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Fake News Impresario Jann Wenner Interviews President-Eject Obama About the Scourge of Fake News
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Just before the election, Rolling Stone founder Jann Wenner cost himself $3 million in a seemingly easy-to-win libel suit by a U. of Virginia administrator by de-retracting much of Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s notorious hate hoax article “A Rape on Campus.”

The day after the election, Obama welcomed Wenner to the Oval Office for an interview in Rolling Stone and they got to talking about fake news:

One of the challenges that we’ve been talking about now is the way social media and the Internet have changed what people receive as news. I was just talking to my political director, David Simas. He was looking at his Facebook page and some links from high school friends of his, some of whom were now passing around crazy stuff about, you know, Obama has banned the Pledge of Allegiance.

In contrast, there’s sane stuff like fraternity initiation gang rape rituals on broken glass.

Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay, such as not getting another Oval Office one-on-one, for sponsoring the climate of hate that led to the most lurid fake news fiasco of the last few years?

 
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  1. In the article there’s a funny line from Obama about how working class whites in the Midwest “might’ve heard that Obama and Hillary disrespected them”. Being able to lie like that with a straight face really is a valuable skill. Steve have you ever done a post or article about how elites learn to lie so well?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Yep

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I'm extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I'm terrible at it.

    Replies: @Venator, @Desiderius, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @antipater_1, @Ivy, @Dennis Dale

    , @Randal
    @Yep

    Poor liars are actively and viciously selected against by any democratic system, for two obvious reasons:

    First, it is inherent in almost any substantial mass democratic system that you can only build a coalition of support big enough to win by lying to convince some people whose interests you have no intention of supporting that you are "on their side".

    Secondly, choosing whom to vote for is an inherently social activity based largely upon subjective an emotional likes and dislikes, and humans are, by evolutionary necessity, heavily armed in both inclinations and abilities to deceive and to detect deception in such areas. Good deceivers rise, and poor ones descend, rapidly.

    The modern mass democracies in the US and UK exacerbate instead of minimising these flaws in at least three key ways:

    First, operating in practice on an ideology of democratic control rather than the representative democracy that the US and UK systems were designed or built for.

    Secondly, having immensely, profoundly intrusive big government systems that interfere in almost every tiny detail of people's lives, making it feel too important to abandon even the illusion of influence that mass democracy provides.

    Third, modern media enabling direct social contact (or rather, the feeling of it) between candidates and voters.

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Sean

    , @Barnard
    @Yep

    I've never thought Obama was that good of liar, at least in terms of it being believable. The only people who believe him are the gullible and people who are emotionally invested in believing him. Even among a casual supporter, I think a reaction to that line would be to laugh at it.

    , @Jack D
    @Yep

    Here is the exact quote:

    The challenge we had is not that we've neglected these communities from a policy perspective. That is, I think, an incorrect interpretation. You start reading folks saying, "Oh, you know, working-class families have been neglected," or "Working-class white families have not been paid attention to by Democrats." Actually, they have. What is true, though, is that whatever policy prescriptions that we've been proposing don't reach, are not heard, by the folks in these communities. And what they do hear is Obama or Hillary are trying to take away their guns or they disrespect you.
     

    Wanting to take your guns away? That's crazy talk. I have no idea where they got that idea. Disrespect? There's nothing, nothing I tell you, disrespectful about wishing that all old white men would hurry up and die. Even in this interview, Obama mentions that Hillary would have gotten 500 electoral votes if only young people were allowed to vote.

    So the messages don't get heard - If ONLY the media establishment in the US had been willing to help the Democrats get their message across to the people, if only Hillary had had a lot of money to buy TV advertising, then Hillary might have won.

    Replies: @Forbes, @Harry Baldwin, @Kyle McKenna

    , @Bleuteaux
    @Yep

    Your comment makes me think of my own experience in corporate America. If there is one single skill required for promotion and advance, it is the ability to lie.

    On a related note, I wonder to what extent (probably great) the corruption and financialization of corporate America has played in the rise of the alt-right.

    I get the feeling that there are a lot of silent, former generic conservatives like me working in the private sector who have had their eyes opened.

    I also wonder if it's ever going to be possible for liberals to have a similar experience, removing naivete about their party.

  2. @Yep
    In the article there's a funny line from Obama about how working class whites in the Midwest "might've heard that Obama and Hillary disrespected them". Being able to lie like that with a straight face really is a valuable skill. Steve have you ever done a post or article about how elites learn to lie so well?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Randal, @Barnard, @Jack D, @Bleuteaux

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I’m extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I’m terrible at it.

    • Replies: @Venator
    @Steve Sailer

    The very epitome of virtous humble-bragging.

    Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    , @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer


    I’m extremely poor at lying
     
    Ha, case in point.

    What you lack in practice you'd more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling.

    There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    @Steve Sailer


    I’m extremely poor at lying.
     
    This might sting, but this is probably why you aren't a star in establishment media.

    Blindness to the facts that don't conform to preconceptions and self-deception for propaganda might not be among your gifts.
    , @antipater_1
    @Steve Sailer

    Its difficult for me to lie to other men but really easy for me to lie to women.

    , @Ivy
    @Steve Sailer

    Lying is such a déclassé word among pols and media types. They prefer dissembling.

    , @Dennis Dale
    @Steve Sailer

    What's the line--"always tell the truth because it's easier to remember"? There's a cousin: if you have to convince others of a lie, the very best way is to convince yourself first. I believe we have a lot of self-interest leading to self-delusion out there. Of course you can also convince yourself the truth doesn't matter or, better still, doesn't exist. That's what postmodernism is for.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  3. is there any social price Wenner will have to pay

    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    I suppose that gives some hope to the perennially clumsy, but it might also mean we could use some better social protocols.

    • Replies: @Randal
    @bomag


    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.
     
    And yet others make one seemingly trivial misstep, and are banished to the outer darkness.

    I suppose it depends in part on whether the misstep in question is politically correct or politically incorrect, but it's also funny how being useful to the powerful seems to correlate with "getting away with murder", isn't it? It's noticeable that almost nobody in a prominent "expert" position suffered much loss in position, influence, media bankability or political respect from backing the literally stupid attack on Iraq.

    Replies: @cucksworth, @Olorin

    , @Robert Hume
    @bomag

    In this respect, Trump calls for loss of citizenship or possibly jail time for flagburning. Others point out that the Supreme Court says no because free-speech must be protected.

    But we've seen that government action is not required to punish those who make "offensive" statements. The left simply ensures that the offenders are fired and can't find a new job.

    Trump should urge that the names of flag burners be publicized and that anti-flag burning employers fire them and not give them jobs.

    Replies: @Randal, @Bugg

    , @candid_observer
    @bomag


    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.
     
    It's because their shoes are made of gold.
    , @The Millennial Falcon
    @bomag

    I think it's more a result of the Left currently enjoying a near complete monopoly on shame.

    The Right is contained to Fox News, talk radio and niche social media. Any attempts at shaming Rolling Stone from those outlets won't reach Leftist ears unless they make the gag reel on the Daily Show or get recapped by MediaMatters. Meanwhile the token Rightist columnists in Leftist media, like Frum and Douthat, are far too genteel to embarrass their hosts.

    The few leftists willing to shame leftward, like Dave Rubin and Michael Tracey, are kept away from the mainstream.

    Until the SF/LA/NYC/DC stranglehold on the major social institutions is broken, there will be no real social accountability.

    , @FX Enderby
    @bomag

    Yes, it is known as ethnic nepotism. Wenner is one of the chosen.

  4. One ‘s’ in impresario.

    Also a kinder term than I’d use. (“Fake news explosive diarrhea firehose” comes to mind.)

    • LOL: Percy Gryce
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Olorin

    I thought Steve was making a play on words with "Press".

    Replies: @Olorin

  5. “”””Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay”””

    No, at least not among his own social group since he followed the groups narrative. Some among his group might be angry that he was so sloppy, but most will think “better luck next time in the hunt for the great White, Sexist, Racist, Homophobe, etc Perpetrator”

    • Replies: @PenskeFile
    @DJF


    No, at least not among his own social group since he followed the groups narrative.
     
    To paraphrase "Falsehoods in the defense of the narrative is no vice"

    Replies: @Sean, @Kyle McKenna

    , @FX Enderby
    @DJF

    No, morality is ethnic. Goyim are moral reprobates and must pay. Wenner is Jewish (hence righteous) and must be paid. Don't you understand simple morality, goyishe kopf?

  6. Perhaps after the January inauguration, Obama can rent Beck’s Fauxval Office and have pretend presidential briefings with Wenner and the other commies. Like a shadow government.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Steve in Greensboro

    "Perhaps after the January inauguration, Obama can rent Beck’s Fauxval Office and have pretend presidential briefings with Wenner and the other commies. Like a shadow government."

    I'd forgotten about Beck's "Fauxval Office" (nice coinage, by the way). What a whack-job that guy is.

    That's a good idea. And if Obama passes on it, maybe Kramer can get hold of it and set it up in his living room.

  7. Now even the Guardian is printing fake news!

    Rolls-Royce trolling from the sublime ‘Godfrey Elfwick’:

    http://theralphretort.com/godfrey-elfwick-brilliantly-trolls-guardian-with-alt-right-nearly-turned-me-racist-column-11029016/

    • Agree: NickG
  8. What is up with this “fake news” business? It seems the reaction from the left/MSM to the second major defeat of 2016, i.e. the election of Trump, is to figuratively stick their fingers in their ears and yell “la la la I’m not listening!”. I was reading an editorial about the alarming rise of fake news, which purportedly is sponsored by Putin and is based in places like Macedonia and Romania, I think. I was thinking “My god, they really have gone off the deep end.”

    Maybe I’m the fool for thinking that someone, somewhere in the MSM would put out a column stating that maybe we have some issues. Maybe we had a lot of hubris thinking we could craft the narrative and get Hillary elected. Maybe we should think before we label a racist anyone who we disagree with. Maybe we overrated our own influence. Maybe Merkel was wrong to unilaterally decide to change the demographics of Germany based on feelz. Maybe I should read some alt-right websites and try and understand the criticisms.

    I guess the Catholic Church did not much appreciate Martin Luther and the wave of reformation he sparked. I suppose in this modern war of religion, we cannot accept the modern orthodoxy to just admit being wrong.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion

    I found an article on this “fake news” by the Grauniad, some of the comments are good.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/29/fake-news-echo-chamber-ethics-infosphere-internet-digital#comments

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Anonym


    I guess the Catholic Church did not much appreciate Martin Luther and the wave of reformation he sparked. I suppose in this modern war of religion, we cannot accept the modern orthodoxy to just admit being wrong.
     
    Appreciate is probably not the right word, but his challenge did spark the Counter Reformation.
  9. @Yep
    In the article there's a funny line from Obama about how working class whites in the Midwest "might've heard that Obama and Hillary disrespected them". Being able to lie like that with a straight face really is a valuable skill. Steve have you ever done a post or article about how elites learn to lie so well?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Randal, @Barnard, @Jack D, @Bleuteaux

    Poor liars are actively and viciously selected against by any democratic system, for two obvious reasons:

    First, it is inherent in almost any substantial mass democratic system that you can only build a coalition of support big enough to win by lying to convince some people whose interests you have no intention of supporting that you are “on their side”.

    Secondly, choosing whom to vote for is an inherently social activity based largely upon subjective an emotional likes and dislikes, and humans are, by evolutionary necessity, heavily armed in both inclinations and abilities to deceive and to detect deception in such areas. Good deceivers rise, and poor ones descend, rapidly.

    The modern mass democracies in the US and UK exacerbate instead of minimising these flaws in at least three key ways:

    First, operating in practice on an ideology of democratic control rather than the representative democracy that the US and UK systems were designed or built for.

    Secondly, having immensely, profoundly intrusive big government systems that interfere in almost every tiny detail of people’s lives, making it feel too important to abandon even the illusion of influence that mass democracy provides.

    Third, modern media enabling direct social contact (or rather, the feeling of it) between candidates and voters.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Randal

    Odysseus was a hero in Greek Epic, but in Tragedy, which arose in democratic Athens, he was always a villain.
    It's good for king Agamemnon to have a cunning and tricky ally, but it is not good for a democracy to make such leadership skills heroic or worthy of emulation...

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    , @Sean
    @Randal

    True, but only in relation to lying for self interested reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Leaders_Lie

  10. Love that President-eject line. First I have seen it!

    • Agree: dearieme
  11. @bomag

    is there any social price Wenner will have to pay
     
    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    I suppose that gives some hope to the perennially clumsy, but it might also mean we could use some better social protocols.

    Replies: @Randal, @Robert Hume, @candid_observer, @The Millennial Falcon, @FX Enderby

    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    And yet others make one seemingly trivial misstep, and are banished to the outer darkness.

    I suppose it depends in part on whether the misstep in question is politically correct or politically incorrect, but it’s also funny how being useful to the powerful seems to correlate with “getting away with murder”, isn’t it? It’s noticeable that almost nobody in a prominent “expert” position suffered much loss in position, influence, media bankability or political respect from backing the literally stupid attack on Iraq.

    • Replies: @cucksworth
    @Randal


    It’s noticeable that almost nobody in a prominent “expert” position suffered much loss in position, influence, media bankability or political respect from backing the literally stupid attack on Iraq.
     
    Nobody made one peep about Hilldog being all pro war when it was good politically.

    Replies: @(((Owen)))

    , @Olorin
    @Randal

    Also, there have been no consequences for any of the journalists who pronounced Sabrina Rubin's rape porn fever dream The Most Important Investigative Journalism Achievement of Ever.

    And there were many, as our host documented.

  12. Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay

    Absolutely not. As long as they stay on narrative their readers will forgive them any minor infraction like making stuff up and libeling innocent people especially if those innocent people are the dreaded white, heterosexual Southern males.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @TheBoom

    The woman who was found to have been defamed by RS, Nicole Eramo, was someone who would normally be considered a goodwhite - the dean of sexual harassment or something like that, but Erdely considered her to be an insufficiently zealous enforcer. She let Haven Monahan go scot free! Clearly a wrecker! The Revolution always eats its own.

    Replies: @Olorin

    , @Almost Missouri
    @TheBoom

    One of the strange facts about leftists, which I've commented on here before, is that they actually like being lied to, in the right way. Had the JournoList fake news scandal involved right-leaning journalists (rare, I know) instead of lefties, the journalists involved would have immediately been audienceless, since the right doesn't want to be lied to by the people it is relying on to be informed. The lefty journalists of JournoList, however, went back to producing "journalism" for their lefty audience with hardly a ripple, which tells you that their audience likes being lied to, provided they are the right lies. To them, journalism is merely soothing background music to stroke their self-regard. Facts are technicalities, practically irrelevant.

    Replies: @Jack D

  13. Yan started yumping Calvin Klein models after a hetero marriage, so much of what he does is deceitful.

  14. “is there any social price Wenner will have to pay … for … the most lurid fake news fiasco of the last few years?”

    Short answer: No.

    They own the Megaphone.

    (Remember Megaphonics?)

  15. @Yep
    In the article there's a funny line from Obama about how working class whites in the Midwest "might've heard that Obama and Hillary disrespected them". Being able to lie like that with a straight face really is a valuable skill. Steve have you ever done a post or article about how elites learn to lie so well?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Randal, @Barnard, @Jack D, @Bleuteaux

    I’ve never thought Obama was that good of liar, at least in terms of it being believable. The only people who believe him are the gullible and people who are emotionally invested in believing him. Even among a casual supporter, I think a reaction to that line would be to laugh at it.

  16. Why would he pay a social price from Obama? They were working together. The narrative came from the Obama people, the RS guys were pitching in to create a climate of fear, the Obama people were to follow up with emergency measures. It was working great for both of them.

    Also, Wenner didn’t rat.

    Obama keeping Wenner on as a suck up toady is a way for Barry to maintain at least a small army of people who are indebted to him even after he loses real power.

  17. @bomag

    is there any social price Wenner will have to pay
     
    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    I suppose that gives some hope to the perennially clumsy, but it might also mean we could use some better social protocols.

    Replies: @Randal, @Robert Hume, @candid_observer, @The Millennial Falcon, @FX Enderby

    In this respect, Trump calls for loss of citizenship or possibly jail time for flagburning. Others point out that the Supreme Court says no because free-speech must be protected.

    But we’ve seen that government action is not required to punish those who make “offensive” statements. The left simply ensures that the offenders are fired and can’t find a new job.

    Trump should urge that the names of flag burners be publicized and that anti-flag burning employers fire them and not give them jobs.

    • Replies: @Randal
    @Robert Hume


    Trump should urge that the names of flag burners be publicized and that anti-flag burning employers fire them and not give them jobs.
     
    That would be disgusting McCarthyism and blacklisting!

    Really, you should be sacked for even suggesting it, and prevented from ever working again. If you are in a European state or in the UK, you should be prosecuted for saying it and locked up.
    , @Bugg
    @Robert Hume

    Trump is living in the collective brain of the left rent-free. He knows he's jacking them up to do something even dumber, provoke a stupid reaction,

  18. Anonymous [AKA "Dewey Dog"] says:

    Jann’s days and net worth are numbered. Wake me when Phi Kappa Psi’s (UVA frat) judgment is paid out. Sic semper tyrannis.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    @Anonymous

    The case just concluded (absent a RS appeal) was won by a feminist college admin (Eramo). Winning a case as a largely-white-male southern fraternity will be more difficult by an order of magnitude, at the least.

    , @jack ryan
    @Anonymous

    Are the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity doing a libel suit?

    Or was it just the UVA Lib woman administrator?

  19. On the way out, Obama is as irony-challenged as ever.

  20. I find it humorous that Leftists believe that a sad little music industry-boosting glossy magazine is something intellectually serious. It’s just (and always has been) Entertainment Weekly for music with a too-cool-for-school, older-teenager clothes and fake-cynical attitude.

    It’s similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.

    Some people’s delusions and denials about reality will go on forever if you let them. No wonder Trump won; these people can never admit they were fooled.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @whorefinder


    It’s similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.
     
    It was serious - often seriously wrong, but serious nonetheless - and it's impact was anything but trivial.

    And whatever sadness was involved was assiduously concealed.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    , @anon
    @whorefinder

    Playboy published fiction by some heavy hitters. Nabokov, for example. In general, the quality of the work was disappointing. However, I did enjoy Roald Dahl's stuff.

    , @Dieter Kief
    @whorefinder

    Writers and photographers who were very important for Rolling Stone

    D. F. Wallace, Ellen Willis, P. J. O'Rourke, Tom Wolfe, Paul Nelson, Peter Travers, Matt Taibbi (Sebastiao Salgado/ Annie Leibowitz) and - William Greider, whom I saw on unzreview lately... all funny at times (Greider the least so), true, but as writers or photographers: Of the very high if not the highest order.

    Replies: @dr kill

    , @Johnny Smoggins
    @whorefinder

    Rolling Stone is for fossilizing boomers who still look forward to the latest Rolling Stones album.

  21. Dressing like an overgrown hipster at the WH is worse than any “fake news” story.

    • Replies: @CJ
    @Marcus


    Dressing like an overgrown hipster at the WH is worse than any “fake news” story.
     
    Check. Polka dot socks. Seven hundred million dollars and the guy looks like he's shopping at Goodwill.

    Replies: @Frau Katze

  22. News is only fake if it actually has some truth in it, see? It’s really quite simple.

  23. @whorefinder
    I find it humorous that Leftists believe that a sad little music industry-boosting glossy magazine is something intellectually serious. It's just (and always has been) Entertainment Weekly for music with a too-cool-for-school, older-teenager clothes and fake-cynical attitude.

    It's similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.

    Some people's delusions and denials about reality will go on forever if you let them. No wonder Trump won; these people can never admit they were fooled.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @anon, @Dieter Kief, @Johnny Smoggins

    It’s similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.

    It was serious – often seriously wrong, but serious nonetheless – and it’s impact was anything but trivial.

    And whatever sadness was involved was assiduously concealed.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @Desiderius


    It was serious – often seriously wrong, but serious nonetheless – and it’s impact was anything but trivial.
     
    Dude, it was porn. That's it. Dress it up with a few expensive rambling articles doesn't make it serious or impactful. It just made it pretentious porn. Larry Flynt, for all his psycho-crassness, was dead right about that, and about Hugh Hefner's contempt and denial.

    And whatever sadness was involved was assiduously concealed.
     
    A bunch of adults trying to argue that porn was somehow not porn? Pretty sad. That's like some teenager still believing in Santa Claus, or that Dad really just went out to get a lotto ticket and will be back any day now.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  24. @Anonym
    What is up with this "fake news" business? It seems the reaction from the left/MSM to the second major defeat of 2016, i.e. the election of Trump, is to figuratively stick their fingers in their ears and yell "la la la I'm not listening!". I was reading an editorial about the alarming rise of fake news, which purportedly is sponsored by Putin and is based in places like Macedonia and Romania, I think. I was thinking "My god, they really have gone off the deep end."

    Maybe I'm the fool for thinking that someone, somewhere in the MSM would put out a column stating that maybe we have some issues. Maybe we had a lot of hubris thinking we could craft the narrative and get Hillary elected. Maybe we should think before we label a racist anyone who we disagree with. Maybe we overrated our own influence. Maybe Merkel was wrong to unilaterally decide to change the demographics of Germany based on feelz. Maybe I should read some alt-right websites and try and understand the criticisms.

    I guess the Catholic Church did not much appreciate Martin Luther and the wave of reformation he sparked. I suppose in this modern war of religion, we cannot accept the modern orthodoxy to just admit being wrong.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion

    I found an article on this "fake news" by the Grauniad, some of the comments are good.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/29/fake-news-echo-chamber-ethics-infosphere-internet-digital#comments

    Replies: @Desiderius

    I guess the Catholic Church did not much appreciate Martin Luther and the wave of reformation he sparked. I suppose in this modern war of religion, we cannot accept the modern orthodoxy to just admit being wrong.

    Appreciate is probably not the right word, but his challenge did spark the Counter Reformation.

  25. @Desiderius
    @whorefinder


    It’s similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.
     
    It was serious - often seriously wrong, but serious nonetheless - and it's impact was anything but trivial.

    And whatever sadness was involved was assiduously concealed.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    It was serious – often seriously wrong, but serious nonetheless – and it’s impact was anything but trivial.

    Dude, it was porn. That’s it. Dress it up with a few expensive rambling articles doesn’t make it serious or impactful. It just made it pretentious porn. Larry Flynt, for all his psycho-crassness, was dead right about that, and about Hugh Hefner’s contempt and denial.

    And whatever sadness was involved was assiduously concealed.

    A bunch of adults trying to argue that porn was somehow not porn? Pretty sad. That’s like some teenager still believing in Santa Claus, or that Dad really just went out to get a lotto ticket and will be back any day now.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @whorefinder


    Dude, it was porn. That’s it.
     
    Porn that kicked your ass, and mine, then.

    Underestimating one's adversaries is a good way to get oneself killed and on a wide enough scale one's country.
  26. @Steve Sailer
    @Yep

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I'm extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I'm terrible at it.

    Replies: @Venator, @Desiderius, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @antipater_1, @Ivy, @Dennis Dale

    The very epitome of virtous humble-bragging.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    @Venator

    LOL! Just like me: I've tried to be evil, oh how I've tried...

  27. OT: like the way the comments hijack this piece, turning it from the fate of Hitchbot in America to that of indigenous female hitchhikers in Canada.

    • Replies: @Miss Laura
    @Miss Laura

    Left out the link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/29/1605275/-Home-of-the-brave-The-story-of-hitchBOT

  28. @Steve in Greensboro
    Perhaps after the January inauguration, Obama can rent Beck's Fauxval Office and have pretend presidential briefings with Wenner and the other commies. Like a shadow government.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    “Perhaps after the January inauguration, Obama can rent Beck’s Fauxval Office and have pretend presidential briefings with Wenner and the other commies. Like a shadow government.”

    I’d forgotten about Beck’s “Fauxval Office” (nice coinage, by the way). What a whack-job that guy is.

    That’s a good idea. And if Obama passes on it, maybe Kramer can get hold of it and set it up in his living room.

  29. They actually think the narrative that the UVA Rape Hoax was meant to illustrate is true though, so like Dan Rather they’d say it’s “fake, but accurate.” That’s way more sophisticated than what the rubes believe for some reason.

    The fake news on social media functions more as a sort of currency of dislike of the target – the Obama born in Kenya thing was popular in some quarters because people who don’t like Obama wanted to register their opposition to his un-americanness.

    • Agree: Barnard
  30. Pretty much everybody in the media is a Sociopath. Rules that normal Losers and Clueless people live by do not apply to him. He makes his own reality.

  31. @Robert Hume
    @bomag

    In this respect, Trump calls for loss of citizenship or possibly jail time for flagburning. Others point out that the Supreme Court says no because free-speech must be protected.

    But we've seen that government action is not required to punish those who make "offensive" statements. The left simply ensures that the offenders are fired and can't find a new job.

    Trump should urge that the names of flag burners be publicized and that anti-flag burning employers fire them and not give them jobs.

    Replies: @Randal, @Bugg

    Trump should urge that the names of flag burners be publicized and that anti-flag burning employers fire them and not give them jobs.

    That would be disgusting McCarthyism and blacklisting!

    Really, you should be sacked for even suggesting it, and prevented from ever working again. If you are in a European state or in the UK, you should be prosecuted for saying it and locked up.

  32. I call it the opposite rule of liberalism. If you google that phrase, I come up at the top of the result list. So, I have that.

    The interesting thing about the alt-right is how they have taken their media ideas from the Left, but miniaturized them. The reason a phrase like “fake news” suddenly turns up is it was part of an e-mail campaign from the DNC. They come up with the idea and then feed it to all of their people in the main news outlets. It gets repeated and before long it is everywhere.

    The alt-right has miniaturized this by cooking up a phrase or story as part of a meme or twitter campaign. It starts bouncing around and others add to it. I’ve seen dozens of links to “breaking stories” that were just spoofs. The people doing it know its fake, but they also know it throws sand in the gears.

    Meme-ing has become the IED of the media wars. The Left has the big guns, but the alt-right has cleverly destructive small weapons.

    • Replies: @Opinionator
    @The Z Blog

    They come up with the idea and then feed it to all of their people in the main news outlets. It gets repeated and before long it is everywhere.

    Do have direct evidence of this? Have any emails been revealed?

  33. @bomag

    is there any social price Wenner will have to pay
     
    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    I suppose that gives some hope to the perennially clumsy, but it might also mean we could use some better social protocols.

    Replies: @Randal, @Robert Hume, @candid_observer, @The Millennial Falcon, @FX Enderby

    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    It’s because their shoes are made of gold.

  34. @Yep
    In the article there's a funny line from Obama about how working class whites in the Midwest "might've heard that Obama and Hillary disrespected them". Being able to lie like that with a straight face really is a valuable skill. Steve have you ever done a post or article about how elites learn to lie so well?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Randal, @Barnard, @Jack D, @Bleuteaux

    Here is the exact quote:

    The challenge we had is not that we’ve neglected these communities from a policy perspective. That is, I think, an incorrect interpretation. You start reading folks saying, “Oh, you know, working-class families have been neglected,” or “Working-class white families have not been paid attention to by Democrats.” Actually, they have. What is true, though, is that whatever policy prescriptions that we’ve been proposing don’t reach, are not heard, by the folks in these communities. And what they do hear is Obama or Hillary are trying to take away their guns or they disrespect you.

    Wanting to take your guns away? That’s crazy talk. I have no idea where they got that idea. Disrespect? There’s nothing, nothing I tell you, disrespectful about wishing that all old white men would hurry up and die. Even in this interview, Obama mentions that Hillary would have gotten 500 electoral votes if only young people were allowed to vote.

    So the messages don’t get heard – If ONLY the media establishment in the US had been willing to help the Democrats get their message across to the people, if only Hillary had had a lot of money to buy TV advertising, then Hillary might have won.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Jack D

    That's a great outtake, as revealing as you'll find about Obama's reasoning, summarized as Obama saying, "Who ya gonna believe? Me, or your lyin' eyes (or deaf ears, in this case)?"


    What is true, though, is that whatever policy prescriptions that we’ve been proposing don’t reach, are not heard, by the folks in these communities.
     
    See? Obama didn't neglect these communities--they just didn't hear about all the great policy prescriptions he had!
    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Jack D

    Obama mentions that Hillary would have gotten 500 electoral votes if only young people were allowed to vote.

    Especially those aged 0 - 5! According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2014 there were more than 20 million children under 5 years old living in the U.S., and 50.2 percent of them were minorities.

    , @Kyle McKenna
    @Jack D


    If ONLY the media establishment in the US had been willing to help the Democrats get their message across to the people, if only Hillary had had a lot of money to buy TV advertising, then Hillary might have won.
     
    Quoted for Transcendent Truth. And in case you doubt me, read up on the lefty sjw sites and you'll see countless claims that the MSM was universally biased in favor of Trump. Talk about an alternate reality..
  35. And his Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is fake too without Johnny ‘Rock n Roll’ Rivers.

  36. @TheBoom

    Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay
     
    Absolutely not. As long as they stay on narrative their readers will forgive them any minor infraction like making stuff up and libeling innocent people especially if those innocent people are the dreaded white, heterosexual Southern males.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Almost Missouri

    The woman who was found to have been defamed by RS, Nicole Eramo, was someone who would normally be considered a goodwhite – the dean of sexual harassment or something like that, but Erdely considered her to be an insufficiently zealous enforcer. She let Haven Monahan go scot free! Clearly a wrecker! The Revolution always eats its own.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    @Jack D

    Eramo's Twitter presence (two months moribund now) indicates she still is a member of the goodwhite cult.

    https://twitter.com/deaneramo

  37. @Steve Sailer
    @Yep

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I'm extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I'm terrible at it.

    Replies: @Venator, @Desiderius, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @antipater_1, @Ivy, @Dennis Dale

    I’m extremely poor at lying

    Ha, case in point.

    What you lack in practice you’d more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling.

    There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Desiderius

    "Ha, case in point. What you lack in practice you’d more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling. There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected."

    Truth telling to a pandering audience. As I stated earlier, confirmation bias is a mother.

    Now the new meme of "fake news stories" is coming at us at full throat by both radicals on the left and right. Let the games begin...

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Charles Erwin Wilson

  38. @Olorin
    One 's' in impresario.

    Also a kinder term than I'd use. ("Fake news explosive diarrhea firehose" comes to mind.)

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    I thought Steve was making a play on words with “Press”.

    • Replies: @Olorin
    @Almost Missouri

    I'll accept that. :D

  39. @Randal
    @Yep

    Poor liars are actively and viciously selected against by any democratic system, for two obvious reasons:

    First, it is inherent in almost any substantial mass democratic system that you can only build a coalition of support big enough to win by lying to convince some people whose interests you have no intention of supporting that you are "on their side".

    Secondly, choosing whom to vote for is an inherently social activity based largely upon subjective an emotional likes and dislikes, and humans are, by evolutionary necessity, heavily armed in both inclinations and abilities to deceive and to detect deception in such areas. Good deceivers rise, and poor ones descend, rapidly.

    The modern mass democracies in the US and UK exacerbate instead of minimising these flaws in at least three key ways:

    First, operating in practice on an ideology of democratic control rather than the representative democracy that the US and UK systems were designed or built for.

    Secondly, having immensely, profoundly intrusive big government systems that interfere in almost every tiny detail of people's lives, making it feel too important to abandon even the illusion of influence that mass democracy provides.

    Third, modern media enabling direct social contact (or rather, the feeling of it) between candidates and voters.

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Sean

    Odysseus was a hero in Greek Epic, but in Tragedy, which arose in democratic Athens, he was always a villain.
    It’s good for king Agamemnon to have a cunning and tricky ally, but it is not good for a democracy to make such leadership skills heroic or worthy of emulation…

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    In Dante's Inferno, Odysseus resides in the eighth circle of hell, nearly as low as you can go.

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel

  40. @Miss Laura
    OT: like the way the comments hijack this piece, turning it from the fate of Hitchbot in America to that of indigenous female hitchhikers in Canada.

    Replies: @Miss Laura

  41. @Steve Sailer
    @Yep

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I'm extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I'm terrible at it.

    Replies: @Venator, @Desiderius, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @antipater_1, @Ivy, @Dennis Dale

    I’m extremely poor at lying.

    This might sting, but this is probably why you aren’t a star in establishment media.

    Blindness to the facts that don’t conform to preconceptions and self-deception for propaganda might not be among your gifts.

  42. I give the integrity of that Obama interview only one out of four 6-pointed Israeli stars.

  43. @bomag

    is there any social price Wenner will have to pay
     
    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    I suppose that gives some hope to the perennially clumsy, but it might also mean we could use some better social protocols.

    Replies: @Randal, @Robert Hume, @candid_observer, @The Millennial Falcon, @FX Enderby

    I think it’s more a result of the Left currently enjoying a near complete monopoly on shame.

    The Right is contained to Fox News, talk radio and niche social media. Any attempts at shaming Rolling Stone from those outlets won’t reach Leftist ears unless they make the gag reel on the Daily Show or get recapped by MediaMatters. Meanwhile the token Rightist columnists in Leftist media, like Frum and Douthat, are far too genteel to embarrass their hosts.

    The few leftists willing to shame leftward, like Dave Rubin and Michael Tracey, are kept away from the mainstream.

    Until the SF/LA/NYC/DC stranglehold on the major social institutions is broken, there will be no real social accountability.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  44. @Jack D
    @Yep

    Here is the exact quote:

    The challenge we had is not that we've neglected these communities from a policy perspective. That is, I think, an incorrect interpretation. You start reading folks saying, "Oh, you know, working-class families have been neglected," or "Working-class white families have not been paid attention to by Democrats." Actually, they have. What is true, though, is that whatever policy prescriptions that we've been proposing don't reach, are not heard, by the folks in these communities. And what they do hear is Obama or Hillary are trying to take away their guns or they disrespect you.
     

    Wanting to take your guns away? That's crazy talk. I have no idea where they got that idea. Disrespect? There's nothing, nothing I tell you, disrespectful about wishing that all old white men would hurry up and die. Even in this interview, Obama mentions that Hillary would have gotten 500 electoral votes if only young people were allowed to vote.

    So the messages don't get heard - If ONLY the media establishment in the US had been willing to help the Democrats get their message across to the people, if only Hillary had had a lot of money to buy TV advertising, then Hillary might have won.

    Replies: @Forbes, @Harry Baldwin, @Kyle McKenna

    That’s a great outtake, as revealing as you’ll find about Obama’s reasoning, summarized as Obama saying, “Who ya gonna believe? Me, or your lyin’ eyes (or deaf ears, in this case)?”

    What is true, though, is that whatever policy prescriptions that we’ve been proposing don’t reach, are not heard, by the folks in these communities.

    See? Obama didn’t neglect these communities–they just didn’t hear about all the great policy prescriptions he had!

  45. @whorefinder
    I find it humorous that Leftists believe that a sad little music industry-boosting glossy magazine is something intellectually serious. It's just (and always has been) Entertainment Weekly for music with a too-cool-for-school, older-teenager clothes and fake-cynical attitude.

    It's similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.

    Some people's delusions and denials about reality will go on forever if you let them. No wonder Trump won; these people can never admit they were fooled.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @anon, @Dieter Kief, @Johnny Smoggins

    Playboy published fiction by some heavy hitters. Nabokov, for example. In general, the quality of the work was disappointing. However, I did enjoy Roald Dahl’s stuff.

  46. @whorefinder
    I find it humorous that Leftists believe that a sad little music industry-boosting glossy magazine is something intellectually serious. It's just (and always has been) Entertainment Weekly for music with a too-cool-for-school, older-teenager clothes and fake-cynical attitude.

    It's similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.

    Some people's delusions and denials about reality will go on forever if you let them. No wonder Trump won; these people can never admit they were fooled.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @anon, @Dieter Kief, @Johnny Smoggins

    Writers and photographers who were very important for Rolling Stone

    D. F. Wallace, Ellen Willis, P. J. O’Rourke, Tom Wolfe, Paul Nelson, Peter Travers, Matt Taibbi (Sebastiao Salgado/ Annie Leibowitz) and – William Greider, whom I saw on unzreview lately… all funny at times (Greider the least so), true, but as writers or photographers: Of the very high if not the highest order.

    • Replies: @dr kill
    @Dieter Kief

    That reminds me again -- any word of PJ O'Rourke since the Trumpening?

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

  47. 2 sophisticated men sharing jovial friendship and commiserating on a comfy couch, nothing new for Obama, and not that there’s anything wrong with that…

    https://www.google.com/search?q=images+obama+couch+boyfriend&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS623US640&espv=2&biw=1423&bih=703&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK_tPRpdHQAhXl0FQKHet-BrYQ_AUICSgE#imgrc=ko8n2-fcRVgW0M%3A

  48. @Robert Hume
    @bomag

    In this respect, Trump calls for loss of citizenship or possibly jail time for flagburning. Others point out that the Supreme Court says no because free-speech must be protected.

    But we've seen that government action is not required to punish those who make "offensive" statements. The left simply ensures that the offenders are fired and can't find a new job.

    Trump should urge that the names of flag burners be publicized and that anti-flag burning employers fire them and not give them jobs.

    Replies: @Randal, @Bugg

    Trump is living in the collective brain of the left rent-free. He knows he’s jacking them up to do something even dumber, provoke a stupid reaction,

    • Agree: anonguy
  49. @Marcus
    Dressing like an overgrown hipster at the WH is worse than any "fake news" story.

    Replies: @CJ

    Dressing like an overgrown hipster at the WH is worse than any “fake news” story.

    Check. Polka dot socks. Seven hundred million dollars and the guy looks like he’s shopping at Goodwill.

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    @CJ

    Why on earth is dressed that way? Doesn't want to be confused with a businessman?

  50. @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer


    I’m extremely poor at lying
     
    Ha, case in point.

    What you lack in practice you'd more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling.

    There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Ha, case in point. What you lack in practice you’d more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling. There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected.”

    Truth telling to a pandering audience. As I stated earlier, confirmation bias is a mother.

    Now the new meme of “fake news stories” is coming at us at full throat by both radicals on the left and right. Let the games begin…

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Corvinus


    Truth telling to a pandering audience. As I stated earlier, confirmation bias is a mother.
     
    No, I don't believe that to be the case. If you'll look more closely, I believe you'll find Steve firmly on the dispossessed center-Left with yourself. Perhaps the disparity in your two characters obscures the closeness of your sympathies.

    In contrast, the bulk of his readers come from various points right.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Corvinus


    confirmation bias is a mother
     
    Corvinus, confirmation bias is your mother. TFIFY

    Replies: @Corvinus

  51. What you lack in practice you’d more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling.

    There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected.

    This man knows of what he speaks.

  52. Truth telling to a pandering audience.

    And this one does not.

  53. @TheBoom

    Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay
     
    Absolutely not. As long as they stay on narrative their readers will forgive them any minor infraction like making stuff up and libeling innocent people especially if those innocent people are the dreaded white, heterosexual Southern males.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Almost Missouri

    One of the strange facts about leftists, which I’ve commented on here before, is that they actually like being lied to, in the right way. Had the JournoList fake news scandal involved right-leaning journalists (rare, I know) instead of lefties, the journalists involved would have immediately been audienceless, since the right doesn’t want to be lied to by the people it is relying on to be informed. The lefty journalists of JournoList, however, went back to producing “journalism” for their lefty audience with hardly a ripple, which tells you that their audience likes being lied to, provided they are the right lies. To them, journalism is merely soothing background music to stroke their self-regard. Facts are technicalities, practically irrelevant.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Almost Missouri

    The other thing that is telling is that "fake news" is by definition right wing. There is no such thing as left wing fake news. All the hate hoaxes, the phony nooses, the poop swastikas, none of those count as "fake news".

  54. @Randal
    @bomag


    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.
     
    And yet others make one seemingly trivial misstep, and are banished to the outer darkness.

    I suppose it depends in part on whether the misstep in question is politically correct or politically incorrect, but it's also funny how being useful to the powerful seems to correlate with "getting away with murder", isn't it? It's noticeable that almost nobody in a prominent "expert" position suffered much loss in position, influence, media bankability or political respect from backing the literally stupid attack on Iraq.

    Replies: @cucksworth, @Olorin

    It’s noticeable that almost nobody in a prominent “expert” position suffered much loss in position, influence, media bankability or political respect from backing the literally stupid attack on Iraq.

    Nobody made one peep about Hilldog being all pro war when it was good politically.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    @cucksworth

    Barack Obama made hay over Hillary's Iraq stupidity. She went into the 2008 primaries with the biggest establishment tailwind we've ever seen for a non-incumbent and Obama made Iraq his first tool against her. He won. Barely.

    So one major top leader paid a price. The establishment can protect crooks and useful idiots in sinecures, press jobs, appointments, and academia. But in positions chosen by the people, you can lose for being sufficiently obviously stupid and evil. Hillary lost in 2016 by the largest margin in recent history among military and retiree families and that probably made the difference in swing states.

    So our presumptive 2008 and 2016 president paid the price for Iraq stupidity twice.

    A few senators and congressmen did over the years as well, but not many. It's really just a few top jobs where the American people and their interests can exert any influence. The rest—the really powerful deep state and the wide state—answer to the sort of power that loved going into Iraq.

  55. @Almost Missouri
    @Olorin

    I thought Steve was making a play on words with "Press".

    Replies: @Olorin

    I’ll accept that. 😀

  56. @DJF
    """"Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay"""

    No, at least not among his own social group since he followed the groups narrative. Some among his group might be angry that he was so sloppy, but most will think "better luck next time in the hunt for the great White, Sexist, Racist, Homophobe, etc Perpetrator"

    Replies: @PenskeFile, @FX Enderby

    No, at least not among his own social group since he followed the groups narrative.

    To paraphrase “Falsehoods in the defense of the narrative is no vice”

    • Replies: @Sean
    @PenskeFile

    Killing in defence of the nation is considered good, so why would lying be different?

    , @Kyle McKenna
    @PenskeFile

    Exactly. "Fake News" essentially means "News that we don't like" and "Real News" means "News we like" whether or not it's actually 'fake'.

    [I do hope that's clear now; j/k]

  57. Um, hasn’t an entire late night genre popped up concerned with nothing but fake news? They are hardly what I’d call right wingers.

  58. @Jack D
    @TheBoom

    The woman who was found to have been defamed by RS, Nicole Eramo, was someone who would normally be considered a goodwhite - the dean of sexual harassment or something like that, but Erdely considered her to be an insufficiently zealous enforcer. She let Haven Monahan go scot free! Clearly a wrecker! The Revolution always eats its own.

    Replies: @Olorin

    Eramo’s Twitter presence (two months moribund now) indicates she still is a member of the goodwhite cult.

  59. @bomag

    is there any social price Wenner will have to pay
     
    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.

    I suppose that gives some hope to the perennially clumsy, but it might also mean we could use some better social protocols.

    Replies: @Randal, @Robert Hume, @candid_observer, @The Millennial Falcon, @FX Enderby

    Yes, it is known as ethnic nepotism. Wenner is one of the chosen.

  60. @DJF
    """"Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay"""

    No, at least not among his own social group since he followed the groups narrative. Some among his group might be angry that he was so sloppy, but most will think "better luck next time in the hunt for the great White, Sexist, Racist, Homophobe, etc Perpetrator"

    Replies: @PenskeFile, @FX Enderby

    No, morality is ethnic. Goyim are moral reprobates and must pay. Wenner is Jewish (hence righteous) and must be paid. Don’t you understand simple morality, goyishe kopf?

  61. @Randal
    @Yep

    Poor liars are actively and viciously selected against by any democratic system, for two obvious reasons:

    First, it is inherent in almost any substantial mass democratic system that you can only build a coalition of support big enough to win by lying to convince some people whose interests you have no intention of supporting that you are "on their side".

    Secondly, choosing whom to vote for is an inherently social activity based largely upon subjective an emotional likes and dislikes, and humans are, by evolutionary necessity, heavily armed in both inclinations and abilities to deceive and to detect deception in such areas. Good deceivers rise, and poor ones descend, rapidly.

    The modern mass democracies in the US and UK exacerbate instead of minimising these flaws in at least three key ways:

    First, operating in practice on an ideology of democratic control rather than the representative democracy that the US and UK systems were designed or built for.

    Secondly, having immensely, profoundly intrusive big government systems that interfere in almost every tiny detail of people's lives, making it feel too important to abandon even the illusion of influence that mass democracy provides.

    Third, modern media enabling direct social contact (or rather, the feeling of it) between candidates and voters.

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel, @Sean

    True, but only in relation to lying for self interested reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Leaders_Lie

  62. @Jack D
    @Yep

    Here is the exact quote:

    The challenge we had is not that we've neglected these communities from a policy perspective. That is, I think, an incorrect interpretation. You start reading folks saying, "Oh, you know, working-class families have been neglected," or "Working-class white families have not been paid attention to by Democrats." Actually, they have. What is true, though, is that whatever policy prescriptions that we've been proposing don't reach, are not heard, by the folks in these communities. And what they do hear is Obama or Hillary are trying to take away their guns or they disrespect you.
     

    Wanting to take your guns away? That's crazy talk. I have no idea where they got that idea. Disrespect? There's nothing, nothing I tell you, disrespectful about wishing that all old white men would hurry up and die. Even in this interview, Obama mentions that Hillary would have gotten 500 electoral votes if only young people were allowed to vote.

    So the messages don't get heard - If ONLY the media establishment in the US had been willing to help the Democrats get their message across to the people, if only Hillary had had a lot of money to buy TV advertising, then Hillary might have won.

    Replies: @Forbes, @Harry Baldwin, @Kyle McKenna

    Obama mentions that Hillary would have gotten 500 electoral votes if only young people were allowed to vote.

    Especially those aged 0 – 5! According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2014 there were more than 20 million children under 5 years old living in the U.S., and 50.2 percent of them were minorities.

  63. @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Randal

    Odysseus was a hero in Greek Epic, but in Tragedy, which arose in democratic Athens, he was always a villain.
    It's good for king Agamemnon to have a cunning and tricky ally, but it is not good for a democracy to make such leadership skills heroic or worthy of emulation...

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    In Dante’s Inferno, Odysseus resides in the eighth circle of hell, nearly as low as you can go.

    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    @Harry Baldwin

    By way of deception...

  64. @Almost Missouri
    @TheBoom

    One of the strange facts about leftists, which I've commented on here before, is that they actually like being lied to, in the right way. Had the JournoList fake news scandal involved right-leaning journalists (rare, I know) instead of lefties, the journalists involved would have immediately been audienceless, since the right doesn't want to be lied to by the people it is relying on to be informed. The lefty journalists of JournoList, however, went back to producing "journalism" for their lefty audience with hardly a ripple, which tells you that their audience likes being lied to, provided they are the right lies. To them, journalism is merely soothing background music to stroke their self-regard. Facts are technicalities, practically irrelevant.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The other thing that is telling is that “fake news” is by definition right wing. There is no such thing as left wing fake news. All the hate hoaxes, the phony nooses, the poop swastikas, none of those count as “fake news”.

  65. @PenskeFile
    @DJF


    No, at least not among his own social group since he followed the groups narrative.
     
    To paraphrase "Falsehoods in the defense of the narrative is no vice"

    Replies: @Sean, @Kyle McKenna

    Killing in defence of the nation is considered good, so why would lying be different?

  66. @whorefinder
    @Desiderius


    It was serious – often seriously wrong, but serious nonetheless – and it’s impact was anything but trivial.
     
    Dude, it was porn. That's it. Dress it up with a few expensive rambling articles doesn't make it serious or impactful. It just made it pretentious porn. Larry Flynt, for all his psycho-crassness, was dead right about that, and about Hugh Hefner's contempt and denial.

    And whatever sadness was involved was assiduously concealed.
     
    A bunch of adults trying to argue that porn was somehow not porn? Pretty sad. That's like some teenager still believing in Santa Claus, or that Dad really just went out to get a lotto ticket and will be back any day now.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Dude, it was porn. That’s it.

    Porn that kicked your ass, and mine, then.

    Underestimating one’s adversaries is a good way to get oneself killed and on a wide enough scale one’s country.

  67. This man knows of what he speaks.

    Indeed so, too well.

    Ultimately, though, all lies are only told to oneself.

    The cloak became so threadbare I was left with no choice but to brave the cold.

  68. @Corvinus
    @Desiderius

    "Ha, case in point. What you lack in practice you’d more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling. There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected."

    Truth telling to a pandering audience. As I stated earlier, confirmation bias is a mother.

    Now the new meme of "fake news stories" is coming at us at full throat by both radicals on the left and right. Let the games begin...

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Truth telling to a pandering audience. As I stated earlier, confirmation bias is a mother.

    No, I don’t believe that to be the case. If you’ll look more closely, I believe you’ll find Steve firmly on the dispossessed center-Left with yourself. Perhaps the disparity in your two characters obscures the closeness of your sympathies.

    In contrast, the bulk of his readers come from various points right.

  69. @The Z Blog
    I call it the opposite rule of liberalism. If you google that phrase, I come up at the top of the result list. So, I have that.

    The interesting thing about the alt-right is how they have taken their media ideas from the Left, but miniaturized them. The reason a phrase like "fake news" suddenly turns up is it was part of an e-mail campaign from the DNC. They come up with the idea and then feed it to all of their people in the main news outlets. It gets repeated and before long it is everywhere.

    The alt-right has miniaturized this by cooking up a phrase or story as part of a meme or twitter campaign. It starts bouncing around and others add to it. I've seen dozens of links to "breaking stories" that were just spoofs. The people doing it know its fake, but they also know it throws sand in the gears.

    Meme-ing has become the IED of the media wars. The Left has the big guns, but the alt-right has cleverly destructive small weapons.

    Replies: @Opinionator

    They come up with the idea and then feed it to all of their people in the main news outlets. It gets repeated and before long it is everywhere.

    Do have direct evidence of this? Have any emails been revealed?

  70. @Dieter Kief
    @whorefinder

    Writers and photographers who were very important for Rolling Stone

    D. F. Wallace, Ellen Willis, P. J. O'Rourke, Tom Wolfe, Paul Nelson, Peter Travers, Matt Taibbi (Sebastiao Salgado/ Annie Leibowitz) and - William Greider, whom I saw on unzreview lately... all funny at times (Greider the least so), true, but as writers or photographers: Of the very high if not the highest order.

    Replies: @dr kill

    That reminds me again — any word of PJ O’Rourke since the Trumpening?

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @dr kill

    He should be quite busy by now, - juste like Steve Sailer, for he has even announced his new book to be out soon on amazon:

    How the Hell Did This Happen?: The Election of 2016 Hardcover – March 7, 2017

    Will he have the last laugh - about himself, this time, because of his - "Trumpening"?

    Hopefully so!

  71. @Steve Sailer
    @Yep

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I'm extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I'm terrible at it.

    Replies: @Venator, @Desiderius, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @antipater_1, @Ivy, @Dennis Dale

    Its difficult for me to lie to other men but really easy for me to lie to women.

  72. @Steve Sailer
    @Yep

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I'm extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I'm terrible at it.

    Replies: @Venator, @Desiderius, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @antipater_1, @Ivy, @Dennis Dale

    Lying is such a déclassé word among pols and media types. They prefer dissembling.

  73. Rolling Stone was a pioneer of “fake news.” Hunter Thompson’s coverage of the 1972 Election campaign dropped a fake bomb or two (I forget the specifics, but it was something like claiming that Edmund Muskie was addicted to Ibogaine). Then there was P.J. O’Rourke with his “on the spot” reports from various hotspots, that always seemed to be written without his venturing out from his hotel bar. So Erdley was just following in a grand Rolling Stone tradition.

  74. @PenskeFile
    @DJF


    No, at least not among his own social group since he followed the groups narrative.
     
    To paraphrase "Falsehoods in the defense of the narrative is no vice"

    Replies: @Sean, @Kyle McKenna

    Exactly. “Fake News” essentially means “News that we don’t like” and “Real News” means “News we like” whether or not it’s actually ‘fake’.

    [I do hope that’s clear now; j/k]

  75. @Anonymous
    Jann's days and net worth are numbered. Wake me when Phi Kappa Psi's (UVA frat) judgment is paid out. Sic semper tyrannis.

    Replies: @Kyle McKenna, @jack ryan

    The case just concluded (absent a RS appeal) was won by a feminist college admin (Eramo). Winning a case as a largely-white-male southern fraternity will be more difficult by an order of magnitude, at the least.

  76. @Venator
    @Steve Sailer

    The very epitome of virtous humble-bragging.

    Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    LOL! Just like me: I’ve tried to be evil, oh how I’ve tried…

  77. @Jack D
    @Yep

    Here is the exact quote:

    The challenge we had is not that we've neglected these communities from a policy perspective. That is, I think, an incorrect interpretation. You start reading folks saying, "Oh, you know, working-class families have been neglected," or "Working-class white families have not been paid attention to by Democrats." Actually, they have. What is true, though, is that whatever policy prescriptions that we've been proposing don't reach, are not heard, by the folks in these communities. And what they do hear is Obama or Hillary are trying to take away their guns or they disrespect you.
     

    Wanting to take your guns away? That's crazy talk. I have no idea where they got that idea. Disrespect? There's nothing, nothing I tell you, disrespectful about wishing that all old white men would hurry up and die. Even in this interview, Obama mentions that Hillary would have gotten 500 electoral votes if only young people were allowed to vote.

    So the messages don't get heard - If ONLY the media establishment in the US had been willing to help the Democrats get their message across to the people, if only Hillary had had a lot of money to buy TV advertising, then Hillary might have won.

    Replies: @Forbes, @Harry Baldwin, @Kyle McKenna

    If ONLY the media establishment in the US had been willing to help the Democrats get their message across to the people, if only Hillary had had a lot of money to buy TV advertising, then Hillary might have won.

    Quoted for Transcendent Truth. And in case you doubt me, read up on the lefty sjw sites and you’ll see countless claims that the MSM was universally biased in favor of Trump. Talk about an alternate reality..

  78. @whorefinder
    I find it humorous that Leftists believe that a sad little music industry-boosting glossy magazine is something intellectually serious. It's just (and always has been) Entertainment Weekly for music with a too-cool-for-school, older-teenager clothes and fake-cynical attitude.

    It's similar to how some sad people tried to argue for years that Playboy was a serious magazine and not merely porn.

    Some people's delusions and denials about reality will go on forever if you let them. No wonder Trump won; these people can never admit they were fooled.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @anon, @Dieter Kief, @Johnny Smoggins

    Rolling Stone is for fossilizing boomers who still look forward to the latest Rolling Stones album.

  79. @cucksworth
    @Randal


    It’s noticeable that almost nobody in a prominent “expert” position suffered much loss in position, influence, media bankability or political respect from backing the literally stupid attack on Iraq.
     
    Nobody made one peep about Hilldog being all pro war when it was good politically.

    Replies: @(((Owen)))

    Barack Obama made hay over Hillary’s Iraq stupidity. She went into the 2008 primaries with the biggest establishment tailwind we’ve ever seen for a non-incumbent and Obama made Iraq his first tool against her. He won. Barely.

    So one major top leader paid a price. The establishment can protect crooks and useful idiots in sinecures, press jobs, appointments, and academia. But in positions chosen by the people, you can lose for being sufficiently obviously stupid and evil. Hillary lost in 2016 by the largest margin in recent history among military and retiree families and that probably made the difference in swing states.

    So our presumptive 2008 and 2016 president paid the price for Iraq stupidity twice.

    A few senators and congressmen did over the years as well, but not many. It’s really just a few top jobs where the American people and their interests can exert any influence. The rest—the really powerful deep state and the wide state—answer to the sort of power that loved going into Iraq.

  80. By now it should be obvious that our outgoing president, and the media he considers real, are essentially fake. They don’t just sometimes create fake news to advance an agenda, they ARE the fake news and the agenda.

    This is true of the Powers That Be that run our global-cog non-country and define our world for us. They decide what is real. They define “things.” They tell us when something is a “thing.”

    Our incoming president will need God’s help to make any headway in that hot fart of a headwind.

  81. Can Wenner just be taken to a wood-chipper, pls? How can this man survive when Trump is President? Who will still give a sh*t about RS in 2017? When you’ve got so much stuff wrong, at what point should you admit that you are too old and out of touch to understand the “sea change?”

  82. > Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay, such as not getting another Oval Office one-on-one, for sponsoring the climate of hate that led to the most lurid fake news fiasco of the last few years?

    According to this site, http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/publishers/jann-wenner-net-worth/, he is worth $700 million. Even if it is exaggerated, it’s probably still in the nine figure range, even if it is closer towards the lower end. With that kind of money, he could pay off dozens of universities in lawsuits for fake stories before he would start sweating it.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @Random Dude on the Internet

    Speaking of large personal fortunes, I had assumed that after leaving office Obama would want to get in on the charity foundation racket, as pioneered by the Clintons. But have they totally queered that racket for anyone else? I think that might be the case.

  83. @Random Dude on the Internet
    > Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay, such as not getting another Oval Office one-on-one, for sponsoring the climate of hate that led to the most lurid fake news fiasco of the last few years?

    According to this site, http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/publishers/jann-wenner-net-worth/, he is worth $700 million. Even if it is exaggerated, it's probably still in the nine figure range, even if it is closer towards the lower end. With that kind of money, he could pay off dozens of universities in lawsuits for fake stories before he would start sweating it.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    Speaking of large personal fortunes, I had assumed that after leaving office Obama would want to get in on the charity foundation racket, as pioneered by the Clintons. But have they totally queered that racket for anyone else? I think that might be the case.

  84. @Corvinus
    @Desiderius

    "Ha, case in point. What you lack in practice you’d more than make up for in reputation for truth-telling. There is no more effective cloak for a lie to pass undetected."

    Truth telling to a pandering audience. As I stated earlier, confirmation bias is a mother.

    Now the new meme of "fake news stories" is coming at us at full throat by both radicals on the left and right. Let the games begin...

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Charles Erwin Wilson

    confirmation bias is a mother

    Corvinus, confirmation bias is your mother. TFIFY

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Charles Erwin Wilson

    No, Chuck, confirmation bias is the burden we all bear. Why deny this observable fact?

  85. @Steve Sailer
    @Yep

    It seems like a valuable skill that you get selected for. I'm extremely poor at lying and, yeah, it would have been useful over the years to be a better liar. But I'm terrible at it.

    Replies: @Venator, @Desiderius, @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta, @antipater_1, @Ivy, @Dennis Dale

    What’s the line–“always tell the truth because it’s easier to remember”? There’s a cousin: if you have to convince others of a lie, the very best way is to convince yourself first. I believe we have a lot of self-interest leading to self-delusion out there. Of course you can also convince yourself the truth doesn’t matter or, better still, doesn’t exist. That’s what postmodernism is for.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Dennis Dale

    If you believe it its not a lie

    George Costanza

  86. Steve Sailer writes:

    “Seriously, is there any social price Wenner will have to pay, such as not getting another Oval Office one-on-one, for sponsoring the climate of hate that led to the most lurid fake news fiasco of the last few years?”

    I respond:

    Well, if you’re PC Left Coast, California/Hollywood connected and also are in with “the tribe” like Wenner – I would just point to the Hollywood/European director Roman Polanski who literally got away with drugging and anally raping a young, teen age girl. So I would basically answer Steve Sailer’s question with a definite

    NO

    Wenner will not have to pay any social price for the UVA Fraternity rape hoax.

  87. @Yep
    In the article there's a funny line from Obama about how working class whites in the Midwest "might've heard that Obama and Hillary disrespected them". Being able to lie like that with a straight face really is a valuable skill. Steve have you ever done a post or article about how elites learn to lie so well?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Randal, @Barnard, @Jack D, @Bleuteaux

    Your comment makes me think of my own experience in corporate America. If there is one single skill required for promotion and advance, it is the ability to lie.

    On a related note, I wonder to what extent (probably great) the corruption and financialization of corporate America has played in the rise of the alt-right.

    I get the feeling that there are a lot of silent, former generic conservatives like me working in the private sector who have had their eyes opened.

    I also wonder if it’s ever going to be possible for liberals to have a similar experience, removing naivete about their party.

  88. @Anonymous
    Jann's days and net worth are numbered. Wake me when Phi Kappa Psi's (UVA frat) judgment is paid out. Sic semper tyrannis.

    Replies: @Kyle McKenna, @jack ryan

    Are the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity doing a libel suit?

    Or was it just the UVA Lib woman administrator?

  89. Plato’s Cave. True then, true now. People want to be deceived. Mary McCarthy famously wrote about Lillian Hellman that every word that came out of her mouth is a lie, including and and the. Pretty much gets the cavernous news/opinion rooms of the NY Times, Washington Post, and yes, the egregious Rolling Stone. News practitioners at these faux sites have so reached the point of diminished self awareness that the news they produce is for the purpose of self pleasuring – in actuality, acts of masturbation. At the expense of being disgustingly graphic and crude, what you see with Obama and Wenner are two people watching political shadows play on the wall and jerking each other off. Sorry to have had to put it like that.

  90. Anonymous [AKA "Anonymous G C"] says:
    @Dennis Dale
    @Steve Sailer

    What's the line--"always tell the truth because it's easier to remember"? There's a cousin: if you have to convince others of a lie, the very best way is to convince yourself first. I believe we have a lot of self-interest leading to self-delusion out there. Of course you can also convince yourself the truth doesn't matter or, better still, doesn't exist. That's what postmodernism is for.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    If you believe it its not a lie

    George Costanza

  91. @dr kill
    @Dieter Kief

    That reminds me again -- any word of PJ O'Rourke since the Trumpening?

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    He should be quite busy by now, – juste like Steve Sailer, for he has even announced his new book to be out soon on amazon:

    How the Hell Did This Happen?: The Election of 2016 Hardcover – March 7, 2017

    Will he have the last laugh – about himself, this time, because of his – “Trumpening”?

    Hopefully so!

  92. @Randal
    @bomag


    Some people seem to land on their feet, no matter what.
     
    And yet others make one seemingly trivial misstep, and are banished to the outer darkness.

    I suppose it depends in part on whether the misstep in question is politically correct or politically incorrect, but it's also funny how being useful to the powerful seems to correlate with "getting away with murder", isn't it? It's noticeable that almost nobody in a prominent "expert" position suffered much loss in position, influence, media bankability or political respect from backing the literally stupid attack on Iraq.

    Replies: @cucksworth, @Olorin

    Also, there have been no consequences for any of the journalists who pronounced Sabrina Rubin’s rape porn fever dream The Most Important Investigative Journalism Achievement of Ever.

    And there were many, as our host documented.

  93. @CJ
    @Marcus


    Dressing like an overgrown hipster at the WH is worse than any “fake news” story.
     
    Check. Polka dot socks. Seven hundred million dollars and the guy looks like he's shopping at Goodwill.

    Replies: @Frau Katze

    Why on earth is dressed that way? Doesn’t want to be confused with a businessman?

  94. @Charles Erwin Wilson
    @Corvinus


    confirmation bias is a mother
     
    Corvinus, confirmation bias is your mother. TFIFY

    Replies: @Corvinus

    No, Chuck, confirmation bias is the burden we all bear. Why deny this observable fact?

  95. @Harry Baldwin
    @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    In Dante's Inferno, Odysseus resides in the eighth circle of hell, nearly as low as you can go.

    Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel

    By way of deception…

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