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George Floyd and the Dunbar Number
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From the Mercatus Center:

Looking-Glass Politics

Jul 14, 2020
With the collapse of the private sphere, potent private emotions collide with public affairs
Martin Gurri, Visiting Research Fellow

An unconquerable anger has gripped the democratic world. The public seethes with feelings of grievance and seems ready to wreak havoc at any provocation. The spasm of fury that swept the United States after the death of George Floyd cost 19 additional lives and $400 million in property damage. …

Many books and articles have tried to explain this surge in anger. … The Harvard Gazette’s recent “Why America Can’t Escape Its Racist Roots” can stand in for an Amazonian stream of similar articles.

Anger is a huge story and thus a fat analytical target. Most of these explanations have some merit to them. However, all take it for granted that the anger is justified—the analyst’s job is simply to discover a cause commensurate with its enormity.

… Arnold Kling, to my knowledge, stands virtually alone in suggesting that the tide of political anger need not have matching political causes. He has wondered, instead, whether extreme private emotions have been diverted by the web into the public sphere. Kling brings up an interesting number: 150. Roughly speaking, that is how many persons you can remember before names, faces, and situations begin to get fuzzy. It’s often called the “Dunbar number,” after British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who first identified this cognitive boundary in a 1992 paper, and it probably represents the hard-wiring in our minds of some maximum hunter-gatherer band size.

Has this Dunbar number theory ever been tested? It’s quite popular, but I mostly see it used in an “As everybody knows” sense.

Each of us carries along, in our everyday activities, a band of 150 people whom we can identify with fair accuracy. This humble Dunbar world provides the stage for the drama of most human lives and is the source of the most authentic human emotions. From ancestral times, the pursuit of happiness has played out almost entirely within this domain.

Kling has noted a strange development: the shock of the digital has brought the Dunbar world to the verge of collapse. Historically, he writes, the “sub-Dunbar” public concerned itself mostly with “family, friends, and co-workers.” Elites in the “super-Dunbar” world ran the “government and large organizations.” He goes on:

But new media have caused the two spheres to collide. The public feels itself on the same playing field as the elites. Anyone can comment on Twitter. So people who never used to think much about the super-Dunbar world are now trying to take part in it.

Ultimately, Kling concludes, “you feel a lot more sense of ownership of what’s going on in public life, and you care about it a lot more.” Strong personal feelings have been torn loose from the private sphere and become attached to the distant world of events.

Or, perhaps, the opposite has happened as well: elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.

A lot of people can’t deal well with criticism. They feel like they are about to be attacked by a mob and murdered when they get a few dozen tweets making fun of them. I think that’s a better application of this Dunbar Number: If people get 76 negative responses on social media, they worry, “Oh, no, the majority of my tribe of 150 has spoken out against me! I will be made an outcast and forced to wander alone in the wilderness.”

The Floyd protests fit into this pattern. The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis, were local and fleeting but took place before a battery of cell phone cameras—and at once became global and searchable. The public experienced a digital murder. Because it was visual, it felt personal. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend. Because his death was searchable, it turned into a recurring nightmare, a wound that could not heal.

Social media rage, which feeds on itself, soon forgot the actual events and demanded cosmic and abstract judgments. This was not about George Floyd after all. This was about a monstrous injustice called “systemic racism.”

OK, but once again, is there any evidence that elites of the “Super-Dunbar” dealt more rationally with the George Floyd whoop-tee-doo? How many of them came out and said:

“Look, there are 20,000,000 black guys in America. That’s a huge number. There is always one of that 20,000,000 doing something knuckleheaded and winding up dead. You can’t let yourself go insane over some drugged-up bouncer in Minnesota. We may feel emotionally like we live in a tribe of 150, but we don’t. It’s actually a huge country, so restrain your out-of-control emotions and think sensibly. It’s just the power of The Megaphone to make you believe that George Floyd or Emmett Till is representative. Don’t fall for the statistically nonsensical Narrative.”

I sure haven’t heard many elites from the “super-Dunbar” pointing that out.

 
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  1. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend.

    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    • Troll: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    This remark of yours has not only a sarcastic side to it. It runs deeper in my eyes. Death is where normally religion kicks in - because death hints at questions that in an everyday context can't be answered but are there nonetheless.

    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has - - - - - found God.

    Add to that, that in the Christian religion, the converted sinner is ranking morally quite high.

    Luke 15:7

    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

    Replies: @reactionry, @HallParvey, @Crawfurdmuir, @Charlotte

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Buzz Mohawk

    This is a really excellent joke. Not only is it very funny, it is very true. And it very succinctly points out the folly of accepting this very poor replacement for real religion, and implicitly points out how many people (especially the young women so prevalent at Floyd protests) can't function meaningfully without the structure of a religion, whether a real one or a fake one.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Alexander Turok

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Hit "Troll" on my phone by mistake. Oh my George.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Adam Smith, @HammerJack

    , @advancedatheist
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    I can see why this would trigger the readers here: It reminds them of the simple-minded Christianity that many of us grew up with.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    , @donut
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend."

    That's absurd , Floyd was a POS that anyone with any common sense would give a wide berth . Good riddance .

  2. Is there a gender bias (favoring women) in the Dunbar number? Anecdotally, my wife for example must be up to 300+ whereas I would struggle to hit 150. I think that such a gender bias could be common. That might also feed into the gender-related difference in reactions to the Floyd incident.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Peter Johnson


    Is there a gender bias...
     
    Appears to be a continuum thing: women more than men in general; some men are the outliers with thousands, e.g. bill clinton; I heard of a dairy farmer who named all two thousand of this cows.
    , @Neoconned
    @Peter Johnson

    My Dunbar number probably wouldn't exceed 50 ppl. If that....

    Anyway i think this is more a case of playing hot potato. Blm basically threw a flaming hot piece of ash into the bare hands of the elites. Rather than put the fire out they tossed the ember....hence the dumpster fire...our elites are lazy....and debauched....

    , @anonymous 389
    @Peter Johnson

    wwebd said ----- Peter Johnson - I respectfully disagree (with a claim that women may have a naturally higher D number). You are probably a hard working guy with a good salary, and a focus on your work and on being virtuous, which is why you have the type of wife who has 300 plus people she cares about (for perspective, if you were a low-IQ guy banging a meth-head prostitute, 10 would be her high number on a good day. Trust me - except for the meth and the prostitution, there is nothing wrong with a gf like that - but it is what it is). If you were the sort of semi-on-the-spectrum cubicle-dweller net-working low T guy who cannot focus on high-paying independent tasks, you would probably be married to a normal woman with the normal 40 or so connections, and would probably be somewhere around 40 yourself, and the idea would never cross your mind that women are better at the D number.

    General MacArthur and Nimitz, both high-T guys, were somewhere around 5 or 10,000 (in other words, they knew about 5 or 10 thousand fellow officers or NCOs well enough to correctly assign them difficult tasks). In my short unprosperous 10 years in the military, I reached close to a thousand. Not counting my non-military contacts. Which is why they have about five to ten times as many medals as me (numerically) and were thousands of times more influential than me (tens or hundreds of thousands? work the exponentials, and you will get the answer. It has to be closer to hundreds of thousands than tens of thousands).

    Personally, as I am aging out from this world, I am somewhere near 10,000, although of course I do not interact with more than a handful on any given day (I am what used to be called a novelist, but there is no money in that, and anyway I am not about to publish the kind of extremely detailed novel I like to write under the current post-idiocracy regime) so I am just some guy that people like to hang out with when I am not spending hours every day straightening out fantastically complicated accounting narratives, such as not to enrage any of the thousands of people who react to my finished product.

    My best guess is that women cannot have an advantage - taken on the average - on this because, let's face it, to succeed in life as a woman there is very little up-side to a number much bigger than 200 or the famous 150. And for women there is the downside that a few psychos in the network is very dangerous, for most guys, knowing a few psychos just gives you the opportunity to play them off against each other, with little real physical danger. In short, for guys, huge networks like the 5K or 10K of Nimitz or MacArthur can be very rewarding. For women, what's the point?

    , @Ben tillman
    @Peter Johnson

    As it happens, I was just thinking of this 150 thing a couple of days ago. 150 is far too low. 800 sounds about right.

  3. The Floyd protests fit into this pattern. The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis, were local and fleeting but took place before a battery of cell phone cameras—and at once became global and searchable. The public experienced a digital murder. Because it was visual, it felt personal. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend. Because his death was searchable, it turned into a recurring nightmare, a wound that could not heal.

    There is no shortage of horrific, violent crime visited upon white people, and incredibly enough a fair amount of it is available for view on YouTube and similar platforms. At least until the site moderators find out about it. The reason a criminal like George Floyd is made into an international media sensation–while no one’s even heard of John Geer, for instance–isn’t a matter of technology. It’s a matter of which examples the owners of the mass media decide to select and amplify. And in that, a pattern exists.

    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
    @Mr McKenna

    And why did they (the media) pick such an unsympathetic victim this time? Was it perhaps intentional?

    Replies: @HammerJack

    , @Able
    @Mr McKenna

    another example is the elderly couple gunned down at the Delaware cemetary

  4. Anon[169] • Disclaimer says:

    Most SJWs have a personality disorder, and they don’t deal well with the internet. The interesting thing is, the rioters are the ones who grew up with the internet. Even though they’ve had years to learn how to handle it and set emotional barriers between it and themselves, they can’t. Everything that happens on the net is personal to them. They internalize someone else’s outrage, and launch attacks on perfect strangers because of this. Trying to get people fired, or physically attacking them for their opinions, or trying to blind a stranger with lasers because you don’t like their politics, is crazy stuff.

    A case in point:

    • Replies: @Bert
    @Anon

    I think personalization of the internet via social media is like the La Brea Tar Pit for many people with mental health problems. An early 20's female college student of my acquaintance posted nude photos of herself weekly on Twitter and Instagram, often with the Pansexual Pride flag in the background. She was a SJW online as well. Having lots of internet followers makes them crazier than they were when they first aspired to having followers. How do these kids ever free themselves from social media's dopamine vicious cycle?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Rob McX
    @Anon


    The interesting thing is, the rioters are the ones who grew up with the internet.
     
    That may be their problem. Humans have gone 200,000 years without the Internet and never adapted to the life it forces them to lead. Perhaps those with one foot in the pre-Internet world (because that's the world they grew up in) are more capable of seeing the difficulties inherent in online communication in a more balanced perspective.
    , @Neoconned
    @Anon

    What's the background on this nazi suit girl?

  5. Quite the contrary, I don’t believe anybody really cares about George Floyd. He’s just an acceptable excuse to rage and riot, which were the true objectives.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    @Intelligent Dasein

    The Left were a riot waiting for a pretext. Floyd provided it. And Blacks are always a riot waiting for a pretext.

  6. If people get 76 negative responses on social media, they worry, “Oh, no, the majority of my tribe of 150 has spoken out against me! I will be made an outcast and forced to wander along in the wilderness.”

    Yes, and you can also watch the same miserable and mis-interpretable scene again and again on every available channel from about 40 different “citizen churnalists”. If you have a Google Glass (do these still exist) you can probably watch it 24/7 beamed in your retina. That’s got to be telling your brain that this random event from nowhere has got to be somehow significant.

    For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.

    And they roundly deserve it, but it’s also very top-down controlled. “Orders from the Editor”.

    But we ARE living in unnatural times:

    We live in a world of limitless information. With technology advancing at an astonishingly fast pace, we are challenged to adapt to robotics and automated systems that threaten to replace us. Both at home and at work, an endless range of devices and Information Technology (IT) systems place demands upon our attention that human beings have never experienced before, but are our brains capable of processing it all? In this important new book, an in-depth view is taken of IT’s under-studied dark side and its dire consequences on individuals, organizations, and society. With theoretical underpinnings from the fields of cognitive psychology, management, and information systems, the idea of brain overload is defined and explored, from its impact on our decision-making and memory to how we may cope with the resultant ‘technostress’. Discussing the negative consequences of technology on work substitution, technologically induced work-family conflicts, and organizational design as well as the initiatives set up to combat these, the authors go on to propose measurement approaches for capturing the entangled aspects of IT-related overload. Concluding on an upbeat note, the book’s final chapter explores emerging technologies that can illuminate our world when mindfully managed. Designed to better equip humans for dealing with new technologies, supported by case studies, and also exploring the idea of ‘IT addiction’, the book concludes by asking how IT processes may aid rather than hinder our cognitive functioning. This is essential reading for anyone interested in how we function in the digital age.

    You have to filter like never before in history of mankind.

    (Incidentally, did you notice in those films of Beirut people looking at their mobile screen to keep the movie-taking feedback loop going as the shockwave approaches through the streets at the speed of sound to wreck their stuff in real life? That kind of thing also happens in those “peaceful riots”.)

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    @El Dato

    Where's the Butlerian Jihad when you need it?

  7. Martin Gurri makes a very importat point. – Technology brings unknown George Floyd in intimate contact with millions of people troughout the world while he dies. – And that – to put it simple: – Is too much for them. They can’t handle their emotions. And right: The elites don’t differ here at all.

    Shortly after George Flod’s death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been “murdered”.

    (It is normally frowned on in Germany to publicly talk of someone beeing a murderer as long as he has not been convicted).

    • Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder
    @Dieter Kief


    (It is normally frowned on in Germany to publicly talk of someone being a murderer as long as he has not been convicted).
     
    That's still true here in the USA except when the murderer is white.
    , @AnotherDad
    @Dieter Kief


    Shortly after George Flod’s death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been “murdered”.
     
    Just spitballing here, Dieter ... but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Fluesterwitz, @Russ, @donut

    , @Redman
    @Dieter Kief

    Same in the US actually. This is the first incident in my 50 years where the American media threw caution to the wind and decided to convict before the story was in.

    Even with Rodney King (which involved a hidden video 100 times worse than St. Floyd) the media did not jump in this way. Universal emotion seems to hold the whip hand today.

    Replies: @Prester John

    , @JerseyJeffersonian
    @Dieter Kief

    Geez, too bad there aren't any videos of any of her favorite "refugees" raping and murdering some young German girls for her to react to. The difference in her response in that instance might be very telling.

  8. Has this Dunbar number theory ever been tested? It’s quite popular, but I mostly see it used in an “As everybody knows” sense.

    I remember reading that Alexander the Great knew the names of hundreds of his officers and men, and a bit of that was illustrated in Oliver Stone’s movie.

    How many characters are there in the Iliad, and other oral epics?

    The Dunbar Number has been mentioned a lot online recently – why?

    • LOL: donut
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Dave Pinsen

    The Dunbar Number sounds good. Part of the problem with it is how you "know". Most of us recognize over 150 people; it's what we know about them that varies.

    , @Solomon the Fish
    @Dave Pinsen

    Joe “Dunbar Number” Rogan likes to bring up the Dunbar Number on his podcasts. Probably why you’re seeing it in greater circulation.

    , @donut
    @Dave Pinsen

    That LOL was a mistake .

  9. Steve, i think you’re both right. He’s right about the social media scale up. But you’re right that this isn’t just the peons. Our “elites” are used to influencing a lot of people, but they weren’t really “super-Dunbar” the masses weren’t in their social circle and didn’t talk back. No they do, and boy does it piss off the elites!

    The other thing–obvious and already heavily remarked upon–it’s only now with social media that women are really involved in intellectual and political “conversation”. Sure they were–to some extent–reading the paper or watching the news and having opinions. But they were not a significant part of the feedback and churn. They weren’t the people writing the letters to the editor or engaging in any actual debate. With social media, now women are driving our political and “intellectual” “conversation” … isn’t it great?

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @AnotherDad

    I think you've nailed it -- women are getting more deeply involved, emotionally involved, and look how that plays out. And men who should know better are under heavy pressure to go along.

    But even before social media completely amped up the cray-cray, you could see it happening as women gained more influence in mainstream news coverage and the political bullhorn.

    , @Anonymous
    @AnotherDad

    Up until the World Wars, in the US cities and towns were run by women's clubs. The clubs ensured the quiet environment for marriage and children that the women needed. It also ensured that anybody the women disliked ran onto severe trouble -- men who hit their wives, women who violated the moral/sexual code, men who wouldn't marry their pregnant girlfriends, and so on. Plus giving relief to people they thought worthwhile but unlucky. The women's clubs included (of course) the wives of just about every economically important person in town, and were thus adequately funded and had adequate informal enforcement available. https://www.britannica.com/event/club-movement
    They did a fairly good job of running the towns from the women's standpoint, a much better job than the men could have done. Typically the men simply couldn't perceive what was obvious to the women. OTH, when the subject shifted from immediate environment to more abstract subjects such as Prohibition, the clubs didn't do very well. I think the classic men's objection was "I don't have any objection nice ladies, but they're trying to make me one".
    Eventually the whole women's club phenomenon was destroyed by the bureaucratization of "social work", which is government paid, funded, and controlled.

    But here's a parody of a women's club that is strongly recognizable today:

    https://youtu.be/rkY09GQoJGo

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  10. @Dieter Kief
    Martin Gurri makes a very importat point. - Technology brings unknown George Floyd in intimate contact with millions of people troughout the world while he dies. - And that - to put it simple: - Is too much for them. They can't handle their emotions. And right: The elites don't differ here at all.

    Shortly after George Flod's death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been "murdered".

    (It is normally frowned on in Germany to publicly talk of someone beeing a murderer as long as he has not been convicted).

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @AnotherDad, @Redman, @JerseyJeffersonian

    (It is normally frowned on in Germany to publicly talk of someone being a murderer as long as he has not been convicted).

    That’s still true here in the USA except when the murderer is white.

  11. Anonymous[504] • Disclaimer says:

    Gurri may have taken a too-literal reading of the lyrics from “Everybody Wants To Rule The World”

  12. @Dieter Kief
    Martin Gurri makes a very importat point. - Technology brings unknown George Floyd in intimate contact with millions of people troughout the world while he dies. - And that - to put it simple: - Is too much for them. They can't handle their emotions. And right: The elites don't differ here at all.

    Shortly after George Flod's death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been "murdered".

    (It is normally frowned on in Germany to publicly talk of someone beeing a murderer as long as he has not been convicted).

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @AnotherDad, @Redman, @JerseyJeffersonian

    Shortly after George Flod’s death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been “murdered”.

    Just spitballing here, Dieter … but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @AnotherDad

    V-3 ... Ossivergeltungswaffe

    , @Fluesterwitz
    @AnotherDad

    Trouble is, if the credible alternatives appear worse, you'll end up with leaders that at the time seemed to be the least bad option.

    , @Russ
    @AnotherDad


    Just spitballing here, Dieter … but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?
     
    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry -- not cited -- should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @AnotherDad

    , @donut
    @AnotherDad

    Having a woman rule anything other than the household is contrary to the laws of nature and nothing good can come from it .

  13. @Buzz Mohawk

    Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend.
     
    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Almost Missouri, @The Anti-Gnostic, @advancedatheist, @donut

    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    This remark of yours has not only a sarcastic side to it. It runs deeper in my eyes. Death is where normally religion kicks in – because death hints at questions that in an everyday context can’t be answered but are there nonetheless.

    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has – – – – – found God.

    Add to that, that in the Christian religion, the converted sinner is ranking morally quite high.

    Luke 15:7

    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

    • Replies: @reactionry
    @Dieter Kief

    7X70= infinity?

    , @HallParvey
    @Dieter Kief

    Luke 15:7



    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”
     
    This is one of those things, in the Bible, that leaves us to wonder if the sage got it right.

    If, as is indicated, joy in heaven is much, much greater when "one sinner repenteth" than over ninety and nine who have not sinned, and therefore have no need for repentence, then to increase the joy in heaven, people should go out and sin up a storm. Then repent. Then sin, again and again. Then repent again and again.

    Perhaps this is where the need for regular confession comes from. If you haven't sinned, you really have nothing to confess. Unless you are lying about sinning in the confessional, which I suppose is a sin, which could qualify. If joy in heaven is dependent on repentance, then sin is an absolute necessity.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    , @Crawfurdmuir
    @Dieter Kief


    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has – – – – – found God.
     
    Jailhouse conversions are a well known phenomenon, so one may be permitted to entertain some scepticism about their genuineness.

    Would someone who had "found God" feel a need to be high on fentanyl and meth, as Floyd was? Would he pass counterfeit banknotes minutes before his fatal encounter with the police? His conduct at the hour of his death was not that of someone in a state of grace.

    Replies: @Cato, @Dieter Kief

    , @Charlotte
    @Dieter Kief

    Except, it’s not George Floyd who is the converted sinner. Indeed, mentioning Floyd’s dubious past is a good way to get yourself canceled. It’s the “racist” SJWs who are renouncing their white privilege and proclaiming the good news that Black Lives Matter!

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  14. I have a friend who is a childless “Cool Beer Uncle” to his half-Mexican nieces and nephews borne by his sister. His brother is a gay guy who thinks I’m cute. His entire family seems like the high-end counterpart of the White-death: no opioid or meth deaths, but just a voluntary removal from the gene-pool. It’s all very sad imho.

    But here’s a funny anecdote from his life: He has/had a very African friend by the name of Dunya. I met him several times. Nice guy, I easily bro’d out with him. Buuuuut… About two years ago Dunya managed to get himself deported from the States (Buffalo area) for selling weed. He immediately called my buddy for emergency support. My friend, being a good person used his credit card to put Dunya up in a Niagara Falls hotel for one night.

    But Dunya stayed for about two weeks and racked up a $4000 bill.

    The copious “I told you so” was delicious.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @BenKenobi


    But Dunya stayed for about two weeks and racked up a $4000 bill.
     
    A fraction of the bill Dubya left us.
  15. Anonymous[504] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, Marshall McLuhan’s “cool medium” meme is struggling in recent years– it’s never been easier to tune out audiovisual noise and advertising

  16. The Floyd protests fit into this pattern. The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis, were local and fleeting but took place before a battery of cell phone cameras—and at once became global and searchable. The public experienced a digital murder. Because it was visual, it felt personal. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend. Because his death was searchable, it turned into a recurring nightmare, a wound that could not heal.

    Of course, the public did not “experience a digital murder”. They experienced a “digital drug overdose”, marketed by minoritarians as “murder”.

    But the rest of this is spot on–if not new. Our visual processing is very powerful–our #1 sensory input. And we simply have not evolved the filter–the skepticism–toward what we see, that we have toward what we hear (or read).

    This isn’t brand new with social media. The media gave people a carefully curated version of Rodney King’s beating 30 years ago–and ran it again and again. George Floyd just lets people do it themselves, more often if they like.

    But i think it’s absolutely undeniable that minoritarianism could not have had its tentacles around the throat of white people and Western civilization 100 years ago, before TV and video. The ability of minoritarians to create totally false narratives–i.e. lies–and inject them directly into white people’s brains has been the critical tool in our destruction.

    Simply end Hollyweird and you’d see a pretty big lurch back toward sanity.

    • LOL: IHTG
    • Replies: @Lurker
    @AnotherDad


    Our visual processing is very powerful–our #1 sensory input. And we simply have not evolved the filter–the skepticism–toward what we see, that we have toward what we hear (or read)
     
    ^This!^

    The simple fact of what we see seems to have the biggest emotional impact. Priss Factor goes into immense detail, the many layers below the surface. But a lot of times its just the bloody obvious, the casting, the simplistic plots and interactions of TV, film, advertising.

    Whites are dumb, weak, criminal, lazy, disabled, gay. Blacks/browns are clever, inventive, loyal, hard working, confident, brave. On and on, day after day, thats whats on the screen.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    , @The Last Real Calvinist
    @AnotherDad

    Good post.

    Even if you're a fairly critical news reader/movie and TV watcher, and you work to filter out the most egregious lies, if you keep exposing yourself you'll find quanitity has a quality of its own, as they say.

    I like to characterize The Narrative as a great rough Yeatsian beast. It's huge, relentless, and indifferent to the sniping of any number of countercultural attacks, no matter how well-aimed. It wears you down.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Anonymous

  17. @Dieter Kief
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    This remark of yours has not only a sarcastic side to it. It runs deeper in my eyes. Death is where normally religion kicks in - because death hints at questions that in an everyday context can't be answered but are there nonetheless.

    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has - - - - - found God.

    Add to that, that in the Christian religion, the converted sinner is ranking morally quite high.

    Luke 15:7

    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

    Replies: @reactionry, @HallParvey, @Crawfurdmuir, @Charlotte

    7X70= infinity?

  18. The Dunbar number itself probably has high variability. A long line of rural hill farmers, staring at sheep or goats all day, would have a lower Dunbar number, maybe 50-100; whereas a cosmopolitan tribe of moneylenders might easily have a number in excess of 250.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Andrew M

    Agree, and agree with Steve that one of these cossetted academics ought to study the matter more rigorously than heretofore.

    My own experience is that something like exists, since I've had occasion to move back and forth between several radically different contexts in life, each with its own set of a hundred-odd names. Except for a few whose names lodge deeply for whatever reason, I find that upon reentry I have to relearn most of those names, even if they were perfectly familiar to me before. OTOH, it is much faster to relearn than it was to learn the first time.

    It is as if the names (and faces, and personal histories, etc.) form an invisible social carapace, which when abandoned becomes mostly forgotten as effort goes into creating the new carapace for the new social context. But when returning to the old social context, the abandoned carapace can be re-inhabited relatively quickly.

    , @Paul Mendez
    @Andrew M

    I think you’re confused. The Dunbar number is not your actual number of contacts. It’s your potential for storing/manipulating them. Like your computer has a certain amount of storage capacity. Whether you use it all or not depends on your situation.

    IIRC the Dunbar number is not just the number of people you can recognize, but the number of people you know things about. Not just their names but their marriage status, relative intelligence, honesty and so on.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Andrew M

  19. There is a huge ruckus in Poland because that thing on the right(allegedly female) was arrested(already released) for attacking a pro-life guy:

    Guy who dresses like guy is a female LGBT activist. It reminds me of this:

    – possibly the best comedy skit ever.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Lex

    Lex, you are absolutely right. That (2nd) video IS possibly the best comedy skit ever. Thanks!

  20. A lot of people can’t deal well with criticism. They feel like they are about to be attacked by a mob and murdered when they get a few dozen tweets making fun of them. I think that’s a better application of this Dunbar Number: If people get 76 negative responses on social media, they worry, “Oh, no, the majority of my tribe of 150 has spoken out against me! I will be made an outcast and forced to wander along in the wilderness.”

    This is what I was saying about the effects of social media on young women. They want to conform to what is or isn’t ‘okay’ or moral. That used to be more pragmatically defined by the community around them.

    Now their effective community of peers has extended infinitely by twitter and instagram. And like a flock of Starlings or shoal of fish, they all turn and rise together, all that is required is a minority cohesive enough to start the next wave of moral indignation.

    One thing they could do immediately to dampen the madness is to remove the ‘trending’ bar.

    An example of this dynamic is the purported ‘social contagion’ of MtF transgenders among some groups of adolescent girls. They are the same girls who were ‘goths’ before or even anorexics. They have BPD and a key element driving BPD is a deep fear of being abandoned, so they tend to like subcultures with a physical, visual element of belonging or ones where there is a real cost or investment to lessen their anxieties of being abandoned by said group and since their unstable sense of identity (Which may be the key to why they fear abandonment and like to cling to actioned identities). Transgenderism is even more potent since it gets a lot of validation and since their unstable sense of identity may be easily explained as ‘gender dysphoria’. It’s actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life. I don’t think Steve’s idea of it being an anxiety of seeing their daughter as a sexual being, I think it is a tragic of example of parents genuinely trying to help their daughter and instead destroying her.

    For young women, social media is a global simultaneous multiplayer video game. Video games for young men are all about simulating combat, high strategy, resource management or building intricate things. Except whereas nobody takes what adolescent boys do in video games seriously, people take what adolescent girls (And whatever the media may suggest, adolescent early 20s girls and women are the principal power users of social media who drive so many of the trends) do on social media with a seemingly implacable seriousness. The social media multiplayer game is about social status for women and about group standing and strategy just like male video games are about the external conflicts male identity and status are built around. Social media has changed the ‘group’ for adolescent girls to a massive community that can no longer have anything to do with pragmatic affairs and can only deal in abstractions and moral panics.

    Social media also means whenever there is a bad idea in American academia, it will spread globally immediately. Buckle up, the wild ride has just begun.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @Altai

    On the topic of the parents helping their trans daughters, I do think it is sincere in many cases. These parents are Gen Xers who have lived through the unraveling of society (Their principal trauma of being the first generations to grow up with divorce seems quaint by modern standards) and are used to new social paradigms being presented by the media and academia. They don't think 'None of the people in my high school class ever transitioned and I don't remember it causing any of them to kill themselves and now there are 2 or 3 in my daughters class'. All context for normality is gone.

    The song 'Modern Moonlight' by the Dresden Dolls is a classic example of Gen X angst about this process but looking back, the late 90s was the peak of civilization as 'The Matrix' by the Gen X Wachowski 'sisters' famously stated. Theirs was the generation that could see the clean break, something was missing but the consequences had yet to be felt.

    The lines:

    'Everybody join in the magnificence' ' Yes! Everything is absolutely making sense' reminds of the social media revolution that was only nascent when the song was written.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqfEJElZOO8

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Altai

    Altai, excellent analysis. That all rings very true. And it dovetails with the work of Jonathan Haight, about how digital social media distorts and weaponizes the natural female social dynamic.

    Understanding the different ways males and females interact with our new artificial social reality is a huge issue. But the usual fear of being called "sexist" inhibits any serious analysis.

    Personally, I think the evidence is everywhere that the internet has caused a "feminizing" of our "mainstream" national psyche. Everything is more emotional, cliquey and conformist; less direct and analytical. It’s like we've become a nation governed by the mean girls from high school.

    Replies: @Altai

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Altai


    It’s actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladaptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life.
     
    I've only witnessed one instance of "transgenderism" such that I can comment on it. In that instance, the parents, I think, initially recognized that the daughter's claim of gender dysphoria was absurd and actually a sign of something else, and so they initially resisted it. Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance to this false diagnosis of what was obviously (to me and to you) "a cry for help" (and this kid certainly had a lot of other stuff she needed help with, but not her gender identity as she was very obviously a "girly girl"). Hobbled by the "logic" of liberalism, over time the parents couldn't produce any cogent resistance to their daughter's insistence that she was the wrong gender, and so the daughter gradually began to get her way. Even worse, driven by the false "logic" of liberalism, the parents gradually began to agree with her, eventually acquiring the aberrant glow of smugly virtuous liberals as their daughter chemically mutilated herself.

    If nothing else, it was an object lesson that ideas have consequences. Other than their liberalism, the parents were fairly normal people. They lived fairly normal lives and, I think, instinctually understood that their daughter's gender dysphoria was hogwash, but they were, in a sense, mugged by their own ideology. They professed to believe all this stuff, and their daughter was essentially daring them to prove it. They did. Bad move. But their first bad move was to profess liberalism in the first place.

    Virtue signalling is all fun and games until someone loses a gender.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Dieter Kief, @Anonymous

  21. @Dave Pinsen

    Has this Dunbar number theory ever been tested? It’s quite popular, but I mostly see it used in an “As everybody knows” sense.
     
    I remember reading that Alexander the Great knew the names of hundreds of his officers and men, and a bit of that was illustrated in Oliver Stone’s movie.

    https://youtu.be/SxKscPYOOBY

    How many characters are there in the Iliad, and other oral epics?

    The Dunbar Number has been mentioned a lot online recently - why?

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Solomon the Fish, @donut

    The Dunbar Number sounds good. Part of the problem with it is how you “know”. Most of us recognize over 150 people; it’s what we know about them that varies.

  22. @Altai

    A lot of people can’t deal well with criticism. They feel like they are about to be attacked by a mob and murdered when they get a few dozen tweets making fun of them. I think that’s a better application of this Dunbar Number: If people get 76 negative responses on social media, they worry, “Oh, no, the majority of my tribe of 150 has spoken out against me! I will be made an outcast and forced to wander along in the wilderness.”
     
    This is what I was saying about the effects of social media on young women. They want to conform to what is or isn't 'okay' or moral. That used to be more pragmatically defined by the community around them.

    Now their effective community of peers has extended infinitely by twitter and instagram. And like a flock of Starlings or shoal of fish, they all turn and rise together, all that is required is a minority cohesive enough to start the next wave of moral indignation.

    One thing they could do immediately to dampen the madness is to remove the 'trending' bar.

    An example of this dynamic is the purported 'social contagion' of MtF transgenders among some groups of adolescent girls. They are the same girls who were 'goths' before or even anorexics. They have BPD and a key element driving BPD is a deep fear of being abandoned, so they tend to like subcultures with a physical, visual element of belonging or ones where there is a real cost or investment to lessen their anxieties of being abandoned by said group and since their unstable sense of identity (Which may be the key to why they fear abandonment and like to cling to actioned identities). Transgenderism is even more potent since it gets a lot of validation and since their unstable sense of identity may be easily explained as 'gender dysphoria'. It's actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life. I don't think Steve's idea of it being an anxiety of seeing their daughter as a sexual being, I think it is a tragic of example of parents genuinely trying to help their daughter and instead destroying her.

    For young women, social media is a global simultaneous multiplayer video game. Video games for young men are all about simulating combat, high strategy, resource management or building intricate things. Except whereas nobody takes what adolescent boys do in video games seriously, people take what adolescent girls (And whatever the media may suggest, adolescent early 20s girls and women are the principal power users of social media who drive so many of the trends) do on social media with a seemingly implacable seriousness. The social media multiplayer game is about social status for women and about group standing and strategy just like male video games are about the external conflicts male identity and status are built around. Social media has changed the 'group' for adolescent girls to a massive community that can no longer have anything to do with pragmatic affairs and can only deal in abstractions and moral panics.

    Social media also means whenever there is a bad idea in American academia, it will spread globally immediately. Buckle up, the wild ride has just begun.

    Replies: @Altai, @Hypnotoad666, @Almost Missouri

    On the topic of the parents helping their trans daughters, I do think it is sincere in many cases. These parents are Gen Xers who have lived through the unraveling of society (Their principal trauma of being the first generations to grow up with divorce seems quaint by modern standards) and are used to new social paradigms being presented by the media and academia. They don’t think ‘None of the people in my high school class ever transitioned and I don’t remember it causing any of them to kill themselves and now there are 2 or 3 in my daughters class’. All context for normality is gone.

    The song ‘Modern Moonlight’ by the Dresden Dolls is a classic example of Gen X angst about this process but looking back, the late 90s was the peak of civilization as ‘The Matrix’ by the Gen X Wachowski ‘sisters’ famously stated. Theirs was the generation that could see the clean break, something was missing but the consequences had yet to be felt.

    The lines:

    ‘Everybody join in the magnificence’ ‘ Yes! Everything is absolutely making sense’ reminds of the social media revolution that was only nascent when the song was written.

  23. “Has this Dunbar number theory ever been tested?”

    Not quite what you’re looking for, but see pp. 314-323 here: https://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~jfreese/freese_dissertation.pdf

  24. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:

    Or, perhaps, the opposite has happened as well: elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.

    Anyone who wishes to know whether journalists can take a joke need only look at the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites. Do not even dream of criticising these people, because they have no sense of humour at all, let alone the capacity for self-reflection.

    Modern-day “journalism” is a “conversation” in which reporters tell the masses exactly what they should be thinking – or else. All the excitement over the interactive nature of the online world went away the moment it became clear that the Great Unwashed might derive a great deal of pleasure from the discomfiture of political hacks being called out as political hacks rather than being deferred to as the journalists they so fondly imagine themselves to be.

    Criticism, dissent, and (heaven forfend) mockery are, clearly, holdover institutions of White Privilege (boo!), so just nod your head, mouth the officially-approved platitudes, and put another BLM sign in the window, you racist lout!

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous


    Anyone who wishes to know whether journalists can take a joke need only look at the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites. Do not even dream of criticising these people, because they have no sense of humour at all, let alone the capacity for self-reflection.

    Modern-day “journalism” is a “conversation” in which reporters tell the masses exactly what they should be thinking – or else.
     
    Or look at how fast journalist moved to shut down the caustic "Learn to Code" meme that was directed at laid-off journalists.

    The media came to hate the internet for permitting their version of "The News" to be challenged. That's why media outlets are increasingly shutting down comment sections or making it more difficult to post un-PC opinions online.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    I've seen it, #387, right here on unz, for that matter, though not to an extreme degree. The writers who can't take even constructive criticism well are:

    Paul Craig Roberts
    Fred Reed
    Ilana Mercer
    Ron Unz:

    Yeah, you remarked that 95% of the comments under your latest, massive 1,300+ thread were "hostile". First of all, only about 2/3 to 3/4 of them didn't agree with your main point, even though plenty of those very same ones added that they appreciated your writing in general and your attitude about free speech. Of all the comments, only a handful were hostile in the sense of "telling you off" or using derogatory language.

    I got only about 40% through the comments, and could spend 3 enjoyable hours or so finishing. You had some great commenters. Maybe at the end, you'd get your un-ending arguments among a few pairs or groups of commenters that want to get the last word in. There ends up being plenty of off-topic discussion on some of these threads, but one can see that right away and skip. However, to me, it was a great discussion. I don't know why a writer can't just sit back for a 1/2 day, read through them, and just refrain from writing back to any that you don't have a ready answer for, as you will otherwise waste your life on this, honestly. (I mean, you with the 1,300 comment threads).

    At least there was no talk of the commenters mostly being deranged this time. I don't think that says much for your site, but it isn't true anyway. That is, from the writers I read, not the Commies or the particular thread on the Lunar landing hoax (you're bound to see some derangement under a post about faking the Apollo program).

    , @dvorak
    @Anonymous


    the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites
     
    Yahoo! Finance (Verizon-owned) is taking stock of its comments section, currently. Probably this hiatus will run through Election Day.
  25. Or, perhaps … elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right …

    Good point. The current elites didn’t exactly rise up from among the people. They’ve been under special protection their whole lives. Very pampered. As it turns out, they are the ones who are fragile.

    It doesn’t take much to break them. Which has implications for the future.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @anon
    @RichardTaylor

    As it turns out, they are the ones who are fragile.

    Indeed.

    So I wonder, can a medium level academic in a 5th tier teachers college write a book entitled Elite Fragility and expect to get invites to TED talks, corporate speaking gigs, academic visiting prof gigs and a whole lotta book sale pumping to get the text on the NDT Best Seller List?

    Or am I kidding myself?

  26. And on the topic of social media infecting the whole world with idiosyncratic American social taboos. Look at his face.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1292383414482477058

    ‘N******’ isn’t a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain. You don’t go around saying the word, but in the context of reporting the word used by another in service of an anti-racist media agenda, I can’t imagine somebody being genuinely offended like they would almost be obliged to in the US.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53708991
    BBC DJ Sideman quits over the corporation’s decision to broadcast the n-word

    The 1Xtra star, whose real name is David Whitely, has announced he will leave the station after the BBC declined to say sorry for a reporter’s uncensored use of a racial slur during a news broadcast in July. The BBC says the word was “editorially justified given the context”, and was quoted in full at the request of the family of a victim of a racist attack.

    South Africa too has embraced the American notion of the ‘N word’ and uses the ‘K word’ (SA has embraced a lot of American CRT stuff) to refer to the word ‘Kaffir’ which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus. It’s silly and weird and I can’t find a comparable example elsewhere. The difference between using a slur and referring to a slur seems clear for every other kind of ethnic slur.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @Altai

    Here is his statement.

    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1292177890423996416

    What's the word some have used? 'Black megalomania', this dude has never had a moment of introspection or self-doubt in his life of his own greatness, hence his response by resigning, how will the BBC ever recover.

    And again, there is no 'N word' taboo in Britain, it's a slur and you don't use it, but the idea that the BBC broke an understood social taboo here is insane. It is understood as an American taboo to say 'the N word' when referring to it in a clinical fashion to report it's use. It would look silly.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux

    , @Jmaie
    @Altai


    ‘Kaffir’ which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus.
     
    Which is funny because the origin of the word is Arabic and refers to any non-believer. To a Muslim, any SA person would be kafir - black, brown or white.
    , @dearieme
    @Altai

    the word ‘Kaffir’ which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus.

    I should think the "somehow" was that it was the dismissive word for Bantu used by Arab slave traders.

    P.S. there are some muslims in South Africa.

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Altai

    Although the 'K-word' is a Yanklish import - part of the McDonald's-ification of acceptable language - Kaffir has been a pejorative in Sarth Effrika since the mid-1900s (prior to that it was almost neutral).

    It won't be long before we'll have to re-write the most important recipe in the world (Beef Rendang) to remove references to Kaffir Lime (only the leaves in most recipes; microplaned rind in the best recipes). It gets called 'Thai Lime' in Sarth Effrika now - which is stupid because while Thai cooking uses the leaves and rind of Kaffir limes, it also uses quite a bit of fresh 'normal' lime (Persian lime), and Kaffir limes would be terrible.

    Kaffir is not a pejorative to Sri Lankan Kaffirs; they'll obviously have to be renamed for fear that someone, somewhere, takes offense.

    The best bet is that the person who takes offense will be a white woman with pudgy arms, abundant backfat, and a large student debt accrued while studying nonsense.

    , @syonredux
    @Altai


    ‘N******’ isn’t a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain.
     
    Dunno about that. It's been used in the UK for a very long time:


    1811 Ld. Byron in Mem. F. Hodgson (1878) I. 195 The rest of the world—ni[*****] and what not.




    a1849 H. Coleridge Ess. & Marginalia (1851) I. 164 A similar error has turned Othello..into a rank woolly-pated, thick-lipped ni[****]

    D. L. Sayers Five Red Herrings i. 11 Waters,..like all Englishmen, was ready enough to admire and praise all foreigners except dagoes and ni[*****]


    G. Greene Heart of Matter i. i. 3 I hate the place. I hate the people. I hate the bloody ni[*****]. Mustn't call 'em that you know.



    https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/126934





    Thomas Carlyle's "Occasional Discourse on the Negro Question" was reprinted with the alternate title, "Occasional Discourse on the Ni[****] Question"

    https://cruel.org/econthought/texts/carlyle/odnqbk.html
  27. @Buzz Mohawk

    Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend.
     
    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Almost Missouri, @The Anti-Gnostic, @advancedatheist, @donut

    This is a really excellent joke. Not only is it very funny, it is very true. And it very succinctly points out the folly of accepting this very poor replacement for real religion, and implicitly points out how many people (especially the young women so prevalent at Floyd protests) can’t function meaningfully without the structure of a religion, whether a real one or a fake one.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    @Almost Missouri


    This is a really excellent joke. Not only is it very funny, it is very true.
     
    Because George Floyd is the manifestation of the Anti-Christ.
    , @Alexander Turok
    @Almost Missouri

    I also thought it was funny, but through the lens of criticism of both religion and Hurricane Floyd. I guess there are four ways of interpreting this:

    1. "The comparison is farcical, religion is bad, but the Floyd movement is great!" - Mainstream liberals.

    2. "The comparison is apt, George Floyd is like Jesus, and that's great!" - Left-wing Christians like this guy:

    https://twitter.com/JamesMartinSJ/status/1267570417419550726

    3. "The comparison is farcical, the Floyd movement is a pale imitation of true religion."

    4. "The comparison is apt, religion and the Floyd movement both tap into human tendencies toward irrationality and self-deception."

    For me in group 4, I understand the argument that we should support religion as a bulwark against irrationalism. It's the same class of arguments as "teenagers are always gonna use some drugs, we should support the use of drug X, as a bulwark against the others." I don't think you should reject it in all cases, but it needs a lot of evidence to convince me to give up on my instinct, which is to say, 'get rid of all of it.' And I don't think that evidence is there. The churches are simply not doing it:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/mit-catholic-chaplain-canceled-for-not-worshipping-st-george-floyd-fervently-enough/

    My grandpa used to say that religion is a solution in search of a problem. You see this over and over. Jesus is the antidote to racism, say left-wing Christians. Jesus is the antidote to Leftism, say right-wing Christians. Every problem more significant than a kid being unable to get past that level on Mario, someone somewhere will hold up that Bible, Torah, Koran, whatever it is, and say, "here lies the answer." It's like that scene in the Simpsons, Jesus is cited as the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

    As to the young women argument, if some fraction of young women needs some kind of irrationalism, why should we care? How about saying "let's just not listen to them?" The SJWs, they believe inherently in this kind of argument: "oh, your group is 95% male, that's very bad, you need to reform yourself to have more Diversity, even at the principles your group formed to advance in the first place." That kind of argument doesn't resonate with me. If they aren't gonna listen to rational arguments, well, let the SJWs and the preachers fight over them. If they don't listen to us now, then we won't be affected by us throwing our weight to one side. In a situation of electoral politics, you can tell the preacher "okay, you rile up your followers and we'll rile up ours so that common candidate X can win." But you don't join the preacher in the pews.

  28. “We may feel emotionally like we live in a tribe of 150, but we don’t. It’s actually a huge country, so restrain your out-of-control emotions and think sensibly.”

    This ties in with elites and their provincial cosmopolitanism. As most US MSM media is located in NY, they really don’t understand the rest of the nation, nor do they feel that they have to. “What states are there West of the Mississippi?” Once asked D Presidential candidate Al Smith. Today it would be more appropriate to state “If you’re not from here, (NY, DC, LA, SF) your opinions don’t count.”

  29. “ threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa“

    Really? I can’t think if any 5+ dead attacks by antifa, and a fair number by the “far right.”

    It probably will happen fairly soon. Their ability to loot stores and smash the property of their enemies with impunity will attract the deranged even more than normal. They were a really small thing mostly limited to the NW, NY, and a few college towns not too long ago.

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    • Disagree: throtler
    • Replies: @fnn
    @Lot

    The Dayton shooter, Conor Betts, killed nine. His twitter feed showed he identified as Antifa. Since Antifa doesn't give out membership cards (Actually, like the Mafia, they claim they don't even exist as an organization) that's all the proof you need.


    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2019/08/04/confirmed-dayton-shooter-connor-betts-was-a-socialist-satanist-antifa-and-democrat/comment-page-1/

    Replies: @Lot

    , @Genrick Yagoda
    @Lot

    AntiFa Dindu Micah Xavier Johnson shot 5 cops dead in Dallas. AntiFa Willem van Spronsen tried to kill ICE agents, was himself killed.

    AmtiFa/BLM William T. Jones Jr shot an innocent white kid in the temple, and then proceeded to shoot only white people in his hour long rampage.

    You're behind the times, mate.

    , @Anonymous
    @Lot


    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.
     
    See: Edward Dutton, How to Judge People by What They Look Like. Thesis: Industrial revolution has ended environmental culling of mutational load. Experience in animal breeding suggests that under conditions of rapid population increase without environmental culling mammalian gene pools rapidly increase mutational load. Mutational load is quite often manifested as asymmetries and neurological deficits.
    Worth reading.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Lot


    A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face ...
     
    They're bound to be a lot more misshapen and asymmetrical if they don't back off at some point. (Not a threat of any kind, just a prognostication.)
    , @Almost Missouri
    @Lot

    Alt-Right ≠ far right.

    Also, what journalists call "far right" ≠ far right.

    , @sayless
    @Lot

    You can't think of any 5+ murderous attacks by antifa because they've been quashed before they occurred. Antifa is organized, and law enforcement have been tracking them since at least 2017.

  30. Your observations about the effects of social media criticism are new and insightful.
    Arnold Kling’s ideas not so much. What Kling criticizes – common people developing emotions about public events – is called Greek democracy and has been criticized from the beginning. Or, if Kling thinks that a Greek polis is too small to count here, it has at least started with the Stoics and their “cosmopolitanism”.

  31. Whether there really is a “Dunbar number” or whether it comes from our hunter-gatherer evolution may be beside the point. Either way, there is a necessary limit on the number of people we can know about.

    And it’s also true that humans prioritize visual imagery and anecdotal evidence over statistical and probabilistic thinking.

    So visual stories about people you “know” — i.e. celebrities — have an incredibly outsized impact on people’s views of reality.

    That’s why the media worked so hard to curate the facts to turn St. George into a person you “know” and are supposed to relate to: The “gentle giant” who was “turning his life around,” only to be murdered by racist cops kneeling on his neck.

    It’s also why they are avoiding any coverage of the narrative-exploding bodycam footage showing him to actually be an out of control junkie that the cops were trying to save.

  32. @AnotherDad
    @Dieter Kief


    Shortly after George Flod’s death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been “murdered”.
     
    Just spitballing here, Dieter ... but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Fluesterwitz, @Russ, @donut

    V-3 … Ossivergeltungswaffe

  33. The super-elite have merely figured out how to get their Dunbar list to maximise the use of their own Dunbar lists. MLM so to say.

  34. @Andrew M
    The Dunbar number itself probably has high variability. A long line of rural hill farmers, staring at sheep or goats all day, would have a lower Dunbar number, maybe 50-100; whereas a cosmopolitan tribe of moneylenders might easily have a number in excess of 250.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Paul Mendez

    Agree, and agree with Steve that one of these cossetted academics ought to study the matter more rigorously than heretofore.

    My own experience is that something like exists, since I’ve had occasion to move back and forth between several radically different contexts in life, each with its own set of a hundred-odd names. Except for a few whose names lodge deeply for whatever reason, I find that upon reentry I have to relearn most of those names, even if they were perfectly familiar to me before. OTOH, it is much faster to relearn than it was to learn the first time.

    It is as if the names (and faces, and personal histories, etc.) form an invisible social carapace, which when abandoned becomes mostly forgotten as effort goes into creating the new carapace for the new social context. But when returning to the old social context, the abandoned carapace can be re-inhabited relatively quickly.

  35. @Altai

    A lot of people can’t deal well with criticism. They feel like they are about to be attacked by a mob and murdered when they get a few dozen tweets making fun of them. I think that’s a better application of this Dunbar Number: If people get 76 negative responses on social media, they worry, “Oh, no, the majority of my tribe of 150 has spoken out against me! I will be made an outcast and forced to wander along in the wilderness.”
     
    This is what I was saying about the effects of social media on young women. They want to conform to what is or isn't 'okay' or moral. That used to be more pragmatically defined by the community around them.

    Now their effective community of peers has extended infinitely by twitter and instagram. And like a flock of Starlings or shoal of fish, they all turn and rise together, all that is required is a minority cohesive enough to start the next wave of moral indignation.

    One thing they could do immediately to dampen the madness is to remove the 'trending' bar.

    An example of this dynamic is the purported 'social contagion' of MtF transgenders among some groups of adolescent girls. They are the same girls who were 'goths' before or even anorexics. They have BPD and a key element driving BPD is a deep fear of being abandoned, so they tend to like subcultures with a physical, visual element of belonging or ones where there is a real cost or investment to lessen their anxieties of being abandoned by said group and since their unstable sense of identity (Which may be the key to why they fear abandonment and like to cling to actioned identities). Transgenderism is even more potent since it gets a lot of validation and since their unstable sense of identity may be easily explained as 'gender dysphoria'. It's actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life. I don't think Steve's idea of it being an anxiety of seeing their daughter as a sexual being, I think it is a tragic of example of parents genuinely trying to help their daughter and instead destroying her.

    For young women, social media is a global simultaneous multiplayer video game. Video games for young men are all about simulating combat, high strategy, resource management or building intricate things. Except whereas nobody takes what adolescent boys do in video games seriously, people take what adolescent girls (And whatever the media may suggest, adolescent early 20s girls and women are the principal power users of social media who drive so many of the trends) do on social media with a seemingly implacable seriousness. The social media multiplayer game is about social status for women and about group standing and strategy just like male video games are about the external conflicts male identity and status are built around. Social media has changed the 'group' for adolescent girls to a massive community that can no longer have anything to do with pragmatic affairs and can only deal in abstractions and moral panics.

    Social media also means whenever there is a bad idea in American academia, it will spread globally immediately. Buckle up, the wild ride has just begun.

    Replies: @Altai, @Hypnotoad666, @Almost Missouri

    Altai, excellent analysis. That all rings very true. And it dovetails with the work of Jonathan Haight, about how digital social media distorts and weaponizes the natural female social dynamic.

    Understanding the different ways males and females interact with our new artificial social reality is a huge issue. But the usual fear of being called “sexist” inhibits any serious analysis.

    Personally, I think the evidence is everywhere that the internet has caused a “feminizing” of our “mainstream” national psyche. Everything is more emotional, cliquey and conformist; less direct and analytical. It’s like we’ve become a nation governed by the mean girls from high school.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @Hypnotoad666

    Even something like global warming, the most pragmatic and very male type of discourse has been superseded by 'How Dare You! Girl' (Also having the effect of further polarising the issue with libertarians and the right in the US digging their heels in further on the issue without thinking about the very basic science that derived this from Sailer-like chemists and physicists) and purely an abstract moral-religious framework rather than more prosaic discussions of emission percentages, lag times, sea level rise effects or use technologies or better use of energy.

    People (Young women) were literally putting up her picture in coffee shops and work places like a saints picture. Perhaps it is a good thing on that issue, nothing gets things done faster but it seems like it's a silver lining upon national suicide. But then the topic of the game changed and we all forgot about her again.

    And just like how males in video games act with abandon, assured of the lack of real world consequences to their virtual exploits, young women too, seem to feel that their virtual, high intensity social media game doesn't really have any consequences. They play it like a game, not like their real life social lives. But the media take it all very seriously.

    The only other really successful game that ever took off with the fairer sex was the Sims franchise. Since then, despite the obvious untapped market, nobody has ever made a video game that was seriously played by anything other than a niche minority of women.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

  36. @AnotherDad
    @Dieter Kief


    Shortly after George Flod’s death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been “murdered”.
     
    Just spitballing here, Dieter ... but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Fluesterwitz, @Russ, @donut

    Trouble is, if the credible alternatives appear worse, you’ll end up with leaders that at the time seemed to be the least bad option.

  37. “One of the twenty million doing something knuckle headed” that sounds like something a “visiting research fellow” would say……WAY OFF!…try millions in twenty millions.

  38. @Hypnotoad666
    @Altai

    Altai, excellent analysis. That all rings very true. And it dovetails with the work of Jonathan Haight, about how digital social media distorts and weaponizes the natural female social dynamic.

    Understanding the different ways males and females interact with our new artificial social reality is a huge issue. But the usual fear of being called "sexist" inhibits any serious analysis.

    Personally, I think the evidence is everywhere that the internet has caused a "feminizing" of our "mainstream" national psyche. Everything is more emotional, cliquey and conformist; less direct and analytical. It’s like we've become a nation governed by the mean girls from high school.

    Replies: @Altai

    Even something like global warming, the most pragmatic and very male type of discourse has been superseded by ‘How Dare You! Girl’ (Also having the effect of further polarising the issue with libertarians and the right in the US digging their heels in further on the issue without thinking about the very basic science that derived this from Sailer-like chemists and physicists) and purely an abstract moral-religious framework rather than more prosaic discussions of emission percentages, lag times, sea level rise effects or use technologies or better use of energy.

    People (Young women) were literally putting up her picture in coffee shops and work places like a saints picture. Perhaps it is a good thing on that issue, nothing gets things done faster but it seems like it’s a silver lining upon national suicide. But then the topic of the game changed and we all forgot about her again.

    And just like how males in video games act with abandon, assured of the lack of real world consequences to their virtual exploits, young women too, seem to feel that their virtual, high intensity social media game doesn’t really have any consequences. They play it like a game, not like their real life social lives. But the media take it all very seriously.

    The only other really successful game that ever took off with the fairer sex was the Sims franchise. Since then, despite the obvious untapped market, nobody has ever made a video game that was seriously played by anything other than a niche minority of women.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Altai

    Animal Crossing

    Replies: @Altai

  39. @Altai

    A lot of people can’t deal well with criticism. They feel like they are about to be attacked by a mob and murdered when they get a few dozen tweets making fun of them. I think that’s a better application of this Dunbar Number: If people get 76 negative responses on social media, they worry, “Oh, no, the majority of my tribe of 150 has spoken out against me! I will be made an outcast and forced to wander along in the wilderness.”
     
    This is what I was saying about the effects of social media on young women. They want to conform to what is or isn't 'okay' or moral. That used to be more pragmatically defined by the community around them.

    Now their effective community of peers has extended infinitely by twitter and instagram. And like a flock of Starlings or shoal of fish, they all turn and rise together, all that is required is a minority cohesive enough to start the next wave of moral indignation.

    One thing they could do immediately to dampen the madness is to remove the 'trending' bar.

    An example of this dynamic is the purported 'social contagion' of MtF transgenders among some groups of adolescent girls. They are the same girls who were 'goths' before or even anorexics. They have BPD and a key element driving BPD is a deep fear of being abandoned, so they tend to like subcultures with a physical, visual element of belonging or ones where there is a real cost or investment to lessen their anxieties of being abandoned by said group and since their unstable sense of identity (Which may be the key to why they fear abandonment and like to cling to actioned identities). Transgenderism is even more potent since it gets a lot of validation and since their unstable sense of identity may be easily explained as 'gender dysphoria'. It's actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life. I don't think Steve's idea of it being an anxiety of seeing their daughter as a sexual being, I think it is a tragic of example of parents genuinely trying to help their daughter and instead destroying her.

    For young women, social media is a global simultaneous multiplayer video game. Video games for young men are all about simulating combat, high strategy, resource management or building intricate things. Except whereas nobody takes what adolescent boys do in video games seriously, people take what adolescent girls (And whatever the media may suggest, adolescent early 20s girls and women are the principal power users of social media who drive so many of the trends) do on social media with a seemingly implacable seriousness. The social media multiplayer game is about social status for women and about group standing and strategy just like male video games are about the external conflicts male identity and status are built around. Social media has changed the 'group' for adolescent girls to a massive community that can no longer have anything to do with pragmatic affairs and can only deal in abstractions and moral panics.

    Social media also means whenever there is a bad idea in American academia, it will spread globally immediately. Buckle up, the wild ride has just begun.

    Replies: @Altai, @Hypnotoad666, @Almost Missouri

    It’s actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladaptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life.

    I’ve only witnessed one instance of “transgenderism” such that I can comment on it. In that instance, the parents, I think, initially recognized that the daughter’s claim of gender dysphoria was absurd and actually a sign of something else, and so they initially resisted it. Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance to this false diagnosis of what was obviously (to me and to you) “a cry for help” (and this kid certainly had a lot of other stuff she needed help with, but not her gender identity as she was very obviously a “girly girl”). Hobbled by the “logic” of liberalism, over time the parents couldn’t produce any cogent resistance to their daughter’s insistence that she was the wrong gender, and so the daughter gradually began to get her way. Even worse, driven by the false “logic” of liberalism, the parents gradually began to agree with her, eventually acquiring the aberrant glow of smugly virtuous liberals as their daughter chemically mutilated herself.

    If nothing else, it was an object lesson that ideas have consequences. Other than their liberalism, the parents were fairly normal people. They lived fairly normal lives and, I think, instinctually understood that their daughter’s gender dysphoria was hogwash, but they were, in a sense, mugged by their own ideology. They professed to believe all this stuff, and their daughter was essentially daring them to prove it. They did. Bad move. But their first bad move was to profess liberalism in the first place.

    Virtue signalling is all fun and games until someone loses a gender.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    @Almost Missouri

    The same reason so many Social Justice Warriors shop for the "Area of Good Schools" whenever they have progeny to look out for.

    , @Dieter Kief
    @Almost Missouri

    a) Ideas are dangerous because they might separate you from the herd.

    a') And having not the right ideas is dangerous as soon as you need to separate from the herd and don't because you lack insight - - and thus the energy to leave and/or dissent.

    Life is a risky undertaking - for liberals too.


    PS

    I loved the scenes in Jonathan Franzen's novel Purity, which show a liberal middle-class family entering troubled waters because their son slowly but steadily - turns into a Republican. And I love those scenes in Tom Wolfe's last novel Back to Blood, which show that the liberal/postmodern mindset in Miami is not ready to cope with problems that arise in a black neighborhood.

    , @Anonymous
    @Almost Missouri


    Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance
     
    What are examples of language and mental concepts that the parents could have used, had they been aware of them?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  40. @Altai
    And on the topic of social media infecting the whole world with idiosyncratic American social taboos. Look at his face.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1292383414482477058

    'N******' isn't a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain. You don't go around saying the word, but in the context of reporting the word used by another in service of an anti-racist media agenda, I can't imagine somebody being genuinely offended like they would almost be obliged to in the US.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53708991
    BBC DJ Sideman quits over the corporation's decision to broadcast the n-word

    The 1Xtra star, whose real name is David Whitely, has announced he will leave the station after the BBC declined to say sorry for a reporter's uncensored use of a racial slur during a news broadcast in July. The BBC says the word was “editorially justified given the context”, and was quoted in full at the request of the family of a victim of a racist attack.
     
    South Africa too has embraced the American notion of the 'N word' and uses the 'K word' (SA has embraced a lot of American CRT stuff) to refer to the word 'Kaffir' which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus. It's silly and weird and I can't find a comparable example elsewhere. The difference between using a slur and referring to a slur seems clear for every other kind of ethnic slur.

    Replies: @Altai, @Jmaie, @dearieme, @Kratoklastes, @syonredux

    Here is his statement.

    What’s the word some have used? ‘Black megalomania’, this dude has never had a moment of introspection or self-doubt in his life of his own greatness, hence his response by resigning, how will the BBC ever recover.

    And again, there is no ‘N word’ taboo in Britain, it’s a slur and you don’t use it, but the idea that the BBC broke an understood social taboo here is insane. It is understood as an American taboo to say ‘the N word’ when referring to it in a clinical fashion to report it’s use. It would look silly.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Altai


    And again, there is no ‘N word’ taboo in Britain...
     
    You're quite a few years behind the times on this. The word - in any context - has been taboo for a decade or two. Six years ago a regional BBC radio presenter in Devon was forced to resign after he played the 1932 song The Sun Has Got His Hat On, which contains the N-word.

    Up to about the 1980s, Britain was far less priggish about these matters than the US. One of the most popular films of 1970 was Carry On Up the Jungle, with Bernard Bresslaw playing the main African character in blackface and a fuzzy wig. In it every cliché about African jungle dwellers is milked dry for its comic effect.

    Replies: @Altai

    , @syonredux
    @Altai


    And again, there is no ‘N word’ taboo in Britain, it’s a slur and you don’t use it, but the idea that the BBC broke an understood social taboo here is insane.
     
    But there is now. That's how things work. Back in the '70s in the US, lit profs would openly refer to Conrad's eponymous Ni[****] of the 'Narcissus' without recourse to circumlocutions. Try doing that now, and you'll be up before the board....


    And, of course, we are experiencing a moment of "peak Blackness," and things are moving very fast. "Progressive" shows from the early 2000s are being censored. 30 Rock, for example, has had episodes pulled from re-runs:

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/entertainment/30-rock-episodes-blackface-trnd/index.html
  41. @Peter Johnson
    Is there a gender bias (favoring women) in the Dunbar number? Anecdotally, my wife for example must be up to 300+ whereas I would struggle to hit 150. I think that such a gender bias could be common. That might also feed into the gender-related difference in reactions to the Floyd incident.

    Replies: @bomag, @Neoconned, @anonymous 389, @Ben tillman

    Is there a gender bias…

    Appears to be a continuum thing: women more than men in general; some men are the outliers with thousands, e.g. bill clinton; I heard of a dairy farmer who named all two thousand of this cows.

  42. Could just as easily said…”Why America Can’t Escape its Racial Roots.” America is not a melting pot. When you put whatever in a melting pot it comes out as an alloy, a new material. America is a “stew pot.” When you put something in a stew pot it cooks together, and everything adds a bit of flavor, but you still see a carrot as a carrot and a potato as a potato. I don’t thing all this animosity will ever end because there are always people throwing shit in the stew. And the $400 million in property damage certainly does not include looted and destroyed merchandise and lost tax revenue from businesses which will never re-open.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Buffalo Joe

    It may be a stew pot, but most people make up the sauce.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

  43. At least 21 people shot at yet another “block party” this time in SE Washington D.C.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/at-least-21-people-were-shot-one-fatally-at-a-gathering-in-southeast-washington/2020/08/09/dde4ee6c-da34-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

    The increased susceptibility of certain groups to covid is (like everything else) an artifact of systemic racism and white supremacy. The actual habits of people are completely irrelevant, and by the way you are racist.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @HammerJack

    More bad aiming, 1 death, 21 wounded.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @HammerJack

    Hammer, I didn't know whether to push the Agree button or the LOL Need an "Agree this is funny button." And it's "Whites", if you please.

  44. The author of the article puts forth a very nonstandard definition of the Dunbar Number as the number of people you can identify with fair accuracy.

    The actual definition of the Dunbar Number is that it is the number of people with whom you can maintain stable social relationships. That is an entirely different thing.

    I would think it is possible for people to be able to identify thousands of people with fair accuracy — I can identify many, many actors and business associates, more than 150, just to list two categories, though I have never tried to count and I don’t consider myself particularly good at it.

    From this initial misdefinition the article flies off the rails away from any plausible connection to our ancestral tribal social networks.

    • Agree: Rob McX, Kratoklastes
    • Thanks: Buffalo Joe
  45. Yet another white girl taught her whole life to trust black guys and latino guys. Pays the price. Photos of the killer in the Daily Mail but not in the US media.

    https://mol.im/a/8606107

  46. @AnotherDad
    @Dieter Kief


    Shortly after George Flod’s death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been “murdered”.
     
    Just spitballing here, Dieter ... but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Fluesterwitz, @Russ, @donut

    Just spitballing here, Dieter … but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?

    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry — not cited — should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.

    • Agree: throtler
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Russ


    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset.
     
    The Poles just need to keep their women out of politics as much as possible.

    https://twitter.com/TJ_Knight/status/1291371460473294848/photo/1
    , @AnotherDad
    @Russ


    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry — not cited — should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.
     
    What seems to have held sway is "childless woman".

    This alone is a grievous mistake. Heck, each of these qualities alone is a mistake.

    Merkel--AFAICT not being a German--was bouncing along being a boring Christian Democrat establishment pol--Kohl 2.0. Then suddenly there were poor innocent "refugees" who needed her and an a instant the childless old biddy was "Mutter Merkel" the mother to millions.

    The fact that she had in a year or two a demographic catastrophe on the order of the US's "legacy of slavery", severely trashing the future of every actually German child ... meant nothing. She was finally a nurturing mom!

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Lot

  47. @Buffalo Joe
    Could just as easily said..."Why America Can't Escape its Racial Roots." America is not a melting pot. When you put whatever in a melting pot it comes out as an alloy, a new material. America is a "stew pot." When you put something in a stew pot it cooks together, and everything adds a bit of flavor, but you still see a carrot as a carrot and a potato as a potato. I don't thing all this animosity will ever end because there are always people throwing shit in the stew. And the $400 million in property damage certainly does not include looted and destroyed merchandise and lost tax revenue from businesses which will never re-open.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    It may be a stew pot, but most people make up the sauce.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Art Deco

    Art, yes if you mean sauce equals flavor. Every race and culture adds a bit of flavor.

  48. @Art Deco
    @Buffalo Joe

    It may be a stew pot, but most people make up the sauce.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Art, yes if you mean sauce equals flavor. Every race and culture adds a bit of flavor.

  49. @Buzz Mohawk

    Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend.
     
    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Almost Missouri, @The Anti-Gnostic, @advancedatheist, @donut

    Hit “Troll” on my phone by mistake. Oh my George.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    No, you had it right the first time.

    , @Adam Smith
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Oh my George!

    , @HammerJack
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    You know you can correct it, right?

    Just go back and make the selection
    you originally meant to.

  50. @Anon
    Most SJWs have a personality disorder, and they don't deal well with the internet. The interesting thing is, the rioters are the ones who grew up with the internet. Even though they've had years to learn how to handle it and set emotional barriers between it and themselves, they can't. Everything that happens on the net is personal to them. They internalize someone else's outrage, and launch attacks on perfect strangers because of this. Trying to get people fired, or physically attacking them for their opinions, or trying to blind a stranger with lasers because you don't like their politics, is crazy stuff.

    A case in point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGZpo5s6voI&feature=emb_logo

    Replies: @Bert, @Rob McX, @Neoconned

    I think personalization of the internet via social media is like the La Brea Tar Pit for many people with mental health problems. An early 20’s female college student of my acquaintance posted nude photos of herself weekly on Twitter and Instagram, often with the Pansexual Pride flag in the background. She was a SJW online as well. Having lots of internet followers makes them crazier than they were when they first aspired to having followers. How do these kids ever free themselves from social media’s dopamine vicious cycle?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bert



    An early 20’s female college student of my acquaintance posted nude photos of herself weekly on Twitter and Instagram, often with the Pansexual Pride flag in the background.

     

    I don't think I will ever stop being amazed at what people are willing to post online without a second thought; nude pictures are the least of it. The online world seems to take the philosophy, "if it feels good, do it," and turn it into a commandment.

    Everyone under 30 seems to utterly lack the sort of internal filter that would cause them to think twice about posting stuff for the world to see (and retain, should they so wish).

    I wonder how many people posting pictures of themselves with a drink in their hand are aware that many employers spend a lot of time scouring the net to find exactly that kind of picture of their prospective employees? There is no need to ask someone how they spend their off hours when they post their entire private life online in the hopes of getting a "like" from someone.


    How do these kids ever free themselves from social media’s dopamine vicious cycle?
     
    I'm not sure many of them ever do, particularly when it's all they have ever known. Add to that an entire industry dedicated to keeping them on the hamster wheel and it adds up to a nigh-unstoppable machine:


    "Our product is a slot machine that plays you,” boasts Ramsay Brown, co-founder of App optimization consultancy Dopamine Labs.

     

    I did not know what a "retention consultant" was until quite recently, but I cannot say I was all that surprised to learn that there are people whose sole job it is to keep you looking at your smartphone screen.

    I would like to think that there are still a fair number of adults on hand to save these young people from themselves, but I realise that's mere wishful thinking. Particularly when smartphones now play the role for restless, short attention span adults that babies' dummies play for infants (i.e. keeping them quiet and out of everyone's way).
  51. @Altai
    And on the topic of social media infecting the whole world with idiosyncratic American social taboos. Look at his face.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1292383414482477058

    'N******' isn't a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain. You don't go around saying the word, but in the context of reporting the word used by another in service of an anti-racist media agenda, I can't imagine somebody being genuinely offended like they would almost be obliged to in the US.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53708991
    BBC DJ Sideman quits over the corporation's decision to broadcast the n-word

    The 1Xtra star, whose real name is David Whitely, has announced he will leave the station after the BBC declined to say sorry for a reporter's uncensored use of a racial slur during a news broadcast in July. The BBC says the word was “editorially justified given the context”, and was quoted in full at the request of the family of a victim of a racist attack.
     
    South Africa too has embraced the American notion of the 'N word' and uses the 'K word' (SA has embraced a lot of American CRT stuff) to refer to the word 'Kaffir' which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus. It's silly and weird and I can't find a comparable example elsewhere. The difference between using a slur and referring to a slur seems clear for every other kind of ethnic slur.

    Replies: @Altai, @Jmaie, @dearieme, @Kratoklastes, @syonredux

    ‘Kaffir’ which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus.

    Which is funny because the origin of the word is Arabic and refers to any non-believer. To a Muslim, any SA person would be kafir – black, brown or white.

  52. “Look, there are 20,000,000 black guys in America. That’s a huge number.

    Maybe 44M?

    • Replies: @FPD72
    @Jmaie

    “Maybe 44M?”

    20,000,000 black GUYS, not guys and gals.

    I know that in the NE that “you guys” is sometimes used to distinguish the second person plural for the singular but without “you” or “youse” the term generally refers to males.

    , @Jack D
    @Jmaie

    I could be wrong but maybe half of the 44M are gals and not guys?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  53. @Anon
    Most SJWs have a personality disorder, and they don't deal well with the internet. The interesting thing is, the rioters are the ones who grew up with the internet. Even though they've had years to learn how to handle it and set emotional barriers between it and themselves, they can't. Everything that happens on the net is personal to them. They internalize someone else's outrage, and launch attacks on perfect strangers because of this. Trying to get people fired, or physically attacking them for their opinions, or trying to blind a stranger with lasers because you don't like their politics, is crazy stuff.

    A case in point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGZpo5s6voI&feature=emb_logo

    Replies: @Bert, @Rob McX, @Neoconned

    The interesting thing is, the rioters are the ones who grew up with the internet.

    That may be their problem. Humans have gone 200,000 years without the Internet and never adapted to the life it forces them to lead. Perhaps those with one foot in the pre-Internet world (because that’s the world they grew up in) are more capable of seeing the difficulties inherent in online communication in a more balanced perspective.

  54. @Lot
    “ threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa“

    Really? I can’t think if any 5+ dead attacks by antifa, and a fair number by the “far right.”

    It probably will happen fairly soon. Their ability to loot stores and smash the property of their enemies with impunity will attract the deranged even more than normal. They were a really small thing mostly limited to the NW, NY, and a few college towns not too long ago.

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    Replies: @fnn, @Genrick Yagoda, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Almost Missouri, @sayless

    The Dayton shooter, Conor Betts, killed nine. His twitter feed showed he identified as Antifa. Since Antifa doesn’t give out membership cards (Actually, like the Mafia, they claim they don’t even exist as an organization) that’s all the proof you need.

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2019/08/04/confirmed-dayton-shooter-connor-betts-was-a-socialist-satanist-antifa-and-democrat/comment-page-1/

    • Replies: @Lot
    @fnn

    Six of the nine dead were black, another was his sister.

    He certainly was a leftist, like a large part of the US population, but doesn’t seem to have been an act of leftist terrorism.

    Replies: @fnn

  55. @Andrew M
    The Dunbar number itself probably has high variability. A long line of rural hill farmers, staring at sheep or goats all day, would have a lower Dunbar number, maybe 50-100; whereas a cosmopolitan tribe of moneylenders might easily have a number in excess of 250.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Paul Mendez

    I think you’re confused. The Dunbar number is not your actual number of contacts. It’s your potential for storing/manipulating them. Like your computer has a certain amount of storage capacity. Whether you use it all or not depends on your situation.

    IIRC the Dunbar number is not just the number of people you can recognize, but the number of people you know things about. Not just their names but their marriage status, relative intelligence, honesty and so on.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Paul Mendez


    The Dunbar number is not your actual number of contacts. It’s your potential for storing/manipulating them.
     
    That would be my understanding of it too. In fact, most people are capable of knowing far more than 150 people in the sense of recognising them and being able to give some facts about them. I probably "know" 1000 people if you include politicians, film stars, broadcasters, scientists, historical figures, etc. Being able to handle this many people on a social level is another matter, and I can believe the 150 ceiling.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @Andrew M
    @Paul Mendez

    No, I mean the storage capacity itself has high variability. A hill farmer would have no need to know 150 people; whereas a trader would need to know many more. Selection pressures would lead to different Dunbar capacities.

  56. What a fatuous article, and it’s orders of magnitude more substantial than most journolistism.

  57. @AnotherDad
    Steve, i think you're both right. He's right about the social media scale up. But you're right that this isn't just the peons. Our "elites" are used to influencing a lot of people, but they weren't really "super-Dunbar" the masses weren't in their social circle and didn't talk back. No they do, and boy does it piss off the elites!

    The other thing--obvious and already heavily remarked upon--it's only now with social media that women are really involved in intellectual and political "conversation". Sure they were--to some extent--reading the paper or watching the news and having opinions. But they were not a significant part of the feedback and churn. They weren't the people writing the letters to the editor or engaging in any actual debate. With social media, now women are driving our political and "intellectual" "conversation" ... isn't it great?

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Anonymous

    I think you’ve nailed it — women are getting more deeply involved, emotionally involved, and look how that plays out. And men who should know better are under heavy pressure to go along.

    But even before social media completely amped up the cray-cray, you could see it happening as women gained more influence in mainstream news coverage and the political bullhorn.

  58. China counterfeits and smuggles twenty thousand fake US driver’s licenses in time for the election. Twenty thousand that we’ve found.

  59. Dunbar Number

    I read somewhere that the average Facebook user has 125 Facebook friends.

    took place before a battery of cell phone cameras

    I figured out just about six years ago (today is the sixth anniversary of GENTILIVUS GIANTIVUS purlioning his ultimate cigarillo) that the thing that fueled Ferguson to keep on happening longer than it would have in the past is that everyone was suddenly carrying around in their pockets movie cameras with instant worldwide connectivity. That was not the case the last time there were significant black riots before then, 2001 in Cincinnati.

  60. @Dieter Kief
    Martin Gurri makes a very importat point. - Technology brings unknown George Floyd in intimate contact with millions of people troughout the world while he dies. - And that - to put it simple: - Is too much for them. They can't handle their emotions. And right: The elites don't differ here at all.

    Shortly after George Flod's death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been "murdered".

    (It is normally frowned on in Germany to publicly talk of someone beeing a murderer as long as he has not been convicted).

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @AnotherDad, @Redman, @JerseyJeffersonian

    Same in the US actually. This is the first incident in my 50 years where the American media threw caution to the wind and decided to convict before the story was in.

    Even with Rodney King (which involved a hidden video 100 times worse than St. Floyd) the media did not jump in this way. Universal emotion seems to hold the whip hand today.

    • Replies: @Prester John
    @Redman

    Maximum trolling for maximum $$$s. Sometimes I really wonder whether in their heart of hearts the Vox, Slate and PMSNBC crowd really believe some of the pap that's fed to the Gullible Great Unwashed.

  61. @Altai
    @Altai

    Here is his statement.

    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1292177890423996416

    What's the word some have used? 'Black megalomania', this dude has never had a moment of introspection or self-doubt in his life of his own greatness, hence his response by resigning, how will the BBC ever recover.

    And again, there is no 'N word' taboo in Britain, it's a slur and you don't use it, but the idea that the BBC broke an understood social taboo here is insane. It is understood as an American taboo to say 'the N word' when referring to it in a clinical fashion to report it's use. It would look silly.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux

    And again, there is no ‘N word’ taboo in Britain…

    You’re quite a few years behind the times on this. The word – in any context – has been taboo for a decade or two. Six years ago a regional BBC radio presenter in Devon was forced to resign after he played the 1932 song The Sun Has Got His Hat On, which contains the N-word.

    Up to about the 1980s, Britain was far less priggish about these matters than the US. One of the most popular films of 1970 was Carry On Up the Jungle, with Bernard Bresslaw playing the main African character in blackface and a fuzzy wig. In it every cliché about African jungle dwellers is milked dry for its comic effect.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @Rob McX

    That isn't the same thing as a BBC reporter not being allowed to report that somebody else was called a 'N******' at the behest of the family of that person. In a clinical context of reporting it was never like the US where you can't say the word to reference it's use.

  62. @Paul Mendez
    @Andrew M

    I think you’re confused. The Dunbar number is not your actual number of contacts. It’s your potential for storing/manipulating them. Like your computer has a certain amount of storage capacity. Whether you use it all or not depends on your situation.

    IIRC the Dunbar number is not just the number of people you can recognize, but the number of people you know things about. Not just their names but their marriage status, relative intelligence, honesty and so on.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Andrew M

    The Dunbar number is not your actual number of contacts. It’s your potential for storing/manipulating them.

    That would be my understanding of it too. In fact, most people are capable of knowing far more than 150 people in the sense of recognising them and being able to give some facts about them. I probably “know” 1000 people if you include politicians, film stars, broadcasters, scientists, historical figures, etc. Being able to handle this many people on a social level is another matter, and I can believe the 150 ceiling.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Rob McX

    Rob, I erected a large coal fired steam boiler. I had 185 men on the payroll, I knew them all by name, which foreman they were working for and where they should be. So the 150 seems small to me.

  63. Does the Dunbar Number include just people you know in real life such as friends and co-workers, or does it include heavily covered news and media figures such as Trump. Obama, Limbaugh, your favorite writer, rock star, etc etc — people who it is said seem almost “like family?” Like the crusty beloved old guy who’s been calling the Penguin games for 40 years. Even fictional characters from your favorite TV series?

    I suppose your DN in 1920 was skewed toward real-life flesh-and-blood people but in 2020 would be more skewed toward people you see, read or hear through the media.

  64. @Lot
    “ threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa“

    Really? I can’t think if any 5+ dead attacks by antifa, and a fair number by the “far right.”

    It probably will happen fairly soon. Their ability to loot stores and smash the property of their enemies with impunity will attract the deranged even more than normal. They were a really small thing mostly limited to the NW, NY, and a few college towns not too long ago.

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    Replies: @fnn, @Genrick Yagoda, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Almost Missouri, @sayless

    AntiFa Dindu Micah Xavier Johnson shot 5 cops dead in Dallas. AntiFa Willem van Spronsen tried to kill ICE agents, was himself killed.

    AmtiFa/BLM William T. Jones Jr shot an innocent white kid in the temple, and then proceeded to shoot only white people in his hour long rampage.

    You’re behind the times, mate.

  65. @Altai
    @Hypnotoad666

    Even something like global warming, the most pragmatic and very male type of discourse has been superseded by 'How Dare You! Girl' (Also having the effect of further polarising the issue with libertarians and the right in the US digging their heels in further on the issue without thinking about the very basic science that derived this from Sailer-like chemists and physicists) and purely an abstract moral-religious framework rather than more prosaic discussions of emission percentages, lag times, sea level rise effects or use technologies or better use of energy.

    People (Young women) were literally putting up her picture in coffee shops and work places like a saints picture. Perhaps it is a good thing on that issue, nothing gets things done faster but it seems like it's a silver lining upon national suicide. But then the topic of the game changed and we all forgot about her again.

    And just like how males in video games act with abandon, assured of the lack of real world consequences to their virtual exploits, young women too, seem to feel that their virtual, high intensity social media game doesn't really have any consequences. They play it like a game, not like their real life social lives. But the media take it all very seriously.

    The only other really successful game that ever took off with the fairer sex was the Sims franchise. Since then, despite the obvious untapped market, nobody has ever made a video game that was seriously played by anything other than a niche minority of women.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Animal Crossing

    • Replies: @Altai
    @Daniel Chieh

    True, though it's basically the Sims with more busy work, but not being on PC, it's still more niche since you need to own a specific system to play it. And a lot of mobile gaming.

  66. Kling’s theory fails to include the effects of false home imprisonment by Democrat governors and mayors pretending that the Wuhan virus is a deadly threat to everybody. Perhaps self-isolation has caused white liberals, elites and proles alike, to lose contact with their Dunbar cohort so they have replaced them with virtual friends, mainly the characters of woke dramas which are the main staple of Netflix aka the Obama Network. Netflix validates what they are told by corporate fake news, creating a fun house hall of mirrors making people feel threatened, angry, and self righteous. Ironically, BLM madness doesn’t seem to have overtaken the black community so much (the rising murder rates are purely the effect of de-policing and can be reversed). Why? Because any trip to an urban park should convince you that blacks are not self-isolating. They are maintaining full contact with their Dunbar cohorts, and they never watch the jive mainstream news or read newspapers, anyway. And why watch Netflix when you can see this outside your front door?

    https://youtu.be/THbn2mr1iGo

  67. Great comments, a really absorbing discussion here even if it’s not exactly news that social media has had some grave unintended consequences. I’ll point once again to the 1963 Outer Limits episode in which the aliens plot to conquer Earth simply by giving us the technology to demoralize ourselves and tear our own society apart — irresistably addictive technology that lets us spy and pry into each others’ lives.

    http://mylifeintheglowoftheouterlimits.blogspot.com/2013/11/episode-spotlight-obit-11041963.html

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Known Fact


    the aliens plot to conquer Earth simply by giving us the technology to demoralize ourselves
     
    What does it mean exactly to “demoralize” someone, in this sense. And what is the effect of it?

    Replies: @Known Fact

  68. Gladwell was on Kimmel talking about how intuitions about people only work if you know them well. Gigerenzer says once you are an expert your immediate intuition is better that other people given time to think (he also says golf pros do better with difficult putts if they have only three seconds, because more time lets them overthink and degrades their performance). I think the problem is people are seeing things without the knowledge to interpret them. They think Floyd was a typical black man, and much more importantly that Floyd is a typical policeman.

    Minneapolis police department policies “explicitly required moving an arrestee from a prone position to a recovery position when the maximal restraint technique is used and required continuous monitoring of an arrestee’s condition” according to Chief Arradondo. Chauvin did not move Floyd from prone position, even after no pulse could be found. He is not a typical cop. There have been a series of these controversies and Chauvin decides to go to town on a black man despite–maybe because— there is a audience filming and loudly telling him they are; he must have a screw loose. Or maybe he is a sort of Lenin.

    Historian Sean McMeekin warns of rise of ‘Marxist-style’ socialism in the West
    McMeekin’s new history of the Russian Revolution in which the American professor sounds a warning about the rise in popularity of “Marxist-style maximalist socialism” in the US and Western capitalist countries.

    McMeekin, theme: revolutions – said he saw the likes of Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn​ as figures who had formed their belief systems during the Cold War and therefore not figures of tomorrow.

    “What is more interesting is the chord they have struck,” he said. “It’s not that I necessarily think this is a world-conquering movement, it’s more that it’s quite surprising when you think where we were 25 years ago when it really did seem that Marx was dead and buried.”

    McMeekin’s The Russian Revolution places more emphasis on the effect of World War I in events 100 years ago and details Lenin’s relationship with Germany, which provided the Bolsheviks and others with substantial funds to foment unrest. Lenin was “the critical catalyst of chaos, a one-man demolition crew sent to wreck Russia’s war effort” . He thinks the legacy of the revolution is less clear than before the collapse of the Soviet Union when the world was living under the guns of the Cold War. “It still lives with us in the sense of the changing of our political vocabulary, our understanding of political economy, of social revolution and concepts to do with the legitimacy of governments and whether they can and should be toppled.”

  69. I don’t understand the parameters of the Dunbar number. I know more than 150 people. I know their faces, their names, theirs spouses, children, pets names. Does the Dunbar number have to do with how many newly introduced faces and names you can memorize in one day? I need more info on what this Dunbar number actually denotes.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Kyle

    Kyle, I am confused too. When I was in HS I was active in a few clubs, sports and a frat. I probably knew half the school by name. When I went to college by my senior year I probably knew most of the Senior and Junior classes as again I was very active in a couple of organizations, a frat, class officer and on the student council. I also was an Apprentice Ironworker and met dozens of guys on jobs. I didn't forget the guys from HS, family, the neighborhood and added hundreds in college. So 150 seems way low.

  70. Or, perhaps, the opposite has happened as well: elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.

    This dynamic seriously hurt Bernie Sanders in 2016.

  71. Hardcore porn has destroyed the American mind.

    Don’t underestimate the power of such utter depravity experienced over and over by developing minds.

    I’d hang them all.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @John Long

    I'm already hung, thank you.

  72. @HammerJack
    At least 21 people shot at yet another "block party" this time in SE Washington D.C.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/at-least-21-people-were-shot-one-fatally-at-a-gathering-in-southeast-washington/2020/08/09/dde4ee6c-da34-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

    The increased susceptibility of certain groups to covid is (like everything else) an artifact of systemic racism and white supremacy. The actual habits of people are completely irrelevant, and by the way you are racist.

    Replies: @Lot, @Buffalo Joe

    More bad aiming, 1 death, 21 wounded.

  73. @Mr McKenna

    The Floyd protests fit into this pattern. The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis, were local and fleeting but took place before a battery of cell phone cameras—and at once became global and searchable. The public experienced a digital murder. Because it was visual, it felt personal. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend. Because his death was searchable, it turned into a recurring nightmare, a wound that could not heal.
     
    There is no shortage of horrific, violent crime visited upon white people, and incredibly enough a fair amount of it is available for view on YouTube and similar platforms. At least until the site moderators find out about it. The reason a criminal like George Floyd is made into an international media sensation--while no one's even heard of John Geer, for instance--isn't a matter of technology. It's a matter of which examples the owners of the mass media decide to select and amplify. And in that, a pattern exists.

    Replies: @Fidelios Automata, @Able

    And why did they (the media) pick such an unsympathetic victim this time? Was it perhaps intentional?

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @Fidelios Automata

    Even though the victim was far from ideal, the released footage was tailor-made for tugging at the heart strings of female SJWs, negroes, and others who are all about "feels" and impervious to facts and logic.

    Why was the more illuminating footage suppressed, along with the toxicology report?

  74. You can’t let yourself go insane over some drugged-up bouncer in Minnesota.

    Cynical manipulation isn’t insanity. It’s evil.

    The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis

    Is that where Cup Foods is? You can’t get Powdermilk Biscuits in Powderhorn Park. Not even at Ingebretsen’s, although lefse may do in a pinch.

    Has this Dunbar number theory ever been tested?

    The Kowloon Walled City is no more, but there is still Dharavi in Mumbletybai:

  75. @Mr McKenna

    The Floyd protests fit into this pattern. The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis, were local and fleeting but took place before a battery of cell phone cameras—and at once became global and searchable. The public experienced a digital murder. Because it was visual, it felt personal. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend. Because his death was searchable, it turned into a recurring nightmare, a wound that could not heal.
     
    There is no shortage of horrific, violent crime visited upon white people, and incredibly enough a fair amount of it is available for view on YouTube and similar platforms. At least until the site moderators find out about it. The reason a criminal like George Floyd is made into an international media sensation--while no one's even heard of John Geer, for instance--isn't a matter of technology. It's a matter of which examples the owners of the mass media decide to select and amplify. And in that, a pattern exists.

    Replies: @Fidelios Automata, @Able

    another example is the elderly couple gunned down at the Delaware cemetary

  76. anon[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @RichardTaylor

    Or, perhaps ... elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right ...
     
    Good point. The current elites didn't exactly rise up from among the people. They've been under special protection their whole lives. Very pampered. As it turns out, they are the ones who are fragile.

    It doesn't take much to break them. Which has implications for the future.

    Replies: @anon

    As it turns out, they are the ones who are fragile.

    Indeed.

    So I wonder, can a medium level academic in a 5th tier teachers college write a book entitled Elite Fragility and expect to get invites to TED talks, corporate speaking gigs, academic visiting prof gigs and a whole lotta book sale pumping to get the text on the NDT Best Seller List?

    Or am I kidding myself?

    • LOL: RichardTaylor
  77. @Altai
    And on the topic of social media infecting the whole world with idiosyncratic American social taboos. Look at his face.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1292383414482477058

    'N******' isn't a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain. You don't go around saying the word, but in the context of reporting the word used by another in service of an anti-racist media agenda, I can't imagine somebody being genuinely offended like they would almost be obliged to in the US.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53708991
    BBC DJ Sideman quits over the corporation's decision to broadcast the n-word

    The 1Xtra star, whose real name is David Whitely, has announced he will leave the station after the BBC declined to say sorry for a reporter's uncensored use of a racial slur during a news broadcast in July. The BBC says the word was “editorially justified given the context”, and was quoted in full at the request of the family of a victim of a racist attack.
     
    South Africa too has embraced the American notion of the 'N word' and uses the 'K word' (SA has embraced a lot of American CRT stuff) to refer to the word 'Kaffir' which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus. It's silly and weird and I can't find a comparable example elsewhere. The difference between using a slur and referring to a slur seems clear for every other kind of ethnic slur.

    Replies: @Altai, @Jmaie, @dearieme, @Kratoklastes, @syonredux

    the word ‘Kaffir’ which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus.

    I should think the “somehow” was that it was the dismissive word for Bantu used by Arab slave traders.

    P.S. there are some muslims in South Africa.

  78. @fnn
    @Lot

    The Dayton shooter, Conor Betts, killed nine. His twitter feed showed he identified as Antifa. Since Antifa doesn't give out membership cards (Actually, like the Mafia, they claim they don't even exist as an organization) that's all the proof you need.


    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2019/08/04/confirmed-dayton-shooter-connor-betts-was-a-socialist-satanist-antifa-and-democrat/comment-page-1/

    Replies: @Lot

    Six of the nine dead were black, another was his sister.

    He certainly was a leftist, like a large part of the US population, but doesn’t seem to have been an act of leftist terrorism.

    • Replies: @fnn
    @Lot

    It looks like he was hitting random people in the crowd in front of a bar. Some of the people were black and one was his sister. Dayton is not exactly a big city, such things can happen by chance. IIRC, the bar he attacked was a pro-Trump redneck bar and the signs or bumper stickers on the wall indicated that.

  79. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    People have always responded to stories on a personal level. Uncle Toms Cabin helped start the Civil War. The TV pictures from Vietnam strongly affected people back home.
    What has changed isn’t that we have too many stories overloading our Dunbar circuits.
    What has happened is that the Dunbar circle of 150 real life acquaintances no longer exists for many millenials.
    The live all their life online. They literally don’t have flesh and blood friends. They rarely look up from their cell phones to acknowledge any real person’s existence.
    Instead of expanding their Dunbar circle of reality to include distant stories, they’ve replaced reality with stories.

    • Agree: Buffalo Joe
  80. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    Steve, i think you're both right. He's right about the social media scale up. But you're right that this isn't just the peons. Our "elites" are used to influencing a lot of people, but they weren't really "super-Dunbar" the masses weren't in their social circle and didn't talk back. No they do, and boy does it piss off the elites!

    The other thing--obvious and already heavily remarked upon--it's only now with social media that women are really involved in intellectual and political "conversation". Sure they were--to some extent--reading the paper or watching the news and having opinions. But they were not a significant part of the feedback and churn. They weren't the people writing the letters to the editor or engaging in any actual debate. With social media, now women are driving our political and "intellectual" "conversation" ... isn't it great?

    Replies: @Known Fact, @Anonymous

    Up until the World Wars, in the US cities and towns were run by women’s clubs. The clubs ensured the quiet environment for marriage and children that the women needed. It also ensured that anybody the women disliked ran onto severe trouble — men who hit their wives, women who violated the moral/sexual code, men who wouldn’t marry their pregnant girlfriends, and so on. Plus giving relief to people they thought worthwhile but unlucky. The women’s clubs included (of course) the wives of just about every economically important person in town, and were thus adequately funded and had adequate informal enforcement available. https://www.britannica.com/event/club-movement
    They did a fairly good job of running the towns from the women’s standpoint, a much better job than the men could have done. Typically the men simply couldn’t perceive what was obvious to the women. OTH, when the subject shifted from immediate environment to more abstract subjects such as Prohibition, the clubs didn’t do very well. I think the classic men’s objection was “I don’t have any objection nice ladies, but they’re trying to make me one”.
    Eventually the whole women’s club phenomenon was destroyed by the bureaucratization of “social work”, which is government paid, funded, and controlled.

    But here’s a parody of a women’s club that is strongly recognizable today:

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Anonymous

    ThreeThreeNine, yes there were women's cluns but I doubt they had any political or financial clout. The organizations with clout were for men such as Masons, Rotary, Kiwanis,Odd Fellows, Knights of Columbus and Moose etc. Need a job? Need a loan? Need a reference? These were the people who facilitated that.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  81. @BenKenobi
    I have a friend who is a childless "Cool Beer Uncle" to his half-Mexican nieces and nephews borne by his sister. His brother is a gay guy who thinks I'm cute. His entire family seems like the high-end counterpart of the White-death: no opioid or meth deaths, but just a voluntary removal from the gene-pool. It's all very sad imho.

    But here's a funny anecdote from his life: He has/had a very African friend by the name of Dunya. I met him several times. Nice guy, I easily bro'd out with him. Buuuuut... About two years ago Dunya managed to get himself deported from the States (Buffalo area) for selling weed. He immediately called my buddy for emergency support. My friend, being a good person used his credit card to put Dunya up in a Niagara Falls hotel for one night.

    But Dunya stayed for about two weeks and racked up a $4000 bill.

    The copious "I told you so" was delicious.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    But Dunya stayed for about two weeks and racked up a $4000 bill.

    A fraction of the bill Dubya left us.

  82. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    “ threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa“

    Really? I can’t think if any 5+ dead attacks by antifa, and a fair number by the “far right.”

    It probably will happen fairly soon. Their ability to loot stores and smash the property of their enemies with impunity will attract the deranged even more than normal. They were a really small thing mostly limited to the NW, NY, and a few college towns not too long ago.

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    Replies: @fnn, @Genrick Yagoda, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Almost Missouri, @sayless

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    See: Edward Dutton, How to Judge People by What They Look Like. Thesis: Industrial revolution has ended environmental culling of mutational load. Experience in animal breeding suggests that under conditions of rapid population increase without environmental culling mammalian gene pools rapidly increase mutational load. Mutational load is quite often manifested as asymmetries and neurological deficits.
    Worth reading.

  83. @Dieter Kief
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    This remark of yours has not only a sarcastic side to it. It runs deeper in my eyes. Death is where normally religion kicks in - because death hints at questions that in an everyday context can't be answered but are there nonetheless.

    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has - - - - - found God.

    Add to that, that in the Christian religion, the converted sinner is ranking morally quite high.

    Luke 15:7

    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

    Replies: @reactionry, @HallParvey, @Crawfurdmuir, @Charlotte

    Luke 15:7

    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

    This is one of those things, in the Bible, that leaves us to wonder if the sage got it right.

    If, as is indicated, joy in heaven is much, much greater when “one sinner repenteth” than over ninety and nine who have not sinned, and therefore have no need for repentence, then to increase the joy in heaven, people should go out and sin up a storm. Then repent. Then sin, again and again. Then repent again and again.

    Perhaps this is where the need for regular confession comes from. If you haven’t sinned, you really have nothing to confess. Unless you are lying about sinning in the confessional, which I suppose is a sin, which could qualify. If joy in heaven is dependent on repentance, then sin is an absolute necessity.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @HallParvey

    Your argument unfolds quite logically- and that's why it doesn't quite reach what is intended with Luke 15:7.


    Speaking metaphorically now - since the Bible is no discoursive book - : - I'd say it is rather a pastiche of hearsay, thoughts, and scriptures.

    It's about attacks from neighbors and or foreigners; droughts, floods, thunder and lightning, fires, famines, losing home. Plus - rage, greed, sin, and self-aggrandizing, and wrong admonition, murder, lust, pride, vanity, desperation, fear, insanity. Disobedience. The worshipping of deceptive Gods, the experience of the attractiveness of various devils, and being blinded (overwhelmed) by false prospects and aims. And wonders too, Angel's release, relief, hope, joy, God.
    So - logic is the right way to understand the Bible as soon as one applies a stochastic logic - or a rather informal or a patchwork one.
    Seen from another perspective (there are in innumerous many of those) the logic of the Bible might be deciphered with the method of -  Jackson Pollock or Caspar David Friedrich.
     If one approaches Friedrich's Sailboats at a Harbour in the Evening,

    https://www.kunst-gemalde.com/Boote-im-Hafen-am-Abend-romantische-Caspar-David-Friedrich.html  

     You - all of a sudden - when being close enough, see the sailboats disappear in incredibly plausible brush-strokes and structures - the same is true for Jackson Pollock's paintings. But here, it works the other way round- if you go further away from them, the chaos melts into meaning (depending again on the perspective, but also on the viewer's mood, the time of day, the year, the decade, etc. - Pollock is quite close to how the Bible came into being - the texts are a wild mixture of all kinds of stories/legends/words/visions/...

    The late Leonard Cohen laughs about the idea, that the Holy Bible well - You Don't Know Me from the Wind/ You Never Will  You Never Sinned/  I'm just the little Jew who wrote the Bible

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WlbQRoz3o4  

    - Then Cohen intonates the next line or two - mimicking (very gently though) - - - - Bob Dylan...
    Oh and Cohen has a refrain in this song The Future and it goes like this: When they say repent - I wonder what they meant... - and I think he's right. Leonard Cohen is right in pointing out that you (always) need to wonder what it means to repent. Otherwise you - like so many others - won't find out. 

    PS

    What people really did or do while they repent - is part of our (as a whole) unpenetrable collective journey through - - - space and time (and being....). It needs to be practiced even though it can never be completely understood.

    Replies: @Alrenous

  84. Typical – leftists blame white men and the various isms and everything that’s good in western civilization, while conservatives and “moderates” of various stripes eagerly accept the framing (it’s all totally organic and inevitable!) but dream up fanciful and ridiculous explanations in order to distract the proles who aren’t buying the approved narrative.

    We all know what sparked the 2020 riots, and it’s neither racism nor the stupid Dunbar number. They weren’t organic, and I refuse to even call them the George Floyd riots as that’s just the legacy media’s cover story. It’s a left-wing insurrection, spearheaded by Antifa, funded by “philanthropists” like Soros and woke-capital DIE largesse, protected from prosecution or retaliation by astoundingly corrupt city officials seeking high status and/or reelection, and sanitized for public consumption by a “mainstream” media which long ago abandoned even the flimsiest pretense of caring about the facts, bolstered by “intellectuals” from college and university departments that should never have existed.

    Like every other “revolution”, it’s all completely top-down. There is no need or purpose to explain the “nation’s outrage” because there isn’t any such outrage, it’s all made up.

    And anyone who publicly uses the term “Floyd protests” is part of the group that’s behind it.

  85. @Jmaie

    “Look, there are 20,000,000 black guys in America. That’s a huge number.
     
    Maybe 44M?

    Replies: @FPD72, @Jack D

    “Maybe 44M?”

    20,000,000 black GUYS, not guys and gals.

    I know that in the NE that “you guys” is sometimes used to distinguish the second person plural for the singular but without “you” or “youse” the term generally refers to males.

  86. U.S. Cities with the Highest 2020 Violent Crime Rates (2010 Census Percentage of Black Residents)
    1. Detroit (82.7%)
    2. Memphis (63.3%)
    3. Birmingham, AL (73.4%)
    4. Baltimore (63.7%)
    5. Flint (56.6%)

    Facts are stubborn things.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Bob Laughlin

    Kinda odd how Kendi has apparently never seen WorldStarHipHop, isn't it?

  87. @Almost Missouri
    @Buzz Mohawk

    This is a really excellent joke. Not only is it very funny, it is very true. And it very succinctly points out the folly of accepting this very poor replacement for real religion, and implicitly points out how many people (especially the young women so prevalent at Floyd protests) can't function meaningfully without the structure of a religion, whether a real one or a fake one.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Alexander Turok

    This is a really excellent joke. Not only is it very funny, it is very true.

    Because George Floyd is the manifestation of the Anti-Christ.

  88. From the Mercatus Center:

    The Mercatus Center in the Commonwealth of Virginia isn’t to be confused with Mercatornet in the Commonwealth of Australia, which covers bioethics.

    The latter just posted this:

    ‘Black bioethics’ emerging as a rebellion against conventional bioethics

    This accounts, she says, for the increasingly fissiparous nature of bioethics – black bioethics, disability bioethics, LGBT bioethics, Latinx bioethics, and so on. “Bioethics has always had subfields, but this instance is different because even the subfields are splintering. And this is out of people’s frustration with not getting a seat at the proverbial bioethics table so instead they’re creating their own table.

    Smolletism invades biology and ethics! Looking-glass science!

  89. @Almost Missouri
    @Altai


    It’s actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladaptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life.
     
    I've only witnessed one instance of "transgenderism" such that I can comment on it. In that instance, the parents, I think, initially recognized that the daughter's claim of gender dysphoria was absurd and actually a sign of something else, and so they initially resisted it. Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance to this false diagnosis of what was obviously (to me and to you) "a cry for help" (and this kid certainly had a lot of other stuff she needed help with, but not her gender identity as she was very obviously a "girly girl"). Hobbled by the "logic" of liberalism, over time the parents couldn't produce any cogent resistance to their daughter's insistence that she was the wrong gender, and so the daughter gradually began to get her way. Even worse, driven by the false "logic" of liberalism, the parents gradually began to agree with her, eventually acquiring the aberrant glow of smugly virtuous liberals as their daughter chemically mutilated herself.

    If nothing else, it was an object lesson that ideas have consequences. Other than their liberalism, the parents were fairly normal people. They lived fairly normal lives and, I think, instinctually understood that their daughter's gender dysphoria was hogwash, but they were, in a sense, mugged by their own ideology. They professed to believe all this stuff, and their daughter was essentially daring them to prove it. They did. Bad move. But their first bad move was to profess liberalism in the first place.

    Virtue signalling is all fun and games until someone loses a gender.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Dieter Kief, @Anonymous

    The same reason so many Social Justice Warriors shop for the “Area of Good Schools” whenever they have progeny to look out for.

  90. @Almost Missouri
    @Altai


    It’s actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladaptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life.
     
    I've only witnessed one instance of "transgenderism" such that I can comment on it. In that instance, the parents, I think, initially recognized that the daughter's claim of gender dysphoria was absurd and actually a sign of something else, and so they initially resisted it. Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance to this false diagnosis of what was obviously (to me and to you) "a cry for help" (and this kid certainly had a lot of other stuff she needed help with, but not her gender identity as she was very obviously a "girly girl"). Hobbled by the "logic" of liberalism, over time the parents couldn't produce any cogent resistance to their daughter's insistence that she was the wrong gender, and so the daughter gradually began to get her way. Even worse, driven by the false "logic" of liberalism, the parents gradually began to agree with her, eventually acquiring the aberrant glow of smugly virtuous liberals as their daughter chemically mutilated herself.

    If nothing else, it was an object lesson that ideas have consequences. Other than their liberalism, the parents were fairly normal people. They lived fairly normal lives and, I think, instinctually understood that their daughter's gender dysphoria was hogwash, but they were, in a sense, mugged by their own ideology. They professed to believe all this stuff, and their daughter was essentially daring them to prove it. They did. Bad move. But their first bad move was to profess liberalism in the first place.

    Virtue signalling is all fun and games until someone loses a gender.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Dieter Kief, @Anonymous

    a) Ideas are dangerous because they might separate you from the herd.

    a’) And having not the right ideas is dangerous as soon as you need to separate from the herd and don’t because you lack insight – – and thus the energy to leave and/or dissent.

    Life is a risky undertaking – for liberals too.

    PS

    I loved the scenes in Jonathan Franzen’s novel Purity, which show a liberal middle-class family entering troubled waters because their son slowly but steadily – turns into a Republican. And I love those scenes in Tom Wolfe’s last novel Back to Blood, which show that the liberal/postmodern mindset in Miami is not ready to cope with problems that arise in a black neighborhood.

  91. @Russ
    @AnotherDad


    Just spitballing here, Dieter … but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?
     
    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry -- not cited -- should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @AnotherDad

    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset.

    The Poles just need to keep their women out of politics as much as possible.

    https://twitter.com/TJ_Knight/status/1291371460473294848/photo/1

  92. @Rob McX
    @Altai


    And again, there is no ‘N word’ taboo in Britain...
     
    You're quite a few years behind the times on this. The word - in any context - has been taboo for a decade or two. Six years ago a regional BBC radio presenter in Devon was forced to resign after he played the 1932 song The Sun Has Got His Hat On, which contains the N-word.

    Up to about the 1980s, Britain was far less priggish about these matters than the US. One of the most popular films of 1970 was Carry On Up the Jungle, with Bernard Bresslaw playing the main African character in blackface and a fuzzy wig. In it every cliché about African jungle dwellers is milked dry for its comic effect.

    Replies: @Altai

    That isn’t the same thing as a BBC reporter not being allowed to report that somebody else was called a ‘N******’ at the behest of the family of that person. In a clinical context of reporting it was never like the US where you can’t say the word to reference it’s use.

  93. @El Dato

    If people get 76 negative responses on social media, they worry, “Oh, no, the majority of my tribe of 150 has spoken out against me! I will be made an outcast and forced to wander along in the wilderness.”
     
    Yes, and you can also watch the same miserable and mis-interpretable scene again and again on every available channel from about 40 different "citizen churnalists". If you have a Google Glass (do these still exist) you can probably watch it 24/7 beamed in your retina. That's got to be telling your brain that this random event from nowhere has got to be somehow significant.

    For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.
     
    And they roundly deserve it, but it's also very top-down controlled. "Orders from the Editor".

    But we ARE living in unnatural times:

    https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Cognitive-Overload-Information-Technology-ebook/dp/B07GY1Z8H4

    We live in a world of limitless information. With technology advancing at an astonishingly fast pace, we are challenged to adapt to robotics and automated systems that threaten to replace us. Both at home and at work, an endless range of devices and Information Technology (IT) systems place demands upon our attention that human beings have never experienced before, but are our brains capable of processing it all? In this important new book, an in-depth view is taken of IT's under-studied dark side and its dire consequences on individuals, organizations, and society. With theoretical underpinnings from the fields of cognitive psychology, management, and information systems, the idea of brain overload is defined and explored, from its impact on our decision-making and memory to how we may cope with the resultant 'technostress'. Discussing the negative consequences of technology on work substitution, technologically induced work-family conflicts, and organizational design as well as the initiatives set up to combat these, the authors go on to propose measurement approaches for capturing the entangled aspects of IT-related overload. Concluding on an upbeat note, the book's final chapter explores emerging technologies that can illuminate our world when mindfully managed. Designed to better equip humans for dealing with new technologies, supported by case studies, and also exploring the idea of 'IT addiction', the book concludes by asking how IT processes may aid rather than hinder our cognitive functioning. This is essential reading for anyone interested in how we function in the digital age.

     

    You have to filter like never before in history of mankind.

    (Incidentally, did you notice in those films of Beirut people looking at their mobile screen to keep the movie-taking feedback loop going as the shockwave approaches through the streets at the speed of sound to wreck their stuff in real life? That kind of thing also happens in those "peaceful riots".)

    Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian

    Where’s the Butlerian Jihad when you need it?

  94. @Dieter Kief
    Martin Gurri makes a very importat point. - Technology brings unknown George Floyd in intimate contact with millions of people troughout the world while he dies. - And that - to put it simple: - Is too much for them. They can't handle their emotions. And right: The elites don't differ here at all.

    Shortly after George Flod's death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been "murdered".

    (It is normally frowned on in Germany to publicly talk of someone beeing a murderer as long as he has not been convicted).

    Replies: @Mike Pierson, Davenport Rector, Midfielder, @AnotherDad, @Redman, @JerseyJeffersonian

    Geez, too bad there aren’t any videos of any of her favorite “refugees” raping and murdering some young German girls for her to react to. The difference in her response in that instance might be very telling.

  95. @Anonymous


    Or, perhaps, the opposite has happened as well: elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.
     
    Anyone who wishes to know whether journalists can take a joke need only look at the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites. Do not even dream of criticising these people, because they have no sense of humour at all, let alone the capacity for self-reflection.

    Modern-day "journalism" is a "conversation" in which reporters tell the masses exactly what they should be thinking - or else. All the excitement over the interactive nature of the online world went away the moment it became clear that the Great Unwashed might derive a great deal of pleasure from the discomfiture of political hacks being called out as political hacks rather than being deferred to as the journalists they so fondly imagine themselves to be.

    Criticism, dissent, and (heaven forfend) mockery are, clearly, holdover institutions of White Privilege (boo!), so just nod your head, mouth the officially-approved platitudes, and put another BLM sign in the window, you racist lout!

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @dvorak

    Anyone who wishes to know whether journalists can take a joke need only look at the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites. Do not even dream of criticising these people, because they have no sense of humour at all, let alone the capacity for self-reflection.

    Modern-day “journalism” is a “conversation” in which reporters tell the masses exactly what they should be thinking – or else.

    Or look at how fast journalist moved to shut down the caustic “Learn to Code” meme that was directed at laid-off journalists.

    The media came to hate the internet for permitting their version of “The News” to be challenged. That’s why media outlets are increasingly shutting down comment sections or making it more difficult to post un-PC opinions online.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mr. Anon



    The media came to hate the internet for permitting their version of “The News” to be challenged. That’s why media outlets are increasingly shutting down comment sections or making it more difficult to post un-PC opinions online.

     

    One of my favourite MSM "suggestions" of recent years was that of requiring news websites to be licensed by the government. No doubt these theoretical licenses would be administered with the able assistance of the ADL (or some other anti-crimethink organisation).

    I think it may have taken as long as two seconds for people to start slagging it off as a crap idea.

    Can't you just see Ron Unz applying for one of these rarely-granted licenses and being told that his application was "under active review," they were working very hard on rushing his license to to him, and that he could expect to receive it in the post "any day now, honest."
  96. @Russ
    @AnotherDad


    Just spitballing here, Dieter … but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?
     
    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry -- not cited -- should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @AnotherDad

    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry — not cited — should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.

    What seems to have held sway is “childless woman”.

    This alone is a grievous mistake. Heck, each of these qualities alone is a mistake.

    Merkel–AFAICT not being a German–was bouncing along being a boring Christian Democrat establishment pol–Kohl 2.0. Then suddenly there were poor innocent “refugees” who needed her and an a instant the childless old biddy was “Mutter Merkel” the mother to millions.

    The fact that she had in a year or two a demographic catastrophe on the order of the US’s “legacy of slavery”, severely trashing the future of every actually German child … meant nothing. She was finally a nurturing mom!

    • Agree: Rob McX, bomag
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @AnotherDad


    The fact that she had in a year or two a demographic catastrophe on the order of the US’s “legacy of slavery”, severely trashing the future of every actually German child...
     
    Totally agree with this, but she can't have been a lone crusader for race replacement, as Germany is not a dictatorship. There must be a lot of Merkel's willing executioners, as it were.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    , @Lot
    @AnotherDad

    Both Poles and former East Germans have better politics than West Germans.

    Merkel ended up somewhat like Nixon in the 70s: shifting left with population. Her last couple coalitions included socialists, as her party lacked a majority.

    Speaking of childless, I think this may be why Kamala gets passed over despite being the overwhelming favorite in betting markets.

  97. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bert
    @Anon

    I think personalization of the internet via social media is like the La Brea Tar Pit for many people with mental health problems. An early 20's female college student of my acquaintance posted nude photos of herself weekly on Twitter and Instagram, often with the Pansexual Pride flag in the background. She was a SJW online as well. Having lots of internet followers makes them crazier than they were when they first aspired to having followers. How do these kids ever free themselves from social media's dopamine vicious cycle?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    An early 20’s female college student of my acquaintance posted nude photos of herself weekly on Twitter and Instagram, often with the Pansexual Pride flag in the background.

    I don’t think I will ever stop being amazed at what people are willing to post online without a second thought; nude pictures are the least of it. The online world seems to take the philosophy, “if it feels good, do it,” and turn it into a commandment.

    Everyone under 30 seems to utterly lack the sort of internal filter that would cause them to think twice about posting stuff for the world to see (and retain, should they so wish).

    I wonder how many people posting pictures of themselves with a drink in their hand are aware that many employers spend a lot of time scouring the net to find exactly that kind of picture of their prospective employees? There is no need to ask someone how they spend their off hours when they post their entire private life online in the hopes of getting a “like” from someone.

    How do these kids ever free themselves from social media’s dopamine vicious cycle?

    I’m not sure many of them ever do, particularly when it’s all they have ever known. Add to that an entire industry dedicated to keeping them on the hamster wheel and it adds up to a nigh-unstoppable machine:

    “Our product is a slot machine that plays you,” boasts Ramsay Brown, co-founder of App optimization consultancy Dopamine Labs.

    I did not know what a “retention consultant” was until quite recently, but I cannot say I was all that surprised to learn that there are people whose sole job it is to keep you looking at your smartphone screen.

    I would like to think that there are still a fair number of adults on hand to save these young people from themselves, but I realise that’s mere wishful thinking. Particularly when smartphones now play the role for restless, short attention span adults that babies’ dummies play for infants (i.e. keeping them quiet and out of everyone’s way).

  98. @HammerJack
    At least 21 people shot at yet another "block party" this time in SE Washington D.C.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/at-least-21-people-were-shot-one-fatally-at-a-gathering-in-southeast-washington/2020/08/09/dde4ee6c-da34-11ea-8051-d5f887d73381_story.html

    The increased susceptibility of certain groups to covid is (like everything else) an artifact of systemic racism and white supremacy. The actual habits of people are completely irrelevant, and by the way you are racist.

    Replies: @Lot, @Buffalo Joe

    Hammer, I didn’t know whether to push the Agree button or the LOL Need an “Agree this is funny button.” And it’s “Whites”, if you please.

  99. @AnotherDad
    @Russ


    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry — not cited — should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.
     
    What seems to have held sway is "childless woman".

    This alone is a grievous mistake. Heck, each of these qualities alone is a mistake.

    Merkel--AFAICT not being a German--was bouncing along being a boring Christian Democrat establishment pol--Kohl 2.0. Then suddenly there were poor innocent "refugees" who needed her and an a instant the childless old biddy was "Mutter Merkel" the mother to millions.

    The fact that she had in a year or two a demographic catastrophe on the order of the US's "legacy of slavery", severely trashing the future of every actually German child ... meant nothing. She was finally a nurturing mom!

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Lot

    The fact that she had in a year or two a demographic catastrophe on the order of the US’s “legacy of slavery”, severely trashing the future of every actually German child…

    Totally agree with this, but she can’t have been a lone crusader for race replacement, as Germany is not a dictatorship. There must be a lot of Merkel’s willing executioners, as it were.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Rob McX

    https://vdare.com/articles/nicholas-stix-is-the-final-solution-to-the-german-question-at-hand

    "Is the Final Solution to the German Question at Hand?"

  100. Seems there’s a bit of controversy over Shia LaBeouf playing a JEB Bush-style wannabe Latinx:

    Director denies he put Shia LaBeouf in ‘brownface’ but controversies linger

    The trailer contains many of the markers of a modern Los Angeles gangster flick and box office hit: guns, lovely Latinas, thumping music and attractive dudes in the dopest cars riding around the flatlands of L.A. as they lay down the law of the streets.

    Almost all the actors are brown-skinned Latinos, except for one. At the center of the clip is Shia LaBeouf — in dark-trim hair, black sunglasses and a barrio accent.

    Is it “brownface”?

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-08-06/shia-labeouf-david-ayer-brownface-latino-the-tax-collector#:~:text=Shia%20LaBeouf%20leads%20a%20cast,saga

  101. @Rob McX
    @Paul Mendez


    The Dunbar number is not your actual number of contacts. It’s your potential for storing/manipulating them.
     
    That would be my understanding of it too. In fact, most people are capable of knowing far more than 150 people in the sense of recognising them and being able to give some facts about them. I probably "know" 1000 people if you include politicians, film stars, broadcasters, scientists, historical figures, etc. Being able to handle this many people on a social level is another matter, and I can believe the 150 ceiling.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Rob, I erected a large coal fired steam boiler. I had 185 men on the payroll, I knew them all by name, which foreman they were working for and where they should be. So the 150 seems small to me.

  102. @Jmaie

    “Look, there are 20,000,000 black guys in America. That’s a huge number.
     
    Maybe 44M?

    Replies: @FPD72, @Jack D

    I could be wrong but maybe half of the 44M are gals and not guys?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jack D

    How dare you impose cishet standards on them! How do you know the other half identify as female? Clearly you enjoy White, hetero privilege. Shame on you.

  103. The “George Floyd” reaction was pre-planned. It all happened too quickly in too many places around the globe to suppose otherwise. Can you believe that the media from the Costco Magazine to the Smithsonian Magazine to my local credit union had all black advertisements in place within days? I didn’t know we were a Bantu nation with a small population of aging whites on Medicare?

    Then, our local supermarket chain had Bantu warriors checking people out within a week. They looked awesome and hostile in their hairdos. Upfront were posterboards cataloging the encomiums about all of the good things that the chain had done for its black customers … and all of the blacks they employed. Were they worried about being burnt out at the outskirts of Washington DC suburbia if they didn’t genuflect to BML?

    Oops, a week later, the Bantu warriors were gone. They were replaced with equally hostile black girls in the middle of a premium, high-priced white suburb. My wife reflected that the Bantu warriors probably decided that showing up for work was not part of their culture. Going to work, as it were, was another example (along with impulse control, time management, reason, future orientation, mathematics, and science) of “white supremacists” imposing their racist, colonial culture on West Africans.

    This is not going to turn out well …

  104. OT: Data points.

    Three more trannies pop up in the mugshots of the overnight arrestees out in that Portland shindig.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Daniel H

    What a bunch of Dementos.

    Andy Ngo is doing the Lord's work in Portland. I hope he stays safe. Antifa has already beaten him up once.

  105. @AnotherDad

    The Floyd protests fit into this pattern. The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis, were local and fleeting but took place before a battery of cell phone cameras—and at once became global and searchable. The public experienced a digital murder. Because it was visual, it felt personal. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend. Because his death was searchable, it turned into a recurring nightmare, a wound that could not heal.
     
    Of course, the public did not "experience a digital murder". They experienced a "digital drug overdose", marketed by minoritarians as "murder".

    But the rest of this is spot on--if not new. Our visual processing is very powerful--our #1 sensory input. And we simply have not evolved the filter--the skepticism--toward what we see, that we have toward what we hear (or read).

    This isn't brand new with social media. The media gave people a carefully curated version of Rodney King's beating 30 years ago--and ran it again and again. George Floyd just lets people do it themselves, more often if they like.

    But i think it's absolutely undeniable that minoritarianism could not have had its tentacles around the throat of white people and Western civilization 100 years ago, before TV and video. The ability of minoritarians to create totally false narratives--i.e. lies--and inject them directly into white people's brains has been the critical tool in our destruction.

    Simply end Hollyweird and you'd see a pretty big lurch back toward sanity.

    Replies: @Lurker, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Our visual processing is very powerful–our #1 sensory input. And we simply have not evolved the filter–the skepticism–toward what we see, that we have toward what we hear (or read)

    ^This!^

    The simple fact of what we see seems to have the biggest emotional impact. Priss Factor goes into immense detail, the many layers below the surface. But a lot of times its just the bloody obvious, the casting, the simplistic plots and interactions of TV, film, advertising.

    Whites are dumb, weak, criminal, lazy, disabled, gay. Blacks/browns are clever, inventive, loyal, hard working, confident, brave. On and on, day after day, thats whats on the screen.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @Lurker

    Except that this is consistently undermined in real life. Black pro athlete looks awesome. Until he speaks like the ghetto moron he is. St. George Floyd the Holy Racial Redeemed looks like freaked out monster / punk in the full video.

    Then there are the commercial s . Generations of disappointment make everyone discount everything in them. You don't get seamonkeys like the back of the comic book promised. You get brine shrimp.

    The outrageous fantasy undermines everything. Asgard is full of noble black guys in the Thor movies, but Asgard itself is ridiculous as in the comics. Meanwhile no one has made gritty realistic movies since Dirty Harry and the French Connection.

    The best thing we have going for us is that JJ Abrams to choose a name randomly is on the other side.

    , @Rob McX
    @Lurker


    Whites are dumb, weak, criminal, lazy, disabled, gay. Blacks/browns are clever, inventive, loyal, hard working, confident, brave. On and on, day after day, thats whats on the screen.
     
    On and on, that's all there is to it. The message doesn't have to be sophisticated (quite the opposite), just repetitive. Repetition is still the most effective means of persuasion.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  106. “I sure haven’t heard many elites from the ‘super-Dunbar’ pointing that out.”

    Nor will you. I hear that Vox had to lay off a lot of people. Something like half the staff? For Ezzie Klein etal. George Floyd was a godsend.

  107. @Redman
    @Dieter Kief

    Same in the US actually. This is the first incident in my 50 years where the American media threw caution to the wind and decided to convict before the story was in.

    Even with Rodney King (which involved a hidden video 100 times worse than St. Floyd) the media did not jump in this way. Universal emotion seems to hold the whip hand today.

    Replies: @Prester John

    Maximum trolling for maximum $$$s. Sometimes I really wonder whether in their heart of hearts the Vox, Slate and PMSNBC crowd really believe some of the pap that’s fed to the Gullible Great Unwashed.

  108. OT

    Self-appointed Guardian of Conservatism David Brooks demands that the Republican Party adopt the Anti-Sailer Strategy:

    “To have any shot of surviving as a major party, the G.O.P. has to build a cross-racial alliance among working-class whites, working-class Hispanics and some working-class Blacks. None of this works unless Republicans can deracialize their appeal — by which I mean they must stop pandering to the racists in the party and stop presenting themselves and seeing themselves as the party of white people.”

    http://archive.is/iMUO3#selection-1575.210-1601.219

    The rhetorical similarity to Barbara Lerner Spectre is a little too obvious to point out.

  109. @Jack D
    @Jmaie

    I could be wrong but maybe half of the 44M are gals and not guys?

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    How dare you impose cishet standards on them! How do you know the other half identify as female? Clearly you enjoy White, hetero privilege. Shame on you.

  110. @Dave Pinsen

    Has this Dunbar number theory ever been tested? It’s quite popular, but I mostly see it used in an “As everybody knows” sense.
     
    I remember reading that Alexander the Great knew the names of hundreds of his officers and men, and a bit of that was illustrated in Oliver Stone’s movie.

    https://youtu.be/SxKscPYOOBY

    How many characters are there in the Iliad, and other oral epics?

    The Dunbar Number has been mentioned a lot online recently - why?

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Solomon the Fish, @donut

    Joe “Dunbar Number” Rogan likes to bring up the Dunbar Number on his podcasts. Probably why you’re seeing it in greater circulation.

    • Thanks: Dave Pinsen
  111. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri
    @Altai


    It’s actually appalling to watch parents go in on this. Their daughters are engaged in a cry for help and instead the parents push their daughter along her maladaptive coping mechanism, cheering her on as she ruins her life.
     
    I've only witnessed one instance of "transgenderism" such that I can comment on it. In that instance, the parents, I think, initially recognized that the daughter's claim of gender dysphoria was absurd and actually a sign of something else, and so they initially resisted it. Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance to this false diagnosis of what was obviously (to me and to you) "a cry for help" (and this kid certainly had a lot of other stuff she needed help with, but not her gender identity as she was very obviously a "girly girl"). Hobbled by the "logic" of liberalism, over time the parents couldn't produce any cogent resistance to their daughter's insistence that she was the wrong gender, and so the daughter gradually began to get her way. Even worse, driven by the false "logic" of liberalism, the parents gradually began to agree with her, eventually acquiring the aberrant glow of smugly virtuous liberals as their daughter chemically mutilated herself.

    If nothing else, it was an object lesson that ideas have consequences. Other than their liberalism, the parents were fairly normal people. They lived fairly normal lives and, I think, instinctually understood that their daughter's gender dysphoria was hogwash, but they were, in a sense, mugged by their own ideology. They professed to believe all this stuff, and their daughter was essentially daring them to prove it. They did. Bad move. But their first bad move was to profess liberalism in the first place.

    Virtue signalling is all fun and games until someone loses a gender.

    Replies: @HallParvey, @Dieter Kief, @Anonymous

    Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance

    What are examples of language and mental concepts that the parents could have used, had they been aware of them?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Anonymous

    If my kid came to me claiming to be the "wrong gender", I would say "that's f***in stupid, what's the real problem?" and that would be the end of it, or the end of the trans thing but the beginning of whatever the real problem is. Of course, since I'm not a liberal and don't run a liberal household, my kid has no reason to come up with the trans thing in the first place.

    Liberalism involves enormous hypocrisy. The young are not good at hypocrisy, so they naturally challenge their elders either to retract their hypocrisy or to prove their hypocrisy is not hypocritical. Since liberals will not admit to being wrong (hypocritical), they always have to double down to prove they were not hypocritical. Virtue spirals ensue. And disaster.


    What are examples of language and mental concepts that the parents could have used, had they been aware of them?
     
    Truth. Blunt truth.

    The problem began because the parents felt they had to humor an obviously false delusion rather than call it what it is. They probably hoped it would go away by itself, but the their daughter astutely discerned that they had no "liberal ethical" way to oppose her latest outrageous demand, so she kept working it and her parents kept giving ground until she finally owned them (at the cost of her own destruction, but that's a technicality).
  112. @Lurker
    @AnotherDad


    Our visual processing is very powerful–our #1 sensory input. And we simply have not evolved the filter–the skepticism–toward what we see, that we have toward what we hear (or read)
     
    ^This!^

    The simple fact of what we see seems to have the biggest emotional impact. Priss Factor goes into immense detail, the many layers below the surface. But a lot of times its just the bloody obvious, the casting, the simplistic plots and interactions of TV, film, advertising.

    Whites are dumb, weak, criminal, lazy, disabled, gay. Blacks/browns are clever, inventive, loyal, hard working, confident, brave. On and on, day after day, thats whats on the screen.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    Except that this is consistently undermined in real life. Black pro athlete looks awesome. Until he speaks like the ghetto moron he is. St. George Floyd the Holy Racial Redeemed looks like freaked out monster / punk in the full video.

    Then there are the commercial s . Generations of disappointment make everyone discount everything in them. You don’t get seamonkeys like the back of the comic book promised. You get brine shrimp.

    The outrageous fantasy undermines everything. Asgard is full of noble black guys in the Thor movies, but Asgard itself is ridiculous as in the comics. Meanwhile no one has made gritty realistic movies since Dirty Harry and the French Connection.

    The best thing we have going for us is that JJ Abrams to choose a name randomly is on the other side.

  113. In fact, Dunbar has many numbers, account for groups and bands and so on, and the 150 number was initially created to deal with settlements, aka villages, and then extended to social groups. Also, the notion is that this is a flexible average. It is useful as an idea, but I wouldn’t make too much of the 150 number.

  114. @Rob McX
    @AnotherDad


    The fact that she had in a year or two a demographic catastrophe on the order of the US’s “legacy of slavery”, severely trashing the future of every actually German child...
     
    Totally agree with this, but she can't have been a lone crusader for race replacement, as Germany is not a dictatorship. There must be a lot of Merkel's willing executioners, as it were.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    • Thanks: Rob McX
  115. @Lurker
    @AnotherDad


    Our visual processing is very powerful–our #1 sensory input. And we simply have not evolved the filter–the skepticism–toward what we see, that we have toward what we hear (or read)
     
    ^This!^

    The simple fact of what we see seems to have the biggest emotional impact. Priss Factor goes into immense detail, the many layers below the surface. But a lot of times its just the bloody obvious, the casting, the simplistic plots and interactions of TV, film, advertising.

    Whites are dumb, weak, criminal, lazy, disabled, gay. Blacks/browns are clever, inventive, loyal, hard working, confident, brave. On and on, day after day, thats whats on the screen.

    Replies: @Whiskey, @Rob McX

    Whites are dumb, weak, criminal, lazy, disabled, gay. Blacks/browns are clever, inventive, loyal, hard working, confident, brave. On and on, day after day, thats whats on the screen.

    On and on, that’s all there is to it. The message doesn’t have to be sophisticated (quite the opposite), just repetitive. Repetition is still the most effective means of persuasion.

    • Agree: Lurker
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Rob McX


    Repetition is still the most effective means of persuasion.
     
    Have any studies been done the results of which support this?
  116. Yo, Steve, you inserted the wrong link at the end of your post at VDARE–it goes to Mercatus, instead of here.

  117. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rob McX
    @Lurker


    Whites are dumb, weak, criminal, lazy, disabled, gay. Blacks/browns are clever, inventive, loyal, hard working, confident, brave. On and on, day after day, thats whats on the screen.
     
    On and on, that's all there is to it. The message doesn't have to be sophisticated (quite the opposite), just repetitive. Repetition is still the most effective means of persuasion.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Repetition is still the most effective means of persuasion.

    Have any studies been done the results of which support this?

  118. @Lex
    There is a huge ruckus in Poland because that thing on the right https://bi.im-g.pl/im/a5/d9/17/z25007269V,Malgorzata-Szutowicz--z-prawej--oraz-Lania-Madej--.jpg (allegedly female) was arrested(already released) for attacking a pro-life guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwn_ZoZlNaE

    Guy who dresses like guy is a female LGBT activist. It reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgcLfohtFbE - possibly the best comedy skit ever.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Lex, you are absolutely right. That (2nd) video IS possibly the best comedy skit ever. Thanks!

  119. @Anonymous


    Or, perhaps, the opposite has happened as well: elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.
     
    Anyone who wishes to know whether journalists can take a joke need only look at the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites. Do not even dream of criticising these people, because they have no sense of humour at all, let alone the capacity for self-reflection.

    Modern-day "journalism" is a "conversation" in which reporters tell the masses exactly what they should be thinking - or else. All the excitement over the interactive nature of the online world went away the moment it became clear that the Great Unwashed might derive a great deal of pleasure from the discomfiture of political hacks being called out as political hacks rather than being deferred to as the journalists they so fondly imagine themselves to be.

    Criticism, dissent, and (heaven forfend) mockery are, clearly, holdover institutions of White Privilege (boo!), so just nod your head, mouth the officially-approved platitudes, and put another BLM sign in the window, you racist lout!

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @dvorak

    I’ve seen it, #387, right here on unz, for that matter, though not to an extreme degree. The writers who can’t take even constructive criticism well are:

    Paul Craig Roberts
    Fred Reed
    Ilana Mercer
    Ron Unz:

    Yeah, you remarked that 95% of the comments under your latest, massive 1,300+ thread were “hostile”. First of all, only about 2/3 to 3/4 of them didn’t agree with your main point, even though plenty of those very same ones added that they appreciated your writing in general and your attitude about free speech. Of all the comments, only a handful were hostile in the sense of “telling you off” or using derogatory language.

    I got only about 40% through the comments, and could spend 3 enjoyable hours or so finishing. You had some great commenters. Maybe at the end, you’d get your un-ending arguments among a few pairs or groups of commenters that want to get the last word in. There ends up being plenty of off-topic discussion on some of these threads, but one can see that right away and skip. However, to me, it was a great discussion. I don’t know why a writer can’t just sit back for a 1/2 day, read through them, and just refrain from writing back to any that you don’t have a ready answer for, as you will otherwise waste your life on this, honestly. (I mean, you with the 1,300 comment threads).

    At least there was no talk of the commenters mostly being deranged this time. I don’t think that says much for your site, but it isn’t true anyway. That is, from the writers I read, not the Commies or the particular thread on the Lunar landing hoax (you’re bound to see some derangement under a post about faking the Apollo program).

  120. @Lot
    “ threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa“

    Really? I can’t think if any 5+ dead attacks by antifa, and a fair number by the “far right.”

    It probably will happen fairly soon. Their ability to loot stores and smash the property of their enemies with impunity will attract the deranged even more than normal. They were a really small thing mostly limited to the NW, NY, and a few college towns not too long ago.

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    Replies: @fnn, @Genrick Yagoda, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Almost Missouri, @sayless

    A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face …

    They’re bound to be a lot more misshapen and asymmetrical if they don’t back off at some point. (Not a threat of any kind, just a prognostication.)

  121. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Hit "Troll" on my phone by mistake. Oh my George.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Adam Smith, @HammerJack

    No, you had it right the first time.

    • Troll: The Anti-Gnostic
  122. “the analyst’s job is simply to discover a cause commensurate with its enormity.” Fuck that wake up Whitey let your murderous rage guide you .

  123. I’ve known about 150 people in my long, politically painful lifetime, including half the number who showed up to my wedding.

    I can still keep my facts straight.

    The Dunbar # must be a phenomenon of interference, i.e. one’s average rate of personal interactions.

  124. @Anonymous


    Or, perhaps, the opposite has happened as well: elites in the “super-Dunbar” got exposed to criticism when they went on Twitter, and thus went crazy. For example, the insanity in the mainstream media of the last 4 years about the threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa) may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.
     
    Anyone who wishes to know whether journalists can take a joke need only look at the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites. Do not even dream of criticising these people, because they have no sense of humour at all, let alone the capacity for self-reflection.

    Modern-day "journalism" is a "conversation" in which reporters tell the masses exactly what they should be thinking - or else. All the excitement over the interactive nature of the online world went away the moment it became clear that the Great Unwashed might derive a great deal of pleasure from the discomfiture of political hacks being called out as political hacks rather than being deferred to as the journalists they so fondly imagine themselves to be.

    Criticism, dissent, and (heaven forfend) mockery are, clearly, holdover institutions of White Privilege (boo!), so just nod your head, mouth the officially-approved platitudes, and put another BLM sign in the window, you racist lout!

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Achmed E. Newman, @dvorak

    the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites

    Yahoo! Finance (Verizon-owned) is taking stock of its comments section, currently. Probably this hiatus will run through Election Day.

  125. Cell phones and computers have radically reduced the need for Mnemonics in daily life. I just need one decent master password and I can access all others. Even Joe Biden can function in today’s world.

  126. If you’re trying to think seriously and not just signalling, remember it’s actually Dunbar circles.
    Typically the numbers go 5, 15, 50, 150, 500. Each circle is more human than the last, but 150 is the largest you can go before you start treating them like NPCs. Also, don’t forget going all the way to 150 stresses the system. Humans ‘groom’ using conversation, and maintaining all 150 slots takes approximately 42% of your waking hours, leaving only 58% for eating, working, etc.

    It has never directly been tested in humans; you can tell because it’s almost certainly not exactly 150. However, it’s not going to be wildly different. Humans are not far off the trend line for heart rate vs. body weight either.

    There’s lots of indirect evidence.

    According to Dunbar and many researchers he influenced, this rule of 150 remains true for early hunter-gatherer societies as well as a surprising array of modern groupings: offices, communes, factories, residential campsites, military organisations, 11th Century English villages, even Christmas card lists. Exceed 150, and a network is unlikely to last long or cohere well.

    If someone looked, they would find a lot of non-discussed individual variation. Probably mainly on IQ, say a 0.4 correlation, something like that. 150 is only the number for IQ 100.

    Asperger’s gives me an advantage, ironically enough. I’m missing the relationship-decay circuit. I don’t care at all how often or how much you talk to me; the relationship pauses when we part and resumes when we meet again, end of story. Though unfortunately this means (lacking intentional effort) I am oblivious to others’ need to talk regularly to maintain a relationship.

  127. @Altai
    And on the topic of social media infecting the whole world with idiosyncratic American social taboos. Look at his face.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1292383414482477058

    'N******' isn't a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain. You don't go around saying the word, but in the context of reporting the word used by another in service of an anti-racist media agenda, I can't imagine somebody being genuinely offended like they would almost be obliged to in the US.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53708991
    BBC DJ Sideman quits over the corporation's decision to broadcast the n-word

    The 1Xtra star, whose real name is David Whitely, has announced he will leave the station after the BBC declined to say sorry for a reporter's uncensored use of a racial slur during a news broadcast in July. The BBC says the word was “editorially justified given the context”, and was quoted in full at the request of the family of a victim of a racist attack.
     
    South Africa too has embraced the American notion of the 'N word' and uses the 'K word' (SA has embraced a lot of American CRT stuff) to refer to the word 'Kaffir' which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus. It's silly and weird and I can't find a comparable example elsewhere. The difference between using a slur and referring to a slur seems clear for every other kind of ethnic slur.

    Replies: @Altai, @Jmaie, @dearieme, @Kratoklastes, @syonredux

    Although the ‘K-word’ is a Yanklish import – part of the McDonald’s-ification of acceptable language – Kaffir has been a pejorative in Sarth Effrika since the mid-1900s (prior to that it was almost neutral).

    It won’t be long before we’ll have to re-write the most important recipe in the world (Beef Rendang) to remove references to Kaffir Lime (only the leaves in most recipes; microplaned rind in the best recipes). It gets called ‘Thai Lime’ in Sarth Effrika now – which is stupid because while Thai cooking uses the leaves and rind of Kaffir limes, it also uses quite a bit of fresh ‘normal’ lime (Persian lime), and Kaffir limes would be terrible.

    Kaffir is not a pejorative to Sri Lankan Kaffirs; they’ll obviously have to be renamed for fear that someone, somewhere, takes offense.

    The best bet is that the person who takes offense will be a white woman with pudgy arms, abundant backfat, and a large student debt accrued while studying nonsense.

  128. Jorge Videla [AKA "it\'s the stupidity stupid."] says:

    1. the public didn’t experience a “digital murder” or any other kind of murder.

    2. 150. Roughly speaking, that is how many persons you can remember before names, faces, and situations begin to get fuzzy.

    this is obviously FALSE or the author explained it wrong.

  129. @Almost Missouri
    @Buzz Mohawk

    This is a really excellent joke. Not only is it very funny, it is very true. And it very succinctly points out the folly of accepting this very poor replacement for real religion, and implicitly points out how many people (especially the young women so prevalent at Floyd protests) can't function meaningfully without the structure of a religion, whether a real one or a fake one.

    Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard, @Alexander Turok

    I also thought it was funny, but through the lens of criticism of both religion and Hurricane Floyd. I guess there are four ways of interpreting this:

    1. “The comparison is farcical, religion is bad, but the Floyd movement is great!” – Mainstream liberals.

    2. “The comparison is apt, George Floyd is like Jesus, and that’s great!” – Left-wing Christians like this guy:

    3. “The comparison is farcical, the Floyd movement is a pale imitation of true religion.”

    4. “The comparison is apt, religion and the Floyd movement both tap into human tendencies toward irrationality and self-deception.”

    For me in group 4, I understand the argument that we should support religion as a bulwark against irrationalism. It’s the same class of arguments as “teenagers are always gonna use some drugs, we should support the use of drug X, as a bulwark against the others.” I don’t think you should reject it in all cases, but it needs a lot of evidence to convince me to give up on my instinct, which is to say, ‘get rid of all of it.’ And I don’t think that evidence is there. The churches are simply not doing it:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/mit-catholic-chaplain-canceled-for-not-worshipping-st-george-floyd-fervently-enough/

    My grandpa used to say that religion is a solution in search of a problem. You see this over and over. Jesus is the antidote to racism, say left-wing Christians. Jesus is the antidote to Leftism, say right-wing Christians. Every problem more significant than a kid being unable to get past that level on Mario, someone somewhere will hold up that Bible, Torah, Koran, whatever it is, and say, “here lies the answer.” It’s like that scene in the Simpsons, Jesus is cited as the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.

    As to the young women argument, if some fraction of young women needs some kind of irrationalism, why should we care? How about saying “let’s just not listen to them?” The SJWs, they believe inherently in this kind of argument: “oh, your group is 95% male, that’s very bad, you need to reform yourself to have more Diversity, even at the principles your group formed to advance in the first place.” That kind of argument doesn’t resonate with me. If they aren’t gonna listen to rational arguments, well, let the SJWs and the preachers fight over them. If they don’t listen to us now, then we won’t be affected by us throwing our weight to one side. In a situation of electoral politics, you can tell the preacher “okay, you rile up your followers and we’ll rile up ours so that common candidate X can win.” But you don’t join the preacher in the pews.

  130. If Kling is right, then how long before we hear libtards arguing the Internet was a Russian plot all along, and Trump was groomed for president from the 1980s to destroy socialist America?

  131. @Daniel H
    OT: Data points.

    Three more trannies pop up in the mugshots of the overnight arrestees out in that Portland shindig.


    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1292422576531107840?s=20

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1292412657148891136?s=20

    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1292415077027471361?s=20

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    What a bunch of Dementos.

    Andy Ngo is doing the Lord’s work in Portland. I hope he stays safe. Antifa has already beaten him up once.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  132. @Peter Johnson
    Is there a gender bias (favoring women) in the Dunbar number? Anecdotally, my wife for example must be up to 300+ whereas I would struggle to hit 150. I think that such a gender bias could be common. That might also feed into the gender-related difference in reactions to the Floyd incident.

    Replies: @bomag, @Neoconned, @anonymous 389, @Ben tillman

    My Dunbar number probably wouldn’t exceed 50 ppl. If that….

    Anyway i think this is more a case of playing hot potato. Blm basically threw a flaming hot piece of ash into the bare hands of the elites. Rather than put the fire out they tossed the ember….hence the dumpster fire…our elites are lazy….and debauched….

  133. @HallParvey
    @Dieter Kief

    Luke 15:7



    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”
     
    This is one of those things, in the Bible, that leaves us to wonder if the sage got it right.

    If, as is indicated, joy in heaven is much, much greater when "one sinner repenteth" than over ninety and nine who have not sinned, and therefore have no need for repentence, then to increase the joy in heaven, people should go out and sin up a storm. Then repent. Then sin, again and again. Then repent again and again.

    Perhaps this is where the need for regular confession comes from. If you haven't sinned, you really have nothing to confess. Unless you are lying about sinning in the confessional, which I suppose is a sin, which could qualify. If joy in heaven is dependent on repentance, then sin is an absolute necessity.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Your argument unfolds quite logically- and that’s why it doesn’t quite reach what is intended with Luke 15:7.

    Speaking metaphorically now – since the Bible is no discoursive book – : – I’d say it is rather a pastiche of hearsay, thoughts, and scriptures.

    It’s about attacks from neighbors and or foreigners; droughts, floods, thunder and lightning, fires, famines, losing home. Plus – rage, greed, sin, and self-aggrandizing, and wrong admonition, murder, lust, pride, vanity, desperation, fear, insanity. Disobedience. The worshipping of deceptive Gods, the experience of the attractiveness of various devils, and being blinded (overwhelmed) by false prospects and aims. And wonders too, Angel’s release, relief, hope, joy, God.
    So – logic is the right way to understand the Bible as soon as one applies a stochastic logic – or a rather informal or a patchwork one.
    Seen from another perspective (there are in innumerous many of those) the logic of the Bible might be deciphered with the method of –  Jackson Pollock or Caspar David Friedrich.
     If one approaches Friedrich’s Sailboats at a Harbour in the Evening,

    https://www.kunst-gemalde.com/Boote-im-Hafen-am-Abend-romantische-Caspar-David-Friedrich.html  

     You – all of a sudden – when being close enough, see the sailboats disappear in incredibly plausible brush-strokes and structures – the same is true for Jackson Pollock’s paintings. But here, it works the other way round- if you go further away from them, the chaos melts into meaning (depending again on the perspective, but also on the viewer’s mood, the time of day, the year, the decade, etc. – Pollock is quite close to how the Bible came into being – the texts are a wild mixture of all kinds of stories/legends/words/visions/…

    The late Leonard Cohen laughs about the idea, that the Holy Bible well – You Don’t Know Me from the Wind/ You Never Will  You Never Sinned/  I’m just the little Jew who wrote the Bible

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WlbQRoz3o4  

    – Then Cohen intonates the next line or two – mimicking (very gently though) – – – – Bob Dylan…
    Oh and Cohen has a refrain in this song The Future and it goes like this: When they say repentI wonder what they meant… – and I think he’s right. Leonard Cohen is right in pointing out that you (always) need to wonder what it means to repent. Otherwise you – like so many others – won’t find out. 

    PS

    What people really did or do while they repent – is part of our (as a whole) unpenetrable collective journey through – – – space and time (and being….). It needs to be practiced even though it can never be completely understood.

    • Replies: @Alrenous
    @Dieter Kief

    I am sometimes capable of writing a sentence which is both discursively logical and what we're apparently calling stochastically logical. I would expect the God of Creation to be more capable than I am, rather than less; capable of consistently writing such sentences.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  134. @Anon
    Most SJWs have a personality disorder, and they don't deal well with the internet. The interesting thing is, the rioters are the ones who grew up with the internet. Even though they've had years to learn how to handle it and set emotional barriers between it and themselves, they can't. Everything that happens on the net is personal to them. They internalize someone else's outrage, and launch attacks on perfect strangers because of this. Trying to get people fired, or physically attacking them for their opinions, or trying to blind a stranger with lasers because you don't like their politics, is crazy stuff.

    A case in point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGZpo5s6voI&feature=emb_logo

    Replies: @Bert, @Rob McX, @Neoconned

    What’s the background on this nazi suit girl?

  135. WOW , what a lot of BS . Man is not a rational animal .

  136. ” The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis,”

    The terrible events would seem to be the fraud perpetrated by the usual media whores.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
  137. @Bob Laughlin
    https://twitter.com/DrIbram/status/1292156817024327681

    U.S. Cities with the Highest 2020 Violent Crime Rates (2010 Census Percentage of Black Residents)
    1. Detroit (82.7%)
    2. Memphis (63.3%)
    3. Birmingham, AL (73.4%)
    4. Baltimore (63.7%)
    5. Flint (56.6%)

    Facts are stubborn things.

    Replies: @anon

    Kinda odd how Kendi has apparently never seen WorldStarHipHop, isn’t it?

  138. @Altai
    And on the topic of social media infecting the whole world with idiosyncratic American social taboos. Look at his face.

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1292383414482477058

    'N******' isn't a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain. You don't go around saying the word, but in the context of reporting the word used by another in service of an anti-racist media agenda, I can't imagine somebody being genuinely offended like they would almost be obliged to in the US.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53708991
    BBC DJ Sideman quits over the corporation's decision to broadcast the n-word

    The 1Xtra star, whose real name is David Whitely, has announced he will leave the station after the BBC declined to say sorry for a reporter's uncensored use of a racial slur during a news broadcast in July. The BBC says the word was “editorially justified given the context”, and was quoted in full at the request of the family of a victim of a racist attack.
     
    South Africa too has embraced the American notion of the 'N word' and uses the 'K word' (SA has embraced a lot of American CRT stuff) to refer to the word 'Kaffir' which somehow became a slur used by Afrikaners to refer to Bantus. It's silly and weird and I can't find a comparable example elsewhere. The difference between using a slur and referring to a slur seems clear for every other kind of ethnic slur.

    Replies: @Altai, @Jmaie, @dearieme, @Kratoklastes, @syonredux

    ‘N******’ isn’t a slur that has any historical weight or serious historical usage in Britain.

    Dunno about that. It’s been used in the UK for a very long time:

    1811 Ld. Byron in Mem. F. Hodgson (1878) I. 195 The rest of the world—ni[*****] and what not.

    a1849 H. Coleridge Ess. & Marginalia (1851) I. 164 A similar error has turned Othello..into a rank woolly-pated, thick-lipped ni[****]

    D. L. Sayers Five Red Herrings i. 11 Waters,..like all Englishmen, was ready enough to admire and praise all foreigners except dagoes and ni[*****]

    G. Greene Heart of Matter i. i. 3 I hate the place. I hate the people. I hate the bloody ni[*****]. Mustn’t call ’em that you know.

    https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/126934

    Thomas Carlyle’s “Occasional Discourse on the Negro Question” was reprinted with the alternate title, “Occasional Discourse on the Ni[****] Question”

    https://cruel.org/econthought/texts/carlyle/odnqbk.html

  139. @Dieter Kief
    @HallParvey

    Your argument unfolds quite logically- and that's why it doesn't quite reach what is intended with Luke 15:7.


    Speaking metaphorically now - since the Bible is no discoursive book - : - I'd say it is rather a pastiche of hearsay, thoughts, and scriptures.

    It's about attacks from neighbors and or foreigners; droughts, floods, thunder and lightning, fires, famines, losing home. Plus - rage, greed, sin, and self-aggrandizing, and wrong admonition, murder, lust, pride, vanity, desperation, fear, insanity. Disobedience. The worshipping of deceptive Gods, the experience of the attractiveness of various devils, and being blinded (overwhelmed) by false prospects and aims. And wonders too, Angel's release, relief, hope, joy, God.
    So - logic is the right way to understand the Bible as soon as one applies a stochastic logic - or a rather informal or a patchwork one.
    Seen from another perspective (there are in innumerous many of those) the logic of the Bible might be deciphered with the method of -  Jackson Pollock or Caspar David Friedrich.
     If one approaches Friedrich's Sailboats at a Harbour in the Evening,

    https://www.kunst-gemalde.com/Boote-im-Hafen-am-Abend-romantische-Caspar-David-Friedrich.html  

     You - all of a sudden - when being close enough, see the sailboats disappear in incredibly plausible brush-strokes and structures - the same is true for Jackson Pollock's paintings. But here, it works the other way round- if you go further away from them, the chaos melts into meaning (depending again on the perspective, but also on the viewer's mood, the time of day, the year, the decade, etc. - Pollock is quite close to how the Bible came into being - the texts are a wild mixture of all kinds of stories/legends/words/visions/...

    The late Leonard Cohen laughs about the idea, that the Holy Bible well - You Don't Know Me from the Wind/ You Never Will  You Never Sinned/  I'm just the little Jew who wrote the Bible

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WlbQRoz3o4  

    - Then Cohen intonates the next line or two - mimicking (very gently though) - - - - Bob Dylan...
    Oh and Cohen has a refrain in this song The Future and it goes like this: When they say repent - I wonder what they meant... - and I think he's right. Leonard Cohen is right in pointing out that you (always) need to wonder what it means to repent. Otherwise you - like so many others - won't find out. 

    PS

    What people really did or do while they repent - is part of our (as a whole) unpenetrable collective journey through - - - space and time (and being....). It needs to be practiced even though it can never be completely understood.

    Replies: @Alrenous

    I am sometimes capable of writing a sentence which is both discursively logical and what we’re apparently calling stochastically logical. I would expect the God of Creation to be more capable than I am, rather than less; capable of consistently writing such sentences.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Alrenous

    Religion is the answer to existential questions and these are of a different kind than logical or mathematical ones. The real questions, Wittgenstein once remarked, arise after you have trespassed the realm of logic, mathematics, reason and the like.

    If you don't like Ludwig Wittgenstein, you might try Immanuel Kant: He did write his three Critiques not to get rid of religion, but to make room for it.

    PS

    It makes no sense to reason with God because we can't know, what he would say (how he would argue).

    PPS

    God is no logical but an ethical and - via the services etc. - a practical solution. Sociologist Emile Durkheim was maybe the first to analyze religion in this way.

    PPPS

    It is no coincidence, that Christianity and Buddhism especially did co-evolve with Religion after people started settled down and build stable villages and - cities. - cf Jürgen Habermas: This Too a History of Philosophy (2019) and - shorter, but very concise already: Post Metaphysical Thinking II (German 2012); and Religion and Rationality; Essays on Reason, God, and Modernity 1998).

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  140. @Altai
    @Altai

    Here is his statement.

    https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1292177890423996416

    What's the word some have used? 'Black megalomania', this dude has never had a moment of introspection or self-doubt in his life of his own greatness, hence his response by resigning, how will the BBC ever recover.

    And again, there is no 'N word' taboo in Britain, it's a slur and you don't use it, but the idea that the BBC broke an understood social taboo here is insane. It is understood as an American taboo to say 'the N word' when referring to it in a clinical fashion to report it's use. It would look silly.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @syonredux

    And again, there is no ‘N word’ taboo in Britain, it’s a slur and you don’t use it, but the idea that the BBC broke an understood social taboo here is insane.

    But there is now. That’s how things work. Back in the ’70s in the US, lit profs would openly refer to Conrad’s eponymous Ni[****] of the ‘Narcissus’ without recourse to circumlocutions. Try doing that now, and you’ll be up before the board….

    And, of course, we are experiencing a moment of “peak Blackness,” and things are moving very fast. “Progressive” shows from the early 2000s are being censored. 30 Rock, for example, has had episodes pulled from re-runs:

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/entertainment/30-rock-episodes-blackface-trnd/index.html

  141. @Known Fact
    Great comments, a really absorbing discussion here even if it's not exactly news that social media has had some grave unintended consequences. I'll point once again to the 1963 Outer Limits episode in which the aliens plot to conquer Earth simply by giving us the technology to demoralize ourselves and tear our own society apart -- irresistably addictive technology that lets us spy and pry into each others' lives.

    http://mylifeintheglowoftheouterlimits.blogspot.com/2013/11/episode-spotlight-obit-11041963.html

    Replies: @Anonymous

    the aliens plot to conquer Earth simply by giving us the technology to demoralize ourselves

    What does it mean exactly to “demoralize” someone, in this sense. And what is the effect of it?

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Anonymous

    It means we'd be too isolated, depressed, dispirited and at odds with each other to mount a defense or even try. It's sometimes asked if the America of today could mount a united effort against some attack like Americans so resoundingly did in WWII -- or are we too self-centered and divided?

    One character in O.B.I.T. laments that "no one can laugh, or joke -- it watches." Which is where cancel culture seems to be headed, in large part due to our social media. It's demoralizing when you can't freely speak the truth.

  142. Anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    The second episode of the Serial/New York Times podcast “Nice White Parents” dropped, and there have been enough interviews so far on it for me to declare that they misnamed it: It should be “Nice Jewish Parents.” So far there’s been one Quaker guy, and all the rest, going by stereotypical dialect and accent judgment, are New York Jews.

    So far the longest interview was with a women, by my calculation 94 years old now, who toured the profiled middle school in 1963, all black and Puerto Rican, and said the classrooms and hallways were “chaotic,” and the reading scores were low, so she decided not to offer up her daughter as a sacrificial lamb after having initially supported the school. (Her friend’s kid went there and turned out O.K., however.)

    The reporter mentioned that the school was two grade levels behind at the time. Since test results of two-and-a-half grade levels approximately equals test results of one IQ standard deviation of 15 points, that would be about right for a black and Puerto Rican school, then and now. Since the school was newly built and had mostly white teachers, the problem could only have been the kids, you’d think. The reporter thought that the problem was the kids’ “preparation” further back in the pipeline, combined with the lack of magical white kids sitting next to them. Given a shiney new physical plant and qualified teachers, what else could white kids offer but magic?

  143. ‘Each of us carries along, in our everyday activities, a band of 150 people whom we can identify with fair accuracy…’

    I s’spicions this is bullshit…and I have reason for my assertion.

    I was a high school teacher. As such, I had around 120 students — each of whom each year I came to be able to immediately identify as ‘one of my students.’

    So did I suddenly find the total number of others I could identify falling from 150 to 30?

    No. I still recognized my girlfriend of the moment, my friends, fellow teachers, the extended family I got together with at Thanksgiving, the regulars in my drawing group, the dude in the liquor store, my neighbors…

    Say — at random — school aside, there were 89 people I could readily identify. Did adding 12o to that number result in a figure exceeding 150?

    Most certainly. Did this cause me to suddenly have difficulty recognizing the host of my drawing group?

    No — of course not. The ‘Dunbar number’ may exist — but it’s certainly not 150.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Colin Wright

    I think this thread, and perhaps that article, has suffered from a misunderstanding of the Dunbar number. I take it to mean not the number of people you can identify but the number of people whose life activities and social networks you can keep track of. It may be a constraint imposed less by cognitive capacity/evolution than by the structure of reality, like time in a day, etc.

  144. In the 1951 British book The Dam Busters by Paul Brickhill, based on the real-life 1943 bombing of German dams, the RAF commander’s black dog was named, well, you know. That in fact actually had been its name. By the time the movie version came out just four years later in 1955 that was no longer acceptable and the dog’s name was Trigger.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @prosa123


    In the 1951 British book The Dam Busters by Paul Brickhill, based on the real-life 1943 bombing of German dams, the RAF commander’s black dog was named, well, you know. That in fact actually had been its name. By the time the movie version came out just four years later in 1955 that was no longer acceptable and the dog’s name was Trigger.
     
    In the original release, the dog's actual name was used. Later on....

    During World War II there was a dog called Ni[***]r, a black Labrador belonging to Royal Air Force Wing Commander Guy Gibson,[21] and the mascot of No. 617 Squadron. Gibson owned the dog when he was previously a member of 106 Squadron. Ni[****] often accompanied Gibson on training flights and was a great favourite of the members of both 106 and 617 Squadrons. He was noted for his liking of beer, which he drank from his own bowl in the Officers' Mess.[22]
     

    Ni[****] died on 16 May 1943, the day of the "Dam Busters" raid, when he was hit by a car. He was buried at midnight as Gibson was leading the raid. The dog's name was used as a single codeword whose transmission conveyed that the Möhne Dam had been breached. In the film, the dog was portrayed in several scenes; his name and the codeword were mentioned several times. Some of the these scenes were sampled in the film Pink Floyd – The Wall (1982).[23]
     

    In 1999, British television network ITV broadcast a censored version of the film, removing all utterances of "Ni[***]r". ITV blamed regional broadcaster London Weekend Television, which in turn alleged that a junior staff member had been responsible for the unauthorised cuts. When ITV again showed a censored version in June 2001, it was condemned by the Index on Censorship as "unnecessary and ridiculous" and because the edits introduced continuity errors.[24] The British Channel 4 screened the censored version in July 2007, in which the dialogue was dubbed so as to call the dog "Trigger", this screening took place just after the planned remake was announced. In September 2007, as part of the BBC Summer of British Film series, The Dam Busters was shown at selected cinemas across the UK in its uncut format. The original, uncensored, version was also shown on 1 and 5 January 2013, by Channel 5. It was the version, distributed by StudioCanal, containing shots of the bomber flying into a hill.

     

    Replies: @Rob McX

  145. @Kyle
    I don’t understand the parameters of the Dunbar number. I know more than 150 people. I know their faces, their names, theirs spouses, children, pets names. Does the Dunbar number have to do with how many newly introduced faces and names you can memorize in one day? I need more info on what this Dunbar number actually denotes.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Kyle, I am confused too. When I was in HS I was active in a few clubs, sports and a frat. I probably knew half the school by name. When I went to college by my senior year I probably knew most of the Senior and Junior classes as again I was very active in a couple of organizations, a frat, class officer and on the student council. I also was an Apprentice Ironworker and met dozens of guys on jobs. I didn’t forget the guys from HS, family, the neighborhood and added hundreds in college. So 150 seems way low.

  146. @prosa123
    In the 1951 British book The Dam Busters by Paul Brickhill, based on the real-life 1943 bombing of German dams, the RAF commander's black dog was named, well, you know. That in fact actually had been its name. By the time the movie version came out just four years later in 1955 that was no longer acceptable and the dog's name was Trigger.

    Replies: @syonredux

    In the 1951 British book The Dam Busters by Paul Brickhill, based on the real-life 1943 bombing of German dams, the RAF commander’s black dog was named, well, you know. That in fact actually had been its name. By the time the movie version came out just four years later in 1955 that was no longer acceptable and the dog’s name was Trigger.

    In the original release, the dog’s actual name was used. Later on….

    During World War II there was a dog called Ni[***]r, a black Labrador belonging to Royal Air Force Wing Commander Guy Gibson,[21] and the mascot of No. 617 Squadron. Gibson owned the dog when he was previously a member of 106 Squadron. Ni[****] often accompanied Gibson on training flights and was a great favourite of the members of both 106 and 617 Squadrons. He was noted for his liking of beer, which he drank from his own bowl in the Officers’ Mess.[22]

    Ni[****] died on 16 May 1943, the day of the “Dam Busters” raid, when he was hit by a car. He was buried at midnight as Gibson was leading the raid. The dog’s name was used as a single codeword whose transmission conveyed that the Möhne Dam had been breached. In the film, the dog was portrayed in several scenes; his name and the codeword were mentioned several times. Some of the these scenes were sampled in the film Pink Floyd – The Wall (1982).[23]

    In 1999, British television network ITV broadcast a censored version of the film, removing all utterances of “Ni[***]r”. ITV blamed regional broadcaster London Weekend Television, which in turn alleged that a junior staff member had been responsible for the unauthorised cuts. When ITV again showed a censored version in June 2001, it was condemned by the Index on Censorship as “unnecessary and ridiculous” and because the edits introduced continuity errors.[24] The British Channel 4 screened the censored version in July 2007, in which the dialogue was dubbed so as to call the dog “Trigger”, this screening took place just after the planned remake was announced. In September 2007, as part of the BBC Summer of British Film series, The Dam Busters was shown at selected cinemas across the UK in its uncut format. The original, uncensored, version was also shown on 1 and 5 January 2013, by Channel 5. It was the version, distributed by StudioCanal, containing shots of the bomber flying into a hill.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @syonredux

    The poor dog will never rest in peace. He was buried at a Royal Air Force station in Lincolnshire after dying in a road accident 1943. But last month the RAF replaced his headstone bearing his name, saying it "did not want to give prominence to an offensive term that went against its ethos".

  147. @Anonymous
    @AnotherDad

    Up until the World Wars, in the US cities and towns were run by women's clubs. The clubs ensured the quiet environment for marriage and children that the women needed. It also ensured that anybody the women disliked ran onto severe trouble -- men who hit their wives, women who violated the moral/sexual code, men who wouldn't marry their pregnant girlfriends, and so on. Plus giving relief to people they thought worthwhile but unlucky. The women's clubs included (of course) the wives of just about every economically important person in town, and were thus adequately funded and had adequate informal enforcement available. https://www.britannica.com/event/club-movement
    They did a fairly good job of running the towns from the women's standpoint, a much better job than the men could have done. Typically the men simply couldn't perceive what was obvious to the women. OTH, when the subject shifted from immediate environment to more abstract subjects such as Prohibition, the clubs didn't do very well. I think the classic men's objection was "I don't have any objection nice ladies, but they're trying to make me one".
    Eventually the whole women's club phenomenon was destroyed by the bureaucratization of "social work", which is government paid, funded, and controlled.

    But here's a parody of a women's club that is strongly recognizable today:

    https://youtu.be/rkY09GQoJGo

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    ThreeThreeNine, yes there were women’s cluns but I doubt they had any political or financial clout. The organizations with clout were for men such as Masons, Rotary, Kiwanis,Odd Fellows, Knights of Columbus and Moose etc. Need a job? Need a loan? Need a reference? These were the people who facilitated that.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Buffalo Joe


    ThreeThreeNine, yes there were women’s clubs but I doubt they had any political or financial clout.
     
    They got Prohibition passed by 46 states, without the vote in more than half of them.

    That's clout. Clout and a half.

  148. “Look, there are 20,000,000 black guys in America. That’s a huge number. There is always one of that 20,000,000 doing something knuckleheaded and winding up dead. You can’t let yourself go insane over some drugged-up bouncer in Minnesota. We may feel emotionally like we live in a tribe of 150, but we don’t. It’s actually a huge country, so restrain your out-of-control emotions and think sensibly. It’s just the power of The Megaphone to make you believe that George Floyd or Emmett Till is representative. Don’t fall for the statistically nonsensical Narrative.”

    Perfect, except for “knuckleheaded,” which suggest a sort of harmless, innocent stupidity – something to laugh about.

    The truth about George Floyd is quite a bit worse than that, and is nothing to laugh about.

    But I can’t think of the right word.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    @vinteuil


    But I can’t think of the right word.
     
    Sure you can. Go into a closet. Whisper it. Say it out loud. Make sure nobody can hear you.

    How do you feel. Guilty?

    That's the power of the mind control used by the PTB for the last eighty years. Nobody can hear you say the magic word, yet you feel guilty.

    Do this over and over until you no longer feel guilty. Your conditioned reflex will have been erased.

    Just be careful not to say it out loud where anyone can hear you. My conditioned reflex tells me that would result in problems for you.
  149. Has anybody ever seen the movie “Stars and Bars” with Daniel Day Louis ?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @donut

    I read the book by William Boyd, but don't remember much about it other than the secret of how the rich old man made his money.

    , @donut
    @donut

    It's just amusing , but early D D Lewis . And interesting for all the people who became stars later or not . And "Freeborn" would be a great name for an American child .

    Replies: @Ben tillman

  150. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    @Anonymous


    Anyone who wishes to know whether journalists can take a joke need only look at the heavily censored (or outright banished) comment sections of mainstream news websites. Do not even dream of criticising these people, because they have no sense of humour at all, let alone the capacity for self-reflection.

    Modern-day “journalism” is a “conversation” in which reporters tell the masses exactly what they should be thinking – or else.
     
    Or look at how fast journalist moved to shut down the caustic "Learn to Code" meme that was directed at laid-off journalists.

    The media came to hate the internet for permitting their version of "The News" to be challenged. That's why media outlets are increasingly shutting down comment sections or making it more difficult to post un-PC opinions online.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The media came to hate the internet for permitting their version of “The News” to be challenged. That’s why media outlets are increasingly shutting down comment sections or making it more difficult to post un-PC opinions online.

    One of my favourite MSM “suggestions” of recent years was that of requiring news websites to be licensed by the government. No doubt these theoretical licenses would be administered with the able assistance of the ADL (or some other anti-crimethink organisation).

    I think it may have taken as long as two seconds for people to start slagging it off as a crap idea.

    Can’t you just see Ron Unz applying for one of these rarely-granted licenses and being told that his application was “under active review,” they were working very hard on rushing his license to to him, and that he could expect to receive it in the post “any day now, honest.”

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  151. @Dieter Kief
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    This remark of yours has not only a sarcastic side to it. It runs deeper in my eyes. Death is where normally religion kicks in - because death hints at questions that in an everyday context can't be answered but are there nonetheless.

    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has - - - - - found God.

    Add to that, that in the Christian religion, the converted sinner is ranking morally quite high.

    Luke 15:7

    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

    Replies: @reactionry, @HallParvey, @Crawfurdmuir, @Charlotte

    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has – – – – – found God.

    Jailhouse conversions are a well known phenomenon, so one may be permitted to entertain some scepticism about their genuineness.

    Would someone who had “found God” feel a need to be high on fentanyl and meth, as Floyd was? Would he pass counterfeit banknotes minutes before his fatal encounter with the police? His conduct at the hour of his death was not that of someone in a state of grace.

    • Replies: @Cato
    @Crawfurdmuir

    Saint George died from a fentanyl overdose: https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911

    , @Dieter Kief
    @Crawfurdmuir


    Would someone who had “found God” feel a need to be high on fentanyl and meth, as Floyd was? Would he pass counterfeit banknotes minutes before his fatal encounter with the police? His conduct at the hour of his death was not that of someone in a state of grace.
     
    You're right about this aspect of the story. I have written in earlier posts, that this might have added quite a bit to George Floyd's stress and might have a) motivated him to somehow get out of this unpleasant situation (even though it was impossible) and b) - he might have been well aware that his newly developed public (!) image as a lost son, who had found his way back to God - - - might sour in the process... People awaiting such emotional and personal frustration are in an enormously stressful mood. - Add to that his physical condition and the drugs in his blood and the ambulance which for long minutes couldn't find its way...
  152. @Anonymous
    @Known Fact


    the aliens plot to conquer Earth simply by giving us the technology to demoralize ourselves
     
    What does it mean exactly to “demoralize” someone, in this sense. And what is the effect of it?

    Replies: @Known Fact

    It means we’d be too isolated, depressed, dispirited and at odds with each other to mount a defense or even try. It’s sometimes asked if the America of today could mount a united effort against some attack like Americans so resoundingly did in WWII — or are we too self-centered and divided?

    One character in O.B.I.T. laments that “no one can laugh, or joke — it watches.” Which is where cancel culture seems to be headed, in large part due to our social media. It’s demoralizing when you can’t freely speak the truth.

  153. @Peter Johnson
    Is there a gender bias (favoring women) in the Dunbar number? Anecdotally, my wife for example must be up to 300+ whereas I would struggle to hit 150. I think that such a gender bias could be common. That might also feed into the gender-related difference in reactions to the Floyd incident.

    Replies: @bomag, @Neoconned, @anonymous 389, @Ben tillman

    wwebd said —– Peter Johnson – I respectfully disagree (with a claim that women may have a naturally higher D number). You are probably a hard working guy with a good salary, and a focus on your work and on being virtuous, which is why you have the type of wife who has 300 plus people she cares about (for perspective, if you were a low-IQ guy banging a meth-head prostitute, 10 would be her high number on a good day. Trust me – except for the meth and the prostitution, there is nothing wrong with a gf like that – but it is what it is). If you were the sort of semi-on-the-spectrum cubicle-dweller net-working low T guy who cannot focus on high-paying independent tasks, you would probably be married to a normal woman with the normal 40 or so connections, and would probably be somewhere around 40 yourself, and the idea would never cross your mind that women are better at the D number.

    General MacArthur and Nimitz, both high-T guys, were somewhere around 5 or 10,000 (in other words, they knew about 5 or 10 thousand fellow officers or NCOs well enough to correctly assign them difficult tasks). In my short unprosperous 10 years in the military, I reached close to a thousand. Not counting my non-military contacts. Which is why they have about five to ten times as many medals as me (numerically) and were thousands of times more influential than me (tens or hundreds of thousands? work the exponentials, and you will get the answer. It has to be closer to hundreds of thousands than tens of thousands).

    Personally, as I am aging out from this world, I am somewhere near 10,000, although of course I do not interact with more than a handful on any given day (I am what used to be called a novelist, but there is no money in that, and anyway I am not about to publish the kind of extremely detailed novel I like to write under the current post-idiocracy regime) so I am just some guy that people like to hang out with when I am not spending hours every day straightening out fantastically complicated accounting narratives, such as not to enrage any of the thousands of people who react to my finished product.

    My best guess is that women cannot have an advantage – taken on the average – on this because, let’s face it, to succeed in life as a woman there is very little up-side to a number much bigger than 200 or the famous 150. And for women there is the downside that a few psychos in the network is very dangerous, for most guys, knowing a few psychos just gives you the opportunity to play them off against each other, with little real physical danger. In short, for guys, huge networks like the 5K or 10K of Nimitz or MacArthur can be very rewarding. For women, what’s the point?

  154. @donut
    Has anybody ever seen the movie "Stars and Bars" with Daniel Day Louis ?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @donut

    I read the book by William Boyd, but don’t remember much about it other than the secret of how the rich old man made his money.

  155. @Intelligent Dasein
    Quite the contrary, I don't believe anybody really cares about George Floyd. He's just an acceptable excuse to rage and riot, which were the true objectives.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    The Left were a riot waiting for a pretext. Floyd provided it. And Blacks are always a riot waiting for a pretext.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
  156. I am in financial services and the Dunbar rule is commonly understood. What happens is that someone gets 150 clients and then starts handing off smaller clients to a junior advisor as they keep growing. It is really hard to provide good personal service once you go above that number even with a highly trained and full staff. The other thing is that you can only become so diversified. Like a mutual fund, once you hit go above 100, your risk of losing a client becomes far less worrisome because you still have 149 more.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    @Prof. Woland

    As a footnote, I am a copious note taker. to manage that number of people WELL, you need to have more than a good memory. Having a good contact management system and using it properly is worth its weight in gold.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Prof. Woland

    C'mon guys! Michael Scott has taken us through his excellent method before. Pay attention this time, or we'll send you to a diversity session:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCUADvwyPUE

  157. @Prof. Woland
    I am in financial services and the Dunbar rule is commonly understood. What happens is that someone gets 150 clients and then starts handing off smaller clients to a junior advisor as they keep growing. It is really hard to provide good personal service once you go above that number even with a highly trained and full staff. The other thing is that you can only become so diversified. Like a mutual fund, once you hit go above 100, your risk of losing a client becomes far less worrisome because you still have 149 more.

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @Achmed E. Newman

    As a footnote, I am a copious note taker. to manage that number of people WELL, you need to have more than a good memory. Having a good contact management system and using it properly is worth its weight in gold.

    • Agree: bruce county
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Prof. Woland


    Having a good contact management system and using it properly is worth its weight in gold.
     
    Could you please recommend a contact management system? What note taking process have you developed?

    Thank you!

    Replies: @Prof. Woland

  158. @Dieter Kief
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    This remark of yours has not only a sarcastic side to it. It runs deeper in my eyes. Death is where normally religion kicks in - because death hints at questions that in an everyday context can't be answered but are there nonetheless.

    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has - - - - - found God.

    Add to that, that in the Christian religion, the converted sinner is ranking morally quite high.

    Luke 15:7

    “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

    Replies: @reactionry, @HallParvey, @Crawfurdmuir, @Charlotte

    Except, it’s not George Floyd who is the converted sinner. Indeed, mentioning Floyd’s dubious past is a good way to get yourself canceled. It’s the “racist” SJWs who are renouncing their white privilege and proclaiming the good news that Black Lives Matter!

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Charlotte


    Except, it’s not George Floyd who is the converted sinner. Indeed, mentioning Floyd’s dubious past is a good way to get yourself canceled.
     
    I hope you would rather not be canceled if you'd use actual quotes of George Floyd in which he declared that he wanted to be a better person in the future - that he had left Texas in order to be able to do so... He actually publicly said all these things.

    PS
    Even if in the overly sensuous public of these days it might come across maybe a bit harsh - but trying to become a better person after having been to jail for a major crime may well be understood as an equivalent for having sinned. So - George Floyd's status as a sinner should be beyond doubt - even for the well-meaning and woke. As long as they respect religion (and that implies George Floyd's public self-portrait as a Christian believer).

  159. @donut
    Has anybody ever seen the movie "Stars and Bars" with Daniel Day Louis ?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @donut

    It’s just amusing , but early D D Lewis . And interesting for all the people who became stars later or not . And “Freeborn” would be a great name for an American child .

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    @donut

    The early D.D. Lewis was a Dallas Cowboy.

  160. @syonredux
    @prosa123


    In the 1951 British book The Dam Busters by Paul Brickhill, based on the real-life 1943 bombing of German dams, the RAF commander’s black dog was named, well, you know. That in fact actually had been its name. By the time the movie version came out just four years later in 1955 that was no longer acceptable and the dog’s name was Trigger.
     
    In the original release, the dog's actual name was used. Later on....

    During World War II there was a dog called Ni[***]r, a black Labrador belonging to Royal Air Force Wing Commander Guy Gibson,[21] and the mascot of No. 617 Squadron. Gibson owned the dog when he was previously a member of 106 Squadron. Ni[****] often accompanied Gibson on training flights and was a great favourite of the members of both 106 and 617 Squadrons. He was noted for his liking of beer, which he drank from his own bowl in the Officers' Mess.[22]
     

    Ni[****] died on 16 May 1943, the day of the "Dam Busters" raid, when he was hit by a car. He was buried at midnight as Gibson was leading the raid. The dog's name was used as a single codeword whose transmission conveyed that the Möhne Dam had been breached. In the film, the dog was portrayed in several scenes; his name and the codeword were mentioned several times. Some of the these scenes were sampled in the film Pink Floyd – The Wall (1982).[23]
     

    In 1999, British television network ITV broadcast a censored version of the film, removing all utterances of "Ni[***]r". ITV blamed regional broadcaster London Weekend Television, which in turn alleged that a junior staff member had been responsible for the unauthorised cuts. When ITV again showed a censored version in June 2001, it was condemned by the Index on Censorship as "unnecessary and ridiculous" and because the edits introduced continuity errors.[24] The British Channel 4 screened the censored version in July 2007, in which the dialogue was dubbed so as to call the dog "Trigger", this screening took place just after the planned remake was announced. In September 2007, as part of the BBC Summer of British Film series, The Dam Busters was shown at selected cinemas across the UK in its uncut format. The original, uncensored, version was also shown on 1 and 5 January 2013, by Channel 5. It was the version, distributed by StudioCanal, containing shots of the bomber flying into a hill.

     

    Replies: @Rob McX

    The poor dog will never rest in peace. He was buried at a Royal Air Force station in Lincolnshire after dying in a road accident 1943. But last month the RAF replaced his headstone bearing his name, saying it “did not want to give prominence to an offensive term that went against its ethos”.

  161. @John Long
    Hardcore porn has destroyed the American mind.

    Don't underestimate the power of such utter depravity experienced over and over by developing minds.

    I'd hang them all.

    Replies: @anonymous

    I’m already hung, thank you.

  162. @Peter Johnson
    Is there a gender bias (favoring women) in the Dunbar number? Anecdotally, my wife for example must be up to 300+ whereas I would struggle to hit 150. I think that such a gender bias could be common. That might also feed into the gender-related difference in reactions to the Floyd incident.

    Replies: @bomag, @Neoconned, @anonymous 389, @Ben tillman

    As it happens, I was just thinking of this 150 thing a couple of days ago. 150 is far too low. 800 sounds about right.

  163. @Crawfurdmuir
    @Dieter Kief


    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has – – – – – found God.
     
    Jailhouse conversions are a well known phenomenon, so one may be permitted to entertain some scepticism about their genuineness.

    Would someone who had "found God" feel a need to be high on fentanyl and meth, as Floyd was? Would he pass counterfeit banknotes minutes before his fatal encounter with the police? His conduct at the hour of his death was not that of someone in a state of grace.

    Replies: @Cato, @Dieter Kief

  164. @AnotherDad

    The Floyd protests fit into this pattern. The terrible events in Powderhorn Park, Minneapolis, were local and fleeting but took place before a battery of cell phone cameras—and at once became global and searchable. The public experienced a digital murder. Because it was visual, it felt personal. Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend. Because his death was searchable, it turned into a recurring nightmare, a wound that could not heal.
     
    Of course, the public did not "experience a digital murder". They experienced a "digital drug overdose", marketed by minoritarians as "murder".

    But the rest of this is spot on--if not new. Our visual processing is very powerful--our #1 sensory input. And we simply have not evolved the filter--the skepticism--toward what we see, that we have toward what we hear (or read).

    This isn't brand new with social media. The media gave people a carefully curated version of Rodney King's beating 30 years ago--and ran it again and again. George Floyd just lets people do it themselves, more often if they like.

    But i think it's absolutely undeniable that minoritarianism could not have had its tentacles around the throat of white people and Western civilization 100 years ago, before TV and video. The ability of minoritarians to create totally false narratives--i.e. lies--and inject them directly into white people's brains has been the critical tool in our destruction.

    Simply end Hollyweird and you'd see a pretty big lurch back toward sanity.

    Replies: @Lurker, @The Last Real Calvinist

    Good post.

    Even if you’re a fairly critical news reader/movie and TV watcher, and you work to filter out the most egregious lies, if you keep exposing yourself you’ll find quanitity has a quality of its own, as they say.

    I like to characterize The Narrative as a great rough Yeatsian beast. It’s huge, relentless, and indifferent to the sniping of any number of countercultural attacks, no matter how well-aimed. It wears you down.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Your Yeatsian beast is a reference that sounds interesting, even though I don't quite get it, I have to admit. Would you mind explaining that a bit?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    , @Anonymous
    @The Last Real Calvinist



    I like to characterize The Narrative as a great rough Yeatsian beast. It’s huge, relentless, and indifferent to the sniping of any number of countercultural attacks, no matter how well-aimed.
     
    I agree that it is huge, relentless, and indifferent. However, I also believe that, like any other form of trickery, it can be defeated.

    The metaphor I like to use for the narrative (no reverential capitalisation for me, thanks) is the unnamed creature from Lovecraft's The Dunwich Horror. I don't know if Lovecraft has much currency in 2020 America (I will ignore the ludicrous Lovecraft Country), but anyone wishing to read the original story in all of its pulp magazine glory can find it here:

    https://archive.org/details/Weird_Tales_v13n04_1929-04

    The point being, while it is a formidable creature indeed, it can be overcome.

    How to defeat it? Simple: straighten up, fold your arms, and say, "enough."

    Easier said than done? Undoubtedly. However, just as voodoo holds no power over those who do not believe in it, all of this nonsense will stop when enough people finally find the courage to deny the narrative any power over them.

    As Mark Twain noted in The Mysterious Stranger:



    I know your race. It is made up of sheep. It is governed by minorities, seldom or never by majorities. It suppresses its feelings and its beliefs and follows the handful that makes the most noise. Sometimes the noisy handful is right, sometimes wrong; but no matter, the crowd follows it. The vast majority of the race, whether savage or civilized, are secretly kind-hearted and shrink from inflicting pain, but in the presence of the aggressive and pitiless minority they don't dare to assert themselves.

    Think of it! One kind-hearted creature spies upon another, and sees to it that he loyally helps in iniquities which revolt both of them. Speaking as an expert, I know that ninety-nine out of a hundred of your race were strongly against the killing of witches when that foolishness was first agitated by a handful of pious lunatics in the long ago. And I know that even to-day, after ages of transmitted prejudice and silly teaching, only one person in twenty puts any real heart into the harrying of a witch.

    And yet apparently everybody hates witches and wants them killed. Some day a handful will rise up on the other side and make the most noise—perhaps even a single daring man with a big voice and a determined front will do it—and in a week all the sheep will wheel and follow him, and witch-hunting will come to a sudden end.
     
  165. @Buffalo Joe
    @Anonymous

    ThreeThreeNine, yes there were women's cluns but I doubt they had any political or financial clout. The organizations with clout were for men such as Masons, Rotary, Kiwanis,Odd Fellows, Knights of Columbus and Moose etc. Need a job? Need a loan? Need a reference? These were the people who facilitated that.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    ThreeThreeNine, yes there were women’s clubs but I doubt they had any political or financial clout.

    They got Prohibition passed by 46 states, without the vote in more than half of them.

    That’s clout. Clout and a half.

  166. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Hit "Troll" on my phone by mistake. Oh my George.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Adam Smith, @HammerJack

    Oh my George!

  167. @AnotherDad
    @Russ


    The Polish part, given Poland these days, should have been an asset. The doctorate in physical chemistry — not cited — should also enter into the analysis. Perhaps the commie-loving father in EG held sway.
     
    What seems to have held sway is "childless woman".

    This alone is a grievous mistake. Heck, each of these qualities alone is a mistake.

    Merkel--AFAICT not being a German--was bouncing along being a boring Christian Democrat establishment pol--Kohl 2.0. Then suddenly there were poor innocent "refugees" who needed her and an a instant the childless old biddy was "Mutter Merkel" the mother to millions.

    The fact that she had in a year or two a demographic catastrophe on the order of the US's "legacy of slavery", severely trashing the future of every actually German child ... meant nothing. She was finally a nurturing mom!

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Lot

    Both Poles and former East Germans have better politics than West Germans.

    Merkel ended up somewhat like Nixon in the 70s: shifting left with population. Her last couple coalitions included socialists, as her party lacked a majority.

    Speaking of childless, I think this may be why Kamala gets passed over despite being the overwhelming favorite in betting markets.

  168. @Buzz Mohawk

    Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend.
     
    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Almost Missouri, @The Anti-Gnostic, @advancedatheist, @donut

    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    I can see why this would trigger the readers here: It reminds them of the simple-minded Christianity that many of us grew up with.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @advancedatheist

    You can believe in the God-Man, or you can believe in the drug-addicted, amateur pornographer.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    , @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    @advancedatheist

    The Floyd cult really reminds people more of the shallow moralizing of atheist intellectual mediocrities (because it is).

  169. @Fidelios Automata
    @Mr McKenna

    And why did they (the media) pick such an unsympathetic victim this time? Was it perhaps intentional?

    Replies: @HammerJack

    Even though the victim was far from ideal, the released footage was tailor-made for tugging at the heart strings of female SJWs, negroes, and others who are all about “feels” and impervious to facts and logic.

    Why was the more illuminating footage suppressed, along with the toxicology report?

  170. @Paul Mendez
    @Andrew M

    I think you’re confused. The Dunbar number is not your actual number of contacts. It’s your potential for storing/manipulating them. Like your computer has a certain amount of storage capacity. Whether you use it all or not depends on your situation.

    IIRC the Dunbar number is not just the number of people you can recognize, but the number of people you know things about. Not just their names but their marriage status, relative intelligence, honesty and so on.

    Replies: @Rob McX, @Andrew M

    No, I mean the storage capacity itself has high variability. A hill farmer would have no need to know 150 people; whereas a trader would need to know many more. Selection pressures would lead to different Dunbar capacities.

  171. @Alrenous
    @Dieter Kief

    I am sometimes capable of writing a sentence which is both discursively logical and what we're apparently calling stochastically logical. I would expect the God of Creation to be more capable than I am, rather than less; capable of consistently writing such sentences.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Religion is the answer to existential questions and these are of a different kind than logical or mathematical ones. The real questions, Wittgenstein once remarked, arise after you have trespassed the realm of logic, mathematics, reason and the like.

    If you don’t like Ludwig Wittgenstein, you might try Immanuel Kant: He did write his three Critiques not to get rid of religion, but to make room for it.

    PS

    It makes no sense to reason with God because we can’t know, what he would say (how he would argue).

    PPS

    God is no logical but an ethical and – via the services etc. – a practical solution. Sociologist Emile Durkheim was maybe the first to analyze religion in this way.

    PPPS

    It is no coincidence, that Christianity and Buddhism especially did co-evolve with Religion after people started settled down and build stable villages and – cities. – cf Jürgen Habermas: This Too a History of Philosophy (2019) and – shorter, but very concise already: Post Metaphysical Thinking II (German 2012); and Religion and Rationality; Essays on Reason, God, and Modernity 1998).

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Dieter Kief

    Oh, the first PPPS sentence should read: It is no coincidence, that Christianity and Buddhism especially did co-evolve together with philosophical reason and rationality…

  172. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @AnotherDad

    Good post.

    Even if you're a fairly critical news reader/movie and TV watcher, and you work to filter out the most egregious lies, if you keep exposing yourself you'll find quanitity has a quality of its own, as they say.

    I like to characterize The Narrative as a great rough Yeatsian beast. It's huge, relentless, and indifferent to the sniping of any number of countercultural attacks, no matter how well-aimed. It wears you down.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Anonymous

    Your Yeatsian beast is a reference that sounds interesting, even though I don’t quite get it, I have to admit. Would you mind explaining that a bit?

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Dieter Kief

    Hello Dieter;

    It's an allusion to a famous poem by W B Yeats. It was published in 1920, so this year is its centennial.


    The Second Coming

    BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
     

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  173. @Crawfurdmuir
    @Dieter Kief


    Add to that, that there are videos, in which George Floyd says, he has – – – – – found God.
     
    Jailhouse conversions are a well known phenomenon, so one may be permitted to entertain some scepticism about their genuineness.

    Would someone who had "found God" feel a need to be high on fentanyl and meth, as Floyd was? Would he pass counterfeit banknotes minutes before his fatal encounter with the police? His conduct at the hour of his death was not that of someone in a state of grace.

    Replies: @Cato, @Dieter Kief

    Would someone who had “found God” feel a need to be high on fentanyl and meth, as Floyd was? Would he pass counterfeit banknotes minutes before his fatal encounter with the police? His conduct at the hour of his death was not that of someone in a state of grace.

    You’re right about this aspect of the story. I have written in earlier posts, that this might have added quite a bit to George Floyd’s stress and might have a) motivated him to somehow get out of this unpleasant situation (even though it was impossible) and b) – he might have been well aware that his newly developed public (!) image as a lost son, who had found his way back to God – – – might sour in the process… People awaiting such emotional and personal frustration are in an enormously stressful mood. – Add to that his physical condition and the drugs in his blood and the ambulance which for long minutes couldn’t find its way…

  174. @Buzz Mohawk

    Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend.
     
    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Almost Missouri, @The Anti-Gnostic, @advancedatheist, @donut

    “Because it felt personal, the most violent emotions were aroused. Floyd seemed like a member of one’s private circle: an idealized friend.”

    That’s absurd , Floyd was a POS that anyone with any common sense would give a wide berth . Good riddance .

  175. Anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Last Real Calvinist
    @AnotherDad

    Good post.

    Even if you're a fairly critical news reader/movie and TV watcher, and you work to filter out the most egregious lies, if you keep exposing yourself you'll find quanitity has a quality of its own, as they say.

    I like to characterize The Narrative as a great rough Yeatsian beast. It's huge, relentless, and indifferent to the sniping of any number of countercultural attacks, no matter how well-aimed. It wears you down.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Anonymous

    I like to characterize The Narrative as a great rough Yeatsian beast. It’s huge, relentless, and indifferent to the sniping of any number of countercultural attacks, no matter how well-aimed.

    I agree that it is huge, relentless, and indifferent. However, I also believe that, like any other form of trickery, it can be defeated.

    The metaphor I like to use for the narrative (no reverential capitalisation for me, thanks) is the unnamed creature from Lovecraft’s The Dunwich Horror. I don’t know if Lovecraft has much currency in 2020 America (I will ignore the ludicrous Lovecraft Country), but anyone wishing to read the original story in all of its pulp magazine glory can find it here:

    https://archive.org/details/Weird_Tales_v13n04_1929-04

    The point being, while it is a formidable creature indeed, it can be overcome.

    How to defeat it? Simple: straighten up, fold your arms, and say, “enough.”

    Easier said than done? Undoubtedly. However, just as voodoo holds no power over those who do not believe in it, all of this nonsense will stop when enough people finally find the courage to deny the narrative any power over them.

    As Mark Twain noted in The Mysterious Stranger:

    I know your race. It is made up of sheep. It is governed by minorities, seldom or never by majorities. It suppresses its feelings and its beliefs and follows the handful that makes the most noise. Sometimes the noisy handful is right, sometimes wrong; but no matter, the crowd follows it. The vast majority of the race, whether savage or civilized, are secretly kind-hearted and shrink from inflicting pain, but in the presence of the aggressive and pitiless minority they don’t dare to assert themselves.

    Think of it! One kind-hearted creature spies upon another, and sees to it that he loyally helps in iniquities which revolt both of them. Speaking as an expert, I know that ninety-nine out of a hundred of your race were strongly against the killing of witches when that foolishness was first agitated by a handful of pious lunatics in the long ago. And I know that even to-day, after ages of transmitted prejudice and silly teaching, only one person in twenty puts any real heart into the harrying of a witch.

    And yet apparently everybody hates witches and wants them killed. Some day a handful will rise up on the other side and make the most noise—perhaps even a single daring man with a big voice and a determined front will do it—and in a week all the sheep will wheel and follow him, and witch-hunting will come to a sudden end.

  176. @Dave Pinsen

    Has this Dunbar number theory ever been tested? It’s quite popular, but I mostly see it used in an “As everybody knows” sense.
     
    I remember reading that Alexander the Great knew the names of hundreds of his officers and men, and a bit of that was illustrated in Oliver Stone’s movie.

    https://youtu.be/SxKscPYOOBY

    How many characters are there in the Iliad, and other oral epics?

    The Dunbar Number has been mentioned a lot online recently - why?

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Solomon the Fish, @donut

    That LOL was a mistake .

  177. @Dieter Kief
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Your Yeatsian beast is a reference that sounds interesting, even though I don't quite get it, I have to admit. Would you mind explaining that a bit?

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Hello Dieter;

    It’s an allusion to a famous poem by W B Yeats. It was published in 1920, so this year is its centennial.

    The Second Coming

    BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Thanks - I can see clearly now - -

    Sailing to Byzantium
    BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS
    I

    That is no country for old men. (...)


    IV

    Once out of nature I shall never take
    My bodily form from any natural thing,
    But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
    Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
    To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
    Or set upon a golden bough to sing
    To lords and ladies of Byzantium
    Of what is past, or passing, or to come.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  178. @Charlotte
    @Dieter Kief

    Except, it’s not George Floyd who is the converted sinner. Indeed, mentioning Floyd’s dubious past is a good way to get yourself canceled. It’s the “racist” SJWs who are renouncing their white privilege and proclaiming the good news that Black Lives Matter!

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Except, it’s not George Floyd who is the converted sinner. Indeed, mentioning Floyd’s dubious past is a good way to get yourself canceled.

    I hope you would rather not be canceled if you’d use actual quotes of George Floyd in which he declared that he wanted to be a better person in the future – that he had left Texas in order to be able to do so… He actually publicly said all these things.

    PS
    Even if in the overly sensuous public of these days it might come across maybe a bit harsh – but trying to become a better person after having been to jail for a major crime may well be understood as an equivalent for having sinned. So – George Floyd’s status as a sinner should be beyond doubt – even for the well-meaning and woke. As long as they respect religion (and that implies George Floyd’s public self-portrait as a Christian believer).

  179. @AnotherDad
    @Dieter Kief


    Shortly after George Flod’s death-videos were online, German chancellor Angela Merrkel said, that he had been “murdered”.
     
    Just spitballing here, Dieter ... but maybe a part-Polish, childless, woman, brought up in East Germany by a commie loving minister father, was not the best choice to govern your nation?

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Fluesterwitz, @Russ, @donut

    Having a woman rule anything other than the household is contrary to the laws of nature and nothing good can come from it .

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  180. @Dieter Kief
    @Alrenous

    Religion is the answer to existential questions and these are of a different kind than logical or mathematical ones. The real questions, Wittgenstein once remarked, arise after you have trespassed the realm of logic, mathematics, reason and the like.

    If you don't like Ludwig Wittgenstein, you might try Immanuel Kant: He did write his three Critiques not to get rid of religion, but to make room for it.

    PS

    It makes no sense to reason with God because we can't know, what he would say (how he would argue).

    PPS

    God is no logical but an ethical and - via the services etc. - a practical solution. Sociologist Emile Durkheim was maybe the first to analyze religion in this way.

    PPPS

    It is no coincidence, that Christianity and Buddhism especially did co-evolve with Religion after people started settled down and build stable villages and - cities. - cf Jürgen Habermas: This Too a History of Philosophy (2019) and - shorter, but very concise already: Post Metaphysical Thinking II (German 2012); and Religion and Rationality; Essays on Reason, God, and Modernity 1998).

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Oh, the first PPPS sentence should read: It is no coincidence, that Christianity and Buddhism especially did co-evolve together with philosophical reason and rationality…

  181. @Prof. Woland
    I am in financial services and the Dunbar rule is commonly understood. What happens is that someone gets 150 clients and then starts handing off smaller clients to a junior advisor as they keep growing. It is really hard to provide good personal service once you go above that number even with a highly trained and full staff. The other thing is that you can only become so diversified. Like a mutual fund, once you hit go above 100, your risk of losing a client becomes far less worrisome because you still have 149 more.

    Replies: @Prof. Woland, @Achmed E. Newman

    C’mon guys! Michael Scott has taken us through his excellent method before. Pay attention this time, or we’ll send you to a diversity session:

  182. @Colin Wright
    'Each of us carries along, in our everyday activities, a band of 150 people whom we can identify with fair accuracy...'

    I s'spicions this is bullshit...and I have reason for my assertion.

    I was a high school teacher. As such, I had around 120 students -- each of whom each year I came to be able to immediately identify as 'one of my students.'

    So did I suddenly find the total number of others I could identify falling from 150 to 30?

    No. I still recognized my girlfriend of the moment, my friends, fellow teachers, the extended family I got together with at Thanksgiving, the regulars in my drawing group, the dude in the liquor store, my neighbors...

    Say -- at random -- school aside, there were 89 people I could readily identify. Did adding 12o to that number result in a figure exceeding 150?

    Most certainly. Did this cause me to suddenly have difficulty recognizing the host of my drawing group?

    No -- of course not. The 'Dunbar number' may exist -- but it's certainly not 150.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I think this thread, and perhaps that article, has suffered from a misunderstanding of the Dunbar number. I take it to mean not the number of people you can identify but the number of people whose life activities and social networks you can keep track of. It may be a constraint imposed less by cognitive capacity/evolution than by the structure of reality, like time in a day, etc.

    • Thanks: Colin Wright
  183. ….may be largely due to journalists being laughed at on Twitter.

    As an aside, The Oregonian newspaper (in Portland) disabled all comments on articles a few months back. The reason given was to no longer provide a platform for “hate speech” However a friend on staff shared that the real reason was writers were growing angry that commenters were not just poking holes in the “facts” of their stories, but blowing large gaps in their entire narrative. It was making them feel unsafe.

  184. The Dunbar number is a source for both for both anxiety and hope. Despite the protestations of born again Christians, it is difficult to see how Jesus could have a personal relationship with more than about 150. Who are among the chosen? On the other hand, perhaps the tortures of Hell are mitigated by simply being forgotten by Satan.

  185. @Anonymous
    @Almost Missouri


    Unfortunately for them, well, unfortunately for everyone, they were liberals and so they did not have the language, or even the mental concepts, to conceive or express their visceral resistance
     
    What are examples of language and mental concepts that the parents could have used, had they been aware of them?

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    If my kid came to me claiming to be the “wrong gender”, I would say “that’s f***in stupid, what’s the real problem?” and that would be the end of it, or the end of the trans thing but the beginning of whatever the real problem is. Of course, since I’m not a liberal and don’t run a liberal household, my kid has no reason to come up with the trans thing in the first place.

    Liberalism involves enormous hypocrisy. The young are not good at hypocrisy, so they naturally challenge their elders either to retract their hypocrisy or to prove their hypocrisy is not hypocritical. Since liberals will not admit to being wrong (hypocritical), they always have to double down to prove they were not hypocritical. Virtue spirals ensue. And disaster.

    What are examples of language and mental concepts that the parents could have used, had they been aware of them?

    Truth. Blunt truth.

    The problem began because the parents felt they had to humor an obviously false delusion rather than call it what it is. They probably hoped it would go away by itself, but the their daughter astutely discerned that they had no “liberal ethical” way to oppose her latest outrageous demand, so she kept working it and her parents kept giving ground until she finally owned them (at the cost of her own destruction, but that’s a technicality).

    • Agree: sayless
  186. @Lot
    “ threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa“

    Really? I can’t think if any 5+ dead attacks by antifa, and a fair number by the “far right.”

    It probably will happen fairly soon. Their ability to loot stores and smash the property of their enemies with impunity will attract the deranged even more than normal. They were a really small thing mostly limited to the NW, NY, and a few college towns not too long ago.

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    Replies: @fnn, @Genrick Yagoda, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Almost Missouri, @sayless

    Alt-Right ≠ far right.

    Also, what journalists call “far right” ≠ far right.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  187. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Hit "Troll" on my phone by mistake. Oh my George.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Adam Smith, @HammerJack

    You know you can correct it, right?

    Just go back and make the selection
    you originally meant to.

  188. The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Ben tillman


    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.
     
    Good point - that's a different question than the maximum number of people you can keep track of.
    , @Anonymous
    @Ben tillman


    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.
     
    What does “self-government by consensus” even mean?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @The Anti-Gnostic

  189. @donut
    @donut

    It's just amusing , but early D D Lewis . And interesting for all the people who became stars later or not . And "Freeborn" would be a great name for an American child .

    Replies: @Ben tillman

    The early D.D. Lewis was a Dallas Cowboy.

    • Agree: FPD72
  190. @Daniel Chieh
    @Altai

    Animal Crossing

    Replies: @Altai

    True, though it’s basically the Sims with more busy work, but not being on PC, it’s still more niche since you need to own a specific system to play it. And a lot of mobile gaming.

  191. At least one researcher has also used brain size across primate species to arrive at a Dunbar-like number for the natural human social circle (IIRC correctly it was actually a little lower – maybe 130). The military, too, has arrived at a similar number as have studies in the business world. So there seems to be a lot behind the Dunbar number.

    As far as polarization, the Great Awokening and the resulting George Floyd Reign of Terror etc, it’s hard to see how information technology has helped. As the meme goes, I have in my hand a device that contains all of the knowledge known to man and I use it to look at cats and get into arguments with strangers.

    Case in point: while out and about in one of Seattle’s Whitest neighborhoods, I coaxed a young White BLM activist into an argument. He was completely unaware and in denial that when adjusted for crime rates/police interactions, Blacks were less likely than Whites to be killed by police. I next brought up the point that Asians out earn Whites and have lower arrest/incarceration etc rates and he was in complete disbelief. In fact, he refused to believe it.

    Most humans – maybe none of us – were equipped for the modern suite of information technology, especially social media. Like processed grains and sugar our bodies just don’t know what to do with it. 100 years ago in Seattle, this young White would have had a more accurate understanding of Blacks based on his community’s common wisdom (ie traditions and history – think Kirk-Burke or Sowell). Now there are no common facts, no authority, no tribe. Enter the Globohomo. And cat memes. I wish the Amish well. We’re screwed.

  192. Kling brings up an interesting number: 150. Roughly speaking, that is how many persons you can remember before names, faces, and situations begin to get fuzzy. It’s often called the “Dunbar number,” after British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who first identified this cognitive boundary in a 1992 paper, and it probably represents the hard-wiring in our minds of some maximum hunter-gatherer band size.

    I’m sure one can memorize more than 150 with effort – wasn’t that the fun of collecting baseball cards as kids? Remembering the face, the team, the home town, BA/ERA, etc.? But this knowledge is pretty “flat” and two dimensional. It’s not really interpersonal knowledge.

    But my understanding of the Dunbar number theory is more a matter of the number of people with whom one can manage familiar interpersonal relationships at one time.

    There is probably a good deal of individual variation here. But it also raises the question as to whether modern institutions which are scaled much larger than 150 are inherently psychologically taxing and making people neurotic/causing demand for mood altering drugs of both licit and illicit types. For example, the modern regional American public high school seems to me to be inherently toxic – hundreds or thousands of pubescent and adolescent kids jammed together for hours a day with a few adults managing the situation. Perhaps cities themselves are psychologically draining due to the constant churning of faces well beyond the size of the human tribe – those excess, strange faces could be perceived as hostile, and a constant feeling of hostility causes all sorts of psychological pathologies.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    You could be right about places like schools and work environments where people are forced to interact with hundreds of others. But for many people, a big city is a refuge from unwanted human contact. If you choose to be left alone, nobody bothers you (excluding criminals, but that's not the point here). Rural communities can feel claustrophobic, as everyone knows who you are, and their interest in your life can feel intrusive, even if it's well meant.

  193. @Lot
    “ threat supposedly posed by the Alt-Right (compared to the complete lack of attention to the much larger Antifa“

    Really? I can’t think if any 5+ dead attacks by antifa, and a fair number by the “far right.”

    It probably will happen fairly soon. Their ability to loot stores and smash the property of their enemies with impunity will attract the deranged even more than normal. They were a really small thing mostly limited to the NW, NY, and a few college towns not too long ago.

    Andy Ngo posts dozens of antifa mugshots. A high percentage have a misshapen and asymmetrical face and dull soulless eyes.

    Replies: @fnn, @Genrick Yagoda, @Anonymous, @Achmed E. Newman, @Almost Missouri, @sayless

    You can’t think of any 5+ murderous attacks by antifa because they’ve been quashed before they occurred. Antifa is organized, and law enforcement have been tracking them since at least 2017.

  194. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Dieter Kief

    Hello Dieter;

    It's an allusion to a famous poem by W B Yeats. It was published in 1920, so this year is its centennial.


    The Second Coming

    BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
     

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Thanks – I can see clearly now – –

    Sailing to Byzantium
    BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS
    I

    That is no country for old men. (…)

    IV

    Once out of nature I shall never take
    My bodily form from any natural thing,
    But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
    Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
    To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
    Or set upon a golden bough to sing
    To lords and ladies of Byzantium
    Of what is past, or passing, or to come.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Dieter Kief

    Empty your heart of its mortal dream.

    The winds awaken, the leaves whirl round,
    Our cheeks are red, our hair is unbound,
    Our chests are heaving, our eyes are agleam,
    Our arms are waving, our lips are apart:

    And if any should gaze on our rushing band,
    We come between him and the deed of his hand,
    We come between him and the hope of his heart.

    -- WB Yeats, "The Hosting of the Sidhe"

    Sounds a bit like Antifa, now I think of it.

    No wonder all these useless white druggies looking to get laid join together like that. Romanticism! Stay in your tower, Willie B. Y.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  195. @Prof. Woland
    @Prof. Woland

    As a footnote, I am a copious note taker. to manage that number of people WELL, you need to have more than a good memory. Having a good contact management system and using it properly is worth its weight in gold.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Having a good contact management system and using it properly is worth its weight in gold.

    Could you please recommend a contact management system? What note taking process have you developed?

    Thank you!

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    @Anonymous

    My CMS is industry specific so there is a minimum of customizing. I keep a single thread when I follow a contact so nothing gets lost. I take a few minutes before a call or appointment to review things and I spend 1-5 minutes afterwards to type to write out what occurred. I use and require my employees to use plain English and complete sentences writing notes with the knowledge that someone else will be reading the work. Everything is labeled clearly so it is known what is in a thread. No shibboleths, goose chases, or guess work. I also write my emails and thank you letters as memos and attach them to the contact so they are in the record and I cc my office manager so she will know what to follow up on so I don’t have to.

  196. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Kling brings up an interesting number: 150. Roughly speaking, that is how many persons you can remember before names, faces, and situations begin to get fuzzy. It’s often called the “Dunbar number,” after British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who first identified this cognitive boundary in a 1992 paper, and it probably represents the hard-wiring in our minds of some maximum hunter-gatherer band size.
     
    I'm sure one can memorize more than 150 with effort - wasn't that the fun of collecting baseball cards as kids? Remembering the face, the team, the home town, BA/ERA, etc.? But this knowledge is pretty "flat" and two dimensional. It's not really interpersonal knowledge.

    But my understanding of the Dunbar number theory is more a matter of the number of people with whom one can manage familiar interpersonal relationships at one time.

    There is probably a good deal of individual variation here. But it also raises the question as to whether modern institutions which are scaled much larger than 150 are inherently psychologically taxing and making people neurotic/causing demand for mood altering drugs of both licit and illicit types. For example, the modern regional American public high school seems to me to be inherently toxic - hundreds or thousands of pubescent and adolescent kids jammed together for hours a day with a few adults managing the situation. Perhaps cities themselves are psychologically draining due to the constant churning of faces well beyond the size of the human tribe - those excess, strange faces could be perceived as hostile, and a constant feeling of hostility causes all sorts of psychological pathologies.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    You could be right about places like schools and work environments where people are forced to interact with hundreds of others. But for many people, a big city is a refuge from unwanted human contact. If you choose to be left alone, nobody bothers you (excluding criminals, but that’s not the point here). Rural communities can feel claustrophobic, as everyone knows who you are, and their interest in your life can feel intrusive, even if it’s well meant.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  197. @Lot
    @fnn

    Six of the nine dead were black, another was his sister.

    He certainly was a leftist, like a large part of the US population, but doesn’t seem to have been an act of leftist terrorism.

    Replies: @fnn

    It looks like he was hitting random people in the crowd in front of a bar. Some of the people were black and one was his sister. Dayton is not exactly a big city, such things can happen by chance. IIRC, the bar he attacked was a pro-Trump redneck bar and the signs or bumper stickers on the wall indicated that.

  198. @Ben tillman
    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous

    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.

    Good point – that’s a different question than the maximum number of people you can keep track of.

  199. @Ben tillman
    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous

    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.

    What does “self-government by consensus” even mean?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Anonymous

    'What does “self-government by consensus” even mean?'

    Well, the example that comes to my mind is that of the earliest known form of organization of the German tribes. When something came up, they would sit around and drink and argue until they reached a consensus.

    The author of this description christened the system 'beery democracy' and 'befuddled egalitarianism.' 'Self-government by consensus' also seems apt.

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Anonymous

    You hardly even need to take a vote. The tribal elders talk it out, and announce a decision.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  200. @Anonymous
    @Prof. Woland


    Having a good contact management system and using it properly is worth its weight in gold.
     
    Could you please recommend a contact management system? What note taking process have you developed?

    Thank you!

    Replies: @Prof. Woland

    My CMS is industry specific so there is a minimum of customizing. I keep a single thread when I follow a contact so nothing gets lost. I take a few minutes before a call or appointment to review things and I spend 1-5 minutes afterwards to type to write out what occurred. I use and require my employees to use plain English and complete sentences writing notes with the knowledge that someone else will be reading the work. Everything is labeled clearly so it is known what is in a thread. No shibboleths, goose chases, or guess work. I also write my emails and thank you letters as memos and attach them to the contact so they are in the record and I cc my office manager so she will know what to follow up on so I don’t have to.

  201. @Anonymous
    @Ben tillman


    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.
     
    What does “self-government by consensus” even mean?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @The Anti-Gnostic

    ‘What does “self-government by consensus” even mean?’

    Well, the example that comes to my mind is that of the earliest known form of organization of the German tribes. When something came up, they would sit around and drink and argue until they reached a consensus.

    The author of this description christened the system ‘beery democracy’ and ‘befuddled egalitarianism.’ ‘Self-government by consensus’ also seems apt.

  202. @Anonymous
    @Ben tillman


    The proper understanding of the “150” is that this supposedly the maximum size for a society capable of self-government by consensus.
     
    What does “self-government by consensus” even mean?

    Replies: @Colin Wright, @The Anti-Gnostic

    You hardly even need to take a vote. The tribal elders talk it out, and announce a decision.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @The Anti-Gnostic


    You hardly even need to take a vote. The tribal elders talk it out, and announce a decision.
     
    And everyone ends up agreeing?
  203. @advancedatheist
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    I can see why this would trigger the readers here: It reminds them of the simple-minded Christianity that many of us grew up with.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    You can believe in the God-Man, or you can believe in the drug-addicted, amateur pornographer.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @The Anti-Gnostic


    ‘Does Big Brother exist?’
    ‘Of course he exists. The Party exists. Big Brother is the
    embodiment of the Party.’
    ‘Does he exist in the same way as I exist?’
    ‘You do not exist,’ said O’Brien
     
  204. Say, I wonder what Kevin Bacon’s Dunbar number is?

  205. @Dieter Kief
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Thanks - I can see clearly now - -

    Sailing to Byzantium
    BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS
    I

    That is no country for old men. (...)


    IV

    Once out of nature I shall never take
    My bodily form from any natural thing,
    But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
    Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
    To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
    Or set upon a golden bough to sing
    To lords and ladies of Byzantium
    Of what is past, or passing, or to come.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Empty your heart of its mortal dream.

    The winds awaken, the leaves whirl round,
    Our cheeks are red, our hair is unbound,
    Our chests are heaving, our eyes are agleam,
    Our arms are waving, our lips are apart:

    And if any should gaze on our rushing band,
    We come between him and the deed of his hand,
    We come between him and the hope of his heart.

    — WB Yeats, “The Hosting of the Sidhe”

    Sounds a bit like Antifa, now I think of it.

    No wonder all these useless white druggies looking to get laid join together like that. Romanticism! Stay in your tower, Willie B. Y.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @The Germ Theory of Disease


    Stay in your tower, Willie B. Y.
     
    Michel de Montaigne resigned from office as a legal counselor for his hometown Bordeaux with 39 years. He called it quits, he'd had enough. - And he had - a tower - waiting for him. -And a few essais to write - and - finally, in a way - he wanted to learn how to die

    But before that - and after having been elected mayor of Bordeaux - while traveling in Italy, - he had to flee his tower in the countryside near Bordeaux in 1586 because of the war between Protestants and Catholics and - because the black plague had arrived at Bordeaux and called home ca. 14 000 of its ca. 60.000 inhabitants. When he returned home in March 1587, his family's castle had been destroyed, but the tower was standing (and it still does!).

    He then said to himself, that his cure for being a bit down was to rather think of what was left than what had been destroyed in the war and by the plague in order to - get himself going and rebuild the chateau rather than to sink into self-pitying. The tower remained the center of his intellectual - exercises, and the Essais he completed in this tower were his major work.

  206. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @advancedatheist

    You can believe in the God-Man, or you can believe in the drug-addicted, amateur pornographer.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    ‘Does Big Brother exist?’
    ‘Of course he exists. The Party exists. Big Brother is the
    embodiment of the Party.’
    ‘Does he exist in the same way as I exist?’
    ‘You do not exist,’ said O’Brien

  207. @advancedatheist
    @Buzz Mohawk


    This is what happens when you accept George Floyd into your life as your savior and you begin to have a personal relationship with Him.
     
    I can see why this would trigger the readers here: It reminds them of the simple-minded Christianity that many of us grew up with.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic, @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    The Floyd cult really reminds people more of the shallow moralizing of atheist intellectual mediocrities (because it is).

  208. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Anonymous

    You hardly even need to take a vote. The tribal elders talk it out, and announce a decision.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You hardly even need to take a vote. The tribal elders talk it out, and announce a decision.

    And everyone ends up agreeing?

  209. @vinteuil

    “Look, there are 20,000,000 black guys in America. That’s a huge number. There is always one of that 20,000,000 doing something knuckleheaded and winding up dead. You can’t let yourself go insane over some drugged-up bouncer in Minnesota. We may feel emotionally like we live in a tribe of 150, but we don’t. It’s actually a huge country, so restrain your out-of-control emotions and think sensibly. It’s just the power of The Megaphone to make you believe that George Floyd or Emmett Till is representative. Don’t fall for the statistically nonsensical Narrative.”
     
    Perfect, except for "knuckleheaded," which suggest a sort of harmless, innocent stupidity - something to laugh about.

    The truth about George Floyd is quite a bit worse than that, and is nothing to laugh about.

    But I can't think of the right word.

    Replies: @HallParvey

    But I can’t think of the right word.

    Sure you can. Go into a closet. Whisper it. Say it out loud. Make sure nobody can hear you.

    How do you feel. Guilty?

    That’s the power of the mind control used by the PTB for the last eighty years. Nobody can hear you say the magic word, yet you feel guilty.

    Do this over and over until you no longer feel guilty. Your conditioned reflex will have been erased.

    Just be careful not to say it out loud where anyone can hear you. My conditioned reflex tells me that would result in problems for you.

  210. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Dieter Kief

    Empty your heart of its mortal dream.

    The winds awaken, the leaves whirl round,
    Our cheeks are red, our hair is unbound,
    Our chests are heaving, our eyes are agleam,
    Our arms are waving, our lips are apart:

    And if any should gaze on our rushing band,
    We come between him and the deed of his hand,
    We come between him and the hope of his heart.

    -- WB Yeats, "The Hosting of the Sidhe"

    Sounds a bit like Antifa, now I think of it.

    No wonder all these useless white druggies looking to get laid join together like that. Romanticism! Stay in your tower, Willie B. Y.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Stay in your tower, Willie B. Y.

    Michel de Montaigne resigned from office as a legal counselor for his hometown Bordeaux with 39 years. He called it quits, he’d had enough. – And he had – a tower – waiting for him. -And a few essais to write – and – finally, in a way – he wanted to learn how to die

    But before that – and after having been elected mayor of Bordeaux – while traveling in Italy, – he had to flee his tower in the countryside near Bordeaux in 1586 because of the war between Protestants and Catholics and – because the black plague had arrived at Bordeaux and called home ca. 14 000 of its ca. 60.000 inhabitants. When he returned home in March 1587, his family’s castle had been destroyed, but the tower was standing (and it still does!).

    He then said to himself, that his cure for being a bit down was to rather think of what was left than what had been destroyed in the war and by the plague in order to – get himself going and rebuild the chateau rather than to sink into self-pitying. The tower remained the center of his intellectual – exercises, and the Essais he completed in this tower were his major work.

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