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From the Washington Post:
Fact Checker
Giuliani’s claim that 93 percent of blacks are killed by other blacks
By Michelle Ye Hee Lee November 25 at 6:00 AM
“Ninety-three percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks. We’re talking about the exception here.”
— Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Nov. 23, 2014
Giuliani faced major backlash by critics for his comments during a “Meet the Press” segment on the anticipated grand jury decision on whether to indict officer Darren Wilson in the fatal shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. Giuliani’s comment sparked a heated exchange with Georgetown Professor and MSNBC contributor Michael Eric Dyson over policing and crime in black communities.
… After noting how he diversified the New York City police force, Giuliani said it was very disappointing that “we are not discussing the fact that 93 percent of blacks are killed by other blacks.” The implication was that the so-called black-on-black crime was far more common than white-on-black crime, so the attention should be paid on the former.
The implication is correct.
It quickly became personal. Giuliani and Dyson talked over each other for most of the 2-minute banter. Eventually, Giuliani uttered the line that went viral almost immediately (“White police officers wouldn’t be there if you weren’t killing each other.”) and Dyson fired back at the “defensive mechanism of white supremacy at work in your mind, sir.” (That comment also was picked up widely by Dyson’s critics.)
Is it correct that 93 percent of black homicides are committed by black offenders? And is homicide by police, like in Ferguson, truly in the minority among black victims?
… Giuliani responded by citing a statistic from a 2010 Bureau of Justice Statistics report which did, indeed, conclude that 93 percent of black homicide victims from 1980 through 2008 were killed by black offenders.
I’ve written about this report a million times. Good for Giuliani for citing it.
The statement implied that intraracial violence in black communities is uniquely bad. Giuliani later repeated this statistic in a FOX News interview.
The statement lacks significant context.
As our colleague Philip Bump at The Fix noted, Giuliani omitted the comparable statistic in the report for white homicide victims: 84 percent of white victims were killed by white offenders.
And that’s relevant because …
The TV discussion wasn’t about blacks killing whites, it was about whites killing blacks.
The only way this statistic could be relevant is if the Washington Post is saying, “Let’s be honest, everybody knows that blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks and obviously that’s the real subject of any discussion of blacks being killed, so you must always mention this 84% figure even though nobody is talking about blacks killing whites because everybody is really thinking about blacks killing whites.”
It’s hard to read people’s minds, but that sure isn’t what the discussion was about. Everybody in the press has been talking about black being gunned down and implying that it’s being done by whites. Remember when Michelle Obama told 60 Minutes: “… as a black man, you know, Barack can get shot going to the gas station …” as if KKK snipers were cruising past the South Kenwood Amoco.
Statements like Giuliani’s perpetuate stereotypes that criminalize black people, [Dyson] said.
I think black people criminalize black people.
… The Pinocchio Test
Giuliani’s statistic is rooted in Department of Justice studies. But it lacks significant context — especially because race relations and police treatment of minorities are complex and emotionally-charged topics. We also found it difficult to support Giuliani’s personal estimation of the rarity of deadly force by white police officers on black victims, but were limited by the unreliable data on homicides by police.
Ultimately, it is misleading for Giuliani to simplify this topic to the 93 percent statistic and then omit the corresponding statistic for intraracial white murders.
Two Pinocchios
In other words, hey, look, a squirrel!
Sorry, but the actual “needed context” is that, according to that Obama Administration report, black are almost eight times more likely to commit homicide than whites are, and over six times more likely to be the victim of a homicide. (If you want more context, the actual black-white ratio is even higher because this is one of the few federal reports that lumps a lot of Hispanics in with whites.)
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Yes, the irony of the “Two Pinocchios” for lack of context is that the context makes the stats all the more damning. Does the Factchecker–who provides the context–realize that?
So, “complex and emotionally-charged topics” require “significant context” around the statistics used to describe them. What does that mean?
"Because Science!"
"Because Ted Conference!"
"You just got that off of Fox News, right?"
"Correlation does not imply..."
" ... and anyway 85% of differences... "
"... socially constructed... "
"It's complicated (If you allow me to save face now, I may just not destroy your social standing and career through social media at some point in the future of my choosing)."Replies: @Anonymous, @Whiskey
Why are people talking about black homicide anyways?
About half of the murder victims in the US are black. That’s why. Despite being ~15% of the US population, they get murdered more than 3 times as often. So it’s important to keep in mind who is doing the murdering (ie, mostly other black people).
That’s why the 84% number is irrelevant. Murder isn’t as big of a problem in the white community. If blacks were being murdered at the same rate as whites, what would the homicide rate be for the US? Closer to Canada’s.
“Michelle Ye Hee Lee”
??? hee hee hee.
“Yee-hee-hee” said the clown.
Backlash for merely stating the facts by the SJW media. Thankfully, sites like Reddit and 4chan and unz at least they see through the BS.
Here’s a useful visual summary of black vs white serious crime:
The backlash is a result of liberal whites not wanting to accept that Blacks are different from the other races, really different.
And when anyone brings it up, they go bats**t crazy, because it ruins their utopian inner narrative that we are all the same and it’s philosophical underpinnings found in post-modernism, a well that they have drank deeply from.
This looks like a writer had to torture out a piece after being given an assignment by some higher-up to knock out Guiliani’s absurd made up statistic that turned out to be, you know, correct.
So that distorts the numbers to show that whites are more violent than they really are.
If the Asian woman who wrote this article ever becomes a victim of Black criminality, I will feel zero sympathy for her. And it is possibility it could happen to her especially since she works in 50 percent Black Washington D.C. You are never too far from the Black underclass in that town.
If it happens in China.
I went to college with the fact checker. She’s pretty new to the gig at Wa-Po and, I think, has only been there a couple of weeks, so I’d cut her a little slack because she’s still figuring out the job. According to her private FB page, she’s working on a follow-up piece to this, so there could be either a change in Pinnochios or some mental gymnastics coming soon.
Golly, At least Jeff Bezos is making sure he does not have to pay much for this Cultural Marxist piffle.
http://michelleyhlee.com/about/
Seriously doubt she has that much personal experience with the Ghetto realities having lived in Guam, Arizona and the increasing whitopia of Washington DC.
Ms Lee is at most 26-27 years old. She graduated in 2010.
https://myhlee5.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/2014leeresumeweb.pdf
Tweets by myhlee
How nice having this young Korean woman working as a paid SJW.
Something tells me Ms Lee has never heard of Jared Taylor or Steve Sailer.
STEVE HOW ABOUT GIVING Ms Lee an TWEET!!!!
If a secret service officer had killed Michael Brown while guarding President Obama, would people still be rioting?
Also, OT, but Giuliani’s disastrous presidential bid explains why Chris Christie won’t be the next GOP nominee. Christie has all of Giuliani’s flaws, but few of his advantages.
First that SNL skit, now this. They’re probably trying to figure out how to “fact check” that embarrassing split-screen image on CNN.
“Barack can get shot going to the gas station”
Didn’t the Washington sniper kill someone quite near the White House ?
Is she really faulting Giuliani for not pointing out that while only 7% of black murder victims are killed by non-blacks (which breaks down to around 1 out of every 14 murders); more than double that, a whopping 16% of white murders (1 out of every 6) are committed by People of Color?
Is this some sort of passive aggressive Straussian rhetorical Jiu-Jitsu move to revenge all the Asian murder victims that have recently fallen at the hands of black killers? Or is she really just that stupid?
Was Rudy always this ballsy? Or is this a sign his political ambitions are extinguished?
(Who woulda thunk there’d come a day when quoting a Black president’s own crime stats was controversially racist?)
IMO he's been remarkably straight on for a long time. He enjoys a good debate, and had his own radio call-in show while he was mayor. Here is my all-time favorite Rudy rant, one that makes me forgive all his negatives:
Rudy Giuliani's Ferret RantReplies: @Reg Cæsar
Giuliani is wrong. Most blacks die of natural causes.
abortion
Not a natural cause.
Violence is part of their nature.
We need more journalists who actually went to school with blacks. Too many seem to believe that ordinary blacks are just like the blacks they see on ESPN or meet in college. Here is Ezra Klein:
“Why did Michael Brown, an 18-year-old kid headed to college, refuse to move from the middle of the street to the sidewalk?”
Actually, that part is totally plausible. It’s hard to imagine any black male agreeing to be told where to walk.
Klein attended University High School in Irvine. His father is a math professor. I’m guessing that the first black person he met was probably Jamelle Bouie.
93 percent of Black homicide victims are murdered by other Blacks and that is just the nationwide statistic, but locally in many major cities across America that percentage will be even higher than that. In Chocolate cities with very White residents like Gary, Indiana and Detroit Michigan for example, I can easily see it being 100 percent of Black homicide victims being murdered by other Blacks.
Ya lost me there.
It means, “Someone call the data masseuse!”
dotters don’t count. just collateral damage in the narrative.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/videos/society/crime/here-owner-ferguson-market-standing-wreckage-his-store
Vox weighs in about the ‘giant negro’ trope that appears in Darren Wilson’s testimony: https://twitter.com/binarybits/status/537343550246375425
So, "gentle giant" trope good, "giant negro" trope bad?Replies: @dearieme, @WowJustWow, @Lugash, @Michelle, @Abe
You should see the nastiness that erupts at dinner parties when I occasionally suggest that we conduct two quick thought experiments and game-play/project consequences. In one all the blacks in the country disappear; in the other all the whites. I am immediately accused of plotting genocide on a massive scale which suggests to me that my accusers have often pondered the first experiment with some wistfulness. But trying to get a “progressive” to trawl the sick depths of her own mind is at least as hopeless a task as trying to make her engage in fact-based reason.
Also, some real perspective would be added by separating the murders into categories of “murder by stranger” and “murder by family member / close acquaintance”. In the former category, I bet the percent of whites murdered by non-whites would rise dramatically above the overall average.
The greatest threat to the Michael Browns of America is the other Michael Browns.
If history took a slightly different turn, President Rudolph Giuliani might be sitting in the White House right now. It’s fun to imagine what his response to Ferguson might have been. For all his faults, here is a guy who knows the 93% statistics, as well as (you can bet) all the other related statistics you can’t air on TV. Same thing cannot be said about any other past or potential future Presidents, either Democrat or Republican.
OT
Sort of related to Obama’s executive action. And inspired by Ferguson. It’s been suggested that a Republican president could use an executive action to allow capital gains tax to be not enforced by the IRS. I have a feeling that the era of Anglo Americans being the world’s most honest tax payers may cease and they may start to cheat on taxes just as so many ethnics end vibrants do. That may be the only way to cut back the welfare state and thus put blacks back to work by having jobs for them to take by reducing the appeal of immigration to the poor of the world.
Humor in danger in the age of PC.
Humophobia.
Ha ha ha. What was he going to study? Advanced Intimidation Techniques? How to throw your weight around?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Washington Post’s logic seems to be: Giuliani injected a fact into an emotionally-charged debate, but because it’s an emotionally-charged debate he was wrong to inject a fact that might contradict other people’s emotionally-based opinions.
Reality makes left-wingers sad and angry, and so they demand that everyone live in denial.
Which makes me drink.
A statistic that would actually help put things in context is the number of people killed by police versus number of police killed in the line of duty, which is something like 5-to-1 if I recall correctly. So when going in to a dangerous situation, what might a cop be thinking that leads him to use deadly force? Perhaps “There’s a one in six chance I’m the one who ends up in a coffin”?
MMMM, seems to suffer from the fact that Brown actually was a really big guy.Indeed, even Brown’s advocates concede that with their use of the “gentle giant” trope.
So, “gentle giant” trope good, “giant negro” trope bad?
Oh, boy, somebody is noticing. Because Rudy beat a black mayoral candidate in 92 when one of the major issues was crime (e.g. Crown Heights, Freddy’s Fashion Mart, etc) he appears to come across as more authoritative on the issue along with his personal experience as NY mayor when NY went from high crime to lower crime. Therefore his bringing up the stat is based on personal experience as mayor and is relevant to the discussion at large on crime.
Here’s how to know when you’re being lied to, by a liar:
1. He says “that lacks proper context” in response to an argument you’ve made, one which contradicts his ideological position of the last few decades.
2. He refuses to provide proper context.
3. He makes no call for further investigation, and does not state his intention to find and provide that proper context.
Ye Hee Lee gets a “check” for all three.
Because that’s how people who tend toward the stupid and violent handle disagreements. On television, they’re smart enough to know that all they have to do is shout “LALALALALALALALALALALALA” for a few minutes, and the awful truth-telling session will be over, and its damage minimized.
Well, you know how to avoid police brutality in Ferguson over the last couple days? Stay at home, and don’t go tipping over police cars, setting them on fire, looting local businesses, etc. Sounds like a pretty easy solution to me.
Lol. Talk about your reverse Briar Patches (from a black POV. It’s just a plain old Briar Patch from my POV). Here’s how: re-divide municipalities on racial lines. Black people get black gov’t, black police, and most importantly, a black tax base to pay for them.
Problem “solved.”
I just can’t stop chuckling at the idea that the situation of your typical black neighborhood will be improved by a “police force that looks like the community they serve.”
What statement is she referring to? How did it imply that? It’s a mystery – she’s only a blogger, cut her some slack.
All this because liberals refuse to admit that blacks are up in arms over Ferguson because they’re racist hypocrites.
Wrong again, black racist hypocrite. The vast majority of cop-on-black shootings are justifiable homicide. Many of the shooters are black, too. And studies show both black and white cops are more reluctant to shoot a black perp who needs to be shot than they are to shoot a white perp who needs to be shot.
The clue is the 6’4″ (or whatever it was), 275 lb psycho that the media and the mau-maus are championing as a little black chile murdered in cold blood by the police (shit you not, con talk radio had a sound bite from a black mau-mau guy referring to Brown as “a little dead child” (I’m paraphrasing, but those were the words he used).
This is what psychopaths and sociopaths do. When they’re in the wrong, they go on the attack. They make such a stink that you’ll think twice about ever confronting them with their misbehavior again. They don’t seem to have the wiring (future orientation?) necessary to understand that eventually, decent people are going to dump them for good. Or maybe they figure the world has an inexhaustible supply of new suckers to be fleeced.
Ah, so it’s the media’s fault. I agree.
Brilliant. You found the one thing actually more absurd than fact checking an SNL skit.
The statement lacks significant context.
Translation: “My side has already provided all the context you need: Whites kill Blacks because Racism! That is all you need to know. Any deviation from this party line will be reported to the proper authorities.”
Giuliani could have added more context by bringing up America’s Number #1 Taboo Issue – black on White violence and crime. And increasingly black on EVERYBODY crime in America.
Does the Washington Post really want to go there?
The issue in this case was who kills blacks in America and why do some of these cases get attention and protests while the vast majority are ignored as uninspiring.
Giuliani’s comments were correct but they didn’t go far enough.
He was unprepared to deal with a black racist bigot like Dyson who has been running the same act in the media for 20+ years.
I don’t think most people are ready to deal with how ignorant and inaccurate most Americans are about racial demographics in America. It’s partly an emotional defense mechanism but also simply willful ignorance feed by a willfully ignorant media.
So, "gentle giant" trope good, "giant negro" trope bad?Replies: @dearieme, @WowJustWow, @Lugash, @Michelle, @Abe
“So, “gentle giant” trope good, “giant negro” trope bad? Could you compromise on “burly”?
Two Pinocchios means: “true, just not a politically correct toeing of The Narrative.”
Actually, if only 84 percent of whites are killed by other whites, that is pretty bad. But is not bad in the sense that the MSM would present it. It is bad in the sense that in an increasingly multicultural society, peace among the various groups can best be kept by keeping different groups from preying upon others.
In an ideal world, there would be zero homicides. But so long as there are going to be homicides, the ideal rate would be 100 percent of the homicides of a particular group being committed by fellow members of that group. Thus, if there are to be homicides, it is preferable that 100 percent of black victims are killed by fellow blacks, and 100 percent of white victims are killed by fellow whites, etc. By this standard, the black-on-black rate is better than the white-on-white rate precisely because it is higher.
Keep in mind in a non-multicultural world, this is a non-issue. For example, in Japan the Japanese-on-Japanese murder rate is probably 100 percent. But no one believes this to be a problem. It is only a problem in multicultural societies where the government tries to keep the peace between competing groups.
That 16 percent of whites (maybe more due to hispanics being wrongly counted as white) are being killed by nonwhites is something that should concern the government. Obviously 16 percent is not the tipping point, but there must a number that will cause racial strife. Would whites tolerate 20 percent of their murders being committed by nonwhites? What about 30 percent? There must be a number where whites would become violent. What that number is, I don’t know. But the government and the media better hope we don’t reach it.
That also means the percentage of non-whites killed supposedly by whites is too large.
Off-topic but interesting: Yiddish Isn’t Enough
A Yeshiva Graduate Fights for Secular Studies in Hasidic Education
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/23/nyregion/a-yeshiva-graduate-fights-for-secular-studies-in-hasidic-education.html?_r=0
Here’s the opening section:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/23/nyregion/a-yeshiva-graduate-fights-for-secular-studies-in-hasidic-education.html?_r=0
The Canadians (read: "goyim") are being sued because they didn't play Nazi stormtrooper to the Hassidic community.
The Canadians (read: "goyim") are being sued for being tolerant, respectful, sensitive and multicultural.
You can't win for losing with these folks. They'll guilt-trip you and get money from you no matter what you do. Snatch the kids? You are an anti-semite! Leave the kids with mom and dad? You are a child abuser!
So here is my question. Rather than displacing their psychological ethnic and family issues on us and dragging us into it, and making us pay for mommy's and daddy's educational choices, why don't they take it up with their own mommy and daddy and tribe and leave us out of it?
More fundamentally, why are they still here? Didn't the Tsar fall 100 years ago? Didn't WWII end 70 years ago? Hasn't Israel, their national homeland, been around for 65 years now?
OT: Paging Steve – the next big progressive dog pile will be over this alleged rape at a UVA fraternity:
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119
A big pack of rich preps at a good school taking turns brutalizing a young woman? And she doesn’t report if for a couple of years? Almost a dozen witnesses and nobody says anything about it in all that time? The whole thing has the whiff of the Duke Lacrosse fantasia about it.
Pay attention on it?
Steve,
Several years ago the black on black crime talking point was a lot more common across the board. I noticed some time ago that is has very slowly but surely fallen out of favor. People (some) start thinking about the other three boxes and it’s, “uh-oh”. I’m not saying that the fading away is deliberate. It could be random wording.
“Significant content”: hatefacts are immersed and dispersed within pages and pages of maudlin, anecdotal drivel either fabricated or enchanced.
So, "gentle giant" trope good, "giant negro" trope bad?Replies: @dearieme, @WowJustWow, @Lugash, @Michelle, @Abe
The point is that if Brown had been scrawny and weak, Wilson would have been more justified in killing him because it would mean he wasn’t motivated by harmful stereotypes. And when Brown still didn’t stop charging after Wilson had almost emptied a full clip into him, Wilson shouldn’t have fired a final shot into his head, but should have instead walked him over to the sidewalk and calmly sat down and explained that he was bringing up very painful historical memories in the minds of the onlookers by being so superhumanly impervious to bullets. Then they could have shared a hug and NBC’s “The More You Know” shooting star logo would fly by.
So, "gentle giant" trope good, "giant negro" trope bad?Replies: @dearieme, @WowJustWow, @Lugash, @Michelle, @Abe
Whatever you do, don’t refer to him as burly.
So, "gentle giant" trope good, "giant negro" trope bad?Replies: @dearieme, @WowJustWow, @Lugash, @Michelle, @Abe
Actually all those articles he cites totally disprove his point. There was another guy the other day saying that Black men were “demonized” by the media who constantly run stories about violent Black men running amok all over the US! Oh irony. It’s not that there actually is enough violent behavior on the part of Black males to print articles about every day in every major newspaper in the country, it’s the mere act of reporting it that causes whites to fear them.
Do they think black crime is caused by reporting on it? Or is reality beyond the pale?
“Context” my posterior.
The Post nor anyone else said the statistic was untrue , because, “context” it is unassailably true.
Dyson is a down who like The One probably has a pointless degree or 2 in race studies or some nonsense that isn’t work much off campus.
And let’s be blunt; what you see with Travvon Martin, Michael Brown, et al in this country is an ill-educated often-drugged barely-employed underclass dependent on the government for all support, spare that which they get from crime. Without them, Sharpton and Jackson and the inner city pols (of which Obama is merely the most successful of the species) would cease to exist. Would guess this is a very small subset of African-American people but that’s where the trouble is. And sadly the rest of the venn diagram doesn’t like discussing nor dealing with the subset.
There are occasionally cops who screw up disastrously (like Officer Liang in Brooklyn last week who is a world of poop perhaps deservedly so; and as an Asian fellow shooting a back guy kinda screws up the typical racist angle). You may have a Justin Volpe who loses his mind in a moment, but that was probably roid rage, not racism, and that’s back in the 1990s . And among those who saw to it that Volpe was prosecuted to the fullest was noted racist ….Rudy Guiliani. No American cop in 2014 goes to work with the idea he is going to kill a black guy that day. The reality is the biggest problem in the black inner city is the underclass black people, not Whitey the racist cop.
No need to worry, WeeklyStandard and BlameBigGovt are on the case:
If you don’t like things like her fact check, then do something like that but do it smarter.
Steve –
I’ve been trying to catch up with your Ferguson coverage over the past few months, but it seems that on posts that aren’t on the front page, reader comments will not display. I’ve tried Firefox, Chrome, Opera and IE – with and without AdBlock turned on – and no dice. The comments are half the joy of your site – always fascinating, and good for several-hour-long link marathons across the internet…
I've since surmised that Unz does this by design so that comments are not permanently indexed by Google. Instead, posts (and up to 200 comments, iirc) are migrated to a 'comments' directory that is apparently excluded from search engine indexing.
So, for example, to view comments for:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
go instead to:
https://www.unz.com/comments/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
Note that the comments are in reverse chronological order.Replies: @Loyal Reader, @SFG
The 2013 video of officer Wilson harassing, actually bullying, a citizen is the problem. Michel Brown’s shooting was not the cause. Years of harassment by Ferguson PD is what the riot was about.
Makes a lot of sense.
I saw Giuliani on Meet the Press and he actually made a much stronger point and THAT point was the reason he gave for so many white cops in black neighborhoods: In NYC, 70-75% of crime is in black areas. So, the Washington Post is being even more disingenuous.
There was a horrible crime last Christmas here in NJ where 4 black men carjacked a man at a shopping mall and killed the poor guy. News reports said that 90% of carjackings in New Jersey were committed by blacks. These are devastating statistics and they are the reason we have so much de facto segregation and white flight.
Yesterday, Giuliani followed up with another statistic: His administration lowered the homicides by 65% by lowering the homicides in the black community. He said there were virtually no homicides in the white community.Replies: @Art Deco
Our local PBS affiliate has a travel show with an uber-SWPL host. He’s made it his secondary mission to educate us rubes about Islam really being the religion of peace, and when ugly reality threatens to intrude (“This chain of lovely Italian castles was built as a warning system against Muslim pirate slavers…”) his stock response is: “It’s complicated”.
The standard SJW stages of denial could thus be summarized as:
“Wow. Just wow.”
“Because Science!”
“Because Ted Conference!”
“You just got that off of Fox News, right?”
“Correlation does not imply…”
” … and anyway 85% of differences… ”
“… socially constructed… ”
“It’s complicated (If you allow me to save face now, I may just not destroy your social standing and career through social media at some point in the future of my choosing).”
Remembered the Amalfi Coast episode.
Ah, Rudy, Rudy. You may be a cross-dressing crook, but I’m glad I voted for you. All New York salutes you.
WaPo also gave Obama 0 (zero) Pinnochios for claiming he never said use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime would constitute a “red line” for the United States (after it appeared the Assad regime had used chemical weapons on its own people).
Is it me, or does any white collar profession not in the sciences pursued by today’s twenty-somethings chiefly demand the skills and internal state of a brown-nosing 14 year old bookreport writer?
I think black people criminalize black people.
No, black people kill black people.
So, "gentle giant" trope good, "giant negro" trope bad?Replies: @dearieme, @WowJustWow, @Lugash, @Michelle, @Abe
seems to suffer from the fact that Brown actually was a really big guy.Indeed, even Brown’s advocates concede that with their use of the “gentle giant” trope.
@syon
He wasn’t just big, he was downright BURLY!
I suspect white liberals aren’t getting as tired of black misbehavior as we were hoping.
If you want to gauge white liberal attitudes on black crime and aggressive policing look at the muted response that has greeted the accidental death of an AA in NYC last week. If it weren't for Reason's tiresome "reverse police blotter" I wouldn't have even known about it.
Left wing Guilianism is the dominate political ideology of our town in major urban areas. As compensation Al Sharpton will be given reign to rile up as much chaos as he wants in Middle America. Although at some point even that will be shut off since you don't want to make Middle America seem so unwelcoming to AAs that they might not relocate south after being frisked for the fourth time. Stop and Frisk at this point should more accurately be called take the hint and move already.
‘There was another guy the other day saying that Black men were ‘demonized’ by the media who constantly run stories about violent Black men running amok all over the US!”
Do they think black crime is caused by reporting on it? Or is reality beyond the pale?
So when cops bully blacks, they riot, loot and burn down stores of small business owner and beat anyone they don’t like senseless or try to murder them.
Makes a lot of sense.
First class trolling by Rep. Peter King.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/peter-king-obama-ferguson-reaction-113168.html?hp=l2_4
"Because Science!"
"Because Ted Conference!"
"You just got that off of Fox News, right?"
"Correlation does not imply..."
" ... and anyway 85% of differences... "
"... socially constructed... "
"It's complicated (If you allow me to save face now, I may just not destroy your social standing and career through social media at some point in the future of my choosing)."Replies: @Anonymous, @Whiskey
You’re confusing “peace” with secular liberalism. Islam is a religion of “peace” just as Christianity, which spread by the sword, is.
Chocolate cities with very White residents
Ya lost me there.
White liberals will never grow tired of black crime in places they don’t live or aspire to live so don’t draw any conclusions from Ferguson.
If you want to gauge white liberal attitudes on black crime and aggressive policing look at the muted response that has greeted the accidental death of an AA in NYC last week. If it weren’t for Reason’s tiresome “reverse police blotter” I wouldn’t have even known about it.
Left wing Guilianism is the dominate political ideology of our town in major urban areas. As compensation Al Sharpton will be given reign to rile up as much chaos as he wants in Middle America. Although at some point even that will be shut off since you don’t want to make Middle America seem so unwelcoming to AAs that they might not relocate south after being frisked for the fourth time. Stop and Frisk at this point should more accurately be called take the hint and move already.
http://conservativetribune.com/police-black-crime
A Milwaukee cop speaks plainly on crime and race. If he isn’t Twitter Lynched, hopefully this keeps the momentum on honest discussions on crime. Less Narrative.
In the city of Chicago the percentage of blacks being murdered by blacks looks to be pretty close to 100%, except for a few here and there being done by Hispanic gangbangers. From the info available on a couple websites it seems that white on black homicides are non-existent; there could be a couple under the radar one supposes. In contrast black on white homicides looks like it claims a much higher proportion of white victims (hold-ups, street rage, insane blacks, etc). Also, part of it is who is being counted as ‘white’ (Arabs, light skinned “white” Hispanics, mixtures).
Brown was not headed to “college”. He was going to attend a trade school and try to learn to be an HVAC mechanic. There’s nothing wrong with that, but Klein is the one who feels compelled to lie.
“In an ideal world, there would be zero homicides. But so long as there are going to be homicides, the ideal rate would be 100 percent of the homicides of a particular group being committed by fellow members of that group. Thus, if there are to be homicides, it is preferable that 100 percent of black victims are killed by fellow blacks,”
In cities like Black as hell Detroit where there are very few Whites left, the percentage of Black victims who are murdered by their fellow Blacks probably is 100 percent.
93 percent is just a national average, but in cities/towns in this country that are much much much much Blacker than the national average, the percentage will be either 100 percent or very close to it like 99 percent for example.
I know that when I’m in a debate where people talk over each other and it is hard to get a word in edgewise I always make sure that whenever I mention a fact I also try to get in any facts related to it, however irrelevant they are to the point I’m trying to make.
Thank you. I was thinking they could debunk the misleading optics by pointing out that CNN gives the impression rioters are hurling tear gas canisters back at police at the very moment Obama is denouncing violence, when, as every one in the media knows, there’s a good seven to twenty second delay on those feeds…
“In the city of Chicago the percentage of blacks being murdered by blacks looks to be pretty close to 100%, ”
The majority of Blacks in Chicago live in zip codes where at least 90 percent of the population is Black. So Blacks in the Windy City are on average quite segregated from the White masses.
The more Blacks are residentially segregated from Whites, the less likely they will be killed by someone who racially looks like Darren Wilson.
That is why I am surprised the pro-Michael Brown crowd do not advocate for more racial segregation between Blacks and Whites.
I think it is extreme hypocrisy to be pro-Michael Brown and at the same time be in favor of more racial integration between Blacks and Whites. Racial integration killed Michael Brown.
“Do they think black crime is caused by reporting on it?”
Schrodinger’s blacks.
My understanding was that the wrong counting was only of offenders. Hispanics etc are only white when murdering, not being murdered. So you are correct, almost certainly more than 16% of whites are killed by non-whites.
That also means the percentage of non-whites killed supposedly by whites is too large.
Officer Liang in Brooklyn last week
Lol. I heard about that incident on NPR a couple days ago. All the host said was that “William Bratton’s” police department had killed an unarmed black guy, leaving out that the cop was Asian. (REDACT SHOOTER NAME. MENTION BRATTON).
“Accused and found guilty by the media for a crime he did not commit, Darren Wilson fled to the Los Angeles underground where he met up with George Zimmerman, Crazy Steve Sailer, and that guy from the Duke Lacrosse Six- you know, the good-looking one with excellent socially savvy. He lost his job over at Citibank over unofficial charges of embezzlement. I dunno- maybe after his acquittal he felt invincible or something. Anyhoo, if you need help. If you’ve got nowhere to turn. Maybe YOU can call on- the HBD Team!” (doo-do-doo doo-doo-do … )
He was neither harassing nor bullying anyone in that video (which lasts all of 15 seconds). You just can’t stop lying.
“White liberals will never grow tired of black crime in places they don’t live or aspire to live so don’t draw any conclusions from Ferguson.”
The vast majority of White liberals are hypocrites regarding vibrant diversity, but there is a small minority who do walk the walk and are not just all talk.
Awhile back I was in Oakland driving pass a seedy ghetto Black neighborhood with my windows up of course, while on my way to the Oakland Oracle Arena. I remember seeing a White male jogging in one of Oakland’s most dangerous Black neighborhoods. That took a lot of balls.
Seth Meyers DID have a funnny comment on this,saying Rudy gave the 93 percent figure…after being asked,”What are you doing for Thanksgiving”‘
Christianity spread by the sword only at the peripheries of Christendom and mostly done at the period when Carolingian cultural was trying to reconstruct European civilization. In other words conversion by conquest was the exception. Islam is the exact opposite. There are places where it spread peacefully, but there aren’t many.
I will.
If it happens in China.
This also makes no sense.
The reason tens of thousands of whites and blacks are demonstrating about Mike Brown across the USA is because he was their “friend” or “kinfolk” (whereas all the other dead Negros were strangers)? I don’t think so.
And the reason all them folks flipped out about Mike Brown was because Brown’s shooting was “unjust”? What? You mean the thousands of other Negros killed by Negros this year and completely ignored were killed for “justice”? I don’t think so.
And why should anybody else getting shot be a “solace” to this fool? “Oh well, Uncle Tyrone, he daid, but since 5000 other bruthas got kilt this year, it ain’t so bad.” I don’t think so.
I've been trying to catch up with your Ferguson coverage over the past few months, but it seems that on posts that aren't on the front page, reader comments will not display. I've tried Firefox, Chrome, Opera and IE - with and without AdBlock turned on - and no dice. The comments are half the joy of your site - always fascinating, and good for several-hour-long link marathons across the internet...Replies: @anon
I brought this issue up several weeks (or months) ago and Steve replied that he didn’t have the same problem.
I’ve since surmised that Unz does this by design so that comments are not permanently indexed by Google. Instead, posts (and up to 200 comments, iirc) are migrated to a ‘comments’ directory that is apparently excluded from search engine indexing.
So, for example, to view comments for:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
go instead to:
https://www.unz.com/comments/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
Note that the comments are in reverse chronological order.
Its too bad they're in reverse chronological order though. Hopefully they can change that.
Yes, excellent point, and that’s really what we worry about when we discuss crime and public policy.
I've since surmised that Unz does this by design so that comments are not permanently indexed by Google. Instead, posts (and up to 200 comments, iirc) are migrated to a 'comments' directory that is apparently excluded from search engine indexing.
So, for example, to view comments for:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
go instead to:
https://www.unz.com/comments/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
Note that the comments are in reverse chronological order.Replies: @Loyal Reader, @SFG
Thanks Anon! Exactly what I was looking for.
Its too bad they’re in reverse chronological order though. Hopefully they can change that.
This is absurd on its face. Mohammed, the exemplar of the religion, was a polygamist, warmonger, and pedophile. Hence, polygamy, warmongering, and pedophilia are not just tolerated in Islam, they’re sacred – even expected. None of these things is true of Christ.
The exemplar of Islam spread it by the sword. He conquered, kept slaves, etc. The contrast with the exemplar of Christianity could hardly be more striking.
The utter lack of any real black separatist movement in this country tells the real story. Blacks don’t want to be free of white oppression; they want more of what whites produce, and see threatening them with violence and guilt-tripping them as the way to get it.
Are you aware of any separatist movement in the world today among a subpopulation without a territory they dominate demographically?
While we're at it, this whole dispute in Ferguson has almost nothing to do with the world's worldly goods, but with the distribution of recognition and deference and people's self-concept.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @NOTA
It is worse than that in Canada. Much worse. Up there some Canadian hasid has sued the Canadian government (read “goyim”) because he didn’t get a good secular education. Nope. The Canadians (read: “goyim”) respected his multicultural community and went along with his entire family, rabbis and religion and let him attend a Yeshiva. The Canadians (read: “goyim”) didn’t drag him kicking and screaming out of his Yeshiva and force him to go to a public school with (gasp!) goyim.
The Canadians (read: “goyim”) are being sued because they didn’t play Nazi stormtrooper to the Hassidic community.
The Canadians (read: “goyim”) are being sued for being tolerant, respectful, sensitive and multicultural.
You can’t win for losing with these folks. They’ll guilt-trip you and get money from you no matter what you do. Snatch the kids? You are an anti-semite! Leave the kids with mom and dad? You are a child abuser!
So here is my question. Rather than displacing their psychological ethnic and family issues on us and dragging us into it, and making us pay for mommy’s and daddy’s educational choices, why don’t they take it up with their own mommy and daddy and tribe and leave us out of it?
More fundamentally, why are they still here? Didn’t the Tsar fall 100 years ago? Didn’t WWII end 70 years ago? Hasn’t Israel, their national homeland, been around for 65 years now?
What’s disconcerting isn’t so much that blacks are criminals out of proportion to their numbers – it’s that law-abiding blacks reflexively defend black criminals, not just verbally, but by demanding more lenient sentences.
Well, the one's with the megaphone do talk this way.
There's so much performance and pride-driven artifice in these discussions, it's hard to know what a lot of people actually think (and they may have multiple contradictory opinions at the same time, as people often do).Replies: @Anon
I made the same point, more or less, upthread, but you produced a slogan: “Integration killed Michael Brown.” That’s a good one — let’s run with it!
Whoops — my comment was in another thread, but I still love your slogan.
I've since surmised that Unz does this by design so that comments are not permanently indexed by Google. Instead, posts (and up to 200 comments, iirc) are migrated to a 'comments' directory that is apparently excluded from search engine indexing.
So, for example, to view comments for:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
go instead to:
https://www.unz.com/comments/isteve/ferguson-is-a-story-of-the-section-8-era/
Note that the comments are in reverse chronological order.Replies: @Loyal Reader, @SFG
To protect the commenters? Unz always was a clever fellow, to say the least…
Was that citizen black making the video of Wilson black? The guy wound up being arrested and it was because of something about his dog. Pit bulls seem to be a big problem in low income areas.
I saw Giuliani on Meet the Press and he actually made a much stronger point and THAT point was the reason he gave for so many white cops in black neighborhoods: In NYC, 70-75% of crime is in black areas. So, the Washington Post is being even more disingenuous.
There was a horrible crime last Christmas here in NJ where 4 black men carjacked a man at a shopping mall and killed the poor guy. News reports said that 90% of carjackings in New Jersey were committed by blacks. These are devastating statistics and they are the reason we have so much de facto segregation and white flight.
Yesterday, Giuliani followed up with another statistic: His administration lowered the homicides by 65% by lowering the homicides in the black community. He said there were virtually no homicides in the white community.
No. Derelict vehicles in his front yard was the reason for the police call (which violates municipal ordinances where I grew up as well). By Wilson's account, the resident was contumacious, so was arrested.
"Because Science!"
"Because Ted Conference!"
"You just got that off of Fox News, right?"
"Correlation does not imply..."
" ... and anyway 85% of differences... "
"... socially constructed... "
"It's complicated (If you allow me to save face now, I may just not destroy your social standing and career through social media at some point in the future of my choosing)."Replies: @Anonymous, @Whiskey
That’s Rick Steves. I thought he was gay. Shicked when his wife and two kids showed up on an episode. Had that apologise for being a White guy voice and manner.
Remembered the Amalfi Coast episode.
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119
A big pack of rich preps at a good school taking turns brutalizing a young woman? And she doesn't report if for a couple of years? Almost a dozen witnesses and nobody says anything about it in all that time? The whole thing has the whiff of the Duke Lacrosse fantasia about it.Replies: @ben tillman
The story is all wrong. Women do get raped in fraternity houses, and I’ve heard stories from victims, and perpetrators, and female (!) onlookers. That’s not how it would work even at a second-tier fraternity like Phi Psi. Girls are raped when they’re drunk enough that there’s no need for violence beyond the penetration itself.
So yes, it happens. But it will only stop when people stop getting drunk and wasted in the wrong places and parties.
While I've been young, I've never lived in a university. But after reading I, Charlotte Simmons, by Tom Wolfe, I saw myself and my peers (wherever they hung out) so accurately, and rather drearily, portrayed that I got it. Got why these apparent idiots do what they do. And I wouldn't say IQ or major has much to do with it once they are in the environment.
Follow my link to my Taki’s article and then you can follow the link to the fed report that has those stranger v. acquaintance breakouts.
(Who woulda thunk there'd come a day when quoting a Black president's own crime stats was controversially racist?)Replies: @CJ
Was Rudy always this ballsy? Or is this a sign his political ambitions are extinguished?
IMO he’s been remarkably straight on for a long time. He enjoys a good debate, and had his own radio call-in show while he was mayor. Here is my all-time favorite Rudy rant, one that makes me forgive all his negatives:
Rudy Giuliani’s Ferret Rant
Yes, but that report classifies Hispanics as white in the perpetrator class, but Hispanic in the victim class. .
So that distorts the numbers to show that whites are more violent than they really are.
Leading cause of death among blacks:
abortion
Not a natural cause.
What happens to the black-on-black homicide statistic if a gang member is shot by a rivaling gang member, but the perp can’t be found. So it’s not not 100 percent clear that the perp is black, but most likely. Will it make it’s way into the statistic based on likelihood or something, or will it vanish from the statistics?
They’re right that the topic is complex, but I don’t think the left is going to be any happier if they get everyone to dig more deeply into black/white crime statistics, because the overall picture is very bad: blacks have a much higher crime rate than whites, blacks victimize whites more often than whites victimize blacks, overwhelmingly black neighborhoods tend to have really high crime rates, etc.
The main problem the left has on this issue is that the cases that stir up the media outrage and get big protests going are sort-of random, and so they often turn out to be pretty ambiguous. This leaves the media that want to have a teaching moment on race in a bad position, because if they honestly report the news, the narrative ends up kind-of shaky. I mean, it’s quite plausible to me that the cop should have found some other way to deal with Brown besides shooting him, but there’s no way to spin this as some kind of racist cop going out looking for innocent black choir boys to kill–Brown attacked the cop, after robbing a convenience store. So instead of the narrative they want–innocent black kid on his way home from choir practice got lynched by a racist white cop–they get some messy story where maybe the cop was too eager to shoot someone who was attacking him, with a backdrop of some racial tension in the community because of white flight and changing demographics that hadn’t yet caught up with the police force.
There are genuine issues the left (and libertarians) care about, that deserve some consideration, and that are brought up by this whole case–lack of independent oversight of the police, police being trained in ways that lead to more shootings than are necessary, messed up municipal finance that leads to funding your local government on traffic tickets and court fees, way too many black kids getting shot[1]. But I don’t think this case is nearly as illuminating on those issues as (say) the protesters would like it to be. Like Martin/Zimmerman, this isn’t a simple good guys/bad guys story, but that’s the kind the media would really like to tell.
[1] Though it’s mostly other black kid shooting them, which also makes the whole racism narrative a lot more messy. Maybe you can spin out a story of structural racism and the legacy of Jim Crow that explains why black kids shoot each other so often, but it seems like it’s a bit of a stretch.
The BJS homicide report discusses this. They have a formula for imputing the likely race of unknown murderers, based on the statistics for the cases with known murderers. You can imagine ways that might go wrong, but I imagine the people doing this broadly knew what they were doing and did the best job they could with the available data.
I don’t know anything about the UVA case, but your description sure fits the stories I’ve always heard. My impression is that most rape at college is either the kind where the woman gets too drunk to say no (and some of those are ambiguous, as both the man and woman can be pretty drunk and not using their best judgment) or date rape (where the perp figures he can get away with it because if she accuses him, it will be his word against hers).
I saw Giuliani on Meet the Press and he actually made a much stronger point and THAT point was the reason he gave for so many white cops in black neighborhoods: In NYC, 70-75% of crime is in black areas. So, the Washington Post is being even more disingenuous.
There was a horrible crime last Christmas here in NJ where 4 black men carjacked a man at a shopping mall and killed the poor guy. News reports said that 90% of carjackings in New Jersey were committed by blacks. These are devastating statistics and they are the reason we have so much de facto segregation and white flight.
Yesterday, Giuliani followed up with another statistic: His administration lowered the homicides by 65% by lowering the homicides in the black community. He said there were virtually no homicides in the white community.Replies: @Art Deco
The guy wound up being arrested and it was because of something about his dog.
No. Derelict vehicles in his front yard was the reason for the police call (which violates municipal ordinances where I grew up as well). By Wilson’s account, the resident was contumacious, so was arrested.
it’s that law-abiding blacks reflexively defend black criminals, not just verbally, but by demanding more lenient sentences.
Well, the one’s with the megaphone do talk this way.
There’s so much performance and pride-driven artifice in these discussions, it’s hard to know what a lot of people actually think (and they may have multiple contradictory opinions at the same time, as people often do).
The utter lack of any real black separatist movement in this country tells the real story. Blacks don’t want to be free of white oppression; they want more of what whites produce, and see threatening them with violence and guilt-tripping them as the way to get it.
Are you aware of any separatist movement in the world today among a subpopulation without a territory they dominate demographically?
While we’re at it, this whole dispute in Ferguson has almost nothing to do with the world’s worldly goods, but with the distribution of recognition and deference and people’s self-concept.
All these are perfectly reasonable things to be upset about. I'm pretty unhappy about all of them, and I'm a middle class white guy living thousands of miles from Ferguson. I think one problem faced by the people raising them is that most of those problems don't fit into any of the easy narratives that the media and the two big parties are interested in pushing, and aren't a great fit for any of the currently-fashionable ideologies. Any serious attempt to get to the bottom of any of them is going to upset some powerful people with access to megaphones, and is going to be uncomfortable to discuss.
The media, in particular, wants clean, easy narratives. They want an unchallenging good guy/bad guy story, where everyone pretty much agrees on who is the good guy and who is the bad guy, They want to teach a moral lesson, but only one that's universally acceptable and easy to explain. But the real problems we have mostly don't work like that.
For example, it may very well be that the cops shoot too many people, especially too many black kids. But the cause just isn't going to be all the secret Klansman cops going out to murder black choir boys. That would be a fun story to tell, and if it were true, we'd surely want to get all those secret Klansmen off the force before they killed any more innocent kids. But it's not true. Instead, the problem is probably going to have to do with how police are trained, or what kind of civilian oversight is done on the police. And unraveling it will require honestly recognizing that black teenaged boys are involved in crime way, way too often, and that police respond to blacks as they do largely because of applied statistics and the way overwhelmingly black neighborhoods tend to be really unsafe places with a lot of crime and gangs.
You’re right – the whole UVA allegation is very man-bites-dog. Right down to her claim that she crashed through a glass coffee table… and THEN got raped by seven guys. And that her friends came to her aid at 3am – she’s bleeding and beaten and raped… and they don’t take her to a hospital or to the cops. Just tell her to hush because their reputations in the Greek system would take a hit for reporting a gang rape. I don’t see any of that happening in a million years.
Can you imagine the seventh guy? He’s a member of the most popular frat on the UVA campus, he’s certainly got SATs up over 1200 (or 1800 under the new grading system) and he just can’t wait to get in there and rape a bleeding, broken, crying woman in front of his friends. He waits around watching an unspeakable crime for two hours for his turn to commit this atrocity. Right.
Are you aware of any separatist movement in the world today among a subpopulation without a territory they dominate demographically?
While we're at it, this whole dispute in Ferguson has almost nothing to do with the world's worldly goods, but with the distribution of recognition and deference and people's self-concept.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @NOTA
I remember reading an article in the newspaper about 1969 about a black separatist group asking for 5 or 6 southern states as a black homeland. But not much since…
Surely, the black homeland is in Africa … At least Lincoln thought so.
http://www.richardbradley.net/shotsinthedark/2014/11/24/is-the-rolling-stone-story-true/
IMO he's been remarkably straight on for a long time. He enjoys a good debate, and had his own radio call-in show while he was mayor. Here is my all-time favorite Rudy rant, one that makes me forgive all his negatives:
Rudy Giuliani's Ferret RantReplies: @Reg Cæsar
So Giuliani feels about those who keep and bear weasels what Obama feels about those who “cling to” guns. And you like him for this? What the ferret…?
Of all the twisted, angry, diseased protest movements that plague our society, animal rightsers are some of the worst. They may well have been victims of real abuse as children -- probably more so than other groups like drug addicts or prostitutes who are widely believed to be abuse victims. Rudy refuses to listen to their nonsense and tells them they are sick, that "something has gone wrong" in their developmeny as human beings. He shows the same kind of integrity talking to the ferret freak as he does when rebutting Dyson.
BTW Rudy is not just a guy with serious accomplishments reducing black and Latin street crime, he's a guy with serious accomplishments reducing Mafia-related organized crime -- and he's an Italian-American.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar
To paraphrase a certain singing Hoosier, “I fight reality, reality always wins…”
Are you aware of any separatist movement in the world today among a subpopulation without a territory they dominate demographically?
While we're at it, this whole dispute in Ferguson has almost nothing to do with the world's worldly goods, but with the distribution of recognition and deference and people's self-concept.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @NOTA
I’d say the Ferguson story has a lot more to do with the large fraction of black kids who get shot, and blacks being on the receiving end of a lot of unwanted and unpleasant police attention, and the sense that a lot of black residents of Ferguson and surrounding areas have that the police have it in for them. Lack of meaningful police oversight is probably in there somewhere too, as is the nastiness of funding local governments on fines and court fees.
All these are perfectly reasonable things to be upset about. I’m pretty unhappy about all of them, and I’m a middle class white guy living thousands of miles from Ferguson. I think one problem faced by the people raising them is that most of those problems don’t fit into any of the easy narratives that the media and the two big parties are interested in pushing, and aren’t a great fit for any of the currently-fashionable ideologies. Any serious attempt to get to the bottom of any of them is going to upset some powerful people with access to megaphones, and is going to be uncomfortable to discuss.
The media, in particular, wants clean, easy narratives. They want an unchallenging good guy/bad guy story, where everyone pretty much agrees on who is the good guy and who is the bad guy, They want to teach a moral lesson, but only one that’s universally acceptable and easy to explain. But the real problems we have mostly don’t work like that.
For example, it may very well be that the cops shoot too many people, especially too many black kids. But the cause just isn’t going to be all the secret Klansman cops going out to murder black choir boys. That would be a fun story to tell, and if it were true, we’d surely want to get all those secret Klansmen off the force before they killed any more innocent kids. But it’s not true. Instead, the problem is probably going to have to do with how police are trained, or what kind of civilian oversight is done on the police. And unraveling it will require honestly recognizing that black teenaged boys are involved in crime way, way too often, and that police respond to blacks as they do largely because of applied statistics and the way overwhelmingly black neighborhoods tend to be really unsafe places with a lot of crime and gangs.
Well, the one's with the megaphone do talk this way.
There's so much performance and pride-driven artifice in these discussions, it's hard to know what a lot of people actually think (and they may have multiple contradictory opinions at the same time, as people often do).Replies: @Anon
Are blacks more likely to engage in doublethink? Is this a consequence of being, on average, less able to think logically? Or is it more a genetic inclination towards deceitfulness (which might have historically been useful in an evolutionary sense)?
So Giuliani feels about those who keep and bear weasels what Obama feels about those who “cling to” guns. And you like him for this? What the ferret…?
Of all the twisted, angry, diseased protest movements that plague our society, animal rightsers are some of the worst. They may well have been victims of real abuse as children — probably more so than other groups like drug addicts or prostitutes who are widely believed to be abuse victims. Rudy refuses to listen to their nonsense and tells them they are sick, that “something has gone wrong” in their developmeny as human beings. He shows the same kind of integrity talking to the ferret freak as he does when rebutting Dyson.
BTW Rudy is not just a guy with serious accomplishments reducing black and Latin street crime, he’s a guy with serious accomplishments reducing Mafia-related organized crime — and he’s an Italian-American.
Of all the twisted, angry, diseased protest movements that plague our society, animal rightsers are some of the worst. They may well have been victims of real abuse as children -- probably more so than other groups like drug addicts or prostitutes who are widely believed to be abuse victims. Rudy refuses to listen to their nonsense and tells them they are sick, that "something has gone wrong" in their developmeny as human beings. He shows the same kind of integrity talking to the ferret freak as he does when rebutting Dyson.
BTW Rudy is not just a guy with serious accomplishments reducing black and Latin street crime, he's a guy with serious accomplishments reducing Mafia-related organized crime -- and he's an Italian-American.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar
And, back in the Gordon Gekko era, Rudy arrested some Wall Streeters, too. It didn’t seem all that amazing back then, but it sure hasn’t happened much lately.
Of all the twisted, angry, diseased protest movements that plague our society, animal rightsers are some of the worst. They may well have been victims of real abuse as children -- probably more so than other groups like drug addicts or prostitutes who are widely believed to be abuse victims. Rudy refuses to listen to their nonsense and tells them they are sick, that "something has gone wrong" in their developmeny as human beings. He shows the same kind of integrity talking to the ferret freak as he does when rebutting Dyson.
BTW Rudy is not just a guy with serious accomplishments reducing black and Latin street crime, he's a guy with serious accomplishments reducing Mafia-related organized crime -- and he's an Italian-American.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar
I don’t know what the ferret guy stood for, because Rudy told him to shut up. I just assumed he opposed the law NYC has, or had, prohibiting the keeping of ferrets in the city. Does Syracuse or Biloxi or Laramie have such a law?
Sounds rather puritanical to me. What’s with Guiliani’s nanny-statism? Why attack DeBlasio for his first and only correct move?
How is a guy who wants to keep a common American housepet an “animal rightser”? The PETAphiles would rather see them released.
Should’t that be, Hey, Look, a Ferret?
“[1] Though it’s mostly other black kid shooting them, which also makes the whole racism narrative a lot more messy. Maybe you can spin out a story of structural racism and the legacy of Jim Crow that explains why black kids shoot each other so often, but it seems like it’s a bit of a stretch.”
If the legacy of Jim Crow is responsible for out of control crime in the Black community today, than crime in the Japanese American community should be though the roof as well because of the legacy of Japanese internment camps on U.S soil, but it’s not. Japanese Americans commit even less crime than Whites per capita, despite being harshly discriminated by Whites in the past.
During Jim Crow, did Bull Connor and J. Edgar Hoover perform government experiments on Black males and inject them with with a drug that caused them to become a lot more violent and commit more crimes ?
“And, back in the Gordon Gekko era, Rudy arrested some Wall Streeters, too. It didn’t seem all that amazing back then, but it sure hasn’t happened much lately.”
Rudy Giuliani also took down some of New York City’s Five Families for murder and racketeering, yet that still did not stop some in the left wing media from spreading false rumors that he himself has direct ties to Cosa Nostra/This Thing Of Ours. Why would he arrest his own people if he was part of that world ? It makes no sense whatsoever. If he was part of that world, he would have been considered the biggest rat in the history of the Italian Mafia.
“Giuliani is wrong. Most blacks die of natural causes.”
Violence is part of their nature.
This should not be dismissed out of hand. Separate but equal has never been given a fair shot at success.
I’ve heard stories too, from witnesses. My colleague, a black girl btw, was actually one of the girls who heard about what was about to transpire because her irresponsible friend (white) was too drop dead drunk to take care of herself. 3 other girls, undrunk, went in the room and took the drunk one away before anyone could get down to business. This was a southern university, and I don’t know the race of the guys (jocks mostly) but I think they were white mostly.
So yes, it happens. But it will only stop when people stop getting drunk and wasted in the wrong places and parties.
While I’ve been young, I’ve never lived in a university. But after reading I, Charlotte Simmons, by Tom Wolfe, I saw myself and my peers (wherever they hung out) so accurately, and rather drearily, portrayed that I got it. Got why these apparent idiots do what they do. And I wouldn’t say IQ or major has much to do with it once they are in the environment.
NOTA – I’d say the Ferguson story has a lot more to do with the large fraction of black kids who get shot
There is no “large fraction of black kids” getting shot, by anyone. And most black kids who do get shot get shot by other black kids, so the fraction of black kids getting shot by police is absolutely miniscule. If you’re a black kid you’re more likely to pick the winning lottery numbers than to get shot by the police.
and blacks being on the receiving end of a lot of unwanted and unpleasant police attention, and the sense that a lot of black residents of Ferguson and surrounding areas have that the police have it in for them.
The police are damned if they do and damned if they don’t in the eyes of most blacks and of white liberals like you. If they ignore all the crime in black neighborhoods, the victims of which are black, they’re being racist. But if they try to do anything about all the crime in black neighborhoods they must, of necessity, give “a lot of unwanted and unpleasant police attention” to young black men. And that’s also described as racist.
What percentage of Asian victims are killed by Asian perps, that is the real question the author should be asking.
It’s almost certainly the case, from the POV of many. Cop procedure and behavior is designed to err on the side of dead thugs, not dead cops. But reality doesn’t work like instant replay, where armchair quarterbacks get to analyze every detail frame by frame.
Meddling with the way cops have this set up is likely to drive even more of the good ones into other fields.
Mental illness aside, how hard is it to just not berate or assault the cops?
Ultimately, this is all down to forced “integration.” Let people decide the composition of their own neighborhoods, communities, and municipalities, and whites will be free to let blacks police themselves. No more oppressive YT cops in their faces. Problem solved.
The Blood is on Rudolph Giuliani Hands, not Mayor De Blasio’s
The blood that’s been spilled belongs to you Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and no one else! It is you that built your career on Racial Resentment. Because of you Rudy, 343 fire-fighters died, hundreds of First Responders are now sick with cancer, the minority communities have risen in protest, and two more victims: Police Officer Ramos and Liu are added to your body count. When will you SHUT UP!
The legal definition of “Cause in Effect:”Cause-in-Effect is determined by the “but for” test: But for this or that action, the result would not have happened.Therefore, the evidence against Rudolph Giuliani goes as followed:
September 16th, 1992. Police Unions, along with Rudolph Giulian led a mob of 10,000 Police Officers to the steps of City Hall in a drunken riot against Mayor David Dinkins. Police Officers, of which Rudy and others claim is not racist, referred to the first African-American Mayor of New York City as a ******, etc. In 1994, Rudy became the 107th Mayor of New York City. Rudy immediately rewarded the 10,000 racist police officers that followed him and showed contempt to the highest ranking Black man in NYC by turning them loose on minorities with total immunity for past and future crimes.
In fact, Rudy introduced New York City to “Quality of Life Crimes.” For People of color, the “New Jim Crow Era” began: Racial Profiling, Stop and Frisk, the School to Prison Pipeline and a return to slavery in the overcrowded Prison Industrial Complex System.
The 13th Amendment Clause became a work permit for men of color.”Arrests are up and crime is down” was Rudy’s motto. However, no one ever asked Rudy, if no crimes are being committed, why are so many minorities being arrested?
Rudy declared a “War on Crime.” Moreover, as in all wars, there must be an enemy, the minorities in New York City were chosen. In the midst of this war; Men of color have been beaten, molested (Abner Luima), falsely imprisoned (Central Park 5), murdered, etc. A greater divide was created between Police and communities of color.
Mike came next with his Willie Lynch mentality, Destroy the mind and keep the body. As Mayor, Mike closed over 100 schools and ended after school programs that kept minority children off the streets. He too said “Arrests are up and crime is down” but failed to elaborate.
In fact, Mike, the Chief Administrator of New York City states: “forgo college and go to trade school.” It is precular that all city jobs Mike administered required college credits. Humm!
For the past 24 years, minorities in New York City have lived in a police state. We have seen 41 bullets, 51 bullets, and had a plunger forced up our rectum. Shot twice in the back by a fellow Police Officer,Officer Desmond Robinson can testify that the color of a Blackman’s skin makes him a target, even if he is wearing the blue uniform and NYPD shield upon his chest:
Our schools and hospitals are closing while our homes are being taken via foreclosures. We are offered jobs that force us into voluntary servitude. Do you now understand our rage? Rudy and Mike’s answer was not to eliminate the social and economic desparaties, but to militarize the police force and criminalize the victims.
We are told cameras are the answer. Ironically, did we not all watch the video of Eric Garner’s execution. The choke-hold was legal? How about the kneeling on Mr. Garner’s head and back as Mr. Garner pleaded, ” I can’t breathe,” was that also legal? How will video cameras help if Justice remain blind?
Finally, to add insult to injury, Rudy points the finger at Black People inflicting their own pains. (“White police officers wouldn’t be there if you weren’t killing each other.”) Yes! That is Rudy’s words verbatim.
Rudy, 93% of all crimes committed against blacks are by Blacks, just as 90% of all crimes committed against Whites are done by Whites: that usually happen in communities of the same race. Furthermore, if you pick any undeserved community in any city, any state, or any nation, you will find drugs, gangs, guns and violence. Rudy, this is not a Black issue, it is a human rights issue. All lives Matter and we (regardless of our brown skin) are entitled to all privileges and protections under the Red White and Blue.
Have you not noticed as we march and arms are locked: Black, White, Chinese, Indian, Jewish, and every other denomination of man from infant to elderly are saying no more.
In past days, the nation has come forward to mourn two police officers that were assassinated. I too, am on bended knees. However, I prefer to mourn the men that wore the blue uniforms: Mr. Ramos and Mr. Liu. Their names are rarely mentioned by the media or their Unions. Are we mourning the fallen or the uniforms of the fallen?
Mr. Rafael Ramos has two sons, ages 17 and 13 that are not police officers. His children (minorities) are subject to the same “Racial Profiling, Stop and Frisk, and hopefully, not becoming a Michael Brown or Eric Garner.
As the media showed the Ramos family greeting Mayor De Blasio, I realized one family member wore a hoody and could easily be another Trayvon Martin: As another cousin spoke, I saw Sean Bell. As many honor the blue uniform, let us honor the men that wore the uniforms and continue the fight for their families and ours.
I will continue fighting the injustices committed upon minorities: And yes, also included in this fight are the lives of Mr. Liu and Ramos families that are in fact, minorities!
Mayor De Blasio stated, “it could happen to my son Donte.” This statement brought outrage from opponents as if it could never happen. Rudy, I will make a wager that you never envisioned Dredd Locks, a flower child and an Afro living in Gracey Mansion. Anything can happen. The policing policies must change.
I believe there should be a greater outrage for PBA President Lynch that disinvited Mayor De Blasio from Police Officer funerals a week before the assassination. Is he clarvoient? Did he predict the murder or cause the murder? Moreover, Mr. Lynch echoed for the Police the same statement Mayor De Blasio had concerning his son’s safety.
Maybe we should look into the Pro Police rally that occurred on the day of the assassinations? Our protest were against Policing Policies, you made it about police. There is plenty of blame to be had.
Mayor De Blasio, I praise you in your handling of this very difficult time: it is “solely” because of you that New York City is not on fire and more lives have not been lost. Wrong is wrong, you have acknowledged that.
When Mr. Akai Gurley lost his life in a darkened hallway, you did not criminalize the victim. You admitted a wrong. You echoed what we have known all along that behind the shield are human beings: most good like Mr. Ramos and Liu and a few that are bad. No stores were burnt, no further protest was needed. New York City did not re-enact the Rosewood Massaca of 1923.
No, Mr. Gurley is not forgotten, however, his soul is at peace. Most often when an error is detected, we work to solve the problem. You see our problems Mr. De Blasio, therefore, you give us hope and that is a start. You kept the peace.
I heard Rudy demand you apologize to the police, If I may? I would wait until Rudy apologizes to the 343 firefighters he let die on 911 because their radios did not work, or the hundreds of First Responders suffering a slow painful cancerous death today because Rudy told them the air was safe to breathe.
Let Rudy apologize to Police Officer Desmond Robinson, shot twice in the back for being black by a fellow Police Officer in 1994. Wasn’t that Rudy that held a photo opt at Officer Robinson’s hospital bed stating Officer Robinson, while still in a coma, forgives the officer that shot him: that lie cost us tax payers $3million. Did Rudy apologize?
Mr. De Blasio, you did not create this problem. Giuliani did: The blood is on his hands. However, you are the one person with the greatest chance of fixing the city, do not apologize, mourn as we do for all of Rudy’s victims.
We are not protesting the police. We are protesting the policing policies of Rudy and Mike. We are protesting the New Jim Crow Era. We are fighting to bring justice, not just for Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Rafael Ramos and WenjianLiu, we also march for the sons and daughters of their families and future minority families that may become entwined in the racist policing policies that ignore us, abuse us, inprison us, and take our lives.
Mr. Ramos and Mr. Liu, please rest in peace and know that you have my deepest sympathy. I apologize to your families because I know it is too soon for this reaction. However, I cannot sit by silently as these two good men be exploited for personal gains by Rudy (my opinion). We will work hard for your sons, nephews, grandchildren etc to find them peace here on earth.