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Finally, Tom Wolfe's Great White Defendant Is Found
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After countless false starts over the decades, the media may actually have found themselves a Great White Defendant who not only is not nonexistent, but is even guilty as charged. From the Washington Post:

Screenshot 2016-06-07 17.03.50

 

 

 

 

Bring it on — the brilliant smile of a Stanford swimmer with Olympic dreams, the happy privileged face of a white college kid named Brock Turner. Another picture of him smiling, please.

Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.

In contrast, would the Post use the same headlines for this picture of Jameis Winston, quarterback of NCAA football champion Florida State, being awarded the Heisman Trophy (or being drafted overall #1 by the NFL)?

Why the Florida St. attacker’s
smiling photo is far more
telling than any mugshot

Take a look at Jameis Winston’s happy, privileged face. This is what campus predators look like, America.

By Petula Dvorak – Column

Bring it on — the brilliant smile of a Florida State quarterback with NFL dreams, the happy privileged face of a black college kid named Jameis Winston. Another picture of him smiling, please.

Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.

Nah …

Since the concept of the Great White Defendant is not well known, here’s a reading list.

 
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  1. “Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.”

    So does this mean rape rarely to never happens at HBCUs?

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Jefferson

    "So does this mean rape rarely to never happens at HBCUs?"

    Funny guy.

  2. Steve, Jameis was never convicted of anything. (For the record, I believe he was guilty.) You should use the pictures of one of the Baylor athletes instead.

    • Agree: Marcus
  3. Petulant Divorcee? Cool name, sis.

  4. When Petula Dvorak starts listing the names of a bunch of White male rapists, one of the guys she listed is half Chinese, but he has a German last name just like George Zimmerman.

  5. Off-topic,

    Camille Paglia discusses transgenderism, and commits various thoughtcrimes in the process:

    The transgender stuff starts about 3 minutes in:

    • Replies: @SFG
    @syonredux

    Camille Paglia was always one of the more interesting writers on the left.

    Replies: @anon

    , @PiltdownMan
    @syonredux

    Camille Paglia's interviewer has an uncomprehending look on her face. Utterly priceless.

    Replies: @SteveO

  6. This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @Tiny Duck


    If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil
     
    I suppose being in the public eye as First Gentleman could put a damper on Bill's indiscretions. On the other hand, being in the arena previously as Governor and President never did deter Bill.
    , @Jasper Been
    @Tiny Duck

    Ha ha ha! If only!

    , @Jack D
    @Tiny Duck

    Still trying to figure out if Tiny Dick really means this stuff or is just trolling us.

    It's funny that Hillary never tried to stop (actually enabled) the destructive path of rape and evil cut by the white man who (nominally at least) shares her bed.

    Rape is and always has been a state level crime that the Federal guvment has little to do with, either way , so it's not clear to me the mechanism by which Trump would promote rape or Hillary would stop rape (but only by creepy white men - you wouldn't want to imprison any non-whites). Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Hunsdon, @Jefferson, @ic1000

    , @fish
    @Tiny Duck

    Oh Tiny.....don't fall into the same rut that Troof fell into.....you need to keep the material fresh! Shake things up a bit!

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Tiny Duck


    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil
     
    Perhaps Mr Duck might explain to us why the string of white women who accuse one Bill C are listened to, while those who accuse the other Bill C are ignored.

    It wouldn't be the difference in complexion between the two Bills, would it?
    , @William Badwhite
    @Tiny Duck

    If Trump wins I'm one white guy that's gonna go crazy!

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Tiny Duck

    I read this and immediately laughed, being appreciative of the sarcastic humor that usually permeates these boards. Then I saw who wrote it and I was like, holy shit, he's being serious.

  7. The idea of young upper class Ivy males taking sexual advantage of young women is not new. See for example:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_the_Boys_Are

    (yup, bonus Vlad)

    I’m sure there have been others (Hamlet-Wittenberg ’99 and Ophelia?)

    • Replies: @guest
    @anony-mouse

    Ophelia was totally into it. She only freaked out after Hamlet stopped banging her.

  8. I saw that guy being chased the other day.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3625441/Black-Muslim-chases-white-Trump-supporter-tackles-ground-San-Jose-rally.html

    “Chasing down the last …. ….” It’s a sport.

    You’re gonna need a bigger revolution!

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Tacitus2016

    Anti-Trump folks being violent thugs and cops being useless. How many times must we see this play out before we get groups of young, healthy, strong men to protect Trump supporters? This entire thing is a microcosm of our civilizational decline. If this were a healthy country, no sane person would dare to so much as glare at a Trump supporter.

    Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

  9. @Tiny Duck
    This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Jasper Been, @Jack D, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @William Badwhite, @Hapalong Cassidy

    If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    I suppose being in the public eye as First Gentleman could put a damper on Bill’s indiscretions. On the other hand, being in the arena previously as Governor and President never did deter Bill.

  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, of course. You can drag out hateful stats about who is raping whom. But this may not be the best example. The great white defendant is a shitheel who obviously wormed+lied and has a viral-famous shitheel dad. So yes, it sucks that it’s such a cause for celebration in the usual white-jock-hungry rape paparazzi, but there’s really nothing you can say about 6 months seeming light for a dramatic public rape of a blackout-drunk (as in she can’t remember and probably was unconscious) woman.

    Ideally we can find an exactly comparable black athlete rapist who’s sentenced to 6 months or less for outdoor-raping an acquaintance, although I supposed ‘never convicted’ could be considered even more privileged depending on the evidence against.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    The swimmer was a bad guy, the Dad is inexplicable, and the sentence too light. (Although difficult to find exact comparison given that there is only claim of digit rape).

    But that is not the problem being discussed. At issue is the attempt to generalize the "face of campus rape" based on this one case that is clearly an outlier. He is the only example she cites, as the other cases do not involve conduct at a college campus or students (that I can see).

    Thus, while we can admit the severity of this particular case, we should not allow her to get away with this false generalization.

    , @anon
    @Anonymous


    this is what a campus sexual predator looks like
     
    is the usual filthy media lie from the usual filthy media.
  11. Another picture of him smiling, please. Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.

    Who the hell is saying that rapists can’t be charismatic? Nobody!

    Her conception of everybody else’s conception of reality is a silent movie era trope. Scowling rapists with twirly moustaches and black capes. MUHAHAHAHAHA!

    Is there a name for misunderstanding other people so spectacularly? Austism? Feminism? Deadline?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @kihowi


    Her conception of everybody else’s conception of reality is a silent movie era trope. Scowling rapists with twirly moustaches and black capes. MUHAHAHAHAHA!
     
    No, no. Her conception of other people's conceptions is a big black guy. Her conception of other people's conceptions is probably correct. And if that's the case, those other people's conceptions are correct too!!

    What's going on here is not her living in a fantasy bubble, it's her being faced every day with the knowledge that most of the rape mug shots are blacks and having a lot of difficult not giving in to the obvious conclusions to be drawn from that fact. So when the great white defendant comes along, it's an opportunity to make an excuse to herself.

    The great white defendant is a single data point, but she can stand on it and use the lever of goodthink to move the world to fit the narrative.
    , @Njguy73
    @kihowi


    Is there a name for misunderstanding other people so spectacularly?
     
    Dumbass-dom.
    , @Olorin
    @kihowi

    The name is Petula Dvorak.


    Petula is a columnist for The Washington Post's local team who writes about homeless shelters, gun control, high heels, high school choirs, the politics of parenting, jails, abortion clinics, mayors, modern families, strip clubs and gas prices, among other things. Before coming to The Post, she covered social issues, crime, and courts in New Orleans, New Jersey and Los Angeles. She lives in D.C., is a graduate of the University of Southern California and the mother of two boys.
     
    She graduated from USC in journalism two years before Sabrina Rubin graduated from UPenn. Rubin started out in pre-med and couldn't hack it; Dvorak had an international studies minor, and judging from her writing didn't make much headway in that field. They both came from the era where women got ahead by being more purple than the next guy, and bashing white men.

    When you're competing with Heidi Beirich for the title of Most Likely To Be Mistaken For A Morlock, I guess you write whatever gets you attention.

    http://cdn.newsbusters.org/images/Petula-Dv.jpg

    http://american3rdposition.com/wp-content/uploads/Heidi-Ly-Beirich.jpg
  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    Yes, of course. You can drag out hateful stats about who is raping whom. But this may not be the best example. The great white defendant is a shitheel who obviously wormed+lied and has a viral-famous shitheel dad. So yes, it sucks that it's such a cause for celebration in the usual white-jock-hungry rape paparazzi, but there's really nothing you can say about 6 months seeming light for a dramatic public rape of a blackout-drunk (as in she can't remember and probably was unconscious) woman.

    Ideally we can find an exactly comparable black athlete rapist who's sentenced to 6 months or less for outdoor-raping an acquaintance, although I supposed 'never convicted' could be considered even more privileged depending on the evidence against.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @anon

    The swimmer was a bad guy, the Dad is inexplicable, and the sentence too light. (Although difficult to find exact comparison given that there is only claim of digit rape).

    But that is not the problem being discussed. At issue is the attempt to generalize the “face of campus rape” based on this one case that is clearly an outlier. He is the only example she cites, as the other cases do not involve conduct at a college campus or students (that I can see).

    Thus, while we can admit the severity of this particular case, we should not allow her to get away with this false generalization.

  13. …the happy privileged face of a white man named Bill Clinton. Another picture of him smiling, please. Because this is what a presidential sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.

  14. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    Camille Paglia discusses transgenderism, and commits various thoughtcrimes in the process:

    The transgender stuff starts about 3 minutes in:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-i6YifXLNw

    Replies: @SFG, @PiltdownMan

    Camille Paglia was always one of the more interesting writers on the left.

    • Replies: @anon
    @SFG

    She's smart but damn she's a motor mouth. A little hard to take after a while.

  15. Look at that woman’s face and tell me phrenology isn’t real.

  16. The only way this case could have been both less statistically representative and more appealing to lefties (funny how those are inversely correlated) is if the victim had been a Woman Of (Preferably Non-Yellow) Color.

  17. I happened to see an episode of CSI Miami the other day. I hung around to see if the show was still discriminating against Talent of Color in casting villains. It turns out, the underbelly of Miami remains as white as the BBC’s fictional village of Midsomer.
    This particular episode had a country club tennis pro abangin’ and awastin’ his pro-ettes just cause he could.

    • Replies: @anon
    @G Pinfold

    This is why I love watching the excellent show THE FIRST 48. Since it deals with real life murders and not Hollywood's reel life ones the demographics can't be fudged.

    Replies: @G Pinfold, @donut

  18. Wondering what court case would get elevated from obscurity, simplified, and used to rile up the vote for Hillary. CNN spent an entire morning going from enthusing over the first female presidential candidate and reading the victims letter in this case. Would love to see the happy discussions on whatever replaced jornolist. Is this going to be like the Zimmerman case where the initial media reports are widely inaccurate?

  19. Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like.

    Depends on how you define campus, I guess.

  20. Marty [AKA "coot veal or cot deal"] says:

    I didn’t bother reading the article or the comments thereto above, but the privilege came in the sentencing. The weird part is the judge would appear to be Jewish, Aaron Persky. And by the way, it’s pathetic that a guy with Turner’s looks would have to force himself on anyone.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Marty

    I didn't read all the details of the case, but I read part of the girl's letter to the defendant. She remembers nothing of the incident, having blacked out. Is it possible she consented and forgot? I guess him leaving her behind a dumpster suggests no.

    Replies: @5371

    , @Josh
    @Marty

    He was a freshman. My guess is that they were really drunk. Started grinding on the dance floor anonymously. Started making out. Went somewhere private (he's a freshman so he doesn't have a room at the frat house). This was probably all with very little to zero talking.

    If I were trying to argue on his defense, I would make a big deal about this next point. He fingers her. Is this something a rapist does to an unconscious girl? I'm guessing she was givong some kind of indication that he took for her enjoying it.

    At some point she probably passed out or was at least very close to it. Then the swedes arrive and he runs away. He clearly feels as though he has been caught, so there is an indication of a guilty drunken mind.

    im not sure this kid is a predator. Drunken hookup culture is just going to lead to things like this. Perhaps if it was made clear that normal women don't want to get drunk and have one night stands rather than it being a common sitcom plot. Perhaps men should be encouraged to be chivalrous or of the reputation for being a cad was actually considered a bad thing. What if, gasp, we returned to an era of chaperoned interactions between teenage single mean and women. This disgusting situation is pretty close to what passes for courtship among college kids. Feminism ia part of the cause and is the only socially acceptable "solution" to this.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @AndrewR, @Hippopotamusdrome

    , @Tony
    @Marty

    "And by the way, it’s pathetic that a guy with Turner’s looks would have to force himself on anyone."

    Please, the guy is pretty dicky looking. Though they might find him kind of attractive in jail. He definitely needs to be put in P.C. (Protective Custody aka Punk City) or he's gonna be more than digitally penetrated.

    Replies: @Spmoore8, @Marty

  21. @Tiny Duck
    This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Jasper Been, @Jack D, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @William Badwhite, @Hapalong Cassidy

    Ha ha ha! If only!

  22. @SFG
    @syonredux

    Camille Paglia was always one of the more interesting writers on the left.

    Replies: @anon

    She’s smart but damn she’s a motor mouth. A little hard to take after a while.

  23. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    She’s lying of course. What’s really going on here is that at a subliminal level there’s a repository of rage, frustration and jealousy that she’s venting at this smug, smiling preppie type. She knows that in real life she’d never be a keeper for any well-situated guys. Life has cheated her out of what she really deserves which is to be hailed as some sort of queen. She and others like her have all gone to see 50 Shades where some handsome billionaire, no less, digs up on some nobody woman working retail. This is their entitlement and when it isn’t going to happen emotional cripples like her lash out in bitterness, sublimating it by hiding behind political rhetoric. Commenter Whisky is on to something regarding this sort of thing and should give us his diagnosis.

    • Replies: @Thea
    @anonymous

    I really agree.

    A lot of false rape allegations result from a failure to stick the landing so to speak. Girl puts out for guy way out of her league, he never calls again cause he can do better, girl feels used( to be fair, she was.) sometimes this feeling turns to malice. Campus feminists get involved, hijinks ensue...

    Replies: @Mark2

  24. Funny, from a column here at this blog I distinctly remember that more than half of college rapists were Affirmative-Action-Americans. Did they not get that memo at WaPo?

    Does Dvorak (((echo))) or is she just Shabbos? “Dvorak” is a Czech/Galician surname and is in a few LOLocaust databases but IDK if that is her maiden name or married name, and if it’s her married name, I don’t know her maidan, oops, maiden name, or as they say in Texas, “who she is from home.”

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @TipTipTopKek

    "Does Dvorak (((echo))) or is she just Shabbos? “Dvorak” is a Czech/Galician surname and is in a few LOLocaust databases"

    Why are you having a hard time trying to tell if she is a Jew or a Shiksa? According to most people on The Unz Jews are People Of Color, so there should be zero phenotype overlap between Jews and Whites. It should be 100 percent impossible to ever mistake one for the other.

    , @Olorin
    @TipTipTopKek

    I couldn't find out, but her appearance certainly explains why she's bitter toward good looking white boys.

  25. @Tiny Duck
    This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Jasper Been, @Jack D, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @William Badwhite, @Hapalong Cassidy

    Still trying to figure out if Tiny Dick really means this stuff or is just trolling us.

    It’s funny that Hillary never tried to stop (actually enabled) the destructive path of rape and evil cut by the white man who (nominally at least) shares her bed.

    Rape is and always has been a state level crime that the Federal guvment has little to do with, either way , so it’s not clear to me the mechanism by which Trump would promote rape or Hillary would stop rape (but only by creepy white men – you wouldn’t want to imprison any non-whites). Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @Jack D

    Tiny Duck puts scare quotes around the "rape" of white women by non-white men. So there's rape, and then there's "rape".

    , @Hunsdon
    @Jack D

    Trolling.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    , @Jefferson
    @Jack D

    "Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial".

    Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male? The mainstream media certainly does not treat him like he is one.

    Replies: @Njguy73, @Jim Don Bob, @Connecticut Famer

    , @ic1000
    @Jack D

    Mr. Duck is a right-wing kinda guy. A progressive who comments at iSteve won't write easily-mocked diatribes about the ideals dearest to his heart. Deluded not stupid -- it just doesn't fit.

  26. It kinda makes you wonder if these journalists/sjw’s actually care about the rape victim, or if they’re just excited that they finally have a guilty white guy…

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @JohnnyD

    "It kinda makes you wonder if these journalists/sjw’s actually care about the rape victim, or if they’re just excited that they finally have a guilty white guy…"

    The latter and never the former.

    , @Curle
    @JohnnyD

    'It kinda makes you wonder . . ."

    I quit wondering years ago.

  27. She writes like a 15 year old girl on Tumblr. I haven’t followed mainstream media for the longest time, but as far as I can tell this overly emotional writing style by professionals was not acceptable 5, even 2, heck ONE year ago. There wasn’t this constant shrieking about privilege. Regular, non-political, non hysterical people are going to start to push back at the constant vilification.

    Be careful Manohla Blahnik, the pendulum swings both ways.

  28. @Jack D
    @Tiny Duck

    Still trying to figure out if Tiny Dick really means this stuff or is just trolling us.

    It's funny that Hillary never tried to stop (actually enabled) the destructive path of rape and evil cut by the white man who (nominally at least) shares her bed.

    Rape is and always has been a state level crime that the Federal guvment has little to do with, either way , so it's not clear to me the mechanism by which Trump would promote rape or Hillary would stop rape (but only by creepy white men - you wouldn't want to imprison any non-whites). Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Hunsdon, @Jefferson, @ic1000

    Tiny Duck puts scare quotes around the “rape” of white women by non-white men. So there’s rape, and then there’s “rape”.

  29. They should have run Petula’s photo along with that of the rapist:

    I’m not sure that Petula really needs to be worried about being raped.

    To me, the circumstances of the “rape” are not all that clear cut – two very drunk college students left a party together. The female has no memory of consenting or not consenting to sex. Apparently he didn’t get very far – his conviction was for fingering her, and “intent” to commit rape. It sounds like if anyone was having fun, it was her, at least up until the point where they were interrupted. She was supposedly unconscious but presumably walked to the area where the “assault” occurred. If two very drunk people fumble around in the dark, who raped whom? It’s my understanding that a lot of college women get drunk specifically in order to lower their sexual inhibitions although they often misjudge and end up black out drunk or unconscious (or sometimes even dead).

    Other than the fact that this fellow has Haven Monahan good looks, the circumstances don’t make him the Great White Defendant, at least not to me. If she was a stranger walking down the street and Turner jumped out and dragged her into the bushes (the way actual black/Hispanic rapists often do), THEN he would be the Great White Defendant, but this case was far from that.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Jack D

    Yes, the case in itself sounds fishy to me either.

    , @kihowi
    @Jack D

    You know how it's always the most repulsive specimens can't stop talking about how all men want to rape them?

    It's called bragging.

    Replies: @S. anonyia, @Marcus

    , @Percy Gryce
    @Jack D

    How about a content warning with that picture?

  30. @G Pinfold
    I happened to see an episode of CSI Miami the other day. I hung around to see if the show was still discriminating against Talent of Color in casting villains. It turns out, the underbelly of Miami remains as white as the BBC's fictional village of Midsomer.
    This particular episode had a country club tennis pro abangin' and awastin' his pro-ettes just cause he could.

    Replies: @anon

    This is why I love watching the excellent show THE FIRST 48. Since it deals with real life murders and not Hollywood’s reel life ones the demographics can’t be fudged.

    • Replies: @G Pinfold
    @anon

    Thanks. I'll give it a try.

    , @donut
    @anon

    Better hurry New Orleans just cancelled their contract with the show because so many if not all the murders were black on black and of course it was racist to keep exposing that fact . I believe NOLA is not the first city to do so .

    Replies: @anon

  31. @Tiny Duck
    This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Jasper Been, @Jack D, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @William Badwhite, @Hapalong Cassidy

    Oh Tiny…..don’t fall into the same rut that Troof fell into…..you need to keep the material fresh! Shake things up a bit!

  32. @Jack D
    They should have run Petula's photo along with that of the rapist:

    https://ethicsalarms.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/petula-dv.jpg

    I'm not sure that Petula really needs to be worried about being raped.

    To me, the circumstances of the "rape" are not all that clear cut - two very drunk college students left a party together. The female has no memory of consenting or not consenting to sex. Apparently he didn't get very far - his conviction was for fingering her, and "intent" to commit rape. It sounds like if anyone was having fun, it was her, at least up until the point where they were interrupted. She was supposedly unconscious but presumably walked to the area where the "assault" occurred. If two very drunk people fumble around in the dark, who raped whom? It's my understanding that a lot of college women get drunk specifically in order to lower their sexual inhibitions although they often misjudge and end up black out drunk or unconscious (or sometimes even dead).

    Other than the fact that this fellow has Haven Monahan good looks, the circumstances don't make him the Great White Defendant, at least not to me. If she was a stranger walking down the street and Turner jumped out and dragged her into the bushes (the way actual black/Hispanic rapists often do), THEN he would be the Great White Defendant, but this case was far from that.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @kihowi, @Percy Gryce

    Yes, the case in itself sounds fishy to me either.

  33. Somehow I still think ‘campus predators’, rapists in general, and inter-racial rapists above all, tend to be more often black then white, especially in proportion to their overall numbers in the general population.

  34. And Jon Favreau’s smiling face is more telling than any speech by President Obama?

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/archive/Obama-Staffer-Caught-Groping-Clinton.html

  35. I’m reposting this, the first time it said it was spam for some reason. Sorry if it ends up double posting, Steve.

    https://twitter.com/LadyAodh/status/739226771648700416/photo/1

    If you can’t see the photo, a sole white female Trump supporter is surrounded by a dozen thugs.

    The caption reads “diversity means chasing down the last white person”.

    It’s perfect.

  36. @Jack D
    They should have run Petula's photo along with that of the rapist:

    https://ethicsalarms.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/petula-dv.jpg

    I'm not sure that Petula really needs to be worried about being raped.

    To me, the circumstances of the "rape" are not all that clear cut - two very drunk college students left a party together. The female has no memory of consenting or not consenting to sex. Apparently he didn't get very far - his conviction was for fingering her, and "intent" to commit rape. It sounds like if anyone was having fun, it was her, at least up until the point where they were interrupted. She was supposedly unconscious but presumably walked to the area where the "assault" occurred. If two very drunk people fumble around in the dark, who raped whom? It's my understanding that a lot of college women get drunk specifically in order to lower their sexual inhibitions although they often misjudge and end up black out drunk or unconscious (or sometimes even dead).

    Other than the fact that this fellow has Haven Monahan good looks, the circumstances don't make him the Great White Defendant, at least not to me. If she was a stranger walking down the street and Turner jumped out and dragged her into the bushes (the way actual black/Hispanic rapists often do), THEN he would be the Great White Defendant, but this case was far from that.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @kihowi, @Percy Gryce

    You know how it’s always the most repulsive specimens can’t stop talking about how all men want to rape them?

    It’s called bragging.

    • Replies: @S. anonyia
    @kihowi

    It's not just the repulsive ones. 2/3 of my social media feed is dominated by this case. All my mid 20s friends are in rape hysteria mode. One girl even talked about how there was a high likelihood she would one day be raped because she is "blond and conventionally attractive." A lot of this is just young women imagining that young men are in an uncontrollable frenzy of desire over them.

    One interesting aspect of the story though: apparently the rapist was apprehended by two handsome Swedes.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Chrisnonymous

    , @Marcus
    @kihowi

    Andrea the Hutt herself claimed to have been raped IIRC

  37. Eh, third and final time trying to post this, twice now it’s been marked as spam. Don’t know why…

    https://twitter.com/LadyAodh/status/739226771648700416/photo/1

  38. Six months in county. Clearly the justice system is out for white blood.

  39. I tried to explain to a friend tonight that people bring their preconceptions to these internet stories and they are often false, but the preconception determines their first (and sometimes final) tack on the subject.

    I explained that when Harambe the gorilla was shot apparently most people assumed the kid was white, which is why there are youtube videos of black talk DJ’s excoriating the mother and the zoo for killing the gorilla. Also SJW types, and also me. But, when it turned out that the kid was black, all of a sudden the gorilla was “just an animal” and also that “it could have happened to anyone.” (Except for me, I still am unhappy with the the shooting and the mother.)

    In this case, people see (a) white kid, (b) sexual assault (which automatically becomes “rape”), and (c) assumes penetration. So everyone assumes that this was an imagined entitled white kid Haven Monahaning some freshman who only wanted directions to the library.

    In fact, there is no evidence of penetration, which is why the rape charges were dropped, both of them were drunk, the woman exceedingly so, there is no clear evidence when or for how long she lost consciousness, she claims no memory of the campus party until the following morning when she sobered up in the hospital, but nevertheless wrote a 12,000 word victim impact statement about how her life had been ruined, and even how her attacker’s life was ruined, culminating in a quite inappropriate comparison of herself and the perp with the Twin Towers on 9/11. (Color me suspicious about her memory loss; I know people who have drunk to blackout status, they don’t forget an entire evening.)

    On the other hand, the young man insists that they met at the party, where the 23 y.o. plaintiff attended with her “baby sister” and who danced, flirted, made out and engaged in other consensual behavior with him, before leaving with him and falling down behind the dumpster where they engaged in further sexual behavior.

    I will be quite honest and say I don’t know what actually happened, I know the young guy tried to run when two Swedes came by on their bicycles at 1 AM. But OTOH there clearly was a sexual assault because her level of intoxication (at least 3x BAC) would have made it impossible for her to consent. Therefore I have no problem with the final resolution in this case.

    But the problem is that most people freaking out about this case simply assume that it was penetrative rape in the usual way; they simply don’t know the facts, and they make up their minds on the initial idea, and try as you might they will not budge; counter-intuitively indeed many of the people condemning him now want him to go to prison so he can be raped there; which of course is quite bizarre but there’s a heart of darkness in a lot of SJW types.

    • Replies: @Vinay
    @SPMoore8

    "But the problem is that most people freaking out about this case simply assume that it was penetrative rape in the usual way; "

    He fingered her. In legal terms, this is described as penetration with a foreign object (to distinguish it from intercourse). That's not how people are interpreting it -- they're fixated on the wording and assuming he shoved random stuff into her vagina.

    "they simply don’t know the facts"

    They don't know the *details*. Maybe the problem is that most people are simply not nerdy enough to care about details (like trying to figure out what "foreign object" means).

    , @S. Anonyia
    @SPMoore8

    While I don't doubt that the dude is guilty......

    I'm also suspicious of anyone who claims to have "totally lost their memory" while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious. There is no way that someone would have absolutely no recollection of the HOURS spent at a party before they passed out.

    I think many "blackouts" are probably psychological. It's telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.

    Replies: @guest, @MEH 0910, @ben tillman, @dumpstersquirrel

    , @Simonini
    @SPMoore8

    I think part of the problem here is the people judging campus sexual assaults are too responsible to have a good understanding of how extreme drunkenness works.

    I drank to the point of "blacking out" a few times in my college days. On one of those occasions, my memories stopped around 8:30PM but I was conscious and functioning until after midnight. My friends had no idea I blacked out, other than being more cheerful and social than usual I was acting completely normal. A little after midnight, I started intermittently vomiting until the morning and had to crawl around on the floor because I couldn't walk without falling over. My memory returned sometime during the vomiting.

    Being "blackout" drunk is not something you can tell by looking at a person. Considering the perpetrator here was over 2x the legal limit BAC himself, I think it is crazy to declare she by definition couldn't consent because she was at 3x.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    , @ben tillman
    @SPMoore8


    I will be quite honest and say I don’t know what actually happened, I know the young guy tried to run when two Swedes came by on their bicycles at 1 AM. But OTOH there clearly was a sexual assault because her level of intoxication (at least 3x BAC) would have made it impossible for her to consent.
     
    That is not an accurate statement of the law in most US jurisdictions.
  40. The last famous, guilty, preppy rapist I can think of was Robert Chambers, who also killed his victim. That was 30 years ago.

  41. @Tiny Duck
    This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Jasper Been, @Jack D, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @William Badwhite, @Hapalong Cassidy

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Perhaps Mr Duck might explain to us why the string of white women who accuse one Bill C are listened to, while those who accuse the other Bill C are ignored.

    It wouldn’t be the difference in complexion between the two Bills, would it?

  42. I (almost) can’t believe this is the Washington Post and not The Huffington Post.

    This woman is disturbed; a real nutcase hater of white men. Period.

  43. @Jack D
    @Tiny Duck

    Still trying to figure out if Tiny Dick really means this stuff or is just trolling us.

    It's funny that Hillary never tried to stop (actually enabled) the destructive path of rape and evil cut by the white man who (nominally at least) shares her bed.

    Rape is and always has been a state level crime that the Federal guvment has little to do with, either way , so it's not clear to me the mechanism by which Trump would promote rape or Hillary would stop rape (but only by creepy white men - you wouldn't want to imprison any non-whites). Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Hunsdon, @Jefferson, @ic1000

    Trolling.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @Hunsdon

    And I hope she's getting paid!

  44. @Jack D
    @Tiny Duck

    Still trying to figure out if Tiny Dick really means this stuff or is just trolling us.

    It's funny that Hillary never tried to stop (actually enabled) the destructive path of rape and evil cut by the white man who (nominally at least) shares her bed.

    Rape is and always has been a state level crime that the Federal guvment has little to do with, either way , so it's not clear to me the mechanism by which Trump would promote rape or Hillary would stop rape (but only by creepy white men - you wouldn't want to imprison any non-whites). Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Hunsdon, @Jefferson, @ic1000

    “Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial”.

    Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male? The mainstream media certainly does not treat him like he is one.

    • Replies: @Njguy73
    @Jefferson


    Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male? The mainstream media certainly does not treat him like he is one.
     
    I smell Broadway's next hot musical.

    "How does the son of a dead traveling salesman/dropped in the middle of the Ozarks/grow to be co-President four times?"

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Jefferson

    Jefferson said, "Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male"?

    No. Toni Morrison said he was the first black president. She is a Noble prize winner and you are not, so there!

    , @Connecticut Famer
    @Jefferson

    As is well documented, back in the early 80s the Rodham woman got an acquittal on behalf of an accused rapist. Wonder if that served as a green light for the husband of record.

  45. Ttjy says:

    Are you familiar with the Ched Evans case in the UK. He’s a soccer player would was convicted of rape while his black friend was acquitted, although I don’t think it really had anything to do with race. They both were in the hotel room at the same time. The woman was sober enough to give consent for one guy but was too drunk to give consent to Evans.

    The woman woke up in the hotel room and didn’t remember anything. She didn’t even say she was raped. If the 2 guys just said they didn’t have sex with her, nothing would have been done by the police, but they said they did.

    Old rule-never talk to the police.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rapist-footballer-ched-evans-dossier-6611546

    He spent several years in jail and now the verdict has been quashed..

  46. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    Camille Paglia discusses transgenderism, and commits various thoughtcrimes in the process:

    The transgender stuff starts about 3 minutes in:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-i6YifXLNw

    Replies: @SFG, @PiltdownMan

    Camille Paglia’s interviewer has an uncomprehending look on her face. Utterly priceless.

    • Replies: @SteveO
    @PiltdownMan


    Camille Paglia’s interviewer has an uncomprehending look on her face. Utterly priceless.
     
    Most likely he (or she - there were two interviewer headshots) was literally uncomprehending. The interview appears to have been a Brazilian production, and my goodness but Dr Paglia talks a mile a minute, leaping from one topic to the next without pause. However fluent in English her interviewers might have been, I can't imagine a non-native speaker being able to follow that stream-of-consciousness flood of polysyllabic words.

    For those who could follow along, though, Paglia makes a lot of sense in her points about the dehumanizing effect of careerism, not to mention the decadence of Western society's "transgender mania".
  47. @Tiny Duck
    This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Jasper Been, @Jack D, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @William Badwhite, @Hapalong Cassidy

    If Trump wins I’m one white guy that’s gonna go crazy!

  48. @anon
    @G Pinfold

    This is why I love watching the excellent show THE FIRST 48. Since it deals with real life murders and not Hollywood's reel life ones the demographics can't be fudged.

    Replies: @G Pinfold, @donut

    Thanks. I’ll give it a try.

  49. @kihowi

    Another picture of him smiling, please. Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.
     
    Who the hell is saying that rapists can't be charismatic? Nobody!

    Her conception of everybody else's conception of reality is a silent movie era trope. Scowling rapists with twirly moustaches and black capes. MUHAHAHAHAHA!

    Is there a name for misunderstanding other people so spectacularly? Austism? Feminism? Deadline?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Njguy73, @Olorin

    Her conception of everybody else’s conception of reality is a silent movie era trope. Scowling rapists with twirly moustaches and black capes. MUHAHAHAHAHA!

    No, no. Her conception of other people’s conceptions is a big black guy. Her conception of other people’s conceptions is probably correct. And if that’s the case, those other people’s conceptions are correct too!!

    What’s going on here is not her living in a fantasy bubble, it’s her being faced every day with the knowledge that most of the rape mug shots are blacks and having a lot of difficult not giving in to the obvious conclusions to be drawn from that fact. So when the great white defendant comes along, it’s an opportunity to make an excuse to herself.

    The great white defendant is a single data point, but she can stand on it and use the lever of goodthink to move the world to fit the narrative.

  50. @JohnnyD
    It kinda makes you wonder if these journalists/sjw's actually care about the rape victim, or if they're just excited that they finally have a guilty white guy...

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Curle

    “It kinda makes you wonder if these journalists/sjw’s actually care about the rape victim, or if they’re just excited that they finally have a guilty white guy…”

    The latter and never the former.

  51. @kihowi
    @Jack D

    You know how it's always the most repulsive specimens can't stop talking about how all men want to rape them?

    It's called bragging.

    Replies: @S. anonyia, @Marcus

    It’s not just the repulsive ones. 2/3 of my social media feed is dominated by this case. All my mid 20s friends are in rape hysteria mode. One girl even talked about how there was a high likelihood she would one day be raped because she is “blond and conventionally attractive.” A lot of this is just young women imagining that young men are in an uncontrollable frenzy of desire over them.

    One interesting aspect of the story though: apparently the rapist was apprehended by two handsome Swedes.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @S. anonyia

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/07/the-swedish-stanford-students-who-rescued-an-unconscious-sexual-assault-victim-speak-out/

    Two gentlemen.

    The young punk should have been thrown in the cooler for a couple of years to repent his unmanly behavior. Pine needles? Sheez.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Yngvar, @Marcus

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @S. anonyia

    That kind of behavior is frowned on in Sweden... if the rapist is dark-skinned... so they were lucky he was white...

  52. @S. anonyia
    @kihowi

    It's not just the repulsive ones. 2/3 of my social media feed is dominated by this case. All my mid 20s friends are in rape hysteria mode. One girl even talked about how there was a high likelihood she would one day be raped because she is "blond and conventionally attractive." A lot of this is just young women imagining that young men are in an uncontrollable frenzy of desire over them.

    One interesting aspect of the story though: apparently the rapist was apprehended by two handsome Swedes.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Chrisnonymous

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/07/the-swedish-stanford-students-who-rescued-an-unconscious-sexual-assault-victim-speak-out/

    Two gentlemen.

    The young punk should have been thrown in the cooler for a couple of years to repent his unmanly behavior. Pine needles? Sheez.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @PiltdownMan


    Two gentlemen.
     
    Indeed!

    They may have work cut out for them when (or if) they return to their country. Given their obviously good character and the sound academic credentials, I wish they'd give this country a shot and stay/naturalize here.
    , @Yngvar
    @PiltdownMan

    The two Swedes could've been contenders to the Sung Hero award, but then there's this:


    "When the policeman arrived and interviewed the evil Swede who tackled you, he was crying so hard he couldn’t speak because of what he’d seen."
     
    Sad.
    , @Marcus
    @PiltdownMan

    Jonsson doesn't look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  53. For the sake of clarity and accuracy, it should be noted that Brock Turner, the star collegiate swimmer, was convicted of sexual assault (2 counts) and intent to rape. The actual rape charge was dropped.

    So while he is a heinous sexual offender, deserving of all the opprobrium and punishment he gets, he is technically not a “rapist.”

    By the way, The Washington Post also compiled this list of universities with the most reports of sexual assault: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/06/07/these-colleges-have-the-most-reports-of-rape/

    A Post analysis of the federal data found these 10 schools had the highest total of rape reports on their main campuses in 2014:

    •Brown: 43
    •U-Conn.: 43
    •Dartmouth College: 42
    •Wesleyan University: 37
    •University of Virginia: 35
    •Harvard: 33
    •University of North Carolina at Charlotte: 32
    •Rutgers-New Brunswick: 32
    •University of Vermont: 27
    •Stanford: 26

    Another way of looking at the data is to analyze rape report totals in the context of the size of enrollment. The Post analysis found these 10 schools had the highest total of reports of rape on their main campuses per 1,000 students:

    •Reed College: 12.9 (reports per 1,000)
    •Wesleyan: 11.5
    •Swarthmore College: 11.0
    •Knox College: 10.0
    •Williams College: 8.9
    •Pomona College: 8.5
    •Bowdoin College: 8.3
    •Gallaudet University: 8.1
    •Beloit College: 6.9
    •Dartmouth: 6.7

    Of course, these are reports, not convictions. And it’s not clear from what “federal data” this information is derived. I doubt they are actual police reports or complaints of rape. I am acquainted with several of these campuses, and they are hardly the hunting grounds of rapists’ predations. Many of them are exceedingly safe places, far away from the actual people who commit the bulk of rapes in this country (take a guess). It is far more likely that this is a list of universities where the female students are the most likely to “cry rape.”

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    @Twinkie


    It is far more likely that this is a list of universities where the female students are the most likely to “cry rape.”
     
    Bingo. Very insightful comment. These are mostly upscale, lily-white, relatively elite, ultra-leftist (even by campus standards) liberal arts residential colleges, i.e., the kind of places with little crime but where SJW consciousness is probably highest, part of which is a large infrastructure of counselors, social activists, and other elements of rape-culture bureaucracy.

    Gallaudet, an outlier, seems to share some of these characteristics, but there must be a whole bizarre subculture there. Lots of crying rape, followed by disciplinary hearings and noisy protests I am sure.

    Replies: @Twinkie

  54. From the women’s testimony:

    ” You ran because you said you felt scared. I argue that you were scared because you’d be caught, not because you were scared of two terrifying Swedish grad students”

    I guess it would be ok to be scared of 2 black guys.

  55. @SPMoore8
    I tried to explain to a friend tonight that people bring their preconceptions to these internet stories and they are often false, but the preconception determines their first (and sometimes final) tack on the subject.

    I explained that when Harambe the gorilla was shot apparently most people assumed the kid was white, which is why there are youtube videos of black talk DJ's excoriating the mother and the zoo for killing the gorilla. Also SJW types, and also me. But, when it turned out that the kid was black, all of a sudden the gorilla was "just an animal" and also that "it could have happened to anyone." (Except for me, I still am unhappy with the the shooting and the mother.)

    In this case, people see (a) white kid, (b) sexual assault (which automatically becomes "rape"), and (c) assumes penetration. So everyone assumes that this was an imagined entitled white kid Haven Monahaning some freshman who only wanted directions to the library.

    In fact, there is no evidence of penetration, which is why the rape charges were dropped, both of them were drunk, the woman exceedingly so, there is no clear evidence when or for how long she lost consciousness, she claims no memory of the campus party until the following morning when she sobered up in the hospital, but nevertheless wrote a 12,000 word victim impact statement about how her life had been ruined, and even how her attacker's life was ruined, culminating in a quite inappropriate comparison of herself and the perp with the Twin Towers on 9/11. (Color me suspicious about her memory loss; I know people who have drunk to blackout status, they don't forget an entire evening.)

    On the other hand, the young man insists that they met at the party, where the 23 y.o. plaintiff attended with her "baby sister" and who danced, flirted, made out and engaged in other consensual behavior with him, before leaving with him and falling down behind the dumpster where they engaged in further sexual behavior.

    I will be quite honest and say I don't know what actually happened, I know the young guy tried to run when two Swedes came by on their bicycles at 1 AM. But OTOH there clearly was a sexual assault because her level of intoxication (at least 3x BAC) would have made it impossible for her to consent. Therefore I have no problem with the final resolution in this case.

    But the problem is that most people freaking out about this case simply assume that it was penetrative rape in the usual way; they simply don't know the facts, and they make up their minds on the initial idea, and try as you might they will not budge; counter-intuitively indeed many of the people condemning him now want him to go to prison so he can be raped there; which of course is quite bizarre but there's a heart of darkness in a lot of SJW types.

    Replies: @Vinay, @S. Anonyia, @Simonini, @ben tillman

    “But the problem is that most people freaking out about this case simply assume that it was penetrative rape in the usual way; ”

    He fingered her. In legal terms, this is described as penetration with a foreign object (to distinguish it from intercourse). That’s not how people are interpreting it — they’re fixated on the wording and assuming he shoved random stuff into her vagina.

    “they simply don’t know the facts”

    They don’t know the *details*. Maybe the problem is that most people are simply not nerdy enough to care about details (like trying to figure out what “foreign object” means).

  56. “Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.”
    From a SJW: They all look the same to me. A Whitey misunderstanding.

  57. @Twinkie
    For the sake of clarity and accuracy, it should be noted that Brock Turner, the star collegiate swimmer, was convicted of sexual assault (2 counts) and intent to rape. The actual rape charge was dropped.

    So while he is a heinous sexual offender, deserving of all the opprobrium and punishment he gets, he is technically not a "rapist."

    By the way, The Washington Post also compiled this list of universities with the most reports of sexual assault: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/06/07/these-colleges-have-the-most-reports-of-rape/

    A Post analysis of the federal data found these 10 schools had the highest total of rape reports on their main campuses in 2014:

    •Brown: 43
    •U-Conn.: 43
    •Dartmouth College: 42
    •Wesleyan University: 37
    •University of Virginia: 35
    •Harvard: 33
    •University of North Carolina at Charlotte: 32
    •Rutgers-New Brunswick: 32
    •University of Vermont: 27
    •Stanford: 26

    Another way of looking at the data is to analyze rape report totals in the context of the size of enrollment. The Post analysis found these 10 schools had the highest total of reports of rape on their main campuses per 1,000 students:

    •Reed College: 12.9 (reports per 1,000)
    •Wesleyan: 11.5
    •Swarthmore College: 11.0
    •Knox College: 10.0
    •Williams College: 8.9
    •Pomona College: 8.5
    •Bowdoin College: 8.3
    •Gallaudet University: 8.1
    •Beloit College: 6.9
    •Dartmouth: 6.7
     
    Of course, these are reports, not convictions. And it's not clear from what "federal data" this information is derived. I doubt they are actual police reports or complaints of rape. I am acquainted with several of these campuses, and they are hardly the hunting grounds of rapists' predations. Many of them are exceedingly safe places, far away from the actual people who commit the bulk of rapes in this country (take a guess). It is far more likely that this is a list of universities where the female students are the most likely to "cry rape."

    Replies: @EdwardM

    It is far more likely that this is a list of universities where the female students are the most likely to “cry rape.”

    Bingo. Very insightful comment. These are mostly upscale, lily-white, relatively elite, ultra-leftist (even by campus standards) liberal arts residential colleges, i.e., the kind of places with little crime but where SJW consciousness is probably highest, part of which is a large infrastructure of counselors, social activists, and other elements of rape-culture bureaucracy.

    Gallaudet, an outlier, seems to share some of these characteristics, but there must be a whole bizarre subculture there. Lots of crying rape, followed by disciplinary hearings and noisy protests I am sure.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @EdwardM


    Gallaudet, an outlier, seems to share some of these characteristics, but there must be a whole bizarre subculture there.
     
    I taught some students from Gallaudet one year during my early academic career. While they were not all childish, quite a few of them were given to throwing tantrums when things did not go their way - I don't mean just the usual late teenage whining - I mean actual toddler-like tantrums. It was clear to me that they had been coddled by others because of their disabilities.

    On the other hand, it is possible that deaf girls are subject to greater attempts at sexual assault than the non-deaf. There may be young men who think such young women make easier targets or "conquests." Vulnerabilities tend to attract the predatory, as a rule.

    Replies: @Saint Louis

  58. @PiltdownMan
    @S. anonyia

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/07/the-swedish-stanford-students-who-rescued-an-unconscious-sexual-assault-victim-speak-out/

    Two gentlemen.

    The young punk should have been thrown in the cooler for a couple of years to repent his unmanly behavior. Pine needles? Sheez.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Yngvar, @Marcus

    Two gentlemen.

    Indeed!

    They may have work cut out for them when (or if) they return to their country. Given their obviously good character and the sound academic credentials, I wish they’d give this country a shot and stay/naturalize here.

  59. @Jefferson
    "Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge."

    So does this mean rape rarely to never happens at HBCUs?

    Replies: @Kylie

    “So does this mean rape rarely to never happens at HBCUs?”

    Funny guy.

  60. @kihowi

    Another picture of him smiling, please. Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.
     
    Who the hell is saying that rapists can't be charismatic? Nobody!

    Her conception of everybody else's conception of reality is a silent movie era trope. Scowling rapists with twirly moustaches and black capes. MUHAHAHAHAHA!

    Is there a name for misunderstanding other people so spectacularly? Austism? Feminism? Deadline?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Njguy73, @Olorin

    Is there a name for misunderstanding other people so spectacularly?

    Dumbass-dom.

  61. @EdwardM
    @Twinkie


    It is far more likely that this is a list of universities where the female students are the most likely to “cry rape.”
     
    Bingo. Very insightful comment. These are mostly upscale, lily-white, relatively elite, ultra-leftist (even by campus standards) liberal arts residential colleges, i.e., the kind of places with little crime but where SJW consciousness is probably highest, part of which is a large infrastructure of counselors, social activists, and other elements of rape-culture bureaucracy.

    Gallaudet, an outlier, seems to share some of these characteristics, but there must be a whole bizarre subculture there. Lots of crying rape, followed by disciplinary hearings and noisy protests I am sure.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Gallaudet, an outlier, seems to share some of these characteristics, but there must be a whole bizarre subculture there.

    I taught some students from Gallaudet one year during my early academic career. While they were not all childish, quite a few of them were given to throwing tantrums when things did not go their way – I don’t mean just the usual late teenage whining – I mean actual toddler-like tantrums. It was clear to me that they had been coddled by others because of their disabilities.

    On the other hand, it is possible that deaf girls are subject to greater attempts at sexual assault than the non-deaf. There may be young men who think such young women make easier targets or “conquests.” Vulnerabilities tend to attract the predatory, as a rule.

    • Replies: @Saint Louis
    @Twinkie

    Gallaudet is also located in Northeast DC, nearby some not-so-great neighborhoods.

  62. @Jack D
    They should have run Petula's photo along with that of the rapist:

    https://ethicsalarms.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/petula-dv.jpg

    I'm not sure that Petula really needs to be worried about being raped.

    To me, the circumstances of the "rape" are not all that clear cut - two very drunk college students left a party together. The female has no memory of consenting or not consenting to sex. Apparently he didn't get very far - his conviction was for fingering her, and "intent" to commit rape. It sounds like if anyone was having fun, it was her, at least up until the point where they were interrupted. She was supposedly unconscious but presumably walked to the area where the "assault" occurred. If two very drunk people fumble around in the dark, who raped whom? It's my understanding that a lot of college women get drunk specifically in order to lower their sexual inhibitions although they often misjudge and end up black out drunk or unconscious (or sometimes even dead).

    Other than the fact that this fellow has Haven Monahan good looks, the circumstances don't make him the Great White Defendant, at least not to me. If she was a stranger walking down the street and Turner jumped out and dragged her into the bushes (the way actual black/Hispanic rapists often do), THEN he would be the Great White Defendant, but this case was far from that.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @kihowi, @Percy Gryce

    How about a content warning with that picture?

  63. @Jefferson
    @Jack D

    "Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial".

    Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male? The mainstream media certainly does not treat him like he is one.

    Replies: @Njguy73, @Jim Don Bob, @Connecticut Famer

    Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male? The mainstream media certainly does not treat him like he is one.

    I smell Broadway’s next hot musical.

    “How does the son of a dead traveling salesman/dropped in the middle of the Ozarks/grow to be co-President four times?”

  64. The Washington Post, so Petula Dvorak either lives in the DC city limits or one of it’s suburbs.

    Does Petula Dvorak also believe that most rapists in the Washington DC city limits and metropolitan area (which includes PG County) are White males?

  65. @SPMoore8
    I tried to explain to a friend tonight that people bring their preconceptions to these internet stories and they are often false, but the preconception determines their first (and sometimes final) tack on the subject.

    I explained that when Harambe the gorilla was shot apparently most people assumed the kid was white, which is why there are youtube videos of black talk DJ's excoriating the mother and the zoo for killing the gorilla. Also SJW types, and also me. But, when it turned out that the kid was black, all of a sudden the gorilla was "just an animal" and also that "it could have happened to anyone." (Except for me, I still am unhappy with the the shooting and the mother.)

    In this case, people see (a) white kid, (b) sexual assault (which automatically becomes "rape"), and (c) assumes penetration. So everyone assumes that this was an imagined entitled white kid Haven Monahaning some freshman who only wanted directions to the library.

    In fact, there is no evidence of penetration, which is why the rape charges were dropped, both of them were drunk, the woman exceedingly so, there is no clear evidence when or for how long she lost consciousness, she claims no memory of the campus party until the following morning when she sobered up in the hospital, but nevertheless wrote a 12,000 word victim impact statement about how her life had been ruined, and even how her attacker's life was ruined, culminating in a quite inappropriate comparison of herself and the perp with the Twin Towers on 9/11. (Color me suspicious about her memory loss; I know people who have drunk to blackout status, they don't forget an entire evening.)

    On the other hand, the young man insists that they met at the party, where the 23 y.o. plaintiff attended with her "baby sister" and who danced, flirted, made out and engaged in other consensual behavior with him, before leaving with him and falling down behind the dumpster where they engaged in further sexual behavior.

    I will be quite honest and say I don't know what actually happened, I know the young guy tried to run when two Swedes came by on their bicycles at 1 AM. But OTOH there clearly was a sexual assault because her level of intoxication (at least 3x BAC) would have made it impossible for her to consent. Therefore I have no problem with the final resolution in this case.

    But the problem is that most people freaking out about this case simply assume that it was penetrative rape in the usual way; they simply don't know the facts, and they make up their minds on the initial idea, and try as you might they will not budge; counter-intuitively indeed many of the people condemning him now want him to go to prison so he can be raped there; which of course is quite bizarre but there's a heart of darkness in a lot of SJW types.

    Replies: @Vinay, @S. Anonyia, @Simonini, @ben tillman

    While I don’t doubt that the dude is guilty……

    I’m also suspicious of anyone who claims to have “totally lost their memory” while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious. There is no way that someone would have absolutely no recollection of the HOURS spent at a party before they passed out.

    I think many “blackouts” are probably psychological. It’s telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.

    • Agree: Spmoore8
    • Replies: @guest
    @S. Anonyia

    I've never blacked out, despite occasionally drinking to the point of wishing death upon myself. Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost.

    I am mystified as to how blacking out works for other people. I imagine a lot of them lie. Many more are psychologically coping.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dave Pinsen, @Kylie, @Rapparee

    , @MEH 0910
    @S. Anonyia


    It’s telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.
     
    People vary.
    , @ben tillman
    @S. Anonyia


    I’m also suspicious of anyone who claims to have “totally lost their memory” while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious.
     
    Not necessarily.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    , @dumpstersquirrel
    @S. Anonyia

    "If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious."

    Who is "you"? I can assure you that I don't remember many things up to the point of falling asleep -- When I pass out drunk, depending on how heavily I've imbibed, I might not remember anything that happened in the two hours before passing out and might have minimal, fragmented memories going back as far as six hours.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  66. @PiltdownMan
    @syonredux

    Camille Paglia's interviewer has an uncomprehending look on her face. Utterly priceless.

    Replies: @SteveO

    Camille Paglia’s interviewer has an uncomprehending look on her face. Utterly priceless.

    Most likely he (or she – there were two interviewer headshots) was literally uncomprehending. The interview appears to have been a Brazilian production, and my goodness but Dr Paglia talks a mile a minute, leaping from one topic to the next without pause. However fluent in English her interviewers might have been, I can’t imagine a non-native speaker being able to follow that stream-of-consciousness flood of polysyllabic words.

    For those who could follow along, though, Paglia makes a lot of sense in her points about the dehumanizing effect of careerism, not to mention the decadence of Western society’s “transgender mania”.

  67. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Part of the issue here is that liberal journalists project their experiences to the rest of the country. Liberal journalists are generally SWPL types who either don’t go to colleges with strong athletic programs and lots of black athletes, or don’t travel in the same social circles as black students. If they are friends with blacks or associate with them, they’re generally nerdy or SWPL type blacks, not ordinary blacks or black athletes. They generally don’t hang out with black athletes or go to the same parties. So when they say that “this is what campus predators look like”, part of what they mean is that they generally aren’t in a position to be affected by black predators on campus, who commit most of the rapes overall, because they generally avoid blacks in the first place.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Anonymous

    They know exactly what they're doing.

    They lie to maintain the anti-white narrative.

    It's not just this - the pattern repeats over and over - the filthy media lie to maintain their anti-white narrative and they've been doing it for 50+ years.

    They're utter scum - every one who works for the media is scum.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Tropic of Cancer
    @Anonymous

    I think there's a lot of truth to this. These privileged and cocooned girls project their college experiences onto the whole country. They really do believe that rich drunken white guys are the biggest threat to women nationwide.

    The left's strange obsession with frat boy rapists makes sense when you realise that most female left-wing/feminist leaders have this kind of background.

    Replies: @Marcus

  68. @Maj. Kong
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/andrew-sullivan-retiring-from-blogging/#comment-861189

    I do believe I was there first.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Indeed.

  69. @JohnnyD
    It kinda makes you wonder if these journalists/sjw's actually care about the rape victim, or if they're just excited that they finally have a guilty white guy...

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Curle

    ‘It kinda makes you wonder . . .”

    I quit wondering years ago.

  70. @Marty
    I didn't bother reading the article or the comments thereto above, but the privilege came in the sentencing. The weird part is the judge would appear to be Jewish, Aaron Persky. And by the way, it's pathetic that a guy with Turner's looks would have to force himself on anyone.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Josh, @Tony

    I didn’t read all the details of the case, but I read part of the girl’s letter to the defendant. She remembers nothing of the incident, having blacked out. Is it possible she consented and forgot? I guess him leaving her behind a dumpster suggests no.

    • Replies: @5371
    @Dave Pinsen

    Didn't he run away when surprised? If he had had the balls to stick around, nothing might have happened to him.

  71. The gist of that article is that Brock Turner deserved hatred because he has blond hair and blue eyes – I can’t see any other reason for all that bile and hostility.
    Pure racial hatred in other words.

    The white race – the Judas race.

  72. Duke Lacrosse didnt work out; they never raped the black stripper. Haven Monahan doesnt even exist…but a rich white swimmer named Brock? They’ll take it!

    Of course, in a sane country, a college freshman drunkenly “pleasuring” an even more drunk girl wouldn’t be getting threatened with a long prison sentence.

  73. @anony-mouse
    The idea of young upper class Ivy males taking sexual advantage of young women is not new. See for example:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_the_Boys_Are

    (yup, bonus Vlad)

    I'm sure there have been others (Hamlet-Wittenberg '99 and Ophelia?)

    Replies: @guest

    Ophelia was totally into it. She only freaked out after Hamlet stopped banging her.

  74. @S. Anonyia
    @SPMoore8

    While I don't doubt that the dude is guilty......

    I'm also suspicious of anyone who claims to have "totally lost their memory" while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious. There is no way that someone would have absolutely no recollection of the HOURS spent at a party before they passed out.

    I think many "blackouts" are probably psychological. It's telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.

    Replies: @guest, @MEH 0910, @ben tillman, @dumpstersquirrel

    I’ve never blacked out, despite occasionally drinking to the point of wishing death upon myself. Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost.

    I am mystified as to how blacking out works for other people. I imagine a lot of them lie. Many more are psychologically coping.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @guest

    Oh no, you can lose a lot. I remember things like forgetting how we ended up in this or that club, what I said to somebody, how I got home, etc. Usually some blurred memories returned, but not always.

    However, I cannot believe someone forgets just everything. That sounds like a convenient lie.

    You can forget much of the evening, but you still have to remember a lot of things, especially until you drank your last drink.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @guest

    I've never blacked out, but I have a friend who did. I watched him fall down a flight of stairs after we went out drinking once. I mentioned it the next day and he had no memory of falling.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    , @Kylie
    @guest

    "Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost."

    Same here. I was often the only female in a mixed race group of hard drinkers. A male friend described my behavior in that circumstance as "fun and flirty". But I had good head for liquor and didn't get what my husband calls "stupid drunk". The guys admired my ability to keep up with or surpass them. They ALWAYS treated me respectfully. But gals who couldn't hold their liquor did not fare so well in that college town. Outside of the Olympics, amateurs get no respect.

    Speaking of which, I respected this victim more at first because I thought the swimmer found her passed out and took advantage. I didn't realize she'd hooked up with him at the party. Stupid drunk--both of them.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    , @Rapparee
    @guest

    A lot of so-called blackouts are really "brown-outs"- the hangoveree initially cannot remember last night's events, until someone or something provides a handy reminder. "Oh yeah, I really did that, didn't I?" The memory is in there, someplace, but the brain just can't find the right drawer of the filing cabinet. Following my own few occasions of over-eager merriment and conviviality, my memories were fuzzy, and it was hard to recount the exact order of events, but I never completely lost recall of more than a brief couple of minutes here and there.

    That said, some people make blackouts into a competitive sport. If you drink like many Russians and college students- nonstop vodka shots taken rapidly one after another- you'll be able to forget quite a lot before collapsing to the floor. It takes dedicated practice to be able to keep that much alcohol in one's system while still functioning- novice drinkers will usually crash long before they get there.

  75. “This is what rapists look like”

    Here’s a challenge to the technically literate – can someone access the mugshot pictures from the last year, for rape, and do a composite picture? I get the feeling that the result won’t look Swedish.

  76. @guest
    @S. Anonyia

    I've never blacked out, despite occasionally drinking to the point of wishing death upon myself. Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost.

    I am mystified as to how blacking out works for other people. I imagine a lot of them lie. Many more are psychologically coping.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dave Pinsen, @Kylie, @Rapparee

    Oh no, you can lose a lot. I remember things like forgetting how we ended up in this or that club, what I said to somebody, how I got home, etc. Usually some blurred memories returned, but not always.

    However, I cannot believe someone forgets just everything. That sounds like a convenient lie.

    You can forget much of the evening, but you still have to remember a lot of things, especially until you drank your last drink.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @reiner Tor

    The victims letter makes it sound like the violations she suffered were mainly in the hospital, her vagina being photographed and poked for hours by nurses gathering evidence before letting her shower. If no one told her she had been raped, she might not have had to suffer.

    Replies: @Vinay

  77. Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.

    Total lie.

    Petula Dvorak

    Jewish racist.

  78. @Anonymous
    Yes, of course. You can drag out hateful stats about who is raping whom. But this may not be the best example. The great white defendant is a shitheel who obviously wormed+lied and has a viral-famous shitheel dad. So yes, it sucks that it's such a cause for celebration in the usual white-jock-hungry rape paparazzi, but there's really nothing you can say about 6 months seeming light for a dramatic public rape of a blackout-drunk (as in she can't remember and probably was unconscious) woman.

    Ideally we can find an exactly comparable black athlete rapist who's sentenced to 6 months or less for outdoor-raping an acquaintance, although I supposed 'never convicted' could be considered even more privileged depending on the evidence against.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @anon

    this is what a campus sexual predator looks like

    is the usual filthy media lie from the usual filthy media.

  79. @guest
    @S. Anonyia

    I've never blacked out, despite occasionally drinking to the point of wishing death upon myself. Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost.

    I am mystified as to how blacking out works for other people. I imagine a lot of them lie. Many more are psychologically coping.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dave Pinsen, @Kylie, @Rapparee

    I’ve never blacked out, but I have a friend who did. I watched him fall down a flight of stairs after we went out drinking once. I mentioned it the next day and he had no memory of falling.

    • Agree: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Dave Pinsen

    I can say from personal experience that it's possible.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  80. @reiner Tor
    @guest

    Oh no, you can lose a lot. I remember things like forgetting how we ended up in this or that club, what I said to somebody, how I got home, etc. Usually some blurred memories returned, but not always.

    However, I cannot believe someone forgets just everything. That sounds like a convenient lie.

    You can forget much of the evening, but you still have to remember a lot of things, especially until you drank your last drink.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The victims letter makes it sound like the violations she suffered were mainly in the hospital, her vagina being photographed and poked for hours by nurses gathering evidence before letting her shower. If no one told her she had been raped, she might not have had to suffer.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Vinay
    @Anonymous

    "The victims letter makes it sound like the violations she suffered were mainly in the hospital,"

    Bingo! First, a disclaimer: I have no problem whatsoever with the verdict, the guy really should have known better. With that out of the way, yes, the victim's impact statement, though emotionally powerful, is striking how most of her suffering is difficult to tie to the perp's actions.

    First, there was the effect of lying in the dirt (pine needles etc.) and it's unclear whether the perp had anything to do with that. Maybe he dragged her in the dirt, maybe she just fell down, she doesn't remember. Second, there's all the probing at the hospital which revealed no DNA or fluids so it's hard to see it as the inevitable aftermath of the guy's actions.

    Nerdy details!

  81. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Part of the issue here is that liberal journalists project their experiences to the rest of the country. Liberal journalists are generally SWPL types who either don't go to colleges with strong athletic programs and lots of black athletes, or don't travel in the same social circles as black students. If they are friends with blacks or associate with them, they're generally nerdy or SWPL type blacks, not ordinary blacks or black athletes. They generally don't hang out with black athletes or go to the same parties. So when they say that "this is what campus predators look like", part of what they mean is that they generally aren't in a position to be affected by black predators on campus, who commit most of the rapes overall, because they generally avoid blacks in the first place.

    Replies: @anon, @Tropic of Cancer

    They know exactly what they’re doing.

    They lie to maintain the anti-white narrative.

    It’s not just this – the pattern repeats over and over – the filthy media lie to maintain their anti-white narrative and they’ve been doing it for 50+ years.

    They’re utter scum – every one who works for the media is scum.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @anon

    They're not mutually exclusive.

    Most women who are victimized by black rapists on campus are women who associate with blacks. Liberal and SWPL type women generally don't associate with blacks on places like college campuses and when they are victimized it tends to be white rapists.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @anon

  82. @Dave Pinsen
    @guest

    I've never blacked out, but I have a friend who did. I watched him fall down a flight of stairs after we went out drinking once. I mentioned it the next day and he had no memory of falling.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    I can say from personal experience that it’s possible.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @reiner Tor

    Yet - I was drinking heavily and the next thing I remembered was being in the hospital? It's hard to believe.

  83. @reiner Tor
    @Dave Pinsen

    I can say from personal experience that it's possible.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Yet – I was drinking heavily and the next thing I remembered was being in the hospital? It’s hard to believe.

  84. @S. Anonyia
    @SPMoore8

    While I don't doubt that the dude is guilty......

    I'm also suspicious of anyone who claims to have "totally lost their memory" while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious. There is no way that someone would have absolutely no recollection of the HOURS spent at a party before they passed out.

    I think many "blackouts" are probably psychological. It's telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.

    Replies: @guest, @MEH 0910, @ben tillman, @dumpstersquirrel

    It’s telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.

    People vary.

  85. @Dave Pinsen
    @Marty

    I didn't read all the details of the case, but I read part of the girl's letter to the defendant. She remembers nothing of the incident, having blacked out. Is it possible she consented and forgot? I guess him leaving her behind a dumpster suggests no.

    Replies: @5371

    Didn’t he run away when surprised? If he had had the balls to stick around, nothing might have happened to him.

  86. Josh says:
    @Marty
    I didn't bother reading the article or the comments thereto above, but the privilege came in the sentencing. The weird part is the judge would appear to be Jewish, Aaron Persky. And by the way, it's pathetic that a guy with Turner's looks would have to force himself on anyone.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Josh, @Tony

    He was a freshman. My guess is that they were really drunk. Started grinding on the dance floor anonymously. Started making out. Went somewhere private (he’s a freshman so he doesn’t have a room at the frat house). This was probably all with very little to zero talking.

    If I were trying to argue on his defense, I would make a big deal about this next point. He fingers her. Is this something a rapist does to an unconscious girl? I’m guessing she was givong some kind of indication that he took for her enjoying it.

    At some point she probably passed out or was at least very close to it. Then the swedes arrive and he runs away. He clearly feels as though he has been caught, so there is an indication of a guilty drunken mind.

    im not sure this kid is a predator. Drunken hookup culture is just going to lead to things like this. Perhaps if it was made clear that normal women don’t want to get drunk and have one night stands rather than it being a common sitcom plot. Perhaps men should be encouraged to be chivalrous or of the reputation for being a cad was actually considered a bad thing. What if, gasp, we returned to an era of chaperoned interactions between teenage single mean and women. This disgusting situation is pretty close to what passes for courtship among college kids. Feminism ia part of the cause and is the only socially acceptable “solution” to this.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Josh

    In any sexual contact, the guy is the one who will always initiate the thing, he'll make the next step, so at one point - if given sufficient indication that the woman is in on it - he'll eventually touch her genitalia etc.

    This means that if two extremely drunk people get into sexual contact and the woman regrets it, then she can always cry rape and the guy will be sentenced on extremely thin evidence.

    Replies: @josh

    , @AndrewR
    @Josh

    Victim blaming!!!!!1111oneoneeleventyone

    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Josh

    Do you know if she became unconscious somewhere else and he dragged her limp to behind the dumpster without anyone seeing, or did she go with him to behind the dumpster and then became uncoscious there? If she did go to behind the dumpster with him voluntarily, we have to wonder what her purpose was.

    Replies: @Josh

  87. @Josh
    @Marty

    He was a freshman. My guess is that they were really drunk. Started grinding on the dance floor anonymously. Started making out. Went somewhere private (he's a freshman so he doesn't have a room at the frat house). This was probably all with very little to zero talking.

    If I were trying to argue on his defense, I would make a big deal about this next point. He fingers her. Is this something a rapist does to an unconscious girl? I'm guessing she was givong some kind of indication that he took for her enjoying it.

    At some point she probably passed out or was at least very close to it. Then the swedes arrive and he runs away. He clearly feels as though he has been caught, so there is an indication of a guilty drunken mind.

    im not sure this kid is a predator. Drunken hookup culture is just going to lead to things like this. Perhaps if it was made clear that normal women don't want to get drunk and have one night stands rather than it being a common sitcom plot. Perhaps men should be encouraged to be chivalrous or of the reputation for being a cad was actually considered a bad thing. What if, gasp, we returned to an era of chaperoned interactions between teenage single mean and women. This disgusting situation is pretty close to what passes for courtship among college kids. Feminism ia part of the cause and is the only socially acceptable "solution" to this.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @AndrewR, @Hippopotamusdrome

    In any sexual contact, the guy is the one who will always initiate the thing, he’ll make the next step, so at one point – if given sufficient indication that the woman is in on it – he’ll eventually touch her genitalia etc.

    This means that if two extremely drunk people get into sexual contact and the woman regrets it, then she can always cry rape and the guy will be sentenced on extremely thin evidence.

    • Replies: @josh
    @reiner Tor

    I think the fact that she is older and the kid was a freshman enters into it. She is clearly humiliated and knows she would not have consented unless very, very drunk.

    The problem really is that we have only one kind of sexual immorality. This is the logical end of our embrace of liberalism's idea of the Good as determined by the individual will (a la Justice Kennedy). Acts that cry out to heaven for vengeance must be reinterpreted in terms of preference utilitarianism often becoming incoherent in the process.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  88. Since hate crimes are meant to scare a whole group of people, aren’t faked hate crimes just as bad since they do the same thing anyway? Isn’t constantly blowing rape statistics completely out of proportion similarly bad since it unnecessarily scares the hell out of so many young women and poisons healthy relationships between the sexes? Both of these also help to demonize innocent white men, but maybe these SJWs are so happy about that fact that they don’t care how many women( or blacks or gays) are hurt. Anyway, I still believe that progressives only care about rape when the suspect is a white man, preferably wealthy, accomplished, and attractive. Just look at how they ignore rape in the third world (and in the third world sections of first world nations.)

    • Replies: @anon
    @Calogero


    Isn’t constantly blowing rape statistics completely out of proportion similarly bad since it unnecessarily scares the hell out of so many young women and poisons healthy relationships between the sexes?
     
    That's the purpose of feminism.

    It's like anti-racism - poison is its purpose.
  89. josh says:
    @reiner Tor
    @Josh

    In any sexual contact, the guy is the one who will always initiate the thing, he'll make the next step, so at one point - if given sufficient indication that the woman is in on it - he'll eventually touch her genitalia etc.

    This means that if two extremely drunk people get into sexual contact and the woman regrets it, then she can always cry rape and the guy will be sentenced on extremely thin evidence.

    Replies: @josh

    I think the fact that she is older and the kid was a freshman enters into it. She is clearly humiliated and knows she would not have consented unless very, very drunk.

    The problem really is that we have only one kind of sexual immorality. This is the logical end of our embrace of liberalism’s idea of the Good as determined by the individual will (a la Justice Kennedy). Acts that cry out to heaven for vengeance must be reinterpreted in terms of preference utilitarianism often becoming incoherent in the process.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @josh

    Good point. She was 23; he was 18 at most. The age difference is 5 years which is a Long Time at that age. She probably (rightly) feels like an idiot because she got so drunk that she got fingered behind a dumpster by a guy 5 years younger and then passed out. Hence, the 12k word screed absolving herself of any responsibility (c'mon man! the Two Towers?) and converting her stupidity into Victim Hood.

    I missed the part (tl;dr) about how they knew it was him.

  90. The recent murder of a female student at the University of Texas was in the headlines for days — until the police identified her killer, a young black homeless man.

    Then, as it so often does when the narrative isn’t supported, the story just disappeared.

  91. @SPMoore8
    I tried to explain to a friend tonight that people bring their preconceptions to these internet stories and they are often false, but the preconception determines their first (and sometimes final) tack on the subject.

    I explained that when Harambe the gorilla was shot apparently most people assumed the kid was white, which is why there are youtube videos of black talk DJ's excoriating the mother and the zoo for killing the gorilla. Also SJW types, and also me. But, when it turned out that the kid was black, all of a sudden the gorilla was "just an animal" and also that "it could have happened to anyone." (Except for me, I still am unhappy with the the shooting and the mother.)

    In this case, people see (a) white kid, (b) sexual assault (which automatically becomes "rape"), and (c) assumes penetration. So everyone assumes that this was an imagined entitled white kid Haven Monahaning some freshman who only wanted directions to the library.

    In fact, there is no evidence of penetration, which is why the rape charges were dropped, both of them were drunk, the woman exceedingly so, there is no clear evidence when or for how long she lost consciousness, she claims no memory of the campus party until the following morning when she sobered up in the hospital, but nevertheless wrote a 12,000 word victim impact statement about how her life had been ruined, and even how her attacker's life was ruined, culminating in a quite inappropriate comparison of herself and the perp with the Twin Towers on 9/11. (Color me suspicious about her memory loss; I know people who have drunk to blackout status, they don't forget an entire evening.)

    On the other hand, the young man insists that they met at the party, where the 23 y.o. plaintiff attended with her "baby sister" and who danced, flirted, made out and engaged in other consensual behavior with him, before leaving with him and falling down behind the dumpster where they engaged in further sexual behavior.

    I will be quite honest and say I don't know what actually happened, I know the young guy tried to run when two Swedes came by on their bicycles at 1 AM. But OTOH there clearly was a sexual assault because her level of intoxication (at least 3x BAC) would have made it impossible for her to consent. Therefore I have no problem with the final resolution in this case.

    But the problem is that most people freaking out about this case simply assume that it was penetrative rape in the usual way; they simply don't know the facts, and they make up their minds on the initial idea, and try as you might they will not budge; counter-intuitively indeed many of the people condemning him now want him to go to prison so he can be raped there; which of course is quite bizarre but there's a heart of darkness in a lot of SJW types.

    Replies: @Vinay, @S. Anonyia, @Simonini, @ben tillman

    I think part of the problem here is the people judging campus sexual assaults are too responsible to have a good understanding of how extreme drunkenness works.

    I drank to the point of “blacking out” a few times in my college days. On one of those occasions, my memories stopped around 8:30PM but I was conscious and functioning until after midnight. My friends had no idea I blacked out, other than being more cheerful and social than usual I was acting completely normal. A little after midnight, I started intermittently vomiting until the morning and had to crawl around on the floor because I couldn’t walk without falling over. My memory returned sometime during the vomiting.

    Being “blackout” drunk is not something you can tell by looking at a person. Considering the perpetrator here was over 2x the legal limit BAC himself, I think it is crazy to declare she by definition couldn’t consent because she was at 3x.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Simonini

    Again, I know people who have had blackouts, however, they were heavy drinkers. Sometimes I was surprised at when the blackout began (according to them). In this case I find it hard to believe that a woman would go to a party and have no memory of the party or interacting with the guy who assaulted her: that was my main point, there. However, someone else says that she had 4 shots and champagne before even going to the party. That's a different scenario.

    As for consent, I don't really know what the rule is, although I know it is different state by state. However, I have just assumed that a woman who was that drunk couldn't give consent. But I might be wrong about that, in legal terms.

    I'm not out to destroy this kid but sexual assault seems to be very much on the table: she was unresponsive and presumably unconscious when the Swedish bicyclers arrived, and the kid was diddling her, at a minimum. He should have known better. And his own drunkenness should not be a shield for his poor judgment. The alternative is allowing drunken men to have sex with drunken passed out women at parties. That's gross, and that is why it has to be described as a sexual assault, and punished.

    Replies: @TangoMan, @reiner Tor

  92. @PiltdownMan
    @S. anonyia

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/07/the-swedish-stanford-students-who-rescued-an-unconscious-sexual-assault-victim-speak-out/

    Two gentlemen.

    The young punk should have been thrown in the cooler for a couple of years to repent his unmanly behavior. Pine needles? Sheez.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Yngvar, @Marcus

    The two Swedes could’ve been contenders to the Sung Hero award, but then there’s this:

    “When the policeman arrived and interviewed the evil Swede who tackled you, he was crying so hard he couldn’t speak because of what he’d seen.”

    Sad.

  93. A dear friend of mine works at a facility that helps women victims of domestic violence. She has been trained in handling rape cases. She is a professional.

    Her first response to this story was’ “No, that is not the face (profile) of the typical rapist. By far and away, most “rape” is committed by persons who are known to the victim. Rape by casual acquaintances account for only 2-3% of all rape.”

    Ah, but the article cleverly calls his not the face of a “typical rapist” but what a “campus sexual predator” looks like and that’s a horse of a different color. “Campus sexual predator” is a subset of “rapist”.

    In the first place, since a majority of males on college campuses are white, then it would not come as a surprise that the face of a typical “campus sexual predator” would be white (if white and black males perpetrated rape at the same rate, which is doubtful). This is just simple proportions.

    Secondly, if rape by casual acquaintance accounts for only 2-3% of all rape annually, and if this case is representative as the authors of the article assert, then how can we square this claim with the one made further on in the article that 1 of 4 women in college experience rape? For such a claim to be true, then women would have to attend college for an average of 10 years! This is (assuming that college women are raped at the same rate as women in the population in general) clearly nonsense.

    • Replies: @EH
    @Threecranes

    "a majority of males on college campuses are white"

    Really? White, "white", or (((white)))? Ron Unz gave some evidence the whites on campus are largely (((whites))). Het WASP cis-males are are one of the smallest minorities on campus these days, and by far the most underrepresented.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Jefferson

  94. @Hunsdon
    @Jack D

    Trolling.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    And I hope she’s getting paid!

  95. I would like to make two comments about this case apart from the rape angle and both relate to college swimmers.

    1. How is it that this young man/boy is being held up as an example of privilege?

    2. Why was she interested in him to begin with?

    Answer to 1. College swimmers are likely the hardest working athletes in all athletics. They practice twice a day. Morning practice begins in the wee hours before breakfast. Afternoon practice is typical of all athletics. They may swim 10-15 miles a day. They work very hard! That’s why American swimmers have dominated the World’s and Olympics for the last 100 years! There is no group of harder working, clean-living athletes in the world, and that’s a fact. They work harder than any slave ever had to and are as far from privileged as can be imagined. Between practice and studying, their lives are almost monk like. Part of the glee of those pushing this narrative no doubt results from their bringing down a person who represents these elites–what they are and what their detractors could never be.

    Answer to 2. Anybody here ever seen a scholarship swimmer up close? They’re 6’4″ tall, shoulders two axe handles wide, narrow at the hip, lean and smooth as a dolphin. Remember sales of the Olympic water polo team poster a few years ago? Sold out in one hour, 100,000 copies, women ate it up. We’re talking about really good looking, studly men here. For a 23 year old single woman, such a man, a Stanford swimmer, would be an amazing catch–brains and brawn. The moment she was introduced to him she set her sights on him–who knows, she thinks to herself, he might even fall for her. The rest is typical of young romance. There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Threecranes


    They may swim 10-15 miles a day.
     
    Maybe kilometers. 10K per day is typical. Don't call it "work" either, they like to swim. And workouts include frequent rest.

    Work is doing something you don't like.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  96. I would like to make two comments about this case apart from the rape angle and both relate to college swimmers.

    1. How is it that this young man/boy is being held up as an example of privilege?

    2. Why was she interested in him to begin with?

    Answer to 1. College swimmers are likely the hardest working athletes in all athletics. They practice twice a day. Morning practice begins in the wee hours before breakfast. Afternoon practice is typical of all athletics. They may swim 10-15 miles a day. They work very hard! That’s why American swimmers have dominated the World’s and Olympics for the last 100 years! There is no group of harder working, clean-living athletes in the world, and that’s a fact. They work harder than any slave ever had to and are as far from privileged as can be imagined. Between practice and studying, their lives are almost monk like. Part of the glee of those pushing this narrative no doubt results from their bringing down a person who represents these elite Ideals–what they are and what their detractors could never be.

    Answer to 2. Anybody here ever seen a scholarship swimmer up close? They’re 6’4″ tall, shoulders two axe handles wide, narrow at the hip, lean and smooth as a dolphin. Remember sales of the Olympic water polo team poster a few years ago? Sold out in one hour, 100,000 copies, women ate it up. We’re talking about really good looking, studly men here. For a 23 year old single woman, such a man, a Stanford swimmer, would be an amazing catch–brains and brawn. The moment she was introduced to him she set her sights on him–who knows, she thinks to herself, he might even fall for her. The rest is typical of young romance. There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Threecranes

    "There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark."

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That's a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    Here is the lesson lost on people--teach your son and daughter not to put themselves in this position of being drunk and losing their ability to make rational decisions, lest they fairly or unfairly receive consequences.

    Drink? Fine.
    Try to get some tail? Great.
    Drink until a guy and girl are drunk and have lost the ability to reason? All bets are off. Expect to get drilled literally and legally. No sympathy here.

    He put himself in this position. He got off light--six months in jail. Registered sex offender? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk and try to go all Roissy.

    She put herself in this position. She got off light--she's not dead. Psychological problems? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk, black out, and find yourself behind a dumpster.

    Choices were made here.

    Replies: @Threecranes, @Anonymous

  97. @Anonymous
    @reiner Tor

    The victims letter makes it sound like the violations she suffered were mainly in the hospital, her vagina being photographed and poked for hours by nurses gathering evidence before letting her shower. If no one told her she had been raped, she might not have had to suffer.

    Replies: @Vinay

    “The victims letter makes it sound like the violations she suffered were mainly in the hospital,”

    Bingo! First, a disclaimer: I have no problem whatsoever with the verdict, the guy really should have known better. With that out of the way, yes, the victim’s impact statement, though emotionally powerful, is striking how most of her suffering is difficult to tie to the perp’s actions.

    First, there was the effect of lying in the dirt (pine needles etc.) and it’s unclear whether the perp had anything to do with that. Maybe he dragged her in the dirt, maybe she just fell down, she doesn’t remember. Second, there’s all the probing at the hospital which revealed no DNA or fluids so it’s hard to see it as the inevitable aftermath of the guy’s actions.

    Nerdy details!

  98. @Jack D
    @Tiny Duck

    Still trying to figure out if Tiny Dick really means this stuff or is just trolling us.

    It's funny that Hillary never tried to stop (actually enabled) the destructive path of rape and evil cut by the white man who (nominally at least) shares her bed.

    Rape is and always has been a state level crime that the Federal guvment has little to do with, either way , so it's not clear to me the mechanism by which Trump would promote rape or Hillary would stop rape (but only by creepy white men - you wouldn't want to imprison any non-whites). Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Hunsdon, @Jefferson, @ic1000

    Mr. Duck is a right-wing kinda guy. A progressive who comments at iSteve won’t write easily-mocked diatribes about the ideals dearest to his heart. Deluded not stupid — it just doesn’t fit.

  99. @Jefferson
    @Jack D

    "Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial".

    Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male? The mainstream media certainly does not treat him like he is one.

    Replies: @Njguy73, @Jim Don Bob, @Connecticut Famer

    Jefferson said, “Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male”?

    No. Toni Morrison said he was the first black president. She is a Noble prize winner and you are not, so there!

  100. CNN is running this story front and center under the banner headline “SHOW VICTIM’S LETTER TO YOUR SONS”.

    Just who is the victim here? An eighteen year old kid whose life is being sacrificed on the left’s altar of resentment. The left doesn’t care that they are ruining the life a relatively, innocent young man whose life is from this day forward tainted with the label of “sexual predator”–and all for behavior between two very drunk young persons which is probably more the norm than the exception. Who of us hasn’t been to a kegger, imbibed too much and ended up rolling in the grass with someone whom we didn’t know and whom we may never meet again? To take this so far as to smear his face across the front page for all America to see is so cruel and unnecessary that it just shows that the left is capable of any and every sort of outrage and violation of human justice and dignity. These are seriously, sadistically bent people. I am appalled.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @Threecranes

    I am seriously appalled at his judgement.

    Have you seen her photo?

    I think he should be in an institution.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  101. @Tacitus2016
    I saw that guy being chased the other day.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3625441/Black-Muslim-chases-white-Trump-supporter-tackles-ground-San-Jose-rally.html

    "Chasing down the last .... ...." It's a sport.

    You're gonna need a bigger revolution!

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Anti-Trump folks being violent thugs and cops being useless. How many times must we see this play out before we get groups of young, healthy, strong men to protect Trump supporters? This entire thing is a microcosm of our civilizational decline. If this were a healthy country, no sane person would dare to so much as glare at a Trump supporter.

    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond
    @AndrewR


    If this were a healthy country, no sane person would dare to so much as glare at a Trump supporter.
     
    Not much a fascist, are you?

    Replies: @Wanderer, @anon

  102. @Josh
    @Marty

    He was a freshman. My guess is that they were really drunk. Started grinding on the dance floor anonymously. Started making out. Went somewhere private (he's a freshman so he doesn't have a room at the frat house). This was probably all with very little to zero talking.

    If I were trying to argue on his defense, I would make a big deal about this next point. He fingers her. Is this something a rapist does to an unconscious girl? I'm guessing she was givong some kind of indication that he took for her enjoying it.

    At some point she probably passed out or was at least very close to it. Then the swedes arrive and he runs away. He clearly feels as though he has been caught, so there is an indication of a guilty drunken mind.

    im not sure this kid is a predator. Drunken hookup culture is just going to lead to things like this. Perhaps if it was made clear that normal women don't want to get drunk and have one night stands rather than it being a common sitcom plot. Perhaps men should be encouraged to be chivalrous or of the reputation for being a cad was actually considered a bad thing. What if, gasp, we returned to an era of chaperoned interactions between teenage single mean and women. This disgusting situation is pretty close to what passes for courtship among college kids. Feminism ia part of the cause and is the only socially acceptable "solution" to this.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @AndrewR, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Victim blaming!!!!!1111oneoneeleventyone

  103. @PiltdownMan
    @S. anonyia

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/07/the-swedish-stanford-students-who-rescued-an-unconscious-sexual-assault-victim-speak-out/

    Two gentlemen.

    The young punk should have been thrown in the cooler for a couple of years to repent his unmanly behavior. Pine needles? Sheez.

    Replies: @Twinkie, @Yngvar, @Marcus

    Jonsson doesn’t look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Marcus


    Jonsson doesn’t look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?
     


    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the "Black Irish" they do exist. It's more common to find that type in Norway though. There's some speculation that this has something to do with an influx of Walloons in the 17th century into Scandinavia. And Swedes do tan quite dark, unlike, say, the gingers of Scotland.

    There are, of course, contemporary admixtures but Jonsson does not appear to be one of those.

    Replies: @Marcus, @Jefferson, @snorlax

  104. @S. Anonyia
    @SPMoore8

    While I don't doubt that the dude is guilty......

    I'm also suspicious of anyone who claims to have "totally lost their memory" while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious. There is no way that someone would have absolutely no recollection of the HOURS spent at a party before they passed out.

    I think many "blackouts" are probably psychological. It's telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.

    Replies: @guest, @MEH 0910, @ben tillman, @dumpstersquirrel

    I’m also suspicious of anyone who claims to have “totally lost their memory” while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious.

    Not necessarily.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @ben tillman

    I agree with you. I know people who black out. It comes from drinking heavily, especially habitually. And, when they are in blackout mode, they may even seem rational, lucid (albeit drunk), and capable of consent for a brief period. You will be surprised later at how much they have forgotten, and I think that forgetfulness is sincere. But they don't forget an entire evening. They just lose track of things at some point in their drinking.

  105. My senior citizen mother was less selectively outraged about this atrocious act of judicial malfeasance after I explained to her why she was selectively outraged.

  106. @SPMoore8
    I tried to explain to a friend tonight that people bring their preconceptions to these internet stories and they are often false, but the preconception determines their first (and sometimes final) tack on the subject.

    I explained that when Harambe the gorilla was shot apparently most people assumed the kid was white, which is why there are youtube videos of black talk DJ's excoriating the mother and the zoo for killing the gorilla. Also SJW types, and also me. But, when it turned out that the kid was black, all of a sudden the gorilla was "just an animal" and also that "it could have happened to anyone." (Except for me, I still am unhappy with the the shooting and the mother.)

    In this case, people see (a) white kid, (b) sexual assault (which automatically becomes "rape"), and (c) assumes penetration. So everyone assumes that this was an imagined entitled white kid Haven Monahaning some freshman who only wanted directions to the library.

    In fact, there is no evidence of penetration, which is why the rape charges were dropped, both of them were drunk, the woman exceedingly so, there is no clear evidence when or for how long she lost consciousness, she claims no memory of the campus party until the following morning when she sobered up in the hospital, but nevertheless wrote a 12,000 word victim impact statement about how her life had been ruined, and even how her attacker's life was ruined, culminating in a quite inappropriate comparison of herself and the perp with the Twin Towers on 9/11. (Color me suspicious about her memory loss; I know people who have drunk to blackout status, they don't forget an entire evening.)

    On the other hand, the young man insists that they met at the party, where the 23 y.o. plaintiff attended with her "baby sister" and who danced, flirted, made out and engaged in other consensual behavior with him, before leaving with him and falling down behind the dumpster where they engaged in further sexual behavior.

    I will be quite honest and say I don't know what actually happened, I know the young guy tried to run when two Swedes came by on their bicycles at 1 AM. But OTOH there clearly was a sexual assault because her level of intoxication (at least 3x BAC) would have made it impossible for her to consent. Therefore I have no problem with the final resolution in this case.

    But the problem is that most people freaking out about this case simply assume that it was penetrative rape in the usual way; they simply don't know the facts, and they make up their minds on the initial idea, and try as you might they will not budge; counter-intuitively indeed many of the people condemning him now want him to go to prison so he can be raped there; which of course is quite bizarre but there's a heart of darkness in a lot of SJW types.

    Replies: @Vinay, @S. Anonyia, @Simonini, @ben tillman

    I will be quite honest and say I don’t know what actually happened, I know the young guy tried to run when two Swedes came by on their bicycles at 1 AM. But OTOH there clearly was a sexual assault because her level of intoxication (at least 3x BAC) would have made it impossible for her to consent.

    That is not an accurate statement of the law in most US jurisdictions.

    • Agree: Spmoore8
  107. @ben tillman
    @S. Anonyia


    I’m also suspicious of anyone who claims to have “totally lost their memory” while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious.
     
    Not necessarily.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    I agree with you. I know people who black out. It comes from drinking heavily, especially habitually. And, when they are in blackout mode, they may even seem rational, lucid (albeit drunk), and capable of consent for a brief period. You will be surprised later at how much they have forgotten, and I think that forgetfulness is sincere. But they don’t forget an entire evening. They just lose track of things at some point in their drinking.

  108. @guest
    @S. Anonyia

    I've never blacked out, despite occasionally drinking to the point of wishing death upon myself. Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost.

    I am mystified as to how blacking out works for other people. I imagine a lot of them lie. Many more are psychologically coping.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dave Pinsen, @Kylie, @Rapparee

    “Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost.”

    Same here. I was often the only female in a mixed race group of hard drinkers. A male friend described my behavior in that circumstance as “fun and flirty”. But I had good head for liquor and didn’t get what my husband calls “stupid drunk”. The guys admired my ability to keep up with or surpass them. They ALWAYS treated me respectfully. But gals who couldn’t hold their liquor did not fare so well in that college town. Outside of the Olympics, amateurs get no respect.

    Speaking of which, I respected this victim more at first because I thought the swimmer found her passed out and took advantage. I didn’t realize she’d hooked up with him at the party. Stupid drunk–both of them.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Kylie

    Thanks for the distaff perspective. I agree.

  109. @anon
    @Anonymous

    They know exactly what they're doing.

    They lie to maintain the anti-white narrative.

    It's not just this - the pattern repeats over and over - the filthy media lie to maintain their anti-white narrative and they've been doing it for 50+ years.

    They're utter scum - every one who works for the media is scum.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They’re not mutually exclusive.

    Most women who are victimized by black rapists on campus are women who associate with blacks. Liberal and SWPL type women generally don’t associate with blacks on places like college campuses and when they are victimized it tends to be white rapists.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @Anonymous

    "They’re not mutually exclusive.

    Most women who are victimized by black rapists on campus are women who associate with blacks. Liberal and SWPL type women generally don’t associate with blacks on places like college campuses and when they are victimized it tends to be white rapists."

    But according to a lot of loser virgin Cucks on The Unz and Stormfront, they can't get a White girlfriend because all of the White women prefer to date Black men. THEY HAVE TAKEN ALL OF OUR WOMEN, they say.

    , @anon
    @Anonymous

    She may well have had a secluded experience at college away from the sport scholarship dudes (is this guy one of those?) but I'm talking about her as a journalist not an SJW.

    "Not knowing" is not a valid argument for the media as they deliberately bury cases that don't fit their relentlessly anti-white narrative while pushing things that do - which this is just another example of.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  110. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Lost in this commentary is that the girls’ mother drove them to the party (according to this article: http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2016/03/18/alleged-victim-testifies-in-brock-turner-trial).

    The daughter who was assaulted had four shots and a glass of champagne (can’t find the article, but it was a significant amount regardless) at home. What sort of parent drives drunk daughters to a party?

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @anon

    Due to a lack of disposable income and the price of cocktails, youngsters "pregame" booze quite a bit these days.

    Replies: @guest

  111. @kihowi
    @Jack D

    You know how it's always the most repulsive specimens can't stop talking about how all men want to rape them?

    It's called bragging.

    Replies: @S. anonyia, @Marcus

    Andrea the Hutt herself claimed to have been raped IIRC

  112. @Simonini
    @SPMoore8

    I think part of the problem here is the people judging campus sexual assaults are too responsible to have a good understanding of how extreme drunkenness works.

    I drank to the point of "blacking out" a few times in my college days. On one of those occasions, my memories stopped around 8:30PM but I was conscious and functioning until after midnight. My friends had no idea I blacked out, other than being more cheerful and social than usual I was acting completely normal. A little after midnight, I started intermittently vomiting until the morning and had to crawl around on the floor because I couldn't walk without falling over. My memory returned sometime during the vomiting.

    Being "blackout" drunk is not something you can tell by looking at a person. Considering the perpetrator here was over 2x the legal limit BAC himself, I think it is crazy to declare she by definition couldn't consent because she was at 3x.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    Again, I know people who have had blackouts, however, they were heavy drinkers. Sometimes I was surprised at when the blackout began (according to them). In this case I find it hard to believe that a woman would go to a party and have no memory of the party or interacting with the guy who assaulted her: that was my main point, there. However, someone else says that she had 4 shots and champagne before even going to the party. That’s a different scenario.

    As for consent, I don’t really know what the rule is, although I know it is different state by state. However, I have just assumed that a woman who was that drunk couldn’t give consent. But I might be wrong about that, in legal terms.

    I’m not out to destroy this kid but sexual assault seems to be very much on the table: she was unresponsive and presumably unconscious when the Swedish bicyclers arrived, and the kid was diddling her, at a minimum. He should have known better. And his own drunkenness should not be a shield for his poor judgment. The alternative is allowing drunken men to have sex with drunken passed out women at parties. That’s gross, and that is why it has to be described as a sexual assault, and punished.

    • Replies: @TangoMan
    @SPMoore8

    However, I have just assumed that a woman who was that drunk couldn’t give consent.

    He should have known better. And his own drunkenness should not be a shield for his poor judgment.

    Why the double standard? A drunk woman is not held responsible for her actions but a drunk man is held responsible for his actions.

    I favor one standard - either we're not responsible for our actions when drunk or we are. If we are, then consent given while intoxicated is valid consent.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    , @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8


    However, someone else says that she had 4 shots and champagne before even going to the party. That’s a different scenario.
     
    That's not totally impossible then that she doesn't remember the party at all. But not very likely either, and because she has some reason to feel embarrassed about and so deny any memory of the party, I'm still having my doubts. But yeah, it's possible then.

    Of course, blacking out only means she wouldn't have memories the next day. It doesn't mean her behavior is any different from most other drunk people. Many heavy drinkers (and the woman seems to say that she used to be one at college) often merely appear tipsy, or not even that, and yet they remember nothing.

    Having blacked out doesn't mean the guy had to know that. He was drunk himself, after all. If he flirted with her and she was responsive and then went out to a dark area (presumably to have sex) and she blacked out during foreplay while he started fingering her, and then at that moment the Swedes arrived, that's not at all clear there was even a crime.
  113. @Jefferson
    @Jack D

    "Maybe we could figure out the kind of rapes that white men tend to commit and increase the penalty for those, the way crack was treated more harshly than powdered cocaine in the old days when white men ran things. Maybe she could set an example by having her husband tried for his rapes. They could get DC to repeal its statute of limitations and put Bill on trial".

    Does Bill Clinton even count as a White male? The mainstream media certainly does not treat him like he is one.

    Replies: @Njguy73, @Jim Don Bob, @Connecticut Famer

    As is well documented, back in the early 80s the Rodham woman got an acquittal on behalf of an accused rapist. Wonder if that served as a green light for the husband of record.

  114. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Remember, she had a boy friend to whom she would have had to sheepishly explain why she woke up in the hospital after having had drunken sex with a stranger at a fraternity party to which she didn’t bother to invite her boyfriend.

    The wiles of women. What better out than to claim that she was the innocent victim of an involuntary sex act? Didn’t some gal already use this one within the last year or two?

  115. Thea says:
    @anonymous
    She's lying of course. What's really going on here is that at a subliminal level there's a repository of rage, frustration and jealousy that she's venting at this smug, smiling preppie type. She knows that in real life she'd never be a keeper for any well-situated guys. Life has cheated her out of what she really deserves which is to be hailed as some sort of queen. She and others like her have all gone to see 50 Shades where some handsome billionaire, no less, digs up on some nobody woman working retail. This is their entitlement and when it isn't going to happen emotional cripples like her lash out in bitterness, sublimating it by hiding behind political rhetoric. Commenter Whisky is on to something regarding this sort of thing and should give us his diagnosis.

    Replies: @Thea

    I really agree.

    A lot of false rape allegations result from a failure to stick the landing so to speak. Girl puts out for guy way out of her league, he never calls again cause he can do better, girl feels used( to be fair, she was.) sometimes this feeling turns to malice. Campus feminists get involved, hijinks ensue…

    • Replies: @Mark2
    @Thea

    This is pretty much the entirety of the campus rape "crisis" in a nutshell. The WN in me wants to qualify that by adding in marauding black athletes, but honestly it's probably the same deal there as well.

  116. He’s guilt as charged, but he’s not guilty (or at least not proved guilty) of what the media are accusing him of, i.e. rape. What he’s guilty of is continuing to have sex (ish) with someone who had consented after she passed out.

    But because we all know he’s really guilty of rape we can opine about how a black man found guilty of rape would get a longer sentence (which is actually true, since Brock Turner was not found guilty of rape). Apparently, what the judge should have done is sentence him for the crime we know he committed rather than the one he was convicted of. No doubt if America gets some more Latino judges on the bench then this will be a reality.

    Incidentally, Brock Turner is an astoundingly white name. At what point will concerned parents start giving their kids less white names to keep them safe from SJW moral panics? Calling your child Brock Turner in modern America is kind of like calling your kid Kikey Hymiestein in Jordan.

  117. @TipTipTopKek
    Funny, from a column here at this blog I distinctly remember that more than half of college rapists were Affirmative-Action-Americans. Did they not get that memo at WaPo?

    Does Dvorak (((echo))) or is she just Shabbos? "Dvorak" is a Czech/Galician surname and is in a few LOLocaust databases but IDK if that is her maiden name or married name, and if it's her married name, I don't know her maidan, oops, maiden name, or as they say in Texas, "who she is from home."

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Olorin

    “Does Dvorak (((echo))) or is she just Shabbos? “Dvorak” is a Czech/Galician surname and is in a few LOLocaust databases”

    Why are you having a hard time trying to tell if she is a Jew or a Shiksa? According to most people on The Unz Jews are People Of Color, so there should be zero phenotype overlap between Jews and Whites. It should be 100 percent impossible to ever mistake one for the other.

  118. @Threecranes
    I would like to make two comments about this case apart from the rape angle and both relate to college swimmers.

    1. How is it that this young man/boy is being held up as an example of privilege?

    2. Why was she interested in him to begin with?

    Answer to 1. College swimmers are likely the hardest working athletes in all athletics. They practice twice a day. Morning practice begins in the wee hours before breakfast. Afternoon practice is typical of all athletics. They may swim 10-15 miles a day. They work very hard! That's why American swimmers have dominated the World's and Olympics for the last 100 years! There is no group of harder working, clean-living athletes in the world, and that's a fact. They work harder than any slave ever had to and are as far from privileged as can be imagined. Between practice and studying, their lives are almost monk like. Part of the glee of those pushing this narrative no doubt results from their bringing down a person who represents these elite Ideals--what they are and what their detractors could never be.

    Answer to 2. Anybody here ever seen a scholarship swimmer up close? They're 6'4" tall, shoulders two axe handles wide, narrow at the hip, lean and smooth as a dolphin. Remember sales of the Olympic water polo team poster a few years ago? Sold out in one hour, 100,000 copies, women ate it up. We're talking about really good looking, studly men here. For a 23 year old single woman, such a man, a Stanford swimmer, would be an amazing catch--brains and brawn. The moment she was introduced to him she set her sights on him--who knows, she thinks to herself, he might even fall for her. The rest is typical of young romance. There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark.”

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That’s a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    Here is the lesson lost on people–teach your son and daughter not to put themselves in this position of being drunk and losing their ability to make rational decisions, lest they fairly or unfairly receive consequences.

    Drink? Fine.
    Try to get some tail? Great.
    Drink until a guy and girl are drunk and have lost the ability to reason? All bets are off. Expect to get drilled literally and legally. No sympathy here.

    He put himself in this position. He got off light–six months in jail. Registered sex offender? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk and try to go all Roissy.

    She put herself in this position. She got off light–she’s not dead. Psychological problems? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk, black out, and find yourself behind a dumpster.

    Choices were made here.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @Threecranes
    @Corvinus

    For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss. He then, thinking that he'd earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her--remember, there was no penetration--at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing.

    As I said in another post, which Steve hasn't let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, "How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?"

    Hey, at that point claiming that you had nothing to do with it, that it was all done to you, looks like a pretty good option.

    Don't underestimate women as adversaries. They're infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D

    , @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That’s a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    She was unconscious while he was fingering her? According to whom? How dark was it? How far away? Did they have w clear sight line? Wasn't he also described as humping her?

    Do we know she was not conscious when he first fingered her? Was he aware she was later unconscious?

    There's enough reasonable doubt here that his attorneys should have won this case for him and gotten a no guilty verdict.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Spmoore8

  119. @Anonymous
    @anon

    They're not mutually exclusive.

    Most women who are victimized by black rapists on campus are women who associate with blacks. Liberal and SWPL type women generally don't associate with blacks on places like college campuses and when they are victimized it tends to be white rapists.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @anon

    “They’re not mutually exclusive.

    Most women who are victimized by black rapists on campus are women who associate with blacks. Liberal and SWPL type women generally don’t associate with blacks on places like college campuses and when they are victimized it tends to be white rapists.”

    But according to a lot of loser virgin Cucks on The Unz and Stormfront, they can’t get a White girlfriend because all of the White women prefer to date Black men. THEY HAVE TAKEN ALL OF OUR WOMEN, they say.

  120. @AndrewR
    @Tacitus2016

    Anti-Trump folks being violent thugs and cops being useless. How many times must we see this play out before we get groups of young, healthy, strong men to protect Trump supporters? This entire thing is a microcosm of our civilizational decline. If this were a healthy country, no sane person would dare to so much as glare at a Trump supporter.

    Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    If this were a healthy country, no sane person would dare to so much as glare at a Trump supporter.

    Not much a fascist, are you?

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    Consumed with the power of calling people names I see.

    Wanna call me racist as well? How about sexist, homophobic, dipshit?

    Go away little boy.

    Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    , @anon
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    yet

  121. @Anonymous
    Part of the issue here is that liberal journalists project their experiences to the rest of the country. Liberal journalists are generally SWPL types who either don't go to colleges with strong athletic programs and lots of black athletes, or don't travel in the same social circles as black students. If they are friends with blacks or associate with them, they're generally nerdy or SWPL type blacks, not ordinary blacks or black athletes. They generally don't hang out with black athletes or go to the same parties. So when they say that "this is what campus predators look like", part of what they mean is that they generally aren't in a position to be affected by black predators on campus, who commit most of the rapes overall, because they generally avoid blacks in the first place.

    Replies: @anon, @Tropic of Cancer

    I think there’s a lot of truth to this. These privileged and cocooned girls project their college experiences onto the whole country. They really do believe that rich drunken white guys are the biggest threat to women nationwide.

    The left’s strange obsession with frat boy rapists makes sense when you realise that most female left-wing/feminist leaders have this kind of background.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @Tropic of Cancer


    The left’s strange obsession with frat boy rapists makes sense when you realise that most female left-wing/feminist leaders have this kind of background.
     
    Not strange at all: the idea of non-emasculated white American men infuriates them, and the prospect that such men might organize (even in a frat) gives them pause: hostile or foreign governments often try to suppress fraternal organizations and secret societies.
  122. @Josh
    @Marty

    He was a freshman. My guess is that they were really drunk. Started grinding on the dance floor anonymously. Started making out. Went somewhere private (he's a freshman so he doesn't have a room at the frat house). This was probably all with very little to zero talking.

    If I were trying to argue on his defense, I would make a big deal about this next point. He fingers her. Is this something a rapist does to an unconscious girl? I'm guessing she was givong some kind of indication that he took for her enjoying it.

    At some point she probably passed out or was at least very close to it. Then the swedes arrive and he runs away. He clearly feels as though he has been caught, so there is an indication of a guilty drunken mind.

    im not sure this kid is a predator. Drunken hookup culture is just going to lead to things like this. Perhaps if it was made clear that normal women don't want to get drunk and have one night stands rather than it being a common sitcom plot. Perhaps men should be encouraged to be chivalrous or of the reputation for being a cad was actually considered a bad thing. What if, gasp, we returned to an era of chaperoned interactions between teenage single mean and women. This disgusting situation is pretty close to what passes for courtship among college kids. Feminism ia part of the cause and is the only socially acceptable "solution" to this.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @AndrewR, @Hippopotamusdrome

    Do you know if she became unconscious somewhere else and he dragged her limp to behind the dumpster without anyone seeing, or did she go with him to behind the dumpster and then became uncoscious there? If she did go to behind the dumpster with him voluntarily, we have to wonder what her purpose was.

    • Replies: @Josh
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    According to her letter they stopped their because she fell. this may be true, it may not. Horny drunk kids sometimes end up in some gross places. I would also warn everyone about how liberally "behind a dumpster" may be used here. clearly, somebody wants to create an image in our minds. We could be talking about "outside the back door 50 feet from the dumpster." Maybe they just went outside for some privacy and didn't particularly mind that of course their is a dumpster outside as well.

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

  123. @Calogero
    Since hate crimes are meant to scare a whole group of people, aren't faked hate crimes just as bad since they do the same thing anyway? Isn't constantly blowing rape statistics completely out of proportion similarly bad since it unnecessarily scares the hell out of so many young women and poisons healthy relationships between the sexes? Both of these also help to demonize innocent white men, but maybe these SJWs are so happy about that fact that they don't care how many women( or blacks or gays) are hurt. Anyway, I still believe that progressives only care about rape when the suspect is a white man, preferably wealthy, accomplished, and attractive. Just look at how they ignore rape in the third world (and in the third world sections of first world nations.)

    Replies: @anon

    Isn’t constantly blowing rape statistics completely out of proportion similarly bad since it unnecessarily scares the hell out of so many young women and poisons healthy relationships between the sexes?

    That’s the purpose of feminism.

    It’s like anti-racism – poison is its purpose.

  124. @Stephen R. Diamond
    @AndrewR


    If this were a healthy country, no sane person would dare to so much as glare at a Trump supporter.
     
    Not much a fascist, are you?

    Replies: @Wanderer, @anon

    Consumed with the power of calling people names I see.

    Wanna call me racist as well? How about sexist, homophobic, dipshit?

    Go away little boy.

    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond
    @Wanderer

    Characterizing a political position isn't calling names, you illiterate swine.

    Replies: @Wanderer

  125. @Threecranes
    CNN is running this story front and center under the banner headline "SHOW VICTIM'S LETTER TO YOUR SONS".

    Just who is the victim here? An eighteen year old kid whose life is being sacrificed on the left's altar of resentment. The left doesn't care that they are ruining the life a relatively, innocent young man whose life is from this day forward tainted with the label of "sexual predator"--and all for behavior between two very drunk young persons which is probably more the norm than the exception. Who of us hasn't been to a kegger, imbibed too much and ended up rolling in the grass with someone whom we didn't know and whom we may never meet again? To take this so far as to smear his face across the front page for all America to see is so cruel and unnecessary that it just shows that the left is capable of any and every sort of outrage and violation of human justice and dignity. These are seriously, sadistically bent people. I am appalled.

    Replies: @Wanderer

    I am seriously appalled at his judgement.

    Have you seen her photo?

    I think he should be in an institution.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Wanderer

    Where is the photo?

    Replies: @Wanderer

  126. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @anon

    They're not mutually exclusive.

    Most women who are victimized by black rapists on campus are women who associate with blacks. Liberal and SWPL type women generally don't associate with blacks on places like college campuses and when they are victimized it tends to be white rapists.

    Replies: @Jefferson, @anon

    She may well have had a secluded experience at college away from the sport scholarship dudes (is this guy one of those?) but I’m talking about her as a journalist not an SJW.

    “Not knowing” is not a valid argument for the media as they deliberately bury cases that don’t fit their relentlessly anti-white narrative while pushing things that do – which this is just another example of.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @anon

    I doubt a program like Stanford Swimming would have any walk-ons.

  127. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The case itself is pretty clear cut imo; it’s the media reaction that enrages.

    The aspect that only males have moral agency also rankles but not as much cos me very sexist.

    Also part of this is specifically feminism’s fault by making girls think they should drink like men cos “equality” ignoring the big difference in average body mass.

  128. @Stephen R. Diamond
    @AndrewR


    If this were a healthy country, no sane person would dare to so much as glare at a Trump supporter.
     
    Not much a fascist, are you?

    Replies: @Wanderer, @anon

    yet

  129. @guest
    @S. Anonyia

    I've never blacked out, despite occasionally drinking to the point of wishing death upon myself. Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost.

    I am mystified as to how blacking out works for other people. I imagine a lot of them lie. Many more are psychologically coping.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Dave Pinsen, @Kylie, @Rapparee

    A lot of so-called blackouts are really “brown-outs”- the hangoveree initially cannot remember last night’s events, until someone or something provides a handy reminder. “Oh yeah, I really did that, didn’t I?” The memory is in there, someplace, but the brain just can’t find the right drawer of the filing cabinet. Following my own few occasions of over-eager merriment and conviviality, my memories were fuzzy, and it was hard to recount the exact order of events, but I never completely lost recall of more than a brief couple of minutes here and there.

    That said, some people make blackouts into a competitive sport. If you drink like many Russians and college students- nonstop vodka shots taken rapidly one after another- you’ll be able to forget quite a lot before collapsing to the floor. It takes dedicated practice to be able to keep that much alcohol in one’s system while still functioning- novice drinkers will usually crash long before they get there.

  130. He didn’t rape her. Why is the MSM (and all of you cucks) repeating this lie?

    The judge said the sentence reflected his desire to shield the victim (of sexual assault but not rape!) from having to testify in detail. Was this her express wish? Then she has nothing to complain about regarding the sentence. What is the great ignominy of having been the victim of an unsuccessful rape? (Unless, that is, her conduct created mitigating circumstances.)

  131. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Contrary to what Heartist’ says, there are some guys out there who don’t have to inveigle girls to go to bed with them by resorting to tricks, legerdemain and deception. Why is everyone assuming that this guy had to somehow put something over on this gal? Many gals would trip over their tongues to date a handsome, Stanford swimmer. I still believe that she threw herself at him. I don’t buy her story for a minute. It’s not his fault that she nodded off before the final act. How do any of us know that she wasn’t blowing him with abandon just a minute before she passed out from the exertion? So what’s he supposed to do? Go home with a boner? Why not harmlessly rub against her, cream his own jeans and call it a day?

  132. @Wanderer
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    Consumed with the power of calling people names I see.

    Wanna call me racist as well? How about sexist, homophobic, dipshit?

    Go away little boy.

    Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    Characterizing a political position isn’t calling names, you illiterate swine.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    The word is used as a derogatory label for those you disagree with, especially when he was essentially calling for civility in political discourse.

  133. @Wanderer
    @Threecranes

    I am seriously appalled at his judgement.

    Have you seen her photo?

    I think he should be in an institution.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    Where is the photo?

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @SPMoore8

    It seems I mistook the photo of Petula as that of the alleged victim.

    Replies: @Spmoore8

  134. Josh says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome
    @Josh

    Do you know if she became unconscious somewhere else and he dragged her limp to behind the dumpster without anyone seeing, or did she go with him to behind the dumpster and then became uncoscious there? If she did go to behind the dumpster with him voluntarily, we have to wonder what her purpose was.

    Replies: @Josh

    According to her letter they stopped their because she fell. this may be true, it may not. Horny drunk kids sometimes end up in some gross places. I would also warn everyone about how liberally “behind a dumpster” may be used here. clearly, somebody wants to create an image in our minds. We could be talking about “outside the back door 50 feet from the dumpster.” Maybe they just went outside for some privacy and didn’t particularly mind that of course their is a dumpster outside as well.

  135. @Corvinus
    @Threecranes

    "There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark."

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That's a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    Here is the lesson lost on people--teach your son and daughter not to put themselves in this position of being drunk and losing their ability to make rational decisions, lest they fairly or unfairly receive consequences.

    Drink? Fine.
    Try to get some tail? Great.
    Drink until a guy and girl are drunk and have lost the ability to reason? All bets are off. Expect to get drilled literally and legally. No sympathy here.

    He put himself in this position. He got off light--six months in jail. Registered sex offender? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk and try to go all Roissy.

    She put herself in this position. She got off light--she's not dead. Psychological problems? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk, black out, and find yourself behind a dumpster.

    Choices were made here.

    Replies: @Threecranes, @Anonymous

    For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss. He then, thinking that he’d earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her–remember, there was no penetration–at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing.

    As I said in another post, which Steve hasn’t let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, “How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?”

    Hey, at that point claiming that you had nothing to do with it, that it was all done to you, looks like a pretty good option.

    Don’t underestimate women as adversaries. They’re infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Threecranes

    "For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss."

    Attention, everyone, we have spotted a Roissy syncophant. You have a wild imagination. Do you prefer your women to be incoherent? That would make it easier for you to escalate their buying temperature.

    "He then, thinking that he’d earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her–remember, there was no penetration–at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing."

    Right, seeing a women who has no clue where she is, with a guy running away from the situation. How Beta of him.

    "As I said in another post, which Steve hasn’t let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, “How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?”

    Not HAD, COULD. You make the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend, that she had to make up the whole story. Except she had blacked out and was laying there motionless. Is that how you work yourself into a lather with the ladies during kino?

    "Don’t underestimate women as adversaries. They’re infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term."

    And don't overestimate some men who get their jollies using their jockdom to take what they want. They're infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men and women understand what it all entails.

    Replies: @Mark2, @Threecranes, @Saint Louis

    , @Jack D
    @Threecranes

    It's more than just quick thinking about how to cover this up (though that might have happened too - a lot of these "rape" accusations are made by girls who are later pressured by their parents, boyfriends, etc. when they find out, sometimes months later).

    When my kids were little, sometime they would fall down, as little kids do. If you ran up to them with a look of shock and horror on your face as if they had just severed a limb, they would burst into hysterical tears, but if you came over and laughed and brushed them off, they would go about their business as if nothing happened. The way we experience an event is highly subjective - if you have all kinds of shrill harridans telling you that you are the victim of a heinous crime, then you feel like the victim of a heinous crime. If you read the woman's victim statement, that's exactly what happened to her. If OTOH, the couple had done exactly the same thing, but in privacy, and the next morning Brock had been nice to her when she woke up, she would have made some jokes about having had too much the night before and that would have been it.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  136. @josh
    @reiner Tor

    I think the fact that she is older and the kid was a freshman enters into it. She is clearly humiliated and knows she would not have consented unless very, very drunk.

    The problem really is that we have only one kind of sexual immorality. This is the logical end of our embrace of liberalism's idea of the Good as determined by the individual will (a la Justice Kennedy). Acts that cry out to heaven for vengeance must be reinterpreted in terms of preference utilitarianism often becoming incoherent in the process.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Good point. She was 23; he was 18 at most. The age difference is 5 years which is a Long Time at that age. She probably (rightly) feels like an idiot because she got so drunk that she got fingered behind a dumpster by a guy 5 years younger and then passed out. Hence, the 12k word screed absolving herself of any responsibility (c’mon man! the Two Towers?) and converting her stupidity into Victim Hood.

    I missed the part (tl;dr) about how they knew it was him.

  137. @Kylie
    @guest

    "Drunkenness has put me to sleep unawares, as it were, leaving me without a distinct memory of when, exactly, I fell asleep. But if that constitutes blacking out, never more than a few minutes are lost."

    Same here. I was often the only female in a mixed race group of hard drinkers. A male friend described my behavior in that circumstance as "fun and flirty". But I had good head for liquor and didn't get what my husband calls "stupid drunk". The guys admired my ability to keep up with or surpass them. They ALWAYS treated me respectfully. But gals who couldn't hold their liquor did not fare so well in that college town. Outside of the Olympics, amateurs get no respect.

    Speaking of which, I respected this victim more at first because I thought the swimmer found her passed out and took advantage. I didn't realize she'd hooked up with him at the party. Stupid drunk--both of them.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Thanks for the distaff perspective. I agree.

  138. @S. anonyia
    @kihowi

    It's not just the repulsive ones. 2/3 of my social media feed is dominated by this case. All my mid 20s friends are in rape hysteria mode. One girl even talked about how there was a high likelihood she would one day be raped because she is "blond and conventionally attractive." A lot of this is just young women imagining that young men are in an uncontrollable frenzy of desire over them.

    One interesting aspect of the story though: apparently the rapist was apprehended by two handsome Swedes.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Chrisnonymous

    That kind of behavior is frowned on in Sweden… if the rapist is dark-skinned… so they were lucky he was white…

  139. @SPMoore8
    @Simonini

    Again, I know people who have had blackouts, however, they were heavy drinkers. Sometimes I was surprised at when the blackout began (according to them). In this case I find it hard to believe that a woman would go to a party and have no memory of the party or interacting with the guy who assaulted her: that was my main point, there. However, someone else says that she had 4 shots and champagne before even going to the party. That's a different scenario.

    As for consent, I don't really know what the rule is, although I know it is different state by state. However, I have just assumed that a woman who was that drunk couldn't give consent. But I might be wrong about that, in legal terms.

    I'm not out to destroy this kid but sexual assault seems to be very much on the table: she was unresponsive and presumably unconscious when the Swedish bicyclers arrived, and the kid was diddling her, at a minimum. He should have known better. And his own drunkenness should not be a shield for his poor judgment. The alternative is allowing drunken men to have sex with drunken passed out women at parties. That's gross, and that is why it has to be described as a sexual assault, and punished.

    Replies: @TangoMan, @reiner Tor

    However, I have just assumed that a woman who was that drunk couldn’t give consent.

    He should have known better. And his own drunkenness should not be a shield for his poor judgment.

    Why the double standard? A drunk woman is not held responsible for her actions but a drunk man is held responsible for his actions.

    I favor one standard – either we’re not responsible for our actions when drunk or we are. If we are, then consent given while intoxicated is valid consent.

    • Agree: Mark2
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @TangoMan

    Sexual activity with an unconscious person is a crime, deservedly so. In my opinion, sexual activity with someone you don't know and who is as drunk as that woman was is also morally wrong.

    But you are right that she should be held accountable for her actions. Put it this way: If Turner had stopped his foreplay the moment she conked out, and got up and left, everything else would have been the same for her. The Swedes and then the police finding her body. The ride to the hospital. The return to consciousness the next morning. The humiliating rape kits and bodily searches. And so on. She accused him of "Taking away my worth." Not really: there was no rape. To a large extent she took her own worth away by passing out behind a dumpster during a late night hookup.

    On the other hand: he did engage in sexual conduct with an unconscious partner. And, judging by the testimony of the two Swedes, he very likely would have tried to penetrate her if they hadn't showed up, and then he really would have been guilty of rape. So he actually owes them, but that's why he was found guilty of two counts of sexual assault and one count of intent to rape.

    I do believe the defendant's story: He hooked up with a drunken woman at a frat party, he didn't realize how drunk she was, they went outside to find a little privacy for consensual sex, and then lights out. He should have stopped right there. Drunkenness is no excuse for not stopping right there.

    I don' think there's a double standard. Nobody should try to have sex with someone who is unconscious. I can understand how these things can happen, but we can't justify it.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @guest

  140. @TangoMan
    @SPMoore8

    However, I have just assumed that a woman who was that drunk couldn’t give consent.

    He should have known better. And his own drunkenness should not be a shield for his poor judgment.

    Why the double standard? A drunk woman is not held responsible for her actions but a drunk man is held responsible for his actions.

    I favor one standard - either we're not responsible for our actions when drunk or we are. If we are, then consent given while intoxicated is valid consent.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    Sexual activity with an unconscious person is a crime, deservedly so. In my opinion, sexual activity with someone you don’t know and who is as drunk as that woman was is also morally wrong.

    But you are right that she should be held accountable for her actions. Put it this way: If Turner had stopped his foreplay the moment she conked out, and got up and left, everything else would have been the same for her. The Swedes and then the police finding her body. The ride to the hospital. The return to consciousness the next morning. The humiliating rape kits and bodily searches. And so on. She accused him of “Taking away my worth.” Not really: there was no rape. To a large extent she took her own worth away by passing out behind a dumpster during a late night hookup.

    On the other hand: he did engage in sexual conduct with an unconscious partner. And, judging by the testimony of the two Swedes, he very likely would have tried to penetrate her if they hadn’t showed up, and then he really would have been guilty of rape. So he actually owes them, but that’s why he was found guilty of two counts of sexual assault and one count of intent to rape.

    I do believe the defendant’s story: He hooked up with a drunken woman at a frat party, he didn’t realize how drunk she was, they went outside to find a little privacy for consensual sex, and then lights out. He should have stopped right there. Drunkenness is no excuse for not stopping right there.

    I don’ think there’s a double standard. Nobody should try to have sex with someone who is unconscious. I can understand how these things can happen, but we can’t justify it.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @SPMoore8

    I think you have misunderstand what Tangoman said.

    If both were drunk , why is one party held responsible and the other not?

    As I understand it, alcohol reduces one's inhibitions and the functioning of the higher brain centers.

    If both were drunk, either both are responsible or neither is responsible, surely?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @guest
    @SPMoore8

    "he did engage in sexual conduct with an unconscious partner"

    Did he? All we know is that she can't remember and he ran away. That's not to say she wasn't conscious when he did whatever he did. I'd tend to think they'd have a hard time proving their case were it not for the benefit of the doubt we give women.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  141. @SPMoore8
    @TangoMan

    Sexual activity with an unconscious person is a crime, deservedly so. In my opinion, sexual activity with someone you don't know and who is as drunk as that woman was is also morally wrong.

    But you are right that she should be held accountable for her actions. Put it this way: If Turner had stopped his foreplay the moment she conked out, and got up and left, everything else would have been the same for her. The Swedes and then the police finding her body. The ride to the hospital. The return to consciousness the next morning. The humiliating rape kits and bodily searches. And so on. She accused him of "Taking away my worth." Not really: there was no rape. To a large extent she took her own worth away by passing out behind a dumpster during a late night hookup.

    On the other hand: he did engage in sexual conduct with an unconscious partner. And, judging by the testimony of the two Swedes, he very likely would have tried to penetrate her if they hadn't showed up, and then he really would have been guilty of rape. So he actually owes them, but that's why he was found guilty of two counts of sexual assault and one count of intent to rape.

    I do believe the defendant's story: He hooked up with a drunken woman at a frat party, he didn't realize how drunk she was, they went outside to find a little privacy for consensual sex, and then lights out. He should have stopped right there. Drunkenness is no excuse for not stopping right there.

    I don' think there's a double standard. Nobody should try to have sex with someone who is unconscious. I can understand how these things can happen, but we can't justify it.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @guest

    I think you have misunderstand what Tangoman said.

    If both were drunk , why is one party held responsible and the other not?

    As I understand it, alcohol reduces one’s inhibitions and the functioning of the higher brain centers.

    If both were drunk, either both are responsible or neither is responsible, surely?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Wanderer

    "If both were drunk, either both are responsible or neither is responsible, surely?"

    Depends upon how drunk and to what extent does a person's drunkenness limit their ability to speak and act. That is, there are degrees of drunkenness.

    There are drunk people who legally meet the criteria, but appear to function quite normally, i.e. no slurred speech, able to walk straight.

    Regardless, do you not find it rather offensive for any dude to put his ring finger in an orifice of a chick who is unable to move? I thought guys are the smarter sex in those situations.

    Again, the lessons is for both men and women NOT to get drunk to the point that consent could be cast into doubt when trousers or bloomers are lowered as a seemingly innocuous invitation for pleasure.

    Replies: @Spmoore8, @Wanderer

  142. @Twinkie
    @EdwardM


    Gallaudet, an outlier, seems to share some of these characteristics, but there must be a whole bizarre subculture there.
     
    I taught some students from Gallaudet one year during my early academic career. While they were not all childish, quite a few of them were given to throwing tantrums when things did not go their way - I don't mean just the usual late teenage whining - I mean actual toddler-like tantrums. It was clear to me that they had been coddled by others because of their disabilities.

    On the other hand, it is possible that deaf girls are subject to greater attempts at sexual assault than the non-deaf. There may be young men who think such young women make easier targets or "conquests." Vulnerabilities tend to attract the predatory, as a rule.

    Replies: @Saint Louis

    Gallaudet is also located in Northeast DC, nearby some not-so-great neighborhoods.

  143. @SPMoore8
    @Wanderer

    Where is the photo?

    Replies: @Wanderer

    It seems I mistook the photo of Petula as that of the alleged victim.

    • Replies: @Spmoore8
    @Wanderer

    Well that would explain why the Swedes were crying.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

  144. @Stephen R. Diamond
    @Wanderer

    Characterizing a political position isn't calling names, you illiterate swine.

    Replies: @Wanderer

    The word is used as a derogatory label for those you disagree with, especially when he was essentially calling for civility in political discourse.

  145. I know we can all be certain that, following this incident, all college coeds shall henceforth make the logical decision and no longer attend, much less voluntarily get drunk at, frat parties, which, as they must now know, are populated by dangerous sexual predators. I’m sure that’s why the MSM has so courteously brought this all to their attention. Perhaps they will be inspired, instead, to devote their time, parents’ money, and powers of reason to worthier pursuits like mathematics or x-Ray crystallography. It might win them a trip to Sweden, land of heroes, for a Nobel prize and maybe even a visit to Stieg Larsson’s grave. Maybe.

  146. @Tropic of Cancer
    @Anonymous

    I think there's a lot of truth to this. These privileged and cocooned girls project their college experiences onto the whole country. They really do believe that rich drunken white guys are the biggest threat to women nationwide.

    The left's strange obsession with frat boy rapists makes sense when you realise that most female left-wing/feminist leaders have this kind of background.

    Replies: @Marcus

    The left’s strange obsession with frat boy rapists makes sense when you realise that most female left-wing/feminist leaders have this kind of background.

    Not strange at all: the idea of non-emasculated white American men infuriates them, and the prospect that such men might organize (even in a frat) gives them pause: hostile or foreign governments often try to suppress fraternal organizations and secret societies.

  147. Tony says:
    @Marty
    I didn't bother reading the article or the comments thereto above, but the privilege came in the sentencing. The weird part is the judge would appear to be Jewish, Aaron Persky. And by the way, it's pathetic that a guy with Turner's looks would have to force himself on anyone.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Josh, @Tony

    “And by the way, it’s pathetic that a guy with Turner’s looks would have to force himself on anyone.”

    Please, the guy is pretty dicky looking. Though they might find him kind of attractive in jail. He definitely needs to be put in P.C. (Protective Custody aka Punk City) or he’s gonna be more than digitally penetrated.

    • Replies: @Spmoore8
    @Tony

    Odds of getting raped in County are very low. It's like live in High School detention. In prison he'd get more steak than he could handle.

    , @Marty
    @Tony

    Well, to my eyes he's kind of a blend of George Peppard and Steve McQueen, a combination few women would be able resist, though I admit his inviting smile might not be quite "bad boy" enough. By the way, you underestimate the physicality of swimmers. In the late '90s at Cal, 4 members of the swimming or water polo team showed up to play in an otherwise all-black noontime basketball game. They wiped the floor with the brothers, then strode out, never to be seen again. They had a couple inches on the homies, but still quite a spectacle.

  148. @anon
    @G Pinfold

    This is why I love watching the excellent show THE FIRST 48. Since it deals with real life murders and not Hollywood's reel life ones the demographics can't be fudged.

    Replies: @G Pinfold, @donut

    Better hurry New Orleans just cancelled their contract with the show because so many if not all the murders were black on black and of course it was racist to keep exposing that fact . I believe NOLA is not the first city to do so .

    • Replies: @anon
    @donut

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The show is truthful and therefore is by its very nature very politically incorrect. It truly shows THE COLOR OF CRIME. I am actually quite surprised it has been on the air as long as it has.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  149. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    @Threecranes

    "There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark."

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That's a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    Here is the lesson lost on people--teach your son and daughter not to put themselves in this position of being drunk and losing their ability to make rational decisions, lest they fairly or unfairly receive consequences.

    Drink? Fine.
    Try to get some tail? Great.
    Drink until a guy and girl are drunk and have lost the ability to reason? All bets are off. Expect to get drilled literally and legally. No sympathy here.

    He put himself in this position. He got off light--six months in jail. Registered sex offender? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk and try to go all Roissy.

    She put herself in this position. She got off light--she's not dead. Psychological problems? Oh, well. Lesson for all you kiddies out there NOT to get drunk, black out, and find yourself behind a dumpster.

    Choices were made here.

    Replies: @Threecranes, @Anonymous

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That’s a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    She was unconscious while he was fingering her? According to whom? How dark was it? How far away? Did they have w clear sight line? Wasn’t he also described as humping her?

    Do we know she was not conscious when he first fingered her? Was he aware she was later unconscious?

    There’s enough reasonable doubt here that his attorneys should have won this case for him and gotten a no guilty verdict.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Anonymous

    "She was unconscious while he was fingering her? According to whom? How dark was it? How far away? Did they have w clear sight line? Wasn’t he also described as humping her?"

    I take it that you can read the court transcripts. Those answers are found there.

    "There’s enough reasonable doubt here that his attorneys should have won this case for him and gotten a no guilty verdict."

    Apparently there was NOT enough reasonable doubt.

    , @Spmoore8
    @Anonymous

    The Swedes stopped because she was lying there. She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel. The garbage area is semi enclosed and across the path from the frat, maybe 20 feet. She was partially undressed and he was humping her.

    I'm sure she's embarrassed but she didn't bring the charges. And she is as responsible for her conduct as he is. But she wasn't sexing him when he was unconscious. He was. End of story. The punishment fits the crime.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

  150. @Threecranes
    I would like to make two comments about this case apart from the rape angle and both relate to college swimmers.

    1. How is it that this young man/boy is being held up as an example of privilege?

    2. Why was she interested in him to begin with?

    Answer to 1. College swimmers are likely the hardest working athletes in all athletics. They practice twice a day. Morning practice begins in the wee hours before breakfast. Afternoon practice is typical of all athletics. They may swim 10-15 miles a day. They work very hard! That's why American swimmers have dominated the World's and Olympics for the last 100 years! There is no group of harder working, clean-living athletes in the world, and that's a fact. They work harder than any slave ever had to and are as far from privileged as can be imagined. Between practice and studying, their lives are almost monk like. Part of the glee of those pushing this narrative no doubt results from their bringing down a person who represents these elites--what they are and what their detractors could never be.

    Answer to 2. Anybody here ever seen a scholarship swimmer up close? They're 6'4" tall, shoulders two axe handles wide, narrow at the hip, lean and smooth as a dolphin. Remember sales of the Olympic water polo team poster a few years ago? Sold out in one hour, 100,000 copies, women ate it up. We're talking about really good looking, studly men here. For a 23 year old single woman, such a man, a Stanford swimmer, would be an amazing catch--brains and brawn. The moment she was introduced to him she set her sights on him--who knows, she thinks to herself, he might even fall for her. The rest is typical of young romance. There was no rape here, just fumbling and groping in the dark.

    Replies: @International Jew

    They may swim 10-15 miles a day.

    Maybe kilometers. 10K per day is typical. Don’t call it “work” either, they like to swim. And workouts include frequent rest.

    Work is doing something you don’t like.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @International Jew

    If they'd enjoy it they'd do it voluntarily. If they could get the same results by swimming just 1k per week, they'd cut their workouts accordingly.

    They are probably obsessed about it (mostly about their results and how they can improve) but clearly they don't enjoy swimming much. Many swimmers don't swim recreationally after retirement at all, though most overcome this after a while and get back to the pool to coach or at least for recreational swimming.


    workouts include frequent rest.
     
    Rest doesn't mean you do whatever you please. For optimal results, you need to think about the workout itself, like playing the movements in your had and think about the next series.
  151. @Tiny Duck
    This crime needs to be trumpeted from the roof top until Election Day

    This is what is at stake. If Clinton loses creepy white men will continue their destructive path of rape and evil

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Jasper Been, @Jack D, @fish, @Reg Cæsar, @William Badwhite, @Hapalong Cassidy

    I read this and immediately laughed, being appreciative of the sarcastic humor that usually permeates these boards. Then I saw who wrote it and I was like, holy shit, he’s being serious.

  152. There’s always a lot of jokes about males being raped in prison. Apparently that’s funny. There’s jokes about this person had he gone to jail he would have become Leroy’s girlfriend and so on with the grossness from the stupid ones. We have a double standard here.

    • Replies: @Mark2
    @anonymous

    It's not the what but the who that gets people worked up.

  153. @Threecranes
    @Corvinus

    For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss. He then, thinking that he'd earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her--remember, there was no penetration--at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing.

    As I said in another post, which Steve hasn't let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, "How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?"

    Hey, at that point claiming that you had nothing to do with it, that it was all done to you, looks like a pretty good option.

    Don't underestimate women as adversaries. They're infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D

    “For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss.”

    Attention, everyone, we have spotted a Roissy syncophant. You have a wild imagination. Do you prefer your women to be incoherent? That would make it easier for you to escalate their buying temperature.

    “He then, thinking that he’d earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her–remember, there was no penetration–at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing.”

    Right, seeing a women who has no clue where she is, with a guy running away from the situation. How Beta of him.

    “As I said in another post, which Steve hasn’t let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, “How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?”

    Not HAD, COULD. You make the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend, that she had to make up the whole story. Except she had blacked out and was laying there motionless. Is that how you work yourself into a lather with the ladies during kino?

    “Don’t underestimate women as adversaries. They’re infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term.”

    And don’t overestimate some men who get their jollies using their jockdom to take what they want. They’re infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men and women understand what it all entails.

    • Replies: @Mark2
    @Corvinus

    Jocks (and frat boys and other high status males) hardly have to "take" anything. This is why the idea of rapine college athletes is largely wishful thinking on the part of beta males. Their "victims" were almost always perfectly willing (except retroactively).

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Marcus

    , @Threecranes
    @Corvinus

    Neither you nor I know precisely what happened, nor apparently do either of the participants, both having been blind drunk. I'm only pointing out that she had ample motive (and probably some encouragement) for conjuring up some story that exonerated her and at the same time wrapped her in a protective cocoon of pity and righteous outrage.

    I have learned, over the years, that whenever people mount their chargers and are ready to launch a crusade, then that is precisely the moment for withdrawal and reflection--the war on Iraq being a great example. And just so here. In my experience, many young women are ready, willing and able to more than step up to the plate and take their swings, especially after alcohol has "put the Superego to sleep", the Guardian or watchdog of their "morals" and I put morals in quotes not because I question their or her worth but because in many cases, sex isn't about morals at all. I am a bit more Henry Millerish about the whole thing. She's probably a fine woman, a bit misguided maybe, but then, who isn't?

    I don't buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex. What she is ashamed of is having all this happen in front of her family and boyfriend. Let's stop looking at these types of things as though we were all born in a state of innocence and only become corrupt because some outside agent brought us down. What childishness. Let's stop pretending that we all, each of us, don't have a sex drive. Everyone's acting as though this guy deflowered a virgin angel. What tripe!

    I'll say it again; how do you know that she wasn't having a great time before she passed out? That it wasn't the greatest sex of her life? The answer is, "You don't" and by her own admission, her regrets only manifested later, so if it's alright with you, I'll base my judgement of what occurred on the basis of her behavior while she was with it and functioning, and by those criteria, she was willing and cooperative. I don't trust after the fact rationalizations.

    As for your innuendos on my personal motives, character etc. Yeah, whatever, believe whatever you like.

    Replies: @Olorin

    , @Saint Louis
    @Corvinus

    You say Donatello makes the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend. But it's a pretty good assumption. It's clear that at a minimum they were grinding at the party.

    I know I wouldn't be too happy to discover my girlfriend had been dry-humping (which is really all grinding is) some dude in public. That's why I lean toward Donatello's view that she was trying to cover her ass.

    Ultimately, we don't really know what happened, and that is precisely why he should have been acquitted, with the presumption of innocence and reasonable doubt and whatnot.

    I think the judge realized this was a miscarriage of justice and sentenced accordingly. Imagine if he had issued a JNOV.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  154. @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That’s a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    She was unconscious while he was fingering her? According to whom? How dark was it? How far away? Did they have w clear sight line? Wasn't he also described as humping her?

    Do we know she was not conscious when he first fingered her? Was he aware she was later unconscious?

    There's enough reasonable doubt here that his attorneys should have won this case for him and gotten a no guilty verdict.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Spmoore8

    “She was unconscious while he was fingering her? According to whom? How dark was it? How far away? Did they have w clear sight line? Wasn’t he also described as humping her?”

    I take it that you can read the court transcripts. Those answers are found there.

    “There’s enough reasonable doubt here that his attorneys should have won this case for him and gotten a no guilty verdict.”

    Apparently there was NOT enough reasonable doubt.

  155. Meanwhile, that talented Jew and rapist, Roman Polanski, lives the good life in Switzerland with no prospect of extradition to serve out his sentence, and nobody seems unduly concerned.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Oscar Peterson

    Roman Polanski is a half-Jew.

  156. @Thea
    @anonymous

    I really agree.

    A lot of false rape allegations result from a failure to stick the landing so to speak. Girl puts out for guy way out of her league, he never calls again cause he can do better, girl feels used( to be fair, she was.) sometimes this feeling turns to malice. Campus feminists get involved, hijinks ensue...

    Replies: @Mark2

    This is pretty much the entirety of the campus rape “crisis” in a nutshell. The WN in me wants to qualify that by adding in marauding black athletes, but honestly it’s probably the same deal there as well.

  157. @Wanderer
    @SPMoore8

    I think you have misunderstand what Tangoman said.

    If both were drunk , why is one party held responsible and the other not?

    As I understand it, alcohol reduces one's inhibitions and the functioning of the higher brain centers.

    If both were drunk, either both are responsible or neither is responsible, surely?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “If both were drunk, either both are responsible or neither is responsible, surely?”

    Depends upon how drunk and to what extent does a person’s drunkenness limit their ability to speak and act. That is, there are degrees of drunkenness.

    There are drunk people who legally meet the criteria, but appear to function quite normally, i.e. no slurred speech, able to walk straight.

    Regardless, do you not find it rather offensive for any dude to put his ring finger in an orifice of a chick who is unable to move? I thought guys are the smarter sex in those situations.

    Again, the lessons is for both men and women NOT to get drunk to the point that consent could be cast into doubt when trousers or bloomers are lowered as a seemingly innocuous invitation for pleasure.

    • Agree: Spmoore8
    • Replies: @Spmoore8
    @Corvinus

    Again, it is against the law to be sexing someone who is "incapacitated." That includes passed out, unconscious, comatose, and severely retarded. Why are we having this debate?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Corvinus, @Jack D

    , @Wanderer
    @Corvinus

    Again, the lessons is for both men and women NOT to get drunk to the point that consent could be cast into doubt when trousers or bloomers are lowered as a seemingly innocuous invitation for pleasure.

    Why do you blame the victims so much you sexist?

    Besides, women have no agency, so they can not be expected to be concerned about the consequences of their actions.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  158. @donut
    @anon

    Better hurry New Orleans just cancelled their contract with the show because so many if not all the murders were black on black and of course it was racist to keep exposing that fact . I believe NOLA is not the first city to do so .

    Replies: @anon

    Doesn’t surprise me at all. The show is truthful and therefore is by its very nature very politically incorrect. It truly shows THE COLOR OF CRIME. I am actually quite surprised it has been on the air as long as it has.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @anon

    Speaking of The Color of Crime: http://www.colorofcrime.com/2016/03/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

  159. @Corvinus
    @Threecranes

    "For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss."

    Attention, everyone, we have spotted a Roissy syncophant. You have a wild imagination. Do you prefer your women to be incoherent? That would make it easier for you to escalate their buying temperature.

    "He then, thinking that he’d earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her–remember, there was no penetration–at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing."

    Right, seeing a women who has no clue where she is, with a guy running away from the situation. How Beta of him.

    "As I said in another post, which Steve hasn’t let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, “How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?”

    Not HAD, COULD. You make the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend, that she had to make up the whole story. Except she had blacked out and was laying there motionless. Is that how you work yourself into a lather with the ladies during kino?

    "Don’t underestimate women as adversaries. They’re infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term."

    And don't overestimate some men who get their jollies using their jockdom to take what they want. They're infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men and women understand what it all entails.

    Replies: @Mark2, @Threecranes, @Saint Louis

    Jocks (and frat boys and other high status males) hardly have to “take” anything. This is why the idea of rapine college athletes is largely wishful thinking on the part of beta males. Their “victims” were almost always perfectly willing (except retroactively).

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Mark2

    "Jocks (and frat boys and other high status males) hardly have to “take” anything."

    Not all jocks are "alphas". We ASSUME they are, but, anecdotally, there were guys in my high school who played three sports, and my friends and I would not call them "lady killers".

    "This is why the idea of rapine college athletes is largely wishful thinking on the part of beta males."

    Really. So why is Mr. Sailer harping on black athletes who play football for their propensity to "get me some white girls"? Don't you know white girls bleed alot?

    "Their “victims” were almost always perfectly willing (except retroactively)."

    Another Roissy acolyte. They are coming out of the woodwork. You don't know that they are "almost perfectly willing". You assume, which these days gets you in trouble.

    , @Marcus
    @Mark2

    Really? Seems like universities covering for assaults by football players is rather routine.

  160. @anonymous
    There's always a lot of jokes about males being raped in prison. Apparently that's funny. There's jokes about this person had he gone to jail he would have become Leroy's girlfriend and so on with the grossness from the stupid ones. We have a double standard here.

    Replies: @Mark2

    It’s not the what but the who that gets people worked up.

  161. @Wanderer
    @SPMoore8

    It seems I mistook the photo of Petula as that of the alleged victim.

    Replies: @Spmoore8

    Well that would explain why the Swedes were crying.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Spmoore8


    Well that would explain why the Swedes were crying.
     

    I strongly suspect the "Swedes were crying" bit is entirely made up, inserted at some point in the media chain to lend these men with some cred forthose with typical campus hard feminist sensibilities.

    Healthy young dudes who tackle other (possibly violent) males and pin them down while waiting for the cops don't cry.

    In fact, few men do, contrary to the politically correct myths that have been taking hold in the last decade or so. It's a rare physiological response in adult males.

  162. What was the evidence that she was unconscious when he first slid his hand down to her vagina? A lot of reasonable doubt in this case.

    Would she have allowed him to do so that night if she was conscious? Probably.

  163. @Marcus
    @PiltdownMan

    Jonsson doesn't look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Jonsson doesn’t look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?

    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the “Black Irish” they do exist. It’s more common to find that type in Norway though. There’s some speculation that this has something to do with an influx of Walloons in the 17th century into Scandinavia. And Swedes do tan quite dark, unlike, say, the gingers of Scotland.

    There are, of course, contemporary admixtures but Jonsson does not appear to be one of those.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @PiltdownMan

    Maybe he's part Lapp/Sami?

    , @Jefferson
    @PiltdownMan

    "Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the “Black Irish” they do exist."

    In your opinion, what percentage of Native Indigeneous Swedes do not look "stereotypically" Swede?

    , @snorlax
    @PiltdownMan


    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the “Black Irish” they do exist.
     
    A few months ago I thought the director and star of 80's action film spoof "Kung Fury," David Sandberg, did not look very Swedish, but my Googling indicated that both he and his parents are native Swedes. (Although his name sounds Jewish to American ears, "Sandberg" is apparently a common Swedish surname).

    Replies: @Jefferson

  164. @Spmoore8
    @Wanderer

    Well that would explain why the Swedes were crying.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Well that would explain why the Swedes were crying.

    I strongly suspect the “Swedes were crying” bit is entirely made up, inserted at some point in the media chain to lend these men with some cred forthose with typical campus hard feminist sensibilities.

    Healthy young dudes who tackle other (possibly violent) males and pin them down while waiting for the cops don’t cry.

    In fact, few men do, contrary to the politically correct myths that have been taking hold in the last decade or so. It’s a rare physiological response in adult males.

  165. @Tony
    @Marty

    "And by the way, it’s pathetic that a guy with Turner’s looks would have to force himself on anyone."

    Please, the guy is pretty dicky looking. Though they might find him kind of attractive in jail. He definitely needs to be put in P.C. (Protective Custody aka Punk City) or he's gonna be more than digitally penetrated.

    Replies: @Spmoore8, @Marty

    Odds of getting raped in County are very low. It’s like live in High School detention. In prison he’d get more steak than he could handle.

  166. @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    Something illegal clearly occurred. A guy fingering a woman who was incapacitated. That’s a crime. She may have consented, she may not have consented. No one truly knows. But she was unconscious.

    She was unconscious while he was fingering her? According to whom? How dark was it? How far away? Did they have w clear sight line? Wasn't he also described as humping her?

    Do we know she was not conscious when he first fingered her? Was he aware she was later unconscious?

    There's enough reasonable doubt here that his attorneys should have won this case for him and gotten a no guilty verdict.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Spmoore8

    The Swedes stopped because she was lying there. She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel. The garbage area is semi enclosed and across the path from the frat, maybe 20 feet. She was partially undressed and he was humping her.

    I’m sure she’s embarrassed but she didn’t bring the charges. And she is as responsible for her conduct as he is. But she wasn’t sexing him when he was unconscious. He was. End of story. The punishment fits the crime.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Spmoore8

    She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel.

    Was she completely unresponsive? If she were at all responsive, might not be hard for him to mistake her state for the conduct of someone (albeit a drunk someone) who was being sexually pleasured - especially if, minutes before, she had walked with him on her own accord to that location in order to hook up.

    The garbage area is semi enclosed and across the path from the frat, maybe 20 feet. She was partially undressed and he was humping her.

    It must have been relatively dark there. And with her on top of her, where does the fingering come into it?

    She was partially undressed

    That is rather vague. Please specify.

    But she wasn’t sexing him when he was unconscious. He was. End of story. The punishment fits the crime.

    I don't see how we can be at all certain given what you have described above that she was unconscious (or, if she was, that he knew that to be the case) when he started fingering her.

    , @Anonymous
    @Spmoore8

    The Swedes stopped because she was lying there. She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel.

    The Swedes observation that she was unconscious applies only to the point from after the Stanford student had stood up, the Swedes had walked over to him, and had questioned him, "What happened?"

  167. @Corvinus
    @Wanderer

    "If both were drunk, either both are responsible or neither is responsible, surely?"

    Depends upon how drunk and to what extent does a person's drunkenness limit their ability to speak and act. That is, there are degrees of drunkenness.

    There are drunk people who legally meet the criteria, but appear to function quite normally, i.e. no slurred speech, able to walk straight.

    Regardless, do you not find it rather offensive for any dude to put his ring finger in an orifice of a chick who is unable to move? I thought guys are the smarter sex in those situations.

    Again, the lessons is for both men and women NOT to get drunk to the point that consent could be cast into doubt when trousers or bloomers are lowered as a seemingly innocuous invitation for pleasure.

    Replies: @Spmoore8, @Wanderer

    Again, it is against the law to be sexing someone who is “incapacitated.” That includes passed out, unconscious, comatose, and severely retarded. Why are we having this debate?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Spmoore8

    it is against the law to be sexing someone who is “incapacitated.”

    How the hell did he know she was "incapacitated" if she and he had just walked outside to find a private place to hook up with each other?

    Replies: @Spmoore8

    , @Corvinus
    @Spmoore8

    "Again, it is against the law to be sexing someone who is “incapacitated.” That includes passed out, unconscious, comatose, and severely retarded. Why are we having this debate?"

    Because the male feminists called the manosphere is coming to the defense of their homie. Don't blame them, that's exactly what some women do in defense of their girlies.

    , @Jack D
    @Spmoore8

    There are a lot of things that are against the law that go on every day, but only a few people get caught and have their lives ruined. In California, the age of consent is 18. How many 16 and 17 year olds (and younger) have broken this law? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Ditto marijuana laws - how many millions of people have broken these laws?

    Fundamentally, this kid's mistake was having sex in a public place. Had they gone somewhere private, then they would have done their thing, she would have woken up in the morning and remembered nothing and that would have been that, especially if he was nice to her in the morning. With this girl's drinking habits, the chances are high that has already happened to her a number of times. But no, idiot has to rut like a dog in public. The girl wakes up surrounded by police and nurses taking rape kits and her concerned parents, etc. so she has no choice but to view this as a rape rather than just something that happens once in a while (OK, most weekends) when she drinks too much. He deserves what happened to him, but for being stupid, not for what he did, which is no different than what happens on campus every night.

    Regarding "incapacitation" - unless he dragged her behind the dumpster, she got there more or less on her own two feet. He was almost as equally drunk as she was and in the excitement of the moment could hardly be expected to notice whether she drifted off at some point. The feminist ideal where you are supposed to get written consent every step of the way and every thirty seconds thereafter bears no relation to actual human drunken sex. In the midst of a coupling at 2 or 3 x over the legal limit for BAC the pair are operating on a chimp or maybe even a lizard level and are not going to observe any legal niceties.

  168. @Josh
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    According to her letter they stopped their because she fell. this may be true, it may not. Horny drunk kids sometimes end up in some gross places. I would also warn everyone about how liberally "behind a dumpster" may be used here. clearly, somebody wants to create an image in our minds. We could be talking about "outside the back door 50 feet from the dumpster." Maybe they just went outside for some privacy and didn't particularly mind that of course their is a dumpster outside as well.

    Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

  169. @Corvinus
    @Threecranes

    "For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss."

    Attention, everyone, we have spotted a Roissy syncophant. You have a wild imagination. Do you prefer your women to be incoherent? That would make it easier for you to escalate their buying temperature.

    "He then, thinking that he’d earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her–remember, there was no penetration–at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing."

    Right, seeing a women who has no clue where she is, with a guy running away from the situation. How Beta of him.

    "As I said in another post, which Steve hasn’t let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, “How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?”

    Not HAD, COULD. You make the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend, that she had to make up the whole story. Except she had blacked out and was laying there motionless. Is that how you work yourself into a lather with the ladies during kino?

    "Don’t underestimate women as adversaries. They’re infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term."

    And don't overestimate some men who get their jollies using their jockdom to take what they want. They're infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men and women understand what it all entails.

    Replies: @Mark2, @Threecranes, @Saint Louis

    Neither you nor I know precisely what happened, nor apparently do either of the participants, both having been blind drunk. I’m only pointing out that she had ample motive (and probably some encouragement) for conjuring up some story that exonerated her and at the same time wrapped her in a protective cocoon of pity and righteous outrage.

    I have learned, over the years, that whenever people mount their chargers and are ready to launch a crusade, then that is precisely the moment for withdrawal and reflection–the war on Iraq being a great example. And just so here. In my experience, many young women are ready, willing and able to more than step up to the plate and take their swings, especially after alcohol has “put the Superego to sleep”, the Guardian or watchdog of their “morals” and I put morals in quotes not because I question their or her worth but because in many cases, sex isn’t about morals at all. I am a bit more Henry Millerish about the whole thing. She’s probably a fine woman, a bit misguided maybe, but then, who isn’t?

    I don’t buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex. What she is ashamed of is having all this happen in front of her family and boyfriend. Let’s stop looking at these types of things as though we were all born in a state of innocence and only become corrupt because some outside agent brought us down. What childishness. Let’s stop pretending that we all, each of us, don’t have a sex drive. Everyone’s acting as though this guy deflowered a virgin angel. What tripe!

    I’ll say it again; how do you know that she wasn’t having a great time before she passed out? That it wasn’t the greatest sex of her life? The answer is, “You don’t” and by her own admission, her regrets only manifested later, so if it’s alright with you, I’ll base my judgement of what occurred on the basis of her behavior while she was with it and functioning, and by those criteria, she was willing and cooperative. I don’t trust after the fact rationalizations.

    As for your innuendos on my personal motives, character etc. Yeah, whatever, believe whatever you like.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    @Threecranes


    I don’t buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex. What she is ashamed of is having all this happen in front of her family and boyfriend.

     

    Totally agree.

    She was apparently driven to the party (by her mother?) already well in her cups. She picked a college athlete 5 years her junior to play with. She drank more and let her inner animal prowl.

    Then woke up in an alley with her casual, and probably not unusual, sex habits reframed by others as something much more serious.

    No wonder she had to confabulate 12,000 words about being a skyscraper.

    Millennials need chaperons. I'm more convinced of that than ever.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  170. @Corvinus
    @Wanderer

    "If both were drunk, either both are responsible or neither is responsible, surely?"

    Depends upon how drunk and to what extent does a person's drunkenness limit their ability to speak and act. That is, there are degrees of drunkenness.

    There are drunk people who legally meet the criteria, but appear to function quite normally, i.e. no slurred speech, able to walk straight.

    Regardless, do you not find it rather offensive for any dude to put his ring finger in an orifice of a chick who is unable to move? I thought guys are the smarter sex in those situations.

    Again, the lessons is for both men and women NOT to get drunk to the point that consent could be cast into doubt when trousers or bloomers are lowered as a seemingly innocuous invitation for pleasure.

    Replies: @Spmoore8, @Wanderer

    Again, the lessons is for both men and women NOT to get drunk to the point that consent could be cast into doubt when trousers or bloomers are lowered as a seemingly innocuous invitation for pleasure.

    Why do you blame the victims so much you sexist?

    Besides, women have no agency, so they can not be expected to be concerned about the consequences of their actions.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Wanderer

    "Why do you blame the victims so much you sexist?"

    [Laughs] your dig at me means absolutely nothing to me. Haven't you heard, all white males are sexist!

    "Besides, women have no agency, so they can not be expected to be concerned about the consequences of their actions."

    Just stop. Men and women BOTH make their choices of their own free will. For you to think that women are unconcerned about the ramifications of the conduct, you're an idiot.

    Replies: @Wanderer

  171. @Spmoore8
    @Corvinus

    Again, it is against the law to be sexing someone who is "incapacitated." That includes passed out, unconscious, comatose, and severely retarded. Why are we having this debate?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Corvinus, @Jack D

    it is against the law to be sexing someone who is “incapacitated.”

    How the hell did he know she was “incapacitated” if she and he had just walked outside to find a private place to hook up with each other?

    • Replies: @Spmoore8
    @Anonymous

    She was incapacitated because she passed out. This what everyone testified and it is what the jury believed.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

  172. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Spmoore8
    @Anonymous

    The Swedes stopped because she was lying there. She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel. The garbage area is semi enclosed and across the path from the frat, maybe 20 feet. She was partially undressed and he was humping her.

    I'm sure she's embarrassed but she didn't bring the charges. And she is as responsible for her conduct as he is. But she wasn't sexing him when he was unconscious. He was. End of story. The punishment fits the crime.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel.

    Was she completely unresponsive? If she were at all responsive, might not be hard for him to mistake her state for the conduct of someone (albeit a drunk someone) who was being sexually pleasured – especially if, minutes before, she had walked with him on her own accord to that location in order to hook up.

    The garbage area is semi enclosed and across the path from the frat, maybe 20 feet. She was partially undressed and he was humping her.

    It must have been relatively dark there. And with her on top of her, where does the fingering come into it?

    She was partially undressed

    That is rather vague. Please specify.

    But she wasn’t sexing him when he was unconscious. He was. End of story. The punishment fits the crime.

    I don’t see how we can be at all certain given what you have described above that she was unconscious (or, if she was, that he knew that to be the case) when he started fingering her.

  173. @SPMoore8
    @TangoMan

    Sexual activity with an unconscious person is a crime, deservedly so. In my opinion, sexual activity with someone you don't know and who is as drunk as that woman was is also morally wrong.

    But you are right that she should be held accountable for her actions. Put it this way: If Turner had stopped his foreplay the moment she conked out, and got up and left, everything else would have been the same for her. The Swedes and then the police finding her body. The ride to the hospital. The return to consciousness the next morning. The humiliating rape kits and bodily searches. And so on. She accused him of "Taking away my worth." Not really: there was no rape. To a large extent she took her own worth away by passing out behind a dumpster during a late night hookup.

    On the other hand: he did engage in sexual conduct with an unconscious partner. And, judging by the testimony of the two Swedes, he very likely would have tried to penetrate her if they hadn't showed up, and then he really would have been guilty of rape. So he actually owes them, but that's why he was found guilty of two counts of sexual assault and one count of intent to rape.

    I do believe the defendant's story: He hooked up with a drunken woman at a frat party, he didn't realize how drunk she was, they went outside to find a little privacy for consensual sex, and then lights out. He should have stopped right there. Drunkenness is no excuse for not stopping right there.

    I don' think there's a double standard. Nobody should try to have sex with someone who is unconscious. I can understand how these things can happen, but we can't justify it.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @guest

    “he did engage in sexual conduct with an unconscious partner”

    Did he? All we know is that she can’t remember and he ran away. That’s not to say she wasn’t conscious when he did whatever he did. I’d tend to think they’d have a hard time proving their case were it not for the benefit of the doubt we give women.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @guest

    Did he? All we know is that she can’t be remember and he ran away. That’s not to say she wasn’t conscious when he did whatever he did. I’d tend to think they’d have a hard time proving their case were it not for the benefit of the doubt we give women.

    As more facts emerge about this case, it looks more and more like defense counsel dropped the ball or the court succumbed to political pressure to convict.

    The boy should have been acquitted. There's simply too much reasonable doubt to convict.

  174. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This observation by one of the Swedes seems quite damaging to the prosecution’s case:

    ‘When he got up we saw that she still wasn’t moving at all, so we walked up and asked something like, ‘What are you doing?” Arndt recalled in an interview with the Swedish news outlet Expressen on Tuesday.

    If the Stanford student was intent on assaulting or raping her, why did he get up?

    Most likely explanation: he has just realized she was unresponsive.

  175. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @guest
    @SPMoore8

    "he did engage in sexual conduct with an unconscious partner"

    Did he? All we know is that she can't remember and he ran away. That's not to say she wasn't conscious when he did whatever he did. I'd tend to think they'd have a hard time proving their case were it not for the benefit of the doubt we give women.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Did he? All we know is that she can’t be remember and he ran away. That’s not to say she wasn’t conscious when he did whatever he did. I’d tend to think they’d have a hard time proving their case were it not for the benefit of the doubt we give women.

    As more facts emerge about this case, it looks more and more like defense counsel dropped the ball or the court succumbed to political pressure to convict.

    The boy should have been acquitted. There’s simply too much reasonable doubt to convict.

  176. @Anonymous
    @Spmoore8

    it is against the law to be sexing someone who is “incapacitated.”

    How the hell did he know she was "incapacitated" if she and he had just walked outside to find a private place to hook up with each other?

    Replies: @Spmoore8

    She was incapacitated because she passed out. This what everyone testified and it is what the jury believed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Spmoore8

    he was incapacitated because she passed out. This what everyone testified and it is what the jury believed.

    Those observations date only from after the Swedes had walked up to him and questioned him, which was after he himself had gotten up.

    Even if she had been "incapacitated" moments earlier, it is reasonable for him to have not appreciated that fact immediately. She had already been hooking up with him at the party and they had both walked out to the back area to find more privacy. Once he realized it, he got up. He obviously had no intention of committing a sex act on an unconscious person.

    Defense counsel really dropped the ball on this one.

    , @reiner Tor
    @Spmoore8

    But how do we know she had been unconscious right before the Swedes arrived and he got up? I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?

    Neither party remembers anything and there was nobody else to see anything. No videos available either.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @Corvinus

  177. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Spmoore8
    @Anonymous

    The Swedes stopped because she was lying there. She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel. The garbage area is semi enclosed and across the path from the frat, maybe 20 feet. She was partially undressed and he was humping her.

    I'm sure she's embarrassed but she didn't bring the charges. And she is as responsible for her conduct as he is. But she wasn't sexing him when he was unconscious. He was. End of story. The punishment fits the crime.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    The Swedes stopped because she was lying there. She was unconscious to them, campus security, and emergency personnel.

    The Swedes observation that she was unconscious applies only to the point from after the Stanford student had stood up, the Swedes had walked over to him, and had questioned him, “What happened?”

  178. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Spmoore8
    @Anonymous

    She was incapacitated because she passed out. This what everyone testified and it is what the jury believed.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    he was incapacitated because she passed out. This what everyone testified and it is what the jury believed.

    Those observations date only from after the Swedes had walked up to him and questioned him, which was after he himself had gotten up.

    Even if she had been “incapacitated” moments earlier, it is reasonable for him to have not appreciated that fact immediately. She had already been hooking up with him at the party and they had both walked out to the back area to find more privacy. Once he realized it, he got up. He obviously had no intention of committing a sex act on an unconscious person.

    Defense counsel really dropped the ball on this one.

  179. @Threecranes
    A dear friend of mine works at a facility that helps women victims of domestic violence. She has been trained in handling rape cases. She is a professional.

    Her first response to this story was' "No, that is not the face (profile) of the typical rapist. By far and away, most "rape" is committed by persons who are known to the victim. Rape by casual acquaintances account for only 2-3% of all rape."

    Ah, but the article cleverly calls his not the face of a "typical rapist" but what a "campus sexual predator" looks like and that's a horse of a different color. "Campus sexual predator" is a subset of "rapist".

    In the first place, since a majority of males on college campuses are white, then it would not come as a surprise that the face of a typical "campus sexual predator" would be white (if white and black males perpetrated rape at the same rate, which is doubtful). This is just simple proportions.

    Secondly, if rape by casual acquaintance accounts for only 2-3% of all rape annually, and if this case is representative as the authors of the article assert, then how can we square this claim with the one made further on in the article that 1 of 4 women in college experience rape? For such a claim to be true, then women would have to attend college for an average of 10 years! This is (assuming that college women are raped at the same rate as women in the population in general) clearly nonsense.

    Replies: @EH

    “a majority of males on college campuses are white”

    Really? White, “white”, or (((white)))? Ron Unz gave some evidence the whites on campus are largely (((whites))). Het WASP cis-males are are one of the smallest minorities on campus these days, and by far the most underrepresented.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @EH

    Ron Unz only wrote about the Ivies, not the rest of colleges.

    , @Jefferson
    @EH

    "Really? White, “white”, or (((white)))? Ron Unz gave some evidence the whites on campus are largely (((whites))). Het WASP cis-males are are one of the smallest minorities on campus these days, and by far the most underrepresented."

    There is nothing wrong with being (((White))). I am (((White))) because I am not a WASP, I am Italian.

  180. @International Jew
    @Threecranes


    They may swim 10-15 miles a day.
     
    Maybe kilometers. 10K per day is typical. Don't call it "work" either, they like to swim. And workouts include frequent rest.

    Work is doing something you don't like.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    If they’d enjoy it they’d do it voluntarily. If they could get the same results by swimming just 1k per week, they’d cut their workouts accordingly.

    They are probably obsessed about it (mostly about their results and how they can improve) but clearly they don’t enjoy swimming much. Many swimmers don’t swim recreationally after retirement at all, though most overcome this after a while and get back to the pool to coach or at least for recreational swimming.

    workouts include frequent rest.

    Rest doesn’t mean you do whatever you please. For optimal results, you need to think about the workout itself, like playing the movements in your had and think about the next series.

  181. @Spmoore8
    @Anonymous

    She was incapacitated because she passed out. This what everyone testified and it is what the jury believed.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    But how do we know she had been unconscious right before the Swedes arrived and he got up? I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?

    Neither party remembers anything and there was nobody else to see anything. No videos available either.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @reiner Tor

    How many women have to be raped before you agree that Haven Monahan is evil?

    , @Corvinus
    @reiner Tor

    "I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?"

    Better question--How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    "It doesn’t mean her behavior is any different from most other drunk people."

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose. It's called evidence. You don't have to believe what they said, but the jury/judge thought otherwise. That's their call to make in the case.

    Again, the responsibility on him NOT to dry hump some drunk chick, and the culpability is on her NOT to get drunk to get humped by some dude.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

  182. @reiner Tor
    @Spmoore8

    But how do we know she had been unconscious right before the Swedes arrived and he got up? I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?

    Neither party remembers anything and there was nobody else to see anything. No videos available either.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @Corvinus

    How many women have to be raped before you agree that Haven Monahan is evil?

  183. @SPMoore8
    @Simonini

    Again, I know people who have had blackouts, however, they were heavy drinkers. Sometimes I was surprised at when the blackout began (according to them). In this case I find it hard to believe that a woman would go to a party and have no memory of the party or interacting with the guy who assaulted her: that was my main point, there. However, someone else says that she had 4 shots and champagne before even going to the party. That's a different scenario.

    As for consent, I don't really know what the rule is, although I know it is different state by state. However, I have just assumed that a woman who was that drunk couldn't give consent. But I might be wrong about that, in legal terms.

    I'm not out to destroy this kid but sexual assault seems to be very much on the table: she was unresponsive and presumably unconscious when the Swedish bicyclers arrived, and the kid was diddling her, at a minimum. He should have known better. And his own drunkenness should not be a shield for his poor judgment. The alternative is allowing drunken men to have sex with drunken passed out women at parties. That's gross, and that is why it has to be described as a sexual assault, and punished.

    Replies: @TangoMan, @reiner Tor

    However, someone else says that she had 4 shots and champagne before even going to the party. That’s a different scenario.

    That’s not totally impossible then that she doesn’t remember the party at all. But not very likely either, and because she has some reason to feel embarrassed about and so deny any memory of the party, I’m still having my doubts. But yeah, it’s possible then.

    Of course, blacking out only means she wouldn’t have memories the next day. It doesn’t mean her behavior is any different from most other drunk people. Many heavy drinkers (and the woman seems to say that she used to be one at college) often merely appear tipsy, or not even that, and yet they remember nothing.

    Having blacked out doesn’t mean the guy had to know that. He was drunk himself, after all. If he flirted with her and she was responsive and then went out to a dark area (presumably to have sex) and she blacked out during foreplay while he started fingering her, and then at that moment the Swedes arrived, that’s not at all clear there was even a crime.

  184. @Spmoore8
    @Corvinus

    Again, it is against the law to be sexing someone who is "incapacitated." That includes passed out, unconscious, comatose, and severely retarded. Why are we having this debate?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Corvinus, @Jack D

    “Again, it is against the law to be sexing someone who is “incapacitated.” That includes passed out, unconscious, comatose, and severely retarded. Why are we having this debate?”

    Because the male feminists called the manosphere is coming to the defense of their homie. Don’t blame them, that’s exactly what some women do in defense of their girlies.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  185. @Mark2
    @Corvinus

    Jocks (and frat boys and other high status males) hardly have to "take" anything. This is why the idea of rapine college athletes is largely wishful thinking on the part of beta males. Their "victims" were almost always perfectly willing (except retroactively).

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Marcus

    “Jocks (and frat boys and other high status males) hardly have to “take” anything.”

    Not all jocks are “alphas”. We ASSUME they are, but, anecdotally, there were guys in my high school who played three sports, and my friends and I would not call them “lady killers”.

    “This is why the idea of rapine college athletes is largely wishful thinking on the part of beta males.”

    Really. So why is Mr. Sailer harping on black athletes who play football for their propensity to “get me some white girls”? Don’t you know white girls bleed alot?

    “Their “victims” were almost always perfectly willing (except retroactively).”

    Another Roissy acolyte. They are coming out of the woodwork. You don’t know that they are “almost perfectly willing”. You assume, which these days gets you in trouble.

  186. @Wanderer
    @Corvinus

    Again, the lessons is for both men and women NOT to get drunk to the point that consent could be cast into doubt when trousers or bloomers are lowered as a seemingly innocuous invitation for pleasure.

    Why do you blame the victims so much you sexist?

    Besides, women have no agency, so they can not be expected to be concerned about the consequences of their actions.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Why do you blame the victims so much you sexist?”

    [Laughs] your dig at me means absolutely nothing to me. Haven’t you heard, all white males are sexist!

    “Besides, women have no agency, so they can not be expected to be concerned about the consequences of their actions.”

    Just stop. Men and women BOTH make their choices of their own free will. For you to think that women are unconcerned about the ramifications of the conduct, you’re an idiot.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @Corvinus

    Except you were seeking to speak out of both sides of your mouth.

    Out of one side of your mouth you sought to make the younger individual (the male) responsible for his actions and not the older individual (the female), then out of the other side of your mouth you tried to appear even handed.

    Of course, one can say that he should have anticipated that his behavior might have been less than exemplary after consuming that much alcohol, but that comes with the builtin assumption that only males have agency ...

    My suggestion for all parents with male children these days is simply avoid sending their sons to college because they are virulently anti-male. I suggest that they concentrate on getting on-line degrees.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  187. @reiner Tor
    @Spmoore8

    But how do we know she had been unconscious right before the Swedes arrived and he got up? I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?

    Neither party remembers anything and there was nobody else to see anything. No videos available either.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @Corvinus

    “I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?”

    Better question–How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    “It doesn’t mean her behavior is any different from most other drunk people.”

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose. It’s called evidence. You don’t have to believe what they said, but the jury/judge thought otherwise. That’s their call to make in the case.

    Again, the responsibility on him NOT to dry hump some drunk chick, and the culpability is on her NOT to get drunk to get humped by some dude.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    “I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?”

    Better question–How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    We do not know for CERTAIN, but all the EVIDENCE we have is CONSISTENT with her not having been unconscious when she was unconscious.

    There is ample and reasonable doubt about these accusations.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    Again, the responsibility on him NOT to dry hump some drunk chick

    Really? People should be imprisoned for dry humping while drunk?

    , @reiner Tor
    @Corvinus


    How do YOU know she was not unconscious?
     
    I don't know. She could well have been. But it looks like she went on her own legs out of her own volition to behind the dumpster. Or did he drag her there?

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose.
     
    During the party? Hardly. The testimony is about when (after) the Swedes arrived.

    Yet she claimed not to have remembered anything about the party before. I've had similar experiences (though with one exception I always had some blurred memories about at least the clubs or places I visited), and people who met me could only tell me later I was visibly drunk. I've had a friend who habitually blacked out and hardly remembered anything, and yet many people characterized him during these evenings as barely tipsy!

    Replies: @Corvinus

  188. @anon
    Lost in this commentary is that the girls' mother drove them to the party (according to this article: http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2016/03/18/alleged-victim-testifies-in-brock-turner-trial).

    The daughter who was assaulted had four shots and a glass of champagne (can't find the article, but it was a significant amount regardless) at home. What sort of parent drives drunk daughters to a party?

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Due to a lack of disposable income and the price of cocktails, youngsters “pregame” booze quite a bit these days.

    • Replies: @guest
    @Brutusale

    They were going to a party, not a bar. The question was about the parent, not the drunks, anyway.

    Replies: @Brutusale

  189. @anon
    @Anonymous

    She may well have had a secluded experience at college away from the sport scholarship dudes (is this guy one of those?) but I'm talking about her as a journalist not an SJW.

    "Not knowing" is not a valid argument for the media as they deliberately bury cases that don't fit their relentlessly anti-white narrative while pushing things that do - which this is just another example of.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    I doubt a program like Stanford Swimming would have any walk-ons.

  190. Just out of curiosity – had exactly the same interaction taken place two years earlier, when he was 16 and she was 21, would she have been guilty of sexual exploitation of a minor?

  191. Oh, and while I’m at it, suppose this had been a *gay* interaction, involving two men – all else being equal? Is there any chance whatsoever that the 18 year old star swimmer would be in any trouble at all at the hands of the vengeful 23 year old chicken hawk?

    Well, anything’s possible, these days, but I tend to think not. I tend to think that the 23 year old’s only regret would be that he was too drunk to remember every luscious detail of the encounter.

    In the immortal words of ‘enry ‘iggins: why can’t women be more like men?

  192. @PiltdownMan
    @Marcus


    Jonsson doesn’t look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?
     


    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the "Black Irish" they do exist. It's more common to find that type in Norway though. There's some speculation that this has something to do with an influx of Walloons in the 17th century into Scandinavia. And Swedes do tan quite dark, unlike, say, the gingers of Scotland.

    There are, of course, contemporary admixtures but Jonsson does not appear to be one of those.

    Replies: @Marcus, @Jefferson, @snorlax

    Maybe he’s part Lapp/Sami?

  193. @Mark2
    @Corvinus

    Jocks (and frat boys and other high status males) hardly have to "take" anything. This is why the idea of rapine college athletes is largely wishful thinking on the part of beta males. Their "victims" were almost always perfectly willing (except retroactively).

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Marcus

    Really? Seems like universities covering for assaults by football players is rather routine.

  194. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus
    @reiner Tor

    "I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?"

    Better question--How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    "It doesn’t mean her behavior is any different from most other drunk people."

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose. It's called evidence. You don't have to believe what they said, but the jury/judge thought otherwise. That's their call to make in the case.

    Again, the responsibility on him NOT to dry hump some drunk chick, and the culpability is on her NOT to get drunk to get humped by some dude.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    “I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?”

    Better question–How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    We do not know for CERTAIN, but all the EVIDENCE we have is CONSISTENT with her not having been unconscious when she was unconscious.

    There is ample and reasonable doubt about these accusations.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Anonymous

    "There is ample and reasonable doubt about these accusations."

    The money shot is that she was behind the dumpster incapacitated and two witnesses bore that out. He ran away as a result of being discovered. No reasonable doubt from the jury's perspective.

    "Really? People should be imprisoned for dry humping while drunk?"

    That's not what I said. Consider my entire discussion in context.

  195. @Corvinus
    @reiner Tor

    "I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?"

    Better question--How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    "It doesn’t mean her behavior is any different from most other drunk people."

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose. It's called evidence. You don't have to believe what they said, but the jury/judge thought otherwise. That's their call to make in the case.

    Again, the responsibility on him NOT to dry hump some drunk chick, and the culpability is on her NOT to get drunk to get humped by some dude.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    Again, the responsibility on him NOT to dry hump some drunk chick

    Really? People should be imprisoned for dry humping while drunk?

  196. @EH
    @Threecranes

    "a majority of males on college campuses are white"

    Really? White, "white", or (((white)))? Ron Unz gave some evidence the whites on campus are largely (((whites))). Het WASP cis-males are are one of the smallest minorities on campus these days, and by far the most underrepresented.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Jefferson

    Ron Unz only wrote about the Ivies, not the rest of colleges.

  197. @Corvinus
    @reiner Tor

    "I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?"

    Better question--How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    "It doesn’t mean her behavior is any different from most other drunk people."

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose. It's called evidence. You don't have to believe what they said, but the jury/judge thought otherwise. That's their call to make in the case.

    Again, the responsibility on him NOT to dry hump some drunk chick, and the culpability is on her NOT to get drunk to get humped by some dude.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @reiner Tor

    How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    I don’t know. She could well have been. But it looks like she went on her own legs out of her own volition to behind the dumpster. Or did he drag her there?

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose.

    During the party? Hardly. The testimony is about when (after) the Swedes arrived.

    Yet she claimed not to have remembered anything about the party before. I’ve had similar experiences (though with one exception I always had some blurred memories about at least the clubs or places I visited), and people who met me could only tell me later I was visibly drunk. I’ve had a friend who habitually blacked out and hardly remembered anything, and yet many people characterized him during these evenings as barely tipsy!

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @reiner Tor

    "The testimony is about when (after) the Swedes arrived."

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    "Yet she claimed not to have remembered anything about the party before."

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Wanderer

  198. To summerize my position: girl walks drunk with drunk guy to behind the dumpster. Some time later the Swedes arrive. In between the two, the girl passes out. Also, sometime between the arrival behind the dumpster the guy fingers the girl. It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived. It’s also crucial what he was doing when the Swedes arrived. Was he still fingering her? Or was he merely trying to wake her up to continue?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @reiner Tor

    Or maybe my knowledge of the case is superficial. Please anybody correct my errors if my facts are wrong.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SPMoore8

    , @Vinay
    @reiner Tor

    "It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived."

    It's precisely to avoid all this uncertainty that it's assumed that girls drunk to the point of coma can't give informed consent, no matter what they say. Not sure whether it's codified into law but it doesn't matter. In effect, society and the jury will treat it that way.

    So, for example, this case didn't center around whether he fingered her before or after she passed out. The prosecution introduced evidence that she left a totally incoherent voicemail on her boyfriend's phone and that indicated she was in no position to give consent.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @reiner Tor

    It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived. It’s also crucial what he was doing when the Swedes arrived.

    Isn't it also crucial to know whether he could reasonably have perceived her to have NOT been incapacitated?

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  199. @reiner Tor
    To summerize my position: girl walks drunk with drunk guy to behind the dumpster. Some time later the Swedes arrive. In between the two, the girl passes out. Also, sometime between the arrival behind the dumpster the guy fingers the girl. It's crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived. It's also crucial what he was doing when the Swedes arrived. Was he still fingering her? Or was he merely trying to wake her up to continue?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Vinay, @Anonymous

    Or maybe my knowledge of the case is superficial. Please anybody correct my errors if my facts are wrong.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @reiner Tor

    Or maybe my knowledge of the case is superficial. Please anybody correct my errors if my facts are wrong.

    it is probably inaccurate to state that the location they were hooking up was "behind the dumpster." The story that Swedes gave was that they observed them from afar before walking up to them after Brock stood up. So either they had a pretty clear line of sight or the reliability of what they claim to have witnessed is suspect.

    , @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    I don't think there's anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty. As it happens, the jury thought he was guilty on all three counts, including the count that he would in fact have raped the woman if the Swedes hadn't stopped him (intent to rape). However, the judge mitigated the implications of those guilty verdicts by setting a relatively light sentence.

    This is what happens in jury trials. Sometimes you get verdict that makes sense to you, and sometimes you don't. This one made sense to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

  200. @reiner Tor
    To summerize my position: girl walks drunk with drunk guy to behind the dumpster. Some time later the Swedes arrive. In between the two, the girl passes out. Also, sometime between the arrival behind the dumpster the guy fingers the girl. It's crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived. It's also crucial what he was doing when the Swedes arrived. Was he still fingering her? Or was he merely trying to wake her up to continue?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Vinay, @Anonymous

    “It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived.”

    It’s precisely to avoid all this uncertainty that it’s assumed that girls drunk to the point of coma can’t give informed consent, no matter what they say. Not sure whether it’s codified into law but it doesn’t matter. In effect, society and the jury will treat it that way.

    So, for example, this case didn’t center around whether he fingered her before or after she passed out. The prosecution introduced evidence that she left a totally incoherent voicemail on her boyfriend’s phone and that indicated she was in no position to give consent.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Vinay

    It’s precisely to avoid all this uncertainty that it’s assumed that girls drunk to the point of coma can’t give informed consent,

    Was the audio entered into evidence? Loud party, people drinking - easily describe that as incoherent by someone speaking from memory only and with an ax to grind.

    Of course, someone alert enough to think of her boyfriend, to dial his number, and to recognize the tone when to leave a message might reasonably be viewed as NOT incapacitated by a stranger in a party setting.

    , @Jack D
    @Vinay

    But, conveniently, the laws are written in a way that being drunk does NOT relieve boys of legal responsibility. So if two equally drunk people have sex, the male has committed a crime and the female hasn't, even if she got drunk purposely in order to lower her inhibitions and pick up a man. Perhaps this is the law, but that doesn't make it right.

    , @Anonymous
    @Vinay

    The prosecution introduced evidence that she left a totally incoherent voicemail on her boyfriend’s phone and that indicated she was in no position to give consent.

    Was the audio played for the jury? If it wasn't, what happened to it? These days, voicemails are automatically stored and besides he would have had reason to actively preserve it at least by the next day - and earlier if he heard it and it was so incoherent as to raise any concern.

  201. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor
    @reiner Tor

    Or maybe my knowledge of the case is superficial. Please anybody correct my errors if my facts are wrong.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SPMoore8

    Or maybe my knowledge of the case is superficial. Please anybody correct my errors if my facts are wrong.

    it is probably inaccurate to state that the location they were hooking up was “behind the dumpster.” The story that Swedes gave was that they observed them from afar before walking up to them after Brock stood up. So either they had a pretty clear line of sight or the reliability of what they claim to have witnessed is suspect.

  202. @reiner Tor
    To summerize my position: girl walks drunk with drunk guy to behind the dumpster. Some time later the Swedes arrive. In between the two, the girl passes out. Also, sometime between the arrival behind the dumpster the guy fingers the girl. It's crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived. It's also crucial what he was doing when the Swedes arrived. Was he still fingering her? Or was he merely trying to wake her up to continue?

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Vinay, @Anonymous

    It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived. It’s also crucial what he was doing when the Swedes arrived.

    Isn’t it also crucial to know whether he could reasonably have perceived her to have NOT been incapacitated?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Anonymous

    Not being incapacitated is the default assumption we make when the other person is able to walk. It's unreasonable to expect otherwise.

  203. @reiner Tor
    @reiner Tor

    Or maybe my knowledge of the case is superficial. Please anybody correct my errors if my facts are wrong.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @SPMoore8

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty. As it happens, the jury thought he was guilty on all three counts, including the count that he would in fact have raped the woman if the Swedes hadn’t stopped him (intent to rape). However, the judge mitigated the implications of those guilty verdicts by setting a relatively light sentence.

    This is what happens in jury trials. Sometimes you get verdict that makes sense to you, and sometimes you don’t. This one made sense to me.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @SPMoore8

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty.

    If you believe it would also have been reasonable doubt to find him not guilty, then you must believe the jury was wrong.

    , @Anonymous
    @SPMoore8

    CORRECTED POST:

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty.

    If you believe it also would have been reasonable to find him not guilty, then you must conclude that the jury verdict was wrong.

    , @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    People (especially feminists) are making it sound as if this guy got off "lightly" for the supposedly heinous crimes that he committed, but in reality, his life is ruined. Shrill hags like Petula would not be satisfied unless he got 40 years to life and was castrated, but if you look at this in a clear headed way, his entire life and promising future was destroyed, as his father said, for 20 minutes of pleasure, 'cause he fingered a young woman who, had she been a little less drunk, would have been eager to be diddled by this fine young specimen, who indeed had gone out that evening seeking just such an experience, for doing nothing more than thousands of other couples have done. Supposedly, the left wanted to get the government out of the bedroom, but as usual it's all who- whom with them. If it weren't for double standards, they wouldn't have any at all.

    As I said before, he deserves punishment not for what he did but for doing it in such a stupid way as to risk getting caught (but not life ruining punishment as he received - the six months in county is the least of it). So the sage advice "get a room" applies.

    Replies: @Wanderer

    , @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8

    But how could you arrive at the conclusion that the guilty verdict made sense unless you disputed my facts? My facts leave plenty of room for reasonable doubt.

  204. Did Stanford allow alcohol to be served on campus to individuals under the age of 21?

  205. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    I don't think there's anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty. As it happens, the jury thought he was guilty on all three counts, including the count that he would in fact have raped the woman if the Swedes hadn't stopped him (intent to rape). However, the judge mitigated the implications of those guilty verdicts by setting a relatively light sentence.

    This is what happens in jury trials. Sometimes you get verdict that makes sense to you, and sometimes you don't. This one made sense to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty.

    If you believe it would also have been reasonable doubt to find him not guilty, then you must believe the jury was wrong.

  206. @Corvinus
    @Wanderer

    "Why do you blame the victims so much you sexist?"

    [Laughs] your dig at me means absolutely nothing to me. Haven't you heard, all white males are sexist!

    "Besides, women have no agency, so they can not be expected to be concerned about the consequences of their actions."

    Just stop. Men and women BOTH make their choices of their own free will. For you to think that women are unconcerned about the ramifications of the conduct, you're an idiot.

    Replies: @Wanderer

    Except you were seeking to speak out of both sides of your mouth.

    Out of one side of your mouth you sought to make the younger individual (the male) responsible for his actions and not the older individual (the female), then out of the other side of your mouth you tried to appear even handed.

    Of course, one can say that he should have anticipated that his behavior might have been less than exemplary after consuming that much alcohol, but that comes with the builtin assumption that only males have agency …

    My suggestion for all parents with male children these days is simply avoid sending their sons to college because they are virulently anti-male. I suggest that they concentrate on getting on-line degrees.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Wanderer

    “Out of one side of your mouth you sought to make the younger individual (the male) responsible for his actions and not the older individual (the female)...”

    Here is the key part here...she was incapacitated as defined by the law--passed out or awake but too high or drunk to know what he or she is doing or to control their behavior. He was prosecuted and found guilty.

    I keep hearing that men are more rational and more under control than women, especially given how “rape culture” has exploded onto the scene within the past decade. You would think that he would have known not to put himself in this position. He deservedly goes to prison. Lesson learned.

    I keep hearing that women are wary of “predator men” on college campuses, especially given how “rape culture” has exploded on the scene within the past decade. You would think that she would have known not to put herself in this position. She deservedly will have psychological issues the rest of her life. Lesson learned.

    “Of course, one can say that he should have anticipated that his behavior might have been less than exemplary after consuming that much alcohol, but that comes with the built in assumption that only males have agency.”

    Corrected for accuracy --> Men and women have agency.

    “My suggestion for all parents with male children these days is simply avoid sending their sons to college because they are virulently anti-male. I suggest that they concentrate on getting on-line degrees.”

    That’s what beta males say. Here is advice for parents--teach their sons and daughters that if they consumer alcohol to the point of blacking out, the risk is greater that you will engage in, knowingly or unknowingly, illegal conduct that will have direct ramifications on your life.

  207. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    I don't think there's anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty. As it happens, the jury thought he was guilty on all three counts, including the count that he would in fact have raped the woman if the Swedes hadn't stopped him (intent to rape). However, the judge mitigated the implications of those guilty verdicts by setting a relatively light sentence.

    This is what happens in jury trials. Sometimes you get verdict that makes sense to you, and sometimes you don't. This one made sense to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

    CORRECTED POST:

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty.

    If you believe it also would have been reasonable to find him not guilty, then you must conclude that the jury verdict was wrong.

  208. @Corvinus
    @Threecranes

    "For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss."

    Attention, everyone, we have spotted a Roissy syncophant. You have a wild imagination. Do you prefer your women to be incoherent? That would make it easier for you to escalate their buying temperature.

    "He then, thinking that he’d earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her–remember, there was no penetration–at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing."

    Right, seeing a women who has no clue where she is, with a guy running away from the situation. How Beta of him.

    "As I said in another post, which Steve hasn’t let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, “How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?”

    Not HAD, COULD. You make the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend, that she had to make up the whole story. Except she had blacked out and was laying there motionless. Is that how you work yourself into a lather with the ladies during kino?

    "Don’t underestimate women as adversaries. They’re infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term."

    And don't overestimate some men who get their jollies using their jockdom to take what they want. They're infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men and women understand what it all entails.

    Replies: @Mark2, @Threecranes, @Saint Louis

    You say Donatello makes the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend. But it’s a pretty good assumption. It’s clear that at a minimum they were grinding at the party.

    I know I wouldn’t be too happy to discover my girlfriend had been dry-humping (which is really all grinding is) some dude in public. That’s why I lean toward Donatello’s view that she was trying to cover her ass.

    Ultimately, we don’t really know what happened, and that is precisely why he should have been acquitted, with the presumption of innocence and reasonable doubt and whatnot.

    I think the judge realized this was a miscarriage of justice and sentenced accordingly. Imagine if he had issued a JNOV.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Saint Louis

    “You say Donatello makes the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend. But it’s a pretty good assumption. It’s clear that at a minimum they were grinding at the party.”

    

Was this fact borne out during testimony? Otherwise, it’s NOT clear.

    “I know I wouldn’t be too happy to discover my girlfriend had been dry-humping (which is really all grinding is) some dude in public. That’s why I lean toward Donatello’s view that she was trying to cover her ass.”

    Likewise, I’m sure your girlfriend wouldn’t be too happy to discover that you had been dry-humping some chick public, right? Or do guys have the agency to take any women they want?

    “Ultimately, we don’t really know what happened, and that is precisely why he should have been acquitted, with the presumption of innocence and reasonable doubt and whatnot.”



    Yes, we don’t know what truly happened, but the jury found him guilty based on the available facts of the case. They felt the prosecutor made his case. That is how the justice system works.

  209. Marty [AKA "coot veal or cot deal"] says:
    @Tony
    @Marty

    "And by the way, it’s pathetic that a guy with Turner’s looks would have to force himself on anyone."

    Please, the guy is pretty dicky looking. Though they might find him kind of attractive in jail. He definitely needs to be put in P.C. (Protective Custody aka Punk City) or he's gonna be more than digitally penetrated.

    Replies: @Spmoore8, @Marty

    Well, to my eyes he’s kind of a blend of George Peppard and Steve McQueen, a combination few women would be able resist, though I admit his inviting smile might not be quite “bad boy” enough. By the way, you underestimate the physicality of swimmers. In the late ’90s at Cal, 4 members of the swimming or water polo team showed up to play in an otherwise all-black noontime basketball game. They wiped the floor with the brothers, then strode out, never to be seen again. They had a couple inches on the homies, but still quite a spectacle.

  210. Through a column at the Irish Savant I followed a link to Stanley Kubrik’s movie Eye’s Wide Shut and through this, to Alex Whatshisnuts site where he is interviewing Oliver Stone’s son about the symbolism in the movie. Stone was most interesting and in particular when he talked about the Form in which the alleged atavistic, Lucifer-conjuring rituals take place.

    The purpose of these rituals is to focus and consolidate the power of Will so as to enable the participants to accomplish deeds in this world, the realm of Lucifer. The participants include powerful members of America’s political and commercial establishment.

    Key elements were 1) ritualized sex which brought forth and focused the Libido or life energy. 2) invoking a Jinn, which is a type of spiritual being whose aid enables the magician to carry out his desires. The Jinn can be dealt with. One can bargain and make deals with him. 3) use of certain geometric symbols that serve as aids to focus the powers of Mind and 4) a sacrifice of some sort.

    This description is brief, rough and incomplete, but gives an idea as to what’s going on.

    So let’s use this framework to analyze the media-labeled “rape” event at Stanford.

    The ulterior aim, the Formal Cause, is to undermine the power of white men in America, and European men in general. This is the end sought, which is not transcendental, but here and now, in this realm, Lucifer’s domain. Emasculation. Castration.

    The means used is the tangential issue of Women’s Rights with respect to deciding who gets to determine what constitutes appropriate and inappropriate sex. The means will leave men uncertain and hesitant,–literal limp dicks because of fear of doing something morally and legally wrong.

    So, sexual energy has been summoned in service of the magicians methods. #1 accomplished.

    The Jinn invoked is the God of Justice–the State’s legal system–who is called in by the forces backing the woman victim, as a supposedly impartial referee. #2 accomplished

    The geometric symbol is the dumpster. Although the event obviously took place in a wooded glade, as evidenced by the alleged victims description of pine needles on her clothes, the practitioners of Magic focus our attention on the rectilinear dumpster as an image of degradation. #3 accomplished

    The sacrifice, it almost goes without saying, is the Stanford swimmer. He has been demasked, his true nature revealed, not as the golden boy, but as a criminal rapist, his face literally, the face of a sexual predator. A blood-thirsty God of Justice is licking his lips and rubbing his palms together in anticipation of devouring this offering. #4 accomplished

    This is the blueprint by which our leaders manipulate society in the direction which they decide. A moment’s reflection will confirm that virtually every social movement since say 1958 has used the promise of easy gratification of some sensual desire as it’s alluring bait. The promise of easy, guiltless, consequent-less sex, of liberating drug induced highs, “freedom” for blacks, looting during rioting, etc. Some easy, immediate cathartic gratification is offered that tempts with the prospect of release from care and worry.

    Libido is mustered, a Jinn is invoked to guide events, a focus is provided by some convenient symbol, and a sacrificial victim is offered up–works every time.

  211. @Spmoore8
    @Corvinus

    Again, it is against the law to be sexing someone who is "incapacitated." That includes passed out, unconscious, comatose, and severely retarded. Why are we having this debate?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Corvinus, @Jack D

    There are a lot of things that are against the law that go on every day, but only a few people get caught and have their lives ruined. In California, the age of consent is 18. How many 16 and 17 year olds (and younger) have broken this law? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Ditto marijuana laws – how many millions of people have broken these laws?

    Fundamentally, this kid’s mistake was having sex in a public place. Had they gone somewhere private, then they would have done their thing, she would have woken up in the morning and remembered nothing and that would have been that, especially if he was nice to her in the morning. With this girl’s drinking habits, the chances are high that has already happened to her a number of times. But no, idiot has to rut like a dog in public. The girl wakes up surrounded by police and nurses taking rape kits and her concerned parents, etc. so she has no choice but to view this as a rape rather than just something that happens once in a while (OK, most weekends) when she drinks too much. He deserves what happened to him, but for being stupid, not for what he did, which is no different than what happens on campus every night.

    Regarding “incapacitation” – unless he dragged her behind the dumpster, she got there more or less on her own two feet. He was almost as equally drunk as she was and in the excitement of the moment could hardly be expected to notice whether she drifted off at some point. The feminist ideal where you are supposed to get written consent every step of the way and every thirty seconds thereafter bears no relation to actual human drunken sex. In the midst of a coupling at 2 or 3 x over the legal limit for BAC the pair are operating on a chimp or maybe even a lizard level and are not going to observe any legal niceties.

  212. @PiltdownMan
    @Marcus


    Jonsson doesn’t look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?
     


    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the "Black Irish" they do exist. It's more common to find that type in Norway though. There's some speculation that this has something to do with an influx of Walloons in the 17th century into Scandinavia. And Swedes do tan quite dark, unlike, say, the gingers of Scotland.

    There are, of course, contemporary admixtures but Jonsson does not appear to be one of those.

    Replies: @Marcus, @Jefferson, @snorlax

    “Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the “Black Irish” they do exist.”

    In your opinion, what percentage of Native Indigeneous Swedes do not look “stereotypically” Swede?

  213. @EH
    @Threecranes

    "a majority of males on college campuses are white"

    Really? White, "white", or (((white)))? Ron Unz gave some evidence the whites on campus are largely (((whites))). Het WASP cis-males are are one of the smallest minorities on campus these days, and by far the most underrepresented.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Jefferson

    “Really? White, “white”, or (((white)))? Ron Unz gave some evidence the whites on campus are largely (((whites))). Het WASP cis-males are are one of the smallest minorities on campus these days, and by far the most underrepresented.”

    There is nothing wrong with being (((White))). I am (((White))) because I am not a WASP, I am Italian.

  214. @anon
    @donut

    Doesn't surprise me at all. The show is truthful and therefore is by its very nature very politically incorrect. It truly shows THE COLOR OF CRIME. I am actually quite surprised it has been on the air as long as it has.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob

  215. I can say from personal experience that it’s possible.

    Seconded. More than once.

  216. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Vinay
    @reiner Tor

    "It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived."

    It's precisely to avoid all this uncertainty that it's assumed that girls drunk to the point of coma can't give informed consent, no matter what they say. Not sure whether it's codified into law but it doesn't matter. In effect, society and the jury will treat it that way.

    So, for example, this case didn't center around whether he fingered her before or after she passed out. The prosecution introduced evidence that she left a totally incoherent voicemail on her boyfriend's phone and that indicated she was in no position to give consent.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Anonymous

    It’s precisely to avoid all this uncertainty that it’s assumed that girls drunk to the point of coma can’t give informed consent,

    Was the audio entered into evidence? Loud party, people drinking – easily describe that as incoherent by someone speaking from memory only and with an ax to grind.

    Of course, someone alert enough to think of her boyfriend, to dial his number, and to recognize the tone when to leave a message might reasonably be viewed as NOT incapacitated by a stranger in a party setting.

  217. @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    I don't think there's anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty. As it happens, the jury thought he was guilty on all three counts, including the count that he would in fact have raped the woman if the Swedes hadn't stopped him (intent to rape). However, the judge mitigated the implications of those guilty verdicts by setting a relatively light sentence.

    This is what happens in jury trials. Sometimes you get verdict that makes sense to you, and sometimes you don't. This one made sense to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

    People (especially feminists) are making it sound as if this guy got off “lightly” for the supposedly heinous crimes that he committed, but in reality, his life is ruined. Shrill hags like Petula would not be satisfied unless he got 40 years to life and was castrated, but if you look at this in a clear headed way, his entire life and promising future was destroyed, as his father said, for 20 minutes of pleasure, ’cause he fingered a young woman who, had she been a little less drunk, would have been eager to be diddled by this fine young specimen, who indeed had gone out that evening seeking just such an experience, for doing nothing more than thousands of other couples have done. Supposedly, the left wanted to get the government out of the bedroom, but as usual it’s all who- whom with them. If it weren’t for double standards, they wouldn’t have any at all.

    As I said before, he deserves punishment not for what he did but for doing it in such a stupid way as to risk getting caught (but not life ruining punishment as he received – the six months in county is the least of it). So the sage advice “get a room” applies.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @Jack D

    Not only that, but in my opinion, young women collectivly are using this as a talisman to ward off the threat of rape by men of color.

    Won't work, of course.

    Replies: @Jack D

  218. @Vinay
    @reiner Tor

    "It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived."

    It's precisely to avoid all this uncertainty that it's assumed that girls drunk to the point of coma can't give informed consent, no matter what they say. Not sure whether it's codified into law but it doesn't matter. In effect, society and the jury will treat it that way.

    So, for example, this case didn't center around whether he fingered her before or after she passed out. The prosecution introduced evidence that she left a totally incoherent voicemail on her boyfriend's phone and that indicated she was in no position to give consent.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Anonymous

    But, conveniently, the laws are written in a way that being drunk does NOT relieve boys of legal responsibility. So if two equally drunk people have sex, the male has committed a crime and the female hasn’t, even if she got drunk purposely in order to lower her inhibitions and pick up a man. Perhaps this is the law, but that doesn’t make it right.

  219. @Anonymous
    @reiner Tor

    It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived. It’s also crucial what he was doing when the Swedes arrived.

    Isn't it also crucial to know whether he could reasonably have perceived her to have NOT been incapacitated?

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Not being incapacitated is the default assumption we make when the other person is able to walk. It’s unreasonable to expect otherwise.

  220. @Jack D
    @SPMoore8

    People (especially feminists) are making it sound as if this guy got off "lightly" for the supposedly heinous crimes that he committed, but in reality, his life is ruined. Shrill hags like Petula would not be satisfied unless he got 40 years to life and was castrated, but if you look at this in a clear headed way, his entire life and promising future was destroyed, as his father said, for 20 minutes of pleasure, 'cause he fingered a young woman who, had she been a little less drunk, would have been eager to be diddled by this fine young specimen, who indeed had gone out that evening seeking just such an experience, for doing nothing more than thousands of other couples have done. Supposedly, the left wanted to get the government out of the bedroom, but as usual it's all who- whom with them. If it weren't for double standards, they wouldn't have any at all.

    As I said before, he deserves punishment not for what he did but for doing it in such a stupid way as to risk getting caught (but not life ruining punishment as he received - the six months in county is the least of it). So the sage advice "get a room" applies.

    Replies: @Wanderer

    Not only that, but in my opinion, young women collectivly are using this as a talisman to ward off the threat of rape by men of color.

    Won’t work, of course.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Wanderer

    If you look at the thousands threats that have now been made to the judge, to the people who wrote character references, to the father, etc. it's clear that a lynch mob mentality has developed.

    In the old South lynch mobs were a way of whites reasserting their authority over blacks after they had gone on a crime spree during Reconstruction and evening the score for all the unpunished crimes that had happened. Whether the guy you strung up was really guilty or not was less important than the fear that it was intended to introduce pour encourager les autres.

    The intention here is to put the fear of God into men by a powerful female mob and to exact symbolic punishment against all the men who have gotten away with rape in the past. Whether the guy that they string up is really guilty of rape is secondary.

    Of course you can't go after protected classes like blacks so women's fear of being raped, their desire for revenge against rapists, etc. has to be displaced onto a socially acceptable scapegoat and who is more socially acceptable as a target than a smug white man?

    Replies: @Corvinus

  221. @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    I don't think there's anything wrong with your grasp of the facts: after all, he was on trial and he could have been found not guilty as well as guilty. As it happens, the jury thought he was guilty on all three counts, including the count that he would in fact have raped the woman if the Swedes hadn't stopped him (intent to rape). However, the judge mitigated the implications of those guilty verdicts by setting a relatively light sentence.

    This is what happens in jury trials. Sometimes you get verdict that makes sense to you, and sometimes you don't. This one made sense to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @reiner Tor

    But how could you arrive at the conclusion that the guilty verdict made sense unless you disputed my facts? My facts leave plenty of room for reasonable doubt.

  222. @Threecranes
    @Corvinus

    For all you (and she) know(s), he may have fingered her to a throbbing, earth-shaking orgasm after which she immediately nodded off in post coital bliss. He then, thinking that he'd earned at least some satisfaction, begins grinding against her--remember, there was no penetration--at which time the calvary shows up and misjudges the entire thing.

    As I said in another post, which Steve hasn't let through, when she woke up in the hospital and finally realized what was going on, she had to be thinking to herself, "How do I explain to my boyfriend and parents that I met a guy at this party, got drunk and had sex with him, and wound up here because I passed out?"

    Hey, at that point claiming that you had nothing to do with it, that it was all done to you, looks like a pretty good option.

    Don't underestimate women as adversaries. They're infinitely resourceful and have absolutely no respect for the Truth as men understand the term.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D

    It’s more than just quick thinking about how to cover this up (though that might have happened too – a lot of these “rape” accusations are made by girls who are later pressured by their parents, boyfriends, etc. when they find out, sometimes months later).

    When my kids were little, sometime they would fall down, as little kids do. If you ran up to them with a look of shock and horror on your face as if they had just severed a limb, they would burst into hysterical tears, but if you came over and laughed and brushed them off, they would go about their business as if nothing happened. The way we experience an event is highly subjective – if you have all kinds of shrill harridans telling you that you are the victim of a heinous crime, then you feel like the victim of a heinous crime. If you read the woman’s victim statement, that’s exactly what happened to her. If OTOH, the couple had done exactly the same thing, but in privacy, and the next morning Brock had been nice to her when she woke up, she would have made some jokes about having had too much the night before and that would have been it.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Jack D


    The way we experience an event is highly subjective – if you have all kinds of shrill harridans telling you that you are the victim of a heinous crime, then you feel like the victim of a heinous crime.
     
    Exactly. And she probably conflates all the bad things (like the no doubt serious hangover) into one Big Bad Experience: The Rape.
  223. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Vinay
    @reiner Tor

    "It’s crucial when the girl passed out, how many minutes before the Swedes arrived."

    It's precisely to avoid all this uncertainty that it's assumed that girls drunk to the point of coma can't give informed consent, no matter what they say. Not sure whether it's codified into law but it doesn't matter. In effect, society and the jury will treat it that way.

    So, for example, this case didn't center around whether he fingered her before or after she passed out. The prosecution introduced evidence that she left a totally incoherent voicemail on her boyfriend's phone and that indicated she was in no position to give consent.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Anonymous

    The prosecution introduced evidence that she left a totally incoherent voicemail on her boyfriend’s phone and that indicated she was in no position to give consent.

    Was the audio played for the jury? If it wasn’t, what happened to it? These days, voicemails are automatically stored and besides he would have had reason to actively preserve it at least by the next day – and earlier if he heard it and it was so incoherent as to raise any concern.

  224. @Wanderer
    @Jack D

    Not only that, but in my opinion, young women collectivly are using this as a talisman to ward off the threat of rape by men of color.

    Won't work, of course.

    Replies: @Jack D

    If you look at the thousands threats that have now been made to the judge, to the people who wrote character references, to the father, etc. it’s clear that a lynch mob mentality has developed.

    In the old South lynch mobs were a way of whites reasserting their authority over blacks after they had gone on a crime spree during Reconstruction and evening the score for all the unpunished crimes that had happened. Whether the guy you strung up was really guilty or not was less important than the fear that it was intended to introduce pour encourager les autres.

    The intention here is to put the fear of God into men by a powerful female mob and to exact symbolic punishment against all the men who have gotten away with rape in the past. Whether the guy that they string up is really guilty of rape is secondary.

    Of course you can’t go after protected classes like blacks so women’s fear of being raped, their desire for revenge against rapists, etc. has to be displaced onto a socially acceptable scapegoat and who is more socially acceptable as a target than a smug white man?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “There are a lot of things that are against the law that go on every day, but only a few people get caught and have their lives ruined. In California, the age of consent is 18. How many 16 and 17 year olds (and younger) have broken this law? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Ditto marijuana laws – how many millions of people have broken these laws?”

    Thanks, older brother.

    “Fundamentally, this kid’s mistake was having sex in a public place. Had they gone somewhere private, then they would have done their thing, she would have woken up in the morning and remembered nothing and that would have been that, especially if he was nice to her in the morning.”

    And how do YOU know this for certain??? Moreover, the mistake was made by both the man and woman to get silly drunk and put themselves in harm’s way. Moreover, it does not matter had he “taken her” in a private place, she was incapacitated as defined by the law. He would still be subject to potential prosecution.

    “With this girl’s drinking habits, the chances are high that has already happened to her a number of times.”

    What are her drinking habits? Was that borne out during testimony?

    “But no, idiot has to rut like a dog in public.”



    So, guy and girl get drunk. Both lack the ability to properly reason. Girl is unconscious. Guy can “rut” girl in public or private. No harm, no foul, right? I mean, they are both drunk. They both have no culpability. There probably was consent.

    Is that why you have such a high notch count?

    “The girl wakes up surrounded by police and nurses taking rape kits and her concerned parents, etc. so she has no choice but to view this as a rape rather than just something that happens once in a while (OK, most weekends) when she drinks too much.”

    How many times had she engaged in this conduct? Are you assuming facts not submitted as evidence?

    “He deserves what happened to him, but for being stupid, not for what he did, which is no different than what happens on campus every night.”



    Right, because guys can do what they want with girls. We got that part already. Do you have any sense of control?

    “Regarding “incapacitation” – unless he dragged her behind the dumpster, she got there more or less on her own two feet.”

    Just because she got there does not mean it was of her own volition.

    “As I said before, he deserves punishment not for what he did but for doing it in such a stupid way as to risk getting caught (but not life ruining punishment as he received – the six months in county is the least of it). So the sage advice “get a room” applies.”

    Just because they get a room does not mean he or she are not subject to potential legal action for their actions.

    “If you look at the thousands threats that have now been made to the judge, to the people who wrote character references, to the father, etc. it’s clear that a lynch mob mentality has developed.”



    Absolutely. Just like there is a lynch mob mentality, compliments of Roissy’s henchmen, has developed to defend the actions of the guy. Because feminism.

  225. @PiltdownMan
    @Marcus


    Jonsson doesn’t look very Swedish, despite his name. Maybe product of a local man and an Asian bride (like Chrisy Teigen)?
     


    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the "Black Irish" they do exist. It's more common to find that type in Norway though. There's some speculation that this has something to do with an influx of Walloons in the 17th century into Scandinavia. And Swedes do tan quite dark, unlike, say, the gingers of Scotland.

    There are, of course, contemporary admixtures but Jonsson does not appear to be one of those.

    Replies: @Marcus, @Jefferson, @snorlax

    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the “Black Irish” they do exist.

    A few months ago I thought the director and star of 80’s action film spoof “Kung Fury,” David Sandberg, did not look very Swedish, but my Googling indicated that both he and his parents are native Swedes. (Although his name sounds Jewish to American ears, “Sandberg” is apparently a common Swedish surname).

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    @snorlax

    "A few months ago I thought the director and star of 80′s action film spoof “Kung Fury,” David Sandberg, did not look very Swedish, but my Googling indicated that both he and his parents are native Swedes. (Although his name sounds Jewish to American ears, “Sandberg” is apparently a common Swedish surname)."

    Alicia Vikander from the film Ex-Machina is also a Swede who does not look stereotypically Swedish, especially because she has brown eyes. 90 percent of Native Indigeneous Swedes have light eyes.

    Replies: @Marcus

  226. @Jack D
    @Threecranes

    It's more than just quick thinking about how to cover this up (though that might have happened too - a lot of these "rape" accusations are made by girls who are later pressured by their parents, boyfriends, etc. when they find out, sometimes months later).

    When my kids were little, sometime they would fall down, as little kids do. If you ran up to them with a look of shock and horror on your face as if they had just severed a limb, they would burst into hysterical tears, but if you came over and laughed and brushed them off, they would go about their business as if nothing happened. The way we experience an event is highly subjective - if you have all kinds of shrill harridans telling you that you are the victim of a heinous crime, then you feel like the victim of a heinous crime. If you read the woman's victim statement, that's exactly what happened to her. If OTOH, the couple had done exactly the same thing, but in privacy, and the next morning Brock had been nice to her when she woke up, she would have made some jokes about having had too much the night before and that would have been it.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    The way we experience an event is highly subjective – if you have all kinds of shrill harridans telling you that you are the victim of a heinous crime, then you feel like the victim of a heinous crime.

    Exactly. And she probably conflates all the bad things (like the no doubt serious hangover) into one Big Bad Experience: The Rape.

  227. Alcohol has some remarkable effects on some individuals, who themselves may learn of these effects only from costly experience.

    Legalize pot and promote it as an alternative to alcohol!

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    Pot also has remarkable effects on some individuals. Like I knew a guy who became aggressive (!) after smoking pot, which is rare but apparently does happen.

    The big problem is that its effects are even less predictable then those of alcohol.

  228. @Stephen R. Diamond
    Alcohol has some remarkable effects on some individuals, who themselves may learn of these effects only from costly experience.

    Legalize pot and promote it as an alternative to alcohol!

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Pot also has remarkable effects on some individuals. Like I knew a guy who became aggressive (!) after smoking pot, which is rare but apparently does happen.

    The big problem is that its effects are even less predictable then those of alcohol.

  229. @snorlax
    @PiltdownMan


    Dark haired and darker complexioned Swedes are a minority, but just like the “Black Irish” they do exist.
     
    A few months ago I thought the director and star of 80's action film spoof "Kung Fury," David Sandberg, did not look very Swedish, but my Googling indicated that both he and his parents are native Swedes. (Although his name sounds Jewish to American ears, "Sandberg" is apparently a common Swedish surname).

    Replies: @Jefferson

    “A few months ago I thought the director and star of 80′s action film spoof “Kung Fury,” David Sandberg, did not look very Swedish, but my Googling indicated that both he and his parents are native Swedes. (Although his name sounds Jewish to American ears, “Sandberg” is apparently a common Swedish surname).”

    Alicia Vikander from the film Ex-Machina is also a Swede who does not look stereotypically Swedish, especially because she has brown eyes. 90 percent of Native Indigeneous Swedes have light eyes.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    @Jefferson

    I was about to mention her, also there's the execrable politician Mona Sahlin

  230. @Jack D
    @Wanderer

    If you look at the thousands threats that have now been made to the judge, to the people who wrote character references, to the father, etc. it's clear that a lynch mob mentality has developed.

    In the old South lynch mobs were a way of whites reasserting their authority over blacks after they had gone on a crime spree during Reconstruction and evening the score for all the unpunished crimes that had happened. Whether the guy you strung up was really guilty or not was less important than the fear that it was intended to introduce pour encourager les autres.

    The intention here is to put the fear of God into men by a powerful female mob and to exact symbolic punishment against all the men who have gotten away with rape in the past. Whether the guy that they string up is really guilty of rape is secondary.

    Of course you can't go after protected classes like blacks so women's fear of being raped, their desire for revenge against rapists, etc. has to be displaced onto a socially acceptable scapegoat and who is more socially acceptable as a target than a smug white man?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “There are a lot of things that are against the law that go on every day, but only a few people get caught and have their lives ruined. In California, the age of consent is 18. How many 16 and 17 year olds (and younger) have broken this law? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Ditto marijuana laws – how many millions of people have broken these laws?”

    Thanks, older brother.

    “Fundamentally, this kid’s mistake was having sex in a public place. Had they gone somewhere private, then they would have done their thing, she would have woken up in the morning and remembered nothing and that would have been that, especially if he was nice to her in the morning.”

    And how do YOU know this for certain??? Moreover, the mistake was made by both the man and woman to get silly drunk and put themselves in harm’s way. Moreover, it does not matter had he “taken her” in a private place, she was incapacitated as defined by the law. He would still be subject to potential prosecution.

    “With this girl’s drinking habits, the chances are high that has already happened to her a number of times.”

    What are her drinking habits? Was that borne out during testimony?

    “But no, idiot has to rut like a dog in public.”



    So, guy and girl get drunk. Both lack the ability to properly reason. Girl is unconscious. Guy can “rut” girl in public or private. No harm, no foul, right? I mean, they are both drunk. They both have no culpability. There probably was consent.

    Is that why you have such a high notch count?

    “The girl wakes up surrounded by police and nurses taking rape kits and her concerned parents, etc. so she has no choice but to view this as a rape rather than just something that happens once in a while (OK, most weekends) when she drinks too much.”

    How many times had she engaged in this conduct? Are you assuming facts not submitted as evidence?

    “He deserves what happened to him, but for being stupid, not for what he did, which is no different than what happens on campus every night.”



    Right, because guys can do what they want with girls. We got that part already. Do you have any sense of control?

    “Regarding “incapacitation” – unless he dragged her behind the dumpster, she got there more or less on her own two feet.”

    Just because she got there does not mean it was of her own volition.

    “As I said before, he deserves punishment not for what he did but for doing it in such a stupid way as to risk getting caught (but not life ruining punishment as he received – the six months in county is the least of it). So the sage advice “get a room” applies.”

    Just because they get a room does not mean he or she are not subject to potential legal action for their actions.

    “If you look at the thousands threats that have now been made to the judge, to the people who wrote character references, to the father, etc. it’s clear that a lynch mob mentality has developed.”



    Absolutely. Just like there is a lynch mob mentality, compliments of Roissy’s henchmen, has developed to defend the actions of the guy. Because feminism.

  231. @Saint Louis
    @Corvinus

    You say Donatello makes the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend. But it's a pretty good assumption. It's clear that at a minimum they were grinding at the party.

    I know I wouldn't be too happy to discover my girlfriend had been dry-humping (which is really all grinding is) some dude in public. That's why I lean toward Donatello's view that she was trying to cover her ass.

    Ultimately, we don't really know what happened, and that is precisely why he should have been acquitted, with the presumption of innocence and reasonable doubt and whatnot.

    I think the judge realized this was a miscarriage of justice and sentenced accordingly. Imagine if he had issued a JNOV.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “You say Donatello makes the assumption that she was cheating on her boyfriend. But it’s a pretty good assumption. It’s clear that at a minimum they were grinding at the party.”

    

Was this fact borne out during testimony? Otherwise, it’s NOT clear.

    “I know I wouldn’t be too happy to discover my girlfriend had been dry-humping (which is really all grinding is) some dude in public. That’s why I lean toward Donatello’s view that she was trying to cover her ass.”

    Likewise, I’m sure your girlfriend wouldn’t be too happy to discover that you had been dry-humping some chick public, right? Or do guys have the agency to take any women they want?

    “Ultimately, we don’t really know what happened, and that is precisely why he should have been acquitted, with the presumption of innocence and reasonable doubt and whatnot.”



    Yes, we don’t know what truly happened, but the jury found him guilty based on the available facts of the case. They felt the prosecutor made his case. That is how the justice system works.

  232. @Wanderer
    @Corvinus

    Except you were seeking to speak out of both sides of your mouth.

    Out of one side of your mouth you sought to make the younger individual (the male) responsible for his actions and not the older individual (the female), then out of the other side of your mouth you tried to appear even handed.

    Of course, one can say that he should have anticipated that his behavior might have been less than exemplary after consuming that much alcohol, but that comes with the builtin assumption that only males have agency ...

    My suggestion for all parents with male children these days is simply avoid sending their sons to college because they are virulently anti-male. I suggest that they concentrate on getting on-line degrees.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Out of one side of your mouth you sought to make the younger individual (the male) responsible for his actions and not the older individual (the female)…”

    Here is the key part here…she was incapacitated as defined by the law–passed out or awake but too high or drunk to know what he or she is doing or to control their behavior. He was prosecuted and found guilty.

    I keep hearing that men are more rational and more under control than women, especially given how “rape culture” has exploded onto the scene within the past decade. You would think that he would have known not to put himself in this position. He deservedly goes to prison. Lesson learned.

    I keep hearing that women are wary of “predator men” on college campuses, especially given how “rape culture” has exploded on the scene within the past decade. You would think that she would have known not to put herself in this position. She deservedly will have psychological issues the rest of her life. Lesson learned.

    “Of course, one can say that he should have anticipated that his behavior might have been less than exemplary after consuming that much alcohol, but that comes with the built in assumption that only males have agency.”

    Corrected for accuracy –> Men and women have agency.

    “My suggestion for all parents with male children these days is simply avoid sending their sons to college because they are virulently anti-male. I suggest that they concentrate on getting on-line degrees.”

    That’s what beta males say. Here is advice for parents–teach their sons and daughters that if they consumer alcohol to the point of blacking out, the risk is greater that you will engage in, knowingly or unknowingly, illegal conduct that will have direct ramifications on your life.

  233. @Anonymous
    @Corvinus

    “I.e. how do we know she was unconscious the time she was fingered?”

    Better question–How do YOU know she was not unconscious?

    We do not know for CERTAIN, but all the EVIDENCE we have is CONSISTENT with her not having been unconscious when she was unconscious.

    There is ample and reasonable doubt about these accusations.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “There is ample and reasonable doubt about these accusations.”

    The money shot is that she was behind the dumpster incapacitated and two witnesses bore that out. He ran away as a result of being discovered. No reasonable doubt from the jury’s perspective.

    “Really? People should be imprisoned for dry humping while drunk?”

    That’s not what I said. Consider my entire discussion in context.

  234. @reiner Tor
    @Corvinus


    How do YOU know she was not unconscious?
     
    I don't know. She could well have been. But it looks like she went on her own legs out of her own volition to behind the dumpster. Or did he drag her there?

    Except there was testimony given that she was comatose.
     
    During the party? Hardly. The testimony is about when (after) the Swedes arrived.

    Yet she claimed not to have remembered anything about the party before. I've had similar experiences (though with one exception I always had some blurred memories about at least the clubs or places I visited), and people who met me could only tell me later I was visibly drunk. I've had a friend who habitually blacked out and hardly remembered anything, and yet many people characterized him during these evenings as barely tipsy!

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “The testimony is about when (after) the Swedes arrived.”

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    “Yet she claimed not to have remembered anything about the party before.”

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @Corvinus

    Then the jury was wrong.

    , @Wanderer
    @Corvinus

    No doubt Corvinus believes that since the jury acquitted OJ, Goldman killed OJ's wife and then killed himself to frame OJ.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  235. @Jefferson
    @snorlax

    "A few months ago I thought the director and star of 80′s action film spoof “Kung Fury,” David Sandberg, did not look very Swedish, but my Googling indicated that both he and his parents are native Swedes. (Although his name sounds Jewish to American ears, “Sandberg” is apparently a common Swedish surname)."

    Alicia Vikander from the film Ex-Machina is also a Swede who does not look stereotypically Swedish, especially because she has brown eyes. 90 percent of Native Indigeneous Swedes have light eyes.

    Replies: @Marcus

    I was about to mention her, also there’s the execrable politician Mona Sahlin

  236. @Corvinus
    @reiner Tor

    "The testimony is about when (after) the Swedes arrived."

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    "Yet she claimed not to have remembered anything about the party before."

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Wanderer

    Then the jury was wrong.

  237. Moments to remember, drunken blackout attempted sex play behind some dirty smelly garbage dumpsters. Thanks for the memories. Whatever happened to romance?

  238. @S. Anonyia
    @SPMoore8

    While I don't doubt that the dude is guilty......

    I'm also suspicious of anyone who claims to have "totally lost their memory" while drinking. If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious. There is no way that someone would have absolutely no recollection of the HOURS spent at a party before they passed out.

    I think many "blackouts" are probably psychological. It's telling that some people claim to regularly black out while other people can get drunk to the point of minor alcohol poisoning and still remember everything.

    Replies: @guest, @MEH 0910, @ben tillman, @dumpstersquirrel

    “If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious.”

    Who is “you”? I can assure you that I don’t remember many things up to the point of falling asleep — When I pass out drunk, depending on how heavily I’ve imbibed, I might not remember anything that happened in the two hours before passing out and might have minimal, fragmented memories going back as far as six hours.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @dumpstersquirrel

    That's true. But there's no way others could tell that you would have no memories later. It's also questionable if you were totally incapable of consent etc. if it happened: not-blacked-out plain drunkenness is not terribly different, and ordinary drunkenness - I guess - doesn't mean total incapacitation.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  239. @dumpstersquirrel
    @S. Anonyia

    "If you just pass out drunk, you still remember things up to the point that you fall asleep/unconscious."

    Who is "you"? I can assure you that I don't remember many things up to the point of falling asleep -- When I pass out drunk, depending on how heavily I've imbibed, I might not remember anything that happened in the two hours before passing out and might have minimal, fragmented memories going back as far as six hours.

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    That’s true. But there’s no way others could tell that you would have no memories later. It’s also questionable if you were totally incapable of consent etc. if it happened: not-blacked-out plain drunkenness is not terribly different, and ordinary drunkenness – I guess – doesn’t mean total incapacitation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @reiner Tor

    That’s true. But there’s no way others could tell that you would have no memories later. It’s also questionable if you were totally incapable of consent etc. if it happened: not-blacked-out plain drunkenness is not terribly different, and ordinary drunkenness – I guess – doesn’t mean total incapacitation.

    Could you rephrase this comment? I'm having trouble following it and am interested in your perspective.

  240. @Brutusale
    @anon

    Due to a lack of disposable income and the price of cocktails, youngsters "pregame" booze quite a bit these days.

    Replies: @guest

    They were going to a party, not a bar. The question was about the parent, not the drunks, anyway.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @guest

    Which leaves the woman here even more responsible. She intentionally incapacitated herself.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  241. @guest
    @Brutusale

    They were going to a party, not a bar. The question was about the parent, not the drunks, anyway.

    Replies: @Brutusale

    Which leaves the woman here even more responsible. She intentionally incapacitated herself.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Brutusale

    How responsible?


    The woman told jurors that she started drinking whiskey with her sister and friends about 10 p.m. at her parents' Palo Alto home. She had four shots of whiskey and a glass of champagne. Later, at the party, she did two or three shots of vodka.
     
    I'm 6'2" and a bit under 200 lbs. I would pass out.

    http://www.montereyherald.com/general-news/20160321/witness-stanford-rape-defendant-brock-turner-had-victims-dna-on-hands/2

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  242. @Corvinus
    @reiner Tor

    "The testimony is about when (after) the Swedes arrived."

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    "Yet she claimed not to have remembered anything about the party before."

    Which to the jury meant everything.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Wanderer

    No doubt Corvinus believes that since the jury acquitted OJ, Goldman killed OJ’s wife and then killed himself to frame OJ.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @Wanderer

    When you pick a jury trial, you are submitting to the judgment of 12 people. They in turn are there to weigh the evidence, they are not there to rubber stamp convictions or acquittals. Based on what I know, I think the jury arrived at the correct verdict. But based on the sentence, Turner might have been better off with a bench trial.

    Juries sometimes get it wrong, particularly in the state of California, as Ambrose Bierce understood almost 140 years ago:


    The Tried Assassin

    An Assassin being put on trial in a New England court, his Counsel rose and said: "Your Honor, I move for discharge on the ground of "once in jeopardy': my client has been already tried for that murder and acquitted."
    "In what court?" asked the Judge.
    "In the Superior Court of San Francisco," the Counsel replied.
    "Let the trial proceed - your motion is denied," said the judge. "An Assassin is not in jeopardy when tried in California."
     

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  243. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor
    @dumpstersquirrel

    That's true. But there's no way others could tell that you would have no memories later. It's also questionable if you were totally incapable of consent etc. if it happened: not-blacked-out plain drunkenness is not terribly different, and ordinary drunkenness - I guess - doesn't mean total incapacitation.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    That’s true. But there’s no way others could tell that you would have no memories later. It’s also questionable if you were totally incapable of consent etc. if it happened: not-blacked-out plain drunkenness is not terribly different, and ordinary drunkenness – I guess – doesn’t mean total incapacitation.

    Could you rephrase this comment? I’m having trouble following it and am interested in your perspective.

  244. @Wanderer
    @Corvinus

    No doubt Corvinus believes that since the jury acquitted OJ, Goldman killed OJ's wife and then killed himself to frame OJ.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    When you pick a jury trial, you are submitting to the judgment of 12 people. They in turn are there to weigh the evidence, they are not there to rubber stamp convictions or acquittals. Based on what I know, I think the jury arrived at the correct verdict. But based on the sentence, Turner might have been better off with a bench trial.

    Juries sometimes get it wrong, particularly in the state of California, as Ambrose Bierce understood almost 140 years ago:

    The Tried Assassin

    An Assassin being put on trial in a New England court, his Counsel rose and said: “Your Honor, I move for discharge on the ground of “once in jeopardy’: my client has been already tried for that murder and acquitted.”
    “In what court?” asked the Judge.
    “In the Superior Court of San Francisco,” the Counsel replied.
    “Let the trial proceed – your motion is denied,” said the judge. “An Assassin is not in jeopardy when tried in California.”

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8


    Based on what I know, I think the jury arrived at the correct verdict.
     
    But you didn't dispute my facts, that it's impossible to know if the guy did anything wrong. How can you insist that was the right decision?

    Replies: @SPMoore8

  245. @Brutusale
    @guest

    Which leaves the woman here even more responsible. She intentionally incapacitated herself.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    How responsible?

    The woman told jurors that she started drinking whiskey with her sister and friends about 10 p.m. at her parents’ Palo Alto home. She had four shots of whiskey and a glass of champagne. Later, at the party, she did two or three shots of vodka.

    I’m 6’2″ and a bit under 200 lbs. I would pass out.

    http://www.montereyherald.com/general-news/20160321/witness-stanford-rape-defendant-brock-turner-had-victims-dna-on-hands/2

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8


    How responsible?
     
    She's very responsible in having intentionally incapacitated herself. She had also been a very heavy drinker if she thought she could get away with that amount. The quicker you drink, the higher the likelihood that you will get very drunk very suddenly (i.e. one moment almost sober, next moment barely able to walk or - as has happened to me - even to sit). On the other hand that also means that you drink most of that while still sober, so you are more responsible for incapacitating yourself: she drank most of that while still sober.

    I used to be quite thin, maybe 135 lbs at university and I often drank 6-8 shots and the same number of beers, or 10-12 beers but no shots. But I drank that much over a five-hour period or longer, and I got dead drunk, often had, if not blackouts, then maybe brownouts. And I think a 130-pound male can better absorb alcohol than a woman of equal size. Many young and pretty women weigh considerably less than that, like 110 pounds, so her side of not remembering is getting quite believable.

    She arrived before midnight at the frat house. She must have drunk the whole thing within an hour. I now believe more than not that she doesn't remember the frat party much.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @SPMoore8

  246. @SPMoore8
    @Wanderer

    When you pick a jury trial, you are submitting to the judgment of 12 people. They in turn are there to weigh the evidence, they are not there to rubber stamp convictions or acquittals. Based on what I know, I think the jury arrived at the correct verdict. But based on the sentence, Turner might have been better off with a bench trial.

    Juries sometimes get it wrong, particularly in the state of California, as Ambrose Bierce understood almost 140 years ago:


    The Tried Assassin

    An Assassin being put on trial in a New England court, his Counsel rose and said: "Your Honor, I move for discharge on the ground of "once in jeopardy': my client has been already tried for that murder and acquitted."
    "In what court?" asked the Judge.
    "In the Superior Court of San Francisco," the Counsel replied.
    "Let the trial proceed - your motion is denied," said the judge. "An Assassin is not in jeopardy when tried in California."
     

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Based on what I know, I think the jury arrived at the correct verdict.

    But you didn’t dispute my facts, that it’s impossible to know if the guy did anything wrong. How can you insist that was the right decision?

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    I think the jury made the right decision because I have read the arrest report which is linked to below (it is already in use by MSM, so, no foul.) According to this Turner was observed dry humping the half naked (lower half) woman -- about 10 thrusts -- while she was unconscious. Not only that, but she was unconscious for the next three hours, being repeatedly checked by the police.

    Bonus to the report is that if you pay attention to detail and do some thoughtful searching it won't take you long to figure out who the victim was.

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1532973/complaint-brock-turner.pdf

    Replies: @reiner Tor

  247. @SPMoore8
    @Brutusale

    How responsible?


    The woman told jurors that she started drinking whiskey with her sister and friends about 10 p.m. at her parents' Palo Alto home. She had four shots of whiskey and a glass of champagne. Later, at the party, she did two or three shots of vodka.
     
    I'm 6'2" and a bit under 200 lbs. I would pass out.

    http://www.montereyherald.com/general-news/20160321/witness-stanford-rape-defendant-brock-turner-had-victims-dna-on-hands/2

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    How responsible?

    She’s very responsible in having intentionally incapacitated herself. She had also been a very heavy drinker if she thought she could get away with that amount. The quicker you drink, the higher the likelihood that you will get very drunk very suddenly (i.e. one moment almost sober, next moment barely able to walk or – as has happened to me – even to sit). On the other hand that also means that you drink most of that while still sober, so you are more responsible for incapacitating yourself: she drank most of that while still sober.

    I used to be quite thin, maybe 135 lbs at university and I often drank 6-8 shots and the same number of beers, or 10-12 beers but no shots. But I drank that much over a five-hour period or longer, and I got dead drunk, often had, if not blackouts, then maybe brownouts. And I think a 130-pound male can better absorb alcohol than a woman of equal size. Many young and pretty women weigh considerably less than that, like 110 pounds, so her side of not remembering is getting quite believable.

    She arrived before midnight at the frat house. She must have drunk the whole thing within an hour. I now believe more than not that she doesn’t remember the frat party much.

    • Replies: @Wanderer
    @reiner Tor

    No one cares.

    He is yet another white male sacrificed at the alter of Vagina Power.

    However, given the rate at which the elites want to import vibrants women may soon lament their lot.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    My best guess is that the victim was of half Asian descent so your estimate of her weight is probably correct, or even on the high side.

    You can't drink that much if you don't work up to it. We are talking the equivalent of 7-8 oz of 80 proof alcohol in a little over two hours. That's pretty much an automatic blackout.

  248. So eventually we do have some new facts:

    – they drank very quickly
    – besides the 4 shots + 1 glass of champagne she drank 2-3 more shots at the party
    – the altogether 6-7 shots+ glass of champagne were consumed between 10pm and 1am, since 1am was already behind the dumpster, it must have been before 12:30am

    Probably she arrived at the party drunk but far from unconscious. She then drank some more, which finished her off. Because those were shots, they must have been absorbed quickly, too. This makes it for example possible that she passed out suddenly mid-foreplay. But it’s also possible she was dragged there by the guy while already barely conscious.

    It would be nice to know how they met there and what they did. There’s very little time for flirting or talking or dancing before the dumpster.

    I think this timeline makes it more likely a crime did indeed happen.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    According to the arrest report, she, her sister, and two other gals were driven to the party a little after 11 after consuming 4 shots and champagne. Then they danced and drank 2-3 more shots, and also had some beer. Around midnight the girls went to the bushes screening the frat house from Lagunitas Lake (a sort of seasonal swamp) in order to pee. Then when they went back to the frat house they stayed in the back area, near the dumpster. BTW, a path runs between the back of the building and the bushes.

    A little after that, it was decided that one of the girls had drunk too much (you don't say!) so the other girls walked her home (apparently nearby) leaving the victim alone in the back porch area with the perp, who had been hitting on the younger sister in the back porch area. Then at some point the two of them ended up by the dumpster, and so on.

    I think the verdict was fair. She must have been absolutely sh*tfaced and while that's her fault, he should have recognized that. The fact that he did not indicates at minimum poor judgment, his own intoxication, and raging hormones.

  249. @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8


    How responsible?
     
    She's very responsible in having intentionally incapacitated herself. She had also been a very heavy drinker if she thought she could get away with that amount. The quicker you drink, the higher the likelihood that you will get very drunk very suddenly (i.e. one moment almost sober, next moment barely able to walk or - as has happened to me - even to sit). On the other hand that also means that you drink most of that while still sober, so you are more responsible for incapacitating yourself: she drank most of that while still sober.

    I used to be quite thin, maybe 135 lbs at university and I often drank 6-8 shots and the same number of beers, or 10-12 beers but no shots. But I drank that much over a five-hour period or longer, and I got dead drunk, often had, if not blackouts, then maybe brownouts. And I think a 130-pound male can better absorb alcohol than a woman of equal size. Many young and pretty women weigh considerably less than that, like 110 pounds, so her side of not remembering is getting quite believable.

    She arrived before midnight at the frat house. She must have drunk the whole thing within an hour. I now believe more than not that she doesn't remember the frat party much.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @SPMoore8

    No one cares.

    He is yet another white male sacrificed at the alter of Vagina Power.

    However, given the rate at which the elites want to import vibrants women may soon lament their lot.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Wanderer

    "No one cares."

    That's observably false. A number of people care about justice, whether it be for the perp or for the victim.

    "However, given the rate at which the elites want to import vibrants women may soon lament their lot."

    Would you be willing to define "elites"?

  250. @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8


    Based on what I know, I think the jury arrived at the correct verdict.
     
    But you didn't dispute my facts, that it's impossible to know if the guy did anything wrong. How can you insist that was the right decision?

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    I think the jury made the right decision because I have read the arrest report which is linked to below (it is already in use by MSM, so, no foul.) According to this Turner was observed dry humping the half naked (lower half) woman — about 10 thrusts — while she was unconscious. Not only that, but she was unconscious for the next three hours, being repeatedly checked by the police.

    Bonus to the report is that if you pay attention to detail and do some thoughtful searching it won’t take you long to figure out who the victim was.

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1532973/complaint-brock-turner.pdf

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8

    Thanks. I skimmed it through, and it changed my mind. The guy's probably guilty as charged.

  251. @reiner Tor
    @SPMoore8


    How responsible?
     
    She's very responsible in having intentionally incapacitated herself. She had also been a very heavy drinker if she thought she could get away with that amount. The quicker you drink, the higher the likelihood that you will get very drunk very suddenly (i.e. one moment almost sober, next moment barely able to walk or - as has happened to me - even to sit). On the other hand that also means that you drink most of that while still sober, so you are more responsible for incapacitating yourself: she drank most of that while still sober.

    I used to be quite thin, maybe 135 lbs at university and I often drank 6-8 shots and the same number of beers, or 10-12 beers but no shots. But I drank that much over a five-hour period or longer, and I got dead drunk, often had, if not blackouts, then maybe brownouts. And I think a 130-pound male can better absorb alcohol than a woman of equal size. Many young and pretty women weigh considerably less than that, like 110 pounds, so her side of not remembering is getting quite believable.

    She arrived before midnight at the frat house. She must have drunk the whole thing within an hour. I now believe more than not that she doesn't remember the frat party much.

    Replies: @Wanderer, @SPMoore8

    My best guess is that the victim was of half Asian descent so your estimate of her weight is probably correct, or even on the high side.

    You can’t drink that much if you don’t work up to it. We are talking the equivalent of 7-8 oz of 80 proof alcohol in a little over two hours. That’s pretty much an automatic blackout.

  252. @reiner Tor
    So eventually we do have some new facts:

    - they drank very quickly
    - besides the 4 shots + 1 glass of champagne she drank 2-3 more shots at the party
    - the altogether 6-7 shots+ glass of champagne were consumed between 10pm and 1am, since 1am was already behind the dumpster, it must have been before 12:30am

    Probably she arrived at the party drunk but far from unconscious. She then drank some more, which finished her off. Because those were shots, they must have been absorbed quickly, too. This makes it for example possible that she passed out suddenly mid-foreplay. But it's also possible she was dragged there by the guy while already barely conscious.

    It would be nice to know how they met there and what they did. There's very little time for flirting or talking or dancing before the dumpster.

    I think this timeline makes it more likely a crime did indeed happen.

    Replies: @SPMoore8

    According to the arrest report, she, her sister, and two other gals were driven to the party a little after 11 after consuming 4 shots and champagne. Then they danced and drank 2-3 more shots, and also had some beer. Around midnight the girls went to the bushes screening the frat house from Lagunitas Lake (a sort of seasonal swamp) in order to pee. Then when they went back to the frat house they stayed in the back area, near the dumpster. BTW, a path runs between the back of the building and the bushes.

    A little after that, it was decided that one of the girls had drunk too much (you don’t say!) so the other girls walked her home (apparently nearby) leaving the victim alone in the back porch area with the perp, who had been hitting on the younger sister in the back porch area. Then at some point the two of them ended up by the dumpster, and so on.

    I think the verdict was fair. She must have been absolutely sh*tfaced and while that’s her fault, he should have recognized that. The fact that he did not indicates at minimum poor judgment, his own intoxication, and raging hormones.

  253. @kihowi

    Another picture of him smiling, please. Because this is what a campus sexual predator looks like. And that’s the truth too many people refuse to acknowledge.
     
    Who the hell is saying that rapists can't be charismatic? Nobody!

    Her conception of everybody else's conception of reality is a silent movie era trope. Scowling rapists with twirly moustaches and black capes. MUHAHAHAHAHA!

    Is there a name for misunderstanding other people so spectacularly? Austism? Feminism? Deadline?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @Njguy73, @Olorin

    The name is Petula Dvorak.

    Petula is a columnist for The Washington Post’s local team who writes about homeless shelters, gun control, high heels, high school choirs, the politics of parenting, jails, abortion clinics, mayors, modern families, strip clubs and gas prices, among other things. Before coming to The Post, she covered social issues, crime, and courts in New Orleans, New Jersey and Los Angeles. She lives in D.C., is a graduate of the University of Southern California and the mother of two boys.

    She graduated from USC in journalism two years before Sabrina Rubin graduated from UPenn. Rubin started out in pre-med and couldn’t hack it; Dvorak had an international studies minor, and judging from her writing didn’t make much headway in that field. They both came from the era where women got ahead by being more purple than the next guy, and bashing white men.

    When you’re competing with Heidi Beirich for the title of Most Likely To Be Mistaken For A Morlock, I guess you write whatever gets you attention.

  254. @TipTipTopKek
    Funny, from a column here at this blog I distinctly remember that more than half of college rapists were Affirmative-Action-Americans. Did they not get that memo at WaPo?

    Does Dvorak (((echo))) or is she just Shabbos? "Dvorak" is a Czech/Galician surname and is in a few LOLocaust databases but IDK if that is her maiden name or married name, and if it's her married name, I don't know her maidan, oops, maiden name, or as they say in Texas, "who she is from home."

    Replies: @Jefferson, @Olorin

    I couldn’t find out, but her appearance certainly explains why she’s bitter toward good looking white boys.

  255. @Threecranes
    @Corvinus

    Neither you nor I know precisely what happened, nor apparently do either of the participants, both having been blind drunk. I'm only pointing out that she had ample motive (and probably some encouragement) for conjuring up some story that exonerated her and at the same time wrapped her in a protective cocoon of pity and righteous outrage.

    I have learned, over the years, that whenever people mount their chargers and are ready to launch a crusade, then that is precisely the moment for withdrawal and reflection--the war on Iraq being a great example. And just so here. In my experience, many young women are ready, willing and able to more than step up to the plate and take their swings, especially after alcohol has "put the Superego to sleep", the Guardian or watchdog of their "morals" and I put morals in quotes not because I question their or her worth but because in many cases, sex isn't about morals at all. I am a bit more Henry Millerish about the whole thing. She's probably a fine woman, a bit misguided maybe, but then, who isn't?

    I don't buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex. What she is ashamed of is having all this happen in front of her family and boyfriend. Let's stop looking at these types of things as though we were all born in a state of innocence and only become corrupt because some outside agent brought us down. What childishness. Let's stop pretending that we all, each of us, don't have a sex drive. Everyone's acting as though this guy deflowered a virgin angel. What tripe!

    I'll say it again; how do you know that she wasn't having a great time before she passed out? That it wasn't the greatest sex of her life? The answer is, "You don't" and by her own admission, her regrets only manifested later, so if it's alright with you, I'll base my judgement of what occurred on the basis of her behavior while she was with it and functioning, and by those criteria, she was willing and cooperative. I don't trust after the fact rationalizations.

    As for your innuendos on my personal motives, character etc. Yeah, whatever, believe whatever you like.

    Replies: @Olorin

    I don’t buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex. What she is ashamed of is having all this happen in front of her family and boyfriend.

    Totally agree.

    She was apparently driven to the party (by her mother?) already well in her cups. She picked a college athlete 5 years her junior to play with. She drank more and let her inner animal prowl.

    Then woke up in an alley with her casual, and probably not unusual, sex habits reframed by others as something much more serious.

    No wonder she had to confabulate 12,000 words about being a skyscraper.

    Millennials need chaperons. I’m more convinced of that than ever.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Olorin

    "I don’t buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex."

    You say you "totally agree". What is your evidence that Donatello's assertion is accurate?

    "Millennials need chaperons. I’m more convinced of that than ever."

    Why?

  256. I skimmed through the report, and I have further new facts.

    1) There was no flirtation at all. According to the guy, they danced a little and then quickly started to kiss, after which the girl quickly started pulling him outside to the bushy area behind the dumpster.

    2) The guy couldn’t produce the name of the girl, or any other data, and didn’t claim to have talked to her at all. He also didn’t claim to have blacked out.

    3) The girls went out together to pee in the bushy area. After the victim was left alone, she probably went there again to pee, and passed out there. At least that’s the prosecution’s theory, and I buy it based on all of the above and below.

    4) There was a swimmer, who had a tall, blond friend (description fits our swimmer). The tall blond guy was a jerk, not talkative, but just walking up to girls and trying to kiss them on the mouth etc.

    To sum it up, it now looks our swimmer has no real plausible story how he ended up on top of an unconscious girl, while there emerges a story of an asshole who tries to quickly hook up with drunk girls without asking for much consent, and finally finds an unconscious girl outside, who he starts to undress and, frankly, rape, when he’s interrupted.

    There is still some room for doubt, but that doubt starts to look less and less reasonable. In other words, the guy could be innocent, but that’s not the way to bet.

  257. @SPMoore8
    @reiner Tor

    I think the jury made the right decision because I have read the arrest report which is linked to below (it is already in use by MSM, so, no foul.) According to this Turner was observed dry humping the half naked (lower half) woman -- about 10 thrusts -- while she was unconscious. Not only that, but she was unconscious for the next three hours, being repeatedly checked by the police.

    Bonus to the report is that if you pay attention to detail and do some thoughtful searching it won't take you long to figure out who the victim was.

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1532973/complaint-brock-turner.pdf

    Replies: @reiner Tor

    Thanks. I skimmed it through, and it changed my mind. The guy’s probably guilty as charged.

  258. Here’s a blogpost I bumped into. About the whole lynchmob.

    • Agree: SPMoore8
  259. @Wanderer
    @reiner Tor

    No one cares.

    He is yet another white male sacrificed at the alter of Vagina Power.

    However, given the rate at which the elites want to import vibrants women may soon lament their lot.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “No one cares.”

    That’s observably false. A number of people care about justice, whether it be for the perp or for the victim.

    “However, given the rate at which the elites want to import vibrants women may soon lament their lot.”

    Would you be willing to define “elites”?

  260. @Olorin
    @Threecranes


    I don’t buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex. What she is ashamed of is having all this happen in front of her family and boyfriend.

     

    Totally agree.

    She was apparently driven to the party (by her mother?) already well in her cups. She picked a college athlete 5 years her junior to play with. She drank more and let her inner animal prowl.

    Then woke up in an alley with her casual, and probably not unusual, sex habits reframed by others as something much more serious.

    No wonder she had to confabulate 12,000 words about being a skyscraper.

    Millennials need chaperons. I'm more convinced of that than ever.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “I don’t buy her story that she feels shamed by the sex part of what occurred, after all, any gal that could put away booze like she could had had plenty of experience with sex.”

    You say you “totally agree”. What is your evidence that Donatello’s assertion is accurate?

    “Millennials need chaperons. I’m more convinced of that than ever.”

    Why?

  261. @Oscar Peterson
    Meanwhile, that talented Jew and rapist, Roman Polanski, lives the good life in Switzerland with no prospect of extradition to serve out his sentence, and nobody seems unduly concerned.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Roman Polanski is a half-Jew.

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