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Gay Liberation Caused AIDS
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With Corporate American stridently celebrating Stonewall Pride on the 50th Anniversary of Gay Lib, it’s interesting to check whether anybody remembers anymore that Gay Liberation caused AIDS, an epidemic which was not centered in backwaters of homophobia, but instead spread from exactly where Gay Lib triumphed: Castro Street, Santa Monica Boulevard, and Christopher Street.

Or does everybody now believe AIDS was the fault of Ronald Reagan (or, for the more hep, Nancy Reagan)?

Let’s try a Google search:

 
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  1. Hail says: • Website

    Google hits for string “allowed AIDS to”:

    Implicated include: “[George H.W. Bush’s] inaction,” “lack of attention from the press,” “failure of the gay community to accept lifestyle changes,” “Reagan allowed AIDS to spread”, “government accountability,” and best of all: “homophobia, white supremacy, and income inequality.”

    [MORE]

    Jonathan Van Ness: George H.W. Bush’s ‘Inaction Allowed AIDS to …
    https://people.com › Politics
    Dec 6, 2018 – His inaction allowed the virus to spread, stigma to grow, and so many vulnerable people in the cold. … People died of HIV / AIDS when George HW Bush left office. … He served our country yes, but his hand guided so many towards HIV & stigma that still lasts today. … In a 1990 speech, Bush …

    Canadian Said to Have Had Key Role in Spread of AIDS – The New …
    https://www.nytimes.com/…/canadian-said-to-have-had-key-role-in-spread-of-aids.html
    Oct 7, 1987 – … lack of attention from the press and the initial failure of the gay community to accept changes in life style allowed AIDS to rage out of control in …

    Limbaugh: AIDS “hasn’t made that jump to the heterosexual community”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2004/06/15/limbaugh-aids…to…/131271
    Jun 15, 2004 – … distorted a remark by syndicated columnist Robert Scheer that “Reagan allowed AIDS to spread,” erroneously accusing Scheer of stating that …

    Comments on An ounce of prevention | The Economist
    https://www.economist.com/node/21576375/comments
    As you note, lack of government accountability allowed AIDS to spread undetected for three decades and undiagnosed for ten more years. Public health …

    128th Annual Meeting (January 2-5, 2014): Local/National …
    https://aha.confex.com/aha/2014/webprogram/Session10352.html
    … scholars detail how homophobia, white supremacy, and income inequality have allowed AIDS to spread. Alternatively, the scholarship on responses to AIDS …

  2. istevefan says:

    , it’s interesting to check whether anybody remembers anymore that Gay Liberation caused AIDS, …

    Well AIDS was originally called GRID.

    Gay-related immune deficiency (GRID) was the original name for a disease currently known as AIDS. GRID was first mentioned in a May 11, 1982 article in the New York Times.[1] In this article, the term “A.I.D.” (Acquired Immunodeficiency Disease) is also mentioned. In the early days of AIDS (i.e., 1982–1985), the terms “gay cancer” and “gay plague” were also used.[2][3][4]

  3. Kronos says:

    What 1960s Movement caused the most deaths?

    Black Power? Gangs,Drugs, etc?

    Women’s Liberation? Abortion? Sacrificing family for career?

    Gay Pride? AIDS (Bad STDs in general?)

    Regardless, the numbers of each are pretty nasty.

  4. Anonymous[170] • Disclaimer says:

    Been nice knowing you. Alas, now that you’ve told the cruel truth, you are toast.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  5. We want our immigrant food handlers to learn how to use our toilets, and how to wash their hands properly after they relieve themselves, because we have understood since the 19th Century the importance of isolating fecal matter to prevent it from getting back into the human body.

    Yet our “enlightened” utopian goofs throw all of this away when they enable fecally oriented gay sexual behavior which reverses generations of real progress in public health.

    • Agree: Kyle
  6. Steve, please don’t jump the shark. You know better than this. AIDS was caused by a great multitude of factors, not gays being able to somewhat live their lives without having to hide in fear of being thrown in jail/fired/etc in the 70s. We were still having sex in the decades prior, FYI. I’d encourage you to read ‘And the Band Played On’ by Randy Shilts, one of the definitive texts on the early days of the AIDS epidemic. The faults of many gay community leaders, bathhouse owners, etc. are laid bare in that book, but it’s far more than just them. The government and medical institutions failed to respond; the media failed to report on the topic, pressure the government for funds, and help deliver public health warnings; blood banks refused to heed warnings from scientists.

    If it had been treated the way Legionnaire’s Disease was a few years prior, the number of victims would have been enormously reduced, but it was essentially allowed to spread unchecked until the mid to late 80s. Gay community activists who put sexual liberation first and protested against bathhouse closure and widespread, direct public health campaigns are certainly to blame as well, but they were also operating from a place of (understandable) deep mistrust towards the government.

    At any rate, AIDS would have spread even if there hadn’t been any gay liberation because of African immigrants and intravenous drug users, in whom the spread of the disease was entirely separate from the gay community rooted in New York and San Francisco in the early 80s. The first cases in many European countries, for example, were in African immigrants. The disease was coming to America and the rest of the world no matter what. The long latent period of the virus (over 5 years on average) and the fact that the world was already quite globalized with constant air travel ensured that.

    Today, AIDS affects several orders of magnitude more people in Africa, which has nothing to do with gay liberation.

  7. @istevefan

    I’ve seen this posted a lot on places like iSteve and its lower IQ counterparts (/pol/, Et. al.). Yes, it was called GRID because they thought it only happened in gay men. A few years later and ‘GRID’ became obsolete because they realized it was the same disease affecting drug users, Africans, haemophiliacs, etc. Nowadays the vast majority of people infected with HIV are not gay men.

  8. doxmenot says:

    From page 131 – 132 of “And the Band Played On” by Randy Shilts, (gay) reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle – “A typical GRID case had sex with 1,100 men in his lifetime…”, from research by the CDC from the mid 1980s.

    Who knew this or reported it? I never heard it from any source – until I read the book.
    (GRID, later HIV – AIDS, Gay related immune disorder.) What I heard in college was that gays who got AIDS or HIV were no more promiscuous than straights.

  9. I seem to recall that leftist intellectuals used to worry about how the modern capitalist society causes “alienation” in human relationships, and they speculated that their programs of social engineering would reverse this situation to allow for healthy human interactions again.

    But then look at what their gay client group does: Gay men engage in alienating sexual encounters with strangers, usually in seedy venues, and usually without bothering to learn names and engage in basic social rituals to become acquainted. They objectify the male body, when heterosexual men allegedly engage in patriarchal oppression when we objectify the female body. And the ones with passports and money travel to impoverished diversitarian countries so that they can exploit the local boys and young men for sex.

    You just don’t hear a peep from leftist thinkers about how gay men’s real behavior shows the dysfunctions of modernity. If anything, they tend to celebrate this degrading spectacle.

    • Replies: @neprof
  10. J.Ross says:

    There’s a flawed documentary which will be dismissed because of its production values and its purpose (discussing fringe theories about AIDS). However, it has must-see interviews with gay men who survived the liberated urban gay scene, talking with humble frankness and no boasting about what was happening. Short expurgated version: the availability of penicillin and the felt triumph of gay liberation meant that men were proudly bugchasing. There was a notion that unrestrained hedonism was downright noble cultural warfare against what Keith Haring would later call “control.” Heteros had this too but were slowed down by chicks.
    It also has a sequence in which free AIDS test sites are far more likely to diagnose if they think the patient is gay, but they cannot “read” gay tells across cultures (the guy says “I’m straight” and then pointedly breaks the fourth wall; the nurse buzzes along contentedly).

    • Replies: @anon19
    , @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  11. @Kronos

    Might as well include the Vietnam War in the list of “1960s Movements” by Americans:

    We sometimes forget how that farce ripped us apart and exacerbated the other insanities to which you (correctly) allude.

    • Agree: JMcG, Hibernian
    • Replies: @anon19
    , @Lucas McCrudy
  12. Kronos says:
    @Anonymous

    Naaa, that would be pretty gay.

  13. Michael S says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    It basically does occur only in gay men. I forget the exact number, but I believe it was something like a black, gay man being 60 times more likely to contract HIV than a white heterosexual man. Remove the black, and it’s still 20 or 30 times more likely.

    Not percent. Times. Gay men have about 95% of the AIDS, with gay black men being about 75% of that.

    I am hardly convinced that the spread of HIV in Africa isn’t also related to homosexual behavior there; it’s just much harder to track.

  14. CCZ says:

    There is always the search the promotes the inverse:

    “How the advent of AIDS advanced gay rights.”

    When AIDS struck, priorities changed, and quickly, from hedonism to survival. And, ironically, the advent of AIDS probably advanced gay rights more than anything else in history.

    “HIV-AIDS changed public perceptions a lot: It showed a more humane side of the community,” says Ed Jackson, director of program development at Canadian AIDS Treatment Information Exchange, and a longtime activist. “It also galvanized gay men into being more active and more visible. It brought people out of the closet.”

    Mr. Jackson said the large number of HIV-positive men, and the often-overlooked contributions of many lesbian women who cared for the sick, forced members of the gay community to interact with the system, instead of living on the margins. In fact, many of the early battles that mobilized the community were about seemingly mundane issues such as the right to visit partners in hospital (people were refused access because they were not considered immediate family, even if they were in long-term relationships), taking time off to be with loved ones who were sick and dying and claiming insurance benefits.

    Gay rights came incrementally as these battles were waged before administrative tribunals and the courts and, in the process, gay and lesbian couples became more mainstream.

    “We went from being marginalized as sick people to being normalized,” Mr. Jackson says. “Along the way, a lot of desires became mainstreamed; we wanted to be like everybody else, which is why you saw a push for things like gay marriage.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/how-the-advent-of-aids-advanced-gay-rights/article20083869/

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @Anonymous
  15. Anon000 says:

    https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-hosts-biggest-ever-gay-121341794.html;_ylt=AwrC1C7dpRhdUTsARjiZmolQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBydDI5cXVuBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg–

    Ukraine hosts biggest ever gay pride parade

    By Natalia Zinets

    KIEV (Reuters) – Ukrainian politicians and foreign diplomats joined thousands marching in a gay pride parade in Kiev on Sunday…

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, a former comedian who took office last month (Jewish Comedian Elected President of Ukraine in Landslide Victory https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1718026/jewish-comedian-elected-president-of-ukraine-in-landslide-victory.html ), has promoted a tolerant culture, saying he stands for all people’s equality and freedom.

    “Our desire is to convey to a majority of people that LGBT is normality,” Eduard, a 17-year-old tattoo artist, told Reuters…

    Under Western-backed leadership, Ukraine’s parliament passed legislation in 2015 to ban discrimination in the workplace as part of a series of laws Ukraine needed to pass to qualify for a visa-free travel agreement with the European Union…

    The government has increased support for LGBT rights since a Western-backed leadership came to power in 2014, but critics say homophobic attitudes remain relatively widespread.

    “homophobic attitudes remain relatively widespread”

    You’d better hide these attitudes lest your new master detects them and quickly makes an example out of you and mercilessly destroys you. Enjoy the globalism, lol, you’re the West’s little bitch now, Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    , @Daniel H
    , @Jake
    , @Clyde
  16. Tiny Duck says:

    Actually Ronald Reagan being a complete scumbag and the white Christian power structure in the 80s caused aids epidemic in the gay community

  17. @doxmenot

    From page 131 – 132 of “And the Band Played On” by Randy Shilts, (gay) reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle – “A typical GRID case had sex with 1,100 men in his lifetime…”, from research by the CDC from the mid 1980s.

    Who knew this or reported it? I never heard it from any source – until I read the book.
    (GRID, later HIV – AIDS, Gay related immune disorder.) What I heard in college was that gays who got AIDS or HIV were no more promiscuous than straights.

    I recall that the common assumption in the 1970s among everyday straight folk in New York City, was that the gay baths and the Christopher Street gay scene were insanely promiscuous. The ’80s band Erasure did a nostalgia song/lament about the pre-AIDS era of gay “free” love.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  18. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Gay liberation did not “cause AIDS” but it certainly did further its spread by orders of magnitude in the US and Europe.

    A corollary is that it may well have stopped what could have been a massive dieoff in sub-Saharan Africa, because without Western intervention and medical technology hurriedly developed because gays were influential and had many resources diverted to AIDS research, the problem there might have quietly spread until a really huge number of SSAs were infected and would die off.

    Whether this was good or bad depends, of course…..

  19. Daniel H says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    the media failed to report on the topic, pressure the government for funds, and help deliver public health warnings

    I was around 82-86 and it seemed to me then, as now, that the media was constantly advocating for government involvement, demanding that more research be done, etc..

    I also remember the efforts of Mayor Ed Koch in New York City to shut down those horrid dens of iniquity – the gay bathhouses – and getting a tsunami of a tantrum from gays who insisted that these sex joints must stay open and only a self-hating, closeted gay homophobe could recommend otherwise. Gays knew that thousands, upon thousands were being infected in these bathhouses but their access to easy, promiscuous sex trumped all other considerations.

    BTW, the very notion of a gay bathouse, where men engage in sexual activity with multiples of other men – one after the other, after the other, after the other…..- in a public setting, is disgusting, revolting. It is degrading. Behaviour unworthy of a human being.

  20. AIDS spread due to causal sex in bath houses in Los Angeles, SF and NY.

  21. newrouter says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    >Today, AIDS affects several orders of magnitude more people in Africa, which has nothing to do with gay liberation.<

    Africa ALWAYS wins.

  22. Let’s not forget the Haitians, who along with gays were thought to be carriers of AIDS, and were thought to have contracted the disease–let’s see now, was it from eating monkeys or having sex with pigs, or perhaps both? Anyway, I remember back at the very beginning of public awareness about AIDS, the following joke:

    Q. What is the worst thing about having AIDS?
    A. Having to tell your mother you had sex with a Haitian!

    When it became clear that AIDS was spread through anal sex and sharing needles, the joking stopped. And the Haitians were exonerated.

  23. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    The new thing around here is signs when you enter a town that say, “Proud To Be Stigma Free”. No one learns.

  24. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Men-who-have-sex-with-men are vastly over represented in HIV infections. Given that they are <3% of the population, it would be surprising if they were the majority.

  25. Looking back, some of us should be kinda pissed off about the whole gAIDS scare.

    Some of us active heterosexuals were so freaked out by the propaganda that we were getting AIDS tests just to make sure everything was all right. Media encouraged us to do so. Now we realize that it was all unnecessary and there was no reason for us to worry — because all we were doing was putting the right parts together, and with reasonable numbers of partners too.

    Thanks for putting a turd in our punchbowl, fags.

    I knew two different homosexual men who died of AIDS. I never knew anybody who even knew someone who knew someone who knew a heterosexual person who got it, much less died of it. It simply didn’t happen, not through sex anyway.

  26. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    NASCAR driver Tim Richmond probably got AIDS from a female prostitute, and there were a couple of other such cases, but they were miniscule in number as opposed to homosexual ones.

  27. Bruno says:

    Is there an affinity between AIDS and gays and Africans other than promiscuity (higher average number of partner of the group and perhaps more anal intercourses ) ?

    Because straight people having more sex doesn’t result individually in high chances of getting aid. So it must be something related to the level of promiscuity of the group.

    I read that in big cities where dating apps are used, number of STD among straight people has soared to gay levels. So my guess it’s that the group promiscuity average, more than medical idiosyncrasies of blacks and gays, causes std.

  28. anon19 says:
    @J.Ross

    Would you be so kind as to tell us what this documentary was called? Sounds interesting.

    • Replies: @Lugash
  29. it’s also causing untreatable STDs.

    new STDs are appearing as well. infections that were barely known, or never detected before 10 or 20 years ago.

    • Replies: @Beliavsky
  30. Alfa158 says:
    @Anon000

    Prediction:
    Next phase will be using Ukraine as a dumping ground for overflow of third world immi-vaders.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  31. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    “Nowadays the vast majority of people infected with HIV are not gay men.”

    yes they are.

    here comes some homo trying to pretend that african men who have sex with other men aren’t gay.

    GTFO. why do we have to deal with these people even here?

    african men who have sex with other men and sex with women too is where 50% of the new infections come from, pretty much. i’ve actually studied this.

  32. anon19 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The worst damage of the “1960’s movements” was immigration “reform”. The 1965 immigration act was and is the true destroyer of America. The Vietnam war has come and gone but demographic changes are permanent. What if America today was still 86% white as it was in 1965?

    • Replies: @Kronos
    , @Craig Nelsen
  33. @istevefan

    Well AIDS was originally called GRID.

    Gives a new twist to the phrase “living off the grid”.

    One of the earliest recognized symptoms was referred to as Gay Bowel Syndrome. Try saying that today.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    , @ken
  34. @Michael S

    Not percent. Times. Gay men have about 95% of the AIDS, with gay black men being about 75% of that.

    You’re chronicling a whole new Great White Hope. Small wonder they keep those stats out of sight.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  35. doxmenot says:
    @Michael S

    The reason AIDS is present in heterosexuals in the third world (but rarely spread heterosexually in the first world) is explained by the poor health of third worlders. A prostitute or client or citizen in the third world is far more likely to have untreated diseases such as syphilis or gonorrhea or other conditions. This makes men and women more susceptible to AIDS transmission in the third world.

    In first world countries men rarely contract AIDS from women in ordinary sex acts. Randy Shilts talks of the rarity of heterosexual transmission of AIDS to men in his book “And the Band Played On”, (published about 1987).

    The MSM and the University, and religious groups are content to hide this information. How many people have heard this thirty years after Shilts’s NYT “bestselling” book?

  36. Wilkey says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Pretty much this. “And the Band Played On” (which served in 1993 as a vanity project for a long list of stars) and “The Normal Heart” (Mark Ruffalo and Jim Parsons) both lay a lot of blame on the government, which was certainly well-deserved. But they also are both pretty blunt about the refusal of many gays to accept the threat was real. They are both well worth watching. Despite the occasional political jab, the story of the first stages of the epidemic is just too fascinating to ignore.

    A big percentage of the most famous people to die from AIDS probably were infected after the disease was a known danger. AIDS was also referred to as 4H disease – for homosexuals, Haitians, heroin addicts and hemophiliacs. So yes, it would have spread absent gay liberation. But anyone who thinks venues that were more tolerated thanks to liberation, like the bathhouses, didn’t serve as accelerants is just fooling themselves.

  37. Daniel H says:
    @Anon000

    Jewish Comedian Elected President of Ukraine in Landslide Victory

    This is not true. It is impossible. Don’t you believe Julia Ioffe? She will assure you that the pogrom was nipping at her and her family’s heels when they boarded that plane to DC (the plane was supposed to go to Tel Avis, wasn’t it? I mean all the political and emotional capital spent on the refuseniks was due to their sincere desire to make aliyah.) and those that didn’t make it onto the flight were all consumed. There are no Jews in the former Soviet Union, and even if there are some, they are doing miserably, and even if they are not doing miserably and are billionaires they must put up with false charges that they made their fortunes swindling state assets, and all the Ukranians and Russians hate Jews, and, and, and. Just believe Julia Ioffe, OK.

  38. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    It is true that AIDS has nothing to do with homosexuality per se. But AIDS is associated with promiscuity. I’ve read a good bit of the Randy Shilts book, and some of the scenes described are almost beyond belief in their depravity. Now, many gay men pair off and live long lives and bully for them. But when older gay men reflect on how 8 of the 10 guys in this photo from Fire Island in 1980 are dead from AIDS, there’s a reason for it.

    While there are promiscuous heterosexuals, it just isn’t part of hetero culture the way it is for gay men. Anonymous sex with multiple partners just isn’t as common. Heteros do not have glory holes, they do not host circuit parties, they do not cruise, they do not wander into the ramble in Central Park or the dunes of Fire Island looking for literally anyone to have sex with. There are no straight bug chasers. There are no straight bath houses or secret library bathrooms or whatever where straight people hook up. What Steve is saying is that this culture was de-stigmatized and even celebrated and this led directly to a much higher rate of AIDS among gay men. Not to mention the fact that gay men have a much higher rate of virtually every other STD.

    Studies of AIDS in Africa had to be redone because researchers realized that they couldn’t just focus on male promiscuity; the women were also extremely promiscuous ( also, there are more ‘men who have sex with men’ who do not identify as gay in Africa). AIDS transmission is related to culture or lifestyle. Drug addicts have a culture, too, that lends itself to AIDS transmission.

    It’s not coincidence that closing down the wrecks in the Hudson River near the Village and the bathhouses and a massive PR campaign encouraging gay men to be more responsible in their behavior led to a decrease in the rate of transmission. From the beginning of the PR campaign, another message was that this was not just a gay man’s disease and that anyone could get it, Beckys and Chads in the suburbs would be infected in the 1,000s any day now. But that never happened, did it?

  39. Precious says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Today, AIDS affects several orders of magnitude more people in Africa, which has nothing to do with gay liberation.

    Most of your post is just making excuses, but this is flat out wrong.

    The testing for AIDS in Africa is a joke. Africans know that if they tell Westerners that they have a lot of malaria cases, they get a small trickle of money. But if they tell Westerners they have a lot of AIDS cases, then lots of money gets sent. So they have AIDS instead of the hundreds of other diseases that have been prevalent in Africa since time immemorial.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Old fogey
    , @Rosie
  40. @Reg Cæsar

    One of the earliest recognized symptoms was referred to as Gay Bowel Syndrome. Try saying that today.

    They’re saying it today, only quietly and with another motive. Ever notice all the commercials for new scrips and OTC remedies for all sorts of bowel disorders all the way out to a slew of HepC drugs being pushed out? The fisting/anal sex/glory-hole disorders are showing themselves in all sorts of ways, not the least being commercial, especially with women as frequent targets of the advertising for such ‘remedies’.

    Reagan was responsible for AIDS only in that he didn’t outlaw gay bathhouses and orgies and double down on public health announcements telling the truth of these activities.

  41. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Beckys and Chads in the suburbs would be infected in the 1,000s any day now. But that never happened, did it?

    What DID take place was/is a result of rampant bisexuality.

  42. @Buzz Mohawk

    I never knew anybody who even knew someone who knew someone who knew a heterosexual person who got it

    Oh, come on. I’m sure you’re within four degrees of separation of Isaac Asimov, Arthur Ashe, or Tom Fogerty.

    It simply didn’t happen, not through sex anyway.

    Well, okay, a valid qualifier. These guys got it from another variety of penetration.

  43. Coag says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Legionnaires disease? Are you kidding me? That was spread through the air conditioning. How can that even be a comparison?

    AIDS was largely spread through sexual promiscuity and IV drug use. I’m pretty sure the Reaganites were on message against both those things throughout the 80s.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  44. anon19 says:
    @doxmenot

    Gays (in general) are vastly more promiscuous then straights. It is not a difference in degree. It is a difference in kind. The very nature of the gay lifestyle makes it so. I recall once reading a study that the average gay man had had 200 sexual partners by the age of forty.

    However this wanton behaviour is (generally) not true of Lesbians. They tend to be the opposite.

    • Replies: @cthulhu
    , @Jim Don Bob
  45. @Wilkey

    But anyone who thinks venues that were more tolerated thanks to liberation, like the bathhouses, didn’t serve as accelerants is just fooling themselves.

    I often wondered after the AIDS thing got rolling how many of the hundreds of thousands of sailors aboard the carriers and other ships that visited African continent cities and countries from Alexandria to Tunis and Senegal in the 70s and 80s for tattoos and sex contributed to the problem once back home. That factor ouldn’t have helped but introduce/spread the disease, especially to the wives and girlfriends..

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @JMcG
    , @Carol
  46. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    From the beginning of the PR campaign, another message was that this was not just a gay man’s disease and that anyone could get it, Beckys and Chads in the suburbs would be infected in the 1,000s any day now. But that never happened, did it?

    Shilts himself said that this “never made any sense”.

    Before it was the “anally injected death sentence” seen on countless restroom stall walls, it was “anyone interested in deviant sodomy?”

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  47. El Dato says:
    @Daniel H

    I was around 82-86 and it seemed to me then, as now, that the media was constantly advocating for government involvement, demanding that more research be done, etc..

    Yup, once it started it didn’t stop.

    Quite scary too as no-one knew anything and maybe they were hiding easy transmission?

    BTW, the very notion of a gay bathouse, where men engage in sexual activity with multiples of other men – one after the other, after the other, after the other…..- in a public setting, is disgusting, revolting. It is degrading. Behaviour unworthy of a human being.

    drugs & sex are prime directives for some.

  48. Mr. Anon says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Actually Ronald Reagan being a complete scumbag and the white Christian power structure in the 80s caused aids epidemic in the gay community

    Yes, Tiny, I well remember Ed Meese and Jerry Falwell sneaking, Ninja-like, into the bath houses of New York City and Frisco, and injecting homosexuals with hypodermic needles full of AIDS-juice. Sometimes Robert Schuller and Billy Graham would join them in their murderous antics. When they weren’t forcing Margaret Atwood to wear a red robe and brood-mare little evangelical babies into the World, that is.

    Truly, it was a dark, dark time.

  49. heteros still continue to get HIV – hetero women that is. by the CDC’s own numbers, thousands of women are getting HIV every year. they get it by having sex with a bisexual man, who got HIV from another man.

    since HIV transmission is almost always only one way, from man to woman, hetero women are always in some small danger of getting HIV.

    who doesn’t get HIV? hetero men.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
    , @AnotherDad
  50. On the plus side, the subways this weekend in New York worked. Gay Pride makes the trains run on time.

    For about the last eight years or more, subway service in New York on weekends is subject to confusing and maddening restrictions due to ever constant “repair” that is never done or improved. I had several errands to run this weekend and with great reservation checked the MTA Weekender App to see what lines would be shut down. But lo!, like a gift from God On High… ALL LINES WERE FULLY OPERATIONAL THIS WEEKEND IN HONOR OF PRIDE WEEKEND. I was ecstatic. I’m sure MTA workers were being paid double time in order to work the Gay Pride holiday, but who cares.

    I would accept a “Gay Pride Century” if it meant the subway was half way functional on a weekend. I am a man of humble needs.

    Speaking of The Gay, Diana Ross concert in Central Park. Near the end of the clip, Ms. Ross cajoles the various hooligans that invaded Central Park and were mugging her poor fans. This would not happen today. Somethings have improved. This should be acknowledged.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXWDwVY-270

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @BenKenobi
    , @CCZ
  51. @Charles_Martel

    Q. What is the worst thing about having AIDS?
    A. Having to tell your mother you had sex with a Haitian!

    There were a slew of them. One of the all-time greats:
    Q: What do you call a queer in a wheelchair?
    A: Roll-AIDS.

  52. Lugash says:
    @anon19

    Probably ‘House of Numbers’. It’s on Youtube in various forms. Parts are interesting, but it’s HIV science denialist crap overall.

  53. Nick Diaz says:

    Steve Sailer:

    “Gay Liberation Caused AIDS”

    First of all, you couldn’t care less about the lives of gay men. That is just an excuse from you to jusitify keeping gay men forcefully in the closet so as to not get in the way of your ideal Society of married straight people with kids. *That* is what you really care about.

    Secondly, even if your intention of saving the lives of gay men were genuine(it is not), this is your solution? To baby sit adults and tell them what they can and cannot do with their own lives? Brilliant solution, Sailer. Let’s extend your argument. People getting drunk and crashing cars? Either Prohibition or outlawing cars. People dying of drug overdoses? War on drugs. Oh wait, you conservatives already got that for 40 years, and the results are stellar. Not only do people continue to die of drug overdoses, but now we have massive corruption of government agencies, a huge and costly government bureaucracy, prisons full of people at tax payer expensve, and more drugs than ever keep pouring in. People dying of obesity? Let’s outlaw cheetos. Or better yet, let’s outlaw food altogether since then the problem will be solved for sure. Young men wasting too much of their time and lives masturbating to porn? Outlaw porn, and have them rape women instead. Prostitution spreading infections? Oh way, just outlaw it and have millions of men die as virgins. I mean, only a few thousand will blow up their schools and go on killing sprees, and that’s a small price to pay to prevent the spread of clamidea even though just using condoms is far more effective, but conservatives know better with their idiotic moral prejudices!

    ‘Gay liberation caused AIDS.” What a lying, moronic, stupid statement.

  54. dvorak says:

    Gay privilege meant that instead of inexpensive quarantine measures, we had to spend $1 trillion and counting on AIDS research and treatment. To this day, the NIH privileges AIDS-related research at every level. (Scientists (grant-chasers) will, in 2019, set aside a lung cancer line of research to pursue the AIDS line of research).

    Pure privilege.

    • Agree: Dtbb, Macumazahn
  55. Mr. Anon says:

    It is now being said that the Stonewall Inn was raided, at least in part, becuase it served alcohol to minors. I guess that was a twofer for the owners: they got business from the minors who showed up to drink, and from the homosexual men who showed up for the minors.

    And yet we are assured t0day that it was all very innocent and wholesome.

    • Replies: @Anon
  56. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Four paragraphs without stating that when AIDS is transmitted sexually it is exclusive to anal intercourse. That would have been a fine public service announcement in 1985, but it is still a subject that can’t be mentioned.

    • Replies: @Carol
    , @Feryl
    , @orionyx
  57. @Reg Cæsar

    Before it was the “anally injected death sentence” seen on countless restroom stall walls, it was “anyone interested in deviant sodomy?”

    There is a particularly deviant segment, I forget the numbers, but not by any means insignificant, of gay men who think there is something sacred in being infected with HIV and then going about trying to make that happen. They had a catchy name for such idiots, forget THAT too. Some of these depraved characters even declare they ‘knew’ the instant of their infection. Liz Warren now likes to talk of gay reparations but I think they’ve already had their full share given the expense imposed saving their lives. Correct me if I’m wrong, but was not HIV/AIDS research the leading money-grabber ahead of lots of diseases if not all for many years? Regardless, it was plenty. And so I’d say Gays already had their bite at the reparations apple, no?

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  58. I’m an old guy who lived in NYC during the late ‘70s and ‘80s and who hung out in the media and arts worlds — in other words, I lived in AIDS central. I also did a fair amount of reporting about the AIDS crisis for the magazine I worked for. I talked to doctors, researchers, and political people. I had many, many gay friends, some of whom were older (and from whom I learned a lot about what gay life in NYC was like before Gay Lib), and some of whom died of AIDS.

    A few of the things I learned:

    Anal sex wasn’t that common back in the pre Gay Lib days. Pre Gay Lib, gay guys mostly blew each other or jerked each other off. Some of the older gays I knew found gay anal sex distasteful and had never, ever had it.

    Unprotected buttfucking and wildly promiscuous sex were symbolically very important to the GayLib movement. It was part of the whole go-wild, liberation, revolutionary, bad-is-good and good-is-bad ethos of the time. Buttfucking and promiscuity were seen as, no fooling, Civil Rights matters (first struggles, then triumphs) by political gays. Put that drive together with the massive amount of drugs that were around and the result was a lot of incredibly crazy behavior.

    Even before HIV arrived, the ultra-partying gay crowd in the late ‘70s was already riddled with a lot of illness, which is part of what made them vulnerable to the HIV virus (which, contrary to what many of us have been told, is generally pretty hard to pass along).

    When scary cancers and unusual infections started cropping up, it took docs and scientists a little while to puzzle things out but pretty soon it was perfectly well understood that unprotected, promiscuous gay buttfucking was the main driver behind the spread of HIV/AIDS.

    The political gays were terrified of two things: 1) that straight mainstream America would turn on them; and 2) that the illness would be dealt with as a typical epidemic. They wanted the p-r benefits of screaming “epidemic,” yes — but they really, really didn’t want infected gays placed in quarantine, which of course would have ended the epidemic within a couple of years. They wanted the whole concept of quarantine to be undiscussable. And they also didn’t want to give up what they saw as their just-recently acquired civil right to promiscuous buttfucking. They weren’t gonna budge on that. So they launched the Safe Sex crusade.

    The strategy of the Safe Sex campaign was: In order to get funding and action and deflect criticism, scare the straights, even though (as Michael Fumento showed) straight America was never going to be much impacted by HIV/AIDS (not promiscuous enough); and in order to maintain the “right” to promiscuity and buttfucking while doing something to moderate the spread of HIV, urge gays to use condoms. The idea that gay guys who were doing a lot of promiscuous buttfucking were being major public health menaces was never to be permitted. Despite the fact that sex is a voluntary act, gays were to be seen as victims only. Life was to go on as it always had, only with condoms, a lot of screaming at the government, and (with luck) eventually some medical advances.

    The political gays who drove the Safe Sex response to the HIV/AIDS crisis were, in other words, responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths — the crazy but brilliant gay playwright Larry Kramer often made this point — as well as for scaring millions of straight people unnecessarily silly about *their* sex lives.

    Much more, and many graphic details, are in this posting from my old blog:

    http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2007/02/aids_and_immune.html

  59. @doxmenot

    “The reason AIDS is present in heterosexuals in the third world (but rarely spread heterosexually in the first world) is explained by the poor health of third worlders.”

    that’s part of it. but the main part is that HIV rates track sex rates pretty well. homos have the most sex, they collect most of the HIV. africans have the most sex, they collect most of the HIV. african men who have sex with men are the people who have the most sex of all, and well, there you go. highest HIV rate.

    east asians have the least amount of sex, and have very low STD transmission rates. dirt poor people in south asia and southeast asia don’t have nearly the HIV rate of africans. or the murder rate. hmm.

    i’d say it’s a pretty good bet that very high HIV rates in africa…are from african men having sex with anything that moves. other men, women, all get HIV from these guys. nobody wants to go there or talk about that, but that’s probably the biggest factor. a lot of them have so much sex it’s hard to comprehend for first worlders.

    this is not the only thing that’s going on, but like the murder rate, that’s the biggest factor going on. wherever the africans go, the HIV and murder rate follow. it’s pretty reliable. doesn’t have to be a third would country. africans in first world countries exhibit all these trends.

  60. cthulhu says:
    @anon19

    However this wanton behaviour is (generally) not true of Lesbians. They tend to be the opposite.

    Yeah, look up the term “lesbian bed death”.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
  61. gcochran says:
    @Half Canadian

    They are, though. In the US, ~55% of cases

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
  62. Anonymous[771] • Disclaimer says:

    In the UK, BBC TV news is *absolutely obsessed* with marking the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots. It has been a leading news item for at least a week – that and the women’s soccer.
    Curiously, Stonewall has or had very very little to do with legislative attitudes toward homosexuality in the UK.
    It’s also noteworthy that the BBC is more or less completely ignoring the 50th anniversary of the Apollo moon landing, which is fast approaching.

  63. Anonymous[771] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfa158

    They wouldn’t go there: No welfare state.

  64. Guys, guys. There’s a real finger/moon situation developing on this thread.

    The historiography of the tragic AIDS pandemic can be debated at length by historians and scholars (hopefully, less so by activists), and thankfully the entire disaster is far more under control than it was in the 80s and 90s. That is not the point.

    The massive problem which confronts us right now, today, and frankly it is a terrifying one, is not the public health issue but the public information issue. What Steve is really pointing out here is the level of totalitarian control over public consciousness now held by Google. And of course the other tech Cthulhus.

    In stark contrast to a vigorous scholarly debate about the nature of the AIDS epidemic, 30 years from now when scholars ought to be debating the history of how the American people entirely lost control over their own public sphere and their own public discourse, the debate won’t even be /possible/ at that point, because all the information choke points by then will have been hermetically sealed by the Silicon Left pan-dictatorship. THAT is the AIDS-level crisis of our time. THAT is where the government fails to act, where awareness fails to be raised, where the “bathhouses” aren’t shut down.

    In an honest world, Google would rename itself Galactus. Hell, they probably will.

    • Replies: @DuanDiRen
    , @guest
    , @vinteuil
  65. Dumbo says:
    @Michael S

    I’ve read once that the AIDS numbers in Africa were all fake and created mostly to get more money from the West with a disease that was “popular” among celebrities at the time. But most were really dying of other diseases.

    I think it makes sense, because now we hear less about the problem of AIDS in Africa and we hear about other things such as Ebola, etc.

    That said, I think that AIDS was mostly related to gay sex, drug use, and general unhealthy lifestyles. I’m not even convinced that HIV is the main culprit, there are a few other theories.

  66. @Paleo Retiree

    Your blog name is a perfect pun to this post.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  67. doxmenot says:
    @Wilkey

    The movie “And the Band Played On” was a propaganda piece.

    The book was, intentional or not, a long slog, making it difficult to “see the trees for the forest”, (reversing the phrase).

    Shilts told the truth but hid the truth in the book. The movie was useless. Tim Richmond may have contracted AIDS from intravenous drug injections. He was a drug user. A healthy heterosexual man getting AIDS from even an HIV positive woman through vaginal sex or a bj is practically unknown. “If you don’t have a sore, you won’t get it thru heterosexual contact.” Magic Johnson had sex with trans women and probably men. (But it doesn’t pay for one to be complacent and take risks.)

    The powers that be have kept us in the dark. Shows their power.

  68. @Wilkey

    Both the book and its adaptation affirm the debauchery was indeed the problem. This scene has a good mix of the downright self-destructive patrons, the willfully ignorant enabler running the place, the condescending Jewess who wants to feign interest for appearances’ sake but not actually do anything (for politics’ sake), and the disinterested, horrified man with a practical bent too baffled by it all to even be effective. (Where can he even begin to sort out the shit-show he is confronting him at every turn? He is hopelessly trying to get a city full of bonobos to stop schtupping each other long enough for him to explain the rudimentary epidemiology to them they should have learned in their fifth-grade health classes….)

    The idea it was all about the Evil Apathetic Gubmint is a kind of projected value, made even worse now than it was at the time.

    That phenomenon of projection is common. A major analogue now is the adults on the planet saying “There are too many people and not enough resources for them; misery and destruction are accelerating – the savages must stop having ten children per couple!” with the stupid masses selectively hearing and projecting into it their own agenda. (“Hear, hear! Exactly right! We need to recycle more; use solar power; and let all the starving people into Europe, Australia, and North America, because those three continents have magically inexhaustible resources….”)

    Likewise here. The book’s point was “These people all acted irresponsibly, then went on doing so even as the chickens were coming home to roost, exacerbating the problem exponentially.” But it became in the popular (stupid) mindset “Look how the government, whose job it is to solve all the problems in the world, let one happen – obvi its because they are bigoted against homosexual men, whom everyone knows are paragons of virtue, self-control, and responsibility! This book and film totes called The Man to account!”

  69. Veracitor says:

    Gay liberation led to AIDS, then…

    AIDS led directly to gay marriage.

    The chief motivation for the gay marriage movement which arose in the 1980’s was to enable AIDS sufferers to tap the employment-based health insurance policies of their homosexual partners. This was a serious thing. Gay men with AIDS would get too sick to work and lose their own health insurance, then they would be too poor to afford all the costly medical care they needed. They looked around and saw that when straight husbands or wives got too sick to work they would often remain insured under their spouses’ plans. The gays wanted the same arrangement.

    At first this was the main organizing point of the gay marriage movement, complete with media profiles of sympathetic gay couples, one sick, the other still in pretty good shape. However, the financial motive seemed a little crass. Worse, forcing employers’ health-insurance plans to take on gay spouses who were already sick with a very costly disease (in those days before antivirals) was a type of “pre-existing condition” problem— suddenly having to pay for unexpected AIDS victims meant reducing benefits for all other workers and their families. (Insurance rates had been set to cover gay workers getting sick just like straight workers, but not to cover unexpected “gay spouses.”)

    The gay marriage movement wasn’t stupid. Soon it soft-pedaled the whole insurance thing; started to emphasize the intense social longing of gays to marry and live monogamous lives of mutual devotion; claimed that AIDS was caused by the lack of gay marriage which virtually forced gays into promiscuity; asserted that failure to offer marriage licenses to gay couples was exactly the same thing as denying them to interracial straight couples; and finally, with some justice, complained that without gay marriage to give them legal power some gays were frozen out of final care decisions and funeral arrangements for their AIDS-afflicted partners by the aging parents of those partners who resented the fact that homosexual acquaintances had killed their sons by infecting them with AIDS.

    The first- and second-phase gay marriage movement won enough public (or at least political) sympathy to obtain “domestic partner” laws which delivered the “spousal” health insurance and legal privileges. However, when antiviral drugs softened the AIDS disaster so much that it ceased to worry gays, much less the general public, the leaders of the gay-marriage movement were not prepared to give up a good gig. They decided “domestic partner” status was not as dignified as (straight) marriage. Worse, they decided that since they had whipped AIDS (not true, of course; mostly-straight medical researchers had done that) they could whip “homophobia” too— force recalcitrant straights not just to tolerate homosexuals and pay to treat their STD’s, but to endorse gayness under pain of legal punishment for any lack of enthusiasm. So the movement for “gay marriage” became the movement for gay marriage, not “undignified” domestic-partnership, of which the whole point was to destroy the free-speech rights of “homophobes” since the practical demands that first animated the movement had all been won already.

    • Agree: Grace Jones
  70. @Buzz Mohawk

    ‘ …I never knew anybody who even knew someone who knew someone who knew a heterosexual person who got it, much less died of it. It simply didn’t happen, not through sex anyway…’

    Indeed. I wonder what the odds actually are of contracting AIDS if you’re not black, not gay, don’t use intravenous drugs, and don’t have sex with anyone who is in those categories.

    …I suspect you might as well worry about shark attack.

  71. @doxmenot

    ‘The reason AIDS is present in heterosexuals in the third world (but rarely spread heterosexually in the first world) is explained by the poor health of third worlders…’

    No, it’s a black thing, not a poor thing. AIDS rates in Africa are literally an order of magnitude higher than they are anywhere else, and that includes lots of non-black third-world countries.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  72. Anon[265] • Disclaimer says:

    Remember that book on patient zero, the flight attendant guy? I was surprised a few years ago to learn that the book and its author have been cancelled. Apparently the gay community considers it the equivalent of Mein Kampf or The Bell Curve. At the time it was highly respected, somewhat in the same category of solid investigative journalism as the recent Theranos book.

    At any rate, there have been several supposed findings in preserved tissue of HIV from patients who died decades prior to the AIDS outbreak in the US. If that’s true, then a real case could be made that gay lib was indeed the culprit. In other words, in the less promiscuous society prior to gay lib HIV just puttered along killing the odd victim, but in the Bathhouse-opocene Era it exponentially exploded.

    By the way, I recently discovered the world of discussion boards and blogs of children of gay couples. It’s my impression that a lot of them are not happy and are kind of screwed up. Looking for research on the matter I stumbled into the world of researchers who cannot get kids-of-gays research funded. It’s taboo, apparently, to even study it, for to do so would be to imply that everything is possibly not copacetic.

  73. Anon[352] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Gays have always had a strong sexual preference for teens. This is not widely discussed in polite society anymore, but it’s a fact of gay life.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  74. Duke84 says:
    @Anonymous

    The moon landing was accomplished by white men therefore it’s not something to be celebrated by the PC left.

  75. @Anonymous

    Duh. There are homos in Britain, but the Apollo Project was just uppity colonials. And they can imply that any annoyance caused by British gays is the result of the aforementioned colonials.

  76. Old fogey says:
    @Precious

    Absolutely correct. I praise you for your straightforward and knowledgeable comment.

  77. Old fogey says:
    @Jim Christian

    The medical establishment as a whole never treated AIDS as it did other venereal diseases. Physicians did not ask AIDS patients with whom they had sex, and therefore did not follow up with them.

    • Replies: @Fen Tiger
    , @Niccolo Salo
  78. With Corporate American stridently celebrating Stonewall Pride ….

    It was all over UK and Western European TV news too.

    Or does everybody now believe AIDS was the fault of Ronald Reagan (or, for the more hep, Nancy Reagan)?

    It was definitely Nancy. There were two U-2 flights: The one take took GWB to meet with the Iranians and secure the release of the spies hostages; another to take Nancy to the secret See-Aye-Ay lab deep in the Congo to obtain the weaponised AIDS that would be released into the gay population. She then planted it in party refreshments supplied to Ronnie Jr. who unwittingly introduced it into the the community and spread it.

    Sorry, this is just a sick joke, but no sicker that the Dem hyperventilation about the alleged GWB flight to meet the Iranians.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
  79. Lurker says:
    @Colin Wright

    In the 1980s (in the UK) we were regularly told that “AIDS doesn’t discriminate”.

    But it turned out that AIDS does discriminate after all.

  80. anon[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    You know that HIV in the US is primarily a disease among MSM. It is secondarily associated with IV drug use transgressive behaviors like IV Drug abuse. And not surprisingly blacks. It is essentially absent in white males who don’t have MSM and don’t abuse IV drugs.

    The vast majority of HIV in the US is among MSM.

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
  81. @Clifford Brown

    On the plus side, the subways this weekend in New York worked. Gay Pride makes the trains run on time.

    One of the funnier things I experienced in NYC was at roughly 9pm while waiting on the 51st street subway platform in NYC, when an announcement blared over the speakers that the 6-train was being held at Grand Central to get it back on schedule; more than a few people said something to the effect of, “They have a schedule?”

  82. anon[169] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bruno

    Is there an affinity between AIDS and gays and Africans other than promiscuity (higher average number of partner of the group and perhaps more anal intercourses )

    You are missing IV drug abuse. AAs are vastly overrepresented in the sex trade and drugs.

    • Replies: @guest
  83. @Colin Wright

    … I suspect you might as well worry about shark attack ….

    You’re more likely to die while taking a selfie.

  84. BenKenobi says:
    @Clifford Brown

    I would accept a “Gay Pride Century”

    Good news, buddy-ro! You’re livin’ in it!

  85. Saxon says:
    @Bruno

    The anus easily gets teared in a way that leaves open access to the bloodstream quite easily. So gay “bottoms” get “pozzed” (their term) quite easily if they are having anal sex with infected men. They also do weird stuff like eat other’s asses which has led to all sorts of disgusting stuff like getting parasites and the Giardia thing from a couple years back.

    Similarly, the rates of infection are different between heterosexual men and women. The vagina can get such tears as well though not as easily, but heterosexual men are much less likely to be infected because it’s much harder for a man to contract this disease than a woman due to the specifics of biology involved. Even if a heterosexual man has unprotected sex with an HIV-infected woman he only has a small percent chance of actually getting it. How heterosexual women get diseases in general is that they are offering up virtual harems to infected but attractive men. This is another reason why promiscuity tends to be bad. This is also reflected in the fact that women always have higher rates of diseases than the men of their own racial group.

    Heterosexual white and east Asian men tend to have the lowest rates of all diseases because of a combination of biology and low time preference, high impulse control.

    I highly doubt the levels of STDs among heterosexuals is anywhere near gays, but it probably has gone up within big cities and with dating apps since what you see is a more pronounced Pareto distribution of a small percentage of men getting most of the sex and some of them can act as disease vectors. Gays have much higher numbers of sex partners but also there’s the biological issue I mentioned previously there as well.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  86. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    While there are promiscuous heterosexuals, it just isn’t part of hetero culture the way it is for gay men. Anonymous sex with multiple partners just isn’t as common.

    I would just add this is common also of bisexuals & sometimes of straight men, but not in such a measure. I remember reading Prince Kropotkin’s memoirs & a deliberate salacious stuff like Casanova’s memoirs or Suetonius’ lives of Caesars.

    As Tacitus had said abut these types of people:
    http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.6.vi.html

    And so died Tiberius, in the seventy eighth year of his age. Nero was his father, and he was on both sides descended from the Claudian house, though his mother passed by adoption, first into the Livian, then into the Julian family. From earliest infancy, perilous vicissitudes were his lot. Himself an exile, he was the companion of a proscribed father, and on being admitted as a stepson into the house of Augustus, he had to struggle with many rivals, so long as Marcellus and Agrippa and, subsequently, Caius and Lucius Caesar were in their glory. Again his brother Drusus enjoyed in a greater degree the affection of the citizens. But he was more than ever on dangerous ground after his marriage with Julia, whether he tolerated or escaped from his wife’s profligacy. On his return from Rhodes he ruled the emperor’s now heirless house for twelve years, and the Roman world, with absolute sway, for about twenty-three. His character too had its distinct periods. It was a bright time in his life and reputation, while under Augustus he was a private citizen or held high offices; a time of reserve and crafty assumption of virtue, as long as Germanicus and Drusus were alive. Again, while his mother lived, he was a compound of good and evil; he was infamous for his cruelty, though he veiled his debaucheries, while he loved or feared Sejanus. Finally, he plunged into every wickedness and disgrace, when fear and shame being cast off, he simply indulged his own inclinations.

  87. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    While there are promiscuous heterosexuals, it just isn’t part of hetero culture the way it is for gay men.

    The problem with hetero promiscuity is you have to find a willing, f***able female. This involves a lot more time and effort than boring a glory hole in a bathroom stall.

    There doesn’t seem to be any challenge at all to homosexuality. That’s the problem.

    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
  88. Three things: First, while it’s clear that men are more inclined to promiscuity than women and thus that male homosexuals are more likely to be promiscuous than male heterosexuals, I don’t see why we shouldn’t accord at least some part of the reason for the extraordinary excesses of the liberation era to the misery of the closet. Unhappiness in anyone can lead to self-destructive behavior. Second, we shouldn’t forget that heterosexuals too were testing the notion (remember “The Harrad Experiment”?) in those years that every bit of sexual inhibition they might feel was a dismal holdover from a repressive age that was expiring. Third, an anecdote: I was living in San Francisco in the late 70s and early 80s, and for about half a year let a visiting colleague stay in our spare bedroom. He was an active participant in the bathhouse orgies, and he liked to try to shock the relatively inexperienced heterosexual that I was with such invitations as “Let me take you to the bathhouse tonight and show you what manly sex is all about,” and such reports as “Last night I had my arms up to here [indicating his elbows] in that boy’s asshole.” He became horribly sick and was hospitalized during that time, but he survived another couple of years before dying of AIDS.

  89. Fen Tiger says:
    @Old fogey

    Physicians did not ask AIDS patients with whom they had sex, and therefore did not follow up with them.

    Anecdotally, a friend of mine was a newly-qualified neurologist who had landed a career-making opportunity: to interview everyone found to be HIV-positive in the southern half of England in a year. This was early in the epidemic.

    A year or two later, I met him and talk turned to careers. He was downcast: it was clear, he said, that a huge AIDS epidemic was not going to happen. This was a surprise to me, because the UK’s safe-sex propaganda campaign was already in progress.

    When I asked why, he said (I quote from memory), “it’s not that AIDS isn’t lethal: pretty much everyone I interviewed is now dead; it’s that the main factor in the best epidemiological model we’ve got as yet is the average number of sexual partners per year across a population – squared. The average yearly number of partners for heterosexuals aged 20-40 in the UK is less than 2; most of the people I interviewed would think nothing of having several times that number of partners in a weekend – or an evening.”

    Turned out he was right. The officials and politicians who pushed the “not a gay plague” line knew – or had no excuse for not knowing – it was false, almost from the beginning; but they did it anyway.

    • Replies: @John Pepple
  90. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    “If it had been treated the way Legionnaire’s Disease was a few years prior, the number of victims would have been enormously reduced, but it was essentially allowed to spread unchecked until the mid to late 80s”

    Not with a 6 to 10 year latency period.

  91. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    I think the politically correct response to AIDS was just another manifestation of the constant that is progressive thinking.

    The progressive mind seems to always focus on symbolism, narratives, and virtue signalling at the expense of reality.

    So all the progressive effort was put into “destigmatizing” AIDS victims and treating the disease as a civil rights issue. They didn’t worry so much, however, about taking the actual steps necessary to minimize the death toll.

    If the disease, by contrast, had struck only, say, little girls, we would have imposed an emergency quarantine or whatever other steps were required to save all lives possible. But progressivism always elevate symbolism over results.

    We’re just lucky the scientists came through in relatively short order. Or who knows what the death toll would have been.

  92. @Jim Christian

    How many rock stars died of AIDS? Rocks stars sleep with lots of girls.

    Freddie Mercury.

    But …

  93. Bruno says:

    If women had the same promiscuity than men, would there be such differences between straight men and gay men sex life (7 versus 160 average number of partners).

    My guess is that there wouldn’t be any difference. Because you only need to walk next to a beautiful girl in the street to see what kind of horny dogs men are all the time, from wall steeet executives to shopkeepers and construction workers.

  94. For those interested:

    I spent some time putting together information that I culled from several sources into a thread on the early days of HIV in San Francisco. You can find it here – https://salo-forum.com/index.php?threads/patient-zero-and-the-early-days-of-hiv-aids.3167/

    The best source, and it’s available for free online, is the Standford University Oral History. You get first person interviews with all the key players who were around in those days. Selma Dritz (played by Lili Tomlin in “And the Band Played On”) is a particular highlight as she was very, very upfront about what was going on in those days. She constantly battled with the owners of the baths for example even prior to HIV as the various STDs were building and building among San Fran’s gay population.

    One of the great crimes of history is that all of her notes containing personal information were thrown in actual fire when she retired to ‘protect individuals’. In fact it was an act of historical vandalism with the intent of keeping as much of the behaviours of gays at that time as secret as possible.

    Michael Callen was a singer and was the creator of the first safe-sex for gays pamphlet in the wake of HIV alongside a gay prostitute named Berkowitz (who I think is still somehow alive). Here’s an excerpt from Callen (who died in the early 90s) about his own sexual health history:

    “In the Spring of ’81, when the CDC made its first report, I was sick: fevers, night sweats, thrush, weight loss, diarrhea and malaise. The standard tests showed nothing conclusive.

    As it happened, my doctor was Joe Sonnabend–a microbiologist of international repute who had left the research world to go into private practice. He initiated some of the earliest AIDS research using samples provided by me and other patients from his practice. As a result, Dr. Sonnabend was able to tell me as early as December 1981 that I had almost no T-helper cells left and that other blood parameters indicated that I was dangerously immunosuppressed. My results, he warned, were identical to those of his patients who had–or who were soon to develop–PCP and KS.

    The CDC case control study of the first 50 gay men with AIDS found a medium number of lifetime sexual partners of 1,150 and a history of many sexually transmitted diseases. I fit that profile. By the age of 27, I had had an estimated 3,000 sex partners in bathhouses and backrooms. Not coincidentally, I had also been diagnosed with the following diseases: innumerable bouts of gonorrhea of the throat, penis and anus; syphilis; non-specific urethritis; chalymidia; candida albicans; endless episodes of entamoeba histolytica, giardia lamblia; salmonella; shigella; hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and hepatitis non-A, non-B; venereal warts; herpes simplex Types I and II; Epstein-Barr reactivations; repeated cytomegalovirus infections; disseminated varicella zoster (shingles); and finally, cryptosporidiosis and AIDS.

    The question for me upon diagnosis was not so much “Why me” as wonder at how I had I remained standing on two feet so long.

    Although I can understand why most gay activists shudder at the implications, I suspected then–as I continue to suspect–that, bluntly put, a small subset of promiscuous gay men (including myself) unwittingly managed to recreate disease settings equivalent to those of poor third world nations and junkies.

    So, in December of 1981, I had reason to be very frightened. Dr. Sonnabend was blunt: he told me that if I didn’t stop practicing what was to become known as “unsafe sex”–if I continued to barrage my immune system with sexually transmitted infections–I might well die.

    If there had been such a term, I would in early 1982 have been diagnosed with ARC–AIDS related complex. At the time, the very namelessness of the condition compounded the terror.

    I continued to lose weight–to sleep 12 or 14 hours–to vomit up my food. And I had bloody diarrhea 8 to 10 times a day. In June of 1982, I collapsed in my home from dehydration and was taken to the emergency room with a 104 degree fever by Dr. Sonnabend’s physician’s assistant.

    During that hospitalization–my first in a series–they finally diagnosed my problem as cryptosporidiosis–a parasite which, in the cryptic words of the hospital doctor, had been “previously found only in livestock.”

    Cryptosporidiosis–which we PWAs refer to as “crypto”–is one of the diseases which qualifies one for an official diagnosis of AIDS. When a very handsome intern asked me a lot of questions about my sexual history, indicating that he needed the information to fill out an “AIDS report form,” I had the first frightening sense of being a statistic. I knew that the odds of survival were very small.

    I had a mixed reaction to my diagnosis: on the one hand, I was relieved to finally know what had been making me so sick for so long; on the other hand, being told I had AIDS and that my opportunistic infection was untreatable was devastating.”

    The rest you can read here – http://michaelcallen.com/mikes-writing/life-in-the-reagan-aidies/

    He had reached a point where every sexual contact he was making would involve him getting a new STD. By 1979 gay men in NYC, San Francisco, and LA (particularly West Hollywood and Silver Lake) were walking biohazards.

    The joke was “you go to an STD clinic to get a shot and a date”.

    The con job/propaganda that Gay Activists pulled on the USA in the 1980s was impressive. As it fed into others spheres of life it has turned into a Frankenstein, best exemplified by having a whole month dedicated to celebrations of gay lifestyle and the coercion used by the USA against foreign countries to also allow this celebration to be as public as possible in their own countries.

  95. @Old fogey

    “Physicians did not ask AIDS patients with whom they had sex, and therefore did not follow up with them.”

    The CDC definitely did and it was thanks to the cooperation of French Canadian Flight Attendant Gaetan Dugas that they were able to compile their first cluster study. Unfortunately for Dugas an improper reading of this cluster study made him the infamous “Patient Zero”. This was due to the fact that he not only had his black book with him at all times but because he was able to name so many partners and wasn’t shy about doing so. His mobility as a flight attendant allowed the CDC researchers to link NYC, SF, and LA.

    But as I mentioned in another post many of these records were destroyed, particularly those in San Francisco, in order to ‘protect privacy’ i.e. spare gays of embarrassment and hand over damaging evidence of their behaviours to those not fond of their activities and the lifestyles that they were promoting.

  96. PaceLaw says:

    Careful Steve, you can easily find yourself memory holed for noticing anything negative about the gay community. Their power is bafflingly that great at this time.

  97. Pericles says:
    @CCZ

    The most damning part is perhaps after the medicine for holding back HIV had been developed at huge public expense: the ‘gays’ (oh yes, so joyous!) resumed and expanded their habits, they lobbied government into paying for their pills but also into giving them disability for contracting this eminently non-contractable disease, and, of course, in San Francisco giving someone HIV is no longer a crime.

    “Pride”, huh.

    • Replies: @prime noticer
  98. @Paleo Retiree

    First of all, great comment. Secondly, I don’t think I’ve actually heard the term “buttfucking” since high school, and I’m laughing my ass off at 4:30 in the morning reading this. The thought of a retiree age individual using the term makes it even funnier. Thanks for the laugh.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    , @MBlanc46
  99. @Bruno

    IIRC Africans do catch it more easily while Europeans have some kind of cross-resistance dating from the Black Death.
    Pooter poking produces more microtraumata (read: bleeding) and eases transmission.

    And then there´s the famous Kenyan public health campaign
    “Warning! AIDS is contracted through normal heterosexual intercourse!”
    (it seems heteros had been feeling safe)
    As a result the local whores only took it in the rear, and the rates exploded.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    , @Bruno
  100. Coag says:
    @Nick Diaz

    Absolutely outlaw, if scientifically sound. Your hysterics about banning porn and banning cheetos have nothing to do with anything.

    The shutting down of the bathhouses and orgy sites was a no-brainer. One of the smart decisions they made early on in the epidemic was the blanket ban on gays donating blood. The decision was statistically, scientifically, and ethically sound. AIDS-infected gays donating and selling blood and subsequently infecting thousands of innocent people including the horrific holocaust of hemophiliacs is one of the unsung heartwrenching tragedies that stemmed from gay liberation.

    Also please read through all the comments in the thread, many made by first hand chroniclers and journalists of the AIDS epidemic, that show that, indeed, gay liberation ignited the deadliest and most dramatic plague of our lifetime.

    First of all, you couldn’t care less about the lives of gay men. That is just an excuse from you to jusitify keeping gay men forcefully in the closet so as to not get in the way of your ideal Society of married straight people with kids.

    Whether gay or straight, the dangerous ethos of wanton promsicuity should absolutely be a taboo. As a parent who doesn’t want his kids exposed to this warped ethos, I can say it with absolute conviction and I reject any excuse you yourself come up with that justifies your own “ideal society”. You obviously couldn’t care less about the lives of traditional families with kids.

    Gays have an important and inalienable role in society. As LePen accurately observed, gays are like salt in soup — too little salt and the soup is bland and unpalatable, too much salt and the soup is also ruined.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  101. @Nick Diaz

    ‘Gay liberation caused AIDS.” What a lying, moronic, stupid statement.

    If only you showed us why, instead of showing us the insides of Sailer’s noggin…

    Lovers of fallacies should delight in discussions like these.

    Mr. Sailer kicks it off with an ”after this, therefore because of this”. It’s not unprotected sex with someone HIV-positive that caused (and causes) AIDS, or receiving HIV-positive blood in a transfusion, or the sharing of needles contaminated with said blood, happening many times so to cause an epidemic: no, it’s gay liberation.

    You, Mr. Diaz, then ad hominem Sailer thoroughly: he doesn’t care about gays, he’d rather have them all in the closet, or dead, and apparently argues for outlawing gay sex again. He wants to babysit the gays — or that’s what he wants us to think, because as you said, he’s dishonest and prejudiced: he actually wants them repressed by the married straights with kids. Or dead. That gays are disproportionately HIV-positive… how’s that even relevant, you might add.

    It could go on. A third commenter could admit that yes, gays are much more often HIV-positive than straights are, but that’s the straights’ fault. They are rumored to (rarely) ”bugchase”, or at least fantasize about doing so, but the straights are to blame for that too. A fourth commenter could claim that, actually, the majority of gays ”bugchase”, not a minority: he knows this from his gay friends.

    And so on… the fallacy connoisseur would not come out disappointed.

  102. Pericles says:
    @prime noticer

    here comes some homo trying to pretend that african men who have sex with other men aren’t gay.

    I actually think there is something of a point there: there is a segment of men who, how shall we put it, ‘belong to the MSM’ but are not part of the ‘gay culture’ and indeed refuse to identify as ‘gay’. Obvious example is POCs in prison, I guess, but presumably it’s a common attitude among those.

    (Another question is whether those africans really have AIDS, which I’m skeptical about, or just generic ill health.)

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
  103. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    If it had been treated the way Legionnaire’s Disease was a few years prior,

    Point counterpoint:

    In January 1977, the Legionella bacterium was finally identified and isolated … This finding prompted new regulations worldwide for climate control systems.

    Legionella Guidelines, Standards, and Regulations

    Vs.

    Blood donation rules relaxed for gay men and sex workers

    For gay men donating blood, the discrimination isn’t over – yet

    ‘Unfair and discriminatory’ ban on gay men donating blood needs to change

    The Bigotry of Gay-Blood-Donation Bans

  104. Pericles says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Michael Blowhard (who can of course be found here, though under another name) had a striking article about this, or rather what it looked like when AIDS got started: http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2007/02/aids_and_immune.html

    From another source, here is a remembrance of Patient Zero (250 new ‘partners’ per year) by a medical doctor.

    I knew that Gaetan Dugas was still in town. I couldn’t get to him, but I put word out, “If you see Gaetan Dugas, let him know I want to see him.” He came up. I told him, “Look, we’ve got proof now.” I didn’t tell him how scientifically accurate the information was. It wasn’t inaccurate, but it wasn’t actually scientifically proven. I said, “We’ve got proof that you’ve been infecting these other people. You’ve got AIDS, you know. We know it’s transmissible now, because you’re transmitting it.” He was the active partner in all this gay business, anal-genital sex. “You’ve just got to cut it out.”

    “Don’t be silly, I won’t cut it out. It’s my life. I’ll do what I want.” I said, “Yes, but you’re infecting other people.” “I got it. Let them get it.” I said, “You’ve got to cut it out!” “Screw you.” He walked out. I never saw him again. It was a pity, because he was apparently an intelligent man, except on this one point. And he was very, very sexually active. He was a presumptive proof that AIDS was something transmissible from an infected person directly to the uninfected person.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  105. Pericles says:
    @Coag

    Also a few sorry souls got it through blood transfusion. I hear the gays are nowadays campaigning for poisoning the blood supply again, but I also seem to recall reading that some ‘activists’ back then donated poz blood to ‘increase public awareness’ … I don’t have a source for that though.

    Those infected through blood transfusion were of course a primary showcases to the normies, shame on the normie for thinking AIDS was related only to deviant subcultures.

  106. Anonymous[363] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Top 1970s British TV comedian and DJ, Kenny Everett, also died of Aids.

    It is believed that they – at the very least – had a ‘boyfriend’ in common, a Spanish waiter.

  107. Gordo says:

    If Reagen had closed the bathhouses and quarantined the infectious there would be tens of thousands of homosexual men still alive who died of AIDS.

    And they would all loathe the memory of Ronald Reagen for ruining their lifestyles.

    You just can’t win with some people.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  108. lavoisier says: • Website

    This argument has a lot to do with virulence, or how destructive the pathogen is to the host.

    When the route of transmission of the AIDS virus was facilitated by the gay liberation movement, I remember there was a scientific paper claiming that the virulence of the virus was able to increase significantly.

    Hence, it became a killer.

    Might be interesting to review that scientific argument again in light of this article.

  109. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Pericles

    Yes, I remember this kind of stupidity and indifference to others as well.

    The push to keep the bathhouses open was portrayed as a courageous act of civil rights than what it really was–selfishness and stupidity.

    In the movie The Band Played On they actually had the nerve to blame Reagan for wanting to close down the bathhouses, implying at some level that he was responsible for the Gay Plague.

    A lot of innocent people died from this scourge because of the stupidity of the progressive left.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  110. Pericles says:
    @Tono Bungay

    I don’t see why we shouldn’t accord at least some part of the reason for the extraordinary excesses of the liberation era to the misery of the closet.

    Things seem to be going on outside the closet much as they were inside the closet.

  111. Pericles says:
    @Pericles

    Hahaha, I seem to serve up the very coldest takes today. Not a fresh contribution yet. In my defense, I wrote them all while you were stuck in mod.

  112. Not sure if anyone here ever read anonymous photo blogger Zombie, but he/she had a great report on the Folsom Street Fair in San Fransisco that is now 12 years old. Some great insight into the depravity of the homosexual lifestyle:

    http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/index.php

    Chicago had its Homo Pride Parade yesterday. My lesbian sister in law, who is obviously pro-homo, refuses to go anymore because not only is she weary of the gratuitous “sexual” display it has become, but also because it’s also a magnet for all sorts of other petty street criminality.

    http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/06/our-annual-pride-advice-enjoy-days.html

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    , @Kylie
    , @Olorin
  113. Jake says:

    AIDS, like so many other things that are great for sacred Diversity, comes from Africa. AIDS came from monkeys. Chimps hunt and eat monkeys, raw of course. Some ‘rogue’ chimps may rape monkeys, including homosexual rape.

    Humans very rarely eat raw monkeys or chimps, but human-chimp sex is not uncommon in the parts of Africa where chimps are plenty and Da Bros have access to young that may be raised and groomed by them.

    The AIDs epidemic was caused by the Sexual Revolution, which led people to engage in ‘the primitive’ in order to discover the many ways they might enjoy getting their rocks off.

    • Replies: @orionyx
  114. It was in the U.S. as early as the ’60s, but could never gain much traction until the late ’70s because the main vectors–I.V. drug use and promiscuous anal sex–were strongly discouraged both by law and by culture and were rare. Not only that but there were very high rates of circumcision which arrested transmission within the heterosexual, non-I.V. using population in those rare instances when it happened to be introduced there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rayford

    AIDS is still a rarity among the heterosexual, non-I.V. drug using population but that may change as rates of circumcision drop.

  115. There’s conspiracy theories.that’s AIDS isn’t real.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  116. Jake says:
    @Tono Bungay

    The ending of your post shows that the opening is no better than PC-approved cliches that may honestly spring from a desire to see all peoples as relatively equal.

  117. @Michael S

    AIDS in Africa was caused by the practice of reusing hypodermic needles for inoculation and vaccinations.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  118. @Hypnotoad666

    The problem with hetero promiscuity is you have to find a willing, f***able female. This involves a lot more time and effort than boring a glory hole in a bathroom stall.

    There doesn’t seem to be any challenge at all to homosexuality. That’s the problem.

    Right. A much overlooked fact is that they’re not promiscuous because they’re gay; they’re promiscuous because they’re men.

    • Agree: The Anti-Gnostic
  119. BurOaker says:

    What is the worst part of dying from AIDS?

    One has to leave ones’ friend’s behind…………..

  120. @Steve Sailer

    But somehow most gay/bi rock stars of the 1970s did not/have not die(d) of AIDS – Elton John, Rob Halford, Bowie, George Michael, etc. George Michael’s boyfriend died of AIDS, but somehow George never got infected? There may still be a lot about HIV that is not being explained correctly.

  121. @PaceLaw

    Their power is bafflingly that great at this time.

    No mystery. Our “conservative” President is a great friend of the homosexual community, and has been dating back to his relationship with Roy Cohn. He’s a New Yorker with extravagant taste and has always enjoyed having gays as part of his social scene.

    In the words of Fox News:

    “Without a doubt, Trump is the most pro-gay Republican president in American history. He is also the first president from either political party to enter the White House while supporting same-sex marriage, and he has made a bold commitment to eradicate HIV domestically by 2030. Taking all of this into account, Trump is situated to become the most pro-gay president ever.”

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    , @Lugash
    , @PaceLaw
  122. countenance says: • Website

    AIDS was in the United States and specifically in St. Louis by 1966.

    There was a locally famous case of a black teenager in St. Louis by the name of Robert Rayford who died of a then mysterious ailment in 1969 at the age of 16. Once AIDS was discovered and became better understood, researchers went back and found out that AIDS is what did Rayford in. His symptoms started appearing in 1966.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    , @El Dato
  123. @Paleo Retiree

    Nice to see one of blowhards turn up here. The blowhard essays are still worth reading, and thank God we still have their archives, or most of them.

    And it’s good to see Fumento’s book mentioned. Fumento is an under-appreciated writer, and his _Myth of heterosexual AIDS_ was worth reading, even if not totally correct or flawless. It even has a nice epigraph. I’ll paraphrase from memory:

    “The most devastating truth is a fact that is kept secret by a well-meaning friend.”

    = – = – = – = – =

    It didn’t take that long for medical professionals to notice that in the USA the heterosexual risks of contracting HIV were extremely low and seemed stable over time. Well before 1990 I saw an essay in a pathology journal or newsletter claiming that if you drove 10 miles to have sex with someone in a low risk group, you were as much at risk of death in traffic as you were from contracting HIV in that single act of love.

    All you had to assume was that you were driving to have sex with a heterosexual who did not have a high risk partner and did not inject drugs. And driving about 10 miles.

    = – = – = – = – =

    The African situation is different. A good book to read is _The origins of AIDS_ by Jacques Pepin, published by Oxford. The author spent years in Central Africa practicing medicine, is currently an academic in Canada. The book is largely an historical exploration. It has a lot of difficult vocabulary but the underlying arguments are not complex. (1) More urbanization, (2) more prostitution in the big cities, (3) re-use of needles (iatrogenic transmission) all helped HIV break out of isolated communities in Central Africa. The commercial blood products industry later played a role as well.

    A underappreciated fact is that it’s apparently more common in many parts of Africa to have “concurrent sexual partners.” Promiscuity does not run wild, but many adults may have two or more partners simultaneously for some years at a time. In much of the industrialized West it’s more common for people to practice serial monogamy. It’s hard to hide an affair, and often one of the partners won’t tolerate it and doesn’t have to.

  124. @Nick Diaz

    “your ideal Society of married straight people with kids”

    The available evidence suggests this is objectively the best society.

    It’s probably better for gays too. They don’t age well. Most would be haapier if they had stayed in the closet, married and raised kids.

  125. Beliavsky says:
    @prime noticer

    “it’s also causing untreatable STDs.

    new STDs are appearing as well. infections that were barely known, or never detected before 10 or 20 years ago.”

    Could you provide references?

  126. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @CCZ

    ironically, the advent of AIDS probably advanced gay rights more than anything else in history

    It certainly advanced the cash flow of gay-managed & affiliated nonprofits– the AIDS economy was very good for the NYC rich-people-dressing-up-to-show-their-concern industry. Also funneled a lot of L.A. media wealth to “educators,” politicians, gallery owners, etc.

    “Money doesn’t talk, it swears”

  127. @Colin Wright

    It’s a behavioral thing: anal intercourse, drug use, and hyper-promiscuity. Blacks exhibit less impulse control on average, so blacks have higher rates of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  128. Bucky says:

    There was a reason why the British military theorized that Hitler was gay.

    The extreme nationalist takes what should be a public utility — the government — and turns it into an avatar of grievance.

    There’s also a reason why gay culture was centered in big cities which also are near military bases.

    In the bits of gay literature that I’ve gleamed in my life, one big event that they trace as their founding is WWII. In their telling, it was WWII which brought together all of these men from the country and put them in one place.

    WWII of course also is the beginning of the American empire we’re living in today.

    Doing the business of the state is unnatural, and gays are like Crusaders who won’t go home. They want to wage their crusade forever because they like the feeling of it. They don’t want to go home to the boring country girl and her sensitivities. There’s also a reason why a lot of gay iconography in that era is of authority figures — police especially.

    That gays have power, and it is mainly male gays of course, it is because gays have this Crusader righteousness which other people defer to.

    In a way, the gay movement is taking the energy which would go towards fascist conquest, and turning it inwards, quite literally.

  129. neprof says:
    @advancedatheist

    The first of the seven deadly sins:

    Pride is excessive belief in one’s own abilities, that interferes with the individual’s recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise.

    Ironic the Gay movement uses Pride as its moniker.

    • Replies: @Dr. X
  130. @Anon

    Many years ago I read in New Scientist, a British publication, that the tissues of an English sailor who died in London in 1959 was shown to have been a death by AIDS.

    The sailor in question was thought to have contracted the disease during his trips to Africa.

    This shows how luck of the draw affects life

    Suppose more sailors had contracted AIDS. Suppose they lived long enough to give AIDS to a number of prostitutes in British ports, and suppose the disease spread around London and Liverpool and the like just when promiscuous sex and IV drug use were spreading.

    Instead of a gay flight attendant in the 70s, had luck gone another way AIDS could have come to the US with the British Invasion, spreading through young people with sex and IV drug use.

    All in all, the AIDS epidemic in the US was a mere sideshow to the vastly larger epidemic in Africa. It was inevitable that the disease would reach the US. It was a matter of when and how.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    , @Jake
  131. Dr. X says:
    @Daniel H

    BTW, the very notion of a gay bathouse, where men engage in sexual activity with multiples of other men – one after the other, after the other, after the other…..- in a public setting, is disgusting, revolting. It is degrading. Behaviour unworthy of a human being.

    100%. I think gays should be involuntarily committed to mental institutions for life where they are drugged into a catatonic stupor.

    The fact that these sick people practically control the corporate and political structures of our society (along with a certain Middle Eastern Tribe), and their perversion is openly celebrated, is proof positive that our society is collapsing a into a new Dark Age as we speak.

  132. Ganderson says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Is Peter Duesberg still working?

  133. @Hippopotamusdrome

    The one I hear is that the government is suppressing the cure for AIDS.

  134. There’s always the latest statistics from the CDC in Atlanta.

    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/reports/hiv-surveillance.html

  135. @J.Ross

    I read in the past that some homosexuals were “bugchasers” because they thought that being HIV-positive was to be authentically homosexual. They also thought that they would be otherwise healthy (!) with proper medication. I don’t know if this is still true.

    A major reason for the general breakdown of sexual self-restraint over the past century was the successful use of penicillin to treat venereal disease during WWII. For the first time in history, picking up a venereal disease was no big deal – get a shot and it’ll go away. You can imagine what kind of effect that had on some GIs morals.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  136. @MikeatMikedotMike

    I’m a retiree, I find it’s exceedingly easy to use the Buttfuck for that particular proclivity. Also acceptable, butt-munch, turd burglar, pole-smoker. Squat-tag in the cucumber patch used to mean the bathhouses, but then I heard an old country boy one day use it to describe the fat, sweaty country girls down on the farm. Homos appropriated lots of words, starting with Gay. Turns out a country girl couldn’t even have Squat-Tag.

  137. And the nasty Irish Catholic Admiral Mike Mullin in his homo norming of the US Military….homo-normed America….now their going after the pre-school kids……

  138. @Anon

    This is the crux of the whole thing, from the perspective of “how could anyone possibly have any problem with the poz?” and Kennedy’s execrable answer in Obergefell of animus alone.

    Kids do better with their moms and dads. We have a whole generation of children of divorce and broken families chafing hard at the denial of this truth, the denial of even its possibility. This is the motive force behind the present culture war.

    The elites (sic) are on the wrong side.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  139. @Skyler_the_Weird

    To be precise, reusing needles cannot cause a disease to exist. It can spread a disease.

    One hypothesis is that sloppy practice in the massive smallpox vaccination campaign inadvertently spread AIDS around Africa. That was combined with the massive increase in long haul trucking . Lots of prostitution at truck stops in Africa. A long-haul trucker with AIDS could spread the disease from truck stop to truck stop, while the prostitutes spread AIDS from trucker to trucker within each truck stop.

  140. @Buzz Mohawk

    I bit OT but to repsond to your posting:
    I’ve always felt (as do many historians) that LBJ decided to “escalate” US involvment in Vietnam to provide himself with political cover against accusations that he was soft on Communism. But what Vietnam inadvertently did was serve as a recruiting tool for the New Left in the 60s to draw in disaffected young men (and their female allies) who were understandably angered and outraged over this travesty of a war which should have never occured in the first place.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  141. @Desiderius

    Kids do best with a loving mother and a loving father who love each other as well.

    Unfortunately that is not always the case. In far too may cases there are divorces. In far too many cases there are abusive parents. In those cases we hope for, and try to legally allow, the best possible situation in what may be a collection of bad options.

    One of the reasons I am in favor of gay marriage is because some gays will raise families. Two loving mothers or two loving fathers may not be the ideal case, but it is vastly preferable to a single parent and whoever is staying over that night.

    Reproduction is a human right. We can’t and should not stop it. What we can do is allow for the best possible situation under the circumstances to be legally sanctioned.

  142. @Daniel H

    It was observed at the at the time that for the first time in history, a fatal disease had civil rights.

    Ironic that Gays have achieved acceptance, considering that they are probably the most disease-ridden group in the world. In an earlier age, their general hedonism, which includes heavy drinking, drugs and smoking, would have doomed them to an early death, as well as universal social opprobrium.

  143. @Autochthon

    “The savages must stop having ten children per couple!”

    Per ‘couple’. Heh.

  144. @Hail

    white supremacy definitely causes people to put condom free dicks up their butts. It’s one of the most well known built in features of white supremacy.

    • Replies: @Oswald Spengler
  145. El Dato says:

    OT: Quillette’s Any Ngo targeted by Antifa fast zombies in Portland, nastily beaten up:

    Antifa’s Brutal Assault on Andy Ngo Is a Wake-Up Call—for Authorities and Journalists Alike

    This vignette is telling, because it points to the base motivations of many Antifa members—which seem to consist of glorifying themselves as freedom fighters on social media, and shutting down anyone who challenges their vainglorious narrative. Which brings us back to the reason Antifa activists were so eager to beat up our colleague Andy Ngo, a Portland resident who has been relentless in exposing the true face of Antifa. They attacked him for the simple reason that he has challenged their ideological propaganda—an Antifa tactic that any true fascist would recognize and applaud.

    It’s not as if “true fascists” were ever fighting “protesting” red mobs out to shred&rebuild society.

    Following the hate-killing of Heather Heyer by James A. Fields Jr. in Charlottesville, Virginia two years ago, attention was drawn to the problem of right-wing political violence.

    Swallowing the propaganda wholesale.

    Quillette is not straight.

  146. DuanDiRen says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    +1.

    The only thing I can think to do is buy actual books. I am making a concerted effort to buy books that are in danger of being disappeared, and to store them for my children. I suspect that their are a lot of books that were published in the 80s and 90s that will be beyond the pale for public consumption in the near future: The Man who would be Queen, Demonic Males, Principals of Population Genetics, Malvina Hoffman…

  147. @Bruno

    You are making a bad inference there because you are missing underlying facts, Bruno. That is, the method of transmission is different with AIDS vs. the common other STDs. AIDS is transmitted via blood. No blood exchanges “hands” during regular sex, but the common STDs of course can be transmitted.

    Gay sex, OTOH, involves, well, I don’t want to get into details, but more blood can be mixed …

    It’d stand to reason that when straight people are promiscuous, the common STDs would spread around, but AIDs would not. For Gay people, I suppose it could be both, but I think many STDs involve the women parts more, as they are like moist, comfortable petri dishes.

    • Agree: Bruno
  148. El Dato says:

    OT: My black narcissism & victim-signalling detector is suspiciously redlining

    ‘I’d compare my life with Jesus, I’ve been crucified’ – Semenya on IAAF testosterone battle

    Caster Semenya says testosterone case against IAAF has ‘destroyed’ her ‘mentally and physically’

    Afterwards, she told the BBC that she was being “crucified” amid her battle with the IAAF and said it was destroying her “physically and mentally.”

    “I cannot say I’ve been victimized. I think I set an example,” she said.

    “I think I’m in this world for a reason. I think I am a living testimony. I would say I’m a savior.

    “If you read the Bible you will understand what I’m talking about. If I may compare my life, I would compare my life with Jesus. I’ve been crucified, I’ve been done bad.

    “But at the end of the day I’m still here, am still alive. I am still standing,” she added defiantly.

  149. Pericles says:

    One of the reasons I am in favor of gay marriage is because some gays will raise families.

    ‘Two dads are better than one’: the reason why Russia doesn’t do gay adoptions anymore, and good for them. Nauseating.
    https://archive.org/details/TwoDadsAreBetterThanOne

    ‘Satan in baby grow’: “The [baby] girl died after months of assaults and abuse by [gay adoptive father] Scully-Hicks, the court heard”
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4962982/Gay-father-killed-adopted-daughter.html

  150. gregor says:
    @doxmenot

    That number is also quoted in the 1982 NYT GRIDs article. We don’t know the exact numbers today and probably will never be told, but it’s undoubtedy high.

    The CDC actually has published transmission rates by risk factor and the risk is far lower than what most would assume. The risk of transmission from a woman to a man is only 4 per 10,000 exposures. Receptive anal intercourse is the highest risk sexual practice and even that is only 138 per 10,000 exposures. Needless to say the number of “exposures” must be quite high. This would mean that on average you’d expect someone to have taken around six dozen poz loads before becoming infected, plus they’ve presumably had “neg” partners, etc. So the partner count is likely in the hundreds.

    Of course, in Hollywood movies like Philadelphia, Tom Hanks is in a committed relationship and gets HIV from a single instance of infidelity. Riiiiiight.

    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/estimates/riskbehaviors.html

  151. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Mr. Massage, you have pretty good comments on other subjects. You can’t go bullshitting people on here though.

  152. Gordo says:
    @countenance

    AIDS was in the United States and specifically in St. Louis by 1966.

    There was a locally famous case of a black teenager in St. Louis by the name of Robert Rayford who died of a then mysterious ailment in 1969 at the age of 16. Once AIDS was discovered and became better understood, researchers went back and found out that AIDS is what did Rayford in. His symptoms started appearing in 1966.

    Never confirmed by a PCR test, please link if I am wrong here, Western Blot had many false positives.

    There was a family history of similar wasting illnesses.

    Almost certainly not HIV

  153. Mr. Anon says:
    @Nick Diaz

    Calm down, nitwit.

    You want to live in a society run by-and-for homosexuals? Go do so. Leave us out of it. Normal, decent people don’t want that. For the simple reason that a society run to suit the deviant proclivities of homosexuals would be (is, as we are finding out) sh**ty, awful, and dysfunctional.

  154. @Veracitor

    I wonder if Mayor Pete Buttplug’s married because it makes him look relatively respectable?

    TV shows like “Modern Family” present “married” gay couples as very like straight couples, except, in this case, the couple consists of two men. The reality is that even “committed” male gay couples don’t value fidelity and most “marriages” are short-lived. Gay marriage is more popular with lesbians, anyway.

  155. @Jim Christian

    Joe Sobran once observed that that human anus is a poop shoot – stuff is supposed to come out, not go in.

    • LOL: jim jones
  156. El Dato says:
    @countenance

    What can we conclude from this?

    Possibilities:

    1 Different virus (e.g. bitten by monkey with SIV)
    2 Same virus before mutation
    3 Pretty much HIV in ’66 which for some reason didn’t break out of its reservoir
    4 No virus but a problem with M. Rayfords immune system
    4 Other?

    There should be more cases than a single black teenager dying at 16.

    Otherwise it’s a case w/o any interest because nothing scientific can be be built on “freak events”.

  157. @Nick Diaz

    Well, you guys are out of the closet now and it hasn’t seemed to change anything about your behavior. The closet was so terrible that you drilled a hole in the side to share new strains of gonorrhea through, and incorporated it into your ‘culture.’ The glory holes and bathhouses remain, supplemented by modern innovations in viral delivery like Grindr. Homosexual promiscuity and willful risk-taking behavior have increased; I’m told it’s only fair (a civil rights issue, no less) that the cost of developing, producing and administering expensive treatments for those afflicted by AIDS be borne by society at large- when the alternative is subjecting the gays to the onerous and unbearable burden of not exposing one’s anal lining to hundreds of strangers without a condom.

    You know who doesn’t care about the lives of gay men? Gay men. It’s not the straights dragging you to 200 sexual encounters with complete strangers a year. Thanks for making Barnes & Noble have to send security personnel to sweep the bathroom a few times an hour!

  158. @Anon

    In cultures that tolerate homosexual activity (e.g., the Moslem world), the accepted relationship is an older man with a boy or very young man. A 30-year-old man and a 12-year-old boy would be acceptable; two 30-year-old men would be considered sick.

    Men have also been universally expected to marry women and have children. In the Moslem world, only the most ardent fundie would object if a married man with children kept a harem of boys on the side.

    In other words, homosexual activity is acceptable as a side dish, not the main course. That’s what’s unique in today’s world.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  159. Anon[331] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles_Martel

    What’s wrong with Haitians? Some, I assume, are good men.

  160. Gordo says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Many years ago I read in New Scientist, a British publication, that the tissues of an English sailor who died in London in 1959 was shown to have been a death by AIDS.

    Later discovered to not be HIV, lab contamination of one sort or another.

    What is now called Idiopathic CD4 positive T-lymphocytopenia.

    There was one true early, early outbreak in the West, in Norway, centred around a sailor called Arne Vidar Røed who visited Africa in the 60’s, died 1976.

    Instead of a gay flight attendant in the 70s, had luck gone another way AIDS could have come to the US with the British Invasion, spreading through young people with sex and IV drug use.

    Male homosexual practices are a particularly efficient vector.

  161. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jim Christian

    A notable thing about all the pharma ads on TV – none of the people in them look remotely sick. They all seem to be in telegenic good health. They look nothing like the sort of people you see in a hospital waiting room.

  162. Gordo says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    George Michael’s boyfriend died of AIDS, but somehow George never got infected? There may still be a lot about HIV that is not being explained correctly.

    A certain percentage, no-one seems sure, maybe 5%, maybe 15% of North West Europeans have the CCR5-delta32 mutation, which confers immunity to HIV. Dunno if that is the case here because, thinking about it, George was a Greek Cypriot.

    Some-one with more knowledge might like to chime in on how this mutation works and where it might have come from.

    Since SSAs have no immunity it’s clearly a new-ish disease.

  163. StephenC says:

    Thw older I get the more tolerant I become of the notion that AIDS is just God’s way of telling homosexuals to please stop being so gay.

    • Agree: Dtbb
    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  164. @Paleo Liberal

    Regarding long-haul truckers, I read that that’s how it was spread in Botswana and India.

    There is a theory that one of Columbus’ sailors introduced a virulent form of syphilis to Europe in 1493 and it quickly spread via sailors and prostitutes, leading to a breakout in China in 1503.

    • Replies: @Discordiax
  165. @Hypnotoad666

    If the disease, by contrast, had struck only, say, little girls, we would have imposed an emergency quarantine or whatever other steps were required to save all lives possible.

    Well, unless it only struck little girls who were molested by Hollywood pedophiles, in which case the connection would remain a total mystery.

  166. ken says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I know everyone is scared of Big Gay and now Corporate Gay, but I’m always amazed that the medical community is so silent on the damage from anal penetration.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @guest
  167. @Fen Tiger

    Not only the promiscuity, but the ability to have several partners in an evening was the result of using drugs that enhanced sexual performance. It was the thesis of the researcher Peter Duesberg that that drug use was the cause of the rare cancers that gay men were getting. Yes, I know that the Wikipedia article on Duesberg says that that thesis has been discredited, but I do not trust the science in any area that has strong political repercussions.

  168. @Anon

    I’ve often wondered whether HIV has been around a very long time, and is one of the reasons for the taboo on homosexual conduct. As long as homosexuals were forced to stay “in the closet,” the rate of HIV transmission was pretty low. But when homosexuality became publicly acceptable, the high levels of promiscuity in the homosexual community started resulting in large numbers of deaths. People noticed.

  169. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Thanks for pointing out that

    originally called

    means just that. Looks like you need to lose a few IQ points to understand reality.

  170. Bill B. says:
    @Michael S

    In Africa untreated general diseases exacerbated by the African penchant for dry sex (unlubricated intercourse) that is held to be more rewarding. African prostitutes are said to use powders to dry the necessary machinery for the benefit of their clients.

  171. Bill B. says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Well Trump’s pretty gay about building the wall.

  172. Carol says:
    @Bruno

    There was an old crank virologist at Berkeley who claimed African AIDS was just a renaming of third world diseases SSAs have always gotten, and that the level of HIV has always been rather constant.

    He said e.g. that Africans didn’t tend to get Kaposi’s Sarcoma. I don’t know if that’s true.

    The purpose of the renaming was to create hysteria, pour more money into Africa and get them to wear condoms. You see how that worked out.

    Anyway, Prof. Deusburg as been duly quarantined by the university.

  173. peterike says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    The government and medical institutions failed to respond; the media failed to report on the topic, pressure the government for funds, and help deliver public health warnings; blood banks refused to heed warnings from scientists.

    This is straight up idiocy. The media drumbeat on AIDS was non-stop. Of course, much of it was deliberate disinformation (“it’s going to infect the straight community any day now!”), but to suggest there was some plot to keep the story hidden is ludicrous. It was inescapable.

    Politicians were carping about it all over the place. Demands for ever increased research funding were furious, as over-the-top as any 2019 SJW moral panic. The problem with the medical side was gay and Leftist opposition to sensible health procedures. The obvious response was to quarantine victims to stop the spread, but anyone who brought this up was immediately shouted down as a bigot by media and Liberal politicians. The medical response was 100% distorted by the politics of AIDS and was ineffective as a result. Gay activists and Liberals have tremendous amounts of blood on their hands.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  174. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    AIDS was caused by a

    AIDS is caused by a virus. The spread of it is something entirely different as the other commenters point out.

  175. jay says:
    @Charles_Martel

    “The Anus IS NOT a sex organ” as some would say.

  176. Lugash says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    One of the early ACTUP leaders was Trump’s publicist.

  177. JMcG says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    If , say, breast cancer or prostate cancer had received the attention and funding that AIDS has, how many people would be alive now that have died from those diseases?
    After the initial innocents died from infected blood transfusions, no one has to contract AIDS any longer unless they wish to. That’s the cold hard fact.

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
  178. JMcG says:
    @Michael S

    Rape is a big one there. Anything that causes open wounds in mucous tissue will do it.

  179. JMcG says:
    @Daniel H

    Agreed 100%. I think 60 minutes did a show on how AIDS infected gays were quarantined in Cuba. The cognitive dissonance among my lefty acquaintances was palpable.

  180. JMcG says:
    @Bruno

    Anecdotally true. A LOT of the young guys I work with have had syphilis and/or gonorrhea. I was stricken dumb when I heard them discussing it once. It didn’t seem to faze them in the slightest.
    What a mess we’ve made of things.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
  181. Eighthman says:

    AIDS was transmitted by anal sex, largely. I was disgusted by all the talk about “safe sex” that failed to zero in on the primary means of transmission. I was also shocked in reading “Boys In The Band” that seemed to barely mention this at all. And I was also disgusted, years ago, by Robert Bazell ( NBC Science Editor) who seemed embarrassed on air by mentioning anal sex as transmitting the disease.

    I recall that a study of hemophiliacs who caught AIDS via transfusion showed a dramatic difference on whether or not their wives got AIDS came down to vaginal vs anal sex.

    Nature doesn’t care about any of us – and disease is part of nature.

    All That Said, Did AIDS research show us something very important about medical progress? Is it possible that all the near violence and protest by Act Up helped to accelerate drug development, over what it would have been otherwise? I wonder. And if so, what might be accomplished against cancer, etc., if people acted similarly.

  182. JMcG says:
    @Jim Christian

    I believe the first documented case was that of a British sailor in the thirties. I don’t really pay much attention to the whole subject anymore, so that might no longer be true.

  183. Rosie says:
    @Precious

    The testing for AIDS in Africa is a joke. Africans know that if they tell Westerners that they have a lot of malaria cases, they get a small trickle of money. But if they tell Westerners they have a lot of AIDS cases, then lots of money gets sent. So they have AIDS instead of the hundreds of other diseases that have been prevalent in Africa since time immemorial.

    I wonder how much of it has to do with prostitution. The human vagina is not optimized for sex with 20-30 undesired men per day. Honestly, it hurts just thinking about it. Imagine all the dryness and tearing!

    Also, sadly, there is this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sex

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @BB753
  184. JMcG says:
    @Nick Diaz

    I’d block your comments, but I get a chuckle every time you come around stamping your feet and shaking your finger at our host.

  185. Marcus says:
    @doxmenot

    They refused to tone down their hyper-promiscuous lifestyle despite warnings in the 1980s. Also Stonewall was a mafia operation, which is why it was raided, not homophobia.

  186. @Colin Wright

    If you’re a white or asian heterosexual man, you don’t even show up on the CDC new HIV infections chart. So yes, you might as well worry about a shark attack. I suspect truly straight black men have a fairly low risk as well and they’re just playing loose with the term straight but I could be mistaken

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  187. @doxmenot

    Back when in the early 90s, you could still find some college 101 sociology (or other social science textbooks) that would acknowledge the fact that gay men were incredibily promiscuous. I imagine that info is now reserved for grad students.

    Oh, and I don’t trust what gay men say on this issue, only what I’ve observed among gays I know, is that there is no such thing as a monogamous male gay couple.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Anonymous
  188. @jim jones

    People watch a lot of TV.

    ipso, facto, and all that ….

  189. ken says:
    @Paleo Retiree

    Great post. Seem to remember reading years back that butt penetration wasn’t very common until recent decades. Intercrural intercourse (dick between another man’s thighs) was much more practiced. And now I have to figure out why I’m spending so much time looking into homo conduct.

  190. @gcochran

    In the US, ~55% of cases

    I don’t believe that for a second. No … freaking … way. Even now, there are still a lot of closeted gays who won’t cop to having taken it up the poop chute (looking at you, Magic).

    Basically, the suspension of disbelief is similar to this:

  191. @Niccolo Salo

    I had also been diagnosed with the following diseases: innumerable bouts of gonorrhea of the throat, penis and anus; syphilis; non-specific urethritis; chalymidia; candida albicans; endless episodes of entamoeba histolytica, giardia lamblia; salmonella; shigella; hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and hepatitis non-A, non-B; venereal warts; herpes simplex Types I and II; Epstein-Barr reactivations; repeated cytomegalovirus infections; disseminated varicella zoster (shingles); and finally, cryptosporidiosis and AIDS.

    Holy shit!

    I should be glad that just “my elbow hurts when I do this”.*

    BTW, for readers, that was from Mr. Salo’s excerpt, not his own words!

    .

    * I know, I know, I already made out a check for the $135 copay to have the Doc tell me “Don’t do that.”

  192. JR Ewing says:

    Google won’t let you search for ANYTHING negative about homosexuality. Even if it’s more of a scientific or intellectual search and not necessarily mean-spirited. I’ve tried many times to earnestly find mentions of certain questions and opinions and have never found anything but pro-gay propaganda.

    Usually they’ll send back links to pages or message boards that discuss why it’s wrong in the first place to even be asking that particular question or a Daily Beast or Huffpo or whatever link about “hateful questions” etc etc. But you’ll never get a link to a non-gay friendly site or honest discussion, much less an alt-right or realist website. Never.

    The main effect of this is to suppress information but an important secondary effect is that it can ostracize the questioner and make him feel like he’s all alone asking these forbidden questions so maybe there is something wrong with him for thinking so outside of the box.

    Google will argue that “the algorithm” is sending those results because the pro-gay sites are much more popular and everything is based off of hit rate, but that explanation doesn’t match up with a political culture that’s still very close to 50/50 and when you know there are anti-gay discussions out there that could be linked to but aren’t. These search reports are being purposely repressed and ignored, not just overlooked because they are insignificant.

    It’s very very insidious.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Anonymous
  193. On the bright side, Gulag doesn’t even pretend anymore.

    Still, premature. A miscalculation.

    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
  194. @Coag

    As LePen accurately observed, gays are like salt in soup — too little salt and the soup is bland and unpalatable, too much salt and the soup is also ruined.

    If you’re just talking about society in general, I suppose that’s a reasonable thing to say. As for the sexual aspect, let me tell you, Frenchie, I’d rather have high blood pressure than a ____ up my ass.

  195. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Paleo Liberal

    One of the reasons I am in favor of gay marriage is because some gays will raise families.

    That’s precisely the reason you should oppose homosexual marriage. The risks of children being psychologically screwed up are just way too high. Especially with lesbian parents. And don’t forget the incredibly high rates of lesbian domestic violence – not a good environment for child-rearing.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    , @Pericles
  196. @Peter Akuleyev

    Who says that George Michael never got infected? He was entering the age where the HIV medications take a severe toll on your body, such as hunchbacks forming or organs shutting down. In the months prior to his death George Michael was ballooning in weight.

    The toxicity of the various HIV cocktails starts to greatly impact the men who have been on them for decades as they enter their early to mid 50s. Their bodies start breaking down.

  197. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Rosie

    I wonder how much of it has to do with prostitution.

    Probably not much.

    Haven’t AIDS rates always been surprisingly very low among female prostitutes?

    In Africa you’ve just got so many unfortunate sexual practices. It’s pretty much a perfect storm.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Jonathan Silber
  198. Precious says:
    @Nick Diaz

    First of all, you couldn’t care less about the lives of gay men. That is just an excuse from you to jusitify keeping gay men forcefully in the closet so as to not get in the way of your ideal Society of married straight people with kids.

    Minor correction, we just want a functioning, sane society, not an ideal one. We can’t get that until you nutjobs are back in the closet.

  199. Anonymous[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @Veracitor

    Right. Follow the money. Always.

  200. Bubba says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Dr. Peter Duesberg, a modern day Galileo, is a professor of molecular biology at UC Berkeley and an expert on retroviruses.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-05-21-vw-2451-story,amp.html

    He authored an excellent book in 1996 called Inventing the AIDS Virus. Prior to that he wrote a paper in ‘91 or ‘92 that was published in The Heritage Foundation magazine (which I can no longer find the link to) that argued the AIDS retrovirus was just a marker and could not be responsible for the the death of anyone who had it. Here is a link to a similar article in ‘95.

    https://www.the-scientist.com/opinion-old/duesberg-on-aids-causation-the-culprit-is-noncontagious-risk-factors-58592/amp

    If I recall Dr. Duesberg correctly, one thing he stated was that the AIDS virus violates Koch’s Postulates on infectious diseases. Here is his old website that is still (miraculously) online. https://www.duesberg.com/

    Anyway, Dr. Duesberg’s lab was defunded and he no longer studies retroviruses for his sins against the High Church of Globohomoism.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    , @gcochran
    , @Coag
  201. Sparkon says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    There may still be a lot about HIV that is not being explained correctly.

    Things that sneak up on you from behind:

    In 1978–1981, the CDC conducted a hepatitis B vaccine experiment on homosexual men living in New York City, San Francisco and Los Angeles. HIV/AIDS was first detected among the participants in the CDC hepatitis B vaccine trial and quickly spread throughout the gay community in those cities. […]

    Dissidents who have studied the available published data are convinced that this ill-conceived experiment precipitated the devastating AIDS epidemic in America’s homosexual community. The gay men in the experiment were injected with a vaccine that had been made using human hepatitis B infected blood which was injected into chimpanzees known to be infected with the cancer causing simian virus 40 (SV40); the virus that had contaminated the polio vaccine.

    Before these CDC experiments there were no reported cases of HIV or AIDS in America. The AIDS epidemic was officially declared by CDC in 1981, at the conclusion of the experiment. Yet, in the NEJM published report (1980) researchers proclaimed the vaccine “safe and incidence of side effects low,” and claimed a 96% success rate. They failed to mention the emergence of a new disease affecting some of the subjects.

    1978–1981: Is HIV-AIDS linked to CDC’s Hepatitis B Vaccine Experiment?

    After AIDS began to spread, there was an effort in the MSM to “democratize” AIDS so that heterosexuals could feel at risk too, and indeed some probably were who engaged in various “risky behaviors” with bisexual men, drug addicts, and their partners.

  202. “We sometimes forget how that farce ripped us apart and exacerbated the other insanities to which you (correctly) allude . . .”

    Save that allusion would be incorrect. It was nit the Vietnam conflict/war. it was the careless rhetoric used to describe what it was about and which party were the aggressors and the aggressors in every way were the North Vietnamese and their supporters.

    I think the death tolls for the Vietnamese on both sides were higher. But the turn was not on the battlefield or the country but in the academic classroom of the US and of course the already fracturing US identity and loyalty to the same.

  203. @JR Ewing

    If you want world peace and don’t want a population explosion you’ve got to replace war deaths somehow. Thus was the Poz born and thus does it propagate.

  204. @South Texas Guy

    You’ve got the odd lesbian bed death case like Mayor Pete.

  205. If one takes a look at the specifics of the Stonewall incident, one will find that the issue was not really same sex relations, but economic. The local pub which catered to the community was influenced if not owned and operated by the local “mafia”. The management made a decision to discourage those who chose same sex expression. In response some who so engaged opened a pub of their own. As it became popular it drained away some business. The new establishment seeking to stay as low key as possible operated without a license or liquor license a process that operated as a small cash cow on its own. They also catered to minors.

    In a bid to limit competition they older established management ratted the new comers out and upon investigation, it turned out they did not have a liquor license and they did cater to minors — against the law regardless of who one engaged in square dancing with. They were shit down. Instead of filing suit for the unfair barriers in getting a liquor license and thereby breaking the monopoly, the liberals (nothing new here) started a violent protest. Unlike the case for blacks where the community responded to the government engaged in violence as extreme as murder against them. The crowd in Stonewall went off the rails over liquor license and selling alcohol to minors.

    And in keeping with agitating and false advertising they billed the incident as a political protest over same gender relations as opposed to the emotional knee jerk reaction it was and remains.

  206. @Hypnotoad666

    “We’re just lucky the scientists came through in relatively short order. Or who knows what the death toll would have been.”

    As Stalin would say, that depends on just who is lucky and who is luckless.

    And speaking of scientists, I wonder just what the diversity breakdown was in the ranks of the scientists who pursued AIDs research.

  207. I wonder how much of it has to do with prostitution. The human vagina is not optimized for sex with 20-30 undesired men per day. Honestly, it hurts just thinking about it. Imagine all the dryness and tearing!

    20 to 30 men per day? I have a few sex worker friends (let’s not go into how that might’ve happened for right now), and I’d say you’re over by a factor of at least 15X on those numbers. The ladies I know have a few appointments a week. Because of this level of business, they typically have “straight” jobs as well, in order to pay bills, feed and clothe kids, etc.

    The “undesired” part is fully accurate. But there is such a thing as lube, and they use it as needed.

    • Replies: @Olorin
  208. @Paleo Liberal

    It is wrong to bring a child into the world intentionally bereft of a parent, whether mother or father.

    Finis.

  209. @BigDickNick

    It lends an entirely new meaning to the age-old complaint of “getting sctewed over by The Man.”

  210. Rosie says:
    @dfordoom

    Haven’t AIDS rates always been surprisingly very low among female prostitutes?

    No. HIV is rife among prostitutes in Asia. For example…

    https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020216

  211. @Mark P Miller

    “Still, premature. A miscalculation.”

    Is there a proper literary device term for that little nugget of wordsmithing?

  212. “We were still having sex in the decades prior, FYI. I’d encourage you to read ‘And the Band Played On’ by Randy Shilts, one of the definitive texts on the early days of the AIDS epidemic.”

    And its a complete indict of the community’s refusal to respond to the fact that the HIV was transmitted via unprotected relations. The community refused to shut down or even warn bath houses etc.

    As the nexus point of the spread, they clearly are the responsible party in aggravating the same. And do be honest very few people were terminated for engaging in this behavior even if said people were suspected or known to do so. As for arrests, those arrests were for engaging relational behavior in public spaces and soliciting the same.

    Arrested alongside prostitutes, drug dealers etc.,

  213. peterike says:

    This Tom Bethell article from 2000 is pretty definitive about how the AIDS “crisis” in Africa was invented by that old Leftist standby: moving the goal posts. Short version: they defined a simple cluster of common African symptoms — “prolonged fevers (for a month or more), weight loss of 10 percent or greater, and prolonged diarrhea” — as “AIDS,” without actually giving an HIV test.

    Add some laughable extrapolations to the mix, and you’ve got your “crisis,” delivered on demand, just like they wanted it. Really, read this:

    https://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/tbafrica.htm

    • Replies: @gcochran
  214. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Around 1987 or so I was the lead epidemiologist/modeler on a team that was developing a model to forecast the ultimate cost of AIDS/HIV to the federal health care system. Based on that experience, I have several observations.

    First, the paucity of data available even then made it difficult to determine exactly what was going on. The insanely stupid privacy considerations still active today made it difficult to collect or obtain useful epidemiological data.

    Second, homosexual activists, then and now, are responsible for this.

    Third, homosexual activists were then still promoting the idea that AIDS/HIV was a disease to which all were susceptible and which sooner or later was going to spread throughout the population. The most widely used and publicized models of the spread of AIDS, in use at that time, adopted this idea and used a simple logistic model to predict the course of the disease. The numbers thus generated were ridiculously large and obviously of no predictive value. Yet these were used as official projections and estimates to promulgate the propaganda of homosexual activists.

    We developed a very different model based on two fundamental ideas:

    (1) AIDS/HIV was a slow virus and at the population level its spread was best modeled by some type of convolution equation, like a Lotka-Volterra Equation. In simpler terms, in individuals the course of the disease from infection, to onset of full blown symptoms, to death occurred over many years and this was reflected at the population level.

    (2) The spread of AIDS occurred in different ways and at different speeds in different populations, e.g., homosexuals, injection drug users, bisexuals, and the rest of the population. There would be very limited transmission across these different populations and essentially none into the general population.

    Our model predicted orders of magnitude less future HIV/AIDS infections, symptomatic cases, and deaths than the logistic models being used at the time. It was ignored and our federal contract officer wasn’t pleased. Several years later the same officer informed us that he had gotten kudos when the projections of our model forward to that time were orders of magnitude more correct than the older logistic models. The software we had created was quietly adopted for future projections.

    This was my last work on AIDS/HIV. I’ve no idea how things have progressed since then. However, I still remember being amazed at how successfully the homosexual lobby was at obscuring the fundamental relation between homosexual behavior and AIDS, and this despite the further havoc such obscurantism wreaked within the broader homosexual community.

  215. Rusty says:
    @Niccolo Salo

    It should be noted that Callen was effectively blacklisted by the gay community for having the gall to point out risky behaviors.
    Callen visited NY bathhouses in mid 80’s when AIDS was well known, and found that the risky behaviors were still taking place and that warning posters that he had advocated were not only ignored but actively suppressed by the leadership in the gay community. The way he describes it, sodomy was liberation, sodomy was revolution – any attempt to restrict the revolution immediately made you an outcast.

  216. CCZ says:
    @Clifford Brown

    But for west of the Hudson homosexuals: “A problem at a main-line rail bridge in Newark led to big slowdowns Sunday by NJ Transit and Amtrak, delaying many who planned to participate in the massive Pride Parade marches through New York City. Trains were running on a 30-minute delay in and out of New York Penn Station due to “track issues” on the Amtrak Dock Bridge in Newark, a NJ Transit spokeswoman reported.”

    Homosexuals took to Twitter to vehemently demand: “Stop doing the gays dirty. You knew it was world pride today.”

    • Replies: @Lurker
  217. anon[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Retiree

    Unprotected buttfucking and wildly promiscuous sex were symbolically very important to the GayLib movement.

    There you have it. Occam’s butterknife.

    As long as we are naming unspeakable acts, buttfucking has morphed into the practice referred to as “barebacking”. Differing because full knowledge of the dangers is part of the appeal. It is considered a fettish by some.

    But that was pre PrEP/Truvada.

    Lets just say that barebacking is an evolving practice. It never ends.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  218. Carol says:
    @Jim Christian

    The 1776 bicentennial gathering of sailing ships in NY harbor apparently was where the epidemic really going.

  219. @everybodyhatesscott

    ‘I suspect truly straight black men have a fairly low risk as well and they’re just playing loose with the term straight but I could be mistaken’

    One wonders. As I mentioned, the AIDS rates in black Africa are literally an order of magnitude higher than they are anywhere else. I’m happy to believe awful things about black behavior — but it seems to me that a difference like that must have a physiological cause.

    …or perhaps all the clitorectomies have something to do with it? Here, one could look at groups that don’t practice female genital mutilation and see if the rates are radically different.

    • Replies: @Lot
  220. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Denial is not just a river in Africa.

  221. Carol says:
    @james wilson

    And gee now they got everyone doing it

    Glad I’m old.

  222. There is one element about all this that strikes me as a bit incongruous.

    Back when all this got going, a fellow fisherman claimed that AIDS had to have been deliberately introduced.

    Look at the groups most vulnerable: homosexuals and blacks. Add intravenous drug users.

    Now, I don’t buy it. I’m congenitally averse to conspiracy theories. But many here are not. JFK, RFK, 9-11, Holocaust Denial, Pearl Harbor, Icebreaker — you name it, there’s a fan club here.

    So why isn’t anyone all for AIDS having been deliberately introduced in an attempt to get rid of blacks and homosexuals? It seems like a reasonably attractive theory to me.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  223. @PaceLaw

    Careful Steve, you can easily find yourself memory holed

    Still, that’s better than being glory-holed.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
  224. J.Ross says:

    >background techno music begins
    >Take off all of your clothes
    >Drive a car as fast as you can
    >Drive it deep into a shrubbery
    >Emerge from car, still naked
    >You are on a freeway
    >Freeway status confirmed by a car that hits you
    >Don’t worry, you’re still naked
    >Attempt to perform fellatio on yourself
    >somehow your spine still works and you fail
    >attack the police
    Where would you frail white people be without the contributions of the African American community? You’ll cowards don’t take PCP and you drive with your clothes on.
    https://www.nbc12.com/story/38187605/police-id-officer-who-shot-killed-man-body-camera-footage-to-be-released/

  225. @Tono Bungay

    Was the closet really miserable? What’s wrong with keeping one’s dark side in a safe space?

    “I just had to kill her, doc. If I hadn’t, I don’t know what I would have done.” –The estimable TD.

    I suspect plenty of these guys who went wild with promiscuity were deep in mental illness that would get some sort of name like sociopathy now.

  226. @Paleo Liberal

    Reproduction is a human right.

    The existence of marriage is evidence that it isn’t. What is marriage, if not a license to reproduce?

    Speaking out is a right; slander and libel are not. Worship is a right; human sacrifice is not. Deliberately depriving a child of his other parent is closer to a tort.

    You may ask, well what about adoption? But that’s analogous to amputation, or more precisely, to transplants. Only performed in an emergency.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  227. @nokangaroos

    In several African counties high-ranking government officials (such as the Minister of Health) spread the tale, that one could cure AIDS by sleeping with a virgin. This led to a stark increase in rapes of young girls in some parts of the continent.

  228. @Pericles

    I once read an article in a German magazine about men (mostly from countries such as Romania etc.), who worked as prostitutes in Germany. They admitted that the majority of their customers were men, but insisted, that they were not gay (most of them had girlfriends back in their home-countries)

  229. @Lucas McCrudy

    This was just as true of FDR two decades earlier. With the Old Left serving as the “recruiting tool”– for the war itself.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  230. @MikeatMikedotMike

    An acquaintance of mine works as steward for a German airline. He is straight, but says, that the majority of stewards are gay
    Once he was in Athens with a gay colleague, who used the time in Athens to go to a park, that was famous as a hotspot for gay sex. When my acquaintance asked him, how it had been, he answedered: “It’s Sodom and Gomorrha, it’s like paradise”.
    To me, this sums up the attitued of most gays towards casual sex.

  231. It was Reagan’s fault. After all, Frank Rich said so, so it must be true.

  232. @Gordo

    Maybe George was a pitcher not a catcher

    I assume that would effect his chances of getting infected

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  233. Kronos says:
    @anon19

    Perhaps, but I’m referring to movements that caused direct deaths. AIDS deaths, gang-related deaths, abortions, Vietnam War casualties. Something that will be listed on the death certificate. ( Or for abortion a CDC report.) Immigration had a indirect effect on the rise of prescription pain-killer deaths (read the book “Dreamland.”) Immigration levels are ludicrous, but not the best fit for this question.

  234. PaceLaw says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Remember that this whole gay marriage stuff kicked off on Obama’s watch. History will forever record him as the most pro-gay president ever.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1512794/amp

    • Replies: @Pericles
  235. @Nick Diaz

    “First of all, you couldn’t care less about the lives of gay men.”

    Typical drivel. Does the phrase non-sequitur mean anything to you? In what way does his opinion alter the facts?

    You’re not expecting him to behave like a liberal are you?

  236. @lavoisier

    A lot of innocent people died from this scourge because of the stupidity of the progressive left.

    Normally I read the “stupidity” of the Left as design. But in this rare instance it may indeed be stupidity, because it’s difficult to come up with a possible motive.

    If it was to encourage more spending on health care, they’d have chosen more sympathetic victims.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  237. @Charles_Martel

    AIDS was caused by the 4 H’s: homos, heroin, haitians, and hemophiliacs.

  238. @Anonymous

    HIV is spread by a “moon landing” of sorts.

  239. AKAHorace says:
    @Paleo Retiree

    Anal sex wasn’t that common back in the pre Gay Lib days. Pre Gay Lib, gay guys mostly blew each other or jerked each other off. Some of the older gays I knew found gay anal sex distasteful and had never, ever had it.

    There are many places where there is a long tradition of homosexuality (e.g. Afghanistan), but where one man in active (penetrating) the other passive. AIDs does not spread much in these circumstances.

  240. @dfordoom

    In Africa you’ve just got so many unfortunate sexual practices. It’s pretty much a perfect storm.

    And that storm is now headed our way.

  241. Gordo says:
    @Bubba

    Dr. Duesberg was repeatedly asked to inject himself with a purified sample of HIV, and always refused.

    Enough said about that chap.

  242. Dennis Dale says: • Website

    DuckDuckGo does much better, but I can’t figure out how to put a screenshot image here.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Kronos
  243. J.Ross says:
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Bugchasing in its normal usage is a modern nightmare phenomenon celebrating the gullibility of the medical establishment after AIDS but to be clear I’m talking about pre-AIDS deliberate infection. The immune system is not immortal and it is entirely possible to overwhelm it. In fact, were a person to overwhelm his immune system (by doing exactly what these guys were doing) it would look just like AIDS: otherwise healthy and very young men with no family history of disease dying from a minor ailment.

  244. J.Ross says:
    @Dennis Dale

    postimg.cc
    upload screenshot
    click it to get the shorter url
    paste url here
    https://postimg.cc/PC8gXmLf

    • Replies: @Kronos
  245. @anon19

    When researchers started interviewing gays who had AIDS, they were stunned at the number of “partners” many of them had had. Thousands. Randy Shilts’ book And The Band Played On is quite good. He eventually died of AIDS too.

  246. Lurker says:
    @CCZ

    A school joke I remember when AIDS first got fashionable.

    Q: How did AIDS get into America?

    A: Up the Hudson.

    • Replies: @CCZ
  247. res says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Nowadays the vast majority of people infected with HIV are not gay men.

    Citation? In the US that is certainly not the case.

    https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/overview/data-and-trends/statistics

    Gay and bisexual mend are the population most affected by HIV. In 2017:

    Gay and bisexual men accounted for 66% (25,748) of all HIV diagnoses and 82% of HIV diagnoses among males.e
    Black/African American gay and bisexual men accounted for the largest number of HIV diagnoses (9,807), followed by Hispanic/Latinos (7,436) and whites (6,982).

    Heterosexuals and people who inject drugs also continue to be affected by HIV. In 2017:

    Heterosexuals accounted for 24% of HIV diagnoses.f
    Heterosexual men accounted for 7% (2,829) of HIV diagnoses.
    Heterosexual women accounted for 16% (6,341) of HIV diagnoses.
    People who inject drugs accounted for 6% of HIV diagnoses.

    These numbers become more dramatic if you look at them per capita (~4.5% LGBT in US).

  248. @Paleo Liberal

    Reproduction is a human right. We can’t and should not stop it. What we can do is allow for the best possible situation under the circumstances to be legally sanctioned.

    Holy cow.

    Where do you get that “reproduction is a human right”?

    If it is in some personal autonomy sense, that certainly doesn’t mean that societies have to entertain your “right”. Support it. Acknowledge it. Give your child rights. Or even allowing you to stay in the society while practicing your “right”.

    Regulating reproduction so that it occurs in circumstances that actuallyreproduce civilized society is pretty much the one common factor that civilized societies do. I.e. the constrain reproduction so that it occurs in ways so that the next generation of people are capabale of and ready to carry the civilization on.

    ~~

    What we can do is allow for the best possible situation under the circumstances to be legally sanctioned.

    Correct.

    Which in every civilization in the history of man has meant that the only legal sanctioned reproduction is in heterosexual marriage. And that’s loose “civilization”, in all the highly successful civilizations the legal or practical norm is monogamous–one-per-customer-marriage.

  249. J.Ross says:

    Get this guy a room at the Dakota.
    https://www.rt.com/sport/463116-semenya-crucified-testosterone-case/
    Afterwards, she told the BBC that she was being “crucified” amid her battle with the IAAF and said it was destroying her “physically and mentally.”

    “I cannot say I’ve been victimized. I think I set an example,” she said.

    “I think I’m in this world for a reason. I think I am a living testimony. I would say I’m a savior.

    “If you read the Bible you will understand what I’m talking about. If I may compare my life, I would compare my life with Jesus. I’ve been crucified, I’ve been done bad.

  250. ken says:
    @jim jones

    Probably 20 cheerleaders for every homo during the past month.

  251. In California the official books for sex education for pupils praise anal sex as “safe sex”, because one cannot get pregnant.
    The utter depravity of this is mindblowing.
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/gay-liberation-caused-aids/#comment-3303708

  252. @Reg Cæsar

    a possible motive

    The usual. Eugenics.

  253. @Reg Cæsar

    If you want the moral equivalent of war fought, best man your armies with veterans of the real thing.

  254. Art Deco says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Nowadays the vast majority of people infected with HIV are not gay men.

    The Centers for Disease Control reports that 3/4 of new cases diagnosed are among homosexual and bisexual men. Better make sure they get the memo.

    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/overview/ataglance.html

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  255. @Charles_Martel

    Haiti was incredibly poor (generating refugees level poor), and was apparently a popular destination for sex tourism, gay and straight. Which created a disease vector among Haitians. Gay men, IV drug users, Haitians and prostitutes were the four “high risk groups” when we first started knowing anything about AIDS.

  256. Anonymous[324] • Disclaimer says:
    @South Texas Guy

    I am gay, and I have only had one partner in my life. Reading this thread makes me think it’s best to keep it that way.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
  257. CCZ says:
    @Lurker

    This will reveal me as a very bad person, but, in 1976, I knew a fellow graduate student who defined “GAYS” as “Got Aids Yet Stupid?”

  258. @JMcG

    What industry do you work In?

    • Replies: @JMcG
  259. gcochran says:
    @Bubba

    Duesberg was, and is, a loon.

    • Replies: @Jasper Been
  260. Anonymous[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    One hypothesis is that sloppy practice in the massive smallpox vaccination campaign inadvertently spread AIDS around Africa.

    I’ve seen this theory and it’s convincing. It’s an established fact that other, non-HIV, viruses crossed the species barrier due to careless vaccination practices in Africa, however it’s denied that HIV entered the human population the same way. Maybe. So long as the individuals involved in these vaccination programs remain alive, don’t expect anyone to look too closely at this.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  261. @doxmenot

    From page 131 – 132 of “And the Band Played On” by Randy Shilts, (gay) reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle – “A typical GRID case had sex with 1,100 men in his lifetime…”, from research by the CDC from the mid 1980s.

    Who knew this or reported it? I never heard it from any source – until I read the book.

    The Shilts book and this quote were pretty widely discussed on Usenet 20 years ago.

  262. @Charles_Martel

    The way I heard it was a little better:
    Q. What is the worst thing about having AIDS?
    A. Trying to convince your mother that you’re a Haitian!

  263. Jake says:
    @Anon000

    Stupid as all chicken shot anti-Russian Ukrainians: endless Gay Pride parades and rule by Jews who hate for your ethnicity and your religious heritage are what you get when you bow to the US and the UK, when you bow to the Anglo-Zionist Empire.

  264. Haole2 says:
    @Kronos

    Global homo(homogenized) culture is a curse.

  265. Doobie says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Homosexual advocates like to say AIDS isn’t a “gay” disease. BUT:

    In first-world countries the majority of people with AIDS acquired it through male homosexual acts. Other than IV-drug users, the vast majority of heterosexuals with AIDS got it from homosexuals, especially women having sex with homosexual men. Without homosexuals, AIDS would never have had a significant existence in the first-world. Indeed, homosexual men made AIDS an epidemic in America, as well as contributed disproportionately to the spread of other STDs.

    Purportedly, in Africa, AIDS is mostly a heterosexual disease. Africa isn’t very relevant to America. And, it’s not that Africa has a different HIV virus that America, so I don’t accept that heterosexuals in Africa just have less luck, or whatever nonsense homosexual advocates would use to explain the difference. Either way, AIDS is easily avoidable through moral behavior and sanitary medical conditions.

    Moral behavior excludes homosexual acts.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  266. Even back in the day it was quite clear to those who dared notice that the spread of AIDS was a direct result of the extreme promiscuity and filthy sexual practices of the so-called “gay community”.
    I wonder when we’ll see a statue erected to honor Gaëtan Dugas?

  267. @Pericles

    “The most damning part is perhaps after the medicine for holding back HIV had been developed at huge public expense: the ‘gays’ (oh yes, so joyous!) resumed and expanded their habits, they lobbied government into paying for their pills but also into giving them disability for contracting this eminently non-contractable disease, and, of course, in San Francisco giving someone HIV is no longer a crime.”

    this is the biggest problem. the homos never took responsibility and the left platformed them. blamed everybody else but the homos themselves. demanded every else pay so the homos could continue to just have as much casual random sex as they wanted. them again blamed everybody else when homos get antibiotic resistant (whatever). the people who NEVER have to change ANYTHING they’re doing: homos. who has to change? everybody else.

    “The homosexual community is particularly vulnerable to…” is like saying drug dealers are particularly vulnerable to gun violence, so let’s spend all of YOUR time and money getting out there to protect those precious drug dealers so they don’t get shot when they keep making drug deals every day.

    but in the broader picture, this is all the same stuff as what the cultural marxists are doing to the most productive members of society. hetero european men. taking all their productive output and assigning it like a resource to negative output groups. we’re supposed to spend all our time and energy making sure the homos don’t get HIV, making sure the africans don’t shoot each other, making sure mestizos don’t have to live in leftist socialist hellholes, making sure muslims can be high tech islamicists with running water and electricity and cell phones while they kill the infidels, making sure the chinese have awesome universities to take over that they couldn’t build themselves, and so on.

    • Replies: @Olorin
  268. Jake says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    You assume that Brit sailer got it from an African woman. Why? Buggery has a very long and important history in the English navy, merchant marine as well as warships. And back to at least the early 1800s, queer with an ability to get there went to the African continent for endless gay sex.

  269. El Dato says:
    @StephenC

    If you play the RNA backwards on a Reverse Transciptase, you can hear the message…

  270. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    When I was in Saudi Arabia, the popular saying for Arabs was “Women are for babies, boys are for pleasure.”

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  271. Lot says:

    Sign me up for the Yang Gang, at least on the primary.

    Andy Ngo is a Quillette reporter recently attacked by Portland antifa.

    Andy’s gay, so on topic!

    • Agree: Desiderius
  272. @Paleo Liberal

    Reproduction = a human right. LOL

    Are you one of those incels I keep hearing about ?

    Do you think there should be a government program to ensure everyone gets to exercise his/her rights

  273. Marcus says:

    OT: I just saw a title of a new WaPo piece

    Why we resist Holocaust analogies– and why it’s time to embrace them

    (since the Jews were marching to the camps and all). How will this victimhood turf war pan out? I think the huge majority of Juice will be ok with it tbh, sticking it to YT is worth cheapening the $hoah a little

    • Replies: @CCZ
    , @CCZ
  274. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    The Columbian Exchange syphilis epidemic hit Italy and France at the exact same time as a French invasion of the Kingdom of Naples–the French called it “the Italian disease”, the Italians called it “the French disease.

  275. ricpic says:

    I’ve never met a homosexual who has much to say about the world beyond homosexuality. That’s the real curse of being homosexual — the extreme limitation it imposes on almost all those who practice it.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  276. @Paleo Liberal

    “One of the reasons I am in favor of gay marriage is because some gays will raise families. Two loving mothers or two loving fathers ”

    Considering the overwhelming evidence that suggests homosexual men seek out careers and organizations that put them in contact with abundant amounts of teenage boys (priesthood, sports coaching, the Boy Scouts, and teaching) the idea of two homosexual men adopting a young boy should be sounding deafening alarm bells in your head.

  277. However it started and spread, it did!

  278. @Michael S

    I am hardly convinced that the spread of HIV in Africa isn’t also related to homosexual behavior there; it’s just much harder to track.

    Before hypothesizing about the “spread of HIV in Africa”, you should first confirm that there is such a phenomenon about which to hypothesize. Last I heard, “AIDS” in Africa is diagnosed without an HIV test.

  279. Polymath says:

    My mother was a nurse in the 50s and 60s, and entered medical school at age 35 in 1971. The promiscuous and unhygienic sexual and drug practices of her hippie classmates shocked her, and she shocked them by telling them they were going to bring on a plague.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  280. @dfordoom

    There is a very high rate of violence among male gay couples, too. I am concerned about a young boy being around the strange men his daddies bring home.

    On top of that, male gay “marriage” tends to be short-lived, too.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  281. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Wow. Just wow.

    The three biggest factors in the spread of AIDS were, in order of influence:
    Gay liberation;
    Gay liberation; and
    Gay liberation.

    Sex: During the 1970s, gay men were having anal sex with countless strangers a zillion times more often than before, in public places.

    Murder: When AIDS hit, numerous homosexuals became serial killers, deliberately infecting as many men as possible: Patient Zero, Rock Hudson, et al.

    Politics: Militant gay activists intimidated the public health authorities into throwing out rules (above all, forcible quarantine of people spreading plagues) that embodied hard-won knowledge accrued over the course of centuries. At the same time, gay activists and their political allies invented insane, malicious interpretations of “privacy” that caused the deaths of thousands of babies and their mothers. “Researchers” refused to tell new mothers that they were HIV+, so the mothers transmitted the virus to their babies through their breast milk. Mother and child would die a horrible, avoidable death.

    Hysteria: The homosexual “community’s” response: Blame Ronald Reagan. About a week after my August 26, 1985 return to America after five years in West Germany, I see a Hispanic guy dying of AIDS demonstrating on the evening news scream, “Ronald Reagan murdered me!”

  282. House says:
    @Paleo Retiree

    Very interesting. What are your thoughts on the documentary House of numbers?

  283. @AnotherDad

    Liberals think people have a right to do as they please and for their “right” to be subsidized by the taxpayer.

    Back in the 1960s, some activists successfully argued for non-fault divorce, even if minor children were involved. This was accepted by the general public. Easy divorce –> illegitimacy –> gays with kids.

    • Agree: GermanReader2, Thea
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  284. Dr. X says:
    @neprof

    The first of the seven deadly sins:

    Pride is excessive belief in one’s own abilities, that interferes with the individual’s recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise.

    Ironic the Gay movement uses Pride as its moniker.

    Not ironic at all. They’re neo-pagans… they revel in debauchery.

  285. Pericles says:
    @dfordoom

    Lesbians, eh? That reminds me: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5569973/Lesbian-couple-plunged-cliff-fled-home-targeted-KKK.html

    Two white lesbians with six adopted POC children drive off cliff on Pacific Coast Highway, no survivors. KKK in Minnesota somehow to blame.

  286. Coag says:
    @Bubba

    Is the modern day Galileo confident enough to test HIV with Koch’s postulates in himself?

    • Replies: @The Wobbly Guy
  287. Dennis Dale says: • Website
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    The idea that African immigrants were a factor on a par with promiscuity is laughable.
    Though I do approve of one sacralized minority throwing another under the bus to preserve their privilege.
    More, please.

  288. MattinAZ says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Gay man: I’m going to have sex with a bunch of men.
    Christian: Don’t. It’s wrong and you’ll get AIDS.
    Gay man: You ignorant bigot! AIDS isn’t a gay disease.
    [Gay man has sex with a bunch of men, gets AIDS.]
    Gay man: It’s Christians’ fault I got AIDS! Also, it’s Ronald Reagan’s fault there isn’t a cure for AIDS.

  289. Ibound1 says:

    It shouldn’t take Ronald Reagan or the government to make people understand that exposure to human waste is dangerous – with or without AIDS. Disease is spread through waste. That’s why we have expensive sewage systems. Did every gay person think bathrooms were for the wallpaper ?

  290. Clyde says:
    @Anon000

    we need a wft button at Unz

  291. Beliavsky says:

    Someone asked why doctors don’t speak about the health risks of sodomy. Here is a story about a doctor who has:

    https://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen3/17c/Dr-Church-expelled/index.html
    Dr. Paul Church now expelled from four Boston area hospitals – over comments to colleagues at one hospital about its promotion of unhealthy, high-risk LGBT lifestyle.
    Standing on principle while under pressure to repudiate facts.
    The ideological corruption in the medical profession defies belief.
    MassResistance
    August 7, 2017

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  292. Anonymous[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @JR Ewing

    For things like this you should use several search engines together not just one.

  293. @ricpic

    That’s one type. The other is hyperinterested in the world and not so much other people, especially women. He was once known as “clubbable.”

  294. @Nick Diaz

    ‘Gay liberation caused AIDS.” What a lying, moronic, stupid statement

    .

    Hit a little too close to home?

  295. Lot says:
    @Colin Wright

    Two big reasons heterosexual hiv is bigger in Africa.

    1. General poor health and weaker immune system makes each exposure to the virus more likely to be an infection.

    2. Steady interlocking polygamy patterns. A is a woman with three steady long-term lovers. Each of them has three different steady long term lovers. One of them gets it, and then in his 50th time having normal heterosexual sex with A he infects her. Over time she infects the other two, but maybe only after years. With such a pattern you can have high rate of heterosexual HIV despite low risk of heterosexual transmission.

  296. Clyde says:
    @Saxon

    Simply put, the male and female anus is not the right place to have sex. You can be gay or hetero but bad idea to stick yr dick in there. But go ahead and do it, poke, poke, poke and poke away at anuses, just don’t make me pay you via my tax burden for your idiocy and diseases.
    Poop chute means out, not in.

  297. Dull take, Steve. The spread of AIDS/HIV at the outset of gay liberation is a surmountable consequence, most immediately through awareness, but the freedom of gays to live authentic lives with the dignity of social acceptance in their identity and consensual adult activity is I’m sure a pretty damn valuable, enduring consequence for millions upon millions of people.

    It’s all about Philadelphia Freedom, wankers (above majority): you’ve got to put up with their flamboyant parades and such and they have to put up with your cretinous thought oozing out into public view through social media.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  298. Pericles says:
    @Colin Wright

    Wasn’t the leading conspiracy theory that CIA created AIDS? I see there are many pages that address this topic, including a debunking by the weed-loving hooker of Snopes.

  299. Pericles says:
    @PaceLaw

    Is it time for the rainbow White House again? (2015)

  300. Bruno says:
    @nokangaroos

    I doubt 70 IQ people could made that kind of (amusing) wrong inference. An a contrario reasoning it’s too complicated

  301. BB753 says:
    @Rosie

    Somebody explain to me the appeal of dry sex. On second thought, better not! Here in the West we practice dry spells without sex, not dry sex.

  302. BB753 says:
    @Lot

    Yet, Africans don’t seem to be dying in large numbers due to HIV! Are they somehow immune to it? Because HIV originated in Africa, as we know today.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
  303. Daniel H says:
    @Niccolo Salo

    By the age of 27, I had had an estimated 3,000 sex partners in bathhouses and backrooms. Not coincidentally, I had also been diagnosed with the following diseases: innumerable bouts of gonorrhea of the throat, penis and anus; syphilis; non-specific urethritis; chalymidia; candida albicans; endless episodes of entamoeba histolytica, giardia lamblia; salmonella; shigella; hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and hepatitis non-A, non-B; venereal warts; herpes simplex Types I and II; Epstein-Barr reactivations; repeated cytomegalovirus infections; disseminated varicella zoster (shingles); and finally, cryptosporidiosis and AIDS.

    But love is love.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  304. @Lot

    ‘Two big reasons heterosexual hiv is bigger in Africa…’

    Here’s an even bigger one; in fact, the self-evident one. Blacks are more susceptible to AIDS.

    Why is that so hard to accept? The explanation fits the evidence perfectly.

    • Replies: @Lot
  305. @Pericles

    A good point gay activists might make is question why men who had sex with other men cannot donate blood in the United States. As the Wikipedia article says…

    In the United States in 2005, MSM, African Americans, and persons engaging in high-risk heterosexual behavior accounted for respectively 49%, 49%, and 32% of new HIV diagnoses.[8] In 2009 in the United States, African Americans accounted for 47.9% of new HIV diagnoses reported that year, but represented approximately only 12% of the population.[9]

    Yet only men who had sex with other men are restricted from donating blood: blacks aren’t. What if blacks are actually underrepresented among men who had sex with other men? What if the percentage of blacks in the American population is not much higher than that of men who ever had sex with another man (who are not necessarily gay)? I don’t know if that’s the case, but if it is, why only restrict men who had sex with other men from donating blood? Why not restrict blacks as well? Or even men who had sex with high-risk women? Why not lift those blanket restrictions altogether?

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Pericles
  306. eah says:

    Gay Liberation caused AIDS

    Not really — see, although it’s not clear what you mean by “Gay Liberation” (you don’t define this term), it seems best to define it as the movement to de-stigmatize (in some locales also to de-criminalize) homosexuality — in that sense, “Gay Liberation” did not cause AIDS (which is, medically, and as the name says, a syndrome caused by a virus: HIV — assuming you believe that story) — what seems to have caused the spread of HIV is the rampant (not to mention disgusting) promiscuity of male homosexuals, including and especially anonymous promiscuity, eg in so-called “bath houses”.

    Whether or not there was the aforementioned rampant, anonymous male homosexual promiscuity before the “Gay Liberation” movement got started is, at least for me, an open question.

    So as defined above, “Gay Liberation” did not cause the AIDS epidemic — rampant anonymous male homosexual promiscuity (appears to have) caused the rapid spread of HIV, which (again: if you believe the official story, and not everyone does) caused the AIDS epidemic.

    • Replies: @guest
  307. CCZ says:
    @Marcus

    And from our friends at the Holocaust Museum:

    We Failed To Save Refugees From the Holocaust. We’re Failing Again Today.

    Nearly 26 million people today have been forced to flee their own countries, and many are literally dying to enter the promised land of America. The analogies to the past are imperfect. But the Holocaust museum’s exhibit examining American immigration policies during the Nazi period ought to remind us that we failed at this before, and we will be damned if we continue to fail at it again. … There is clearly something deep in the American psyche that persistently gives into the worst of human impulses, despite the facts, despite the reality, despite our self-identity as a welcoming nation of immigrants.

    https://forward.com/culture/426737/we-failed-to-save-refugees-from-the-holocaust-were-failing-again-today/

    • Replies: @anon19
    , @Pericles
  308. CCZ says:
    @Marcus

    And from our friends at the Holocaust Museum:

    We Failed To Save Refugees From the Holocaust. We’re Failing Again Today.

    Nearly 26 million people today have been forced to flee their own countries, and many are literally dying to enter the promised land of America. The analogies to the past are imperfect. But the Holocaust museum’s exhibit examining American immigration policies during the Nazi period ought to remind us that we failed at this before, and we will be damned if we continue to fail at it again. … There is clearly something deep in the American psyche that persistently gives into the worst of human impulses, despite the facts, despite the reality, despite our self-identity as a welcoming nation of immigrants.

    https://forward.com/culture/426737/we-failed-to-save-refugees-from-the-holocaust-were-failing-again-today/

  309. You should really consider removing this post as it’s everything your worst enemies accuse you of and it will allow them to ignore any good arguments you make.

    1. It’s just inaccurate. Let’s avoid the obvious fact that biological mutations, rather than social movements, cause diseases and pretend you’d written that gay liberation caused the AIDS epidemic rather than causing AIDS itself. You’d still be wrong. There were enough gay men, having enough unprotected sex in this country before gay liberation to allow the disease to get a significant foothold here. Would it have been smaller but for a movement that presumably led more men to have sex with more male partners? Presumably. But there are no good numbers as to how much gay sex increased in the years after Stonewall. There are certainly plenty of memoirs written about gay men in the 50s that show them having many, many sexual partners. (If you’d rather watch a movie than read memoirs, I’d recommend the very good “Prick up your ears.” ) So basically what you can say is “The gay rights movement almost certainly boosted AIDS deaths to some unknown degree and thus hurt the very community it was supposed to help, at least in its early days.”

    2. It oozes mean spiritedness. The fact that how people behaved after gay liberation probably increased the number of AIDS cases pretty significantly is neither here nor there to its merits as a movement. The rational corollary to the presumed increase in AIDS is “so gay men should have been far more cautious in the movement’s early days” rather than “so society should have continued to castigate openly gay people.” Assuming you’re not some religious nut who thinks God condemns homosexuality, there is no moral justification for denouncing them. There is only moral justification for insisting that the recognize the unique risks of anal sex (the anus tears far easier than the vagina, so anal sex spreads blood-borne diseases far easier) and handling them responsibly, just as we expect of people who engage in heterosexual sex.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  310. JR Ewing says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Wait, two gays in a “marriage” can reproduce? What?

    • Replies: @Bubba
  311. @CCZ

    Nobody has a right to come to this country. If these Jews care so much, send them to Israel.

  312. Kylie says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Yes, I read Zombie’s reports, mostly captioned photos, as I recall. What I found most shocking was not the acts themselves or even the normalizing of them by the participants (understandable if regrettable, most of us are normal to ourselves) but the enthusiastic approbation granted to this depravity by city officials.

  313. @ken

    “I’m always amazed that the medical community is so silent on the damage from anal penetration”

    I don’t think many medical professionals want to find a mob on their doorstep, but the data is out there, even if some of it’s from 1993. Like geriatric specialists, it’s going to be boom time for colorectal specialists and surgeons in a few years.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-analsex-incontinence/anal-sex-linked-to-increased-risk-of-incontinence-idUSKCN0VD2RH

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1293903/

    http://theoncologist.alphamedpress.org/content/12/5/524.full

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2090506812001121

    • Replies: @ken
  314. Paul says:

    Stonewall and the spread of homosexual pickup bars cost many gays their lives by AIDS. If any sense of heartfelt remembrance for their bedmates were to be shown, gays should be hanging black flags now, not gay flags. But these are especially hypocritical times.

  315. @Half Canadian

    Yet they are, and that shouldn’t be surprising.

  316. it’s interesting to check whether anybody remembers anymore that Gay Liberation caused AIDS

    But Hollywood taught me that AIDS is the disease of white hemophiliacs like Ryan White, who were just unlucky in that transfusion they got last month. (I don’t suppose a gay man’s blood donation could have caused Ryan’s AIDS? Nah.)

    And then the gay vultures like Elton John stood on Ryan’s grave to lecture the normies on the evil of stigmatizing the sodomites. They murder a kid, then cry out in pain.

    • Agree: Bubba
    • Replies: @guest
  317. @The Alarmist

    I always heard it was GHWB who flew to Iran in a SR-71.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  318. @CCZ

    Really good for the Jews there. Were even Weimar Jews publicly calling for Germany to be invaded?

    Asking for my Jewish friends.

    You’re drifting Left…

  319. Anonymous[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Interesting post

    I used to hear this song all the time (about 88-89) and never associated it with the homosexual lifestyle. I don’t remember any of my friends mentioning it either. I wonder if such a fact could go unnoticed by audiences in this social media era.

    • Replies: @Bubba
  320. @gcochran

    I will interpret that remark as you cannot refute any of his arguments.

    • Replies: @Bubba
    , @gcochran
  321. Tipsy says:
    @Kronos

    This is a classic use of the leftist’s use of argumentum ad populum, the common knowledge fallacy, except that his version common knowledge is that which nearly all leftists are certain is true.

    Which brings us back to Reagan, who said: “The problem isn’t that liberals are ignorant, it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”

    • Replies: @guest
  322. AIDS was created to genocide black people.

    My black friend told me so.

  323. @Anonymous

    I’m a complete heterosexual and I’ve only had one partner in my life. Reading this thread, as well as living an open-eyed life, makes me think it’s best to keep it that way. There’s also my children, my marriage, my reputation, my conscience, my influence, my sanity.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  324. PaceLaw says:
    @BB753

    Good point! Could it be because there aren’t as many homosexuals (proportionally) in sub-Saharan Africa as in the sophisticated and evolved West?

    • Replies: @BB753
  325. Anonymous[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beliavsky

    The mainstreaming of anal sex among hetero populations is one of the stranger phenomena of our times.

    I’ve encountered proud homophobes – people who routinely mock and insult homosexuals – who talk openly of buggering their wives and girlfriends, like it was a perfectly normal thing to do.

    Under the old-time sodomy laws, they would have ended up on the scaffold alongside the homos they hate.

    • Replies: @guest
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    , @ken
  326. Bubba says:
    @JR Ewing

    C’mon JR get with the times! It’s called “Reproductive Justice” for “transfemales”! Presidential candidate Julian Castro stated in the Democrat debate last week that men, wait, I mean psychotic men who think they are women (transfemales), can even have taxpayer funded abortions!

    And he wasn’t laughed off the stage…

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/28/tucker_carlson_debate_shows_democratic_party_has_broken_from_reality.html

  327. @Daniel H

    100 years ago, any of those maladies would have killed him.

    There’s a moral there – don’t do it!

  328. guest says:

    I was watching some documentary on Showtime recently about a late-90s AIDS outbreak in the porno industry. They took great care to explain early on that AIDS as the homo disease is a myth. Heterosexuals get it too, for instance one guy and a handful of girls who happened to make a living sexing thousands of people on camera.

    Oh, but there’s a twist: the guy was the disease vector and he just so happened to moonlight in gay porn.

  329. @Gordo

    …thinking about it, George was a Greek Cypriot.

    Cat Stevens is half-Greek, half-Swedish. You’d think the former would grant him some immunity against Islam, but evidently not.

  330. Lot says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Here’s an even bigger one; in fact, the self-evident one. Blacks are more susceptible to AIDS.”

    I doubt it, but here is one bit of evidence in favor: black gays/MSMs self-report lower rates of unsafe sex, fewer partners, less drug use than whites. Yet they have an HIV rate 5x higher than white MSMs.

    I assume this is because they are less honest in the surveys. But maybe you’re right and they are just at a higher risk of infection per exposure.

  331. Olorin says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    No, “they” did not “call it GRID because they thought it only happened in gay men.”

    “They” “called it GRID” because men who had sex with men were the population in whom this syndrome was first seen, reported, and then tracked…to the men they had sex with.

    It was called “gay-related” because it literally was seen only among gay men. The name was reported in the NY in the fall of 1982 IIRC, and I have that precision of memory because of…certain specificities…involving individuals in my first-semester grad school department.

    The strategy that queer-industry leaders (including ActUP and Gay Men’s Health Crisis) used was to inflate the threat that HIV/AIDS posed to all people, not just the MSMs (men who have sex with men) who were responsible for the plague with which they killed themselves…and one another.

    And, I know from infuriating observation here and there, with which they killed confused, lost, and innocent heartland kids, many underage.

    In insisting that it “wasn’t a gay disease,” and in pumping fear into Mr. and Mrs. America via the MSM (mainstream media, with much overlap with the other kind of MSM) that everybody was at risk, they found over time, and to their chagrin, that the latter cared more for their own families than a bunch of suicidal/homicidal degenerates on Christopher and Castro Streets, and similar places.

    Today, reclaiming AIDS as a “gay disease” is at the forefront of various funding- and attention-getting strategies launched during Obama’s administration. One example (and don’t read it unless you have the stomach for blackpill):

    As gay and bisexual men were dropping dead in the mid-1980s, political strategists realized they had to make a choice. Acknowledge that the epidemic was disproportionately impacting gay and bisexual men — a despised minority in the U.S. — or reposition the epidemic as a threat to every American.

    The political choice was to re-cast the threat of the epidemic. By changing the discussion about HIV from what gay and bisexual men were doing sexually to the risk of “innocent” victims — like Ryan White, Kimberly Bergalis, and others (all of whom were white and heterosexual) — Congress was unable to ignore the crisis anymore. They could no longer paint the epidemic as the result of the exotic lives of gay and bisexual men.

    In 1990, the political calculation paid off with Congress passing the Ryan White CARE Act and unleashing a flood of federal dollars to AIDS service organizations, most of them created by and for gay and bisexual men. The de-gaying was complete.

    When the right wing claims HIV was a gay disease, gay leaders recoiled in rage. HIV, they said, was everyone’s problem. In a big picture snapshot that is accurate. But in the U.S. it’s a lie. The virus is safely encamped in the bodies of men who have sex with other men (a term of epidemiology coined by scientists, which makes trans women — deeply affected by HIV — invisible in the epidemic).

    Author John-Manuel Androite says that in the mid-’80s a national coalition called National Organizations Responding to AIDS (NORA) made a decision — a deliberate decision — that echoes even today in how the U.S. addresses HIV.

    “What they did was they framed the discussion about HIV for lawmakers in terms of public health; as a public health crisis, not a gay community crisis per se,” Andriote says. “What they did, very intentionally, was to emphasize the impact of HIV on non-gay people, specifically women and children.”

    Androite authored the book Victor Deferred: How AIDS Changed Gay America, which tracks the political impact of the epidemic on the LGBT rights movement.

    “Unfortunately, the unexpected impact or effect of that de-gaying strategy was that the federal government was very happy to pay attention and focus resources on women and kids,” he says. “But the attitude was still that gay men could sort of fend for themselves.”

    At that point, he says, the national LGBT organizations which participated in the NORA coalition, felt their part in addressing the epidemic was over, and could “move on to issues that affect the rest of us, marriage equality in particular, and that just dominated the political discourse for quite some time. Until today I would say.”

    This happened at time when two-thirds of people living with HIV in the U.S. were gay or bisexual men; just as it is today, he points out.

    https://www.hivplusmag.com/opinion/guest-voices/2014/02/19/listen-hiv-still-gay-disease?pg=full

  332. guest says:
    @Bragadocious

    I kid you not, my health class in high school was compelled to watch a video wherein Molly Ringwald, perfectly normal attractive young heterosexual white woman, contracts AIDS from a one-night-stand with a bartender resembling Fabio. That’s what they expected us to swallow. (Sorry for saying “swallow” on a homo thread.)

    • Replies: @Kronos
  333. @Nicholas Stix

    Murder: When AIDS hit, numerous homosexuals became serial killers, deliberately infecting as many men as possible: Patient Zero, Rock Hudson, et al.

    It is this aspect that proves timely and true the words of St. John Chrysostom:

    “All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more damaged and degraded by sin than the body is by disease. But the worst of all passions is lust between men. … The sins against nature are more problematic and less satisfying, so much so that one cannot even say that they procure pleasure, since true pleasure is only that which is according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned on its head! Therefore, not only are such [homosexual]passions satanic, but their lives are diabolic …

    “So, I say to you that they [the homosexuals] are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these [homosexuals] destroy the soul inside the body. ….

    There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more absurd or damaging than this perversity.”

  334. The public skoolz have DISAVOWED their purported, primary [political] mission of teaching the 3Rs to poor kids.

    As one of its more outrageous substitutes, they (a preferred pronoun) have taken on the ultra left-wing, political role of teaching (indoctrinating) small kids — rich or poor — in safe-sex practices.

  335. Lot says:

    Good news: massive layoffs at the U of Alaska, including tenured faculty.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/07/01/imminent-massive-cuts-could-force-faculty-staff-layoffs-university-alaska-system

    Trump: make this guy your Secretary of Education if he wants it.

    • Replies: @Bubba
    , @Olorin
  336. guest says:
    @eah

    Dude, what do you think Stonewall was? It was a public sex hangout that the cops periodically raided. Homos fought back, and their “liberation” was to set public homosexuality free from the Long Arm of the Law.

    Homos didn’t suddenly start being promiscuous prior to the AIDS Apocalypse. They were always potentially that way. It’s just that before they were more or less outlaws. “Free Love” and drug culture hadn’t broken into the mainstream. There were great social and legal barriers between their…thingies and other men’s…what-nots. “Liberation” changed that.

    • Replies: @eah
  337. Alfa158 says:
    @Jim Christian

    I think it’s called “pozzed” from HIV positive. As far as I’ve read though, the main attraction is that once you are infected, you can resume having unprotected, promiscuous sex and the government will pay whatever it takes to keep the drug cocktail flowing needed to extend your life.
    Even as a straight guy I can see their logic, but it wouldn’t work for us because women just don’t roll that way.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  338. @Steve should be better than this

    It oozes mean spiritedness

    The gay lobby spent most of the 80’s and the early 90’s blaming AIDS on Reagan in some of the most vulgar and disrespectful ways possible. They refused to take any personal responsibility for the spread of the disease while continuing to demand that research money be diverted to AIDS rather than to less discriminating diseases (e.g. cancer), causing an immeasurable number of deaths. Additionally, numerous hemophiliacs died as a result of being given AIDS-tainted blood. As far as I’m aware, nobody has apologized for any of this.

    Had the gay community said some form of “for reasons that don’t concern you, we like to have sex in ways that causes blood and fecal matter to be mixed and also causes the blood of the participants to be mixed. It would seem that this is causing us to be disproportionately affected by a cruel auto-immune disease. We will do our part by curtailing the behavior that leads to this, and if you would help us it would be greatly appreciated” that would have been nice. Instead it was “Reagan is murdering us”, “Cardinal O’Connor is a fat cannibal” and “we’re going to continue to mix blood and feces and have thousands of anonymous sex partners and if you don’t like it you’re stupid and hateful and ignorant”.

    If you want people to not be “mean-spirited”, it would help to not insult them and call them names.

    • Agree: Marcus
  339. @Reg Cæsar

    Cat Stevens is half-Greek, half-Swedish. You’d think the former would grant him some immunity against Islam, but evidently not.

    Cat Stevens – loved his music back in the day, but what a moron he turned out to be. At least Freddie Mercury died from his vices without killing us. Cat abandoned his music and is waiting to visit a fatwah on us all.

    • Agree: Bubba
  340. @(((They))) Live

    Maybe George was a pitcher not a catcher

    Or, in the terminology of Milton Berle and his circle, more of a singer than a dancer. He was into “cottaging”, after all.

  341. Bubba says:

    (Cathy) Sandeen said business leaders in Anchorage are concerned about the impact the cuts could have on the local work force, particularly due to the fact it would be unlikely that faculty members who were laid off would be able to find similar work elsewhere in the state, leading to an exodus of education professionals.

    No kidding honey. Alaskan LBGT & Feminism professors will find it difficult to find employment other than their taxpayer-funded sinecures in the PC asylums of “higher education.”

    The “exodus” will be a welcome relief to Alaska’s taxpayers.

    • Replies: @Bubba
    , @Lot
    , @Olorin
  342. Olorin says:
    @prime noticer

    You are absolutely correct, prime, about this being part of the psychological, economic, and other war laid on hetero European men.

    “The homosexual community is particularly vulnerable to…” is like saying drug dealers are particularly vulnerable to gun violence, so let’s spend all of YOUR time and money getting out there to protect those precious drug dealers so they don’t get shot when they keep making drug deals every day.

    But this is exactly what the anti-gun lobby is about: it’s up to everyone to protect those who use firearms stupidly/recklessly by giving up rights, paying for their surgeries, shouldering a share of guilt because Guns Bad, etc.

    The thing that jars me about Current Year f!ggotry is how much of it is not only adolescent in its self-centeredness but, in fact, extremely self- and others-destructive.

    Yeah, I bought the propaganda in the ’80s about how gays just wanted to live normal-ish lives, in the open, with respect, and leave others alone. I believed that my visceral sense of “ew” or “uh, but hold on there a moment” was me being a bigot or whatever.

    What I saw in the ’90s, on both coasts and in Chicagoland and environs, turned that on its head. I saw a specifically destructive population who demanded you view their violent behavior (cheating on partners and flipping them off in the name of Gay Lib; deliberately infecting others–including partners–with a wide range of diseases; demanding public money to treat those; later attacking anyone who Noticed or didn’t go along) as PRIDE.

    I saw them as a “community” escalate their demands, and their destructive behaviors, every time ground was gained.

    I saw them gain power and use it to systematically destroy the innocence of children…and to destroy anyone who tried to keep their kids away from that destruction.

    What I saw in the Bay Area in the ’90s was profoundly blackpilling. The worst for me was talking to kids who’d come there from all over the nation because they were fatherless, or from broken families, or had crazy moms, or whatever, and some older guy latched on to them either in person or via mediated content…and told them they were gay and needed to go somewhere they’d be “accepted.”

    Which amounted to a place where older guys could prey on them. “Fresh meat.”

    And the band played on.

    Then around 1997 I worked up the stoic fortitude to attend the Folsom Street Fair. I had to go away to the mountains for a few days afterwards. I don’t recommend you do this, but Zombie (at Zombietime.com) used to cover FSF and Up Your Alley (FSF for BDSM) at her blog, which has been on hiatus since ’15.

    I’ve had it with paying for the externalized costs of other people’s mental, genetic, cognitive, and other shortcomings. I’ve had it with calling those shortcomings “pride” or “diversity” or “justice.” I’ve had it with calling a steaming festering pile of dung “equality.”

  343. Anonymous[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Half Canadian

    From the CDC on HIV in the United States and Dependent Areas:

    Gay and bisexual men are the population most affected by HIV. In 2017, gay and bisexual men accounted for 66% (25,748) of all HIV diagnoses and 82% of diagnoses among males.

    – In 2017, heterosexuals accounted for 24% of HIV diagnoses.

    – In 2017, people who inject drugs accounted for 6% of HIV diagnoses.

    – African Americans accounted for 43% (16,694) of HIV diagnoses and 13% of the population.

    – Hispanics/Latinos accounted for 26% (9,908) of HIV diagnoses and 18% of the population.

    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/overview/ataglance.html

  344. Olorin says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Ach, I mentioned this in a later comment. Sorry for the repeat. I agree with Mike that Zombie’s reports on this (and other matters of Bay Area “culture”) are must-read content…but wait till you can stomach a 50-pound black pill.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  345. In the early 80’s, I was living in California and met a gay fellow whom my stepdad knew as they both worked in the airlines. I remember warning him about the dangers inherent in promiscuous sex as he’d proudly revealed he was a very frequent visitor to the bath houses in San Francisco. I was laughed at and mocked and basically treated like a nut who was standing on a street corner with a sign saying, “the world will end tomorrow!” He (along with a few others who shared a house) died of Aids by the mid 80’s. The one survivor in the house was a very elderly man who was not sexually active. He was also quite small in stature but said (in a phone call) that when the last person was dying (the aforementioned fellow I had met that my stepdad knew and who was, if I recall correctly, about 6 feet tall/180 lbs)) that even he could lift him off the couch as he was nothing but skin and bones by that time. He also mentioned how once someone in the house was known to have Aids that all their friends deserted them and wouldn’t come across the Bay Bridge to visit them. I later heard that since he wound up utterly alone that he moved out of the state back to his hometown. None of this jibes with the movies or documentaries I’ve seen since that portrays the gay community as having come together and supported each other in a huge, gushy love fest of support and caring.

    It was during the time period of the visit that I was heavily into my photography and was wanting to visit a lot of scenic locations or scenic overlooks which was my whole purpose in visiting SFO in the first place. My stepdad and I wound up driving towards Twin Peaks and passed through the Castro District which, unknown to me at the time, was the gay district. The streets were choked with guys just standing around and I saw a lot of what would be considered groping taking place, men kissing and one guy getting a blowjob in public. It was really unnerving as I’d never seen anything like that taking place before. Even more unnerving was how men would turn to stare intently at us as we drove down the street. I actually slid down in my seat until my eyes were level with the bottom of the window because I found it both creepy and embarrassing.

    Upon returning to Los Angeles, I told an Indian friend what had happened. He was attending some classes at UCLA and had to drive through an area of L.A. on his way to school that he said was crawling with “f-gots” and how much he hated it- that they’d be standing on the sidewalks, leaning against street signs, walls of buildings etc and that when he came to a stop at an intersection, suddenly they’d all start peering at him and (worse yet) start walking towards the car as if he were a customer. He made me laugh when he described them as being every age from 18 to 80 and how they’d start lurching towards his car like a horde of zombies and how he’d “floor it” just to get out of there. I later experienced somewhat the same thing on a road leading out from Griffith Observatory. The road was a winding road that had a lot of pull-overs and, at each one, men could be seen standing outside their cars, some masturbating. I also almost hit one who ran from the bushes on the side of the road, across the street and into the bushes on the other side. At first, I’d thought he was completely naked but then I noticed he was wearing what we later came to call an “ass flosser” bathing suit as it covered nothing but the genitals and had a string up the crack of the ass. I later learned that entire area was a major cruising area for gay anonymous sex in the woods.

    Am I surprised that Aids spread so fast? Not at all. I’m just surprised it wasn’t worse than it was!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  346. guest says:
    @Tipsy

    Wasn’t that Mark Twain?

  347. Bubba says:
    @Anonymous

    Really? I’m not criticizing your naïveté at the time (weren’t we all growing up?), but I thought Erasure’s song lyrics were bigger advocates of the homosexual lifestyle than Frankie Goes to Hollywood – and they were truly “rough trade” homosexuals like the late Australian Peter Allen.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  348. @Tiny Duck

    Do you ever have a thought of your own?

  349. guest says:
    @Anonymous

    It is strange. I want to think of it as simply a fad born of the inherent need of some people to violate barriers and find ever new and frightening means of stimulation. Unfortunately, the type of person influential in our culture. But perhaps it was something more sinister.

    I have never had the slightest interest in anal sex, nor have I ever met anyone who was, to my knowledge. At least no one talks about it. I remember once overhearing kids chatting about butt sex in the high school locker room, but that’s “locker room talk.”

    At the same time, I can’t help but notice how popular the term “anal” is in pornography, because it’s surprisingly difficult to avoid porno propaganda. Someone must be buying the stuff. My guess is a lot of them are stimulated more by the idea than the actuality.

    Take incest (PLEASE!). While it is possible to find family members attractive, I must think the number of people who legitimately wish to couple with their mother or sister is vanishingly small. Yet incest porn exists, and I guess people use it. Presumably they’re not thinking of actual family members as they do, but are excited by the transgression or whatever.

  350. @Lot

    no, transmission rates are practically negliegble for hetersexual sex, and surprisingly low for sodomy. You really need to engage in industrial levels of perversion to get AIDS. Here is the ever helpful CDC on transmission rates:

    Type of Exposure Risk per 10,000 Exposures
    Receptive Anal Intercourse 138
    Insertive Anal Intercourse 11
    Receptive Penile-Vaginal Intercourse 8
    Insertive Penile-Vaginal Intercourse 4
    Receptive Oral Intercourse Low
    Insertive Oral Intercourse Low

    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/estimates/riskbehaviors.html

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Anounder
  351. guest says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    There probably are homos in Africa, but okay. Why don’t we try to find the commonality between Africans and homos which leave them susceptible to sex disease.

    Promiscuity (i.e. sex-craze), short horizon for future planning, willingness to live in squalor, fear of condoms.

  352. @The Anti-Gnostic

    ‘It’s a behavioral thing: anal intercourse, drug use, and hyper-promiscuity. Blacks exhibit less impulse control on average, so blacks have higher rates of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections.’

    Avowedly racist as I am when it comes to blacks, I’m skeptical. Black Africa is still largely governed by traditional mores — and the region is one of the more decidedly homophobic on the planet.

    …and most of them can’t afford drugs. Nor, I suspect, are they ‘hyper-promiscuous.’ Try that crap in your average African village, and I suspect you’re dead.

    So I can’t see it. Why should the AIDS rate be ten-fold what it is in any non-black country?

    Genetics. Sure as blacks have lower IQ’s, it’s genetics.

  353. guest says:
    @doxmenot

    Was knowledge of gay promiscuity lost for a convenient 19-20 year window? Because it has been common knowledge since* and was certainly common knowledge before.

    *Unless Gay Marriage is the subject under discussion, in which case we all pretend they’re even better than heteros.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  354. @Non PC Infidel

    ‘…Am I surprised that Aids spread so fast? Not at all. I’m just surprised it wasn’t worse than it was!’

    That was one small blessing of the AIDS epidemic.

    It got homosexuals to mellow out on the flamboyant promiscuity. It was getting pretty hard to take.

  355. Feryl says:
    @Kronos

    Drugs are the worst. Adolescent drug use (and alcohol abuse) is associated with future pathology. Many drugs not only cause short to long term mental health harm to adults, but may be particularly harmful to developing young brains.

    Keep in mind also that drug running, and other criminal activity within the orbit of drug production and distribution, soared in the late 60’s and 70’s, in tandem with demand for drugs soaring (thanks a lot, Boomers). Many drug users were essentially putting money in the pockets of vicious criminals.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Thea
  356. guest says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Nice try. Irishmen like Reagan aren’t white. Academia told me so.

  357. @John Achterhof

    ‘Dull take, Steve. The spread of AIDS/HIV at the outset of gay liberation is a surmountable consequence, most immediately through awareness, but the freedom of gays to live authentic lives with the dignity of social acceptance in their identity and consensual adult activity is I’m sure a pretty damn valuable, enduring consequence for millions upon millions of people.

    It’s all about Philadelphia Freedom, wankers (above majority): you’ve got to put up with their flamboyant parades and such and they have to put up with your cretinous thought oozing out into public view through social media.’

    All very nice. The unanswered question is whether any human society can survive if its assumptions are questioned at such a profound level.

    My guess is no — but it looks like we’re going to find out.

    How’s it going so far?

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Thea
  358. BB753 says:
    @PaceLaw

    I don’t know. African men will hump anything that moves and polygamy leaves many men without women.

    • Replies: @PaceLaw
  359. Bubba says:
    @Jasper Been

    Thank you and the Duesberg hypothesis has not been refuted yet.

    As you can see from the replies just the mere mentioning of Professor Duesberg sets off the group mob-think that has destroyed any further insight to the AIDS problem that was fire-started by the media hysteria created in the 80’s and continues today.

  360. guest says:
    @ken

    Part of me wants to think it’s too obvious to mention. I mean, that’s where poop comes out and it’s very easy to make bleed.

    Then again, most people are idiots and have to be told it’s not a good idea to run head-first into a brick wall at full speed without a helmet.

  361. Feryl says:
    @Polymath

    This “hippie generation” of which you speak is now “leading” our society. Is anyone surprised that they are doing a terrible job?

  362. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    There is a very high rate of violence among male gay couples, too. I am concerned about a young boy being around the strange men his daddies bring home.

    Agreed. The idea of male or female homosexuals raising children is such an obviously bad and stupid idea.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  363. @Nicholas Stix

    The three biggest factors in the spread of AIDS were…

    Steve’s headline was misleading, most likely meant as a joke. Of course gay lib didn’t cause the disease, only enabled its rapid transmission.

    In other words, it caused the AIDS “crisis”.

    Metonymy in action.

  364. @Feryl

    ‘Drugs are the worst. Adolescent drug use (and alcohol abuse) is associated with future pathology. Many drugs not only cause short to long term mental health harm to adults, but may even be more harmful to developing young brains…’

    Indeedero. I grew up in Berkeley/Oakland in the sixties/seventies.

    I’d long since noticed the spectacular casualty rate among my peers. Three dead, four very decidedly fucked up…

    I’d always put it down to the general sociological dysfunction of the times, but then I read some piece on how massive marijuana use in adolescence is associated with schizophrenia, and I’ve started to wonder. I mean, we used to smoke a lot of dope…

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Lot
    , @YetAnotherAnon
  365. Feryl says:
    @gabriel alberton

    There is no such thing as “down low” culture among whites. But it does seem evident that a lot of horny black men are getting it on with dudes; not helping is that black males are much more likely to end up in prison.

    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
  366. guest says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Okay, but there are lots of opportunities on iSteve to discuss Google’s stranglehold on our minds. This is an opportunity to vent anger at WWG for making us think about their disgusting habits

  367. Feryl says:
    @prime noticer

    Open wounds. Hetero men are much less likely to suffer a wounding during a sex act than women and gay dudes are. See also those who receive blood transfusions, and IV drug addicts.

    And as others have noted, violent and otherwise unsafe sex practices (and immune system damaging infections in general) seem more common among SS Africans, thus explaining the higher HIV infection rates among them.

    Truly, “safe” sex is only possible when no party is injured to the point of bleeding during the act.

  368. Feryl says:
    @prime noticer

    IV drug use is the biggest “DUH” risk factor imaginable. Imagine taking a needle tainted by some else’s biological material and shoving directly into your blood stream. Yuck.

  369. Bubba says:
    @Bubba

    Dang, that was meant to be a reply to Lot’s latest comment above.

  370. Feryl says:
    @james wilson

    It certainly is not exclusive to anal. Other parts of the body (including the vagina and mouth) can be injured during sexual activity, or may already have received injuries from other activities (for example, eating certain foods can abrade the mouth and tongue ). It is true that promiscuous and drugged up gay men often injure each other anally, thus explaining the sky high rates among gay men (and by “injury” this also includes slight abrasions which may not seem remarkable)

    Most Boomers are in denial about the risks of oral sex, ‘cuz when they grew up nobody questioned it. Yet oral and throat cancers are more pronounced in people who had many oral sex partners.

    The only “safe sex” is the traditional type between two monogamous partners.

    • Agree: Anounder
  371. Olorin says:
    @Reactionary Utopian

    I was told that in the NYC sex clubs of the 1970s and 1980s where both men and women went for all manner of orgiastic encounters, one had to step carefully because of the thick slippery film on the floor.

    Unable to wrap my square brain around this, I asked, and was told that these clubs had restaurant-supply-house-sized vats of Crisco around the room(s). One would, I was given to understand, scoop up a dollop preparatory to enlubenate said parts as one moved through said room(s).

    I cannot imagine that these enlubenating practices were any healthier than “dry sex.”

    We’re talking about people so depraved in their search for the next, and next more intense, loinal tickle that they revert evolutionarily to being swamps. Except that the ur-swamp that assembled life on earth didn’t have the sort of species-ecology interactions we’re talking about here.

    We are talking about population-sized petri dishes, periodically treated with pharmaceuticals that select for the most robust .001% of microbes, then sent out to interact, cross-infect, amplify, re-select, etc.

    It can’t go well, it hasn’t gone well, and while we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube, it’s well past time that this whole set of issues gets rethought. The cost of Gay to humanity at large is unfathomable, in terms of lives lost, health impaired, and countless trillions spent on things that could just as easily have been avoided with behavioral changes.

    Of course Big Pharma and the NGOs prefer that circulation of trillion$ to the cheap or free approach. After all, every HIV-drug administered, every “PWA” hospital stay, every STD treated–it all contributes to Pharma’s profits and the GDP.

    Staying healthy with intelligence and self restraint? Piffle! Don’t make no money off that, white man.

  372. guest says:
    @anon

    AA s are also freely discriminated against in the sex trade. Prostitutes, especially black ones, openly advertise that they don’t accept black dudes.

    This for a number of reasons, among them their high rate of infectiousness.

  373. @Feryl

    I am a criminal defense attorney and have talked to a lot of men who have been to prison. I’ve been told by many of these guys that there are Whites and Mexicans who have gay sex in prison, but most don’t. And those that do are shunned by their co-ethnics.

    As for blacks, gay sex is rampant. One hole is as good as another. Strangely, they don’t consider the man sticking it another man to be gay. Only the receiver. Even if it is rape. That’s negro logic for you.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
  374. Feryl says:
    @Colin Wright

    The cohort of people born from about 1958-1964 is often noted for it’s high rates of dysfunction, and I always though this was because drug use peaked in the 70’s and early 80’s*

    *Drug use in most of the 60’s was transgressive, not normative; drug use among working class youth was much more common in 1975 or 1981 than it was in 1965.

    I’d always put it down to the general sociological dysfunction of the times

    The 1980’s and early-mid 90’s were pretty rough, too. The difference is that in the 80’s it wasn’t as cool to be a degenerate as it was in the 70’s, so a lot of cognitively well-endowed people opted to not do drugs or commit crime in the 80’s and 90’s. Trouble is, a lot of less gifted people still couldn’t resist drugs and crime. Thus we see that with each passing generation, blacks make up more and more of the trouble cases, whereas with young Boomers in the 70’s, a lot of whites caused trouble.

  375. Kronos says:
    @guest

    Cum on man! You can’t say that kind of stuff here. It’s very disrespectful.

  376. Feryl says:
    @Autochthon

    The idea it was all about the Evil Apathetic Gubmint is a kind of projected value, made even worse now than it was at the time.

    My take on that is that even many older people have forgotten how much sex and violence there was in the 70’s and 80’s, so it’s become easier for people take pity on “victims” who in reality were living a (knowingly) dangerous lifestyle, and in fact, were often prey and predators alike.

  377. PaceLaw says:
    @BB753

    Nah, I’m not buying it. Unlike China, with their one-child policy, and India, with their sex-selective abortions, Africa is a free-fire zone where boys/girls are born in large numbers. I don’t think polygamy is a factor at all in driving homosexuality in Africa.

    • Replies: @BB753
  378. peterike says:
    @Lot

    “Two big reasons heterosexual hiv is bigger in Africa.”

    No. Read the article I posted up thread. African’s simply don’t have AIDS at the rates reported. It’s a deliberate fraud.

  379. Lot says:
    @Gross Terry

    It also says: “Factors that may increase the risk of HIV transmission include sexually transmitted diseases, acute and late-stage HIV infection, and high viral load. ”

    All of these will be bigger factors in Africa than the USA.

  380. Lot says:
    @Bubba

    “unlikely that faculty members who were laid off would be able to find similar work elsewhere in the state,”

    • LOL: Bubba
  381. Lot says:
    @Colin Wright

    “I mean, we used to smoke a lot of dope…”

    Then it was 4% THC, and there’d be dry spells sometimes. Now it is 25% THC or 80%+ extracts, cheap and legal.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Colin Wright
  382. @guest

    Not all, not even most. A cowardly silence does the trick though.

  383. Bubba says:
    @Lot

    Thank you and my apologies that I (accidentally) did not reply directly to your hilarious post. It’s comment #359 now and may be lowered as time goes on. And the picture of Sarah Palin with the comment is brilliant! LOL! Thanks!

  384. @Tiny Duck

    And it had nothing at all to do with gay men visiting “The Trucks,” which were 18-wheelers parked along the West Side Highway at the foot of Christopher Street in NYC. The trucks’ trailers were left open at the back, and gay men would just climb aboard and have anonymous sex with anyone else who happened to be there. Some, of course, would have multiple encounters with multiple strangers on a single visit. And this was all flourishing in the 1970s, post-Stonewall, while the evil Ronald Raygun was still riding his horses in Santa Barbara — although the fun would have continued into the early years of his presidency when GRIDS
    became a thing.

  385. Feryl says:
    @Bubba

    Erasure’s singer is a total flamer who caught AIDs, and is currently aging poorly. The other guy in the band, Vince Clarke, is as far as I know straight; he’s certainly aged normally, and he started several other bands before Erasure (one of which had a female singer).

    • Replies: @Bubba
  386. @Olorin

    Doesn’t hurt to put this info out there twice, so thanks.

  387. Feryl says:
    @Lot

    Teen drinking was awful in the 1970’s. Youthful booze swilling is probably worse than pot use, really. The massive rise in alcohol related health problems in middle aged women can be attributed to heavy drinking being de-stigmatized in the 70’s; and though booze consumption is lower now than it was in the 70’s and 80’s, I’m sure that it’s still bad enough with enough youngsters that plenty of girls are still doing life-long damage to their organs and immune systems.

  388. Bubba says:
    @Feryl

    I believe that the band before Erasure was Yazoo (Yaz) with Allison Moyet.

  389. Marcus says:
    @CCZ

    So it turns out that Central America is ruled by Nazis, not the southern cone/Brazil like everyone predicted

  390. @Lot

    ‘“I mean, we used to smoke a lot of dope…”

    Then it was 4% THC, and there’d be dry spells sometimes. Now it is 25% THC or 80%+ extracts, cheap and legal…’

    Oh for sure, but we used to smoke a lot of dope. I remember my brother once smoking thirteen joints; I can’t even picture doing that now.

    As to cost, ‘lids’ — nominally an ounce — ran between $8 and $40. That’s $0.25 to $1.25 a gram. The cost wasn’t exactly prohibitive.

    • Replies: @Lot
  391. anonymous[319] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Eazy-E got AIDS through heterosexual activity.

  392. BB753 says:
    @PaceLaw

    OK, if HIV is rampant in Africa and Africans are promiscuous as hell, why aren’t Africans dying in droves from Aids? I rest my case: either HIV is overhyped in Africa or Africans have a genetic immunity to HIV.

  393. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    “The government and medical institutions failed to respond; the media failed to report on the topic, pressure the government for funds”

    That’s the Narrative. It’s a Big Lie. Federal funding for AIDS mushroomed from $14.5 million in 1983 to nearly a billion dollars in 1988. Nobody in history has ever gotten so much money so fast. It was all reported under big headlines in the mass media, too. Ronald Reagan was President, Bush was VP, and a Republican, Sen. Lowell Weicker Jr. of Connecticut, was chairman of the Appropriations Subcommittee that handled money bills for the Department of Health and Human Services. And it didn’t happen because of a few demonstrations, but because the US military was concerned about the safety of its blood supplies. (They must be prepared to do battlefield blood transfusions directly from one man to another.)

  394. JohnnyD says:

    I thought FDR caused the aids epidemic with his redlining…

  395. eah says:
    @guest

    Uhh, “dude” I don’t know what “Stonewall” was and I don’t fucking care — of course I’ve heard the name, but never bothered to look it up — see, I’m a normal heterosexual male who has a normal reaction to male homosexuality: it’s aberrant and disgusting (cf Joe Sobran — “repellent”) — I’m just not and never was interested (even growing up near SF) — at the same time, believe it or not I have no problem with (discrete) homosexuals; they just can’t get married or adopt children.

    Homos didn’t suddenly start being promiscuous prior to the AIDS Apocalypse.

    I see.

    There were great social and legal barriers between their…thingies and other men’s…what-nots. “Liberation” changed that.

    OK, got it.

    So going with the thesis here, “Gay Liberation” didn’t cause the AIDS epidemic because 1) gay men were always promiscuous, and 2) it was male homosexual promiscuity that caused the spread of HIV and thus the “AIDS Apocalypse”.

    The tone of your comment (“dude”) seemed to imply I was wrong; but I’m not wrong: it was the spread of HIV that caused the AIDS epidemic, and HIV was spread by male homosexual promiscuity, which existed before “Gay Liberation” (according to you).

    Right “dude”?

    So actually your problem is with Steve Sailer and his thesis that “Gay Liberation” caused AIDS, not me — but you are apparently too dumb or bad at basic logic to see that.

    • Replies: @eah
  396. @Coag

    That’s only if he was sure what’s inside the syringe is indeed full of HIV bodies.

    One reason why I’m a skeptic is because there is no, I REPEAT NO, electron microscope photo of a full colony of identical shaped HIV particles. While such photos can be easily found for other retroviruses.

    Lots of CGI and one particle shots though. But scientifically not sound. So what were they using for the antibody tests? One can only wonder.

    One problem with the HIV hypothesis is that the titers of HIV, even in terminal cases, was always too low to account for the immune deficiency. I’ve preferred the drugs and promiscuous lifestyle hypothesis beating down the immune system instead.

    One thing is for sure – the AIDS test is indeed testing for something, since positives do correlate with the onset of AIDS.

  397. Anounder says:
    @Colin Wright

    You left out either not having intercourse outside your race, not having having genital focused sex, not having sex with anyone who engaged in sodomy (which includes “heterosexuals”)…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  398. @Anounder

    ‘You left out either not having intercourse outside your race…’

    Other than avoiding sex with blacks, I don’t see why that would be helpful.

  399. orionyx says:
    @james wilson

    Four paragraphs, and 58 comments, before anyone mentioned this explicitly.
    Anyone who knows any anatomy knows that the rectal mucosa is only one cell thick, and that venous drainage from the rectum goes directly to the liver. So pathogens can enter easily, even in the absence of visible injury, and go straight to the liver to breed. Vaginal epithelium, on the other hand, is many layers thick, and resistant to injury. The vaginal circulation drains to the systemic circulation, not the liver. The result is that vaginal sex is not conducive to the spread of AIDS.
    These facts help to explain the spread of AIDS in Africa. Women there will permit or be forced into anal sex to avoid pregnancy. Men there will have anal sex with other men for a variety of reasons without the active partner regarding himself as homosexual. And African governments will call malnutrition, TB, and many water-borne diseases AIDS because that’s where the money is.
    The counterexamples given of heterosexual men getting AIDS from women just go to show that some men will lie rather than admit to having had at least the occasional lapse.
    So on balance spent on AIDS prevention and treatment could have been saved by simply telling our young people to keep their anal sphincters clenched except when defecating, and to keep their backs to the wall at parties with lots of dodgy strangers.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  400. @Alfa158

    I think it’s called “pozzed” from HIV positive…and the government will pay whatever it takes to keep the drug cocktail flowing

  401. orionyx says:
    @Colin Wright

    I can’t give you the reference, but in the late 80s or early 90s there was a study done in the Netherlands involving 300 married hetero male hemophiliacs who had contracted AIDS from tainted Factor VIII infusions (perhaps from Arkansas).
    All these men were having regular sex with their wives at least once a week.
    They were followed for 2 years.
    Not one of the wives of these men contracted AIDS during the study.
    This would indicate that the risk of a woman contacting AIDS via normal vaginal sex with an infected straight partner is less than 1 in 3000.
    So much for the virus not discriminating.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  402. Lot says:
    @Colin Wright

    That’s far cheaper than rural midwest in the 1990s. Try $25 for an 1/8th oz of “mexican brick” full of seeds and stems.

  403. @anon19

    On the evening the 1965 immigration act was signed into law on Liberty Island in New York Harbor, there were huge celebrations across New York City. It was celebrated as a great Jewsh victory over the gentiles.

    Never forget.

    • Replies: @anon19
  404. orionyx says:
    @Jake

    Human-chimp sex? What have you been smoking? A chimp is hundreds of pounds of very strong muscle, driven by a brain that would consider a sexual approach by a non-chimp an act of aggression. The non-chimp would lose face – quite literally.

    • LOL: jim jones
    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Kronos
  405. eah says:
    @eah

    Homos didn’t suddenly start being promiscuous prior to the AIDS Apocalypse.

    Thinking about this a bit more (and at the same time asking myself why), I am not quite sure what this is supposed to mean; what is being said here about male homosexual promiscuity and when it ‘started’ or was an identifiable part of the gay subculture — ?

    Anyway, it doesn’t matter — male homosexuals were very probably very promiscuous before ‘gay liberation’, but I’m willing to concede they did not become rampantly, anonymously promiscuous in the ‘bath house’ sense until ‘gay liberation’ really got started.

    Still it was rampant anonymous promiscuity that spread HIV and therefore caused the AIDS epidemic — and this was not an inevitable consequence of ‘gay liberation’, ie the de-stigmatization and de-criminalization of homosexuality — the promiscuity of many gays was a lifestyle choice and should not be seen as a direct result or consequence of generally more lenient social views of homosexuality.

    Just like you cannot literally blame ‘sexual liberation’ for the rise of unwanted pregnancies and abortion — it is possible to have sex outside of marriage and avoid unwanted pregnancy — and an unwanted pregnancy does not have to result in abortion, since ‘sexual liberation’ also took a more relaxed view of single motherhood.

  406. AndrewR says:

    HIV is like diabetes now so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, Boomer.

  407. anon19 says:
    @CCZ

    Just Jews doing their thing. Spreading propaganda, lies and making trouble.

  408. Pericles says:
    @gabriel alberton

    why only restrict men who had sex with other men from donating blood? Why not restrict blacks as well? Or even men who had sex with high-risk women? Why not lift those blanket restrictions altogether?

    Are you proposing to poison the blood supply willy-nilly? Thanks but no thanks.

    Gays are obviously the low hanging fruit, if you will, for reasons discussed in this comment section.

    As for blacks, they appear, quite unexpectedly, not to be very enthusiastic donors to the public good. Perhaps that reduces the danger.

    In the United States, blood donation rates of African American are 25-50% of that of white individuals. … Possible reasons for this discrepancy in donation rates include: 1) increased rates of donor deferral and ineligibility; 2) increased barriers to donation, such as fear and distrust; and 3) different marketing and education strategies.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3082202/

    It appears that in the bad old days, the donor race was noted down. And what do you know, that turned out to be useful. So one approach could be a separate blood bank for blacks, with blood biologically more suited to them. They might even donate more in that case.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/well/live/blood-type-race-racial.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  409. Pericles says:
    @CCZ

    Nearly 26 million people today have been forced to flee their own countries, and many are literally dying to enter the promised land of America.

    “Many”, in the sense of negligible numbers compared to 26 million.

    The analogies to the past are imperfect. But the Holocaust museum’s exhibit examining American immigration policies during the Nazi period ought to remind us that we failed at this before, and we will be damned if we continue to fail at it again. … There is clearly something deep in the American psyche that persistently gives into the worst of human impulses, despite the facts, despite the reality, despite our self-identity as a welcoming nation of immigrants.

    We say, Never again! We say, Open borders for Israel! The Jews and Israel mustn’t take the Nazi road to hell of America, who didn’t even save the Jews from their camps. Israel must not give in to their worst impulses of inhuman hatred, exploitation and destruction of the goyim. Nor can we keep our closed ethnic networks, but must in the name of decency open them to everyone in the world. Because we are better than that.

    Israel is a nation of immigrants, and the Forward fully supports its role as a magnet and safe haven for future migrants of all races and creeds, of any number. As Jews, as a chosen people, we must continually remind ourselves to save the world, not to fall for our worst impulses or the deep darkness inside our minds.

  410. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Back in the 1960s, some activists successfully argued for non-fault divorce, even if minor children were involved. This was accepted by the general public. Easy divorce –> illegitimacy –> gays with kids.

    South Dakota was the second-to-last state to adopt no-fault divorce. It was a quarter century or so before the last state fell.

    That state? Donald Trump’s New York.

    The collapse was quick. Same-sex marriage came the next year, by legislation. When your state is run by a party that gets all its money from lawyers, Jews, and homos, it comes as little surprise.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  411. @Pericles

    As for blacks, they appear, quite unexpectedly, not to be very enthusiastic donors

    You get paid for plasma, so they show up there. And you get to watch a movie.

  412. @Simply Simon

    Yes, that’s what they’d like you to think ….

  413. @Paleo Retiree

    Anal sex wasn’t that common back in the pre Gay Lib days.

    Juvenal mentioned “meeting yesterday’s lunch”, or, in an earlier, more florid translation,

    What is an ease and pleasure, could’st thou say
    (Where nature’s law forbids) to force my way
    To the digested meals of yesterday?

    That was in the Ninth Satire. I ran across this little commentary on the Tenth– then looked up to see which site it appeared on and, hey! I know this guy!

    A traditional Roman method for avenging oneself on an adulterer was to force a large fish into his anus.

  414. @Colin Wright

    “then I read some piece on how massive marijuana use in adolescence is associated with schizophrenia”

    Kid at my child’s school, arty middle-class parents working in media (they probably smoked themselves at uni) decided they were cool with their 15 year old smoking weed at home. He was one of the cool gang then.

    Parents didn’t think how much more powerful the stuff is now, nor that they were 19/20 when they smoked, not 14-15.

    He’s 22 now and pretty messed up, had a breakdown at uni. No longer the cool kid, more the needy one with problems.

    Many such cases!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  415. vinteuil says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    What Steve is really pointing out here is the level of totalitarian control over public consciousness now held by Google. And of course the other tech Cthulhus.

    I think prob’ly not. I think he’s pointing out what he’s pointing out, and not some other thing.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    , @Desiderius
  416. gcochran says:
    @Jasper Been

    I followed Duesberg from when he started talking about his: he never made any sense, and every one of his predictions was falsified Part of his schtick was that there are only one or two ways that a virus can cause illness. I thought it odd to hear that from a virologist, since I knew more ways: infected cells being killed by the immune system,for example, as happens in LCMV.

    The bit about HIV not really being the cause was probably news to Isaac Asimov and Paul Gann. There were plenty of transfusion cases. In my favorite example, there was a magazine whose raison d’etre was that AIDs wasn’t really caused by HIV. Coincidentally, all the editors happened to have HIV, and even more coincidentally, the magazine ceased publication when every one of them died of AIDs. Definitive end of an argument: if only it were always thus.

    Duesberg used a mix of lies, lawyerism, making up special new and unsupported theories to paper over every falsified prediction – should sound familiar !

    • Replies: @Precious
    , @Colin Wright
  417. @Steve Sailer

    That none of the members of Kiss,Van Halen, Def Leppard, and Guns ‘n’ Roses – given their legendary debauchery on a global level and their stratospheric popularity during the 1970s and 1980s – contracted HIV is telling indeed.

  418. @vinteuil

    I reckon both.

    Has anyone any thought about The Donald’s recent, cryptic replies to Mr. Carlson’s question whether he (The Donald) is investigating possible means to regulate the oligopoly and accompanying problems of the technological masters of the universe? We know this topic is a big peeve of Carlson’s, and that The Donald follows Carlson’s show and professes to largely agree with Carlson’s views (as The Donalds himself said in the same interview containing his cryptic remarks).

    Smart money is on this being more empty rhetoric from The Donald, but who knows…?

  419. ken says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I saw an interview with a female porn star who was regularly having objects of enormity shoved up her rectum saying she resigned herself to the fact that she’d be wearing adult diapers later in life. For $1,000?

  420. ken says:
    @Anonymous

    Please don’t use the term homophobe; it granting victory to the wrong team. Second, I’ve made it a personal policy to stay away from people who talk about their sex lives. Post college who talks about their preferences/exploits? Losers in my opinion.

  421. @dfordoom

    Heteros who wanted the right to an easy divorce found it convenient to believe that kids don’t do best raised by a mom and dad married to each other. It ultimately led to this.

    To be fair, kids are more likely to be abused in some way by a stepfather or mom’s boyfriend than by their biological dad. A child molester may date or even marry a single mother because he wants access to her child, male or female. This is not a new phenomenon – look at the fairy tales featuring the wicked stepmother. People often resent their spouses other children.

  422. @StephenC

    Certainly Mother Nature’s.

  423. @Reg Cæsar

    Didn’t know that. Wasn’t California the first? Under Ronald Reagan.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  424. @anon

    What has been seen cannot be unseen. I couldn’t finish watching. Ugh.

  425. @Mis(ter)Anthrope

    One of the many reasons that Mexicans and blacks are kept separate in prisons.

    My relative is in a big one in CA and he says there’s rumors of such activity, but it’s never witnessed. Of course, he’s with the Mexicans/whites/Asians, not the blacks.

  426. @Doobie

    Moral behavior excludes a lot of acts. Type II Diabetes is a self-inflicted malady. Gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

    I think that a major reason for the decline of traditional moral standards in recent decades is because of: (1) affluence; (2) the welfare state; and (3) the miracle of modern medicine. There isn’t the negative consequence to behavior that was traditionally considered immoral.

    100 years ago, Type II Diabetes would have killed you if you didn’t change your eating habits. So would venereal disease.

  427. @cthulhu

    I’ve always looked at lesbians as not so much homosexual as asexual. Maybe even anti-sexual. Seems they’re more about getting drunk on weekends than anything else.

  428. Olorin says:
    @Lot

    Now how many of those layoffs are of leftist low IQ faculty…

    …and how many are of the janitors, plumbers, electricians, food service workers, parking lot attendants, groundskeeepers, IT jockeys, etc., that maintain these vast academic real estate holdings?

    You tell me, because far as I can tell you’re pumping the usual neocon libertarian Alisa Rosenbaum fanboy victimization of the middle class…as something else.

    Many universities and colleges employ countless white men and women who went to the Ed Biz for jobs when Big Bidness offshored the jobs and stole the productivity gains from the 1970s on.

    If noble creatures like vacant-eyed bimbo Puppet Palin aren’t outright targeting leftist faculty for layoffs, this isn’t a gain. It’s the stealing of white workers’ pensions, retirements, and health care by a clever new scam blaming the left while punishing the working and middle classes.

    It’s exactly the same sh!t that the left is organizing around.

    And it’s the same sh!t that the left learned from the right, because it’s the same old GOPe bullshit that we saw in the 1980s under Reaganomics and Greenspanismo, the same old savings and pensions heists of the S&L debacle and countless other examples.

    You’re leading with a Breitbart-tier interpretation of something that isn’t what it pretends to be. The end result is going to be to impoverish the last generation of majority white workers…

    …in the name of education reform.

  429. Olorin says:
    @Bubba

    Just a clue for the knejerk Bidness Uber Alles neocons, but “education professionals” aren’t just faculty.

    And I’d bet that the majority of these layoffs are not faculty at all, never mind the kneejerk neocon example that asserts they’re all “LGBT and Feminism professors” in the name of scoring reactionary eructation points with the Israel First GOP voter mob.

    Colleges and universities are little cities and towns. The state universities are generally run by a higher tier of infrastructure, service, and white collar workers than pick-a-random-city-or-town.

    In my state, e.g., IT professionals get paid nowhere near “market value” because they want home and family lives rather than the “ride-the-bosses’-c0ck-carousel” existence of Big Tech and its permatemp culture that rewards pajeets and punishes white men.

    For the past half century, colleges and universities have been the cities and towns they’re able to build that are less degenerate, less chock full of criminal morons, than municipalities (especially ones whose civil and professional services have been turned over completely to affirmative action hires).

    But hey, I know that all sorts of Asian and (((other))) investors want to get their hands on education real estate for development into more inflatable suburbs and facilities for monetarizing biology (“health” “care”). And at the end of the day, what is more important to the United States of America than real estate speculation?

    One last thing. I keep hearing the ostensible New Right/dissident right talk about how we have to rebuild and restore…while comments like this aim to tear down every last thing that white men (and some women) have built.

    I don’t see how it differs one iota from the antifa left. They want to tear everything down in the name of “justice” and “equity,” the right wants to tear everything down in the name of “free markets” and “stickin’ it to the feminists.”

    Nobody–but NOBODY–is looking to actually conserve, to actually be conservative, what is best of what has been built.

    And over it all the wrinkled countenance and sixly schnozz of Alan Greenspan exhales with a whiff of sulfur and cadaverine.

  430. @YetAnotherAnon

    ‘Many such cases!’

    Yeah. Thinking about it, I can recall one, two, three, four, five…six people I knew who either definitely or apparently used massive amounts of marijuana in early adolescence.

    Of course, at least one of them was short a beer out of the six pack to start with, but…

    Of the six, one committed suicide, one died of alcoholism, one finally managed to contract and die of a particularly nasty strain of malaria by going to Uganda and not taking his anti-malarial drugs, one lives alone in a ghetto apartment in East Oakland, and another seems to live under similarly dreary circumstances up around Lake Tahoe. The sixth is merely very unpleasant to deal with.

    So only one out of six is even superficially functional, and three are literally dead.

    It’s ironic to reflect that circumstances were such that I was only occasionally able to join in the festivities — I probably felt deprived on that account at the time, but it may have had its points.

  431. Precious says:
    @gcochran

    I followed Duesberg from when he started talking about his: he never made any sense, and every one of his predictions was falsified

    I can’t argue with much of what you are saying because I stopped paying much attention to news on HIV/AIDS around the year 2000. But I do recall that this isn’t entirely true, that Duesberg pointed out that the early drugs used to treat HIV positive people were extremely deadly and were killing people and those treatments needed to be abandoned. This prediction did turn out true, once the treatment program switched to less toxic medications people are now living with their condition much longer and people acknowledge being HIV positive is no longer a death sentence.

    Coincidentally, all the editors happened to have HIV, and even more coincidentally, the magazine ceased publication when every one of them died of AIDs.

    This statement is utterly meaningless. I watched the CDC just keep adding and adding lists of diseases and conditions to AIDS as more people who were HIV positive died from various diseases and conditions. About the only way you could be HIV positive and not die of AIDS is if you were run over by a car.

    • Replies: @Lot
  432. @gcochran

    ‘…In my favorite example, there was a magazine whose raison d’etre was that AIDs wasn’t really caused by HIV. Coincidentally, all the editors happened to have HIV, and even more coincidentally, the magazine ceased publication when every one of them died of AIDs…’

    I remember seeing some magazine whose cover article urged those diagnosed with HIV to not trust on big medicine, but rely on ‘natural’ cures instead.

    My thought was, ‘well, there’s a chance to make a second big mistake.’

  433. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    First, or close to it. That and liberalized (not legalized) abortion were the two bills regretted signing most. Simpson-Mazzoli would have made the list had he remained lucid long enough to see its betrayal.

  434. Larry says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    @ Buzz Mohawk—a brief reply to your prejudiced, knee-jerk comments : First off, do your Homework, Buzz—Gay people had NOTHING TO DO with the Aids epidemic !!! “Aids” is a GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED disease, created in a test tube, and, it is even registered with the U.S. Patent office, believe it or not !! So, therefore ANYBODY is capable of coming down with this disease, from what I have learned. Hope this information has woke you up, and enlightened you, somewhat. Take care.

  435. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Medium, with all your obfuscation, you’ve actually made Steve’s point–and more:

    If it had been treated the way Legionnaire’s Disease was a few years prior, the number of victims would have been enormously reduced, but it was essentially allowed to spread unchecked until the mid to late 80s. Gay community activists who put sexual liberation first and protested against bathhouse closure and widespread, direct public health campaigns are certainly to blame as well, but they were also operating from a place of (understandable) deep mistrust towards the government.

    Dindu nuffin–homo division.

    Boiled down you are asserting: we gays are entitled to (literally) screw up, generate a massive disease outbreak and you heteros have to fix it … and fast!

    Now i think we white sciency guys are pretty dang awesome, but believe it or not we can not just snap our fingers and cure disease.

    Contra your bogus narrative, AIDS cases–as a definite epidemiological thing with homosexuals getting these rare cancers–in 1981 in New York. Popular press coverage was immediate–i read about it first in Newsweek about that time. The CDC realized that the syndrome affected mostly but not entirely homosexuals, including also heroin addicts, some Haitians (who at least claimed not to be homos) and hemophiliacs (i.e our blood supply was infected) and named it AIDS. In 1983 three teams indentified two different retrovirus strands as culprits–named HIV.

    However what we couldn’t do is just snap our fingers and generate a cure. It wasn’t a simple bacteria infection (and some of those are nightmares now), nor a simple viral infection, but this more tricky retro-virus. We still don’t have a “cure” almost 40 years later. But certainly not for lack of spending.

    There was an incredible–incredibly bogus–propaganda campaign. Homosexuals were all cuddly innocent victims, who’d done nothing wrong, and “AIDS doesn’t discriminate” and we’re all going to die if we don’t “cure AIDS”.

    This was cover for an immediate and unbelievable and unprecedented spending binge on AIDS. Funding for AIDS exploded at the expense of basically everything else. Medical researchers had to twist and contort whatever work they were doing as AIDS related to try and get funding. All sorts of useful research–and development of research talent–across all other fields was dropped, hit the floor, orphaned, destroyed by the AIDS juggernaut. But again …

    But what the government did not do was precisely take the public health measures that could stop the disease:
    — close the bathhouses … because the homo activists objected; because the bathhouses really are what lots of homos consider their liberation–to go out and stick their dicks in dozens of men in one night.
    — quarantine carriers … because that’s “discrimination”
    — do standard issue venereal disease tracking and partner notification — cause that is “stigmatizing” and “discrimination”

    As a bunch of people–myself included–noted at the time–a PC wakeup call for many of us–AIDS was a disease with Civil Rights!

    That’s your “government inaction”–all, i mean *all*, every last bit–because of homosexual whining that unfortunately politicians caved to.

    Contra to your narrative of normal people’s indifference and inaction–completely false–homosexuals could have stopped this easily:
    — stopping anal sodomy (just give each other blow jobs)
    — stop promiscuity, just be monogamous
    — using condoms; just using condoms!
    — stopping cruising, stopping high promiscuity
    — even just closing bathhouses!!! seriously, just closing bathhouse/bathhouse multipartner orgy culture would have put a huge dent in the AIDS epidemic.

    Any serious movement to take these steps would have shut this thing down completely–crater the spread, hence the epidemic–… and you homos refused to do it.

    For the homo, nothing–nothing!–was more important than jamming his dick bareback into a random strangers rectums. That’s why we had an AIDS epidemic. No other reason–just that.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, TWS
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @anon19
  436. Lot says:
    @orionyx

    Bro you got no chimp game at all, it takes bananas to set the mood right.

  437. Lot says:
    @Precious

    “Duesberg pointed out that the early drugs used to treat HIV positive people were extremely deadly and were killing people and those treatments needed to be abandoned.”

    AZT was approved in 1987 and is still used. That’s pretty early, and it was the first drug approved by the FDA for HIV treatment.

    Non-approved experimental drugs on people with a fatal disease sometimes don’t work and kill them…. that’s normal and you get no credit for “pointing that out.”

    • Replies: @Precious
  438. @prime noticer

    heteros still continue to get HIV – hetero women that is. by the CDC’s own numbers, thousands of women are getting HIV every year. they get it by having sex with a bisexual man, who got HIV from another man.

    I’m not much interesting in telling people–including homos–what to do. So ultimately–at least until we get the cause of homosexuality figured out and just end it–i’d like to get the homos separated off to homoland, so the normal people who actually maintain both civilization and our prosperity can do so in peace.

    But barring that joyous occurence, we should criminalize fags having sex with women. If a man has sex with men–he’s a fag. Case closed. Once he does that, that should be it. No more vagina. Doing so exposes that women and eventually some normal men to all the disease matrix that homosexuals are incubating and cultivating.

    Homos can go do their thing, but under no circumstances should their pathogen generating degeneracy be thrust onto the rest of us.

  439. Art Deco says:
    @AnotherDad

    The confidentiality rules in re HIV status were exceptional. However, they really couldn’t do much contact tracing. Male homosexuals are generally uber-promiscuous and the long latency period between infection and the development of AIDS Related Complex was so long that tracing more than a modest fraction of contacts was hopeless.

    When Mayor Koch died, there were quondam ACT-UP members who danced on his grave. The disposition of vanguard homosexuals during that period was frankly appalling. The conventional role of local government in securing public health is precisely the role many vanguard homosexuals did not want local governments to play (IIRC, Larry Kramer took exception to this disposition). Municipal governments are not in the business of medical research. That’s the business of higher education, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, and stand-alone centers, many of them subsidiaries of the government or financed by it. And the skill set to conduct research in virology and epidemiology isn’t learned in a basic training course. Nevertheless, the gay lobby was enraged with Koch (in large measure because he reminded them that there were always competing claimants for public resources, something maddening to people who fancy themselves Special).

    • Agree: Johann Ricke, Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Feryl
  440. OSweet says:
    @Charles_Martel

    I remember that joke, but told a little differently:

    Q. What’s the worst thing about having AIDS?
    A. Trying to convince your parents you’re Haitian.

  441. JSM says:
    @Pericles

    Remember sweet little Kimberly Bergalis? White straight girl, virgin, caught AIDS. The gays tried to
    say, see, AIDS doesn’t discriminate. Turns out, her gay dentist with AIDS, in order to make Straight White America sympathetic to gay AIDS, infected her with his blood during a dental procedure. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/06/11/Friend-says-Acer-may-have-spread-AIDS-intentionally/8887708235200/

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  442. @anonymous

    Right, right and so did Magic Johnson. Uh huh, no doubt about it.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
  443. Trutherator says: • Website
    @Tiny Duck

    Oh yeah, tiny duck, Christian’s made you visit bathhouses and diddle around as much as you could, right. Well I remember how it was. Christian’s held you at gunpoint and forced you to mix sperm and feces and all the rest, and tear up your rectum.

    Christian’s were warning and were the loudest voices demanding the same treatment for AIDS as for others one doctor even wrote a book, where he said n the title that this was the first “politically protected disease”.

    I remember one guy who was arrested for spreading it to as many as he could, he said, and spit on the officer who arrested him, besides.

    I met a guy there in Miami, missionary, who was part of an evangelical community that cared for dying gays when nobody else would come near them, including their gay “friends”. Jesus Christ, St. Francis being shining examples of that kind of love.

  444. anon19 says:
    @Craig Nelsen

    Destroying white nations and ethnicities is their key agenda.

  445. Anounder says:
    @Gross Terry

    Sodomy is far more represented than any other action on the list. Which back what’s been said here about its perversion.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  446. @orionyx

    Nancy Padian published a similar study in 1987, although her results included many (but still surprisingly few under the prevailing wisdom) cases of seroconversion.

  447. Art Deco says:
    @JSM

    She was neither sweet nor little. About 22 years old during the controversy, tall, vocal, and angry.

    About six of Acer’s patients were infected. A young dentist he’d hired as an associate said he didn’t use best practices in maintaining his equipment (and she bickered with him over it) and at least one of those infected patients had a grisly tale of some botched work where in she was bleeding and he cut his finger on a filed-down tooth in her mouth. IIRC, there was a microanalysis of signatures of the HIV infection that these six people had which identified Acer as the source. Acer wasn’t a gay militant, btw. Just a really crummy dentist.

    Miss Bergalis fell ill abnormally quickly after her procedure in Acer’s office. Peter Duesberg did offer a fairly plausible analysis of her case presenting a thesis that what killed her was not the disease, but the toxic effects of AZT.

  448. @anonymous

    How could you possibly know that?

  449. Precious says:
    @Lot

    Two more Duesberg predictions which are still true:

    1) AIDS will not spread to the predominant heterosexual population.
    2) They will not be able to develop a vaccine to prevent AIDS.

    Does he get no credit for these as well? The majority consensus has plenty of failed predictions of their own.

  450. @Mis(ter)Anthrope

    I knew a guy (by “knew” I mean I have long since lost touch with him) who was an LA-based sportswriter for a national sports magazine at the the time. He told me it was common knowledge in his profession that Johnson frequently had sex with men. He was also a heavy cocaine user.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  451. @Art Deco

    When male aggression is denied it’s traditional outlet of war it will create new and terrible ones, as the Mississippi carves itself new courses regardless of terrain or soil.

  452. Art Deco says:
    @William Badwhite

    Michael Fumento wrote about this ca. 1991. He said there had been quite a bit of subterranean chatter about Johnson for a number of years. IIRC, he gave dates and places where he’d seen men in T-shirts with references to it.

    One curio about the Johnson family is that the son he sired in 1992 grew up to be a caricature of the sort you might see on the old In Living Color program.

    v.

  453. Feryl says:
    @Anounder

    IV drug use and industrial scale promiscuity is represented well, too. Gay men often hit the “trifecta” of anal sex, high promiscuity, and hard drug use. Doing any of these things is bad enough, but all three at once? Keep in mind that John Holmes (a porn star drug user who may have “done” men for drug money), when he had AIDS in the 80’s, had a long term porn star girl friend who never caught AIDS. You really have to be in extremely intimate contact with someone’s biological material, to catch AIDS (like in the David Acer case, where his fluids were exposed to dental patients undergoing surgery who were therefore extremely vulnerable to infection). Having gentle and traditional sex with an HIV pos. person is not something I recommend, but it theoretically could be done without infection (and some people evidently have done so)

  454. Feryl says:
    @Art Deco

    The confidentiality rules in re HIV status were exceptional. However, they really couldn’t do much contact tracing. Male homosexuals are generally uber-promiscuous and the long latency period between infection and the development of AIDS Related Complex was so long that tracing more than a modest fraction of contacts was hopeless.

    Which is why the idea that AIDS is an “80’s” disease was always stupid. Lots of men were infected in the 70’s, but the full onset of symptoms didn’t show up until the 80’s.

  455. The more I think about the more heartbreaking this post is. Steve, I have followed you for years and looked up to you so much. As a young man that felt trapped between ultra liberal SJW rhetoric and extreme far right rhetoric, you opened my eyes, you taught me how to really read the media and look for what is really being said (usually based on what is not being said) and I found a thoughtful, logical middle. Unlike most conservative-leaning blogs, you never posted anti-gay screeds and never made me feel like I was unwelcome. You even featured one of my posts once in your blog. But how can you be committed to the truth and post such a huge blanket statement like “gay liberation caused AIDS”. Not even “gay liberation caused an increase in sexual partners that led to widespread transmission of HIV/AIDS among gay men”. Just AIDS, period. Do you actually know anything about the epidemiology of the disease? Why do you think this is one of your most controversial posts? All the hidden gays lurking wanting to defend our honour? Please don’t become another version of the clickbait garbage that exists elsewhere on the internet. You’re losing me and I’m sure many others with posts like this.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  456. @AnotherDad

    Because no gay man ever contributed to civilization.

    The number of non-intravenous drug users and non-gay people getting HIV is infinitesimally small these days. You can rest assured that when your wife cheats on you, you will be fine.

  457. @prime noticer

    I’ll have to look up statistics again. Thank you for caring so much about gay men though, it’s really heartwarming to see all this outpouring of support towards the gay community. They’re the majority of HIV cases after all right?

    And no, I will not GTFO. Unfortunately for you, you will have to deal with “these people” here, at your job, in your government, in your media, at your children’s school, at your local bar, in the street, maybe even one of your kids will turn out gay and there is literally nothing you can do to predict, prevent, or stop it. We are everyday people from every walk of life, every social class, race, ethnicity, nationality. We exist and we will not go quietly into that good night.

  458. @Paleo Retiree

    “The political gays who drove the Safe Sex response to the HIV/AIDS crisis were, in other words, responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths”

    This is absolutely true. Many political gays at the time stalled efforts to close bathhouses and deliver effective public health warnings that explicitly outlined how the disease was transmitted. They all have blood on their hands.

    Still doesn’t mean this blog post is accurate. The epidemiology of intravenous drug users is entirely different, as is the spread of the disease among Africans/Haitians/etc.. Plus, the blood bank/transfusions/haemophiliac issue was due to the fact that blood banks flat out refused to do anything about the issue out of sheer denial and fear of loss of profits. Those other routes of transmission were a huge part of the AIDS epidemic, it was never just about gay men.

  459. @anon

    I meant globally, I really did! “AIDS epidemic” has been a global thing since the 80s and the majority of new cases have been in Africa since the 90s. I am aware that in the US the majority of cases are among gay men. Concern over HIV is still a huge thing today in gay world. In fact PrEP, the pill you can take that supposedly makes you unable to get it (think of it as a vaccine you need to take every morning) really concerns me because it’s leading to an increase in other STDs since less guys use condoms now. Cue “well it IS the gays fault after all!”.

    Apparently a lot of people are telling me that the HIV/AIDS cases in Africa are also related to gay sex. I’ve done a lot of research on the subject and it’s not what I’ve found. What I did find is that researchers were surprised by how promiscuous the women were. Also, untreated venereal diseases in men make HIV much easier to transmit in PIV (penis in vagina) sex, yes that’s a medical term. Herpes sores mean the virus can get in through there. Apparently there’s a lot more of that in Africa too. Always happy to be proven wrong!

    • Replies: @Precious
  460. @JMcG

    So the hundreds of thousands of gay men who died worldwide were not innocents in your view? Why? A huge amount were infected in the late 70s/early 80s before anyone knew what was even happening.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    , @Art Deco
  461. vinteuil says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    TMITM – I share some of your annoyance with this thread, but I can’t really blame SS for the original post. Of course, he’s exaggerating if he’s saying that “gay liberation” was the sole cause of the AIDS catastrophe, but isn’t it just obvious that it played a primary role in the catastrophe, and that the going narrative that pins the blame on Ronald & Nancy Reagan is total B.S., badly in need of push-back?

    That said, I wish that in comments SS would adopt the same zero-tolerance policy when it comes to the epithets “homo” & “fag” that he currently employs when it comes to comparable anti-black & anti-semitic slurs.

  462. vinteuil says:
    @AnotherDad

    AD, I know you’re just blowing off steam, and I know there’s a lot of steam that needs blowing off, these days – but, seriously – this comment could be greatly improved by refining your language, a bit.

  463. vinteuil says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    And no, I will not GTFO.

    Well done.

  464. Thea says:
    @Lot

    3. Contaminated medical equipment in hospitals such as reused needles helped it spread there as well. French doctors documented in the 80s the rather harsh choice of treating a patient with a used needle vs not being able to treat them at all

  465. Thea says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    There is no such thing as a gay “community.” A community is a multi-generational collection of people with bonds that endure over time. Much like youth culture doesn’t exist in itself as culture has to be passed from parent to child.

    The only common link sodomites have is their enjoyment of an activity the Lord calls a sin. It would be like saying adulterers have a community due to their shared love of schtupping someone not their spouse. There are a no institutions built or enduring values to it beyond hedonism.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  466. Thea says:
    @Feryl

    What you keep blaming on Boomers are just symptoms of wealth. Looking back at other decadent societies you see a pattern that only affluence allows self indulgence at such levels. The boomers experienced the post wwii boom that still allows us to not worry about where our next meal is coming from.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
  467. Thea says:
    @Colin Wright

    A very interesting question.

    What would you say the fundamental assumption of America is? That maximum individual freedom in the form of unrestricted autonomy and choice is a moral imperative?

    If this is the basic assumption of a society it really can’t stand as people need belonging and responsibilities to something larger than themselves. It is surprising America lasted and thrived as long as it has. Unless the original assumption was corrupted and misinterpreted over the centuries.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  468. vinteuil says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    So the hundreds of thousands of gay men who died worldwide were not innocents in your view? Why? A huge amount were infected in the late 70s/early 80s before anyone knew what was even happening.

    TMITM: “innocents?”

    Obviously, you weren’t there, at the time.

  469. Precious says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    Apparently a lot of people are telling me that the HIV/AIDS cases in Africa are also related to gay sex. I’ve done a lot of research on the subject and it’s not what I’ve found. What I did find is that researchers were surprised by how promiscuous the women were. Also, untreated venereal diseases in men make HIV much easier to transmit in PIV (penis in vagina) sex, yes that’s a medical term.

    Africa does not use HIV testing to determine who has AIDS. That is because HIV testing is too expensive in Africa.

    You could take the symptoms of two sets of AIDS patients in Africa, write them up in a medical chart, bring them to an American hospital and attach it to the bed of a patient there and let a doctor come review it, and you know what that doctor is going to diagnose for that patient?

    First set : Malnutrition
    Second set : Malaria

    If you check AIDS symptoms of HIV patients in the USA, they aren’t going to match up with the symptoms of malnutrition and malaria.

    In other words, AIDS Africa and AIDS USA are unrelated diseases.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  470. Art Deco says:
    @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    About 140,000 homosexual men died of the disease prior to 1995. That’s the crew you would generally wager were infected prior to 1983. While every case is different, you can reasonably say most of these chaps lived rather debauched lives, so the term ‘innocent’ would be a misnomer. (‘Unawares’ might not be). See Larry Kramer’s Faggots (published in 1978) for a fictionalized account of life in New York at that time. Calling attention to the ecology of male homosexual subcultures and how this nurtured the epidemic wasn’t all that unusual at the time. Mainstream press types like Robert Bazell did so as early as 1983. See also Gabriel Rotello’s book, published in 1997.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  471. @Hail

    In my opinion, the most probable cause of AIDS is the US military research department that asked congress in the 1970s (I think it was) for $10million to develop just such a virus. The leader of the group that did it was a Dr McArthur. The whole process and his research into it is described in some detail by the late Prof. Jakob Segal who was professor of Biology at Humboldt University. His writings on the subject were still readable on the internet last time I looked. He was, of course, well rubbished for saying that but never properly refuted. Anyway well worth a read, and to my mind convincing. The accounts of people who tried to get experts to confirm or refute Segal are also interesting.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  472. @Hail

    http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Urgent_Action/AIDS_Contract.html

    Most of the material written by Segal seems to have been suppressed but there is still this.

  473. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    I don’t know if they still do it, but when the Badwhites lived in the SF Bay Area the disgusting Folsom Street Fair was held every year on Easter Sunday as a deliberate f*&k you to Christians.

    You seem like a decent enough fellow, but you should understand that the “gay community” has gone out of its way to earn the enmity of normal people. Its hard for people to have much sympathy for a group of people that puts so much effort into being offensive.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  474. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    AIDS was caused by a great multitude of factors,

    AIDS is caused by a virus which is a product of the US Military’s research labs and was produced by fusing two viruses together. A virus which affects sheep, visna, which makes them sleepy and weak and a virus which affects humans giving them a blood cancer. Congress voted $10million for this research in the mid ’70s and the resulting virus was tested on prisoners who were serving life sentences, with the promise that if they agreed to this injection they would be freed if nothing happened after a year. The year expired and they were released, near Ney York. and then they started to fall ill. The rest is history and a cover-up which continues to this day.

    Google (or use some better search engine) “Was there an AIDS contract?”

  475. @Thea

    ‘…What would you say the fundamental assumption of America is? That maximum individual freedom in the form of unrestricted autonomy and choice is a moral imperative?

    If this is the basic assumption of a society it really can’t stand as people need belonging and responsibilities to something larger than themselves. It is surprising America lasted and thrived as long as it has. Unless the original assumption was corrupted and misinterpreted over the centuries.’

    It’s possible you’re right; however, in context, it’s hard to see what your point might be.

    Why would adding a second unattainable goal improve matters?

  476. @AnotherDad

    ‘…Homos can go do their thing, but under no circumstances should their pathogen generating degeneracy be thrust onto the rest of us.’

    The difficulty with that is is that as with so much else in life, it’s not a matter of black and white; it’s a continuum from people who genuinely have never had a homosexual impulse in their lives to flaming queers — and everyone in between.

    To take some examples: I had an awkward moment when a friend of mine (who is definitely heterosexual) commented that ‘everyone experimented’ in adolescence. I broke it to him that I hadn’t ever done any such thing; and worse, couldn’t seriously picture doing it.

    Siegfried Sassoon — the World War One poet and winner of the Military Cross — started out as homosexual, eventually decided he wasn’t, got married, and fathered at least one child.

    And so on — right down to that creature you saw once on the corner whose lifestyle you don’t even want to think about. There’s no obvious place to draw a line.

    …nor should it be necessary to draw a line. I can think of all sorts of reprehensible practices that I don’t particularly want to ferret out and punish — I just don’t want to see them celebrated and endorsed via our various social institutions. Knock yourself out; but let’s not have floats on Main Street, please.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  477. vinteuil says:
    @Thea

    There is no such thing as a gay “community.” A community is a multi-generational collection of people with bonds that endure over time.

    Well, if that’s the way you want to use the word “community,” nobody’s stopping you. But other people use the word differently.

    Would you prefer that TMITM say, perhaps, “sub-culture” instead of “community?” Would that make you happier?

    Would it make any substantive difference?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  478. vinteuil says:
    @Precious

    AIDS Africa and AIDS USA are unrelated diseases.

    That may be going too far – but I think it’s fair to say that nobody really knows what’s going on with AIDS in Africa. It remains the dark continent.

  479. vinteuil says:
    @Art Deco

    As always with you, well researched & well expressed. In hindsight, these guys were playing with fire, and they should have known it. But those were crazy times, and they were thinking with their dicks.

  480. vinteuil says:
    @William Badwhite

    the “gay community” has gone out of its way to earn the enmity of normal people.

    Unfortunately, you’re right. And it just keeps getting worse.

    Gay marriage was supposed to tame gay people – to get them to behave themselves, and to accept traditional heterosexual norms like life-long commitment & sexual fidelity & all that jazz.

    Like that was ever going to happen.

    Instead, it’s just led to ever more strident demands for ever loonier stuff, like chemical manipulation of pre-pubescent children to get them to conform to the gender roles that the powers that be have chosen for them.

  481. @foolisholdman

    Your handle well describes what you said.

  482. Feryl says:
    @Colin Wright

    To take some examples: I had an awkward moment when a friend of mine (who is definitely heterosexual) commented that ‘everyone experimented’ in adolescence. I broke it to him that I hadn’t ever done any such thing; and worse, couldn’t seriously picture doing it.

    Kurt Kobain once said that he “wished he was gay” (in order to shock the normies), but never felt any impulse in that direction, to the point that he rejected the advances of a gay friend. Kurt liked to hang out with fellow male outcasts, but he never wanted intimacy with them.

    One bizarre thing I’ve heard of is young male acquantices jerking off around each other (but not necessarily touching each other); can’t say that was my experience, but who am I to judge?

    • Replies: @Wut
  483. Feryl says:
    @Thea

    Well, I’ve stated the same thing on many other occasions. Boomers were born into the greatest society that had ever existed (The Western world of the late 40’s-early 60’s), had virtually no appreciation for the values that produced this society, and preceded to completely wreck society as they advanced from one stage of life to the next (e.g., teen culture disintegrated in the 60’s 70’s, young adult culture disintegrated in the 80’s and 90’s, and middle-aged culture disintegrated in the 2000’s and 2010’s). GIs and Silents did a better job, Boomers are terrible, and Gen X’s track record isn’t as good as the Silents but is better than the Boomers.

    Do any reading on what happened to the performance of an age bracket, over time. Teenagers had fairly good reputations in the 1940’s-50’s (Silents), then became a dangerous and obnoxious nuisance in the 60’s and 70’s (Boomers). Silent generation young adults were known for being painstakingly careful in their approach to forming careers and families, in the 1950’s-60’s, while Boomers were recognized as hostile to traditional families in the 70’s, and were just about as hostile toward building a sustainable professional and financial life in the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s. Aging Silents were known for their expertise, morale boosting, and witty sense of humor in the 80’s and 90’s, when they formed the elder management of business, government, and the church. Aging Boomers are quarrelsome, impulsive, and divisive as “leaders” in the post-2000 era*.

    In the early-mid 2oth century, the up and coming GI gen represented progress and happiness. In the late 20th century, the Silents represented a stagnating and slightly disappointing but still acceptable society. In the early 21st century, the Boomers represent a descent into confusion, dysfunction, and despair.

    *Many alienated X-ers appear to be choosing the margins, the shadows, content to watch their parents and grandparent’s generations burn society to the ground. Ultimately, refusal to get involved will reflect badly on X-ers.

    • Agree: Kronos
    • Replies: @Mark G.
    , @Kronos
  484. Feryl says:
    @Thea

    There are a lot of people on the streets and in prison, right now. Dysfunctional societies, regardless of available resources, fail to take care of their own. We once equitably distributed resources and treated people with humanity (in the 1930’s-1970’s), in the New Deal era. Boomer and X-er leaders, however, to some degree appear to want a dsytopian society filled with hostility, betrayal, and despair, wherein a few big winners get to laugh at the many big losers.

    Millennials and Gen Z have been socialized in this dystopian environment, and have no first-hand memory of an “easy living” society. Nobody in these generations is really buying that “the past” (the New Deal era) was some kind of blight on “freedom” or “free enterprise”. Nope, it’s typically Boomers and to a lesser degree X-ers who have some kind of deep seated resentment of a society in which people agreed to not cut each other’s throats to be a big winner.

    • Replies: @Thea
  485. Thea says:
    @Feryl

    Give me a break, you are incredibly wealthy compared to past generations. The average size of an American home has increased while family size decreased since the 1950s. Car ownership has increased greatly as well. Before that life was less comfortable for thousands of years.

    Generation z hasn’t had to worry about where their next meal is coming from, putting a roof over their head or adequate clothing. Materially you aren’t hurting even if the billionaires have more than you relative to past decades.

    The social breakdown of widespread fornication, divorce and fatherlessness is a side effect of this material wealth.

    I had a job that involved cleaning toilets while on college so no sympathy for your made up problems.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  486. Mark G. says:
    @Feryl

    Boomers, of which I am one, weren’t so much evil as just spoiled. The average household income went from 34 thousand in 1950 to 54 thousand in 1970. This was the period the Boomers grew up in and it was the first period in history that most people were in the middle class. The Boomers themselves were aware of this because they heard the stories from their parents and grandparents about growing up poor. Not many children growing up today would hear stories from their grandparents about things like not having electricity in the house or not being able to afford to ever go to a dentist. Boomers heard that all the time. Even having heard all this, the Boomers didn’t really appreciate how good they had it. They were a very self-indulgent generation. They figured they could tune in, turn on and drop out but there would still be a good paying middle class job waiting for them if they changed their minds. The later Boomers like myself were a little less spoiled because we grew up in the stagflation era of the seventies when the good jobs became hard to find.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
  487. Feryl says:
    @Thea

    Give me a break, you are incredibly wealthy compared to past generations. The average size of an American home has increased while family size decreased since the 1950s. Car ownership has increased greatly as well. Before that life was less comfortable for thousands of years.

    We chose to build smaller homes in the 1940’s-1960’s because people were modest and didn’t want to stand out too much. The McMansion trend of the last 30 years is an embarrassing disgrace; houses have to get bigger and bigger, after all, what kind of “loser” wants to settle for a modest house?

    People could afford the things they bought in the 1950’s-1970’s, for the most part. Nothing like the vast debt levels we’ve seen since the mid-90’s. They pretend to make the “money”, the consumer pretends that they “have” the money.

    My overall point, regardless, isn’t the amount of resources at our disposal but rather, is their distribution. Vastly unequal distribution leads to suspicion that our “leaders” are betraying us, hoarding everything they can get their hands on, and apathetic towards social and communal cohesion. Quality leaders make sure that everyone is on the same page, and trusts each other; decadent leaders create dysfunction and chaos. Now granted, to some Boomers like you, maybe you actually enjoy living in a narcissistic free for all, but personally this sort of world is profoundly demoralizing and sad (thus explaining why depression and suicide rates are so high). I want a world where people have each other’s backs, are confident, friendly, and stoic. I’m tired of living in the current phase of greedy and selfish assholes turning their back on society, and thereby imperiling the long term viability of our society.

    The social breakdown of widespread fornication, divorce and fatherlessness is a side effect of this material wealth.

    Yeah, ok, so “material wealth” is why people born after 1972 have been so slow to get married, so slow to have kids, and often end up living with their parents? Dude, what rock have you been living under? People born since the mid-70’s are flat out broke, compared to the young adults and middle aged people of the 1950’s-1980’s. Elite land-lords, stock holders, and share holders have piled up tons of money precisely by screwing over younger generations over the last 30 years. We don’t live in a middle class paradise anymore. Get a clue.

    • Replies: @Thea
  488. Feryl says:
    @Mark G.

    The later Boomers like myself were a little less spoiled because we grew up in the stagflation era of the seventies when the good jobs became hard to find.

    The thing is, housing and healthcare was practically dirt cheap in the 70’s. That blunted the impact of hiring slow downs and wage freezes in the mid-late 70’s. Plus, few immigrants outside of NYC/LA. I certainly don’t recall many late Boomers living with their parents after finishing high school; nope, the general idea back then was that teenagers hated dealing with their parents and wanted the freedom of living alone.

    But the massive rise in housing costs since the late 90’s have caused a lot of kids to live with their parents.

    Even having heard all this, the Boomers didn’t really appreciate how good they had it. They were a very self-indulgent generation. They figured they could tune in, turn on and drop out but there would still be a good paying middle class job waiting for them if they changed their minds.

    X-ers and later generations expect quarreling over frivolous crap while the elephants in the room keep getting bigger and bigger. It’s now far easier to be a drug addict, a bum, or a prisoner than it is to find a manufacturing job. Thus, why I use the term “dystopia”. Americans are profoundly insecure, and vulnerable to predation and abandonment, then they were in prior eras*.

    *You’d have to go back to the late 19th century to find an America with such arrogant and selfish elites.

  489. Feryl says:
    @Mark G.

    The later Boomers like myself were a little less spoiled because we grew up in the stagflation era of the seventies when the good jobs became hard to find.

    The later Boomer cohort ended up dwarfing the already large early cohort. John Xenakis has data and various theories regarding competition for resources, and how it strains society, sometimes to the breaking point. The sheer entry of the Boomers into the workforce (and housing market) in the 70’s was going to eventually push up demand (and therefore the cost) for many things*, even in the absence of immigration.

    According to Xenakis, when too many people compete too much for resources, eventually tension grows that can erupt in war. Furthermore, in order to have a “great” war, it’s necessary to have a lot of people and a lot of competion, well after the last great war. Thus, America has been building toward another great war ever since the Boomers entered adulthood, and vast numbers of immigrants joined the Boomer filled and ostensibly prosperous USA. The older generations who remembered the previous great war (WW2) must reach total irrelevance in order to make it possible for later generations to start another bloody conflict. In recent Western elections it’s becoming apparent that the post-WW2 generations are growing increasingly restless and combative, with little to no guidance or moderation provided by GIs or Silents anymore.

    *The run-up in costs was delayed due in large part to how relatively small the GI and Silent generations were; not too many of them were born in the first place, and no immigrants were permitted to enter and make their generation larger in the 1930’s-1950’s. On the other hand, many foreign Boomers have clearly been responsible for entering the US and jacking up housing costs, pushing wages down, and taking jobs; the small size of Gen X should’ve helped the situation, but we permitted vast numbers of foreign X-ers to come here also (in fact, Generation X is probably the most globally mobile generation in history, due in large part to Western countries “needing” foreigners to stave off declining population…Oh the horror of a declining population!).

    Peter Turchin says that Western countries, when competently run, are good at creating a certain population equilibrium, for the most part, but this is threatened by extremely high immigration levels.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  490. Feryl says:
    @Feryl

    The vast majority of foreigners in America are Boomers and X-ers, which has been the case since the 70’s and soon too a lot of Millennials and Gen Z will join them, until America either collapses or somehow passes an immigration stoppage.

  491. MBlanc46 says:
    @Tiny Duck

    “Scumbag”? Really? Not up to your usual standards, TD.

  492. MBlanc46 says:
    @Nick Diaz

    I’ve already used my Troll quota this hour, so I’ll have to type “Troll!” Why don’t you just bugger off?

  493. MBlanc46 says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Pete Buttigieg is running for Pres and the word “buttfucking” hasn’t come to mind?

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  494. dfordoom says: • Website
    @vinteuil

    There is no such thing as a gay “community.” A community is a multi-generational collection of people with bonds that endure over time.

    Well, if that’s the way you want to use the word “community,” nobody’s stopping you. But other people use the word differently.

    Would you prefer that TMITM say, perhaps, “sub-culture” instead of “community?” Would that make you happier?

    Would it make any substantive difference?

    Words do matter. That’s why SJWs make such a huge fuss over words. You know, control the language and you control everything.

    I think in this case it’s a valid point. The word community has positive connotations of normality and social order and a web of interlocking duties and responsibilities. The term “gay community” has been adopted for that very reason. But the “gay community” is just a bunch of people who enjoy sodomy. You might as well talk about the heroin-user community, or the alcoholic community.

    One of the reason we’ve lost the culture war is that we have consistently failed to challenge the hijacking of words by the SJWs.

    There’s a reason homosexuals want to be called gay rather than homosexual. Again, it has connotations of niceness and respectability and warm fuzzy feelings.

  495. Thea says:
    @Feryl

    I am not a boomer. I grew up in the same mess as you.

  496. @istevefan

    Well, you know, there’s a new strain of AIDS. It’s called “Hearing AIDS”. You get from listening to assholes.

  497. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    OK, so you’re here and you’re queer. Whaddaya want, a medal?

  498. Wut says:
    @Feryl

    Courtney Love claimed that Kurt, “made out with half the guys in Seattle”….

  499. Kronos says:
    @Feryl

    “*Many alienated X-ers appear to be choosing the margins, the shadows, content to watch their parents and grandparent’s generations burn society to the ground. Ultimately, refusal to get involved will reflect badly on X-ers.”

    But what can they do? Both Gen X and Millennials are tiny compared to the Boomers. The uprisings can only occur in the 2030s. When the Baby Boomers reach population parity with the younger generations. Then, we can chunk them off cliffs Midsommar style.

  500. @MBlanc46

    Only every time I hear his name.

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