing but fight with each other.. constantly. As a landlord it seemed every time a lesbian couple moved in, one would move out within months, and / or I would get a request to change the locks.

    The relationship meltdowns were epic at times, complete with me getting dragged into one lesbian trying to regain access to the apartment to retrieve her stuff, screaming matches, crying, and other drama.

    The conventional wisdom is that lesbian couples are stable while gay male couples are not. Frankly, lesbians were the most unstable I have had to deal with over the past 20 years or so.

    IMHO, lesbian divorce will be a sight to behold once cases start working their respective ways through the court systems. Family court should be interesting to watch as well. Who will the court favor for custody when both are women?

    Another thing I have noticed (granted, I am not looking at a large sample size here) is that when the lesbian couples go the IVF route, they tend to favor having boys over girls. I would be curious to see what the stats are on a national scale.

    I pity any boy growing up in such a household though.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Triumph104, @AnotherDad, @Brutusale

    The two lesbians whose case brought SSM to Massachusetts had a marriage that lasted TWO WHOLE YEARS.

  188. @Anonymous
    @Hell_Is_Like_Newark

    Interesting.

    As strange as it might sound male homosexuals generally possess the quintessence of typical masculine characteristics - they are into sex. Lots and lots of sex at every available opportunity with every available partner. Also, they have the ability to cooperate and bond and teamwork with other gays hardly known to them, for the 'greater good' and to ease the smooth running of relationships.

    So it seems that lesbians have the quintessence of feminine characteristics, namely the spite, cattiness, suspicion and hostility instinctively thrown at anyone who is thought to possibly be 'rival'.
    And I doubt that their sex lives are anything to write home about.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @Brutusale

    Most of the gay males I know, when they’re having a rough patch in their relationship, tend to like bringing in a third guy to play with.

    The lesbians I know all basically have no sex life. Lesbian Bed Death is real.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian_bed_death*

    Homosexuals of both sexes (can you still just limit it to two?) are just extreme actors reflecting the emotions endemic to their gender: men want to screw everything in sight and women have a headache tonight.

    *I noticed the Wiki on LBD has the lesbian community, unhappy with the true depiction of them as being the dried-up hags they are, has been fighting studies with emotions in calling LBD untrue.

    • Replies: @res
    @Brutusale


    Most of the gay males I know, when they’re having a rough patch in their relationship, tend to like bringing in a third guy to play with.
     
    Has your observation been that this helps or hurts with the relationship problems? FWIW, at this point I consider people talking about their "open marriage" to be signalling that their marriage is almost over. Not a universal rule by any means, but it has been true more often than I would like.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  189. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @BB753
    @Former Darfur

    How good was the pay?
    Personally, I could not live with the idea of having children out there I'll never meet.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I looked into becoming a sperm donor. It paid, but not enough to make it worthwhile just from a financial standpoint. You could make maybe $150-300 a month if you donated at the maximum allowable rate, and to do that, basically you were not supposed to be ejaculating anywhere else. There was a protocol you were supposed to follow in terms of the number of days it had been before donating, etc.

    I was tested, and rejected because although my sperm count and motility were good, it turned out my sperm had a poor survival rate when frozen and rethawed.

    I got a full physical, more complete than any other I have ever had, including FAA second class and PADI diving physicals. They drew blood, and did a thorough vision and hearing test.

    To be accepted, you had to have a four-year bachelor’s degree or have earned the rank of E-6 in the military, had to be under a certain age, but over 21, and had to bring a transcript or DD 214, a driver’s license and a birth certificate or passport. You also had to sign a paper consenting to a criminal background check. No felons or men with certain misdemeanors were accepted. I was fingerprinted and photographed mugshot style.

    There was also about a 45 minute interview with two people, a man and a woman, and they asked every conceivable question about my disease and sexual history. I was asked if I had ever had any sexual contact with any other men, if I had had sex with a prostitute, had I ever fathered a child, donated sperm anywhere else, etc, etc, and had to sign a paper which the woman notarized.

    Later, I was told that the company spent about $2,000 testing and investigating each potential donor before accepting the first actual donation. I never did learn what the cost to the recipients was.

    Whether all sperm banks were as thorough and honest as this one certainly appeared to be, I don’t know. Now, twenty-plus years later, I regret not having been able to do it. The idea that my genes would live on probably to the end of humanity was one I thought was pretty cool.

  190. @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Family history will not be superfluous. Many mutations related to Mendelian disorders demonstrate incomplete penetrance, and some traits and disease states are mediated by multiple genes. That makes predicting the phenotypic outcome from genetic code an exercise in probability. Knowing whether close family members from whom one inherited mutations developed the traits or disease states in question still provides useful information that could refine the estimate of probability.

    Replies: @res

    Knowing whether close family members from whom one inherited mutations developed the traits or disease states in question still provides useful information that could refine the estimate of probability.

    Especially if there is commonality in environments (e.g. similar eating habits, local nutrients/pollutants, etc.). Then family history helps take account of possible GxE interactions.

  191. @Brutusale
    @Anonymous

    Most of the gay males I know, when they're having a rough patch in their relationship, tend to like bringing in a third guy to play with.

    The lesbians I know all basically have no sex life. Lesbian Bed Death is real.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian_bed_death*

    Homosexuals of both sexes (can you still just limit it to two?) are just extreme actors reflecting the emotions endemic to their gender: men want to screw everything in sight and women have a headache tonight.

    *I noticed the Wiki on LBD has the lesbian community, unhappy with the true depiction of them as being the dried-up hags they are, has been fighting studies with emotions in calling LBD untrue.

    Replies: @res

    Most of the gay males I know, when they’re having a rough patch in their relationship, tend to like bringing in a third guy to play with.

    Has your observation been that this helps or hurts with the relationship problems? FWIW, at this point I consider people talking about their “open marriage” to be signalling that their marriage is almost over. Not a universal rule by any means, but it has been true more often than I would like.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @res

    The question is whether or not having anonymous sex with strangers you meet in the bathroom at a club is a relationship breaker or not. In most hetero relationships, it is. I would hazard a guess that in lesbian relationships, it is even more of a deal breaker. With the gays I know, it's just another Saturday night.

    Replies: @Mark F., @stillCARealist

  192. @SPMoore8
    @cwhatfuture

    Worth keeping in mind that a child rarely gets 100% of their IQ from one parent or the other. In fact, since high IQ's are rare to begin with it, it's a certainty that most high IQ individuals have IQ's greater than either of their parents.

    I listened to the radio interview that accompanied the article, and it sounds to me like these two lesbians are just self-centered in the way same sex people tend to be, and also interested in drawing attention to themselves, and mongering grievances, at every available opportunity. I mean, after they get the wedding cakes, what's next?

    Replies: @cwhatfuture

    What is next after making Christian bakers miserable? Apparently, making everyone else miserable, including their own child.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @cwhatfuture

    They've been making their own kids miserable as long as they have had children.

  193. @res
    @Brutusale


    Most of the gay males I know, when they’re having a rough patch in their relationship, tend to like bringing in a third guy to play with.
     
    Has your observation been that this helps or hurts with the relationship problems? FWIW, at this point I consider people talking about their "open marriage" to be signalling that their marriage is almost over. Not a universal rule by any means, but it has been true more often than I would like.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    The question is whether or not having anonymous sex with strangers you meet in the bathroom at a club is a relationship breaker or not. In most hetero relationships, it is. I would hazard a guess that in lesbian relationships, it is even more of a deal breaker. With the gays I know, it’s just another Saturday night.

    • Replies: @Mark F.
    @Brutusale

    A gay couple I know has the following rules for their relationship:

    Outside sex is okay , but no lying about it and don't do it with anyone you wouldn't be willing to introduce to your partner for a threesome (if that's possible).

    Works for them.

    Replies: @Nico

    , @stillCARealist
    @Brutusale

    not from what I've observed. More, it's one guy is going to play around and the other guy is outraged and throws him out. Remember, half the guys in homosexual relationships act more or less like women.

  194. No one has mentioned this little gem from the Simpsons.

  195. @Brutusale
    @res

    The question is whether or not having anonymous sex with strangers you meet in the bathroom at a club is a relationship breaker or not. In most hetero relationships, it is. I would hazard a guess that in lesbian relationships, it is even more of a deal breaker. With the gays I know, it's just another Saturday night.

    Replies: @Mark F., @stillCARealist

    A gay couple I know has the following rules for their relationship:

    Outside sex is okay , but no lying about it and don’t do it with anyone you wouldn’t be willing to introduce to your partner for a threesome (if that’s possible).

    Works for them.

  196. @Brutusale
    @res

    The question is whether or not having anonymous sex with strangers you meet in the bathroom at a club is a relationship breaker or not. In most hetero relationships, it is. I would hazard a guess that in lesbian relationships, it is even more of a deal breaker. With the gays I know, it's just another Saturday night.

    Replies: @Mark F., @stillCARealist

    not from what I’ve observed. More, it’s one guy is going to play around and the other guy is outraged and throws him out. Remember, half the guys in homosexual relationships act more or less like women.

  197. It’s entirely possible that he did have a 160 IQ, albeit perhaps with nothing to “show” for it credential-wise. People with upper-level intelligence or other creative or intellectual “gifts” are more likely to be cursed with the inevitable trade-off of severe mental illness. This isn’t to say that there are no stupid or mediocre people with bipolar disorder, autism or schizophrenia, just that the conditions are more likely to show up in people considered “geniuses” or even those having above-average intelligence.

    The moral of the story is that if you don’t want your kid to end up the next Newtown shooter or a homeless drug addict having a panel debate in his head, you’re better off selecting a dumb jock or a ditz for a mate, rather than an egghead or a musician. Eugenics of the past made a grave mistake in attempting to select for intelligence, before we knew about the links between it and psychiatric disorders. Now that we know there’s a higher rate of schizos and manic-depressives in Hollywood and autistics in Silicon Valley, maybe we’ll start deliberately moving the pendulum in the direction of an Idiocracy, and it won’t look so dystopian after all.

  198. @cwhatfuture
    @SPMoore8

    What is next after making Christian bakers miserable? Apparently, making everyone else miserable, including their own child.

    Replies: @TWS

    They’ve been making their own kids miserable as long as they have had children.

  199. @BB753
    Forget about the milkman, meet the postman:
    https://empireherald.com/dna-test-confirms-retired-postman-has-over-1300-illegimitate-children/

    Replies: @TWS

    It’s the Onion but not as funny.

  200. @Thea
    @SFG

    No, most would say adopt.

    Sperm banks are icky. Also They have a real problem with few quality donors. Like this gentleman, some men have dozens or hundreds of children. What happens if they meet & unknowingly have children?

    Replies: @Paul Mendez, @Hepp, @Stan d Mute

    No, most would say adopt.

    Adopt whom? Since Roe v Wade, the availability of prime infants is gone. Wannabe parents have to go buy Laotian babies anymore. I know a family with two blond and blue eyed sons that also has a couple Vietnamese daughters. The sons are natural. Parents are both blond and blue eyed. Awkward? And these folks were very affluent. If wealthy Americans can’t find white kids to adopt, what are they to do, buy an African?

  201. @Anon7
    @Anon7

    I just found out that Britain outlawed anonymous sperm donation; that's one reason why British women go outside the country to get what they want.

    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2icn8p

    Pretty racy double entendre for the BBC...

    Replies: @Big Bill, @anon, @Stan d Mute

    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)

    This is supportive of my earlier comment. I was adopted as an infant. These little Viking kids look like my own earliest photos. Snow white hair, vivid blue eyes, tall kids. But had I been conceived a few years later, I would have been aborted. My massively over qualified adoptive parents could not have found a little tow headed blue eyed infant no matter how well qualified they were to adopt. This then is the downside of abortion, the loss of potentially productive citizens and frustration of hopeful adoptive parents who may then turn in desperation to adopting African or Asian kids. Is this loss offset by the gains from aborting the underclass future criminals? And to the extent the hopeful adoptive parents simply import new Africans offsetting the mulattoes aborted in America, is there really any gain at all?

    The other comment re the video is that people vote with their feet. None of those women would dream of admitting she is “racist” yet they *all* deliberately conceived blond haired blue eyed kids. Do *any* white women seek African sperm donors or Asian sperm donors?

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @Stan d Mute


    Do *any* white women seek African sperm donors or Asian sperm donors?
     
    I can't find it, but I once saw a parenting documentary about women who had attended Smith College (or a similar one). One white woman had been in a relationship with a black woman (filmmaker Cheryl Dunye). They both used the sperm of a half black/white homosexual man and each had a child. I believe the couple had broken up while the kids were still toddlers.

    On the other hand, comedian Wanda Sykes is with a white woman. They chose to have full-white children. I don't know why.

    I have seen at least half a dozen stories about white couples who went to a fertility clinic and accidentally wound up with a half-black baby. Oops.

    , @Jefferson
    @Stan d Mute

    "This is supportive of my earlier comment. I was adopted as an infant. These little Viking kids look like my own earliest photos. Snow white hair,"

    It is interesting that Jim Croce's son was blond as a child, even though the son is the off spring of a black haired Jewish mother and a black haired Italian father.

    It is amazing that a Caucasian child can be born blond even when neither of his or her parents look like Nordic vikings.

    Sonny Bono and Cher's daughter was also blonde as a child, even though neither parent looks Nordic.

    , @Olorin
    @Stan d Mute


    This then is the downside of abortion, the loss of potentially productive citizens and frustration of hopeful adoptive parents who may then turn in desperation to adopting African or Asian kids.
     
    I'd like to see some firm data on this...and I'm also betting it doesn't exist, because it would have been morally wrong somehow to keep it.

    The women and men I've known who have worked in pregnancy counseling, including abortion services, on all three coasts where I've lived and worked, all have said that the vast majority of abortions are NOT "little vikings."

    Even where white women came in for abortions the vast majority of those were women who regretted a race-mixing fling, or learned about the character of the melanistic sperm donor at the point of pregnancy announcement. And of white women who terminated a pregnancy with a white man, nearly all were for serious medical or genetic reasons, occasionally for economic ones such as sudden loss of head of household income. (People with the capacity for forethought know what is required to raise a genetically solid child.)

    This is how I came to conclude that the evangelical/open borders right's view of white women mass aborting their offspring is a long-standing slander against white women and part of the (((psy op against them))).

    The ones who adopt Asians and Africans do it for virtue signalling (see MG Miles's latest entry at Those Who Can See--the piece on progressivism as a full-blown religion).

    The other comment re the video is that people vote with their feet. None of those women would dream of admitting she is “racist” yet they *all* deliberately conceived blond haired blue eyed kids.
     

    Precisely, Stan. The term in economics is "revealed preferences." But this too is evidence of the (((psy op against white women))): that they consider their own, natural, inborn, genetically healthy preference for their OWN offspring something to be ashamed of. In a society where degeneracy is the currency and peddling it a major industry/sector, genetic shame has replaced other sorts, and preference for one's own white children is now the ultimate fetish and crime.
  202. @Stan Adams
    Back in the good old days, adoption agencies routinely lied about the birth parents. The lies led to nasty surprises for some adoptive parents.

    The New York Times once ran a Sunday-magazine cover story about a couple who, in the '60s, adopted a baby. This baby grew into a young man suffering from severe, debilitating schizophrenia. He died at 29 of an overdose (accidental or otherwise).

    http://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/14/magazine/what-the-jumans-didn-t-know-about-michael.html?pagewanted=all

    One page contained the social worker's summary of what she had told the couple at the time of adoption. It was just as Martin and Phyllis remembered: ''I told the J.'s that Michael's parents were both Jewish. The mother was along in her 30's, of medium coloring. Her father had died when she was quite young, leaving her with an older mother after her three brothers had left home. She did not have a very good relationship with her mother. She won a scholarship to a well-known college and finished two years of it. The mother had been going out with someone seriously, but he died suddenly of a heart attack and so she could not marry him. She became pregnant quite soon after. She said that if her boyfriend had not died, she would not have become pregnant. This shock led to some emotional difficulty and she later sought professional help for it. The baby's father was white Jewish, but in character was not one of lasting quality. At this point the J.'s looked very compassionate, and Mr. J. said he could see that the replacement was for her loss. They were both very understanding of this whole history and did not have any questions outside of Mr. J.'s comment."

    Everything else in the file, however, proved that this sugarcoated description was, at best, half the truth. Yes, Florence did attend college for two years: ''Her grades were satisfactory at first, then Florence was unable to maintain her usual high standards. There was a gradual deterioration . . . and then she had an emotional collapse on Oct. 6, 1945, with behavior characterized by screaming, swearing, shouting and hallucinations.''

    She spent four years in the hospital after that collapse, the file said, during which time she had a ''prefrontal lobotomy.'' She was out of the hospital for seven years, but returned and spent nine more years there. During that time she gave birth to a daughter, whose adoption was handled by Louise Wise.

    Florence was released from Brooklyn State in 1962 or '63 (here, as elsewhere, the medical record has discrepancies) and was enrolled in an outpatient program called Fountain House. She returned to Louise Wise in 1964, five months into her pregnancy with Michael. At that time, she was ''disheveled in appearance, wearing a coat of three-quarter length that was raggedy around the buttonholes and did not fit her properly,'' the Louise Wise social worker wrote. ''Her disheveled hair was held away from her face by a red band, and on one occasion she chewed the end of her hair, which is badly in need of cutting. . . . She laughed in an inappropriate manner on innumerable occasions. Throughout the interview she chewed noisily on gum.''

    As for the tragic death of Florence's fiance, there is no mention of such a man anyplace in the 55-page record. (When I interviewed her brother Herbert for this article, he said he had no memory of his sister's ever dating or becoming engaged.) There is, however, information about the man described to the Jumans as ''not of lasting quality.'' The ''putative father is xxxxxxx,'' the record says, and the name of the man is left blank. ''Occupation unknown. . . . She initially met this man at Brooklyn State Hospital, but they were casual acquaintances. [He] attended Fountain House on one or two occasions, and then all of a sudden, according to mother, he telephoned one day and asked her to go with him to his apartment. Florence had difficulty expressing her feelings about this incident, which she does not completely understand.''

    That is when Martin Juman became dizzy and nauseated. Michael's father had also been a mental patient.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Back in the good old days, adoption agencies routinely lied about the birth parents. The lies led to nasty surprises for some adoptive parents.

    In their defense, they somewhat needed to lie. Remember that out of wedlock kids were a deep source of shame for the mother, so much so that there were maternity hospitals specifically to hide these illegitimate pregnancies. Mothers would check in when they began to show and return home a week or two after delivery (sans infant of course). Just as the pregnancy itself was hidden from the uptight society, the cause was also often rather fuzzy. Was it really a date rape? Or was she just as randy that night as he was? Did the adoption agency ever even speak to the father? Did he ever admit to his role? And in the more blatant or egregious cases, who would adopt the son of a serial rapist? The adoption agencies were charged with pursuing the “best interests of the child” so sugar-coating the backstory or spinning a complete fairytale where no sugar-coat was possible, became the norm. And in the end, a lot of adopted kids were never told they were adopted – a fiction enabled by the States which issued bogus “birth certificates” so the adoptee would not be stigmatized by his true origin as a bastard.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  203. @Stan d Mute
    @Anon7


    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
     
    This is supportive of my earlier comment. I was adopted as an infant. These little Viking kids look like my own earliest photos. Snow white hair, vivid blue eyes, tall kids. But had I been conceived a few years later, I would have been aborted. My massively over qualified adoptive parents could not have found a little tow headed blue eyed infant no matter how well qualified they were to adopt. This then is the downside of abortion, the loss of potentially productive citizens and frustration of hopeful adoptive parents who may then turn in desperation to adopting African or Asian kids. Is this loss offset by the gains from aborting the underclass future criminals? And to the extent the hopeful adoptive parents simply import new Africans offsetting the mulattoes aborted in America, is there really any gain at all?

    The other comment re the video is that people vote with their feet. None of those women would dream of admitting she is "racist" yet they *all* deliberately conceived blond haired blue eyed kids. Do *any* white women seek African sperm donors or Asian sperm donors?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Jefferson, @Olorin

    Do *any* white women seek African sperm donors or Asian sperm donors?

    I can’t find it, but I once saw a parenting documentary about women who had attended Smith College (or a similar one). One white woman had been in a relationship with a black woman (filmmaker Cheryl Dunye). They both used the sperm of a half black/white homosexual man and each had a child. I believe the couple had broken up while the kids were still toddlers.

    On the other hand, comedian Wanda Sykes is with a white woman. They chose to have full-white children. I don’t know why.

    I have seen at least half a dozen stories about white couples who went to a fertility clinic and accidentally wound up with a half-black baby. Oops.

  204. @Stan d Mute
    @Anon7


    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
     
    This is supportive of my earlier comment. I was adopted as an infant. These little Viking kids look like my own earliest photos. Snow white hair, vivid blue eyes, tall kids. But had I been conceived a few years later, I would have been aborted. My massively over qualified adoptive parents could not have found a little tow headed blue eyed infant no matter how well qualified they were to adopt. This then is the downside of abortion, the loss of potentially productive citizens and frustration of hopeful adoptive parents who may then turn in desperation to adopting African or Asian kids. Is this loss offset by the gains from aborting the underclass future criminals? And to the extent the hopeful adoptive parents simply import new Africans offsetting the mulattoes aborted in America, is there really any gain at all?

    The other comment re the video is that people vote with their feet. None of those women would dream of admitting she is "racist" yet they *all* deliberately conceived blond haired blue eyed kids. Do *any* white women seek African sperm donors or Asian sperm donors?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Jefferson, @Olorin

    “This is supportive of my earlier comment. I was adopted as an infant. These little Viking kids look like my own earliest photos. Snow white hair,”

    It is interesting that Jim Croce’s son was blond as a child, even though the son is the off spring of a black haired Jewish mother and a black haired Italian father.

    It is amazing that a Caucasian child can be born blond even when neither of his or her parents look like Nordic vikings.

    Sonny Bono and Cher’s daughter was also blonde as a child, even though neither parent looks Nordic.

  205. @SFG
    @whorefinder

    Mentally disabled? They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    If it were a straight family where the gal had polycystic ovaries or the guy had bad sperm you'd be sympathetic.

    I'm not saying militant lesbians don't create huge problems with feminism--the divorce landscape feminists have created is the big reason I'm seriously considering never marrying. But this ain't that. This is a generic problem with sperm banks that could hit anyone and we're hearing about it because it hit lesbians.

    Replies: @Thea, @Alice, @ScarletNumber, @Big Bill, @whorefinder, @Olorin

    They got screwed by a sperm bank.

    Exactly. Mentally disabled.

  206. @Stan d Mute
    @Anon7


    The Vikings are Coming (BBC)
     
    This is supportive of my earlier comment. I was adopted as an infant. These little Viking kids look like my own earliest photos. Snow white hair, vivid blue eyes, tall kids. But had I been conceived a few years later, I would have been aborted. My massively over qualified adoptive parents could not have found a little tow headed blue eyed infant no matter how well qualified they were to adopt. This then is the downside of abortion, the loss of potentially productive citizens and frustration of hopeful adoptive parents who may then turn in desperation to adopting African or Asian kids. Is this loss offset by the gains from aborting the underclass future criminals? And to the extent the hopeful adoptive parents simply import new Africans offsetting the mulattoes aborted in America, is there really any gain at all?

    The other comment re the video is that people vote with their feet. None of those women would dream of admitting she is "racist" yet they *all* deliberately conceived blond haired blue eyed kids. Do *any* white women seek African sperm donors or Asian sperm donors?

    Replies: @Triumph104, @Jefferson, @Olorin

    This then is the downside of abortion, the loss of potentially productive citizens and frustration of hopeful adoptive parents who may then turn in desperation to adopting African or Asian kids.

    I’d like to see some firm data on this…and I’m also betting it doesn’t exist, because it would have been morally wrong somehow to keep it.

    The women and men I’ve known who have worked in pregnancy counseling, including abortion services, on all three coasts where I’ve lived and worked, all have said that the vast majority of abortions are NOT “little vikings.”

    Even where white women came in for abortions the vast majority of those were women who regretted a race-mixing fling, or learned about the character of the melanistic sperm donor at the point of pregnancy announcement. And of white women who terminated a pregnancy with a white man, nearly all were for serious medical or genetic reasons, occasionally for economic ones such as sudden loss of head of household income. (People with the capacity for forethought know what is required to raise a genetically solid child.)

    This is how I came to conclude that the evangelical/open borders right’s view of white women mass aborting their offspring is a long-standing slander against white women and part of the (((psy op against them))).

    The ones who adopt Asians and Africans do it for virtue signalling (see MG Miles’s latest entry at Those Who Can See–the piece on progressivism as a full-blown religion).

    The other comment re the video is that people vote with their feet. None of those women would dream of admitting she is “racist” yet they *all* deliberately conceived blond haired blue eyed kids.

    Precisely, Stan. The term in economics is “revealed preferences.” But this too is evidence of the (((psy op against white women))): that they consider their own, natural, inborn, genetically healthy preference for their OWN offspring something to be ashamed of. In a society where degeneracy is the currency and peddling it a major industry/sector, genetic shame has replaced other sorts, and preference for one’s own white children is now the ultimate fetish and crime.

  207. @Mark F.
    @Brutusale

    A gay couple I know has the following rules for their relationship:

    Outside sex is okay , but no lying about it and don't do it with anyone you wouldn't be willing to introduce to your partner for a threesome (if that's possible).

    Works for them.

    Replies: @Nico

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