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Gerald Early on Muhammad Ali
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Here are some excerpts from the introduction of the 1997 anthology The Muhammad Ali Reader by Gerald Early, an insightful professor of black studies at Washington U. in St. Louis.

THE MUHAMMAD ALI READER
By GERALD EARLY
THE ECCO PRESS

… Ali, as a result of his touching, or poignant, or pathetic, or tragic (take your pick) appearance at the torch-lighting ceremony at 1996 Olympics Games in Atlanta has become, for new generations that did not grow up with him and for the older generations that did, the Great American Martyr, our new Lincoln, our new Martin Luther King … And no one embodied American popular culture, its excesses, its barbarities, and its disarming densities, more than Muhammad Ali.

The public rarely responds to this sort of demise of a great popular performer with anything approaching good sense or objectivity, and almost certainly with nothing approaching a kind of gracious humor, something that, in this case, the subject himself may very much embrace and seems to be trying to instruct us in how to achieve. This is even less likely to happen when the figure in question is a black man, a cunning archetype who is already so burdened by a baggage of both sentimentality and taboo as to be likely a virtual walking expression of the culture’s irrationality even if his old age had been a bit less marked by illness. And Ali had been a lightning rod for the culture’s irrationality all of his life, sometimes provoking it purposely, sometimes a veritable representation of it himself. This was, after all, the man who not only brilliantly playacted a combination panic attack/nervous breakdown at the weigh-in of his first championship fight with the dreaded Sonny Liston in 1964; served as the redoubtable, tricksterlike black comic to Howard Cosell’s liberal Jewish straight man; had a highly publicized religious conversion to a strange, if influential, cult that disliked whites but wanted to be a perfect imitation of them, aggrandizing their importance while humanizing their stark doctrine; … but who also believed for some several years that a mad scientist named Yacub invented white people by grafting them from blacks, that satellites from Allah circled the earth and would imminently destroy the United States, and that blacks who dated or married whites should be killed.

Now the public, because of Ali’s illness, wants to drown him in a bathos of sainthood and atone for its guilt. … This guilt arises largely from Ali’s stance against the Vietnam War, a war we have come to see as at best misguided and as at worst evil, and his subsequent three-and-one-half year exile from boxing; and from a feeling that somehow, we, the American public, or the white American public (since blacks were in no position to abuse him through a rather capricious application of the Selective Service Act), are the cause of his current affliction.

Missing several years from his boxing career in his late 20s prime deprived fans of seeing Ali at his best, but it probably helped Ali live into his 70s. It not like he would have saved the money he made from fights in 1968 and 1969 so he could retire young and live the quiet life. Ali loved being the champ.

And we did this to him because he became a Black Muslim and spoke out frankly against racism and white double-dealing, something no black athletic hero had ever done before (or since, really). He was severely maimed by and for our racial sins, our racist use of the system against him.

… Muhammad Ali, in truth, does not make a very good martyr, as Wilfrid Sheed once observed, or cannot quite be taken seriously as one. Doubtless, as Sheed points out, Ali had a martyr’s complex, which is why he became a member of the Nation of Islam, not because he felt the slings and arrows of outrageous racism (Ali had a very indulged life, from boyhood on) but because he wanted “to [take] on the scars of his brothers.” For a man with a great sense of public mission and public consciousness, as Ali had, an act of such solidarity with the most bitter blacks on the bottom was a theatrical and vividly condensed bit of risk-taking. What Ali had, in this regard, is exactly what Malcolm X claimed to have near the end of his life: not truth, not vision, not wisdom, but sincerity. This counts for a great deal in an age of relativism and cynicism, in an age when we have given ourselves over to the adolescent’s version of reality, instead of the Heminway-esque version: One’s measure of authenticity was not how one lived one’s life in the face of what made it impossible, but how deeply one felt about something. Intensity of feeling equaled real experience. …

Ali, despite all the talk of his brilliance, was not a thoughtful man. He was not conversant with ideas. Indeed, he hadn’t a single idea in his head, really. What he had was the faith of the true believer, like a Jehovah’s Witness or a Mormon or a Hasidic Jew or a communist, a grand public stage, an extraordinary historical moment, amazing athletic gifts, and good looks. But Ali cannot be taken seriously as a martyr because: first, other athletes, such as Jackie Robinson, Joe Louis, Ted Williams, Bob Feller, Hank Greenberg, Christy Mathewson, and many others lost several years of their athletic prime, serving in the Armed Forces during World War I, World War II, or the Korean War. No one seems to think this was tragic. Granted, we have a different view of those wars, but Ali did not pay anything more for his dissent, in relation to his career as an athlete, than other star athletes in the past have paid for not dissenting. Plus, he had the luxury of not being in danger in combat, although he was always open to the crazed assassin’s bullet. And Ali never went to prison for his pacifist beliefs, like his leader, Elijah Muhammad, or like Bayard Rustin. He wasn’t killed for his beliefs like his onetime mentor, Malcolm X, or his admirer, Martin Luther King.

For instance, when Ali appeared at Randolph-Macon College for Men in Virginia on April 17, 1969 to give a speech, one of 168 campuses he was planning to visit that year in order to raise legal funds for his defense against the draft, although there was some considerable outcry from the alumni and the locals about his visit, there was virtually no protest when he arrived on campus. He gave his speech, largely a kind of rote Nation-of-Islam homage to Elijah Muhammad, answered questions at some length, rather tactlessly asked the dean of men for his check when he was through, and, despite being worn out, was talked into appearing at a inner city school in the vicinity. According to the account given in The Catholic World, “The content of the speech itself was standard Black Muslim rhetoric, but the presentation was pure Cassius Clay entertainment…. Perhaps one might, in fact, criticize Ali for making his address so entertaining and amusing that the seriousness of his subject was somewhat obscured.” It was this quality of Ali’s, his ability to put a certain humor and, thus, a profoundly human face as well as a kind of pop culture sheen on black anger and indignation that, I think, saved his life. Like the Marxist or the deconstructionist, he made ideology self-evident where it had once been invisible, but he seemed more amused by his discovery than belligerent, more deeply struck by its wondrous expression of a benighted humanity than outraged by its expressions of unjustified power and dominance. This is the full dimension of the shallow, simplistic sincerity that protected him rather like amulet or a juju. So, in fact, after his exile, he went to make an incredible amount of money, to star in a movie of his life, and to become one of the most famous people, and surely the most famous Muslim, in the world. By the mid-1970s, after redeeming himself and regaining the title by defeating the fearsome, sullen George Foreman, Ali had become such an accepted figure in the American mainstream that DC Comics put out a special edition Superman where “that draft dodger,” as he had been called in the 1960s, beat the Man of the Steel, the Great White American Hero, in a prizefight to save humanity from an alien invasion. Martyrdom, where is thy sting?

Second, there is no indication that had Ali left boxing sooner, he would have avoided suffering the brain damage he did suffer, if he had not been exiled, very unfairly, from boxing between the ages of 27 and 30. It is a rare boxer, especially one as good as Ali was and who so wanted and needed public attention, who quits before he is literally beaten into retirement. What Ali had was an irresistible combination of talent, showmanship, and a genius conceit of himself that bordered on both the heroically self-possessed and the insufferably megalomanic. He not only believed in God, to paraphrase the lyric from the musical, Hair, but he believed that God believed in him.

Though Ali makes a poor saint, he makes a very good fallen prince, the daring, flamboyantly ignorant cavalier, which is exactly what he is: the weary, enigmatic sovereign of our time, of our realm, of our racialized imagination. What unnerves us now about Ali and brings out the insipidness of victimology is that he wound up like an old, broken-down prizefighter. The guilt we feel is that we used him as a commodity and that he used us to create great dramas of his fights, dragon-slaying heroics, extraordinary crises of our social order. It mattered greatly whether he won or lost and we are guilty about having been conned into believing a prizefight means much of anything in this world, about what our being conned did to the confidence man.

But Ali, far from being a victim, is perhaps the one of the most remarkable examples of triumph over racism in our century. It is not surprising that so many white people hated him but that before his career ended a good many had come to love him.

Ali was a public figure mostly shaped by two decisions: in 1964, he chose to stay with Elijah Muhammad’s Nation of Islam and not defect with Malcolm X and become, in effect, a leftist Pan-Africanist, a decision that made it possible for him to weather his exile years of 1967-1970 by being surrounded by a tight community of disciplined believers; in 1977, he chose to stay with Wallace D. Muhammad who de-racialized the Black Muslims instead of defecting with Louis Farrakhan’s revitalized Nation of Islam with Elijah Muhammad’s old racist tenets. Had he joined Farrakhan, Ali would not be nearly as revered today as he is.

Ali has been compared to a number of famous people, from Oscar Wilde to Jack Johnson, from Elvis Presley to Jay Gatsby. I think he bears no small resemblance to our two finest jazz musicians, Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington, and perhaps his genius might be best understood in relation to theirs. Like both of them, Ali was a southerner. Like Ellington, he came from the border South and so did not experience the most brutal sort of racism, but like Armstrong, who came from New Orleans, he came from a mythic southern place, Kentucky, with its Thoroughbreds, its bluegrass, its mint juleps, its colonels, so he experienced a deeply self-conscious white South, which may explain why he felt the oppression of racism so deeply without having to endure a great deal of it. Being a southerner, I think, explains his showmanship.

… Like Armstrong, Ali was essentially a comic. This explains why, although he was deeply hated by many whites at one point in his career, he was able to come back. He rarely said anything without a certain kind of mocking quality, and his rage, like his incessant bragging and egoism, was often that of the adolescent. Ali offered the public the contradictory pleasure of having to take him seriously while not having to take him seriously. He was deeply aware of this himself and played a game of public relations deceit as cleverly as anyone. …

Muhammad Ali could barely read. He certainly never read books. Yet his was the religion of the book–not only the Koran but Elijah Muhammad’s Message to the Blackman in America. … What fascinated Ali, like many of the poorly educated, was the authority of books or their failure as authority. When I met Ali a few years ago, he went on at some length about the contradictions in the Bible. As a devout Muslim, this seemed to please him greatly, as he must have felt he was deflating the power of that text. I told him that as a Christian I hardly expected the Bible to be anything more than a messy and messed-up book. “Now you see how tough it is to be a Christian,” I said. He smiled at that. There was probably something both miraculous and absurd about having a theological discussion with an ex-prizefighter who couldn’t talk and had actually read very little of the Bible, a rich illustration of the uses and disadvantages of having athletes serve as all-purpose black icons.

Ali scored a 16 on the Army intelligence tests, indicating that he had a low IQ. A man of his wit and quickness could not be that dumb, we protest. Yet I think the score was an honest reflection of Ali’s mental abilities. Ali was not literate, nor was he analytical. When he was younger he could successfully debate those who were much smarter, or at least had read more books, because he had the zealot’s set of answers to life’s questions. His mind worked through formulas and cliches. His personality gave them a life and vibrancy that they would otherwise have lacked. He was intuitive, glib, richly gregarious, and intensely creative, like an artist. He would have scored better on the test had he been better educated, but still he would never have had a score that reflected the range of his curiosity or his humanity. But it is perhaps no surprise for a man so taken by the authority of the book that he would be so attractive to people who wrote books for a living …

 
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  1. The end of that ties in perfectly with this piece about Mohammad Ali and boxing writing:

  2. What’s an intensity?

  3. You’d think that the Parkinson’s Disease folks would be using this event.

    Unfortunately no.

  4. Muhammad Ali started making 7 figures per fight in the 1970s and early 1980s.

    That is still a lot of money today, so can you imagine how much money it was in the 1970s and early 1980s when you adjust for inflation.

    1981 was interesting because it was the year that both Muhammad Ali & Walter Cronkite retired and the 1970s pop culture juggernaut show The Midnight Special came to an end. 1981 was the last cultural remnants of the 1970s.

    It was a cultural transition from the 1970s to the 1980s. Goodbye Jimmy Carter, Muhammad Ali, and Walter Cronkite. Hello Ronald Reagan, Mike Tyson, and I want my MTV. Goodbye Saturday Night Fever, hello Footloose.

    • Replies: @ChaseBizzy
    @Jefferson

    1981: NeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeWWWWWWWWWWWWW Wave.

  5. Something I have wondered:

    Were there any other well known athletes/celebrities who were drafted during the Vietnam era or who volunteered?

    I can’t think of any. And I don’t mean people like Oliver Stone who became famous later.

    It seems odd that Ali is pretty much the only famous Vietnam draftee.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @James Braxton

    Good question.

    Rocky Bleier was drafted after his rookie season in the NFL, and volunteered to go to Vietnam, where he was wounded. He returned to play in several Super Bowls. I can recall reading in the 1970s that he was the only NFL player who served in Vietnam.

    Replies: @cthulhu, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Das
    @James Braxton

    Yeah, it is kind of odd that Ali was drafted.

    Local draft boards were pretty infamous for showing a lot of favoritism. Eventually there was an outcry and they introduced a lottery system starting in 1970.

    Ali was drafted in 1967 under the old system, suggesting that his draft board didn't like him, or at least weren't willing to give him the deferential treatment that other celebrities got.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hapalong Cassidy

    , @Olorin
    @James Braxton

    Baltimore Oriole Al Bumbry served in Nam and was awarded a Bronze Star for interdicting a couple of tons of rice intended for the Viet Cong.

    Roger Staubach did a tour as a supply officer IIRC.

    Yankee brawler Ed Figueroa spent a couple months in country as a Marine.

    There were a bunch of reservists. Darrell Cheney, Thurman Munson, and Garry Maddox come to mind.

    EDIT:

    Woops, didn't read ahead.

    Steve, Baseball Almanac will probably have a category on this.

    , @ChaseBizzy
    @James Braxton

    Gary Lewis of Gary Lewis and The Playboys?

  6. Muhammad Ali became brain dead like a vegetable after he got parkinson’s disease, since he didn’t speak much after that.

    Meanwhile Michael J. Fox can still hold a full blown conversation even after he got parkinson’s disease.

  7. It’s amazing to see the difference between Ali at his prime and what he became after his Parkinson’s diagnosis.

    Just not the same person. I wonder how aware he was of his decline.

  8. I stopped drinking because I have to reduce my sugar intake. I bought a beer to celebrate the death of that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.) The only other exception was for the death of General Giap. In both cases I said, it should have happened sooner.

    The bible is a well written and well organized document. There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained. The Koran is a mess and contradicts itself so many times. Only a fool can believe the Koran.

    • Replies: @anon
    @flyingtiger

    Virgin birth and Resurrection are "easily explained"; Really?

    All religions need faith; else they would be science.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @AndrewR
    @flyingtiger

    You simply radiate the love of Christ.

    , @Eustace Tilley (not)
    @flyingtiger



    "...that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.)"

    Man, are you confused.

    , @Bill Jones
    @flyingtiger

    His refusal to murder people half way around the world was the best thing he ever did.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @ChaseBizzy
    @flyingtiger

    No Vietnamese ever called me honkey either. How about you McNamara, Hoffman/Rubin and Ho M work out your differences in a greasy pool of I DON'T GIVE A F..K. Limbaugh, Hewitt, Bush Jr. and Bill Kristol can be the judges.

  9. Even as far back as 1996 (google his interview with Ed Bradley), Ali could barely mutter a few words.

    I wonder how Ali (when he was young) would’ve reacted if he was a shown a video of himself as an older man.

  10. Who is the most well known famous Muslim in the world among Infidels, Osama Bin Laden or Muhammad Ali? Or is it a tie?

    • Replies: @ChaseBizzy
    @Jefferson

    The former Cat Stevens?

  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Bottom line is Ali was another black icon forced onto white America consciousness by the Propaganda Machine.

    Both Liston fights were fixed. What a charade.

    His Jewish handler Cosell guided the Anti-Sportsmanship, Anti-Christian jerk boy to media stardom.

    Funny how media Jews are obsessed with black sports stardom but only stardom outside of Israel! Within Israel a virtual boycott on black sports stardom.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Anonymous

    What boycott? There are black professional athletes in Israel. Looks like 5 out of 12 players on one of Israel's top baskteball clubs are black: http://www.maccabi.co.il/Team.asp?cYear=2016&lang=en

    , @Judah Benjamin Hur
    @Anonymous

    Funny how some people get all their news from Stormfront.

    p.s. google "That little monkey gets loose"

    , @Milo Minderbinder
    @Anonymous

    Former San Francisco Giant and Philadelphia Phillie Gary Maddox was drafted by the army before he made it to the big leagues.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Maddox

  12. Reads like comment at this blog.

  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What is a fact today is that European heavyweight boxers have intimidated black Americans right out of the competition. The tables have turned.

    A heavyweight black boxer getting into the ring today doesn’t face Jerry Cooney. He faces an assortment of angry white Euro guys with no f***s given about black victimization.

    Ali faced the weakest crew of white boxers in history.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    @Anonymous

    Oh puleeze, if you enjoy that slow, flat footed style of boxing. I do not! The Klitschko brothers are a joke, just obscenely oversized. The white, British boxers are pathetic. Prime example, the weak, windmilling, noodle armed Calzaghe. Give me an effing break. Some of the white fighters have heart, but none of them, none, have the speed power or reflexes to make a fight exciting. Mexican fighters are like fighting cocks, quick and tenacious. Europeans, just slow, boring and desperate. Ali, of course, deteriorated into the "Rope a dope", style which was a travesty and Floyd Mayweather recently used it against Pacquiao, successfully. Name one European fighter who is not "a person of color" who is in any way a superior boxer.

    Replies: @anonymous

    , @ChaseBizzy
    @Anonymous

    Sonny Liston , Joe Frazier , George Foreman , Ken Norton . Yes Randall Cobb was tough and so was that Wepner guy.

    , @ChaseBizzy
    @Anonymous

    At thirty-eight years of age Ali lasted ten rounds with a 36-0 Larry Holmes.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  14. Longest isteve post ever??

  15. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Here you go, Steve, some nice taboo race talk from Ali in a 1971 interview. Really disturbing for you, I know, because race-mixing fears are beneath you, right?

    Well, Ali was one of those anti race-mixing cavemen from yesteryear. Sort of like the Jews who bought full page ads in the New York Times (until the late 1990’s) begging other Jews to stop mixing with goyim.

    ——–snip

    M.A. – Life is too short for me to be catching hell for something like that, I’d rather be with my own, and have a beautiful daughter, beautiful wife, both look like me and we are all happy and I don’t have no trouble. I ain’t that in love with no women to go through all that hell, there’s no one woman that good. You understand?

    Interviewer – I understand, I do understand, I think it’s sad ….

    M.A. – (Interrupting) It ain’t sad because I want my child to look like me, every intelligent person wants their child to look like them, I’m sad because I want to blot out my race and lose my identity? Chinese love Chinese they love the little slanty eye, pretty brown skin babies. Pakistani love their culture, Jewish people love their culture, a lot of catholic wanna be with Catholics and want the religion to stay the same… who would want to spot up yourself and kill your race? You’re a hater of your people if you don’t want to stay who you are. You ashamed of what god made you? You think he made a mistake when he made you?

    Interviewer – I think that’s a philosophy of despair, I really do

    M.A. – Philosophy of despair? Here let me tell you, listen. No woman on this earth, not even a black woman in Muslim countries can please me and cook for me and socialize with me like my American black woman, no woman, and last is a white woman… can really identify with me and my feelings, and the way I act, and the way I talk…. it’s just nature, you can do what you want, but it’s nature to want to be with your own, I want to be with my own.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Anonymous

    I would estimate that this is the 15 time this sliver of Ali's life has been brought up here, this week.

    , @James N. Kennett
    @Anonymous


    Well, Ali was one of those anti race-mixing cavemen from yesteryear. Sort of like the Jews who bought full page ads in the New York Times (until the late 1990′s) begging other Jews to stop mixing with goyim.
     
    I wonder if anyone can provide links to copies of these ads? My (admittedly brief) attempts with Google have been unsuccessful, although this page gives a specific date:

    https://archive.org/stream/ACritiqueOfRace-mixing/CritiqueOfRace-mixing_djvu.txt

    A full page advertisement on June 21, 1983 in the New
    York Times, described intermarriage as a 'plague' and an 'epidemic'.
     
    The NYT archives on the web appear not to include advertisements.

    Here is a newspaper article a month later:

    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1983/07/29/page/2/article/who-is-a-jew-issue-may-split-judaism/index.html

    "It pains me to see everything laid out for Christian readers of the New York Times," said one prominent rabbi.
     
  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    More for you, Steve, right from the top of Voxday the funniest Ali quote yet:

    “No intelligent white man or woman, in his or her right, white mind, wants black boys and black girls marrying their white sons and daughters, and in return, introducing their grandchildren as half-brown, kinky-haired black people.”
    – Muhammad Ali

    BEST ANTI PC HAND GRENADE QUOTE EVER! Throw this around at your next gathering of Jews!

    Love the “right, white mind” phrase….

  17. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…This guilt arises largely from Ali’s stance against the Vietnam War, a war we have come to see as at best misguided and as at worst evil…”

    One of the bigger US blunders of the Cold War was trying to fight the Vietnam war without mobilizing and instead trying to fight the war using each year’s draftees. The fear seems to have been that if we mobilized the Austo-Hungarian Empire would mobilize, or something, leading to escalating mobilizations that would lead to WWIII. Alternatively, if we had professionalized the military earlier (not likely) and fought the war with career soldiers, like we do today, people might not have even realized there was a war on.

    I didn’t know Nation of Islam:

    “…In 1942, during World War II, Elijah Muhammad was charged and convicted of violating the Selective Service Act and jailed. Many other Nation of Islam members were charged for the same thing, as NOI opposes serving in the United States military…”

    Also:

    “…The NOI obtained substantial funds from then Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi …Libya channeled funds through the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) based in Canada to a Libyan intelligence front in Washington. The money was provided to finance trips to Tripoli by the NOI and American radicals, according to a Canadian parliamentary investigation and a prosecution by the U.S. Attorney’s Office in northern Virginia…

    …”At least one gathering attended by Farrakhan in Libya… offered training seminars on weapons and explosives.”…”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    A bunch of Black Muslims murdered at least 15 white people in Northern California in the 1970s Zebra Murders:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

    Replies: @Romanian, @David In TN, @Jonathan Revusky

    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    @anonymous

    Steve, as someone who lived in Chicago, I'm surprised that Steve didn't mention the Libya connection with Chi's Blackstone Ranger/Crypto-Muslim spinoff, the El Rukn's.

    That was a really freaky "intersectionality" of black street gangs, NOI mysticism, terrorism, Ghaddafi weirdness, and the usual "community organizing". This documentary shows how over the top they were.

    , @Brutusale
    @anonymous

    For the youngsters here, BCCI was quite the criminal enterprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International

    Replies: @snorlax

  18. OT- Time Magazine has an interesting article on assortative mating and dives deep into Jewish and Mormon communities.

    Multiple studies show that college-educated Americans are increasingly reluctant to marry those lacking a college degree. This bias is having a devastating impact on the dating market for college-educated women. Why? According to 2012 population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, there are 5.5 million college-educated women in the U.S. between the ages of 22 and 29 versus 4.1 million such men. That’s four women for every three men. Among college grads age 30 to 39, there are 7.4 million women versus 6.0 million men—five women for every four men. . . .

    According to the ARIS study, there are now 150 Mormon women for every 100 Mormon men in the state of Utah—a 50 percent oversupply of women. . . .

    Secular-style dating is rare in the Orthodox community in which Elefant lives. Most marriages are loosely arranged—“guided” is probably a better word—by matchmakers such as Elefant. The shadchan’s job has been made exceedingly difficult, she said, by a mysterious increase in the number of unmarried women within the Orthodox community. When Elefant attended Jewish high school 30 years ago, “there were maybe three girls that didn’t get married by the time they were twenty or twenty-one,” she said. “Today, if you look at the girls who graduated five years ago, there are probably thirty girls who are not yet married. Overall, there are thousands of unmarried girls in their late twenties. It’s total chaos.” . . .

    The Utah LDS church was in fact 52 percent female as recently as 1990. Since 1990, however, the Mormon gender gap in Utah has widened dramatically—from a gender ratio of 52:48 female to male in 1990 to 60:40 female to male in 2008, according to a study coauthored by ARIS researchers Rick Phillips, Ryan Cragun, and Barry Kosmin. In other words, the LDS church in Utah now has three women for every two men.

    • Replies: @27 year old
    @TangoMan

    I think the Mormons have a solution for that

    , @Big Bill
    @TangoMan

    That Mormon gender gap is amazing!

    For heaven's sake, here is a population of women who want nothing more than to make babies like crazy, submit to their men, and take care of a home surrounded by like-minded people in a warm, supportive, patriarchal, family-oriented culture.

    And they cannot find husbands? What on earth is going on?

    Is there any Mormon that can enlighten us, please?

    Replies: @Triumph104

    , @AnotherDad
    @TangoMan

    Interesting info Tango, thanks for posting.

    Did not know the Mormon gap was so big. I suspect defection skews heavily male for all the obvious reasons of difference in personality (conformity) and religiosity between the sexes. As Bill notes, it's a shame for all these women who want to be women--a most delightful thing in today's world--to be just sitting there "unused." I actually think a lot of the Mormon thing, the family focus and look-out-for-each-other community is pretty great stuff. It would be an attractive prospect for tradition minded outsiders, except ... the whole theology is just too loony. It's too bad there isn't something "Mormon like" for non-koolaid-drinkers.

    Perhaps in a few years when polygamy is thoroughly legalized because of Muslims, some more mainstream polygamous Mormon sects can spring up and soak up this female surplus, which will also make the whole faith more appealing to young men--the smart, attractive, successful ones who have their ducks in a row.

    ~~~

    One really bad skew the article doesn't dive into is for black college educated women. There are simply way, way more college grad black women, then men. Women--naturally hypogamous--a very reluctant to date "down". And the black college educated men, have plentiful dating opportunities, including among more feminine, non-black women. (A gal I was friendly with in my previous job, was in this demographic--just looking for a decent black guy--and they are not in a happy situation.)

    The result is a disaster. College educated black women have one of the lowest fertility rates of any demographic group--around 1, i saw in a article a few years back. If you think blacks have low IQ now ... this is making it worse, much worse. It's counter-balanced a bit perhaps by the inflow from white couplings. But the white women who mudshark don't tend to be forward thinking IQ heavy types (though they still average above the black norm). So it's not clear it balances out. It's possible blacks are getting whiter and dumber at the same time.

    Replies: @Triumph104

  19. @James Braxton
    Something I have wondered:

    Were there any other well known athletes/celebrities who were drafted during the Vietnam era or who volunteered?

    I can't think of any. And I don't mean people like Oliver Stone who became famous later.

    It seems odd that Ali is pretty much the only famous Vietnam draftee.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Das, @Olorin, @ChaseBizzy

    Good question.

    Rocky Bleier was drafted after his rookie season in the NFL, and volunteered to go to Vietnam, where he was wounded. He returned to play in several Super Bowls. I can recall reading in the 1970s that he was the only NFL player who served in Vietnam.

    • Replies: @cthulhu
    @Steve Sailer

    Roger Staubach did one year in Vietnam, but not in combat; he was at a supply base/port. Got back to the States about six months before the Tet Offensive.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bugg

    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Steve Sailer

    In the '70's outside of Buffalo Bills Stadium there was a statue built to commemorate a fallen Bills player who had died in Vietnam.

    Rocky Bleier was also awarded the Purple Heart among other medals for his courageous service in Vietnam.

  20. @anonymous
    "...This guilt arises largely from Ali’s stance against the Vietnam War, a war we have come to see as at best misguided and as at worst evil..."

    One of the bigger US blunders of the Cold War was trying to fight the Vietnam war without mobilizing and instead trying to fight the war using each year's draftees. The fear seems to have been that if we mobilized the Austo-Hungarian Empire would mobilize, or something, leading to escalating mobilizations that would lead to WWIII. Alternatively, if we had professionalized the military earlier (not likely) and fought the war with career soldiers, like we do today, people might not have even realized there was a war on.

    I didn't know Nation of Islam:


    "...In 1942, during World War II, Elijah Muhammad was charged and convicted of violating the Selective Service Act and jailed. Many other Nation of Islam members were charged for the same thing, as NOI opposes serving in the United States military..."

     

    Also:


    "...The NOI obtained substantial funds from then Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi ...Libya channeled funds through the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) based in Canada to a Libyan intelligence front in Washington. The money was provided to finance trips to Tripoli by the NOI and American radicals, according to a Canadian parliamentary investigation and a prosecution by the U.S. Attorney's Office in northern Virginia...

    ..."At least one gathering attended by Farrakhan in Libya... offered training seminars on weapons and explosives."..."

     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Brutusale

    A bunch of Black Muslims murdered at least 15 white people in Northern California in the 1970s Zebra Murders:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

    • Replies: @Romanian
    @Steve Sailer

    I found it weird that the article reverently mentioned Elijah Muhammad's supposed pacifism, despite his association and defense of George Lincoln Rockwell. Fascism for me, but not for thee?

    , @David In TN
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    The so-called Zebra Murders were way worse, and I mean way worse than is generally known. In addition to the San Francisco killings, there were some 30 murders during that period called the "East Bay Killings," which were believed to be by NOI types from Alameda County.

    See the book, "Killing the Messenger," by Thomas Peele. It's mainly about the 2007 murder of black journalist Chauncey Bailey but Chapter 12 covers the Zebra Murders along with the others in the area during 1970-74.. There were also some in Los Angeles County.

    In October 1973, there was a meeting of California law enforcement officials in Oakland. They had tracked over 70 black on white murders in California the last few years, each of which had a well dressed young black man as the suspect. The NOI were thought responsible.

    That month the "Zebra Murders" began in San Francisco. Clark Howard's 1979 book was part investigative journalism, part novel and/or New Journalism. Howard threw out various numbers for victims, up in the hundreds in California, but didn't provide data despite studying California Attorney General's office records.

    A comprehensive book on the subject has yet to be written.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky, @anonymous

    , @Jonathan Revusky
    @Steve Sailer


    1970s Zebra Murders
     
    Mr. Sailer, have you ever looked into the deep history of this time period? For example, does the term Cointelpro ring a bell for you?

    At that point in time, State agents had infiltrated every anti-System group. It was basically impossible for any groups, whether the Black Panthers or the KKK for the matter, to really do anything significant without the FBI knowing about it. So, for me, what is odd in this Zebra Murders narrative is that they are able to go on a killing spree over a period of half a year and, seemingly, the authorities have no clue what is going on and are helpless to put a stop to it. For half a year.

    Well, quite frankly, I do not claim to know what happened. What I find, though, is that if you ever seriously investigate cases like these, you almost invariably end up concluding that what really happened is something very different from the official narrative.

    By the way, a similar analysis applies to these recent terrorist events in France (and Belgium). The milieu that these supposed terrorists operate in is completely infiltrated by agents of the State. It is, to all intents and purposes, impossible for these people to be planning and carrying out these terrorist acts right under the noses of the authorities.

    I don't follow what you write that closely, but you seem to be part of a group of people here who just assume that whatever the official narrative on such events is necessarily true.

    Well, Mr. Sailer, maybe you should wise up a bit and realize that, whatever the official story is.... it ain't necessarily so....

    Replies: @Jefferson, @David In TN, @Truth

  21. @Anonymous
    Bottom line is Ali was another black icon forced onto white America consciousness by the Propaganda Machine.

    Both Liston fights were fixed. What a charade.

    His Jewish handler Cosell guided the Anti-Sportsmanship, Anti-Christian jerk boy to media stardom.

    Funny how media Jews are obsessed with black sports stardom but only stardom outside of Israel! Within Israel a virtual boycott on black sports stardom.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Judah Benjamin Hur, @Milo Minderbinder

    What boycott? There are black professional athletes in Israel. Looks like 5 out of 12 players on one of Israel’s top baskteball clubs are black: http://www.maccabi.co.il/Team.asp?cYear=2016&lang=en

  22. @flyingtiger
    I stopped drinking because I have to reduce my sugar intake. I bought a beer to celebrate the death of that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.) The only other exception was for the death of General Giap. In both cases I said, it should have happened sooner.

    The bible is a well written and well organized document. There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained. The Koran is a mess and contradicts itself so many times. Only a fool can believe the Koran.

    Replies: @anon, @AndrewR, @Eustace Tilley (not), @Bill Jones, @ChaseBizzy

    Virgin birth and Resurrection are “easily explained”; Really?

    All religions need faith; else they would be science.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @anon


    There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained.
     
    This is a situation where the comma or lack thereof before "which" changes the meaning entirely...
  23. @Steve Sailer
    @James Braxton

    Good question.

    Rocky Bleier was drafted after his rookie season in the NFL, and volunteered to go to Vietnam, where he was wounded. He returned to play in several Super Bowls. I can recall reading in the 1970s that he was the only NFL player who served in Vietnam.

    Replies: @cthulhu, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Roger Staubach did one year in Vietnam, but not in combat; he was at a supply base/port. Got back to the States about six months before the Tet Offensive.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @cthulhu

    Good point.

    Here's an article about baseball players and Vietnam: it lists five who served in Vietnam, including Jim Bibby (the taller brother of basketball player Henry Bibby) and Garry Maddox. It sounds like Al Bumbry, 1973 AL Rookie of the Year, saw the most combat.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/cooperstown-confidential-baseball-and-vietnam/

    I found another article about a guy, Roy Gleason, who had a cup of coffee with the Dodgers and then was wounded in Vietnam. It says he was the only MLB player wounded in Vietnam.

    Replies: @James Braxton

    , @Bugg
    @cthulhu

    Bob Kalsu played for the Bills so technically it was the AFL-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kalsu

  24. Why do people fall over themselves to heap praise on this thuggish, simpleton clown?

  25. Das says:
    @James Braxton
    Something I have wondered:

    Were there any other well known athletes/celebrities who were drafted during the Vietnam era or who volunteered?

    I can't think of any. And I don't mean people like Oliver Stone who became famous later.

    It seems odd that Ali is pretty much the only famous Vietnam draftee.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Das, @Olorin, @ChaseBizzy

    Yeah, it is kind of odd that Ali was drafted.

    Local draft boards were pretty infamous for showing a lot of favoritism. Eventually there was an outcry and they introduced a lottery system starting in 1970.

    Ali was drafted in 1967 under the old system, suggesting that his draft board didn’t like him, or at least weren’t willing to give him the deferential treatment that other celebrities got.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Das

    We're any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?

    I can recall athletes in the 1960s who were in the Reserves and played part time, like Elgin Baylor and Rod Carew.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Daniel H, @Justpassingby

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Das

    I know quite a few people who despise Ali's draft-dodging, but where they make a mistake is in calling him a coward. Ali was probably aware that he would never actually see combat. He probably would have done USO shows and exhibition bouts, and nothing more than that.

    Had he taken that route, it's interesting to theorize how his career would have ended up. He still would have lost a year or more of his prime to the military. He might have caught Frazier in 69 or 70 instead of 1971, before Frazier was at his peak. His first loss probably wouldn't have come until whenever he fought Ken Norton.

    Replies: @Sean

  26. Tyler Cowan praises Steve Sailer as the leading neo-reactionary thinker of our times.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @TangoMan

    You have a link?

    , @SFG
    @TangoMan

    Here's a link (I guess?)

    http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/what-is-neo-reaction.html

    Replies: @Anonym

    , @Desiderius
    @TangoMan


    Tyler Cowan praises Steve Sailer as the leading neo-reactionary thinker of our times.
     
    Sailer's not NRx.

    He's the Lebanon, KS of the American Polity.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist

  27. @cthulhu
    @Steve Sailer

    Roger Staubach did one year in Vietnam, but not in combat; he was at a supply base/port. Got back to the States about six months before the Tet Offensive.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bugg

    Good point.

    Here’s an article about baseball players and Vietnam: it lists five who served in Vietnam, including Jim Bibby (the taller brother of basketball player Henry Bibby) and Garry Maddox. It sounds like Al Bumbry, 1973 AL Rookie of the Year, saw the most combat.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/cooperstown-confidential-baseball-and-vietnam/

    I found another article about a guy, Roy Gleason, who had a cup of coffee with the Dodgers and then was wounded in Vietnam. It says he was the only MLB player wounded in Vietnam.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    @Steve Sailer

    Ok there seem to be a few examples. But over 8% of men who were draft age during the Vietnam era were drafted.

    See this Rand Corporation study, page 44: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2007/RAND_MG265.pdf

    You'd think that professional athletes would be less likely to be found medically unfit for duty and would be drafted at an even higher rate. It seems like every club would have had multiple players drafted every year, but that doesn't seem to have been the case. The whole thing seems fishy to me.

  28. Okay, doing more research, it turns out that a couple of pro football players were killed in Vietnam, which I had never heard about until now.

    1. James Robert “Bob” Kalsu (April 13, 1945 – July 21, 1970) was an All-American tackle at the University of Oklahoma and an eighth-round selection in the 1968 NFL/AFL draft by the Buffalo Bills of the American Football League.[1]

    Kalsu was a starting guard for the Bills in 1968. He played the entire season and was the Bills’ team rookie-of-the-year.[2] Following the 1968 season, to satisfy his Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (ROTC) obligation, he entered the U.S. Army as a second lieutenant and arrived in Vietnam in November 1969 as part of the 101st Airborne Division. He was killed in action on July 21, 1970, when his unit came under enemy mortar fire at FSB Ripcord near the A Shau Valley.[1][3] His family, out of respect, refused to talk in detail about the circumstances surrounding his death.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kalsu

    Long unrecognized as the first NFL player to be killed in action in the Vietnam War, Don Steinbrunner was honored by the Browns on November 14, 2004.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Steinbrunner

    So, I was generalizing too much.

    It could be that more than a few pro athletes served in Vietnam, but not much attention has been paid to Vietnam, unlike WWII. I realize now that I don’t really have a good picture of the facts of the matter.

    • Replies: @The Only Catholic Unionist
    @Steve Sailer

    Rocky Bleier. His book "Fighting Back" was even made into a made-for-TV movie, IIRC.

    Again, you've got more time to research than I do, but as a member of the Steelers he was offered an inside track on a position in a National Guard unit. Don't know how common that was...

    , @David In TN
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    Remember the email exchange we had several years ago about Los Angeles Rams wide receiver Willie Miller, who played for the Rams in the late 70's and early 80's? He was a small, clever, hands and moves type.

    Miller was written up a few times as a Vietnam veteran, even by the New York Times believe it or not during the 1978 playoffs. You might find the NYT article by a Google search.

    A while back during an email exchange with a football historian (he's published a book) I asked him if he could name four men who had played running back in the NFL and at one time or another served in Vietnam.

    He only knew Rocky Bleier. One of the other three was pretty well known. The others are not.

  29. @Das
    @James Braxton

    Yeah, it is kind of odd that Ali was drafted.

    Local draft boards were pretty infamous for showing a lot of favoritism. Eventually there was an outcry and they introduced a lottery system starting in 1970.

    Ali was drafted in 1967 under the old system, suggesting that his draft board didn't like him, or at least weren't willing to give him the deferential treatment that other celebrities got.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hapalong Cassidy

    We’re any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?

    I can recall athletes in the 1960s who were in the Reserves and played part time, like Elgin Baylor and Rod Carew.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Sailer

    Actor Dennis Franz was drafted out of college and did a year in Vietnam. He says it was Not Fun.

    Toy Caldwell, who was the guitarist and sometimes singer ("Can't You See") in the southern rock Marshall Tucker Band, enlisted in the Marines out of high school and was wounded in Vietnam. He came home and got into music.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Daniel H
    @Steve Sailer

    The actor Jimmy Stewart's stepson Ronald was killed in Vietnam.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    , @Justpassingby
    @Steve Sailer


    We’re any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?
     
    Weren't the sons of Jerry Lewis and/or Dean Martin in the service during Vietnam?

    IIRC, Garry Maddox's nickname was Sarge.

    Replies: @tony_k, @Former Darfur, @Truth

  30. @James Braxton
    Something I have wondered:

    Were there any other well known athletes/celebrities who were drafted during the Vietnam era or who volunteered?

    I can't think of any. And I don't mean people like Oliver Stone who became famous later.

    It seems odd that Ali is pretty much the only famous Vietnam draftee.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Das, @Olorin, @ChaseBizzy

    Baltimore Oriole Al Bumbry served in Nam and was awarded a Bronze Star for interdicting a couple of tons of rice intended for the Viet Cong.

    Roger Staubach did a tour as a supply officer IIRC.

    Yankee brawler Ed Figueroa spent a couple months in country as a Marine.

    There were a bunch of reservists. Darrell Cheney, Thurman Munson, and Garry Maddox come to mind.

    EDIT:

    Woops, didn’t read ahead.

    Steve, Baseball Almanac will probably have a category on this.

  31. Parkinsons can hit people in somewhat different ways. One friend of mine who had Parkinsons was able to speak until she died. Another friend with Parkinsons lost nearly all his ability to speak four or five years before dying. In both cases I think the brain and the person inside was intact.

  32. @Steve Sailer
    @Das

    We're any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?

    I can recall athletes in the 1960s who were in the Reserves and played part time, like Elgin Baylor and Rod Carew.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Daniel H, @Justpassingby

    Actor Dennis Franz was drafted out of college and did a year in Vietnam. He says it was Not Fun.

    Toy Caldwell, who was the guitarist and sometimes singer (“Can’t You See”) in the southern rock Marshall Tucker Band, enlisted in the Marines out of high school and was wounded in Vietnam. He came home and got into music.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Carl Wilson of the Beach Boys was drafted but did not have to serve because of his conscientious-objector status.

  33. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    A bunch of Black Muslims murdered at least 15 white people in Northern California in the 1970s Zebra Murders:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

    Replies: @Romanian, @David In TN, @Jonathan Revusky

    I found it weird that the article reverently mentioned Elijah Muhammad’s supposed pacifism, despite his association and defense of George Lincoln Rockwell. Fascism for me, but not for thee?

  34. A well-written piece. Having recently watched much footage of his interviews I was also struck by his ignorance and obvious lack of exposure to books. It’s no wonder he was a willing recruit to the Nation of Islam history clearly not having been Cassuus Clay/Muhammad Ali’s forte.

  35. @Steve Sailer
    @Das

    We're any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?

    I can recall athletes in the 1960s who were in the Reserves and played part time, like Elgin Baylor and Rod Carew.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Daniel H, @Justpassingby

    The actor Jimmy Stewart’s stepson Ronald was killed in Vietnam.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Daniel H


    The actor Jimmy Stewart’s stepson Ronald was killed in Vietnam.
     
    Jimmy Stewart himself served in Vietnam. He was an Air Force reserve Brigadier-General by then, in his parallel military career.

    He was qualified to fly the eight jet engine Stratofortress and went as an observer on a B-52 Arclight bombing run over North Vietnam.
  36. mq says:

    Ali scored a 16 on the Army intelligence tests, indicating that he had a low IQ. A man of his wit and quickness could not be that dumb, we protest. Yet I think the score was an honest reflection of Ali’s mental abilities. Ali was not literate, nor was he analytical. When he was younger he could successfully debate those who were much smarter, or at least had read more books, because he had the zealot’s set of answers to life’s questions. His mind worked through formulas and cliches.

    In other words — he was very smart, and used his mind very successfully, but he was not smart in the way that IQ tests measure. IQ tests are an achievement test not an overall intelligence measure. In that sense, they were an accurate test of his mental abilities but not a measure of his intelligence.

    • Replies: @biz
    @mq

    Nope. IQ test are an effective measure of the general intelligence factor g, which is in turn the best quantification that we have of general intelligence.

    Replies: @MQ

    , @e
    @mq

    IQ tests are an achievement test not an overall intelligence measure.

    You learn that from some sociology class?

    You're wrong, very wrong.

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @mq



    he was very smart, and used his mind very successfully

     

    ... very successfully as a weight to absorb energy from punches to prevent his skull from breaking?
  37. wants to drown him in a bathos of sainthood

    Bathos or pathos?

    I wasn’t sure what bathos meant and so looked it up. Complicated word…

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @International Jew

    I think the author was aiming at a punchline: he probably had that "drowning in a bath"/"drowning in a bathos" gag in mind for a long time. Not to say that it really works here.

    Bathos I have always considered to be an attempt at pathos that fails, usually in the form of some ridiculous and inappropriate sentimentality. Thus Oscar Wilde's famous quip about Dickens' "Old Curiosity Shop" - “One must have a heart of stone to read the death of little Nell without laughing.”
    What the author means by bathos here is that the canonization of St Ali is basically fake and phony.

    Of course one's bathos is another's profound sentiment. I notice this often when watching things on DVD with my wife; something or other will move her to tears and I am sitting there rolling my eyes. And I'm sure there are things that move me to tears that others think are ludicrous.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  38. @TangoMan
    Tyler Cowan praises Steve Sailer as the leading neo-reactionary thinker of our times.

    Replies: @International Jew, @SFG, @Desiderius

    You have a link?

  39. @Das
    @James Braxton

    Yeah, it is kind of odd that Ali was drafted.

    Local draft boards were pretty infamous for showing a lot of favoritism. Eventually there was an outcry and they introduced a lottery system starting in 1970.

    Ali was drafted in 1967 under the old system, suggesting that his draft board didn't like him, or at least weren't willing to give him the deferential treatment that other celebrities got.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Hapalong Cassidy

    I know quite a few people who despise Ali’s draft-dodging, but where they make a mistake is in calling him a coward. Ali was probably aware that he would never actually see combat. He probably would have done USO shows and exhibition bouts, and nothing more than that.

    Had he taken that route, it’s interesting to theorize how his career would have ended up. He still would have lost a year or more of his prime to the military. He might have caught Frazier in 69 or 70 instead of 1971, before Frazier was at his peak. His first loss probably wouldn’t have come until whenever he fought Ken Norton.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Frazier was only two years older and in addition to having much slower reflexes, short arms (the left couldn't be straightened because of an injury) he was four and a half inches shorter than Ali, and rather chubby. Ali didn't dance because Frazier stomped forward to cut off the ring on him. Ali had never faced anyone with the heart or workrate of Frazier, who by the way employed Norton as a sparring partner and knocked him down repeatedly. Foreman ruined Frazier, who seemed willing to die in their bout. Ali never faced the real Foreman.

  40. @Steve Sailer
    Okay, doing more research, it turns out that a couple of pro football players were killed in Vietnam, which I had never heard about until now.

    1. James Robert "Bob" Kalsu (April 13, 1945 – July 21, 1970) was an All-American tackle at the University of Oklahoma and an eighth-round selection in the 1968 NFL/AFL draft by the Buffalo Bills of the American Football League.[1]

    Kalsu was a starting guard for the Bills in 1968. He played the entire season and was the Bills' team rookie-of-the-year.[2] Following the 1968 season, to satisfy his Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) obligation, he entered the U.S. Army as a second lieutenant and arrived in Vietnam in November 1969 as part of the 101st Airborne Division. He was killed in action on July 21, 1970, when his unit came under enemy mortar fire at FSB Ripcord near the A Shau Valley.[1][3] His family, out of respect, refused to talk in detail about the circumstances surrounding his death.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kalsu

    Long unrecognized as the first NFL player to be killed in action in the Vietnam War, Don Steinbrunner was honored by the Browns on November 14, 2004.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Steinbrunner

    So, I was generalizing too much.

    It could be that more than a few pro athletes served in Vietnam, but not much attention has been paid to Vietnam, unlike WWII. I realize now that I don't really have a good picture of the facts of the matter.

    Replies: @The Only Catholic Unionist, @David In TN

    Rocky Bleier. His book “Fighting Back” was even made into a made-for-TV movie, IIRC.

    Again, you’ve got more time to research than I do, but as a member of the Steelers he was offered an inside track on a position in a National Guard unit. Don’t know how common that was…

  41. So ali was good at thinking up childish insults. How does that make him a creative genius? I know a lot of blue collar guys who are great conversationalist, but they’re not as smart as some other guys i know who suck at conversations.

  42. OT, but Kristol’s guy backed out:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436222/david-french-not-running-president

    No idea whether he thinks Kristol is useless, doesn’t want to be disloyal to the party, or is afraid of opposition researchers finding out about that parking ticket he didn’t pay 20 years ago. Sounds vaguely like people were going after his wife and kids and he didn’t feel like dealing with it. Who knows?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @SFG

    (((Kristol))) is a traitor to the US. Although one maybe shouldn't have otherwise.

    , @Judah Benjamin Hur
    @SFG

    Before he decided not to run, he reportedly said, "They call me mad, but one day when the history of America is written, they will mark my name well...David French!"

    , @Ed
    @SFG

    Why submit your wife & children to what is certain to be a torrid of abuse for what at best would be a gimmick?

    The minute this idea was flouted they called his marriage into question. It's not worth it. Let Kristol run.

  43. @TangoMan
    Tyler Cowan praises Steve Sailer as the leading neo-reactionary thinker of our times.

    Replies: @International Jew, @SFG, @Desiderius

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @SFG

    Thanks SFG for the link to that piece by Tyler "Let them eat beans!" Cowen.

    His summary of what he terms neo-reaction is actually quite good. There are some issues with it. The dog that doesn't bark here is the hbd perspective - that it is not just white men per se that are responsible for most of what is great and good about the Western world through culture, there are genetic realities at work here. IQ, creativity, altruism, idealism, orderliness (lack of crime), constructiveness, innovation. Thus Cowen's stated preference to keep sprinkling feces in the soup as a way of stretching it (immigration vs encouraging native white birthrates) is destined to fail. More Detroits, more Rotherhams, more barrios... these will contribute nothing but parasitic monkeys on the back of the world's policeman and engine of innovation to as he wheezes and flails around.

    There is something worse than an appeal to authority, there is an appeal to Douthat, the white Uncle Tom of the NYT.

    Cowen's four criticisms are weak sauce to the point that one might even call them sauce. Most of the white population disagrees with the notion that America is getting greater; otherwise why would they be flocking to a banner to Make America Great Again? For the working and middle class, America is objectively declining in real terms.

    Cowen has a (((perceived))) problem with guns, those supercharged pitchforks that they are. He might ask himself why white men, their so-called neo-reactionary viewpoint excluded as it is from penetrating the PC fortress of media, entertainment, education and government; destined to endure state-sanctioned invasion of non-whites all the while white wealth is transferred to the other, their children encouraged to mix with them in what is termed genocide under the definition of the UN... why on earth would they be amassing personal stockpiles of guns and ammunition? Why aren't they revelling in the glories of their bean-eating, subletting and rickshaw driving future? Pull your head out of your goddamn ass, Cowen. You know very well that for all these guns there is statistically negligible gun violence among the white population. Mass shootings are mediagenic but the exception that proves the rule.

    Drunkenness? I am not sure where this is coming from as one of the big issues. If drunkenness is a big problem it's news to me. If you want to look at rape, look not to Haven Monahan but to Rotherham and the Color of Crime. And history of slavery, slavery has been eradicated in the USA for what now, over a hundred years? A brief blip compared to what is still going on in MENA and Africa, as it has for many hundreds of years now. Can someone be knowledgeable enough to cite Steve Sailer still be so wilfully ignorant?

    As for white men being the dominant way of disambiguating the reason for the success of the West, look back at the Apollo program footage. If it wasn't white men making America great at that time, who was? Where were the black super-programmers of media fiction, or the East Asian and Hindu H1Bs that we supposedly need in a neverending geyser to drive us forward? And look at the demographics at the time. It was only whites. And the blacks were as they always are, a burden. Take a look at the history books, who pioneered science and technology? White men, with rare exception.

    I agree with Cowen when he states that Steve Sailer has been the most significant neo-reactionary thinker, and feel priveleged to have contributed to the discourse here.

    As for the ripping of the fabric and rhetoric of society, and the so-called cruelness, the obnoxious, self-pleased glee with which our views are held - get used to it Cowen. After being shat on for the last 50 years, causing us to forego having children (no different to actual deaths when it comes to the health of our kind) in order to provide for a host of ungrateful parasites including yourself, all the while hearing about how horrible we are, the fruits of our intellect and good will being used to furnish the population booms of non-whites all over the globe... the worm is turning. To figure out why Trump is ascendent you have only to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

  44. He meant so much to us in East Africa-as children we grew up adoring him. I didn’t realize he was once controversial until I came to the US, and am happy that he eventually won over most Americans regardless of race or politics.

    I’ve always thought it was touching how America treated him tenderly and respectfully as he his health slowly deteriorated.

  45. Check out these photos of Cassius Clay at his parent’s home in Louisville in the 1960’s. Nice house. His father was a damn good oil painter! Might be interesting to know more about his parent’s abilities and how his theatrics may have had some genetic roots.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/05/us/cnnphotos-muhammad-ali-rare-pictures/

  46. @Anonymous
    Here you go, Steve, some nice taboo race talk from Ali in a 1971 interview. Really disturbing for you, I know, because race-mixing fears are beneath you, right?

    Well, Ali was one of those anti race-mixing cavemen from yesteryear. Sort of like the Jews who bought full page ads in the New York Times (until the late 1990's) begging other Jews to stop mixing with goyim.

    --------snip

    M.A. – Life is too short for me to be catching hell for something like that, I’d rather be with my own, and have a beautiful daughter, beautiful wife, both look like me and we are all happy and I don’t have no trouble. I ain’t that in love with no women to go through all that hell, there’s no one woman that good. You understand?

    Interviewer – I understand, I do understand, I think it’s sad ….

    M.A. – (Interrupting) It ain’t sad because I want my child to look like me, every intelligent person wants their child to look like them, I’m sad because I want to blot out my race and lose my identity? Chinese love Chinese they love the little slanty eye, pretty brown skin babies. Pakistani love their culture, Jewish people love their culture, a lot of catholic wanna be with Catholics and want the religion to stay the same… who would want to spot up yourself and kill your race? You’re a hater of your people if you don’t want to stay who you are. You ashamed of what god made you? You think he made a mistake when he made you?

    Interviewer – I think that’s a philosophy of despair, I really do

    M.A. – Philosophy of despair? Here let me tell you, listen. No woman on this earth, not even a black woman in Muslim countries can please me and cook for me and socialize with me like my American black woman, no woman, and last is a white woman… can really identify with me and my feelings, and the way I act, and the way I talk…. it’s just nature, you can do what you want, but it’s nature to want to be with your own, I want to be with my own.

    Replies: @Truth, @James N. Kennett

    I would estimate that this is the 15 time this sliver of Ali’s life has been brought up here, this week.

  47. The idea that someone that verbal quick was that low IQ is the best evidence I’ve seen that IQ tests might be culturally bias.

    I suspect the most obvious explanation some combination of the test reflexing poor reading skills (which is different than low intelligence) and his complete lack of interest in taking the test.

    I don’t buy that being an accurate reflection of his intelligence at all.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Phil



    someone that verbal quick

     

    What's with all the people amazed at the magic negro's speaking abilities? Were they raised by wolves and this is the first time they've seen another human being speaking?

    Replies: @Ttjy

  48. @SFG
    OT, but Kristol's guy backed out:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436222/david-french-not-running-president

    No idea whether he thinks Kristol is useless, doesn't want to be disloyal to the party, or is afraid of opposition researchers finding out about that parking ticket he didn't pay 20 years ago. Sounds vaguely like people were going after his wife and kids and he didn't feel like dealing with it. Who knows?

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Judah Benjamin Hur, @Ed

    (((Kristol))) is a traitor to the US. Although one maybe shouldn’t have otherwise.

  49. @flyingtiger
    I stopped drinking because I have to reduce my sugar intake. I bought a beer to celebrate the death of that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.) The only other exception was for the death of General Giap. In both cases I said, it should have happened sooner.

    The bible is a well written and well organized document. There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained. The Koran is a mess and contradicts itself so many times. Only a fool can believe the Koran.

    Replies: @anon, @AndrewR, @Eustace Tilley (not), @Bill Jones, @ChaseBizzy

    You simply radiate the love of Christ.

  50. @cthulhu
    @Steve Sailer

    Roger Staubach did one year in Vietnam, but not in combat; he was at a supply base/port. Got back to the States about six months before the Tet Offensive.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Bugg

    Bob Kalsu played for the Bills so technically it was the AFL-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kalsu

  51. @International Jew

    wants to drown him in a bathos of sainthood
     
    Bathos or pathos?

    I wasn't sure what bathos meant and so looked it up. Complicated word...

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    I think the author was aiming at a punchline: he probably had that “drowning in a bath”/”drowning in a bathos” gag in mind for a long time. Not to say that it really works here.

    Bathos I have always considered to be an attempt at pathos that fails, usually in the form of some ridiculous and inappropriate sentimentality. Thus Oscar Wilde’s famous quip about Dickens’ “Old Curiosity Shop” – “One must have a heart of stone to read the death of little Nell without laughing.”
    What the author means by bathos here is that the canonization of St Ali is basically fake and phony.

    Of course one’s bathos is another’s profound sentiment. I notice this often when watching things on DVD with my wife; something or other will move her to tears and I am sitting there rolling my eyes. And I’m sure there are things that move me to tears that others think are ludicrous.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @SPMoore8


    Bathos I have always considered to be an attempt at pathos that fails
     
    That's a little narrow. The classic example of bathos is Don Quixote.

    Pathos:tragedy :: bathos:comedy
  52. @anonymous
    "...This guilt arises largely from Ali’s stance against the Vietnam War, a war we have come to see as at best misguided and as at worst evil..."

    One of the bigger US blunders of the Cold War was trying to fight the Vietnam war without mobilizing and instead trying to fight the war using each year's draftees. The fear seems to have been that if we mobilized the Austo-Hungarian Empire would mobilize, or something, leading to escalating mobilizations that would lead to WWIII. Alternatively, if we had professionalized the military earlier (not likely) and fought the war with career soldiers, like we do today, people might not have even realized there was a war on.

    I didn't know Nation of Islam:


    "...In 1942, during World War II, Elijah Muhammad was charged and convicted of violating the Selective Service Act and jailed. Many other Nation of Islam members were charged for the same thing, as NOI opposes serving in the United States military..."

     

    Also:


    "...The NOI obtained substantial funds from then Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi ...Libya channeled funds through the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) based in Canada to a Libyan intelligence front in Washington. The money was provided to finance trips to Tripoli by the NOI and American radicals, according to a Canadian parliamentary investigation and a prosecution by the U.S. Attorney's Office in northern Virginia...

    ..."At least one gathering attended by Farrakhan in Libya... offered training seminars on weapons and explosives."..."

     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Brutusale

    Steve, as someone who lived in Chicago, I’m surprised that Steve didn’t mention the Libya connection with Chi’s Blackstone Ranger/Crypto-Muslim spinoff, the El Rukn’s.

    That was a really freaky “intersectionality” of black street gangs, NOI mysticism, terrorism, Ghaddafi weirdness, and the usual “community organizing”. This documentary shows how over the top they were.

  53. I don’t hold his “draft dodging” against him. After all, who wanted to go and die in that useless meat grinder? Even though someone as famous as him probably wouldn’t have been sent to active combat. Remember, Elvis was drafted, too, and from what I understand, his duties in service were rather plum. Even though when Elvis was in, we weren’t involved in any kind of hot conflict.

    But as far as his reasoning for not wanting to go to ‘Nam? He needed to miss us with that by five hundred yards.

    First off, wherever Muslims go, there always seems to be war or terrorism. Some peaceful religion, huh?

    Second, his draft status was changed to 1-A in February 1966. Contra his notion that he was being sent to “fight” for a racist country, by that time, the Federal government had legislatively passed a major civil rights act which was already being enforced, a major voting rights act which was already being enforced, we had kritarchily dismantled formal school segregation, and two different Presidents had issued two different executive orders which got the ball rolling on affirmative action.

    No, he just didn’t want to lose his athletic prime. Turns out he did anyway.

    • Agree: Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @countenance

    Contra his notion that he was being sent to “fight” for a racist country. . .

    No civil rights laws that are passed, no affirmative action, no constant praising of blacks and shaming of whites, no suppression of facts that would damage the image of blacks, no black president elected, will ever persuade blacks that this is no longer a racist country, so no use pursuing that line of argument.

  54. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It was probably impossible not to draft him due to his visibility. The self-announced greatest athlete was all over the place and was obviously a healthy young man yet he was exempted due to supposedly being unqualified. He’s probably why they lowered the standards. How could it be justified to draft the auto mechanic’s son yet give Clay a pass? The NOI was not Islam but a heretical cult centered around the personality of the ‘messenger’ Elijah Muhammad. Malcolm X was murdered by them after he realized the scandalous nature of the behind the scenes goings-on of the leader and was slowly beginning to expose it.

  55. That guy is a terrific writer. Thanks Steve.

  56. @mq
    Ali scored a 16 on the Army intelligence tests, indicating that he had a low IQ. A man of his wit and quickness could not be that dumb, we protest. Yet I think the score was an honest reflection of Ali’s mental abilities. Ali was not literate, nor was he analytical. When he was younger he could successfully debate those who were much smarter, or at least had read more books, because he had the zealot’s set of answers to life’s questions. His mind worked through formulas and cliches.

    In other words -- he was very smart, and used his mind very successfully, but he was not smart in the way that IQ tests measure. IQ tests are an achievement test not an overall intelligence measure. In that sense, they were an accurate test of his mental abilities but not a measure of his intelligence.

    Replies: @biz, @e, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Nope. IQ test are an effective measure of the general intelligence factor g, which is in turn the best quantification that we have of general intelligence.

    • Replies: @MQ
    @biz

    LOL, no. 'g' is a social science artifact, the product of a couple of psychometricians playing games with factor analysis of written test responses. It corresponds to no clear biological mechanism of intelligence in the brain. It obviously is (by construction) connected to certain significant abilities (the ability to get correct answers on certain kinds of written tests), I wouldn't argue with that at all. But to identify it with intelligence full stop is a bit silly and shows a lack of experience of life. Intelligence encompasses a wide range of abilities involving the use of the human brain to plan, conceptualize, and organize your activities and communication in a way that is effective for achieving your goals. Going toe to toe with William Buckley for an hour of extemporaneous debate and absolutely holding your own is a fine indicator of 'intelligence', every bit as good as 'g'.

  57. After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    @PiltdownMan



    ...Attica prison ... where all the black prisoners were shot ...
    ...
    [poem:] "... to die fight'n to be free
    ...
    let me die by bein' black ... "

     

    LOL. All those black rapists and murderers in prison are really freedom fighters imprisoned and later killed just because they were black. Attica! Attica! Black lives matter!

    So he thinks racist whites just round up blacks for no reason and put them in prison? Modern day slavery. Maybe we should release all black prisoners and hand them an AK-47? Sounds kind of retarded to me.

    BTW, this is why there are "IQ fetishists". Some propagandist comes along, preaches some silly idea like the one above, and the left half of the bell curve will believe it. They can cause much damage to society.

    Four-year-olds can memorize songs like Bingo, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star etc., it's compatable with having the mental age of a twelve-year-old.

    Replies: @MQ

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @PiltdownMan



    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…

     

    Some excerpts of the poem he recited.


    Muhammad Ali recites a poem during a interview in Ireland AMAZING
    ...
    Battle far from all I see
    To die fightin' to be free
    What more fitting end to be
    [unintelligible]
    ... lingering until I'm dead
    ...
    Let me die by bein' black
    ...
    If theres any [unintelligible] I've got
    Kill me here on the spot
    Better far my fight to wage
    Now while my blood boils with rage
    ..
    Makin' peace is to live a lie

     

    If you liked that, you'll also like this poem in a simalar vein.


    SNL Eddie Murphy: Kill my landlord

    Give it here by Tyrone Red

    Darkly lonely on a summer night
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    Watchdog barking, do he bite?
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    Go in his window, break his neck
    Then his house I start to wreck
    Got no reason, what the heck?
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    K-I-L-L my landlord

     

    Replies: @V Vega

  58. I fault this article for diminishing the role of Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad in both Ali’s life and that of Black America. Their’s was a message of black self reliance and independence. Maybe the supernatural stuff was a part of the NOI because Blacks were just incapable of building their own society. Violence and doctrine being necessary to provide structure to the movement. But still, I think these ideas and efforts of both Malcolm and Elijah were significant. And they certainly shaped Cassius Clay from early in his adult life.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Steve Richter

    There's a great passage in John Updike's The Coup in which the future African leader, then in college in America, said this in a discussion with his friends about Black Muslim dogma:


    "It takes a mountain of myth to make even a grain of difference. It takes Mr. Yacub and the Isle of Patmos to make a man in the ghetto put on a suit. Oscar, you say Allah showed up in Detroit in 1930 in the person of a raincoat peddler called W. D. Fard and then disappeared in 1934; the Christians say He showed up in Jerusalem in the year 30 and then disappeared in the year 33. What is the result of these incredible rumors? Slaves lift their heads a fraction of an inch higher. Is this enough result? It is. Nothing less will produce any result at all. The dictatorship of the proletariat, the divinity of this or that itinerant--the crucial question isn't Can you prove it? but Does it give us a handle on the reality that otherwise would overwhelm us?"
     
  59. @anonymous
    "...This guilt arises largely from Ali’s stance against the Vietnam War, a war we have come to see as at best misguided and as at worst evil..."

    One of the bigger US blunders of the Cold War was trying to fight the Vietnam war without mobilizing and instead trying to fight the war using each year's draftees. The fear seems to have been that if we mobilized the Austo-Hungarian Empire would mobilize, or something, leading to escalating mobilizations that would lead to WWIII. Alternatively, if we had professionalized the military earlier (not likely) and fought the war with career soldiers, like we do today, people might not have even realized there was a war on.

    I didn't know Nation of Islam:


    "...In 1942, during World War II, Elijah Muhammad was charged and convicted of violating the Selective Service Act and jailed. Many other Nation of Islam members were charged for the same thing, as NOI opposes serving in the United States military..."

     

    Also:


    "...The NOI obtained substantial funds from then Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi ...Libya channeled funds through the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) based in Canada to a Libyan intelligence front in Washington. The money was provided to finance trips to Tripoli by the NOI and American radicals, according to a Canadian parliamentary investigation and a prosecution by the U.S. Attorney's Office in northern Virginia...

    ..."At least one gathering attended by Farrakhan in Libya... offered training seminars on weapons and explosives."..."

     

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @yaqub the mad scientist, @Brutusale

    For the youngsters here, BCCI was quite the criminal enterprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International

    • Replies: @snorlax
    @Brutusale

    There was a forgettable thriller movie a few years ago loosely based on that story; the villainous bankers were all stale, pale males of course.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy

  60. @TangoMan
    OT- Time Magazine has an interesting article on assortative mating and dives deep into Jewish and Mormon communities.

    Multiple studies show that college-educated Americans are increasingly reluctant to marry those lacking a college degree. This bias is having a devastating impact on the dating market for college-educated women. Why? According to 2012 population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, there are 5.5 million college-educated women in the U.S. between the ages of 22 and 29 versus 4.1 million such men. That’s four women for every three men. Among college grads age 30 to 39, there are 7.4 million women versus 6.0 million men—five women for every four men. . . .

    According to the ARIS study, there are now 150 Mormon women for every 100 Mormon men in the state of Utah—a 50 percent oversupply of women. . . .

    Secular-style dating is rare in the Orthodox community in which Elefant lives. Most marriages are loosely arranged—“guided” is probably a better word—by matchmakers such as Elefant. The shadchan’s job has been made exceedingly difficult, she said, by a mysterious increase in the number of unmarried women within the Orthodox community. When Elefant attended Jewish high school 30 years ago, “there were maybe three girls that didn’t get married by the time they were twenty or twenty-one,” she said. “Today, if you look at the girls who graduated five years ago, there are probably thirty girls who are not yet married. Overall, there are thousands of unmarried girls in their late twenties. It’s total chaos.” . . .

    The Utah LDS church was in fact 52 percent female as recently as 1990. Since 1990, however, the Mormon gender gap in Utah has widened dramatically—from a gender ratio of 52:48 female to male in 1990 to 60:40 female to male in 2008, according to a study coauthored by ARIS researchers Rick Phillips, Ryan Cragun, and Barry Kosmin. In other words, the LDS church in Utah now has three women for every two men.

     

    Replies: @27 year old, @Big Bill, @AnotherDad

    I think the Mormons have a solution for that

  61. Who are some of the other Black Muslims of noteworthy accomplishment?

  62. Maybe I live in a bubble, but no one actually seems to care that much about Ali’s death. Not like they did about Prince or David Bowie.

    • Replies: @John Mansfield
    @Andrew Jackson

    "Maybe I live in a bubble, but no one actually seems to care that much about Ali’s death. Not like they did about Prince or David Bowie."

    Maybe you live in the bubble of people younger than 50. I caught a couple local sports radio guys talking about how Ali was before their time, even before their time as children. It's that way with any sports star who lives to old age and dies forty years or more after his feats as a young man. A musician's greatest hits will have more circulation in the decades after his prime than an athlete's.

  63. It is indeed interesting that a Professor of Black Studies has so much insight and is neither a race hustler nor a promoter of dumbed-down ideas.

    Perhaps the subject isn’t as bad as many of us believe.

    • Replies: @JimL
    @James N. Kennett

    He may be the most legitimate scholar in the entire field.

  64. @TangoMan
    OT- Time Magazine has an interesting article on assortative mating and dives deep into Jewish and Mormon communities.

    Multiple studies show that college-educated Americans are increasingly reluctant to marry those lacking a college degree. This bias is having a devastating impact on the dating market for college-educated women. Why? According to 2012 population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, there are 5.5 million college-educated women in the U.S. between the ages of 22 and 29 versus 4.1 million such men. That’s four women for every three men. Among college grads age 30 to 39, there are 7.4 million women versus 6.0 million men—five women for every four men. . . .

    According to the ARIS study, there are now 150 Mormon women for every 100 Mormon men in the state of Utah—a 50 percent oversupply of women. . . .

    Secular-style dating is rare in the Orthodox community in which Elefant lives. Most marriages are loosely arranged—“guided” is probably a better word—by matchmakers such as Elefant. The shadchan’s job has been made exceedingly difficult, she said, by a mysterious increase in the number of unmarried women within the Orthodox community. When Elefant attended Jewish high school 30 years ago, “there were maybe three girls that didn’t get married by the time they were twenty or twenty-one,” she said. “Today, if you look at the girls who graduated five years ago, there are probably thirty girls who are not yet married. Overall, there are thousands of unmarried girls in their late twenties. It’s total chaos.” . . .

    The Utah LDS church was in fact 52 percent female as recently as 1990. Since 1990, however, the Mormon gender gap in Utah has widened dramatically—from a gender ratio of 52:48 female to male in 1990 to 60:40 female to male in 2008, according to a study coauthored by ARIS researchers Rick Phillips, Ryan Cragun, and Barry Kosmin. In other words, the LDS church in Utah now has three women for every two men.

     

    Replies: @27 year old, @Big Bill, @AnotherDad

    That Mormon gender gap is amazing!

    For heaven’s sake, here is a population of women who want nothing more than to make babies like crazy, submit to their men, and take care of a home surrounded by like-minded people in a warm, supportive, patriarchal, family-oriented culture.

    And they cannot find husbands? What on earth is going on?

    Is there any Mormon that can enlighten us, please?

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @Big Bill

    I'm not a Mormon but there are many unappealing aspects of the religion for men. Sure Mormon men are priest and will one day be God on their own planet, but Mormon life on Earth is fairly emasculating. They can only have sex in marriage. Can't smoke or drink alcohol, coffee, or most teas. Young men are heavily pressured to go on missions, which they have to pay for themselves. Sometimes men lose their faith on missions while living outside of the Mormon bubble.

    The religion is very demanding of their time. They don't just volunteer but are "called" into many activities. Need to consult with and confess to the bishop. Must tithe 10 percent or lose good standing in the church and lose temple privileges. BYU professors have been fired for not tithing. Monthly home visits from church members to see if everything is OK. Pressured to have children even if not financially feasible. Some men leave to live as homosexuals.

  65. @anon
    @flyingtiger

    Virgin birth and Resurrection are "easily explained"; Really?

    All religions need faith; else they would be science.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained.

    This is a situation where the comma or lack thereof before “which” changes the meaning entirely…

  66. @Steve Sailer
    @Das

    We're any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?

    I can recall athletes in the 1960s who were in the Reserves and played part time, like Elgin Baylor and Rod Carew.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Daniel H, @Justpassingby

    We’re any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?

    Weren’t the sons of Jerry Lewis and/or Dean Martin in the service during Vietnam?

    IIRC, Garry Maddox’s nickname was Sarge.

    • Replies: @tony_k
    @Justpassingby

    Gary Matthews nickname was Sarge, not Garry Maddox.

    Replies: @Justpassingby

    , @Former Darfur
    @Justpassingby

    Several B and C list celebs and music figures were drafted in the Vietnam era.

    "Keith", a one hit wonder , "98.6 Degrees", famously got hauled off by the Army for draft evasion in the midst of a tour. But for the most part, the rock music figures we are familiar with who were subject to Selective Service famously went to some lengths to avoid the draft, Iggy Pop, Bruce Springsteen and Ted Nugent being three famous examples. For the most part, those willing to participate in some public degradation of themselves as being crazy or flagrantly homosexual were simply declared unsuitable.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Truth
    @Justpassingby

    "IIRC, Garry Maddox’s nickname was Sarge."

    "Two thirds of the world is covered by water...the other third by Garry Maddox..."

  67. @TangoMan
    Tyler Cowan praises Steve Sailer as the leading neo-reactionary thinker of our times.

    Replies: @International Jew, @SFG, @Desiderius

    Tyler Cowan praises Steve Sailer as the leading neo-reactionary thinker of our times.

    Sailer’s not NRx.

    He’s the Lebanon, KS of the American Polity.

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    @Desiderius

    Nailed it.

  68. OT-

    Scott Adams (Dilbert guy) who has thus far been being coy “I don’t support Trump, but I admire his persuasion techniques” has finally made an explicit endorsement for President:

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145456082991/my-endorsement-for-president-of-the-united-states

    If Clinton successfully pairs Trump with Hitler in your mind – as she is doing – and loses anyway, about a quarter of the country will think it is morally justified to assassinate their own leader. I too would feel that way if an actual Hitler came to power in this country. I would join the resistance and try to take out the Hitler-like leader. You should do the same. No one wants an actual President Hitler.

    So I’ve decided to endorse Hillary Clinton for President, for my personal safety. Trump supporters don’t have any bad feelings about patriotic Americans such as myself, so I’ll be safe from that crowd. But Clinton supporters have convinced me – and here I am being 100% serious – that my safety is at risk if I am seen as supportive of Trump. So I’m taking the safe way out and endorsing Hillary Clinton for president.

  69. @SPMoore8
    @International Jew

    I think the author was aiming at a punchline: he probably had that "drowning in a bath"/"drowning in a bathos" gag in mind for a long time. Not to say that it really works here.

    Bathos I have always considered to be an attempt at pathos that fails, usually in the form of some ridiculous and inappropriate sentimentality. Thus Oscar Wilde's famous quip about Dickens' "Old Curiosity Shop" - “One must have a heart of stone to read the death of little Nell without laughing.”
    What the author means by bathos here is that the canonization of St Ali is basically fake and phony.

    Of course one's bathos is another's profound sentiment. I notice this often when watching things on DVD with my wife; something or other will move her to tears and I am sitting there rolling my eyes. And I'm sure there are things that move me to tears that others think are ludicrous.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Bathos I have always considered to be an attempt at pathos that fails

    That’s a little narrow. The classic example of bathos is Don Quixote.

    Pathos:tragedy :: bathos:comedy

  70. @Anonymous
    Here you go, Steve, some nice taboo race talk from Ali in a 1971 interview. Really disturbing for you, I know, because race-mixing fears are beneath you, right?

    Well, Ali was one of those anti race-mixing cavemen from yesteryear. Sort of like the Jews who bought full page ads in the New York Times (until the late 1990's) begging other Jews to stop mixing with goyim.

    --------snip

    M.A. – Life is too short for me to be catching hell for something like that, I’d rather be with my own, and have a beautiful daughter, beautiful wife, both look like me and we are all happy and I don’t have no trouble. I ain’t that in love with no women to go through all that hell, there’s no one woman that good. You understand?

    Interviewer – I understand, I do understand, I think it’s sad ….

    M.A. – (Interrupting) It ain’t sad because I want my child to look like me, every intelligent person wants their child to look like them, I’m sad because I want to blot out my race and lose my identity? Chinese love Chinese they love the little slanty eye, pretty brown skin babies. Pakistani love their culture, Jewish people love their culture, a lot of catholic wanna be with Catholics and want the religion to stay the same… who would want to spot up yourself and kill your race? You’re a hater of your people if you don’t want to stay who you are. You ashamed of what god made you? You think he made a mistake when he made you?

    Interviewer – I think that’s a philosophy of despair, I really do

    M.A. – Philosophy of despair? Here let me tell you, listen. No woman on this earth, not even a black woman in Muslim countries can please me and cook for me and socialize with me like my American black woman, no woman, and last is a white woman… can really identify with me and my feelings, and the way I act, and the way I talk…. it’s just nature, you can do what you want, but it’s nature to want to be with your own, I want to be with my own.

    Replies: @Truth, @James N. Kennett

    Well, Ali was one of those anti race-mixing cavemen from yesteryear. Sort of like the Jews who bought full page ads in the New York Times (until the late 1990′s) begging other Jews to stop mixing with goyim.

    I wonder if anyone can provide links to copies of these ads? My (admittedly brief) attempts with Google have been unsuccessful, although this page gives a specific date:

    https://archive.org/stream/ACritiqueOfRace-mixing/CritiqueOfRace-mixing_djvu.txt

    A full page advertisement on June 21, 1983 in the New
    York Times, described intermarriage as a ‘plague’ and an ‘epidemic’.

    The NYT archives on the web appear not to include advertisements.

    Here is a newspaper article a month later:

    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1983/07/29/page/2/article/who-is-a-jew-issue-may-split-judaism/index.html

    “It pains me to see everything laid out for Christian readers of the New York Times,” said one prominent rabbi.

  71. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    A bunch of Black Muslims murdered at least 15 white people in Northern California in the 1970s Zebra Murders:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

    Replies: @Romanian, @David In TN, @Jonathan Revusky

    Steve,

    The so-called Zebra Murders were way worse, and I mean way worse than is generally known. In addition to the San Francisco killings, there were some 30 murders during that period called the “East Bay Killings,” which were believed to be by NOI types from Alameda County.

    See the book, “Killing the Messenger,” by Thomas Peele. It’s mainly about the 2007 murder of black journalist Chauncey Bailey but Chapter 12 covers the Zebra Murders along with the others in the area during 1970-74.. There were also some in Los Angeles County.

    In October 1973, there was a meeting of California law enforcement officials in Oakland. They had tracked over 70 black on white murders in California the last few years, each of which had a well dressed young black man as the suspect. The NOI were thought responsible.

    That month the “Zebra Murders” began in San Francisco. Clark Howard’s 1979 book was part investigative journalism, part novel and/or New Journalism. Howard threw out various numbers for victims, up in the hundreds in California, but didn’t provide data despite studying California Attorney General’s office records.

    A comprehensive book on the subject has yet to be written.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    The NOI were thought responsible.
     
    Out of curiosity, did they ever state what the motive of these crimes was?

    Replies: @David In TN

    , @anonymous
    @David In TN

    Illinois also had the De Mau Mau gang who killed perhaps a dozen whites in 1972. Lots of spin-offs seem to have occurred.

  72. @Steve Sailer
    Okay, doing more research, it turns out that a couple of pro football players were killed in Vietnam, which I had never heard about until now.

    1. James Robert "Bob" Kalsu (April 13, 1945 – July 21, 1970) was an All-American tackle at the University of Oklahoma and an eighth-round selection in the 1968 NFL/AFL draft by the Buffalo Bills of the American Football League.[1]

    Kalsu was a starting guard for the Bills in 1968. He played the entire season and was the Bills' team rookie-of-the-year.[2] Following the 1968 season, to satisfy his Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) obligation, he entered the U.S. Army as a second lieutenant and arrived in Vietnam in November 1969 as part of the 101st Airborne Division. He was killed in action on July 21, 1970, when his unit came under enemy mortar fire at FSB Ripcord near the A Shau Valley.[1][3] His family, out of respect, refused to talk in detail about the circumstances surrounding his death.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kalsu

    Long unrecognized as the first NFL player to be killed in action in the Vietnam War, Don Steinbrunner was honored by the Browns on November 14, 2004.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Steinbrunner

    So, I was generalizing too much.

    It could be that more than a few pro athletes served in Vietnam, but not much attention has been paid to Vietnam, unlike WWII. I realize now that I don't really have a good picture of the facts of the matter.

    Replies: @The Only Catholic Unionist, @David In TN

    Steve,

    Remember the email exchange we had several years ago about Los Angeles Rams wide receiver Willie Miller, who played for the Rams in the late 70’s and early 80’s? He was a small, clever, hands and moves type.

    Miller was written up a few times as a Vietnam veteran, even by the New York Times believe it or not during the 1978 playoffs. You might find the NYT article by a Google search.

    A while back during an email exchange with a football historian (he’s published a book) I asked him if he could name four men who had played running back in the NFL and at one time or another served in Vietnam.

    He only knew Rocky Bleier. One of the other three was pretty well known. The others are not.

  73. @Anonymous
    Bottom line is Ali was another black icon forced onto white America consciousness by the Propaganda Machine.

    Both Liston fights were fixed. What a charade.

    His Jewish handler Cosell guided the Anti-Sportsmanship, Anti-Christian jerk boy to media stardom.

    Funny how media Jews are obsessed with black sports stardom but only stardom outside of Israel! Within Israel a virtual boycott on black sports stardom.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Judah Benjamin Hur, @Milo Minderbinder

    Funny how some people get all their news from Stormfront.

    p.s. google “That little monkey gets loose”

  74. @SFG
    OT, but Kristol's guy backed out:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436222/david-french-not-running-president

    No idea whether he thinks Kristol is useless, doesn't want to be disloyal to the party, or is afraid of opposition researchers finding out about that parking ticket he didn't pay 20 years ago. Sounds vaguely like people were going after his wife and kids and he didn't feel like dealing with it. Who knows?

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Judah Benjamin Hur, @Ed

    Before he decided not to run, he reportedly said, “They call me mad, but one day when the history of America is written, they will mark my name well…David French!”

  75. @mq
    Ali scored a 16 on the Army intelligence tests, indicating that he had a low IQ. A man of his wit and quickness could not be that dumb, we protest. Yet I think the score was an honest reflection of Ali’s mental abilities. Ali was not literate, nor was he analytical. When he was younger he could successfully debate those who were much smarter, or at least had read more books, because he had the zealot’s set of answers to life’s questions. His mind worked through formulas and cliches.

    In other words -- he was very smart, and used his mind very successfully, but he was not smart in the way that IQ tests measure. IQ tests are an achievement test not an overall intelligence measure. In that sense, they were an accurate test of his mental abilities but not a measure of his intelligence.

    Replies: @biz, @e, @Hippopotamusdrome

    IQ tests are an achievement test not an overall intelligence measure.

    You learn that from some sociology class?

    You’re wrong, very wrong.

  76. @SFG
    OT, but Kristol's guy backed out:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436222/david-french-not-running-president

    No idea whether he thinks Kristol is useless, doesn't want to be disloyal to the party, or is afraid of opposition researchers finding out about that parking ticket he didn't pay 20 years ago. Sounds vaguely like people were going after his wife and kids and he didn't feel like dealing with it. Who knows?

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Judah Benjamin Hur, @Ed

    Why submit your wife & children to what is certain to be a torrid of abuse for what at best would be a gimmick?

    The minute this idea was flouted they called his marriage into question. It’s not worth it. Let Kristol run.

  77. @Brutusale
    @anonymous

    For the youngsters here, BCCI was quite the criminal enterprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International

    Replies: @snorlax

    There was a forgettable thriller movie a few years ago loosely based on that story; the villainous bankers were all stale, pale males of course.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    @snorlax

    I remember the pretty cool shootout scene at the Guggenheim, but absolutely nothing else about that movie.

  78. @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    A bunch of Black Muslims murdered at least 15 white people in Northern California in the 1970s Zebra Murders:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

    Replies: @Romanian, @David In TN, @Jonathan Revusky

    1970s Zebra Murders

    Mr. Sailer, have you ever looked into the deep history of this time period? For example, does the term Cointelpro ring a bell for you?

    At that point in time, State agents had infiltrated every anti-System group. It was basically impossible for any groups, whether the Black Panthers or the KKK for the matter, to really do anything significant without the FBI knowing about it. So, for me, what is odd in this Zebra Murders narrative is that they are able to go on a killing spree over a period of half a year and, seemingly, the authorities have no clue what is going on and are helpless to put a stop to it. For half a year.

    Well, quite frankly, I do not claim to know what happened. What I find, though, is that if you ever seriously investigate cases like these, you almost invariably end up concluding that what really happened is something very different from the official narrative.

    By the way, a similar analysis applies to these recent terrorist events in France (and Belgium). The milieu that these supposed terrorists operate in is completely infiltrated by agents of the State. It is, to all intents and purposes, impossible for these people to be planning and carrying out these terrorist acts right under the noses of the authorities.

    I don’t follow what you write that closely, but you seem to be part of a group of people here who just assume that whatever the official narrative on such events is necessarily true.

    Well, Mr. Sailer, maybe you should wise up a bit and realize that, whatever the official story is…. it ain’t necessarily so….

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Richard Nixon was president during The Zebra Murders. Are you saying Richard Nixon wanted to exterminate the White race? After all the POTUS is the boss of the FBI, DOJ, DEA, and the CIA. He is above them in the government food chain.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    , @David In TN
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Well, have you bothered to read Howard's book? Or the self-serving 2006 book by former SFPD Chief Earl Sanders?

    NOI members were murdering white people for the sadistic pleasure of it concluded the professional investigators. It was obvious to anyone with an IQ at room temperature.

    Earl Sanders said it was impossible to place black police officers or any other undercover agents inside a NOI mosque. They were too suspicious. And it wasn't "half a year," it was nearly four years throughout California.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    , @Truth
    @Jonathan Revusky

    "Well, Mr. Sailer, maybe you should wise up a bit and realize that, whatever the official story is…. it ain’t necessarily so…."

    you hit it directly on the eyeball there Padna...that is, unless Steve is "one of 'them'" (wink).

  79. @Desiderius
    @TangoMan


    Tyler Cowan praises Steve Sailer as the leading neo-reactionary thinker of our times.
     
    Sailer's not NRx.

    He's the Lebanon, KS of the American Polity.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist

    Nailed it.

  80. @David In TN
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    The so-called Zebra Murders were way worse, and I mean way worse than is generally known. In addition to the San Francisco killings, there were some 30 murders during that period called the "East Bay Killings," which were believed to be by NOI types from Alameda County.

    See the book, "Killing the Messenger," by Thomas Peele. It's mainly about the 2007 murder of black journalist Chauncey Bailey but Chapter 12 covers the Zebra Murders along with the others in the area during 1970-74.. There were also some in Los Angeles County.

    In October 1973, there was a meeting of California law enforcement officials in Oakland. They had tracked over 70 black on white murders in California the last few years, each of which had a well dressed young black man as the suspect. The NOI were thought responsible.

    That month the "Zebra Murders" began in San Francisco. Clark Howard's 1979 book was part investigative journalism, part novel and/or New Journalism. Howard threw out various numbers for victims, up in the hundreds in California, but didn't provide data despite studying California Attorney General's office records.

    A comprehensive book on the subject has yet to be written.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky, @anonymous

    The NOI were thought responsible.

    Out of curiosity, did they ever state what the motive of these crimes was?

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Jonathan Revusky

    "Out of curiosity, did they ever state what the motive of these crimes was?"

    At the 1975-76 trial of the San Francisco Zebra killers, the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings. It was the longest trial in California history at the time.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

  81. Totally off-topic,

    From the country that brought us foot-binding:

    Chinese women compete to be as thin as an A4 piece of paper
    Craze that challenges women to pose behind a vertical A4 sheet of paper with their waist not visible either side has been widely criticised

    A new craze in China that led to women posing with A4 pieces of paper to demonstrate how thin they are has been criticised and mocked on social media.

    The hashtag #A4Waist has had more than 110 million views and more than 100,000 comments on Weibo, China’s equivalent of Twitter.

    In several posts, women triumphantly posted images of themselves behind a vertical piece of A4 – their waist not visible on either side.

    “Let me show mine too!” said one poster, who had no trouble conforming to the demand. “Does this count as an A4 waist?” she asked.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/23/chinese-women-compete-to-be-as-thin-as-an-a4-piece-of-paper

  82. @Steve Sailer
    @James Braxton

    Good question.

    Rocky Bleier was drafted after his rookie season in the NFL, and volunteered to go to Vietnam, where he was wounded. He returned to play in several Super Bowls. I can recall reading in the 1970s that he was the only NFL player who served in Vietnam.

    Replies: @cthulhu, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    In the ’70’s outside of Buffalo Bills Stadium there was a statue built to commemorate a fallen Bills player who had died in Vietnam.

    Rocky Bleier was also awarded the Purple Heart among other medals for his courageous service in Vietnam.

  83. OT: Vox claims that the stress of growing up in a poor area causes low IQ:

    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/6/11852640/cartoon-poor-neighborhoods

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @t

    I read the article, the range of IQ change was between 96 and 104, that is, about 1/2 an STD. That's not solving the problem.

    In my youth, I experienced poor and chaotic and also poor and well-ordered. The first is pretty bad, but it doesn't affect your IQ, it just makes it hard to concentrate, learn, read, or do your homework. The second is really no different than being well off, you just end up eating beans a lot.

    Putting black folks into wealthy neighborhoods isn't going to solve the problem of wealth inequality. With a lack of labor for average and below average IQ's, and the increasing demand for high IQ's, that inequality is going to remain -- among both blacks and whites. The challenge is providing meaningful, and rewarding (both financially and otherwise) work for all of these average and below average people. If we don't solve that problem we're going to have big problems down the road.

    , @Marc
    @t

    It's also what I call the magical zip code theory:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogKEo2CPtvA

    Reminds me of when the cause of black scholastic under-performance was determined to be old buildings and outdated text books. After a national push that updated urban schools across the country with negligible improvements, it's now the teachers fault per "Waiting For Superman."

    Replies: @Jefferson

  84. A mistake in Early’s article makes is lumping Christy Mathewson in with players who lost yrs of their prime/career due to wartime service.

    Christy Matthewson (1901-1916) was already retired from pitching in the NL. In 1917 he went to CIN to mange the Reds. HOF Ed Roush makes this clear in his chapter in the book “The Glory of Their Times”. Matty was through as a pitcher and his prime yrs were well behind him anyway. He volunteered to go overseas in WW1, was exposed to poisonous gas, and later died in 1925 due directly to this exposure during his service in WW1.

  85. @Anonymous
    Bottom line is Ali was another black icon forced onto white America consciousness by the Propaganda Machine.

    Both Liston fights were fixed. What a charade.

    His Jewish handler Cosell guided the Anti-Sportsmanship, Anti-Christian jerk boy to media stardom.

    Funny how media Jews are obsessed with black sports stardom but only stardom outside of Israel! Within Israel a virtual boycott on black sports stardom.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Judah Benjamin Hur, @Milo Minderbinder

    Former San Francisco Giant and Philadelphia Phillie Gary Maddox was drafted by the army before he made it to the big leagues.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Maddox

  86. Glossy says: • Website

    There was probably something both miraculous and absurd about having a theological discussion with an ex-prizefighter who couldn’t talk and had actually read very little of the Bible, a rich illustration of the uses and disadvantages of having athletes serve as all-purpose black icons.

    That’s almost inevitable though. The best Black boxers, sprinters, etc. are the best boxers, sprinters, etc. in the world, while the best Black intellectuals are mediocrities by White and Asian standards. So in a mixed society Black athletes will always be more notable than Black writers, even if this mixed society someday becomes less oriented towards pop culture.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  87. @t
    OT: Vox claims that the stress of growing up in a poor area causes low IQ:

    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/6/11852640/cartoon-poor-neighborhoods

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Marc

    I read the article, the range of IQ change was between 96 and 104, that is, about 1/2 an STD. That’s not solving the problem.

    In my youth, I experienced poor and chaotic and also poor and well-ordered. The first is pretty bad, but it doesn’t affect your IQ, it just makes it hard to concentrate, learn, read, or do your homework. The second is really no different than being well off, you just end up eating beans a lot.

    Putting black folks into wealthy neighborhoods isn’t going to solve the problem of wealth inequality. With a lack of labor for average and below average IQ’s, and the increasing demand for high IQ’s, that inequality is going to remain — among both blacks and whites. The challenge is providing meaningful, and rewarding (both financially and otherwise) work for all of these average and below average people. If we don’t solve that problem we’re going to have big problems down the road.

  88. Eustace Tilley (not) [AKA "Schiller/Nietzsche"] says:
    @flyingtiger
    I stopped drinking because I have to reduce my sugar intake. I bought a beer to celebrate the death of that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.) The only other exception was for the death of General Giap. In both cases I said, it should have happened sooner.

    The bible is a well written and well organized document. There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained. The Koran is a mess and contradicts itself so many times. Only a fool can believe the Koran.

    Replies: @anon, @AndrewR, @Eustace Tilley (not), @Bill Jones, @ChaseBizzy

    “…that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.)”

    Man, are you confused.

  89. @Justpassingby
    @Steve Sailer


    We’re any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?
     
    Weren't the sons of Jerry Lewis and/or Dean Martin in the service during Vietnam?

    IIRC, Garry Maddox's nickname was Sarge.

    Replies: @tony_k, @Former Darfur, @Truth

    Gary Matthews nickname was Sarge, not Garry Maddox.

    • Replies: @Justpassingby
    @tony_k

    My mistake. Thanks for the update.

  90. Ali scored a “16” in the Army IQ test and I understand that his IQ was rated at 78. See excerpt of an interview W.F. Buckley did of Ali in 1968 below. If the baseline is 100, I leave it to others to decide whether or not the manner in which Ali communicates is reflective of a person of considerably below average intelligence.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Connecticut Famer


    Ali scored a “16″ in the Army IQ test and I understand that his IQ was rated at 78. See excerpt of an interview W.F. Buckley did of Ali in 1968 below. If the baseline is 100,
     
    100 is the White American mean. The Black American mean is around 85. If a White person has an IQ of 78, he's messed up, highly dysfunctional. A Black person with an IQ of 78, in contrast, is just a little below normal (cf a White person with an IQ of 93).

    Replies: @Jefferson

    , @Jack D
    @Connecticut Famer

    It is well known that Ali never really learned to read fluently.

  91. Sean says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Das

    I know quite a few people who despise Ali's draft-dodging, but where they make a mistake is in calling him a coward. Ali was probably aware that he would never actually see combat. He probably would have done USO shows and exhibition bouts, and nothing more than that.

    Had he taken that route, it's interesting to theorize how his career would have ended up. He still would have lost a year or more of his prime to the military. He might have caught Frazier in 69 or 70 instead of 1971, before Frazier was at his peak. His first loss probably wouldn't have come until whenever he fought Ken Norton.

    Replies: @Sean

    Frazier was only two years older and in addition to having much slower reflexes, short arms (the left couldn’t be straightened because of an injury) he was four and a half inches shorter than Ali, and rather chubby. Ali didn’t dance because Frazier stomped forward to cut off the ring on him. Ali had never faced anyone with the heart or workrate of Frazier, who by the way employed Norton as a sparring partner and knocked him down repeatedly. Foreman ruined Frazier, who seemed willing to die in their bout. Ali never faced the real Foreman.

  92. @SFG
    @TangoMan

    Here's a link (I guess?)

    http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/what-is-neo-reaction.html

    Replies: @Anonym

    Thanks SFG for the link to that piece by Tyler “Let them eat beans!” Cowen.

    His summary of what he terms neo-reaction is actually quite good. There are some issues with it. The dog that doesn’t bark here is the hbd perspective – that it is not just white men per se that are responsible for most of what is great and good about the Western world through culture, there are genetic realities at work here. IQ, creativity, altruism, idealism, orderliness (lack of crime), constructiveness, innovation. Thus Cowen’s stated preference to keep sprinkling feces in the soup as a way of stretching it (immigration vs encouraging native white birthrates) is destined to fail. More Detroits, more Rotherhams, more barrios… these will contribute nothing but parasitic monkeys on the back of the world’s policeman and engine of innovation to as he wheezes and flails around.

    There is something worse than an appeal to authority, there is an appeal to Douthat, the white Uncle Tom of the NYT.

    Cowen’s four criticisms are weak sauce to the point that one might even call them sauce. Most of the white population disagrees with the notion that America is getting greater; otherwise why would they be flocking to a banner to Make America Great Again? For the working and middle class, America is objectively declining in real terms.

    Cowen has a (((perceived))) problem with guns, those supercharged pitchforks that they are. He might ask himself why white men, their so-called neo-reactionary viewpoint excluded as it is from penetrating the PC fortress of media, entertainment, education and government; destined to endure state-sanctioned invasion of non-whites all the while white wealth is transferred to the other, their children encouraged to mix with them in what is termed genocide under the definition of the UN… why on earth would they be amassing personal stockpiles of guns and ammunition? Why aren’t they revelling in the glories of their bean-eating, subletting and rickshaw driving future? Pull your head out of your goddamn ass, Cowen. You know very well that for all these guns there is statistically negligible gun violence among the white population. Mass shootings are mediagenic but the exception that proves the rule.

    Drunkenness? I am not sure where this is coming from as one of the big issues. If drunkenness is a big problem it’s news to me. If you want to look at rape, look not to Haven Monahan but to Rotherham and the Color of Crime. And history of slavery, slavery has been eradicated in the USA for what now, over a hundred years? A brief blip compared to what is still going on in MENA and Africa, as it has for many hundreds of years now. Can someone be knowledgeable enough to cite Steve Sailer still be so wilfully ignorant?

    As for white men being the dominant way of disambiguating the reason for the success of the West, look back at the Apollo program footage. If it wasn’t white men making America great at that time, who was? Where were the black super-programmers of media fiction, or the East Asian and Hindu H1Bs that we supposedly need in a neverending geyser to drive us forward? And look at the demographics at the time. It was only whites. And the blacks were as they always are, a burden. Take a look at the history books, who pioneered science and technology? White men, with rare exception.

    I agree with Cowen when he states that Steve Sailer has been the most significant neo-reactionary thinker, and feel priveleged to have contributed to the discourse here.

    As for the ripping of the fabric and rhetoric of society, and the so-called cruelness, the obnoxious, self-pleased glee with which our views are held – get used to it Cowen. After being shat on for the last 50 years, causing us to forego having children (no different to actual deaths when it comes to the health of our kind) in order to provide for a host of ungrateful parasites including yourself, all the while hearing about how horrible we are, the fruits of our intellect and good will being used to furnish the population booms of non-whites all over the globe… the worm is turning. To figure out why Trump is ascendent you have only to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

  93. LMAO. This surely is deserving of it’s own thread:

  94. @Andrew Jackson
    Maybe I live in a bubble, but no one actually seems to care that much about Ali's death. Not like they did about Prince or David Bowie.

    Replies: @John Mansfield

    “Maybe I live in a bubble, but no one actually seems to care that much about Ali’s death. Not like they did about Prince or David Bowie.”

    Maybe you live in the bubble of people younger than 50. I caught a couple local sports radio guys talking about how Ali was before their time, even before their time as children. It’s that way with any sports star who lives to old age and dies forty years or more after his feats as a young man. A musician’s greatest hits will have more circulation in the decades after his prime than an athlete’s.

  95. @snorlax
    @Brutusale

    There was a forgettable thriller movie a few years ago loosely based on that story; the villainous bankers were all stale, pale males of course.

    Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy

    I remember the pretty cool shootout scene at the Guggenheim, but absolutely nothing else about that movie.

  96. @Big Bill
    @TangoMan

    That Mormon gender gap is amazing!

    For heaven's sake, here is a population of women who want nothing more than to make babies like crazy, submit to their men, and take care of a home surrounded by like-minded people in a warm, supportive, patriarchal, family-oriented culture.

    And they cannot find husbands? What on earth is going on?

    Is there any Mormon that can enlighten us, please?

    Replies: @Triumph104

    I’m not a Mormon but there are many unappealing aspects of the religion for men. Sure Mormon men are priest and will one day be God on their own planet, but Mormon life on Earth is fairly emasculating. They can only have sex in marriage. Can’t smoke or drink alcohol, coffee, or most teas. Young men are heavily pressured to go on missions, which they have to pay for themselves. Sometimes men lose their faith on missions while living outside of the Mormon bubble.

    The religion is very demanding of their time. They don’t just volunteer but are “called” into many activities. Need to consult with and confess to the bishop. Must tithe 10 percent or lose good standing in the church and lose temple privileges. BYU professors have been fired for not tithing. Monthly home visits from church members to see if everything is OK. Pressured to have children even if not financially feasible. Some men leave to live as homosexuals.

  97. @Jonathan Revusky
    @Steve Sailer


    1970s Zebra Murders
     
    Mr. Sailer, have you ever looked into the deep history of this time period? For example, does the term Cointelpro ring a bell for you?

    At that point in time, State agents had infiltrated every anti-System group. It was basically impossible for any groups, whether the Black Panthers or the KKK for the matter, to really do anything significant without the FBI knowing about it. So, for me, what is odd in this Zebra Murders narrative is that they are able to go on a killing spree over a period of half a year and, seemingly, the authorities have no clue what is going on and are helpless to put a stop to it. For half a year.

    Well, quite frankly, I do not claim to know what happened. What I find, though, is that if you ever seriously investigate cases like these, you almost invariably end up concluding that what really happened is something very different from the official narrative.

    By the way, a similar analysis applies to these recent terrorist events in France (and Belgium). The milieu that these supposed terrorists operate in is completely infiltrated by agents of the State. It is, to all intents and purposes, impossible for these people to be planning and carrying out these terrorist acts right under the noses of the authorities.

    I don't follow what you write that closely, but you seem to be part of a group of people here who just assume that whatever the official narrative on such events is necessarily true.

    Well, Mr. Sailer, maybe you should wise up a bit and realize that, whatever the official story is.... it ain't necessarily so....

    Replies: @Jefferson, @David In TN, @Truth

    Richard Nixon was president during The Zebra Murders. Are you saying Richard Nixon wanted to exterminate the White race? After all the POTUS is the boss of the FBI, DOJ, DEA, and the CIA. He is above them in the government food chain.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    @Jefferson


    Are you saying Richard Nixon wanted to exterminate the White race?
     
    Huh? I never said anything about Nixon. Oh, I see, you're at the level of political understanding that you think the president makes all the decisions at all levels in the government. Well, no, it's not really like that.

    In any case, what do you mean, exterminate the White race? Of course not. The purpose of a false flag psy-op in which a dozen people or so die would be to give them a pretext for a crackdown on some group or groups, I suppose. Or build popular support for a crackdown. That kind of thing would be the reason for a false flag.

    But, anyway, look, I said clearly that I did not know what happened exactly. The official story looks very dubious though. The basic notion that the Nation of Islam would want to just kill a dozen or so random white people just for the pure heck of it is just ludicrous really. There's simply no motive. And, okay, you'll probably come back and say "They just hate white people, that's their motive." But to me, that's just silly. C'mon.,,

    There is always something strange about any narrative in which people show up and kill folks for no real reason, no motive. People they don't even know. You look at all such events with that kind of story line and there's usually something strange going on. To be honest, to me, the whole Zebra murders thing has false flag/psy-op written all over it. But it's hard to be sure of the truth about something like that, especially over 40 years later.
  98. Marc says:
    @t
    OT: Vox claims that the stress of growing up in a poor area causes low IQ:

    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/6/11852640/cartoon-poor-neighborhoods

    Replies: @SPMoore8, @Marc

    It’s also what I call the magical zip code theory:

    Reminds me of when the cause of black scholastic under-performance was determined to be old buildings and outdated text books. After a national push that updated urban schools across the country with negligible improvements, it’s now the teachers fault per “Waiting For Superman.”

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Marc

    George Takei is in that video. Speaking of magic zip code and magic dirt, does George Takei know that his ancestral homeland of Japan is seen as magic dirt by Arab Muslims, Pakis, and Sub Saharan Africans? They want to invade his country so badly, but they can't because of Japan's "racist" immigration laws.

    Replies: @snorlax

  99. @Jonathan Revusky
    @Steve Sailer


    1970s Zebra Murders
     
    Mr. Sailer, have you ever looked into the deep history of this time period? For example, does the term Cointelpro ring a bell for you?

    At that point in time, State agents had infiltrated every anti-System group. It was basically impossible for any groups, whether the Black Panthers or the KKK for the matter, to really do anything significant without the FBI knowing about it. So, for me, what is odd in this Zebra Murders narrative is that they are able to go on a killing spree over a period of half a year and, seemingly, the authorities have no clue what is going on and are helpless to put a stop to it. For half a year.

    Well, quite frankly, I do not claim to know what happened. What I find, though, is that if you ever seriously investigate cases like these, you almost invariably end up concluding that what really happened is something very different from the official narrative.

    By the way, a similar analysis applies to these recent terrorist events in France (and Belgium). The milieu that these supposed terrorists operate in is completely infiltrated by agents of the State. It is, to all intents and purposes, impossible for these people to be planning and carrying out these terrorist acts right under the noses of the authorities.

    I don't follow what you write that closely, but you seem to be part of a group of people here who just assume that whatever the official narrative on such events is necessarily true.

    Well, Mr. Sailer, maybe you should wise up a bit and realize that, whatever the official story is.... it ain't necessarily so....

    Replies: @Jefferson, @David In TN, @Truth

    Well, have you bothered to read Howard’s book? Or the self-serving 2006 book by former SFPD Chief Earl Sanders?

    NOI members were murdering white people for the sadistic pleasure of it concluded the professional investigators. It was obvious to anyone with an IQ at room temperature.

    Earl Sanders said it was impossible to place black police officers or any other undercover agents inside a NOI mosque. They were too suspicious. And it wasn’t “half a year,” it was nearly four years throughout California.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    Well, have you bothered to read Howard’s book? Or the self-serving 2006 book by former SFPD Chief Earl Sanders?
     
    No, I haven't read either book. I'm aware of them. The whole plot-line is really fishy is all I'm saying.

    NOI members were murdering white people for the sadistic pleasure of it concluded the professional investigators.
     
    Yeah, that's the story. These guys just did it for the pure heck of it.

    Oh, were these the same professional investigators who concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting completely alone, decided to kill the president just for the pure heck of it?

    Oh different people probably, but...

    Earl Sanders said it was impossible to place black police officers or any other undercover agents inside a NOI mosque.
     
    Oh really? Does that claim ring true to you?

    Replies: @David In TN

  100. @flyingtiger
    I stopped drinking because I have to reduce my sugar intake. I bought a beer to celebrate the death of that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.) The only other exception was for the death of General Giap. In both cases I said, it should have happened sooner.

    The bible is a well written and well organized document. There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained. The Koran is a mess and contradicts itself so many times. Only a fool can believe the Koran.

    Replies: @anon, @AndrewR, @Eustace Tilley (not), @Bill Jones, @ChaseBizzy

    His refusal to murder people half way around the world was the best thing he ever did.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Bill Jones


    His refusal to murder people half way around the world was the best thing he ever did.
     
    Hardly. He just didn't want to kill non-Whites. Now,if the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had told him to go to Estonia and kill White people, I'm pretty sure that M.A. would have been totally OK with that.As always, Who-Whom.
  101. @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    The NOI were thought responsible.
     
    Out of curiosity, did they ever state what the motive of these crimes was?

    Replies: @David In TN

    “Out of curiosity, did they ever state what the motive of these crimes was?”

    At the 1975-76 trial of the San Francisco Zebra killers, the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings. It was the longest trial in California history at the time.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings
     
    So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn't even know because they just hate white people. That's the motive....

    Well, to me, that means that the prosecution never really came up with a motive.

    It's like, why did James Earl Ray kill Martin Luther King? I always assumed that the motive was that he hated black folks. But, I just looked it up and his motive was supposedly something called "ego gratification". In other words, he did it more or less just for the pure heck of it. Killing MLK would... make him feel good about himself...

    All these kinds of narratives give off such a stench of pure bullshit that... Anyway, the MLK assassination has been researched quite a bit. James Earl Ray was just a patsy. As for these Zebra murders, I don't think that any equivalent amount of independent investigation has taken place. It smells very funny though.

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux, @Jefferson

  102. @Jefferson
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Richard Nixon was president during The Zebra Murders. Are you saying Richard Nixon wanted to exterminate the White race? After all the POTUS is the boss of the FBI, DOJ, DEA, and the CIA. He is above them in the government food chain.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    Are you saying Richard Nixon wanted to exterminate the White race?

    Huh? I never said anything about Nixon. Oh, I see, you’re at the level of political understanding that you think the president makes all the decisions at all levels in the government. Well, no, it’s not really like that.

    In any case, what do you mean, exterminate the White race? Of course not. The purpose of a false flag psy-op in which a dozen people or so die would be to give them a pretext for a crackdown on some group or groups, I suppose. Or build popular support for a crackdown. That kind of thing would be the reason for a false flag.

    But, anyway, look, I said clearly that I did not know what happened exactly. The official story looks very dubious though. The basic notion that the Nation of Islam would want to just kill a dozen or so random white people just for the pure heck of it is just ludicrous really. There’s simply no motive. And, okay, you’ll probably come back and say “They just hate white people, that’s their motive.” But to me, that’s just silly. C’mon.,,

    There is always something strange about any narrative in which people show up and kill folks for no real reason, no motive. People they don’t even know. You look at all such events with that kind of story line and there’s usually something strange going on. To be honest, to me, the whole Zebra murders thing has false flag/psy-op written all over it. But it’s hard to be sure of the truth about something like that, especially over 40 years later.

  103. @Connecticut Famer
    Ali scored a "16" in the Army IQ test and I understand that his IQ was rated at 78. See excerpt of an interview W.F. Buckley did of Ali in 1968 below. If the baseline is 100, I leave it to others to decide whether or not the manner in which Ali communicates is reflective of a person of considerably below average intelligence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRDAbjcf7s8

    Replies: @syonredux, @Jack D

    Ali scored a “16″ in the Army IQ test and I understand that his IQ was rated at 78. See excerpt of an interview W.F. Buckley did of Ali in 1968 below. If the baseline is 100,

    100 is the White American mean. The Black American mean is around 85. If a White person has an IQ of 78, he’s messed up, highly dysfunctional. A Black person with an IQ of 78, in contrast, is just a little below normal (cf a White person with an IQ of 93).

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @syonredux

    "100 is the White American mean. The Black American mean is around 85. If a White person has an IQ of 78, he’s messed up, highly dysfunctional. A Black person with an IQ of 78, in contrast, is just a little below normal (cf a White person with an IQ of 93)."

    What percentage of White people do you think have an IQ of 78 or very close to it?

    Even the poorest Eastern European countries do not have an IQ average that low.

    A White person with an IQ of 78 probably either drools a lot or has down syndrome Mongoloid shaped eyes.

  104. @Marc
    @t

    It's also what I call the magical zip code theory:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogKEo2CPtvA

    Reminds me of when the cause of black scholastic under-performance was determined to be old buildings and outdated text books. After a national push that updated urban schools across the country with negligible improvements, it's now the teachers fault per "Waiting For Superman."

    Replies: @Jefferson

    George Takei is in that video. Speaking of magic zip code and magic dirt, does George Takei know that his ancestral homeland of Japan is seen as magic dirt by Arab Muslims, Pakis, and Sub Saharan Africans? They want to invade his country so badly, but they can’t because of Japan’s “racist” immigration laws.

    • Replies: @snorlax
    @Jefferson

    George Takei is a thoroughly assimilated generic liberal, so I'm quite sure he'd agree that Japan's immigration laws are racist.

  105. @Bill Jones
    @flyingtiger

    His refusal to murder people half way around the world was the best thing he ever did.

    Replies: @syonredux

    His refusal to murder people half way around the world was the best thing he ever did.

    Hardly. He just didn’t want to kill non-Whites. Now,if the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had told him to go to Estonia and kill White people, I’m pretty sure that M.A. would have been totally OK with that.As always, Who-Whom.

  106. @David In TN
    @Jonathan Revusky

    "Out of curiosity, did they ever state what the motive of these crimes was?"

    At the 1975-76 trial of the San Francisco Zebra killers, the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings. It was the longest trial in California history at the time.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings

    So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn’t even know because they just hate white people. That’s the motive….

    Well, to me, that means that the prosecution never really came up with a motive.

    It’s like, why did James Earl Ray kill Martin Luther King? I always assumed that the motive was that he hated black folks. But, I just looked it up and his motive was supposedly something called “ego gratification”. In other words, he did it more or less just for the pure heck of it. Killing MLK would… make him feel good about himself…

    All these kinds of narratives give off such a stench of pure bullshit that… Anyway, the MLK assassination has been researched quite a bit. James Earl Ray was just a patsy. As for these Zebra murders, I don’t think that any equivalent amount of independent investigation has taken place. It smells very funny though.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Jonathan Revusky


    So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn’t even know because they just hate white people. That’s the motive….
     
    Yeah. Racial hatred is a very strong motive for murder. Heck, even heads of state have been motivated by it.....
    , @syonredux
    @Jonathan Revusky


    Anyway, the MLK assassination has been researched quite a bit. James Earl Ray was just a patsy.
     
    Hardly. He did the deed, all right. That being said, there is evidence that he might have had confederates.
    , @Jefferson
    @Jonathan Revusky

    "So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn’t even know because they just hate white people. That’s the motive…."

    Most African Americans hate White people, but most of the time that hatred is just verbal and not physical. A smaller but significant minority of African Americans take their hatred of White people to extremes, enough to physically harm them for simply being White. Think of polar bear hunting for example.

    So it is not unrealistic at all that a bunch of batshit crazy racist Black Muslims would go around murdering White people simply because of the color of their skin, simply for being born White.

  107. @Steve Sailer
    @Steve Sailer

    Actor Dennis Franz was drafted out of college and did a year in Vietnam. He says it was Not Fun.

    Toy Caldwell, who was the guitarist and sometimes singer ("Can't You See") in the southern rock Marshall Tucker Band, enlisted in the Marines out of high school and was wounded in Vietnam. He came home and got into music.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Carl Wilson of the Beach Boys was drafted but did not have to serve because of his conscientious-objector status.

  108. @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings
     
    So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn't even know because they just hate white people. That's the motive....

    Well, to me, that means that the prosecution never really came up with a motive.

    It's like, why did James Earl Ray kill Martin Luther King? I always assumed that the motive was that he hated black folks. But, I just looked it up and his motive was supposedly something called "ego gratification". In other words, he did it more or less just for the pure heck of it. Killing MLK would... make him feel good about himself...

    All these kinds of narratives give off such a stench of pure bullshit that... Anyway, the MLK assassination has been researched quite a bit. James Earl Ray was just a patsy. As for these Zebra murders, I don't think that any equivalent amount of independent investigation has taken place. It smells very funny though.

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux, @Jefferson

    So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn’t even know because they just hate white people. That’s the motive….

    Yeah. Racial hatred is a very strong motive for murder. Heck, even heads of state have been motivated by it…..

  109. @PiltdownMan
    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I'm having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing...

    https://youtu.be/yNrNpw7hmcE

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    …Attica prison … where all the black prisoners were shot …

    [poem:] “… to die fight’n to be free

    let me die by bein’ black … ”

    LOL. All those black rapists and murderers in prison are really freedom fighters imprisoned and later killed just because they were black. Attica! Attica! Black lives matter!

    So he thinks racist whites just round up blacks for no reason and put them in prison? Modern day slavery. Maybe we should release all black prisoners and hand them an AK-47? Sounds kind of retarded to me.

    BTW, this is why there are “IQ fetishists”. Some propagandist comes along, preaches some silly idea like the one above, and the left half of the bell curve will believe it. They can cause much damage to society.

    Four-year-olds can memorize songs like Bingo, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star etc., it’s compatable with having the mental age of a twelve-year-old.

    • Replies: @MQ
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    BTW, this is why there are “IQ fetishists”. Some propagandist comes along, preaches some silly idea like the one above, and the left half of the bell curve will believe it. They can cause much damage to society.

    good lord, are we now going to have people claim that high IQ/high 'g' people don't believe silly ideas that cause damage to society? Look around you, folks!

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

  110. @syonredux
    @Connecticut Famer


    Ali scored a “16″ in the Army IQ test and I understand that his IQ was rated at 78. See excerpt of an interview W.F. Buckley did of Ali in 1968 below. If the baseline is 100,
     
    100 is the White American mean. The Black American mean is around 85. If a White person has an IQ of 78, he's messed up, highly dysfunctional. A Black person with an IQ of 78, in contrast, is just a little below normal (cf a White person with an IQ of 93).

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “100 is the White American mean. The Black American mean is around 85. If a White person has an IQ of 78, he’s messed up, highly dysfunctional. A Black person with an IQ of 78, in contrast, is just a little below normal (cf a White person with an IQ of 93).”

    What percentage of White people do you think have an IQ of 78 or very close to it?

    Even the poorest Eastern European countries do not have an IQ average that low.

    A White person with an IQ of 78 probably either drools a lot or has down syndrome Mongoloid shaped eyes.

  111. @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings
     
    So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn't even know because they just hate white people. That's the motive....

    Well, to me, that means that the prosecution never really came up with a motive.

    It's like, why did James Earl Ray kill Martin Luther King? I always assumed that the motive was that he hated black folks. But, I just looked it up and his motive was supposedly something called "ego gratification". In other words, he did it more or less just for the pure heck of it. Killing MLK would... make him feel good about himself...

    All these kinds of narratives give off such a stench of pure bullshit that... Anyway, the MLK assassination has been researched quite a bit. James Earl Ray was just a patsy. As for these Zebra murders, I don't think that any equivalent amount of independent investigation has taken place. It smells very funny though.

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux, @Jefferson

    Anyway, the MLK assassination has been researched quite a bit. James Earl Ray was just a patsy.

    Hardly. He did the deed, all right. That being said, there is evidence that he might have had confederates.

  112. @David In TN
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Well, have you bothered to read Howard's book? Or the self-serving 2006 book by former SFPD Chief Earl Sanders?

    NOI members were murdering white people for the sadistic pleasure of it concluded the professional investigators. It was obvious to anyone with an IQ at room temperature.

    Earl Sanders said it was impossible to place black police officers or any other undercover agents inside a NOI mosque. They were too suspicious. And it wasn't "half a year," it was nearly four years throughout California.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    Well, have you bothered to read Howard’s book? Or the self-serving 2006 book by former SFPD Chief Earl Sanders?

    No, I haven’t read either book. I’m aware of them. The whole plot-line is really fishy is all I’m saying.

    NOI members were murdering white people for the sadistic pleasure of it concluded the professional investigators.

    Yeah, that’s the story. These guys just did it for the pure heck of it.

    Oh, were these the same professional investigators who concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting completely alone, decided to kill the president just for the pure heck of it?

    Oh different people probably, but…

    Earl Sanders said it was impossible to place black police officers or any other undercover agents inside a NOI mosque.

    Oh really? Does that claim ring true to you?

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Jonathan Revusky

    That you would have a functioning brain "is really fishy."

  113. @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    the prosecution adamantly stated they were racial killings
     
    So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn't even know because they just hate white people. That's the motive....

    Well, to me, that means that the prosecution never really came up with a motive.

    It's like, why did James Earl Ray kill Martin Luther King? I always assumed that the motive was that he hated black folks. But, I just looked it up and his motive was supposedly something called "ego gratification". In other words, he did it more or less just for the pure heck of it. Killing MLK would... make him feel good about himself...

    All these kinds of narratives give off such a stench of pure bullshit that... Anyway, the MLK assassination has been researched quite a bit. James Earl Ray was just a patsy. As for these Zebra murders, I don't think that any equivalent amount of independent investigation has taken place. It smells very funny though.

    Replies: @syonredux, @syonredux, @Jefferson

    “So they just killed a dozen or so white folks who they didn’t even know because they just hate white people. That’s the motive….”

    Most African Americans hate White people, but most of the time that hatred is just verbal and not physical. A smaller but significant minority of African Americans take their hatred of White people to extremes, enough to physically harm them for simply being White. Think of polar bear hunting for example.

    So it is not unrealistic at all that a bunch of batshit crazy racist Black Muslims would go around murdering White people simply because of the color of their skin, simply for being born White.

  114. @Phil
    The idea that someone that verbal quick was that low IQ is the best evidence I've seen that IQ tests might be culturally bias.

    I suspect the most obvious explanation some combination of the test reflexing poor reading skills (which is different than low intelligence) and his complete lack of interest in taking the test.

    I don't buy that being an accurate reflection of his intelligence at all.

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    someone that verbal quick

    What’s with all the people amazed at the magic negro’s speaking abilities? Were they raised by wolves and this is the first time they’ve seen another human being speaking?

    • Replies: @Ttjy
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    He was against miscegenation and for George Wallace. At least the low IQ person wasn't like these high IQ people promoting diversity constantly, well except for themselves.

    He sounded like he had ideas in his head from his speeches. They just didn't fit what the intellectuals wanted him to say.

    Replies: @Jefferson

  115. @Connecticut Famer
    Ali scored a "16" in the Army IQ test and I understand that his IQ was rated at 78. See excerpt of an interview W.F. Buckley did of Ali in 1968 below. If the baseline is 100, I leave it to others to decide whether or not the manner in which Ali communicates is reflective of a person of considerably below average intelligence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRDAbjcf7s8

    Replies: @syonredux, @Jack D

    It is well known that Ali never really learned to read fluently.

  116. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Phil



    someone that verbal quick

     

    What's with all the people amazed at the magic negro's speaking abilities? Were they raised by wolves and this is the first time they've seen another human being speaking?

    Replies: @Ttjy

    He was against miscegenation and for George Wallace. At least the low IQ person wasn’t like these high IQ people promoting diversity constantly, well except for themselves.

    He sounded like he had ideas in his head from his speeches. They just didn’t fit what the intellectuals wanted him to say.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Ttjy

    "He was against miscegenation and for George Wallace. At least the low IQ person wasn’t like these high IQ people promoting diversity constantly, well except for themselves."

    Muhammad Ali's daughter married a White man and he didn't disown her & cut ties with her. So he is not the best example of someone who advocates for racial purity. Muhammad Ali did not shun his half White grandson.

    You being a White nationalist, if you had a daughter who married a Black man, you would disown & cut ties with her correct?

  117. MQ says:
    @biz
    @mq

    Nope. IQ test are an effective measure of the general intelligence factor g, which is in turn the best quantification that we have of general intelligence.

    Replies: @MQ

    LOL, no. ‘g’ is a social science artifact, the product of a couple of psychometricians playing games with factor analysis of written test responses. It corresponds to no clear biological mechanism of intelligence in the brain. It obviously is (by construction) connected to certain significant abilities (the ability to get correct answers on certain kinds of written tests), I wouldn’t argue with that at all. But to identify it with intelligence full stop is a bit silly and shows a lack of experience of life. Intelligence encompasses a wide range of abilities involving the use of the human brain to plan, conceptualize, and organize your activities and communication in a way that is effective for achieving your goals. Going toe to toe with William Buckley for an hour of extemporaneous debate and absolutely holding your own is a fine indicator of ‘intelligence’, every bit as good as ‘g’.

  118. MQ says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome
    @PiltdownMan



    ...Attica prison ... where all the black prisoners were shot ...
    ...
    [poem:] "... to die fight'n to be free
    ...
    let me die by bein' black ... "

     

    LOL. All those black rapists and murderers in prison are really freedom fighters imprisoned and later killed just because they were black. Attica! Attica! Black lives matter!

    So he thinks racist whites just round up blacks for no reason and put them in prison? Modern day slavery. Maybe we should release all black prisoners and hand them an AK-47? Sounds kind of retarded to me.

    BTW, this is why there are "IQ fetishists". Some propagandist comes along, preaches some silly idea like the one above, and the left half of the bell curve will believe it. They can cause much damage to society.

    Four-year-olds can memorize songs like Bingo, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star etc., it's compatable with having the mental age of a twelve-year-old.

    Replies: @MQ

    BTW, this is why there are “IQ fetishists”. Some propagandist comes along, preaches some silly idea like the one above, and the left half of the bell curve will believe it. They can cause much damage to society.

    good lord, are we now going to have people claim that high IQ/high ‘g’ people don’t believe silly ideas that cause damage to society? Look around you, folks!

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    @MQ



    But to identify it with intelligence full stop is a bit silly and shows a lack of experience of life.

     

    Tests perform a concrete practical function. Many institutitions such as colleges and the military use tests to screen their applicants. If scores on the tests didn't predict future performance, the tests would be worthless and would not be used Tests perform an important practical function and a lot of manpower is invested in designing tests that accurately predict future performance.
  119. @PiltdownMan
    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I'm having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing...

    https://youtu.be/yNrNpw7hmcE

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome, @Hippopotamusdrome

    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…

    Some excerpts of the poem he recited.

    Muhammad Ali recites a poem during a interview in Ireland AMAZING

    Battle far from all I see
    To die fightin’ to be free
    What more fitting end to be
    [unintelligible]
    … lingering until I’m dead

    Let me die by bein’ black

    If theres any [unintelligible] I’ve got
    Kill me here on the spot
    Better far my fight to wage
    Now while my blood boils with rage
    ..
    Makin’ peace is to live a lie

    If you liked that, you’ll also like this poem in a simalar vein.

    SNL Eddie Murphy: Kill my landlord

    Give it here by Tyrone Red

    Darkly lonely on a summer night
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    Watchdog barking, do he bite?
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    Go in his window, break his neck
    Then his house I start to wreck
    Got no reason, what the heck?
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    K-I-L-L my landlord

    • Replies: @V Vega
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…
     
    Two issues: His reading ability was allegedly at kindergarten level at that time. I would think that lack of reading comprehension might add a negative variable to the test that wasn't intended, AND when he took the test, if you remember, he did NOT want to be drafted.

    Between those two facts, his "78 IQ" resides.

    Even if he was parroting ideas from his Islamic friends, you'll notice when he's put under pressure, he answers his debaters pretty darned fast. Faster than what I'd deem average speed. I don't think that alleged IQ number is valid by a long shot. His repeated demonstrations of his intelligence, while under pressure, mind you, doesn't comport with anyone I've ever known to be "not that bright."

    I think 110-120 would be more like it. Possibly higher, certainly no lower.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Hibernian

  120. @mq
    Ali scored a 16 on the Army intelligence tests, indicating that he had a low IQ. A man of his wit and quickness could not be that dumb, we protest. Yet I think the score was an honest reflection of Ali’s mental abilities. Ali was not literate, nor was he analytical. When he was younger he could successfully debate those who were much smarter, or at least had read more books, because he had the zealot’s set of answers to life’s questions. His mind worked through formulas and cliches.

    In other words -- he was very smart, and used his mind very successfully, but he was not smart in the way that IQ tests measure. IQ tests are an achievement test not an overall intelligence measure. In that sense, they were an accurate test of his mental abilities but not a measure of his intelligence.

    Replies: @biz, @e, @Hippopotamusdrome

    he was very smart, and used his mind very successfully

    … very successfully as a weight to absorb energy from punches to prevent his skull from breaking?

  121. @Ttjy
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    He was against miscegenation and for George Wallace. At least the low IQ person wasn't like these high IQ people promoting diversity constantly, well except for themselves.

    He sounded like he had ideas in his head from his speeches. They just didn't fit what the intellectuals wanted him to say.

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “He was against miscegenation and for George Wallace. At least the low IQ person wasn’t like these high IQ people promoting diversity constantly, well except for themselves.”

    Muhammad Ali’s daughter married a White man and he didn’t disown her & cut ties with her. So he is not the best example of someone who advocates for racial purity. Muhammad Ali did not shun his half White grandson.

    You being a White nationalist, if you had a daughter who married a Black man, you would disown & cut ties with her correct?

  122. @Justpassingby
    @Steve Sailer


    We’re any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?
     
    Weren't the sons of Jerry Lewis and/or Dean Martin in the service during Vietnam?

    IIRC, Garry Maddox's nickname was Sarge.

    Replies: @tony_k, @Former Darfur, @Truth

    Several B and C list celebs and music figures were drafted in the Vietnam era.

    “Keith”, a one hit wonder , “98.6 Degrees”, famously got hauled off by the Army for draft evasion in the midst of a tour. But for the most part, the rock music figures we are familiar with who were subject to Selective Service famously went to some lengths to avoid the draft, Iggy Pop, Bruce Springsteen and Ted Nugent being three famous examples. For the most part, those willing to participate in some public degradation of themselves as being crazy or flagrantly homosexual were simply declared unsuitable.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Former Darfur

    Hendrix was a paratrooper, but got kicked out. The paperwork seemed to be pretty understanding: like ... this guy would be worst soldier of all time, but we still kind of think he's cool.

    Replies: @James Braxton, @Desiderius, @JohnnyWalker123

  123. @David In TN
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    The so-called Zebra Murders were way worse, and I mean way worse than is generally known. In addition to the San Francisco killings, there were some 30 murders during that period called the "East Bay Killings," which were believed to be by NOI types from Alameda County.

    See the book, "Killing the Messenger," by Thomas Peele. It's mainly about the 2007 murder of black journalist Chauncey Bailey but Chapter 12 covers the Zebra Murders along with the others in the area during 1970-74.. There were also some in Los Angeles County.

    In October 1973, there was a meeting of California law enforcement officials in Oakland. They had tracked over 70 black on white murders in California the last few years, each of which had a well dressed young black man as the suspect. The NOI were thought responsible.

    That month the "Zebra Murders" began in San Francisco. Clark Howard's 1979 book was part investigative journalism, part novel and/or New Journalism. Howard threw out various numbers for victims, up in the hundreds in California, but didn't provide data despite studying California Attorney General's office records.

    A comprehensive book on the subject has yet to be written.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky, @anonymous

    Illinois also had the De Mau Mau gang who killed perhaps a dozen whites in 1972. Lots of spin-offs seem to have occurred.

  124. Boy, it’s a good thing no one will admit to reading you, Mr. Sailer … you might be pushing the limits of fair use there …

    I am amused how Ali’s endorsement of Reagan appears to gone down the memory hole.

  125. @Former Darfur
    @Justpassingby

    Several B and C list celebs and music figures were drafted in the Vietnam era.

    "Keith", a one hit wonder , "98.6 Degrees", famously got hauled off by the Army for draft evasion in the midst of a tour. But for the most part, the rock music figures we are familiar with who were subject to Selective Service famously went to some lengths to avoid the draft, Iggy Pop, Bruce Springsteen and Ted Nugent being three famous examples. For the most part, those willing to participate in some public degradation of themselves as being crazy or flagrantly homosexual were simply declared unsuitable.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Hendrix was a paratrooper, but got kicked out. The paperwork seemed to be pretty understanding: like … this guy would be worst soldier of all time, but we still kind of think he’s cool.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    @Steve Sailer

    I don't think he was a paratrooper. He was assigned to the 101st Airborne, but I don't think he ever went to airborne school. He was a supply clerk in a support company.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer

    IIRC, he busted his ankle on a jump.

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Steve Sailer

    Hendrix was definitely cool.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKvnQYFhGCc

    Replies: @Truth

  126. I was sort of hoping Gerald Early had died (sorry Gerald) then I could have legitimately written “the late Gerald Early”.

  127. @Steve Sailer
    @cthulhu

    Good point.

    Here's an article about baseball players and Vietnam: it lists five who served in Vietnam, including Jim Bibby (the taller brother of basketball player Henry Bibby) and Garry Maddox. It sounds like Al Bumbry, 1973 AL Rookie of the Year, saw the most combat.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/cooperstown-confidential-baseball-and-vietnam/

    I found another article about a guy, Roy Gleason, who had a cup of coffee with the Dodgers and then was wounded in Vietnam. It says he was the only MLB player wounded in Vietnam.

    Replies: @James Braxton

    Ok there seem to be a few examples. But over 8% of men who were draft age during the Vietnam era were drafted.

    See this Rand Corporation study, page 44: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2007/RAND_MG265.pdf

    You’d think that professional athletes would be less likely to be found medically unfit for duty and would be drafted at an even higher rate. It seems like every club would have had multiple players drafted every year, but that doesn’t seem to have been the case. The whole thing seems fishy to me.

  128. @Anonymous
    What is a fact today is that European heavyweight boxers have intimidated black Americans right out of the competition. The tables have turned.

    A heavyweight black boxer getting into the ring today doesn't face Jerry Cooney. He faces an assortment of angry white Euro guys with no f***s given about black victimization.

    Ali faced the weakest crew of white boxers in history.

    Replies: @Michelle, @ChaseBizzy, @ChaseBizzy

    Oh puleeze, if you enjoy that slow, flat footed style of boxing. I do not! The Klitschko brothers are a joke, just obscenely oversized. The white, British boxers are pathetic. Prime example, the weak, windmilling, noodle armed Calzaghe. Give me an effing break. Some of the white fighters have heart, but none of them, none, have the speed power or reflexes to make a fight exciting. Mexican fighters are like fighting cocks, quick and tenacious. Europeans, just slow, boring and desperate. Ali, of course, deteriorated into the “Rope a dope”, style which was a travesty and Floyd Mayweather recently used it against Pacquiao, successfully. Name one European fighter who is not “a person of color” who is in any way a superior boxer.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Michelle


    The Klitschko brothers are a joke, just obscenely oversized. The white, British boxers are patheti
     
    A stupid comment from a female who knows nothing about boxing. Not knowing squat about something doesn't keep some people from making sweeping pronouncements as though they're experts.
  129. @Steve Sailer
    @Former Darfur

    Hendrix was a paratrooper, but got kicked out. The paperwork seemed to be pretty understanding: like ... this guy would be worst soldier of all time, but we still kind of think he's cool.

    Replies: @James Braxton, @Desiderius, @JohnnyWalker123

    I don’t think he was a paratrooper. He was assigned to the 101st Airborne, but I don’t think he ever went to airborne school. He was a supply clerk in a support company.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @James Braxton

    There was a Hendrix bio recently on PBS that claimed he broke his ankle on a jump. It shows a letter to his dad where he talks about jumping.

    Replies: @James Braxton

  130. I took Gerald Early’s class on 20th century Black writers in college back in the 1980s. He approached these authors no differently than any other literature classes I took from other professors. He never made me, as a white student, feel uncomfortable about expressing opinions. Great guy.

  131. @Steve Sailer
    @Former Darfur

    Hendrix was a paratrooper, but got kicked out. The paperwork seemed to be pretty understanding: like ... this guy would be worst soldier of all time, but we still kind of think he's cool.

    Replies: @James Braxton, @Desiderius, @JohnnyWalker123

    IIRC, he busted his ankle on a jump.

  132. @Daniel H
    @Steve Sailer

    The actor Jimmy Stewart's stepson Ronald was killed in Vietnam.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    The actor Jimmy Stewart’s stepson Ronald was killed in Vietnam.

    Jimmy Stewart himself served in Vietnam. He was an Air Force reserve Brigadier-General by then, in his parallel military career.

    He was qualified to fly the eight jet engine Stratofortress and went as an observer on a B-52 Arclight bombing run over North Vietnam.

  133. @James Braxton
    @Steve Sailer

    I don't think he was a paratrooper. He was assigned to the 101st Airborne, but I don't think he ever went to airborne school. He was a supply clerk in a support company.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    There was a Hendrix bio recently on PBS that claimed he broke his ankle on a jump. It shows a letter to his dad where he talks about jumping.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    @Desiderius

    I think that is what Hendrix told people to justify his discharge. It sounds better than getting kicked out for masturbating on duty. Nothing in his personnel file indicates he ever went to jump school

    Replies: @Hibernian

  134. @tony_k
    @Justpassingby

    Gary Matthews nickname was Sarge, not Garry Maddox.

    Replies: @Justpassingby

    My mistake. Thanks for the update.

  135. @Steve Sailer
    @Former Darfur

    Hendrix was a paratrooper, but got kicked out. The paperwork seemed to be pretty understanding: like ... this guy would be worst soldier of all time, but we still kind of think he's cool.

    Replies: @James Braxton, @Desiderius, @JohnnyWalker123

    Hendrix was definitely cool.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @JohnnyWalker123

    "Hendrix was definitely cool."

    I don't know Old Sport; I think it's just marketing mixed with nostalgia. I mean, after all, don't all "dead" celebrities get "cooler" with the passage of time?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKgRE7ElhSk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo-XGWf0H68

  136. @Desiderius
    @James Braxton

    There was a Hendrix bio recently on PBS that claimed he broke his ankle on a jump. It shows a letter to his dad where he talks about jumping.

    Replies: @James Braxton

    I think that is what Hendrix told people to justify his discharge. It sounds better than getting kicked out for masturbating on duty. Nothing in his personnel file indicates he ever went to jump school

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @James Braxton

    At one time, in elite units, support personnel were jump qualified.

  137. @Jefferson
    @Marc

    George Takei is in that video. Speaking of magic zip code and magic dirt, does George Takei know that his ancestral homeland of Japan is seen as magic dirt by Arab Muslims, Pakis, and Sub Saharan Africans? They want to invade his country so badly, but they can't because of Japan's "racist" immigration laws.

    Replies: @snorlax

    George Takei is a thoroughly assimilated generic liberal, so I’m quite sure he’d agree that Japan’s immigration laws are racist.

  138. @Jonathan Revusky
    @David In TN


    Well, have you bothered to read Howard’s book? Or the self-serving 2006 book by former SFPD Chief Earl Sanders?
     
    No, I haven't read either book. I'm aware of them. The whole plot-line is really fishy is all I'm saying.

    NOI members were murdering white people for the sadistic pleasure of it concluded the professional investigators.
     
    Yeah, that's the story. These guys just did it for the pure heck of it.

    Oh, were these the same professional investigators who concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting completely alone, decided to kill the president just for the pure heck of it?

    Oh different people probably, but...

    Earl Sanders said it was impossible to place black police officers or any other undercover agents inside a NOI mosque.
     
    Oh really? Does that claim ring true to you?

    Replies: @David In TN

    That you would have a functioning brain “is really fishy.”

  139. @Justpassingby
    @Steve Sailer


    We’re any movie stars or rock stars drafted in the 1960s the way Elvis was drafted in the 1950s?
     
    Weren't the sons of Jerry Lewis and/or Dean Martin in the service during Vietnam?

    IIRC, Garry Maddox's nickname was Sarge.

    Replies: @tony_k, @Former Darfur, @Truth

    “IIRC, Garry Maddox’s nickname was Sarge.”

    “Two thirds of the world is covered by water…the other third by Garry Maddox…”

  140. @Jonathan Revusky
    @Steve Sailer


    1970s Zebra Murders
     
    Mr. Sailer, have you ever looked into the deep history of this time period? For example, does the term Cointelpro ring a bell for you?

    At that point in time, State agents had infiltrated every anti-System group. It was basically impossible for any groups, whether the Black Panthers or the KKK for the matter, to really do anything significant without the FBI knowing about it. So, for me, what is odd in this Zebra Murders narrative is that they are able to go on a killing spree over a period of half a year and, seemingly, the authorities have no clue what is going on and are helpless to put a stop to it. For half a year.

    Well, quite frankly, I do not claim to know what happened. What I find, though, is that if you ever seriously investigate cases like these, you almost invariably end up concluding that what really happened is something very different from the official narrative.

    By the way, a similar analysis applies to these recent terrorist events in France (and Belgium). The milieu that these supposed terrorists operate in is completely infiltrated by agents of the State. It is, to all intents and purposes, impossible for these people to be planning and carrying out these terrorist acts right under the noses of the authorities.

    I don't follow what you write that closely, but you seem to be part of a group of people here who just assume that whatever the official narrative on such events is necessarily true.

    Well, Mr. Sailer, maybe you should wise up a bit and realize that, whatever the official story is.... it ain't necessarily so....

    Replies: @Jefferson, @David In TN, @Truth

    “Well, Mr. Sailer, maybe you should wise up a bit and realize that, whatever the official story is…. it ain’t necessarily so….”

    you hit it directly on the eyeball there Padna…that is, unless Steve is “one of ‘them’” (wink).

  141. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Steve Sailer

    Hendrix was definitely cool.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKvnQYFhGCc

    Replies: @Truth

    “Hendrix was definitely cool.”

    I don’t know Old Sport; I think it’s just marketing mixed with nostalgia. I mean, after all, don’t all “dead” celebrities get “cooler” with the passage of time?

  142. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe the answers are out there…

    Zebra murders:

    “…A group of male Black Muslims who called themselves the “Death Angels” committed at least 15 murders and 8 attempted murders, mostly against white victims. However, some authorities believe they may have killed as many as 73 or more victims…

    …”The San Francisco–based Death Angels may have killed more people in the early to mid-1970s than all the other serial killers operating during that period combined”…

    …The murders caused widespread panic in San Francisco. …

    …Acting on a lawsuit filed by the NAACP and the ACLU, U.S. District Judge Alfonso J. Zirpoli ruled the widespread profiling of blacks was unconstitutional…

    …With the offer of a $30,000 reward came a break in the Zebra case. Anthony Harris, an employee at the Black Self-Help Moving and Storage, called police a week after the sketches had been posted… provided specific details regarding several of the attacks that the police never had released to the public…

    …Harris revealed the existence of the group to the police, and told them of a homicide that did not make the papers; it was that of a homeless man… brought the man to Black Self-Help Moving’s warehouse, gagged and tied him up, and while he was still conscious, took turns hacking away his limbs…”

    I think the guy who turned was worried (with good reason) that the gang had decided to kill him, for some reason.

    Art Agnos, mayor of San Franciso, was shot and almost killed by the Zebra killers:

    Art Agnos:

    “…39th mayor of San Francisco, California from 1988 to 1992…

    …a member of the California Commission on Aging, was attending a meeting in the largely black public housing project… After the meeting concluded, he was shot twice at point blank range; Agnos being one of two victims shot that day in a series of attacks known as the Zebra murders…

    …The attack were perpetrated by the members of an offshoot of the Nation of Islam, in which so-called “points” were earned by killing a white person. Agnos nearly died in the shooting…”

    A lot of the public Zebra killings were pretty similar and pretty effective. One man would walk up to a group of whites standing around (as at a bus stop) and shot one victim multiple times with a .32 Berreta pistol, then run away.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    @anonymous


    Maybe the answers are out there…

    (link to wikipedia page)
     
    Look, all that wikipedia ever does with something like this is repeat the official line. This is the case with JFK or 9/11 or any of these other very murky terrorist events. To point to the wikipedia page as proof of the official story is equivalent to offering up the official story as proof of the official story.

    The deeper problem here is that a lot of people choose to believe whatever narrative, not really because it's that believable or anything, but rather, because it gives them emotional satisfaction to believe it.

    In my view, whatever you think of the Nation of Islam, the notion that the NOI is an organization that would just be killing random white people just for the heck of it -- this is patently ludicrous.

    Again, I am quite uncertain as to what really happened. What I can say is that if I could bet money, I would bet very heavily that whatever did happen is NOT what they say happened.
    , @syonredux
    @anonymous

    I wouldn't really bother arguing with this Revusky fellow. He seems very close- minded

  143. @Hippopotamusdrome
    @PiltdownMan



    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…

     

    Some excerpts of the poem he recited.


    Muhammad Ali recites a poem during a interview in Ireland AMAZING
    ...
    Battle far from all I see
    To die fightin' to be free
    What more fitting end to be
    [unintelligible]
    ... lingering until I'm dead
    ...
    Let me die by bein' black
    ...
    If theres any [unintelligible] I've got
    Kill me here on the spot
    Better far my fight to wage
    Now while my blood boils with rage
    ..
    Makin' peace is to live a lie

     

    If you liked that, you'll also like this poem in a simalar vein.


    SNL Eddie Murphy: Kill my landlord

    Give it here by Tyrone Red

    Darkly lonely on a summer night
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    Watchdog barking, do he bite?
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    Go in his window, break his neck
    Then his house I start to wreck
    Got no reason, what the heck?
    Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
    K-I-L-L my landlord

     

    Replies: @V Vega

    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…

    Two issues: His reading ability was allegedly at kindergarten level at that time. I would think that lack of reading comprehension might add a negative variable to the test that wasn’t intended, AND when he took the test, if you remember, he did NOT want to be drafted.

    Between those two facts, his “78 IQ” resides.

    Even if he was parroting ideas from his Islamic friends, you’ll notice when he’s put under pressure, he answers his debaters pretty darned fast. Faster than what I’d deem average speed. I don’t think that alleged IQ number is valid by a long shot. His repeated demonstrations of his intelligence, while under pressure, mind you, doesn’t comport with anyone I’ve ever known to be “not that bright.”

    I think 110-120 would be more like it. Possibly higher, certainly no lower.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @V Vega


    I think 110-120 would be more like it. Possibly higher, certainly no lower.
     
    Black American mean is 85. Maybe Ali was 95-105.
    , @Hibernian
    @V Vega

    I think at least 105.

  144. @MQ
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    BTW, this is why there are “IQ fetishists”. Some propagandist comes along, preaches some silly idea like the one above, and the left half of the bell curve will believe it. They can cause much damage to society.

    good lord, are we now going to have people claim that high IQ/high 'g' people don't believe silly ideas that cause damage to society? Look around you, folks!

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    But to identify it with intelligence full stop is a bit silly and shows a lack of experience of life.

    Tests perform a concrete practical function. Many institutitions such as colleges and the military use tests to screen their applicants. If scores on the tests didn’t predict future performance, the tests would be worthless and would not be used Tests perform an important practical function and a lot of manpower is invested in designing tests that accurately predict future performance.

  145. @Jefferson
    Muhammad Ali started making 7 figures per fight in the 1970s and early 1980s.

    That is still a lot of money today, so can you imagine how much money it was in the 1970s and early 1980s when you adjust for inflation.

    1981 was interesting because it was the year that both Muhammad Ali & Walter Cronkite retired and the 1970s pop culture juggernaut show The Midnight Special came to an end. 1981 was the last cultural remnants of the 1970s.

    It was a cultural transition from the 1970s to the 1980s. Goodbye Jimmy Carter, Muhammad Ali, and Walter Cronkite. Hello Ronald Reagan, Mike Tyson, and I want my MTV. Goodbye Saturday Night Fever, hello Footloose.

    Replies: @ChaseBizzy

    1981: NeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeWWWWWWWWWWWWW Wave.

  146. @anonymous
    Maybe the answers are out there...

    Zebra murders:


    "...A group of male Black Muslims who called themselves the "Death Angels" committed at least 15 murders and 8 attempted murders, mostly against white victims. However, some authorities believe they may have killed as many as 73 or more victims...

    ..."The San Francisco–based Death Angels may have killed more people in the early to mid-1970s than all the other serial killers operating during that period combined"...

    ...The murders caused widespread panic in San Francisco. ...

    ...Acting on a lawsuit filed by the NAACP and the ACLU, U.S. District Judge Alfonso J. Zirpoli ruled the widespread profiling of blacks was unconstitutional...

    ...With the offer of a $30,000 reward came a break in the Zebra case. Anthony Harris, an employee at the Black Self-Help Moving and Storage, called police a week after the sketches had been posted... provided specific details regarding several of the attacks that the police never had released to the public...

    ...Harris revealed the existence of the group to the police, and told them of a homicide that did not make the papers; it was that of a homeless man... brought the man to Black Self-Help Moving's warehouse, gagged and tied him up, and while he was still conscious, took turns hacking away his limbs..."

     

    I think the guy who turned was worried (with good reason) that the gang had decided to kill him, for some reason.

    Art Agnos, mayor of San Franciso, was shot and almost killed by the Zebra killers:

    Art Agnos:


    "...39th mayor of San Francisco, California from 1988 to 1992...

    ...a member of the California Commission on Aging, was attending a meeting in the largely black public housing project... After the meeting concluded, he was shot twice at point blank range; Agnos being one of two victims shot that day in a series of attacks known as the Zebra murders...

    ...The attack were perpetrated by the members of an offshoot of the Nation of Islam, in which so-called "points" were earned by killing a white person. Agnos nearly died in the shooting..."

     

    A lot of the public Zebra killings were pretty similar and pretty effective. One man would walk up to a group of whites standing around (as at a bus stop) and shot one victim multiple times with a .32 Berreta pistol, then run away.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky, @syonredux

    Maybe the answers are out there…

    (link to wikipedia page)

    Look, all that wikipedia ever does with something like this is repeat the official line. This is the case with JFK or 9/11 or any of these other very murky terrorist events. To point to the wikipedia page as proof of the official story is equivalent to offering up the official story as proof of the official story.

    The deeper problem here is that a lot of people choose to believe whatever narrative, not really because it’s that believable or anything, but rather, because it gives them emotional satisfaction to believe it.

    In my view, whatever you think of the Nation of Islam, the notion that the NOI is an organization that would just be killing random white people just for the heck of it — this is patently ludicrous.

    Again, I am quite uncertain as to what really happened. What I can say is that if I could bet money, I would bet very heavily that whatever did happen is NOT what they say happened.

  147. @flyingtiger
    I stopped drinking because I have to reduce my sugar intake. I bought a beer to celebrate the death of that infamous draft dodger Cassius Clay. (I refuse to recognize his slave name.) The only other exception was for the death of General Giap. In both cases I said, it should have happened sooner.

    The bible is a well written and well organized document. There are only a few contradictions which can be easily explained. The Koran is a mess and contradicts itself so many times. Only a fool can believe the Koran.

    Replies: @anon, @AndrewR, @Eustace Tilley (not), @Bill Jones, @ChaseBizzy

    No Vietnamese ever called me honkey either. How about you McNamara, Hoffman/Rubin and Ho M work out your differences in a greasy pool of I DON’T GIVE A F..K. Limbaugh, Hewitt, Bush Jr. and Bill Kristol can be the judges.

  148. @James Braxton
    Something I have wondered:

    Were there any other well known athletes/celebrities who were drafted during the Vietnam era or who volunteered?

    I can't think of any. And I don't mean people like Oliver Stone who became famous later.

    It seems odd that Ali is pretty much the only famous Vietnam draftee.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Das, @Olorin, @ChaseBizzy

    Gary Lewis of Gary Lewis and The Playboys?

  149. @Jefferson
    Who is the most well known famous Muslim in the world among Infidels, Osama Bin Laden or Muhammad Ali? Or is it a tie?

    Replies: @ChaseBizzy

    The former Cat Stevens?

  150. @Anonymous
    What is a fact today is that European heavyweight boxers have intimidated black Americans right out of the competition. The tables have turned.

    A heavyweight black boxer getting into the ring today doesn't face Jerry Cooney. He faces an assortment of angry white Euro guys with no f***s given about black victimization.

    Ali faced the weakest crew of white boxers in history.

    Replies: @Michelle, @ChaseBizzy, @ChaseBizzy

    Sonny Liston , Joe Frazier , George Foreman , Ken Norton . Yes Randall Cobb was tough and so was that Wepner guy.

  151. @Anonymous
    What is a fact today is that European heavyweight boxers have intimidated black Americans right out of the competition. The tables have turned.

    A heavyweight black boxer getting into the ring today doesn't face Jerry Cooney. He faces an assortment of angry white Euro guys with no f***s given about black victimization.

    Ali faced the weakest crew of white boxers in history.

    Replies: @Michelle, @ChaseBizzy, @ChaseBizzy

    At thirty-eight years of age Ali lasted ten rounds with a 36-0 Larry Holmes.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @ChaseBizzy

    The funny thing about Ali was that he was just incredibly tough. He paid a big price for all those punches he took, but, man, was he ever brave.

    For example, it was Joe Frazier's corner who threw in the towel rather than send Joe out for a 15th round in Manila against Ali. They figured it was a tradeoff between Joe maybe winning this rubber match against Ali versus Joe being able to spend a few decades on the golf course enjoying his hard earned purses.

    I always admired Michael Spinks for being in boxing just for the money and for fighting as little as possible.

    Replies: @Dwright

  152. @Michelle
    @Anonymous

    Oh puleeze, if you enjoy that slow, flat footed style of boxing. I do not! The Klitschko brothers are a joke, just obscenely oversized. The white, British boxers are pathetic. Prime example, the weak, windmilling, noodle armed Calzaghe. Give me an effing break. Some of the white fighters have heart, but none of them, none, have the speed power or reflexes to make a fight exciting. Mexican fighters are like fighting cocks, quick and tenacious. Europeans, just slow, boring and desperate. Ali, of course, deteriorated into the "Rope a dope", style which was a travesty and Floyd Mayweather recently used it against Pacquiao, successfully. Name one European fighter who is not "a person of color" who is in any way a superior boxer.

    Replies: @anonymous

    The Klitschko brothers are a joke, just obscenely oversized. The white, British boxers are patheti

    A stupid comment from a female who knows nothing about boxing. Not knowing squat about something doesn’t keep some people from making sweeping pronouncements as though they’re experts.

  153. If only Ali had a slightly above average IQ than he could have dodged the draft the legitimate way. A non-scholarship college student could still fight professionally right?

  154. @ChaseBizzy
    @Anonymous

    At thirty-eight years of age Ali lasted ten rounds with a 36-0 Larry Holmes.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The funny thing about Ali was that he was just incredibly tough. He paid a big price for all those punches he took, but, man, was he ever brave.

    For example, it was Joe Frazier’s corner who threw in the towel rather than send Joe out for a 15th round in Manila against Ali. They figured it was a tradeoff between Joe maybe winning this rubber match against Ali versus Joe being able to spend a few decades on the golf course enjoying his hard earned purses.

    I always admired Michael Spinks for being in boxing just for the money and for fighting as little as possible.

    • Replies: @Dwright
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes, he could take a punch with the very best of them. That's what eventually destroyed him or sure as hell made his condition much worse.

  155. @Steve Sailer
    @ChaseBizzy

    The funny thing about Ali was that he was just incredibly tough. He paid a big price for all those punches he took, but, man, was he ever brave.

    For example, it was Joe Frazier's corner who threw in the towel rather than send Joe out for a 15th round in Manila against Ali. They figured it was a tradeoff between Joe maybe winning this rubber match against Ali versus Joe being able to spend a few decades on the golf course enjoying his hard earned purses.

    I always admired Michael Spinks for being in boxing just for the money and for fighting as little as possible.

    Replies: @Dwright

    Yes, he could take a punch with the very best of them. That’s what eventually destroyed him or sure as hell made his condition much worse.

  156. @countenance
    I don't hold his "draft dodging" against him. After all, who wanted to go and die in that useless meat grinder? Even though someone as famous as him probably wouldn't have been sent to active combat. Remember, Elvis was drafted, too, and from what I understand, his duties in service were rather plum. Even though when Elvis was in, we weren't involved in any kind of hot conflict.

    But as far as his reasoning for not wanting to go to 'Nam? He needed to miss us with that by five hundred yards.

    First off, wherever Muslims go, there always seems to be war or terrorism. Some peaceful religion, huh?

    Second, his draft status was changed to 1-A in February 1966. Contra his notion that he was being sent to "fight" for a racist country, by that time, the Federal government had legislatively passed a major civil rights act which was already being enforced, a major voting rights act which was already being enforced, we had kritarchily dismantled formal school segregation, and two different Presidents had issued two different executive orders which got the ball rolling on affirmative action.

    No, he just didn't want to lose his athletic prime. Turns out he did anyway.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Contra his notion that he was being sent to “fight” for a racist country. . .

    No civil rights laws that are passed, no affirmative action, no constant praising of blacks and shaming of whites, no suppression of facts that would damage the image of blacks, no black president elected, will ever persuade blacks that this is no longer a racist country, so no use pursuing that line of argument.

  157. @Steve Richter
    I fault this article for diminishing the role of Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad in both Ali's life and that of Black America. Their's was a message of black self reliance and independence. Maybe the supernatural stuff was a part of the NOI because Blacks were just incapable of building their own society. Violence and doctrine being necessary to provide structure to the movement. But still, I think these ideas and efforts of both Malcolm and Elijah were significant. And they certainly shaped Cassius Clay from early in his adult life.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    There’s a great passage in John Updike’s The Coup in which the future African leader, then in college in America, said this in a discussion with his friends about Black Muslim dogma:

    “It takes a mountain of myth to make even a grain of difference. It takes Mr. Yacub and the Isle of Patmos to make a man in the ghetto put on a suit. Oscar, you say Allah showed up in Detroit in 1930 in the person of a raincoat peddler called W. D. Fard and then disappeared in 1934; the Christians say He showed up in Jerusalem in the year 30 and then disappeared in the year 33. What is the result of these incredible rumors? Slaves lift their heads a fraction of an inch higher. Is this enough result? It is. Nothing less will produce any result at all. The dictatorship of the proletariat, the divinity of this or that itinerant–the crucial question isn’t Can you prove it? but Does it give us a handle on the reality that otherwise would overwhelm us?”

  158. @James N. Kennett
    It is indeed interesting that a Professor of Black Studies has so much insight and is neither a race hustler nor a promoter of dumbed-down ideas.

    Perhaps the subject isn't as bad as many of us believe.

    Replies: @JimL

    He may be the most legitimate scholar in the entire field.

  159. @V Vega
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…
     
    Two issues: His reading ability was allegedly at kindergarten level at that time. I would think that lack of reading comprehension might add a negative variable to the test that wasn't intended, AND when he took the test, if you remember, he did NOT want to be drafted.

    Between those two facts, his "78 IQ" resides.

    Even if he was parroting ideas from his Islamic friends, you'll notice when he's put under pressure, he answers his debaters pretty darned fast. Faster than what I'd deem average speed. I don't think that alleged IQ number is valid by a long shot. His repeated demonstrations of his intelligence, while under pressure, mind you, doesn't comport with anyone I've ever known to be "not that bright."

    I think 110-120 would be more like it. Possibly higher, certainly no lower.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Hibernian

    I think 110-120 would be more like it. Possibly higher, certainly no lower.

    Black American mean is 85. Maybe Ali was 95-105.

  160. @anonymous
    Maybe the answers are out there...

    Zebra murders:


    "...A group of male Black Muslims who called themselves the "Death Angels" committed at least 15 murders and 8 attempted murders, mostly against white victims. However, some authorities believe they may have killed as many as 73 or more victims...

    ..."The San Francisco–based Death Angels may have killed more people in the early to mid-1970s than all the other serial killers operating during that period combined"...

    ...The murders caused widespread panic in San Francisco. ...

    ...Acting on a lawsuit filed by the NAACP and the ACLU, U.S. District Judge Alfonso J. Zirpoli ruled the widespread profiling of blacks was unconstitutional...

    ...With the offer of a $30,000 reward came a break in the Zebra case. Anthony Harris, an employee at the Black Self-Help Moving and Storage, called police a week after the sketches had been posted... provided specific details regarding several of the attacks that the police never had released to the public...

    ...Harris revealed the existence of the group to the police, and told them of a homicide that did not make the papers; it was that of a homeless man... brought the man to Black Self-Help Moving's warehouse, gagged and tied him up, and while he was still conscious, took turns hacking away his limbs..."

     

    I think the guy who turned was worried (with good reason) that the gang had decided to kill him, for some reason.

    Art Agnos, mayor of San Franciso, was shot and almost killed by the Zebra killers:

    Art Agnos:


    "...39th mayor of San Francisco, California from 1988 to 1992...

    ...a member of the California Commission on Aging, was attending a meeting in the largely black public housing project... After the meeting concluded, he was shot twice at point blank range; Agnos being one of two victims shot that day in a series of attacks known as the Zebra murders...

    ...The attack were perpetrated by the members of an offshoot of the Nation of Islam, in which so-called "points" were earned by killing a white person. Agnos nearly died in the shooting..."

     

    A lot of the public Zebra killings were pretty similar and pretty effective. One man would walk up to a group of whites standing around (as at a bus stop) and shot one victim multiple times with a .32 Berreta pistol, then run away.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky, @syonredux

    I wouldn’t really bother arguing with this Revusky fellow. He seems very close- minded

  161. @James Braxton
    @Desiderius

    I think that is what Hendrix told people to justify his discharge. It sounds better than getting kicked out for masturbating on duty. Nothing in his personnel file indicates he ever went to jump school

    Replies: @Hibernian

    At one time, in elite units, support personnel were jump qualified.

  162. @V Vega
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    After viewing this clip today for the first time, I’m having a hard time with the whole 78 IQ thing…
     
    Two issues: His reading ability was allegedly at kindergarten level at that time. I would think that lack of reading comprehension might add a negative variable to the test that wasn't intended, AND when he took the test, if you remember, he did NOT want to be drafted.

    Between those two facts, his "78 IQ" resides.

    Even if he was parroting ideas from his Islamic friends, you'll notice when he's put under pressure, he answers his debaters pretty darned fast. Faster than what I'd deem average speed. I don't think that alleged IQ number is valid by a long shot. His repeated demonstrations of his intelligence, while under pressure, mind you, doesn't comport with anyone I've ever known to be "not that bright."

    I think 110-120 would be more like it. Possibly higher, certainly no lower.

    Replies: @syonredux, @Hibernian

    I think at least 105.

  163. if you remember, he did NOT want to be drafted

    An average intelligence man should be able to answer most of the questions wrong. If Ali was aiming at a rating of imbecile to be let off, he did poorly.

    But all IQ scores from the military annals, during the draft era and an ongoing war, should be viewed with skepticism, as You imply.

  164. @TangoMan
    OT- Time Magazine has an interesting article on assortative mating and dives deep into Jewish and Mormon communities.

    Multiple studies show that college-educated Americans are increasingly reluctant to marry those lacking a college degree. This bias is having a devastating impact on the dating market for college-educated women. Why? According to 2012 population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, there are 5.5 million college-educated women in the U.S. between the ages of 22 and 29 versus 4.1 million such men. That’s four women for every three men. Among college grads age 30 to 39, there are 7.4 million women versus 6.0 million men—five women for every four men. . . .

    According to the ARIS study, there are now 150 Mormon women for every 100 Mormon men in the state of Utah—a 50 percent oversupply of women. . . .

    Secular-style dating is rare in the Orthodox community in which Elefant lives. Most marriages are loosely arranged—“guided” is probably a better word—by matchmakers such as Elefant. The shadchan’s job has been made exceedingly difficult, she said, by a mysterious increase in the number of unmarried women within the Orthodox community. When Elefant attended Jewish high school 30 years ago, “there were maybe three girls that didn’t get married by the time they were twenty or twenty-one,” she said. “Today, if you look at the girls who graduated five years ago, there are probably thirty girls who are not yet married. Overall, there are thousands of unmarried girls in their late twenties. It’s total chaos.” . . .

    The Utah LDS church was in fact 52 percent female as recently as 1990. Since 1990, however, the Mormon gender gap in Utah has widened dramatically—from a gender ratio of 52:48 female to male in 1990 to 60:40 female to male in 2008, according to a study coauthored by ARIS researchers Rick Phillips, Ryan Cragun, and Barry Kosmin. In other words, the LDS church in Utah now has three women for every two men.

     

    Replies: @27 year old, @Big Bill, @AnotherDad

    Interesting info Tango, thanks for posting.

    Did not know the Mormon gap was so big. I suspect defection skews heavily male for all the obvious reasons of difference in personality (conformity) and religiosity between the sexes. As Bill notes, it’s a shame for all these women who want to be women–a most delightful thing in today’s world–to be just sitting there “unused.” I actually think a lot of the Mormon thing, the family focus and look-out-for-each-other community is pretty great stuff. It would be an attractive prospect for tradition minded outsiders, except … the whole theology is just too loony. It’s too bad there isn’t something “Mormon like” for non-koolaid-drinkers.

    Perhaps in a few years when polygamy is thoroughly legalized because of Muslims, some more mainstream polygamous Mormon sects can spring up and soak up this female surplus, which will also make the whole faith more appealing to young men–the smart, attractive, successful ones who have their ducks in a row.

    ~~~

    One really bad skew the article doesn’t dive into is for black college educated women. There are simply way, way more college grad black women, then men. Women–naturally hypogamous–a very reluctant to date “down”. And the black college educated men, have plentiful dating opportunities, including among more feminine, non-black women. (A gal I was friendly with in my previous job, was in this demographic–just looking for a decent black guy–and they are not in a happy situation.)

    The result is a disaster. College educated black women have one of the lowest fertility rates of any demographic group–around 1, i saw in a article a few years back. If you think blacks have low IQ now … this is making it worse, much worse. It’s counter-balanced a bit perhaps by the inflow from white couplings. But the white women who mudshark don’t tend to be forward thinking IQ heavy types (though they still average above the black norm). So it’s not clear it balances out. It’s possible blacks are getting whiter and dumber at the same time.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    @AnotherDad


    It’s possible blacks are getting whiter and dumber at the same time.
     
    It is possible that whites are getting blacker. Last year when a baby was cut out of the womb of a Colorado woman I noticed that the accused, Dynel Lane, was mixed with black but identified as white. LINK.

    Many mixed-race blacks won't identify as black but as "mixed-raced". Good or bad they will rarely affect black stats.

    The percentage of blacks in the population has remained steady for decades due to immigration and black immigrants with maybe the exception of Somalis are smarter than native blacks. Immigrant groups are so large and distinct now that they can find partners within their own group and maintain their cultural values and not regress to the native black mean. j
  165. “The public rarely responds to this sort of demise of a great popular performer with anything approaching good sense or objectivity, and almost certainly with nothing approaching a kind of gracious humor, something that, in this case, the subject himself may very much embrace and seems to be trying to instruct us in how to achieve. This is even less likely to happen when the figure in question is a black man, a cunning archetype who is already so burdened by a baggage of both sentimentality and taboo as to be likely a virtual walking expression of the culture’s irrationality even if his old age had been a bit less marked by illness. ”

    This Gerald Early, in his first two sentences blows away the attention span with two disjointed, hideous, run-ons. These are just the first two, but the piece is filled with them. Don’t they use editors? Typical academic.

  166. Doubtless, as Sheed points out, Ali had a martyr’s complex, which is why he became a member of the Nation of Islam, not because he felt the slings and arrows of outrageous racism (Ali had a very indulged life, from boyhood on) but because he wanted “to [take] on the scars of his brothers.”

    “Obama had a messianic complex, which is why he became Leader of the Free (for the Taking) World, not because he felt the slings and arrows of outrageous racism (Obama had a very indulged life, from boyhood on) but because he could not awake from his dreams of his father.”

    – From the foreword to The Barack Obama Reader (2036)

  167. @AnotherDad
    @TangoMan

    Interesting info Tango, thanks for posting.

    Did not know the Mormon gap was so big. I suspect defection skews heavily male for all the obvious reasons of difference in personality (conformity) and religiosity between the sexes. As Bill notes, it's a shame for all these women who want to be women--a most delightful thing in today's world--to be just sitting there "unused." I actually think a lot of the Mormon thing, the family focus and look-out-for-each-other community is pretty great stuff. It would be an attractive prospect for tradition minded outsiders, except ... the whole theology is just too loony. It's too bad there isn't something "Mormon like" for non-koolaid-drinkers.

    Perhaps in a few years when polygamy is thoroughly legalized because of Muslims, some more mainstream polygamous Mormon sects can spring up and soak up this female surplus, which will also make the whole faith more appealing to young men--the smart, attractive, successful ones who have their ducks in a row.

    ~~~

    One really bad skew the article doesn't dive into is for black college educated women. There are simply way, way more college grad black women, then men. Women--naturally hypogamous--a very reluctant to date "down". And the black college educated men, have plentiful dating opportunities, including among more feminine, non-black women. (A gal I was friendly with in my previous job, was in this demographic--just looking for a decent black guy--and they are not in a happy situation.)

    The result is a disaster. College educated black women have one of the lowest fertility rates of any demographic group--around 1, i saw in a article a few years back. If you think blacks have low IQ now ... this is making it worse, much worse. It's counter-balanced a bit perhaps by the inflow from white couplings. But the white women who mudshark don't tend to be forward thinking IQ heavy types (though they still average above the black norm). So it's not clear it balances out. It's possible blacks are getting whiter and dumber at the same time.

    Replies: @Triumph104

    It’s possible blacks are getting whiter and dumber at the same time.

    It is possible that whites are getting blacker. Last year when a baby was cut out of the womb of a Colorado woman I noticed that the accused, Dynel Lane, was mixed with black but identified as white. LINK.

    Many mixed-race blacks won’t identify as black but as “mixed-raced”. Good or bad they will rarely affect black stats.

    The percentage of blacks in the population has remained steady for decades due to immigration and black immigrants with maybe the exception of Somalis are smarter than native blacks. Immigrant groups are so large and distinct now that they can find partners within their own group and maintain their cultural values and not regress to the native black mean. j

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