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With wealth moving back downtown, the Obama Administration is working on how to get poor inner city blacks to move to the suburbs. Two, three, many Fergusons! In the name of racial justice, of course.

From the NYT:

Vouchers Help Families Move Far From Public Housing
By BINYAMIN APPELBAUM JULY 7, 2015

PLANO, Tex. — Lamesa White and her four children moved in February from the most dangerous public housing project in Dallas to a single-family home in this affluent suburb. On the day she left, one of her daughter’s old schoolmates was shot to death.

Ms. White’s escape from the Estell Village housing project — better known as The Pinks because the buildings were once painted that color — was made possible by an experiment in housing policy the federal government began in Dallas in 2011 and is now proposing to expand to most other large metropolitan areas.

Families in Dallas who qualify for housing subsidies are offered more money if they move to more expensive neighborhoods, allowing them to live in safe communities and enroll their children in schools that are otherwise beyond reach. To sharpen the prod, the government has also cut subsidies for those who do not go.

The Obama administration has taken a deep interest in the research of the Harvard economist Raj Chetty, who has shown that where children grow up shapes their prospects as an adult, and the proposed expansion of the Dallas experiment is an early instance of the ways in which Mr. Chetty’s findings are changing public policy.

No doubt some readers got tired of my deep coverage of Chetty’s research, but the spin Chetty has given his findings has been far more influential than his actual results. So, because almost nobody else since 2013 has been taking a skeptical look at what Chetty’s found v. what he says he’s found, I stay on the case.

Housing vouchers were created in the 1970s to help poor families and their children escape public housing, but they largely failed to improve the prospects for their recipients. Many of the 2.2 million households that are receiving them at any given moment, particularly minorities, remain clustered in low-income neighborhoods in what amount to virtual housing projects.

Julián Castro, the secretary of housing and urban development, said it was past time to try a more daring approach, one that pushes harder against age-old residential patterns of class and racial segregation. …

The government has tried before to fix the rent subsidy program. In the early 1990s, an experiment called Moving to Opportunity required some families to use their vouchers in more expensive neighborhoods. In 2000, a broader initiative raised the value of all vouchers in 49 metropolitan areas. Officials hoped the change would make it possible for families to find rental apartments in a broader range of neighborhoods. Instead, a recent study by the economists Peter Ganong of Harvard and Robert Collinson of New York University found that most families ended up paying higher rents in the same neighborhoods — and often for the same units.

“When you give somebody a voucher, it tends to be the case that they buy better-quality housing in the same neighborhood,” Mr. Ganong said. “That’s always been a disappointing fact within HUD.” He said it raised the question: “If they’re not finding better neighborhoods, why are we putting this money into housing?”

The problem, officials have concluded, is that the subsidies were much too small. In 2011, HUD started the Dallas experiment as a part of a settlement with housing activists. It has since added five smaller regions to the program.

In Dallas, the maximum subsidy for a three-bedroom apartment is now just $850 in the cheapest ZIP codes, but as much as $1,840 in the most expensive ZIP codes.

The secret to making affordable housing work is to make it more unaffordable to the people actually paying the bills.

In 33 of the 50 largest metropolitan areas, the subsidy for the wealthiest ZIP code would be more than twice as high as the subsidy in the poorest ZIP code. In New York, San Diego and Washington, it would be more than three times as high.

MaryAnn Russ, chief executive of the Dallas Housing Authority, the agency that administers the experiment, said the changes had provided a “tremendous benefit” to thousands of families in the Dallas area. In 2011, Dallas voucher recipients lived in 129 ZIP codes. Four years later, recipients live in 163 ZIP codes.

Also important was that the overall cost of the program did not increase.

Because math!

Anyway, discussions of Section 8 vouchers need to come with discussions of explicit racial quotas to keep neighborhoods from being wiped out, the way my wife’s Austin neighborhood on the West Side of Chicago was destroyed. In contrast, next door in Oak Park, where my father grew up years before, an illegal but effective “black a block” racial quota kept Oak Park, with its Frank Lloyd Wright architectural heritage, from being ruined.

 
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  1. A little OT.
    American home ownership is at a 20 year low. Paychecks are shrinking and removing many Americans from potential home ownership.

  2. “PLANO, Tex. — Lamesa White and her four children moved in February from the most dangerous public housing project in Dallas to a single-family home in this affluent suburb.”

    If you import way too many Negroes from the most dangerous housing projects in Dallas to Plano, than it will cease being a nice affluent suburb. Nobody wins in the end because the violence that Lamesa White and her four children are trying to escape will just follow them to Plano and than they are right back to square one. The Obama administration has gone full retard and so has Julian Castro.

    There is absolutely zero evidence that Section 8 housing creates safer less thuggish communities. Section 8 housing Ferguson, Missouri will not be making the list of safest cities in the U.S to live anytime soon.

    Too bad there are not enough affluent Black communities in The United States for the government to drop off all of the ghetto underclass Black residents in those areas though Section 8 housing.

  3. “BINYAMIN APPELBAUM” ? I now have a new internet troll name. Thank you NYT!

  4. Freedom of association necessarily also means freedom to disassociate from ghetto blacks ( ghetto blacks is redundant in almost all cases)

  5. SFG says:

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he’d like. Of course, you’d have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn’t sound like you’re being racial–avoiding ‘concentrations of poverty’ or some such thing.

    • Replies: @Wall the ghetto
    Their phones will also have to be taken away to avoid flash mobbing of swimming pools. Better a balck indian reservation. Imagine ghetto projects in the middle of a desert.
    , @PA
    No. Dispersing Section 8 blacks is not the solution because even in small numbers they can ruin an area. Blacks will hang out wherever amenities are nicest, so ghetto friends and relatives of a Sec. 8 beneficiary will hang out in his suburb.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble.
     
    How about you and any other folks aspiring towards unworthiness registering online to have Ms Lamesa White and her four bastards move in next door. What is it going to hurt when her kids start slinging dope? Surely you can knock on her door and tell her and her kids that doing so is not neighborly. They are bound to be so impressed with your good example and moral authority that they will resist the urge to put a cap in your ass and stop immediately.
    , @SFG
    Addendum: I'm not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution--without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.

    , @Wilkey
    "Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble."

    Nice theory, but that isn't what actually happens. What actually happens is that you increase the area over which crime is taking place. There was an Atlantic article talking about two researchers in a large black city (Memphis, iirc) who explained that's exactly what happened. Crime there used to mostly be contained in the projects. After Section 8 spread them around the city, the crime problem only grew worse.

    Yep, here it is.

    None of this is new. But I'm all for putting these folks in expensive, blue suburbs. Marin sounds like a good place to start.
    , @Kylie

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he’d like.
     
    I hope you keep that bright idea to yourself.

    My experience has been that the number of blacks that is too few to cause trouble is zero. Just one recent example. I live in a small town that is over 90% white. Our neighborhood was all white. A black woman moved in up the street and her daughter and teen-aged grandson moved in down the street. The second family had been there about 2 weeks when the grandson "allegedly" started burglarizing neighborhood homes. Items reported to the police as stolen were found at his grandmother's house. He was arrested. To add insult to injury, the grandmother and mother wrongly assumed one of their relative's victims had reported him to police for drug use so they started a very nasty smear campaign against her on Facebook. When we moved in here ten years ago, people didn't lock their doors. Now they do. The whole climate of the neighborhood has changed, not for the better.
    , @Ed
    This has been tried, in fact it's the failure of what you suggest that is driving this latest Obama push.

    What happens is you move a handful of these families to nice suburbs & their younger male relatives/boyfriends cause havoc. People move and the area becomes a slum. Hope VI is such an abject failure in SE DC that there is a movement of upwardly mobile blacks to ban any more affordable housing in the Ward.
    , @Anonymous
    "Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause problems."

    I know a woman who considers herself very Progressive and who claims to favor diversity, but who decided it was in her family's best interests to move to the whitest suburb (in a different but very nearby county, with no busing) in the area where we live because of a single boy in her son's first grade class who kept trying to catch glimpses of the girls' underpants. She said she wasn't comfortable having her somewhat younger twin daughters attend a school where there were kids like this boy. Generally, this public school is populated by children from generally very affluent families, but there are also some underprivileged students who attend it (I think they are bused in).

    , @iSteveFan
    SFG, blacks comprise 13 percent of the population nationwide, though they are highly clustered. If a benevolent leader wanted to do what you suggested, why not just spread the entire black population equally across all fifty states so that each town, city, county and state had a 13 percent black populace? Of course this would cause dramatic improvements for places like Detroit. But what would a 13 percent black population do to places like Maine?

    It might be better for the blacks to spread them out. But it clearly is not better for everyone else. Though I have no scientific data to back this up, it appears that when the black percentage of an area reaches as little as 5 percent, people notice. At 10 percent people with the means look to get their kids into different schools. To try to level out the black population into areas previously untouched would be akin to violating the human rights of the current inhabitants.

    Of course I could change my mind if you began this experiment in places like Chappaqua and Malibu.
    , @Doug
    > you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored,

    Social science research has actually found the opposite. When all the social undesirables are concentrated in a single confined area, that area certainly has crime, but they largely confine themselves to terrorizing each other. (Not to mention thugs don't make easy victims, so its harder to commit crime against other thugs). When you spread out the hoodlums across the city, each tends to commit much more crime per capita in their new middle-class neighborhood filled with soft targets. There was actually a really good article about this a few years back:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/306872/
  6. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah, it’s an “interesting” situation they have going on in Dallas.

    Several months ago an Iraqi immigrant was shot dead in the parking lot of one of those suburban apartment complexes while taking pictures of a recent snowfall. He’d apparently only been on US soil for several weeks… not sure whether to feel sentimental or disgusted by that whole circumstance.

    But anyway, the typical suspects, natch.

  7. So I take it we will have more pool party brouhahas in our future?

  8. B says: • Website

    I wonder-in zombie movies, why didn’t they ever think about moving the zombies into uninfected neighborhoods? Surely, being in a zombie-infested neighborhood correlates highly with antisocial behavior, eating people, poor communication skills and low economic productivity. If you moved zombies into a neighborhood with no zombies, they would probably be going to college and getting jobs in no time.

  9. Presumably, once they’ve cleared them out of the inner cities into suburbs at public expense, the centrally located and potentially valuable real estate will be developed and colonized, the profits being privatized.

    • Replies: @Bill
    Yes, and this also points to the solution. Homeowners, alone and isolated, are not in a position to fight any of this, and they are screwed when their largest asset, their home, depreciates for reasons of diversity. So, you eliminate homeownership. Neighborhoods will be owned by real estate developers. Families will rent. This has multiple advantages.

    First, families can flee at very little cost to themselves at the first sign of diversity. Second, this flight possibility gives the real estate developer or REIT or whatever owns the neighborhood a powerful incentive to work behind the scenes so that the diversity goes somewhere else. Third, and finally, suburban neighborhoods are really just long-stay hotels anyway where Dad stays for a few years with his family before ACME Corp ships them off across the country for his next exciting assignment. It's insane to have these people own these homes. What's the point? You could save on the gigantic transactions cost of turning over houses every time somebody moves. Plus, the houses are all the same anyway, thanks to HGTV.

    So, to solve the problem, we just have to 1) make landlords richer, and 2) make the US into even more of a homogenized, disposable, soulless, transient shithole.(*) Sounds like a program the GOP could really get behind.

    (*) I know it's hard to imagine the US getting even worse on these dimensions, but I'll bet Jeb Bush is willing to give it a try!

  10. Anyway, discussions of Section 8 vouchers need to come with discussions of explicit racial quotas to keep neighborhoods from being wiped out, the way my wife’s Austin neighborhood on the West Side of Chicago was destroyed.

    Good question!!!

    How about the one baby momma rule??? Want that section 8 voucher in a better zip code??? One out of wedlock child only, then it’s Depo Provera/IUD and RISUG/Vasalgel.

    Back in the 1990s when Chicago was busy tearing down high rise public housing the public was assured that scattered site public housing in the city’s better neighborhoods was going to come with tough no nonsense administration. That actually lasted a few years until the TWMNBN funded lefty legal foundations made sure any attempt to expect the underclass to meet any behavioral or legal standard was racist because of disparate impact.

    Cause you just know Lamesa White and her four bastards are going to be a great addition to Plano Texas. Right now, Rahm Emanuel and Chicago’s PTB are hell bent on shipping Chiraq’s undesirables to the suburbs if not St Louis, Milwaukee and especially Indianapolis. The national Democratic party is willing to spend a fortune on Indy’s mayoral election this year to ensure that the largest city with a current Republican mayor is overwhelmed demographically.

    Steve you need to move beyond just mentioning how your Dad grew up in “One Black a Block” Oak Park, IL.

    How about mentioning how the yentas who sit on the resident boards for Manhattan’s and Lakeshore Drive’s highrises make sure no riff-raff are allowed in. Causes these ladies who also write 4 and 5 figure checks annually to the SPLC, ACLU and ADL are lawyered up with the best highered guns the NLG can provide and donate politically so they don’t crap of anyone.

    New York’s best addresses are famous for not tolerating bad behavior and come down like a ton of bricks on those who misbehave.

    Case in point:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/amanda-bynes-tossed-swanky-biltmore-apartment-article-1.1361109

    • Replies: @Kauai
    The yenta serves a vital role in unelected community governance. Perhaps that is what 41 meant as one of his 1000 points of light. That continues a tradition (Tevye and shtetlettes echo "Tradition") dating many centuries, where obeisance, favors, punishments, shmearing and sundry other cultural mysteries of an ineffable nature are cloaked in night and fog, redolent of garlic.

    Go to the yenta centa and take a number, unless you know someone, and they'll find you.

  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    What's the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?

    I mean, unless the point is to warehouse today's inner city poor in suburban banlieues where they will be far away from the urban upper class? I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris.

    , @anon
    You're probably a shill for the people who will make millions from the gentrification of the inner cities and the blood-price paid by white children in the suburbs

    but if you're not you're in for such a shock.
    , @iSteveFan

    Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.
     
    Have you noticed the poor are one of the only groups left that we can discriminate against? People cannot come out and say they don't wish to live in a heavily black area, so they rephrase it to say they don't want to live in a a heavily poor area. Take a lot of the so-called progressives who push diversity policies onto the rest of us. When asked why they don't live in diverse areas, they'll claim they'd like to but they don't want to live among the poor.

    I find that rich, forgive the pun, since progressives and liberals used to be the advocates of the poor. But to hear them today, they don't want anything to do with the poor.

    Of course we all know that it has nothing to do with the poor and is just an excuse to get away from diversity. I've had this discussion before and pointed out to an enlightened progressive how poor his parents and grandparents were. I then told him I guess he would never have lived in the same neighborhood. He assured me he would have since his parents and grandparents are great people. And then I told him his problem was not with the poor.

    But back to your comment. It's not the middle class that needs to live next to the so-called poor, i.e. diversity. It is the upper class and those of the managerial ranks such as academics, journalists and politicians that push these policies onto the rest of us. The middle class knows the game, and that's why they delay having children so that they can save up to move to neighborhoods with 'better schools'. Their lives are being wrecked daily. It's time for the progressives to take their own medicine. But they are too busy gentrifying the choicest real estate in the coolest cities for that to happen.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’."

    Forcing the middle-class to live next to no-account people who barely work at all and sponge off the system will end their ill-informed, preconceived notions about 'the poor', and replace them with a well-informed carefully arrived at disdain for their neighbors.
    , @Eric
    Non-Hispanic Whites and Asians make up more than 83% of Seattle's population, while blacks consists of <8%. This means policies that work for Seattle are unlikely to work the same way for cities with much larger percentages of the Dindu Nuffin tribe..
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Let me see. Anonymous and a fictitious web site. You advocate “Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.” I might think you are ignorant, or stupid, but that you mean well. But then there is always the boot-on-the-face, the violence, the coercion.

    Yes, always coercion, the coin-of-the-realm for leftists, but never persuasion.

    Your assumption that you can visit unequal treatment, suffering, and needless injustice upon the innocents in the middle class is more than enough to describe the state of your soul. Your impulse, executed by the police power of the state, qualifies you as an aristocrat-wannabe. You have none of the noblesse oblige, but all of the disdain and haughtiness. You imagine that your self-righteous posturing endows you with a luminous penumbra of secular sainthood. But the contempt you excite will result in a maelstrom that makes the idiots that perpetrated the French Revolution seem like a centered, well-balanced, moderate group of gardeners.

    If you knew the results of what you advocate you would repent, reverse course, and embrace principles that produce policies that benefit everyone. But that is not what an aristocrat does, is it?
    , @ben tillman

    Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.
     
    People with jobs aren't eligible for programs like this. But surely you know this.
    , @Jack D

    Forcing the middle-class .....
     
    It always comes down to force with Leftists. Forced busing , forced collectivization, force integration, forced this, forced that, force, force force. If you have to force people to do stuff "for their own good" or "for the good of the people", maybe you should think twice about whether it's really good after all.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.
     
    Anyone who's actually been poor can affirm for you that there are both good and bad, "deserving" and "undeserving", among their neighbors.

    If too many on the right assume poverty is always deserved, too many more on the Left [sic] assume it never is. That's a sign someone has had too consistently comfortable a life.
    , @Jay
    There is nothing preconceived about my experience with a Section 8 "family." Three adult females and several teen and younger children lived in a house on my block. The liberal couple next door to them offered the use of their pool. In return they got an auto burglary. The front yard was piled with trash bags and densely littered. There was constant noise. Constant coming and going of "customers." Yes, it was a whorehouse. When the realtor finally kicked them out, the inside of the house was a wreck. Marijuana-growing on hardwood floors buckled them from the water draining out the pots. Holes punched in the sheetrock. Most every tile in the bathrooms broken, obviously on purpose. These people were poor because they were unable to conduct themselves in a manner required by any employer. Not because the larger society had any preconceived notions about them. They were reproducing because socialists like you take the earnings of productive people to subsidize said reproduction.
  12. “Me miserable! which way shall I fly
    Infinite wrath and infinite despair?
    Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
    And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
    Still threatening to devour me opens wide”

  13. In San Francisco they have a very small patch of Section 8 housing right across the street from the beach in the Sunset district. I have seen it up close before, it only takes up one small sidewalk. Most of the Negroes there are women and little children, so there has not been a major spike in crime yet. Although that might change once the little Negro boys start getting older. The interesting part is if you cross the street into the next sidewalk all of the residents are either White or Asian.

    This patch of Section 8 is so small that the overall percentage of Blacks in that zip code of over 42 thousand people is still only 1 percent Black.

  14. @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    Their phones will also have to be taken away to avoid flash mobbing of swimming pools. Better a balck indian reservation. Imagine ghetto projects in the middle of a desert.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Imagine ghetto projects in the middle of a desert.

    Oh, you mean like Victorville, California? Lancaster, California? Hemet, California? San Bernardino, California?

    Easy to "imagine" because they're a reality.
  15. @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    No. Dispersing Section 8 blacks is not the solution because even in small numbers they can ruin an area. Blacks will hang out wherever amenities are nicest, so ghetto friends and relatives of a Sec. 8 beneficiary will hang out in his suburb.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    The gambit has always been first to get little old church going black lady her voucher. Once established, in come the daughters, various and sundry unkempt and unsupervised churren, and then the baby daddies/thug of the month/cousin Rollo and bitches. Some of the men will be "unconventional entrepreneurs."
  16. Would a President The Donald have the ballz to stop such a program? No. The permanent affirmative action bureaucracy (DC division) would leak and scream to the high heavens unless he can finesse it quietly. Somehow put up roadblocks. Its the zombies on the gov’t tit vs all others. This (zombies) includes the afore mentioned Federal employees.

  17. @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble.

    How about you and any other folks aspiring towards unworthiness registering online to have Ms Lamesa White and her four bastards move in next door. What is it going to hurt when her kids start slinging dope? Surely you can knock on her door and tell her and her kids that doing so is not neighborly. They are bound to be so impressed with your good example and moral authority that they will resist the urge to put a cap in your ass and stop immediately.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    I meant '"up-worthiness" not unworthiness, spellchecker does not recognize the neologism "upworthy" yet. Still in order to aspire to "up-worthiness" one is usually attempting to compensate for some sense of inadequacy.
  18. Many, but not all, Section 8 voucher holders bring with them a trove of personal baggage that overwhelms whatever the purported benefits are of living in a middle or upper income neighborhood. Being closer to a Whole Foods or decent school doesn’t mean a whole lot when your loser boyfriend, son, grandson, or other relative stays in your life and quickly makes you as unwelcome in your new environment as your old one.

  19. Families in Dallas who qualify for housing subsidies are offered more money if they move to more expensive neighborhoods, allowing them to live in safe communities and enroll their children in schools that are otherwise beyond reach. To sharpen the prod, the government has also cut subsidies for those who do not go.

    Get that? These damn do-gooders at HUD are sharpening their prods. Hilarious.

    “When you give somebody a voucher, it tends to be the case that they buy better-quality housing in the same neighborhood,” Mr. Ganong said. “That’s always been a disappointing fact within HUD.” He said it raised the question: “If they’re not finding better neighborhoods, why are we putting this money into housing?”

    Because they don’t want to live with white people. Black people would rather live with black crime than live with Andy and Opey. And those Dallas ghettos are rancid. There’s always some abandoned house, some barely standing structure where the tricks hang out with homeless guys and the crack gets sold out the back, cops won’t bust it cause its funny as hell to sit and watch the homeless guys bug the tricks, kids are breakin bottles on the street left and right, some dude crawls out of the sewer and immediately gets jumped for his shoe-laces, the pimp is straightening some trick up, cops are laughing, the hobos start going at it, some white kid cruising for crack wips out his phone cause he wants to youtube the hobo bum fight, now the other tricks are throwin down cause one got the one bum with ten bucks to john her, cops throw their sirens on but actually just leave. Everyday its the same thing. And that is preferable to Andy and Opey, absolutely.

  20. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Oak Park approach is hard to pull off since it implies that this particular variant of diversity is bad and that too much of it in one place causes problems, a radioactive subject. Another unspoken aspect in not scaring off the white receiving population is that they’re to be kept around so they can continue to be milked and provide the clean neighborhoods, good schools, church handouts and tax money.
    The housing projects were a real HBD test tube. The inhabitants were pretty much the lowlifes of that particular group, the bottom third in all aspects such as mental ability, family stability, anti-social attitudes, work history, contact with the criminal justice system, etc. In that environment they had children with one another and others on the same level leading to a breed that stands apart to the point that people could tell where they were from just by looking at them. A very large number of their children attend special ed classes for the mentally slow.
    It’s always about what’s good for them, not what might be good for those on the receiving end. Everyone else is here just to pay for it all.

  21. It doesn’t take too many bad apples to ruin the barrel. Plus the entire system is not likely to help the ones who might make improvements. It’s the stupid belief that if we just change where they live, they’ll improve. It doesn’t work because it isn’t earned. If we have to have these vouchers, why not tie them to performance?

    – You have 5 kids by 4 fathers, sorry no improved vouchers for you.
    – Your kids missed 45 days of school last year, no improved vouchers.
    – You got caught using/selling drugs, no improved vouchers.
    – etc.

    Ones who show some gumption get moved up to a lower working class neighborhood. Do well enough and you get moved to an upper level working class neighborhood. People doing that well are likely to succeed.

  22. The most disturbing part of that recent attack in Rowlett (http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/07/bystanders-wont-face-charges-in-rowlett-case-involving-girl-holding-child-police-say.html/) is that Rowlett is only about 10% Black (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowlett,_Texas#Demographics). They don’t have to seed your neighborhood with very many before horrific things can happen. Kind of puts a sinister spin the incumbent administration’s efforts to “Affirmatively Further Fair [sic] Housing” ….

  23. President Obama doesn’t seem to realize that this sort of nonsense is what turns middle-class American white families against government and makes them into conservatives. Has he learned nothing from the busing crisis of the 1970s?

    Northern European countries that have a long and successful tradition of social democracy are smarter than this. They provide subsidies across the board – not only to the poor, but to working-class and middle-class families as well. The U.S. system of means-testing not only provides perverse incentives, but completely robs these programs of any broad-based political support. This Section 8 “pilot program” is even worse; middle-class families are now going to be forced to pay taxes so that poor people can out-compete them for positional goods (housing in a high-quality school district). That’s the sort of thing that leads to a major backlash.

    It’s worth noting that the most popular social democratic programs in the United States – Social Security and Medicare – have no means testing at all.

    If you want to give housing subsidies, then you have to give everyone a housing subsidy; otherwise, you’re robbing the middle class to raise up the poor, and the middle class won’t stand for it.

  24. On the day [Lamesa White] left [Dallas’ most dangerous project], one of her daughter’s old schoolmates was shot to death by rracist cop Darren Wilson, simply for being black. Single-mother-led families in Dallas who qualify for housing subsidies are offered more money if they move to more expensive neighborhoods, allowing them to live in formerly safe communities.

    The white, Asian, and Hispanic elites named in the article are Binyamin Applebaum, Raj Chetty, Julian Castro, Peter Ganong, Robert Collinson, and MaryAnn Russ. How will this Section 8 reform affect their home values, and their kids’ chances of being beat up for lunch money? I suspect that their SuperZip neighborhoods will somehow escape the foreseeable effects of these policies.

    SWPLs and limousine liberals, preening as they deliver the latest “sucks to be you” message to Walmart whites.

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    The white, Asian, and Hispanic elites named in the article are Binyamin Applebaum, Raj Chetty, Julian Castro, Peter Ganong, Robert Collinson, and MaryAnn Russ.
     
    While on a superficial aka skin deep level Mr Applebaum and perhaps Ms Russ technically are white as you have called them, they may be deeply offended that you have done so.

    In 2050 when "whites" will be a minority, I suspect they expect their progeny not only being in the majority but completely controlling it.
    , @ben tillman

    SWPLs and limousine liberals, preening as they deliver the latest “sucks to be you” message to Walmart whites.
     
    In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492.
  25. Yet another issue on which national republican politicians are silent. ( Including Trump. ) Do the Feds consider the effects of these policies on the destination communities?

  26. Reporter Applebaum uncritically repeats the claim of MaryAnn Russ, chief executive of the Dallas Housing Authority: “Also important was that the overall cost of the program did not increase.”

    In a recent interview on C-SPAN, the head of HUD’s Section 8 program made the same assertion.

    All together:

    * “The problem, officials have concluded, is that the subsidies were much too small. ”
    * “In Dallas, the maximum subsidy for a three-bedroom apartment is now just $850 in the cheapest ZIP codes, but as much as $1,840 in the most expensive ZIP codes.”
    * “the overall cost of the program did not increase.”

    Because New Math!

    • Replies: @anon
    "Because New Math!"

    Yeah, Steve said similar, but as a one-line critique it seems a bit disingenuous and entirely unworthy of the self-satisfaction infused snark. They're cutting the subsidies of those who stay behind so, in theory, there could be no cost increase.

    Not that I trust the administrators. The total cost could also stay same if they served significantly fewer people-- all sorts of ways to play with those numbers.

  27. One of the many perverse things about this idea is that many voucher-receivers simply prefer to stay in their neighborhoods, where their friends and family live. I would imagine it would be uncomfortable to be the only poor (black?) family in a wealthy neighborhood. It would be like me moving into an all-Sikh neighborhood — maybe the schools are good, but the social atmosphere is alien.

    But an $1800 per month voucher? That would be a huge increase in our family’s income. Where do I sign up?

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    One of the many perverse things about this idea is that many voucher-receivers simply prefer to stay in their neighborhoods, where their friends and family live. I would imagine it would be uncomfortable to be the only poor (black?) family in a wealthy neighborhood. It would be like me moving into an all-Sikh neighborhood....
     
    No, it wouldn't be -- unless you had a big brother with trillions of dollars of resources who would back you up in every conflict between you and your neighbors.
  28. Yeah, that’s like saying you’re going to spread out cancer, so it’s easier to treat.

  29. And the snowball begins with but a single snowflake. The first time one of these ghetto boys assaults a white kid, one white family lists their home for sale. Then a white dad finds his daughter texting a ghetto boy and another listing hits the market. Soon it is an exodus of whites leaving and prices are depressed enough to allow the Mexicans to buy. The Mexicans will duke it out with the ghetto negroes for the territory.

    White parents will tolerate their kids dressing and acting like wiggers until they begin showing up with the real thing. The first is just teens figuring out who they really are and the second will either kill them or leave their parents raising bastard mulatto children while mommy is in rehab.

    The good news is that Plano is just another white flight suburb. Developers will make tons of money building the next suburb down the highway. There is a LOT of cheap land in Texas.

  30. Section 8 housing: another program with no demonstrable success, so we have to try it even harder.

    Like the immigration debate, there is an unstated conclusion here that the home “country” cannot be fixed, so we get to indulge our helpful, public service nature by moving people to nicer places, thus earning some temporary gratitude. This does not work out in the long run, but like Keynes said, in the long run we are all dead, but why are we so intent on speeding up the process?

  31. SFG says:
    @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    Addendum: I’m not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution–without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.

    • Replies: @Paco Wové
    The 'mitigation through dilution' idea seems like a natural follow-on here, but as Sailer notes, it would probably be found to be illegal, aside from giving T.N. Coates an attack of the vapors.
    , @Immigrant from former USSR
    Dear SFG:
    Blogger "The Lion of the Blogosphere" (former "Half-sigma") sites a person whose name you must know, at least via the movie "The Social Network", Lawrence Summers, in the post
    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/larry-summers-has-been-reading-my-blog/
    Claims by "Lion" and Summers:

    So the challenge for economic policy will increasingly be generating enough work for all who need work for income, purchasing power and dignity. What will this require? The role of government was transformed to meet the needs of an industrial age by Gladstone, Bismarck and the two Roosevelts. We will need their equivalent if we are to meet the needs of the information age.

    This stuff is right out of my blog. Even if he hasn’t read my blog, you knew about the problem of the post-scarcity economy before prominent people like Summers were aware of them.

    A few months from now, will Summers suggest that the solution to unemployment is paying people to play World of Warcraft?
     

    P.S. Does you handle means that you are in San Francisco ?
    Your F.r.
    , @ben tillman

    Addendum: I’m not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution–without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.
     
    No, dilution makes the problem much, much worse. Instead of victimizing one another, they victimize us. And IQ has little to do with it.
    , @MarkinLA
    If you keep an eye on them the feds will come after you. LA county was dumping their trash in the Antelope Valley and the police were making them live up to the rental agreements. The trash didn't like it. In the latest offer from the feds they want the city of Lancaster to let the feds have control of the local Sheriff (Palmdale and Lancaster contract with the Sheriff for police services) and the city said no we won't through our police under the bus and challenged the feds to show any documented case where the police did not follow proper procedure.

    This the typical extortion by the DOJ - threaten the city with juge leagal fees.

    http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130702/doj-wants-la-county-lancaster-palmdale-to-pay-for-section-8-harassment
  32. I have a couple rental units in the suburbs of Chicago and manage a couple more for out of town friends. I wouldn’t accept a section 8 unless they were paying 20-25% over my next best offer and even then it probably isn’t worth the headache.

    Their bigger check doesn’t increase their appreciation for their living space or the value of money in general. They have no concept of the effort involved to earn the $4500/mo net that you should be earning in order to consider an $1840/mo. apartment.

  33. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Per your previous post about Minnesota: For African immigrants, St. Paul starting to feel more like home

    Thousands of African immigrants have landed in Minnesota after fleeing political persecution or civil war in their home countries. Others have been lured by the opportunity to continue their education at the University of Minnesota or accept jobs at major employers such as the Mayo Clinic and IBM.

    After decades of their numbers growing, they’ve pooled money to establish permanent community spaces where they can break bread and celebrate their language, culture and faith. Several are in St. Paul.

    Economist Bruce Corrie isn’t surprised. Corrie, a professor at Concordia University in St. Paul, believes the state’s African population produces $14 million in philanthropy within Minnesota each year, on top of $150 million in annual remittances to countries in Africa.

    In Minneapolis, the Cedar-Riverside neighborhood has been nicknamed “Little Mogadishu” because of its large Somali population. In 2013, Abdi Warsame made history by becoming the highest-ranking elected Somali official in the country when he won a seat on the Minneapolis City Council.

    A low-income high-rise in St. Paul’s Midway — the 500-unit Skyline Tower building at 1247 St. Anthony Ave. — has provided housing for the city’s growing Somali population, at one time earning it the nickname the “United Nations of the Sky.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Little Mogadishu?"

    Wasn't there a memorable movie about a day in the life of Big Mogadishu?

    Some like "Black Hawk Down?"

  34. In Chicago this has been going on for more than a decade. Downstate Illinois cities have born the brunt of the vouchers http://www.news-gazette.com/news/state/2005-08-14/public-housing-migration.html

    BTW Austin has some architectural gems as well http://www.choosechicago.com/blog/post/2013/11/Exploring-the-Architecture-of-Chicago-s-Austin-Neighrborhood/1041/

  35. Does sitting the dumb kid next to the smart kid work in a classroom?

    I was the smart kid that always got them…and it just led to me feeling guilty for other people’s problems.

    So no.

  36. Andy, Barney, Aunt Bee…

    I’d like you to meet your new neighbors: Porche, Mercedes, Binaca, Listerene, and Shaqueequee.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1436218568

  37. @SFG
    Addendum: I'm not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution--without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.

    The ‘mitigation through dilution’ idea seems like a natural follow-on here, but as Sailer notes, it would probably be found to be illegal, aside from giving T.N. Coates an attack of the vapors.

  38. You know that Ctrl-F game you always play with labor-force and wage stories?

    You can also play it with the latest crop of stories on Housing Justice. The neighborhoods being targeted are always labeled “affluent,” “expensive,” but never, ever described as…
    M-I-D-D-L-E C-L-A…

  39. Hey, Barney… did you leave the keys in the police car?

    You did… okay… well… guess what?

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=836_1436308932

  40. Sometime within the last two decades, in one of the border states, there was a detailed academic evaluation of a pilot program that involved dumping a bunch of Section 8 families into nice neighborhoods. The researchers found that this greatly improved the perceived quality of life for the Section 8 families in the program. But they were also honest enough to reveal that these people began fouling their nests from the day of their arrival: The areas around relocated Section 8 families experienced significant increases in reported crimes, incidents of civil disorder and other measures of social entropy. I caanot remember any other details. The study was actually reported in some MSM outlets. Perhaps Steve will remember the who, when, and where. I can’t.

    To me the key questions become: (1) Should an increase in the subjective happiness of a small number of dysfunctional and socially and economically useless persons be bought at the expense of very real discomforts experienced by a much larger number of their productive fellow citizens? and (2) Should government at any level be involved in imposing such dysfunctional and destructive persons on innocent people, selected purely because they do not have the political clout to stand against this onslaught?

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    I believe a study was done in Memphis, where they noticed that crime patterns had fanned out into the suburbs, right into the areas where the new section 8 vouchers went.
    , @Fredrik
    The people selected for these vouchers should be screened first so that they have no criminal records and that they are basically decent people.

    If we ignore the racial aspect of it for a while it's been tried time after time in schools to mix low and high performers because it's assumed the low performers will be motivated by that. It never occurs to anyone who decides these things that whenever it works it always works the other way around. The low performers drag everyone else down.
  41. I forget. When was the vote when the electorate approved all this?

  42. The whole thing reminds me of how the Soviets continually tinkered with their agriculture, which produced less grain than before the Bolshevik Revolution. They next fix they tried was no better than the previous ones, but they sure looked busy.

    This was nicely summarized by Srdja Trifkovic in Chronicles Magazine:
    ” The Soviet Communist Party used to devote a lot of attention to the problem of inefficient agriculture. The party’s Agrarian Policy Commission debated endlessly, throughout the final quarter-century of the Soviet state’s existence, how to improve the system. Should the state farm (sovkhoz) be made self-financing? Should the collective farm (kolkhoz) have its own heavy equipment, or should it depend on state-operated tractor stations? How to reconcile the principles of the command economy, with its procurement quotas and state-fixed prices, with the need to motivate peasants to produce more? What should be the maximum area of the private plot on which farmers can produce food for their own use and to supplement their incomes: a quarter-hectare or a half-hectare?

    The notion that both state and collective farms should be abolished, the price of produce determined by the market, and the land given back to peasants whose holdings should be limited only by their ability to work the land never entered the discussion. To make such a suggestion would have marked the end of an apparatchik’s political career and exposed him to all manner of unpleasantness. The solution to the problem of collectivized agriculture lay outside the ideological parameters of the decisionmaking community.”

    • Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle
    Agriculture is subsidized in all developed countries and soviet land couldn't be given back to peasants because they didn't own it. More exactly they owned it only briefly and the transitions from boyar ownership of the land to village ownership and finally the distribution of plots to individual peasants explain the food crises that occurred in Russia at the end of the imperial period and the beginning of the soviet period.
    It turns out that giving peasants land is not a good idea if they don't have capital for mechanization or the discipline and initiative to be self employed or if they move from producing for the market to autarchy (and the production of moonshine vodka) leaving the urban populations to starve. It's telling that Russia did not return the land to peasants even after the fall of communism.
    My point is that whoever was in charge of soviet agriculture didn't had easy solutions and the same can be said about those americans leaders confronted with the problem of hot potatoes, err, I mean, poor blacks.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Reminds me of my favorite Soviet story.....When asked how he liked living under communism an old farmer said....." I pretend I'm working, they pretend that they are paying me."
    , @Bill Jones
    I seem to recall the probably apocryphal story that the Soviets proposed that when communism had taken over the World, Switzerland was to remain capitalist for purposes of price discovery.
  43. The complete suburban breakdown in Ferguson last year shows there’s a problem.

    Florida’s and Brookes’ ‘Bo Ho’ vibrant urban solutions don’t cut it in terms of hi-density for most people.

    But blacks want to live in suburbs apparently.

  44. No doubt some readers got tired of my deep coverage of Chetty’s research, but it’s influential and almost nobody else is taking a skeptical look at what he’s found.

    I don’t think this point can be made too often. I’ve seen members of Conservative Inc repeating claims made by Chetty. It’s how the narrative is controlled. Chetty is working backward from his desired conclusion, filling up his claims with “big data” jargon. That satisfies his customers so the sale is made. Because the NYTimes controls the political debate, Conservative Inc. accepts the premise and goes to work on their own “free market” solution for moving poor blacks into your neighborhood.

    One of the things that has been lost to the mists of time is that this is not a new initiative. Progressive education reformers have been talking about housing reform being the key to school reform for decades. By reform, they mean compulsory integration. In a generation, you will need permission from HUD to sell your house so as to avoid disparate impact claims.

    • Replies: @pinto
    Oh yes. There were idiots commenting at that article insane things like zip codes determine life success. There are exactly no causal elements in the Chetty data mining "study" because if there were, they would be racist!!
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    > Progressive education reformers have been talking about housing reform being the key to school reform for decades

    Yes - because if you perch in the hen house, then you are a chicken.

    Correlation/causation confusion can be toxic. OTOH could this be the plan?

    Bring conditions about that ensure the destruction of suburbia; there is no downside for democrats - they lose more often than they win in the suburbs. Win-win!

    Take tax dollars from those whom you want to destroy, use the feds to enforce unlivable circumstances on those same hapless victims. At the same time you have transported the source of inner city problems away from white liberals; and the best part is that you can proudly proclaim your virtue in the process!

    What could possibly go wrong?
  45. not a lawyer, but seems like you might be able to have a policy of a section 8 house can only be so close to another section 8 house, which would defacto create the ‘black a block’ effect w/o it explicitly being a racial quota

  46. discussions of Section 8 vouchers need to come with discussions of explicit racial quotas to keep neighborhoods from being wiped out

    You are assuming that “wiping out” neighborhoods (ala Ferguson) is a bug not a feature. “Wiped out” = “Reliable Democrat voting precinct”. 90% of the geographic area of Pennsylvania, from the edge of Philadelphia to the edge of Pittsburgh, votes Republican in presidential elections but Philadelphia votes 85% Democrat (an advantage of over 400,000 votes) and this balances out literally dozens of rural counties that only have 10 or 20 thousand voters. In certain “wiped out” precincts in Philadelphia, more than 100% (yes, more – it’s Philadelphia) of the registered voters vote Democrat.

    There is an honored tradition in Philadelphia called “walking around money” – each ward leader is given an allocation of cash on election day that he is free to distribute to get people to the polls. Now for you or me, $5 or $10 might not be enough to get you off your ass and go to the polls, but for someone living in a wiped out neighborhood, a “foty” of malt liquor might do the trick.

  47. I dunno. If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile. I’d want better housing, but not too far from buddies. So I can see it’
    s hard to persuade them to move way out of their comfort zone.

    On the other hand, that hesitation works to keep a critical mass from forming in your wonderful white school district. Dilution is better for white nabes, but blacks want to have some black neighbors so once a foothold is established, it can cascade to such a point the toxins poison a good nabe. Of course this depends on landlords willing to enroll in section 8. Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    • Replies: @Ed
    The irony is study after study shows exactly what you point to, many welfare recipients don't want to move to these areas. Many bemoan the lack of community in these new places. The reformers don't care though.
    , @peterike

    If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile.

     

    Have you ever actually met a ghetto black? I can assure you, this is not their thought process. They think simply that they can go from doing nothing in a dirty city apartment to doing nothing in a nice clean house with a yard for their spawn and soon to be added pitbull. Of course, the house is dirty in short order, the yard is filled with refuse, but hey, that's because white people aren't paying for someone to come and clean it.

    Also, blacks don't mind standing out. They rather relish it, in fact. Because despite all the phony outrage going on, blacks know damn well they have next to nothing to fear from whites, and they know damn well how whites are mostly intimidated by blacks. They LOVE flaunting that in the faces of whites.
    , @anon

    If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile.
     
    You're missing out the part where the media lie through their teeth about black youth crime.

    As long as they're not physically hostile (and most white racial harassment is verbal) then for a woman like that whites are a hundred times less dangerous to your kid then the local black gang.
    , @anon
    "Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum."

    Lol, yes, you've indeed not thought this through. How does this community pressure work exactly? What are the repercussions for the out-of-state Carpet Bagger? What about an LLC with 100 investors?

    If 'stuff' is kept local, residents have a fighting chance of voting out developer co-opted politicians. But when it's federal, as this program is, all hope is lost.

    , @Brutusale
    If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where there's little chance that the teenager across the street isn't going to shoot your son on the playground and the nice white ladies, whatever crypto-racist thoughts may be running through their heads, aren't going to beat your ass for looking at them cross-eyed.

    I dunno, sounds good to me!
  48. Hey Steve, this was somewhat interesting. “An open letter from a black man to the people of Japan.” You can probably guess what he’s complaining about.

    http://www.locoinyokohama.com/2015/07/08/an-open-letter-to-japanese-people-from-black-men

  49. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:

    ” just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution–without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could as”

    yes, exactly. blacks are 45M and there is a limit as to how much damage they can do, if properly handled. true, they will destroy some neighborhoods & some lives* but the ultimate effect will be to destroy the black community. you have to be rational & cold-blooded about these things. & maybe most of the destroyed lives will be liberals, like kevin sutherland. tough luck but that’s karma.

    *http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/kevin-sutherland-dead-killed-washington-dc-metro-stabbing-victim-murder-american-university-graduate-suspect-jasper-spires-photos-pictures-facebook/

  50. Even at ‘a black a block,’ they’re going to be watched like hawks because minding potential sources of trouble is human nature. And when it fails, the excuse will be that whites oppressed them.

    Didn’t we go through this with education? ‘Blacks must go to school with whites or they are oppressed’ eventually came to ‘blacks must go to school with other blacks or they are oppressed.’ The excuse carousel never stops, and any failure is always the white man’s fault. Business as usual I guess.

  51. Now it’s all coming together. Raj Chetty isn’t being serious, he’s concocting a rationale to get blacks out of cities to help urban gentrification.

    • Replies: @anon
    yup
    , @AnAnon
    '“When you give somebody a voucher, it tends to be the case that they buy better-quality housing in the same neighborhood,” Mr. Ganong said. “That’s always been a disappointing fact within HUD.”' - Disappointing indeed.
  52. Would this be anything like the case of Memphis when a housing project was closed and people began noticing the increasing crime in the suburbs? It was a mystery until somebody did a study and found that the areas of increased crimes and the places the where the people who used to live in the project went to were a one-to-one match!.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/306872/
  53. Immigrant from former USSR [AKA "Florida Resident"] says:
    @SFG
    Addendum: I'm not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution--without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.

    Dear SFG:
    Blogger “The Lion of the Blogosphere” (former “Half-sigma”) sites a person whose name you must know, at least via the movie “The Social Network”, Lawrence Summers, in the post
    https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/larry-summers-has-been-reading-my-blog/
    Claims by “Lion” and Summers:

    So the challenge for economic policy will increasingly be generating enough work for all who need work for income, purchasing power and dignity. What will this require? The role of government was transformed to meet the needs of an industrial age by Gladstone, Bismarck and the two Roosevelts. We will need their equivalent if we are to meet the needs of the information age.

    This stuff is right out of my blog. Even if he hasn’t read my blog, you knew about the problem of the post-scarcity economy before prominent people like Summers were aware of them.

    A few months from now, will Summers suggest that the solution to unemployment is paying people to play World of Warcraft?

    P.S. Does you handle means that you are in San Francisco ?
    Your F.r.

  54. How much of the Dallas Housing Authority is controlled or influenced by the federal executive branch?

    These people are evil. Just targeting above average neighborhoods and communities to be flipped and demographically transformed, while cloaked in civil rights language. I wish there was something I could do to stop them beyond about it and get angry.

  55. But I just sort of tripped onto that body-essay by Coates: oh my God. This body trope has become something paganish, beyond oblivious: “When the journalist asked me about my body, it was like she was asking me to awaken her from the most gorgeous dream.” Incredible.

  56. @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    “Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble.”

    Nice theory, but that isn’t what actually happens. What actually happens is that you increase the area over which crime is taking place. There was an Atlantic article talking about two researchers in a large black city (Memphis, iirc) who explained that’s exactly what happened. Crime there used to mostly be contained in the projects. After Section 8 spread them around the city, the crime problem only grew worse.

    Yep, here it is.

    None of this is new. But I’m all for putting these folks in expensive, blue suburbs. Marin sounds like a good place to start.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    "I’m all for putting these folks in expensive, blue suburbs. Marin sounds like a good place to start." Here's another good place, Chappaqua - the Clinton 'hood. Obama can use "Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. The Inclusive Communities Project, Inc." to get Section 8 going there. Reporters should ask Hillary about this.
  57. @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he’d like.

    I hope you keep that bright idea to yourself.

    My experience has been that the number of blacks that is too few to cause trouble is zero. Just one recent example. I live in a small town that is over 90% white. Our neighborhood was all white. A black woman moved in up the street and her daughter and teen-aged grandson moved in down the street. The second family had been there about 2 weeks when the grandson “allegedly” started burglarizing neighborhood homes. Items reported to the police as stolen were found at his grandmother’s house. He was arrested. To add insult to injury, the grandmother and mother wrongly assumed one of their relative’s victims had reported him to police for drug use so they started a very nasty smear campaign against her on Facebook. When we moved in here ten years ago, people didn’t lock their doors. Now they do. The whole climate of the neighborhood has changed, not for the better.

    • Replies: @SFG
    OK. I stand corrected.

    No, handle has nothing to do with San Fran. It used to stand for 'science fiction geek' a long, long time ago, but now it's just an acronym--I missed the last two Star Trek movies.

    , @stillCARealist
    we had a very similar experience in Citrus Heights, CA. A section 8, large African American family moved in to our neighborhood and immediately there were problems. The police were there constantly because of various family fights and, as nice as they often were, it was a never-ending crisis home. Liberals need to experience this stuff first-hand. It will make them more personally compassionate and generally wiser.
    , @Gallo-Roman

    When we moved in here ten years ago, people didn’t lock their doors. Now they do. The whole climate of the neighborhood has changed, not for the better.
     
    Man, that sounds familiar. Our city started getting Section-8'ed a few years back, with the predictable results in the affected areas of town. But just this week there was a hitherto unheard of armed robbery a few blocks from us. Before then the problems seemed to be contained to the 8'ed neighborhoods, Apparently the wisdom of Willie Sutton has finally sunk in with our enrichers.

    Our neighborhood has until now has been out of the Section 8 voucher range, but I guess this administration is working hard to remove the inconvenience of recipients having to go all the way to another part of town in order to vibrantize the lives of the inhabitants.
  58. the story stresses ‘decent’ blacks moving away from violence.

    it doesn’t mention those doing the violence also get to move to suburbs.

    • Replies: @anon
    Yes it starts with women trying to get their kids away from the gang culture but they are followed by their cousins... etc
  59. Where is Trump on this?

    Oh yeah, he’s too busy blaming Mexicans for black problems, i.e. blacks don’t have jobs cuz Mexicans took them.

    Never mind many blacks are unfit to work at any job.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Where is Trump on this?

    Even though Trump is the only candidate who has the guts to take on the most important hot-button issue that will determine our national survival, and is standing up against a hatestorm as a result, let's put him down because he's not taking on EVERY hot button issue. Oh yeah, that's the way to advance the conservative agenda.
    , @Lugash
    We're stuck with blacks in America. We're probably stuck with the mestizos that are already here, but not adding another 10, 20 or 30 million more would be a good thing. If Trump forces a debate on this, good for him. And good for us.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Man, Soros must really be cranking out the paychecks for his own personal Hasbara. All of a sudden there's a lot of posters springing up like mushrooms bad mouthing the only guy willing to talk truth to power about immigration versus more triple bank shot dog whistle BS.
    , @Jefferson
    "Where is Trump on this?

    Oh yeah, he’s too busy blaming Mexicans for black problems, i.e. blacks don’t have jobs cuz Mexicans took them.

    Never mind many blacks are unfit to work at any job."

    Anon are you Mexican? Or is your wife Mexican? Because you always have nice things to say about Mexicans. I have never seen you say anything negative about Mexicans. I think you even enjoy the mass presence of Mexicans in the U.S. Is it because you are poor lower working class and there for can relate more with blue collar Mexicans working at The Home Depot for example.
  60. Joel Kotkin has been reporting on the Obama administration’s war on the suburbs for years now. He’s really the only one that’s been reporting on this story:

    http://www.joelkotkin.com/content/00143-war-against-suburbia

  61. The government has tried before to fix the rent subsidy program. In the early 1990s, an experiment called Moving to Opportunity required some families to use their vouchers in more expensive neighborhoods.

    A reference to the “Move To Opportunity” program. In Baltimore — which has been back in the news, as you may have heard — one of the targeted destinations was the close-in neighborhood of Rosedale. Its 21237 is very much not a SuperZip, with its ranking of 7,406 from the top (out of 23,610), and its median family income of $73,000.

    The dewey-eyed editorial writers of the progressive Baltimore Sun did their part to cram vibrancy down Rosedale’s throat, alas, to no avail. That time.

  62. This sort of validates that when somebody says “race” what they really mean is culture. By plunking somebody from the ghetto down in someplace where (dysfunctional) ghetto culture – nothing more than sharecropper culture transplanted to the cities – will *not* be tolerated, you have the possibility in the minds of it proponents that some sort of cultural change will be affected. And it will, as long as 1) they want to change, and 2) they aren’t clustered.

    But that doesn’t happen unfortunately. They still have friends and relatives in the ghetto with whom they’ll maintain contact. Their friends will call and come to visit. They’ll be accused of “Acting White,” i.e. Mainstream. Various “Race Professionals” will denounce such a program as “Cultural Genocide.” And so on and so forth.

    And then your problems will really start. (Inglewood. Hawthorne. Lawndale. West L.A. South of Pico….)

    There goes the neighbourhood

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

  63. Where is GOP on this?

    Oh yeah, too busy worshiping MLK and doting on Romney family’s adopted black baby to show that they are not ‘racist’.

  64. Same logic as with derivatives.

    Mix the toxic loans with the good loans.

    Mix the toxic demographics with good demographics.

  65. This is why GOP’s support of likes of Giuliani and revival of cities was stupid.

    If cities had fallen, Lib power would have gone down.

    Also, as Libs would have fled to suburbs, they would have grown more conservative.

    Coulter should not defend ‘stop and frisk’.

  66. Gun grabbers don’t like Plano because it has a high rate of gun ownership and one of the lowest murder rates in the country. Moving fatherless inner city youth in on the public’s dime is the best way to fix this

  67. Send them all to Vermont.

  68. I guess moving all the black Africans to Europe will turn them into hardworking Europeans.

    Solution for Greece. Send them all to Germany.

    Solution for Puerto Rico. Send them all to Manhattan.

    Odd, but PR community in NY lags behind Jews and other successful groups by a mile.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Odd, but PR community in NY lags behind Jews and other successful groups by a mile."

    Mexicans also lag behind Jews and other successful groups in The Bay Area, Los Angeles, and San Deigo metropolitan areas by a mile yet you have no problem with the the never ending flow of Mexicans entering the U.S.

    So how are Mexicans any different from Puerto Ricans when it comes to being underachievers. Latin America in general is just a huge region of mediocrity.
  69. We hear so much crap about legacy of ‘Jim Crow’ but nothing about the ‘genecy’ of racial differences.

  70. Obama Administration to Ensure Everyone’s Upbringing Matches Ta-Nehisi Coates’

    “All these folks will get a chance to practice their bop,” administration officials said.

  71. So….instead of actually using the vouchers as a way to “revitalize” the ghettos the Barack Administration wants to put money into wealthier neighborhoods and bring vibrant ones to spread the chaos around…brilliant.

  72. eah says:

    Like I said before in the context of stories about immigration: anytime you see “families” in the headline, you know you’re about to be bullshitted. Yeah, “families”; what is the illegitimacy rate for black women again? In addition, I’d like to know how many black women have illegitimate kids by more than one man (note I did not say father). I’m sure that on average such “families” make swell neighbors.

  73. @Kylie

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he’d like.
     
    I hope you keep that bright idea to yourself.

    My experience has been that the number of blacks that is too few to cause trouble is zero. Just one recent example. I live in a small town that is over 90% white. Our neighborhood was all white. A black woman moved in up the street and her daughter and teen-aged grandson moved in down the street. The second family had been there about 2 weeks when the grandson "allegedly" started burglarizing neighborhood homes. Items reported to the police as stolen were found at his grandmother's house. He was arrested. To add insult to injury, the grandmother and mother wrongly assumed one of their relative's victims had reported him to police for drug use so they started a very nasty smear campaign against her on Facebook. When we moved in here ten years ago, people didn't lock their doors. Now they do. The whole climate of the neighborhood has changed, not for the better.

    OK. I stand corrected.

    No, handle has nothing to do with San Fran. It used to stand for ‘science fiction geek’ a long, long time ago, but now it’s just an acronym–I missed the last two Star Trek movies.

  74. The rolling pogrom against white children rolls on.

    Anyone who thought they were only going to target prole white kids and you were going to be able to buy safety for yours – think again.

  75. @countenance
    Now it's all coming together. Raj Chetty isn't being serious, he's concocting a rationale to get blacks out of cities to help urban gentrification.

    yup

  76. @countenance
    Now it's all coming together. Raj Chetty isn't being serious, he's concocting a rationale to get blacks out of cities to help urban gentrification.

    ‘“When you give somebody a voucher, it tends to be the case that they buy better-quality housing in the same neighborhood,” Mr. Ganong said. “That’s always been a disappointing fact within HUD.”’ – Disappointing indeed.

  77. @Kylie

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he’d like.
     
    I hope you keep that bright idea to yourself.

    My experience has been that the number of blacks that is too few to cause trouble is zero. Just one recent example. I live in a small town that is over 90% white. Our neighborhood was all white. A black woman moved in up the street and her daughter and teen-aged grandson moved in down the street. The second family had been there about 2 weeks when the grandson "allegedly" started burglarizing neighborhood homes. Items reported to the police as stolen were found at his grandmother's house. He was arrested. To add insult to injury, the grandmother and mother wrongly assumed one of their relative's victims had reported him to police for drug use so they started a very nasty smear campaign against her on Facebook. When we moved in here ten years ago, people didn't lock their doors. Now they do. The whole climate of the neighborhood has changed, not for the better.

    we had a very similar experience in Citrus Heights, CA. A section 8, large African American family moved in to our neighborhood and immediately there were problems. The police were there constantly because of various family fights and, as nice as they often were, it was a never-ending crisis home. Liberals need to experience this stuff first-hand. It will make them more personally compassionate and generally wiser.

  78. Kylie and SFG…The Median asking price for a house in my Buffalo suburban town is $450K ( Zillow) and Median rent is $1450 per month. A few years ago a friend sold his house here for $325K and moved to a “better” part of town. He said the houses were too close together and he wanted some space and a reduced chance of an unsavory person moving next door or behind him. He spent $780K on his new digs . The house across the street from him came up for sale and the buyer is the owner of a chain of Adult Video stores you see along the interstate. Strange people visit often. I think he’d take his old house back and have a black on either side of him.

  79. eah says:
    @eah
    Like I said before in the context of stories about immigration: anytime you see "families" in the headline, you know you're about to be bullshitted. Yeah, "families"; what is the illegitimacy rate for black women again? In addition, I'd like to know how many black women have illegitimate kids by more than one man (note I did not say father). I'm sure that on average such "families" make swell neighbors.
  80. Ed says:
    @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    This has been tried, in fact it’s the failure of what you suggest that is driving this latest Obama push.

    What happens is you move a handful of these families to nice suburbs & their younger male relatives/boyfriends cause havoc. People move and the area becomes a slum. Hope VI is such an abject failure in SE DC that there is a movement of upwardly mobile blacks to ban any more affordable housing in the Ward.

  81. @newyorker
    I dunno. If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile. I'd want better housing, but not too far from buddies. So I can see it'
    s hard to persuade them to move way out of their comfort zone.

    On the other hand, that hesitation works to keep a critical mass from forming in your wonderful white school district. Dilution is better for white nabes, but blacks want to have some black neighbors so once a foothold is established, it can cascade to such a point the toxins poison a good nabe. Of course this depends on landlords willing to enroll in section 8. Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    The irony is study after study shows exactly what you point to, many welfare recipients don’t want to move to these areas. Many bemoan the lack of community in these new places. The reformers don’t care though.

  82. The tipping point seems to be an increase to 15-30% of NAM influx, far less if booming rap, pit bulls, porch drinking and garish behavior become the new normal. Once White norms are sufficiently interfered with, most suburban neighborhoods are down for the count.

  83. I suspect as this policy comes to light the Dems will back away. The WaPo article about this has about 1500+ comments and they are uniformly against.

    The NYT commenters aren’t thrilled with this either. Nothing flips Dems into GOP voters quicker than busing or housing.

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    "Nothing flips Dems into GOP voters quicker than busing or housing."

    How about "Nothing turns progressives into conservatives faster than subjecting them to the diversity they wish to impose on everyone else"?
  84. @Undocumented Shopper
    The whole thing reminds me of how the Soviets continually tinkered with their agriculture, which produced less grain than before the Bolshevik Revolution. They next fix they tried was no better than the previous ones, but they sure looked busy.

    This was nicely summarized by Srdja Trifkovic in Chronicles Magazine:
    " The Soviet Communist Party used to devote a lot of attention to the problem of inefficient agriculture. The party’s Agrarian Policy Commission debated endlessly, throughout the final quarter-century of the Soviet state’s existence, how to improve the system. Should the state farm (sovkhoz) be made self-financing? Should the collective farm (kolkhoz) have its own heavy equipment, or should it depend on state-operated tractor stations? How to reconcile the principles of the command economy, with its procurement quotas and state-fixed prices, with the need to motivate peasants to produce more? What should be the maximum area of the private plot on which farmers can produce food for their own use and to supplement their incomes: a quarter-hectare or a half-hectare?

    The notion that both state and collective farms should be abolished, the price of produce determined by the market, and the land given back to peasants whose holdings should be limited only by their ability to work the land never entered the discussion. To make such a suggestion would have marked the end of an apparatchik’s political career and exposed him to all manner of unpleasantness. The solution to the problem of collectivized agriculture lay outside the ideological parameters of the decisionmaking community."

    Agriculture is subsidized in all developed countries and soviet land couldn’t be given back to peasants because they didn’t own it. More exactly they owned it only briefly and the transitions from boyar ownership of the land to village ownership and finally the distribution of plots to individual peasants explain the food crises that occurred in Russia at the end of the imperial period and the beginning of the soviet period.
    It turns out that giving peasants land is not a good idea if they don’t have capital for mechanization or the discipline and initiative to be self employed or if they move from producing for the market to autarchy (and the production of moonshine vodka) leaving the urban populations to starve. It’s telling that Russia did not return the land to peasants even after the fall of communism.
    My point is that whoever was in charge of soviet agriculture didn’t had easy solutions and the same can be said about those americans leaders confronted with the problem of hot potatoes, err, I mean, poor blacks.

    • Replies: @Ed
    The leaders of post Revolution Haiti quickly learned that. In one region of the country, think the southern part the leader attempted to reinstated slavery in order for export production to resume. In the other half the land was given to ex-slaves. They just grew enough to consume, if that.
    The land would be subdivided on a ad hoc basis each generation until nobody knew who owned what. Meanwhile trees were just cut for fuel now there are virtually no trees left.
  85. @Ed
    I suspect as this policy comes to light the Dems will back away. The WaPo article about this has about 1500+ comments and they are uniformly against.

    The NYT commenters aren't thrilled with this either. Nothing flips Dems into GOP voters quicker than busing or housing.

    “Nothing flips Dems into GOP voters quicker than busing or housing.”

    How about “Nothing turns progressives into conservatives faster than subjecting them to the diversity they wish to impose on everyone else”?

    • Replies: @Kauai
    In our parents' generation, the saying went as follows: a conservative is a liberal that just got mugged. Muggings were news in the old New York pre-Giuliani, like the Lindsay or Dinkins eras. Maybe they still are, but I wouldn't know anymore from the middle of the Pacific (sips tropical drink).
  86. @newyorker
    I dunno. If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile. I'd want better housing, but not too far from buddies. So I can see it'
    s hard to persuade them to move way out of their comfort zone.

    On the other hand, that hesitation works to keep a critical mass from forming in your wonderful white school district. Dilution is better for white nabes, but blacks want to have some black neighbors so once a foothold is established, it can cascade to such a point the toxins poison a good nabe. Of course this depends on landlords willing to enroll in section 8. Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile.

    Have you ever actually met a ghetto black? I can assure you, this is not their thought process. They think simply that they can go from doing nothing in a dirty city apartment to doing nothing in a nice clean house with a yard for their spawn and soon to be added pitbull. Of course, the house is dirty in short order, the yard is filled with refuse, but hey, that’s because white people aren’t paying for someone to come and clean it.

    Also, blacks don’t mind standing out. They rather relish it, in fact. Because despite all the phony outrage going on, blacks know damn well they have next to nothing to fear from whites, and they know damn well how whites are mostly intimidated by blacks. They LOVE flaunting that in the faces of whites.

  87. This will be happening more and more as our cities get nicer and repopulated with middle and upper middle class types and gain corresponding political power.

    “You want $5 billion in taxpayer money for a freeway expansion to the distant exurbs? Okay, but you’ve got to take a bunch of Section 8s as well”

  88. attilathehen [AKA "Matilda"] says:
    @Wilkey
    "Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble."

    Nice theory, but that isn't what actually happens. What actually happens is that you increase the area over which crime is taking place. There was an Atlantic article talking about two researchers in a large black city (Memphis, iirc) who explained that's exactly what happened. Crime there used to mostly be contained in the projects. After Section 8 spread them around the city, the crime problem only grew worse.

    Yep, here it is.

    None of this is new. But I'm all for putting these folks in expensive, blue suburbs. Marin sounds like a good place to start.

    “I’m all for putting these folks in expensive, blue suburbs. Marin sounds like a good place to start.” Here’s another good place, Chappaqua – the Clinton ‘hood. Obama can use “Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. The Inclusive Communities Project, Inc.” to get Section 8 going there. Reporters should ask Hillary about this.

  89. @MarkinLA
    Would this be anything like the case of Memphis when a housing project was closed and people began noticing the increasing crime in the suburbs? It was a mystery until somebody did a study and found that the areas of increased crimes and the places the where the people who used to live in the project went to were a one-to-one match!.
    • Replies: @anon
    The cop in that article has the archetypal cop face.
  90. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    “Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause problems.

    I know a woman who considers herself very Progressive and who claims to favor diversity, but who decided it was in her family’s best interests to move to the whitest suburb (in a different but very nearby county, with no busing) in the area where we live because of a single boy in her son’s first grade class who kept trying to catch glimpses of the girls’ underpants. She said she wasn’t comfortable having her somewhat younger twin daughters attend a school where there were kids like this boy. Generally, this public school is populated by children from generally very affluent families, but there are also some underprivileged students who attend it (I think they are bused in).

  91. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    They say ‘action speaks louder than words’, but does it?

    If someone, in terms of action, becomes fabulously rich by questionable means, chooses a safe white neighborhood, and obsesses about gaining more privilege BUT says all the proper PC things…

    would he end up worse off than

    someone who, in terms of action, chooses an integrated neighborhood, never cheats in business, and supports programs for social equality BUT says un-PC HBD things?

    A man who is Bull Connors in action but Tim Wise in words is likely to be better off than someone who is Tim Wise in action but Bull Connors in words.

  92. Even before the voucher program there has been significant white flight in suburban Dallas high schools.

    According to the site Schooldigger, Lancaster High was 65% white in 1988 and 2.1% white in 2013. Garland High was 67% white in 1988 and 19.8% white in 2013. Even Plano High has gone from 93.1% white to 53.5% white, although Plano has seen a large increase in Asians, from 3.2% to 22.5%.

  93. @Anon
    Where is Trump on this?

    Oh yeah, he's too busy blaming Mexicans for black problems, i.e. blacks don't have jobs cuz Mexicans took them.

    Never mind many blacks are unfit to work at any job.

    Where is Trump on this?

    Even though Trump is the only candidate who has the guts to take on the most important hot-button issue that will determine our national survival, and is standing up against a hatestorm as a result, let’s put him down because he’s not taking on EVERY hot button issue. Oh yeah, that’s the way to advance the conservative agenda.

  94. @Kylie

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he’d like.
     
    I hope you keep that bright idea to yourself.

    My experience has been that the number of blacks that is too few to cause trouble is zero. Just one recent example. I live in a small town that is over 90% white. Our neighborhood was all white. A black woman moved in up the street and her daughter and teen-aged grandson moved in down the street. The second family had been there about 2 weeks when the grandson "allegedly" started burglarizing neighborhood homes. Items reported to the police as stolen were found at his grandmother's house. He was arrested. To add insult to injury, the grandmother and mother wrongly assumed one of their relative's victims had reported him to police for drug use so they started a very nasty smear campaign against her on Facebook. When we moved in here ten years ago, people didn't lock their doors. Now they do. The whole climate of the neighborhood has changed, not for the better.

    When we moved in here ten years ago, people didn’t lock their doors. Now they do. The whole climate of the neighborhood has changed, not for the better.

    Man, that sounds familiar. Our city started getting Section-8’ed a few years back, with the predictable results in the affected areas of town. But just this week there was a hitherto unheard of armed robbery a few blocks from us. Before then the problems seemed to be contained to the 8’ed neighborhoods, Apparently the wisdom of Willie Sutton has finally sunk in with our enrichers.

    Our neighborhood has until now has been out of the Section 8 voucher range, but I guess this administration is working hard to remove the inconvenience of recipients having to go all the way to another part of town in order to vibrantize the lives of the inhabitants.

  95. @Undocumented Shopper
    The whole thing reminds me of how the Soviets continually tinkered with their agriculture, which produced less grain than before the Bolshevik Revolution. They next fix they tried was no better than the previous ones, but they sure looked busy.

    This was nicely summarized by Srdja Trifkovic in Chronicles Magazine:
    " The Soviet Communist Party used to devote a lot of attention to the problem of inefficient agriculture. The party’s Agrarian Policy Commission debated endlessly, throughout the final quarter-century of the Soviet state’s existence, how to improve the system. Should the state farm (sovkhoz) be made self-financing? Should the collective farm (kolkhoz) have its own heavy equipment, or should it depend on state-operated tractor stations? How to reconcile the principles of the command economy, with its procurement quotas and state-fixed prices, with the need to motivate peasants to produce more? What should be the maximum area of the private plot on which farmers can produce food for their own use and to supplement their incomes: a quarter-hectare or a half-hectare?

    The notion that both state and collective farms should be abolished, the price of produce determined by the market, and the land given back to peasants whose holdings should be limited only by their ability to work the land never entered the discussion. To make such a suggestion would have marked the end of an apparatchik’s political career and exposed him to all manner of unpleasantness. The solution to the problem of collectivized agriculture lay outside the ideological parameters of the decisionmaking community."

    Reminds me of my favorite Soviet story…..When asked how he liked living under communism an old farmer said…..” I pretend I’m working, they pretend that they are paying me.”

    • Replies: @27 year old
    I say that all the time at my job
  96. @Anon
    Where is Trump on this?

    Oh yeah, he's too busy blaming Mexicans for black problems, i.e. blacks don't have jobs cuz Mexicans took them.

    Never mind many blacks are unfit to work at any job.

    We’re stuck with blacks in America. We’re probably stuck with the mestizos that are already here, but not adding another 10, 20 or 30 million more would be a good thing. If Trump forces a debate on this, good for him. And good for us.

  97. @Anon
    Where is Trump on this?

    Oh yeah, he's too busy blaming Mexicans for black problems, i.e. blacks don't have jobs cuz Mexicans took them.

    Never mind many blacks are unfit to work at any job.

    Man, Soros must really be cranking out the paychecks for his own personal Hasbara. All of a sudden there’s a lot of posters springing up like mushrooms bad mouthing the only guy willing to talk truth to power about immigration versus more triple bank shot dog whistle BS.

  98. iSteveFan says:
    @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    SFG, blacks comprise 13 percent of the population nationwide, though they are highly clustered. If a benevolent leader wanted to do what you suggested, why not just spread the entire black population equally across all fifty states so that each town, city, county and state had a 13 percent black populace? Of course this would cause dramatic improvements for places like Detroit. But what would a 13 percent black population do to places like Maine?

    It might be better for the blacks to spread them out. But it clearly is not better for everyone else. Though I have no scientific data to back this up, it appears that when the black percentage of an area reaches as little as 5 percent, people notice. At 10 percent people with the means look to get their kids into different schools. To try to level out the black population into areas previously untouched would be akin to violating the human rights of the current inhabitants.

    Of course I could change my mind if you began this experiment in places like Chappaqua and Malibu.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    Even one (1) typical Negro underclass "family", i.e., unwed mother with half-sib children, transient sexual partners and visiting realtives can make a neighborhood unlivable. There are plenty of very nice middle-class Negro families but all too often their children regress to the mean and neighbors experience all the harassments to which they would be subject if a representative of the Negro underclass were living nearby.

    There's somewhere upwards of forty million Negroes in this country. About half are Negro underclass and another quarter are border-line. No white person in their right mind wants to live near even one of these people. The other quarter are fine but tend to drag in their wake underclass relatives and acquaintances. The end result is that even a very small percentage of decent Negro in-migrants drives a neighborhood over the edge very quickly. I've personally experienced this three times already in my life; each time, fortunately, in a place that was not my permanent home.

    Until some kind of practical eugenics program comes along we're stuck with this mess. The best option for dealing with it wopuld be extreme segregation coupled with the very strong social controls which may compel Negro conformity to decent standards of behavior. [ Interestingly the social controls I envision are very like those that seem to evolve naturally among bush villages in Africa. These are definitely not the kind of villages Hil imagined in her infamous ghost-written screed on how to raise children. ] The last sixty years of "progressive" racial policies have been an even bigger disaster for American Negroes than for American Whiters. But only a revolution can change things at this poiint.
  99. @Anon
    Where is Trump on this?

    Oh yeah, he's too busy blaming Mexicans for black problems, i.e. blacks don't have jobs cuz Mexicans took them.

    Never mind many blacks are unfit to work at any job.

    “Where is Trump on this?

    Oh yeah, he’s too busy blaming Mexicans for black problems, i.e. blacks don’t have jobs cuz Mexicans took them.

    Never mind many blacks are unfit to work at any job.”

    Anon are you Mexican? Or is your wife Mexican? Because you always have nice things to say about Mexicans. I have never seen you say anything negative about Mexicans. I think you even enjoy the mass presence of Mexicans in the U.S. Is it because you are poor lower working class and there for can relate more with blue collar Mexicans working at The Home Depot for example.

  100. @Anon
    I guess moving all the black Africans to Europe will turn them into hardworking Europeans.

    Solution for Greece. Send them all to Germany.

    Solution for Puerto Rico. Send them all to Manhattan.

    Odd, but PR community in NY lags behind Jews and other successful groups by a mile.

    “Odd, but PR community in NY lags behind Jews and other successful groups by a mile.”

    Mexicans also lag behind Jews and other successful groups in The Bay Area, Los Angeles, and San Deigo metropolitan areas by a mile yet you have no problem with the the never ending flow of Mexicans entering the U.S.

    So how are Mexicans any different from Puerto Ricans when it comes to being underachievers. Latin America in general is just a huge region of mediocrity.

  101. Doug says:
    @SFG
    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they're too few to cause trouble. One blot of 'diversity' can easily be watched and monitored, though the local sheriff will probably be busier than he'd like. Of course, you'd have to come up with some social science-y way of talking about this so it doesn't sound like you're being racial--avoiding 'concentrations of poverty' or some such thing.

    > you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored,

    Social science research has actually found the opposite. When all the social undesirables are concentrated in a single confined area, that area certainly has crime, but they largely confine themselves to terrorizing each other. (Not to mention thugs don’t make easy victims, so its harder to commit crime against other thugs). When you spread out the hoodlums across the city, each tends to commit much more crime per capita in their new middle-class neighborhood filled with soft targets. There was actually a really good article about this a few years back:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/306872/

    • Replies: @FWIW
    Doug ...

    The Atlantic article seems to have quickly hit a dead end.

    What has been going on is that the central city areas are actually valuable, being close to museums, cultural facilities, &c. Worth gentrifying. Whereas the older, inner neighborhoods and suburbs are of much less value.

    Everything that anyone needs to know is part of the history of Cabrini Green. A lightly fictionalized version is part of the plot line of the television series, Boss, staring Kelsey Grammar. http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/08/17/703911/boss/

    I think there were some academic objections to the research, and as long as there was a shred of evidence refuting the thesis, it was sufficient for the argument to be ignored by academics.

  102. Plano is already down to being only 58 percent White because they have such a large Mexican and Asian population. Isn’t that diversity enough? Or is diversity nowadays just code word for African Americans?

    Plano, Texas is not exactly Boise, Idaho level of Whiteness unless your definition of “White” is automatically lumping all groups who are not African American into the “White” category.

  103. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Obama and HUD are planning to enact a rule, Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing, that would force suburbs to integrate, so that they will be less white. Furthermore, HUD Secretary Julian Castro is considered a likely VP candidate on Hillary’s presidential ticket. From what I can tell, this rule first received a lot of attention in 2013. For instance, an August 2013 U.S. News and World Report article from then said,

    “The Department of Housing and Urban Development has proposed a new plan to change U.S. neighborhoods it says are racially imbalanced or are too tilted toward rich or poor, arguing the country’s housing policies have not been effective at creating the kind of integrated communities the agency had hoped for.”

    From a Washington Post article today (7/8/2015),

    “When the Fair Housing Act was passed in 1968, it barred the outright racial discrimination that was then routine. It also required the government to go one step further — to actively dismantle segregation and foster integration in its place — a mandate that for decades has been largely forgotten, neglected and unenforced.

    “Now, on Wednesday, the Obama administration will announce long-awaited rules designed to repair the law’s unfulfilled promise and promote the kind of racially integrated neighborhoods that have long eluded deeply segregated cities like Chicago and Baltimore. The new rules, a top demand of civil-rights groups, will require cities and towns all over the country to scrutinize their housing patterns for racial bias and to publicly report, every three to five years, the results. Communities will also have to set goals, which will be tracked over time, for how they will further reduce segregation.”

    As Steve as noted, there has been a more insistent drumbeat about the national affordable housing crisis and the efforts to solve this problem by shifting lower income people out to the suburbs, which in turn allows gentrification of valuable urban areas. This plan will undoubtedly affect voting patterns, as well, and quite possibly contribute to a deterioration of any sense of community in suburbs.

    I have seen little mention of immigration in articles I’ve read about the affordable housing crisis.

    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/08/09/hud-proposes-plan-to-racially-economically-integrate-neighborhoods

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/08/obama-administration-to-unveil-major-new-rules-targeting-segregation-across-u-s/

  104. FWIW says:
    @Doug
    > you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble. One blot of ‘diversity’ can easily be watched and monitored,

    Social science research has actually found the opposite. When all the social undesirables are concentrated in a single confined area, that area certainly has crime, but they largely confine themselves to terrorizing each other. (Not to mention thugs don't make easy victims, so its harder to commit crime against other thugs). When you spread out the hoodlums across the city, each tends to commit much more crime per capita in their new middle-class neighborhood filled with soft targets. There was actually a really good article about this a few years back:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/306872/

    Doug …

    The Atlantic article seems to have quickly hit a dead end.

    What has been going on is that the central city areas are actually valuable, being close to museums, cultural facilities, &c. Worth gentrifying. Whereas the older, inner neighborhoods and suburbs are of much less value.

    Everything that anyone needs to know is part of the history of Cabrini Green. A lightly fictionalized version is part of the plot line of the television series, Boss, staring Kelsey Grammar. http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/08/17/703911/boss/

    I think there were some academic objections to the research, and as long as there was a shred of evidence refuting the thesis, it was sufficient for the argument to be ignored by academics.

  105. Here’s a link to a June 2015 article from “The Hill” on the proposed Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing rule.

    http://thehill.com/regulation/244620-obamas-bid-to-diversify-wealthy-neighborhoods

    Also, this rule could result in a massive loss of wealth for people who currently dwell in suburbs.

    • Replies: @anon
    Actually a massive transfer of wealth from those who will lose money in the suburbs to those who will gain in the newly-gentrified areas - a massive robbery in fact - camouflaged with PC rhetoric.
  106. Do the people who come up with these brilliant ideas ever bother to check and see how they actually work out in practice?

    Several years ago, I was renting a place in a quiet, boring little neighborhood. One day a very, very downscale family (I use the term “family” loosely — there was no adult male among the bunch, and I was never able to work out exactly how everybody was related) moved into the house next door. I have no idea how they managed to end up in this neighborhood — it was not an expensive or upscale neighborhood, but it was very, very dull and the other people who lived there were well-behaved, mostly retirees.

    Anyhow, since they had very little interaction with their dull, quiet neighbors, their new surroundings did little to lift them up — but they did succeed in making things miserable for everybody around them. For the record, the “adults” (again I use the term loosely) were all white — although they had quite a few black acquaintances among the many, many pals that came by for the loud late-night parties they were always having, and a few of the kids were clearly mixed-race. We all got used to waking up in the middle of the night and seeing a couple of sheriff’s cruisers parked in front of that family’s house, lit up like a Christmas tree.

    One morning while walking my dog, I was treated to the spectacle of an argument between the oldest lady of the group and a boy who looked like he might be about 16 — he was apparently the boyfriend of this woman’s daughter. She was screaming at him that he needed to man up and get a job and take care of his baby. And I’ll never forget this — the dude was whining, literally whining in that annoying sullen-teenager way, about how he didn’t want a kid, didn’t want to have to get a boring-ass job, he wanted to move “up North” (he didn’t specify where) and live with his cool dad who worked on motorcycles and played in a band on the weekends. He had Big Plans and didn’t want no lame-ass wife and kid holding him back. No, I’m not exaggerating.

    Fine, so the adults were a hopeless case. But maybe growing up in a nice neighborhood would be beneficial to the kids?

    Fat chance. I don’t have kids of my own, but I can’t imagine any responsible parent would let their kids interact with the kids from this family. These little brats were fighting constantly — I don’t mean “little kid roughhousing,” I mean like actually punching and kicking each other really hard and drawing blood. Furthermore, these little heathens spoke in a stream of curse words. And these were little kids! I don’t think a single one of them was older than about 10, but they threw around “bitch” and “motherfucker” like they were in a biker bar — even the little girls talked that way. It was weird to hear that coming out of the mouth of a kid who looks like she’s only been out of diapers for a couple of years.

    One day we woke up and they were just gone. They apparently left in the middle of the night, and nobody knew where they went. When I looked in the windows of their house, it was completely trashed. The new owner had to have all the carpets replaced, all the electrical and plumbing fixtures replaced, and all the interior walls repainted.

    The basic idea of trying to remove people from a toxic environment is not totally without merit. There are doubtless some poor families that could really benefit from living in a better neighborhood. But they have to be families that are really committed to bettering themselves, that really want to be a useful part of their new communities and really want to cut ties to the old friends and habits on the wrong side of the tracks. And we all know you can’t put together something like that without a lot of Noticing, which is forbidden. I’m willing to bet that the successful “black-a-block” program in Oak Park was probably VERY selective about which blacks made the cut.

    • Replies: @Ex Machina
    "I don’t have kids of my own,"

    Please, for the love of all that if good and holy, reproduce. Please. It brings me endless agita that there are all these realists out there who don't have children of their own. If there is one way to beat the psychopaths who lord over us, it is to have children!
  107. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The commentator who said this is being driven by rich developers is right. These people are trying to turn the cities of the US into something like Paris, where the core is owned by rich whites, and the outer suburbs are a ring of violent, criminal minorities. The rich whites want to take over and keep the important areas of the cities for themselves.

    But if you’re one of those dumb sap middle-class white guys who owns a house in the outer suburbs, look out. Once the violent blacks move into your neighborhood and turn it into a criminal cesspit, the value of your house is going to plunge and take a lot of your net worth with it. Good look trying to use your house as an investment which you’re hoping will pay out well when you retire and sell it. You’re going to end up with a piece of property that has the value of a house in Detroit, with, mind you, a high property tax still slapped on it so the city can continue to pay for its employees and services.

    Section 8 blacks in your neighborhood will destroy your property–just by being there–as effectively as if they walked in and just kicked you right out of your house. And you’ll be too poor to own a house in the city’s inner core, which will be totally owned by the rich elites who will drive up the housing prices there to absurd levels and who don’t give a damn about you middle-class idiots. You’re just something to be trampled on during their rise to the top.

  108. This gives me an idea for George Lucas.

    Mr Lucas – Get the names and addresses of those Marin County officials and prominent residents who opposed Skywalker Ranch expansion plans. Use intermediaries to surreptitiously purchase homes as close as possible to your opponents (preferably next door). After purchasing a good number, have a confidant make your new neighbors an offer they can’t refuse. Either approve Skywalker Ranch plans or the house next door goes Section 8.

    Heck, you could move in actors to portray thugs.

  109. This is just a continuation of the whole awful mess that began in the 1940s in America. If you are into depressing reading of how this all began, and why cities like Detroit are in ruins and Chicago and Philadelphia are crime centers you can read it all in E Michael Jones’ book, “Slaughter of the Cities”.

    Reading it was as awful as watching a train wreck. It is terrible to see but you can’t take your eyes off it. It’s sad, terrible and disgusting, but it shows you how it was done and who the culprits were who brought this destruction to peaceful neighborhoods and cities.

  110. • Replies: @ben tillman

    LOL. Sailer mentioned.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus
     

    And, oddly, part of Sabrina Rubin Erdely's name is not mentioned.

    I added it, but we'll see whether it stays.

  111. An addendum to my post a few months ago about Section 8 and two local landlords (out of about a dozen) concerning the city next to mine, where I spend considerable time.

    The change to the city has been frightening–to those few here willing to cast a Sailerian eye. Theft and property crime has spiked to a level not seen here–ever. The local Y is the gym of choice for the local SWPLs, and theft there has gotten to the point where there was an article about it in the local paper. Violent teen crime is harder to track, as city government, the local press, the cops and especially the local real estate people are all in cahoots in keeping that stuff under wraps; word-of-mouth, however, tells a different story about increased fighting in the schools and on the playgrounds.

    The real story, though, is what can’t be measured. The city is talking about increased public works hours (paid for by a Prop 2 1/2 override; Prop 2 1/2 being the MA version of Cali’s Prop 13) to clean up increasing amounts of trash marring the downtown. The local mailboxes, along with some traffic signs, now sport gang tags. Wandering groups of black teens like to stroll around the downtown in packs, getting their jollies crowding the sidewalk to watch wimpy YT step off to let them by.

    It seems that this few blacks, which has only gone from 2% of the population to 8% in the last 5 years, shouldn’t be this much of a strain on a small city with a lot going for it, not the least that it’s the first heavily majority-white town on the subway north of the city. But because it’s a small city with zero buildable land, every time an old property hits the market it’s bought by a contractor or speculator, whereupon the lot that once had a single-family home now sports a four or six-unit building. With Section 8, the rent is always on time. The four largest landlords in the city now are all from out of town, so what do they care. And because the city has a nice, New England flavor with its nicer neighborhoods and active downtown, they are piggybacking on the civic propriety that predated their arrival. The cancer is just metastasizing.

    • Replies: @Ex Machina
    "The cancer is just metastasizing."

    It is, because the infected are too brainwashed to realize they're infected. "What? That big, black wart growing out of my pearly white skin? Nothing to be concerned about!"
  112. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @newyorker
    I dunno. If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile. I'd want better housing, but not too far from buddies. So I can see it'
    s hard to persuade them to move way out of their comfort zone.

    On the other hand, that hesitation works to keep a critical mass from forming in your wonderful white school district. Dilution is better for white nabes, but blacks want to have some black neighbors so once a foothold is established, it can cascade to such a point the toxins poison a good nabe. Of course this depends on landlords willing to enroll in section 8. Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile.

    You’re missing out the part where the media lie through their teeth about black youth crime.

    As long as they’re not physically hostile (and most white racial harassment is verbal) then for a woman like that whites are a hundred times less dangerous to your kid then the local black gang.

  113. The Federal Government is finally admitting that blacks can’t make it on their own.

  114. @Anon
    the story stresses 'decent' blacks moving away from violence.

    it doesn't mention those doing the violence also get to move to suburbs.

    Yes it starts with women trying to get their kids away from the gang culture but they are followed by their cousins… etc

  115. @Kylie
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/306872/

    The cop in that article has the archetypal cop face.

  116. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Sometime within the last two decades, in one of the border states, there was a detailed academic evaluation of a pilot program that involved dumping a bunch of Section 8 families into nice neighborhoods. The researchers found that this greatly improved the perceived quality of life for the Section 8 families in the program. But they were also honest enough to reveal that these people began fouling their nests from the day of their arrival: The areas around relocated Section 8 families experienced significant increases in reported crimes, incidents of civil disorder and other measures of social entropy. I caanot remember any other details. The study was actually reported in some MSM outlets. Perhaps Steve will remember the who, when, and where. I can't.

    To me the key questions become: (1) Should an increase in the subjective happiness of a small number of dysfunctional and socially and economically useless persons be bought at the expense of very real discomforts experienced by a much larger number of their productive fellow citizens? and (2) Should government at any level be involved in imposing such dysfunctional and destructive persons on innocent people, selected purely because they do not have the political clout to stand against this onslaught?

    I believe a study was done in Memphis, where they noticed that crime patterns had fanned out into the suburbs, right into the areas where the new section 8 vouchers went.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Other people have already linked to the article that was written by Hanna Rosin, who somehow seems to be involved in many of the things and people that are talked about here at iSteve.
  117. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Sometime within the last two decades, in one of the border states, there was a detailed academic evaluation of a pilot program that involved dumping a bunch of Section 8 families into nice neighborhoods. The researchers found that this greatly improved the perceived quality of life for the Section 8 families in the program. But they were also honest enough to reveal that these people began fouling their nests from the day of their arrival: The areas around relocated Section 8 families experienced significant increases in reported crimes, incidents of civil disorder and other measures of social entropy. I caanot remember any other details. The study was actually reported in some MSM outlets. Perhaps Steve will remember the who, when, and where. I can't.

    To me the key questions become: (1) Should an increase in the subjective happiness of a small number of dysfunctional and socially and economically useless persons be bought at the expense of very real discomforts experienced by a much larger number of their productive fellow citizens? and (2) Should government at any level be involved in imposing such dysfunctional and destructive persons on innocent people, selected purely because they do not have the political clout to stand against this onslaught?

    The people selected for these vouchers should be screened first so that they have no criminal records and that they are basically decent people.

    If we ignore the racial aspect of it for a while it’s been tried time after time in schools to mix low and high performers because it’s assumed the low performers will be motivated by that. It never occurs to anyone who decides these things that whenever it works it always works the other way around. The low performers drag everyone else down.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    This was my experience of schooling. In non-streamed classes the uncontrollable kids did their best to destroy the learning environment.

    This dilution idea is related to the brain's ability to fool itself that a small delta has no effect. Mash the pedal of your car momentarily and the fuel gauge stays level. Put a dab of paint thinner in the paint and it looks basically the same. But there will be an effect here, especially as it is not like throwing thinner in paint, it is like putting a clump of thick dark sand in white paint. There will be a difference and it will be negative.

    Fairest would be to make a new development removed from existing suburbs. Let the section 8 slumlords develop them. You get a Detroit in the desert somewhere but at least you don't f*** up life everywhere else.
  118. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Blacks are pouring into my Rocky Mtn town for some reason. I can’t figure out what’s going on. Everywhere I go I see them now. Every day. They work at WalMart or other chains. I was working for a tax office this year and had 3 of them in one day, Apr 15. One was a manager at Best Buy, transferred out from Milwaukee, and she had an unrelated guy living with her, named Leon or Bubba or something. No job. She made good money but had a lot of unpaid debt. One was a jolly trucker I could hardly understand. Another was an ex soldier looking to go to school here, also untintellible.

    I wonder if HUD is doing this to us? Normally it’s less than 1% black here and that still the official stat.

  119. Anyway, discussions of Section 8 vouchers need to come with discussions of explicit racial quotas to keep neighborhoods from being wiped out[…]

    I wonder how they’d manage that without being accused of hate. It’s OK to impose a minimum number of NAMs, but not a maximum one.

  120. @Mr. Blank
    Do the people who come up with these brilliant ideas ever bother to check and see how they actually work out in practice?

    Several years ago, I was renting a place in a quiet, boring little neighborhood. One day a very, very downscale family (I use the term "family" loosely — there was no adult male among the bunch, and I was never able to work out exactly how everybody was related) moved into the house next door. I have no idea how they managed to end up in this neighborhood — it was not an expensive or upscale neighborhood, but it was very, very dull and the other people who lived there were well-behaved, mostly retirees.

    Anyhow, since they had very little interaction with their dull, quiet neighbors, their new surroundings did little to lift them up — but they did succeed in making things miserable for everybody around them. For the record, the "adults" (again I use the term loosely) were all white — although they had quite a few black acquaintances among the many, many pals that came by for the loud late-night parties they were always having, and a few of the kids were clearly mixed-race. We all got used to waking up in the middle of the night and seeing a couple of sheriff's cruisers parked in front of that family's house, lit up like a Christmas tree.

    One morning while walking my dog, I was treated to the spectacle of an argument between the oldest lady of the group and a boy who looked like he might be about 16 — he was apparently the boyfriend of this woman's daughter. She was screaming at him that he needed to man up and get a job and take care of his baby. And I'll never forget this — the dude was whining, literally whining in that annoying sullen-teenager way, about how he didn't want a kid, didn't want to have to get a boring-ass job, he wanted to move "up North" (he didn't specify where) and live with his cool dad who worked on motorcycles and played in a band on the weekends. He had Big Plans and didn't want no lame-ass wife and kid holding him back. No, I'm not exaggerating.

    Fine, so the adults were a hopeless case. But maybe growing up in a nice neighborhood would be beneficial to the kids?

    Fat chance. I don't have kids of my own, but I can't imagine any responsible parent would let their kids interact with the kids from this family. These little brats were fighting constantly — I don't mean "little kid roughhousing," I mean like actually punching and kicking each other really hard and drawing blood. Furthermore, these little heathens spoke in a stream of curse words. And these were little kids! I don't think a single one of them was older than about 10, but they threw around "bitch" and "motherfucker" like they were in a biker bar — even the little girls talked that way. It was weird to hear that coming out of the mouth of a kid who looks like she's only been out of diapers for a couple of years.

    One day we woke up and they were just gone. They apparently left in the middle of the night, and nobody knew where they went. When I looked in the windows of their house, it was completely trashed. The new owner had to have all the carpets replaced, all the electrical and plumbing fixtures replaced, and all the interior walls repainted.

    The basic idea of trying to remove people from a toxic environment is not totally without merit. There are doubtless some poor families that could really benefit from living in a better neighborhood. But they have to be families that are really committed to bettering themselves, that really want to be a useful part of their new communities and really want to cut ties to the old friends and habits on the wrong side of the tracks. And we all know you can't put together something like that without a lot of Noticing, which is forbidden. I'm willing to bet that the successful "black-a-block" program in Oak Park was probably VERY selective about which blacks made the cut.

    “I don’t have kids of my own,”

    Please, for the love of all that if good and holy, reproduce. Please. It brings me endless agita that there are all these realists out there who don’t have children of their own. If there is one way to beat the psychopaths who lord over us, it is to have children!

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    @Mr. Blank

    “I don’t have kids of my own,”

    Please, for the love of all that if good and holy, reproduce. Please. It brings me endless agita that there are all these realists out there who don’t have children of their own. If there is one way to beat the psychopaths who lord over us, it is to have children
     

    My wife and I don't have kids and it's not for not wanting them. As is common with responsible people, we focused on school and a career before marrying and starting a family. But then, at a relatively older age, medical issues preventing reproduction become an issue. It was for us. My wife developed a medical condition which prevented us from having kids. We thought about adoption but it is too difficult ($ costs and time off from work). Both my wife and I would've loved to have kids, but it wasn't meant to be.
  121. @Brutusale
    An addendum to my post a few months ago about Section 8 and two local landlords (out of about a dozen) concerning the city next to mine, where I spend considerable time.

    The change to the city has been frightening--to those few here willing to cast a Sailerian eye. Theft and property crime has spiked to a level not seen here--ever. The local Y is the gym of choice for the local SWPLs, and theft there has gotten to the point where there was an article about it in the local paper. Violent teen crime is harder to track, as city government, the local press, the cops and especially the local real estate people are all in cahoots in keeping that stuff under wraps; word-of-mouth, however, tells a different story about increased fighting in the schools and on the playgrounds.

    The real story, though, is what can't be measured. The city is talking about increased public works hours (paid for by a Prop 2 1/2 override; Prop 2 1/2 being the MA version of Cali's Prop 13) to clean up increasing amounts of trash marring the downtown. The local mailboxes, along with some traffic signs, now sport gang tags. Wandering groups of black teens like to stroll around the downtown in packs, getting their jollies crowding the sidewalk to watch wimpy YT step off to let them by.

    It seems that this few blacks, which has only gone from 2% of the population to 8% in the last 5 years, shouldn't be this much of a strain on a small city with a lot going for it, not the least that it's the first heavily majority-white town on the subway north of the city. But because it's a small city with zero buildable land, every time an old property hits the market it's bought by a contractor or speculator, whereupon the lot that once had a single-family home now sports a four or six-unit building. With Section 8, the rent is always on time. The four largest landlords in the city now are all from out of town, so what do they care. And because the city has a nice, New England flavor with its nicer neighborhoods and active downtown, they are piggybacking on the civic propriety that predated their arrival. The cancer is just metastasizing.

    “The cancer is just metastasizing.”

    It is, because the infected are too brainwashed to realize they’re infected. “What? That big, black wart growing out of my pearly white skin? Nothing to be concerned about!”

  122. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @newyorker
    I dunno. If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile. I'd want better housing, but not too far from buddies. So I can see it'
    s hard to persuade them to move way out of their comfort zone.

    On the other hand, that hesitation works to keep a critical mass from forming in your wonderful white school district. Dilution is better for white nabes, but blacks want to have some black neighbors so once a foothold is established, it can cascade to such a point the toxins poison a good nabe. Of course this depends on landlords willing to enroll in section 8. Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    “Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum.”

    Lol, yes, you’ve indeed not thought this through. How does this community pressure work exactly? What are the repercussions for the out-of-state Carpet Bagger? What about an LLC with 100 investors?

    If ‘stuff’ is kept local, residents have a fighting chance of voting out developer co-opted politicians. But when it’s federal, as this program is, all hope is lost.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    You do what the expensive Boston suburb of Weston did when some deluded old Brahman scion wanted to leave some of his land in trust to build low-income housing. You rezone it, then buy it.
  123. @Fredrik
    The people selected for these vouchers should be screened first so that they have no criminal records and that they are basically decent people.

    If we ignore the racial aspect of it for a while it's been tried time after time in schools to mix low and high performers because it's assumed the low performers will be motivated by that. It never occurs to anyone who decides these things that whenever it works it always works the other way around. The low performers drag everyone else down.

    This was my experience of schooling. In non-streamed classes the uncontrollable kids did their best to destroy the learning environment.

    This dilution idea is related to the brain’s ability to fool itself that a small delta has no effect. Mash the pedal of your car momentarily and the fuel gauge stays level. Put a dab of paint thinner in the paint and it looks basically the same. But there will be an effect here, especially as it is not like throwing thinner in paint, it is like putting a clump of thick dark sand in white paint. There will be a difference and it will be negative.

    Fairest would be to make a new development removed from existing suburbs. Let the section 8 slumlords develop them. You get a Detroit in the desert somewhere but at least you don’t f*** up life everywhere else.

    • Replies: @SFG
    That's probably the best thing, actually, Of course, it would be 'segregation'.
  124. @Anonymous
    OT: Per your previous post about Minnesota: For African immigrants, St. Paul starting to feel more like home

    Thousands of African immigrants have landed in Minnesota after fleeing political persecution or civil war in their home countries. Others have been lured by the opportunity to continue their education at the University of Minnesota or accept jobs at major employers such as the Mayo Clinic and IBM.

    After decades of their numbers growing, they've pooled money to establish permanent community spaces where they can break bread and celebrate their language, culture and faith. Several are in St. Paul.

    Economist Bruce Corrie isn't surprised. Corrie, a professor at Concordia University in St. Paul, believes the state's African population produces $14 million in philanthropy within Minnesota each year, on top of $150 million in annual remittances to countries in Africa.
     


    In Minneapolis, the Cedar-Riverside neighborhood has been nicknamed "Little Mogadishu" because of its large Somali population. In 2013, Abdi Warsame made history by becoming the highest-ranking elected Somali official in the country when he won a seat on the Minneapolis City Council.

    A low-income high-rise in St. Paul's Midway -- the 500-unit Skyline Tower building at 1247 St. Anthony Ave. -- has provided housing for the city's growing Somali population, at one time earning it the nickname the "United Nations of the Sky."
     

    “Little Mogadishu?”

    Wasn’t there a memorable movie about a day in the life of Big Mogadishu?

    Some like “Black Hawk Down?”

  125. Some wealthy urbanites are going to get even more wealthy at the expense of middle class suburbanites.

  126. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    What’s the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?

    I mean, unless the point is to warehouse today’s inner city poor in suburban banlieues where they will be far away from the urban upper class? I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris.

    • Replies: @Annek
    "I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris."

    That's interesting.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist

    What’s the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?
     
    Especially the state and public public sector jobs so highly prized by blacks. Of course moving to a suburb may provide opportunities to shake down the local government for EEOC jobs.

    Making Chicago a lot more like Paris will mean moving the underclass a mile or two away from Lake Michigan along the south lake front. That will mean billions in appreciation for the Chicago real estate moguls.

    Steve has already made the case that where Obama lived on the University of Chicago campus/ "gated community" is the model to be expanded.

    Make the rest of the South Lakefront like UofC and there is lot of bank to be made.

    Indianapolis' loss will be Chicago's gain.
    , @Jefferson
    "What’s the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?"

    Requiring a car to get to work. That problem can be solved with universal car ownership. If America can have universal healthcare where every American and Illegal Alien has access to so-called "free healthcare" than the U.S government should provide every American citizen and Illegal Immigrant with a free car if they can not afford to purchase one on their own. After all we are moving to a more Socialist society where the safety nest for the underclass just keeps getting bigger because the elites know the American taxpayers will pick up the tab for it.
  127. Ed says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    Agriculture is subsidized in all developed countries and soviet land couldn't be given back to peasants because they didn't own it. More exactly they owned it only briefly and the transitions from boyar ownership of the land to village ownership and finally the distribution of plots to individual peasants explain the food crises that occurred in Russia at the end of the imperial period and the beginning of the soviet period.
    It turns out that giving peasants land is not a good idea if they don't have capital for mechanization or the discipline and initiative to be self employed or if they move from producing for the market to autarchy (and the production of moonshine vodka) leaving the urban populations to starve. It's telling that Russia did not return the land to peasants even after the fall of communism.
    My point is that whoever was in charge of soviet agriculture didn't had easy solutions and the same can be said about those americans leaders confronted with the problem of hot potatoes, err, I mean, poor blacks.

    The leaders of post Revolution Haiti quickly learned that. In one region of the country, think the southern part the leader attempted to reinstated slavery in order for export production to resume. In the other half the land was given to ex-slaves. They just grew enough to consume, if that.
    The land would be subdivided on a ad hoc basis each generation until nobody knew who owned what. Meanwhile trees were just cut for fuel now there are virtually no trees left.

  128. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I believe a study was done in Memphis, where they noticed that crime patterns had fanned out into the suburbs, right into the areas where the new section 8 vouchers went.

    Other people have already linked to the article that was written by Hanna Rosin, who somehow seems to be involved in many of the things and people that are talked about here at iSteve.

  129. “When you give somebody a voucher, it tends to be the case that they buy better-quality housing in the same neighborhood,” Mr. Ganong said. “That’s always been a disappointing fact within HUD.” He said it raised the question: “If they’re not finding better neighborhoods, why are we putting this money into housing?”

    Translation: “We are giving you free money, so why in hell are you still living in the ghetto with a bunch of dumb, violent negros? If you aren’t going to run off and live with nice, decent white folks, where your kids could pick up nice decent hard-working white folks values, we are just going to cut off your money until you agree to relocate and ‘ack white’”.

  130. Ariana Grande.

    I LIKE TO LICK IN AMERICA.

  131. @Steve Sailer
    What's the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?

    I mean, unless the point is to warehouse today's inner city poor in suburban banlieues where they will be far away from the urban upper class? I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris.

    “I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris.”

    That’s interesting.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    Any word on how that worked out for Chicago?
  132. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    You’re probably a shill for the people who will make millions from the gentrification of the inner cities and the blood-price paid by white children in the suburbs

    but if you’re not you’re in for such a shock.

  133. @The Z Blog

    No doubt some readers got tired of my deep coverage of Chetty’s research, but it’s influential and almost nobody else is taking a skeptical look at what he’s found.
     
    I don't think this point can be made too often. I've seen members of Conservative Inc repeating claims made by Chetty. It's how the narrative is controlled. Chetty is working backward from his desired conclusion, filling up his claims with "big data" jargon. That satisfies his customers so the sale is made. Because the NYTimes controls the political debate, Conservative Inc. accepts the premise and goes to work on their own "free market" solution for moving poor blacks into your neighborhood.

    One of the things that has been lost to the mists of time is that this is not a new initiative. Progressive education reformers have been talking about housing reform being the key to school reform for decades. By reform, they mean compulsory integration. In a generation, you will need permission from HUD to sell your house so as to avoid disparate impact claims.

    Oh yes. There were idiots commenting at that article insane things like zip codes determine life success. There are exactly no causal elements in the Chetty data mining “study” because if there were, they would be racist!!

  134. @anonymous-antimarxist

    Since a disproportionate number of Section 8 recipients will probably be black, you could avoid the racial issue by simply spreading them out where they’re too few to cause trouble.
     
    How about you and any other folks aspiring towards unworthiness registering online to have Ms Lamesa White and her four bastards move in next door. What is it going to hurt when her kids start slinging dope? Surely you can knock on her door and tell her and her kids that doing so is not neighborly. They are bound to be so impressed with your good example and moral authority that they will resist the urge to put a cap in your ass and stop immediately.

    I meant ‘”up-worthiness” not unworthiness, spellchecker does not recognize the neologism “upworthy” yet. Still in order to aspire to “up-worthiness” one is usually attempting to compensate for some sense of inadequacy.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Still in order to aspire to “up-worthiness” one is usually attempting to compensate for some sense of inadequacy.
     
    This sounds erectile. Try horny goat weed tea, from your local Asian superette. Much cheaper than Viagra or Cialis.
  135. @Anonymous
    Here's a link to a June 2015 article from "The Hill" on the proposed Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing rule.

    http://thehill.com/regulation/244620-obamas-bid-to-diversify-wealthy-neighborhoods

    Also, this rule could result in a massive loss of wealth for people who currently dwell in suburbs.

    Actually a massive transfer of wealth from those who will lose money in the suburbs to those who will gain in the newly-gentrified areas – a massive robbery in fact – camouflaged with PC rhetoric.

  136. iSteveFan says:
    @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.

    Have you noticed the poor are one of the only groups left that we can discriminate against? People cannot come out and say they don’t wish to live in a heavily black area, so they rephrase it to say they don’t want to live in a a heavily poor area. Take a lot of the so-called progressives who push diversity policies onto the rest of us. When asked why they don’t live in diverse areas, they’ll claim they’d like to but they don’t want to live among the poor.

    I find that rich, forgive the pun, since progressives and liberals used to be the advocates of the poor. But to hear them today, they don’t want anything to do with the poor.

    Of course we all know that it has nothing to do with the poor and is just an excuse to get away from diversity. I’ve had this discussion before and pointed out to an enlightened progressive how poor his parents and grandparents were. I then told him I guess he would never have lived in the same neighborhood. He assured me he would have since his parents and grandparents are great people. And then I told him his problem was not with the poor.

    But back to your comment. It’s not the middle class that needs to live next to the so-called poor, i.e. diversity. It is the upper class and those of the managerial ranks such as academics, journalists and politicians that push these policies onto the rest of us. The middle class knows the game, and that’s why they delay having children so that they can save up to move to neighborhoods with ‘better schools’. Their lives are being wrecked daily. It’s time for the progressives to take their own medicine. But they are too busy gentrifying the choicest real estate in the coolest cities for that to happen.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    " Take a lot of the so-called progressives who push diversity policies onto the rest of us. When asked why they don’t live in diverse areas, they’ll claim they’d like to but they don’t want to live among the poor."

    I have also heard White liberals say they would have no problem living in a Black neighborhood as long as it is middle class and has a low crime rate. So why don't these White liberals actually move to these middle class low crime Black neighborhoods?
  137. @Buffalo Joe
    Reminds me of my favorite Soviet story.....When asked how he liked living under communism an old farmer said....." I pretend I'm working, they pretend that they are paying me."

    I say that all the time at my job

  138. Baltimore’s incompetent Negro commissioner has been fired and replaced with a White Cisgender male. White males always have to clean up the mess left behind by the Vibrants. When you want effective law and order, you always have to go back to the Cisgender White male.

  139. @Steve Sailer
    What's the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?

    I mean, unless the point is to warehouse today's inner city poor in suburban banlieues where they will be far away from the urban upper class? I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris.

    What’s the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?

    Especially the state and public public sector jobs so highly prized by blacks. Of course moving to a suburb may provide opportunities to shake down the local government for EEOC jobs.

    Making Chicago a lot more like Paris will mean moving the underclass a mile or two away from Lake Michigan along the south lake front. That will mean billions in appreciation for the Chicago real estate moguls.

    Steve has already made the case that where Obama lived on the University of Chicago campus/ “gated community” is the model to be expanded.

    Make the rest of the South Lakefront like UofC and there is lot of bank to be made.

    Indianapolis’ loss will be Chicago’s gain.

  140. @PA
    No. Dispersing Section 8 blacks is not the solution because even in small numbers they can ruin an area. Blacks will hang out wherever amenities are nicest, so ghetto friends and relatives of a Sec. 8 beneficiary will hang out in his suburb.

    The gambit has always been first to get little old church going black lady her voucher. Once established, in come the daughters, various and sundry unkempt and unsupervised churren, and then the baby daddies/thug of the month/cousin Rollo and bitches. Some of the men will be “unconventional entrepreneurs.”

  141. @Annek
    "I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris."

    That's interesting.

    Any word on how that worked out for Chicago?

  142. @iSteveFan

    Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.
     
    Have you noticed the poor are one of the only groups left that we can discriminate against? People cannot come out and say they don't wish to live in a heavily black area, so they rephrase it to say they don't want to live in a a heavily poor area. Take a lot of the so-called progressives who push diversity policies onto the rest of us. When asked why they don't live in diverse areas, they'll claim they'd like to but they don't want to live among the poor.

    I find that rich, forgive the pun, since progressives and liberals used to be the advocates of the poor. But to hear them today, they don't want anything to do with the poor.

    Of course we all know that it has nothing to do with the poor and is just an excuse to get away from diversity. I've had this discussion before and pointed out to an enlightened progressive how poor his parents and grandparents were. I then told him I guess he would never have lived in the same neighborhood. He assured me he would have since his parents and grandparents are great people. And then I told him his problem was not with the poor.

    But back to your comment. It's not the middle class that needs to live next to the so-called poor, i.e. diversity. It is the upper class and those of the managerial ranks such as academics, journalists and politicians that push these policies onto the rest of us. The middle class knows the game, and that's why they delay having children so that they can save up to move to neighborhoods with 'better schools'. Their lives are being wrecked daily. It's time for the progressives to take their own medicine. But they are too busy gentrifying the choicest real estate in the coolest cities for that to happen.

    ” Take a lot of the so-called progressives who push diversity policies onto the rest of us. When asked why they don’t live in diverse areas, they’ll claim they’d like to but they don’t want to live among the poor.”

    I have also heard White liberals say they would have no problem living in a Black neighborhood as long as it is middle class and has a low crime rate. So why don’t these White liberals actually move to these middle class low crime Black neighborhoods?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    There are a few black neighborhoods with relatively low crime. However, they tend to be high income like Ladera Heights. So even if the disingenuous white liberal really wanted to find that needle in the haystack, they are still next door to Inglewood.
  143. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    “Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.”

    Forcing the middle-class to live next to no-account people who barely work at all and sponge off the system will end their ill-informed, preconceived notions about ‘the poor’, and replace them with a well-informed carefully arrived at disdain for their neighbors.

  144. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    Non-Hispanic Whites and Asians make up more than 83% of Seattle’s population, while blacks consists of <8%. This means policies that work for Seattle are unlikely to work the same way for cities with much larger percentages of the Dindu Nuffin tribe..

  145. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @ic1000
    Reporter Applebaum uncritically repeats the claim of MaryAnn Russ, chief executive of the Dallas Housing Authority: "Also important was that the overall cost of the program did not increase."

    In a recent interview on C-SPAN, the head of HUD's Section 8 program made the same assertion.

    All together:

    * "The problem, officials have concluded, is that the subsidies were much too small. "
    * "In Dallas, the maximum subsidy for a three-bedroom apartment is now just $850 in the cheapest ZIP codes, but as much as $1,840 in the most expensive ZIP codes."
    * "the overall cost of the program did not increase."

    Because New Math!

    “Because New Math!”

    Yeah, Steve said similar, but as a one-line critique it seems a bit disingenuous and entirely unworthy of the self-satisfaction infused snark. They’re cutting the subsidies of those who stay behind so, in theory, there could be no cost increase.

    Not that I trust the administrators. The total cost could also stay same if they served significantly fewer people– all sorts of ways to play with those numbers.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    I wrote "Because New Math!" as a sarcastic rejoinder to Dallas Housing Authority CEO MaryAnn Russ' improbable claim that "the overall cost of the [Section 8] program did not increase [when it changed into the 'Housing Choice Voucher Program']." (Note that the quote is Applebaum's, not Russ'.)

    Your rejoinder is

    as a one-line critique it seems a bit disingenuous and entirely unworthy of the self-satisfaction infused snark. They’re cutting the subsidies of those who stay behind so, in theory, there could be no cost increase.
     
    Yeah, in theory. In theory, since the highest subsidy is increased by 106% (that's ($1,840-$894)/$894, if you're wondering), how much would the lowest subsidy need to be reduced? The actual reduction was ($894-$850)/$894 equals 5%.

    The total cost could also stay same if they served significantly fewer people
     
    If true, would that be news that's fit to print? At what point does "playing with the numbers" descend into "misrepresenting," for Applebaum and Russ? Can you name any subsidy program whose costs are unaffected by the number of beneficiaries?

    Anyway, it turns out that "number of families served" and "average subsidy" are akin to State Secrets 0f Ms. Russ' DHA. Even ace NYT reporter Applebaum would have been foiled, had he tried to Google DHA's Annual Reports... they're only online through 2010, the year before Russ' Damage Middle Class Neighborhoods Program started. This April 2014 Dallas Morning News story about a "more cowbells" lawsuit implies by omission that the number of subsidies isn't down. It's also the only source I could find for the $894 pre-DMCNP figure.
  146. @ic1000

    On the day [Lamesa White] left [Dallas' most dangerous project], one of her daughter’s old schoolmates was shot to death by rracist cop Darren Wilson, simply for being black. Single-mother-led families in Dallas who qualify for housing subsidies are offered more money if they move to more expensive neighborhoods, allowing them to live in formerly safe communities.
     
    The white, Asian, and Hispanic elites named in the article are Binyamin Applebaum, Raj Chetty, Julian Castro, Peter Ganong, Robert Collinson, and MaryAnn Russ. How will this Section 8 reform affect their home values, and their kids' chances of being beat up for lunch money? I suspect that their SuperZip neighborhoods will somehow escape the foreseeable effects of these policies.

    SWPLs and limousine liberals, preening as they deliver the latest "sucks to be you" message to Walmart whites.

    The white, Asian, and Hispanic elites named in the article are Binyamin Applebaum, Raj Chetty, Julian Castro, Peter Ganong, Robert Collinson, and MaryAnn Russ.

    While on a superficial aka skin deep level Mr Applebaum and perhaps Ms Russ technically are white as you have called them, they may be deeply offended that you have done so.

    In 2050 when “whites” will be a minority, I suspect they expect their progeny not only being in the majority but completely controlling it.

  147. @Anonym
    This was my experience of schooling. In non-streamed classes the uncontrollable kids did their best to destroy the learning environment.

    This dilution idea is related to the brain's ability to fool itself that a small delta has no effect. Mash the pedal of your car momentarily and the fuel gauge stays level. Put a dab of paint thinner in the paint and it looks basically the same. But there will be an effect here, especially as it is not like throwing thinner in paint, it is like putting a clump of thick dark sand in white paint. There will be a difference and it will be negative.

    Fairest would be to make a new development removed from existing suburbs. Let the section 8 slumlords develop them. You get a Detroit in the desert somewhere but at least you don't f*** up life everywhere else.

    That’s probably the best thing, actually, Of course, it would be ‘segregation’.

  148. Lamesa White and her four children moved in February from the most dangerous public housing project in Dallas….

    That sounds awful, but I think Dallas has like 10 projects, and at least one was torn down in the last 10 years because it was on property too valuable (South of Cityplace) to be wasted on that. There’s another one nearby that I presume will not last much longer.

  149. @newyorker
    I dunno. If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where you stuck out like a sore thumb among whites who are at best indifferent to you or at worst, hostile. I'd want better housing, but not too far from buddies. So I can see it'
    s hard to persuade them to move way out of their comfort zone.

    On the other hand, that hesitation works to keep a critical mass from forming in your wonderful white school district. Dilution is better for white nabes, but blacks want to have some black neighbors so once a foothold is established, it can cascade to such a point the toxins poison a good nabe. Of course this depends on landlords willing to enroll in section 8. Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where there’s little chance that the teenager across the street isn’t going to shoot your son on the playground and the nice white ladies, whatever crypto-racist thoughts may be running through their heads, aren’t going to beat your ass for looking at them cross-eyed.

    I dunno, sounds good to me!

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where there’s little chance that the teenager across the street isn’t going to shoot your son on the playground and the nice white ladies, whatever crypto-racist thoughts may be running through their heads, aren’t going to beat your ass for looking at them cross-eyed.

    I dunno, sounds good to me!"

    How do you know Blacks do not get shot and killed in playgrounds located in nice predominantly White suburbs? According to the Left Wing Megaphone, White on Black homicide is the number 1 most common type of murder in the world, THE WORLD. It is the Holocaust of the 21st Century.
  150. @anon
    "Community pressure on the landlords could keep that possibility to a minimum."

    Lol, yes, you've indeed not thought this through. How does this community pressure work exactly? What are the repercussions for the out-of-state Carpet Bagger? What about an LLC with 100 investors?

    If 'stuff' is kept local, residents have a fighting chance of voting out developer co-opted politicians. But when it's federal, as this program is, all hope is lost.

    You do what the expensive Boston suburb of Weston did when some deluded old Brahman scion wanted to leave some of his land in trust to build low-income housing. You rezone it, then buy it.

    • Replies: @BostonB

    You do what the expensive Boston suburb of Weston did when some deluded old Brahman scion wanted to leave some of his land in trust to build low-income housing. You rezone it, then buy it.
     
    Yeah, they can't do what neighboring town Wellesley did. Überlib Wellesley built public housing (Barton Road) in an location sandwiched between a busy 6-lane highway (128) and a busy four-lane road (Rte 9), backing up to US Govt property (ANG barracks) and an office park. As far away from Wellesley College, and the shopping areas and town center, as possible.
  151. @iSteveFan
    SFG, blacks comprise 13 percent of the population nationwide, though they are highly clustered. If a benevolent leader wanted to do what you suggested, why not just spread the entire black population equally across all fifty states so that each town, city, county and state had a 13 percent black populace? Of course this would cause dramatic improvements for places like Detroit. But what would a 13 percent black population do to places like Maine?

    It might be better for the blacks to spread them out. But it clearly is not better for everyone else. Though I have no scientific data to back this up, it appears that when the black percentage of an area reaches as little as 5 percent, people notice. At 10 percent people with the means look to get their kids into different schools. To try to level out the black population into areas previously untouched would be akin to violating the human rights of the current inhabitants.

    Of course I could change my mind if you began this experiment in places like Chappaqua and Malibu.

    Even one (1) typical Negro underclass “family”, i.e., unwed mother with half-sib children, transient sexual partners and visiting realtives can make a neighborhood unlivable. There are plenty of very nice middle-class Negro families but all too often their children regress to the mean and neighbors experience all the harassments to which they would be subject if a representative of the Negro underclass were living nearby.

    There’s somewhere upwards of forty million Negroes in this country. About half are Negro underclass and another quarter are border-line. No white person in their right mind wants to live near even one of these people. The other quarter are fine but tend to drag in their wake underclass relatives and acquaintances. The end result is that even a very small percentage of decent Negro in-migrants drives a neighborhood over the edge very quickly. I’ve personally experienced this three times already in my life; each time, fortunately, in a place that was not my permanent home.

    Until some kind of practical eugenics program comes along we’re stuck with this mess. The best option for dealing with it wopuld be extreme segregation coupled with the very strong social controls which may compel Negro conformity to decent standards of behavior. [ Interestingly the social controls I envision are very like those that seem to evolve naturally among bush villages in Africa. These are definitely not the kind of villages Hil imagined in her infamous ghost-written screed on how to raise children. ] The last sixty years of “progressive” racial policies have been an even bigger disaster for American Negroes than for American Whiters. But only a revolution can change things at this poiint.

  152. In Dallas, the maximum subsidy for a three-bedroom apartment is now just $850 in the cheapest ZIP codes, but as much as $1,840 in the most expensive ZIP codes.

    The vast majority of working folks live in housing cheaper than that, but the permanent welfare class can live high on the hog.

    It’s obscene.

  153. @SFG
    Addendum: I'm not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution--without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.

    Addendum: I’m not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution–without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.

    No, dilution makes the problem much, much worse. Instead of victimizing one another, they victimize us. And IQ has little to do with it.

  154. The plain fact is we already know how to eliminate inter-generational poverty:

    Birth Control

    If the poor don’t have kids, the number of poor will dramatically drop in a single generation and ratchet down each generation from there. This effect–as Gregory Clark argued in “Farewell to Alms”–had something to do with how we–European peoples–inherited the package of traits–IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation–to launch the industrial revolution. As well as have well-ordered, democratic, rule-of-law societies that everyone else wants to flock to.

    Unfortunately, our welfare policies do the exact reverse of this. They subsidize poor, incompetent, disorganized women to have kids. The state serving as a surrogate father, providing all the resources the biological fathers do not. And to do so, taxing productive men, draining resources from their families–and in the net suppressing their fertility.

    It’s hideous, stupid and evil.

    And yet, no “conservative” politician is willing to even argue the obvious: the price of welfare ought to be sterilization. If you’re too incompetent to provide for your kids … then no more kids. You have no *right* to steal resources for the productive.

    • Replies: @Dew
    Correct. Encourage poor women to not have kids. Help them get an education, with more welfare granted to those who get sterilized. Make it look like a feminist policy if needed.
  155. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    Let me see. Anonymous and a fictitious web site. You advocate “Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.” I might think you are ignorant, or stupid, but that you mean well. But then there is always the boot-on-the-face, the violence, the coercion.

    Yes, always coercion, the coin-of-the-realm for leftists, but never persuasion.

    Your assumption that you can visit unequal treatment, suffering, and needless injustice upon the innocents in the middle class is more than enough to describe the state of your soul. Your impulse, executed by the police power of the state, qualifies you as an aristocrat-wannabe. You have none of the noblesse oblige, but all of the disdain and haughtiness. You imagine that your self-righteous posturing endows you with a luminous penumbra of secular sainthood. But the contempt you excite will result in a maelstrom that makes the idiots that perpetrated the French Revolution seem like a centered, well-balanced, moderate group of gardeners.

    If you knew the results of what you advocate you would repent, reverse course, and embrace principles that produce policies that benefit everyone. But that is not what an aristocrat does, is it?

  156. @midtown
    One of the many perverse things about this idea is that many voucher-receivers simply prefer to stay in their neighborhoods, where their friends and family live. I would imagine it would be uncomfortable to be the only poor (black?) family in a wealthy neighborhood. It would be like me moving into an all-Sikh neighborhood -- maybe the schools are good, but the social atmosphere is alien.

    But an $1800 per month voucher? That would be a huge increase in our family's income. Where do I sign up?

    One of the many perverse things about this idea is that many voucher-receivers simply prefer to stay in their neighborhoods, where their friends and family live. I would imagine it would be uncomfortable to be the only poor (black?) family in a wealthy neighborhood. It would be like me moving into an all-Sikh neighborhood….

    No, it wouldn’t be — unless you had a big brother with trillions of dollars of resources who would back you up in every conflict between you and your neighbors.

  157. @Brutusale
    If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where there's little chance that the teenager across the street isn't going to shoot your son on the playground and the nice white ladies, whatever crypto-racist thoughts may be running through their heads, aren't going to beat your ass for looking at them cross-eyed.

    I dunno, sounds good to me!

    “If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where there’s little chance that the teenager across the street isn’t going to shoot your son on the playground and the nice white ladies, whatever crypto-racist thoughts may be running through their heads, aren’t going to beat your ass for looking at them cross-eyed.

    I dunno, sounds good to me!”

    How do you know Blacks do not get shot and killed in playgrounds located in nice predominantly White suburbs? According to the Left Wing Megaphone, White on Black homicide is the number 1 most common type of murder in the world, THE WORLD. It is the Holocaust of the 21st Century.

    • Replies: @FWIW
    As bizarre as it sounds, it isn't unlikely that a Black person living in a White zip code will be killed by another Black.

    Just read crime stories in newspapers.

    A decent fraction of homicides are family/lover quarrels. And then there is the 'x' factor. It just happens.

    Sure .. I don't believe in magic or the paranormal. Network theory or something. A Black homicide anywhere on Earth is going to have a Black perp.

    Just think ... 'who do you know' not 'where do you live'

    All murder victims know their killers.

  158. @Brutusale
    You do what the expensive Boston suburb of Weston did when some deluded old Brahman scion wanted to leave some of his land in trust to build low-income housing. You rezone it, then buy it.

    You do what the expensive Boston suburb of Weston did when some deluded old Brahman scion wanted to leave some of his land in trust to build low-income housing. You rezone it, then buy it.

    Yeah, they can’t do what neighboring town Wellesley did. Überlib Wellesley built public housing (Barton Road) in an location sandwiched between a busy 6-lane highway (128) and a busy four-lane road (Rte 9), backing up to US Govt property (ANG barracks) and an office park. As far away from Wellesley College, and the shopping areas and town center, as possible.

  159. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.

    People with jobs aren’t eligible for programs like this. But surely you know this.

  160. @Steve Sailer
    What's the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?

    I mean, unless the point is to warehouse today's inner city poor in suburban banlieues where they will be far away from the urban upper class? I can recall when Mayor Daley started vacationing in Paris a quarter of a century ago and kept coming back with ideas on how to make Chicago more like Paris.

    “What’s the point of moving poor people from the inner city, which is close to many jobs and well-served by public transportation, to bedroom suburbs that require a car to get to work?”

    Requiring a car to get to work. That problem can be solved with universal car ownership. If America can have universal healthcare where every American and Illegal Alien has access to so-called “free healthcare” than the U.S government should provide every American citizen and Illegal Immigrant with a free car if they can not afford to purchase one on their own. After all we are moving to a more Socialist society where the safety nest for the underclass just keeps getting bigger because the elites know the American taxpayers will pick up the tab for it.

  161. @The Z Blog

    No doubt some readers got tired of my deep coverage of Chetty’s research, but it’s influential and almost nobody else is taking a skeptical look at what he’s found.
     
    I don't think this point can be made too often. I've seen members of Conservative Inc repeating claims made by Chetty. It's how the narrative is controlled. Chetty is working backward from his desired conclusion, filling up his claims with "big data" jargon. That satisfies his customers so the sale is made. Because the NYTimes controls the political debate, Conservative Inc. accepts the premise and goes to work on their own "free market" solution for moving poor blacks into your neighborhood.

    One of the things that has been lost to the mists of time is that this is not a new initiative. Progressive education reformers have been talking about housing reform being the key to school reform for decades. By reform, they mean compulsory integration. In a generation, you will need permission from HUD to sell your house so as to avoid disparate impact claims.

    > Progressive education reformers have been talking about housing reform being the key to school reform for decades

    Yes – because if you perch in the hen house, then you are a chicken.

    Correlation/causation confusion can be toxic. OTOH could this be the plan?

    Bring conditions about that ensure the destruction of suburbia; there is no downside for democrats – they lose more often than they win in the suburbs. Win-win!

    Take tax dollars from those whom you want to destroy, use the feds to enforce unlivable circumstances on those same hapless victims. At the same time you have transported the source of inner city problems away from white liberals; and the best part is that you can proudly proclaim your virtue in the process!

    What could possibly go wrong?

  162. @ic1000

    On the day [Lamesa White] left [Dallas' most dangerous project], one of her daughter’s old schoolmates was shot to death by rracist cop Darren Wilson, simply for being black. Single-mother-led families in Dallas who qualify for housing subsidies are offered more money if they move to more expensive neighborhoods, allowing them to live in formerly safe communities.
     
    The white, Asian, and Hispanic elites named in the article are Binyamin Applebaum, Raj Chetty, Julian Castro, Peter Ganong, Robert Collinson, and MaryAnn Russ. How will this Section 8 reform affect their home values, and their kids' chances of being beat up for lunch money? I suspect that their SuperZip neighborhoods will somehow escape the foreseeable effects of these policies.

    SWPLs and limousine liberals, preening as they deliver the latest "sucks to be you" message to Walmart whites.

    SWPLs and limousine liberals, preening as they deliver the latest “sucks to be you” message to Walmart whites.

    In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492."

    Doesn't mean they do not shop at Walmart. I personally know people who make 6 figures a year who still shop at Walmart because they are frugal.
  163. @ben tillman

    SWPLs and limousine liberals, preening as they deliver the latest “sucks to be you” message to Walmart whites.
     
    In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492.

    “In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492.”

    Doesn’t mean they do not shop at Walmart. I personally know people who make 6 figures a year who still shop at Walmart because they are frugal.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Doesn’t mean they do not shop at Walmart. I personally know people who make 6 figures a year who still shop at Walmart because they are frugal.
     
    No, it doesn't mean that. Most Whites probably shop at Walmart at least once in a blue moon. I stopped by a Walmart just last week to buy an ink cartridge when I was trying a case out in the sticks. (I brought my printer.) But I think you know what he meant by "Walmart whites".
  164. @Anon
    LOL. Sailer mentioned.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus

    LOL. Sailer mentioned.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus

    And, oddly, part of Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s name is not mentioned.

    I added it, but we’ll see whether it stays.

  165. @Jefferson
    "In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492."

    Doesn't mean they do not shop at Walmart. I personally know people who make 6 figures a year who still shop at Walmart because they are frugal.

    Doesn’t mean they do not shop at Walmart. I personally know people who make 6 figures a year who still shop at Walmart because they are frugal.

    No, it doesn’t mean that. Most Whites probably shop at Walmart at least once in a blue moon. I stopped by a Walmart just last week to buy an ink cartridge when I was trying a case out in the sticks. (I brought my printer.) But I think you know what he meant by “Walmart whites”.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    You commented above,

    > “In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492.”

    Presumably, this was to dispute my notion that it's the neighborhoods of middle-class people (cf. elites' neighborhoods) that are the targets of the Housing Choice Voucher Program. But the overall median income of Plano is barely relevant. We'd have to look at the locations of HCVP tenants by census tract or Zip Code. Any guesses as to what we'd find?

    > But I think you know what [IC1000] meant by “Walmart whites”.

    Yes. I could have written "Core Americans" instead.
  166. @anonymous-antimarxist
    I meant '"up-worthiness" not unworthiness, spellchecker does not recognize the neologism "upworthy" yet. Still in order to aspire to "up-worthiness" one is usually attempting to compensate for some sense of inadequacy.

    Still in order to aspire to “up-worthiness” one is usually attempting to compensate for some sense of inadequacy.

    This sounds erectile. Try horny goat weed tea, from your local Asian superette. Much cheaper than Viagra or Cialis.

  167. FWIW says:
    @Jefferson
    "If you were a welfare mom, how eager would you be to move to a neighborhood where there’s little chance that the teenager across the street isn’t going to shoot your son on the playground and the nice white ladies, whatever crypto-racist thoughts may be running through their heads, aren’t going to beat your ass for looking at them cross-eyed.

    I dunno, sounds good to me!"

    How do you know Blacks do not get shot and killed in playgrounds located in nice predominantly White suburbs? According to the Left Wing Megaphone, White on Black homicide is the number 1 most common type of murder in the world, THE WORLD. It is the Holocaust of the 21st Century.

    As bizarre as it sounds, it isn’t unlikely that a Black person living in a White zip code will be killed by another Black.

    Just read crime stories in newspapers.

    A decent fraction of homicides are family/lover quarrels. And then there is the ‘x’ factor. It just happens.

    Sure .. I don’t believe in magic or the paranormal. Network theory or something. A Black homicide anywhere on Earth is going to have a Black perp.

    Just think … ‘who do you know’ not ‘where do you live’

    All murder victims know their killers.

    • Replies: @Truth
    "As bizarre as it sounds, it isn’t unlikely that a Black person living in a White zip code will be killed by another Black."

    Black murder victims are usually killed by blacks,
    White murder victims are usually killed by whites.
    This is consistent and overwhelming repetitive.
    , @Jefferson
    "All murder victims know their killers."

    Poor innocent Kathryn Steinle never met her killer before she was shot to death. She was murdered by a complete stranger.
  168. @anonymous-antimarxist

    Anyway, discussions of Section 8 vouchers need to come with discussions of explicit racial quotas to keep neighborhoods from being wiped out, the way my wife’s Austin neighborhood on the West Side of Chicago was destroyed.
     
    Good question!!!

    How about the one baby momma rule??? Want that section 8 voucher in a better zip code??? One out of wedlock child only, then it's Depo Provera/IUD and RISUG/Vasalgel.

    Back in the 1990s when Chicago was busy tearing down high rise public housing the public was assured that scattered site public housing in the city's better neighborhoods was going to come with tough no nonsense administration. That actually lasted a few years until the TWMNBN funded lefty legal foundations made sure any attempt to expect the underclass to meet any behavioral or legal standard was racist because of disparate impact.

    Cause you just know Lamesa White and her four bastards are going to be a great addition to Plano Texas. Right now, Rahm Emanuel and Chicago's PTB are hell bent on shipping Chiraq's undesirables to the suburbs if not St Louis, Milwaukee and especially Indianapolis. The national Democratic party is willing to spend a fortune on Indy's mayoral election this year to ensure that the largest city with a current Republican mayor is overwhelmed demographically.

    Steve you need to move beyond just mentioning how your Dad grew up in "One Black a Block" Oak Park, IL.

    How about mentioning how the yentas who sit on the resident boards for Manhattan's and Lakeshore Drive's highrises make sure no riff-raff are allowed in. Causes these ladies who also write 4 and 5 figure checks annually to the SPLC, ACLU and ADL are lawyered up with the best highered guns the NLG can provide and donate politically so they don't crap of anyone.

    New York's best addresses are famous for not tolerating bad behavior and come down like a ton of bricks on those who misbehave.

    Case in point:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/amanda-bynes-tossed-swanky-biltmore-apartment-article-1.1361109

    The yenta serves a vital role in unelected community governance. Perhaps that is what 41 meant as one of his 1000 points of light. That continues a tradition (Tevye and shtetlettes echo “Tradition”) dating many centuries, where obeisance, favors, punishments, shmearing and sundry other cultural mysteries of an ineffable nature are cloaked in night and fog, redolent of garlic.

    Go to the yenta centa and take a number, unless you know someone, and they’ll find you.

  169. @Ozymandias
    "Nothing flips Dems into GOP voters quicker than busing or housing."

    How about "Nothing turns progressives into conservatives faster than subjecting them to the diversity they wish to impose on everyone else"?

    In our parents’ generation, the saying went as follows: a conservative is a liberal that just got mugged. Muggings were news in the old New York pre-Giuliani, like the Lindsay or Dinkins eras. Maybe they still are, but I wouldn’t know anymore from the middle of the Pacific (sips tropical drink).

  170. @FWIW
    As bizarre as it sounds, it isn't unlikely that a Black person living in a White zip code will be killed by another Black.

    Just read crime stories in newspapers.

    A decent fraction of homicides are family/lover quarrels. And then there is the 'x' factor. It just happens.

    Sure .. I don't believe in magic or the paranormal. Network theory or something. A Black homicide anywhere on Earth is going to have a Black perp.

    Just think ... 'who do you know' not 'where do you live'

    All murder victims know their killers.

    “As bizarre as it sounds, it isn’t unlikely that a Black person living in a White zip code will be killed by another Black.”

    Black murder victims are usually killed by blacks,
    White murder victims are usually killed by whites.
    This is consistent and overwhelming repetitive.

  171. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ex Machina
    "I don’t have kids of my own,"

    Please, for the love of all that if good and holy, reproduce. Please. It brings me endless agita that there are all these realists out there who don't have children of their own. If there is one way to beat the psychopaths who lord over us, it is to have children!

    “I don’t have kids of my own,”

    Please, for the love of all that if good and holy, reproduce. Please. It brings me endless agita that there are all these realists out there who don’t have children of their own. If there is one way to beat the psychopaths who lord over us, it is to have children

    My wife and I don’t have kids and it’s not for not wanting them. As is common with responsible people, we focused on school and a career before marrying and starting a family. But then, at a relatively older age, medical issues preventing reproduction become an issue. It was for us. My wife developed a medical condition which prevented us from having kids. We thought about adoption but it is too difficult ($ costs and time off from work). Both my wife and I would’ve loved to have kids, but it wasn’t meant to be.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Both my wife and I would’ve loved to have kids, but it wasn’t meant to be.
     
    That seems to be a recurring biographical characteristic of writers who take up the cause of demographics, e.g., Francis Galton, Havelock Ellis, GB Shaw, Lothrop Stoddard, Patrick Buchanan.

    Ben Franklin did have two surviving children, but that was under shaky circumstances. All were technically illegitimate. No wonder he was drawn to the subject, too.
    , @Bill

    My wife and I don’t have kids and it’s not for not wanting them. As is common with responsible people, we focused on school and a career before marrying and starting a family. But then, at a relatively older age, medical issues . . . it wasn’t meant to be.
     
    Yeah, it's just the dispassionate operation of impersonal forces. Fate, really. Certainly has nothing to do with the media pushing feminism and consumerism. Nuh unh.

    For example, groups like the Hasidim and the Amish, who have lots of kids, certainly don't do anything to isolate themselves from the toxic waste that passes for popular culture in the US. Everyone's always having a good chuckle with those guys about the Kardashians' latest antics.
  172. @anon
    "Because New Math!"

    Yeah, Steve said similar, but as a one-line critique it seems a bit disingenuous and entirely unworthy of the self-satisfaction infused snark. They're cutting the subsidies of those who stay behind so, in theory, there could be no cost increase.

    Not that I trust the administrators. The total cost could also stay same if they served significantly fewer people-- all sorts of ways to play with those numbers.

    I wrote “Because New Math!” as a sarcastic rejoinder to Dallas Housing Authority CEO MaryAnn Russ’ improbable claim that “the overall cost of the [Section 8] program did not increase [when it changed into the ‘Housing Choice Voucher Program’].” (Note that the quote is Applebaum’s, not Russ’.)

    Your rejoinder is

    as a one-line critique it seems a bit disingenuous and entirely unworthy of the self-satisfaction infused snark. They’re cutting the subsidies of those who stay behind so, in theory, there could be no cost increase.

    Yeah, in theory. In theory, since the highest subsidy is increased by 106% (that’s ($1,840-$894)/$894, if you’re wondering), how much would the lowest subsidy need to be reduced? The actual reduction was ($894-$850)/$894 equals 5%.

    The total cost could also stay same if they served significantly fewer people

    If true, would that be news that’s fit to print? At what point does “playing with the numbers” descend into “misrepresenting,” for Applebaum and Russ? Can you name any subsidy program whose costs are unaffected by the number of beneficiaries?

    Anyway, it turns out that “number of families served” and “average subsidy” are akin to State Secrets 0f Ms. Russ’ DHA. Even ace NYT reporter Applebaum would have been foiled, had he tried to Google DHA’s Annual Reports… they’re only online through 2010, the year before Russ’ Damage Middle Class Neighborhoods Program started. This April 2014 Dallas Morning News story about a “more cowbells” lawsuit implies by omission that the number of subsidies isn’t down. It’s also the only source I could find for the $894 pre-DMCNP figure.

  173. @ben tillman

    Doesn’t mean they do not shop at Walmart. I personally know people who make 6 figures a year who still shop at Walmart because they are frugal.
     
    No, it doesn't mean that. Most Whites probably shop at Walmart at least once in a blue moon. I stopped by a Walmart just last week to buy an ink cartridge when I was trying a case out in the sticks. (I brought my printer.) But I think you know what he meant by "Walmart whites".

    You commented above,

    > “In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492.”

    Presumably, this was to dispute my notion that it’s the neighborhoods of middle-class people (cf. elites’ neighborhoods) that are the targets of the Housing Choice Voucher Program. But the overall median income of Plano is barely relevant. We’d have to look at the locations of HCVP tenants by census tract or Zip Code. Any guesses as to what we’d find?

    > But I think you know what [IC1000] meant by “Walmart whites”.

    Yes. I could have written “Core Americans” instead.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    But the overall median income of Plano is barely relevant. We’d have to look at the locations of HCVP tenants by census tract or Zip Code. Any guesses as to what we’d find?
     
    Okay, good point.
  174. @SFG
    Addendum: I'm not trying to pollute the suburbs or anything. I just wonder if the problem could be solved by dilution--without other negative role models around, and carefully watched, perhaps the Section 8 recipients could assume (relatively) normal lifestyles due to imitation and a lack of other criminal elements? Or are there just too many of them?

    I know, I know, HBD, but there are things for people with IQs of 85 to do.

    If you keep an eye on them the feds will come after you. LA county was dumping their trash in the Antelope Valley and the police were making them live up to the rental agreements. The trash didn’t like it. In the latest offer from the feds they want the city of Lancaster to let the feds have control of the local Sheriff (Palmdale and Lancaster contract with the Sheriff for police services) and the city said no we won’t through our police under the bus and challenged the feds to show any documented case where the police did not follow proper procedure.

    This the typical extortion by the DOJ – threaten the city with juge leagal fees.

    http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130702/doj-wants-la-county-lancaster-palmdale-to-pay-for-section-8-harassment

  175. @Jefferson
    " Take a lot of the so-called progressives who push diversity policies onto the rest of us. When asked why they don’t live in diverse areas, they’ll claim they’d like to but they don’t want to live among the poor."

    I have also heard White liberals say they would have no problem living in a Black neighborhood as long as it is middle class and has a low crime rate. So why don't these White liberals actually move to these middle class low crime Black neighborhoods?

    There are a few black neighborhoods with relatively low crime. However, they tend to be high income like Ladera Heights. So even if the disingenuous white liberal really wanted to find that needle in the haystack, they are still next door to Inglewood.

  176. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    Forcing the middle-class …..

    It always comes down to force with Leftists. Forced busing , forced collectivization, force integration, forced this, forced that, force, force force. If you have to force people to do stuff “for their own good” or “for the good of the people”, maybe you should think twice about whether it’s really good after all.

  177. @Anonymous

    @Mr. Blank

    “I don’t have kids of my own,”

    Please, for the love of all that if good and holy, reproduce. Please. It brings me endless agita that there are all these realists out there who don’t have children of their own. If there is one way to beat the psychopaths who lord over us, it is to have children
     

    My wife and I don't have kids and it's not for not wanting them. As is common with responsible people, we focused on school and a career before marrying and starting a family. But then, at a relatively older age, medical issues preventing reproduction become an issue. It was for us. My wife developed a medical condition which prevented us from having kids. We thought about adoption but it is too difficult ($ costs and time off from work). Both my wife and I would've loved to have kids, but it wasn't meant to be.

    Both my wife and I would’ve loved to have kids, but it wasn’t meant to be.

    That seems to be a recurring biographical characteristic of writers who take up the cause of demographics, e.g., Francis Galton, Havelock Ellis, GB Shaw, Lothrop Stoddard, Patrick Buchanan.

    Ben Franklin did have two surviving children, but that was under shaky circumstances. All were technically illegitimate. No wonder he was drawn to the subject, too.

  178. @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    Too often America’s poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about ‘the poor’.

    Anyone who’s actually been poor can affirm for you that there are both good and bad, “deserving” and “undeserving”, among their neighbors.

    If too many on the right assume poverty is always deserved, too many more on the Left [sic] assume it never is. That’s a sign someone has had too consistently comfortable a life.

  179. @AnotherDad
    The plain fact is we already know how to eliminate inter-generational poverty:

    Birth Control

    If the poor don't have kids, the number of poor will dramatically drop in a single generation and ratchet down each generation from there. This effect--as Gregory Clark argued in "Farewell to Alms"--had something to do with how we--European peoples--inherited the package of traits--IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation--to launch the industrial revolution. As well as have well-ordered, democratic, rule-of-law societies that everyone else wants to flock to.

    Unfortunately, our welfare policies do the exact reverse of this. They subsidize poor, incompetent, disorganized women to have kids. The state serving as a surrogate father, providing all the resources the biological fathers do not. And to do so, taxing productive men, draining resources from their families--and in the net suppressing their fertility.

    It's hideous, stupid and evil.

    And yet, no "conservative" politician is willing to even argue the obvious: the price of welfare ought to be sterilization. If you're too incompetent to provide for your kids ... then no more kids. You have no *right* to steal resources for the productive.

    Correct. Encourage poor women to not have kids. Help them get an education, with more welfare granted to those who get sterilized. Make it look like a feminist policy if needed.

  180. Bill says:
    @B
    Presumably, once they've cleared them out of the inner cities into suburbs at public expense, the centrally located and potentially valuable real estate will be developed and colonized, the profits being privatized.

    Yes, and this also points to the solution. Homeowners, alone and isolated, are not in a position to fight any of this, and they are screwed when their largest asset, their home, depreciates for reasons of diversity. So, you eliminate homeownership. Neighborhoods will be owned by real estate developers. Families will rent. This has multiple advantages.

    First, families can flee at very little cost to themselves at the first sign of diversity. Second, this flight possibility gives the real estate developer or REIT or whatever owns the neighborhood a powerful incentive to work behind the scenes so that the diversity goes somewhere else. Third, and finally, suburban neighborhoods are really just long-stay hotels anyway where Dad stays for a few years with his family before ACME Corp ships them off across the country for his next exciting assignment. It’s insane to have these people own these homes. What’s the point? You could save on the gigantic transactions cost of turning over houses every time somebody moves. Plus, the houses are all the same anyway, thanks to HGTV.

    So, to solve the problem, we just have to 1) make landlords richer, and 2) make the US into even more of a homogenized, disposable, soulless, transient shithole.(*) Sounds like a program the GOP could really get behind.

    (*) I know it’s hard to imagine the US getting even worse on these dimensions, but I’ll bet Jeb Bush is willing to give it a try!

  181. Bill says:
    @Anonymous

    @Mr. Blank

    “I don’t have kids of my own,”

    Please, for the love of all that if good and holy, reproduce. Please. It brings me endless agita that there are all these realists out there who don’t have children of their own. If there is one way to beat the psychopaths who lord over us, it is to have children
     

    My wife and I don't have kids and it's not for not wanting them. As is common with responsible people, we focused on school and a career before marrying and starting a family. But then, at a relatively older age, medical issues preventing reproduction become an issue. It was for us. My wife developed a medical condition which prevented us from having kids. We thought about adoption but it is too difficult ($ costs and time off from work). Both my wife and I would've loved to have kids, but it wasn't meant to be.

    My wife and I don’t have kids and it’s not for not wanting them. As is common with responsible people, we focused on school and a career before marrying and starting a family. But then, at a relatively older age, medical issues . . . it wasn’t meant to be.

    Yeah, it’s just the dispassionate operation of impersonal forces. Fate, really. Certainly has nothing to do with the media pushing feminism and consumerism. Nuh unh.

    For example, groups like the Hasidim and the Amish, who have lots of kids, certainly don’t do anything to isolate themselves from the toxic waste that passes for popular culture in the US. Everyone’s always having a good chuckle with those guys about the Kardashians’ latest antics.

  182. Jay says:
    @Anonymous
    Low-income housing should be scattered throughout municipal areas instead of concentrated in a few poorly resourced areas where buses are less frequent, businesses sparse, and hope rationed. Seattle requires that new buildings contain a small percentage of low-income units. This is 100% feasible, benefits everyone, and should be the policy of every city. Too often America's poorest are told they are morally bankrupt and at fault for most of their problems. Forcing the middle-class to live next to a family that works hard, yet struggles will end our ill-informed preconceived notions about 'the poor'.

    There is nothing preconceived about my experience with a Section 8 “family.” Three adult females and several teen and younger children lived in a house on my block. The liberal couple next door to them offered the use of their pool. In return they got an auto burglary. The front yard was piled with trash bags and densely littered. There was constant noise. Constant coming and going of “customers.” Yes, it was a whorehouse. When the realtor finally kicked them out, the inside of the house was a wreck. Marijuana-growing on hardwood floors buckled them from the water draining out the pots. Holes punched in the sheetrock. Most every tile in the bathrooms broken, obviously on purpose. These people were poor because they were unable to conduct themselves in a manner required by any employer. Not because the larger society had any preconceived notions about them. They were reproducing because socialists like you take the earnings of productive people to subsidize said reproduction.

  183. @ic1000
    You commented above,

    > “In 2007, Plano had the highest median income of a city with a population exceeding 250,000 in the nation, at $84,492.”

    Presumably, this was to dispute my notion that it's the neighborhoods of middle-class people (cf. elites' neighborhoods) that are the targets of the Housing Choice Voucher Program. But the overall median income of Plano is barely relevant. We'd have to look at the locations of HCVP tenants by census tract or Zip Code. Any guesses as to what we'd find?

    > But I think you know what [IC1000] meant by “Walmart whites”.

    Yes. I could have written "Core Americans" instead.

    But the overall median income of Plano is barely relevant. We’d have to look at the locations of HCVP tenants by census tract or Zip Code. Any guesses as to what we’d find?

    Okay, good point.

  184. @Undocumented Shopper
    The whole thing reminds me of how the Soviets continually tinkered with their agriculture, which produced less grain than before the Bolshevik Revolution. They next fix they tried was no better than the previous ones, but they sure looked busy.

    This was nicely summarized by Srdja Trifkovic in Chronicles Magazine:
    " The Soviet Communist Party used to devote a lot of attention to the problem of inefficient agriculture. The party’s Agrarian Policy Commission debated endlessly, throughout the final quarter-century of the Soviet state’s existence, how to improve the system. Should the state farm (sovkhoz) be made self-financing? Should the collective farm (kolkhoz) have its own heavy equipment, or should it depend on state-operated tractor stations? How to reconcile the principles of the command economy, with its procurement quotas and state-fixed prices, with the need to motivate peasants to produce more? What should be the maximum area of the private plot on which farmers can produce food for their own use and to supplement their incomes: a quarter-hectare or a half-hectare?

    The notion that both state and collective farms should be abolished, the price of produce determined by the market, and the land given back to peasants whose holdings should be limited only by their ability to work the land never entered the discussion. To make such a suggestion would have marked the end of an apparatchik’s political career and exposed him to all manner of unpleasantness. The solution to the problem of collectivized agriculture lay outside the ideological parameters of the decisionmaking community."

    I seem to recall the probably apocryphal story that the Soviets proposed that when communism had taken over the World, Switzerland was to remain capitalist for purposes of price discovery.

    • Replies: @Undocumented Shopper
    The real story is bigger than apocrypha you mentioned. Within COMECON (the trading bloc of Soviets and their satellites) they traded using prices which were set as moving averages of capitalist prices on world markets. So, behind the rhetoric, they were quite pragmatic.

    I would say that their pricing policy was more pragmatic than our housing policy.
  185. @FWIW
    As bizarre as it sounds, it isn't unlikely that a Black person living in a White zip code will be killed by another Black.

    Just read crime stories in newspapers.

    A decent fraction of homicides are family/lover quarrels. And then there is the 'x' factor. It just happens.

    Sure .. I don't believe in magic or the paranormal. Network theory or something. A Black homicide anywhere on Earth is going to have a Black perp.

    Just think ... 'who do you know' not 'where do you live'

    All murder victims know their killers.

    “All murder victims know their killers.”

    Poor innocent Kathryn Steinle never met her killer before she was shot to death. She was murdered by a complete stranger.

  186. @Bill Jones
    I seem to recall the probably apocryphal story that the Soviets proposed that when communism had taken over the World, Switzerland was to remain capitalist for purposes of price discovery.

    The real story is bigger than apocrypha you mentioned. Within COMECON (the trading bloc of Soviets and their satellites) they traded using prices which were set as moving averages of capitalist prices on world markets. So, behind the rhetoric, they were quite pragmatic.

    I would say that their pricing policy was more pragmatic than our housing policy.

  187. To remind us that these policies have almost no popular support even among liberals, I cite the top two “readers’ picks” from the NYT comments:

    Blake from Minnesota:

    I work hard and have zero children…and I wish I could afford to live in a home like that. There’s just something wrong to me about the government rewarding people for breeding out of control and having children they can’t support.

    Kevin:

    I am a landlord in a western suburb of Boston. I have a section 8 tenant who moved her family from a bad inner city neighborhood of Boston to this suburb so that her children could get a better education. 4 kids with 3 different fathers. All three boys were suspended from schools at different times. Once for almost killing a homeless man with a skateboard with some of his friends for fun. Another who graduated from brand new 200 million dollar Newton North high school was just arrested for driving around with a stolen high capacity, high caliber gun, a bunch of drugs and a scale.

    Would you want to live in that 3 family house? Would you want your children living there? (I have a number of female young professionals and students attending Brandeis also in the building) I consider myself as liberal as they come but should I tell the other people in the building what I know? What would NY times readers suggest I do? Do I kick them out?

    She is 47, has never worked more than a few months in her life, has 4 children and 5 grandchildren, none with a college degree. She pays for nothing through a variety of government programs. What is the lesson?

    Meanwhile we good liberals gnash our teeth about global warming and overpopulation. Why doesn’t anyone equate the increased scarcity of resources with the ‘breeding like rabbits’ as the Pope said?

    China’s one child policy starts to make a lot of sense when faced with this day after day.

    And on and on:

    Tina from Jericho, NY:

    That seems terribly unfair to people who worked hard to pay for homes in those neighborhoods.

    So what has this program “accomplished”? You’ve made both the old neighborhoods and the new neighborhoods worse and you spent a good deal of tax money in the process.

    Sorry, this is beyond stupid. It’s vile.

  188. Make no mistake about it: the reason the “elites” want to push the “vibrants” into middle-class and upper-middle-class neighborhoods is to deflect them from their neighborhoods

  189. @Wall the ghetto
    Their phones will also have to be taken away to avoid flash mobbing of swimming pools. Better a balck indian reservation. Imagine ghetto projects in the middle of a desert.

    Imagine ghetto projects in the middle of a desert.

    Oh, you mean like Victorville, California? Lancaster, California? Hemet, California? San Bernardino, California?

    Easy to “imagine” because they’re a reality.

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