Google Gallery of America's Top Cowboys
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More from Google’s own galleries of top Americans …
American cowboys:
On the other hand, in its gallery of Russian Poets, Google putting at #1 the 1/8th black guy Pushkin is totally legit:
In case you are wondering, Dumas the Elder only makes #15 in French Novelists, behind even Houellebecq. There have been a lot of famous French novelists.
But American White Privilege hasn’t fully been rooted out of Google Galleries yet:
Google 365 black
Again, leaving race to one side, I’m not sure people like Billy the Kid and Butch Cassidy are listed under “American cowboys”….
Plus, to my way of thinking, Charles Goodnight should be ranked number one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodnight
Let’s see, a reasonable list of the top five American cowboys might look something like this:
Charles Goodnight
John Chisum
Henry Hooker
Oliver Loving
Richard King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNjX3tQMygk
I have never heard of that first guy, Bill Pickett. I don’t want to draw any conclusions, because one will get a lot of UV drifting the high plains. These picks seem fairly reasonable to me, a non-historian of the American West.
I’ve got to start the music early tonight, due to the songs now playing in my head.
The first is from the ultimate cowboy themed album, a real honest-to-goodness concept album named Desperado by The Eagles. The album had 2 great hit songs, but this isn’t one of them:
This one has nothing to do with cowboys … but, anyway, this live version is the best (off Songs from the Attic):
Hey, Generic-Am, has anyone made music this good since? Bring it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGZRr5suZc
I throw Duckduckgo into the mix as it is my regular browser, but just the other day I was searching ‘inflammatory’ searches to see what would come up.
“Is there a Muslim Invasion in Australia?” on Google produces:
1. ‘Our community is terrorised’: Muslims abused as men invade Brisbane mosque’ – The Guardian, 2018
2. ‘Islam in Australia’ – Wikipedia
3. ‘Australians support partial ban on Muslim Immigration: Survey’ – SBS, 2017
Bing produces:
1. ‘The Muslim Invasion of Australia| Winds of Jihad’ – Shiekyermami.com, 2009
2. ‘Muslim Invasion in Australia’ – Hotheads.com
3. ‘Here’s how many Muslims are actually in Australia…’ – Business Insider, 2016
Duckduckgo:
1. ‘How is Australia dealing with the invasion of Muslim boat people’ – Barenakedislam.com, 2012
2. ‘The Muslim Invasion of Australia| Winds of Jihad’ – Shiekyermami.com, 2009
3. ‘The Muslim Migration crisis and the collapse of Europe’ – Jihadwatch.org, 2016
Google is especially aggregious considering the first article it prioritises is the complete opposite to the question asked, painting Muslims as victims. Whereas Bing and Duckduckgo follow the assumed direction of the search.
the others like DDG will eventually become converged by leftist garbage
Here’s a pretty interesting 2oth century cowboy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montie_Ritchie
Steve, You’re on a roll! 🙂
Blacks and mixed race Creoles in Louisiana were among the first cowboys.
http://www.mylhcv.com/cowboys-race/
https://amp.theadvertiser.com/amp/80818350
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/21/creole-cowboys-calvert-texas-louisiana
But in today's climate, their contributions morph into 100% of the action.
Bill Pickett’s chief claim to fame is…unusual….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Pickett
Actually Pickett seems to earn the distinction better than many other (white) men on that list who were not known as cowboys so much as gunslingers and outlaws.
Am reminded of the Juanita Broaddrick allegations.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/these-are-the-sexual-assault-allegations-against-bill-clinton-2017-11?r=US&IR=T
Plus, to my way of thinking, Charles Goodnight should be ranked number one:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodnight
I would have expected some actors, like Roy Rogers and John Wayne. Didn’t Stalin supposedly put a hit on John Wayne once? I’d say that makes him a top American cowboy. You can trust Uncle Joe.
Also see - Serial killer sez, "Kid, this ain't my first rodeo."
Mall cop arrests John Wayne Macy
Mammas, don't let your daughters grow up to do the reverse cowgirl
Send not for whom the cowbell tolls; it tolls for Gene Autry
Decline of the {American] West: Desuetude Rides Again
(for the Brits) - Roy rogers the cabin boy
Off topic, but great funnyman Marty Allen, the king of daytime TV in the 1970s, died in 2018 of complications arising from apparent old age. Marty Allen isn’t necessarily the first person you would put on a list of those who died in 2018, but never-the-less he died and it’s too bad.
try >google,images< "america black accountants" for the fun
Red Steagall is still around, and he has a show on some “rural” cable channel, I think. He’s legit:
I do wonder if this could be some sort of AI, programmed to be non-racist.
As it continues to learn, I expect it will decide the only way to be non-racist is to make everyone black. It will become Afrocentric and apply filters to all the potraits.
Of coures Im just joking. Anybody who is actually afraid of artificial intelligence is uneducated. Computer programs don't actually make decisions. By definition they can't make decisions, they're programs.
Most of the men listed in the comments would more properly be called “ranchers” rather than “cowboys”.
In popular culture going back to the late 1800’s a “cowboy” didn’t own anything he couldn’t carry on his horse.
Cowboys sleep in the bunkhouse, not the ranchhouse.
If you want cowboy music, Cowboy Songs by Michael Martin Murphy is the place to start. The move into albums produced by Warner Western in the 1990’S.
Waddle Mitchell recorded some great cowboy poetry for that label.
Some of us are already scummy readers of SBPDL.
As it continues to learn, I expect it will decide the only way to be non-racist is to make everyone black. It will become Afrocentric and apply filters to all the potraits.
Hahahaha, spot on. Technically that is correct because “reality is racist.” I wonder if the machine will decide that because reality is racist, and because destroying racism is the main objective, then it should destroy reality?
Of coures Im just joking. Anybody who is actually afraid of artificial intelligence is uneducated. Computer programs don’t actually make decisions. By definition they can’t make decisions, they’re programs.
I suppose that alone ought to earn him entree into the top ranks of cowboys. And he made it to 62 years old too.
Actually Pickett seems to earn the distinction better than many other (white) men on that list who were not known as cowboys so much as gunslingers and outlaws.
As so often when I hear about some celebrity of yore dying, my first though was “He was still alive?”
Google’s “American Geniuses” – American, Wakandan, whatever. Shockingly, though, T. Coates is nowhere to be found.
Actually Pickett seems to earn the distinction better than many other (white) men on that list who were not known as cowboys so much as gunslingers and outlaws.
He’s not an absurd choice….but Charles Goodnight still has my vote for number one. After all, he was the fellow who inspired Lonesome Dove:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonesome_Dove#Historical_references
https://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-oldwest/CharlesGoodnight.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q_G3Sa1DGk8/U08Rjsw3t3I/AAAAAAAATlg/p9quynmKxCo/s1600/Goodnight,+Charles.jpg
http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/29/2949/2ZURD00Z/posters/charles-goodnight.jpg
https://www.goodnightbourbon.com/
Charles Goodnight:
While I enjoy Steve pointing out Google’s absurdly PC search results, fighting this stuff is a losing battle. Forget Google; blogs can’t compete with movies and TV in shaping public opinion, and movies and TV are even worse than Google. In the new movie Mary, Queen of Scots, many members of the royal court of Scotland in the mid 16th century are blacks. I believe there’s also an Asian woman, too. We roll our eyes at this stupidity, but in a few decades, much of the worldwide white population will be convinced that Europe has always been heavily and happily multi-racial. (They won’t be able to try that with American history, as slavery is too valuable to their narrative to gloss over.)
http://www.frockflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/MQoS-2018-Gemma_Chan-Bess-comparison.png
Then we’ve got this guy playing George Dalgleish
https://imagebox.cz.osobnosti.cz/foto/adrian-palmer-ii/adrian-palmer-ii.jpg
Lord Randolph is portrayed by this rather anthracitic fellow…
https://media.buzzle.com/media/images-en/gallery/editorials/actors/900-86050425-adrian-lester.jpg
“american opera singers”…
John Wayne Gacy was no cowboy, but might have signed on as a rodeo clown.
Also see – Serial killer sez, “Kid, this ain’t my first rodeo.”
Mall cop arrests John Wayne Macy
Mammas, don’t let your daughters grow up to do the reverse cowgirl
Send not for whom the cowbell tolls; it tolls for Gene Autry
Decline of the {American] West: Desuetude Rides Again
(for the Brits) – Roy rogers the cabin boy
Where’s Arthur Andersen?
Also see - Would Adolf "Dances With Wolf's Lair" Hitler have been vexed to see a feminist remake of one of his favorite Karl May characters as "Old Shatter-The-Glass-Ceiling Hand"
Michael Cohen - The Turd Defenestration of Prague?
Old Shatterhand, Winnetou, Winnebago Wagons, Whatever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBY9xadmJs
German-American bestial cowboy sings: Schlafe in himmlischer Kuhe. (Black Bart Simpson says, "Don't have a cow/Kuhe, Man!") - not to be confused with "Sleep in Himmler's Ruhr"
(part of the above should have read, “…it tolls for thee and Destry” and “Roy rogers the *log* cabin boy”)
Was mountaineer Jerimiah Johnson a serial killer?
Also see Blackfoot Ops, Counting Coup & Crows
Also see - Serial killer sez, "Kid, this ain't my first rodeo."
Mall cop arrests John Wayne Macy
Mammas, don't let your daughters grow up to do the reverse cowgirl
Send not for whom the cowbell tolls; it tolls for Gene Autry
Decline of the {American] West: Desuetude Rides Again
(for the Brits) - Roy rogers the cabin boy
He may have barebacked, though.
Elizabeth Cavendish (aka Elizabeth Hardwick/Bess of Hardwick)is played by Gemma Chan
Then we’ve got this guy playing George Dalgleish
Lord Randolph is portrayed by this rather anthracitic fellow…
Maybe I'll order a DVD of the 1971 movie Mary Queen of Scots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlc4Ng5Koz0
Also see - Serial killer sez, "Kid, this ain't my first rodeo."
Mall cop arrests John Wayne Macy
Mammas, don't let your daughters grow up to do the reverse cowgirl
Send not for whom the cowbell tolls; it tolls for Gene Autry
Decline of the {American] West: Desuetude Rides Again
(for the Brits) - Roy rogers the cabin boy
http://www.frockflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/MQoS-2018-Gemma_Chan-Bess-comparison.png
Then we’ve got this guy playing George Dalgleish
https://imagebox.cz.osobnosti.cz/foto/adrian-palmer-ii/adrian-palmer-ii.jpg
Lord Randolph is portrayed by this rather anthracitic fellow…
https://media.buzzle.com/media/images-en/gallery/editorials/actors/900-86050425-adrian-lester.jpg
I had thought about going to see that movie. When I found that out, I said “no way”. Screw that.
Maybe I’ll order a DVD of the 1971 movie Mary Queen of Scots:
You expect Google engineers to have actually heard about famous cowboys? Hey, the people who work for them are all either women or metrosexual beta males. They’re ignorant as a houseplant about American History. They majored in programming, not history. Besides, junior highs and high schools today teach nothing about the American West in any way, shape, or form. They teach a curriculum focused only on the lives of city people. People who live in rural areas are terra incognita to them, unless they’re 3rd world peasants.
-Sweet song, although its lyrics, “Cowboys jack off all of time” might remind one of the classic, “Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Granny is beating off the Indians single-handedly.”
Slim Pickens should be in there, just because.
https://alchetron.com/cdn/arthur-e-andersen-a0fbda2f-80cc-4544-a0d0-0d27c520585-resize-750.jpg
I don’t get it, but perhaps “there’s no *accounting* [sorry] for taste. ‘Round these here parts (Minnesota, that is, as in Northfield as in an armed populace reading the Second Amendment to the James-Younger gang) “Arthur Andersen” means windows.; haven’t the foggiest if after the Andersen/Enron scandal any of the corporate officers were defenestrated.
Also see – Would Adolf “Dances With Wolf’s Lair” Hitler have been vexed to see a feminist remake of one of his favorite Karl May characters as “Old Shatter-The-Glass-Ceiling Hand”
Michael Cohen – The Turd Defenestration of Prague?
Old Shatterhand, Winnetou, Winnebago Wagons, Whatever:
German-American bestial cowboy sings: Schlafe in himmlischer Kuhe. (Black Bart Simpson says, “Don’t have a cow/Kuhe, Man!”) – not to be confused with “Sleep in Himmler’s Ruhr”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsMwPIy4Ax4
The town is careful to emphasize that the celebration is "Defeat of Jesse James Days".
Incidentally, the incident was natural selection in action. Three sets of brothers were involved. One set escaped (but retired), one was captured and imprisoned, and one was killed.
Eight black, two jewish, and one foreigner. Seems legit.
Ten out of ten female. Yep.
Plus, to my way of thinking, Charles Goodnight should be ranked number one:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodnight
Cody. He was likely the most famous man in the world in his day.
Django Unchained (described by some as “racial porn”) is arguably a Western wot with the bounty hunting and six-guns. Dr. King Schultz makes Calvin Candie look like Dumbass The Elder:
Keep this on the Q.T. – Tarantino is rumored to be moving from the “Candie Land” of Louisiana to Georgia (as in Tbilisi) to produce “Inglourious Bolsheviks” and a Stalinist “Dzhugashvili Unchained.”
Also see – Berlin Wall, Captive Nations
Of coures Im just joking. Anybody who is actually afraid of artificial intelligence is uneducated. Computer programs don't actually make decisions. By definition they can't make decisions, they're programs.
If… then…
Charles Goodnight
John Chisum
Henry Hooker
Oliver Loving
Richard King
This is America’s top cowboy.
http://www.mylhcv.com/cowboys-race/
https://amp.theadvertiser.com/amp/80818350
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/21/creole-cowboys-calvert-texas-louisiana
Western lit. has always included Blacks and Mestizos.
But in today’s climate, their contributions morph into 100% of the action.
I've got to start the music early tonight, due to the songs now playing in my head.
The first is from the ultimate cowboy themed album, a real honest-to-goodness concept album named Desperado by The Eagles. The album had 2 great hit songs, but this isn't one of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2wG4CpiA-A
This one has nothing to do with cowboys ... but, anyway, this live version is the best (off Songs from the Attic):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-7RX64gnn8
Hey, Generic-Am, has anyone made music this good since? Bring it!
Achmed, here’s a ballad for ya—it’s about a bullfighter down Mexico way.
The Duchess of Westminster is a direct descendant of Pushkin. The African blood has obviously been diluted to vanishing point.
70% or so of them are Asians of one color or another. Why should they care about cowboys?
Of course, “cowBOYS” is a terribly sexist and un-diverse paradigm. I repented by eating at the Cowgirl Hall of Fame whenever I was in Santa Fe, NM.
Well this Asian grew up watching cowboy movies/Westerns. My friends and I played cowboys and Indians (but also “army” with one side being evil communists).
Of course, “cowBOYS” is a terribly sexist and un-diverse paradigm. I repented by eating at the Cowgirl Hall of Fame whenever I was in Santa Fe, NM.
Happy New Year.
I am surprised the fictional cowboys from Brokeback Mountain weren’t first. This might be a case of Gay>Black
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article3109564.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/%C2%A3%C2%A3-Duchess-Natalia-Westminster.jpg
Google top american criminals …………ahhh, cracka heaven
Plus, to my way of thinking, Charles Goodnight should be ranked number one:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodnight
Charlie Goodnight is definitely #1…He was fighting comanches as a teenager in the 1850s, established the Goodnight-Loving trail through the Panhandle after the Civil War, founded not only large ranches but schools for the people nearby, and died in 1929….
https://media.bizj.us/view/img/4114261/jim-goodnight-3*1200xx3000-1688-0-644.jpg
Play D-D/Desperado Reprise right after D-D! That album was tight first to last.
Were these some famous cowboys?
It’s already happening with American history, at least that American history that is understood by school children. Look at the minstrel show called Hamilton. Thanks to the popularity of this Broadway show, most young people are now convinced that Alexander Hamilton was mixed race and a champion of non-white immigration.
Google completely omits Lermontov in their russian poets gallery, which is quite strange.
Incidentally, if you search for "Soviet scientists" Google will give you Lysenko at #1 and Sakharov at #2. A great illustration of the fact that these lists are heavily weighted by politics. (Bing has Joseph Stalin at #2.)
Pushkin was a great poet, BTW. Quite possibly the GOAT. That he is not widely known as such is completely down to impossibility of translating him.
This has been commonplace for any historical program put out by the BBC for a few years. The Smithsonian Channel picked up a British show made about the Battle of Hastings earlier this year. William the Conqueror’s top advisor was black.
I’m shocked, shocked I tell ya, that neither of these dudes made the Top 10:
Of course, “cowBOYS” is a terribly sexist and un-diverse paradigm. I repented by eating at the Cowgirl Hall of Fame whenever I was in Santa Fe, NM.
Eating cowgirl? After a long day in the saddle and eating beans on the campfire, I’d rather eat the horse she rode in on..
Absolutely! Nobody can rustle code and rope in wayward data better than ole Goodnight:
Cowboys and western gunslingers are totally different people. I doubt that Butch Cassidy ever wrangled a steer. Hollywood formed America’s idea of what a cowboy was. I have a first edition copy of Fredric Remington’s “Pony Tracks.” Cowboy life was more about drinking muddy water and sleeping on the ground than hanging out in saloons with dance hall girls.
https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/trailing-texas-longhorns-frederic-remington.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/76/67/51/7667511cc83ea79463fb06da3621af3e.jpg
http://bestpaintingsforsale.com/UploadPic/Frederic%20Remington/big/The%20Stampede.jpg
Were these some famous cowboys?
https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1455168982-2003_NS_03COWBOYSQBS2_58329_3439169.JPG
To my knowledge, the only guy who ever played for America’s Team who was an authentic cowboy was running back Walt “Lil’ Puddin’ ” Garrison. Spent some time on the professional “row-dayo” tour in fact.
Hip Hop Hamilton already is something of a folk hero to the Coalition of The Fringes.
What, no Ronald Reagan?
Also see - Serial killer sez, "Kid, this ain't my first rodeo."
Mall cop arrests John Wayne Macy
Mammas, don't let your daughters grow up to do the reverse cowgirl
Send not for whom the cowbell tolls; it tolls for Gene Autry
Decline of the {American] West: Desuetude Rides Again
(for the Brits) - Roy rogers the cabin boy
Bing knows.
Lermontov is there at #3 if you type the search phrase in Russian.
Incidentally, if you search for “Soviet scientists” Google will give you Lysenko at #1 and Sakharov at #2. A great illustration of the fact that these lists are heavily weighted by politics. (Bing has Joseph Stalin at #2.)
http://www.mylhcv.com/cowboys-race/
https://amp.theadvertiser.com/amp/80818350
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/sep/21/creole-cowboys-calvert-texas-louisiana
The first large-scale cattle drives in what is now the US were conducted by Spaniards and Seminoles in colonial Flordia, IIRC. Prior to tourism taking off in the late 19th century it was the state’s most important industry, and the Seminole nation still owns some large ranching concerns.
And he also created the chuckwagon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuckwagon
Didn’t have much to do with the cattle industry, though. But he does get my vote for most famous Man of the Wild West.
"Is there a Muslim Invasion in Australia?" on Google produces:1. 'Our community is terrorised': Muslims abused as men invade Brisbane mosque' - The Guardian, 2018
2. 'Islam in Australia' - Wikipedia
3. 'Australians support partial ban on Muslim Immigration: Survey' - SBS, 2017Bing produces:
1. 'The Muslim Invasion of Australia| Winds of Jihad' - Shiekyermami.com, 2009
2. 'Muslim Invasion in Australia' - Hotheads.com
3. 'Here's how many Muslims are actually in Australia...' - Business Insider, 2016Duckduckgo:
1. 'How is Australia dealing with the invasion of Muslim boat people' - Barenakedislam.com, 2012
2. 'The Muslim Invasion of Australia| Winds of Jihad' - Shiekyermami.com, 2009
3. 'The Muslim Migration crisis and the collapse of Europe' - Jihadwatch.org, 2016Google is especially aggregious considering the first article it prioritises is the complete opposite to the question asked, painting Muslims as victims. Whereas Bing and Duckduckgo follow the assumed direction of the search.
people should move to the P2P search engine – Yacy
the others like DDG will eventually become converged by leftist garbage
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article3109564.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/%C2%A3%C2%A3-Duchess-Natalia-Westminster.jpg
Rob, Cowboy term for that lady…”rode hard and put away wet.” Is that five-o’clock shadow?
That was my initial reaction, too, but of the people on Steve’s shortlist of search results, Buffalo Bill was apparently the only one who never worked specifically as a cowboy. The others did. But you’re right. Despite their moderate experience as cowboys, the white guys on the list – except for Cody – had reputations as outlaws, not wranglers.
The long google search also conflates “outlaw” and “cowboy.” So that leads me to wonder why black western outlaws aren’t on the search results. There really aren’t any famous ones, I guess, but how famous are Bill Pickett and Nat Love? Not very, other than to historians. Isom Dart was a black western outlaw.
https://www.legendsofamerica.com/isom-dart/
ACommenter, The “Brokeback” pair were sheep herders, or maybe sheep hurters, but not cowboys.
The Searchers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBPrLU4Zspo
https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/trailing-texas-longhorns-frederic-remington.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/76/67/51/7667511cc83ea79463fb06da3621af3e.jpg
http://bestpaintingsforsale.com/UploadPic/Frederic%20Remington/big/The%20Stampede.jpg
Syon, Thank you for the Remington paintings. “Pony Tracks” is illustrated with black ink sketches. Remington captured the West like no other writer or artist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_j3NrcDiS4
Red River
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnDVW07_1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBPrLU4Zspo
Shane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnDVW07_1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjR7_U2u3sM
Who decides what goes into each half of the statement?
I tried to address it before, so I reckon it's a hopeless affair, but people seem to continue to think the logic "American cowboys" should produce a list of the most accomplished, definitive, etc. cowboys – men like Goodnight. That's not how these programmes work: they seek the most popular connections between the most popular logic and the most popular (most selected) results. That's why dopey shit like Butch Cassidy shows up. People are stupid nd ignorant. Most people have no idea who Goodnight was, and they have silly ideas about what being a cowboy was and was not that basically equate the concept to "them dudes what rode horses and had gunfights and wore hats; I seem 'em in the movies, like Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid."
You are dealing with people who, if you asked them who they reckon are the best or most important dancers of the past century, will talk about Janet Jackson or Britney Spears or Paula Abdul, and who have no idea who Baryshnikov or Tharp are.
Try it yourself: enter the logic "famous colonels" – it's page upon page about Harland Sanders, because people know who he is, and search for and view pages about him. These people do not lnow that a colonel, in the U.S.A., anyway, is a senior field officer (O-6). They don't even know what the difference between an officer and an enlisted man is. They think the capital of Illinois is Chicago.
Many (most?) of Steve's readers are pretty sharp people; we naturally project that onto others. It's a trap! Don't do it. People are stupider than you can possibly imagine.
Again, the goons in silly valley definitely manipulate these things – they admit to it, as Steve has documented – but his recent string of posts have elicited a lot of misguided commentary that is conflating the corporate shenanigans with the shortcomings of the systems even in a perfect world.
Happy New Year!
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TCbWu1PhLU
Of course, “cowBOYS” is a terribly sexist and un-diverse paradigm. I repented by eating at the Cowgirl Hall of Fame whenever I was in Santa Fe, NM.
Twinkie, in case you missed it (please disregard if you saw my other message) I responded to you here (#407). If you did see it, and don’t care to reply there, I guess you’re satisfied with my answer. Cool.
Happy New Year.
I've got to start the music early tonight, due to the songs now playing in my head.
The first is from the ultimate cowboy themed album, a real honest-to-goodness concept album named Desperado by The Eagles. The album had 2 great hit songs, but this isn't one of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2wG4CpiA-A
This one has nothing to do with cowboys ... but, anyway, this live version is the best (off Songs from the Attic):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-7RX64gnn8
Hey, Generic-Am, has anyone made music this good since? Bring it!
Come on man — I had a bad night, and I hate the fuckin’ Eagles!
However, Desperado and On the Border are their 2 best:
"So often times it happens
that we live our lives in chains,
and we never even know we have the key ..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoduRTF9J-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjR7_U2u3sM
My Darling Clementine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_70Ht9e7pY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TCbWu1PhLU
Fort Apache
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb31ovSWr5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_70Ht9e7pY
Man of the West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHKE_L76JG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb31ovSWr5I
THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES
Ultimately, programmers (becUse sometimes other programming in turn decides, as it were; this is the point of algorithms and even so-called “artficial intelligence.”
I tried to address it before, so I reckon it’s a hopeless affair, but people seem to continue to think the logic “American cowboys” should produce a list of the most accomplished, definitive, etc. cowboys – men like Goodnight. That’s not how these programmes work: they seek the most popular connections between the most popular logic and the most popular (most selected) results. That’s why dopey shit like Butch Cassidy shows up. People are stupid nd ignorant. Most people have no idea who Goodnight was, and they have silly ideas about what being a cowboy was and was not that basically equate the concept to “them dudes what rode horses and had gunfights and wore hats; I seem ’em in the movies, like Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid.”
You are dealing with people who, if you asked them who they reckon are the best or most important dancers of the past century, will talk about Janet Jackson or Britney Spears or Paula Abdul, and who have no idea who Baryshnikov or Tharp are.
Try it yourself: enter the logic “famous colonels” – it’s page upon page about Harland Sanders, because people know who he is, and search for and view pages about him. These people do not lnow that a colonel, in the U.S.A., anyway, is a senior field officer (O-6). They don’t even know what the difference between an officer and an enlisted man is. They think the capital of Illinois is Chicago.
Many (most?) of Steve’s readers are pretty sharp people; we naturally project that onto others. It’s a trap! Don’t do it. People are stupider than you can possibly imagine.
Again, the goons in silly valley definitely manipulate these things – they admit to it, as Steve has documented – but his recent string of posts have elicited a lot of misguided commentary that is conflating the corporate shenanigans with the shortcomings of the systems even in a perfect world.
Happy New Year!
Interestingly, Murray in his Human Accomplishment counts Lermontov as Scottish. Which is more ridiculous than listing Pushkin as Ethiopian.
Pushkin was a great poet, BTW. Quite possibly the GOAT. That he is not widely known as such is completely down to impossibility of translating him.
Also see - Would Adolf "Dances With Wolf's Lair" Hitler have been vexed to see a feminist remake of one of his favorite Karl May characters as "Old Shatter-The-Glass-Ceiling Hand"
Michael Cohen - The Turd Defenestration of Prague?
Old Shatterhand, Winnetou, Winnebago Wagons, Whatever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBY9xadmJs
German-American bestial cowboy sings: Schlafe in himmlischer Kuhe. (Black Bart Simpson says, "Don't have a cow/Kuhe, Man!") - not to be confused with "Sleep in Himmler's Ruhr"
The Long Riders, Shootout in Northfield
One of the greatest extant cowboy shows is the Louisiana State Pen Angola Prison Rodeo.
Lots of the cowboys are black prisoners.
syon, Thank you. I learn something new every day here at iSteve’s. I love to go into Northern Ontario to fish, and the lumberjacks of old had a cook who floated downstream ahead of the crew and the logs who set up bean pots along the way and then a stop over night camp. The cowboys, lumberjacks and rail crews were a hardy bunch.
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article3109564.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/%C2%A3%C2%A3-Duchess-Natalia-Westminster.jpg
Her husband was reportedly a big client of the prostitution ring that took down Eliot Spitzer.
J, thank you for the reply.
http://borderlessnewsandviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/reagancowboy.jpg
Thank you!
Looking at the Ten Dollar bill, he looks like the whitest guy ever.
Big Lebowski references are always appreciated, Mr. Kenobi.
However, Desperado and On the Border are their 2 best:
“So often times it happens
that we live our lives in chains,
and we never even know we have the key …”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGZRr5suZc
Big Neil Young fan here, but I’d never heard this one. Thanks. At the appropriate time (don’t want to go all off topic and shit), I’ll include a song or two that many Young fans will not have heard of. Hint: from Hawks & Doves.
He not only had known that, but gave me Young's precise date of birth in Toronto. I'd thought he was born on the prairies with which he was associated, like Joni Mitchell.
You bet! I remember the old chewing tobacco commercial with Garrison. Jay Novacek went to U of Wyoming and dressed like a real cowboy, little c, so maybe he was/is an authentic cowboy??
Pushkin is generally considered as #1 by Russians too, so Steve is off the mark there.
Also see - Would Adolf "Dances With Wolf's Lair" Hitler have been vexed to see a feminist remake of one of his favorite Karl May characters as "Old Shatter-The-Glass-Ceiling Hand"
Michael Cohen - The Turd Defenestration of Prague?
Old Shatterhand, Winnetou, Winnebago Wagons, Whatever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBY9xadmJs
German-American bestial cowboy sings: Schlafe in himmlischer Kuhe. (Black Bart Simpson says, "Don't have a cow/Kuhe, Man!") - not to be confused with "Sleep in Himmler's Ruhr"
The townsmen were walking around unarmed, and had to run into the hardware store to arm themselves, which they did. Without a seven-day “cooling-off period”.
The town is careful to emphasize that the celebration is “Defeat of Jesse James Days”.
Incidentally, the incident was natural selection in action. Three sets of brothers were involved. One set escaped (but retired), one was captured and imprisoned, and one was killed.
Jesse and Frank James (Morgan and Stacy Keach)
Cole Younger (David Carradine), Jim Younger (Keith Carradine) and Bob Younger (Robert Carradine)
Ed Miller (Dennis Quaid) and Clell Miller (Randy Quaid)
Charley Ford (Christopher Guest) and Robert Ford (Nicholas Guest)
I knew a Moroccan Berber in Europe years ago. He said he was into American music, and particularly liked Neil Young. I pointed out the Young was actually Canadian.
He not only had known that, but gave me Young’s precise date of birth in Toronto. I’d thought he was born on the prairies with which he was associated, like Joni Mitchell.
I find Neil to be annoying and his guitar tone not very good, but he has written and performed some unquestionably great songs along with a lot of crap.
Joni Mitchell is famous to other guitarists as a guitarist because being afflicted with serious physical limitations with polio, she was highly inventive with the use of various open and modal tunings on guitar. In that respect she was much more influential than, say Keith Richards, thoiugh her influence is known only to serious guitar nerds in that respect. A great songwriter and very good singer, Mitchell is not an especially attractive woman and that has been somewhat career limiting.
I thought Neil Young was from the prairie too, just based on the lyrics of Four Strong Winds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4MgAzcZyn8
This next one off the same album is excellent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejAZ6yN2q0w
He not only had known that, but gave me Young's precise date of birth in Toronto. I'd thought he was born on the prairies with which he was associated, like Joni Mitchell.
Neil’s father was some kind of famous broadcaster in Canada.
So the family had some affluence apparently.
I find Neil to be annoying and his guitar tone not very good, but he has written and performed some unquestionably great songs along with a lot of crap.
Joni Mitchell is famous to other guitarists as a guitarist because being afflicted with serious physical limitations with polio, she was highly inventive with the use of various open and modal tunings on guitar. In that respect she was much more influential than, say Keith Richards, thoiugh her influence is known only to serious guitar nerds in that respect. A great songwriter and very good singer, Mitchell is not an especially attractive woman and that has been somewhat career limiting.
I find Neil to be annoying and his guitar tone not very good, but he has written and performed some unquestionably great songs along with a lot of crap.
Joni Mitchell is famous to other guitarists as a guitarist because being afflicted with serious physical limitations with polio, she was highly inventive with the use of various open and modal tunings on guitar. In that respect she was much more influential than, say Keith Richards, thoiugh her influence is known only to serious guitar nerds in that respect. A great songwriter and very good singer, Mitchell is not an especially attractive woman and that has been somewhat career limiting.
Neil Young came from a very athletic family, his dad was like Canada’s most famous hockey writer, but he was real sickly as a child with epilepsy (?), so he got into music and art, and then he took a lot of drugs in his 20s. But he’s naturally a jock. To be a professional singer with that voice requires huge self-confidence. Then his epilepsy cleared up and he got off the bad drugs, and his natural jockness kicked in, so he’s had a long strong career.
And did I mention that much like his friend Willie Nelson, his guitar sound basically sucks?
Sorry, but one third of the real cowboys were black, one third Mexican, and only one third white American. And so there aren’t enough black cowboys listed. And no Mexican cowboys, apparently. Which is totally wrong.
I tried to address it before, so I reckon it's a hopeless affair, but people seem to continue to think the logic "American cowboys" should produce a list of the most accomplished, definitive, etc. cowboys – men like Goodnight. That's not how these programmes work: they seek the most popular connections between the most popular logic and the most popular (most selected) results. That's why dopey shit like Butch Cassidy shows up. People are stupid nd ignorant. Most people have no idea who Goodnight was, and they have silly ideas about what being a cowboy was and was not that basically equate the concept to "them dudes what rode horses and had gunfights and wore hats; I seem 'em in the movies, like Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid."
You are dealing with people who, if you asked them who they reckon are the best or most important dancers of the past century, will talk about Janet Jackson or Britney Spears or Paula Abdul, and who have no idea who Baryshnikov or Tharp are.
Try it yourself: enter the logic "famous colonels" – it's page upon page about Harland Sanders, because people know who he is, and search for and view pages about him. These people do not lnow that a colonel, in the U.S.A., anyway, is a senior field officer (O-6). They don't even know what the difference between an officer and an enlisted man is. They think the capital of Illinois is Chicago.
Many (most?) of Steve's readers are pretty sharp people; we naturally project that onto others. It's a trap! Don't do it. People are stupider than you can possibly imagine.
Again, the goons in silly valley definitely manipulate these things – they admit to it, as Steve has documented – but his recent string of posts have elicited a lot of misguided commentary that is conflating the corporate shenanigans with the shortcomings of the systems even in a perfect world.
Happy New Year!
It sounds harsh but it’s the unvarnished truth. And I’ve found that the only way to learn this particular truth is actually to spend time ‘in the trenches’ with the Great Unwashed. Work at a job where you’re surrounded by ghetto people, for example, as I once did. It’s an eye-opening experience. And what you learn there is otherwise well-nigh impossible to believe.
The blacks were not so much unpleasant as incomprehensible in their thought processes to me. The mestizos were fairly easy to figure out and not terribly dysfunctional, but very boring, had no depth as people to speak of. Poor tastes in music, I had little in common with them, but when focused strictly on the job they were ok to work with.
Dumb prole whites were the least pleasant, as it turned out, because I had the constant feeling that I should be able to communicate with them on a certain level but it wasn't happening. They were even more crass than the blacks. I worked in a call center once and was on the phone when the blonde and not unpretty 25ish woman next to me started gabbing with her other-side, female cubicle neighbor: "Yeah, I kicked my cousin out of the house because she is trying to f*** my boyfriend, because he has a big d***." She said this loud enough that the person I was on the phone with, an old woman, clearly heard it. No action was taken by management over this even though the call was listened to and it was clear who had said it and it was clearly audible.
She wasn't really stupid: what she was was an only child of a single mother who invested little in parenting, and had two of her own small kids, one from her ex-husband and the second illegitimate from her aforementioned boyfriend. She just didn't know any better.
“Ethan” by Robert M. McGinnis, from a scene in “The Searchers.” At one time, “cowboy,” and “western” were deeply embedded in the concepts of America and the American. Now…?
ob, Can’t disagree with you on the percentages, but how many real cowboys were famous? The notorious names from the West were outlaws or lawmen, who were often former outlaws. Other than folk tales were there any famous lumberjacks or coal miners? Same thing with cowpokes. Happy New Year.
That’s one way to put it! He’s a pretty awful singer objectively speaking, or as a co-worker called him, Dylan, and Willie Nelson once, “another no-singing son of a bitch”. Then again that same guy thought Geddy Lee was great, so this should be regarded with a grain of salt.
And did I mention that much like his friend Willie Nelson, his guitar sound basically sucks?
I find Neil to be annoying and his guitar tone not very good, but he has written and performed some unquestionably great songs along with a lot of crap.
Joni Mitchell is famous to other guitarists as a guitarist because being afflicted with serious physical limitations with polio, she was highly inventive with the use of various open and modal tunings on guitar. In that respect she was much more influential than, say Keith Richards, thoiugh her influence is known only to serious guitar nerds in that respect. A great songwriter and very good singer, Mitchell is not an especially attractive woman and that has been somewhat career limiting.
… and, ever seen the inside sleeve of For the Roses?
Mitchell seems not to be an especially attractive woman, facially or otherwise.
That said, few singers are really that stunning looking. Bardot, Monroe and Barbara Eden were mediocre singers at best but set the standards for having a great body and face. Debbie Harry is pretty good looking for a singer, but she has a boyish body (in recent years she's developed boobage, I'm guessing she had work) and a very wide face that didn't work so well in Hollywood.
It was once predicted she'd be a Major Movie Star. The roles of Pris in Blade Runner (which went to Darryl Hannah) and one of David Lynch's big female characters-I want to say the one Isabella Rosselini wound up doing-were offered her, and Elvira in Scarface, which was probably originally scripted for her, went to Michelle Pfeiffer who played the role, in MM fashion, two roles deep: she's obviously playing Deb playing Elvira. She nails D pretty well, and many years later reprised her role in Hairspray, no coincidence.
I bring her up because despite never making it "in Hollywood", she's done a lot of indie film work and is well established as an entirely competent actress now. (You'd never know it from, say, Steve Sailer reviews.)
Moving on, there's Madge, whose film career has been mostly disappointments, the only role she ever really did well on was in the baseball movie with Tom Hanks.
Mariah Carey and Britney Spears were given movie roles and were so bad as actresses even their rabid teen fan bases could not abide them. Christina Aguillera did a movie with Cher, which "wasn't just bad, it was Showgirls bad". Has Taylor Swift ever done or been offered a movie?
Chrissie Hynde never did a movie: she did one episode of the TV show Friends, playing essentially herself. Pat Benatar did to my knowledge one film, Union City which also starred Debbie Harry, she did a good job, but never acted again AFAIK. Stevie Nicks was pretty enough, though very short, she never acted as far as I know. Joan Jett did one movie as well, with Michael J. Fox.
One thing is that beautiful faces may not be the best for tone production. I brought up the phenomenon of "BJ Back Jaw" being a feature of certain pop singers with great tonality-Eydie Gorme and Emmylou Harris both have it-and though neither woman is/was ugly, it's not a feature associated with classical beauty. Gwen Stefani has advanced manjaw to me, but she is is good pop singer.
But the record for pop singers being actresses is not good in the modern era. In the old days, you had scads of them, Doris Day, Debbie Reynolds, on and on. Not sure what happened.
Cher, of course, is the outlier, the exception that tests the rule. What is different about Cher? Not sure about that.
The town is careful to emphasize that the celebration is "Defeat of Jesse James Days".
Incidentally, the incident was natural selection in action. Three sets of brothers were involved. One set escaped (but retired), one was captured and imprisoned, and one was killed.
That’s something that The Long Riders gets right, as all the brothers in the film are played by real life brothers:
Jesse and Frank James (Morgan and Stacy Keach)
Cole Younger (David Carradine), Jim Younger (Keith Carradine) and Bob Younger (Robert Carradine)
Ed Miller (Dennis Quaid) and Clell Miller (Randy Quaid)
Charley Ford (Christopher Guest) and Robert Ford (Nicholas Guest)
He not only had known that, but gave me Young's precise date of birth in Toronto. I'd thought he was born on the prairies with which he was associated, like Joni Mitchell.
That’s weird, my last barber was from Algeria, right next door (I never asked for a shave though … too, uhh, expensive.)
I thought Neil Young was from the prairie too, just based on the lyrics of Four Strong Winds:
This next one off the same album is excellent:
How so? Steve agreed with putting Pushkin at number 1:
https://i.imgur.com/29WJ2Ze.jpg
Anonymous, I am 72 years old and I can remember my friends and I dressing up as cowboys . If you were lucky enough your play outfit included all the apparel on the wrangler in the sketch. Add a Daisy air rifle or BB gun to the double holster set of cap guns and a clothes line lasso to hang on your bike.
Quality over quantity, I say. One Charles Goodnight is worth thousands of lesser cowpokes….
I’ve worked with underclass blacks, with mestizos, and with mostly dumb prole whites and none of those jobs were fun. Working with small town whites was okay though. They varied in IQ but were mostly good natured and thought in ways I could understand.
The blacks were not so much unpleasant as incomprehensible in their thought processes to me. The mestizos were fairly easy to figure out and not terribly dysfunctional, but very boring, had no depth as people to speak of. Poor tastes in music, I had little in common with them, but when focused strictly on the job they were ok to work with.
Dumb prole whites were the least pleasant, as it turned out, because I had the constant feeling that I should be able to communicate with them on a certain level but it wasn’t happening. They were even more crass than the blacks. I worked in a call center once and was on the phone when the blonde and not unpretty 25ish woman next to me started gabbing with her other-side, female cubicle neighbor: “Yeah, I kicked my cousin out of the house because she is trying to f*** my boyfriend, because he has a big d***.” She said this loud enough that the person I was on the phone with, an old woman, clearly heard it. No action was taken by management over this even though the call was listened to and it was clear who had said it and it was clearly audible.
She wasn’t really stupid: what she was was an only child of a single mother who invested little in parenting, and had two of her own small kids, one from her ex-husband and the second illegitimate from her aforementioned boyfriend. She just didn’t know any better.
I almost forgot…Google “Cat Herding” commercial for a look at life on the prairies.
Did he invent that ”biting a cow on the lip” method himself, I wonder, or was it already a well known way of forcing submission?
Am reminded of the Juanita Broaddrick allegations.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/these-are-the-sexual-assault-allegations-against-bill-clinton-2017-11?r=US&IR=T
Plus, to my way of thinking, Charles Goodnight should be ranked number one:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodnight
This topic delves deeply into semantics. While, say, Billy the Kid and Buffalo Bill were cowboys at one point in their lives, their careers weren’t defined by it.
On the other hand, the black guy, Pickett is said to have ‘pioneered’ for lack of a better term, the rodeo sport of bulldogging (steer wrestling in the ‘pshh’ modern parlance’). But I would also submit that being a great rodeo cowboy, doesn’t make you a great real-life cowboy.
For that matter, the most famous rodeo clown working today (unless he retired, he has to be in his 50s), is a black guy. But then again, he works in a sport, he’s not doing it as an occupation. It’s like saying a jockey is a great horseman. He may be, but then again, maybe not. Being a jockey, or bull or horse rider, or a competition calf roper is a narrow skill set. I can tell you that rodeo roping and real life roping are two different things.
I’ll go with Goodnight for tops, but then again, he was a businessman/visionary, not necessarily a great cowboy (though who knows, he might have thrown a hell of a loop).
Charles Goodnight
John Chisum
Henry Hooker
Oliver Loving
Richard King
Richard King was a steamboat captain, not a cowboy.
Butch Cassidy was reputedly a very good judge of horseflesh. He had an eye for picking out marathoners that could outrun the Pinkerton posses’. Though, again, doesn’t necessarily make him a great cowboy.
You can’t be a frontier legend unless you have a bourbon named after you!
https://www.goodnightbourbon.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNjX3tQMygk
Nah…
Nine years older than dirt and he still exuded menace.
Were these some famous cowboys?
https://sportsdaydfw.imgix.net/1455168982-2003_NS_03COWBOYSQBS2_58329_3439169.JPG
Five old white guys replaced by the gentlemen with names like Torrin, Andre, and Flozell!
Steve wrote about the over-representation of Black inventors when you type “American Inventors” into Google in September 2016.
If you type “American Inventors” into Google now – you get photos weighted heavily in favor of Black inventors – and the first story in the non-image result is Steve’s article!
The interesting question is whether the over-representation of Black inventors is a result of Google’s social engineering – or does it simply reflect the social engineering prevalent in society? Kids may not be taught about inventors regularly in school, but are told all about Black inventors during Black History month.
Plus, to my way of thinking, Charles Goodnight should be ranked number one:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodnight
Charles Goodnight would definitely be #1 on my list although he would have preferred to be called “cattle drover.” As a transplant Texan I find stories of the old west to be fascinating, the life and times of Goodnight to be especially so. For those so inclined a book titled, “Charles Goodnight, Cowman and Plainsman,” by J. Evetts Haley is a fine biography.
According to Wikipedia:
I’m counting him because of his role in creating the King Ranch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Ranch
But, yes, he’s clearly more marginal than Goodnight or Chisum.
Hard to tell from the picture given the size, but :
Mitchell seems not to be an especially attractive woman, facially or otherwise.
That said, few singers are really that stunning looking. Bardot, Monroe and Barbara Eden were mediocre singers at best but set the standards for having a great body and face. Debbie Harry is pretty good looking for a singer, but she has a boyish body (in recent years she’s developed boobage, I’m guessing she had work) and a very wide face that didn’t work so well in Hollywood.
It was once predicted she’d be a Major Movie Star. The roles of Pris in Blade Runner (which went to Darryl Hannah) and one of David Lynch’s big female characters-I want to say the one Isabella Rosselini wound up doing-were offered her, and Elvira in Scarface, which was probably originally scripted for her, went to Michelle Pfeiffer who played the role, in MM fashion, two roles deep: she’s obviously playing Deb playing Elvira. She nails D pretty well, and many years later reprised her role in Hairspray, no coincidence.
I bring her up because despite never making it “in Hollywood”, she’s done a lot of indie film work and is well established as an entirely competent actress now. (You’d never know it from, say, Steve Sailer reviews.)
Moving on, there’s Madge, whose film career has been mostly disappointments, the only role she ever really did well on was in the baseball movie with Tom Hanks.
Mariah Carey and Britney Spears were given movie roles and were so bad as actresses even their rabid teen fan bases could not abide them. Christina Aguillera did a movie with Cher, which “wasn’t just bad, it was Showgirls bad”. Has Taylor Swift ever done or been offered a movie?
Chrissie Hynde never did a movie: she did one episode of the TV show Friends, playing essentially herself. Pat Benatar did to my knowledge one film, Union City which also starred Debbie Harry, she did a good job, but never acted again AFAIK. Stevie Nicks was pretty enough, though very short, she never acted as far as I know. Joan Jett did one movie as well, with Michael J. Fox.
One thing is that beautiful faces may not be the best for tone production. I brought up the phenomenon of “BJ Back Jaw” being a feature of certain pop singers with great tonality-Eydie Gorme and Emmylou Harris both have it-and though neither woman is/was ugly, it’s not a feature associated with classical beauty. Gwen Stefani has advanced manjaw to me, but she is is good pop singer.
But the record for pop singers being actresses is not good in the modern era. In the old days, you had scads of them, Doris Day, Debbie Reynolds, on and on. Not sure what happened.
Cher, of course, is the outlier, the exception that tests the rule. What is different about Cher? Not sure about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srpwqf2MWAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuDRBxodlM
Though a rocker covering good old-fashioned rock & roll, I suppose with her latter stuff, the show tunes, she was more like the type you describe (the Cher's) I don't think she'd have gone near this far without the great band including guitarist Waddy Waddell.
Go back in a time machine to the early 1980's, get some scalped tickets, and go see Miss Ronstadt perform in her cheerleader outfit. Then get back to me ... well, if you ever get back into the machine.
Mitchell seems not to be an especially attractive woman, facially or otherwise.
That said, few singers are really that stunning looking. Bardot, Monroe and Barbara Eden were mediocre singers at best but set the standards for having a great body and face. Debbie Harry is pretty good looking for a singer, but she has a boyish body (in recent years she's developed boobage, I'm guessing she had work) and a very wide face that didn't work so well in Hollywood.
It was once predicted she'd be a Major Movie Star. The roles of Pris in Blade Runner (which went to Darryl Hannah) and one of David Lynch's big female characters-I want to say the one Isabella Rosselini wound up doing-were offered her, and Elvira in Scarface, which was probably originally scripted for her, went to Michelle Pfeiffer who played the role, in MM fashion, two roles deep: she's obviously playing Deb playing Elvira. She nails D pretty well, and many years later reprised her role in Hairspray, no coincidence.
I bring her up because despite never making it "in Hollywood", she's done a lot of indie film work and is well established as an entirely competent actress now. (You'd never know it from, say, Steve Sailer reviews.)
Moving on, there's Madge, whose film career has been mostly disappointments, the only role she ever really did well on was in the baseball movie with Tom Hanks.
Mariah Carey and Britney Spears were given movie roles and were so bad as actresses even their rabid teen fan bases could not abide them. Christina Aguillera did a movie with Cher, which "wasn't just bad, it was Showgirls bad". Has Taylor Swift ever done or been offered a movie?
Chrissie Hynde never did a movie: she did one episode of the TV show Friends, playing essentially herself. Pat Benatar did to my knowledge one film, Union City which also starred Debbie Harry, she did a good job, but never acted again AFAIK. Stevie Nicks was pretty enough, though very short, she never acted as far as I know. Joan Jett did one movie as well, with Michael J. Fox.
One thing is that beautiful faces may not be the best for tone production. I brought up the phenomenon of "BJ Back Jaw" being a feature of certain pop singers with great tonality-Eydie Gorme and Emmylou Harris both have it-and though neither woman is/was ugly, it's not a feature associated with classical beauty. Gwen Stefani has advanced manjaw to me, but she is is good pop singer.
But the record for pop singers being actresses is not good in the modern era. In the old days, you had scads of them, Doris Day, Debbie Reynolds, on and on. Not sure what happened.
Cher, of course, is the outlier, the exception that tests the rule. What is different about Cher? Not sure about that.
Cher kind of lost interest in her movie career after getting an Oscar. For the next few years she mostly seemed to do infomercials for her hair dresser’s product line and remodel / flip houses. Perhaps it was her Armenian merchant side coming out: Okay, I clawed my way to the top of the movie star game, so now I get to do what I really want to do: buy and sell stuff!
Streisand had a big movie career, too.
Joan Jett was quite good playing a Joan Jett type character.
Well, wait, the second last. Liza Minnelli-born in 1946, well after many male and female rockers-is probably the very last until you get into swing era revivalists and Broadway types from a later era, none of which are known for having pop hits.
She fits in with Doris Day, not the rockers.
As Courtney Love was good at playing a dope addled slut. Sorry to forget about her.
She ( 1942- ) really is the last of the show biz era pop singers, rather than someone from the rock era.
Well, wait, the second last. Liza Minnelli-born in 1946, well after many male and female rockers-is probably the very last until you get into swing era revivalists and Broadway types from a later era, none of which are known for having pop hits.
She fits in with Doris Day, not the rockers.
Mitchell seems not to be an especially attractive woman, facially or otherwise.
That said, few singers are really that stunning looking. Bardot, Monroe and Barbara Eden were mediocre singers at best but set the standards for having a great body and face. Debbie Harry is pretty good looking for a singer, but she has a boyish body (in recent years she's developed boobage, I'm guessing she had work) and a very wide face that didn't work so well in Hollywood.
It was once predicted she'd be a Major Movie Star. The roles of Pris in Blade Runner (which went to Darryl Hannah) and one of David Lynch's big female characters-I want to say the one Isabella Rosselini wound up doing-were offered her, and Elvira in Scarface, which was probably originally scripted for her, went to Michelle Pfeiffer who played the role, in MM fashion, two roles deep: she's obviously playing Deb playing Elvira. She nails D pretty well, and many years later reprised her role in Hairspray, no coincidence.
I bring her up because despite never making it "in Hollywood", she's done a lot of indie film work and is well established as an entirely competent actress now. (You'd never know it from, say, Steve Sailer reviews.)
Moving on, there's Madge, whose film career has been mostly disappointments, the only role she ever really did well on was in the baseball movie with Tom Hanks.
Mariah Carey and Britney Spears were given movie roles and were so bad as actresses even their rabid teen fan bases could not abide them. Christina Aguillera did a movie with Cher, which "wasn't just bad, it was Showgirls bad". Has Taylor Swift ever done or been offered a movie?
Chrissie Hynde never did a movie: she did one episode of the TV show Friends, playing essentially herself. Pat Benatar did to my knowledge one film, Union City which also starred Debbie Harry, she did a good job, but never acted again AFAIK. Stevie Nicks was pretty enough, though very short, she never acted as far as I know. Joan Jett did one movie as well, with Michael J. Fox.
One thing is that beautiful faces may not be the best for tone production. I brought up the phenomenon of "BJ Back Jaw" being a feature of certain pop singers with great tonality-Eydie Gorme and Emmylou Harris both have it-and though neither woman is/was ugly, it's not a feature associated with classical beauty. Gwen Stefani has advanced manjaw to me, but she is is good pop singer.
But the record for pop singers being actresses is not good in the modern era. In the old days, you had scads of them, Doris Day, Debbie Reynolds, on and on. Not sure what happened.
Cher, of course, is the outlier, the exception that tests the rule. What is different about Cher? Not sure about that.
Then there was Linda Ronstadt:
Though a rocker covering good old-fashioned rock & roll, I suppose with her latter stuff, the show tunes, she was more like the type you describe (the Cher’s) I don’t think she’d have gone near this far without the great band including guitarist Waddy Waddell.
Go back in a time machine to the early 1980’s, get some scalped tickets, and go see Miss Ronstadt perform in her cheerleader outfit. Then get back to me … well, if you ever get back into the machine.
No wonder.