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Google's Expensive Diversity Push Isn't Uncovering Many Diamonds in the Rough
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As Ibram X. Kendi and Kamala Harris have explained, racial disparities in performance are proof of malign white racism holding the black man down. So we must have much, much more racial disparities in treatment than we’ve already had since 1969. The good news, however, as lots of TED talkers rush to assure us is that the Law of Racial Equality in Talent proves there must be much overlooked black talent out there so employers will just pick up all those black $100 bills lying on the sidewalk that they’ve been stepping over all these years. It’s a win-win!

But examples of this from after, say, the 1967-1972 integration of SouthEastern Conference college football squads are not abundant. For example, let’s consider the last eight years or so since the Great Awokening in Silicon Valley.

Up through, roughly, Barack Obama’s re-election, Silicon Valley and Hollywood assumed that all this talk about diversity only applied to old-fashioned conservative companies, like oil, but not to them because they were liberal and cool and couldn’t possibly be racist. But after the 2012 Obama campaign cashed its last checks from California, diversity locusts began to descend unimpeded upon Silicon Valley.

The vastly wealthy tech firms responded by throwing money at the problem, but they remain reluctant to actually put blacks in positions of authority over technical matters.

For example, in 2014 Google hired April Christina Curley, a black lesbian with an MA from Johns Hopkins (in secondary school teaching), to recruit engineers from Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU), but finally fired her in 2020. Of course, she’s suing and dishing dirt on Google. From her twitter thread:

@RealAbril
Jan 28
In 2014 when I started, the very first thing Google gave me was their “Project Bison Proposal”, which explained in no uncertain terms how they assessed talent at HBCUs. The following quotes are directly parsed from this document..

Google’s stance was that “our interview feedback case studies and curricula analysis demonstrate that current HBCU CS Departments are not graduating strong technical talent. HBCU CS students struggle with the most basic of coding, algorithms and data structures.”

“The first step is to help Howard students meet the Google bar — it’s also the right thing to do for the future of diversity in technology. With this huge percentage of the pool currently not hirable, we need to look at ways to impact change in the HBCU system.”

“Banned interview questions and feedback, as asked through mock interviews at Howard University by Google Software Engineers. Howard CS students severely struggled with basic coding, algorithms and data structures.”

“We interviewed CandidateA, a graduating CS Senior, in May 2013. CandidateA was a faculty referral and allegedly one of the best CS students at Howard. Interview score of 1.1;”

“Strong No Move Forward. Couldn’t handle basic algorithms. Couldn’t handle working with java collections beyond absolute surface level. Does not understand code in any depth.”

TO BE CLEAR THESE ARE THE WORDS OF GOOGLE. The time I spent recruiting at HBCUs says otherwise by the way. The kids at Howard and every other school I worked with are simply BRILLIANT. Period.

Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.

Anyway, Google poured a lot of money into revamping the Howard U. computer science program, but apparently to not much avail, at least so far. Here’s a graph from the Washington Post:

So Google has successfully fought the plague of White Supremacy by reducing the white share of their technical workers from a disgraceful 62% in 2014 (and what did Google ever accomplish up through 2014?) to 48% in 2020, but mostly through the expedient of boosting its share of white-adjacent Asians from 35% to 48%.

The problem for HBCUs is that non-HBCU colleges are so hungry for black talent — e.g., Robert Covington is the only basketball player from any HBCU in the NBA — that HBCUs are stuck with mediocrities like Ibram X. Kendi and Kamala Harris.

 
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  1. Which is she? Full Dolezso, or a quarter black? Hard to tell.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @Anon

    Normally even lite skinned black women like Wanda Sykes can "pass" easily "for black".....

    She looks vaguely P. Rican or maybe....Greek even?

  2. Are they even mediocre?

    • LOL: Father O'Hara
  3. Abe says:

    Almost certainly the white percentage at Google, Facebook, and Twitter went down because their most capable and adventurous whites went off to new start-ups even as Google, Facebook, and Twitter themselves became less startup-like. Asians probably are happy to grind away in these Forbidden Cities of the Peninsula (e.g. Google Plex) to millionaire-hood by their mid-30’s and then lifetime financial independence by their 40’s, all while never having to pay for a lunch or a massage along the way. Notice the white percentage at more established, staid companies like Microsoft and Apple changed much less, as most of the whites there were already more buttoned-down lifers.

  4. MIC says:

    Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions. At the end of each interview the interviewer sends out a yay/nay email to everyone on the interview loop, with a phone call to the next interviewer who won’t have time to read your email. If you get two or three nays in a row you’ll be sent packing, never getting to the hiring manager. A successful candidate usually goes through a 5 to 6 hour interview day. Few pretenders can get through their doors.

    But these companies have become so damn woke, I see them eventually coming up with alternative interviews with softball questions for their affirmative action hires, or just create lots of useless, non-technical positions for them but with fancy sounding names, like “Program Manager”, which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs. It’s no different than colleges coming with STEM sounding majors that aren’t really technical, like “Human Biology” for those who can’t hack real biology, or “Computers and Society” for those who can’t hack real CS, just so they could graduate more minority “STEM” majors.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @MIC

    "“Program Manager”, which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs"

    Tendency these days in the UK to be attractive youngish women, whose job it is to decide between the various alternatives the techies offer, because they don't have the knowledge or training to have their own ideas.


    Doesn't work too badly as the techies gaze into their baby blue eyes and are generally honest, although I miss the days when PMs were former techies who could call out any BS.

    , @Elmer T. Jones
    @MIC

    Pros would never stand for this interview abuse. It's time to re-release my timeless classic "Employment Game - What "they" don't want you to know about finding work in a feminized economy".

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    , @theMann
    @MIC

    "Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions."


    Oh, is that what Microsoft is doing? Leaving aside, for the moment, that Microsoft has yet to hire a single human being who could write a coherent English sentence, I have to say AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS IN IT, that Microsoft primarily hires people on their ability to obfuscate, prevaricate, and generally avoid ever solving a problem.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @joe_mama
    @MIC

    Right on with PMs these days. Most are essentially glorified administrative assistants/secretaries. We don't call them that of course.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    , @Sebastian Hawks
    @MIC

    Yeh, my half assed company had a real chump for an HR manager and they too ran these 3 day interviews and all they managed to settle upon was hiring these psychopaths and con artist type compulsive liars. Total opportunists who hung around for a few months lying up themselves before quitting when they figured out they weren't going to get to be in charge. One of the managers complained to us about their hires, he said there are two types of people: good workers and good interviewers, they got only good interviewers. Another guy said all the people he overrode the chump in HR are quiet dedicated workers who are still around, all the ones the HR chump was all impressed with are gone.

  5. Anonymous[403] • Disclaimer says:

    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Anonymous

    Shaniquas posting their L's online

    , @El Dato
    @Anonymous

    2007-02-27

    "Shameful Honey" sounds like a good name for a dating site.

    https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/


    Maybe it's foolish to begin interviewing a programmer without looking at their code first. At Vertigo, we require a code sample before we even proceed to the phone interview stage. And our on-site interview includes a small coding exercise. Nothing difficult, mind you, just a basic exercise to go through the motions of building a small application in an hour or so. Although there have been one or two notable flame-outs, for the most part, this strategy has worked well for us. It lets us focus on actual software engineering in the interview without resorting to tedious puzzle questions.
     
    Reminds me of the time my interview led me to having to pass a online multiple-answer quiz about Enterprise Java Beans with a strong caution to Not use Google or Forfeit the Test Immediately resulting in:

    - Indian accents on the audio.
    - Stupid question about irrelevant details that you don't know if you haven't come out of EJB class half an hour ago.
    - Obsolete questions from 5 years ago.
    - No general understanding required.
    - Me using Google in anger.

    EJB is the rear sphincter of "Big & Serious Enterprise Programming" in any case. Endless consulting fees solving the same problem fucked up by previous consultants over and over again are to be had.

    I wish I was dead inside enough so that I could go for that kind of money.

    Replies: @propagandist hacker

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Anonymous

    I get the feeling that if it weren't for the "one drop" rule, these companies would have no black engineers at all.

    , @Escher
    @Anonymous

    Blacks can’t even do a good job of hiring their fellow blacks...

  6. • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @JohnnyWalker123

    (To the tune of "I'm A Boy" by The Who:)

    The Cat in the Hat has come for me,

    A pill and a jab (he thinks I can't see),

    He wants to jab my sister too,

    But I'm her brother and that won't do.


    I'm a boy, I'm a boy, I won't let the Cat get near me,

    I'm a boy, I'm a boy, Mum and Dad, can you even hear me?

    , @AndrewR
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The BB is the new Onion. The Onion itself has become humorless and fully regime-compliant.

    Replies: @Anon55uu, @Sick 'n Tired

  7. Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.

    That’s likely true, but it’s also that she is not bright enough to even ascertain whether these Howard grads are actually brilliant or not. She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Back when I was doing some software work: “Do you have Visual Basic?” “What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It’s not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that’s what you mean, you dumb broad.” I didn’t get hired, but that’s not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Oh, and Google and all the rest of them should stop freakin’ calling these people engineers. Almost NONE of them are engineers. They are software developers or programmers.

    • Thanks: SafeNow
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?
     
    Yes, all of them.

    Do you have Visual Basic?
     
    Why didn't you just say "yes"?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education, @Badger Down

    , @anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Back when I was doing some software work: “Do you have Visual Basic?” “What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It’s not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that’s what you mean, you dumb broad.” I didn’t get hired, but that’s not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Insufficiently autistic, no doubt.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Forbes
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Back in the '80s--the 1980s, in the 20th century!--I worked for a gas & electric utility, located in the Mountain West. We had a summer intern program (back when interns were paid a salary) for engineering students at Florida A&M University, a HBCU, as a pipeline to hiring minority (black) engineering graduates. This is (obviously) well before 21st century virtue-signaling of diversity, inclusion, equity. This program went on for years (pre- and post- my tenure with the company).

    Jobs offers were regularly made to those graduated interns. I an unaware of any who ever accepted the job offer made for the entry-level training program for engineers. I'm sure someone was once hired, so it wasn't entirely fruitless, but...

    , @Pericles
    @Achmed E. Newman


    She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

     

    Not just HR but also roughly all third party recruiters, lol. I sometimes wonder how this situation can persist year after year.
    , @Jack Armstrong
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Why didn’t G**gle hire the guy who tried to piggyback into that apartment building and then made the guy’s kid cry and videoed it all? Wasn’t he a “software engineer”? He seemed nine.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  8. Right, April Christina Curley, secondary school teacher, knows that these kids are brilliant but the Google engineers think that they are no damn good at writing code. What do Google software engineers know about programming? Buncha racists.

    The hilarious thing is that April Christina Curley is so clueless and self centered that she expects the public to accept her judgment over that of the Google programmers. The sad thing is that in 2021 she is probably right.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D


    The hilarious thing is that April Christina Curley is so clueless and self centered that she expects the public to accept her judgment over that of the Google programmers.
     
    There's been a lot of commentary on how left and right exist in realms not just of different opinions but now also of different facts (or non-facts and facts), but this April Curley case is the inversion of that. She's posting Google's objective, rational assessments of why her candidates didn't get hired, but to her that is not objective evidence of her own failure, that is objective evidence of Google's malfeasance.

    Alongside the separate realities phenomenon, there is increasingly also this same-reality-but-opposite-conclusions phenomenon. Both phenomena are unconducive to social peace.

    Her lawyer must be pulling his hair out. He should relax though. As you suggest, in 2021 and beyond, these busted flushes increasingly look like winning hands.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Jack D

    One of my duties before I retired from my state's Department of Public Health was interviewing candidates for programming positions within my unit. The HR department kept sending over "brilliant" Negro candidates for these positions who, when asked to write solutions to basic coding problems, did not have a clue how to proceed. (BTW, we made it clear during interviews that we were not concerned with coding syntax, just an understanding of basic concepts like looping, branching, arrays and the like and, for SQL, inner and outer joins and filters.) The candidates we interviewed were: (1) dressed to the nines; (2) extremely glib; (3) obviously either thought that they were smart and fast-talking enough to pull the wool over the eyes of interviewers or - a more frightening thought - really did think they were qualified for IT work; and (4) didn't have a basic understanding of even the most fundamental programming concepts let alone how to apply these to solving very simple coding exercises.

    When we provided detailed written summaries of why we refused to hire the "brilliant" candidates, which HR was sending us, the information we provided was ignored. We were asked, over and over again, why we refused to hire these "very qualified" candidates. Eventually rumors began floating that our interview process and we interviewers were "racist". Ultimately our unit's hiring problems were solved by the extremely expensive expedient of arranging for a consulting firm to supply us with some of their coders. That way we could bypass the absurdly complicated state hiring process and the usually rather stupid and always profoundly computer illiterate HR staff who administered it.

    I am so glad to be free of this nonsense.

    , @joe_mama
    @Jack D

    The irony is that the Google hiring process is designed to be incredibly objective on evaluating a prospective candidate. They're tough, as Google focuses primarily on academic algorithmic questions which favors recent college grads than industry veterans who've been out of school for a while.

    Once at the the onsite, you're interviewed by the panel. Each one gives their feedback and assigns a score to the candidate.

    That feedback is taken and evaluated by a different panel/committee on whether to hire/not hire.

    And once a candidate is hired, yet another panel comes up with their offer/compensation package.

    Not talked about, but many have speculated that the process was designed to weed out nepotism that is quite prevalent in the valley.

  9. It’s amazing that with all this screaming about diversity in Silicon Valley, no one ever talks about the mass flooding of H1bs into the software industry. Truly remarkable.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My understanding is that these technical interviews have increased due to H1-Bs lying about their education and skills.

    Replies: @International Jew

    , @Cato
    @JohnnyWalker123


    It’s amazing that with all this screaming about diversity in Silicon Valley, no one ever talks about the mass flooding of H1bs into the software industry. Truly remarkable.

     

    Not amazing. Not remarkable. Screaming about diversity and mass flooding of H1bs are just two fronts in the war against whites.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  10. Anon[716] • Disclaimer says:

    April is a good example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. She’s so stupid she can’t assess the brains of another person. If she was smart enough to code herself, she’d be able to spot a dummy who couldn’t code.

    By the way, if Historic Black Colleges are graduating programmers who can’t code, their classes are a retarded joke.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Anon

    By the way, if Historic Black Colleges are graduating programmers who can’t code, their classes are a retarded joke.

    That's one explanation.

    , @Luzzatto
    @Anon

    No wealthy White Democrat elitist would ever send their daughter or son to an HBCU over Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Stanford for example, no matter how Woke they are and no matter how many Black Lives Matter signs they put in their front lawns!

    Replies: @bomag

    , @J.Ross
    @Anon

    Dunning-Kruger is a moronic rebranding of sophomorism. It is the false confidence larval academics have from a little knowledge, which they regret once they achieve mastery. This is what Dunning's and Kruger's actual research followed. It has since been relied upon by the lyingpress to sell the Emperor's New Clothes, since the people who claim the Emperor is naked rarely have a tailoring license, and therefore must be wrong and stupid. This example is actually far worse than a sophomoric computer sciences student misjudging his colleagues. April isn't at the level of a sophomoric student in the field. She doesn't soffer from a little over-relied-upon computer knowledge, rather she doesn't have any.

    Replies: @sayless, @Anon

    , @AceDeuce
    @Anon

    Negroes literally can't see past "negro". That's sufficient for them.

  11. @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.
     
    That's likely true, but it's also that she is not bright enough to even ascertain whether these Howard grads are actually brilliant or not. She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Back when I was doing some software work: "Do you have Visual Basic?" "What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It's not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that's what you mean, you dumb broad." I didn't get hired, but that's not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Oh, and Google and all the rest of them should stop freakin' calling these people engineers. Almost NONE of them are engineers. They are software developers or programmers.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @anon, @Forbes, @Pericles, @Jack Armstrong

    Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Yes, all of them.

    Do you have Visual Basic?

    Why didn’t you just say “yes”?

    • LOL: sayless
    • Replies: @Abolish_public_education
    @ScarletNumber

    Why didn’t he just ask her whether she had even bothered to read his resume?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Polistra, @Alden

    , @Badger Down
    @ScarletNumber

    Yes, but I wear glasses for reading.

  12. anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.
     
    That's likely true, but it's also that she is not bright enough to even ascertain whether these Howard grads are actually brilliant or not. She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Back when I was doing some software work: "Do you have Visual Basic?" "What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It's not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that's what you mean, you dumb broad." I didn't get hired, but that's not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Oh, and Google and all the rest of them should stop freakin' calling these people engineers. Almost NONE of them are engineers. They are software developers or programmers.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @anon, @Forbes, @Pericles, @Jack Armstrong

    Back when I was doing some software work: “Do you have Visual Basic?” “What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It’s not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that’s what you mean, you dumb broad.” I didn’t get hired, but that’s not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Insufficiently autistic, no doubt.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @anon


    Insufficiently autistic, no doubt.
     
    She asked if I was on the spectrum, so I said yes. I thought she was talking vitamins. Yep, that was probably it, now that I think back on it ...

    Replies: @El Dato

  13. @ScarletNumber
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?
     
    Yes, all of them.

    Do you have Visual Basic?
     
    Why didn't you just say "yes"?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education, @Badger Down

    Why didn’t he just ask her whether she had even bothered to read his resume?

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Abolish_public_education

    Because she had a job and he wanted one 🤷‍♂️

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Polistra
    @Abolish_public_education

    Not hard to imagine someone doing this as a little trick, to see how easy you'd be to get along with. If you mention that they already have the information, because it's on your résumé, they know they won't like you. Whether or not they should is a separate matter.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Alden
    @Abolish_public_education

    It’s incredibly rude and racist to ask a black person to read something or if they read something.

    Because so many blacks with BA BS MA MS and JDs degrees really can’t read

  14. Notably excluded from Washington Post’s analysis is one of the largest tech companies in the world, its sister company Amazon.

    • Thanks: J.Ross, Polistra
    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    @angmojito

    Yes, rather curious.

    Somewhat on topic, somewhat off topic, to the surprise of exactly no one the Tik Tock Doc turns out to have engaged in some unprofessional behavior.

    https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/tik-tok-doc-sexual-assault-allegations-leave-florida-hospital/283-5ffddfbb-5702-4255-bc4e-5fd1f239edce

    , @AndrewR
    @angmojito

    You mean mother company.

    WaPo could disappear entirely and no one would notice except the 0.1% of the population who thinks it's an important source of news and commentary.

    But Amazon disappearing would crumble the foundation of our society and economy.

    Replies: @Odin, @Shango

    , @Almost Missouri
    @angmojito

    Good catch.

    Also,


    Share of [black] technical workers, by race

    Apple*
    no change

    *No diversity figures available after 2018
     
    Stay based, Apple, stay based.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iZk_jdRv9K4/U9x5GImpIEI/AAAAAAAAAOk/ilHSgacLqPY/s1600/steve-jobs-think-different3.jpg

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar

  15. Dear Miss Curley:

    If you want to be in a credible position to contradict the opinions of Google programmers about which college students or graduates are strong candidates for entry-level programming jobs at Google…

    [MORE]

    …learn to code.

    • LOL: SimpleSong
    • Troll: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Gary in Gramercy

    And by this, I mean a good troll!

  16. @angmojito
    Notably excluded from Washington Post's analysis is one of the largest tech companies in the world, its sister company Amazon.

    Replies: @SimpleSong, @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri

    Yes, rather curious.

    Somewhat on topic, somewhat off topic, to the surprise of exactly no one the Tik Tock Doc turns out to have engaged in some unprofessional behavior.

    https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/tik-tok-doc-sexual-assault-allegations-leave-florida-hospital/283-5ffddfbb-5702-4255-bc4e-5fd1f239edce

  17. My favorite part about black people is how (((certain people))) exploit their natural Dunning-Kruger arrogance + ignorance into full-blown ruination of companies.

  18. A Black woman named Charlotte Newman is suing Jeff Bezos because she experienced systemic racism when she worked for him.

    What a pickle The Woke Washington Post is in. Do they side with their White Supremacist boss Jeff Bezos who signs their paychecks or do they side with Black Girl Magic? And can The Woke Washington Post be Cancel Cultured if they side with Jeff Bezos over a strong powerful Black Chocolate Ebony Queen?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Luzzatto

    'A Black woman named Charlotte Newman is suing Jeff Bezos because she experienced systemic racism when she worked for him.

    'What a pickle The Woke Washington Post is in...'

    I don't see much of a pickle. When you're as rich as Jeff Bezos, it's worth a few million to pay the mulatto off and keep your political correctness credentials. The only real problem is that the precedent will encourage others -- but you can always put your foot down if the problem gets out of hand.

  19. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1367882603567616000

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @AndrewR

    (To the tune of “I’m A Boy” by The Who:)

    The Cat in the Hat has come for me,

    A pill and a jab (he thinks I can’t see),

    He wants to jab my sister too,

    But I’m her brother and that won’t do.

    I’m a boy, I’m a boy, I won’t let the Cat get near me,

    I’m a boy, I’m a boy, Mum and Dad, can you even hear me?

    • Thanks: Calvin Hobbes
  20. @Anon
    April is a good example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. She's so stupid she can't assess the brains of another person. If she was smart enough to code herself, she'd be able to spot a dummy who couldn't code.

    By the way, if Historic Black Colleges are graduating programmers who can't code, their classes are a retarded joke.

    Replies: @anon, @Luzzatto, @J.Ross, @AceDeuce

    By the way, if Historic Black Colleges are graduating programmers who can’t code, their classes are a retarded joke.

    That’s one explanation.

  21. @Anon
    April is a good example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. She's so stupid she can't assess the brains of another person. If she was smart enough to code herself, she'd be able to spot a dummy who couldn't code.

    By the way, if Historic Black Colleges are graduating programmers who can't code, their classes are a retarded joke.

    Replies: @anon, @Luzzatto, @J.Ross, @AceDeuce

    No wealthy White Democrat elitist would ever send their daughter or son to an HBCU over Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Stanford for example, no matter how Woke they are and no matter how many Black Lives Matter signs they put in their front lawns!

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Luzzatto


    No wealthy White Democrat elitist would ever send their daughter or son to...
     
    Wealthy White Democrats are not particularly friendly to their own kids, if they even have any. Their embrace of "diversity" and such cuts out a lot of niceness for a kids future.
  22. A 2 year predominantly White community college is way more credible than any 4 year HBCU university!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Luzzatto

    No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.

    Altucher got his B.S. in CS from Cornell and his M.S. in CS from Carnegie Mellon and when he started his first programming job he was the only one with a computer science degree and the only one not able to program.


    https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/10-things-i-didnt-learn-in-college/

    10 THINGS I DIDN'T LEARN IN COLLEGE

    ... I spent $100,000 of my own money (via debt, which I paid back in full) majoring in Computer Science.

    I then went to graduate school in computer science.

    I then remained in an academic environment for several years doing various computer programming jobs.

    Finally I hit the real world. I got a job in corporate America. Everyone congratulated me where I worked, “you’re going to the real world,” they said. I was never so happy.

    I called my friends in NYC, “money is falling from trees here,” they said. I looked for apartments in Hoboken. I looked at my girlfriend with a new feeling of gratefulness – we were going to break up once I moved. I knew it.

    In other words, like was going to be great. My mom even told me, “you’re going to shine at your new job.”
    Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment – I couldn’t program.

    I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess.

    I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. I heard my boss whisper to his boss’s boss, ‘I don’t know what we’re going to do with him, he has no skills.’

    And what’s worse is that I was in a cluster of cubicles so everyone around me could here that whisper also.

    So they sent me to two months of remedial programming courses at AT&T in New Jersey...

     

    Replies: @Mark Roulo, @mmack, @John Pepple, @Jim Bob Lassiter

  23. @Abolish_public_education
    @ScarletNumber

    Why didn’t he just ask her whether she had even bothered to read his resume?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Polistra, @Alden

    Because she had a job and he wanted one 🤷‍♂️

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @ScarletNumber

    I realize people have to make unpleasant compromises sometimes, but if I had a skill on my resumé and an interviewer who knew nothing about that skill asked me if I had that skill, I would end the interview right there or at least play some real hardball.

  24. Why are they still trying to make this happen?
    The NBA is filled with blacks. I don’t see the managers freaking out, trying to help asians or filipinos join the Basketball ranks. I don’t see them trying to do anything at all with the black over representation. I also see black overrepresentation in hiphop music. I don’t see colleges or universities trying to “leg up” any other ethnic group. It just seems like careers that white males excel at are ALWAYS targetted for attack, but no other occupations are.

    • Agree: bomag, epebble
    • Replies: @anonymous
    @wakeupscreaming

    Diversify the diamond biz

    , @stillCARealist
    @wakeupscreaming

    Because everybody knows that the NBA and hiphop aren't meaningful. Computer programming is essential and matters greatly if it doesn't work right.

    Sort of like how we all discovered that so many gov't workers aren't important in 2020, but the folks who put booze on the shelves are utterly essential.

    , @Forbes
    @wakeupscreaming

    Well, that's the point.

    It's easier to get the mob emotionally riled-up over an issue, e.g. by claiming unfairness! or injustice!, rather than it is to explain the situation with logic and reason beyond most mob members' cognitive capability.

  25. The following quotes are directly parsed from this document.

    lol

    • LOL: bomag
  26. Project Bison? Was Buffalo Soldier too on the snout?

    • LOL: Almost Missouri
  27. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1354922395811811331

    Replies: @AndrewR, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Escher

    Shaniquas posting their L’s online

  28. @JohnnyWalker123
    https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1367882603567616000

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @AndrewR

    The BB is the new Onion. The Onion itself has become humorless and fully regime-compliant.

    • Replies: @Anon55uu
    @AndrewR

    The Onion was bought by a big Hillary donor at the start of 2016. No surprise in its decline

    , @Sick 'n Tired
    @AndrewR

    The Onion's satire headlines have now become indistinguishable from the actual news headlines and stories, some of which are even less believable than anything The Onion ever put out.

    Replies: @Luzzatto

  29. Apart from the technical-competence issue, there is the chip-on-shoulder issue. About 10 years ago,while boarding a major national airline, I could see through the open cockpit door that the captain was black. My heart swelled with SJWarriorness, an unusual feeling for me. Well, when he came on the intercom, he announced that he was setting one of the passenger listening channels to monitor air traffic control, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other insulting humor emanated later.
    He might have been a competent pilot in the technical sense. But there are some people in life you expect to be serious, such as your surgeon, your dog’s vet, and your airline pilot. Many people are afraid of flying to begin with, and I suspect that having an unserious captain with an attitude problem undermined confidence and calmness.

    I don’t know to what degree this anecdote of an attitude problem can be extrapolated to relationships with colleagues at tech companies, the military, universities, or other businesses or institutions. I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @SafeNow

    If it was Mesa Airlines, your pilot could have been Conrad Aska, who later moved on to Atlas Airlines. In February of 2019, he flew one of their 767s into Trinity Bay on approach into Houston. I’m waiting for an exhaustive William Langewiesche article on the crash, but expect I’ll not see one.

    Replies: @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    , @AceDeuce
    @SafeNow

    It could have been worse. Negro pilot Auburn Calloway, who "had issues" while flying with the Navy, and later with Flying Tiger, got on with Fed Ex, where he also had issues. He then decided to hijack and crash a fed Ex aircraft that he wangled a ride on as a passenger.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

    Replies: @JMcG

  30. Apart from the technical-competence issue, there is the chip-on-shoulder issue. About 10 years ago,while boarding a major national airline, I could see through the open cockpit door that the captain was black. My heart swelled with SJWarriorness, an unusual feeling for me. Well, when he came on the intercom, he announced that he was setting one of the passenger listening channels to monitor air traffic control, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other insulting humor emanated later.
    He might have been a competent pilot in the technical sense. But there are some people in life you expect to be serious, such as your surgeon, your dog’s vet, and your airline pilot. Many people are afraid of flying to begin with, and I suspect that having an unserious captain with an attitude problem undermined confidence and calmness.

    I don’t know to what degree this anecdote of an attitude problem can be extrapolated to relationships with colleagues at tech companies, the military, universities, or other businesses or institutions. I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @SafeNow


    I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.
     
    Pretty much a built-in feature of having even one Black around, so there is a lot of firing; shuffling personnel; and cringing.
    , @eee
    @SafeNow


    Other insulting humor emanated later.
     
    Sounds like self-deprecating humor, like he understood that only nerds would listen to air traffic control for fun and he is probably the kind of guy who does that, which is probably the kind of guy you want to be a pilot of a passenger jet.
    , @Bill Jones
    @SafeNow

    In the before times - mid 70's I guess, I was on a genuine African airline plane in a genuine African country (Gambia?Senegal? I've passed a lot of Single Malt under the bridge since then), when the Captain, last one to board after all the passengers were seated, boarded at the rear and strolled down the aisle looking like a deranged satirists vision of Idi Amin. The sheer weight of the gold braid was impressive.

    I was collecting my shit prior to deplaning when my experienced seatmate told me not to worry, the white guy who would do the actual flying was the first one on the plane an hour earlier.

    It was amusing then. Now that it's reality here I don't find it that funny.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  31. @Anon
    April is a good example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. She's so stupid she can't assess the brains of another person. If she was smart enough to code herself, she'd be able to spot a dummy who couldn't code.

    By the way, if Historic Black Colleges are graduating programmers who can't code, their classes are a retarded joke.

    Replies: @anon, @Luzzatto, @J.Ross, @AceDeuce

    Dunning-Kruger is a moronic rebranding of sophomorism. It is the false confidence larval academics have from a little knowledge, which they regret once they achieve mastery. This is what Dunning’s and Kruger’s actual research followed. It has since been relied upon by the lyingpress to sell the Emperor’s New Clothes, since the people who claim the Emperor is naked rarely have a tailoring license, and therefore must be wrong and stupid. This example is actually far worse than a sophomoric computer sciences student misjudging his colleagues. April isn’t at the level of a sophomoric student in the field. She doesn’t soffer from a little over-relied-upon computer knowledge, rather she doesn’t have any.

    • Replies: @sayless
    @J.Ross

    Yes, it seems not to have occurred to April that maybe she was really not very good at her job, and that was why they let her go.

    , @Anon
    @J.Ross

    The replication crisis has unfortunately hit Dunning-Kruger.

    The Dunning-Kruger Effect May Be a Statistical Illusion
    Research finds the effect is statistically due to other psychological factors.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experimentations/202004/the-dunning-kruger-effect-may-be-statistical-illusion

    The Dunning-Kruger Effect Is Probably Not Real
    The darling of those who wish to explain why incompetent people don’t know they’re unskilled, the Dunning-Kruger effect may actually just be a data artefact.

    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking/dunning-kruger-effect-probably-not-real


    In 2016 and 2017, two papers were published in a mathematics journal called Numeracy. In them, the authors argued that the Dunning-Kruger effect was a mirage. And I tend to agree.

    The two papers, by Dr. Ed Nuhfer and colleagues, argued that the Dunning-Kruger effect could be replicated by using random data. “We all then believed the [1999] paper was valid,” Dr. Nuhfer told me via email. “The reasoning and argument just made so much sense. We never set out to disprove it; we were even fans of that paper.”

    In Dr. Nuhfer’s own papers, which used both computer-generated data and results from actual people undergoing a science literacy test, his team disproved the claim that most people that are unskilled are unaware of it (“a small number are: we saw about 5-6% that fit that in our data”) and instead showed that both experts and novices underestimate and overestimate their skills with the same frequency. “It’s just that experts do that over a narrower range,” he wrote to me.
     
  32. Coders of Color should be paired with racist whites and Asians.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @James Speaks


    Coders of Color should be paired with racist whites and Asians.
     
    This was a mistake.

    Coders of Color should be paired with woke whites, as in all woke whites must have a Coder of Color to mentor. Think of the possibilities.
  33. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:

    “The problem for HBCUs is that non-HBCU colleges are so hungry for black talent… that HBCUs are stuck with mediocrities like Ibram X. Kendi and Kamala Harris.”

    Candace Owens should be tweeting about “mismatch effect” every other week.
    Recently read that Clarence Thomas stuck a “15 cent” sticker on his Yale law diploma once he realized how much their BS led to others discounting him.

  34. Anon[157] • Disclaimer says:

    We interviewed CandidateA, a graduating CS Senior, in May 2013. CandidateA was a faculty referral and allegedly one of the best CS students at Howard. Interview score of 1.1;

    Strong No Move Forward. Couldn’t handle basic algorithms. Couldn’t handle working with java collections beyond absolute surface level. Does not understand code in any depth.

    What I would give to have been a fly on the wall of that interview. A cocky young guy at the top of his class … and then the rubber hits the road. The “Strong recommendation: Do not move forward with this candidate” seems designed to preempt the equity gals from recommended a second and third look at this “top of the class, professor-recommended” knucklehead. “No, seriously, this guy is never going to work for Google. DO NOT WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON HIM. I am serious. No way in hell. Don’t ask me how the top of the class at Howard is unqualified to be hired for a bottom of the heap programming job at Google, but it’s true! NO MOVE FORWARD!”

    The rubber hits the road.

    I took Engineering 1 my third quarter at UCLA, which was the beginning programming class, using PL1, on the IBM mainframe (punch cards, pre desktop computers). I was surprised at how fun it was, so I signed up for the followup, Engineering 100, the following year. It was my first experience with a “weed out” class. I dropped it after two weeks. I was having fun, so I continued the maximum time you could and still drop it without credit, but it was so time consuming that I would have had to drop one of my major classes to continue. Our first assignment was to write a program in PL1, do the same thing in Algol 68 (up to us to learn this on our own, fast), and a third version in assembly language, which is where you directly manipulate the computer registers: simply adding two numbers takes several steps (again, minimal direction, learn it on your own). I managed to complete the assignment before bailing out.

    I’ve read that weed-out classes are racist, and misogynistic. You have to gently nurture students rather than subject them to Darwinian pressure. You want to keep BiPOCs and women in tech classes as long as possible. Let them build up huge loan balances, rather than find a more suitable major in time. Make sure they graduate. Then they can apply to Google, and experience one of these fun “No Move Forward” interviews, get rejected, and end up in a low level tech support job somewhere, paying off your student loans.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Anon


    in assembly language
     
    I was crying for that one. Entire holidays went up in smoke and a lot of lined paper was used.

    "Where is the floating point multiplier?"

    "...you write it. That's the idea."
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Anon

    Assembler really sorts the whizzkids from the "ordinary" (i.e. pretty bright) programmer. Some people can write twenty lines of code that does what 100 lines of a mortal's code does. And you look at it, and see how it works, but you still can't see how he thought of doing it that way.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Anon

    Linear algebra, usually in the third semester, as a lead in to multivariate calculus and/or analysis is the traditional filter in mathematics departments. About half the math majors in my class switched to economics or something similar after barely making it through linear algebra. To be fair, the course was conducted at a fairly high level of abstraction. Hoffman and Kunze was the text.

    Replies: @Gringo

  35. @Abolish_public_education
    @ScarletNumber

    Why didn’t he just ask her whether she had even bothered to read his resume?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Polistra, @Alden

    Not hard to imagine someone doing this as a little trick, to see how easy you’d be to get along with. If you mention that they already have the information, because it’s on your résumé, they know they won’t like you. Whether or not they should is a separate matter.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Polistra

    Nah, all you guys are funny, but let me give you the gist of it:

    The one I'm thinking of was just on the phone, though the whole "do you HAVE" thing was used a lot and just ticked me off. In this case, no, it wasn't about getting along. Of course, it doesn't pay to show one is ticked off by an HR lady, and I didn't.

    I did "HAVE" the knowledge (and on the few little things I didn't, I could say I did and learn them on the job.) You apply for a bunch of jobs, and you don't need to get but one, and they won't tell you why you didn't get the other ones.

    BTW, this was back before so many foreigners had gotten into the IT job market. There were loads of guys with no degrees who could get a job with no trouble. I remember this, specifically. Me, to a friend/colleague at work: "Why are you moving to Texas? You got a good job there?" "Nah, I have a good friend over there, so ... I can get a job in a couple of weeks, I'm sure." It was really like that.

  36. it’s almost as if the Hidden Figures are, well, hidden.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    @TyRade


    it’s almost as if the Hidden Figures are, well, hidden.
     
    Poor April Christina Curley, just another hidden figure, another victim of racisssm!
  37. @JohnnyWalker123
    It's amazing that with all this screaming about diversity in Silicon Valley, no one ever talks about the mass flooding of H1bs into the software industry. Truly remarkable.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Cato

    My understanding is that these technical interviews have increased due to H1-Bs lying about their education and skills.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Redneck farmer

    I think it's also to (1) weed out people who were successful in school — they can prove theorems about parsing LALR grammars but never developed a knack for actual coding, and (2) find people who can't spell LALR but code well.

  38. @Gary in Gramercy
    Dear Miss Curley:

    If you want to be in a credible position to contradict the opinions of Google programmers about which college students or graduates are strong candidates for entry-level programming jobs at Google...




    ...learn to code.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    And by this, I mean a good troll!

  39. @MIC
    Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions. At the end of each interview the interviewer sends out a yay/nay email to everyone on the interview loop, with a phone call to the next interviewer who won't have time to read your email. If you get two or three nays in a row you'll be sent packing, never getting to the hiring manager. A successful candidate usually goes through a 5 to 6 hour interview day. Few pretenders can get through their doors.

    But these companies have become so damn woke, I see them eventually coming up with alternative interviews with softball questions for their affirmative action hires, or just create lots of useless, non-technical positions for them but with fancy sounding names, like "Program Manager", which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs. It's no different than colleges coming with STEM sounding majors that aren't really technical, like "Human Biology" for those who can't hack real biology, or "Computers and Society" for those who can't hack real CS, just so they could graduate more minority "STEM" majors.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Elmer T. Jones, @theMann, @joe_mama, @Sebastian Hawks

    ““Program Manager”, which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs”

    Tendency these days in the UK to be attractive youngish women, whose job it is to decide between the various alternatives the techies offer, because they don’t have the knowledge or training to have their own ideas.

    Doesn’t work too badly as the techies gaze into their baby blue eyes and are generally honest, although I miss the days when PMs were former techies who could call out any BS.

  40. @angmojito
    Notably excluded from Washington Post's analysis is one of the largest tech companies in the world, its sister company Amazon.

    Replies: @SimpleSong, @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri

    You mean mother company.

    WaPo could disappear entirely and no one would notice except the 0.1% of the population who thinks it’s an important source of news and commentary.

    But Amazon disappearing would crumble the foundation of our society and economy.

    • Replies: @Odin
    @AndrewR


    But Amazon disappearing would crumble the foundation of our society and economy.
     
    I dunno. I stopped using Amazon at the start of 2021 and so far I haven't missed it. Everything I've wanted has been readily available from other vendors online, so I don't see that there's been any net damage to the economy.

    On the other hand, I suppose the greater part of the money still ends up in China. Does anyone know a good source for non-CCP goods?
    , @Shango
    @AndrewR

    You can't think that one of the largest newspapers in the country would disappear and no one would notice or miss them?

    Replies: @Jack D

  41. @ScarletNumber
    @Abolish_public_education

    Because she had a job and he wanted one 🤷‍♂️

    Replies: @AndrewR

    I realize people have to make unpleasant compromises sometimes, but if I had a skill on my resumé and an interviewer who knew nothing about that skill asked me if I had that skill, I would end the interview right there or at least play some real hardball.

  42. Bison, as in “Buffalo Soldier?” Is that deliberate or did no one make the connection?

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Stealth

    I made that connection. There's nothing on their website about that, though.

  43. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1354922395811811331

    Replies: @AndrewR, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Escher

    2007-02-27

    “Shameful Honey” sounds like a good name for a dating site.

    https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

    Maybe it’s foolish to begin interviewing a programmer without looking at their code first. At Vertigo, we require a code sample before we even proceed to the phone interview stage. And our on-site interview includes a small coding exercise. Nothing difficult, mind you, just a basic exercise to go through the motions of building a small application in an hour or so. Although there have been one or two notable flame-outs, for the most part, this strategy has worked well for us. It lets us focus on actual software engineering in the interview without resorting to tedious puzzle questions.

    Reminds me of the time my interview led me to having to pass a online multiple-answer quiz about Enterprise Java Beans with a strong caution to Not use Google or Forfeit the Test Immediately resulting in:

    – Indian accents on the audio.
    – Stupid question about irrelevant details that you don’t know if you haven’t come out of EJB class half an hour ago.
    – Obsolete questions from 5 years ago.
    – No general understanding required.
    – Me using Google in anger.

    EJB is the rear sphincter of “Big & Serious Enterprise Programming” in any case. Endless consulting fees solving the same problem fucked up by previous consultants over and over again are to be had.

    I wish I was dead inside enough so that I could go for that kind of money.

    • Replies: @propagandist hacker
    @El Dato


    I wish I was dead inside enough so that I could go for that kind of money.
     
    Give it time...
  44. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1354922395811811331

    Replies: @AndrewR, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Escher

    I get the feeling that if it weren’t for the “one drop” rule, these companies would have no black engineers at all.

  45. Maybe Google CEO could announce that a DNA test has established that he and the late jazz musician Milt Jackson had a common West African ancestor.

    Perhaps that will take some of the heat off Google.

    • Replies: @Escher
    @PiltdownMan

    The effect of India having been “enriched” by multiple waves of diverse invasions and the associated genetic mixing.

    , @rec1man
    @PiltdownMan

    Google CEO is a Tamil Brahmin, the highest IQ slice of India - 3 / 4 Science Nobels, Math whiz Ramanujam and former Chess Champion Vish Anand

    this is one of the most extreme IQ gaps, putting a Tamil Brahmin vs a Black African ;

    Mindy Kaling is a Tamil Dravidian and her brother got into medical school by claiming to be black

  46. @SafeNow
    Apart from the technical-competence issue, there is the chip-on-shoulder issue. About 10 years ago,while boarding a major national airline, I could see through the open cockpit door that the captain was black. My heart swelled with SJWarriorness, an unusual feeling for me. Well, when he came on the intercom, he announced that he was setting one of the passenger listening channels to monitor air traffic control, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other insulting humor emanated later.
    He might have been a competent pilot in the technical sense. But there are some people in life you expect to be serious, such as your surgeon, your dog’s vet, and your airline pilot. Many people are afraid of flying to begin with, and I suspect that having an unserious captain with an attitude problem undermined confidence and calmness.

    I don’t know to what degree this anecdote of an attitude problem can be extrapolated to relationships with colleagues at tech companies, the military, universities, or other businesses or institutions. I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    Replies: @JMcG, @AceDeuce

    If it was Mesa Airlines, your pilot could have been Conrad Aska, who later moved on to Atlas Airlines. In February of 2019, he flew one of their 767s into Trinity Bay on approach into Houston. I’m waiting for an exhaustive William Langewiesche article on the crash, but expect I’ll not see one.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @JMcG

    That sounds like another autopilot arguing with captain arguing with first officer story.

    https://nypost.com/2019/12/20/texas-plane-pilots-last-words-before-crash-lord-you-have-my-soul/


    Capt. Ricky Blakely, First Officer Conrad Jules Aska and Mesa Airlines Capt. Sean Archuleta, who was riding in the jump seat, were killed Feb. 23 when the Boeing 767 operated by Atlas Air plunged into Trinity Bay.

    Seconds after air traffic controllers rerouted the aircraft around some precipitation, the crew began losing control on approach to Bush Intercontinental Airport.

    Aska, who had a record of repeatedly flunking flight tests, may have mistakenly thought the jet was stalling when its nose was pointed too high, so he jerked it down as the captain fought to pull up, according to the Nation Transportation Safety Board report.

    He added full takeoff power without telling Blakely, resulting in pandemonium in the cockpit, according to the report.

    “Whoa, (where’s) my speed, my speed,” Aska said, according to the transcript released by the National Transportation Safety Bureau. “We’re stalling. Stall.”

    Several thumping sounds could be heard in the cockpit as the plane plummeted 6,200 feet at an airspeed of 433.5 knots (499 mph) with the autopilot engaged before the flight data recorder stopped working.

    “Oh Lord, have mercy on myself,” Aska said seconds before impact as Archuleta yells for the pilots to pull up.

    “Lord, you have my soul,” Aska then says right before the plane slams into the marshy bay, scattering packages and debris across a wide swath.

    A distress call was never made from the doomed flight.

     

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article235268072.html

    The brother of an Atlas Air pilot who was killed when a cargo plane crashed in February is suing the company.

    In May, Archuleta’s widow sued Atlas Air and Amazon in federal court, alleging the companies failed to adequately train their pilots and prevent the crash. That case is pending.
     
  47. @Anon

    We interviewed CandidateA, a graduating CS Senior, in May 2013. CandidateA was a faculty referral and allegedly one of the best CS students at Howard. Interview score of 1.1;

    Strong No Move Forward. Couldn’t handle basic algorithms. Couldn’t handle working with java collections beyond absolute surface level. Does not understand code in any depth.
     
    What I would give to have been a fly on the wall of that interview. A cocky young guy at the top of his class ... and then the rubber hits the road. The "Strong recommendation: Do not move forward with this candidate" seems designed to preempt the equity gals from recommended a second and third look at this "top of the class, professor-recommended" knucklehead. "No, seriously, this guy is never going to work for Google. DO NOT WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON HIM. I am serious. No way in hell. Don't ask me how the top of the class at Howard is unqualified to be hired for a bottom of the heap programming job at Google, but it's true! NO MOVE FORWARD!"

    The rubber hits the road.

    I took Engineering 1 my third quarter at UCLA, which was the beginning programming class, using PL1, on the IBM mainframe (punch cards, pre desktop computers). I was surprised at how fun it was, so I signed up for the followup, Engineering 100, the following year. It was my first experience with a "weed out" class. I dropped it after two weeks. I was having fun, so I continued the maximum time you could and still drop it without credit, but it was so time consuming that I would have had to drop one of my major classes to continue. Our first assignment was to write a program in PL1, do the same thing in Algol 68 (up to us to learn this on our own, fast), and a third version in assembly language, which is where you directly manipulate the computer registers: simply adding two numbers takes several steps (again, minimal direction, learn it on your own). I managed to complete the assignment before bailing out.

    I've read that weed-out classes are racist, and misogynistic. You have to gently nurture students rather than subject them to Darwinian pressure. You want to keep BiPOCs and women in tech classes as long as possible. Let them build up huge loan balances, rather than find a more suitable major in time. Make sure they graduate. Then they can apply to Google, and experience one of these fun "No Move Forward" interviews, get rejected, and end up in a low level tech support job somewhere, paying off your student loans.

    Replies: @El Dato, @YetAnotherAnon, @Jus' Sayin'...

    in assembly language

    I was crying for that one. Entire holidays went up in smoke and a lot of lined paper was used.

    “Where is the floating point multiplier?”

    “…you write it. That’s the idea.”

  48. “In 2014, I was hired at Google to fundamentally shift the relationship (or lack thereof) that Google had with Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Before my role existed, Google had NEVER, and I mean fucking NEVER hired an HBCU student into a tech role Please read that shit again. It’s as egregious as it sounds. At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles”

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%

    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @bjdubbs

    “At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles”

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%
    - - - - -
    The proportional increase from 0 to 300 is (amount of increase)/(original amount) = 300/0 = infinity, which is indeed "over 300%".

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Templar

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @bjdubbs

    I didn't catch that one! Thanks.

    , @Jack D
    @bjdubbs

    Aside from the total innumeracy that she displays (can't say that I am surprised), it would be interesting to track what became of the 300 HBCU grads that she hired at Google. Did they stay or were they pushed out? Were they transitioned to jobs where no math is required (like hers) or were they placed on "teams" so that other people could do their jobs for them and they could share in the credit? How many are still filling technical roles and carrying their full weight? I would guess fewer that 10% of them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  49. “Project Bison Proposal”!? Who are they calling a water buffalo?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident

  50. Did anyone at Google stop to think that their search algos are increasingly written by Asians? They probably also have a disproportionate number of Asian hiring managers.

  51. Former Silicon Valley engineer here with a brain teaser I used to throw at candidates:

    You are in a room with three light switches on the wall; each switch is connected to one light bulb in the adjacent room, separated by a door so you can’t see the bulbs. You can position the light switches in any way you want, then you must enter the room only once and ascertain which switch is connected to which bulb. How do you do it?

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    @Spud Boy

    One on, one off, one halfway to flicker. Otherwise, one on, one off, flick the third one on for a few seconds to heat it up, then turn it off and check the bulbs for light and temperature. But don't worry, I'm 59 and never learned how to code.

  52. @Redneck farmer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    My understanding is that these technical interviews have increased due to H1-Bs lying about their education and skills.

    Replies: @International Jew

    I think it’s also to (1) weed out people who were successful in school — they can prove theorems about parsing LALR grammars but never developed a knack for actual coding, and (2) find people who can’t spell LALR but code well.

  53. @Polistra
    @Abolish_public_education

    Not hard to imagine someone doing this as a little trick, to see how easy you'd be to get along with. If you mention that they already have the information, because it's on your résumé, they know they won't like you. Whether or not they should is a separate matter.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Nah, all you guys are funny, but let me give you the gist of it:

    The one I’m thinking of was just on the phone, though the whole “do you HAVE” thing was used a lot and just ticked me off. In this case, no, it wasn’t about getting along. Of course, it doesn’t pay to show one is ticked off by an HR lady, and I didn’t.

    I did “HAVE” the knowledge (and on the few little things I didn’t, I could say I did and learn them on the job.) You apply for a bunch of jobs, and you don’t need to get but one, and they won’t tell you why you didn’t get the other ones.

    BTW, this was back before so many foreigners had gotten into the IT job market. There were loads of guys with no degrees who could get a job with no trouble. I remember this, specifically. Me, to a friend/colleague at work: “Why are you moving to Texas? You got a good job there?” “Nah, I have a good friend over there, so … I can get a job in a couple of weeks, I’m sure.” It was really like that.

    • Agree: houston 1992
  54. @anon
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Back when I was doing some software work: “Do you have Visual Basic?” “What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It’s not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that’s what you mean, you dumb broad.” I didn’t get hired, but that’s not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Insufficiently autistic, no doubt.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Insufficiently autistic, no doubt.

    She asked if I was on the spectrum, so I said yes. I thought she was talking vitamins. Yep, that was probably it, now that I think back on it …

    • LOL: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Achmed E. Newman

    "Are you on the spectrum?"

    "What do you mean?"

    "Where exactly do you see yourself on this flag?"

    "Umm.... mocha brown?"

    https://i.postimg.cc/W3fPwK2m/multicolored-flag.jpg

  55. @Luzzatto
    @Anon

    No wealthy White Democrat elitist would ever send their daughter or son to an HBCU over Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Stanford for example, no matter how Woke they are and no matter how many Black Lives Matter signs they put in their front lawns!

    Replies: @bomag

    No wealthy White Democrat elitist would ever send their daughter or son to…

    Wealthy White Democrats are not particularly friendly to their own kids, if they even have any. Their embrace of “diversity” and such cuts out a lot of niceness for a kids future.

  56. Anonymous[267] • Disclaimer says:

    I always suspected those programming quizzes don’t tell you much

    https://insights.sei.cmu.edu/sei_blog/2020/01/programmer-moneyball-challenging-the-myth-of-individual-programmer-productivity.html

    But it looks like you could have a pretty good chance of cutting at the extremes.

  57. Anonymous[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @Luzzatto
    A 2 year predominantly White community college is way more credible than any 4 year HBCU university!

    Replies: @Anonymous

    No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.

    Altucher got his B.S. in CS from Cornell and his M.S. in CS from Carnegie Mellon and when he started his first programming job he was the only one with a computer science degree and the only one not able to program.

    https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/10-things-i-didnt-learn-in-college/

    10 THINGS I DIDN’T LEARN IN COLLEGE

    … I spent $100,000 of my own money (via debt, which I paid back in full) majoring in Computer Science.

    I then went to graduate school in computer science.

    I then remained in an academic environment for several years doing various computer programming jobs.

    Finally I hit the real world. I got a job in corporate America. Everyone congratulated me where I worked, “you’re going to the real world,” they said. I was never so happy.

    I called my friends in NYC, “money is falling from trees here,” they said. I looked for apartments in Hoboken. I looked at my girlfriend with a new feeling of gratefulness – we were going to break up once I moved. I knew it.

    In other words, like was going to be great. My mom even told me, “you’re going to shine at your new job.”
    Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment – I couldn’t program.

    I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess.

    I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. I heard my boss whisper to his boss’s boss, ‘I don’t know what we’re going to do with him, he has no skills.’

    And what’s worse is that I was in a cluster of cubicles so everyone around me could here that whisper also.

    So they sent me to two months of remedial programming courses at AT&T in New Jersey…

    • Replies: @Mark Roulo
    @Anonymous

    "No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college."

    Things have changed.

    James graduated with his bachelor's degree in 1989, the same year I graduated WITHOUT a computer science degree. I spent an afternoon with a family friend's son that summer and HE had graduated with a CS degree. He mentioned that he was looking forward to his employer training him to code.

    This was interesting to me, because I was planning on working as a programmer (and did ... still do!) and thought I was supposed to bring that skill to the table.

    Nope. Not in 1989 it seems.

    Today, CS graduates who can't program tend to get weeded out in the job interview. Their professor (and the CS students) know this and so at least *some* of the CS curriculum is trying to teach the kids to program at least a little bit competently as a code monkey. The *real* skill must be learned on the job, but folks do graduate knowing how to write code. What they need to learn on the job tends to be more along the lines of understanding an existing (large, badly written) codebase.

    Replies: @mikeInThe716

    , @mmack
    @Anonymous

    "No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college."

    I'm going to shoot Mr. Altucher's theory down in flames. With my own experience.

    I went to college in the Reagan - Daddy Bush days. I majored in Computer Science and went in cold on coding experience. I had one programming class in BASIC in high school.

    My major was designated "Applied Data Processing". It focused on skills a programmer would need in the corporate IT world. It taught COBOL, CICS, JCL, database processing, some C, design and analysis, and preliminary project management. And it allowed credit for an internship in IT. My internship was very easy as I utilized skills I'd learned in my coursework. And on graduation I was hired on at a retailer and walked into a job that utilized the skills I learned.

    I read Mr. Altucher's post. He may very well be a successful person who has started and sold businesses, but he comes across as a bit of a whiner in your linked post.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @John Pepple
    @Anonymous

    This doesn't make a lot of sense. I assume he knew how to write programs that worked, but what he couldn't do was write programs that others could easily modify.

    As for not knowing how to turn on the computer, what kind of computer is he talking about? A home computer? That would be pathetic. A mainframe? That makes more sense.

    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Anonymous

    I know a fellow who is a high school drop out who used to rake hundred dollar bills off the autumn ground as a consultant to AT&T during the mid to late eighties to bring them out of the mainframe age and up to speed with MS DOS desktop computers. The guy just has the knack for it.

  58. @JMcG
    @SafeNow

    If it was Mesa Airlines, your pilot could have been Conrad Aska, who later moved on to Atlas Airlines. In February of 2019, he flew one of their 767s into Trinity Bay on approach into Houston. I’m waiting for an exhaustive William Langewiesche article on the crash, but expect I’ll not see one.

    Replies: @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU “programmers”. But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward”. After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an “app”.

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Jack D

    Thanks for the link.


    “I'm miffed why this pilot was allowed to continue in the cockpit,” NTSB board member... said.
     
    Welcome to the current year.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @JMcG
    @Jack D

    It’s a really disturbing story. The guy kept leaving; getting asked to leave, flying jobs and kept getting hired into better and better jobs. The NTSB report is a masterpiece of evasion, but the guy accidentally hit a switch that sets full power and climb attitude.
    All well and good, easy to recover from, but he got it into his head that he was in an aerodynamic stall and responded as if he were in a Cessna 150. He panicked and pointed the nose at the ground. Apparently the other pilot wasn’t strong enough to overcome his control input and they all died together.
    The CVR actually has one pilot saying”Pull up!” while another says “Lord have mercy! And Oh God, Lord you have my soul”. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out who said what.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D

    https://i.imgur.com/GC4NL71.jpg

    Okay, not that different.

    , @El Dato
    @Jack D

    https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20190223-0


    Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up. The airplane then pitched nose down over the next 18 seconds to about 49° in response to nose-down elevator deflection. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

    FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.

    The NTSB found that the first officer’s repeated uses of incomplete and inaccurate information about his employment history on resumes and applications were deliberate attempts to conceal his history of performance deficiencies and deprived Atlas Air and at least one other former employer of the opportunity to fully evaluate his aptitude and competency as a pilot.

    He had a long history of training performance difficulties and his tendency to respond impulsively and inappropriately when faced with an unexpected event during training scenarios at multiple employers suggest an inability to remain calm during stressful situations; a tendency that may have exacerbated his aptitude-related performance difficulties.

    Probable Cause: The NTSB determines that the probable cause of this accident was the inappropriate response by the first officer as the pilot flying to an inadvertent activation of the go-around mode, which led to his spatial disorientation and nose-down control inputs that placed the airplane in a steep descent from which the crew did not recover. Contributing to the accident was the captain’s failure to adequately monitor the airplane’s flightpath and assume positive control of the airplane to effectively intervene. Also contributing were systemic deficiencies in the aviation industry’s selection and performance measurement practices, which failed to address the first officer’s aptitude-related deficiencies and maladaptive stress response. Also contributing to the accident was the Federal Aviation Administration’s failure to implement the Pilot Records Database in a sufficiently robust and timely manner.

     

    Better stay on target

    https://i.postimg.cc/Kjg1ytjT/stay-on-target.jpg
    , @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    You left out the best part. The family of the incompetent panicky pilot, Conrad Aksa, is suing the airline and the maintenance companies/

    https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-atlas-air-fatal-crash-pilots-sue-2019-9

    You're a lawyer - what defense does the airline have? They allowed an incompetent to fly - when they defend themselves, what do they say - "It's not mechanical negligence, it was affirmative action. Yeah, we were negligent - in giving this guy a job."

    The families of the two other pilots really should be the ones to sue.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

     

    So the Washington Post isn't going to write about it either.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    The gist of what El Dato wrote is that this guy couldn't really fly instruments, something most pilots should able to do a little bit of even to get the Private Pilot certificate (for the emergency situation - for them - of having flown into clouds.)

    This was Atlas Air, not Amazon, though I don't doubt it could have been carrying Amazon freight. Atlas Air has as good pilots as any airline, in general. They could have gotten as many qualified pilots as they wanted, even in this day and age where the job market is great (minus the 1 'rona year). I.e, no, they didn't need to keep this guy.

    Besides being blamed on this F/O who couldn't really fly, himself, the crash can also be blamed on HR and a PC culture, the latter of which has invaded EVERY corporation that has, well, HR people.

    It was obviously the F/O's leg. The Captain hadn't been monitoring as well as he should, and when he took over, it was too late to pull the plane out of the dive. I heard more about this from a pilot at ATI (who also fly a lot of Amazon stuff). He knew the Captain.

    Replies: @JMcG

  59. anonymous[310] • Disclaimer says:
    @wakeupscreaming
    Why are they still trying to make this happen?
    The NBA is filled with blacks. I don't see the managers freaking out, trying to help asians or filipinos join the Basketball ranks. I don't see them trying to do anything at all with the black over representation. I also see black overrepresentation in hiphop music. I don't see colleges or universities trying to "leg up" any other ethnic group. It just seems like careers that white males excel at are ALWAYS targetted for attack, but no other occupations are.

    Replies: @anonymous, @stillCARealist, @Forbes

    Diversify the diamond biz

  60. @SafeNow
    Apart from the technical-competence issue, there is the chip-on-shoulder issue. About 10 years ago,while boarding a major national airline, I could see through the open cockpit door that the captain was black. My heart swelled with SJWarriorness, an unusual feeling for me. Well, when he came on the intercom, he announced that he was setting one of the passenger listening channels to monitor air traffic control, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other insulting humor emanated later.
    He might have been a competent pilot in the technical sense. But there are some people in life you expect to be serious, such as your surgeon, your dog’s vet, and your airline pilot. Many people are afraid of flying to begin with, and I suspect that having an unserious captain with an attitude problem undermined confidence and calmness.

    I don’t know to what degree this anecdote of an attitude problem can be extrapolated to relationships with colleagues at tech companies, the military, universities, or other businesses or institutions. I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    Replies: @bomag, @eee, @Bill Jones

    I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    Pretty much a built-in feature of having even one Black around, so there is a lot of firing; shuffling personnel; and cringing.

  61. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks for the link.

    “I’m miffed why this pilot was allowed to continue in the cockpit,” NTSB board member… said.

    Welcome to the current year.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @bomag

    Wait until the NTSB gets diversified...

  62. @MIC
    Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions. At the end of each interview the interviewer sends out a yay/nay email to everyone on the interview loop, with a phone call to the next interviewer who won't have time to read your email. If you get two or three nays in a row you'll be sent packing, never getting to the hiring manager. A successful candidate usually goes through a 5 to 6 hour interview day. Few pretenders can get through their doors.

    But these companies have become so damn woke, I see them eventually coming up with alternative interviews with softball questions for their affirmative action hires, or just create lots of useless, non-technical positions for them but with fancy sounding names, like "Program Manager", which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs. It's no different than colleges coming with STEM sounding majors that aren't really technical, like "Human Biology" for those who can't hack real biology, or "Computers and Society" for those who can't hack real CS, just so they could graduate more minority "STEM" majors.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Elmer T. Jones, @theMann, @joe_mama, @Sebastian Hawks

    Pros would never stand for this interview abuse. It’s time to re-release my timeless classic “Employment Game – What “they” don’t want you to know about finding work in a feminized economy”.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Elmer T. Jones

    Please do.

    Replies: @Elmer T. Jones

  63. Twitter saw the biggest change in composition during that period. It went from being majority White to plurality Asian and Hispanics saw their share rise to 20 percent. No wonder Twitter increasingly engages in blatant unabashed censorship. I’d imagine it would be tough being an actual conservative straight White male at Twitter.

  64. @MIC
    Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions. At the end of each interview the interviewer sends out a yay/nay email to everyone on the interview loop, with a phone call to the next interviewer who won't have time to read your email. If you get two or three nays in a row you'll be sent packing, never getting to the hiring manager. A successful candidate usually goes through a 5 to 6 hour interview day. Few pretenders can get through their doors.

    But these companies have become so damn woke, I see them eventually coming up with alternative interviews with softball questions for their affirmative action hires, or just create lots of useless, non-technical positions for them but with fancy sounding names, like "Program Manager", which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs. It's no different than colleges coming with STEM sounding majors that aren't really technical, like "Human Biology" for those who can't hack real biology, or "Computers and Society" for those who can't hack real CS, just so they could graduate more minority "STEM" majors.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Elmer T. Jones, @theMann, @joe_mama, @Sebastian Hawks

    “Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions.”

    Oh, is that what Microsoft is doing? Leaving aside, for the moment, that Microsoft has yet to hire a single human being who could write a coherent English sentence, I have to say AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS IN IT, that Microsoft primarily hires people on their ability to obfuscate, prevaricate, and generally avoid ever solving a problem.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @theMann

    Last night I was reading through some old Microsoft documents used as evidence in the antitrust case. I was amused to discover that, in the early '90s, Bill Gates' level of English-language proficiency was only slightly above that of Tiny Duck:

    https://i.ibb.co/x8FgJ0Q/bill-gates.png

    He's basically saying, "OS/2 is being lauded in the press, and Windows is being trashed; why aren't our PR people responding effectively?" It takes him four paragraphs to say what might be said in one or two sentences.

    No wonder Microsoft products are so full of spaghetti code.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @theMann


    ... that Microsoft primarily hires people on their ability to obfuscate, prevaricate, and generally avoid ever solving a problem.
     
    This is every corporation now.
  65. At first I was surprised that she actually posted the interview feedback and other study results, which show very clearly that they were evaluated entirely on the same coding criteria as any other candidate, but with a lot of funding and special help to try to boost their scores. In other words, they were given all the preferential treatment that Google is legally allowed to give them and still couldn’t get in because they literally can’t code.

    When the women and trannies complain that women and trannies don’t have it easy enough, they dish out nebulous examples of microaggressions and other petty work complaints that are subjective enough so that you can interpret them as some sort of unconscious discrimination if you squint hard enough. And of course they complain about total representation. But they never tell you why, because that would be giving up the game.

    This woman is just blurting it all out, telling us straight up that Google did everything possible for these candidates but they just plain sucked.

    Anyway, at first I was surprised, but then I realized, as the collective IQ of these hustlers continues to plummet, we are probably going to see more and more of these admissions.

    • Replies: @Moses
    @Michael S


    This woman is just blurting it all out, telling us straight up that Google did everything possible for these candidates but they just plain sucked.
     
    It’s almost as if Blacks have little natural talent for high level abstract thinking.

    Replies: @Mike_from_SGV

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Michael S


    Anyway, at first I was surprised, but then I realized, as the collective IQ of these hustlers continues to plummet, we are probably going to see more and more of these admissions.

     

    Look for a move towards 'collaborative coding teams' at the big tech corporations. 'Diverse code' will be hailed as superior code.
  66. I’ve worked in the IT business for thirty years. In that time I’ve worked for various companies in Chicago, its suburbs, and other Midwestern cities. I’ve worked both as an employee or a consultant. I’ve had a wide range of experience working in IT as a developer, analyst, project manager and scrum master.

    I can count the number of African American coders and engineers I’ve met and worked with on my hands. Going back to my college days I had two male African American classmates in my Computer Science major program. One of whom I worked with at a client within ten years of graduating. I worked with two female African American developers and an African American man and woman in Quality Assurance at a major Insurance firm. And at MegaBank I worked with two African American men in the Database and Networking areas.

    And that’s about it. Now, I have met more African American women in Project Management, Business Analyst, and Scrum Master positions. But if the number breaks twenty, I’d be surprised.

    In the meantime I’ve met literally hundreds of IT folks (men and women) from India.
    Dozens of folks from China,
    Emigres from Ukraine and Russia,
    And people from Thailand, the Philippines, and Vietnam.
    Along with just plain White folks from around the US.

    If African Americans don’t want to work in IT, or aren’t the least bit interested in a career in IT, why do we have to force them into it? IT provides a good salary, but as others have pointed out a mass flood of people from around the world or work going to them have put pressure on salaries. If you’re smart enough for IT, you can make bank in Finance or other areas. If you’re not, you’re not going to be successful in IT and the people carrying you, no matter your color or sex, are going to resent you.

    Oh I forgot, we’re now in the era of box ticking.

  67. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s a really disturbing story. The guy kept leaving; getting asked to leave, flying jobs and kept getting hired into better and better jobs. The NTSB report is a masterpiece of evasion, but the guy accidentally hit a switch that sets full power and climb attitude.
    All well and good, easy to recover from, but he got it into his head that he was in an aerodynamic stall and responded as if he were in a Cessna 150. He panicked and pointed the nose at the ground. Apparently the other pilot wasn’t strong enough to overcome his control input and they all died together.
    The CVR actually has one pilot saying”Pull up!” while another says “Lord have mercy! And Oh God, Lord you have my soul”. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out who said what.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @JMcG

    It's infuriating. This link

    https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/legacy-of-a-lie-the-crash-of-atlas-air-flight-3591-519a3a7bd6ec

    is a great read that goes into every detail. Every detail but one. What would that be?


    The sequence of events in the cockpit defied comprehension. How could a trained pilot make such a fundamental error? It was in their attempts to answer this question that investigators found the real cause of the accident. Beneath the surface of the first officer’s training record, they found a long history of failed examinations, terrible airmanship, and difficulties performing basic procedures. One instructor said that he was one of the worst pilots he had ever trained. And after all of this, he was hired anyway — due to inadequate hiring practices, a deliberate act of deception, and an FAA program that wasn’t implemented in time to stop it.
     
    Much of this is technical and beyond me but it appears that Captain Blakely realized immediately what the problem was and tried to correct the situation but Aska was too stupid to understand what was going on and literally "fought" him (with the instruments).

    Aska was incapable of efficient responses:


    According to three instructors at that airline, Aska had no trouble with rote tasks; however, they confirmed that when faced with an unexpected event, he would start pressing random buttons in order to feel like he was doing something.

     

    As I said, every detail. But one.

    Aska had gotten the position at Atlas Air because he lied about his past.

     

    And maybe no one wanted to look too deeply.

    Atlas’s director of human resources admitted to investigators that “it’s hard to catch someone who’s deliberately trying to deceive you.”
     
    Isn't that was "Human Resources is supposed to do? Along with implementing Critical Race Theory.

    I find it grimly ironic that the plane was descending into George Bush Int'l Airport - ironic in that Poppa Bush was the very model of the genteel cuck Republican.

    Replies: @JMcG, @International Jew

  68. @Anon

    We interviewed CandidateA, a graduating CS Senior, in May 2013. CandidateA was a faculty referral and allegedly one of the best CS students at Howard. Interview score of 1.1;

    Strong No Move Forward. Couldn’t handle basic algorithms. Couldn’t handle working with java collections beyond absolute surface level. Does not understand code in any depth.
     
    What I would give to have been a fly on the wall of that interview. A cocky young guy at the top of his class ... and then the rubber hits the road. The "Strong recommendation: Do not move forward with this candidate" seems designed to preempt the equity gals from recommended a second and third look at this "top of the class, professor-recommended" knucklehead. "No, seriously, this guy is never going to work for Google. DO NOT WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON HIM. I am serious. No way in hell. Don't ask me how the top of the class at Howard is unqualified to be hired for a bottom of the heap programming job at Google, but it's true! NO MOVE FORWARD!"

    The rubber hits the road.

    I took Engineering 1 my third quarter at UCLA, which was the beginning programming class, using PL1, on the IBM mainframe (punch cards, pre desktop computers). I was surprised at how fun it was, so I signed up for the followup, Engineering 100, the following year. It was my first experience with a "weed out" class. I dropped it after two weeks. I was having fun, so I continued the maximum time you could and still drop it without credit, but it was so time consuming that I would have had to drop one of my major classes to continue. Our first assignment was to write a program in PL1, do the same thing in Algol 68 (up to us to learn this on our own, fast), and a third version in assembly language, which is where you directly manipulate the computer registers: simply adding two numbers takes several steps (again, minimal direction, learn it on your own). I managed to complete the assignment before bailing out.

    I've read that weed-out classes are racist, and misogynistic. You have to gently nurture students rather than subject them to Darwinian pressure. You want to keep BiPOCs and women in tech classes as long as possible. Let them build up huge loan balances, rather than find a more suitable major in time. Make sure they graduate. Then they can apply to Google, and experience one of these fun "No Move Forward" interviews, get rejected, and end up in a low level tech support job somewhere, paying off your student loans.

    Replies: @El Dato, @YetAnotherAnon, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Assembler really sorts the whizzkids from the “ordinary” (i.e. pretty bright) programmer. Some people can write twenty lines of code that does what 100 lines of a mortal’s code does. And you look at it, and see how it works, but you still can’t see how he thought of doing it that way.

    • Agree: El Dato
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @YetAnotherAnon

    APL code used to be like that. Guys would write insanely compact code using highly creative insights, that others would consider to be sure signs of genius. If you could decipher what the other guy had done, since APL used its own symbols for array operations.

    http://archive.vector.org.uk/content/printed/251/saigusa/image001.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D, @Achmed E. Newman, @martin_2

  69. @Jack D
    Right, April Christina Curley, secondary school teacher, knows that these kids are brilliant but the Google engineers think that they are no damn good at writing code. What do Google software engineers know about programming? Buncha racists.

    The hilarious thing is that April Christina Curley is so clueless and self centered that she expects the public to accept her judgment over that of the Google programmers. The sad thing is that in 2021 she is probably right.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Jus' Sayin'..., @joe_mama

    The hilarious thing is that April Christina Curley is so clueless and self centered that she expects the public to accept her judgment over that of the Google programmers.

    There’s been a lot of commentary on how left and right exist in realms not just of different opinions but now also of different facts (or non-facts and facts), but this April Curley case is the inversion of that. She’s posting Google’s objective, rational assessments of why her candidates didn’t get hired, but to her that is not objective evidence of her own failure, that is objective evidence of Google’s malfeasance.

    Alongside the separate realities phenomenon, there is increasingly also this samerealitybutoppositeconclusions phenomenon. Both phenomena are unconducive to social peace.

    Her lawyer must be pulling his hair out. He should relax though. As you suggest, in 2021 and beyond, these busted flushes increasingly look like winning hands.

    • Agree: Forbes
    • Thanks: AnotherDad
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Almost Missouri


    There’s been a lot of commentary on how left and right exist in realms not just of different opinions but now also of different facts (or non-facts and facts), but this April Curley case is the inversion of that. She’s posting Google’s objective, rational assessments of why her candidates didn’t get hired, but to her that is not objective evidence of her own failure, that is objective evidence of Google’s malfeasance.

    Alongside the separate realities phenomenon, there is increasingly also this same–reality–but–opposite–conclusions phenomenon. Both phenomena are unconducive to social peace.
     
    Good comment.

    In my career facts and logic mattered. Better reasoning would--usually--win arguments. Of course, there were practical considerations. ("Next release.") But superior arguments generally carried the day. People wanted to do stuff that actually made sense and would work.

    There have always been political disputes where the sides just don't agree. Abortion is a classic. The pro-abortion feminists did/do some lying about biology, but basically it's a values issues.

    But increasingly across a whole range of issues
    -- race
    -- sex "discrimination"
    -- LBGQWERTY
    -- crime
    -- policing
    -- effects of BLM
    -- trannies
    and, of course the big kahuna
    -- immigration
    both basic facts and basic logic are all one side, but the other side just doesn't accept the facts, and if the facts are forced to the surface, then they muster an alternative anti-logic.

    Their lodestar is simply minoritarianism: minorities oppressed/virtuous; white gentile males oppressive/evil. That is their "logical" system. So they parrot obvious absurdities like "diversity is our greatest strength" as holy writ.

    One can muster all the evidence, all the facts, all the logic ... does not move the needle. Facts? Logic? You might as well be arguing with a brick wall. White man's logic--only proves how much "work" is still to be done.

    There is no normal political "fix" for this. The best you can do is escape--get away from the anti-reason people. Separate nations.

    Replies: @John Pepple

  70. @wakeupscreaming
    Why are they still trying to make this happen?
    The NBA is filled with blacks. I don't see the managers freaking out, trying to help asians or filipinos join the Basketball ranks. I don't see them trying to do anything at all with the black over representation. I also see black overrepresentation in hiphop music. I don't see colleges or universities trying to "leg up" any other ethnic group. It just seems like careers that white males excel at are ALWAYS targetted for attack, but no other occupations are.

    Replies: @anonymous, @stillCARealist, @Forbes

    Because everybody knows that the NBA and hiphop aren’t meaningful. Computer programming is essential and matters greatly if it doesn’t work right.

    Sort of like how we all discovered that so many gov’t workers aren’t important in 2020, but the folks who put booze on the shelves are utterly essential.

  71. @angmojito
    Notably excluded from Washington Post's analysis is one of the largest tech companies in the world, its sister company Amazon.

    Replies: @SimpleSong, @AndrewR, @Almost Missouri

    Good catch.

    Also,

    Share of [black] technical workers, by race

    Apple*
    no change

    *No diversity figures available after 2018

    Stay based, Apple, stay based.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Almost Missouri

    Am I the only one who detected a whiff of lavender coming from Jobs?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Almost Missouri



    Apple*


    *No diversity figures available after 2018

     

    Stay based, Apple, stay based.
     
    Based in Ireland. Do they have laws like ours, or like France's?


    THE LITTLE IRISH APPLE COMPANY


    https://www.europeanceo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Apple-tax.jpg
  72. @JMcG
    @SafeNow

    If it was Mesa Airlines, your pilot could have been Conrad Aska, who later moved on to Atlas Airlines. In February of 2019, he flew one of their 767s into Trinity Bay on approach into Houston. I’m waiting for an exhaustive William Langewiesche article on the crash, but expect I’ll not see one.

    Replies: @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon

    That sounds like another autopilot arguing with captain arguing with first officer story.

    https://nypost.com/2019/12/20/texas-plane-pilots-last-words-before-crash-lord-you-have-my-soul/

    Capt. Ricky Blakely, First Officer Conrad Jules Aska and Mesa Airlines Capt. Sean Archuleta, who was riding in the jump seat, were killed Feb. 23 when the Boeing 767 operated by Atlas Air plunged into Trinity Bay.

    Seconds after air traffic controllers rerouted the aircraft around some precipitation, the crew began losing control on approach to Bush Intercontinental Airport.

    Aska, who had a record of repeatedly flunking flight tests, may have mistakenly thought the jet was stalling when its nose was pointed too high, so he jerked it down as the captain fought to pull up, according to the Nation Transportation Safety Board report.

    He added full takeoff power without telling Blakely, resulting in pandemonium in the cockpit, according to the report.

    “Whoa, (where’s) my speed, my speed,” Aska said, according to the transcript released by the National Transportation Safety Bureau. “We’re stalling. Stall.”

    Several thumping sounds could be heard in the cockpit as the plane plummeted 6,200 feet at an airspeed of 433.5 knots (499 mph) with the autopilot engaged before the flight data recorder stopped working.

    “Oh Lord, have mercy on myself,” Aska said seconds before impact as Archuleta yells for the pilots to pull up.

    “Lord, you have my soul,” Aska then says right before the plane slams into the marshy bay, scattering packages and debris across a wide swath.

    A distress call was never made from the doomed flight.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article235268072.html

    The brother of an Atlas Air pilot who was killed when a cargo plane crashed in February is suing the company.

    In May, Archuleta’s widow sued Atlas Air and Amazon in federal court, alleging the companies failed to adequately train their pilots and prevent the crash. That case is pending.

  73. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    Okay, not that different.

  74. The CEOs of Microsoft, Adobe, and Google are all TamBrams.

    Not that there’s anything wrong widdat, but how does that fit in with (((oh, never mind))).

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Paperback Writer

    Microsoft's Nadella was born in Hyderabad of present-day Telangana, India into a Telugu-speaking Hindu family.

    Adobe's Narayen grew up in Hyderabad, India, in a Telugu-speaking family.

  75. Fun fact: April Curley worked with another fired diversity hire, Timnit Gebru, an “Eritrean” born in Ethiopia. Eritrean is a bullshit word meaning Tigrayan, one of the main ethnic groups of Ethiopia, allied with their ethnic cousins, the Amhara.

    Both Tigrayans and Amhara refer to themselves as Habesha (i.e., Abyssinian), and look down on brown and black Ethiopians.

    But, like upper caste Indians, when they come to the US, they are black, and can make bank by stomping on Whitey.

  76. @Almost Missouri
    @angmojito

    Good catch.

    Also,


    Share of [black] technical workers, by race

    Apple*
    no change

    *No diversity figures available after 2018
     
    Stay based, Apple, stay based.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iZk_jdRv9K4/U9x5GImpIEI/AAAAAAAAAOk/ilHSgacLqPY/s1600/steve-jobs-think-different3.jpg

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar

    Am I the only one who detected a whiff of lavender coming from Jobs?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Paperback Writer

    Is having one (1) outfit the most straight guy thing ever?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  77. I’ve posted this before, I was a trainer for a major financial firm in and around 2010. Entry level FINRA series 7 exam. Our recruiting department spent most of there proactive dollars representing the firm at minority job fairs, on campus recruitment same, targeting black student groups etc. If black college grad or about to graduate it was virtually an automatic job offer even if the interview was bad. Even then, they still couldn’t the numbers they wanted. Then it was the training departments turn, get them to pass the series 7. We used baby step approach, plenty of one on one tutoring. We had a significantly higher fail rate with our black candidates then White test takers. I don’t ever remember a Asian candidate failing the exam. We gave almost everyone a second chance if they failed, but if white and a second fail it was maybe you should try something else. However minority candidates if they hadn’t took themselves out of the process at this point would get a third chance, usually to no avail.

    • Replies: @Moses
    @George Taylor

    My cousin works in trading at a big Wall Street bank. He’s running the summer internship program.

    He told me his bosses told him “no White hires this year” and also to prefer women.

    He also said “I interviewed everyone. All the non-White candidates sucked.”

    I told him it’s just a matter of time before some non-White or woman decides they want his job and fabricate some BS charge about him making them feel “uncomfortable” or some bullshit.

    Dunno why he’s still there. Corporate America is a hostile environment these days for a bright young White man.

    Replies: @Moses

  78. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20190223-0

    Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up. The airplane then pitched nose down over the next 18 seconds to about 49° in response to nose-down elevator deflection. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

    FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.

    The NTSB found that the first officer’s repeated uses of incomplete and inaccurate information about his employment history on resumes and applications were deliberate attempts to conceal his history of performance deficiencies and deprived Atlas Air and at least one other former employer of the opportunity to fully evaluate his aptitude and competency as a pilot.

    He had a long history of training performance difficulties and his tendency to respond impulsively and inappropriately when faced with an unexpected event during training scenarios at multiple employers suggest an inability to remain calm during stressful situations; a tendency that may have exacerbated his aptitude-related performance difficulties.

    Probable Cause: The NTSB determines that the probable cause of this accident was the inappropriate response by the first officer as the pilot flying to an inadvertent activation of the go-around mode, which led to his spatial disorientation and nose-down control inputs that placed the airplane in a steep descent from which the crew did not recover. Contributing to the accident was the captain’s failure to adequately monitor the airplane’s flightpath and assume positive control of the airplane to effectively intervene. Also contributing were systemic deficiencies in the aviation industry’s selection and performance measurement practices, which failed to address the first officer’s aptitude-related deficiencies and maladaptive stress response. Also contributing to the accident was the Federal Aviation Administration’s failure to implement the Pilot Records Database in a sufficiently robust and timely manner.

    Better stay on target

  79. @Achmed E. Newman
    @anon


    Insufficiently autistic, no doubt.
     
    She asked if I was on the spectrum, so I said yes. I thought she was talking vitamins. Yep, that was probably it, now that I think back on it ...

    Replies: @El Dato

    “Are you on the spectrum?”

    “What do you mean?”

    “Where exactly do you see yourself on this flag?”

    “Umm…. mocha brown?”

  80. eee says:
    @SafeNow
    Apart from the technical-competence issue, there is the chip-on-shoulder issue. About 10 years ago,while boarding a major national airline, I could see through the open cockpit door that the captain was black. My heart swelled with SJWarriorness, an unusual feeling for me. Well, when he came on the intercom, he announced that he was setting one of the passenger listening channels to monitor air traffic control, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other insulting humor emanated later.
    He might have been a competent pilot in the technical sense. But there are some people in life you expect to be serious, such as your surgeon, your dog’s vet, and your airline pilot. Many people are afraid of flying to begin with, and I suspect that having an unserious captain with an attitude problem undermined confidence and calmness.

    I don’t know to what degree this anecdote of an attitude problem can be extrapolated to relationships with colleagues at tech companies, the military, universities, or other businesses or institutions. I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    Replies: @bomag, @eee, @Bill Jones

    Other insulting humor emanated later.

    Sounds like self-deprecating humor, like he understood that only nerds would listen to air traffic control for fun and he is probably the kind of guy who does that, which is probably the kind of guy you want to be a pilot of a passenger jet.

  81. @Jack D
    Right, April Christina Curley, secondary school teacher, knows that these kids are brilliant but the Google engineers think that they are no damn good at writing code. What do Google software engineers know about programming? Buncha racists.

    The hilarious thing is that April Christina Curley is so clueless and self centered that she expects the public to accept her judgment over that of the Google programmers. The sad thing is that in 2021 she is probably right.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Jus' Sayin'..., @joe_mama

    One of my duties before I retired from my state’s Department of Public Health was interviewing candidates for programming positions within my unit. The HR department kept sending over “brilliant” Negro candidates for these positions who, when asked to write solutions to basic coding problems, did not have a clue how to proceed. (BTW, we made it clear during interviews that we were not concerned with coding syntax, just an understanding of basic concepts like looping, branching, arrays and the like and, for SQL, inner and outer joins and filters.) The candidates we interviewed were: (1) dressed to the nines; (2) extremely glib; (3) obviously either thought that they were smart and fast-talking enough to pull the wool over the eyes of interviewers or – a more frightening thought – really did think they were qualified for IT work; and (4) didn’t have a basic understanding of even the most fundamental programming concepts let alone how to apply these to solving very simple coding exercises.

    When we provided detailed written summaries of why we refused to hire the “brilliant” candidates, which HR was sending us, the information we provided was ignored. We were asked, over and over again, why we refused to hire these “very qualified” candidates. Eventually rumors began floating that our interview process and we interviewers were “racist”. Ultimately our unit’s hiring problems were solved by the extremely expensive expedient of arranging for a consulting firm to supply us with some of their coders. That way we could bypass the absurdly complicated state hiring process and the usually rather stupid and always profoundly computer illiterate HR staff who administered it.

    I am so glad to be free of this nonsense.

    • Thanks: Jack D
  82. We should be celebrating the fact that high performing Black math students are no longer relegated to mediocre HBCUs.

    When it comes to math, Big Tech and Wall Street accept nothing but the cream of the crop. Trillion$ are at stake.

  83. Related: P0WNED!

    At Least 30,000 U.S. Organizations Newly Hacked Via Holes in Microsoft’s Email Software

    It’s 2021. Do you know how problematic your Exchange Server Software is?

    At least 30,000 organizations across the United States — including a significant number of small businesses, towns, cities and local governments — have over the past few days been hacked by an unusually aggressive Chinese cyber espionage unit that’s focused on stealing email from victim organizations, multiple sources tell KrebsOnSecurity. The espionage group is exploiting four newly-discovered flaws in Microsoft Exchange Server email software, and has seeded hundreds of thousands of victim organizations worldwide with tools that give the attackers total, remote control over affected systems.

    1) How does anyone know these are Chinese and/or an “espionage group”? Did they leave fortune cookies on the servers?
    2) Who are those “multiple sources” who tell things?
    3) Where are those ” four newly-discovered flaws in Microsoft Exchange Server email software” suddenly come from, why were they there, why were they even exploitable and were they maybe in the NSA “exploit collection” and not fixed because of reasons?
    4) “That give the attackers total, remote control over affected systems”. How is this bullshit possible, known best practices have existed since before the GWOT (not so much in the Microsoft Universe, granted, but they got better). Did the system administrators run everything as the admin account? How dumb are they?

    Speaking on condition of anonymity, two cybersecurity experts who’ve briefed U.S. national security advisors on the attack told KrebsOnSecurity the Chinese hacking group thought to be responsible has seized control over “hundreds of thousands” of Microsoft Exchange Servers worldwide — with each victim system representing approximately one organization that uses Exchange to process email.

    “Anonymous cybersecurity experts” are compacted shit as a rule of thumb.

    Oh, so “hundreds of thousands”? Still no proof of those Chinese in the wires.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  84. @Anon

    We interviewed CandidateA, a graduating CS Senior, in May 2013. CandidateA was a faculty referral and allegedly one of the best CS students at Howard. Interview score of 1.1;

    Strong No Move Forward. Couldn’t handle basic algorithms. Couldn’t handle working with java collections beyond absolute surface level. Does not understand code in any depth.
     
    What I would give to have been a fly on the wall of that interview. A cocky young guy at the top of his class ... and then the rubber hits the road. The "Strong recommendation: Do not move forward with this candidate" seems designed to preempt the equity gals from recommended a second and third look at this "top of the class, professor-recommended" knucklehead. "No, seriously, this guy is never going to work for Google. DO NOT WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON HIM. I am serious. No way in hell. Don't ask me how the top of the class at Howard is unqualified to be hired for a bottom of the heap programming job at Google, but it's true! NO MOVE FORWARD!"

    The rubber hits the road.

    I took Engineering 1 my third quarter at UCLA, which was the beginning programming class, using PL1, on the IBM mainframe (punch cards, pre desktop computers). I was surprised at how fun it was, so I signed up for the followup, Engineering 100, the following year. It was my first experience with a "weed out" class. I dropped it after two weeks. I was having fun, so I continued the maximum time you could and still drop it without credit, but it was so time consuming that I would have had to drop one of my major classes to continue. Our first assignment was to write a program in PL1, do the same thing in Algol 68 (up to us to learn this on our own, fast), and a third version in assembly language, which is where you directly manipulate the computer registers: simply adding two numbers takes several steps (again, minimal direction, learn it on your own). I managed to complete the assignment before bailing out.

    I've read that weed-out classes are racist, and misogynistic. You have to gently nurture students rather than subject them to Darwinian pressure. You want to keep BiPOCs and women in tech classes as long as possible. Let them build up huge loan balances, rather than find a more suitable major in time. Make sure they graduate. Then they can apply to Google, and experience one of these fun "No Move Forward" interviews, get rejected, and end up in a low level tech support job somewhere, paying off your student loans.

    Replies: @El Dato, @YetAnotherAnon, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Linear algebra, usually in the third semester, as a lead in to multivariate calculus and/or analysis is the traditional filter in mathematics departments. About half the math majors in my class switched to economics or something similar after barely making it through linear algebra. To be fair, the course was conducted at a fairly high level of abstraction. Hoffman and Kunze was the text.

    • Replies: @Gringo
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Linear algebra, usually in the third semester, as a lead in to multivariate calculus and/or analysis is the traditional filter in mathematics departments. About half the math majors in my class switched to economics or something similar after barely making it through linear algebra.

    The Linear Algebra course I took was heavy on proofs. I had no problem doing the proofs, as my New Math - a.ka. Illinois Math- courses in high school emphasized proofs from the beginning. There were a lot of low grades in that Linear Algebra course. Maybe half the class got a D or lower.

  85. @TyRade
    it's almost as if the Hidden Figures are, well, hidden.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    it’s almost as if the Hidden Figures are, well, hidden.

    Poor April Christina Curley, just another hidden figure, another victim of racisssm!

  86. @Anon
    April is a good example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. She's so stupid she can't assess the brains of another person. If she was smart enough to code herself, she'd be able to spot a dummy who couldn't code.

    By the way, if Historic Black Colleges are graduating programmers who can't code, their classes are a retarded joke.

    Replies: @anon, @Luzzatto, @J.Ross, @AceDeuce

    Negroes literally can’t see past “negro”. That’s sufficient for them.

  87. @SafeNow
    Apart from the technical-competence issue, there is the chip-on-shoulder issue. About 10 years ago,while boarding a major national airline, I could see through the open cockpit door that the captain was black. My heart swelled with SJWarriorness, an unusual feeling for me. Well, when he came on the intercom, he announced that he was setting one of the passenger listening channels to monitor air traffic control, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other insulting humor emanated later.
    He might have been a competent pilot in the technical sense. But there are some people in life you expect to be serious, such as your surgeon, your dog’s vet, and your airline pilot. Many people are afraid of flying to begin with, and I suspect that having an unserious captain with an attitude problem undermined confidence and calmness.

    I don’t know to what degree this anecdote of an attitude problem can be extrapolated to relationships with colleagues at tech companies, the military, universities, or other businesses or institutions. I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    Replies: @JMcG, @AceDeuce

    It could have been worse. Negro pilot Auburn Calloway, who “had issues” while flying with the Navy, and later with Flying Tiger, got on with Fed Ex, where he also had issues. He then decided to hijack and crash a fed Ex aircraft that he wangled a ride on as a passenger.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @JMcG
    @AceDeuce

    That Marine F18 pilot that killed himself and an entire aerial tanker crew a little while ago over the western Pacific? Guess what?

    Replies: @AceDeuce, @Jim Don Bob

  88. Steve’s original explanation is probably the correct one: there aren’t a lot of talented black math and science students out there, and regular universities are probably hoovering up all of the ones there are, not leaving many (if any) for the HBCUs.

    If you’re a black student with strong math and science skills it’s going to show on your ACT, SAT, and AP test scores, and the good schools are going to be chasing you down. If you have real math and science talent you’re probably also going to spend lots of time associating with mostly white and Asian kids, at least in class (assuming your school isn’t 99% NAM) and in clubs, competitions, etc. You’re going to know where these kids are planning to go to college and you’ll want to attend the same places they are going. And if you aren’t quite clued in enough to know that then your counselor and science teachers are going to clue you in.

    The types of intelligent blacks who attend HBCUs are going to be the students who plan to major in fields like liberal arts, literature, political science, etc., where “the black experience” bears some supposed relation to your studies. Black STEM majors aren’t going to care as much – at least not enough to pass up a genuinely good school for an HBCU.

    All of this is similar to what happened to black communities in general when segregation ended and blacks were able to move in to white neighborhoods. The old black neighborhoods saw a huge brain drain, as the smart, high income blacks moved out and left all of the dumber, dysfunctional ones behind.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Wilkey

    Alternatively, there aren't that many black programming geniuses to begin with. A lot of times blacks will get recruited to places like Stanford. Right off the bat, the rest of the students all have 15+IQ points on them and when they get there, they realize that their education has been deficient to boot and they are up against Asian kids who have been coding since they were 8 and who can run circles around them in their sleep (the same way that blacks can run circles around most Asians on the basketball court) and they decide that maybe they'll be African-American Studies majors instead.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Luzzatto
    @Wilkey

    There is a higher percentage of Whites in The NBA than there are Blacks in Silicon Valley tech companies. That must really piss the Black man off!

    Replies: @Hibernian

  89. @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.
     
    That's likely true, but it's also that she is not bright enough to even ascertain whether these Howard grads are actually brilliant or not. She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Back when I was doing some software work: "Do you have Visual Basic?" "What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It's not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that's what you mean, you dumb broad." I didn't get hired, but that's not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Oh, and Google and all the rest of them should stop freakin' calling these people engineers. Almost NONE of them are engineers. They are software developers or programmers.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @anon, @Forbes, @Pericles, @Jack Armstrong

    Back in the ’80s–the 1980s, in the 20th century!–I worked for a gas & electric utility, located in the Mountain West. We had a summer intern program (back when interns were paid a salary) for engineering students at Florida A&M University, a HBCU, as a pipeline to hiring minority (black) engineering graduates. This is (obviously) well before 21st century virtue-signaling of diversity, inclusion, equity. This program went on for years (pre- and post- my tenure with the company).

    Jobs offers were regularly made to those graduated interns. I an unaware of any who ever accepted the job offer made for the entry-level training program for engineers. I’m sure someone was once hired, so it wasn’t entirely fruitless, but…

  90. @wakeupscreaming
    Why are they still trying to make this happen?
    The NBA is filled with blacks. I don't see the managers freaking out, trying to help asians or filipinos join the Basketball ranks. I don't see them trying to do anything at all with the black over representation. I also see black overrepresentation in hiphop music. I don't see colleges or universities trying to "leg up" any other ethnic group. It just seems like careers that white males excel at are ALWAYS targetted for attack, but no other occupations are.

    Replies: @anonymous, @stillCARealist, @Forbes

    Well, that’s the point.

    It’s easier to get the mob emotionally riled-up over an issue, e.g. by claiming unfairness! or injustice!, rather than it is to explain the situation with logic and reason beyond most mob members’ cognitive capability.

  91. @Almost Missouri
    @angmojito

    Good catch.

    Also,


    Share of [black] technical workers, by race

    Apple*
    no change

    *No diversity figures available after 2018
     
    Stay based, Apple, stay based.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iZk_jdRv9K4/U9x5GImpIEI/AAAAAAAAAOk/ilHSgacLqPY/s1600/steve-jobs-think-different3.jpg

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar

    Apple*

    *No diversity figures available after 2018

    Stay based, Apple, stay based.

    Based in Ireland. Do they have laws like ours, or like France’s?

    THE LITTLE IRISH APPLE COMPANY

  92. @Almost Missouri
    @Jack D


    The hilarious thing is that April Christina Curley is so clueless and self centered that she expects the public to accept her judgment over that of the Google programmers.
     
    There's been a lot of commentary on how left and right exist in realms not just of different opinions but now also of different facts (or non-facts and facts), but this April Curley case is the inversion of that. She's posting Google's objective, rational assessments of why her candidates didn't get hired, but to her that is not objective evidence of her own failure, that is objective evidence of Google's malfeasance.

    Alongside the separate realities phenomenon, there is increasingly also this same-reality-but-opposite-conclusions phenomenon. Both phenomena are unconducive to social peace.

    Her lawyer must be pulling his hair out. He should relax though. As you suggest, in 2021 and beyond, these busted flushes increasingly look like winning hands.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    There’s been a lot of commentary on how left and right exist in realms not just of different opinions but now also of different facts (or non-facts and facts), but this April Curley case is the inversion of that. She’s posting Google’s objective, rational assessments of why her candidates didn’t get hired, but to her that is not objective evidence of her own failure, that is objective evidence of Google’s malfeasance.

    Alongside the separate realities phenomenon, there is increasingly also this same–reality–but–opposite–conclusions phenomenon. Both phenomena are unconducive to social peace.

    Good comment.

    In my career facts and logic mattered. Better reasoning would–usually–win arguments. Of course, there were practical considerations. (“Next release.”) But superior arguments generally carried the day. People wanted to do stuff that actually made sense and would work.

    There have always been political disputes where the sides just don’t agree. Abortion is a classic. The pro-abortion feminists did/do some lying about biology, but basically it’s a values issues.

    But increasingly across a whole range of issues
    — race
    — sex “discrimination”
    — LBGQWERTY
    — crime
    — policing
    — effects of BLM
    — trannies
    and, of course the big kahuna
    — immigration
    both basic facts and basic logic are all one side, but the other side just doesn’t accept the facts, and if the facts are forced to the surface, then they muster an alternative anti-logic.

    Their lodestar is simply minoritarianism: minorities oppressed/virtuous; white gentile males oppressive/evil. That is their “logical” system. So they parrot obvious absurdities like “diversity is our greatest strength” as holy writ.

    One can muster all the evidence, all the facts, all the logic … does not move the needle. Facts? Logic? You might as well be arguing with a brick wall. White man’s logic–only proves how much “work” is still to be done.

    There is no normal political “fix” for this. The best you can do is escape–get away from the anti-reason people. Separate nations.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @John Pepple
    @AnotherDad

    This seems to come down to the old rationalism/empiricism split. We have empirical evidence on our side, but it doesn't matter to them because their pure reason says we're wrong. They know it because ... well, it seems to come down to their thinking that certain opinions should not be held because it is racist to do so.

    This was evident in that


    NY Times
     
    review of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book. Hirsi is black and grew up in the Muslim world, but that kind of experience didn't cut it with the white, anti-racist reviewer. The anti-racist view of Muslims is that they are not causing any problems for women or anyone else, and that's the end of the matter.

    Replies: @John Pepple

  93. @PiltdownMan
    Maybe Google CEO could announce that a DNA test has established that he and the late jazz musician Milt Jackson had a common West African ancestor.

    Perhaps that will take some of the heat off Google.

    https://i.imgur.com/LeFViHV.jpg

    Replies: @Escher, @rec1man

    The effect of India having been “enriched” by multiple waves of diverse invasions and the associated genetic mixing.

  94. @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.
     
    That's likely true, but it's also that she is not bright enough to even ascertain whether these Howard grads are actually brilliant or not. She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Back when I was doing some software work: "Do you have Visual Basic?" "What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It's not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that's what you mean, you dumb broad." I didn't get hired, but that's not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Oh, and Google and all the rest of them should stop freakin' calling these people engineers. Almost NONE of them are engineers. They are software developers or programmers.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @anon, @Forbes, @Pericles, @Jack Armstrong

    She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Not just HR but also roughly all third party recruiters, lol. I sometimes wonder how this situation can persist year after year.

  95. Google hired April Christina Curley, a black lesbian…

    @RealAbril

    @RealAbril = Labial, [email protected]

    with an MA from Johns Hopkins (in secondary school teaching)

    Wow. She couldn’t even pull off an EdD. At an HCBU, no less!

    In 2014 when I started, the very first thing Google gave me was their “Project Bison Proposal”…

    Someone’s being buffaloed here.

    • Replies: @Luzzatto
    @Reg Cæsar

    I'm surprised the Black Lesbian is not accusing her former employer Google of homophobia as well, she is only sticking with 1 card the race card when she could have easy used both to her advantage.

    Unless she thinks the masses would not see it as believable that Google can be anti-LGBTQ, anti-Black yes but not anti-LGBTQ. In the African American community they believe that White Democrat elitists like LGBTQ people way more than they like Black people and Google is ran by White Democrat elitists.

    African Americans point to the fact that same sex marriage is legal but slavery reperations are not as an example that White Democrat elitists like LGBTQ people way more than they like Blacks!

  96. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/RealAbril/status/1354922395811811331

    Replies: @AndrewR, @El Dato, @Hypnotoad666, @Escher

    Blacks can’t even do a good job of hiring their fellow blacks…

  97. @Wilkey
    Steve’s original explanation is probably the correct one: there aren’t a lot of talented black math and science students out there, and regular universities are probably hoovering up all of the ones there are, not leaving many (if any) for the HBCUs.

    If you’re a black student with strong math and science skills it’s going to show on your ACT, SAT, and AP test scores, and the good schools are going to be chasing you down. If you have real math and science talent you’re probably also going to spend lots of time associating with mostly white and Asian kids, at least in class (assuming your school isn’t 99% NAM) and in clubs, competitions, etc. You’re going to know where these kids are planning to go to college and you’ll want to attend the same places they are going. And if you aren’t quite clued in enough to know that then your counselor and science teachers are going to clue you in.

    The types of intelligent blacks who attend HBCUs are going to be the students who plan to major in fields like liberal arts, literature, political science, etc., where “the black experience” bears some supposed relation to your studies. Black STEM majors aren’t going to care as much - at least not enough to pass up a genuinely good school for an HBCU.

    All of this is similar to what happened to black communities in general when segregation ended and blacks were able to move in to white neighborhoods. The old black neighborhoods saw a huge brain drain, as the smart, high income blacks moved out and left all of the dumber, dysfunctional ones behind.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Luzzatto

    Alternatively, there aren’t that many black programming geniuses to begin with. A lot of times blacks will get recruited to places like Stanford. Right off the bat, the rest of the students all have 15+IQ points on them and when they get there, they realize that their education has been deficient to boot and they are up against Asian kids who have been coding since they were 8 and who can run circles around them in their sleep (the same way that blacks can run circles around most Asians on the basketball court) and they decide that maybe they’ll be African-American Studies majors instead.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Jack D



    Alternatively, there aren’t that many black programming geniuses to begin with.
     
    Most day-to-day programming isn't super-difficult. There are some exceptions--ex. race conditions--and much more complicated areas like vision and AI.

    But it all has one particular characteristic--you actually have to make it work! (And be error free enough to ship.) Just hand waving b.s. doesn't cut it.

    Smart blacks tend to be "ok enough" in verbal skills to succeed in verbalist occupations. But the sort of detailed, clear, logical thinking--this must happened, follow by precisely this, then this, then either this or that dependent on that unless this or that ... or it falls apart--just isn't a black strength.
  98. I find it astonishing how Google and these others companies for all their power and psychopathic self-interests haven’t just tried to make the argument that they don’t control the supply of black people with the requisite credentials and that it’s the universities and education systems are the ones who are responsible for that, not them.

    • Replies: @black sea
    @Altai

    Actually, they have made this argument.

    , @AceDeuce
    @Altai

    It's the blacks themselves that are actually responsible.

    , @Neil Templeton
    @Altai


    haven’t just tried to make the argument
     
    Only within the heavy spectrum channels of Unz and other fine forays could one maintain the fantasy that logic and argument have one thousandth the persuasive power of the four show ponies of the Apocalypse: appeal to emotion; appeal to authority; ad hominem and; selling out your comrades.
  99. @James Speaks
    Coders of Color should be paired with racist whites and Asians.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Coders of Color should be paired with racist whites and Asians.

    This was a mistake.

    Coders of Color should be paired with woke whites, as in all woke whites must have a Coder of Color to mentor. Think of the possibilities.

    • Agree: Paperback Writer
  100. @Wilkey
    Steve’s original explanation is probably the correct one: there aren’t a lot of talented black math and science students out there, and regular universities are probably hoovering up all of the ones there are, not leaving many (if any) for the HBCUs.

    If you’re a black student with strong math and science skills it’s going to show on your ACT, SAT, and AP test scores, and the good schools are going to be chasing you down. If you have real math and science talent you’re probably also going to spend lots of time associating with mostly white and Asian kids, at least in class (assuming your school isn’t 99% NAM) and in clubs, competitions, etc. You’re going to know where these kids are planning to go to college and you’ll want to attend the same places they are going. And if you aren’t quite clued in enough to know that then your counselor and science teachers are going to clue you in.

    The types of intelligent blacks who attend HBCUs are going to be the students who plan to major in fields like liberal arts, literature, political science, etc., where “the black experience” bears some supposed relation to your studies. Black STEM majors aren’t going to care as much - at least not enough to pass up a genuinely good school for an HBCU.

    All of this is similar to what happened to black communities in general when segregation ended and blacks were able to move in to white neighborhoods. The old black neighborhoods saw a huge brain drain, as the smart, high income blacks moved out and left all of the dumber, dysfunctional ones behind.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Luzzatto

    There is a higher percentage of Whites in The NBA than there are Blacks in Silicon Valley tech companies. That must really piss the Black man off!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Luzzatto


    There is a higher percentage of Whites in The NBA than there are Blacks in Silicon Valley tech companies.
     
    Yes, and those whites are almost all from Europe.
  101. @Altai
    I find it astonishing how Google and these others companies for all their power and psychopathic self-interests haven't just tried to make the argument that they don't control the supply of black people with the requisite credentials and that it's the universities and education systems are the ones who are responsible for that, not them.

    Replies: @black sea, @AceDeuce, @Neil Templeton

    Actually, they have made this argument.

  102. @Jack D
    @Wilkey

    Alternatively, there aren't that many black programming geniuses to begin with. A lot of times blacks will get recruited to places like Stanford. Right off the bat, the rest of the students all have 15+IQ points on them and when they get there, they realize that their education has been deficient to boot and they are up against Asian kids who have been coding since they were 8 and who can run circles around them in their sleep (the same way that blacks can run circles around most Asians on the basketball court) and they decide that maybe they'll be African-American Studies majors instead.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Alternatively, there aren’t that many black programming geniuses to begin with.

    Most day-to-day programming isn’t super-difficult. There are some exceptions–ex. race conditions–and much more complicated areas like vision and AI.

    But it all has one particular characteristic–you actually have to make it work! (And be error free enough to ship.) Just hand waving b.s. doesn’t cut it.

    Smart blacks tend to be “ok enough” in verbal skills to succeed in verbalist occupations. But the sort of detailed, clear, logical thinking–this must happened, follow by precisely this, then this, then either this or that dependent on that unless this or that … or it falls apart–just isn’t a black strength.

  103. @Reg Cæsar

    Google hired April Christina Curley, a black lesbian...

    @RealAbril
     

    @RealAbril = Labial, [email protected]

    with an MA from Johns Hopkins (in secondary school teaching)

     

    Wow. She couldn't even pull off an EdD. At an HCBU, no less!

    In 2014 when I started, the very first thing Google gave me was their “Project Bison Proposal”...
     
    Someone's being buffaloed here.

    Replies: @Luzzatto

    I’m surprised the Black Lesbian is not accusing her former employer Google of homophobia as well, she is only sticking with 1 card the race card when she could have easy used both to her advantage.

    Unless she thinks the masses would not see it as believable that Google can be anti-LGBTQ, anti-Black yes but not anti-LGBTQ. In the African American community they believe that White Democrat elitists like LGBTQ people way more than they like Black people and Google is ran by White Democrat elitists.

    African Americans point to the fact that same sex marriage is legal but slavery reperations are not as an example that White Democrat elitists like LGBTQ people way more than they like Blacks!

  104. There has been some increased black hiring at least at Microsoft and Twitter.

    But the two striking things here:

    2) Invisible Hispanics.
    The Hispanic numbers are laughable. Compared to blacks there actually are plenty of Hispanics who are intelligent enough to fill a technical role. But Google and Facebook, headquartered in California (40% Hispanic and 50% for it’s newly minted young adults), have 3-4% Hispanics. They really are the invisible minority. For TPTB diversity==blacks. (Hispanics getting that message from American “elites” in this year of George may account for Trump’s improved showing.)

    1) Whites being replaced by Asians across the board.
    Taking stuff whites built from them and their children continues apace. Seems to be the one constant in “minoritarian America”.

    • Replies: @Luzzatto
    @AnotherDad

    Hispanic academic performance in K-12 public schools is a lot closer to that of African American students than it is to White students. So I don’t know why you would claim there are plenty of Hispanics who are intelligent enough to fill a technical role at Microsoft and Twitter, if that were true there would be no need for affirmative action for Hispanics in academia.

    Not a lot of Hispanic engineers and Hispanic STEM geniuses coming out of the barrios where they shot the intro for Chico And The Man!
    https://youtu.be/5HWFVfpWNHM

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  105. Can someone explain to me how twitter has so much hispanic tech talent? Is that an error in the graph

  106. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    I, for one, think Google ought to hire all the black programmers it wants. Under such a massive load of dimwits, Google will stumble, start being stupid, and start falling apart. The dummies will achieve what all the trust-busting legislation couldn’t. They will destroy Google as a competent company and make everyone else turn elsewhere for alternatives. Once Laquisha is hired, she’s start trying to get all the smart white guys fired. She’ll chase away all the talent with her malignant jealousy.

    Napoleon: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

    • Replies: @Sick 'n Tired
    @Anon

    The thing with companies like Google is that pretty much all the infrastructure and algorithms are already built, in place, and are up & running. They no longer need the skills initially required that they did when the company was getting started. Most of it is just maintenance of current servers and developing new branches like A.I and apps. All the heavy lifting development wise has already been done.

  107. @AndrewR
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The BB is the new Onion. The Onion itself has become humorless and fully regime-compliant.

    Replies: @Anon55uu, @Sick 'n Tired

    The Onion was bought by a big Hillary donor at the start of 2016. No surprise in its decline

    • Thanks: sayless
  108. State of AI in 10 Charts.

    https://hai.stanford.edu/blog/state-ai-10-charts

    See Chart #4:

    Ethics infiltrates Research

    “Ethics Research”? Kill two birds with one stone. Or anyone with stones with two birds. Justify your censorship agenda, fill the DIE quotas demanded by HR.

  109. @Altai
    I find it astonishing how Google and these others companies for all their power and psychopathic self-interests haven't just tried to make the argument that they don't control the supply of black people with the requisite credentials and that it's the universities and education systems are the ones who are responsible for that, not them.

    Replies: @black sea, @AceDeuce, @Neil Templeton

    It’s the blacks themselves that are actually responsible.

  110. For reasons which are not material, my son was at the Microsoft headquarters campus in Renton, Washington five years ago. The building he was in was full of Asian Indians. Very few whites. Blacks? No.
    Microsoft management had installed art work along the hallways. The Indians walked down the halls with their laptops open and did not look at the art. Some of the art work had graffiti on it.
    I have no idea what jobs the Visa-dudes were performing.

  111. Somebody with experience needs to set Ms Curley straight. I recommend this guy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Moe

  112. @AnotherDad
    There has been some increased black hiring at least at Microsoft and Twitter.

    But the two striking things here:

    2) Invisible Hispanics.
    The Hispanic numbers are laughable. Compared to blacks there actually are plenty of Hispanics who are intelligent enough to fill a technical role. But Google and Facebook, headquartered in California (40% Hispanic and 50% for it's newly minted young adults), have 3-4% Hispanics. They really are the invisible minority. For TPTB diversity==blacks. (Hispanics getting that message from American "elites" in this year of George may account for Trump's improved showing.)

    1) Whites being replaced by Asians across the board.
    Taking stuff whites built from them and their children continues apace. Seems to be the one constant in "minoritarian America".

    Replies: @Luzzatto

    Hispanic academic performance in K-12 public schools is a lot closer to that of African American students than it is to White students. So I don’t know why you would claim there are plenty of Hispanics who are intelligent enough to fill a technical role at Microsoft and Twitter, if that were true there would be no need for affirmative action for Hispanics in academia.

    Not a lot of Hispanic engineers and Hispanic STEM geniuses coming out of the barrios where they shot the intro for Chico And The Man!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Luzzatto

    'Hispanic academic performance in K-12 public schools is a lot closer to that of African American students than it is to White students.'

    Having taught all three groups, I feel confident in asserting that whatever the statistics, Hispanics are perfectly intelligent but blacks, as a rule, aren't.

    ...part of the problem with Hispanics is that in most Hispanic families, any grade seems to be fine, as long as you pass. The result is that yes, you can extract excellent performances from Hispanic students.

    You just have to grade like Genghis Khan on a bad day.

    Replies: @Luzzatto

  113. @Spud Boy
    Former Silicon Valley engineer here with a brain teaser I used to throw at candidates:

    You are in a room with three light switches on the wall; each switch is connected to one light bulb in the adjacent room, separated by a door so you can't see the bulbs. You can position the light switches in any way you want, then you must enter the room only once and ascertain which switch is connected to which bulb. How do you do it?

    Replies: @Neil Templeton

    One on, one off, one halfway to flicker. Otherwise, one on, one off, flick the third one on for a few seconds to heat it up, then turn it off and check the bulbs for light and temperature. But don’t worry, I’m 59 and never learned how to code.

  114. @AndrewR
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The BB is the new Onion. The Onion itself has become humorless and fully regime-compliant.

    Replies: @Anon55uu, @Sick 'n Tired

    The Onion’s satire headlines have now become indistinguishable from the actual news headlines and stories, some of which are even less believable than anything The Onion ever put out.

    • Replies: @Luzzatto
    @Sick 'n Tired

    The Psycho franchise is being Cancel Cultured for Transphobia!
    https://thejewishvoice.com/2021/03/cancel-hitchcock-psycho-guess-whos-coming-to-dinner-among-the-iconic-films-turner-classic-movies-deems-problematic/

  115. @ScarletNumber
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?
     
    Yes, all of them.

    Do you have Visual Basic?
     
    Why didn't you just say "yes"?

    Replies: @Abolish_public_education, @Badger Down

    Yes, but I wear glasses for reading.

  116. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    Their gimmick for Maps to compete with Yelp is a corporations-are-people thing where a business can “identify as women-led:”

    https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/info-tech/google-maps-rools-out-women-led-attribute-for-businesses/article22981488.ece

    Once you define Diversity as whatever it is you happen to already have a lot of, it’s easy to be Diverse.

    There’s a fried chicken place in Long Beach that has the “LGBTQ friendly” database flag, I just noticed (so they are into Q after all). That characteristic of the establishment evaded my gaydar, so now why wouldn’t *every* business identify as certified-virtuous? Except for the bad ones led by bad people, of course. Seems like another 100 Flowers Campaign from Mountain View.

  117. @bjdubbs
    "In 2014, I was hired at Google to fundamentally shift the relationship (or lack thereof) that Google had with Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Before my role existed, Google had NEVER, and I mean fucking NEVER hired an HBCU student into a tech role Please read that shit again. It’s as egregious as it sounds. At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles"

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%

    Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY), @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    “At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles”

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%
    – – – – –
    The proportional increase from 0 to 300 is (amount of increase)/(original amount) = 300/0 = infinity, which is indeed “over 300%”.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    It was impressed on me that division by zero is impossible, although intuitively it seems reasonable that anything divided by zero is infinity. I think it would be best to say that for any constant K, K/x approaches infinity as x approaches 0.

    Replies: @International Jew

    , @Templar
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    You are technically correct...
    The best kind of correct!

  118. @Altai
    I find it astonishing how Google and these others companies for all their power and psychopathic self-interests haven't just tried to make the argument that they don't control the supply of black people with the requisite credentials and that it's the universities and education systems are the ones who are responsible for that, not them.

    Replies: @black sea, @AceDeuce, @Neil Templeton

    haven’t just tried to make the argument

    Only within the heavy spectrum channels of Unz and other fine forays could one maintain the fantasy that logic and argument have one thousandth the persuasive power of the four show ponies of the Apocalypse: appeal to emotion; appeal to authority; ad hominem and; selling out your comrades.

  119. I work in the trades, when I had around 5 years in I had completed a few big projects for the company I had started in with zero experience. When I left that company, and applied to a new one, the old man who owned the new one asked me to bring my tools to the interview. He looked at the tools I had in my pouch, showed me which ones he carried, asked a few questions which he immediately picked apart my answers, and hired me on the spot. His reasoning was that I had a tool pouch, my tools were maintained, quality brands, and I could follow the directions needed to complete tasks in our field.

    AKA, I could do the work, which is pretty much any company is really looking for, regardless of what type of work it is. Coding, nursing, firefighting, plumbing, electrical, truck driving, finance, etc, competence and ability matter, not skin color.

    • Agree: AceDeuce, Hibernian
  120. Just shows to go ya, you’re living in the land of Oz. A college degree from any college (not just HBCU’s) is just a piece of paper, and only a piece of paper, declaring that the Wizard of Emerald City has given some brains to the scarecrow. It changes NOTHING! The scarecrow still doesn’t have a brain but has a piece of paper to pretend that he (they) has (have) a brain. I guess that I have to put on my ruby slippers and close my eyes and repeat There’s no place like home. There’s no place like home. Rats! I just opened my eyes to see a bunch of brainless scarecrows pretending to be smart and a bunch of cowardly lions (white people) too scared to even speak out about this fairytale.

    • Agree: Calvin Hobbes
  121. @Elmer T. Jones
    @MIC

    Pros would never stand for this interview abuse. It's time to re-release my timeless classic "Employment Game - What "they" don't want you to know about finding work in a feminized economy".

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    Please do.

    • Replies: @Elmer T. Jones
    @Paperback Writer

    Thanks. The first edition was released right before the Trump economy took off and nobody needed job hunting advice. At 61 I used to tactics to find work in the former industrial midwest city I am currently living in, and for the last two years have enjoyed a pretty sweet startup gig where I work alone designing laser material processing equipment. Part of my success is due to installing website blocking apps on all my computers so my only portal to posting stupid comments is on this forum using a crappy tablet. Since the turnaround time for comment approval here is about 12 hours I do not get the endorphin rush that leads to social media addiction. My productivity has skyrocketed.

  122. . . . but . . .

    . . . WAKANDA !

  123. @AceDeuce
    @SafeNow

    It could have been worse. Negro pilot Auburn Calloway, who "had issues" while flying with the Navy, and later with Flying Tiger, got on with Fed Ex, where he also had issues. He then decided to hijack and crash a fed Ex aircraft that he wangled a ride on as a passenger.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

    Replies: @JMcG

    That Marine F18 pilot that killed himself and an entire aerial tanker crew a little while ago over the western Pacific? Guess what?

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    @JMcG

    Thanks. Wow--I didn't know about that.

    "Jahmar" was his first name. Bottom of his flight class.

    It's only going to get worse.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @JMcG

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/09/23/marine-corps-finds-unprofessional-command-led-fatal-midair-crash-killed-6.html.

    tl:dr: The guy was doing a night time aerial refueling, even though he had no experience doing night time aerial refueling, made "an atypical maneuver", "lost situational awareness" (couldn't figure out wtf he was), got above the tanker, went across it from left to right and clipped the tail. He and the five guys on the tanker died. His wizzo lived after being pulled from the water.

  124. @Sick 'n Tired
    @AndrewR

    The Onion's satire headlines have now become indistinguishable from the actual news headlines and stories, some of which are even less believable than anything The Onion ever put out.

    Replies: @Luzzatto

  125. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    You left out the best part. The family of the incompetent panicky pilot, Conrad Aksa, is suing the airline and the maintenance companies/

    https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-atlas-air-fatal-crash-pilots-sue-2019-9

    You’re a lawyer – what defense does the airline have? They allowed an incompetent to fly – when they defend themselves, what do they say – “It’s not mechanical negligence, it was affirmative action. Yeah, we were negligent – in giving this guy a job.”

    The families of the two other pilots really should be the ones to sue.

  126. @J.Ross
    @Anon

    Dunning-Kruger is a moronic rebranding of sophomorism. It is the false confidence larval academics have from a little knowledge, which they regret once they achieve mastery. This is what Dunning's and Kruger's actual research followed. It has since been relied upon by the lyingpress to sell the Emperor's New Clothes, since the people who claim the Emperor is naked rarely have a tailoring license, and therefore must be wrong and stupid. This example is actually far worse than a sophomoric computer sciences student misjudging his colleagues. April isn't at the level of a sophomoric student in the field. She doesn't soffer from a little over-relied-upon computer knowledge, rather she doesn't have any.

    Replies: @sayless, @Anon

    Yes, it seems not to have occurred to April that maybe she was really not very good at her job, and that was why they let her go.

  127. Years ago in posh European hotels the maintenance staff often wore a jacket,dress shirt and tie…so, give the custodial jobs to HBCU grads, let them dress nicely and pay them $100K to start. Oh, and a business card too. That will shut up people like Ms.Curley.

  128. Anon[925] • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s another peek into Google diversity, mostly concerning women. Around the time of the James Damore “Google Memo” controversy a dot-Indian tech woman who had previously worked at Google posted a Medium article about how she had helped out in recruiting for women on the side. It’s very Bidenesque in the way that she lets slip all kinds of stuff you aren’t supposed to say while ostensibly supporting the You Go Girl message.

    I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!
    We must stop fucking it up for the amazing women in tech!

    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    In the copious hiring I did at Google, 97% of the people I hired were men. I wrote reams of appeals to the hiring committee to make cases for cross-functional candidates who would be great assets to Google, … I had a 90+% success rate changing the hiring decision for these candidates.

    It’s not like I wasn’t trying to hire women. But I was working with a candidate pool composed of 90% men. Try software engineers with experience in sensors, wireless and hardware stacks before angrily correcting my stats there. There was no way I was going to come out of that with a larger percentage of women hires than I did….

    [MORE]

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far.

    We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool…. we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.

    I’m a mother of two kids — a 7 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. They both generally have a reasonably good grasp of math and logic. You could say they are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics (with a mom that scored an 800 in GRE analytics and a dad that scored an 800 in GRE quants, anything else would be unexplainable).

    This summer, we got into beginner Python. The boy can’t stop taking on problems while the girl has declared that she hates it. She’s very ready to take on Photoshop and create filters and stickers for UrbanAMA though!

    Case in point: Sometimes, girls do gravitate more towards creative rather than logic problems, either naturally or due to the environment around them.

    … our obsession with diversity and attempts to solve it are only fucking it up for the actual women in tech out there!

    What do I mean by this?

    We get upset about the state of gender diversity in tech

    We make a pact to hire more women

    The pool has (a lot) more men than women

    After some rounds of low to no success, we start to compromise and hire women just because we have to

    These women show up at work and perform not as great as we want them to

    It reinforces to the male population that was already peeved by the diversity push that women aren’t that good at tech after all …

    • Replies: @Dissident799
    @Anon

    Wow. This lady openly recognizes that women aren't naturally inclined to things like coding. She also points out that women cause interpersonal issues in the workplace. But lastly,


    You could say they are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics (with a mom that scored an 800 in GRE analytics and a dad that scored an 800 in GRE quants, anything else would be unexplainable).
     
    she openly points out her belief that intelligence is genetic and heritable.

    She's one good mugging away from being an avowed race realist.
    , @Argus Bacchus
    @Anon

    Her foul language is additional proof of her being a fully Westernized you-go-girl feminist useful idiot.

    Not that it wasn't already clear, of course.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    , @Paperback Writer
    @Anon

    Thanks for the link - this woman gets it!


    You should know that we are an early stage startup that cannot afford market salaries. Despite that, we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.
     
    The part that I bolded is the heart of the matter. Except for a vanishingly tiny and aberrant minority (Mrs. T., Martha Stewart, Oprah) even exceptionally bright women lack single-minded intensity. Perhaps that's a good thing. Maybe women are more balanced than men. But if you want to pioneer something, create something, they aren't suitable.

    "Drain the energy" painful but accurate. I've been in many situations where women did this as a matter of course. You cannot afford this in a start-up.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  129. @SafeNow
    Apart from the technical-competence issue, there is the chip-on-shoulder issue. About 10 years ago,while boarding a major national airline, I could see through the open cockpit door that the captain was black. My heart swelled with SJWarriorness, an unusual feeling for me. Well, when he came on the intercom, he announced that he was setting one of the passenger listening channels to monitor air traffic control, “for those of you who don’t have a life.” Other insulting humor emanated later.
    He might have been a competent pilot in the technical sense. But there are some people in life you expect to be serious, such as your surgeon, your dog’s vet, and your airline pilot. Many people are afraid of flying to begin with, and I suspect that having an unserious captain with an attitude problem undermined confidence and calmness.

    I don’t know to what degree this anecdote of an attitude problem can be extrapolated to relationships with colleagues at tech companies, the military, universities, or other businesses or institutions. I suspect that the job applicant is able to suspend the chip on the shoulder during the interview, but then, once hired, it returns, and of course then he cannot be fired.

    Replies: @bomag, @eee, @Bill Jones

    In the before times – mid 70’s I guess, I was on a genuine African airline plane in a genuine African country (Gambia?Senegal? I’ve passed a lot of Single Malt under the bridge since then), when the Captain, last one to board after all the passengers were seated, boarded at the rear and strolled down the aisle looking like a deranged satirists vision of Idi Amin. The sheer weight of the gold braid was impressive.

    I was collecting my shit prior to deplaning when my experienced seatmate told me not to worry, the white guy who would do the actual flying was the first one on the plane an hour earlier.

    It was amusing then. Now that it’s reality here I don’t find it that funny.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Bill Jones

    Haha, Bill, as I was reading that I was waiting to see your ending, thinking about a friend's similar story about riding on an airliner in Africa (I've never been). His ending was the same as yours. This was back when you could go into the cockpit and say hey (even in the US), so he went up there and a white guy was flying, and the black guy could just sit there and look impressive. I think KLM sent the white guys down there to avoid any damage to the brand.

  130. Anon[925] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    @Anon

    Dunning-Kruger is a moronic rebranding of sophomorism. It is the false confidence larval academics have from a little knowledge, which they regret once they achieve mastery. This is what Dunning's and Kruger's actual research followed. It has since been relied upon by the lyingpress to sell the Emperor's New Clothes, since the people who claim the Emperor is naked rarely have a tailoring license, and therefore must be wrong and stupid. This example is actually far worse than a sophomoric computer sciences student misjudging his colleagues. April isn't at the level of a sophomoric student in the field. She doesn't soffer from a little over-relied-upon computer knowledge, rather she doesn't have any.

    Replies: @sayless, @Anon

    The replication crisis has unfortunately hit Dunning-Kruger.

    The Dunning-Kruger Effect May Be a Statistical Illusion
    Research finds the effect is statistically due to other psychological factors.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experimentations/202004/the-dunning-kruger-effect-may-be-statistical-illusion

    The Dunning-Kruger Effect Is Probably Not Real
    The darling of those who wish to explain why incompetent people don’t know they’re unskilled, the Dunning-Kruger effect may actually just be a data artefact.

    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking/dunning-kruger-effect-probably-not-real

    In 2016 and 2017, two papers were published in a mathematics journal called Numeracy. In them, the authors argued that the Dunning-Kruger effect was a mirage. And I tend to agree.

    The two papers, by Dr. Ed Nuhfer and colleagues, argued that the Dunning-Kruger effect could be replicated by using random data. “We all then believed the [1999] paper was valid,” Dr. Nuhfer told me via email. “The reasoning and argument just made so much sense. We never set out to disprove it; we were even fans of that paper.”

    In Dr. Nuhfer’s own papers, which used both computer-generated data and results from actual people undergoing a science literacy test, his team disproved the claim that most people that are unskilled are unaware of it (“a small number are: we saw about 5-6% that fit that in our data”) and instead showed that both experts and novices underestimate and overestimate their skills with the same frequency. “It’s just that experts do that over a narrower range,” he wrote to me.

  131. The irony is that had the big push never been made, many or most of the Asians and whites in Silicon Valley would retain their impeccably politically correct views to this day. If you aren’t confronted with the truth, and you just never think about it, you’ll keep assuming that dude who raised you really was your dad, etc. Blacks are just as smart as whites. Of course they are. Now, where were we?

    But having had these bozos on their hands, having tried to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, having seen just how goddamned dumb so many of them are, we can assume a significant percentage of individuals who would otherwise be good-thinkers to this day are now at least nascent thought criminals.

    • Replies: @Moses
    @Colin Wright

    Do not underestimate the power “Crimestop” and “protective stupidity” have to prevent the minds of woke Whites from seeing obvious truths supported by overwhelming evidence.


    Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.

    George Orwell, 1984
     

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  132. @JMcG
    @Jack D

    It’s a really disturbing story. The guy kept leaving; getting asked to leave, flying jobs and kept getting hired into better and better jobs. The NTSB report is a masterpiece of evasion, but the guy accidentally hit a switch that sets full power and climb attitude.
    All well and good, easy to recover from, but he got it into his head that he was in an aerodynamic stall and responded as if he were in a Cessna 150. He panicked and pointed the nose at the ground. Apparently the other pilot wasn’t strong enough to overcome his control input and they all died together.
    The CVR actually has one pilot saying”Pull up!” while another says “Lord have mercy! And Oh God, Lord you have my soul”. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out who said what.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    It’s infuriating. This link

    https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/legacy-of-a-lie-the-crash-of-atlas-air-flight-3591-519a3a7bd6ec

    is a great read that goes into every detail. Every detail but one. What would that be?

    The sequence of events in the cockpit defied comprehension. How could a trained pilot make such a fundamental error? It was in their attempts to answer this question that investigators found the real cause of the accident. Beneath the surface of the first officer’s training record, they found a long history of failed examinations, terrible airmanship, and difficulties performing basic procedures. One instructor said that he was one of the worst pilots he had ever trained. And after all of this, he was hired anyway — due to inadequate hiring practices, a deliberate act of deception, and an FAA program that wasn’t implemented in time to stop it.

    Much of this is technical and beyond me but it appears that Captain Blakely realized immediately what the problem was and tried to correct the situation but Aska was too stupid to understand what was going on and literally “fought” him (with the instruments).

    Aska was incapable of efficient responses:

    According to three instructors at that airline, Aska had no trouble with rote tasks; however, they confirmed that when faced with an unexpected event, he would start pressing random buttons in order to feel like he was doing something.

    As I said, every detail. But one.

    Aska had gotten the position at Atlas Air because he lied about his past.

    And maybe no one wanted to look too deeply.

    Atlas’s director of human resources admitted to investigators that “it’s hard to catch someone who’s deliberately trying to deceive you.”

    Isn’t that was “Human Resources is supposed to do? Along with implementing Critical Race Theory.

    I find it grimly ironic that the plane was descending into George Bush Int’l Airport – ironic in that Poppa Bush was the very model of the genteel cuck Republican.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Paperback Writer

    I looked up the VP of HR for Atlas. She came to Atlas from the world of women’s fashion. The CEO is a lawyer. I must admit, I never really believed we’d get people affirmative-actioned into airline cockpits, but here we are.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Muggles

    , @International Jew
    @Paperback Writer


    Aska had no trouble with rote tasks; however, they confirmed that when faced with an unexpected event, he would start pressing random buttons in order to feel like he was doing something.
     
    Sounds like me on Microsoft Flight Simulator!
  133. @Luzzatto
    @AnotherDad

    Hispanic academic performance in K-12 public schools is a lot closer to that of African American students than it is to White students. So I don’t know why you would claim there are plenty of Hispanics who are intelligent enough to fill a technical role at Microsoft and Twitter, if that were true there would be no need for affirmative action for Hispanics in academia.

    Not a lot of Hispanic engineers and Hispanic STEM geniuses coming out of the barrios where they shot the intro for Chico And The Man!
    https://youtu.be/5HWFVfpWNHM

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Hispanic academic performance in K-12 public schools is a lot closer to that of African American students than it is to White students.’

    Having taught all three groups, I feel confident in asserting that whatever the statistics, Hispanics are perfectly intelligent but blacks, as a rule, aren’t.

    …part of the problem with Hispanics is that in most Hispanic families, any grade seems to be fine, as long as you pass. The result is that yes, you can extract excellent performances from Hispanic students.

    You just have to grade like Genghis Khan on a bad day.

    • Replies: @Luzzatto
    @Colin Wright

    Facts do not care about your muh feelings!
    http://laschoolreport.com/latino-students-lag-far-behind-whites-in-every-county-in-california-new-study-shows/

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  134. Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.

    They will certainly appear brilliant to someone with no technical qualifications. Imagine her asking a student what problem he is working on, and how he is going about solving it. She would not be able to understand the answer, let alone assess it.

  135. @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, they are probably BRILLIANT compared to April.
     
    That's likely true, but it's also that she is not bright enough to even ascertain whether these Howard grads are actually brilliant or not. She knows nothing of the field that she was supposed to be hiring people into. Does that sound like any HR ladies any of you have run into?

    Back when I was doing some software work: "Do you have Visual Basic?" "What do you mean, do I HAVE Visual Basic? It's not like an actual physical tool I have in my desk at home. I have a CD, if that's what you mean, you dumb broad." I didn't get hired, but that's not because I answered her out loud, it was probably for other reasons.

    Oh, and Google and all the rest of them should stop freakin' calling these people engineers. Almost NONE of them are engineers. They are software developers or programmers.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @anon, @Forbes, @Pericles, @Jack Armstrong

    Why didn’t G**gle hire the guy who tried to piggyback into that apartment building and then made the guy’s kid cry and videoed it all? Wasn’t he a “software engineer”? He seemed nine.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack Armstrong

    I don't know this story, Mr. Armstrong. Was it one of iSteve's recent posts?

  136. @Paperback Writer
    @Almost Missouri

    Am I the only one who detected a whiff of lavender coming from Jobs?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Is having one (1) outfit the most straight guy thing ever?

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @J.Ross

    He didn't have just one outfit. He had numerous identical outfits, all the same, and no, it's not. The fashion world is full of people like him.

  137. @Anonymous
    @Luzzatto

    No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.

    Altucher got his B.S. in CS from Cornell and his M.S. in CS from Carnegie Mellon and when he started his first programming job he was the only one with a computer science degree and the only one not able to program.


    https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/10-things-i-didnt-learn-in-college/

    10 THINGS I DIDN'T LEARN IN COLLEGE

    ... I spent $100,000 of my own money (via debt, which I paid back in full) majoring in Computer Science.

    I then went to graduate school in computer science.

    I then remained in an academic environment for several years doing various computer programming jobs.

    Finally I hit the real world. I got a job in corporate America. Everyone congratulated me where I worked, “you’re going to the real world,” they said. I was never so happy.

    I called my friends in NYC, “money is falling from trees here,” they said. I looked for apartments in Hoboken. I looked at my girlfriend with a new feeling of gratefulness – we were going to break up once I moved. I knew it.

    In other words, like was going to be great. My mom even told me, “you’re going to shine at your new job.”
    Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment – I couldn’t program.

    I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess.

    I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. I heard my boss whisper to his boss’s boss, ‘I don’t know what we’re going to do with him, he has no skills.’

    And what’s worse is that I was in a cluster of cubicles so everyone around me could here that whisper also.

    So they sent me to two months of remedial programming courses at AT&T in New Jersey...

     

    Replies: @Mark Roulo, @mmack, @John Pepple, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    “No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.”

    Things have changed.

    James graduated with his bachelor’s degree in 1989, the same year I graduated WITHOUT a computer science degree. I spent an afternoon with a family friend’s son that summer and HE had graduated with a CS degree. He mentioned that he was looking forward to his employer training him to code.

    This was interesting to me, because I was planning on working as a programmer (and did … still do!) and thought I was supposed to bring that skill to the table.

    Nope. Not in 1989 it seems.

    Today, CS graduates who can’t program tend to get weeded out in the job interview. Their professor (and the CS students) know this and so at least *some* of the CS curriculum is trying to teach the kids to program at least a little bit competently as a code monkey. The *real* skill must be learned on the job, but folks do graduate knowing how to write code. What they need to learn on the job tends to be more along the lines of understanding an existing (large, badly written) codebase.

    • Replies: @mikeInThe716
    @Mark Roulo

    Many smart people, like John Derbyshire and David Gelernter, have commented on the deficiencies of today's CS programs and students. Given grade inflation, finding true programming talent is difficult outside of the likes of MIT or Stanford. Bottom line, an associates in CS from a good school is probably enough to start working. And if you like coding and want to grind out a skill set in you spare time, it's getting easier all the time.

    Once working, the overwhelming quantity of systems, languages, APIs, IDEs, and OSs can be a Masters Degree in Chaos - that a CS degree barely scratches the surface. After getting hired, you can get pigeon-holed into a very narrow field of expertise. So if you find yourself at a bank translating old COBOL code to PHP and C# and hate it, find another job before you get 7 years in and cannot find anything else - without taking a huge pay cut.

  138. @theMann
    @MIC

    "Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions."


    Oh, is that what Microsoft is doing? Leaving aside, for the moment, that Microsoft has yet to hire a single human being who could write a coherent English sentence, I have to say AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS IN IT, that Microsoft primarily hires people on their ability to obfuscate, prevaricate, and generally avoid ever solving a problem.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Last night I was reading through some old Microsoft documents used as evidence in the antitrust case. I was amused to discover that, in the early ’90s, Bill Gates’ level of English-language proficiency was only slightly above that of Tiny Duck:

    He’s basically saying, “OS/2 is being lauded in the press, and Windows is being trashed; why aren’t our PR people responding effectively?” It takes him four paragraphs to say what might be said in one or two sentences.

    No wonder Microsoft products are so full of spaghetti code.

  139. @MIC
    Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions. At the end of each interview the interviewer sends out a yay/nay email to everyone on the interview loop, with a phone call to the next interviewer who won't have time to read your email. If you get two or three nays in a row you'll be sent packing, never getting to the hiring manager. A successful candidate usually goes through a 5 to 6 hour interview day. Few pretenders can get through their doors.

    But these companies have become so damn woke, I see them eventually coming up with alternative interviews with softball questions for their affirmative action hires, or just create lots of useless, non-technical positions for them but with fancy sounding names, like "Program Manager", which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs. It's no different than colleges coming with STEM sounding majors that aren't really technical, like "Human Biology" for those who can't hack real biology, or "Computers and Society" for those who can't hack real CS, just so they could graduate more minority "STEM" majors.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Elmer T. Jones, @theMann, @joe_mama, @Sebastian Hawks

    Right on with PMs these days. Most are essentially glorified administrative assistants/secretaries. We don’t call them that of course.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @joe_mama


    Right on with PMs these days. Most are essentially glorified administrative assistants/secretaries. We don’t call them that of course.
     
    I'd throw Project Managers and Project Engineers in the same boat.

    The bulk of the work is simply tracking and updating schedules and budgets.
  140. @JohnnyWalker123
    It's amazing that with all this screaming about diversity in Silicon Valley, no one ever talks about the mass flooding of H1bs into the software industry. Truly remarkable.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Cato

    It’s amazing that with all this screaming about diversity in Silicon Valley, no one ever talks about the mass flooding of H1bs into the software industry. Truly remarkable.

    Not amazing. Not remarkable. Screaming about diversity and mass flooding of H1bs are just two fronts in the war against whites.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Cato

    Perceptive point.

  141. @Jack D
    Right, April Christina Curley, secondary school teacher, knows that these kids are brilliant but the Google engineers think that they are no damn good at writing code. What do Google software engineers know about programming? Buncha racists.

    The hilarious thing is that April Christina Curley is so clueless and self centered that she expects the public to accept her judgment over that of the Google programmers. The sad thing is that in 2021 she is probably right.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Jus' Sayin'..., @joe_mama

    The irony is that the Google hiring process is designed to be incredibly objective on evaluating a prospective candidate. They’re tough, as Google focuses primarily on academic algorithmic questions which favors recent college grads than industry veterans who’ve been out of school for a while.

    Once at the the onsite, you’re interviewed by the panel. Each one gives their feedback and assigns a score to the candidate.

    That feedback is taken and evaluated by a different panel/committee on whether to hire/not hire.

    And once a candidate is hired, yet another panel comes up with their offer/compensation package.

    Not talked about, but many have speculated that the process was designed to weed out nepotism that is quite prevalent in the valley.

  142. @El Dato
    @Anonymous

    2007-02-27

    "Shameful Honey" sounds like a good name for a dating site.

    https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/


    Maybe it's foolish to begin interviewing a programmer without looking at their code first. At Vertigo, we require a code sample before we even proceed to the phone interview stage. And our on-site interview includes a small coding exercise. Nothing difficult, mind you, just a basic exercise to go through the motions of building a small application in an hour or so. Although there have been one or two notable flame-outs, for the most part, this strategy has worked well for us. It lets us focus on actual software engineering in the interview without resorting to tedious puzzle questions.
     
    Reminds me of the time my interview led me to having to pass a online multiple-answer quiz about Enterprise Java Beans with a strong caution to Not use Google or Forfeit the Test Immediately resulting in:

    - Indian accents on the audio.
    - Stupid question about irrelevant details that you don't know if you haven't come out of EJB class half an hour ago.
    - Obsolete questions from 5 years ago.
    - No general understanding required.
    - Me using Google in anger.

    EJB is the rear sphincter of "Big & Serious Enterprise Programming" in any case. Endless consulting fees solving the same problem fucked up by previous consultants over and over again are to be had.

    I wish I was dead inside enough so that I could go for that kind of money.

    Replies: @propagandist hacker

    I wish I was dead inside enough so that I could go for that kind of money.

    Give it time…

  143. @Paperback Writer
    The CEOs of Microsoft, Adobe, and Google are all TamBrams.

    Not that there's anything wrong widdat, but how does that fit in with (((oh, never mind))).

    Replies: @epebble

    Microsoft’s Nadella was born in Hyderabad of present-day Telangana, India into a Telugu-speaking Hindu family.

    Adobe’s Narayen grew up in Hyderabad, India, in a Telugu-speaking family.

  144. @Anon
    I, for one, think Google ought to hire all the black programmers it wants. Under such a massive load of dimwits, Google will stumble, start being stupid, and start falling apart. The dummies will achieve what all the trust-busting legislation couldn't. They will destroy Google as a competent company and make everyone else turn elsewhere for alternatives. Once Laquisha is hired, she's start trying to get all the smart white guys fired. She'll chase away all the talent with her malignant jealousy.

    Napoleon: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

    Replies: @Sick 'n Tired

    The thing with companies like Google is that pretty much all the infrastructure and algorithms are already built, in place, and are up & running. They no longer need the skills initially required that they did when the company was getting started. Most of it is just maintenance of current servers and developing new branches like A.I and apps. All the heavy lifting development wise has already been done.

    • Agree: joe_mama
  145. …Robert Covington is the only basketball player from any HBCU in the NBA…

    There was a time when a fair number of NFL players were from HBCUs – I think the ’60s and maybe the ’70s.

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @Hibernian

    Jerry Rice went to Mississippi Valley State.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Hibernian

    The AFL was especially progressive about drafting from HBCU's, more out of necessity than altruism. Nevertheless, it worked.

  146. @Anonymous
    @Luzzatto

    No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.

    Altucher got his B.S. in CS from Cornell and his M.S. in CS from Carnegie Mellon and when he started his first programming job he was the only one with a computer science degree and the only one not able to program.


    https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/10-things-i-didnt-learn-in-college/

    10 THINGS I DIDN'T LEARN IN COLLEGE

    ... I spent $100,000 of my own money (via debt, which I paid back in full) majoring in Computer Science.

    I then went to graduate school in computer science.

    I then remained in an academic environment for several years doing various computer programming jobs.

    Finally I hit the real world. I got a job in corporate America. Everyone congratulated me where I worked, “you’re going to the real world,” they said. I was never so happy.

    I called my friends in NYC, “money is falling from trees here,” they said. I looked for apartments in Hoboken. I looked at my girlfriend with a new feeling of gratefulness – we were going to break up once I moved. I knew it.

    In other words, like was going to be great. My mom even told me, “you’re going to shine at your new job.”
    Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment – I couldn’t program.

    I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess.

    I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. I heard my boss whisper to his boss’s boss, ‘I don’t know what we’re going to do with him, he has no skills.’

    And what’s worse is that I was in a cluster of cubicles so everyone around me could here that whisper also.

    So they sent me to two months of remedial programming courses at AT&T in New Jersey...

     

    Replies: @Mark Roulo, @mmack, @John Pepple, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    “No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.”

    I’m going to shoot Mr. Altucher’s theory down in flames. With my own experience.

    I went to college in the Reagan – Daddy Bush days. I majored in Computer Science and went in cold on coding experience. I had one programming class in BASIC in high school.

    My major was designated “Applied Data Processing”. It focused on skills a programmer would need in the corporate IT world. It taught COBOL, CICS, JCL, database processing, some C, design and analysis, and preliminary project management. And it allowed credit for an internship in IT. My internship was very easy as I utilized skills I’d learned in my coursework. And on graduation I was hired on at a retailer and walked into a job that utilized the skills I learned.

    I read Mr. Altucher’s post. He may very well be a successful person who has started and sold businesses, but he comes across as a bit of a whiner in your linked post.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @mmack

    Altucher is clearly exaggerating for effect. "I couldn't even turn on a computer". He is trying to make a point, which is that academic experience is not 100% the same as real world experience, but he thinks we are stupid and won't get it, so he goes over the top in portraying his lack of preparation.

    I suppose the degree to which an academic background in computer science prepares you for a real world programming job depends on where and what you studied and how relevant that curriculum is to the demands of that particular job. You were at one end of the spectrum and perhaps Altucher (even allowing for exaggeration) was at the other.

    Replies: @Moses

  147. @Luzzatto
    @Wilkey

    There is a higher percentage of Whites in The NBA than there are Blacks in Silicon Valley tech companies. That must really piss the Black man off!

    Replies: @Hibernian

    There is a higher percentage of Whites in The NBA than there are Blacks in Silicon Valley tech companies.

    Yes, and those whites are almost all from Europe.

  148. @Michael S
    At first I was surprised that she actually posted the interview feedback and other study results, which show very clearly that they were evaluated entirely on the same coding criteria as any other candidate, but with a lot of funding and special help to try to boost their scores. In other words, they were given all the preferential treatment that Google is legally allowed to give them and still couldn't get in because they literally can't code.

    When the women and trannies complain that women and trannies don't have it easy enough, they dish out nebulous examples of microaggressions and other petty work complaints that are subjective enough so that you can interpret them as some sort of unconscious discrimination if you squint hard enough. And of course they complain about total representation. But they never tell you why, because that would be giving up the game.

    This woman is just blurting it all out, telling us straight up that Google did everything possible for these candidates but they just plain sucked.

    Anyway, at first I was surprised, but then I realized, as the collective IQ of these hustlers continues to plummet, we are probably going to see more and more of these admissions.

    Replies: @Moses, @The Last Real Calvinist

    This woman is just blurting it all out, telling us straight up that Google did everything possible for these candidates but they just plain sucked.

    It’s almost as if Blacks have little natural talent for high level abstract thinking.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_SGV
    @Moses

    "It's as if blax lack abstract thinking"...but our commissars won't accept this observable reality, so they will declare Abstract Thinking to be racist or eurocentric, or something.

  149. @Anon
    Which is she? Full Dolezso, or a quarter black? Hard to tell.

    Replies: @Neoconned

    Normally even lite skinned black women like Wanda Sykes can “pass” easily “for black”…..

    She looks vaguely P. Rican or maybe….Greek even?

  150. @Moses
    @Michael S


    This woman is just blurting it all out, telling us straight up that Google did everything possible for these candidates but they just plain sucked.
     
    It’s almost as if Blacks have little natural talent for high level abstract thinking.

    Replies: @Mike_from_SGV

    “It’s as if blax lack abstract thinking”…but our commissars won’t accept this observable reality, so they will declare Abstract Thinking to be racist or eurocentric, or something.

  151. @George Taylor
    I've posted this before, I was a trainer for a major financial firm in and around 2010. Entry level FINRA series 7 exam. Our recruiting department spent most of there proactive dollars representing the firm at minority job fairs, on campus recruitment same, targeting black student groups etc. If black college grad or about to graduate it was virtually an automatic job offer even if the interview was bad. Even then, they still couldn't the numbers they wanted. Then it was the training departments turn, get them to pass the series 7. We used baby step approach, plenty of one on one tutoring. We had a significantly higher fail rate with our black candidates then White test takers. I don't ever remember a Asian candidate failing the exam. We gave almost everyone a second chance if they failed, but if white and a second fail it was maybe you should try something else. However minority candidates if they hadn't took themselves out of the process at this point would get a third chance, usually to no avail.

    Replies: @Moses

    My cousin works in trading at a big Wall Street bank. He’s running the summer internship program.

    He told me his bosses told him “no White hires this year” and also to prefer women.

    He also said “I interviewed everyone. All the non-White candidates sucked.”

    I told him it’s just a matter of time before some non-White or woman decides they want his job and fabricate some BS charge about him making them feel “uncomfortable” or some bullshit.

    Dunno why he’s still there. Corporate America is a hostile environment these days for a bright young White man.

    • Replies: @Moses
    @Moses

    I got my VFR private pilot’s license years ago.

    One of the first things you learn in flying lessons is not to trust your senses regarding orientation of the aircraft.

    My instructor had me close my eyes as he put the Cessna thru some maneuvers to show me that my senses lie.

    “What is the plane doing now?” he asked.

    “Straight and level” I replied.

    “Open your eyes” he said.

    I opened, looked to the right and saw all ground. We were in a steep right turn, banking about 45 degrees.

    Never forgot that. Even in VFR it was drilled into me to trust instruments, not sensations.

    Replies: @mmack, @Jim Don Bob, @ScarletNumber

  152. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    So the Washington Post isn’t going to write about it either.

  153. @Colin Wright
    @Luzzatto

    'Hispanic academic performance in K-12 public schools is a lot closer to that of African American students than it is to White students.'

    Having taught all three groups, I feel confident in asserting that whatever the statistics, Hispanics are perfectly intelligent but blacks, as a rule, aren't.

    ...part of the problem with Hispanics is that in most Hispanic families, any grade seems to be fine, as long as you pass. The result is that yes, you can extract excellent performances from Hispanic students.

    You just have to grade like Genghis Khan on a bad day.

    Replies: @Luzzatto

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Luzzatto

    'Facts do not care about your muh feelings!
    http://laschoolreport.com/latino-students-lag-far-behind-whites-in-every-county-in-california-new-study-shows/ '

    Sigh. Oh all right. Score one for your team.

  154. @Luzzatto
    A Black woman named Charlotte Newman is suing Jeff Bezos because she experienced systemic racism when she worked for him.

    What a pickle The Woke Washington Post is in. Do they side with their White Supremacist boss Jeff Bezos who signs their paychecks or do they side with Black Girl Magic? And can The Woke Washington Post be Cancel Cultured if they side with Jeff Bezos over a strong powerful Black Chocolate Ebony Queen?

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘A Black woman named Charlotte Newman is suing Jeff Bezos because she experienced systemic racism when she worked for him.

    ‘What a pickle The Woke Washington Post is in…’

    I don’t see much of a pickle. When you’re as rich as Jeff Bezos, it’s worth a few million to pay the mulatto off and keep your political correctness credentials. The only real problem is that the precedent will encourage others — but you can always put your foot down if the problem gets out of hand.

  155. I have a related personal experience. During my college days, I represented a large state university in Quiz Bowl competitions (basically trivia with an academic bent) against other colleges and universities. So-called Historically Black Colleges competed in something similar, but at a much lower level and against one another—only their bush-league competitions were lavishly funded by the Honda corporation and televised. Perhaps having been made overconfident by such flattering treatment, one of the several black colleges in Atlanta decided to test their mettle against Whitey (which in this instance also included many Asians). The results were even more embarrassing than I had expected from watching those televised competitions. They got blown out in every single match, the equivalent of losing a football game by 100-0. I vividly remember answering a question whose answer was Warren Harding, whereupon one of my melanin-enhanced counterparts loudly exclaimed, “I ain’t even heard of that guy! He supposed to be some kind of president?” I did not major in computer science, but I later became a self-taught coder and I am made as aghast by the description of the Howard comp-sci standout in the article above as I was by my experience playing trivia against an HBC.

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    @Ray Caruso

    Your Quiz Bowl competition vs. the noble Ubangis will no doubt be immortalized by (((Hollywood))) studios and Spike Lee in 20 years--made into a movie with a few minor tweaks.---you lynched the head negro debater's cat the night before the show, the negro talking about Warren Harding will turn out to have a backstory in which his great grandpa was given the death penalty for having overdue calculus books, and boldly smiling at the White female librarian when she waived the fine. Harding, who was President at the time, failed to commute the death sentence, so the math genius negro was electrocuted, and the present day debating negro is triggered by his thoughts of Harding's "racism" and his own Kentucky Fried ancestor.

    Oh, and they beat you, 100-0.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Ray Caruso


    I represented a large state university in Quiz Bowl competitions
     
    Our esteemed author represented Rice in the College Bowl.
    , @Muggles
    @Ray Caruso

    You can get a taste of your Quiz Bowl experience on a daily basis.

    The wife loves to watch Jeopardy! (now, deplorably Woke) and look at the contestants.

    They have hundreds of thousands take the online qualifying quiz, and I assume after sorting some of the better ones get in person interviews.

    Most contestants are white males (White!). Though females have been in the mix and now I suspect a quota. Some seem dumber than the dumb white guys, hard to know for certain.

    There are also plenty of Asians, a few hapas, some Hispanics (hard to tell other than names/appearance) and a somewhat outsized portion of Jews (again, names or appearance). Also more than "normal" share of subcons. Some of those admit to being spelling bee champs.

    There are some blacks of course. Most wash out like 2/3s of the players each time. Not many daily black winners or continuing winners. However the few black winners they have seem to be very sharp, multiple winners, quick and smart. They have been male. Always, though there may be exceptions.

    So do your own research, even though I"m sure the selection process is as Woke as they can make it. I suspect a time series of racial characteristics would point to more "diversity" now but not among winners.

    It is fun to note that as Woke questions are being added, almost none of these very smart people ever get those correct (obscure black Academy Award winners, obscure female "notables", etc.)

    The wife also loves Family Feud (I watch sometimes too) where correct answers are based on supposed surveys. Diversity wise, it is the opposite of Jeopardy!. Still pretty entertaining, though I suspect Steve Harvey fans might be scarce among iSteve commentators.

  156. @Colin Wright
    The irony is that had the big push never been made, many or most of the Asians and whites in Silicon Valley would retain their impeccably politically correct views to this day. If you aren't confronted with the truth, and you just never think about it, you'll keep assuming that dude who raised you really was your dad, etc. Blacks are just as smart as whites. Of course they are. Now, where were we?

    But having had these bozos on their hands, having tried to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, having seen just how goddamned dumb so many of them are, we can assume a significant percentage of individuals who would otherwise be good-thinkers to this day are now at least nascent thought criminals.

    Replies: @Moses

    Do not underestimate the power “Crimestop” and “protective stupidity” have to prevent the minds of woke Whites from seeing obvious truths supported by overwhelming evidence.

    Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.

    George Orwell, 1984

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Moses

    'Do not underestimate the power “Crimestop” and “protective stupidity” have to prevent the minds of woke Whites from seeing obvious truths supported by overwhelming evidence.'

    That's true enough. I've experienced it in the first person.

    I grew up around blacks -- in Northern California, before the great Hispanic wave.

    So although I'd had little contact with Hispanics, I was familiar with blacks...to say the least. But I never articulated any consciously racist thoughts, even though looking back I can certainly see I experienced plenty of objectively valid reasons to.

    It wasn't until I moved down to LA that the scales fell from my eyes. Here were Hispanics -- on whose behalf just about all the excuses that could be offered for blacks could be offered as well.

    Yet Hispanics were on the whole perfectly decent human beings. Not saints, that's for sure -- but you could live and work with them. They were alright.

    At that point, I began to look at black behavior with a clear eye.

  157. @JMcG
    @AceDeuce

    That Marine F18 pilot that killed himself and an entire aerial tanker crew a little while ago over the western Pacific? Guess what?

    Replies: @AceDeuce, @Jim Don Bob

    Thanks. Wow–I didn’t know about that.

    “Jahmar” was his first name. Bottom of his flight class.

    It’s only going to get worse.

  158. Isn’t Ahmed “Clock Boy” Mohamed now working for the G**gle? He’s an inventor.

  159. @Paperback Writer
    @JMcG

    It's infuriating. This link

    https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/legacy-of-a-lie-the-crash-of-atlas-air-flight-3591-519a3a7bd6ec

    is a great read that goes into every detail. Every detail but one. What would that be?


    The sequence of events in the cockpit defied comprehension. How could a trained pilot make such a fundamental error? It was in their attempts to answer this question that investigators found the real cause of the accident. Beneath the surface of the first officer’s training record, they found a long history of failed examinations, terrible airmanship, and difficulties performing basic procedures. One instructor said that he was one of the worst pilots he had ever trained. And after all of this, he was hired anyway — due to inadequate hiring practices, a deliberate act of deception, and an FAA program that wasn’t implemented in time to stop it.
     
    Much of this is technical and beyond me but it appears that Captain Blakely realized immediately what the problem was and tried to correct the situation but Aska was too stupid to understand what was going on and literally "fought" him (with the instruments).

    Aska was incapable of efficient responses:


    According to three instructors at that airline, Aska had no trouble with rote tasks; however, they confirmed that when faced with an unexpected event, he would start pressing random buttons in order to feel like he was doing something.

     

    As I said, every detail. But one.

    Aska had gotten the position at Atlas Air because he lied about his past.

     

    And maybe no one wanted to look too deeply.

    Atlas’s director of human resources admitted to investigators that “it’s hard to catch someone who’s deliberately trying to deceive you.”
     
    Isn't that was "Human Resources is supposed to do? Along with implementing Critical Race Theory.

    I find it grimly ironic that the plane was descending into George Bush Int'l Airport - ironic in that Poppa Bush was the very model of the genteel cuck Republican.

    Replies: @JMcG, @International Jew

    I looked up the VP of HR for Atlas. She came to Atlas from the world of women’s fashion. The CEO is a lawyer. I must admit, I never really believed we’d get people affirmative-actioned into airline cockpits, but here we are.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @JMcG

    Thanks. This story gets worse and worse. Kate Spade, geezus.

    In a way I'm happy that Aska's family is suing. Unless Atlas settles, they might be forced to tell the truth. Sure, Aska lied, but they didn't force the issue. Because....?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Muggles
    @JMcG


    I never really believed we’d get people affirmative-actioned into airline cockpits, but here we are.
     
    Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (circa 1957) is the most accurate 'science fiction' account of our now 70 year future reality. Sadly.

    Among other things, she described airliners literally falling out of the skies due to collectivist brainwashing manufacturing standards, pilot training, etc.

    I occasionally see a "Who is John Galt" bumpersticker on cars in my neighborhood. Always brightens my day.
  160. @Moses
    @George Taylor

    My cousin works in trading at a big Wall Street bank. He’s running the summer internship program.

    He told me his bosses told him “no White hires this year” and also to prefer women.

    He also said “I interviewed everyone. All the non-White candidates sucked.”

    I told him it’s just a matter of time before some non-White or woman decides they want his job and fabricate some BS charge about him making them feel “uncomfortable” or some bullshit.

    Dunno why he’s still there. Corporate America is a hostile environment these days for a bright young White man.

    Replies: @Moses

    I got my VFR private pilot’s license years ago.

    One of the first things you learn in flying lessons is not to trust your senses regarding orientation of the aircraft.

    My instructor had me close my eyes as he put the Cessna thru some maneuvers to show me that my senses lie.

    “What is the plane doing now?” he asked.

    “Straight and level” I replied.

    “Open your eyes” he said.

    I opened, looked to the right and saw all ground. We were in a steep right turn, banking about 45 degrees.

    Never forgot that. Even in VFR it was drilled into me to trust instruments, not sensations.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @mmack
    @Moses

    Agreed. As my flight instructor told me: “When in doubt, use the instruments. They’re put in the airplane for a reason. And they’re more accurate than you are.”

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Moses

    I worked with a Navy helo guy who flew SAR off carriers. He told me that on a dark moonless night out over the ocean, you'd damn well better trust your instruments or you'll be upside down and in the drink real soon. Your brain plays tricks on you as it tries to find a horizon. See also JFK Jr.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Moses


    Even in VFR it was drilled into me to trust instruments, not sensations.
     
    That's impossible! They're [flying] on instruments.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUOB-BkSMa8
  161. Anonymous[100] • Disclaimer says:

    He told me his bosses told him “no White hires this year” and also to prefer women.

    A friend works for the major American aerospace company that starts with a ‘B’ and ends with a ‘G’ that has been in the news lately for technical issues. I’m convinced their HR ladies are doing their best to hasten the rot. The summer before CoVid hit the engineering interns in my friend’s department were a black female from Howard and a Hispanic female from Berkeley. B——-G’s HR (though not sure if this is division only or company wide) does not allow technical interviewing of candidates, at any level. They have to stick to a strict script of behavioral only questions – e.g., “Give me an example of a time you faced a conflict while working on a team. How did you handle that?” In contrast, my graduating engineer son has interviewed (for both internships and full-time positions) with over twenty companies in different industries and was technically quizzed, often heavily and for up to three rounds (the three-round series was for an internship!) in every interview. Given the minimal technical quizzing I got as a co-op student/new grad I was surprised at how rigorously he has been tested but I was a female EE so may have been given an ovarian exemption and don’t have a good reference. Mitigating the rot is the fact that a lot of defense work requires a clearance and citizenship and minority and female engineers (with the good GPAs top companies like to see) are hard to come by but it certainly seems the HR ladies are trying their best to hobble the company.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Anonymous

    The minute HR was the new name of the Payroll Department, reality started shuffling toward the door.
    I've heard one HR woman, canned after 18 months. actually say "I used to have 700 people working for me"
    When I responded that that was a pretty big HR department it came out that that was the size of the entire company.
    Quite remarkable really.

  162. If you’re a black high schooler and you have real Google-class software engineering potential, you’re not going to an HBC, you’re going to a real university on a full ride – you are the magic negro they are desperately searching for.

    HBCs are for blacks who can’t stand the daily humiliation of White and Asian scholastic superiority and just want to get credentialed to do some BS job, but are fine with being a big (or average-size) black frog in a small dark academic pond. Going to Howard to find an engineer is like going to Harlem to find, well, an engineer.

  163. @J.Ross
    @Paperback Writer

    Is having one (1) outfit the most straight guy thing ever?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    He didn’t have just one outfit. He had numerous identical outfits, all the same, and no, it’s not. The fashion world is full of people like him.

  164. @JMcG
    @Paperback Writer

    I looked up the VP of HR for Atlas. She came to Atlas from the world of women’s fashion. The CEO is a lawyer. I must admit, I never really believed we’d get people affirmative-actioned into airline cockpits, but here we are.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Muggles

    Thanks. This story gets worse and worse. Kate Spade, geezus.

    In a way I’m happy that Aska’s family is suing. Unless Atlas settles, they might be forced to tell the truth. Sure, Aska lied, but they didn’t force the issue. Because….?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    They are NEVER going to tell the truth. Their line is going to be that they were deceived, period. Frankly they would be better off losing the case than admitting the truth, which would put them out of business. You heard the Google lady - all black grads are BRILLIANT. Anyone who says otherwise is a racist. Do YOU want to be a racist?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

  165. @bjdubbs
    "In 2014, I was hired at Google to fundamentally shift the relationship (or lack thereof) that Google had with Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Before my role existed, Google had NEVER, and I mean fucking NEVER hired an HBCU student into a tech role Please read that shit again. It’s as egregious as it sounds. At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles"

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%

    Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY), @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    I didn’t catch that one! Thanks.

  166. @Jack D
    @JMcG

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pilot-flying-atlas-air-jet-that-crashed-near-houston-had-history-of-panicking-during-training/285-dbea3573-5034-4641-87e2-d502104e9dff

    Conrad sounds like the pilot equivalent of the HBCU "programmers". But the shitty cargo airline he worked for could not be as picky as Google and give him a “Strong No Move Forward". After all, it was only a job flying planes and not something as vitally important as coding an "app".

    Langewiesche is not going to write about this crash because it was a cargo jet and killed only the pilots. BTW, it was an Amazon flight.

    Replies: @bomag, @JMcG, @Almost Missouri, @El Dato, @Paperback Writer, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman

    The gist of what El Dato wrote is that this guy couldn’t really fly instruments, something most pilots should able to do a little bit of even to get the Private Pilot certificate (for the emergency situation – for them – of having flown into clouds.)

    This was Atlas Air, not Amazon, though I don’t doubt it could have been carrying Amazon freight. Atlas Air has as good pilots as any airline, in general. They could have gotten as many qualified pilots as they wanted, even in this day and age where the job market is great (minus the 1 ‘rona year). I.e, no, they didn’t need to keep this guy.

    Besides being blamed on this F/O who couldn’t really fly, himself, the crash can also be blamed on HR and a PC culture, the latter of which has invaded EVERY corporation that has, well, HR people.

    It was obviously the F/O’s leg. The Captain hadn’t been monitoring as well as he should, and when he took over, it was too late to pull the plane out of the dive. I heard more about this from a pilot at ATI (who also fly a lot of Amazon stuff). He knew the Captain.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Atlas is what’s called an ACMI airline. Same equipment, same quality pilots as the majors, but much lower cost. The pilot contracts are not as good though. They make a good deal less than equivalent pilots at the majors. Most of us have flown ACMI airlines. They often carry the same livery as the major who leases them.
    It’s too long a subject to explain in a comment, but info is easy to find for those who might be interested.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  167. @bomag
    @Jack D

    Thanks for the link.


    “I'm miffed why this pilot was allowed to continue in the cockpit,” NTSB board member... said.
     
    Welcome to the current year.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Wait until the NTSB gets diversified…

  168. @Anonymous

    He told me his bosses told him “no White hires this year” and also to prefer women.
     
    A friend works for the major American aerospace company that starts with a ‘B’ and ends with a ‘G’ that has been in the news lately for technical issues. I’m convinced their HR ladies are doing their best to hasten the rot. The summer before CoVid hit the engineering interns in my friend’s department were a black female from Howard and a Hispanic female from Berkeley. B——-G’s HR (though not sure if this is division only or company wide) does not allow technical interviewing of candidates, at any level. They have to stick to a strict script of behavioral only questions - e.g., “Give me an example of a time you faced a conflict while working on a team. How did you handle that?” In contrast, my graduating engineer son has interviewed (for both internships and full-time positions) with over twenty companies in different industries and was technically quizzed, often heavily and for up to three rounds (the three-round series was for an internship!) in every interview. Given the minimal technical quizzing I got as a co-op student/new grad I was surprised at how rigorously he has been tested but I was a female EE so may have been given an ovarian exemption and don’t have a good reference. Mitigating the rot is the fact that a lot of defense work requires a clearance and citizenship and minority and female engineers (with the good GPAs top companies like to see) are hard to come by but it certainly seems the HR ladies are trying their best to hobble the company.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    The minute HR was the new name of the Payroll Department, reality started shuffling toward the door.
    I’ve heard one HR woman, canned after 18 months. actually say “I used to have 700 people working for me”
    When I responded that that was a pretty big HR department it came out that that was the size of the entire company.
    Quite remarkable really.

    • LOL: JMcG
  169. @Paperback Writer
    @Elmer T. Jones

    Please do.

    Replies: @Elmer T. Jones

    Thanks. The first edition was released right before the Trump economy took off and nobody needed job hunting advice. At 61 I used to tactics to find work in the former industrial midwest city I am currently living in, and for the last two years have enjoyed a pretty sweet startup gig where I work alone designing laser material processing equipment. Part of my success is due to installing website blocking apps on all my computers so my only portal to posting stupid comments is on this forum using a crappy tablet. Since the turnaround time for comment approval here is about 12 hours I do not get the endorphin rush that leads to social media addiction. My productivity has skyrocketed.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  170. @Moses
    @Moses

    I got my VFR private pilot’s license years ago.

    One of the first things you learn in flying lessons is not to trust your senses regarding orientation of the aircraft.

    My instructor had me close my eyes as he put the Cessna thru some maneuvers to show me that my senses lie.

    “What is the plane doing now?” he asked.

    “Straight and level” I replied.

    “Open your eyes” he said.

    I opened, looked to the right and saw all ground. We were in a steep right turn, banking about 45 degrees.

    Never forgot that. Even in VFR it was drilled into me to trust instruments, not sensations.

    Replies: @mmack, @Jim Don Bob, @ScarletNumber

    Agreed. As my flight instructor told me: “When in doubt, use the instruments. They’re put in the airplane for a reason. And they’re more accurate than you are.”

  171. @Paperback Writer
    @JMcG

    Thanks. This story gets worse and worse. Kate Spade, geezus.

    In a way I'm happy that Aska's family is suing. Unless Atlas settles, they might be forced to tell the truth. Sure, Aska lied, but they didn't force the issue. Because....?

    Replies: @Jack D

    They are NEVER going to tell the truth. Their line is going to be that they were deceived, period. Frankly they would be better off losing the case than admitting the truth, which would put them out of business. You heard the Google lady – all black grads are BRILLIANT. Anyone who says otherwise is a racist. Do YOU want to be a racist?

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Jack D

    You're right.

    For all we know they've already settled.

  172. @Paperback Writer
    @JMcG

    It's infuriating. This link

    https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/legacy-of-a-lie-the-crash-of-atlas-air-flight-3591-519a3a7bd6ec

    is a great read that goes into every detail. Every detail but one. What would that be?


    The sequence of events in the cockpit defied comprehension. How could a trained pilot make such a fundamental error? It was in their attempts to answer this question that investigators found the real cause of the accident. Beneath the surface of the first officer’s training record, they found a long history of failed examinations, terrible airmanship, and difficulties performing basic procedures. One instructor said that he was one of the worst pilots he had ever trained. And after all of this, he was hired anyway — due to inadequate hiring practices, a deliberate act of deception, and an FAA program that wasn’t implemented in time to stop it.
     
    Much of this is technical and beyond me but it appears that Captain Blakely realized immediately what the problem was and tried to correct the situation but Aska was too stupid to understand what was going on and literally "fought" him (with the instruments).

    Aska was incapable of efficient responses:


    According to three instructors at that airline, Aska had no trouble with rote tasks; however, they confirmed that when faced with an unexpected event, he would start pressing random buttons in order to feel like he was doing something.

     

    As I said, every detail. But one.

    Aska had gotten the position at Atlas Air because he lied about his past.

     

    And maybe no one wanted to look too deeply.

    Atlas’s director of human resources admitted to investigators that “it’s hard to catch someone who’s deliberately trying to deceive you.”
     
    Isn't that was "Human Resources is supposed to do? Along with implementing Critical Race Theory.

    I find it grimly ironic that the plane was descending into George Bush Int'l Airport - ironic in that Poppa Bush was the very model of the genteel cuck Republican.

    Replies: @JMcG, @International Jew

    Aska had no trouble with rote tasks; however, they confirmed that when faced with an unexpected event, he would start pressing random buttons in order to feel like he was doing something.

    Sounds like me on Microsoft Flight Simulator!

  173. @Ray Caruso
    I have a related personal experience. During my college days, I represented a large state university in Quiz Bowl competitions (basically trivia with an academic bent) against other colleges and universities. So-called Historically Black Colleges competed in something similar, but at a much lower level and against one another—only their bush-league competitions were lavishly funded by the Honda corporation and televised. Perhaps having been made overconfident by such flattering treatment, one of the several black colleges in Atlanta decided to test their mettle against Whitey (which in this instance also included many Asians). The results were even more embarrassing than I had expected from watching those televised competitions. They got blown out in every single match, the equivalent of losing a football game by 100-0. I vividly remember answering a question whose answer was Warren Harding, whereupon one of my melanin-enhanced counterparts loudly exclaimed, "I ain't even heard of that guy! He supposed to be some kind of president?" I did not major in computer science, but I later became a self-taught coder and I am made as aghast by the description of the Howard comp-sci standout in the article above as I was by my experience playing trivia against an HBC.

    Replies: @AceDeuce, @ScarletNumber, @Muggles

    Your Quiz Bowl competition vs. the noble Ubangis will no doubt be immortalized by (((Hollywood))) studios and Spike Lee in 20 years–made into a movie with a few minor tweaks.—you lynched the head negro debater’s cat the night before the show, the negro talking about Warren Harding will turn out to have a backstory in which his great grandpa was given the death penalty for having overdue calculus books, and boldly smiling at the White female librarian when she waived the fine. Harding, who was President at the time, failed to commute the death sentence, so the math genius negro was electrocuted, and the present day debating negro is triggered by his thoughts of Harding’s “racism” and his own Kentucky Fried ancestor.

    Oh, and they beat you, 100-0.

  174. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    The gist of what El Dato wrote is that this guy couldn't really fly instruments, something most pilots should able to do a little bit of even to get the Private Pilot certificate (for the emergency situation - for them - of having flown into clouds.)

    This was Atlas Air, not Amazon, though I don't doubt it could have been carrying Amazon freight. Atlas Air has as good pilots as any airline, in general. They could have gotten as many qualified pilots as they wanted, even in this day and age where the job market is great (minus the 1 'rona year). I.e, no, they didn't need to keep this guy.

    Besides being blamed on this F/O who couldn't really fly, himself, the crash can also be blamed on HR and a PC culture, the latter of which has invaded EVERY corporation that has, well, HR people.

    It was obviously the F/O's leg. The Captain hadn't been monitoring as well as he should, and when he took over, it was too late to pull the plane out of the dive. I heard more about this from a pilot at ATI (who also fly a lot of Amazon stuff). He knew the Captain.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Atlas is what’s called an ACMI airline. Same equipment, same quality pilots as the majors, but much lower cost. The pilot contracts are not as good though. They make a good deal less than equivalent pilots at the majors. Most of us have flown ACMI airlines. They often carry the same livery as the major who leases them.
    It’s too long a subject to explain in a comment, but info is easy to find for those who might be interested.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @JMcG

    Right, Mr. McG, Atlas (like plenty others) provides Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, and Inusrance. UPS uses plenty of that service during what they call "Peak", which, if you ask me, is just PC for "Christmas Season". Sometimes the livery will reflect a lease and sometimes it won't. For UPS, Western Global or Evergreen or whoever is not going to paint planes just for Christmas season (plus who even see it?)

    I've seen plenty of planes with the Amazon penis swiped across the fuselage - some are ATI (767s), while some may be Atlas or Southern Air or others. I think Kalitta keeps their own paint jobs.

    I was just telling Jack D. that there is no Amazon Airlines, per se, not just yet, anyway.

    I don't know which major passenger airlines use other airlines' planes, unless you mean "their" regionals, which most of the time have the same paint job, but not always. Now, plenty of airlines often lease the planes themselves, from a holding company or the bank, which is a different story - not ACMI.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  175. @Anonymous
    @Luzzatto

    No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.

    Altucher got his B.S. in CS from Cornell and his M.S. in CS from Carnegie Mellon and when he started his first programming job he was the only one with a computer science degree and the only one not able to program.


    https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/10-things-i-didnt-learn-in-college/

    10 THINGS I DIDN'T LEARN IN COLLEGE

    ... I spent $100,000 of my own money (via debt, which I paid back in full) majoring in Computer Science.

    I then went to graduate school in computer science.

    I then remained in an academic environment for several years doing various computer programming jobs.

    Finally I hit the real world. I got a job in corporate America. Everyone congratulated me where I worked, “you’re going to the real world,” they said. I was never so happy.

    I called my friends in NYC, “money is falling from trees here,” they said. I looked for apartments in Hoboken. I looked at my girlfriend with a new feeling of gratefulness – we were going to break up once I moved. I knew it.

    In other words, like was going to be great. My mom even told me, “you’re going to shine at your new job.”
    Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment – I couldn’t program.

    I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess.

    I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. I heard my boss whisper to his boss’s boss, ‘I don’t know what we’re going to do with him, he has no skills.’

    And what’s worse is that I was in a cluster of cubicles so everyone around me could here that whisper also.

    So they sent me to two months of remedial programming courses at AT&T in New Jersey...

     

    Replies: @Mark Roulo, @mmack, @John Pepple, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    This doesn’t make a lot of sense. I assume he knew how to write programs that worked, but what he couldn’t do was write programs that others could easily modify.

    As for not knowing how to turn on the computer, what kind of computer is he talking about? A home computer? That would be pathetic. A mainframe? That makes more sense.

  176. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @bjdubbs

    “At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles”

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%
    - - - - -
    The proportional increase from 0 to 300 is (amount of increase)/(original amount) = 300/0 = infinity, which is indeed "over 300%".

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Templar

    It was impressed on me that division by zero is impossible, although intuitively it seems reasonable that anything divided by zero is infinity. I think it would be best to say that for any constant K, K/x approaches infinity as x approaches 0.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Hibernian

    Division by zero isn't impossible so much as it's undefined. And why is it undefined? Because there's no way to lay down a rule for it, that maintains consistency with the rest of mathematics. Let's say 5/0 = ∞. Ok, then what's ∞×0? It better be 5. Now what's 6/0? Infinity again? Well, now you need ∞×0 to be 6.

    If you can come up with a sensible way to divide by zero, let me know!

  177. @AnotherDad
    @Almost Missouri


    There’s been a lot of commentary on how left and right exist in realms not just of different opinions but now also of different facts (or non-facts and facts), but this April Curley case is the inversion of that. She’s posting Google’s objective, rational assessments of why her candidates didn’t get hired, but to her that is not objective evidence of her own failure, that is objective evidence of Google’s malfeasance.

    Alongside the separate realities phenomenon, there is increasingly also this same–reality–but–opposite–conclusions phenomenon. Both phenomena are unconducive to social peace.
     
    Good comment.

    In my career facts and logic mattered. Better reasoning would--usually--win arguments. Of course, there were practical considerations. ("Next release.") But superior arguments generally carried the day. People wanted to do stuff that actually made sense and would work.

    There have always been political disputes where the sides just don't agree. Abortion is a classic. The pro-abortion feminists did/do some lying about biology, but basically it's a values issues.

    But increasingly across a whole range of issues
    -- race
    -- sex "discrimination"
    -- LBGQWERTY
    -- crime
    -- policing
    -- effects of BLM
    -- trannies
    and, of course the big kahuna
    -- immigration
    both basic facts and basic logic are all one side, but the other side just doesn't accept the facts, and if the facts are forced to the surface, then they muster an alternative anti-logic.

    Their lodestar is simply minoritarianism: minorities oppressed/virtuous; white gentile males oppressive/evil. That is their "logical" system. So they parrot obvious absurdities like "diversity is our greatest strength" as holy writ.

    One can muster all the evidence, all the facts, all the logic ... does not move the needle. Facts? Logic? You might as well be arguing with a brick wall. White man's logic--only proves how much "work" is still to be done.

    There is no normal political "fix" for this. The best you can do is escape--get away from the anti-reason people. Separate nations.

    Replies: @John Pepple

    This seems to come down to the old rationalism/empiricism split. We have empirical evidence on our side, but it doesn’t matter to them because their pure reason says we’re wrong. They know it because … well, it seems to come down to their thinking that certain opinions should not be held because it is racist to do so.

    This was evident in that

    NY Times

    review of Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book. Hirsi is black and grew up in the Muslim world, but that kind of experience didn’t cut it with the white, anti-racist reviewer. The anti-racist view of Muslims is that they are not causing any problems for women or anyone else, and that’s the end of the matter.

    • Replies: @John Pepple
    @John Pepple

    Oops. I meant to put NY Times in italics. Sorry.

  178. @bjdubbs
    "In 2014, I was hired at Google to fundamentally shift the relationship (or lack thereof) that Google had with Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Before my role existed, Google had NEVER, and I mean fucking NEVER hired an HBCU student into a tech role Please read that shit again. It’s as egregious as it sounds. At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles"

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%

    Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY), @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    Aside from the total innumeracy that she displays (can’t say that I am surprised), it would be interesting to track what became of the 300 HBCU grads that she hired at Google. Did they stay or were they pushed out? Were they transitioned to jobs where no math is required (like hers) or were they placed on “teams” so that other people could do their jobs for them and they could share in the credit? How many are still filling technical roles and carrying their full weight? I would guess fewer that 10% of them.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Jack D

    '...Were they transitioned to jobs where no math is required (like hers) or were they placed on “teams” so that other people could do their jobs for them and they could share in the credit? '

    I'll go with 'teams.' That's been the drill in schools for a long time.

    My daughter, who has always been very sharp, noticed back in elementary school that every 'team' contained either her, one of the Asian kids, or the smart white boy.

    It's a bad joke -- and of course the longer it continues, the worse it gets. Black kids who might in theory have eventually been taught their times tables or whatever never do have to. They wind up so far behind that they -- and everyone around them -- have to fake it. There's no way they're going to actually catch up.

    As so often, attempting to deny the truth just makes matters worse. It wouldn't completely solve the problem, but it would significantly ameliorate it if we would just admit where the average of black intelligence, morality, and behavior really lies.

    Nobody said they're actually bad, or should be put down. I thought my Labrador Retriever was mighty fine. I just never considered letting him drive the car.

    It wouldn't have even been a good idea to leave him alone in a room with a tray of cookies on the table. None of that means he was a bad dog. It's a matter of adjusting expectations to fit reality -- rather than attempting to alter reality to fit expectations. Perhaps all men should be created equal. They aren't, and in particular, blacks aren't.

  179. @Anon
    Here's another peek into Google diversity, mostly concerning women. Around the time of the James Damore "Google Memo" controversy a dot-Indian tech woman who had previously worked at Google posted a Medium article about how she had helped out in recruiting for women on the side. It's very Bidenesque in the way that she lets slip all kinds of stuff you aren't supposed to say while ostensibly supporting the You Go Girl message.

    I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!
    We must stop fucking it up for the amazing women in tech!

    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    In the copious hiring I did at Google, 97% of the people I hired were men. I wrote reams of appeals to the hiring committee to make cases for cross-functional candidates who would be great assets to Google, ... I had a 90+% success rate changing the hiring decision for these candidates.

    It’s not like I wasn’t trying to hire women. But I was working with a candidate pool composed of 90% men. Try software engineers with experience in sensors, wireless and hardware stacks before angrily correcting my stats there. There was no way I was going to come out of that with a larger percentage of women hires than I did....
     

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far.

    We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool.... we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.

    I’m a mother of two kids — a 7 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. They both generally have a reasonably good grasp of math and logic. You could say they are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics (with a mom that scored an 800 in GRE analytics and a dad that scored an 800 in GRE quants, anything else would be unexplainable).

    This summer, we got into beginner Python. The boy can’t stop taking on problems while the girl has declared that she hates it. She’s very ready to take on Photoshop and create filters and stickers for UrbanAMA though!

    Case in point: Sometimes, girls do gravitate more towards creative rather than logic problems, either naturally or due to the environment around them.

    ... our obsession with diversity and attempts to solve it are only fucking it up for the actual women in tech out there!

    What do I mean by this?

    We get upset about the state of gender diversity in tech

     

    We make a pact to hire more women

    The pool has (a lot) more men than women

    After some rounds of low to no success, we start to compromise and hire women just because we have to

    These women show up at work and perform not as great as we want them to

    It reinforces to the male population that was already peeved by the diversity push that women aren’t that good at tech after all ...

    Replies: @Dissident799, @Argus Bacchus, @Paperback Writer

    Wow. This lady openly recognizes that women aren’t naturally inclined to things like coding. She also points out that women cause interpersonal issues in the workplace. But lastly,

    You could say they are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics (with a mom that scored an 800 in GRE analytics and a dad that scored an 800 in GRE quants, anything else would be unexplainable).

    she openly points out her belief that intelligence is genetic and heritable.

    She’s one good mugging away from being an avowed race realist.

  180. @mmack
    @Anonymous

    "No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college."

    I'm going to shoot Mr. Altucher's theory down in flames. With my own experience.

    I went to college in the Reagan - Daddy Bush days. I majored in Computer Science and went in cold on coding experience. I had one programming class in BASIC in high school.

    My major was designated "Applied Data Processing". It focused on skills a programmer would need in the corporate IT world. It taught COBOL, CICS, JCL, database processing, some C, design and analysis, and preliminary project management. And it allowed credit for an internship in IT. My internship was very easy as I utilized skills I'd learned in my coursework. And on graduation I was hired on at a retailer and walked into a job that utilized the skills I learned.

    I read Mr. Altucher's post. He may very well be a successful person who has started and sold businesses, but he comes across as a bit of a whiner in your linked post.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Altucher is clearly exaggerating for effect. “I couldn’t even turn on a computer”. He is trying to make a point, which is that academic experience is not 100% the same as real world experience, but he thinks we are stupid and won’t get it, so he goes over the top in portraying his lack of preparation.

    I suppose the degree to which an academic background in computer science prepares you for a real world programming job depends on where and what you studied and how relevant that curriculum is to the demands of that particular job. You were at one end of the spectrum and perhaps Altucher (even allowing for exaggeration) was at the other.

    • Replies: @Moses
    @Jack D

    I like Altucher’s writing style. But I take all his stories with a grain of salt.

    Altucher is a great marketer and storyteller. I suspect many of his story elements are wildly exaggerated, to say the least.

    Some good pearls of wisdom regarding things like negotiation though.

  181. @Anon
    Here's another peek into Google diversity, mostly concerning women. Around the time of the James Damore "Google Memo" controversy a dot-Indian tech woman who had previously worked at Google posted a Medium article about how she had helped out in recruiting for women on the side. It's very Bidenesque in the way that she lets slip all kinds of stuff you aren't supposed to say while ostensibly supporting the You Go Girl message.

    I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!
    We must stop fucking it up for the amazing women in tech!

    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    In the copious hiring I did at Google, 97% of the people I hired were men. I wrote reams of appeals to the hiring committee to make cases for cross-functional candidates who would be great assets to Google, ... I had a 90+% success rate changing the hiring decision for these candidates.

    It’s not like I wasn’t trying to hire women. But I was working with a candidate pool composed of 90% men. Try software engineers with experience in sensors, wireless and hardware stacks before angrily correcting my stats there. There was no way I was going to come out of that with a larger percentage of women hires than I did....
     

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far.

    We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool.... we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.

    I’m a mother of two kids — a 7 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. They both generally have a reasonably good grasp of math and logic. You could say they are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics (with a mom that scored an 800 in GRE analytics and a dad that scored an 800 in GRE quants, anything else would be unexplainable).

    This summer, we got into beginner Python. The boy can’t stop taking on problems while the girl has declared that she hates it. She’s very ready to take on Photoshop and create filters and stickers for UrbanAMA though!

    Case in point: Sometimes, girls do gravitate more towards creative rather than logic problems, either naturally or due to the environment around them.

    ... our obsession with diversity and attempts to solve it are only fucking it up for the actual women in tech out there!

    What do I mean by this?

    We get upset about the state of gender diversity in tech

     

    We make a pact to hire more women

    The pool has (a lot) more men than women

    After some rounds of low to no success, we start to compromise and hire women just because we have to

    These women show up at work and perform not as great as we want them to

    It reinforces to the male population that was already peeved by the diversity push that women aren’t that good at tech after all ...

    Replies: @Dissident799, @Argus Bacchus, @Paperback Writer

    Her foul language is additional proof of her being a fully Westernized you-go-girl feminist useful idiot.

    Not that it wasn’t already clear, of course.

    • Agree: sayless
    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    @Argus Bacchus


    Her foul language is additional proof of her being a fully Westernized you-go-girl feminist useful idiot.
     
    It's bad enough that it would cost a white man his job. Some snowflake would say that his profanity makes her feel uncomfortable, and it would be the end of his career.
  182. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Anon

    Assembler really sorts the whizzkids from the "ordinary" (i.e. pretty bright) programmer. Some people can write twenty lines of code that does what 100 lines of a mortal's code does. And you look at it, and see how it works, but you still can't see how he thought of doing it that way.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    APL code used to be like that. Guys would write insanely compact code using highly creative insights, that others would consider to be sure signs of genius. If you could decipher what the other guy had done, since APL used its own symbols for array operations.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @PiltdownMan

    Your link is not working.

    It wasn't just a question of using symbols since other APL programmers could read and understand the symbols just fine. It was mainly that the operators were so powerful (and could be nested and strung together) such that what a line of code did wasn't at all obvious from looking at it . You could write a single line of code that would have required many more lines in any other language but (even forget about other programmers) when you yourself went back and looked at it, it might take you many minutes to figure out what was going on, if you could figure it out at all. It was the polar opposite of "structured" and "self documenting" programming languages. (It's also the opposite of assembler in that assembler is very low level and allow you do do only the most basic operations while APL has many high level operators that would require a whole stack of assembly code to implement.) It was actually great for quick and dirty types of programming but not for code that would have to endure and be maintained. A lot of what people did with APL is now done with Excel instead.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @PiltdownMan

    It sounds like perl, with which there used to be contests on how few lines of code (oftentimes 1) one could use to implement an algorithm. As you say, this might have been genius, fun, and cool, but, as Jack D. wrote, I don't see how it really helped matters.

    Back when the storage space for the program really mattered, going back a long, long ways, I could see this being encouraged for that reason. Nowadays, the most nicely laid out and documented, the better the code is for anyone who is not just about job security.

    , @martin_2
    @PiltdownMan

    I was under the impression that writing code that is "clever", fewer lines, mathematically sophisticated algorithms that are marginally more efficient, is not considered a good idea since it makes it hard to understand for any future programmer who needs to perform some kind of maintenance of the code.

  183. @Mark Roulo
    @Anonymous

    "No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college."

    Things have changed.

    James graduated with his bachelor's degree in 1989, the same year I graduated WITHOUT a computer science degree. I spent an afternoon with a family friend's son that summer and HE had graduated with a CS degree. He mentioned that he was looking forward to his employer training him to code.

    This was interesting to me, because I was planning on working as a programmer (and did ... still do!) and thought I was supposed to bring that skill to the table.

    Nope. Not in 1989 it seems.

    Today, CS graduates who can't program tend to get weeded out in the job interview. Their professor (and the CS students) know this and so at least *some* of the CS curriculum is trying to teach the kids to program at least a little bit competently as a code monkey. The *real* skill must be learned on the job, but folks do graduate knowing how to write code. What they need to learn on the job tends to be more along the lines of understanding an existing (large, badly written) codebase.

    Replies: @mikeInThe716

    Many smart people, like John Derbyshire and David Gelernter, have commented on the deficiencies of today’s CS programs and students. Given grade inflation, finding true programming talent is difficult outside of the likes of MIT or Stanford. Bottom line, an associates in CS from a good school is probably enough to start working. And if you like coding and want to grind out a skill set in you spare time, it’s getting easier all the time.

    Once working, the overwhelming quantity of systems, languages, APIs, IDEs, and OSs can be a Masters Degree in Chaos – that a CS degree barely scratches the surface. After getting hired, you can get pigeon-holed into a very narrow field of expertise. So if you find yourself at a bank translating old COBOL code to PHP and C# and hate it, find another job before you get 7 years in and cannot find anything else – without taking a huge pay cut.

    • Agree: mmack
  184. @Jack D
    @Paperback Writer

    They are NEVER going to tell the truth. Their line is going to be that they were deceived, period. Frankly they would be better off losing the case than admitting the truth, which would put them out of business. You heard the Google lady - all black grads are BRILLIANT. Anyone who says otherwise is a racist. Do YOU want to be a racist?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    You’re right.

    For all we know they’ve already settled.

  185. @Hibernian

    ...Robert Covington is the only basketball player from any HBCU in the NBA...
     
    There was a time when a fair number of NFL players were from HBCUs - I think the '60s and maybe the '70s.

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @ScarletNumber

    Jerry Rice went to Mississippi Valley State.

  186. @Jack D
    @bjdubbs

    Aside from the total innumeracy that she displays (can't say that I am surprised), it would be interesting to track what became of the 300 HBCU grads that she hired at Google. Did they stay or were they pushed out? Were they transitioned to jobs where no math is required (like hers) or were they placed on "teams" so that other people could do their jobs for them and they could share in the credit? How many are still filling technical roles and carrying their full weight? I would guess fewer that 10% of them.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘…Were they transitioned to jobs where no math is required (like hers) or were they placed on “teams” so that other people could do their jobs for them and they could share in the credit? ‘

    I’ll go with ‘teams.’ That’s been the drill in schools for a long time.

    My daughter, who has always been very sharp, noticed back in elementary school that every ‘team’ contained either her, one of the Asian kids, or the smart white boy.

    It’s a bad joke — and of course the longer it continues, the worse it gets. Black kids who might in theory have eventually been taught their times tables or whatever never do have to. They wind up so far behind that they — and everyone around them — have to fake it. There’s no way they’re going to actually catch up.

    As so often, attempting to deny the truth just makes matters worse. It wouldn’t completely solve the problem, but it would significantly ameliorate it if we would just admit where the average of black intelligence, morality, and behavior really lies.

    Nobody said they’re actually bad, or should be put down. I thought my Labrador Retriever was mighty fine. I just never considered letting him drive the car.

    It wouldn’t have even been a good idea to leave him alone in a room with a tray of cookies on the table. None of that means he was a bad dog. It’s a matter of adjusting expectations to fit reality — rather than attempting to alter reality to fit expectations. Perhaps all men should be created equal. They aren’t, and in particular, blacks aren’t.

  187. There’s an aspect to this blacks and women in tech that I never see mentioned. In any large technology company, a very large portion of the organization doesn’t do anything technical at all: they are in sales and marketing. Tech sales is full of glad-handing, Type A frat boys (and a noticeable percentage of very attractive sorority women). These roles would seem custom made for slick, glad-handing blacks (think O.J. Simpson types) who are good on the golf course and at ordering expensive wine, but in over 25 years I’ve only seen a handful of black sales guys, and I don’t think any black women. Those couple of black guys were very, very good. But where are the rest of them?

    In sales you don’t need serious technical smarts — just enough to give the pitch and answer basic questions. You certainly don’t have to code. But you need relentless tenacity and a furious work ethic. Good sales guys work way more than good techies, if you ask me. Michael Jordan would have made a great sales guy. Maybe the tenacious blacks end up going into sports or something. Still, there’s enough Talented Tenth blacks out there that you’d think tech companies could pad out their roles with blacks on the sales-side. Why doesn’t this happen more? Maybe the job is just too difficult from an hours-spent side, and blacks are lazy. Also, you need to be very forward thinking. A major tech sale can take several years from start to payoff. Maybe its the old future-time orientation thing again.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @peterike

    Sales is hard work.

  188. @PiltdownMan
    @YetAnotherAnon

    APL code used to be like that. Guys would write insanely compact code using highly creative insights, that others would consider to be sure signs of genius. If you could decipher what the other guy had done, since APL used its own symbols for array operations.

    http://archive.vector.org.uk/content/printed/251/saigusa/image001.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D, @Achmed E. Newman, @martin_2

    Your link is not working.

    It wasn’t just a question of using symbols since other APL programmers could read and understand the symbols just fine. It was mainly that the operators were so powerful (and could be nested and strung together) such that what a line of code did wasn’t at all obvious from looking at it . You could write a single line of code that would have required many more lines in any other language but (even forget about other programmers) when you yourself went back and looked at it, it might take you many minutes to figure out what was going on, if you could figure it out at all. It was the polar opposite of “structured” and “self documenting” programming languages. (It’s also the opposite of assembler in that assembler is very low level and allow you do do only the most basic operations while APL has many high level operators that would require a whole stack of assembly code to implement.) It was actually great for quick and dirty types of programming but not for code that would have to endure and be maintained. A lot of what people did with APL is now done with Excel instead.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D

    The link was to an image—a sample of APL code. I didn't save the link, and am unable to find it again.

    Good points, especially the bit about trying to decipher one's own code after the passage of time. That happened to me a couple of times with lines I thought of as very clever on my part, but then, I'd forget exactly what it was I'd thought of that made the line so compact.

    Later compilers did allow for comment text, which kind of defeated the purpose.

  189. @JMcG
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Atlas is what’s called an ACMI airline. Same equipment, same quality pilots as the majors, but much lower cost. The pilot contracts are not as good though. They make a good deal less than equivalent pilots at the majors. Most of us have flown ACMI airlines. They often carry the same livery as the major who leases them.
    It’s too long a subject to explain in a comment, but info is easy to find for those who might be interested.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Right, Mr. McG, Atlas (like plenty others) provides Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, and Inusrance. UPS uses plenty of that service during what they call “Peak”, which, if you ask me, is just PC for “Christmas Season”. Sometimes the livery will reflect a lease and sometimes it won’t. For UPS, Western Global or Evergreen or whoever is not going to paint planes just for Christmas season (plus who even see it?)

    I’ve seen plenty of planes with the Amazon penis swiped across the fuselage – some are ATI (767s), while some may be Atlas or Southern Air or others. I think Kalitta keeps their own paint jobs.

    I was just telling Jack D. that there is no Amazon Airlines, per se, not just yet, anyway.

    I don’t know which major passenger airlines use other airlines’ planes, unless you mean “their” regionals, which most of the time have the same paint job, but not always. Now, plenty of airlines often lease the planes themselves, from a holding company or the bank, which is a different story – not ACMI.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Achmed E. Newman

    So if I fly on one of those regional jets where my ticket says United, but also "operated by XXX", is that an ACMI?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

  190. @PiltdownMan
    @YetAnotherAnon

    APL code used to be like that. Guys would write insanely compact code using highly creative insights, that others would consider to be sure signs of genius. If you could decipher what the other guy had done, since APL used its own symbols for array operations.

    http://archive.vector.org.uk/content/printed/251/saigusa/image001.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D, @Achmed E. Newman, @martin_2

    It sounds like perl, with which there used to be contests on how few lines of code (oftentimes 1) one could use to implement an algorithm. As you say, this might have been genius, fun, and cool, but, as Jack D. wrote, I don’t see how it really helped matters.

    Back when the storage space for the program really mattered, going back a long, long ways, I could see this being encouraged for that reason. Nowadays, the most nicely laid out and documented, the better the code is for anyone who is not just about job security.

  191. @Luzzatto
    @Colin Wright

    Facts do not care about your muh feelings!
    http://laschoolreport.com/latino-students-lag-far-behind-whites-in-every-county-in-california-new-study-shows/

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Facts do not care about your muh feelings!
    http://laschoolreport.com/latino-students-lag-far-behind-whites-in-every-county-in-california-new-study-shows/

    Sigh. Oh all right. Score one for your team.

  192. @JMcG
    @AceDeuce

    That Marine F18 pilot that killed himself and an entire aerial tanker crew a little while ago over the western Pacific? Guess what?

    Replies: @AceDeuce, @Jim Don Bob

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/09/23/marine-corps-finds-unprofessional-command-led-fatal-midair-crash-killed-6.html.

    tl:dr: The guy was doing a night time aerial refueling, even though he had no experience doing night time aerial refueling, made “an atypical maneuver”, “lost situational awareness” (couldn’t figure out wtf he was), got above the tanker, went across it from left to right and clipped the tail. He and the five guys on the tanker died. His wizzo lived after being pulled from the water.

    • Thanks: JMcG
  193. @AndrewR
    @angmojito

    You mean mother company.

    WaPo could disappear entirely and no one would notice except the 0.1% of the population who thinks it's an important source of news and commentary.

    But Amazon disappearing would crumble the foundation of our society and economy.

    Replies: @Odin, @Shango

    But Amazon disappearing would crumble the foundation of our society and economy.

    I dunno. I stopped using Amazon at the start of 2021 and so far I haven’t missed it. Everything I’ve wanted has been readily available from other vendors online, so I don’t see that there’s been any net damage to the economy.

    On the other hand, I suppose the greater part of the money still ends up in China. Does anyone know a good source for non-CCP goods?

  194. @Moses
    @Moses

    I got my VFR private pilot’s license years ago.

    One of the first things you learn in flying lessons is not to trust your senses regarding orientation of the aircraft.

    My instructor had me close my eyes as he put the Cessna thru some maneuvers to show me that my senses lie.

    “What is the plane doing now?” he asked.

    “Straight and level” I replied.

    “Open your eyes” he said.

    I opened, looked to the right and saw all ground. We were in a steep right turn, banking about 45 degrees.

    Never forgot that. Even in VFR it was drilled into me to trust instruments, not sensations.

    Replies: @mmack, @Jim Don Bob, @ScarletNumber

    I worked with a Navy helo guy who flew SAR off carriers. He told me that on a dark moonless night out over the ocean, you’d damn well better trust your instruments or you’ll be upside down and in the drink real soon. Your brain plays tricks on you as it tries to find a horizon. See also JFK Jr.

  195. @Achmed E. Newman
    @JMcG

    Right, Mr. McG, Atlas (like plenty others) provides Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, and Inusrance. UPS uses plenty of that service during what they call "Peak", which, if you ask me, is just PC for "Christmas Season". Sometimes the livery will reflect a lease and sometimes it won't. For UPS, Western Global or Evergreen or whoever is not going to paint planes just for Christmas season (plus who even see it?)

    I've seen plenty of planes with the Amazon penis swiped across the fuselage - some are ATI (767s), while some may be Atlas or Southern Air or others. I think Kalitta keeps their own paint jobs.

    I was just telling Jack D. that there is no Amazon Airlines, per se, not just yet, anyway.

    I don't know which major passenger airlines use other airlines' planes, unless you mean "their" regionals, which most of the time have the same paint job, but not always. Now, plenty of airlines often lease the planes themselves, from a holding company or the bank, which is a different story - not ACMI.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    So if I fly on one of those regional jets where my ticket says United, but also “operated by XXX”, is that an ACMI?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jim Don Bob

    Good question, Jim. They have contracts with those regionals or own them outright in some cases. I suppose those contracts fall under the basic definition of ACMI, but I've never heard them be called that (or anytime outside of the freight business).

    , @Jack D
    @Jim Don Bob

    No, that's a regional airline, which is not the same thing as ACMI. ACMI's are also known as "wet leases" (which are distinct from "dry leases"). A "dry lease" is similar to leasing a car - it's a pure financing transaction, where they just rent you the vehicle and you are responsible for maintaining it, etc.

    Regional airlines (which sometimes nowadays are wholly owned by major carriers) serve smaller cities with smaller planes. Often by union contract, union pilots have to fly all flights in big planes for major airlines, but below a certain size, they can contract for regional airlines flying smaller aircraft to feed their main routes flying Embraers or other smaller planes. Say you want to go from Madison, Wisc. to NY (any day of the year)- you might fly Air Wisconsin ("doing business as United Express") into Ohare and then switch to a real United 737 that will take you to La Guardia.

    An ACMI is more typically a temporary or seasonal thing. Say it's a busy year (not 2021) and United wants to run a route from Philadelphia to Athens during the summer months but they don't have the capacity, nor do they want to expand and then have to lay everyone off in Sept. United might "wet lease" an aircraft - instead of being like a regular car lease, this is more like calling an Uber. The wet lessor provides EVERYTHING - the plane, the pilot, the maintenance. United just has to sell the seats.

  196. @John Pepple
    @AnotherDad

    This seems to come down to the old rationalism/empiricism split. We have empirical evidence on our side, but it doesn't matter to them because their pure reason says we're wrong. They know it because ... well, it seems to come down to their thinking that certain opinions should not be held because it is racist to do so.

    This was evident in that


    NY Times
     
    review of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book. Hirsi is black and grew up in the Muslim world, but that kind of experience didn't cut it with the white, anti-racist reviewer. The anti-racist view of Muslims is that they are not causing any problems for women or anyone else, and that's the end of the matter.

    Replies: @John Pepple

    Oops. I meant to put NY Times in italics. Sorry.

  197. @Hibernian
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    It was impressed on me that division by zero is impossible, although intuitively it seems reasonable that anything divided by zero is infinity. I think it would be best to say that for any constant K, K/x approaches infinity as x approaches 0.

    Replies: @International Jew

    Division by zero isn’t impossible so much as it’s undefined. And why is it undefined? Because there’s no way to lay down a rule for it, that maintains consistency with the rest of mathematics. Let’s say 5/0 = ∞. Ok, then what’s ∞×0? It better be 5. Now what’s 6/0? Infinity again? Well, now you need ∞×0 to be 6.

    If you can come up with a sensible way to divide by zero, let me know!

  198. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @bjdubbs

    “At the time of my departure, I had single handedly increased Google’s black engineering hiring from HBCUs by over 300%. Meaning- I brought in over 300 Black and Brown students from HBCUs who were hired into eng roles”

    Imagine being an engineer rejected by a recruiter who thinks 300/0 = 300%
    - - - - -
    The proportional increase from 0 to 300 is (amount of increase)/(original amount) = 300/0 = infinity, which is indeed "over 300%".

    Replies: @Hibernian, @Templar

    You are technically correct…
    The best kind of correct!

  199. @Bill Jones
    @SafeNow

    In the before times - mid 70's I guess, I was on a genuine African airline plane in a genuine African country (Gambia?Senegal? I've passed a lot of Single Malt under the bridge since then), when the Captain, last one to board after all the passengers were seated, boarded at the rear and strolled down the aisle looking like a deranged satirists vision of Idi Amin. The sheer weight of the gold braid was impressive.

    I was collecting my shit prior to deplaning when my experienced seatmate told me not to worry, the white guy who would do the actual flying was the first one on the plane an hour earlier.

    It was amusing then. Now that it's reality here I don't find it that funny.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Haha, Bill, as I was reading that I was waiting to see your ending, thinking about a friend’s similar story about riding on an airliner in Africa (I’ve never been). His ending was the same as yours. This was back when you could go into the cockpit and say hey (even in the US), so he went up there and a white guy was flying, and the black guy could just sit there and look impressive. I think KLM sent the white guys down there to avoid any damage to the brand.

  200. @Jack Armstrong
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Why didn’t G**gle hire the guy who tried to piggyback into that apartment building and then made the guy’s kid cry and videoed it all? Wasn’t he a “software engineer”? He seemed nine.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t know this story, Mr. Armstrong. Was it one of iSteve’s recent posts?

  201. @Anon
    Here's another peek into Google diversity, mostly concerning women. Around the time of the James Damore "Google Memo" controversy a dot-Indian tech woman who had previously worked at Google posted a Medium article about how she had helped out in recruiting for women on the side. It's very Bidenesque in the way that she lets slip all kinds of stuff you aren't supposed to say while ostensibly supporting the You Go Girl message.

    I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!
    We must stop fucking it up for the amazing women in tech!

    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    In the copious hiring I did at Google, 97% of the people I hired were men. I wrote reams of appeals to the hiring committee to make cases for cross-functional candidates who would be great assets to Google, ... I had a 90+% success rate changing the hiring decision for these candidates.

    It’s not like I wasn’t trying to hire women. But I was working with a candidate pool composed of 90% men. Try software engineers with experience in sensors, wireless and hardware stacks before angrily correcting my stats there. There was no way I was going to come out of that with a larger percentage of women hires than I did....
     

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far.

    We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool.... we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.

    I’m a mother of two kids — a 7 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. They both generally have a reasonably good grasp of math and logic. You could say they are biologically meant to be fluent in math and analytics (with a mom that scored an 800 in GRE analytics and a dad that scored an 800 in GRE quants, anything else would be unexplainable).

    This summer, we got into beginner Python. The boy can’t stop taking on problems while the girl has declared that she hates it. She’s very ready to take on Photoshop and create filters and stickers for UrbanAMA though!

    Case in point: Sometimes, girls do gravitate more towards creative rather than logic problems, either naturally or due to the environment around them.

    ... our obsession with diversity and attempts to solve it are only fucking it up for the actual women in tech out there!

    What do I mean by this?

    We get upset about the state of gender diversity in tech

     

    We make a pact to hire more women

    The pool has (a lot) more men than women

    After some rounds of low to no success, we start to compromise and hire women just because we have to

    These women show up at work and perform not as great as we want them to

    It reinforces to the male population that was already peeved by the diversity push that women aren’t that good at tech after all ...

    Replies: @Dissident799, @Argus Bacchus, @Paperback Writer

    Thanks for the link – this woman gets it!

    You should know that we are an early stage startup that cannot afford market salaries. Despite that, we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.

    The part that I bolded is the heart of the matter. Except for a vanishingly tiny and aberrant minority (Mrs. T., Martha Stewart, Oprah) even exceptionally bright women lack single-minded intensity. Perhaps that’s a good thing. Maybe women are more balanced than men. But if you want to pioneer something, create something, they aren’t suitable.

    “Drain the energy” painful but accurate. I’ve been in many situations where women did this as a matter of course. You cannot afford this in a start-up.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @Paperback Writer

    PS Unfortunately she ends in Never Never land (more women studying engineering in college!) but the rest of the article is excellent.

  202. @Paperback Writer
    @Anon

    Thanks for the link - this woman gets it!


    You should know that we are an early stage startup that cannot afford market salaries. Despite that, we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.
     
    The part that I bolded is the heart of the matter. Except for a vanishingly tiny and aberrant minority (Mrs. T., Martha Stewart, Oprah) even exceptionally bright women lack single-minded intensity. Perhaps that's a good thing. Maybe women are more balanced than men. But if you want to pioneer something, create something, they aren't suitable.

    "Drain the energy" painful but accurate. I've been in many situations where women did this as a matter of course. You cannot afford this in a start-up.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    PS Unfortunately she ends in Never Never land (more women studying engineering in college!) but the rest of the article is excellent.

  203. I went to a number of Google parties (Google Dances) at SEO conferences in the early 2000’s. They were held in the big open space in the Googleplex at their headquarters. Lots of googlers were there, manning booths and just enjoying the party.

    It was at the Search Engine Strategies conference in San Jose every year, when Google was trying not to be evil. We’d all get in line at the McEnery Convention Center… (start the video at 1:30) and get on the bus to the party.

    I met lots of google employees from eastern Europe and Russia. I met lots of googlers from Asia, mostly India. I also met a number of googlers who were young women. Every googler I ever conversed with was bright, I’d guess 130+, with some of them “on the spectrum” somewhere.

    I didn’t have the impression that they were looking for diamonds, but they were trying to corner the market on bright young people.

    My impression at the time was that Google hired bright young women for the same reason they provided free gourmet food, free massage and free laundry services; they wanted their male engineers to work all the time, and when would they meet any girls?

    Never met a black person at a Google dance event. I’m sure there must have been black people somewhere.

  204. The kids at Howard and every other school I worked with are simply BRILLIANT.

    She doesn’t know what BRILLIANT means. Most CS grads with good degrees from good colleges would not be BRILLIANT enough for Google.

    She has a bad case of the Dunning-Kruger Effect By Proxy.

    So Google has successfully fought the plague of White Supremacy by reducing the white share of their technical workers from a disgraceful 62% in 2014 (and what did Google ever accomplish up through 2014?) to 48% in 2020, but mostly through the expedient of boosting its share of white-adjacent Asians from 35% to 48%.

    They will get away with their dismal record at hiring blacks because they can show that they are not protecting whites. At the same time, they can keep salaries down by hiring from Asia. This is what business people call a “win-win situation”.

    When BLM activists want a company’s workforce to “look like America”, that is a Good Thing. If white people were to make the same request, it becomes a Bad Thing. Heck, you can’t ask for the workforce to even be American.

  205. Back during my undergrad days in the late ’90s I had to explain resistive dividers to the Shaniqua I was saddled with as my third year analog electronics lab partner.

    This was right after she got off her cell phone with a confidant explaining that she had an offer on the table from Microsoft for $52k/year and 500 stock options, but she knew, just KNEW that she deserved $55k/year and 1000 stock options.

    I wish the corporate world the worst with all their unicorn hunting efforts.

    I hate this timeline.

  206. @joe_mama
    @MIC

    Right on with PMs these days. Most are essentially glorified administrative assistants/secretaries. We don't call them that of course.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard

    Right on with PMs these days. Most are essentially glorified administrative assistants/secretaries. We don’t call them that of course.

    I’d throw Project Managers and Project Engineers in the same boat.

    The bulk of the work is simply tracking and updating schedules and budgets.

    • Agree: Alden, joe_mama
  207. I don’t have actual statistics on this, but from my experience with Big Tech it seems like a large majority of their black engineers have names like Kwento and Akiki rather than Jamal or DeShawn. In other words they’re first- or second-generation African immigrants, a group usually rather less deserving of pity than slave descendents. I like to imagine what would happen if Diversity advocates decided this was a further problem and started calling them out on it.

  208. @Hibernian

    ...Robert Covington is the only basketball player from any HBCU in the NBA...
     
    There was a time when a fair number of NFL players were from HBCUs - I think the '60s and maybe the '70s.

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @ScarletNumber

    The AFL was especially progressive about drafting from HBCU’s, more out of necessity than altruism. Nevertheless, it worked.

  209. @Ray Caruso
    I have a related personal experience. During my college days, I represented a large state university in Quiz Bowl competitions (basically trivia with an academic bent) against other colleges and universities. So-called Historically Black Colleges competed in something similar, but at a much lower level and against one another—only their bush-league competitions were lavishly funded by the Honda corporation and televised. Perhaps having been made overconfident by such flattering treatment, one of the several black colleges in Atlanta decided to test their mettle against Whitey (which in this instance also included many Asians). The results were even more embarrassing than I had expected from watching those televised competitions. They got blown out in every single match, the equivalent of losing a football game by 100-0. I vividly remember answering a question whose answer was Warren Harding, whereupon one of my melanin-enhanced counterparts loudly exclaimed, "I ain't even heard of that guy! He supposed to be some kind of president?" I did not major in computer science, but I later became a self-taught coder and I am made as aghast by the description of the Howard comp-sci standout in the article above as I was by my experience playing trivia against an HBC.

    Replies: @AceDeuce, @ScarletNumber, @Muggles

    I represented a large state university in Quiz Bowl competitions

    Our esteemed author represented Rice in the College Bowl.

  210. @theMann
    @MIC

    "Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions."


    Oh, is that what Microsoft is doing? Leaving aside, for the moment, that Microsoft has yet to hire a single human being who could write a coherent English sentence, I have to say AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS IN IT, that Microsoft primarily hires people on their ability to obfuscate, prevaricate, and generally avoid ever solving a problem.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @The Wild Geese Howard

    … that Microsoft primarily hires people on their ability to obfuscate, prevaricate, and generally avoid ever solving a problem.

    This is every corporation now.

  211. @Moses
    @Moses

    I got my VFR private pilot’s license years ago.

    One of the first things you learn in flying lessons is not to trust your senses regarding orientation of the aircraft.

    My instructor had me close my eyes as he put the Cessna thru some maneuvers to show me that my senses lie.

    “What is the plane doing now?” he asked.

    “Straight and level” I replied.

    “Open your eyes” he said.

    I opened, looked to the right and saw all ground. We were in a steep right turn, banking about 45 degrees.

    Never forgot that. Even in VFR it was drilled into me to trust instruments, not sensations.

    Replies: @mmack, @Jim Don Bob, @ScarletNumber

    Even in VFR it was drilled into me to trust instruments, not sensations.

    That’s impossible! They’re [flying] on instruments.

  212. @PiltdownMan
    @YetAnotherAnon

    APL code used to be like that. Guys would write insanely compact code using highly creative insights, that others would consider to be sure signs of genius. If you could decipher what the other guy had done, since APL used its own symbols for array operations.

    http://archive.vector.org.uk/content/printed/251/saigusa/image001.jpg

    Replies: @Jack D, @Achmed E. Newman, @martin_2

    I was under the impression that writing code that is “clever”, fewer lines, mathematically sophisticated algorithms that are marginally more efficient, is not considered a good idea since it makes it hard to understand for any future programmer who needs to perform some kind of maintenance of the code.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  213. @Anonymous
    @Luzzatto

    No college or STEM major prepares you to be a code monkey. As blogger and podcaster James Altucher has pointed out in his arguments against wasting time and money on college.

    Altucher got his B.S. in CS from Cornell and his M.S. in CS from Carnegie Mellon and when he started his first programming job he was the only one with a computer science degree and the only one not able to program.


    https://jamesaltucher.com/blog/10-things-i-didnt-learn-in-college/

    10 THINGS I DIDN'T LEARN IN COLLEGE

    ... I spent $100,000 of my own money (via debt, which I paid back in full) majoring in Computer Science.

    I then went to graduate school in computer science.

    I then remained in an academic environment for several years doing various computer programming jobs.

    Finally I hit the real world. I got a job in corporate America. Everyone congratulated me where I worked, “you’re going to the real world,” they said. I was never so happy.

    I called my friends in NYC, “money is falling from trees here,” they said. I looked for apartments in Hoboken. I looked at my girlfriend with a new feeling of gratefulness – we were going to break up once I moved. I knew it.

    In other words, like was going to be great. My mom even told me, “you’re going to shine at your new job.”
    Only one problem: when I arrived at the job, after 8 years of learning how to program in an academic environment – I couldn’t program.

    I won’t get into the details. But I had no clue. I couldn’t even turn on a computer. It was a mess.

    I think I even ruined people’s lives while trying to do my job. I heard my boss whisper to his boss’s boss, ‘I don’t know what we’re going to do with him, he has no skills.’

    And what’s worse is that I was in a cluster of cubicles so everyone around me could here that whisper also.

    So they sent me to two months of remedial programming courses at AT&T in New Jersey...

     

    Replies: @Mark Roulo, @mmack, @John Pepple, @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I know a fellow who is a high school drop out who used to rake hundred dollar bills off the autumn ground as a consultant to AT&T during the mid to late eighties to bring them out of the mainframe age and up to speed with MS DOS desktop computers. The guy just has the knack for it.

  214. @Abolish_public_education
    @ScarletNumber

    Why didn’t he just ask her whether she had even bothered to read his resume?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @Polistra, @Alden

    It’s incredibly rude and racist to ask a black person to read something or if they read something.

    Because so many blacks with BA BS MA MS and JDs degrees really can’t read

  215. @Argus Bacchus
    @Anon

    Her foul language is additional proof of her being a fully Westernized you-go-girl feminist useful idiot.

    Not that it wasn't already clear, of course.

    Replies: @James N. Kennett

    Her foul language is additional proof of her being a fully Westernized you-go-girl feminist useful idiot.

    It’s bad enough that it would cost a white man his job. Some snowflake would say that his profanity makes her feel uncomfortable, and it would be the end of his career.

  216. @Ray Caruso
    I have a related personal experience. During my college days, I represented a large state university in Quiz Bowl competitions (basically trivia with an academic bent) against other colleges and universities. So-called Historically Black Colleges competed in something similar, but at a much lower level and against one another—only their bush-league competitions were lavishly funded by the Honda corporation and televised. Perhaps having been made overconfident by such flattering treatment, one of the several black colleges in Atlanta decided to test their mettle against Whitey (which in this instance also included many Asians). The results were even more embarrassing than I had expected from watching those televised competitions. They got blown out in every single match, the equivalent of losing a football game by 100-0. I vividly remember answering a question whose answer was Warren Harding, whereupon one of my melanin-enhanced counterparts loudly exclaimed, "I ain't even heard of that guy! He supposed to be some kind of president?" I did not major in computer science, but I later became a self-taught coder and I am made as aghast by the description of the Howard comp-sci standout in the article above as I was by my experience playing trivia against an HBC.

    Replies: @AceDeuce, @ScarletNumber, @Muggles

    You can get a taste of your Quiz Bowl experience on a daily basis.

    The wife loves to watch Jeopardy! (now, deplorably Woke) and look at the contestants.

    They have hundreds of thousands take the online qualifying quiz, and I assume after sorting some of the better ones get in person interviews.

    Most contestants are white males (White!). Though females have been in the mix and now I suspect a quota. Some seem dumber than the dumb white guys, hard to know for certain.

    There are also plenty of Asians, a few hapas, some Hispanics (hard to tell other than names/appearance) and a somewhat outsized portion of Jews (again, names or appearance). Also more than “normal” share of subcons. Some of those admit to being spelling bee champs.

    There are some blacks of course. Most wash out like 2/3s of the players each time. Not many daily black winners or continuing winners. However the few black winners they have seem to be very sharp, multiple winners, quick and smart. They have been male. Always, though there may be exceptions.

    So do your own research, even though I”m sure the selection process is as Woke as they can make it. I suspect a time series of racial characteristics would point to more “diversity” now but not among winners.

    It is fun to note that as Woke questions are being added, almost none of these very smart people ever get those correct (obscure black Academy Award winners, obscure female “notables”, etc.)

    The wife also loves Family Feud (I watch sometimes too) where correct answers are based on supposed surveys. Diversity wise, it is the opposite of Jeopardy!. Still pretty entertaining, though I suspect Steve Harvey fans might be scarce among iSteve commentators.

  217. @JMcG
    @Paperback Writer

    I looked up the VP of HR for Atlas. She came to Atlas from the world of women’s fashion. The CEO is a lawyer. I must admit, I never really believed we’d get people affirmative-actioned into airline cockpits, but here we are.

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Muggles

    I never really believed we’d get people affirmative-actioned into airline cockpits, but here we are.

    Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged (circa 1957) is the most accurate ‘science fiction’ account of our now 70 year future reality. Sadly.

    Among other things, she described airliners literally falling out of the skies due to collectivist brainwashing manufacturing standards, pilot training, etc.

    I occasionally see a “Who is John Galt” bumpersticker on cars in my neighborhood. Always brightens my day.

  218. @PiltdownMan
    Maybe Google CEO could announce that a DNA test has established that he and the late jazz musician Milt Jackson had a common West African ancestor.

    Perhaps that will take some of the heat off Google.

    https://i.imgur.com/LeFViHV.jpg

    Replies: @Escher, @rec1man

    Google CEO is a Tamil Brahmin, the highest IQ slice of India – 3 / 4 Science Nobels, Math whiz Ramanujam and former Chess Champion Vish Anand

    this is one of the most extreme IQ gaps, putting a Tamil Brahmin vs a Black African ;

    Mindy Kaling is a Tamil Dravidian and her brother got into medical school by claiming to be black

  219. @Moses
    @Colin Wright

    Do not underestimate the power “Crimestop” and “protective stupidity” have to prevent the minds of woke Whites from seeing obvious truths supported by overwhelming evidence.


    Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.

    George Orwell, 1984
     

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘Do not underestimate the power “Crimestop” and “protective stupidity” have to prevent the minds of woke Whites from seeing obvious truths supported by overwhelming evidence.’

    That’s true enough. I’ve experienced it in the first person.

    I grew up around blacks — in Northern California, before the great Hispanic wave.

    So although I’d had little contact with Hispanics, I was familiar with blacks…to say the least. But I never articulated any consciously racist thoughts, even though looking back I can certainly see I experienced plenty of objectively valid reasons to.

    It wasn’t until I moved down to LA that the scales fell from my eyes. Here were Hispanics — on whose behalf just about all the excuses that could be offered for blacks could be offered as well.

    Yet Hispanics were on the whole perfectly decent human beings. Not saints, that’s for sure — but you could live and work with them. They were alright.

    At that point, I began to look at black behavior with a clear eye.

  220. @Jim Don Bob
    @Achmed E. Newman

    So if I fly on one of those regional jets where my ticket says United, but also "operated by XXX", is that an ACMI?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    Good question, Jim. They have contracts with those regionals or own them outright in some cases. I suppose those contracts fall under the basic definition of ACMI, but I’ve never heard them be called that (or anytime outside of the freight business).

  221. @Cato
    @JohnnyWalker123


    It’s amazing that with all this screaming about diversity in Silicon Valley, no one ever talks about the mass flooding of H1bs into the software industry. Truly remarkable.

     

    Not amazing. Not remarkable. Screaming about diversity and mass flooding of H1bs are just two fronts in the war against whites.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Perceptive point.

  222. @Jim Don Bob
    @Achmed E. Newman

    So if I fly on one of those regional jets where my ticket says United, but also "operated by XXX", is that an ACMI?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    No, that’s a regional airline, which is not the same thing as ACMI. ACMI’s are also known as “wet leases” (which are distinct from “dry leases”). A “dry lease” is similar to leasing a car – it’s a pure financing transaction, where they just rent you the vehicle and you are responsible for maintaining it, etc.

    Regional airlines (which sometimes nowadays are wholly owned by major carriers) serve smaller cities with smaller planes. Often by union contract, union pilots have to fly all flights in big planes for major airlines, but below a certain size, they can contract for regional airlines flying smaller aircraft to feed their main routes flying Embraers or other smaller planes. Say you want to go from Madison, Wisc. to NY (any day of the year)- you might fly Air Wisconsin (“doing business as United Express”) into Ohare and then switch to a real United 737 that will take you to La Guardia.

    An ACMI is more typically a temporary or seasonal thing. Say it’s a busy year (not 2021) and United wants to run a route from Philadelphia to Athens during the summer months but they don’t have the capacity, nor do they want to expand and then have to lay everyone off in Sept. United might “wet lease” an aircraft – instead of being like a regular car lease, this is more like calling an Uber. The wet lessor provides EVERYTHING – the plane, the pilot, the maintenance. United just has to sell the seats.

    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob
  223. @Michael S
    At first I was surprised that she actually posted the interview feedback and other study results, which show very clearly that they were evaluated entirely on the same coding criteria as any other candidate, but with a lot of funding and special help to try to boost their scores. In other words, they were given all the preferential treatment that Google is legally allowed to give them and still couldn't get in because they literally can't code.

    When the women and trannies complain that women and trannies don't have it easy enough, they dish out nebulous examples of microaggressions and other petty work complaints that are subjective enough so that you can interpret them as some sort of unconscious discrimination if you squint hard enough. And of course they complain about total representation. But they never tell you why, because that would be giving up the game.

    This woman is just blurting it all out, telling us straight up that Google did everything possible for these candidates but they just plain sucked.

    Anyway, at first I was surprised, but then I realized, as the collective IQ of these hustlers continues to plummet, we are probably going to see more and more of these admissions.

    Replies: @Moses, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Anyway, at first I was surprised, but then I realized, as the collective IQ of these hustlers continues to plummet, we are probably going to see more and more of these admissions.

    Look for a move towards ‘collaborative coding teams’ at the big tech corporations. ‘Diverse code’ will be hailed as superior code.

  224. @AndrewR
    @angmojito

    You mean mother company.

    WaPo could disappear entirely and no one would notice except the 0.1% of the population who thinks it's an important source of news and commentary.

    But Amazon disappearing would crumble the foundation of our society and economy.

    Replies: @Odin, @Shango

    You can’t think that one of the largest newspapers in the country would disappear and no one would notice or miss them?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Shango

    I keep getting offers to subscribe to the Post website for $29/year, which is 8 cents/day. So apparently, by their own estimation, their journalism has some value but not much. The Wall Street Journal wants $19.50/month or 65 cents/day so they view their content as being 8 times more valuable. These are in effect market prices.

    Replies: @International Jew

  225. @Jack D
    @mmack

    Altucher is clearly exaggerating for effect. "I couldn't even turn on a computer". He is trying to make a point, which is that academic experience is not 100% the same as real world experience, but he thinks we are stupid and won't get it, so he goes over the top in portraying his lack of preparation.

    I suppose the degree to which an academic background in computer science prepares you for a real world programming job depends on where and what you studied and how relevant that curriculum is to the demands of that particular job. You were at one end of the spectrum and perhaps Altucher (even allowing for exaggeration) was at the other.

    Replies: @Moses

    I like Altucher’s writing style. But I take all his stories with a grain of salt.

    Altucher is a great marketer and storyteller. I suspect many of his story elements are wildly exaggerated, to say the least.

    Some good pearls of wisdom regarding things like negotiation though.

  226. Looks like it gonna be a tough year for American big tech. Not only are diversity hires not working out, but those A holes on Wall Street are getting nervous about throwing money at anything with tech in its name and starting to shift their bets to dirty old oil majors like Shell and Exxon Mobil. And to add insult to injury, Europe is pissed off about constantly losing money to tax dodging cyber monopolies like Google and Microsoft and is now spending big on software starts ups.

  227. @peterike
    There's an aspect to this blacks and women in tech that I never see mentioned. In any large technology company, a very large portion of the organization doesn't do anything technical at all: they are in sales and marketing. Tech sales is full of glad-handing, Type A frat boys (and a noticeable percentage of very attractive sorority women). These roles would seem custom made for slick, glad-handing blacks (think O.J. Simpson types) who are good on the golf course and at ordering expensive wine, but in over 25 years I've only seen a handful of black sales guys, and I don't think any black women. Those couple of black guys were very, very good. But where are the rest of them?

    In sales you don't need serious technical smarts -- just enough to give the pitch and answer basic questions. You certainly don't have to code. But you need relentless tenacity and a furious work ethic. Good sales guys work way more than good techies, if you ask me. Michael Jordan would have made a great sales guy. Maybe the tenacious blacks end up going into sports or something. Still, there's enough Talented Tenth blacks out there that you'd think tech companies could pad out their roles with blacks on the sales-side. Why doesn't this happen more? Maybe the job is just too difficult from an hours-spent side, and blacks are lazy. Also, you need to be very forward thinking. A major tech sale can take several years from start to payoff. Maybe its the old future-time orientation thing again.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Sales is hard work.

  228. @Shango
    @AndrewR

    You can't think that one of the largest newspapers in the country would disappear and no one would notice or miss them?

    Replies: @Jack D

    I keep getting offers to subscribe to the Post website for $29/year, which is 8 cents/day. So apparently, by their own estimation, their journalism has some value but not much. The Wall Street Journal wants $19.50/month or 65 cents/day so they view their content as being 8 times more valuable. These are in effect market prices.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Jack D

    $29/year might just be the come-on price.

  229. @MIC
    Microsoft and later, Google, are known for their ultra tough interviews. At Microsoft for example you have to get through at least 4 sometimes 5 interviewers before you get to the hiring manager who will make the final call. At each hour long interview, you will be asked to solve all kinds of brain teasers and puzzles in addition to technical questions. At the end of each interview the interviewer sends out a yay/nay email to everyone on the interview loop, with a phone call to the next interviewer who won't have time to read your email. If you get two or three nays in a row you'll be sent packing, never getting to the hiring manager. A successful candidate usually goes through a 5 to 6 hour interview day. Few pretenders can get through their doors.

    But these companies have become so damn woke, I see them eventually coming up with alternative interviews with softball questions for their affirmative action hires, or just create lots of useless, non-technical positions for them but with fancy sounding names, like "Program Manager", which used to be all technical but now there are lots of non-tech PMs. It's no different than colleges coming with STEM sounding majors that aren't really technical, like "Human Biology" for those who can't hack real biology, or "Computers and Society" for those who can't hack real CS, just so they could graduate more minority "STEM" majors.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Elmer T. Jones, @theMann, @joe_mama, @Sebastian Hawks

    Yeh, my half assed company had a real chump for an HR manager and they too ran these 3 day interviews and all they managed to settle upon was hiring these psychopaths and con artist type compulsive liars. Total opportunists who hung around for a few months lying up themselves before quitting when they figured out they weren’t going to get to be in charge. One of the managers complained to us about their hires, he said there are two types of people: good workers and good interviewers, they got only good interviewers. Another guy said all the people he overrode the chump in HR are quiet dedicated workers who are still around, all the ones the HR chump was all impressed with are gone.

  230. It’s wymmin’s day on CNBC so they just had Melinda Gates on babbling about stuff. With that lower pitched voice and vaguely lipstick attitude, I can’t help but wonder if someone pushed nerdy Bill into marrying a fully modified trans. I mean, it’s not like he’d be likely to notice, not really.

    • Replies: @Moses
    @anon

    Bill may be a business alpha, but with women he’s solidly beta.

    Melinda was a middle manager at MSFT when she got her hooks into him. It’s not like we can imagine Bill picking up chicks in street daygame.

    Bill’s beta-tude cemented for me when Melinda gave an interview complaining how she browbeat Bill into taking the kids to school sometimes. This when Bill running MSFT empire.

    Not only a harridan, but shrieks and badmouths her husband in public. No woman respects a beta, even if he’s the world’s richest man.

  231. @Jack D
    @PiltdownMan

    Your link is not working.

    It wasn't just a question of using symbols since other APL programmers could read and understand the symbols just fine. It was mainly that the operators were so powerful (and could be nested and strung together) such that what a line of code did wasn't at all obvious from looking at it . You could write a single line of code that would have required many more lines in any other language but (even forget about other programmers) when you yourself went back and looked at it, it might take you many minutes to figure out what was going on, if you could figure it out at all. It was the polar opposite of "structured" and "self documenting" programming languages. (It's also the opposite of assembler in that assembler is very low level and allow you do do only the most basic operations while APL has many high level operators that would require a whole stack of assembly code to implement.) It was actually great for quick and dirty types of programming but not for code that would have to endure and be maintained. A lot of what people did with APL is now done with Excel instead.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    The link was to an image—a sample of APL code. I didn’t save the link, and am unable to find it again.

    Good points, especially the bit about trying to decipher one’s own code after the passage of time. That happened to me a couple of times with lines I thought of as very clever on my part, but then, I’d forget exactly what it was I’d thought of that made the line so compact.

    Later compilers did allow for comment text, which kind of defeated the purpose.

  232. @Jack D
    @Shango

    I keep getting offers to subscribe to the Post website for $29/year, which is 8 cents/day. So apparently, by their own estimation, their journalism has some value but not much. The Wall Street Journal wants $19.50/month or 65 cents/day so they view their content as being 8 times more valuable. These are in effect market prices.

    Replies: @International Jew

    $29/year might just be the come-on price.

  233. @Stealth
    Bison, as in “Buffalo Soldier?” Is that deliberate or did no one make the connection?

    Replies: @Paperback Writer

    I made that connection. There’s nothing on their website about that, though.

  234. @anon
    It's wymmin's day on CNBC so they just had Melinda Gates on babbling about stuff. With that lower pitched voice and vaguely lipstick attitude, I can't help but wonder if someone pushed nerdy Bill into marrying a fully modified trans. I mean, it's not like he'd be likely to notice, not really.

    Replies: @Moses

    Bill may be a business alpha, but with women he’s solidly beta.

    Melinda was a middle manager at MSFT when she got her hooks into him. It’s not like we can imagine Bill picking up chicks in street daygame.

    Bill’s beta-tude cemented for me when Melinda gave an interview complaining how she browbeat Bill into taking the kids to school sometimes. This when Bill running MSFT empire.

    Not only a harridan, but shrieks and badmouths her husband in public. No woman respects a beta, even if he’s the world’s richest man.

  235. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Anon

    Linear algebra, usually in the third semester, as a lead in to multivariate calculus and/or analysis is the traditional filter in mathematics departments. About half the math majors in my class switched to economics or something similar after barely making it through linear algebra. To be fair, the course was conducted at a fairly high level of abstraction. Hoffman and Kunze was the text.

    Replies: @Gringo

    Linear algebra, usually in the third semester, as a lead in to multivariate calculus and/or analysis is the traditional filter in mathematics departments. About half the math majors in my class switched to economics or something similar after barely making it through linear algebra.

    The Linear Algebra course I took was heavy on proofs. I had no problem doing the proofs, as my New Math – a.ka. Illinois Math- courses in high school emphasized proofs from the beginning. There were a lot of low grades in that Linear Algebra course. Maybe half the class got a D or lower.

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