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George Bernard Shaw Is Getting Canceled
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George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950) was the English-speaking world’s most famous leftist from roughly 1895-1935. As a celebrity, he was Tom Stoppard (the top highbrow playwright), Gore Vidal (the most famous interview wit), and David Bowie (the expert self-branding performance artist) rolled into one.

As a playwright, Shaw was long considered Shakespeare’s greatest successors, but 21st Century audiences are less enamored of him. Still, his Pygmalion was made into My Fair Lady. Whatever musical you want to argue is the greatest in the history of the West End/Broadway, you are going to have to come up with an argument for why it’s better than My Fair Lady.

(Interestingly, the 1956 opening night of My Fair Lady, the most famously successful in Broadway history, almost didn’t happen because star Rex Harrison, as Professor Henry Higgins, was suddenly overcome by the paralyzing realization that … he couldn’t sing. But eventually it was communicated to the star that nobody would care about his deficiencies as a singer because the world was about to fall in love with his unknown 20-year-old leading lady, Julie Andrews. So Harrison went out and rapped his way through his numbers and the rest is Broadway history.)

But Shaw was in the newspapers every week for roughly ever opining on the need to reform all aspects of society imaginable.

He was the genius of the Fabian Society that more or less invented the bourgeois side of the British Labour Party.

But he had lots and lots more opinions, on what to eat (vegetables), what to wear (while you shouldn’t eat sheep, you should wear woolen underwear at all times), and much else.

For example, his will left money to be devoted to the creation of a Shavian Alphabet to eliminate the problems of English spelling. (BLM activists often have problems with spelling, but you don’t see them calling for rationalized alphabets, now do you?)

But now even Shaw is getting canceled.

From the Sunday Telegraph:

Students call for George Bernard Shaw’s name to be removed from RADA theatre
By Anita Singh

telegraph.co.uk — Students at RADA have said George Bernard Shaw’s name should be removed from its theatre over his support of eugenics.

A recent biographer, Fintan O’Toole, argues that Shaw’s pro-eugenics polemics were so over the top that they were actually Swiftian satires.

But, who knows?

Certainly not the students at the Royal Academy of the Dramatic Arts.

The call is included in an anti-racism action plan that also says received pronunciation should be “de-centred” from the curriculum. The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art should also consider dropping the performance of Restoration comedies due to their association with empire, the plan says.

 
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  1. In the end, GK Chesterton will have the last laugh.

  2. theMann says:

    Only two tenets to any Left Wing system:

    1. Property is fungible. If you have it and I want it, I can take it. If you have it and I don’t want it, I can destroy it. Because I am morally superior to you.
    2. Mankind is, in fact, perfectible, but only by me, because I am morally superior to you.

    All creatures of the Left live by these tenets. Of course Shaw, like every other Lefty of the time period, was 100% committed to Eugenics, the scientifically proven method to make a better humanity. He obviously had no hesitation telling the rest of us that in no uncertain terms. Shaw was not engaging in satire, he was a true believer.

  3. The cancelling of Bernard Shaw shows that even Marxists aren’t safe.

    Meanwhile, what’s the issue with eugenics? Seems legit to me.

    We’re doing the dysgenics thing and it’s not working so well.

  4. “…I merely meant, Your Majesty, that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark.”

    • Thanks: Mr McKenna
  5. If Shaw was canceled, it wouldn’t be loverly.

    • Replies: @Ano
  6. I hear you say “Why?” Always “Why?” You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”

    –GB Shaw

    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
  7. Jesse says:

    Fintan O’Toole, if he’s also the Irish Times columnist, is a painfully (and also irritatingly) orthodox liberal. He’s also a White man of a certain age, so he sometimes seems a little confused at the vast shift leftwards, and probably knows his time is limited.

    Point is, his theory about GBS is as likely about trying to protect his hero, and the general political theory he represented. If Shaw was against it, why not say it at some point, especially since he had a platform, could presumably see people wildly misunderstanding his point, and we all know the progressive love of eugenics in the era?

  8. But, who knows?

    Certainly not the students at the Royal Academy of the Dramatic Arts.

    NICK: Our parents’ generation was never interested in keeping up standards. They wanted to be happy, but of course the last way to be happy is to make it your objective in life.

    TOM: I wonder if our generation’s any better than our parents’.

    NICK: Oh, it’s far worse. Our generation’s probably the worst since… the Protestant Reformation. It’s barbaric, but a barbarism even worse than the old-fashioned, straightforward kind. Now barbarism is cloaked with all sorts of self-righteousness and moral superiority—will you look at this?

    TOM: You’re obviously talking about a lot more than just detachable collars.

    NICK: Yeah, I am.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Not Raul
  9. Ano says:

    Psst! (in a whisper) Mr Sailer!

    If RADA stops performing plays authored by white men, all the PoC actors lose their paying Woke gig of replacing white actors and playing the white characters roles.

    What a shame! (But not for English drama.)

    Shh! Keep it under hat- sorry, I mean your powdered wig!

  10. Granted My Fair Lady is a great musical, there is still something wrong with hiring actors who can’t sing, and to write musical number that aren’t intended to be sung. In the traditional manner, musical numbers were intended to be actually sung. This is akin to hiring Richard Geere for Chicago calling for him to dance and sing, of which he could do neither.

    The Sound of Music, also with Julie Andrews, has a strong case for being the greatest filmed musical of all of Broadways top musicals from the pre-1970 era. One of the biggest grossing musicals ever, and it won the Oscar for best film.

    “Who is Babe Ruth, and what does she do?”—Shaw, ca. 1926.

    • Replies: @Lace
    , @keypusher
  11. Ano says:
    @ScarletNumber

    If Shaw went Woke, wouldn’t it be lov-er-ly?

    If I put on a production of My Fair Baby-mama, would you be interested in playing the role of Eliza Dindunuffin?

    • LOL: Lace
  12. Many well-meaning thinkers in the early 20th Century were eugenicists. Socialists were particularly attracted to eugenics, because they wanted to give a better deal to the poor, and they were afraid that this generosity would result in larger numbers of poor and “feeble-minded” children.

    Some time around 1900, British society underwent a fundamental change: previously, the number of children who survived into adulthood was larger for wealthy people than for the poor. At least in terms of wealth and class, the default condition of society was eugenic. After 1900 this was reversed. As prosperity increased, with concomitant improvements in sanitation, society became dysgenic by default, and it has been that way ever since.

    Socialists in those days were not afraid to think about the future course of society, and they realised that the future would be dysgenic unless eugenic countermeasures were deliberately deployed. They also realised that socialism itself would make dysgenics worse. This kind of thinking is now strictly taboo, because Hitler. The result is that we are slowly heading towards Idiocracy, and we are not allowed to talk about it.

    Liberals must cancel George Bernard Shaw, in order to remind people of the taboo on eugenics. Shaw will be deemed a Nazi, to conceal the facts that he was a socialist, and that early socialists did not sacralise the people at the bottom of the heap.

    • Thanks: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  13. utu says:

    How Shaw defended Stalin’s mass killings
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1433323/How-Shaw-defended-Stalins-mass-killings.html

    Why George Bernard Shaw Had a Crush on Stalin
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/11/opinion/why-george-bernard-shaw-had-a-crush-on-stalin.html

    To the Editor of the Manchester Guardian

    Sir – Increasing unemployment and the failure of private capital to cope with it throughout the rest of the world is causing persons of all classes and parties to watch with increasing interest the progress of the Soviet Union.

    Any yet this is precisely the moment that has been chosen to redouble the intensity of the blind and reckless campaign to discredit it. No lie is too fantastic, no slander is too stale, no intervention too absurdly contrary to what is now common knowledge for employment by the more reckless elements of the British press. A manifest lunatic assassinated the President of the French republic. He must be a Bolshevik. A child of Colonel Lindbergh is kidnapped and murdered; certain of our newspapers are not ashamed to mock its parents’ distress with the same senseless cry. It is ascertained that the Russians have to work daily for their living under the Five-Year Plan and immediately a British duchess leads the protest against Bolshevik slavery.

    Particularly offensive and ridiculous is the revival of the old attempts to represent the condition of Russian workers as one of slavery and starvation, the Five-Year Plan as a failure, the new enterprises as bankrupt and the Communist regime as tottering to its fall. Although such inflammatory irresponsibility is easily laughed at, we must not forget that there are many people not sufficiently well informed politically to be proof against it, and that there are diehards among our diplomats who still dream of starting a counter-revolutionary war anywhere and anyhow, if only they can stampede public opinion into the necessary panic through the press. The seriousness of the situation is emphasized by the British Government’s termination of the trade agreement with the USSR and the provocative questions and answers in the House of Commons.

    We the undersigned are recent visitors to the USSR. Some of us travelled throughout the greater part of its civilized territory. We desire to record that we saw nowhere evidence of such economic slavery, privation, unemployment and cynical despair of betterment as are accepted as inevitable and ignored by the press as having “no news value” in our own countries. Everywhere we saw hopeful and enthusiastic working-class, self-respecting free up to the limits imposed on them by nature and a terrible inheritance from tyranny and incompetence of their former rulers, developing public works, increasing health services, extending education, achieving the economics independence of woman and the security of the child and in spite of many grievous difficulties and mistakes which or social experiments involve a first (and which they have never concealed nor denied) setting an example of industry and conduct which would greatly enrich us if our systems supplied our workers with any incentive to follow it.

    We would regard it as a calamity if the present lie campaign were to be allowed to make headway without contradiction and to damage the relationship between our country and the USSR. Accordingly we urge all men and women of goodwill to take every opportunity of informing themselves of the real facts of the situation and to support the movements which demand peace, trade and closer friendship with an understanding of the greater Workers Republic of Russia.

    Yours etc.

    Bernard Shaw
    33, Ormond Yard, London

  14. The call is included in an anti-racism action plant.

    (Misreading of mine. My inner self seems to be leaning towards PC ecstasy).

  15. If we’d kept up at eugenics, we’d have a better student at The Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts than we currently do.

  16. tyrone says:

    “My equal lady” ….there ,that ought to make them happy.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  17. It was truly a strange cultural climate where Shaw could be considered the pundit’s pundit.

  18. El Dato says:
    @theMann

    There should be something about “loyalty to your tribe” vs. “loyalty to some faraway tribe” to distinguish the Two Great Socialism, too?

  19. @Mr McKenna

    Agree. In reality, everyone is a eugenicist whether they know it or not.* The only variance is whether they admit it, and how much coercion they will apply.

    But perhaps more importantly, reality itself is eugenist. As Olorin commented some time back,

    [ ] EUGENICS
    [ ] DYSGENICS

    Nature says: pick one.

    ——

    *Okay, there was that one French woman who would sleep with anyone as a sort of liberalist religious commitment, but she was so exceptional that she was (momentarily) world famous.

  20. For example, his will left money to be devoted to the
    creation of a Shavian Alphabet to eliminate the
    problems of English spelling. (BLM activists often
    have problems with spelling, but you don’t see them
    calling for rationalized alphabets, now do you?)

    Lol.

    I have seen lots of Brits (not aliens) using words like radicalization instead of radicalisation. Ameringos are good at double even triple negatives like ‘I ain’t gave no money to nobody’, and like.

    Modern English is simple and Creole-like but inconsistent grammar rules can be problematic for non-native speakers.

    You can say hardship but not softship. Ox and oxen are fine but not hound and hounden. ‘He lied on the floor’ is incorrect except if the person is a Senator or Member of Parliament. It is also easy to mix up words like there and their as well as hear and here.

    The money should have gone towards reviving Old English so as to prevent future wars with Germany and the Netherlands.

  21. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Steve sometimes compares Stillman & Allen re getting money for their projects, but I don’t know what to think about it all.

    Stillman seems to me essentially an inheritor of a genteel Anglo Protestant tradition with its idealism, basically a spiritual descendant of original New Englanders who almost completely forgot his ancestors, but has retained elements of their sensibility (never mind his actual genealogy). This is Henry James for masses, populated with somehow cruder, narrower characters & possessing a sense of humor. Does he have a world-view, or he simply satirizes some class of people? In my opinion, he absolutely knows what he thinks & feels about the world. Just, he hadn’t been given a chance to express it fully.

    Allen is, on the other hand, your typical neurotic, intelligent & dirty Jew, catapulted out of a shtetl right into Manhattan, but remaining virtually the same (only his stage has expanded, vastly). He shares, along with many Jews from that area, hysterical approach to life characteristic of too many Russians (it isn’t for nothing that Jews are, despite his antijudaism, Dostoevsky’s greatest fans). This world-view is, unlike Stillman’s, essentially unhealthy. Many Allen’s films are about WASPs, but his unheroic heroes & heroines are culturally distilled & sensitive people who, in theory, are of WASP origin, but are in reality global old money aestheticized rootless cosmopolitans, without the baggage of Jewish hysteria & paranoia. Some of these movies, like Midnight in Paris, may work, but most are highly artificial- Allen has confused & made a stew of non-intersecting, different historical-cultural-spiritual worlds, and results are not quite satisfying.

    Stillman could have made at least 10 more movie, had he gotten the money. What would it all have amounted to, we will never know…..

    • Replies: @Ben tillman
    , @Lace
    , @Reg Cæsar
  22. BB753 says:

    Politically, Shaw was only slightly to the right of a rabid marxist and globalist like H. G. Wells.

  23. @Kent Nationalist

    Only in the Catholic sense of the righteous in Heaven contemplating the tortures of those in Hell. On Earth, he’ll be cancelled.

  24. Ray P says:

    “Martyrdom is the only way in which a man can become famous without ability.”
    — G. B. Shaw, Fabian Essays

    • Replies: @keypusher
  25. Nodwink says:

    That Oprah “You’re getting a car!” meme, except it’s “You’re getting cancelled… you’re getting cancelled… you’re getting cancelled…”

  26. El Dato says:
    @Almost Missouri

    *Okay, there was that one French woman who would sleep with anyone as a sort of liberalist religious commitment, but she was so exceptional that she was (momentarily) world famous.

    French sexistentialism?

  27. @Jesse

    Fintan is Irish. As in from the island. To apply whiteness is to apply an American taxonomy. The English didn’t need to invent a whiteness to justify empire. Being Anglo Saxon was good enough.

  28. It’s honestly hard to think of an artist who has fallen further in reputation from his peak than Shaw. Maybe someone like Sinclair Lewis since unlike Lewis there are still some people who defend Shaw’s genius.

    Other than Saint Joan everything is forgettable. It’s interesting how Joan of Arc was able to inspire a grudging admiration from two of the worlds biggest gas bag scoffers Shaw and Twain.

    Even by Hume’s rules for miracles Joan’s campaign and the first crusade almost seem like miracles.

  29. Anonymous[638] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not particularly old, I’m in my mid fifties, but I am conscious of fact that within the timespan that I’ve been aware of such things, I read and studied GBS’s plays at school as a 15 year old, Shaw’s stock as great dramatist, sage and intellectuals has fallen somewhat. For whatever reason, he seems to be fading from public awareness with every passing year and generation.

    Although not quite the same thing, I can also sense that the stock of The Beatles is slowly dwindling.

  30. El Dato says:

    On-Topic: More on canceling

    While browsing through my disk file stash I re-discovered the Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by Robert C. Martin (aka. “Uncle Bob”), concerning the public shaming and ejection of one Charles Max Wood from a conference. Justification being him having violated the Code of Conduct of the conference. Fact being, he was publicly accused of having the temerity to wear a MAGA hat (which, I surmise, is violence and akin to gassing penned-in penguins in server pits using Microsoft Monoxide).

    It was written then by Robert Martin:

    In summary, it appears to this humble observer that The Code of Conduct process at The Linux Foundation went very badly off the rails with regard to Charles Max Wood. That LF owes Mr. Wood, and the Software Community at large, a profound apology. That LF should keep all future Code of Conduct complaints and decisions personal and confidential. That LF should publish and follow a well defined process for accepting, reviewing, and adjudicating future Code of Conduct complaints. And that some form of reparation be provided to Mr. Wood for the public harm that was done to him by the careless and unprofessional behavior of The Linux Foundation.

    This month, we bring you (drumroll) The Canceling by the Bluehaired Inquisition:

    The Disinvitation

    Last Wednesday, September 9th, twelve days before the conference, he [my friend] called me on the phone and said:

    “This is going to be the most uncomfortable phone call I have ever made.”

    He went on to say that the “Code of Conduct” people at the conference were concerened [sic] about some of my political opinions, and that some of the speakers of the conference refused to speak if I was going to speak.

    Like I said, this guy is a friend of mine, and I don’t want to get him into any trouble, so I decided not to raise a fuss about it, and I promised him I would not mention his name or the name of the conference on line. He responded by telling me:

    I’m scared to death of these people.

    Over the last few days I’ve been mulling this situation over in my mind, and I’ve come to a few interesting conclusions.

    The conference organizers are in breach of contract.
    The speakers who refused to speak if I spoke are guilty of tortious interference.

    Do I know who those tortiously interfering speakers are? [I don’t] I’ve got a pretty good idea. Myfear of course is that I do not wish to harm my friend. Nor do I wish to harm the conference organizers, nor the Chicago Software community. It seems to me that they are all victims of those revolting speakers.

    So, this time, I’ll let the legal options rest. Instead, I’m offering a virtual free talk at 10:00 AM CDT, on September 21st [Monday 15:00 UTC], the first day of the conference. Those who wanted to hear me speak, still can.

    The last point I’d like to make is this:

    Disinviting someone from a virtual conference who can draw a potentially large audience away from that virtual conference is not a particularly intelligent tactic.

    So what’s it about?

    Topic: The Future of Programming Languages: at the Confluence of Paradigms

    Description: Five decades ago the three major paradigms of software were discovered. In 1968 Dijkstra discovered Structured Programming. Dahl and Nygaard discovered Object Oriented Programming in 1966. And McCarthy discovered Functional Programming in 1958. [Personally I consider (Constraint) Logic Programming the paradigm of the future, but that’s just me] What have we learned since then? How do those paradigms impact us today? And what does the future hold for programmers and programming languages going forward?

    • Replies: @El Dato
  31. Dumbo says:

    Shaw was a wit but also pretty annoying, he had to have opinions on everything.

    Pygmalion and Saint Joan were good plays. But My Fair Lady’s success is likely to the songs, which are not the work of Shaw. But I actually prefer Pygmalion to My Fair Lady, I’m not a fan of musicals.

    I don’t think Shaw can compare to Shakespeare at all, maybe to Ibsen, whom he resembles in the choice of themes, “theater of ideas”, feminism, etc (and he recognized the influence as well). Ibsen has been a bit forgotten by modern audiences, Shaw too.

    Personally I prefer Strindberg and Chekhov among modern dramatists, they are more interesting, well, to me. Ibsen and Shaw would come after.

    The left was very much in love with eugenics at that time. It’s only since the 60s that they turned to dysgenics with a passion.

    • Replies: @anon
  32. Shaw, who was born in 1856, was an immensely successful playwright in the Edwardian era, but he often said that his plays were just excuses for his written prefaces in the published version of the plays. The prefaces were long essays on society and politics. I remember reading them avidly in high school, and its was the first “serious” reading I did.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  33. Anon7 says:

    (BLM activists often have problems with spelling, but you don’t see them calling for rationalized alphabets, now do you?)

    No, but activists are peeved with the LGBTQ+ letter salad. They don’t like it as an acronym (it’s an initialism), they don’t like the letters they have to use (especially I for intersex) and they don’t agree that their causes are alike (trans different from gay, for example). And they argue about the order of the letters.

    I can see them calling for a better alphabet.

  34. El Dato says:
    @El Dato

    The Wikimurdering begins in March 2020 “Adding section on his increasing controversy since 2017”:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_C._Martin&type=revision&diff=947007696&oldid=936080172

  35. @Mr McKenna

    As a socialist Shaw would appreciate having to do double duty. Just as old Bolsheviks who fought in the revolution and later were included in the list of those sent off to the gulags only so a young Stalinist apparatchik could meet his quota, Shaw advanced society’s socialist left alive and now, by becoming a sacrificial white man in death, continues to move society ever leftward. (I know he would appreciate it.)

    Incidentally, I anticipate that many political leftists, who fought the good fight, will also be thrown under the bus, when the advantages of sacrificing them outweighs the benefits of keeping them around. Who won’t enjoy Bubba Clinton being publicly shunned for using his white male privilege to sexually abuse women and girls with impunity?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  36. OT
    Coronaquiz:
    Look at this graph of the number of deaths in April in naughty, naughty non-lockdowning Sweden. The top 20 deadliest Aprils of each year from 1990-2020 are shown. Please circle the bar you believe is the April of the year 2020, the year of the Coronapocalypse.

    Answer:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @El Dato
  37. Anonymous[125] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    In the end, GK Chesterton will have the last laugh.

    Orwell was heavily influenced by Chesterton but tried to distance himself from Chesterton’s “anti-Semitism” and suggesting that in his (Orwell’s) day, Chesterton would be cancelled because of his views (“would find it impossible to get his writings published”).

    From Antisemitism in Britain by George Orwell (1945):

    There has been a perceptible antisemitic strain in English literature from Chaucer onwards, and without even getting up from this table to consult a book I can think of passages which if written now would be stigmatised as antisemitism, in the works of Shakespeare, Smollett, Thackeray, Bernard Shaw, H. G. Wells, T. S. Eliot, Aldous Huxley and various others. Offhand, the only English writers I can think of who, before the days of Hitler, made a definite effort to stick up for Jews are Dickens and Charles Reade. And however little the average intellectual may have agreed with the opinions of Belloc and Chesterton, he did not acutely disapprove of them. Chesterton’s endless tirades against Jews, which he thrust into stories and essays upon the flimsiest pretexts, never got him into trouble — indeed Chesterton was one of the most generally respected figures in English literary life. Anyone who wrote in that strain now would bring down a storm of abuse upon himself, or more probably would find it impossible to get his writings published.

    https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2014/06/antisemitism-in-britain-by-george.html?m=1

    Well in 2020 we’re at the early stages of Orwell himself being cancelled.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  38. Dan Hayes says:
    @Jesse

    In a prior existence, O’Toole was associated with the utterly downscale New York Daily News. Sometimes he shows up in the upscale leftist Guardian. He utterly belongs in the Irish Times, the historical voice of Ireland’s Protestant Ascendancy.

  39. Eugenics is actually the opposite of racism.

    When it focuses on the engineering of individuals’ genetic makeup, with no regard for its race, that fact is obvious.

    If you devise some kind of eugenics aimed at perfecting a certain race, that still goes against racism, because, by perfecting (no matter how one construes that word) something you will inevitably destroy it in its present form to make it into something else.

    Racism is generally understood as a defense of one’s own race, possibly entailing some offensive action on perceived competitors; none of that has anything to do with any supposedly objective assessment of the races’ relative virtues.

    Certain racial features are not optimal in any circumstance. For example, the white skin is not optimal for places with intense sunlight, due to the risk of cancer and related problems. Nevertheless, I don’t envisage any hypothetical racist living in a tropical country who, imbued with an eugenicist mind, would propose the selection of dark-skinned individuals as a means of perfecting the white race as regards the susceptibility to skin diseases.

  40. Flip says:

    “You have to choose between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the government. And, with due respect to these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold.”

    GB Shaw

  41. Shaw’s political opinions were a lot of hooey, but he was a first-rate dramatist. Act One of “Arms and the Man” is about as perfect as you can get in the modern English-speaking theater.

  42. J.Ross says:

    2nd para 1st line 2nd segment “Shaw was long considered Shakespeare’s greatest successors” should be “long considered one of Shakespeare’s greatest successors.” Or singularize “successors.” Feel free to delete comment.

  43. SFG says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    If you’re a Christian, GKC made it to heaven, GBS didn’t.

    If you’re an atheist, GBS lived 14 years longer (being skinny and all).

    Ironically, they were friends.

  44. Shaw was completely opposed to vaccination, if I recall correctly. And as for eugenics, today most Mongoloid fetuses are killed, if I am not mistaken. Many things are opposed when they are done openly but ignored when done discreetly.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  45. @ScarletNumber

    I know this is supposed to be inspiring, but interesting these types of neurotic “creatives”, for all their “imagination” can never seem to come up with the corresponding “why nots” to their insane novelties that every normal person can very quickly.

    These dangerous ingrates that have a perverse phelia for the novel merely because it is novel are everywhere in academia and government, it serves him right that he is finally being disparaged as he deserved (even if his modern critics are just as guilty as him). Also broadway musicals suck.

  46. J.Ross says:

    Israeli teen girls revolt against patriarchy by showing off their legs!

    In fairness to the haredim, they’be been “on the verge” of turning Israel into Iran for decades now, maybe the original estimates failed to take Saturdays into account.
    Earlier generations were actually famous for wearing very short shorts, which makes eminent practical sense if you consider that they were often Northern Europeans doing physical work in the Levantine summer.
    I have never felt like such an utter slimeball, but all cases of real life sounding like an Ed Wood feature must be celebrated.

    • LOL: El Dato
    • Replies: @BB753
  47. @SFG

    If you’re an atheist, GBS lived 14 years longer (being skinny and all).

    And they both ended up dead, their persons completely annihilated, their lives and works both having meant nothing, as all lives do. So it was a draw.

  48. J.Ross says:
    @SFG

    Per the noted health authority Lewis Black, fourteen years of tomato juice and wishing you could have a real drink.

    • LOL: bomag
  49. @SFG

    I like how people, usually calling themselves Christians, use “Christian” as if it had one meaning (univocal, as St. Thomas would say). Among the things the various denom’s differ on is what gets you into heaven; usually, joining up with that denom. Thus for Catholics, “there is no salvation outside the Church,” although they like to soft-pedal that today; just like those Evangelicals who get into trouble saying “God doesn’t hear the prayer of a Jew.”

    So while Catholics may think GKC is in heaven, Evangelicals think his good works were nothing but “filthy rags” (the KJV translation; really, “menstrual cloths” as in the Jamaican swear word “bloodclot”) and he’s burning alongside GBS. No wonder “they were friends”: they were both demonic fiends!

    For Calvin, salvation depends on the inscrutable will of God, so Shaw may be in Heaven afterall. Worldly success is one sign of election, so there’s that.

    Christians also refer to their god as “God” as if anyone else’s god was their trying and failing at reaching the Christian’s god. It’s the same trick the Jews used to bamboozle Cyrus, making it seem like their tribal god was different than the others, because it happened to be the One God that ruled them all (see From Yahweh to Zion by that French guy who writes stuff here).

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  50. Who cares?

    The ass hats have long since, removed monuments, slandered or canceled any tribute to the men responsible for building western civilization.

    The good news is that old lefties like Shaw are all that are left for the virtue signalers to attack.

  51. @utu

    Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner; but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well.

    For some reason this fellow was popular. Nobody thought he was a nice person, but a lot of people wanted to kiss his butt.

  52. Anonymous[259] • Disclaimer says:

    The physical college campuses, the homebases of the revolution, can be returned to their natural states.

    Think open fields, meadows, glades etc.

    Not all. But all of the worst offenders.

    Oh yeah. It can be done.

  53. Shaw’s “Back to Methuselah” reveals him as basically a Lamarckian transhumanist, who thought both Church and Darwin were seeing only part of reality, and that the vital force would produce a higher humanity out of existential and spiritual need. The play has five parts and the middle part is interesting from a racial perspective. It depicts a future imperial Britain (the play dates from 1921) in which the British are in decline, and Chinese and Africans are really running the country. One character does declaim that the next step in evolution must come in order to save the white race; and yet in the next part, when it has happened, the only difference that really matters (to the higher race) is that between short-lived and long-lived, 300-year lifespans being the mark of the higher humanity.

    I wonder what Shaw would make of today’s youthful iconoclasts. I think he would be sympathetic, seeing them as a mix of righteous and naive. He would probably also take cynical amusement in the fact that, after 70 years, this is the year in which royalties from his plays will cease to go to RADA, on account of their copyright expiring. RADA have taken every pound they could from his bequest, and then, the moment there shall be no more, they turn around and denounce him.

    I like “Back to Methuselah” very much. It’s truly a visionary work, with an optimistic teleology despite the terribleness of life. Like the novels of Olaf Stapledon, it’s a work of British futurism from the interwar period, written in the expectation that there would be further terrible wars of high technology, but that there would be grander tomorrows too.

  54. Shaw is actually the perfect example of why cancel culture is stupid and pernicious, for the reasons you give. Shaw is a big bag of opinions, which don’t necessarily contradict each other, but certainly seem to be detachable — today’s socialists are more likely to agree on vegetarianism, less on eugenics, as opposed to in Shaw’s day. That just shows people change their minds.

    Intelligent, or sophisticated, or civilized, people get the benefit of selecting from the great minds of the past, rather than treating them as sources of wisdom to be accepted OR rejected in toto.

    No wonder Christianity and Leftism are so tightly wound together.

    When this nonsense was starting up, some 40 years ago, I knew an econ professor at Hamilton College who, when pressed to denounce someone for holding some trivial opinion on something else (“How can you teach Chomsky’s linguistic theory, he opposes Bakunin’s theory of direct action!”) would close his eyes, nod sagely, and pronounce “In separation is freedom,” as if it were some oracular wisdom. Perhaps it was.

    Colin Wilson was inspired to embark on his intellectual voyage by hearing Shaw’s “Don Juan in Hell” on the radio; other than Vitalism and the idea of the Superman, I don’t think he took on anything else from Shaw, certainly not the socialism.

    Speaking of vitalism, Shaw’s Preface to his Back to Methuselah has, among other gems, an explanation of why ordinary people, not biologists, jumped on the Darwin train (getting rid of the meddlesome Calvinist God) without bothering about evidence; only to discover they had thrown the baby out as well, and now had an empty, meaningless universe. Rather than a return to superstition, Shaw promoted Bergson’s Vitalism. Yes, there was a time when hip, avantgarde people like Shaw and Alan Watts promoted….Intelligent Design!

    I discuss all this in my book, “Mysticism After Modernism: Crowley, Evola, Neville, Watts, Colin Wilson, and Other Populist Gurus” (Manticore, 2020)

    • Replies: @Fox
  55. @Jesse

    As the Brits (and maybe also the Irish”) say, Fintan O’Toole is “quite a piece of work”. His longstanding and ongoing commentary of U., S., and A. (as Borat call us) in general, and on Cheeto Benito particularly, is breathtaking in its cluelessness…and even more breathtaking in O’Tooole’s obliviousness to its awesome depth of cluenessness.

  56. There were indeed some great tunes incorporated within the story however none of them were up to the level of the gems penned by Rogers and Hammerstein : Some enchanted evening, If I loved you, Younger then springtime, etc.

    AJM “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Jonathan Mason
  57. @Kent Nationalist

    Amen Bro. I read the wonderful Father Brown treasures several times over and intend to do so again time permitting.

    AJM

    • Agree: Kent Nationalist
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    , @Anon
  58. BenKenobi says:

    BLM activists often have problems with spelling

    Here in Vancouver at the busy downtown intersection of Granville and Georgia there is often now a couple joggers selling blm merch. I walked past their table the other day and one of the t-shirts said “if you are silent you are the promble.” My morale was lifted.

    • LOL: El Dato
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Mr McKenna
  59. lol. Good. The old commie piece of trash deserves it.

    The Communist Purges can’t come quickly enough. Let ’em all hang out to dry.

    P.S. It was weird movement, wasn’t it, to make a phonetic English spelling system? Teddy Roosevelt was on board with it, IIRC, so it seems to be a creature of its time.

    • Replies: @David
  60. A recent biographer, Fintan O’Toole, argues that Shaw’s pro-eugenics polemics were so over the top that they were actually Swiftian satires.

    I can’t be bothered to read this article since it’s behind a free-trial firewall. but did anyone in it mention that on at least one occasion Shaw’s eugenic ideas actually promoted racial mixing?

    To my knowledge, Shaw was the first major public figure to openly advocate the possibility that racial mixing might produce a superior breed. I don’t know if he highlighted this eugenic idea often or merely mentioned it in one of his many writings, but he did claim it on at least one occasion.

  61. El Dato says:
    @utu

    He probably wasn’t a fan of “Tintin in the Land of the Soviets”

    Even nowadays, one encounters well-fed persons who will tell you in apoplectic rage that that particular low artwork reeks of “base anti-communism”. Well … yeah.

  62. El Dato says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    But isn’t this due to the young & vigorous immigrants who don’t easily die of COVID-19?

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  63. @Authenticjazzman

    I am reading a collection of Lord Peter Wimsey stories that I had not seen before.

  64. @Bardon Kaldian

    I would have watched them; I can tell you that.

  65. Anon[229] • Disclaimer says:

    Colleges are perfectly free to cancel all the white males, and not bother to study all the knowledge white males have created/discovered. Students can then study whoever’s left.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    That’s right, you can study all those discoveries and advances made by women, blacks, Asians, and Hispanics. Your curriculum will be almost empty except for a bit a literature written by women who are white and either British or American.

    Seriously, take white male knowledge out the curriculum, and you’ll have almost nothing left. Just try to do it as an intellectual exercise and colleges courses will vanish utterly.

    People who complain about what colleges offer should not be allowed into colleges. If they don’t want to be exposed to white thought, that’s fine. All those stupid blacks only going to college hoping to get a human resources job don’t want to study white male thought anyway because it’s too hard for their low-IQ brains. They’re just trying to get through college with wymen’s and black studies courses grade on a curve because that’s all they want to do. It’s the equivalent of football players who take basket-weaving.

    When minorities go to college, they pick their own courses. If their complain about the content, that’s their fault. They chose it. If they’re offended that all the smart stuff was thought up by white men, their egos need taking down a notch.

    In the Renaissance, Europeans didn’t waste their time bitching and moaning that all the knowledge they were learning was created by the Greeks and Romans. They admired the Greeks and Romans for being innovative. Europeans were eager to learn what these other cultures created.

    This is why minority cultures are self-destructive. They get profoundly butthurt if they have to learn anything besides themselves. They should be left to fail.

  66. @theMann

    He was a real charmer.

    Q: If the eugenicist Shaw gets cancelled, what price William Henry Gates III?

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  67. Element59 says:

    All of this hysterical cancel culture activism comes from a deep-seated place of fear, a moral fear of the truth being that human behavior, intelligence, and race are in fact biological – and that cannot be, indeed it must not be true. Cancelled.

  68. Anon[229] • Disclaimer says:

    It wasn’t Shaw’s plays that made him famous. He was famous as a music/drama critic even before he wrote the plays. And he had won a name as a political commentator in The Star even before he became a music/drama critic. Shaw was famous as a public gadfly before he ever became a playwright.

    The reason his plays succeeded is because as a known public figure, he drew enough of an audience that his plays weren’t financial failures right from the start, as is often the lot of other playwrights, and which usually ends their career right there.

    Shaws’s plays are indeed overrated, but the audience of the very late 1800s and early 1900s had developed a powerful taste for moderism. As an example, let me reference George Orwell. Orwell once said that he and his schoolmates read H. G. Wells and Jules Verne like crazy, because having been raised in the stultifying Victorian world, they were starved for a vision of a future by writers utterly confident that the future wouldn’t be anything like that. There were vast numbers of people sick of Victorian culture near the end of Victoria’s reign, and Shaw became famous and wealthy by catering to their tastes.

  69. @Anonymous

    Regarding the quote from Orwell:

    Offhand, the only English writers I can think of who, before the days of Hitler, made a definite effort to stick up for Jews are Dickens and Charles Reade.

    I don’t know about Reade but two of the most authentically nasty Jews in English literature, Fagin in “Oliver Twist” and Quilp in “The Old Curiosity Shop”, are drawn directly from Dickens’s accurate observations of contemporary London. I understand that he was taken to task for this accuracy and “made amends” with various minor Jewish characters, e.g., the peripatetic seamstress in “David Copperfield”.

  70. anon[220] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dumbo

    I actually prefer Pygmalion

    Pygmalion is a blank slatist work, arguably showing off Shaw’s own cognitive dissonance.

    The left was very much in love with eugenics at that time.

    They farking loved Science. Then.

    It’s only since the 60s that they turned to dysgenics with a passion.

    Because eugenics involves genes, and not all genes are equal, and unequal genes utter demolish the Blank Slate that libtards literally worship.

    Wokism has to be deadly opposed to eugenics, partly because so many Woke are products of dysgenic reproduction. Elevating themselves and other members of their freak show to higher and higher levels of authority is an imperative.

    Should end well for all of us.

  71. @Almost Missouri

    French woman who would sleep with anyone as a sort of liberalist religious commitment

    The opposite of a snowflake – and a lady who can write really well and – has an impressive library: Catherine Millet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Millet

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  72. @Almost Missouri

    French woman who would sleep with anyone as a sort of liberalist religious commitment

    The opposite of a snowflake – and a lady who can write really well and – has an impressive library: Catherine Millet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Millet

  73. @tyrone

    Not enough. Galatea means milk white in Greek.

  74. anon[220] • Disclaimer says:
    @BenKenobi

    I would be tempted to buy a shirt that read “if you are silent you are the promble” in order to seal it in a time capsule for future archeologists.

  75. I could never understand Shaw’s reputation. He was a good playwright (I’ve read 4 or 5 of his pieces), but nothing special. His thought, especially “spiritual evolution” (or something similar), was silly; his wit evidently inferior to Oscar Wilde’s. His ideas about man, woman, society … shallow, immature.

    He must have possessed a powerful personality.

    Basically, most English litterati of that period were 2nd rate, with very few exceptions.

  76. @James O'Meara

    For Calvin, salvation depends on the inscrutable will of God,

    But Calvin also held that extra ecclesiam nulla salus, membership in the church is one essential aspect of unearned and undeserved grace. Weber provided an extended commentary on this in “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism”.

    Anyhow, I’ve never had much respect for Calvin, that most perfect synthesis of Gallic and lawyerly intellectual arrogance, who believed that God transcended all except the reasoning of Calvin.

  77. Not Raul says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That’s a devastating critique of Generation Jones.

  78. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder why the media hasn’t discovered the fact that Bill Gates’ dad was a very committed eugenicist, was a card carrying member of the American Eugenicists Society, and the leader of Planned Parenthood at the time, with the goal to significantly decrease the population of India and Africa, which I do believe is still an aim of Bill Gates and his billionaire bridge club.

    Btw, it’s very curious that those who denounce eugenics as pseudoscience don’t seem to realize, or acknowledge that eugenics has a dramatic qualitative effect on their daily lives. Whiteout eugenics, the meat and dairy industry would be priced like caviar, when it could be obtained at all. Most Americans wouldn’t be able to afford it. I guess if we extrapolate to the genetic “improvement” of seeds, our population would be absolutely insupportable without our genetically driven “bad science.”

    The reason progressives are alive with the quality of life they enjoy with an utter lack of gratitude, while spewing their nonsense is absolutely because of the sensibilities, science, and logic of “eugenics.”

    And finally, progressives love their little dachshund videos on YouTube, while conveniently laying aside the fact that America’s addiction to “modifying” dogs, despite the massive pain and suffering of the subjects of their “modifications” is off the table for discussion.

    Meanwhile, Dachshunds all develop painful hip, back, one worse problems, due specifically to their “hot dog” specifications, chihuahua’s are born with holes in their skulls, and bulldogs have a life expectancy of 8 years, while enduring a eugenically derived snout that makes breathing the equivalent to you or I breathing through one straw inserted up our nose. Would the reader want to live like that? If not, then why should a dog, simply to conform to a celebrated breed?

    Try buying an Australian sheep dog puppy, keep him in your one bedroom apartment, and see how long that lasts. It will turn into a nightmare, because the dog was not genetically bred to temperamentally/intellectually cope with it. The experiment would fail, because eugenics works. Eugenics works simply because it’s environmental selection on hyperdrive. With human intervention, we can breed for temperament we can breed for intelligence. Try to give a beagle sheepdog duties. Hook a team of Great Danes to an Alaskan dog sled. The dogs will most likely fail because… eugenics works.

    Anyway, this all begs the question, why are so many liberal, progressive “dog lovers” supporting hardcore designer dog eugenics, with pain and suffering built in, with such passionate devotion that they would appall and disgust the most passionate devotees living on the Island of Dr. Moreau?

    If eugenics is unscientific–or if you agree it IS scientifically sound, but fundamentally immoral, why do you insist on forcing so many animals to suffer through it, so you can have your sick little “fur baby” gasping for air, and yelping from hip pain as it dutifully greets you at the front door?

    Maybe there’s a moral reason you can only get a genetically mutated wretch to give a shit about you?

    Dr. Moreau is looking at you, and… he does not like what he see’s.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  79. anon[335] • Disclaimer says:

    Two observations:

    1. Shaw was a dogmatic Leftist of his day with no subtlety to his politics. If he were alive today he would be Woke and in the Noam Chomsky/Paul Krugman mode. There is some justifiable schadenfreude in seeing him canceled.

    2. Great literature is no longer of any interest to modern people, especially to educated modern people. The only people still earnest about great literature are scattered individuals who are so inclined. It is just as well that this is so. Let the Great Literature of Western Civilization survive among those who will read it, study it, and learn from it without pay or recognition. Those are the only scholars whose opinions matter anyway. Such people only need a forum to communicate with each other unmolested and uncensored (obviously not a university).
    That these people will be few and uncelebrated is of no importance. Only the quality of their opinions is important.

  80. Lace says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I’ve hated every Woody Allen movie I’ve ever seen, including the ‘classics’ like Annie Hall. They’re all false, even when very clever, like Purple Rose of Cairo. The most repulsive is Interiors.

    Joan Didion did a fabulous number on him in New York Review of Books as far back as Manhattan, and called it ‘Letter from ‘Manhattan” as in The New Yorker. She’s not easily fooled, although did once write a defense of Susan Sontag’s odious 9/11 piece (I guess that’s part of the NYRB ‘blood oath’, but it was hateful.)

    Heard him speak at Town Hall a month after 9/11. He was disgusting, and said things like “Who ca-ahs about Cincinnatti?” Living on the East Side hasn’t helped him become a WASP.

  81. @Dieter Kief

    Thanks. I couldn’t remember her name, and couldn’t think of a search phrase for it that wouldn’t trawl up a bunch of unwelcome porn.

  82. Lace says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    I think The Sound of Music is unbearable, and I’m glad they used Audrey Hepburn and Marni Nixon for My Fair Lady. Julie Andrews was never meant to be a movie star, better on stage. She still resents getting snubbed, and never worked out her ridiculous sexuality of non-spinster/non-Mary Poppins throughout decades of terrible movies.

  83. The Craw says:

    So the Fabian brain bequeathed a Shavian campaign…
    I think I’ve got it!

  84. BB753 says:
    @J.Ross

    “Earlier generations were actually famous for wearing very short shorts, which makes eminent practical sense if you consider that they were often Northern Europeans doing physical work in the Levantine summer.”

    Exposing light skin to the Levantine sun makes little practical sense.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  85. Anonymous[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kent Nationalist

    My money is on Kipling.

    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_copybook.htm

    When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
    They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
    But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
    And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “Stick to the Devil you know.”

  86. MEH 0910 says:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noughts_%2B_Crosses

    Noughts + Crosses is a British drama television series based on the Noughts & Crosses novel series by Malorie Blackman. The series is set in an alternate history where black “Cross” people rule over white “Noughts”. The first episode aired on BBC One on 5 March 2020,[1] and the remaining episodes premiered on BBC iPlayer on the same day.[2]

    ******
    The series takes place in a present day London in an alternate history where 700 years prior several nations in West Africa combined to form the powerful Aprican Empire, and went on to colonise Europe. After a conflict known as the Great World War, control of Europe is split between different African factions, with mainland Europe under control of the Malian Empire and the Moors, whereas Albion (comprising Great Britain and Ireland) and parts of Scandinavia remain under the thumb of the Aprican Empire.[3]

    Russia and The Balkans remain in active conflict with the African colonisers, although since the Great World War their national borders have been pushed back. The Ottoman Empire also exists, controlling parts of East Africa.[3]

    Albion appears to be a self-governing colony with its own Prime Minister and executive leadership, an exclusively Cross police force and a military only just opened up to a small number of Nought high-achievers. However, it is still accountable to the Aprican Empire based on the continent. As of 1950, segregation is rigidly enforced in the colony between those of wealthy African descent (known as Crosses or Daggers) and the poorer native white Europeans (known as Noughts or Blankers).[3]

    ******
    The series was added to the Peacock streaming service in the United States in September 2020.[15]

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @El Dato
  87. Kronos says:
    @Mr McKenna

    I think there’s a major (but unspoken) component to why feminism is so supportive of “blank slate” Behavioralism. Many Boomer yuppies had parents strongly supportive of eugenics or notions of it in all but name. Originally, birth control (and sterilization) were to be reserved for those who were mentally or physically defective like in Supreme Court case Buck v. Bell (1927.)

    Those who were considered high class/high born with high IQs and good physical health weren’t supposed to dabble in population control methods intended for the unfit.

    High IQ chicks were supposed to have as many children as possible. Back in the day the rich and successful had big families while poor families were generally smaller. (Sexual restraint makes sense if you believe in genetics, but not if your a blank-slate environmentalist.)

    The “blank slate” removed that “societal duty” entirely. The same could be said for guys but female reproductive rights are far more legally protected compared to those of men. Behavioral environmentalism supported the idea that low-IQ baby mommas could have children equally able to succeed academically as those with high IQ pedigrees. So high ability women (and men) could marry/reproduce with anyone they wanted. Or, not need to reproduce at all.

    It’s only whispered now, but historically families well understood who you reproduced with had consequences. You often had Eugenicist-minded families (often grandmothers) try to dig up dirt on potential matches especially in regards to mental illness.

    But after the 1960s, that collapsed rather quickly. (With the major exception to if a potential match had money or not.) I wonder if the rise in learning disabilities among the upper classes is partially due to the “love is love” Oprah meme? That a high IQ male doctor marries a low-IQ (but hot) stripper and the resulting kids have skewed IQ genes. “Sarah can’t read, but her visual/spatial ability around stripper poles is in the 87th percentile!”

    • Replies: @S
    , @Mr McKenna
  88. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:

    OT:
    Here’s a portrait of a Portland BLM protester. Came across this paragraph in an article on the severity of the smoke in Oregon.

    In Portland, 23-year-old Blazedol Howard wore a respirator mask over his face as he walked through the deserted streets downtown to get breakfast at a 7-Eleven. He said he had recently flown into the city from Indiana to march in Black Lives Matter protests and could smell the smoke during the plane’s descent. As he stepped out of the airport, the air felt suffocating.

    “I felt like I couldn’t breathe,” he said.

    Googling this unique name, I only found one entry for him He resigned from a janitorial job (sweeper) at an Indiana middle school last year.
    How does a sweeper afford plane tickets to Portland?

  89. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Do you mean Richard Rodgers? Whose better work was earlier, with Lorenz Hart?

    [no credentials necessary]

  90. 216 says:

  91. sayless says:

    Hmn.

    Well after reading Shaw’s letter, a suggestion for Mr. Unz. How about a reaction option after Thanks, for I Spit?

  92. OT: medical advances have cut down the present murder rate to about 1/5 of what it would have been 40 years ago, according to NIH report

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124155/

  93. @James N. Kennett

    Some time around 1900, British society underwent a fundamental change: previously, the number of children who survived into adulthood was larger for wealthy people than for the poor. At least in terms of wealth and class, the default condition of society was eugenic. After 1900 this was reversed. As prosperity increased, with concomitant improvements in sanitation, society became dysgenic by default, and it has been that way ever since.

    Yes, indeed. In the period from 1900 to 1946 when streptomycin was invented and marketed, there was a huge drop in the number of TB deaths in Britain, presumably due to social distancing and hygiene laws.

  94. @PiltdownMan

    Me too, I guess, although even in my teens I preferred Orwell to Shaw. I agree about Shaw’s plays. They seemed to me to be extremely long winded and improbable. For the most part they did not convert well into films, so perhaps it is not a surprise that the most successful film version was a musical. As a play Pygmalion is tiresome and the problem is that Higgin’s basic premise is absurd.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  95. BB753 says:
    @MEH 0910

    I get it, it’s a cross between alternative history fantasy and resentment porn!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_history

  96. El Dato says:

    OT: A Chardonnay Liberalette (Diana Bruk, a Russian-American journalist living in New York, who has written for The New York Times, The Paris Review, Cosmopolitan, Esquire and Elle, amongst other publications.) suffering under extreme normalcy bias doesn’t realize it’s getting Makarov o’clock, makes a heartfelt appeal for SJW to please stop driving people to Trump with their social media posts 😂.

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500391-trump-election-left-extreme-behavior/

    One of my issues with social activism has always been that it centers around an idea and doesn’t take basic human psychology into account [that’s often the case when you deal with psychos, baby]. I understand that racism in America exists and should be eradicated. I understand and agree with the fact that there should be more people of color in white collar positions. I also understand that white, working-class people have families to feed and bills to pay, and that the only natural response to being fired and replaced by a person of color is to vote for Trump as a means of revenge.

    I’m ashamed [?] to say I’ve had to fight off the same thoughts in the last few weeks. I’m white and well-educated, so, by Liberal standards, I’m automatically privileged. But I don’t have family money to fall back on, and need and want to work. I used to get a decent amount of assignments and opportunities from a Facebook group for female writers, but, lately, every post says “BIPOC writers only.” Theoretically, I’m all for it. [!] If I were lounging around daddy’s pool posting socially aware updates all day, I’d be even more for it. But I’m not and I also need to eat.

    Recognize that posting hateful comments on the walls of people whose opinions differ from yours is cyber-bullying, which you are purportedly against. Recognize that hating on people who are having anxiety attacks over wearing masks and the general situation means bullying people with mental health issues, which you are also purportedly against. And recognize that if you are going to make large swaths of people feel attacked by Democrats, you are pushing them right into Trump’s stiff, unstable embrace.

    The only thing that comes to mind is Marie Antoinette

  97. Franz says:

    Too many people to GBS’s advice:

    “You see things as they are and ask why.

    I see things as they might be and ask why not?”

    (Dialogue between Eve and the serpent in “Back to Methuselah”.)

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @Dan Hayes
  98. @Jonathan Mason

    It’s not absurd. People associate, rightly or wrongly, intelligence with accent, and wealth too. Slurring of Southerners as inbred morons is implicit in having a character have a Southern accent in US film,

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  99. El Dato says:
    @MEH 0910

    Is there a name of the trope “When Blacks are involved in playing Top Dogg, Asians don’t exist”?

  100. Anon[229] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Skidmore students demand art professor get fired for watching a Blue Lives Matter rally for 20 minutes.

    https://reason.com/2020/09/11/skidmore-college-david-petrson-students-cop-rally-cancel/

    https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Churchill-At-Skidmore-curiosity-might-get-you-15553968.php#photo-19749884

    http://skidmorenews.com/new-blog/2020/8/31/opinion-the-petersons-amp-blue-lives-matter-students-reveal-a-pattern-of-racism-among-skidmore-faculty-and-staff

    Very Orwellian. This is Salem Witch Trials stuff.

    Colleges better start getting smart and forcing students to sign a legal form stating they will not launch attacks against professors, or the student will be expelled immediately with no tuition reinbursement. That’s shut the little snots up.

    • Agree: sayless
    • Replies: @Fox
  101. Anon[381] • Disclaimer says:

    Ron Unz’s Great Purge of 1940 is going to have an addendum year for 2020 it seems.

  102. Fox says:
    @James O'Meara

    Looks like a book I want to read. I have recently pulled out LeBon’s Crowd, and your book seems to be concerned with similar questions as posed by LeBon: What moves a large number of people in a kind of collective desire or will, and where does it originate.

    • Replies: @anon
  103. S says:
    @Kronos

    It’s only whispered now, but historically families well understood who you reproduced with had consequences. You often had Eugenicist-minded families (often grandmothers) try to dig up dirt on potential matches especially in regards to mental illness.

    The British aristocracy in particular did care about that sort of thing much more in the past. Certain family lines would be known for particular identifying physical characteristics , and be proud of them, ie eye lids which might have a slight droop to them, particular natural hair colorings and textures, etc.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  104. anon[315] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fox

    Gustave le Bon and Edward Bernays are two authors every thinking person must read. It isn’t difficult, either.

    • Replies: @Fox
  105. J.Ross says:
    @BB753

    And less sense in Rhodesia but there you are. Plenty I’ve read from earlier eras mentioning Israelis, from Amichai to Shibumi, mentions the shorts. They were definitely a thing. Not sure how actual modern Israelis feel about them.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
  106. Dan Hayes says:
    @Franz

    Same lines parroted by nitwit Bobby Kennedy in one of his campaign speeches. I wonder which of Kennedy’s “clever” wiseguy speechwriters was advertently responsible for this gem? Richard Garwin?

    • Replies: @anon
  107. Dan Hayes says:
    @Franz

    Same lines parroted by nitwit Bobby Kennedy in one of his campaign speeches. I wonder which of Kennedy’s “clever” wiseguy speechwriters was advertently responsible for this gem? I nominate Richard Garwin!

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @Franz
  108. Dan Hayes says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Correction: it’s Harvard’s Richard Goodwin, not Richard Garwin!

  109. @Anon

    Shaw wrote way too much — he never shut up — so, some of his plays are bound to be drivel. Many are mediocre. Some, like Heartbreak House or Man and Superman, are literally overrated. But the great ones are indeed great. A generous critic would say he wrote about a dozen things that were great. Even a Shaw hater would be forced to admit about half a dozen. That’s not too shabby for any writer. But the really bad stuff does tend to tarnish and confuse his reputation.

    Many of his short one-acts, like The Admirable Bashville or How He Lied to Her Husband, are a scream.

  110. @Kolya Krassotkin

    (I know he would appreciate it.)

    You may well be right, and it’s a fascinating proposition.

  111. @Tono Bungay

    today most Mongoloid fetuses are killed

    And yet in China alone there are a billion of them..

  112. @Kronos

    LOL…well that was one of the more entertaining posts I’ve read recently.

    It is telling that everybody but everybody practices eugenics (of one sort or another) when it comes to creating their own families, but all are properly horrified at the notion that entire societies should follow suit. Just another product of indoctrination.

    Saving that homework pic at any rate.

  113. anon[647] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dan Hayes

    nitwit Bobby Kennedy

    Who? One of the Beatles, maybe?

    • Disagree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  114. MBlanc46 says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Socialist, yes. And in his dotage he did say nice things about Stalin’s Soviet Union. But Marxist? I think that’s a bit too broad an application of “Marxism”.

  115. Dan Hayes says:
    @anon

    The same Bobby Kennedy whom Jimmy Hoffa made a fool of in Congressional testimony!

    • Replies: @anon
  116. @BenKenobi

    Best t-shirt, made in China!!

  117. MEH 0910 says:

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  118. Dan Hayes says:
    @MEH 0910

    I wonder how Sorkin treats his co-coreligionist judge who threw the book at the Chicago 7 in response to their court room shenanigans!

    • Replies: @anon
  119. Anon[639] • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Indeed. Just for nostalgia I’ll watch the BBC’s Father Brown, but it is depressingly woke.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  120. @Anon

    Shaw’s work also performed a necessary public service, in that his cultural reputation preceded him, and he was considered both high-brow and edgy at the same time. This formed the basis for a sort of cultural glue which promoted a certain level of cohesion and agreement, sadly lacking now. Edward Albee’s early work did something similar. It’s like how people thought they were smart if they liked The Larry Sanders Show. It bucked them up, regardless of the show’s real value.

    “Don Juan in Hell” is a wordy snooze, but it was a /respectable/ wordy snooze. And that’s a great title, it makes you feel smart just saying it. When I was growing up, every other year or so a gang of highly competent, mid-reputation actors would do a staged reading of it. Nobody on earth knows what it’s really about, it’s gaseous as all get-out, but it made the perfect pretext for an Event — also cheap and easy to do, with a frisson of DIY garage rock to it. It’s pretty funny, good actors can squeeze a lot of laughs out of it through sheer timing, but it’s bafflegabble, just very eloquent gibberish.

    All the same it had a communitarian value. Sitting through it was one of the coming of age rituals of evil White Supremacy, like listening to Alice’s Restaurant on the radio on Thanksgiving.

  121. Kronos says:
    @S

    Some Spanish aristocrats took it to a whole new level…

    • Thanks: S
  122. @Mr McKenna

    Meanwhile, what’s the issue with eugenics? Seems legit to me.

    Chesterton had the answer to that: smart people resent being told what to do. (Hell, that attitude is all over iSteve. Mea culpa!)

    Various religious groups have had little trouble persuading intelligent, healthy people to breed. Secular philosophies have an equally successful time getting them not to breed.

    Doesn’t seem to matter if that’s their intention, or the opposite.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  123. @Bardon Kaldian

    Stillman seems “to me essentially an inheritor of a genteel Anglo Protestant tradition with its idealism, basically a spiritual descendant of original New Englanders who almost completely forgot his ancestors, but has retained elements of their sensibility (never mind his actual genealogy).

    “Whit” is short for “John Whitney”, as in the man who brought his family to Watertown, Mass., in 1635. Almost all notable Whitneys in America descend from him, though a few come down from Henry Whitney, an early settler of John Derbyshire’s Huntington. (Weyl and Possony labelled the Huntingtons the most illustrious family in US history. I used their method on the Whitneys, and found that they are at best a distant second.)

    Stillman’s father was a Democratic functionary in DC, and Stillman himself has followed in his footsteps, albeit in New York City instead. He just seems too cultured, too sane to be a New York Dem; the Liberal Party would appear to have been his natural home.

    Going by his apparent worldview, that is. I don’t know the details of his political views.

  124. Rex Harrison, as Professor Henry Higgins, was suddenly overcome by the paralyzing realization that … he couldn’t sing.

    Oh, come on. Lerner and Loewe were fully aware of his limitiations, and tailored his songs accordingly. They were expert at such things.

    If Harrison himself didn’t know this until opening night, he was late to the party. Looks more like run-of-the-mill butterflies.

  125. Fox says:
    @anon

    Thanks. Haven’t read anything by Bernays yet, even as I came across his name quite a few times.

  126. Excal says:
    @SFG

    Chesterton and Shaw were indeed great friends. They often needled each other, sometimes in public.

    Chesterton (who was famously a very, very large man): “Mr. Shaw, to look at you, anyone would think there was a famine in England.”

    Shaw: “Gilbert, looking at you, anyone would think you had caused it.”

  127. Fox says:
    @Anon

    Apparently, too easy of a life in the university cradle is leading to mental retardation in much of the studentbody.

  128. anon[360] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Jimmy Hoffa

    Congressman? Football player? One of the Beatles?

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  129. @theMann

    Of course Shaw, like every other Lefty of the time period, was 100% committed to Eugenics, the scientifically proven method to make a better humanity.

    It should be pointed out that was only a short period before WW2 in the West and they had blank slate leftist opposition at the time. Interestingly California was a leader in eugenics during that period.

    The USSR had embraced Lysenko genetics until it turned into a total failure.

    Blank slate leftism basically won out after WW2.

    The left decided that Germanic Whites were the biggest threat to their existence and embraced race denial as part of an anti-White strategy. That was actually closer to the plan of American egalitarians before the eugenic period. The other factor is that the left basically gave up on a voluntary revolution in the West. So they set their sights on South American and Africa. For decades they really believed that Americans, British and Germans would eventually vote in Communists so they didn’t really care about eugenics. So there were no problems with being a leftist and eugenicist.

  130. anon[360] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Chicago 7

    Is that the band with all the trombones?

  131. @Anonymous

    I wonder why the media hasn’t discovered the fact that Bill Gates’ dad was a very committed eugenicist, was a card carrying member of the American Eugenicists Society, and the leader of Planned Parenthood at the time, with the goal to significantly decrease the population of India and Africa, which I do believe is still an aim of Bill Gates and his billionaire bridge club.

    Bill Gates isn’t a eugenicist.

    This is the guy that spend a few hundred million trying to prove the racial gap was basically the fault of teachers.

    Then he quietly went back to funding his malaria vaccine.

    He just wants everyone to have fewer children. Of course this is terrible policy because intelligent people are more likely to be responsible and only have children they can afford. Even worse is that our society encourages intelligent women to get some useless grad degree that they don’t even use in the workplace. There is a huge problem with women getting English and Sociology grad degrees only to find that the private sector doesn’t care and isn’t going to pay off their debt.

    On the upside there was a study that showed how Caucasian skulls were still getting larger. Of course no one is allowed to study if that means anything.

    Regardless I have no doubt that dysgenics have made our racial conflicts worse. Black women on welfare are given cash for babies while college educated Black women are more likely to be single than any other group. Most liberals are too stupid to realize how much their policies actually work against Blacks.

    • Replies: @anon
  132. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anon

    Indeed. Just for nostalgia I’ll watch the BBC’s Father Brown, but it is depressingly woke.

    The 1974 ATV Father Brown TV series with Kenneth More in the title role is available on DVD. Infinitely superior to the later BBC version. And not at all Woke.

  133. duncsbaby says:
    @anon

    How is that a journalist can report on a person flying specifically into a city to “march in BLM protests,” and feel that this is a legitimate vocation? Especially when the forests around said city are on fire and it’s presumably “all hands on deck,” in fighting these fires? I think a guy that worked previously as a janitor may also quite easily be put to work fighting fires.

    Not for him though, he’s lounging around a big American city, “marching in BLM protests” for a few hours at night, then hanging at the 7-11 in the morning. Mayor Wheeler’s got his back.

  134. Won’t somebody please think of the show tunes? Can’t someone throw down the gay card for him?

  135. @Anon

    In the Renaissance, Europeans didn’t waste their time bitching and moaning that all the knowledge they were learning was created by the Greeks and Romans

    Europeans jealous?
    1. What continent is Rome in?
    2. What continent is Greece in?

  136. @Reg Cæsar

    Chesterton had the answer to that

    In my humble estimation, Chesterton had the answer to nearly everything.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  137. Franz says:
    @Dan Hayes

    I wonder which of Kennedy’s “clever” wiseguy speechwriters was advertently responsible for this gem?

    I always thought it was his brother Jack.

    JFK was known as a voracious speed reader who absorbed lots but often forgot which line of text he got from where. He might have thought quote was from scripture and passed it onto Bobby as a Good Thing.

    Odder things happened in those years.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  138. BB753 says:
    @J.Ross

    My very unpopular opinion is that no male over the age of 12 should wear shorts under any circumstance or temperature, and females should not ever wear anything but skirts at any age.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan
  139. @anon

    ” How does a sweeper afford plane tickets to Portland”

    You obviously have never heard or their the leftist crazie’s mentor and bankroller with the initials of : GS

    AJM

  140. @Anon

    Hmmm….

    https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/gwst20/current

    Older Women’s Beauty and Bodily Practices in Two Flemish Retirement Homes
    Ladan Rahbari & Annemerel de Blaere

    The Infertile Body in the Clinic: Medicalization, Gaze, and Loss of Agency in Women’s Infertility Comics
    Sathyaraj Venkatesan & Chinmay Murali

    Can-Go Girls: (Re)Making Neoliberal Ideal Girl Subjects through Round-the-World Travel
    (Brena) Yu-Chen Tai

    Intersecting Identities at the Flip of a Coin: Archie as the Hero of White Teeth
    Sungjin Jang

    Rooted Patriarchy in Bell in Campo: Margaret Cavendish’s Female Warriors between Military Victory and Political Defeat
    Samia Al-Shayban
    ………….

    Or, such an interesting topic as female gaze

    https://www.vulture.com/2018/08/how-do-we-define-the-female-gaze-in-2018.html

    How Do We Define the Female Gaze in 2018?

    Or white gazes

    Black Bodies, White Gazes: The Continuing Significance of Race

    George Yancy
    Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2008

    Black Bodies, White Gazes: The Continuing Significance of Race understands Black embodiment within the context of white hegemony within the context of a racist, anti-Black world. George Yancy examines themes such as double consciousness, invisibility, and corporeal malediction that capture the lived reality of Black bodies under tremendous existential duress. He demonstrates that the Black body is a historically lived text on which whites have inscribed their projections which speak equally forcefully to whites’ own self-conceptions.

  141. David says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Steam powered printing presses really started producing large numbers of books at democratic prices around 1840 and I would guess that they had a similar effect on the availability of newspapers. This profusion of the printed word had a huge impact on literacy rates.

    In 1850, around half of American adults could read and 50 years later it was over 90%.

    Maybe spelling reform was an attempt to solve the “last mile” literacy problem.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @R.G. Camara
  142. @Anon

    British literary scene from the 1890s to the 1920s was simply parochial & imitative. The only people worth reading from that period were imported Americans, Irish or a Pole. Shaw was an Anglo-Irish, but he was too much a man of the day, that is, superficially progressive.

    Rebirth of greatness of British literature came only after aestheticism of Pater & Wilde, while Bennett, Shaw, Kipling, Wells, Galsworthy … and other literary lions of the era are, with very few exceptions, almost all dated. Their world views, ethics, ideas about the future, literary achievement … superficial, childish, wrong or naive. Shaw began as a Wagnerian critic, then juggled with ideas that seemed to be of monumental importance, but turned out to be as flat & rudimentary as a typical DeShawn psyche.

    Perhaps his most important legacy is that Orwell named his main diabolos O’Brien, having in mind a sadistic streak in Shaw, whom Eric Blair considered to be primarily Irish.

  143. anon[210] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Johnson

    Then he quietly went back to funding his malaria vaccine.

    And his polio vaccine?

    https://apnews.com/619efb65b9eeec5650f011b960a152e9

    “UN says new polio outbreak in Sudan caused by oral vaccine”.

  144. Dan Hayes says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Steve probably agrees with your judgement!

  145. Dan Hayes says:
    @Franz

    Another example of JFK the purported demigod?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Franz
  146. anon[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Another example of JFK the purported demigod?

    John Kerry?

  147. anon[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @David

    In 1850, around half of American adults could read and 50 years later it was over 90%.

    Literacy in parts of the US was about 90% by 1820. You might want to check your sources.

    Fenimore Cooper’s book “Last of the Mohicans” was a best seller, the equivalent to #1 on the NYT list today. Ordinary people such as shopkeepers, weavers, etc. read it. Today it’s college level reading.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  148. @Simon Tugmutton

    Do you think Mr. Shaw could have used some elocution lessons to not mumble and be understood without subtitles?

    Just asking.

  149. @anon

    None of those.

    Currently pavement section somewhere in greater Detroit, Michigan.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
  150. @David

    Industrialization made reading more necessary for jobs, hence the climb. It also allowed for more children to go to school, since they weren’t needed on the farm as much.

    As for the spelling push, my weird guess is it had something to do with German.

    19th Century Anglo-American culture was obsessed with Germany; its philosophy, scientific achievement, language, music, art, writings, etc. This has largely been erased from our history, but Germany was equal with England in 19th Century intellectual accomplishment (both tied for #1), and many thought it eclipsed England. This is why the classic mad scientist had German accent—it was assumed to be likely any mind-bending leap in science would come from Germany or Germanic-speaking folks (Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein is a German-speaking Swiss, IIRC).

    The only thing that gave England the edge was it was the largest empire on earth while Germany got started way late on colonization and had very little in comparison. Hence why Hitler’s call for Lebensraum in the 20th century resonated with Germans—the Germans had never had a true German Empire (quibbles about the HRE aside), so the Germans wanted one badly.

    Anyway, many intellectuals tried to or did learn to read German. Mark Twain wrote a semi-humorous essay about trying to learn German and his difficulties. Likely, some English speaker looked at his own language in comparison noticed how difficult learning English was due to weird spellings, and tried to “improve” English through simplified spelling.

    At least that’s my weird theory.

    • Thanks: David
  151. Franz says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Another example of JFK the purported demigod?

    More like “scrambled egghead” as George Wallace used to put it.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  152. anon[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG

    Interesting article and discussion comments which tended toward unwoke.

    It struck me that the Transgender thing is, at the end of the day, simply advocating dressing in drag augmented with cosmetic surgery as a solution to an abstract identity issue. That is, the most superficial possible solution advocated for a problem that can only be described by the most tortured possible post modern gibberish. Showing the naive literalism of those suffering the malady. We have to teach elementry school children the distinction between sex and gender just to justify publicly paying for some tranny’s cosmetic surgery. People saying that they absolutely must do what they just happen to want to do. Obviously I am speaking to the choir here.

    In the comment section, I asked whether he changed his sex or his gender. But it was censored. I suppose it would be correct to say that he had cosmetic surgery to change the appearance of his sexual characteristics (primary and secondary). As opposed to, say, butt implants. But that’s unspeakable.

  153. keypusher says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    This is akin to hiring Richard Geere for Chicago calling for him to dance and sing, of which he could do neither.

    You’re right, but the producers kept Chicago going for decades by stunt-casting Billy Flynn (in other words, by picking men who couldn’t sing or dance). That’s the world we’re in.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  154. keypusher says:
    @Ray P

    See George Floyd. Shaw is indeed a man for our time.

  155. Dan Hayes says:
    @Franz

    Both George Wallace and Jimmy Hoffa had more native intelligence than any of the Kennedys or any of their Ivy League New Frontiersmen!

  156. @anon

    Fenimore Cooper’s book “Last of the Mohicans” was a best seller, the equivalent to #1 on the NYT list today. Ordinary people such as shopkeepers, weavers, etc. read it. Today it’s college level reading.

    Really?! I read it when I was 12 and then I read everything else JFC wrote.

  157. @keypusher

    I found Chicago unwatchable. I gave it half an hour and that was it.

  158. @TomSchmidt

    Yes, but the idea that teaching uneducated people to mimic the speech of the highly educated or aristocratic would change their behavior or social status is absurd.

    That is not the same thing as someone highly educated and intelligent like Margaret Thatcher ditching her original accent Lincolnshire accent so that she could get ahead in politics.

  159. Cato says:
    @theMann

    Only two tenets to any Left Wing system:

    1. Property is fungible. If you have it and I want it, I can take it. If you have it and I don’t want it, I can destroy it. Because I am morally superior to you.
    2. Mankind is, in fact, perfectible, but only by me, because I am morally superior to you.

    Two days after I clicked “Agree”, I find myself thinking that I should have said “Super-agree”. But then, also, the word “left” could be replaced by the word “right”, or even by the words “orthodox” or “secular” or other adjectives. They all want to take it or destroy it. Only the center kinda holds, but where is the center now? “Turning and turning in the widening gyre?”

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